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Sept. 4, 2002 - Art Bell
01:16:24
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Zero point energy - Nick Cook
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♪♪ From the high desert and the great American Southwest,
I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, whatever the case may be, wherever you are, in whatever
time zone you reside in, I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
Hello there!
I wasn't sure if I was ever going to say that again, and it's great to say it.
I'm Art Bell, and it is good to be back, and I first want to thank George Norrie.
Who has done an incredible job, an absolutely incredible job of filling in during the time that I've been on vacation.
If that's what you want to call it.
He really has been a trooper, and you've not heard the last of George.
In a moment, I'll sort of tell you how it's gonna go.
Alright, here's the deal on my, in quotes, vacation.
My back, you know, went out again.
Talking about your ills is about as interesting as watching grass grow, and I hate listening to other people talk about their aches and pains.
I hate it.
So, I really don't even want to tell you about mine, but I'll tell you what's going on.
I was having really horrible spasms, you know, just doubled over.
Purity doubled over again and again and again and again.
It happens to me, right?
And so, This time, the network said, well, alright then, just take the time off between now and Labor Day and see if it's better.
And so, that was the plan.
And for the first week and a half, I think week and a half, I continued to have spasms.
I mean, it's like hell on earth, you know?
It doubles you over.
I cannot sit, I cannot stand.
I can only lie on my hip and my elbow or stay in bed, that's it.
And even many times during that, you can't do that.
I mean, it's just beyond description.
Anyway, I've been back to the doctor, doubled my anti-inflammatory medicine, and about a week and a half later, it started to get better.
And about two weeks into this fair, maybe almost two weeks into this current little misadventure of my back, I was better and every time that I've gotten better, my immediate, my first thing is back on the air.
I want to go back on the air right away.
This time we decided to play it a little different and not come back on the air right away and see if time resting would keep this from happening, you know, stop it from happening again and again.
You know, I'm kind of on the edge of surgery here.
Which I'm not, uh, which I'm still trying to defy, but, um, I don't know for how much longer.
I'm looking into this microsurgery stuff.
They're beginning to do a lot more interesting stuff, but, uh, still, uh, something of that magnitude is something you gotta think real, real hard about in your life, because, you know, it could go out, still go the wrong way, and then you wouldn't be doing a lot of walking at all.
And so, you know, it's something to consider, and I'm considering it.
But I'm not there anyway, so maybe just short of two weeks into this, I decide, well, I can't stand it.
I'm not going to just sit around.
I can't.
You know, if I'm going to be off for the rest of the time, I can't.
So I'm going to North Carolina.
My mom is in North Carolina, and I haven't seen my mom in years.
So I was going to go and visit my mom.
And I thought, well, I've got the means to do it.
I've got this wonderful RV, and I can lie on the couch.
Ramona can drive on the highways.
And It'll be a snap.
We'll get to North Carolina and back.
And so off we took, all packed up and everything.
And we got down into the Arizona border.
We just got right up to New Mexico.
And my back said, oh no.
Oh no, you don't.
You're going home.
And so, we came back.
Didn't get to make that trip, which sucks.
I mean, this is what happens with age, right?
When I was young, man, I hitchhiked three times across the U.S.
and back.
I mean, I put on some... It was back in the days when it was safe to hitchhike, right?
So, that didn't work out, and I didn't get to see my mom.
Sorry, Mom, if you're listening.
Really sorry.
Best laid plans of mice, men, and people with bad backs.
Uh, so, uh, here's the way it's gonna go for a while.
I'm gonna work, uh, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday of the weekday, and George is going to do Monday and Tuesday, so you are not George-less.
Uh, George will be with you on his regular weekend day, uh, initially, and then, uh, Monday and Tuesday, and I'll be here Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and we're gonna try that for a while and see if I can sit for that long without my back turning to jelly.
We'll see.
And then, so what did I do with the rest of it?
That didn't work out.
You know, I was in agony by the time we got to the New Mexico border, and so that one didn't work out.
So we came back.
Still, I'm stuck with nothing to do, and I can't do... I just can't do that.
I'm not the kind of person that can do nothing.
Well, we have fenced off the... What happened is, I bought some property adjacent to my home, and then a catty corner from my home, I bought that property too, you know, to keep it...
Not isolated, but quiet where I am.
And it's been quiet except lately, these little monsters.
These cherubs.
With these three-wheeled dust machines out here, we have something called poof dirt.
I mean, a person could disappear in poof dirt if they're not careful, not be found for days.
Very loose dirt in the desert.
We call it poof dirt because when you, like if you take a screwdriver and you throw it in the air and it comes down in the poof dirt, it goes poof, and you don't see it anymore.
It's like quicksand, it goes down.
Anyway, so it's very loose, and so I thought, These little cherubs who are driving these three-wheeled dust makers, and they would use my property to just scream across on these little three-wheeled things, creating this dust cloud, which is bad for Ramona's asthma, which is kicking up right now.
And I thought, well, I think I'll fence off the yard.
That'll stop the little guys.
And so I did.
I fenced it off.
Now I'm making two and a half acres fenced off here.
And so now I've got this nice fence around the yard, and I looked at the yard, And then I saw the fence, I looked at the yard again, and I'm a ham radio operator, you know?
And my mind, my brain, went, oh ho ho, I know what I'm gonna do.
Something I've always wanted to do all my life.
And so I got a hold of my contractor, because I can't do this kind of stuff anymore with my back.
I can't do physical stuff.
And I designed this antenna.
Ah, oh my, what an antenna I've got here.
As you know, I've got a hundred foot tower in the back of my home.
And so I had five of these 2-inch gigantic steel poles, very tastefully done in white, I might add, 60-foot poles, five of these 60-foot poles, plus my 100-foot tower, and I put up this loop antenna.
It's almost 1,000 feet in diameter.
feet in diameter in in diameter it's a thousand feet around and and this is the
antenna of all antennas I can't even tell you It's only been finished for a couple of days.
My contractor just finished up.
Bonnie Crystal, who's been on this program, came down and did the stringing of the wire because limp me can't go out there and pull wire like I used to.
Thank you, Bonnie.
And we're going to have her on the show again, by the way, pretty soon.
Anyway, this loop is finished and it is awesome.
It is blinking awesome.
So I'll kind of give you reports on how that goes.
But this thing will pick up things that And transmitting, oh my gosh.
It is the Ham's dream.
It's a thousand, almost thousand foot loop.
And it's way up there.
Lowest point is 60 feet.
Highest point about 100 feet.
And it is kick butt.
So, I did that.
Put up this monster antenna.
I'll get some photographs up for you when I can.
President Bush.
He promised yesterday to seek congressional approval before he does anything, attacking Iraq, going to kill Saddam, whatever it is we're going to do.
And it's going to be, obviously, a very high-profile issue in the campaign for control of the House and the Senate.
This is a big one, folks, to go to war or not to go to war.
Let's see, what are the Democrats saying?
Some Democrats who control the Senate said the non-binding resolution is possible but not certain because, quote, of the lack of time and Bush's failure thus far to make his case for war.
President Bush is not making his case for war.
I mean, would they prefer that he makes his case, you know, after Five million Americans die of smallpox or some crap like that.
In other words, it's clear, it's clear that they're making poison stuff.
To kill us over there.
They're making, uh, trying to make nuclear weapons.
I don't know where they are with that.
But, uh, on the bio side, I'm sure they've got, you know, plenty that would take millions of us out.
And you can be sure they'll put it in the hands of the people who know how to use it, right?
Because they have already demonstrated quite readily what they're willing to do to us.
So, I don't know.
They want the President to make the case after millions die.
That seems to be the way we do things in this country, you know?
We make the case to defend ourselves only after... I mean, they knocked down the two biggest buildings in New York, right?
And then, of course, it was easy to make a case to go to Afghanistan, go after the jerk that did it, but... Don't for one second think that there's not an awful lot of support coming from places like Saudi Arabia.
I mean, we mask that because we gotta be friends with the Saudis because we need the oil, right?
So we mask that, but a lot of this board came from Saudi Arabia, you'd be damn sure of that.
Unfurling banners and shouting, shame on Bush!
Dozens of activists at the World Summit heckled Secretary of State Colin Powell yesterday, as he defended America's record on the environment and helping the developing world.
You know, while I agree with the President with regard to Iraq, which surprises a lot of people because I'm a libertarian, but I'm not stupid!
I know they've got some over there that they're cooking up to kill us.
I know they are.
So, libertarian or not, I'm all for pre-empting that and going and killing that bastard.
No problem there.
But here I disagree with the administration and I agree with those who say the administration's record on the environment stinks.
Just plain stinks.
In fact, if I could have done it, I probably would have been a copyright violator.
Somebody sent me a cartoon.
Which I thought was appropriate with regard to their environmental position.
It showed this, it said the Bush environmental policy, and it showed this complete community, concrete and shopping malls and houses for as far as you could see, and there was this one little uprising of land, and you know, just kind of like where they show a car sitting, you know, and the Tetons or something on top of one of these things, and here on top of this little uprising of land, There's every form of wildlife you can imagine, including a puzzled-looking moose, you know, and a bunch of other animals who are in this little tiny area that's been carved out for them, looking very confused, just way high up in the air on this little piece of land, looking totally pathetic.
And, of course, it was a gigantic exaggeration, but, you know, the record isn't that great.
Oh, this is very interesting.
Check this out.
Well, no, I'll hold that for a second.
Israel has expelled a couple of Palestinians, two actually, from the West Bank, driving them blindfolded into the Gaza Strip, leaving them at a deserted fig orchard.
It is the first time Israel has forced relatives of militants to leave their home areas, like saying just, you know, you're expelled, goodbye.
The pellets say, yes or no, of course condemning the whole thing as crimes against humanity, violating all international laws and so forth.
And I wouldn't know what to say about that except sigh.
Oh, sigh.
It's just going to go on and on forever in the Middle East or until there's, you know, another war.
Then it'll still go on.
I don't think it will ever stop.
Do any of you out there really think the Middle East will ever reach any accommodation that the Israelis and Palestinians and the Arabs are ever going to reach, any sort of, ever going to reach any sort of agreement with each other?
I don't think so.
Not while we're alive, anyway.
Maybe some future generations will achieve that, but oh, way too much bad blood.
It's never gonna end.
And so, you know, sigh.
Health officials were trying to determine yesterday if West Nile virus, oh this is a bad story, if West Nile virus can be spread through blood transfusions, but any testis screen donated blood for the sometimes deadly disease is at least months away, maybe years away, they say.
They emphasize though the blood supply is, quote, very safe, end quote.
Well, You know, I'd like to believe that right off the bat.
That the blood supply is safe.
But, uh, that's what they said about everything else, too.
Before they got to testing, and then almost always, it seems to me, this is just commentary, but it seems to me almost always when they say, the blood supply is safe, you better not go get a blood transfusion unless you're dying.
Which is usually why you get one anyway, right?
But I mean, they're almost always wrong, and then later they find out, and then, you know, it happened with the AIDS epidemic, and it just seems like it happens.
Now, this is very interesting to me.
It was actually one of the lead stories, but I held it.
Or maybe the lead story, actually.
Uh, Washington.
Associated Press.
The Bush administration, you can't believe, you're not going to believe this, folks, plans to adopt a small-scale test program of arming commercial pilots, reversing its previous opposition to guns in the cockpit.
Can you believe it?
The administration is modeling its plan after similar proposals that circulated in Congress this summer.
One such plan, Would have armed as many as 1,400 pilots.
That'd be about 2% of those flying.
In other words, they're not arming every Tom, Dick and Harry who gets into a cockpit.
They're arming the pilots of the commercial airliners.
And I thought it was a good idea then.
I think it's a good idea now.
And I'm glad they're changing their minds.
One government official speaking on condition of anonymity said the administration was on the brink of announcing the decision.
So finally, finally they're going to do it.
I mean, think about yourself.
How would you feel safer?
Would you feel safer knowing that your pilot is armed and ready, and the co-pilot, whoever all else?
Or would you feel safer knowing that the pilot and the co-pilot behind that rather flimsy damn door they have are absolutely defenseless to anything that would come through the door at them?
Hmm?
Which would make you more comfortable?
Which airline would you rather fly on?
The airline that has...
The unarmed crew or an airline like this one?
Good afternoon, this is your captain speaking with just a little flight information.
Coming up on the left, we're going to be catching a glimpse of the Grand Canyon.
On the right, you can be able to see the Hooper Dam in just a few minutes.
We're flying at an altitude of 37,000 feet and our airspeed is 400 miles an hour.
Couple little facts here.
I'm packing a Colt King Cobra.
That's a .357 caliber firearm with a black rubber grip and a six-inch barrel.
Also, the co-pilot is carrying a Kimber custom defense pistol with all the bells and whistles you'd expect from a custom gun of that kind, with an alloy frame and bevel treatment on the entire gun.
And our chief flight attendant, Roger, has a Ruger Bearcat 22 with a hand-fluted cylinder.
All three are capable of piercing body armor at a distance of up to 27 feet.
I can put a hole in human bone and flesh the size of the Grand Canyon, which, by the way, is coming up on the left-hand side of the plane, so just sit back and relax and enjoy the rest of the flight.
Now, now there is the airline you would rather fly on, right?
I couldn't believe that.
I, you know, during the time I was off, somebody said that.
I couldn't believe it.
Tonight's headline is, the Bush administration is in fact going to arm I'm apparently about to announce a change of policy to allow pilots to be armed, which, by the way, I think is very, very wise.
Why not?
They are in at least as much danger as a cop who walks the beat, right?
At least that much danger, and probably, statistically, maybe even more.
So, for God's sakes, give them a gun, let them protect their lives, and that, of course, of the people they're driving.
Anybody know what happened?
I got an email.
Connie Chung was going to do a report on the Yale Skull and Bones Society.
You know, the thing Bush is involved in and so many other powerful people.
And then she didn't do it.
And so, of course, or at least this person didn't see her do it.
And so if she didn't do it, everybody imagines the worst.
You know, they imagine Some sort of cover-up and anything named Skull and Bones is always going to get everybody's attention.
By the way, during the time George was on, I sent several things in.
There was a particular ghost photograph that I sent in, a photograph, MPEG, that was just absolutely incredible.
Hope you got to see that.
Tonight, I've got photographs up that somebody sent me.
Actually, it's a link to these photographs of Area 51.
You know, there's a lot of controversy about Area 51 out near where I live here and whether it's gone away or they're doing something else with it.
Well, we have the best photographs I've ever seen of Area 51.
Satellite photography taken by the Russians, of course, and we've got the link to it.
Right here, it's unblinking believable.
Well... Oh man, we already destroyed the site.
I'm sorry.
I just tried to go to the site myself.
And the owner of the site, the poor owner of the site, that's a shame.
Let's see, it says the page you're trying to reach has exceeded its hourly bandwidth limit.
The site will be available again in, oh, in one hour!
Okay, well, so we blew this poor guy out, and the site will be back available in one hour.
Hopefully.
Oh, I'm sorry.
Incredible photographs of Area 51, but you're not going to be able to see them.
Just hang in there.
You know, the notice says you'll see it in an hour.
Good luck.
They are detailed, and there's no question about what's going on at Area 51.
Then we've got this video of the Air Force C-130 Angel decoys.
You've got to see that.
That's a blow-away, too.
Oh, boy, is that a blow-away.
This C-130 over water this time, disgorging everything it's got.
It's the damnedest thing you've ever seen.
Then, for the geeks out there, we have the online bathroom seat.
And this is a kind of an interesting photograph showing modern-day man.
It has the standard Super flush there, but beside it on one side is a telephone and a fax machine with every accoutrement and on the other side We've got a monitor and a keyboard and so you can sit there doing business while you're doing business, right?
Picture it's just a picture, but I think you'll enjoy it and then there's an item called chupacabra incident I don't know if you've seen that yet, but Very interesting email.
I probably should interview this person.
It says, last June of 2002, me and three friends encountered the chupacabra lifeforms.
Standing three to four feet tall, one looked about six feet tall.
They have large glowing red eyes, which I hate personally, and spikes starting from the head to the back.
Oh, great.
They seem not to like rainy wet nights, and they don't come out at day.
Nocturnal creatures seem to feed on goat and chicken blood.
We gathered this theory due to the fact that since chickens and goats live by us, the goat was found one day with a nearly ripped off horn and bottom lip was taken as well.
The owner, the goat said the creature looked like a so-called dog.
It has three toes on each foot, three razor-sharp claws and pointy teeth.
Also live in Borough Underground.
This person encountered this thing.
One type of chupacabra gets exhilaration from fear.
On August 24, 2002, my best friend was attempting to be attacked.
Was attempted to be attacked.
This may be a Spanish individual, but lived.
My friend said it jumped out from a bush.
It had a tongue like a lance.
It sucked blood.
It shot a mysterious object, uh, that was liquid-like.
That might be something to freeze the victim, right?
They seem to live in burrows and trees and nest there as well.
We also looked at random sites.
Yours, uh, the most helpful.
Thank you very much.
We have a lot of Chupacabra compared to most.
Most of the photos and stories you had were exactly what we saw.
I have seen these creatures, and here's my story.
August 24th, 2002, West Central, Barta, Florida.
Today I saw the legs of a black thing running from a fence to a tire of a truck.
The upper body was not seen because it was hidden by a bush and a truck.
It disappeared at the back round wheel of the truck.
I'm not sure what happened, but I did see something unreal.
Then I spotted a nest-like structure and a tree.
Again in another than in a third across from my friend's house.
We realized our guns weren't needed due to their strongly covered body.
We now use sticks and other sharp objects we found.
Out that they have skin tougher than the strongest Kevlar armor.
They attack people.
This is a confirmed fact.
The ones we saw don't have wings or tails, but strong hind legs.
They stand as if they were dogs on their hind legs.
Their hands are raised as if somebody was typing very close to a keyboard.
It means they are raised at chest level.
If you ever see one run, Because they will chase you.
They're also masters of preemptive attacks or back attacks.
Attack with extreme caution.
Ha!
Use blunt or extremely sharp objects.
Or just back over them with a car.
Please, if anyone fights them... That is, if anyone fights them, be careful and whoop their... Mm-hmm.
Good luck and Godspeed.
I'll be in touch.
So be ready over an hour.
Obviously, I'd probably like to interview that person if they had a...
Encounter, a real encounter with a chupacabra.
Sharp sticks.
And if you're going to Italia, write, a glowing eyes and all, scales, and I'm going to take a sharp stick and go attack a chupacabra.
All right, the numbers have changed back.
We're going to do some open lines.
Top of the hour, we're going to talk with a very interesting guy across the pond in Great Britain named Nick Hook.
Nick Cook is a Jane's Defense Weekly guy.
You know what Jane's Defense Weekly is, right?
It's the authority on stuff that flies, right?
Anything that flies, Jane's is considered to be the authority and that's who we've got here at the top of the hour.
At the moment, we will talk to you about anything which you wish to talk about.
So you know the numbers, here we go.
West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
Good evening, morning, whatever.
Good evening.
Hi.
Well, it is exciting to get to talk to you again.
This is Reba from Colville, and I'm listening to you on KCVL Radio.
Hi Reba, how you doing?
Oh, I'm doing great.
Where is that?
Where are you actually?
Oh, way up in the northeast corner of Washington State.
Okay.
And I was wondering, did you see the Aurora Borealis last night?
Uh, no, but I was on shortwave last night, and so I know all about the Aurora Borealis.
I know, if you go to my website, On the left-hand side, when you first get on the website, on the bottom where it says Home, if you click on Active, it will show you the charts.
And then you can go down to something called Today's Space Weather.
Click on that.
And go almost down to the bottom of that one.
I know this sounds complicated.
But then you can click on something called Auroral Activity Estimates.
And, uh, it's right now at activity level 7, which is extremely high.
Last night, it was at activity level 10.
And I looked at that, and I got on shortwave, and everybody had a polar flutter, you know, to their signal.
Ooh, it was really eerie, really eerie, and you could see, when you look at the estimates here, it shows a picture of the globe, and it shows how far down, in red and then yellow and blue, how far down the aurora is coming.
And it was clear that across the whole northern part of the U.S., We were getting slammed with Aurora.
We didn't see it this far south, but I was sitting here thinking, God, I wish I was up north.
I used to live in Anchorage, and what a show they must be getting.
Oh, it was really a show last night.
It was pulsating up in the sky, but it was higher.
The only time I saw it as high was a couple of years ago.
We're so close to it, we don't get the color.
And so I thought, boy, I'll bet people down south of us is they're really getting a show because the sky was clear and it was just spectacular.
So's all white.
Yeah.
I don't know how many people have ever seen it, but what it does, it can do it in colors or frequently white, and it'll just, it'll like, across the sky like that.
Oh.
And it's just the most amazing thing you've ever seen, and it was going on, and I've seen it in red, blue, green, purples, I've seen all kinds of cool colors in it, but to see it at all, in any form, is awe-inspiring.
Now, the other question I have is, You know, considering what must be going on with the sun and everything, I was wondering if you might be having Gordon Michael Scullion on soon.
What we're having is a lot of full, halo, coronal discharges from the sun, and that's what's causing what you're seeing.
It's awesome.
Would I have Gordon on again?
Inevitably, I will have Gordon on again, of course.
Uh-huh.
And could you ask, what is the gentleman's name you're having on tonight?
Oh, from James?
Nick Cook.
Oh, Nick Cook.
I am curious to find out.
In 1995, when we moved here, I and my daughter were coming back from town.
We live about seven miles southwest of Colville.
And we saw a white, well, it wasn't white, but it wasn't blue either.
It was a chrome, I guess I'd call it.
and there was no light coming from it, no light going up or down.
It was just this big globe, a big ball.
And it must have been about, I don't know, maybe four or five miles from our location.
And I looked at it, my daughter looked at it, and she said, Do you see that? I said, Yeah, it's just the moon. And she
said, Mom, the moon's over there.
And this was around the beginning of October. And you looked and the moon was over there.
And it was over there, to the right.
It was moving slowly, but all of a sudden it hit the edge of the Orange Rice Hill and it just shot right up.
It was the strangest sight.
So, I was just kind of curious if he has ever had anyone describe anything like that to him.
It was actually around Orb.
Listen to me.
You can rest assured, my dear, I will ask about that and a lot more stuff like that.
We'll see how much he's willing to say.
Thank you.
You're very welcome.
Take care.
We'll see.
You know, I wonder if somebody like this at Jane's... I mean, obviously, we're more likely to get Good information from somebody like Nick who works for James and doesn't work for the government, but still, you gotta wonder if there's things, you know, like that even he can't say.
We'll ask that.
A lot more about what flies in our skies.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
Good morning.
Art?
Yes.
Yeah, welcome back.
Thank you.
Where are you?
The pilots being able to carry guns.
What do you think?
You know, it's good news that common sense is finally beginning to prevail over the anti-gun agenda that's in this country.
Yay!
Now, if we could get a few more loyal Americans out there to join the NRA, we might stand a chance of preserving our rights in this country to bear arms.
Well, you know, I don't know if the NRA got this done.
I think it's just, you know, it's what you said.
It's just plain Common sense.
Well, but at the bottom line, oh, and one thing you ought to warn people about is that they're all going to be upset and concerned about bullets going through the fuselage and everything.
You ought to just let people know that these guys are going to be packed in glazer safety rounds.
Well, whatever.
But you know, sir, I mean, how does that compare to Uh, like, hitting the ground at 450 miles an hour.
I mean, yeah, sure.
You might put a hole in an airplane.
Worst case, you might even blow something out, right?
But, I mean, how does that compare to, like, running into a mountain, say?
That, or, you know, having planes shot down by the military?
There is always that, yeah.
I mean, you know, I've got to figure that the liberals around, or the socialists around the world are screaming at our liberals saying, why can't you get your people subjugated properly?
They've got to disarm us.
Well, the other thing about a lot of these liberals, you may remember that there was one very famous liberal in the Midwest who preached this anti-gun, all guns should be confiscated, that kind of crap.
And he had a burglar come to his door and the first thing he did was use a gun.
I mean, it's just, you know, they're... On the liberal side of things, thank you, they're... You know, they're as whacked out as anybody else.
I mean, the liberals on that issue are totally whacked out.
You have a right to protect yourself.
In fact, in the case of a pilot, or a co-pilot, or whatever, they've got a duty to protect themselves so they can get you home alive.
So what the hell with a bullet through the fuselage?
Big deal.
I mean it is a big deal of course, but I mean big deal compared to crashing and everybody dying.
So it is, in my opinion, simply common sense prevailing and I'm glad the administration's coming around.
It's about time.
In fact...
Because it is so really very good.
Here we go again.
Good afternoon, this is your captain speaking with just a little flight information.
Coming up on the left, we're going to be catching a glimpse of the Grand Canyon.
On the right, you can be able to see the Hoover Dam in just a few minutes.
We're flying at an altitude of 37,000 feet and our airspeed is 400 miles an hour.
A couple little facts here.
I'm packing a Colt King Cobra.
That's a .357 caliber firearm with a black rubber grip and a six-inch barrel.
Also, the co-pilot is carrying a Kimber custom defense pistol with all the bells and whistles you'd expect from a custom gun of that kind with an alloy frame and bevel treatment on the entire gun.
And our chief flight attendant, Roger, has a Ruger Bearcat 22 with a hand-fluted cylinder.
All three are capable of piercing body armor at a distance of up to 27 feet.
I can put a hole in human bone and flesh the size of the Grand Canyon, which, by the way, is coming up on the left-hand side of the plane, so just sit back and relax and enjoy the rest of the flight.
Common sense.
Exaggerated, but common sense.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
Good morning.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You've got it off.
Very good.
Fantastic.
Yeah, you know, I think we ought to issue a civilian pilot's Sidearm, something like a, uh, maybe a Walker Double Action, uh, semi-automatic, uh, 9mm, you know, this armor-piercing, uh, recording thing makes it sound a little scary, actually.
Like the guy said, frag rounds would work quite well, and we've always respected, uh, naval officers, and, uh... Yeah, well, that was exaggerated, sir.
They're gonna put the right thing up there, obviously.
Absolutely.
And I think we ought to get, like, you know, I think Remington and, uh, maybe Winchester, uh, the gun that won the West, and, uh, Smith & Weston, and, uh, some of these companies ought to get together and actually, uh, make a all-American, uh, civilian pilot sidearm, and I think all of them ought to have it.
You can't trust the guy that's flying your plane.
Who the hell can you trust?
Thanks, Art.
Welcome back.
Oh, thank you very much.
Yeah, I, uh, yeah, again, uh, to me, and I, I don't care how many people come forth and say, oh, it's good to put a hole in the airplane when they shoot.
It's gonna, it's gonna decompress.
Well, all of that is bad, but it's still better than hitting the ground at 450 miles an hour.
Well, you know, in which case you disintegrate.
So, we have on this side of the, you know, holding in our hand here, weighing it.
We have whole, possible hole in the airplane.
Even, even a possible explosive decompression.
Uh, although I doubt that.
I mean, chances are at least fair that you can live through it, you know, if a guy has to shoot.
Then on the right-hand side, uh, we have hitting the ground at 450 or 500 miles an hour.
525 miles an hour.
That's definitely, to my way of thinking, that's a, a more serious, uh, ease to the rock, easier on the air.
Hello.
How you doing?
I'm doing.
I, uh, I heard earlier you mentioned you have hitchhiked, uh, three times across country.
I did, yes.
Where did you leave and what was your destination?
Well, when I got out of the Air Force, I left March Air Force Base and went home, which at that time was Connecticut.
So, from California to Connecticut.
Three times, actually more than three times.
Then I hitchhiked back, I caught a flight for Okinawa.
Then I hitchhiked several times to Florida to my grandmother's house in Boca Raton.
This is amazing.
I mean, well, no it isn't.
You know, I was young then.
You know, I was going to say because I did.
I hitchhiked from Bakersfield.
This was in the early 60s.
I was in the Navy out there.
And, um, hitchhiked east from Bakersfield and eventually got on the old Route 66 and went through these little burgs like... Oh, that's how I went, too!
Yeah, Gila Bend, truth or consequences... Absolutely.
Right through the middle of Flagstaff.
Yeah, yeah, sir, you're exactly right, thank you.
I mean I did the old route 66 same way I went and you know I did that and I was young it was so easy
And now here I am look at me a luxurious coach You know lie on a couch while your wife drives, and you can't
make it past the border of New Mexico I
I I
Riders on the storm, into this afterbore, into this world withdrawn, like a dog with
a bone, it's after all, oh, riders on the storm.
you There's a killer on the road
His brain is wormin' like a jolt Take a long holiday
Let your children play To reach Art Bell in the kingdom of Nye from west of the
Rockies, dial 1-866-933-4333 East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222, or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
To reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator, and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
Bin Laden, that's what I always think about when I hear this song.
His type, Bin Laden, his type.
Killer on the road.
Brainless.
Squirming like a toad, right?
It's a killer out there on the loose.
Let your children play.
Bad times, you know, hard times we live in here and of course with the Iraq situation pending and all the rest of it and in the middle of all of that, here comes Nick Cook.
Nick Cook.
Here's an award-winning defense and aerospace journalist who, for the past 15 years, has been the aviation editor and aerospace consultant of the world-renowned trade publication Jane's Defense Weekly.
You know about that, right?
It's a Bible.
Of the international defense industry, his groundbreaking exclusive stories for Jane's have included reports on Russian secret weapons and a classified operation to rescue U.S.
hostages in Iran.
Oh, by the way, I'm sure we'll break it again, but the Area 51 photographs are back up on the link again.
They're awesome.
They're incredible.
And we probably shouldn't have them, but we've got them thanks to the Russians and then I guess the First Amendment in this country, right?
Anyway, Mr. Cook frequently comments on defense and security issues for the BBC News, ITN Sky News, CNN, BBC World Service.
His analysis was sought out by UK, US, and other world news media during the Gulf War and the 99 Kosovo conflict.
Here in the US, he's recently been interviewed by National Public Radio's Fresh Air and CNNFN in connection with his book, The Hunt for Zero Point.
Cook is a three-time winner of the prestigious Royal Aeronautical Society Aerospace Journalist of the Year Award in the defense business and technology categories.
Knows what he's doing, obviously.
In his 18-year career, has visited the world's leading defense establishments, has gained access to numerous top secret military facilities and bases in the U.S.
and the former Soviet Union.
His two-hour documentary for the Discovery Channel, Billion Dollar Secret, written and presented by him, detailed for the first time the secret inner workings of America's classified weapons establishment.
In other words, he's probably going to tell us stuff tonight that a government person
not in five million years would tell us coming up.
And now, we jump across this continent and then across the Atlantic Ocean for Nick Cook
who's in Great Britain somewhere or another.
Nick Cook, welcome to the program.
Hi, good evening.
Hi, good evening.
What is it there?
It's morning, isn't it?
The sun is just breaking over the rooftops of London here, yeah.
So you're in London?
Yeah, I am.
Well, I've always wanted to talk to somebody just like you, Nick.
I've always wanted to.
Jane's, of course, is an incredible publication, and anybody in aviation knows it.
I mean, it's like the Bible of everything that's going on that you guys can figure out, find out about.
How did you get in this business, anyway?
Well, um, I've always been interested in aviation, um, from a very early age.
It was just something that fascinated me, um, and soon after I left university, uh, I had a pretty bizarre degree, um, in Arabic, of all things.
Arabic?
I suddenly realized.
Actually, you know, in modern times now, a degree in Arabic, uh, You're never going to be out of work.
Well, I suppose if I, um, if I ever leave this business, there may be some call for my services in this day and age, unfortunately.
But, um, I kind of, uh, there was nothing I could think of at the time that I really wanted to do with this degree.
So I kind of figured, well, what is it that interests you?
And it was back to old aviation.
And I, uh... started writing for a an aerospace trade newsletter
and then uh... this is about uh... the early eighties
and in the mid eighties i joined a defense weekly and uh... really haven't have looked back since uh... since
then it's uh...
as you as you implied it's a fantastic job well uh...
why I mean that's some jump.
I mean here you pursue a big academic career in languages and you probably could have gone to work for the UN or something like that.
And then all this time you really want to be in aviation.
So you must have had some like background in aviation or as an avocation or something.
I don't know.
Something in your life that was always pointing you that way.
That's true.
My father was an inventor.
So, you know, I was used to growing up in a home where, you know, my dad was sort of dismantling hoovers on the kitchen table and trying to reassemble them into a hovercraft or something.
Oh, really?
It was always kind of that sort of background.
He didn't actually succeed in that, did he?
Well, I sort of jest, but he went on to become a hovercraft Designer.
He was one of the pioneers in this country.
Oh, okay.
Well, that answers it right straight away then.
So there it is.
I mean, that was really kind of the background.
As a child, I was kind of, you know, inculcated with this, both with a sort of an eye on technology, but also with a father who had a very inquiring mind.
So I suppose it was an inevitable, really.
You put those two things together, you've got aerospace and journalism, And off I went.
All right.
Jane's Defense Weekly is le creme de le creme.
I mean, it is the top.
It is what, like the Bible, it's what everybody wants to really know what, you know, is out on the edge.
That's what everybody reads.
Everybody knows that.
And you're quoted, Defense Weekly is quoted worldwide as an authority.
And so it's very prestigious.
But what's it like working for them?
I mean, must be, must be pretty neat work, Nick.
Well, it is a great place to work for.
I mean, I suppose with any kind of reporter's job, what any reporter really wants to be is on the road.
And I'm no exception.
I'm always happier when I'm on the road.
I mean, the office is, in a sense, just like any other office.
It's open plan, there are news editors, there are people screaming for copy, particularly on Fridays when it's deadline day.
But, you know, That's no different from any other paper.
I mean, where I am definitely happiest is when I'm out on the road, digging around for stories.
Aren't you sort of, in a way, like a high-class aviation paparazzi?
Well, I suppose so, without the kind of kick-down door element, I hope.
I've always believed in a kind of softly, softly approach to my subject matter and my interviewees.
But, uh, yeah, I guess in a...
But, but, but, but if the door, uh, Nick, is left open...
Yeah.
Uh, right?
Well, if the door's left open...
If the door is closed.
I mean, in this business, it's difficult to go around kicking them in.
Yeah, sure.
I don't know.
But I mean, if the door, I mean, like, if the door is there, it's like you try the doorknob, right?
Right.
Absolutely.
And the great thing about James is that, you know, when you turn that doorknob, people are not really very resistant to it on the other side, because it does have such a wonderful reputation.
It is this great magazine to write for.
Luckily, it is known throughout the world.
I mean, I've been in some really obscure parts of the world where, you know, you say James and it is like a passport.
You walk in and it doesn't matter whether you're talking to someone in China, Russia, the States, anywhere.
It gives you that kind of access, which is terrific.
All right.
Tonight on my website, even though we've wiped out the poor guy's website, we found this website, Nick, with these Russian high-quality photographs of Area 51, which is, by the way, I'm in Toronto, Nevada, adjacent to Area 51.
I've lived near Area 51 now for, I don't know, Better part of 15 years.
I know the area well.
Yeah, I bet you do.
And so tonight, interestingly, having you on, we've got these Russian photographs of Area 51, and you can see in some great detail, better than I've ever seen published before, the runways, the hangars, the buildings, the whole lash-up, which looks very modern and very much in use at Area 51.
What do you know, if anything, About this wonderful little base just across the hill from me here.
Well, obviously, I've studied it.
I've been past it.
I've sat on mountaintops and I've gazed at it.
But, you know, I mean, and I read a lot about it.
I've spoken to people who work there, but you know, it is, as everyone knows, a base that doesn't exist.
How much, Nick, have you been told by people who have worked there?
Now, look, I understand that you're private sector, Nick, but if I ask you anything that you really can't or won't answer, that's fine, but that's my question.
What have you been told by people who work at Area 51?
Well, the people who've been most eager to talk about it, to me, are people who've worked there in the past and who don't work there any longer.
I understand.
And they have been relatively open with me.
I covered the stealth story in the 1980s and there were people then, who were just beginning to emerge out of the woodwork, who were starting to talk about Area 51.
Now, of course, We in the business and many people knew that this space existed.
What we didn't really know was going on there and in my profession we were Absolutely fascinated to know what was happening on the stealth side.
You know, people around you were seeing lights in the sky they couldn't explain, couldn't correlate them with the kind of, you know, the aircraft that you can read about in a handbook.
And while you're writing, we wanted to know what they were.
Nick, they did develop, of course, the F-117 there, we all know that, but Uh, the kind of lights and the kind of behavior of those lights that people still see near that area don't have much to do with the F-117.
Yeah, those lights are definitely harder to explain.
I mean, I was there one time, it must have been about 10 years ago, and I saw the classic kind of golden orb that people say that they see.
And I've heard it said by people who hang out around Area 51 that sometimes you see what you want to see at Area 51 or around Area 51.
And my immediate reaction was, Actually, I was a little underwhelmed in a funny kind of way because I felt I started to analyze it.
I mean, this thing could have been a laser projection.
It might have been an approach light on an aircraft.
It didn't look like one, I have to say.
But, you know, these are the sorts of questions that you start to ask yourself.
I'm not the kind of person who immediately goes, that is something, you know, truly weird.
I have to have to look at it and analyze Really apply the skills that I have been taught or acquired over 15 to 18 years of journalism.
Meaning, even though you saw it with your own eyes, you're not prepared to say that it was some sort of anti-gravitic craft based on what you saw?
Well, it could have been.
I mean, actually, as it happened, when I saw it, I was only... I was at a relatively early stage, then, in my kind of... in kind of the whole anti-gravitic kind of quest, that ultimately ended up in writing the book Hunter Zero Point.
Right, and we're going to get to that.
I'm going to press you one more time.
The people that you talked to that worked at Area 51, Nick, did any of them tell you, straight away, That, in fact, there were craft there that they saw that apparently acted in a manner that would suggest they defied gravity.
I have never, no one has ever come forward and spoken to me about anti-gravity, specifically at Area 51.
Plenty of other people have, but you know, I always have to, I always find myself operating this kind of filter technique.
You know, who's the guy who's talking to me?
Does he have the knowledge?
Is he likely to have the knowledge?
Listen, but don't jump to any conclusions.
And I tend to take my opinion from a range of sources.
I never come to a judgement based on what any one person will tell me.
It's part, thank God, of the long-term nature of my job that I'm able To absorb this range of opinion.
And only after I've done that come to a conclusion.
Yeah, that's how intelligence works.
I mean, you take little pieces to the puzzle and you try and fit them together from many different sources, right?
Right.
It's what you do, too.
Absolutely.
Well, look, let me lay a fact on you, Nick.
Again, I live near this area.
And, I don't know, about 12 years ago, however many years ago now it was, Uh, my wife and I were on the way home, uh, here to Brum, Nevada, and, uh, my wife, you screamed out, there's something behind us.
I'm making a very long story short.
We stopped the car, got out, and, uh, looked up, and, uh, here coming, uh, toward the rear of the car was this large, extremely large neck, uh, triangular black object, um, Which was not flying, Nick.
I know what aerodynamic flight is.
You know, it was floating, is the way to describe it.
Floating, or defying gravity.
And it flew directly above our heads.
It seemed like about 150 feet.
The stars went away.
The moon went away.
And it didn't make a sound.
You could hear crickets a quarter mile away out here in the desert.
Didn't make a damn sound.
Just floated over our heads, Nick.
And floated out across the valley toward Area 51.
Now that happened to me, Nick.
Not something I wonder about.
Not something I'm not sure about.
Or, you know, that I imagine that I just saw what I wanted.
I couldn't... This was incredible and it happened.
Well, I'm very envious.
I'm very envious.
You know, I've heard about a range of these kinds of sightings.
I mean, you obviously had a very good one.
There was somebody else with you, you know, so you could actually talk about it with your wife, which really gives it this kind of Added credibility.
I mean, it's funny because I've seen things sometimes and I kind of wonder if I'm on my own, did I really see that?
But that's, you know, that that does fit in with a pattern of sightings art, which I find fascinating.
You wouldn't have wondered about this one, Nick.
I could have thrown a rock at the damn thing.
It was that close.
And it was just it was monstrous.
Now, all I can guess is it could have been some lighter than air aircraft, possibly.
Uh, with a propulsion system that I couldn't guess at, because it was moving, probably 30, 35 miles an hour, 40 miles an hour.
Not fast at all, Nick.
Uh, it was floating.
Now, now, it would, it would have to have some sort of propulsion system, even if it was lighter than air.
So, either it was defying gravity, or it was some new lighter-than-air something that was very, very, very stealthy and extremely large, and, you know, I give it a 50-50 probability.
It's either something we built, Or it's something from somewhere else.
I don't have the slightest idea, but it's off.
It's so seriously different than anything we have.
It's in one of those two categories.
I can't decide which.
Well, I think that's the key, which is not, and I try and do this myself, which is not to jump to any conclusions.
Whittle down the possibilities.
I mean, it's interesting when you talk about those kinds of triangular, silent, craft that people see.
I mean, one of the things which the Skunk Works was doing over at Palmdale in California quite recently was studying light-of-an-air craft.
They were doing it in secret.
Bits of information came out about it.
But, you know, that could, in a sense, slot into that pattern.
But, you know, the balance of probabilities to me says that it's not that.
It's something else People see these things, they conform to a pattern, exactly as you say.
It's that they're large, triangular, occasionally they have lights on them, and they don't make any noise.
There is nothing out there, you know, in James Orlowell's aircraft that conforms to that description at all.
Which gets, you know, which gets my attention, frankly.
Well, there is one out there.
I don't know whose it is, but there is one out there.
I absolutely guarantee you.
I mean, mine was early, a very early report, and I agonized about even whether to admit it on the radio, which I finally did with my wife.
I brought her here and made her speak to.
But since then, of course, there have been many, many reports of these triangular craft, and I'm sure you're familiar with them, aren't you?
Oh, absolutely, yeah.
I mean, there was a wave of sightings in Belgium, for example.
That's right.
And they described, multiple witnesses described crafts very similar to the one you described.
Nick, straight out question.
In your opinion, is anti-gravity real?
Recently there was, I don't know whether it was McDonnell Douglas or one of the big companies, Um, actually, uh, seemingly admitted and then later denied, I think, that they were working on anti-gravity.
I admit, might not have been McDonnell Douglas, but one of them, you know, Boeing or something or another.
And it was in the news recently that they were working on anti-gravity and working with a Russian scientist, and then they denied that, I believe, uh, recently.
What do you know?
It was James that broke the story.
Oh, okay.
I wrote the story.
Oh, good.
Then you really do know.
Yeah, what happened was we got hold of... I was doing a feature article for the magazine to coincide with this year's Farnborough Air Show, a big biannual event.
Um, but, uh, looked at what we call propellantless propulsion.
Um, propellantless propulsion is one of these, um, bywords for, uh, things like field propulsion or anti-gravity.
And, in the course of this research, I had heard that Boeing was interested, at the very least.
And I made a few inquiries, and, um, lo and behold, in the usual kind of, you know, uh, skulky kind of, uh, journalistic, uh, condition.
Yeah, kind of a brown envelope arrives through the doorstep.
And it's actually a 44-page presentational document on a Boeing proposal, nothing more than that, to work with this guy called Evgeny Podklepnov, a Russian who has actually been working in the anti-gravity field for about 10 years.
And he's developed something, he claims, called an Impulse Gravity Generator.
And what does that appear to achieve?
I mean, what do we know about it?
Well, what Podklatnov's original breakthrough, such as he claimed for it, was that by placing objects above rapidly spinning superconductors, materials that lose their electrical resistance at low temperatures, He was able to make those objects above those superconductors lose some of their weight.
Not very much, about 2%, but, you know, 2% in physical terms is a breakthrough.
Oh, it's monstrous.
I mean, it obviously says there is a way to affect Uh, or change the effects of gravity and you're spinning an electro, something's spinning.
I've heard a lot about this.
Uh, do you think that it's real?
Do you, do you think that, oh, this is a repeatable, uh, scientific, uh, real discovery?
Well, I'm going on a number of things here.
I'm going on the fact that I've met Podklepnov, and he is undoubtedly a sincere individual.
I'm going on the fact that I've spoken to people I respect in the aerospace industry.
I mean, amongst them, BAE, people at BAE Systems.
Um, which is our largest aerospace and defense contractor here, who invited Podklepnov over to the UK a couple of years ago to, um, to hear more about what he was doing.
So obviously they were interested in what he was up to.
Uh, and he, you know, Podklepnov's claims are significant and worthy of, uh, worthy of being investigated.
Well, Boeing wouldn't write up such a document unless they Pretty seriously imagined there might be something to it.
Is that fair?
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, it must be fair.
They were seriously interested in talking to Podklepnov, getting him over to the U.S.
if necessary, trying to replicate his experiments.
Uh, the impulse gravity generator, by the way, takes that same superconductor at its core and pulses a massive jolt of electricity through it to produce a what Podklepnov describes as a gravity-like beam, which is repulsive in its nature.
It repels away. So you can imagine if you could put that in a craft
and you could generate that beam for long enough you would have a fuel-less means of propulsion. You
would be able to levitate, you would be able to go places using that beam. Can you
know Nick that really sure does sound like what could you imagine could propel either a craft
like I saw or a craft like or seen at Area 51 that appear to have some sort of field around them.
There are so many reports, you know, of craft that hover and do things a conventional aircraft couldn't possibly do and they have a field or seem to have a field, a visible field about them.
And that sure sounds like that, doesn't it?
Well, I've heard about the field, and you know, going back to what we were saying earlier, if those triangular craft are not dirigibles, airships of some shape, way or form, then what are they?
And you have to ask yourself, I think, that if a guy like Podkarpov, more or less operating on his own, On a shoestring budget is able to do what he's doing.
Yeah, then what could Boeing do with all their... So, you wrote the article and then what was Boeing's reaction?
Well, they came down saying, they really watered it down.
They said it was just a proposal, which it was.
Um, but they said that they weren't, uh, working in the area, which is technically true, but they have been looking in the past, in fact, shown a great deal of interest in these so-called propellantless propulsion devices.
They were working with a guy, for example, in 1999 at their Phantom Works facility in Seattle, a chap, uh, called Robert Cook, funnily enough, no relation, Um, who, uh, claimed to have developed something, uh, which uses, uh, rotating arms to, uh, produce a, uh, a linear force from centrifugal force.
Um, this traditionalist would say contravenes, uh, Newton's basic laws.
But, uh, and Boeing was interested.
Isn't that sort of a long line of Dean Kamen's IT?
You know, that machine Dean Kamen invented that, uh, Uh, uses centrifugal, uh, devices and, um, I'm not really sure of all the technical details and, uh, gyroscopes and that sort of thing to act as though, to act in ways you couldn't imagine such a device would act in.
I mean, there's a, it's a cousin of, of it somehow, isn't it?
Well, it sounds like it.
I'm not actually familiar with that, but I mean, there are a number of, um, devices that are similar to this Robert Cook, um, device, but, you know, Cook Cook appear to be making real progress with this thing,
sufficient for Boeing to run some tests on it at their facility in November 1999. So, you know,
they have a history of, and I think, you know, it's commendable that an aerospace company should
show the bravery to try and explore these concepts.
Well, I mean, if they weren't, it would be crazy.
The only alternative is that we continue to use fossil fuel aircraft, piston engine jets, whatever, until the fuel runs out.
I mean, a company, a forward-looking company like Boeing and others, I would have to be looking into something like this.
They would just have to be.
I mean, in terms of R&D, they're not going to just keep working on the same old thing.
They're going to be forward-looking.
So it's unimaginable to me that they wouldn't be working on it.
Well, this is absolutely the point.
And we know that Boeing's not alone.
I know that other large aerospace companies, Lockheed Martin for example, is also interested in these kinds of concepts, exactly as you say, as you'd expect them to be.
Companies that turn over billions of dollars annually are not going to want to let that progress slip into nothing.
And another thing is... Or more worrisomely into the wrong hands.
Other hands than theirs.
Well, and that may be part of the problem here, which is that if these technologies, such as they are, or these ideas, are as radical as some people believe them to be, then maybe there is a very good reason why people would want to downplay these ideas, because they could proliferate.
They could proliferate into the hands of people we don't Like them, to have this kind of stuff.
Alright, now you have written a book called The Hunt for Zero Point.
Zero point, zero point.
There's a relationship between the anti-gravity technology that we're talking about right now, probably somewhere, and zero point.
There's a lot of people out there who don't know what this zero point energy is.
And so, since you wrote a book about this, maybe you could give us sort of like a 101 on what zero point is.
It's kind of, to a lot of people, it's like magic.
You know, it's something from nothing.
It's something from the energy from nowhere.
Or is it energy from everywhere?
In other words, what is, what the hell is zero point?
Well, the zero point field is Has been proven to exist.
In 1948, there was a Dutch physicist who postulated that everything around us, the air that we breathe, space, our bodies, are filled with a sea of energy.
Electromagnetic energy that pops in and out of existence relentlessly and infinitely, but on an almost indetectable scale.
but it is there and he theorized it back then his name was Hendrik Casimir and then much more
recently a test proving Casimir's theory showed that indeed this energy is out there and it exists
now there are two things here one is that we may be able to tap into that energy and produce
machines that produce energy from nothing you can imagine some people have postulated
machines that produce energy from nothing. You can imagine some people have
postulated... But it's not really nothing. It has to be something. It seems like
but but it's not really nothing it has to be something it seems like it's not well but it's
it's nothing, but it's not nothing. I say nothing and you're absolutely right.
not nothing is it say nothing and you're absolutely right it's not it's there there
It's not. It's there. There is this sea of energy and it's there. The problem is
detecting it is a little bit like putting a glass of water into a
swimming pool and then trying to isolate and find that glass of
water inside the glass once it's in the pool.
Can you give us any idea of what they theoretically believe it is?
I mean, are these some kind of particles?
Is it, uh... Yes.
These are electromagnetic particles that... And the interesting thing is here, is that they say that they are flashing in and out of existence.
Where did... My question is, what I think about in the bath sometimes is, where do they go when they're not here?
Yeah, in and out of existence. Now that's only from our frame of reference in this three-dimensional world, I would
presume.
If they flash out of existence, then we're beginning to...
I mean, theoretical physicists now talk about as many as eleven dimensions.
So is it possible that we perceive them as flashing in and out of existence?
They're simply moving into a dimension that we cannot yet perceive.
Well, that is certainly what some people who are working in the field believe.
and um as you say you know there is an exciting and emerging uh school of physics in in string theory super string theory which postulates these other dimensions and it is said it is said by some of these people that that gravity which is a force that Very, in fact, physics doesn't really have a handle on it.
I mean, I always thought it did.
I was taught in school about Newton and the apple.
I felt, I always thought that we knew what caused gravity.
No, we really don't.
I've asked the best scientists about that, and some of them have theories, but that's kind of all they are.
They don't know if it's a push or a pull, or even why exactly it is.
It appears to be related to mass, but they can't get much beyond that.
Well, one of the ideas behind the Zero Point Energy field business is that maybe disturbances in the field could give rise to phenomena that we don't really, physical phenomena, we don't really understand.
Forces like gravity, for example, and inertia, which is an object's innate resistance to acceleration.
It's exciting to me that suddenly here are an emerging breed of physicists and theorists who are saying, let's look at this and try and see if there is a relationship between some of these phenomena we don't understand and this zero-point energy field.
Okay.
Zero-point energy, if it's real and if it can be harnessed, then everything we now know Is trash.
I mean, the cars we drive, the airplanes we occasionally now get in, not frequently enough anymore for their continued financial safety, but everything that's motivated by petrochemicals is old hat.
In other words, it would change everything in the world as we know it.
It would probably allow the anti-gravity we've been talking about To be very realistic, if you have that kind of power source, because of course, the kind of thing the Russian is working on and Boeing was thinking about, that requires power.
And so if you have a power source like this, oh, gee whiz, Nick.
Gosh, the oil companies are out of business.
Yeah, I mean, I wonder about that.
You know, somebody said that, you know, stones didn't go out of business when the Iron Age came in.
I don't think it would be as overnight as that.
And besides, you know, we really are, I get the feeling we're on the cusp of something exciting here.
The breakthrough is still sought, and people are working on it.
But the interesting thing is, is that in the meantime, we've got people like this Russian Podklepnov, we've got many others out there, John Hutchison, for example, I know he's been on your program.
Oh, yes.
Who are showing effects in the environment for which conventional physics has no real explanation.
Right.
And so, you know, it would be prudent of us, I think, to take a look at those physical phenomena which have no explanation and marry it to what the theorists are saying about zero-point energy and taking a look at it.
And then wondering about the possibilities.
Yes, I mean, I think, given that we are a hundred years now after the Wright Brothers first flew, But actually, the aeroplane is pretty much as they conceived it.
Wings, tail and engine.
And in my field, you know, I'm an aerospace journalist.
I know that over the past 30 years, Incremental improvements at best, really, is what we have got out of aviation.
You spend billions of dollars at Boeing and Lockheed and other places to make an airliner fly that little bit faster.
But it's only that little bit faster.
And if we're going to go on, if we're going to go to the stars one day, maybe, we've got to be thinking about a breakthrough.
And I'm, you know, and this is what's exciting about this field.
Well, but I'm sure, but I'm sure we are.
And I'm sure that Our government and its darkest agencies with budgets beyond everybody's wildest dreams, if they're not working on this, then what the hell are they doing?
I mean, they've got to be working on this.
So, do you get any hints, any rumors, any sort of under-the-table news that there might be something going on here and elsewhere in the world?
Well, when I finally decided to sit down and write Hunt for Zero Point, it was because I was coming across a series of clues which, when you follow them, actually begin to add up to something meaningful.
The thing that actually set me going was somebody placed on my desk an article taken from a mid-fifties popular science magazine.
Quoting numerous individuals from recognizable aerospace companies of the day, saying that they were on the verge then of breaking this gravity.
uh this this gravity taboo and they were going to uh with a little bit of money a bit of support from the government within four or five years they would they would crack it that was now that was in the 1950s right absolutely so and then suddenly and mysteriously they kind of fell silent on it and what i find what i found interesting about that was that it parallels In some respects, what bomb scientists were saying about the atomic bomb in the 1930s.
So, you know, it didn't take a rocket scientist, if you'll forgive the pun, to look at the evidence and go, well, let's take a look then.
So you've got clues then, right?
Right, there are a series of clues... Alright, Nick, hold it right there.
We're at the top of the hour.
And those clues could eventually lead to all kinds of things.
Like time travel.
That's way out there, I know.
But when you get to zero point, and you get to the manipulation of gravity, and interdimensional sort of hopping in and out, Well then, you know, you're almost there.
You're almost at the manipulation of time.
I'm Art Bell.
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