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July 3, 2004 - Art Bell
02:52:08
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - John Hogue - Nostradamus and Our Future
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From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon,
wherever you may be in the known universe.
All 25 of our earthly time zones, every single one of which is covered like a blanket one way or the other by this
program called Coast to Coast AMI.
I'm Art Bell.
It is my honor to be with you throughout this holiday weekend.
Well, I guess not all the way through, huh?
Since Monday, I think it's an official holiday, right?
Anyway, it's my pleasure to be here.
We're going to do a lot, and this program tonight is going to be with one of the world's experts on Nostradamus, or perhaps the world's expert on Nostradamus, John Hogue.
That's what we're going to be doing next hour.
And one of the reasons he's coming back on is because way back, On November, actually November 12, 2000, right here on this program, right here, he predicted that if President Bush was president, he would get America stuck on the ground in a major war in the Middle East, most likely with Iraq, his words, at the end of 2002, and predicted it would be America's second Vietnam.
Well, whether you agree or disagree with the Vietnam assessment, that's a whale of a talented, accurate prediction, isn't it?
And so, you know, I thought, I started thinking about predictions and, you know, Nostradamus, of course, but I absolutely understand that there are many of you out there that are talented Just as Nostradamus, perhaps not the Nostradamus, but many common people not recognized for this are so talented.
I get email predictions all the time.
So I think tonight, if you wish, what the heck, and certainly tomorrow night when we have open lines, that I would do a call to the talented.
Now I know we do predictions You know what, the New Year, between Christmas and the New Year.
But I thought I would go ahead and take some predictions, but very special predictions.
First of all, only from those of you... I mean, how do you judge this?
But being fair, if you feel genuinely talented or able in this way, would I want you to even try to make it?
I don't want you calling and guessing.
You know, that's baloney.
Anybody can guess.
But I do want things you think, and here's the catch, things you think are about to come true.
Not things that 50 or 100 or 1,000 years from now might happen.
I shouldn't say I don't care about those things because I do, but I'm not going to be here and neither are you.
So I want to know about stuff that's about to happen.
When somebody can make a prediction like John Hogue through Nostradamus, then that's impressive.
You know, we'll talk about that tonight, but in the meantime, if you really are a talented person and you have a prediction for something that's about to come true, and therefore, of course, we can track it and go, oh my God, look, back on such and such a show, it was said, the following was said, and it just happened.
So between now and tomorrow, What I would suggest you do, if you think you are such a talented person, or tonight, if you want to, and you have a strong feeling, a strong, very strong feeling about something that is about to happen, then I want to hear from you.
Now, I'm telling you right now, I exclude predictions of any political assassination whatsoever, at least with respect to united states politicians how about that
the rest of the world and i'll take them but u s politician no way
because you see i i get visited when when i get that kind of stuff some little
old lady somewhere in the middle of the country calls the uh...
a secret services of the world is a good brother who will be killed
no and then they knock on my door so i want to go through that
So no U.S.
political assassination predictions.
Other than that, though, the only requirement is that whatever you predict must be about to come true.
I mean, very close, a very close timeline.
That's all I'm interested in.
anyway all of that said we'll do a little bit of news in the world and then
take open lines for the balance of this our from baghdad here we go
An Iraqi militant group claimed on a website Saturday that it has beheaded a captive U.S.
Marine in what would be, if true, the fourth decapitation of a foreign hostage in the region since May.
The group called the Ansar al-Sunnah Army posted a written statement on an Islamic website claiming that it had killed Lebanese-born Corporal Wasif Ali Hassoun, saying, That he had been lured into a trap involving a love affair with an Arab woman.
Huh.
And here's some more for you from Baghdad.
It's unavoidable.
I mean, what's going on is totally, completely, absolutely unavoidable.
I mean, in terms of reading and discussing this news with you, it's serious stuff.
It really is.
Iraq's Prime Minister, less than a week after taking power, May offer listen to this now carefully the new prime minister of Iraq may offer amnesty to insurgents and may extend it to those who even those who killed American troops in an apparent bid
To lure Saddam Hussein loyalists from their campaign of violence, a spokesperson for, here he is, Ayyad Allawi, went so far as to suggest that attacks on US troops over the last year were legitimate acts of resistance!
A sign of the new government's desire to distance itself from the 14-month US-led Occupation of Iraq.
And I'll tell you, that's absolutely, that's absolutely incredible.
Incredible.
And I'm wondering, you know, at first listen, it causes my blood to boil.
And my guess is it causes yours to boil too.
But then the second question for you and for me would be, do you think that the new Prime Minister in Iraq said this incredible thing with the concurrence of the United States government behind the scenes somewhere.
In other words, do you suppose he said, OK, well, I'm taking office as Prime Minister America, but listen here.
I have got to show myself to be independent, not a puppet of the US government.
And I'm going to have to make a statement you might not like, and I wonder if they arranged all of that, so to speak, behind the scenes.
Otherwise, you know, if that's the case, then I suppose I understand, but otherwise it'll really make your blood boil to listen to that kind of crap.
Um, Elijah Brown's co-workers always had a hard time making any sense of him.
He paced, he talked to himself, he got bothered over teasing that wouldn't faze anybody else.
Questions about the meatpacking plant worker grew exponentially Saturday.
That is after he took two handguns and shot seven co-workers, killing five of them before killing himself.
That's one of those that is a head shaker, but he did go to a whole bunch of people in the meat packing plant, and those he had no beef with, he said, I'm gonna, just don't worry about it, I'm gonna let you go.
I've got no beef with you, and then he mowed down in cold blood the people he did have a beef with, and then killed himself.
I don't know, it's a head shaker.
I guess it depends on, you know, on what you believe, but If you're at all religious, I would think the last act you do would be poorly thought of if it were killing five people, and then of course you dispatched yourself to whatever fate awaits for murdering five people, if you believe that.
Scientists on Saturday released what they called the best photographs yet of the frozen surface of Saturn's enormous moon Titan, but said, guess what, we're puzzled The Cassini spacecraft had not glimpsed any evidence of any liquid.
They expected to find it.
No liquid!
However, the latest images of Titan reveal, get this, a single set of clouds about the size of Arizona.
That's it!
Oh, and some dark and light shapes across the moon that the imaging team continued to analyze.
It's got one big cloud about the size of Arizona on that moon, and that's it.
Just one giant cloud about the size of Arizona.
Before it did that, the Cassini spacecraft cruised through the coolest place yet.
I mean, everybody was waiting for these photographs.
And, of course, it went through Saturn's rings.
Right through the rings, and took some close-up photographs, and what we found is incredible!
The main rings are extremely thin.
Listen to this.
They stretch 70,000 kilometers from their inner to outer edge, but they're only about 100 meters thick.
That's a very, just extremely thin.
100 meters thick.
Now, they're made of loose ice particles in all sorts of sizes.
That's what they are.
Ice.
Now, this is fascinating.
In other words, how did that happen?
Was there some sort of moon that got blown up that was made mainly of ice and then got captured?
But they can't account for These pieces of ice, they're sharp.
That's what they're telling us.
They're sharp.
And they should be rounded from bouncing off each other.
You know, blurring the edges of the rings.
But the rings and, in fact, the ice, even at close up, is sharp.
That's really strange.
Perhaps a pulverized asteroid?
Perhaps something that came and was about to impact with Saturn, but was exploded before it got all the way down?
I don't know.
They don't know.
But it is absolutely fascinating, isn't it?
All right, one more item, and that is the weather.
I was on the air, I think this, yeah, it was last night.
It was last night, talking to a friend in a place called Wasilla, Alaska.
Now, Wasilla is kind of a suburb of Anchorage.
People up there are going to laugh and say, ah, no it isn't.
When I lived in Anchorage, we always called Wasilla kind of a suburb, but it was with humor.
At any rate, The weather in Alaska is, I mean, it's radically changing right before our eyes.
And I was talking to a ham friend up there and he said, oh my god, I've got to shut down.
And I said, what do you mean?
He said, well, the lightning's all around me.
I said, what do you mean lightning?
That's not something, believe me, you normally get in Wasilla at all.
But he had to shut down because of lightning.
And I thought of that when I read this story from a TV station up there.
From wildfires to floods to lightning strikes, it seems the weather this summer has been a hodgepodge of unusual events.
Is it just circumstance?
Or is it a trend of things to come?
Clouds were hanging over Anchorage on Tuesday, this last Tuesday, after a long stretch of sunny skies.
And get this, temperatures in the 80s and the 90s!
The 80s and the 90s, in Alaska, mind you.
Scientists disagree over exactly why Alaska is warming up, but, and they're working to find the answers, it has indeed been a hot summer so far.
Right now, the only air conditioner, for example, you can find at a Home Depot store in Anchorage, the only one they've got is on the display shelf.
The manager said, we're actually out at this moment.
This kind of heat is not at all typical for Anchorage.
Nor, by the way, is lightning.
But Monday night, East Anchorage resident Bob Merrill saw it strike about 100 feet away from him as he was rototilling his garden.
He said, quote, I felt it all over my body.
It just kind of tingled all over.
Weather experts are intrigued as they watch dry forests go up in flames and fast-melting glaciers flood rivers.
The trends are saying, yes, we're going to continue to warm, said Dr. Gary Huford, a regional scientist with the Alaska Weather Service.
And yes, as we continue to warm, we're going to start seeing strange events.
And speaking of strange events, it is now, of course, July, as we prepare to celebrate Independence Day.
It's July now, right?
And to this point, here in the desert, and you've got to bear in mind that I'm, what, 20, 25 miles from Death Valley.
That's where I'm broadcasting from.
Not that far from Death Valley, and we normally get temperatures here that range way up there in the 110s by this time of year, normally, and we haven't been anywhere near that.
Actually, we've been in the mid-90s for quite a while now.
So things are kind of upside down, to say the least.
Let us begin.
First time caller line, you are on the air.
Hello!
Hello?
Hello?
Uh, can you hear me?
Um, I can hear you, uh, yes.
Okay.
It's sort of confusing to know when you're on the internet.
I, I understand.
Yeah.
Hey, have you picked up, um, I, I didn't do the prediction thing, but I was wondering, have you picked up, uh, this July's issue of, um, National Geographic?
Um, let's see, have I?
No, I have not, sir.
It has a great story about the weather, the sun, how it's going crazy.
Oh, really?
Oh, it's great.
There's even centerfolds with the sun.
Oh, really?
Well, I don't think there's any question about the fact that our sun affects our weather.
Yeah, I actually think that when we have these ice ages, I believe the sun actually, for some reason, it flares out.
And what happens is that the Earth freezes and it affects The poles and stuff like that, and it tilts.
I believe the sun, if it flares out, it could flare, you know, it could flare out where there isn't any infrared or any light emitting from it for, you know, a short time.
Well, I don't know about that, but about sun affecting our climate, surely it does.
Of course it does.
It's one of the main heat sources.
Exactly.
Yeah, you were talking about predictions and stuff, and when I was younger I used to really make my teachers Nervous.
Nervous?
Oh, yeah?
That would be a pleasant habit to have in school if you were able to do that.
You made them nervous by what?
Making accurate predictions?
Um, no.
I'd actually, when we're in class, in class I'd always bring up everything he's going to do before they do it.
Uh-huh.
And they really got really nervous with me.
Well, I stopped doing that.
I cut that out.
But nevertheless, you are talented in the area.
Unfortunately, yeah.
All right.
Well, what I'm hunting for...
Is things that are about to come true?
Well, okay.
Recently, okay, what's going to happen nearby, we have a problem in Iraq with Saddam Hussein.
The people, as most people would think, that there would be against Saddam, but there's going to be a change of tables where Saddam is actually being supported by the people of Iraq again.
You've got to be kidding.
Now, I just can't imagine how that would happen.
I mean, as bad as they may regard our butts over there right now, Saddam really tortured and killed a whole lot of people.
How would that come to pass?
Well, the majority of the people, the economy of that country was incredible.
People were doing very well there.
The majority of the people were in support of Saddam, and Saddam was a really Really cruel leader.
He would, I mean, anybody who were to threaten his personal administration, he would, you know, he would kill them.
Well, you know, you know, though, it's such a mess over there right now that I'm hearing it said that whoever takes over, perhaps this new prime minister, whatever, they're going to have to be so tough On security and on the people, that it's going to seem just like Saddam was still there.
Exactly.
It's funny, most people say that that country deserves Saddam, because the people there are pretty wild, and without a strict leader, it's just chaos.
So, again, to be absolutely clear, you're predicting that Saddam will be again supported by, what would you say, the majority of the Iraqi people?
Majority of the Iraqi people, correct?
In this country, you'll be hushed up a lot, but the BBC will actually release information about the supporters.
Oh, my goodness.
Alright, thank you very much, and have a good day.
Take care, and don't scare any of the people you work with or anything.
Well...
Huh.
You know, I'd have said never, but you just...
Well, you're better off never saying never, so...
Maybe it could be.
Maybe the Iraqi people are so fed up now with what's going on in their country, the economy has taken such a plunge and a hit with all the terrorism, that they'd want Saddam back?
What do you think?
Predictions of things about to happen from the high desert.
I'm Art Bell.
Who's always looking for me?
Who loves you?
Who loves you, baby?
Who don't love you, mama?
Who loves you, baby?
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh When tears are in your eyes
And you can't find the way Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
It's hard to make believe You're happy when you're gray
Baby, when you're looking in my eyes You'll never see the morning light
The sun will come to me Baby, you'll see
Who loves you, baby?
Who's gonna help you through the night?
Who loves you, baby, mama?
Who's always looking for me?
To talk with Art Fell, call the wildcard line at area code 7.
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pressing option 5 and dialing toll free, 800-893-0903.
From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell.
We are going to take predictions, mainly tomorrow night, I think, along with a lot of other things, from the really talented.
Now, that's my appeal.
Not just somebody out there.
Taken a... a wag.
You know, that's wild form of guess, but somebody really talented to do this sort of thing.
With regard to something that's about to happen, now again, you know, again, anybody can do them for things that are gonna happen way down the line.
I want something... I want something that's about to happen to us.
You gotta like this bridge.
we'll be right back let's go east of the rockies
You are on the air.
Cheerio.
Hi Art.
Hi there.
Barry from Pennsylvania.
Hello Barry.
Hey, I want to speak to you about the Iraq situation.
I've been seeing in the news where we've been dropping bombs there in Fallujah, taking out houses one by one.
And personally, I think that's about the best thing that we could do in there.
I want to know your opinion, what you think we could do to either get out of there or stop this beheading and put us in a better direction over there.
Beats the hell out of me.
And I've really thought about it, too.
I was very much against this before we did it.
And I think, speaking of talent, maybe I had a little.
I kind of foresaw this and said so way before the war.
But now that we're there, we've got to figure out a way to win.
And I'll tell you something, sir, our country can't afford Another Vietnam.
You know what Vietnam did to us?
It demoralized our military for a generation.
It demoralized Americans for a generation.
It really screwed us up.
And so we've got to figure a way to get out of there with our heads held high.
And I don't know what that is.
No, I don't know.
I just feel that the bombing that's going on, it's starting to wake these people up a little bit.
Well, I don't understand why we didn't go in there from the beginning.
Yeah, but look, sir.
Look, the Israelis do that, don't they?
They blow up Palestinians' homes and stuff like that, and what does it get them?
But you have to admit, with the Palestinian situation, it has slowed down.
No, if you're asking me if blowing up houses over there is going to do it, I'd say probably not.
I mean, I understand perhaps why they're doing it, I just don't think it's going to do it.
And you think that... I think we'd better find something that will do it, or we're going to have another Vietnam, and the last damn thing we need.
I can't say the gentleman's name, but it's Al Suwari.
They're saying that he's the main culprit behind everything.
It's just too much like Osama Bin Laden was behind everything.
Yeah, well, you always gotta have somebody, you know.
And if it wasn't him, it would be somebody else.
It was an honor to speak to you.
It was an honor to have you call.
Thank you very much, and take care.
Uh-uh.
I don't have the answers, and I've really thought quite hard about it, because I think we've got to figure some way to essentially win.
You can use the word win, I guess, if you want to.
And I want to.
We've got to go out of there with our heads held high about what we did.
It's not looking too good right now, and do I see the way to do that right now?
I really don't.
I guess what we're doing, or maybe not.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello.
Hey.
Yeah, I do have a prediction for you, Art.
Oh, something about to happen.
Yes, indeed.
OK.
About last November, I got a very strong feeling about this.
So I started telling my friends and family and I still stick by it.
And the prediction is 28th of August or thereabouts.
I would say last week of August, first of September, first week of September.
But I'm pretty well got a feeling about the 28th.
We'll be yanking Osama out of some cave in Afghanistan.
Our spec op guys will be doing it.
Osama gets caught, huh?
Yanked out of a cave.
Yanked out of a cave.
Yeah.
He's probably in a cave somewhere, all right.
Yeah, and I'm really good at feeling about the 28th.
I stand by that.
But as I say, you know, I give the two-week time frame last week of August.
Well, maybe you're not prepared to answer this, but I might as well ask, if we get Osama, do you think or have any view on how that would affect terror?
Honestly, right off the hip, I don't think it'll do a damn thing.
In fact, if anything, it's only going to fuel the fires of hatred that already we're suffering from.
And that doesn't mean that I don't think that capturing him is the right thing to do.
I just think that what we're in is a situation that we're never going to see the end of, unfortunately.
I believe that we're looking at an Orwellian perpetual conflict.
You know, John Hogue, who's about to come on here at the top of the hour, says that Nostradamus predicts a certain number of years of terrorist wars.
That we're in right now, and he will tell us how many years of war we have yet to go.
How long do you think this war, this terrorism thing, is going to go on?
Gosh, realistically?
That's almost like predicting the Armageddon situation, but I have to say, right now, as we're looking at it, we're at least in a two-decade period of of a Vietnam-type situation that's going to go from the Middle East to Southeast Asia to probably right back around here to the good old United States.
If you were President of the United States and they started a campaign of beheading American after American after American, how would you respond?
How would I respond?
Yes, sir.
I would throw caution to the wind and I'd take the battle onto the streets myself.
In a way that I can't answer exactly, specifically what I would do, but there comes a time where we just have to take matters in our own hands as citizens and say that enough is enough.
I appreciate your call, thank you.
You know, you may recall, I didn't get as excited about the so-called torture that went on in Iraq at the hands of The U.S.
or whoever.
You know, as a lot of people did, because, you know, whatever it was, and probably wasn't good, you know, but we were trying to get people to answer questions to save American lives!
And war is really a rotten thing.
So what we did over there really wasn't the worst.
You know, I mean, if you want to look at beheading people, beheading Americans, well, that's pretty bad.
And it just doesn't... You know, on the one hand, some embarrassment-type torture that we may have done, and on the other hand, cutting off of heads.
There's no balance there at all.
None.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Yes.
Yeah, hi, Eric.
Hi.
Bless you and Ramona and your feline friends.
Thank you.
Where are you?
I'm calling.
I'm listening on 650 KST Sacramento.
All right.
OK, my prediction is September the 15th.
There's going to be two nuclear detonations.
Oh, that's a big one.
All right.
One in Washington, D.C.
Wait a minute.
Washington, D.C., OK.
And one in Los Angeles.
And one in D.C.
Holy mackerel.
Alright, then let me ask you a little bit about how you receive, that's very specific information, isn't it?
Yes.
How does it come to you?
I just don't know on my car.
I was sitting down on a cooler and in my garage and I just I thought it was just like it happened right in front of me.
OK.
How long ago?
A week.
I've never had such a thing happen.
I always even had them to call because it just, what I saw, it was just so, it wasn't
a dream, it was like I saw it.
I've never, I have never had such a thing happen.
I've had a little brush with immediate precognition, so, okay, I've got you down.
Thank you very much.
This is one of the reasons that I guess I'm so fascinated with all this, and that is because I really did have my own precognitive moment, without question.
There was no question about it.
It only ever happened one time, and it was something that immediately occurred.
And so I, you know, not in a million years would I rule out the possibility for people predicting things through what talent and what means, whether it's looking through time or, you know, what do you suppose it is?
Looking through time, are these men and women, and mostly men, I might add, who make, predict, well, of course, Gene Dixon, men and women, are they looking through time Or what mechanism is allowing some very select few people to look into the future and see what's going to happen?
Any thoughts on that?
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Art, this is Zach from Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Hello.
And first of all, I'd like to say it is an honor and pleasure to speak with you.
Thank you.
Okay, I'm calling regarding the saga of Mel's Hole.
Mel's Hole?
Indeed, Mel's Hole.
Yes.
Okay, so the first time I heard it, I was quite taken with the genuine nature of Mel's report, despite the far-fetched or out-there nature of the story.
And upon hearing it, I relayed the story to a friend of mine at school in Minneapolis, and hearing it, he was taken with it as well.
Did he get to hear the program?
Ah, yes, I actually got it off, he listened to it on Streamlit.
Alright.
Okay, and, um, in response, he has taken a journey, now, uh, he left yesterday, to Washington, in search of Mel's hole, using a GPS coordinate, which he is quite familiar with.
He's, uh, he heads up a GPS club at the university here.
Okay.
And, uh, I just wanted to let you know that's going on and wanted to know if you'd be interested in hearing his report.
Well, yes, of course I would.
I would be interested in knowing what he intends to do should he find Mel's hole.
What's he going to do?
Is he going to... what?
I'm not entirely sure.
I think the main purpose is to see if it can be located and or accessed.
Suppose it is, though.
Then what?
Well, what would you do when you reach a place like Mel's home?
I don't know.
Probably what Mel did.
He put a weight on something and lowered it as far as he could, trying to figure out if there really was a bottom.
That's the test you would do, I would think.
What else?
Maybe throw a rock?
I don't know.
I'm not sure about that.
I think more in his mind, it was with all the government involvement with roping it off, as it were, The location.
Yes.
He intends to see if it is accessible.
And if it is accessible, to identify the hole, or at least the location, and report back.
Alright, yes.
Have your friend email me with a phone number or some way to get hold of him.
Alright?
Okay, thank you very much.
You're very welcome.
Take care.
Good luck.
Why are people so fascinated with holes in the ground?
You ever wondered about that?
I think the answer is because it's the ground we walk on all the time and we know so doggone little about it.
Right?
We really don't know much about the ground we walk on, which is kind of laughable when you think of how we cry to be in space and on other worlds.
We don't know much about this one.
What goes on down below the surface?
Whether there might be a lot more than meets the mind?
I mean, we really don't know what's way down there, do we?
Deepest hole ever put in the ground was done by the Russians who made that recording.
So we don't know a lot about under in the middle of the earth.
I love movies about the middle of the earth.
There was a very good one recently, which I've seen now about three times.
I don't watch movies again very often.
International Line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello.
Art?
Yes.
This is Daniel from The Mountains of Ramapo.
How are you?
I'm alright.
I've always been forward-looking, and I'm actually writing a book about the end of days that might come out in the next couple years.
It's a very deep work, and it's very complex and very difficult to edit, as you can imagine.
Alright, but what I am interested in is a near-term prediction event of something that's about to happen.
Okay, I'm aware of that.
Obviously, Bush being re-elected is a 50-50 chance, but I will mention that I predicted that Bush would win the first election, that he would also win the second election, and they would both be very tight races.
But beyond that, I will predict for you that, and it's not as immediate as you're looking for, but that Ariel Sharon is the final Prime Minister of Israel.
Really?
Yes, he is.
Meaning what?
Meaning that Israel shall be destroyed or what?
No.
No, no.
Certainly not.
What then?
That there will no longer be a Prime Minister of Israel following Sharon's conclusion as Prime Minister.
Why?
So then what were we going to be left with?
Well, there will be a time when there actually will be no Prime Minister, but following the end of his reign, after a gap in time, Perhaps of nine months, when there is no leader in the country.
Now, how does that happen, though?
I mean, Israel has a constitution and so forth, so how does this come to pass?
Right.
What happens is, the government of Israel, as we know it today, the state of Israel, which is ruled by, let's call it a non-religious government, which historically has never occurred in Israel, throughout its long 3,000 year history, I've heard that already.
I mean, I'm asking you the mechanism.
How does it end?
Do they just say we don't want any more government?
Well, it's a long, long conversation.
You're right, we don't have time for a long conversation.
Give me the short version.
The short version of it is basically that the citizenry of Israel will not stand for A non-religious prime minister leading the country down the path.
I see.
Alright, alright.
Well, thank you very much.
I'll put that down, but I don't know, that sounds more like a personal bias than a short-term prediction to me.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Yeah, I wanted to make a prediction.
It's actually going to be a major disaster in 2005.
Actually, it comes from my spiritual teacher, who's an Indian saint.
What manner of disaster?
She hasn't clarified exactly.
She said it could be a natural disaster, it could be a volcano, but it's going to be so major it's going to make 9-11 look like nothing.
Really?
It's going to affect the whole world and it's actually probably going to bring people more to God because it's going to affect the whole economic system.
Not just America, the whole world.
Why do you feel that this lady is right?
I mean, what gives you faith that she knows what she's predicting?
Just because all that she's done in the past.
Her name is Amiti.
She's a saint from South India.
She started all kinds of charities throughout India and the whole world.
How did you find out about the prediction?
She actually publicized it last summer on her summer tour to the United States.
She's always traveling around the whole world.
When she came to the United States last summer, she wrote an open letter declaring that this was going to happen in 2005.
She actually encouraged people to pray for peace.
Recently, last September of 2004, there was a big birthday in India honoring her, where hundreds of thousands of people from all over the world came.
She wanted people to pray for peace.
In order to minimize the damage from this impending disaster.
So she obviously feels that prayer has the power to change events.
Yes, if not prevent the event, at least minimize the damage from the upcoming event.
So that's what she feels, that by the world praying and individuals praying for peace, we can minimize the negative effects from this event.
Right, I've got it.
Alright, thank you very much.
So something major that'll make what happened at the Twin Towers and Pentagon look like nothing in 2005.
Okie dokie, coming up John Hoag and we're going to talk about the predictions of Nostradamus.
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To use those things, our memories hoard, possibly to prophesize?
What do you think?
We're about to take a ride with John Hogue.
John Hogue Writes on the subjects of the occult, parapsychology, mysticism, prophecy.
He actually is considered a world authority on Nostradamus, a world authority, and is the best-selling author of numerous books, including Nostradamus, The Complete Prophecies, and Nostradamus, The New Millennium, The Millennium Book of Prophecy, The Last Pope and Messiahs, The Visions and Prophecies for the Second Coming, His work has brought him international acclaim.
He's been published in 18 languages, sold over a million copies worldwide.
In addition, has appeared on over 700 radio and TV shows across three vast continents.
in a moment john ho
and by the way uh... just a quick program no uh...
Tomorrow night I'm going to be really flying to be back here.
I've got to go to our local radio station, you know, KNYE here in Pahrump, and choreograph the fireworks that our community is going to blast into the sky tomorrow night.
I'll tell you something.
This little town of Pahrump, by the way, is supposedly the second fastest growing town in America, according to the New York Times.
Can you believe that?
Oh man, it's going wild around here.
Grumpy is going absolutely berserk.
New York Times had it.
Anyway, we have this monstrous, monstrous in the desert celebration.
I mean, they really rock and roll out here with the Fourth of July.
And so I'll be dashing back here after choreographing that stuff.
And that's gonna be a lot of fun tomorrow night, but I'll just barely, barely make it back here.
That's tomorrow night, when we're also going to be doing predictions.
Now, not the usual predictions, but I'm looking for the truly talented out there, and I'm going to have a talk with John Hogue about this in a second, but I am convinced there are people, not just the man Nostradamus and some select few others, but actually quite a few who are able to do this, and probably on a regular basis.
I'm sure they don't go around telling people a lot, Maybe close family members like that man did, but generally they don't, you know, hold themselves out as a prophet and say what they know, but there are people who know these things.
And so we're going to do a night of very short-term stuff that's about to happen, John.
That's what I'm going to ask my audience, to predict something that's just about Something really pending, not far out, but pretty soon.
First of all, I kind of wonder, John, how you feel about that.
Nostradamus, obviously, was exceptionally talented, but not alone.
I mean, there are other people who can do this, aren't there?
Well, after 30 years, Art, of studying this subject of the ability to predict the future, I've come across at least 200 people pass a very harsh regimen of documented prophecies from the last 5,000 years.
There you go.
Now, the problem with documentation is that the termite of time obviously eats up most records, so I'm sure there are many, many more.
The termite of time never gets to my lists.
I do, I write them all down, you know, I keep track of them, and I've had some... How many termites out there in the desert?
Remarkable hits, really, I have.
I mean, so there are talented people, and I'm going to ask a bunch of questions.
It might apply to Nostradamus, it might apply to all the people that we're talking about right now, but the one thing I really want to know, probably you're not going to be able to answer, John, or maybe you can go ahead and take a shot at it, but I want to know through Through what medium?
Through what mechanism?
What power?
How is this done by people like Nostradamus and other seers?
I had one little giant experience, you can believe that, little, because it's only one, but precognitive thing of something that virtually happened right away.
So I could believe that people's brains could see things that would be far off or even near-term.
I can buy that.
To answer that question, I have to ask you a question about the moment.
What space were you in in the moment when you had this epiphany?
I was watching CBS Evening News.
I was sitting on my couch.
You know, the audience has heard this.
I don't want to bore them.
It was so strong that when it happened, it brought me to my knees.
And then, of course, the event occurred immediately.
Someone hit my car, you know, so I don't want to tell a little story.
Well, no, the details, if I'd be more specific, the details are not as important as the space that you were in, in the moment that you could see what was coming.
Were you in kind of a gap?
No, I was off work, came home, turned on the evening news to watch it, and that was it.
I was watching the news.
It came over me.
You were relaxed, and an unguarded moment came up on you.
It came on like crashing ocean waves, so strong that I couldn't ignore it.
It was incredible, from that point of view.
From my many case studies, I would say that I imagine before that crash of almost like an endorphin rush, That's it.
Eureka kind of happened to you.
I would imagine there was an infinitesimal moment where your mind ceased to think.
Your hopes and fears about whatever was going on in the moment had relaxed.
Maybe.
And in that unguarded moment, your mind actually touched upon the potential that all human minds have to See and be aware and expand their awareness beyond this present moment, into the past, into the future, and into the eternity of the present.
I don't remember being in that condition, John.
I know, I'm putting words to it.
You are, because it wasn't there.
I was just watching the evening news.
The problem is that it's a very atomically small moment that a lot of people John, nor am I even trying to suggest that what happened to me is what gave Nostradamus his prophecy.
I'm not even trying to suggest that.
It's hard to deal with something... Look, this is what I'm trying to do.
I'm trying to talk about Technicolor with black and white words.
John, nor am I even trying to suggest that what happened to me
is what gave Nostradamus his prophecy.
I'm not even trying to suggest that. I understand.
I'm just saying that happened to me, so I can believe that other human minds are,
for example, able to do what Nostradamus did, many others in the audience, I think, can do.
I was just wondering what the mechanism is.
The mechanism is a completely relaxed mind.
The mechanism is when your thoughts cease, when you're in a Cool and quiet space.
Now this can come through great ritual like Nostradamus did to create it.
It can come in a split second so quick that the conscious mind cannot even grasp it as it passes.
When you look at the study of Nostradamus, there's a few references to what happened to him when he went into a secret study over 450 years ago and locked the door in South France.
Can you tell me a little of the early Nostradamus?
Do you have any idea how he stumbled upon his own ability?
How did he recognize it and when?
Do you know?
Well, he admits that it is a hereditary gift.
Nostradamus, do you know how he, have any idea how he stumbled upon his own ability?
How did he recognize it and when?
Do you know?
Well, he admits that it is a hereditary gift.
So what that can mean is a couple things.
That it is a genetic predisposition, or it's a genetic predisposition that is encouraged
by family members who have had the same experience.
So he was a child that did not learn the tension that most of us learn that when we have experiences, our parents or our pedagogues or our priests say, no, no, you're imagining things.
Yeah.
Spifle that if you want our love and our food and our care.
And to give you an example, I've come across fortunate moments where I've met little children who come up to me and say, ìOh yeah, that happened to me as well when I was old.î And I say, ìOh, and you were old, but you're a little boy.
What do you mean?î And he says, ìNo, in my last life, I was old like that guy over there, and I got gray, and I got old, and all that.î And what I've noticed with certain Children often will talk in this way, and parents who've already been programmed to shut down their own intuition... Shut it down.
Yeah, they say, now, son, you're talking crazy.
Yes, I know.
And so, most of this magic that we're born with is stifled by the age of five.
But fortunately, the system that is trying to stifle it is imperfect, so it can always be reawakened.
Well, in the specific case of Nostradamus, do you have any knowledge about when in his life he realized this?
When it began?
How early?
Well, it would seem that it was after the shock of his wife dying, his first wife and children dying of the plague in Agen, in the 1530s, late 1530s.
It seems to have happened when he had reached the pinnacle There's indications that he obviously in his own writings had this awareness that there was a second sight and he might have even been studying it as he was getting his apothecary degree and later his medical degree which led to him reaching the pinnacle of anybody of his station as a Christianized Jew becoming a doctor.
So you believe it was concurrent with a lot of this and he kept it quiet, silent, secret?
Perhaps.
We don't know.
Except we do know this, that when a great tragedy happened to him that shook the whole foundations of his perceptions and values, that shock seemed to set him on the course to becoming a mystic.
Your wife and your children dying in the plague would sure do the trick.
And then the inquisition coming.
And then the family of the wife suing you for the dowry and winning in a very public trial.
One blow to the ego after the other.
And finally, the Inquisition inquiring about something he said in his heyday.
I don't get it.
You know, you just said that and I didn't know that was history.
I didn't know that was part of his history.
He was sued for the dowry by the family of the wife?
Yes.
On the basis of the fact that what?
She died with the children in the plague?
Well, he's a doctor and people thought in their mob common sense that a doctor who can cure other people shouldn't have his wife and children die.
If he does, the superstition dictates that he must be in league with the devil.
Wow!
This is unfortunately the kind of superstition that was quite rife at that time.
Also, the statement he made, which got him in trouble with the Inquisition, sounded very Calvinist.
Boy, I mean, think about it.
They bitch about, you know, baseless litigation these days.
Well, in those days, you could get burned at the stake for it or put in the dock guilty before proven innocent, even much more than today.
We have made some improvements, Al.
Alright, so this atmosphere, of course, is what accounts for his laying all these out in these seemingly difficult to interpret quatrains, right?
Well, the reason why, his sight, he was convinced he had, and I believe he did have a sight to see the future because of many things I've seen over the last 30 years in studying him.
And seeing actually the evolution of some interpretations come true, one of them being what happened with 9-1-1, which I've been commenting on, showing signs of some attack on New York.
I started in 1983 to write articles and later books evolving an interpretation about a couple things that we might talk about tonight.
One is His prophecy is concerning what looked like an attack on New York that we know it was about New York as being the code name Great New City at 45 degrees latitude.
If the French tried to warn the Americans before it happened that the attack was imminent, and as far back as 83 I was saying, well if this is a nuclear or nuclear terrorist attack on New York, of course I was seeing it in the In the veil of Cold War perceptions, as many prophets and prophets' interpreters of the time were doing.
So initially I was saying, well, it sounds like an attack on New York, where the Hollow Mountains fall into a tub, a boiling cauldron, which is the other term for tub in the old French word that Nostradamus uses, and they will want verification from the French when this is happening.
As far back as 1983, I started putting together a prophecy interpretation that said this was about an attack on New York.
Now, when 1993 happened and the two Twin Towers of the World Trade Center were attacked, unfortunately, unsuccessfully, by a car bomb in a truck that was underneath the In the subterranean parking lot, with the intention of toppling one tower into the other.
Absolutely.
I wrote in Nostradamus' The New Millennium and Nostradamus' The Complete Prophecies, I updated and evolved the interpretation of this, saying, well, as we get closer to advent, I mean, a theory that I run that folks who want to cram me up a preconceived conclusion that interpretation should just stand rigid and not change.
I don't understand that the future is as dynamic as the present, and that there are a lot of signs in Nostradamus' prophecies that there are alternative futures that look like they were going somewhere but hit a dead end.
Now, with that in mind, there seems to be timelines, quantum futures, that are indicating That one should always be open to a new interpretation, with the theory being that if you get closer to the times, the clues make more sense.
Obviously, if some strange clue doesn't make a lot of sense 100 years ago, 200 years ago, it can make more sense closer to the mark.
For instance, clues like, in the path of the Hollow Mountains, It was one of the phrases of the two prophecies concerning 9-1-1, and when you realize there's the Path Subway and Hollow Mountains could be a 16th century man's attempt to describe 110-story buildings.
And the second plane that crashed into the South Tower actually cast its shadow over the Hudson River right above the underground submarine railway known as the Path Subway.
John, quick question.
Isn't it an awfully thin line between... I mean, have you ever wondered about yourself, John?
Isn't it a thin line between being a successful interpreter of the Quatrains and being something of a prophet yourself?
It's an awfully thin line.
It's even thinner than that.
It's a balancing on a razor's edge.
So have you ever wondered about yourself?
I run from the point of view, from the theory that my life is a test of, that everyone has the ability to see the future, to see the future potentials, the stressed potentials, because the future is not written in stone.
It is as dynamic as the present because we're changing the future right now.
Some are more talented than others, John, and you're more talented than others.
I would redefine it as somehow I got through the conditioning process broken.
I didn't become a completely efficient machine according to How this process, which is very ancient of us, this process of conditioning, which comes from our animal past.
There's nothing wrong with the animals being from an animal past, but a lot of things that we consider human about us are actually a form of mechanical, instinctive imperative.
That is fundamentally against us waking up from its machine.
Back on November 12, 2000, on this program, you said that if President Bush was president, he'd get America stuck on the ground in a major war in the Middle East, most likely, with Iraq at the end of 2002, predicted it would be America's second Vietnam, right?
Yes, that is correct.
Alright, well I want to talk to you about that.
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Oh yeah.
And I had left my youth in me in quite a single way.
The mystery book of a child.
It's all to be itself.
Waluigi, I was defeated, you walked alone.
Waluigi, I promise you'll love me forevermore.
Waluigi, couldn't escape me.
Why, Waluigi?
Waluigi, knowing my fate is to be with you.
Oh, oh, oh, oh.
Waluigi, finally facing my war.
I tried to hold you back, but you were stronger.
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Do you think we're all puppets on a string?
Did you ever wonder about that?
I mean, you know, that it's my destiny right now to be sitting here and doing a talk show with John Hoag on Nostradamus.
And it's your destiny to be doing whatever you're doing and listening to it.
Or whatever else in life.
that all, everything is predetermined, preordained, and those who are reading the future are simply looking
at sort of a book that's already, they're reading a book that's already been written and it's going to unfold
page after page and paragraph after paragraph.
Yeah, we'll ask a little bit about destiny, but first this prediction.
You know, November 12, 2000, you said that if Bush got to be president, he'd get America stuck on the ground in a major war in the Middle East, most likely Iraq that would be just second Vietnam for America.
That's one hell of an accurate prediction from today's perspective, isn't it?
Unfortunately, yes.
One I would wish was completely wrong, but maybe we can still make it wrong.
How is this derived?
Well, it's derived from a study of predictive astrology, a study of Nostradamus' prophecies related to a second crusade in Mesopotamia, which is referred to in his 33rd quatrain of Volume 6 of his History of the Future, The Prophecies, and it's probably written in 1556, and this and several other prophecies related to a key figure who is a man in black that would trigger a widespread war out of this area of Mesopotamia, is you take all those factors
You take as many empirical factors as you can and extrapolate objective trends and then at a certain point you also have to liberate yourself from all that and also bring in the subjective.
The work of prophecy is basically finding the sweet point between objective study and subjective flights of insight.
The process is as individual and private and unique as it is for every person.
How you come to it, how I come to it, how anyone comes to it is individual.
Well, that's why I asked you about that very thin line.
It seems to me like you're about to cross it.
Sometimes I'm not.
Sometimes what I'm seeing is nothing more than my hopes and fears projected from my subconscious.
Yes, well you apparently have learned to tell the difference.
Well, I kind of run on the theory that if, and I think it's very important, and I would suggest also to everyone tomorrow who is going to make their predictions on your show, is to kind of watch for those tricks of the mind.
that come up in the name of prophecy.
Alright, how does my audience differentiate as they're trying to spend a quiet contemplative moment and they're really trying to come up with something to say on this program should they get through tomorrow how should they, what state of mind should they put themselves in?
Well, they need to, the first thing they need to do is drop all goals.
All goals?
All goals of Trying to obtain some future understanding, trying to obtain anything, because one thing that Nostradamus seemed to imply in his occult prophecies that hint at how he would prepare himself is he had to get out of his own way.
You only get it if you don't really want it?
You only get it if you neither want it or don't want it.
Oh boy.
It's something similar to what the Buddhists call the Middle Way.
You're neither For or against it?
Then, it's almost like what you've done with your mind and your body and your emotions is make them become something like an open window.
And then it depends on what the sky wishes to bring in.
If nothing comes, nothing comes.
Right.
Such is the case.
In which case, don't call me!
Alright, but if something comes whizzing through and hits you like a And I would add, if it comes in whizzing through, be mindful that so much of how we interpret what whizzes through is colored by our hopes and fears.
And oftentimes when you study prophecy, you look at a certain prophecy and how it's been interpreted over the centuries, you often see people coloring it with their own hopes and fears.
And a study of Nostradamus is very valuable in that way, and like in my book, Nostradamus and the Complete Prophecies, which look at all of his major prophecies, and from that book, the prophecies that she wrote, started in 1555 and finished in 1560.
I show, sometimes I'll do something with a prophecy where you'll see this incredible interpretation from the 17th century that's like, yeah, that's got to be about that.
And then the next paragraph just Take that and throws it in the dumpster, and then gives you an interpretation coming from the 19th century, which just was like, wow, it equally sounds like that's exactly what it is.
And then I give my interpretation from this time, and it's like you've got three interpretations that look like, wow, this is it.
They all can't be it.
But what it is, at least it's showing us, when I do that occasionally and interpreting the prophecies, I'm trying to use this as a device to help the reader understand just how easily we can put our own expectations on the flypaper of Nostradamus's obscurity.
John, do you think that the people, many of them listening in this audience right now, who know how to do this, that they hide the fact uh... or if not hide it then still simply don't
talk about it i mean are are there a lot of them like that out there maybe they
tell family close members maybe they don't
maybe they keep this to themselves
i don't know this may be a fairly common ability much more common than we know because people don't
talk about and the reason they don't talk about it is that this
kind of conditioned uh... have lovian
reactive way in which we we're trained to just sort of hold on to borrowed ideas and identities when we come into
life we adopted name and nationality all these things that there's
a certain uh...
program in that that says anybody breaks out of that system is an anomaly to that system so any i mean look at how or
put simply they'll say he's what crazy as a little
Yeah, and so you see it's not encouraged Yeah, I know.
and and and even more month seemingly mundane things uh...
uh... an insight into a better automobile engine insight into a better
way to fly uh... e people are predisposed to be afraid
contest afraid to to
see new things because uh... we're
we're kind of habitually would prefer to even embrace a prison because it's in
our if our life is a prison because it's a prison
uh... profits insightful visionaries of any ilk
are always breaking out of that mold and so for the majority of them that just just don't have
an opportunity or or just feel like a big question doing and i do believe
there are many many people out there
and they write to me so many of them saying that yeah i thought that too but i just can't talk
about it now Some of them are even writing to me from Muslim countries and other countries, and they say, my culture, if I started talking about that.
So the answer is yes.
There's people all around the world that are saying yes.
I've got that.
All right.
As I came out of the last commercial break, I was sort of musing about whether prophets are reading from a book that's already been written.
You know, paragraph, sentence for sentence, paragraph by paragraph, chapter by chapter.
Is everything predestined?
Otherwise, and if not, then how are people able to read what will happen in the future?
It does make you think about that possibility.
It has to.
It's one of the fundamental questions to meditate on, if you're a studyer of prophecy.
And after 30 years, my conclusion at this point is that it only appears to be predictable and written, because we are training each generation to be so mechanical.
And here's an interesting reason why that could be changing.
Back in the book, Millennium Book of Prophecy, I wrote a timeline which showed the most difficult form, most difficult discipline of prophetic forecasting, which is where you predict a date, distant future date, and it comes true.
Now, you have to have a whole lot of individual and collective factors over centuries that allows that to happen.
So it's very, very hard to say, like Nostradamus did back in 1558, that in 1792 the king would be deposed by the vulgar advent of the peasants of France.
Can I ask you an off-the-wall question, John?
Yes, go ahead.
Okay, if there are certain factors and history that fits into predictive capability, Then, John, have you ever wondered whether an accurately written computer software program, given the right question, might be able to review all of its stored history and whatever all factors you put into it and actually make a prediction?
It doesn't need to be even a computer.
If you understand, I will oppose to you that if If you have an intuition into the ways people are programmed to repeat the past and call it the future, it doesn't take a lot of clairvoyance to predict a lot of things.
For instance, like the note I sent you for this show concerning this strange echo, karmic
echo, 40-year cycle of events that happened back in the 60s.
It seemed to be coming back again.
A karmic echo, history repeating itself, right?
Yes, because we haven't learned the lesson.
And in the note I talked about how other countries, people programmed to consider themselves Germans
or Russians, they all follow a similar education that feeds them to repeat lessons collectively
Alright, define this karmic echo for me.
You're saying we're having a karmic reaction now to what we did in the 60s, is that correct?
Yes.
And what did we do in the 60s to earn what we've got today?
Let's look at some things.
I'm going to give you some elements initially, and then we'll go in more depth about it.
But just to touch on it, isn't it interesting that Back in 2000, we had a Vice President lose a very close disputed election from a man named JFK, Vice President Richard Nixon, who was asked by some of his advisors to protest what he figured was an illegal election.
And he decided not to protest it and let things pass.
Now, 40 years later, in 2000, A Democrat Vice President, eight years in office, runs into the same disputed state in a very close election, and he does not actually step back and let things lie.
He protests it.
Notice that in approaching 2004, we have a JFK, a John Forbes Kerry.
We had a John Fitzgerald Kennedy 40 years or so back.
Now it's slightly off, but the element is still there in time.
You had a Texan president, Lyndon Baines Johnson, who on a misunderstanding and a botched intelligence report on the Gulf of Tonkin incident, gets America into Vietnam on the ground and over North Vietnam bombing.
You think the Gulf of Tonkin was botched intelligence?
Yes, there is indication, even McNamara admitted it, that they actually after a week realized that there were no patrol boats from North Vietnam attacking U.S.
destroyers.
It was then a reason that since they were already engaged in the war that they would do, as 40 years later has happened with weapons of mass destruction in another Texan president's war, decided to change the reason why we were there.
Not because of an incident of weapons of mass destruction, not because of an incident 40 years ago in Vietnam because of Gulf of Tonkin, but for the greater strategic struggle that they had 40 years ago with communism, we have with the war on terror.
What is our current reason for being in Iraq?
That's a whole other issue beyond the 40-year cycle, and it's a good issue.
I could get into that, but maybe we hold on that question and stay on track with this.
The original question was whether it's all predestined, and I still want a straightforward answer to that.
Is it all unwinding as is written somewhere up on high?
No.
We are programmed to believe it is, and therefore, because we're programmed to believe it is, it looks like it is.
It looks like it is.
But it isn't.
And to get back to the whole thing that proved it for me, the dated predictions are very dense in number up until the 21st century, and then they peter out completely.
Well, then what are you suggesting?
That things were preordained until that moment, and then they began to get more random?
What I'm saying is that something is breaking this predictability factor.
That there is a future.
Certainly there's indications of distant futures.
There are a few dates.
Nostradamus goes 1800 years ahead of this time as the end of the world in the year 3797.
So there are enough indications to show that there's still history going on, but it's harder for the prophets to predict what it's going to do.
Now there's a couple possibilities with that.
People start to understand that they're being programmed to repeat the future, In the 21st century, because they have to see it, because if they keep going the way they're going, they're going to end civilization.
This will be the last chance century.
Well, again, though, John, if there are certain aspects of prediction that are based on, for example, what will be karmic history, or karma from history, then it seems to me that a computer might have a chance, actually, If what you're saying is true.
Well, a computer, like I said before, a computer has a chance because it's a machine.
A human being that is programmed to behave like a machine will also be predictable.
So, of course, a computer can crunch a future, and if the future it's crunching is about people who are behaving like machines, then it's the odds are that they will do a lot of the things that are foreseen.
However, If the people stop being mechanical, if they look and see the nature of why they're programmed to repeat the past and call it the future, if in the 21st century humanity must break that pattern to survive, which I believe is what will happen.
You're sure that's just not an optimistic hope?
Remember, the future is born in the present.
It is not an optimistic hope if enough people see it.
Then it changes the future.
But then I could argue that was destined to happen all along.
You could.
You could argue that.
But you could also argue that if you don't do it, if you just follow the The process, then the world will end.
That's the other reason why.
But again, you're saying that there was a period of time when specific date predictions were made by the lot, tons and tons of them, and they were very accurate, and that ability seems to have waned or even stopped.
It stops in the 21st century.
And it stops for a couple reasons.
We either cease to exist because we're robots that break down.
I was going to say, one of them would be very worrisome.
Or, you know, the thing that gets beyond the speculation of what is and the wherefores and the why-nots of what we can do is, prophecy as I understand it, whether it's predictable or not, whether it's preordained or not, the thing that I as an individual would want to do with my life is let that burden of whether it's preordained be on someone else's divine shoulders.
I am going to do something that I can do and I'm free to do in my little life and that is stop being a program machine and be spontaneous with my future.
Alright, hold it right there, John.
On the other hand, it would be very bad if a machine could predict the future, wouldn't it?
That's something somebody, one of you computer whizzes out there might want to look at.
If there's always karma based on what we do now for the future, then that karma could be predicted by a computer.
Ay yi yi.
Probably XP could do it, huh?
From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
I'm a guy who's always looking for a way out.
We still have time, we might still get by.
Every time I think about it, I want to cry.
With bombs and the devil, the good kids keep coming.
No way to be easy, no time to be young.
To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
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From coast to coast and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
You know our guests don't get paid a penny to come on the program. John Hoag isn't getting
one red penny. So, it's very polite to plug their books for them. And John Hoag, since
he's a world-acknowledged world expert on Nostradamus, if you want to read more about
this, then here's the natural way. He's written a book called Nostradamus, A Life and Myth.
We'll ask about that. Nostradamus, the New Millennium.
And Messiahs, The Visions and Prophecies for the Second Coming.
All of these books are available, of course, at Amazon.com.
So, do some reading!
If you're interested in this whole thing, then obviously this is the man to read, and those are the books that he would like you to read.
people do it uh... remember that
and i'm sure you do too One more time, and I'm turning this car around and we're going straight home.
Every parent has said that, haven't they?
Every single parent.
All right, John Hogue is my guest, and here we go once again.
John, welcome back.
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
We're here.
That's the other thing that always comes on in the car.
Yeah, that's right.
I want to do a couple of very specific things, because you've given them to me.
You know, on the paper I get here prior to the show, there are very specific prophecies about the war we're involved in now.
For so long, people were wondering, you know, when is terrorism coming?
Well, boom, 9-11.
Now they're cutting the heads off Americans and other nationalities and, man, are we involved in a war on terror.
And there's a prediction, isn't there, that this is going to go on for, what, 27 years?
27 years.
The War of the Third Antichrist, it's called, in Nostradamus.
Quatrain 77 of Century 8, and it's tied into another famous quatrain that most interpreters think alludes to this Third Antichrist in the codename of Mabus, M-A-B-U-S.
Right.
And what makes a lot of interpreters think that there's a correlation is that the two quatrains tend to have, in different words, but a similar impact, and basically the impact, the import is That this figure, unlike the other two figures, which was called Hister, for Hitler, and Paul Néal-Héran, which is an anagram Népalenois, Napoleon King, this third one, Mabus, is the first to die in his war.
Actually, the real war begins when he's extinguished, not whatever fighting is It's just a preamble to the real war which is caused because of his fall.
And who do you think this is?
There are a number of people I've been looking at as candidates since 1986.
The current candidates of interest, some of them come, some of them go.
It depends on events.
For a long, long time, you know, we talked through the 90s about Saddam Hussein as being one of the key figures that could be this person.
Then the rise of Osama bin Laden came, and Osama bin Laden also spells out the name Mabus.
You take the B from bin, you have M-double-A-U-S, replace the redundant A with a B, you have Mabus.
Classic anagramming.
So that puts him how high on your list?
He's right up there in the top three.
Now, because of this, you had a questioner in your first hour talk about Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
Now, Abu Musab is interesting because he Another form of anagramming is where you drop the first and last letter and leave the middle letters.
So you drop M and S, you have Abu out of Malus, which is father in Arabic.
And he would be where on the list?
Well, when you add to that, because many, many Arab men are called Abu, it's like saying, oh, the guy's name is Joe.
You know, it's a lot of people named Joe, so what makes it more interesting is the fact that Musab, in phonetic Roman letters from the Arabic, has all the letters of Mabus in it.
And another interesting drop, if you drop the M and B, you get USA, which is kind of an interesting anagram, because there's another famous anagram which talks about a war, That seems to be about the two rivers of Iraq, the Tigris and Euphrates, and an anagram about something called Alus.
Let me finish with this.
If you understand that some of these are in French, Alus, A-L-U-S, is actually you take the L, that's the L abbreviated for Le, In French, you have l'U.S.A., out of Allos, which is the U.S.A.
So it links up with a man who is fitting the anagram for Mabus, who is active in Iraq as a terrorist, and is somehow linked to a fight with the U.S.A., the U.S.A.
We're trying to kill all these men you mentioned.
Yes, and the other thing, too, is that it's very likely that Abu Masab al-Zarqawi is another attempt of making a boogeyman out of somebody, making him bigger than he really is.
But in prophecy, that doesn't matter.
If the perception is he's big, and if his death, even if we are the ones creating his myth of importance, If the myth is believed, then the myth makes the future.
That's like voodoo.
Well, it is actually... In other words, it can happen to you if you believe it can.
Because belief is based fundamentally on ignorance.
It's putting your trust on ignorance rather than direct experience.
And it is a known fact amongst mystics and practitioners of meditation that If you live by belief or ignorance, you are prone to be very mechanical and predictable, which is what we were talking about in the last two hours, that we are like that computer that makes a predictable future until we stop acting like a computer.
But we already have, really.
I mean, if what you have said earlier is accurate, we've already begun to deviate from the very predictable past, right?
We have the chance in the 21st century.
We're not quite there yet.
The time when things come unglued, as far as that predictability, is in the 2020s.
That's what the datings and the descriptions of prophecies, what indicate climate disruption and other fundamental breakdowns that force human beings to look at the whole spectrum of their civilization, from the economy, from their religions, from everything, and say, you know, we don't have a future if we keep going the way we're going, so we have to change.
Alright, well, a lot of key questions are involved in all of this, like whether Osama Bin Laden will be captured and or killed or whatever, whether we'll get him, and then, of course, whether we can have another 9-11 or even larger event than 9-11 occur.
What do you say?
Well, it is, in a war that lasts 27 years, it's almost without any clairvoyance that if that is the path we are Hypnotizing ourselves to follow by not learning karmic lessons, then yes, there will be another attack.
It takes no profit to see that.
The question is exactly when.
I am more of the mind to think that it will be somewhere around 2008, not so soon.
And the reasons that I come to that, well, partially they're objective reasons and also through intuition.
Well, one of the most subjective reasons is that you hear probably a lot on your shows about 2012, the Mayan calendar.
It's amazing how much hype has been put on that date, when indeed there's another calendar in prophetic events, a much larger calendar than the Mayan calendar, which covers a 26,700 year period called the Cosmic Year.
6700 year period called the cosmic year and that that's cut down into months that
That's where you get your age of Pisces Which is like 2,000 years or so long and now we're supposed
to be entering the age of Aquarius Which is basically a new month in the 12 month year
This big, huge time clock, which has days that last 72 normal years.
36 of them are night, 36 of them are day.
Every time, if you look at every 36-year cycle, you will find significant things happening That defined how we look at everything for better or worse in the next 36 years.
For instance, count back from now to the last 36 years, and you get the period between 1972 and 1973.
Notice that that's when the war of terror in many ways began.
The Munich bombings with the The PLO became quite violent at that time.
It was the Yom Kippur War at that time.
The Arab oil embargo around that time.
The fall of Nixon and the creating of this evolution of people feeling disassociated with their government in America started at that time.
These have dictated and colored a lot of our actions for the next 36 years.
And what I'm saying is that the people who are looking at 2011-2012 as the significant time are missing the point that it's coming a few years earlier than that.
You think around 2008?
2008-2009 you're going to see major events that will define the next 36 years of history, which happen to be some of the most volatile years of history coming, where we enter an evolutionary crisis.
So I'm basically saying That by 2008, it's going to become very apparent to many of us that we have entered the crisis where we have to stop being predictable, or we won't survive.
So, because human beings always have a will to survive, I trust that we will drop those fossilized ideas that are making us self-destruct.
Well, that's certainly the half-full glass of water way of looking at it.
I hope you're right.
But history doesn't necessarily show you to be right, does it?
No, and basically one of the things that will happen in that 36 year period, and there's prophets that have talked about it, and I've talked about them in my books, is that basically people at that time are going to understand that the past has betrayed us.
We have to recreate ourselves.
I suppose that as significant as when the monkeys fell out of the tree many four million years ago, And couldn't get back in, so their simian past betrayed them, so they had to go forward as human beings.
Walk around.
Yep.
And all the monkeys laughed at them, but who got the last laugh?
Oh, I don't know.
Human backs, you know, standing vertically really aren't meant to hold all that weight.
Listen, so I really want to be as specific as we can about the current war going on.
For example, you know, if a caller in the first hour asked me, You know, how I thought we could win or resolve, you know, the current crisis in Iraq.
And I told him the truth.
I'll be damned if I know.
Is there anything that you can tell us about how this will resolve?
Well, of course, in my books I go into a lot more detail.
One will have to bear with me that I'm kind of coming to the The one-liner endings, but a lot of what I'm saying is, explain in detail how I came to these ideas that we wouldn't have enough time in four hours to... Right, I'd be happy to.
I just want to preface that before I just go into what sounds like Pat, bing-bang-boom statements.
No, I got you.
There are indications in Nostradamus' prophecies that this That a country ruled under the sign of cancer and a leader under the sign of cancer would have a significant moment, a window, an opportunity to kind of review what had gone wrong in a relationship that led to a war, which is called a ruinous war under cancer, which for layman's terms is significant in that it's probably describing
Because the date and the aspects in this astrology in Nostradamus is for the year 2002, a time of great assessment after 9-1-1, a time where a country under the astrological sign of cancer was in a war.
The president is born under the sign of cancer, George W. Bush is in this war, and it was a window of opportunity for Uh, one of the combatants, the ones under cancer, to see their part in a long dysfunctional relationship with the Middle East, uh, and how, you know, certainly the other side has done a lot of evil and horrible things.
But you know, it's always, it's just like any fight you have with some adversarial situation with another human being.
Ultimately you defend yourself, but if it's a dysfunctional relationship, At a certain point, you've got to own up to your side of what made it not work.
It's just like a relationship.
And in a way, it is as simple as that.
The relationship between huge nations, huge cultures interacting with each other is fundamentally the same thing.
You're right.
So, yes, the other side has done horrible things to us.
That is a given.
But if one wants to break the cycle, Well, you hit me, and I didn't hit you, but you slugged me.
And then I react by slugging you back.
And of course, what are you going to do if you're slugged back?
You're going to slug harder.
And you get into a cycle of violence that just destroys both people until one or the other says, you know what?
I'm tired of this.
I've got to look at why you first slugged me.
Maybe I did something according to your value systems, which I don't understand.
Your value systems, your religion, your culture, I did something to you that made you so angry that you were throwing people in planes into my buildings that symbolized my wealth and my military.
The thing is, there was an opportunity in 2002 for dramatic self-examination for the United States in the situation, for their part in the war.
That window came and went.
So now, there's two ways it can go, and I was talking, I think, on George Nury's spot a few times and other people during that period, that there's two ways America, I predict, could go.
Either they could come up with a new policy that tried to understand the cultural blind spots that got us into this in the Middle East, or we would actually be more reactive Like the punch back.
More reactive than before, and actually follow our dysfunction even deeper.
Well, I don't see the glass filling with water right now.
No, it isn't.
We've done the reaction.
We've done the reaction, which means that, you know, windows come in history for opportunities for growth, and then they pass.
And then we kind of must things up again and get to a point again where we get tired of being punched and punching at people, and then we kind of sit back and go, wait, you know, I've got to see this again.
Maybe there's something I need to look at here.
The next window is 2008.
Oh.
Yeah.
So we can again either be in the punch mode then, or... The preventative and healing mode.
The understanding mode.
It's been said that, you know, it's interesting, we are so focused in the Middle East, but when you look at the history of the Middle East, I mean, sometimes it comes to me, you know, before there was oil, And before there was a need for oil, the Western world didn't give a damn about the Middle East.
Right.
Are we going to be, then, the occupiers being chipped away at in a war of attrition between now and 2008?
Well, if we perceive that we need, that it is an imperative for the survival of our Western civilization that we need the fossil fuels to run it, and since it appears that I'm not saying this is what it is.
This is one thing I'll throw out there for people to consider.
Talking on your show years ago, back in 1999, I was saying how there's indications that the oil reserves, the affordable to extract from the earth, are about to run out.
At that time, it was not talked about a lot, but now it's becoming common conversation The easily drillable oil is no longer around except for Iraq and Saudi Arabia.
So are you saying we're in Iraq for the oil?
Yes, I do.
Why else would we be there?
What other reason are we there?
Why would we ever be in the Middle East before 1950?
No argument from me.
Hold on, John.
Yeah, why else would we be there?
Well, maybe the weapons of mass destruction, the freedom for the people of Iraq from a brutal dictator.
But there are so many brutal dictators all over the world that it does cause one to imagine that the possibility of our being there for and because of the oil is really strong.
What do you think?
It's a full moon hanging over a beautiful desert tonight.
I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
I'm going to be singing a song called, I'm Going to Be Singing a Song Called,
I'm Going to Be Singing a Song Called, I'm Going to Be Singing a Song Called,
The second hand unwinds If you're lost, you can look and you will find me
Time after time If you fall, I will catch you, I'll be waiting
Time after time If you're lost, you can look and you will find me
Time after time If you fall, I will catch you, I'll be waiting
Time after time Thanks for watching!
Thanks for watching!
Do talk with Art Bell. Call the wildcard line at area code 7.
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It is.
Here's an interesting fast blast from BTK in Kansas City, Kansas, who says, I hear these liberals on coast to coast with their messages of understanding.
Frankly, I think it's all bunk.
Healing.
Ha!
Kill the enemy.
It's the only way to fix these primitives who attack us.
We didn't provoke 9-11.
Typical projection of liberal self-hatred.
sure we'll get a reaction to that from john hope in a moment
that's funny i really understand both uh... emotions that of considering
the course uh... and consequences of our actions
on the one hand, And on the other hand, I can assure you, when I read about an American getting his head cut off, I'm right down there with the best of them, right there with BTK from Kansas City.
Kill the bastards.
You know, definitely there.
So, you know, see how they hear you, John.
You're talking about sort of an irrefutable history, actually.
I mean, if you look at Vietnam, we came to such considerations after due course.
Where did all the body counting get us in Vietnam?
We're still lost.
Yeah.
So I understand the feeling.
It's like what we're saying.
I'm so glad you mentioned that.
You're right.
point of view because i could feel it feeling out there across north america
you're right and uh... it needs to be addressed i'm glad i can get a chance to
address it will give it a shot the
first off uh...
i would find it interesting how people use certain labels uh... to sound like so that other
notorious derogatory labels trouble not mention on airwaves but if you if you know although i mean
if you replace the word liberal or right wing or redneck
we have one of those derogatory label of ethnicity or religious uh... background
uh... you'll see that a lot of people apply those words in exactly the same
racist or any social work
uh... which is a new development The use of liberal or the use of conservative
Are now becoming expletive words.
That's one point.
The other point is, yes, I can understand the anger of a person seeing an American man's head sawed off, and the problem is that this is part of that punch-punch syndrome.
I can also see that people Twenty thousand Iraqis being killed by American bombs makes a lot of Iraqis feel equally angry.
And so here's the syndrome.
In the first war, John, to a large degree, we went down the trenches and buried maybe, well, untold numbers of Iraqis alive.
It was not really publicized all that much.
We raked those trenches with Apaches and then just pushed the dirt with tanks equipped with plows right over the top of the alive bodies.
We did that, John.
The thing is, it's part of what the engine that makes people predictable, which makes them victims of negative prophecies of half-full glasses of water, is that we need to go back and look at how somehow a little kid, for instance, The same person, if he were born in Iraq, and if he was conditioned to be a Muslim in Iraq, he would be saying exactly, he would be wearing the black outfit of the Muqtada al-Sadr's Al-Mahdi militia, and he'd be killing Americans who had killed his people in what he felt were terrible ways.
And this is the syndrome The nature of our programming, which makes us dehumanize other people, and do this terrible mischief with each other, which is very strange also, because in both religions that are the bastions of morality of Islam, which means to submit and surrender to God, and the Christian faith, with the Prince of Peace saying, Love thy brother as thyself.
I love your enemies.
Is there any chance... It's strange how the people don't follow their religions.
I know, I know, I know.
Is there any chance that we'll get out of Iraq, having converted Iraq into a little mini shining example of a democracy in the Middle East?
If we want it to be our kind of democracy, no.
It'll be as bad by next year as the Marvin and South Vietnam government.
We are actually repeating that echo.
Remember, there were a couple of coups of the South Vietnamese government when we were beginning to get involved in Vietnam, and we had a lot to do behind the scenes to re-establish new Governments of people synthetic to our way of life.
did you read the media here my first hour tonight on four if you're a teacher
or did you hear the story with the iraqi prime minister wants to offer amnesty to insurgents said that
uh... said that uh... he he would understand the attacks on us
troops, even people who killed U.S.
troops would be given amnesty, he's saying, and that they were legitimate acts of resistance, that is, killing Americans.
He said that.
Now, I thought that was incredible.
And I went, wow, do you think that they did it with the concurrence, you said that with the concurrence of the U.S.
in some backdoor deal, or what?
Well, again, it's another historic dysfunction of us not understanding the culture we're dealing with.
not understanding how deeply people feel about their own actually strange that we
don't understand their deep feeling of patriotism and uh...
even if it's for their own good uh... somebody look look if canada decided
that they didn't like the way
our country was doing things and they got the whole world invade america and
maybe they were right and maybe they were giving us a better form of popo
political uh...
dialogue and government established and uh... and a temporary government to make
that happen how many americans do you think would feel good about that even if
they like the changes do under others as you'd have them do under you
is one of the golden rules of many a religion
include buddhists as well as christian uh...
Buddha said it 500 years before Christ.
And it's a really fundamental, atomic thing.
It's like, if you don't want that to be done to you, you don't do it to others.
But so is an eye for an eye.
It's right there in that same category.
Yes.
And the thing is, there are a lot of Iraqi people who feel that even though their lives may be better, Than they were before in a lot of respects.
You know, if you have a program to be proud of your nation, even if somebody is doing it for your own good, look, if somebody decided they didn't like the way you set up your house in the desert and they just came in and changed it, and it was actually better for you, it's none of their business.
People have to have their own freedom to change and do things in their own good time.
No one likes to be told what to do and forced to do it, even if it's for their own good.
It's just a human nature thing, and when it comes into a collective level, where one nation dictates and pontificates what another nation should be, no nation likes to be treated that way.
So, if the people that just can't understand why Prime Minister Alawi would make such a statement, if he did, it's the first time I've heard about this statement, so I haven't corroborated it.
It just broke in the news.
It's in the AP News, so you know.
Okay, if it's AP, he probably said it.
You know, you had a similar thing the other week, just the other week, where the prince who runs Saudi Arabia also gave an opportunity for the Al-Qaeda people to basically, in his point of view, come back to Allah, come back to peace.
He gave him like a month, and then he's going to bash their heads in.
In a way, I see a similar correlation to this.
It's a cultural thing.
It's a different culture.
They have a different set of values.
And one of the things that has been historically an engine for us to repeat our mistakes and see them echoed every 40 years in this country is that this country has always had a great difficulty understanding, basically because of our natural isolationist feeling, As a hard time understanding, expects other cultures to reason and think and feel like we do.
Well, here's an extremely cynical thing for you, John.
If we end up with a regime, I'll use that word, in Iraq, that virtually is probably every bit as bad as Saddam Hussein in terms of the way he, in quotes, keeps the peace, except that he's our guy.
Will that be a satisfactory result?
In 2008, if the gas prices go up to $25 a gallon, you'll see a lot of people who put on airs of moral indignation about things on both spectrums, liberal or conservative, look the other way.
Because I'll tell you, there's interesting stories.
I had a man who took care of birds and other people who are involved in ecological things, but they were very honest and very frank of them to say, look, if my gas gets so high that I can't drive my truck and do my work and can't drive out to help the birds, I'd rather just drill in the oil any which way I could in natural places or otherwise.
You see, there's a certain facade of moral indignation in a nation until something that's more valuable to them than the abstract of being moral comes.
And I tell you, the key in America is that if it becomes too costly for us to sustain Society, you will see the draft, you will see thousands of people occupying oil regions of the world, unless we break from that and find ways to stop being addicted to this stuff.
There are many who believe the draft is coming right after the next election.
Yeah, I'm one of them.
I am one of them.
And the reason being, even though people pussyfoot around it, the reason being is, you know, if Kim Chi could run our industries, we would have invaded North North Korea by now.
If Rwanda, if guerrillas from Rwanda could run our factories, we would have stopped the 900,000 people.
I understand the parallel, but we could buy the kimchi from South Korea.
That's true, but we need a lot.
We need a lot of energy.
I do understand what you're saying.
I'm trying to use, if any of you are insulted by what I've just said, I'm just trying to use an analogy to give you a point that a lot of what motivates all countries, not just ours, and what guides the engine of predictability, because victims of bad prophecies, is that we're programmed to, by any means, to justify the end If it's for the survival of our culture, because of course, I mean, even Adolf Hitler used that with Lebensraum.
Do you see that?
Now, honestly, John, do you see that changing?
And if the answer is no, then I don't see how your glass can possibly be half full, because we're... It'll have to change.
Firmly in the cycle.
Firmly in the cycle.
We're going to do what's in our best interest.
You're just not kidding.
Well, the key is in our best interest.
When the point comes that we can't sustain A life of getting dragged down into other people's oil and other people's problems.
When it gets to a point where it just, we get tired of that, you'll also see, and I predict it on your show, that in the next, by after 2008, in the next cycle of elections, you will see a very strong movement in this country to pull back from responsibilities like this, to find ways to get free of other people's energy sources that are just running us amok.
And you will see a lot of America's involvement as a global superpower dramatically dwindle in the next five years.
Wow.
And that may be a good thing.
It could be a good thing.
For one thing, it might teach everybody who's not grown up, because they always have us to be there for them.
A lot of the rest of the world could probably do a lot of growing up without America there.
To, like, the big brother that never lets you go through your problems and always protects you?
Well, then you never grow up.
You know to some people what you're saying sounds downright anti-American.
Well, it is anti-what-you-know-about-America.
Yeah.
And there again, what I'm just giving an example here is what we spoke in the second hour about how new ideas Innovation, immediately, it's like someone puts up a label or someone shuts down, because, and I would pose to those people who are shutting down right now, if you look deep into your past, you will find a point in your life, if you look into yourself, where you were taught, like a machine, to shut down, because that's a survival mechanism you needed to get by in your life, because if you thought out of the box,
You got beaten up out of the box by people who are still in their own boxes.
So, you know, it goes back to what I'm saying about how this primal, instinctive person that we've come out... I mean, when you look at the human brain, the human brain is sitting on older versions of the brain that are mammalian and reptilian.
Yes, I know.
So, this new swelling, new big brain of ours is a new phenomenon.
It's an anomaly to our instinctive cells.
And there's a struggle going on between the more territorial mammal and more instinctive reactive reptilian brain.
It just doesn't know quite what to do with this new wiring that's expanding in us, that's giving us sentience and conscience.
Well, so far, I hate to be the guy with a half, you know, empty glass of water, but the reptilian brain right now is beating the crap out of this new growing part of the brain.
Just beating the crap out of it.
You know, the reptilian side is clearly in control at the moment.
Clearly in control.
Yes, and it would appear that way, but at a certain point, I would also say that friction creates evolution.
You know, when things are easy, did we do anything to change things?
are true you know is when things are easy do we do anything to change things
look what we did in the six years the human race did in the six years of
World War two when there was a common enemy when people finally recognized
that Hitler had to be stopped Yes.
We did miraculous things, especially this country, as an arsenal of democracy.
We did.
And look how people came together, got creative, single-pointed, worked together.
And I'm saying, basically, that by the 2020s, we're faced with a much Bigger challenge than World War II or 10 World Wars.
But you see, that was still, though, John, it was a demonstration of the massive powers of the reptilian brain, driven toward a singularity, a goal.
That's what it was.
But it also was a massive example of the human brain coming back on the ethics of what is right, not as what is might.
And people coming out of, people, common good Americans in their normal lives, in a country that had two huge oceans between the problems, they didn't need to go, but they went.
Because the singularity was the goal of winning the war.
Yes, but the reason being that people perceived an evil of that reptilian brain that was about to take the world down.
And even people in the Soviet Union who had no love for Joseph Stalin, Who is the Hitler that got away?
You know, a lot of people, if Hitler had invaded Russia, they all came together because they saw Hitler as something that had to be stopped.
And they may have had the hope that because of the freedoms that happened in those few years that Stalin relinquished a lot of his controls, let religion come back, let a lot of things come back to fight the great patriotic war.
They, of course, had their hopes dashed and put the screws on again afterwards, but there was a feeling even in such countries like that of, we call it the reptilian brain, the forces of evil, one could call it, the forces of reaction.
People responded and rose up to it, and out of it also came attempts to try to find a way to sort out our problems.
For better or worse, the attempt of the United Nations, I hear a lot of people in your audience going crazy.
Whether it worked or not, the point was that is an attempt of the human brain to rise above the reactive territorial animal brain to make a better world.
And I'll say this to all you growners out there, whether you like it or not, just like Smith didn't like the coming of automobiles, which ended all the horse industries of the previous century, the future is global.
The future, sooner or later, has to be sorted out by a global government.
Better or worse, it could be a bad one.
You got a lot worse and groans out of that one.
I know.
People... Hold on, hold on.
We're at the top of the hour.
Welcome back.
When we do, we'll start taking phone calls and you'll get a lot more than groans, I guarantee.
Everything's gonna have to be dealt with at a world scale.
By what?
A world government?
I think that would be the conclusion.
Did you know you can do this?
I don't know.
It is time for the story to begin!
Hey ya hey ya ho!
Hey ya hey ya hey ya ho!
It's time to get to know each other!
With Art Bell, call the Wildcard line at area code...
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From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM, with
Art Bell.
Remember the Romans, right?
Well, in what would appear to be, to me, a wonderful piece of karmic history repeating
In a moment, we're going to toss our guest to the lions.
I would be all of you.
My guest is John Hoge.
Welcome back, John.
It's good to be back.
Some of the things I'm getting here by computer are pretty rough.
I mean, they hear you and they hear you as... Remember the expletive word replaced with the other word.
They see you projecting liberal self-hatred.
Here's another one.
You want another one?
From San Diego.
We understand Why they smashed our planes into our buildings.
I think his, meaning your bias, is affecting and distorting his views.
Does he really think that fundamentalist terrorists can be reasoned with?
Does anybody think fundamentalist Christians can be reasoned with?
You see, there's the polarity that is absolutely necessary for war to continue.
Well, it's there in spades, brother.
Yeah.
And the other thing is, I often find in 30 years of this, I have definitely discovered that when you come close to the truth, you piss off a whole lot of people.
Oh, that's a fact.
And what I'm very happy about is I'm upsetting as many liberals, the so-called liberals these days, as so-called conservatives from another realm.
I've been making presidential predictions since 1968, and I am 10-0 so far, because the last time I said Al Gore would win, but I also, for some strange reason, know I am going to be wrong.
And I was right.
And he did win, and he also did not win.
And President Bush, of course?
He will win.
President Bush will go for a second term.
So I can hear now, oh, there they are, all those liberals are now yelling and screaming, thank goodness, now at least I've balanced it out.
Well, maybe, maybe not.
We'll see.
It's going to be interesting.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with John Hoag, hello.
Hi, this is Dan in Florida.
Hello Dan in Florida, how are you doing?
Oh, I'm doing okay.
I'm a little troubled with the whole notion about the war being about oil.
You're troubled by it?
Yeah, you know, I've heard enough of it, but to be honest with you, someone would have to explain to me why they feel that way.
Has our occupation in Iraq done anything to help the United States as far as the oil prices go?
Well, yeah, but aren't you kind of looking at the short term here?
Not really.
I don't think so, because we haven't, like, you know, if we wanted to, if we were like a lot of these other dictators and other people around the world, We would not give them back their country.
We would seize control of it, then we would control the oil.
John?
Well, actually, if you look, let's look at the history about that.
We, as we enter more and more deeper into beyond the Hitlerian ideas, things become more subtle.
America has been able to get sympathetic leaders.
For instance, the Prime Minister, or President of Iran, Back in the fifties, who was also the third largest oil field, when he basically wanted to nationalize the oil field from Shell, and in his elected democracy, he was deposed by the Americans who put back the Shah of Iran to run Iran and assure that our oil resources would flow there, among other things.
Because Iran was also, the Shah was also a strong, I mean, we have a policy of even Saddam Hussein was pitting one against the other of enemies.
Yeah, but it's not true anymore, and the Shah's gone.
Is Iran next, John?
Well, first off, before I say that, in the long term, a sympathetic government, think it out, Dan.
A little longer than just what you see in the last few months.
In the long term, you will see what is perhaps the most rich oil fields in the world, even richer than Saudi Arabia, are under Iraq.
The reason why we don't see that in real petrodollars yet is that it's going to take some time to Upgrade what has been a 25 years of degrading an infrastructure of oil.
in the long-term investment if you've got a situation where in the by two
thousand and the extractable cheap oil is going to come harder and harder to
come by likely that you you it is it is it it is an important thing for the
united dates for the united state have a uh... a sympathetic
government hopefully a democratic government but uh... look uh...
portion the murder of our crew is a president of a of each of the egypt that is not a democracy either
So that is somewhat a dictatorship, too.
And we may have to, in our policy in long term, understand that a more heavier-handed government than we would prefer is there.
Would you like your oil to go up $50 a gallon if we did it otherwise?
No, well, John, I understand what you're saying, you know, and I do not dispute at all that we have an interest in what goes on with oil prices around the world.
Of course we do.
But when it comes to this particular, the reason for the war, okay, when we were attacked on 9-11, and what was the statement that our president made?
First off, that we would hunt down these terrorists and anyone who harbors them.
Well, I listened to a rant on the radio the other night, okay?
You have people talking about how our president has lied about the connection between Saddam... Well, there is no proven connection yet.
You can't deny that.
Now, there may be weapons of mass destruction there.
I'm not saying there aren't, but where, but where, Dan, uh, was the connection between
Bin Laden and Fadim Hussein?
It isn't there.
Hold on.
Now, this rant was made by Al Gore, who, the connection was first made in the Clinton administration.
Thank you.
Well, they were wrong.
As Mr. Bush is so ready to say all the reasons why things aren't working are blamed on Clinton, this is one that actually he's right on.
The Clinton administration was wrong.
They were completely wrong.
I do not blame everything on President Clinton.
I thought President Clinton was a great president.
I really did.
I thought he was too, but he also made huge, stupid errors.
We all do.
We're all human.
I don't blame him for that.
But yes, that connection was first made by his own administration, and for Al Gore to be using that as an indictment on President Bush right now is ridiculous in the first place.
What we know at this point...
And this is the same with the 9-1-1 Commission.
I would love Vice President Cheney to come forth and give the 9-1-1 Commission the evidence that he's withholding that will end this silly debate.
And it's, I think, incumbent upon somebody to give the solid evidence, because we've lost almost 900 of our boys and girls there.
On the grounds of going there for weapons of mass destruction and connections to Al-Qaeda, which so far, that doesn't mean that they aren't there, but so far, empirically speaking, beyond the liberal-conservative issue, there is no scientific objective evidence, unquestionable evidence yet, that that's why.
That stuff was there, the grounds for the war.
Now we can change the grounds and talk about Well, we were there, actually, for Plan B, to help democracy come into the Middle East.
I mean, that's fine, but that's not the... I mean, I was around when that war started, and that was not what was being argued.
I know, I was there, too.
Well, so we've gone to Plan B. Yeah.
Plan B. Is Iran...
N.C.' 's coming soon, too.
Well, okay.
Is Iran on the list?
I mean, is this only...
I mean, I think the President in his first Axis of Evil speech is quite a historic speech.
He basically laid down the gauntlet.
And it has a prophetic parallel, too, because Nostradamus talked about three triumvirate of nations that attacked the Western princes and kings.
He spoke in 16th century terms.
These Eastern kings allied, using subterfuge and secrecy, He uses words, to make a long story short, that sound like a 16th century man trying to describe a terrorist triumvirate of nations.
I've been writing about that since 1994, Iran being one of the nations involved, North Korea being the other, and I thought it was very interesting where our president was actually somewhat fulfilling prophecies that were predicted four centuries ago.
So, it could very well be a triumvirate, and I think in his second term, the President will hopefully use political pressure, but probably if he has to, he will use military pressure in those areas.
He's out to end what he believes are a triumvirate of terrorist nations.
And if Nostradamus' prophecies are accurately interpreted in this issue, these kings of the East will tremble and soon be annihilated.
It says in the epistle to Henry II, this letter that Nostradamus wrote to his king in 1558, and then it brings forth the real, bigger issue coming down the road, and that is the breakdown of a friendship between the Great Northern Brothers, who are not yet brothers.
That's the riddle.
He calls them friends by using a strange spelling of demis, spelled demis, and he uses it like
the me, but it's spelled like the Latin demis, which means to separate and to be divided
in half, to divide.
And if you get to know Nostradamus' strange languages over years, you realize that he's
trying to say there's a link between these brothers of the North.
He uses constellations in the northern hemisphere above their skies, and that would be America and Russia.
America and Russia.
And that they are, that down the road, they are undermined by a Bavarian power. Now, Bavarian can mean
uh... Tripolian or Libyan, North African, and that can also mean Middle Eastern in Nostradamus in a greater extent.
Terrorists from North Africa, something like that could be applied as an
interpretation.
This is just the first stage.
It's a 27-year war, and especially when history is moving so fast right now.
A 27-year war in this day and age would be like a 270-year war in any other era.
Absolutely.
A lot is going to happen.
All right.
All right.
A lot of people waiting.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with John Hoag.
Hi.
Hello?
Hello.
Oh, hi.
I'm on.
Okay.
Yes, you are.
I have a lot to say.
What is your first name?
My name is Lisa.
Okay.
And I'm from San Diego.
All right.
And I am a first-time caller, also.
Excellent.
And you know what I was calling?
Well, mine's a little bit more personal.
Is that okay?
Rather than worldwide?
No, it's fine.
Okay.
Because my visions come to me when I'm in my subconscious, between my sleep state and my awake state.
Is that when it usually comes, John?
Well, it is, Lisa.
These kind of things come Yeah, it is similar sometimes when people are in that dozing, hovering state between awakeness and sleep.
There's a passage into other states of consciousness that can come from that.
Sometimes people attain to that by sitting in meditation and putting their brain into a theta vibration that is a very calming It's almost like if the mind is like a stirred up fountain, it's almost like waiting, letting the fountain become as clear and as reflective as glass.
When you get into that relaxed point, whether you're doing it through trance or meditation or you're hovering between wake and sleep, that's usually a doorway where things, sometimes prophecy, sometimes other things, do come up to be seen.
Yeah, I've had an out-of-body experience when I was meditating and it was so wonderful, I didn't want to come out of it.
I didn't have any visions there, but my visions are strange.
Well, when they first happened, my predictions or prophecies would happen the next day.
Then, just recently, my mom used to call me psycho when I was little.
Instead of psychic, everybody would say I was psychic when I was young.
Then, my mom said, you're not psychic, you're psycho.
So, I stopped.
There you go.
Until recently.
Well, my therapist just recently said he's encouraging it.
And so I'm having them a lot now.
They're going crazy.
Are you having any prophecies with regard to anything really big, really soon?
You know, I haven't, and that's what's kind of strange, is because I've been... Oh, and that's the other thing about the computer, is how could a computer have these strange, you know, predictions?
They wouldn't be able to, because they're not patterned.
Well, that's a good point.
And the... Go ahead, John.
Well, the mind, a lot of things that we see in that gap between waking and sleeping, or that gap called self-observation when you're meditating, observing, what you're seeing is the subconscious coming up, and we know so little about the nature of what I consider will be, and I predict this, our final true frontier.
It will not be space.
We are going into space, but probably in space we'll even encounter this even more, that the real frontier is human consciousness.
Because there are some mystics who say that there's no box of limits into this.
Human consciousness, to a certain point, Encompasses the past, the present, the future, and the whole cosmos.
I could not agree more.
I think that's... So if we are... The way it's wired right now, it's wired like a robot.
And the part of us that discovers that robotness in us is not the robot.
I'm just putting it in as simplistic terms as I can.
That in that gap, When you're seeing those things come up, the question to ask is, who is seeing it?
I've also been involved in Robert Monroe's Gateway Program and done out-of-body experiences and had many things happen that happens to happen if you have one foot in the empirical side of prophecy and the other foot in the subjective experience of it.
Yes.
But, one question is never answered by all those amazing things.
And that is?
Who is having that experience?
What is the mirror of consciousness that reflects those experiences?
Yes.
And that is the key to breaking out of the robotic programs that are dooming us to appear like we're heading in a certain glass half-empty future.
It will become half-full when you see that you're witnessing the glass, you aren't the glass.
I still, there's a part of me, John, that wonders if you were to program a computer with events and events countered by those events and virtually all of history as accurately as you could get it into a computer.
And then have it look at the probability, given current world events, for a historical repeat of some karmic lesson to be learned.
I don't see why it couldn't come up with it, if you can base it on the past.
I don't know if I have enough time for the ad, but I think I can finally answer that question, Or at least give you a way to look at that, all of you who are wondering about it, because this is kind of a theme that's come up in the last three hours.
Yes.
And there is actually a symbol.
I'll just cue it for the ad, and then come back, because the symbol of the Christian cross in esoteric Christianity has a greater significance Well, a deeper significance of symbolism than simply being the purported cross that Jesus suffered crucifixion on.
It is a map to describe what is called the horizontal reality of our linear time and our feelings, and the vertical, which is the spirit reality.
They meet When the horizontal plane of the cross is exactly balanced, you know, the cross to sustain itself meets at the exact middle point between the either-or, the right-wrong, good-evil, life-death, the dialectic world of the horizontal plane of thinking.
And most of us in our lives are living in that horizontal plane.
When Lisa is in that point between waking and sleeping, That's the point, or when someone's in meditation, or someone's in a great ecstasy, or feeling a great sense of love and expansiveness, that's when the opposites are balanced, and in that balance you jump, you rise.
Why is it that resurrection, and rising, and deepening, and all these things that are vertical language used When describing a spiritual experience.
Gotcha.
All right.
All right.
Hold it right there, John.
John Hogue is my guest, and I guess that's the state you want to try to attain to do what I've asked you to do for tomorrow night when we go into open lines.
Only the really talented, those who have really made the effort, need apply.
Short-term predictions.
Big stuff that's about to happen.
late.
I'm going to be doing a video on the news. I'm going to be doing a video on the news.
Call the Wildcard line at area code 7.
The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
From west of the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country Sprint Access number, pressing Option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
800-893-0903. From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM
with Art Bell.
It is an awfully interesting way to be able to do talk radio.
I'll sure tell you that.
A world expert on Nostradamus, my guest is John Hogan.
Tomorrow night, we're really going to continue the theme as I put out a call for the truly talented.
And I mean this now.
I don't want guessers.
I want people who think they're able to accurately predict the future.
That's what I want tomorrow night.
And I want to know something that you think is about to happen.
About to happen is the key phrase.
It's got to be close in.
Something that's just about to happen.
If you're a prophetic type of individual, I guess that's one way to put it.
Talented.
And you see something coming soon, then tomorrow night I want to know about it.
So the call goes out for that.
We'll be back with John Hoge in a moment.
This sure did turn into a controversial program.
Hey, John, welcome back.
Yes.
What are you doing book-wise?
Let me just ask.
I want to promote your books.
I told them earlier, nobody gets paid to come on here and do this, so you certainly aren't being paid.
You've got books.
Yes, I have just recently released the first full-bodied biography in English on the life and the myth of Nostradamus, the The two are intertwined, and not only does it look at what we know about him, what we think might have happened about his life, but it also looks at how he made a conscious effort to create a mythology about his ability to predict the future.
And I mean that in all the colors that word means, not just the lower meaning that most people understand is that it's just a flim-flam situation.
But also, from its highest sense, myth is actually about essential history, rather than factual history.
It's about the universal truths that are true in this moment, true 100,000 years from now, and true 100,000 years ago.
And since he was into prophecy and predicting, he would be more in tune with those essential ideas.
So not only does the book look at, it's called Nostradamus, A Life and Myth, and it's published by Thorson's Element.
It is looking not only at his life, but it does a 500 year chronology from his birth to his 500 year anniversary of his birth, which took place on the 23rd of December.
Well, myth, of course, has no trouble promulgating itself, but you're saying that he helped the process along.
He actually wanted to create a myth.
Well, he did it by creating this unique cryptic language that is a wonderful device that, whether one makes a career out of making Nostradamus look like a charlatan or makes a career out of trying to understand That he might not have been a charlatan, but using a charlatan's device at times, that is, being obscure and indirect, is actually, and the book goes through the whole evolution of how he did this to create the situation that 500 years after his birth, you and I are speaking to millions of people across the world about him, and whether we are saying he's full of it or whether
We are blind believers or blind debunkers of Nostradamus.
One thing he created through this language was that we're talking about our future.
Every generation since his books have been published in 1555 have been discussing and debating where we're going from here.
Again with the war for a second, John.
This is pretty critical stuff.
Right after 9-11, and certainly now, the administration, our administration, is trying its doggonest to foster the view that we're certainly not at war with Islam.
We've said it again and again and again and again and again and again.
We're not.
But, you know, the question is whether before this is all over, we are going to essentially be at war with Islam.
Sorry to say it, but it is a war between two cultures.
It is a war between two points of view.
It is not only a war over resources, but it will evolve into a war between two religious ideas.
It's nothing new.
We had a 30 years war between Protestants and Catholics in the 1600s.
We've had these wars before.
In a way, and I find this unfortunate and ironic to say, but since this is a controversial show, I'll say it, in some regards our enemy is more Alert to what's going on than we are a little ahead of us
in in the game He has seen it as a war between cultures. Yeah, we're
religions Yes
Oh absolutely and I'm saying this to simply say if you want to defeat your enemy you must
Understand your enemy and not try to cram your enemy up your own ideas. I
Do you think that Islam the majority of Islam yet regards it that way
Our enemies, which you would define as extremist at this point.
I also want to say that it is not a war between people of these two faiths.
I mean, it's bogus.
It is a lie, and this extremist on one side is finding polarized opposites.
We'll find more polarized opposites on our side who will see it in the same terms.
In fact, he needs it.
Bin Laden needs this polarization to grow.
He needs a climate of both sides feeling more self-righteous and spiritually inclined for this war to go, because people of this kind of uncreative, negative energy need to create a link to the other side.
It's an intimate relationship in the most negative sense, but a very intimate relationship when two sides get so locked into ideology, and I see the potential I was getting as ideological, if not some people already in the administration are that ideological about the situation.
It's something I was talking about in Messiahs in 1999 in a chapter called From Propaganda to Armageddonomics.
Which looks at how a misunderstanding and misinterpretation of a line here and a line there in a religious scripture of any religion often ends up with this rather anti-life future where our enemies get it, the sinners get it, we are the chosen few, and our reality dominates the world.
That is a syndrome that's the dark shadow of all religions in their apocalyptic literature.
Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, Pagans, everybody.
Natives of different cultures all have this, we got the truth and everybody else is going to be purified or destroyed unless they follow our truth.
And that is playing because Bin Laden is playing the game of the 12th Imam.
In apocalyptic Islamic prophecies, he is trying to at least hitch onto that myth of the man who's going to Convert the world according to the purity of his... And if you step outside of U.S.
media and propaganda reach, to some degree, he's certainly doing it, isn't he?
Well, so far, you know, Hitler also had some luck in the beginning, and it seemed like he couldn't be stopped.
But the thing that happens is the very intent, the very negative intent and misunderstanding of the spirit that these people follow in the initial stages It seems unstoppable.
Like Hitler, it seemed unstoppable.
But it consumes itself, because it's a negative.
It's life-negative.
Yes, but you do have to admit, they do surveys and report on them every now and then about popular opinion in Afghanistan, for example, or Pakistan, for example.
Regardless of what the government's in the middle ground they're trying to walk, the popular opinion is very much behind this man, isn't it?
Well, just like one could make the argument from the Islamic side that the popular opinion is very much behind a kind of extreme brand of evangelical end times beliefs from the other end.
And what I said, and just to make my point about what I said in 99 is, at the end of that chapter I said the thing that could happen, the worst thing that could happen for us in the near future is That somebody in the Islamic side, an extreme fundamentalist, would take up the reins of the Twelfth Imam, and some President of the United States would believe that he had to take up the reins to fulfill prophecy from his religion.
And, you know, when I hear George Bush saying, I answer to a higher father, you know, God speaks to me, it makes me a little nervous, because I've heard bin Laden say the same thing.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hoek.
Hi.
Hi.
As they say in Al-Qaeda, I slam, you slam, we all slam for Islam.
I doubt they say that.
Okay, alright.
If you can do that in Arabic, it would be very interesting to me.
If you did, I'd bleep it out.
So go on, sir.
Is this a little variation on the ice cream?
Yes, yes.
Anyway, I don't know if Nostradamus had anything to say about the I think we should all be paying a lot more attention to the role of big business interests in the crap that's going on in the world.
As a perfect example, you were talking about how we all came together to fight World War II and defeat Hitler and Japanese fascism.
One thing we overlooked, though, was the role of big corporations like IBM, for instance, who actually designed and ran the punch card system that kept track of the status and the fate of hundreds of thousands of concentration and slave labor camp inmates.
It might be so.
No, it's a documented fact, actually.
But, and I don't deny the way you say about big business.
I mean, right now in Iraq, big business is... Halliburton and Kellogg-Luke Brown.
The whole thing, yeah.
That's kind of the core of where we've been this whole hour and a half or so.
Religion and commerce have been the main motive forces for many of our wars.
It's either fought over, our God's better than your God, or it's fought over, You've got something.
In Hitler's case, it's the vast steppes of Russia.
I need more room.
Lebensraum.
And in some, the Western world may, after another few more years of higher demands and less oil, say, we have a right, because we're going to use that oil better than you people, and we will take it.
Now, I'm not supporting that.
I'm just simply telling you that beyond your own... We all are trained to have a conceit about that we're, of course, always good.
Even if we don't say so, deep down, every country looks at their side as always right, and the other side, maybe we're wrong, sometimes we're wrong sometimes, but we're basically always more right than the opposite side we're fighting.
And that is the problem.
And the other problem with the economy is that the economy by itself is not a bad thing or a good thing, just like the atomic atom is not a bad thing or a good thing.
One person who is creative and life-affirmative makes it light the world, another person blows up Hiroshima and Nagasaki with it.
Or, you know, one man flies to other wonderful places to discover new worlds and lands, and another man drives a plane into a poor innocent building, you know?
Well, business ultimately is forced to bend to the popular opinion.
It's got to serve what people want, right?
That's what business does, or it doesn't survive.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hogue.
Hello.
Yes, I'd like to take exception to Mr. One World's opinion about Islam being a religion of peace.
All right.
Did you hear that, John?
Yes.
Well, you know, this is one of the mistakes that actually President Bush has said, and his advisors should have done
a little more study of the word, as-salam means to submit, literally, and to surrender.
And Islam, as I understand the word from studying it, does not mean peace.
But then one could also argue that Christianity and its Prince of Peace has been responsible
in the last 2,000 years for killing more people than any other religion in the last 5,000,
6,000 years.
So is that a peaceful religion either?
No, secular humanism killed more people than Christianity.
You forget Stalin.
Oh no, that's simply not true.
You know, half the population of Europe died because one side thought their interpretation
of Jesus Christ was more important than the other, and 30 years' war killed half of Central
Europe's population.
The Crusades, the Cathars, the fact that people who believed in the same God in World Wars I and II worshipped the same Savior butchered each other first in 20 millions and then in 60 millions.
I'm sorry if it hurts people's feelings, but sometimes the truth hurts.
And if we're going to really be religious on this planet, we have to reassess, or maybe live up to the beautiful statements of our great religious leaders, like Jesus and Buddha and others.
Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you.
Love your neighbor.
Love your enemy.
That's not being followed right now, by either side.
Did you state that, didn't you not state that Islam was a religion of peace earlier on the show?
I said it was, I don't remember except it, but if I didn't let me, if I did let me clarify that it is a, it is a, of course this is, The thing that's so terrible about radio, we're going to say in a few words what a whole religion is.
You've got to in this case.
Simply, it is to surrender to God, to surrender to Allah, to surrender to existence, to surrender to love, to surrender to peace.
So when Muhammad was moving his army through the Arabian Peninsula at will, forcing one village after another to accept Islam or die, He was doing it peacefully.
Well, there again, that's another thing.
I'm no more peaceful than the crusaders that were going through the same area, killing people who didn't follow, or the American Indians of North and South America who didn't submit to the conquistadors and the whites coming to their land.
You know, there's a whole lot of contradiction You can throw back and forth, and I go back to my point.
I'm simply saying, let's finish with a real controversial statement.
I pose to you that in the coming centuries, people may look back at our religions and say, in the name of peace and love and God, these religions retarded human spiritual growth for thousands of years.
And they all had to fade away before human beings could truly discover their true religious nature.
Well, then we're doomed.
No.
We will drop our toys and grow up.
Caller, what do you think?
You ready to drop your toy?
No, but I think this guy's kind of fast and loose with the facts.
And like Nostradamus, he uses verbiage to mold The prophecies of Nostradamus... Yeah, they do it with the Bible all the time.
They do it with the scriptures of Muhammad all the time.
Everybody can do that all the time.
Actually, that's what I love about the device of Nostradamus.
When people point that out, I say, yeah, why is it suddenly such a strange, terrible thing when you can stretch a Nostradamian quatrain, but everybody looks at an interpretation from a certain religious group as gospel, From the same, even more vague and random applications of one little bit from here, one little bit from there.
How can you have a religion that talks about submitting to peace and doing what Muhammad did, as you were saying, and how can you have Ten Commandments about not killing anybody and seeing all this bloodshed from the same religions?
It is an indication to me that we haven't become religious yet.
We will, but we're not there yet.
We'll get there.
You criticized the Crusades.
If it wasn't for the Crusades, we'd all be bowing to Mecca five times a day.
Well, that's simplistic and not substantiated, especially because in the 16th century, when Nostradamus was around, the Christian nations were so divided against themselves over the Reformation and the Counter-Reformation, and the Ottoman Empire was so huge, and still, they couldn't take Europe.
They tried, and they couldn't take Europe.
So that's just historically unfounded.
I don't know, John.
I don't think that you're going to see these toys so-called drop away very quickly at all.
Well, that's a good point, because something that helps me with this work, which gets back to something you said in the first hour.
Which I wanted to comment on.
Very quickly.
Yes, very quickly.
I'm not going to be there in that future.
I kind of got that feeling.
It's a feeling that all of us have is, well, I won't be there to see that.
Yes.
But you know, half the world religions believe that we live only one life.
The other half believe we live many lives.
So there's a 50-50 chance that if you don't make the world today better, you may be reincarnated in your own mess.
That's a whole nother program, which we can surely do, John.
Listen, brother, thank you for being here.
It was a fantastically controversial, fun program.
It really was.
What a great discussion.
Thanks.
So nice to hear you get your voice again.
Good night.
Good night.
There's John Hogan.
That really was, really was a good discussion.
Love it or hate it, it was really good.
All right.
We'll be back tomorrow night.
Only the truly talented need apply.
We're going to be looking for near-term, very near-term predictions from the high desert.
I'm Art Bell.
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