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Oct. 25, 2003 - Art Bell
03:34:46
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Paul Moller - Skycars & Vampires (classic)
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Time Text
♪♪♪ From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I
bid you all good evening, good morning, whatever the case may be, afternoon, I don't know, around the world, all
those time zones.
Here it is, the weekend, once again.
Isn't that nice?
I'm Art Bell, and this, of course, is Coast to Coast AM.
Gonna be a lot of fun this weekend.
A lot to talk about.
Actually, a lot of guests.
We're gonna do a special five-hour program tonight.
Why?
Because tonight we retrieve an extra hour from the cosmos.
That's right.
We get an hour back.
But oh, what a pain in the butt it is!
I wish to give my yearly rant for a moment against the insanity that is this changing of the time.
There's no modern logical reason for it.
And it's a pain in the butt, I've easily got 40, perhaps even 50 clocks if you count my automobiles, and... 40 or 50 clocks, and a few of them, yes, are atomic and set themselves, even though, with the perfect solar storm coming down, that may not happen.
I'm sorry I ran around like chicken with my head off earlier tonight, and did what I was doing, changed the clocks.
We must stop this madness, I tell you!
Pick up pen, pencil, go to your computer, write to your congressperson, your senator, tell them to stop the madness that is this time change twice a year.
Absolute, total madness.
There is, well, perhaps in the olden days where farmers, you know, had to, I don't know, work late in the fields or whatever the reason was.
And they talk about school children, but I mean, half the year they're in the dark anyway, so what's the big deal?
Why don't we just have one uniform time Across our nation, not actually one uniform time, but one time that doesn't change would be if Arizona does that.
A number of other states don't change their time.
It's ridiculous.
It's time-consuming, it's annoying, and there's no reason for it.
So write to somebody.
I don't care.
Write to a relative.
Complain.
Get the ball rolling.
Some politician out there could be our hero.
They could introduce a bill to stop the madness, stop the clocks from changing twice a year.
I hate it.
Anyway, listen, a couple of notes.
Dr. Paul Mahler is going to be here tonight.
And we're going to finally get an update on the Skycar, my dream car, no question about it.
We'll tell you all about it here in a few moments, and then a little later in the show, we'll change gears, to say the least, and we will interview a vampire.
Nemo is a living vampire.
That should be interesting, for a totality of five hours.
Now, this next coming Friday night, Saturday morning, I am honored, privileged to be here to host Ghost to Ghost, the annual Ghost to Ghost show.
Now, we're going to pull a slightly different trick.
I've done something like this in the past, but never before.
It's a very serious ghost program on Halloween.
Very serious, because I'm very serious about the topic, actually.
And it's entirely caller-driven.
There are a million ghost stories out there in big city, and what we want, of course, is the very best, the very scariest of them all.
And here's how, in part, we're going to do it this year.
While, of course, we will take calls from the larger, or the at-large, audience.
I wish you to do the following for me.
If you have a particularly dramatic, scary ghost story, I want you to write a very small synopsis, a paragraph or two will do.
And email it to me, along with your telephone number.
So when this next Friday in Ghost2Ghost begins, I may call you!
So what I'm going to do is pick the juiciest of them.
Although, you know, you never can tell.
Sometimes people who can write can't speak.
But nevertheless, give me a brief synopsis of your ghost story, and then give me your telephone number.
And on the night in question, be alert and be ready, because I may call you.
That'll be Ghost to Ghost this coming Friday night, Saturday morning.
And so if you want to get in on it, if you've got that very special story, Then include your telephone number in the email.
When you email me at Artbell at Minespring.com.
That's where I am.
Artbell, A-R-T-B-E-L-L, lowercase, at Minespring.com.
Now, of interest on the website right now, CoastToCoastAM.com, there is an article entitled, Artbell the Time Traveler, which is a website that just, you know, sort of showed up, which appears to blame me for the Cub's loss.
Remember when the Cubs lost?
Do you remember when the fan interfered?
Well, it would purport to show me in a time travel situation is actually responsible for the Cubs' loss.
It was pretty funny, so I said, yeah, I'll go ahead and put it up.
I don't know who did it.
Then there's a couple of interactive things up there.
A game, which is kind of fun, called the ESP game, which matches your ability to match somebody else's mind.
It's an interactive web kind of thing, and we've got that up on the website right now at coasttocoastam.com.
Now, we have one more interactive thing, though it certainly is not a game.
You remember the polar melting business?
Well, the man who did that for us, showing what has happened at the top of the world, in the Arctic, has done another version of it.
And this one's even better.
Interactive in the sense that you can go, there's a little slider here, and you can go from the slider at the bottom, from 1976, I believe, I'm still trying to get it loaded here, it's very slow, through now, 2003, and as you slide the slider across, you will note very quickly the profound, profound changes occurring in the Arctic.
As a result of whatever, you know, I don't even want to get into an argument about what it is.
Yes, in 1979, actually, through 2003, and just move that slider along and you will see the Arctic deteriorating before your eyes.
And for those of you that don't think there's a problem with the top of the world and the bottom of the world melting before our very eyes, as graphically depicted here, Well then, I don't know what kind of wake-up call you need.
So, interactive, but indeed not a game.
Briefly looking around the world...
In Baghdad, six to eight rockets struck the Al Rashid Hotel.
There were warnings of this early Sunday, where the U.S.
military and civilians stay.
It looks as though there are a number of injuries.
We don't know how many yet.
In Gaza City, Israeli forces retaliated Sunday for a deadly attack on militants on a nearby Jewish settlement.
Continuing the cycle, never-ending cycle in the Holy Land.
In San Bernardino at this hour, there's tragedy underway.
A wildfire, actually San Bernardino and also the Rancho Cucamonga area of California, where I have a very good friend at this hour, worried for her house and her town, but now the big fire appears to be in San, well they're both big, but the San Bernardino fire has already destroyed 200 homes, threatening thousands of others, forcing mass evacuations and I'm sorry to say the outlook in my opinion would not be good the winds blew in the desert here from the north northwest in the northwest at 10 to 25 miles an hour all day long today and these are the winds that compress as they go over the mountains and then become what are called the Santa Ana's which are going to continue to blow through the weekend in the fire affected areas it's going to be
Well, is a real terror.
So good luck to everybody there.
You're going to need it with the winds coming the way they are.
The wild card Florida Marlins did it.
They have won the World Series.
And with that news, no doubt not very comforting to my friends in New York City listening to WABC.
There were a lot of dejected New Yorker faces for me to see earlier tonight.
Away we go, in a moment, to the sky.
Now, my dream has always been, along with time travel, flight.
I broke my arm trying to hang glide up in Alaska.
That was a terrible compound fracture.
It was awful.
So, I have always wanted to fly all my life.
Now, what I would like you to do, you've already got several reasons to be going to the website.
I'd like you to go to www.coasttocoastam.com, and on the right-hand side, upper right-hand corner, tonight's guest, Dr. Paul Mueller.
Just click on Mueller International, and when you do, You will see the M400 Skycar.
That is what we were about to talk about.
This is a private, I don't know, car-size Sky vehicle that will soon be taking you from point to point, kind of like the Jetsons in the Jetsons, if you will.
That's a very loose way to put it.
Now, this is a real thing.
This is not a dream.
Obviously, it was a dream.
Dr. Muller had a dream.
It's coming true.
Dr. Mahler is a founder, chairman of the board, and has served as the president of Mahler International since foundation in 1983.
Mahler International was formed to develop a powered lift aircraft called Skycar and other related technologies.
Dr. Mahler holds a master's in engineering, a Ph.D.
from McGill University, Professor of Mechanical and Aeronautical Engineering at the University of California.
Not a lightweight, obviously.
That's a University of California, Davis course.
From 1963 through 75 and 72, he founded Supertrap Industries.
Which became the most recognized international name in high-performance engine silencing systems.
Dr. Mueller has received 43 patents, including the first U.S.
patent on a fundamentally new form of power-lift aircraft.
And yet another on the revolutionary Rotopower engine.
In 1997, he created Freedom Motors to manufacture and distribute this engine.
in a moment, Dr. Mahler and the Skycar.
By the way, I gave woefully short shrift to what I called the perfect solar storm.
I actually was awake watching solar conditions when this incredible M5 or 6, whatever it was, flare developed at about 3 o'clock in the morning and I called some of my friends.
I was on the shortwave radio at the time and said, my God, look what's happening!
Holy moly!
So I have a lot more to say about this right now.
It's Skycar Time, and I hope you've had a chance to go up to the website and see this incredible vehicle.
Here is the man responsible, Dr. Paul Moller.
Doctor, welcome to the program.
Yes, thank you.
It's been how long?
Gosh, I had you on the air last, how long ago?
I think it's probably close to two years or more.
That's right.
At least two years.
And so, obviously, there's a great deal of new listeners to the program, and they won't have any idea at all about the Sky Car.
So not only do we have to do an update tonight, but I guess we have to, you know, kind of go back to basics and tell people who are just tuning in tonight, what is this?
Well, the Sky Car is really a vehicle and aircraft, as we call it, that combines The helicopter can do with what the airplane can do.
Of course, an airplane needs a runway.
That's a great limitation.
A helicopter has a wonderful ability to take off vertically, but it can't fly very fast.
It's extremely difficult to fly, and it's quite dangerous because there's a lot of failures, all those mechanical parts whirling around.
So this does the function of both.
Plus, it's also roadable.
It's also legal.
I wouldn't say the highway as much as I would say the roadway, say, around the city to get from your home to a To a vertiport, a place to take off from, maybe a couple blocks away.
Earlier today, CNN was saying, now that the Concorde is gone, what is the future of air travel in the world?
Well, I don't know the answer for the large aircraft, but everybody should know the Skycar.
Well, the Skycar.
How big is it?
It's the size of a large automobile.
It'll fit in a single-car garage.
It's a four-passenger vehicle.
We also built a six-passenger vehicle, but that one would not fit in your garage.
It's a little bigger than that.
But the four-passenger would be about like the average American... It would be like a large American car.
A large American car.
Correct.
Okay.
The one that I first came to when I clicked on Mahler Industries was the M400.
Is that the current... That's the one we're test flying right now, yes.
That's the one that Would certainly be the first one that someone would be able to buy within the next few years.
Within the next few years.
Well, that's what, of course, everybody's going to want to know about.
But I'd like to... When I go to buy a product in electronics or something, I always go to the page that shows me what it'll do.
What's the performance going to be?
What are the statistics on the Skycar?
What do we know?
Well, it flies fast because, and one of the reasons you can fly fast, of course, is that you end up having to have quite a bit of power when you take off vertically.
We always compare it to Hummingbird, which has a pretty high metabolism rate for a good reason.
It takes off vertically with significant power, and then, of course, that same power can be used to fly quite fast.
So you can fly at 325 miles an hour at 25,000 feet, or you can fly at a couple hundred miles
an hour at sea level.
You can fly fast at sea level, but you'd be like burning your tank of fuel quite quickly.
What about its maneuverability characteristics?
You know, I mean, we're talking here about, I guess, about the general public doing this, right?
I mean, this is something you're going to want to offer to the general public eventually, at least, right?
Right, right.
Yeah, well, there's many stages.
The first stage, this would be a vehicle that would compete with helicopters and airplanes today.
But this vehicle is a vehicle.
It's pretty electronic in every sense of the word.
It has all the electronic brains on board to fly itself, which it has done a number of times.
And therefore, you really can think of it in the future, in the perhaps five year, 10 year period where you will be delivered in this vehicle from point A to point B. I know the pilots aren't going to like that.
But really, if you're going to be up in the air, you certainly don't want some drunk flyer.
incapacitated perhaps alcohol or something of that nature uh... flying around out there in the same world that you're
in so you're you're really gonna wanted to be automated and that's the
way it's going to be
yeah i if i recall correctly uh... you rely heavily on automation as in you
just get into the vehicle i suppose tap out some how would you enter the destination
How do you envision that occurring, for example?
Every city or area will be coded in some way, and we haven't set up a code, but that's something that would be fairly straightforward.
The more complicated issue, of course, is generating this virtual highway in the sky, which is...
Which is a long story, and I'm certainly going to be happy to tell you a little bit about it, but it's an interesting story of what's happening with regard to the highway in the sky.
Well, as it is now, Doctor, you know, controllers, air traffic controllers, are always on the edge of a heart attack.
And that's just with the commercial aircraft that we have in the sky.
You know, they're directing them and pushing aluminum, I think they call it, or whatever.
Anyway, it's a pretty high-stress, high-energy job just for the commercial aircraft.
But what if we had, I don't know, hundreds of thousands, millions of Skycars in the air?
How in the world?
Well, the problem today is that the world, the airspace is really chaos.
It's really not organized.
If you fly a light plane today, You better be looking left, right, and center.
Yes.
Because it's visual rules, and you know, you're supposed to decide if somebody's out there who may be crossing your path.
As you said, these air controllers are working so hard, you really can't count on them for the small planes.
Periodically, of course, small planes run into big planes.
No.
But it's a chaotic world, but that's changing.
We have incredible technology coming down right now.
Of course, we're all familiar with GPS, the thing that guides your car around and tells you where you are.
Just recently, they put in a geostationary set of satellites that re-calibrates GPS so that you get accuracy within a very few feet.
And then beyond that, they just issued a contract for what they call LAS, local augmentation systems for airspace, where you'll be able to know where every aircraft is within inches at all times.
This is done automatically.
You don't have to worry about the air controller not looking in your direction on the screen at the right time.
So, the air controllers, do you still think, by the time the Skycar is airborne in large numbers, that air traffic controllers will have the same job, or will commercial aircraft be controlled in the same way?
They'll be controlled in the same way.
In fact, the purpose for this system, clearly, they're not building it right now for the Skycar, because for most of them, they don't know the Skycar exists.
But they are building it for the commercial airliners because this will make them much more efficient.
They can go from point A to point B very accurately at all times because they don't have to worry about other aircraft
in the air.
You'll always know where they are. You'll have all kinds of warning systems.
They're going to have a big buffer space around each aircraft so that you run into somebody else's buffer space.
You know about it. You don't run into the aircraft.
This would be a typical, like a family car, right?
It would be like a family car.
It has all of the characteristics of the family car.
And of course, the one advantage it has is that it really gets into a world that is essentially unused today.
It may be chaotic, but think if it was organized, how much space there is up there.
I've always been willing to point out that if you put all the cars on the road in America, at the same time, they'd still be miles apart.
If you used all of the airspace above us.
And had them all proportionately away from each other.
Or organized in a coherent way along a highway in the sky.
Gotcha.
All right, Doctor.
Hold on.
We're here at the bottom of the hour.
Dr. Paul Mahler is here, and he is manufacturing, testing now, the Skycar.
We'll tell you all about that.
A personal vehicle to travel from here to there, 300 plus miles an hour.
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I'm sure as soon as he could walk, he thought about flying.
operator and have them dial 800-893-0903. This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on
the Premier Radio Network. I suspect the dream of flight is nearly as old as man himself.
I'm sure as soon as he could walk, he thought about flying.
He looked up and saw the blue sky and said, aw, wouldn't it be nice?
Well, it will be, and it's going to be real soon, too.
The Sky Car.
Take a look.
It's on the website at www.coasttocoastam.com.
Just click on tonight's guest.
Let me get it exactly for you, because I really do want you to see it.
get quick on mauler international upper right hand corner and you'll get to see
the model that we're talking about
right now these days if you
if you go to buy an automobile new car you're probably gonna spend i don't know
twenty or thirty grand uh... for a pretty good car and fifty or better for a
really good car easily And so, that jumps out at me.
Doctor, in production, once in production with the Skycar, what do you envision the price might be?
Well, of course, you know, it's very unique to talk about aircraft and high production because it never happened.
So we're doing a lot of projecting here.
But one of the things that we started out with in this company was to produce an extremely low cost engine, because we knew if you're going to have a lot of power, that you're going to have to produce it cheap if you're going to produce the car inexpensively.
And that was a goal of ours set back Almost 30 years ago now.
You were looking at the Wankel engine, weren't you?
That's right, because it was the only thing that was out there that had a large amount of power in a small package, and was still inexpensive.
So we developed the engine, and that meant that the price of the vehicle could be down at the cost of one automobile, because the engine price is comparable to that of one automobile.
Now again, for the moment, we'd say a quality automobile, but Anything below $50,000 would be very hard for us to project because it would depend on huge numbers of vehicles.
So it might be like what?
Buying a Mercedes, say?
Yeah, depending on the model, $50,000.
One of the things that people don't understand, though, is that if you buy an airplane, for the most part, there's a small depreciation at the beginning, but historically, aircraft prices have remained pretty level.
So there's an average depreciation of about 2% per year, where a car depreciates at 10%.
So the actual real price, the dollar that it costs you over a period of time is much less even if you pay $50,000.
It's probably equivalent to more like 20,000 in terms of actual depreciated costs.
What about places that you could land the Skycar?
I mean, do you envision a situation where you could, I don't know, I have a friend in Rancho Cucamonga I mentioned earlier.
Could I enter Rancho Cucamonga and Joanne's coordinates, let's say, on the GPS system and say you're going to land here and it will?
It would do that.
You might, for the moment at least, get a few people upset because it's still not as quiet as your family Cadillac, but it will be.
We are working on mutual noise technology that will bring it down to a level where it would be comparable to your car.
That's a few years away and a few million dollars, but it is possible to land it anywhere.
It does still generate a wind.
That's unavoidable.
So you really, unless you're going to clean your neighbor's yard and a few other yards nearby, you probably would prefer to land on a roof.
As much wind as your average helicopter?
Yeah, comparable, but that's a significant amount of wind, of course.
It is, but heck, they land out here near my house all the time.
Yeah, I'm thinking right in the middle of a residential area, but yes, if you've got a little bit of space, you've got a de-sized yard.
A rural area, somewhat, wouldn't be a problem.
All right.
Everybody's going to wonder about stability, and I'm sure that's at the top of your list, too.
In designing and now building this, what stability problems have you run into, and where are you in the world of stability?
Well, that was an expensive solution for us, because it took a lot of time to design a system and generate the algorithms to make this vehicle behave better than a human.
Of course, one of the reasons you can fly better than a human is because a computer is faster, not necessarily smarter.
We don't even need to be that smart.
We just needed to be very fast.
And so we have on board 25 microprocessors working together, you know, about 30,000 lines of code, a highly redundant system, though, so that if one system out of four fails, the other one takes over.
If that fails, another one takes over.
And you have different people write the software so that if There's a software error like Microsoft seems to have almost continuously in their systems.
You have a backup system written by a different group of people.
Yes, so lots of backup.
And it would be, as a result of the software driving the engines, it would be how stable?
Very stable.
We have flown this in windy conditions.
We've built a number of very small versions of this which are more difficult, in fact, to fly stably than big vehicles.
And we've delivered them to the military, and these vehicles will hang in the air.
You'd think they were anchored to a post, actually.
They're that stable, even in windy conditions.
So, yes, we've solved the stability problem.
That was really critical, of course, because if your grandmother's going to fly this thing or fly in it, you certainly want it to be...
Comfortable.
Well, I know one of the reasons you didn't come on the show at an earlier date was because you wanted to get some test flights under your belt.
That's correct.
And I guess you've done that, haven't you?
Yes, yes.
We've been flying it for almost a year now.
So far we haven't put a pilot in it.
We've been flying it remotely because that's our typical startup mode.
We can learn everything we want and actually to fly it remotely is actually more difficult than having someone in it.
But we're getting ready to do a test with a pilot on board as we put more powerful engines in place.
So you're close to that now?
Yes, we're expecting, we're actually building a lake, a test lake, for purposes of a little bit softer landing if something goes wrong.
So we've got a five acre lake under construction that would allow us to fly over it.
And there's a lot of other reasons too, of course, if you go into a lake you don't have near the fire hazard and many other things.
This is a fairly dangerous activity when you're starting out, of course.
Of course.
So, four average people, or four people, would be able to get into this model, punch some buttons, and at 300 plus miles an hour, go to wherever they want to go.
What about fuel, Doctor?
Well, we're running with alcohol right now.
Alcohol.
This is sort of a politically correct thing to do, perhaps, in today's world.
More important than that, alcohol is a much safer fuel.
If you again have something go wrong in your test flight program, you may become a small
ball of fire, but you won't become a big one.
Does alcohol have the same sort of combustion rate as gasoline, for example?
Do you get enough power?
It works in the engine about the same as high octane gasoline.
Oh really?
You don't get quite the range out of it, but it actually has an octane rating well over 100.
Rather than your car which runs around now at about 90.
So it's a good fuel and of course it burns without any of the Unburned hydrocarbons and the carbon monoxides that you normally would have.
Another obvious question is range.
And so what do you envision, not so much what you have right now, but what do you envision for, say, the M400 if it were actually in production?
What sort of range would it have?
Well, the maximum range is 750 miles.
You could certainly fly further than that if you weren't fully loaded with four full people and baggage.
We have to quote, you know, when you quote these numbers, you have to quote it for the full all up weight.
So it's 750 miles.
If you had two people on board, you could fly twice that, more than twice that.
That's right.
Airplanes and things that fly are very dependent on weight, aren't they?
That's for sure.
And that's that's one of the things that's happened.
It's made the Skycar possible.
We have to give a lot of credit to technology.
We've done a number of things and invented a number of things to make it work.
But new materials, I have made it very much more practical today.
These high-strength carbon fibers, which we use extensively, high-strength magnesium and aluminum.
There's even some new materials coming down that we're very excited about that are even better than what we're using at the moment.
You're going to stick with the rotary engine.
Does it look that way?
Absolutely.
We don't have an option.
Turbine engines would certainly deliver the power, but only the very rich could ever afford this vehicle, even 20 years from now.
So it really has to be the rotary.
It's the only engine that has the power, the reliability, and the multi-fuel capability, the ability to burn any kind of fuel.
If this engine is so good, Doctor, why was it in the Mazda for a little while, and then it really didn't catch on, and it sort of fell away?
I had a rotary engine Mazda.
I loved it.
Well, you ought to be happy it's coming back.
The RX-8's coming back.
It's got about 25% better mileage, which the original ones did not have.
So there's an enormous improvement, but it is not necessarily the ideal engine for the automobile, although it's extremely smooth, as I'm sure you experience.
Oh, sure.
It's ideal because it's fully dynamically balanced, like the turbine engine, because it's all rotating mass.
It's not a piston stopping and starting.
Doctor, have you noticed that the rotary engine produces a magnetic field?
Well, I would think any rotating mask could very well do such.
We haven't actually made any determination for that, but I'm sure it would be an easy thing to do.
It actually does.
As I said, I had a Mazda, and it had a rotary engine.
I had, you know, one of those compasses like everybody has up on the dashboard.
Right.
And it permanently fixed that compass in one direction right at the engine.
So there is a magnetic field there.
It's kind of interesting.
I'm not surprised.
Okay, so...
You know, people should know that you're past the dream stage on this.
I mean, you're actually, this thing is built, folks, and they're testing it.
It's been a little slow coming because it turned out to be, obviously, like most technologies, a lot more complicated to work out a few what would have thought of as simple bugs, but they turned out to be a couple years apiece to solve.
But we have, yes, we have flown As you know, an earlier version very successfully.
It was not nearly a fast vehicle.
It was a two-passenger, Jetson-looking type vehicle.
We flew that in 1989 for the international press.
So we've been flying IB on-board aircraft in the air, 100 feet in the air with previous vehicles.
So it's been around for quite a while.
We're just moving towards a much more practical version, one that, you know, goes very fast, which is, I think, important in today's travel.
Well, sure it is, but wait a minute, back up a little bit.
You say you were actually on board one of these yourself?
I didn't know that.
Oh, yes.
In 1989, I flew a vehicle that looks just like the Jetsons vehicle, a bubble-domed two-passenger vehicle, and everybody was there from Good Morning America to, you know, all of the Hollywood magazines and People Magazine was there and did an extensive article on it.
So yeah, we had a very, very successful flight in 89, but the vehicle was not really a vehicle that was designed to go quite quickly.
It was about a 100 mile an hour vehicle, which may seem fast enough for a lot of people, but you burn the same amount of fuel with this designed at 100 miles an hour as you do at 300 miles an hour.
Oh, really?
It becomes a lot more practical at 300 miles an hour.
Alright, going further, you are about to do a flight, I guess, for the press in the spring, this coming spring, is that correct?
That is our intention, right.
We actually, we cannot start construction of the lake until April because of the erosion issues in the rainy season, but as soon as that's complete, and we figure that's like a month, a month and a half, Then we would be in a position to start test flying before the press.
Prior to that, of course, we'll be flying privately.
What do you anticipate they will see?
I mean, what are you going to show them when they get there?
Well, we will take off vertically.
I'm tethered.
I will fly over this area, hover, stop, turn, twist, move around.
Very quickly, but not so quickly that I move off the lake at least during that period of time when the press is around.
And you'll be actually piloting the vehicle yourself?
I will, but you know, using the term piloting is a little strange in a power lift aircraft because it is so easy to fly.
I'm not a trained pilot.
I've been a test pilot since the beginning of these flights.
And I don't consider myself skilled at all, and yet it's so simple to fly.
How?
I mean, what do you have in front of you?
Are you using a joystick?
I have a joystick, and that's really everything.
Really?
No foot pedals.
You have a stick.
If you turn it, you turn in that direction.
If you point it forward, you go forward.
On the left-hand side, you have a throttle, which you can set at some setting that you want, that you're comfortable with.
And then with the stick in your hand on the right-hand side, You can move it backwards to brake, forward to accelerate, left, right to turn.
All right, this is a vertical takeoff and landing craft.
Now, in the picture of the M400, it's not obvious to the layman how the vertical part of it takes place.
These look like, I don't know, jet engines, sort of.
They do, don't they?
Yes.
Well, the ducts, these nacelles, most of the technology in this business comes from France, so it's a little confusing, but the nacelles, the ducts, so to speak, Rotate through a small angle of about 30 to 45 degrees, and then the exit from the ducts is deflected downwards another 45 degrees, and that gets the air flowing vertically.
And then as you go forward, the ducts then go back to the horizontal direction, and then as you go even faster, then the veins pull up and they go into the horizontal direction.
So you convert from diverting the thrust, not Not very different from the jump jet, the Harrier jump jet.
Well, I was going to ask if this technology was developed from the Harrier.
No, it is a totally different path.
But if there's any similar vehicles in the world out there today, you certainly would have to say, well, this one does divert the exhaust on the jet engine, just like we diverted in the Ducks.
The principles involved, the physics involved is quite different.
Well, when you look at the military version of the Harrier, what's the safety record of the Harrier like?
Well, today, it's really quite good.
But at the beginning, they were losing 5% of their pilots per year.
Right.
A very dangerous vehicle.
And even today, if you think about it, it only has one engine.
If that engine skips a beat, you have no pilot or plane during the hover mode.
So it's still one where they don't hover very long.
If you notice, you don't see a jump jet hovering for more than a few seconds and it's gone because it's a very dangerous time for that vehicle.
But that would not be true of the Skycar because of the reduction in the number of engines.
Multi-engines, multi-computers, multi-parachutes.
Everything that you can put into a vehicle to ensure that there's nothing that can fail.
Wait a minute, there's a parachute?
We have both low and high-speed parachutes.
These we don't want to argue that they ever would be needed, but certainly they give a sense of comfort to the individual when he perhaps is buying this for the first time.
It may be necessary in the test flight mode, where of course a lot of things could go wrong, but we do have two parachutes.
We even have redundancies in the parachutes.
They just recently, in the last few years, began putting parachutes on small airplanes, and it saved quite a few lives, I believe, already.
So, it's a pretty good idea, I guess.
After all, if something goes wrong at 20,000 feet or so, that's going to be your only hope, I suppose, but you're suggesting this is going to be so safe, inherently, that you really don't expect that to occur.
No, I think it's important during the test flight program, but I think in terms of normal practice, it'll never be really required.
Boeing did an extensive study of the vehicle and to their satisfaction said that in their opinion the vehicle was far more reliable than a 777 and that's coming from their own design.
So I think that we have really provided a vehicle that should be as foolproof as is possible.
All right, this coming year, you expect to build some Skycars.
Why?
It says on order here, but I don't know what that means.
Does that mean that I could call you a doctor and order a Skycar, or does that mean the military has to call and order one, or what?
Well, we already have a number of orders, well over 100 orders with deposits.
They wouldn't be delivered until it was certified, for the most part.
We are talking to the military.
They have a serious interest in a vehicle like this.
We're also looking for a production partner because I'm a relatively small company.
My company's a technology driven company.
And for this to be something that everybody's going to have, you're going to have to get in into a relationship with a General Electric, General Motors.
And we've talked to some of the major automotive companies.
So I think eventually, you'll see one of the bigger companies being involved in the high Long in production, but for the moment, we'll produce it ourselves.
How do they feel about you?
How does GM, for example, feel about you?
Do you know?
Well, I don't know about GM.
Ford did invite me to their executive committee meeting, and we had a multi-day meeting, and it was very well received.
I don't know that they're ready to give me a few million dollars to build vehicles for them, but they certainly were researching the use of such a vehicle.
I thought it was a very good reception.
We've talked to BMW.
We've talked to Honda.
We've never talked to General Motors or Chrysler.
I see.
But Ford liked the idea.
Well, they were being very, you know, very much looking at the future.
There were five of us invited to this technology panel.
And Bert Rutan, for example, you know, you've certainly heard of him.
Of course.
Around the world, he was one of the panelists there.
Oh, really?
And with some very modern ideas as well.
So they were looking at, you know, what could happen That would change transportation.
And if it changes, how could they be a part of it?
You know they'd want to be a part of it.
Alright, hold tight, Doctor.
We'll be right back.
We're discussing the Mahler Skycar.
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The M400.
This is the one you want to look at.
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20,000 feet.
The computers are doing the work.
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It certainly is.
Jill in Easton, California writes, Hey Art, first heard about the Skycar when Mr. Kessler wrote about it in one of the Dirk Pitt novels.
In fact, he did give Mr. Mahler full credit.
He's our guest, Mr. Mahler.
Dr. Paul Mahler, actually.
He's invented the Skycar.
It's now in the testing stages.
It's the M400.
I'm telling you right now, it's the dream machine.
Go take a look at it on the website.
It's a personal flight vehicle, which will be transportation for our future.
And we're going to need that.
We'll be right back with Dr. Mahler.
Once again, Dr. Paul Mahler, it certainly is a dream machine, Dr.
A lot of questions from the audience coming in by computer.
For example, is a pilot's license going to be needed in the sense, you know, the same sense as Powell's license now?
Well, no.
Initially, you'd have what's called a ground school requirement because you're up in the air with a lot of people.
You've got to understand the rules of the air.
Normally a pilot's license today is a lot of skill that you have to have to fly it.
So that's eliminated.
The FAA actually has a pilot's license right now that you can get for the Skycar.
It's called a Powered Lift Pilot's License.
But it still would be similar to what you have to have today until the sky is organized.
You're going to have to know a lot about what's going on out there.
You're still going to have to be watching your back all the time.
But once this guy was organized, as you put it, I would presume nothing perhaps more complicated or just a little more complicated than a regular driver's license.
Well, I'd say less complicated because really all you've got to do is know the number system so you know to put in the number that you want to get to.
And again, I'm talking about a few years down the road.
You'll be flying around in this much sooner than that, of course.
Because the highway system will not be fully developed for at least somewhere between five and ten years.
Now what would you think the normal altitude, I'm bouncing questions from the computer here again, the normal altitude, cruising altitude for the SkyCar would be?
Well that would be a choice really on how far you're going.
If you were going from say where I live near Sacramento to San Francisco about 70 to 75 miles you would probably go up to about 5,000 feet.
If you're going from here to LA You'd go to about 20,000 feet.
The height is very much dependent on how far you want to go, because you have to climb up again and come back down, and so there's some economics involved in that.
Well, beyond about 12,000 or 13,000 feet, you've got to have a pressurized cabin or oxygen or something, or you're going to be a confused flyer, right?
You certainly will, yes.
Legally, you have to have either oxygen enrichment.
There's new systems that just enrich the oxygen in the cabin itself.
So you don't actually have to pressurize the vehicle or you pressurize the vehicle, one of the two.
What will you likely do?
Well, we're looking seriously at the enrichment because it makes the vehicle a little less complicated to design for all that pressure.
So if that's doable, we will do it.
If not, we will clearly go with the pressurization.
There is home-built aircraft you can buy today that are pressurized, so it's not insurmountable by any means.
Does putting a deposit on one of these right now mean that you'll get one of the first ones?
Yes, yes.
Depending on the size of the deposit, you could be one of the first 100, one of the first 200, or one of the first 300.
Most of the people right now are in the 100 to 200 because that's a modest deposit.
Yes, like how much?
that's twenty thousand dollars point thousand dollars uh...
or uh... that's you know that's too
consensus so fascinating on that you you're looking for partners
uh... obviously and you would like a i'd i'd assume uh... a big partner but if
the worst happens and you don't find a forward-looking prisoner company
to join in with you and you have to go it alone what's the worst case
scenario Well, what we would do then, pretty much what we did in the past, we developed a company called SuperTrap, which you mentioned earlier, where we sold many millions of dollars of product and eventually sold the company for many millions of dollars.
And that helped us through a number of years.
Right now we've got an engine that is in such high demand that we have letters of intent for almost a billion dollars in those engines.
So we've got a couple partners right now just starting production of the engines.
And if nothing else, the engines will fund the Skycar.
And after all, we need the engine for the Skycar in any case.
Again, noise is something of an issue right now.
And you imagine that the Skycar would, for example then, land on somebody's flat roof.
I think you're going to see a lot of flat roofs in the future.
A lot of flat roofs.
Okay, well, I guess then the person or persons who are in the Skycar, because the computer is virtually going to be doing everything, could sit and watch, I don't know, a movie.
Oh, absolutely.
You could play computer games on the screen, because of course there's flying screens that give you a lot of information about navigation, where you are on your trip, and things like that.
You can switch it over and make it into anything you want.
You can sleep.
You can read.
You would be able to be much more productive while you traveled.
And, of course, you'd be traveling much less today.
In America, we waste about 15 billion hours per year stuck in traffic or going slowly.
And that mounts into hundreds of billions of dollars.
And, of course, we also kill over 40,000 people primarily for human error.
Well, that's right.
You really, Doctor, believe the future of transportation, at the personal level, in America, in our lifetimes, could be air rather than ground?
I'm sure of it.
I'm not saying I'm sure of it because we're going to do it necessarily.
We're going to be a contributor to that, and maybe we'll give other companies a jump start in the research we've done.
After all, we've spent, in today's dollars, over a couple hundred million dollars.
It's not an inexpensive technology, but It's coming, inevitably, because every system in America has always been replaced by another system.
First, we had canals, which then got replaced by railways.
Railways got replaced by automobiles.
And today, in the last 10 years, highways have only increased by 2%, and the miles traveled has increased by 30%.
So you can imagine what's going to happen in the next 10 years.
I mean, you can see the traffic today coming to a stop.
In your wildest imagination, I don't think people can understand what's going to happen the next 10 years on the highway.
Um, you know, the audience is also reacting to the news of the day.
That's what audiences always do.
And there is a lot of news about car bombs and truck bombs.
And people are saying, boy, what a nightmare as far as terrorism is concerned.
Now you've got bombs delivered from the air.
Has that occurred to you in recent years?
Well, there's two sides of that coin.
You know, one of the problems we have today is we don't really know a lot about who's
out there and who's in these cars and where they're going.
But when you're in this organized world in the sky, you're going to know who every individual
in every car is and where every car is going.
So it'll be a totally different world in terms of being...
Everybody's going to be traveling, it's going to be identified.
And that's a great improvement.
So, you know, there's certainly...
You can misuse anything, but it'll be a major change for the way we deal with traffic today.
Such a system, it seems to me, would have application, for example, in law enforcement.
Oh, yes.
It's going to make the getaway car tougher, isn't it?
Yes.
Well, of course, the crooks are going to have it, too.
So the issue is, how does he get up there when he's going into a world where the control of that vehicle, for the most part, is from a central control network?
He really is at the mercy of the controllers.
So I think you'll have the traffic cop in the sky.
Get a hold of them pretty quickly.
Have you really spent that hundreds of millions?
I've spent it over a period, of course, of a long time.
So that's in today's dollars.
We've actually spent about $75 million, but remember, we started spending back in the 60s.
Still?
So if you had to replace what we've done, it's probably somewhere between $200 and $300 million.
That's still a lot of money.
It's a lot of money, but you know, the auto industry spends a billion dollars just changing the models over.
So, in terms of real dollars, you've seen some of these major players in the dot-com era go through $20 billion and see it go right down the drain.
It's a small amount of money in terms of what it could do for transportation and the world today.
Do you foresee, in your immediate financial future, I mean, so far, Doctor, this is a big gamble.
A lot of money put into a really big gamble.
I mean, do you see it coming back?
Oh, I see it coming back.
Money has not been my major motivating factor in here, but actually, since I have a number of stockholders on their behalf, it is a big factor.
I would do like nothing more to reward them in very serious terms for their support over these many years.
And then, of course, more recently, as a public company, it's now possible for almost anybody to become a stockholder in our company.
That's a big change.
And obviously, it'd be very nice to see these kind of people become You know, the beneficiaries of the technology.
Sure.
Do you imagine yourself to be thought of in the sense of the Wright Brothers when it comes to the issue of personal flying vehicles?
I mean, you probably are there, really, aren't you?
Well, I wouldn't put myself there yet.
I would think that if we're successful in the next year, and I'm very optimistic we will, we certainly will introduce, and that's what I'm, you know, we won't provide at this point, but we will introduce a new type of technology That when people realize it can be done, that we may have another, you know, bubble, technological bubble, and at least this time it'll have some real, you know, real material behind it.
Some substance, huh?
Well, so you really think that by spring, I'll be watching Dan Rather or CNN or whatever newscast, and I'm going to see a Skycar hovering above a lake?
Oh, yes.
I mean, actually, yeah, we will.
We've seen him, Peter Jennings, already.
He showed one of our earlier flights.
We've been on the national television and even on CNN a couple times.
We've had pretty dramatic coverage of some of the previous flights.
Alright.
I guess I'd love to be involved in what you're doing.
Are you having fun?
Oh yes, I'm having fun.
Other than the fact I spend so much of my time Raising the capital to make this whole thing happen.
Yes.
I'm a technologist.
I love nothing better than either designing or actually doing something with my hands, and I end up so much involved in the financial world of necessity, because this is not something that you can do like I started out in my garage as not really a hobby, but certainly something relatively inexpensive.
Today, I have to have really superb people working with me, great people of electronics, Software and hardware to make this happen.
I can't do it on my own any longer.
Sure.
With an operational Skycar in controlled airspace, would it be, do you envision it being possible for the person in the driver's seat to disengage the computers, or would that not be allowed?
No, it would be totally out of the possibility.
You could select to operate out of sight the highway system, just as you can take an off-road vehicle and have a lot of fun.
But, of course, you'd still have onboard that system a lot of warning devices and preventive devices so that you can't get near the virtual highway.
But when you're on that virtual highway in the sky, you are no longer having anything to do with that vehicle.
There's an emergency.
The emergency will be handled remotely or with onboard computerized systems.
And I guess the worst case, the parachutes will be deployed automatically.
Well, you and I both know how Americans are with their vehicles.
Whether it's one that goes in the sky or on the road, they like to go have fun.
Oh, yes.
And so you're telling me it would be possible to essentially go off-lane or off-road, you could think of it like as off-road, and get into uncontrolled airspace and just go have fun?
Sure.
Do aerobatics, anything you like.
Aha!
What kind of aerobatics would it be capable of?
Well, the vehicle is stressed at plus or minus 9 G's, which would pretty much make most people blackout.
But in this case, since you could program the aerobatics, you could blackout and still come back alive.
It could be quite a different world in terms of making this the perfect aerobatic airplane without you having to do it.
At the same time, of course, you have the freedom to control it as well, if you like.
Running out of gas, or in this case, alcohol.
Lots of warnings there?
Lots of warnings, yes.
We've got warnings that measure the quality and the quantity.
We have redundant fuel tanks, meaning that, you know, the fuel doesn't come from one tank.
The engines are fed by different tanks, so that if you ran out of fuel on one engine, you wouldn't run out on the other seven.
Everything that you can do to prevent the possibility of losing more than one engine at any one point in the flight is the design criteria we've used.
How reliable are the engines themselves in testing?
Well, the rotary engine, and this is the hard thing for people to believe, I mean, you used an RX-7 and remember that engine was really developed in the 70s, so it was a baby relative to the technology that's already out there.
Oh, yes.
And yet it still, after they solved the initial seal problems, was a very reliable engine.
In fact, it won the Le Mans, 24-hour Le Mans.
It can literally run for 25,000 hours without being overhauled because of the fact that there are no frictional parts, so to speak.
We use roller bearings, ball bearings.
Kind of things that generate very low friction.
Do you think that the seal problems that the early Wankel had, was that the reason that it didn't take off in commercial development as it should have?
Well, it was that and it was also not very good mileage.
The sports car, you may not have noticed that because you maybe weren't paying attention to it, but it did get about 20 25% less montage.
Right.
Which was significant to a lot of people, particularly in the 70s when it was introduced, of course.
It was a very bad timing in the middle of the 70s.
Coming out with an engine that was getting 25% pure, you know, poor montage was a really downside because people were standing in line to get gasoline.
That's different today.
We don't pay as much attention to gasoline and then also the montage is very much increased.
So I think the RX-8 is going to be a real big winner.
And I think it's great coming along right at this time to provide credibility for the engine.
Good.
I'm sure commercial development of that engine has got to be a good thing for you one way or the other, right?
Absolutely.
I mean, anything that says to the world, hey, somebody else believes in this engine, Mazda is better, I think it's about $2 billion so far in the rotary engine.
And you know that they do, Japanese are pretty good at what they do technologically when they produce products as far as reliability.
That kind of experience and that kind of introduction at this time couldn't be better for us.
Well, I don't really want to know specifically about your competition, but traditionally, in the old days, NASA led aeronautic research.
We do have companies like, you know, Boeing and so on and so on.
But they're designing large commercial airliners.
What's going on in America with aeronautical research?
Pretty much nothing.
It's an extremely sad affair.
Why?
There is no budget.
The budget itself... At one time, of course, NASA was called NACA, and it was an aeronautical establishment helping us build better and better airplanes.
Today, everything is in outer space.
We're going to Mars.
Now, I'm not against going to Mars, but I think we're paying a major price in transportation opportunities by spending our budget that way.
$14 billion a year into space.
Virtually zero.
So little, in fact, that NASA can no longer run their wind tunnels, and they gave away some of their biggest wind tunnels.
It's an extremely sad comment.
I introduced an aeronautical program at the University of California Davis.
I had a huge number of students in that course until 1970.
And when they landed on the moon, all of a sudden there wasn't a penny being spent any longer in anything related to aeronautics.
It got everybody so excited.
They all went into aerospace.
And within a, you know, I had to change the program to mechanical aeronautical so people could get jobs.
I just don't get it.
Shouldn't the application be obvious that, you know, in 2003, shouldn't it just be so obvious?
Well, you know, for the first time when NASA went into space, they ended up hiring a bunch of lobbyists.
And the lobbyists worked Washington as well as they always do.
And all of the money went where the lobbyists, you know, got the congressmen to go.
And that was outer space.
So we don't have a lobby for aeronautics.
I testified before Congress last year in an effort, along with a number of other people, the head of NASA, in fact, and a couple other people who are into the new systems aeronautics.
You were in front of Congress.
What did you tell them?
I was attempting, along with everybody else, to get them to provide money.
I wasn't asking for money for myself.
I was asking for money for NASA.
NASA, Langley in particular.
And I was just simply saying that they needed to pay more attention to aeronautics because
that's the transportation system, at least a good deal of the transportation system of
the future.
But most of them weren't listening.
So we decided as a group that when they could no longer drive on the highway, which we figure
is within the next 10 years, that they might start paying attention to us again.
I mean, they obviously, when you were testifying, weren't interested?
I mean, could you really tell?
Oh, it's amazing.
There was seven of us, and as I said, including the head of NASA, Dr. Daniel Goldamir.
We each were allowed, we traveled from all over the country, we were each allowed five minutes to present our case.
The congressman himself would stand up and talk, just for the sake of getting on the record, for half to three quarters of an hour, and of course, God knows what they're talking about.
It had very little to do with their knowledge because, after all, they were not experts in the area.
It was a great insight into how some of the government works, certainly not all of it.
And so we decided that, you know, we'd present our case and let history revisit it in the next few years as traffic comes to a standstill.
All right.
Doctor, hold on.
Traffic comes to a standstill.
Imagine.
300, 350 miles an hour through the air, instead of bumper to bumper on your way to work every morning.
from the high delta in the middle of the night this is close to coast
of the coast of the middle of the night Hey light, look at me I can see the way out
You shook me, took me out of my world I was lost Suddenly I just woke up in the middle of the night
We were smiling, that's not the way to be happy You got it so low, you want to get out of here
You don't know where I am, I have to take a ride One day you'll know, let me be your home
You'll turn around, if you feel like now You'll find your way, you'll find your way
You'll find yourself, if you find yourself You'll be happy to me, and this can happen to you
Wanna take a ride?
Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
And to reach out on the toll free free international line called your AT&T operator and have
them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Arthur on the Premier Radio Network.
And what a ride it will be. Now, this is not a dream. It's not just a vision.
It's the real McCoy.
And if you want to see it, there's a picture of it on the website.
Coastcoastband.com.
Just click on our guest link right there and there will be the M400 Skycar.
It's the real McCoy, folks.
And it's really just around the corner.
I say, why wait for the government to chase UFOs?
Chase them yourself in the Skycar!
Dr. Mahler, once again.
Doctor, interesting question from the audience.
How do you plan to deal with things that could be hazardous to flight, as they are now for flight, like thunderstorms, for example?
Well, the vehicle itself is relatively stable, comparable to the You have transport today, the large planes, but you still wouldn't want to fly through a thunderstorm.
You're going to have to fly around that.
There's not any, I mean, even commercial airliners today, as safe as they are, don't dare venture through a thunderstorm.
But you certainly have on board all of the information.
Remember, you've got the central control.
We have the kind of weather reporting accuracy that you would expect in the coming years with increasing computer capability.
So we'll know where everything is, and it'll be programmed around that.
The beauty of a virtual highway is the virtual highway can change.
It's not in concrete sitting on the ground and there's no options.
If you've got a thunderstorm, the virtual highway goes around the thunderstorm and everybody follows in line, computerized around that same storm.
Don't worry folks, we're going to let you speak with Dr. Mahler in the next hour and ask questions yourself.
You're listed on the Stock Exchange now, so in other words, people can become That's a big change since you and I last talked.
Yes, that is a big change.
It was always a problem because we got so many people inquiring.
We really didn't necessarily want to become a public company, but we had literally thousands and thousands of people wanting to participate, and of course the rules really prevent the average person from buying or participating in a company like ours.
There's something about risk, isn't there?
Like you've got to have a million dollars or be at least a millionaire to venture into something like this.
Right.
It makes it very difficult to raise money because, you know, you've got to convince people who've already got so much money they don't need any more to go and take a risky adventure when they can go and invest it in bonds that, you know, get their five or ten percent.
Sure, sure.
So, it's the average person out there who's the guy that supports us and we need supporting us and become part of this because they can come in and they can invest a small amount of money in a technology that could make them a great deal of money and that was an opportunity that we provided partly because of the great pressure we had to do so.
Well, there was a day that maybe a broker told me this or something that you could have invested $500 in Sony And, of course, you and all your relatives, for as long as you can see down the timeline, would be rich and comfortable.
So, maybe the Skycar is something like that.
Who knows?
Yeah, you can say that.
I can't.
I'm not allowed to make comments in favor of it.
Well, that's right.
You own the company, I guess, huh?
Well, it's just the nature of stock investing.
I cannot promote my company.
All right.
Well, then I did it for you.
Okay, that's fair enough.
That's fine.
I think it's cool, and I think it's worth Investing in, from my point of view, personally, I mean, just because it ought to be happening.
This, in a way, it almost should have happened already.
Why haven't we done this yet?
And that's really a good question.
Well, you know, it's a matter, it's never been a matter of technology, but it is true that we know that we have to have the government support in something like this.
I can't go by going and building a A new type of muffler, which we did with the SuperTrap, was
very successful.
We're building new engines.
When you build an aircraft, you have a great number of layers of government involved in
the approval process, for good reason.
But it's a slow process.
And so we're working through that.
And fortunately, as I said earlier, there's some major changes in the efforts to organize
the existing airspace.
And those same efforts are going to help us enormously as well.
I think that such a vehicle would have all kinds of applications.
For example, for fire departments and police departments that would rescue people.
After all, they're VTOL aircraft, so various versions of this would have all kinds of emergency applications, wouldn't they?
Oh yeah, and I think one of the best ones that we can provide, one that has been demanding for 25 years, is how to get the people out of burning buildings.
Because you can't go near a burning building except from above if it's a helicopter.
That's right.
But with us, we can nose right up to that building.
We've got a model all laid out.
We don't have it on the internet, but we have it in a form that people can see it, where this vehicle just noses up to a building and people offload onto it.
They're brought down to the ground four or five at a time, probably every minute.
So we think it would be a great device for rescuing.
People from situations that they've always wanted to have something to happen, but it hasn't been available.
Well, the reason I wonder why this has not happened yet is in every good science fiction movie you see, it depicts exactly what you're talking about.
An organized sky.
Computers in control, just get into the aircraft, punch her up, and away you go.
I mean, that's in movie after movie after movie.
It's not like it's nothing man has dreamed of.
It's just that man isn't, except for you, working on it very hard.
No, it's a tough problem, and actually, interesting enough, the government did spend a lot of money on vertical takeoff in the 50s and the 60s.
They spent a great deal of capital on the part of NASA and other organizations.
And they did lose a few pilots, as you always do in any new program like that, which was worrisome to the aircraft companies because the test pilots are the most important people.
But most of these vehicles were single engines, single rotors, or single something or other.
When that failed, that was the end of the vehicle and the aircraft.
And then when 1970 came along and aerospace became the dominant thing, Then there was no additional effort spent in it.
Right now, in today's world, it's just something waiting to catch fire, and it's going to happen.
We know it's going to happen.
We know it's very close at hand.
It takes the money, and the money is there.
It just needs to be directed in this direction.
And I don't mean directly towards us.
I mean towards this technology in general.
We'll see a tremendous change in the way we get around.
In the next 10 years.
Well, that's what I was going to ask.
Realistically, if things go well for you, and the whole concept, how many years might it be before... Gee, what should I ask?
The first ones are used in some regular way versus the public having access to them.
In other words, I'm trying to get a concept of timelines here.
When the first ones, I mean, you'll be testing in the spring, and we'll see it on TV, and then there'll be a period, and then there'll be some models made, and so... Well, it depends, you know.
You asked the question why it's taken so long.
The point, really, is if we can't get other people to join in, people who have the kind of money that they've been wasting on a lot of other things that they probably could have done better with, and we have to do it ourselves.
It's a bootstrap operation, and generate our own capitalism.
We've always done, for the most part.
Then it's going to take longer, of course, but I don't believe that's what's going to happen.
I believe that once we demonstrate this vehicle and once people realize that there is highways in the sky coming, then all of a sudden you're going to see a huge bunch of competitors.
Now, right now, I'm lucky.
I don't have any competitors.
On one hand, I can get all kinds of patents, and there's nobody out there competing with me.
But that's going to change, of course.
There's a lot of smart people in America.
There's a lot of good companies.
The competition starts, but that's okay.
The money's going to flow in a lot of directions, and I'm sure it's going to flow in ours as much as anybody else's pockets.
When you say we'll no longer be able to travel effectively on the roads that we have now, and maybe in, what, another ten years, that seems not... I don't know.
I just don't understand how everything's going to ground to a halt that quickly.
Explain it.
Well, it is right now.
I'll speak for a local area, but it's not different from L.A.
or Washington.
You're talking around cities mostly, but of course, people live in cities or near cities for the most part, so they've got to get out of that area.
Today, ten years ago, I could travel from Sacramento to San Francisco in an hour or so.
Right now, I could do the same trip, and it might in one day take three hours if there's even a flat tire.
The traffic comes to virtually a standstill for 10 miles.
We're at what's called saturation.
And it only takes a perturbation, a small incident, to change it from a moving traffic system to a standstill.
And that situation, in even the last two years, I've seen the traffic increase to the point that near Davis, which is precisely where I live, coming to a standstill very often.
I have a very clear picture of what's going to happen, and I don't think it's going to be ten years.
I think it's going to be more like three to four years in areas like this.
Other areas will survive, of course, a lot longer without problems.
What contacts have you had with the military, Doctor?
Well, the military has shown a great deal of interest in what we're doing, but they're also, of course, concerned as they always are with With providing funds for a small company that in their mind may or may not survive.
And that's why it's important for us to find a military partner because we've done enough.
We've done millions of dollars of contracts for the government, but usually, you know, usually because we're connected with another company that knows somebody within DARPA that can get the money.
On the merits of it, it's still unlikely that we would get a contract because we're just too small to I think so too, and I think it's almost necessary that the military be the starting point.
and he was wrong uh...
but the military more than the civilian market would be likely i would think to
take the the monetary plunge because of the obvious application
i think so too and i think it's necessary that the military be the starting point we you
know we did this with the seven oh seven seven oh seven
going to have a cent came about as a result of the case he won thirty five
the tanker and then it became the jet airplane that people started
flying.
Yes.
And, of course, the helicopter became the helicopter after Korea, where we rescued so many people over there.
Yes.
Technologies like this really need the support of the military.
So if I had four stars and I wanted to invite you in and say, all right, Doctor, I'm all Years.
Show me the military applications for this vehicle.
What would you show me?
Well, actually, you know, it's interesting because they've come to us and shown us the applications.
They put the Skycar in war games.
Every time the Skycar was in the side, on one side, that side always won.
And they spent literally millions of dollars in war games with the Skycar.
They, however, then want to go out and get a, they issued a contract to try to get vehicles like this and of course they issued
the contract for vehicles like this to companies like boeing
and that's been quite a long time ago and they haven't received anything
uh... since then so it's it's it's the same issue with a want the vehicle very
badly based on what we've been able to show them it's capable of but they're
reluctant to and that's not
their body and a relatively small company well as the voters are already
shown interest something size of boeing then why isn't boeing or are they
developing well we're we're talking to all of the major companies are not today is that the
Actually, three of them are actually foreign, which is sort of sad, because that was not the case many years ago.
There's only one aeronautical company that America has today that's civilian, and that's Boeing.
It builds military as well.
And Boeing, in my opinion, will probably not be building planes ten years from now, because Aerobus has taken the market away from them.
Again, when you have a country where you're not putting money into aeronautics, as we used to, then that country's lead in aeronautics, which was supreme for many, many years, is going to disappear, and you're going to have places like France and England with their aerobus connection.
Building airplanes that the world is buying, rather than Boeing aircraft.
Alright, Doctor, then could you conceivably end up, instead of manufacturing the Skycar itself, end up, for example, making your money by licensing to, I don't know, Mitsubishi or something?
Well, it won't be Mitsubishi.
Well, it could be.
I think it's probably a company like Embraer in Brazil.
Or Bombardier in Canada.
Really?
Or perhaps Aerobus in England.
Or, I'm sorry, in France.
Although Aerobus, I believe, owns a good piece of Embraer, so actually, in a sense, it could be something like that.
It could be General Electric.
There's a company that's promising to really look at new technologies with the change of leadership recently.
But I don't think you're going to see it being a Boeing, and I don't think you're going to see it an automotive company.
How many people are presently involved with you on working on this project?
Well, directly about 20 employees, but then I have consultants from all over the United States,
people who worked in the past on rotary engines, for example, experts who no longer, they retired for the most
part.
They love the rotary engine.
They were fascinated with it during the time they worked on it.
And they worked for me, for the most part, free.
I'm willing to pay them, but they will answer any questions and never charge me a penny because they just love the engine that much.
Yes, it got almost a cult following, didn't it?
It does.
It has a tremendous following.
If you get introduced to it, You fall in love with it.
That's very true.
I really did fall in love with it.
I thought it was just absolutely wonderful, and I had it for years.
Anyway, so it's going to happen.
I mean, this is not just a pipe dream.
One way or the other, some level of it is definitely going to happen for you, right?
Well, our company has spent over a million man hours on the technology.
to date and we have of course the comfort of having a number of
fairly powerful patents. We have a comfort in protecting ourselves
and you're right we're probably going to end up licensing the technology to
another company because it's too big a task for me to take and
undertake. You know it takes years to generate a major manufacturing operation.
And there are no large competitors for you out there with a vehicle at a similar stage of development and success.
Is that correct?
That's correct.
It's odd in a way, but again, if nobody's looking in that area, then I'm free to roam about it myself.
Well, that's true.
Not like, you know, I'm the greatest genius that ever lived.
I just took on this technology 40 years ago, and I've devoted my life to it with a lot of other bright people.
I mean, it's such an obvious idea, and it's so obviously the future, that you just would think there would be competition.
Well, a lot of people, and even people like Burt Rutan, who's certainly a very bright person in the aeronautical field, He doesn't believe it's practical.
Now, on the other hand, Bert is not an expert on vertical takeoff.
In all fairness to him, he's an expert in airplanes.
Well, he thinks it's not practical.
Why?
Just because... I guess because it's never happened, despite all the promises.
The front page of all these magazines over the years, people tend to get jaded and they say, gee, you know, if it really could happen, it would have happened.
I think that's a big factor in it.
But that's okay.
You know, again, it's beneficiary.
I'm the beneficiary of that.
I get the opportunity to generate patents without competition, at least for a while.
What do you think when you test fly in the spring and, you know, it's all over everywhere once again, but this time it's really attractive.
It's really looking like what we see and it's really flying.
I mean, what's that going to do?
Well, I think there's a point reached.
They call it the tipping point.
I don't know if you've... There's a big seller book on the bestseller list right now about tipping points.
But it's a point reaches when all of a sudden there's a movement in a direction and then it becomes a mass movement.
And I think that tipping point is going to come next year because I think with the credibility that we're going to be able to establish the highways and the sky coming about And the general interest of a number of things that are coming.
We have a number of television programs that are coming out that are pretty detailed on our technology.
And I guess we're going to be on the cover of Esquire Magazine in December.
Oh, congratulations!
And that may be confidential.
Thank you!
It certainly should help them sell magazines.
But we've got some great coverage.
We've also got a major program coming out on Tech TV and also on Discovery Channel.
So, with that, perhaps, it'll get the attention that we need.
Uh, perhaps so.
Alright, coming in the next hour, I would, you know, people obviously have a lot of excitement and interest and questions about the Skycar.
So, if it's okay with you, I'll throw the lines open and we'll see what they have.
Is that okay?
That's just great.
Good!
Uh, because it is fascinating.
Oh, gosh, is it fascinating.
The thing is, folks, it's really happening.
Again, if you want to see the Model M 400, go to coasttocoastam.com, click right there on my guest's website, you'll be looking right at the vehicle itself.
The Skycar.
If you've got questions, we've got Dr. Paul Mueller, and we'll be right back.
He's got this dream of out buying some land He's gonna give up the booze and the one night stands
And then he'll settle down in this quiet little town And forget about everything
But you know he'll always keep moving You know he's never gonna stop moving
He's rolling, he's the rolling stone When you wake up it's a new morning
Bye.
Sunny, sunny, it's a new morning.
You're gone, you're gone You're gone, you're gone
Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nigh from west of the Rockies at
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
1-800-825-5033. First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295. To reach out on the toll free
international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nye.
It is indeed in the nighttime.
Paul Moller, Dr. Moller, is my guest.
He's the guy behind the Skycar.
You've probably seen it by now, the M400, haven't you?
Come fly away with me.
It's really the American dream.
I know many of you dream of a machine like this.
Your chance to ask questions is coming right up.
Indeed I am allowed to say this for Dr. Mueller so I will.
You can buy stock from your local broker.
Under the symbol M-L-E-R.
That's M-L-E-R.
Listed temporarily on pink sheets, but as a fully reporting company, except to be listed on the NASDAQ BBB four years in.
So, they're already accepted to be listed on the NASDAQ board.
How about that?
So, you can actually get behind this, and I thought I'd toss that in for Dr. Mueller, who's about to answer questions.
Doctor, are you there?
I am.
Are you ready to face the American public?
I am.
All right, then.
Here they come.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Muller.
Hi.
Do the wild thing at 775-727-1295.
Salt Spring Island, beautiful, supernatural, British Columbia.
Ty, I want to slow you up a little bit.
We don't allow you to give your last name, so we have to bleep that out.
So your name is Ty, and you're calling from B.C.?
That's correct.
That's where I was born, was British Columbia.
Really?
Oh, fantastic.
I spoke to you back in 95 about an idea and you actually went ahead with it and that was fantastic while I was working at a country club in central Missouri.
Solar car racing with Stanford, Berkeley and the University of Waterloo.
I just happened to pick up an Equinox magazine off the shelf from May, June 89.
That's a magazine of Canadian discovery, kind of Canada's National Geographic.
And I just happened to notice under the Nexus section, up and away, an article with the 300 model.
And I just thought I'd briefly mention some of the things here.
It says here, Canadian Paul Muller first studied hovercraft technology when at the age of five, he watched hummingbirds in flight.
He was obviously impressed for today with the doctorate from Montreal's McGill
University and 15 years teaching experience aeronautical engineering at University of California Davis.
He has created a hummingbird for humans. Working with a staff of 25 specialists,
Mahler has invented the Mahler 300 Aerobot, a 19 foot, 6 meter, 3 passenger, 1 ton, 900
kilogram vertical takeoff landing VTOL vehicle that he believes could be the solution for
the world's congested roadways.
Alright. Alright. Do you actually have a question for him?
Yeah, I just wondered if he has been able to get some sort of confirmations from Bombardier and any other Canadian manufacturers, perhaps even working at the old Downsview site where the famous 50s... Avrocar.
Yeah, Avrocar was built for the US Air Force.
So the question is, he's got confirmation from Canadian companies on something?
Well, I've been talking to, in a very oblique way, with Bombardier,
and people are going to come to the test flight when we fly it in the spring.
Whenever we fly it, they'll be there.
We've got a standing invitation, and they've agreed that they would like to be present.
I respect Bombardier.
They're an excellent company.
In fact, I worked for Canadair for two years, which is Which is owned by Bombardier.
So we go back historically quite a long time.
So it is very possible that Bombardier would be an excellent candidate.
But they haven't shown extraordinary interest in the Eastern area for the moment.
Not an investor in our company.
Hello there.
Hello.
Yes, you're on the air, sir.
Oh, hi, Dr. Mueller.
This is Phil over in Woodland, not too far from you.
Oh, that's pretty close by.
Yeah.
I have a question.
I'm actually a student pilot right now.
I'm almost finished with my certification.
And they always drill into you that one of the most important things, at least for a VFR pilot, is to stay out of clouds, you know, not to go into instrument conditions.
And I guess that's one of the biggest killers of pilots.
I was just wondering, obviously you must have an autopilot system in the craft, and I'm just wondering if people would have to be trained to fly on instruments, like if they were to be in the clouds or whatever, and basically how they would navigate without any of the type of pilot training.
This kind of car is really the ultimate autopilot because it really takes over completely.
And I'm giving you a vision, you know, down the road a few years because at the beginning even it has on board all electronics to keep it one place in space accurately or move about as commanded.
So really what you do as a pilot, you tell it where you want it to go and it'll take you there.
There is no real need to have skill.
You could fly through clouds, of course, but you're not going to fly through thunderstorms large black clouds if you can avoid it for sure. Nobody
goes in there.
But certainly for anything else you don't have to have visual rules because
the vehicle itself will do the flying for you if you give it over to them.
So to be viable on a commercial scale the SkyCar absolutely, totally is going to be dependent
on the controlled skyways.
I mean, that's as much a point... For sure, for sure.
In the sense that this vehicle becomes a competitor for the automobile.
And I don't mean by that to replace it necessarily, but it makes the automobile very efficient for the 50 mile distance and makes this the alternative for something over 50 miles.
For that to be significant in people's lives, this has to be completely integrated into an airspace network.
I think that's really one of the things.
When you ask the question, you know, people say it can't be done.
They have that vision.
If you put a bunch of these things in the air, and I would agree, that's an impossible situation.
So the organized airspace is an absolutely essential element, just like the rotary engine that we developed is an essential element.
All right.
Where are we with respect to development of that kind of system?
Just this year, the FAA certified was, that's for a wide area augmentation system, and that's the geostationary satellites that recalibrates GPS.
GPS is a series of satellites that orbits the Earth that are used, as you know, in your car navigation system.
There's a Russian set that's already up there, and the Galileo system is going in place from Europe.
So you're going to have three systems.
You're going to have the redundancy you need.
You'll be able to use any one of those satellites at any time.
To know where you are and to have everybody else know where you are, which is also very critical, of course.
And then, of course, as I said earlier, Honeywell was just given a contract for a lab, which is the one that will get you down to inches of accuracy.
And that's what you need.
I don't know that we need inches, but it's always nice to be accurate.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Muller.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
How are you doing?
Fine.
I haven't spoke with you since you retired.
I'm glad you're back on the air, and I turned my radio down.
All right for you.
Okay.
Hi, Dr. Muller.
I spoke with you.
I'm Joe from WRKO Boston.
I spoke with you 10 years ago.
You made three statements to me then.
Let's see if you still make them.
You said, I am a blind person.
You said, blind people will be able to fly this car.
That's my first question.
Two other quickies, Art, if I may, please.
What if somebody wants to crash the car and goes off and crashes it?
Will the car know and stop it?
I have your video, Dr. Muller, and I would like to be the pilot First blind person to ever try it, because I'm fascinated.
And one for you, Art.
Will you make your After Dark on tape?
Because we can't read it.
Okay, well that's four, actually.
I think they're working on that.
So, he is a blind person.
Will a blind person be able to... Absolutely.
I mean, that's...
The blind person is as capable of flying this as anybody else, because after all, you're just coding in your destination.
How about if you wanted to intentionally crash the vehicle?
Well, you can't.
As I said earlier, you don't have any control of the vehicle as long as it's programmed to operate within the controlled airspace.
So, I don't think the blind person is going to choose to go off the airspace network, because that's where he's got this great advantage.
So I think you can be absolutely certain that people will not be able to move, because if they can move in any discretionary manner, they're going to run into you.
And that's very critical, that each person be absolutely controlled by some central control network.
And he volunteered to be a pilot for you.
Well, instead, I would like to ask you, who's likely going to be the first pilot?
Probably not Joe, I imagine.
Well, you know, I'm probably the first pilot in the sense that I'm willing to fly and I'm allowed to fly it over the lake.
It's probably not greater than 50 feet.
Beyond that, I've already, my stockholders have already told me that it's a no-no.
So, I guess that's my limit and then we will find, at that point, we'll probably get ourself a very qualified test pilot.
And we have a number of offers, by the way, including even astronauts.
Well, I don't blame you for wanting to be up there, but I also understand the attitude of your stockholders.
It's like my wife.
I'd like to go hang gliding, and she's like a stockholder.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Muller.
Hi.
Good morning, Mr. Bell.
Good morning.
Okay.
I've got a question.
Have you ever thought about getting that in full swing?
About, let's see, putting up a 24-hour Skycar... Skycar servicing.
Well, are you talking about a service organization for Skycars?
Yes.
Yeah, of course, that's inherent that that'll have to come about at some point in time because anything that's out there has to, and particularly aircraft, as you know, they'll always have to be maintained in a much more rigorous way than we've maintained our cars today.
Somewhere up the road there.
So you're going to see a world where you You have, as we do right now, have preventive maintenance where the vehicle itself will shut off and not operate, will not be able to take off if any of the required maintenance items has not been taken care of.
It's all part of the need to provide the reliability and safety that people are going to demand in the future.
As a matter of interest, doctor, how much maintenance is going to... I mean, we all know we have to take our cars down, get oil, and get the filters changed, and, you know, tires taken care of, and so on and so on.
What about SkyCar, maintenance-wise?
Well, it is an extremely long-life engine, historically, so we feel comfortable with that.
We don't have any... We have an extremely small amount of mechanical components because we've taken and replaced Most of those with electronic hardware and software.
And because it's redundant, you just pull out a module and replace it.
The idea being that if one fails, the other one takes over.
If that fails, another one takes over.
Of course, as soon as you have your first failure, you're ready to have it replaced with a new module.
So it's going to be a fairly low-maintenance vehicle in principle.
In practice, we'll have to see if that comes about.
Indeed so.
All right.
Wes to the Rockies.
You're on the air with Dr. Muller.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
Hi, Dr. Muller.
Two quick questions.
First, you mentioned something about deploying parachutes on the Skycar if there was an emergency.
And also, what do you think about UFOs?
Well, now, I don't know where you got that second one.
Well, if you ask the question, all I can say is that over the years, naturally, a lot of people have come to me with reports of UFOs because they think I would be an objective listener.
Really?
actually some very sound people have come and talked to me about it and have told me
stories that are really quite impressive.
Really?
So I've got to say that over 50% of Americans believe that UFOs exist.
It's hard to imagine that statistic is there, but it's true.
And the evidence that I saw from this was pretty impressive.
Now where that leads, I don't know.
You know, I'm working in a much more mundane world, I can tell you.
I would certainly like to have some kind of space system, propulsion system as they might
have employing perhaps anti-gravity infusion.
But I can just say that the people that came to me have been extremely credible.
In fact, the one individual who was a deputy sheriff told me a story that he didn't even
tell his wife because he was so afraid of the consequences of doing so.
So it's interesting.
I would certainly not discount the possibility that there's something out there we don't
understand.
T.E.
Caller, thank you for asking that one.
Wow, good response.
And what was your other question?
About deploying parachutes as a safety factor in the SkyCar.
Are you concerned about the idea or was there a...
Well, it failed at a thousand feet with the parachutes deploy and...
Yeah, that wouldn't be a problem.
The interesting thing with parachutes is if you're going forward, even at 25 miles an hour, and you pump a parachute, you've got a fairly good chance of recovering.
The worst situation is sitting there hovering.
And actually, with a parachute, you probably can't recover under, perhaps, with the self-deploying parachutes, ballistically, maybe under 150 feet would be very difficult.
So you don't really want to sit around there hovering.
Between ground level and 150 feet.
But remember, we have a system that can tolerate an engine failure, or a computer failure, or any other failure that you can imagine.
And that's the critical thing.
You just don't want to spend a lot of time, because you have to get out of that once you have a failure.
Okay?
Great.
Alright, thank you very much for the call.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Mahler.
Hi.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi, I have a question.
If this is going to be controlled by some kind of central air system, is And is this going to be, are movements going to be tracked by the system?
And are you concerned with any sort of privacy at all?
No, I'm not concerned with privacy.
I think in this particular case, you have to give this kind of privacy, at least for the convenience.
I don't see any way that you can't be identified and be a part of this system.
You just have to, they have to know who you are, they have to know where you're going, and clearly with this issue of terrorism, I think it's a really It's a great step forward to know who's up in that plane and what that plane is and where it's going.
This big brotherism is coming with almost every technological advance, not just the Skycar, but everywhere else too.
That's true.
It's inevitable.
That's our future.
At least to that extent.
It's better than knowing a bunch of medical records, which I could dispute heartily.
But in this situation here, where you're talking about people's ability to get around conveniently, If that's what I have to give up to do that, I'd be happy to do it myself, personally.
And also, I heard you say it was going to be safe for a blind person to drive.
Would it also be safe for somebody who's been out drinking or out partying?
Actually, that's a good question.
You walk, you stumble out of the bar, into your Skycar, and then what?
Well, what happens is you code the wrong number and you'll end up in Alaska rather than San Francisco.
That's your problem, but you're not going to hurt anybody on the way.
Well, if all the sky is planned, and speeds and routes are controlled, then what are our police going to do?
I mean, just how are they going to give out tickets, for example?
Well, I don't know.
I think you're still talking about a large component of freedom here, as long as people are staying away from the highway system.
You've got these so-called recreational parks, or whatever you want to call it, so I'm sure the police will have their fun.
Getting out there and dealing with people doing what they shouldn't do in that environment.
Because it's got to be a blast chasing a Skycar.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Mueller.
Hi.
Hello, Art.
Hello.
This is Nick from Oak Harbor.
Hey there.
And I have a couple of points I'd like to make with him.
First of all, I wanted to ask what he's going to use for his Propulsion, not the engines, but to move that much air flow.
Is it propellers or is it a squirrel cage type, you know, turbine blower or what?
Okay, the first question is we use axial fans, carbon fiber axial fans.
They are the most efficient way of moving air as a thrusting device.
You can have other kinds of systems that have some efficiency, but we achieve efficiency close to 93%.
With the fans that we have developed with the help of some very excellent consultants.
Wow.
So regular fan type blades then?
Yes, we have about seven carbon fiber blades.
Okay, second question.
Earlier you briefly mentioned the noise problem and I was wondering if you had examined, for example, Honda's technology that they use on some of their small engines to keep the noise down, the exhaust noise especially.
Well, as Art mentioned earlier, our company was the leader in the world at one point in silencing of engines with the SuperTrap company, so we got pretty good at that.
I think, though, we have to go a step further than what we achieved at that time, and that's this mutual noise cancellation, where you generate an anti-noise similar to the noise, the same frequency, so to speak.
I'm familiar with that technology.
It's fascinating, but I do have a question with respect to it.
where the peaks are just out of phase with the existing noise.
Absolutely.
with respect to noise. Correct. And even though you cancel noise, do you also cancel the effect
it potentially might have on your hearing? Absolutely. Oh, you do? Absolutely. When I
knock the noise out, I knock all of the acoustical energy out. It's like, you know, if you're
throwing a rock at me, I throw a rock back at you and it hits dead in the center and
that's the energy is gone and that's the energy that would hurt your ears.
No kidding.
So it's gone, and that noise has disappeared entirely.
All right.
Well, Dr. Paul Mahler is my guest, and he's the kind of guy they're singing about here, you know, up from nothing.
Why?
Because he had a better idea.
This is Coast to Coast AM in the Nighttime.
This part of the show, listen online with Streamlink.
This part of the show, listen online with screen links.
Log on to coasttocoastam.com.
Only in America.
Land of opportunity, yeah.
Put a classy girl like you all for a poor boy like me.
In America.
Get a kid who's washing cars.
Take a giant step and reach right up and far.
Yeah.
Hey ya hey ya ho, hey ya hey ya hey ya ho Oh no
Hey ya hey ya ho, hey ya hey ya ho Hey ya hey ya hey ya ho
Oh no Hey ya hey ya hey ya ho
Oh no Hey ya hey ya hey ya ho
Hey ya hey ya hey ya ho Oh no
Wanna take a ride?
Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
East of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
And to call out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them
dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell, from the Kingdom of Nye.
A program designed to lead the way, and it does, and we've got somebody who leads the way himself on it right now, Dr. Paul Mahler, designer, perhaps producer, of the Sky Car.
It's a real thing, Real McCoy.
It's about to be airborne in the spring for the world's press.
It'll happen over a lake, and it may well be your future mode of transportation.
your chance to talk to Dr. Mahler, coming right up.
Once again, Dr. Mahler.
Doctor, before it gets away from me here, is there anything that we should have talked about this time in this interview that we didn't cover in depth sufficiently or that we didn't cover at all?
Well, there's only one thought that occurred to me.
You know, obviously as popular as your show is, when you give a website like ours, we only found out we were going to be together here earlier in the week, so we really didn't have a chance to prepare our website for the onslaught.
So if your readers or your listeners Have a delay getting to us.
Be patient.
Get to us during the week if you can.
We murder some of the best websites, actually.
So that's right.
Keep trying as a watchword.
I mean, if you don't get through right away, it's because zillions of people are trying to do so.
Sure.
And it'll be there for anybody who's, you know, there's a lot of data there about the Skycar and other things that we're doing.
All right.
First time caller on the line.
You're on the air with Dr. Mueller.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
This is Theo from New Jersey.
Yes.
Hi, Theo.
Dr. Mueller, how do you feel That the SkyCar will affect current air traffic and the air traffic economically.
Really good question.
How, in other words, airliners and the airline industry, what impact on that?
Well, airline, about 80% of the flights today are about the range of the SkyCar.
So if, in fact, you offload it, that gives you no airport.
You're becoming completely impacted by the short flights.
And if you want to take a long flight, you're suffering the same consequences because of that.
So Skycars ready off loaded airports.
And as I said, about 80% of the flights are the range of the Skycar, meaning they could be handled by vehicles like that.
Then airports become far more efficient, as highways would become because again, about 85% of the miles traveled on the highway are 50 miles or more.
So again, I'm sorry, less than 50 miles.
So that in fact, The SkyCar could replace a great deal of that that is out there.
Still, though, our roads now are filled with both buses, some sort of mass transportation, and automobiles, individual transportation.
Why couldn't somebody imagine roughly the same thing in the sky between airliners and SkyCars?
Absolutely.
I mean, there is one thing that's physically true.
The SkyCar really can't be bigger than six passengers, but that's fine.
I mean, what you do is you have a world where you fly on demand.
Rather than on schedule.
You know, five people arrive at the airport, or six people, and the aircraft takes off.
Another five arrive and it takes off.
Rather than have to sit there and wait for a scheduled flight and all of the other issues that go with that.
Can you imagine sport models?
Oh yeah, I think it's pretty sporty right now if you've got a chance.
It certainly is.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Mueller.
Hi.
Hey, howdy.
Good to have you back.
It's like Christmas every weekend.
Oh, thank you.
Um, Dr. Ma, this is the coolest thing ever.
I'm very excited hearing about all this.
There's just one thing.
It sounds like a lot of the safety, as far as, you know, my fellow SkyCar people and, you know, buildings around the virtual highway, is going to be coming from software.
Now, software is, you know, fairly malleable stuff.
What happens if we get our hobbyists and hackers get in here?
And give their SkyCars lobotomies and start doing naughty things.
What kind of safeguards do we have?
Good question.
Right.
One virus and down thousands of vehicles go.
Well, again, as I said earlier, we have four computers on board, all programmed by different programmers.
I mean, that's not the whole answer to it.
You've obviously got to have different firewalls and other protections for the various computers.
But I think that what we would want to do always is make sure that we have a number of different systems so that a virus is unlikely to kill all of them.
Again, if that should happen, I presume that what the system would do is go into a land mode, automatic land mode.
I see.
And be landed if that extreme case were to occur.
Well, it's a problem that not just Skycar would be dependent on, but so many other industries are facing the same questions about hackers.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Mueller.
Hi.
Hello.
Going once, going twice.
Gone.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hi.
Hi.
Good evening, gentlemen.
Happy Halloween.
Happy Halloween.
I was just wondering, to raise capital awareness and joint ventures, if Mr. Mueller has talked to Paul McCready of Aero Environment or Ballard Fuel Cell Technology to try to clean up the propulsion?
And I also wondered if there's a possibility for promotional purposes if someone, say, like John Travolta, who's a Qantas spokesman pilot actor, Well, I hope some of them are listening to the show tonight, because really, the problem is getting through to talk to these people.
We always feel that if we had the opportunity to sit down with many of these people who could do us a lot of good, that we would certainly convince them, but they are so normally sheltered by They're protectors around them and we do the same thing in our company of course.
I'm fairly well protected from people coming in that it becomes almost impossible to even have an opportunity to talk to these people.
But undoubtedly with shows like this and other things coming up as I mentioned earlier with Esquire Magazine and Tech TV and Discovery.
I would expect we will find that they will come to see us.
I rather imagine so.
First time caller on the air with Dr. Mueller.
Hi.
Gentlemen, good morning.
How are you?
Fine.
Good morning.
First of all, Art, first time I've talked to you, you are the master.
That's what you know.
That's very kind.
Thank you.
And Dr. Mueller, I'm currently studying to be a recording engineer in Minneapolis, and I overheard the comments about The noise cancellation through phase shifting.
Interesting stuff.
My question is, what type of transducers would you be using exactly to cancel that noise at that extent or that level, I guess?
Well, normally you have to use a number of microphones because, of course, you're dealing with a number of different frequencies.
Sure.
So you end up doing what's called a Fourier analysis, picking up the dominant frequencies and then tuning those individual microphones for, you won't get rid
of all the noise unless you have an infinite number, almost an infinite number of microphones.
But that's right, as you know sound is a logarithmic thing, so most of the energy is carried in very few frequencies.
Right. Is there a certain transducer you would use, a cardioid polar pattern or something?
I'm not an expert in that, but I have people around me who are, and I've got consultants who I work with who would do
this, and they certainly would know more about it than I, so I'm
sorry I can't answer that specific question.
Yes, and Necessity, you're really involved in, actually, the actual development of a lot of different technologies to achieve this, aren't you?
That's correct.
We're involved, as you know.
We do all our own software.
We develop all our own computer boards.
We have them printed outside of the assemblyman house.
We build our own aircraft frames, all the fiberglass.
We do all our own machining.
So, and we build our own engines.
So, in a sense, we're pretty broad in what we take on.
That's remarkable.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Muller.
Hi.
Hi, this is Gordy in Prump.
Yes.
Oh, in Prump.
Right.
And I had a question regarding your traffic control system.
Our air traffic control system is, well, goodness, they still use Well, you know, I would say that would be a hard question to answer a few years ago, but with the movements taking place right now, and the fact that they recognize that they have a serious problem, I mean, there's no question about the fact that they are promising that ten years from now, there will not be a single fatality in the air.
I mean, that's what the MFA is promising.
And the only way they're going to deliver on that is to make those kinds of changes that would make that possible, and getting the air controller, who obviously does a great job of what he's doing, but he's a human and he's dealing with a huge amount of information, something that a computer can handle much better.
And so I think it's a world that I think is extremely promising from existing aircraft, and certainly the opportunity it provides aircraft like ours.
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Mueller.
Hi.
Hi.
Hello.
Where are you?
I am in Oregon, Ohio, right next to Toledo, Ohio.
All right.
Rockaway.
WSBD 1370.
Yes, sir.
And I had a question for your guest.
I wondered if the SkyCar, because I went to the website, it's moeller.com, Francesca SkyCar.
Right, moeller.com.
And it says that our regular page is unavailable at this time.
Please go back in a day or two.
That's what they had to put that up just because they were afraid that that would happen, obviously, with the popularity of SkyCar.
Art Bell Show.
And there goes another website.
It'll be, so be patient is what the doctor's going to say.
Come back and see us.
You're going to find lots of things.
There's models Skycar sold on there.
There's been about a half a million of those sold already.
You can get t-shirts.
You can get almost anything, because obviously we try to do whatever method we can to raise money for the Skycar.
Okay.
And I saw the picture on the front there.
Is that what the Skycar looks like?
Because I wondered if when you do a turn, Does it bank like a normal airplane?
It banks like a normal aircraft, right.
And it's got ailerons?
Well, it's got, effectively, ailerons, the vanes, and the exit of the ducts act as ailerons and elevators.
Okay.
And I had a comment about the solar flare.
Yes.
Last night, about 3, I do, like, some security work in an apartment complex.
Yes.
And I saw this.
I'm sitting there, and I'm sitting in the dark because I don't like Cognito, waiting for somebody to come along and try to break into a car or something.
And I'm sitting there, and all of a sudden, I see this really bright, Hello there.
of light and it was so bright when we have a light censored light
and it just they all went out and i wasn't sure what it was and i listened
to it because george norris on and you can say anything about it okay i i appreciate call my
been the northern lights who knows
was the rockies you're on the air with dr muller hi hello there over the gym
Yes.
Yeah, I just had a question.
I had some major aesthetic concerns regarding these Skycars.
When you look up in the sky, what are you going to see?
Are they going to be so high up that you can barely see them?
Well, most of them, if they're as quiet as we intend them to be, you wouldn't even know they're there because most of them would be from 5,000 feet to 20,000 feet.
Well, what about the zone where they have to interact before getting up there?
That seems like the big question.
If people are going to take off from their rooftops, They have to get up there somehow, and there's going to be all kinds of chaos when you said they were unregulated up to the point they'd reach the highway, right?
Well, they would go along.
You think you're controlled at all times.
But I mean, if you took off from your roof, how are you controlled with your neighbors?
Well, think about this.
You took off from your house today in the city.
You follow a street, correct?
Yeah.
And you follow that street perhaps to some destination.
this destination could be a vertiport, where so you would follow a virtual highway or roadway
or streetway for some distance until you get to the takeoff point.
With this kind of accuracy that we're talking about with WAAS and LAZ that I mentioned earlier,
you're talking about control within inches at all times.
And I mean that is an absolute guarantee that's possible.
Yeah, it really is possible.
That's right.
They can deliver warheads the same way.
So certainly it's possible.
And for the most part, to answer his question another way, you're going to drive on the street in any case, because this is a roadable vehicle.
It's legal on the street.
It's eight feet and a half feet wide when the pods are folded in.
So you would drive, for the most part, on the street to a vertiport that may be two or three blocks from your home and then take off from there.
It's true.
It'll be some time before you can kick off your home safely and not worry about running into your neighbor next door.
Okay.
First time caller on line.
You're on the air with Dr. Mueller.
Hi.
Hello.
Hello.
Yes, ma'am.
What's going on with the Security and Exchange Commission?
That's an interesting question.
Unfortunately, I can't answer that question because I'm, as president of the company, I'm actually not allowed to do so.
but there is an internet site if you want to look at it uh... and it's uh... GeoCities uh... slash uh... gosh I don't have it entirely in front of me but it's I tell you what call my company and get the website that has all of the information on that because I believe the stockholders in my company are very aggressive.
West of the Rockies call toll free 1-800-618-8255 Not on my own behalf.
I'm just telling you what I understand is the case.
So I suggest you call my company, get that website, and do the research.
And then you'll find out everything you need to know about the SEC.
Okay.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
Hi, yes.
Art, it's good to hear you back again.
Thank you.
And I am a long-haul truck driver.
My name is Julian, by the way.
I'm listening to you on XM.
Wonderful.
Thank you.
Do you see the commercial application for trucking for long haul for cargo transportation in your envisions of the future?
Oh, what a very good question!
Really good question, yes.
I think you'd see us delivering high-value parcels like UPS, very important, local type overnight or even hourly delivery.
We can't compete with trucking, of course, because There's nothing more efficient than a big truck running along the ground.
I mean, when you're in the air, it takes a lot of power to maintain yourself in the air.
So trucking is going to remain as it is and doing the job it does, but we can be very competitive if used as a high-value delivery system.
Uh, but not necessarily, um, in other words, the weight would make it... Not large quantities, just valuable quantities.
So then maybe, um, our traditional roads and, uh, of course, railroads could, uh, continue to carry the, do the heavy lifting, so to speak.
Right.
Well, what'll happen is, of course, the SkyCar will offload so much of that, so the truckers are gonna have a lot easier time of it.
Uh-huh.
Uh, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Muller.
Hi.
Hi.
Turn off your radio, please.
Sorry?
I wondered if Dr. Muller has any idea whatever happened to a competitor that had a flying car that was shaped like a giant kazoo that had two engines mounted horizontally.
And there was a gentleman, I believe from Norway, who had purchased the licensing rights I am very familiar.
They used to call it the Solar Trek, correct?
Oh, that's right.
Yes.
Mr. Mike Mosier worked for me for a while.
He sent solar companies, I understand it, to some other individual who are still working to try and make it work.
And I think with enough time and effort, it will work.
I don't think that the average individual is going to be too happy trucking along in the sky out in the air stream.
Well, then he's a competitor in a way, right?
Sure, sure.
He's doing something very interesting.
I would argue that it has a number of the elements that make the helicopter risky.
A number of moving parts, any one of which fails, the aircraft is going to fail.
He was supposed to unveil it at the Lillehammer Winter Olympics, and I saw it at the Toronto Star.
Full page spread and I just thought well it seemed to be the most type I've ever seen of any flying car even though yours looks much safer and more sophisticated but I just thought well if that's not happening perhaps you could get over and help out with yours.
Yeah no I think I think it's a it's a it's another form of helicopter quite frankly and it's an interesting it's an interesting concept involving duct defense but it does in my opinion suffer from the one critical element that it has A number of things that could fail and the vehicle would fail.
Alright, first time caller on the line, you're on the air with Dr. Muller.
Hi.
Right now?
Right now.
That's how it works.
Yeah, I love your book, The Quickening.
I wanted to ask Mr. Muller, I'm an aircraft welder.
I was wondering if there was any welding that you guys do on the Skycar?
Well, in fact, how about the whole question of manufacturing?
In other words, This is going to be a lot of money and a giant industry, right, Doctor?
Right, right.
Yeah, we do some welding right now.
I think eventually there'll be other techniques involved, but for the most part, the aircraft is composite, meaning it's built of carbon fiber and fiberglass.
There is some aluminum, riveted aluminum, in the nacelles themselves for the moment, but that probably will be converted later on to composite as well.
We do have some welding when we join undercarriages and when we, you know, bracket nacelles to the sky carts, they'll require some steel.
But there isn't a lot of welding as such, and most of that would be done automatically.
Alright, well look, we're out of time for the program, but coming up in the spring, this is kind of, I'm sure, the next time My listeners will suddenly hear from and or see you this coming spring.
Big demonstration above the lake and that'll be covered by the major media, correct?
That's correct.
Yeah, we have about 600 TV, magazines, newspapers, radio stations, etc.
signed up for the attendance.
I'm sure as we get closer, that's going to get closer to a thousand.
My friends, I wish you all the luck in the world with the Skycar.
Thank you.
I appreciate the opportunity to be with you in this discussion this evening.
It's been good fun.
Good night, Doctor.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
Okey dokey!
In the next hour, we're going to shift gears big time and we're going to talk to a vampire.
How frequently on radio or television or anything else do you get to interview a vampire?
Not too frequently, I would say, but we're gonna do it next.
So, let's get started.
The first thing we're gonna do is to create a new layer.
I'm gonna use the brush tool.
I'm gonna use the brush tool to create a new layer.
Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach Art at area code 775-727-1222.
Call 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach Art at area code 775-727-1222 or call the wildcard line at
775-727-1295.
To talk with Art on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them
dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
Thought you might be interested in how this interview that is about to occur came to pass.
It was simple.
One of you out there sent me an email and said, hey Art, why don't you interview a vampire?
And they put a link there.
And I clicked on the link.
Right?
I mean, why not?
And it comes up with this incredible website, and it's got a skull with wings.
At the top it says, Temple of the Vampire.
By the way, you can go see this for yourself.
Be my guest.
It's at coast2coastam.com.
And then in blood red, just below, that's right, blood red, it says, Do you want to live forever?
Well, I was hooked, and decided to pursue a guest on this subject, and in fact, that is my guest's website.
Now, you can get to it by going to coasttocoastam.com, and then clicking on my guest's link right there, and that's what you're going to get hit with.
In blood red, do you want to live forever?
So I just go up to the point on the website there on the upper right hand side where it says Vampire Temple and click on that and that's where you're heading.
Anyway, that's the way Nemo, who is a living vampire, got here.
He's a member of the secret society known as the Temple of the Vampire.
He's a member of the Temple Priesthood and a Temple Master Adept.
The Temple is an international church devoted to the vampire religion, legally registered with the U.S.
government since 1989.
The primary text describing the Temple teachings is the Vampire Bible.
Which can be found at www.vampiretemple.com forward slash vault.
That's right, vault.
V-A-U-L-T, vault.
Temple members are true vampires.
Members of the vampire religion.
Vampirism is not easily understood in America.
Or anywhere, really.
And is reserved only to those who are born to the blood, those who feel the draw of the night, those who find that they are different from the herd of humanity and they just
virtually glory in that difference to find those who are of the blood
but have been unaware of their heritage is the mission and purpose of the temple to find those born
born of the blood oh my coming up in a moment
nemo the
alright here we go home you.
Nemo!
Yes, hello.
Hi, how are you?
Well, I'm well, Art, and I wanted to thank you for this opportunity.
It's very rare for the Temple to give permission for a media interview.
Is it?
Yes, I've been given special permission to discuss a much wider range of subjects than generally allowed.
Would that be like special dispensation?
You really are a vampire.
Yes, a vampire is a member of the vampire religion, as you mentioned before.
So tonight should be a special treat for your listeners.
Thank you for having me.
You really are a vampire.
Yes, a vampire is a member of the vampire religion, as you mentioned before.
We practice a discipline to break free of mental delusions and to unite the two sides
of the mind, the conscious and the unconscious.
But a lot of people would say that vampirism is a delusion.
Oh, well, of course.
And, in fact, there's good reason to believe that this has been promoted.
We actually are in favor of the concept that people, frankly, in this group, reject the reality of vampirism.
uh... we uh... part of the interviewer now the words that you don't actually want people to uh...
uh... fundamentally no We actually end with the people who actually become members of the temple.
We discourage belief entirely.
Everything that we are involved with is intended to be self-validated.
When you ask the question on your website in bold red, do you want to live forever, do you really mean that?
Yes, precisely that.
You really mean that?
Yes.
There is no question in your mind that one is able to physically live way beyond the normal span of human years?
Yes, definitely.
And in fact, to actually answer that question does require a little bit of background, but fundamentally, even the first advertisement that you had on your program for HGH, Human Growth Hormone, is an example of life extension.
Yeah, but I don't think it's the vampire method, though.
Pardon me?
I don't think it's the vampire method, though.
Um, actually, that's part of it, yes.
Really?
Yes, we have a day side view of reality.
A little dose of O positive and HGH.
Well, we don't drink human blood.
That's something that is actually even forbidden.
Now, wait just a moment.
Everybody knows that vampires drink blood.
So, what are you talking about?
Fundamentally, what we absorb is the excess life force, some people call it Qi, Prana, bioenergy, that is given off all the time by people, radiated and wasted.
And what we do is absorb it, and regenerate it, and actually utilize it.
So you're not even telling me that you suck the virtual life force from the soul of people.
You're telling me you only take the fringes, the excess.
Is that correct?
Yeah.
There's no need to try to do that.
I don't even know if that's possible.
So all these people are walking around with all this excess energy.
It's like oil dripping from them.
And so you absorb the outer portions of this only.
Just taking a little taste.
When people go to any kind of a group where there is a lot of energy that's being put out, such as football games, religious revivals, there's a tremendous amount of power that goes out.
This evening I went to one of the commercial haunted houses.
What we would call gatherings and you would call opportunities, I suppose.
Precisely right.
There's two sides to it, and that's one side.
So wherever large groups gather and get excited, you feed?
That's one easy way to view it, yes.
Why does vampirism have such a bad reputation, do you think?
I think it's because it is wrapped very much around the concept of death.
And there's one thing that is absolutely true in our culture is that the avoidance of considering death, thinking about death, is very much a driving force in our psychology.
So anything that challenges that It is very much going to be forbidden.
It's going to come up as a problem.
So what it amounts to is that if you frankly talk to people and you just say, look, would you like to live forever?
And I suggest that anyone listening try this.
I don't care.
Pick 10 people at random that you know.
Ask them.
They'll usually say no.
They will usually say no.
Yes, you're quite correct.
Actually, do you know, I've asked that question, and you are absolutely 100% correct.
I did it on the local show here, just for the fun of it.
And you're right.
More than not, people will say no.
They would not want to live forever, and I've speculated about why that is.
Why do you think?
Part of this comes from the fact that through history, up to this point, people have not been able to do so.
Everyone who is born and becomes aware of death, usually when they're children, are frankly horrified at the thought that they have to say
goodbye to people that they love and care for, that someday they will have to say
goodbye themselves.
And this underlying fear, we have never had the experience of having human beings walk
around who have been physically immortal or are about to do so.
That's what it is all about.
Well, you have apparently the promise of living forever.
Now, all due respect to HGH, it doesn't even promise that, but you do.
So, on what basis?
I mean, can you go to Raiders games and suck enough energy to keep yourself alive?
Are you suggesting to me that you're going to be able to live forever because you do that, or is there more?
There's quite a bit more.
Like?
Like, first of all, in order to understand the temple, when people look at these ideas, and they're important ideas, it's very important to realize that to grasp what is true requires more than just one viewpoint.
And so we actually have three perspectives, or structures of viewing the world, called the day side, the night side, and the twilight.
Meaning?
The day side is a very common sense view.
This is what most people would agree is true.
This is where people have Their beliefs about what they think is so.
The night side is dealing with what most people would put on the fringe.
The paranormal.
The things that they really would question or disbelieve in.
You call that the night side?
Yes, the night side.
In the same way that everything on this world is divided into day and night.
Conscious, unconscious.
There's a lot of divisions which make a great deal of sense.
So, from the same perspective for immortality, from the day side common sense practical perspective, the temple suggests that physical immortality But let's get something straight.
You can't promise immortality with vampirism short of a medical advance.
I admit, they're getting very close.
the cell clock which limits the lifespan of human beings.
But let's get something straight.
You can't promise immortality with vampirism short of a medical advance.
I admit they're getting very close.
They are.
But I thought within vampirism somewhere there would be the tenet that if you do, if you
follow the dictates, you're going to live forever.
Anyway, is there or is there not that promise?
There is.
There is?
That's from the nice side.
Alright, from the nice side.
Yes, yes.
If you try to hold a viewpoint that is contradicted internally, it's going to be very difficult to be consistent in what you do and what you think.
So we recommend that people remove delusions and illusions from their day side.
That's a very big part of what we do.
And then that enables them to move more of the elements of the night side, of the things that are considered paranormal, into their day side, where it actually becomes part of their life, becomes a normal part.
So for example, from the night side view, we take life force, it vitalizes the body, it enables consciousness.
Does it, if you take enough, enable immortality?
I'm trying to nail that down.
Yes.
Then the stage beyond that is that we do a lot of work with lucid dreaming and out-of-body experience.
One of the big keys to out-of-body experience is to wake up.
We take the perspective that whenever a person sleeps, they're out-of-body anyway.
The key is, can you become aware of the fact that that's happening when it's happening?
And so then there are other details that are attached to this.
But fundamentally, when a person physically dies, what we expect happens is that the conscious divides from the unconscious.
There simply isn't enough coherence, cohesion, energy to keep everything together.
And so one of the features of learning to practice the taking of life force, we call vampirism, is in order so that when a person does, Physically die if they don't make it through to where we can keep the same physical bodies Then they'll be able to maintain consciousness Keep the link to the unconscious where all of your memories are and thereby be able to continue Now that continuation we also hold all that these things come through the temple teachings which have been transmitted to us from people who have succeeded in doing this and as a consequence we arrange to preserve the body and
As opposed to cremating, if we can possibly do so, because that gives you more time.
Yeah, but you're talking about people that are physically dying, right?
Pardon me?
I guess I'm confused.
You're talking about people that are physically dying and ways you can prepare them for that, but not telling me how you avoid it all together.
Well, the key to this, of course, is that there are about six billion people on the planet.
Yes.
So it would seem.
Sometimes there are people who are passing away, dying of one cause or another.
Yes.
So it would seem.
Not naturally.
Sometimes this happens through accidents.
Yes.
Okay.
What it amounts to is that once you learn the trick of being able to be out of body,
then there is the possibility of taking a body when it is no longer being occupied,
if you follow me.
Oh, I think I do.
So fundamentally, the people who we view as being the successful ones...
You know, let me just slide something in here.
I've talked to a lot of out-of-body type people, you know, who actually teach out-of-body, right?
And one of the things that they say, and maybe you would want to challenge this, is that when you're out-of-body, There is zero possibility, no possibility that some other entity or form could take your body whilst you're away.
They say it's impossible.
Now, it sounds to me like you're saying, oh, but it is possible.
Well, the thing is that I have to be very clear that what I'll be discussing here tonight, I won't be attempting to prove things.
I understand that.
I'm just asking you, can you do that?
Can you take someone's body?
Of course.
I'm in one now.
One that you took or one that you got?
One that I was born in.
So you were spanked on Fannie in that one?
Pardon me?
Spanked, you know, when you were born?
Of course.
Don't remember that.
Right, but it is your contention that I'm trying to nail you down here.
Sorry, poor expression.
No problem.
Just don't stake me.
You are convinced that before you physically die, you're going to be able to take someone else's body.
I mean, let's get that straight.
Yes, because in a very real sense, and this does take quite a bit of understanding, there's just no getting around it, it is outside of the paradigm that most people operate in.
Way out of mind.
It's very different, and that is that fundamentally you are not in a body right now anyway.
It seems that way to so many people, but that some of the Illusions that need to be lifted.
When a person understands where they're really operating from, and I do mean that spatially, then it becomes much easier to understand how it would be possible to work through another person's physical body.
The very fact that possession is talked about so much would indicate that there might be something to it.
The many people whom I do have great respect for such as a Bowman for example that his work with out of body
experience will state that to their experience
such a thing is not possible and they give good reasons why they think so.
The difference is that we have people who have experiences that disagree.
It may just simply be that they haven't had those experiences.
Well, listen, I've challenged them on this point.
You know, if on the one hand you agree with the premise that it's possible to leave your body, and a lot of people, a lot of my listeners, know that it is true, then it only made sense to me that if you knew what you were doing, you could virtually occupy one of those bodies if you chose to.
They maintain, no, I'm not so sure.
There's a lot of fear which is attached to death, which is deeply embedded into human beings.
It's always been the case.
And when people are attempting, and I applaud their efforts, anyone, to learn to rise above the physical, to learn to leave the body in that sense, then any fear that would cause them to hesitate, to dive back in, to be shocked and therefore become more physically aware and therefore to abort that effort, that is a problem.
And so, of course, the idea that there would be all kinds of lurking monsters ready to jump into your body and take over and possess you can be a source of fear.
The thing is, is that for whatever reason there is, it does seem that that kind of issue is not a real problem.
Secondarily, it isn't really, to my experience, an issue of a person being unable to protect themselves or something.
There aren't that many bodies that are being sought.
And when that occasion occurs, it's usually at a person's death.
It's when someone is going to be severely injured, but there is a chance for recovery.
There are sometimes people who, in a very real sense, aren't very much there to begin with.
As a consequence, there isn't really an occupant.
The idea that we are in a body to begin with.
That's a little bit of a judgment call.
A little bit of a judgment call there.
Oh, yes.
A little bit.
So, in that manner, then, by taking someone's body, you can live forever.
Yes.
We consider a physical anchor required in order to contain and maintain consciousness such that it moves the life force to where you are, so to speak.
If you cut off your ability to have energy, pressure on the carotid arteries of the neck, a few seconds, I believe it's six usually, a person loses consciousness.
Uh-huh.
We constantly need that to be aware and awake.
It's an enormous amount of energy required.
You've studied that, huh?
How long it takes for a person to lose consciousness.
I've read it.
Carotid artery.
Okay.
Stay right there.
Nemo is my guest.
Nemo is a vampire.
He actually is...
Very important vampire, I guess, in the hierarchy of things.
From the high desert in the middle of the night, with the winds blowing, I'm Art Bell.
The official website of Coast to Coast AM is www.coasttocoastam.com.
Log on now!
Oh, what a night it is!
Oh, it's sweet to be here!
Sweet dreams are made of these Who am I to disagree?
I travel the world and the seven seas Everybody's looking for something
Some of them want to use you Some of them want to get used by you
Some of them want to abuse you Some of them want to be abused
you Wanna take a ride?
Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
Rockies at 1-800-825-5033. First time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222. The Wild Card
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the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
I wonder if Nino has a mate. Nimo perhaps has a wife or girlfriend and whether they go out and neck.
Sorry.
I forgot.
They don't drink blood.
But they are vampires.
And I have one of them here by special dispensation.
Nemo is my guest.
yes we'll be right back it's clear to me that nemo
believes himself to be what he says he is, a vampire.
Clearly so!
And somebody who just came on to do this, he's got a website up and there's, in fact, there is the Vampire Bible.
What is the Vampire Bible?
Oh, well, the Vampire Bible is fundamentally our basic work that explains what is essential to the religion.
It's a highly condensed 55-page book.
We have a vampire creed, We have a statement called Dragon Speaks.
Well, it's almost a Bible pamphlet.
Not quite.
Fifty some odd pages.
Who wrote the Vampire Bible?
These ideas were actually transmitted to us from people who have already succeeded in accomplishing the goals.
I could point to my own grandfather.
He's one person who's been in communication with me.
Usually, as people who have this experience grow up, they are unaware of the fact that things are happening around them.
Sometimes this becomes obvious in early adulthood, sometimes later.
Is your grandfather now in his second life?
That would count very strongly, yes.
Really?
Do you know which body he snatched off him?
I wouldn't be at liberty to discuss that.
You know, that brings up another subject, and that is, How many things could I ask you that you wouldn't answer?
What percentage of things about vampirism in your life would you simply not be able to talk about on the air?
How much of it?
A lot?
Well, in so far as wanting to keep my own personal identity somewhat under control, not too much that's personal, but in terms of the teachings, in terms of what this is about as a religion, as a practice, the goals, the benefits, the means to achieve it, Well, I'm sure that's true.
I really am.
The benefits, I guess, if eternity is there, are obvious.
I mean, I'm here to talk to this audience.
Because we believe the very kind of people most likely to consider the temple are listening
to us right now.
Well, I'm sure that's true.
I really am.
Why, the benefits I guess, if eternity is there, are obvious.
What about the downside of vampirism?
What's the downside?
I'm expecting people to ask me what they thought that would be.
There are two elements that I think that really do count as being a downside.
One is that, and I've already seen this in my own relatively short life, and that is that you see people that you do care for, who do embrace a deafest perspective, which is our universal cultural view.
And we'll reject being able to continue.
Well, isn't it a tough moment for you when you have to tell the young lady of your, I don't know, interest, listen hon, there is something you should know.
I mean, I don't know how you break it.
But the right?
I mean, that's part of the downside that you sort of just explained, isn't it?
What seems to be true is that, and there are many theories, even we are not certain, but the people who are attracted to actually wanting to endure, and are willing to actually do something about it, and develop experiences, and test them, and face a lot of these fears, is a very, very small fraction of the human population.
As a consequence, what we found is that generally, in terms of mates and relationships, the people who get along with each other share those views.
It's very rare to find someone who is truly a vampire who will not be attracted to another person who is.
And it's very rare that relationships will work out that are not.
It's a self-correcting problem.
Do they happen?
Pardon me?
Do they happen?
Oh, yes.
Such relationships?
Yes, yes.
The mortal and the immortal?
Yes.
It does happen.
A little awkward though, huh?
Well, it can be when it comes to important issues.
It can be when it's to such things as long-term planning.
No joke.
No, I know.
Obviously, long-term planning would be a big deal.
A really big deal.
I mean, couples plan together.
Yeah, gee, you'd have to be sitting there thinking about the next wife.
That's actually not a small point.
That's true.
What we do find is that because of the way of looking at the world, the practical answers to very real-world problems, including better relationships, marriages, do seem to come as a consequence of applying the Temple teachings.
Well, what about offspring of these lucky ones?
How do you handle it?
I mean, you would obviously Um, have maternal feelings and want to bestow immortality on those of your own blood.
Of course, I guess it wouldn't be a problem because they are of your blood, huh?
Well, it's not necessarily a physical thing at all, but in the very real sense that we care for our children, absolutely.
And what that stems from, primarily, is just simply giving them a good, clear, rational understanding of what is going on in the world, dispelling illusions, Encouraging them to not discount paranormal phenomena when
it does happen.
Reassuring them that things can work out.
And basically, when they're ready, as they grow up and become adults, being able to make
intelligent choices about those kinds of things.
We've already seen people who've done this, so it's not an issue.
In the Vampire Bible, I guess there's obviously mention of undead gods.
Undead gods.
Undead gods.
Undead gods are the ones you worship?
Well, worship would imply working for, which I believe is the derivation of the word originally.
In that sense, serving and working for your own family makes perfect sense.
The undead gods are really us when we're freed of delusion, and we're astrally free. It isn't someone else.
One of the major things in the vampire religion is that if in the sense of being the most important person in your
world you would consider that to be God, then we view the
vampire God as you. If you accomplish that, you get to basically say, well,
that's me.
Have you thought of the public relations aspect of this?
In other words, what you've described, I guess, could be loosely, or maybe not so loosely, described as vampirism, sure.
But you could come with a more attractive name.
I mean, look at what Hollywood has done to your name.
Yes.
Yes.
They've ruined you.
They've ruined you.
I mean, why not pick another name?
Why stick with vampirism?
And it may be that we won't.
That's entirely possible.
Really?
The Temple is an experiment.
It was only started, it was suggested strongly in 1988, approved in 1989.
That's when we went public.
It's an experiment to see whether or not we can approach people consciously who are candidates As opposed to the old way, which is primarily unconscious.
So then this is a kind of an experiment.
Precisely.
To see if you can interface successfully without getting murdered, burned at the stake, or otherwise maimed or mutilated, right?
Actually, this is more of an experiment rather than worrying about security.
As it is to see, is it possible to approach human beings consciously with the teachings, as opposed to unconsciously, which has been the way it's always been.
There's been long debate for many, many, many years, and there have been different approaches that have approximated it, but nothing was ever approved before.
Well, how's the experiment going so far?
So far, it seems to be going quite well with those people who do pass through all the filters, and the filters are self-imposed.
There has been a viewpoint that by using the word vampirism, we are also being very direct with saying, yes, we are taking life force that is given off by humans, We are saying that we prefer life over physical death, being permanent.
That we have an attitude of being, if you will, a predator towards human beings.
Not in the sense of killing them, but in the sense of taking advantage of what they are unwilling to do themselves.
We are human beings.
You really have a way with words, Nemo.
Oh, well, thank you.
You're very welcome.
You managed to take something that, well, for most people is a horror, And actually, the concept of taking blood or taking energy is not all that different, really.
Here's a question for you, Nemo.
Many people have experienced this.
They'll be in a room.
It could be semi-private, you know, two people meeting or even a party or a room full of people or whatever, and suddenly, They feel drained.
Somebody has literally drained them of their life force, and they're suddenly tired.
And they felt like they've, you know, it's just been succubus at work at them.
And from what you've said, it doesn't sound like you'd be responsible for anything like that, sucking at the very outskirts of the life force.
But You know, I can't help but wonder if one of your sort could have been responsible for that.
Not living vampires.
That's something I can vouch for from my own long experience with this.
What happens if a person's blood sugar drops through the floor so that they're so tired?
That's a chemical issue.
Yes.
A medical problem.
The life force energy that is given out is not necessarily directly correlated to the Physical energy that a person will necessarily feel.
So if a person feels suddenly drained by the presence of someone else, there are many possibilities to explain that.
Generally, without trying to sound negative about this, but if you think of the way we have dairy cows that produce milk, if you don't milk them, the cow becomes uncomfortable.
The same way human beings give off energy, if it becomes, if you will, constipated, It actually can cause problems.
The flow of qi through the body is very positive.
So you think of yourself as walking around and helping people.
Fundamentally, yes.
Just improving the way they feel and taking all that sort of milking them, the human cows.
Yes, the human herd.
The human herd.
You see, it's necessary to kind of read in between the lines what you said, because I realize you're very adept at putting things in an almost acceptable way, you know, for people to listen to and say, well, hey, vampirism, I never thought about it that way.
Maybe.
Well, for those who would accept it, there is the possibility that they will find they're attracted to it.
For those who find that it's objectionable, It's questionable whether they would ever get past that objection.
We see what we look for, we look for what we see, and our perceptions are altered by what we expect.
Alright.
You've got a symbol, right?
Yeah.
It's on the website there.
That hit me square between the eyes.
A skull with two snakes and wings.
And I wondered then and wonder now, a skull, two snakes, and wings.
Well, you know what that means to me.
That means the skull is the poor person who's had the last little anything sucked from them.
The snakes are the ones that did it.
And you're flying away in a new body.
Part of that sounds very good.
So what does it mean?
Well, it's not Harley Davidson.
We've had some people wonder.
The symbol of the temple is a teaching device for the unconscious.
It has many nested meanings.
Not all of them I can talk about.
Just give me what you can.
Sure.
In Egypt, the same symbol is commonly seen as the winged orb.
The orb was the top of the skull.
Yes.
As the face is now rising to public awareness, it's turned up to face directly.
The skull represents the center of awareness behind the eyes.
Wow.
It is also a reminder of what endures beyond death.
The snakes on each side do represent the flow of life force, the Ida and Pingala, the energy channels.
Yes.
And the wings represent flight, freedom, rising above the current human condition.
And the moon behind is a reminder of the night side.
The ancient city of Ur in Samaria was dedicated to the moon god.
Our priesthood is the priesthood of Ur.
We're doing this interview, and you know what?
I don't even know where you are.
What part of the country are you in?
I'm in Washington State.
Washington State.
Alright, so you're on Pacific Time, but nevertheless, it's ten to two or so, you know.
Now, are you a night creature?
Are you nocturnal by choice?
Yes, I am.
I go to bed around 8 p.m.
and I get up usually around 4 a.m.
4 a.m.?
Yes.
Wow, that's almost a farmer!
I meant nocturnal as in do you stay awake during the dark hours and you almost, you know, you sleep the dark hours, huh?
Well, that's when it's important to be doing work without a body and lucid dreaming.
Do you sleep in a bed?
Yes.
Yes, the coffins are just not comfortable this time of the year.
So you're disclaiming the whole coffin thing anyway, laughing it off and saying it's a bunch of baloney.
It's once again representative of a lot of fears.
The original mythology in our culture of vampires was suitably debunked, I would say, in a book by, I think his name was Barber, put out by Princeton Press, explaining how misunderstandings about the nature of physical death produced a lot of the Vampire mythology, but at the same time if you go back with open eyes and look at what's been written in the oldest writings of the different religions, you find that frankly the earliest versions of the different gods were vampiric very definitely, but they didn't necessarily sleep in coffins.
That seems to be a more modern... So there's nothing to it?
I would say nothing to it, yes.
Then how can you let Hollywood get away with this?
Depicting you in such a, I don't know, ragged fashion?
It's really very useful.
What I'm doing here is extremely rare.
I do believe this is the first time we have discussed any nightside topics in mass media to date.
Period.
And so it's a big step, really, in a lot of ways.
And probably the only one.
This is, as I said from the beginning, it's been an experiment into its 14th year, and it's just simply to see precisely how well it will work.
I have to make monthly reports on how well we're doing.
How do you, just guessing, you know, all the lines are sitting here ringing away, people who would like to speak with you, Nemo.
What do you think the reaction, the average reaction of, well, a cross-section of night people would be to what you're saying?
Oh, I imagine that most people will think that it's absolute balderdash, and that's completely understandable.
The key to all of this is that when a person actually wants to explore this, they come with many, many beliefs, and we ask people to believe nothing but to test everything.
Everything that we do is based upon self-validation so that you build knowledge.
It isn't an issue of arguing with someone to prove something is true.
That leads nowhere.
All of this is involved with those few people who really do wish to find out what is so and be able to utilize it.
How many others, assuming we have millions listening right now, how many others of the blood do you think that might be listening that don't know or maybe only suspect they are of the blood?
We speculate that it might be in the nature of 500,000 to a million people out of the 6 million population, but we are not sure.
Still quite a few.
Yes.
Because we're not really sure just how much there is the bridge between where people are and where they could go in order to be able to prove these things to themselves.
We just really don't know.
Once again, this is an experiment.
But a vampire is not made, right?
A vampire is born.
Born with the predispositions, apparently.
However, it does require definite effort in order to achieve that potential and actualize it.
When, out of curiosity, Nemo, when in your life did you realize, oh, I'm a vampire?
When was that?
Oh, I would say that was about 20, 25 years ago.
Really?
You don't sound that old.
How old are you?
I'm in my late fifties.
First body?
Yes, sir.
The only one I remember.
Let's be honest here.
All right.
Does a vampire that takes a new body have all his memories intact and all his consciousness has moved forward?
Those who have done so state so.
We assume that's the case and it does seem to be the case.
If you deal with someone who has had memory lapses in a normal situation, an Alzheimer's patient, sometimes in the early stages it's really difficult to realize how much they are confabulating as opposed to actually remembering.
That's a very good point.
But it does seem that it does make the transition for those people who do this.
Nemo, we're at a break point here.
So, rest your wings and whatever.
We'll be right back.
Nemo is a vampire.
A real vampire.
You can see his website.
We've got a link to his website.
You have to admit, as you listen to him, that he's very serious, with a good humor I might add, about what he says he is.
And that's a vampire.
From the high desert, I'm another creature of the night.
My name is Art Bell.
Be right back.
Baby, take my hand, don't fear the reaper We'll be able to fly, don't fear the reaper
Baby, I'm coming Ah, la, la, la, la
How about a free seat?
I'm lost in the night No control to the wall
Something's breaking, wearing white As you're walking down the street
Of my soul You take my soul, you take my self-control
You got to live and only for the light Before the morning comes, no story told
You take my self, you take my self-control Another night, another day goes by
I never stop myself to wonder why You have to forget to play my role
You take my self, you take my self-control I, I live among the creatures of the night
I haven't got the will to try and fight Against a need tomorrow's bright
Just a destiny that's right Tomorrow never comes, I say it's night
To reach Art Bell in the kingdom of Nigh From Wust of the Rockies, dial 1-9-1
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222 or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
To recharge on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them
dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
Where we can say, almost without sounding too amazed, we're interviewing a vampire.
Yes, Coast does this kind of thing.
We're interviewing a vampire.
Nemo is his name.
He's a real vampire, as far as that goes.
And I'm trying to learn, actually, as much as I can about vampirism.
And I'm trying not to make too many jokes, but it's really hard.
Anyway, we'll get back to Nemo in a moment because I do know he is serious.
Once again, here's Nemo, a real vampire.
Nemo, this is something I'll apologize head down for, I have to really ask, I just do, because I've seen every vampire movie I've probably ever made, so many of them, and I noticed that vampires seem to have a particular interest in women, and women in low-cut dresses particularly.
And, you know, I was going to ask about that, whether it was actual exposure to the neck or just, you know, the... Well, anyway, so... But you know what?
Then I realized that we all have that interest, so... But there isn't anything to that beyond that, is there?
Not that I'm aware of.
Just wanted to shake that one loose.
Well, it's not a problem.
One of the things that we think about the most as human beings, other than probably commercials or sex and...
Well, heck, that's all right.
That's right.
Endless immortal sex.
pushed aside for the holy tracts that's all right uh... that's right uh... endless uh...
immortals x one uh... like to be worked out like death to be way worse you
know way worse uh... so it doesn't sound like that and
Now, vampirism embraces certain beliefs about our world, right, and about our future, our world's future, and the future for human beings.
What is it you believe?
Well, apart from the idea that it's a belief as so much as we've been taught, and that we're seeing happen, but the temple teaches that consciousness is primary.
The usual view that most people have is that matter is primary, and that the physical universe generates human beings, generates mind, much as liver oozes bile.
And we take the opposite perspective.
It's only really been, oh, I would say in the last 10 or 15 years I'm holding a book in my hand written by a physics professor in Eugene, Oregon, at the University of Oregon, Amit Goswami, PhD.
You wrote an excellent book called The Self-Aware Universe, which is one of the very first Western explanations for the concept that consciousness is the foundation of reality and not the other way around, not matter.
Nemo, it's really interesting that you should say that.
I have come to have certain beliefs with regard to consciousness, mass consciousness, and the power that is potentially behind it.
I really do think I believe that there is a power there.
I've seen it.
Well, actually, I just plain believe it, Nemo.
There's a great, untapped, unknown, mass consciousness power that I won't tamper with, but I recognize the fact that it is there.
What we would say is that that is you.
We have a procedure called the De-Identification Principle which is taught at Second Circle in detail.
Second Circle?
Second Circle.
There are five circles or five grades of accomplishment within the temple based on written testimony from the members to their accomplishment.
Second Circle is where a person has validated that the temple is real and not just a joke and that life force is real.
If you wish, I can explain the others very quickly.
Sure.
The third circle is the priesthood of Ur.
That's where people have validated that the undead gods are real, and they've also taken an oath of fealty.
Then the fourth circle has validated that applying the nine laws of magic, which are explained in our works, which are how to function with that precise issue you're describing, the consciousness which is you, which we call the dragon, the self.
Then to produce real results, when they're obtaining that, then they testify and validate and enter fourth circle.
Fifth circle has validated the nature of the self, which we call the dragon, and has experienced the twilight perspective that we call lucid waking.
Our simple perspective is to view reality as a dream.
Waking up in a dream at night, called lucid dreaming, tends to give you more control over the elements of the dream.
To wake up in this dream is lucid waking.
That's the twilight and that is the high goal of the temple to create lucid waking.
So we have nine laws of magic which are structures based on a four-dimensional model that explains using these dimensions with a detailed diagram precisely how and why to manipulate the very thing that you're talking about.
I would suggest that Your concern with backing away from it is really impossible.
You're it, to begin with.
It's just an issue of do you wish to try to work with it, perhaps.
That's not something you have to do.
Well, to answer your question, I've had it sufficiently demonstrated to me that I'm aware of what I don't understand about it.
I guess it's like finding gunpowder.
Already prepared with a fuse there, and you've got a match, but you don't know what gunpowder is, and that's a little bit the way I feel about this mass consciousness thing.
I don't understand it well enough to toy with the power of that magnitude yet.
Maybe I will someday, but I know I don't now.
What we suggest is that people are doing it all the time already.
I'm sure that's true.
You're doing it unconsciously without awareness.
We try to teach them, all right, here's the controls.
It's like driving a car.
Make sure you put it in the first gear.
Apply the gas steadily.
Make sure you're steering properly.
Look in your rear view mirror if you're going to back up first.
Very simple things that can be applied in order to do what you're doing, but doing it more consciously.
Now again, let's go to a broader...
Let's try this question again and get broader.
Again, the Bible speaks of the future of the world.
What does the Vampire Bible say about the future of the world?
What kind of changes are we going to see?
Is there an apocalypse in our future as there is in the Christian Bible?
Similar, and we do have a chapter called The Coming Apocalypse.
Oh really?
Yes.
Tell me about that.
From the dayside perspective, this is describing on a personal basis and a global basis.
On the personal basis right now, of course, all human beings are still aging and facing physical death.
Yes.
And the apocalypse on that level symbolizes that personal reality.
On a global level, for the world as a whole, it's clear that we're on the brink of incredible changes, which will even change what it means to be human.
For instance, molecular nanotechnology, as envisioned by Eric Drexler in his book, Engines of Creation, from almost 20 years ago, will do for physical matter what computers have done for information in terms of control.
What we now call magic will become science as that comes into reality.
There are six nations with tremendous budgets working on that and breakthroughs occurring all the time.
We really do expect physical immortality right around the corner for ending aging alone.
Seeing old people grow young and no longer having people who are born facing physical death as an inevitability is going to have a tremendous impact on every aspect of society.
Well, wouldn't it have an awfully big impact on vampirism?
Well, we want physical immortality.
We don't like to see people die.
We don't want to have to have, if you will, the next host body.
Yes, I'm clear on that.
But one of the main offers or attractions of your religion, it's with the government registered as a religion, so it's a belief system, right?
It is a belief system, right?
There are people who would debate that.
Buddhism is claimed to not be a belief system.
It depends.
Theravada definitely not, I would say.
I don't think that ours is by that definition either.
But we are definitely a religion in that we hold to a doctrine.
Most religions have some sort of ritual.
Yes.
Ritual within them.
Do you have ritual within vampirism?
Yes.
We recommend the calling of the undead gods, which we call communion.
In the Vampire Bible, it's a structured approach.
To make initial contact, we recommend persons first understand how to draw life force so they'll accumulate a quantity, and then when they go into a ritual, and it does not have to be ritual, but it simply is a good way to structure things so that people basically do it right, if you will, a means to make contact, then the life force that is excess then that has been brought together above what you need is given to those who have been contacting you.
They in turn return it to the member.
This is called the Reign of Mercy.
This carries with it the unconscious learning patterns from that more developed person to help the member advance more rapidly.
Frankly, all knowledge, all skills that we really possess are unconscious.
That's where the memories are.
It is possible to have direct transmission to the unconscious.
In fact, this entire temple approach of going through the conscious mind, we hope will be as effective as the old ways, but it certainly still has to be tested thoroughly.
It does seem to be working.
So, the teachings of the temple are nothing more than attempting to put into words what is transmitted by the undead.
When you were asking about the future, I should also probably mention that From a night-side perspective, the Temple teaches that the current state of human consciousness is quite unstable, fairly recent in terms of history.
Probably one of the most excellent demonstrations, I thought, of this was written by Dr. Julian Jaynes of Princeton in his book, The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind.
We do expect to see that more stable condition come to most people and not very far away, especially as people acquire longer
lives.
So as this consciousness shift happens, it will be tremendously upsetting.
A great deal of violence will probably occur as a consequence, but the final result will
be beautiful.
Most religions might not quite say it that way, but it boils down to about the same thing
in the end.
A great deal of what's out there is the same, yes.
We're going to go through a very rough period, whoever you listen to, but then on the other side it's going to be, I don't know, roses.
Better than roses.
Better than roses.
You're obviously an extremely intelligent person.
You're very kind.
I just, again, calling yourself vampires, even though perhaps that is an accurate description, even loosely based on what you said.
Would seem to have such a downside as to not be worth doing, but rather to rethink your name.
I'm not sure I'd need a little time, but I mean something with a better public relations ring to it.
I want to let the audience ask you some questions, if you wouldn't mind.
Not at all.
Okay, good.
West of the Rockies, you're on air with Nemo.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi.
My name is Ingrid.
I'm from Utah, Arizona.
Ingrid.
Ingrid, you're going to have to speak up good and loud.
Okay.
I actually have a couple questions.
One is, I am very energy sensitive.
I absorb any energy that surrounds me, bad or good, no matter.
Earlier in the show, I heard you say that some people are predispositioned to vampism, born, if you might say.
Yes.
How would you know if you are one of those people?
And if you are, does that make you vulnerable, amazed, if you don't understand yourself?
Good question.
An excellent question, and it would sound to me as though you probably are and definitely do have that sensitivity.
We have some people who come to us who have to develop that sensitivity, but they have other things that drive them to be with us.
One thing you did mention I might want to suggest that you might want to challenge.
When you absorb energy that is given off by other human beings or animals to a lesser extent, it's just not as strong, and you feel that it has a negative or a positive connotation or it's carrying a thought force or emotions of a certain nature, be careful that that isn't something that you may not be projecting.
Generally, gasoline is gasoline.
You might get octane of different types, but fundamentally it's still gasoline, it isn't water.
The emotions, I've had a lot of people over the years who will have this concern initially when they're working with this, that, oh, well, what if I see someone who's really a negative person, they're really unhappy, they're miserable, whatever, and I pick up their energy.
I'm also picking up these emotions.
It does not have to be.
You can recognize eventually if you'll test it.
That this is actually a projection that you're adding to your perception.
Okay, but let me jump in with a pedestrian question based on that.
If you should absorb or suck some negative energy from an individual, in what manner would that affect you directly?
I would suggest that there isn't any.
I would suggest that we make it positive or negative by assigning to it our own thought forms, if you will.
Well, yes, but assuming the person is projecting thought forms that are negative, then there's negative energy, and if you should happen to absorb that instead of the positive stuff, do you become, in turn, negative or feel negative as a result of that, like, ooh, bad blood?
Let's give an example that probably will make it a little clearer, and I'll try to answer If you are encountering someone who is, as you say, behaving in a negative way, they're shouting at you, they're calling you names, they're threatening you, you'll have a reaction.
You'll have a reaction.
Now, if you're going to assume that when you're absorbing the energy that is being radiated out of their body, that that is carrying that communication, what you're really doing is you are adding to the akasha, to the life force which is coming to you, the assumption That this is also affecting you.
It really comes down to, the real question is how do you deal with people who behave in that way?
Then would you say there is no bad energy?
It's not good or bad in that sense?
It's just energy and so it wouldn't matter?
Exactly.
But it can carry the force of thought and will and emotion and make it easier to pick up on those things.
People who practice this usually become quite sensitive.
All right.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Nemo.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi.
This is Sapphire.
Hi, Sapphire.
Actually, I am very familiar with Nemo and the Vampire Temple.
Oh, you are?
Yes, I am.
I'm actually a member of the vampire community.
You are?
Actually, I would rather refute some of the things you're saying.
You would?
Yes, I'm pretty sure Nemo might know me or not, but... Sounds like a schism, Nemo.
Here it comes.
Okay, go ahead.
I was wondering if you would like to discuss his affiliations with the Vampire Church of Satan, the Old Business Card, the Coder Rings, and a few other things you could buy off the site, and currently still can, under the Emporium section.
And also, I kind of want to dispute the facts he makes about... Well, one thing at a time.
Okay.
So, how about that?
Alright.
First of all, I am a member also of the Church of Satan, which I became familiar with about, oh, I guess that was about 15 years ago.
You are?
You didn't tell me that.
Oh, well, not a problem.
Well, I... And I'll add that I have joined many organizations... You could have put it in your resume.
Oh, I didn't realize that would be very critical.
Well, it's pretty interesting, though.
However, I should be very clear that the vast majority of the people who belong to the Temple are not involved with that particular religion at all.
I'm just an exception to the rule, fundamentally.
Our webmaster is a part of that, and the Emporium that she's referring to is at the Church of Satan website.
Which does carry a couple of items that are related to the temple or has in the past.
Pretty creepy anyway.
I appreciate you bringing it up, ma'am.
And what else was there?
Well, another thing I wanted to... I remember this site when it was first started, one of the very early versions of the site.
I've been involved in the vampire community for a number of years.
I'm affiliated with a larger website out there, and some of the largest supporters and resource providers, such as sanguinarious.org.
A few others, like I mentioned, are the actually vampire church, which is not actually a church, but a Kind of like a haven resource.
And most of the things regarding vampirism aren't really... Listen, listen, listen.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
I'm going to hold you over, alright?
Okay.
Alright, you stay right there.
Two vampires online now.
Nemo and My Caller.
This should be intensely interesting as there appears to be some sort of schism in vampirism.
I'm Marcel.
Well, there's schisms in most religions, so I suppose why not here, too?
Oh, I've got to ask the light question, don't I?
Into the light.
Vampires are not supposed to go into the light.
Find out more about tonight's guest.
log on to coasttocoastam.com log on to coasttocoastam.com
log on to coasttocoastam.com Across the long black road, to the darkened sky, in its
rage.
But the white bird just sits in her cage, unknown.
Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies at 1-800-9-4.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
To rechart on the toll-free international line.
He's here by dispensation.
Special dispensation this morning.
and dial 800-893-0903. This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nye.
Rarely do you get the opportunity to interview a real vampire. He's here by dispensation,
special dispensation this morning. His name is Nemo. Vampires just generally don't do
Not the real ones, and this obviously is a real vampire.
So, it's your opportunity to ask a question.
I'm Art Bell.
Well in a moment we will continue the inquisition.
We have one vampire here, Nemo, and what are the odds of that?
Well, here he is.
But then you have two vampires in the same program.
The odds of that are just unreasonable, completely.
Young lady, welcome back.
Thank you.
Continue, please.
Well, I'm familiar with the organization.
I've seen it on the web for a long time, and I've read a lot of the articles.
One of the things I've seen I know is a reprint from the book itself is, I believe, their tome or a codex in a way.
Basically it's called the Vampire Creed.
I am a vampire. I worship my ego and I worship my life.
For I am the only God that is.
And my research on this organization and the history of it is way more cultish than anything.
I was going to mention the word cult.
I mean even some almost mainstream religions until they actually get to be mainstream.
They're called cults.
And most of the things you talk about, I mean, they're not even really vampires in itself.
For those who have been around the vampire community and really know what it is, it's not a religion.
Alright, you are a vampire.
You're claiming this, right?
Yes, I am.
Alright, in what way do you see yourself differently than Nemo has described himself so far?
Well, some of the things he describes are untrue.
The need for energy is very much an issue with vampirism.
But the need for energy can take on many forms, and it can be obtained in many forms.
One of the things I do know that they dispute is the sanguinarian version of it, or Sanguinism version of blood drinking and has often referred
to those who do consume blood to be psychos and in many truth is not blood drinking is
an worldwide cultural thing that has been you know known for I mean
Thousands of years and a multi-cultural hit around the world and you're a blood drinker
I actually do both I can consume energy and I can't think of the blood
I have blood before so here in emo. We would seem to have a more traditional
Vampire but not it's not like oh, I'm going to go out and suck someone on the neck or attack the middle of the night
Well, where else do you get it?
Vampirism, real modern day vampirism, actually requires a vampire and a donor.
Most vampires use screen donors who will undergo blood testing, HIV screening.
These days you've got to be careful, yeah.
I mean, this is the day and age we know HIV exists.
We know it.
Absolutely.
And it's not an age of myth and fantasy.
But blood in itself is a physical form, and it's normally different than when you consume anything else you eat.
However, most have found that when they consume blood, they are able to draw energy more directly.
Well, what about it, Nemo?
I mean, you're on the cleaner side of things here, from some people's point of view.
She's saying, look here, there is something to the drinking of blood.
You apparently know this.
Is this a schism within vampirism?
Well, the thing is that we have stated over and over that within lies fact and fancy, truth and metaphor, and discriminate with care.
This is built from the beginning to the end of what we do.
We have three... Alright, somebody's got on a radio.
Whoever it is, turn it off, please.
It's important you do or I can't continue.
Turn off your radio.
Not on my side.
I'm sorry.
I advise... That's fine.
Just keep your radio off, dear.
Alright.
Go ahead, Nemo.
We have what we call Temple Law.
It's at the website.
And what we say is that there are three things that we forbid our members to do.
And these are the only things that we ask them to please not do.
One is drink no physical blood.
The second is perform no criminal act.
And third, to not deny the temple's authority.
We view the many people who apparently have blood desires and fetishes and patterns as weird, huh?
Well, what we look at is we say, you know, they kind of missed what we see to be reality from our own experience.
It doesn't mean that it's necessarily wrong.
So far it has still remained legal.
I can see where down the road it will probably become illegal if only required.
Some nutcase somewhere who will drink the blood out of the person they murder, and then laws will come down.
So we looked in advance for that and said, let's be clear.
Let's not confuse the reality with the metaphor.
Now that doesn't mean that other people... Okay, now wait a minute.
He has just said, young lady, that what you're referring to is just metaphor, that it's not the real McCoy, but yet you're saying it is.
Vampirism is not as limited as religion itself.
I mean, those who do drink the blood and have the energy, they awaken to this very young in their lives, but sometimes don't realize what it is.
And it's something very natural you're born with.
If you think about it from a biological perspective, when you're in the womb, how do you first get your nourishment from your mother?
It comes in through the bloodline.
You're attached to the uterine wall, and you're getting all your nutrients through blood.
Blood contains chemicals, nutrients, everything else your body needs.
It passes through.
Drinking it, you know, is one form.
Not everyone will drink blood.
Some will do it, as he states, using energy similar to draining other people in large crowds.
Some actually will drain donors directly energy-wise.
It takes some concentration, but it is a common practice and it is very well known.
You need to get hold of me privately.
Can you do that?
I give my email address on the air, so you contact me privately, all right?
Okay.
All right.
I'll look forward to getting an email from you.
Thank you.
So Nemo, you were trying to be polite, but I mean, would you put her in the class of a mental defect?
No, no, I can't say that.
I don't know her well enough.
Well, but it sounds like that's what you're saying of all those who drink blood.
I think that of people who are attracted to the vampire mythos, that there are some who have the potential to actually do that, and that they basically confuse, as I said before, the reality with the symbolism.
These are the people, you were talking about Hollywood, I would say they're the ones who That doesn't mean that it's permanent, but let's be quite straightforward, that's not exactly a very acceptable practice in polite company.
So it's highly sexually charged.
There's a lot of blood fetish issues that are attached to that, and we just simply wanted to be very clear from the beginning that this religion has nothing to do with that.
She did say one thing that I think is perhaps relatively valid.
It is possible to draw in life force when a person might be drinking blood from someone, but also from having a handshake, from having a close experience with them, from being in the same area.
There's many, many ways to do that.
That is probably the major thing.
We do not permit people to drink liquid human blood in the Temple of the Vampire.
It is just simply because it is not necessary.
I'm not really qualified, but I have read people who dispute the nutritional value.
That's about the best I can do.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Nemo.
Hello.
Hello.
Ron, Colin from Savoy, Texas.
Hello, Ron.
Hello.
I have two questions for Nemo.
Okay, Nemo, you've mentioned, this is question number one, that you can draw energy from humans and animals.
Can you draw energy from, let's say, trees and plants?
Yes, I do believe that is possible, Ron, and part of the issue is that the energy which comes through the human body is highly condensed, and it's also in parallel with our own.
The morphogenic shape that surrounds the human body, that helps to maintain physical reality of the body, matches our own.
The further you move away from a human being, the less that you're easily able to relate to that.
After all, pranayama, from the different yogic practices, is just another version of working with life force, and commonly yogis will work with simply drawing it in from the atmosphere.
This requires a tremendous amount of work, though, years and years.
When a person who has the sensitivity to feel it does it with a human being, they absorb some of the human energy, things are entirely different.
I might mention also that with the yogic approaches, there's so much attention paid to being in the presence of a master, having darshan, and that is probably because they are finally tapping into Human life force, which is more powerful.
Okay, and you could also take from plants or any living thing.
Energy is energy.
Yeah, energy is energy.
What about the old light thing?
Is there anything about that?
There's probably not.
I'm sure it's part of the old myth, right?
What do you mean about vampires and the sunlight?
Yeah, the aversion to sunlight.
Is there anything to that?
I mean, sometimes myths have little particles of reality in their base somewhere way back there.
It does seem that when people are working with out-of-body experience, initially, that there is a large problem with electromagnetic forces in their presence which can cause difficulty.
Consequently, many people have reported difficulty.
I've seen it myself when I was first working with this, that being in sunlight, it's rather more difficult.
But it is something that you can rise beyond so that it's no longer an influence.
So I would say that it does have an influence, and that's probably where some of this came from.
But although I don't prefer to get suntans, skin cancer is something to be avoided.
You remind me of some spokespeople I had from NASA once.
They could say things, and they sounded extremely reasonable, as you do, but I just have this feeling that, Nemo, you're leaving some parts out.
Don't think so.
There are things I would like to add, but I don't think there's any hidden knife here that I'm holding back.
There are issues that I could go into detail concerning what we do, attitudes, procedures, etc.
I don't think.
I'm just trying to think.
Is there something here that I'm hiding from Art Bell and his audience?
Well, there's hidden stuff in all religions.
I mean, the Vatican has, you know, catacombs of stuff.
Anyway, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Nemo.
Hello.
Hey, question.
Why would people really want to, like, you're talking about being a vampire.
Would that include, like, immortality, living forever?
But the question is, why would someone want to live forever?
If you're going to sit there and watch your loved ones die on you?
Yes, that is one of the drawbacks, and there are two things to be taken into account in my opinion.
This is an excellent question.
Even if there are younger people listening who have not had someone that they know as an adult pass away, most people have had pets, cats, dogs, and that can be very difficult.
The answer in my opinion is, first of all, that it is painful to have anything go wrong.
However, the people who are drawn to following this path and to embrace, to literally say, I'm not going to be a spiritual tourist.
I'm going to commit to life on earth.
I'm going to be here.
I'm going to remain conscious.
I'm going to build my memories.
I'm going to try to acquire knowledge about the way things are, and I'm going to assume that the glass is half full instead of half empty.
Now that means that there will be things that will come that are tragic.
But there will also be new things.
The fact that we're speaking on a telephone 150 years ago, impossible.
100 years ago, no radio.
Look at the things that are on the internet.
There are so many amazing and wonderful things that are coming to us that it's as if for the first time in human history we're just getting the sense that the curtain is about to rise on the real show.
It's a shame when people give up before they have their opportunity to be there.
I would just say to anyone who's even feasibly considering staying around to do so.
Now, you said, well, gee, let me think, is there anything I'm not telling Art Bell?
Well, you are a member of the Church of Satan.
Now, many in the audience would think of Satan as The great liar, the great master of untruth and negative things, and all the rest of it.
So, well, think again.
Is there anything else you're not telling me about?
I should mention just briefly, because one of the reasons I did not make a point out of the fact that I happen to personally be a member of the Church of Satan, I had the pleasure to meet Anton LaVey, who founded that church before his death.
I met him back in around 1986, and it was really remarkable.
The reason I got to meet him was because many of the things that he put together in building his religion paralleled things that I knew to be correct.
This had nothing to do with the Satan of mythology.
He used that fundamentally in order to shock people, to get their attention, and because he thought it was fun.
A very brilliant man and excellent musician.
I'm delighted to know him, and I have many friends who are in that.
But quite frankly, people who actually investigate that particular organization discover that they also forbid criminal activity, and basically are nice people if you get to know the people who are really there.
I have belonged to other organizations of many different kinds.
I have never belonged consciously, and I'm pretty sure still am not.
A member of any criminal organization, but I'm willing to go and look at anything in order to see if there's something valuable there.
Are you a member of the Communist Party?
No.
No, okay.
So there you are.
The Temple does favor the concept of representational democracy.
Oh.
Thinks that that was a very useful thing.
Okay.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Nemo.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi.
Hi, how are you?
This is the first time I've ever talked with you.
Well, welcome.
Yeah, how are you?
And Nemo, well, I've been listening to you all evening and I want to know that Satan is a deceiver and how he comes in gentle as a lamb.
Yeah, I just said that to him.
Okay.
And he is that, isn't he?
He's gentle, he's obviously intellectual and smart and pretty damn smooth.
Exactly.
But you know, I've been, people have taken my energy without my permission and I didn't like it.
But I know how I just would go back and take mine back.
I wouldn't take any other because I said no, I said God, I'm going to take mine back.
And if you're feeding off of people and that's the only way you get your energy, and you can't get it from God because you don't believe in Him or worship Him, isn't that sort of like you're feeding off other people and that's how you survive?
Well yeah, of course that's it!
Well, don't you find there's a dead end?
I mean, like, after a while, you're just going to be feeding off one another, and then there won't be any... Well, actually, there won't be any energy left, because it'll be dead.
No, you weren't listening.
Nemo said he only took the excess energy.
That sounds a little... A little different?
Yeah, I know, it sounds a little like a political correct kind of thing to say.
You know, that if he were taking all the energy, that's what I meant between reading between lines, and, gee, Art, have I told you everything?
Well, I wonder, why does he have to take any at all?
Doesn't what he believes in fulfill him?
Nemo?
There are really two questions that I'm hearing.
One is under the assumption that when, for instance, you felt that someone was taking energy from you, you prayed to God to have it returned to you?
No, I didn't say that.
I said I knew how to take it back.
It was like a tentacle reaching out, you know, in the invisible realm.
Probably while I was off guard.
So like a tentacle reaching out, I just kind of followed the trail back and said, give it back and let them know that don't do it.
I would suggest that we are discussing two different things.
What you are describing was actually an effect on your emotions and thoughts that you felt was being disturbed by another person, probably telepathically from your description.
And that you rejected that invasion, if you will, or that attempt to manipulate you or draw away from you.
Sounded like that.
The energies that we work with are radiated.
They are thrown off.
They are not wanted by the person.
Think about going to a rock and roll concert and all the energy that just radiates.
That's going to go nowhere.
Why let it be wasted like that?
That's fundamentally it?
The other item was you mentioned God, and I'm going to suggest that the Enlightenment is breaking free of the illusion regarding this, that you are a separate self to begin with.
The de-identification teaching from the temple rapidly allows the member to validate that the personal self is not really there.
Listen, Nemo, we're out of time.
I'm sorry.
I can't control that.
I wish I could.
If I could, we wouldn't have turned the clocks back like that, so I can't.
And Nemo, thank you for being here.
I've never interviewed a vampire before, and you have been great.
Slippery-tongued a bit, but great.
And so, thank you for being here, and I'll probably have you back at another time.
I think you are correct.
I've got to go.
Thank you, and take care.
That's Nemo the Vampire, and you know, you must admit that He gave it more than lip service.
Heh.
I'm sorry.
He really was pretty good.
Silvery-tongued devil, huh?
Yeah.
Anyway, listen.
We'll be back tomorrow night, unless the apocalypse happens.
Good night.
It's 2 a.m.
and we're in London.
And it's 3 a.m.
because I'm still warm.
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