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Oct. 25, 2003 - Art Bell

03:34:39

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Paul Moller - Skycars & Vampires (classic)

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01:11:10

nemo the vampire

41:39

paul moller

01:03:35

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great Americans of Westminster, good evening, good morning, whatever the case may be, afternoon, I don't know how to roll those time zones.
unidentified		Here it is, the weekend once again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Mark Bell, and this, of course, is post-to-post a.m.
		Gonna be a lot of fun this weekend.
		Lot to talk about.
		Actually, a lot of guests.
		We're gonna do a special five-hour program tonight.
		Why?
		Because tonight we retrieved an extra hour from the cosmos.
		That's right.
		We get an hour back.
		But oh, what a pain in the butt it is.
		I wish to give my yearly rant for a moment against the insanity that is this changing of the time.
		There's no modern logical reason for it.
		And it's a pain in the butt.
		I've easily got 40, perhaps even 50 clocks if you count my automobiles and 40 or 50 clocks.
		And a few of them, yes, are atomic and set themselves, even though, with the perfect solar storm coming down, that may not happen.
		So I ran around like chicken with my head off earlier tonight and did what I was doing, change the clock.
		We must stop this madness, I tell you.
		Pick up pen, pencil, go to your computer, write to your congressperson, your senator, tell them to stop the madness that is this time change twice a year.
		Absolute, total madness.
		There is, well, perhaps in the olden days where farmers, you know, had to out of work late in fields or whatever the reason was.
		And they talk about school children, but I mean, half the year they're in the dark anyway.
		So what's the big deal?
		Why don't we just have one uniform time across our nation?
		Not actually one uniform time, but one time that doesn't change.
		Arizona does that.
		A number of other states don't change their time.
		It's ridiculous.
		It's time-consuming.
		It's annoying, and there's no reason for it.
		So write to somebody.
		I don't care.
		Write to a relative.
		Complain.
		Get the ball rolling.
		Some politician out there could be our hero.
		They could introduce a bill to stop the madness, stop the clocks from changing twice a year.
		I hate it.
		Anyway, listen, a couple of notes.
		Dr. Paul Mahler is going to be here tonight, and we're going to finally get an update on the Sky Car, my dream car.
		No question about it.
		We'll tell you all about it here in a few moments, and then a little later in the show, we'll change gears, to say the least, and we will interview a vampire.
		Nemo is a living vampire.
		That should be interesting for a totality of five hours.
		Now, this next coming Friday night, Saturday morning, I am honored, privileged to be here to host Ghost to Ghost, the annual Ghost to Ghost show.
		Now, we're going to pull a slightly different trick.
		I've done something like this in the past, but never before.
		It's a very serious ghost program on Halloween.
		Very serious, because I'm very serious about the topic, actually.
		And it's entirely caller-driven.
		There are a million ghost stories out there in the big city, and what we want, of course, is the very best, the very scariest of them all.
		And here's how, in part, we're going to do it this year.
		While, of course, we will take calls from the larger or the at-large audience.
		I wish you to do the following for me.
		If you have a particularly dramatic, scary ghost story, I want you to write a very small synopsis, a paragraph or two will do, and email it to me, along with your telephone number.
		So when this next Friday and Ghost to Ghost begins, I may call you.
		So what I'm going to do is pick the juiciest of them.
		Although, you know, you never can tell.
		Sometimes people who can write can't speak.
		But nevertheless, give me a brief synopsis of your ghost story, and then give me your telephone number.
		And on the night in question, be alert and be ready because I may call you.
		That'll be Ghost to Ghost this coming Friday night, Saturday morning.
		And so if you want to get in on it, if you've got that very special story, then include your telephone number in the email.
		When you email me at artbell at mindspring.com, that's where I am, artbell, A-R-T-B-E-L-L, lowercase at mindspring.com.
		Now, of interest on the website right now, CoastCoastAM.com, there is an article entitled Art Bell the Time Traveler, which is a website that just, you know, sort of showed up, which appears to blame me for the Cubs' loss.
	Remember when the Cubs lost?
	Do you remember when the fan interfered?
	Well, it would purport to show me in a time travel situation as actually responsible for the Cubs' loss.
	And it was pretty funny, so I said, yeah, I go ahead and put it up.
	I don't know who did it.
	Then there's a couple of interactive things up there.
	A game, which is kind of fun, called the ESP game, which matches your ability to match somebody else's mind.
	It's an interactive web kind of thing, and we've got that up on the website right now at coasttocoastam.com.
	Now, we have one more interactive thing, though.
	It certainly is not a game.
	You remember the polar melting business?
	Well, the man who did that for us, showing what has happened at the top of the world in the Arctic has done another version of it, and this one's even better.
	Interactive in the sense that you can go, there's a little slider here, and you can go from the slider at the bottom from 1976, I believe, I'm still trying to get it loaded here, it's very slow, through now, 2003, and as you slide the slider across, you will note very quickly the profound, profound changes occurring in the Arctic as a result of whatever.
	You know, I don't even want to get into an argument about what it is.
	Yes, as 1979, actually, through 2003, and just move that slider along, and you will see the Arctic deteriorating before your eyes.
	And for those of you that don't think there's a problem with the top of the world and the bottom of the world melting before our very eyes, as graphically depicted here, well, then I don't know what kind of wake-up call you need.
	So, interactive, but indeed not a game.
	Briefly, looking around the world, in Baghdad, six to eight rockets struck the Al-Rashid Hotel.
	There were warnings of this early Sunday, where the U.S. military and civilians stay.
	It looks as though there are a number of injuries.
	We don't know how many yet.
	In Gaza City, Israeli forces retaliated Sunday for a deadly attack on militants on a nearby Jewish settlement.
	Continuing the cycle, never-ending cycle in the Holy Land.
	In San Bernardino at this hour, there's tragedy underway.
	A wildfire, actually San Bernardino and also the Rancho Cucamonga area of California, where I have a very good friend at this hour worried for her house and her town.
	But now the big fire appears to be in San Bernardino, well, they're both big.
	But the San Bernardino fire has already destroyed 200 homes, threatening thousands of others, forcing mass evacuations.
	And I'm sorry to say the outlook, in my opinion, would not be good.
	The winds blew in the desert here from the north, northwest, and the northwest at 10 to 25 miles an hour all day long today.
	And these are the winds that compress as they go over the mountains and then become what are called the Santa Ana's, which are going to continue to blow through the weekend in the fire-affected areas.
	It's going to be, well, is a real terror.
	So good luck to everybody there.
	You're going to need it with the winds coming the way they are.
	The wildcard Florida Marlins did it.
	They have won the World Series.
	And with that news, no doubt, not very comforting to my friends in New York City listening to WABC.
	There were a lot of dejected New Yorker faces for me to see earlier tonight.
	Away we go in a moment to the sky.
	Now, my dream has always been, along with time travel, flight.
	I broke my arm trying to hang glide up in Alaska.
	It was a terrible compound fracture.
	It was awful.
	So I have always wanted to fly all my life.
	Now, what I would like you to do, you've already got several reasons to be going to the website.
	I'd like you to go to coast2coastam.com.
	And on the right-hand side, upper right-hand corner, tonight's guest, Dr. Paul Mueller, just click on Mueller International.
	And when you do, you will see the M400 Skycar.
	That is what we were about to talk about.
	This is a private, I don't know, car-size sky vehicle that will soon be taking you from point to point, kind of like the Jetsons in the Jetsons, if you will, as a very loose way to put it.
	Now, this is a real thing.
	This is not a dream.
	Obviously, it was a dream.
	Dr. Mueller had a dream.
	It's coming true.
	Dr. Mahler is a founder, chairman of the board, and has served as the president of Mahler International since foundation in 1983.
	Mahler International was formed to develop a powered lift aircraft called Skycar and other related technologies.
	Dr. Mahler holds a master's in engineering, a PhD from McGill University, professor of mechanical and aeronautical engineering at the University of California.
	Not a lightweight, obviously.
	That's a University of California Davis course from 1963 through 75.
	In 1972, he founded Super Trap Industries, which became the most recognized international name in high-performance engine silencing systems.
	Dr. Mueller has received 43 patents, including the first U.S. patent on a fundamentally new form of powerlift aircraft and yet another on the revolutionary rotopower engine.
	In 1997, he created Freedom Motors to manufacture and distribute this engine.
	in a moment dr. Mahler and the sky car By the way, I gave a woefully short shrift to what I called the perfect solar storm.
	I actually was awake watching solar conditions when this incredible M5 or 6, whatever it was, flare developed at about 3 o'clock in the morning.
	And I called some of my friends.
	I was on the shortwave radio at the time.
	I said, my God, look what's happening.
	Holy moly.
	So I have a lot more to say about this.
	Right now, it's Skycar Time, and I hope you've had a chance to go up to the website and see this incredible vehicle.
	Here is the man responsible, Dr. Paul Mahler.
	Doctor, welcome to the program.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Yes, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's been how long?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gosh, I had you on the air last, how long ago?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I think it's probably close to two years or more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		At least two years.
		And so obviously there's a great deal of new listeners to the program, and they won't have any idea at all about the Sky Car.
		So not only do we have to do an update tonight, but I guess we have to, you know, kind of go back to basics and tell people who are just tuning in tonight, what is this?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Sky Car is really a vehicle in aircraft, as we call it, that combines what the helicopter can do with what the airplane can do.
		Of course, an airplane needs a runway.
		That's a great limitation.
		A helicopter has a wonderful ability to take off vertically, but it can't fly very fast.
		It's extremely difficult to fly, and it's quite dangerous because there's a lot of failures, all those mechanical parts whirling around.
		So this does the function of both.
		Plus, it's also roadable.
		It's also legal.
		I wouldn't say the highways much as I would say the roadways, say, around the city to get from your home to a vertiport, a place to take off from maybe a couple blocks away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Earlier today, CNN was saying, now that the Concorde is gone, what is the future of air travel in the world?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the answer, I don't know the answer for the large aircraft, but everybody should know the Skycar.
unidentified		Well, the Skycar, how big is it?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It's the size of a large automobile.
		It'll fit in a single-car garage.
		So it's a four-passenger vehicle.
		We also build a six-passenger vehicle, but that one would not fit in your garage.
		It's a little bigger than that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the four-passenger would be about like the average American?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It would be like a large American car.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A large American car.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		The one that I first came to when I clicked on Mahler Industries was the M400.
		Is that the current?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's the one we're test flying right now, yes.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's the one that would certainly be the first one that someone would be able to buy within the next few years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Within the next few years.
		Well, that's what, of course, everybody's going to want to know about.
		But I'd like to, when I go to buy a product in electronics or something, I always go to the page that shows me what it'll do.
		What's the performance going to be?
		What are the statistics on the Skycar?
		What do we know?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, it flies fast because, and one of the reasons you can fly fast, of course, is that you end up having to have quite a bit of power when you take off vertically.
		We always compare it to a hummingbird, which has a pretty high metabolism rate for a good reason.
		It takes off vertically with significant power, and then, of course, that same power can be used to fly quite fast.
		So you can fly at 325 miles an hour, 25,000 feet, or you can fly at a couple hundred miles an hour at sea level.
		You could fly fast at sea level, but you'd be like burning your tank of fuel quite quickly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about its maneuverability characteristics?
		You know, I mean, we're talking here about, I guess, about the general public doing this, right?
		I mean, this is something you're going to want to offer to the general public eventually, at least, right?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
		Yeah, well, there's many stages.
		The first stage, this would be a vehicle that would compete with helicopters and airplanes today.
		But this vehicle is a vehicle.
		It's pretty electronic in every sense of the word.
		It has all the electronic brains on board to fly itself, which it has done a number of times.
		And therefore, you really can think of it in the future in the perhaps five-year, ten-year period where you will be delivered in this vehicle from point A to point B. I know the pilots aren't going to like that.
		But really, if you're going to be up in the air, you certainly don't want some drunk flyer, incapacitated, perhaps with alcohol or something of that nature, flying around up there in the same world that you're in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		so you're you're really gonna want it to be automated that's the way it's going to be you know i if i recall correctly uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		you rely heavily on automation as in you just get into the vehicle i suppose to have about some How do you envision that occurring, for example?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, every city or area will be coded in some way, and we haven't set up a code, but that's something that would be fairly straightforward.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		The more complicated issue, of course, is generating this virtual highway in the sky, which is a long story, and I'm certainly going to be happy to tell you a little bit about it, but it's an interesting story of what's happening with regard to the highway in the sky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, as it is now, Doctor, you know, controllers, air traffic controllers, are always on the edge of a heart attack.
		I mean, and that's just with the commercial aircraft that we have in the sky.
		You know, they're directing them and pushing aluminum, I think they call it, or whatever.
		Anyway, it's a pretty high-stress, high-energy job just for the commercial aircraft.
		But what if we had, I don't know, hundreds of thousands, millions of sky cars in the air?
		How in the world?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, the problem today is that the airspace is really chaos.
		It's really not organized.
		If you fly a light plane today, you better be looking left, right, and center.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Because it's visual rules, and you're supposed to decide if somebody's out there who may be crossing your path.
		As you said, these air controllers are working so hard, you really can't count on them for the small planes.
		And periodically, of course, small planes run into big planes.
		But it's a chaotic world, but that's changing.
		We have incredible technology coming down right now.
		Of course, we're all familiar with GPS, the thing that guides your car around and tells you where you are.
		Just recently, they put in a geostationary set of satellites that re-accalibrates GPS so that you get accuracy within a very few feet.
		And then beyond that, they just issued a contract for what they call LAS Local Augmentation Systems for airspace, where you'll be able to know where every aircraft is within inches at all times.
		This is done automatically.
		You don't have to worry about the air controller not looking in your direction on the screen at the right time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the air controllers, do you still think by the time the Skycar is airborne in large numbers that air traffic controllers will have the same job or will commercial aircraft be controlled in the same way?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		They'll be controlled in the same way.
		In fact, the purpose for this system, clearly, they're not building it right now for the Skycar because for most of them they don't know the Skycar exists.
		But they are building it for the commercial airliners because this will make them much more efficient.
		They can go from point A to point B very accurately at all times because they don't have to worry about other aircraft in the air.
		You'll always know where they are.
		You'll have all kinds of warning systems.
		They're going to have a big buffer space around each aircraft so that you run into somebody else's buffer space, you know about it.
		You don't run into the aircraft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This would be a typical like a family car, right?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It would be like a family car.
		It has all of the characteristics of the family car.
		And of course the one advantage it has is that it really gets into a world that is essentially unused today.
		It may be chaotic, but think if it was organized, how much space there is up there, I've always been willing to point out that if you put all the cars on the road in America, at the same time, they'd still be miles apart if you used all of the airspace above us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And had them all proportionately away from each other.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Or organized in a coherent way along a highway in the sky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
		All right, Doctor, hold on.
		We're here at the bottom of the hour.
		Dr. Paul Mahler is here, and he is manufacturing, testing now the skycar.
		We'll tell you all about that.
		a personal vehicle to travel from here to there three hundred plus miles an hour The After Dark Newsletter.
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		Arbunla Can you hear my heartbeat in this corner?
		Do you know that behind all this corn?
		Like this tea tea, say, I'm in the head.
		Make money for...
		Up and away, my beautiful fall, my beautiful fall.
		The world's a nicer place than my beautiful fall.
		Make money for a nicer place than my beautiful fall.
		We can sing the song, sing along with silver stars.
		Before we get...
		Up and away, my beautiful fall, my beautiful fall.
		Rechart bell in the Kingdom of Nai.
		From west of the Rockies, dialed 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I suspect the dream of flight is nearly as old as man himself.
		I'm sure as soon as he could walk, he thought about flying.
		He looked up and saw the blue sky and said, oh, wouldn't it be nice?
		Well, it will be, and it's going to be real soon, too.
		The Sky Car.
		Take a look.
		It's on the website at www.coastcoastam.com.
		Just click on tonight's guest.
		Let me get it exactly for you because I really do want you to see it.
		quick on Mueller International upper right hand corner and you'll get to see the model that we're talking about right now.
unidentified		music
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These days, if you go to buy an automobile new car, you're probably going to spend, I don't know, 20 or 30 grand for a pretty good car and 50 or better for a really good car easily.
		And so that jumps out at me.
		Doctor, in production, once in production with the Skycar, what do you envision the price might be?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, you know, it's very unique to talk about aircraft and high production because it never happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's good.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		We're doing a lot of projecting here.
		But one of the things that we started out with in this company was to produce an extremely low-cost engine because we knew if you're going to have a lot of power, that you're going to have to produce a cheap if you're going to produce the car inexpensively.
		And that was a goal of ours set back almost 30 years ago now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were looking at the Wonkle engine.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's right, because it was the only thing that was out there that had a large amount of power in a small package and was still inexpensive.
		So we developed the engine, and that meant that the price of the vehicle could be down at the cost of an automobile because the engine price is comparable to that of an automobile.
		Now, again, that's for the moment we'd say a quality automobile.
		But anything below $50,000 would be very hard for us to project because it would depend on huge numbers of vehicles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it might be like what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Buying a Mercedes, say?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, depending on the model.
		$50,000.
		One of the things that people don't understand, though, that if you buy an airplane for the most part, there's a small depreciation at the beginning, but historically, aircraft prices remain pretty level.
		So there's an average depreciation of about 2% per year where a car depreciates at 10%.
		So the actual real price, the dollar that it costs you over a period of time is much less.
		Even if you pay $50,000, it's probably equivalent to more like $20,000 in terms of actual depreciated costs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about places that you could land the Skycar?
		I mean, do you envision a situation where you could, I don't know, I have a friend in Rancho Cucamonga I mentioned earlier.
		Could I enter Rancho Cucamonga and Joanne's coordinates, let's say, on the GPS system and say you're going to land here and it will?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It would do that.
		You might, for the moment at least, get a few people upset because it's still not as quiet as your family Cadillac, but it will be.
		We are working on mutual noise technology that'll bring it down to a level where it would be comparable to your car.
		That's a few years away and a few million dollars.
		But it is possible to land it anywhere.
		It does still generate a wind.
		That's unavoidable.
		And so you really, unless you're going to clean your neighbor's yard and a few other yards nearby, you probably would prefer to land on a roof.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As much wind as your average helicopter?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, comparable.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		But that's a significant amount of wind, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is, but heck, they land out here near my house all the time.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm thinking of right in the middle of a residential area.
		But yes, if you've got a little bit of space, you get a decisive size yard.
		If you're near a rural area somewhat, it wouldn't be a problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Everybody's going to wonder about stability, and I'm sure that's at the top of your list, too.
		In designing and now building this, what stability problems have you run into, and where are you in the world of stability?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was an expensive solution for us because it took a lot of time to design a system and generate the algorithms to make this vehicle behave better than a human.
		And of course, one of the reasons it can fly better than a human is because a computer is faster, not necessarily smarter.
		We don't need it to be that smart.
		We just need it to be very fast.
		And so we have on board 25 microprocessors working together, about 30,000 lines of code.
		A highly redundant system, though, so that if one system out of four fails, the other one takes over.
		If that fails, another one takes over.
		And you have different people write the software.
		So that if there's a software error, like Microsoft seems to have almost continuously in their systems, you have a backup system written by a different group of people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		So lots of backup.
		And it would be, as a result of the software driving the engines, it would be how stable?
		Very stable.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		We have flown this in windy conditions.
		We've built a number of very small versions of this, which are more difficult, in fact, to fly stably than big vehicles.
		And we've delivered them to the military.
		And these vehicles will hang in the air.
		You'd think they were anchored to a post, actually.
		They're that stable even in windy conditions.
		So, yes, we solved the stability problem.
		That was really critical, of course, because if your grandmother's going to fly this thing or fly in it, you certainly want it to be comfortable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know one of the reasons you didn't come on the show at an earlier date was because you wanted to get some test flights under your belt.
		That's correct.
		And I guess you've done that, haven't you?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
		We've been flying it for almost a year now.
		So far, we haven't put a pilot in it.
		We've been flying it remotely because that's our typical startup mode.
		We can learn everything we want, and actually to fly it remotely is actually more difficult than having someone in it.
		But we're getting ready to do a test with a pilot aboard as we put more powerful engines in place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're close to that now?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we're expecting, we're actually building a lake, a test lake, for purposes of a little bit softer landing if something goes wrong.
		So we've got a five-acre lake under construction that would allow us to fly over it.
		And there's a lot of other reasons too, of course.
		If you go into a lake, you don't have dear the fire hazard and many other things.
		This is a fairly dangerous activity when you're starting out, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
		So four average people or four people would be able to get into this model, punch some buttons, and at 300 plus miles an hour, go to wherever they want to go.
		What about fuel, Doctor?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're running with alcohol right now.
		Alcohol is a sort of a politically correct thing to do, perhaps, in today's world, but more important than that, alcohol is a much safer fuel.
		If you, again, have something go wrong in your test light program, you're not going to become a, you may become a small ball of fire, but you won't become a big one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does alcohol have the same sort of combustion rate as gasoline, for example?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you get enough power?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It works in the engine about the same as high-octane gasoline.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		You don't get quite the range out of it, but it actually has an octane rating well over 100 rather than your car, which runs around now at about 90.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		So it's a good fuel, and of course it burns without any of the unburned hydrocarbons and the carbon monoxides that you normally would have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Another obvious question is range.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so what do you envision, not so much what you have right now, but what do you envision for, say, the M400, if it were actually in production, what sort of range would it have?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, the maximum range is 750 miles.
		You could certainly fly further than that if you weren't fully loaded with four full people and baggage.
		But we have to quote, you know, when you quote these numbers, you have to quote it for the full all of weight.
		And so it's 750 miles.
		If you had two people on board, you could fly twice that, more than twice that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Airplanes and things that fly are very dependent on weight, aren't they?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's for sure.
		And that's one of the things that's happened that's made the Skycar possible.
		We have to give a lot of credit to technology.
		We've done a number of things and invented a number of things to make it work.
		But new materials have made it very much more practical today.
		These high-strength carbon fibers, which we use extensively, high-strength magnesium and aluminum.
		There's even some new materials coming down that we're very excited about that are even better than what we're using at the moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to stick with the rotary engine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does it look that way?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		We don't have an option.
		Turbine engines would certainly deliver the power, but only the very rich could ever afford this vehicle even 20 years from now.
		So it really has to be the rotary.
		It's the only engine that has the power, the reliability, and the multi-fuel capability, ability to burn any kind of fuel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If this engine is so good, Doctor, why was it it was in the Mazda for a little while and then it really didn't catch on and it sort of fell away?
		I had a rotary engine Mazda.
		I loved it.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, you ought to be happy it's coming back.
		The RX-8's coming back.
		It's got about 25% better modage, which the original ones did not have.
		So there's enormous improvement.
		But it is not necessarily the ideal engine for the automobile, although it's extremely smooth, as I'm sure you experienced.
		Oh, sure.
		It's ideal because it's fully dynamically balanced, like the turbine engine, because it's all rotating mass.
		It's not a piston stopping and starting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, have you noticed that the rotary engine produces a magnetic field?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would think any rotating mass could very well do such.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		We haven't actually made any determination for that, but I'm sure it would be an easy thing to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It actually does.
		As I said, I had a Mazda, and it had a rotary engine.
		I had one of those compasses like everybody has up on the dashboard.
		And it permanently fixed that compass in one direction right at the engine.
		So there is a magnetic field there.
		It's kind of interesting.
		I'm not surprised.
		Okay, so people should know that you're past the dream stage on this.
		I mean, you're actually, this thing is built, folks, and they're testing it.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It's been a little slow coming because it turned out to be, obviously, like most technologies, a lot more complicated to work out a few what would have thought of as simple bugs, but they turned out to be a couple years apiece to solve.
		But we have, yes, we have flown, as you know, an earlier version very successfully.
		It was not nearly a fast vehicle.
		It was a two-passenger Jetson-looking type vehicle.
		We flew that in 89 for the international press.
		So we've been flying, I've been on board aircraft in the air, 100 feet in the air with previous vehicles.
		So it's not, yes, it's been around for quite a while, and we're just moving towards a much more practical version, one that goes very fast, which is, I think, important in today's travel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, sure, it is.
		But wait a minute, back up a little bit.
		You say you were actually on board one of these yourself.
		I didn't know that.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		In 1989, I flew a vehicle that looks just like the Jetson's vehicle, a bubble-domed two-passenger vehicle, and everybody was there from Good Morning America to all of the Hollywood magazines and People magazine was there and did an extensive article on it.
		So we had a very, very successful flight in 89, but the vehicle was not really a vehicle that was designed to go quite quickly.
		It was about a 100-mile-an-hour vehicle, which may seem fast enough for a lot of people, but you burn the same amount of fuel with this design at 100 miles an hour as you do with 300 miles an hour.
		So it becomes a lot more practical at 300 miles an hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Going further, you are about to do a flight, I guess, for the press in the spring this coming spring.
		Is that correct?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That is our intention, right?
		We actually cannot start construction of the lake until April because of the erosion issues in the rainy season.
		But as soon as that's complete, and we figure that's like a month, a month and a half, then we would be in a position to start test flying before the press.
		Prior to that, of course, we'll be flying privately.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you anticipate they will see?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, what are you going to show them when they get there?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, we will take off vertically.
		I'm tethered.
		I will fly over this area, hover, stop, turn, twist, move around very quickly, but not so quickly that I move off the lake, at least during that period of time when the press is around me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you'll be actually piloting the vehicle yourself?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I will, but you know, using the term piloting is a little strange in a powerlift aircraft because it is so easy to fly.
		I'm not a trained pilot.
		I've been the test pilot since the beginning of these flights, and I don't consider myself skilled at all, and yet it's so simple to fly that there's no big difference.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, what do you have in front of you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you using a joystick?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I have a joystick, and that's really everything.
		Really?
		No foot pedals.
		You have a stick.
		If you turn it, you turn in that direction.
		If you point it forward, you go forward.
		On the left-hand side, you have a throttle, which you can set at some setting that you want, that you're comfortable with.
		And then with the stick in your hand on the right-hand side, you can move it backwards to brake, forward to accelerate, left-right to turn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		This is a vertical takeoff and landing craft.
		Now, in the picture of the M400, it's not obvious to the layman how the vertical part of it takes place.
		These look like, I don't know, jet engines, sort of.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		They do, don't they?
		Yes.
		Well, the ducts, these nacelles, most of the technology in this business comes from France, so it's a little confusing.
		But the nacelles, the ducts, so to speak, rotate through a small angle of about 30 to 45 degrees, and then the exit from the ducts is deflected downwards another 45 degrees.
		And that gets the air flowing vertically.
		And then as you go forward, the ducts then go back to the horizontal direction, and then as you go even faster, then the veins pull up and they go into the horizontal direction.
		So you convert from diverting the thrust.
		Not very different from the jump jet.
		The Harrier jump jet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was going to ask if this technology was developed from the Harrier.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		No, it is a totally different path, but if there's any similar vehicles in the world out there today, you certainly would have to say, well, this one does divert the exhaust on the jet engine just like we divert it in the ducks.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		But the principles involved, the physics involved is quite different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, when you look at the motor version, the Harrier, what's the safety record of the Harrier like?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, today, it's really quite good, but at the beginning, they were losing 5% of their pilots per year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		A very dangerous vehicle.
		And even today, if you think about it, it only has one engine.
		If that engine skips a beat, you have no pilot or plane during the hover mode.
		So it's still one where they don't hover very long.
		If you notice, you don't see a jump jet hovering for more than a few seconds and it's gone because it's a very dangerous time for that vehicle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that would not be true of the Skycar because of the reduced and the multi-number of engines.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Multi-engines, multi-computers, multi-parachutes, everything that you can put into a vehicle to ensure that there's nothing that can fail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute, there's a parachute.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		We have both low and high-speed parachutes.
		These we don't want to argue that they ever would be needed, but certainly they give a sense of comfort to the individual when he perhaps is buying this for the first time.
		It may be necessary in the test flight mode where, of course, a lot of things could go wrong.
		But we do have two parachutes.
		We even have redundancy in the parachutes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They just recently, in the last few years, began putting parachutes on small airplanes, and it saved quite a few lives, I believe, already.
		So it's a pretty good idea, I guess.
		After all, if something goes wrong at 20,000 feet or so, that's going to be your only hope, I suppose.
		But you're suggesting this is going to be so safe inherently that you really don't expect that to occur.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		No, I think it's important during the test by program, but I think in terms of normal practice, it'll never be really required.
		Boeing did an extensive study of the vehicle, and to their satisfaction said, in their opinion, the vehicle is far more reliable than a 777, and that's coming from their own design.
		So I think that we have really provided a vehicle that should be as foolproof as it's possible to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, this coming year, you expect to build some Sky cars.
		What?
		It says on order here, but I don't know what that means.
		Does that mean that I could call you a doctor and order a Sky car?
		Or does that mean the military has to order and call and order one or what?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, we already have a number of orders, well, over 100 orders with deposits.
		They wouldn't be delivered until it was certified for the most part.
		We are talking to the military.
		They have a serious interest in a vehicle like this.
		We're also looking for a production partner because I'm a relatively small company.
		My company's a technology-driven company.
		And for this to be something that everybody's going to have, you're going to have to get into a relationship with General Electric General Motors.
		And we've talked to some of the major automotive companies.
		So I think eventually you'll see one of the bigger companies being involved in the volume of production.
		But for the moment, we'll produce it ourselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do they feel about you?
		How does GM, for example, feel about you?
		Do you know?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know about GM.
		Ford did invite me to their executive committee meeting, and we had a multi-day meeting, and it was very well received.
		I don't know that they're ready to give me a few million dollars to build vehicles for them, but they certainly were researching the use of such a vehicle.
		I thought it was a very good reception, and we've talked to BMW.
		We've talked to Honda.
		We've never talked to General Motors or Chrysler.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But Ford liked the idea.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, they were being very, you know, very much looking at the future.
		There were five others invited to this technology panel.
		And Burke Bhutan, for example, you've certainly heard of him around the world.
		He was one of the panelists there.
		Oh, really?
		And with some very modern ideas as well.
		So they were looking at what could happen that would change transportation.
		And if it changes, how could they be a part of it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know they'd want to be a part of it.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold tight, Doctor.
		We'll be right back.
		We're discussing the Mahler Skycar.
		You want to see what it looks like?
		CoastCoastAM.com is a place.
unidentified		The M400 is the one you want to look at.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you imagine?
		20,000 feet.
		The computers are doing the work.
		All you've got to do is lay back, look out the window, enjoy the scenery.
unidentified		Or I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Join the Mile High Club.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whatever.
unidentified		Whatever you've got in mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is Coast to Coast AM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll do it right now.
unidentified		To access the audio archives of Coast to Coast AM, log on to coasttocoastam.com.
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		What a crazy.
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		Wanna take a ride?
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		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly is.
		Jill in Easton, California, rides Hay Art.
		First heard about the Skycar when Mr. Kessler wrote about it in one of the Dirk Pitt novels.
		In fact, he did give Mr. Mahler full credit.
		He's our guest, Mr. Mahler, Dr. Paul Mahler, actually, he's invented the Skycar.
		It's now in the testing stages.
		It's the M400.
		I'm telling you right now, it's the dream machine.
		Go take a look at it on the website.
		It's a personal flight vehicle, which will be transportation for our future, and we're going to need that.
		will be right back with dr malar Once again, Dr. Paul Mahler, it certainly is a dream machine, Doctor.
		A lot of questions from the audience coming in by computer.
		For example, is a pilot's license going to be needed in the sense, you know, the same sense of pilot's license now?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, initially you'd have what's called a ground school requirement because you're up in the air with a lot of people.
		You've got to understand the rules of the air.
		Normally, a pilot's license today is a lot of skill that you have to have to fly it.
		So that's eliminated.
		The FAA actually has a pilot's license right now that you get for the sky car.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It's called a powered lift pilot's license.
		But it still would be, you know, similar to what you have to have today until the sky's organized.
		You're going to have to know a lot about what's going on out there.
		You're still going to have to be watching your back all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But once the sky was organized, as you put it, I would presume nothing perhaps more complicated or just a little more complicated than a regular driver's license.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'd say less complicated because really all you've got to do is know the number system so you know to put in the number that you want to get to.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		And again, I'm talking about, you know, a few years down the road, you'll be flying around in this much sooner than that, of course, because the highway system will not be fully developed for at least somewhere between five and ten years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, what would you think the normal altitude, I'm bouncing questions from the computer here again, the normal altitude, cruising altitude for the Skycar would be?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, that would be a choice radio, how far you're going.
		If you were going from, say, where I live, the nearest Sacramento to San Francisco, about 70 to 75 miles, you would probably go up to about 5,000 feet.
		If you're going from here to L.A., you'd go to about 20,000 feet.
		The height is very much dependent on how far you want to go because you have to climb up and come back down, and so there's some economics involved in that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, beyond about 12 or 13,000 feet, you've got to have a pressurized cabin or oxygen or something, or you're going to be a confused flyer, right?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		You certainly will.
		Yes, at least legally, you have to have either oxygen enrichment.
		There's new systems that just enrich the oxygen in the cabin itself.
		So you don't actually have to pressurize the vehicle or you pressurize the vehicle, one of the two.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What will you likely do?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're looking seriously at the enrichment because it makes the vehicle a little less complicated to design for all that pressure.
		So if that's doable, we will do it.
		If not, we will clearly go with the pressurization.
		There is home-built aircraft you can buy today that are pressurized, so it's not insurmountable by any means.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does putting a deposit on one of these right now mean that you'll get one of the first ones?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
		Depending on the size of the deposit, you can be one of the first 100, one of the first 200, or one of the first 300.
		Most of the people right now are in the 100 to 200 because that's a modest deposit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, like how much?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's $20,000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		$20,000.
		Right.
		Wow.
		That's, you know, that's dooful.
		God, this is so fascinating.
		You're looking for partners, obviously, and you would like, I assume, a big partner, but if the worst happens and you don't find a forward-looking person or company to join in with you and you have to go it alone, what's the worst-case scenario?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, what we would do then, pretty much what we did in the past, we developed a company called SuperTrap, which you mentioned earlier, where we sold many millions of dollars of product and eventually sold the company for many millions of dollars.
		And that helped us through a number of years.
		Right now, we've got an engine that is in such high demand that we have letters of intent for almost a billion dollars in those engines.
		So we've got a couple partners right now just starting production of the engines.
		And if nothing else, the engines will fund the Skycar.
		And after all, we need the engine for the Skycar in any case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, noise is something of an issue right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you imagine that the Skycar would, for example, then land on somebody's flat roof.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I think you're going to see a lot of flat roofs in the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of flat roofs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I guess then the person or persons who are in the Skycar, because the computer is virtually going to be doing everything, could sit and watch, I don't know, a movie.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		You could play computer games on the screen because, of course, there's flying screens that give you a lot of information about navigation, where you are and your trip and things like that.
		You can switch it over and make it into anything you want.
		You can sleep.
		You can read.
		You would be able to be much more productive while you traveled.
		And, of course, you'd be traveling much less.
		Today, in America, we waste about 15 billion hours per year.
		Stuck in traffic are going slowly.
		And that mounts into hundreds of billions of dollars.
		And, of course, we also kill over 40,000 people primarily for human air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You really, Dr. Bleed, the future of transportation at the personal level in America, in our lifetimes, could be air rather than ground?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure of it.
		I'm not saying I'm sure of it because we're going to do it necessarily.
		We're going to be a contributor to that, and maybe we'll give other companies a jump start in the research we've done after all we've spent in today's dollars over a couple hundred million dollars.
		It's not an inexpensive technology, but it's coming inevitably because every system in America has always been replaced by another system.
		First, we had canals, which then got replaced by railways.
		Railways got replaced by automobiles, and today, in the last 10 years, highways have only increased by 2%, and the miles traveled has increased by 30%.
		So you can imagine what's going to happen in the next 10 years.
		I mean, you can see the traffic today coming to a stop.
		In your wildest imagination, I don't think people can understand what's going to happen the next 10 years on the highway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, the audience is also reacting to the news of the day.
		That's what audiences always do.
		And there is a lot of news about car bombs and truck bombs, and people are saying, boy, what a nightmare as far as terrorism is concerned.
		Now you've got bombs delivered from the air.
		Has that occurred to you in recent years?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's two sides of that coin.
		You know, one of the problems we have today is we don't really know a lot about who's out there and who's in these cars and where they're going.
		But when you're in this organized world in the sky, you're going to know who every individual in every car is and where every car is going.
		So it'll be a totally different world in terms of being, everybody who's going to be traveling is going to be identified.
		And that's a great improvement.
		So, you know, there's certainly you can misuse anything, but it'll be a major change From the way we deal with traffic today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Such a system, it seems to me, would have application, for example, in law enforcement.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's going to make the getaway car tougher, isn't it?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Well, of course, the crooks are going to have it too.
		So the issue is how does he get up there when he's going into a world where the control of that vehicle, for the most part, is from a central control network.
		He really is at the mercy of the controller.
		So I think you'll have the traffic cop in the sky get a hold of him pretty quickly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you really spent that hundreds of millions?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I've spent it over a period, of course, of a long time.
		So that's in today's dollars.
		We've actually spent about $75 million.
		But remember, we started spending back in the 60s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Still.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		So if you had to replace what we've done, it's probably somewhere between $2 million and $300 million.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's still a lot of money.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It's a lot of money, but the auto industry spends a billion dollars just changing the models over.
		So in terms of real dollars, you've seen some of these major players in the dot-com era go through $20 billion and see it go right down the drain.
		It's a small amount of money in terms of what it could do for transportation and the world today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you foresee in your immediate financial future, I mean, so far, Doctor, this is a big gamble.
		A lot of money put into our money.
		I think it's a big gamble.
		I mean, do you see it coming back?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see it coming back.
		Money has not been my major motivating factor in here, but actually, since I have a number of stockholders on their behalf, it is a big factor.
		I would like nothing more than reward them in very serious terms for their support over these many years.
		And then, of course, more recently, as a public company, it's now possible for almost anybody to become a stockholder in our company.
		That's a big change.
		And obviously, it'd be very nice to see these kind of people become the beneficiaries of the technology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		Do you imagine yourself to be thought of in the sense of the Wright brothers when it comes to the issue of personal flying vehicles?
		I mean, you probably are there, really, aren't you?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wouldn't put myself there yet.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I would think that if we're successful in the next year, and I'm very optimistic we will, we certainly will introduce, and that's what we won't provide at this point, but we will introduce a new type of technology that when people realize can be done, that we may have another bubble, technological bubble, and at least this time it'll have some real material behind it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some substance, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, so you really think that by spring, I'll be watching Dan Rather or CNN or whatever newscast, and I'm going to see a skycar hovering above a lake?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		I mean, actually, we've seen him in Peter Jennings already.
		He showed one of our earlier flights.
		So we've been on the national television and even on CNN a couple times.
		We've had pretty dramatic coverage of some of the previous flights.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I guess I'd love to be involved in what you're doing.
		Are you having fun?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, I'm having fun.
		Other than the fact I spend so much of my time raising the capital to make this whole thing happen, because I'm a technologist.
		I love nothing better than either designing or actually doing something with my hands.
		And I end up so much involved in the financial world of necessity because this is not something that you can do like I started out in my garage as not really a hobby, but certainly something relatively inexpensive.
		Today I have to have really superb people working with me, great people of electronics, software, and hardware to make this happen.
		I can't do it on my own any longer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With an operational Skycar in controlled airspace, would it be, do you envision it being possible for the person in the driver's seat to disengage the computers, or would that not be allowed?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		No, it would be totally out of the possibility.
		You could select to operate out of side the highway system, just as you can take an off-road vehicle and have a lot of fun.
		But of course, you would still have on board that system a lot of warning devices and preventive devices so that you can't get near the virtual highway.
		But when you're on that virtual highway in the sky, you are no longer having anything to do with that vehicle.
		If there's an emergency, the emergency will be handled remotely or with on-board computerized systems.
		And I guess the worst case, the parachutes will be deployed automatically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you and I both know how Americans are with their vehicles, whether it's one that goes in the sky or on the road.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They like to go have fun.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you're telling me it would be possible to essentially go off-lane or off-road, you could think of it like as off-road, and get into uncontrolled airspace and just go have fun?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Do aerobatics anything you like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of aerobatics would it be capable of?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, the vehicle is stressed of plus or minus 9 Gs, which would pretty much make most people black out.
		But in this case, since you could program your aerobatics, you could black out and still come back alive.
		It could be quite a different world in terms of making this the perfect aerobatic airplane without you having to do it.
		At the same time, of course, you have the freedom to control it as well if you liked.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about running out of gas, or in this case, alcohol?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lots of warnings there?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Lots of warnings, yes.
		We've got warnings that measure the quality and the quantity.
		We have redundant fuel tanks, meaning that the fuel doesn't come from one tank.
		The engines are fed by different tanks so that if you ran out of fuel on one engine, you wouldn't run out on the other seven.
		Everything that you can do to prevent the possibility of losing more than one engine at any one point in the flight is the design criteria we've used.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How reliable are the engines themselves in testing?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, the rotary engine, and this is the hard thing for people to believe.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you used an RX7, and remember that engine was really developed in the 70s, so it was a baby relative to the technology that's already out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		And yet, it still, after they solved the initial seal problems, was a very reliable engine.
		In fact, it won the Le Mans, 24-hour Le Mans.
		It can literally run for 25,000 hours without being overhauled because of the fact that there are no frictional parts, so to speak.
		We use roller bearings, ball bearings, the kinds of things that generate very low friction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that the seal problems that the early Wonkle had were the reason was that the reason that it didn't take off in commercial development as it should have?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was that, and it was also not very good modage.
		The sports car, you may not have noticed that because you maybe weren't paying attention to it, but it did get about 25% less modage, which was significant to a lot of people, particularly in the 70s when it was introduced.
		Of course, it was a very bad timing.
		In the middle of the 70s, coming out with an engine that was getting 25% poor modage was a really downside because people were standing in line to get gasoline.
		That's different today.
		We don't pay as much attention to gasoline, and then also the moddage has very much increased.
		So I think the RX-8 is going to be a real big winner, and I think it's great coming along right at this time to provide credibility for the engine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because I'm sure commercial development of that engine has got to be a good thing for use one way or the other, right?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		I mean, anything that says to the world, hey, somebody else believes in this engine, Mazda Speda, I think it's about $2 billion so far on the rotary engine.
		And you know that, you know, Japanese are pretty good at what they do technologically when they produce products as far as reliability.
		That kind of experience and that kind of introduction at this time couldn't be better for us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't really want to know specifically about your competition, but traditionally in the old days, NASA-led aeronautic research.
		We do have companies like, you know, Boeing and so on and so on.
		But they're designing large commercial airliners.
		What's going on in America with aeronautical research?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Pretty much nothing.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It's an extremely sad affair.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		There is no budget.
		The budget itself, at one time, of course, NASA was called NACA and it was an aeronautical establishment helping us build better and better airplanes.
		Today, everything is in outer space.
		We're going to Mars.
		Now, I'm not against going to Mars, but I think we're paying a major price in transportation opportunities by spending our budget that way.
		$14 billion a year into space, virtually zero.
		So little, in fact, that NASA can no longer run the wind tunnels, and they gave away some of their biggest wind tunnels to universities.
		It's an extremely sad comment.
		I introduced an aeronautical program at the University of California, Davis.
		I had a huge number of students in that course until 1970.
		And when they landed on the moon, all of a sudden there wasn't a penny being spent any longer in anything related to aeronautics.
		It got everybody so excited they all went into aerospace.
		And I had to change the program to mechanical and aeronautical so people could get jobs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just don't get it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Shouldn't the application be obvious that, you know, in 2003, shouldn't it just be so obvious?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, for the first time when NASA went into space, they ended up hiring a bunch of lobbyists.
		And the lobbyists worked Washington as well as they always do.
		And all of the money went where the lobbyist got the congressman to go.
		And that was out of space.
		So we don't have a lobby for aeronautics.
		I testified before Congress last year in an effort, along with a number of other people, the head of NASA, in fact, and a couple other people who are into the new systems of aeronautics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were in front of Congress.
		Where did you tell them?
		And what did you tell them?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I was attempting, along with everybody else, to get them to provide money.
		I wasn't asking for money for myself.
		I was asking for money for NASA, NASA Langley, in particular.
		And I was just simply saying that they needed to pay more attention to aeronautics because that's the transportation system, at least a good deal of the transportation system of the future.
		But most of them weren't listening.
		So we decided as a group that when they could no longer drive on the highway, which we figure is within the next 10 years, that they might start paying attention to us again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They weren't listening.
		I mean, they obviously, when you were testifying, weren't interested.
		I mean, could you really tell?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's amazing.
		There was seven of us, and as I said, including the head of NASA, Dr. Daniel Golden there.
		We each were allowed, we traveled from all over the country.
		We were each allowed five minutes to present our case.
		But Congressman the South would stand out and talk just for the sake of getting on the record for half to three quarters of an hour.
		And of course, God knows what they're talking about.
		It had very little to do with aeronautics because, after all, they were not experts in the area.
		It was a great insight into how some of the government works, certainly not all of it.
		And so we decided that we'd present our case and let history revisit it in the next few years as traffic comes to a standstill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Doctor of Holdan, traffic comes to a standstill.
		Imagine 300, 350 miles an hour through the air instead of bumper to bumper on your way to work every morning.
		From the height of it in the middle of the night.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		take a ride well?
		Call our bell from west to the Rockies at 1-800-6188255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-8255033.
		First time callers may be chart at 17757271222.
		The wider card line is open at 17757271295.
		And to recharge on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operators and have them dial 8008930903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with ourselves on the Premier Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what a ride it will be.
		Now, this is not a dream.
		It's not just a vision.
		It's the real McCoy.
		And if you want to see it, there's a picture of it on the website, CoastCoSam.com.
		Just click on our guest link right there, and there will be the M400 Skycar.
		It's Real McCoy, folks, and it's really just around the corner.
		The End I say, why wait for the government to chase UFOs?
		Chase them yourself in the skycar.
		Dr. Mahler, once again.
		Doctor, interesting question from the audience.
		How do you plan to deal with things that could be hazardous to flight as they are now for flight, like thunderstorms, for example?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, the vehicle itself is relatively stable, comparable to the, you have transport today, the large planes, but you still wouldn't want to fly through a thunderstorm.
		You're going to have to fly around that.
		There's not any, I mean, even commercial airliners today, as safe as they are, don't dare venture through a thunderstorm.
		But you certainly have on board all of the information.
		Remember, you've got the central control.
		We have the kind of weather reporting accuracy that you would expect in the coming years with increasing computer capability.
		So we'll know where everything is, and it'll be programmed around that.
		The beauty of a virtual highway is the virtual highway can change.
		It's not in concrete sitting on the ground and there's no options.
		If you've got a thunderstorm, the virtual highway goes around the thunderstorm and everybody follows in line, computerized around that same storm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't worry, folks.
		We're going to let you speak with Dr. Mahler in the next hour and ask questions yourself.
		You're listed on the Stock Exchange now.
		So in other words, people can become stockholders, right?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's a big change since you and I last talked.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is a big change.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It was always a problem because we got so many people inquiring.
		You know, we really didn't necessarily want to become a public company, but we had literally thousands of thousands of people wanting to participate.
		And, of course, the rules really prevent the average person from buying or participating in a company like ours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's something about risk.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't there like you've got to have a million dollars or be at least a millionaire to venture into something like this?
unidentified		Right.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It makes it very difficult to raise money because, you know, you've got to convince people who've already got so much money they don't need anymore to go and take a risky inventure when they can go and invest it in bonds that get their 5% or 10% perhaps.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, sure.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		So it's the average person out there who's the guy that supports us and we need supporting us and become part of this because they can come in and they can invest a small amount of money in a technology that could make them a great deal of money.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		And that was an opportunity that we provided partly because of the great pressure we had to do so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there was a day that maybe a broker told me this or something, that you could have invested $500 in Sony, and of course, you and all your relatives, for as long as you can see down the timeline, would be rich and comfortable.
		So maybe the Skycar is something like that.
		Who knows?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you can say that.
		I can't.
		I'm not a listener.
		I'm not sure if you're a good comment in favor of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You own the company, I guess, huh?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's just the nature of stock investing.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I cannot promote my company really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, then I did it for you.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fine.
		I think it's cool, and I think it's worth investing in from my point of view personally.
		I mean, just because it ought to be happening.
		In a way, it almost should have happened already.
		Why haven't we done this yet?
		And that's really a good question.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it's a matter.
		It's never been a matter of technology, but it is true that we know that we have to have the government's support in something like this.
		I can't go.
		It's not like going and building a new type of muffler, which we did with the Supertrap that was very successful, or building new engines.
		When you build an aircraft, you have a great number of layers of government involved in the approval process for good reason, but it's a slow process.
		And so, you know, we're working through that.
		And fortunately, as I said earlier, there's some major changes in the efforts to organize the existing airspace.
		And those same efforts are going to help us enormously as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think that such a vehicle would have all kinds of application, for example, OG for fire departments and police departments that would rescue people.
		After all, they're VTOL aircraft.
		So various versions of this would have all kinds of emergency application, wouldn't they?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, and I think one of the best ones that we can provide, one that has been demanding for for 25 years, is how to get the people out of burning buildings.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Because you can't go near a burning building except from above if it's a helicopter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		But with us, we can nose right up to that building.
		We've got a model all laid out on the, we don't have it on the internet, but we have it in a form that people can see it, where this vehicle just noses up to a building and people offload onto it and they're brought down to the ground Four or five at a time, probably every minute.
		So we think it would be a great device for rescuing people from situations that they've always wanted to have something to happen, but it hasn't been available.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the reason I wonder why this has not happened yet is in every good science fiction movie you see, it depicts exactly what you're talking about.
		An organized sky, computers in control, just get into the aircraft, punch her up, and away you go.
		I mean, that's in movie after movie after movie.
		It's not like it's nothing man has dreamed of.
		It's just that man isn't, except for you, working on it very hard.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		No, it's a tough problem.
		And actually, interesting enough, the government did spend a lot of money on vertical takeoff in the 50s and the 60s.
		They spent a great deal of capital on the part of NASA and other organizations.
		And they did lose a few pilots, as you always do in any new program like that, which was worrisome to the aircraft companies because their test pilots are the most important people.
		But most of these vehicles were single engines, single rotors, or single something or other.
		When that failed, that was the end of the vehicle and the aircraft.
		And then when 1970 came along and aerospace became the dominant thing, then there was no additional effort spent in it.
		And right now in today's world, it's just something waiting to catch fire, and it's going to happen.
		We know it's going to happen.
		We know it's very close at hand.
		It takes the money, and the money is there.
		It just needs to be directed in this direction.
		And I don't mean directly towards us.
		I mean towards this technology in general.
		We'll see a tremendous change in the way we get around in the next 10 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what I was going to ask.
		Realistically, if things go well for you and the whole concept, how many years might it be before, gee, what should I ask?
		The first ones are used in some regular way versus the public having access to them.
		In other words, I'm trying to get a concept of timelines here.
		When the first ones, I mean, you'll be testing in the spring and we'll see it on TV and then there'll be a period and then there'll be some models made and so.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, it depends.
		You know, you ask the question why it's taken so long.
		The point really is if we can't get other people to join in this, people who have the kind of money that they've been wasting on a lot of other things that they probably could have done better with, and we have to do it ourselves as a bootstrap operation and generate our own capital as we've always done for the most part, then it's going to take longer, of course.
		But I don't believe that's what's going to happen.
		I believe that once we demonstrate this vehicle and once people realize that there is highways in the sky coming, then all of a sudden you're going to see a huge bunch of competitors.
		Now, right now, I'm lucky.
		I don't have any competitors in one hand.
		I can get all kinds of patents and there's nobody out there competing with me.
		But that's going to change, of course.
		once you get there's a lot of smart people in America, there's a lot of good companies, and once the competition starts, but that's okay.
		The money is Going to flow in a lot of directions, and I'm sure it's going to flow in ours as much as anybody else's pockets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you say we'll no longer be able to travel effectively on the roads that we have now, and maybe in, what, another 10 years?
		That seems not.
		I don't know.
		I just don't understand how everything's going to ground to a halt that quickly.
		Explain it.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is right now.
		I'll speak for a local area, but it's not different from L.A. or Washington.
		You're talking around cities mostly, but of course, people live in cities or near cities for the most part, so they've got to get out of that area.
		Today, 10 years ago, I could travel from Sacramento to San Francisco in an hour or so.
		Right now, I could do the same trip, and it might on one day take three hours.
		If there's even a flat tire, the traffic comes to virtually a standstill for 10 miles.
		We're at what's called saturation, and it only takes a perturbation, a small incident, to change it from a moving traffic system to a standstill.
		And that situation, even the last two years, I've seen the traffic increase to the point that near Davis, which is precisely where I live, coming to a standstill very often.
		So I have a very clear picture of what's going to happen, and I don't think it's going to be 10 years.
		I think it's going to be more like three to four years in areas like this.
		Other areas will survive, of course, a lot longer without problems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What contacts have you had with the military, Doctor?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, the military has shown a great deal of interest in what we're doing, but they're also, of course, concerned as they always are with providing funds for a small company that, in their mind, may or may not survive.
		And that's why it's important for us to find a military partner, because we've done millions of dollars of contracts for the government, but usually, you know, usually because we're connected with another company that knows somebody within DARPA that can get the money.
		On the merits of it, it's still unlikely that we would get a contract because we're just too small to assure the contract provider that he's going to keep his four stars if something goes wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the military, more than the civilian market, would be likely, I would think, to take the monetary plunge because of the obvious application.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I think so, too.
		And I think it's almost necessary that the military be the starting point.
		You know, we did this with the 707.
		The 707, Boeing 707 came about as a result of the KC-135, the tanker.
		And then it became the jet airplane that people started flying.
		And, of course, the helicopter became the helicopter after Korea, where we rescued so many people over there.
		Technologies like this really need the support of the military.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if I had four stars and I wanted to invite you in and say, all right, Doctor, I'm all ears.
		Show me the military applications for this vehicle.
		What would you show me?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, you know, it's interesting because they've come to us and shown us the applications.
		They've put the Sky Corps on war games.
		And every time the Sky Car was in the side, on one side, that side always won.
		And they've spent literally millions of dollars in war games with the Sky Car.
		They, however, then want to go out and get a, they issued a contract to try and get vehicles like this.
		And of course, they issued the contract for vehicles like this to companies like Boeing.
		And that's been quite a long time ago, and they haven't received anything since then.
		So it's the same issue.
		They want the vehicle very badly based on what we've been able to show them it's capable of, but they're reluctant to invest their money in a relatively small company.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if the military has already shown interest in something the size of Boeing, then why isn't Boeing, or are they, developing?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're talking to all of the major companies in aeronautics today.
		Actually, three of them are actually foreign, which is sort of sad because that was not the case many years ago.
		There's only one aeronautical company that America has today that's civilian, and that's Boeing.
		It builds military as well.
		And Boeing, in my opinion, will probably not be building planes 10 years from now because Aerobus is taking the market away from them.
		So it's, again, when you have a country where you're not putting money into aeronautics as we used to, then that country's lead in aeronautics, which was supreme for many, many years, is going to disappear.
		And you're going to have places like France and England with their Aerobus connection building airplanes that the world is buying rather than Boeing aircraft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Doctor, then could you conceivably end up, instead of manufacturing the Skycar itself, end up, for example, making your money by licensing to, I don't know, Mitsubishi or something?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, it won't be Mitsubishi because it could be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Never ruled them out.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I think it's probably a company like Embraer in Brazil or Bombardier in Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Or perhaps Aerobus in England, or I'm sorry, in France.
		Although Aerobus, I believe, owns a good piece of Embraer.
		So actually, in a sense, it could be something like that.
		It could be General Electric.
		There's a company that's promising to really look at new technologies with the change of leadership recently.
		But I don't think you're going to see it being a Boeing, and I don't think you're going to see it an automotive company.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many people are presently involved with you on working on this project?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, directly about 20 employees, but then I have consultants from all over the United States, people who worked in the past on rotary engines, for example, experts who no longer, they've retired for the most part.
		They love the rotary engine.
		They were fascinated with it during the time they worked on it.
		And they work for me, for the most part, free.
		I'm willing to pay them, but they will answer any questions.
		They never charge me a penny because they just love the engine that much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it got almost a cult following, didn't it?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It does.
		It has a tremendous following.
		If you get introduced to it, you fall In love with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's very true.
		I really did fall in love with it.
		I thought it was just absolutely wonderful, and I had it for years.
		Anyway, so it's going to happen.
		I mean, this is not just a pipe dream.
		One way or the other, some level of it is definitely going to happen for you, right?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, we, our company, has spent over a million man hours on the technology to date.
		And we have, of course, the comfort of having a number of fairly powerful patents.
		We have a comfort in protecting ourselves.
		And you're right, we're probably going to end up licensing the technology to another company because it's too big a task for me to undertake.
		You know, it takes years to generate a major manufacturing operation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there are no large competitors for you out there with a vehicle at a similar stage of development and success.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that correct?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It's odd in a way, but again, if nobody's looking in that area, then I'm free to roam about it myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's true.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Not like, you know, I'm the greatest genius that ever lived.
		I just took on this technology 40 years ago, and I've devoted my life to it with a lot of other bright people.
		I got ahead at start, and everybody's left me alone, which is both good and bad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, you must be curious about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's such an obvious idea, and it's so obviously the future that you just would think there would be competition.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, a lot of people, and even people like Bert Rutan, who's certainly a very bright person in the aeronautical field, doesn't believe that it's practical.
		Now, on the other hand, Bert is not an expert in vertical takeoff.
		In all fairness to him, he's an expert in airplanes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he thinks it's not practical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Just because, I guess because it's never happened, despite all the promises.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		The front page of all these magazines over the years, people tend to get jaded and they say, gee, you know, if it really could happen, it would have happened.
		I think that's a big factor in it.
		But that's okay.
		I mean, you know, again, it's beneficiary.
		I'm the beneficiary of that.
		I get the opportunity to generate patents without competition, at least for a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think when you test fly in the spring and, you know, it's all over everywhere once again, but this time it's really attractive.
		It's really looking like what we see, and it's really flying.
		I mean, what's that going to do?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think there's a point reached.
		like they call it the tipping point I don't know if you if you this been in
		And I think that tipping point is going to come next year because I think with the credibility that we're going to be able to establish, the highways in the sky coming about, and the general interest of a number of things that are coming, we have a number of television programs that are coming out that are pretty detailed on our technology.
		And I guess we're going to be on the cover of Esquire Magazine in December.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, congratulations.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		And that may be confidential.
		Thank you.
		It certainly should help them sell magazines.
		But we've got some great coverage.
		We've also got a major programming coming out on Tech TV and also on Discovery Channel.
		So with that, perhaps it'll get the attention that we need.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps so.
		All right, coming in the next hour, people obviously have a lot of excitement and interest and questions about the Skycar.
		So if it's okay with you, I'll throw the lines open.
		We'll see what they have.
		Is that okay?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's just great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
		Because it is fascinating.
		Oh, gosh, is it fascinating?
		Thing is, folks, it's really happening.
		And again, if you want to see the Bottle M400, go to coasttocoastam.com.
		Click right there on my guest's website.
		You'll be looking right at the vehicle itself.
		The Skycar.
		If you've got questions, we've got Dr. Paul Muller, and we'll be right back.
unidentified		Thank you.
		How about a free seat?
		He's got the team five five.
		And one night's done.
		And then settle down quite a little down and forget about everything you know we love.
		He's never gonna stop moving Cause he's rolling He's the rolling stone When you wake up, it's a new morning The sun is shining It's a new morning You're going home You're going home You're going
		home Call Martell in the Kingdom of Nye from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Ark Bell from the Kingdom of Nigh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is indeed in the nighttime.
		Paul Mahler, Dr. Mahler, is my guest.
		He's the guy behind the Skycar.
		You've probably seen it by now, the M400, haven't you?
		Come fly away with me.
		It's really the American dream.
		I know many of you dream of a machine like this.
		Your chance to ask questions is coming right up.
		Indeed, I am allowed to say this for Dr. Mahler, so I will.
		You can buy stock from your local broker under the symbol MLER.
		That's MLER.
		Listed temporarily on pink sheets, but as a fully reporting company, except to be listed on the NASDAQ BB before year's end.
		So they're already accepted to be listed on the NASDAQ bulletin board.
		How about that?
		So you can actually get behind this, and I thought I'd toss that in for Dr. Mueller, who's about to answer questions.
		Doctor, are you there?
unidentified		I certainly am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you ready to face the American public?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, then, here they come.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Mueller.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do the wild thing at 775-727-1295.
unidentified		Salt Spring Island, Beautiful Supernatural of British Columbia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ty, I want to slow you up a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We don't allow you to give your last name, so we have to bleed.
unidentified		Sorry about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So your name is Ty, and you're calling from B.C. That's correct.
unidentified		All right.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Baltimore Base, that's where I was born, was British Columbia.
unidentified		Really?
		Oh, fantastic.
		I spoke to you back in 95 about an idea, and you actually went ahead with it, and that was fantastic while I was working at a country club in central Missouri, solar car racing with Stanford, Berkeley, and the University of Waterloo.
		I just happened to pick up an Equinox magazine off the shelf from May, June, 89.
		That's a magazine of Canadian Discovery, kind of Canada's National Geographic.
		And I just happened to notice under the Nexus section, up, up and away, an article with the 300 model.
		And I just thought I'd briefly mention some of the things here.
		It says here, Canadian Paul Mahler first studied hovercraft technology when at the age of five he watched hummingbirds in flight.
		He was obviously impressed for today with a doctorate from Montreal's McGill University and 15 years teaching experience aeronautical engineering at University of California Davis.
		He has created a hummingbird for humans.
		Working with a staff of 25 specialists, Mahler has invented the Mahler 300 Aerobot, a 19-foot, 6-meter, 3-passenger, 1-ton, 900-kilogram vertical takeoff landing VTOL vehicle that he believes could be the solution for the world's congested roadways.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right.
		Do you actually have a question for him?
unidentified		Yeah, I just wondered if he has been able to get some sort of confirmations from Bombardier and any other Canadian manufacturers, perhaps even working at the old Downsview site where the famous 50s AvroCar.
unidentified		Yeah, AvroCar was built for the U.S. Air Force.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's got confirmation from Canadian companies on something?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've been talking in a very oblique way with Bombardier, and people are going to come to the test flight when we fly it in the spring.
		Whenever we fly it, they'll be there.
		We've got a standing invitation, and they've agreed that they would like to be present.
		I respect Bombardier.
		They're an excellent company.
		In fact, I worked for Canada for two years, which is owned by Bombardier.
		So we go back historically quite a long time.
		So it is very possible that Bombardier would be an excellent candidate, but they haven't shown extraordinary interest, and they certainly are, for the moment, not an investor in our company.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		First time call online.
		You're on the air with Dr. Mueller.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you're on the air, sir.
unidentified		Oh, hi, Dr. Mueller.
unidentified		This is Phil over in Woodland, not too far from you.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's pretty close by.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I have a question.
		I'm actually a student pilot right now.
		I'm almost finished with my certification.
		And they always drill into you that one of the most important things, at least for a VFR pilot, is to stay out of clouds, you know, not to go into instrument conditions.
		And I guess that's one of the biggest killers of pilots.
		And I was just wondering what kind of like, obviously you must have an autopilot system in the craft.
		And I'm just wondering if people would have to be trained to fly on instruments, like if they were to be in the clouds or whatever, and how they would, basically how they would navigate without any of the type of, you know, the Scotland car is really the ultimate autopilot because it really takes over completely.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		And I'm giving you a vision, you know, down the road a few years because at the beginning even it has on board all electronics to keep it one place in space actively or move about as commanded.
		So really what you do as a pilot, you tell it where you want it to go and it'll take you there.
		There is no real need to have skill.
		You could fly through clouds, of course, but you're not going to fly through thunderstorms or large black clouds if you can avoid it for sure.
		Nobody goes in there.
		But certainly for anything else, you don't have to have visual rules because the vehicle itself will do the flying for you if you give it over to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		to be viable on a commercial scale, the Skycar absolutely, totally is going to be dependent on the controlled Skyways.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that has much of...
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		In the sense that this vehicle becomes a competitor for the automobile.
		And I don't mean by that it replaces necessarily, but it makes the automobile very efficient for the 50-mile distance and makes this the alternative for something over 50 miles.
		For that to be significant in people's lives, this has to be completely integrated into an aerospace network.
		And I think that's really one of the things when you ask the question, you know, people say it can't be done.
		They have that vision if you put a bunch of these things in the air.
		And I would agree that's an impossible situation.
		So the organized airspace is an absolutely essential element, just like the rotary engine that we developed is an essential element for that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are we with respect to development of that kind of system?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Just this year, the FA certified WAS.
		That's for a wide area augmentation system, and that's the geostationary satellites that recalibrates GPS.
		GPS is a series of satellites that orbits the Earth That are used as you know in your car navigation system.
		There's a Russian set that's already up there, and the Galileo system is going in place from Europe.
		So you're going to have three systems.
		You're going to have the redundancy you need.
		You'll be able to use any one of those satellites at any time to know where you are and to be and have everybody else know where you are, which is also very critical, of course.
		And then, of course, as I said earlier, Honeywell was just given a contract for LAS, which is the one that will get you down to inches of accuracy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's what you need.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I don't know that we need inches, but it's always nice to be accurate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on there with Dr. Mueller.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		I haven't spoken with you since you retired, and I'm glad you're back on the air, and I turned my radio down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right for you.
unidentified		Good.
		Okay.
		Hi, Dr. Mueller.
		I spoke with you.
		I'm Joe from WRKO Boston.
		I spoke with you 10 years ago.
		You made three statements to me then.
		And let's see if you still make them.
		You say, I am a blind person.
		You says, blind people will be able to fly this car.
		My first question.
		There are two other quickies.
		Art, if I may, please.
		What if somebody wants to crash the car and goes off and crashes it?
		Will the car know and stop it?
		And I have your video, Dr. Mueller, and I would like to be the pilot, the first blind person to ever try it because I've been fascinated.
		And one for you, Art.
		Will you make your After Dark on tape?
		Because we can't read it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, that's four, actually.
		I think they're working on that.
		So he is a blind person.
		Will a blind person be able to do it?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I mean, the blind person is as capable of flying this as anybody else because, after all, you're just coding in your destination.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How about if you wanted to intentionally crash the vehicle?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can't.
		As I said earlier, you don't have any control of the vehicle as long as it's programmed to operate within the controlled airspace.
		So I don't think the blind person is going to choose to go off the airspace network because that's where he's got this great advantage.
		So I think you can be absolutely certain that people will not be able to move because if they can move in any discretionary manner, they're going to run into you.
		And that's very critical that each person be absolutely controlled by some central control network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he volunteered to be a pilot for his father.
		Well, instead, I would like to ask you, who's likely going to be the first pilot?
		Probably not Joe, I imagine.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I'm probably the first pilot in the sense that I'm willing to fly, and I'm allowed to fly it over the lake at probably not greater than 50 feet.
		Beyond that, I've already, my stockholders have already told me that it's a no-no.
		So I guess that's my limit, and then we will find, at that point, we'll probably get ourself a very qualified test pilot.
		And we have a number of offers, by the way, including even astronauts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't blame you for wanting to be up there, but I also understand the attitude of your stockholders.
		It's like my wife.
		I'd like to go hang gliding, and she's like a stockholder.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Mueller.
		Hi.
unidentified		Good morning, Mr. Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Okay.
		I've got a question.
		Have you ever thought about getting that in full swing?
		About, let's see, putting up a 24-hour Skycar servicing?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, are you talking about a service organization for Skycars?
unidentified		Yes.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, of course, that's inherent that that'll have to come about at some point in time because anything that's out there has to, and particularly aircraft, as you know, they'll always have to be maintained in a much more rigorous way than we maintain our cars today.
unidentified		Somewhere up the road there.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		So you're going to see a world where you have, as we do right now, have preventive maintenance where the vehicle itself will shut off and not operate, will not be able to take off if any of the required maintenance items has not been taken care of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		all part of the of the need to provide the reliability and safety that people are going to demand in the future as a matter of interest doctor how much maintenance is going back What about Skycar maintenance-wise?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is an extremely long-life engine, historically, so we feel comfortable with that.
		We have extremely small amount of mechanical components because we've taken and replaced most of those with electronic hardware and software.
		And because it's redundant, you just pull out a module and replace it.
		The idea being that if one fails, the other one takes over.
		If that fails, another one takes over.
		And of course, as soon as you have your first failure, you're ready to have it replaced with a new module.
		So it's going to be a very low-maintenance vehicle in principle.
		In practice, we'll have to see if that comes about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed so.
		All right.
		West of the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Dr. Mueller.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		Hi, Dr. Mueller.
		Two quick questions.
		First, you mentioned something about deploying parachutes on the Skycar if there was an emergency.
		And also, what do you think about UFOs?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, I don't know where you've got that second one.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you ask the question, all I can say is over the years, naturally, a lot of people have come to me with reports of UFOs because they think I would be an objective listener.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		And actually, some very sound people have come and talked to me about it and have told me stories that are really quite impressive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		So I've got to say, over 50% of Americans believe that UFOs exist.
		It's hard to imagine that statistic is there, but it's true.
		And the evidence that I saw from this was pretty impressive.
		Now, where that leads, I don't know.
		I'm working in a much more mundane world, I can tell you.
		I would certainly like to have some kind of space system, propulsion system as they might have employing perhaps anti-gravity and fusion.
		But I can just say that the people who came to me have been extremely credible.
		In fact, the one individual who was a deputy sheriff told me a story that he didn't even tell his wife because he was so afraid of the consequences of doing so.
		So it's interesting.
		I would certainly not discount the possibility that there's something out there we don't understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gi caller, thank you for asking that one.
		Wow.
		Good response.
		And what was your other question?
unidentified		About deploying parachutes as a safety factor in the Skycar.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, are you concerned about the idea or was there something?
unidentified		Well, if it say it failed at a thousand feet, would the parachutes deploy?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that wouldn't be a problem.
		The interesting thing with parachutes is if you're going forward, even at 25 miles an hour and you pop a parachute, you've got a fairly good chance of recovering.
		The worst situation is sitting there hovering.
		And actually with a parachute, you probably can't recover under, perhaps with the self-deploying parachutes ballistically, maybe under 150 feet.
		It would be very difficult.
		So you don't really want to sit around there hovering between ground level and 150 feet.
		But remember, we have a system that can tolerate an engine failure or a computer failure or any other failure that you can imagine.
		And that's the critical thing.
		You just don't want to spend a lot of time because you have to get out of that once you have a failure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay?
unidentified		Great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Mahler.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, I have a question.
		If this is going to be controlled by some kind of central air system, are the movements going to be trapped by the system?
		And are you concerned with any sort of privacy at all?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not concerned with privacy.
		I think in this particular case, you have to give up this kind of privacy, at least for the convenience.
		I don't see any way that you can't be identified and be a part of this system.
		You just have to, they have to know who you are.
		They have to know where you're going.
		And clearly, with this issue of terrorism, I think it's a really great step forward to know who's up in that plane and what that flane is and where it's going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this big brotherism is coming with almost every technological advance, not just the Skycar, but everywhere else, too.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think it's inevitable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's our future.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		At least to that extent.
		I mean, it's better than knowing about your medical records, which I could dispute heartily.
		But in this situation here, where you're talking about people's ability to get around conveniently, if that's what I have to give up to do that, I'd be happy to do it myself personally.
unidentified		And also, I heard you say it was going to be safe for a blind person to drive.
unidentified		Would it also be safe for somebody who's been out drinking or out partying?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, actually, that's a good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You walk, you stumble out of the bar, into your sky car, and then what?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, what happens is you code the wrong number and you end up in Alaska rather than San Francisco.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's your problem, but you're not going to hurt anybody on the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if all the sky is planned and speeds and routes are controlled, then what are our police going to do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, just how are they going to give out tickets, for example?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		I think you're still talking about a large component of freedom here.
		As long as people are staying away from the highway system, you've got these so-called recreational parks or whatever you want to call it, so I'm sure the police will have their fun getting out there and beating with people doing what they shouldn't do in that environment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because it's got to be a blast chasing a skycar.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Mueller.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		This is Nick from Oak Harbor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey there.
unidentified		And I have a couple of points I'd like to make with him.
		First of all, I wanted to ask what he's going to use for his propulsion, not the engines, but to move that much airflow.
		Is it propellers or is it a squirrel cage type of turbine blower or what?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the first question is we use axial fans, carbon fiber axial fans.
		They are the most efficient way of moving air as a thrusting device.
		You can have other kinds of systems that have some efficiency, but we achieve efficiency close to 93% with the fans that we have developed with the help of some very excellent consultants.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		It's a regular fan-type blade then?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we have about seven carbon fiber blades.
unidentified		Okay, second question.
unidentified		Earlier you briefly mentioned the noise problem, and I was wondering if you had examined, for example, Honda's technology that they use on some of their small engines to keep the noise down, the exhaust noise especially.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, as Art mentioned earlier, our company was the leader in the world at one point in silencing of engines with the SuperTrap company, so we got pretty good at that.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I think, though, we have to go a step further than what we achieved at that time, and that's this mutual noise cancellation where you generate an anti-noise similar to the noise, the same frequency, so to speak, and then you phase shift it, meaning that you hit it in the valleys where the peaks are just out of phase with the existing noise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I'm familiar with that technology.
		It's fascinating, but I do have a question with respect to it.
		People are always concerned about their hearing with respect to noise.
		Correct.
		And even though you cancel noise, do you also cancel the effect it potentially might have on your hearing?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you do with cancellation?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		When I knock the noise out, I knock all of the acoustical energy out.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It's like, you know, if you're throwing a rock at me, I throw a rock back at you, and it hits dead in the center, and that's the energy is gone, and that's the energy that would hurt your ears.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No kidding.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		So it's gone, and that noise has disappeared entirely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right.
		Well, Dr. Paul Mueller is my guest, and he's the kind of guy they're singing about here, you know, up from nothing.
		Why?
		Because he had a better idea.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast AM in the nighttime.
		This part of the show, listen online with screen links.
		Log on to coasttocoastam.com.
		Only in America.
		There's a opportunity, yeah.
		With a classy girl like you, or a poor boy like me.
		In America.
		Can a kid who's watching a car?
		Take a giant step and reach right up and find.
		Oh, yeah.
		Hey ya hey ya oh!
		Hey ya oh!
		The End
		The End Want to take a ride?
		Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach ART at 1-775-727-1222.
		The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		And to call Art on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coaster Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nigh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A program designed to lead the way, and it does.
		And we've got somebody who leads the way himself on it right now, Dr. Paul Mahler, designer, perhaps producer, of the Sky Car.
		It's a real thing, the real McCoy.
		It's about to be airborne in the spring for the world's press.
		It'll happen over a lake, and it may well be your future mode of transportation.
		chance to talk to dr muller coming right up Once again, Dr. Mahler.
		Doctor, before it gets away from me here, is there anything that we should have talked about this time in this interview that we didn't cover in depth sufficiently or that we didn't cover at all?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's only one thought that occurred to me.
		You know, obviously, as popular as your show is, when you give a website like ours, we only found out we were going to be together here earlier in the week, so we really didn't have a chance to prepare our website for the onslaught.
		So if your readers or your listeners have a delay getting to us, be patient.
		Get to us during the week if you can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we murder some of the best websites, actually.
		So that's right.
		Keep trying as the watchword.
		I mean, if you don't get through right away, it's because zillions of people are trying to do so.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Sure, and it'll be there for anybody who's, you know, there's a lot of data there about the SkyCar and other things that we're doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Mueller.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		This is Theo from New Jersey.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Theo.
unidentified		Dr. Mueller, how do you feel that the Skycar will affect current air traffic and the air traffic economically?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How, in other words, airliners and the airline industry, what impact on that?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, the airline, about 80% of the flights today are about the range of the Skycar.
		So if, in fact, you offload it, as you know, airports are becoming completely impacted by the short flights.
		And if you want to take a long flight, you suffer the same consequences because of that.
		So if Skycars really offloaded airports, and as I said, about 80% of the flights are the range of the Skycar, meaning they could be handled by vehicles like that, then airports have become far more efficient as highways would become, because again, about 85% of the miles traveled on the highway are 50 miles or more.
		So again, I'm sorry, less than 50 miles.
		So that, in fact, the Skycar could replace a great deal of that that is out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Still, though, our roads now are filled with both buses, some sort of mass transportation, and automobiles, individual transportation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why couldn't somebody imagine roughly the same thing in the sky between airliners and skycars?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		I mean, there is one thing that's physically true.
		The skycar really can't be bigger than six passengers, but that's fine.
		I mean, what you do is you have a world where you fly on demand rather than on schedule.
		You know, five people arrive at an airport or six people and the aircraft takes off.
		Another five arrive and takes off rather than have to sit there and wait for a scheduled flight and all of the other issues that go with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you imagine sport models?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, I think it's pretty sporty right now if you've had a chance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly is.
		Wildcard Line, you're on there with Dr. Mahler.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, howdy, Art.
		Good to have you back.
		It's like Christmas every weekend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, thank you.
unidentified		Dr. Mahler, this is the coolest thing ever.
		I'm very excited hearing about all this.
		There's just one thing.
		It sounds like a lot of the safety as far as my fellow Skycar people and buildings around the virtual highway is going to be coming from software.
		Now, software is fairly malleable stuff.
		What happens if we get our hobbyists and hackers get in here and give their Skycars lobotomies and start doing naughty things there?
		What kind of safeguards do we have?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good question, right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One virus and down thousands of vehicles go.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, as I said earlier, we have four computers on board, all programmed by different programmers.
		I mean, that's not the whole answer to it.
		You've obviously got to have different firewalls and other protections for the various computers.
		But I think that what we would want to do always is make sure that we have a number of different systems so that a virus is unlikely to kill all of them.
		Again, if that should happen, I presume that what the system would do is go into a land mode, automatic land mode, and be landed if that extreme case were to occur.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a problem that not just the Skycar would be dependent on, but so many other industries are facing the same questions about hackers.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Mueller.
		Hi.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Going once, going twice.
		Gone.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
		Good evening, gentlemen.
		Happy Halloween.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Happy Halloween.
unidentified		I was just wondering, to raise capital awareness in joint ventures, if Mr. Mueller has talked to Paul McCready of Aero Environment or Ballard Fuel Cell Technology to try to clean up the propulsion.
unidentified		And I also wondered if there's a possibility for promotional purposes if someone, say, like John Travolta, who's a Qantas spokesman pilot actor, could be utilized alongside with, say, various past famous astronauts and people like lead majors and, say, Jensen's animation to put some promotional hype for capital and awareness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, I hope some of them are listening to the show tonight because really the problem often is getting through to talk to these people.
		We always feel that if we had the opportunity to sit down with many of these people who could do us a lot of good, that we would certainly convince them.
		But they are so normally sheltered by their protectors around them.
		And we do the same thing in our company, of course.
		I'm fairly well protected from people coming in that it becomes almost impossible to even have an opportunity to talk to these people.
		But undoubtedly, with shows like this and other things coming up, as I mentioned earlier, with Esquire Magazine and Tech TV and Discovery, I would expect we will find that they will come to see us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I rather imagine so.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Mueller.
		Hi.
unidentified		Gentlemen, good morning.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm fine.
unidentified		Good morning.
		First of all, Art, first time I've talked to you, you are the master.
		I'd let you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're very kind.
unidentified		Thank you.
		And Dr. Mueller, I'm currently studying to be a recording engineer in Minneapolis.
		And I overheard the comments about the noise cancellation through phase shifting.
		Interesting stuff.
		My question is, what type of transducers would you be using exactly to cancel that noise at that extent or that level, I guess?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, normally you have to use a number of microphones because, of course, you're dealing with a number of different frequencies.
unidentified		Sure.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		So you end up doing what's called a foyer analysis, picking up the dominant frequencies and then tuning those individual microphones for But that's noise.
		As you know, sound is a logarithmic thing, so most of the energy is carried in very few frequencies.
		Right.
unidentified		Is there a certain transducer you would use, a cardioid?
unidentified		A cardioid polar pattern or something?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I'm not an expert in that, but I have people around me who are, and I've got consultants who I work with who would do this, and they certainly would know more about it than I, so I'm sorry I can't answer that specific question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, a necessity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're really involved in the actual development of a lot of different technologies to achieve this, aren't you?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		We're involved, as you know.
		We do all our own software.
		We develop all our own computer boards.
		We have them printed outside, but we assemble them in-house.
		We build our own aircraft frames, all the fiberglass.
		We do all our own machining.
		And we build our own engines.
		So in a sense, we're pretty broad in what we take on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's remarkable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcart Line, you're on the air with Dr. Mueller.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Gordy in Prump.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Oh, and Prump.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
unidentified		And I had a question regarding the air traffic control system.
		Our air traffic control system is, well, goodness, they still use tube-type stuff in some cases.
		Can they really be ready in 10 years?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very good question.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I would say that would be a hard question to answer a few years ago, but with the movements taking place right now and the fact that they recognize that they have a serious problem, I mean, there's no question about the fact that they are promising that 10 years from now, there will not be a single fatality in the air.
		I mean, this is what the FBA is promising.
		And the only way they're going to deliver on that is to make those kinds of changes that would make that possible and getting the air controller, who obviously does a great job of what he's doing, but he's a human and he's dealing with a huge amount of information, something the computer can handle much better.
		And so I think it's a world that I think is extremely promising from existing aircraft and certainly the opportunity it provides aircraft like ours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Mueller.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am in Oregon, Ohio, right next to Toledo, Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rock away.
unidentified		SPD, 1370.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I had a question for your guest.
unidentified		I wondered if the Skycar, because I went to the website, it's Moeller.com from Skycar.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Right, Moeller.com.
unidentified		And it says that our regular page is unavailable at this time.
unidentified		Please go back in a day or two.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's what they had to put that up just because they were afraid that that would happen, obviously, with the popularity of Art Bell's show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So be patient is what the doctor is going to say.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Just come back and see us.
		You're going to find lots of things.
		There's model Skycar sold on there.
		There's been about a half a million of those sold already.
		You can get t-shirts.
		You can get almost anything because, obviously, we try to do whatever method we can to raise money for the Skycar.
unidentified		Okay.
		And I saw that the picture on front there, is that what the Skycar looks like?
		Because I wondered if when you do a turn, does it bank like a normal aircraft?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It banks like a normal aircraft, right?
unidentified		And it's got ailerons?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's got effectively ailerons.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		The vanes in the exit of the ducts act as ailerons and elevators.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And I had a comment about the solar flare.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Last night about 3, I do like some security work in an apartment complex.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I saw this.
		I'm sitting there, and I'm sitting in the dark because I don't, like, cognito, waiting for somebody to come along, try to break into a car or something.
		And I'm sitting there, and all of a sudden I see this really bright shine of light.
		And it was so bright.
		I mean, we have light-censored lights.
		And they all went out.
		And I wasn't sure what it was.
		And I listened because George Nori was on.
		And he didn't say anything about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I appreciate the call.
		It might have been the Northern Lights.
		Who knows?
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Mueller.
		Hi, hello there.
unidentified		Oh, this is Jim?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Yeah, I just had a question.
		I had some major aesthetic concerns regarding these sky cars.
		When you look up in the sky, what are you going to see?
		Are they going to be so high up that you can barely see them?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, most of them, if they're as quiet as we intend them to be, you wouldn't even know they're there because most of them would be from 5,000 feet to 20,000 feet.
unidentified		Well, what about the zone where they have to interact before getting up there?
		That seems like the big question.
		If people are going to take off from their rooftops, they have to get up there somehow, and there's going to be all kinds of chaos when you said they were unregulated up to the point they'd reached the highway, right?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, they would go along since you're controlled at all times.
unidentified		But I mean, if you take off from your roof, how are you controlling your neighbors?
unidentified		Think about this.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		You take off from your house today in the city, you follow a street, correct?
		And you follow that street perhaps to some destination.
		This destination could be a vertiport, where so you would follow a virtual highway or roadway or streetway for some distance until you get to the takeoff point.
		With this kind of accuracy that we're talking about with WAS and LAS that I mentioned earlier, you're talking about control within inches at all times.
		And I mean, that is an absolute guarantee that's possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it really is possible.
		That's right.
		They can deliver warheads the same way.
		So certainly it's possible.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		But for the most part, to answer his question another way, you're going to drive on the street in any case, because this is a roadable vehicle.
		It's legal on the street.
		It's 18.5 feet wide when the pods are folded in.
		So you would drive, for the most part, on the street to a vertebrate that may be two or three blocks from your home and then take off from there.
		It's true, it'll be some time before you can kick off your home safely and not worry about running into your neighbor next door.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Mueller.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, ma'am.
unidentified		What's going on with the Security and Exchange Commission?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's an interesting question.
		Unfortunately, I can't answer that question because I'm, as president of the company, I'm actually not allowed to do so.
		But there is an internet site, if you want to look at it, and it's geocities slash, gosh, I don't have it tidy in front of me, but it's, I tell you what, call my company and get the website that has all of the information on that because I believe the stockholders in my company are very important.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies call toll-free 1-800-618-8255.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Not on my own behalf.
		I'm just telling you what I understand is the case.
		So I suggest you call my company, get that website and then you'll find out everything you need to know about the SEC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wild Carline, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, yes.
unidentified		Art, it's good to hear you back again.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		And I am a long-haul truck driver.
		My name is Judy, and by the way, I'm listening to you on XM.
		Wonderful.
		Do you see the commercial application for trucking for long-haul for cargo transportation in your envisions of the future?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, what a very good question.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		A really good question, yes.
		I think you'd see us delivering high-value parcels like UPS, very important, local type overnights or even hourly delivery.
		We can't compete with trucking, of course, because there's nothing more efficient than a big truck running along the ground.
		I mean, when you're in the air, it takes a lot of power to maintain yourself in the air.
		So trucking is going to remain as it is and doing the job it does.
		But we can be very competitive if used as a high-value delivery system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But not necessarily, in other words, the weight would be.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Not large quantities of just valuable quantities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then maybe our traditional roads and, of course, railroads could continue to carry the do the heavy lifting, so to speak.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Right.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, what will happen is, of course, the Skycar will offload so much of that, so the truckers are going to have a lot easier time of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Mueller.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn off your radio, please.
unidentified		All right.
		I wondered if Dr. Mueller has any idea whatever happened to a competitor that had a flying car that was shaped like a giant kazoo that had two engines mounted horizontally.
		And there was a gentleman, I believe, from Norway who had purchased the licensing rights.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I am very familiar.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		They used to call it the solar trek, correct?
unidentified		Oh, that's right.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Mike Mosier.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Mike Mosier used to work for me for a while.
		He's since sold the company, as I understand it, to some other individual who are still working to try and make it work.
		And I think with enough time and effort, it will work.
		I don't think that the average individual is going to be too happy trucking along in a sky out in the airstream.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then he's a competitor in a way, right?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Sure, sure.
		He's doing something very interesting.
		I would argue that it has a number of the elements that make the helicopter risky, a number of moving parts, any one of which fails, the aircraft is going to fail.
unidentified		He was supposed to unveil it at the Lillehammer Winter Olympics, and I saw it at the Toronto Star full-page spread, and I just thought, well, it seemed to be the most type I've ever seen of any flying car, even though yours looks much safer and more sophisticated.
		But I just thought, well, sure.
		It's not happening.
		Perhaps you have to get it over and dump it with yours.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, I think it's another form of helicopter, quite frankly, and it's an interesting concept involving Dr. Femmes.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		But it does, in my opinion, suffer from the one critical element, that it has a number of things that could fail and the vehicle would fail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Mueller.
unidentified		Hi.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Right now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's how it works.
unidentified		Yeah, I loved your book, The Quickening.
		I wanted to ask Mr. Mueller, I'm an aircraft welder.
		I was wondering if there was any welding that you guys do on the skycar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in fact, how about the whole question of manufacturing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, this is going to be a lot of money in a giant industry, right, Doctor?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
		Yeah, we do some welding right now.
		I think eventually there'll be other techniques involved.
		But for the most part, the aircraft is composite, meaning it's built of carbon fiber and fiberglass.
		There is some aluminum, riveted aluminum in the nacelles themselves for the moment, but that probably will be converted later on to composite as well.
		But we do have some welding when we join undercarriages and when we bracket nacelles to the Skycar.
		It still requires some steel.
		But there isn't a lot of welding as such, and most of that would be done automatically.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, we're out of time for the program, but coming up in the spring, this is kind of, I'm sure, the next time my listeners will suddenly hear from and or see you this coming spring, big demonstration above the lake, and that'll be covered by the major media, correct?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		Yeah, we have about 600 TV magazines, newspapers, radio stations, et cetera, signed up for the attendance.
		And I'm sure as we get closer, that's going to get closer to 1,000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My friends, I wish you all the luck in the world with the Skycar.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		I appreciate the opportunity to be with you in this discussion this evening.
		It's been good fun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, Doctor.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Kidoki, in the next hour, we're going to shift gears big time, and we're going to talk to a vampire.
		How frequently on radio or television or anything else do you get to interview a vampire?
unidentified		Not too frequently, I would say, but we're going to do it next.
		The End
		Once upon a
		time, once when you were in love, I remember those times, You're dancing in your
		life, and I wonder where you are, I wonder if you think about me, once upon a time, And you're the one I've heard as dreams.
		you you Wanna take a ride?
		Call Art Bell from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach ART at area code 775-727-1222.
		Or call the Wildcard line at 775-727-1295.
		To talk with ART on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thought you might be interested in how this interview that is about to occur came to pass.
unidentified		It was simple.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One of you out there sent me an email and said, hey, Art, why don't you interview a vampire?
		And they put a link there, and I clicked on the link, right?
		I mean, why not?
		And it comes up with this incredible website, and it's got a skull with wings.
		At the top, it says, Temple of the Vampire.
		By the way, you can go see this for yourself.
		Be my guest.
		It's at coastcoastam.com.
		And then in blood red, just below, that's right, blood red, it says, do you want to live forever?
		Well, I was hooked and decided to pursue a guest on this subject.
		And in fact, that is my guest website.
		Now, you can get to a bygoingcoastcoastam.com and then clicking on my guest's link right there.
		And that's what you're going to get hit with in blood red.
		Do you want to live forever?
		So just go up to the point on the website there on the upper right-hand side where it says Vampire Temple and click on that.
		And that's where you're headed.
		Anyway, that's the way Nemo, who is a living vampire, got here.
		He's a member of the secret society known as the Temple of the Vampire.
		He's a member of the Temple Priesthood and a Temple Master Adept.
		The Temple is an international church devoted to the vampire religion, legally registered with the U.S. government since 1989.
		The primary text describing the temple teachings is the vampire Bible, which can be found at www.vampiretemple.com forward slash vault.
		That's right, Vault, B-A-U-L-T-Vault.
		Temple members are true vampires, members of the vampire religion.
		Vampirism is not easily understood in America, or anywhere, really, and is reserved only to those who were born to the blood, those who feel the draw of the night,
		those who find that they are different from the herd of humanity and that they just virtually Glory in that difference to find those who are of the blood but have been unaware of their heritage is the mission and purpose of the temple to find those born of the blood.
		home on a coming up in a moment memo All right, here we go.
		Nemo.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, how are you?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm well, Art, and I wanted to thank you for this opportunity.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		It's very rare for the temple to give permission for a media interview.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		I've been given special permission to discuss a much wider range of subjects than generally allowed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would that be like special dispensation?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Special dispensation might be a very appropriate term, yes.
		So tonight should be a special treat for your listeners.
		Thank you for having me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You really are a vampire.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes, a vampire is a member of the vampire religion, as you mentioned before.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		We practice a discipline to break free of mental delusions and to unite the two sides of the mind, the conscious and the unconscious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But a lot of people would say vampirism is a delusion.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, of course.
		And in fact, there's good reason to believe that this has been promoted.
		We actually are in favor of the concept that people, frankly, group, reject the reality of vampirism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you don't actually want people to believe it.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Fundamentally, no.
		We actually, and with the people who actually become members of the temple, we discourage belief entirely.
		Everything that we are involved with is intended to be self-validated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you ask the question on your website in bold red, do you want to live forever?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you really mean that?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes, precisely that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You really mean that?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is no question in your mind that one is able to physically live way beyond the normal span of human years.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes, definitely.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		And in fact, to actually answer that question does require a little bit of background, but fundamentally, even the first advertisement that you had on your program for HGH, human health, can't even say it, human growth hormone is an example of life extension.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but I don't think the vampire method, though.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Pardon me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think it's the vampire method, though.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Actually, that's part of it, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we have a day-side view of reality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's like a little dose of op-positive and HGH.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Well, we don't drink human blood.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		That's something that is actually even forbidden.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, wait just a moment.
		Everybody knows that vampires drink blood.
		So what are you talking about?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Fundamentally, what we absorb is the excess life force.
		Some people call it Qi, Qi, Prana, Bioenergy, that is given off all the time by people, radiated and wasted.
		And what we do is absorb it and regenerate it and actually utilize it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're not telling me, you're not even telling me that you suck the virtual life force from the soul of people.
		You're telling me you only take the fringes, the excess.
		Is that correct?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's no need to try to do that.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		I don't even know if that's possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
		So all these people are walking around with all this excess energy.
		It's like oil dripping from them.
		And so you absorb the outer portions of this only, just taking a little taste.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		When people go to any kind of a group where there is a lot of energy that's being put out, such as football games, religious revivals, there's a tremendous amount of power that goes out.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		This evening I went to one of the commercial haunted houses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What we would call gatherings and you would call opportunities, I suppose.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Precisely right.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's two sides to it, and that's one side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So wherever large groups gather and get excited, you feed.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		That's one easy way to view it, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the way I'm doing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why does vampirism have such a bad reputation, do you think?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		I think it's because it is wrapped very much around the concept of death.
		And there's one thing that is absolutely true in our culture is that the avoidance of considering death, thinking about death, is very much a driving force in our psychology.
		So anything that challenges that is very much going to be forbidden.
		It's going to come up as a problem.
		So what it amounts to is that if you frankly talk to people and you just say, look, would you like to live forever?
		And I suggest that anyone listening try this.
		I don't care, pick 10 people at random that you know.
		Ask them.
		They'll usually say no.
		They will usually say no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you're quite correct.
		Actually, do you know I've asked that question and you are absolutely 100% correct.
		I did it on a local show here just for the fun of it.
		And you're right.
		More than not, people will say no.
		They would not want to live forever.
		And I've speculated about why that is.
		Why do you think?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Part of this comes from the fact that through history, up to this point, people have not been able to do so.
		Everyone who is born and becomes aware of death, usually when they're children, are, frankly, horrified at the thought that they have to say goodbye to people that they love and care for, that someday they'll have to say goodbye themselves.
		And this underlying fear, we have never had the experience of having human beings walk around who have been physically immortal or about to do so.
		But that's what it is all about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you have apparently the promise of living forever.
		Now, all due respect to HGH, it doesn't even promise that, but you do.
		So how, on what basis?
		I mean, can you go to Raiders games and suck enough energy to keep yourself alive?
		Are you suggesting to me that you're going to be able to live forever because you do that?
		Or is there more?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		There's quite a bit more.
		Like?
		Like, first of all, in order to understand the temple, when people look at these ideas, and they're important ideas, it's very important to realize that to grasp what is true requires more than just one viewpoint.
		And so we actually have three perspectives or structures of viewing the world called the day side, the night side, and the twilight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Meaning?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		The day side is a very common sense view.
		This is what most people would agree is true.
		This is where people have their beliefs about what they think is so.
		The night side is dealing with what most people would put on the fringe, the paranormal, the things that they really would question or disbelieve in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You call that the night side.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes, the night side.
		In the same way that everything on this world is divided into day and night, conscious, unconscious.
		There's a lot of divisions which make a great deal of sense.
		So from this same perspective for immortality, from the day side common sense practical perspective, the temple suggests that physical immortality is right around the scientific corner.
		The human genome project was just finished about two years ago.
		They've identified the cell clock, which limits the lifespan of human beings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But let's get something straight.
		You can't promise immortality with vampirism short of a medical advance.
		I admit they're getting very close.
		They are.
		But I thought within vampirism somewhere there would be the tenet that if you do, if you follow the dictates, you're going to live forever.
		Anyway, is there or is there not that promise?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		There is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		That's from the night side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the night side.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
		If you try to hold a viewpoint that is contradicted internally, it's going to be very difficult to be consistent in what you do and what you think.
		So we recommend that people remove delusions and illusions from their day side.
		That's a very big part of what we do.
		And then that enables them to move more of the elements of the night side, of the things that are considered paranormal, into their day side, where it actually becomes part of their life, becomes a normal part.
		So for example, from the night side view, we take life force, it vitalizes the body, it enables consciousness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does it, if you take enough, enable immortality?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm trying to nail that down.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Then the stage beyond that is that we do a lot of work with lucid dreaming and out-of-body experience.
		And one of the big keys to out-of-body experience is to wake up.
		We take the perspective that whenever a person sleeps, they're out of body anyway.
		The key is, can you become aware of the fact that that's happening when it's happening?
		And so then there are other details that are attached to this.
		But fundamentally, when a person physically dies, what we expect happens is that the conscious divides from the unconscious.
		There simply isn't enough coherence, cohesion, energy to keep everything together.
		And so one of the features of learning to practice the taking of life force, we call vampirism, is in order so that when a person does physically die, if they don't make it through to where we can keep the same physical bodies, then they'll be able to maintain consciousness, keep the link to the unconscious where all of your memories are, and thereby be able to continue.
		Now that continuation, we also hold, all of these things come through the temple teachings, which have been transmitted to us from people who have succeeded in doing this.
		And as a consequence, we arrange to preserve the body as opposed to cremating if we can possibly do so, because that gives you more time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but you're talking about people that are physically dying, right?
		Pardon me?
		I guess I'm confused.
		You're talking about people that are physically dying and things that, in ways you can prepare them for that, but not telling me how you avoid it altogether.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Well, the key to this, of course, is that there are about six billion people on the planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		And at all times, there are people who are passing away, dying of one cause or another.
		Sometimes not naturally.
		Sometimes this happens through accidents.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		what it amounts to is that once you learn the trick of being able to be out of body then there is the possibility of taking a body when it is no longer being occupied if you follow me all right so i don't know that the other people who are we view as being the successful You know, let me just slide something in here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've talked to a lot of out-of-body type people, you know, who actually teach out-of-body, right?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And one of the things that they say, and maybe you would want to challenge this, is that when you're out-of-body, there is zero possibility, no possibility, that some other entity or form could take your body whilst you're away.
		They say it's impossible.
		Now, it sounds to me like you're saying, oh, but it is possible.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Well, the thing is that I have to be very clear that what I'll be discussing here tonight, I won't be attempting to prove things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just asking you, is it, can you do that?
		Can you take someone's body?
		Of course.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		I'm in one now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One that you took or one that I was born in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you were spanked on Fanny in that one.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Pardon me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Spanked, you know, when you were born?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		I don't remember that, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, but it is your contention that I'm trying to nail you down here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sorry, poor expression.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		No problem.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Just don't stake me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are convinced that before you physically die, you're going to be able to take someone else's body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's get that straight.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes, because in a very real sense, and this does take quite a bit of understanding, there's just no getting around it.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		It is outside of the paradigm that most people operate in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Way out of mine.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		It's very different.
		And that is that fundamentally you are not in a body right now anyway.
		It seems that way to so many people, but that's some of the illusions that need to be lifted.
		When a person understands where they're really operating from, and I do mean that spatially, then it becomes much easier to understand how it would be possible to work through another person's physical body.
		The very fact that possession is talked about so much would indicate that there might be something to it.
		The many people whom I do have great respect for, such as Bullman, for example, with his work with out-of-body experience, will state that to their experience such a thing is not possible, and they give good reasons why they think so.
		Yes, indeed.
		The difference is that we have people who have experiences that disagree.
		Well, it may just simply be that they haven't had those experiences.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, listen, I've challenged them on this point.
		You know, if on the one hand you agree with the premise that it's possible to leave your body, and a lot of people, a lot of my listeners, know that it is true, then it only made sense to me that if you knew what you were doing, you could virtually occupy one of those bodies if you chose to.
		They maintain, no, I'm not so sure.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot of fear which is attached to death, which is deeply embedded into human beings.
		It's always been the case.
		And when people are attempting, and I applaud their efforts, anyone, to learn to rise above the physical, to learn to leave the body in that sense, then any fear that would cause them to hesitate, to dive back in, to be shocked, and therefore become more physically aware and therefore to abort that effort, that is a problem.
		And so, of course, the idea that there would be all kinds of lurking monsters ready to jump into your body and take over and possess you can be a source of fear.
		The thing is, is that for whatever reason there is, it does seem that that kind of issue is not a real problem.
		Secondarily, it isn't really, to my experience, an issue of a person being unable to protect themselves or something.
		There aren't that many bodies that are being sought.
		And when that occasion occurs, it's usually at a person's death.
		It's when someone is going to be severely injured, but there is a chance for recovery.
		There's sometimes people who, in a very real sense, aren't very much there to begin with.
		And so as a consequence, there isn't really, if you will, an occupant.
		Again, the idea that we are in a body to begin with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a little bit of a judgment call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A little bit of a judgment call there.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in that manner, then by taking someone's body, you can live forever.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		We consider a physical anchor required in order to contain and maintain consciousness such that it moves the life force to where you are, so to speak.
		If you cut off your ability to have energy, pressure on the carotid arteries of the next few seconds, I believe it's six usually, a person loses consciousness.
		We constantly need that to be aware and awake.
		It's an enormous amount of energy required.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've studied that, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long it takes for a person to lose consciousness?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Reddit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Carotid artery.
		Okay, I'll stay right there.
		Nemo is my guest.
		Nemo is a vampire.
		He actually is a very important vampire, I guess, in the hierarchy of things.
		From the high desert in the middle of the night with the winds blowing, I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		The official website of Coast to Coast AM is www.coastacoastam.com.
		Log on now.
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		Sweet dreams are made of these.
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		Everybody is looking for something.
		Some of them want to use you.
		Some of them want to get used by you.
		Some of them want to abuse you.
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wonder if Nino has a mate.
		Nemo, perhaps has a wife or a girlfriend, and whether they go out and neck.
		Sorry, I forgot.
		They don't drink blood, but they are vampires, and I have one of them here by special dispensation.
		Nemo is my guest.
		he'll be right back It's clear to me that Nemo believes himself to be what he says he is, a vampire.
		Clearly so.
		Somebody who just came on to do this, he's got a website up, and there's the, in fact, there is the vampire Bible.
		What is the vampire Bible?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, the Vampire Bible is fundamentally our basic work that explains what is Essential to the religion.
		It's a highly condensed 55-page book.
		We have a vampire creed.
		We have a statement called Dragon Speaks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's almost a Bible pamphlet.
		Not quite.
		50 some odd pages.
		Who wrote the vampire Bible?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		These ideas were actually transmitted to us from people who have already succeeded in accomplishing the goals.
		I could point to my own grandfather.
		He's one person who's been in communication with me.
		Usually, as people who have this experience grow up, they are unaware of the fact that things are happening around them.
		Sometimes this becomes obvious in early adulthood, sometimes later.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is your grandfather now in his second life?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		That would count very strongly, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know which body he snatched offhand?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't be at liberty to discuss that at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, that brings up another subject, and that is how many things could I ask you that you wouldn't answer?
		What percentage of things about vampirism and your life would you simply not be able to talk about on the air?
		How much of it?
		A lot?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Well, insofar as wanting to keep my own personal identity somewhat under control, not too much that's personal, but in terms of the teachings, in terms of what this is about as a religion, as a practice, the goals, the benefits, the means to achieve it, questioning drawbacks other people might have concerns with, no problem.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I'm here to talk to this audience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure, it's a good idea.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Because we believe the very kind of people most likely to consider the temple are listening to us right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sure that's true.
		I really am.
		The benefits, I guess, if eternity is there, are obvious.
		What about the downside of vampirism?
		What's the downside?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		I was expecting people to ask me what they thought that would be.
		There are two elements that I think that really do count as being a downside.
		One is that, and I've already seen this in my own relatively short life, and that is that you see people that you do care for who do embrace a deafist perspective, which is our universal cultural view, and will reject being able to continue.
		Well, it's sad to see them go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't it a tough moment for you when you have to tell the young lady of your, I don't know, interest, listen, Han, there is something you should know.
		Yeah, I mean, I don't know how you break it.
		But right?
		I mean, that's part of the downside that you sort of just explained, isn't it?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		What seems to be true is that, and there are many theories, even we are not certain, but the people who are attracted to actually wanting to endure and are willing to actually do something about it and develop experiences and test them and face a lot of these fears, a very, very small fraction of the human population.
		As a consequence, what we found is that generally, in terms of mates and relationships, the people who get along with each other share those views.
		It's very rare to find someone who is truly a vampire who will not be attracted to another person who is.
		And it's very rare that relationships will work out that are not.
		Self-correcting problems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do they happen?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Pardon me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do they happen to such relationships?
unidentified		Yes, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The mortal and the immortal.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		It does happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A little awkward, though, huh?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Well, it can be when it comes to important issues.
		It can be when it's to such things as long-term planning.
		No joke.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I know.
		Obviously, long-term planning would be a big deal.
		A really big deal.
		I mean, couples plan together and yeah, gee, you know, you'd have to be sitting there thinking about the next wife.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		That's actually not a small point.
		That's true.
		What we do find is that because of the way of looking at the world, that practical answers to very real-world problems, including better relationships, marriages, do seem to come as a consequence of applying the temple teachings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what about offspring of these lucky ones?
		How do you handle it?
		I mean, you would obviously have maternal feelings and want to bestow immortality on those of your own blood.
		Of course, I guess it wouldn't be a problem because they are of your blood, huh?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's not necessarily a physical thing at all, but in the very real sense that we care for our children, absolutely.
		And what that stems from primarily is just simply giving them a good, clear, rational understanding of what is going on in the world, dispelling illusions, encouraging them to not discount paranormal phenomena when it does happen, reassuring them that things can work out, and basically when they're ready, as they grow up and become adults, being able to make intelligent choices about those kinds of things.
		And we've already seen people who've done this, so that's not an issue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the Vampire Bible, I guess there's obviously mention of undead gods.
		Undead gods.
		Undead gods.
		Undead gods are the ones you worship?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Well, worship would imply working for, which I believe is the derivation of the word originally.
		In that sense, serving and working for your own family makes perfect sense.
		The undead gods are really us when we're freed of delusion and we're astrally free.
		It isn't someone else.
		One of the major things in the vampire religion is that if in the sense of being the most important person in your world you would consider that to be God, then we view the vampire God as you.
		If you accomplish that, you get to basically say, well, that's me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you thought of the public relations aspect of this?
		In other words, what you've described, I guess, could be loosely, or maybe not so loosely, described as vampirism, sure.
		But you could come with a more attractive name.
		I mean, look at what Hollywood has done to your name.
unidentified		Yes.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		What is the debated bias as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They've ruined you.
		They've ruined you.
		I mean, why not pick another name?
		Why stick with vampirism?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		And it may be that we won't.
		That's entirely possible.
		Really?
		The Temple is an experiment.
		It was only started, it was suggested strongly in 1988, approved in 1989.
		That's when we went public.
		It's an experiment to see whether or not we can approach people consciously who are candidates as opposed to the old way, which is primarily unconscious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then this is a kind of an experiment to see if you can interface successfully without getting murdered, burned at the stake, or otherwise maimed or mutilated, right?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Actually, this is more of an experiment rather than worrying about security, as it is to see, is it possible to approach human beings consciously with the teachings as opposed to unconsciously, which has been the way it's always been.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		There's been long debate for many, many, many years, and there have been different approaches that have approximated it, but nothing was ever approved before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how's the experiment going so far?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		So far, it seems to be going quite well with those people who do pass through all the filters, and the filters are self-imposed.
		There has been a viewpoint that by using the word vampirism, we are also being very direct with saying, yes, we are taking life force that is given off by humans.
		We are saying that we prefer life over physical death, being permanent.
		That we have an attitude of being, if you will, a predator towards human beings.
		Not in the sense of killing them, but in the sense of taking advantage of what they are unwilling to do themselves.
		We are human beings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You really have a way with words, Nemo.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, thank you.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		So do you, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're very welcome.
		You managed to take something that, well, for most people is a horror.
		And actually, the concept of taking blood or taking energy is not all that different, really.
		Now, here's a question for you, Nemo.
		Many people have experienced this.
		They'll be in a room.
		It could be semi-private, you know, two-people meeting or even a party or a room full of people or whatever.
		And suddenly they feel drained.
		Somebody has literally drained them of their life force and they're suddenly tired.
		And they felt like they've, you know, it's just been succubus at work at them.
		And from what you've said, it doesn't sound like you'd be responsible for anything like that, sucking at the very outskirts of the life force.
		But, you know, I can't help but wonder if, you know, one of your sort could have been responsible for that.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Not living vampires.
		That's something I can vouch for from my own long experience with this.
		What happens if a person's blood sugar drops through the floor so that they're so tired, and that's a chemical issue.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a medical problem.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		The life force energy that is given out is not necessarily directly correlated to the physical energy that a person will necessarily feel.
		So if a person feels suddenly drained by the presence of someone else, many possibilities to explain that.
		Generally, without trying to sound negative about this, but if you think of the way we have dairy cows that produce milk, you don't milk them, the cow becomes uncomfortable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		So the same way human beings give off energy, if it becomes, if you will, constipated, it actually can cause problems.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		The flow of key through the body is very positive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think of yourself as walking around and helping people.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Fundamentally, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just improving the way they feel and taking all that, sort of milking them, the human cows, sort of.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes, the human herd.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The human herd.
		You see, it's necessary to kind of read in between the lines of what you say, because I realize you're very adept at putting things in an almost acceptable way, you know, for people to listen to and say, well, hey, vampirism, I never thought about it that way.
		Maybe.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Well, for those who would accept it, there is the possibility, and they will find they're attracted to it.
		For those who find that it's objectionable, it's questionable whether they would ever get past that objection.
		We see what we look for, we look for what we see, and our perceptions are altered by what we expect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got a symbol, right?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's on the website there.
		That hit me square between the eyes, a skull with two snakes and wings.
		And I wondered then and wonder now, a skull, two snakes, and wings.
		Well, you know what that means to me?
		That means the skull is the poor person who's had the last little anything sucked from them.
		The snakes are the ones that did it, and you're flying away in a new body.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Part of that sounds very good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what does it mean?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's not Harley-Davidson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're there.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		We've had some people wonder.
		The symbol of the temple is a teaching device for the unconscious.
		It has many nested meanings.
		Not a lot of them I can talk about, but...
unidentified		Sure.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		In Egypt, the same symbol is commonly seen as the winged orb.
		The orb was the top of the skull.
		As the face is now rising to public awareness, it's turned up to face directly.
		The skull represents the center of awareness behind the eyes.
		It is also a reminder of what endures beyond death.
		The snakes on each side do represent the flow of life force, the Eda and Pengala, the energy channels.
		And the wings represent flight, freedom, rising above the current human condition.
		And the moon behind is a reminder of the night side.
		The ancient city of Ur in Samaria was dedicated to the moon god.
		Our priesthood is the priesthood of Ur.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're doing this interview, and you know what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't even know where are you, What part of the country are you in?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm in Washington State.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Washington State.
		All right, so you're on Pacific Time, but nevertheless, it's 10 to 2 or so, you know.
		Now, are you a night creature?
		Are you nocturnal by choice?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		I go to bed around 8 p.m., and I get up usually around 4 a.m.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		4 a.m.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, hell, that's almost a farmer.
		No, I meant nocturnal as in, do you stay awake during the dark hours?
		And you almost, you know, you sleep the dark hours, huh?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's when it's important to be doing work without a body and lucid dreaming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you sleep in a bed?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes, the coffins are just not comfortable this time of the year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're disclaiming the whole coffin thing anyway, laughing it off and saying it's a bunch of baloney.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		It's once again representative of a lot of fears.
		The original mythology in our culture of vampires was suitably debunked, I would say, in a book by, I think his name was Barber, put out by Princeton Press, explaining how a misunderstandings about the nature of physical death produced a lot of the vampire mythology.
		But at the same time, if you go back with open eyes and look at what's been written in the oldest writings of the different religions, you find that, frankly, the earliest versions of the different gods were vampiric very definitely.
		but they didn't necessarily sleep in coffins.
		That seems to be a more modern...
		I would say nothing to it, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then how can you let Hollywood get away with this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		depicting you in such a, oh, I don't know, ragged fashion.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		It's really very useful in a...
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		I do believe this is the first time we have discussed any night side topics in mass media to date, period.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so it's a big step, really, in a lot of ways.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		And probably the only one.
		This is, as I said from the beginning, it's been an experiment into its 14th year, and it's just simply to see precisely how well it will work.
		I have to make monthly reports on how well we're doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you, just guessing, you know, all the lines are sitting here ringing away, people who would like to speak with you, Nemo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think the reaction, the average reaction of, well, a cross-section of night people would be to what you're saying?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I imagine that most people will think that it's absolute balderdash.
		And that's completely understandable.
		The key to all of this is that when a person actually wants to explore this, they come with many, many beliefs.
		And we ask people to believe nothing, but to test everything.
		Everything that we do is based upon self-validation so that you build knowledge.
		It isn't an issue of arguing with someone to prove something is true.
		That leads nowhere.
		All of this is involved with those few people who really do wish to find out what is so and be able to utilize it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many others, assuming we have millions listening right now, how many others of the blood do you think that might be listening that don't know or maybe only suspect they are of the blood?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		We speculate that it might be in the nature of 500,000 to a million people out of a 6 million population, but we are not sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Still quite a few.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Because we're not really sure just how much there is the bridge between where people are and where they could go in order to be able to prove these things to themselves.
		We just really don't know.
		Once again, this is experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But a vampire is not made, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A vampire is born.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		It's born with the predispositions, apparently.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		However, it does require definite effort in order to achieve that potential and actualize it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When, out of curiosity, Nemo, when in your life did you realize, oh, I'm a vampire?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When was that?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I would say that was about 20, 25 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		You don't sound that?
		How old are you?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		I'm in my late 50s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First body?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		The only one I remember, let's be honest here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does a vampire that takes a new body have all his memories intact and all his consciousness has moved forward?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Those who have done so state so.
		We assume that's the case, and it does seem to be the case.
		If you deal with someone who has had memory lapses in a normal situation, an Alzheimer's patient, sometimes in the early stages, it's really difficult to realize how much they are confabulating as opposed to actually remembering.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a very good point.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		But it does seem that it does make the transition for those people who do this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So rest your wings and whatever.
		We'll be right back.
		Nemo is a vampire.
		A real vampire.
		You can see his website.
		We've got a link to his website.
		You have to admit, you have to admit as you listen to him that he's very serious, with a good humor, I might add, about what he says he is, and that's a vampire.
		From the high desert, I'm another creature of the night.
		My name is Art Bell.
		right back.
unidentified		Baby, take my hand.
		Don't feel the reverb.
		Will be able to fly.
		Don't feel the reverb.
		Baby, I'm the man.
		How about a free seat?
		In the night, no control, to the wall, something's breaking, wearing white, as you're walking, down the street, on my soul.
		I take myself, I take myself, I'm cold, because you're living only for the night, before the morning comes, the story's cold.
		I take myself, I take myself, I'm cold, another night, another day goes back, I never taught myself to wonder why.
		You love the truth, forget to play my role, you take yourself, you make myself unloved.
		I, I live among the creatures of the night, I haven't got the will to try and fight, against the need tomorrow, before I guess I just believe it, but tomorrow will never come, I say it's night.
		Recharge them in the Kingdom of Mind from West of the Rockies at 1-800-6188255 East of the Rockies 1-800-8255-033.
		First time colours may recharge at 17757271222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 17757271295.
		To recharge on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with our bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where we can say, almost without sounding too amazed, we're interviewing a vampire.
		Yes, Coast does this kind of thing.
		We're interviewing a vampire.
		Nemo is his name.
		He's a real vampire, as far as that goes.
		And I'm trying to learn, naturally, as much as I can about vampirism.
		And I'm trying not to make too many jokes, but it's really hard.
		anyway we'll get back to the mall in a moment because i do know he is serious Once again, here's Nemo, a real vampire.
		nemo this is something all part of head down for after really ask i just do because i've seen every vampire movie are probably ever made so many of them and i noticed that vampires seemed to have a uh...
		a particular interest in and women in low-cut dresses particularly and and and you know i was going to ask about that whether it was actual exposure to the neck or just, you know, the, well, Then I realized that we all have that interest.
		But there isn't anything to that beyond that, is there?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Not that I'm aware of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just wanted to shake that one loose.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's not a problem.
		One of the things that we think about the most as human beings, other than probably commercials, are sex and death.
		And the death is there, of course, pushed aside.
		So that only leaves sex.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, heck.
		That's all right.
		That's right.
		Endless, immortal sex.
		Wow.
		Life could be worse.
		Death could be way worse, yeah.
		Way worse.
		So it doesn't sound that bad.
		All right.
		Now, vampirism embraces certain beliefs about our world, right, and about our future, our world's future, and the future for human beings.
		What is it you believe?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Well, apart from the idea that it's belief is so much as we've been taught and that we're seeing happen, but the temple teaches that consciousness is primary.
		The usual view that most people have is that matter is primary and that the physical universe generates human beings, generates mind, much as liver oozes bile.
		And we take the opposite perspective.
		It's only really been, oh, I would say in the last 10 or 15 years, I'm holding a book in my hand written by a physics professor in Eugene, Oregon at the University of Oregon, Amit Goswami, Ph.D. wrote an excellent book called The Self-Aware Universe, which is one of the very first Western explanations for the concept that consciousness is the foundation of reality and not the other way around, not matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nemo, it's really interesting that you should say that.
		I have come to have certain beliefs with regard to consciousness, mass consciousness, and the power that is potentially behind it.
		I really do think I believe that there is a power there.
		I've seen it, well, actually, I just plain believe it, Nemo.
		There's a great untapped, unknown mass consciousness power that I won't tamper with, but I recognize the fact that it is there.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		What we would say is that that is you.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		And we have a procedure called the de-identification principle, which is taught at Second Circle in detail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Second Circle?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Second Circle.
		There are five circles or five grades of accomplishment within the temple based on written testimony from the members to their accomplishment.
		And Second Circle is where a person has validated that the Temple is real and not just a joke and that Life Force is real.
		If you wish, I can explain the others very quickly.
unidentified		Sure.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		The third circle is the priesthood of Ore.
		That's where people have validated that the undead gods are real and they've also taken an oath of fealty.
		Then the fourth circle has validated that applying the nine laws of magic, which are explained in our works, which are how to function with that precise issue you're describing, the consciousness which is you, which we call the dragon, the self, then to produce real results when they're obtaining that, then they testify and validate and enter fourth circle.
		Fifth circle has validated the nature of the self, which we call the dragon, and has experienced the twilight perspective that we call lucid waking.
		Our simple perspective is to view reality as a Dream.
		Waking up in a dream at night, it's called lucid dreaming, tends to give you more control over the elements of the dream.
		To wake up in this dream is lucid waking.
		That's the twilight, and that is the high goal of the temple to create lucid waking.
		So we have nine laws of magic, which are structures based on a four-dimensional model that explains using these dimensions with the details, the diagrams, precisely how and why to manipulate the very thing that you're talking about.
		I would suggest that you're concerned with backing away from it is really impossible.
		You're it to begin with.
		It's just an issue of do you wish to try to work with it, perhaps?
unidentified		That's not something you have to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, to answer your question, I've had it sufficiently demonstrated to me that I'm aware of what I don't understand about it.
		And that's a little bit the way I feel about this mass consciousness thing.
		I don't understand it well enough to toy with power of that magnitude yet.
		Maybe I will someday, but I know I don't now.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		What we suggest is that people are doing it all the time already.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure that's.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		You're doing it unconsciously without awareness.
		We try to teach them: all right, here's the controls.
		It's like driving a car.
		Make sure you put it in the first gear, apply the gas steadily, make sure you're steering properly, look in your rearview mirror if you're going to back up first.
		Very simple things that can be applied in order to do what you're doing but doing it more consciously.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, again, let's go to a broader, let's try this question again and get broader.
		Again, the Bible speaks of the future of the world.
		What does the vampire Bible say about the future of the world?
		What kind of changes are we going to see?
		Is there an apocalypse in our future as there is in the Christian Bible?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Similar, and we do have a chapter called The Coming Apocalypse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell me about that.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		From the dayside perspective, this is describing on a personal basis and a global basis.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		From the personal basis, right now, of course, all human beings are still aging and facing physical death.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		And the apocalypse on that level symbolizes that personal reality.
		On a global level, for the world as a whole, it's clear that we're on the brink of incredible changes, which will even change what it means to be human.
		For instance, molecular nanotechnology, as envisioned by Eric Drexler in his book, Engines of Creation from almost 20 years ago, will do for physical matter what computers have done for information in terms of control.
		What we now call magic will become science as that comes into reality.
		And there's six nations with tremendous budgets working on that and breakthroughs occurring all the time.
		So we really do expect physical immortality right around the corner for ending aging alone.
		Seeing old people grow young and no longer having people who are born facing physical death is an inevitability is going to have a tremendous impact on every aspect of society.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, wouldn't it have an awfully big impact on vampirism?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Well, we want physical immortality.
		We don't like to see people die.
		We don't want to have to have, if you will, the next host body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm clear on that.
		But one of the main offers or attractions of your religion, it's with the government registered as a religion, so it's a belief system, right?
		Is that it is a belief system, right?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		There are people who would debate that.
		Buddhism is claimed to not be a belief system.
		It depends.
		Theravada, definitely not, I would say.
		And I don't think that ours is by that definition either.
		But we are definitely a religion and that we hold to a doctrine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Most religions have some sort of ritual.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ritual within them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have ritual within vampirism?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		We recommend the calling of the undead gods, which we call communion in the vampire Bible.
		It's a structured approach to making initial contact.
		We recommend persons first understand how to draw life force so they'll accumulate a quantity.
		And then when they go into a ritual, and it does not have to be ritual, but it simply is a good way to structure things so that people basically do it right, if you will, a means to make contact, then the life force that is excess then that has been brought together above what you need is given to those who have been contacting you.
		They in turn return it to the member.
		This is called the reign of mercy.
		This carries with it the unconscious learning patterns from that more developed person to help the member advance more rapidly.
		Frankly, all knowledge, all skills that we really possess are unconscious.
		That's where the memories are.
		And it is possible to have direct transmission to the unconscious.
		In fact, this entire temple approach of going through the conscious mind, we hope will be as effective as the old ways, but it certainly still has to be tested thoroughly.
		It does seem to be working.
		So the teachings of the temple are nothing more than attempting to put into words what is transmitted by the undead.
		When you were asking about the future, I should also probably mention that from a nightside perspective, the temple teaches that the current state of human consciousness is quite unstable, fairly recent in terms of history.
		Probably one of the most excellent demonstrations, I thought, of this was written by Dr. Julian Jaynes of Princeton in his book, The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind.
		And we do expect to see that more stable condition come to most people and not very far away, especially as people acquire longer lives.
		So as this consciousness shift happens, it'll be tremendously upsetting.
		A great deal of violence will probably occur as a consequence.
		But the final result will be beautiful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Most religions might not quite say it that way, but it boils down to about the same thing in the end.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		A great deal of what's out there is the same, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're going to go through a very rough period, whoever you listen to, but then on the other side, it's going to be, I don't know, roses.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Better than roses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're obviously an extremely intelligent person.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		You're very kind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so I just, again, calling yourself vampires, even though perhaps that is an accurate description, even loosely based on what you've said, would seem to have such a downside as to not be worth doing, but rather to rethink your name.
		I'm not sure I'd need a little time, but I mean something with a better public relations ring to it.
		I want to let the audience ask you some questions, if you wouldn't mind.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Not at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on air with Nemo.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, my name is Ingrid.
unidentified		I'm from Utah, Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ingrid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ingrid, you're going to have to speak up good and loud.
unidentified		Okay, I actually had a couple questions.
		One is, I am very energy sensitive.
		I absorb any energy that surrounds me, bad or good, no matter.
		Earlier in the show, I heard you say that some people are predispositioned to vampism-born, if you might say.
		And I wanted to know: how would you know if you are one of those people?
		And if you are, does that make you vulnerable, amazed, if you don't understand yourself?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good question.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		An excellent question.
		And it would sound to me as though you probably are and definitely do have that sensitivity.
		We have some people who come to us who have to develop that sensitivity, but they have other things that drive them to be with us.
		One thing you did mention I might want to suggest that you might want to challenge, when you absorb energy that is given off by other human beings or animals to a lesser extent, it's just not as strong, and you feel that it has a negative or a positive connotation or it's carrying a thought force or emotions of a certain nature, be careful that that isn't something that you may not be projecting.
		Generally, gasoline is gasoline.
		You might get octane of different types, but fundamentally it's still gasoline.
		It isn't water.
		The emotions, I've had a lot of people over the years who will have this concern initially when they're working with this, that, oh, well, what if I see someone who's really a negative person, they're really unhappy, they're miserable, whatever, and I pick up their energy.
		I'm also picking up these emotions.
		It does not have to be.
		You can recognize eventually, if you'll test it, that this is actually a projection that you're adding to your perception.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but let me jump in with a pedestrian question based on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you should absorb or suck some negative energy from an individual, in what manner would that affect you directly?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		I would suggest that there isn't any.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		I would suggest that we make it positive or negative by assigning to it our own thought forms, if you will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, but assuming the person is projecting thought forms that are negative, then there's negative energy.
		And if you should happen to absorb that instead of the positive stuff, do you become, in turn, negative or feel negative as a result of that?
		Like, ooh, bad blood.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Let's give an example that probably will make it a little clearer, and I'll try to answer that.
		If you are encountering someone who is, as you say, behaving in a negative way, they're shouting at you, they're calling you names, they're threatening you, you will have a reaction.
		You will have a reaction.
		Now, if you're going to assume that when you're absorbing the energy that is being radiated out of their body, that that is carrying that communication, what you're really doing is you are adding to the akasha, to the life force which is coming to you, the assumption that this is also affecting you.
		It really comes down to the real question is how do you deal with people who behave in that way?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then would you say there is no bad energy?
		It's not good or bad in that sense.
		It's just energy, and so it wouldn't matter.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		But it can carry the force of thought and will and emotion and make it easier to pick up on those things.
		People who practice this usually become quite sensitive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Nemo.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Is this Sapphire?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Sapphire.
unidentified		Actually, I am very familiar with Nemo and the Vampire Temple.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you are?
unidentified		Yes, I am.
unidentified		I am actually a member of the Vampire Community.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are?
unidentified		I would rather disrefute some of the things he's saying.
		You would?
		Yes, I'm pretty sure Nemo might know me or not, but...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here it comes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, go ahead.
unidentified		i was wondering if you'd like to discuss his affiliations with the vampire church the church of satan the old business cards decoder rings uh...
unidentified		and a few other things you buy off the site and currently still can under the emporium sections and also i kind of want to dispute the facts he makes about Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So how about that?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		All right.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		First of all, I am a member also of the Church of Satan, which I became familiar with about, oh, I guess that was about 15 years ago.
unidentified		You are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You didn't tell me that.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, not a problem.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		And I'll add that I have joined many organizations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You could have put it in your resume, you know.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I didn't realize that would be very critical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pretty interesting, though.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		However, I should be very clear that the majority, the vast majority of the people who belong to the temple are not involved with that particular religion at all.
		I'm just an exception to the rule, fundamentally.
		Our webmaster is a part of that, and the emporium that she's referring to is at the Church of Satan website, which does carry a couple of items that are related to the temple or has in the past.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pretty creepy, anyway.
		I appreciate you bringing it up, ma'am.
		And what else was there?
unidentified		Well, another thing I wanted to, I remember this site when it first started.
		We're in the very early versions of the site.
		I've been involved in the vampire community for a number of years.
		I'm affiliated with a larger websites out there, and some of the largest supporters and resource providers, such as sanguinareus.org.
		a few of those, like I mentioned, are the actually vampire church is not actually a church, but kind of like a haven resource.
		And most of the things regarding vampires aren't really...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're at the bottom of the hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to hold you over, all right?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You stay right there.
		Two vampires online now, Nemo and my caller.
		This should be intensely interesting as there appears to be some sort of schism in vampirism.
		I'm Mark Down.
		Well, there's schisms in most religions, so I suppose why not here, too?
		Oh, I've got to ask the light question, don't I?
		Into the light.
		Vampires are not supposed to go into the light.
unidentified		Find out more about tonight's guest.
		Log on to coasttocoastam.com.
		But nothing but the color of the lights that shine.
		Electrously so fine.
		Look and try your eyes.
		On a winter's day in the rain.
		Wander than a golden cage alone.
		The leaves blow across the long black road.
		To the darkened sky.
		In its rage.
		But the white bird.
		Just sits in her cage.
		Unknown.
		Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255 East of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033 First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222 And the Wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295 To rechart on the toll-free international line,
		call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Arpell from the Kingdom of Nigh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rarely do you get the opportunity to interview a real vampire.
		He's here by dispensation, special dispensation, this morning.
		His name is Nemo.
		Vampires just generally don't do interviews, not the real ones, and this obviously is a real vampire.
		So, it's your opportunity to ask a question.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		In a moment, we will continue the Inquisition.
		We have one vampire here, Nemo, and what are the odds of that?
		Well, here he is, but then you have two vampires in the same program.
		The odds of that are just unreasonable, completely young lady, welcome back.
		Thank you.
		Continue, please.
unidentified		Well, I'm familiar with this.
		I'm familiar with the organization.
		I've seen it on the web for a long time, and I've read a lot of the articles.
		One of the things I've seen I know is a reprint from the book itself is, I believe, their tome or kind of a codex in a way.
		Basically, it's called their Vampire Creed.
		I am a vampire.
		I worship my ego and I worship my life, for I am the only God that is.
		And the more I've researched on this organization and the history of it, it's very more cultish than anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was going to mention the word cult.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, even some almost mainstream religions, until they actually get to be mainstream, they're called cults.
unidentified		And most of the things you talk about, I mean, they're not even really vampirism itself.
unidentified		And I mean, for those of me who've been around the vampire community and really know what it is, other than it's not a religion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you are a vampire.
		You're claiming this, right?
		All right.
		In what way do you see yourself differently than Nemo has described himself?
unidentified		Well, some of the things he describes are untrue.
		The need for energy is very much an issue with vampirism.
		But the need for energy can take on many forms and it can be obtained in many forms.
		One of the things I do note that they dispute is the sanguinarian version of it or sanguinism version of blood drinking.
		And has often referred to those who do consume blood to be psychos.
		And in many truths, it's not.
		Blood drinking is a worldwide cultural thing that has been known for thousands of years, been in many cultures, it's around the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're a blood drinker?
unidentified		I actually do both.
		I can consume energy and I can consume blood.
		And I have blood said before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So here, Nemo, we would seem to have a more traditional vampire.
unidentified		But it's not like, oh, I'm going to go out and suck someone in the neck or attack them in the middle of the night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, where else do you get it?
unidentified		Vampire is real life, modern-day vampirism, actually requires someone who views themselves as a vampire and a donor.
unidentified		Most vampires use screen donors who will undergo blood testing, HIV screening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These days you've got to be careful, yeah.
unidentified		I mean, this is a day and age.
		We know HIV exists.
		We know that, and it's not an age of myth and fantasy.
		But blood in itself is a physical form, and it's normally different than when you consume anything else you eat.
		However, most have found that when they consume blood, they are able to draw energy more directly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what about it, Nemo?
		I mean, you're on the cleaner side of things here from some people's point of view.
		She's saying, look here, there is something to the drinking of blood.
		You apparently know this.
		Is this a schism within vampirism?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Well, the thing is, is that we have stated over and over that within lies fact and fancy, truth and metaphor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Discriminate with care.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		This is built from the beginning to the end of what we do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		We have three.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somebody's got on a radio.
		Whoever it is, turn it off, please.
		It's important you do, or I can't continue.
		Turn off your radio.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Not on my side.
unidentified		I'm sorry.
unidentified		I advise you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fine.
		Just keep your radio off, dear.
		All right.
		Go ahead, Anima.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		We have what we call temple law.
		It's at the website.
		And what we say is that there are three things that we forbid our members to do.
		And these are the only things that we ask them to please not do.
		One is drink no physical blood.
		The second is perform no criminal act.
		And third, to not deny the temple's authority.
		We view the many people who apparently have blood desires and fetishes and disease patterns.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As weird, huh?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Well, what we look at is we say, you know, they kind of missed what we see to be reality from our own experience.
		It doesn't mean that it's necessarily wrong.
		So far, it has still remained legal.
		I can see where down the road it'll probably become illegal.
		It'll only require some nutcase somewhere who will drink the blood out of the person they murder, and then laws will come down.
		So we looked in advance to that and said, let's be clear.
		Let's not confuse the reality with the metaphor.
		Now, that doesn't mean that other people have to...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He has just said, young lady, that what you're referring to is just metaphor, that it's not the real McCoy, but yet you're saying it is.
unidentified		I mean, the Empire is, but it has nothing to do with religion itself.
		I mean, those who do drink the blood and have the energy, they awaken to this very young in their lives, oftentimes, don't realize what it is.
		And it's something very natural you're born with.
		If you think about it from a biological perspective, when you're in the womb, how do you first get your nourishment from your mother?
		It comes in through the bloodline.
		You're attached to the uterine wall, and you're getting all your nutrients through blood.
		Blood contains chemicals, nutrients, everything else your body needs.
		It passes through.
		Drinking it is one form.
		Not everyone will drink blood.
		Some will do it, as you say, it's using energy.
		Some of it is draining other people in large crowds.
		Some actually will drain donors directly energy-wise.
		It takes some concentration, but it is a common practice, and it is very well known.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You need to get hold of me privately.
		Can you do that?
		Sure.
		I give my email address on the air, so you contact me privately, aren't I?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I'll look forward to getting an email from you.
		Thank you.
		So, Nemo, you were trying to be polite, but I mean, would you put her in the class of a mental defect?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		No, no, I can't say that.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		I don't know her well enough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, but it sounds like that's what you're saying of all those who drink blood.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		I think that of people who are attracted to the vampire mythos, that there are some who have the potential to actually do that, and that they basically confuse, as I said before, the reality with the symbolism.
		These are the people you were talking about, Hollywood.
		I would say they're the ones who missed the boat.
		That doesn't mean that it's permanent, but let's be quite straightforward, that's not exactly a very acceptable practice in polite company.
		So it's highly sexually charged.
		There's a lot of blood fetish issues that are attached to that, and we just simply wanted to be very clear from the beginning that this religion has nothing to do with that.
		She did say one thing that I think is perhaps relatively valid.
		It is possible to draw in life force when a person might be drinking blood from someone, but also from having a handshake, from having a close experience with them, from being in the same area.
		There's many, many ways to do that.
		That is probably the major thing.
		We do not permit people to drink liquid human blood in the Temple of the Vampire.
		It is just simply because it is not necessary.
		And I'm not really qualified, but I have read people who dispute the nutritional value.
		That's about the best I can do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All righty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Nemo.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Ron, Colin from Savoy, Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Ron.
unidentified		Hello.
		I have two questions to Nemo.
		Okay, Nemo, you've mentioned, this is question number one, that you can draw energy from humans and animals.
		Can you draw energy from, let's say, trees and plants?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do believe that is possible, Ron.
		And part of the issue is that the energy which comes through the human body is highly condensed, and it's also in parallel with our own.
		The morphogenic shape that surrounds the human body that helps to maintain physical reality of the body matches our own.
		The further you move away from a human being, the less that you're easily able to relate to that.
		After all, pranayama from the different yogic practices is just another version of working with life force, and commonly yogis will work with simply drawing it in from the atmosphere.
		This requires a tremendous amount of work, though, years and years.
		When a person who has the sensitivity to feel it does it with a human being, they absorb some of the human energy, things are entirely different.
		I might mention also that with the yogic approaches, there's so much attention paid to being in the presence of a master, having darshan.
		And that is probably because they are finally tapping into human life force, which is more powerful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, and you could also take from plants or any living thing.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Energy is energy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, energy is energy.
		What about the old light thing?
		Is there anything about that?
		There's probably not.
		I'm sure it's part of the old myth, right?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Oh, do you mean about vampires can't be in sunlight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the aversion to sunlight.
		Is there anything to that?
		I mean, sometimes myths have little particles of reality in their base somewhere way back there.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		It does seem that when people are working with out-of-body experience, initially, that there is a large problem with electromagnetic forces in their presence, which can cause difficulty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Consequently, many people have reported difficulty.
		I've seen it myself when I was first working with this.
		That being in sunlight, it's rather more difficult.
		But it is something that you can rise beyond so that it's no longer an influence.
		So I would say that it does have an influence, and that's probably where some of this came from.
		But although I don't prefer to get suntans, skin cancer is something to be avoided.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You remind me of some spokespeople I had from NASA once.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They could say things, and they sounded extremely reasonable, as you do, but I just have this feeling that, Nemo, you're leaving some parts out.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Don't think so.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		There are things I would like to add, but I don't think there's any hidden knife here that I'm holding back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, uh-huh.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		I mean, there are issues that I could go into detail Concerning what we do, attitudes, procedures, etc.
		However, I don't think I'm just trying to think.
		Is there something here that I'm hiding from Art Bell and his audience?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's hidden stuff in all religions.
		I mean, the Vatican has, you know, catacombs of stuff.
		And anyway, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Nemo.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, question.
		Why would people really want to, like, you're talking about being a vampire?
		Would that include immortality, living forever?
		But question is, why would someone want to live forever if you're going to sit there and watch your loved ones die on you?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that is one of the drawbacks.
		And there are two things to be taken into account, in my opinion.
		This is an excellent question.
		Even if there are younger people listening who have not had someone that they know as an adult pass away, most people have had pets, cats, dogs, and that can be very difficult.
		The answer, in my opinion, is, first of all, that it is painful to have anything go wrong.
		However, the people who are drawn to following this path and to embrace, to literally say, I'm not going to be a spiritual tourist.
		I'm going to commit to life on earth.
		I'm going to be here.
		I'm going to remain conscious.
		I'm going to build my memories.
		I'm going to try to acquire knowledge about the way things are.
		And I'm going to assume that the glass is half full instead of half empty.
		Now that means that there will be things that will come that are tragic.
		But there will also be new things.
		The fact that we're speaking on a telephone 150 years ago, impossible.
		100 years ago, no radio.
		Look at the things that are on the internet.
		There are so many amazing and wonderful things that are coming to us that it's as if for the first time in human history we're just getting the sense that the curtain is about to rise on the real show.
		It's a shame when people give up before they have their opportunity to be there.
		I would just say to anyone who's even feasibly considering staying around to do so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you said, well, gee, let me think.
		Is there anything I'm not telling Art Bell?
		Well, you are a member of the Church of Satan.
		Now, many in the audience would think of Satan as the great liar, the great master, oh, untruth and negative things and all the rest of it.
		So, well, think again.
		Is there anything you're not telling, anything else you're not telling me, Pal?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		I should mention just briefly, because one of the reasons I did not make a point out of the fact that I happen to personally be a member of the Church of Satan, I had the pleasure to meet Anton Levey, who founded that church before his death.
		I met him back in around 1986.
		And it was really remarkable.
		reason i got to meet him was because many of the things that he put together in building his religion parallel things that i knew to be correct uh...
		he was very much uh...
		not a He used that fundamentally in order to shock people, to get their attention, and because he thought it was fun.
		Very brilliant man, an excellent musician.
		I was delighted to know him, and I have many friends who are in that.
		But quite frankly, people who actually investigate that particular organization discover that they also forbid criminal activity and basically are nice people if you get to know the people who are really there.
		I have belonged to other organizations of many different kinds.
		I have never belonged consciously, and I'm pretty sure still am not, a member of any criminal organizations.
		But I'm willing to go and look at anything in order to see if there's something valuable there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you a member of the Communist Party?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
		Okay.
		So there you are.
		You're not.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		The Temple does favor the concept of representational democracy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		Thinks that that was a very useful thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Wild Carline, you're on the air with Nemo.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
		How are you?
		This is the first time I've ever talked with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, welcome.
unidentified		Yeah, how are you?
		And Nemo, well, I've been listening to you all evening, and I want to know that Satan is a deceiver.
		And how he's coming in gentle as a lamb.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I just said that to him.
		And he has that, isn't he?
		He's gentle.
		He's obviously intellectual and smart and pretty damn smooth.
unidentified		Exactly.
		But you know, I've been, people have taken my energy without my permission and I didn't like it.
		But I know how I just would go back and take mine back.
		Wouldn't take any other because I said, no, I said, God want to take mine back.
		And if you're feeding off of people and that's the only way you get your energy, and you can't get it from God because you don't believe in him or worship him, isn't that sort of like you're feeding off other people and that's how you survive?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, of course that's it.
unidentified		Well, don't you find there's a dead end?
unidentified		I mean, like, after a while, you're just going to be feeding off one another, and then there won't be any, well, actually, there won't be any energy left because it'll be dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you weren't listening.
		Nemo said he only took the excess energy.
		That sounds a little political.
unidentified		That's a little different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
		It sounds a little like a political correct kind of thing to say.
		You know, that if he were taking all the energy, that's what I meant between reading between the lines and G-Art.
		Have I told you everything?
unidentified		Well, I wondered, why does he have to take any at all?
unidentified		Doesn't what he believes in fulfill him?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nemo?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		There's really two questions that I'm hearing.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		And one is under the assumption that when, for instance, you felt that someone was taking energy from you, prayed to God to have it returned to you?
unidentified		No, I didn't say that.
		I said I knew how to take it back because it was like a tentacle reaching out, you know, in the invisible realm.
		It just probably while I was off guard.
		Like a tentacle reaching out, I just kind of followed the trail back and said, give it back and let them know that don't do it.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		I would suggest that we are discussing two different things.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		What you are describing was actually an effect on your emotions And thoughts that you felt was being disturbed by another person, probably telepathically from your description, and that you rejected that invasion, if you will, or that attempt to manipulate you or draw away from you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounded like that.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		The energies that we work with are radiated.
		They are thrown off.
		They are not wanted by the person.
		Think about going to a rock and roll concert and all the energy that just radiates.
		That's going to go nowhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why let it be wasted like that?
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		That's fundamentally it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		The other item was you mentioned God, and I'm going to suggest that the enlightenment is breaking free of the illusion regarding this, that you are a separate self to begin with.
nemo the vampire ▲ ● ▼		The de-identification teaching from the temple rapidly allows the member to validate that the personal self is not really there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, Nemo, we're out of time.
		I can't control that.
		I wish I could.
		If I could, we wouldn't have turned the clock back like that.
		So I can't.
		And Nemo, thank you for being here.
		I've never interviewed a vampire before.
		And you have been great.
		Slippery-tongued a bit, but great.
		And so thank you for being here, and I'll probably have you back at another time.
		Thank you, Ark.
		I've got to go.
		Thank you, and take care.
		That's Nemo the vampire.
		And, you know, you must admit that he gave it more than lip service.
		I'm sorry.
		He really was pretty good.
unidentified		Silvery-tongued devil, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, listen.
unidentified		We'll be back tomorrow night unless the apocalypse happens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.

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