Art Bell

All Episodes

Previous Next

Aug. 28, 2004 - Art Bell

02:52:52

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Eric Brende - The Simple Life

Participants

Main voices

58:06

eric brende

01:01:43

whitley strieber

24:12

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, when you may be in the world 25 minutes and we come to the moment by myself.
		I bid you a good darkness.
		It's great to be here.
		It's great to be here.
		I guess I've got a note.
		The woman I love so much is not Lord Blanc in dead at 47 years of age.
		I play her record frequently self-control because I love the message.
		And I love the music.
		And she went, I guess, instantly in her sleep with a brain aneurysm.
		And that's awfully early, but if you gotta go, I would imagine that's one of the better ways.
		It's relatively instant, and you just never see it coming.
		And you're asleep on top of that.
		So sad, but there probably are worse ways to go.
		Goodbye.
		Laura, you are one hell of a singer.
		That's for sure.
		Now, we're going to do all kinds of interesting things tonight.
		In the next hour, I think this is going to be a blast because it's so foreign to me.
		Eric Brendi will be here.
		And he is a real tech type at Yale, it looks like.
		National Science Foundation, McMellon Foundation.
		You know, this guy has tech written all over him.
		Well, he decided to just flip off the switch and go live a life with a group called the Minimites.
		It's a good name, right?
		Minimites, as in minimum.
		In this case, less in minimum.
		In other words, he threw away all technology, television, I guess, and radio and the internet and everything.
		I'm so into technology.
		He and his wife went and lived with the Minnamites.
		And they, you know, the Mennomites, I guess, make those in Pennsylvania who drive a horse and carriage around look like tech people.
		So try and imagine what it must have been like.
		Coming up in a moment, in the first hour, a surprise for you.
		Whitley Streeber is here, author of War Day, co-author actually of War Day, co-author of The Coming Global Superstorm, which became, as you know, the incredible hit movie.
		And boy, it was about 28th, I believe it is now, in international earnings of movies of all time.
		The day after tomorrow.
		28th, can you believe that?
		And the DVD will come out next month.
		No, no, no, no.
		In October, actually, early October.
		Also, of course, Communion, I think he's probably best known for Communion, is Whitley Streeber.
		And we're going to talk about several things.
		Last week, I was totally blown away by La Pama.
		Remember that?
		This incredible thing that could occur out in the Atlantic Ocean that would put 300-foot waves on shore?
		We'll talk a bit about it.
		And the Elmendorf beast.
		Now, strange beasts are always fun to talk about.
		This, though, is a real one.
		Real in that it existed.
		Now, whether it was a product of Mother Nature or a product of a lab somewhere may be in contention.
		That's the Elmendorf beast.
		We'll talk about that.
		And, of course, the magnetic poles shift.
		That's a lot of territory.
		So in a moment, we will begin.
unidentified		We will begin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's turned into quite a researcher, actually, and of course a broadcaster doing Dreamland as it continues in present form on the internet.
		He's an incredible guy.
		This is Whitley Strieber.
		Hey, buddy.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Ari.
		It's great to talk to you again.
		I'm back on coast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's always great to talk to you.
		I take it you're following our movie rather closely the day after tomorrow.
		Now the 28th greatest earner of all time.
		Of all time in movies.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Of all time.
		And it may be one of the most prophetic movies of all time, too.
		There have been some just literally moments before we got on the air.
		I found a story that has been apparently posted on Space Daily within the past hour, or maybe two, to the effect that temperatures in the high Arctic Ocean have risen more in the past year than is to be believed.
		One degree of Fahrenheit in a single year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A whole degree?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		A whole degree.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we say, well, that's not much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, it is.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		But for millions of tons of water, it's major.
		It is major.
		It really means that there is a significant Arctic melt going on.
		And you know what that means.
		It means those ocean currents are going to get weaker.
		If you look on Unknown Country and you see this, go to the Quick Watch section and you click on the part about the Gulf Stream, it doesn't even look like a Gulf Stream anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It's just a...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's like a gigantic step for the administration.
		So there's all kinds of breaking news about this.
		You're right.
		All right, look, we don't have a lot of time.
		We've got a lot of ground we've got to cover.
		Anytime there's a report of a beast, it's our kind of story here and your kind of story.
		And I understand it's number one right now in Unknown Country, right?
		Papa the Hit lives there?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Right.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		You go to Unknown Country and the mystery of the Elmendorf beast is the lead story.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		There are some great pictures there Yeah, back up all the way, would you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because this is the very beginning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		A rancher down in South Texas began to notice that his chickens were being attacked by something.
		And he began looking for it and soon began to see around his ranch a rather strange animal.
		It was hairless, had a long tail, had very exaggerated rear haunches, shorter front legs, and a coyote-like head, but with very big canines, very fang-like teeth.
		He got a shot at this animal, and it fell over.
		And he thought that the creature was playing possum.
		Because there's any number of different animals which shocked like that will just literally fall over.
		So he walked up on it closer, shot it three more times, and then left the area to do other things on his ranch.
		And I might say, just at the outset, we have been encouraging ranchers in the area not to shoot these animals, but rather to try to trap one.
		And there's a lot of concern down there because other people are finding goats and chickens and so forth are being destroyed.
		And these fellows are not, you know, they're not animal rights activists.
		they're gonna shoot it if it eats their farm animals.
		In any case, we're hoping to stop the shooting, but to go back to the story, he couldn't find any You better go back and take pictures.
		So he went back and he took pictures of it.
		And he was surprised to see there was no bullet holes in it.
		And he eventually went back and buried it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute.
		The guy shot it four total times.
		Four times.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No bullet holes.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		He did not see any.
		And he thought that was quite unusual because he was a marksman in the army, as he told me.
		And he wasn't think too much of it because this is a guy on a ranch.
		He's not thinking about anything weird.
		He just has this strange animal there.
		He's taking his pictures.
		He buries it.
		And eventually, by hook or crook, none other than Linda Moulton Howe hears about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is right down her alley, sir.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It's right down her alley.
		So guess who finds out who he is and calls him up and does all of her usual great stuff?
		Linda does.
		And sure enough, we have on August the 34th, I mean on July the 31st, a report on Dreamland from Linda in our regular segment at the end of the show.
		And incidentally, if you want to listen to that report at some point, you can go to Unknown Country, click on Dreamland on the upper right-hand side.
		The very last program, there are five programs there.
		The fifth program is just this report.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I have a question already.
		I'm on your page, and I'm looking at a picture of the skull.
		And this creature, obviously, is very decomposed.
		How long ago?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It was in, I think it was a couple of months before Well, if you went down to South Texas, you'd find out why.
		First of all, the fire ants got the thing before he buried it within hours.
		Then he buried it.
		It's not quite as fast as the middle of the Matto Grosso in the Brazilian jungle, but it's definitely up there in terms of speed.
		This is very humid and very hot this time of year, so yeah, the decomposition was profound quickly.
		In any case, he buried the creature in sand and eventually realized that there was something more here than just another annoyance and the loss on his ranch.
		And the story began to get out.
		The local media picked it up, and Linda picked it up.
		It came onto Dreamland.
		And I was immediately fascinated.
		My brother is a, Richard Streeber is an amateur naturalist, but more than an amateur.
		He's a very advanced amateur naturalist.
		And I told him about it.
		He was immediately fascinated.
		Gathered together a team, including a biologist and some other people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your brother did this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My brother did this.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		He lives in San Antonio, and he's quite capable and has access to all of the right kinds of scientists who would be able to go down there and gather samples properly at a scientific level of recovery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Way to go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		So they went down and recovered it.
		Our website paid for DNA analysis, which is underway right now at one of the world's leading labs.
		And in three to four weeks, we should get the first set of results.
		And we will see whether or not this is a canine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		what do you think we have on our hands here i mean it might be asking i'm character risked spot It doesn't.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		There's something about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, though, I'll say, Looking at the skull, there certainly is.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, you look at the teeth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I am.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		And what you're looking at is really quite remarkable.
		The chief biologist at the San Antonio Zoo has seen the skull.
		The rancher has taken him the skull.
		And they immediately thought the same thing our biologists did, that this is a canine skull of some kind, but these teeth are not only not canine, they're not even mammalian.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I take it, Whitley, that the sample you provided is, I mean, it's deteriorated, obviously, but it's going to be very good, fresh, relatively fresh DNA, right?
unidentified		Absolutely.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It's a molar and a...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's going to give you very high quality DNA.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Very high quality DNA from inside the tooth and from some ribs that we took.
		So we will definitely get excellent and copious DNA for many tests.
		No question whatsoever about it.
		We have this, and we have it from two different parts of the body as well, which helps.
		So if we can understand this, we will.
		I mean, we will find a scientific answer to this question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in some of the brief material you sent me, you seem to indicate that you might be speculating or leaning toward the possibility that this could be a designer animal or a lab animal?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, the problem is this jaw.
		The biologists who have looked at that jaw, looking at, if you go to the website and you click on the third picture, I guess, on the story, if you click on the full story, you see a blow-up of the skull itself.
		And you look at those canines.
		The thing is that this is not, it's not really well-formed.
		It's not a deformity.
		Because if it was a deformity, it would be a repeat of some other part of the animal.
		But dogs, canines, don't have the genetic encoding for this type of tooth.
		Really, the structure of the jaw is not an immelion, as the biologist from the zoo pointed out.
		It's something else.
		And that does suggest some kind of genetic manipulation, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Manipulation or mutation?
		Both M-words.
		Could it be either one?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Mutation is a possibility, too, of course.
		And whether the animal had sarcoptic mange, which is full-body mange, or was just hairless, we don't know.
		But it was observed eating mulberries as well as killing chickens, which means it's omnivorous like canines are.
		We're fairly sure that there's something in the dog family in this animal.
		But there's something else in it, too.
		You know, there have been some other pictures.
		There's some pictures from Maryland that we feel is not the same animal.
		It's a creature with sarcoptic manes, probably a fox or a coyote.
		But there are a couple of other pictures that were taken, oddly enough, up near the NIDS Ranch, which are too blurry to really be sure, but they do have this same pronounced rear haunch where the creature almost looks kangaroo-like when it's standing up.
		And it seems possible, I mean, the NIDS Ranch, as you know, is the ranch owned by Bob Bigelow up in Utah, I guess, which is a place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where very strange things occur.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Many very strange things occur.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		And among the people who have seen the animal up there is John Alexander, none other than Colonel John Alexander, whom I'm sure you've had on your show before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		And I have...
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Unfortunately, the two snaps that we have of the animal that was taken up in Utah are so blurry and from so far away, there's just absolutely no way to be sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but we do have some really hard evidence here.
		So how much will the genetics tell us, do you know?
		I mean, how specific can it be?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		They'll tell us everything that they can, and they can tell us certainly if this is what species range it is in.
		If it is, in fact, a definite specific subspecies, they can tell us right down to the breed that it is, if it's a dog, for example.
		They can tell us a coyote and what type of coyote.
		They can get very, very detailed and very specific.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have a question, Whitley.
		Maybe you will not have the answer to this, but is it legal in this country to genetically manipulate animals and create essentially new breeds?
		We are allowed, aren't we, I think, to tamper with the genetics of animals at that level?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		As far as releasing breeding pairs into the wild in ranchland in South Texas, I think they'll try hard to find a law that has been violated because the rancher feels that this was a female and that it was pregnant.
		And therefore, these creatures are breeding down there.
		And if that happens, obviously there's going to be a considerable amount of trouble.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know what it was that made him think this creature was pregnant?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he saw udders on it, developed udders, and it seemed to be fat in the belly when it was dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my goodness.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		So he was concerned that it was a pregnant female.
		And other ranchers in the area have seen similar things.
		They feel.
		There was one fellow who had a very definite sighting of one which was tracking his goats.
		And so he felt like, you know, they feel like there are others down there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whitley, isn't it possible that every now and then nature gives us a new animal?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that possible?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's the so-called punctuated equilibrium theory of evolution and we can see instances of it in the past, yes, where it now appears from the s from the fossil record that new animals do occasionally show up very abruptly.
		And it uh that's always a possibility.
		But I I have a feeling that with this strange jaw that the it doesn't look like a good jaw, it doesn't look like a jaw that's gonna really be a very effective tool for an animal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would lead you to believe, well, perhaps the hand of man tinkered where it ought not.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		There's something very dramatic about it and scary.
		And it you know those big long teeth and it just I have the feeling that the hand of somebody other than God is in this.
		Let me put it that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I you know are there more sightings going on?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, as I say, the ranchers reported one other sighting from a friend of his.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's not too much yet, but you have to wonder is some.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are liable to be more.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there's.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whitley, we're at the bottom of the hour.
unidentified		Hold on for a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Elmendorf Beast, a new or old thing, but certainly never before seen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The testing is going on now.
unidentified		Would you pay 15 cents to hear this show in its entirety?
		That's the daily charge for Streamlink.
		Sign up at www.coast2coastam.com.
		Music Can you hear my heartbeat in this house?
		Nothing matters in the night.
		Doesn't matter in the night, no control through the wall.
		Something like me, wearing white as I'm walking down the street of the soul.
		Take the time to take a look at home.
		You got me living only for the night before the story.
		You take it down, take a top control.
		Another night, another day.
		I never stopped myself to wander wild You have to forget to play my role You take that, you make myself ungrown I, I live among the creatures of the night I haven't got the will to try and fight Against a new tomorrow So I guess I'll just believe it But tomorrow will never
		come I said, night I'm living in the forest of a dream I know the night is not as if it seems I must believe in something So I'll make myself believe it This night will never go Oh, oh, oh Laura Brannigan, born at 47 years of age.
		Want to take a ride?
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east to the Rockies, call Troll Free 800-825-5033.
		From west to the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free-800-893-0903.
		from coast to coast and worldwide on the internet this is coast to coast a m with art bell So sorry, she's gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In a moment, we'll continue with Whitley's Streeber, and we're going to talk about La Palma.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if you don't know what La Palma is, I didn't.
unidentified		You're going to want to listen very, very carefully.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		La Palma Since Whitley and I were the genesis of what became the day after tomorrow, whenever there's a reference to it, you know, in the media, I obviously, you know, something like that, the baby.
		So I noticed right away.
		And there was this story last week about La Pama.
		And basically, it said, if there's another eruption, the west side of La Pama falls into the ocean, it'll create waves that'll make, I think the reference was the day after tomorrow look like, you know, a day in the bathtub or something.
		And I'm going, what?
		What?
		And so apparently it's true.
		And I mentioned it to Whitley, I don't know, very early in the week.
		And researching, he went.
		And Whitley, what's up with La Palma?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm embarrassed to say that I found a story on my own website that I hadn't read.
		And it's called Big Wave Coming from August the 12th.
		Tens of millions of people along the east coast of the U.S. and Canada may drown if a volcano of North Africa slides into the sea.
		Now, get this.
		A volcanologist named McGuire says, quote, the U.S. government must be aware of the threat.
		I am sure they are not taking it seriously.
		They certainly should be worried, as should the island states of the Caribbean.
		A future president of the United States must make a call on what to do when La Palma collapses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not if.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		What do you do, man?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not if, Not if, but when, right?
		In other words, this baby has let go any number of times in the past, but now we have this precipitous western part, and if it goes into the ocean.
		You know, I looked up La Palma on the web, and it showed a picture from space, and I was thinking of La Palma as this small little place, Whitley.
		But hell no, man, it's got mountains that have snow on them for several thousand feet.
		I mean, it's a monstrous thing.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		The Cumbre Vieja volcano dominates the island of La Palma.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is the island.
		It is the island.
		So this thing is set, or it's like at a precipice point.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It explodes fairly often.
		It erupted in 1949.
		It erupted in 1971.
		Now, in 1949 is when this process of collapse began.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		And it is now at the point where it's possible that another eruption might either cause the cliff, which underwater is just this enormous, precipitate cliff going down at vast distances into the deep, to fall in part, or the whole thing could collapse.
		And if the whole thing collapses, you're going to see a vast tragedy, and we need to know what is going on down there.
		Somebody had better get down there and get looking at that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess so.
		I mean, it's not like you hear about it a lot on the news or even at all.
		And it would wipe out Caribbean islands, I suppose.
		They wouldn't exist anymore, would they?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, it would.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		And I've been doing some research on tsunamis, and it's interesting that every so often on this planet, a really big wave comes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Apparently.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Almost all of China was inundated by a wave about 15,000 years ago, so much so that there are areas in China that are called ivory mountains where they mine ivory from animal tusks.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		These enormous quantities of animals were swept up into this area in central China like seaweed is swept up at the edge of the beach when the tide comes in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if this baby goes, the United States would have about seven hours notice, maybe.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		They would be the seven worst hours in history.
		And we would have seven to ten hours.
		Ten hours.
		New York would have the seven hours, of course.
		Bermuda would have about two.
		The Bahamas, I mean, we wouldn't get that far, but down in the central and eastern Caribbean, they'd have eight or nine hours, and Canada would have seven about also.
		And that wave could range anywhere from 50 or 60 feet to 300 feet in height.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there was some line in the story I read saying, and it wouldn't just be a wave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would keep coming and keep coming and keep coming.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it would be exactly.
		As the volcano collapsed, as the cliff undersea cliff collapsed, it would come again and again and again.
		And there would be waves of various heights involved.
		It would be absolutely devastating.
		And it seems clear that we need to do a lot more study of that volcano and above all, to get analysts down under the water to see exactly what the state of the cliff is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe there's this, Whitley.
		Maybe there's a sort of mentality out there that, well, we can't stop it.
		There's nothing we can do about it.
		However, you would think evacuation plans would be the very least that we could do for the people on the coasts who otherwise aren't going to exist.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, the first thing we need to do is find out the degree of likelihood, and that we certainly can do.
		We can analyze the state of the cliff.
		We can look at the likelihood of, we can monitor the volcano, very effective volcano monitoring these days.
		We can get it to the point where we have an idea of what's going to come down.
		Now, what if they find out the worst case scenario, and they figure out that the volcano could go off at any time, and when it does, it's going to cause essentially the destruction of the entire East Coast of the United States.
		What are they going to say?
		Damn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I think, Whitley, that I may have seen one, you know, like 60 Minutes or one of those programs did something on it a long time ago, and I sort of remember going, oh my God, how come none of us know about this?
		And it hit me exactly the same way last week.
		How come we're not, I don't know, monitoring, testing, talking about it?
		That's what's worrying something or another.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Maybe we are.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		But you'd think that if that was true, the president would spend even more time in Groff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I suppose the president with seven hours' notice, he'd be able to get out of the way no matter what.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's true.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, no president, I don't think any president who knew this would fail to do as much as he possibly could about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're not in error about any of this.
		No, it is as we described.
		We're not exaggerating.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		And not only that, the volcano is not quiescent.
		It's an active volcano.
		I mean, it erupts every 25 to 200 years.
		The last eruption was 1971.
		There's every reason to think that it might happen again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would be a hell of a target for a terrorist, wouldn't it?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think they've learned yet how to actually cause volcanoes to go off, thank goodness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, but I don't know what a nuke would do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Ooh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And everybody will immediately say, don't give them ideas.
		Well, you know, they're thinking of nothing else but.
		So this kind of stuff has already crossed their mind.
		It just crossed mine suddenly, you know, if somebody were to set off that western cliff.
		Anyway, time is short, and there is one other thing I definitely want to cover with you, but I hope people will take what we just said to heart, please, and learn more about it.
		The Earth's magnetic field, fascinating topic all by itself.
		A lot of stories lately, Whitley, of birds, you know, large flocks of birds flying weirdly in circles, not knowing where to go, found dead because they couldn't migrate to their normal places.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		And butterflies have ended up in Canada that are supposed to come up across the United States.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Their migration pattern changed also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, just recently.
		This is fascinating.
		Every 500,000 years, the magnetic pole, not the planet itself, but the magnetic pole flips, and north becomes south, and south becomes north.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is the thing that makes your compass point north.
		The attraction is north, and suddenly it flips.
		So north is now suddenly south.
		And I guess, how much do we know about how fast it flips?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what we don't know, unfortunately.
		The last time it did this was 750,000 years ago, and it has definitely been confirmed that it is in the process of doing it now.
		Now, we don't know how fast this takes place.
		Some scientists feel that the magnetic field will immediately reconstitute itself because the solar wind will cause that to happen.
		And others feel that it will remain in chaos for quite a period of time.
		If this happens, and there's a solar flare, and a lot of gamma radiation and so forth comes towards Earth, it would be conceivably like an electromagnetic pulse atom, series of electromagnetic pulse atom bombs going off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everybody, bear in mind, the magnetic field protects us from the more dangerous of the Sun's eruptive particles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if that were gone or neutralized for a period of time, then shields are down in Star Trek talk.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		That is right.
		Shields are down, and we would experience a mess, actually.
		And there would be effects.
		There already are effects like this.
		For example, satellites in the southern hemisphere were damaged a few weeks ago during a solar flare because they were inside the Earth's magnetic field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		And the part of the magnetic field they were in at that time was in flux.
		It was very weak.
		And the field keeps opening up holes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A hole in the magnetic field, really?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And I think, I can't prove this, but there was a period of time in a town in Sicily where there were a lot of very bizarre electromagnetic effects.
		Car doors were suddenly locking for no reason.
		A similar thing happened in Utah.
		A similar thing happened in England.
		In India, there were these spontaneous electrical fires erupting where people would be sitting in their house and all of a sudden the refrigerator would burst into flames or something.
		In Sicily, and there were other types, slightly different types of fires in India where they don't have refrigerators.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So is the speculation that when this really got underway, that kind of thing would become the norm, things bursting in flames?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, if there was a lot of static in the air generated, because these effects all happened during periods where there were apparently the magnetic field above these areas was weak, and also there were solar storms taking place, and high levels of electromagnetic energy were reaching the ground.
		But it gets much worse than that.
		If there was a gamma-ray burst, every part of the planet that it touched would be sterilized.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about if you had a flare the size of the one we had a couple of years ago?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, that one, you'll recall, actually exceeded the measurement capabilities of the specific satellite design to watch the sun.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It was by far the largest solar flare ever recorded, and if a flare of that wouldn't really take a flare that big.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		We'd be in danger from even an R-class solar flare or a thermal mass ejection if it was directed at the Earth without a magnetic field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Huh.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, we wouldn't need a big one like that.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		You could forget.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have B, C, M, X, and then put your head between your legs kind of.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		No, if a really big one like that happened, you really could forget it.
		I mean, that would be that.
		We would be finished.
		I think there would be a megadeth on the planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that the birds, the butterflies, the weird things that we're chronicling now in modern day really do indicate, is that part, is that a symptom of the magnetic field beginning to get fluxy and changey and getting ready to move?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because their ability to migrate is dependent upon a little bit of magnetite that's in the brain.
		All creatures have this.
		We have it, by the way.
		It's located quite near the pineal gland in the brain.
		We don't really know whether or not it has any function in our brains.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I bet it does.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		When this happens, we're liable to find out that it does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then if the polls flipped, migratory birds would migrate the other way?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I think there would be extinctions among those species probably that have committed themselves to the magnetic field being this particular direction.
		I'm not so sure that they would.
		It would depend if they ended up being sent to places that were viable, their migrations might continue.
		But those migratory animals, the migrations all came up in the last ice age or the last two ice ages when there were animals flying animals and some some creatures like elk and so forth that evolved migratory patterns to get away from the extremely harsh winters and their bodies made use of the Earth's magnetic field and if the magnetic field changes I don't think they're going to work right I wonder
art bell ▲ ● ▼		much of the world would work right and uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		is that something somebody is studying somewhere i mean yet to do the best scientists know what would happen what would go wrong with our electronics and uh...
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		maybe would be computers in ourselves we would we would have a complete electronic failure uh...
		that we would uh...
		every exposed electronic device would be would be overwhelmed and you would have power grids going down worldwide because there would just be too much electromagnetic energy being poured in into them from above.
		This would not survive even a few hours without a magnetic field.
		If there was 24 hours without a magnetic field, the world would be in complete chaos.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In your view, Whitley, here's an interesting question for everybody and you too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If everything got wiped out, let's say we remained alive, but all computers, all records, all control, all electronics, all communications suddenly ceased, would we survive it?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, back in the in the toward the end of the Roman Empire, people were sick and tired of taxes.
		They were sick and tired of all of the order of the laws, etc.
		and so forth.
		And they kind of walked away from it.
		200 years later, there were no roads.
		There was not even any money in use.
		Most people couldn't read or write.
		The lifespan had declined from 45 years to 26 years.
		It was not fun.
		And that would be the sort of thing that was on the cards if we had a collapse that profound and that sudden, because we would not have the infrastructure available to fix it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We would not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Clearly, countries like the United States that are, I guess we're the most dependent on technology of any country on Earth, we would be the hardest hit.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		And Europe, yeah, we would be.
		Absolutely.
		Ironically, the people that would be the least affected would be like in Africa where they probably wouldn't even miss, unless there was a gamma-ray burst that hit the planet, they wouldn't even know it was happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe that would be the weak inheriting, Whitley.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Maybe, the meek inheriting the Earth, yeah.
		The question of when it will happen, of course, one of the troubles with the scientific community is nobody wants to say anything that's too controversial.
		It will draw too much attention to them.
		Because then their careers are on the line.
		It's the most unfortunate thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, my career's on the line.
		If I don't end this one, I'm supposed to, and I'm supposed to now.
		So, hey, buddy, your website is unknowncountry.com.
		Dreamland era Saturdays, right?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It's on Saturdays from 1 o'clock Pacific, and it is, it's really keeping on, keeping on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and you do the same thing.
		You keep on keeping on.
		Take care, my friend.
		You too.
		Widley Striever, my co-author.
		I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		Subscribe to the Afterdark newsletter online at www.coastocoastam.com.
		Just click through the orange stripe to the secure server.
		Oh, I am.
		It's all here to be here.
		Oh, I am.
		Some velvet morning when I'm straight, I'm gonna open up your gate and maybe tell you about me how you gave me life.
		How she made it in Some velvet mornin'when I was trained Flowers growing on a hill Dread and flies and dive for deals Learn from
		us very much Look at us but do not touch Fedra is my name Do talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east to the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west to the Rockies, call ART at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is indeed.
		This is going to be a Really interesting program.
		That's good music to sort of launch it.
		I don't know why.
		I just feel it is.
		Let's think about music.
		It establishes a kind of mood for what's about to happen or what just did happen.
		And that's why Bumper Music is so much fun.
		Anyway, we're going to talk about technology tonight.
		Or maybe it's an anti-technology show.
		I'm not sure.
		But you know how wrapped into technology I am.
		It's all around me.
		My whole life is technology.
		And that's not an exaggeration.
		Anyway, one of my best friends here in town runs the best internet company here in town.
		I guess I could give its name, couldn't I?
		Air Internet.
		And so as a result, you know, running a company that is an internet provider, he's incredibly immersed in technology all the time.
		That's his business.
		Computers every minute of his day.
		He's the kind of guy who goes around with a headphone, earpiece combination, and is talking on the cell phone all the time.
		It's totally immersed in technology.
		He and I run various experiments.
		We're techno buddies.
		And he just got back from Bermuda.
		Bermuda is a very unusual place.
		It doesn't allow VHF radio, so you can't take a radio with you.
		While there is internet, barely was he able to connect with the regulated situation they've got going.
		There's something about Bermuda, and you're only allowed one car if you live in, if you're a Bermudan, you can only own one car.
		Can't have that many on the island.
		And they've got import taxes and restrictions and all kinds of things.
		And it's like he suffered for a whole week.
		Paul suffered.
		And he got back tonight, just about an hour before the program.
		I said, hey, Paul, how'd you do?
		Well, it was all right.
		We had fun.
		I said, well, how long was the withdrawal?
		And he said, well, it was just the first day.
		He said, I went nuts the first day, and then I was all right.
		And I said, well, I don't know.
		I don't know if I believe that.
		I don't know how you decide how you're going to buy a book.
		I read the inside cover, you know, when I go to the bookstore, and this one really sounds good.
		What happens when a graduate of MIT, the bastion of technological advancement, and his bride move to a community so very primitive in its technology that even Amish groups consider it antiquated?
		Eric Brendi conceives a real-life experiment to see if, in fact, all our cell phones, widescreen TVs, and SUVs have made life easier and better, or whether life might be preferable without them.
		By turns, the query narrows down to a single question.
		What is the least we need to achieve the most?
		This in mind, the Brendes ditch their car, their stove, refrigerator, running water, everything else motorized or hooked up to the grid in any way, and begin an 18-month trial run, one that dramatically changes the way they live, I guess, and proves entertaining and surprising to readers.
		So this is the name of the book, Better Off, Flipping the Switch on Technology by Eric Brendi.
		And Eric is here, and in a moment we shall talk to him.
		This should be quite an experience.
		If you're half as involved in technological stuff as I am, you might want to listen very carefully.
		Well, here's what I was really supposed to read.
		Eric Brendi has degrees from Yale, Washburn University, and MIT.
		He's received a citation of excellence from the National Science Foundation and a graduate fellowship from the Mellon Foundation in the Humanities.
		His book, Better Off, Flipping the Switch on Technology, describes the journey that he and his wife took from a fast-paced life of high technology at MIT Evol to a richer, more leisurely and savory existence, living in the country with an old-order Anabaptist group that he calls the Mennonites.
		Mennamites.
		Mennamites.
		That's it.
		Here they learned practical knacks and principles of technological selection that they now apply in their urban home.
		The Brendes have recently relocated to Old Town section of St. Louis, I guess, where Eric makes his living as a soap maker and rickshaw driver.
		A soap maker and a rickshaw driver, really?
	Yes.
	Hi, Eric.
	Welcome to the program.
unidentified		Well, thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so we're going to go into country here with you that I just probably am completely unprepared to go into.
		I live in an absolute, you know, as you might imagine, somebody in my business, an absolute technological connected life.
		And I take it, I mean, describe for me what you were living in before you took the plunge.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, if you had seen me in my early days where I grew up at Topeka, Kansas, you would have probably found me most of the time lying around the house watching television or lying around the house reading science fiction.
		And Isaac Asimov was my favorite science fiction writer.
		I looked forward to a future of almost complete roboticization of human life, and I could hardly wait to float around in the little glass bubbles.
		And so I would say I was technologically as fanatical, if not more so, than you are, at one point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we could debate that.
		That's not the purpose of the program.
		The purpose of the program is to find out why a man, seemingly obliviously happy doing what you just described, would even consider chucking it all.
		I mean, what influence caused you to even begin thinking about this?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, as I grew older and got into my middle and later teens, I think I did start to become disillusioned.
		And although I can't really pinpoint an exact date, it might have been possibly the time my father went out and got one of the first word processors ever made.
		And of course, the idea of this was to save the time and trouble of writing and make it a lot faster and easier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		But my dad spent so much time with that device, I almost never saw him again.
		And there's something kind of eerie about having your father physically present in the room with you, but mentally a million miles away.
		And I think, although I was not able to articulate it to myself at the time, for myself, I think I began to have the first inkling that maybe our time-saving devices are not so much saving time as gobbling up our time and maybe even gobbling us up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you'd have to say, I'd have to respond.
		yes to that they do gobble up our time uh...
		but they also create a different i mean it's a it's completely different lifestyle from what you This began for you very young, and kind of with the loss of your father, in a way, right?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Possibly.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think that that was something that disaffected me, not only against technology, perhaps, but maybe against just life in general.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that was at about what age, please?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'd say that would maybe 13, 14, somewhere in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But, okay, here's the part I don't get.
		If you were forming all of that even then, you ended up at MIT and so forth and so on.
		So obviously it hadn't taken root or even close to it or you never could have jumped into that technological education.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have to admit that I went to MIT not as a proponent of technology at all, but as a subversive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whoa, whoa, what a word.
		Wait a minute.
		A subversive?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I was trying to infiltrate the technological establishment in order to do my part to overthrow it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
		Really?
		This sounds like the Unibomber minus the bombs.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, the sabotage I was trying to do was at the level of ideas, not actually physically destroying things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you sabotage ideas specifically?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's where my experiment comes in, the one you described at the beginning of the program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		I set out to try to get some concrete data to do my own personal experiment.
		And that's what most of the book is about.
		I was very lucky.
		I was kind of swimming around at MIT at first.
		I won't say that I had everything fell together at once.
		But on one of the trips from Topeka to MIT, I took a Greyhound bus.
		And by the way, I took it even though the airline price was the same in order to walk the talk.
		For me, it was a very primitive form of technology.
		And I kind of gritted my teeth, took the bus, and actually enjoyed it.
		But the reason I mention it is that partway through the country on this trip, a man with a big black hat got on the bus and solid black colored clothing, and I assumed he was Amish.
		The wheels started turning in the back of my head, and I sidled over to him the next time we had a rest stop and struck up a conversation.
		And before you know it, I was getting along great with this guy.
		I was very surprised.
		He was actually much friendlier than I was expecting.
		But I got more than I bargained for.
		This gentleman came from one of those rare Old Order Anabaptist sects.
		And I don't specify its name in the book because I'm trying to protect their identity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not necessary.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		I nickname him the Minnamites.
		But anyway, a very rare group, one of a handful, that not only prohibits the use of electricity and motor vehicles, which most Amish groups do, but also did not allow the use of any motorized or automated equipment whatsoever.
		And this is very different from most Amish groups.
		You may not realize this, but most Amish groups use a whole lot of machinery that's motorized.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you're right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm really not aware of the extent of their abstention or whatever.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		It's gotten so prevalent that in Lancaster County they can do with a substitute device almost everything that we can do with our electronic devices.
		They have figured out a way to hook up pressurized air hoses and in their kitchen they can use different appliances on pressurized air which they plug into a socket.
		It's just not an electric socket.
		It's a pressurized air hose socket.
		So anyway, it's very extensive among the Amish to use chainsaws, pumps, stationary farming equipment.
		And for most Amish, the people in this group, the man that I met, were so far back in the past that it would be like for us going back to what most Amish are like.
		So it was a very unusual group.
		And my heart went pure Pat when I found out about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he would be described then as sort of a radical Amish.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		And yeah, this group, they would trace their origins back to the early 1500s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe a better word should have been fundamentalist.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wouldn't call them a fundamentalist, not really, because I associate that with Bible-thumping Christians.
		And this group, they're very undemonstrative.
		I mean, they're not trying to go out and get converts, they're just trying to lead a simple and wholesome life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I just meant fundamentalists within the mainstream structure of people of a like mind.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		Yeah.
		Yeah, they did go, their way of thinking, certainly, they were going to the fundamentals and to the roots of their beliefs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I'm curious, he obviously, as he talked to you, he intrigued you in some way with this very strict lifestyle.
		And how did he do it?
		What do you say that, I don't know, drew you?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know if it was anything specific because it was a very sketchy conversation, but there's something about the twinkle in his eye and his somewhat jovial manner that made me think, wow, this is something intriguing here, and I want to find out more.
unidentified		I want to know why this man is so happy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everybody knows you should be frowning and concerned and up to the minute and hypertensive and all that, right?
		Yes, yes.
		So probably his calm good humor struck you as so unusual that you wanted to know where it came from.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, definitely.
		Yeah, he did not give me the closed-off feeling at all.
		He seemed to be glad that I was interested in what they were doing.
		And that was another thing that made this group unusual when we got there is that indeed, unlike a lot of Amish groups, they were open to outsiders.
		And they had several outsider families had come in and joined them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think the reason, I'm sure you investigated to some degree that the other outside groups who were with these folks had made the decision, did it correlate with yours?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		To some extent, yes.
		And to some extent, no.
		There had to be a very strong religious dimension for people to actually join the group.
		I mean, formally join.
		We never formally joined because, of course, we were there to look at the technology and how that affected their way of life, and only for a limited time were we there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or the lack of it would be more to the point, I guess.
		I mean, how simply do they honestly live?
		You said no machines, no computers, no TV, no telephones, no how far did it go?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, they didn't have indoor plumbing.
		Now, that was one thing that I wasn't that interested in that particular thing because I didn't view that as an automated labor-saving device so much.
		But they didn't have indoor plumbing.
		They didn't have, as you say, telephones.
		They didn't have automobiles.
		They didn't have refrigerators.
		Of course, none of the other electric kitchen appliances.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		No vacuum cleaners.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		Okay.
		Well, that's pretty radical.
		And so what do they do to entertain themselves?
		I mean, what does a typical Minnemite family do?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a good question.
		And, you know, I mean, that gets to the whole heart of everything.
		One of the things that I found is that it's often very hard to distinguish between what is work and what is recreation, or what is work and what is festivity.
		And to understand why I say that, maybe I should get to maybe the central feature of my findings, if you will.
		And that is, as we talk here, would you like me to maybe read something from the book to give you a taste of it?
		Or would you rather just describe the book?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, just describe it.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, what happens is when you're doing the manual labor, which of course is very prevalent when you don't have automated machinery, and you're doing the manual labor for your daily bread or your livelihood, whether it be in the house, in the kitchen, or out in the fields, what happens is manual labor has this curious property of becoming self-automating.
		You start to forget you're doing it.
		And if you're working with other people, you start to talk.
		You start to enjoy each other's company.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I suppose.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		And they have a saying, many hands make work light.
		And it's very true.
		When you get together with people, you forget you're even working.
		And look at the, by the way, the economy here.
		You're getting exercise, and you're not even aware of it because you're talking.
		You're getting physical exercise that your body needs, and you're also getting a kind of social experience which your social self needs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I suppose all of that's true.
		Hold on one moment, Eric.
		We're here at the bottom of the hour.
		Eric Brendy is my guest.
unidentified		And he just...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty interesting.
		Anyway, imagine it.
		All of that that you use now every day in your life, gone.
		Just flat gone.
unidentified		Just flat gone.
		Just flat gone.
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach ART by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		It is indeed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This man walked away with his wife, I might add.
		We're going to ask about that.
		Walk away from everything, Eric Brundy.
		He's here, and he went to live with this group called the Minnemites who virtually don't have anything.
		I mean, nothing that you and I use.
		No internet, no refrigerator, no flushing John.
		That one's really over the top.
		But I mean, all the rest of it, too, everything that you use and do just about every day, they didn't have any of that stuff.
		And he went and lived there with his wife.
		that we're about to ask about We're going to withhold the name of the village that Eric and his wife went to, but we are going to learn some more about this village.
		And one thing I really want to ask you, Eric, my wife, I'm asking on behalf of my wife, by the way, your attitude about technology and so forth is pretty apparent, maybe even antagonistic or worse toward technology.
		But I mean, when you made the decision finally to do this, did you go to your wife and say, listen, hon, I got this idea.
		Or did you, how did you, how did you approach that?
		Or was she already in every step of the way toward this decision?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was a lot dicier than even that because she was only my fiancé.
		And I made sure that she had completely fallen in love with me before I broke to her the news of my research interests, at least in detail.
		She did know something about my interest in the Amish, and she said, oh, I've always wanted to live on a farm.
		But by a farm, she meant a three-acre suburban lot in Amber, which is a suburb about 30 miles west of Boston.
		The train did take her right by Walden Pond, though, I guess.
		That was her idea of simple living.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you just made sure that she'd die for you before you popped it.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess it was, you know, it just sort of happened that way.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Maybe it was conveniently timed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was her life like prior to your popping this question?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		She worked as an accountant in downtown Boston.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		And she used computers to manage several office buildings and keep their books.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I bet.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		And she had a tenth-story office with a little window overlooking the utility shaft, and she had one potted plant in her office to remind her of the country.
		So in one sense, she was primed for a change.
		She had so much stress from her job and from the monotony of it and from grinding those numbers day in, day out, that she actually was grinding her teeth away, and she had to have an orthodontic kind of harness put on her mouth at night so she wouldn't grind her teeth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we do lead really stressful lives, don't we?
		That is part of the, I guess, what you buy when you buy into all this technology.
		That's what you buy.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, and I think that in my wife's case, or she was my fiancé at the time, it shows that the lack of physical exercise is actually stressful in a way because she couldn't move, her body had to make up for that by grinding something.
		And I think that, you know, today they talk about carpal tunnel syndrome.
		One of the factors behind that is the lack of physical resistance that a keyboard offers your fingers.
		I think our bodies and our fingers crave to be used and the fingers crave to squeeze something.
		And if they can't, they go bonkers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm thinking about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the keyboard's easy, but you think we're meant to get physical.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it's kind of like, I think of an analogy of, you know, whole wheat bread.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		It used to be that they took all of the bran out of bread so it would be white and fluffy and easier to chew.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		And then they discovered that, no, our bodies need a certain amount of fiber and roughage for our digestive system to work right.
		And so they put the fiber back in.
		And I'm saying, why take all the physical exercise out of our daily tasks?
		Why not leave that in as well?
		Because we need that squeezability in our hands.
		We need to work our hearts a little more.
		And if you take it out, then you're just going to have to go back and recover it.
		And that explains a lot of the lost time in our modern life.
		We're Always playing catch-up.
		We're having to do these self-imposed exercise regimens on top of our daily work in front of the computer.
		And we're having to create quality time to make up for the lack of real-life social interaction when we're in our cubicles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Our cubicles.
		How antagonistic toward, I don't know, things like television and computers and the internet, that sort of thing, how really antagonistic are you toward it?
		Well, I would say being honest.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Very, because I don't have a computer or a TV or a VCR in my house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think these things are evil?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		No, not in themselves.
		I mean, they're not bad in themselves, but I think that especially any kind of device where you sit in front of a screen and see only a two-dimensional image while your body is motionless is a very inefficient use of your time.
		Not to say that you can't achieve certain things that might be necessary and valuable during that time, but it's a very inefficient use of your time because very little is happening.
		Your eyes are just flickering a little bit.
		Your fingers are twitching a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there is input, though.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if you're on the Internet, conceivably, you know, unless you're cruising porn or some such, then otherwise you may be getting educated or I'd say that that's sort of single-dimensional as opposed to a kind of an experience that's many-layered.
		And it's the many-layered experience that we found working with these people we call the minimites, where you have the physical exercise at the lowest level, the lowest layer that becomes unconscious.
		And then you have the social experience, another layer, and then you're experiencing nature.
		You're feeling the breeze.
		You're hearing the birds at another level.
		And then you might be sort of half pleasantly daydreaming.
		So you have this multi-level, oh, and then you're exercising a certain amount of physical skill and know-how.
		So at several levels, your body and your mind are being gratified, they're being used.
		And it's a very compressed, much more efficient use, I think, of time so that at the end of the day, you don't say, oh, now I've got to run to the gym to do my workout, or now I've got to hunt down my kids so I can create some quality time with them, because you've been getting that, you've been getting it all along.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, with this attitude, which, you know, I'm not positioned to judge.
		I guess maybe it's fine.
		But you did, after all, degree from Yale, Washburn University, and MIT.
		Now, I can't imagine that you made it through to a degree with your attitude about these things because you would have had to been using these things to a great extent to even make it through.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Actually not.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		I typed all my papers on a manual typewriter, even through graduate school.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And it happened that I had been a pianist growing up.
		I played the piano, and so I was used to that physical resistance, and I was pretty dexterous with my fingers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You must have read a lot?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Read a lot.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you mean, but reading a book?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, studying, as in studying.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		But my body really rebelled against it.
		I got cabin fever in a library.
		I never really savored that.
		It was kind of like being on a bed of nails for me.
		I was restless.
		I was always restless in graduate school.
		And I really was eager to get out there and do my field work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, field work.
		Let's delve into field work a little bit.
		Maybe I'm going out on a limb here, but it seems I'm getting the vibration that your attitude about technology was so radicalized, stick with me on this, that you were out to perhaps sabotage it, in some way stop the march forward of civilization altogether and to turn the clock way back.
		Is that an exaggeration?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would say it's just a little bit of a mischaracterization in that I don't see progress as something moving in a linear way.
		And that, you know, if you go back in time, it's worse, and if you go forward in time, it's automatically better.
		I think that there have been periods of time in history when culture was in a state of balance and harmony, and we've had periods of time in history when it was very discordant.
		And I'm just aiming for a balance.
		Whether you call it backwards or forwards, it doesn't really matter.
		And I just think it's pretty apparent that we're out of balance right now, that we are spending more time meeting the needs of technology than our own needs.
		And that we're chasing, running around, trying to always play catch-up because our technological responsibilities seem to outweigh our own personal responsibilities so often.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm trying to digest that and see if you could in any way be right.
		In other words, we're becoming a slave.
		We're becoming a slave to this stuff.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you have a car, for example, is not just a neutral tool to achieve your end.
		It's a complex, energy-consuming being.
		It has needs of its own.
		It has a need for fuel.
		It has a need to occupy space.
		It has a need to be maintained.
		And it's quite expensive.
		Its first need is to be purchased.
		And that's quite expensive.
		And all these things take a lot of time because we have to earn a lot of money to pay for them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Try living in L.A. without one.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and then you'd spend a lot of time just sitting in the car, too.
		One time, somebody asked Thoreau, Henry David Thoreau, why he didn't take the train from Concord to Boston.
		And he said, hey, it's just faster to walk.
		And what he meant by that was by the time he earned the money to pay for the train ticket, he would have already been there.
		And then he would have also gotten some exercise on the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I guess.
		I'm going to be a hard sell, I'll tell you.
		A very hard sell.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Keep trying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		I mean, keep picking away at me and see if you can find a weakness in my argument.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not really trying to find a weakness in your argument.
		I'm more trying to understand why it's better.
		I think that's important for me to understand why the kind of lifestyle...
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		We were there for 18 months.
		Although, I mean, at the end, we were torn.
		We tried to think of a way to stay.
		Really?
		But for various reasons, there were many factors hanging in the balance.
		We ended up tipping towards not staying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you were in big trouble, I mean, in a way, because you were going to write a book, which you have written.
		I guess that was in the plan the whole time, wasn't it?
		Or was it not?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, it sort of was in the back of my mind.
		I wrote a series of articles while I was there too that were published in various magazines.
		From that, once I had amassed those, then I thought I had enough for a book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that had to be somewhat technological as you launched your yourself into that thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Word processors, no?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, eventually I did get a word processor.
		I don't have a computer, although I write out the stuff longhand, and I do put on a word processor.
		But, you know, let me say, too, that as wary as I am of technology and specifically our modern labor-saving devices, I never say that any particular thing is bad in itself.
		And all of them do have a legitimate use.
		I can't think of it.
		Even a nuclear bomb, if you take the scenario in that one movie about, was it, Armageddon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		There was this asteroid coming towards Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		And that was the only way that anyone could think of to stop it.
		And that might happen someday in the future.
		So even a nuclear bomb has possibly a healthy use that would benefit mankind.
		So I just think it's the overuse or the misuse that's really detrimental.
		And it's so prevalent that I can't sound like I have a very negative attitude towards technology.
		But I think it's more of the attitude that something good can be made very bad through excess, like gold under the King Midas touch.
		Gold is a great thing, but if everything you touch turns to gold, that's not a good thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think would happen if suddenly this country, for whatever reason, just go out on a limb here and imagine it suddenly embraced everything the Minnamites did and it threw off all its technology, a country as dependent on it as we are, but we all somehow came to this great understanding of the better way to live, the one you've been describing tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think this country would survive?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, if it were sudden, no.
		I mean, it would be a cataclysm because everything would fall to pieces.
		Technology is the pillar that supports our society.
		If you pull the pillar out right now, it would cave in.
		But, on the other hand, if there were a gradual change in consciousness, I do think that our economy is simply the expression of a multitude of individual economic transactions.
		And as individuals gradually change their habits and their spending habits and how they get around and what kinds of technologies they use, then the economy would just change accordingly.
		I mean, the economy exists to serve us, not we, the economy.
		And so I think that's a more plausible scenario because I don't really think that suddenly everybody after reading my book is going to rush out and throw away all their technology, as much as I might fantasize about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you would like that.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, I'd have to say, I mean, I might fantasize about it, but I don't think that realistically I would want it because, as I said, it would be cataclysmic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cataclysmic.
		But if a few people do it, that'd be all right.
		What is it in the Mennomites' religion that mandates to them, apparently, that they live in this manner?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Very good question.
		Well, as I mentioned, the Mennonites are part of the larger Anabaptist movement that dates back to the early 1500s.
		And there is a couple of things that go together to make them predisposed to less technology.
		One is that unlike other Protestant religions, they place a real premium on community interaction, and they always have.
		In their theology, the salvation of an individual is partly dependent on the salvation, on the efforts of the group.
		You're partly accountable for your neighbor's salvation.
		So they became very sensitive, especially in modern times, to technologies that undermined the cohesion of their community, such as the automobile, which spreads people out and dilutes the quality of your interaction with your next-door neighbor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why couldn't you argue that the automobile allows more interaction among individuals that otherwise geographically would be prevented from interacting?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think you could possibly argue that, but what first comes to mind is that you can only enlarge the radius of your mobility by diluting the quality of your interaction.
		You have a less intense but broader kind of interaction.
		And I think that's the intensity of the interaction among neighbors, next-door neighbors, that's so critical to the vitality of these communities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Many groups who are radical religiously or otherwise have an attitude about women that generally is fairly prehistoric from modern points of view.
		They think of women as walking one step behind, barefoot and pregnant.
		Is that in the Minnemite thinking?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think if you looked at them, first of all, first I should say that it's hard to generalize amongst these Anabaptist sects, and some of them are much worse in that respect than others.
		Some are more enlightened than others.
		And there's a whole patchwork of these groups.
		But the group that I was with, I would say that perhaps from a distance, a modern observer might say, oh, this is Antediluvian.
		These are the stereotypical male-female colours of the city.
unidentified		Easy, you don't come easy, you know it don't come easy Don't you say you choose if you wanna see the blues And you know it don't come easy You don't have to shout or leave a bow You can even play them easy Get up out the past
		and all your sorrow If the future won't last, it will soon be your tomorrow To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time cover line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west to the Rockies, call ARC at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country spread access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		is an eric brindy and by the way it's home how much more technological can you i'd like to I mean, I'm just absolutely fascinated with this because I'm struggling, really struggling, to get it.
		And I don't exactly get it yet.
		I mean, why would anybody, anybody throw away everything that's modern?
		The internet, television, radio, even electricity, light, I mean, all the very basic things that we used to live today.
		Just totally toss them and start a completely different lifestyle.
		And maybe I've got one answer to that myself.
		anyway back to eric randy and all of this in a moment so Absolutely fascinating.
		I really mean that.
		And you would have to understand the lifestyle that I lead.
		I mean, I am absolutely 100% admittedly immersed in technology.
		In fact, tomorrow night, I just can't wait to tell you about something that's going on in the hambans.
		These mysterious, long-delayed echoes that cannot possibly be because radio goes at the speed of light.
		So you can't have an echo that comes back to you 20 seconds later.
		It's impossible.
		But let me tell you, it's happening.
		And so I'm dying to tell you about that.
		That's the kind of thing I'm immersed in, right?
		And my wife, well, Ramona spends a lot of time these days watching her favorite reality TV series on the net streaming video, Big Brother.
		And, you know, so we're just so deeply involved in the technological world that you might as well cut off our right arm if you took all that away from us.
		And so I just, you know, you went into a world that I can't even comprehend, Eric.
		Listen, what would you say are the three key inventions of the last century that have radically impacted America?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		The automobile, the computer, and the television.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Huh.
		Really?
		In that order?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, probably more like the automobile, the television, and the computer in chronological order.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I suppose, yes.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		I think those three alone, if we scale back drastically on those, I think that so many social problems would just go away on their own, and so many of our personal psychological problems or problems of lack of contentment of various kinds would also go away on their own.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		So much of the time, it's hard to trace the symptoms that we experience in day-to-day life to the actual technologies that may be at the root of those symptoms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old are you?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		43 now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		43.
		Well, as you get older, Eric, life seems to speed up.
		I'm not exactly sure what it is, you know, what that's all about, but these days, and especially with the technology, I do acknowledge that it causes the days to blur together, sort of, in the sense that they're so filled and active with all of these things that you're sort of denouncing that they blur together.
		And I wonder if you go live the Minnamite life like you did, whether life slows down.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, very definitely.
		And when you take your time, each moment holds so much more.
		If you're speeding along using technology, your experience is kind of thin and blurry, just as you said.
		Yes.
		And I wonder if, you know, when we all get to our deathbeds, what's going to flash before our eyes?
		Is it just going to be this incoherent blur?
		Is it going to be a series of reruns from I Love Lucy?
		Or is it going to be something Real, something from a real experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I think you're probably right.
		I doubt that the last time you were on Google will flash before your eyes.
		You're going to consider perhaps the very rare moments of life, living this technological life, that had a lot of social interaction or, I don't know, important moments in life one way or the other.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		I would hope so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would think that would be the case.
		Okay, so let's investigate this lifestyle a little more.
		What about basics like medical insurance, medical technology?
		Well, suppose, for example, you suddenly had cancer.
		Does a Minnamite say, well, it's God's will.
		Or does a Minnamite go to the hospital and get radiation treatments?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, you'd probably have to distinguish between what a minimite might do and what I might do.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		And I wouldn't necessarily endorse what a given minnamite might do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would the average minimite do?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		I think that they often waste a little time in a case like that and say they're going to look around for a natural cure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		And I knew one, well, not a minimite, but I knew an Amish lady who did that, and she wasted time, and then by the time she finally got around to what she really needed, it was too late.
		And that, of course, is in keeping with a very radical minimization of technology.
		I'm not quite so radical, because my whole complaint is not that we should get rid of technology so much.
		It's just that our technology isn't interfering with the good life.
		And the point is to achieve the good life.
		So when technology promotes the good life, I'm all in favor of it.
		But there is kind of an Achilles tendon here.
		If you're trying to live a simple life with less technology, as we do, say, in St. Louis now, our health care costs and our insurance have become very burdensome.
		And for many people, it seems to prohibit them from trying to get off the treadmill.
		They think they need to earn the money to pay for the health insurance costs.
		But what I say is that the biggest component today of our high health insurance is our sedentary lifestyle.
		It's so unhealthy to be sitting all day at a computer or sitting in a car and not getting the exercise.
		That explains so much of our high costs of medical care, all the heart operations.
		They've now reclassified obesity to be an illness covered by Medicare.
		That all goes into the kitty and explains our high health insurance costs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but an argument could be made that we're living longer than ever before, that the average lifespan has increased, not decreased.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's due to medical innovation and, you know, I guess getting immunized against certain diseases, and that's all technological.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, but, you know, actually, if you look at it closely, and this is something I did while I was at MIT, the biggest reason why health, why lifespan has increased, it has to do with things more like sanitary water supply.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alrighty then?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sanitary water supply.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a technology that I think is fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I know, but you were telling me the Minnamites have got basically a hole in the ground.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, they use springs or wells or cisterns for water supply.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But, I mean, still, that's a brutal way to live.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, maybe you talked your wife into everything else, but when you took her there to live with the Minnamites and she found out it was basically a hole in the ground, how did she handle that?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, the spring water that we got was very good.
		It was wonderfully tasty, and it was perfectly sanitary.
		I think when you run into really serious problems with drinking water, it's oftentimes in cities.
		That's why typhoid 100 years ago, 150 years ago, was concentrated in industrialized cities because you had large amounts of people working in these factories and they didn't have good enough water and there was raw sewage overflowing.
		And that was actually a bad technological side effect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, but you're still not telling me how your wife reacted to the facilities being that away.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you mean like the indoor plumbing situation?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, one thing that was a little different from our house, our house was a little bit different from the ones around us.
		It was a cottage that the Mennamite farmer next door had just bought from English people, namely American outsiders like us, and it had a toilet in it.
		We didn't have running water because we didn't have the electricity turned on, and it was run by an electric pump.
		But we did have a toilet, and there was no outhouse.
		So what we did was we would pump water up from the cistern outside and use that water in a bucket to flush the toilet.
		Now, there's a whole chapter in my book about this.
		And our neighbors felt sorry for us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They felt sorry for you.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Our Minnamite neighbors, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		This illustrates an important point.
		It's not we were going to too much work to have to pump the water up from the outside because most of them had indoor pumps or they had water that flowed directly into the house from a spring, sometimes pumped by what they called a ram pump, which is a non-motorized pump that converts the downward pressure of water into upward lift.
		So you can get for every 10 feet that goes downhill, you can get 100 feet of upward lift.
		And so our next door Minnamite farmer generously offered to install a ram pump so that we could get water from our spring directly in the faucet and into the toilet in our house.
		And that astounded me.
		I was resisting at first because I thought that would compromise my experiment.
		But then I realized that many or most of the other minnamites in the community use that kind of method.
		And so that illustrates an important point, that these people were not about trying to create back-breaking labor or joint-wrenching kind of bucket lifting and hauling.
		They saw that there was an important place for certain kinds of labor-saving technology.
		So there again, I guess the point is to enhance life using the right selection of technology, not simply to get rid of technology altogether and suffer the consequences, whatever they may be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But even the Minnamites would have to have dealed with the outside world for various reasons, for basic trade and getting hold of things they need.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There would have been payments and probably, I don't know, any household has to run on some kind of budget, maybe mortgages, maybe rent, that sort of thing, right?
unidentified		Minimal things.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, these people certainly interacted with the outside world, and that did create certain kinds of tensions and difficulties.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would think so.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Because the biggest problem in that community was to coordinate produce sales with grocery stores, because these people, of course, grew a lot of fruits and vegetables, and the grocery stores in the area loved them because they were the best around and very fresh and pretty much organic.
		But the problem was to coordinate the shipments, because these are large grocery store chains, and they were on a timetable.
		And so the only way to do that was by telephone.
		And there was a big discussion in the community because it was getting out of hand.
		Although the Minnemites did not have telephones in their homes, they did use telephones at payphones, at convenience stores, sometimes neighbors' phones that they would just pay the neighbor to use the phone as if it were a payphone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was going to ask where they kept the evil instrument.
		So they just sort of used payphones or neighbors' phones when they had to.
		There was no other choice.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And that created tension, and there were discussions going on when I was there about whether it was a breach of a very closely held belief.
		Well, not that they believed, again, that telephones were evil in themselves, but that because people were running back and forth to use the telephone, it was becoming a kind of rat race.
		And they were always very critical of what they called the rat race.
		And they wanted a slow and leisurely pace.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got that.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		They were being infected by the high pressures and deadlines of the world outside of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Anyway, it settled out, I guess.
		Would this be a minimite headline in the paper?
		You know, phone use debated.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, if they had their own paper, which they didn't, but...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of paper am I talking about?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		And they all were pretty much there in person, although I was not allowed because I wasn't a member to discuss their personal intra-community affairs.
		But I did find out about it.
		Somebody leaked the information to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
		So leaked the information to you.
		So, hmm.
		They were aware that your mission there was not to become a believer and a new Mennonite, but to report on their lifestyle.
		They knew that.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, they knew that at some level I might be writing about them.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		I told them that, and that's why I promised them not to disclose their location or their names.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it they're worried about?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, vanity is one thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		They don't want to get a big head, and they're afraid that publicity will make them feel vain and proud about their way of life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		So I never even tell them I've written anything about them.
		They don't know about this book.
		I haven't told them about this book because they wouldn't want to know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they sure as hell won't be hearing it on the radio.
		So no problem there.
		But I suppose somebody might tell them.
		I mean, word might make it back that, my God, Eric's gone forth and he's written about us.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, indeed.
		And it does get back.
		And I found out indirectly that all of the articles I wrote about them while I was there got back to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, ho.
		Oh, ho.
		And how was that greeted, do you think?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, they pretended not to know.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		And I pretended that I didn't know they knew.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What a charade.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		But there again, they are striving not to feel vain and proud because they know pride goeth before a fall.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I'm sure the Mennonites look at and discuss and judge various technologies in the world.
		It must be like the latest new evil, awful thing to emerge.
		So what do you see emerging now that might potentially be dangerous to the continuation of our species, something Minnomites consider so dangerous?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, I kind of, to keep informed, I kind of go to, every once in a while, now this is my guilty pleasure.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		We don't have a television set, but we do occasionally go to the movies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		Okay.
		And I don't think that that's bad.
		I mean, it's an occasional form of entertainment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you're an besides, you weren't ever really a Mennonite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You had Mennonomite sympathies, maybe, but that's about it, right?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		But anyway, I find that the movies are more candid about what the future holds in technology than our modern uh scientists are.
		I really think that some of the um what I've seen in uh in the theaters um give us a pretty good glimpse of the way things may may happen in the future.
		Uh I think they're only reporting, they're only projecting into the future the kinds of research that are that's currently going on today, say at MIT.
		People like Marvin Minsky and Ray Kurzweil are actively looking forward to the time when we can download our minds into hardware.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have interviewed many people about that coming technology and gee, gee, Erica, I can only imagine how the Mennonites think about that.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, the critical thing about that to me is that Ray Kurzweil in his book, The Age of Spiritual Machines, which I read, equivocated at a critical juncture in his discourse,
		when it came to the point where he had to say whether our minds will actually survive the transition from our body into the computer, he kind of said, well, it doesn't matter just so long as it simulates our mind when it's on the other end.
		And I kind of thought, wait a minute, isn't that the all-important question?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, of course it is.
		Yes, of course it is.
		And I had no idea there was equivocation in that area.
		I thought that if you were to transfer your mind to a computer, why, you'd be in that computer fully aware.
		But Eric's saying, well, hey, maybe not.
		Maybe you'd just be part of a machine with no awareness at all.
		How bad would that be?
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		To talk with Art Bell, call Ma Wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach ART by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		it is indeed i wonder if the minimize i wonder if their ideas So I wonder if they've minimized their own flow of not just information, but ideas that flow from that information as well.
		So the whole topic is absolutely fascinating.
		Eric Brindy is my guest.
		He lived that way for 18 months.
		He'll be right back.
		The End In modern society, I know my friends and I are constantly debating what's going on in the world.
		You know, we've got the presidential race and a lot of sharp differences and things to talk about.
		And I wonder if being a minimite doesn't mean that to some degree you're minimized, your worldview is all local and no global.
		In other words, the flow of ideas must be very minimal indeed, Eric, isn't it?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think you've latched onto something there.
		And I wouldn't go necessarily to the extent that the Minnamites do in this regard.
		But let's look for a second, though, at the value of it.
		I think there's a drawback to being ultra-aware of everything around the globe, because you have a limited amount of time and a limited amount of awareness space in your brain.
		And it's going to inevitably take away from your awareness of your immediate local community to some extent.
		I mean, there's the paradox that most of us today know a whole lot more about what's happening on the other side of the globe than we do about what's happening with our next-door neighbors.
		And they certainly don't have this problem among the Mennonites.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's probably a true statement.
		We know more about the other side of the globe than we do about our own neighbors.
		I'm sure you're correct.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		And for them, it's the opposite.
		Of course, almost all the news is the local news, what's going on in the community.
		And I was surprised so often something might have occurred, like say in the morning, that maybe one time I bought a pig from the guy next door.
		Well, by noon, if I went to the general store, somebody there would say, oh, how do you like the pig you just bought?
		And they didn't have telephones.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe that went in place of a bulletin about the Middle East.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, you traveled fast.
		And you had to be careful, too, never to give the wrong impression about anything.
		There was a lady who was interested in converting and joining this community, she and her husband.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		And she made a very serious mistake very early on in her stay when a neighbor donated to her a jar of green beans that she'd canned to tide her over until they could get their own stuff going.
		And she made a comment that was a little bit disparaging about the flavor, that she preferred the flavor of the kind of green beans that she got in the cans at the store.
		And this, I don't know how it came out.
		I'm sure she didn't mean it to be not nice, but this spread like wildfire throughout the community, that our food was not good enough for her.
		And I don't think she ever quite recovered from that.
		She had to be really careful because things were, it was like a megaphone.
		You said something and it was broadcast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dude, was she driven from the community or something or what?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, there was just.
		She got off on the wrong foot.
		And I think that she, yeah, they eventually moved away within about four to six months.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This sounds like a very, very strict culture.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's, you know, and that's one reason why I don't think we would have ever conceived of joining in a formal sense and, you know, being baptized in the community.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, no, no.
		You said that when you left, there was a debate.
		You said when you left the community, there was...
		And what?
		Beginning to get a TV and a telephone, and I mean, obviously, if you're going to remain there to some degree, you couldn't become the enemy.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, we would have changed some things, but not major things.
		I think we ended up at the end of our stay getting a horse and buggy and selling our car.
		We could only afford it by selling our car.
		And we actually, this is kind of a radical thing, we did buy some land there as a hedge.
		My wife had some savings that we weren't using during our stay, but we were reserving them for a possible down payment.
		And we did buy a place as a hedge because it came up and we knew if we didn't buy it, it would slip out of our fingers, so we bought it as a hedge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean a minimite piece of land?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Yes, because one of them was relocating, and there was kind of a story behind that that I would take too long to go into.
		And so we were on the fence.
		There were several factors that went into the decision.
		We ultimately ended up leaving and selling the place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who would you say of the two of you, you and your wife, was more in favor of returning to some portion of the New World?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Ironically enough, even though the deal that I finally did strike with my wife before coming, now this is backtracking in time, before leaving Boston...
		The deal I'd struck with her was that if she agreed to join me for the first 18 months of our marriage, and we did get married just shortly before arriving, if she agreed to join me, then at the end of the stay, she would have a deciding vote in where we would move after that.
		But, ironically enough, she was the one who was more reluctant to leave than I was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She had become more minimized than you.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think she would have been perfectly happy to stay.
		But there is a wrinkle in the plot that I don't want to give away.
		There's a couple things that happen in the book that I don't want to reveal right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, let's talk about the book for a second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fair.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The book is Better Off, Flipping the Switch on Technology, and Two People, One Year, Zero Watts.
		Now, that's pretty cool.
		Zero Watts.
		Zero Energy Used and the Story of His Life for 18 Months, you know, his wife.
		And, you know, there are various ways to get this book.
		I've got a hardback copy of it right here.
		Eric is willing, he told me just before the program, he's willing to sign the book so you can get an autographed edition of this book.
		It's a very nice hardcover book by doing what we're about to tell you.
		We're going to give you some information here that will let you get a hardcover of the book signed, which is very valuable.
		How do they do that, Eric?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Just send me a check to my home address.
		And I have some books that I got from the publisher.
		My name is Eric Brendi, spelled B-R-E-N-D-E.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ought to be another E on the end of that, but all right.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Just one E at the end.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		And that's 2037 Allen Avenue.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		That's 2037 Allen spelled A-L-L-E-N Avenue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		And that's in St. Louis, Missouri.
		And the abbreviation for Missouri is M-O.
		and the zip is 63104.
		And the book is $24.95.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This check would be made out to you personally, right?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And I'd appreciate it if you could throw in $3 shipping, but if you're poor, I'll even send it to you without the shipping charge because I get it at a somewhat of a discount from the publisher.
		If you're in Missouri, I'm sorry, so what is the price of the book?
		$24.95.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		$24.95.
		And as long as you're poor, that would be it.
		But then otherwise, make it $27.95, right?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So $27.95 for most.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a pretty cool thing about the poor there.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		And if you're in Missouri, add 7.5% sales tax, but only if you live in Missouri.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Only if you live in Missouri.
unidentified		Right.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Otherwise, it's an export.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		No sales tax.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so if they live in Missouri, you will sign it and then walk it to their house, right?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Possibly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, you pretty much now, I mean, tonight must be a big exception.
		I mean, let's think about this, Eric.
		Not only are you on a telephone, but you're hooked up to me, which means that you're on satellite, which means that you're on 500 radio stations radiating all this RF, FM and AM alike, in the giant mass coverage of the United States, in fact, the whole world.
		Now, how does that strike you?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess my first response would be to say that you've got to go where the people are.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		If I'm going to reach people in technological society, I don't go to Fiji.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you've got to use technology to reach them.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Right.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		And again, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you finish the program tonight, are you going to go sit in the corner and whip yourself a little bit?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, we do have a telephone.
		And that's, you know, at the end of the book, I do mention there are some things that we would do differently than the Minnamites because it was an experiment to try out what they did and see what would be the right level of technology.
		Not to decide in advance that this must be the level of technology.
		And one of the things we do differently is we would have a telephone, and we do have a telephone.
		And one problem with not having a telephone was when we had our child, we did give birth to a child during the stay there in the first year.
		We had a real snafu because my car broke down and I had to retrieve the minimite midwife.
		And there's a harrowing account of what happens there.
		Do telephones come in handy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, they do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So your wife then is in labor and you're probably having a sort of a panic and you're thinking, I'm going to call a hospital or I'm going to call a doctor or something, right?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, we had prepared for this labor, of course.
unidentified		Of course.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		And we had not yet sold our car to buy the horse and buggy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where were you hiding your car?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		There was a shed in the back.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Camouflaged it back there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, but their eyes should have to see a car.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		But we had planned for this well in advance, that I would drive to the midwife's house, and she lived about six miles away on the very opposite side of the community.
		The problem was that my wife's labor was not very typical.
		It was a sudden, stabbing labor, and her contractions within a few minutes were only 30 seconds apart.
		And we were told, oh, they'll be 20 minutes apart for hours before they start to get closer together.
		Well, I went into a real panic and dove into my car, drove it too fast, hit a bump on the road, and unbeknownst to me, I triggered the fuel shutoff valve.
		I didn't know that had happened.
		All I knew is that my car would not go anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where were you on the way to?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, before going to the main midwife's house, my wife suggested in the middle of the throes of her labor that I go to the assisted midwife's house.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		She was only a mile away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that's what you were going to use the car for?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes.
		I used that car to go there, and I had to jog the last half a mile to that house and get in her horse and buggy.
		And it was in the middle of the night, and then come back.
		And luckily, my wife had not given birth yet, but that took about 10 minutes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, while you were sitting in that horse and buggy on the way back with the midwife, were you thinking, I wish to God I was in my car right now?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		See, so there's another use of modern transportation that I think is legitimate, rapid transit in cases of emergency.
		And that's one of the reasons why our life expectancy is higher than in ages past.
		When you had emergencies, medical emergencies, there was no rapid form of transportation, and people would just die before the doctor ever got there.
		So that's, you know, I will hand it to the automobile for that.
		That's a very important use.
		I'll concede that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		What about the Minnamites themselves in an exactly similar situation?
		I suppose a Minnamite would not have access to a car under any circumstances, so it would be horse and bugging no matter what, right?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's not quite true because in this community, if there were urgent reasons, they would allow somebody to borrow a neighbor's car, or at least not borrow the car, but ask the neighbor to take them somewhere and then, you know, make an offering, pay for the trip.
		Plus, there was a doctor in town who backed up the midwife, and that doctor had screened Mary, by the way, to make sure she was not a high-risk pregnancy.
		He also was available if you could phone him up, and then he could run out and to the rescue in his car.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's just amazing to even think about this for me.
		I can't say that I've properly absorbed enough, you know, I guess, I don't know, emotion from you about why this kind of a lifestyle would be in any way preferable so that I can understand it.
		Maybe it's so foreign to me and so, just so completely foreign, you know, that I can't imagine, I just can't imagine doing it, Eric.
unidentified		can't.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		And I The real test of whether it's for you or not is whether you feel a need for it.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		You may be perfectly contented within technological society.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am.
		I am, Eric.
		I can't deny it.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		I am.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		But I do think that there are lots of people out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many people do you think listening, from a percentage point of view this morning, who've listened to what you've said are thinking to themselves right now, you know, in my heart I know he's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've longed for this, and I would love to give it all, everything up, and go and live that life.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wouldn't be surprised if it were over half.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		When I was, for a couple years after we did this experiment, I was a cab driver in Boston, which is a diametric thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly is.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		And I did that because we decided we wanted to earn money so we'd have enough money to pay off a mortgage so we wouldn't have to carry a mortgage.
		Yes.
		And I just decided to just do whatever I could do, and that was the only thing I could do in Boston to make money.
		But anyway, the reason I mentioned that is that I'd often get people whose jobs were directly related to high-tech.
		People from MIT, people in the high-tech industry, venture capitalists in high-tech.
		And almost always, the more high-tech they were, the more wistfully they talked about the way of life I was describing.
		Because I'd just come back from it, and I would always be talking about it.
		And I thought that was rather curious.
		They seemed drawn to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Eric, did you ever read the Unibombers Manifesto?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		I did, actually.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		I did after the whole thing blew over, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I thought, crazy as he was with respect to the bombing and the killing and all of that, that parts of the manifesto somehow made sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you feel that way about it?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I thought that the main drawback with the manifesto was that it was written in a kind of a rigid student-y prose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		But if it had been written by somebody like Calvin Trillin, it could have been a very good book.
		By the way, one of the victims of the Unibomber wrote one of the blurbs for my bookjacket.
		His name is David Galernter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's a kidding.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		He loved the book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, you know what?
		I think I'm going to love it too.
		And maybe that'll lead to more of an understanding that I've been able to wrap my intellectual tentacles around tonight.
		I'm Art Bell and in the nighttime, this of course is Coast to Coast AM.
		We're going to turn it over to all of you in a moment.
unidentified		All we do is get lonely.
		Go one way and drive your side.
		Just talk to me.
		is me me me me me
		me me me Go down to the table, sunshine.
		Tide ring on the shoulder.
		The springtime away.
		Sounds big.
		When the people are playing with the talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is Area Code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west to the Rockies, call ARC at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is a really interesting reaction to Eric Brendi tonight is really interesting.
		A lot of extremely positive comments are coming in, you know, fast-blasted and otherwise.
		And people are assessing Eric as absolutely genuine and, you know, a true believer in what he's saying and what he did and all the rest of it.
		A lot of people are agreeing with it, too.
		Here's something from the back of the book: one of the reviews: This calm and unjudgmental account of living a little more lightly on the earth will do readers more good than a thousand of the self-help books crowding the bestseller lists.
		It'll make you think about your own life more than you've thought about it for years.
		And for that service, we can be deeply grateful to the talented Eric Brindi.
		and it goes on and on and that's kind of the for the most part now i i do have one here i want to read in in a moment by you'll never guess who okay
		Remember I told you about my friend Paul, who owns the internet distributor here in town, one of the best.
		Paul fastblasted me, and he makes a very good point that Eric might want to try and answer.
		I mean, the Minnamite lifestyle is one thing, but Paul fastblasts, hey, try being a Minnamite here in our Nevada desert heat.
		Without air, air conditioning, you could die.
		Now, there's an interesting conflict potentially, Eric.
		I mean, if you applied that lifestyle out here in the middle of the desert where I live, oh, about 20 miles from Death Valley, in the middle of the summer, you'd probably be deader than a doornail.
		And so the only alternative would be air conditioning or some facsimile thereof, or you're dead.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but you could say something very similar about what if the Mennonites had to live in northern Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I do say that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What if they did?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, but I don't think they have to.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if global population pressures get to the point where people will be forced to live in otherwise inhospitable areas, then of course, by all means, bring in the technology that will make that possible if we have to colonize other planets, for that matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But would your position be that the fact of the matter is, people don't have to live in Alaska.
		People don't have to live in the desert.
		People don't have to live in these places.
		They can darn well live someplace where a minnamite lifestyle works.
		Is that it?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, I think that's the short practical answer.
		But, I mean, if I really wanted to address what he's getting at, is, you know, if we have to live in a place that is very inhospitable to the human anatomy and we have no other option, then, of course, bring in the technology that'll make it habitable.
		If we ever have to colonize other planets, if we run out of room here, I'm sure we're going to have to make technological adaptations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
		We would have to, wouldn't we?
		But in the meantime, though, the minimite position would be don't live in those places.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		But, you know, let me address, too, the issue of air conditioning, if I might.
		You might.
		I do think that not that there aren't times when air conditioning may be a very good idea, but I do think that in general its use is greatly overrated because what it does is it overrides the body's own natural air conditioning system.
		I mean, all other air conditioning systems just borrow this idea from the body that by evaporating a liquid from a surface, it draws heat from that surface and therefore cools it off.
		And that's what the liquid on our bodies use is sweat, and the liquid that the air conditioning uses is Freon.
		But if you have air conditioning, your body never makes the adjustment.
		It never acclimates to the ambient temperature.
		That is true.
		And that is a physiological process.
		It takes about two weeks.
		The body has to sweat differently, has to reroute the blood flow differently.
		It takes about two weeks for that to take place.
		And if you don't allow, if you are always in an air-conditioned environment, you never allow the body to do that.
		I think by here in St. Louis, we haven't turned on the air conditioning at all this year or last year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very laudable.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		And what?
		That frees us up to go outside and not feel the horrible blast of heat.
		So we actually gain a season, and we don't really lose that much in the way of comfort.
		Now, there are some days when it is really brutally hot.
		And for those days, we just go to the swimming pool.
		We just say, hey, Uncle, we'll go to the swimming pool.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, look, I've got a lot of people who would like to ask you questions.
		And remind me before the hour's up, and we'll again give the address where you can get an actual autographed copy of this of your book.
		But in the meantime, a lot of people do want to ask questions.
		First time, color line, you're on the air with Eric Brendi.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, my name is Alan Rhodes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just give me your first name, only Alan Rhodes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and Alan, turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a prerequisite to getting on the air.
		There's a delay system.
		It will confuse you.
		Okay, Alan.
		So, what's up?
unidentified		I'm from Georgia.
unidentified		I just want to make a few comments about your guest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		I didn't get the first part of the show, and I apologize for that, but I think a distinction should be made between the Amish and the Mennonites, USA.
unidentified		Now, the word is Mennonite, not Mennonite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, this is a name he assigned to a specific sect so that he wouldn't have to give their real name, sir.
unidentified		Well, what group was?
unidentified		I mean, can he talk about what group he's identifying with?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, Because he wants to give them, you know, they would like to keep their anonymity.
		So he agreed to do that.
		I understand that.
		I hope you do too.
unidentified		Well, I am very disturbed in this mixing up of that name with the Mennonites, which is the main line, Mennonite Church, USA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mark, do you want to address that, Eric?
unidentified		Which is totally different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've got that.
unidentified		Totally different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you want to address that, Eric?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay.
		The group that I was with was a part of the larger Anabaptist movement, which has three main branches we know today as the Amish, the Mennonites, and the Hutterites.
		That's correct.
		There is a spectrum among the Mennonites.
		You have Old Order Mennonites that still drive horse and buggies, and then you have a more mainstream Mennonites that are very similar to everybody else.
		Sometimes they wear head coverings.
unidentified		That's correct.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		But even in the more liberal groups, sometimes they don't.
unidentified		Are you over with the Old Orders?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		I was with a group that was with the Old Order.
		Whether it was Mennonite, Amish, or Hutterite, I don't want to say because I don't want to give too many clues to their identity.
		That's why I nickname Mennonites, because the one characteristic they really have is that they minimize the use of technology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, all right, so we're past that color.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anything else?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		That's all I want to say.
		And then I coined another word, minimation, for minimizing the amount of automation one uses in one's life.
		And that was the principle of technological selection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I've got it.
		Okay, clear on that.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Eric Brundy.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		I'd like to say one thing that I'm a long-time listener to Art Val.
		I've been listening for a long time to you.
		My wife and I, we've joined a Vichy Amish Mennonite community here in California.
		And one thing that was very hard for me to let go was my wind-up radio to listen up to the evening news with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, apparently you have not yet let go of it because you are.
		Well, I don't know about that one thing.
		I mean, you're calling me now.
unidentified		Well, we allow phones.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
unidentified		For business.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		The other things I had to let go with TV and a lot of other things, though, like TV entertainment, computer net, things that go along with technology that your guest has been speaking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how are you faring without those things?
unidentified		I remember you were commenting about your friend who went to the Bahamas, you know, and he had that.
unidentified		I had the same thing where I missed it a great deal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, Bermuda.
unidentified		Oh, Bermuda, I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're really tight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, no radios, no computers.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pretty minimalistic.
		Anyway, so how are you faring without these things?
		Are you happy?
unidentified		Oh, yes, yes.
		That's one thing that really made it worthwhile was the community.
		I mean, really, when you join the community, you're part of the body.
		It's just like your body.
		If you stub your toe on a door, you don't scold the toe for hitting the door.
		You take care of your toe.
		The same thing is true with the members of the community.
		If one gets hurt, they all help.
		And so even building a house or making sure you get food and everything's, all your necessities basically are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Communal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's very communal.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Well, I'm glad you're happy.
		For my part, Eric, frankly, I don't like people that much.
		In other words, this requires, that's a very harsh statement to make, I understand, but this requires a very harsh interdependence, and it is a very community-oriented, I don't want to say communistic, because that wouldn't be fair at all, but certainly communal, I don't know, kind of living, right?
		Where all for one and one for all, that sort of thing.
		Is that right?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		But I think that one of the reasons why it is so inviting, the community is so inviting, is that, as I put it in the book, that manual labor craves collaboration.
		When you're working together, or when you're working, there is something about working physically that draws out of people their personalities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		And I think it's partly because since you're there to work and not necessarily in order to get to know people, but the purpose is the work, it actually paradoxically frees up your social self to get out of its shell.
unidentified		Oh, sure.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		You're not trying to get to know people, and so you do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you do.
		Right.
		Makes absolute sense.
		In a Minnemite community, I mean, it's got to be essentially like everywhere else.
		In some ways, there are going to be some people whose guts you absolutely hate.
		I'm sure the Minnamites have that kind of stuff going on, don't they?
		That's just human.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is, and it does happen.
		And that can be a real thorn.
		But there was a rule of thumb that one of the women in the community said, told me, that helps their community succeed, which is that whenever you get a comment or a reaction that strikes you the wrong way and you think you feel offended, never assume that it was the way the person intended.
		Always go back and make sure you understood what they said.
		And nine times out of ten, you misconstrued what they were saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then pull out the taser gun.
		All right, let's keep going.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Eric Brindi.
		Hi.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		This is Sherry in Fort Worth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Sherry.
unidentified		I grew up in a middle-class old-school bohemian type family.
		I was raised by my grandparents, and everything was kind of slow-paced.
		And I was just wondering how the children fare in that type of setting, in the Minnemite setting, as far as when they get older.
		Because, you know, when I got older, I went a little crazy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The old Catholic girl theory.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right?
unidentified		Big time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The wild ones.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Eric, that's a pretty good question in a way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As the Mennonite children grow, do they reach a stage in, oh, I don't know, maybe their teen years or just beyond, where suddenly they rebel and go out and taste the world?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, unlike the Amish in Lancaster County that have a wild Rumspringer and run around all over the place and drink a lot of beer and go crazy, these people did not.
		These adolescents, and one reason was that the people in this community had congregated in this remote part of the country where we were precisely to get away from that wildness that was in a lot of other of these settlements.
		And I will have to say that the results were pretty successful.
		I found that the youth there were extremely mature and self-possessed at a young age.
		There was an 11-year-old boy, 11 years old, mind you, living next door to us, one of the Miller children.
		And he would come down and monitor our activities and make sure we were picking our beans at the right stage.
		And he had this air of authority, of a seasoned experience about him that I've never seen even in kids a lot older than he.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he was completely immersed happily within the Mennonite lifestyle.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		He almost glowed.
		He had kind of a halo.
		He had this healthy glow to his head.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was that typical of Mennonite youth, or was that abnormal?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think it was atypical.
		I think he might have been more so than most.
		And he was the youngest in the family, so maybe he was doted upon a little bit more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but again, most Mennonite children don't go through that kind of rebellion and go out and become part of the world and say, I just, there's more of a world out there.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		I never heard of it there.
		They had very well-organized hoeings and other activities, singings, for the youth.
		There's a chapter in my book called A Hoeing, and it describes what the hoeing is like, and it's very charming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so, ma'am, it sounds like that's the answer to your question.
unidentified		Can I ask another quick one?
		Sure.
		What about the outside people that emerge into that type of setting?
		Don't you feel that's kind of a regression?
		And I understand that every once in a while we need to step back and take a look at the big picture before we can move forward, you know, if we've got a certain problem that we need to work through.
		But to me, it almost seems like you're regressing.
		Is there a specific reason or was there something that possibly you felt like you missed out on as a child that might have brought you to this curiosity?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, I missed out on a lot of things as a child because I was in such a televisionized environment growing up, and my father was so preoccupied with his technology and his profession that, yes, I did crave to have real human contact and do something real with my body and not feel cut off.
		And for that very reason, for me, it was not a regression at all.
		It was a way to progress and recover things that technology had deprived me of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But Eric, I'm sure any psychologist would just have a field day with you with regard to your father.
		Wouldn't he?
		In other words, you probably have an incredible amount of suppressed anger at technology for what it took away from you in terms of your relationship with your father.
		And that could manifest itself.
		Well, in your case, I guess it's cathartic.
		You wrote a book for the Unibomber.
		The Unibomber might have experienced something like you did, Eric, only it manifested itself in a different way.
		Is that fair?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, even if it's true that there's a really powerful psychological motive for what I wrote, I don't think that takes away from the actual substance of what I wrote.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, not at all.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		It provided me an incentive that the average person wouldn't have had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely, not at all.
		That isn't what I was trying to say.
		Just that you unleashed your, I guess, anger over what happened with you and your dad by writing about it, by going and living this lifestyle.
		Anyway, there certainly are parallels.
		Darkness, quiet, silence.
unidentified		the typical minimite night.
		To find out more about tonight's guest, log on to coasttocoastam.com.
		I see trees of green, red roses too.
		I see them bloom from in you.
		And I think to myself, what a wonderful world.
		I see skies of blue and clouds of white.
		The bright blessed day, the dark sacred night.
		And I think to myself, what a wonderful world.
		The colors of the rainbow, so pretty in the sky.
		Are also on the faces of people going by.
		I see friends shaking hands, saying how they do.
		They're really saying I love you.
		I hear from you.
		feel I much more And I think to myself To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does it get any better than this song?
		It's the Minnonites for sure.
		The Minnamites.
		look at it straight anyway what an incredible Eric Brendi is my guest.
		He's written a book.
		You can get a copy of it.
		And I'm just about to tell you how to do that again.
unidentified		get a pencil and paper if you would please no matter
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if it's fair to say that leading this lifestyle, as Eric led it, would lead automatically, or maybe even it would be preceded by, a very large turn among anybody to,
		oh, I don't know, religious, embracing some very deep religious belief, some very personal, very strong belief that all of this is the way human beings should be living and that what we're doing in society right now, particularly American society, is so out of balance.
		Is that so, Eric?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, I do think there is a natural compatibility between religion and living less technologically, because in both cases you're pursuing a goal that's intangible.
		And so there's a natural affinity.
		A person conceivably could go without a lot of technology for other reasons, you know, for humanitarian reasons or for ecological reasons.
		So it doesn't have to be, but there is a natural compatibility between the two things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		A lot of people want to speak to you, and I'm about to get to that.
		But you did write this book.
		I suppose is that what you are now going to become, Eric, that you're back in the world?
		Are you going to become an author?
		Are you going to continue down this road?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		I'm definitely going to continue the way I am.
		And writing is just one of several irons I have in the fire.
		I have the soap making, the rickshaw.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		I meant to ask you about that.
		You operate a rickshaw, your rickshaw driver?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		More properly called a pedicab.
		It's a taxi that's pedal-powered.
		And I have a prototype.
		It's the only one of its kind in the world.
		Besides the driver, there's room for four passengers, one of whom can pedal.
		And it has a very snazzy design.
		A passenger has to pedal or they're simply one of the passengers may pedal if he or she chooses.
		Sitting beside the driver.
		And sometimes I take my son out, who's 11, and put him in that seat and give him 50 cents a ride.
		He's my assistant when I do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you take calls like a taxi company?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I get Rickshaw over here at so-and-so.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		That's why I did get a cell phone because otherwise people couldn't get a hold of me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A cell phone.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't really like having it, but I'm trying it out with the cell phone.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		But most of the time, people really just hail me on the street.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how's the Rickshaw business in St. Louis?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Actually, surprisingly good.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Downtown St. Louis has a lot of restaurants and hotels, and there's a lot of conventions, and there's two major sports stadiums For the Rams and the Cardinals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, indeed.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		So there's a lot of activity going on down there, and the distances are far enough that people don't necessarily want to walk, or they don't want to necessarily take a regular cab.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how does a Rickshaw navigate on the street without getting into trouble?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		I was just in New York on my book tour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		And I saw them all over the place in Manhattan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what about St. Louis, though?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you can do it in Manhattan, you can do it in St. Louis.
		Because the traffic is 20 times more heavy in Manhattan than St. Louis.
		Downtown St. Louis is not that heavily trafficked.
		It's not that busy of a downtown center.
		A lot of the business has shifted over to Clayton, which is a near suburb.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, look, I don't want to let this pass.
		If you'd like a copy of the book, it's $24.95.
		If you're poor, he'll actually send it to you for that price.
		If you can afford it, and I assume most of you can, it's $27.95.
		That's three bucks for shipping and handling.
		You'd write a check to Eric Brendi.
		He's my guest right now, E-R-I-C.
		You're going to send this to his home.
		Last name, Brendi, B-R-E-N-D-E.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		And I'll autograph it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he'll autograph it for you.
		And you'd send it to 2037 Allen Avenue.
		That's 237 Allen, A-L-L-E-N Avenue.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		2037.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		2037.
		I'm sorry.
		2037 Allen Avenue.
		St. Louis, Missouri.
		That's M-O for Missouri.
		63104, is that correct?
		Right.
		Zip code 63104.
		He'll send you an autographed copy.
		And I guess the book, Eric, is it kind of like a tour through your entire experience?
		Is that it?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		It starts out with some of my childhood, then moves on to MIT, and that's the launch pad for the experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Eric Brindi.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, how are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Quite well, thank you.
unidentified		Good.
		Well, this is Ann from Walnut Creek, California.
		Hi.
		Hi, Ann.
		And I wanted to say that, first of all, I'm an ex-computer programmer, and I started programming in 1963 and retired from the Harvard Computing Center in 1967.
		And I hate the direction that computers took.
		I still don't have a computer.
		I'm going to break down and get one.
		But I do think that the direction computers took has really dumbed down our society.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In what sense?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Explain that.
unidentified		Well, in business, what's happened is that employees are trained to use the computer screen, and they're trained to use it exclusively, to not go outside the box of that computer monitor frame.
		And they're not trained to know what their company does.
		So whereas it used to be that one could talk to somebody in an organization, and this includes like our legislators' offices, for instance, and get information, but now they don't know anything and they've lost their natural curiosity.
		They've accepted the situation.
		They've become passive and apathetic.
		And then with TV, now I haven't watched TV in four years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, you're charging that with email and computer contact, there's no more human contact, even though it might be by phone or in person or whatever.
unidentified		Well, actually, I wasn't thinking of email and contact by computer when I finally reached the point where I can no longer be effective in doing research other than by computer because everything's on websites now, be it whether or not it's good information, it's the only information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're making a case for it, though, not again.
unidentified		No, I'm saying that it's a fait accompli, and so I've got to join the fray, but I'm going to be very reluctant.
unidentified		And I think that it's done a number on our brains, and it's also lowered the level of general knowledge in this country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if that's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The World Wide Web, I agree that a lot of it's trash, but it's like anything else, depending on how you use it, it can also be a treasure trove.
unidentified		Well, I hope that'll be true because I'm going to get a computer soon.
unidentified		But I think the average person because they're not learning things from other sources, including the classroom, the average, and, well, there's not as much conversation going on at home, but that's for a lot of reasons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, my guess is Eric agrees with you on all the negatives about the computer.
		But you see, Eric, there's somebody.
		She's going to go ahead and take the plunge anyway.
		Faita complete, she said, and she's got to go ahead and do it.
		Would you try and talk her out of it?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, I encourage her to read the short novella by E.M. Forster, The Machine Stops.
		It's a wonderful, wonderful piece.
		And even though it was written way back in, I think, the 1920s, it accurately forecasts our modern work and home environment in which people sit in front of this video monitor all day long and never leave.
		And all of their limbs have atrophied to the point where they can almost no longer walk or go anywhere.
		Of course, that's not quite how it's turned out.
		But I do think that there is something very insidious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think, like, you remember the words from the year 25, 25, our arms and legs hanging uselessly by our side?
		Remember that?
		Is that where it's going?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, I do think that we are suffering a lot of physical symptoms of the lack of use of our bodies.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		And even though our arms might not be shriveling, our hearts are suffering from plaque buildup because of the lack of exercise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
		First time calling a line, you're on the air with Eric Brendi.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, let's see.
unidentified		I actually had more of like a comment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of comment?
unidentified		Kind of a general comment just about tying in, you know, the minimalists, the minimites with the things that are happening globally as far as the whole planet kind of dying here, supposedly?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in a way, it's a very good question.
		the planet he we can argue uh...
		i think reasonably is an ecological trouble uh...
		eric and i wonder if the minimize are even aware of this or anything else outside of their locked It doesn't come by TV.
		It doesn't come by radio.
		I don't even know if they read newspapers.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, and it's not even part of their real purpose.
		They don't see this as environmentally responsible.
		They just see it as a good way to live.
		And then one of the benefits of it is that it is environmentally responsible.
		And that's one reason why I wrote this book as a pitch to the individual to lead a better life, not as some way to improve the environment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but again, are the Mennonites aware of the state of our environment?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that they are aware, and some are more aware than others.
		You have degrees of that.
		And there are some who take it very seriously, but they're not members of the Sierra Club.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, they're members of their own club.
		No, I've got that.
		I was just wondering if they, you know, how do they get an awareness of the world, if you don't mind?
		In other words, some news in some way of what's going on in the world must reach them, or does it not?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, if it's important, they'll find out about it.
		In a way, they're luckier than we are with regard to the filtering of hype.
		They don't get all the made-up news.
		It's only transitory.
		But if, say, something, say the World Trade Center collapses or something momentous, well, their customers will tell them.
		And they'll immediately tell each other.
		So they have, we serve as their filtering device.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		And so unless it's really happening or has really happened, the news wouldn't make it to them.
		So that would be a filter for all the baloney, I suppose.
		You're right.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Eric Brendi.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Bill from California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Bill.
unidentified		I'm struck by two things by your guest this evening.
		One is it's kind of a throwback to the ancient Greeks where you had wanting a blend of the physical and the mental to have a perfect kind of a person or human.
		And also, I'm struck by the fact that, if Professor Kaku and others are correct, that as we connect more as a planet, as a world of peoples through communication, that to survive in such large numbers as on the planet today, it simply cannot be that we go back to living in this kind of situation.
		It simply, as the earlier caller said, the lady talking about computers, that's a bell that cannot be unrung.
		Information simply is too vast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		That's a pretty good point, Eric, that there are a lot of bells out there, the Internet's one of them, that cannot be unrung.
		And there will be many instances where it is a fait accompli, and you simply have to give in and become part of it.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		I think there's always room for us to do less than the powers of be would have us do.
		I don't think that I think there, even if somebody has a job that they're locked into for one reason or another, I think that they can find ways to minimize the technology in their daily life without necessarily quitting their job.
		I think there's always room for that.
		And I think to the extent that we make intelligent choices like that, our economy will change, and in turn, the kinds of jobs we have will change.
		It's reciprocal.
		So I think we're the participants, and if we change our lifestyles, then everything else will change accordingly eventually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would happen to a Mennonite who snuck out and went to a computer cafe and was seen by a neighbor going into a computer cafe?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't even know if they have a rule against going into a computer cafe because it never happens.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		But if there were a rule against that and they had vigilant people watching around to make sure people weren't doing it, then they would get reported and then get in trouble.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do they have vigilant people watching?
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Not that kind of thing.
		But let's say if somebody does violate a rule in their community, then assuming that the person was a member who joined the community and made the vow to observe all of the rules in the community, then that person would be asked to repent of that.
		It's a religious thing for them, so it would be something they repent of because it was something that implicitly they promised.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be a sin, put another way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be a sin.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		For them who are the core members of the group.
		And I mentioned that in my book, that perhaps I wouldn't put it that way.
		That's one of the reasons why we wouldn't have ever joined the group formally because we don't put it in terms of sin to use or not use a certain kind of technology.
		And that's where we might have differed with them.
		Luckily, our landlord who rented us, the house that we were in, was an affiliate of the community, but he was not a member.
		And for that very reason, he was a little bit reluctant to tie those two things together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, we're about done here.
		We're running out of time.
		but i i must say this has been incredible and amazing And so that's going to make it a really interesting book for a lot of people.
		And you just wouldn't believe, I don't believe how many people are fastblasting me on a computer, mind you, that, oh, you know, I've been thinking about that, and that kind of lifestyle actually appeals to me, and I'd like to know more.
		And therefore, I think your book probably will sell.
		Oh, wow.
		It doesn't take much.
		Well, anyway, I'm glad you're happy, and I think you got your ideas across just fine.
		Eric, thank you for being here tonight.
		Good luck with your book, and I don't know, keep it minimized there, buddy.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you very much.
eric brende ▲ ● ▼		It was a pleasure to be here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		All right, Eric Brendi.
		The Minimites.
		I'm going to remember this one for a long time, and I'm not sure why.
		There was just something sincere and real about it all, and so far beyond my understanding that I still can't even begin to contemplate it.
		But that's what it's all about here.
		Learning about new things.
		See you tomorrow night.

▲