Dr. Michio Kaku joins Art Bell to explore Princeton’s 9/11-linked "computer eggs" study, debunking mass consciousness claims while confirming quantum non-locality’s limits—no telepathic messages possible. Kaku dismisses Iraq’s nuclear threat, citing failed infrastructure (e.g., Osirak reactor) and unstable chemical/biological weapons, but warns of mutant smallpox risks. The conversation pivots to dark energy’s accelerating cosmic expansion, parallel universes, and humanity’s "Type 0" status—too primitive for advanced civilizations’ notice. Kaku’s canceled $5B fusion experiment and Nazi-era gas bubble research highlight science’s secrecy struggles, yet he insists transparency is critical to prevent misuse of biotech or physics breakthroughs like wormhole creation. Ultimately, the episode underscores how rare intelligent life is in a universe hurtling toward isolation, urging humanity to prioritize scientific stewardship over conspiracy theories. [Automatically generated summary]
Hi Desert, and the great American Southwest Media World, good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the cosmos.
I'm Mark Bell and this is post-post AM and what a program I've got for you tonight.
in the first hour, I've got some genuine, serious mysteries for you.
And maybe...
My guest tonight is going to be Dr. Michio Tatu from New York City University, who's one of our nation's greatest physics type persons.
He's a physicist and a theoretical physicist at that, and maybe he can answer some of my questions.
Maybe you can.
I don't know.
This is going to be a wild night.
There's a lot of wild stuff going on, and it's really hard to know where to begin, I guess.
The big news this hour, CDC in Atlanta confirming that West Nile virus can in fact be spread through organ transplants.
So they've done the testing.
And five cases of people infected with West Nile who got blood transfusions.
The CDC is now saying, yep, that's how.
Raising the specter of war, President Bush told skeptical world leaders Thursday to confront, quote, the grave and gathering danger, end quote, of Saddam, Hussein, and Iraq war stand aside as the U.S. acts.
Hesitant allies asked him not to go alone.
From the U.N.'s cavernous main hall, filled with wary friends and one bitter foe in Iraq's ambassador, Bush said the body must rid the world of Saddam's biological, chemical, and nuclear arsenals or risk millions of lives in a reckless gamble.
Now, that would seem to be enough for me.
It's been enough for me right along.
If you have somebody who is designing things to kill millions of people and you have no question in your mind whatsoever that he will use it against us as in the U.S. or our interests or Israel or all of the above, that means we have somebody who is a known killer who wants to kill us.
Now, as with what happened September 11th, a year and a day ago, we should go kill them.
Now, I'm a libertarian by nature, pretty much.
But I'm also a big believer in self-defense, the right to bear arms, blah, blah, blah.
We could go on and on, right?
If somebody wants to kill you, you'd be better off killing them first.
If that is their avowed intention, and they have gathered the means with which to do it, and they've demonstrated, as he has by gassing his own people, that he'd be perfectly willing to do it, then he'll do it to us.
And we have to do it to him first.
That's how I look at things.
I know it may seem simplistic.
Now, boy, I have some really, really first-class mysteries for you.
And again, I don't know where to begin.
How much coincidence do you believe in?
How much coincidence do you believe in?
Well, you may recall that Princeton University is doing a big study on the effects of mass concentration and consciousness.
And they're doing it with computers, and they've got what they call these eggs.
They're these computers at various points around the world that collect, they're sitting there spitting out random numbers, and they collect the data on the computer's performance.
And if all of a sudden the numbers become non-random, then that information is shipped back to Princeton where it's all correlated.
And they try and correlate what they get, these machines being driven suddenly to this non-randomness by world events.
I mean, for example, we have the chart up on my website of the attack on the 11th a year and a day ago, and it just went off the chart.
Now, as you know, I've done about 10 experiments in this field, having almost actually complete success in things like the creation of rain.
Yeah, we tampered with the weather.
I'm not sure how bright that was in reflection, but we did.
And I don't do that anymore because I'm cautious, because I think it's real.
And I think we just had another really gigantic demonstration of this effect in play of mass consciousness affecting randomness.
And I want to talk to you about it.
Now, listen to me very carefully.
I'm going to lead you down a little road here.
This may totally not relate to what I'm about to lay in front of you, but when the president attended the memorial for those who died in the flight that crashed in Pennsylvania, it was a calm day.
And exactly at 8.48, which is when that plane crashed, on the site, the president, everybody else, noticed the wind suddenly came out of nowhere.
And in fact, there were even these little dust devils and really weird winds suddenly.
Peter Jennings and others were commenting on how weird it was that this wind came up exactly at this time, 848.
And I don't know what that means.
I'll let you rummage through that one.
But here's a couple of items that I think really ought to set you back on your heels.
Item number one.
In an ironic twist, the September Standard and Poor's 500 Futures, a futures contract, now that's what it's going to be, right?
Futures, closed on Tuesday, that was the day before 9-11.
Closed, the 500 futures contract closed Tuesday at 911.00911, a day before the one anniversary of the terrorist attacks.
Now, it's the futures.
Okay, I said, okay.
And then this dropped on me.
Now, when we're talking about mass concentration of millions of you out there, when I have requested it in the past, again, we're trying to recreate this effect, this whatever in God's name, and that's proper usage there, this is, this power.
Now comes the New York Lottery.
Now, on the New York Lottery, you may have seen it on CNN.
It's a machine that randomly, it's the pick three.
You know, there's usually millions of dollars out there, whatever.
A lot of money, right?
Pick three, and if you pick three, the three numbers, these little ping pong balls, they've got all these millions of ping pong balls bouncing around inside a machine.
And yesterday, it was shown on CNN all day long, so I'm sure you saw it.
Yesterday, that machine spit 911 in New York State.
That would be the New York State.
Let me read you the story of Albany AP.
On the first anniversary of the terrorist attacks, a date known as 911, the evening numbers drawn in the New York lottery were 911.
A Carolyn Haitman, a lottery spokeswoman, said, quote, the numbers were picked in the standard random fashion using all the same protocols, end quote.
Listen carefully to that.
The numbers were picked in the standard random fashion using all the same protocols.
Lottery officials won't know until, well, I guess it was this morning, how many people played the numbers for the total payout, she said.
For the evening numbers game, the New York lottery selects from balls numbered 0 to 9 circulating in a machine at the lottery office.
Three levers are pressed, and three balls are randomly brought up into tubes and then displayed.
Now, exactly how much coincidence are you prepared to accept?
Or does the more likely answer to you, as it does to me, seem to be that we now just had another, thank goodness I didn't have to initiate it, incredible demonstration of a power not yet understood, but unmistakably there.
The power of hundreds, thousands, millions of minds to control the randomness, the normal randomness of a machine.
That's what just happened.
Unless you're willing to believe in much more coincidence than I am, we just had a magnificent demonstration of what millions of minds together did.
So I think that's pretty powerful stuff, and I just submit it for your consideration.
Now I've got a question that I'm going to be asking Dr. Kaku, and you might suppose there are easy answers for what I'm going to talk to you about right now, but I don't have them.
Now, as you know, I'm a ham radio operator.
I love ham radio.
Oh, it's my hobby.
I just love it.
I love all radio, including this and ham radio and everything, right?
So when I'm not on here, I'm taking a busman's holiday on short wave whenever I'm able.
And toward that end, since it's my passion, I did a fairly crazy thing here recently.
My back is in no condition for it, so I got my contractor, and with the help of Bonnie Crystal, who, by the way, is going to be here next week as a guest.
She's a caver, if you recall.
Good friend.
I designed an antenna, a gigantic.
People don't generally construct this kind of antenna.
Now, I've got photographs of this antenna on my website, and I've got a reason why I'm telling you about this right now that'll kind of blow your mind.
It's the second photograph down.
Oh, the top one is Art's new power amp.
Sitting in the living room.
I haven't started using it yet, but I'm looking forward to it.
It was a great find the other day.
Anyway, the second item down is Art's 1,000-foot loop antenna.
What I've done is the second item down, and actually you should look at the third picture.
The first one represents the antenna in its entirety, and then the next one down is a slightly closer shot done just before sunset so I could catch as much of the antenna as I was able.
You can click on the picture to enlarge it.
In fact, I certainly recommend you do so.
And you will see with pretty good detail this incredible antenna.
And what I did was I can see, you know, I, as I said, these little cherubs next door would run their three-wheeled dust-creating machines by our house.
And of course, my wife has asthma.
Dust not good.
So I fenced off the Land I own next door, next to my house now, another acre and a quarter, so it's two and a half acres, right?
And now the little cherubs can't go by creating dust.
But then I looked at that land, I said, by God, there would be a good place to put an antenna.
So I put this, my contractor came out and put up seven 60-foot poles, big poles, they're two-inch steel poles, and I already have a 100-foot tower at my house.
You'll see that.
So there's a total of eight support points, the highest point being 100 feet at the tower.
And then this wire, this great loop.
A loop is nothing but one wire that goes all the way around and meets itself.
You can think of it that way.
It goes all the way around and meets itself.
And it's fed with what's called 450 ohm twin lead.
Now, stick with me here, folks.
I know it's a little technical, but stick with me because it's worth it.
There's an insulator at each one of these poles so that the wire never touches the steel poles or comes anywhere near ground.
That's not good for an antenna.
It's just a wire, but it's up in the air, varying from 100 feet at the highest to a minimum of 60 feet.
And it goes all the way around both properties now together, comprising a long wire, a loop antenna, 1,000 feet long.
Now, as you might imagine, for short wave, this antenna is mind-boggling.
It's incredible.
But there's something about it that you should know, and I want to explain to you, and I do not have an explanation for this.
Maybe Dr. Kaku next hour might.
But remember, this is just a wire.
So that you know, it's a copper wire.
It's number 10.
That's a pretty big wire.
And it's coated so that when you put up such a big, gigantic wire, I mean, this is out in the experimental area, it's so big.
When you put up that much wire, it's kind of a good thing to put up coated wire.
And I've got coated plastic UV resistant wire up there, coating on the wire, plastic, so that you don't get, you know, when the wind blows on such a big wire, you could get incredible voltages.
You know, you could get voltages that would be unsafe, would draw a big blue arc.
That's from the wind.
But I have this problem.
And here it is.
I noticed with no wind blowing outside, it shouldn't affect it anyway, but with no wind whatsoever blowing outside, I had the antenna in one hand and I touched the chassis or ground with the other hand, and I got a pretty damn good shock.
So I said, whoa, you know, where's this coming from?
There's no wind out there.
I have this wire up there between 100 feet at the highest and 60 at the lowest going 1,000 feet around, just in the air, insulated perfectly, and comes in with what's called twin lead for 150 ohm.
And there's this big voltage on there.
Well, that's not possible.
Where in the hell is the voltage coming from?
There's enough voltage that when I touch the connector to ground from the antenna, I get a nice blue spark.
So I thought, what the hell?
What could do this?
And tonight, about a half hour before airtime, now, of course, I've got an antenna tuner for you hands out there, and you know, the 4-to-1 ball will protect anything further on from the voltage, but it's there.
And tonight, just before I came on the air, I went out and got a volt meter, a good one, and I brought it in here, and I put it between one of the antenna legs and a ground.
And I read between 349 and 350 volts.
I showed it to my wife.
I said, you're not going to believe this.
That's a lot of voltage.
Now, I don't think it's much current.
I'm sure it's not much current at all, or I would have been, probably would have had a heart attack and be dead right now.
It's not much current.
It must be infinitesimal amount of current, I think.
But where in the hell is that voltage coming from?
Where?
It's coming out of the air.
Now, in order to function and not ultimately hurt something, I'm going to have to put in, for those of you that know something about all this, bleeder resistors.
I'm probably going to have to get about 10 megaohms of resistors on each side of the lead-in and go to ground right where it comes into the house to bleed this voltage off to ground.
I've already put the ground rods in to do it, but in the meantime, I mean, it's just an annoyance.
But when you think about it real hard, where the hell is this voltage coming from?
It's coming, well, I don't know where it's coming from.
Now, you may recall Tesla toyed with things in this area.
And it hit me like thunder.
How could I have a constant voltage on this line when there's not wind out there?
And besides, it's coated line.
So even if there was, it wouldn't generate anything to speak of that way anyway.
Is there some relationship to the Earth's magnetic field?
Is there something about the rotation of the Earth itself and a wire as big as I've got that would generate this voltage?
Would this explain something in physics that otherwise doesn't seem explicable at all to me?
So I thought I would throw that out to you.
This is a very large, very unusual antenna, and I'm getting a very unusual side effect from that much wire up in the air.
And I just thought that I'd kind of run by some of you out there and See what you think.
Now, on one leg, it does run adjacent power lines.
You might say it's coming in that way, but it's really too far away, way too far away, you know, both in height and distance from the power lines to be collecting that kind of voltage.
Like she did one thousand times before Don't you love her faith?
What you say Don't you love her As she's walking out the door All your love All your love All your love All your love All your love is for A single lonely song Of a deep blue
dream Seven horses sing To be on the mark To rechart bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
Or use the Wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
And in New York, three little balls go plop, plop, plop on 9-11.
And they plop away 911.
What are the odds?
How much coincidence are you willing to believe in?
Well, all right, here's one more thing.
I've just got to get on.
It's too important.
From BBC News.
New moon found around Earth.
Now, an amateur astronomer may have found another moon of the Earth.
Experts say it may only have just arrived.
We might have a new moon.
We might have a new moon.
Much uncertainty surrounds the mysterious object designated JS and John 002 Easy 02.
It could be a passing chunk of rock captured by the Earth's gravity or maybe a discarded rocket causing casing rather coming back to our region of space and now orbiting Earth.
It was discovered by Bill Young, that's YEUNG, from his observatory in Arizona and reported as a passing near-Earth object.
It was soon realized, however, that far from passing us, it was in a 50-day orbit around the Earth.
So we either have a big piece of space junk up there that they couldn't somehow account for, or we have acquired a new moon for Earth.
And I thought that would be probably worth passing along to you if you haven't heard yet.
Just think with the wire that you have, you know, in the past few years, projects such as HAARP and Gwen, other projects that generate various frequencies and levels of energy,
in addition to all the background radiation, it's quite possible that your wire there is being bombarded by, let's say, energy from organized or non-organized projects.
It was the government, sir, and they confiscated everything he wrote.
unidentified
Right.
And how do we know that that technology, and as I understand it, that Tesla was years ahead of anybody else, that just from the stuff that was made public, how do we know that some of this stuff hasn't been used as a military weapon to maybe possibly be a factor in these times we live in?
The answer is, sir, we don't know, and the odds are that they are doing it.
So your suggestion is one worth considering.
i'm looking at many things as possible that a wire in the atmosphere above ground on an earth that is turning that there would be a geomagnetic effect that would create That it's some sort of product of rotation in the Earth's magnetic field.
That's one possibility.
Another, of course, is that there is, in fact, something being absorbed by the antenna that's being thrown at it.
I'm willing to certainly.
That's a pretty good suggestion, sir.
So I'll put that in the pot of things that it might be.
It was another way to get a web address in there, a URL, and I can't allow that on the air.
And the reason that we don't do that is because we've been had in the past.
You know, somebody gives out a web address.
It sounds innocuous enough, and then everybody rushes to their computer.
And, you know, it's triple X material or something like that.
So we don't put on anything until it's screened or comes from a known commodity like a guest that we've vetted, something like that.
Okay?
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Going once.
Going twice.
Gone.
A wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hi.
Hi, Art.
This is Dr. Ed Colling from Montachapi.
I run a newspaper that you may see, a magazine.
I won't give the name of it, but I'm also a PhD electrical engineer, and I've been listening to the interesting suggested answers to your antenna problem.
And it's actually quite a simple problem, but it's a very fascinating and fundamental part of our atmosphere.
And that is that there actually is a, if you could draw a little picture in front of you, the Earth is negative with respect to the ionosphere.
Right, gotcha.
And the total voltage difference between that Earth and the ionosphere is 300,000 to 400,000 volts.
So if you were going to use that big loop antenna, which I've done in the past too with smaller loop antennas, what you need to do is at least have some sort of large-scale blocking capacity.
But I mean, while this is a gigantic antenna, I grant you, it's certainly not big by the standards of somebody who wanted to pursue this apparent technology and use it for power.
I mean mine would be infinitesimally small as is the current that he talked about but when you begin to really Suppose it were 10,000, 20, 30, 100,000 feet, 200,000 feet.
In other words, at some point, you begin to get a usable amount of current and voltage.
You begin to get an astronomical amount of voltage, and certainly perhaps a usable amount of current.
And there have been patents submitted before to go up like 10,000 feet with a grid, like the previous gentleman.
Point out, though, you have a drop in overall power because of the length of the wire.
But here's what I wanted to add to the conversation: is that in essence we're talking about a capacitor here between the Earth's field and the upper atmosphere.
So now, we have done a lot of study with this as far as building shielded devices because of the belief that there's an increase of electromagnetic radiation from all the TV shows and all this.
In other words, there's all this radio, there's all this television out there, and there's a kind of a collective soup swimming through the atmosphere of electromagnetic signals that we know as RF or radio frequency.
That's a pretty wild one, too, but also extremely interesting.
We discovered when we were there that they were working incredibly hard on all this.
I mean, we took a lot of the stuff out.
We know they were.
Right?
unidentified
I was just wondering if we might send another team of inspectors over there before we send over, you know, 20 or 30,000 troops because it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to attack too soon.
I think that if it does, if it is going on, and we really do need to know, then our president is going to have to go a little further in terms of explaining specifically.
And I know it's hard because it's Intel.
They've got Intel, right?
Intelligence, we hope, telling them what's going on in Iraq, you know, with the nuclear program, with the chemical and biological programs and all the rest of it.
Now, if there is intelligence indicating the threat is that serious, and you certainly would not imagine the president would be saying, we'll go it alone, by God, if we have to and go get him, unless he did have that kind of intel.
And if he does have that kind of intel, then to some degree, maybe not so much that it would hurt the value of the intelligence, he's going to have to make his case in front of the American people.
He's going to have to come to the American people and say a little bit of, here's what we know.
And if we're facing a threat, people want to kill us, who have the means to kill us, maybe even millions of us, then I don't know.
Seems to me we've got to get them first.
What the president wants to do, he's going to have to make his case to all of us.
I'm Art Bell.
Coming up, Dr. Michiu Kaku.
Don't touch that dial.
unidentified
Don't touch that dial.
Once upon a time, once when you were mine.
Once upon a time, once upon a time, once upon a time, once upon a time, one of the best things that I was given to you in your life.
Be it sight, sand, smell, or touch, there's something inside that we need so much.
The sight of a touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak roots deep in the ground.
The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
To lie the meadow and hear the grass sing, to have all these things in our memories home, and they use them to come to farm.
Yeah!
Call our bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
Dr. Michiel Kaku, one of our nation's leading theoretical physicists, co-founder of the string theory, is with us tonight.
He'll be up in a moment.
I've got something that I want to read you that's going to kick all this off.
I mean, you know, we're all, I certainly am anyway, and I'm sure most of you are, in search of the meaning of everything, right?
The meaning of everything, maybe in one short equation.
The meaning of everything.
I mean, the meaning of our existence, the meaning of what's all around us.
We're searching for meanings.
And here's a big clue in that trail.
This is from a very well-respected Science News.
It's the August 31st, 2002, Volume 162 edition, which I get.
And the name of the article is Lonely Universe.
And It says, runaway expansion will lead to dark times ahead.
Early in 1998, 1% of the universe got a jolt.
Two independent teams of researchers studying distant supernovas found evidence that the cosmos is doing more than merely expanding.
Doing more than merely expanding.
The teams discovered that it is expanding at an ever faster rate.
You might even say quickening, right?
Opposing the tug of gravity, there seems to be some mysterious force dubbed dark energy that stretches space-time and pushes galaxies apart.
Although the evidence is still being debated, scientists are beginning to explore the full consequences of living in a revved-up universe.
And as several cosmologists have come to realize, anti-gravity has a downside.
Listen very, very, very carefully now.
Because gravitational attraction was dominant when the universe was younger and objects were closer together, runaway, the word runaway expansion, didn't begin until about 5 billion years ago.
But to those who are superlatively far-sighted, this relatively new trait of the universe couldn't have more profound consequences.
And here they come.
That's the thought that came to Harvard cosmologist Avi Loeb one morning last year after being kept awake most of the night by his own personal reminders of the future, his one-month-old daughter.
He realized in a revved-up universe, galaxies eventually would recede from each other at faster than the speed of light.
Now, that's really important.
Listen very carefully.
Galaxies will begin to recede from each other at faster than the speed of light.
Although the laws of physics hold that nothing can move faster than light in any local region of the universe, two widely separated galaxies pushed apart by the expansion of space-time between them can have a rot of velocity that exceeds the local limit when that happens.
Listen to me now.
All possibility of communication between those galaxies or even visual contact between them dies.
At that point, light emitted by one of the galaxies will never catch up to the other.
Now, do you understand what this means?
Rather than seeing the opposite side, opposite galaxy vanish from sight immediately, an observer in one galaxy is going to see the light from the other grow gradually dimmer like a dying ember.
Ultimately, the remote galaxy will become so dim that not even the most sensitive telescope is going to be able to detect it.
In the end, evidence of all but the nearest galaxies will become forever inaccessible.
In other words, folks, we're going to begin moving apart from each other at faster than the speed of light, which means that all that you see in the night sky, everything that we see and have always regarded as permanent, is going to disappear.
And we're going to be all alone, not only to the naked eye, but to the telescopes as deep and as hard as they can look into space.
It's going to be gone because the light or the objects are going to be traveling faster than the light, trying to get back to us, our eyes, our retinas, and our telescopes.
It is a concept.
It's a kind of a dark concept when you think about it.
It's incredible, and it's a really good first question for Dr. Kaku coming right up.
Well, all right, Dr. Michio Kaku is an internationally recognized authority in theoretical physics and also the environment.
He holds the Henry Summet Professorship in Theoretical Physics at the City College and Graduate Center of the City University of New York.
His goal is to help complete Einstein's dream of a theory of everything, a single equation, perhaps no longer than one inch, which will unify all the fundamental forces in the universities lectured around the world, and his PhD-level textbooks are required reading at many of the top physics laboratories in the world.
He's written nine books.
His last two books, Hyperspace and Visions, became international bestsellers and have been widely translated into different languages.
He hosts a weekly hour-long radio program himself on science on several stations about the country.
His commentaries on science can be heard on 60 radio stations nationwide.
Dr. Kaku graduated from Harvard in 1968.
Soon will come out.
Number one in his physics class.
How about that?
Number one.
Received his Ph.D. from the University of California, Berkeley Radiation Lab in 1972.
Held a lecturership at Princeton in 1973.
Then joined the faculty at the City University of New York, where he's been a professor of theoretical physics for 25 years.
He's been a visiting professor at the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton and also New York University.
Published over 70 physics articles in physics journals, which include super string theory, supergravity, superhadronic physics, is it?
Yes, I believe.
He is co-founder of string field theory, wrote the first paper on informal supergravity, the breakdown of hypersymmetry at high temperature.
Well, you heard what I read, and it just, when I read it, I sat down, and just for a while, I couldn't think about anything Else.
Now, we've always thought that we could not exceed the speed of light.
I mean, that was supposed to be a law or something, right?
Right.
Only in this science news article, it says it's going to start to happen, and when it does, everything's going to slip-slide away until there's no night sky, no stars, no everything.
Well, the old theories were that there was a Big Bang and everything exploded outward and that velocities would be decreasing.
And the farthest object out we could see would be about 15 billion miles or so, somewhere in there.
And that would be the beginning of the Big Bang, the last rock out there somewhere, right?
15 billion years out, light years out.
And then there's a theory that the whole universe would come back upon itself, collapse into something smaller than a quark once again, and an underlating universe.
Yeah, like a rubber band theory.
And now all of a sudden, oh my God, the whole thing's up in smoke.
And this is really pretty weird.
I mean, everything's going to start going faster and faster until there is nothing.
In this new picture, we have all the pieces, all the numbers, the hard data now is coming in from satellites, from balloon experiments, all the data is fitting together.
If you calculate the total energy of the universe, the total energy of the universe, okay?
That means the energy of matter, which is positive.
That means the energy, the dark energy is also positive.
But gravitational energy is negative.
The energy of gravity is negative.
If you add the positive, that is you and me, the stars, the sun, the Milky Way, that's positive.
And you add gravity, which is negative energy, you add the two together, you get zero, or something extremely close to zero.
In other words, the universe is a free lunch.
It simply don't take that much to create universes out of nothingness, that is hyperspace.
The universe is a bubble floating in hyperspace.
It's vibrating.
It's just going according to string theory, membrane theory.
And so we now believe that the mind of God, that Einstein used to always talk about fondly, the mind of God is music, the music of strings and membranes, these universes rippling through hyperspace, music resonating through hyperspace.
Well, string theory would tell you where this bubble came from.
Now, the observational data seems to be pretty conclusive now.
The universe is in a runaway mode.
It's accelerating exponentially, that at some point in the future, the Milky Way galaxy will be the only galaxy, and it's going to be awfully cold out there.
Temperatures will reach near absolute zero.
But if you run the clock backwards now, if you run the clock backwards, that's where string theory comes in.
String theory, in principle, would tell you where that instant, that instant of the bubble came from.
And the latest developments seem to indicate that the universe was a quantum fluctuation, just a fluctuation in nothing, a fluctuation in hyperspace.
And that little tear, that little tear in nothingness created a bubble which expanded rapidly.
And it don't take much to create this tear because the total energy of the universe is zero.
Which means that it's like boiling water, that bubbles are forming all the time.
Now, this is, to me, a source of optimism, because if our universe is really in this runaway mode, and at some point in the far future we have the ability to create our own tear, our own little rip in a universe, then we may get a life raft, leave our universe, and go to another universe where it's a lot warmer and a lot more comfortable in our dying universe.
Well, the universe will get colder and the universe will get, as is pointed out in the article, more lonely as more and more galaxies fall off the edge of the universe.
Now, when I mean fall off the edge of the universe, I mean we're not going to be able to see them anymore because they are traveling away from us faster than the speed of light.
So if you're sitting on a carpet and people then begin to move objects on the carpet, it's the carpet that is actually wrinkling, expanding, stretching.
You, sitting there, don't feel anything.
You're just sitting there minding your own business, sitting on this carpet.
So when you see this galaxy, the galaxy is not really moving at all.
Somebody on that galaxy would say, I'm perfectly fine.
I'm stationary.
It's the empty space between the two that is expanding.
So when we talk about the Big Bang on television, you usually see this explosion.
Actually, the Big Bang was not big, and it was not a bang.
It was not big, because, of course, it was smaller than an atom.
And there was no bang because there was no air.
But also, there was no explosion because it was space itself that expanded.
The new picture emerging, okay, and this is a picture that all the science magazines are now finally realizing, is the multiverse.
And we no longer think of a universe.
We now believe that these inflationary universes are for free, they don't take much to create, and that tears in the fabric of hyperspace happen all the time, like boiling water.
And we have a multiverse, and in our universe, it's expanding quite rapidly.
She'll unhease you Watching every motion In my foolish love escape On this endless ocean Finally love has no shame Turning every time In juicy
secret face inside Watching in slow motion As you turn around and say Save my world away To rechart belt in the Kingdom of Nai, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your ATT operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with our bell on the Premier Radio Network.
Now that's, of course, unless we find a light raft in the form of another universe to more or less pick up sticks and move to.
I wonder.
I wonder if this other universe would be inhabited.
Whether what we'd be doing would be called an invasion, an alien invasion with us being the aliens.
Or could it be that some other universe right now that's already meeting this fate would take their lifeboat and one day suddenly arrive here?
I think we'll ask about that.
Well, if there's all these bubbles.
And there are all these universes and they will inevitably, in some of them, becoming, you know, start to get to this dangerous point where it's getting real lonely, and they learn how to make the hop, if the hop is indeed possible,
then shouldn't we imagine, Professor, that we might pop into a universe which, well, say, where we wouldn't be welcome, where there'd be, you know, it'd be relatively populated already and we wouldn't be welcome at all.
Or, conversely, shouldn't we be on the lookout for somebody else out there with a life raft headed our way?
First of all, we are talking about civilizations trillions now, trillions of years more advanced than us.
When you see the local TV stations talk about flying saucers from outer space, you're talking about a civilization maybe a few thousand years, maybe a million years at maximum, more advanced than us, right?
We see planets, we see stars, and we see galaxies.
However, there is something beyond galaxies now that is driving this runaway universe, and that's called dark energy.
Now, dark energy is the energy of the vacuum, the energy of nothing.
Even nothingness has energy.
It is the power of the continuum, as they say in Star Trek.
It is the power of the Q. Now, Nikolai Tesla talked about the energy of nothing.
Einstein talked about the energy of nothing, dark energy.
But no one got anywhere with it because we couldn't measure anything.
Emptiness seemed pretty empty to us.
That's where this new development in astronomy comes in.
What is driving the runaway universe?
What's pushing the galaxies apart?
What's creating this anti-gravity?
It is precisely dark energy.
So we now know that dark energy is perhaps 10 times more plentiful than dark matter, which in turn is 10 times more plentiful than you and me and ordinary matter.
So most of the universe is invisible.
Most of the universe is in a form of dark matter, matter that has gravity, but you can't see it.
It's invisible.
And dark energy, the energy of nothing, the energy that Tesla and Einstein talked about.
So any civilization, any civilization that powerful, that powerful that they can see their universe die, they can see the universe getting colder and colder, would, I think, have the ability to cook universes in an oven.
Now, Professor Alan Guth, he's the man who came up with this idea of the inflationary runaway universe.
So he says that if you could take a microwave oven and heat the contents to about 100 trillion trillion degrees, I think is the number he came up with.
And remember, a supernova is only one trillion or so degrees.
We're talking about 100 trillion trillion degrees.
Yeah, and again, if you have this, not type 3, but perhaps type 4 capability, you may have the ability to concentrate the energy of stars and the energy of galaxies, perhaps, in a crash program to leave the universe, concentrate this energy in one point, in a microwave omen, such that a ball will open up, a little sphere, and this sphere will be a stargate.
It will be a wormhole.
It's one end of the umbilical cord, which will look like a sphere.
And if you were to fall through it, you would go through the umbilical cord, perhaps to God knows where.
The biggest atom smasher on Earth, which is not finished yet, outside Geneva, Switzerland, the Large Hadron Collider, LHC, will be turned on in a few years.
And next year, the first gravity wave detector will be turned on in the United States, which will detect the presence of colliding black holes.
When black holes collide in outer space, they create shock waves.
These shock waves are gravity waves, waves of gravity, and they should be detected across the United States.
And so next year, we should turn it on.
It's funded by the National Science Foundation in Washington.
We should turn it on, and we should be able to detect vibrations from colliding black holes.
Ultimately, we want to detect vibrations from the Big Bang itself.
Now, that's going to be done in a 20-year timeframe.
NASA approved money now for three satellites to be sent in outer space in an orbit parallel to the Earth's orbit, three satellites, each one a gravity wave detector, which will pick up vibrations from the Big Bang itself.
We hope to get to within one trillionth of a second, I repeat, one trillionth of a second after Genesis with our gravity wave detectors.
And that's now within a 20-year timeframe, and NASA is now talking about blueprints for sending these three satellites up there in outer space.
So we're talking about serious bucks now, big bucks, not just the musings of theoretical physicists like myself, but big bucks going into devices which could perhaps pick up vibrations from black holes that collide, also vibrations from nearby universes.
There's a great deal of talk about locality, non-locality out there right now.
So I want to ask you a couple of pedestrian sort of questions here.
I've mentioned to you in previous programs these experiments that we ran with having millions of people concentrate on, for example, creating rain or somebody's health or concentrating on time.
And you remember I mentioned the Princeton experiments and the little computer eggs they had all over the world, reporting back to Princeton about spikes in what seemed to be these computers spitting out this random number of stuff, and then all of a sudden a non-randomness beginning to occur that just went, for example, off the charts on 9-11.
That would be millions of mines having an effect on something.
Now, I don't know how much coincidence as a scientist you're willing to buy into, but in New York State yesterday, when they did the pick three, there's this little machine that fires these ping-pong balls up into tubes that pick the number, the lucky number that holds millions of dollars for whoever picked it or whatever.
Yesterday, this little machine spit up three ping-pong balls that said 9-1-1 in New York State for the lottery.
Now, that seems like an unreasonable amount of coincidence to me.
And I guess I'm saying, isn't this another possible example of an effect on what is otherwise a random number generator by millions of human minds operating on a non-local basis?
Like you're thinking about Joe, and all of a sudden Joe calls you on the telephone.
And you say, oh, I'm psychic.
But 99% of the time, you're thinking about Sally and Joseph and Harry, and no one calls you on the phone.
But the one time that Joe calls you on the telephone, you are thinking about Joe, and you say, ah, I'm psychic.
Now, there's another way of looking at it, too.
There is something called non-locality.
Einstein hated this idea of non-locality.
Physics is based on the idea that if you jiggle an electron here in one place of the universe, on the other side of the universe, nothing is going to happen.
It turns out that non-locality, this is called the EPR experiment.
Some of your guests may have referred to that.
The Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen experiment has in fact been carried out.
It was first carried out in France, in fact, in the 60s.
Since then, it's been carried out many times.
And it does appear as if Einstein was wrong on this question.
The universe is actually non-local.
So that if you make a measurement in one quadrant of our galaxy, in some sense, you know information on the other side of the universe instantly, faster than the speed of light.
Indeed.
Now, this has been measured in the laboratory a number of times now.
So here's how the experiment works.
You get, let's say you have a small explosion take place, and out of this small explosion, laser beams come out.
One laser beam goes to the right, one laser beam goes to the left.
So you know that the sum of the two polarizations must be zero because it started off from one object with no polarization.
And if you measure the polarization of one light beam, let's say the polarization is up and down.
Well, if it's up, this means that on the other side of the universe, where the light beam has gone over many, many millions of years, it must be down.
Okay?
Because it's up on one side, it must be down on the other.
The sum must be zero.
Sure.
Well, you now know something about the universe faster than the speed of light, because you could have let those laser beams go on for years, millions of years.
And so if you measure it here, then of course on the other side of the universe, you know something.
Now, the Big Bang was an explosion.
Everything came from an explosion.
Actually, like I said before, it wasn't really an explosion.
It was the expansion of space.
But anyway, out of the Big Bang came many light beams, including us.
Right.
Therefore, if we make a measurement in our quadrant of the universe, in some sense, we know some information about the other side of the universe faster than the speed of light.
Now, some people have claimed that maybe this is telepathy.
Some people claim this is the subspace communicator on Star Trek when Captain Picard has to communicate with Starbase.
However, there is a catch, and there's always a catch to these things.
The catch is you cannot send Morse code this way.
If, for example, you know that light on this side of the universe is up, spinning up, you now know that on the other side of the universe is a counterpart where it's spinning down.
That doesn't mean you can send Morse code this way.
That doesn't mean you can send a message this way.
Well, I haven't seen these experiments, so I can't say.
I'm a scientist, and we tend to like to look at the data, the beef, the smoking gun, as they say.
And until I see the smoking gun, I can't really say.
However, there is a mechanical engineer at Princeton who claims that by thinking, by thinking, you can affect the motion of a small little steel ball bearings that fall down a cascade.
We discussed that in the first hour, and if anybody will have the answer to this, it would be you, Dr. Kaku, from the high desert.
I'm Art Bell, along with Dr. Michio Kaku, one of our nation's leading theoretical Physicists.
And through the night, we will discuss the great mysteries of life.
And that's what these are.
They're the great mysteries of our lives, right?
And oh my, they are great mysteries.
In the nighttime, we'll be back.
unidentified
We've been traveling far We've been traveling far Winding your way down a vehicle street.
Lighting your head and then on your feet.
We're another crazy day.
Drinking out away and forget about everything.
This very gather makes you feel so cold.
It's got so many people, but it's got no soul and it's taking too long.
I thought you were wrong when you thought it held everything He used to think that it was so easy He used to say that it was so easy You're trying to make it be happy.
How do we make it be happy?
You're crying.
You're crying.
Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nai.
One of our nation's greatest theoretical physicists, Dr. Michio Kaku, is my guest.
And it's going to be a very interesting night.
Already has been.
So stay planted right where you are.
We'll be right back.
Well, all right.
So let's finish this up.
So I've built this monster antenna, bearing in mind its great circle.
It's a loop.
And it's supported at the highest point 100 feet, 60 feet the rest of the way around, and 1,000 feet in circumference.
Now, it makes an unbelievable antenna.
There's not much information on the internet about loops this big, but I decided what the hell.
I can afford it.
Let's construct it and see what happens.
Well, what happened is it's the best antenna anybody's ever used, but a couple of anomalies.
I happened to be holding, I bring the feedline for the antenna is open wire feeder, 450 ohm open wire feeder, and I bring it all the way into the house.
And I noticed when I was holding on to one side of the antenna, and then I happened to touch ground, you know, chassis of one of the pieces of my equipment here, I got a hell of a shock.
Shock.
And I said, what?
And I thought immediately, well, static buildup.
Now bear in mind, this is number 10 wire, copper, coated with a really good ultraviolet protective cover so that in wind you don't get static buildup.
That's a real problem with antennas, long antennas.
I learned that long ago.
So it's not the wind.
In totally calm skies, not a cloud in the sky, no wind, there is, I measured it before airtime tonight, Professor, there's 349 to 350 volts consistently on that line.
I mean, you can take it and you can discharge it to ground and see a blue spark, and immediately there is still that consistent voltage there.
And it's obviously at a very low current, but it's consistently there.
You know, when you walk across a carpet and there's a spark that goes across from your fingertip to the doorknob, but it discharges and then it's gone.
It discharges very rapidly, but you know, it's about a thousand volts.
Somebody called and said, well, maybe there's some black ops you live out there in the desert.
Maybe somebody's got a lot of radiation in the air.
And then somebody called and said, well, you know, maybe it's all the radio and TV transmitting and that big soup of RF that's always around us that somehow now you're managing to gather in.
To which my wife then said, well, then if they put on a bad program, wouldn't that degrade the voltage?
It's just that you mentioned Tesla, you mentioned zero point, and then, of course, there is a difference in potential, isn't there, between ground, Earth, and the upper atmosphere.
Well, conceivably, I don't know, this is a wild guess.
Conceivably, you could be picking up the electromagnetic pulse generators from our devices, which simulate hydrogen bombs.
They simulate hydrogen bombs and they test aircraft.
Because, you know, aircraft components get short-circuited.
There's so much energy generated per meter that you short-circuit all of the electrical components.
And, you know, they've been thinking about using that against Baghdad, for example, to wipe out communications over Baghdad by dropping an H-bomb over the city.
Yeah, because the VLA is our premier way of looking at the night sky.
And many, many radio telescopes lash together, like in the movie.
And speaking about these radio telescopes, by the way, these radio telescopes are so good now that we've detected 100 planets orbiting other star systems.
Ten times the number of planets in our own solar system.
We now can pick them out orbiting other star systems, which is really great.
We have almost like an encyclopedia now of extrasolar solar systems that is really revolutionizing the way we view exobiology and exophysics.
Now, I don't know whether you're privy, you probably are not, to any real intelligence about what Baghdad has.
But how do you feel about the fact that this is more of a political question than a scientific one, unless you have scientific knowledge more than I'm aware of about what's going on in Iraq?
But I mean, here they are potentially putting together nuclear devices.
We think they're trying to do that.
And certainly chemicals.
We know they're doing that.
And probably nasty, nasty biological weapons.
And when you look at an enemy like Iraq, it seems to me you look at capability.
And they would appear to have a capability, although that's intel, and intent.
Well, they've already gassed and poisoned their own people.
So that would seem to show what they're willing to do.
And if they have it, they would probably be willing to do it to us.
So the president's trying to make the case that we should do it to them before they do it to us.
And there's a pretty big argument we're having here about whether we should do that or not.
It's tried to get some of these aluminum tubing, very specially machined and milled aluminum tubing.
Two, it means they don't have it yet.
They don't have ultra-centrifuges.
Now, it takes thousands of these ultra-centrifuges to make a bomb.
Pakistan has several thousand.
How do we know that?
Because during the Reagan administration, the Reagan administration winked at Pakistan as it assembled several thousand, we estimate close to maybe 10,000, of these machines, ultra-centrifuge machines, and that's how it built the uranium bomb.
Pakistan prefers uranium, India prefers plutonium in terms of how the Asian subcontinent is shaping up.
So Saddam Hussein tried to go plutonium, tried to go for the reactor, but that reactor was bombed in 1981.
One that it's trying, but yes, it's very primitive.
You're talking about thousands.
And of course, each one has many, many of these rods.
It takes thousands of these ultra centrifuges operating continuously, continuously over years to extract weapons-grade material, which is, of course, what the Pakistanis did.
All right, so you're making the case that Saddam really doesn't have nuclear enough to worry about many, many, many years, assuming that he can assemble these things.
Yeah, well, you know, germs, again, are fairly unstable.
You know, the Bible mentions germ warfare.
You know, you shoot dead carcasses into the wells of your enemy, shoot them over the barriers of your enemy's walls and poison the wells with dying carcasses.
The Bible mentions germ warfare.
So it's been around for quite a while.
But again, it's unstable.
You've got to make damn sure that your own people are vaccinated.
So in other words, you're making a case that you don't think that they've got enough technological development in any one of those areas to justify going in and getting it.
The royal flush is, of course, go in and take them out.
However, as was told to me when I was a grunt in the United States Army, you have the royal flush and you pay a price for it because you don't know what the enemy is going to do.
He may go for hand-to-hand combat in the cities, which is his ace in the hole.
City warfare.
And as a GI, I was always told the simple basics of infantry.
In an open field, you are king.
In a city, you are just dead meat like the next guy like your enemy.
It's hand-to-hand warfare in a city, where there's no advantages to smart weapons when you're fighting block-to-block.
That could be a bluff.
That could be a bluff that Saddam Hussein is making.
But look, we're talking poker.
And my attitude is, if it gets down to the royal flush, there's an awful big price we're going to have to pay for that royal flesh.
My guest is Dr. Minchio Kaku, one of America's, in fact, the world's leading theoretical physicists.
I'm Mark L. And raging through the nighttime, this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified
Dr. Baby Perfect!
Day by day People getting ready for the moon Some are happy Some are sad Oh, I'm gonna let the music play What the people need Is a way to make them smile It ain't so hard to do with you now
Gotta give a message, read it all through.
Oh, now my book calls you and ask you why.
Oh, why is the music?
I'll never let it go.
Thank you.
I've got some is to let me show how much I love you, baby.
I don't mind, and I don't mind.
Girl, I love never watching.
You are the sun, you are the rain.
Make my mood and rain.
You need to know I love you so And I do it all again and again Woah, woah, woah, yeah To rechart Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
Well, we're still looking for the meaning of it all, aren't we?
Perhaps that little equation.
Dr. Michio Kaku is my guest.
America, perhaps the world's greatest theoretical physicist, certainly one of them.
Co-founder of the string theory itself.
We'll be right back.
Stay right there.
Once again, here's Dr. Michio Kaku.
And Dr. Kaku, you said we've discovered about 100 planets, but they're big planets.
They're, you know, like Jupiter-sized planets, real monsters out there.
The almost inevitability is that we will discover smaller planets around stars eventually as we're able to look deeper and better.
And many of them, or some of them, might turn out to be Earth-like or able to support life.
And I was really curious about something.
If we were to detect life finally, even perhaps the probability of intelligent life on some other planet out there somewhere, as we get better and better, and yet there has been no contact from them.
What conclusions should we play around with trying to draw from that?
In other words, they're there, but they haven't tried to contact us in any way that we have yet understood.
Well, it's a matter of speculation, but my speculation is that if we're like ants in an anthill and somebody's building a 10-lane superhighway next door, would the ants even know what a 10-lane superhighway is?
Would they be able to communicate with the workers?
Would they be able to decipher what's happening with this gigantic 10-lane superhighway?
In other words, the galaxy could be teeming with Type 3 civilizations, and yet we're being type 0 are so primitive, we wouldn't even know that right next door, there could be a 10-lane hyper-highway going by.
But I mean, even so, even so, is it a pretty big long shot that, in other words, is it likely that eventually we'll discover an Earth-like planet and signs of some sort of intelligence or civilization before we hear from them in one way or another?
If possible, within the next 10 to 15 years, NASA is going to be sending up what are called interferometry satellites.
These are satellites that are so accurate, they would in fact be able to detect Earth-like planets, not Jupiter-sized planets, but planets that look just like good old terra firma orbiting other star systems.
And so the current generation of telescopes and radio telescopes can't do it.
We can only pick up Jupiter-size, so it's no wonder we pick up these abnormal oddballs out there, because that's all our instruments can pick up.
But I mean, when we get to the life part, then would we infer that they're so far ahead of us that they left electromagnetic-type communications in the dust millions or billions of years ago, or they just don't care to contact us, or don't care whether we're here or not?
Or that is, if they have even attempted to communicate.
In other words, isn't it possible that a life form would exist that would have and could evolve even technically and have absolutely no interest because of the way they're made up?
Yeah, because we're so arrogant to believe that anyone who's out there is going to come to us, visit us, and give us trinkets and beads, and they take us to our leader.
I don't do that to ants, so why should they do it to us?
So we're so arrogant to believe that they're going to go out of their way, go out of their way to visit us, make contact, and give us all sorts of energy and power and medicine and stuff like that.
No, but then on the other hand, Professor, I was out in the middle of the street yesterday with my wife, and we were watching this ant carry this long stick, about three times bigger than he was.
He was carrying this stick for whatever reason, across the road.
And as I mentioned before, I think they're watching from the moon.
You know, the moon has been getting a lot of interest lately.
A lot of people are saying we should vacation on the moon and go back to the moon, the romance of the Apollo program and so on and so forth.
It's very cheap now, by the way, to send rockets up there, you know, compared to what it was in the 60s.
And if we do ever go to the moon, I think we should do a complete scan of all energy sources on the moon, like they did in the movie 2001, because I firmly believe that there is a chance that if a passing Type 3 civilization were to find our solar system interesting, they would have left a probe, a probe on our moon.
It's the most logical place to place a probe.
No erosion, very stable.
They can observe us and not be interfered with.
No one's going to tamper with it and break into the device.
But at that point, would that be, from the perspective, isn't there an even shot that from their perspective, that might be as dangerous and negative as we imagine it might be positive and warm and fuzzy?
No, I think it's going to be very positive because once you're type 1, you're planetary and you've had centuries to work out sectarian, religious, racial, nationalistic, fundamentalist passions that we inherited from the swamp and from the forest.
And we'll have many hundreds of years stuck on this planet.
Because we're not going to terraform Mars in any time soon.
We're going to be stuck on the Earth for a while.
And as a consequence, we're going to have many centuries by which to work out all the differences we have.
And so at that point, we'd become truly interesting to a civilization.
When you were watching the ants, you didn't want to communicate with them because you didn't have much to offer.
However, you know, if the ants were to evolve into a higher state, maybe you might want to make contact with them.
And same thing with a probe on the moon.
If a passing type 3 civilization left a probe on the moon, it would activate when we became truly type 1, when we had a technology to be interesting.
Right now, we're not very interesting to them.
I mean, if they can sail across interstellar space, you know, chart the solar winds of the galaxy, if they could do that, they're at least 10,000, 100,000 years ahead of us.
Well, this is why we get old and pass away so we don't have to put up with that.
Right.
Another subject.
There's absolutely no question about it.
Of course, I live in the desert, so we expect dry conditions here in the desert.
But all across the United States, the world, well, certainly across the U.S. and North America, we are seeing an intense, really gigantic drought that hardly anybody's talking about.
And somehow they haven't put it together with what's going together in, for example, what's going down in Europe, where they're flooding.
It's horrible.
It's weather change, profound weather change, it would appear to be underway Right now, right.
And my understanding and my attitude is that this is not directly attributable to global warming, because, of course, global warming is a long-term effect.
However, it's consistent.
It's consistent with an acceleration of global warming.
What global warming will do is exacerbate differences.
Some people think the Earth is just going to get hot.
Well, yes, that's true, too.
But what it really does is exacerbate differences, which means flooding in one area simultaneous with drought in another area.
Because if you get more water evaporation from one part of the Earth, the water has to go someplace.
It condenses someplace else, and it creates a flood someplace else.
So we have flooding, flooding and droughts simultaneously taking place.
And so I think that all these signs are consistent with the acceleration of global warming.
All the bizarre weather, the forest fires, by the way, the forest fires, you forgot to mention them.
All right, well, maybe this will fit in with that somehow or another.
Again, from Science News, September 7th, Volume 162, the article is Chimp Change.
And it says, did an HIV-like virus ravage early chimps?
Two million years ago, chimpanzees experienced a drastic loss of variability in certain genes that help them fight viruses, a new study reports.
Widespread infection with an HIV-like virus may have pruned from the species individual chimps with some of these immunity genes.
Now, as we know, the chimps are immune to HIV, and it may be that at one time on Earth they were saying chimps were virtually wiped out with the exception of the few who evolved with an immunity.
We suspect that about 500 years ago or so, there was a catastrophe that hit Europe that wiped out a huge chunk of the European population, leaving a good chunk of the population immune to certain diseases.
You know, 1% of European people, 1%, are totally immune to AIDS.
They can be repeatedly infected.
Certain prostitutes can be repeatedly infected, and they never come down.
Their cells have no docking site for an HIV virus.
A virus has to have a docking site on a cell to dock onto, like a space probe docking onto a satellite.
The virus has dock onto cells to infect the cells.
What happened was about 500 years ago or so, a plague, probably the black plague, the famous black plague, which wiped out, I don't know, half of Europe, skewed the evolution of European people in the direction of creating more Europeans with T cells that lack the docking site for the black plague.
Now it turns out the docking site for the black plague is the same, we think, as the docking site for HIV.
So accidentally, it's given 1% of European people total immunity to HIV because their ancestors hundreds of years ago suffered a calamity called the black plague.
Well, it's difficult because gene therapy, you know, we've only had our first success just a few months ago in France.
You know, the bubble boy syndrome was cured.
There are four boys now.
One of them did a press conference last week that is apparently cured of the bubble boy syndrome.
So we can now tinker with the genetic heritage on a limited scale, curing boys without any immune, a very weak immune system by infecting them with viruses that contain the good germ, with the good genes, I'm sorry.
And so these people are infected with essentially a cold virus containing the good gene, and that's what viruses do.
They infect our genes with foreign genes, and we insert good genes and correct the bubble boy syndrome.
Now in the future, we may be able to do that to AIDS, because, you know, as you mentioned, there is simian SIV, but SIV is not fatal.
HIV and SIV, neither of them are really fatal to chimpanzees.
And we think it hopped over, just like smallpox.
You know, most diseases, by the way, hopped over from animals.
And that's why we think AIDS is just like all the other diseases that have hopped over from animals.
And we think that we'll be able to perhaps one day find the genetic mutation that makes chimps invulnerable and makes Europeans also invulnerable to HIV.
Totally invulnerable because they lack the docking site.
There's an article I also have about human cloning, as long as we're talking about genetics.
And a new study on cloning shows more than ever now that it's probably a very bad idea to replicate or attempt to replicate human beings.
The study performed by researchers at the Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research in Boston found that cloning to create new animals will almost always create abnormal creatures.
In other words, terrible things go wrong.
Dolly, the cloned sheep with the arthritis and various clones, stillbirths, early aging, other health problems, already suggest big problems with cloning in animals.
And of course, to try it with human beings is to jump way ahead, even though there are people out there trying to do that right now.
And it's going to take a long while to get them out.
You see, cloning is done by taking cells and heating them up and disturbing them, basically jiggling them.
And then, lo and behold, they become embryos again.
Now, we don't know how that happens.
It's magic.
You simply shake a black box and out comes out a clone.
It's almost magic.
We don't know how it works, but there's a price you pay.
And the price you pay is because you're scrambling all these genes.
It's no wonder you're going to get monsters, deformed animals.
For every one animal that comes out, right, there's scores of deformed, horrible-looking monster-like animals that didn't come out, right, with arms and legs coming out of the wrong places and stuff.
My guest is one of our nation's, the world's greatest theoretical physicist, Dr. Michio Kaku.
And by the way, his website is linked on ours.
It briefly was unable to handle the traffic, but I suggest you go to my website, artbell.com.
Look under the name Dr. Michio Kaku.
You'll see mkaku.org and click on that.
Make note of it.
Put it in your browser.
Keep going back.
That's where it's all happening.
now listen Indeed.
We're going to open the lines, and I'm going to let you ask Dr. Kaku anything you would like to ask.
So those are the phone numbers, and we're about to launch into your questions.
If you have one, that's what we're here for.
We'll be right back.
Well, all right, so we're about to take calls, but, you know, I understand it's kind of a, I guess it's an ethical question more than it is a scientific question.
But in view of the monsters that we are creating, we were discussing, should we stop or at least pause until we understand enough that we don't create as many monsters or at least restrict human cloning?
And then, of course, people are going to go ahead around the world with it anyway, so would that do any good?
Well, I think that we should definitely put some restrictions on human cloning because of the fact we're going to be Creating hundreds of mistrials for every one clone that seems to come out normal.
So I think cloning, as far as its future is concerned, will be used basically for animal husbandry.
And I think that, yeah, laws will be passed to restrict this.
However, I think that the real breakthroughs are going to be made in the area of designer children.
That is, being able to design the genetic heritage of our children, hopefully not for silly cosmetic reasons, but to create children that are healthier, that don't have the 5,000 or so genetic diseases that have been cataloged by geneticists over the years.
So I think that there is a future for this, but cloning is really not going to be part of it.
Again, rich people will use it to clone heirs for themselves because they don't like the heirs they already have.
But for the most part, I think the real action is going to be curing genetic diseases.
That's where the action is going to be, which include, by the way, not just TA-SACs for Jews or sickle cell anemia for African Americans or cystic fibrosis for Northern Europeans, but also at some point, maybe even curing cancer.
Because cancer, we now know, has genetic roots.
Cancer is caused by roughly four or so mutant genes that make the cell go crazy.
So we may have essentially future cures for arthritis, heart disease, maybe even cancer by attacking it at the genetic level.
You realize that when I was in high school, Edward Teller took an interest in me and was sort of my mentor throughout college and even into graduate school.
And I was always impressed by the power of the atom, but also the secrecy, the enormous secrecy that went on.
Edward Teller offered me a job in Livermore National Laboratories and Los Alamos National Laboratories, where there was a lot of government secrecy.
So I would hope that genetic engineering is not developed in the same way that the bomb was developed under Cold War secrecy.
And now, of course, we have all the revelations about human radiation trials and rotting nuclear waste dumps and all the horror stories coming out of World War II in Russia at the end of the year.
And there's one documented instance where a germ was almost unleashed accidentally from Fort Dietrich.
It might have hit Washington.
Cynics, of course, say that it would only have wiped out politicians, so no big deal, right?
But I think that if a bug escapes from one of our germ warfare facilities like Fort Dietrich, we have to be very mindful of that we're playing God here.
We're tinkering with life here.
But I think the peaceful applications of this are enormous in terms of curing diseases, because that's where it's going to be at.
Today we can cure SCIDS, the Bulba Boy Syndrome.
I think within the next five years, we're going to be curing a lot of other genetic diseases that are fairly common, as I mentioned, that affect different ethnic groups.
And I think we're going to see a revolution take place in a five, ten year framework with genetic engineering and gene therapy.
I'm going to try to be quick here so the other people can get a chance.
I remember you gave a presentation concerning dark matter.
That's right.
And you went into how it was first postulated by a woman and how she was laughed out and all that stuff.
And then you went on to say when they started looking into it more, they said there was a possibility and that it went against, I guess, Newtonian laws or something like that.
And so rather than throw out the laws, they did something else in order to make it fit.
What really caught my attention is when you said rather than getting rid of Newtonian laws, and my point is this, could it be that a lot of things that most physicists postulate or theorize about, they're unable to make manifest because of the fact that they're restricted by the laws of physics.
In other words, rather than if, let's take anti-gravity, if a person wanted to invent something like that, but the laws of physics prevented them from doing so by going outside of that and not allowing the laws of physics to restrict them,
it would be possible that there's a lot of things that we could make manifest, except that's the fact that we allow the laws of physics, which is really kind of like our understanding of the universe to get in the way.
I mean that they're there's the way we understand the universe and the way it works.
Well thinking that maybe our laws of physics, you know, not to scrap all the laws, but perhaps maybe we can think out of the box and not allow that to be.
Let me read this very quickly, one paragraph email.
I'd love to hear Dr. Kaku talk about his university and if the great divide between science and the humanities is an entrenched aspect of life in that cultural institution.
How much of a rejection of science is there?
What kind of educational service is it?
If a university is not altogether agreed about the one world we all live in, of course, there are different views to be had and examined concerning the real world.
Well, I think a lot of interesting things were mentioned.
First, let me tackle dark matter.
Back in the 60s, Vera Rubin, a female astronomer, talked about the fact that the Milky Way galaxy is spinning too fast for its own good.
It should fly apart like a pinwheel that goes too fast.
Now, the galaxy is quite stable.
I mean, our sun is anchored in the Milky Way galaxy, but by rights, we should be flying off into deep space.
So the question is, why are we here?
And the answer is, Because dark matter holds the galaxy together.
Now, as little caller mentioned, if we assume Newton's laws are correct, then we have to assume that some new object is holding the galaxy together because Newtonian physics says the galaxy should fly apart.
So rather than abandon Newton, we simply postulate a new form of matter called dark matter, and now we have lots of evidence from the Hubble Space Telescope and things like that for dark matter.
Now, there is a precedent in the other direction.
When Einstein was looking at the orbit of Mercury, he realized that Mercury's orbit deviated slightly from Newton's laws of motion.
Therefore, people were looking for the planet Vulcan.
The planet Vulcan was supposed to be inside the orbit of Mercury.
They looked for it because they believed in Newton.
They believed in the so-called laws of physics, so there must be planet Vulcan.
Einstein comes along and says, to hell with Vulcan, I have a new theory.
Newton was wrong.
There are new laws of physics.
Space is curved, says Einstein.
And of course, Vulcan was never found, but Einstein's equations come out very correct.
And in fact, satellites have now tested Einstein's theory to about 1% accuracy, looking at quasars and looking at huge astronomical distances.
We have ample proof of the correctness of the fact that space is curved.
So there is always a possibility that the laws of physics are incomplete.
However, so far, we haven't seen too many deviations.
The big deviation will be at the instant of the Big Bang, and that we think is where superstring theory will begin to take over, and we have to go to theories in 10 and 11 dimensional hyperspace.
So until we delve into the real guts of the Big Bang itself, ordinary Einsteinian physics is pretty good, and we see no big deviations from ordinary Einsteinian physics until, of course, you go at the instant of the Big Bang.
And I wonder, again, with what I read, how much of a rejection, how much of a problem within the university, for example, where you are, New York City University.
Well, the City University of New York is one of the largest systems in the country.
It's a huge system.
And I teach at the flagship university, the City College of New York, but the City University of New York has Brooklyn College and Queens College and a whole bunch of senior colleges and junior colleges.
It's a huge educational system.
And it produces lots of scholars at both the PhD level and the undergraduate level.
But unfortunately, I have to say that I would actually like it if there was some kind of raging debate with controversies and people yelling and screaming at each other about these questions.
But as you know, on most universities, people debate sex in the city and people debate M ⁇ M. And look, I can't force them.
The kids would rather debate rat music and the finer points of disco than debate the meaning of life and the whole question of string theory and hyperspace and parallel universes.
If you have 100 students, how many of them would you put in the category of those who pay rapt attention and are immersed in this controversy versus those who are in the category you just spoke of?
Well, you know, when I wrote the book Hyperspace, you know, people said, well, gee, this is a book about the cutting edge of reality, you know, where Einstein's theory breaks down.
And what kind of audience are you going to have for a book like that?
People would just want to watch Ofra Rimfrey.
And unless you get part of her book club, you're not going to get anywhere.
But the book became a bestseller, and I was very pleasantly surprised that there are lots of people who buy books like Stephen Hawking's book, because they're curious.
They want to know where we came from.
They want to know where we're going.
And they want to know whether there's any meaning to it or what is our role in the larger scheme of things.
So I'm pleasantly surprised that even though on any student campus you can see people listening to rap music and shaking their booties to whatever song is the latest rage, there are students who hunger, who really hunger for knowledge of something bigger than just what's happening down the street.
Yes, well, the critical is by percentage, are there enough in that category to see to it that the politicians move enough funding into areas of interest for yourself?
Well, I would hope so, but it's always a struggle with the government to get the next generation of satellites.
Remember the supercollider that was supposed to be built in Texas?
Oh, yes.
That was our baby.
That machine, the superconducting supercollider, the SSC, was to be the biggest machine ever conceived of in the history of science, period.
It was the machine that Ronald Reagan pushed that was supposed to eventually confirm theories like string theory and 10, 11-dimensional hyperspace and Higgs bosons and things like that.
But they canceled it.
And it's very sad, but in front of the United States Congress, some congressmen were asking physicists questions about this.
One congressman said, will we find God with this machine?
And of course, the scientist's jaw hit the floor and he didn't know what to say.
I would have said something like, God, by whatever signs and symbols you use ascribed to the deity, this machine will take us the closest that is humanly possible to that conception.
Unfortunately, scientists are not used to speaking this language.
The scientists flubbed the whole question and they canceled the machine.
Wildcard line, you're on the air with Dr. Michio Kaku.
Good morning.
Hello?
Oh, didn't push the button.
Now you're on the air.
unidentified
Hi.
What I wanted to ask you is my concern is the huge secrecy about everything that's happening with this administration.
And words like collateral rural damage and sort of mincing over sort of things that are happening.
I think perhaps the Malaise in your students is they're cynical and they're giving up because it's like, well, they don't tell us anything, so what's the point?
Because we've got these BSCs around here, which is, as you know, a bioweapon.
We've got West Nile, which is a bioweapon.
I mean, why would it start in Queens?
Because it leaked from the island.
And I think the rush to Iraq is to cover up the scandals, the scandals of the corporation and the fixed election and blah, blah, blah.
I mean, we're talking about human lives that will be lost, ours and others.
We have to stop saying collateral damage.
We have to stop saying, oh, well, a few mistakes in the lab.
Show us those mistakes.
Because I think, you know, our population, the population of the world are grown-ups, and we've elected you to represent us.
And we need information to make informed choices.
And I think people are afraid in government and possibly in science to say, ooh, if we show them this, it'll really freak them out.
Well, maybe it will, and maybe for a good reason, because maybe we are moving too fast.
We've got 10 years on this planet.
We've got 10 years.
Don't you think perhaps science should be focusing on another way of giving us energy that isn't going to be destroying our future for our children?
So there's a certain cynicism that we don't believe the government anymore when the government itself says that, yes, they would regularly plant stories to misguide public opinion.
However, I think that we're now dealing with fire when it comes to biotechnology with tremendous potential and promise, but it's more powerful than the bomb.
How do you recall a germ once it's out of a test tube?
You can't recall it like you can recall a Ford, right?
I'm Art Bell from the High Desert with Dr. Michio Kaku, one of our greatest theoretical physicists.
Stay right where you are.
This is Coast.
unidentified
Every rings like a bell through the night.
Wouldn't you love the lover?
Fix through the sky like a bird is riding.
Who will be the lover?
Why you let you never take one?
Can you run away?
Would you say that she promised you ever?
Will you ever win?
Jesus, I forget all of the time.
The times have come Here but now they're gone Seasons don't feel the reaper Nor do the
wind, the sun or the rain We can be like they are Come on baby Don't feel the reaper Baby take my hand Don't feel the reaper We'll be able to fly Don't feel the reaper Baby I'm your man La la la la la la To recharge bell in the Kingdom of Nye.
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Well, I think we have more than 10 years, but I think the listener is very much worried about the fact that the atmosphere does seem to be collapsing at a rate that who would have thought possible five, ten years ago.
Every glacier on the Earth is receding.
Huge chunks of the South Pole, the size of Delaware, are breaking off.
The North Pole has a 50% reduction in the thickness of the polar ice over the North Pole.
And the snows of Kilimanjaro aren't going to be there anymore for the next generation of Hemingway readers because of the recession of all the glaciers and the crazy weather that we're getting, which is going to be exacerbated by, I think, global warming.
So I think this is a wake-up call to those people who think that it's just nothing but science fiction.
I think that really is something going on.
But I think the cure to it is not cynicism.
The cure to it is more democracy.
People have to become more actively engaged with the internet and politics and who's getting elected on which ticket.
People have to take destiny in their own hands.
As I said, we're witnessing the crucial juncture.
We're headed for a Type 1 civilization.
But the transition between Type 0 to Type 1 is the most dangerous of all transitions, and we're entering it now.
So we humans are privileged, privileged to be alive to see this transition happen.
But in outer space, it probably failed to happen on many occasions.
And that's one reason why some scientists believe that there's no one out there in our quadrant of the galaxy, perhaps, because they didn't make the transition between type 0 to type 1.
Their atmospheres have been irradiated, or their atmospheres are too hot to.
Yeah, well, in the interest of full disclosure, which is what that young lady was talking about, or at least more disclosure, to be honest, the odds of making it to type 1 from type 0, you mentioned we're entering that period, that custom.
Well, I think it's gotten worse the last time I talked to you.
I mean, who would have thought that just within the last few years we would see this erratic weather with the thinning of the ice caps and the gradual breakup of chunks of the outer regions of the South Pole and mosquitoes entering our backyards carrying diseases that we've never even had names for before.
Yeah, now, first of all, it was Nazi scientists who first investigated propellers of their submarines and ships, and they found that these Nazi propellers were giving off bubbles that luminesced.
And they were caused by the collapsing, very even spherical collapse of gases that heated them up to about 7,000, 10,000 degrees, which is about the surface of the sun, in fact, and caused them to spark.
You can actually see these things in the ocean.
Now, nothing came of it because there was no weapon you could devise out of it.
But scientists now are trying to collapse these bubbles, not just have the surface of the sun temperatures, like 10,000 degrees, but the interior of the sun, where we're talking about tens of millions of degrees, where fusion takes place.
And fusion is the secret of the stars.
It is the way in which Einstein's E equals mc squared is unleashed.
I've taken several cruises, and at night you can go back to the back of the cruise boat and look down, and there's this green luminescent trail behind the ship, you know, with these great big props.
Yeah, well, I've never seen it, but again, Nazi doctors called it like twinkling stars, tiny little stars, where these little bubbles would collapse and heat up the gas inside the bubble to the surface of the sun, causing it to luminesce, just like, you know, things luminesce in a fireplace, right?
And you can duplicate this in a laboratory with very purified chemicals, very purified chemicals, heat them up and cause these bubbles to form.
And sure enough, you can get enormous temperatures to be created.
Some people have claimed that they seem to see some...
Some people claim that, yeah, they seem to see some neutrons.
However, there's a lot of background neutrons as well.
You know, neutrons come out of radioactive byproducts in the ground or in the atmosphere.
So we've got to be careful about this.
But it is a dark horse, but it's a very interesting one because the physics of it are well documented going back, like I say, going back to before World War II.
And many physicists have claimed that if you can get a spherical collapse, an even spherical collapse of a bubble, you can reach temperatures that are nuclear.
You know, we're talking tens to hundreds of millions of degrees.
Now, we haven't reached that yet, but there are claims that we've reached temperatures where we get some neutrons to come out.
Now, if you get a really hefty chain of reaction, if you get a really hefty nuclear reaction going, you'll create enough neutrons to kill yourself.
Or Doug in Vancouver, BC Canada asks, Dr. Kaku, could you calculate or give us your thoughts on the odds for humanity to survive 20 years without a Frankengerm escaping and virtually taking out most of the human race?
However, in 20 years' time, I don't see any mad scientists creating airborne AIDS or airborne Ebola.
Now, AIDS is a very simple virus.
It's only nine genes.
It's actually quite simple.
Nine genes.
Our body consists of about 30,000 genes.
But those nine genes mutate roughly a million times faster than we do.
So therefore, AIDS is a moving target.
It's very hard to narrow down.
As soon as you think you got it and cured it, it mutates to another form.
So to inject the gene for it being airborne, no one can do that yet.
Thank God.
But the weaponization, the weaponization of common germs like smallpox and making smallpox airborne, for example, that in principle could be done.
And not, I don't think, within a 10, 20 year timeframe.
But yeah, it's a possibility that some devious soul may want to, in his or her black heart, have designed to create airborne smallpox or airborne AIDS or airborne.
Well, honey, you should mention airborne smallpox because when I see news headlines saying that they are creating smallpox vaccine for all the politicians and government workers and maybe the military, you know, gee, I ask myself, well, I wonder why they're doing that?
Buster of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Caku.
Good morning.
unidentified
Good morning, Art.
This is Tawasi in Eugene, Oregon.
Yes.
I too want to go and throw tea in the sea because of the obfuscation and all that.
But my question is, do you see us using love to cross those dimensions and really sort of pass over the gap that we need to cross to get to the next, what is it, type one civilization?
Because I really see so much hate in the world, especially, you know, I mean, the Middle East.
Oh, no, as he's got a a very good question uh in a way.
I mean, it's not exactly a straight-on scientific question, but uh his point about so much hate versus what it might take to make the transition, Professor.
Well, I think, yes, it is going to take a lot of love and a lot of luck.
Luck doesn't sound very scientific, but I think out there in outer space, there are probably many civilizations which didn't make it, you know, dying type zero civilizations that didn't make the transition.
So I think we're going to have to have a lot of love and a lot of luck, okay?
But also, I think in some sense, history is on our side, in the sense that you see the trend toward type one happening every time you open the newspaper.
Every time I open the newspaper, I hear stories about the internet.
I hear stories about the European Union, where countries that have hated each other for the last thousand years are now getting together to compete in the world marketplace.
I hear stories about Hollywood movies going around the world, you know, altering local cultures.
And I see the beginnings of Type 1 everywhere.
However, as was pointed out, we have all the challenges that still face us.
Pollution on a global scale in the form of global warming and nuclear weapons.
Those are the only two things that I can see that can halt the march to Type 1, is weapons and pollution.
And I think that we are entering that very crucial period where it is going to take a lot of love.
My wife gardens as so many people do, and some years you see the beginnings of wonderful green things that are going to become vegetables and herbs and all the things my wife grows.
And occasionally, summer arrives suddenly in the desert and it goes to 117 degrees and it's all gone in a flash.
Or there's a windstorm of 180 to 100 miles an hour and it's all gone, wiped clean.
Well, I think the same thing applies for intelligence.
I think when we look for meaning in the universe, we have to realize that life is extremely precious.
When we see how easy it is for life to be extinguished, and when we look in outer space and we see how vast the universe is, some people think that it makes us feel small and insignificant.
I feel the opposite.
I feel that looking into outer space, looking at things being so easily eradicated on the planet Earth, I see how precious life is and how precious, intelligent life is.
I mean, sitting on our shoulder is perhaps the most complex object created by nature out to four light years of the planet Earth, out to the nearest star.
Believe it or not, what sits on our shoulder is nature's greatest creation, the human mind, consciousness, perhaps the most complex object out to the nearest star four light years from here.
And I think that's a precious gift.
I think that for those people who want to search for meaning in life, instead of feeling small looking at the cosmos and the wonderment of it all, I think we should be empowered.
We should be thrilled, realizing the fact that we are endowed with consciousness, perhaps the most precious commodity in our quadrant of the galaxy.
And perhaps the most powerful someday we'll find out.
We're so short on time.
Professor, mkaku.org, your website, we've got a link.
I'm sure you're getting plenty of traffic.
In fact, it all stalled down a little while ago, so you are getting plenty of traffic.
If you were to recommend the first book, as somebody listens to you tonight, you've written so many, that people should read, the number one book that you've written that people should read.
Well, pick up hyperspace first, just to get the romance of higher dimensions and universes and just see how wondrous the so-called mind of God that Einstein talked about, this hyperspace that we've been talking about.
And then visions.
If you want to find out about germs and you want to find out about genetic engineering and robots and all the stuff you see in science fiction movies, except you want to have a scientific basis for it, you can follow it up with visions.