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Dec. 4, 2002 - Art Bell

02:19:40

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Confessions of a Dangerous Mind - Chuck Barris

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42:27

chuck barris

01:02:27

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unidentified		To reach our bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the full-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
		If what we're doing these days with clones and creation of life and all the rest of it isn't enough to stand the hair on the back of your neck straight up, this photograph on my website right now is.
		This is one of the best or the worst, depending on your point of view, I always have to add, that I've ever seen.
		I mean, this is just raw stuff.
		It's went up about 10 minutes ahead of airtime, like most things.
		It's totally bad.
		I mean, this is, again, no reflection on this man's father.
		He believes it to be the image of his father, and he thinks there's no mistaking it.
		But I don't know, man.
		I look at that face.
		And again, no offense, sir, but we're talking pure evil here.
		This looks like pure evil to me, the real McCoy evil, you know.
		Maybe it was just a fellow's attitude in life, the grumpiness.
		He said grumpiness, that's a pretty mild word.
		This is really bad.
		It's under what's new at artbell.com.
		Right now, you're going to want to take a look at this.
		As horrible as this photograph is, I just noticed something else about it.
		God, it's an evil-looking entity.
		It would appear to be at the top of a stairwell in what is said to be a remodeled area, and it looks like it's halfway through the wall.
		No, it's three-quarters of the way through the wall on the visual side.
		The other quarter of it, I don't think you can see.
		I could be wrong about that, but it looks like it's partway through the wall or door or whatever is there at the top of this stairwell.
		This thing is pretty awful.
		In the world of awful, you know, it's like 10 on a scale of 10.
		www.arbell.com.
		It will be the first item under what's new.
		Let me see.
		Yep.
		Dad's Ghost Appears in Photo is what you want to click on when you get there.
		And also check out the CD that allows you to actually own artbell.com as it rolls into its last 30 days of history.
		And there is a lot of history associated with this website.
		First time caller line, you are on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Well, hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I'm just a girl from Nevada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just a girl from Nevada.
unidentified		Who has a story?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to tell you a little story very quickly.
		As you know, I'm in Nevada too.
		I'm in Perump, Nevada.
unidentified		Yes, I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you know that Perump, Nevada, as part of Nye County, has legal brothels?
unidentified		Oh, yes, sir, I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You did know that I do.
		I think a lot of the country knows that.
		There are people who have fun at our expense here in Perump.
		And you know what they call young Perumpian women?
unidentified		What would that be?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Brothel Sprouts.
		Hi, isn't that awful?
		Hi, isn't that awful?
unidentified		Brothel sprouts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God, of course it's not true.
unidentified		Well, that's pretty cute.
		Pretty cute.
		It's a nice way to put it, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, hon, what's up?
unidentified		Well, I've been trying to get in touch with someone just recently in the past couple of years, which included the first time Stephen Greer, then Whitley Streiber, and then actually yourself.
		But I seem to move right after, and I've lost contact, so nobody could actually have gotten back with me anyway.
		What I wanted to say was, especially since Robert Lazar just was on the other day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bob Lazar, yes.
unidentified		Yes, well, back in the 70s, about 76 or so, I met him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You met Bob?
unidentified		I met him while I was dealing blackjack in a small town outside.
unidentified		Well, actually, it was in Mesquite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He is an incredible person.
unidentified		Oh, yes, but I have more than just having met him.
		We have a long version, we have a short version, we have an exciting one, or I could just tell you the facts.
		Let's go.
		Tell me as we go, okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You pick the one you like and go.
unidentified		I've never done this before, so let's just go for it.
		That's all right.
		Okay, well, you asked me the question, so I don't make sense.
		But it was like 1976 or so, and I was dealing blackjack in a little place, mesquite, and you get to know everybody there in a small town.
		Of course, I'm from Pennsylvania.
		It's the first time I've ever done anything like dealing with blackjack and mesquite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, let's get to the Bob Lazar part.
unidentified		Well, there I was doing it, and I knew he wasn't from there, and I said, hey, what are you passing through?
		He says, no, I work down the road.
		I said, oh, I said, well, gee, chicken ranch.
		He says, that's the only thing out there.
		He says, no, he says, there's a base out there I work on.
		I said, oh, you mean you're with Mellis?
		He says, well, no, not really.
		It's sort of a private base.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, this is very interesting because it validates to some degree Bob Lazar's story.
		As you know, a lot of people cast aspersions on the story that he ever worked out there and they expunged all records, virtually making him into a non-person.
		So if he actually told you that offhand, that's kind of some interesting corroboration for what he said.
unidentified		I have a whole lot more, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll keep going.
unidentified		Okay, so I have been afraid to talk about this because I knew he was a non-person, and my family encouraged me not to.
unidentified		And this has been a very long time, and I just can't take it anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Keep going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Keep going.
unidentified		Mr. Lazar said, I work out there.
		I said, well, I go, what do you do?
		And he says, I'm a rocket scientist.
		I said, yeah, and I've been visited by aliens.
		He says, no, I really am.
		I said, well, no, I really have.
		Which led us into my belief, the fact that I believed in ships and aliens and felt I had been contacted throughout my life myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Therefore, he proceeded.
		He said he could show me real ships and that they were working on recreating models that they had.
		I says, yeah, right.
		I said, prove it.
		What time you get off?
		11.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		He and I then proceeded out hours out somewhere from his gate, and I really wasn't sure where I was.
		It was very dark.
		I thought I went to the left side of the road, which was in the southwest of Nellis Air Force Base, in my mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you normally get in cars and go to remote locations with people who say they've seen alien craft?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just a question.
unidentified		Well, Mr. Lazar seemed so unviolent and unoffensive and on all those words that most men are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he is very unaffected, yes.
unidentified		And I took him to be exactly at his word.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you know, telling a good-looking lady, a black-jack dealer, a story like this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It ranks right up there beyond what's your sign.
unidentified		Well, I'm sorry, but I have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he took you out into the middle of, no doubt, Area 51 or near it or something?
		We got further, sir.
		Did you get near S4?
unidentified		I saw signs with that.
		I saw they're going to shoot you if you go any further.
		I remember seeing the black mailbox that you turned at.
		Oh, yes.
		We proceeded up to a mountain, and we went up there, and he had me walking way up there.
		And we'd already been gone a long time.
		I looked over it, and he goes, there it is.
		There's Groom Lake.
		Well, I'm looking for a lake.
		I don't see a lake, but I see buildings.
		And they're like way far off, and we're not even there yet.
		We get back into his car and we start to proceed.
		As we do so, when I missed like the mailbox turns and all that, I don't remember.
		And we did stop at the alien on the way in.
		But anyway, we get up there, and as we go to leave down the mountain to go, Fury says, you want to go further?
		I said, yes.
		They stopped us with these like light green or yellow blazers.
		And security came up to the car, and I was hiding in the back under something, and he knew who he was.
		So he let us proceed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bob Lazar was recognized and allowed to proceed.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		I was really scared then because...
		It's true, so I think it would be good if I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just give me your first name.
unidentified		Paulette.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Paulette, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That really is your name?
unidentified		That really is my name.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Paulette, because I'm going to be asking Bob about this.
unidentified		That's what I want.
		Okay.
		That's what I want to call conversation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Paulette, let's keep going.
		He was allowed to proceed.
		You were hiding in the back of the car then what?
unidentified		Yes.
		And I thought this was all silly until that moment.
		You know what I mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And then I was scared.
		I thought, oh, my gosh, I'm hiding in the back.
		And we are now.
		You know, these guys are serious, okay?
		And they were scared.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they are serious.
unidentified		So we proceeded up to, turned right into, and I saw this long field.
		And on the left side was a large hangar with a couple large doors and a small door to walk into.
		And at the end of the field, which I'm still looking for a lake.
		It's not a lake.
		It's some kind of landing strip.
		At the end of it is some kind of tower I could see.
		And we stopped the car and we entered into the building of the hangar where the ships were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You got in that building?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you saw the ships?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Describe to me and everybody what you saw, please.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Well, it was kind of dark in there because he just turned on the lights up towards the front.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
unidentified		But as we walked in, I remember a little ha-ha because they had those like people movers that they, those velvet things and the gold poles that they have where movie theaters are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And I laughed.
		I thought, yeah, this is going to get people away from here.
		Ha ha ha.
		Anyway, there was a cigarette-shaped one, a cigar-shaped one, first.
		Then in the middle was a little round, kind of a teardrop-looking thing, like a little helicopter without its top.
		And the third one is the one that I actually saw more of and entered into.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You entered this craft?
unidentified		Yes.
		The third one was made of sort of, it looked like wings of a butterfly that you could look through.
		Had like little veins going through it.
		And I remember it to be a yellow.
		Okay.
		I remember seeing hydroglyphic type markings.
		It was very small.
		I'm 5'2 ⁇ , and I had to bend over and crawl in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it was obviously meant for small beings of some sort.
unidentified		All right.
		What clicked my memory on this, which I have to remember that after this all happened, I had no memory of this till about 12 years ago.
		And when I heard a report on TV in Vegas that talked about someone talking about a sports model, I remember the third ship, and I thought to myself when I saw it, he said, this is our sports model.
		And in fact, when I wrote my letter to somebody, I wrote, he said, this is our compact model.
		But I think the word was sport.
		And I thought to myself, that's the economy model.
		And I thought, no, that's not the economy model because you don't need fuel in space because everything works in wheels within wheels and reverse gravity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he got you in and he got you out.
unidentified		No, wait, they let us out.
		He was caught just like I was.
		You got to remember this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sure he will.
		How did the two of you get caught?
		And what were you doing when you got caught?
unidentified		Well, I was in the little ship looking around, goofing around.
unidentified		And he was kind of just down, I don't know, down where we walked in before we went up, walked into the ship area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And there was like a little, there was a hole, and then there was that cage look like they used to have on taxi where that guy, fat guy sat in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And right next to it, there was a hallway, and right next to it was a large plate window.
unidentified		I went over to the plate window, and I remember seeing some type of alien body of some type or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you see, Bob has never admitted to having seen either bodies or aliens.
unidentified		Now, this is part of my memory that I would like clearer, sir.
		Because I have been, what happened is they did something to my memory.
		I don't have all the details.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what keep bringing all this back?
		I mean, you just hear anything.
		Just hearing.
		Oh, okay.
unidentified		Well, Bablazar's interview.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hearing the sports model and so forth.
		I would like to keep it off.
		That's what I'm going to do.
		All right, gotcha.
unidentified		So let me say this.
		I will not swear that at that point I saw a body there, but this is the images that came from my thoughts of that time.
		So I'm not going to swear at that moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, what do you know about after you were caught?
unidentified		Okay, okay, that's what I mean.
		At that point, they zapped us or something, and I remember being...
		Yes.
		They took both of us, and we were taken through this area where that's where I remember the aliens working on these little, little, like they were all working on coverage or something.
		You know what I mean?
		They were all working on something.
		And they all looked alike, and they were all in a row, and they were all doing the same thing.
		And as they took our bodies through to this back room, we went up and all of a sudden, I mean, there's time that I don't remember, of course.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But of the other couple.
unidentified		As I woke up, Bob Lazar, myself, and two other couples were connected to a machine with electrodes on it, standing in front of a military man, which was standing in front of a large glass window, and he had a desk.
		And I said to him, please, I said, let us go.
		We won't say anything.
		And we were nude.
		And I remember looking over at Bob Lazar, and I remember thinking, oh, my God, this is so embarrassing, you know.
		And then I thought, well, he don't look so good himself, so I guess I don't have to feel that bad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My God.
unidentified		I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you swear all of this is true?
unidentified		I swear to God, the only thing I'm not sure of because of my other times I was taken, I'm not positive of the bodies, but I know of everything else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's fair.
		I mean, you're clear on that, right?
		Here's what I want you to do, Paulette.
		I want you to contact me privately.
		I have email at artbell at mindspring.com.
		Art Bell.
		Artbell at mindspring.com.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And provide me with a phone number, which I will not give out, I promise you, to anybody else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I want to talk to you, and I want to talk to Bob, and I want to follow up on this story, all right?
unidentified		You know how happy that would make me because it's something I've wondered about myself all these years, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Paulette, you do it.
		I'll do it.
		Thank you.
		Thank you very much.
		You get me the information.
		I will follow up and then I'll follow up for all of you.
		Oh, you never know.
		Wild Card line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		This is Chris from Minnesota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Chris.
		What's up?
		Hello.
unidentified		And boy, that's a tough one to follow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, give it a try.
unidentified		Two quick things before I get to my main point.
unidentified		I saw an interview recently with Jerry Lewis, and he apparently has this remote control device that he uses to trigger some sort of device.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, for his back, yes, I know.
		I'd rather not talk about my back.
		Anyway, what's up, sir?
unidentified		And then the other thing is, before you leave the air for retirement, I would love to hear your Ouija board story that for all these years you've refused to tell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I will refuse and take that one to my grave.
		Anything else?
		Yeah.
unidentified		I recently was watching Entertainment Tonight, and they're doing a movie about Chuck Beres and his story, and I'd be interested in hearing if...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that movie is about to come out.
		I mean, it's just about to be released.
		Chuck Beres is an incredible...
		I mean, for television, Chuck Barris is just an absolute icon.
		Chuck Barris is a flat-out icon, no matter what you think.
		And, you know, there are a lot of people, and I'm going to talk to Chuck about this.
		I mean, how many of you out there never saw either the Gong show, the newlywed game, or the dating game?
		Now, I'm sure, like many, you have ragged criticism for that kind of television.
		Oh, it's trash TV.
		God, that's trash TV.
		But almost everybody watched.
		Almost everybody watched.
		Boy, he caught the critics' barbs, I'll tell you, they pierced him more than one time.
		So, you know, in a lot of ways, Chuck and I are going to have a lot in common.
		I felt the barb of the long critics' stingers as they enter my body.
		You know, over the years, many, many, many, many times.
		But people listen.
		You know, as people watch those programs, most did not admit it, of course.
		What, me?
		You watch the dating game, the newlywed game, or the Gong Show, please.
		But oh, you bet your butt they watched in droves.
		As a matter of fact, at one time, he had more half hours on television than any other human being on the face of the planet.
		And to imagine that this man who produced this kind of and did this kind of television had a second secret life as a hitman.
		As a hitman.
unidentified		That's just outrageous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we're going to be perhaps talking to Chuck in a moment, a few moments.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Not a lot of time.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, unfortunately, I've got a Rindlesham Forest, Mount Ararad, and a Hitman story all connected by the Air Force.
		I have a good friend of mine who got out of the Air Force that was a contract hitman.
		He was a private pilot for a major corporation, which gave him a great entree into South and Central America.
		And he just sort of cruised in and out on business trips and conduct his own other business.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess that's the way it's done.
unidentified		And also, the Rendlesham Forest thing took place at R.I.F. Bentwaters Woodbridge, split base.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are aware, of course, that the British are finally going to release the secret report on all of that.
unidentified		Yes, right.
		Well, let me tell you what they were interested in, probably.
		You see, the Rendlesham Forest comes right up to the perimeter of the base at R.A.F. Woodbridge for the 78th Tank Fighter Squadron.
		My squadron's out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About 10 seconds.
unidentified		Okay, the nuclear alert pad is there, and all the nuclear weapons storage facilities are on that side of the base.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wonderful.
		I've got to run, sir.
		Come call me again, all right?
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we'll carry on with that.
		Coming up in a moment.
		From the high desert, I'm RBL.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		And start now Where am I going now that I'm going to go?
		How can I get that in the world?
		Why not?
		Let it help.
		Be the body of me moving.
		Where am I going?
		You come when the bullet hits the ball.
		You will come when the bullet hits the phone.
		I'm following that viral, destination alone.
		Go to the messenger all alone.
		Can't get no connection.
		Can't get through where I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotta listen to the words here.
unidentified		relevant.
		Well, the night was heavy on his guilty mind.
		Let's fall from the border line.
		Come ahead, man.
		Know damn well he hasn't seen it.
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Arpel from the Kingdom of High.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Top of the morning, everybody.
unidentified		This is going to be really different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The departure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coming up in a moment.
unidentified		Chuck Barris.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You should know that name, Chuck Barris.
		Jack of all trades, really.
		Creator.
		Books, music, TV.
		Chuck Barris has had some big hits.
		His rock song, if you're old enough to remember, Palisades Park, Lasharam, received a gold record.
		One of his three novels, You and Me Babe, reached number seven on the New York Times bestseller list.
		Three of the many television shows he created and produced, the dating game, the newlywed game, and of course, the Gong Show, have become TV legends.
		Now, the second of his three books, Confessions of a Dangerous Mind, is the premise of a coming film.
		The book has just been reissued.
		Barris is working on a sequel, Bad Grass Never Dies, more Confessions of a Dangerous Mind to be published next year.
		He also just released CDs of songs he sings with his band, the Hollywood Cowboys, entitled Confessions of a Dangerous Singer.
		Barris is a prize-winning still photographer, recently received a doctorate's degree from Drexel University, founded the Chuck Barris Production Company in 1965.
		In 1968, Chuck Barris Productions became the first independent television production company to go public.
		At that time, Chuck Barris Productions had made more television half hours per week.
		That would be 27 in total.
		That's incredible, than any other TV production company in the country.
		Barris was president, CEO of Chuck Barris Productions, later named Barris Industries, until the company's sale in 1986.
		In 1969, Barris Industries sold a half-hour game TV show, the parent game, to independent television stations all across the country, opening up what quickly became one of the most lucrative sides of the television industry first-run TV syndication.
		He's a member of the Friars Club of New York, New York Athletic Club, member of the board of directors of the New York Police Foundation.
		Ours lives in Manhattan, Stevens Landing, New York, with his wife Mary.
		In a moment, he'll be up.
		And one of the things that I'm going to say right now that he may later confirm, deny, or let us think what we will is the apparent statement in his book,
		and apparently to be followed up in the movie, that while he was doing all this, absolutely incredible as it may sound, while he was doing all of what I just told you about, he was a CIA hitman.
		We'll be right back.
		All right, all the way from New York, where he lives, here is Chuck Barris.
		Chuck Barris, welcome to the program.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Oh, how you doing, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing just great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And yourself?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I am fine.
		Fine and dandy for like 10 a.m.
		Quarter after two in the morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
		You're on the East Coast, aren't you?
		Right.
		All right.
		Well, you and I have a whole lot to talk about, Chuck.
		What a life you've had.
		I mean, what a life you've had.
		How in the world did you come to produce things that for their time, I mean, for today, of course, they're nothing.
		Look at the things that go on today on TV, but at the time, the dating game and the newlywed game, those kind of things, especially the dating game and the Doncha, outrageous.
		Totally, absolutely blinking outrageous.
		And so how did that come to be?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it's amazing that they were considered outrageous when you think about what's going on today, but they were.
		And I think the whole situation was that my programs, starting with a dating game, were spontaneous.
		I mean, there weren't any answers.
		There weren't any correct answers.
		It wasn't a question and answer show.
		It wasn't a stunt show.
		Everything was spontaneous, and that was brand new.
		And that happened on the Newlywood game.
		And everything else I ever did was a show that didn't have, you know, that couldn't be scripted.
		And so when you had a show that wasn't scripted, anything could happen.
		And in those days, in those days, things happened.
		And they were really scurrilous at the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I bet a lot of it didn't make it on the screen either.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, the first five shows I did were unairable, which was amazing.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		That was the first five dating shows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Unairable?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Unairable, because now we had these really cute little Doris Daylight girls and handsome guys.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		But for some reason or other, which I'll never be able to explain, when they got on the air, they just said the dirtiest things that could come to mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And in those days, we weren't allowed to say toilet.
		We couldn't say God.
		We couldn't say make love.
		We had to say make whoopee.
		Where was your favorite place with you and your husband?
		And in the newly what game, we always said make whoopee.
		But these kids said things that just knocked me out.
		I would sit up in the wee hours at night trying to figure out what possessed them to say this stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think did?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I have no idea.
		I really don't to this day.
		And so in order to save the program, because I was warned that if it continued, the program would go off there.
		I'm talking about the dating game.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Which is my first.
		I had to get a friend impersonate.
		I got an actor who impersonated someone from the FCC.
		And he told the contestants beforehand that they would go to jail if they said anything distasteful in the air, that these were FCC airwaves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You got a guy in a suit who looked kind of a little bit more.
unidentified		Yeah, I had a guy in a trench coat hat.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And that's what he did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so he'd like come on the set before the show and he'd say, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Mr. Brown from the Federal Communication Outs Commission, and here's the way it is, guys.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		$10,000 fine and 10 years in prison for saying anything, you know, off color on a government airways.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that worked?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		It worked, Art.
		And our programs were clean until, you know, basically clean.
		And then after that, years went by and then it became bleeps.
		You bleeped out dirty words or you bleeped out things and so forth and so on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you even convince some network executive to do something as outrageous for the time as a dating game?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, he must have said, are you out of your mind?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was Leonard Goldberg actually was the head of daytime programming at the American Broadcasting Company.
		And this show really didn't seem to be all that outrageous.
		Here it was, a nice, clean-cut little girl talking to three guys.
		One guy was a handsome guy.
		One guy was kind of not so handsome, and some other character, and a celebrity.
		I always try to get a celebrity in there.
		And she would ask him, it sounds good.
		I mean, it doesn't sound like that.
		And it was good.
		It was a really sweet, kind of a nice program.
		And everybody did it.
		I mean, every person out there, you know, every budding young star or whatever did the show.
		And there wasn't anything really dirty about it.
		You can make it that way, and they have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you seen Meet My Parents?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, of course.
		No, you know something, Art.
		I never have seen any of these other shows that have been on the air since then, or they're on the air today.
		I just, they don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can't do it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can't watch it?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		They don't move me.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I don't find anything exciting about them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what a lot of people said about your shows, though.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well.
		I mean, they were so canned.
		I mean, they just came after you tooth and tongue.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, when the dating game went on the air, the headline in the Chicago Tribune was, Daytime Television Hits All-Time Low.
		That was the first dating game show that went on the air.
		Now, I ask you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it hit real hard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thing was, though, see, people watched it.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they did.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And, of course, as you said, you know, not many people ever admitted they did, but they did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Obviously.
		And it got worse.
		I mean, the criticism just, it seemed to be something to criticize.
		And I would, you know, in turn bait the critics.
		I'd read their reviews on the air, and particularly on the Gong Show and stuff like that.
		But internally, it was messing me up royally.
		was it really yeah it uh...
		I don't know what I was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but didn't you balance that against, like, when the ratings came out?
		And television, man, they have ratings all the time, right?
		They've got ratings every day.
		Like every day or something.
		Yeah.
		And so, you know, as much as the criticism might have torn you up, didn't you balance it and say, well, you know, kind of like, screw you.
		Look at the ratings.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You didn't.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		As a matter of fact, no, I didn't.
		And I don't know.
		And now in retrospect, one of the things I think about a lot these days is why didn't I?
		Why did I take it so hard?
		I mean, that's a kind of wimpy thing to do.
		You know, so he can't take the heat, get it out of the kitchen, and I ran out of the kitchen.
		I mean, after about four years of the gong show, I just couldn't deal with it.
		And it really crumbled me up and I took off.
		You know, I left for Europe and I went and got rid of the company and I, and now.
		Yeah, I lived there for about eight years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you left because of all that?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, it just wanted to get the hell out and get into get away.
		And I really don't think that was the thing to do.
		You know, I really think that was a really chicken thing.
		I wasn't really doing all those.
		The stuff wasn't that bad, and I didn't have any reason to take it that hard.
		And if I had it to do over again, I probably would do the same thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you feel on the general subject of celebrity or notoriety or maybe even the word notorious would be appropriate in the way you were thinking then anyhow?
		I mean, how do you feel?
		People should be, so many people want to be celebrities.
		They should really be careful what they wish for in a lot of ways.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, it depends.
		You know, certain celebrities love it.
		I mean, if they weren't recognized and in a crowd, they would be really heartbroken.
		To me, I think it affects people totally differently.
		I couldn't take it.
		I don't know why.
		I mean, I don't have any great explanation for it.
		But I hated the thought that I couldn't go to breakfast in a luncheonette or a diner anymore without getting people asking questions or going to a movie and standing in line or going to a sporting event.
		And again, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, to do something as radical as go to France, to go live in France.
		I love Paris, by the way.
		God, what a beautiful city.
		So not so bad a place to go.
		But I mean, to be driven that far, yeah, it must really have affected you.
		I'm not so wild about celebrity either.
		It is not near so bad in radio because hardly anybody knows what you look like.
		But still in all, I'm recognized even when I go to South America as a daggant thing, and I don't really like it.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, again, I don't think this is a great attitude.
		I mean, you go up there on television.
		I mean, I'm speaking for myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that's fine.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I just go out on television and you're out there.
		These people feel that they have a kind of familiarity with you, and you should accept that.
		And there shouldn't be anything wrong with that.
		And you actually should embrace it.
		I mean, this is what you're doing.
		And these people, everybody's got a right to feel that way.
		Why you should feel angry about it and something like that, again, I don't think it's right yet.
		That's what I did.
		That was the reaction I had, like, leave me alone.
		You know, I just want to eat my little sandwich and have a cup of coffee here.
		which is, again, I think wrong.
		I don't know if I'll...
		I'm 73.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		73?
unidentified		Yeah.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		If I had it to do over again, I would be real friendly with everybody on the street.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		And I would, I mean, because I think I was kind of obnoxious and more than kind of.
		And I think that if I had to do it, I just would be nicer.
		And I wouldn't take the criticism as, you know, that way.
		This is what I think.
		But it's funny because, you know, I'm getting reviews for the book and the good reviews are great.
		But when I see a bad line in some review, I get that old feeling again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, see, then you haven't changed.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		It's a pain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		It's something that you live.
		I, too, live that same thing.
		I mean, I've been really slammed around, and I've never, even though you try and put on the face, I've never really, you know, they get me.
		I mean, it gets me.
		I read somebody who really comes after me, and it gets me.
		It does get to you.
		It goes to your soul because you're putting your soul into this.
		And so, I don't know, it just goes right to your soul.
		It's like there's no way to stop it.
		You put on a brave face, but really, it still gets you, right?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and it does.
		And it's way out of whack.
		I mean, you know, it's just a television program.
		You know, it's just a movie.
		It's just a book.
		There's a zillion other books and a zillion other movies.
		So what are you getting so upset about?
		I mean, that's the way I kind of look at it now, but it's not the way I behaved before.
		And it's a shame.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it was a celebrity.
		It was being recognized all the time.
		It was not having a private life.
		It was having to do the show.
		How about doing the show itself, Chuck?
		When you were actually doing the show.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		For four years, I mean, that were the happiest days of my life.
		I mean, it was a subculture.
		I'm talking about the Gong Show.
		And I lived and breathed every day of the week with the people I worked with.
		And it was like Camelot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was fun.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Fun, the best fun.
		I never laughed.
		I never had such a good time.
		But there was a reaction, though, that was taking place.
		I don't know, it was kind of a genetic ham in my family or something, because on the stage, I was behaving like a wild man.
		And I'm basically a pretty shy guy, and I couldn't really kind of watch myself.
		But the act of doing those shows for those four years was terrific.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you could feel it like a switch being thrown, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you started that show, you were somebody else.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Somebody else.
		I joke about, you know, like I was having my midlife crisis on coast-to-coast television, but it wasn't that.
		It was, that's a joke.
		And it's not even a funny joke.
		If something, some other thing got out there, I mean, I broke every rule that I told all my hosts to do all the time.
		I would always, you know, tell my host to don't be bored with it.
		Just, you know, the public likes a routine.
		You know, don't think you have to push the envelope because the show will carry you.
		You know, the show will go on and it'll make you a star and so forth.
		Well, when I went on to do the show, I thought I was boring to death out of my audience.
		I pushed the envelope as far as I can go week after week.
		And I'm convinced now, after it's all over, that high-powered television shows, the high-powered people, they're all pushed the envelope.
unidentified		They're off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're off.
		Yeah, they're off.
		They all push the envelope.
		The stuff that succeeds pushes the envelope.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it pushes the envelope, but not for long.
		I mean, the Andy Williamses, the Donna Shores, the Perry Comos, they never pushed.
		They were calm, and their programs lasted forever.
		Even Ed Sullivan, I mean, he just had a kind of a boring personality, but he went on forever.
		But the Arsenio Halls and the Chuck Barris's and those other kind of guys that are up there powerhousing it away last for about three or four years and are gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Three or four years?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's three or four years more than most people get in television.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I guess so.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		But I come from, you know, the shows that I'm thinking about are shows that have gone on forever, like The Price is Right or in the Evening, you know, some of these great shows that have been on for 10 or 11 or 12 or 13 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Carson?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, Carson went on forever, and rightly so, David Letterman, you know, they're all on there for it's been quite some time.
		But they're not powerhouse in that sense.
		You know, I was like a crazy man up there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you were.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I thought, you know, the audience was really excited in the studio.
		And I thought that was it.
		I thought as long as they were excited, everything was fine.
		But studio audiences, you know, are not a barometer of what the show's doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, but good observation.
		Now, hold on, Chuck.
		Chuck Barris is my guest.
		We're talking about one of Chuck's lives right now.
		And we'll slide into another one of Chuck's lives.
		From the high desert, I'm Mark Bell.
		Coast Coast air.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Get a shiver in the dark.
unidentified		It's raining in the fog.
		Meantime.
		Oh Down on the river, you stop and you hold everything.
		A man is throwing dick big, double ball time.
		You feel alright when you hear the music, friend.
		When I set this time.
		But you don't need too many things.
		You don't need too many things.
		That's it.
		Palisades Park.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed, that was one big monster record.
		That was one of the things that Chuck Ferris had to do with.
		And you haven't heard the whole story yet.
		Stay right where you are.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast A.M. The rechart bell in the Kingdom of Nye.
		From west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, speaking of long-running television shows, one of them that happens to be still running came and got Chuck 60 minutes.
		Oh, now it ran a long, long time, still running, actually.
		And they came and they did their thing.
		The old put it in their face and let's see them sweat kind of interview.
		They grilled you about demeaning people on your programs, that sort of thing.
		Tell me a story about that.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, Mike Wils came and he said to me, you know, do I have a good time really running people through their paces and demeaning them and making fun of them on the air and so forth?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And I really took exception to that because I never really thought I did that except for one show at the very end.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So how'd you answer him?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, I told him that, you know, I said, these contestants are having the time of their life.
		I think it's the one little moment that they'll always remember.
		And he mentioned one lady who fainted on the show because she didn't get, she didn't get, And she just collapsed and fainted.
		And I said, I thought she still had the best time of her life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean even though she fainted?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, she fainted from joy.
		I mean, she just got this really an automobile when she thought she was getting like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.
		And she just overwhelmed and fell right down among all the cables and everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When they came to interview you, did you know they were going to do a job on you?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't, you know, there was nothing that I really wanted, that I worried about.
		And, you know, what could Mike ask me that I wouldn't be able to answer prooffully?
		So anyway, Mike went to this lady's house.
		And he asked her, what did she think when she fainted?
		And she said, she had the time of her life.
		So it really was the situation with everybody on our shows.
		They really had a good time.
		We never did anything.
		Really, even on the Gon Show, you know, they were just enjoying themselves.
		I did create a show at the end called Theresa Crowd, which was a show where the premise was, who knows the husband better, his wife, or his secretary.
		And I thought that was a great premise.
		And it turned out to be a disaster because it was a hurtful show.
		And for the first time, the contestants really didn't have a good time.
		They weren't enjoying themselves.
		And the ratings were immense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, see, I never saw that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, did it not?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		No, it was on for a very short time.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		The ratings were incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, what happened?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did the secretary know that?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, the women's organizations around the country rose up and other organizations.
		And that was about the time when we were really baked for everybody.
		And that's part of the reason that messed me up, you know, because then that show went off the air and I realized I kind of overstepped that area myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You really think so?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many of the secretaries knew the men better than the wives?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I suppose then wives had a sad face and walked out and it couldn't have been a happy moment.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it was worse than that.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I mean, like, the husband would come out first, and the host would say, how many presents has your secretary bought your wife?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And he'd say, none, never.
		And then the secretary would come out and she would say three.
		I got her the 90 for your anniversary and I got her that.
		And then the wife would come out and say, he better had said none, and he would hold his card up with zero, which, you know, and then the host, the evil host, would say, well, that's not what the secretary said.
		And the wife would crumble right on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		That wasn't fun.
		Not good.
		That wasn't fun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I guess a lot of now, boy, we're in the age of reality TV.
		In fact, you know, really, there's a new show called 30 Seconds to Fame.
		And you have to have seen that.
		I mean, everybody has to have pointed that out to you at least, right?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		It's been pointed out.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, like the Gong shows another Gong Shit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just like the Gong show.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And all those dating shows, there's a huge collection of dating shows, you know.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And I'll tell you something, I think Freezer Crowd, that Secretary Husband saying, today would be a huge hit.
unidentified		huge.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, probably.
		Because that kind of pain and that kind of agony on television is...
		It sells.
		I wouldn't do that show.
		I really don't think I would because I couldn't deal with that, being responsible for that kind of pain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Newsweek also came to you, didn't they?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They covered the Gong Show, didn't they?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		I think it was Maureen Dowell.
		I'm not sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How'd that go?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was great because she came out as a cheerleader.
		And she was great.
		She handled the show well.
		I mean, she wrote everything was good for us in that interview.
		So that was good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the dating game came to life during the height of the sexual revolution.
		Right.
		So I guess I can really understand how a lot of the comments were out of bounds and way beyond what you would expect.
		But you really honestly had an FCC guy, a fake FCC guy there, huh?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but you know, Art, that's not true.
		Even though it was the 60s, not everybody was a hippie.
		And not everybody, you know, in that young adult.
		And again, we had older people.
		There wasn't any one particular age.
		But not everybody, you know, was into wild, free love, this, that, and the next thing.
		And that's where we aim for because we want to stay on the air.
		And it was that element that went berserk.
		And that's why we had to get that guy to come on and scare the hell out of us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did that say to you, I mean, did you sort of cringe inwardly thinking this is what we've come to?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you must have had private thoughts while you're doing this thing.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		When that was happening?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it was, you know, I was in debt.
		I was in hoc.
		I had borrowed money to make a run-through to put the, you know, try to sell the show.
		My life was in the balance at that time.
		And here I got a break and I got a show on the air.
		And these kids were ruining it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Out of control.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And I wasn't, you know, the vice president.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Five shows, that's a lot of shows, five shows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long, did you do those like in five consecutive days or even in one day?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean when we had 27 and a half hours?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, we had five different shows five days a week.
		Each show was on Monday through Friday.
		Five shows on Monday through Friday and two half hours were on at night on Saturday at Dating Game and Newey Wood game.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm surprised you didn't have a heart attack.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that was the best.
		Boy, I'm telling you, we were having fun.
		We were kicking a lot of butt around those days.
		It was just wonderful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, you know, I'm going to have to try here.
		Now, you know, your shows and you, I mean, you're an icon.
		You're a television icon.
		And as with a lot of icons, it's kind of like you were forgotten for some years.
		In fact, I think the book you wrote went out of publication, sort of slid quietly out of publication, right?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		20 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And now here the book's back, and now it's going to be a movie.
		And so it's, boom, all of a sudden it's coming back.
		And people think a lot of things of you, Chuck.
		You know, good, bad, and ugly.
		But the one thing they would not have thought of connecting with you in any way whatsoever would be employment by the Central Intelligence Agency.
		Somebody said that to me, and I went, what?
		And he all dude, I went, what?
		Chuck Harris, CIA, give me a break.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I wrote Confessions of a Dangerous Mind at a bad time.
		All the shows were up the air, and I was holed up in a hotel here in New York, and I was really living in California.
		I just left town.
		I held up here, and I wrote Confessions of a Dangerous Mind, which tells a story.
		You know, it's the premise is this guy, you know, he's getting crucified for doing television shows, trying to entertain people.
		And meanwhile, he's getting medals and presidential citations for killing enemies of the United States of America.
		That's the premise of confessions, which I wrote.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chuck, after I thought that, just to stop you for one second, then I thought, yeah, but you know, that's exactly what they would want You to think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you would be the least likely to ever be thought of in that category, and that would make you just right.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not going to talk about it.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I wrote the book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, let's see.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And they made the movie, and the movie is, you know, with George Quinn, Julia Roberts, and Drew Brownmore.
		It's really good.
		It's opening up at the end of the year.
		And both those things, well, the movie tells the story of the book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that going to be a December movie?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		December 31st, the movie opens up in New York and L.A. and then around the country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		December 31st, really?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, next month, last day of the year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's last year.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		But when I wrote that book, that's how I felt.
		And times have changed, you know.
		20 years later, it's a whole new world.
		You know, that's the thing that's amazing about everything.
		Things change.
		They change so fast.
		I mean, you're down and then you're up and then you're down again and you're up again.
		And it just keeps going on.
		It's amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's how life works.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Two years ago, I had two years ago I had lung cancer.
		It came as a shock.
		I went into for something else and I got that.
		And there I was sitting in the hospital room and I had just been divorced.
		I had low programs thrown air.
		I couldn't write any books.
		Nobody was buying them.
		I mean, about as gloomy as an outlook you could have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pretty bad.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And here it is two years later.
		And the book's out again, and it's doing well.
		The movie is coming out at the end of the month.
		I'm married to the love of my life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about the lung cancer, Chuck?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Beat it.
		Beat it.
		At the time when I was looking out that hospital window at the Hudson River.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Most people don't.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know, but I got that by, I mean, it was an accident.
		I went into it for a CAT scan for a rotator cuff, and they found it.
		And I'm telling you, tell your audience to get CAT scans if they ever smoked because you can't find it on a chest x-ray.
		You'll save lives by just telling people to go out and get a CAT scan.
		That's what happened to me.
		The CAT scan caught it so early that it was just an operation.
		I never had to take chemo or radio or anything like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They caught it right at the very beginning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very, very beginning.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And you can find that out if you take a CAT scan.
		But look how life has changed.
		And that's not to say that, you know, tomorrow afternoon it could be something, you know, disastrous.
		But the Lord give us and taketh away and keeps doing it all the time.
		And so fast, make your head spin around.
		And that's what this story with Confessions of a Dangerous Mind is.
		I mean, here it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you agree with that premise, Chuck?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That of all the people in the world that you might think of as a CIA hitman, Chuck Barris would not exactly be the first name that would spring to your mind.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, of course.
		There's no question about that.
		But I also believe in that premise, too, that you can get, you know, nailed to the cross for trying to entertain and praised to the sky for killing.
		That's weird.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is weird.
		You're right.
		I understand that you can't talk about probably the details of that work.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Obviously.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you did a lot of traveling, didn't you?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that traveling would give you an opportunity to do whatever work you had to do, aside from what you were doing otherwise?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, I just don't want to talk about it.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sort of stating the obvious.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		The obvious situation, sure.
		We sent dates all over the world.
		We sent dates to Russia, to everywhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, that's right.
unidentified		You did.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Every time we sent a date somewhere, there was a chaperone, and the chaperone came from my company.
		It was a reward for the kids that worked for me.
		I mean, here are these kids that had to be 21 years old or older.
		Right.
		And here these kids work for me.
		I had a real young company, and they were all Californians, and they're going all over the world.
		I mean, they're going to Vienna and Paris, London, Rome, you know, Tokyo, anywhere you go.
unidentified		Australia, I mean, they were in Brazil.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		We sent dates everywhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when you sent dates, you always sent a chaperone.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		We always had a chaperone, and then on many occasions...
		Oh, there were a couple of books the kids wrote.
		I mean, yeah, there were plenty of stories about that alone.
		But I'd catch a trip now and then, you know, I'd go chaperone a trip to Pamplona and watch the bulls run, you know, or go off to here or go off to there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go off to here or there, yeah.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		So it was a perfect, you know, it was easy for me to do that.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		So I did travel a lot, and so did everybody in the company, but they were kids.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that the, let's see, how can I phrase this?
		The anger that you felt, you know, with what you were going through enabled you to do the other kind of work?
		I mean, I can imagine that.
		I can imagine an inner, seething anger that could suddenly manifest itself in some way.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I was, well, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pretty angry.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not, you know that?
		I'm not so sure I was so angry.
		I was having a pretty good time.
		I was pretty happy.
		Things were good.
		It got angry toward the end, but only people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People don't, yeah, but they don't pick it up and go to France because they're real happy.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		No, that's true.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I had a little self-exile job There, which really I was, you know, I kind of disappointed later that I exiled myself because I couldn't understand why I did that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There wouldn't be any other reason for that exile, would there that you can't talk about beyond beyond?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		No, it's just something you don't talk about.
		I just don't talk about that.
		I'm sorry, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I don't want it to be a bad interview, but there's ways to talk about things without really talking about them anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I was just wondering, could we imagine that there might be reasons for your exile?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		No, not really.
		I mean, you know, basically for me, it was just wanted to take a break.
		You know, I kind of lived a Walter Mitty life in a sort of strange way.
		And one of my little Walter Mitty dreams was to write the great American novel in the south of France, like E. Scott Fitzgerald and Hemingway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And here I made enough money to actually make that dream come true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you could afford it.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And at the time, boy, there was nothing.
		I know everybody must feel at some point in their life, just get me out of here.
		And the time passes.
		But with me, I could do it.
		I could afford it.
		And I did it.
		I went to the south of France and I wrote what I hoped was a great American hole, which it wasn't.
		That was the bad part of the dream.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, how were those years?
		They were great.
		In France, were they good?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		They were terrific.
		I mean, I was living out a fantasy, and it was a fun fantasy.
		And then all of a sudden, whap, you know, I just missed the States.
		I missed sports.
		I missed the language.
		And I just, you know, looked up one day and said, you know, get me the hell out of here.
		And I went home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's interesting.
		I lived in Japan for 10 years.
		Okinawa, you know, the Far East.
		I lived there 10 years.
		And I got a point, Chuck, where I realized if I didn't come home, I knew I was going native big time.
		And I realized if I didn't come home and come back to the States, that I was never going to come back.
		And so that's what brought me back to the States.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		That never was my feeling.
		I had a jacket on the back which said Le American.
		And I never ever thought I would be staying in France ever.
		I missed the scores.
		You know, we got them two days late.
		And this drove me nuts to a point where I finally came home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The scores.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		You know, I couldn't get the baseball scores or basketball scores, you know.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And we didn't have the internet then and stuff like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So were you alone most of that time, the time you were in France?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		No, I was married for part of that time and, you know, had friends there, other writers who were my friends previously who lived there and gave me the idea of going there.
		It was great.
		I mean, I lived in the south of France.
		I had this great little house overlooking the Mediterranean, a little speedboat, and played bull in the, you know, Bocce in the town square in the afternoon.
		And it was fun.
		It was great.
		But then all of a sudden, like, you just looked up.
		I looked up one day and wondered what I was doing there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Time to go home.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold it right there, and we will be right back.
		Chuck Barris is my guest, and we're going to get what we can from him.
		Game show host, producer, CIA, Hitman.
		The movie coming out December 31st.
		That should be interesting.
		From the high desert, I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		Heading at the top, on the east side of Chicago, back in the USA, back in the bad old days.
		In the heat of a summer night, in the land of the dollar bill.
		When the town of Chicago die, and he talked about it still.
		When a man named Al Capone tried to make that town his own, and he called his gang to war to the boss that belonged, I heard my mom cry.
		I heard a brave and I should talk about it.
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the Coal Free International line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nigh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly is.
		As you know, I get little computer blasts on my screen here as I do the program.
		Steve in Johnstown, Pennsylvania says, hey, Art, you know, while you were playing Palisades Park, I was afraid of Boom Boom Cannon.
		I can close my eyes, and I can see Chuck Barris dancing with a hat on his head, arms flailing.
		Chuck made me laugh till I cried many times.
		That's Steve and Johnstown.
		Now, I'm sure that's right.
unidentified		Me too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember it all.
unidentified		I remember it all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, actually, this came to me from Adam Leiter, I believe it is, I guess, Adam Leiter, and he's promoting all of this, Confessions of a Dangerous Mind.
		The movie coming out shortly.
		It's going to be a big one, too.
		Miramax Helms, the all-star cast, including Sam Rockwell, Julia Roberts, George Clooney, Drew Barrymore, about the band's life that we're interviewing right now, Chuck Barris.
		And what was written to me was the following with regard to the gong show.
		But it says, in between those outlandish acts that were gonged nightly and during some of those fabulous getaway dates awarded on the dating game, Trump was serving America in a very different way.
		He joined the CIA in the early 60s, remained with them straight through his tremendously successful television career.
		After several years of domestic work, he was sent abroad to kill enemies of the American state, claiming to have killed over 30 people.
unidentified		Over 30 people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, he doesn't want to talk about this.
		You know, and there's not a lot I can do about that.
		He doesn't want to, so we're going to just have to sort of talk about it and not talk about it, if you know what I mean.
		I do.
		I have a question that I think you can answer because you really brought it up yourself, Chuck, and that is, why do you think that in America, producing silly but really fun shows is a critical sin, but killing people appears to be understood or even applauded?
		I mean, what does that say about us?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Art, that's serious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, serious.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		That's a heavy question.
		I really don't know how to go about answering that.
		You know, that's very complicated.
		Yeah.
		Silly shows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I said silly, but fun.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you know, whatever.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Trivial, silly, fun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Entertaining.
unidentified		Entertaining.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		People, I think this is a small number, not the big population that we have out there.
		I think they just don't want to acknowledge the fact that this is a kind of a show that can entertain them.
		It's a personal thing.
		It has to do with their own evaluation of what they think of themselves and so forth.
		I think that's really ridiculous because on the Gone Show in particular, people always say to me, I never watched that show.
		I just never watched it.
		But when you had that act on what such and such, all of that was, you know, it was so telling.
		How that has to do with, you know, then you move over to the other area, killing people.
		It's done by our armed forces, it's run by our law and order people.
		It's never a great thing, but it's a necessity to defend our country, defend our cities.
		But what does that tell you?
		That you get ridiculed for entertaining and medals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For light entertainment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For light entertainment.
unidentified		Medals for killing.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Killing is valor in most situations in our country.
		And I don't know what that has to tell you about the American people.
		I don't think it tells you much of anything about them other than maybe they're just a little too embarrassed to say they like a silly show.
		I don't think it gets much more serious than that.
unidentified		That's my own opinion.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I think people can delve into that and make what they want of it.
unidentified		But to me, it's just living.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we've got to do one thing and we've got to do the other.
		We've got to entertain and we've got to defend.
		And life goes on, as the Beatles say, ooh blah, dee, ooh, blah, blah, blah.
unidentified		I don't know what else to say about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are those, Chuck, who would say, I don't believe a word of it.
		In other words, what I believe is I think that I believe what Chuck said.
		I think he was hurt to his soul by the criticism that he got for what he did.
		Hurt so much that you ran away to France.
		Hurt so much that you made this up to counter the other image.
unidentified		I'm to respond now, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you can find a way to.
unidentified		Well, it's something I just don't talk about.
unidentified		That's all.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I don't talk about the truthfulness of this to my wife, to my family, to anybody else.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		This is something that only I hold in my head, and that's where it will stay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And by the way, let's talk about that for a second.
		Let's assume that all of this really did occur.
		That's a lot to hold in your head and your heart and your soul.
		That's a lot to hold in.
		No matter the reasons you may have done it, no matter that it was for the good of your country.
		And we all know, God knows it goes on.
		We do it like everybody else does.
		Nobody should imagine for one second that we don't, because we do.
		We kill.
		But, I mean, that's a lot to hold in, isn't it?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would be a whole lot for anybody to hold in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how do you think that's affected you?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, listen, every one of us lives these lives of, at times, you know, desperation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		You and I, and you're listening to everybody else, and we all have our problems, and that's all in our heads, and we hold them in however we choose to hold them in.
		Some of us just go off the deep end.
		Some of us manage to deal with it.
unidentified		That's a personal thing.
		How I hold it in, I don't know.
		I think that I've gotten through life pretty good.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		But you might lie up six other people and say eight versions of what I just said.
unidentified		It's hard for me to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, usually writing a book about this kind of thing would even be a death sentence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, to write of this sort of thing, to even speak of this sort of thing, one can imagine just wouldn't make some people happy somewhere.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I imagine that could be true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think that might be true?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think that I think it's something I just don't want to talk about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
		That's why I'm keeping it so general.
		I'm just saying that.
unidentified		No, you're doing a very good job.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you worry about that at all?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that you might worry.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I'm a worrier, Art.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I worry about everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do, too.
		I do, too.
		Total class type A personality, right?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, major.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I mean, major.
unidentified		You know, I worry about my wife, but she's dressed warmly enough.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I worry about what's going to happen with the book.
		I worry about what's going to happen with the weather, whether United Airlines, I'm going to be able to fly out there to California, whether I read somewhere that they taped a wing on with a piece of scotch tape.
		I don't know if any of that stuff is true, but I got plenty of grounds to worry about.
		So, you know, I'm a worker here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So when you wrote this book, did you worry?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, when I wrote the book, Confessions, which I think is, I kind of really think it's kind of good.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I read it recently.
unidentified		I wrote it 20 years ago.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I read it recently, and Jesus, I was amazed at how funny it was, I mean, and entertaining.
unidentified		But when I wrote it, I was in some other place.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And in writing the sequel, I try to get that back, but that was a different place.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And at a time of my life when I felt like writing this damn book, and now I'm not there anymore.
unidentified		And it's different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you surprised that at the time, I mean, are you surprised now, it'd be a better question, that at the time, it didn't do as much as it's doing now.
		I mean, here it is roaring back to be a movie and all the rest of it.
		This is wild.
		Why do you think that's occurring?
unidentified		There was a review in Publishers Weekly that said 20 years later, it's a classic.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		But it also said in that same review that it wasn't the right time and that I was enmeshed in all.
unidentified		Well, I'll tell you this, Art.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		One of the reviews back then, 20 years ago, was what can you expect, talking about the book, what can you expect from the guy who gave us the dating game and the Neuiweg game?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		So there was my journalist, my novelistic career compared to some kind of a dating game, Newey Witt game, nasty comparison.
unidentified		Couldn't possibly be good.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		It was a different time, and I was at a different place, and the whole, I mean, that was...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure you've thought about that a lot.
		I mean, with the shows that you had ideas for, with what you were doing, it's not good being too early.
		It's good being early, but it's not good being too early sometimes.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's not good at all.
		I've always considered a lot of the stuff I did being ahead of my time, but I also consider them to be failures because being ahead of your time, in my opinion, is not anything to be proud of.
		Being right on the money is something to be proud of.
		I mean, when you can do a show or a book or a company or you create, whatever you create, if it's a time for it to happen, great.
		If you're ahead of your time, you might as well be behind the time because it doesn't mean anything.
unidentified		And that's how I've always considered being ahead of my time.
		And I have.
		I know I have.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		But it amounts to a big goose egg as far as I'm concerned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But when you reflect back on it all, you know, would you really go back?
		I mean, you said earlier you'd be so different.
		Do you really think you'd be?
		I mean, even today, I hear in you what you described was in you back then.
		So it doesn't sound to me like you'd be okay.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		No, you're right, Art.
		I mean, I think that what I'm saying is I would like to be.
		After going through all this and learning things I've learned, I would like to go back.
		If I got back, I would like to be this other kind of person because I think it's a better person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you probably wouldn't be, though.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		But I wouldn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Toward the end of the gong show, you said you did ridicule.
		What happened towards the very end of the gong show?
		I mean, no.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, at the end of the gong show, I think that a lot of stuff was coming to confluence.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		They were just converging and I was tired.
unidentified		I was fatigued.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		The shows were going through a bad time.
unidentified		The country was going through a pretty clean time.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Jerry Falwell was chasing me.
		And these are for shows that I was doing at that time.
		And I was doing the GOM show, and it was a murderous schedule.
		And one day I was standing on my mark waiting for a commercial break.
		And I watched the audience.
		They were going crazy.
unidentified		The band was having, screaming and yelling.
		And I just had it.
		And I broke out.
		It was sweat.
		And I was standing there.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And the makeup girl was trying to pat me down.
		And I said, you know, I don't really, I would just love to just quit.
		She said, why don't you?
unidentified		And I said, well, and I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did Jerry Falwell say about you?
		He's come after a lot of people.
		Oh, believe me, Jerry.
		Jerry typically goes out and he says something so intolerably outrageous and then ends up apologizing for it later.
		How did he come after you?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, we just were the devil incarnate, or whatever that means.
		The stuff I was doing was just not airable to Jerry.
		And, you know, it's funny because at that time, I'm talking back in the late 70s, and it was what he said carried a lot of weight.
		Now I think at all due respect to Jerry, if he said something was bad, it would probably be considered good for the program.
		Times changed, and they keep doing it.
		They just keep doing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wild as that was, anybody ever die on that program?
unidentified		Yes.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		We did have some lady die on the Gonz Show.
		She was in the middle of singing Havana Geela, and she just dropped dead.
		Her husband said afterwards that if she had a choice of a way to go, that was it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So she went happily, according to him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		that must have been a word I mean, did the news get out at the time?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, she finished her song, walked Backstage, and then died.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, you aired it?
unidentified		Yeah, but we didn't see her die.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, you aired the segment, though, wasn't it?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but when that lady on that other show I was telling you about collapsed from joy, I wasn't sure whether she died or not.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And I was wondering at the time whether it would have been good for the ratings or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you have pushed to have aired it?
unidentified		Yes.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think I really would.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Now, I, you know, again, it didn't happen, and I don't have to worry about a judgment.
unidentified		But if it did happen, I was really happy to see her jump up.
		I mean, that was a relief.
		But, you know, I don't know what I would have done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, apparently you do.
		That just means you would have argued to go ahead and narrative.
		Yeah.
		This movie that's going to come out, maybe there's another way I can ask you about this.
		The movie that's about to come out after Christmas.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great time to release any movie, by the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When we go to this movie, have you seen it?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you've seen it.
		Okay, good.
		So when we go to this movie, should we imagine, other than a little bit of, no doubt, literary license, which I'm sure they took, that most of what we're seeing has great basis in truth?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would suggest that you don't think of it as any literary license one way or another.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I think you just go to see the film and walk out after it's over and say to yourself, you know, could that be or could that not be?
unidentified		I think you just judge for yourself.
unidentified		That's the way I'd want it.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I'd want everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but we've got you to tell us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, should we imagine that what we're going to see in that movie has basis in truth?
unidentified		I can't tell you that.
		I mean, I can't discuss that.
		In other words, you're telling me, is it true?
		You're asking me to answer the question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
unidentified		And I wouldn't tell my wife it was true or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm just saying that I'm asking whether there's some germ of truth in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some basis of truth in it.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I love your show.
unidentified		I love you.
		I can't tell you.
		You're not going to answer that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to tell you about that.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then when you wrote the book, which I haven't had an opportunity to write.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you've got to get it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I will.
		I'll send you.
		Natasha, you know what?
		I'd love to have an autographed copy.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I'll send you one tomorrow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you really?
unidentified		Or today, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Will you really?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You know what, then?
		We're coming up on a break.
		So what I'll do is I'll pick up the phone during the break and I'll give you my private address.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I'll take her.
unidentified		I got pencil ready.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
		Stay right there, Chuck.
		Chuck Barris is my guest.
		Actually, as you listen, you've got to admit, very, very, very complex man.
unidentified		Pretty wild stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tomorrow night, by the way, Stephen Greer.
		Then Friday night's time to morning, Dr. David Jacobs, who's also a pretty complex.
		In fact, those are complex men, all of them.
		From the high desert, I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast A.M. Confessions of a Dangerous Mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, Chuck Barris.
		Chuck, that really is a very, very intriguing title for, you know, even a book or a movie or whatever, Confessions of a Danger.
		Do you think that you have a dangerous mind?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I think, yeah, I do.
		I think a lot of people do.
		I think probably you might.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I might.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		It's hard to say who does and who doesn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you do.
unidentified		You know, I'm afraid, it's like 20 or 4, and I'm afraid I'm getting kind of sleepy.
unidentified		But here's the thing.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I think that as I get weaker, I'm going to say things that I don't want to say.
unidentified		That's good.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And I think maybe, is that an ulterior motive?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We slowly put you in a different state until finally you blurt it all out.
unidentified		That's what I was thinking here during the break.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's talk about a dangerous mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean by a dangerous mind?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Ah, dangerous mind.
unidentified		Yeah.
		You know, without, I'm not a big psychoanalytical whatever.
		It's just that everybody, I'll speak for myself.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		You have these thoughts.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I have these thoughts.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		They're imaginative.
unidentified		Sometimes they're full of fantasy.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes they're dangerous in a sense that they could cause havoc to friends and loved ones and strangers, and they couldn't.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's all in perceiving certain things that are happening and how you react to them.
unidentified		You know, the old saying, I could kill that guy.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Or I'd break his head off or something in a moment of anger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Who knows what people are thinking?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't you think it goes with a very creative mind?
		Trump, that very creative minds, type A personalities.
		These are all, you know, they lend themselves toward also dangerous and dark thinking at times.
unidentified		Well, you know, you can't tell.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I mean, sure, I agree.
unidentified		But I think, you know, they could be mentally problematical, I guess you would say.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		For instance, like we had a guy on a Gong show whose act was pressing a plate glass, a clear piece of glass against his face and making these wild, strange faces, which were very funny.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And the guy was a demolition expert, a Vietnam veteran, wacky, and was sent to a VA mental hospital and threatened my life because he felt that I ruined his career.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Imagine that career of pressing your face against glass.
		But did you gong him?
		He was gong, and that's why he claimed that I was ruined him.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		So who would have known?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		There's a nice little guy standing there pressing his face against glass.
unidentified		This guy has a dangerous mind.
unidentified		They're all over the place, unfortunately.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do get a lot of threats.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		You know, I guess because, in a sense, I mean, the GON show dealt with a certain amount of the lunatic fringe.
unidentified		I mean, these people were creating acts.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there was a majority were just terrific.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		But there was this fringe group that were creating these funny acts from these mentally whacked out minds that went up on the stage, and they were funny, or they were, you know, they were goggable or what have you, and they were arable.
unidentified		But they came from very strange minds.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And the group, the stormtroopers, or whatever we used to call the kids that saw the first wash of people that came in, they were just, you know, some of them were really dangerous.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And in that sense, I think there are a lot of dangerous minds wandering around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Very, very, very unusual people.
		Yeah, you're right.
		I mean, in my audience as well, the great majority of them are quite literate, quite interested in learning the truth about the kind of things that we talk about here.
		But there's also, of course, the lunatic fringe.
		They're always there.
		And so if you deal with them, at least in part, you tend to get threatened a lot.
		And you have to be very careful because it could go to more than that.
		It could be more than a threat.
		You could get killed.
unidentified		Yeah, you can.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that's not unusual in, I guess, in show business with all its variations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But in general, yeah.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		You open your doors up to the public in this kind of offbeat, weird sort of way.
		Like, what kind of ridiculous thing can you do on our show that'll be funny?
		One of the things that used to amaze me was when they got to me and they were still really not arable, I would just talk to these people.
unidentified		I'd say, you know, what possessed you to think of this act?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I mean, why did you think this would be arable on coast-to-coast television?
unidentified		I was just amazed at their thinking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, do you think it's generally true that a large segment of the population, or at least enough of the population, will do anything at all to have FaceTime on television or whatever?
unidentified		Yes, I do.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what percentage that is.
unidentified		It's a small percent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think that's so?
unidentified		It's your 15 minutes.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		It's that strong desire of everybody to be.
unidentified		You know what I think it is?
unidentified		I always thought it was.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I always thought it was everybody wants to let their friends, their family, the people they associate with, the guys at the office, see them on television, see themselves on television in some form or other.
		And it's just five minutes, ten minutes, but boy, they can live off that for a long time because it's just something that happens in their life that they remember.
		And I think, you know, people lie, steal, cheat, and do anything they can to get on television.
unidentified		We had people do their dating game who were on a wanted list.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I mean, a guy was, you know, a bachelor, one of three bachelors, was wanted by the police for some crime or something, someplace he couldn't resist going down and crying out for television.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He said, so what if I go to jail?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It'll be worth it.
unidentified		So it's, you know, it's not unusual.
		And I don't think it's so wrong.
		I think everybody just wants to do that.
		I mean, every contestant that ever did our shows generally loved it and remembered it and having a lot of fun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's do it.
		I love doing this program.
		When I'm doing the program, when I'm actually doing the program, it's the love of my life.
		It's my soul getting buried.
		I'm in a zone and I love it, but I hate what comes with it.
		I don't like the fame.
		I don't like the celebrity.
		People try to interview me all the time, and I tell them to go climb a tree.
		I don't do interviews.
		I want a private life.
		I don't want my private life intruded upon.
		And so I love the show and I hate what it brings.
		You understand that, I guess, don't you?
unidentified		I sure do.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, buddy.
unidentified		You know something?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		It's wrong.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		It's wrong for us, for you, or for me to feel that way, I believe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Paul Newman, I read somewhere, I don't know if this is true or not, doesn't give autographs.
		He just refused.
		And I decided that at one point I would be like Paul Newman.
		I would refuse to give these autographs because they just were annoying.
		And I was walking along Fifth Avenue one day, and this guy walked up alongside me, and he said, can I have your autograph?
		And I said, no, I don't give autographs.
		And he said, I have a pencil and paper right here.
unidentified		Oh, I have to do a sign.
unidentified		And I said, no, I don't do that.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I felt him drift away and drift away and then he was gone.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And about two seconds later, I thought, oh, the hell with that.
unidentified		And I turned around and I went, and he was gone.
		And he just wasn't around.
		And I really felt badly about it.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		So I think there's something inherently wrong about hating the stuff that comes with your celebrity.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		It's, you know, nobody told you to go do that.
unidentified		Nobody told you to make your radio program.
		But you're doing it.
		And what you take with it, you should really be able to enjoy it.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Now, I don't know if I could go back and do it, but that's what I think you should do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever thought about that?
		Going back and doing it again?
		I mean, you could.
		My God, you know, if I didn't know that you were in your 70s, to me, you sound like you're in your 30s or your 40s to me.
		Now, that's probably a trained voice staying with you.
		I don't know what it is, but you don't sound like you're your age.
unidentified		Well, I don't know if I look at either.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I think that's all well and good, but going back and doing that stuff, I would never do television again.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I don't think there's anything that I would do again that I did except write because writing at least you're by yourself, you're alone, you don't have any bosses telling you what's good and what's bad, you don't have any conflicts with stuff like that.
unidentified		And that I can deal with.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		But going back to, you know, I tried it.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I went back once and everybody, all the people I spoke to were about half my age.
unidentified		They looked like kids.
		They didn't know, I mean, I was kind of like some fossil.
		I was out of it.
		Or as they said, I was out of the loop.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And it wasn't any fun being out of the loop.
		And I also had this feeling that they thought I was old.
		And that's not a great feeling.
		And who wants to go through that again?
unidentified		Besides, you need another kind of personality for that.
		You've got to be ready for that.
		I couldn't go up there and be that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You could be the crazy man again?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, huh?
unidentified		No, no way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you wrote the book.
		Yeah.
		Because I've written four now.
		When you wrote the book, you have to relive it.
		I mean, it makes you relive it.
		Even if you don't put it all in the book, just thinking about it to write the book makes you relive it, right?
unidentified		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you do with that?
unidentified		Well, that's not easy.
unidentified		I mean, it can put you through moods.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		You know, the good parts, that's great.
unidentified		You get a big kick out of doing that.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		The bad parts, it's tough.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		It's tough.
unidentified		And sometimes, you know, it's a masochistic thing.
unidentified		I think writing in general is masochistic.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I think anybody who wants to go live that kind of life you should let them go because don't try talking to them because it's a ridiculous thing.
unidentified		You're alone.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Life is going by outside your window while you're sitting there writing these books.
unidentified		And these books seldom get read.
unidentified		I mean, you know, you're dealing in television, you're dealing with 20 million people in the audience.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		You're dealing in books, you're dealing with 30,000 books.
unidentified		It's almost ridiculous after two years.
		And sometimes you don't even get them published.
		But the point is that you're reliving, you're creating a life that's not yours.
		And you're living it vicariously through your book.
		And that's kind of odd.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, again, do you think that if that which you will not talk about tonight had truth in it, that writing a book and getting it published would put you in a safer place once it got published,
art bell ▲ ● ▼		once it was out there, once it was public, once it was all laid out, sort of, that it would be safer for you.
unidentified		No, I never even considered that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, huh?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		No.
		I never thought about safe or unsafe.
		I never considered anything like that.
		It just was something I had to get out of my system.
		I put it down, and it's out there.
unidentified		And that's it.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		The consequences, sometimes if I would stop to think about consequences of things that I've done, from hosting shows to whatever, it would scare you to death.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure it would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where were you when the whole thing with Dick Clark and the ABC scandals and the payola and all of that occurred?
unidentified		I was out of work and I was really unemployed.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I was out of work for about six months.
		It was a long stretch for me to be out of work.
		And I got a job.
		I kept going around the networks because I had been in a management training program at NBC.
unidentified		I went around.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I had a kind of a background that I could try to sell, but I couldn't get a job.
		So I went to ABC one day, and that's just when the scandals hit.
		And they needed somebody to go down and bird-dog Dick.
		They needed ABC's solution to the problem of payroll and all that was, though, Dick wasn't accused of anything.
		They just wanted to make sure he was protected so that they could say they had done something.
		And I was the guy they hired to send down to him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was your job?
unidentified		My job was to watch Dick.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		It is the silliest thing you ever heard at the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were trying to watch him?
		Well, I mean, what were you waiting for?
		Some envelope to get, you know.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
unidentified		Yeah.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		My job was to be there when Dick started his working day, till Dick finished his working day, and just see that everything was sort of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If called upon, you could go in front of some committee somewhere and say, hey, I watched it, you know, every day, all day long.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nothing ever happened, I can assure you.
unidentified		That's right.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And then somebody would say, well, how about night when you went home?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		But then I wouldn't know what to say.
unidentified		But that was neither here nor there because I didn't question it.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I needed the job.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You needed work.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
		So, you know, I got that job.
		And then Dick and I became friends because Dick knew that, you know, that this was a life preserver to a certain extent.
		And we remained friends for, I don't know, it's been almost 50 years, I guess.
unidentified		And that's where I was during that whole thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You remember the game show scandals?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Oh, very well.
unidentified		I was working at NBC at the time.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I was in their management training program, and I remember when Vin, what was his name?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Vin $64,000.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he went down for the count, and I saw him, his face was pure white that night that he was, I think he was being nailed that night.
unidentified		I remember it was in NBC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you see the movie Game Show?
		Yeah.
		Do you think that was representative of roughly the way it came down?
unidentified		Yeah, I think so.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		The only thing I didn't like about that, it sort of made heroes out of the guys that were throwing the shows.
		But I think that's basically, from my limited knowledge, I mean, I was one step up from a page.
		I think that was about the way it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you know what was going on?
unidentified		No, not at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No rumors?
unidentified		No, not a bit.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		But I don't know why I would, because I was way down the ladder.
		I mean, I didn't know.
		I just knew where to take, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I imagine it was bad days at Black Rock there, huh?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there was bad days in every place because, you know, all the game shows were off the air.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And then that followed after that the record scandals, and then a lot of DJs lost their jobs.
unidentified		And it was a bad time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in your shows, the shows you did, the dating game, particularly the dating game, how much of that was all rehearsed?
unidentified		You know, nothing was ever rehearsed.
		Nothing.
		Nothing on any of my shows was ever rehearsed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, have you ever went to anybody and said, here'd be a great line?
unidentified		No, art.
unidentified		Remember, I came from the networks.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I came, I was a veteran of the payole scandals and of the game show scandals.
		And I knew as an entrepreneur, as the CEO of my company or whatever, that I had to be perfectly clean because I saw what happened to people that weren't.
		And I didn't want to lose my shows or lose my start in the industry.
unidentified		So I was perfectly, perfectly clean.
		And a dating game, not one thing was rehearsed.
		An Holywood game, not one thing was rehearsed.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		And I remember once, NBC had two FBI guys checking out game show producers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Hold it right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold it right there.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		Listen, I know it's 4 o'clock almost where you are in New York.
		And so I always give my guests an opportunity to either bail or stick out the final hour.
		Can you stay the final hour?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Oh, geez.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I hope I don't fall asleep on you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well.
unidentified		I'll try.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe you'll sort of drift off into some little land.
		All right, Chuck.
		Stay right there.
		Hold on.
		Chuck Harris, Dating Games on Show and That Otherwise.
		He's my guest right now.
		You know, this is good super music.
		You think about it.
		You listen to it very carefully.
		It's all about people and why people do things, the kind of things they did on those shows.
		I don't know what the answer is, but they do them.
unidentified		Sweet dreams are made of years.
		Who am I to disagree?
		I travel the world and the seven seas.
		Everybody is looking for something.
		Some of them want to use you.
		Some of them want to get used by you.
		Some of them want to...
		...and I'm not going to die.
		Biggest day to sleep.
		Friday night and the nights are low.
		Looking out for a place to go.
		Well, say what you think.
		Today, you think.
		You come to love the day.
		Anybody could be like that.
		Recharge bells in the Kingdom of Nine.
		From West of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-8255033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the Wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To recharge on the toll-free international line, call your AC and T operators and ask them dials 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed, my guest is Chuck Barris.
		Dangerous Mind.
		What do you think?
		You've had quite a chance to listen to it tonight.
		Do you detect in the edges of what Chuck is saying that that just might be true?
		I do.
		What do you think?
		Well, first of all, you've seen the movie yourself, so give me your impressions of the movie.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's really good.
		It's hard for me to be really objective because all I'm really concerned about is how's the audience perceiving me.
		But Sam Rockwell plays me.
		He's a young new actor, and he's remarkable.
		I think he's great.
		George Clooney directed it and stars in it.
		And I think George did just a marvelous job.
		It tells a good story.
		The bottom line for me is when the picture's over, I'm proud of it.
		I'm not, you know, there's nothing about it that I'm ashamed of or anything like that.
		I think it's just plain outright entertaining.
		That's all there is.
		I mean, it's been getting great critical reviews from the early critics.
		And I think everybody's going to enjoy it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gee, the critics are being nice to you?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's not a change.
		That's what I mean.
		Things change.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I mentioned the movie.
		It was Quiz Show, not what I thought.
		It was Quiz Show, was the name of the movie.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the Quiz Show.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you think that was pretty accurate.
		You think it was funny.
		That has been one horrible time at the network.
		Do you remember once it hit what it was like then?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		Well, it was more or less like that picture depicted.
		It was completely pandemonium around the networks.
		I mean, they were just crazed with what to do and what not to do and how to cover their backs.
		You know, various programs were expendable because they weren't billing that much.
		Others they wanted to keep and they didn't know how to go back keeping it.
		It was bedlam.
		And, you know, people had their careers ruined and some of them came back, but it took them years to get back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then along came finally, you know, Who Wants to be a Millionaire and a lot of other shows now, and so they're back.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		They are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think there's the possibility Of the same kind of problem cropping up again with a new crop of game shows?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you know, you had that Who Wants to Be a Millionaire and stuff like that, but I don't think so because I think now, because of that, I think there are safeguards that are watched disclaimers and standards and practices personnel that just watch the networks carefully to see that that just doesn't happen again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I'm watching, I'm a reality TV watcher, and so's my wife.
		We both watch it, and there's several of them we do like.
		But what I'm noticing is, here's the current trend, Chuck, just really not watching anything.
		And that is, they're going further and further and further and further.
		Some of these game shows put people in actually fairly dangerous but perhaps somewhat controlled conditions.
		But one of these days, there's going to be something awful that's going to happen.
		I have this terrible feeling in the pit of my stomach.
		And I wonder if you've seen that.
		I mean, they're pushing it really to the edge with these shows now.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, I haven't seen the shows.
		I know what you're talking about, like Survivor and things like that.
		But the thing that amazes me now, the thing that I'm a tad scared about, is the direction it's going as far as taste.
		For instance, I mean, there's a show that I've heard talked about called The Will.
		And it's where people are, opposing members of the family are fighting each other over a will of some dead member of the family.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As a premise of a TV show?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Unquestionably.
		I mean, that's it.
		And it goes further and further toward that.
		Years and years ago, I predicted or said, and I was being really facetious and more jokingly, that in the end, executions were going to be televised because that's the ultimate.
		And the ultimate game show that I had devised, only as a gag, only as a joke, but it got finally attributed to me as a real idea that I really wanted to do, was a game called Greed, which there was, but that's not the one I wanted to do, in which a little boy and his dog would come out and the contestants would bid down to see how little money they would take to shoot the dog.
		Now, that's in front of the little boy.
		Now, that's, you know, horrendous, but that's the direction I thought television was going.
		And you can't tell me that a program that argues two families arguing over the will of somebody deceased.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's not that far away then, is it?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Isn't it that they're doing autopsies in England?
		I mean, they're doing a show in which somebody performs an autopsy.
		Now, how far away is that from that horrendous idea I had, you know, years ago?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe we're like the Romans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe American television is like, you know, the Colosseum days in Rome.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think it's just American television.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I think most of these ideas of these reality shows came from Europe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I think that's right.
		They did, didn't they?
		I mean, Big Brother, I think, began.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Survivor and That Millionaire and all those shows, they're basically European ideas.
		And they have worse.
		I mean, there are shows in Europe, game shows that I don't even know if I couldn't describe that are further out than that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but, you know, it's the violence.
		You know, I'm not approved.
		I think anybody would probably agree to that, but the violent direction that some shows are going is, to me, amazing, you know, just out of mind-boggling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's one called Fear Factor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you seen that?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I saw the teases for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's one of the ones that keeps going a little further each time.
		It's like it's going to be a little more dangerous, a little more dangerous.
		And I realize they keep controls, you know, they got cables on people and stuff like that.
		But it's getting pretty far out there.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so go back 100 years to when I was doing this treasure hunt show, and the lady fainted, and I didn't know whether she died or not.
		And I was wondering in my mind at about 20,000 miles a second whether it was good that she did or bad that she did.
		I mean, do we show it or do we cut away from it or whatever?
		And then move forward to where they're actually, you know, is it the mode of a show that's pushing its contestants to the point where there's a life is at risk?
		Is that on purpose?
		Is that something that the networks are sophisticatedly trying to do?
		I don't know, but in my little opinion, it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, look, we've got police shows that do nothing but show chases that end either with disfigurement or death.
		And I don't know what the premise is that we get away with that, but that's what we show.
		I mean, it's exciting, and that's what people seem to want to see.
		And again, it begs the question, you know, about I guess us.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's all ratings.
		And imagine a show that has a fatality and the potential of another fatality following it maybe in the weeks to come.
		I cannot believe that that would not be a huge rating booster and that show would get enormous ratings.
		With the potential of tuning it in some night and seeing somebody die.
		And if what you're telling me is true, where these shows like the Survivor or whatever shows you're mentioning are pushing contestants to the point where they're really risking, they're getting a little more dangerous, a little more dangerous, that to me would be a logical conclusion.
		Because ratings are the name of the game, and the show that has the biggest numbers of homes gets the biggest advertising budget, and it goes on and on and on from there.
		It makes sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One of, it wasn't Survivor, but it was an offshoot of survivor and a man on a bike trail did a flip and had a branch of a tree go right through his chest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he could have died and they showed that and I'm presuming that had he died, they'd have shown that.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I wouldn't doubt it in a million years and I don't know whether that would have been a cause of jubilation in the networks.
		I mean this sounds awful, but maybe it's because I'm tired.
		But I still think that networks in their race for ratings and their greed for ratings are pushing shows to the point where it would be acceptable.
		There are certain acceptable reasons for a death to happen on television.
		That's incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's incredible.
		And was it like that, was the politics?
		I mean, I watched Twiz Show fascinated with the politics of the network.
		Was that depicted reasonably, do you think?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's always been that way.
		It's just that it's the same thing with me back in the 60s where I couldn't say toilet theater making love.
		The politics of language and of objectivity.
		What are you trying to accomplish?
		How are you going to get the biggest number of ratings?
		The $64,000 question got enormous ratings, and so they cheated to keep those ratings going.
		This is this old shoe for network television.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anything for ratings eventually?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		In my opinion, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even death.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		In my opinion, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want a few people to get a few people in here and let them ask you questions.
		First time calling our line, you're on the air with Chuck Barris in New York.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, how's it going?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm pretty good.
unidentified		Where are you?
		I'm in Sufa, South Dakota.
		Okay.
		It's quite an honor.
		You know, every time I watch a football team where a team's really poor at home, they always have people with sacks over their heads.
		And it always reminds me back to when I was six or seven watching your show with the guy that came out with a sack over his head.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the unknown comic.
unidentified		Oh, that was hilarious.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		He was very, who was it?
		It was still around.
		His name is Murray Langston.
		And the reason he wore the bag was he was a comic in L.A. And he was trying to make his way career.
		And he was too ashamed to come on the Gong Show.
		He didn't want his buddies to know that he was doing the show.
		So he created an act where he could come on with a sack on his head.
		And he was hysterical.
		He was really a funny guy.
		And he could never take that sack off his head.
		So he never was really known.
unidentified		And when he did, he always had a sack underneath it.
unidentified		Yeah, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thank you very much.
		You know, this is something that I've wondered about, Chuck, with like 30 Seconds to Fame, which is sort of modern version of The Gone Show.
		It has to be true that some of those acts, and so I'll ask you about your show in The Gong Show, some of those acts, you knew well beforehand absolutely, flat out, we're going to be gongs.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		No question about it.
unidentified		Right?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Remember the premise of the Gong Show was, you know, I went out to do a show of really good talent.
		I couldn't find any.
		All I found was bad talent.
		So I decided, why waste it?
		We'll do it the reverse.
		We'll put bad talent on with a couple of good acts.
		But we knew we would program acts that we were sure would be gone.
		But you know something art that doesn't always work out that way.
		Some acts that we were sure would be gone, they let go.
		And it amazed me.
		But we certainly programmed them to be gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So every now and then they surprised you.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but we never fixed an act.
		I mean, we took the act as it came, and we said, this is so bad, it's got to get gone.
		And we had a rule that they could play for 45 seconds before they could get gone.
		That's where the other showed those 30 seconds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		30 seconds to fame.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		So because they had to establish the act.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		But once the 40-second time was up, those guys hit those gongs quickly, and we thought they would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In 30 Seconds of Fame, I think they gave the contestant who wins $25,000.
		In the dating game and some of your other games, you didn't give great giant prizes neither.
		And when your show became gigantic, when you could have afforded to give really gigantic prizes, I mean, you could have raised the bar on the prizes big time.
		You really didn't do that.
		How come?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, for instance, take the Newellwood game.
		If we'd have raised the Andy above a washing machine or a refrigerator, those Neeleywoods would have killed each other.
		They would have been literally manslaughter on a stage.
		I mean, if we put a little yacht up there, a little sailboat or a new car, and some wife got the wrong answer, it wouldn't be funny.
		The only way to keep those people funny and to keep them light and cool was give them something that they could, you know, there were newlyweds, so give them a prize, but if we got expensive, it didn't work.
		On the Gong show, we didn't care about the money wasn't the point of the show.
		We gave them like $120 if you're a winner or something like that.
		I did a show called $1.98 Beauty Show, which was a takeoff on beauty pageants, and we gave them $1.98 and a bouquet of dead flowers to the winner.
		So prizes were, to me, not the reason.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You didn't have to do that.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		We couldn't on the New York game.
		I'm telling you the truth.
		They would have really hurt each other.
		They would have been so angry at each other, God knows what they would have done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But yet they still come on and embarrass each other for cheap prizes.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, you know something?
		Marriage.
		You know, we were right on the money as far as marriage was concerned.
		50% of the couples that did the Newywood game ended up being divorced.
		And I think in the country, I think in the country, it's not far off from the norm.
		I think the country goes about the same way.
		I think 50% of marriages end in divorce.
		I'm not sure about that, but in our show it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And was it fair did you keep stats?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, fairly real?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Basically, we could.
		At least we could do a medium statistical number that wasn't, it didn't have to be a huge number.
		But you know something?
		Most married couples do not respect each other.
		And another aspect of it is that most married couples, the couples that do have respect for each other, aside from love, but respect, never did the newlywed game.
		So we had couples that coming in, you know, only the minority really, you know, had a great love or respect for each other.
		The others didn't care.
		They were young.
		They were newlyweds.
		It was a really condemnation of marriage in a sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did that work on you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, did it work on you?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		No, not.
		You know, my own, whatever problems I had were my own.
		But the whole point of marriage to me was that, you know, these kids were getting married.
		They weren't just taking it that seriously.
		It's a serious thing, and you've got to really, you know, it's a fragile situation.
		These kids never thought about it as being fragile.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that interesting?
		Very quickly, Wildcard Line, you're on there with Chuck Barris.
		Low.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Chuck.
		This is Dave and Christopher.
		I was wondering, the flavor of the shows that you put together were so different then that it seemed like a very original idea.
		Is it possible that they were created actually by the company as a vehicle for use further down the road to get their operatives?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		No, the programs.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		They were only created by me, and I was trying to just get on, I was trying to get into television with a television idea.
		I had come from a background at the networks of game shows, and I was trying to think of something that could get me a show on the air.
		And the only thing I could think of that was different from what they were doing was something that was spontaneous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, but you can see, though, that the company would look at your program and say, hey, look, they're sending people all over the world.
		They're sending people maybe even to Moscow or whatever.
		And with chaperons, gee, we could provide a chaperone.
		Now, the company might do that, huh?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you read the book and see the movie, you'll answer those questions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold on, Chuck.
		We're here at the bottom of the hour already.
		Chuck Barris is my guest a TV legend, to be sure.
		I'm Mark Bell from the High Deserts.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, from New York, where it's crawling up on 5 o'clock in the morning, here is Chuck Barris.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I can't believe I'm still here.
unidentified		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's not that hard to do.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Are you kidding?
		This has really been fun.
		I mean, I can't believe I've been alone for this long.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any one word or several words you would sum up your whole career with when you think back on it now?
unidentified		That's a good question.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Geez, I don't know why Lucky comes into it.
		Lucky?
		I think that it's been, I'm going to write that down and think about it.
		My first word comes out is Lucky.
unidentified		Lucky.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Prep.
		I feel like luck and preparation and something else.
		I can't remember right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's always talent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's timing.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I understand what you're saying.
		Preparation and timing.
		And I've just always, for the most part, been able to hit on those things.
		You know, if you get the luck and the timing, you better be prepared.
		And so if I could sense that I was coming up on something like that, I would prep for it.
		But then again, it can twist on it.
		It can change.
		And the time it can go right off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've noticed that a lot of artists say luck, and they actually carry a little bit of guilt about the amount of success they've had.
		But they're usually wrong about that.
		Luck part is talent.
		Usually it's talent.
		It's really talent.
		But they don't think of it that way.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, I know.
		I never felt that.
		I never felt guilty about anything like that.
		You know, I think when you work hard and get that, the luck and I think and timing are almost the same thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wanda in Escondida writes on the computer to me, hey, Art, tell Chuck I watched all his shows and I loved him, most of all the Gong show, and I'll bet he was laughing all the way to the bank while the critics were blasting his shows.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were?
unidentified		Yeah.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's true.
		That's absolutely true.
		They were blasting the shows, and I was going to the bank, and that offset the blasting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it offset the blasting.
		All right, on my international line, you're on the air with Chuck Barris.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		Calling from Busan, Korea.
unidentified		Good evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, hi there in Korea.
unidentified		Guess a good morning for all of you and early morning for others.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I'm just giddy as a schoolgirl right now because I'm talking to two people that my mother considered to probably be the most dangerous minds in America.
		She blames Chuck personally for destroying the innocence of my youth and you art for the things I would discuss at the dinner table in high school.
		But just for a reference point, I was born in 69, so if you're seven, eight, nine years old, you don't want to ask your mother what making whoopee means.
		Not a pleasant result.
		And that's from that day, the newlywed game was outlawed on our television.
		I had one anecdote that I wanted to share that just locked me into the gong show as a youth.
		I used to run home to watch whatever cartoon was on and occasionally drift over the channels and catch some of the gong show.
		Loved Murray Langston.
		The guy was Responsible for some really idiotic things I did as a child that my parents, again, didn't approve of.
		But the one day when I just said, I've got to watch this screw cartoons on the gong show, was there was, I can't remember exactly the details, there was a woman in a Native American outfit of some sort with a vest and a feather, I remember.
		She was doing a dance and had literally nothing on underneath that vest.
		She got gonged, and I remember J.P. Morgan saying, this time do it without the vest.
		Yeah, well, from that, now I had to watch the gong show every day of my life after that.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I always thought that fans like yourself who were really loyal to our program were a little odd.
		And not twisted a little bit, but good.
		I liked it, you know, but I could always tell.
		They were just a little different than everybody else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, right.
		Was it the Rockies?
		You're on there with Chuck Barris.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yeah, hi, Joel.
		Hello.
		I'm probably a little bit odd, too, for having to bring this one up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's okay.
unidentified		My girlfriend and I laughed so hard last time.
		Art-ass Chuck, well, I think what the most embarrassing time in his experience on the newlywed game was, I think something to do with having to change the format of the cards after that.
		And maybe it had to do with Whoopee and where Whoopi was the most weirdest place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, yes, yes.
unidentified		Did we hear that one one more time just for old time's sake?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not on this show, you know.
unidentified		Oh, R, please.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		Well, just ask a little bit of it or audience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right, all right.
unidentified		You know, I think probably most people by now know what it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was actually revealed on national television here, I don't know, last several months, somebody did it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you recall who that was, Chuck?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I don't even know what you're talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The most embarrassing moment in the night.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		That you made love with your, that you made whoopee with your wife?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In where, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's not answer it here.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		No, it's in the movie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go to the movie.
		Oh, you do have it in the movie.
		Yeah.
		Oh, excellent.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I just want to clarify you know when I said odd I meant in a good way that these people were just I was I'd say that's somebody like after my own heart.
		They were just a little different than your normal viewer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm totally weird.
		I'm completely weird.
		Maybe it's the only way you can do this kind of thing.
		I don't know.
		Wildcard line, you're on the airline with Chuck Barris.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, good evening.
unidentified		It's a pleasure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm on top of the mountain in Highway 76 in Pennsylvania in the middle of a blizzard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No kidding.
unidentified		Listening on WABC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I heard it was getting pretty nasty back there.
unidentified		Yep, I'm going to shut it down anytime.
		I wanted to ask, this was kind of interesting.
		My uncle was a starving actor out of the Ben Bard School in Los Angeles.
		And he was on the dating game, and I believe that he said that he was paid to be on.
		And then later he was on the gong show and also received some compensation for that.
		And I was wondering, did you guys just pull starving actors out to act as fillers sometimes?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you know, something, we never went out and, you know, put anybody on the show because they were starving actors, but it did give starving actors a lot of opportunity for jobs because if they were an actor, they got paid scale, they got paid whatever they're after or SAG or something.
		And we'd pay it, which always was a pleasure to me because a lot of guys got their start and really got their food for a while doing some of our shows.
		It helped.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of starving actors out there, aren't they?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are.
		There were.
		So then you really still are.
		So you really did help them out.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was always kind of nice.
		I mean, I don't know if we really did it on purpose, but when we found out that the guy would come up to us or the girl and say, you know, thanks a lot.
		That was really great.
		And then if we knew they were available, we'd try to put them on another show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's great.
		That's really great.
		So there was some interaction between shows.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		You know, we were never allowed to use the same act twice on a show or the same person twice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But, but if you've got a really good one, there wouldn't be anything.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, it didn't have to be the same show.
		They could go sometimes.
		They get married, come back and do a new game.
		If they had a crazy act, they'd go on a gong show.
		You know, they were intertwined.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on there with Chuck Barris.
unidentified		Hello.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Hello, hello, hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Fredericksburg, Virginia, below the Mason-Dixon line.
		There's four inches of snow in the cotton picking area.
		It is really colder than blue blazes.
		I don't believe I'm doing this, and my kids are going to be embarrassed when their 78-year-old dad are on the most eclectic radio show I have ever heard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is a clever show.
unidentified		I'll tell you, and I have my own show for seven years.
		I thought it was pretty good, but nothing like yours, Art.
		This is fantastic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, thank you.
unidentified		And, Mr. Barris, how, no, what would you suggest to an individual today to help them find a way to get into the TV or the radio media besides stepping out of the box and remember the fact that we're only two places we could be in the world?
		One's in heaven, one's in hell.
		We are not in heaven.
		Therefore, with the other place availability and the open-mindedness that is permeating our country, what would you suggest for that young person?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, you know what?
		Even a better question or a better way to ask it is, would you even suggest to anybody, Chuck, that they get into broadcasting, whether it be radio or television or the performing arts?
		What do you say to somebody like that?
		Do you warn them?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it seems to me, yeah, I warn them because it's a tough, I can't think of anything tougher than being an actor or in the performing arts and auditioning.
		I couldn't do that in a million years if you put a gun to my head.
		I just don't have the wherewithal to withstand rejection like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, even going to do what you did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, somebody said more.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		But the times were different then.
		I mean, not that it's, you know, it's impossible to get work now.
		But in those days, show business was run in television, movie, by a lot of show business people, and they were more prone to take their chances with people.
		Nowadays, the companies are run by lawyers and accountants and businessmen.
		And you really, if I was going to get into show business today, I'd go in as a lawyer, or I'd go in as something like that.
		Your chances of success are far greater, and your openings are much more.
		Because if you look around, the venues are closing down and there's really not that many.
		In one sense, the cable is burgeoning with new ideas.
		So that's probably where I'd go.
		I'd probably try to find myself, link myself up with some cable company or cable station and get my start there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'd warn him, though, about the path.
		I mean, it's one hard, hard path.
		A lot of heartaches and more losing than winning.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're not kidding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Chuck Barris.
		Low.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Hi there, Art.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		This is Dave over the Hill from you here in Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Las Vegas, yes, hi.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Great pleasure to talk to Chuck.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Read his book about a year ago.
		Really, really enjoyed it.
		Oh, thank you.
unidentified		I thought it was really off-feed and a great read.
unidentified		Question of whether or not it's going to be as faithful.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Will the movie be as faithful to it?
unidentified		Will characters like the Popsicle Twins be in it?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		No, the Popsicle Twins aren't in it, but most everything else is.
		Charlie Kaufman wrote the script, and George Clooney directed it, and they kept it really kind of faithful to the book.
		It was kind of surprising to me because sometimes those things take another left hook, but they stuck close to the book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you close to the movie while it was scripting and then the whole?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Not really.
		I didn't have any reason to be.
		I mean, it wasn't contractual or anything like that.
		But Charlie Kaufman wrote the script.
		George, when he directed it, he would talk to me and was more than welcoming me up there where they were shooting in Montreal and California and Mexico.
		But I never had a real contribution in a sense that they wanted to hear from me.
		It was all there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But they did come to you, though.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they did.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		They weren't afraid to come to me, and I was more than happy to help.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It must be something to have a movie done of your life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It must really be something.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		It's mind-boggling.
		There's no way to describe it, really.
		It's a totally internal thing, and that's why I said earlier that it's hard to make a judgment on my part how good or bad the picture is, because all I'm sitting there and just in awe of the fact that this has come to life, it's hard to really explain the feeling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me try this question on you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much of that which you refused to talk about tonight will be in the movie?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, the stuff that I don't want to talk about, I still don't want to talk about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not asking you to.
		I'm asking you.
		I know.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		But you're asking it sideways, and it's okay.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I don't blame you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you saw the movie, so I mean, is there the movie's the same as the book?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		You know, if you read the book, see the movie, you got the whole story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		First time call our line.
		You're on the air with Chuck Barris.
		Hello.
		Hello.
		Hi there.
		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in the great northwestern lower Michigan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		This is great.
unidentified		You know, great going back and remembering all this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Love the unknown comic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Love Gene Gene the Dancing Machine.
unidentified		Love the Is So Lonesome in the Saddle Since My Horse Died.
		That was great.
		Still is great.
		Never had a clue that Chuck Verris was so big and responsible for so much.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		It's all that stuff.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And by the way, Art, thanks for the overnight show.
		Great, live, interactive.
		Oh, you're very welcome.
unidentified		Just be listening to trash without this.
unidentified		Haven't heard anything about Chuck's childhood background, just wanted to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you know, you're right about that.
		I suppose we should have done that right at the very beginning of the show.
		Chuck, he's right.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		I was brought up in Philadelphia, born and bred, raised there from zero to about 18 when I finished college.
		And I just left college and I went to work as a trainee at NBC.
		And I figured that's where the action was going to be in television.
		That was back in the 50s, and that was pretty true.
		And I just rose from there.
		I just worked my way up from there.
		It was really simple.
		I had a great childhood.
		I mean, I was out in the suburbs, Balakin with Pennsylvania.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there anything, though, that was in your childhood?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there usually is, that launched you to do what you did?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Not a bit.
		Not a thing.
		I mean, my father was a dentist.
		My mother was a mother.
		My sister, we didn't have any background in anything like this, you know.
		And I just went off.
		I really didn't have any goals.
		I didn't have any aspirations.
		My family never pushed me in any way.
		I wish they had.
		Maybe in retrospect, I don't wish they had because it turned out pretty good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was your family shocked by your book?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or do you think they will be shocked by the movie?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, both my parents are gone, but my parents wouldn't have been shocked if they were alive because they never got shocked.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, anybody in your family?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah.
		Yeah, my sister is, and I'm close to my sister, and I know she's shocked.
		But my family, My mother and father were very, they were kind of self-centered.
		They didn't give me too much direction, and I don't think anything, I think they would have been pleased, definitely pleased, but nothing surprised them.
		My sister is in practically in a coma.
		She doesn't know what's going on as far as this is all a surprise to her.
		You know, the stuff that we're that I don't want to talk about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in the modern world, do you think there's as much reason and cause?
		I mean, we are now post-9-11, of course, that assassination is a justified action on the part of our nation.
		That's a general question.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		What was the question again?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I said post-9-11.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I followed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is assassination a justified.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		The president, I believe, today or yesterday, declared that the CIA is allowed to kill al-Qaeda.
		There was an executive order 29333 or something like that that Reagan instituted that said there will be no more assassinations of foreign whatever.
		But this has been apparently rescinded by the president.
		I do believe it's a necessity.
		It's got to be.
		It's tit-for-tat.
		I mean, you can't fight a war without this kind of war without this kind of stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it would appear as though we have an enemy who really doesn't want a lot from us.
		Despite the fact that they're probably picking up on the Palestinian question, they really, that's not really the Central Corps.
		They just want us dead, pretty much.
		They want us to die.
		And there's no bargaining here.
		They just want to kill us.
		And so, I mean, I don't know how else you deal with somebody who wants to kill you other than to get to them first.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very quickly, because we're out of time, one last question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Chuck Barris.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, we've only got a sec, sir.
unidentified		All right, first, I just got to quickly say, Chuck, you're a genius.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		And I think one of the shows, I don't know if you've mentioned it, that you've definitely influenced is the David Letterman show.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		I would say with you getting, you did have crew members, various crew members, perform on your show, correct?
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		And I know it's something Dave loves to do.
unidentified		Just bring out, you know, see what you can find in just the regular people working around the office.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, David did our show as a judge.
		He was a judge on the Gong Show in his early career before he really got started.
		How about that?
		And, you know, NBC was kind of pushing him on various NBC programs, so he worked as one of our judges.
		And I think he learned a lot on that show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, listen, you're not going to believe this.
		Wait, we're out of time.
		Yeah, that's it, man.
		We're done.
unidentified		Confessions.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		Let me shoot in quickly.
chuck barris ▲ ● ▼		It was a pleasure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's really been a pleasure.
		Confessions of a Dangerous Mind, the book, the movie, it's all right there.
		Everybody go check it out.

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