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June 27, 2003 - Art Bell
02:50:31
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - The Hutchison Effect - John Hutchison
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From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening.
Good morning.
Good afternoon.
Whatever time of day it may be, wherever you are across this great globe of ours, covered quite readily by this incredible program called Coast to Coast AM.
I'm Art Bell, filling in for George Norrie, who's on vacation.
Thank you, George.
Have a good time.
Hope you're getting relaxed and batteries recharged and ready to rock on Monday.
And of course, Premier Radio Networks, that allows me to sit in this old seat of mine, twisted as I may be.
It's great to be here.
Now, uh, a quick look at the news.
Linda Moldenhau coming up in a moment.
Quite a story.
In fact, you might want to make your way over to earthfiles.com, where some of the photographs supporting the incredible stuff you're about to see can be seen.
A gunman shot a U.S.
soldier in the neck.
As he browsed the Baghdad market on Friday, and American forces accidentally killed an 11-year-old boy.
Part of a vicious cycle of Iraqi attacks, and even tougher U.S.
crackdowns on resistance.
And it goes on.
We're meeting a lot of resistance, and we will continue to.
And every day I ask myself, why?
Why we have the war?
Why we're nation-building?
And how we just can't stop thanking these Iraqis for that wonderful thank you they've given us every day.
Striking back against, this is a happier topic, striking back against telemarketers for countless interrupted meals, whatever the interruptus was, the public poured an avalanche, literally, of discontent into the new national Do Not Call List Friday, Registering actually more than 735,000 telephone numbers, including mine, by the way, on the first day.
This is an I-don't-call-me registry.
Don't call me.
Don't you even think about calling my telephone number, current registry, and I join right away.
Hey, always hit dinner time.
Right on the noggin, boy, you sit down.
And there's this pause.
Hello, I'm Jerry Frank, you know, that kind of thing.
Everybody gets them right.
Well, now there's a registry and you can sign it.
Presumably, after some point, if they call you anyway, even after you've registered, then they're in trouble.
Wouldn't that be nice?
Eleven men, nine of them incredibly, to me, US citizens, were charged with conspiring to join a Muslim extremist terror group that's been blamed for thousands of deaths.
In the disputed Kashmir territory of Indian Pakistan, that American citizens would be part of this is just, to me, incredible.
Three teens, who authorities say were apparently playing with fireworks, were charged Friday with starting one of the two wildfires that burned along the Rio Grande north of downtown and drove hundreds of people from their homes near Albuquerque.
So that's kind of the news as it is.
You know, in all the years that I've been doing this kind of a program, and it's a lot of years now, there are two things, well there are more, but there are two things that certainly stand out as anomalous then, anomalous all the years I've done this, anomalous now.
It's impossible for me to believe that with all the crop circles and all the animal mutilations that we've seen, That nobody has ever been charged.
Ever!
Not a soul caught and prosecuted.
Even caught, as far as I know, nobody!
Nobody!
Now, before you write this off as, well, you know, people playing pranks and that sort of thing, it's just not possible.
Look at the crop circles, look at the animal mutilations.
It is the most outstandingly, continually anomalous stuff on the face of the globe.
And that's what Linda Moulton Howe reports on.
She's a science reporter, has been for years for the program, an investigator and all sort of matters of high strangeness.
Winner of quite a number of awards for documentaries on our ecology, an author times several.
she's really something and She goes out and does you know does a hard science in these
areas and she's coming up if you'll just stay right where you are
If you have done as I have suggested and you go on to earth files calm there you will see a
anomalous photograph.
It's an anonymous, apparently, I don't know, 17-year-old or something, young man, who took the digital image you see at the top of the page, first one.
It was taken with a new cell phone.
They've got them over there already, and we're just getting them to take digital photographs.
And it was near Montenegro, Italy.
Next morning, Beneath this, it looks like, I don't know, it looks like a plasma ball in the clouds, for lack of a better description.
With a distinctly different color, a laser beam quality coming straight down to Earth, the clouds in the area are illuminated.
Pretty incredible.
Pretty incredible.
Even more so, next morning, three circles in a line of varying sizes were discovered in Montenegro.
Wheatfield there.
Now that's how anomalous all of this is.
Here from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania with that and a lot more is Linda Moulton Howe.
Linda?
Thanks Art.
I tell you this year of 2003 is beginning to remind me of 1991 when crop formations were reported worldwide in at least 23 countries back then.
Already, by the end of June this year, 30 crop formations have been discovered in Germany, including on that very remote isle of Rügen, where very little can be seen unless it's from the air.
And that's more than England, which now has 23.
And there have been 14 in Italy.
This is the first time that country has ever had so many.
And so complex.
Okay, so it's a really hot time in the wheat fields.
How many people this year have been caught doing it?
I don't know that anybody has been caught per se.
There were a couple of commercials that were done in Wiltshire, but what you're going to be hearing tonight are the reasons why that the patterns that I'm going to be talking about, what's been happening in Italy, And many other countries do not fit in the hoax category.
It has to do with lack of tracks, the inability to find any holes at the center of something that is a circle, because you can't lay down a perfect circle if you were doing it, unless you have some kind of a guide from the center out.
In other words, no forensic evidence.
That's right.
We're going to be in the area of what are truly the mysterious and the remarkable formations, and Italy At the top of this year's list, many of the fields there do not have tramlines.
Some do, some don't.
And in Italy, there have been these thick, thick carpets of thick wheat in which some of these formations have been sort of plunked down.
And when they've been discovered, there have been no tracks.
And this, I'm going to be talking just in a moment about this extraordinary sphere, ball of light, plasma, whatever it is with this beam.
But, just to give a kind of continued overview, the United States, which you aren't hearing about much at all, has had at least ten formations, and most have not even been photographed from the air for reasons that have ranged from bad weather to people saying they didn't have money for an airplane.
Where have the majority in this country been, Linda?
They've been ranging from Missouri to Arkansas, Western Pennsylvania reports, Maryland is probably the place where they have had the most, at least eight according to a reporter working for the Star Democrat out of Easton and this started in mid-May and I talked with another reporter today and he says that they are still getting reports that in barley and wheat fields along a several mile stretch of road the people have been seeing ovals and the reporter from Easton
Back in mid-May had told me that he had gone into several of these and that one of them reminded him of a zigzag.
And a zigzag is not, you can't say it was because there was rain or something like that.
It had a kind of a form to it and straight lines.
And this is coming from reporters who've gone out into Maryland.
And so that is a big question mark, but a minimum of at least eight patterns there in down in Louisiana.
They've had reports there.
And what we need are aerial photos.
And I've sent faxes out to airports and all these places, hoping a pilot would get up and take photos.
But it's been a real challenge, except for one spectacular First fractal ever in the United States that occurred in Noble, Arkansas this year.
And I'll be talking about that in the second half hour tonight.
And we'll hear, I think it's the only interview for radio that the farmer ever gave.
Perhaps whoever's doing this, Linda, doesn't think much of the math skills of people in this country.
Maybe.
The first fractal, huh?
Yep.
Or there's an evolution to all of this in a mathematical language around the world that none of us have understood yet.
Well, that's going to be my big question to you when we're done with this report.
All right.
Well, joining all of this is Holland.
Holland now has three formations near the village of Hoeven that's been famous over the years for crop circles and mysterious lights.
Switzerland is now reporting three formations.
Poland is reporting two.
France, Australia, and Belgium are each reporting one formation, including this spectacular formation of June 22nd that matches so closely to the Gog Magog Hills formation in Cambridge, England that was discovered on July 25th, 2001, just six weeks before September 11th.
just six weeks before September 11th.
And many British locals referred to that back then as an angel because it had 75 thin rays
that emanated from this very beautiful circle and ring.
And the difference in Belgium is that there are 54 thin rays instead of 75.
And the diameter of the New Belgium pattern is smaller than the 2001 English formation.
And these mathematical differences, again, are things that people wish they understood if there is a
significance.
And the question, why would this specific pattern that was at Gog Magog, that we associate with nothing but war and violence written in ancient literature, why would this be the pattern that reoccurs now?
And why in Belgium?
But we will hear from a researcher who went to the farmer and heard firsthand how amazing the lay of this crop was.
No tracks.
And learn that neighbors heard a very strange and loud humming sound in the night before the formation was discovered by the farmer in the morning.
Now, we're going to start with Italy because of this extraordinary photograph that has been taken.
Montenegro, what everybody should be looking at right now.
Yes, it really is fascinating.
Montenegro, as they say, is in central Italy near the Adriatic Sea.
And this photograph was taken about two kilometers outside of Monte Granero.
There were three teenage boys and they were walking along a field.
It was about 5.30 in the afternoon.
You know, I just realized I slaughtered that.
I looked down at the sky.
It is Monte Granero, Italy.
And they said they were absolutely, these young men, were astonished to see a sphere of light appear And send a thin beam down into the crop.
And one of the teenagers had one of these new cell phones.
I've got a photograph of it in tonight's report about Italy, so people can see this new cell phone that has this little, it's like a built-in camera.
And he took two frames.
Well, Adriano Forgione, he's the editor of Hera Magazine in Rome, and he's a very good friend of Montegonero's mayor.
And the mayor called him up and told him that he knew that there was this young man who had gotten this photograph, or a couple of them.
So the editor, Adriano Forgione, called this young man and went to see him, saw the images in the phone's little viewer, and got one of the images and sent me the one that I now have posted at the top of earthfiles.com On the top of the headlines page and it's also in tonight's report that you can get to by clicking on click on this report for the Italian report.
And this week I talked with Adriano about the sphere of light emitting this beam and what crop formations were discovered afterward.
They saw this ball of light glowing in the ground and it created what they told me.
This Polaroid created these light beams to the ground, but no crop was made.
Nothing was set on the ground.
Only this light beam.
He did two pictures.
He gave me only one.
But I saw this picture on his phone.
It's impossible to make a fake with a phone.
I can tell you.
For me, it's an original witness.
Yes, and there certainly have been a lot of descriptions around the world of people seeing spheres of light that have extended beams out from spheres to other spheres or down to the ground, like this photograph.
And then, that next morning in Montegrenero, there are the three... We found the deformation, yes.
Three circles.
And then, that night in Montegrenero, that night of June 8th, There was sightings of some blue and white balls of light in the sky.
There was a scramble for military jets.
And in the morning of 9th of June, there was a crop, a single circle in a crop field in Potenza Pichina.
And that Potenza Pichina circle was in the area where people had seen those blue and white lights and the jet was scrambled?
Yes, yes.
It's the same place.
Some military that was gone inside the circle.
Also, carabinieri and police.
The police went inside of the Potenza Ficina circle?
Yes, yes.
In the night, there was helicopters, there was jets, and the people saw these lights.
Now, these kinds of beams of light, ...have been linked in England and Germany to crop circles before, as well as, you've heard me do reports with you on COAST many times, Art, where military, whether helicopters or jets, show up because locals will call up, in some cases, just like they did in Italy and report that they're seeing something unusual in a crop farm.
Or, this is what nobody ever fully understands, is there something about this phenomenon that triggers something?
Either in a magnetic field or other that governments monitor and then helicopters and jets show up.
Well, Linda, these are formed by some sort of probably microwave radiation or some kind of electromagnetic spectrum radiation forms these no matter what source is and that would have, that would radiate beyond the immediate area and it may well be the military is able to detect a massive emission of whatever sort of radiation it is, and is responding to that.
Right, and W.C.
Levengood, the biophysicist who studied this for such a long time, he has that hypothesis that the energy system is a spinning plasma vortex that contains microwave energies.
And depending upon the size of that, and depending upon the speed of that vortex, it could affect magnetic fields that could also perhaps be monitored.
And in fact we'll hear something from him about that in the next half hour.
Linda, this photograph appears to show what you might as well call a plasma ball either above or consistent and in the clouds and then something coming down.
It could easily be the and obviously I would say is the energy source for whatever is doing this and that would be detectable over quite quite a distance and that could cause military response especially these days.
Yeah and What exactly are these lights?
These mysterious lights that in some countries they were referred to as plasmas?
Well, this week I talked with Andreas Mueller, who produces the International Cross Circle Archive and contributes to the excellent German website, invisiblecircle.com.
At the bottom of my reports tonight, I have all of the links to all of the great websites, including this wonderful German website, And Andreas has been doing a lot of the surveys in the field now for five or six years.
He's very familiar.
He sees and meets a lot of people.
And he told me that there has been an extraordinary eyewitness in Germany this year who wants to remain anonymous, doesn't want publicity.
But Andreas told me what happened.
The interesting thing is that he saw or he described the very same thing that we had Described by an eyewitness from 1997.
And it was that of unnatural, what he saw, this light phenomenon coming out of the ground and it was behind a tree.
What description did he make of the light in terms of its size and the color?
It was orange.
And it was, he said that it looked like somehow Like as if a car was stuck into the ground and the headlights were beaming up into the sky.
But this was in a complete rural area.
He went there and there was later nothing.
You know, there was no car parking or there are no disco beamers or anything.
So it was in the complete nowhere.
So these were beams of orange light?
Yes.
And then the next day, how far away was the crop formation found?
The formation was exactly in the area where the light came from, but because the trees were in between him and the light, he's not 100% sure that this came from the very same spot, but it wasn't in 97 very similar.
There was also a bunch of trees in between, but it is like, yeah, one can say it was at least very close to the spot where the new formations had formed.
And as we move past the bottom of the half hour into the next segment, we will hear some more comments from England, from Belgium, and the United States on extraordinary formations there.
All right.
All right, Linda, hold tight, and we'll be right back to you.
It seems to me that Linda, more than anybody that we interview, has investigated crop circles, I mean really poured into it scientifically, and she should have an opinion, wouldn't you think, on what they mean.
Or maybe even just a good educated guess, but that's the question I'd like to ask overall after all these years and all these formations.
What the hell do they mean?
Maybe as Ed Dame said, it's obvious what they mean.
It means goodbye crops from the high desert.
I'm Art Bell.
Like she did one thousand times before.
Don't you love her ways?
Tell me what you say.
Don't you love her as she's walking out the door?
All your love, all your love, all your love, all your love, all your love is gone
A single lonely song of a deep blue dream Seven horses seem to be on the morn
Premier Radio Networks presents Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
And now, filling in for George, here's special guest host, Art Bell.
Special.
I like that.
Hi everybody, Linda Walthouse here.
We're talking about crop circles tonight.
She investigates crop circles, animal mutilations, all kinds of high strangeness, but crop circles are the focus.
tonight and in a moment I've got quite a question for Lyndal.
You know, there are a lot of these circles that when you look at them, when you study
them and look at, you know, the described dimensions and all the rest of it and you
just simply concentrate on them for a while, it's obvious.
Humans did not do this.
Now, perhaps the Earth did, perhaps aliens did, perhaps a force that we do not yet understand did, but humans did not.
Clearly, in a lot of cases, humans did not.
I think that's something almost everybody can agree on who, even in a surface kind of way, studies this phenomenon.
But the big question, of course, is, and this is what I want to ask you, Linda, is what, in your opinion, and or best guess, what do they mean?
I wish I could give a definitive bottom line answer.
Since you can't, best guess.
Well, it's as complex as they are.
And by that I mean, we know that there are the common links of this strange, mysterious light to them.
And they have been there and seen and videotaped over formations since the formations began being reported intensively in the modern age, like around 1990.
And we're at 2003.
And many people have wondered if they had something to do with the geopolitical Situation, the environment situation, something having to do with the dynamics between humans on the Earth.
And that really, I guess, jumped out at me when I saw the extraordinary aerial photograph taken of this most recent Belgium formation that looks so identical, really, to the Magog Hills angel of July 25, 2001, three years ago.
And that was in Cambridge.
This new one in Belgium is near a place called Dingolom.
And it is in a place where they've never had any formations ever before.
This is absolutely brand new.
Have you ever considered the power of consciousness?
Yes.
Many people say that when they've meditated or thought about a particular pattern, That they will find in a day or two or a week later in the field, whether it's England or someplace else, that a pattern comes into the field that's close to what they were contemplating on.
You see, that would relate it to geopolitical events, all kinds of events that catch the attention of everybody, and fire up a lot of consciousness on that particular subject.
And so that we would see that displayed in that manner, if indeed that's the causative agent.
Well, and when it comes to Gog Magog, when you go back, whether you're dealing with biblical literature or any archaeological efforts to understand what Gog and Magog may have been, you find that it is always linked to war.
And it is always linked to war in what we would consider to be the area of Iran, Iraq, and Turkey.
Those are the geographic areas.
And the sense of the history of those particular locations have always been linked also to something apocalyptic, meaning either the end of something in a gigantic war or certainly a gigantic change.
Well, it's the cradle of humanity, so where it began, so shall it end.
Right, but God made God specifically linked to war, and July 25th, 2001 was about five or six weeks before September 11th.
And after September 11th, the world changed forevermore, and it is eerie to me that now, in what would be on June 15th, that This beautiful formation, it is extraordinarily beautiful, but it is also linked to the words Gog Magog, and that formation came before that one terrible event.
Could this be anticipating yet another world event?
And these are the kinds of thoughts and conversations that many of us have who have tried to answer that question you were just raising.
What could these symbols mean?
I think there's also the issue of mathematical relationships.
Most of the geometry people, including now deceased Gerald Hawkins, God rest his soul, a brilliant man, astronomer and mathematician who gave some wonderful insights into the geometries of the crop formations and concluded that based on the geometries alone that he was studying as a mathematician, That he was encountering an intellectual profile, those were the words he used, that was beyond normal human geometry understanding.
In other words, it forced him to discover new theorems in geometry.
And that doesn't still say, that does not still say, what are these, but it leads us back to the issue of the small balls of light That Robert Vandebroucke, the young man in Holland, has said for the last five or six years that he thinks are angels.
Then you are back to the question of what does that mean?
And what would another dimension mean?
And how could another dimension, another frequency, interact with the growing crops of this planet in this seasonal way?
And to what end?
If it is a mathematical language, does it have something to do with its vested interest in the planet?
Or are there events upcoming in time that these crop formations may actually be trying to avert some kind of destructive future?
There are many people who think that may be part of what's going on, even if we don't understand it.
And I thought it would be interesting just to hear briefly from Andy Thomas, who edits World News in England and has written the wonderful book, Vital Signs.
It's now out in the United States.
And he has kind of an overview of the Mysterious Lights.
Okay, good.
Anything in the Sussex area of people seeing Mysterious Lights?
Not this year, but in previous years we have had reports.
Now, the Thumping Formation we had this year was on exactly the same spot as we had a formation the year before.
And the formation we had last year, there were two children who claim, and we, you know, They didn't appear to be making this up, taking us for riders.
They're pretty serious about it.
It was a boy and his step-sister.
Or his half-sister, I should say.
They were aged about 12 or so.
And they say that on the night that formation appeared, they were actually woken up by a bright light over the field coming through the curtains.
Now, that field is surrounded on, you know, three sides by houses.
Now, first of all, there's simply no way Given that there are street lamps illuminating that field pretty obviously, there's no way you would crunch about in that field and make a formation there, because you're just in too obvious a place.
But they claim they saw this very bright light, and when they looked through the curtains to see what it was, there was this bright radiance, you know, literally over the area where the formation was then found the next day.
There's other instances of that.
I mean, back in 1995, we had a formation at a place called Upper Beading, and the farmer's father ...actually looked out of his window in the early hours of the morning, and saw these lights weaving about in the field, and then they suddenly came together in a cluster, and then shot off into the air, and the lights sort of, you know, just vanished, headed off towards the coast.
And the next morning, there was the formation, and exactly the spot we saw this.
Now, the more people began to ask him about this account, he sort of became more and more uncomfortable about it, and then in the end refused to talk any further about it.
But, um, you know, that must be an interesting incident of, uh, you know, somebody connected with the farm actually seeing these lights.
And, uh, back in 1996, we had a formation, uh, just a single circle at a place called Manning's Heath.
Now, we contacted the farmer, and he was very dubious about letting us in to survey it, but in the end, he did, and he accompanied us in.
And as we were looking at the formation, and he realized that we were, you know, serious about looking at it, and...
you know, investigating it. He then began to tell us some interesting stories and then he, the farmer,
having been very cynical and skeptical at the beginning, then began to tell us about all the
balls of light he'd seen hovering over his field. So I think there's more sightings of this kind of
stuff out there than we know. Often people will not talk about it publicly because they fear to
be ridiculed. And not only ridicule, but a lot of people are actually afraid of the lights or the
sounds that they hear coming from some of the fields.
And this would take us now to Belgium and the very interesting conversation that I had today with Chris Osterlink.
He is a researcher there and he went out to see the farmer And is the only person I know who did and went to this particular beautiful formation that is so similar to the Gog Magog from England.
And now let's hear what Chris Osterling learned about this Belgium formation.
I talked to the farmer who owns the field and went as one of the first people, of course, into the field.
After the report came from the person driving by.
And he testified that when he first arrived the crop was laid down but a little bit higher as it is now.
But he first saw, I could say he saw two things.
The first thing he saw, well actually he was quite amazed, but the first thing he saw was that the crop was laid very neatly.
And it was laid a bit off ground.
It was not flat close to the ground, it was a bit off ground.
The second thing he told me that got his attention was the absolute perfection of the lines of the rays.
He says it was very perfect.
Did the farmer hear any of the strange humming sounds?
No, the farmer himself, he didn't hear any of that, but people from the neighborhood What the neighbors heard was, uh, during the night of, uh, Saturday upon Sunday, was, uh, at least to say a strange sound, a continuous sound.
It was, uh, as they, um, explained, something that frightened them.
Uh, they were not used to it, and a few of the neighbors, actually, the ones that the journalists talked to, they didn't want to come out of their houses.
They were so afraid of the sound.
And that was quite unfortunate because if they went out they might have seen something that could have helped us out about the origin of the crop circle.
But it was a very unusual sound and it lasted for quite a while and it was quite a mechanical sound as they described it.
But it remains a mystery what the origin of that sound was because no one did actually go out to see.
And when they described this, uh, mechanical sound that scared them, did anybody demonstrate for you what the sound was like?
Um, well, they didn't demonstrate to me, but they demonstrated to the journalist.
And he wrote it down, but I cannot recall at the moment.
I should look it up.
Uh, it was some kind of murmur.
Like... Humming?
I cannot describe.
Yeah.
Too hard for me.
A humming sound is what the reporter said.
Yeah, it's like a humming sound, yes.
The neighbors around the field are one kilometer from the field, actually, so it was a very natural setting where the crop circle was.
So do I understand that the nearest people were one kilometer from the pattern?
Yeah.
And that means that whatever the sound was, it was very loud?
It must have been quite loud, yes.
And that's an interesting point, because rarely does any sound get reported.
And here we're hearing about something that sounds like a very loud, perhaps electric, some sort of like almost, as he said, a loud humming.
And if it were heard so loudly a kilometer away by people who were afraid to leave their houses, why isn't that heard?
At every crop formation when they occur.
And why is it that some people will see blasts of light out in a field or coming through a window, but many other people don't?
There's so many mixed signals when it comes to the mysterious lights, sounds and cross circles.
Well, maybe this is the monster from the id.
Maybe our own consciousnesses are somehow gathering and manipulating a force we don't fully understand yet.
For example, zero-point energy, which we have not grasped, but we believe to be there, and perhaps that's the physical manifestation of many minds thinking about one particular subject.
Like, for example, war.
Damn, there was just about a fever before the war, Linda!
Yeah.
And a lot of minds concentrating on the same thing.
And I'm just grasping some possibility here that might account for these things.
Well, I'm curious what you think people are so afraid of when it comes to crop formation.
They don't understand.
Things we don't understand, we are afraid of.
But you can be provoked by mystery and excited by mystery.
And a whole lot of other people.
They're under the coffee table, Linda.
You know, a farmer who's used to going out and harvesting his crop, and instead goes out there and finds something that looks like it came from Zeta Reticuli, you know, is probably going to be a little freaked out.
And he's also going to not want people tromping across his field.
He's certainly going to be freaked out.
If you don't understand something, you react with fear, and that will manifest itself many times with anger.
Yeah, I guess you're right, because I have a Little segment from this farmer, Todd Young, who his is the first and I think the only farm at least reported publicly in the United States ever to get truly a kind of fractal.
It's sort of a budding fractal.
It is not the drama of England, but he was so upset By the number of people who wanted to call him up and come see it that he just went out and cut it out.
But I did get to talk with him and I did get a series of beautiful photographs that were taken by Kali Kat.
She's a teenage daughter of one of his friends and I have them in the earthfiles.com report that was filed on June 18th.
And you can find that at Earth Files on the headlines page.
It has a hot link and you can click and see.
That's Ogburn St.
George.
Sorry.
The fractal formation that I did, Todd Young, was before then.
But they're all there at the headlines page.
And now, let's just hear from an American farmer who caught it down.
I did see it from the air.
I thought it was extraordinary.
Really didn't know what to think.
I've heard of crop circles, but this was the first one I ever did see.
And I believe that in one of the Baxter Bulletin issues, it quoted you as saying that it was eerie, and I wondered if you could explain that.
Yeah, I mean, when you see something in your field that doesn't belong, and I have control of everything that is in my field for the most part, you know, it's odd seeing what Mother Nature or something else or somebody else did in your field.
Right.
And, uh, could you just describe for, like, the radio audience exactly what you're looking at when you're seeing this formation from the air?
Okay, there's ten circles.
The biggest being in the center, uh, which is 47 feet wide.
The outer three, uh, and, uh, pyramid type situation.
The next size is a 28 feet circle times 3 around it.
The next ones are, I believe they are 17 feet.
And the smallest circles are 9 feet.
And there were then 9 in 3 arms, as you've just described around the one large central
circle.
Correct.
And those three arms were equally distributed around that circle.
Yes, ma'am.
When you walked into the circles on the ground the very first time, did you get down and look at any of the stems to see how they were bent down to the ground?
Yes, I did.
Obviously, I was very skeptical at first and looked at the center point of each circle and looking for something like
a stake drove into the ground or something disturbed in the very center of the soul and
did not find anything.
And he didn't find any tracks of any kind anywhere and the aerials which are on the
June 13th, earthfiles.com of this formation show it to be extraordinarily beautiful, very
similar to what you think of now when you think of England and Germany and Holland which
is very unusual for the United States.
All right, Linda, we're right up against top of the hour.
If you want to give out any contact info, do it now.
Yes, thanks.
Contact me, earthfiles at earthfiles.com.
Go look at the website, earthfiles.com, and tonight's report, and please let me know if anything occurs in your area, your state, or your country.
As always, Linda, an absolute pleasure having you here.
Oh, thank you, Art.
And next time I come around, and I'm sure many times before then, you'll be back again.
So thank you, Linda.
Okay, thank you, Art.
Good night.
All right, well, there you have it.
I wonder how many of you are willing to consider the proposition that perhaps these anomalous circles are designed by us.
Perhaps the physical ability to manifest them in the fields ...is a simple tapping, or not so simple tapping, of zero-point energy, which is going to be our next subject.
John Hutchinson, a scientist from Canada, and energy from the air, next.
This is a video of John Hutchinson, a scientist from Canada, and energy from the air, next.
Friday night and the lights are low Looking out for a place to go
This is a video of John Hutchinson, a scientist from Canada, See that girl, watch that scene, big as the fantasy queen
Where the fade-white music getting in between You can't resist the queen
Anybody could see that girl Got his young and the music's high
From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet This is Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie
George Norris.
Filling in for George, tonight's special guest host is Art Bell.
To talk with Art, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
775-727-1295. The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
East of the Rockies call 800-637-8000.
727-1222. East of the Rockies call 800- And west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
International callers may reach Art by calling the AT&T International Operator, and dialing toll-free, 800-893-0903.
Now, for George Norrie, special guest host, Art Bell.
You know, many times over the years, we've interviewed people, scientists, people with PhDs, Very, extremely well-credentialed, and every now and then we interview a scientist who may not be so well-credentialed, but may discover something that'll rock the world.
And that would be the case with tonight's John Kenneth Hutchison.
He may rock the world.
He may have discovered what others theorize is there, think is there, this zero-point energy, this source of energy that we don't understand at all.
He may have harnessed it.
He may have begun to release it.
At any rate, a lot of times, people like John, they just don't know what they shouldn't do.
You know, and so they go ahead and they do it anyway with very shocking results.
I mean, very surprising results.
And it's just because they don't know they shouldn't try it.
They go ahead and they try it anyway.
In a moment, From Western Canada, John Kenneth Hutcheson.
Stay right where you are.
Canadian-born scientist John Kenneth Hutchison is credited with the discovery of a highly
anomalous electromagnetic field.
That causes, get this, the jellification of metals, spontaneous levitation of common substances, and other effects resulting from what is believed to be a very complex scalar wave interaction between electromagnetic fields and matter.
That's pretty complicated.
Sounds that way, right?
But the jellification of metals A spontaneous levitation of things.
That means rising, just rising into the air.
The so-called Hutchison Effect.
From Western Canada, here is John.
John, welcome to the program.
Well, it's nice to be with you again, Art.
You're great.
Where are you, actually?
Well, I'm in New Westminster, actually, where the X-Files was once filmed here.
Oh, yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
Where to begin?
We're going to have to keep this in the realm of what everybody can try and understand.
So, the Hutchison Effect.
The obvious first question.
What is the Hutchison Effect?
How did you... Let's stick with that first.
What is it?
What is it?
Okay.
All right.
Basically, it's the levitation of objects of all types and weights, even water.
The gelification of metals, all At a distance away from the working RF operators and electrostatics, up to about 300 feet away.
I think the heaviest object to date has been a 1,500 pound transformer lifted one inch.
Now, you've got to understand, John, that's really hard for the average person to believe.
1,500 pounds of anything, lifting it at all, period.
That's anti-gravity.
It's anti-gravity, whatever it is, I don't know.
Time distortion, metal gelifications, but the lucky part about all this stuff was that a good team way back in the early 80s, Hathaway and Pizarro, they sort of launched me into the scientific community.
And one of my first main contacts was Lieutenant Colonel John B. Alexander.
I know Colonel Alexander very well, a very credible person.
We're still in touch, but he was head of a team back in 1983 with Los Alamos National
Laboratories.
We did our four-month thing in Vancouver, but the results didn't turn out that well.
So John, of course, called in about a year later after I did a demo on Canadian news
of the levitation.
McDonnell Douglas Aerospace were the...
You haven't explained it to me yet.
I want to understand.
Get right into the nitty-gritty.
Yeah, let's rock.
What is causing the levitation of anything?
What energy, directed in what manner, what machinery have you put together to accomplish this?
It's a vast amount of equipment, which is Tesla coils and RF generation equipment, let's say, electrostatics, and all formed and put into a geometric pattern.
I'm trying to get there, Art.
All right, well, these are the same things that were used in the so-called Philadelphia Experiment.
You know, the experiment to make ship disappear.
They had rotating RF fields.
They had a large electromagnet.
All of those same things seem to be involved with what you're telling me.
Yeah, in a way it is, actually.
It's very complex.
It's very random, too.
In the early days, it was maybe one effect per day.
All right.
And then, of course, it failed for Colonel Alexander.
But specifically, when you have succeeded, what I would like to understand, John, is how you've done.
In other words, how much RF energy are you using?
At what frequency?
What else are you using?
How are you directing this?
I want to understand how to do it.
Oh, you want to do it, too?
Yeah.
I want to understand how to do it.
And in that way, I'll understand it.
Okay, let's say we take a dummy, like a dummy load and fire off 450 kilohertz of RF and bleed it into, some of it into a dummy load.
Yes.
And let's say we have over in the other side, I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible for you.
That's fine, that's fine.
Let's say we have one of these high Q type of Tesla coils.
It doesn't really spark, but it does put a lot of energy.
Okay.
Into an area.
Then within this whole area, all right, let's say we have Produced by a Van de Graaff generator.
A high electrostatic field that's guided by weak magnetic fields.
Okay.
I'm trying to still draw you the picture here.
I know it's difficult.
Sometimes I can understand for your audience, too.
Well, I understand you've got 450 megahertz energy, roughly, going into a dummy load.
How much energy, by the way?
Oh, it's about 100 watts RF.
100 watts of RF, alright.
Because you get detected down by the You're probably safe going into a dummy load.
But I mean, still, is the dummy load the thing you're trying to levitate?
No, no.
What is forming art?
There's been some interesting scientific papers I guess I should have sent you there.
Well, why would you use a dummy load then?
Because a dummy load is simply going to absorb the energy.
What you want to do is radiate the energy.
I want to radiate, but not radiate a lot of energy, but a little bit.
It was basically the equipment I had at the time.
You couldn't adjust it for a lower RF output.
I see.
So therefore, the dummy lows, you've got a small amount of energy actually radiating at 450 megahertz.
And then you do what?
Okay, this is all modulated, like external modulation inputs.
And the Tesla coils are run by what they call spark gaps in the very old days.
I mean, this is going way back to 1980.
And the spark gas, of course, they heat up and they start to expand a bit, setting off frequencies that are changing the frequency.
Then I got into vacuum tube Tesla coils, very high Q coils that are not sparky types, but more putting out a lot of energy.
If you just walked up to it, let's say put a fluorescent lamp to it, it would light right up.
This kind of thing, what I did was worked back in time.
To actually recreate a lot of these machines that were to the old standards of the turn of the century.
Ah, well, a lot of technology has been forgotten and bypassed in all kinds of areas.
I'm running into that all over the place.
Things that were known back at the beginning of radio, for example, that have virtually been forgotten or discarded because somebody didn't understand why it worked.
That kind of thing.
Yeah, I'm running into a lot of that lately, John.
Especially if you take, like, the famous coherers.
So if you're sort of playing around with a lot of the same things that involve the Philadelphia Experiment, all right, so you get all of this going, and then what happens to the object?
What's observable?
Well, it was an accidental discovery by me.
How so?
Well, I like to turn out the lights and observe all this RF energy.
I understand, yes.
Yeah, I think you do.
It's fun.
It's fun.
Of course, you know, I'd be smoking my pipe there and it'd be a high static charge hit right into tobacco and blow it all over my face.
Pulling it out of my eyes, you know, good grief, you know.
But, you know, I'd sit in the darkened room, all these machines running.
Yes.
And I'd start hearing crashing sounds.
Crashing, right.
And I wondered what the heck was going on there.
So I observed that there was a bake-like block Let me understand, since you didn't know you were about to be levitating things, what were you trying to do with the experiment you were running that ended up doing this?
I mean, what were you trying to accomplish?
I was basically having fun observing the lighting effects of Tesla machinery.
I was trying to get that famous cubic yard of lit up material that Tesla did with disruptive discharge.
Okay, this I can understand.
You know, trying to have fun.
Watch what I can do, Mom.
Well, it was my landlady who actually... She got upset on that.
I'm sure she did.
The whole house started vibrating.
Yeah, that's right.
I can see like close encounters with light coming out your window and the neighbors going berserk.
We're all gonna die!
Well, yeah, they were getting on my case a little bit there.
But then that's when, of course, George and Alec discovered me basically doing all this stuff through some rumors they heard at an ESP fair.
And they traced me down and wanted to see the action, so they brought in people there to take photographs and then super 8mm film.
And what kind of photographs did you get?
Floating in the air like pistols and I think it was pistols and you floated a gun of course That's probably what got you raided.
Oh that was back in 1980 I got raided in 2002 when I was doing a special for Griffin film productions Well, I mean, I don't know how the Canadian government feels about things, but somebody calls up and says hey my neighbor's got a levitating gun You gotta get in here now Bringing the SWAT team.
All right, anyway, so you actually stumbled into this while you were just trying to have fun with electronics and Tesla coils and stuff, so I understand that.
And surplus gear, like from the good old stuff from Ferra Radio.
So you're trying to tell me that in the dark, you hear the crashing sounds.
Somehow or another, you figure out that you're beginning to move objects randomly in the room with this operation.
That's right, Art.
That's what started to happen, and actually, my landlord's son there, we used to play with the field by throwing paper, bits of paper and other things into the field, and then throw it back to us, because, to be totally honest, I was really in, let's say, not home behind the eyes with this kind of stuff, because I lived quite an isolated life.
You know, John, I've seen the effects of electrostatic fields, I mean, really strong electrostatic fields, and they will Repel some metallic objects and cause them to jump around and that sort of thing.
Mm-hmm.
But nothing like you're talking about.
I mean, the levitation of metallic heavy items or wood items.
Is there any limit to what can be levitated incidentally?
No, it doesn't seem to be any limit to it.
And the distance recorded to date by Los Alamos National Laboratories was some kind of configuration of energy at 300 feet away.
Is there any relationship between the amount of energy that you're using, the way you're using it, and how much you're able to levitate?
No.
The primary energy is about 400 watts and 110 volts coming in.
And that was, oddly enough, brought to Canadian News Service when they did a levitation experiment in 1985.
So you've actually had media In addition to individuals taking photographs of all this actually occurring, right?
Oh, of course.
Yeah.
This is well documented.
This is for a long, long time.
Because I don't want to go out and start talking about something that sounds ludicrous as this.
But it does.
I talked to a lawyer once about it.
He said, well, I'll be back tomorrow with the documentation of some dispute we're having.
And I came back with the documentation.
And he said, oh, thank God you brought the documentation.
We thought you were loony as a fruitcake.
Well, there is going to be that reaction among some.
Now, you know, conventional scientists are going to stick their nose in the air about this.
Of course.
And they're going to say, prove it to me.
I mean, if they're willing to bite that you've actually done what you're saying you have done, they're going to say, prove it.
Prove it.
Make it happen and make it happen again and again.
So we can run tests and figure out what you're doing.
McDonald Douglas Aerospace Corporation for Jack House, who had a controlled experiment, and then later on for the Canadian government, who then classified it as a matter of national security.
Did they now?
Yeah, I'm still trying to get the videos to this day out of them from DSTI, or the Director of Scientific Technical Intelligence Agency in Ottawa, but they deny coming here, but I have all these letters and stuff from these guys, Dr. Kuhn, and Lori, and old Tim Deere, Well, it's easy to see, if you're really doing what you claim, why they would be interested, of course.
Oh, yeah, I know.
Although, when I do television shows, I'll get a guest on, like Colonel Alexander, or Jack Houck, or many others who are witness to the experiments, and they'll back me up in a way that they were there and seen these things happen.
John Alexander has seen these things occur.
I thought you said that by and large it was a failure.
Oh, it was a failure when John and the team came, yes.
But John has nevertheless, as a witness, seen these things?
No, John has never really seen... Levitation?
No, no, he's never seen one.
It was the other folks later on that seen levitation, but he was... Well, alright, obviously one key for you is repeatability.
In other words, you need to be able to repeat this almost on demand.
What's the wild card here?
Why is it not easily repeated?
It was fairly easily repeated when I had another reincarnation of the lab back in 87 and 88 and 89 time periods.
Yes.
And we had all kinds of major effects happening about five per hour, which were major things happening.
Well, when it's not repeatable, what's wrong?
In other words, I'm sure you rack your brain over this, but what aspect of what you're doing has changed?
Well, in that time period, it was more or less that I got more in tune to the equipment and did modifications and upgrades so that the rates per hour were increased instead of, let's say, several major effects per day, it got down to, I think, about five per hour.
Well, somewhere along the line here, you changed something or did something that caused the effect to stop happening when you wanted it to, I guess, right?
Well, mostly it's environmental, such as humidity, will affect electrostatics.
And the Tesla mechanisms themselves, because this is all open air stuff, and it's not in a clean room or anything like that.
So any kind of environmental changes, like humidity or heat, will cause a problem.
So I'm always, I'm basically, what I'm doing is mostly adjusting the equipment while the others are taking photographs or filming.
So I rarely see the effects myself, but the other people do, and then they give me copies of what they've seen in the metal samples and that, too.
But I mean, you must be able to correlate what you're doing with the success rate that you're having for repeatability.
I mean, there must be some way you know whether you're going to be succeeding or whether something is wrong with the process.
Oh, yeah, and that takes a lot of measurements.
Yeah, I've seen an awful lot of test equipment.
I've seen some photographs with rooms, what appear to be rooms full of test equipment.
Do you still have all of that?
Well I do now.
I sort of reincarnated as a lab because the lab was destroyed back in 1990 when I was
invited to Europe to Dr. Peter Kokoschnik who was a very famous Austrian scientist.
The lab was to be shipped over there.
This is when I wanted to leave this group that wanted to take it back into the military
industrial complex.
By invitation of these people in Germany and Austria.
And how did the lab get destroyed?
It was basically seized.
There was lawyers that were going to say well this lab can be shipped to Germany now.
You're saying the Canadian government seized your lab?
Pretty well, Art, and it made front page news on the Vancouver Sun because the Canadian government wanted to keep it a big secret.
All right, John.
Hold on.
Actually, the entire lab is seized.
John Kenneth Hutchinson is my guest, and I think Well, I think we're talking about zero-point energy.
That's a very good question, actually.
We're certainly talking about the same mixture applied in the Philadelphia experiment.
And that's really something to think about, because there could be implications for time and time travel and all kinds of good stuff.
We'll be right back.
We're too hot to be sleeping.
This is a test.
We're too hot to be sleeping.
www.g-sense.com If we still have time, we might still get by.
Every time I think about it, I want to cry.
We're born to live, dear girl, and the kids keep coming.
No way they'll be easy in time to be young.
From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
Filling in for George, tonight's special guest host is Art Bell.
To talk with Art, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
East of the Rockies call 800-825-5033 and west of the Rockies call 800-618-8255.
International callers may reach Art by calling the AT&T International Operator and dialing toll free 800-893-0903.
800-893-0903. Now for George Norrie, special guest host Art Bell.
The Jellification of Metal.
That's one of the effects.
One of the Hutcheson effects.
The Jellification of Metal.
Now think back to the Philadelphia Experiment.
The tragic end to the Philadelphia Experiment.
Men who were half in and half out of a metal ship's deck.
Horrible ending.
Horrible.
But somehow or another, it just clicked in my mind, that horrible ending and the gelification of metal objects.
Something we'll ask about in a moment.
But stay right there.
Taken and then I guess retained by the Canadian government, right John?
Well, basically they tried to keep it a secret.
Now I did get half the lab returned to me when it returned from Germany and Europe.
Half the lab?
Yeah, just the test equipment and the gun collection.
What was missing?
Anything to do with machine tools or anything to do with Tesla machinery or high voltage equipment.
Oh, really?
Okay, you know, governments have always had this disproportionate, strange interest in everything Tesla, haven't they?
They do.
And, you know, they try to keep it a secret.
Why do you think that might be, John?
I think there's a lot of potential in old technologies that they'd like to use, perhaps, maybe in the Star Wars program.
Old secrets that they still know, but they don't want generally known.
That's all I would be able to conclude.
Why else rush in, take the stuff, try to keep it a secret?
With a cover story that was PCB-laden, which is truly untrue.
PCB?
How does that get into it?
Well, you see that, luckily, they were trying to do this all kind of Secretly, and then some hermit was living under the Alex Fraser Bridge in Vancouver here.
And he leaked it to the front page of the newspapers.
He leaked what?
About this lab being taken away and put in stories.
Oh, I see he was a witness then.
Yeah, he was a witness.
So the mainstream television media tried to get down there.
Oh no, the RCMP were out there saying, no, you can't come in here and tape this story.
Eventually, though, you got half the lab back, and that's all.
They've got the rest of it still.
Perhaps.
You know, I recently tried to get a hold of Dr. L.A.
Kuhn just to get the videos from his 1986 visit because they had super 8 millimeter film and on analysis of that particular film and videos was basically that they found that some of these metal pieces were transparent.
Oh yes, let's get to that.
The gelification of metals.
Somewhere in the same, I assume it's the same process that you described a little while ago, that causes levitation, also can cause the gelification of metals.
First, define gelification of metals.
What can you do?
On video, what happens is that these metal samples, which can be 3 inch diameter, stainless steel bar is about 18 inches long.
Solid steel.
Solid steel.
Yes.
Start to move around on a plastic table or on wood.
Yes.
And you can see energy running through them on video.
And you see in the center of these pieces something like an expansion.
And the thing literally falls apart.
And it moves around like a snake.
Right on prime video.
You're kidding!
I'm not kidding, Art.
The metal turns essentially to some kind of rubbery jelly-like something and then begins to riff like a snake on a plate.
Yeah, on plastic.
Okay, then let's go back to the beginning of this.
You have all of this on videotape.
Yes, I do.
And the samples, too.
And so what do your critics possibly say?
I mean, you're producing this.
I mean, metal turning to a riffing snake of something or another.
What can the critics say?
You have it on tape.
I have it on tape.
So what do they say?
You faked it or what?
No, they don't say that because Colonel Alexander had the The old Super 8mm films analyzed in Los Alamos and it wasn't fake.
So they went to a lot of trouble, it's a generic they in this case, Colonel Alexander, to examine your evidence.
Oh yeah, lots of, four months and we were still in contact and that kind of thing.
Plus other teams, so many numerous scientific teams that did analyze these.
Well, I mean, the military application alone of turning metal into jelly is a big one, I'll tell you right now.
Oh, yeah.
That's true.
All right.
Have you ever, in your experimentation, whether it's gelification of metals or levitation, noticed any localized effect on time?
I felt I have way back in 1980 and a few other times when I had the equipment turned on.
Yes.
And all of a sudden the whole room was full of like rainbows.
I thought I was hallucinating and I saw things like things moving through this stuff and I had in my hand kind of frozen because I was kind of nervous.
The Super 8mm camera running still.
Yes.
And after all of that of course I went to bed and Alex Peter and got it developed and asked me what that was and I
thought well I thought it was hallucinations or something and no it
showed up on the on the film what?
This multicolored rainbows thing that
Surrounded and again it showed up on film. Yeah Hmm. We've had such things as pieces of stuff that would
totally disappear. Well, what makes you think though that that?
Has any relationship to an effect of time?
Well, I kind of related to putting it all together over quite a length of time again that word
Because we'd have samples that would disappear Right off the shelf and reappear and it was older
Uh, oh.
Oh, really?
Like shrunken up things.
Oh, really?
Yeah, I'm not kidding.
So in other words, whatever, just bear with me because some of this is pretty wild stuff.
You're saying that... It sounds pretty wild, but you know, it's all documented.
That's the good part about it.
Well, you know, if all of this is so well documented as to be ironclad, then why aren't you ironclad right now?
Well, I'm not ironclad.
I'm sort of open and don't have much... Well, I'm not like with irons around your... Oh, good heavens, I... Your ankles or something.
Well, I refused to sign a military contract back in 19...
The Canadian military came to you with a contract for what?
Oh, to work with them back in Ottawa.
And I declined because it took away all my freedom to demonstrate this to the general public and to news media.
So I walked away from Paris Tech in 1986, went to a lawyer to, you know, have a lawyer there to protect me.
And then after that I met up with a group from Boeing Aerospace who then funded me and we did the research very heavy.
And by that time what happened was they wanted to get all the technology back into the military and then they kicked me out of my own company.
And that's when the German and Austrian teams were highly interested in what I'm doing and got lawyers involved and other folk.
Got me safely to Germany with the lawyers saying, well, don't worry about anything.
We'll handle everything with the lab.
We'll have it shipped to you.
And what happened there, of course, even a court, a B.C.
Supreme Court order, saying that there will be a trial on the proof of ownership of this lab, which is no problem because I have all the witnesses.
The government walked all over the court orders and everything else, and the lab was seized.
I learned about that when I was actually in Germany through a newspaper.
I mean, I've been saying this right along.
If what you're saying is true, there would be so many potential military national security type applications to it that the government would go berserk.
I mean, totally berserk, and would do whatever they would have to do to get hold of the technology that could do what you claim it can do.
I think they already have that, because a friend of mine, Nick Cook, wrote a book called The Hunt for Zero Point.
So then what?
They're just coming after you so that what they know doesn't become general knowledge?
Well, they probably think that whitewashing with it, calling it PK or something like that, would sort of whitewash it down to where people wouldn't get that interested in it.
Well, PK is an entirely different thing.
That's an effect of the mind or of some other unknown force on material objects, but it's Is there any specific technology involved to either change the atomic structure of something or to levitate it, to bring it to defy gravity and put it in the air?
No, if I had capabilities like that, it would be a walking disaster.
That's for sure.
But it was whitewashed like that one time.
But basically, I learned in 2001 that, it was a TLC TV special that Nick Cook put on there that he interviewed senior members of Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works.
Yes.
Basically, he was showing video footage of my experiments to Nick, which he aired.
Basically, Boyd Bushman said, we have the technology and now we're going to make it fly.
Shortly after that, Nick put together a book called The Hunt for Zero Point, where I'm featured in the back part of this book.
When I got a copy of it in 2010.
And what do they, you know, just paraphrasing, say about you in that part of the book?
Oh, it's quite a lengthy section with photographs.
They go into all the mysteries and mystiques, CIA and all that neat stuff about yours truly that I didn't know about.
And, you know, I'm reading this stuff and Nick Cook's an excellent writer and journalist.
He works for Jane's Defense Weekly as the chief aviation editor.
And I'm sort of rolling on the floor laughing because I didn't know these things happened that he found out about and was writing about.
So I thought, okay, if they have the technology in that, according to what was on TLC, you know, I should get a little bit of recognition for it, maybe?
You would think so.
But, you know, then my mind jumps back to 1993 when My sponsor there, Alex Pizzaro, said that basically we felt that we left the government too close to the project, and they just took off with it.
Because prior to that, we were expecting $35 million to R&D it to a functional level.
Of course, I walked away from the contract, but... You walk away from a lot of contracts, don't you?
Well, this one I didn't want because, Art, it just takes away your freedom.
You can't talk to anybody about what you're doing.
Well, I know, but it also gives you an enormous amount of money to develop the technology that, you know, you know is real, that you know it's real.
So it would give you all that money to develop this technology, and yet you walk away from it.
Why?
I walk away from it.
I've read about some case history of scientists working at Lawrence Livermore who, under the Reagan-Star Wars thing, which this was supposed to be part of
Who are very unhappy people?
They have all these restrictions and that to me money is money is very helpful. I've been sponsored by Japan and
Germany in the 1990s
But I prefer my freedom to being clamped down in a situation where I can't talk about the research
All right one great road for you to walk down John it seems to me would be to develop
any practical application of the Hutchison effect and
And reach out and market it and make a million bucks box.
Well, there's one application I'm thinking about, and it's a very simple process, and it's factory compatible.
It's not related to the Hutchison Effect, but it would allow me to continue on with the experiments, but it's a zero-point energy cell.
That'll work.
A zero-point energy cell.
Okay, let's talk about this a little bit, John.
Okay.
Now we're really talking about something substantial, a zero-point... Tangible, anyway.
Yes, very tangible.
The implication being zero-point energy, of course, folks, is, I don't know, not very well understood.
It's an energy coming from a source that we don't understand, nor are we able to control, most of us anyway.
It's theorized, but, you know, it's not yet harnessed.
What are you talking about, John?
Love it, Art.
Well, I've developed these little power cells back in 1994.
I gave a demonstration of them in Japan, 1995, on the 50th anniversary of the bombing of Hiroshima, which was a much larger unit, more complex.
What do they do?
They put out about one volt and will drive a small motor.
These are the bigger versions that I demonstrated in Japan.
And are they, in what manner do they receive and then store the energy you're talking about?
How do they get the energy?
Sort of related in a way that perhaps, like, it'll collect zero-point energy that is around us all, everywhere through the universe, supposedly, according to certain scientists that have Nobel Prize winners.
Collects it how?
Through simple processes called little Casimir plates of metal.
Yes.
Micro Casimir plates of metal because basically the zero point energy was discovered by Casimir using metal plates that were charged and these little plates would come together on their own and somehow produce more energy that was given to them in the beginning.
So my idea was, well, gee, okay, I just had an idea.
What if I had ground up materials, special metals that are very electrically active, and mix it in with the very electrically active minerals?
What you did do, with water, and then boil out all the hydrous components from this material and put it in a little container, and see if I, basically if I could charge it with about 20,000 volts of direct current.
You really start out big, don't you?
Well, it did work.
I mean, like... 20,000 volts?
Well, yeah, DC direct current.
Uh-huh.
A little shot, to give a memory.
A little shot?
If your idea hadn't worked, John, it would have blown up in your face.
I've worked around 10 million volts with Tesla Coal, sorry.
I can imagine you have.
I haven't burned my hair off yet, but you know... Still, 20,000 volts is... Pretty... Substantial.
Pretty... Give you quite a jump, that's for sure.
So...
So you're getting it started and then what?
It'll produce a volt for what period of time?
It seems to be indefinite from the tests that were done at Kyoto Institute of Technology.
Indefinite?
That's good.
The Max Planck Institute in Germany and also some other groups around the world.
How big is the device?
I would say they're maximum about a D size battery.
And they put out anywhere from 1.5 electron volt to 1.7.
But their energy factor is not that great.
That's where you need to go into.
You mean current capability?
Is that what you're talking about?
Yeah.
They're pretty weak.
It doesn't matter.
If you can demonstrate 1 volt at almost any amount of current that is virtually... Let me ask you this, John.
If you ground this thing out, if you short this thing out, And then you observe the voltage on it when you remove the short.
What kind of rise time do you get?
It's almost within one, two seconds.
One or two seconds.
So there is a rise time then?
There is a rise time.
So this thing is recharging itself from... Being a direct shorted out.
Yeah, but we don't really know, do we, how it's recharging itself?
A lot of science and physics art we really don't understand at all in nature.
It's so exotic.
That's what makes it the challenge.
These little things, they seem to rebuild.
I like to downgrade it to like an energy scavenging cell.
Energy scavenging.
That's interesting.
If what you're saying is true, it's incredible.
And of course, it's just the very beginning, John.
You sort of mentioned something here that maybe you can relate to in the audience, too.
There's a surplus store, let's say, in Ohio there, Farrah Radio.
They used to sell these barium titanate cylinders, and it's classified as self-reactive material.
These things would constantly, forever, maybe for hundreds of years, put out a constant voltage up and down.
They would fluctuate in amplitude.
and these units used to sell for, from Phil there at Ferra Radio,
sells for around $29.
And they were once used basically for sonar.
Sonar.
So this material, barium titanate, is actually classified by the
Aircraft Safety Commission people as a self-reactive material.
So if I go back and study self-reactive materials, I understand that Westinghouse, for instance,
would make common tar and wax self-reactive through vaporization process and pass it through a high-tension
direct current, maybe 40,000 volts, and it's reliquefied in a capacitor, so you see.
So I have one of these old self-reactive capacitors.
So then they get what?
They get something that produces a voltage?
Oh yeah, I found that out in a surplus store in the 1980s when I grabbed on to one of these beautiful-looking capacitors.
So you're really claiming, in a way, what's new is really old, right?
Yep.
That this is something that was known a long time ago.
Again, that's right, Art.
Alright, John Hutchison is my guest, and we're talking about energy virtually from, well, we really don't know.
Maybe the minds of many are my bet.
I'm not alone.
Don't leave me this way.
I can't survive, I can't save a life without your love.
Don't leave me this way.
I'm not alone.
Don't leave me this way.
I can't survive, I can't save a life without your love.
Don't leave me this way.
you you
Premier Radio Networks presents Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
And now, filling in for George, here's special guest host, Art Bell.
It's the magic of the night, you know.
John Hutchinson is my guest, and if what he says is true, then he's levitated objects in the air.
There's proof of it still, video.
Levitated material things in the air, and we'll talk about what those are.
He's developed a power cell, a battery that Scavenges whatever it is out there for power.
And you know, if all of this really were true, the Canadian government, yeah, they'd take his lab and they'd probably truss him up like a Christmas turkey.
In a moment, we'll continue.
You know, I've always been very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very,
You know, I've always been very...
I'm very, very skeptical about people with claims, whether it be a carburetor that goes 150 miles, or whether it be a little black box that produces more output than it does, you know, have input.
In other words, an energy-generating device.
All of these things, they have fairs where people bring these things and demonstrate them, and can I look in the box?
Oh, you can't look in the box.
That's proprietary.
You can't look in the box.
They make these claims.
I've always been, and I think properly, extremely skeptical of these claims.
However, here we have John, who's talking about levitating things, who's talking about turning metals into a moving jelly-like substance as a result of this radiation process that he's come up with.
And I would normally be every bit as skeptical.
And the battery, of course.
One volt, nearly continuous, and builds right back up again.
Hardly any current, but nevertheless one volt.
Now, you know, normally I just sort of laugh this off, I think, but I put up this recent antenna.
You all know about thousand foot loop times two.
Two thousand foot loops.
And I'll be damned if there's not all kinds of anomalous energy coming from this thing.
You know, about 400 volts.
I don't know what kind of current yet.
AC and DC components.
I mean, really where this is coming from Well, I don't know where the hell it's coming from, is really the bottom line.
It's pretty anomalous right now.
Since I've got you on the line, John, you know about it, maybe, or something about it.
Where do you think it's coming from?
I think it's coming from what the old-timers used to call the ether.
The ether.
It's like saying, Yeah, that's going way back in time.
Straight out of the ether.
Straight out of the ether.
The old days that the old-timers seem to know and have the intuition to work on these things.
I've seen many interesting diagrams on improvements for radio receivers.
I had one... But coming from nowhere.
You're really saying coming from nowhere, yeah.
It's like when I did an experiment with a 50-foot length of wire that ran right to a tree.
And you put a copper tack into the tree and hold the wire there, because actually you've got the sky wave and the ground waves and that kind of neat stuff.
Yes.
I got some voltage off of that thing.
It was only 50 feet long, but it's an old ham radio trick to use a huge tree for an antenna.
Oh, sure.
You've heard of that one.
Use whatever you've got.
Trees, if you can grow supports for an antenna, that's great.
Otherwise, you've got to put up steel poles.
Yeah.
But anyway, wires hanging in the air generating this enormous amount of voltage, which most engineers, frankly, disregard as a pain in the butt.
And even that's what I treated it here, a pain in the butt.
I grounded it out out there before it comes in the house.
But it's still there.
And it's coming.
We should talk a little about the possible source.
Do you have any ideas on actually where Well, it could be.
I was thinking of maybe it was some type of telluric earth currents that run at 20 cycles per second from the geomagnetic field, but no.
No?
I was about to say, that's possible.
I was thinking of it.
Also, have you measured it, let's say, during the solar flux index periods of the day?
I don't see any relationship to what's going on.
I watch the solar flux index very carefully, and I watch for when we have large eruptions on the sun, and I don't notice any correlation.
This is constant.
This energy is always there.
Yeah, I think you're probably tapping into copper wire.
Is it multi-strand?
Yeah, it's multi-strand, coated copper wire, 2,000 feet of it.
Then you are tapping into something.
Why not?
Something?
I don't know what.
Probably you are.
But I guess my point is that if I can observe this, then I have to imagine that what you're doing may have some validity.
I wonder if you're tapping into virtually the same thing in some different way, or some completely different power source, or what you've found.
I feel that with the Hutchison Effect apparatus, it has to be zero point energy because it's the only energy that can deliver that amount of energy to take metal bars and twist them in knots or melt them or much like the little battery.
But see, I said again, if any or all of this is true, the Canadian government would have you trust like a Christmas turkey, brother.
I mean, you just, you know, you wouldn't be able to talk on radio programs like this or TV shows or say this kind of thing.
That's why I walked away from them.
No, I don't want to sign the contract.
Goodbye.
Okay, so then what?
The only thing they can do then is try and perhaps discredit you in some manner?
Oh, they could do that.
I mean, they don't.
They appear with me on TV shows.
They do?
Yeah.
Oh, really?
What kind of person appeared with you?
Colonel Alexander did.
Colonel Alexander, alright.
But he's a Canadian government type person?
Yes, actually.
Tom Vallone.
And what was that little debate like?
I mean, I suppose you were saying, why did you take my lab stuff, or what?
No, these are people that I don't know who actually... I'd just say generalized Canadian government that took the lab because I was in Europe, but these are other friends of mine.
But I mean, when you got into a debate with somebody representative of the government, what was the substance of it?
Oh, I might get arrested if I return here to Canada.
Oh, really?
Yeah, that's what was told to me over the line.
Based on what?
Well, based on this lab of mine.
Arrested, though, and charged with?
Oh, what the heck was the charge, anyway?
I sort of left it off.
That's pretty important.
Yeah, I know it's important.
Experimenting with stuff we don't understand?
I don't think there's a law for that.
No, I don't think there's any law for that.
It was something else.
I think it was PCB or something.
PCB?
Oh, you mean like in a transformer?
Yeah, something like that.
I think it was that.
I'm just trying to remember the whole issue, but I do have it in records on the from the lawyers and that kind of stuff.
PCBs are contained in older transformers, electrical transformers, folks, and they're somewhat poisonous and blah blah blah, damaging to the environment, and they're changing, you know, power companies have all pretty much changed out or in the process of changing out anything they use with PCBs, but why in the world would they charge you with that?
Another thing they did, somebody set up, it seems like a set up, I have it in writing from at least a lawyer, It's important to have documentation of this.
There was one gram of radium inside the shipping container.
Radium?
Yeah.
Which there wasn't.
You didn't have any radium?
No.
Usually you know if you have a gram of radium.
Yes!
You have lots of lead surrounding that kind of stuff.
So you think what then?
You're charging that they slipped the radium in?
No, there was no radium found, but the story was generated by some very notorious folks that really didn't like yours truly.
Yeah.
And that prompted the Canadian government more so to act.
Just on the rumor alone?
Well, they acted on many different stories, and they were saying, well, this technology is going to Europe.
I could be committing treason.
My goodness, they even had Henry Champ fill me up.
Oh, so they thought you were taking technology out of the country.
Yeah, one of those weird, boring stories, but You know, I was always cooperative with people, but when they come to really try and put the squeeze on me, like, well, John, you know, you're going to be kicked out of your own company if you don't take this into Boeing, and we can work on it, and we'll get all the funding kind of stuff.
This is like the second group of people I was involved with, and I was invited by the German team because they were more scientific and famous over there, and they were working on ZPE.
What's VPE?
Oh, sorry, Zero Point Energy, or Quantum Fluctuations.
Alright.
And that's where you have, of course, the official thing is zero degrees Kelvin, where no moving energy is supposed to be, but however, it does exist, according to some tests.
So, this famous Austrian scientist, actually, much like you, had these heavy grounds going into all around his villa, and he had this room that had cork.
and rubber and steel plating inside because he showed me with two round two inch diameter balls about spaced oh I would say half an inch apart and hooked right into a spectrum analyzer he felt and I trust him that he was getting ether oscillations as he called them.
Ether oscillations?
Well it's more or less energy?
Yeah it's basically the zero point energy which according to Dr. Pudov who's One of the greats in the area.
Hal Puthoff?
Oh yeah, Hal.
Again, I want to understand what he had.
He had a very good grounding system.
One ball, no doubt, connected to that, and the other connected to what?
Okay, one was to the ground plate on the floor, and the other was connected to the outside grounds.
Oh, the outside grounds.
So a difference in ground potential, and he was producing what?
He was producing oscillations that were monitored on a spectrum analyzer.
And from his observations and scientific analysis, he felt that these were indeed the oscillations of the quantum fluctuations, or the zero-point energy.
So he was able to observe.
Now, was this across the spectrum displayed by the spectrum analyzer, or was it at some particular point, or what?
No, at a certain point when these two balls got close together, Art.
Certain very they were actually a gentleman if you've got a spectrum analyzer you're looking at a wide spectrum of frequency so I'm asking if it was in one particular area or across the spectrum of about I think it was 450 megahertz there we go again you know I'll tell you something John I did the show with the man who knows about the Philadelphia experiment and listen to me brother when I tell you that it was 450 megahertz energy they were using in the Philadelphia experiment. That's exactly what they
were using. I remember, I'll remember this interview till my dying day. Wow, I mean
that's, it must have been, you think it would be a subharmonic
because the zero point area is so high up, but he was, he did say it
was subharmonics.
Well, when you, yeah well, right, when you start fooling around with
harmonics and modulation of all this.
That's exactly the kind of thing that HAARP is doing.
Oh, yeah.
In Alaska.
And they're producing a harmonic output that they will do, they claim, will do all kinds of things.
In fact, the minds of man literally cook people, look underground.
HAARP is happening right now, folks.
And these are the kinds of things that they're talking about, so.
I met some ham radio operators, Art, that said that the We're doing an experiment along with the HAARP project where the HAARP people reverse the polarity of the ionosphere and they could communicate around the world.
I wonder if you've heard anything about that one?
No, I haven't heard anything about that.
I've heard HAARP on the air on shortwave frequencies.
I've heard them operating and testing, but in terms of anybody reversing, you see, the only reversal I know about occurs on the Sun every 11 years.
Okay.
But the ionosphere itself I've never heard of any reversal of any of its properties.
Yeah, the propagation there, I was just reading up a little bit on that, but anyway, that's his claim.
I can't, you know, this is what he said, but I wasn't there, so.
Well, we should deal with what you know to be true, because what you, your experiments, the things you have done, these are what really count.
How much actual documentation of all of this do you have?
For example, and I wanted to ask this, what have you levitated?
Everything, I would presume, from a feather to pieces of iron and very heavy things?
Does weight matter?
Does bulk matter or mass matter?
No, it doesn't matter.
I've levitated cannonballs, water, ice cream.
You levitated ice cream?
Right out of its cup, I think, as I remember the videos on Prime Video Stock.
I do picture this ice cream hanging in the air.
Oh, well, it got pretty messy.
Yeah, I'm sure it did.
This sounds crazy, but I did these things because I was running out of test objects, and these things go off at an angle.
Boy, it's very important to understand.
Almost destroyed the poor guy's building.
You know, it's really important that we understand what you have levitated so we can try and get some idea of what this process is.
But you're claiming everything, even liquids, huh?
Sure, liquids, water.
I think one was frozen apple juice.
Frozen apple juice.
And a carrot.
Do these things rise?
Um, up off the floor or the mechanism, and just hover in the air?
Did I hear you start to say they shot across the room?
Well, they shoot, shoot across the room.
That's what they call, the scientific team, is called ballistic lift, where they keep accelerating.
Yes.
And then there's hovering, where they'll just simply hover there and do nothing.
Like float.
Oh, really?
And are you in control of what occurs, or once this process that you unleash begins, Is it one of those things where anything can happen or what's the deal?
Well, anything can happen except in the later years I had it down to an area, a test area actually, between two walls where I'd go out and film it and the other crew would have the lab running on its own without adjusting all the controls and voltages and that.
So we could get a lot of stuff covered.
That would be the late 80s.
There's a lot of stuff covered that way, too.
And, um... You mean you would just set the process in motion?
Mm-hmm.
We had, like, nails go floating through the wall, which was captured by another Alexander, a friend of mine to this day.
Nails floating... floating through the wall?
Yeah.
He captured on, uh... And then what?
Appearing physically on the other side?
Dropping to the floor?
What?
Uh, just sort of stuck in the wood.
It was in a storage area.
Ending up in the middle of the wood?
Yeah.
And actually, there's a case history where the whole building disappeared, according to an insurance agent.
Well, see, here we go.
Now, again, Philadelphia Experiment Time.
The tragic end of the Philadelphia Experiment.
I mentioned that earlier.
Bodies in the middle of the metal.
Horrible, horrible way to die.
I mean, suddenly you're part of a metallic deck.
Allegedly occurred in the Philadelphia experiment and you're describing things that sound an awful lot like We had like that art.
We had a lot of Samples that were analyzed by the Max Planck group and also here you mean objects after they had done some of this They have wood inside of them blocks of wood One big silence there at the other end there are yeah a lot of wood Pieces of wood inside of the material what kind of material inside of what?
Inside of extrusion aluminum machining?
Inside of metal?
Yep.
Now you're going to think I'm really loopy, but it's been documented and analyzed by Siemens Labs.
There's even denser material and transmutated alloys that they say don't exist anywhere on this earth.
Oh my!
Yeah, I'm sorry to be giving you a headache there with all this stuff.
Well then, this is part of the process of the liquification of metals, the same process, or what?
Well, they turn into jelly and what happens is sometimes they'll even be squeezed, like an invisible hand squeezing them.
You see them being sort of pulsating and they'll Sometimes there's explosions where they just pop apart.
We'll get to the explosion part in a minute, but in the cases where they don't explode, do they then re-harden to become their original atomic material, even though misshapen, or do they return to the original shape when the process is stopped, or what?
No, once the equipment is turned off or the effect stops happening, the material is just left there, and then you go in and pick it up.
It's ice cold.
But left there in what condition?
In its last condition?
Or does it return to its original shape?
No, no, no, it doesn't return to its original shape.
So a metal bar then might just be sort of a conglomeration of massive stuff?
That's right, yes.
That's stainless steel, brass, ordinary steel, a lot of aluminium pieces, and... Yeah, I'm very interested in Where your experiments ranged with materials, I mean... Okay, plastics, water, although the water was never tested.
The other samples were heavily tested by the Ontario group, George Hathaway, a well-known scientist, along with Colonel Alexander.
And you're suggesting the results of those tests, among other things, included trace elements of things not found on Earth.
That's right.
That was Max Planck's findings.
I think it was Hathaway's findings, too.
All the stuff is documented.
I got copies of it.
It's all actually going to be released by Hathaway in a book, although it's been released so far to date to many agencies around the world.
I've got to open up these containers of metal samples and get George there to photograph them and get some of these documentations.
Out two, which are around the world a little bit there.
That's going to be very important indeed.
All right, listen, hold on.
We're at a break point here.
John Hutchison is my guest.
I'm Art Bell.
This really is incredible stuff.
Now, you can either cast to the side and say it's BS, or listen carefully and see if you might just imagine something's really here.
Something the Canadian government now knows about, I guess.
do you know me? Oh, I'm waiting by your side. You've been up high too much tonight. You've always just you've been
here. Yeah.
Oh, I'm
And I've been waiting for this moment for so long.
so good for all my life.
From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
Filling in for George, tonight's special guest host is Art Bell.
To talk with Art, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
East of the Rockies call 800-825-5033.
And west of the Rockies call 800-618-8255.
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Operator and dialing toll free 800-893-0903.
Now, for George Norrie, special guest host, Art Bell.
You see, I've already been around long enough to see a lot of what I wrote about some number of years ago begin to come true.
You know, and people say, hey, you wrote about that.
Well, you know, someday, I think, The world is going to look at the kind of thing that you're hearing about tonight and reflect on the fact that you did hear about it tonight.
That somebody had done this.
Someday when the oil runs out and we're having to turn to some other energy source and miraculously it appears just like something, you know, stealthy out of the night.
And it cures the world's energy problems.
Then you'll hear about people reflecting on the fact that programs like this did one time talk about this kind of thing on the air.
more of it in moments.
John says that he can tell us how to get to the other side of the world.
john says that he can tell us How to produce a dirt-cheap, he calls it, shake-and-bake method of producing zero-point energy batteries.
Now, why don't you give that to us, John, in an instructive way?
If it's dirty and cheap, then the average person at home could try this themselves, couldn't they?
As long as it's not some sort of proprietary thing for you.
Could you sit here right now and tell us how to put one of these batteries together and how to measure the effect?
I could indeed do that already.
Do it indeed.
Simple formulation of common minerals like galena, which was once used for radio receivers, ground up into a fine dust and mixed in with some salt.
There you have yourself a little power supply.
I'm sort of holding back on one recipe just because I want to make some money someday on this, but if an example is that it's called petrol electrical effects too. If you go to see and study T-Towns
and Browns work in this area, you'll find that that's very intriguing stuff. It was once again buried in time.
But you can't give us one of the vital ingredients.
Oh, I shouldn't. Colonel Saunders, like, you know, he didn't want to give away his secret recipe yet.
What can you produce?
Well...
In terms of voltage, what kind of battery do you end up with?
Is it the one we were talking about a little while ago with a volt and a little bit maybe?
Just a volt.
I have some at a half electron volt up to 1.7 and they actually do power Alarm clocks and calculators and that kind of thing.
So this is where an industrial person with a factory would say, gee, you know, because they're kind of limited with... I can't fault you for wanting to make some money, I suppose.
I take it you really haven't done ultra well in the profit category from all of this yet, have you?
Well, I had sponsorship from Japan, where there's a unit sitting in Hiroshima City that's quite powerful, but the deal Was I to get $25 million and he was to get $25 million?
What happened to your $25 million?
Oh, they didn't see it.
You didn't see it?
I got sponsored for $130,000 US and sponsored by Germany for $130,000.
That's indeed significant.
It's significant funding.
I made some good prototypes.
But the big payoff still hasn't happened.
No.
I want to try and safely market it.
As a toy, because these things also work in reverse.
That's wonderful.
That's the exact thing I said people should make.
Just give me an over-unity toy.
That's it.
Just a toy and I'll be a believer.
That's what I'm trying to promote to people that want to put it out on the market.
I mean, I've had... And what would your toy be capable of?
Just curious.
I don't... You know, if I pry too far, then fine.
I mean, what would it be capable of?
A tricorder.
I beg your pardon?
Like a tricorder.
You mean like in Star Trek?
Yeah, because you can walk around with this thing.
I'm not kidding.
You can... Boy, I'm not kidding.
No, I'm not.
You can walk around with this thing.
Yes?
With a liquid crystal display, and it will indeed seem to monitor environmental reflections and energy in that.
And relay this information to you in what way?
In basically a bar graph.
If you walk around with, say, a building and some kids... What I want to try and do is get out for kids for around $20 or something like that.
Mass market.
Like a mass manufacturing.
Hit me again.
What is it measuring, please?
You've got a bar graph that's measuring what?
Different kinds of energy that was calculated, well, I have to rely on my friend in Germany there, that seems to pick up biological energy, if it's negative or positive, and moving objects outside, and also environmental, let's say, fluctuations in geomagnetics, and also gravimetric fluctuations.
And you can actually see it on the bar graph.
So it's measuring all kinds of random, otherwise unmeasurable things.
It made a person a multi-millionaire.
So it's stolen one of these things in 1990.
You formed an oil company, used it for detection of oil.
First time callers, area code 775-727-1222.
Now, listen, we want to be careful here.
We don't want to identify anybody specifically, so I'll delete the reference to that.
But I mean, you've been that close, and I would see somebody like you.
They're always, John, going to suffer at the hands of their own government.
They're going to suffer at the hands of industry that doesn't want something out there yet.
I mean, somebody like you, nobody, in terms of their willingness to step over you and stomp on you like Godzilla stomps on an ant.
Boink!
Yep, out he goes.
So, that's right.
But, you know, putting it out as a toy is sort of non-intrusive.
Well, I don't know, that kind of a toy that would measure that kind of thing is not such a toy, is it?
In a way.
Gotta get out there somehow.
Yeah.
So you actually then plan to make and manufacture or turn over to somebody to be manufactured this toy?
Yep.
Guaranteed.
When do you think you're going to have such a thing on the market, John?
Well, it all depends on what friendly investor pops up on the scene.
That's the main problem.
I've met a number of investors already who've seen the thing.
And well, they always ask the question, oh, can it power a house?
I'm thinking, oh, not one of these problems again, because to do that you need to go really into heavy research and R&D to build something like that.
You need to go into vacuum depositing type factories where they make microchips to build something.
But if it's any part of the basic technology that would lead to that, then that's still a pretty big deal, huh?
Well, yeah.
I mean, that could go through the military again.
They did have a solicitation in their handbook in 1998 for an energy scavenging cell, but
I didn't fill out the forms.
I thought, you know, it gets kind of tough here where I maybe won't be able to do TV
shows like for Fox and doing some of my other weird experiments in this apartment here like
the flying saucer thing.
The flying saucer thing?
Yeah, a toy plastic flying saucer that I managed to make it bop up and down with high voltage
attached to it and it was filmed by Griffin Film Productions.
It'll air sometime this fall.
You levitated a flying saucer?
Yeah, but it did have a mainstream 32-gauge polythermalized wire with 20,000 volts on it coming down the spring load.
So if it took off, the spring load would take up the slack, so it wouldn't start burning the place down.
Have you run into a lot of landlord trouble?
Well, let's just say in the last one with Griffin Films, yes, and also prior to that for Fox Television, there were neighbors that were very upset and the police came.
What did the police do?
Oh, well, this time, it would be 2001, I believe.
I know I have an article here about the government raid.
Yes.
It's the headline, John Hutchison raided at gunpoint by Canadian police.
I have that whole story here.
That occurred in March of 2000, right?
2000?
Okay, about that.
I then had some antique weapons here.
Saturday, March 18th.
That's right, yeah.
2000, yeah.
Mark A. Solis wrote that up.
It was actually during a film crew that was out here from Miramax Motion Pictures.
Still, there's a lot of people who want to do my whole life story.
I bet there are.
Yeah.
It gets confusing, Art.
So I was doing a pre-demonstration for Fox TV and then a knock on the door and somebody said, well, we saw somebody bring in some firearms here.
And they were just basically Flintlock rifles and that kind of stuff, American Civil War items.
And they came in and took them all out, put me in handcuffs, had the handguns out, the whole SWAT team.
But the weird part about it was, They brought in these photographers.
Well, see, this sort of thing, even as far as you've described it right now, would be a very testing experience for, say, a landlord.
Oh, the landlord himself, it's more of a tourist attraction for him with all this stuff out here.
Like, I have an antenna farm on my balcony and a 20-millimeter anti-aircraft gun.
I beg your pardon?
I have a... You have a 20-millimeter anti-aircraft gun?
You have one?
Mm-hmm.
I used to work on Navy ships.
See, John, you know, They have problems with that kind of thing these days.
I think pilots probably are made nervous by the knowledge that there's people with anti-aircraft guns out on their balconies.
Why would you have that?
Well, I like armaments.
I'm a historian for old guns and stuff, too, and machine tools and radio equipment and surplus and more surplus.
And I had, you know, the best part of my life was when I had the chance to work on three destroyers.
And the deal was I I didn't ask for any money.
I just took care of the cannons and took anything off the ships I wanted.
So, I did.
I took a lot off the ships.
Including an anti-aircraft gun.
Plus the original X. Well, it's no wonder they're raiding your apartment.
What would you expect?
I'm going to ask you about something now that I know you didn't particularly want to be asked about, but I'm driven to because you teased me with it and so I feel a right to ask you about this.
Okay, please do.
You're working on some kind of project involving, your part of it anyway, is in the construction of the Ark of the Covenant.
Yes.
Tell me as much as you're able anyway, please.
Well, it's just a special TV group there that I'm supposed to be the team member and my knowledge of old technology is very welcome to them for me to do a replication of it.
You're trying to replicate the Energy aspect of the Ark of the Covenant?
I can only imagine you're making a model of the Ark of the Covenant for whatever reason.
Maybe we're not going to know.
And your part in this is to try and provide what you believe was the energy in the Ark of the Covenant.
Is that fairly accurate?
That's fairly accurate, using the old Egyptian technology batteries and that kind of stuff.
And perhaps Leyden jars, which Ben Franklin used, that principle, or the, again, the sort of shake-and-bake method of power sourcing.
If there was Egyptian batteries around, I tend to believe they are.
I've seen them when I was in Egypt.
Why would somebody want to, in essence, recreate the Ark of the Covenant?
Wouldn't there be a certain inherent, very serious dangers in trying to even do that?
I think the dangers... Okay, I've been around hyper-voltage circuits.
Well, I don't mean sort of immediate electrical dangers, as I do the whole... Psychic realm of it?
Well, yeah.
Sure.
The Ark of the Covenant, after all.
Yeah, that's true.
And there's that element, too.
That's where one has to have their mind sort of fine-tuned to take this with great respect, which I do.
So I put out the question to experts what they feel about that, too.
Well, I did send an email off to a friend, Colonel Alexander, what he'd feel about it.
Yes, and what did he say?
I think he must be on vacation.
I haven't gotten an email.
No answer yet, huh?
No, not in the last while.
I sent him some other emails on other topics, but this kind of thing has to be highly respected energy-wise and also politically, too, because if it's going to be taken over to To Mount Sinai or something like that.
And that is what is going to happen?
You're telling me now you're gonna be part of this ARC project and that it's going to Sinai?
Oh Yeah, I know.
It's like bullets and missiles, I think.
Boy, I'll tell you and you're definitely gonna be part of this and you're working on that now?
Well, I... Not right now.
It's been proposed to me.
Yes?
Something that you would do?
Yes, actually I would do it.
I respect all beliefs.
I don't have anything against any belief systems.
I highly respect nature.
So I keep myself, how can you describe it?
Humanitarian?
I try to.
More like a Buddhist, maybe, perhaps.
I'm trying to relate it to your audience there.
I'm kind of happy.
You know, what if doing this had negative consequences?
I mean, just bringing that up as a slim possibility, the Ark of the Covenant, after all.
Yeah.
So you recreated and you hit it on the head, and what about the possibility of unleashing something that... Well, Art, you know, it's... I believe a lot in the human mind, too, and what they can conceive up.
Like, we're talking about either Zarg or the monsters from the Id.
I think that's highly probable.
In PSI research, and I've seen a lot of documentation, I have unclassified documents on PSI research done by Lieutenant Colonel Tom Bearden.
And I would respect this thing very highly in doing it.
But a lot of people advise me not to do it because of the political implications it might have.
There'd be plenty of those.
Yeah.
Plenty of those.
And all kinds of religious reaction of all sorts.
That'd be wild.
Yeah, that's something I really don't want to bring that kind of energy towards me.
How are you in the real world, one in which you're forced to live?
Jon, eventually you're going to have to make some bucks out of all of this.
Either that or it's time for a second career.
You've got to either figure out a way to pay off Or you're going to just sort of fade away, and there's not going to be any future for you.
So you've got to figure out a way to make this pay off.
You need investors, people to have a demonstration, become believers, and then support you?
I've always seemed to have angels that come along.
To me, I may fade away, so what?
We all fade away in time.
Suppose I'm an angel.
That's true.
We do.
Suppose I'm an angel and I've got some money and I contact you and I say, look, you know, I'm really kind of a skeptic about this kind of thing, but to be honest with you, if you can show me things levitating in the air, you can show me the liquefaction of metals.
I've got the money.
Let's go after it and see if we can't get rich.
Be my partner.
But first, prove it to me.
Show me.
been the story for 23 years. And why shouldn't it be?
Yeah, it's like we've proved it many times to many scientific teams
that thought it was amazing, filmed it, and then never seem to come through on it. Why do you think that is?
I really don't know. I mean if there's a solid basis to your research and your
claims that you can do this, it's no minor matter and it would be, it seems to me, it
would produce investments and capital and money
Really quick.
Don't forget, Art, though, a lot is on my shoulders in the way that how I approach it, too.
I've walked away from many investors.
Just because of control issues?
Yeah, because I really truly believe in What I enjoy is the simple things in life.
I don't like to be controlled, like a nine-to-five situation where you're doing this endlessly.
Plus, I don't like business skills, so I'm more of my own worst enemy in all this stuff, too, because that's just the way I am.
Well, maybe you need a business manager, John.
Yeah, that would help.
Have you thought about that?
That would help.
Somebody who would look out for your business interests?
That would indeed help, Art.
Because people who have talents in your area Rarely have.
You know, social talents rarely have business talents.
Very bad business talents.
They usually have their nose stuck squarely in the middle of their work and anything else is extraneous to that.
In fact, almost everything else is extraneous to that.
Yeah, I tend to get that way.
And then I tend to also live quite a social life sometimes when I go off to L.A.
or visiting people.
You're not as much of a recluse as I imagined you might be, kind of stuck in your lab doing this sort of thing.
I'm a fairly sociable character.
I get sidetracked.
I like to get into some engineering projects and restoration of some old ham radio equipment from Fair Radio.
No, I don't drink.
or something like that, or I might get an inspiration to build a cannon or something
on the lathe.
A cannon.
Yeah, just a cannon.
Something I like working with steel.
I like the way the lathe chuck is turning.
It's just an engineering project kind of thing.
I just sometimes get sick of it all and say, well, gee, I've got to get out of here and
then I'll go visiting.
Let's go have a beer or something, right?
No, I don't drink.
I'm in to have life experience.
Okay, all right, listen John, hold on.
When we get back, what we'll do is open up the phone lines.
It should be very interesting, indeed, and allow people to ask you questions, because those claims, they're pretty fantastic, all right?
Okay, all right.
Good.
Stay right where you are.
So, you've got the numbers.
If you'd like to question John about anything at all, you're welcome to.
In the middle of the night, this is Coast to Coast AM.
It is the night, my heart is weak. I'm on the run, no time to sleep.
I've got to ride, ride like the wind, to be free again.
And I've got such a long way to go, to make it to the border of Mexico.
Ain't got no trouble in my life.
you No foolish dream to make me cry.
I'm never frightened or worried.
I know I always get by.
When something gets in my way, I go around it.
Don't let life get me down.
Gonna take it the way that I found it.
I got music in me.
From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
Filling in for George, tonight's special guest host is Art Bell.
To talk with Art, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
775-727-1295. The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1295.
East of the Rockies, call 800-825-5033.
And west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
International callers may reach ARC by calling the AT&T International Operator and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
800-618-8255. International callers may reach ARC by calling the AT&T International Operator
and dialing toll free 800-893-0903. Now for George Norrie, special guest host, ARC Bell.
guest host Art Bell.
And I think that would be me.
Good morning, everybody.
You've got to take what you're hearing tonight, I think, in one of two ways, from John.
Donna Hutchison is my guest.
The Hutchison Effect, the subject.
And when you're talking about the levitation of material things, the liquification of metal, the possible, I don't know, bending of time-space, that kind of thing, you've either got to say, look, we're dealing with a total lunatic here who's lying his butt off to us, or Maybe there really is something to this.
I certainly can't dismiss it totally.
I don't, because I've seen things.
I've experienced things myself.
I can't dismiss it totally, but I guess, you know, you could look at John as someone who's just plain not telling you the truth.
You'd have to wonder why.
I think we'll talk about that aspect and take phone calls in a moment.
I'm going to be a little bit more specific.
Crazy?
Prevaricator?
Huckster?
I would imagine, John, that you understand that a lot of people, when they hear of these kinds of claims, particularly, you know, physicists, for example, PhDs, people in the sciences, people even in industry who might be interested in what you're doing, potentially interested, certainly, if your claims were true, They might be tempted to call you lots of those things, and to call you crazy.
There's such fantastic claim.
Do you either have to react to it with enough interest to pursue it and try and figure out what's going on here that's so incredible, or just dismiss it and throw one of those words out?
I guess you're used to dealing with that, right?
Actually, I've had a few negative comments from academics.
From all the scientists I've met, they seem to be involved with the military-industrial complex throughout the United States, Germany, and that has no negativity.
They seem to have quite an interest in it.
It's out there, but I've had a few problems with academics.
I would think.
That really got upset when they were interviewed on one of the TLC specials.
I would think.
Yes.
In other words, they always sort of try to bring on somebody to tell the other side of it or to comment on what they just have shown.
Well, these academics, they don't know the real stuff.
They're just taught what they know in school and that.
They get kind of bent out of shape when you start talking anti-gravity and melting metals and things disappearing and floating through walls.
Yes, indeed.
I think you're a raving lunatic.
I remember when my sponsor there went out to the University of British Columbia and he started talking and then, oh, we don't touch that area.
The guy just sort of backed off real quick.
And then the same thing sort of happened in the Pentagon in the early days when they took the film there.
One general really got upset and said, you can't show that stuff in here.
And then the other general said, well, what if it's true?
Are you ready to go see Reagan right away about it?
So something was a deal.
Raving Lunatic wasn't in my little list here, but I'll add it.
It's right down the line there, Raving Lunatic.
All right.
All right.
Here comes some phone calls.
Let's see what people have to say.
All right.
OK.
All right.
First time caller line, you're on the air with John Hutchison and Art Bell.
Hello.
Hello.
Hello there.
Oh, hello.
Am I on?
Yes, indeed you are.
You're on.
Crazy.
Absolutely wonderful.
Thanks so much for taking my call, Art.
Sure, sure.
John, man, I'm just really geeked about this.
I've been following your work for about eight years and I'm really excited.
Probably the one thing I want to make sure I can get to ask you while you're here is Are you doing any types of seminars or workshops across the United States that we could go and, you know, get some type of a one-on-one, well, not necessarily one-on-one, but be in a room with you and be able to... Yeah, fair enough.
Seminars, talks, doing any of that, John?
No, most of it getting a lot of television crews coming and going out of here in the last month or so.
Yeah, it's a good TV kind of story.
You know, send them in, hey, let's see something float in the air, you know?
I do like live communication with people.
I did have one in Denver, Colorado in 1994, and it was real fast.
But the spirit of the question was, you don't have any coming up?
No, not that I'm aware of.
Because I was thinking, in your defense, I mean, A lot of the stuff that Nikolai Tesla did, and he's basically responsible for all of our lighting and electrical current to our homes and whatnot today.
He was working on a lot of the same types of items that you're working on.
He was ridiculed the same way too.
Very much so, and that was my point.
Even though we've got so much from him, he was extremely ridiculed.
And so I just, one of the ways of ending that type of thing, and I was just wondering if it would be possible that you did any type of workshops or started some type of a network where if you could give engineers, you know, I'm not talking just anybody, but you know, electrical engineers or anybody who you felt comfortable enough with, kind of like a shopping list of how to reproduce the effects, even if it's just small, small types of effects.
Would you be open to doing anything like that?
And where could we, you know, get a hold of you?
I mean, I go to the, you know, your zero point, your rumormillednews.com, and I try and follow up there as well as, you know, whenever you have any shows on or whatnot.
All right, John, that's a worthwhile question.
In other words, why not go out and educate people of science to the degree that they can at least plow into an experiment that will cause their eyes to pop open?
That would be fun.
I don't mind that at all, Art.
I mean, that's getting out and socializing with people.
So if you have such an invitation, you'd be inclined to accept it and have people get a hold of you, John?
That was his question.
Oh, I think through Rumor Mills.
Rumor Mills?
I think it's Rumor Mills.
Coast has up there a display of videos.
What is that?
Rumormills.com?
Yeah, I think so.
Okay.
Is there some way to get a hold of you up there?
Some email link or address or something?
Yeah, actually there is H-Effect at Infinite.net and I'm selling videos that are four hour long.
And in these videos is, I assume, a compilation of video, visual and audio evidence of all the things you're talking about tonight, right?
Exactly, a four hour long one done by a very professional, well-respected scientist in Toronto for a very well-respected individual who actually owns his own country.
Budding scientists have to eat.
Yes.
So, you sell the tapes.
Four-hour tapes.
How much are they?
Well, they're reduced down to a hundred each.
A hundred bucks a piece?
Yeah, there's Hutchison Effect tapes, and then there's the one on all the television shows.
Let me ask you straight out, John.
If I were to order one of these tapes, or have one of these tapes, by the time I was done watching these four hours, Would I be convinced that everything you've been telling me tonight is the truth?
Exactly.
All of those videos are solid stuff.
Even a TV show.
Well, then I suppose a hundred bucks isn't too much for that.
I mean, if you suddenly became a believer in all of this, a hundred bucks wouldn't be a big investment.
And it's that good, huh?
It's that good.
I guarantee it.
All right.
Where do people call to order this or whatever?
I guess the rumor mills can get through to me, of course, on my email, which is heffect
at infinite dot net.
That's HFFECT at infinite.net.
H-E-F-F-E-C-T at infinite.net, right?
Yeah.
And also, there's a posting on Rumor Mills.
Okay.
All right.
So, these are ways to get the tape, to contact you personally by email or to order it on the website, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, I hope you sell a million of them.
Yeah, maybe that'll work.
Wouldn't that be fun?
But they are good taste.
There's no tomfoolery here.
Well, yeah.
It's not much money not to prove what you claim is the truth.
Four hours.
That's a long time.
All right.
Solid stuff.
All with the tops.
U.S.
scientists and also with the battery.
The whole thing.
All right.
I got you.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with John Hutchison.
Hi.
Hi there, Bill.
Hi, uh, actually, John, have you ever heard of a project called the Footstream Project?
Hmm, sounds familiar.
Okay, it was a project which, uh, which involved, uh, it was attempted quite a few times.
What it involved was the Einstein-Rosen Theory, the Einstein-Rosen bridge, and quite a few times the project's been stopped due to certain anomalies that were uncontrolled, and these anomalies What was this project trying to accomplish, sir?
What they were trying to do was create a wormhole.
What the Einstein-Rosen Bridge is, is a wormhole in effect.
What they were trying to do was create a wormhole.
What John is describing in his works were anomalies that were involved in such a project.
The reason why they stopped the project so many times was because those anomalies were
uncontrolled.
It seems to me there would be an inherent possible danger for everybody on the planet in the creation of a wormhole.
Oh, a wormhole.
More or less, yes.
That's a pretty big hang-up.
Yeah, exactly.
And I was just curious with your melting metal.
Did you happen to notice any energy discharges within or outside of the building where you're doing the experiment?
Very good question.
Well, yeah, unfortunate tenant upstairs here had to be taken away.
What?
By the police because he was screaming and yelling.
John has technology down there.
And yeah, I guess stuff started floating above this poor guy and the police took him out.
But the police took him away?
Yeah.
I mean, why doesn't he have a right to shout?
If things began floating around my apartment, I might be tempted to shout it, too.
No, I don't blame people, because the police were called here a number of times when I was attempting to... And so they hauled the guy away?
Yeah.
With him screaming about your technology?
And the film crew people, which was... And the film... Griffin Productions.
Also, I was curious about, John, is... Oh, dear.
Had anybody suffered, or were there any ill effects to Any persons within the proximity of the device for physical operation of the human body, your blood stream is comprised of iron.
Yeah, I mean, look what happened with the Philadelphia Experiment, for example.
There were, you know, if all of that is true, some real tragedies occurred, and that's got to be something you thought about every time you turned on that field, John.
Back to here, you know, working.
But all the team members, including Colonel Alexander and all the others,
are all okay, raised healthy families, and none of us suffered any ill effects.
And nobody ended up in the middle of the cement in your basement or something?
No.
Nothing.
somewhere else.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hutchison.
Hello.
Number one, I can't take your name on the air.
Number two, your audio is so distorted I could never understand a word.
Number one, I can't take your name on the air.
Number two, your audio is so distorted I could never understand a word you'd say.
I have no idea what you were on there, but it was not a good phone.
West of the Rockies, let's try you.
You're on the air with John Hutchison.
Hello.
Hello there.
I was wondering if you've ever incorporated color into your equations.
What do you mean color?
Just maybe using a beam of light through a colored glass or something like that.
So color in the equation somehow.
Well, I read laser.
We tried to do a bit of an influencing and testing to see if it would bend a laser light.
That's the only thing that we ever did back in the 80s.
And I take it you did not bend it?
We couldn't get a proper measurement on it.
It seemed like it, but we couldn't really say that it happened or not.
You know, I did say earlier in the program, I think just before you got on, that it's my view that a lot of regular scientists wouldn't do the kind of experiments you're doing, or even endeavor to do them, because they're academically tied to a rule that says, that can't be, therefore I won't attempt it.
And so they will never attempt it, as people like you Who are not chained to these allegedly academic realities, and so you just plow ahead and do it anyway.
Yeah, because I like history, and I like to study history of electrical mechanical engineering, and a lot of people did some very interesting things a long time ago.
You take 1927, there was a fellow by the name of T. Henry Morey, who had, much like you, these long wire antennas, and he built up these Using old vacuums, 21-1As, I believe, with the four pins.
Yes.
Made out these transistors out of iron sulfide and some other metals.
This thing was able to draw in a lot of energy and power light bulbs.
Documented in the book called, I think it was called, The Sea of Energy, but it happened.
I mean, this event happened, but why, you know, why does it disappear?
I don't know, John.
What is knowledge of these things disappearing?
I'm not really sure.
I'm searching for the answer.
It's like alternative medicine, Art.
For that one, myself.
You know, it's just the same thing.
All this stuff is all coming out of the game.
Well, aliphatic medicine is kind of... Yes, indeed.
Hold on one.
You're on the air, Coast to Coast.
I am with John Hutchison and Art Bell.
Top of the morning to you.
Where are you, please?
Me?
Yes.
I'm from, my name's Jeff.
I'm from Ferguson, Missouri.
All right, Jeff.
Do you have a question for John?
Yes.
Will the zero-point energy field help with time travel or inter-dimensional travel?
Interesting question.
It sure is, yes.
Time morphage.
Because if you want to build a time machine, you get into a rocket that goes at light speed out there.
But why not curve it?
Or you don't have to go on a rocket ship, you could be right here.
And I believe we had that kind of thing happen because we'd have metal samples or rock samples that would disappear and not reappear or reappear.
But they look like they aged, like they're all shriveled up.
Yes, that's very, very intriguing to me.
And we'd have these weird... What have you done that with?
And we're talking about a material in this field, actually.
To our eyes, disappearing, and then reappearing in the same place within the field, John, or a different place, or what?
Different location.
In a different location, how different?
I mean, ten feet from where you are, a half mile, what?
No, no, I'd say maybe five, six feet.
Five or six feet away, and when they reappear, which is how long, generally, how long have they actually gone to your eyes?
From our eyes, it seems like it could be They were there, and they're not there, and then, well, we're too busy with the experiment.
Then later on, when we shut down and make sure everything's shorted out, then we find the thing.
Then it's, I'll be damned, there it is, kind of deal.
Yeah, over another location.
So you really don't know how long, necessarily, it was gone.
No, we don't.
You saw it disappear, and you thought perhaps it had just gone, gone.
Yeah, and then it reappears.
And then, of course, these kind of samples, I had the German crew at Max Planck Institute look them over, and they said there's dark material in there.
Some kind of dark material and some of it is still transparent without any kind of energy fields around it.
This documentation, luckily, I have that.
What kind of materials?
Give me an example.
Silicates and iron.
Combinations that appear there in some very dark, dense material.
There seem to be many weights, let's say, well, of iridium.
It seems to be microscopic embedded in this material.
Which, you know, the results were released to me through Roland in Germany there.
Did I ever tell you the story of Madman Markham?
I don't think so.
Really?
Madman Markham?
Is this a... No.
Okay.
I'm all ears, Art.
Really?
You haven't heard the story of Madman Markham?
Don't think so.
Is this about time travel?
Oh, yeah.
We don't know the answer to that, John.
It's about perhaps it's about time travel.
It may simply be about the death of a crazy kid.
I don't know.
But yeah, I'll tell you the story because it's beginning to sound eerily very much like what you're describing on the show tonight.
Items disappearing, appearing older, that kind of thing.
So I think we will dig into that briefly when we get back at the bottom of the hour.
My guest is John Hutchison.
And I'm sure that in your mind, you're going to either classify him as a way out nut that you just can't listen to, or could he be somebody who's unearthed something very old and still effective?
I don't know.
You make that call.
We'll be right back.
I'm going to be asking you what's going on.
Why don't you ask him?
Where are those happy days?
They seem so hard to find.
I tried to reach for you but you have closed your eyes.
I'm not sure what to do.
It's so late.
The love you gave me nothing else can save me, SOS When you're gone, how can I even try to go on?
When you're gone, though I try, how can I carry on?
Premier Radio Networks presents Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
And now, filling in for George, here's special guest host, Art Bell.
George is probably off on an island somewhere sipping martinis with pretty island girls and palm fronds and... It's probably not that, but that's what you want to imagine, right?
Anyway, he's recharging his batteries with some good zero-point something or another, and he'll be back Monday.
In the meantime, I'm Art Bell.
How you doing?
My guest is John Hutchison, and he's either, I suppose, from many points of view out there, a total raving lunatic, or he's a man on to something that could literally save civilization, pull it up by its bootstraps, and give it the energy it's gonna need to survive.
We'll be right back.
I'm curious, John.
Very curious.
Do you invite more media attention?
I mean, after doing this program, for example, you get calls from, I don't know, the BBC, Independence up there, American television stations or networks that want to come and film your effect.
Do you invite that?
Do you want that?
Or is that a pain in the butt?
I kind of enjoy interacting with people.
You know, if you get a good producer and director, it's kind of fun to do these things because I find kids love it.
You know, the finished product, I get kind of shy.
I don't want to go outside, you know.
I kind of hide away for a while when it airs.
I hear sirens back there.
They're not coming for you, are they?
Uh, no.
They did once, but, you know.
So, in other words, anyway, you wouldn't mind media attention?
No, I've been used to it.
I've been... I did about 60...
Well, that's somebody who's a believer in what they're doing.
Well, like interacting with people, you know.
Well, here's a person on the international line.
You're on the air with John.
Where are you calling from, please?
Hello, Art.
It's Jeff.
I'm calling from the UK.
Yes, Jeff.
I was wondering, actually, if John had anything that he might know about... Well, actually, quite a lot of companies now that are dealing in anti-gravity, the American anti-gravity trans-dimensional technologies, John Louis Newdon Labs.
They're doing a lot on lifter technology.
Then there's ones that were just taken out of the XPRIZE.
They were trying to get in.
They're Hungary-based.
I think they were funded by Joe Faramiga or something.
But they have a company called Gravity Control Technologies.
Even British Aerospace isn't on yet with Project Green Duo.
But the one that most interests me is Dr. Ling Ni.
She used to be working under a NASA grant in Huntsville, Alabama.
And she was progressing Eugene Podokov's research that he was doing in Finland.
And apparently, the equipment that they've made was able to do a bit of levitation.
So, I was just wondering if you had any comments on those.
Oh, the LifterTech used to do that.
That's been around since the dawn of time, actually from the 20s.
It's got some actually neat video footage of it.
It's high voltage DC applied to a very light frame.
And I used to actually do that just for fun in my other labs there with the high voltage.
So I don't know if it has any merits because it's kind of like what you'd do in a micro Van de Graaff generator experiment kind of thing or a high voltage ion driven thingy.
T. Townsend Brown actually did a lot of research in that area himself.
So he's suggesting that there are others progressing with this elsewhere in the world.
Does that concern you?
Oh, of course not.
I like to see it get out there.
Okay, so you're not threatened?
Oh, good heavens, no.
Have you applied for any patents on any aspect of your project?
No, because most of it is all military.
But isn't that how people eventually make money?
They discover some process not known before, and then patent it, and it's all theirs, and then they're the next Bill Gates, right?
Yeah.
Trying to do it on my own with a little battery, of course, but it takes lawyers and lawyers cost money and that kind of stuff.
That's all true.
I'm a very bad business person.
I mean, I couldn't sell a gold brick to somebody.
You know, it's just one of those things.
All right.
First time caller line.
You're on the air with John Hutchison.
Hello.
Hey there.
Hey, great to have you back.
It's good to hear you.
Thank you.
I love George, but I love you better.
Regarding the research that you're doing, Mr. Hutchinson, when Tesla was doing his research regarding where zero-point energy comes from or whatever, he stumbled onto something that I think they call the magic wave.
I don't know.
It was like radiant energy emanating or resonating from the sun at a frequency that I can't really recall.
I don't remember if it was like 140 hertz or 1.4.
I think there was a 1 and a 4.
The electronics engineer.
We just lost him.
Oh, he disappeared.
Yeah.
That was no fun.
I'm not a prompter.
I'm not working on anything here.
That was at a really important juncture.
There, boom, it's gone all together.
That was my circuit disconnecting.
He just blinked out in an awfully important moment, didn't he?
Yeah, he kind of just disappeared.
Oh, I promise I wasn't working on anything, Art.
I wasn't so much thinking of you, to be honest, as I was some others, but I'll just let that go and move on here.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with John Hutchison.
Hello.
Hi, how are you doing?
Well, okay.
All right.
I wanted to ask your guest, does he have much control over whether he levitates things or propels them or... Liquifies them.
Right.
In other words, what happens?
Do you have much control?
Have you been able to actually narrow it down to A specific application of energy for a specific effect?
Pretty well in the late 80s.
I was getting very, very good at that area because I was replacing some of the Tesla technology with vacuum tube technology where you hold a more stable frequency.
Yes.
And these things seem to, the effects happen a lot more per hour.
You talk, thank you Carl, you talk so much about the 80s.
Yeah.
You did all the experiments in the 80s and all this is proven as just a fact as far as you're concerned.
You're selling the tapes now.
Yeah.
And so you're just talking about, you're not even going further with a new lab and current experiments and going further.
It's more than in the 90s, more of invitations to Japan and other countries to go on lecture tours.
And there was a huge, huge, in Hiroshima City, a huge Tesla lab set up there for me.
But it just seemed to be, I call it the roaring 90s, of doing... The 90s were roaring for you.
You did the work in the 80s.
It got noticed and to some degree funded in the 90s.
But now, not so much.
Is that true?
Well, it seems to me more media people are coming here and more people, especially with Nick's book that just was released too, Lockheed Martin has a technology kind of thing, things are rolling faster in regards to interest around the world.
I guess it's because it's spread all over the world.
Well, John, it's also because the world is running out of oil.
Yep.
And there are going to be an increasing number of people interested in exploring areas of alternative energy, even getting desperate eventually.
Well, I've had U.S.
Congressmen come right here and talk to me.
The result of which was?
How much would it cost to build a unit to power a house?
And I gave the estimate of $5 million dollars research.
Five million to develop a prototype, you mean?
That's basically it, yes.
Congressman Berkley.
I'll just say Berkley and leave the last name out.
He's a friend of mine who came personally here in 98 and wrote me a letter.
Well, that's actually a hell of a good question.
Can you believe, then, that given five million dollars, you could develop a unit that would power a house from, for lack of a better term, the ether?
I would think so, yes.
You need a good scientific team with an understanding of many aspects of engineering and of microchip technology, vacuum depositing technology.
It can be done.
If it was done on a Manhattan-style project art, it can be done.
Well, it might take more.
$5 million doesn't very much fund the pencils and pens used by most government projects of that sort.
I mean, $5 million wouldn't be anything at all.
That's quite an offer.
My offer there that I sent out, but done on a Manhattan-style project with proper scientists, well-renowned scientists that you and I both know, like Hal Pudof and others we both know.
It could be done, I'm sure of it.
A team effort.
Okay.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hutchison.
Hello.
Hello, this is Michael in Norfolk, Virginia.
Yo.
Yes, I've been listening to you, John.
You're very believable.
I don't get the sense that you're trying to deceive anybody here.
But I do feel there are some contradictions in your approach to this thing.
They may be entirely innocent.
Or I assume that they're entirely innocent.
Give us an idea of what you mean.
Well, this is not the first time I've heard John on this program.
The last time was more than two years ago.
Basically, I'm a little disappointed in what you've done in providing information to Art Bell.
In what area?
Well, he had the tapes back then, and yet it sounds as though you've still not seen them.
I'm proposing that there's a fundamental problem here for scientists of the category of John Hutchinson.
uh... who who come on this program they aren't able to find support
and i think we need something like a coast-to-coast am foundation
which will uh...
see to it that there is more progress done uh... when people like this come forward in coordinating
the information raising funds and we've been listening to john uh... for some hours
now and you said even earlier broadcast so let me ask you a question
If somebody came to you and they laid all this out for you, and said, would you pony up some of your own dollars to support this, would you do it?
I'd do it in a heartbeat.
You would?
Absolutely.
That's the important question, and if you really would, then maybe such a thing would work.
Who knows?
I must admit I still have some doubts.
I'm intrigued because I know there's something to this.
I just don't know how much yet.
I know there's something here because I've observed it myself.
Well, I talked to Dean Radin two and a half years ago when he was on with Mike Siegel.
He's a very serious scientist, as you know.
You've talked to him.
I've interviewed a dean, so of course I know.
And at four time, he was being backed by Paul Allen, Bill Gates' founding partner at Microsoft.
He may still be, to some degree.
But his basic cry was a lack of funds.
We get all these talented people on this program.
They're definitely not going to get support in the mainstream academic and science community.
I'd say that's right.
So we've got to do something.
Although, you know, and this is an important question for me.
If everything John has told us is true and is so easily confirmed by videotape or even further experiments or, you know, whatever the hell it takes, It's so fantastic that it's hard to imagine a university would have not, by now, glommed onto it as an incredible project to take in and make their own with John, given all the freedom to do whatever he needs, and dollars, and all the rest of it.
I mean, why hasn't that happened?
Well, I mean, you're very busy, Art, and so it's understandable why you can't review the material of everybody that comes on the show.
Nobody's that busy.
I mean, if John had sent me the tapes, I'd be looking at them.
Well, am I going to get interested enough to pony up a hundred bucks?
I don't know.
I'm being honest with you.
I don't know.
I have reservations about all of this, but I also have deep interests, so I guess I'm still out there on the fence somewhere.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you know, he's touched on a lot of areas.
He's talked about the Ark of the Covenant.
Like so many of your guests, there's these crossover All right.
Well, I'm certainly not against such an idea, nor would I be the organizer for it.
So the idea's out there now.
Somebody wants to glom onto it.
But yeah, there ought to be a fund, it seems to me, for investigating and then funding people like yourself, John.
Who are doing things and just making claims that would, you know, change the world we live in, if it's true, that should be enough to get somebody looking and coming to somebody like you and getting you funded so this can move forward despite what the giants out there think.
What do you think?
It is interesting because there has been actually major Billionaire funders that funded other people to duplicate my work.
uh... i'd that's an area don't really get into be a very political but
i uh... i think that uh... that's an intriguing idea and in uh... it is no doubt about it was the rockies you're
on the other john hutchinson hello
boom that's a military deploying little microwave truck
the devil parabolic
near thing on the back was to the rockies call toll-free one eight hundred six one
eight eight two five five
you imagine what would happen if they took your technology and put it on their
input about combat Well, first of all, I wasn't aware that our border patrol was... Oh yeah, I'm here in Arizona.
I'm sorry, I'm in Phoenix, Arizona.
And so you know that they're using a device to keep people, that radiates heat?
Is that, or microwaves, or what?
Yeah, it's a device that sends out a low-frequency microwave that creates a heat wave on the surface of the skin and makes it very uncomfortable to be exposed to it.
It made all the papers down here.
Okay, well, I'm not doubting you.
I just hadn't heard it.
That's all.
It's very interesting.
And so, from that, you're saying what?
I was just wondering if they were to take the frequency bands that he's talking about and melt the tank in combat in a moment's notice.
And I was wondering if he's exposed any living flesh, like ice or anything, to the field to see what the effect was.
Yeah, it seems to me that if they were to deploy a field like that, the one Mr. Hutchison is telling us about tonight, well, you'd end up with people in the fence, quite literally.
And you're going to mention Mad-Mag-Mark.
I am indeed going to mention him, and he was a man who called this program, who was much like yourself in a lot of ways, John.
He stole some transformers from the power company in order to construct this device that he eventually walked through, which he claimed at one point, in a small-scale model, had made a bolt when he put it through the field, this high-voltage field, modulated with lasers and a bunch of other stuff.
Anyway, it made it disappear and reappear.
Oh, I love that.
And it sounded just like what you were doing.
And then, he actually, I know this all happened, because I talked to his parole officer on the air, in fact, and you see they caught him stealing the Transformers, and he was then getting a warehouse, and he was going to construct this device, and he was going to walk through it, and I believe that he did, and we haven't heard from him since, and that's the Madman Markham story.
He thinks he might have walked through what he'd built, thought it might have been a time portal.
But you've got to imagine one or two things are true.
John, one, that he's a pile of dust on the floor right now when he tried to walk through and all he did was electrocute himself and fry himself but good.
Or, he now is at another time.
He's left this time frame and he's in another time.
Nobody really knows, but it's been years and we haven't heard from him and that was the last and that story as it was, but he was dealing with a lot of things that sounded very much like what you're talking about, John.
Well, Art, I remember another story I think was brought up by George Norrie about some time traveler that went back in time in a cylinder and he was crushed and there would appear to be old photographs from the 30s or something like that.
A lot of weird stories.
Another one floating around about a guy who made zillions of dollars in the market and Uh, the authorities at the Securities and Exchange Commission were investigating him, and he said he was a time trial.
It's all kinds of weird stories.
Listen, my friend, we are out of time.
Already?
Uh, it's been a pleasure having you on.
I'm glad you told your story.
I hope it comes to fruition.
And I'd like to wish you a happy birthday.
Delayed, of course, from myself and Arielle Louise.
Thank you very much.
And from Russ there, who sent you all the business cards of all your guests, sir.
It is.
Yes, and bless his heart.
Isn't it just great getting together with people of similar mind?
John, thank you.
You're very welcome, Martin.
You have a great evening and a great tomorrow.
Indeed I shall.
Thank you and good night.
Well, there you have it.
Certainly out on the edge.
No question about being on the edge.
That's John.
If all of what he says is true, then it's a different world that could be right in front of us, right?
If even a portion of what he says is true, it would be a very different world, if proven to be so.
And we do, after all, live in a world in which we don't understand all that we see.
And we don't understand all we're told about.
But it was a little bit of an adventure, I would say, tonight, listening to John.
Wouldn't you?
It's been a pleasure.
Until next we meet, and there will be no doubt another vacation or something or another, this is Crystal to take us out from the high desert.
Good night.
Midnight in the desert Shooting stars across the sky This magical journey Will take us on a ride We're filled with a longing, searching for the truth Will we make it till tomorrow?
Will the sun shine on you?
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