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Sept. 4, 2003 - Art Bell

02:49:34

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Roots of Terror - Craig Winn

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01:03:09

craig winn

01:09:33

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure a lot of you have seen the pictures of Las Vegas being undated.
		We are 65 miles to the west of Las Vegas and let me tell you, this summer has been a weather terror in the American southwest.
		Well, actually all over the world.
		Not just the country, but the world.
		My little corner of it here in the southwest part of the country, though.
		Oh my gosh, the storms we've had.
unidentified		You wouldn't believe the storms we've had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Every single day, thunderstorms rolling in.
		Now, you've got to remember that I have this arrangement of radio towers here at the house.
		I have, you know, a hundred-foot radio tower with an antenna topping out around 110.
		Then I have six more two-inch steel towers that go up 75 feet each.
		I mean, I'm like Ben Franklin holding onto a kite.
		Last night, a storm, you know, late storm, really a bad one too, came rolling in from the southwest.
		I was on the air on ham radio at the time, and you know, the static begins to get louder and louder and louder.
		Anyway, here comes this monster of a storm with lightning bolts everywhere.
		And with all of this, it's like I'm saying, here lightning, hear lightning.
		And it got so bad last night that I was standing in the living room with a fire extinguisher in my arms for a little while.
		I'm going, hon, we're going to get hit.
		There's no way it can miss it.
		We're going to get hit.
		It just can't miss us.
		Well, thankfully, we did not get hit.
		But I really thought we were going to, so I thought it was the end of the world for a while.
		It really has been pretty bad, flash flooding and a lot of real serious weather.
		But radio, of course, continues to be the central focus of my little retired life, KNYE Radio, the FM radio station we own here that we dearly love.
		I tell you, it's great for a radio guy like me because if you have your own radio station, then all the stuff, you know, that you had to put up with earlier in your career from 5 million program directors and managers who always thought they knew exactly what was the right thing to do and you knew it was wrong, you get to do it.
		When you own the place, you get to do it.
		So we're having a lot of fun with that.
		And Ramona and myself have sort of split the workload.
		And we both take care of specific areas.
		She's very good at what she does.
		Very, very good.
		So, you know, then ham radio takes up my life, of course, and radio really in any form at all.
		Life in general here in the desert seems to be mysterious and reassuring.
		And by the way, the Matt Drudge-inspired rumor that I am going to come out of retirement and do a show exclusively on XM Radio is in its specific details totally wrong, but mysterious and reassuring at the same time.
		Now my back, that which took me out of radio, is better.
		Now why is my back better?
		Well, aside from the fact that I exercise, take my little back pills, and I've lost 50 pounds.
		Since I left you in retirement January 1st, 2003, I have lost 50 pounds.
		And so my back, no longer needing to carry around my swollen belly, is happier.
		And if my belly is happier, my back is happier, and I'm happier.
		So that's a whole lot better.
		That situation is, well, at the moment, I'm beating the surgeons, right?
		So I'm really cool for that.
		And in most other ways, I really find the world to be really very much in the same condition as the last time we met, whenever it was I last did the program.
		And in fact, the last day I retired from the program.
		The world really just hasn't changed that much, has it?
		I still, for example, have not the slightest clue about why we went to war.
		I don't know.
		I still don't know why we went to war.
		It seems to me that before you risk the lives of American men and women, you have a specific reason why you go to war.
		And I didn't see the reason then, which was a very unpopular statement at the time, and I don't see it now.
		When perhaps it's more of a popular statement, according to the polls, I guess, the American people getting bone tired of seeing their young people die there.
		Our climate continues its profound change, profound change, while we continue to argue about whose fault it all is instead of adapting and changing to meet the inevitable.
		Many of us continue to ignore that which we cannot explain.
		That's always been the case, hasn't it?
		The world is really full of great mystery, huh?
		Which explains, in my opinion, the success of programs of this genre.
		Looking at the world And what the headlines are tonight, it will be relevant to what we will do in the next hour with Craig Wynn.
		The headline is: U.S. faces tough sell in the U.N. U.S. calls for help, gets chilly reply.
		France and Germany refused Thursday to support a U.S. draft resolution that would spread the burden of running post-war Iraq.
		American officials want to speed up training for Iraqi security forces, including former members of Saddam's military and intelligence services.
		Oh, yeah, good.
		Put them back in service.
		Defense Secretary Rumsfeld said Thursday, making Iraq safe is a job for Iraqis.
		And no more U.S. troops are needed in the country.
		Meanwhile, France is, oh, it's France that they should ever send any troops.
		England is trying to decide whether they need to send more troops to Iraq right now.
		Translation for all of this, the administration is getting bone tired of seeing the headlines every day of more Americans, more GIs killed in Iraq.
		And of course, as they are, the president's approval rating plummets with that.
		So we'll talk, obviously, more about that in the next hour.
	And oh, by the way, tomorrow night, open lines.
	Anything you want to talk about tomorrow night is fair game.
	For a second time this year, a federal judge has thrown out a class action lawsuit that blames McDonald's for making people fat.
	So to me, the question is not why this was tossed out of court, but why it ever got it in the first place.
	Now, why in the world would anybody sue McDonald's for making them fat?
	I mean, it's not like McDonald's pushed burgers down their little throats, is it?
	Hand of mouth, hand to mouth, hand to mouth.
	That's incredible.
	But it is an indication of the kind of world we live in today.
	People would even try that.
	Virus found in wild animals captured and sold for food in China is they're now finding genetically very similar to a virus that infects humans with SARS, suggesting the disease jumped from animals to humans and might do it again, they say.
	There's going to be a lot more of that, in my opinion, in coming times.
	It's going to be a lot more of viruses jumping from the animal kingdom to the human kingdom.
	I think you can look for a whole lot more of that.
unidentified		We will be back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, tomorrow night, once again, Open Lines.
		And before I forget, if you have any specific suggestions you would like to make for Open Lines, we're going to have a lot of fun.
		It's Friday night, Saturday morning, and that's time when you can have an awful lot of fun, do damn near anything.
		So if you have an idea for Open Lines, something you would think would be an awful lot of fun, then email me.
		My email addresses remain the same, artbell at mindspring.com.
		That's A-R-T-B-E-L-L-L lowercase at mindspring.com or artbell at A-O-L.com.
		And I'll rummage through and see if I can find something.
unidentified		They'll light you on fire tomorrow night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, back to what I mentioned about the profoundly changing weather, a couple of items here.
		One, after I was on last time, in an astonishing announcement on global warming and extreme weather, the World's Meteorological Organization signaled that the world's weather is going haywire.
		In a startling report, the WMO, which normally produces detailed scientific reports and staid statistics at the year's end, highlighted record extremes in weather and climate occurring all over the world in recent weeks, from Switzerland's hottest ever June to a record month for tornadoes in the U.S. Don't forget all the deaths in France.
		Link them to climate change.
		The unprecedented warning takes its force and significance from the fact that it is not coming from Greenpeace nor Friends Earth, but from an impeccably respected UN organization that is not given to hyperbole.
		Environmentalists will, of course, seize on it, claim the direst warnings of climate change are being borne out.
		Now, the Geneva-based body to which the weather services of 185 countries contribute takes the view that events this year in Europe, America, and Asia are so remarkable that the world needs to be made aware of it immediately.
		The extreme weather it documents, such as record high and low temperatures, record rainfall, record storms in different parts of the world, is consistent with predictions of global warming.
		Supercomputer models show that as the atmosphere warms, the climate not only becomes hotter, but much more unstable.
		Recent scientific assessments indicate that as the global temperatures continue to warm due to climate change, the number and intensity of extreme events will increase.
		And then I noted, I think it was about a month ago, I started getting these emails indicating that the Atlantic Ocean, certain parts of the Atlantic Ocean, had suddenly become cold, very cold.
		And that's a deep concern, without question.
		For example, here, David Quinlan, who's a surfer from Maryland's eastern shore, knows what cold seawater feels like.
		It makes exposed flesh feel like it's burning, sets hands and feet to tingling, numbs the body, and after repeated dunkings, produces painful ice cream headaches, right?
unidentified		That's cold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The 38-year-old architect expects all of that when he surfs the frigid waters off Ocean City in January, but he does not expect it in the middle of summer.
		But that's just what he encountered when he paddled his board into the surf about two weeks ago.
		I've never experienced anything like it in my whole life, he recounted, where the water right along the shore could be that radically cold.
		Now, he is not alone in His observations, surfers, lifeguards, anglers, and others who regularly dip a toe into the Atlantic have noticed this summer that water, which is typically bathwater warm, has occasionally become suddenly feeward cold.
		During most of the month of July, our water temperatures were, I would say, right around normal, according to Captain Butch Arbin, head of the Ocean City Beach Patrol.
		That's in the low 70s, but about two weeks ago, he said there was a tremendous change in temperature, dropping as much as 10 degrees overnight.
		And I was wondering how the temperature of the ocean would drop 10 degrees overnight.
		But I have a feeling it's part of the global climate change, and it's part of, well, I'm not altogether sure what it is.
		Some people blame it on the sun, some global warming, some the hand of man, some natural cycles.
		But to me, it really doesn't matter what it is, but we must recognize that, in fact, it is happening and begin doing something about it pretty soon.
		Or surprise, surprise, areas in the U.S. where we used to be able to grow stuff.
		We won't be able to grow stuff anymore.
		Maybe they will in Canada, but we won't.
		Now you've got to make changes.
		You've got to adapt to the changing climate.
		Or else.
		Or this from BBC.
		Headline, Earth hits 2,000-year warming peak.
		The Earth would appear to have been warmer since 1980 than at any time in the last 18 centuries, according to scientists.
		They reconstructed the global climate data derived from ice cores.
		You know, they can dig down and look.
		It's like tree rings, right?
		Vegetation and other records.
		They believe their research provides unequivocal confirmation that humans are affecting the climate.
		Well, you know, I don't know if it's humans, but it's something, and it is changing.
		Or how about this?
		Here's a nice one.
		The Alps are collapsing.
		The Alps!
		Scientists think that global warming will melt the Alps over the next 20 years.
		The Alps, causing the mountains to collapse into piles of rubble.
		Now, that's pretty incredible.
		you've seen pictures of the alps right that towering mountains of rock that look like this most solid thing on the The mountain range is made up of rocks with an icy crust of permafrost holding them together.
unidentified		Ah, the key.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see, the ice is melting quickly.
		And the rocks, which have been held together previously by all of this ice, this permafrost, are going to all fall down.
		It already makes climbing dangerous.
		In fact, recently, one avalanche killed 50 people.
		That was about four years ago, actually.
		But I mean, try and imagine the Alps just collapsing.
		And this is worth a thought or two.
		Three years ago, the BBC ran a story about supervolcanoes in Yellowstone.
		Now, only a few of these exist, hidden deep beneath the Earth's surface.
		If one should erupt, though, the explosion is going to be heard around the world.
		It will create dark skies with the effect of a nuclear winter.
		A past eruption, in fact, may be the reason the North American continent was relatively empty when the Europeans arrived.
		They looked around.
		They said, where is everybody?
		Most volcanoes are formed by a column of molten rock or magma rising from deep within the Earth that erupts on the surface.
		But supervolcanoes are created when magma rises from inside the Earth and creates a boiling reservoir in the Earth's crust that can become enormous when it finally builds up enough pressure it erupts.
		But because it doesn't come from the traditional cone shape, no one knows until it's too late.
		In other words, the only thing you notice is a bulge.
		You know, it's not the traditional volcano.
unidentified		It's just a bulge like they have at Yellowstone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The last supervolcano erupted 74,000 years ago in Sumatra and damn near destroyed all life on Earth.
		Scientists don't know whether another one is going to blow or when.
		They do know, though, that one of the largest in the world is under Yellowstone Park.
		It's been on a regular eruption cycle of 600,000 years.
		And you might wonder when was the last time it popped its cork?
		Well, that would be about 640,000 years ago.
		So in other words, we are now long overdue for another big blow.
		So that's kind of a roundup of what's going on during the second half hour here.
		And before our guest at the top of the hour, I'll take calls on any subject, anything that tickles your fancy, questions you wish to ask, or things you wish to bring up.
		After all, an awful lot has happened since we last spoke, hasn't it?
		In one way, it has.
		i mean a lot of details has have occurred but uh...
		the world has not really changed a quick uh...
		Actually, they sent me a couple of things.
		The old ever-present question of why did the chicken cross the road?
		Right?
		If we were to take replies from different luminaries, they might sound something like this.
		George W. Bush.
		We don't really care why the chicken crossed the road.
		We just want to know if the chicken is on our side of the road or not.
		The chicken is either with us or it is against us.
		There is no middle ground here, and we don't like French chickens.
		Colin Powell.
		After the war.
		Colin Powell.
		Now at the left of the screen, you can clearly see the satellite image of the chicken crossing the road.
		Or Ralph Nader.
		The chicken's habitat on the original side of the road had been polluted by unchecked industrialist greed.
		The chicken did not reach the unpolluted habitat on the other side of the road because it was crushed by the wheels of a gas-guzzling SUV.
		Or a Rush Limbaugh.
		Good old Rush.
		I don't know why the chicken crossed the road, but I'll bet it was getting a government grant to cross the road.
		And I'll bet someone out there is already forming a support group to help chickens with crossing the road syndrome.
		Can you believe it?
		How much more of this can real Americans take?
		Chickens crossing the road paid for by their tax dollars.
		And when I say tax dollars, I'm talking about your money.
		money the government took from you to build roads for chickens to cross and then perfect uh...
		Jerry Falwell, because the chicken was gay.
		Isn't it obvious?
unidentified		Can't you people see the plain truth in front of your face?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The chicken was going to the other side.
		That's what they call it.
		The other side.
		Yes, my friends.
		That chicken is gay.
unidentified		And if you eat that chicken, you'll become gay, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I say we boycott all chickens until we sort out this abomination that the liberal media whitewashes with seemingly harmless phrases like the other side.
		One more.
		Albert Einstein.
		Did the chicken really cross the road?
unidentified		Or did the road move beneath the chicken?
		The
		End Thank you.
		Abumba Abumba Abumba Abumba In the last of the night Abumba Can you hear my heartbeat in this garden?
		Do you know that behind all this gone?
		Life with the desire and the lab.
		Make the money for ya and my la.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
		And now, filling in for George, here's special guest host, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed, so.
		How are you all doing?
		It's great to be here.
		listen one more item before we jump into the telephones and that we've got a first I really ought to play the one here that gives you the phone numbers, shouldn't I?
		Our first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		And then we have a wildcard line, too, and I can't remember the damn number.
		So here you go.
unidentified		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
		Filling in for George, tonight's special guest host is Art Bell.
		To talk with Art, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		East of the Rockies, call 800-825-5033.
		And west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach ART by calling the AT ⁇ T International Operator and dialing toll-free, 800-893-0903.
		Now for George Norrie, special guest host, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's better.
		Now you know the numbers.
		Space agency says asteroid might start to strike Earth in 2014.
		United Kingdom government agency responsible for identifying potentially hazardous asteroids is warned of a possible collision coming March 12, 2014.
		What you're going to be doing that day, folks.
		The Near Earth Object Center says that an asteroid measuring 1.2 kilometers, that's three quarters of a mile across, is approaching at about 20 miles a second.
		It's coming our way.
		It is one-tenth the size of the asteroid thought by some to have wiped out the dinosaurs 65 million years ago.
		Now, is there a big chance?
		Well, they're classifying this right now with a rating of one on the Torino scale.
		That's very bad.
		But the actual odds are 909,000 to 1 that it will squish us.
		So, there you have it.
		But that's one we're going to keep our eyes on.
		This is a young lady named Matisse.
		English, French, and African.
		Let us go to the phones and see what's out there on this night.
		Not to forget, tomorrow night is open lines.
		Anything you want to talk about is fair game.
		And I'm always willing to entertain suggestions for a specific line of some sort, which, as you know, I love doing.
		In the meantime, shall we rock?
		Hi there, Western Rockies.
		You're on the air.
		Good evening.
		Morning.
		Whatever.
unidentified		Good evening, Stephen Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Steve.
unidentified		I'd like to talk about the East Coast blackout and the Phoenix pipeline break and tie it all together with one word into a conspiracy theory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you feel you can tie the break in the gas line in Phoenix to the outage in on the East Coast.
		Okay, yeah, that'd be interesting.
		Go ahead, let's hear it.
unidentified		Okay, um, Dr. Skye was down here in Phoenix talking on the radio, and he pointed out that not only did the East Coast black out, and Canada blacked out, but simultaneously along the 45th northern latitude line, Spain blacked out, France blacked out, and the nation of Georgia also blacked out simultaneously.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now how do you tie that to the...
		Well, we have been having an unprecedented attack from the sun.
		I mean, there's no question, a lot of G4-type storms, and those threaten power lines, and nobody's even mentioning that.
		So that's been going on.
unidentified		Right, and Dr. Skye had it up on his website for five days prior to the blackout to look for the blackout and to prepare for a cascade event so it would not shut down the East Coast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe we ought to talk to Dr. Skye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, now how do you tie this into Phoenix?
unidentified		In Phoenix, we had a pipeline running from Tucson into Phoenix that provided 30% of our fuel.
		100,000 barrels of fuel a day are used in the Phoenix area.
		It only provided 30% of that fuel.
		When the pipeline broke, they immediately got the truck lines moving and bringing in the fuel through alternate sources.
		And according to the local news reports, they were bringing in 180,000 barrels of fuel a day to get the price of gas jumped to $4 a gallon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
		Well, they raise it, you know, if the sun comes up at an odd angle, they raise the price on gas.
		But what does that have to do with the East Coast?
unidentified		Well, the first thing that happened was the administration, the Secretary for Fossil Fuels, stepped up on the radio and says that this is going to affect the AC and electrical power grids across the country because of all of the energy produced by fossil fuels.
unidentified		And we're sitting right here on top of Palo Verde nuclear power plant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know how that goes to Con Ed, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that's not their energy source.
unidentified		Right.
		But this is a local Phoenix problem.
		It's a broken pipeline.
		But anyway, the only solution he had for this was to declare that gasoline should be brought in under the utilities, that it should be made a utility.
		And the whole thing ties in together if you simply mention Halliburton to come in and handle rebuilding the entire infrastructure of the utility grid for hundreds and hundreds of trillions of dollars of kickbacks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I don't know that I can make that case or that anybody can.
		I appreciate your attempt, but I don't see the connection, frankly, at all.
		However, that is not to say that I don't see conspiracies in the energy field because I do.
		They will raise the price of gasoline just for any cause at all, sometimes no cause whatsoever.
		They'll just raise the price of gas.
		If a holiday is coming, it's automatic.
		They raise the price of gas.
		If they get up in the morning on the wrong side of the bed, they raise the price of gas.
		And we are at their mercy.
		Everybody always talks about, let's boycott them.
		How are you going to do that?
		You've got to get to work, right?
		You might cut out a little excess driving in order to put a little pressure on, but that's all it's going to be, is a little bit of pressure.
		Bottom line, you still have to get work, right?
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Cheerio.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi.
		I was going to talk to you about the plane that went down in Pennsylvania after the 9-11 attacks or during the 9-11 attacks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The plane that went down there, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The one where the passengers took it down, right?
unidentified		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		You had, I remember before you retired, you had talked about how the plane had two debris fields and it wasn't talked about much in the media?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I went to a training class.
		I work in law enforcement, and a specialist came in that works out of the D.C. area, and he said the reason that happened, there were two debris fields, was because of wind shear.
		The tail section of the plane broke off because of the angle of descent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could be.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Well, that was from somebody that did an investigation on it, so I just wanted to pass that on to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I appreciate that.
		Thank you very much.
		I thought the real story there, no matter how many debris fields there were, was that American citizens who are frequently maligned as not caring, American citizens who are frequently maligned as unpatriotic and uncaring and not willing to get involved, you know, allowing somebody to be raped without dialing 911.
		In this case, when they knew they were dead, and they did know they were dead, they made a group decision to take that airplane into the ground instead of allowing it to go and probably plow into the White House or wherever it was headed.
		So I thought that said a lot, a whole lot, about Americans, any specific group of Americans, the Americans on that particular flight.
		It was an incredibly heroic act.
		Wild Carline, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Hi, Art.
		Hello.
unidentified		Oh, it's good to talk to you again.
		This is Ken.
		Tell your wife I said hi, the guy you met at the gas station and searchlight.
		That's correct.
		And I stopped in searchlight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think I may have been peeling the various high-velocity insect casualties off my windshield at the time.
unidentified		Yeah, that's correct.
		That was me.
		You could be a long-haul trucker, man.
		You did good that night.
		Luckily, I beat you to the rest area and took your parking spot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know how you guys, I really don't know how you guys, you truckers, can do it.
		I don't have the slightest idea.
		I mean, I went through blizzards oh, bugs.
		I had more bugs on the front of my RV.
		It was so bad you hardly see the front of the thing.
		And how do you handle that out on the road?
unidentified		We've got to just stop as often as we can and just knock them off.
		That's all.
		I carry that bug juice inside my water reservoir, and it does a great job on it, knocking them off.
		It gets pretty thick around that time of the year.
		In America, you can tell when you see Art Vell on the road.
		Believe me, you can tell when you see his RV.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true, he recognized me as I was.
unidentified		I'm not going to give it away.
		I swear, that's how I knew it was you for sure.
		I say, who would have an RV like this?
		No one else but Art Vell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it does have an unusual top to it, doesn't it?
		It really does.
		People stop me, you know, and people, in fact, have almost crashed into me trying to figure out what it is I've got on my roof.
		Of course, it's a gigantic antenna, but we've had almost several crashes.
		All right, sir.
		Thank you very, very much for the call and reminding me.
		I met that gentleman at a station where I was debugging the front of the vehicle.
		Oh, man, I'm telling you.
		Blizzards of bugs.
		Little tiny black bugs.
		Great, big, juicy orange bugs.
		They came in every color.
		And if you don't get them off right away, then they harden onto your windshield and onto the front of your RV to the point where you'll never get them off, or it will take you at the very least hours to get them off.
		It is the worst part of long-haul driving, in my opinion.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey.
unidentified		I was interested in the scientist, genius named Tesla, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nicola Tesla, yes.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Now, I heard something about him actually making wireless electricity that would go from antennas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, those are the claims that he made.
		That he would be able to pluck energy virtually out of the air with antennas, yes.
		And that it could be transferred that way.
		That we don't need wires and poles and all that stuff to get electricity from A to B to C, that we can just send it through the air, yes.
unidentified		And another question about Tesla.
		I heard that he was working on an experiment way over on the other side of the earth.
		And, like, I don't know the exact story, but somehow, like, there was an explosion in Siberia in 1912, I think it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tunguska, yes.
unidentified		Yeah, so do you think he had anything to do with that, with his experiment that he was working on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, thank you.
		Not to the best of my knowledge.
		No, Tunguska was a big old rock coming in.
		Something like that.
		But Nicola Tesla, of course, is a fascinating individual.
		And I didn't really give you any updates on my antenna.
		I have this monstrous antenna out there.
		And since we last spoke, I decided, well, the ground out here wasn't very good.
		You know, we live in the desert, and gosh, in the desert, we have what we call pooster, and it's not a very good ground.
		And so I went out and purchased 1,000 feet of this four-foot-wide mesh, you know, wire, welded wire mesh.
		And then I put this wire all the way around 1,000 feet of the antenna, and I connected it to my water well, which goes down 160 feet into the water.
		I connected it to about 15 ground rods, to my tower ground, to my radio station ground here, and everything.
		And so I've got this monstrous man-made grounding system underneath my antenna right now.
		And yesterday after the storm, the afternoon storm yesterday had cleared away, I went out to do some work on my antenna, and I took a moment to, in doing so, I had to disconnect it from the special grounding arrangement I've put in there to, you know, to stop all this electricity that I don't want in here that mysteriously appears on my antenna.
		Well, of course, in the process of doing that, I miscalculated, as usual, and got the wire between myself and ground, and I took one hell of a jolt.
		Oh, my gracious, did I take a jolt?
		Now, we had what I would call debris clouds overhead at the time.
		It wasn't an active storm or even anything electrical, just debris clouds, but that's all it took.
		And there was enough voltage on that antenna so that after I got myself up off the ground after getting knocked on my keister, I held one side of the antenna near ground, and I got a good half-inch blue spark jumping to ground.
		And so, you know, Mr. Tesla may have been absolutely correct.
		There is an awful lot of something coming from somewhere.
		And as you know, when Nicola Tesla died, they rushed right in and took all his stuff and took it away.
		And they have sequestered it and done who knows what with it.
		But, yeah, he thought he could pluck energy right from the air.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Damn in Spokane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Welcome.
unidentified		Pardon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I said welcome.
unidentified		Oh, update on the chemtrail in Spokane, Washington about three weeks ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Update on what?
		Turn your radio off.
		That's going to confuse you.
unidentified		Oh, yes.
unidentified		That's the Cardinal City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Cardinal City.
unidentified		Yes, three weeks ago in Spokane, Washington, there was 2021 heavy, light-curling trails about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you said chem trails.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that what you're saying?
unidentified		That's what it seemed to be.
		There were oily, slick, little donut circles way up in the sky and very untraceable.
		Now, I know previously I haven't heard anything updated, but someone was going to go up and take a sample of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's true, and I don't know what the current state of all that is, but I will say this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I don't think anybody anymore questions a profound change occurring in our weather, right?
unidentified		Not one way or the other, necessarily, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, but there is a change occurring.
		I mean, worldwide, there's an obvious change.
		Now, maybe somebody in Washington, thick as they tend to be, has recognized the fact that something is changing, and maybe they're trying to do something about it.
		Now, see, that's an optimistic look at what chemtrails are.
		Well, yeah, something like that.
		Or the government trying to protect us or something or another.
		But it's either that or they're testing something.
		Or, I mean, what do you think it might be?
unidentified		Well, a lot of people have stuff as like a flu-like symptom.
		However, they don't really feel that bad.
		It just comes and goes.
		After two or three days after this occurs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you don't think our own government would do spray something that would make us sick intentionally, do you?
unidentified		I'm not saying any on that.
unidentified		But it is interesting how it's coincidence or what have you there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's quite interesting.
		All right.
		Well, thank you very much for the call.
		I don't know what chemdrails are.
		They contain, when analyzed, some very interesting materials, most specifically aluminum.
		I think it was aluminum, right?
		Yes.
		And what would they why would they be spraying something with aluminum in it, if in fact they are doing it?
		So I'm not caught up on the chemtrail story, but I have no uh no further idea of what they are now than uh I did when I did the programs on the subject.
		Uh, East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Curio.
		Hello there.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm I'm okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
unidentified		Curio.
unidentified		I'm great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio.
unidentified		I just did.
		I headed up and I want to tell you, I'm an invalid.
		I've been in a wheelchair for 10 years.
		I used to work at the building mine in Death Valley.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You did?
unidentified		Yes, right above Furnace Creek.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		Death Valley is probably the closest actual place to where I am, other than being in Perum Devada.
		Death Valley is closest.
unidentified		Indubitably, we had to go, the only place to shop was Vegas, and we had to, if anybody had any brains, we had to drive through Prump.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, you see, now all of that has changed.
		Were you to come back to this area now, you would notice an incredible change in this little town that was nothing more than a little dust spot originally.
		Prump now boasts our own Walmart!
		We have a Walmart here in Prump.
		We have really grown up.
		Trump is blossoming and going absolutely berserk.
		And so now, one who previously would have to go to Las Vegas for his shopping from Death Valley.
		I don't know how anybody could ever live in that place.
		Do you know what the temperatures are like in Death Valley?
		Typically, on a typical summer day.
		Temperatures are always 126 degrees, 130 degrees in Death Valley.
		Lost to the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I wanted to just tell about a meteorite I saw tonight on the way home from work, or something that looked like a meteorite.
unidentified		825 this evening in Sacramento, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, was there any reason to believe it was other than a meteorite?
unidentified		No.
unidentified		I just didn't know what it was for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then it was a meteorite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When they come down, you're supposed to wish upon them.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A falling star, right?
unidentified		Yeah, but it was pretty big and it came down real close to the Earth before it burned out.
unidentified		I thought it was going to land before it burned out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe it wasn't a meteorite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe it had pods.
unidentified		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, anyway, make a wish, all right?
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		It's good hearing your voice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, hon. Thank you.
		All right.
		We are going to embark upon a slightly different course tonight with Craig Wynn up next.
		We're going to talk about the war and why we're having it.
unidentified		The mirror quads, the window hides alive, but nothing half the colour of the light.
		Electricity is so fine.
		Look, I'll try your eyes.
		Electricity is so fine.
		Be it sight, sand, smell, or touch, the something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of a touch or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak moves deep in the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing, to lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing, have all these things in our memories hold, and
		the use of the coast to coast and worldwide on the internet.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
		Filling in for George, tonight's special guest host is Art Bell.
		To talk with Art, call the wildcard line at Area Code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		East of the Rockies, call 800-825-5033.
		And west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach ART by calling the AT ⁇ T International Operator and dialing toll-free, 800-893-0903.
		Now for George Norry, special guest host, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		George is taking the evening off well deserved at that.
		Tomorrow night, Tim, we'll do Open Lives.
		Don't forget, if you have a suggestion for Open Lives tomorrow night, feel free to email it to me and I will review it for possible use.
		That'd be Art Bell at MindSpring.com or Art Bell at AOL.com.
		All right, coming up in a moment, we're going to talk about the war.
		Now, as you know, I had very strong feelings about it before we did it.
		Before we got involved.
		I couldn't figure out why we were about to have a war.
		I still can't.
		So tonight we'll talk about that with Craig Wynn.
		This should be very interesting.
		Craig Wynn graduated from the University of Southern California with business degrees in marketing and finance.
		He then built the Wynn Company into one of the nation's leading marketing and sales firms.
		In the 1980s, Craig founded and built Dynasty, a $100 million international lighting company.
		In the 90s, he founded Value America, building it into the world's second largest e-tailer.
		He became one of the era's vapor billionaires in the process.
		I mean to ask him about that.
		Vapor billionaire.
		On the morning of September 11th, Win teamed up with Kevin Power to expose the root cause of terror.
		They personally interviewed members of al-Qaeda, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Qatar, the Marchers Brigade Force 17, the Palestinian Authority, the Israeli Connected IDF, and American generals as well as Israeli Secret Service agents in the Mossad and Kindip.
		In addition to these meetings, Mr. Wynne has invested 4,000 hours studying Islam and has traveled to over 124 countries.
		His book, T with Terrorists, was written to share what he and Mr. Power discovered in their journey.
		So coming up in a moment, Craig Wynn.
		Don't touch that dial.
unidentified		So coming up in a moment, Craig Wynn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to make one thing very clear at the beginning of this program.
		We are going to talk without any question about Islam.
		Now, we're not going to talk about all Islamics.
		We're just not.
		We're going to talk about extreme Islamics.
		And there's a very large difference.
		And for those of you who don't get that difference, I guess you'll just have to complain and bitch and moan.
		But the fact of the matter is, we're going to be talking about people who basically want us dead.
		That's not all of Islam.
		That's a faction, a section, a portion of Islam.
		But indeed, it is a significant one from our point of view, since it is our lives they wish to extinguish.
		So we are going to talk about it, and I'm not going to be deterred from that.
		I understand there are certain sensitivities out there.
		And I'm just going to have to ask you to bear with them because we're talking about a very, very serious thing here.
		We're talking about people who want to kill us.
		That's pretty basic, isn't it?
		And they've already proven that.
		Craig Wynn, I hope, can give us some insight into precisely why they want to kill us and just how much of Islam we're talking about.
		In the meantime, here is Craig Wynn.
		Craig, welcome to the program.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Good evening, boy.
		It's my pleasure to be with you.
		You're the king of late night, and for you to be guest hosting the show that you built, it's really an honor to have you back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is an honor to be here, actually.
		Thank you.
		I'm probably going to twist all of your questions out of the proper order here.
		The first thing I'm really quite curious about is a tea with terrorists.
		Why did you decide...
		You were a billionaire for a little while?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		I was indeed.
		Well, that's what my stock certificate said anyway.
		When you found a company, you own 100% of the shares and you gradually give up a percentage as you raise money.
		I raised $300 million for Value American.
		By the time I had finished raising money, I owned about 45% of the company.
		And when we went public, if you multiplied my number of shares times the, I think it was $70 some odd dollars a share, I was worth well over a billion dollars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What does that feel like?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Awful, really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Awful?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		It really does.
		It really feels awful.
		You feel extremely vulnerable and you recognize that it's just not real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people, nevertheless, would like to feel your pain.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		It's not painful in that sort of sense.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		There's a sense of vulnerability that comes with that and an awesome sense of responsibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I assume that when the stock bubble burst, your billion went down to millions or less.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, certainly it fell appreciably.
		And it's really quite a story.
		I ended up co-authoring a book with one of the five founders of Value America, Ken Power, called In the Company of Good and Evil, specifically to talk about that experience from the insider's perspective and to warn Americans as to what's going on in corporate America, particularly in the boardrooms of public companies, because we're on the cusp of losing something very dear.
		And I wanted to share what it was really like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are we on the cusp of losing?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Well, in the business world, Art, you've got really a runaway train.
		You have corporate boards who meet in person maybe twice a year, who know almost nothing about the companies that they're making decisions on behalf of.
		You've got these professional managers who are paid, in some cases, 10 times more than they're worth, principally interested in what they can do in the short term to increase the value of their stock options and really line their own pockets.
		They have no conception of the value of money and waste it.
		You've got this form of accounting, this accrual-based accounting, which we're...
		It's gotten progressively worse.
		And the interrelationship between the accountants, the lawyers, and the investment bankers, corporate boards, and professional managers is incestuous and it is extraordinarily corrupt.
		And as an investor in public companies, you really ought to be very careful because the only source of information, for example, is the analysts from the investment banking firm.
		And almost all of them got their job by getting good grades in school.
		None of them have a clue as to how to manage a business.
		And the accountants that keep score can tell you how many trees are in the forest, but they can't tell you if any of those trees are alive or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, is this a view that you held prior to your vapor billion?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or did this come to you after the slide?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		It is a view that I held prior.
		And in fact, one of the reasons that I'm in a position To do what I'm doing now on this link between Islam and terror that you hinted at earlier in your introduction, is that having been in a position where I was an outspoken person on behalf of what I thought was the corruption within the business world, the business world did not take kindly to that.
		I have been raped publicly, if you will.
		Truth is not a popular thing, particularly among people who have a vested interest in the game of deceit.
		And so I have been an outspoken person on behalf of what's wrong with corporate America.
		And corporate America, particularly the media that supports it, has not taken kindly to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, what do you think is going to happen to America?
		We are certainly in the middle of a great global change.
		The Chinese are rising quickly.
		The Chinese are doing now to the Japanese what the Japanese did to us.
		I mean, looking at the economic picture around the world right now, just before we get on off into this other subject, where do you think we're headed?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		I spoke a lot about that in the company of Good and Evil.
		And what I suggested is that the way that our government has embraced business, actually made business a foe in America, we have created a most unlevel playing field on behalf of foreign producers, particularly China.
		So if you walk down the aisles of a Walmart, the majority of the products will say made in China on the side.
		And so it's a combination of the payment mechanism called the International Letter of Credit and the mentality of our government and the way that no one in politics gets to politics by having been successful in business.
		They're usually lawyers, and therefore almost every decision that they make is counterproductive to the engine of our economy.
		And we will continue, I believe, politically to throw sand in the cart of the productive engine of America until the cart can no longer be pulled.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Meaning that America will cease to become the economic power it has been and perhaps can be said is now.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		That is correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I believe that is the...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How quickly could this occur?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		I believe we're looking at an outside window of two decades.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Two decades.
		That's not very long.
		All right.
		Now, for some reason, you developed an interest in terrorists in Al-Qaeda after 9-11.
		This all occurred after post-9-11 or whatever?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		I was like the average American watching the events of 9-11 unfold in horror.
		The difference was that I had retired from business, so I had some free time, and I was quite well connected in the political sense, so I had the contacts to do something about it.
		And having been on the cover of national magazines and in the news so much, I recognized that apart from talk radio, which is really the last bastion of intelligence, I think, discourse in America, the mainstream media is wrong on almost everything it says.
		So I was convinced that our politicians and the mainstream media would miscommunicate what is really happening and why these terrorists are killing us.
		We wouldn't know who they are, and we would not know why they kill.
		And then we as a nation, I thought, would have a knee-jerk reaction to go after an enemy that we do not understand.
		And I wanted to learn as much as I could to see if I could help prevent that from occurring.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You actually met with Al-Qaeda?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I did.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		At gunpoint.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At gunpoint.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		And unfortunately, I was not the one holding the gun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I very much would like to hear how this occurred.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you arrange this meeting and how did it come to pass?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		The morning of 9-11, the first thing I tried to do is arrange a meeting with George Bush, and I know George Bush.
		And I was unable to pull it off before he had his speech where he stated his position that he was going to go to war against an enemy he didn't understand.
		So I did the next best thing I could do.
		I went to ground zero for suicide bombers worldwide.
		That's all 9-11 was, was a giant suicide bomb.
		That happens to be Israel.
		And there I arranged meetings with the Palestinian Authority ministers, with Knesset ministers, with the Mossad, which is the Israeli CIA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All of that I could understand.
		In other words, that would be, for somebody with a little political clout, that would be possible.
		I don't see how you get to Al-Qaeda.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Ten days of meeting with all of these politicos, I had a singular agenda.
		I wanted to ask the terrorists themselves why they were killing us.
		And after 10 days of meeting with these people, they finally acquiesced to arranging a series of meetings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how is it somebody, for example, from the Knesset, or would it be the Palestinian Authority, more likely?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		But it had to be done in conjunction with the Israeli Mossad knowing about it, or there was no way to arrange the meetings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, usually when the Mossad knows the location of an al-Qaeda operative or even more so a kingpin, they dispatch missiles and blow them up.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		They did not, the way this was arranged, they did not know the location or even the name of the people I was going to meet with.
		They know them now, but they did not know them then.
		What happened was that the Palestinian Authority introduced me to a member of Force 17.
		Force 17 is like our secret service, except they work for Yasser Arafat.
		And the Force 17 member arranged a meeting in a bunker that all the Mossad knew is they were going to take me to the border.
		I had to sign a piece of paper that said that what I was doing was crazy, that I would never see the light of day again, that the Israeli government could do nothing to save me.
		They did not know where they were taking me.
		All they were going to do is take me to the border and give me the passwords for the people I was going to meet with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, were you ostensibly part of the media, or I mean, how were you representing yourself?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		I represented myself as an author who wanted to tell the story about this conflict of international terrorism and to understand the grievance from the perspective of those who were perpetrating the terror.
		So I told them the truth.
		Now, I'm sure they didn't hear it that way.
		They probably heard, well, here's another media guy, and I get a chance to tell my story.
		And Art, it's not difficult, and it's not easy, but it's not impossible to meet with these guys.
		The difficult part is actually surviving the meeting.
unidentified		They continue to kill their people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They do.
		They kidnap people and kill them on a somewhat regular basis.
		So you must have had some few moments of reflection before you did this about the fact that you might die.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		In fact, the last words that the Mossad agent, who I came to really respect a great deal, said to me as I turned towards the door of the van that I was in, was, if you lift the latch of that door and walk across that border, you're a dead man if you're not on God's mission.
unidentified		Huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you didn't make a decision to stay in the car.
		I mean, someone says you're a dead man, and somebody from the Mosad says you're a dead man, and most people would stay in the car and say, well, okay.
		I get your point.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Well, unless you really thought that you were called to do it.
		I felt that I was being called to do it.
		And so I recognized that if Yahweh, who is the name of the God of the Bible, if he genuinely wanted me to do this, he was not going to allow me to get killed before I had a chance to report back to the American people what I had learned.
		And if I was wrong, then so be it.
		I was willing to take that risk.
		If somebody doesn't take that kind of a risk, how are we ever going to know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		So you're out of the vehicle.
		Now what?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I crossed what's called no man's land, which is a terrible mix of barbed wire and fences and broken buildings and armed guards roaming around.
		And that's about 200 yards long.
		And there's a van that has been described to me that blinks its lights three times.
		I see it.
		We have a series of passwords that we will exchange.
		I get in this van.
		We exchange the passwords, and the driver says nothing more.
		And from that point on, we go through streets that are lined with men and boys carrying automatic weapons.
		And they're that's almost all of Israel.
		They're pointed at me because they're expecting me.
		We drive for a better part of a half an hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're where?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you're in Palestinian-controlled territory, I assume.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yeah, once you cross the border, that's the reason why the Mossad says, hey, we can't go with you.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		There is no way to get it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you did all of this with no instructions nor support from the Mossad or CIA or any other government?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Well, I had instructions from the Mossad, which was don't do this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, but I mean, other than that.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		No, they said, you know, if you're convinced that you want to do this, all you're going to be able to go in with is a pen and paper.
		That's it.
		So from that point on, you are on your own.
		All we can do is hope and pray that you are able to get out and that you get out before sunset.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So going through town, people pointing guns.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, some of them just so bizarre because to have an adult point an automatic weapon at you is a strange feeling.
		But to have someone that is eight, nine, and ten years old in a group of three or four walk up to the window of your car and chamber around in a pistol, nine or ten millimeter pistol, and point that at your head and let it scrape the window as it goes by, that's an entirely different experience.
		You know, the trigger doesn't know that that's a child holding it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		And very, very odd.
		They take me finally after they change cars, they change drivers, to a bunker that's in this rock building underground.
		We walk through a series of steel doors, guards in a collection of either M16s or AK-47s, all the way along.
		Go into one final steel door down in this basement.
		The basement's only about 5 feet, 10.
		One light, broken light bulb hanging in the middle of the room.
		One table with steel chairs.
		It looks like a prison interrogation room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, brother.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		And bars on the little slit that exists in the room.
		And that's it.
		I walk in, sit down, pull out my notepaper and my pen, and for the next six hours they paraded Terrace through the room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Hold it right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how many of us would have the guts to do that?
		Nine-year-olds with automatic weapons point matches.
		Welcome.
		Glad to have you here.
		I'm Marcel.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		Go right by the wind.
		Throw down a spin.
		I gave you love.
		I thought that we had made it to the top.
		I gave you all.
		I had to give.
		I didn't have to stop.
		You blow it all sky high.
		By telling me a lie.
		Without a reason why.
		You don't come easy.
		You know it don't come easy.
		But you play your cues.
		You want to sing the blues.
		And you know it don't come easy.
		You don't have to shout or leave the vows.
		You can't even play them easy.
		Forget about the past.
		And all your sorrow.
		You know it don't come easy.
		And your guest host Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The future won't last.
		It'll soon be your tomorrows.
		That's the truth.
unidentified		Good morning, everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Mark Bell.
		My guest is great.
		I'm in for George.
		We'll be doing open live.
		Tonight we're going to talk about terrorism, specifically in Al-Qaeda and the people that want to kill us.
		And aren't you curious why they want us dead?
		I certainly am.
		The media, the American media, doesn't really cover that aspect of it.
		They just cover the fact they want us dead.
		But why?
		The big why?
		That's what I hope we're going to learn tonight.
		Stay right where you are.
unidentified		Stay right where you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we have somebody here, Craig Wynn, who went into the lair of the enemy and got to sit there for hours and hours with a pen and pad and ask questions of people like al-Qaeda, groups like Al-Qaeda.
		And so, you know, I guess what I would like to know, Craig, and maybe you had a lot of different ways of approaching it, and I certainly want to hear everything or the highlights of what they said to you, at least.
		But, I mean, basically, I guess I'd like to know why they so want us dead.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that is the most important question, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember the movie Independence Day?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
unidentified		I loved it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the really great thing, especially in the first half of that movie, was, you know, the aliens in that movie, they really didn't, they didn't want to bargain with us.
		They didn't want to change our national policy.
		The only thing they wanted was us dead.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that reminds me of this.
		I mean, that seems that way.
		They just want us dead.
		Well, how come?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And there are two very different answers depending on which group you ask.
		And since we're going to migrate to a discussion of Iraq, I'd like to express the difference depending if they are a religious terrorist or a political terrorist.
		And they are different.
		The first group I met with was a political group of terrorists.
		They were members of Fatah.
		Fatah is the political party.
		It's a socialist communist party.
		It was founded by Yasser Arafat.
		Yasser Arafat, by the way, did not found the PLO.
		PLO was founded by Nasser, a communist in Egypt at the time.
		But Fatah was the political organization that these three men belonged to, as a captain and two lieutenants.
		They described themselves as army men that were part of the Asuka Martyrs Brigade.
		Now, they said that they were not terrorists.
		They said that they were army men following orders.
		So the first thing, of course, I asked them was, well, whose orders are you following?
		And the captain said, I'm a direct report to Yasser Arafat.
		I said, all right, what kind of orders does Yasser Arafat give you?
		And these three men just all burst out laughing.
		I mean, just grinning from ear to ear.
		And I said, you're going to share with me what you're laughing about.
		And they said, well, you know, two days ago, you know what happened?
		And I said, no, not the bus to Emmanuel.
		They said, yes, the bus to Emmanuel.
		We blew the axles off that bus, and we were not terrorists because we didn't blow ourselves up.
		I said, but 11 children and women unarmed had their heads blown off by men wielding M16s like the one sitting right here on this desk in front of me.
		And they said, yeah, that was us.
		I said, you killed, the three of you killed those 11 innocent souls.
		Yes.
		They were gleeful about it.
		And by the way, they said, you know, we don't have a problem with America.
		We don't want Americans dead.
		If it wasn't for America, we wouldn't have our guns.
		You gave us these guns.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I imagine they had some M16s.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		And the two lieutenants said, and we were trained by the CIA in America, in Virginia.
		That's serious.
		And when I came back and was debriefed by the CIA, they said, yes, in fact, we did supply the guns.
		We supplied them on orders from Bill Clinton.
		Following the Oslo Accords, Yasira Fat said, I'm going to need a police department to be able to hunt down the terrorists and do my job.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		And these terrorists are going to need to be trained.
		And so we provided the training, we provided the guns, and they used them to kill innocent people.
		So these guys said that we are part of what is currently the majority in the Palestinian-controlled areas.
		But he says we will not be the majority very long because the real crazies are growing very, very fast.
		And there is so much money being thrown at them that they will very soon be the majority.
		And you Americans are so naive.
		You know so little about them.
		And when they become the majority here, which they will very, very soon, there'll be nothing anyone can do.
		Now, when a group of people who have just killed at point-blank range with automatic weapons 11 women and children, call another group of people crazy, you've got to be worried.
		And you also have to be worried when your government, the government, you know, I was not there as a representative of America.
		I was there as an individual.
		But when it's still, America is my country, I love America.
		When you're told that your country trained and equipped men who murdered innocent people, it hurts too.
		By the way, they said that the majority of their funding comes from America as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, historically, of course, America has trained and armed many who turn around and put bullets in Americans.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		For example, we saved Stalin in World War II.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		And as a result of us giving the guns and the tanks and the food to Stalin, and the same thing with Mao in China.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or more recently, the Mujahideen.
		It doesn't matter.
		We've done it historically.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		All through time, the last 60 years, all we have is a history of manufacturing our next enemy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We are, after all, the world's biggest arms dealer.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		We are indeed.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		We have more weapons of mass destruction than anybody else on the planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we know we have them.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		So the second group of terrorists had an entirely different agenda.
		Now, this group of terrorists were all religious terrorists.
		They belonged to Al-Qaeda, which means the foundation.
		And the foundation is a religious foundation.
		Interesting enough, Al-Qaeda was actually founded by a Palestinian, Palestinian academician, Hamas, Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad.
		And there really isn't any difference between any of these groups.
		In fact, one of the great travesties that we have in reporting in America is that we want to identify al-Qaeda as our principal villain, and we then try to take organizations like this Indonesian organization, Jama'ah Islamiyah, and we want to say they are the al-Qaeda wing in Indonesia.
		That's nonsense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there must be some difference, because for al-Qaeda, the United States was and is a target.
		For these other groups, frequently it's just the Israelis.
		So Al-Qaeda's branched out a bit.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Clearly, they have differing fields of interest, but they are all singing from the same hymnal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With respect to Al-Qaeda, why do they want us dead?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's religiously based, I think.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		It is religiously based.
		What they did when I asked them why they wanted us dead, 100% of the time, they quoted the Prophet's words out of what's called the Hadith or the Sunnah.
		There are four books that were written within 200 years, 250 years of the Prophet's death, only four that have his words and deeds in them.
		And they quoted from those books, and they quoted from the Quran, which this same prophet says are the words of a God named Allah.
		And those words were, we have been ordered to wipe the infidels out to the last.
		We have been ordered to fight the disbelievers until the only religion is Islam.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, from their point of view, believe or die.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		It's either believe or die.
		And so I was in the position that really everyone that's in a position of political power in America or in a position of responsibility within the journalistic community should be in, which is since what they told me is not all that different from what we hear in their press releases to the media, you really need to know, are they quoting these things correctly, in context, incorrectly?
		If they are, then in fact, their religion is corrupting them.
		If they're taking these things out of context and quoting them incorrectly, then the argument should be made that they are corrupting their religion and that we need to find out where this form of corruption is.
		And that's really what I went to find.
		I was convinced that they were corrupting their religion and I wanted to find out what kind of modern-day prophet, if you will, they were following who had somehow corrupted what was otherwise a loving and peaceful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, prior to your meeting with them, you had studied Islam, had you not?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		I had.
		I now have probably, I think, last count, about 10,000 hours into the study of it.
		But I did not at the time.
		I knew probably a thousand-fold more than the average American about Islam.
		Now I probably know more than any American about Islam.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you know enough about Islam at that point to understand that you were hearing perversions in the quotes?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		I did.
		and unfortunately my uh...
		what i knew was that i was not hearing perversions in the uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		the quotes well i expected to hear well Now, that's a very important point.
		You're saying that what you were quoted is no perversion, meaning, and that's said in the American press, you hear that everywhere.
		There's an Islamic specialist on.
		They will say, well, this is all because of perversion of belief.
		And so there's a big difference in what you're saying.
		You're saying, oh, no, no, no, no, it's not a perversion in belief.
		This is what was written.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		There is no truth that I could convey to you and your audience more important than that one.
		I expected them to quote someone like Qutub, who's an Egyptian scholar whose writings became the foundation for the Muslim Brotherhood and was the first Islamicist to do something that hadn't been done in many, many centuries, which was to target non-Muslims.
		Because the Wahhabis, for example, have always targeted, good Muslims have targeted bad Muslims.
		And so I expected them to quote the writings of Qutub, who's kind of the Martin Luther of the modern Islamicist jihadist movement, if you will.
		They did not do that.
		They quoted directly out of their scriptures, and they quoted them correctly.
		And not only did they quote them correctly, they didn't take them out of context, and they didn't cherry-pick the bad ones from a sea of good ones.
		That's the single most important thing that I can tell you.
		And that is profound for many reasons.
		One of those reasons is that means that the President of the United States is lying to us.
		That means that he sent in troops to combat an enemy that he is denying the nature of.
		That means that the American media will propagate a lie to the American people willfully or knowingly.
		And that means that we are being killed by people who believe that doing so is A service to their God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why is it mainstream belief in America that it is not all of Islam?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That in fact it is only a small segment of Islam that knows or believes this or is radicalized by this.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Because that actually happens to be true.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Most Muslims, my guess is that it's 90% of Muslims in America and 80% of Muslims worldwide do not know their prophet, do not know their scriptures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so what we will talk about in terms of what do these scriptures actually say about this man and this Godly understood the scriptures, they'd be plowing airplanes into buildings.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Well, not necessarily.
		If they knew them and applied them, it is impossible, by Allah's definition in the Quran, to be a good Muslim and not be a terrorist.
		It is impossible, by Allah's definition in the Quran, to be a good Muslim and not be a terrorist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps you should give me a couple of quotes that you feel justify that position.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		I will do so.
		If you would.
		But that sense really knowing what Muhammad was like and what he said and understanding what Allah ordered and what he is like would cause all rational people to flee Islam.
		So I don't think that knowing these scriptures would cause most Muslims to become terrorists.
		I think it would do exactly the opposite.
		It would cause most Muslims not to be Muslims anymore.
		And that is my principal goal, is I want to expose what the scriptures actually say so that thinking men and women that have choice make the right choice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're suggesting they would be so morally offended by a proper interpretation that they simply wouldn't move in that direction.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and I wouldn't even use the word interpretation.
		You don't need to interpret these things.
		The words are extremely simple.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Give me a few.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's take a couple of these and get an idea what Muslims are actually told to believe and think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go right ahead.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to read, this is from the ninth surah.
		Slay the infidels wherever you find them.
		Infidels are defined, by the way, in the fifth surah, which was the last handed down in 572, as anyone who says that Christ is the Messiah.
		So an infidel is a Christian.
		Slay the infidels wherever you find them.
		Lie in wait for them.
		Fight these specimens of faithfulness.
		Fight them that Allah may punish them at your hands and put them to shame.
		And Allah sent down invisible troops, these are killer angels, to punish the infidels.
		Fight the Christians and Jews until they all pay the protective tax in submission and humility.
		How perverse are they?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The protective tax.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a real interesting thing.
		In Islam, there are two forms of taxation.
		In fact, Islam, when you read the Islamic hadith, what you find is that Muhammad founded Islam for the money.
		And it becomes just this sea of terrorist raids to confiscate other people's money.
		And once you become a Muslim in one of these raids, then you must pay an Islamic tax called the Zakat.
		But if you are not a Muslim, you must pay the jihad.
		And that tax is hugely more punitive.
		And it is a tax imposed on all non-Muslims who are conquered by the sword of Islam.
		And when they conquer, their Quran tells them that they are to give the infidels, the unbelievers, three choices.
		Convert and become a Muslim and pay the lesser tax, the Zakat.
		Stay a Christian or Jew and pay what is ultimately financial suicide, the jitter, or die.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, gee, I shouldn't laugh, but I had no idea there were such provisions for buying oneself out of the necessity of belief.
		That's crazy.
		You know, I guess just about every war we really ever fight, or the reason we kill each other mostly is over religion, isn't it?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, when I studied this, I came to the conclusion that religion is poison.
		Now, interestingly enough, if you were a Christian or a Jew listening to this, neither Judaism nor Christianity were founded as religions.
		As a matter of fact, the word religion is not in the Old Testament at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nevertheless, with that line, you still manage to offend everybody across the board.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		I'm certain that's true.
		But understand, the definition of religion, religion is not even in the Old Testament.
		The Old Testament is a covenant, which is a relationship.
		The New Testament, the Gospels, is a personal relationship with the Creator of the universe.
		It is neither is a religion.
		In fact, Christ himself was anti-religious.
		Now, Islam was founded as a religion.
		The Quran uses religion throughout, and Muhammad says that he has, that Allah chose the religion named submission for man.
		So in Islam, there is no choice.
		The only choice that exists is the choice that Allah makes.
		In fact, all Muslims, all people on the planet, according to the hadith and the Quran, are born, predestined to heaven and hell.
		And they say that 999 out of every 1,000 people are predestined, born to be the faggots for hell's fires.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, we're coming up on a break.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very quickly, with what you know about Islam, is a war between Islam and Christianity or Islam and the West inevitable?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll take that.
		Yes, just hold it right there.
		We'll be right back.
		We'll take a break here.
		I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		Who?
		Yeah.
		What is good for?
		Absolutely.
		Nothing.
		Uh-huh.
		Who?
		Yeah.
		What is good for?
		Absolutely.
		Nothing.
		Say it again.
		Who?
		Who?
		Yeah.
		What is good for?
		Absolutely.
		Nothing.
		Listen to me.
		I despise.
		Cause it means destruction of this life.
		Warm me in tears.
		The thousands are more to laugh.
		When they're so close to pain.
		I'm a cross messenger all alone.
		Can't get no connection.
		Can't get through.
		Where are you?
		Well, the night is heavy.
		I'm just guilty in mind.
		Let's fall from the borderline.
		Where the hitman goes.
		He knows damn well he has been cheated.
		Hey, I'm just guilty.
		How long have you been to the twilight zone?
		This is in my house.
		It is my people.
		My people can't move.
		I'm the moon and star.
		Where am I to go now that I've gone to fall?
		How long have you been to the twilight zone?
		Where am I to go now that I've gone to fall?
		It's my people.
		How long have you been to the twilight zone?
		How long have you been to the twilight zone?
		Premier Radio Networks presents Coast to Coast AM with George North.
		And now, filling in for George, here's special guest host, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that would be me.
		What an honor being here for George.
		Thank you very much, everybody.
		My guest is Craig Wynn.
		He went into the lair of those who would see us dead.
		And on a fairly regular basis lately, have been demonstrating that.
		It's quite a discussion to have.
		Now, bear in mind what he just said.
		Shocking as it may have been that the American media and even our president have it all wrong.
		And that if you really read the words and adhere to them in a very fundamentalist way, might be a way to put it, that they'd all be terrorists.
		Well, no, they wouldn't.
		90, 95% might not be, but that'd be...
		So that clears 90 or 95%, I suppose, in that sense.
		So we're not talking about all of Islam.
		We're talking about those who don't interpret things a certain way, but simply believe them in a very, very fundamental way.
		We'll get back to all of that, Craig Wynn, in a moment.
unidentified		We'll get back to all of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, Craig Wynn.
		Craig, here's what I'm curious about.
		If our president, certainly our government and our intelligence agencies within our government and other governments understand if what you say is so, they understand the same things.
		They know what this is all about.
		So based on that and what they must have told our president, unless they're lying to our president, after 9-11, what should the president have said versus what he did say?
		Craig's not there.
		I'm going to have to read all Craig.
		Craigman is gone.
		I wonder how that happened.
		Good old telephone systems.
		I'll tell you.
		Now I'm going to have to rephrase that entire question.
		Well, I'm used to this.
		Live radio.
		That's the way it works.
		Let's see if we can get Craig back.
		If he didn't hear that, I'll rephrase it for him.
		Are you there, Craig?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, good.
		Well, I don't know what happened, Craig.
		I'm used to it.
		Okay.
		Let me do this and this and this, which is supposed to insure against that kind of baloney, and rephrase my question.
		Did you happen to hear it?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, good.
		All right.
		So after 9-11 occurred, I'm going to assume that our intelligence agencies understand and know the things that you have just explained to us, if they're true.
		They would certainly be aware of them, having interviewed terrorists themselves.
		They would understand these perhaps basic, what you consider to be basic truths.
		Therefore, what should our president have said after 9-11 when he gave his speech versus what he did say?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Well, had I been in his shoes, what I would have said is that the prayer request that we discovered in the cars of the men who did this said that they were to scream, Allah-u-Akbar, as they were slitting this stewardess's throats and forcing their ways into the cabin.
		Allah UAKBA means Allah is greatest.
		So there is obviously a connection here between Allah and the deeds that are being perpetrated.
		And if I were him, I would have said, I do not at this point understand the full consequence of that connection.
		But obviously, understanding the motivation of those who want to kill us is more important than anything else in my job.
		And I'm going to find out what it is.
		And when I find out what it is, even if it's unpopular, I'm going to tell you the truth.
		And then together, we'll deal with this.
		That's what he should have said.
		And then I think the American people would have been patient enough if the President of the United States had said, I'm going to read to you from these books, and I'm going to tell you why these guys are killing us.
		Now, that does not mean that we need to go out and hate Muslims.
		Absolutely the opposite.
		In fact, we need to love Muslims.
		We've got to love Muslims enough to free them from this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've already qualified what you've said sufficiently, I think.
		I mean, if 95% understanding it in a very fundamentalist way would walk away from it, then you're not casting them all into the same.
		Well, that's fine.
		I love Muslims.
		Okay, so then still, with the understanding you now have, Craig, how Would you have us, should you be president, deal with this threat?
		What should we be doing versus what we have done?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Well, the first thing that you would do is to understand the nature of the doctrine that causes men to behave so madly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let us assume that.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		And let me give you a great example.
		In 1924, Adolf Hitler wrote Mein Kampf.
		In Mein Kampf, he said, I am establishing a religion.
		Most people don't know that, but Mein Kampf was written as a religion.
		Hitler was very upfront about it.
		And I'm going to use this religion to control my people and motivate them to martyrdom so that they might terrorize all who oppose me and that I might conquer the world.
		Took him a thousand pages to say it, but that's what he says over and over and over again in Mein Kampf.
		And yet, even though he wrote it in 1924, we appeased him all the way through 1938, giving him chuckles of Akya.
		Six months after we traded him land for peace, he started a war that led to the deaths of 55 million people.
		Indeed.
		And because we as a nation and we as free people didn't take the time to understand the doctrine that caused men to behave badly, that was the consequence.
		So it is far more important.
		We in America have this tendency to do what we have done in Afghanistan and Iraq.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My question, though, is a strategic one, Craig.
		In other words, given your understanding and stipulating that what you say is true, based on that then, what would you as president order to be done, either diplomatically or militarily?
		What would you order be done?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, the first thing is to correctly identify the enemy.
		That is huge.
		The second thing that I would do is to recognize that the largest wealth transfer in the history of the world is going from the United States and other Western nations to the specific kingdoms that are manufacturing terrorists.
		We send a billion dollars a day to black ooze.
		That black ooze is being spent to build mosques and schools and media outlets that literally teach what I have read.
		Because you can't teach a different form of Islam because that's the only one that's in the Quran.
		That's the only one that's in the Hadith.
		That's what they're teaching.
		In fact, I'll read out of the Quran the definition of jihad so that your audience is very clear as they're going to be able to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They hear the word jihad a lot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So go ahead.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let me read the definition right out of the Quran.
		It's 80% of the mosques in America, in fact, in the free world, are built by the Fahd family in Saudi Arabia.
		So this definition that I'm going to read is out of the Quran that the Fahd family not only translated, but it's in all of the mosques in the Western world.
		It says, Al-Jihad, holy fighting in Allah's cause.
		Doesn't say anything about a spiritual struggle.
		Holy fighting in Allah's cause with full force of numbers and weaponry.
		It is given the utmost import in Islam and is one of its pillars upon which it stands.
		By jihad, Islam is established.
		Allah's word is made superior.
		His word means that none may be worshipped other than Allah.
		And his religion of Islam is propagated.
		By abandoning jihad, may Allah protect us from that, Islam is destroyed and all Muslims fall into an inferior position.
		Their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish.
		Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim, and any Muslim who tries to escape this duty dies as a hypocrite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Meaning, if a religious leader calls for a jihad, you are an immediate soldier or else.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yes, what the Prophet Muhammad said is that if any, this is a direct quote out of the Islamic hadith or Sunnah, if any Islamic leader calls for a jihad, you must go forth immediately.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying that then a call for a jihad is like a declaration of war.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		That is correct.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could be called against other Islamics that have perhaps lost the path.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could be called against anybody or any nation or whatever, right?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but what it has to be is it has to be in Allah's cause.
		Allah's cause is defined as two different things.
		One is subduing the disbelievers, the non-Muslims.
		And this is really the most frightening part if you are what you may want to call a Christmas and Easter Muslim, if you will.
		If you're a Muslim who doesn't know your scriptures very well, or if you're a peace-loving person and happen to be a Muslim, is that Allah's greatest enemy, according to the Quran, is not us disbelieving infidels.
		It's peaceful Muslims.
		The Medina surahs, the last revealed, the last 24, are very explicit in describing the difference between a good Muslim and a bad Muslim from Allah's perspective.
		And he says that a bad Muslim is one who does not leave their home to fight jihad in his cause.
		He calls them a hypocrite.
		And he says they're the most vile of creatures, the worst of animals, and the hottest places in hell are reserved for the peaceful Muslims.
		If you're a peaceful Muslim, your God doesn't like you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then I don't mean to be flippant, but then there are plenty of those around, so why aren't they going after them, and why are they coming after us?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		They have been going after them.
		In fact, when they blew up the UN building in Iraq, that's what they were doing.
		When they went in and blew up the mosque in Iraq here a couple of days ago, that's what they were doing.
		Gotcha.
		So they do that to a great extent.
		In fact, until that's what they primarily did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they're fighting on all fronts.
		Okay, I've got that.
		But I still, I want to come, I'm going to keep coming back to this.
		If you were president with all of this understanding, I want to know what you would do.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		So I was talking about the oil money.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		The reason I'm talking about the oil money is Islam has always run on money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Always.
		And if we were to immediately stop the billion dollars a day that funds these manufacturing facilities, we would starve the machine to death.
		And there's only one way to do that.
		And unfortunately, it has to be done militarily because we've made too many bad choices as a nation and we don't have the 10 to 20 years that it's going to take to wean ourselves off this dependence.
		And so we have to recognize that in the 1960s, 100% of the oil facilities that exist in the Islamic world were stolen from American citizens.
		They were all public companies owned by Americans.
		They were stolen.
		And the American government did nothing.
		If we as a nation, I know this doesn't sound nice, we as a nation don't take those facilities back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, stolen as in nationalized.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Stolen as in nationalized.
		They were taken from American shareholders without any compensation by, and when you say nationalized, it's a very different thing calling an Islamic country a nation versus calling France or England a nation.
		These are all countries that are the private property of the ruling thug, whether they call themselves a prince or they call themselves president.
		They're all warlords that are over these lines that have been drawn in the sand by the Brits, by the way, following World War I when the Muslims fought their brethren, the Turks, and the Brits promised that they would reward the warlords that fought on their side with faithems.
		And that's essentially how we got these countries.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then you would have our military take back the oil.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		I would.
		And what I would make certain is that 100% of the money for that oil goes to positive humanitarian things, and that zero percentage of it goes to manufacture more terrorists.
		And if you were to do that, you'd have a profound impact on terrorism because literally it runs on money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well then, are you proposing we invade Saudi Arabia, for example?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Well, invade is a very different thing when you're talking about oil facilities versus countries.
		What we did in Iraq, I believe, was totally wrong for a hundred important reasons.
		And occupying a country is a very wrong thing to do.
		To surround, to take over and control the most important points of contact in terms of oil production and shipment is an extremely easy thing to do by comparison to trying to occupy a country.
		So I don't want us to occupy these countries.
		All I want us to do is to use our forces to surround the largest of the oil distribution facilities so that we can assure the - Well, yeah, but they're going to regard that as an act of war now.
		Of course they are.
		But what are they going to do about it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I suppose more of what they're doing right now, blowing us up and killing us every day.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		But the reason they're able to blow us up and kill us every day under the president's demand is that not only do they have the money and therefore the incentive, because one of the things that I learned when I talked to these terrorists and asked them why they were doing it, in addition to quoting from their scriptures, they told me about the money.
		And the money is unbelievable.
		It's literally unreal.
		What the families of suicide bombers get?
		It's millions.
		They're mercenaries.
		They're doing it for the money.
		And the same thing is true with all these jihadists that have gone into Iraq to take shots at our men.
		But the reason that we are so vulnerable there is we've got our men walking down the streets of Baghdad and other cities.
		And you might as well put a target on it and say, shoot me.
		Now, to surround a facility that's out in the middle of the desert versus trying to walk through the streets and to enter people's homes is a million-fold different in terms of vulnerability and difficulty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, right, but I guarantee you, we're not going to go marching into Saudi Arabia and surround the oil fields and take them without a fight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or Syria or, I don't know, Iran or anywhere you want to talk about.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Right.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Now, unfortunately, we actually abandoned Saudi Arabia when the FAD family would not allow us to use our bases in the largest area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If the truth were known, though, about where a lot of the money came from for the attack on 9-11 on those buildings and on the Pentagon, the truth is a lot came out of Saudi Arabia, but nobody wants to talk about that.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		And directly from the FAD family as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but nobody wants to talk about that, do they?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I notice that hardly even gets graced in the press around.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		You know what's amazing is the 28 pages that came out of the report that we paid for as taxpayers that was funded by Congress on what really happened in 9-11.
		The 28 pages that explained that it was the Saudis was classified and Americans can't even read it.
		That's what's on those 28 pages.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then let's see what you're saying about this war.
		I never did properly understand the reason for the war because, well, we still don't have the weapons of mass destruction, but that aside, you'd have to prove that they intended to use them on us before I would think you'd risk American lives.
		So that couldn't be the reason.
		Correct.
		Gee, what could be the reason?
		Well, maybe you just stated it.
		You think we did the right thing and did it the wrong way or something?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
unidentified		Yeah, but we do have control of the oil fields there, right?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		We do, and unfortunately, we are not redirecting the money intelligently.
		No, I think what we did in Iran was Iraq was totally wrong.
		In fact, a lot of the reason I wrote Deal with Terrorists is I was convinced that we would behave this way.
		In fact, everything that I predicted that would go wrong in Deal with Terrorists in Afghanistan, in Iraq, is going wrong.
		And I wanted to write a book and then speak out on why we shouldn't do this before we did it.
		You know, it's one thing to come out now and say we shouldn't be there because they're killing us and it's a Vietnam no-win scenario.
		It's an entirely different thing to explain the half a dozen reasons why this was a no-win game before we did it.
		And yes, I believe that we should not have gone.
		And it's not because I'm not pro-military.
		I think that the military is a very fine institution.
		It is.
		And I think there are places where it has to be used.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just not properly understanding your proposed course of action.
		I mean, you just couldn't go take those oil fields without a fight.
		So we're talking about war either way.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Well, the difference is monumental in terms of the cost and the consequence.
		But let's talk about what we did in Iraq, because we did not go in to take control of the oil wells in Iraq.
		We went in to liberate Iraq and allegedly to protect America from the clear and present danger of weapons of mass.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's talk about that for a second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was there a clear and present danger?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		No.
		And by the way, all intelligence reports confirm that.
		Tennant, in his open addresses to the U.S. Senate, said that there is no chance that Saddam Hussein is going to use any of his weapons of mass destruction on the United States unless he is provoked and cornered by American troops invading his country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And even when we did, he didn't.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and you know what was really the more important question than does he have them was the fact that it was a lose-lose scenario.
		And you never enter lose-lose scenarios.
		If he had them and was willing to use them, he would have used them on our troops as we were in his backyard.
		And if he did that, we would have lost tens of thousands of our best young men and women.
		And Saddam Hussein's head is not worth that many men and women.
		And if he did not use them, then it proved absolutely that there was no chance he was going to use them on American soil.
		And so he was not a clear and present danger.
		That was untrue.
		And even if he was, we should not have gone there because the price for his head would have been too high.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, let's stop there.
		He was not a clear and present danger.
		And Iraq was not a clear and present danger.
		I absolutely buy into that.
		Now, we're still looking for the weapons of mass destruction.
		I don't think they've turned up yet, actually, not a one.
		I'm Art Bell from the high desert, where we hope it'll be drier soon.
		You're listening to Coast to Coast AM.
		And for the great George Norrie, stay right where you are.
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		Now for George Norrie, special guest host, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is the number lineup, everybody.
		They're a little different when I'm here, obviously.
		And I am Art Bell for George Norry.
		Good evening.
		Craig Wynn is here.
		You know, the one thing I really would like to understand about this war is why we did it.
		And if there was no clear and present danger of those weapons being used against us, in fact, it might not even have them.
		We haven't found them yet.
		Then if it wasn't clear and present danger, what other reasons might we have for going to war?
unidentified		In other words, why did we do it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'd really like to know the answer to that question.
		I have a feeling Craig will have it.
		We'll probe in a moment.
unidentified		Sounds of the wind
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Always seemed to me if we were going to go after a nation because of weapons of mass destruction, then how come we're not attacking North Korea?
		I mean, they're about to declare themselves a nuclear nation.
		They've been, I don't know how many bombs they have, but a bunch.
		Iran, gee, they might have some bombs.
		Syria is probably working on it.
		I mean, there's all kinds of nasty people around, lots of reasons to invade countries, if that's the reason.
		So it's like that can't be the reason either.
		So it's not a clear present danger.
		No weapons of mass destruction yet.
		Honestly, I want to understand why we had this war, Craig.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Well, Hart, there are four reasons for using a nation's military.
		Three of them are just.
		One of them is not.
		We've talked about one of the just motivations.
		Can we talk about the other two just motivations before we talk about, in my opinion, why we actually went into Iraq, which is the fourth choice?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, so one justified.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, yeah, sure.
unidentified		Go ahead.
unidentified		Okay.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the first is clear and present danger.
		They were not a clear and present danger to the United States.
		Even if we find weapons of mass destruction, the fact they were not used when our troops were in their backyard confirms that.
		Second is a defense.
		If the Japanese attack us in Pearl Harbor, it's a real smart thing for us to go and attack the Japanese.
		Now, we were attacked on 9-11, but that does not mean you go off and attack somebody who was not responsible for 9-11.
		Iraq was not responsible for 9-11.
		Okay, so that's the second reason.
		The third reason is something that we as a nation have a tendency to lose sight of and is the justification we're using Here, but incorrectly, which is there are times when a defenseless group of people are tyrannized to the point where millions are dying at the hands of some despot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it happens all over the world.
		Look, it happened in Africa, it happened in Cambodia.
		We should have gone trumping into Cambodia if that's the case.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		When we're dealing with, rather than tens of thousands, when the number reaches hundreds of thousands or millions, for example, Adolf Hitler opened Dachau within two weeks of the time that he was pronounced chancellor.
		When he started exterminating Jews, we should have sacrificed, that would have been an appropriate place to sacrifice American coin and blood to save millions of people.
		Pol Pot would have been the same thing in Cambodia and in the Sudan in the last 13 years.
		That is the most traditional, the most fundamental Islamic government in the world is in the Sudan.
		They've killed 2 million Christians in the last 13 years.
		Now, so there are examples of places to do that, but if you're going to do it in that scenario, two things have to be true.
		One is that since the world is full of these despots that kill their own citizens, you know, there are millions, many, many, many of them, it has to be to rise above the level that now it's worth risking American lives.
		And second of all, you have to have the potential for a better outcome than you went in with.
		For example, we went into Somalia.
		Somalia, there were probably 400,000 Somalians that have died at the hands of the Islamic warlords there.
		But we had no chance of creating a better scenario, so the lives that we lost were lost in vain.
		The same thing is true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not even sure that I agree with you on that last one.
		It's debatable.
		I'm not sure that any number of foreign suffering folk justify American military movements in blood and coin, as you put it.
		But let me go ahead and accept that for the sake of the discussion here.
		Why, in fact, did we go to war with Iraq?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Just so that I understand, in a situation where it reaches the Cambodian stage and we're dealing with millions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we didn't, though.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		I know we didn't.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		But I believe that when it gets to the point we're talking about millions, like it is in the Sudan, like it was in Cambodia, like it was in Nazi Germany, at that point, boy, it's awful hard to justify not doing anything, allowing millions of people to die.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, and that's probably what the UN is for, if it's for anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But again, that issue.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		But you do that collectively.
		I mean, you do that as a world.
		You don't do that as one nation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		And you've got to go in a situation, even if you're going to do that, where the outcome is clearly going to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All correct, Craig.
		We did this by ourselves.
		More or less.
		I mean, we've mixed a few in, but we did it by ourselves.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		he did it for the fourth reason which is the only other reason that any nation ever goes to work and that would be That's it?
		That's it.
		Karl Rove, who I know, recognized that if he had a wartime president going into the congressional elections, he could take back the Senate.
		He did.
		I'm sorry, but that is the reason.
		That is the only other reason that any country sends in its troops.
		There's only four reasons.
		And the fourth is always bad.
		It's always political.
		That man had a very low rating as a president.
		It shot up to 90%.
		When I wrote T with Terrace, his political rating was 90%.
		And I predicted, because I wrote T with Terrace three years in advance, now it's only a year and a half in advance, where I predicted everything that was going to happen, including that this war was going to go terribly wrong because it was being waged for the wrong reasons without any ideas to why we were being killed.
		And that as a result, this man would lose his midterm election.
		America's not going to put up with this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The war, of course, is a good thing for the economy.
		It is traditionally said.
		I didn't say that.
		It's traditionally said that it is.
		I mean, industry cranks up.
		You have to make more missiles because you fire so many of them and all that.
		And so, you know, defense.
		Well, we did spend a lot of money for defense.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		But unfortunately, the reason why this one is not is that the nation now is under the largest deficit spending in its entire history.
		It went from surpluses to huge deficits.
		While we can't ensure the power for 50 million Americans, we're spending $400 billion in Iraq.
		$400 billion in Iraq.
		I want to tell you that that's the size of the projected deficit.
		Spending money you don't have or forcing the American taxpayers to spend money on a country that doesn't want us.
		I mean, they're marching in the streets at $2,000 and $300 and $400,000 at a time.
		They don't want us there.
		Why are we spending $400,000?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They definitely don't feel welcome there.
		And I don't think most of the listeners think that we're welcome there.
		We're not welcome there.
		It's obvious.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		And you know what's interesting is yesterday, a former Secretary of the Army was on a number of the network television shows, and he was talking about the reaction of George Bush and Cheney as to how this war would be fought, and that it would be very quick.
		We would liberate Iraq and that the Iraqi people would throw flowers at the Americans and be so excited that we had liberated them that as soon as we had taken out the Baath Party regime, that it would be over.
		We would be able to leave and they would be ecstatic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was absolutely my impression.
		If we were going to go in and liberate it, then there'd be a little period of time and then we'd say, here you go, have democracy or whatever you want.
		See you later.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		That's the reason why I spent so much time talking about the fact that if you don't read the Mein Kampf of the doctrine, you have no idea what you're getting into.
		Saddam Hussein doesn't motivate people to jihad.
		It's the doctrine that causes people to behave badly.
		And until you understand the nature of the doctrine, you will have no idea how the people will respond.
		We don't understand the motivation.
		Until we understand the motivation, you can't predict what's going to happen.
		If you understand the motivation, you can predict what's going to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now I notice we're building military bases in Iraq.
		There's every sign that we're going to stay there.
		What would your prediction be, that we're going to have to remain there indefinitely or what?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		No, I think it's going to be exactly like Vietnam.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly like Vietnam.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		In Vietnam, We were in a game we could not win.
		By the way, we went into Vietnam.
		For those that think that the U.S. government just knows everything and just makes all the right calls and why aren't we swell, we went into Vietnam on a lie.
		The Gulf of Tonken incident did not occur.
		That's how Congress approved Johnson sending in the troops.
		That did not occur.
		It was a lie.
		Just like it's a lie to say that invading Iraq is a war on terrorism because Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9-11.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Al Qaeda, It was an absolute lie.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Matter of fact, al-Qaeda wasn't directly responsible for 9-11.
		They were only indirectly responsible.
		9-11 was conceived in the Al-Qaed Mosque in Hamburg, Germany.
		That's where it was conceived.
		That's where it was staffed, and that's where it was financed.
		Al-Qaeda was only one of dozens of these fundamental Islamic organizations that took credit for it.
		So we did the wrong thing.
		In fact, when we went into Afghanistan to pound the Taliban and Al-Qaeda, we did the worst possible thing I could even imagine.
		We pushed the fundamentalist Islamists, these are the people that really know their hadith and their Quran, know it like I do, but unfortunately haven't rejected it.
		We pushed them out of Afghanistan into Pakistan, where they are stronger today by every account.
		In fact, you see it in the news every day.
		They're stronger today than they ever were.
		And Pakistan is the only Islamic nation that currently has the atomic bomb.
		They're a one assassin's bullet from having a fission bomb, and they'll use it.
		Talk about dumb.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it your view that they will use it on us and that that will happen?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		In fact, when I talk with the Mossad, they believe, as I do, that it's a 99% likelihood that the next 10 years an American city will suffer in what may be a million casualties as a result of one of three devices.
		In fact, I speak about all three of these devices in NT with terrorists so that America would understand the consequence of continuing to fund our own funeral.
		That's why I talked about these oil facilities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, isn't a dirty bomb the most likely?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Well, the dirty bomb is the easiest, and we have misreported the nature of a dirty bomb.
		A dirty bomb is not going to be made with barium, you know, like the stuff you use for enemas.
		It's going to have cobalt-60 and strontium-90 is what it's going to be comprised of.
		That's the diversity of the business.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Folks, you better listen very carefully to this because he's right.
		The American public don't understand the implications of a real dirty bomb.
		Man, I have heard this played down in the American media as you wouldn't believe.
		When we were worried about it, not too long ago, really worried about it.
		They huffed and they puffed and they said, oh, a dirty bomb would kill, you know, to be very localized.
		It wouldn't be a real problem.
		Tell them the truth, Craig.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Okay, this will be shocking.
		They're going to use the daughter products of a nuclear reactor.
		That's the reason why Iran has 20 of them built by the French and the Russians.
		You've got to ask yourself a question.
		Why does a country that floats on oil and natural gas need atoms to boil water?
		That's all a nuclear reactor is, is a giant steam engine.
		And the reason is that the daughter products of those, the spent fuel rods, which are called daughter products, form two things that are extremely valuable to them.
		One is uranium-235, which can be then conditioned into the fuel for a fission bomb.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Refined, if you have fuel.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Refined, yes, into the fuel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you have the science.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but the hardest part is not the science to make the bomb.
		It's getting the raw material to refine to make the fuel.
		That's the hard part.
		And when you have a nuclear reactor, that's the reason we wanted the nuclear reactors shut down in North Korea.
		That's the reason we have sent North Korea all of its oil and fuel for the last decade is we didn't want them to fire up those nuclear reactors because we know what the daughter products are.
		The second form of daughter products is these very lethal forms of nuclear material.
		And two of them in particular have very short half-lives.
		The shorter the half-life, the more lethal the material.
		Strontium-90, cobalt-60 are great examples.
		One has a five-year half-life, the other is a 25-year half-life.
		If you were to take a coffee can size container of those two ingredients, which are very easy to come by, in fact, the United States alone has reported nearly 1,000 thefts just in the United States of this material.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Just in the United States.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you latch it on to conventional explosives.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		And all you do is, in fact, what I did so that America would understand it and Tiva Terrace, I said, if you were to take a sailboat and you were to float it into any one of America's 12 largest cities, all of America's 12 largest cities are on waterways, and you were to put it in Yacht Harbor and you were to take this coffee can-sized container and you were to throw it up in the air with an RPG, of which there are a dime a dozen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		And you were to throw it up in the air on the Hudson River in a coffee can-sized container, New York would be uninhabitable for a century.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		A million people would die.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a dirty bomb.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		That's a dirty bomb.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's thrown up with a rocket-propelled grenade device.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Get it 200 feet in the air and let it explode.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		It's over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this is what Americans need to understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Instead of listening to these people who say a dirty bomb would be a terrible event, but not a really horrible event, they're wrong, aren't they?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		They are wrong.
		They're talking about ingredients that are used in medical research, and that's not what they're going to use.
		They're going to use the daughter products of nuclear power plants, and they're not going to steal it, although it's easy to steal it from America.
		We've had a thousand thefts in the last five years.
		They're going to steal it principally from the refineries in places like Iran.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there was once a day in the world when you could say to yourself, nobody'd be crazy enough to do that because it'd be suicidal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Those days are long gone.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		You know, Art, the reason that we had the nuclear standoff with the Russians, we called that MAD, didn't we?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Mutually assured destruction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		You know the reason that MAD worked?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Russians weren't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because it really wasn't.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		The Russians weren't MAD.
		The Russians weren't.
		There was no part of communism that caused the Russians to say that if I die killing non-communists, I'm going to paradise to live with virgins.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, correct.
		And by the way, maybe you can settle that for us.
		We once heard a number, a specific number, with regard to the virgins one would potentially acquire going as a martyr.
		What is that number?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		First of all, it's what has become a comic routine to talk about the 72 virgins.
		No, no, no, no.
unidentified		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would seem to be the same.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		The fact is that the Quran itself is the place where the virgins are described.
		In the Mecca Surahs, Muhammad goes to great lengths to talk about how every martyr is going to get multiple virgins.
		He doesn't specify the number.
		Multiple virgins.
		They're perpetual virgins, by the way.
		They grow a new growth after they've been conquered.
		And that the rivers flow with wine.
		That's kind of interesting.
		Why would the reward in paradise be what Islam prohibits on earth?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to have to consider the phrase perpetual virgin anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Virgin anyway, I mean, that just doesn't seem to work.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		No, and these perpetual virgins are a special creation.
		They're not women from Earth.
		In fact, according to Muhammad, he went to hell and he saw that most of the inhabitants of hell were women, and they were women because they complained.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, anyway, suppose to say, there will be no shortage of martyrs or anybody who throws a cough can up or whatever.
		So the next thing is access.
		I mean, with the North Koreans and the Iranians and others having the sister products, as you pointed out, of nuclear plants, there's got to be no shortage, daughter products, whatever relative, of this stuff.
		It's going to kill a lot of people.
		And is it going to be possible for them to get that close without detection?
		Or is the great homeland security that's going to, or has been created, going to protect us by detecting these nasty things as they're going to be able to do that?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		No, that's counterproductive.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		First, depending on whether it's an alpha or beta wave, the radioactive nature of those isotopes can either be contained in a very thin wall of aluminum or in a fairly thick wall of lead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Without detection.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Without detection.
		So if you were to take those two ingredients and surround them both by aluminum and lead, and rather than having the coffee can be normal coffee can thickness, you put it in the size of a one-gallon pail, but constructed of the right aluminum and lead, there is no way it could be detected.
		None.
		We have zero way in the United States to detect it.
		And even if we did, there is no government agency that's going around every boat that enters America and every airplane that enters America and checking for these things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think it has not yet happened?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that homeland security is actually counterproductive.
		What homeland security does is it changes the freedom equation in America.
		And it takes freedoms away from the victims of terror, and it creates the environment, the lack of freedom, in which terror thrives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But isn't that always the trade-off, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's freedom for safety, right?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		No, as a matter of fact, it should be exactly the opposite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why not?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yes, the reason that we have not had another al-Qaeda-type, it was called an al-Qaeda Qaeda attack, but a fundamental Islamic suicide attack where they're yelling aloof bar and flying planes in the building, is it's very difficult for them to maintain the control, the indoctrination over the suicide bomber when they move them to a free society.
		The reason you see them in Israel all the time, in Pakistan all the time, and in India all the time, and in Indonesia all the time, and in Russia where they have so many Muslims all the time, is they're able to control the environment.
		They can't control the environment in America.
		We're making the kind of environment in America that will make it easier for them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Craig, hold it right there.
		Maybe they have.
		Wonder why it hasn't happened yet.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		Seasons don't feel the reaper.
		No, do the wind, the sun, or the rain.
		We can be like day on.
		Come on, baby.
		Don't feel the reaper.
		Baby, take my hand.
		Don't feel the reaper.
		We'll be able to fly.
		Don't feel the reaper.
		Baby, I'm your man.
		Don't feel the reaper.
		Baby, I'm your man.
		Jenny will speak.
		She always smile for the people she needs.
		On trouble it's dry.
		I don't know the way you can't ride.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
		Filling in for George, tonight's special guest host is Art Bell.
		To talk with Art, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		East of the Rockies, call 800-825-5033.
		And west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art by calling the AT ⁇ T International Operator and dialing toll-free, 800-893-0903.
		Now for George Norrie, special guest host, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a complicated, scary world we live in, and Craig Wynn is my guest.
		And we're talking about terrorists because he's talked to terrorists, went right into their lair, and literally interviewed them and knows some of the answers to some of the questions that I've wanted to know about.
		Why we went to war.
		Why we're occupying that country.
		What it is that many who believe in very fundamentalist Islamic principles believe about us that makes them want to dispatch us collectively.
		And what they'll do toward those goals.
		And I can't think of any issue in America right now more weighty than that.
		We'll get back to you.
		By the way, we're going to open the phone lines this hour, and you can ask any sort of question you want related to all of this.
		Stay right where you are.
unidentified		Stay right where you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
		Kind of ominous sound, isn't it?
		Kind of fits, really, when you're talking about what we're talking about.
		And I don't know how in America you can not talk about it.
		Things certainly have changed, haven't they, from prior to the war to the war to now the aftermath of the war, in which I believe more Americans have been killed, by the way, now in the period of time since combat has been called, was said to have halted.
		Now, I think we all know that terrorists of the type that you no doubt talked to in their lair are pouring into Iraq from all over the Middle East, probably from all over the world, I would think, as far away as Indonesia and, I suppose, the Philippines and who knows, Afghanistan, and wherever they are, they're making their way to Iraq now, aren't they?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		By the tens of thousands, and they're coming from all of those countries, plus Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia.
		In fact, the largest number of jihadists that we found in Afghanistan were actually from Kuwait, the country, of course, that we liberated were killing Americans.
		And literally from all over the Islamic world, they're coming for jihad because the only guaranteed way into this brothel that Allah speaks of in the Quran is to die a martyr killing infidels.
		That's the only guaranteed way in.
		By the way, so that we don't dissuade Muslims from doing so, Muhammad said that only 70,000 of his followers would be admitted into this paradise altogether.
		And there have been lots more than 70,000 Islamic martyrs.
unidentified		Paradise is full.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, stop killing.
		Paradise is full.
		Not worth it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So all you'd end up is in a big waiting line.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		You know, big waiting line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Look, I'm going to open up the phone line.
		I'd like to let some people ask you questions.
		All right, Craig?
		All right.
		Here they come.
		Well, Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Craig Wynn.
		Good morning.
		Hi, David.
unidentified		Pleasure.
unidentified		Can you hear me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just fine.
unidentified		Okay.
		I just want to do a quick recap by now.
		I'll take as little time as possible.
		To explain to you why we're in Iraq, we need to go back to Operation Northwoods.
		Are you familiar with Operation Northwoods?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Craig?
unidentified		No.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		I'm not familiar with it.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		No, we're not.
unidentified		Okay, Operation Northwoods was released by the Freedom of Information Act.
		it was during the candy administration and let's hear who is the chief of uh...
		you know general staff whatever i'm happy plan to create terrorism of the terrorism within america to play on the cubans and in it entails and you can get it it's it's even to to uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me, dear, to what end?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To create terrorism in America for what reason?
unidentified		He was hijacking airplanes.
		He wanted to hijack airplanes to crash into buildings to build fear amongst the Americans so that they would be happy, not happy is the word, but frightened enough to invade Cuba because Cuba was sending the enemy.
		Kennedy vetoed that idea.
		They also wanted to sabotage Glenn, I was going to say John Glenn's orbit around the Earth.
		So that's Operation Northwoods.
		It was resurrected by the neocons.
		And the reason being that Iraq was so high on the agenda, first of all, they went into Afghanistan.
		Now Karzai was with...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Slow up here a little bit.
unidentified		Okay, I just don't want to take too much time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What I want you to do is to get to the core of what you're trying to say.
unidentified		The core of this is that you asked your guest what speech would have been made.
		I have an idea for that, but not to take up too much time.
		I will just give you the facts that I have researched.
		And they are facts.
		They've been verified.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but nevertheless, my dear, why don't you, since we've got you, what would you, as president, have suggested we do versus what the president did?
unidentified		In terms of when he faced the nation the first time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct, yes.
unidentified		I would have stood in front of my American people, and I would have said, we have been dealt a very heavy blow, and we are grieving the loss of innocent people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think he did say that.
unidentified		Well, my text that I have of it was it was a little bit more on a...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		More or less.
unidentified		We're going to get those guys.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		More or less, he said that.
		Yes.
		What would you have recommended as a remedy is what I'm trying to get to here versus...
unidentified		Now, to get back to what your guest was saying, Osama bin Laden was a member of the CIA.
		He's also very close to the Bush family.
		Salam?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		I'm going to hold it right there.
		All right.
		Let me, instead of listening to her go down the path, I could hear her going now.
		There are a lot of people who think that our government, in some conspiratorial manner, is tied up with these actual operations, and somehow, in some way, secretly ordering these things to happen rather than trying to prevent them.
		They're actually behind them, I guess.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		That's utter nonsense.
		I mean, the fact of the matter is that if there was such a secret, it could not be held.
		Now, you are right.
		You've brought this up, and the fact is that America has routinely manufactured its own enemies.
		Our State Department runs on Shin Tzu's philosophy of the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
		When you do that, you always lose the high moral ground, and you manufacture your next enemy.
		And so, yes, we have done some terrible things as it relates to the Mujahideen that became al-Qaeda in Afghanistan when we thought they were fighting the Russians and we didn't like the Russians at that time.
		But to suggest that the United States is somehow involved in fundamentalist Islamic terror So that we train people to scream Allah U Akbar and fly planes into our buildings is utter nonsense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, there are many.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		That's not their motivation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But there are many people who believe that the government manufactures this in order to take away our precious freedoms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you believe that basically is utter nonsense.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		No, I've asked the terrorists themselves why they kill us, and I've spent 10,000 hours researching the scriptures that motivate them to kill, and no place do they say we follow the orders of the American CIA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Appreciate that.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Craig Wynn.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		This is Michael in Norfolk, Virginia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Michael.
unidentified		I've been listening to Craig all night.
		I heard him the last time he was on this show with George Norrie.
		I recorded the program and listened to it maybe a half dozen times.
		And the reason I did is because I think he offers the best obfuscation of anybody I've ever seen in the world.
		I mean, he is so brilliant at leading us down the wrong path, it's very difficult to penetrate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In what manner is he doing that?
unidentified		It's very difficult to penetrate his argument.
		The problem is this.
		Religion is the bottom line.
		We need a world forum that will settle the issue of religion once and for all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, but wait a wait.
		That's an interesting idea, which I have actually considered before.
		It really is an interesting idea.
		But when you have a religion which basically says all others of not of our religion are not to be met with and accommodated, but killed, now, when you have one group with that sort of attitude, that prevents the kind of summit that you'd like to put on.
unidentified		No, actually, I am convinced from my own contact with radical fundamentalists that you can entice them into a debate forum on the pride that they have in their God in a Elijah-type situation where he challenged the prophets of Baal.
unidentified		They will come to such a reasonable forum of debate and discussion to let the God who is God prove it and show that he is so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But since when do you negotiate with infidels?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe you could point me to the Quran where it says that.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		I can point you to the Quran where it says don't do that.
unidentified		Well, look.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's important, Paula.
		I mean, come on, that's important.
		You're suggesting something which I thought was interesting, but these people don't negotiate.
unidentified		They kill.
		They do negotiate.
		I know friends who negotiate with them in this manner.
		Christian friends who do it this way.
		Women who will not even wear sleeves on their dresses for their own husbands in the United States will go into Palestine dressing the way their women dress in order to be able to make a statement for peace, for their Christian peace movement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But what does that have to do with the price of tea in Palestine?
unidentified		No, they embrace any gesture of moral and cultural acceptance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, fine.
		But you see, Craig admits that a good 90 or 95 percent would be of the persuasion you're discussing.
		We're talking about a small percentage of fundamentalists who have, I will use the word interpreted, the Quran, in a way that suggests that infidels should simply be killed.
		Those are the folks that I'm talking about, Caller.
unidentified		Well, actually, the people, the 19 hijackers, when you read their diaries, were more concerned about how our women dress than anything else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, all right.
		Thank you very much.
		How about that, Craig?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Let me speak to several of those things.
		First is I am also an enemy of religion.
		I believe that religions are man-made constructs and that they do encourage people to go off into war.
		And that said, Christianity, nor is Judaism, neither are religions.
		The fact of the matter is that the Quran orders Muslims to wipe the non-Muslims out to the last.
		And therefore, it is impossible to negotiate.
		Also, the greatest example in the Quran and what all Muslims use when they negotiate with non-Muslims is the Treaty of Huda Bayah.
		That's where Muhammad went to Mecca two years before his death.
		He signed a 10-year peace treaty with them that said that I will not attack you.
		The following year, he came down with 10,000 troops and conquered the town.
		And so the Quran says that any treaty between a Muslim and a non-Muslim is not binding on the Muslim, and it sets the example that Muslims should use negotiations to weaken non-Muslims so that they can conquer them.
		That's the reality of Islam.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure it's reminiscent of the Cold War and what was said about communism, isn't it?
unidentified		Yes.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Now, also, one of the things that's interesting is the Quran orders Muslims not to engage in debate with non-Muslims.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		It tells them that if a person comes and is exposing the Quran who is a non-Muslim, that they are to flee from them and take their families from them and not engage them in discussion, for if they engage them in discussion, they become one of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the religious summit idea is a non-starter?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		It's a non-starter.
		The only people that would participate in such a discussion would be what the Quran defines as the hypocrites, the peaceful Muslims.
		And they don't represent the drive, the control mechanism of the religion.
		It's kind of like a bad Nazi and the Russian.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The participants probably would have a jihad declared against them.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		That is correct.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		They'd be killed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		On the way on where Sadat was killed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, with Craig Wynne.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		West of the Rockies?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's you.
unidentified		Yeah, Craig, last time I heard your interview, it was sobering and also courageous to go through this.
		I have A couple quick points.
		You know, I don't think that, you know, I think you're kind of hard on George Bush.
		I don't think that he could have said anything about their religion without alienating the whole world and not allowing us to go in there in the first place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He does have a point there.
unidentified		Also, I don't think circling an oil field is going to help.
		It's going to also alienate the whole world and make, especially whenever they're already part of the United Nations and considered a sovereign nation, not a private fiefdom or kingdom.
		And also stop there.
		Let's take these one or two.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, okay, but we'll get to it.
		Don't worry.
		Take a deep breath.
		That one's really important because that was your suggested remedy for this, that we surround the oil fields and act as though we were still holding on to the lease and had a right to be there, right?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, first, I recognize that it would take tremendous courage on George Bush's part to expose the truth about the fundamentalists and the direct link between fundamental Islam and terrorism.
		But if you're going to commit hundreds of billion dollars of taxpayers' money and you're going to commit the lives of the best men and women in your country, you owe it to them to tell them the truth.
		And if you don't, if you're not willing, you don't have the courage to tell them the truth, then don't go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then what a lot of people say, Craig, that it's all about oil?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're right.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is, but it's all about oil for only one reason, not for the reasons they think.
		It's all about oil only to keep the oil money from manufacturing terrorists.
		Listen, we're going to be able to get a little bit more.
unidentified		You know, Saddam Hussein supported terrorists in Palestine.
		You said they're all part of the same group, okay?
		I think they've got problems.
		Obviously, they're not getting enough because they need to get it after they die.
		I mean, they can be re-educated somehow.
		Your solution, I appreciate it, it's not going to work, unfortunately, but I appreciate what you're doing.
		Thank you.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		By the way, I agree.
		It's not what I'm suggesting.
		America doesn't have the courage to do.
		But understand that what we put ourselves in is a situation that if we continue to send a billion dollars over there a day, we are only paying for our own funeral.
		And so we have some very hard choices to make.
		And if we don't at least stop that billion dollars a day, then the future, the likelihood of America losing a major city is in the 99 percentile.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to put that up to an inevitability.
		In other words, because much as I like the gung-ho sound of your solution, it ain't going to happen.
		Yes, so then, okay, so the money will keep flowing.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		That's correct, and we're going to pay for our own funeral, and we're going to die.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		That's what's going to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		First time caller align, you're on the air with Craig Wynn.
		Hello.
		Hello there.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air.
unidentified		Revolving around what you said, Craig, most of it is true.
		There's a lot of half-truths, so it's not filled in.
		What you said about Adolf Hitler is correct.
		Most of it, the jihads, they have their books.
		Someone implanted wrong information for them to control the world.
		They're not stupid.
		You know, the Ottoman Empire is a continuation of Istanbul and Constantinople.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did Craig say that you could just call it a half-truth?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of what he said was half-truth, you said.
unidentified		There are a lot of things you're saying about the jihad.
		They're fanatical.
		All they dream about is a paradise.
		Yeah.
		You know, sending around money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, so then what did he say?
		He said that.
		He said that.
unidentified		then how's it a half-truth There are three different divisions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John Wayne?
unidentified		John Wayne, listen to this.
		I mean, Otto Preminger and Sammy Davis Jr. were in my dreams tonight.
		They woke me up, you know, from the afterworld.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, I think we're going to leave it right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		i can't handle it i'm not exactly sure where he was headed but uh...
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		There's only five books that were written about Muhammad, who's Islam's lone prophet, and the creation of Islam within 250 years of the Prophet's death.
		Only five books.
		Four of them are Sunnah, collections of hadith.
		The other one is the Quran.
		Everything that I have said comes directly out of those books, and that's what I want more than anything else.
		I want all of the peaceful, loving, wonderful Muslims in the world to read those books.
		And I want every American to read those books.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you said any half-truths, I'd like to know what they are.
		I don't think I've heard any I can identify that way yet.
		I appreciate anybody else who really thinks that's true and can actually name one.
		Otherwise, I defy you to suggest what Craig has said isn't so.
unidentified		Be right back.
		I can feel it coming in the air tonight.
		Oh, Lord.
		And I've been waiting for this over my life.
		Oh, Lord.
		Can you feel it coming in the air tonight?
		Oh, Lord.
		Don't you love the baby?
		Don't you think it's bad?
		Don't you love her ways?
		Tell me what you say.
		Don't you love her, Matthew?
		Want to be her daddy?
		Don't you love her face?
		Don't you love her as she's walking out the door?
		Like she did one thousand times before.
		Don't you love her ways?
		Tell me what you say.
		Don't you love her as she's walking out the door?
		All your love.
		All your love is gone.
		To sing a lonely song.
		Of a dream of dream.
		Seven horses seem to be on the mark.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
		Filling in for George, tonight's special guest host is Art Bell.
		To talk with Art, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		East of the Rockies, call 800-825-5033.
		And west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art by calling the AT ⁇ T International Operator and dialing toll-free, 800-893-0903.
		Now for George Norrie, special guest host, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think all of this tonight boils down to the most important thing he told us tonight, which was that if this percentage of Islamics believes as we have discussed this day, then the future and one of our cities or more is inevitable.
		Absolutely inevitable.
		Particularly given the only course we could follow to stop that.
		At least I think that's what I'm getting out of this.
		My guest is Craig Wynn.
		If you have questions for him, you're welcome to ask, and that's done via the telephone.
		We'll be right back.
		Craig Wynn, my guest, a very controversial point of view, a very controversial point of view, and one you will not hear generally in the American media.
		Now, I want to reiterate, for those of you that are getting your pants all in a bunch out there, he's not suggesting that all of Islam is this way.
		In fact, quite the contrary, he said, about 95%.
		If they read the Quran and other religious texts the way the 5% who buy them straight down the line or in the manner those people do did, they would simply walk away from Islam.
		Now, that may or may not be so, and that's certainly the crux of the controversy this morning.
		It's a pretty harsh truth you're listening to, if it is true.
		So I would hope some of you would have questions along those lines.
		Craig, you still there?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		I sure am.
		You know, after I wrote Tea With Terrorist, which almost everything that I predicted would happen has happened, so many of the readers of Tea with Terrorists wrote me and say, you know, great explanation of what's going wrong here in America and this war on terrorism.
		But those five books that you talk about, they're hard to buy.
		They're hard to understand.
		Could you write something that takes the scriptures from those five books, puts them together in a way that we might understand what this doctrine actually says about itself?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Makes sense, yeah.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		And so I wrote a book called Prophet of Doom that I'll release here in probably another four or five weeks.
		It's in its final editing stage right now, that takes these four books of Sunnah, these collections of hadith, and puts them together with the Quran, reorders the Quran so it's in chronological order, infuses it with the context that it otherwise lacks, and explains it, just like the first translator, so Mein Kampf, said, here's what Hitler has to say.
		But every time he said something that was untrue, it held Hitler accountable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I've actually taken all of these scriptures and put them together in one book and said, there was another guy who did something just like this, you know, and he got put on a list, a hit list, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Aren't you all concerned about that?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was Salman Rushney.
		What Salman Rushney wrote was satanic verses.
		Now, satanic verses happens to be a very important part of the Islamic hadith.
		Hadith speaks about satanic verses.
		It speaks about Muhammad giving a Quran verse that was from Satan, and the Quran itself speaks about the satanic verses.
		The reason that they put the fatwa on him was twofold.
		One is Muslims don't want the truth about their scriptures exposed because, as I've said, if people actually read the truth about what Muhammad did and said as it's recorded in their scripture, there wouldn't be any Muslims left.
		The second thing is that Talmud was a Muslim, and so Muslims are ordered in the Quran that any Muslim who rejects his faith must be killed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, so why aren't you worried?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		I'm not a Muslim.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we all know they're going after both Muslim and non-Muslims.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, the bottom line is what I'm doing, I recognize, puts my life at risk.
		Exactly.
		However, I am absolutely willing to lay down my life if I can save millions.
		And those millions include Muslims.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're sure it's that brave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're sure it's that great.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm positive.
		In fact, you are an extremely enlightened man.
		In fact, if there were more people with the levers of public opinion like yourself who were willing to engage in a discussion on this, the single most important issue of our day, the issue that's ultimately going to destroy America, then we could prevail.
		But because we won't, I am one of the few voices willing to expose Islam.
		I will gladly lay down my life to make I, Americans and Muslims alike, aware of the truth so that we might save some from this hellish future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's see you, Sammy Davis awake now.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Welcome back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
unidentified		We've missed you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		And wouldn't you know you'd have a wonderful program on tonight?
		And I just want to congratulate this, Mr. Wynn.
		What was the name of his book, again, that's going to be coming up?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Prophet of Doom is the book I've written after T. With Harris.
		T. With Harris is a voyage of discovery that takes you right through the meetings I had with al-Qaeda and the like and takes you through the voyage of discovery, literally, that I went on in a novel form so that there's a story that takes you right through the learning experience, if you will.
		And Prophet of Doom is quite a tome.
		It's all five of the Islamic holy books put together with a running commentary.
unidentified		Wonderful.
		Well, I wanted to say a friend of mine is reading a book called Treason, and I think you probably know about that one.
		Yes.
		And culture, is it?
		Yes.
		But what I'm concerned about is I think the press is very controlled.
		I know we're not getting the news correctly.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's not actually controlled, but the press all belongs to they share a common sense that's part of this religion of political incorrectness, if you will.
unidentified		Right.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		And because if you step an inch outside of the circle of political correctness, you are publicly ostracized, kicked, raped by all these tolerant practitioners of political correctness.
		You become yesterday's news if you are in the mainstream media and you step outside of their circle.
		And so it's not so much a conspiracy or an organ.
		It's just if you want to prevail in the mainstream media, you've got to play by their rules.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, you haven't just stepped out of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've taken a giant leap.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but you know, I don't have an axe to grind.
		I didn't have any motivation here.
		I've got nothing to gain.
		I'm just an average guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, but you do have a lot to lose.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have a lot to lose.
		I have nothing to gain.
		Actually, I have nothing to lose.
		What can they do?
		They can take my life.
unidentified		Yes.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		And if they take my life, they're going to hurry me on to heaven.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		He is no fool that gives that which he cannot hope to keep to gain that which he can never lose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do believe in heaven, then?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I work for Yahweh.
		Yahweh is the God of the Bible.
		I went on this mission because he asked me to.
		I volunteered because he asked me.
		It would have taken more courage not to go than to go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That must be a story in itself.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		I have no preconceived notions.
		When I went over, I went over to find the truth.
		And when I came back, I came back to report the truth.
		And all I want to do is to save my country from Islamic terror.
		And the best way to do that, by the way, is to save Muslims from Islam.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Craig, why should we not imagine that you were predisposed because of your own religious point of view?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Well, certainly, first, I'm not religious at all.
		I have a relationship with the Creator.
		That's really all that Christianity really is.
		Yeah, that's fine.
		In Tea with Terrorists and again in Prophet of Doom, I don't ever say, this is my opinion because I think this.
		All I do is I read and report what their scriptures say, what the terrorists themselves say.
		And so you can make up your own mind.
		So I'm not sharing with you my interpretation.
		I'm not sharing with you my view.
		I'm sharing with you specifically what their scriptures say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, good enough.
		I am what they said.
		All right.
		Wild Hardline, you're on there with Craig Wynn.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		Hi, Craig.
		Hi.
		Would we both, all three of us, agree that the most accurate book of prophecy would be the Bible?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		And the Muslims do believe in Christ.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, no, no.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		You have to be really careful there.
unidentified		They believe that Christ was a great prophet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on, ma'am.
		I guess I want to specify one thing.
		Ma'am, listen to me.
		I don't know if I agree with that.
		So please don't include me, but proceed with the conversation.
unidentified		All right.
		All right.
		I'm just saying that the Quran, they have a belief in Christ, that Christ was a great prophet, and that he will return.
		That he was no more special, but yet he's the only one who returns.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		They don't believe he's going to return.
		No, they have Christ.
		First, they allamasize him.
		Christ is destroyed in the Quran.
		Literally destroy him.
		And they destroy the Gospels.
		They destroy his message.
		They say he was not crucified, and yet they say he was resurrected.
		It's the most odd thing in the world.
		And they say that Christ himself has devised a plot against all of those who called him the Messiah, and that he will personally judge and punish all of those who call him the Messiah.
unidentified		Oh, interesting.
		Yeah.
		But I do find the Koran very hypocritical because they say that they follow Christ's teachings, There's not a single one of Christ's teachings in the Quran.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Not a single one of his teachings is in the Quran.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Not one.
unidentified		The Bible itself says that there's going to be a false prophet in the end days that will turn one-third of the heads on the earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are many who could compare some general principles and morals dispensed in the Bible and the Quran and find similarities.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Actually, what happens is that about two-thirds of the Quran is based upon a twisted version of the Talmud, particularly the Talmud as it does a commentary on the Torah.
		And Muhammad had these scriptures read to him.
		The Quran says by Jews.
		He paid the Jews for them.
		He twisted them to serve his interests.
		And so many of the stories, although they're twisted, are common, although beyond the fact that there's common characters, there is nothing, in terms of the moral lessons, there is nothing in common.
		The God of the Quran and the God of the Bible are polar opposites.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're no friend of religion, huh?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm no friend of religion.
		I think religion has done a lot to harm man.
		But, you know, for the atheists listening out there, the religions of man, communism, has killed more people in the last hundred Years than any of the false religions have.
		I believe that the Bible is the word of Yahweh, and I do think it is a prophetic book.
		As a matter of fact, the Bible itself predicts that all of the Islamic nations are going to join together, and they're going to wage war against Israel in the last days, and that as a result of that war, five out of every six Muslims are going to die, and another, totally one-quarter of the Earth's population is wiped out in that war.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think this prophecy is accurate?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		You know, the Bible's gotten the first 2,000 prophecies that it's made precisely accurate, and it's got another 500 to go that speak of these last days.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		I certainly wouldn't bet against it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, according to what you said tonight, both publications would seem to agree with regard to the end, wouldn't they?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		Actually, what's interesting is that the Quran itself talks about the Gog and Magog war, which is the World War III that's discussed in the Bible that follows a land for peace treaty with Israel, where the Islamic nations then, following that treaty, they use it like Huda Bayah, and they come in and attack Israel.
		The Quran itself references this Gog and Magog war.
		So both books predict what's called the day of doom, but one is based, as I say, on the other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe they're both right.
		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Craig Wynn.
		Good morning.
		Hello.
		Going once.
		Going twice.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		I can hear him, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you there?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I can hear him, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, go ahead.
unidentified		Can you hear me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I've got you.
unidentified		Greg, you or Dr. Bob Mulray said that a billion dollars would be spent out of Saudi Arabia in the United States to spread the Muslim religion, and this is two ways, by building mosques and educating prisoners and United States prisoners to be disciples.
		And if that is the case, how will the millions of illegal immigrants in the United States play a role in terrorizing the United States?
		And what role are they doing in federal penitentiaries?
		Is it the militant Muslims that they're educating or which branch?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Well, 80% of the mosques in America are funded by and staffed by the Fahd Family Foundations, which the Quran that I read from on jihad is a quotation out of that.
		The reason they go into prisons is they find a very ideal audience.
		The Quran says that booty is lawful and good, and it says that killing non-Muslims is good.
		And so if thievery is good and killing is good, and you get babes in paradise if you die, and you get to keep the booty if you live, you know, Islam is a pretty seductive religion if you're going into a prison.
unidentified		What about the millions of illegal immigrants?
unidentified		And when these guys get out of penitentiary, what kind of threat do they pose to us?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Well, fairly significant.
		But it's my view that the majority of the problem we'll face from the fundamentalists is not in America, because in America it's really hard to maintain that level of hatred and indoctrination.
		And so I think that what you'll see is that there'll be situations where a cell of guys come in like they did in 9-11, and they will, this next time I think they'll come in either with a biological weapon, a thermonuclear device, or a radiological dispersion device.
		And you'll see very few people kill a lot of people in a grand act of martyrdom.
unidentified		What is this fourth political reason you mentioned?
unidentified		my radio faded out while ago the main reason we went to political reasoning it I want to reiterate, which.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Yes, the fourth reason that any country goes to war is because it serves the politicians' interest.
		And in this particular case, being a wartime president made George Bush very popular.
		He took his approval ratings up to 90%.
		And Karl Rove knew that he could regain control of the Senate if he had a wartime president.
		And he did exactly that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to give you a chance, because we're at the end of the program, to go ahead and, you know, if somebody were to start out with Craig Wynn, fascinated by what they heard tonight, wanting to know the truth, willing to read one of your books, which one ought to be first?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would read Tea With Terrace because the most pressing issue is this threat that we face as a nation and as a world.
		And they can buy Tea With Terrace at Amazon.com.
		It would probably be the best place to go.
		And if they wish to contact me, they can contact me at www.teawitherris.com.
		There's a lot on the book there.
		I think In the Company of Good and Evil would be an interesting read if people want to understand what's going wrong with corporate America.
		And Prophet of Doom won't be out for another probably six weeks.
		But when it is, that's for people who are very serious, who are willing to sit down and say, I'm not going to trivialize this thing.
		I want to know everything.
		I want to know everything their scriptures say from creation all the way through terror.
		I want it put in order.
		I want all five books brought together.
		I really want to understand what this doctrine itself teaches.
		And that'll be Prophet of Doom when it's out here in about six weeks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's what that book will do for people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's easily reasonable without studying all of those texts.
unidentified		Oh, what I did is I wrote it so that you have to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you declare it an objective presentation?
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Half of the book is their scriptures.
		And I don't just footnote their scriptures.
		I say, this is from al-Tabati.
		This is from Bukhari.
		This is the Quran.
		I give you the page number that it comes from in each of these five books.
		And then I put their quotation in a bold text.
		So you get to read their quotation.
		And then to make it easier for folks, I do a rumming commentary, but I do mine in a different font so you can distinguish between them that tries to walk the reader through this.
		Like we were just having a conversation on the radio.
		That's the role the narrator plays.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I got you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Craig, thank you for being here.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man, I'm so happy that you're back.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		And thank you for caring enough to expose this issue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have a good night.
craig winn ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bye.
unidentified		Bye, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that should give you a lot to think about.
		Craig Wynn.
		Tomorrow night, we're going to do Open Lines.
		Now, I'm open to anything you want to talk about, anything at all.
		In fact, I'm so open to suggestions that I'm suggesting you email me with your idea.
		I wanted to get this show done tonight because, well, because I feel very strongly about it.
		I don't know if everything you just heard is part of the phrase gospel or not, but it should make you think.
		I suppose that's what we're here for.
		We'll do some more of that tomorrow night.
		Well, first hour, we will have a guest, by the way, on crop circles and a crop circle that may have been hidden by a government.
		There's a lot to be said about that.
		Maybe we'll talk about crop circles tomorrow night.
		Whatever it is, I'm Art Bell at MindSpring.com or Art Bell at AOL.com.

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