Art Bell

All Episodes

Previous Next

Oct. 26, 2003 - Art Bell

02:49:53

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Induced After Death Communication - Dr. Allan Botkin

Participants

Main voices

55:16

dr allan botkin

01:08:11

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all.
		Good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's many time zones on Marvel and this is Coast to Coast AM Weekend.
		Smile.
		How you doing?
		Lots to talk about tonight, and it's hard to know where to begin.
		I want to get a couple of smaller things out of the way on my webcam right now.
		You know me in flight, right?
		Well, Bob Crane sent me this new electric helicopter.
		and It's a radio-controlled electric helicopter, and.
		So my wife and I remote and I took it out into the yard.
		And we don't have grass here in the desert.
		Thank you very much.
		We retain the desert motif here.
		And so we took it out to our front rocks.
		And we actually went out of the road and set it down.
unidentified		And whew!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that was so much fun.
		Came down in a tree, no harm done, and we've been out flying it several times now.
		So Ramona actually took that photograph.
		That's of our little helicopter about 30 feet up in the air.
		It's about hovering at about 30 feet, and then it took off and zoomed over my antenna and headed toward the power lines.
		We went, oh no, you know, but she came down nicely and a tree unhurt.
		So that's what's on the webcam.
unidentified		That's the helicopter at about 30 feet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I want to get this in because it is very important.
		This coming next week, as many of you know, some of you will not.
		I'm going to be doing Ghost to Ghost, the special presentation on Friday night, Saturday morning.
		And I want to do something a little special this year.
		So bearing in mind that I want the best, the scariest, real ghost stories.
		And they're not hard to get.
		Ghost stories are not hard to get because they are Legion.
		They are everywhere.
		They are worldwide.
		And they're certainly in this country, across this country.
		So many of you have very legit stories to tell, and that's what I want.
		So in addition to taking calls from the audience at large, I'm going to ask that those of you that have really good ghost stories to tell on the air, please give me a brief synopsis.
		Now that means brief, you know, a paragraph or two.
		Not the whole thing, but just a brief synopsis.
		And include your telephone number and email this to me.
		I amartbell at mindspring.com.
		That's A-R-T-B-E-L-L lowercase at mindspring.com.
		Or even artbell at AOL.com.
		Either way it'll get to me.
		And include your phone number.
		Be sure and include your phone number because next Friday night, Saturday morning, I will pick what appears to be the cream eau de crop and then perhaps call you, which means that you've got to stand by your telephone.
		Now, please, no, cell phones.
		Cell phones are defective, insidious, lousy-sounding things that should never go on the air.
		So try to make it a landline, if you would, please.
		But do send me that email with a brief synopsis.
		And don't forget the phone number, and we'll call you, and we'll sort of intersperse those calls with the audience at large.
		And that'll be Ghost to Ghost coming up.
		One you don't want to miss.
		Believe me, you don't want to miss it.
		That'll be Friday night, Saturday morning.
		So three days for me next weekend.
		Friday, Saturday, once Sunday.
		All right.
		The big news out west, out here in the West, is the catastrophe that's underway in Southern California right now, the fire.
		Wildfires that have now burned for days have merged into walls of flames stretching across miles, miles in parts of Southern California.
		13 people dead so far, at least 650 homes, that number is going up fast.
		650 homes up in flames.
		Overmatched firefighters are frustrated, as you can imagine.
		A wind that I told you about headed their way indeed got there.
		And now, the latest forecast I saw on CNN indicated up to 45 mile-an-hour gusts for Monday as well.
		Not good.
		Not good.
		The state's largest fire in eastern San Diego County caused at least nine deaths, including two died inside their car as they apparently tried to escape the flames.
		That's a quote from the sheriff of San Diego.
		Now, earlier tonight, I was getting news that because there's so much smoke and for a myriad of reasons, flights in and out of LAX were either delayed or canceled.
		USA Radio News at this hour, at the top of the hour, said LAX has closed.
		Los Angeles Airport has closed, according to USA Radio News.
		That's very serious.
		The Monday night football game that was going to be at Qualcomm is being moved to Arizona for obvious reasons.
		I mean, this is really serious stuff in Southern California.
		I have a lot of friends there who are right on the very edge of this blaze.
		People I talk to on ham radio.
		Now, I would like to say to those of you on the phone right now, if you're calling for some other reason, please hang up and let some people in the area where the fires are and where they are threatening and close try to get through on the various phone lines.
		If you wouldn't mind, please.
		I'd like to hear from some people in the area for obvious reasons.
		Nobody quite knows how all these fires could have started.
		You know, I hear up to 14 fires now.
		Some of them have become one, some no doubt set by human hand.
		There have been some reports already surfacing of that kind of thing going on.
		There are people in Southern California I'm talking to near the virus right now, and they're thinking it's some sort of terrorism.
		Well, of course, there's no way to verify that.
		But you can imagine why people are beginning to think that, can't you?
		These fires are popping up everywhere.
		Now, I've got a very good friend down there, Chuck, who is a tower climber.
	Chuck is crazy as a loon in terms of climbing towers.
	I mean, he will go up a tower that I would never even think about going up, Chuck Razor.
	Anyway, he sent a wonderful photograph that he took of a fire in the Simi Valley area.
	You've got to get a sense of how really incredibly awful this is.
	Awful.
	So right on the front page of Coast to Coast AM, you'll see Simi Valley Fire.
	This was sent to me by Chuck a couple hours ago.
	And if you click on the picture or where it says click here, you can get the larger picture of the cell site in the, if you look carefully, you'll see the freeway there.
	And the cell site that was in the picture is now history toast goodbye.
	It is a wall of flame as far as the eye can see at the horizon, a wall of flame.
	And I know it's hard for many of you to understand the magnitude of what's going on all across the country, but this will give you a little sense, a little taste of the horror of what's going on in Southern California right now.
	And again, late news, LAX closed, according to USA Radio News.
	Just literal miles and miles of walls of flames in Southern California.
	It is catastrophic.
	More in a moment.
unidentified		More in a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Iraq, there's a great controversy going on over whether things are getting better or not.
		And on the one hand, the administration is constantly telling us we're getting all the bad news.
		Well, it's true, we are.
		Heading the news, the U.S. Occupation Authority retreated from its headquarters after Iraqi insurgents boldly attacked the heavily guarded hotel with a missile barrage that killed an American colonel, wounded 18, and sent visiting U.S. Deputy Defense Secretary Schoering for safety.
		Indeed, it was a very bold blow right at the heart of the U.S. They had a whole back of a truck that was set up to look like something else as a missile battery, and how they got it in there, I don't know, but they did.
		So I understand that maybe things are getting better, but that news is rarely reaching us while the number of deaths almost on a daily basis are.
		Members of both parties are accusing the White House of stonewalling the Federal Commission investigating the September 11, 2001 attacks by blocking its demands for documents despite threats of a subpoena.
		I call on the White House to turn over the documents they are withholding from the Independent Commission and do it now.
		That's Senator Joseph Lieberman, a Democrat from Connecticut, co-author of the legislation that created the Independent Commission.
		Wow.
		Tough words.
		Haven't heard talk like that since Watergate.
		And here's a little lighter news.
		Could use a little bit of that.
		In New York, 450 women joined together in a nude photo shoot.
		The women crossed their arms to keep warm in the main concourse of the Grand Central Terminal early Sunday as they prepared to pose for Spencer Tunic's latest human art installation.
		All 450 of them were nude.
		The women all volunteers.
		All volunteers.
		450 women volunteered to just strip it off.
		That's it.
		Arrived at 3 a.m.
		Sunday, stripped off their clothes, and composed their bodies into sculptural shapes and formations meant to imitate streets, buildings, and cityscapes.
		The building was closed to the public during the shoot.
		Oh, well.
		All right, now, let's leap to something that'll send some chills down the back of your spine to be sure.
		This came sailing into my email box.
		Oh, I don't know, a few hours ago from a fellow named Russ, and, you know, I thought it worth getting Russ on the phone to ask him about what you're about to hear.
		It's pretty chilling stuff.
		Hey, Russ.
		Where are you, Russ, in New York?
unidentified		Long Island, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Long Island.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you sent me this audio file, and it stood the hairs on the back of my neck straight up.
		And so I transferred it to CD, and I'm getting ready to play it here.
		You want to tell us what we're about to hear, please?
unidentified		Yeah, sure.
		Well, my friend Marco's wife was hit by a train, Halloween of 1989.
		That's 14 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, that's interesting because it's just in here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My friend's wife that committed suicide.
unidentified		Yeah, she got hit by a train.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was it suicide or was it?
unidentified		Yes, it was suicide.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was suicide.
unidentified		Witnesses say she pulled in.
		You know, she was sitting up front and all the other cars were behind her.
		And as the train was, you know, coming up, she just nailed it and got hit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what's the tape about?
unidentified		Well, I interviewed Marco's daughter because I thought it was kind of interesting.
		It was extremely interesting what he said.
		He told me that when he it was hard, it was difficult for him to tell the children that their mom was dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
unidentified		So he had to, he got his mother for support, and so he took his mother over there.
		But he was telling them in the hallway of the house, and for some stranger, I guess the kids were just in the hallway, so he just was standing there and he was talking to them.
		And he says, Antoinette, he says, Your mom is no longer with us.
		She died today.
		And the little girl, she says, No, Daddy, mommy's right behind you.
		So he turns around, looked, and he, you know, of course he knew she wasn't going to be there, but he didn't see anything.
		But then she says, Daddy, don't you see her?
		She's walking right towards you, Daddy.
		Daddy, she just walked right through you.
		This is what Marco told me.
		So I said, wow, you've got to be kidding.
		And then she said, you know, she went into the living room, and then she said she would come in and visit her at night and sit on the bed, not talk to her, pick up her chain.
		So I thought this was, what was that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is a little five-year-old girl.
		Right.
		And so how did you get...
unidentified		Yes, I, you know, children forget things, and I just figured I would get her over as soon as possible and interview her.
		So, you know, so I did that.
		Marco brought her over one day, and I sat her down, and you'll hear the tape.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Russ, thank you.
unidentified		Sure, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, take care.
		And folks, here it is.
		This is a tape of a five-year-old that you just heard Russ suggest he had recorded.
		It's pretty chilling stuff coming from a five-year-old.
		Listen very carefully.
unidentified		I am talking about my mother died in October 31, Halloween, and it was raining out, and I was staying where mommy was, and I was keeping looking out the window, and all of a sudden, Daddy and Grandma came over, and they told me that mommy died on the train, and I almost started crying.
		Sorry, did you see Mommy at all, let's say, the past couple of nights last night?
		Yeah, I saw her last night, too.
		What was she doing?
		She was picking up her dress like this.
		She was, like, holding her dress up because it was getting too long.
		Like, mommy was getting shorter and shorter, and she had to pick up her dress like this.
		Mommy was getting short, short, short.
		And she had to pick off her dress so she won't trip.
		Like, if she trips, she'll just trip right through me.
		I mean, when you see her, do you see her as a regular person?
		I can see through her whole body.
		You can see through her?
		Yeah, like, she was standing in front of the bed.
		I saw the bed right through her.
		Oh, okay, what was my bed?
		I saw her in class.
		In class?
		Yes.
		She was like, she was moving.
		Well, she moved my notebook.
		And I didn't tell my teacher nothing because then I would have to go home.
		I seen a social worker one day.
		When I was in her office, I saw Mommy's Spirit in Mommy's office.
		I was like, oh my God, Mommy Spirit could come in her office too?
		Social worker's office, you mean?
		Yeah, the social worker's office.
		Mommy Spirit came in.
		Mommy's Spirit came in, right in the social worker's office.
		I went, oh, I said, Miss Janet, look at it.
		I see Mommy Spirit.
		And she said she couldn't hear anything.
		And I go, you can't see because if you see, if you she only shows people that she trusts that she will tell nobody, and she only shows it to me, and that's the only person who shows to me.
		Okay, how about the weekends you stay at Wendy's?
		Does mommy go to Wendy's house too?
		Yeah.
		She goes everywhere where I go.
		Everywhere you go?
		Yeah.
		Does mommy move around Daddy's apartment?
		Um, Shoni moves into, um, where you do, um, your writing, your laser face.
		Shall we move into there into my room and then goes out the door into the living room?
		Angela, does mommy see, uh does mommy see, like, those those mask cards daddy put up in that room?
		Yeah, she sees it.
		I was sleeping, um, on, I was, like, sleeping on my dunk bed, and mommy just flew over there.
		I just thought, I saw her, and she was going like this, trying to think.
		She was trying to think if I could hear her or not.
		And she was, and I was, she didn't, I don't know why she couldn't talk.
		But after she stopped going like this, my voice started to get lower and lower, like very low.
		And I couldn't like talk, even talk and talk.
		Because it was, I don't know if Mommy had magic spells or nothing because I didn't even know because it's so hard for me to know about my mother because it's very hard.
		Does mommy s uh tell you why she wanted nobody to see her but you?
		Well, because she thought that she thought that she was going to tell everybody that I'm seeing spirits and she trusts me that I won't tell nobody that I'm seeing spirits except the social worker.
		And she thinks that you're going to be telling the whole world or something.
		Anything else you're going to do you want to say anything?
		No, I can't remember anything else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, there you have it.
		That's pretty odd stuff to listen to, isn't it?
		And there are many ways, of course, that you could look at such a thing, and that would be that a child is seeing what a child wants to see, and that is mommy still being there.
		Although the manner in which she described it, I found to be so dispassionate in a way as almost not to be a concocted story.
		It sounded just like she was telling what she saw.
		And she is but one of millions of Americans who have seen what appear to be ghosts.
		We don't know what ghosts really are.
unidentified		We really don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I guess we're on a constant quest to find out because it means a great deal to all of us, doesn't it?
		The sun is going berserk.
		There's no question about what our sun is doing.
		We've had X flare, X flare, X class flare, one after another, after another, after another, some of them quite sphere.
		And for the Sun to be doing this at this point in the 11-year solar cycle is very suspect and very interesting and very unusual.
		And it is just literally going berserk up there on the Sun.
		And, of course, such talk recalls things that Ed Ames has said in the past about our sun and what may occur one day.
		So, I don't know.
		I look at that.
		Every time I see the new chart, I go, oh, my God, look at that.
		It really is going berserk.
		This song is what I call, or what's being called, an ear worm.
		I'll explain all about an ear worm coming up in a moment.
		From the high desert, this is Coast.
unidentified		Coast.
		Abunda.
		Abunda.
		To access the audio archives of Coast to Coast AM, log on to coasttocoastam.com.
		To access the audio archives of Coast AM, log on to coast.
		To access the audio archives of Coast AM, log on to coast.
		To access the audio archives of Coast AM, log on to coast.
		To access the audio archives of Coast AM, log on to coast.
		Recharge Bell in the Kingdom of Mine.
		From west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-8255-033.
		First time callers may recharge at 17757271222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 17757271295.
		To reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		When the trees are, when the wind blows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a term coined by University of Cincinnati marketing professor James Polaris.
		Unexpected and insidious, the earworm slinks its way into your brain and refuses to leave.
		Symptoms vary.
		Although very high levels of annoyance and frustration are very common, there are numerous potential treatments, but there is no cure for the earworm.
		none.
		It is a term coined by Universal...
		I quickly learned, he said, that virtually everybody experiences earworms at one time or another.
		I think because it's experienced privately and not often a topic of conversation, maybe people really long for some social comparison.
		They want to know if other people experience what they experience.
		Galeris, whose most pervasive personal earworm, Byzantine chants, likely has something to do with his wife's job as a church choir director, has been interested in the topic of earworms for decades now.
		As a musician who now struggles, studies, how the marketeers reach the public, began wondering how widespread stock songs really are, and began doing surveys back in 2000.
		You've experienced it.
		I've experienced it.
		I think most people have experienced it.
		They hear a song and it won't go away.
		It's locked in your brain.
		It's going around and around and around and around in your brain, driving you nuts.
		You need to hear it until your ears bleed and you're cured.
		The only thing that'll cure you is hearing it enough times that you finally say, enough!
		Otherwise, an earworm will wiggle its way through your brain endlessly while you're trying to figure out what something is that's haunting you.
		Music, indeed, can do that.
		It haunts in the way some spirits appear to.
		And that particular song was one, and that earlier one, then one for me, and you just have to sort of keep hearing it.
		Anyway, more.
		Oh, I do want to hear.
		Those were the numbers, and I want to hear from people in the fire area.
		If you're particularly on the front lines of one of these fires in Southern California, the first-time caller line would be a good way to go at area code 775-727-1222.
unidentified		sad music Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's something really big in Campbell County, Tennessee.
		For the past two weeks, over 100 cats have disappeared or have been found half-eaten in Campbell County, Tennessee.
		Yesterday, the Campbell County, Tennessee Sheriff's Department officially opened an investigation into complaints from over two dozen residents of the College Hills section of Campbell County regarding a large smelly primate weighing in at better than 400 pounds.
		Today at 5 o'clock, WATE Channel 6 Knoxville reports that many sightings of a large, smelly primate have been reported during the past 35 years In the rural mountains of Campbell County, Tennessee, which is located about 30 miles north of Knoxville,
		a cryptozoologist showed images of skunk apes to several complainants in Campbell County, and it does appear the primate is either a skunk ape or some other undocumented creature related to the primate family.
		These sightings are from local native residents who are used to seeing bear, panther, and other large creatures in their area.
		They know what they're looking at, and what they're looking at is not one of the above.
		On the first time caller line, you are on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, how's it going?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's going okay, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Okay, I'm in Fontana, California.
unidentified		I'm in between two cities that are basically in the midst of the fire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Yeah, basically, I have most of my coworkers here have had to have been evacuated from their homes, and you can't see the moon, no stars, and it's smoke.
		You can't see anything.
		It's hard to breathe, and it's just terrible over here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, that's what I've been hearing, that it really is catastrophic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The nation right now is getting reports, but I don't think they exactly understand how dramatic and serious this really is.
unidentified		Well, it's difficult for them to see because they're not right in front.
		I took a friend home yesterday, and I was probably 10, 15 minutes away from one of the main areas that were on fire, Old Waterman Canyon.
		That's one of the fires over here.
		It's basically off of the 18 freeway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And that one has tarred up about 300 homes or so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How's your weather there now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How's the wind?
unidentified		Right now the wind is a bit on the calm side, but weather reports are saying that's supposed to be picking up probably by morning, and we've got an advisory going until 2 p.m. tomorrow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, they just closed, according to the network, they closed LAX.
		Just closed it altogether.
		And they're moving Monday Night Football's game.
		It's a big deal.
		650 homes, 27,000, I've heard, without power.
		Do you have power?
unidentified		Yeah, we got power over here, but it's kind of been flickering on and off.
unidentified		We lost two major radio stations on the FM band, and they've been on and off, and one of the major ones that have like an 80,000 range are completely out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, a lot of towers, of course, are located on where else, mountains, along with cell sites and the rest of it, repeaters, and they're all going up in smoke.
		I appreciate Enfire.
		Thank you for your call, sir.
unidentified		Hey, no problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, take care.
		There's somebody from the area.
		It's really something to even contemplate the way it must be in parts of Southern California right now.
		Just a horror.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I'm in Vista, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And it's starting in, I don't know if, do you know where Escondido is?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do indeed.
unidentified		Well, I've heard, I mean, I think tonight we're safe, but the winds pick up, it could hit San Marcos and hit us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
unidentified		Yeah.
		And it's just the sitting on pins and needles.
		It's just getting to everyone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the night sky, are you seeing from your location a glow in any direction?
unidentified		No, uh-uh.
unidentified		I mean, right now, the wind is really good at 5 to 10 miles an hour, but they say tomorrow morning it's going to be picking up again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, current CNN forecast I was watching earlier, they're expecting up to, I don't know, like 45 miles an hour gusts later in the day, so that's not good news.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tuesday, at least, it should calm down, but that's a lot of fire between now and then.
unidentified		Yeah, and I have a co-worker who had a house in Scripps Ranch that he was in the process of closing escrow on another house.
unidentified		And I think his house burned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a lot of homes.
		650 homes already.
		That's a lot of homes.
		It is.
		I appreciate your call, sir.
		Thank you.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And take care.
		People are beginning, as you can imagine, to speculate about the cause.
		I would imagine some of these were torched with human hands.
		It just seems like too many fires, too many fires to be accidental.
		And, of course, it's probably not all accidental.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, hi, Eric.
unidentified		This is Steve calling you from Windsor, Ontario.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Steve.
unidentified		Okay, we got some major stuff going on right now at this very moment live in Baghdad.
unidentified		There's been a series of at least three major explosions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just now?
unidentified		Just in the last few minutes, yeah.
		One is the Ministry of Industry, one at the Red Cross building.
		They think they're car bombs, but they haven't been able to get close enough yet.
		But this is going on right now, and it's pretty big-looking fires and everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you catching this?
unidentified		Live on CNN, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Live on CNN.
		I appreciate the information, sir.
		Thank you.
		You're welcome.
		More going on in Baghdad.
		There you are.
		Well, as I was saying, you try to believe and grasp some of the reports that are suggesting things in Iraq are getting better, and I'm sure in some regard they are.
		Services are coming back and the rest of it, but the frequency and severity of the attacks on Americans and American interests and the new Iraqi government is pretty fierce, to be sure.
		So we've really got ourselves into something in Iraq, and one has to wonder what the exit strategy is going to be and whether that was considered prior to our entry.
		I know certainly the reasons for the entry into the Iraqi war are somewhat at question.
		There are a number of reports indicating the intelligence used was less than convincing and single-sourced when it should have been multi-sourced.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air.
unidentified		Okay, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Yeah, I got a question for you.
		You're familiar with the San Diego area.
		I know that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
unidentified		Do you realize that there's been over 100,000 acres in less than 24 hours go up, which is unbelievable?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, repeat that for me.
unidentified		East of the Rockies, call toll-free, 1-800-825-5033.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		At any rate, my wife, Ramona, just came in and gave me the thumbs up on the story with regard to Iraq.
		Apparently, a series of large explosions going on in the Baghdad area.
		So I guess that is confirmed.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		This is Rick in San Diego.
unidentified		Hello, Rick.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		I had to evacuate earlier today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are an evacuee?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
unidentified		And, you know, it was pretty bad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where is your home there?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		The Rancho Bernardo area.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And at about what time did you have to evacuate, and what were the conditions when you did?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was about 11 o'clock or so.
unidentified		And the conditions at that time weren't too bad.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		But if you looked up in the sky, the smoke was so thick you could actually, it acted as a filter.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		You could see the sunspots on the sun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
		There's some gigantic sunspots now.
		And you're saying there was enough filter from the smoke to look right at the sun?
		Exactly.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		It was just unbelievable.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		I'm sitting at the beach right now because I can't go home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did they not give you a location to evacuate to, or did you just decide I'd rather be at the beach?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		I'd rather be at the beach.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rather be at the beach?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, at least I can watch the peaceful waves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any news on your home at all?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		No.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		They told me that maybe sometime tomorrow I could go back, but that's not certain to give them a call and check in sometime tomorrow morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the pleasure and the pain of living in Southern California, huh?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Every year.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		It's just been so incredible.
		You know, when I got up this morning, my cars were all covered in ash.
		You know, it was just, it was like rain.
		The ash was so thick, it was like, it was raining ash.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have any personal theories on the number of fires?
		I mean, the fact that there are so many.
		Have any theories on that?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I happen to think that some of these, in fact, probably quite a few, especially in the San Diego area, were, you know, set.
		I don't know about the ones up in northern, you know, or central California, Fontana, whatever, San Bernardino.
		But, you know, as of yesterday, we only had one fire, and that was out in Ramona.
		Now we've got half a dozen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Miles, literally miles of fires.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Some of them are linking up.
		O-tai Mesa blazed up today for no good reason.
		You know, it's just way too mysterious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wish you well for you and your home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hope your night at the beach is a peaceful one.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, thank you very much, and I'm glad to hear you back on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
		Take care.
		It'll give you a little sense of what's going on.
		Sometimes it's good, you know, we're so detached in so many ways.
		We hear about things on radio, we hear about things on television, but we're so detached.
		I guess we've seen so much horror, one way or the other, that that's an easy thing to do in the modern world with the electronic media.
		You can become detached and not really understand what it means.
		You hear about it, but not really understand what it means to be facing something like that.
		That's why I thought that Chuck's photograph was so good, the one up on Coast to Coast AM right now.
		Chuck Razor took this, and it'll give you a sense, I think, of what it would be like to have a home and to see what's in this picture coming at you, coming directly at you.
		To sit back for a while and watch the picture and imagine being there.
		Our first-time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		Hi.
		This is Moody in Claremont, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, this is a ham radio friend of mine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Moody.
unidentified		First time caller.
		And thought I'd let you know that I have theories, but more than that, I wanted to talk about the goodness in people and how people came out here in Claremont.
		We lost over 50 houses last night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know you were right on the line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think when I talked to you, you said you were 20 blocks from the fire.
unidentified		Right.
		And I did go up and spend a lot of time at our emergency operations center.
		Within the first hour after we saw the fire coming over the hill, we had over 100 responders, emergency responders, sheriff's department, police departments from neighboring cities.
		It was just magnificent to see them come.
		And then the horror of watching people losing their homes, as we told them, they had to evacuate, mandatory evacuations.
		Yes.
		But it was good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was bad.
		But you saw a lot of good in people.
		I mean, a lot of people turning out to help.
unidentified		Yeah, that was the big surprise, the way they turned out, how they got water up to the fire lines.
unidentified		There were too many people helping at times, but it was just very, very well done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Moody, you're an honorary police chief there, aren't you?
unidentified		I am on the police commission.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the police commission there?
		You said you had some theories.
		You want to air any of them?
unidentified		I don't mind.
		I did an overlay.
		I played with the computer and just started to list and look at sites where most of these fires started.
		And I noticed that most of them started at major freeways that were entrances, major exits or entrances into Southern California.
		Look at Interstate 10, 15 going north, 10 east and West, Highway 26 going out through the valley.
		These were all affected.
		All of these fires were within a mile of those freeways.
		And they essentially cut off transportation in and out of Southern California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		I've heard some people voice theories that there could be terrorist elements at work here.
		It could just be, as you point out, in your freeways, so that's easy access to start it.
		You just, I guess, throw something flammable and go.
		But so surely the hand of man is involved in an awful lot of this.
		Maybe not all, but quite a bit of it.
		Too many fires at the same time like this.
unidentified		I'm at the point now of making an assessment that all except one were man-made.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All except one.
unidentified		The only thing I can look at that really wasn't man-made was the fire down at Tendalden, some live fire rounds down there.
unidentified		Everything else seems to be man-made.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think we've always been this way, Moody?
		Our society, you think it's always been this way?
		You think 20 years ago, 30 years ago, it happened like this?
unidentified		No, I've been in the same neighborhood, the same house for 32 years.
		I've looked at fires in and out of California for many years.
		I've never seen anything like the firestorms we're having now.
		Not the multiplicity.
		I mean, it's just multiple fires and they're going off one behind the other, just enough time to get to the next site.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But something profound has changed in society that we have this now and then.
unidentified		Absolutely.
		Callousness about human life, about your neighbor or whatever.
		And yet in the midst of all of this, you saw the goodness come out in people as they came forth to help.
		Amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, amazing.
		All of it is amazing.
		Our modern world is amazing.
		Moody, thank you.
unidentified		My pleasure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You take care.
		That's Moody, very good friend.
		We talk on ham radio almost nightly.
		There you go.
		East of the Rockies, you're on air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, it's Faye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, dear?
unidentified		I'm in Miami'sburg, Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Miamisburg, Ohio.
		All right, we've only got a moment here because we're coming to the top of the hour.
		So what's up?
unidentified		Well, I just wondered if Moody wasn't right.
unidentified		I mean, about the terrorists.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		Now, be careful.
		Moody didn't say terrorist.
unidentified		Well, you did.
		You alluded to it.
		I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I did.
		What I actually said was that there are friends of mine who are beginning to say things like that, whether there could be terrorist actions involved in something like this.
		That's not to say it's proven, just that people are saying that.
unidentified		I wonder, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do, huh?
unidentified		Yes.
		Just because of the way, you know, like he said, there was more man-made ones than there was anything.
		And I'm going, all these firestorms this year and, you know, things, I don't know, this world's getting crazier and crazier by the minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On that, my dear, we absolutely agree.
		Crazier and crazier by the minute.
		I do appreciate your call.
		Thank you very much.
unidentified		You're welcome, and I'm glad to hear that you're back on the show.
		And I'm curious as to find out about Barbara Simpson.
		Where's she at?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Barbara will be here filling in on Thanksgiving and is retained to continue to fill in for George and myself.
		So there you have it.
		Coming up in a moment, we'll talk to somebody who can help you talk to a dead relative.
		He says, this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Coast to Coast AM.
		Wanna take a ride?
		Call our bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		And to call out on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Ark Bell from the Kingdom of Nive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
		Southern California is virtually on fire as we do this program.
		Virtually on fire.
		The bombs are going off in Iraq.
		And in a moment, we're going to interview Dr. Alan Botkin.
		Dr. Botkin is a licensed clinical psychologist with over 20 years of experience in treating patients who suffer from grief and traumatic loss.
		He's made groundbreaking discoveries.
		For example, he found as a result of experimenting with variations of a relatively new and very powerful psychological procedure called eye movement desensitization and reprocessing, or EMDR, I guess for short, that he could reliably induce in his patients an experience that they believed was actual contact with the deceased person they were grieving.
		After-death communications, or ADCs, are not rare.
		They've been reported to occur naturally and spontaneously In 20% of the entire population of this country, although ADC experiencers have been recognized, these experiences have been recognized as very healing, it's been believed for some time by researchers in the field that these experiences can only occur randomly and spontaneously.
		Dr. Botkin's discovery, on the other hand, which he calls induced after-death communication, or IADC, makes these experiences available to virtually all of you.
		He and his colleagues have induced well over 3,000 ADCs in the last eight years.
		and that ladies and gentlemen is what we're going to talk about in a moment Thank you.
		All right, Dr. Bodkin, welcome to the program.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for having me, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're very welcome.
		I'm curious, what led you into this field of inquiry in the first place?
		I mean, it's not exactly the norm.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		It certainly isn't.
		I didn't intend to end up where I'm at with it today.
		I really stumbled into it.
		I started out, I've been working with primarily males at a VA hospital in the Chicago area with post-traumatic stress disorder, PTSD.
		And these guys were all combat veterans who suffered severe and traumatic losses.
		And for years, I worked for about 20 years on the PTSD unit.
		And for the first 10 or so, we really struggled.
		And life was difficult because once these guys got in touch with their traumatic memories, which we encouraged them to do, that really brought back their experiences in full.
		And it was a very long, painful kind of work we were doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With regard to the human mind, Doctor, I too was in Vietnam.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I didn't know that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At any rate.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Welcome home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		There are a lot of painful memories, and I took a trip back to the Far East, almost went to Vietnam and contemplated going to Vietnam and didn't do it at the last minute for reasons that I'm not even altogether sure of, but I just decided not to.
		What is it about the human brain that when you relive a very traumatic experience, as in war or whatever it is, that there is a process of healing?
		What is it about the human brain that is healed by that process?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Well, as I was saying, at first when we were just talking about these traumatic memories, we really weren't doing a good job at healing them.
		But then EMDR came along, a discovery by Dr. Francine Shapiro in the mid to late 80s.
		And when we started using that, we were one of the first units in the country to start using EMDR on a regular basis.
		We found that for the first time we could fairly rapidly help people heal from their memories.
		You know, one way of asking this is, you know, why is it if Vietnam was 35 years ago, these guys are still reliving, still thinking about it?
		Actually, given the intensity of the traumatic experiences that people have, you know, it's, you know, of course they're going to remember it.
		That's not something you can put away in your mind and close a door and not worry about it again.
		They're so emotionally charged.
		And things in our environment, in our everyday life, trigger that and cause people with PTSD to then relive.
		Now, I've known a lot of people that have gone back and visited Vietnam vets and they talk about there being some kind of healing that goes with that.
		And I know other vets that would not even think about making the trip because they know on some level they're going to be triggered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, my question, though, was, what is it about either a return trip to Vietnam in that case or reliving an experience?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it in the human brain as a psychologist?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Well, the memories, the traumatic memories are so locked in and they replay in one's mind through daily intrusive recollections or through nightmares.
		They play over and over just as the event occurred in real time.
		When one makes a trip to Vietnam and perhaps goes to a, the guy would go to a place where a battle was, where he experienced a trauma, he would see that it's different.
		He would see that what's going on in his mind isn't going on there anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, the reality of today erases the repeating old reality.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Well, going back and visiting Vietnam, I don't think erases it, but I think it can help quiet some of those memories.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		And the only reason I say that is I've talked to a number of vets who did get some healing by going back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's a kind of a reprogramming.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		And that's what EMDR does much more rapidly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've always wondered about that, why that would be a healing process, why it wouldn't just rip open an old wound, but instead it seems to...
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		But then once it's ripped open, once that memory is accessed and the person then sees that, hey, this is all different now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then it can heal.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Then the person incorporates that new information into those old trauma networks in the brain.
		And that can help to some degree.
		I'm not saying it cures traumatic memories.
		The going back part.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I've had some nightmares about Vietnam, and I wake up in the middle of the night, and I'm so angry about having the nightmares that I don't go back to sleep.
		I mean, I'm afraid to go back to sleep or something.
		I don't know, whatever.
		I just won't go back to sleep.
		It's like a real nightmare.
		All right.
		Well, anyway, you are doing research into people meeting their dead relatives and having encounters with them.
		Right.
		I've got a million questions, but I'll go with a few of yours.
		I mean, Jonathan Edwards, James von Prague, I know James, he's a very good friend, George Anderson, all of these people claim to be able to bring us information from dead relatives.
		Do you believe that they are doing that?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		You know, before I stumbled in to what I'm doing, and I basically stumbled in through it through experimenting on variations of this eye movement treatment, I stumbled into something that started to produce these experiences in my patients.
		Now, I strongly differentiate myself from mediums like these folks because I don't have any special powers or gifts.
		I just have a technique that works for my patients.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it sounds very much as though you didn't believe.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Well, I certainly didn't believe.
		As a matter of fact, I thought it was all kind of silly until I started talking to hundreds and then a few thousand patients who had very similar experiences to what these mediums were reporting.
		So I had to go back and take a second look.
		And it does seem that some of these mediums do come up with information at times that goes way beyond chance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		And so I have some interest in that now, but I guess what I offer that's a little bit different is you don't have to go to a medium now to have someone translate messages, and then you don't have to think about whether was that a hit or a miss?
		Is he really doing it?
		You can have the experience yourself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've done enough research now that you must have made up your own mind about the reality or not of what you're seeing.
		Is it real?
		Is it real, Doctor?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Well, kind of what I believe isn't that, I mean, I'll answer that, but what I believe really isn't that important.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		What my patients and clients who have the experience, what they believe I think is important.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it's important to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is important to me.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		After sitting there and listening to a few thousand of these and the conviction with which these people report their experiences, I have come around to lean towards believing that these people are really communicating with the deceased.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		Okay.
		I would have thought that if I had asked you a certain question, I could have probably ruined the whole rest of the interview.
		I would have asked you, I think, whether it would matter whether they're real or not.
		From your perspective as a psychologist, if a person went through a healing experience because they thought they had just communicated with a dead relative and all was well, or whether it really happened, it wouldn't matter that much to you.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		You know, it doesn't matter generally to psychologists when I present this information and I go give a talk somewhere.
		And sometimes I'll present one of my early cases where this just kind of popped out.
		And at first I didn't even know what it was.
		And I ask a room full of clinicians, well, what do you make of this?
		And people say, well, it works.
		You have something that works, or that's closure.
		And from a professional psychological point of view, this heals grief in a way that I don't even think other therapists even imagine can happen.
		It goes beyond what's considered possible.
		These people literally leave sessions happy and their grief apparently completely resolved.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I've got that.
		But not because you gave them some sort of psychological sugar pill and said it was magic and it was for them.
		Because it's real.
		You're suggesting to me that you believe it is real.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Well, I started believing it was real when actually the only formal study I did was my first 83 patients that I attempted to produce this ADC experience on purpose.
		And 81 of those 83 had an ADC.
		So the reliability of the technique was at 98%.
		Out of those 83 people, only 8 of them believed beforehand that such an experience was possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		After their experience, 94% of them were absolutely convinced that they had actually communicated with the dead.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		So there is something very, very convincing about the experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, here's something that bothers me, since I think I'm a believer, and I think you are too.
		Apparently so.
		I read that scientists are able to produce in the human brain with electrodes attached in the right way, dispensing the right amount of current to the right neurons.
		I really don't know about all of that, but they're able to produce in a human subject a near-death experience.
		The tunnel, the relative, the relatives there, the friends, the white, soothing, wonderful, light, the whole ball of wax.
		They're able to induce that scientifically.
		And that makes me scratch my head a little bit about you.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And some of the people who make that argument about NDEs say that these brain mechanisms are triggered in a dying brain.
		And that's why people have this experience.
		Well, when I first started inducing these, and I didn't know what they were, they sounded to me like near-death experiences because in these ADC experiences, people were often frequently went through tunnels, and they very often saw people surrounded by white, beautiful lights and all this kind of stuff.
		And so at first I thought, you know, geez, this sounds like near-death experiences that my patients are having.
		But my patients aren't anywhere close to death.
		They're live, healthy, very healthy people, and they're having the same experiences that NDE people have, and they're not anywhere close to death.
		Plus, my other argument is just because a brain mechanism is responsible for an experience doesn't make the experience not real.
		If I go out in my backyard and look at a tree, certain parts of my brain are going to light up.
		That doesn't mean I'm hallucinating a tree.
		You see what I'm saying?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		I think eventually, once our scientific understanding of this all improves, we're going to see this all goes together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Exactly, how do you induce ADCs?
		How are they induced in a person?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		That's somewhat complicated, and I'll give you the real short version of that.
unidentified		All right.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		All right.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		I started out by using standard EMDR and then I, as I said, I experimented on some variations with EMDR.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And EMDR again standing for?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what that means.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		EMDR was discovered by Francine Shapiro, and essentially her theory on it is it increases brain processing, information processing in the brain.
		When we dream at night, our eyes shift back and forth.
		That's why we call it REM or rapid eye movement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rabbit eye movement in sleep.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		And when we dream, it appears that our brain is actually processing more than when we're awake or at a higher speed.
		It seems like that increased processing causes our eyes to shift when we dream.
		Now, the discovery of eye movement seems to be that if you take a fully awake person and get his or her eyes shifting back and forth, we cause the brain to go into that high processing mode.
		And at first I really didn't buy that when it first came out, but that fits all clinical experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it doesn't fit with the process of sleep, does it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, I thought the human body, when we're asleep, is supposed to be resting, recuperating, regenerating, etc.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, we do, and we regenerate, and we restore, but part of our restoration comes from that a lot of work our brain does when we're dreaming and we're sleeping.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe our brain is defragging.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think that's a good way to put it.
		And the discovery of eye movement seems to be that we can utilize that mechanism that occurs during dream sleep when people are awake.
		We can tap into that and use it.
		And you'll see when you do eye movement therapy with somebody how rapidly they move through things.
		It's not a quick fix.
		If you want to help someone with a particular psychological problem, you generally have to go through steps A, B, C, and D, let's say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any way to quantify the difference?
		I mean, do I go from a, I don't know, 100 megahertz old clunky computer to a, you know, a Pentium 4?
		How much difference in activity is there?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		I don't know the actual gradient of increase in processing.
		I don't have that information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but significant.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Significant.
		Things just move much quicker.
		When we first started doing EMDR with our combat veterans, we could literally sometimes in 10 to 15 minutes go through that ABCD that we were unable to do in months and years of therapy with the same problem.
		People just move through it more quickly, which then provides clinical evidence that our brains are indeed processing at a much higher level.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is really fascinating stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We just don't understand enough about our brains yet, do we?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		No.
		Well, yeah.
		One of my favorite sayings is a Thomas Edison, which is we don't know a millionth of 1% about anything.
		And I think we're just in this area with NDE and ADC research and some of this information, you know, has relevance to questions humankind has had all along.
		You know, I think we're really just now just getting started, really taking a look at what's going on, what's going on in the brain, what's going on, you know, with different systems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are a lot of doctors now beginning to leave the physiological explanation and beginning to join you in believing, either quietly or publicly, that something really is going on beyond the physical?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		You know, I offer a challenge to all skeptics, scientists and non-scientists alike.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good one, too.
		Doctor, you've got to hold on.
		You've got to hold.
		We'll continue after the bottom of the hour here.
		We're facing the clock, which will not wait from the high desert.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell.
		Call like Bell in the Kingdom of Night from West of the Rockies at 1-800-6188255.
		East of the Rockies 1-800-8255033.
		First time callers may recharge at 17757271222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 17757271295.
		To recharge on the toll-free international line, call your ATT operator and have them vial 808930903.
		This is coast to coast AM with Arkbell from the Kingdom of God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There, Dr. Alan Monkin is my guest.
unidentified		We're talking about communications across the veil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not just across the street and city of the world, but across the veil that separates life and death.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I recall a 60-minute story about a woman who had an aneurysm in her brain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure you recall this.
unidentified		And they killed her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They iced down her body until all vital signs stopped.
		And for 40 or 45 minutes, they operated on this woman, went in, clipped out the aneurysm because she had no blood pressure, because she had no beating heart, sewed her up, warmed her up, returned her to life.
		She had a near-death experience.
		And I recall they interviewed some.
		And of course, everybody, you know, it was a 60-minute, but maybe she didn't have an NDE.
		I just really can't remember.
		But they interviewed a doctor about the whole affair.
		And the guy from 60 Minutes at the end of the piece was like shaking his head.
		He was going, where was she for that 40 minutes?
		And then they interviewed some doctor.
		And the doctor said something like, well, you know, here's what happened.
		The brain is dying from the outside in.
		And as that process occurs, dopamine is released so that the person's having a pleasant experience.
		And what they're seeing is indeed a center light, the center of the brain, as their brain shrinks toward complete death.
		That's what doctors like to say.
		And you suggest, doctor, that they ought to come have this experience before they say too much, huh?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Whether it's an NDE or ADC or induced ADC, there's something, like I said, that's very convincing about it.
		And whether you begin as a skeptic or a believer, it's very, very convincing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And let's try again.
		How specifically do you induce an ADC?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		As I was saying before, first of all, I changed the way I did eye movement.
		So I'm not talking about standard EMDR, the way it's taught.
		I changed it considerably.
		And essentially what I did is I began eye movement by going after what I called the core affective issues, the core emotion.
		In other words, when someone presents with a grief issue, they usually present a number of feelings, anger, guilt, anger for how the death occurred or guilt, maybe I could have done something or I wasn't there when he or she died.
		But at the very core of all loss is deep, deep sadness.
		And people often use their anger and guilt sort of as a defense so they don't have to experience their deep sadness.
		Well, what I started doing, and I call it core-focused EMDR, is I began EMDR sessions by going right after the core, right after the core sadness.
		And when I did that and was able to successfully process that core sadness, essentially we were done and the more protective feelings of anger and guilt vanished without even being directly addressed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I'm actually still not understanding the medical thing that you're doing.
		Are you putting a person in a certain state?
		Are you creating this state?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		What?
		Okay.
		Well, I'm simply having them access their core feelings of sadness, and when they access it or are in touch with those feelings, I have them move their eyes in a particular rhythmic fashion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		So they're sitting there, they're thinking about the loved one or their friend that they lost, and they're feeling their sadness very deeply.
		At that time, I'm giving them eye movement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Set and setting.
		Like with the old drug thing, set and setting.
		In other words, you're putting the person in that particular setting of remembering this sadness and addressing this sadness, and then you're starting their eye movement.
		And you're actually instructing them, this is eyes open, awake stuff.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		They're wide awake.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		We're using that part of the brain, I believe, that operates when we're dreaming, but we're using it while they're wide awake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're instructing them how.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying, I want you to start looking left and right rapidly?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are different ways of doing it.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		I have them either follow my hand or something I move in front of their face, and so their eyes are shifting rhythmically while they're re-experiencing their sadness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is then almost like a hypnotic.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Well, EMDR is different from hypnosis, I believe.
		As a matter of fact, I think it's the opposite.
		And I've had a couple people disagree with me on this, but I think most people who are familiar with both EMDR and hypnosis think of them as different.
		If you think of what's going on in your head, your consciousness is like a projector in a screen where it's always like the film's always running.
		You always got something going on in your head.
		What hypnosis does is it slows down the projector and you can even stop it on an individual frame.
		And that's why people use hypnosis to recover memories.
		Of course, the problem with that is you can also create false memories by putting things on that film that don't belong there when you're in that highly suggestible state.
		EMDR, on the other hand, actually, by virtue of the fact that it increases brain processing, it actually gets a stuck projector rolling again.
		The reason I say that is guys who have traumatic memories, they're stuck in a moment in time when this awful event Occurred.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, how would you characterize medically the state that you're inducing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if not hypnosis, then.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would just say it's increased information processing in the brain.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		We're speeding things up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got it.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		And there are even neuroimaging studies, some preliminary studies in the field that indicate that actually different parts of the brain light up pre- and post-EMDR.
		The part of the brain that lights up prior to EMDR, when the person accesses the memory, it's the older, deeper structures where the fight-or-flight response is.
		It's kind of a here-and-now, knee-jerk kind of response.
		After EMDR, when a person accesses the memory, the higher parts of the brain light up where it becomes more of an abstract kind of memory.
		It takes the reliving component out of it.
		EMDR does not erase a traumatic memory from one's mind, but it takes the reliving component out of it.
		I've had guys say after EMDR, he says, you know, this is strange, but, you know, it feels like it's 30 years ago now.
		It doesn't feel like it happened yesterday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're getting this in an extremely high percentage of patients tried.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Now, there's one more step to this whole induced ADC thing.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Once I started doing this core-focused EMDR, I found out that about 15% of my patients were reporting these ADC experiences.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, so you stumbled into these?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		I completely stumbled into it.
		And when my first patient had one of these experiences, I thought he had just hallucinated.
		I didn't even know what an ADC was.
		I wasn't taught that in graduate school, and I don't think anybody still is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		So when that started happening about 15% of the time, these guys left the office, these patients, feeling way better than the guys who even fully processed their memory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go back to patient zero for you.
		What happened?
		I mean, what happened?
		Tell me about it.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Okay, it's a wonderful story, and it's the subject of it's, I will discuss it in my book.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Hopefully, I'll have a book deal soon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, he came in complaining of what?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		There's a story here.
		Do you want to hear the whole thing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
unidentified		Okay.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		This vet, we'll call him Sam.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		When Sam was in Vietnam, he got really close to an little orphaned Vietnamese girl, about 10 years old.
		All right?
		And they developed a very close relationship, kind of like a father-daughter kind of relationship.
		And this little girl, we'll call her Lee.
		She reminded him of his sisters growing up.
		And he got very close and very fond of her and so on.
		Well, he decided at some point, even wrote home to his wife and parents, and he said he wanted to adopt Lee and bring her back home.
		Well, he wasn't aware of the fact that the U.S. government was very likely not going to allow that, but he had made plans.
		Well, one day orders came down that all the local orphaned Vietnamese kids had to be shipped off to a distant village where there was a Catholic orphanage.
		So one day Sam and some of the other soldiers were loading about, it was about 12 little kids up on a flatbed truck to be taken away.
		And Sam was all broken up.
		He realized he might not see Lee again and so on and so forth.
		And it was right around that time shots rang out and a sniper was shooting at him.
		And so bullets were zipping over everyone's head.
		So the soldiers pulled the kids off the flatbed and onto the ground to a point of relative safety.
		And as soon as the shooting started, as quickly as it started, it stopped.
		Somebody got the sniper or the sniper ran off, I forget, but they started loading the kids back onto the truck, and they were getting the kids up, and Sam noticed he didn't see Lee anywhere.
		And Sam walked around to the back of the truck and saw Lee laying face down with a spot of blood on her back.
		And when he rolled her over, he saw that a single bullet had gone through her back and blew the front part of her torso completely open, and she was dead.
		And that was really the cause of Sam's psychological undoing at that point.
		And he became very angry.
		Pretty much lived the rest of his time in Vietnam in a full rage to protect himself from that deep loss.
		And when he came home, he pretty much isolated in his basement and even avoided his own daughter, who reminded him of Lee.
		But anyway, he came in and he presented this in a group situation, and we went to sit down to do eye movement.
		And I went right after his sadness.
		And another thing I do differently from standard EMDRs, I always have my patients close their eyes after I give them a set of this eye movement.
unidentified		Yes.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		But anyway, we were working on his sadness, and he at one point closed his eyes, and all of a sudden his big smile came over his face.
		And he's sitting there with his eyes closed with this big smile across his face.
		And I thought that was kind of unusual.
		I had never seen that before when you're working on something, a loss this awful.
		But anyway, he opened his eyes.
		He said, I saw Lee.
		I talked to her.
		I said, what?
		And he said, yeah, she appeared to me as a 30-year-old woman, fully grown.
		She was beautiful.
		She was in a long white gown.
		She was surrounded by white light.
		And he said, she kind of just floated up to me and thanked me for taking care of her back then.
		And Sam mentally, Not out loud, I didn't hear this, but mentally said to Lee, You know, I miss you so much, I love you.
		And she said, I love you too, Sam.
		And then Lee, in this experience, Lee reached out and gave him a hug.
		And when Sam had opened his eyes and was telling me this story, he was saying, I could actually feel her arms around me.
		Well, Sam was absolutely convinced that he had spoken or communicated with Lee's spirit.
		And he was absolutely full of joy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First thing that I guess hit me, if I can just interrupt, is if his brain was concocting something to protect itself, to heal itself, then you would have expected that his brain would have manifested a Lee as he remembered her, not as she might have been at 30 years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's number one.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yes.
		It certainly was different from, very, very different from any memory he had of Lee.
		So we weren't pulling a memory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		We were pulling something that he experienced as a here and now kind of an experience.
		Gotcha.
		And I thought he hallucinated.
		I thought he just had what some people call a grief hallucination, where your brain just does that for you under conditions of extreme pain.
unidentified		Did you tell him that?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I probably tried to act professional, and I didn't tell him anything at that point because I wasn't sure what happened.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		And I don't like to tell patients things that I'm just taking wild shots at.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		But privately, I thought he had hallucinated.
		And so I thought the results wouldn't last.
		Well, you know, I saw this guy a week later and then a month later and then I talked to him a couple years later.
		And whereas before he couldn't even talk about Lee and the death of her, it was so painful.
		He loved talking about her.
		He was happy when you brought the subject of Lee up.
		And if he hallucinated, I figured his happiness wouldn't last.
		But it did.
		As a matter of fact, that was about eight years ago.
		And I haven't talked to him in the last year or two.
		But as of a five-year follow-up, he was still feeling really good about the whole thing.
		And automatically, his situation at home dramatically improved, where he was relating to his daughter the first time and so on.
		Because his daughter then no longer triggered painful memories.
		What's so therapeutic about the induced ADC is that positive experience tends to take the place of the negative experience.
		And sometimes after an ADC, a person will say, you know, I can't even bring up that awful image of when I turned Lee over and that picture in my head when I saw her dead.
		He said, you know, before it used to come to me every night, and now it's like I have a hard time even bringing up that negative image.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It must change everything.
		I mean, if you honestly believe you just had an experience meeting with, interacting with a person who is dead, it would change your view not just about the incident, I would think, but about every aspect of life.
		To understand that this life is not over when it's over, that there really is more is so profound.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		That is a good point.
		What I have found kind of goes against that a little bit.
		And let me tell you, I say quite often that beliefs really have nothing to do with this because it doesn't matter if you believe it's going to work for you or not.
		But before I do the procedure, as a matter of fact, skeptics are even a little easier to induce.
		It doesn't matter what you believe.
		And it also doesn't matter what you believe afterwards because 94% in my first study believed that they actually communicated with the deceased.
		But even the 6% that didn't still experienced a full resolution of grief.
		So it was the experience itself that was healing, not a subsequent change in beliefs.
		Now the other thing is, the third argument why beliefs I think play a minor role in all of this is I would have thought if you had an ADC with one deceased person, that would help you with other losses in your life.
		Because then you now believe that there's a better place and so on and so forth.
		And now, you know, the death of, say you worked on the death of your friend, and now you shouldn't be sad about the death of your mother.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One would think.
		But that doesn't hold.
		Why?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		You know, I don't know.
		Other than to say that beliefs play just such a small role in this, it doesn't matter what you believe.
		It's the experience itself that's healing.
		So what we do then, of course, once a person has an after-death communication, they frequently want to do more.
		And so then we work on the death of grandmother or the death of mother or whoever else you want to work on.
		But for some reason, we have to do each one of those separately.
		Because I think at the basis of this deep sadness is a sense of disconnection.
		It's a basic sense of this person is no longer here.
		This person is no longer with me.
		That's at the core of the deep sadness, which I go after.
		The ADC experiences provide a sense of reconnection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But why isn't the ADC experience?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		And it fixes that particular disconnection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got it.
		But why isn't that ADC experience broader in scope?
		I mean, it's so profound.
		You're talking, you have just talked to, interacted with a person who is dead.
		That would have implications far beyond the single or should have beyond the single experience.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		You know, it does in some ways.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		It does in terms of people becoming convinced that there is such a thing as an afterlife, and They may fear their own death less.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would think.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		But, and it does have that kind of carryover.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		I'm just saying it doesn't help them with a different loss.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The whole thing so far is absolutely remarkable.
		All right.
		Dr. Alan Bodkin is my guest.
		We're talking about A D C's communications with those who've passed on.
		Really incredible stuff.
		From the high desert in the middle of the night, as always, this is Coast to Coast A.M. I'm Mark Bell.
		Stay right where you are.
unidentified		Miss part of the show?
		Listen online with Streamlink.
		Log on to coasttocoastam.com.
		At the end, I'm smiling, walking miles to drink your water.
		You know I love you.
		I love you.
		I love you.
		Want to take a ride?
		Call Art Bell from Each of the bunkies at 1-800-618-8255.
		Each of the bunkies at 1-800-8255-033.
		First time numbers may reach Art at Area Code 775-727-1222.
		Or call the Wildcard line at 775-727-1295.
		To talk with ART on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No need to fear the ride.
		It's one we're all going to take.
		My guest is Dr. Alan Botkin.
		He is taking patients, many, many, many, through ADC's communications with the dead.
		More in a moment.
unidentified		More in a moment.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Botkin, for your own edification, have you ever attempted to acquire what would pass as proof that these communications are going on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any sort of piece of contemporary information or anything that would set you on the trail of knowing this for sure?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think I have anything like that.
		I think something like some kind of proof is possible.
		Let me tell you a few things about that.
		First of all, after having done a couple thousand of these, there are many times that a person receives information that the patient didn't know.
		And each time we were able to verify that, we found out that information was indeed true.
		Now, but those are just kind of anecdotal kinds of stories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, perhaps so, but that's what I meant.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Whether we could set up some kind of an experiment to verify it is another whole story.
		Frequently in an induced after-death communication, sometimes people show up and my patient will say, well, why was he there?
		He's alive.
		And I haven't seen him in five years, but he's alive.
		And each time we were able to check and verify that, we found out that indeed that person had died.
		Now, probably the closest thing that comes to any kind of proof is something we did.
		And we sort of stumbled onto this, too.
		But this is kind of an interesting story.
		I trained many doctoral-level interns in psychology.
		And I taught them how to do this procedure.
		And they got just as good at it as I was.
		I don't have any special powers.
		I think the powers and the technique.
		But I had an intern once who had seen me induce ADCs before and was very good at inducing ADCs himself.
		Well, one day I was going to induce a patient, and he came in and sat and observed the session again because he didn't have anything else to do.
		He asked if he could watch another one, you know, and I and the patient both said yes.
		Sure.
		Well, he came in and sat down, and while I was working with the patient, for some reason, this intern closed his eyes and started giving himself eye movement.
		Well, something very, very unusual happened, which was my intern essentially eavesdropped in on my patient's ADC.
		They had the exact same experience at the exact same time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy mackerel.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Now, if these are brain-induced hallucinations, it's more difficult to believe that these two people randomly had the same hallucination at the same time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll say.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		If you get two people looking at the same thing, then it offers a strong argument that there's some objective reality going on.
		Indeed.
		And we did this seven or eight times, and we kind of cleaned it up in terms of how we did this so we wouldn't misinterpret it.
		And my intern would then, and I did this with a couple different people, the observer would move his or her eyes while we did this, but before the patient said anything about his experience, and I say his because I worked in a VA.
		The intern would write down everything he or she experienced and then hand me that piece of paper, and then the patient would say what his experience was, and it was essentially the same thing that I was just doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The same thing.
		Aye, aye, aye.
		Well, how does it feel to have apparently discovered the key to communication on the other side?
		I mean, what does that feel like?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		You know, I'm not the first.
		And really, Raymond Moody was the first to do that with the psychomantium approach.
		Yes, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see the same conduit to the same.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think the difference between the psychomantium approach and the EMDR approach is my approach is just a little quicker and a little more efficient.
		My success rate is a little higher.
		When I first started doing this, like I said, out of my first 83 patients, I was getting a reliability at about a 98%.
		Nearly everybody was having this kind of result.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Speaking of patients, I have one of your patients on the line.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wonderful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Young fellow named Jimmy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jimmy.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are or were a patient of Dr. Botkins?
		Yes.
		How long ago, Jimmy?
unidentified		A year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A year ago.
		Jimmy, what happened to you?
		And why did you go to Dr. Botkin and what happened?
unidentified		Well, I was part of a PTSD program.
unidentified		And he was running the ITP, that's intensive trauma programming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Vietnam?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay, Mili.
		And I was having the nightmares every night.
		You wake up in a cold sweat, and you know, you're a vet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And it's like every bit of the pain and the remembrance is so fresh it could have just happened.
		It actually makes me angry when it happens.
		Anyway.
unidentified		You could always reach out and touch it.
unidentified		It's just that clear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you went to Dr. Botkin, and obviously something happened you didn't expect.
unidentified		Yes, it did.
		The incident that happened when I was in Vietnam in Milai, I was standing on a berm and there were some choppers flew in.
		Now, outside the berm and outside our wire and claymores was a place called Booby Trap City.
		We knew booby traps was everywhere, just everywhere.
		And evidently there were some wrong coordinates given to these Marines.
		They got helicoptered in.
		Four of them jumped out of the helicopter and hit mine.
		Okay, I stood there.
		I was waving.
		Everybody was waving to them.
		Don't jump, don't jump, don't jump, but there's something that we could do.
		That lives in my mind every night.
		Every night I could see it.
		I could see the explosion.
		You could see the body parts fly everywhere.
		Okay, and Dr. Bakken gave me eye movement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I actually, and it was painful at first, I went all the way back.
		I mean, you could still smell the same scents that were there.
		It was so real.
		And I actually talked to the four Marines that were there because I was feeling guilty because I couldn't do anything.
		I was just standing there and I couldn't do a thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you remember, Jimmy, from the time the Rapid Eye movement began until you began to experience something that was detached from this reality?
		How quick was it?
		Was it a fast thing?
unidentified		Fast, yes, it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was fast.
unidentified		Very fast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you were there?
unidentified		I was there.
unidentified		In a matter of minutes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then how did these Marines manifest themselves to you?
		I mean, were they just standing there?
		Were they in what kind of setting?
unidentified		What?
		It was back to the same place where it happened.
		I move it took me back to the place that it happened.
		I was right there.
		And the Marines told me that there was nothing that I could do.
		Stop feeling sorry because there was nothing that I could have done.
		It was an error.
		Someone gave the wrong coordination.
		And when the moment that they said that, relief came on me.
		And I have been able to deal with this a lot better than I had before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever wondered, Jimmy, or even cared whether this was something inside your own brain or whether it's as real as you and I talking on the phone and the radio right now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does it matter?
unidentified		Yes, it does matter.
		I needed to know, and I didn't want this to be something that was false or fake or something that I created in my own mind.
		I knew, and if you did it yourself, you would know and you would understand.
		I knew that it took me back there.
		Everything was so real, so real, that it's hard to believe.
		It really is hard to believe that just sitting down and getting the eye movement, that it could actually take you back to the time that you were there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is incredible.
unidentified		It's incredible.
		And not only that, the second incident that has to do with this one is I often wonder why there were so many booby traps there.
		Why our units didn't sweep that area to locate these booby traps.
		I never could understand that.
		But Dr. Bachen took me back because I wasn't satisfied.
		He Took me back again, not the same day, but next time I had the treatment, the eye movement.
		And I actually went back and saw the entrance to an underground tunnel.
		And that's why it was booby trapped so heavy, which no one ever knew.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And yet you did know, your unit knew that those mines were there because you were trying to wave them off.
		So you knew something.
		I mean, you knew they were out there to some degree, right?
unidentified		Right.
		Never knew why.
		Never knew that there was an entrance to a tunnel.
		And that's how VC were in the area so often and so quick and were gone here in a moment and then gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Since the treatment, Jimmy, how's it been?
unidentified		The nightmares aren't as bad.
		You know, they're there, but for that one incident, it is much better.
		I am able to deal with that.
		The guilt is not as strong as it was for that incident.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's remarkable.
unidentified		Yes, it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jimmy, thank you.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
unidentified		Bye-bye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there you are, and you were right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said that it relates to the specific incident or person, but not beyond that, which is it doesn't generalize to other incidents.
unidentified		Right.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Because it's like if a person has one ADC, to frame it in those terms, and a loss creates that profound sense of disconnection, when you have an induced after-death communication and reconnect, that resolves that sadness or that loss and all the attendant guilt and anger and so on.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		But that reconnection does not generalize to other disconnections through a belief system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, let me try one on you.
		If this is a real phenomenon, then surely, Doctor, at times the person having the ADC was perhaps somehow horribly in the wrong, or the person that died really blames their death on the person having the ADC.
		I guess what I'm asking is, do ADCs ever turn out to be negative affairs?
		It always seems like it's healing, but how many people are there?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		That's a great question, and I welcome the opportunity to answer that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fire away.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Out of the few thousand ADCs that I and my colleagues have done, they have all been positive.
		Now, that even includes people who have ADC'd horribly abusive fathers.
		And one would think that by having the patient access the memory of the deceased father and so on and so forth, and if a person was imagining this, they would see in their ADC this horribly abusive father.
		But these horribly abusive fathers always come across as sincerely apologetic, sincerely willing to take all responsibility for what they did.
		They seem to be very, they're experienced as very, very different.
		And I think I know why.
		When a person has a near-death experience, or a death experience rather, one of the components is the life review.
		And people who have had a life review as a part of their near-death experience come back as completely changed people.
		Because what happens is you not only experience all the feelings that you had in life from moment to moment, you also experience the feelings you caused in others.
		So you can imagine an abusive person or a person who was by all standards a bad guy in life having a life review and seeing the pain and the agony that you've caused in other people.
		That life review is really a life-changing experience.
		It's a real eye-opener.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have interviewed many.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, indeed.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		And so it's interesting to note that when you induce an after-death communication, the deceased are always experienced as if they have been through a life review.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe this has something to do with, I mean, we could look at the biblical end of it, for example, and assume that even the very worst criminals who seek Jesus before the very end and the switch is thrown or the whatever actually do get it, that there is that forgiveness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then we're dealing with a different sort over on the other side.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Whether they get that forgiveness at the moment they convert or they're starting perhaps in the right direction.
		But when they have the life review, then I think they totally convert.
		Can I just add one more point just for completeness?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You certainly may.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		You asked me about how do I do this induction, and I left out the very last part of it, which is crucial.
		As I was saying, when I was first doing this core-focused eye movement, which is a different form of eye movement, about 15% of my guys were having this experience.
		And I thought, wouldn't it be nice if I could raise that beyond 15% so more people could have this good feeling?
		And I went back and looked in my notes in cases where people had the experience and cases where people didn't have the experience.
		And I noticed in the cases where people did have the experience, I did do one other thing differently, which was I induced accidentally at the time, a state of receptivity or what I call a receptive mode.
		In other words, I gave them eye movement when I got their sadness down, and I instructed them, just go with whatever happens.
		And essentially, at the time, I was giving them that last set of eye movement just to help them relax further.
		And it was at that point people started having these after-death communications.
		So then I thought, well, I wonder if I added this receptive mode thing at the end with an additional set of eye movement that I could improve on it.
		And that's when the 15% jumped all the way up to 98%, then virtually everybody was having it.
		So I had to induce this state of receptivity.
		so it's a second set of instructions given at the right moment to begin the rapid eye movement this is after you've been through the the most the sadness and And I take a lot of time, a lot of care with patients I work with to tell them, to warn them of that ahead of time.
		Your sadness is going to go up, but if it does, you stay with me.
		Just stay with me.
		But once the sadness goes up, I eye move them, the sadness starts to come down.
		At that point, I give them another set of eye movement with the idea of inducing this state of receptivity.
		And that's when the ADCs occur.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you've developed this procedure now to the point where you can take in the high 90 percentile?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		This is the perfect time for that question, too.
		I was doing virtually everybody, 98 percent.
		And the 2 percent that they weren't having ADCs, it was really clearly obvious why they just didn't want to follow through on the procedure or something else came up they didn't want to work on or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, hold your response.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're at the bottom of the hour and we'll be right back and we'll deal with that 2% and find out what the current percentage is from the high desert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		I'm Mark Bell.
		Miss part of the show?
		Listen online with Streamlink.
		Log on to coasttocoastam.com.
		Watching the clouds till you return.
		I'm back for it and watching you burn.
		Now it begins, the day of the day.
		When you need a smile to help the shadow, there's no way to come to me.
		Baby, you'll see.
		I'm too pretty, baby.
		I'm gonna help you through the night.
		I'm too pretty, my wife.
		You're always good to me.
		I'm too.
		Who's gonna love you, love you?
		Who's gonna love?
		I'm too.
		Who's gonna love you, love you?
		Who's gonna love you?
		Who's gonna love you?
		Recharge bells in the Kingdom of 5 from west of the Rockies dial 1-8006188255.
		East of the Rockies 1-800-8255033.
		First time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222 or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To recharge on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with our bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed it is.
		Dr. Alan Botkin is my guest.
		We're talking about communication with the other side through a procedure he's discovered.
		Stay right there because there is more.
unidentified		Stay right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, Dr. Alan Botkin.
		Doctor, welcome back.
		Thank you.
		all right uh...
		you were about to talk to us about Yeah.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		When that was happening, I actually considered the idea of offering this to people and actually guaranteeing the results.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		If you don't have an ADC, you don't owe me anything, which of course would be unheard of in the field of psychology or even medicine for that matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Certainly would.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		But I did run into a little bit of a snag, which was once I announced my services, and people can get that on inducedadc.com.
		But once I announced my services, people then started coming to me to have an ADC experience.
		The 98% were people who came to me for trauma work or grief work.
		They weren't coming with the expectation of having an ADC.
		Those people were just simply easier to induce.
		When people were coming to me to have the experience, their sense of expectation, their anticipation, I tended to attract people that already had beliefs that something like this was real and so on and so forth.
		So they were loaded with beliefs.
		Those people, I found out, were a little bit more difficult to induce.
		And the reason is that those beliefs and expectations and so on interfere with the establishment of that receptive mode I was talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It seems so counterintuitive because...
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		And I've learned a lot of things that surprised me along the way.
		And again, I go back to beliefs really don't matter.
		As a matter of fact, skeptics are easier to induce because when you put them in that receptive mode, they're not really trying to do anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, what about...
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		The 98% dropped to about 70%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		70% with those who were seeking it.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		So people who seek it, the chances are about 70% as best I can figure, but that's considerably lower than the 98%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
		These are surprises.
		What about people with significant religious disposition, very strong fundamentalist type believers?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Well, whether my experience is whether they're strong fundamentalists or the new, perhaps more enlightened new age type person, it's the same thing.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		if they come with certain expectations and belief percentage of sometimes it's hard to get that stuff to quiet down um...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe in ghosts?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		You know, I believe in something that I've experienced myself directly, or when I talk to, you know, hundreds of people who tell me that they saw the same thing, then I tend to believe there's something to it.
		If I never see it or I don't talk to anybody who ever saw it, you know, then I remain a skeptic.
		Now, ghosts are scary.
		You know, Halloween's coming up and so on.
		And all the induced ADCs I've done, there's nothing scary about it.
		Now, beforehand, people might say, you know, Doc, this sounds spooky or scary.
		I don't know if I want to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it does.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		It does.
		But once you get in the experience, there's absolutely nothing scary or frightening about it.
		Now, you know, I think people maybe believe in ghosts, just like why people like to ride on roller coasters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But why not?
		Why is the concept of a ghost any more out on the limb than Dr. Botkin is with what he's discovered?
		I mean, in a way, they complement each other.
		The possibility of ghosts is certainly complemented by the fact that you can take people back and have conversations, apparently contemporary ones, with dead people.
		Right.
		So it's not such a leap.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		It's just that I haven't had any kind of direct personal or clinical experience with that conversation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		And maybe other people have and know something about it.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		I just have to say, you know, I don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's try this out.
		Other than those colleagues of yours that you have worked with, you know, in this procedure, teaching this procedure to or explaining it to them.
		But in the larger medical community, doctor, how are you being received?
		Or have you published?
		I mean, where are you with this?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Well, my original study, which describes the technique and has a few cases in it and so on, appeared in the spring 2000 edition of the Journal of Near-Death Studies.
		And I put it in that journal because of the similarity I believed at the time between after-death communications and NDEs or near-death experience.
		I soon came to believe that they're really essentially the same phenomenon experience from somewhat different perspectives, of course.
		But anyway, that was my first and only published work so far.
		Right now, we have a book proposal out there, and we're trying to get a publishing deal.
		If any publishers are out there, please give me a call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that would have been a friendly publication.
		I was kind of looking for the mainstream psychiatric community.
		Are they aware of your work?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, people in mainstream psychology, those aren't the people I've gone after right away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can imagine.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		And perhaps it's because I expect to not be well received at the beginning.
		But anyways, I hope to do more research.
		I was fortunate enough to have breakfast with Dr. Gary Schwartz the other day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		And you're familiar with him.
		He's been on your show a few times, I think.
		And, you know, with his lab he has in Arizona, I would love to do hard research on this and use EEG equipment and MRIs to see exactly what's going on in the brain and maybe do some of these shared ADCs I mentioned where two people have the same experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That certainly was going to be one of my questions.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, I would love for someone else to pick this up and do it because if I do research on my own hypothesis, then it's going to be a little bit more questionable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, speculate for me a little bit.
		If you could get a good picture of what was going on in the brain during one of these experiences, Doctor, what do you imagine you would note?
		you know i don't know do you think that uh...
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		frontal lobe activity would suddenly go berserk the probably not Probably not frontal lobe.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		That's more higher executive functioning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it is, I know.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		I would say that we'd probably have to quiet down.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		The frontal lobes would probably become quieted in the procedure, and maybe more deep brain structures would become activated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you need this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You need this research as an accept, don't you?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		You know, my findings are very preliminary.
		This is not yet accepted by mainstream.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can imagine.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		But the findings that I and my colleagues are getting are so robust, so consistent that I think eventually it's going to find its way into mainstream.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any conversations with Dr. Moody?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Raymond Moody is my hero, my hero in my adult life, and I was honored when he invited me a few years ago to go speak at the University of Nevada at Las Vegas.
		And I went and did a presentation there and Had a chance to spend a couple days with Raymond and kind of follow him around and talk.
		And I just think he's a wonderful person.
		And he, you know, I'm just really, he was the first to do this.
		And I just sort of came along with something, you know, maybe just a little quicker and a little more reliable.
		But, you know, he's, you know, he started this all.
		And I remember when his book came out, I remember Life After Life came out somewhere in the 70s.
		You know, I thought, boy, that sounds like a bunch of blue-raha and so on.
		But he made the point in his book that people aren't going to tell you about their NDEs unless you ask them in a sincere kind of way because people don't go around telling everybody because they know that other people are going to think they're crazy.
		So anyway, working in a hospital with many people who are very sick and so on or had situations on the battlefield, I began to ask and I found out that indeed NDEs were very common.
		And I've talked to many hundreds of people who have had near-death experiences.
		But then Raymond Moody came out with his book, Reunions, where he presented the psychomantium approach where he was actually inducing these after-death communications.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		And I thought, well, you know, I thought Raymond Moody did such great work with NDEs.
		You know, it sounds to me like he's going off on the deep end now, you know.
		And I thought, you know, this sounds goofy.
		I didn't buy it right away.
		But anyway, once I stumbled into ADCs many years later, like I said, the first thing I related it to were near-death experiences, my patients' experiences.
		But Raymond was always so many steps ahead of the rest of us.
		It took me a lot of time to catch up.
		And who knows what he's up to now, but I bet you it's good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In all of this, Doctor, is there any work you've done that would indicate the reality of a concept like soul, spirit, the soul?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that there's any reality to that, that that is in fact what you're communicating with, the soul?
unidentified		Well, it starts.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Any theory on that starts with, I believe, people who have had the experience.
		And like I say, the technique works even better with skeptics.
		And when you can change a skeptic's mind completely in a half-hour session, something powerful is going on that certainly deserves attention.
		And like I said, when people have the same ADC experience at the same time, that tends to prove there's some kind of objective reality to the experience.
		But beyond that, I think there's some recent findings in the field of biophysics that I think are absolutely astounding and may eventually explain a lot of this stuff.
		Back in the, I believe it was the 50s, the Kerlians developed a special photography procedure where they saw this aura around living things by their special development of their pictures.
		And that never really caught on.
		It was difficult to replicate.
		And scientists at the time didn't really have any models that would help them understand what this could possibly be.
		Of course, people at the time thought, well, maybe this aura, this energy that we're seeing in these pictures, maybe has something to do with soul or spirit.
		A few of the hippies picked up on it back then, but then it kind of died.
		Recent biophysicists across the planet, and it's primarily in Europe and Asia, and there's not too much going on in the United States, but they have been finding that all living systems do indeed emit light and emit information.
		Light or photons carry information in a very efficient manner.
		And it's certainly possible that this may eventually explain the concept of solar spirit.
		And that's another kind of thing I'd like to work on in Dr. Schwartz's energy lab is sort of measuring some of these biofields, these energy fields, to see if we're getting changes in those during an ADC.
		But once light is emitted, which carries this information, once we die, all the information that we emitted for a lifetime is still there.
		Once emitted, it doesn't depend on its source anymore.
		It's the same thing when you turn on a flashlight.
		Once the flashlight doesn't work and you throw it away, well, all the light that that flashlight emitted for its lifetime continues on and is no longer dependent on the source.
		It's the same things when we look at stars at night.
unidentified		You know, we think we, quote, see stars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the big question is, is it a sentient continuance?
		In other words, yes, the light continues, the information continues, nothing dies in that sense.
		but does it continue to be sentient?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Well, people...
		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		The only, you know, people are beginning to do, you know, medical diagnoses by detecting changes in the field.
		All the information, apparently, that's in the physical body is also in a redundant fashion in the field.
		My only speculation is why wouldn't consciousness also be redundant in the field?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, doctor, this is how healers claim to be able to do what they do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They literally read an aura and they can suggest, uh-huh, liver trouble or whatever.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		And I have talked and met with some people who are into that kind of research.
		And it's very interesting.
		It's very different from what I'm doing, but may ultimately be going in the same direction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you feel as though you're getting pretty far out on a limb professionally with all of this?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Some people have admired my courage.
		Sometimes I have a hard time deciding if I'm a genius or a fool.
		But when I sat there working with these patients and we did a few thousand ADCs, I became convinced that it was my duty to bring this to the rest of the people on the planet.
		It's something that's good, it's very healing, and it may lead to some ultimate answers about the whole life and death issue.
		And I really feel it's my moral duty to get this out.
		That's why I'm on your show tonight.
		I want people to know about this.
		I want other scientists and researchers to pick up on it.
		And I'd really like to get this ball rolling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think the ultimate effects of literally opening the door between life and death, Doctor, would be?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you could get this out and it became commonplace and that door swung wide open, is that ultimately for society a good thing?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
		I think some people ask the question, well, gee, if it's so nice over there and if this is true that there is indeed an afterlife, aren't a bunch of people going to go out and commit suicide?
		And the answer to that is no.
		And to any of those who might consider suicide, I would want you to think of this, which suicide is ultimately a very selfish act.
		Because generally, whether you've got a million friends or one friend in life or one person that cares about you, when you kill yourself, you're going to hurt those other people.
		And in your life reviewed, in your near-death experience, you're going to experience the hurt you caused in other people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that will not be one of the better moments.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		No, that will not be one of the better moments in the life review.
		So anyone who would consider that, you know, consider suicide, you need to think about that.
		The lessons of NDEs and ADCs as well is that life is important, love is important, our connections with others are what it's all about.
		And suicide is not the way I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It neglects all that.
		But again, swinging that door wide open worldwide would have a profound impact on all societies.
		I mean, it seems to me it would, anyway, to suddenly have the understanding that they are all there.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're all still there.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		You know, if this is true, you can't kill someone and they go away forever.
		You're going to eventually have to face them again.
		And indeed, the combat vets I've worked with and the people they've killed, at the time they might have killed somebody feeling a lot of anger and rage and exhilaration.
		But, you know, later in life, when that anger starts to drop off, or, you know, it can be much later in life, people start to feel guilty.
		You know, I remember the look, you know, of fear in the eyes of the enemy before I shot him and so on.
		And, you know, that face-to-face kind of killing is always very difficult.
		And many of my vets have ADC'd enemy soldiers they killed.
		And they always worked it out.
		It always ended up a positive result.
		As a matter of fact, it's interesting.
		Some of my vets have come away.
		Many of them have said, you know, they say, you know, Doc, it's really strange.
		I just not only feel like he and I are okay with each other, I feel like we now have a special bond, like we're friends.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, hold on.
		We're at the top of the air.
		When we come back, yes, we'll open up the telephone lines, and you can ask Dr. Alan Botkin what you will about ADCs from the high deserts.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		The official website of Coast to Coast AM is www.coastacoastam.com.
		Log on now.
		Log on now.
		Log on now.
		Log on now.
		Wanna take a ride?
		Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		And to rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the by, everybody, I'd like to remind you that if you don't get Saturday and Sunday, I'm here both Saturday and Sunday night.
		And if your radio station is not carrying both of these nights, then you're missing out.
		And what you need to do Monday is pick up the telephone, call your radio station, say, what's up?
		Coast is on Saturdays and Sundays.
		We want it all.
		And don't forget, Ghost to Ghost.
		Coming up this next Friday night, I'll be here for that event.
		And toward that end, I would like those of you who are willing and who have really good ghost stories, very best, the cream odi crop.
		You know, the scary ones.
		Give me a little synopsis, just a paragraph or two, if you would, please.
		And include your telephone number.
		And then be available come the 31st when the show hits the air.
		And maybe we'll call you.
		How about that?
		So we'll mix that in with our regular audience.
		You would send such a little missive to me, artbell at mindspring.com.
		That's my email address.
		Artbell in lowercase A-R-T-B-E-L-L at mindspring.com.
		Once again, Art Bell A-R-T B-E-L-L at mindspring.com.
		Don't miss it coming up this Halloween.
		dr botkin back with your calls in a moment Thank you.
		Just before the telephones, let me ask this.
		Dr. Botkin, is there any indication in all of these ADCs you've taken people through of the conditions or what the other side is like or anything beyond the interpersonal communication that takes place between your patients and those who have passed?
		Anything to indicate what the other side is like, what the living conditions are like?
		I know it seems like a silly question, but everybody wants to know.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		You know, yeah.
		A few general themes come through consistently.
		One of those is that the environment that people experience on the other side is very earth-like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now that's comforting.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		And people who expect for whatever reasons that they're going to see the deceased holding a harp and sitting on a cloud up in the sky, they don't get that.
		And they're surprised.
		Many of my patients with certain traditional beliefs are surprised by the earthly environment.
		And if all living things emit this information into this dimension, you know, it's not surprising that it would be very earthly.
		Believe it or we've even ADC'd pets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		People, deceased pets, of course, and people talk about there being rich in beautiful gardens that seem to radiate energy and they glow.
		And one of my favorite comments was a guy said, it was the most beautiful garden I've ever seen.
		He said, it was the greenest green I've ever seen.
		But this might sound a little silly to some, but if all living things emit information into this dimension, plants also go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, sure.
		Is there any indication that people tend to receive, in terms of their living conditions, there, their expectations?
		Or, in other words, I don't know.
		Take me, for example.
		If I were to pop off tomorrow, I'd want radio over on the other side or something that passes from me.
		I've been radio all my life all around me.
		So I want some radio over there.
		You see what I'm getting at?
		Do people get their expectations or are we going to end up in gardens?
		Not that.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		You'd rather be next to a radio than in a beautiful garden.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, I'm pointing that out.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I'm not really sure about that.
		I couldn't tell you.
		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Honest answer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's good.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		People are seen fishing.
		Well, then there's going to be radio shows.
		That's been very encouraging to people who like to fish.
		I haven't seen people doing a radio show, but, you know, who knows?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's right.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		The other thing that consistently comes through is a message.
		And it's a broad, more philosophical kind of comforting message.
		But the main message that comes through is three words.
		And those are, everything is okay.
		Don't worry.
		You know, don't be sad.
		Don't feel guilty.
		You know, you can give up your anger.
		It's all okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everything is okay.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		All of our fears, all of our anxieties are just sort of self-created and sort of products of our current existence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can believe that.
		All right, let's rock.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Bakken.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Doctor?
unidentified		All right, Coast Coast viewers.
		My name is Andrew.
		I'm calling out of Akron, Ohio, WTAM 1100.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I have a remarkable story I'd like to quickly share with you and your listeners.
		It coincides with exactly what you're talking about this evening.
		This gentleman, all your viewers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We don't have viewers, unless they're just staring at the reading.
unidentified		All your listeners...
unidentified		Sorry, I'm a little nervous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		I've listened to you since late 98.
		I never really even believed in paranormal or ghosts or any of that.
		Everything I now believe in and now have learned has come directly from your show and the guests that you've had on.
		Wow, I am a believer.
		This did happen to me.
		Quickly, I'll share.
		Eight months ago, I was driving down the highway, beautiful Friday night in a convertible on my way out, and I saw a bunch of kids down off the side of the road by a car and thought, hey, no big deal.
		I'll pull off the side of the highway here.
		I was on a main route highway.
		Walk down to the car, find out if they needed help.
		It looked like, you know, they were off the road.
		I'm going to help them push the car back on the road so they don't get busted by the police.
		I get down to the car and I see the looks on everyone's face and it's just absolute panic and frustration and I can't understand what's wrong.
		I can't understand what's wrong.
		Finally, I look down and I see later I find out to be a 13-year-old girl laying underneath the front tire.
		I showed up maybe two minutes after this happened, but they were cut off.
		The car did several flips, landed on its wheels.
		This little 13-year-old girl weighed maybe 100 pounds, ended up, I guess, getting thrown from the car and ended up underneath the left front tire.
		The amount of helplessness that was there, it was me and probably three or four teenage kids.
		I had no idea what to do.
		So I kind of rallied everyone and I got them all to pick up the car.
		We all got on the one left side of the car.
		It was a Grand Dam, something similar to a Grand Dam.
		We were able to pick up the entire car from the side all along the driver's side, picked it up, and then proceeded to push it all the way over.
		So it's laying upside down now on the side of the road.
		I went down to the girl, and kind of like what you said with that marine, half of her vase wasn't even there.
		She weighed more than 100 pounds.
		I was trying to feel her neck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you had a horrible experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're having a post-reaction to this experience.
unidentified		What you explained, what you explained is exactly true, the image, the image that you go with and that comes up every single day.
unidentified		I lived a very sheltered life, a very good life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you want to somehow deal with this experience?
unidentified		It happened.
		It happened.
		I'm so elated.
		I'm so guilt-free.
		I met her.
		I met her using the tools that I learned on this show.
		The gentleman who came on talking about the things in your temples that look like almonds, I picked up on that right away.
		My whole life, I've always been psychic.
		I've always been able to make lights go on and off.
		I just never was able to control it.
		And with everything I've learned from all your different guests, I've been able to control amazing things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, your brain can do amazing things.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Are you saying that this girl died and then you communicated with her later?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he's gone.
		But that's what he was saying, yes.
		That he had the experience, roughly the experience, the ADC experience that you're talking about now.
		Can these occur in a spontaneous way?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Yes.
		As a matter of fact, the Guggenheims in their book, Hello From Heaven, we mentioned this at the beginning of the show.
		20% of the population in North America have had these experiences spontaneously.
		So they're not at all rare.
		And the thinking in the field is that some people are just fortunate enough to have them and others aren't.
		Of course, things are changing now in that regard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, I sure would like to know what goes on in the brain during one of these experiences.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's something we have got to find out quickly.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and we can do that now.
		We haven't been able to study near-death experiences and after-death communications because they only occur randomly and spontaneously.
		But now that we can purposely produce them, we can now study them for the first time.
		So I would hope that some researchers would pick up on this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on there with Dr. Bakin.
		Good evening.
		Morning.
		Whatever.
		Hello?
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, good morning.
unidentified		Hi.
		This is Laurie.
		I'm calling from Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, ma'am.
unidentified		KFYI.
		I can relate to that.
		The man that just called.
		Mine is different, though.
		My fiancé passed away almost seven months ago.
		And I am having, you know, it's a daily vision because I was the one that found him.
		And I was wanting to know if there is a technique that can be done at home without having to go to somebody to be able to do this.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		That's a good question.
		And probably a lot of listeners would ask that.
		And the EMDR that I use to produce the experience is so powerful that it's not a good idea for one to do it on oneself.
		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it could be done.
unidentified		Yeah.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		As a matter of fact, I've done it on myself, and I know other professionals who have done it to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was going to ask about that.
		Why do you consider it dangerous, doctor?
		Or inadvisable?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		The ADC itself, like I say, they're always positive, at least so far, out of the few thousand we've done.
		The danger in it is EMDR is so powerful that if you start giving yourself eye movement, you might end up going down a whole different road.
		And you really need an EMDR-trained professional to guide you through that experience.
		It's really hard to guide yourself.
		EMDR can open up not necessarily what you want to work on at the time.
		can open up old wounds or old traumas.
		So it's really kind of hard to...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the one hand, the experience itself is virtually never bad, you said, but misguided, the procedure could take a person into a very apparently bad place.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Well, not a bad, it wouldn't be a bad ADC, I believe, but it would take you to a place of maybe like past childhood trauma or something that you never resolved and just kind of put away.
		It wouldn't be a bad ADC, but it could lead to a bad experience in other ways.
		And it would, you know, my first, as a psychologist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And in what other ways?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		My first, you know, ethical responsibility is don't cause harm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I understand.
		In what ways might it turn out poorly?
		Give me one to imagine so I can understand.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Let's say I have a patient or there's a person who was physically abused as a child.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		And this person recently lost a friend.
		All right?
		And this person would want to ADC the friend.
		Well, when you sit down and give yourself self-eye movement, what might happen, instead of having an ADC with your friend, you might end up pulling up some old trauma and get stuck in a really bad place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You copy that, ma'am?
unidentified		Well, so when you're directing the person, I would be doing the same thing with myself, directing it towards what I would need instead of that.
unidentified		When you're talking to a person, don't you direct them towards what they're moving for?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but if they do have other things, other major psychological events in their life, I need to know that, and sometimes I have to address those first.
		Even professional people who induce ADCs on themselves end up doing a much poorer job with themselves than they do with their own clients.
		And because you get so emotionally caught up in the experience, it's really kind of hard to guide yourself properly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you need a guide as the answer.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		You really do need a guide.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Okay, I'd like to thank my good friend Rick for turning me on to your show, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'd like to thank him, too.
		Thank you.
		See you later.
		There you go.
		Got to have a guide.
		First time caller line, you're on there with Dr. Bakin.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, Art.
		Hi.
		My name is Sharon.
		I'm from Texas.
		And I was just going to ask your guest if he's ever done this on totally blind people.
		I'm visually impaired myself.
		And I'm just with the eye movements and stuff.
		Oh, good question.
		We dream, and sometimes I dream in color.
		I can see in my dreams.
		And I'm just wondering if he's ever done this on a visually impaired person, and I'll let you go so you can get back to the person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you been blind since birth?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have.
		All right.
		I wonder how she knows she's seen color.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		I have worked with one patient I can recall right off the bat who was legally blind.
		He did have some slight vision and was able to follow a large object moving in front of his face.
		And I don't think it's what you see that's important.
		What's important is that you get your eyes shifting whether you're seeing anything or not.
		The other thing is, eye movement works not just with the shifting of the eyes, but any kind of bilateral stimulation.
		So sometimes you can do alternating clicks in the ears with earphones or bilateral tapping.
		You can tap a person on the left and right hand alternately back and forth.
		That seems to have the same effect as the movement of the eyes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you looked into the work that Robert Monroe was doing?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		I'm familiar with it, but I'm not well versed in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It seems to me that the...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It just seems like some of his research would bear on some of the method and the result that you're achieving in your work.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		As a matter of fact, I'll even take it one step farther.
		Some of these mediums who were very successful, or at least most popular, Von Prague, George Anderson, Jonathan Edwards, you know, this is just a guess, but they may be doing a form of EMDR.
		If you ever notice Jonathan Edwards' work, there's times that he seems to look away and move his eyes.
		Both von Prague and Anderson do this kind of scribbling on a pad in front of them with a pen.
		It's kind of a back and forth, side-to-side motion they go through.
		And if you ask them, why do you do that, they're not sure.
		It just seems to help.
		It may be that these mediums are indeed using a form of EMDR to do what they do.
		They're providing themselves with this kind of bilateral stimulation while they're having the experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you had the opportunity to speak at length with any of them, James, for example?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		No, I have not had that chance.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		When I had the opportunity to talk to Dr. Gary Schwartz, of course, he knows and worked with a lot of these folks, and I was able to compare notes kind of through Gary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would there be usefulness for you in your work to be able to interview, for example, James on Prof?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you know, I would, you know, a lot of these mediums, you know, it's kind of a hit and miss kind of thing, but their hits outweigh their misses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		That kind of thing.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		I would love to give these guys, you know, my form of eye movement and see if we can even increase the number of hits to misses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Matter of fact, one way of looking at this is by giving a person eye movement, you're essentially making everybody a medium.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, right, I suppose so.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		I suppose now I realize now, and I want to hedge a little bit and say what I'm talking about now is very speculative.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, many will suggest the whole subject is awfully speculative, but that's all right.
		An awful lot of other people understand that what they're hearing is of great value.
		Thank you.
		Hold on, Dr. Botkin.
unidentified		We'll get back to you shortly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A quick break.
		And yes, we are taking phone calls for Dr. Botkin.
		If you have questions, and I bet you do.
		From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Find out more about tonight's guest.
		Log on to coast2coastam.com.
		Never reaching the end.
		Let's go with never meeting the end.
		Beauty at all.
		We described the choosing.
		I can't stand it anymore.
		Cause I love the tone.
		Inside of a touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak root deep in the ground, the wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up from tarmac to the sun again, Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing, to lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing, to have all these things in our memory's heart, and to use them to come to fight.
		Yeah!
		Fight, fight that she's old, take this place, on that strip, you're for me.
		Fight, take a big wall, and take my wish, I'm gonna sing, it's for free.
		Wanna take a ride?
		Call our bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-6188-255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-8255-033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		The wildcard line is open at 1775-727-1295.
		And to call out on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with our bell from the Kingdom of Not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a very interesting offer going on right now, and that is when you subscribe to After Dark, you know, the newsletter about this program that goes in depth about stories and guests we have and all the rest of it.
		Right now, one of the greatest men who ever walked this earth was Father Malachi Martin.
		And I did a lot of very early, in-depth interviews with Father Malachi Martin.
		Of course, he has now passed on, as I'm sure you know.
		But with the subscription now, they're giving people a full CD of one of the early interviews with Father Malachi Martin.
		And that's a treasure.
		That's really worth having.
		That's really special.
		So bear it in mind as you consider whether you're going to subscribe to After Dark.
		That's quite a prize.
		The number, if you do want to subscribe, is 1-888-727-5505.
		That's 1-888-727-5505.
		And that, you can take my word for it, is well worth having.
		Back to Dr. Botkin in a moment.
unidentified		Back to Dr. Botkin in a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, I want to give you the opportunity to promote whatever you would like.
		You haven't done any of that, and I know you have a website at least.
		What would you like to tell people about?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Okay, actually, I'd like to mention two sources that I think would be helpful to your listeners.
		One is EMDR, the standard version of EMDR, is available all across the United States and in Europe and Australia.
		And if you want an EMDR therapist close to you, go to EMDR.com.
		And there's a place on that website where you can look up EMDR therapist in your area and get telephone numbers and so on.
		And your first caller, I believe it was your first caller, the one that found the little girl under the tire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		I wasn't really convinced that the ADC resolved that for him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't know.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		I don't know either, but it sounded like he had some tears.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		And sometimes it's hard to tell if they're tears of sadness or tears of joy sometimes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're telling me that this experience will relieve that to the point that you wouldn't relive it with the intensity he was reliving then.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
		Now, sometimes ADCs that occur spontaneously are not complete.
		In other words, not all issues are resolved with sometimes a brief spontaneous ADC.
		And with the eye movement, though, you can continue through that process until all issues get resolved.
		But it also sounds like when he brought up that image, it sounded like that image was still bothering him a lot.
		Now, I would strongly suggest that he go to EMDR.com and go to an EMDR therapist that would help him reduce the intensity of that awful image that he has to live with.
		Number one.
		So number two is my website.
		I and Dr. Craig Hogan have a website on IADC, Induced After Death Communications, and that's www.induced-adc.com.
		So if you have any interest in connecting with a therapist for that procedure, go to that website and you'll get information.
		The problem, I'm also in the process of training as many other mental health professionals as I can to get this technique out to more people.
		But as of right now, the only trained IADC therapists with experience are all in the Chicago area.
		And I hope I can change that and get it out to the East Coast and the West Coast and so on.
		I've trained some other people in other parts of the country, but they're kind of new at it.
		And hopefully with continued support from me, they can get a little more confidence with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Doctor.
		Let's continue on the phones here and see what we get.
		Wild Carline, you're on the air with Dr. Bachen.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, thank you.
		I'll be brief.
		We're running out of time.
		Great show, Art.
		I have been studied from a very early age because I happen to have been gifted with all of the clairvoyant, telepathic, psychokinesis, you name it, gifts.
		But I've also had an extremely traumatic life.
		And in fact, without my name in the records, I've been documented.
		I was severely sexually abused and tortured for double-digit years, which I've survived.
		And I will tell you just a few things.
		It can be physically proven visa values.
		there are things that happen.
		I mean, the trance state you mentioned, whereby they put me on a treadmill, and immediately I left my body.
		I mean, I find it hard to stay in my body, but I left my body.
		My heart rate stopped.
		Everything stopped.
		It was like I was dead, but I wasn't dead.
		And Art, I remember calling you ages ago and talking about how I would put my hands under the caps that were supposed to feel that there was a human hand underneath it, and then they would turn on, but they wouldn't turn on.
		I could stand in front of electric doors.
		They wouldn't turn on if I wasn't in my body.
		And I just also wanted to say that there's some fantastic work coming out of Britain.
		I don't know if you know about the late Sir Oliver Lodge and the work that's carrying on there using basically the concept that radio waves and television, well, the radio waves and the speed of light are similar, and that using a medium, the two, the sort of technological world can meet the spiritual world.
		And I think that's a good idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a good takeoff point right there, Doctor, that the technological world can meet the spiritual world.
		Now, it seems to me that with what you're doing with ADCs, you have the opportunity to create that meeting.
		In other words, get in a lab, begin to find out what is actually occurring in the brain at the moment that people begin to experience these things, and I don't know, take some measurements, find out if there's any electromagnetic field increase around people, whether there's these are the things that you've got to do.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And that's all part of the basic research around this kind of stuff.
		And we need to get on that and get to the bottom of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because when we get to that magic point where these two meet, then we get the resources of science really bearing down on finding what Okay, East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Botkin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, Dr. Botkin, this is Michael in Norfolk, Virginia.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Let me just take off on what Art just said, technology meeting the paranormal world.
		My next-door neighbor, figuratively speaking, over in Virginia Beach, is a religious broadcaster who was taking in contributions in the late 80s at about $230 million a year.
		And when he decided to run for president and to build a political organization, he proved that he could change the face of America as he predicted in the late 70s, that he could control both houses of Congress and the White House, which he has done.
		Now, to take Art's position, a few months ago he had on John Hutchinson, and he seconded the idea that a fund should be created to help people like you do research.
		Why do we not have the kind of seriousness and conviction amongst the executives of the Coast to Coast AM program and premier radio networks to change the world of science that we see in my very controversial next-door neighbor here in Virginia Beach?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, we've just covered that.
		I mean, you're not going to get the kind of money and funding that you're seeking for research until somebody, you know, proves something.
		When somebody actually first proves something, then science will jump in, I think, with both feet.
		But we need that proof.
		So far, science hasn't had it, and so science can't go ask for money to study it.
		And so that's why I'm saying it's so important.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		New ideas in science have always taken a lot of time before they ever become mainstream.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Even Einstein's famous works in 1905.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		A lot of the current physicists at the time went to the grave not accepting Einstein's new findings.
		And these were great physicists.
		Sometimes it just takes ideas to gel and become accepted.
		It just takes time.
		And I don't expect things to change overnight.
		People have certain ways and beliefs about the world and what's important, what works, what doesn't, and so on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's not easily changed.
		First time call our line.
		You're on the air with Dr. Bachen.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		Me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's you.
unidentified		This is Bonnie from Detroit, CPLW.
		Hi.
		It's an honor to talk to you.
		And I was not a believer in, I'm an LPN.
		I've worked with geriatric patients.
		I've, you know, had death experiences with my patients.
		And never anything abnormal happened to me and just led a normal life.
		And one time in Detroit, they had a serial killer.
		And I would take this route down Woodward Avenue.
		And there seemed to be an energy around this motel.
		And this was before the bodies were found.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What bodies?
unidentified		Well, that's what they were strangled, the serial killers' bodies that he had left at the motel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		And I would just become fixated with this is before this was known.
		But they were finding, you know, evidence up and down Woodward Avenue.
		So maybe, you know, I was just, well, I don't know.
		I just, I know what happened to me.
		I know when I went by that motel, there was an energy.
		It was, yes.
		And I told my husband about it.
		I told a couple of people about it.
		And then three weeks later, my husband came in with the news and very excited and said, there's your motel.
		Three bodies were found.
		And after I went by, there was no energy, no premonition of something that was going to happen.
		And it was almost like a phone call from beyond that they were trying to get help to be found.
		And I don't care if anybody believes me.
		I know it happened to me, and I'm just glad I got to share that experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm glad you did, too.
		And that's the way it is with people.
		You know, you can listen to these stories, and the person absolutely knows it's true because they had that experience.
		I've had one experience of precognition in my entire life, and I could tell that story until I'm blue in the face.
		It would sound strange to people, and they go, oh, yeah, right.
		But that's not the way it is to me because I know what happened to me.
		And I guess it's that way with an ADC, doctor.
		You've just got to try it.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		You're sort of going on lack of evidence if you make any judgments about this without having had the experience yourself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you see, you're right.
		If you haven't done it, the idea is kind of scary and a little creepy.
		I mean, it really is, after all.
		You're going into it essentially.
		would it be fair to call it a trance state Altered consciousness?
		What's the right term?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		I would tend to say no.
		In the procedure in inducing an ADC, I use the eye movement to kind of clear away things like the sadness and intrusive negative images and that kind of thing.
		But then I go for that state of receptivity, and I use this high-powered EMDR to help induce that state of receptivity.
		Now, if that's an altered state, I don't know.
		I guess I never looked at it as an altered state or trance state or anything like that.
		The kind of state they're in is a state where they just are not trying to do anything.
		There's no intention.
		They're just sitting there and going with whatever happens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Still, in the loosest sense of the phrase, it's altered consciousness.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're right.
		And in that sense, in a much broader definition of an altered or trance kind of state, yes.
		It's different from our normal waking consciousness where we're thinking about things, we're attending to things in our environment and so on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, a straight answer here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have there been any guided ADCs that went wrong?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Not out of the few thousand we've done.
		It's 100%.
		They've all gone right.
		They've all gone right.
		I have one kind of nice story.
		I love telling this one because it really illustrates this.
		I was inducing one guy, and we were going to ADC his brother, and he's kind of a high-anxious guy and so on.
		But anyway, when I did the induction and he closed his eyes, he suddenly opened his eyes and said, there's a giant claw around my neck.
		It's trying to strangle me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		And I thought, you know, at that point, I had done many hundreds of ADCs, and I thought, well, that couldn't be right.
		And so I encouraged him to go back and see what it was, feeling fairly confident it wasn't a giant claw trying to kill him.
		So anyways, he trusted me, and we went back, or he went back.
		And then he had a real nice ADC.
		When he opened his eyes, he said, you know, that wasn't a giant claw.
		That was my brother giving me a hug.
		So what he did is he misinterpreted the experience.
		And there are times, it's not very common, where people initially will misinterpret.
		And so you just take them back to make sure they, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once the ADC begins, all the fear and trepidation is gone, and the experience is underway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It just wipes all of that away.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		The deceased are always experienced as profoundly peaceful and happy.
		And in the ADC experience, the survivor, my patient, they most often say that they somehow felt that peacefulness of the deceased person, like it was somehow transmitted to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		And all the initial fears about going into this just wash away completely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remarkable.
		Well, Doctor, our time is ending.
		It has been a total pleasure having you here.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Well, thanks, Art.
		I've really enjoyed it.
		Can I just say thanks to a couple people?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Thanks to Jimmy.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		Jimmy was our first caller.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, oh, yes.
dr allan botkin ▲ ● ▼		And he was the one that put the list together, and some of the others weren't available.
		But I also want to thank Bobby.
		Bobby, you know who you are.
		You helped set this thing up.
		But most importantly, I want to thank the many hundreds of combat vets I've worked with over the years because they shared in this discovery with me.
		And it's because of their courage to confront their pain that I was able to get to this point.
		And so my hat's off to all the guys I've worked with over the years.
		I love each and every one of you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it sure made for one heck of a radio show.
		Thank you, Doctor.
		Thank you, Art.
		And good night.
		See you all on Halloween.
		Don't forget those stories.
		Crystal has just the right words to take us out of here.
		From the high desert, good night.
unidentified		Good night in the desert, shooting stars across the sky.
		This magical journey will take us on a ride filled with the longing, searching for the truth.
		Will we make it to tomorrow?
		Will the sun shine on you?

▲