Dr. Allan Botkin reveals how modified EMDR therapy—originally developed by Dr. Francine Shapiro—induced after-death communications (ADCs) in 98% of cases, with patients like Vietnam veteran Jimmy physically feeling interactions with deceased Marines, resolving guilt and trauma. Studies show positive, healing encounters, often involving white light or familiar settings, suggesting consciousness may persist post-death in energy fields. Botkin’s work, published in the Journal of Near-Death Studies, challenges skepticism but warns self-induction risks triggering unresolved pain, stressing professional guidance for safety. Mainstream validation remains elusive, yet his techniques offer closure without external mediums, hinting at science’s slow embrace of profound emotional truths. [Automatically generated summary]
Now, I want to get this in because it is very important.
This coming next week, as many of you know, some of you will not.
I'm going to be doing Ghost to Ghost, the special presentation on Friday night, Saturday morning.
And I want to do something a little special this year.
So bearing in mind that I want the best, the scariest, real ghost stories.
And they're not hard to get.
Ghost stories are not hard to get because they are Legion.
They are everywhere.
They are worldwide.
And they're certainly in this country, across this country.
So many of you have very legit stories to tell, and that's what I want.
So in addition to taking calls from the audience at large, I'm going to ask that those of you that have really good ghost stories to tell on the air, please give me a brief synopsis.
Now that means brief, you know, a paragraph or two.
Not the whole thing, but just a brief synopsis.
And include your telephone number and email this to me.
I amartbell at mindspring.com.
That's A-R-T-B-E-L-L lowercase at mindspring.com.
Or even artbell at AOL.com.
Either way it'll get to me.
And include your phone number.
Be sure and include your phone number because next Friday night, Saturday morning, I will pick what appears to be the cream eau de crop and then perhaps call you, which means that you've got to stand by your telephone.
Now, please, no, cell phones.
Cell phones are defective, insidious, lousy-sounding things that should never go on the air.
So try to make it a landline, if you would, please.
But do send me that email with a brief synopsis.
And don't forget the phone number, and we'll call you, and we'll sort of intersperse those calls with the audience at large.
And that'll be Ghost to Ghost coming up.
One you don't want to miss.
Believe me, you don't want to miss it.
That'll be Friday night, Saturday morning.
So three days for me next weekend.
Friday, Saturday, once Sunday.
All right.
The big news out west, out here in the West, is the catastrophe that's underway in Southern California right now, the fire.
Wildfires that have now burned for days have merged into walls of flames stretching across miles, miles in parts of Southern California.
13 people dead so far, at least 650 homes, that number is going up fast.
650 homes up in flames.
Overmatched firefighters are frustrated, as you can imagine.
A wind that I told you about headed their way indeed got there.
And now, the latest forecast I saw on CNN indicated up to 45 mile-an-hour gusts for Monday as well.
Not good.
Not good.
The state's largest fire in eastern San Diego County caused at least nine deaths, including two died inside their car as they apparently tried to escape the flames.
That's a quote from the sheriff of San Diego.
Now, earlier tonight, I was getting news that because there's so much smoke and for a myriad of reasons, flights in and out of LAX were either delayed or canceled.
USA Radio News at this hour, at the top of the hour, said LAX has closed.
Los Angeles Airport has closed, according to USA Radio News.
That's very serious.
The Monday night football game that was going to be at Qualcomm is being moved to Arizona for obvious reasons.
I mean, this is really serious stuff in Southern California.
I have a lot of friends there who are right on the very edge of this blaze.
People I talk to on ham radio.
Now, I would like to say to those of you on the phone right now, if you're calling for some other reason, please hang up and let some people in the area where the fires are and where they are threatening and close try to get through on the various phone lines.
If you wouldn't mind, please.
I'd like to hear from some people in the area for obvious reasons.
Nobody quite knows how all these fires could have started.
You know, I hear up to 14 fires now.
Some of them have become one, some no doubt set by human hand.
There have been some reports already surfacing of that kind of thing going on.
There are people in Southern California I'm talking to near the virus right now, and they're thinking it's some sort of terrorism.
Well, of course, there's no way to verify that.
But you can imagine why people are beginning to think that, can't you?
These fires are popping up everywhere.
Now, I've got a very good friend down there, Chuck, who is a tower climber.
Chuck is crazy as a loon in terms of climbing towers.
I mean, he will go up a tower that I would never even think about going up, Chuck Razor.
Anyway, he sent a wonderful photograph that he took of a fire in the Simi Valley area.
You've got to get a sense of how really incredibly awful this is.
Awful.
So right on the front page of Coast to Coast AM, you'll see Simi Valley Fire.
This was sent to me by Chuck a couple hours ago.
And if you click on the picture or where it says click here, you can get the larger picture of the cell site in the, if you look carefully, you'll see the freeway there.
And the cell site that was in the picture is now history toast goodbye.
It is a wall of flame as far as the eye can see at the horizon, a wall of flame.
And I know it's hard for many of you to understand the magnitude of what's going on all across the country, but this will give you a little sense, a little taste of the horror of what's going on in Southern California right now.
And again, late news, LAX closed, according to USA Radio News.
Just literal miles and miles of walls of flames in Southern California.
In Iraq, there's a great controversy going on over whether things are getting better or not.
And on the one hand, the administration is constantly telling us we're getting all the bad news.
Well, it's true, we are.
Heading the news, the U.S. Occupation Authority retreated from its headquarters after Iraqi insurgents boldly attacked the heavily guarded hotel with a missile barrage that killed an American colonel, wounded 18, and sent visiting U.S. Deputy Defense Secretary Schoering for safety.
Indeed, it was a very bold blow right at the heart of the U.S. They had a whole back of a truck that was set up to look like something else as a missile battery, and how they got it in there, I don't know, but they did.
So I understand that maybe things are getting better, but that news is rarely reaching us while the number of deaths almost on a daily basis are.
Members of both parties are accusing the White House of stonewalling the Federal Commission investigating the September 11, 2001 attacks by blocking its demands for documents despite threats of a subpoena.
I call on the White House to turn over the documents they are withholding from the Independent Commission and do it now.
That's Senator Joseph Lieberman, a Democrat from Connecticut, co-author of the legislation that created the Independent Commission.
Wow.
Tough words.
Haven't heard talk like that since Watergate.
And here's a little lighter news.
Could use a little bit of that.
In New York, 450 women joined together in a nude photo shoot.
The women crossed their arms to keep warm in the main concourse of the Grand Central Terminal early Sunday as they prepared to pose for Spencer Tunic's latest human art installation.
All 450 of them were nude.
The women all volunteers.
All volunteers.
450 women volunteered to just strip it off.
That's it.
Arrived at 3 a.m.
Sunday, stripped off their clothes, and composed their bodies into sculptural shapes and formations meant to imitate streets, buildings, and cityscapes.
The building was closed to the public during the shoot.
Oh, well.
All right, now, let's leap to something that'll send some chills down the back of your spine to be sure.
This came sailing into my email box.
Oh, I don't know, a few hours ago from a fellow named Russ, and, you know, I thought it worth getting Russ on the phone to ask him about what you're about to hear.
So he had to, he got his mother for support, and so he took his mother over there.
But he was telling them in the hallway of the house, and for some stranger, I guess the kids were just in the hallway, so he just was standing there and he was talking to them.
And he says, Antoinette, he says, Your mom is no longer with us.
She died today.
And the little girl, she says, No, Daddy, mommy's right behind you.
So he turns around, looked, and he, you know, of course he knew she wasn't going to be there, but he didn't see anything.
But then she says, Daddy, don't you see her?
She's walking right towards you, Daddy.
Daddy, she just walked right through you.
This is what Marco told me.
So I said, wow, you've got to be kidding.
And then she said, you know, she went into the living room, and then she said she would come in and visit her at night and sit on the bed, not talk to her, pick up her chain.
This is a tape of a five-year-old that you just heard Russ suggest he had recorded.
It's pretty chilling stuff coming from a five-year-old.
Listen very carefully.
unidentified
I am talking about my mother died in October 31, Halloween, and it was raining out, and I was staying where mommy was, and I was keeping looking out the window, and all of a sudden, Daddy and Grandma came over, and they told me that mommy died on the train, and I almost started crying.
Sorry, did you see Mommy at all, let's say, the past couple of nights last night?
Yeah, I saw her last night, too.
What was she doing?
She was picking up her dress like this.
She was, like, holding her dress up because it was getting too long.
Like, mommy was getting shorter and shorter, and she had to pick up her dress like this.
Mommy was getting short, short, short.
And she had to pick off her dress so she won't trip.
Like, if she trips, she'll just trip right through me.
I mean, when you see her, do you see her as a regular person?
I can see through her whole body.
You can see through her?
Yeah, like, she was standing in front of the bed.
I saw the bed right through her.
Oh, okay, what was my bed?
I saw her in class.
In class?
Yes.
She was like, she was moving.
Well, she moved my notebook.
And I didn't tell my teacher nothing because then I would have to go home.
I seen a social worker one day.
When I was in her office, I saw Mommy's Spirit in Mommy's office.
I was like, oh my God, Mommy Spirit could come in her office too?
Social worker's office, you mean?
Yeah, the social worker's office.
Mommy Spirit came in.
Mommy's Spirit came in, right in the social worker's office.
I went, oh, I said, Miss Janet, look at it.
I see Mommy Spirit.
And she said she couldn't hear anything.
And I go, you can't see because if you see, if you she only shows people that she trusts that she will tell nobody, and she only shows it to me, and that's the only person who shows to me.
Okay, how about the weekends you stay at Wendy's?
Does mommy go to Wendy's house too?
Yeah.
She goes everywhere where I go.
Everywhere you go?
Yeah.
Does mommy move around Daddy's apartment?
Um, Shoni moves into, um, where you do, um, your writing, your laser face.
Shall we move into there into my room and then goes out the door into the living room?
Angela, does mommy see, uh does mommy see, like, those those mask cards daddy put up in that room?
Yeah, she sees it.
I was sleeping, um, on, I was, like, sleeping on my dunk bed, and mommy just flew over there.
I just thought, I saw her, and she was going like this, trying to think.
She was trying to think if I could hear her or not.
And she was, and I was, she didn't, I don't know why she couldn't talk.
But after she stopped going like this, my voice started to get lower and lower, like very low.
And I couldn't like talk, even talk and talk.
Because it was, I don't know if Mommy had magic spells or nothing because I didn't even know because it's so hard for me to know about my mother because it's very hard.
Does mommy s uh tell you why she wanted nobody to see her but you?
Well, because she thought that she thought that she was going to tell everybody that I'm seeing spirits and she trusts me that I won't tell nobody that I'm seeing spirits except the social worker.
And she thinks that you're going to be telling the whole world or something.
Anything else you're going to do you want to say anything?
And there are many ways, of course, that you could look at such a thing, and that would be that a child is seeing what a child wants to see, and that is mommy still being there.
Although the manner in which she described it, I found to be so dispassionate in a way as almost not to be a concocted story.
It sounded just like she was telling what she saw.
And she is but one of millions of Americans who have seen what appear to be ghosts.
It's a term coined by University of Cincinnati marketing professor James Polaris.
Unexpected and insidious, the earworm slinks its way into your brain and refuses to leave.
Symptoms vary.
Although very high levels of annoyance and frustration are very common, there are numerous potential treatments, but there is no cure for the earworm.
none.
It is a term coined by Universal...
I quickly learned, he said, that virtually everybody experiences earworms at one time or another.
I think because it's experienced privately and not often a topic of conversation, maybe people really long for some social comparison.
They want to know if other people experience what they experience.
Galeris, whose most pervasive personal earworm, Byzantine chants, likely has something to do with his wife's job as a church choir director, has been interested in the topic of earworms for decades now.
As a musician who now struggles, studies, how the marketeers reach the public, began wondering how widespread stock songs really are, and began doing surveys back in 2000.
You've experienced it.
I've experienced it.
I think most people have experienced it.
They hear a song and it won't go away.
It's locked in your brain.
It's going around and around and around and around in your brain, driving you nuts.
You need to hear it until your ears bleed and you're cured.
The only thing that'll cure you is hearing it enough times that you finally say, enough!
Otherwise, an earworm will wiggle its way through your brain endlessly while you're trying to figure out what something is that's haunting you.
Music, indeed, can do that.
It haunts in the way some spirits appear to.
And that particular song was one, and that earlier one, then one for me, and you just have to sort of keep hearing it.
Anyway, more.
Oh, I do want to hear.
Those were the numbers, and I want to hear from people in the fire area.
If you're particularly on the front lines of one of these fires in Southern California, the first-time caller line would be a good way to go at area code 775-727-1222.
There's something really big in Campbell County, Tennessee.
For the past two weeks, over 100 cats have disappeared or have been found half-eaten in Campbell County, Tennessee.
Yesterday, the Campbell County, Tennessee Sheriff's Department officially opened an investigation into complaints from over two dozen residents of the College Hills section of Campbell County regarding a large smelly primate weighing in at better than 400 pounds.
Today at 5 o'clock, WATE Channel 6 Knoxville reports that many sightings of a large, smelly primate have been reported during the past 35 years In the rural mountains of Campbell County, Tennessee, which is located about 30 miles north of Knoxville,
a cryptozoologist showed images of skunk apes to several complainants in Campbell County, and it does appear the primate is either a skunk ape or some other undocumented creature related to the primate family.
These sightings are from local native residents who are used to seeing bear, panther, and other large creatures in their area.
They know what they're looking at, and what they're looking at is not one of the above.
On the first time caller line, you are on the air.
Yeah, basically, I have most of my coworkers here have had to have been evacuated from their homes, and you can't see the moon, no stars, and it's smoke.
You can't see anything.
It's hard to breathe, and it's just terrible over here.
Right now the wind is a bit on the calm side, but weather reports are saying that's supposed to be picking up probably by morning, and we've got an advisory going until 2 p.m. tomorrow.
Well, they just closed, according to the network, they closed LAX.
Just closed it altogether.
And they're moving Monday Night Football's game.
It's a big deal.
650 homes, 27,000, I've heard, without power.
Do you have power?
unidentified
Yeah, we got power over here, but it's kind of been flickering on and off.
We lost two major radio stations on the FM band, and they've been on and off, and one of the major ones that have like an 80,000 range are completely out.
Yes, well, a lot of towers, of course, are located on where else, mountains, along with cell sites and the rest of it, repeaters, and they're all going up in smoke.
Yes, current CNN forecast I was watching earlier, they're expecting up to, I don't know, like 45 miles an hour gusts later in the day, so that's not good news.
Tuesday, at least, it should calm down, but that's a lot of fire between now and then.
unidentified
Yeah, and I have a co-worker who had a house in Scripps Ranch that he was in the process of closing escrow on another house.
Well, as I was saying, you try to believe and grasp some of the reports that are suggesting things in Iraq are getting better, and I'm sure in some regard they are.
Services are coming back and the rest of it, but the frequency and severity of the attacks on Americans and American interests and the new Iraqi government is pretty fierce, to be sure.
So we've really got ourselves into something in Iraq, and one has to wonder what the exit strategy is going to be and whether that was considered prior to our entry.
I know certainly the reasons for the entry into the Iraqi war are somewhat at question.
There are a number of reports indicating the intelligence used was less than convincing and single-sourced when it should have been multi-sourced.
Sometimes it's good, you know, we're so detached in so many ways.
We hear about things on radio, we hear about things on television, but we're so detached.
I guess we've seen so much horror, one way or the other, that that's an easy thing to do in the modern world with the electronic media.
You can become detached and not really understand what it means.
You hear about it, but not really understand what it means to be facing something like that.
That's why I thought that Chuck's photograph was so good, the one up on Coast to Coast AM right now.
Chuck Razor took this, and it'll give you a sense, I think, of what it would be like to have a home and to see what's in this picture coming at you, coming directly at you.
To sit back for a while and watch the picture and imagine being there.
And thought I'd let you know that I have theories, but more than that, I wanted to talk about the goodness in people and how people came out here in Claremont.
I think when I talked to you, you said you were 20 blocks from the fire.
unidentified
Right.
And I did go up and spend a lot of time at our emergency operations center.
Within the first hour after we saw the fire coming over the hill, we had over 100 responders, emergency responders, sheriff's department, police departments from neighboring cities.
It was just magnificent to see them come.
And then the horror of watching people losing their homes, as we told them, they had to evacuate, mandatory evacuations.
What I actually said was that there are friends of mine who are beginning to say things like that, whether there could be terrorist actions involved in something like this.
That's not to say it's proven, just that people are saying that.
Southern California is virtually on fire as we do this program.
Virtually on fire.
The bombs are going off in Iraq.
And in a moment, we're going to interview Dr. Alan Botkin.
Dr. Botkin is a licensed clinical psychologist with over 20 years of experience in treating patients who suffer from grief and traumatic loss.
He's made groundbreaking discoveries.
For example, he found as a result of experimenting with variations of a relatively new and very powerful psychological procedure called eye movement desensitization and reprocessing, or EMDR, I guess for short, that he could reliably induce in his patients an experience that they believed was actual contact with the deceased person they were grieving.
After-death communications, or ADCs, are not rare.
They've been reported to occur naturally and spontaneously In 20% of the entire population of this country, although ADC experiencers have been recognized, these experiences have been recognized as very healing, it's been believed for some time by researchers in the field that these experiences can only occur randomly and spontaneously.
Dr. Botkin's discovery, on the other hand, which he calls induced after-death communication, or IADC, makes these experiences available to virtually all of you.
He and his colleagues have induced well over 3,000 ADCs in the last eight years.
and that ladies and gentlemen is what we're going to talk about in a moment Thank you.
I didn't intend to end up where I'm at with it today.
I really stumbled into it.
I started out, I've been working with primarily males at a VA hospital in the Chicago area with post-traumatic stress disorder, PTSD.
And these guys were all combat veterans who suffered severe and traumatic losses.
And for years, I worked for about 20 years on the PTSD unit.
And for the first 10 or so, we really struggled.
And life was difficult because once these guys got in touch with their traumatic memories, which we encouraged them to do, that really brought back their experiences in full.
And it was a very long, painful kind of work we were doing.
There are a lot of painful memories, and I took a trip back to the Far East, almost went to Vietnam and contemplated going to Vietnam and didn't do it at the last minute for reasons that I'm not even altogether sure of, but I just decided not to.
What is it about the human brain that when you relive a very traumatic experience, as in war or whatever it is, that there is a process of healing?
What is it about the human brain that is healed by that process?
Well, the memories, the traumatic memories are so locked in and they replay in one's mind through daily intrusive recollections or through nightmares.
They play over and over just as the event occurred in real time.
When one makes a trip to Vietnam and perhaps goes to a, the guy would go to a place where a battle was, where he experienced a trauma, he would see that it's different.
He would see that what's going on in his mind isn't going on there anymore.
Yes, I've had some nightmares about Vietnam, and I wake up in the middle of the night, and I'm so angry about having the nightmares that I don't go back to sleep.
I mean, I'm afraid to go back to sleep or something.
I don't know, whatever.
I just won't go back to sleep.
It's like a real nightmare.
All right.
Well, anyway, you are doing research into people meeting their dead relatives and having encounters with them.
Right.
I've got a million questions, but I'll go with a few of yours.
I mean, Jonathan Edwards, James von Prague, I know James, he's a very good friend, George Anderson, all of these people claim to be able to bring us information from dead relatives.
You know, before I stumbled in to what I'm doing, and I basically stumbled in through it through experimenting on variations of this eye movement treatment, I stumbled into something that started to produce these experiences in my patients.
Now, I strongly differentiate myself from mediums like these folks because I don't have any special powers or gifts.
I just have a technique that works for my patients.
As a matter of fact, I thought it was all kind of silly until I started talking to hundreds and then a few thousand patients who had very similar experiences to what these mediums were reporting.
So I had to go back and take a second look.
And it does seem that some of these mediums do come up with information at times that goes way beyond chance.
And so I have some interest in that now, but I guess what I offer that's a little bit different is you don't have to go to a medium now to have someone translate messages, and then you don't have to think about whether was that a hit or a miss?
After sitting there and listening to a few thousand of these and the conviction with which these people report their experiences, I have come around to lean towards believing that these people are really communicating with the deceased.
I would have thought that if I had asked you a certain question, I could have probably ruined the whole rest of the interview.
I would have asked you, I think, whether it would matter whether they're real or not.
From your perspective as a psychologist, if a person went through a healing experience because they thought they had just communicated with a dead relative and all was well, or whether it really happened, it wouldn't matter that much to you.
Well, I started believing it was real when actually the only formal study I did was my first 83 patients that I attempted to produce this ADC experience on purpose.
And 81 of those 83 had an ADC.
So the reliability of the technique was at 98%.
Out of those 83 people, only 8 of them believed beforehand that such an experience was possible.
Okay, here's something that bothers me, since I think I'm a believer, and I think you are too.
Apparently so.
I read that scientists are able to produce in the human brain with electrodes attached in the right way, dispensing the right amount of current to the right neurons.
I really don't know about all of that, but they're able to produce in a human subject a near-death experience.
The tunnel, the relative, the relatives there, the friends, the white, soothing, wonderful, light, the whole ball of wax.
They're able to induce that scientifically.
And that makes me scratch my head a little bit about you.
And some of the people who make that argument about NDEs say that these brain mechanisms are triggered in a dying brain.
And that's why people have this experience.
Well, when I first started inducing these, and I didn't know what they were, they sounded to me like near-death experiences because in these ADC experiences, people were often frequently went through tunnels, and they very often saw people surrounded by white, beautiful lights and all this kind of stuff.
And so at first I thought, you know, geez, this sounds like near-death experiences that my patients are having.
But my patients aren't anywhere close to death.
They're live, healthy, very healthy people, and they're having the same experiences that NDE people have, and they're not anywhere close to death.
Plus, my other argument is just because a brain mechanism is responsible for an experience doesn't make the experience not real.
If I go out in my backyard and look at a tree, certain parts of my brain are going to light up.
And when we dream, it appears that our brain is actually processing more than when we're awake or at a higher speed.
It seems like that increased processing causes our eyes to shift when we dream.
Now, the discovery of eye movement seems to be that if you take a fully awake person and get his or her eyes shifting back and forth, we cause the brain to go into that high processing mode.
And at first I really didn't buy that when it first came out, but that fits all clinical experience.
Well, you know, we do, and we regenerate, and we restore, but part of our restoration comes from that a lot of work our brain does when we're dreaming and we're sleeping.
When we first started doing EMDR with our combat veterans, we could literally sometimes in 10 to 15 minutes go through that ABCD that we were unable to do in months and years of therapy with the same problem.
People just move through it more quickly, which then provides clinical evidence that our brains are indeed processing at a much higher level.
One of my favorite sayings is a Thomas Edison, which is we don't know a millionth of 1% about anything.
And I think we're just in this area with NDE and ADC research and some of this information, you know, has relevance to questions humankind has had all along.
You know, I think we're really just now just getting started, really taking a look at what's going on, what's going on in the brain, what's going on, you know, with different systems.
Are a lot of doctors now beginning to leave the physiological explanation and beginning to join you in believing, either quietly or publicly, that something really is going on beyond the physical?
They iced down her body until all vital signs stopped.
And for 40 or 45 minutes, they operated on this woman, went in, clipped out the aneurysm because she had no blood pressure, because she had no beating heart, sewed her up, warmed her up, returned her to life.
She had a near-death experience.
And I recall they interviewed some.
And of course, everybody, you know, it was a 60-minute, but maybe she didn't have an NDE.
I just really can't remember.
But they interviewed a doctor about the whole affair.
And the guy from 60 Minutes at the end of the piece was like shaking his head.
He was going, where was she for that 40 minutes?
And then they interviewed some doctor.
And the doctor said something like, well, you know, here's what happened.
The brain is dying from the outside in.
And as that process occurs, dopamine is released so that the person's having a pleasant experience.
And what they're seeing is indeed a center light, the center of the brain, as their brain shrinks toward complete death.
That's what doctors like to say.
And you suggest, doctor, that they ought to come have this experience before they say too much, huh?
As I was saying before, first of all, I changed the way I did eye movement.
So I'm not talking about standard EMDR, the way it's taught.
I changed it considerably.
And essentially what I did is I began eye movement by going after what I called the core affective issues, the core emotion.
In other words, when someone presents with a grief issue, they usually present a number of feelings, anger, guilt, anger for how the death occurred or guilt, maybe I could have done something or I wasn't there when he or she died.
But at the very core of all loss is deep, deep sadness.
And people often use their anger and guilt sort of as a defense so they don't have to experience their deep sadness.
Well, what I started doing, and I call it core-focused EMDR, is I began EMDR sessions by going right after the core, right after the core sadness.
And when I did that and was able to successfully process that core sadness, essentially we were done and the more protective feelings of anger and guilt vanished without even being directly addressed.
Well, I'm simply having them access their core feelings of sadness, and when they access it or are in touch with those feelings, I have them move their eyes in a particular rhythmic fashion.
In other words, you're putting the person in that particular setting of remembering this sadness and addressing this sadness, and then you're starting their eye movement.
And you're actually instructing them, this is eyes open, awake stuff.
I have them either follow my hand or something I move in front of their face, and so their eyes are shifting rhythmically while they're re-experiencing their sadness.
And I've had a couple people disagree with me on this, but I think most people who are familiar with both EMDR and hypnosis think of them as different.
If you think of what's going on in your head, your consciousness is like a projector in a screen where it's always like the film's always running.
You always got something going on in your head.
What hypnosis does is it slows down the projector and you can even stop it on an individual frame.
And that's why people use hypnosis to recover memories.
Of course, the problem with that is you can also create false memories by putting things on that film that don't belong there when you're in that highly suggestible state.
EMDR, on the other hand, actually, by virtue of the fact that it increases brain processing, it actually gets a stuck projector rolling again.
The reason I say that is guys who have traumatic memories, they're stuck in a moment in time when this awful event Occurred.
And there are even neuroimaging studies, some preliminary studies in the field that indicate that actually different parts of the brain light up pre- and post-EMDR.
The part of the brain that lights up prior to EMDR, when the person accesses the memory, it's the older, deeper structures where the fight-or-flight response is.
It's kind of a here-and-now, knee-jerk kind of response.
After EMDR, when a person accesses the memory, the higher parts of the brain light up where it becomes more of an abstract kind of memory.
It takes the reliving component out of it.
EMDR does not erase a traumatic memory from one's mind, but it takes the reliving component out of it.
I've had guys say after EMDR, he says, you know, this is strange, but, you know, it feels like it's 30 years ago now.
So when that started happening about 15% of the time, these guys left the office, these patients, feeling way better than the guys who even fully processed their memory.
When Sam was in Vietnam, he got really close to an little orphaned Vietnamese girl, about 10 years old.
All right?
And they developed a very close relationship, kind of like a father-daughter kind of relationship.
And this little girl, we'll call her Lee.
She reminded him of his sisters growing up.
And he got very close and very fond of her and so on.
Well, he decided at some point, even wrote home to his wife and parents, and he said he wanted to adopt Lee and bring her back home.
Well, he wasn't aware of the fact that the U.S. government was very likely not going to allow that, but he had made plans.
Well, one day orders came down that all the local orphaned Vietnamese kids had to be shipped off to a distant village where there was a Catholic orphanage.
So one day Sam and some of the other soldiers were loading about, it was about 12 little kids up on a flatbed truck to be taken away.
And Sam was all broken up.
He realized he might not see Lee again and so on and so forth.
And it was right around that time shots rang out and a sniper was shooting at him.
And so bullets were zipping over everyone's head.
So the soldiers pulled the kids off the flatbed and onto the ground to a point of relative safety.
And as soon as the shooting started, as quickly as it started, it stopped.
Somebody got the sniper or the sniper ran off, I forget, but they started loading the kids back onto the truck, and they were getting the kids up, and Sam noticed he didn't see Lee anywhere.
And Sam walked around to the back of the truck and saw Lee laying face down with a spot of blood on her back.
And when he rolled her over, he saw that a single bullet had gone through her back and blew the front part of her torso completely open, and she was dead.
And that was really the cause of Sam's psychological undoing at that point.
And he became very angry.
Pretty much lived the rest of his time in Vietnam in a full rage to protect himself from that deep loss.
And when he came home, he pretty much isolated in his basement and even avoided his own daughter, who reminded him of Lee.
But anyway, he came in and he presented this in a group situation, and we went to sit down to do eye movement.
And I went right after his sadness.
And another thing I do differently from standard EMDRs, I always have my patients close their eyes after I give them a set of this eye movement.
First thing that I guess hit me, if I can just interrupt, is if his brain was concocting something to protect itself, to heal itself, then you would have expected that his brain would have manifested a Lee as he remembered her, not as she might have been at 30 years old.
Well, you know, I saw this guy a week later and then a month later and then I talked to him a couple years later.
And whereas before he couldn't even talk about Lee and the death of her, it was so painful.
He loved talking about her.
He was happy when you brought the subject of Lee up.
And if he hallucinated, I figured his happiness wouldn't last.
But it did.
As a matter of fact, that was about eight years ago.
And I haven't talked to him in the last year or two.
But as of a five-year follow-up, he was still feeling really good about the whole thing.
And automatically, his situation at home dramatically improved, where he was relating to his daughter the first time and so on.
Because his daughter then no longer triggered painful memories.
What's so therapeutic about the induced ADC is that positive experience tends to take the place of the negative experience.
And sometimes after an ADC, a person will say, you know, I can't even bring up that awful image of when I turned Lee over and that picture in my head when I saw her dead.
He said, you know, before it used to come to me every night, and now it's like I have a hard time even bringing up that negative image.
I mean, if you honestly believe you just had an experience meeting with, interacting with a person who is dead, it would change your view not just about the incident, I would think, but about every aspect of life.
To understand that this life is not over when it's over, that there really is more is so profound.
What I have found kind of goes against that a little bit.
And let me tell you, I say quite often that beliefs really have nothing to do with this because it doesn't matter if you believe it's going to work for you or not.
But before I do the procedure, as a matter of fact, skeptics are even a little easier to induce.
It doesn't matter what you believe.
And it also doesn't matter what you believe afterwards because 94% in my first study believed that they actually communicated with the deceased.
But even the 6% that didn't still experienced a full resolution of grief.
So it was the experience itself that was healing, not a subsequent change in beliefs.
Now the other thing is, the third argument why beliefs I think play a minor role in all of this is I would have thought if you had an ADC with one deceased person, that would help you with other losses in your life.
Because then you now believe that there's a better place and so on and so forth.
And now, you know, the death of, say you worked on the death of your friend, and now you shouldn't be sad about the death of your mother.
Whether we could set up some kind of an experiment to verify it is another whole story.
Frequently in an induced after-death communication, sometimes people show up and my patient will say, well, why was he there?
He's alive.
And I haven't seen him in five years, but he's alive.
And each time we were able to check and verify that, we found out that indeed that person had died.
Now, probably the closest thing that comes to any kind of proof is something we did.
And we sort of stumbled onto this, too.
But this is kind of an interesting story.
I trained many doctoral-level interns in psychology.
And I taught them how to do this procedure.
And they got just as good at it as I was.
I don't have any special powers.
I think the powers and the technique.
But I had an intern once who had seen me induce ADCs before and was very good at inducing ADCs himself.
Well, one day I was going to induce a patient, and he came in and sat and observed the session again because he didn't have anything else to do.
He asked if he could watch another one, you know, and I and the patient both said yes.
Sure.
Well, he came in and sat down, and while I was working with the patient, for some reason, this intern closed his eyes and started giving himself eye movement.
Well, something very, very unusual happened, which was my intern essentially eavesdropped in on my patient's ADC.
They had the exact same experience at the exact same time.
Now, if these are brain-induced hallucinations, it's more difficult to believe that these two people randomly had the same hallucination at the same time.
If you get two people looking at the same thing, then it offers a strong argument that there's some objective reality going on.
Indeed.
And we did this seven or eight times, and we kind of cleaned it up in terms of how we did this so we wouldn't misinterpret it.
And my intern would then, and I did this with a couple different people, the observer would move his or her eyes while we did this, but before the patient said anything about his experience, and I say his because I worked in a VA.
The intern would write down everything he or she experienced and then hand me that piece of paper, and then the patient would say what his experience was, and it was essentially the same thing that I was just doing.
Yeah, I think the difference between the psychomantium approach and the EMDR approach is my approach is just a little quicker and a little more efficient.
My success rate is a little higher.
When I first started doing this, like I said, out of my first 83 patients, I was getting a reliability at about a 98%.
Have you ever wondered, Jimmy, or even cared whether this was something inside your own brain or whether it's as real as you and I talking on the phone and the radio right now?
Does it matter?
unidentified
Yes, it does matter.
I needed to know, and I didn't want this to be something that was false or fake or something that I created in my own mind.
I knew, and if you did it yourself, you would know and you would understand.
I knew that it took me back there.
Everything was so real, so real, that it's hard to believe.
It really is hard to believe that just sitting down and getting the eye movement, that it could actually take you back to the time that you were there.
Because it's like if a person has one ADC, to frame it in those terms, and a loss creates that profound sense of disconnection, when you have an induced after-death communication and reconnect, that resolves that sadness or that loss and all the attendant guilt and anger and so on.
But that reconnection does not generalize to other disconnections through a belief system.
If this is a real phenomenon, then surely, Doctor, at times the person having the ADC was perhaps somehow horribly in the wrong, or the person that died really blames their death on the person having the ADC.
I guess what I'm asking is, do ADCs ever turn out to be negative affairs?
It always seems like it's healing, but how many people are there?
Out of the few thousand ADCs that I and my colleagues have done, they have all been positive.
Now, that even includes people who have ADC'd horribly abusive fathers.
And one would think that by having the patient access the memory of the deceased father and so on and so forth, and if a person was imagining this, they would see in their ADC this horribly abusive father.
But these horribly abusive fathers always come across as sincerely apologetic, sincerely willing to take all responsibility for what they did.
They seem to be very, they're experienced as very, very different.
And I think I know why.
When a person has a near-death experience, or a death experience rather, one of the components is the life review.
And people who have had a life review as a part of their near-death experience come back as completely changed people.
Because what happens is you not only experience all the feelings that you had in life from moment to moment, you also experience the feelings you caused in others.
So you can imagine an abusive person or a person who was by all standards a bad guy in life having a life review and seeing the pain and the agony that you've caused in other people.
That life review is really a life-changing experience.
And so it's interesting to note that when you induce an after-death communication, the deceased are always experienced as if they have been through a life review.
Maybe this has something to do with, I mean, we could look at the biblical end of it, for example, and assume that even the very worst criminals who seek Jesus before the very end and the switch is thrown or the whatever actually do get it, that there is that forgiveness.
And then we're dealing with a different sort over on the other side.
You asked me about how do I do this induction, and I left out the very last part of it, which is crucial.
As I was saying, when I was first doing this core-focused eye movement, which is a different form of eye movement, about 15% of my guys were having this experience.
And I thought, wouldn't it be nice if I could raise that beyond 15% so more people could have this good feeling?
And I went back and looked in my notes in cases where people had the experience and cases where people didn't have the experience.
And I noticed in the cases where people did have the experience, I did do one other thing differently, which was I induced accidentally at the time, a state of receptivity or what I call a receptive mode.
In other words, I gave them eye movement when I got their sadness down, and I instructed them, just go with whatever happens.
And essentially, at the time, I was giving them that last set of eye movement just to help them relax further.
And it was at that point people started having these after-death communications.
So then I thought, well, I wonder if I added this receptive mode thing at the end with an additional set of eye movement that I could improve on it.
And that's when the 15% jumped all the way up to 98%, then virtually everybody was having it.
So I had to induce this state of receptivity.
so it's a second set of instructions given at the right moment to begin the rapid eye movement this is after you've been through the the most the sadness and And I take a lot of time, a lot of care with patients I work with to tell them, to warn them of that ahead of time.
Your sadness is going to go up, but if it does, you stay with me.
Just stay with me.
But once the sadness goes up, I eye move them, the sadness starts to come down.
At that point, I give them another set of eye movement with the idea of inducing this state of receptivity.
And the 2 percent that they weren't having ADCs, it was really clearly obvious why they just didn't want to follow through on the procedure or something else came up they didn't want to work on or something.
But I did run into a little bit of a snag, which was once I announced my services, and people can get that on inducedadc.com.
But once I announced my services, people then started coming to me to have an ADC experience.
The 98% were people who came to me for trauma work or grief work.
They weren't coming with the expectation of having an ADC.
Those people were just simply easier to induce.
When people were coming to me to have the experience, their sense of expectation, their anticipation, I tended to attract people that already had beliefs that something like this was real and so on and so forth.
So they were loaded with beliefs.
Those people, I found out, were a little bit more difficult to induce.
And the reason is that those beliefs and expectations and so on interfere with the establishment of that receptive mode I was talking about.
You know, I believe in something that I've experienced myself directly, or when I talk to, you know, hundreds of people who tell me that they saw the same thing, then I tend to believe there's something to it.
If I never see it or I don't talk to anybody who ever saw it, you know, then I remain a skeptic.
Now, ghosts are scary.
You know, Halloween's coming up and so on.
And all the induced ADCs I've done, there's nothing scary about it.
Now, beforehand, people might say, you know, Doc, this sounds spooky or scary.
Why is the concept of a ghost any more out on the limb than Dr. Botkin is with what he's discovered?
I mean, in a way, they complement each other.
The possibility of ghosts is certainly complemented by the fact that you can take people back and have conversations, apparently contemporary ones, with dead people.
Well, my original study, which describes the technique and has a few cases in it and so on, appeared in the spring 2000 edition of the Journal of Near-Death Studies.
And I put it in that journal because of the similarity I believed at the time between after-death communications and NDEs or near-death experience.
I soon came to believe that they're really essentially the same phenomenon experience from somewhat different perspectives, of course.
But anyway, that was my first and only published work so far.
Right now, we have a book proposal out there, and we're trying to get a publishing deal.
If any publishers are out there, please give me a call.
And, you know, with his lab he has in Arizona, I would love to do hard research on this and use EEG equipment and MRIs to see exactly what's going on in the brain and maybe do some of these shared ADCs I mentioned where two people have the same experience.
Yeah, I mean, I would love for someone else to pick this up and do it because if I do research on my own hypothesis, then it's going to be a little bit more questionable.
Raymond Moody is my hero, my hero in my adult life, and I was honored when he invited me a few years ago to go speak at the University of Nevada at Las Vegas.
And I went and did a presentation there and Had a chance to spend a couple days with Raymond and kind of follow him around and talk.
And I just think he's a wonderful person.
And he, you know, I'm just really, he was the first to do this.
And I just sort of came along with something, you know, maybe just a little quicker and a little more reliable.
But, you know, he's, you know, he started this all.
And I remember when his book came out, I remember Life After Life came out somewhere in the 70s.
You know, I thought, boy, that sounds like a bunch of blue-raha and so on.
But he made the point in his book that people aren't going to tell you about their NDEs unless you ask them in a sincere kind of way because people don't go around telling everybody because they know that other people are going to think they're crazy.
So anyway, working in a hospital with many people who are very sick and so on or had situations on the battlefield, I began to ask and I found out that indeed NDEs were very common.
And I've talked to many hundreds of people who have had near-death experiences.
But then Raymond Moody came out with his book, Reunions, where he presented the psychomantium approach where he was actually inducing these after-death communications.
And I thought, well, you know, I thought Raymond Moody did such great work with NDEs.
You know, it sounds to me like he's going off on the deep end now, you know.
And I thought, you know, this sounds goofy.
I didn't buy it right away.
But anyway, once I stumbled into ADCs many years later, like I said, the first thing I related it to were near-death experiences, my patients' experiences.
But Raymond was always so many steps ahead of the rest of us.
It took me a lot of time to catch up.
And who knows what he's up to now, but I bet you it's good.
Any theory on that starts with, I believe, people who have had the experience.
And like I say, the technique works even better with skeptics.
And when you can change a skeptic's mind completely in a half-hour session, something powerful is going on that certainly deserves attention.
And like I said, when people have the same ADC experience at the same time, that tends to prove there's some kind of objective reality to the experience.
But beyond that, I think there's some recent findings in the field of biophysics that I think are absolutely astounding and may eventually explain a lot of this stuff.
Back in the, I believe it was the 50s, the Kerlians developed a special photography procedure where they saw this aura around living things by their special development of their pictures.
And that never really caught on.
It was difficult to replicate.
And scientists at the time didn't really have any models that would help them understand what this could possibly be.
Of course, people at the time thought, well, maybe this aura, this energy that we're seeing in these pictures, maybe has something to do with soul or spirit.
A few of the hippies picked up on it back then, but then it kind of died.
Recent biophysicists across the planet, and it's primarily in Europe and Asia, and there's not too much going on in the United States, but they have been finding that all living systems do indeed emit light and emit information.
Light or photons carry information in a very efficient manner.
And it's certainly possible that this may eventually explain the concept of solar spirit.
And that's another kind of thing I'd like to work on in Dr. Schwartz's energy lab is sort of measuring some of these biofields, these energy fields, to see if we're getting changes in those during an ADC.
But once light is emitted, which carries this information, once we die, all the information that we emitted for a lifetime is still there.
Once emitted, it doesn't depend on its source anymore.
It's the same thing when you turn on a flashlight.
Once the flashlight doesn't work and you throw it away, well, all the light that that flashlight emitted for its lifetime continues on and is no longer dependent on the source.
It's the same things when we look at stars at night.
Sometimes I have a hard time deciding if I'm a genius or a fool.
But when I sat there working with these patients and we did a few thousand ADCs, I became convinced that it was my duty to bring this to the rest of the people on the planet.
It's something that's good, it's very healing, and it may lead to some ultimate answers about the whole life and death issue.
And I really feel it's my moral duty to get this out.
That's why I'm on your show tonight.
I want people to know about this.
I want other scientists and researchers to pick up on it.
I think some people ask the question, well, gee, if it's so nice over there and if this is true that there is indeed an afterlife, aren't a bunch of people going to go out and commit suicide?
And the answer to that is no.
And to any of those who might consider suicide, I would want you to think of this, which suicide is ultimately a very selfish act.
Because generally, whether you've got a million friends or one friend in life or one person that cares about you, when you kill yourself, you're going to hurt those other people.
And in your life reviewed, in your near-death experience, you're going to experience the hurt you caused in other people.
You know, if this is true, you can't kill someone and they go away forever.
You're going to eventually have to face them again.
And indeed, the combat vets I've worked with and the people they've killed, at the time they might have killed somebody feeling a lot of anger and rage and exhilaration.
But, you know, later in life, when that anger starts to drop off, or, you know, it can be much later in life, people start to feel guilty.
You know, I remember the look, you know, of fear in the eyes of the enemy before I shot him and so on.
And, you know, that face-to-face kind of killing is always very difficult.
And many of my vets have ADC'd enemy soldiers they killed.
And they always worked it out.
It always ended up a positive result.
As a matter of fact, it's interesting.
Some of my vets have come away.
Many of them have said, you know, they say, you know, Doc, it's really strange.
I just not only feel like he and I are okay with each other, I feel like we now have a special bond, like we're friends.
By the by, everybody, I'd like to remind you that if you don't get Saturday and Sunday, I'm here both Saturday and Sunday night.
And if your radio station is not carrying both of these nights, then you're missing out.
And what you need to do Monday is pick up the telephone, call your radio station, say, what's up?
Coast is on Saturdays and Sundays.
We want it all.
And don't forget, Ghost to Ghost.
Coming up this next Friday night, I'll be here for that event.
And toward that end, I would like those of you who are willing and who have really good ghost stories, very best, the cream odi crop.
You know, the scary ones.
Give me a little synopsis, just a paragraph or two, if you would, please.
And include your telephone number.
And then be available come the 31st when the show hits the air.
And maybe we'll call you.
How about that?
So we'll mix that in with our regular audience.
You would send such a little missive to me, artbell at mindspring.com.
That's my email address.
Artbell in lowercase A-R-T-B-E-L-L at mindspring.com.
Once again, Art Bell A-R-T B-E-L-L at mindspring.com.
Don't miss it coming up this Halloween.
dr botkin back with your calls in a moment Thank you.
Just before the telephones, let me ask this.
Dr. Botkin, is there any indication in all of these ADCs you've taken people through of the conditions or what the other side is like or anything beyond the interpersonal communication that takes place between your patients and those who have passed?
Anything to indicate what the other side is like, what the living conditions are like?
I know it seems like a silly question, but everybody wants to know.
And people who expect for whatever reasons that they're going to see the deceased holding a harp and sitting on a cloud up in the sky, they don't get that.
And they're surprised.
Many of my patients with certain traditional beliefs are surprised by the earthly environment.
And if all living things emit this information into this dimension, you know, it's not surprising that it would be very earthly.
I never really even believed in paranormal or ghosts or any of that.
Everything I now believe in and now have learned has come directly from your show and the guests that you've had on.
Wow, I am a believer.
This did happen to me.
Quickly, I'll share.
Eight months ago, I was driving down the highway, beautiful Friday night in a convertible on my way out, and I saw a bunch of kids down off the side of the road by a car and thought, hey, no big deal.
I'll pull off the side of the highway here.
I was on a main route highway.
Walk down to the car, find out if they needed help.
It looked like, you know, they were off the road.
I'm going to help them push the car back on the road so they don't get busted by the police.
I get down to the car and I see the looks on everyone's face and it's just absolute panic and frustration and I can't understand what's wrong.
I can't understand what's wrong.
Finally, I look down and I see later I find out to be a 13-year-old girl laying underneath the front tire.
I showed up maybe two minutes after this happened, but they were cut off.
The car did several flips, landed on its wheels.
This little 13-year-old girl weighed maybe 100 pounds, ended up, I guess, getting thrown from the car and ended up underneath the left front tire.
The amount of helplessness that was there, it was me and probably three or four teenage kids.
I had no idea what to do.
So I kind of rallied everyone and I got them all to pick up the car.
We all got on the one left side of the car.
It was a Grand Dam, something similar to a Grand Dam.
We were able to pick up the entire car from the side all along the driver's side, picked it up, and then proceeded to push it all the way over.
So it's laying upside down now on the side of the road.
I went down to the girl, and kind of like what you said with that marine, half of her vase wasn't even there.
On the one hand, the experience itself is virtually never bad, you said, but misguided, the procedure could take a person into a very apparently bad place.
Well, not a bad, it wouldn't be a bad ADC, I believe, but it would take you to a place of maybe like past childhood trauma or something that you never resolved and just kind of put away.
It wouldn't be a bad ADC, but it could lead to a bad experience in other ways.
And it would, you know, my first, as a psychologist.
Well, when you sit down and give yourself self-eye movement, what might happen, instead of having an ADC with your friend, you might end up pulling up some old trauma and get stuck in a really bad place.
Yes, but if they do have other things, other major psychological events in their life, I need to know that, and sometimes I have to address those first.
Even professional people who induce ADCs on themselves end up doing a much poorer job with themselves than they do with their own clients.
And because you get so emotionally caught up in the experience, it's really kind of hard to guide yourself properly.
As a matter of fact, I'll even take it one step farther.
Some of these mediums who were very successful, or at least most popular, Von Prague, George Anderson, Jonathan Edwards, you know, this is just a guess, but they may be doing a form of EMDR.
If you ever notice Jonathan Edwards' work, there's times that he seems to look away and move his eyes.
Both von Prague and Anderson do this kind of scribbling on a pad in front of them with a pen.
It's kind of a back and forth, side-to-side motion they go through.
And if you ask them, why do you do that, they're not sure.
It just seems to help.
It may be that these mediums are indeed using a form of EMDR to do what they do.
They're providing themselves with this kind of bilateral stimulation while they're having the experience.
When I had the opportunity to talk to Dr. Gary Schwartz, of course, he knows and worked with a lot of these folks, and I was able to compare notes kind of through Gary.
And yes, we are taking phone calls for Dr. Botkin.
If you have questions, and I bet you do.
From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified
Find out more about tonight's guest.
Log on to coast2coastam.com.
Never reaching the end.
Let's go with never meeting the end.
Beauty at all.
We described the choosing.
I can't stand it anymore.
Cause I love the tone.
Inside of a touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak root deep in the ground, the wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up from tarmac to the sun again, Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing, to lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing, to have all these things in our memory's heart, and to use them to come to fight.
Yeah!
Fight, fight that she's old, take this place, on that strip, you're for me.
Fight, take a big wall, and take my wish, I'm gonna sing, it's for free.
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There's a very interesting offer going on right now, and that is when you subscribe to After Dark, you know, the newsletter about this program that goes in depth about stories and guests we have and all the rest of it.
Right now, one of the greatest men who ever walked this earth was Father Malachi Martin.
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Now, sometimes ADCs that occur spontaneously are not complete.
In other words, not all issues are resolved with sometimes a brief spontaneous ADC.
And with the eye movement, though, you can continue through that process until all issues get resolved.
But it also sounds like when he brought up that image, it sounded like that image was still bothering him a lot.
Now, I would strongly suggest that he go to EMDR.com and go to an EMDR therapist that would help him reduce the intensity of that awful image that he has to live with.
Number one.
So number two is my website.
I and Dr. Craig Hogan have a website on IADC, Induced After Death Communications, and that's www.induced-adc.com.
So if you have any interest in connecting with a therapist for that procedure, go to that website and you'll get information.
The problem, I'm also in the process of training as many other mental health professionals as I can to get this technique out to more people.
But as of right now, the only trained IADC therapists with experience are all in the Chicago area.
And I hope I can change that and get it out to the East Coast and the West Coast and so on.
I've trained some other people in other parts of the country, but they're kind of new at it.
And hopefully with continued support from me, they can get a little more confidence with it.
Let's continue on the phones here and see what we get.
Wild Carline, you're on the air with Dr. Bachen.
Hello.
unidentified
Hello, thank you.
I'll be brief.
We're running out of time.
Great show, Art.
I have been studied from a very early age because I happen to have been gifted with all of the clairvoyant, telepathic, psychokinesis, you name it, gifts.
But I've also had an extremely traumatic life.
And in fact, without my name in the records, I've been documented.
I was severely sexually abused and tortured for double-digit years, which I've survived.
And I will tell you just a few things.
It can be physically proven visa values.
there are things that happen.
I mean, the trance state you mentioned, whereby they put me on a treadmill, and immediately I left my body.
I mean, I find it hard to stay in my body, but I left my body.
My heart rate stopped.
Everything stopped.
It was like I was dead, but I wasn't dead.
And Art, I remember calling you ages ago and talking about how I would put my hands under the caps that were supposed to feel that there was a human hand underneath it, and then they would turn on, but they wouldn't turn on.
I could stand in front of electric doors.
They wouldn't turn on if I wasn't in my body.
And I just also wanted to say that there's some fantastic work coming out of Britain.
I don't know if you know about the late Sir Oliver Lodge and the work that's carrying on there using basically the concept that radio waves and television, well, the radio waves and the speed of light are similar, and that using a medium, the two, the sort of technological world can meet the spiritual world.
Well, that's a good takeoff point right there, Doctor, that the technological world can meet the spiritual world.
Now, it seems to me that with what you're doing with ADCs, you have the opportunity to create that meeting.
In other words, get in a lab, begin to find out what is actually occurring in the brain at the moment that people begin to experience these things, and I don't know, take some measurements, find out if there's any electromagnetic field increase around people, whether there's these are the things that you've got to do.
Because when we get to that magic point where these two meet, then we get the resources of science really bearing down on finding what Okay, East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Botkin.
Hello.
unidentified
Yes, Dr. Botkin, this is Michael in Norfolk, Virginia.
Let me just take off on what Art just said, technology meeting the paranormal world.
My next-door neighbor, figuratively speaking, over in Virginia Beach, is a religious broadcaster who was taking in contributions in the late 80s at about $230 million a year.
And when he decided to run for president and to build a political organization, he proved that he could change the face of America as he predicted in the late 70s, that he could control both houses of Congress and the White House, which he has done.
Now, to take Art's position, a few months ago he had on John Hutchinson, and he seconded the idea that a fund should be created to help people like you do research.
Why do we not have the kind of seriousness and conviction amongst the executives of the Coast to Coast AM program and premier radio networks to change the world of science that we see in my very controversial next-door neighbor here in Virginia Beach?
In the procedure in inducing an ADC, I use the eye movement to kind of clear away things like the sadness and intrusive negative images and that kind of thing.
But then I go for that state of receptivity, and I use this high-powered EMDR to help induce that state of receptivity.
Now, if that's an altered state, I don't know.
I guess I never looked at it as an altered state or trance state or anything like that.
The kind of state they're in is a state where they just are not trying to do anything.
There's no intention.
They're just sitting there and going with whatever happens.
The deceased are always experienced as profoundly peaceful and happy.
And in the ADC experience, the survivor, my patient, they most often say that they somehow felt that peacefulness of the deceased person, like it was somehow transmitted to them.