Art Bell welcomes Dean Radin, who details the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research (PEAR) project—using quantum randomness to show mind-matter influence, with odds of 10 million to 1 against chance. Spoon bending and Global Consciousness Project anomalies, like a 14-day precognition drop before 9/11, suggest repressed psychic impressions. Radin’s Entangled Minds explores brain quantum entanglement, citing 1965 twin studies and gut reactions to distant emotions. Evolution may suppress such abilities for survival, but fringe research hints at profound, underexplored connections between consciousness and reality. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the Globe's 25 Prolympic Time Zones, every one of you covered by this program one way or the other, which is post-to-post a.m.
If I wasn't here, I can assure you that I can absolutely assure you I'd be there.
It published spaceship one.
It's a private rocket in space.
It's going to be attached actually to the underside of its white night carrier airplane during takeoff from Mojave Airport at about 6.30 in the morning.
MSNBC.com will provide live streaming video coverage if you're up at that hour.
And it looks like all the networks finally headed down their CNN headed down there.
And then all the other networks said, oh, I guess we better get down there so they're on their way.
At an altitude of about 50,000 feet, the rocket plane will separate from the White Knight, light up the engines, and shoot up to 100 kilometers, 62 miles, internationally recognized boundary of outer space.
It will be the first private craft to leave Earth.
The first privately of Burt Rutan's effort to leave Earth.
And it's just hours away.
Now, I got a very interesting email from somebody a little while ago about Burt Rutan.
And, of course, if I wasn't here, I'd be there.
I guarantee you that.
I'd be there.
It's only about four hours away, plus, you know, prep time and so forth.
So I just would not make it in time.
And I understand it's a rave kind of atmosphere going on at the Mojave airport.
Anyway, the email on Ratan's stuff, he says, if it works, and it has to this point, why it's so far ahead of NASA, there's no comparison.
Instead of 800 people in a control center size of a small city, Bert Rattan has four or five guys in a truck.
Think about it.
Economy of scale.
They will leave the ground at about 6.30 and whatever time it takes to get to altitude about 50,000 feet.
Then she takes off.
Godspeed.
Is what I would say.
What an effort.
What an incredible effort.
And seeing the private sector going into space is heartwarming.
Very, very heartwarming.
And if it does not give you the opportunity, surely it may give your children the opportunity to go to space.
Anyway, to me, that's the big news.
There is other news to discuss.
Let's see.
South Korean held in Iraq pleads for life.
The Arab satellite television network Al Jazeera aired a videotape Sunday purportedly from Al-Qaeda-linked militant showing a South Korean hostage begging for his life and pleading with his government to withdraw troops from Iraq.
South Korea says not a chance.
The Al-Qaeda group responsible for beheading an American engineer said, sympathizers, listen to this now, sympathizers in the Saudi security force provided police uniforms and cars used during the victims' kidnapping.
That's according to an Islamic extremist website on Sunday.
So you just don't know what to think about Saudis, do you?
I've always had some great suspicion they weren't quite friends.
They seem to be when the diplomatic handshakes occur.
And that, in fact, they were responsible behind 911 financially, very deeply indeed.
So kind of a schizophrenic kind of response from the Saudis.
They take our money for oil.
Iraq's prime interim, that would be prime minister, announced a restructuring of the country's security forces Sunday, regrouping all Iraqi troops under one central command whose chief duty is tackling insurgents plaguing the country.
The prime minister also said his government was considering imposing martial law in Iraq's troubled spots to help police and paramilitaries bring order.
The chairman of the September 11 Commission said Sunday that al-Qaeda had much more interaction with Iran and Pakistan than it ever did with Iraq, underscoring a controversy over the Bush administration's insistence that there was collaboration between the terrorist organization and Saddam Hussein.
Thomas Keene made the comment, even as he and his other commissioners tried to steer clear of the debate over one of the administration's primary justifications for invading Iraq.
Well, so they're saying, uh-uh, it just didn't happen that two other countries, Iran and Pakistan, both had much more to do with those who perpetrated the September 11th massacre than did Saddam Hussein.
Well, then there goes that as a reason to start the war.
And so we don't have that anymore.
Well, but we've got the weapons of mass destruction, right?
Coming up at the top of the hour is an interview I cherished that with Dean Raden.
Dean Raden is involved, or was involved, in the Princeton project, the consciousness project, this incredibly important, incredibly interesting concept that there is a universal consciousness and that actually,
like a seismograph, Princeton was able to distribute what they called their eggs, really computers scattered geographically about the world, that report back to the Princeton computer.
And then when large events occur, as an earthquake would register on a seismic scale, why the needles take off, in fact, ahead of the actual event and predict events.
Now, that would seem to indicate the ability to read the power of mass, or at least some aspect of mass consciousness.
And so Dean Raden is involved in that, was involved in that project, and in many more, and has written a brand new book called The Conscious Universe.
And we will talk to him about that tonight.
Fascinating man.
Just reviewing, last night, in case you didn't hear it, I read a fascinating story from The Guardian about the chairman of Shell Oil who said, well, actually, the headline is, Oil Chief Colon, My Fear is for Planet.
Shell Boss's confession shocks industry.
Well, I bet it did.
He's saying, unless we do something pretty soon, well, he's simply very worried for the planet.
Now, that is not something you would expect an oil company exec to say.
And then you've got this from the Manchester News.
Insurers, that would be insurance companies, warn of climate change threat.
The implications of climate change must be addressed now if insurers are to continue offering widely available and affordable cover.
An insurance trade body warned today.
The Association of British Insurers said climate change was not an issue that would have an impact in the future, but was something that was already affecting insurance.
Forget about the future.
It's affecting insurance now, with household claims relating to storm and flood damage doubling in the five years to 2003 to 6 billion pounds.
It warned that insurers face the prospect of these claims further tripling by 2050 if nobody does anything.
By the way, you remember the danger of the dirty bomb?
You remember I talked to you a little bit about a dirty bomb maybe having much more of a psychological effect than it ever would, a real effect in terms of killing people?
Well, true.
Here it is.
The dirty bomb, allegedly planned by terrorist suspect Jose Padilla, would have been a dud, not the radiological threat portrayed last week by federal authorities.
As a June 1st news conference added, the Justice Department said the alleged Al-Qaeda associate hoped to attack Americans by detonating uranium wrapped with explosives in order to spread radioactivity.
But uranium's extremely low radioactivity is harmless compared with high radiation materials such as cesium and cobalt isotopes, which are used in medicine and industry that experts see as potential dirty bomb fuels.
So the one he was thinking of detonating just would not have done very much at all.
We're about to do open lines coming up in just a moment, but every now and then I get an email or a communication that I find really intriguing, and I don't necessarily understand it, but I'm sure one of you will.
Randall writes, Hey, Art, I work for a contractor for the National Science Foundation on their Antarctica programs.
One project's starting construction down there now is called Ice Cube.
That's a good name.
It is a very large neutrino detector being constructed in the glacial ice near the South Pole Station.
It is over a kilometer square and a kilometer deep with a network of detectors embedded in the ice.
Now, some of you knowing more about this than myself might be able to explain to me what this is potentially all about.
So have you kind of learned to not tell people you're an angel because of the, I don't know, difficulty it engenders as conversation goes from that?
unidentified
I'll tell you, Ark, I hate it.
I hate telling people about it.
And the only reason I have to tell people about it is because I have a book that I've written and it's supposed to get out to as many people as possible.
She, yeah, so, I mean, I don't believe she was an angel.
I believe she was a time traveler.
Just real quick, my sister and I were standing by the door waiting for the elevator door to open up, and this lady walks up, and for some reason, my sister and I did not move when the door opened, and she walked in.
She had a lab coat on.
She was about 165 pounds, black hair, very plain face.
She walked right in the elevator.
The elevator door started to close, and then I snapped out of it, and I said, hey, Lynn, hurry up, hit the button.
And then I hit the button because I was right there.
The door did not even close.
It opens back up.
We walked in.
No lady.
But that's not what I called you about.
So, I mean, anything is possible.
And there's a lot going on out there that you have no clue.
I mean, if this woman disappeared right in front of me, and it happened twice.
I called once before and I told you this, but it happened in another hospital also.
The reason I called you tonight was the title of this story, and it's a true story, it's called The 18-wheel a Miracle.
And it goes out to all you truckers out there, and I thank God that you guys know what you're doing on the road because it saved my life.
The year was 1973.
This happened 31 years ago, so the trucker that was out there at the time, I don't know if he's retired or not, but this is what happened.
I'm on I-95.
I just passed over the borderline of North Carolina.
And I had a Harley-Davidson chopper, fully chopped, long front end.
There were only two people on the road.
There was a car on the right-hand side of the lane, the slow lane, and it was this old lady and guy in there.
And as I passed their car, my mufflers would bounce off of it, and they just gave me this look, and they rolled up their window.
And way in front of me was this 18-wheeler truck.
And that was in the center lane.
So I pulled up, I nailed it, and I just went, wham, right up to this truck.
And I was remembering what my science teacher said in school.
He said, if you go up close enough to a truck, you'll find out there's absolutely no air behind the back of it.
There's no air disturbance.
There's a void back there.
So I figured I would try it out.
So I got directly behind the truck.
And sure enough, I was right up to the back of the truck.
And there was absolutely no wind back there at all.
It was nice and calm.
I just heard the sound of the truck, the sound of my motor.
And it's a good thing I knew enough about physics to not just pull right out alongside, get back into the wind.
Otherwise, the wind would have knocked me right down because I was going around 65 miles an hour.
So I slowly backed up from the truck and had all the air pressure get back on me.
And then I moved over to the left-hand lane and started to pass the truck.
As I get up to the cab of the truck, the truck driver sees my bike and it was so hot.
He just leans out and he gives me the arm up, like, all right, half bike and stuff.
So I gave him it back and just at that point I heard like a shotgun sound go off and I hear boom and then I hear I look to the back and I my my rear wheel is locked and I started to s uh slow up.
No, I found out later on that my chain, my primary chain, locked up because the chain oiler was not working and the chain just froze, locking up my back wheel.
And I think what happened was, just at the right time, the peg must have caught in the road in the expansion slot, and it just whammed me right out of the road.
And they're an amazing force out across this country.
A lot of them listening to this program on a nightly basis.
And I can tell you that for sure because no matter where I go with my RV, when I'm in the RV, the truckers will recognize me, and of course the program.
And I know darn well that if I were out there in the middle of the night driving out across the country, this is indeed what I would be listening to.
It's not beyond reason for it to be so, and I certainly have considered it.
Consciousness is obviously an incredible force.
Could it be the monster of the id coming from inside of us?
Yes, it could be.
unidentified
Yeah, when you talked with Mr. Sarita last week, it always seems the question comes up why they seem to stay in the background, yet abduct us as if they is a unified front of alien intelligences.
Well, how about the notion that they represent multiple, sometimes conflicting, extraterrestrial, extra-dimensional, probable future selves-entities, and that some form of what we might call, thank you, Star Trek, prime directive is in operation that precludes this overt mass public contact until we're ready, okay?
Well, the whole concept of prime directive, even though used in Star Trek, and so it's easy therefore to laugh it off, is such a universal sort of truth when you think about it that even though they used it, that doesn't make it any less sort of a universal truth.
I think there would be, don't you, a prime directive?
unidentified
Yeah, it's sort of like we're incubators.
We're sort of like potential embryonic gods, and we've been given this great gift of free will.
And if there's true free will and free choice, then if we're evolving, this evolving personalities also have that possible choice of becoming self-confusing, self-disrupting, self-destroying.
So basically, by our own personal consciousness and free will decision-making, then, we draw a certain faction into our own personal and or group consciousness or reality.
And I thought about that many times as you're searching for answers to what otherwise is completely inexplicable, so much of the paranormal.
That has to be one of the things that you consider, and that is that the active human brain, our brains, alive and functioning, that one aspect of them that we know very little about accounts for a great deal of what we cannot explain.
Because we don't understand it.
You're on the Air Coast Coast Day Ambrose Bell on the international line.
And my comment is, or the question would be to you, is that I was on the internet or the New Year's Eve prediction show last year, and I was prediction number 35, and I just wondered, it was the Bush-Bin Laden connection coming?
If the President of the United States knew that two buildings in New York and the Pentagon were going to be destroyed or in part destroyed, you think that he would just sit back and do nothing.
Do you honestly believe that?
unidentified
I believe that paranoia is reality on a finer scale, Art.
Well, when you hear the chairman of Shell Oil say something like that, and you hear the big insurance companies, Lloyds and the rest of them, concerned they won't be able to cover things because they're going to get so bad, you better be listening.
unidentified
Yeah, you should.
And another thing, too, we've got some information tonight, some truth about Saddam Hussein, is that he did have weapons of mass destruction.
Russia was the one that told him to get them out of there before we got there.
But again, if they had them and you're about to engage in a life-and-death battle, and from Saddam Hussein and his lieutenant's point of view, certainly they were about to engage in a life-and-death battle, then why not take out as many of the infidels, in quotes, as you can and use them?
I'm from a small town near Houston in Texas, of course, Dayton.
And there was a UFO incident down here that was on national television.
And I went to high school and graduated with the guys who was, what happened, he was driving down the highway, and he and his grandma and his mother, they had this UFO land in the middle of the highway, and they had radiation burns from it.
Uh, we we we probably don't have the stated motives for the weapons of mass destruction or his involvement in 9-11 or whatever.
None of that seems to be panning out.
unidentified
Yeah, um, second of all, I I also think that the government is like they have a lot of stuff that they're like, uh, and um, you know the White Knight, the the um the rocket plane thing?
Just being kind of new to the subject here, I just wondered.
I know Stanton Friedman's coming up online here pretty soon next to this coming week.
And I was wondering if you had any suggestions for someone who's new to the subject as far as UFOs or abduction type theories, who I might study, which materials, which books might be the best for introductory purposes.
What is it you think that is going on as a newbie to all of this?
What do you think?
unidentified
Well, it's certainly very interesting.
I was a longtime critic, and talking to some of my friends who claim that they saw a few things and kind of introduced me to your show, it's kind of changed my thinking just a little bit on the subject there.
Dean Raden earned a BSEE Magna Cum Laude in Electrical Engineering from the University of Massachusetts.
He also has an MS in Electrical Engineering and a Ph.D. in psychology, both from the University of Illinois.
For 10 years, he conducted research on advanced telecommunication systems at AT ⁇ T Bell Labs and GTE Labs.
Then for the majority of the last 20 years, he has investigated psychic phenomena full-time in academic and industrial positions.
Dean served as a member Of a classified research project investigating psychic phenomena for the U.S. government at SRI International and headed PSI research programs in Silicon Valley for two scientific and industrial think tanks.
He has been senior scientist at the Institute of Noetic Sciences in 2001, is also adjunct faculty at Sonoma State University in California.
Dean's research has been featured in numerous magazines, and he has appeared on several radio and TV programs.
In addition, he's author of the book, The Conscious Universe, which I have in my hand.
And I thought, you know, it might make sense to read you the preface of this book.
I thought it was really, really good.
He'll be here in a moment.
The preface says, Nonsense, barked the man in the pinstripe suit.
There isn't a shred of evidence for psychic phenomena.
The clacking sound of the rails punctuated his blunt dismissal.
His companion, a young woman with luminous eyes and an immense halo of hair, was unimpressed.
Harry, she said, glaring at him, the evidence is staring you in the face.
When I boarded the commuter train a few minutes earlier, I was looking forward to an uneventful trip, but as the train began to move, two latecomers rushed in and took seats right next to me.
Their argument clearly had been percolating for some time.
Harry, it seems, was an advertisement for Brooke Brothers, complete with a tashé case and Wall Street Journal tucked under one arm.
She was dressed in saffron and carried a well-worn book bag.
In my meditation last night, she said, pouting, I received a message from Zeron.
Harry rolled his eyes, and voice dripping with sarcasm said, would that be the Zeron from the planet Pluto or Zeron from Atlantis?
Oh, the one from Atlantis, of course.
You know the Plutonians aren't telepathic.
We communed mentally through his dolphin friends.
He said my psychic abilities would improve if I got my aura cleaned.
Harry's smirk at life's stupidity had permanently creased his forehead with an angry gash, but this last remark caused a vane to leap forward.
Exasperated, he caught my eye, leaned over, and said in a stage whisper, Shirley's gone off the deep end with all this new age crap.
I uttered a non-committal grunt, not wishing to get sucked into what appeared to be a long-standing disagreement, but I did not have the luxury of remaining neutral, for Shirley overheard the remark and righteously replied, if you listened to Zeron for once, you wouldn't be such a skeptic.
His words are pure truth.
More like pure bull, he grumbled.
There isn't a shred of evidence for ESP telepathy or any of that hokeum, not one shred, she protested.
If you feel it, that's proof enough.
You just live in your mind, your head too Much.
Sensing a concession, Harry bellowed, your belief about ESP doesn't mean it's true.
It just says that you believe it's true.
If science hasn't proved it, then it isn't true.
unidentified
It's just superstitious, mythological, folklore, mumbo, jumbo, mystical crap.
I couldn't stand it anymore, so I said, excuse me.
But I couldn't help but overhear your conversation, actually.
There's quite a bit of scientific evidence for psychic phenomena.
They really do exist.
Shirley smiled beatifically, pressed her palms together, and said, bless you, with a bow.
At the same time, Harry's expression snapped into such a stupendous grimace, with one eye squeezed tight and the other twitching like a guppy out of water, that I was a little concerned that his head might explode.
I quickly added.
On the other hand, regardless of how persuasive your personal psychic experience may be, science has shown time and time again that personal beliefs are often mistaken.
After my little speech, both of my new acquaintances adopted scowls for different reasons.
Shirley's face wavered between awe and bewilderment, while Harry narrowed one functioning eye and said suspiciously, what makes You think you know anything?
I sighed, realizing that I had just made a mistake.
From past experience, I knew it would take about six hours of discussion about science, history, psychology, and psychics just to reach the starting ground of educated opinion.
I wanted to explain to Harry and Shirley that what many people think they know about psychic Phenomena ain't necessarily so.
I wanted to describe how scientists had essentially proven that PSI exists using the same well-accepted experimental methods familiar to scientists in many disciplines.
I also wanted to explain why hardly anyone knew this yet, but no one likes a lecture.
So instead, I wished I just had a book that I could hand to them that would explain all of this for me.
This is that book, and that book is called The Conscious Universe.
I don't, but after listening to you read the preface, I think what I should do is have you read the entire book, and then I'll have an audio version that I can give to people.
Well, I think after having conversations like this for years with people, including many, many skeptics, I've come to the conclusion that you can't convince anybody of anything, especially if you're starting from a strong position beforehand.
And this goes for both believers and skeptics.
It's extremely difficult to push somebody's belief away from where it is, provided that it's quite strong to begin with.
And just to give you an example, from skeptics who read the preface, they come away thinking that I'm a super egotistical maniac of some type because I'm making a claim in the preface that I think I know something.
And of course, from their point of view, which is on the hard right in political terms, they think that they know what the truth is, and therefore anyone who says anything other than that is basically nuts.
And on the other side, if somebody's coming from a strong left position, the New Age position, they will look at what I said and feel confused as to why I'm giving any credence at all to the skeptical side.
Well, in the middle, then, there must be some group of generally open-minded people that you could attempt to impress with what you consider to be facts or things that would convince one that at least some of this certainly is true.
But that doesn't mean that there's 40%, which we really can't push at all.
And so for the 60%, it depends a lot on whether I'm talking to a popular audience or a scientific audience.
For the scientists, I typically try to get an hour or so, and I present data, one screen after another, in a PowerPoint show that shows results of experiments that have been replicated many times by people for the last 50 years.
And the reason is that, you know, we all have our own agendas, and we're oftentimes paid to do research in a given area, and we don't have the luxury of being able to drop everything and try a new experiment.
But it does happen, and it happens often enough that we're able to advance the state of the art.
The difficulty, of course, that all of us have is that intertwined with the reality of PSI and the reality perhaps of global consciousness and so much more that we talk about on this program, in the periphery of all this, or even mixed squarely within, are some people who, frankly, are off on fits of fancy or whatever, and they do the whole concept a fair amount of damage.
Now, this, it is much, you know, we think about any discipline, any controversial discipline, that includes things like cold fusion and the few people who are seriously trying to research UFOs and so on.
Yes.
We're hurt far more by people who make wild claims than we are by people who are making highly skeptical remarks.
And the reason is that we get painted by a very broad brush.
So if you have somebody who is making wild claims, that brushes is going to drip over on us, and then a skeptic will look at us and assume that what I'm saying, for example, or what I've written in my book, is more New Age silliness.
And the consequence is that they simply won't pay any attention to it.
Well, I would think it's much like I'm sure the government's position must be with respect to UFOs.
Whether or not UFOs exist, one thing we know for sure, and that is our government is testing very exotic new aircraft that are frequently mistaken for UFOs.
So having ufologists out there and having UFO reports from the government's point of view must just be a real bonus.
I was once speaking to a friend of mine who works at the CIA and in a sense is the real-life molder from X-Files, the person who is given the crazy things to track down.
And of course, the reason why the CIA and others got involved is because the farmers went to their senators and the senators went up and then the message came from on high, go figure out what's going on here because you're making some cattlemen angry.
So to make a long story short, whatever is happening with some of the cattle mutilations, it looks like it is a real phenomenon.
And the important point here is the people who investigate and get there very quickly do not know what it is.
And you can imagine that if it were common knowledge, that people who you would hope would know what's going on, people who can get there quickly and have spy satellites and all methods that can be used to figure it out, and they cannot, that would be somewhat disruptive.
So it's simply easier for the mainstream message to be, well, there's nothing to it, just so that we don't disturb people.
Well, my own sense is that we're not dealing with ET in the sense of hardware, or even with extraterrestrial intelligence.
Instead, my own bias here is, because I tend to take a psychological view of these things, is that the distinction between the subjective and the objective is nowhere near as clean as we usually think.
That there is something like an imaginal world.
It's the world that's living in between the subjective side, or the world inside your head, and the objective, which is the world outside your head.
There's a middle world, the imaginal world.
That world sometimes actually manifests.
And so what it has to do with cattle mutilations, I have absolutely no idea.
It could be something like a collective mind or maybe individuals' minds that are manifesting in a physical way, but only quasi-physical.
And the reason I say this is based on 50 years of laboratory experiments which show that there is a relationship between what goes on inside your head and what goes on outside in a direct way.
It assumes that mind and matter are complementary in the sense that they're like two sides of the same coin.
They're different than each other, but they're linked in a very solid way that makes them go together.
So under that model, that hypothesis, if the mind becomes very quiet through meditation or through high attention or something that makes the mind quiet, then the hypothesis says, well, maybe the matter side will also become quiet.
So if we think about this from an internal body state, if you sit down to meditate and your mind is all agitated before you settle down, your body actually tends to be agitated as well.
After a while, your mind begins to calm down and your body becomes quiet.
So by analogy, if mind and matter are linked, then if you have somebody sit down and meditate and they become extremely quiet both inside their mind and their body, then perhaps in the vicinity, you will find that physical systems that are not connected to the person will also become quiet.
The way we test that is with randomness because it's very easy to detect when randomness is no longer acting quite as random.
All right, well, we'll talk about what it is in a moment.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
But nevertheless, whatever the source of the generation is, nevertheless, a feather touch, something ever so slightly manipulating that which was random and all of a sudden begins spitting out the understandable.
unidentified
I never dreamed that I knew somebody like you.
I never dreamed that I knew somebody like you.
He's got this dream about buying some land.
He's gonna give up the booze and the one nightstand.
And then he'll settle down.
It's a quiet little town and forget about everything.
But you know he'll always keep moving.
You know he's never gonna stop moving.
'Cause he's rolling.
He's the rolling stone.
When you wake up, it's a new morning.
The sun is shining.
It's a new morning.
You're going.
You're going home.
To talk with Art Bell.
The file card line is area code 7757271295.
The first-time color line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from East of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
From West to the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country spread access number, pressing Option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
From coast to coast, and worldwide on the internet.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
I have always believed, not always actually, no, that's a lie.
This has come of recent years, but I believe the human mind, together and perhaps collectively, may turn out to be the strongest force in the entire universe.
The source is typically electronic noise through something like a Zener diode, which creates something called electron tunneling, which is a quantum effect.
Or we have a new type of random generator, which is based on the decision that a photon makes when it hits a half-silvered mirror.
And that also is a quantum process.
So ultimately, the random events that we're working with are quantum physical processes, which are, as far as we can tell, completely random.
So the point of using these is that you're right, it's like a feather touch.
It would take close to no energy at all in order to influence the effect.
And it also is convenient because these things are very easy to monitor with a computer, so you can have completely automated experiments.
Do you think, Dean, that the feather touch experiments that you're doing are necessary because of the nature of the power of the mind to influence such events, being inherently weak at this point?
And do you think that we are at its very beginning of development?
In other words, do you think that that power could be increased perhaps and focused to produce more than a feather touch?
We consider how many people make it into the Olympics out of the pool of possible people.
And we're probably dealing with something like one thousandth of a percent of the population have the physical qualities and probably the mental qualities to be able to do Olympic-level sports.
So somewhere at that level, there are people who have mental capabilities that are way beyond other people.
And in fact, if you look in history at people who are able to repeatedly do what we call macroscopic movements, moving things that you can see moving, you don't need statistics in order to see it.
It's the fingers on one hand are the number of people who have reliable witnesses saying that, yes, something seemed to have occurred.
And I'm much more convinced of that now than I was even five years ago.
And the reason is that, and this goes, by the way, across the board for any kind of psychic claim, that if somebody makes a strong claim, like bending metal or moving an object, I think I'm like most people in that basically I don't have any reason to believe it unless not only do I see it happen, but even better if I can do it myself.
Because otherwise I don't have any basis to believe it.
So I certainly have had friends that have said, and when it comes to metal bending in particular, that they've bent a metal bar that you can't bend physically, or that they've bent a spoon or something like that.
And I said, oh, yeah.
I'm thinking in the back of my mind that they're probably dissociated and they don't know their own strength and all of the usual explanations.
I mean, it really is interesting that you would say that short of being able to do it yourself, no amount of observation of anybody else doing it would be satisfactory.
We live in a world of illusion being almost the norm, don't we?
I mean, as I say in the book over and over again, it's extremely easy to be fooled.
And so anybody who starts looking into psychic phenomena, if they're not also reasonably well trained in close-up magic and illusion techniques, to say nothing of ordinary psychological problems, then you're going to fool yourself fairly quickly.
So I've spent a fair amount of time when I used to live in Las Vegas.
I would hang out in the magic shops.
And for example, a couple years ago, somebody came to me claiming that they could bend metal.
And to prepare for this person coming to the lab, I went to the local magic shop and I said, can you show me a trick or something that I can buy to bend a spoon?
And then he said, well, I have eight different methods.
Which trick would you like to get?
So I bought all of them.
And, you know, this is one of the reasons why magicians in particular are so skeptical because they know that it's very easy to be fooled.
And we had two cameras in two different angles because, and in fact, the camera people were told, one of you to do a close-up on the hand and the spoon, and the other one get a wider shot.
Because oftentimes there's a distraction that goes on and it's changed.
So we were able to tell both from the wide shot and the close-up that what we were seeing was an illusion.
And it was incredibly good.
But we could see it when we went back frame by frame and see how the trick was done.
Well, around the world, including in Russia, there have been reports of fascinating experiments of people doing all kinds of things, bending laser beams and light and all the rest of it.
Well, again, five years ago, I would have said my probability meter was quite low.
Today, my probability meter is a little bit higher.
And it's because of a personal experience.
And I wouldn't expect anybody to accept it, but I'm just saying that for me, my meter has changed a little bit because something happened which I know cannot occur through illusion or force.
So I went to one of these PK metal bending parties that Jack Helk often gives.
The reason I went there is because I wanted to sit within a foot or two of somebody who said that they did something which I know cannot be done by force, which is to take a large soup spoon and bend the bowl of the spoon, to bend the bowl over.
Not to bend the neck, which is fairly easy, but to bend the bowl.
I've measured how much force it takes to do that, and I know that no ordinary person without some kind of leverage can do that with their hands.
So I found a lady who said that she had done it before, so I sat down about a foot and a half from her and watched very closely because I wanted to see this happen.
At the same time, I was holding a spoon, and I was trying to mimic what she was doing.
And it's a big, heavy, old-fashioned type soup spoon.
So I'm watching her and watching her, and nothing's happening.
And then somebody points out to me, look what you did, meaning look what I did.
And I had somehow managed to bend the bowl of the spoon about halfway over.
Well, you can only imagine that your mind, if you did it, your mind somehow modified the atomic structure of that spoon at a certain point, enabling it to be taffy-like.
And the conclusion that was reached back then was it is a real phenomenon.
It doesn't happen all the time.
When it happens, it leaves a mark, you know, that the thing is bent, so you can study it.
And what it looks like is though there's extreme heat applied to the grain boundary inside the spoon.
And of course, if you're trying to bend it in a certain way, then if the grains all melt along a certain line, then it would be very easy to bend it in that direction.
And as a result, I suddenly realized something about the fear that is associated with these large-scale effects, even though ultimately it might be a microscopic effect.
And anybody can go look at the website if they want to.
It gives a full list of the results, and not only that, you can download any of the data.
But I would warn you that if you download the data now, it's a lot of data.
It's like 100 megabytes per day because there's so much data being generated.
And the point of all this is that we make the hypothesis that mind and matter are related in some way.
And this essentially is taking what we used to do in the laboratory, one person trying to mentally influence a random generator, and expanding it up to the size of the world.
So we take advantage of large-scale events that tend to attract a lot of people's attention around the world.
All right, so these eggs are scattered all over the U.S., all over the world, and they report back then to Princeton.
And anything, I guess the idea is anytime you begin getting large reports from many eggs that non-randomness has begun to occur, it registers on some kind of graph somewhere.
So the way that we test this, the way that we have been testing it from the beginning when we started in 1998, is there are two basic types of events that can occur.
It's either something planned, like New Year's, or something not planned, like 9-11.
So if it's planned, we make a prediction in advance.
We're going to look at the data at this time for this length of time.
If it's an unexpected event, then we use the same four-hour period, but we, of course, have to look at it retrospectively.
And we start from whenever the event occurred, and we go out four hours later.
Actually, we start 10 minutes before it occurs and goes out later.
So to date, we've done 174 events.
And these are massive events like 9-11.
There are meditations, worldwide meditations, the Madrid bombings, and so on.
One of the things that we've done is we wanted to see, well, what is the overall evidence at this point that we're getting non-random behavior?
And the odds, as of a few days ago, was somewhere between 10 million to 100 million to 1.
And the reason why there are two different odds there is because we did attract the attention of some outside physicists because we published an article in Foundations of Physics Letters, which is a mainstream physics journal.
And we've had people then go back into the raw data and replicate, reanalyze what we have been doing independently to make sure that we hadn't made a mistake.
And they end up with a slightly different result.
They have 10 million to one, whereas our result might be 100 million to one.
Well, you know, there's a difference there, but there's still far from chance.
Well, I recall that when I first began to learn of the existence of this project, of course, I went straight to the people at Princeton, and frankly, they didn't want much at all to do with me.
In fact, they didn't want much at all to do with any kind of publicity.
They were scared to death of publicity, is what I recall.
I mean, the analogy here is that we start talking about the Hubble telescope, and you say, you know, tonight, if you look out overhead, you can see the Hubble telescope.
Let's everyone shine your flashlight and light it up.
And, of course, that defeats the purpose of the thing itself.
What we're dealing with is a measuring instrument which is in the background measuring mass consciousness.
And so we don't want people to direct their thoughts at it because it'll screw up the monitoring process.
Back when I was probably some degree recklessly experimenting with this newfound power, if that's what you want to call it, I remember calling it the Law of Unintended Consequences, but Dean Reagan said it very elegantly.
Being on an airplane.
Remember that?
Trying to spoon bend, and then thinking about the aircraft wing.
You know, if the plane had gone down, there simply would have been an intensive FAA investigation, which probably would have ended with a sentence like structural failure or something, but that would have been Dean's epidaph.
So that's a much more elegant way of explaining the whole thing, the law of unintended consequences.
In August of 2000, I launched a website called GotSci.com, in which we have a suite of psy games, little games that people can take to see if they might be psychic.
Well, we think that the previous estimates were something like a tenth of a percent of the population.
And for this kind of game, it's more difficult.
This is not the way that psi typically manifests in the real world.
So, it's a much lower percentage, but there are some people who appear to have some talent.
But that's yet, there's another reason for doing this, and that is that the task as seen on the computer is a very simple task, but there are hidden things going on behind the scenes that we're also testing, which obviously I can't talk about because then obviously people will be thinking about that.
So let me just say that each of the tasks in this GOTSI site is a valid test, but there are other things happening which allow us to test.
One of the things, since we have thousands of trials per day by hundreds of people around the world, we can do something very simple, which is take a daily performance measure.
So I went back and looked at it, and I was shocked to find that this big drop in the curve occurs 14 days before 9-11, goes up to 9-11, and then immediately goes right back up.
I mean, you know, normally, the kind of curve we're talking about, What I'm asking here is the entire period of observation, how long has this been going on now?
Since August 2000, no, there is no other time of such a dramatic drop.
And in fact, there's a way to statistically test how often would you see something like this by chance.
And we've applied that test to this, and the odds are 5,000 to 1 of seeing this sort of drop in this 3.5-year data.
So it's a pretty dramatic effect.
It's visually very obvious.
And as I said, if you go to the IONS website, the Institute of Pneumatic Sciences website, we have a link there that will go to a page where you can see this thing.
Well, my speculation is that, and by the way, around 9-11, many people after the fact were reporting that they had bad feelings.
They had premonitions, they didn't feel well that day, all those kinds of things.
What this suggests to me is that for about two weeks before 9-11, that a lot of people were beginning to psychically get impressions of something bad coming up.
And this probably unconsciously.
And when we get unconscious bad feelings, the first thing that most normal people do is repress it.
Because who wants to think about bad news all the time?
And what it will end up doing then is what we in the business called psi missing.
In other words, you do know what the right answer is, but you will avoid it.
You will actively avoid it.
That's part of the repression.
And by avoiding it, you will end up getting a dramatic drop in performance.
And what that curve says to me is that for, and as I said, this is not a minor drop.
It's a really massive drop, and it stayed that way for two weeks.
It suggests that there's something like a mass mind premonition of something bad about to occur, and it was repressed for about two weeks.
I looked back in the data and tried to see if there was an event that we know now retrospectively.
Did something happen at the end of August?
You know, like was a decision made or something happened that put things into action.
And so as we just learned recently from the 9-11 Commission, that it looks like somewhere near the end of August that a go decision was made.
Somebody said, okay, we're going to go do it.
And I mean, this is all high speculation, of course, but I'm wondering whether some aspect of many people somehow got that and they were sensing that something bad was coming up.
So one of the implications of this is in the Global Consciousness Project, we saw an effect a couple of hours before the events unfolded.
That's sort of interesting, but a couple hours may not be enough time for anybody to do anything about it.
Now with this, we're using human beings, in a sense, not as random number generators, but as detectors of something.
And given that we see an effect that's two weeks in advance, it may be that this is a much more effective way of acting as an early alert system, basically.
Do you think that the geographic diversity of these eggs, for example, would help in the geographic would there be would there be a larger well maybe I've got a better way of asking it if if you look back at the data prior to 9-11 that did spike do you find that in the northeast part of the country in in geographic proximity to the area where it actually happened New York City for
you got higher intensity deviations from the norm yes that was a yes yes you have looked at that yes so there might be a geographic way to pin down where something is going to happen yes oh oh wow we probably need more eggs in order to get a better topological map but we did do a we first
look at hemispheres and then continents and then you know east and west coast and so on right and the strongest effect occurred in the northeast of the United States that's for the global consciousness project boy did I ask the right question yeah well that's that's the obvious question to go because just knowing that something's about to occur is interesting but knowing where yes is much more interesting yes so I haven't done the same sort of analysis yet for for our card test because if
it turns out that they are also there's a bigger effect by where people are then that becomes extremely important because then it actually might act as an early warning system huh well we're a long way from being able to call up you know the governor of Georgia and telling him to watch out for what's going to happen in Atlanta here in a couple days or a week or whatever but this certainly is a lot of progress isn't it well it is actually very unexpected both the global
consciousness project premonition that's what it is and this car test these are both unexpected results so it is I always try to pay close attention to an effect that was not predicted beforehand because if we only get things that we predict beforehand then maybe we're just looking at something like a self-fulfilling prophecy but if we take advantage of these serendipitous discoveries that's you know that's really by grabbing something by the tail and you got something yes well it seems to me you do have something by
the tail and maybe this is a little humorous question and maybe not and maybe you shouldn't answer it but have you yet detected any super people I mean people who have played your little game and both with what is the obvious and perhaps the not so obvious that you can't tell us about is there any super people yet yet uh...
no no super people no super people thought we had a super person but then we figured out that they were uh...
they were using a method of cheating which we hadn't thought about it ice land i see what we locked that down the presumably super person that would turned out not to be so super after all uh...
el in what is the government now beginning to i don't know if you can even tell me if they did but are they beginning to show interest in what you're doing uh...
ip number track them down and they should expect you know a knock on the door we we are tracking things like ip number but whether that would lead us to an individual or not is only in very unusual circumstances could that could we find a person but a lot of people register for the test you know we we know we have names we have emails and so on and in fact we've already done a talent test and we're aware about the launch of second phase of the talent test
what would happen if you found i don't know the i don't know the iron sign of psi i mean if you stumbled across the iron sign of psi have you all talked about what would and sue we would we would jump for joy well yes and if you finish jumping on it the thing is that the uh...
by the way psi only means pounds per square inch well yeah the word is psi it's just simply a letter of the greek alphabet right meaning uh...
roughly psyche having to do with the mind so yeah well after you jumped up and down and you're all happy that you found this person what would be in store for that person?
um...
if they were really good and they were not interested in participating we would never find them because they know where we are and they would just go be somewhere else and i think actually that the the very small percentage of extremely talented people out there can easily avoid any detection because they've been able to do it because they've been able to do it and they've been able to do it and they've been able to do it and they've been able to do it and they've been able to do it and they've been able to do it and they've been able to do it and they've been able to do it and they've been able to do it and they've been able to do it and they've been able to do it and they've been able to do it and they've been able to do it and they've been able to do it and they've been able to do it and they've been able to do it can easily avoid any
detection because they've been in there they have that ability do you blame them?
no, not at all not at all i think actually when we're lucky and we end up with someone with who's very talented and who wants to work in a laboratory that that is an exceptionally unusual pretty rare most people are going to go running they well i think actually they they're very deft they don't actually have to run anywhere they just use the mental aikido not to be not like a jedi master and they just disappear uh-huh well i would
think i mean you've got to put your per yourself in such a person's shoes and if you do that i think very quickly you'd probably not volunteer to go be a lab rat because of the consequences i mean if you're for real real then I don't know you're You're a lab rat, and I don't know who you could trust not to cut you open ultimately.
A Conway in Deer Park, Texas writes, this is very interesting.
Very interesting.
If your assumption is correct, then we're done for.
There are millions of Muslims praying at least three times a day, just as hard, for the destruction of the United States.
Due to this mass melting of minds, we have no defense.
Well, I don't know whether that part is true or not, but there are at least a very large number of people who would wish us ill and would pray for that.
I mean, intensely concentrate and pray for something bad to happen to us.
Well, we've looked in the Global Consciousness Project to see where the large effects occur.
Since we have 174 events of different types, we can see, well, what's bigger, a natural disaster, an act of terrorism, a day of meditation, that sort of thing.
Dean Raden is my guest, and we're talking about the conscious universe.
Indeed, we are.
That's the name of his book.
unidentified
It don't come easy.
You know it don't come easy.
It don't come easy.
You know it don't come easy.
I'm going to pay your dues if you want to see the blues.
And you know it don't come easy.
You don't have to shout or leave the loud.
You can't even play that game.
It's been so hard to be.
I tried to reach for you, but you have closed your mind Whatever happened to our love I wish I understood It used to be so nice, it used to be so good So when you hear me darling, can't you hear me?
S-O-S The love you gave me nothing else can save me S-O-S When you're gone, how can I even try to go on?
When you're gone, go outside, how can I carry on?
S-O-S To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
The first-time caller line is Area Code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from East of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
From West of the Rockies, call ARC at 800-618-8255.
International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country spread access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
The problem with this kind of thing, and I have one absolutely unambiguous, absolutely clear case of precognition in my life.
It couldn't have been chance.
It couldn't have been random.
It couldn't have been anything but the real thing.
It was the real thing.
Having said that, it's never happened again.
It only ever happened one time.
Try as I might, I can't bring it back.
But I tell you right now, when it happened, it was the real McCoy.
No question about it.
Without boring Dean and the audience by repetitively telling my pathetic little but interesting tale, Dean, when it happened, when this precognitive experience happened, I was so shocked, I actually fell to my Knees.
I was kind of dizzy when I realized I had just experienced a real serious precognitive event, and I got up off my knees after a while and responded to the event in progress.
But, you know, it just blew me away.
There's never been anything like it before or since, and I can't make it happen if I try.
And so I don't know what science is going to do with something like this.
The abilities themselves seem to be random.
I don't know how else to put it for a lot of people.
Now, I suppose there may be a few out there, and I know you're looking for them that just have it or can do it on command.
I think that evolution has pushed us in the direction of making it difficult to make these things occur, which is one of the reasons why they're so rare.
And the reasoning goes like this.
Let's say in some primordial state, in fact, we know this is true from quantum theory, the world is fully interconnected.
Well, if human experience can feel that interconnectedness, then it seems likely that some part of us is aware of what's going on elsewhere and also elsewhen.
Unfortunately, for the point of view of survival of an organism, that's a real bad thing.
Because if I'm wandering around in the forest and I'm paying attention to the tiger that's not in front of me, but the four million tigers that are scattered all around the planet, the likelihood of me continuing to live is quite low, because the tiger in front of me is going to jump on me.
So I can see that the organism has evolved in such a way as to pay very tight attention to what is close to me, both in space and in time.
That's the only way I can survive.
What that means is that we've evolved over millions of years to become creatures that are not psychic.
And in fact, we're really good at not being psychic.
So if this hypothesis were true, then you would say, well, if we really do have connection, we can connect to this interconnected world out there, it's not going to happen in the ordinary waking state, because that's the state that evolution has pushed.
It might happen in a state where we're not an ordinary state, like dreaming, or a drug-induced state, or some other very high-emotional state, something of that sort.
And in fact, when you look at where the spontaneous psychic events occur, they're very, very rarely occurring in the ordinary waking state.
You want to use unconscious measurements like physiological changes.
You want to use experiments where you don't tell people that it's actually a psychic experiment, it's something else, or they're dreaming, or they're in some kind of unusual state.
I'm curious, Dean, what would the presumption be if, for example, the Consciousness Project evolved to the point, just for the sake of argument here, that not only could you pinpoint the geographic location of an event, but you could perhaps even predict some of the details of the event.
I'm assuming a refinement that might be 20 years away from where we are right now.
But just for the sake of this discussion and making it really interesting, let's say we could define, look at group consciousness and really define exactly what was going to occur, who might be involved, how they were going to do it.
We're talking now about an act of terrorism, let's say.
And we had all of these details.
Would you presume that we would be able to change an event that was going to happen?
That it would be changeable.
Or do you make the assumption about events in the world that they're going to unfold in a certain way and man can't step between them?
The other possibility is that the future, in fact, is determined, but precognition is not all that good, in which case we only get a vague sense of what the future is going to be.
In both cases, it will look as though we're dealing with probable futures instead of absolute futures.
Either precognition isn't very good, in which case you might get a really good vision, but it's not as good as you think it is, or the future really is not determined yet, and you're looking at one perhaps of multiple possible worlds.
My own bias here, of course, is I think like many people, I prefer to think that we have free will.
And so we might get a really good precognition of where we're headed, but we don't have to end up there.
Because the alternative makes us feel like robots.
Everything is determined.
You can just go after and do anything, and it won't matter.
So resolving that question is a very important question.
The reason I'm asking this, and now I guess I'm forced into it in a way, and I won't tell the whole story, I'll try and make it very short, but here I was, I think I told you before, watching TV in my living room, the evening news, in an apartment in Santa Barbara.
We had a rolling glass thing that looked out to where I parked my car, which was right in front of the apartment.
And these waves came rolling over me in the middle of the newscast, you know, watching Dan Rather or whatever.
But a guy was walking down the sidewalk, and he got into the car in front of mine, started his engine, and put it in reverse and slammed into my car.
that's when I fell to my knees.
I mean it just...
Hey, I've got your license number.
He said, okay, okay, I'm stopping.
And we took care of business, you know.
But I wonder, Dean, could I have yelled at that guy who was going down the sidewalk if it ever happened again like that and said, hey, buddy, drive carefully or something?
And so back to all the radical Muslims praying for the destruction of the United States.
And even though the positives register harder, you've got people out there praying really hard with a very strong belief system, one they're willing and have shown they will die for.
Well, fortunately, what we don't see so far is that wishes literally come true.
What we see is that focused attention will create order in physical systems.
That's all that we see.
And what that means is in terms of physiological changes, in terms of perhaps large-scale erratic systems, or not erratic, but large-scale systems that are on a knife edge, which can include things like the power grid and other things like that, that it may affect them in some way, but not necessarily in a bad way.
Now, one of those reckless little experiments I played with about three or four times and had eerie hair-raising success with was predicting rain.
That is, trying to cause rain by mass thought in areas where there was no forecast for rain, and it was desperately needed.
And we did it.
We absolutely did it.
To hear, like an hour after you conduct an experiment, that cloud vapor began to form, Dean, and that rain began to fall in an area where it just not a million billion years should have begun to fall, that a low-pressure system suddenly developed and boom, you've got rain, that totally freaked me out when we did those experiments, Dean.
And I never, at that time, even thought about unintended consequences.
But the weather would be a system like the ones you're describing, wouldn't it?
And unintended consequences can be very, very serious.
That's why, I mean, we occasionally, I will do an experiment that will freak me out too, and immediately have to wonder about what are the consequences of this.
And I actually think that one of the reasons why this, I mean, this field has been studied in a scientific way for over a century, and it is not mainstream by any stretch of the imagination.
It's been relegated to the far fringe for a long time.
My sense is that the world, that society reacts to what we're talking about, including the experiments which we publish, in the same way that the body's immune system reacts to a foreign antibody.
That as soon as the thing comes out, the anomaly, the thing that freaks you out, or a publication, the whole system gears up in such a way as to get rid of it.
It suppresses it.
And we're talking about literal suppression in the sense that it's virtually impossible to do this sort of work in academia.
And also in more subtle ways, in ways where the collective mind says, you know what, we don't really want information about precognition out there, so we're going to suppress the ability to get it, even in the laboratory.
And that's, in a sense, what I think we're seeing in the 9-11 anomaly associated with the CAR test at the Gottsai site.
You know, there's a massive back reaction that says, hey, we don't want to be psychic because it's too scary.
And I think that's one of the reasons why the field at large has been pushed into the fringe.
So, in fact, one of the directions that we're doing at the Institute of Noetic Sciences is addressing the so what question.
You know, people have psychic experiences.
We're able to show effects in the laboratory sometimes.
Well, so what?
Well, one answer is that a lot of people pray for health in particular.
And typically praying for somebody else's health.
So to give an example, one of the studies we're doing, we call it the love study.
And we're looking at the effects of compassionate intention on another person's health, which is like prayer, but we call it compassionate intention.
The people involved are couples, one of whom has cancer and is in treatment for cancer.
The other one is the partner who doesn't have cancer but would like to support them in some way.
So they go through a three-month training program to train them in how to provide compassionate intention.
Because one of the problems with cancer is not only that it's a disease we don't know how to fix, but that the partner of the person with cancer oftentimes feels that they can't do anything.
And they want to do something, but what can they do?
So they feel helpless, which is bad for the relationship.
So by training them with a compassionate intention means, we give them something to do.
But after the three-month training, we go to the lab and we check to see whether the partner's compassionate intention in fact can be detected in the patient's body.
And when the image goes away, they withdraw their intention.
So basically, the experiment is manipulating the partner's intention towards and away the patient.
And so what we're looking at are physiological changes, like changes in instantaneous heart rate in the patient, and they're being intended at and not intended at.
And what we find are not only heart rate, but skin conductance, brain waves, respiration, blood flow.
There's a systemic physiological change that we can measure in the patient when the partner is thinking about them versus not thinking about them.
You know, that tail of the tiger, I think, referred to when a scientist who was harmed mortally got two radioactive, weapon-grade radioactive elements too close together, and that's tickling the tail of that tiger.
But I meant it in this case, Dean.
I mean, do you ever wonder what kind of door you're walking through with this research?
It might be tickling the tail of the tiger at some point.
What drives me, the reason why I continue to do research in this field is basically curiosity.
I'm just amazed that we have capacities that, of course, the ancients talked about and the mystics keep talking about, but that science in general has ignored.
And, of course, most scientists will admit that if any of this stuff is true, then it's extremely important to know.
But you're absolutely right that when we start understanding consciousness to much greater depth than we do, it will change things dramatically.
And as I said, maybe that's one of the reasons why it has been so difficult to push in this area, because at some level we recognize that this is much more powerful than atomic power.
Are you concerned that other countries, China, I don't know, maybe India and Pakistan, other countries around the world may be working on this much harder than we are, much harder, and devoting many more resources to it?
Or do you think that's simply not true, that we're on the cutting edge of this?
And so we would get a sense of what they're up to, and it became very clear that they're not much beyond where we are.
In fact, they're, if anything, behind where we are.
So I'm not too nervous that somebody is way ahead, but I am nervous that there is research that's going on that, and within the United States at least, it is considered to be beneath contempt, which means that people who should be paying attention to this are probably not.
That means that other countries, well, I mean, here's an example.
In the United States today, the Institute of Noetic Sciences is one of less than a handful of scientific labs that is devoted to studying these things.
By comparison, in Europe, we have probably about 20 universities in England and Scotland, Germany, France, primarily, also Portugal, where this stuff is being taught in universities.
And there isn't a single university in the United States that is teaching students these topics.
But there's a difference between what we know versus what is allowed to be studied.
You think a few generations down the line, that's where I start getting concerned.
A few generations down the line, the United States will indeed be quite far behind, primarily because you have thousands of people graduating from college who only hear the mainstream story, which is, well, there's nothing to worry about because none of it's really true.
Whereas by comparison, in Europe and also Japan and China, there's a very different sense about it.
It's not considered nonsense.
It's considered, well, we don't quite know what it is, but, okay, it's something that seems valid to talk about at least.
And also, even if somebody does come across this, they might even be sympathetic to the idea of these phenomena, but they don't know that there actually is a pretty good and solid base of research which supports it.
And in addition, anybody who gets involved in this will immediately become a lightning rod for the strong skeptics who really have an ideological push to make it go away.
Or any of its extensions or relatives that you're aware of.
In other words, anything that, for example, a government could use or a large corporation could use in some, from their point of view, at least, productive way.
Well, you obviously would not rely on any one source.
You wouldn't rely on the Global Consciousness Project either.
But if you find that your other sources are showing something funny is about to occur and the Global Consciousness Project begins to show something and the Got Psy site, well, then you have multiple sources of independent data saying, well, something's about to happen.
I mean, they're talking about frequently when they make the announcements you just spoke about, they'll say, well, we've noticed increased chatter or communication going on in the Al-Qaeda network.
And the answer is that unless it was highly classified, in which case you'd never know about it, or somebody stepped up to the plate and said, well, here's some money.
Go figure out how to make it work.
So far, no one has done that.
So this is where I put in my pitch for people who are interested in these topics, become a member of IONS.
You know, that's where the money comes from to allow me and other colleagues to do this kind of research.
So we don't, you know, one way is to go out for the million-dollar grants.
Well, that's not going to happen.
But having people join IONS as standard membership, that's where our bread and butter comes from.
That's what allows us not only for us to do it, but also to give colleagues grants to independently do this kind of research.
In fact, this is, it was the Institute of Pneumatic Sciences that gave the original grant to Roger Nelson to allow this project to begin.
That's mainly what we've been doing.
We give little seed grants to people who have an interesting idea, and they know they can't get money from anywhere else, and we evaluate whether we think it's a good idea.
I mean, you know, when somebody's watching you very closely, well, I'm not sure I'm paranoid enough to have worried about it.
Let's put it this way.
I live a clean life.
And so if someone were doing that, that's fine.
I don't care.
You know, and if someone can learn something, that's great.
I have given talks to people who would be in a position to be interested in this, and there is interest.
It's just politically such a hot potato.
I mean, you can imagine within the intelligence community now, if someone got wind of the intelligence community using something like this, it would be hell to pay.
The remote viewers almost all claim that the government had its $20 million dabble with remote viewing, and it's all done and finished.
And I always thought, well, you know, if remote viewing really works reliably, and there are so many that claim that it does, I've interviewed so many, then they wouldn't be done with it.
How could they be?
So we all heard the Nightline show where they finally admitted, yes, we did do it.
$20 million of taxpayer money was spent on remote viewing secretly for years.
And so I, for one, think that if it did work, it's still now going on and probably a parallel effort to yours as well.
Well, you're making what was taught to me over and over again, and it's called the rational man mistake.
You're making the hypothesis that people are rational, and especially that in politics, people are rational.
And it just doesn't work that way.
And I remember when I first started working at SRI, and I had the briefings, the classified briefings of what we actually knew at that time, I kept saying the same thing.
Holy smoke, if this stuff is as real as it looks, then how come it isn't widely known?
I mean, this is amazing from a scientific perspective and also for its usefulness.
And I was advised to not make the rational man mistake.
It does not, you know, there is a rational argument.
Of course it should be used, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it would be used.
I mean, but you did talk about briefly, or at least you touched on drugs, and I know it's a sort of verboden subject, but I really am curious how much of an increase in PSI ability has been demonstrated under the influence of any sort of psychedelic, any sort of drug that has been tested?
In other words, I don't think it's as simple as give the person a special drug and suddenly they become miraculous.
It doesn't seem to work that way.
And partially it doesn't seem to work that way because we're dealing with something like with not simply my mind jumping out into the world and describing things, but we're jumping out into something which is not just an objective world.
You know, it's that intermediary world.
It's an intersubjective world that you are looking into.
And in fact, the case can be made that that is really the true nature of the world is intersubjective.
It's not just merely objective or subjective.
It's some blurring between the two.
And that means that when I go out and remote view something, what other people are thinking and doing and believing and so on is mixing into what I see.
So, I mean, it's quite different than simply taking a snapshot.
Yeah, well, that's been known now for at least 30 years.
It was first noticed many years ago when reviews of spontaneous cases were looked at in terms of the dates.
And what was noticed was that spontaneous psychic events tended to occur on days that were quiet from a geomagnetic point of view.
And it has been confirmed now in the laboratory that days that are quiet geomagnetically have better performance in the lab than Days that are stormy geomagnetically.
That tells us something about probably the state of the nervous system.
If you take somebody and you sort of shake them while they're trying to do remote viewing, they don't do too well.
and when the geomagnetic field is having a stormy day it tends to shake up the nervous system a little bit well when we're having a geomagnetic storm uh...
In other words, you want to remove the noise that's represented by what's hitting you.
So inside a lead room you go.
unidentified
The heart of the beating meets.
Light from the neon turned the dark to pink We were too hard to think of sleeping It's a
nice, no body's weak I'm on the
run, no time to sleep I've got to ride, ride like the wind To be free again And I've got such a long way to go To make it to the border of Mexico To my ride like the wind Ride like the wind
To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from East of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
From West of the Rockies, call ARC at 800-618-8255.
International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
If I don't tell you that I'm not going to be here next weekend, I'll be in lots of trouble.
So I almost let the show go before saying that.
I will not be here next weekend.
And the honest and real reason that I'm not going to be here, I'm going to tell you about right now.
Okay?
The broadcasting industry has eggs out there, too.
They're called surveys.
And they go on almost all year long.
There's, I don't know, four or five surveys a year or something.
You know, it's a very important thing, radio surveys, right?
You're number one, you're number two, you're non-existent, whatever.
So the radio survey only has a very brief period of time when they're not taking a survey.
One of those periods of time is coming up in the next week or so.
And so during that period of time, they like you to take vacation.
So they have indeed suggested to me, since this is one of those rare times, then go on vacation.
So I said, all right.
So next weekend, I will not be here.
Where I will be, I don't know, but I may get in the RV with Ramona and take off to some.
Who knows?
Anyway, that's the reason.
So I have not been abducted, nor has anything untoward happened to me because I'm not here next weekend.
is simply been suggested to me that that during this magic week i take a couple of days off *sad music* So there, you know, a little inside secret, as it were.
Now, you know, it's not a random event that so many people in the broadcasting industry go on vacation at roughly the same time.
There's nothing at all random about it.
Dean, welcome back.
You said better a lead room, and that started me thinking, well, all right, a lead room, for example, you didn't say lead room, I said that.
But that would protect somebody against, for example, the effects of a geomagnetic storm, which would remove the noise factor.
But the implication would be that it would remove that person's ability to do other psi things unless they were immediately with inside that particular realm.
Because if the noise is affecting that person, then you would think that the information that they would receive would be on the same frequency, if I can use that word, as the noise that's affecting it.
What you do, what you create, of course, is a place that is like a bottle which has no magnetic field in it at all.
Some people notice it.
They feel that it is exceptionally quiet.
It feels quiet.
Even though normally we don't think of ourselves as having a magnetic sense, but in fact we do.
Some people are very sensitive to it.
The effect of it is basically to simply quiet the nervous system.
This is one of the reasons why I think that meditation is, I mean, if you had to choose one method to help improve psychic awareness, it would be meditation.
Today we now know that virtually all animals that have been looked at so far, I believe, including humans, do have a magnetic sense.
And so it doesn't seem to be - I mean, the relationship with psiability in this case doesn't seem to be magical.
It seems to be simply one more thing you can do in order to quiet down the nervous system so that you're able to pay more attention to what's going on inside your head.
And in fact, one of the things I'm working on is a training procedure that would help people not only to turn on psychic ability, but also to turn it off.
Because believe it or not, the single thing that people call for help on is not to learn how to make psychic stuff happen, but to make it go away.
Because people get disturbed with feeling other people's feelings and occasionally getting glimpses of thoughts and so on.
And this is exactly what led me to expect that evolution has pushed us away from these skills, not towards them.
So any responsible person who is training for psychic ability had also better learn and train to make it stop, because otherwise you're almost guaranteed to turn people into psychotics.
I mean, a case can be made that people who are schizophrenic, in some cases, when they talk about hearing voices, that they are saying exactly what's going on.
So in which case the drugs that are taken to suppress the symptoms may well be suppressing psychic awareness and would give us an important clue as to what's going on.
So for a stronger drug, I expect that we'd find pretty much the same thing, only just that much stronger.
So yes, from a purely scientific point of view, it would be great to do these studies, but actually getting permission to do it is a whole other matter.
So the story is that if we look at what's happening now for quantum computing, Science Magazine and Nature are like almost every week publishing something about new systems that can be entangled.
And just the other day, finally, atoms have been entangled.
Before that, it was mainly photons, but now atoms can be entangled.
And larger and larger systems for longer periods of time, and so on.
They're learning how to create large entangled systems.
The next step is going to be entanglement of biological systems.
They'll probably start first with single cells or below that, and eventually get to tissue, and eventually get to organs, and then somebody's going to ask the rhetorical question, well, what happens if you entangle brains?
What would that feel like to entangle somebody's brain with another brain?
Well, the first way to do it will probably be something along the lines of the idea would be that entanglement, I mean, our current version of entanglement is an extremely fragile state.
But my guess is that because of research on finding ways of creating more robust forms of entanglement, of which there are many papers coming out as well, that entanglement, as currently seen, may be eventually seen as a special condition.
Like a lot of times, it takes enormous effort to make the first laser.
But after we begin to understand it, it becomes generalized, and now you can make laser on a chip easily.
We're going down the road of learning how to entangle larger and larger systems.
My guess, and this is pure speculation, is that DNA might be able to be entangled with similar DNA.
So the first place people are going to look, I mean, someone's going to come up with the amazing idea that maybe we can test identical twins who, since they came out of the same egg in the first place, maybe they're already entangled.
And then someone's going to look in the literature, and they're going to find that in 1965, in science, a paper came out in which pairs of identical twins were, in fact, tested to see if their brains were entangled.
And the way they would do it is they would have the two twins separated.
They'd have one of the twins close their eyes, which would create increased alpha rhythm in that person's brain.
Then they'd look at the twin and they'd see whether that twin also had increased alpha rhythm.
And sure enough, and to a statistical degree, a couple of the twins did show that effect, which is exactly what now would be predicted.
They're entangled somehow.
Then you continue to look into the literature.
What you find is a number of studies have been done since 1965, which confirm that not only identical twins, but people who come in as bonded pairs, husbands and wives and lovers and that sort of thing.
Yes.
When one person gets typically a photic stimulus, a light flash, in their face, their brain has a very characteristic evoked potential.
And their partner, isolated at a distance, their brain also has an effect.
Well, I know you're aware, without my even telling you, of all the anecdotal evidence, a ton of it about identical twins and communication that occurs over, it doesn't matter how much distance about major events, that sort of thing.
I mean, there's a ton of anecdotal evidence about that.
But you see, I think what's going to happen is the reason why these studies with EEG correlations and telepathy in general, actually, the reason it will suddenly be seen as okay is because it's being pulled in by a theory.
And not just a theory, but like the theory, the theory that is really good.
And so for the first time in history, psychic events will be seen not simply as weird anomalies, but as something that makes sense according to theories that we're using already for other reasons.
I think that's when the tide will turn.
So in my book, I'm going to flesh out this two-paragraph description I just gave to bring in what I think is actually an enormous amount of evidence suggesting that that, in fact, is going to happen.
Yes, but if you could produce, as is being done now, at, I guess, quantum level, if you could really produce entangled brains, boy, talk about tickling the tail, aye, yi.
Well, finally, I do want to ask you about intuition, just simple intuition, gut feelings.
I've noticed that in this world of ours, there are very successful people, and then there are politicians who are elected there, very successful, chairman of the board of this or that.
And these people all seem to have very strong intuition.
And if you talk to them privately, they admit they follow it.
I've spoken to people in Hollywood, successful producers and venture capitalists in Silicon Valley.
They all say exactly the same thing.
They will admit privately, if they know that you're interested, that they get into a certain zone, and for sometimes weeks on end, they're in the zone and they know what to do.
And their success demonstrates that it's not simply an illusion, because they're successful repeatedly, and they're able to follow their intuition.
So, I mean, another way of casting what they're doing is that they're somehow psychically aware.
They're able to follow continually psychic information.
What I find interesting about this, though, is that it is oftentimes associated with literally with the gut, with feelings around the solar plexus.
And so we've done an Experiment on seeing whether or not the gut is really associated in some way with these kinds of things.
To see if the stomach jumps around, basically, when a distant partner is experiencing emotions.
And to make a long story short, the answer is yes.
A highly significant effect that if your partner is at a distance and is experiencing emotions that we create in the lab, that your stomach is going to start churning.