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Sept. 12, 2002 - Art Bell

02:46:44

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Theoretical Physics - Dr. Michio Kaku

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01:10:07

michio kaku

01:06:44

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi Desert, and the great American Southwest Media World, good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the cosmos.
		I'm Mark Bell and this is post-post AM and what a program I've got for you tonight.
		in the first hour, I've got some genuine, serious mysteries for you.
		And maybe...
		My guest tonight is going to be Dr. Michio Tatu from New York City University, who's one of our nation's greatest physics type persons.
		He's a physicist and a theoretical physicist at that, and maybe he can answer some of my questions.
		Maybe you can.
		I don't know.
		This is going to be a wild night.
		There's a lot of wild stuff going on, and it's really hard to know where to begin, I guess.
		The big news this hour, CDC in Atlanta confirming that West Nile virus can in fact be spread through organ transplants.
		So they've done the testing.
		And five cases of people infected with West Nile who got blood transfusions.
		The CDC is now saying, yep, that's how.
		Raising the specter of war, President Bush told skeptical world leaders Thursday to confront, quote, the grave and gathering danger, end quote, of Saddam, Hussein, and Iraq war stand aside as the U.S. acts.
		Hesitant allies asked him not to go alone.
		From the U.N.'s cavernous main hall, filled with wary friends and one bitter foe in Iraq's ambassador, Bush said the body must rid the world of Saddam's biological, chemical, and nuclear arsenals or risk millions of lives in a reckless gamble.
		Now, that would seem to be enough for me.
		It's been enough for me right along.
		If you have somebody who is designing things to kill millions of people and you have no question in your mind whatsoever that he will use it against us as in the U.S. or our interests or Israel or all of the above, that means we have somebody who is a known killer who wants to kill us.
		Now, as with what happened September 11th, a year and a day ago, we should go kill them.
		Now, I'm a libertarian by nature, pretty much.
		But I'm also a big believer in self-defense, the right to bear arms, blah, blah, blah.
		We could go on and on, right?
		If somebody wants to kill you, you'd be better off killing them first.
		If that is their avowed intention, and they have gathered the means with which to do it, and they've demonstrated, as he has by gassing his own people, that he'd be perfectly willing to do it, then he'll do it to us.
		And we have to do it to him first.
		That's how I look at things.
		I know it may seem simplistic.
		Now, boy, I have some really, really first-class mysteries for you.
		And again, I don't know where to begin.
		How much coincidence do you believe in?
		How much coincidence do you believe in?
		Well, you may recall that Princeton University is doing a big study on the effects of mass concentration and consciousness.
		And they're doing it with computers, and they've got what they call these eggs.
		They're these computers at various points around the world that collect, they're sitting there spitting out random numbers, and they collect the data on the computer's performance.
		And if all of a sudden the numbers become non-random, then that information is shipped back to Princeton where it's all correlated.
		And they try and correlate what they get, these machines being driven suddenly to this non-randomness by world events.
		I mean, for example, we have the chart up on my website of the attack on the 11th a year and a day ago, and it just went off the chart.
		Now, as you know, I've done about 10 experiments in this field, having almost actually complete success in things like the creation of rain.
		Yeah, we tampered with the weather.
		I'm not sure how bright that was in reflection, but we did.
		And I don't do that anymore because I'm cautious, because I think it's real.
		And I think we just had another really gigantic demonstration of this effect in play of mass consciousness affecting randomness.
		And I want to talk to you about it.
		Now, listen to me very carefully.
		I'm going to lead you down a little road here.
		This may totally not relate to what I'm about to lay in front of you, but when the president attended the memorial for those who died in the flight that crashed in Pennsylvania, it was a calm day.
		And exactly at 8.48, which is when that plane crashed, on the site, the president, everybody else, noticed the wind suddenly came out of nowhere.
		And in fact, there were even these little dust devils and really weird winds suddenly.
		Peter Jennings and others were commenting on how weird it was that this wind came up exactly at this time, 848.
		And I don't know what that means.
		I'll let you rummage through that one.
		But here's a couple of items that I think really ought to set you back on your heels.
		Item number one.
		In an ironic twist, the September Standard and Poor's 500 Futures, a futures contract, now that's what it's going to be, right?
		Futures, closed on Tuesday, that was the day before 9-11.
		Closed, the 500 futures contract closed Tuesday at 911.00911, a day before the one anniversary of the terrorist attacks.
		Now, it's the futures.
		Okay, I said, okay.
		And then this dropped on me.
		Now, when we're talking about mass concentration of millions of you out there, when I have requested it in the past, again, we're trying to recreate this effect, this whatever in God's name, and that's proper usage there, this is, this power.
		Now comes the New York Lottery.
		Now, on the New York Lottery, you may have seen it on CNN.
	It's a machine that randomly, it's the pick three.
	You know, there's usually millions of dollars out there, whatever.
	A lot of money, right?
	Pick three, and if you pick three, the three numbers, these little ping pong balls, they've got all these millions of ping pong balls bouncing around inside a machine.
	And yesterday, it was shown on CNN all day long, so I'm sure you saw it.
	Yesterday, that machine spit 911 in New York State.
	That would be the New York State.
	Let me read you the story of Albany AP.
	On the first anniversary of the terrorist attacks, a date known as 911, the evening numbers drawn in the New York lottery were 911.
	A Carolyn Haitman, a lottery spokeswoman, said, quote, the numbers were picked in the standard random fashion using all the same protocols, end quote.
	Listen carefully to that.
	The numbers were picked in the standard random fashion using all the same protocols.
	Lottery officials won't know until, well, I guess it was this morning, how many people played the numbers for the total payout, she said.
	For the evening numbers game, the New York lottery selects from balls numbered 0 to 9 circulating in a machine at the lottery office.
	Three levers are pressed, and three balls are randomly brought up into tubes and then displayed.
	Now, exactly how much coincidence are you prepared to accept?
	Or does the more likely answer to you, as it does to me, seem to be that we now just had another, thank goodness I didn't have to initiate it, incredible demonstration of a power not yet understood, but unmistakably there.
	The power of hundreds, thousands, millions of minds to control the randomness, the normal randomness of a machine.
	That's what just happened.
	Unless you're willing to believe in much more coincidence than I am, we just had a magnificent demonstration of what millions of minds together did.
unidentified		Gunshot
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I think that's pretty powerful stuff, and I just submit it for your consideration.
		Now I've got a question that I'm going to be asking Dr. Kaku, and you might suppose there are easy answers for what I'm going to talk to you about right now, but I don't have them.
		Now, as you know, I'm a ham radio operator.
		I love ham radio.
		Oh, it's my hobby.
		I just love it.
		I love all radio, including this and ham radio and everything, right?
		So when I'm not on here, I'm taking a busman's holiday on short wave whenever I'm able.
		And toward that end, since it's my passion, I did a fairly crazy thing here recently.
		My back is in no condition for it, so I got my contractor, and with the help of Bonnie Crystal, who, by the way, is going to be here next week as a guest.
		She's a caver, if you recall.
		Good friend.
		I designed an antenna, a gigantic.
		People don't generally construct this kind of antenna.
		Now, I've got photographs of this antenna on my website, and I've got a reason why I'm telling you about this right now that'll kind of blow your mind.
		It's the second photograph down.
		Oh, the top one is Art's new power amp.
		Sitting in the living room.
		I haven't started using it yet, but I'm looking forward to it.
		It was a great find the other day.
		Anyway, the second item down is Art's 1,000-foot loop antenna.
		What I've done is the second item down, and actually you should look at the third picture.
		The first one represents the antenna in its entirety, and then the next one down is a slightly closer shot done just before sunset so I could catch as much of the antenna as I was able.
		You can click on the picture to enlarge it.
		In fact, I certainly recommend you do so.
		And you will see with pretty good detail this incredible antenna.
		And what I did was I can see, you know, I, as I said, these little cherubs next door would run their three-wheeled dust-creating machines by our house.
		And of course, my wife has asthma.
		Dust not good.
		So I fenced off the Land I own next door, next to my house now, another acre and a quarter, so it's two and a half acres, right?
		And now the little cherubs can't go by creating dust.
		But then I looked at that land, I said, by God, there would be a good place to put an antenna.
		So I put this, my contractor came out and put up seven 60-foot poles, big poles, they're two-inch steel poles, and I already have a 100-foot tower at my house.
		You'll see that.
		So there's a total of eight support points, the highest point being 100 feet at the tower.
		And then this wire, this great loop.
		A loop is nothing but one wire that goes all the way around and meets itself.
		You can think of it that way.
		It goes all the way around and meets itself.
		And it's fed with what's called 450 ohm twin lead.
		Now, stick with me here, folks.
		I know it's a little technical, but stick with me because it's worth it.
		There's an insulator at each one of these poles so that the wire never touches the steel poles or comes anywhere near ground.
		That's not good for an antenna.
		It's just a wire, but it's up in the air, varying from 100 feet at the highest to a minimum of 60 feet.
		And it goes all the way around both properties now together, comprising a long wire, a loop antenna, 1,000 feet long.
		Now, as you might imagine, for short wave, this antenna is mind-boggling.
		It's incredible.
		But there's something about it that you should know, and I want to explain to you, and I do not have an explanation for this.
		Maybe Dr. Kaku next hour might.
		But remember, this is just a wire.
		So that you know, it's a copper wire.
		It's number 10.
		That's a pretty big wire.
		And it's coated so that when you put up such a big, gigantic wire, I mean, this is out in the experimental area, it's so big.
		When you put up that much wire, it's kind of a good thing to put up coated wire.
		And I've got coated plastic UV resistant wire up there, coating on the wire, plastic, so that you don't get, you know, when the wind blows on such a big wire, you could get incredible voltages.
		You know, you could get voltages that would be unsafe, would draw a big blue arc.
		That's from the wind.
		But I have this problem.
		And here it is.
		I noticed with no wind blowing outside, it shouldn't affect it anyway, but with no wind whatsoever blowing outside, I had the antenna in one hand and I touched the chassis or ground with the other hand, and I got a pretty damn good shock.
		So I said, whoa, you know, where's this coming from?
		There's no wind out there.
	I have this wire up there between 100 feet at the highest and 60 at the lowest going 1,000 feet around, just in the air, insulated perfectly, and comes in with what's called twin lead for 150 ohm.
	And there's this big voltage on there.
	Well, that's not possible.
	Where in the hell is the voltage coming from?
	There's enough voltage that when I touch the connector to ground from the antenna, I get a nice blue spark.
	So I thought, what the hell?
	What could do this?
	And tonight, about a half hour before airtime, now, of course, I've got an antenna tuner for you hands out there, and you know, the 4-to-1 ball will protect anything further on from the voltage, but it's there.
	And tonight, just before I came on the air, I went out and got a volt meter, a good one, and I brought it in here, and I put it between one of the antenna legs and a ground.
	And I read between 349 and 350 volts.
	I showed it to my wife.
	I said, you're not going to believe this.
	That's a lot of voltage.
	Now, I don't think it's much current.
	I'm sure it's not much current at all, or I would have been, probably would have had a heart attack and be dead right now.
	It's not much current.
	It must be infinitesimal amount of current, I think.
	But where in the hell is that voltage coming from?
	Where?
	It's coming out of the air.
	Now, in order to function and not ultimately hurt something, I'm going to have to put in, for those of you that know something about all this, bleeder resistors.
	I'm probably going to have to get about 10 megaohms of resistors on each side of the lead-in and go to ground right where it comes into the house to bleed this voltage off to ground.
	I've already put the ground rods in to do it, but in the meantime, I mean, it's just an annoyance.
	But when you think about it real hard, where the hell is this voltage coming from?
	It's coming, well, I don't know where it's coming from.
	Now, you may recall Tesla toyed with things in this area.
	And it hit me like thunder.
	How could I have a constant voltage on this line when there's not wind out there?
	And besides, it's coated line.
	So even if there was, it wouldn't generate anything to speak of that way anyway.
unidentified		Now, maybe Tesla was really on to something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there some relationship to the Earth's magnetic field?
		Is there something about the rotation of the Earth itself and a wire as big as I've got that would generate this voltage?
		Would this explain something in physics that otherwise doesn't seem explicable at all to me?
		So I thought I would throw that out to you.
		This is a very large, very unusual antenna, and I'm getting a very unusual side effect from that much wire up in the air.
		And I just thought that I'd kind of run by some of you out there and See what you think.
		Now, on one leg, it does run adjacent power lines.
		You might say it's coming in that way, but it's really too far away, way too far away, you know, both in height and distance from the power lines to be collecting that kind of voltage.
		So, where is this energy coming from?
unidentified		Huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's coming out of thin air.
		And it's not, you know, you would think you could discharge it if it was static, right?
		Well, you can't discharge this.
		It's always there.
		When you hit ground, it's still there.
unidentified		When you take it off ground, still there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, this one's a big mystery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell.
		Don't you love her, Bethlehem?
		Don't you need her, badly?
		Don't you love her, wait?
		And tell me what you say.
		Don't you love her, Betty?
		Wanna be her faith.
		Don't you love her, babe?
		Don't you love her as she's walking out the door?
		Like she did one thousand times before Don't you love her faith?
		What you say Don't you love her As she's walking out the door All your love All your love All your love All your love All your love is for A single lonely song Of a deep blue
		dream Seven horses sing To be on the mark To rechart bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the Wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Seven horses seem to be on the mark.
		What are the odds, huh?
		And in New York, three little balls go plop, plop, plop on 9-11.
		And they plop away 911.
		What are the odds?
		How much coincidence are you willing to believe in?
		Well, all right, here's one more thing.
		I've just got to get on.
		It's too important.
		From BBC News.
		New moon found around Earth.
		Now, an amateur astronomer may have found another moon of the Earth.
		Experts say it may only have just arrived.
		We might have a new moon.
		We might have a new moon.
		Much uncertainty surrounds the mysterious object designated JS and John 002 Easy 02.
		It could be a passing chunk of rock captured by the Earth's gravity or maybe a discarded rocket causing casing rather coming back to our region of space and now orbiting Earth.
		It was discovered by Bill Young, that's YEUNG, from his observatory in Arizona and reported as a passing near-Earth object.
		It was soon realized, however, that far from passing us, it was in a 50-day orbit around the Earth.
		So we either have a big piece of space junk up there that they couldn't somehow account for, or we have acquired a new moon for Earth.
		And I thought that would be probably worth passing along to you if you haven't heard yet.
		New moon.
unidentified		Big deal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pretty wild, huh?
		All right, to the phones we go.
		Anything you want to talk about is a fair game.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Hello.
		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, where are you?
unidentified		Thank you.
		I was about to say so.
		I'm Dean College from Tilbury, Ontario.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, welcome.
unidentified		I think I've got the solution to your high-voltage antenna problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad.
unidentified		How much wattage are you running on your transmitter?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It has nothing to do with anything, sir.
		Because I'm not talking about when it's connected to any of the equipment.
		It's when it's unconnected.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Even in the early days of spark gap transmissions, they were still using an ungrounded receiver, and it was still able to be transferred.
		And you're working with practically the same technology, a loop of wire resonating to a certain extent with your broadcast signal.
		And in the business, considering the proximity of your loop antenna, you're working practically with zero-point energy transfer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		That's okay.
		Thank you very much.
		We have a horrible echo there.
		That's exactly what I'm not sure that I'm not encountering here.
		It might be some form of what they're calling zero-point.
		I'm not sure.
		I'm honestly, I'm not sure.
		I have no idea what it is that I've encountered here.
		Now, obviously, people have put big things up before, right?
		And so there ought to be an answer for this.
		But not that many.
		This is particularly big.
		Now, for a loop, in fact, I did research on the web, and I could find a little information, certainly on one lambda loops or even two lambda loops.
		That means wavelengths.
		Wavelength loops.
		But this is many wavelengths.
		To say 3.8 megahertz.
		Many wavelengths.
		In other words, gigantic.
		And I could find no reference to anything of that size on the web anywhere, so not a lot of people have done it.
		And it's a really good question.
		I mean, where is this voltage, this constant voltage coming from?
		Low current, high voltage, you would immediately think static caused by wind.
		No wind.
		No wind.
		It's there consistently, and it waivers not more than about between 349 and 350 volts.
		I'm telling you, it's a mystery.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello.
unidentified		How are you doing?
unidentified		This is Stan from the Chicago area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Stan.
unidentified		Just think with the wire that you have, you know, in the past few years, projects such as HAARP and Gwen, other projects that generate various frequencies and levels of energy,
unidentified		in addition to all the background radiation, it's quite possible that your wire there is being bombarded by, let's say, energy from organized or non-organized projects.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, there's a pretty good shot, sir.
		Not bad.
		I hadn't considered that.
		Could I be, with that size of a wire, picking up some sort of black project underway?
unidentified		Oh, Uncle Sam wouldn't do that to us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, baloney.
		I've seen a virtual electromagnetic blanket settle in over this valley, and I saw 2.4 gigahertz internet go to zero.
		The radios were suddenly copying zero.
		I saw my own uplink here when I was on the air go to zero.
		In other words, total saturation.
		No signal was reaching the satellite.
		Nothing was coming back from the satellite.
		I've seen that over this valley.
		So your thought is a pretty good one.
unidentified		Also, in addition, do you remember the story about Nikola Tesla when he died?
unidentified		Various government-looking type people went into his hotel room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was the government, sir, and they confiscated everything he wrote.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		And how do we know that that technology, and as I understand it, that Tesla was years ahead of anybody else, that just from the stuff that was made public, how do we know that some of this stuff hasn't been used as a military weapon to maybe possibly be a factor in these times we live in?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The answer is, sir, we don't know, and the odds are that they are doing it.
		So your suggestion is one worth considering.
		i'm looking at many things as possible that a wire in the atmosphere above ground on an earth that is turning that there would be a geomagnetic effect that would create That it's some sort of product of rotation in the Earth's magnetic field.
		That's one possibility.
		Another, of course, is that there is, in fact, something being absorbed by the antenna that's being thrown at it.
		I'm willing to certainly.
		That's a pretty good suggestion, sir.
		So I'll put that in the pot of things that it might be.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Whoa, Art.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Oh, this is Kenny in Silver City, New Mexico.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Kenny.
unidentified		You know, I did some research on the HARP system, and the events that came about started 11 years ago from your program.
unidentified		I started listening about this system that was being put in Alaska, and most of us are familiar with the HARP system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		They called the elephant cage.
		About five years ago, I did remodeling for a gentleman who was in charge of those towers.
		11 towers, about 5 million watts each.
		He told me that a plane cannot get near those when they have them on because it would vaporize the plane.
		That's how much juice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not sure if it would do that.
		It might certainly conceivably, for example, affect the avionics on the airplane, and you'd get the same result.
		It would go down like a rock.
unidentified		Now, back in March of last year, they were going to charge the system, and they were going to test it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		Now, they postponed that.
unidentified		In April, the following month, we had an Aurorio Borealis here in New Mexico, and I've never even heard of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we've been having, the sun had been really going berserk, sir.
		We've had a lot of auroras recently.
		We had one here in Nevada, and I didn't think that was possible, but we had a blood-red sky.
		Now, it's happening.
unidentified		Okay, I would tend to think that maybe we might want to check to see if they're testing the HARP system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That might explain it.
unidentified		Its possibility.
		And one more thing.
		I've got to thank you very much for your show.
		You are excellent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're very welcome.
unidentified		Do you have access to a computer right in front of you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
unidentified		Could you, this is off the subject just a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't give me a web address on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not allowed to put them on the air.
unidentified		No, no, it's not an address.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm listening.
unidentified		Border Area 21.
unidentified		Now, the 21 is spelled with an XX.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		no, no, no, no.
		That is a web.
		Sorry.
		Can't do it.
		I just can't do it.
		It was another way to get a web address in there, a URL, and I can't allow that on the air.
		And the reason that we don't do that is because we've been had in the past.
		You know, somebody gives out a web address.
		It sounds innocuous enough, and then everybody rushes to their computer.
		And, you know, it's triple X material or something like that.
		So we don't put on anything until it's screened or comes from a known commodity like a guest that we've vetted, something like that.
		Okay?
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Going once.
		Going twice.
		Gone.
		A wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, Art.
		This is Dr. Ed Colling from Montachapi.
		I run a newspaper that you may see, a magazine.
		I won't give the name of it, but I'm also a PhD electrical engineer, and I've been listening to the interesting suggested answers to your antenna problem.
		And it's actually quite a simple problem, but it's a very fascinating and fundamental part of our atmosphere.
		And that is that there actually is a, if you could draw a little picture in front of you, the Earth is negative with respect to the ionosphere.
		Right, gotcha.
		And the total voltage difference between that Earth and the ionosphere is 300,000 to 400,000 volts.
		So the breakdown of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		which would then be a gigantic energy source, which might be what they're calling the zero point.
unidentified		Well, no, it's not that.
		It's due to the interaction of the magnetic field of the planet and the electric field and the ions that are moving.
		But you were correct what you said before.
		The people who have tried to use this particular phenomena for free energy in the past, the limitation is that you get a good potential gradient.
		So if you're just collecting voltage, in other words, if you're not going to draw much current, you can generate a very high voltage.
		In fact, it's nominally depending on the area, it's 150 volts per meter.
		So that you, if you're six foot tall, it's 260 volts difference between the top of your head and your feet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		But not much, but you don't feel much current.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not a lot of body.
		No.
		It was enough to give me a fair jolt.
unidentified		So if you were going to use that big loop antenna, which I've done in the past too with smaller loop antennas, what you need to do is at least have some sort of large-scale blocking capacity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		It's not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Number one, sir.
		Listen to me.
		Number one, it's not a problem because the ballon in the antenna tuner is isolated anyway, so it works fine.
		It's just that I don't want that voltage on the antenna.
		I'm going to put bleeder resistors in the feed line, the ground, and I'll get rid of that.
		So it's usable.
		There's no problem there.
		It's incredible.
		It's just that I don't understand, and I still don't understand really where that voltage is coming from.
		That differential that you talk about, but what would happen with a 10,000-foot wire?
unidentified		It keeps going up.
		I'm giving you a potential gradient.
		A gradient is volts per meter.
		Okay, that means that's 150 volts per meter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But how big would you have to get before you would have a usable amount of energy that's coming virtually out of the air?
unidentified		You starve the wire too fast.
		You get tremendous volts.
		I said 300 to 400 volts by the time you go up to the ionosphere.
		But you're only going to draw micro, microamps of current.
		So what's your net power?
		Your net power is very, very small.
		I agree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I certainly agree.
		The net power would be very small.
		But I mean, while this is a gigantic antenna, I grant you, it's certainly not big by the standards of somebody who wanted to pursue this apparent technology and use it for power.
		I mean mine would be infinitesimally small as is the current that he talked about but when you begin to really Suppose it were 10,000, 20, 30, 100,000 feet, 200,000 feet.
		In other words, at some point, you begin to get a usable amount of current and voltage.
		You begin to get an astronomical amount of voltage, and certainly perhaps a usable amount of current.
		And you're getting it from the air.
		Right out of the air.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
		Hello?
		Going once.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello.
unidentified		Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Oh, hi, Art.
unidentified		Is this West of the Rockies?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, sir, you're east of the Rockies.
unidentified		Oh, thank you very much, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, actually?
unidentified		I'm calling from Cleveland, Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see, that's definitely east of the Rockies.
unidentified		Okay.
		What I wanted to call and tell you, there was one more coincidence about the 9-11.
		You guys didn't hear the score of the Yankees in the Baltimore Orioles game that day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was it?
unidentified		It was 5-4.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		But the weird part was 5-4, and it was an 11 innings.
unidentified		Huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now, you heard all I had to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you willing to believe in that much coincidence?
unidentified		No, not one bit.
unidentified		There's definitely something more powerful behind that, I would definitely think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, me too.
		I mean, just a reasonable person.
		In law, things are measured by what a reasonable person would think, right?
		And it's just not reasonable to think that this could have all been chance.
		I don't believe it.
unidentified		No, there's something deeper here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a force at work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		May the force be with you, sir, and thank you for calling.
unidentified		Thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, take care.
		May the force be with you all.
		It's probably real.
		West of the Rockies, you're on air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, hi, Art.
		My name is Jay.
		I've done some study in this field before as far as the differential goes.
		I actually had a patent attorney do some research.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
unidentified		And there have been patents submitted before to go up like 10,000 feet with a grid, like the previous gentleman.
		Point out, though, you have a drop in overall power because of the length of the wire.
		But here's what I wanted to add to the conversation: is that in essence we're talking about a capacitor here between the Earth's field and the upper atmosphere.
		You follow what I'm saying?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Clearly, yes.
unidentified		Okay, it's a capacitor.
		So now, we have done a lot of study with this as far as building shielded devices because of the belief that there's an increase of electromagnetic radiation from all the TV shows and all this.
		All the energy we've been pumping into it.
		We have to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, maybe it's collecting a sort of soup that's out there.
unidentified		Yeah, that's the idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I get the idea.
		That's a pretty good clear thinking, sir.
		Thank you very much.
		In other words, there's all this radio, there's all this television out there, and there's a kind of a collective soup swimming through the atmosphere of electromagnetic signals that we know as RF or radio frequency.
		That's a pretty wild one, too, but also extremely interesting.
		Maybe that's tapable.
		Oh, boy.
		First time call online, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, this is Andy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Andy, turn off your radio, please, and proceed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, Andy?
unidentified		In Omaha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Omah, okay.
unidentified		Yeah, um, you mentioned earlier about this possibility that we might go to war.
unidentified		I saw a show this morning on the morning show, and they had this guy that was over there as an inspector.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And he said that they absolutely don't have any means to basically start this terrible war.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're talking about Mr. Ritter?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's one man's opinion.
unidentified		Well, I mean, he's been there for a number of years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We discovered when we were there that they were working incredibly hard on all this.
		I mean, we took a lot of the stuff out.
		We know they were.
		Right?
unidentified		I was just wondering if we might send another team of inspectors over there before we send over, you know, 20 or 30,000 troops because it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to attack too soon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		Thank you very much.
		Here's what I think.
		I think that if it does, if it is going on, and we really do need to know, then our president is going to have to go a little further in terms of explaining specifically.
		And I know it's hard because it's Intel.
		They've got Intel, right?
		Intelligence, we hope, telling them what's going on in Iraq, you know, with the nuclear program, with the chemical and biological programs and all the rest of it.
		Now, if there is intelligence indicating the threat is that serious, and you certainly would not imagine the president would be saying, we'll go it alone, by God, if we have to and go get him, unless he did have that kind of intel.
		And if he does have that kind of intel, then to some degree, maybe not so much that it would hurt the value of the intelligence, he's going to have to make his case in front of the American people.
		He's going to have to come to the American people and say a little bit of, here's what we know.
		And if we're facing a threat, people want to kill us, who have the means to kill us, maybe even millions of us, then I don't know.
		Seems to me we've got to get them first.
		What the president wants to do, he's going to have to make his case to all of us.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Coming up, Dr. Michiu Kaku.
		Don't touch that dial.
unidentified		Don't touch that dial.
		Once upon a time, once when you were mine.
		Once upon a time, once upon a time, once upon a time, once upon a time, one of the best things that I was given to you in your life.
		Be it sight, sand, smell, or touch, there's something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of a touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak roots deep in the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
		To lie the meadow and hear the grass sing, to have all these things in our memories home, and they use them to come to farm.
		Yeah!
		Call our bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed it is.
		What a ride you're in for tonight.
		Dr. Michiel Kaku, one of our nation's leading theoretical physicists, co-founder of the string theory, is with us tonight.
		He'll be up in a moment.
		I've got something that I want to read you that's going to kick all this off.
		I mean, you know, we're all, I certainly am anyway, and I'm sure most of you are, in search of the meaning of everything, right?
		The meaning of everything, maybe in one short equation.
		The meaning of everything.
		I mean, the meaning of our existence, the meaning of what's all around us.
		We're searching for meanings.
		And here's a big clue in that trail.
		This is from a very well-respected Science News.
		It's the August 31st, 2002, Volume 162 edition, which I get.
		And the name of the article is Lonely Universe.
		And It says, runaway expansion will lead to dark times ahead.
		Early in 1998, 1% of the universe got a jolt.
		Two independent teams of researchers studying distant supernovas found evidence that the cosmos is doing more than merely expanding.
		Doing more than merely expanding.
		The teams discovered that it is expanding at an ever faster rate.
		You might even say quickening, right?
		Opposing the tug of gravity, there seems to be some mysterious force dubbed dark energy that stretches space-time and pushes galaxies apart.
		Although the evidence is still being debated, scientists are beginning to explore the full consequences of living in a revved-up universe.
		And as several cosmologists have come to realize, anti-gravity has a downside.
		Listen very, very, very carefully now.
		Because gravitational attraction was dominant when the universe was younger and objects were closer together, runaway, the word runaway expansion, didn't begin until about 5 billion years ago.
		But to those who are superlatively far-sighted, this relatively new trait of the universe couldn't have more profound consequences.
		And here they come.
		That's the thought that came to Harvard cosmologist Avi Loeb one morning last year after being kept awake most of the night by his own personal reminders of the future, his one-month-old daughter.
		He realized in a revved-up universe, galaxies eventually would recede from each other at faster than the speed of light.
		Now, that's really important.
		Listen very carefully.
		Galaxies will begin to recede from each other at faster than the speed of light.
		Although the laws of physics hold that nothing can move faster than light in any local region of the universe, two widely separated galaxies pushed apart by the expansion of space-time between them can have a rot of velocity that exceeds the local limit when that happens.
		Listen to me now.
		All possibility of communication between those galaxies or even visual contact between them dies.
		At that point, light emitted by one of the galaxies will never catch up to the other.
		Now, do you understand what this means?
		Rather than seeing the opposite side, opposite galaxy vanish from sight immediately, an observer in one galaxy is going to see the light from the other grow gradually dimmer like a dying ember.
		Ultimately, the remote galaxy will become so dim that not even the most sensitive telescope is going to be able to detect it.
		In the end, evidence of all but the nearest galaxies will become forever inaccessible.
		In other words, folks, we're going to begin moving apart from each other at faster than the speed of light, which means that all that you see in the night sky, everything that we see and have always regarded as permanent, is going to disappear.
unidentified		Quite poof.
unidentified		Well, not quite poof, maybe poof.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's all going to disappear.
		And we're going to be all alone, not only to the naked eye, but to the telescopes as deep and as hard as they can look into space.
		It's going to be gone because the light or the objects are going to be traveling faster than the light, trying to get back to us, our eyes, our retinas, and our telescopes.
		It is a concept.
		It's a kind of a dark concept when you think about it.
		It's incredible, and it's a really good first question for Dr. Kaku coming right up.
		Well, all right, Dr. Michio Kaku is an internationally recognized authority in theoretical physics and also the environment.
		He holds the Henry Summet Professorship in Theoretical Physics at the City College and Graduate Center of the City University of New York.
		His goal is to help complete Einstein's dream of a theory of everything, a single equation, perhaps no longer than one inch, which will unify all the fundamental forces in the universities lectured around the world, and his PhD-level textbooks are required reading at many of the top physics laboratories in the world.
		He's written nine books.
		His last two books, Hyperspace and Visions, became international bestsellers and have been widely translated into different languages.
		He hosts a weekly hour-long radio program himself on science on several stations about the country.
		His commentaries on science can be heard on 60 radio stations nationwide.
		Dr. Kaku graduated from Harvard in 1968.
		Soon will come out.
		Number one in his physics class.
		How about that?
		Number one.
		Received his Ph.D. from the University of California, Berkeley Radiation Lab in 1972.
		Held a lecturership at Princeton in 1973.
		Then joined the faculty at the City University of New York, where he's been a professor of theoretical physics for 25 years.
		He's been a visiting professor at the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton and also New York University.
		Published over 70 physics articles in physics journals, which include super string theory, supergravity, superhadronic physics, is it?
		Yes, I believe.
		He is co-founder of string field theory, wrote the first paper on informal supergravity, the breakdown of hypersymmetry at high temperature.
		So here from New York is Dr. Michio Kaku.
		Dr. Kaku, welcome back to the program.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Glad to be on, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Always so nice to have you here.
		All right.
		Well, you heard what I read, and it just, when I read it, I sat down, and just for a while, I couldn't think about anything Else.
		Now, we've always thought that we could not exceed the speed of light.
		I mean, that was supposed to be a law or something, right?
		Right.
		Only in this science news article, it says it's going to start to happen, and when it does, everything's going to slip-slide away until there's no night sky, no stars, no everything.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, there is a new picture which is generating a tremendous amount of electricity throughout the astronomical community.
		This is a theory based on something called dark energy.
		And it's called the inflationary Big Bang Theory.
		And all the pieces are finally fitting together.
		You know, for 80 years, we scientists have debated whether the universe will die in fire or ice.
		We now have the answer.
		The evidence is almost conclusive.
		The universe will die in ice rather than in fire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the old theories were that there was a Big Bang and everything exploded outward and that velocities would be decreasing.
		And the farthest object out we could see would be about 15 billion miles or so, somewhere in there.
		And that would be the beginning of the Big Bang, the last rock out there somewhere, right?
		15 billion years out, light years out.
		And then there's a theory that the whole universe would come back upon itself, collapse into something smaller than a quark once again, and an underlating universe.
		Yeah, like a rubber band theory.
		And now all of a sudden, oh my God, the whole thing's up in smoke.
		And this is really pretty weird.
		I mean, everything's going to start going faster and faster until there is nothing.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		We live in what is called a runaway universe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's depressing.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Now, think of a gigantic balloon, okay, such that if we live on a small galaxy, within that galaxy, you cannot go faster than the speed of light.
		Any experiment you do inside our teeny weeny little Milky Way galaxy, you can't go faster than light.
		However, between galaxies now, between galaxies, it's the rubber of the balloon that's expanding.
		It's the empty space that's expanding.
		Now, nothing can go faster than the speed of light.
		Nothing being vacuum, space.
		That can go faster than the speed of light.
		In fact, by the way, the Big Bang itself went much faster than the speed of light.
		If you calculate how fast the Big Bang expanded, it went much faster than the speed of light.
		So things can go faster than the speed of light if it's empty space.
		Matter cannot go faster than the speed of light, but empty space can.
		That means that this runaway universe, which is our universe, seems to say that at some point our Milky Way galaxy will be the only game in town.
		It's going to be very lonely out there in the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really depressing.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		However, let me tell you, say a few other things.
		The article neglected to mention several other exciting developments.
		First of all, we now believe that underpinning this entire inflationary Big Bang idea is the concept of parallel universes, the multiverse.
		That our universe is a bubble that coexists with other bubbles that are probably also in a runaway mode.
		We don't know for sure.
		And that universes are for free.
		That the universe is a free lunch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Let me explain.
		In this new picture, we have all the pieces, all the numbers, the hard data now is coming in from satellites, from balloon experiments, all the data is fitting together.
		If you calculate the total energy of the universe, the total energy of the universe, okay?
		That means the energy of matter, which is positive.
		That means the energy, the dark energy is also positive.
		But gravitational energy is negative.
		The energy of gravity is negative.
		If you add the positive, that is you and me, the stars, the sun, the Milky Way, that's positive.
		And you add gravity, which is negative energy, you add the two together, you get zero, or something extremely close to zero.
		In other words, the universe is a free lunch.
		It simply don't take that much to create universes out of nothingness, that is hyperspace.
		The universe is a bubble floating in hyperspace.
		It's vibrating.
		It's just going according to string theory, membrane theory.
		And so we now believe that the mind of God, that Einstein used to always talk about fondly, the mind of God is music, the music of strings and membranes, these universes rippling through hyperspace, music resonating through hyperspace.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that this discovery bears out string theory?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, string theory would tell you where this bubble came from.
		Now, the observational data seems to be pretty conclusive now.
		The universe is in a runaway mode.
		It's accelerating exponentially, that at some point in the future, the Milky Way galaxy will be the only galaxy, and it's going to be awfully cold out there.
		Temperatures will reach near absolute zero.
		But if you run the clock backwards now, if you run the clock backwards, that's where string theory comes in.
		String theory, in principle, would tell you where that instant, that instant of the bubble came from.
		And the latest developments seem to indicate that the universe was a quantum fluctuation, just a fluctuation in nothing, a fluctuation in hyperspace.
		And that little tear, that little tear in nothingness created a bubble which expanded rapidly.
		And it don't take much to create this tear because the total energy of the universe is zero.
		Which means that it's like boiling water, that bubbles are forming all the time.
		Now, this is, to me, a source of optimism, because if our universe is really in this runaway mode, and at some point in the far future we have the ability to create our own tear, our own little rip in a universe, then we may get a life raft, leave our universe, and go to another universe where it's a lot warmer and a lot more comfortable in our dying universe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where you've got some neighbors.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have some neighbors, and it's a lot warmer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good neighborhood.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you're telling me that short of the ability to do that, the outlook is not real good.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, the universe will get colder and the universe will get, as is pointed out in the article, more lonely as more and more galaxies fall off the edge of the universe.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Now, when I mean fall off the edge of the universe, I mean we're not going to be able to see them anymore because they are traveling away from us faster than the speed of light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So for us, they cease to exist.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Now, inside our Milky Way galaxy, you cannot go faster than light.
		But between galaxies, okay, there is nothingness.
		And this nothingness can, in fact, expand faster than the speed of light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the net effect is that these galaxies appear to be speeding away, even though that's not really what's happening, is it?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		It's that the distance between them is increasing.
		Space is increasing between them.
		Let's say you are sitting on a carpet, okay?
		And you, of course, are stationary, and the furniture is stationary, but you can, of course, distort the carpet.
		You can have objects move toward you, and the carpet wrinkles, or you can have the carpet unwrinkle and objects move away from you.
		Actually, nothing really moved, of course, because you're all sitting on the same carpet.
		It's the carpet that moved.
		You see?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do see, actually.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		So if you're sitting on a carpet and people then begin to move objects on the carpet, it's the carpet that is actually wrinkling, expanding, stretching.
		You, sitting there, don't feel anything.
		You're just sitting there minding your own business, sitting on this carpet.
		So when you see this galaxy, the galaxy is not really moving at all.
		Somebody on that galaxy would say, I'm perfectly fine.
		I'm stationary.
		It's the empty space between the two that is expanding.
		So when we talk about the Big Bang on television, you usually see this explosion.
		Actually, the Big Bang was not big, and it was not a bang.
		It was not big, because, of course, it was smaller than an atom.
		And there was no bang because there was no air.
		But also, there was no explosion because it was space itself that expanded.
		The particles there, they were stationary.
		It's just that the empty space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What should we call it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The big occurrence?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, big is incorrect.
		Bang is incorrect.
		And explosion is incorrect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The important event.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you call it?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, we physicists just like to call it a quantum fluctuation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, some call it creation, right?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, we call this eternal creation.
		The new picture emerging, okay, and this is a picture that all the science magazines are now finally realizing, is the multiverse.
		And we no longer think of a universe.
		We now believe that these inflationary universes are for free, they don't take much to create, and that tears in the fabric of hyperspace happen all the time, like boiling water.
		And we have a multiverse, and in our universe, it's expanding quite rapidly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But we haven't proven that part yet.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That part hasn't been proven.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but what we do seem to be proving is that it's going to get lonely and dark, and stuff is going to start disappearing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, so we've proven the first part, and we don't know about the life wrath part.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That's speculation.
		However, we have the laws of physics, and we do have an understanding of how things will eventually end.
		For example, the Earth.
		The Earth will die in fire rather than ice.
		The Earth will die when the Sun expands and eats up the Earth.
		The Sun will basically make the sky go on fire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's our local ending.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's our local ending.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		The oceans will boil, the mountains will melt, and the sky will be on fire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Otherwise, of course, it'll be a nice day.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Otherwise, it'll be a nice day.
		So there will be one last nice day on the planet Earth about five billion years from now.
		Now, the sun itself will die.
		The sun will die not in fire, a supernova, but will die in ice.
		The sun is not big enough, the supernova.
		It's not big enough to create a black hole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's karma for the sun for having destroyed us.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		The sun will basically become a piece of cinder, nuclear cinder.
		It'll be basically a dark dwarf star.
		But the universe itself, we think now, and the data seems almost overwhelming.
		So many independent pieces of data from balloons and satellites and what have you, seem to indicate the universe will die in ice.
		And this, of course, will take trillions upon trillions of years, so you don't have to take an insurance policy anytime soon.
		But yeah, the universe itself seems to be, A, going to be a very lonely place.
		our Milky Way galaxy will be the only galaxy out there.
		All the other galaxies like Andromeda and Virgo will...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, hold on a moment.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		It's just all going to go away.
		I mean, that much we know.
		It's all going to just vanish.
		Think about that during the break.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		Her hair is hollow, gold.
		Her lips are sweet and surprised.
		Her hands are never cold.
		She's got better days.
		She's tired of using fun.
		You won't have to think of New York snow.
		She got better days besides Can she tease you?
		She'll unhease you Watching every motion In my foolish love escape On this endless ocean Finally love has no shame Turning every time In juicy
		secret face inside Watching in slow motion As you turn around and say Save my world away To rechart belt in the Kingdom of Nai, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your ATT operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with our bell on the Premier Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, that's how it's all gonna end, huh?
		Now that's, of course, unless we find a light raft in the form of another universe to more or less pick up sticks and move to.
		I wonder.
		I wonder if this other universe would be inhabited.
		Whether what we'd be doing would be called an invasion, an alien invasion with us being the aliens.
		Or could it be that some other universe right now that's already meeting this fate would take their lifeboat and one day suddenly arrive here?
		I think we'll ask about that.
		Well, if there's all these bubbles.
		And there are all these universes and they will inevitably, in some of them, becoming, you know, start to get to this dangerous point where it's getting real lonely, and they learn how to make the hop, if the hop is indeed possible,
		then shouldn't we imagine, Professor, that we might pop into a universe which, well, say, where we wouldn't be welcome, where there'd be, you know, it'd be relatively populated already and we wouldn't be welcome at all.
		Or, conversely, shouldn't we be on the lookout for somebody else out there with a life raft headed our way?
		We look pretty good in green.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, I thought about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		First of all, we are talking about civilizations trillions now, trillions of years more advanced than us.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		When you see the local TV stations talk about flying saucers from outer space, you're talking about a civilization maybe a few thousand years, maybe a million years at maximum, more advanced than us, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		But now when you're talking about leaving a universe, you're talking about civilizations trillions and trillions upon years more advanced than us.
		Now, we recall the classification of type 1, 2, and 3.
		This would be type 4, I think.
		Now, remember, if you look at the universe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To us, they would appear godlike.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		In other words, what do we see in the universe?
		We see planets, we see stars, and we see galaxies.
		However, there is something beyond galaxies now that is driving this runaway universe, and that's called dark energy.
		Now, dark energy is the energy of the vacuum, the energy of nothing.
		Even nothingness has energy.
		It is the power of the continuum, as they say in Star Trek.
		It is the power of the Q. Now, Nikolai Tesla talked about the energy of nothing.
		Einstein talked about the energy of nothing, dark energy.
		But no one got anywhere with it because we couldn't measure anything.
		Emptiness seemed pretty empty to us.
		That's where this new development in astronomy comes in.
		What is driving the runaway universe?
		What's pushing the galaxies apart?
		What's creating this anti-gravity?
		It is precisely dark energy.
		So we now know that dark energy is perhaps 10 times more plentiful than dark matter, which in turn is 10 times more plentiful than you and me and ordinary matter.
		So most of the universe is invisible.
		Most of the universe is in a form of dark matter, matter that has gravity, but you can't see it.
		It's invisible.
		And dark energy, the energy of nothing, the energy that Tesla and Einstein talked about.
		So any civilization, any civilization that powerful, that powerful that they can see their universe die, they can see the universe getting colder and colder, would, I think, have the ability to cook universes in an oven.
		Now, Professor Alan Guth, he's the man who came up with this idea of the inflationary runaway universe.
		And he also has a second idea at MIT.
		And this idea is cooking a universe in an oven.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're like popping in a microwave and sterilizing.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		So he says that if you could take a microwave oven and heat the contents to about 100 trillion trillion degrees, I think is the number he came up with.
		And remember, a supernova is only one trillion or so degrees.
		We're talking about 100 trillion trillion degrees.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really high.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Then inside your microwave oven, an umbilical cord is going to open up, a tear.
		You will only see, of course, a small ball.
		You would see a sphere, a small sphere.
		But that sphere is one end of an umbilical cord to another universe dangling in hyperspace.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've had some embarrassing things happen in my microwave, but nothing quite like that.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Nothing quite like this, right?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		You can ruin pizza in a microwave oven, but here we're talking about ruining universes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or you can blow things up, too.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and again, if you have this, not type 3, but perhaps type 4 capability, you may have the ability to concentrate the energy of stars and the energy of galaxies, perhaps, in a crash program to leave the universe, concentrate this energy in one point, in a microwave omen, such that a ball will open up, a little sphere, and this sphere will be a stargate.
		It will be a wormhole.
		It's one end of the umbilical cord, which will look like a sphere.
		And if you were to fall through it, you would go through the umbilical cord, perhaps to God knows where.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God knows where, perhaps another universe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would there, at that point, in your view, be a way to direct the destination of the other end?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, you would have to do the calculation extremely precisely to calculate what is out there in neighboring universes.
		Now, remember, we physicists are just beginning to do experiments now in parallel universes.
		When I first appeared on your program a few years ago, many people thought, well, this is loony, right?
		Parallel universes.
		Now we have experiments.
		This is being taken very seriously by the world of physics.
		Experiments looking for the presence of nearby universes.
		So far we find nothing.
		Our universe does seem to be lonely in this sector of hyperspace, but we now have experiments looking for the presence of other nearby universes.
		Now, the LHC, the Large Hadron Collider, will be turned on in Geneva, Switzerland in a few more years.
		Also, gravity wave detectors are going to be turned on probably next year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And could one of these things lead to the discovery of another universe?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		One of these things could pick up vibrations from another universe.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		So again, we're talking about hard data now for the cynics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		The biggest atom smasher on Earth, which is not finished yet, outside Geneva, Switzerland, the Large Hadron Collider, LHC, will be turned on in a few years.
		And next year, the first gravity wave detector will be turned on in the United States, which will detect the presence of colliding black holes.
		When black holes collide in outer space, they create shock waves.
		These shock waves are gravity waves, waves of gravity, and they should be detected across the United States.
		And so next year, we should turn it on.
		It's funded by the National Science Foundation in Washington.
		We should turn it on, and we should be able to detect vibrations from colliding black holes.
		Ultimately, we want to detect vibrations from the Big Bang itself.
		Now, that's going to be done in a 20-year timeframe.
		NASA approved money now for three satellites to be sent in outer space in an orbit parallel to the Earth's orbit, three satellites, each one a gravity wave detector, which will pick up vibrations from the Big Bang itself.
		We hope to get to within one trillionth of a second, I repeat, one trillionth of a second after Genesis with our gravity wave detectors.
		And that's now within a 20-year timeframe, and NASA is now talking about blueprints for sending these three satellites up there in outer space.
		So we're talking about serious bucks now, big bucks, not just the musings of theoretical physicists like myself, but big bucks going into devices which could perhaps pick up vibrations from black holes that collide, also vibrations from nearby universes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a great deal of talk about locality, non-locality out there right now.
		So I want to ask you a couple of pedestrian sort of questions here.
		I've mentioned to you in previous programs these experiments that we ran with having millions of people concentrate on, for example, creating rain or somebody's health or concentrating on time.
		And you remember I mentioned the Princeton experiments and the little computer eggs they had all over the world, reporting back to Princeton about spikes in what seemed to be these computers spitting out this random number of stuff, and then all of a sudden a non-randomness beginning to occur that just went, for example, off the charts on 9-11.
		That would be millions of mines having an effect on something.
		Now, I don't know how much coincidence as a scientist you're willing to buy into, but in New York State yesterday, when they did the pick three, there's this little machine that fires these ping-pong balls up into tubes that pick the number, the lucky number that holds millions of dollars for whoever picked it or whatever.
		Yesterday, this little machine spit up three ping-pong balls that said 9-1-1 in New York State for the lottery.
		Now, that seems like an unreasonable amount of coincidence to me.
		And I guess I'm saying, isn't this another possible example of an effect on what is otherwise a random number generator by millions of human minds operating on a non-local basis?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, you could look at it from several points of view.
		First of all, the cynic, of course.
		The cynic would say, well, 9-11 occurs all the time in the lottery, but we don't notice it.
		It's just that we only notice these things when something happens.
		But these events happen all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The cynic could say that, yes.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Like you're thinking about Joe, and all of a sudden Joe calls you on the telephone.
		And you say, oh, I'm psychic.
		But 99% of the time, you're thinking about Sally and Joseph and Harry, and no one calls you on the phone.
		But the one time that Joe calls you on the telephone, you are thinking about Joe, and you say, ah, I'm psychic.
		Now, there's another way of looking at it, too.
		There is something called non-locality.
		Einstein hated this idea of non-locality.
		Physics is based on the idea that if you jiggle an electron here in one place of the universe, on the other side of the universe, nothing is going to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so he was aware of the concept of non-locality.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		So he didn't like it at all.
		Well, Einstein was wrong.
		It turns out that non-locality, this is called the EPR experiment.
		Some of your guests may have referred to that.
		The Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen experiment has in fact been carried out.
		It was first carried out in France, in fact, in the 60s.
		Since then, it's been carried out many times.
		And it does appear as if Einstein was wrong on this question.
		The universe is actually non-local.
		So that if you make a measurement in one quadrant of our galaxy, in some sense, you know information on the other side of the universe instantly, faster than the speed of light.
		Indeed.
		Now, this has been measured in the laboratory a number of times now.
		So here's how the experiment works.
		You get, let's say you have a small explosion take place, and out of this small explosion, laser beams come out.
		One laser beam goes to the right, one laser beam goes to the left.
		Now, light is polarized.
		You can buy polarized lenses in the drugstore.
		Polarize up, down, left, or right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		So you know that the sum of the two polarizations must be zero because it started off from one object with no polarization.
		And if you measure the polarization of one light beam, let's say the polarization is up and down.
		Well, if it's up, this means that on the other side of the universe, where the light beam has gone over many, many millions of years, it must be down.
		Okay?
		Because it's up on one side, it must be down on the other.
		The sum must be zero.
		Sure.
		Well, you now know something about the universe faster than the speed of light, because you could have let those laser beams go on for years, millions of years.
		And so if you measure it here, then of course on the other side of the universe, you know something.
		Now, the Big Bang was an explosion.
		Everything came from an explosion.
		Actually, like I said before, it wasn't really an explosion.
		It was the expansion of space.
		But anyway, out of the Big Bang came many light beams, including us.
		Right.
		Therefore, if we make a measurement in our quadrant of the universe, in some sense, we know some information about the other side of the universe faster than the speed of light.
		Now, some people have claimed that maybe this is telepathy.
		Some people claim this is the subspace communicator on Star Trek when Captain Picard has to communicate with Starbase.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, telepathy is just a word.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Many people have said many things about this.
		However, there is a catch, and there's always a catch to these things.
		The catch is you cannot send Morse code this way.
		If, for example, you know that light on this side of the universe is up, spinning up, you now know that on the other side of the universe is a counterpart where it's spinning down.
		That doesn't mean you can send Morse code this way.
		That doesn't mean you can send a message this way.
unidentified		No, but it means that there is a connection.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		This is called quantum entanglement.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Now, some people have claimed that we can use quantum entanglement to teleport objects like they do on Star Trek.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I suppose if it was fully understood and mastered, that would be a logical supposition, wouldn't it?
unidentified		Right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And just a few months ago, it was announced that scientists have been able to teleport a little bit of laser light this way.
		Exactly.
		A few years ago, they announced that they were able to teleport one photon, one particle of light.
		Now they can do it with several particles of light.
		And some people are saying, well, gee, when do I get beamed up by Scotty?
		Well, remember, we're talking about individual particles.
		We're talking about individual electrons and individual photons.
		A human being is quite big.
		We're about, I don't know, 10 to the 25 atoms.
		That's how much it takes to make a human being.
		That's one with 25 zeros after it.
		That's a lot of atoms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of atoms.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		It may take a while before we have quantum teleportation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, that's why I asked you how much coincidence you're willing to believe in.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, I haven't seen these experiments, so I can't say.
		I'm a scientist, and we tend to like to look at the data, the beef, the smoking gun, as they say.
		And until I see the smoking gun, I can't really say.
		However, there is a mechanical engineer at Princeton who claims that by thinking, by thinking, you can affect the motion of a small little steel ball bearings that fall down a cascade.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Same effect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Same effect, yeah.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		He claims that by thinking, he can change the pattern, the pattern of a pile of ball bearings as they fall over like a little waterfall.
		It forms a big pile on the bottom of the waterfall, of course, right?
		He claims he can affect the shape of the pile.
		Well, I don't know.
		I haven't seen the numbers.
		But yeah, there is a mechanical engineer at Princeton who claims this.
		I want to see the hard data.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure after some of the shows we did, I bet you got to see the Princeton charts of the 9-11 non-random generators.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Are they in the web?
		I can download it off the web if you have a website for it.
		Oh, speaking of websites, my own website was recently totally overhauled by Michael Phillips, my webmaster.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		mkaku.org.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		M-K-A-K-U.org.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got the link up there now.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		It has lots of bells and whistles now.
		People were saying, well, you should have more bells and whistles on your website.
		My webmaster, Michael Phillips, put a lot of bells and whistles on it.
		So you can go to mkaku.org and have the chat room there.
		You can talk to other people who are interested in this thing, and lots of articles, and I'm going to be adding more articles onto that web page.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, you should have giant black holes you can click on to take you to different areas.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		In fact, you know, that's where hypertext and hyperlinks comes from.
		The people who linked the term, they understood the concept of hyperspace.
		So they use that concept from physics into the web.
		And the same thing with virtual reality.
		That also comes from physics.
		Virtual means this never-never land of quantum nothingness.
		And that's where the word virtual comes from.
		And so these terms on the web were created by physicists because, of course, we created the web.
		You know, the web is our baby.
		And so the whole concept of hypertext.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gosh, I thought it was Al Gore.
unidentified		Gee.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think so.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		It was a physicist who created the World Wide Web.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When we get back, I want to ask you one other pedestrian question having to do with an antenna that I did.
		I'm a ham radio operator.
		I just created a gigantic antenna.
		It's a 1,000-foot loop which has eight supports, large towers.
		I've got a 100-foot tower, so the highest point is 100 feet.
		And then I've got seven additional towers that are about 60 feet, and in circumference, it's about 1,000 feet on 2.5 acres.
		Now, there have been certain anomalies.
		I put this up about a week ago.
		I got contractors to do the work.
		It's a big lot of work, concrete pouring everywhere, and people to help me string the wire because I have a run back and blah, blah.
		But once I got it up, certain anomalies began to be present.
		It's got to be a physics question, so I want to ask you about it.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well then stay right there.
		We discussed that in the first hour, and if anybody will have the answer to this, it would be you, Dr. Kaku, from the high desert.
		I'm Art Bell, along with Dr. Michio Kaku, one of our nation's leading theoretical Physicists.
		And through the night, we will discuss the great mysteries of life.
		And that's what these are.
		They're the great mysteries of our lives, right?
		And oh my, they are great mysteries.
		In the nighttime, we'll be back.
unidentified		We've been traveling far We've been traveling far Winding your way down a vehicle street.
		Lighting your head and then on your feet.
		We're another crazy day.
		Drinking out away and forget about everything.
		This very gather makes you feel so cold.
		It's got so many people, but it's got no soul and it's taking too long.
		I thought you were wrong when you thought it held everything He used to think that it was so easy He used to say that it was so easy You're trying to make it be happy.
		How do we make it be happy?
		You're crying.
		You're crying.
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nai.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Good morning, everybody.
		One of our nation's greatest theoretical physicists, Dr. Michio Kaku, is my guest.
		And it's going to be a very interesting night.
		Already has been.
		So stay planted right where you are.
		We'll be right back.
		Well, all right.
		So let's finish this up.
		So I've built this monster antenna, bearing in mind its great circle.
		It's a loop.
		And it's supported at the highest point 100 feet, 60 feet the rest of the way around, and 1,000 feet in circumference.
		Now, it makes an unbelievable antenna.
		There's not much information on the internet about loops this big, but I decided what the hell.
		I can afford it.
		Let's construct it and see what happens.
		Well, what happened is it's the best antenna anybody's ever used, but a couple of anomalies.
		I happened to be holding, I bring the feedline for the antenna is open wire feeder, 450 ohm open wire feeder, and I bring it all the way into the house.
		And I noticed when I was holding on to one side of the antenna, and then I happened to touch ground, you know, chassis of one of the pieces of my equipment here, I got a hell of a shock.
		Shock.
		And I said, what?
		And I thought immediately, well, static buildup.
		Now bear in mind, this is number 10 wire, copper, coated with a really good ultraviolet protective cover so that in wind you don't get static buildup.
		That's a real problem with antennas, long antennas.
		I learned that long ago.
		So it's not the wind.
		In totally calm skies, not a cloud in the sky, no wind, there is, I measured it before airtime tonight, Professor, there's 349 to 350 volts consistently on that line.
		I mean, you can take it and you can discharge it to ground and see a blue spark, and immediately there is still that consistent voltage there.
		And it's obviously at a very low current, but it's consistently there.
		It's not like a buildup.
		It's not like static electricity.
		It's there all the time.
		What the hell is that?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Wow, sounds like a mystery, huh?
		You know, when you walk across a carpet and there's a spark that goes across from your fingertip to the doorknob, but it discharges and then it's gone.
		It discharges very rapidly, but you know, it's about a thousand volts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but it's gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then it's gone.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And it's gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		That's the problem.
		See, I can discharge it, touch it to ground, and then touch it to ground an instant later, and I get two sparks, and then three sparks.
		In other words, it's constantly there.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		You sure you're not picking up electrical activity in the air, like in a thunderstorm?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not sure at all, but I'm telling you, dead, clear skies with no wind.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Wow, it does seem strange, right?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		You ground it, and then you take it off ground, and it goes back up to, you know, 300 or so volts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		I see.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		So maybe somebody out there is trying to tell you something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've considered a number of things.
		Somebody called and said, well, maybe there's some black ops you live out there in the desert.
		Maybe somebody's got a lot of radiation in the air.
		And then somebody called and said, well, you know, maybe it's all the radio and TV transmitting and that big soup of RF that's always around us that somehow now you're managing to gather in.
		To which my wife then said, well, then if they put on a bad program, wouldn't that degrade the voltage?
		She actually said that.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And plus the DC you're picking up, right?
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		It's not like 60-cycled AC.
		No, picking up stuff from the air.
		It's 60-cycled AC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, okay, then we'll leave that as a puzzle.
		It's just that you mentioned Tesla, you mentioned zero point, and then, of course, there is a difference in potential, isn't there, between ground, Earth, and the upper atmosphere.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And you see that in thunderstorms, huge gradients because of static buildup.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But high as this antenna is, it shouldn't be.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		It's in daylight, without 60-cycle buzz anywhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Day, day or night.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Day or night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		Any time, right now, even.
		I could walk over there and shock myself right now.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		There's no military installation nearby, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, but no, no, I wouldn't go that far.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Because in military installations, they do experiment with electromagnetic pulse, you know, the electromagnetic pulse coming from hydrogen bombs.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		They regular experiment with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, I'm near Mercury.
		I'm near Nellis.
		I'm near the test site.
		Oh, no, there's military all over the place around.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, conceivably, I don't know, this is a wild guess.
		Conceivably, you could be picking up the electromagnetic pulse generators from our devices, which simulate hydrogen bombs.
		They simulate hydrogen bombs and they test aircraft.
		Because, you know, aircraft components get short-circuited.
		There's so much energy generated per meter that you short-circuit all of the electrical components.
		And, you know, they've been thinking about using that against Baghdad, for example, to wipe out communications over Baghdad by dropping an H-bomb over the city.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Electromagnetic pulse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		We simulated.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		We simulated on airfields, and we put our jets and our bombers to see whether or not you would short-circuit the electronics of our bombers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, then let me jump topics because there is no answer, apparently.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, the capacitive effect between the Earth and the atmosphere couldn't account for this.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, 300 volts, you know, a good electromagnetic pulse will get you like 100 volts per meter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, that requires a lot of military hardware, and I kind of doubt it, but I can't think of anything else which would generate that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the meantime, I'm going to have to put some bleeder resistors to ground to stop the effect.
		I just thought I would ask.
		It's a big mystery area.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		However, we do have gigantic radio telescopes like the VLA, the famous VLA, the Array Radio Telescope.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		You saw it in Contact, the movie Contact with Jody Foster.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, yes.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		They have a lot of experience dealing with antennas that are hundreds and hundreds of feet long.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		So you could probably call them and see whether they picked up this weird effect of voltage from nowhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps I will do exactly that.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because the VLA is our premier way of looking at the night sky.
		And many, many radio telescopes lash together, like in the movie.
		And speaking about these radio telescopes, by the way, these radio telescopes are so good now that we've detected 100 planets orbiting other star systems.
		Ten times the number of planets in our own solar system.
		We now can pick them out orbiting other star systems, which is really great.
		We have almost like an encyclopedia now of extrasolar solar systems that is really revolutionizing the way we view exobiology and exophysics.
		I mean, physics and biology off the planet Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mentioned Baghdad.
		So let me lead you into controversial territory for a moment.
		Our president just virtually said that if we have to, we're going to go and do the job in Baghdad ourselves.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		The lone gunman, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The lone gunman, if it must be.
		Now, I don't know whether you're privy, you probably are not, to any real intelligence about what Baghdad has.
		But how do you feel about the fact that this is more of a political question than a scientific one, unless you have scientific knowledge more than I'm aware of about what's going on in Iraq?
		But I mean, here they are potentially putting together nuclear devices.
		We think they're trying to do that.
		And certainly chemicals.
		We know they're doing that.
		And probably nasty, nasty biological weapons.
		And when you look at an enemy like Iraq, it seems to me you look at capability.
		And they would appear to have a capability, although that's intel, and intent.
		Well, they've already gassed and poisoned their own people.
		So that would seem to show what they're willing to do.
		And if they have it, they would probably be willing to do it to us.
		So the president's trying to make the case that we should do it to them before they do it to us.
		And there's a pretty big argument we're having here about whether we should do that or not.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Right?
		Well, look at what's been published concerning the worst case scenario in terms of what Iraq has.
		Iraq's been trying to get what are called aluminum tubing for ultra-centrifuges.
		Now, let me explain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		When we built the bomb back in the 1940s, we had huge, gigantic gas plants, gaseous diffusion plants, and we shot uranium gas to these plants.
		And the lighter uranium raced ahead of the heavier uranium.
		Because in a gas form, of course, lighter atoms outrace heavier atoms, which are slower and fatter, right?
		That's how we separated U-235, the good stuff, from U-238, which is basically dormant.
		That's how we built the Hiroshima bomb.
		These are huge, gigantic installations.
		You can pick them up by satellite.
		That's how we knew the Chinese were building atomic bombs because we saw them building these gaseous diffusion plants.
		Now, in the modern age, we use ultra-centrifuges.
		These little spinning wheels, spinning rods, where we create artificial gravity inside.
		And of course, as you know, heavy things fall to the bottom, light things rise to the top under gravity.
		You create enormous G-forces so that the heavy uranium sinks to the bottom and the light uranium rises to the top.
		And then you skim off the good stuff to make the atomic bomb.
		Now, these aluminum rods have to be very finely tuned.
		If you have one small machining error, You've just blown your whole thing to bits because it's spinning extremely rapidly under a lot of tension.
		Any crack, any malformation in these things would really destroy and explode the system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's hard to do, right?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		It's hard to do.
		Now, Iraq's trying to get them.
		Now, that means several things.
		One, it's trying.
		It's tried to get some of these aluminum tubing, very specially machined and milled aluminum tubing.
		Two, it means they don't have it yet.
		They don't have ultra-centrifuges.
		Now, it takes thousands of these ultra-centrifuges to make a bomb.
		Pakistan has several thousand.
		How do we know that?
		Because during the Reagan administration, the Reagan administration winked at Pakistan as it assembled several thousand, we estimate close to maybe 10,000, of these machines, ultra-centrifuge machines, and that's how it built the uranium bomb.
		Pakistan prefers uranium, India prefers plutonium in terms of how the Asian subcontinent is shaping up.
		So Saddam Hussein tried to go plutonium, tried to go for the reactor, but that reactor was bombed in 1981.
		That was the Osiric reactor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Israelis, I believe.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		The Israelis bombed it.
		So there's no reactor that Saddam Hussein has.
		So he can't use the easy way out.
		The easy way is to build the reactor and reprocess the waste and extract plutonium, you know, the good stuff, from the waste.
		He doesn't have that route anymore.
		It's been bombed.
		The other route is ultra-centrifuges.
		But the fact that he's been trying to smuggle them in, and this is what the Bush administration makes a big deal out of, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		To me indicates two things.
		One that it's trying, but yes, it's very primitive.
		You're talking about thousands.
		And of course, each one has many, many of these rods.
		It takes thousands of these ultra centrifuges operating continuously, continuously over years to extract weapons-grade material, which is, of course, what the Pakistanis did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so you're making the case that Saddam really doesn't have nuclear enough to worry about many, many, many years, assuming that he can assemble these things.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And that's no guarantee.
		He's been trying.
		He's been unsuccessful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, there's still chemical and biological to consider.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Which could be considerable, right?
		However, you have to realize, well, first of all, I was in the Army.
		I was in the United States Infantry for two years.
		And we were told one of the very simple basics of chemical and biological warfare.
		That is, these are very unstable agents.
		When you throw them in the wind, they sometimes go back in your face.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		So we were told, as a GI.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're talking about people here fully willing to be martyrs and as a grind.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're talking about stuff.
		You lost it in the air.
		And, you know, 50% of the time, the wind changes direction.
		And it gasses your own people, and it gasses your own troops.
		Your own troops are infected.
		And you have to distribute the vaccine and so on and so forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even that's a fairly awful but localized thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But biologicals, though, oh, gee.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, you know, germs, again, are fairly unstable.
		You know, the Bible mentions germ warfare.
		You know, you shoot dead carcasses into the wells of your enemy, shoot them over the barriers of your enemy's walls and poison the wells with dying carcasses.
		The Bible mentions germ warfare.
		So it's been around for quite a while.
		But again, it's unstable.
		You've got to make damn sure that your own people are vaccinated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, you're making a case that you don't think that they've got enough technological development in any one of those areas to justify going in and getting it.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, Bush himself would say that.
		The question is, what Bush asks is a more difficult question, and that is two years, five years down the line, what is he going to have?
		Because Bush himself admitted it.
		He don't got the smoking gun.
		I mean, Bush cannot prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he has the ultra-centrifuges in place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or if he can prove one of these things, he's not willing to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One of the two.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		One of the two, right?
		But most analysts would say that Bush's projection of two to five years is more reasonable than saying that he has the capability now.
		Now, my personal point of view is we should make damn sure that we have inspectors, inspectors with unlimited access.
		Now, remember, Saddam Hussein is a human being.
		He doesn't want to be roasted alive by smart palms.
		He knows at a certain point, if he's playing poker, if he's playing poker with the baddest man in town, which is us, right?
		At a certain point, he's got to put up a shutoff.
		At a certain point, if push comes to shut off, he would rather, I think, allow weapons inspectors come in than have cruise missiles come in.
		So I think Saddam Hussein is crafty, and he's no fool.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		If there's no pressure on him, he's not going to do nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's sat back and allowed the cruises to come in before as a matter of fact.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		He overplayed his hands.
		He overplayed his hand.
		He thought that American casualties would be so great that Americans would leave because Americans cannot stand casualties.
		You know, too many widows on light line every night talking about their dead sons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Didn't go that way, though.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Right, didn't go that way.
		So Salam Hussein miscalculated.
		But now he knows.
		Now he knows the power of smart weapons.
		So he has a choice.
		He can up the ante, but in a poker game, at a certain point, it's put up or shut up.
		At a certain point, he may back down.
		If it's a question of war, he may back down and allow inspectors to come in with 100% access to all his facilities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that would be a different story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, that has not occurred so far.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but you know, Bush is upping the ante, too.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		He's raising the stakes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then you think we're playing the game properly.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think we're playing poker.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do we have any choice?
		I mean, we're in the game.
		Do we have any choice?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have a royal flush.
		The royal flush is, of course, go in and take them out.
		However, as was told to me when I was a grunt in the United States Army, you have the royal flush and you pay a price for it because you don't know what the enemy is going to do.
		He may go for hand-to-hand combat in the cities, which is his ace in the hole.
		City warfare.
		And as a GI, I was always told the simple basics of infantry.
		In an open field, you are king.
		In a city, you are just dead meat like the next guy like your enemy.
		It's hand-to-hand warfare in a city, where there's no advantages to smart weapons when you're fighting block-to-block.
		That could be a bluff.
		That could be a bluff that Saddam Hussein is making.
		But look, we're talking poker.
		And my attitude is, if it gets down to the royal flush, there's an awful big price we're going to have to pay for that royal flesh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look at what occurred in Somalia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, what a disaster.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		So my compromise is, yeah, raise the stakes.
		But at a certain point, opt for unlimited access to all his weapons sites.
		Short of that, Saddam Hussein could say, okay, so sue me, which means war.
		So I would opt for some kind of unlimited access to weapon sites.
		And if he says no to that, then, yeah, maybe he's hiding something.
		But at the present time, I think Bush himself would admit that he don't got the ultra-centrifuge tubes.
		He don't got the tubes in place.
		Pakistan does, but he doesn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He don't got them, huh?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Nope, he don't got them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right.
		Stay right there.
		We'll be right back.
		My guest is Dr. Minchio Kaku, one of America's, in fact, the world's leading theoretical physicists.
		I'm Mark L. And raging through the nighttime, this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Dr. Baby Perfect!
		Day by day People getting ready for the moon Some are happy Some are sad Oh, I'm gonna let the music play What the people need Is a way to make them smile It ain't so hard to do with you now
		Gotta give a message, read it all through.
		Oh, now my book calls you and ask you why.
		Oh, why is the music?
		I'll never let it go.
		Thank you.
		I've got some is to let me show how much I love you, baby.
		I don't mind, and I don't mind.
		Girl, I love never watching.
		You are the sun, you are the rain.
		Make my mood and rain.
		You need to know I love you so And I do it all again and again Woah, woah, woah, yeah To rechart Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're still looking for the meaning of it all, aren't we?
		Perhaps that little equation.
		Dr. Michio Kaku is my guest.
		America, perhaps the world's greatest theoretical physicist, certainly one of them.
		Co-founder of the string theory itself.
		We'll be right back.
		Stay right there.
		Once again, here's Dr. Michio Kaku.
		And Dr. Kaku, you said we've discovered about 100 planets, but they're big planets.
		They're, you know, like Jupiter-sized planets, real monsters out there.
		The almost inevitability is that we will discover smaller planets around stars eventually as we're able to look deeper and better.
		And many of them, or some of them, might turn out to be Earth-like or able to support life.
		And I was really curious about something.
		If we were to detect life finally, even perhaps the probability of intelligent life on some other planet out there somewhere, as we get better and better, and yet there has been no contact from them.
		What conclusions should we play around with trying to draw from that?
		In other words, they're there, but they haven't tried to contact us in any way that we have yet understood.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a matter of speculation, but my speculation is that if we're like ants in an anthill and somebody's building a 10-lane superhighway next door, would the ants even know what a 10-lane superhighway is?
		Would they be able to communicate with the workers?
		Would they be able to decipher what's happening with this gigantic 10-lane superhighway?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		In other words, the galaxy could be teeming with Type 3 civilizations, and yet we're being type 0 are so primitive, we wouldn't even know that right next door, there could be a 10-lane hyper-highway going by.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then, for that reason, is SETI and narrow a pretty narrow long shot?
unidentified		That's right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		They're only looking at one frequency, one frequency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hydrogen.
		Well, they're expanding now into light.
		But I mean, even so, even so, is it a pretty big long shot that, in other words, is it likely that eventually we'll discover an Earth-like planet and signs of some sort of intelligence or civilization before we hear from them in one way or another?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		If possible, within the next 10 to 15 years, NASA is going to be sending up what are called interferometry satellites.
		These are satellites that are so accurate, they would in fact be able to detect Earth-like planets, not Jupiter-sized planets, but planets that look just like good old terra firma orbiting other star systems.
		And so the current generation of telescopes and radio telescopes can't do it.
		We can only pick up Jupiter-size, so it's no wonder we pick up these abnormal oddballs out there, because that's all our instruments can pick up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, when we get to the life part, then would we infer that they're so far ahead of us that they left electromagnetic-type communications in the dust millions or billions of years ago, or they just don't care to contact us, or don't care whether we're here or not?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it's a combination of the above.
		I think they may have abandoned using simple electromagnetic radiation.
		It goes back to the person who lost his keys, and he looks underneath a lamppost, even though that's not where he dropped his keys.
		And he looks underneath the lamppost because that's where the light is.
		But the key, of course, dropped outside where the light is illuminating.
		So, in other words, scientists only look where it's easy.
		We look at electromagnetic radiation, radio in the hydrogen frequency, because it's easy.
		We haven't done the hard stuff, which is to look at all spectrums.
		And we haven't looked at other kinds of radiation, neutrino radiation.
		There's a lot of radiation besides electromagnetic radiation.
		We haven't looked at these things because our instruments are not fine enough.
		We can just barely detect neutrinos at the present time with our devices.
		Neutrinos, for example, could go right through stars.
		It'd be the ideal form for a very, very advanced civilization is to use neutrinos because it would go right through star systems and galaxies.
		You would have interferences, static, to worry about.
		And we can just barely pick up neutrinos with our underground salt mines at the present time.
		So all I'm saying is, first of all, we don't really know for sure.
		We're speculating.
		But my attitude is, first of all, that they're going to be using other frequencies, other kinds of radiation.
		B, that they could be communicating in a way so far beyond us that we're just like ants.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or that is, if they have even attempted to communicate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, isn't it possible that a life form would exist that would have and could evolve even technically and have absolutely no interest because of the way they're made up?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because we're so arrogant to believe that anyone who's out there is going to come to us, visit us, and give us trinkets and beads, and they take us to our leader.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		I don't do that to ants, so why should they do it to us?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		So we're so arrogant to believe that they're going to go out of their way, go out of their way to visit us, make contact, and give us all sorts of energy and power and medicine and stuff like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, but then on the other hand, Professor, I was out in the middle of the street yesterday with my wife, and we were watching this ant carry this long stick, about three times bigger than he was.
		He was carrying this stick for whatever reason, across the road.
		And we just stood there and watched the ant.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we didn't step on it.
		We didn't do any of that.
		We just watched it in wonderment and then walked away.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		In other words.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't it possible that we're being watched occasionally in the same manner?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And as I mentioned before, I think they're watching from the moon.
		You know, the moon has been getting a lot of interest lately.
		A lot of people are saying we should vacation on the moon and go back to the moon, the romance of the Apollo program and so on and so forth.
		It's very cheap now, by the way, to send rockets up there, you know, compared to what it was in the 60s.
		And if we do ever go to the moon, I think we should do a complete scan of all energy sources on the moon, like they did in the movie 2001, because I firmly believe that there is a chance that if a passing Type 3 civilization were to find our solar system interesting, they would have left a probe, a probe on our moon.
		It's the most logical place to place a probe.
		No erosion, very stable.
		They can observe us and not be interfered with.
		No one's going to tamper with it and break into the device.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The obelisk.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Right, and they'll simply wait for our transition from type 0 to type 1 when we become interesting.
		See, we're not really interesting as a civilization yet.
		We're scattered into a bunch of savage nations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, well, let's say we make it to type 1.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Then we're very interesting.
		Then the probe should pick up type 1 activity, type 1 technology, type 1 politics and culture and stuff.
		Were we interesting?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But at that point, would that be, from the perspective, isn't there an even shot that from their perspective, that might be as dangerous and negative as we imagine it might be positive and warm and fuzzy?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		No, I think it's going to be very positive because once you're type 1, you're planetary and you've had centuries to work out sectarian, religious, racial, nationalistic, fundamentalist passions that we inherited from the swamp and from the forest.
		And we'll have many hundreds of years stuck on this planet.
		Because we're not going to terraform Mars in any time soon.
		We're going to be stuck on the Earth for a while.
		And as a consequence, we're going to have many centuries by which to work out all the differences we have.
		And so at that point, we'd become truly interesting to a civilization.
		When you were watching the ants, you didn't want to communicate with them because you didn't have much to offer.
		However, you know, if the ants were to evolve into a higher state, maybe you might want to make contact with them.
		And same thing with a probe on the moon.
		If a passing type 3 civilization left a probe on the moon, it would activate when we became truly type 1, when we had a technology to be interesting.
		Right now, we're not very interesting to them.
		I mean, if they can sail across interstellar space, you know, chart the solar winds of the galaxy, if they could do that, they're at least 10,000, 100,000 years ahead of us.
		And, you know, we're not interesting for them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But they could observe us in idle curiosity from time to time as I watch the ant across the street.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Probably from the moon.
		They would leave a robot probe, an automatic probe, to monitor our development.
		And, you know, we're making progress.
		You know, the Internet is a beginning Type 1 telephone system.
		The European Union is a beginning type 1 economy and NAFTA as well.
		English will be the dominant type 1 language.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Seems to be moving that way.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And Madonna and Arnold Schwarzenegger and rap music and Eminem will be the type 1 culture of the future.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		We can look forward to centuries of rock and roll.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is why we get old and pass away so we don't have to put up with that.
		Right.
		Another subject.
		There's absolutely no question about it.
		Of course, I live in the desert, so we expect dry conditions here in the desert.
		But all across the United States, the world, well, certainly across the U.S. and North America, we are seeing an intense, really gigantic drought that hardly anybody's talking about.
		And somehow they haven't put it together with what's going together in, for example, what's going down in Europe, where they're flooding.
		It's horrible.
		It's weather change, profound weather change, it would appear to be underway Right now, right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Look at the big picture.
		We have flooding in Germany and Czech Republic.
		We have droughts and flooding both in China and in large parts of Asia.
		Large parts of Africa have a huge drought.
		And as you mentioned, a lot of American farmers' farms are going belly up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They know what kind of flooding.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		They can see that in their wheat and corn output, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And my understanding and my attitude is that this is not directly attributable to global warming, because, of course, global warming is a long-term effect.
		However, it's consistent.
		It's consistent with an acceleration of global warming.
		What global warming will do is exacerbate differences.
		Some people think the Earth is just going to get hot.
		Well, yes, that's true, too.
		But what it really does is exacerbate differences, which means flooding in one area simultaneous with drought in another area.
		Because if you get more water evaporation from one part of the Earth, the water has to go someplace.
		It condenses someplace else, and it creates a flood someplace else.
		So we have flooding, flooding and droughts simultaneously taking place.
		And so I think that all these signs are consistent with the acceleration of global warming.
		All the bizarre weather, the forest fires, by the way, the forest fires, you forgot to mention them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That in turn is due to the fact that we have a drying out, a drying out where our forests become tinder.
		We have a drying out process, a flooding process, and a drought process, as well as an infestation of mosquitoes, all simultaneously.
		And we could look forward to malaria spreading, already West Nile virus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now in California, I live in one of the only states.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It has not yet appeared.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And mosquitoes love a warmer climate.
		And in Africa, we are now seeing the spread of the malaria-infested areas as Africa warms up.
		Malaria is going to be spreading to our larger areas.
		And we're seeing it, the first effects of this, I think, in terms of the West Nile virus.
		And again, you can't say that any one of these things is directly attributable to global warming, but you put the big picture together.
		They're all consistent.
		And that's what global warming does.
		It exacerbates differences.
		Flooding, droughts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, maybe this will fit in with that somehow or another.
		Again, from Science News, September 7th, Volume 162, the article is Chimp Change.
		And it says, did an HIV-like virus ravage early chimps?
		Two million years ago, chimpanzees experienced a drastic loss of variability in certain genes that help them fight viruses, a new study reports.
		Widespread infection with an HIV-like virus may have pruned from the species individual chimps with some of these immunity genes.
		Now, as we know, the chimps are immune to HIV, and it may be that at one time on Earth they were saying chimps were virtually wiped out with the exception of the few who evolved with an immunity.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And the same thing happened to humans.
		We suspect that about 500 years ago or so, there was a catastrophe that hit Europe that wiped out a huge chunk of the European population, leaving a good chunk of the population immune to certain diseases.
		You know, 1% of European people, 1%, are totally immune to AIDS.
		They can be repeatedly infected.
		Certain prostitutes can be repeatedly infected, and they never come down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I think that's the same thing.
unidentified		We found out the research.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Africa.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Africa as well.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		We found out the reason why.
		These people are mutants.
		Their cells have no docking site for an HIV virus.
		A virus has to have a docking site on a cell to dock onto, like a space probe docking onto a satellite.
		The virus has dock onto cells to infect the cells.
		What happened was about 500 years ago or so, a plague, probably the black plague, the famous black plague, which wiped out, I don't know, half of Europe, skewed the evolution of European people in the direction of creating more Europeans with T cells that lack the docking site for the black plague.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Now it turns out the docking site for the black plague is the same, we think, as the docking site for HIV.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		So accidentally, it's given 1% of European people total immunity to HIV because their ancestors hundreds of years ago suffered a calamity called the black plague.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then obviously there's research going on to try and find out how to confer this immunity and make it widespread to violence.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's difficult because gene therapy, you know, we've only had our first success just a few months ago in France.
		You know, the bubble boy syndrome was cured.
		There are four boys now.
		One of them did a press conference last week that is apparently cured of the bubble boy syndrome.
		So we can now tinker with the genetic heritage on a limited scale, curing boys without any immune, a very weak immune system by infecting them with viruses that contain the good germ, with the good genes, I'm sorry.
		And so these people are infected with essentially a cold virus containing the good gene, and that's what viruses do.
		They infect our genes with foreign genes, and we insert good genes and correct the bubble boy syndrome.
		Now in the future, we may be able to do that to AIDS, because, you know, as you mentioned, there is simian SIV, but SIV is not fatal.
		HIV and SIV, neither of them are really fatal to chimpanzees.
		And we think it hopped over, just like smallpox.
		You know, most diseases, by the way, hopped over from animals.
		And that's why we think AIDS is just like all the other diseases that have hopped over from animals.
		And we think that we'll be able to perhaps one day find the genetic mutation that makes chimps invulnerable and makes Europeans also invulnerable to HIV.
		Totally invulnerable because they lack the docking site.
		HIV can't grab on to these T cells.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's an article I also have about human cloning, as long as we're talking about genetics.
		And a new study on cloning shows more than ever now that it's probably a very bad idea to replicate or attempt to replicate human beings.
		The study performed by researchers at the Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research in Boston found that cloning to create new animals will almost always create abnormal creatures.
		In other words, terrible things go wrong.
		Dolly, the cloned sheep with the arthritis and various clones, stillbirths, early aging, other health problems, already suggest big problems with cloning in animals.
		And of course, to try it with human beings is to jump way ahead, even though there are people out there trying to do that right now.
		So this kind of research may not work.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think cloning is going to be a dead end.
		I think it'll be used mainly for animal husbandry.
		And I think that the only humans who will clone are going to be rich people.
		And they will clone themselves because they have no heirs that can carry on the name or no heirs to particularly care for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If it's practical, in other words, what they're saying is it's a genetic disaster every time they try it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even with animals.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, the bugs are very big.
		And it's going to take a long while to get them out.
		You see, cloning is done by taking cells and heating them up and disturbing them, basically jiggling them.
		And then, lo and behold, they become embryos again.
		Now, we don't know how that happens.
		It's magic.
		You simply shake a black box and out comes out a clone.
		It's almost magic.
		We don't know how it works, but there's a price you pay.
		And the price you pay is because you're scrambling all these genes.
		It's no wonder you're going to get monsters, deformed animals.
		For every one animal that comes out, right, there's scores of deformed, horrible-looking monster-like animals that didn't come out, right, with arms and legs coming out of the wrong places and stuff.
		You never see that, okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		Well, they don't show us the monster.
		But should this research be halted until we understand at least enough of the basics to not make as many monsters?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think for humans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold the answer to that question.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		I've been where the eagle flies, rolled his wings across all the skies, kissed the sun, touched the moon.
		But he left me much too soon.
		His ladybird, he left his ladybird.
		Ladybird, come down.
		I'm here waiting on the ground.
		Ladybird, I'll treat you good.
		Ah, ladybird, I wish you would you, Lady Bird Pretty Ladybird.
		lightning flashed across the sky A white bird in a golden cage on a winter's day in the rain.
		white bird in a golden cage alone The leaves blow across the long black road to the darkened sky in its rage.
		but the white bird just sits in her cage, unknown White bird must fly, she will die.
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is indeed.
		My guest is one of our nation's, the world's greatest theoretical physicist, Dr. Michio Kaku.
		And by the way, his website is linked on ours.
		It briefly was unable to handle the traffic, but I suggest you go to my website, artbell.com.
		Look under the name Dr. Michio Kaku.
		You'll see mkaku.org and click on that.
		Make note of it.
		Put it in your browser.
		Keep going back.
		That's where it's all happening.
		now listen Indeed.
		We're going to open the lines, and I'm going to let you ask Dr. Kaku anything you would like to ask.
		So those are the phone numbers, and we're about to launch into your questions.
		If you have one, that's what we're here for.
		We'll be right back.
		Well, all right, so we're about to take calls, but, you know, I understand it's kind of a, I guess it's an ethical question more than it is a scientific question.
		But in view of the monsters that we are creating, we were discussing, should we stop or at least pause until we understand enough that we don't create as many monsters or at least restrict human cloning?
		And then, of course, people are going to go ahead around the world with it anyway, so would that do any good?
		What's your position?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that we should definitely put some restrictions on human cloning because of the fact we're going to be Creating hundreds of mistrials for every one clone that seems to come out normal.
		So I think cloning, as far as its future is concerned, will be used basically for animal husbandry.
		And I think that, yeah, laws will be passed to restrict this.
		However, I think that the real breakthroughs are going to be made in the area of designer children.
		That is, being able to design the genetic heritage of our children, hopefully not for silly cosmetic reasons, but to create children that are healthier, that don't have the 5,000 or so genetic diseases that have been cataloged by geneticists over the years.
		So I think that there is a future for this, but cloning is really not going to be part of it.
		Again, rich people will use it to clone heirs for themselves because they don't like the heirs they already have.
		But for the most part, I think the real action is going to be curing genetic diseases.
		That's where the action is going to be, which include, by the way, not just TA-SACs for Jews or sickle cell anemia for African Americans or cystic fibrosis for Northern Europeans, but also at some point, maybe even curing cancer.
		Because cancer, we now know, has genetic roots.
		Cancer is caused by roughly four or so mutant genes that make the cell go crazy.
		So we may have essentially future cures for arthritis, heart disease, maybe even cancer by attacking it at the genetic level.
		That's coming.
		That's coming in the next 10, 20 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we've got to manage this technology very carefully and not go too quickly.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's more powerful than the atomic bomb.
		You realize that when I was in high school, Edward Teller took an interest in me and was sort of my mentor throughout college and even into graduate school.
		And I was always impressed by the power of the atom, but also the secrecy, the enormous secrecy that went on.
		Edward Teller offered me a job in Livermore National Laboratories and Los Alamos National Laboratories, where there was a lot of government secrecy.
		So I would hope that genetic engineering is not developed in the same way that the bomb was developed under Cold War secrecy.
		And now, of course, we have all the revelations about human radiation trials and rotting nuclear waste dumps and all the horror stories coming out of World War II in Russia at the end of the year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Professor, but if they're not doing this, pursuing it in secret right now, then they surely have changed their ways.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm not sure I can buy that.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, at Fort Dietrich, of course, outside Washington, D.C., that's where a lot of the real nasty stuff goes on with designer germ warfare.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And there's one documented instance where a germ was almost unleashed accidentally from Fort Dietrich.
		It might have hit Washington.
		Cynics, of course, say that it would only have wiped out politicians, so no big deal, right?
		But I think that if a bug escapes from one of our germ warfare facilities like Fort Dietrich, we have to be very mindful of that we're playing God here.
		We're tinkering with life here.
		But I think the peaceful applications of this are enormous in terms of curing diseases, because that's where it's going to be at.
		Today we can cure SCIDS, the Bulba Boy Syndrome.
		I think within the next five years, we're going to be curing a lot of other genetic diseases that are fairly common, as I mentioned, that affect different ethnic groups.
		And I think we're going to see a revolution take place in a five, ten year framework with genetic engineering and gene therapy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's try a few calls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Dmitrio Kaku.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello.
unidentified		I'm glad to have you back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Dr. Kaku, I think you're an inspiration.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I'm going to try to be quick here so the other people can get a chance.
		I remember you gave a presentation concerning dark matter.
		That's right.
		And you went into how it was first postulated by a woman and how she was laughed out and all that stuff.
		And then you went on to say when they started looking into it more, they said there was a possibility and that it went against, I guess, Newtonian laws or something like that.
		And so rather than throw out the laws, they did something else in order to make it fit.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Okay, good.
		My point is this.
		What really caught my attention is when you said rather than getting rid of Newtonian laws, and my point is this, could it be that a lot of things that most physicists postulate or theorize about, they're unable to make manifest because of the fact that they're restricted by the laws of physics.
		In other words, rather than if, let's take anti-gravity, if a person wanted to invent something like that, but the laws of physics prevented them from doing so by going outside of that and not allowing the laws of physics to restrict them,
		it would be possible that there's a lot of things that we could make manifest, except that's the fact that we allow the laws of physics, which is really kind of like our understanding of the universe to get in the way.
		I mean that they're there's the way we understand the universe and the way it works.
		Well thinking that maybe our laws of physics, you know, not to scrap all the laws, but perhaps maybe we can think out of the box and not allow that to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right, all right.
		But caller, thank you.
		Or put another way.
		Let me read this very quickly, one paragraph email.
		I'd love to hear Dr. Kaku talk about his university and if the great divide between science and the humanities is an entrenched aspect of life in that cultural institution.
		How much of a rejection of science is there?
		What kind of educational service is it?
		If a university is not altogether agreed about the one world we all live in, of course, there are different views to be had and examined concerning the real world.
		But we have to know what we are talking about.
		In other words, same world, don't we?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, I think a lot of interesting things were mentioned.
		First, let me tackle dark matter.
		Back in the 60s, Vera Rubin, a female astronomer, talked about the fact that the Milky Way galaxy is spinning too fast for its own good.
		It should fly apart like a pinwheel that goes too fast.
		Now, the galaxy is quite stable.
		I mean, our sun is anchored in the Milky Way galaxy, but by rights, we should be flying off into deep space.
		So the question is, why are we here?
		And the answer is, Because dark matter holds the galaxy together.
		Now, as little caller mentioned, if we assume Newton's laws are correct, then we have to assume that some new object is holding the galaxy together because Newtonian physics says the galaxy should fly apart.
		So rather than abandon Newton, we simply postulate a new form of matter called dark matter, and now we have lots of evidence from the Hubble Space Telescope and things like that for dark matter.
		Now, there is a precedent in the other direction.
		When Einstein was looking at the orbit of Mercury, he realized that Mercury's orbit deviated slightly from Newton's laws of motion.
		Therefore, people were looking for the planet Vulcan.
		The planet Vulcan was supposed to be inside the orbit of Mercury.
		They looked for it because they believed in Newton.
		They believed in the so-called laws of physics, so there must be planet Vulcan.
		Einstein comes along and says, to hell with Vulcan, I have a new theory.
		Newton was wrong.
		There are new laws of physics.
		Space is curved, says Einstein.
		And of course, Vulcan was never found, but Einstein's equations come out very correct.
		And in fact, satellites have now tested Einstein's theory to about 1% accuracy, looking at quasars and looking at huge astronomical distances.
		We have ample proof of the correctness of the fact that space is curved.
		So there is always a possibility that the laws of physics are incomplete.
		However, so far, we haven't seen too many deviations.
		The big deviation will be at the instant of the Big Bang, and that we think is where superstring theory will begin to take over, and we have to go to theories in 10 and 11 dimensional hyperspace.
		So until we delve into the real guts of the Big Bang itself, ordinary Einsteinian physics is pretty good, and we see no big deviations from ordinary Einsteinian physics until, of course, you go at the instant of the Big Bang.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, but we're beginning to get up to the edges.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I wonder, again, with what I read, how much of a rejection, how much of a problem within the university, for example, where you are, New York City University.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there a great raging controversy about this edgy stuff?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, the City University of New York is one of the largest systems in the country.
		It's a huge system.
		And I teach at the flagship university, the City College of New York, but the City University of New York has Brooklyn College and Queens College and a whole bunch of senior colleges and junior colleges.
		It's a huge educational system.
		And it produces lots of scholars at both the PhD level and the undergraduate level.
		But unfortunately, I have to say that I would actually like it if there was some kind of raging debate with controversies and people yelling and screaming at each other about these questions.
		But as you know, on most universities, people debate sex in the city and people debate M ⁇ M. And look, I can't force them.
		The kids would rather debate rat music and the finer points of disco than debate the meaning of life and the whole question of string theory and hyperspace and parallel universes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How widespread is that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you have 100 students, how many of them would you put in the category of those who pay rapt attention and are immersed in this controversy versus those who are in the category you just spoke of?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, when I wrote the book Hyperspace, you know, people said, well, gee, this is a book about the cutting edge of reality, you know, where Einstein's theory breaks down.
		And what kind of audience are you going to have for a book like that?
		People would just want to watch Ofra Rimfrey.
		And unless you get part of her book club, you're not going to get anywhere.
		But the book became a bestseller, and I was very pleasantly surprised that there are lots of people who buy books like Stephen Hawking's book, because they're curious.
		They want to know where we came from.
		They want to know where we're going.
		And they want to know whether there's any meaning to it or what is our role in the larger scheme of things.
		So I'm pleasantly surprised that even though on any student campus you can see people listening to rap music and shaking their booties to whatever song is the latest rage, there are students who hunger, who really hunger for knowledge of something bigger than just what's happening down the street.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, the critical is by percentage, are there enough in that category to see to it that the politicians move enough funding into areas of interest for yourself?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would hope so, but it's always a struggle with the government to get the next generation of satellites.
		Remember the supercollider that was supposed to be built in Texas?
		Oh, yes.
		That was our baby.
		That machine, the superconducting supercollider, the SSC, was to be the biggest machine ever conceived of in the history of science, period.
		It was the machine that Ronald Reagan pushed that was supposed to eventually confirm theories like string theory and 10, 11-dimensional hyperspace and Higgs bosons and things like that.
		But they canceled it.
		And it's very sad, but in front of the United States Congress, some congressmen were asking physicists questions about this.
		One congressman said, will we find God with this machine?
		And of course, the scientist's jaw hit the floor and he didn't know what to say.
		I would have said something like, God, by whatever signs and symbols you use ascribed to the deity, this machine will take us the closest that is humanly possible to that conception.
		Unfortunately, scientists are not used to speaking this language.
		The scientists flubbed the whole question and they canceled the machine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You should have been sitting there.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		They canceled, no, they paid $5 billion for us to dig a hole for the machine.
		And they canceled it.
		They gave us a billion dollars to fill it up.
		Can you imagine anything more useless than giving us a billion dollars to fill up a hole?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
		That's what Congress did.
		I can't.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Dr. Michio Kaku.
		Good morning.
		Hello?
		Oh, didn't push the button.
		Now you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		What I wanted to ask you is my concern is the huge secrecy about everything that's happening with this administration.
		And words like collateral rural damage and sort of mincing over sort of things that are happening.
		I think perhaps the Malaise in your students is they're cynical and they're giving up because it's like, well, they don't tell us anything, so what's the point?
		Because we've got these BSCs around here, which is, as you know, a bioweapon.
		We've got West Nile, which is a bioweapon.
		I mean, why would it start in Queens?
		Because it leaked from the island.
		And I think the rush to Iraq is to cover up the scandals, the scandals of the corporation and the fixed election and blah, blah, blah.
		I mean, we're talking about human lives that will be lost, ours and others.
		We have to stop saying collateral damage.
		We have to stop saying, oh, well, a few mistakes in the lab.
		Show us those mistakes.
		Because I think, you know, our population, the population of the world are grown-ups, and we've elected you to represent us.
		And we need information to make informed choices.
		And I think people are afraid in government and possibly in science to say, ooh, if we show them this, it'll really freak them out.
		Well, maybe it will, and maybe for a good reason, because maybe we are moving too fast.
		We've got 10 years on this planet.
		We've got 10 years.
		Don't you think perhaps science should be focusing on another way of giving us energy that isn't going to be destroying our future for our children?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, we'll end it there.
		That's a good point.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		You have a lot of interesting things, right?
		Let me try to address some of these questions that were raised.
		I think the solution to this cynicism, the solution to this secrecy, this solution to the problem is more democracy.
		Now, democracy is not something you can get from a candy machine.
		Democracy is something you have to work for.
		And that's where the internet, that's where the ballot box, that's where it comes in.
		People have to have their say in what's dearest to them.
		And I think that with regards to the situation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's got to be an informed say, though.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		It's got to be an informed say.
		And unfortunately, a lot of people are cynical and kind of drop out.
		And again, you know, they saw World War II and the Cold War, where a lot of stuff did happen in secrecy.
		A lot of stuff was covered up.
		You know, the Air Force itself admits that this whole Roswell thing, they had a hand in covering up a lot of that stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		So there's a certain cynicism that we don't believe the government anymore when the government itself says that, yes, they would regularly plant stories to misguide public opinion.
unidentified		Sure.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		However, I think that we're now dealing with fire when it comes to biotechnology with tremendous potential and promise, but it's more powerful than the bomb.
		How do you recall a germ once it's out of a test tube?
		You can't recall it like you can recall a Ford, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't.
		You don't recall it.
		Hold on, Doctor.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		One more segment to go.
		I'm Art Bell from the High Desert with Dr. Michio Kaku, one of our greatest theoretical physicists.
		Stay right where you are.
		This is Coast.
unidentified		Every rings like a bell through the night.
		Wouldn't you love the lover?
		Fix through the sky like a bird is riding.
		Who will be the lover?
		Why you let you never take one?
		Can you run away?
		Would you say that she promised you ever?
		Will you ever win?
		Jesus, I forget all of the time.
		The times have come Here but now they're gone Seasons don't feel the reaper Nor do the
		wind, the sun or the rain We can be like they are Come on baby Don't feel the reaper Baby take my hand Don't feel the reaper We'll be able to fly Don't feel the reaper Baby I'm your man La la la la la la To recharge bell in the Kingdom of Nye.
		From west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with our bell on the Premier Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the truth, just one little vial.
		Just one little vial, and drop one little vial or open the top, and that's it.
		Captain Tripps.
		Ted in Toledo, Ohio, sent me a relevant fast blast.
		Short and simple.
		I like them that way.
		He simply says, Art, you don't recall a germ.
		The germ recalls you.
		All right, once again, here is Dr. Michio Kaku.
		And that was a pretty interesting little fast blast.
		don't recall a germ the germ recalls you uh...
		and i just uh...
		notice that uh...
		somehow uh...
		some way i guess i think was a good Isn't that interesting?
		So we've lost Dr. Kaku, and I've got to go get him back.
		I can do that live on the air.
		No problem.
		Actually, what it did was it dumped all lines.
		Isn't that interesting?
		Sometimes I wonder.
		I really wonder, frankly, about the phone system here and why they do that.
		In other words, everybody who was waiting on the line is now gone.
		So let's see if we can get Dr. Kaku back.
		Dr. Kaku, are you there?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Right, I'm right here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, good.
		What happened is something came along and actually dumped every single call on my line.
		I've got a lot of lines here, and it just came along and cut off every single call.
		Some sort of weird phone company reset.
		And speaking of resets, again, Ted in Toledo, Ohio, you didn't hear it probably, said you don't recall a germ.
		The germ recalls you.
		That would be roughly putting it.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's a frightening thought.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
		All right.
		Lots of people would like to speak with you.
		Anything else as a follow-up on that particular subject?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think we have more than 10 years, but I think the listener is very much worried about the fact that the atmosphere does seem to be collapsing at a rate that who would have thought possible five, ten years ago.
		Every glacier on the Earth is receding.
		Huge chunks of the South Pole, the size of Delaware, are breaking off.
		The North Pole has a 50% reduction in the thickness of the polar ice over the North Pole.
		And the snows of Kilimanjaro aren't going to be there anymore for the next generation of Hemingway readers because of the recession of all the glaciers and the crazy weather that we're getting, which is going to be exacerbated by, I think, global warming.
		So I think this is a wake-up call to those people who think that it's just nothing but science fiction.
		I think that really is something going on.
		But I think the cure to it is not cynicism.
		The cure to it is more democracy.
		People have to become more actively engaged with the internet and politics and who's getting elected on which ticket.
		People have to take destiny in their own hands.
		As I said, we're witnessing the crucial juncture.
		We're headed for a Type 1 civilization.
		But the transition between Type 0 to Type 1 is the most dangerous of all transitions, and we're entering it now.
		So we humans are privileged, privileged to be alive to see this transition happen.
		But in outer space, it probably failed to happen on many occasions.
		And that's one reason why some scientists believe that there's no one out there in our quadrant of the galaxy, perhaps, because they didn't make the transition between type 0 to type 1.
		Their atmospheres have been irradiated, or their atmospheres are too hot to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, in the interest of full disclosure, which is what that young lady was talking about, or at least more disclosure, to be honest, the odds of making it to type 1 from type 0, you mentioned we're entering that period, that custom.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Very dangerous period.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Very exciting period, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exciting and dangerous.
		Yes, exciting and dangerous.
		But you once told me the odds of making it, and they weren't real good.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		They weren't real good, right?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have they improved?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it's gotten worse the last time I talked to you.
		I mean, who would have thought that just within the last few years we would see this erratic weather with the thinning of the ice caps and the gradual breakup of chunks of the outer regions of the South Pole and mosquitoes entering our backyards carrying diseases that we've never even had names for before.
		Who would have thought?
		And it's happening right before our eyes.
		Accelerating, in fact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Son of a gun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, so then the odds, in the interest of disclosure here, are not better, but worse.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think they've worsened in the sense that we are seeing erratic swings in the weather.
		All of a sudden, we have once in a hundred year floods, once in a hundred year droughts.
		Everything is now once in a hundred year.
		Once in a hundred year forest fires.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, hey, what are the odds?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And all of them are happening at the same time.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		All these once in a hundred year things are happening at the same time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there's a message here.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		There's a message there, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on there with Dr. Kaku.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		Great show, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Yes, Dr. Kaku, I have two brief questions.
		Could you give a follow-up on the bubble theory of the tabletop bubble, what's the word I'm looking for?
		Fusion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		The bubble fusion story that was in the news recently.
		Anything else?
unidentified		Yes, I have a second question after that, sir.
unidentified		The second question is, if you have a theory of everything, how do you define what everything is first to know what you're looking for?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's interesting.
		All right, well, the bubble thing, first, you remember the tabletop thermal luminescence.
		That's right, yes.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, now, first of all, it was Nazi scientists who first investigated propellers of their submarines and ships, and they found that these Nazi propellers were giving off bubbles that luminesced.
		And they were caused by the collapsing, very even spherical collapse of gases that heated them up to about 7,000, 10,000 degrees, which is about the surface of the sun, in fact, and caused them to spark.
		You can actually see these things in the ocean.
		Now, nothing came of it because there was no weapon you could devise out of it.
		But scientists now are trying to collapse these bubbles, not just have the surface of the sun temperatures, like 10,000 degrees, but the interior of the sun, where we're talking about tens of millions of degrees, where fusion takes place.
		And fusion is the secret of the stars.
		It is the way in which Einstein's E equals mc squared is unleashed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, this is the same thing.
		I've taken several cruises, and at night you can go back to the back of the cruise boat and look down, and there's this green luminescent trail behind the ship, you know, with these great big props.
		And so that's exactly what that is, right?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I've never seen it, but again, Nazi doctors called it like twinkling stars, tiny little stars, where these little bubbles would collapse and heat up the gas inside the bubble to the surface of the sun, causing it to luminesce, just like, you know, things luminesce in a fireplace, right?
		And you can duplicate this in a laboratory with very purified chemicals, very purified chemicals, heat them up and cause these bubbles to form.
		And sure enough, you can get enormous temperatures to be created.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has there been any progression in this technology?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, what you want to do is find out whether or not neutrons come out.
		Now, it's a little bit dangerous, but if neutrons start to come out of this reaction, it is nuclear.
		It's not a physical or chemical reaction anymore.
		It's a nuclear reaction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are we sure yet?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		No.
		Some people have claimed that they seem to see some...
		Some people claim that, yeah, they seem to see some neutrons.
		However, there's a lot of background neutrons as well.
		You know, neutrons come out of radioactive byproducts in the ground or in the atmosphere.
		So we've got to be careful about this.
		But it is a dark horse, but it's a very interesting one because the physics of it are well documented going back, like I say, going back to before World War II.
		And many physicists have claimed that if you can get a spherical collapse, an even spherical collapse of a bubble, you can reach temperatures that are nuclear.
		You know, we're talking tens to hundreds of millions of degrees.
		Now, we haven't reached that yet, but there are claims that we've reached temperatures where we get some neutrons to come out.
		Now, if you get a really hefty chain of reaction, if you get a really hefty nuclear reaction going, you'll create enough neutrons to kill yourself.
		So you have to be careful, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that may be the person who discovers this may not have a long shelf life.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		You have to be very careful.
		The end product of fusion is neutrons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		His second question involved the theory of everything, and he's essentially asking, how do we pursue that which we don't fully understand?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's a valid question.
		We have four fundamental forces.
		Some people have looked for a fifth, like maybe psychic power ESP or mind reading or whatever.
		We have four established forces.
		First is gravity, which holds the solar system together.
		Second is the electromagnetic force, which lights up the cities, creates laser beams and radar and microwaves.
		Then the next two are the weak and the strong nuclear force, the force of radioactive decay, the force that lights up our sun and the stars.
		Now, these are four fundamental forces don't like each other.
		They have different physics, different mathematics, different physical principles.
		Most of them are described by the quantum theory.
		But gravity is described by relativity.
		So we have these two gigantic formalisms, the relativity of Einstein and the quantum theory of the nuclear force.
		And these two frameworks summarize all physical knowledge.
		Now, some of your listeners may find this very hard to believe, but all physical knowledge at a fundamental level can be summarized by two frameworks.
		Relativity of Einstein, or the theory of the very big, and the theory of the very small, which is the quantum theory.
		If you could marry those two things together, you would be heralded as the greatest scientist of all time.
		There's a Nobel Prize out there for somebody who can meld together Einstein's theory of relativity with the quantum theory.
		Now, the leading candidate is string theory.
		Now, it doesn't mean it's right.
		However, it's the only game in town.
		It's the only theory which has survived every single mathematical challenge.
		Nobody can find any inconsistency with string theory.
		All other theories can be shown rather simply to be mathematically inconsistent.
		Now, that doesn't mean it's correct, but it is the leading candidate for a theory of everything.
		My job is to get it down to one inch.
		Like E equals M T squared is half an inch, and that will unlock the secret of the stars.
		We want an equation like E equals M T squared that will unlock the secret of existence.
		The secret of reality itself.
		Reading, quote, the mind of God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if we'll get to that first.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or Doug in Vancouver, BC Canada asks, Dr. Kaku, could you calculate or give us your thoughts on the odds for humanity to survive 20 years without a Frankengerm escaping and virtually taking out most of the human race?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that the real danger of the doomsday germ coming out of the laboratory is still farther down the line.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		For example, if there is airborne AIDS or airborne Ebola, that could do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you bet.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That could wipe out humanity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's asking about the odds in 20 years.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		However, in 20 years' time, I don't see any mad scientists creating airborne AIDS or airborne Ebola.
		Now, AIDS is a very simple virus.
		It's only nine genes.
		It's actually quite simple.
		Nine genes.
		Our body consists of about 30,000 genes.
		But those nine genes mutate roughly a million times faster than we do.
		So therefore, AIDS is a moving target.
		It's very hard to narrow down.
		As soon as you think you got it and cured it, it mutates to another form.
		So to inject the gene for it being airborne, no one can do that yet.
		Thank God.
		But the weaponization, the weaponization of common germs like smallpox and making smallpox airborne, for example, that in principle could be done.
		And not, I don't think, within a 10, 20 year timeframe.
		But yeah, it's a possibility that some devious soul may want to, in his or her black heart, have designed to create airborne smallpox or airborne AIDS or airborne.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, honey, you should mention airborne smallpox because when I see news headlines saying that they are creating smallpox vaccine for all the politicians and government workers and maybe the military, you know, gee, I ask myself, well, I wonder why they're doing that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do they know?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, it's something frightening to think about.
		We thought that Russia and America had the only stockpiles of smallpox.
		However, you don't know for sure.
		We now know the Russians, in fact, were experimenting with mutant forms of smallpox.
		They've pretty much owned up to that now.
		So we now know that there are probably mutant varieties out there.
		There was an outbreak in Russia, in northern Russia, and at first they said it was some kind of germ of some sort, some kind of silly thing.
		But then it turned out to be a mutant form of germs that they were playing with.
		So, yeah, it's conceivable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then we should be comforted by the fact that all of these Russian stockpiles are so safe.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's the other thing.
		With the Russian stockpile eroding with time, with border guards that look the other way, we can't control heroin from coming into the United States.
		Good point.
		What possibility do we have of controlling proliferated nuclear materials or killer germs, designer germs, that may come in a suitcase?
		It's something to think about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Buster of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Caku.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
		This is Tawasi in Eugene, Oregon.
		Yes.
		I too want to go and throw tea in the sea because of the obfuscation and all that.
		But my question is, do you see us using love to cross those dimensions and really sort of pass over the gap that we need to cross to get to the next, what is it, type one civilization?
		Because I really see so much hate in the world, especially, you know, I mean, the Middle East.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, as he's got a a very good question uh in a way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's not exactly a straight-on scientific question, but uh his point about so much hate versus what it might take to make the transition, Professor.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think, yes, it is going to take a lot of love and a lot of luck.
		Luck doesn't sound very scientific, but I think out there in outer space, there are probably many civilizations which didn't make it, you know, dying type zero civilizations that didn't make the transition.
		So I think we're going to have to have a lot of love and a lot of luck, okay?
		But also, I think in some sense, history is on our side, in the sense that you see the trend toward type one happening every time you open the newspaper.
		Every time I open the newspaper, I hear stories about the internet.
		I hear stories about the European Union, where countries that have hated each other for the last thousand years are now getting together to compete in the world marketplace.
		I hear stories about Hollywood movies going around the world, you know, altering local cultures.
		And I see the beginnings of Type 1 everywhere.
		However, as was pointed out, we have all the challenges that still face us.
		Pollution on a global scale in the form of global warming and nuclear weapons.
		Those are the only two things that I can see that can halt the march to Type 1, is weapons and pollution.
		And I think that we are entering that very crucial period where it is going to take a lot of love.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's like a garden, Professor.
		My wife gardens as so many people do, and some years you see the beginnings of wonderful green things that are going to become vegetables and herbs and all the things my wife grows.
		And occasionally, summer arrives suddenly in the desert and it goes to 117 degrees and it's all gone in a flash.
		Or there's a windstorm of 180 to 100 miles an hour and it's all gone, wiped clean.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the same thing applies for intelligence.
		I think when we look for meaning in the universe, we have to realize that life is extremely precious.
		When we see how easy it is for life to be extinguished, and when we look in outer space and we see how vast the universe is, some people think that it makes us feel small and insignificant.
		I feel the opposite.
		I feel that looking into outer space, looking at things being so easily eradicated on the planet Earth, I see how precious life is and how precious, intelligent life is.
		I mean, sitting on our shoulder is perhaps the most complex object created by nature out to four light years of the planet Earth, out to the nearest star.
		Believe it or not, what sits on our shoulder is nature's greatest creation, the human mind, consciousness, perhaps the most complex object out to the nearest star four light years from here.
		And I think that's a precious gift.
		I think that for those people who want to search for meaning in life, instead of feeling small looking at the cosmos and the wonderment of it all, I think we should be empowered.
		We should be thrilled, realizing the fact that we are endowed with consciousness, perhaps the most precious commodity in our quadrant of the galaxy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And perhaps the most powerful someday we'll find out.
		We're so short on time.
		Professor, mkaku.org, your website, we've got a link.
		I'm sure you're getting plenty of traffic.
		In fact, it all stalled down a little while ago, so you are getting plenty of traffic.
		If you were to recommend the first book, as somebody listens to you tonight, you've written so many, that people should read, the number one book that you've written that people should read.
		What would you say pick up first?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, pick up hyperspace first, just to get the romance of higher dimensions and universes and just see how wondrous the so-called mind of God that Einstein talked about, this hyperspace that we've been talking about.
		And then visions.
		If you want to find out about germs and you want to find out about genetic engineering and robots and all the stuff you see in science fiction movies, except you want to have a scientific basis for it, you can follow it up with visions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Professor Kaku, as always, it's been a totally fascinating night, and I want to thank you for being here.
		And until next time.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, my pleasure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, sir.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It really always is a pleasure to speak with one of the greatest minds that we can bring to you, and that's Dr. Michio Kaku.
		Tomorrow night, Dr. Evelyn Paglini, who's a real witch, will be here.
		She's going to be talking about something I've been dying to talk about for a very long time, and that's Mir Magic from the High Desert.
		I'm Art Bell.

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