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Aug. 29, 2004 - Art Bell

02:51:19

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Dr. Roger Leir - Varginha UFO Case

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	Music From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid
	you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be across
	the known cosmos, and it's 25.
	time zones, that's not Cosmos, that's actually just here.
	I'm honored, privileged, and very much enjoying being here this evening.
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AF.
	Now, I'm going to open the program in a very different way tonight,
	and I'm going to tell you about a mystery.
	Now, this is not your average mystery, and I'm going to have to set it up as best I can
	so you can try and understand what I'm about to tell you.
	As you know, I've mentioned certainly enough times, I'm a ham operator.
	Amateur radio operator.
	And... I've been a ham consecutively on the shortwave band since I was 12 years old.
	12 years old.
	And in all those years, I'm 59 now, I have heard, personally experienced, what I'm about to tell you about twice.
	I have experienced it vicariously through others, I don't know, three or four times.
	But what I'm about to demonstrate to you absolutely turns the laws of physics on its ear.
	It just turns it on its ear.
	Let's discuss a few basics about radio.
	That mode which I'm speaking to you on right now, alright?
	Radio travels at the speed of light, which is 186,000 miles per second.
	That's how fast radio travels.
	186,000 miles per second.
	Alright?
	That's how fast radio travels. 186,000 miles per second.
	Alright, we've got that basic down.
	Now, the way radio, shortwave radio works, or if you're listening to me, for example, right now at a distance on
	one of the big 50,000 watt boomers scattered around the country,
	or countries, I guess I ought to say, the way it works, the way you're able to hear it, 500, 1,000
	miles away, whatever, is as follows.
	It bounces off the ionosphere.
	Radio fires from the tower of the radio station.
	And scatters, and part of it goes to the ionosphere.
	AM radio, shortwave radio, they both have similar characteristics.
	Well, how is this done?
	It might be instructive to sort of give you an idea of how the layers of some of our atmosphere are arrayed.
	Now, as we go up above ground level, above your head, we have 0 to 10 miles up.
	And in the 0 to 10 mile area we have terrestrial weather.
	We have weather systems of varying sorts.
	Now from about 20 miles to about 30 miles altitude we have the much disputed ozone layer.
	20 to 30 miles up.
	Then if we keep going up we get up to about 80 miles and there roughly we have what's called the D layer of the of that substance or that thing that reflects radio signals.
	The D-layer can reflect them sometimes.
	The ionosphere then goes to the next level.
	There is another level, it's called the E-layer, at about a 110 miles up.
	And then from a 175 miles or so up, we have what's called the F-layer.
	Radio signals can bounce off at Varying times and because of various reasons.
	Any one of those layers.
	Now, obviously, if a radio signal bounces off the D-layer and back, it's going to get back very quickly because it's traveling what?
	Only 80 miles or so up and then back down to Earth.
	So that would occur.
	Gee, 80 miles.
	Let's think about that.
	Speed of light, 186,000 miles per second.
	Go up to the D-layer and down.
	Well, you probably couldn't even measure it.
	You could, but it would be, you know, something for the atomic people in Denver or something, in Colorado rather.
	Alright, so now we know what the speed of light is, and we know how radio, whether it be terrestrial radio or shortwave, gets reflected.
	The night time comes, the ionosphere begins to reflect these signals, and voila, you're hearing my voice You know, X number of miles away.
	All right, with all of that in mind, what I'm about to play for you, what I'm about to demonstrate to you, is a phenomena that's impossible.
	What you're about to hear is impossible.
	But it's happening.
	And it's happened now for years.
	And it's sporadic.
	And it's impossible.
	It's just impossible!
	And here's what I'm talking about.
	I'm talking about, well, what's called a long-delayed echo, LDE.
	And there should be no way that a station transmitting a signal would then hear that signal come back to him.
	Well, perhaps there would be the rare occurrence where You know, the station would transmit something, and as soon as he let go of his microphone button, he would hear just a little bit of what he said, because it had gone all the way around the world!
	Now, that's very rare on the frequencies that we're operating on.
	3840, 3.840, 3840 megahertz.
	Very rare for that to happen, but one could imagine it might happen.
	But even if it did happen, and the signal traveled all the way around the world, That would be, oh, I don't know what, roughly 25,000 miles to go around the world.
	At the speed of light, 186,000 miles per second, going around the world is nothing!
	It would engender, perhaps, just a very quick type echo.
	Very quick.
	But what you're about to hear, if you understood everything I just said, Should make the hair on the back of your neck stand up.
	Now if you go to Google, if you Google this, Long Delayed Echoes, if you put in, go to Google and put in Long Delayed Echoes, you will see instances of it occurring.
	Not very frequently, but it does happen.
	It is so impossible that you will see legitimate people writing theories about space probes, You know, plus there's this, it is, the signals sent out are in fact reflected by the ionosphere, and they don't really go through the ionosphere, and even if they did, what would they reflect off of out there, and how would they get back through the ionosphere, which should be reflective on the other side as well.
	So, in other words, knowing all of that, the first thing you're going to hear is I I can't remember.
	It's a four or a seven second echo.
	You're going to have to listen very carefully to the station transmitting.
	Now I want you to listen very carefully to what you're going to hear because this is as strange, as odd, as impossible to explain as anything that ever sailed through the Bermuda Triangle.
	Listen very carefully and you will hear, well you'll hear this guy's transmission coming back to him.
	And that's another thing about long-delayed echoes, as I pause my finger over the button.
	For some reason, they seem to come back to the point of origin, and are not heard very far from that point of origin.
	Listen very carefully.
	This is not possible!
	This is K7BBX, slash AE, Tumwater, Washington, testing.
	This is K7BBX, slash AE, Tumwater, Washington, testing.
	This is K7BBX, Tumwater, Washington, Testing 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
	3, 2, 1.
	5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
	You see, that's not possible, folks.
	That's simply what you're hearing is not possible.
	And one might imagine, okay, well, somebody's kidding around with somebody, right?
	And, you know, it's a big Somebody's out there retransmitting his voice, but that is not the case.
	This occurred to a friend of mine down in Arizona, and it seems to occur for a period of time, you know, a week, a few days, a week, two weeks, and then the phenomena is just gone.
	It's occurred to me twice in my career, and here, listen, here it comes again, only this time, There were some precautions taken to make sure that nobody was, you know, fooling around.
	So listen very carefully.
	Let me try it.
	So if you sat here and you did this, hello TIS, and you went up to 3841 when you did
	that, it would go, and it would be right on frequency when you finished moving your vehicle
	or seven seconds after that.
	Let me try it.
	Hold on.
	You see what I'm saying though, right?
	Yeah, it should follow me up.
	In other words, if I move up the band, and then depress my key, I should hear it kind of sound like Donald Duck, and then it should catch up with me, right?
	Yeah, you should be able to sweep up the dial, you know, not very far, but far enough.
	It should just follow you up there.
	It should be an exact mirror image of what you do.
	Okay, let me try it.
	Hello, testing 1-2-3-4-5-5-4-3-2-1.
	I'm going to do a count.
	Okay, 1, 1,000, 2, 1,000, 3, 1,000, 4, 1,000.
	That followed me up.
	That's mighty weird.
	I'd sure like to witness it.
	So, now just one more example, and this one is way over the top.
	What you're about to hear is a 24-second return.
	I repeat, A 24 second return.
	If you do the math, that's about 3 million miles of travel.
	Impossible.
	This is K7BBX-AE.
	The time is 539.
	Testing.
	is 539. Testing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
	1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
	This is KCM radio. 539. Testing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
	Utterly, absolutely impossible. And I'm not kidding.
	This is KCM radio. 539. Testing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
	This is KCM radio. 539. Testing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
	Utterly, absolutely impossible.
	And what we need, you see, is for somebody to investigate this We need some serious investigation into what this could possibly be.
	On the face of it, the entire thing turns everything we know about physics on its ear.
	So, you know, we many times talk about things on this program that are strange, unusual, and impossible by the standards that we know.
	This absolutely is at the top of the list and we need somebody, I don't know, at the national level, DOD maybe,
	or NASA, or somebody to look into this because it just ain't possible.
	Sound of a rocket launching.
	Well I hope the masses out there understood the impossibility of what you just heard.
	As hams, we understand the impossibility of it and certainly don't begin to understand what's going on.
	I'm telling you, they speculate about probes out there and all the rest.
	How could the signal, for example, come back to the point of origin after traveling God knows where and for how long and not hit other points around the point of origin?
	I mean, it just defies everything we know.
	Anyway, onward to the world news.
	More than 100,000 people, there's a very graphic picture up on Drudge of 100,000 people, marching past a heavily fortified Republican Convention Hall on Sunday.
	You know, years ago you'd have never read a line like that.
	Heavily fortified Republican Convention Hall.
	Denunciations of the administration and the war in Iraq as delegates flocked To the city to nominate President Bush for another four.
	In the White House, Vice President Dick Cheney campaigned his way into the convention about three days ahead of time.
	A powerful car bomb has gone off outside the office of the U.S.
	security contractor in the Afghan capital of Afghanistan.
	It killed at least seven, including two Americans.
	Tropical storm Gaston, is it Gaston, I guess?
	Sloshed ashore in South Carolina Sunday near hurricane force winds, spinning sheets of rain that flooded roads as usual as the storm knocked out power to thousands of people.
	Another hurricane looks like it's aiming at Florida.
	We'll see.
	A California man who once tested, this is incredible, he tested positive for HIV has learned the diagnosis made all of eight years ago Was a big mistake.
	He never had the virus that causes AIDS.
	Jim Malone spent years battling depression and losing weight, expecting to die at any moment.
	He attended support group meetings, accepted free meals from an AIDS charity.
	His doctor acknowledged the error in a letter to the Department of Veterans Affairs Clinic where Malone was treated.
	Can you imagine that?
	You expect to die any time.
	You're losing weight.
	I guess that's the placebo effect in reverse, huh?
	You're told you have AIDS, so you begin to lose weight like crazy.
	The whole thing is crazy.
	I told you about this last night.
	In a dramatic reversal of its previous position, the White House this week conceded that emissions of carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping gases Were, in fact, the only likely explanation for global warming.
	Citing, quote, best possible scientific information, end quote, an administration official, namely James Mahoney, delivered a report to Congress that essentially reversed the previous White House position set out by George Bush, who had refused to link carbon dioxide emissions to climate change.
	My goodness!
	That is quite a reversal.
	Here's an email from Jeremy, who says, I love the show and so forth.
	You know, I want to talk about something.
	The topic is Antarctica.
	More specifically, Lake Vostok.
	I haven't heard anything about it for a while now, but in the late 90s and after the millennium, I remember hearing that there were many strange things showing up at Lake Vostok.
	As I'm sure you're aware, Lake Vostok is an underground lake in Antarctica that is huge.
	Apparently, in addition to several magnetic anomalies, they have also detected a very large metal structure in this lake.
	And they've noticed as well, the water temperature in the area of the object deep below the surface is as warm as 50 to 60 degrees, which should not be.
	Obviously, what I know about this consists of some facts and a lot of rumors, some of which seem to have more inherent veracity than others, but all seem to have something to them.
	When these anomalies were first noticed, it generated a lot of interest in the scientific community.
	Then I heard that NSA and intelligence services were up there, and shortly thereafter I heard stories of Some scientists and civilians being told to stay away and in fact kicked out.
	I also heard there were a couple of women who were cross-country skiing across Antarctica that supposedly had seen something after or before being injured and were threatened not to talk about it and were choppered to a base and then out of the continent.
	I know these days when you hear about Lake Vostok it is about the core samples That supposedly scientists were made to stop experimenting because they were told they might unleash viruses or organisms that have been secluded from our environment for millions of years that just might in some way be harmful.
	All I know is there's something fishy, curious, and unknown about what's going on at the bottom of the world.
	This is an interesting story.
	It's about a winged Now, I wish I had pulled the photograph and put it on the website for you, but the headline is, WINGED CAT FROM HELL PUT TO DEATH IN CENTRAL RUSSIA.
	A winged cat has been killed by villagers near the central Russian city of Kursk.
	The locals apparently drowned the deformed pussycat after it was, well, they believe, frankly, it was a messenger of Satan.
	This comes from Prompta.
	On entering her yard, this young lady saw how a stray cat stood up, and just exactly like a chicken, stretched out two wings.
	She said that at the moment her hair stood straight up on end.
	The locals had no doubt the unlucky cat was a messenger of the devil, and unfortunately they did away with it.
	This is not the first time that I've heard rumors of a cat with wings.
	I wonder about the rest of you.
	At any rate, it was worthy because they actually were holding the wings up.
	You know, they had the cat and they were holding the poor dead cat's wings up.
	You notice how something different is very quickly killed, and so again I say, if they ever did land, You know, the little green guys?
	They'd never get to the bottom of the spaceship stairs.
	They'd be, you know, so full of lead, they'd just collapse about three steps down.
	I'm Art Bell, and I will be right back.
	Want to time travel?
	Go back to past shows on Stringlink.
	Sign up online at coasttocoastam.com.
	Start to burn.
	And the warnings on them beer cans gonna be buried in them landfills.
	No deposit, no sad songs, and no return.
	Yeah, it's only gonna take about a minute or so, till the factories blot the sun out, and you're gonna have to turn your lights on just to see.
	And then the lights are gonna be neon, sayin' fly our jets to paradise, and the whole damn world's gonna be made of styrene.
	So listen well my brothers, when you hear the night wind sigh, and you see the waves
	flying through the great polluted sky, there won't be no country music, there won't be
	no rock and roll, cause when they take away our country, they'll take away our soul.
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 7.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country Sprint Access Number, pressing Option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Those are the numbers everybody.
	in a moment, it's all yours.
	Incidentally, at the top of the hour we're going to have Dr.
	Roger Lear here.
	And Dr. Lear has overseen or removed any number of implants, possibly alien implants, from human beings.
	Some kind of implants.
	In fact, the materials of many of them, when they have been tested, and oh, believe me, they've tested them very carefully, have properties that are very similar to meteorites.
	So, is that whole thing baloney, or is there really something to it?
	Tonight might be a night for you to find out.
	Dr. Roger Lear, who wouldn't spend his time and waste his time otherwise, removes These things from human beings.
	All right, away we go.
	First time caller line, you are on the air.
	Hello.
	Oh, good evening.
	I've been a long time listener.
	My name is Glenn from the Berkshires of Massachusetts.
	It's in your voice all the way, my friend.
	How are you doing?
	Great.
	I'm a truck driver, so I'm on a cell phone, too, if you get a little cracky.
	That's all right.
	What you were talking about, Antarctica.
	Yes.
	The structure there.
	If you get a chance, ask Sylvia Brown and Ed Daines, but my spiritual teacher says there's a civilization under there, and I'd be real curious to see what they have to say about it.
	Well, alright.
	As a matter of fact, that would be just an absolutely wonderful assignment for Ed Daines and or Sylvia, wouldn't it?
	I would love to know what's there, if anything.
	I would love to know if the rumors are true.
	It is a mysterious place.
	The Antarctic, very, very mysterious.
	And so, I don't know how you follow up on this kind of thing.
	I mean, it is so remote that we have to go on the word of those who have been there or who are there.
	Speaking of radio, I have talked to people down there, but I would love to go.
	I have this hankering to go to the Antarctic.
	My wife thinks I'm out of my mind.
	I would love to do it, just to step on the continent.
	And I understand that a lot of people are doing that, by the way.
	Vacationers are going down and doing exactly that.
	Sort of the edge of the continent, anyway.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Arthur, I'd like to discuss space travel, time travel, and the speed of light.
	Hmm, the speed of light.
	Yes.
	According to Warp Speed A Plus, the book, the faster we move through space, The faster we move through time, the faster the speed of light becomes.
	Well, that's a good theory.
	Whoops, Speed A Plus goes into that in depth.
	Well, it may, and it's a book, and it's opinion, but it's not scientific fact.
	Right now, we know the speed of light to be the speed of light, which I talk to you approximately 186,000 miles per second.
	That's what we know it to be.
	And there are people who speculate about exceeding the speed of light, or in some way bending something to apparently exceed the speed of light, but it ain't happened yet.
	So as far as we know, the laws of physics remain the laws of physics, making what I played for you a little while ago utterly impossible.
	Absolutely impossible.
	You heard The impossible.
	There is no way to explain that.
	There are theories and there are books, but that doesn't change the basic physics involved.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi.
	I may not have an explanation for that delay with the radio, but the way you said, you know, how far it's traveled, it's like when you get a thunderstorm And you got a well-grounded antenna, you get that kind of blue orb over it.
	Yes.
	Maybe the, maybe the, when the guy's charging that antenna, it's not really going anywhere.
	It's like a static charge that somehow just kind of hovering right around that antenna.
	And after a set amount of time, it just kind of bleeds back in.
	And that's why that's the only radio that'll pick it up.
	We're talking about two distinctly different things here.
	A thunderstorm and grounded antennas and a plasma ball that is above them and then these long delayed echoes are something else entirely.
	Completely.
	Two interesting but very separate subjects.
	The first is understandable.
	The discharge of the field allowing the bolt not to hit the tower.
	That's understandable at least.
	What I've laid out in front of you tonight In terms of proof, audio recordings.
	And another friend of mine down in Arizona had the same thing going on, and he was kind of going crazy.
	I mean, you know, I can hear this, but nobody else can hear it.
	My own signal coming back to me seconds later.
	He finally set up a video recorder, so we wouldn't know, you know, we would know rather, that he wasn't screwing around.
	And you could see him operating the radio, letting go of the microphone, hearing the return signal.
	So he went so far as to videotape the whole affair.
	No, there's no question about this.
	This is real.
	This is as real as a heart attack, folks.
	And it utterly turns physics on its ear.
	And it demands an explanation.
	Absolutely demands an explanation.
	And yet none are forthcoming.
	Only pretty wild guesses made by otherwise sane people about things like space probes and so forth.
	International Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Oh, hello.
	Hi.
	What is your first name?
	My name is Kerry.
	Okay, Kerry, what's up?
	Actually, I'm curious about the comments that were made about the Lake Vostok in Antarctica.
	Yes.
	I'm just wondering where exactly that is located.
	Is it near the Russian, what used to be called the Vostok Research Station?
	My understanding is it is near the Russian station, yes.
	Because I'm looking at a relatively recent map of Antarctica and Vostok seems to have disappeared.
	I see Sovetskaya and Soyuz, but I don't see Vostok.
	Well, Lake Vostok is most assuredly there.
	Oh, I'm just wondering why they would have changed the name of the station because Vostok was there.
	I have no idea.
	The whole thing down there is pretty mysterious.
	There is something mysterious going on.
	I've had too many different reports from too many different sources.
	Not to understand, there's something going on.
	I used to work for PICO, the polar ice scoring office in Alaska, which is a contract office of the National Science Foundation.
	Yes.
	I was their chief engineer, and we ice scored in Greenland and Antarctica.
	And the way you described a large metallic object down there, it sounds like perhaps it is something that's using the ice cap as a heat sink and creating this lake.
	I don't know.
	I have no idea, sir.
	It certainly is intriguing, isn't it?
	It is indeed.
	All right.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Cheerio.
	Yeah, hi.
	Hi.
	You know the ABC interview that you guys did with Peter Jennings?
	Yes, there's going to be a special, it is my understanding, in February of 2005 on ABC with Peter Jennings.
	I was wondering if you'd like to invite Kevin Costner on as a guest, being that a lot of the stuff he's done is similar to what you talk about on the show.
	And then one last point.
	Believe me, Kevin can come on any time he wants.
	Hear that, Kev?
	Cool.
	Also, the first experiment you did, if I'm not mistaken, it was like the UFO thing over Phoenix happened two weeks later.
	I thought I remember that experiment being to You know, maybe kind of make contact or something?
	That's right.
	Actually, the experiment was to have them show themselves.
	Right.
	Now, there was a couple of weeks, so you could say, well, it was a couple of weeks.
	I don't know if that's close enough to connect it.
	Pretty darn close though, huh?
	Yeah, but also the fact that they postponed Talking about it for 10 months or whatever it was.
	That was so weird.
	That might have been because you actually had a successful experiment.
	It would have been more obvious to a lot more people otherwise.
	Thanks a lot.
	Love your show.
	You're very welcome.
	Thank you.
	Yes, he's quite correct.
	About two weeks prior to the major occurrence in Arizona, we did, and that was back during the time that I was doing these mind experiments, and that was one of the early on ones.
	And so you could either connect it or not.
	I chose, because there was a two-week interval, not to necessarily connect it, but looking back on it, timeline-wise, why, maybe.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi.
	My name's Joe.
	We're in Zanesville, Ohio.
	All right.
	And I'm listening to you on WHAS out of Louisville because we don't have a local outlet here for you.
	A perfect example of how radio signals bounce off the ionosphere and get to people like you.
	Yes.
	Now, we had this happen to us.
	First of all, turn your radio off, please.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	Up, up, up, up.
	I should know better than that.
	I'm going to push the button on that and remove your call because people could track you down having that call.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	I understand.
	No problem.
	And another friend of mine, who's another ham... Anyway, you're a ham operator, right?
	Right.
	Yes, so you've had this happen?
	We had this happen.
	We were on 3805.
	We were waiting for a friend of mine, who is mobile, over in... going to Philadelphia.
	Yes.
	And this was about one o'clock in the morning, no problem, here in February.
	I called him.
	And all of a sudden, I'm hearing very, very weak, down in the noise, exactly what I said.
	Yeah.
	And how many seconds would you estimate later?
	Well, I would say, well, it's hard to tell.
	By the time I let off the key and listened for his response, I would say a couple of seconds.
	And all of a sudden, I'm hearing me!
	Down in the noise!
	Well, you have to remember, the measured delay would be to the very end of whatever you heard.
	Right.
	Right.
	So, that would be many seconds, and that's impossible.
	Well, we just looked at each other and said, huh?
	Ain't no way!
	Did you hear what I heard?
	Yeah.
	And he looked at me and said, Do that again.
	I thought, well, maybe somebody's playing with us here.
	Yeah, that's always everybody's first thought.
	And I thought, wait a minute.
	No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
	And we did this again.
	Right.
	This time it wasn't as clear as the first time.
	Right.
	Doesn't matter.
	The phenomenon, ladies and gentlemen, is real.
	This is not somebody screwing around.
	We've proven that a million different ways.
	The phenomenon is real.
	I'm totally satisfied.
	Intellectually, scientifically, it's a real phenomena.
	It's not somebody screwing around.
	That's not to say nobody's ever messed around with this kind of thing and played jokes, but that issue aside, we know it's real.
	What we don't know is how it can possibly be.
	It is as strange and as inexplicable a phenomena, so inexplicable that, well, maybe our government does know something.
	Maybe they do know what's going on.
	But I don't.
	I mean, that would be a many, many million mile trip.
	So many million miles that it's just, it's not even plausible.
	It breaks all the rules.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Art?
	Yes.
	Oh, hey.
	I've been listening to you since I was in junior high, and I'm not 21 now.
	And I have a question about some kind of implant that I think I may have.
	Really?
	This occurred actually last week and I thought about you recently when I had this problem.
	Why would you think you have an implant?
	Well, I don't anymore.
	That's the problem and I think there's something bad going on.
	I've had this red, there's this red dot type of thing that's been on my lip ever since, I don't know, junior high, high school.
	And I would rub my hand over it, and it would be flush with the rest of my skin, but there was something in there.
	And I knew, but I just never played with it.
	But one night, last week, I was playing with it, and I scratched off the surface, and there was something that was in there, and I could feel it.
	And the next morning, when I was driving to work, I wasn't even thinking about it.
	I was so tired.
	And I put my hand on my lip, and it came out.
	And it was like, um, silicone packing beads.
	It was like this little hard bead that came out, and I thought it was, like, you know, organic, so I tried to smash it.
	Like a packing bead, you say?
	Yeah, like a hard... Didn't your mama tell you not to be chewing on boxes?
	Yeah, well... Okay, anyway, go ahead.
	See, the funny thing about this was, I don't really recall exactly At what point in my life I started noticing it, but I just remember noticing it a lot in high school, and I was like, you know, hey, when did I get that?
	So it comes out, and I didn't think about it, and I'm on my way to work, I'm, you know, rushing, so I just let it go in my truck, and I didn't even think to go back and look at it, because you guys were talking about, you know, what it might be made of, so I'm going to go look for it, I guess.
	But it was so small, and so, now I've never, like, the other day I was thinking about this, I don't recall in my, you know, growing up, at least probably six years old and up, I don't remember having a nosebleed in my entire life.
	You know, I must have had one when I was really young or something, because I don't remember.
	But since last week, since last Thursday, and up until now, I've been having frequent, random nosebleeds.
	Ever since I took whatever that was out, and I'm in the military, so I'm not going to go ask one of my dogs, you know, hey, I pulled this out and I think it might be something alien because they'll think I'm crazy, you know?
	They might.
	They might.
	I was just wondering if you heard anything about like something, some similar case or something like that?
	Nothing like you just said, no.
	I ripped off a piece of my lip with super glue.
	That's about as close as it gets.
	You know, I don't know what to tell you.
	If it's already out, then it's out.
	And I don't know how you're going to relate the nosebleeds to it, but maybe it was something, maybe it was nothing.
	Tonight we will explore the kind of thing he was talking about in much more depth.
	And there have been things removed from human beings.
	What are they?
	I don't think we'll get those answers tonight, but if you want to learn whether they really might be something other than earthly, you're going to want to listen.
	You're on the Air Coast to Coast, Dan, with Arbel.
	Where are you, please?
	Toronto.
	Toronto.
	Welcome.
	Thank you.
	What's up?
	Yeah, a few things.
	There was a, a few years ago, Missing Town.
	I was watching the World News.
	A Missing Town.
	Yeah.
	Is this Arbel?
	Yes.
	Oh wow, okay.
	The delay confused me.
	That's why you're supposed to turn your radio off.
	Yes.
	But I couldn't hear, because the phone's quiet?
	Yes.
	Okay, well, I was watching some news channel called World News, and there's some small town in your country that went missing.
	An entire town.
	I vaguely recall something like that.
	You do?
	Yeah, sure.
	Wow.
	So I was just wondering if...
	I'll let you know that.
	And they had police that closed off the area.
	There was a train station.
	The whole town was gone.
	If I recall correctly, all the people were gone.
	Mysteriously gone, right?
	Yeah, there was a park with children's bicycles laying down on the curb.
	There was a laundromat with clothes full, but no people.
	There was a train station and people walking in from the seats, but no people.
	And, uh, I just thought, you know, if anyone had heard of that, any updates on that.
	Also, years back, he had on a guest, uh, it was a Russian defector.
	Yes.
	Remember that man?
	And, um, it was, uh, he spoke of a, uh, a bill that Bill Clinton, uh, put through to, uh, in case of an, supposedly an accidental nuclear strike that, uh, America would not retaliate immediately.
	Yes.
	And I was just wondering if anybody heard an update on that.
	Yes, it was.
	Thank you.
	No, not really.
	It was our first strike policy turned on its ear, suggesting that we might not strike first.
	Now, hopefully we still have that policy because that is, in my opinion, what creates deterrence.
	If you know what's going to happen to you, you think two or three times before you do it.
	Now, with regard to the long delayed echoes, anybody who has any input, please get it.
	To me.
	I would be artbell at mindspring.com or artbell at aol.com.
	But if you have any answers to the unanswerable so far, I certainly would.
	And so many others would appreciate the input as well.
	And we'll be sure you hear about it.
	We're going to be talking to Dr. Roger Lear about implants coming up in just a moment.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
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	International callers may reach It is indeed.
	Good morning, everybody.
	How are you?
	It is going to get very strange tonight.
	Appropriate, I guess.
	We have a big full moon out there.
	Have you seen it?
	From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	It is indeed. Good morning everybody. How are you? It is going to get very strange tonight.
	Appropriate, I guess, we have a big full moon out there.
	Have you seen it?
	Dr. Roger Lear, author of Aliens and the Scalpel, has been said to have been one of the world's most important leaders
	in physical evidence research involving ufology.
	He and his surgical team have performed nine surgeries on alleged alien implants, abductees.
	This resulted in the removal of ten separate and distinct objects suspected of being alien implants.
	These objects have been scientifically investigated by some of the most prestigious labs in the world.
	Their findings have been baffling, and some comparisons have been made to meteorite samples.
	Dr. Lehrer anticipates performing more surgeries in the future, and will investigate the physiological and biological aspects of the abduction phenomenon.
	He has also formed a non-profit organization for this exact purpose called ANS Research Inc. In a moment, Dr. Roger Lear.
	Dr. Lear is a podiatrist, right Doctor?
	That's correct.
	How does a podiatrist get from doing stuff with feet to taking out possible alien implants?
	Oh, it's simple.
	All you do is stick your head out about a mile and wait for the chopping block to cut it off.
	Now, most of the things I've done, quite seriously, have been through a group of synchronistic events.
	The first one I got into was as a challenge because I was shown an x-ray.
	of the foot that had a couple of objects in it, and they touted this as being an alien implant, and I walked away chuckling.
	I'm sure.
	I mean, people, for one thing, they get a lot of things in their feet.
	I mean, they step on all kinds of things.
	That's it, exactly.
	And, of course, at that time, I'd been in practice about thirty-some-odd years and have removed almost everything from metal to glass to hair to whatever, coral.
	All sorts of things, even once a super secret piece of metal which I had a couple of fellows with suits in the operating room who took it and ran.
	Oh, really?
	No kidding?
	Yeah, I found out in later years it was metal that was being machined for rocket valves.
	Yeah, he stepped on it or something?
	Yeah, yeah, he stepped on it or... No, I think it shot out of a machine and penetrated the shoe, that's what it was.
	Alright, well, however...
	And so it was such a secret medal that they had guys in suits there waiting.
	Yes, they did.
	We hope you get it out, Doc, but we want it.
	If not, we're going to have to kill them.
	And take you, too, probably.
	That's right.
	It was pretty exciting, and of course, I didn't know what it was.
	Were you advised not to speak of what you had just done?
	No.
	They never said a word as long as they got the medal.
	Of course, they wouldn't tell me then what it was.
	How long ago was this?
	Back in the late sixties.
	Weird.
	All right.
	So anyway, somehow you got interested in ufology.
	I mean, you must have, obviously, you became interested in ufology before you got to the, hey, let's cut this open and see what's in there.
	Oh, yes, I did.
	I am, you know, one of the older generations.
	So I remember my father coming into our kitchen and Throwing the newspaper down on the table and reading the headline to my mother, U.S.
	Army Air Force Captures Flying Saucer.
	Oh, Roswell.
	Yes, and then he went on on a long dissertation telling her that, you see, honey, I told you we're not the only living creatures in the vastness of this universe.
	And he was a bit irate when after a day or so he read the headline that said it wasn't a saucer, it was a balloon.
	He was one of these old-fashioned people, Art, that thought, you know, whatever you did, if you were professional and you would be an expert in whatever you do, you know, if it was radio, then you better know everything about radio.
	Sure.
	So, as far as he was concerned, the simplicity of it was, the Army Air Force, that was the end.
	That was the last word, I remember him saying to my mother, a very irritated voice.
	You mean they don't know the difference between a saucer and a balloon?
	So that stuck with me.
	Well, that's kind of like when I had my, you know, that triangle 150 feet above me and then Noah's Air Force Base releases this thing, says it was a C-130.
	It's just, well, it's downright embarrassing.
	Yeah, I mean, they could have even made it worse.
	They could have said it was something like a Kirby vacuum cleaner or something.
	I mean, we've heard it all through the years, Art.
	Okay, well, I guess that could do it for you.
	But still, the level of interest to get to the point where you're cutting people open looking for stuff has got to be a lot of notches beyond Dad talking about Roswell.
	Oh yeah, well the years went by and I went through school and got my professional degree and then I got interested in flying and astronomy and I got a pilot's license and got multi-engine rated and went through the whole thing.
	So I sort of always was interested in aviation and astronomical things.
	Then a friend of mine asked me if I wanted to go to a MUFON meeting, and I said, is that something to do with food, or what exactly is that?
	You know, Mutual UFO Network, and I said, what do they do?
	And he said, well, it's something to do with UFOs.
	So I went, and it was a very interesting presentation, and besides that, they had free cookies that were homemade.
	So the meeting was great, to make a long story short.
	I joined, later became a I'm an investigative reporter for a periodical called The Vortex.
	And in doing so, I would attend various lectures and conferences and critique the individuals that were speaking.
	Speaking my own voice.
	Some liked it and some didn't.
	But anyway, I was at one of these conferences where I was exposed to this x-ray and I just simply said, well, if you think these are alien implants, why don't you take them out and see what they are?
	And I said, well, yeah, I'd like to get this done, but the patient doesn't have any money and she can't afford medical insurance.
	So I said, where does she live?
	And he said, Texas.
	And I said, well, I'll tell you what.
	You get her to California and I'll do the surgery free.
	Where was the alleged UFO or UFO artifact, I guess, or implant, whatever.
	Where was it?
	The first one was in the great toe of the left foot.
	There was two of them, one on each side.
	And the second case, which we did at the same time with a general surgeon colleague of mine, was in the back of the hand.
	The back of the hand.
	All right.
	In either one of these cases, Did you remove anything that you consider anomalous at all?
	Oh, did I?
	To me it was going to be a routine foreign body removal under a local anesthetic.
	A very simple procedure.
	And so we administered all in the way that I've done it many, many, many times before.
	And suddenly I touched something and the patient reacted by ripping her foot out of my hands and up into the air.
	With violent pain, and this was a rather unusual reaction.
	We've used plenty of anesthesia.
	How deep was this object?
	Well, it was deeper than we thought it was, too.
	It was almost adjacent to one of the bones.
	Really?
	Well, by then she'd have probably been not real happy anyway, if you're down that deep.
	No.
	Yeah, so we put in some more anesthetic and that little more problem, but then when we finally got it out, it was, you know, it was, like I said, I've done You know, at that time, probably a thousand or more foreign body extractions.
	This is the weirdest thing I ever saw.
	It was a T-shaped affair, about a sonometer in each direction.
	A sonometer?
	A sonometer is 2.54 sonometers in an inch, so it's about a half an inch.
	Oh, that's a pretty good size.
	Yeah, pretty good size for a big toe, huh?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	And covered with this weird Strange, dark gray, shiny membrane.
	Here's where we're going to spend a little bit of time.
	This membrane you're talking about, it's pretty weird.
	We've talked about it before and I want to lay it out for everybody again, but is it the kind of membrane that you would see growing on any, since you've removed so many other objects from feet before, do they have this kind of membrane?
	Very simple answer and that is absolutely not Not.
	Alright, so this is some kind of anomalous membrane.
	I assume it's been under microscopes, maybe electron microscopes, all kinds of things, right?
	Right.
	We've done a lot of things, but the most peculiar thing about this tissue, you know, here there's two surgeons in a room full of people on a live feed going out to a television set in a waiting room with eyewitnesses and so on.
	Excuse me.
	We take a knife and try a surgical blade and we try and cut this thing open.
	It won't cut.
	It won't cut?
	No, you can't cut through it.
	Surgical blades are pretty sharp.
	You can even whittle a bone, I hope not with one, but you couldn't cut through this thing.
	What could possibly be that hard?
	Well, metal.
	Yeah, it acted like metal, but yet it was organic tissue.
	But you were getting through the membrane?
	No, we weren't getting through it at all.
	Oh, not even through the membrane?
	No.
	No, you couldn't cut through this biological tissue, which was very, very strange.
	So here you've got a patient, you know, with an open wound on the table.
	You can't spend all day fiddling with the thing that you just took out.
	So we essentially closed up the wound, cleaned it out, closed it up, went to the other side of the toe, and then on that side we removed this little... No, wait a minute.
	You did not get the first object out?
	You had to close it?
	No, no.
	We got it out.
	You got it out?
	We got it out, but this covering, we wanted to see what was inside.
	Right.
	And we couldn't cut through it, so we just set it aside.
	Okay, and now you're on to the other side.
	We went on to the other side and took out a little cantaloupe seed shaped affair which was covered with the same weird looking tissue and we tried to cut through that one too.
	We couldn't do that one either.
	Alright, well if I remember high school biology correctly, if a foreign object gets in your body, the white cells Think of it as the enemy, right?
	And it goes through some sort of rejection procedure and the body attacks it in some way.
	Is that right?
	You got it right.
	It's very simple.
	It's either an acute or a chronic inflammatory reaction.
	And the white cells are definitely involved.
	They migrate to the area and they try and remove it.
	And if it's the wrong kind of stuff, they don't remove it, but they'll wall it off in what we call an inclusion cyst.
	Or a foreign body inclusion cyst, which is fibrous tissue, you know, like shrapnel that's been in a wound for a hundred years.
	Okay, but you're convinced that what you encountered that we're talking about could not possibly have been that?
	No, it was not that.
	Okay.
	Do you imagine that that fibrous growth occurred after the object entered the person or Well, we didn't have any fibrous growth at all.
	This was a very smooth, well-organized, shiny sort of tissue that was clinging on to a piece of metal inside.
	And the surrounding tissues, and we've removed some of that too, so we can send it in for some pathology, they were certainly pretty much normal.
	So that was another very unusual finding.
	We didn't find any fibrous tissue and there was none in the past reports either.
	In fact, one of the findings that was so shocking was that there was no inflammatory reaction at all.
	That would imply the body was accepting it for whatever reason.
	Yes, and of course now after I've done a number of these things, and actually we've gone on since you got that We've done 12 cases now and removed 13 objects and submitted them all for very stringent analysis.
	How many of the objects, 13 you say?
	Well we've got 13 objects out of 12 surgeries.
	Do all 13 of them exhibit that same kind of growth?
	One did not because it was a very expensive piece of bottle glass.
	Oh fine, so 12 out of 13.
	Twelve out of thirteen had scientific interest.
	Three of these twelve were different.
	They were little grayish white balls about the size of a BB.
	But they did also, in the surrounding tissue, there was no inflammatory response.
	And then one of these objects we removed was all biological, and like the one in Whitley's ear, would move underneath the skin when you touched it.
	That one, that whole story still stares, you know, it just stands there up in the back of my neck.
	Honest to God it does.
	I mean, when Whitley said the scalpel touched the object and the doctor said the object moved away from him, that freaks, that honestly freaks me out.
	Do you have any idea how one of these objects might have the power or ability to move?
	Uh, only a suspicion.
	The one that we removed from the arm would move in a circle with about a two and a half inch diameter when you touch the skin on the outside.
	Yeah?
	And then, um, if you played around with it and it liked you, and I have all this on video, of course.
	Excuse me?
	Did you say, if it liked you?
	Yeah, it seemed like if it liked your finger, it would follow your finger around like a puppy dog.
	Oh, God!
	Oh my God!
	But you know, when you're talking about you being freaked out, I mean, this is my field.
	That's what I do in surgery.
	And to even watch this video today.
	They followed you around like a puppy dog.
	Do you realize how that sounds?
	I know, it's weird.
	It's weird, weird.
	Yeah, there's some weird things going on in the world, all right.
	I documented one in the first hour, and a lot of things we flat Don't have answers for, and the mainstream community, the science community, the press, they won't talk about these things.
	They just won't talk about them.
	No, and some of the biggest enemies that we have are within the field of ufology itself.
	I try to be different because I try to use organized academic science to either illustrate what we have, prove it or disprove it, Right.
	And, you know, if it's not something unusual, you're going to hear it from me, because I'm going to tell you about it.
	Yeah, you're pretty plain spoken.
	I mean, if it's not a glass you take out, then that's what it is.
	But, you know, are you convinced, Doctor, that some percentage of what you've removed really are alien artifacts?
	Is that what you believe they are?
	Well, I don't like to use the word alien, except for the fact that we could definitely say they are alien to the human body.
	But they certainly represent a technology which is not terrestrial technology.
	And one of the things we found by doing extensive metallurgy is these metals in these things contain non-terrestrial isotopic ratios.
	Now that's a very important statement.
	We're going to cover that in quite a bit of detail, but back up from that for a second.
	You said we're sure they're not terrestrial in origin.
	Are you sure that in some lab somewhere, I mean, God knows the government is doing some pretty weird stuff.
	Witness the two guys you had in your office, right?
	Right.
	So, they're doing even weirder stuff than that.
	So, who's to say that some of what you're running into might not have come from, I don't know, some government secret lab somewhere?
	Well, let's look at the practicality of the situation.
	We all know that you could go to Oak Ridge Labs and you can buy any cockamamie isotope you want to get if you've got the money to pay for it.
	Right.
	So you could get ten non-terrestrial isotopes and pay the tab and it would cost you a few million probably.
	You probably shouldn't have told the audience I haven't heard the rest yet.
	You've got to put them together.
	That's the problem.
	Now the other thing is, because I've been in this a while, and Whitley will attest to this too, because he was responsible for getting me into these places, a couple of these places were black budget laboratories.
	That's what they do.
	They do the secret stuff.
	And here we have a number of guys who are crowded into the room looking at my material with the lab director standing out in the hall wringing his hands.
	Not a happy scene, and they're not happy with me or the scientists that got my material in there.
	And I was able to find things out that the black budget guys don't understand some of the stuff you're looking at.
	All right, hold it right there.
	Well, hey, no doubt.
	But then maybe there's other things they do know about, can't talk about.
	I'm Art Beldis, Coast to Coast AM.
	My guest is Dr. Roger Lear, and we're talking implants.
	Do you have one?
	I don't know.
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	Apparently, sometimes when you ride, you come back with a souvenir.
	And the man who deals in them would be Dr. Roger Lear.
	He's our guest.
	he'll be right back.
	Dr. Lear, this growth, this thing that grows over these implants or whatever
	they are, is it something in your opinion the body produced in reflex to this
	object appearing?
	Is it something that you believe is a living part of the object itself?
	Or, put it another way, is it a living biological entity that you're removing?
	I believe that the coating is a living biological entity, but is not grown in situ in the body.
	I believe that it appears that this metal is encapsulated in this stuff, and then it's evidently put in.
	But, you know, there are many mysteries here, and some of them we haven't even touched yet.
	None of these cases have any scar.
	There's no portal of entry that's visible.
	So, you know, how did they get in there in the first place?
	Really a good question.
	Really a good question.
	There are many facets.
	What we've covered is just, you know, some of the more simplistic portions.
	Alright, well, I want to understand as best I can.
	In analysis, you're telling me they've come up with similarities to The content of meteorites.
	How similar?
	How striking is it in analysis?
	Looking at the SEM, Scanning Electron Microscopy, and looking at the ratio of elements in the object, we find that they are pretty similar to meteorites, except the nickel-iron ratio is wrong.
	So, although they may be similar, they are in some aspects dissimilar.
	Nickel is one prime thing they look for, is it not, in determining the nickel content, in determining if we've got a meteorite on our hands or not?
	Exactly, and there's a certain ratio to nickel to iron that must be to determine if it is definitely a meteorite.
	And it's usually pretty specific across the board.
	Also, I'm looking at isotopic ratios and things, so when things are mined here on Earth, The isotopic ratios are relatively the same, only about two percent, but looking at the stuff that comes from elsewhere, asteroids and what we've brought back from the moon and Martian samples and so on, the isotopic ratios can be extremely different.
	Doctor, is it your view that when you remove these, whatever they are, that their function, whatever it was, stops?
	Yes, one of the things that we find, for example, is the magnetic properties.
	They have a varying magnetic field, depending upon the person and the object, varying from about 3 to 6 milligauss.
	Above normal background?
	Oh, yeah.
	Oh my goodness!
	Now, where is that measured?
	Is that measured while it's still in the person or after you've pulled it out?
	No, it's measured while it's still in the person.
	We use a gauss meter amongst other things.
	We've used a frequency detector and a gauss meter.
	Well, that's incredible.
	Already that's incredible.
	Electromagnetic radiation coming from them.
	How much above background is that and in how many cases Did you detect that kind of radiation?
	Well, in the 12 cases, we've got, I think, eight that have this kind of electromagnetic radiation.
	In two of them, we actually were able to calibrate alternating radio frequencies.
	And don't ask me what they are, because to tell you the truth, I don't remember.
	Oh, my God.
	I mean, this is really important stuff.
	Now, of course I want to ask you what they were.
	Two alternating frequencies of radio transmission of some sort.
	Do you remember even in what range?
	Yeah, they were in the FM band.
	The FM band?
	Yeah, I would remember that it would stay on one frequency for a fixed short amount of time and then Pop up to another one, stay on that one, and then pop back to the first one.
	How were you looking at that, doctor?
	I mean, did somebody have a spectrum analyzer of some sort?
	Yeah, we had a spectrum analyzer and a radio frequency detector, and we took the patient out in an empty field and drew a circle, and then took the instrument and placed one of the members of the team out in the middle of the circle, and we walked 360 degrees, pointing the antenna Horizontally, to see what frequency it would lock on.
	When did you do this?
	When?
	When?
	When, yes.
	The surgery that we did in November of last year was one and then we did... These RF measurements, when?
	Yeah, in November of last year.
	Oh, I would love to have been in on that.
	And I'd love to be... Listen, if you get something to that point again, I'm pretty good in that area.
	I would like to have something to do with it.
	All right.
	The next one we'll do, I'll give you a call.
	Please.
	That's incredible.
	And I do have these frequencies.
	It's just that I don't remember all the numbers.
	Do you remember anything about the mode of the emission?
	I mean, was it just a carrier?
	Was it a modulated signal of some sort?
	Do you remember anything about it?
	No.
	No.
	I have no expertise in the field of radio.
	I was just shocked that there was something coming out.
	I should say.
	And the FM band is a weird place for it.
	Of course, you could have been hearing a... Wow!
	That's...
	Well, you know, I talk to certain radio engineers, and they say that it doesn't necessarily mean that you're really getting an emanation from that particular object in the body, because they're telling me it could be something like a radio relay, where you're getting a signal bounced off of it, and it's looking at the source, but it may not be the source.
	Or it may not even be.
	It could be a spur, for example.
	You may not even be looking at the main frequency, but just a Because you're very nearby a product coming from it, which would appear perhaps on many frequencies, so... Well, I suppose it mentions something that could be a harmonic, too.
	Yep, yep, yep.
	So that's pretty strange, all right.
	The last one, I think, was two and a half to three milligauss on a gaussmeter scale, on which the scale pegs at six milligauss.
	Wow.
	So then we take these things out, we don't get anything.
	And the last object was so highly magnetic.
	The the instruments that we use during surgery, that's, you know, they're made by the surgical manufacturing company to not be dangerous.
	And so they don't easily get magnetized.
	But when we took this thing out and put it into the container, The instrument that I used, the clamp to take it out with, was already magnetized.
	And all I did was took another instrument called Mosquito.
	That would have been a very large magnetic field to achieve that.
	Yeah, and we pick it up and then we put it, transfer it into the final container with the serum solution in it.
	And that instrument becomes magnetized.
	That's pretty magnetic.
	But good Lord, Doctor, if all you're telling me is true, this should be headline material.
	I mean, real headline material.
	Well, I think you're right.
	I get asked this all the time.
	But, you know, what do you read in the newspapers?
	Kerry's war record.
	Yeah, I know.
	I know.
	I haven't finished.
	To really intrigue you, when we do x-ray diffraction, naturally the object contains iron, because of magnetic properties, you would expect that.
	So when we do x-ray diffraction on the iron, we find that the iron is amorphous.
	Meaning?
	Meaning that it has no crystalline form.
	Now, I was able to find out, and I don't mind talking about this to an audience on the radio these days, But we have some secret technology that knows how to make amorphous metals but don't ask me what they use it for.
	But what they're amazed at is how do you make amorphous iron magnetic?
	That's not within our purview.
	What do they use it for?
	I don't know.
	They wouldn't tell me that.
	And they'd have to kill me.
	But you're sure that we really do... Yeah, we know.
	They gave that up.
	We do know how to make it, and they even explained the process, which is highly technical, and I didn't even understand it all.
	So they told it to the right person.
	Just out of curiosity, Doctor, what percentage of the objects that you have removed have come from people Who have claimed abduction?
	Well, that's part of the study.
	They go through a long sort of sifting period before we determine they're going to become a surgical candidate and that's primary.
	They have to have some conscious memory indicating they may have had an abduction.
	We don't want anybody to undergo regressive hypnosis Just because we don't want the criticism to say we put ideas in their heads.
	So they've got to have some pure conscious memory.
	After the surgery is done, if they want to, some people don't want to, if they want to undergo hypnosis, we can provide them with individuals who are qualified to do this.
	Oh, that's very interesting.
	So you will not do hypnosis?
	No hypnotherapy prior to removing the object or interviewing that person prior to removing the object?
	No hypnotherapy allowed just afterwards?
	That's correct, and some of the cases I've done with one of the foremost authorities in this field, Bud Hopkins, and we've done them afterwards, not before.
	Well, what is it generally thought to be with regard to the delineation between those who
	have been abducted and remember it consciously and those who don't?
	I didn't understand the question.
	Well, in other words, how many people are thought to be abducted with no conscious memory
	of it, do you think, versus those who have a conscious memory?
	I would think the ratio would be very high, that there'd be many more who wouldn't have any memory at all of the abduction.
	Oh, you're right, because assuming the phenomena is real, which we can theorize at this point, that this worldwide involves millions of people.
	That was the question?
	Millions?
	Most people go through life, they don't know what happened, they may have indications of having a few quote-unquote strange dreams, but They get adjusted to it and rationalize things around them and go about their business.
	A much, much, much smaller amount are bothered by it and have some kind of conscious memories which may result in phobias and fears and alcoholism and drug addiction and other quirks of compensation.
	And they are definitely bothered by it.
	I would think.
	I guess people are just guessing when they're guessing at how many millions might have been abducted, might have implants right now.
	If you look at the Roper poll, I guess we can get some conservative U.S.
	statistic at about one, between one and two percent of the population.
	I say conservative because the amount of people who answered those questions, you know, what makes the pollster think they're going to answer them?
	and a frank and open mind. So this is probably a very conservative figure.
	And then I feel about 15% maybe of those might have a detectable object in their body.
	Now I get emails still you know I did the first case in 95, it's
	almost 2005 and I still get about 300 emails a week but it's only a small percentage of these
	who are really involved.
	What are you doing these days when you get an email from somebody who says, look, I was abducted, I have something, and I would like to get an operation.
	I mean, you must get some number of those.
	Do you still follow up?
	Sure, we follow up.
	You say you've got something in you, well, send me a CAT scan, an x-ray, or an MRI, and let me see it.
	No x-ray, no negative x-ray, no x-ray, no CAT scan, no MRI.
	Better go elsewhere.
	Let's for a second discuss, because that's all we can do and speculate about what you think these things might be, what might be their purpose.
	What is your best guess?
	Well, that's all it is.
	It's the best guess.
	Understood.
	And, you know, I hear all kinds of things.
	One of the things I've done is an offshoot from this research, and based on part of it on my own family.
	I have a young daughter who's now 13, and watching her grow up in comparison to my older kid.
	She's not the same kid.
	So it got me looking at kids today.
	So I started looking at some statistical comparisons on growth characteristics.
	And I took 17 functional growth characteristics over a 40-year period, 1947 to 1987, and 47 has absolutely nothing to do with Roswell.
	It just happened to be that the books that I was using were printed in 1947, and the next set of statistics wasn't available until 1987, and these are worldwide, and we found I'll give you an example.
	Things like when the child raises their head, when they can climb stairs, when they can stand, when they can talk.
	Simple sentences.
	We found overall those statistics have been accelerated by 16, that's 1 sixth to 80 percent.
	And it doesn't make any difference whether it's in China or Israel or Russia or the U.S.
	or Brazil.
	And speaking of Brazil, there's a lot of stuff.
	Yeah, we're going to get to Brazil, but you're suggesting that we've got a brighter bunch on our hands?
	Not only brighter, but that's only part of it.
	Accelerated.
	Yeah, accelerated.
	I'll give you an example.
	My daughter, for example, when she was about 10 years old, would walk out the front door and we had a tree there.
	That would collect a lot of these tiny little Tweety birds, and she would walk out and they would do their thing and sing and whatever, and I would walk out the door and they would go in a million directions.
	And she would say things like reaching into some pool of universal knowledge and having a plum rolled off her tongue.
	Well, then I began to look at kids in general and talking to parents and having them write me letters and traveling about the world as I have in the last four or five years and talking to parents and grandparents.
	It was not just my daughter.
	It seemed to be pretty much a general rule for kids born within the last 30, 40 years.
	We're showing these characteristics.
	And then looking at the literature, we're reading books about star children, millennium children... Yeah, I was about to bring up star children and indigo and all the rest of it.
	Yeah, just different reasons for describing the same thing.
	Or, Doctor, do you think we're being assimilated?
	Well, I think we're being...
	Manipulated genetically.
	If you look at the abduction program, I mean, you've got to admit that most of the stories are involving ova and sperm.
	So then, perhaps implants are the end part, or the latter part, of the larger genetic experimentation that's going on.
	After all, most of these abduction stories have Significant sexual or reproductive content to them, don't they?
	That's what I like about you, Art.
	You're a thinker.
	So you ask me, you know, what are these things for?
	If that's what's going on, then I believe these are sort of genetic monitoring devices.
	Aye, aye, aye.
	Do we do anything different?
	I mean, what percentage of whales and bears do we have to tag before we find out the information that we want to know?
	You don't have to tag them all.
	And what do we tag them with?
	Little radio transmitters sometimes.
	Exactly.
	And you don't certainly have to abduct every individual all over the planet, because what are they going to do?
	They're going to interbreed.
	And so if you want to change a race of beings, what better way to do it?
	Change a race of beings.
	That's a god-like thing to do, change a race of beings, isn't it?
	Okay, hold on, Doctor, we're at the top of the hour.
	How about you?
	Do you have one of these things in you?
	Have you suspected you do?
	Are they trying to change us?
	Assimilate us?
	Board time, folks.
	Dr. Roger Lear is my guest, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Go back to past shows on Stringlink.
	Sign up online at www.coasttocoastam.com This is a video of the people who are going to be on the
	road.
	Thank you for watching.
	Please subscribe to my channel.
	Thank you for watching.
	the blues and the one night stands and then it's settled down
	There's a quiet little town and forget about everything But you know he'll always keep moving
	You know he's never gonna stop moving He's rolling, he's the Rolling Stones
	When you wake up it's a new morning The sun is shining, it's a beautiful morning
	You You're going to, you're going home
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 7.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	From west of the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	From west of the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
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	pressing Option 5.
	and dialing toll free 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	And if you've listened carefully so far tonight, and you're not thinking and thinking really hard
	about all you've heard, then there's not much hope for you.
	Dr. Roger Lear is here, and what he's told us so far about these implants is incredible.
	I mean, totally over-the-top incredible.
	and we're not done because we're about to tell you what's just happened
	relatively just happened in South America in Brazil the equivalent of our Roswell perhaps
	coming up in a moment alright Dr. Lear we're about to talk about South America
	but just before we do that
	Curtis in San Diego has a pretty good question fast blasting
	He says, can you ask the doctor, please, if they did any DNA testing on the material encapsulating the metal objects?
	No.
	No.
	We'd love to, but I'm I'm a 501c3 nonprofit.
	We operate by donations and grants and the sale of some of the educational materials.
	How expensive is DNA testing?
	It's pretty expensive.
	It's very difficult to get volunteers to come along and volunteer a DNA lab.
	Yeah, I guess it's a lot of money.
	God, it just doesn't... I mean, something of this magnitude, it seems like we ought to find the money somewhere.
	I mean, you and I both know people of money who would probably kick in to get this done.
	Well, if there's anybody out there listening, or we know anybody, just contact me and we'll do it.
	I certainly know the laboratories to get it done.
	Well, what about NIDS?
	Well, I approached NIDS several times on DNA studies and talked to Bob himself and couldn't get him off the dime.
	That's quite remarkable.
	I would imagine Bob to have intense interest in... I mean, that answers part of the question, right?
	Well, you've got to remember that Bob financed a huge and most expensive DNA study that's ever been done on one of my specimens from a non-implant case.
	And it was quite a scientific endeavor.
	Probably the most in-depth study ever done on DNA and anything involved in the UFO field.
	Alright, let's talk about Brazil.
	Relatively, in the relative recent past, 1996, I guess something happened in Brazil and some Americans have sort of heard about it in the periphery.
	It's been discussed a few times on the show by Some different people, but if you could update us all, please.
	What happened?
	Where was it in Brazil?
	And what happened?
	It happened.
	The event that happened is very similar to what happened here or what we believe happened in Roswell in July of 1947.
	And with the crash of evidently some strange craft and Instead of bodies being reported as were with Roswell, there was actual beings that were seen around town.
	Now this occurred, the accepted date is January the 20th, and I'll tell you later why I use that terminology.
	Of 1996?
	Of 1996.
	It gained quite a bit of publicity even a month or so later here in the United States when a front page article Really?
	Stinky aliens?
	the wall street journal and was entitled stinky alien land in brazil
	really right uh... still a little bit of things they think he had
	a little and a brazil where they got that from one of the there were some
	early reports that there were some
	follow-up smells detected but uh...
	later on we we've found that that was not really true
	but anyway this is the city is in uh... far chenier It's a town of about 150,000 population.
	That's Varginha, Brazil?
	Varginha, Brazil.
	It's in the state of Minas Gerais.
	It's a bit north and to the east of São Paulo, about an hour and a half by air.
	Can you give us the version the witnesses gave?
	I mean, obviously a craft either crashed or landed, and then we've got live beings.
	There's got to be a big story there.
	Yeah, big, big story investigated by numerous Brazilian investigators.
	Stan Friedman was down there, but he did not do any investigation on the case.
	He found out about it and looked at some of the data.
	John Mack was there not too long after it happened and interviewed three girls who were eyewitnesses to one of the beings.
	Bob Pratt, who had spent quite a bit of time in Brazil investigating cases, was there also.
	I think Michael Hesselman came there from Germany.
	But most of the investigation was done within the country by some very, very well-qualified Brazilian investigators.
	The lead investigator in the case is a very well-respected attorney in Virginia who has a UFO institute, and he's been investigating in the field for over 36 years.
	His name is Ubirajara Rodriguez.
	Alright.
	So, everything that I'm going to tell you has been witnessed by him.
	To date, there's some... He has filing cabinets along one of the walls in his office.
	He operates, like many attorneys, with a very meticulous methodology and a collection of evidence.
	And the filing cabinets are full of eyewitness testimonies, both civilian and military.
	How many people in all saw one aspect of this or another?
	Well, to date, over 80, and I think that some of the latest statistics I hear now is that maybe up to 120.
	Now, one of the other differences is that we have to realize that Roswell is going on about 60 years, and 1996 to now is only about 8 years, so we have a big difference.
	We should have more witnesses coming forth in the Virginia case.
	What have we gotten involved in this Virginia case in Brazil?
	And actually, if you can describe to me, what did we have?
	We had a crash, just a crippled craft of some kind?
	Did people see it just sort of, you know, wobbling down and then crashing and then begin to see beings?
	And how did they describe them?
	In other words, fill in the blanks.
	Okay, we have eyewitnesses to the actual craft crashing.
	It was a large cigar-shaped craft.
	That apparently had a piece missing out of the rear of it and the eyewitnesses described some smoke or vapor or some kind of trail.
	Now, some say that this flew around for some time before finally impacting with the ground.
	Also, we know that there's enough testimony now that the Brazilian authorities, military, And there's a camp which is very close to the area where this happened in Virginia called Sergeant's Camp, which is essentially a military training base for officers.
	The Brazilian military was notified by NORAD that this object was coming down and given the coordinates.
	They expected it.
	Oh!
	So they were pretty much on the scene.
	Right after the thing impacted with the ground.
	Is there any verification from NORAD that they did that?
	I don't know.
	How would you get into NORAD to even find out?
	I don't know.
	These are what we are able to obtain from the Brazilian military.
	So presumably NORAD calls some aspect of the Brazilian military and says, You know, we see this, it's going to impact in your area, we think it might impact in your area, and get ready or what?
	Yeah, that's about the gist of the story.
	So, people see it coming down.
	one was a local farmer who saw it impact and then he drove his truck around the corner
	after the military arrived which was not that long after it impacted told to get out of
	there and instead of doing that he kind of went around the corner with the truck and
	watched the operation and they brought in flatbed trucks and as you can imagine there
	was a number of military personnel with metal detectors and plastic bags and they went arm
	to arm and combed the field and the crane was brought in to lift the heaviest section
	of the piece which was described as about as big as a Volkswagen bus.
	Oh my goodness and this man saw this First person he saw it with his own eyes.
	He was that close.
	Yes.
	He was eyewitness to all this happening.
	Uh-huh So they got the thing cleaned up and got out of there.
	Well within a very short few hours after this happened Three girls who were coming home from work and taking a shortcut through a field saw something up ahead, and they didn't know what it was.
	They thought perhaps it was an animal.
	Now, you've got to remember, in Brazil, there are things that walk and crawl around.
	Sure.
	It's not like here.
	So, it's not unusual to see some kind of an animal, you know, close to town, and so on.
	In fact, the fire department in Brazil, who was intimately involved with this case, is a branch of the military.
	The fire department is not like the U.S.
	It's like we have the Marines, Navy, and so on.
	The fire department is a military unit.
	And the fire department was also on the scene almost immediately.
	There are some minor discrepancies between the fire department and the military unit.
	It's like what goes on at LAX, where the LAPD is battling with the airport police.
	We're not always in agreement on what they did.
	So, these three girls were coming along, young girls in their teens, walking home from work, and they saw something up ahead they thought was an animal.
	And when they got closer, they were shocked to see that this was not any kind of a creature that they had recognized.
	And the creature was kneeling by a cement block wall.
	I was there.
	I personally went to this area, which is now walled off with a steel fence.
	Oh, no kidding.
	And a door.
	And how was this creature described by the girls?
	The creature was described as being less than about five feet tall, with a large head, no hair, big Red eyes that were upturned, a very brown and oily skin, and a set of what they considered external blood vessels, almost like varicose veins, which coursed the shoulders and up into the neck.
	Wow, what a nice picture.
	Yeah, it was kneeling, and what scared them was that there were three little protuberances on the top of its head.
	Running from front to back, one in the middle and one on each side.
	The first girl let out a scream because she thought she saw the devil.
	I'm with the first girl.
	I'd have screamed.
	And she turned around and ran quickly in the direction of home.
	The second girl stayed, I don't know, I guess you could say sort of in a state of shock and actually looked at the being and the being turned its head around and looked her
	directly in the eyes.
	Then she quickly departed the scene, followed by the third girl.
	And I was able to interview, when I was there, two of these girls and their mother,
	who was later taken by them to the area where the girls reported this,
	and by the time the mother got there, the being was no longer there.
	Well now, of course, I'm interviewing you, and I can get a great sense of you by interviewing you, and I suppose even if it was a translation kind of situation, I'm sure it was, with these young girls, you can still get a sense of the person telling the story.
	What kind of sense did you get from the interview?
	Well, number one, they were telling the truth.
	It was an emotional interview, even though it's been a few years since it happened and the girls are older.
	They were able to tell a very clear story.
	I did something a little bit different, probably, than what John Mack did.
	He interviewed them from a different standpoint than I did.
	I interviewed them, you know, my goal.
	Why did I go there in the first place?
	I've been to Brazil many, many times, and I've been talking at UFO conclaves down there, but always there was some case that I would be involved in, mainly abduction cases with possible physical evidence.
	I really started looking for physical evidence, so I spent an extended length of time in Brazil at that particular time, and I wanted to go to Virginia.
	The more people tried to keep me out, which they did.
	Why and who?
	Well, some of the researchers didn't want me going there for whatever reason.
	There was many rumors that the Brazilian military had frightened everybody to death.
	They didn't want any outsiders into the area.
	I heard stories that the areas of interest were not accessible anymore, that the three girls weren't there, other witnesses wouldn't talk.
	Just all kinds of rumors and stuff, and so I kept insisting, and so it was set up.
	Of course, my quest was to go there to look for physical evidence.
	Physical evidence, sure.
	Sure, and a fresh case.
	Who knows?
	Maybe there's a piece of metal laying around in the field.
	Maybe somebody got one, took it away.
	Of course.
	Maybe there's something to do with abduction.
	Who knows?
	Yeah, I'm with you.
	I love this physical evidence stuff.
	Absolutely love it.
	So that was my reason for going there.
	There's just so much involved in this case, we'd have to do ten shows on it.
	I've recently written a book which is coming out in France in November, and I'm looking for an English publisher, but it details everything.
	My interviews with the girls and my reception there.
	My reception at the plane, I guess I should mention that because it absolutely dumbfounded me.
	There was an entourage of people.
	That were there at the ramp as I was coming off the plane, and I kept looking around.
	I had a friend of mine.
	Who were these people?
	Well, I didn't know who they were.
	I said to this friend of mine, who was my camera operator, you know, I wonder what all these people are doing here.
	Well, they were for me.
	And one of them, the first person to stick out his hand and shake my hand and said something in Portuguese was the mayor.
	So I almost fell over and I was introduced to the mayor's entourage and all these people from Virginia.
	I was treated like some celeb and I'm not used to that sort of thing.
	Well, maybe you were and there are a lot of people who might believe that the mayor's turning out might indicate that their interest is not perhaps so scientific as it is.
	You know, We know of this American town, you know, Roswell, where they do so much business in t-shirts now, and stuff like that, coffee cups, and maybe he wanted, you know, a tourist destination.
	Maybe, you know, I didn't know at that time what was going to happen.
	You know, I was fresh there, fresh off the plane, but as it turned out, I don't know whether he had anything to do with it, but people came forth.
	do it and they've never come forth before and i was fortunate enough to be
	able to interview woman obviously word made it around that you were on
	the way i mean word circulated somehow that you were about to be there
	all undoubtedly and you know unlike rosswell they don't have much uh... for sale
	killer.
	Well, I know, but I'm thinking the mayor was there because he thought, boy, this could be the beginning of something big for my town.
	I don't know, that's just a guess.
	You know, I can't argue with that.
	It's just that as things turned out, whatever it was, it was pretty good, at least for the investigation.
	Alright, well, of course I want to know, I mean, here you've got a A craft that has crashed, you've got creatures at the stage of the story running loose in the countryside or kneeling, whatever they were doing, but live creatures on the ground, so obviously
	This story is going to have some sort of conclusion.
	The usual UFO story conclusion, I suppose, where everything is confiscated by the military and everything disappears and the entire story then becomes unverifiable, except for talking to the witnesses.
	That's the way almost all these stories end.
	Is that how this ends?
	Well, this is going to end a little bit different.
	Oh, well, good.
	Hold on.
	Hold that thought.
	You see, there's a good... This one's going to end a little bit differently.
	Well, all right.
	I'll look forward to that, as will you after the break.
	That's what we call a hook.
	In the night time.
	You're listening to Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm Mark Bell.
	Subscribe to the After Dark newsletter online at www.coasttocoastam.com.
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	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	I hope you're making note of those numbers because you're gonna get a chance to utilize them coming up in this next hour with Dr. Roger Lear.
	And what a night this has been.
	Now, before we hear the end of this story, which apparently is somewhat different than the way most of these kinds of stories end, Apparently, Dr. Lear had a chance to interview Brazilian doctors, the Brazilian doctors who had to do with all of this, and I wonder what they said.
	We'll find out in a moment.
	All right, well definitely the only polite thing to do when you have somebody disclosing information of this magnitude
	is to promote what he has.
	And Dr. Roger Lear.
	has written a book which is called The Aliens and the Scalpel.
	That's a pretty good title, huh?
	The Aliens and the Scalpel.
	And we'll find out in a moment where that book is or is not available these days.
	Also a video and a DVD.
	I think that's new.
	I don't recall that.
	The Scientific Study of Alien Implants.
	Now, if there's a video, that should really be interesting and maybe even a little gory.
	I don't know.
	Anyway, the video and DVD, it's new, right?
	Right.
	When did you come up with that?
	Well, we got an award for it, an EBE award for the best documentary in a UFO field.
	Really?
	At the last meeting of the Congress this year.
	Congratulations!
	Thank you!
	Alright, so, with respect, is your book still available?
	Well, here's the deal, and this is what the listeners will be waiting for in the emails I've been getting lately.
	Finally, the second edition of the Aliens in the Scalpel, new edition, over 500 pages, should be available for consumption next week.
	Next week?
	Next week!
	All right.
	Available through what means?
	Primarily they can get it from me, because we don't have things in place yet.
	And if they would simply make the call, 805-495-2613, and if it's a toll call and they're a coast
	listener, we'll reduce the shipping and handling to $1.
	Okay.
	How much is the book?
	$25.
	$25.
	I can tell you how to even sell more of them.
	Okay.
	Autograph them.
	We'll do it.
	Really?
	Absolutely.
	Well, that makes it very attractive.
	It really, really does.
	All right.
	That number again, folks.
	805-495-2613 in the video.
	The video could be obtained the same way, and it comes in the form of a video and a DVD.
	We have two of them.
	One, as you mentioned, is the scientific study of alien implants, which takes the viewer into the laboratories, and they can actually hear what the scientists have to say.
	And the second one is the Dr. Lear story, which is an in-depth interview on this subject with me by Bill Burns.
	Or is the publisher of UFO Magazine U.S.
	and the co-author of The Day After Roswell.
	Alright, that phone number one last time so I don't have to answer email is 805-495-2613.
	And that phone number, by the way, when can you call that?
	I can call at any time and if they just leave a message, we'll get back to them.
	All right.
	Now, again, back to Brazil, Doctor.
	You apparently had an opportunity to interview some fellow physicians in Brazil.
	Is that correct?
	One physician.
	I was saying physicians before because we had promised this individual total anonymity and secrecy.
	And so I synthetically multiplied the number.
	I see.
	All right.
	One physician.
	The doctor that you interviewed, Let's roll through that interview a little bit, all right?
	Exactly how did it go?
	What did you ask and what did he say?
	Okay, we knew that one of these creatures or beings, for lack of a better word, was taken to two hospitals in Varginha, and that one of the hospitals, which was Hospital Regionale, Uh, one of these beings underwent some treatment.
	Wow!
	Uh, you're telling me this creature was, what, taken to the hospital by the military there?
	The creature was taken to the hospital, uh, by two, uh, military personnel.
	Uh, one actually, uh, held the creature on his lap, uh, and took it to the hospital.
	Really?
	This is another story because that individual died within two weeks after exposure to the creature.
	Cause of death?
	A total secret until probably just recently because there's just been a conference in there and another doctor who treated this individual, I understand, has come forth and is spilling the beans as we talk.
	So I will have that information shortly.
	Suspicions?
	The sister of the deceased military police officer described symptoms that to me were very similar to Ebola infection.
	Oh, my God.
	So, you know, everybody says, why don't they land on the White House lawn and come out and shake hands?
	Yeah.
	Maybe if they did, we wouldn't be around long to talk about it.
	Well, I don't know, Doctor, for a long time I've been very suspicious and uneasy with the majority opinion in you follow in the UFO community that these are warm fuzzy little things I've never felt that and I've always felt very strongly the possibility that no matter how you look at this and I stand back and look at the reproductive experiments and that kind of thing and you know I'm not thinking they're acting in our favor and I'm not so comfortable with the fact that they're warm fuzzy little creatures and I think the UFO community better get over it
	I think that my advice to the UFO community in general is they better wake up and get scientific and drop some of the illusions that have been floating around for years.
	Good luck.
	But who knows?
	But anyway, back to the story because this is so, so important.
	One of these creatures was injured, and that's the one that sat on this poor soul's lap, and he was taken to Hospital Regionale, met there by an additional military contingent who took over a portion of the hospital, the surgical wing, and this is not a big place to begin with.
	And there, the creature underwent some sort of treatment.
	We didn't know until this witness heard I was coming to town.
	And called Uberjar Rodriguez and said that he would be willing to talk to me, not as any kind of a UFO investigator, but as a colleague.
	Yes, yes.
	So a meeting was arranged.
	Nothing was allowed to be taped.
	There was no video, no recording of any kind.
	We met him.
	i took uh... my uh... my traveling companion it was acting as my cameraman
	uh... will be richard and his son who acted as a translator why why
	this provision of no recording equipment this man that was right
	then to death
	yeah this is a for him was a catharsis he had not spoken to anyone in six
	years uh... he was threatened to not only with the loss of a job
	and why didn't uh...
	but uh... he was threatened with a little more serious That would all do it.
	That would do it.
	All right, so obviously no recording equipment.
	He'd been, you know, really apparently had his neck wrung out by the military down there.
	Exactly.
	And when we got there and the meeting took place, a disclaimer was the first thing out of his lips.
	This didn't happen to me.
	These are rumors.
	These are things that I heard about.
	I have no relationship at all, etc., etc.
	If you want to hear this, I'm willing to tell you about it.
	Absolutely.
	We sat down and we started the questions rolling.
	Of course, the information I got was through, like you mentioned earlier, through interpretation.
	When it came to the medical terminology and the medical lingo, we were one to one.
	It didn't make any difference whether he was speaking Portuguese and I was speaking English.
	Yeah, that makes sense.
	We were able to understand, and I got more knowledge out of that than what came from the interpreter's lips.
	Then tell me about that.
	Well, as I said, he started with a disclaimer, but then when he started talking about the events and what happened... Well, that's what I want to know.
	What the events and what did happen.
	Yeah, he was not told what this was.
	It was some emergency.
	There was military in the hospital.
	That wasn't surprising because they had accidents that happened on the base and they took in people, etc.
	So, he was not surprised to see a military contingent to the hospital at all.
	He was taken in, asked to go into the surgical wing of the hospital, and military guards, after he went in, with a couple of colleagues and assistants, were closed off into that area.
	And he inquired as to what was going on, and they told him that it wasn't his business, just to follow directions and do what he was told, to cut the story down so it will fit in.
	We get the important parts.
	He was taken into the operating room.
	There was something lying on the table that he knew was short, covered with a drape sheet, and he thought, oh my, this is something, because it's probably a child.
	Sure.
	There's a serious injury here.
	So the doors were shut.
	They told him, don't come out until he's resolved the medical problem.
	You know, don't ask questions and just do your thing, you know, very matter of fact.
	Do it, you know, make sure the patient's alive and, you know, then he can come out.
	So he was there with the surgical personnel and so on.
	There were some x-rays that were up on the view box.
	He looked at the x-rays and found that there was a compound fracture of the leg.
	And at that point, he went over to the table and started to roll back the drape and was horrified because he looked at it and he thought that this was some kind of terrible, horrible deformity, human deformity.
	But as he began to examine what was laying there, he realized that this was not a human being at all.
	And he described it very similar to what the girl described, a creature that was about almost five feet in length with a large head, a thin neck, brown oily colored skin, no body hair, no facial hair, no mustache, a tiny little nose.
	And he gave it to you in that detail?
	Yeah, in that detail.
	And oh, I'm glad you asked that because at this point his demeanor It began to change and you had to sit there as a witness and watch this to completely understand the emotion now that was filling the room because it was only a short time after this.
	I mean it was easy to realize these weren't rumors.
	He was the guy.
	Yeah, I've got it.
	But in terms of, this wasn't human so, but apparently it had what we would What we would think of as a leg, and it was obvious that there was a bone.
	Yeah, it was a broken leg with the bones taken out through the skin.
	So we know already that the metabolism is fairly similar to that of human beings in some ways, right?
	The construction... Yeah, we went through a lot of detail, which I don't have time to go into at all, but I'll mention a few things.
	I asked him about the blood and the bone.
	You know, what's the blood like?
	Is it blue and jumps around on the floor, or what?
	Yes.
	And he said, no, the blood is very similar to human blood, even with the cellular constituents.
	One large exception was that there's a set of little small white cells called platelets.
	And the platelet reading, he said, was about 10,000 times higher than in human blood.
	Wow.
	And that it clotted almost immediately as it came out of the blood vessel.
	But he didn't know whether this was due to increased platelets or whether the blood was being exposed to an atmosphere that was different than where this thing had come from.
	He said the bone was, again, very similar to a human bone, except it was a little more pink in color.
	And then it contained what is called medically lacunae.
	And these are holes or apertures that are in the bone.
	He said it almost looked like osteoporotic bone, which in human is a diseased bone, which the calcium drops out and has holes in it.
	But he said because of the internal lacunae or holes or apertures in the bone, the tensile strength of the bone was much, much stronger than human bone.
	And he knew that what he had to do was to of course put the bone back, set the fracture and so on.
	And at some point he said he lost control and that whatever was happening was that whatever was laying there was controlling the movements of his hand.
	Holy mackerel!
	And he re-approximated the bone and he said when the ends were re-approximated, in other words, put together... Stop you for a question.
	Was there any anesthetic used?
	Yes, they were afraid to administer a gas anesthesia because they didn't know What this respiratory system was like, so they guessed that it would react to what local anesthesia, so they used it.
	But even after they used it, they didn't know whether it was producing anesthesia or whether the being had control over what he was feeling.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Once the bone ends were approximated, he said he couldn't move it.
	Did the creature make any noise?
	No.
	No noise.
	No noise, but it did move on the table.
	It had head turning movements.
	And there was a lot of rumors in this case, and some of the rumors indicated that these creatures made a buzzing noise like a bunch of bees.
	I didn't find that, and I couldn't get any testimony of that, but there are supposedly some witnesses that... And so at some point during his treatment, the doctor felt as though the movements were not his at all?
	That's correct.
	He said that he tried to explain it as best as he could by automatic movements of the hands that sort of guided his fingers in doing what he was doing.
	The closest thing I've ever heard of this is on Star Trek when I think Spock was putting himself together.
	But anyway, they fixed the wound without internal fixation.
	That means no plates, no pins, no screws, no wires.
	Right.
	Because when the bone ends were approximated, he couldn't move it.
	You're telling me it healed right away?
	The whole thing healed, he said, within 24 hours.
	Bone and superficial tissue.
	Oh my goodness.
	This is hot stuff.
	Well, it's an absolutely amazing emotional story, and there was an episode that I'll finish with here, which is even more amazing.
	I won't go into all the details, but there was a telepathic communication between the being and the doctor, and he said it was like downloading large amounts of information in his head, and it felt like somebody was hitting him over the head with a hammer.
	And the nature of the information?
	I'll get to that.
	He said that it was making him sick, like migraine headaches, which lasted for two weeks afterwards.
	But he knew he was getting it.
	He knew he was getting it, and I asked him, can you tell us what it is that you learned from the creature?
	And he says, I'm only going to tell you a very little bit at this meeting.
	And I said, okay, go.
	And he said the first thing the creature said was that he felt sorry for human beings.
	And I said, why?
	And his answer was, because the creature said that we could do everything that they could do, but we didn't know how to do it.
	And number two, the other reason he felt sorry for human beings, and this is very, very prophetic, he said, because we were totally detached from our spiritual self.
	That may be so.
	When this interview was finished, again, all I can do is verbally describe that here's a man who hasn't talked about this to a soul in six years, telling us this story.
	He's now sitting in a chair with his head bent over, his hands out in front of him that are absolutely shaking, with tears running down his face.
	Hold it right there.
	Holy smokes!
	Years since I've heard one unwind like this.
	My guest is Dr. Roger Lear.
	He's a podiatrist, but he's a ufologist.
	And what you've been hearing tonight, this one goes down in the records.
	I mean, this one absolutely goes down in the records.
	The heart of the city street is beating.
	Night from the neon's turned the dark to day We hear you dance, dance and die, having the time of your
	life Oh, sweet girl, watch them see, biggest fantasy queen
	Shining light and the lights are low, looking out for a place to go
	Hear the band, the white music, getting extreme, you come to love the pain
	Anybody could be that guy, light is strong and the music's high
	Wanna take a ride?
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
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	pressing option 5.
	If you've joined us, you've dropped right into the middle of one of the best shows on ufology I've ever done.
	And I've done a lot of them.
	Believe me.
	Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	You're very lucky if you've joined us, you've dropped right into the middle of one of the best shows on ufology I've
	ever done.
	And I've done a lot of them. Believe me. My guest is Dr.
	Roger Lear.
	And he's the reason for it all.
	He's telling us things that just haven't been told before about what went on in Brazil and a lot more.
	It'll continue in a moment and yes, we will take calls beginning this hour, so doors open.
	We will indeed take some questions for Dr. Lear, but here's another one.
	Thank you.
	Here's another one that comes from a listener, Casey in Eugene, Oregon.
	Could you please ask Dr. Lear if there was any indication of gender on the being?
	Did they observe any specific genitalia?
	The answer to that, like the last one, is no.
	No.
	That's an interesting answer.
	I mean, so much of it is reproductively oriented.
	That's curious, isn't it?
	Well, we don't know, you know, whether these are the same fellows as the other ones.
	The descriptions of these beings are certainly different than the ones that we found at Roswell.
	Yeah, very different.
	Very different.
	So maybe different strokes for the folks?
	Maybe, but the fact that there's so much reproductive study of us, and maybe even use of us, that maybe they, well, I don't know, it could lead to so many different lines of thought about, you know, you're always, I'm always
	anyway, trying to figure a motive to all of this. It seems reproductively
	oriented.
	Well, I think that's true, you know, with some of the other features that were
	described.
	A little residual nose, no particular peanut for ears.
	A mouth that didn't appear to be used for chewing or taking food in. So, they may not have need of
	some of the necessities that we have.
	Very true.
	You mentioned all this had a different ending.
	In other words, it didn't all get hidden away and protected by the military and hushed up.
	Somehow it ended differently.
	Well, it did because, number one, of the amount of witnesses that come forth.
	And as I said, as we speak, there is a conference going on In Virginia, it's the first one of its kind that were held there.
	The same doctor that we interviewed has come forth with more information.
	The doctor that treated the military police officer who succumbed to his interlude with one of these beings is also talking.
	The Brazilian military is retiring a number of people.
	Their stint in the military is a little bit different than it is here.
	Other witnesses came forth.
	When I was there, for example, we were allowed to go into the fire department, which is a no-no.
	You don't get civilian visitors at a military installation there.
	Is there any indication, Dr. Lear, that the U.S.
	government at any level that we're aware of got involved in this?
	Oh, yes, yes, yes.
	Oh, really?
	Okay, how?
	The eyewitnesses talk about the transportation of material and bodies to a town called Campinas, and ultimately to a university where an autopsy was done by the very famous Bob Polaris.
	Uh, who was the famous, uh, autopsy specialist and pathologist that described the bones of Mengele.
	And he was brought there by a military contingent, and there were U.S.
	military seen all around.
	No kidding.
	And, uh, plus, uh, when I was there before, I brought back, uh, some agreements that were between the U.S.
	and NASA and the Brazilian government.
	In which one was signed by Warren Christopher, and the agreement essentially was that they would allow the United States access to all non-terrestrial material obtained in Brazil, and because of that they would give back all the results of what they found from back engineering for use in the private sector.
	Wow!
	One of these documents is on my website, if folks would like to go there.
	And the website is?
	Alienscalpel.com with one F. Alienscalpel.com.
	I would think.
	I haven't looked yet, but I'm sure we have a link up on our website, CoastalCosmium.com right now that would take you there.
	Otherwise, that's the website.
	Well, you know, Because this is so recent, and because of everything you've described, this actually, you know, so far it sounds to me like it puts Roswell in the back seat.
	Well, it does.
	Roswell, let's say, is a contracting case, and this is an ever-expanding case.
	Also, we're dealing with different kinds of people.
	Both have been harassed.
	But you gotta remember that the government and the military in Brazil is a little bit different than what we have here.
	Are these beings still alive?
	Well, I guess we should finish the story.
	What happened to the being that was in the hospital?
	Yeah, what happened?
	I asked the doctor, I said, what happened?
	And he said, the being after 24 hours was taken by a military contingent out the back door of the hospital and taken away.
	Alive and well, I think.
	Alive and well.
	And I said, what condition was he in?
	And he said, he was in satisfactory medical condition.
	Now what does that mean?
	Well, we have categories that we classify patients in.
	If a movie star is injured in a hospital, you'll say, oh, he's critical.
	Those are all specific terminologies to describe how the individual, but when you say a patient is in satisfactory medical condition, that means The individual's vital signs are all normal and present and the patient is ambulatory.
	That's the condition this fella left the hospital.
	Alright, so he left alive.
	Jumping back for one second, I'd be derelict not to ask about this.
	While in the hospital, inevitably there's going to be some blood work and chemistry normally ordered.
	I would think.
	Well, there was, because he was able to describe the minute details of the blood.
	And there was blood work done.
	There was labs done.
	There was x-rays taken.
	All this was removed.
	But he saw it all?
	He saw it all.
	But you know, again, my quest for going there was the hope of bringing back physical evidence.
	But just almost as important as physical evidence itself sometimes is reliable eyewitness testimony.
	So this is a jewel.
	Yeah, first-person stuff like this, you betcha.
	So, anyway, he saw the being leave the facility in good, or in okay condition, satisfactory.
	Right, with a military condition.
	Now, we have eyewitness testimony, again, that says that this being was taken with several adjoining vehicles.
	Immediately to another hospital called Humanitas Hospital.
	We're taken in that hospital and the following day, three trucks pulled up to the back of the hospital, each looking like the other military trucks, flatbed with a canvas cover and a box of Something like a casket was loaded onto the back of one of these trucks and this being was placed in it and taken away.
	So within 24 hours... Something approximating a casket?
	So at this point... At this point, all indications are is that he is dead.
	Dead?
	Now again, there was some nursing testimony from Humanitas Hospital that said that For whatever the reason, they administered high dosages of oxygen to this patient in an attempt to resuscitate it and either the oxygen killed it or it died from God knows what other causes.
	Well, if the attempt was to resuscitate it, the presumption would be it was already in distress at the point they tried the oxygen trick, huh?
	Right, and the rest is all conjecture, but again, I have my own opinion, and it might be absolute baloney.
	I'll put that out as a disclaimer, but I think that any being that says it's in touch with its spirit and can heal itself or with others without being in a facility, this is one of the things that it relayed to the doctor.
	Any being with that kind of control seems to me has the ability to leave its body and carcass behind and go to a better place.
	Yeah, maybe.
	Maybe.
	I'm sure it was intelligent enough to get a dose of our primitive hospital facilities and probably figured, you know, I'm not going back where I came from, so goodbye.
	Yeah.
	But, you know, I can't prove that.
	It's just my opinion.
	And where do we think the craft now might be?
	It's here in the U.S.
	someplace.
	We know it's in the U.S.
	Yes, there was, again, testimony, military testimony.
	They even know what base the trucks wound up at and the kind of aircraft it was loaded onto and flown back to the U.S.
	Incredible stuff.
	Tremendous amount of knowledge in this case.
	Yeah, this is incredible stuff.
	So, is there going to be an effort to officially, in some way, get these witnesses together?
	I mean, this sounds like a monster story.
	Just a gigantic story, and well worthy of the kind of attention that was lavished on Roswell, only maybe even a lot more, because this is recent.
	Oh yes, yeah, and as I said, it's unfolding as we speak.
	There's differences.
	Again, the military tour of duty is much less than in the United States.
	These guys retire, and after they retire, they feel they're not bound by some of the military oaths, and they talk.
	Oh, and I started to say, there's a difference also in the way that the Brazilian people have been treated by their Military through the years.
	You got to remember that part of that government, you know, was a bunch of jackbooted thugs.
	Yeah.
	And they treated people in a despicable manner.
	So they were used to, you know, to living under that.
	We're not here.
	So, you know, they become defiant.
	By the way, I suppose it's worth asking you whether you ran into any of that kind of military attitude when you were there.
	In other words, here you were sniffing around Into something that the guys with the jackboots couldn't have been that happy about?
	Well, I was a little, had a little bit of trepidation because I thought, yeah, gosh, this is what's going to happen.
	We pulled up in front of the fire department and New Bureau Jarrett says, you're not legally allowed even to take a video or photographs of the front of this place.
	He said, but you know, I'm going to get out of the car and I can walk over there.
	And he says, I guess I can't stop you from photographing me.
	So that's what we did.
	We photographed him, and of course, with a zoom lens on, we got the whole front of the fire department facility.
	And when he got over there, two fellows came out, and they had a conversation with him, and soon he was waving at us to get out of the car.
	And we went in there, and they treated us like colleagues.
	We even put on the uniforms and took pictures with them.
	And we saw the very fire truck that was used in the capture of one of these beings.
	And you're now suggesting the Brazilian military is so thuggish that the people are actually in rebellion against being treated that way and so I guess I would conclude from that that they think it's just words and that the threats are not real or else they wouldn't be acting that way.
	At least some of them.
	You know, the doctor certainly was one that took their threats quite seriously.
	The other one was the wife of the deceased military police officer.
	Now, she had never been interviewed either.
	And I did about a 20-minute interview with her, and it was very enlightening, because she told me nothing.
	Every single question I asked her, she had no answer for.
	And I asked a very specific question.
	Did you look at the medical records of your husband?
	What were her symptoms?
	Right.
	How long was he home before he went into the hospital?
	Right.
	Did you get a death certificate?
	Did you go to the funeral?
	Where was he buried?
	Et cetera, et cetera.
	All those answers were, I don't know.
	No, I didn't get anything.
	I never got a death certificate.
	I don't get any compensation from the Brazilian government.
	I don't get anything from the military.
	Well, you have children.
	How do you live?
	I don't know.
	So there was another.
	You know, I mean, these are such basic questions about the death of your husband that I don't see how there could be non-answers.
	Of course, she was terrified.
	Absolutely terrified.
	But then others, for example, the wives of some of the military police officers that were on the base.
	There's an interesting story.
	They're used to their husbands coming home on weekends.
	Their stint on the base is five days.
	So they come home and they have plans with the wives and the families.
	Well, this episode occurs and a weekend happens.
	The husbands didn't come home, but the wives had plans.
	So, the following week, they went into the local hairdressers and they were talking to the hairdressers and they were complaining.
	My husband didn't come home because they were chasing aliens around the countryside.
	Oh, gee.
	Well, how about the Brazilian press?
	How did it treat the whole thing?
	There would be a big story.
	If not here, then there at least.
	Big, big story.
	Headlines in most of the major newspapers.
	A lot of TV.
	In fact, when I was there, I did on-the-spot TV, two radio programs, and these remote units are broadcast out to millions of people who get these channels in Brazil.
	Very, very open.
	unusual there to see, you know, Avni hovering above Sao Paulo or above the capital, Brasilia,
	as the headline in the paper and people don't really get too excited.
	Well, that was going to be my question.
	How Brazilians react compared to U.S.
	citizens?
	They don't get too excited about it.
	In fact, you can pick up, really, anybody that's listening can do this.
	Go get a tour book in Brazil, and look up UFOs, and they'll tell you where to go see UFOs.
	It's an everyday occurrence, and there's stuff going on down there now.
	Which is just absolutely tremendous.
	I've seen some pictures taken of craft.
	There's interactions between somebody and primitive people who live in the Amazon jungle.
	Things going on there that we don't hear about.
	What do you think in the Brazilian psyche that's that much different than the American psyche allows them to think in such an apparent nonchalant way?
	You know, when you're more open about a subject, I think that it's common psychology that you become less sensitized to it, and you look at it like the local football score or the local soccer match.
	When things are kept a secret and ridiculed, they don't have the ha-ha, tee-hee factor down there.
	I've done many hours of radio and television in Brazil, and I've been on some shows that were like documentaries and others that were variety-type shows with everything from naked dancers to musicians to newscasters to whatever.
	The whole system, life is different there.
	Their eating is different.
	The times of the day that people do things are different.
	It's a very open society, very warm, hugging people, and they love to eat.
	It's a place where you don't want to go to get breakfast before you find it.
	But your impression is they're an honest people, and that what you heard from all these witnesses, very important stuff, was the real McCoy.
	Absolutely.
	I was impressed with the sincerity as I have with other places that I've gone to.
	In Brazil, I was in Falls do Iguaçu, which is in the southern region where three areas, countries come together, Paraguay, Brazil.
	And Argentina, and you can stand at one spot and you can look into two other countries.
	All right, hold it right there, doctor.
	And we are going to have to take some phone calls.
	We're going to do exactly that when we come back.
	If you have a question for Dr. Lear, and I bet you do after hearing all this, well, here we are.
	About 30 minutes to 2 a.m.
	here on the West Coast, I'm Art Bell.
	It's 2 a.m.
	and Peter is gone.
	Listen to what I have to say.
	Because I'm still warm.
	Yes!
	Yes!
	With his dying name Turning gold
	But the white bird Just sits in the cage
	Growing old White bird must fly
	Or she will die White bird must fly
	Or she will die you
	The sun sets long, the sun sets cold The clouds go by, the earth turns cold
	And the angry tide, you always know And she must fly
	She must fly She must fly
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	From coast to coast and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	You do not frequently get an opportunity to ask somebody who knows this much about an alien race Questions.
	Dr. Roger Lear is my guest and that's where we're going.
	You know I'm just a talk show host, right?
	And I do talk shows on this kind of material.
	So, obviously, I've heard of this incident in Brazil.
	I have never, ever Had the kind of details laid out in front of me that we've had tonight.
	Not even close.
	So, obviously this is a monster case.
	Now, let me set this up.
	I'm recalling the last major thing that happened here.
	And the odd way in which it was handled by the press, and I refer, of course, to the Phoenix Lights situation.
	You know, the night it happened, I was on the air and I took calls about the Phoenix Lights.
	It was obvious at that time that it was a monstrous story, and we covered it as such on the air.
	But then an odd thing happened.
	Months and months went by, and all of a sudden, all at once, in concert, CNN ABC, NBC, CBS, every news outlet you can name began to cover this story like somebody threw a damn switch!
	I mean, it was that much in unison, you know, just like that.
	Boom!
	Everybody started covering it months later like it had just happened the day before.
	I'm wondering if there's some aspect of that possibly going on with this story you've been telling us, Dr. Lear.
	In other words, it's a big one.
	Is it going to be the kind of deal where some investigative magazine, you know, like 60 Minutes or I don't know, whatever, goes down there and pops this story wide open to America months or years down the line?
	Well, I've been discussing this case with some possible television outlets, producers that have some interest.
	You know, just like you mentioned, the Phoenix Lights, that's an ongoing thing.
	It's not over.
	I'm here at the Bay Area UFO Conference, and two physicians, we're here, Lynn Katai and her husband, who live in Phoenix, and actually filmed the Phoenix Lights and the surrounding incidents for months.
	And it's still going on.
	I know, but nobody's ever going to be able to explain the delayed press reaction by months, and then all of a sudden, like it happened yesterday.
	And I just wonder, could that have happened here?
	I don't know, but I seriously doubt it.
	Why?
	I don't know.
	Maybe I'm just very pessimistic over the whole thing, but I mean, there's good indications in what you're saying, and what we all know is that there seems to be some magical control over the public information system.
	I don't know.
	I suppose, you know, if you had a thorough understanding, you could make a good prediction, but I certainly am not in that position.
	All right, but in position you are for a few questions.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Roger Lear.
	Hello.
	Yes, hello.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	First thing you've got to do, everybody.
	Got it.
	Okay.
	You have a question for the doctor?
	Just more of a comment.
	Okay.
	Common is, you know, after 60 years of indoctrination, why doesn't the government just come clean on the aliens?
	All right, well, that's a question, all right.
	That's a big one.
	And actually, in the case involving Brazil, it's got an even bigger implication.
	I mean, things have happened in Russia, China, there have been incidents all over the world, and if you conclude that You know, our government knows.
	Well, then other governments also know.
	And there must be some degree of complicity, or this story would have been broken wide open.
	Don't you think, Doctor?
	Oh, I do indeed.
	And I believe that the information is under somebody's control.
	But, you know, you have to kind of stand back and look at the whole thing.
	You know, where should the blame be placed?
	Terrestrial blame, or maybe not terrestrial blame?
	Maybe there's somebody else that doesn't want this information all over the place.
	If NORAD has the ability to notify the Brazilian military of the coordinates where a craft is going to impact in Brazil, and the eyewitnesses describe it with a piece missing and smoke pouring out of the back, I wonder how it got in that condition.
	Yeah, maybe the military knows something about that, too.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Roger Lear.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	Hi, how you doing?
	All right, sir, go ahead.
	All right, first of all, I used to be one of those non-believers, the people who scoffed at all the alien encounters, but that all changed with my own encounter.
	That's a whole story in itself.
	My question for your guest is, with all the sightings that were down in Brazil, and continuous sightings that you mentioned, how come there's not much more media coverage up here?
	I mean, other than, like, you've got the Sun-Times and all those, I guess, colorful papers that report it every day.
	Maybe it's that our That we've done such a good job on ourselves.
	I mean, what, gee, what greater disinformation organ could there be than the way the press reports all of this since, what's-his-name held the balloon up, said, this is what it was.
	We seem to destroy ourselves in a way.
	Ufology is a self-destructive sort of thing, isn't it, Doctor?
	It seems to be, and my other comment on that is, how much news do we really get in the U.S.
	about anything that goes on in Brazil, even the most trivial stuff?
	How much?
	I like cars.
	I've collected cars for years and I didn't have any idea that Volkswagen, the old ones,
	the Beetles were produced as brand new cars in Brazil up until just a couple of years
	ago.
	So how much do we really know about what goes on?
	Very, very little.
	I'm always telling my audience they should be listening to International Shortwave.
	That's one source of news you don't get here.
	And then, of course, the Internet gives us the luxury now of reading newspapers that come from Moscow and around the world.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Roger Lear.
	Hello.
	Yes.
	My name is Dora and I'm calling from Texarkana, Texas.
	I get your program over WAI San Antonio.
	It's a pleasure to talk to both of you.
	My greetings to both of you.
	The question that I need answered, please, is the radio faded out some and we did not get all of what the alien said to the doctor.
	One other thing that I would like for you to address and then I will hang up and get that over the radio.
	I have missing time, and I'm well aware of having been abducted before.
	I have no fear of this.
	I believe I do have something in my arm, and for some strange reason, I'm reluctant to even consider having it taken out, and I'm wondering if you could comment on that.
	Thank you very much.
	Alright.
	There are people, Doctor, who, Whitley's one of them, is fearful, you know that thing in his ear, he's actually fearful of having it I remember a lot of trepidation about that.
	Is there any basis for that?
	He asked me once, he said, can you guarantee I'm not going to croak after this is removed?
	And I said, yeah, sure.
	No way.
	All I can tell you is from past experience, I've removed a lot of foreign bodies.
	I've been in practice now for over 41 years.
	I haven't had anybody.
	Croak have bad results, but the 12 cases that we did, if that's any use as a record... None of them croaked.
	None of them croaked, and everybody is happy.
	But I mean, it is a reasonable fear.
	I mean, you just finished telling us about a man who croaked after having one of these things on his lap.
	Yeah, but I think there's a difference between having something on your lap and having something in your body.
	But generally, I'm not going to give Willie any guarantee.
	Well, that would have slowed me down, too.
	The gentleman who just called, our last caller, in answer to his last question, if he thinks that he has something in his body and he really wants to know, for heaven's sakes, go out and get an x-ray taken.
	And then talk to you.
	Yeah, then if there's something there, or if there's not, he wants to send me the x-ray, I'm happy to look at it.
	Alright, his first question actually was what the alien said, or, you know, was transferred by mind.
	Well, what the doctor told me, we'll repeat that, was two things.
	He said that number one, he felt sorry for the human race, and when asked Why?
	In this conversation, he says, because human beings could do what they could do, but we didn't know how to do it.
	As an example, he said that wherever it is he came from, it would not be necessary for him to be in a facility to cure the problem that he had, because either singularly or in unison with others, they could produce a cure without being in any kind of specialized facility.
	The second one was that he felt sorry for the human race because we were totally detached from our spiritual self.
	Do you think, based on all you know, Doctor, so far in this lifelong investigation, that we should, how should we think of these visitors?
	Should we think of them as potential friends, watchers?
	Should we be afraid of them?
	What?
	Well, if humankind is any indication of what's out there in the universe, better watch out, because, you know, there's good guys and there's bad guys.
	So, I wouldn't give any blanket invitation to anybody.
	All right.
	Wes for the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Lear.
	Hi.
	Thank you.
	Yes, I'm calling from Lane County, Oregon, and this is beautiful timing.
	I have been studying.
	I have two questions.
	First, I heard that a debt finder could find the implant, and then I had a comment.
	Interesting question.
	One of the cases that I operated on was a fellow who was by trade a craftsman, carpenter, contractor.
	And he knew he had an object in the back of his hand for years.
	In fact, it had been in for 46 somewhat years.
	And he would have fun, and he would entertain guests by taking a stud finder and running it over the back of his hand.
	I had heard that.
	And my comment, and I want to know if you agree, I had, too, began to hear, I thought, oh, he's off his nut, and they're all off their nuts about UFOs and such.
	I love God and I love spirit and I began researching and there is a very interesting and when you said iron tonight it just ran the chills through me.
	There's a scripture that talks about the enemy of mankind or the adversary that will mingle himself or themselves with the seed of men that are of miry clay and they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men but shall not cleave one to another Even as iron is not mixed with clay, and it says by doing this in the Hebrew, so what I do is I go and get the words in English, and then I look up the number in Hebrew, and then I give the translation and run it all together, and it is mind-blowing.
	Well, that certainly was.
	Thank you very much.
	That really was pretty good.
	There is apparently some biblical support for iron being mixed into all of this.
	I wonder, Doctor, do you think that when all is said and done, the only reason that I've ever imagined that the American government and the powers that be, and or the shadow, whatever, wouldn't tell the American people, would be if the real truth was, or at least we were told by those who came to us in this manner, That they, in essence, were our gods, our designers.
	That would be totally unacceptable to the majority of the American people.
	I mean, I read a story in the first hour of the program, Doctor, about a cat with wings.
	This cat was deformed, or something, or weird, and it had wings.
	This was in Russia.
	And the first thing they did was drown it, because it was a devil.
	Because it was a devil, devil cat, for that wing, so they drowned it.
	We're not primitive, are we?
	Well, if we do that with a couple of wing signs on a cat, imagine what we'd do to something like what you described.
	Yeah, well, look at some of the stories, again, back to Roswell, particularly the one that kind of excites and nauseates me is the one, the story about the Military personnel who hit this ugly creature in the head with a rifle butt.
	That's right.
	So, yeah, there's going to be reactions, but I think there's, you know, like we said before, there's different reactions by different people.
	The world is changing.
	Certainly, countries are becoming much more of a melting pot, particularly the United States.
	We're getting used to seeing all sorts of things.
	Look at the kids being raised in school today, and getting used to looking at everything.
	Look at the bumper stickers on cars with grey aliens.
	All of that's true, but I still say we pulverize the little creature, or cut it up, or, you know, it wouldn't be good one way or the other.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Roger Lear.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Art?
	Yes.
	Can I ask you a question?
	Turn off your radio, please.
	That's number one.
	And then, I've got a guest, so do you have a question for my guest?
	No, I had a question from last weekend.
	Okay, well that's... Lightning strikes.
	Right.
	I appreciate it, but that's not appropriate at the moment.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Roger Lear.
	Hello.
	Very short on time here.
	Hey, Dr. Lear and Art.
	Hi.
	I'm calling from Albuquerque, and this doesn't have to do with Brazil, but it has to do with... I know some people, they all live in the same neighborhood in Albuquerque.
	I don't want to mention it.
	They have something growing out of them, and it's like a parasite because it keeps growing, but it looks like fishing line, and you just pull it out of their skin.
	That's pretty weird.
	And it's very, very bizarre.
	One of the guys spent $40,000 going to doctors trying to figure out what he has growing out of his skin, but he's not the only one.
	A little girl in the neighborhood had part of her intestinal tract removed because of this stuff.
	This stuff?
	Well, and nobody, no doctor has ever said what it is.
	Well, alright, that brings up actually an interesting question.
	If these implants, or if things done to human beings, are in some way negatively affecting them, doctor, you know, with things like that, I don't know, and other oddities that show up, would we necessarily register the fact that what we were seeing as some medical weirdness Well, I think you have to go back to the source of the problem.
	an extraterrestrial source or as an artifact of tampering with genetics or whatever?
	I think you have to go back to the source of the problem.
	And you know, as I said at the beginning of the show, I believe we should stick with academic science and use it
	as a tool, not to jump to conclusions.
	We know that space has organisms, and those organisms come to earth.
	Other things that come to Earth also carry organisms.
	Who knows where Ebola came from?
	It just popped up all of a sudden?
	People got infections?
	Absolutely did.
	So where did it come from?
	Things like Jose Escamilla was looking at.
	These rod things, you know, they may be leftovers from the far, far past.
	Our environment is still full of all kinds of mysteries.
	There are so many things that we just don't have answers for.
	And tonight really has been totally full of them.
	All right.
	Listen again for the DVD or for the book.
	uh... as second edition about another week or and or uh...
	the video dvd that's gotta be a winner
	here's a phone number eric hooded all five four nine five
	two six one three it'll fall for nine five two six one three it's been a pleasure
	doctor and it's been an amazing night all i can say is thank you
	my pleasure and uh... as usual it's uh... wonderful being on the air with
	an intelligent, clear-thinking person.
	Thank you, Art.
	Thank you, and good night, Doctor.
	All right.
	That's it, folks.
	That's The Weeknd.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Here's Crystal with just the right words to take us out.
	Midnight in the desert Shooting stars across the sky This magical journey

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