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March 7, 2004 - Art Bell

02:52:27

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Michael Horn - The Billy Meier UFO Contacts

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36:26

michael horn

01:47:37

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's very prolific time zones.
		Covering them all, we do.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. I'm Mark Bell.
		This would be the weekend version.
		Somebody sent me a quote earlier in the day that I love.
		Here it is.
		Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body.
		But it's rather an opportunity to skin in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, WOW!
		I like that book.
		How y'all doing?
		We're going to examine, I think, the biggest case in mythology tonight will be the Billy Meyer case.
		In a few moments.
		And we're going to do that with the authorized American media representative for Billy Meyer.
		In case you're not familiar with the Billy Meyer situation or you are, One little note before we begin, and I've got a link on the website for this because I thought it was so completely incredible.
		It's breaking news, really.
		Entitled Antarctica, Lost World Found.
		Antarctica.
		Two teams of researchers, and by the way, so you know this came, it's on the CNN page, two teams of researchers working separately, thousands of miles from each other, but both defeating incredible odds, have really made some incredible finds in frozen Antarctica, so stunning that the National Science Foundation calls their discoveries evidence of a lost world.
		The researchers found what they believed to be the fossilized remains of two species of dinosaurs previously unknown to science.
		One, a 70 million-year-old quick-moving meat eater found on the bottom of an Antarctic sea, while the other is a 200-million-year-old plant eater that was found on top of a mountain in the Antarctic.
		Now, this is pretty strange stuff, I'll tell you.
		Pretty strange stuff in Antarctica, of all places.
		Now, the lost world in which these two dinosaurs lived was very different from the Antarctica we know now.
		Their Antarctica was not frigid and frozen.
		Their Antarctica was warm and wet.
		And if you would like to perhaps take a little ride up to the CoastCoastAM.com website, you can read the entire article.
		But I thought that was worthy of your attention.
		In the meantime, after 25 years of research, Michael Horne is now, officially, the authorized American Media Representative for the Billy Meyer Contacts.
		Michael's background is quite eclectic.
		He is a trendsetting designer, award-winning painter and songwriter, one of the first inventors of online digital book publishing, the creator of the medically endorsed Sit-and-Get-Fit Regenerative Movement Program and videos, and music and video producer.
		His new DVD on the Meyer contacts is available from, and we'll get to that.
		So hang in there.
		At any rate, in a moment, we will discuss in detail the incredible case in Switzerland of Billy Meyer.
		Stay right there.
		Of all the UFO cases in the world, in the history of the world, really, I think perhaps the Billy Meyer case is the most famous, maybe one of the most contested, one of the most controversial, no question about it, in the world.
		Michael Horne, welcome to the program.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Art.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		They pleasure to be here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Michael, with a background like yours, which is kind of in, you know, it's in the media for sure, but I mean, songwriter, book publishing, regenerative sit-and-get-fit movements, that kind of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you get from there to Billy Meyer?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		I think I got from Billy Meyer to some of those places.
		Well, what happened was in 1979, I had been living in L.A. for about nine years.
		At that point, I went into a bookstore called The Bodhi Tree, and I saw the first coffee table-size picture book, if you will.
		It also had texts, but mainly the beautiful pictures of UFOs.
		And ever since I was a kid, I had dreams of lights in the sky and fascination with spaceships and that type of thing, like probably many other people.
		So when I saw the book, it resonated.
		It looked like it was real.
		Of course, I don't base my current position on how I felt simply looking at the pictures.
		But they were the most astounding photographs I'd ever seen of so-called UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the Billing Meyer photographs, for those who have not seen them, are the most detailed, close-up, in many cases, totally clear, not blurry, shots of UFOs, alleged UFOs, I guess I ought to say, in the world.
		As simple as that.
		They're very, very clear photographs.
		So now, let's go back, and if you would, just for everybody, Michael, tell us the story of Billy Meyer.
		Who is Billy Meyer?
		How did all this happen?
		When?
		The usual what, where, when?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Sure, I'll try and give you the, you know, the kind of condensed overview.
		Billy Meyer is a Swiss man who claims that his voluntary and face-to-face contacts with extraterrestrial humans started when he was five years old.
		He and his father had allegedly seen a silver-type object fly overhead.
		This was in about 1942 or so.
		He asked his father what it was.
		His dad says, I don't know, but I think it may be a weapon that Hitler's developing, etc., etc.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were farmers, weren't they?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, they were always living in a very rural area, a small village, and to this day, Meyer lives in a small, very small rural environment in what's called the Schmidtruti, or Interschmittruti, in Switzerland, outside of Zurich, by perhaps 40 miles or more.
		And he then one day, you know, having all of this great rural environment in which to grow up, he spent a lot of time in fields and forests.
		And one day he was outside in the forest, and he felt a kind of, he said it was like a calling, like somebody calling to him.
		He heard it inside of his head.
		And so he followed it.
		And there was a pear-shaped craft with an elderly-looking man in what he said looked like a deep-sea diver suit standing there.
		And as he tells it, he said he felt no fear.
		He felt that this was a kind person.
		He felt safe, and he went and walked up to the man.
		And that began these contacts where he was taken on board this craft with this man.
unidentified		Sometimes whose name was Sfath.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		That may not help matters, but he was called Sfath, I believe.
		It was spelled S-F-A-T-H.
		That's how it's kind of written and pronounced in the...
		Yeah, not a little gray guy, a fully human-looking human being.
		It would pass for an elderly-looking European man.
		So all of the people that Meyer has his major contacts with are human beings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I need to ask, for the sake of the audience and myself, how you know this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, did you interview Billy Meyer?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've spoken with Billy any number of times, but I think you've just brought up a really good point that I want to put out in the beginning here.
		There's two categories of information.
		One of them is speculative, meaning I can tell you the story as I know it.
		And the other part is I can tell you the facts as I've been able to determine them.
		And even so, you should, meaning anybody listening who would want to, take a good look at the material that's available and find out for yourself if it rings true.
		Do the same thing I did.
		Do the research.
		And we can talk more about how I did that.
		But that's a good caveat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would appreciate it if as we go along you would delineate between speculation and what you know to be facts.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		So what I'm going to tell you now is the story as it is written in the Meyer material of Billy's contacts and how they progressed.
		This is not my experience.
		It's available.
		Anybody could read it and tell you the same story up to a certain point here.
		So Billy was allegedly then having these contacts with this human being, and they lasted for a couple of years.
		Meyer didn't tell his own family.
		He didn't feel that he could really confide this, but he did tell a parish priest, Father Zimmerman, who assured him for some reason this man felt like it was perfectly good that this was happening to Billy and he should not be troubled by it and that these were good people.
		Somehow this man, Zimmerman, may have, in his own way, either been a contactee in person or telepathically.
		That's the sense of this part of the story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You wouldn't think a priest would give advice of that sort.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		You would not at all.
		And that's why it is noted in the material that this was very unusual.
		And Billy took comfort in that as a boy because he did have then a kind of neighborly confidant to explain this to and to get encouragement from.
		And apparently what we are told is that this man, Sfaath, not only told Billy and taught him things in an oral tradition, but he put devices on his head that Billy said looked like different things that had wires he didn't understand, but they were apparently working on his brain and his thinking and inputting information into him.
		And again, this is the speculative part.
		So he's told that when he's about seven years old, that he has the thinking capacity of a 35-year-old man.
		Now, this was not something that made him, or these experiences didn't make him more adaptable and more comfortable in his own environment, in schools and what have you.
		As a matter of fact, from what the material is, I recall, and I haven't read this part for some time, but it caused him to be troubled and to be a bit of a misfit, and I think he even ended up in some kind of juvenile schools.
		And he's had an enormously varied and challenging life, and he's kind of done it all.
		French Foreign Legion, you know, I mean, but none of it's been a bed of roses.
		It's all been extremely challenging conflicts brought on by these experiences and the, you know, and of course the derision and assault on his character and his person that has occurred ever since he went public with his story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		There's been a lot of that, and we will discuss that.
		But at this stage, did Billy say what they were inculcating in him, what they were telling him, what kind of information he was getting?
		What does he know about that?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, what I recall, and I'm not sure that I'm going to recall it all accurately, he did say that they were telling him things that had to do with future times, with vast amounts of information pertaining to different subjects, and things that he would be able to access and have some conscious control over and recall later on at more appropriate times in his life.
		That this was kind of, maybe it's the equivalent of downloading stuff into a computer for when you're ready to use it.
		But he said that there would be things that would come to him when he needed to know them, and then also that they would, throughout their contacts with him, that they would help him become aware of and adjust to things.
		And they said to him, even at an early age, that this was something that he had agreed to do on a certain level prior to his coming into this life.
		And he knows that these points, initially, these things didn't make much sense to him.
		But he was not threatened by these people.
		He felt very comfortable with them to the degree that they felt familiar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, who are these people?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, what we're told are that they are people who we now are told are called Pleiaran, spelled P-L-E-J-A-R-E-N.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not Pleiadian.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		For the longest time, that's how we had come to know of these so-called extraterrestrials.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When did you get that clarification?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		I believe Billy was in 1995 at the point that they were about to officially depart and close up their bases that they had on the planet.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		They told him that he could now reveal this discrepancy and why it was put in place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's hear the real name again, please.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Pleiarin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pleiarin.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so the J is a Y or an I kind of a sound.
		Pleiarin.
		The Pleiades would be also spelled with a J. And what they said was, yes, we come from a system in the direction of the Pleiades in an altered time-space configuration because the stars that you see in the skies, the Pleiades, cannot support life.
		These are young blue suns, etc.
		And anybody that claims on any level that they're in touch with so-called Pleiadians is hoaxing.
		So what they claim that they did here was this.
		They claimed that they put this in motion, using this term Pleiadians, so that for those who would come after Billy, supposedly, and claim to be having contacts with Pleiadians and channeling Pleiadians and all of the rest of this stuff, that they would be self-identifying as hoaxers because there are no Pleiadians.
		So this is, you know, another one of those little bumps in the road for those that want to take issue with it or think it's all a bit of a confusing hodgepodge.
		But certainly, we weren't hearing too much about Pleiadians before 1975 when Billy first started to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's where it came from.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		And indeed it is.
		So these are the things, again, that are speculative and debatable, and I don't rest anything on them.
		There's a lot in the case that I couldn't prove at this point, you know, to save my life.
		I don't know.
		There's things in here that I've disagreed with.
		There's things in here that I'm confounded by.
		I don't know.
		It's neither been proved nor disproved at this point, and so I say it's speculation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why have you been named the official authorized American media representative for Billy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's up with that?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, probably one of the reasons is I stepped up to the plate because I want to do this work.
		I had originally in 1979 I got the book and I was like everybody else that had that book fascinated by the photos.
		In 1986 I was sitting in a little cafe in Sedona, Arizona with my daughter and a friend.
		I think it's called the Sunflower Cafe or it was.
		We were waiting for our alfalfa sandwiches with sprouts like everybody was in the new age.
		And there was one other guy in the place and he's sitting back there.
		So we started the chat with him and he was a retired IRS agent.
		And of course the talk went in the direction of UFOs and all.
		And he, Billy Meyer case, came up and he said, well, have you read the contact reports?
		And I said, what's that?
		And he said, well, that's all those conversations.
		You know, in the picture book?
		I said, yeah.
		He said, you know, those quotes in the side panels from these extraterrestrials?
		I said, yeah.
		He says, well, there's 2,000 pages of that.
		So I said, well, where do I get it?
		He said, well, when you come back to L.A., come on up, Decker Canyon, I think it's called, and I'll give it to you.
		I came back.
		I called him.
		He was true to his word.
		He gave me all this material.
		And for weeks on end, I was up reading it, fascinated.
		And it took a long time also because it was kind of strange, backwards English from Swiss German somewhere.
		And what was exciting about it was that there were all of these pieces of information being conversationally conveyed.
		And what we were missing in these contact reports was this, what I call hokey thing of, we're the Space Brothers, and we bring you love and light.
		They never spoke that way.
		And interestingly enough, in reading of the several thousand pages I've read of the 9th.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me stop you and ask you, if they didn't speak that way, how did they speak?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		They spoke logically and precisely.
		It wasn't without warmth.
		They greeted each other with friendliness.
		For the longest time, there wasn't much of a sense of humor present in it.
		Billy exhibited his own humor, and they didn't quite get it for the longest time, quite literally.
		But they spoke directly.
		And what I was going to say is, the only time I ever saw in print any of these ETs use the two words, I believe, there was one occasion I can remember when the man that is, supposedly a leader of their race who's called Ptah, same name as the ancient Egyptian god, he said to Billy, I believe the person you're thinking of is named such and such.
		Other than that, they only spoke of what they knew and what they didn't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's get to the why of it.
		Why Billy Meyer, for example, instead of the head of Switzerland or the head of the United States president or Russia or whatever?
		We're not a world leader.
		Why a Swiss guy living a rural lifestyle?
		Why him?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's actually a host of reasons, but let me say that in addition to Billy, there were five other people who were selected as potentially being able to do this quote-unquote mission.
		They either declined or died or were killed in car accidents or what have you.
		There were a total of six people.
		Meyer was one and probably the main candidate.
		And the reason, and I'm just going to tell it, again, this is going to be speculative, so for anybody who wants to scratch their head around this point, these people have conveyed in the material that reincarnation is a fact of life.
		I like to say there's a bumper sticker that would say, reincarnation, don't worry about dying, you'll live through it.
		So they kind of hold this philosophy, we live millions of times, we have no recall, for the most part, of any of these experiences.
		And what we do is come back time and time and time again to evolve, to learn new lessons.
		And they claim to have the ability to track that essential part that reincarnates that they call the human spirit.
		Not the soul, but the human spirit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They call it the human spirit.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		The human spirit.
		In other words, or spirit form.
		They use that term.
		You know, the spirit form or the human spirit.
		That's the individually unique essence of every human living every and anywhere on earth or anywhere in this universe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Same thing a priest would say.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		It could be, except they might call it the soul.
		But they claim that the soul is a different thing.
		It's located in the solar plexus.
		They say this is akin to the psyche, and there may be very distinct differences in their cosmology between the soul and the spirit.
		The soul does not survive the dying process, but the spirit does.
		This is, again, according to them.
		So this isn't to pass on and create a new belief system here.
		This is information.
		It's speculative.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you know what?
		It would tend to create a new belief system.
		I mean, if people, in fact, I've actually heard that at the Meyer Farm or Compound or whatever it is called these days, there's almost a cult-like atmosphere surrounding Billy.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		In my three visits there so far yearly, I have not only not observed it as a cult-like following around him, I've had the pleasure and privilege of watching them fight with each other and yell and be very human and go about their business, quite literally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't mean physically fight, but when you say fight with each other, do you mean the Meyer family or the Meyer following?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		I mean, Meyer argues with people, they argue with him.
		The people there are, how can I put it?
		You know, these are European people, Swiss, rural for the most part, very down-to-earth people.
		They don't have much pretense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but still, there is a rather large group that follows Meyer, isn't there?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Not really.
unidentified		It is not.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		up to you more in terms of the actual numbers of the core group around him That's what I'm getting at.
		Meaning that there's 49 people that are affiliated as people who study the teachings and the case and are associated with each other.
		They don't all live together, anything like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Michael, hold tight so it's not some big commune.
		You know, there's a lot of rumors that were out there about Meyer and the whole thing.
		From the high desert in the middle of the night with a full moon hanging right over all of us, this is Coast to Coast AM.
		Don't touch that dial.
unidentified		Out the street, I'm talking to a man.
		It's been so my brothers love a man that I understand.
		You shouldn't worry, I said...
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		Abumba Abumba You need a glass of iron, I need a bottle Abumba Can you hear my heartbeat in the phone?
		Abumba foreign To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Michael Horne, who is now the officially authorized American Media Representative for Billy Meyer.
		Billy Meyer is the Swiss man who's probably been the recipient of, it was once called, the Palladian Information.
		And more clear photographs, we'll ask about that.
		There really are clear photographs of UFOs, the clearest photographs actually ever taken.
		There are people who believe the whole case was a hoax, but I think many more who don't.
		in a moment.
		We'll get right back to it with Billy Meyer.
		Once again, Michael Horn for Billy Meyer, actually.
		Michael, what is the best proof offered that Billy Meyer and the UFOs, well, Billy Meyer is real, but the UFOs really exist?
		I mean, was there any, of course there are the photographs.
		How many in totality?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		It is said that Billy took upwards of 1,200 photos in about a three-year period.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Enormous number.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, Art, when you think about this, this is either going to turn out to be, people have to determine for themselves, the greatest hoax in all of human history, or, hands down, simply the most important story.
unidentified		There's really no middle ground.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		If this is real, if it's true, it's the most important story, and then we're going to find out why it's happening and what people are, and what are we supposed to do with this information.
		But I'm going to address what you've just raised, and that would be the proof.
		So let's start with the idea that there's about, I think, five categories of physical evidence.
		And the five categories would be photographs, films, a video that we know of one video, sound recordings that were made on a cassette machine, and also a number of metal alloy samples, little squiggles of metal that Meyer claims were given to him by the ETs.
		They were turned over to the investigative team along with the other evidence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With what results?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is the fascinating thing on the evidence.
		And what I should do is just back it up a little bit and say that Meyer's evidence and the process around it is unique because it was actually examined by a good number of scientific experts in a variety of fields.
		I will give you just a reference point.
		In terms of photographs, there were people like Robert Post from JPL Laboratory, 22 years at the lab.
		Michael Mallon from Mars Orbiter and NASA Mars Global Surveyor, the Mallon Space Science System.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know of him well.
unidentified		Okay.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
		They were two of the people, Jim De La Toso.
		There's a 23-page report on the actual physical examination.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what did Michael Malin conclude?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I have a quote from him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		And he said, I find the photographs themselves credible.
		They're good photographs.
		They appear to represent a real phenomenon.
		The story that some farmer in Switzerland is on a first-name basis with dozens of aliens who come to visit him, I find that incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, so do I. Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But from Malin, that's quite a statement.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, he goes on.
		He says, but I find the photographs more credible.
		They're reasonable evidence of something.
		What that something is, I don't know.
		If the photographs are hoaxes, then I am intrigued by the quality of the hoax.
		How did he do it?
		I'm always interested in seeing a mastered work.
		Now, let's just jump, since we're talking about people that looked at the photos, there was a man whose name was Wally Gentleman, and Wally was apparently a major player in the special effects world and films.
		He was the director of special effects on the Canadian Film Board.
		He was the director of special photographic effects for Kubrick's 2001.
		He had seen Myers' 8mm film segments, and he said that the manpower and the costs to make these films were clearly beyond Meyer's reach.
		Here was his quote.
		He said, my greatest problem is that for anybody faking this, and he was referring to the photographs, the shadow that is thrown onto that tree is correct.
		Therefore, if somebody is faking it, they have an expert there.
		And being an expert myself, I know that that expert knowledge is very hard to come by.
		So I say, well, is that expert knowledge there or isn't it there?
		Because if the expert knowledge isn't there, this has got to be real.
		Now, that's just.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's still a hell of a statement from Malin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's surprising.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, this is Wally Gentleman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm still on Malin statement.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, now look, Robert Post, he said from a photography standpoint, you couldn't see anything that was fake about the Meyer photos.
		That's what struck me.
		They looked like legitimate photographs.
		I thought, God, if this is real, this is going to be really something.
		Now, he was with the JPL Photo Lab for 22 years.
		He was the head of that lab in 1979.
		he oversaw the developing and printing of every photograph that came out of JPL at the time.
		Now, we'll get into this with skeptics and all, but when you have these...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A skeptic.
		Somebody from FNet, I think that's Crosshatch Art Bell up there on the net, Fargo, North Dakota, says his ex-wife has come out to denounce him as a fraud.
		The evidence is overwhelming that the whole Billy Myers story is unquestionably, absolutely, completely, and totally 100% bogus case close.
unidentified		Right.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's visit the story of the ex-wife.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		And let's go back to the original investigation when Wendell Stevens, Lee Elders, and Britt Elders, and Tom Welch, and other people went over to Switzerland, and they actually spent a total of six years investigating the case.
		They interviewed, I believe it was 15 or 16 people, including Meyer and his wife, and they put these 15 or 16 people separately through lie detector tests.
		During this process, all of the people came out as truthful.
		The questions involved, did Mr. Meyer see spaceships?
		Had anybody else there seen the spaceships?
		Mrs. Meyer passed the lie detector test saying she'd seen them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well then, what happened?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know what?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Here's the beauty of the Meyer case.
		It conforms to one of my dearly held axioms or principles about life.
		Wherever human beings are involved, things can and will get screwed up.
		So Meyer is a human being and his wife's a human being.
		After 30 years of marriage or whatever it was, they are fighting with each other and they got divorced.
		And a lot of this is in the contact reports.
		I mean, you would hear about all this stuff.
		You could read about it.
		She's had no sense of privacy left.
		The world is traipsing through her living room, literally.
		Her family is, you know, she's trying to raise a family.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sure all of that is true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But did she?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		She came out afterwards, after they separated, divorced, and said, oh, it's all a fake.
		He faked it.
		Unfortunately for her, there's a recording and a video of her talking about the ships and the reality of the whole case prior to that.
		So what we have to say here is, I don't rest the proof of the case on simply what Billy Myers says or Mrs. the ex-Mrs.
		Myers says.
		There are higher standards.
		But I want to present that so the people can look at this.
		I give you a couple photographic experts.
		Let's just for a second go to this.
		And then maybe the guy who knows that this case is a big hoax, maybe he'll have an answer for this.
		And maybe also what he'll do is attempt to do what the professional skeptics have attempted and failed to do after three years, and that's to duplicate any of the evidence.
		So let me quote a little bit here.
		I told you that metal samples had been turned over to Marcel Vogel at IBM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		A little background.
		At the time, he had been a research chemist for IBM.
		He'd been there 22 years.
		He held 32 patents himself.
		He'd invented the magnetic disk coding memory system that apparently up until recently, if not still currently, is used in the IBM disk memories.
		He was a specialist in the conversion of energy inside crystals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Having said all that, he's obviously an expert.
		What did he find?
unidentified		All right.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, he turns on his quarter million dollar scanning electron microscope.
		He turns on the video camera and he starts to apply a probe, a stainless steel probe, to this metal sample.
		Now, I'll quote him.
		When I touched the oxide with a stainless steel probe, red streaks appeared and the oxide coating disappeared.
		I just touched the metal like that and it started to deoxidize.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, where are you getting this quote from?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		This was written by, not written by, but in Gary Kinder's book, Light Years.
		He published a letter called an open letter to the UFO community where he had quoted a number of these experts that he personally interviewed, and he sent all the interviews to them for approval before they were published.
		So nobody's come back and said, I didn't say that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so that's pretty remarkable.
		Yeah, continue, please.
		The oxide disappeared.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he says it started to deoxidize and become a pure metal.
		I have never seen a phenomenon like that before.
		Then he's talking about another metal sample that contained nearly every element in the periodic table.
		And he says each pure element was bonded to each of the others, yet somehow retained its own identity.
		At 500 power magnification, thulium was revealed.
		And he says, thulium exists only in minute amounts.
		It's exceedingly expensive, far beyond platinum, and rare to come by.
		Someone would have to have an extensive metallurgical knowledge even to be aware of a composition of this type.
		At 1600 power, Vogel says, a whole new world appears in the specimen.
		There's structures within structures, very unusual.
		At 2,500 power, he found that the metal sample was metal, but at the same time, it's crystal.
		And so he summarizes his findings.
		This, of course, is maybe an hour-long analysis.
		He says, with any technology that I know of, we could not achieve this on this planet.
		and i think that it is important that those of us who are in the scientific world sit down and do some serious study on these things instead of putting it off as people's imagination It's dynamite plus.
		He said he brought in a metallurgist friend of his and showed him the samples, and the guy said, hey, I don't know how this could be put together.
		Now, there's another very high-level scientist whose name is David Froning, and he had been with McDonnell Douglas for 25 years as an astronautical engineer in highly classified military defense.
		In 1979, he became interested in Meyer's accounts of the Pleiaron starship systems, which mentioned tachyon propulsion.
		And Froning found that Meyer's account of tachyon propulsion, which was at the time only beginning to be discussed by a very small and select group of theoretical physicists, that the calculations for above-light speed that Meyer published were amazing.
		There's a whole thing here in the piece by our friend Gary Kinder.
		And what David Froning is saying is that, let me see if I can just find a thing here where he says that my colleagues and I may have made breakthroughs in our understanding of possibilities and ways for traveling faster than light from Billy Meyer's accounts of his encounters with the Pleiarans.
		Now that's from a guy who publishes high-level papers on quantum ramjet performance and quantum interstellar ramjet stuff that I have no conception of whatsoever.
		And the calculations that Meyer had, here he says, Meyer said that the elapsed time during a hyperspace jump took only several seconds, thus trip time between the Pleiades star cluster and Earth with Froning's slower-than-light quantum ramjet drive plus a hypothetical tachyon drive would be 8.6 hours, which was within 20% of the Pleiaran trip time reported by Meyer.
		But while Froning's calculations were based on many arbitrary assumptions, and they didn't prove or disprove the truthfulness of Meyer's account, because it was a theoretical system that he was working on, only time's going to tell which of them were right.
		But he was startled by the computations being within 20%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is remarkable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, a number of skeptics have tried to duplicate the Meyer evidence, right?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what do you know about that?
		I know about that.
		What efforts have been made and how much success?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Ah, yes.
		Well, this is like been my pet project for a little while here.
		Three years ago, I took a reel of the Meyer films that were on video and that lovely picture book that many of us have, and I went over to visit some fine fellows at a place called CFI West, Center for Inquiry West.
		And Center for Inquiry is an international professional skeptics organization.
		I met with a case investigator named Mr. Vaughn Rees, a very nice gentleman, and he and I went over the films and photographs, and he told me that they were all easily duplicated hoaxes.
		He took the time to explain, yeah, of course, that the film, one film segment where in broad daylight Meyer zooms in on a ship where you can see the flanging, and if there were any bolts on it, you could see them, and two lights alternate in broad daylight, one off the cupola and one off of the flange rim.
		And Mr. Reese told me this was easy to do with a pin on a negative.
		So I said, look, why don't you do me a favor and spare me a lot of embarrassment?
		Prove your case by duplicating one of these films here.
unidentified		And so, well, three years passed by.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		And during the first few months of that time, I was in touch with Mr. Rees, and I was waiting for developments.
		And I made a little boo-boo.
		I have to admit it.
		I've been called on the carpet for this by one of the people who's an expert in this.
		And what I did is I extended to Mr. Rees the opportunity, since he was having trouble duplicating any of this stuff, to go ahead and use computers, special effects, models, anything he wanted, but just to try and do it all with one hand since Meyer is a man with only one arm.
		Well, I then published an article where I simply said, Professional Skeptics Group proves UFOs are real because they had failed after three years to submit any evidence.
		This was picked up and written about in the national tabloid called The Sun.
		And The Sun, I'm not a man who would usually quote a tabloid, but they did probably the cleanest report on this without sensationalizing.
		They didn't have President Bush meeting with little gray guys up on Meyer's farm.
		And they concurred that based on the evidence and the photos and the obviousness, that these skeptics had failed to make the case.
		So suddenly, they did send me a notice that they had now posted six photographs next to some of Meyer's photographs to compare.
		And they actually did nice photographs of models of UFOs floating.
		There were some problems with it, and we've engaged in a lengthy debate, and I'll explain to you exactly what the problems were.
		They thought that duplicating the photos for some reason meant hang a model by a string or float it with helium, whatever, and take a photograph of it where you can't really make out any details on it And where there's no physical objects next to it whereby you can compare the size.
		Now, this is extremely important.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that would not be consistent with the Meyer photographs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the Meyer photographs, you've got a lot of trees and mountains and reference points for the photographs with Meyer.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Plus, you've got multiple UFOs.
		You have sequence shots where the ships move across the sky, maybe three or four ships, and then they're in, you know, each of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, look, folks, there's no question about this.
		The photographic evidence in the Meyer case is the most impressive, detailed, sharp, clear.
		All of that, and then with Malin's statement.
		So anyway.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		I'll give you the rest on this.
		Because people have to know, I mean, the skeptics, this is the problem with the professional skeptics, one of them.
		They're not scientists.
		They set out with a premise that something is false, and they try to prove the premise.
		Now, they don't try to objectively find out what are we looking at.
		They tell you right away it's a hoax and we can prove it.
		It's a hoax.
		Not, we can discover what it is.
		So, when they did these photographs, and I and Jim Deardorff and other people have called them to task on it, and they're trying to say that they duplicated.
		So I said, well, fulfill the rest of the duplication process and submit them for photographic analysis.
		Well, they refused to respond to that.
unidentified		Why?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Because all you're going to see, probably you're going to have a model of whatever determinant size is certainly not going to be a 21-foot in diameter, fully metallic, self-supporting craft.
		And they know that.
		And so then they say that I refuse to submit any real evidence for examination.
		Well, here's the problem with that.
		On the website, we have the sounds of the ships that Meyer and his wife recorded in an open field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've heard it.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's there, and it was so booming and so loud that 15 witnesses came from around the countryside, including a plainclothes policeman.
		And the recording actually lasts, the full recording lasts over 40 minutes.
		The snippet we have on the website is probably about three minutes long.
		Now, here's the beauty of this.
		And we even, now on my articles page, we've posted an overview of the sound analysis on this.
		They could not, this was taken to two different sound labs.
		And there are, you know, I can give you the skinny on the people who were analyzing this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What does the sound lab say?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
		I'll bring that right here, and I'll kind of give you guys a little overview.
		And then anybody who wants, they can, you know, read the full thing.
		But here's what basically what they said was, and let's see if I can zoom down.
		Basically, they found that there were 32 or more discrete frequencies in a random and constantly shifting mix that ranged from 4 to 2170 Hertz, but varied on average between 470 and 1,452 Hertz, almost a, you know, a.
		Okay, won't worry about that.
		The amplitude of the frequencies was also constantly changing, whereby the dominance altered.
		And then I go on to talk about the wave shape and all this stuff.
		Basically what they're saying was with any technology, including synthesizers, they could not duplicate the sounds.
		And part of what was remarkable in these constantly shifting and interfacing sounds was 24 of them were in the audible range.
		Eight of them could only be detected with spectrum analyzers and oscilloscopes.
		These were recorded outdoors with birds chirping and crickets in an open field.
		Yet you had 24 audible sounds.
		Eight of the sounds were at the frequency range, but you could only see the patterns of them or pick them up on that kind of technology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		Hold it right there, Michael.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		So we've got extremely high-quality photographs that can't be duplicated.
		We've got little pieces of metal that have been tested and shown to be alien of some kind.
		And we've got sound that's been dissected by some of the best and found to be very complex in the manner you just heard.
		My guest is Michael Horn.
unidentified		Girl, I think it's time to get ready To realize just what I have found I have been only here Oh, what I am It's so clear to me now My heart is on fire Can some people
		Can some people Be it silent sand, smell or touch.
		There's something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of the touch or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak leaves deep in the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarnac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
		To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing And all these things in our memories all And they use them to help us to find Yeah!
		Yeah!
		Why?
		Why does she soar?
		Take this place On this trip You're for me Why?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take a big walk Through my wings Up by the sea It's for me Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather an opportunity to skip in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, wow, what a ride.
unidentified		Want to take a ride?
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach ART by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free, 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Billy Meyer case, the biggest, probably in the world biggest UFO contact case in the world with a very great deal of evidence.
		A tremendous amount of photographic evidence.
		Metallic evidence that's been examined.
		Audio evidence that's been examined.
		And by the way, a message for the world.
		And we'll get to all of that in a bit.
unidentified		More on the Billy Meyer case directly ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm just a talk show host, but it doesn't seem to me that a little Swiss fellow living in a rural community could put together a hoax of the quality that would draw quotes from people like Malin on the photographs, scientists on the metallic pieces that were given, and the audio recordings and all the rest of it.
		I just, you know, sitting here, it just doesn't seem very probable unless somebody with a great deal of knowledge chose Billy Meyer in league with him in this hooks.
		It just doesn't seem like Billy Meyer would be capable of pulling this off.
		What do you think, Michael?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'd agree with you, especially the joke here, if you will, is he's done it all with the proverbial one arm, not tied behind his back, but one arm missing.
		You know, I'd like to just...
		Well, okay.
		He was told 10 years before he was going to lose it by the play arm, that he would lose his arm.
		There was nothing they could do about it.
		And it was just one of those things that was going to happen.
		He should prepare himself for it.
		So in the myriad of occupations he's had in various places throughout Europe and the Middle East, he was a bus driver in Turkey on a narrow street, and he had his arm hanging out the window.
		And it did it.
		And it's not a pleasant story, but suffice it to say, that's how he lost the arm.
		But you know, while I tell all this, and I'm talking about the skeptics and their failure to even come close to duplicating, they've made a very large mistake because by being so obstinate and unprofessional and quite frankly, unethical, they just create more attention for the case.
		And ultimately, both CFI West and the amazing Randy are going to have to pay, if they're honorable people, they're going to have to pay the money they claim to have put up for the challenge.
		But Randy recently sent an email.
		He's now withdrawing from the argument.
		He's letting other people do it.
		So there's really a reason for all this.
		And before we get onto it, I wanted to take one more moment, if I could, on the sound evidence.
		Because there is something here so that anybody that's sitting out there, and I've gotten a few emails here, I'm watching, and some are, oh, you know, this is nonsense.
		And I'm thinking, well, that's a great argument, but how do you address it?
		Now, here's the thing.
		In the sound analysis that Wendell Stevens had done, here's the following.
		Jim De Latoso, the research consultant, takes samples of the noise on these tapes to two men named Peter Gimmer and Rick Copeland of MyCorps in San Francisco.
		They perform tests in the audible range from 20 Hz to 2,000 Hz.
		They found 24 characteristic frequencies within the audible range and 8 outside of it.
		All 32 frequencies concurrently at different amplitudes and volumes, all 32 tones are somehow produced simultaneously.
		In a time matrix, the amplitude of some frequencies increases while that of others decrease.
		It was observed that the amplitude periodically increased by about 50 decibels and then decreased by about 40.
		At other times, it was just the opposite, which produced the characteristic beat that was audible.
		Other normal sounds were audible on the recording, but there were no sounds of a tone-on-tone tape dubbing.
		All frequencies were clear and stable, and they were regularly lined up along the frequency scale.
		So then they take a portion of the recordings and they give them to another guy, Robin Shelman, an undersea sound technician.
		He studied them with a spectrum analyzer that was built by Spectrodynamics in San Diego.
		Now we're dealing with a one-armed farmer here and a cassette tape recorder.
		Okay, what he found that the sounds must have been produced by a rotating device.
		And the high-speed device produced a sound that began at 520 Hz and increased in steps up to 990 hertz, only to decrease.
		They go on with this whole thing about the sounds, how they reappear, they disappear, they're very small.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well that's very interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they conclude that it must have been produced by a rotating device.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		And then the thing is, they say that there's so much into this.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		People can read this on the website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, by the way, some are having a hard time finding the audio that you're talking about.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would assume some of the photographs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have some of them?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, we've got all that stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		They're at www.theyfly.com, correct?
		All right, we've got a link to the website on that, but just in case, and for some reason you can't get to it, that's it.
		www.theyfly.com.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Now, it's possible I'm trying to bring up the website.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		You know, whenever anybody goes up and down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		may have another notch.
		We have a great...
		Oh, boy.
		It does happen a lot.
		Your website will eventually get back on its own.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		It'll come back up.
		And just to tell people, everything that I'm kind of motor-mouthing through here tonight, I have put on a two-hour DVD where they can actually read the stuff and hear the stuff and go through it, and they don't have to.
		They can do all this research themselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, people will accuse you of profiting on this.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm sure they will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what do you say?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, people accuse Billy Meyer of profiting by this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, has he not?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Not really.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		You know, Swiss law is extremely, extremely specific.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How so?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, that's the country of banking and rigid laws in every department.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, yes.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		They operate under a very strict non-profit status.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		I've actually, three years running, they opened the books.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're telling me Billy Meyer operates on a non-profit status?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		But he does have a Swiss bank account because he's Swiss.
unidentified		I like people that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That makes sense, I guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Swiss bankers are very tight-lit.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Right, but the government is very front.
		It's only been explained to me a little bit that you can't mess around too easily with the laws over there, that they are very, what would you say, particular, and they have not had any trouble about their status.
		When they sell their stuff, their booklets and all, you know, a couple dollars for this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, where does the money go?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Into their nonprofit organization for printing.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		They print the photographs, they sell their booklets, they have some videotapes, they do charity work in different countries.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fair enough.
		How does Billy Meyer stay alive?
		How does he make his living?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		You know, I don't know totally.
		He has some pension because he's partially disabled, having lost an arm, and he's worked over there.
		They have a cooperative living situation to a degree, but I don't want to avoid the question that you raised about me.
		I mean, I'll come back to that.
		I made a DVD, which I call a lectumentary.
		And basically, I used PowerPoint and narrated it.
		I included film and video and sounds and documents.
		I scanned in the text from some of the copyrighted books and documents.
		We're going to get to what I call the higher standard of proof.
		People can argue all they want about photographs and films, even though there's nobody on the planet that has yet to duplicate this stuff.
		And it's like we can have the discussion endlessly about photos and films.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Should I presume, Michael, that you have a deal with Billy and that some portion of your profits are then realized by the non-profit organization around Billy Meyer?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		No.
		I actually offered them, you know, I don't mind saying this because it exactly went down.
		I asked them if they wanted an override from the sales of the DVD that I did, and they said no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		No.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		And so that's, you know, I consider that clean, and I would not have minded at all because if I'm selling a DVD here, which I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is interesting.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's true also.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I'm just telling you, I have to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would they say no?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Maybe they anticipated the obvious thing.
		In our country, we are very concerned with how people make their living, and is this a motive.
		This isn't, you know, although I would tell you freely, I would love to be spending all my professional time speaking in colleges and confronting science experts and all the rest, because I already have with a number of people, including people with top level security clearances, they cannot refute the hard evidence.
		I'm not talking yet about the photos and films.
		That's what I would call like this class one evidence.
		It's still irreproducible.
		It's enough to make the case.
		But because people are going to say, well, where's the negatives?
		and I'm a genius and I have to see it.
		You know, it's like you'll never really win that argument, except with the skeptics who will...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, 30 years ago, the photographs were all taken on a 35-millimeter single-lens reflex camera.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		They were examined by the investigative team.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're referring to the negatives?
unidentified		Yeah.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Now, not in all cases did they have the negatives, but in enough cases where they could examine them.
		And they also did such extensive searches for special effects, any financial trail, conspirators.
		Nobody's ever come forward.
		They could find no money trail.
		Plus, the investigators were often there when Billy would go off, have a contact, come back with a roll of film, and they would turn the film over to a developing lab whole.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		What about other people having seen these craft?
		Obviously, if there are crafts.
		So you're saying there's well over 100 people.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well over 100 people, and not just in that area, even in other countries, who then would write to Meyer because they either saw and ordered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm talking about the same craft at the same location that Billy saw them.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		There's about 100 people there.
		I've spoken to 12.
		There's four other photographers.
		I've talked to either all of them or three of them.
		There's one guy, I was over there when I was over last year.
		He told me the year before he and 15 other people were outside, and I talked to some of the other people, and they all said the same thing.
		In broad daylight, two of the ships came and hovered over the center, high up in the sky, and danced around.
		They took photographs for 30 minutes.
		To them, what we have to understand is to them, the UFO part is old news.
		For us, we're still fascinated with the ships they came in, like the Nina, the Pinta, the Santa Maria, and the Columbus story.
		This isn't about the ships they came in.
		This is about us and our survival, but we're going to move to that.
		But it's fair.
		It's fair questions, and it's still to get back to the question about me.
		Yes, I sell this DVD.
		I want people to have it, because quite frankly, when we open up what this is about, I think some people may understand that my feelings that this is truly about our future survival are genuine feelings in my part.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This concerns the message, of course.
		Yeah.
		And we're about to get to that.
		But we've got plenty of time intentionally.
		And I'm not trying to be mean to you in any way.
		I'm just trying to hit you with that.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		You lay into it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hard questions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you've got actually written here that there's, past the evidence that we've talked about, there's even a higher standard of proof that meets your words, legal and scientific standards.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Explain.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		Remember I mentioned to you the contact reports.
		And these were the transcripts of documents that Meyer started to publish in 1975, originally in German, and he disseminated them, and they were available not only in Switzerland, but in Germany and other places throughout Europe.
		By about 1980, I believe, they had the rough English translation that I came into my possession in 1986.
		Now, the man who gave them to me had had them in his possession for at least a couple years.
		So the likelihood that it's true that by about 1980 or 81 the English translations were available, it holds water.
		Now, let's look at exactly what you've asked me.
		In these documents, I also said to you that there was very interesting information.
		And what that information constituted was specific scientific and world event-related information of the nature of wars, assassinations, earthquakes, terrorist activities, scientific discoveries, a broadband spectrum of unique and specific information covering a wide variety of areas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think this information, in other words, sort of a whole slew of predictions in time to come were delivered to Billy, what was this for?
		Was the purpose of this to validate the information period?
		Was that the idea?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, though they didn't exactly spell out why we're doing this, here's what I figured.
		And I'll come back to this so we can actually explore what that information was and satisfy some people's curiosity, hopefully.
		What was occurring was this.
		In my estimation, they created what is really a 30 to 48-year record of impeccably accurate information for the purpose of these times, specifically in my mind, that we would,
		once we came into contact and awareness of this material through various means, hearing Myers, hearing him speak, or reading his books, or videotapes, or what have you, that people would then say, wait a minute, this information is impeccable.
		It's accurate.
		And I'll get to the idea of the random error theory in a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess, again, I'm asking...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think the information was delivered so that over time, the record in history would reflect the accuracy of the predictions and underscore all the rest of the story?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Yes, exactly.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		And in underscoring the rest of the story, it would give us good reason.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, these predictions were made in what year or through what year?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'm going to give you that.
		Let me just finish this one thought.
		They would give us good reason not to swallow the story whole, but to seriously consider what they were going to tell us about now and what's coming up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, it's clear.
		If the record, the hits are there, boom, boom, boom, boom, then yes, you can.
		Okay, so when were these predictions delivered to Billy?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Starting in 1956.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		1956.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		And Meyer was told that there was a connection between atomic bomb tests and the ozone damage.
		And he said that they told him that this affected things like there would be magnetic disturbances, polar displacement, environmental damage to the ozone layer and all of that.
		Now, as I say, this is 1956, but they start a series of official contacts with him in 1975 wherein the information is now to be published.
		So in February 25th of 75, and again on September 16th, they gave him updated information on the connection of the A-bomb testing to the ozone damage.
		And what they said was there were what they called high-frequency elementary radiation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let me stop you there.
		Where in science do we now understand that there was a connection between the atomic test and the ozone depletion?
		Okay, good.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Because this is where the lights went on for me.
		It's November of 1988, and I open a local newspaper, and I look down at an article that says, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratories announces atom bomb testing tied to ozone depletion.
		And it goes on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it's a new discovery.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		And they even tell the percentage of the damage, which was within 1% of what Meyer was told.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you actually have that article?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I even put it on the DVD.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		I scanned it in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Read me a little of that article.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, let me...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I don't care.
		All right, so November of 1988.
		You'll have to bear with me on this because I have to find that I'm sorry.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		The article was in a newspaper here.
		I'm talking while I'm trying to bring a PowerPoint.
		Bear with me, and I will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm bearing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But what publication do you recall?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		That was, let me see where that was.
		Oh, goodness.
		That was in.
		Oh, golly.
		When I get the PowerPoint up, I'll be able to tell you right away where that is.
		So bear with me, and hopefully I've got it on here.
		I opened other articles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but I just hadn't heard a lot of connection between atomic bomb testing and depletion of the ozone or the ozone hole or whatever.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, there's a lot to come here, and hopefully I'm on to it with all of this stuff.
		While I'm looking to bring this up, let me tell you this.
		When Meyer was going through all of this information, oh, here we go.
		Let me see if I can read it.
		It was in the Outlook Tuesday, November 29, 1988.
		I'm reading off my little screen here.
		Atmospheric testing of nuclear bombs during the late 1950s and early 60s apparently shredded parts of the Earth's protective ozone layer, causing as much as a 5% loss of ozone over the central United States, according to recent analyses at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory near Oakland.
		The Player and said 6.38%.
		Lawrence Livermore said 5%.
		Researchers think the huge fireballs from explosions hurled destructive chemicals into the upper atmosphere, where a misty layer of ozone shields the planet from lethal doses of ultraviolet solar radiation.
		The damage was even greater in the Arctic regions, where as much as 12% of the ozone layer reportedly vanished.
		The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has estimated that a 1% reduction in the ozone shield could mean as many as 43,000 additional skin cancers, etc.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold that Lawrence Livermore, that's pretty impressive.
		In November of 1988, delivered in 1956.
		Well, I didn't know about the prediction, and I absolutely didn't know about Lawrence Livermore having said that.
		So all of that is new information and kind of interesting to me.
		And then there were a raft of additional predictions that apparently came true, all designed to underscore the fact that it really happened to Billy Meyer, but more importantly, I guess that the message that Leorin gave was real.
unidentified		Transcription by CastingWords
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is, and we're discussing the Billy Meyer case with the American representative for Billy Meyer.
		His name is Michael Horne.
		And so far, I must say, this is really kind of impressive, particularly if you're hearing the story for the first time.
		Jumping from the photographic evidence, which is incredible by itself, commented on by people like Michael Malin, to the metallic pieces identified and rendered as something alien, to the sound recordings, and now to the things predicted for our world that apparently came true.
		The damage to the ozone by atomic testing.
		The comment by Lawrence Livermore in 1988 that indeed it was happening, that prediction made in 1956.
		And we'll track a lot more of those in a moment.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		Michael, welcome back.
		Let's stick with this.
		Let's stick with this for a moment.
		And, okay, we've got the ozone business.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, at just the beginning of it, may I just, one little thought over this for all the people that are listening, and I know you reach a worldwide audience, and I want to say this.
		I want to lay out, as you're inviting me to do, all of this evidence, and there's a bottom line.
		We're going to get to it, as you say later on.
		We have a unique opportunity in the United States and in this world to make the kind of a difference that is critical to our world that nobody's had before.
		And I'm going to get into that later.
		First, let me try to satisfy the inquisitive minds and the critical minds.
		We should all be looking at this critically.
		Here we go.
		Now, in addition to that connection to ABOM testing, they also told him that these holes in the ozone were going to allow the penetration of UV, and it was going to kill off microorganisms, and it would lead to disruptions in the food chain and genetic mutations and other long-term negative effects for humans and the planet.
		Now, that's, you know, this is, remember, this is 1975.
		Well, it turns out that in, oops, I lost my place here, but I'm going to get it back.
		It turns out that in 19, where were we?
		92.
		17 years later.
		17 years later, there's an article that appears, and it actually appeared in the LA Times.
		I'm going to bring that up here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're having a lot of trouble bringing things up.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you know, it's because I've got so much stuff in front of me with all this.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		I want to make sure that I get it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You get it right.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because people are going to be saying that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And people are just waiting to jump on any misstatement you make, anything at all.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, here we go.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		I've got it, and I think we'll be able to control it from here on out.
unidentified		All right.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Ozone.
		This is written by Joel Greenberg, the science editor at the L.A. Times.
		And it says, ozone hole damages food chain.
		Now, this is 1992, 17 years later.
		The expanding hole in the ozone layer above the South Pole is significantly reducing the growth of phytoplankton, minute floating plants, that form the foundation of the Antarctic food chain.
		Researchers reported last week, 17 years after Meyer was told this.
		The effect is the first direct evidence that the abnormally high levels of ultraviolet light coming through the ozone hole is having an impact on Antarctic populations, said geographer Raymond C. Smith of UC Santa Barbara, who headed the team.
		And it goes on to just elaborate on this.
		Okay, so let's go to something else.
		Now, this one I can't bring up.
		I can just tell you.
		They also said to him that bromine gases, this is at the same time in 75, bromine gases were another contributing factor to the ozone damage that they were used in agriculture and wood preservation and fumigation.
		And this one I can't bring up because it was in 1991.
		I'm listening to National Public Radio, and they had an announcement about the connection between bromine gases and the destruction of the ozone.
		Now, in 1976, one year later, Meyer is told that the extraction of petroleum and natural gas from the earth, as well as the damming of waters and construction of huge cities, were contributing factors to increased earthquake and volcanic activity and to another problem that we would be having.
		Okay.
		So I think we have an article on that.
		And bear with me.
		I can tell you that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think there's been any proof that cities and so forth contribute to the city.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's right.
		I'm not going to rest on that one.
		What I'm going to give you here is this one instead.
		This is in the Good Life Independent Journal newspaper, which was the week of June 21st to 27th, 1990.
		Here is the headline.
		Earthquakes, oil, interact.
		For four decades, the beach area has been plagued by unsuccessful threats of onshore and offshore oil drilling and by the knowledge that there are hundreds of substandard buildings which could crumble in a major earthquake.
		Now, Stanford's geophysics professor, Paul Siegel, has scientifically related both fears.
		He's published a mathematical model which suggests oil and gas extraction may lead potentially to serious earthquake tremors.
		Simply stated, Siegel says, when gas or oil that has been sitting in the pores of the rock is taken out, the gas reservoir shrinks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Okay, and I don't doubt that perhaps extracting large amounts of oil could cause disruption down low.
		That sort of makes sense.
unidentified		Well, it does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But what I want from you is, you know, I guess that's sort of a backed-up prediction, but big predictions that were made, if there were others.
		Oh, yeah, sure, there were others.
		Okay, then just give us examples.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't have to pull them all up on the table.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Okay, because some of this I do know by heart, the big newspaper articles are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's go to what you know by heart.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		In 1975, when Meyer was ostensibly being shown Venus, up close and personal, in a craft, and we'll talk about that in a minute, he was also casually remarking that the mountains down there, there was a mountain that looked to be comparable in height to what he said was the highest mountain on Earth, Mount Everest.
		At that point, Semyaze, the woman that he is being contacted by and traveling with at this point, says, excuse me, but you're wrong.
		Mount Everest is not the highest mountain on Earth.
		Now, this is a little incidental, but bear with me.
		This is a 21-year jump.
		She said, no, no, you don't measure it right.
		Mount Chimborazzo is the highest mountain on your planet because you have to truly measure, since the Earth is elliptical and not perfectly round, measure from the center of the planet, not sea level.
		Okay, 21 years later, in the 1996 issue of Earth magazine, they reported that now scientists have confirmed that Mount Chimborazo is the highest mountain on Earth.
		But that's a small little thing, 21 years.
		During that contact, Meyer was given specific information about Venus unknown at the time, which included the composition and percentages of atmospheric gases, the surface temperatures, the depth of the cloud bank.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's impressive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And all of that.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Was corroborated a year later by both the probes from the U.S. and the USSR.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Slow down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where did Billy write all of this?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		In these contact reports, see what happened was, after he would have meetings with these people, he would come home.
		And remember, now he's a man with one arm.
		They had modified a standard typewriter for him so that he could type at a very high rate of speed, about 60 words per minute or more with one hand, which basically means with one finger.
		They had recorded everything, and since he was a child, he had been taught over 1.2 million symbols, to recognize symbols telepathically.
		This is where it gets even more amazing, outrageous, whatever you want to call it.
		Well, what they would do is transmit back to him the entire conversation, not in English or German, but in symbol form.
		And while he was translating it in his mind from symbols to German, he was typing it simultaneously, often for hours at a time.
		Then he would run it off on a Xerox machine and disseminate it to the people that were studying it.
		It would find its way around Europe.
		Ultimately, it would be translated into English.
		Ultimately, Wendell Stevens, who would gather up all this stuff in about 1978 and 79, would publish it in books.
		And of course, the books have copyrights in them, and we know when Wendell had this.
		And so on the DVD, I've put the copyright pages.
		I've scanned in book covers.
		I've scanned in some of the original pages from the contact reports and Wendell's pages so people can read this for themselves and they can now scratch their heads.
		Well, how did he get this stuff in books?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This information was given to Billy to warn us.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but you wanted something really hot and funny.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do, and if you've got it, get it out there.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's start with this one.
		1978, he's ostensibly taken for a close-up and personal look at Jupiter.
		He is remarking in the conversation to his companion there that, well, Jupiter has rings.
		I didn't know that.
		And he starts talking about Europa.
		He says that Europa appears to be covered in ice, and there's the moon Io, which, he says to her, I remember you told me that's the most volcanically active body in the solar system.
		And then he goes on to describe how the rings of Jupiter are primarily formed by the expulsion of matter from the volcanoes on Io.
		And it's a whole technical long thing we won't go into.
		I contact the chairman of the astronomy department at Cornell University, Dr. Joseph Vaverka, a year ago in April.
		And I said to him, Dr. Vaverka, you know, I saw your name associated with all this information on Jupiter.
		You know, I know a Swiss guy that published some of this before you did.
		He said, well, that's a little interesting.
unidentified		Send it to me.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		I said, okay.
		So I send him the information on Io and on European stuff.
		And I get him on the phone one more time, I think, before he freaked out.
		And I said, did you read the information from Mr. Meyer about IO?
		And he said, yes, I did.
		And all I can say is, and this is close to the quote, and I have the quote on the DV.
		If he said that three to five months before, then all I can say is that he's right.
		Now, three to five months before, that's great.
		Except in 1998, Cornell comes out with the new discovery that the rings of Jupiter are formed of dust particles coming off of the moon.
unidentified		And it's published in'78 by Meijer.
unidentified		So now All right.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Now we're going to get to the heavy stuff where, if you will, we start talking about the events on this planet and what they already told him that already occurred.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		In 19, again, in 1978, in that same contact, when Wendell Stevens, Lieutenant Colonel, Wendell Stevens, U.S. Air Force retired, was at Meyer's property in late 1978.
		He wanted to have that information on Jupiter, and Meyer told one of the people to run off a copy for him.
		And then the phone rings.
		Meyer runs out of the room without telling that person to not give him the predictions for future events.
		They're in the same document.
		The person runs off the whole thing.
		Wendell takes the papers, doesn't look at it, puts in the briefcase, comes back to the States, starts reading it, and sees that there's specific things mentioned.
		And I'm going to read them to you so you know what they are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so all of a sudden Wendell opens the briefcase once he's back in the States and oh my god, here are the actual predictions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Billy did not intend to bring it together.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		What he does next is he calls up another military man, Rudolf Pestalozzi, retired major, and Mr. O. Richard Norton, who was the former director of Flander Planetarium in Tucson.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		These guys all read this, they sign off on it, and they hide it because these are the things that were in there which had not yet occurred.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's hear it.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Jonestown massacre, overthrow of the Shah of Iran, Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the Chinese invasion of North Vietnam, the death of Tito of Yugoslavia, Mount St. Helens eruption, the abdication of the Queen of Holland, the death of Indira Gandhi, the Iran hostage crisis, and the terrorist attack on the Iranian embassy in London.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		And Wendell Stevens and two other men have witnessed it and signed off on it, and those events occurred after their possession.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's impressive.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Not too shabby.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really impressive if the document time is authentic.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Wendell still has the document.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've got a perspective for Wendell, so I...
unidentified		Okay, I mean...
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		We're moving up.
		In 1978, Meyer writes that a comet would be discovered in the late 80s or early 90s.
		It would be named Teutatis, and that it would come close, possibly threatening the Earth, in September of 2004.
		In 1989, French astronomers discovered this comet, or as some call it an asteroid, and they named it Teutatis.
		It's predicted to come closest to Earth September 29th, 2004.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty impressive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would say that that is pretty impressive.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		In November of 1996, Meyer stated that there's two small planetary bodies outside of Pluto's orbit.
		He calls them trans-Pluto and Uni.
		Says they'll be discovered soon.
		October 7th, 2002, BBC reports that scientists have discovered a new planet beyond Pluto.
		In 1981, Meyer discussed information with one of the ETs concerning the 29 actual moons of Saturn.
		At the time he's discussing this information, he's only aware of about 12 of them.
		He's informed that there are actually more, maybe 15 or 16, but that the total number is in actuality 29.
		November of 2000, November of 2000, scientists announced the discovery of 12 more moons, bringing the total number to 28.
		We're now just one shy of what he was told.
		In February 28th of 1987, in what are known as the Enoch or Hanoch prophecies, Meyer is forewarned of the destruction of the World Trade Center by terrorism and a bunch of other things.
		And this is where we start to get to the meat of the matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My all count me as impressed if all of that is true.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm going to jump for a second.
		We'll come back.
		But, Art, I think you may still have the book and Yet They Fly.
		On pages 347 and 348 of that book are six specific prophetic or predicted events by Meyer, which have all come true.
		So what I'm going to tell you is what those events were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, please.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I put them in front of me here, and I do have them.
		Okay.
		Meyer predicted the following.
		You can find this.
		Some of it's a little cryptic, but some of it's very direct.
		The strike or the attack by the U.S. and its presidents, meaning Iraq.
		Meyer had said, on a broader scale, expect a strike involving the USA and its president that will stun the entire world.
		Now, when we attacked Iraq, do you remember what that attack was called?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which one?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		This last attack on Iraq when the war started.
		Let me not play guessing games.
		It's called shock and awe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Shock and awe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Desert storms.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		If you look up the cinnamon synonym for shock, you get stun.
		And if you look up stun, you get shocked.
		So Meyer threw the word in there in 1995.
		And then right after that, he correctly predicted the following upsurge in unrest and violence from Islamic fundamentalists.
		And while he said the obvious that AIDS was going to be spreading, he also said that mad cow disease would then spread to other animals and humans in increasing numbers.
		There would be a new disease and epidemic appearing, as Sarah did.
		And he warned that there would be a renewed threat and concern over chemical warfare, which is, of course, now more in the news than ever.
		We can't even find the weapons of mass destruction.
		But then, for those people that still think, well, he could have meant this or he could have meant that, he said, look, prophecies are alterable, so let me tell you the following.
		There is the chance of an accident at the nuclear power plant near Lyon, France, one of 436 nuclear power plants in 1995.
		On August 12th, 2003, the power plant near Lyon, France had an emergency situation and they did manage to shut it down.
		Now, that's pretty good stuff for a guy eight years before the events.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But all rests on when these documents really were in somebody's hands.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Sure, well, they were in your hands before your hands.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is true.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I downloaded the predictions from the internet in 1998, but they're in that book with a published date of 2001, and each of these things happened after that date.
		For those people that want to argue about hubcap Photos and that they can duplicate this and duplicate that.
		Can you figure out how he hopes that?
		And let me jump to one more thing.
		People have said, you know, he must be a good guesser.
		And so they're figuring that, well, he must have a whole bunch of guessers.
		Yeah, you know, he's lucky.
		And I said, you know, the funny thing about this, if Meyer was faking it somehow, or he was a good guesser, you'd have to have literally hundreds of erroneous, wild, you know, 10,000 monkeys at a typewriter situation.
unidentified		Sure.
unidentified		You don't.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		And you can prove it because the books have been published and they've been in existence for years.
		We've got the copyrighted books.
		We have the documents.
		It's all in the DVD.
		And this is where I'm going to tell people later on, you want to make a change in this world?
		When you start finding out what these people are warning us about here, if you're moved to participate, then learn about it and then at least contact, look, Art Veld, you reach a world of people.
		There's people during daytime that are talking on radio and TV and little towns and cities and big cities all over the country and all over the world that know nothing about this.
		And yet, if only they did, if only they would look at it and bring it to attention of other people, we might be able to awaken this world in a quantum way almost overnight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold it right there, Michael.
		Well, we have heard a lot of what seems to be extremely strong evidence regarding the validity of the physical evidence, including now the prophecy that came true.
		When we get back, we'll begin to talk about what Billy Meyer actually was told.
		There were warnings given to us, given to Billy Meyer for us.
		So if you believe part one, you're going to want to listen to part two.
unidentified		Cherries and an angel's kiss in spring.
		My summer wine is really made from all these things.
		My summer wine is really made from all these things.
		I won't be to be a little bit of a daughter.
		Let's pass some time And I will give to you Summer wine Oh, summer wine
		Strawberries, cherries and an angel's kissing spring My summer wine is really made from all these things Take off your silver spurs and help me pass the time And I will give to you Summer wine
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From West of the Rockies, call ART at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And by the way, if you want to reach me by email, it's easy to do.
		I'm ArtBell at MindSpring.com.
		That's A-R-T, B-E-L-L at mindspring.com or Artbell at A-O-L.com.
		Either one or both of those will reach me.
		Number two, we have now completed, in my mind, the first part of the program, and that is the evidence.
		And I think for any who were listening objectively, a lot of this is pretty impressive evidence, actually.
		We're talking about Billy Meyer and the contacts he's had.
		Now, part two is going to consist of moving on to the warnings that we as a people have been given by the Pleiarants.
		I believe that's close anyway.
		It's a new name, not Pleiadians, but Pleiorants.
		And Michael can correct me on that if I got it wrong.
		It's new, but that's what it was always supposed to be, according to Michael.
		And we've been issued a very specific set of warnings.
		Very dire warnings.
		And that's what's coming up next.
		Then we're going to go to the telephone.
		So, if you've got questions, and I know you do, that would be the moment.
		The End Kind of nice to hear the thunder going out occasionally.
		I guess they put that on there.
unidentified		And so I thought, what the heck?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think anybody listening to the last two hours objectively has to be a little bit impressed.
		Really does.
		Certainly I am.
		I think the evidence is pretty good.
		So now, a big question.
		Having accepted, at least for the sake of this discussion, the first two hours of presented evidence, let's now talk to the message that Billy Meyer was given.
		I think that's very important, Michael.
		But you have to lay that groundwork first, or nobody's going to pay much attention to the message itself.
		I agree.
		So what is it?
		Is it the Pleiarans?
		Is that the Prey?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Plearan, yeah.
		They actually called, they keep correcting what I said, they're simply called the Pleiaran, as in like the Pleiaran people without an it's not going to kill it to say the playarens.
		I was calling them the playarens, and I got a letter from one of the people who took some of the.
		Well, technically it's the playaren.
		Okay, fine.
		Whatever.
		But what I wanted to say about this, because we're going to lay out the stuff that you're just kind of announcing, prophecy and prediction are two separate things by definition here.
		And prophecy, as far as they're concerned, relates, or refers rather, to events, negative events, because usually you don't have to be warned about positive things, but negative events that will occur if we don't alter thoughts' actions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Right?
		And both, and predictions are those things which are already set in stone, and they may often have what you might call a cosmic origin, and simply means like a comet or an asteroid coming through or some kind of thing that's greater.
		But prophecies can turn to predictions if they've passed the point of no return.
		Both prophecies and predictions, as everything else in life, operates on the principles of the laws of cause and effect.
		there's nothing mystical here it's you know when we speak about prophecies were speaking about well Maybe, but in this case, what I'm trying to delineate is on Earth we've got weathermen and scientists and people that forecast sporting events and financial trends.
		We're used to the idea of people taking information and projecting outcomes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, our weathermen are a lot like prophets, and sometimes events coincide to make it not come true.
		Yes.
		Anyway, listen, there's a message.
		I want to get to that point.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		There is.
		And we get to the unique thing here as we get to this message, because it's a little heavy, and I want to set this up properly.
		I don't want to just scare people.
		I mean, heck.
		We get to do something about it this time.
		And there's a plan that if people want to make Billy Meyer wrong, let's make the play Aron wrong.
		I'm all for it.
		Let's prove that this does not have to occur.
		So what we're talking about here, we've come to something that's called the Enoch prophecies, or Hanoch prophecies.
		And they have now been, they're putting them in the new edition of the book.
		For anybody that wants to sit and go through the, there's pages of them.
		They are very, very intense and they cover a lot of territory.
		And we're going to go into that now.
		But when people get the book, they'll be able to go through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's hit the high points.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're all low points because they're high.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fine.
		Most news is the news at 5.30 by any of the networks.
		It's all low points.
		The nature of news.
		So just go ahead and get it.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so to do this, I have to just explain that the prophecies are not given in a chronological order for the reason they explain that if we knew exactly what was coming when, we would simply try to alter the event.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that the idea?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but what they're trying to get us to do is to see the big picture and to make some very profound changes in our individual and collective behavior and consciousness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, having said all that, lay it on us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to hear it.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		All right, so in order to do it, I have to read from some of this document or try to paraphrase it.
		So I'm going to jump here to something in the middle of a page where it says, and it will be that the fanatics of Islam will rise up against the countries of Europe and all will shake and quiver.
		This is from 1987.
		Everything in the West will be destroyed.
		England will be conquered and thrown down to the lowest level of misery.
		And the fanatics and warriors of Islam will retain their power for a long time.
		However, not only Europe will be affected, but ultimately all the countries and peoples of the earth as the great horror expands to a war that will encompass the entire world.
		After the turn of the millennium, the papacy will exist only a short period.
		Pope John Paul II is the third from last in this position.
		After him, only one additional pope will follow.
		Then a Pontifex Maximus follows, who will be known as Petrus Romanus.
		I think other people have said this too.
		Under his religious rule, the end of the Catholic Church will come, and a total collapse becomes inevitable.
		So this is, we'll stop here on this segment.
		As far back as 1980 or 81, they told Meyer that during the latter part of the 20th century and going into the 21st century, fundamentalist sects and religious cults of all sorts would start to arise, and there'd be a lot of pain and suffering over it.
		And they did point out the Islamic fundamentalists as one of the major ones.
		And they also said at that time, and they repeated later, that France will have an uprising from within that could overthrow France to a high degree.
		Remember, they're saying here that Islam is going to roar through Europe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this is serious stuff, all right?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		This is serious.
		Now, the reason I want to stop here is to say, look, I want to remind us at every moment, this is still, to some degree, alterable because there's a counterbalanced body of information where they have said, look, this isn't about pacifism.
		This isn't about you simply let things happen to you because self-defense is not only a right, it's a responsibility.
		But from their perspective, the way to deal with these things is very different than the way we're dealing with it.
		So I want to read more into it and then talk about that because this is going to bother you and a lot of other people.
		I'm going to jump back and forth here.
		So here's where it gets unpleasant.
		The USA will set out against the Eastern countries ahead of all other financial states, and simultaneously, she will have to defend herself against the Eastern intruders.
		In all, America will play the most decisive role when, in the guise to strive for peace and to fight against terrorism, she will invade many countries of the earth, bomb and destroy everything, and bring thousand-fold death to the populations.
		The military policies, or politics, pardon me, of the USA will likewise know no limits, as neither will their economical and other political institutions, which will be focused on building and operating a world police force, as it is the case already for a long time.
		Now, before people start, listen, I'm reading somebody else's words here, but they'll be mad at me.
		I don't care.
		It doesn't matter.
		Let me explain how I look at this.
		We in this country are an extended family, as every country could consider itself, and let alone humanity.
		If in my own personal family, I find out somebody brings me news that some cousin or Uncle Joe or Aunt Nelly is doing something that's really wrong or immoral, dangerous, or deadly, do I turn around and attack the messenger, or do I go about trying to find out whether it is so or not so?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, a lot of people attack the messenger, Michael.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		So my position, what I've kind of learned the hard way is I don't care what I like and what I don't like.
		I still may have them.
		But I want to find out what is so and what is true because then I can do something about it.
		If we continue, this is my editorial, if we continue to be focused on sticking our index fingers in the air, whirling them around, going, we're number one, and anybody that objects to anything is unpatriotic, we are in an awful lot of trouble.
		No one would run a company that way, let alone a family and let alone a country.
		So let me go on where they're continuing to slam at us.
		And by the way, they are equal opportunity offenders.
		They have something bad to say about almost everybody.
		But I'm more concerned right now with what they're saying here because this affects potentially you and me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		They are talking here, and it says, And this will point towards the possibility that a third world war could develop from it if human beings as a whole will not finally reflect upon reason and become reasonable and undertake the necessary steps against the insane machinations of their governments and military powers,
		as well as their secret services, and call a halt to the power of the irresponsible who have forsaken their responsibility in all areas.
		If this does not happen, many small and great nations will lose their independence and their cultural identity and will be beaten down because the USA will gain predominance over them with evil force and bring them down under her rule.
		At first, many countries will howl with the wolves of the U.S., partially due to fear of American aggressions and sanctions, as this will be the case with many irresponsible in Switzerland and Germany, but also of other countries.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You realize this sounds very anti-American.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		said that as i say they're equal opportunity defenders but i'm focusing on this at the myth you know at the risk of people being upset because you know That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't want you to...
		No, I don't want you to back off it.
		I'm just making note of how it does sound.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		You know, absolutely so.
		And Meyer has survived 19 documented assassination attempts.
		It's not because he's talking to the Benevolent Space Brothers.
		These people have said, we tell things as we see them and as we know them.
		We are not interested in political speech, in diplomatic speech, and in flowery words because it only delays the truth, and that makes things worse.
		We're giving you these warnings.
		You've asked for help from above in all of your unique ways.
		Here it is.
		But you have to help yourselves.
		We will tell you what we see.
		You can disregard it if you wish.
		You can work with it.
		You can change it, but we can't.
		So they go on to say in parts, others will join in because they will be forced somehow to do so or will be misled by irresponsible promoters of American propaganda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, we're already at war with Islamic fundamentalism.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No question about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But what you're suggesting there is that it becomes a full-fledged war, essentially, with Islamic countries, with Islam.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, no.
		Not only.
		Remember in here they say we're going to, America is going to beat down many small and great nations will lose their independence and cultural identity.
		They're actually saying we're going to extend this war.
		Now, I had this document in my hands when I was in New York, like two years ago, 2002, before the U.S. had launched the attack, I think even on Afghanistan, right before the Afghanistan.
		I mean, here it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think any American right now would be shocked at the possibility of a wider war with Islam and some Islamic countries if it's in the offing.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Of course, but here's where things are a little...
		This is where it takes other flavors.
		Finally, many Asian, African, and European states will rise up against the American hegemony once they recognize that the USA is only taking advantage of them for purposes of war, conquest, and exploitation.
		Well, this is not politically correct, is it?
		In this way, many countries will become puppet states of America before reason and realization will emerge in the responsible ones of governments and in many of the population, resulting in a turning away from the USA.
		However, the Great War will hardly be avoidable because the human beings of Earth will probably not accept the directions towards the better.
		They're with towards true love and freedom and peace and striving instead only towards wealth and pleasures and riches and for all manner of material values and vices and unrestricted power.
		Sounds a bit moralistic, but hey, I'm not going to overly comment.
		This is what they're talking about.
		Now, they go on here in this segment, and I'll get to where they talk about the World Trade Center and other stuff.
		But remembering now, this is from 1987.
		The first version of this was from 1980 or 1887.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that is well worth remembering as you listen to this when the timeframe that it came from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An awful lot's happened since.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, in this same document, as I say this, it's many pages long, in this document and in the original version where they didn't talk about the World Trade Center and this part, they've mentioned, for instance, they've said, in the future there's a danger of India and Pakistan entering into a nuclear conflict with each other if they're misled into this action.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Now, back in the'80s, they didn't even have nuclear weapons, but in October of 2003, we may all remember...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We were attacked.
		We didn't run over and attack any Islamic country or any training camps, to speak well.
		We did hit a few of those in Afghanistan a long time ago.
		But I mean, more or less, we took no major act of war against the Islamic fundamentalists.
		They certainly did come after us.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		So let me address how they have been addressing that, if I may, okay?
		Let me take a sip of water here because we're doing some industrial strength here.
		Okay.
		This is how they have expressed, to the best of my ability to express it right now, and again, people can actually read it all for themselves.
		What they have said is this, and they foretold this before the strike in Afghanistan.
		They said that to arbitrarily launch attacks that will go into countries and result in the deaths of lots of innocent people and will ultimately, more than likely, not result in capturing the perpetrators, is terrorism in and of itself.
		Well, how are we supposed to deal with this?
		And here's what they said.
		You in your world need what is known as a true global combat-peace force.
		That means armed, trained military personnel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who will beat the peace into people.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		No, I mean, it's, I guess it's an easy way to put it, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		You know, you're going to love me or else you have it.
		You know, well, what they're saying about it actually is that if this force is drawn equally from all peoples on the planet And operates under a true international legal structure with a true international court, whereby there is no party and no nation that is immune from the laws and the enforcement of it.
		This international armed peacekeeping or peace combat force is empowered to go and pursue any and all terrorists, dictators, revolutionary forces, warmongers, wherever they may be, once they are identified, they are sent en masse to go get them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, they spend it.
		Michael, some of the way they put it, the way it was said, sounds like it comes right out of an al-Qaeda pamphlet on why we hate America.
		Because America is going to come and do this to countries and do that to countries and seek out people and kill many innocent civilians.
		I mean, that could have come right out of an Al-Qaeda pamphlet almost.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		This is where we go back to something about what is true and what isn't.
		Now, that may or may not be true.
		I'm not going to tell you this is true.
		We have to decide this for ourselves.
		I am personally, I'm not going to back away from saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, don't back away from anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just telling you what it sounds like.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but here's the thing.
		Our enemies can also be right about things.
		That's the unpleasant thing.
		Just like we can be right about things about our enemies, and they're not going to like it.
		We have, in my opinion, we've got an illusion that just because we are powerful and successful and strong, and most of us aspire to the good, we champion it, we can do no wrong, or we would do no right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it almost sounds like America turns into a sudden Nazi Germany, a power laying down colonial lines for themselves all over the place and taking over the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's how they're making it sound.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		And there are those who have certainly published adequately to present that point of view, that it is something that our country, our military, our secret governments, whatever, have done.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		We've interfered in the affairs of countries everywhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		Hold it right there.
		We're at the breakpoint.
		And shortly after we come back, I'm going to turn this over to all of you.
		It seems to me like you might have a thing or two you want to say to Michael Horn.
unidentified		And this is impressive and interesting.
		and very concerning What a thing that you promised you ever.
		Will you ever win?
		She is...
		We came from somewhere back I'm not a fool, don't you?
		Trying hard to recreate what had yet to be created.
		Once in her life, she musters a smile for his nostalgic tear.
		Never coming near what he wanted to say, only to realize it never really was.
		She had a place in his life.
		He never made her think worse.
		As she rises to her apology, anybody else would surely know who's watching her go.
		I'm not a fool, don't you?
		See the words that pass upon her?
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach ART by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, what Michael Horne is saying that came to Billy Meyer really does sound anti-American.
		It makes us sound like a bunch of Nazis like we're going to go take over the world.
		However, I suppose if you thought of it from the point of view of the people that we call terrorists, that would be the way they, exactly the way they probably look at it, right?
		So, I don't know.
		Interesting.
		Whole thing is very interesting, and I want to give you, all of you, an opportunity to ask Michael questions.
		That's why we're at it a little bit early here.
		If you can stay right where you are, I'm sure they're going to be tough ones, and they're coming up.
unidentified		I'm sure they're going to be tough ones.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, once again, Michael Horne.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And again, Michael, you know, this stuff does sound as though it comes from the PR group on the other side.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and of course, as I said, I'm focusing on the stuff that pertains specifically to Africa.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that's fine.
		Kevin in Richmond, Virginia, for example, says after reading several of the documents on TheyFly.com, it seems to me that Billy Meyer is an anti-American activist.
		Why doesn't he attack the Islamic States for being the homicidal maniacs that they are?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, they actually, he has written about that, and he's called them depraved and murderous, and the fanatics.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Now, not all of Islam, because they've also distinguished them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, not all of Islam.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everybody knows that.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		not right now they talked about the fanatics the people who When the war in Yugoslavia was going on, they were calling all these people wannabe Rambos and insane people.
		I'm focusing on this stuff because this now is the information that appears and is here for us to either disregard.
		If we don't like it, we can just ignore it.
unidentified		I know.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Or we can find out if it's true, and then what do we do about it?
		We're hearing about this for a reason.
		We're not just here to entertain.
		This isn't an entertainment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
		I understand.
		All right.
		I've got people waiting to talk about.
		Sure.
		I'm going to get them on the air, but just let's be sure we've got all of this now.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		There is something that I'd like to cover first because as long as we're getting into this unpleasant stuff, let's do it, and here it goes.
		In addition, apocalyptic natural catastrophes will occur, which will cause all of Europe to shake and tremble.
		But Europe will continue to exist even after having suffered enormous destruction.
		Far in the West, it will be different.
		The US of A will be a country of total destruction.
		The cause for this will be manifold.
		With her global conflicts, which are continuously instigated by her and which will continue far into the future, America is creating enormous hatred against her worldwide in many countries.
		As a result, America will experience enormous catastrophes, which will reach proportions barely imaginable to human beings of Earth.
		The destruction of the WTC, i.e.
		the World Trade Center by terrorists, will only be the beginning.
		1987, art and listeners.
		Now it goes on.
		But you want to come out swinging, come out swinging.
		This is what they wrote.
		And what they have basically said is, in the simplest sense, if we want to avoid this befalling us, we pull out of Iraq and every place where we have troops stationed, we bring them home and we straighten out our own country.
		We defend ourselves from here if necessary.
		And, you know, a totally other state of mind for a lot of people who think we are entitled, because we're Americans, to be everywhere with 102 military bases all over the world.
		Well, we're being told by somebody else who doesn't care a hoot about what we think about it, no, that's going to get your country destroyed because the rest of the world in time is coming against you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have a question for you, Michael.
		You say all this with quite a passion.
		So much passion that a person listening like myself might believe that these are your views as well as the views that you're relating.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		These are my fears that it's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, are they also your views?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you what my views are, and they've been for some time.
		My views are that we have indeed interfered and continue to interfere in the business of other countries.
		I don't have this sense personally.
		I don't know that this is going to result in this.
		But to me, on the level of the laws of cause and effect, the pendulum goes out and it comes back.
		It comes back the way it comes back, not the way I think it should or the way I like it or don't like it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you know, when somebody knocks down two of the biggest buildings in the biggest city in your country.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why, you tend to react.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's what we've done, is we've reacted.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		We've reacted, but what we're being told, and people can argue with it, and I'm sure they do, we have to find out who is responsible.
		Now, the perpetrators, the original perpetrators, are all dead.
		Who was behind it?
		Can you identify those people?
		What the playarner is saying is, yeah, you've got to get these people.
		Terrorism does have to be stopped, but it's a technique.
		It's a means of fighting that, in their point of view, we are simply pouring gasoline on embers and recruiting more people because of what becomes indiscriminate art.
		I think we'd all have to admit that we don't see the nightly news from Iraq.
		We don't see our soldiers coming home in coffins.
		We don't see the damage to them over there, to the Iraqis.
		We are now having a sanitized, controlled media.
		Maybe, just maybe, it isn't the way we're being told it is.
		And do we want to look at it?
		Do we want to find out if these...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you're saying, do we propagandize our own people?
		Yes, of course we do.
		Every country on earth does that to their own people and the world at large as much as they're able.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So yeah, we do that.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And what these people have said, remember I said there is a counterbalancing body of information.
		All of this doom and gloom and horror we're talking about here, they are saying there are operating principles for human development.
		You're not the only humans in this universe.
		You're not the only ones at this stage.
		You're not the only ones who've gotten through it or those who didn't get through it and have to start over.
		But if you do not grasp the right rules of conduct, you will have to start over.
		You're going to, this is what they've said, if America does not withdraw from Iraq and these other things and Britain, and they've blasted Blair and all that.
		They have said we will lose two-thirds of our population on this planet as early as 2006.
		A third world war would break out from circumstances and events which will take on a life of their own and multiply and carry on.
		And they've outlined some of them.
		You know, is this just any crazy guy in Switzerland with doom and gloom?
		And let's just call him an anti-American jerk and Michael Horns talking about it with all this passion?
		I kind of care about not seeing this happen.
		So I can be wrong by, you know, quote-unquote believing that this could be true and by bringing it to people.
		But that's why I'm saying, will you people just do your own homework on this?
		If the case is legitimate, does it not at least bear examination and have the media and the government and the politicians look at something that's been going on for 62 straight years?
		A man has dodged bullets and knives for 19 of those years because someone wants to put him out of their misery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		That's a lot of trouble to go to for a hoaxer.
		How does a man raise a family with three people, you know, a 30-year marriage which crumbles while he's planting his crops and all the rest of it, taking 1,200 clear daytime photographs, eight films.
		He's got a video, sound recordings, and metal Samples.
		He publishes prophetically accurate information.
		He must be a genius, a mad genius, of a stellar level with astounding abilities, or he's a real contactee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's why you're on the air, Michael, because this is all very interesting.
		Disturbing.
		It's disturbing to hell.
		Yeah, it really is.
		Sure, it is.
		For a lot of people, it's extremely important.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		And that's why I say, please, folks, there are other specific little chunked-down personal things that each of us can do to actually turn this.
		We can turn it just by sheer numbers.
		You know that when somebody writes a letter, for instance, or calls a radio or TV station or a newspaper, whatever, just like when you do that with a political person, that registers in the media as representing a larger number than that individual thing.
		Imagine if the people tonight that are listening, they don't even have to believe this damn thing, but they want to demand that they find out.
		Look, this thing's going on.
		Let's find out.
		Could this be at all true?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I want to take some calls.
		Please field some questions.
		Let's do it.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Michael Horne.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to have to yell at us a little bit so you're not too loud.
unidentified		Okay.
		Michael, this is Vaughn speaking.
		How are you?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Is that Vaughan?
unidentified		Yes, it is.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Vaughn.
		How are you?
		Pretty good.
unidentified		Excellent.
		Now, you remember our talk at the Consciousness Expo where you told me that no matter whether or not we could duplicate the effect.
		Now, we never agreed on duplicating the photos exactly because we could never do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Vaughn, without giving your last name, who are you?
unidentified		My name is Vaughn from the Center for Inquiry West.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're a skeptic group?
unidentified		Yes, I am.
unidentified		Okay, okay.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		But you could duplicate the effect, you're saying.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Is that right, Vaughn?
unidentified		The effect is what we discussed.
unidentified		But at that expo, you told me, well, it wouldn't make any difference whether or not we duplicated or not, because you're still going to believe that Meyer actually had these experiences.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		No, that is a year ago.
		That's not what I said.
		I said you've had three years, Vaughan, to duplicate one of these photos and the film segment that you said was hoaxed, sir.
		And I said, go ahead and do it.
		You told me your photo lab was not set up yet, and I told you that Mr. Meyer didn't have the luxury of a photo lab.
		And in the three years period of time in which you had not produced one photo or one film segment, in that same period of time in the mid-70s, Meyer had produced 1,200 with multiple UFOs, and that these things had been examined by experts.
		And go ahead, I don't want to take your time.
unidentified		No, I just wanted to point out that we did talk at the Consciousness Expo, and you made it clear that whether we duplicated it even exactly, it wouldn't have made any difference to you.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		And of course, that was good reasons not to really pursue that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Vaughn.
		Oh, no, it's not a good reason, Vaughan.
		You could reproduce those, and why couldn't you?
unidentified		Well, here's another issue.
		Well, actually, we have some up on our website right now that were done with a $3 throwaway camera and some paper plates.
		And there's no way you can really distinguish, unless somebody told you that those were actually paper plates.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		No, the way you distinguish, Vaughn, is to subject them to the same critical photo examination that Myers did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		Okay, let me make something clear about a photograph.
		Photographs are essentially a work of fiction.
		in order to prove what's in a photograph you have to be able to have the uh...
		the item at hand you know when forensics uh...
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		The fiction here is that you will not subject those photos to microdensitometers.
unidentified		What's the densitometer going to prove?
unidentified		Nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		You're a photograph.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute now.
		Vaughn, hold on.
		Isn't it fair, Vaughn, to allow your photographs to be subjected to the same scrutiny that the Meyer photographs were?
unidentified		Well, that's fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why not?
unidentified		No, I have no problem with that.
unidentified		The problem is that that doesn't prove that the object in the photo is actually a UFO from another planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know that we prove anything at the end of the day, but to allow the same kind of examination would seem fair.
unidentified		And we have asked him to submit the Meyer's original negatives also.
unidentified		Yeah, so we're going to look at them, and I think that's fair, too.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		I think it's fair.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So do I?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		It'd be great if I had them, but I've got something better, and I've repeatedly offered it to you.
		The sound recordings are physical evidence, and you can download them, Vaughan, and go outside with a cassette machine and get 15 people around and record those sounds from a rotating device and have them put them through the same analysis that Myers were and give us the same results.
		You're going to give me more excuses, which you have for three years.
unidentified		I'm not giving you excuses.
unidentified		I'm just telling you that we need him to submit the material.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		No, you don't need it, sir.
		It was examined by experts whose credentials exceed yours by light years.
		And you have claimed that this man is a fraud.
		You have defamed him along with all these other second-rate pseudoscientists, and you don't prove it.
		Would you please?
unidentified		You have yet to provide the metal to us that you've claimed that's available.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Marcel Vogel held 32 patents at IBM.
		His video analysis is available.
		Buy my DVD and see it.
		And if you think Marcel Vogel was hoaxing, if you think Michael Mallon was hoaxing, and Wally Gentleman and Steve Ambrose and all the rest of these people, you need to understand that all those tests do not prove.
unidentified		All they're going to do is say, well, okay, the densinometer is going to tell you how much light actually went through the film, how dense the media is on the film.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		No, you'll get edge enhancement.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		You'll be able to get the data.
unidentified		Well, edge enhancement we can do with Photoshop, and that's been done before.
unidentified		But it still does not prove that that item in the photo is what it's claimed to be because hoaxes of photos have been going on since the mid-90s or 80s.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		This is the hubcap argument over and over.
		And if you will remember, what I also said to Yuva at the UFO conference was, listen, you go ahead and play with your photographs, but why don't you give me the prophetically accurate scientific information for 10 years hence?
		Look, you guys have come up with nothing.
		The film that you said was easy to hoax.
		He simply scratched the negative effect.
unidentified		So we duplicated the effect of this film.
unidentified		That's what we agreed to do.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		You've claimed that you were entitled to win a million dollars because we couldn't prove that Billy Myers' photos were you people have claimed that he's a defamer and a hoax you've defamed him as a hoaxer as a fraud.
unidentified		Well, I've never called him a hoaxer.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
		Now you haven't called him a hoaxer.
		I've got it from your people on your IIG department there.
		Look, so we don't bore everybody that wants to ask the questions.
		Let them go to the website and they will notice that your little UFO paper plate model is next to no trees or objects of known size as Meyers are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, why not?
unidentified		Now hold it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't let them go to the website.
		Everybody go to the website.
		Where's the website, Vaughn?
unidentified		It's IIGWest.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, you can link to it from our CFIWest.org.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, just one at a time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		IIGWest.
unidentified		I-I-G-West.org.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		IIGWest.org.
		So everybody can take a look at the photographs.
		Vaughn, I do think it's a good idea for you to allow those photographs, however and whatever they are, to be examined in the same way the Meyer photographs were.
unidentified		That works two ways.
		I agree with you.
		We don't have a problem with that.
		Vaughn, we seem to provide those negatives to us, too.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Vaughn, did the bomb go off at Hiroshima even though you weren't there to verify it?
		You know, you don't have credentials that come anywhere near all of the experts who've done this.
		But if you want to focus on the physical evidence, step up to the plate, have the report that matches the kind of examination, duplicate the sounds, and produce the film with the tune of the sound.
unidentified		You keep changing the goalpost.
		Now, first it was just photos.
		Changing the goalpost.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		You've got to change the goalpost.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on.
		Hold on.
		Listen, I'm going to terminate this.
		Vaughn, thank you.
		People can go to your website.
		I will too, iigwest.org.
		All right?
		All right, Vaughan, thank you, and take care.
		And Vaughn is a skeptic.
		I think it is reasonable that he would submit these to the same kind of examination.
		Now, for you, Michael, what have you done in terms of trying to get your hands, I mean, as the American representative for Mr. Meyer, on some negatives?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, the original investigative team had whatever negatives were available, but I thought I did something that was even better.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		What I hoped to do, and I'm not responsible for the printing, is I put in the hands of thousands of people a book that had six or seven, and actually more, we could get into that later, specific predictions of things which hadn't occurred, which have subsequently occurred in that sequence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, but Michael, can you not take a trip to Switzerland?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, surely out of 1,200 photographs, there must be an awful lot of negatives bouncing around somewhere.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		I will tell you what reduction is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe Billy's protecting them, as I would imagine he would very carefully, but a negative or two wouldn't be too much to ask.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you the problem with it, in my estimation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please do.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		I think that someone's going to say, well, this isn't good enough, and the folks at the Skeptics Organization are the ones who've raised the bar every time they're going to be able to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they'll never be happy.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		They'll never be happy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it doesn't matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why not go after some negatives anyway?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Because here's the real kicker.
		There still are metal samples available.
		No, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My goal, I don't care whether it's better or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As the American spokesperson, official, you should be able to go to Switzerland and say, Billy, part with a couple of negatives.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		You know, I can ask if they have them.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		It's like...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you haven't, I wonder about you.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you, the truth, in my perspective, is the photographic evidence, the films and all that stuff, even though it's still irreproducible, it's not where I put the emphasis on.
		Nevertheless, my people, you know, look, the best I can say is that the better people than I saw them and they examined them.
		It's 30 years later.
		Does Meyer still have them?
		I don't know.
		Because I simply don't.
		That's not my area of expertise finding their negatives.
		Well, if people hear them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If there's been a big controversy with our friend there, you might as well go ahead and try to get some negatives.
unidentified		They must exist.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		You know, I'll ask.
		I'm going to be there in May.
		I'll see if they have it.
		And I will say to you, look, if anybody thinks that that makes the case true or not true for them, that's fine.
		I'm not here to prove that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute now, Michael.
		It does make the case true or not true.
		If you got negatives and it turned out they were hoaxed, then you might as well take that whole story and just toss it out the window.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Lynn, here's something I think we could even look at just for a moment as an interim step before I go to Switzerland and try and get negatives.
		There is a video that Meyer took in 1981.
		It is taken on a bright sunny day outside where he is approximately 300 feet from a tree on a hill with a 14-foot bizarre-looking metallic UFO hovering in front of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now hold that thought.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		We'll come back to the evidence, the negatives, and the quest for the negatives, which would perhaps be the Holy Grail, or maybe not.
		Maybe, as he says, it wouldn't matter.
		They'd get the negatives and they'd rip those apart, too.
		I call them pixel people.
		I know.
unidentified		I know.
		Can some people really find water?
		To truck with Art Bell.
		Call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To truck with Art Bell from East to the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west to the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country spread access number, pressing Option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet coast to coast again with our bell either we've built another website or IIGWEB doesn't uh IIGWest.org doesn't exist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe we've done it wrong.
		We'll ask Michael about that in a bit.
		I had quite a few past last day doesn't happen.
		It doesn't exist.
		And I just got a return of alert uh could not be found.
unidentified		So, is there even such a website?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		in a moment we'll ask You know, I understand to some degree how the rest of the world could view us as in the U.S. as kind of colonial power, of a colonial power and an interfering type power.
		And I, as you know, I had a lot of questions about the Iraq war and the advisability of it before we ever did it, back during the days when we actually were debating it.
		I had many questions.
		I still have many questions, and I do understand how some of the rest of the world could look at us.
		Nevertheless, as read by Michael, the message would appear to have come, I think I said, from an al-Qaeda-type pamphlet about the United States.
		It's just the way it reads.
		I do, however, understand the impression that some of the rest of the world may have about America, Michael.
		I understand that.
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		I'm trying to find, I had an email with their entire unedited correspondence.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		To see their pictures, if you want the link, I can tell it to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, iigwest.org doesn't say that.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		No, it's .com forward slash, and this is one word, UFO picks, P-I-X.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on here.
		It's .com.
		He didn't tell us that.
		Forward slash UFO picks?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Mm-hmm, P-I-X.html.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		And then you can look at their photos right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he didn't have it right, did he?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		It was late.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll get it.
		All right.
		I've got the.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		I think there's some cute photos there, but you'll notice that none of them are next to, well, look, let people decide for themselves about photos.
		But, you know, I wanted to get back to it because I know it sounds like I'm fudging something.
		I don't have access to negatives.
		Let me just posit something for a moment.
		If I came to you and I said, hey, Art, I or someone I know has been out in the field and they're underneath a UFO and they're hearing these sounds and they're really fantastic.
		And you said to me, well, can you prove that?
		Can he prove it?
		I said, well, you know, the funny thing is, he recorded the sounds.
		And he said, well, let's get those sounds tested.
		And I said, you know, we've got those sounds.
		We can test them.
		And then the tests are run at maybe two, three, or more different laboratories.
		And the experts say, hey, this is the specs on these sounds.
		We can't generate them.
		And so someone calls up and says, well, I want those.
		Where's the original sounds?
		I say, well, fortunately, we have them.
		And they're free.
		I don't have to go to Switzerland for them.
		Yeah, I'm going to go to Switzerland and ask for negatives.
		And if they've got them, and if they give them to me, I'll come back and I'll say, fine, who's going to test them?
		And we'll give them, you know, you go round two on it.
		But let's not dismiss the idea that genuine physical evidence exists right now.
		And not only that, all of you folks out there with synthesizers and musicians and sound engineers, go ahead yourselves and try to duplicate that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, there's a challenge.
		What have they said regarding a deep impact by some kind of comet or asteroid?
		Is that the September date we were talking about?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		They did not give the date on it.
		They did give a location, as I recall, between the Black Sea and the North Sea.
		And what they said was that this is a prediction.
		We're going to get it at some point.
		And the problem, remember when we talked about the petroleum being extracted from the Earth?
unidentified		Yes.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		And they said the other problem you have with that is this.
		The petroleum is produced by the planet as a kind of buffer, a synovial fluid, a cushion for the plates of the Earth.
		When you recklessly and heedlessly extract it and the natural gas and you create these caverns, you create a plate fragility so that when an object comes in from space and hits, instead of the planet absorbing the blow, you have fractures, you've got magma coming up, you've got seawater.
		So they're saying, you know, again, folks, you haven't paid attention.
		You've got to get off of that petroleum thing, but you've gone pretty far.
		You've set yourself up in a very vulnerable position.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right.
		Back to the phones.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Michael Horne.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
		Oh, I'm sorry I didn't hit the button hard enough.
		Now you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		I'm not saying I believe or disbelieve any of it.
		I've been listening to it since the show started.
		One thing, or a couple of things I'd like to comment on, first of all, I think you're 100% correct in the rest of the world does see the United States as I believe anyway, everything I hear from the news that we're better than everybody else, and I can see how they would think that.
		But on a couple of notes, one thing I heard him talking about earlier is these one set of photographs that were taken, he would go off into the woods or whatever and bring back these negatives right to these people who were waiting for it to do the tests on it.
		Why didn't these people go with him in the woods to see it along with these other 100 people unsaw it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's all right.
		Good point.
		Good question.
		Thank you.
		Yeah, why not?
		Why not have group sightings?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, there were.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		You have to understand that by the time the investigative team was over there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, why let him wander off by himself?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, part of it was the protocols that they set up.
		They said, sure, there are going to be other people that you can photograph the ships many, many, as I say, there's 100 witnesses To the ships.
		But they said, look, our meetings are strictly going to be with you and with you alone.
		For too many cooks spoiled abroad.
		But for instance, Guido Musbruger, who's the author of that book, the new edition, And Still They Fly, he took photos of their ships.
		Freddie, this guy who's a cook over there in Switzerland, that I said was outside, he and 15 other people were sitting around snapping photos.
		Again, the UFO part of it has become, for the Europeans, old news.
		It's not old news to us because we're still trying to prove it, and this is part of the plan, the controversy around it.
		And look, if you think I'm in a funny position, Billy Meyer, for all these years, people, even when they have this stuff showing up in these incredible photos, oh, it's a hoax.
		You're a faker.
		They're shooting at him.
		The guy's had a life of misery because of this.
		So anybody, look, if Meyer turns out to be a true prophet, if this stuff is true, and I think anybody that studies it is going to be able to validate it for themselves, you've got a clear message here.
		Being a prophet is not on anybody's list of gigs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's never been a good thing to be.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Never.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, at best, Billy Meyer is a messenger, not a prophet.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Call it what you like, it's fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not a prophet.
		These are not insights.
		Well, some of them are a story.
		Oh.
		Yeah, yeah.
		Okay, now let's delineate between what came from the Klair-Rons and what.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me focus it this way.
		And let me just jump back to one thing that I said, and then I'll answer.
		There is a document that Meyer wrote, and there's a few conversations between him and the ETs where they said, you know, people have said this is coming off as anti-American and harsh.
		And I said, well, clarify that we don't mean the American people.
		We mean their government.
		We don't withdraw from that.
		Their policies are not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, fine.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everybody makes that disclaimer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fine.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they did, yeah.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		But let's say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I still want to delineate here.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		The prophecies, the predictions, pardon me, in the book, And Yet They Fly, which will also be in Still They Fly, that related to the attack on Iraq, the Islamic fundamentalists, the near-accident nuclear power plant.
		That was all written by Meyer.
		There is something called Contact 251, and there is more of that in the book that many of you already have, and the new editions coming out.
		But you already have it.
		There's stuff in there about Mars and what we're going to find there, the DNA experiments, the human and pig DNA experiments.
		When Meyer wrote that, those hadn't happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		supposedly has given my error the power to prophesies then uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		with with regard to what he has said by himself is a power imparted by the I will try to tell it as cleanly as I can, and I'll put it this way.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Remember, we went back to the reincarnation thing, and they said that they contract spirit forms.
		What is said in the material, just as bold face, as far as they're concerned, it's their truth.
		Meyer's spirit is a very, very old and tested and tried spirit.
		They knew that he had done this before and had the capacity in this life to be tutored again.
		He would learn how to do it again.
		But it would be his own innate abilities that he had earned as a spirit form, not as Billy Meyer, but whoever he was before, that kind of stuff, that he was the guy that would be able to do it again.
		And as you say, it's always been a thankless job.
		And there have been people throughout history in different cultures that have been messengers or prophets or heralds, whatever you want to call them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Michael Horne.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Oh, hi, Lord.
unidentified		How's it going?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's going okay, sir.
unidentified		It's like there was a couple of moments in the show, everybody should have sat back and taken a Xanax.
unidentified		Wow, a lot of energy here tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, energy is our middle name.
		What's up?
		You got a question?
unidentified		Yes, Art.
unidentified		Okay, now, you know, Billy is contacting with this Type 2 civilization out in the Pleiades, correct?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it a Type 2?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that fair, Michael?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		What does that mean?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, I'm ignoring it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		well that's sort of a uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		it's it's it's something that uh...
unidentified		Well, Flockborne is supposed to be you're able to utilize the energy of the entire Earth's atmosphere from the sunlight striking it over a course of one year.
unidentified		Type 2 is that you keep utilizing all the energy out of the sun over the course of one year.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		This is a little...
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		These are people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a Michio Kaku-ism about the advance of civilization.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		They're beyond this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're beyond that.
		All right, Caller, finish it off then.
		So he's saying yes.
		The answer is yes.
unidentified		Okay, now what I want to know is, if they have all this great technical and scientific and medical abilities, why didn't they just try to regrow Billy's arm?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		They actually offered him a prosthesis that utilized their kind of Android technology, and he said, well, no, this is an illogical thing to do, because should I suddenly have an arm back that functions so well, not only would people be wondering how this happened and where, but they would engender jealousy and more resentment, and it would be an inequality, and I'd be treated as a special person, and it would only create more grief for me than not having the arm.
		And that's what he told them.
		And they said, well, you're very logical.
		That's good enough for us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that is probably what would occur.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, actually.
unidentified		There's no doubt.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		I mean, here's a special guy that goes around, and he says he's in spaceships and now his arm is back.
		I mean, then you've got a cult of, oh, he must be the second coming or gosh knows what.
		And then you're back off into that whole drama again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Horne.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Well, good morning to both of you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Speak up good and loud, dear.
unidentified		Okay, well, I just, I would like to know what the publishing or the name of the publishing company that these books are published with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which books?
unidentified		The books of the prophecies that were, he said something about 1978 or something.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Okay, all of that's...
unidentified		Those books.
unidentified		They don't exist?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Genesis 3, as in the biblical Genesis term.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She's asking if she can still get the book.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		You have to go onto eBay or Amazon.com or whatever.
		Some are still being sold.
		I own two of the four volumes.
		Many people have them.
		We have scanned into the DVD the pages on these things so that as close as many people will get to them.
		But they're owned by many people, and some of them, yes, you can go in.
		If you look For message from the Pleiades, and you do a search on it on Amazon or eBay or whatever, it will come up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, there you are.
unidentified		No, no, because people can publish, I can publish my own book, and I can put whatever copyright dates in there that I want to do.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Let me shorten that up and say this: my dear friend, when you publish a book in 1978 or 1980 or 1986 or whatever, 1990, and it comes out and it contains this information.
		And then eight years later, this information is revealed as a new discovery, and you're holding in your hand the document that came out before it.
		That's called a legal standard of proof.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, it is.
		It is.
		So go ahead and see if you can find those books, ma'am, and good luck.
		So they are available.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they're out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Amazon and maybe that sort of thing.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, do a Google search, something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right, good enough.
		Wells to the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Horne.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, very grateful for voice in this.
		I'm a devout listener for five or six years.
		Christopher from Pueblo, Colorado, KJCK.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		590.
		I want to thank you very much, Mr. Horn and Mr. Bell.
		As always, this is very you're one of the few that's bringing out some real information here.
		I don't think the point is whether the pictures are even valid or not.
		I'd rather get back to the real issue, which is the United States' stance in the rest of the world.
		I mean, the real issue is our reflection of how the rest of the world sees us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but for the purpose of this program, sir, the issue really is, is Billy Meyer the real thing?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		And, Art, man, you have to take all of the evidence into consideration and the preponderance.
		If this is presented to a jury, here's the preponderance of evidence.
		What are you going to do with it?
		I mean, the hard evidence is the higher standard of proof.
		It's the prophetically accurate stuff published before it happens.
unidentified		Well, from what I've heard, I'm actually convinced that it's legitimate.
		The prophecy, I mean, the parts that he had already said these things that have come about.
		I mean, we should take into account what he's saying is coming.
		We don't even need a prophet to see what's coming.
		These things are pretty obvious truly anyhow.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
unidentified		I mean, we're heading downward and we have to turn around here.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		We're just being told for what it's worth by some other folks that it's going to be worse than we can imagine if we don't make the course correction.
unidentified		I agree.
		And it's a grassroots movement.
		It's something we have to do on an individual basis.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		That's what I'm trying to do.
unidentified		I've been trying to start a grassroots organization here called the Masterpiece Project for years, and I can't even get it off the ground.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, if there's enough support for any organization or anything you're trying to do, it will grow.
		But again, the purpose of the examination of this program is not to put the United States on trial or anything else.
		It's just to present the information and try and decide if the whole Meyer story has substance to it.
		And it does seem like it does.
		I understand that what you said about the U.S. is going to put a lot of people off, but I'm not here to judge.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Michael Horne.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, hi.
		Hi.
		I had a question for your guest.
		He was talking about Palestinian conflict there.
		I was wondering what was the outcome prediction on that?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you asked it, so I'm going to give it to you the way I've read it.
unidentified		Go ahead.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Unless the Israelis and the Palestinians find a way to make a true peace, and they've been critical of both, they've been very critical of Israel.
		They have said that the State of Israel will in the near future cease to exist.
		Period.
unidentified		And they look.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think they reference what we know biblically as Armageddon?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, they don't use those terms, but this is my editorial on it.
		You have to understand, I'm neither a religious nor a political person.
		It's very late in my life, but I even started to look into these things.
		And what I did is I picked up, and this is going to offend all my brethren who, let's say, are of the background that my family is Jewish, I got into the first five books of the Old Testament.
		I read parts of Samuel and Numbers and what the heck, Joshua, and all this.
		And I saw something there that disturbed me enormously.
		I saw the presumed God of that book commanding infanticide and genocide on a huge, huge scale.
		When I sat down and actually culled and did the math, there were 10 million people at minimum who were commanded to be slain, most of whom were innocent non-combatants.
		And this is not necessarily a program right now on biblical stuff.
		There is a cause and effect that has never been renounced by the Israelis.
		We in America renounced our genocides, if you will, against the Native Americans, our unfair and brutal treatment against blacks.
		We've tried to do something about that.
		That's never been dealt with or renounced.
		And I would offer a very unpleasant point of view.
		The horror that's being visited upon innocent Israelis now, truly innocent people, children without any, this is barbarism.
		But there, again, the laws of cause and effect can't be cheated.
		Read the Old Testament and you will see the commandments for infanticide without mercy.
		I didn't make it up, and it sickened me, and it made me sad.
		And as I say, I come to this late in life with no political or religious affiliation.
		But you know what?
		When the playarinhere is saying, look, Yasser Arafat, this is a walking disaster.
		Ariel Sharon is as guilty as the rest.
		Saddam Hussein has to go.
		George Bush, Blair.
		Oh, well, we don't like the Bush part, and we may not like the Ariel Sharon part.
		But there it is.
		Do with it what you will.
		Examine it.
		Find out if this rings true and do the hard soul searching.
		Are we on the wrong path?
		Should we not withdraw from certain things lest it come back on us?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		It's worth considering, Michael.
		No question about that, or I'd hold tight right where you are.
		These are hard questions.
		A lot of them come down as sounding really anti-American.
		But every now and then, I suppose as Americans, we should examine how we're thought of and perceived in the rest of the world.
		Right?
		That's a reasonable thing to do.
unidentified		What a wild night of radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Under that big full moon up there.
		But then again, that's what we're here for.
		From the high desert in the middle of the night, this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Another night, another day goes out.
		I never saw myself do one around.
		You have to do, forget to play my role.
		You take yourself, you make myself ungrateful.
		I, I live among the creatures of the night.
		I haven't got the will to try and fight.
		Against the new tomorrow, so I guess I'll just believe it.
		Tomorrow will never come.
		I said, night.
		I'm living in the forest of the dreams.
		I know the night is not as it would seem.
		I must believe in something, so I'll make myself believe it.
		This night will never go.
		Oh, oh, oh.
		Oh, oh.
		To target with Artfell.
		Call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To target with Artfell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 80825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800618-8255.
		International callers may recharge by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free, 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast, and worldwide on the internet.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Every now and then I scan my email, you know, sort of looking at what the reaction of the audience is like and all the rest of it.
		I kind of like the guy who told me to go to hell.
		This is I'm turning it off right now.
		Said, go to hell.
		And then he sent 15 more emails after that about every single word that was said.
		Oh well, Michael Horne is my guest, and we're talking about the Billy Meyer case, an extremely controversial, and as of tonight, perhaps with some of this information, even much now, more controversial story.
		Whether you believe it or not, that's up to you.
		We are but the messenger.
unidentified		We are but the messenger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Michael, you've made a very impassioned case for Billy Meyer, and so I feel like I should give you a chance to honk your wares.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And your wares are a DVD, right?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and the new book will be out.
		This is what I wanted to say to your listeners about that.
		There's two books coming out.
		One is a soft cover copy, and one is the hardcover on and Still They Fly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to have to speak up all of a sudden.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You got weak.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are you doing?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Oops, there we go.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Can you hear me now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, much better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what you're doing, but.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I think I fixed something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		My DVD is there on the website, and the two editions of the book, a soft cover and a hardcover, and Still They Fly, is scheduled to be released on March 12th, in a little less than a week.
		But I want to tell any and everybody who's going to order the book, please be patient.
		With printers, things are always late.
		So we'll ship everything.
		If you want to buy this stuff, we'll ship it as soon as it comes in.
		Just know that up front.
		I wanted to say one thing before that, if I may.
		This is a little hard for me in a way because, as I mentioned to you, I've never been a particularly political or religious person.
		My father's family escaped the Nazis from Austria and came to America.
		My mother, as an orphan at 10 years of age, escaped the communists, went into Europe, and then had to flee a few years later from the Nazis.
		So they came here.
		They made a family here, and we're enormously grateful for coming here.
		And as a first-generation American, I'm enormously grateful for waking up as a human being in this country.
		It doesn't mean that everything that the country does or that's done in the country's name is good.
		And good people can disagree, and we do.
		I am presenting information that I feel in that sense, it's awkward because I am a vocal spokesperson for this case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		And because I have spent 25 years studying and examining and trying to see where the loopholes are and truly not finding them, oh, sure, there's controversy.
		But it's just the accuracy of the information to this point has been so painfully and impeccably accurate that I feel I owe it to myself, my family, and to anybody here at the risk of being, you know, I think there's this guy, J.Joe here, thinks I'm an anti-American.
		Maybe he's the one that's writing you.
		I'm not.
		I'm anti-death and destruction for us.
		And if we find that something is wrong, we must examine.
		And if it's wrong, we have to change it.
		There are ways to do that.
		And at the very end of the show, if I may give a plug for that, I will.
		But I want to thank anybody who wants to go.
		You send me an email.
		You can yell at me whatever you want.
		If you want the DVD or the books, they're at my theyfly.com website that Art is kind enough to link to.
		So look at this stuff for yourself.
		This is a four-hour introductory course to it.
		And for many people, it's the first they've heard of it because you've had the courage to put it on.
		And if anybody's interested, they can find out for themselves.
		Is this just a big bag of nonsense, the biggest, most impenetrable?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's fair enough.
		If you're intrigued enough to want to know more, then that's the way.
		There we go.
		All right.
		International Line, you're on the air with Michael Horn.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello, Art.
		This is David from Toronto, Mr. Crawford in the F-Net room.
		My question for you guests is, if Billy encountered the aliens and was on the ship, why are there no pictures of the aliens or the interior of the UFO?
		There is one on the FNAS.
		All right.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		To the best of my, I have seen one photo that is allegedly of the inside of a craft.
		I wouldn't put my money on it because it isn't clear enough for me to know that that's for sure it's why aren't there more?
		Well, what happened and what was told in there, and when you read the conversations, it goes down conversationally, Meyer had problems inside the ship because of some kind of fields that were fogging his film.
		He did take pictures, and they are on the website, some of them, from one of the ships successfully of two other disks above Switzerland where he's in the air at about 30,000 feet or whatever it is, 10,000 feet, I don't know.
		And there's two other craft outside the window of the ship.
		He has pictures taken in space.
		But again, some of these, there's pictures where I can say, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he could be inside the craft taking a picture of other craft hovering nearby.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		How come he couldn't photograph inside?
		Yes.
		The way they did it Is they put the camera, if I'm recalling this correctly, up to a screen that was showing the outside, and he got some clear shots.
		There may be in Billy's possession some photos of the interiors that he hasn't released.
		Maybe they're on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're about to go see Billy, right?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to ask him.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		You know, I'll see what they've got.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, if you talk to them, make a list of things that you want to ask about.
		I mean, being the official American spokesperson is a very large responsibility.
		And he should understand that, that there are many, considering history in this country, when you listen to a program like this.
		And you need as much evidence as he's willing to give.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		As he's willing to give or can give.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		It's still.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you should make your case with that strength, that you're coming speaking to the.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		I will do it.
		I will put it forward.
		I think I know one of the answers because I've spoken to people there, and what they've said is, look, to us, the UFOs, it's not what it's about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		it's about our future survival yes if what exists already has Art, I think we still have two things.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		The video that pans 300 feet across.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got a lot.
		That's why you're here, brother.
		On the air, because there's a lot of evidence.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		And the sounds, I mean, that's still, that's level one evidence.
		It's physical evidence.
		So I'll carry the message, but you know, I'll do my best.
		That's all I can tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Michael Horne.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Mr. Horne.
		Yes, ma'am.
		I'd like to ask you a question about the code, but before I do that, can I ask you about in the volume one of the contact from the Pleiades, all the pictures, there's something written here, a single second in the timeless amounts to many million years in normal space, and it's signed by Pata, a Pleiadian cosmonaut.
		And is that the same Pata of the Egyptian days?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		No.
		That's been, of course, something many people have asked.
		And in the material that he alludes to something, he says that there was a distant connection of some form.
		It's just the name that he uses, or perhaps it's his given name.
		But that's the best I can tell you on that.
unidentified		Are there any pictures of him and Senniasi?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		No, the pictures that Billy has, there are some photos that will be also again in the new book.
		They're cut off on the face.
		It is of one of the ETs when they loaned him a handheld laser beam weapon.
		And she is in a gold metallic suit with a silver bracelet connection to it.
		Now, when I just spoke to Wendell Stevens in Laughlin, who is the primary lead investigator in the case, and we talked about the photos because Meyer was told to cut the faces away.
		They don't want people focusing on these and starting to worship E.T. They said, okay, you can leave in the arm and the side and the suit.
		Well, Wendell went over there because Meyer had been loaned on two occasions in 1976 and 77 a handheld laser weapon, ostensibly.
		There's photos of him with it.
		And he put holes in a couple of trees with it.
		Well, when they went to investigate, they figured if this guy's a hoaxer, what he's probably done is taken a welding torch or a drill or something, and we'll be able to detect it.
		They found that around the holes, there was a little bit of char, but the holes were bored clean through and were smooth as glass.
		They had been penetrated instantaneously at an enormously high temperature.
		But beyond that, somebody had the brilliant idea, since one of these trees faced into a forest, they took a string and used it like a plumb line through the hole, and they dragged the string in a straight line through, and they found that every twig and branch that was in that straight line was singed as well by this beam.
		And they just said, you know, this would be an impossibility for somebody to have oax this.
unidentified		Can I ask you a question about the code now?
		I'm sorry.
		Go ahead.
		No, go ahead.
		Well, I have his 33-page booklet, Life in the Spiritual and Physical, by Billy Meyer.
		Yes.
		And he mentions, interwoven into all of Billy's German text is a code.
		The code elicits impulses from the spiritual realm, the Akashic Records, which then touch the reader and begin to become active from within.
		This process is subconscious.
		Further down, it mentions about the English language, the foreign languages.
		For these reasons, each translation of Billy's text into a foreign language will have the original German attached.
		But does that still work in English?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		No, what they've said, and again, let me just put this for everybody that's listening, under the term, this is speculative, let's not, you know, I'm not saying it's so.
		What they've said is this.
		The German language is in some ways related to the ancient Lyran or Lyrian language of the distant forefathers of the Pleiarans, our distant forefathers.
		The German language is constructed in such a way as it can convey these impulses when read, even if you don't understand the language.
		When you read it or pronounce it, there is a connection to what's called the Akashic record surrounding the planet that has a subconscious effect and actually helps with our spiritual development.
		Take that for what it's worth if you want to look into it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sounds almost like you're talking about the Bible code.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, except that Meyer was, this stuff was published decades before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, same concept, right?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		In a sense, yeah.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		For all intents and purposes, where we're at right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on air with Michael Horne.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		My name is Junia.
		I'm calling from Tulsa.
		I'm listening on 1170KFAQ.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, ma'am.
unidentified		And I think this is one of the most important programs you've ever had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I appreciate that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		That's a good one.
unidentified		I had a question about, has Mr. Meyer written several books?
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		He's written, just to clarify, the books that are available on the website were written by a man who has known Meyer for 25 years, came to investigate it a bit as skeptic, an Austrian principal and school teacher.
		Meyer himself has written many numbers of books, most of which remain in German language.
		However, some have been translated into English.
		Some are in the process of being translated.
		Many of the conversations Are being also again translated into English so people can read them in the approved forms.
		So, more will be available.
		There are literally, there's over 10,000 pages of documents that Meyer himself has written that have yet to be translated into English.
		The Pleiaran have said that this is an 800-year mission.
		We're not changing the world overnight.
		We're going to have controversy and all the rest.
		This is going to, if indeed what they're saying is true, develop over eight centuries.
		And what they say is the end result for us, if we get through all these times, don't blow ourselves to smithereens, we will become what they call true human beings.
		Long lived with multi-hundred-year lifespans, more spiritually evolved.
		There's a lot of promise in this.
		On the website, there's something that's called Here's How to Help Change Things Now on my document page.
		You can go and read that.
		There's a document from the Plearan as well, 21 points, or it's called What the Pleiaran Wish for the People of Earth.
		We have all this other positive stuff here, just asking people to look at it.
		So don't view this as doom and gloom.
		But sometimes what the Pleiaran has said is this, you have to wake people up with harsh and true language, flowery, nice words.
		Don't do it.
		If something is true and people need it to at least have the opportunity to know it, tell it to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I never could buy into the Space Brothers.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		It's a bunch of bunk.
		There's no ascension coming, folks, where there's no ascended masters.
		I mean, if you get into the biomaterial and look at this, it's going to upset your belief systems every which way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, ma'am, thank you.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, take care.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on air with Michael Horn.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to have to yell at us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not too loud.
unidentified		Can you hear me now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's better.
unidentified		All right.
		My name is Colin of Kansas City.
		KCML 710 is how I'm connected.
		Michael, what I want to know is at what point is the point of no return?
		What are the course of events?
		It has to take place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a very good question.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
		Hi to Mike Murphy over there, too.
		What I've been able to gather is they have said you must, the U.S. has to reverse its, it has to pull out of Iraq and cease to inflict on other countries.
		That's number one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If he was searching for a time frame, where would the parents...
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		You may not like it.
		Call the guy an American.
		Call me an American, anything else.
		That's what they're saying.
		There's even a peace meditation.
		They say there are 3.2 billion people, extraterrestrial humans, that do it on our behalf with several thousand people around the globe.
		You can check into it.
		The peace symbol itself that we use is an inverted Symbol, as far as they're concerned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Out of curiosity, I wonder if the Pleians would rather have had Saddam Hussein remain in office.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		No, here's the thing, as I understand it.
		Let me finish the thought on the peace symbol and the peace meditation.
		We need to invert the peace symbol so it doesn't have the militant sword-like energy, but is more like a tree, an opening thing.
		We have that on the website.
		You can look at that.
		But regarding Saddam Hussein, he was one of the people that was pointed out that had to be removed, that had to be taken from power.
		What they've said is there is a right way and a wrong way to do it.
		And we might love the fact that we took him out of power, but they told Meyer a year ago, what is coming for America and Britain is increased attacks and very vicious attacks on the forces that will be seen as occupied.
		They told him this before it started.
		And they said the greater likelihood is that there will be a Shiite dictatorship to come into Iraq because you have done this in the wrong way and for the wrong reasons.
		And they are also, I mean, look, there's plenty of harsh stuff here.
		If you have callers that have questions, believe me, Art, I'll do my best.
		But people got to look into this for themselves, like it or hate it.
		There it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		One more, maybe.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Horne.
unidentified		Well, hi, gentlemen.
unidentified		I have two points for Mr. Horn to comment on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		On Blair from Sedona.
		The first has to do, there's a Federation of Sorts overseeing us, Michael.
		If Art Bell had David Serrita on back in 2001 talking about these huge balls of ice allegedly propelled from space, missing Earth satellites while replenishing the ozone.
		And the second, and I'll hear it off the air, Whitley Striever and John Lear both agree about us being soul containers, whereby, you know, we're sort of like the best show in town, this part of the universe.
		We've got a lot of people watching us, a lot of entities.
		And if we use our inner work and sincere prayer, we're going to open up a sort of an astronomical acupuncture line of healing, sound, and light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if the Pleians actually regard us that way.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I'll comment as best I can.
		Again, I might be an authorized representative.
		I don't know every opinion on everything.
		But what I gather is this.
		I don't have a direct comment on the balls of ice being thrown.
		The Pleiarin have said it's going to take several hundred years for the ozone to heal if we stopped polluting now.
		And that was in 75.
		As far as being sold containers, whatever, as I stated earlier, my understanding of the material is this.
		The Plearans state that we, like all other of the millions of existing human races at various levels of development in this universe, which is only one of billions, have a part piece, a hologram of the creation.
		That is what they call the living, conscious, creative energy that created all things, sustains all things, and will live and birth yet new universes.
		I'm giving it to you in a nutshell.
		That little piece of that is our human spirit.
		We are destined over time.
		Since we are not fallen, we are not inherently guilty of anything.
		We are not sinful by nature.
		We have the potential for positive and negative.
		Through countless millions of incarnations, that human spirit form incarnates in different human beings.
		That's us.
		And we eventually remerge with the higher spiritual levels.
		This is information.
		Contemplate it, refute it, think about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Michael, we're at the end of the program.
		Listen, I want to thank you for being here.
		You're very, very, very passionate.
		You've been a very good guest.
		you really started up a good buddy and i hope i haven't been too hard on you had a lot of fantastic claims sometimes do require Yeah, and a fantastic interview, and you certainly have provided that.
		So I want to thank you for being here.
		No doubt we will do it again.
		There is so much material to cover, so much to do.
		Thank you, Michael.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		It's my pleasure.
michael horn ▲ ● ▼		Thank you if we can ever answer questions for people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
		And it's been a great weekend, folks.
		Absolutely been a great weekend.
		I want to thank you.
		We return you tomorrow night to George and Coast to Coast A.M. And I'll see you next weekend from the High Desert.
		This is Crystal Gale with always just the right words to take us out.
unidentified		Midnight in the desert, shooting stars across the sky.
		Thank you.
		This magical journey will take the sun around the longing, searching for the truth.
		We make it to tomorrow when the sun shines on you.

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