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Aug. 1, 2002 - Art Bell

02:54:33

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	Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere In Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 1st, 2002.
	From the high desert and the great American southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be across this great world of ours and all the time zones out there, I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Here I am, Art Bell, filling in for George Norrie.
	Thank you, George.
	Here I am once again.
	How and why am I here and what's been going on?
	Everybody's asking me.
	Well, as you know, I have a bad back.
	One of these days, I think I'm going to just post the results of my MRI, my latest MRI, for you to see.
	And then those of you who are so medically inclined can take a look.
	It's L4 and L5 and they're both reaching out and abutting The main nerves, which are, you know, like S1.
	Technically, S1, which is your sciatic.
	And when it comes out, when this material comes out and touches S1, I have... I enter a different dimension, actually.
	I have these back spasms that curl me up like a dried prune that I am.
	And they don't let me walk, and they don't let me do much of anything, actually, except sit there in pain.
	That's not it.
	And over the last couple of weeks, I've had recurring times when that has happened again and again.
	And I was getting better, for example, on Tuesday.
	This is kind of an interesting story.
	Now, you see, all five, the bottom of your back, just above your butt, supports all the way to the human body.
	Whether you're sitting or whether you're standing, it supports all your weight.
	Or not.
	So, anyway, I was feeling better, and I went back to my doctor for an appointment on Tuesday, and I thought I'd be cute, sign in a little early, about 30 minutes early, you know, because you go by doctor's time, right?
	Not patient time, doctor's time.
	And so I thought I'd be cute and sign in a little early.
	Well, I sat there and thought I'd sneak in early.
	Anyway, I ended up sitting for two hours waiting for the doctor.
	Now, bear in mind, I was feeling better.
	After sitting there for two hours, my back went into spasms immediately.
	By the time I saw the doctor, I was all locked up again.
	So, there went another day.
	Now, here I am, I can't guarantee when I will be here and when I will not be here, that's guaranteed by my back.
	You know, I have several really super unattractive options that have been given to me with regard to my back.
	I can get these shots into the spine, I'm told, but I'm told they will only last a short while, a week, a month.
	Even a few months.
	But you know, there's certain dangers in that.
	You get out and do things you shouldn't do.
	And besides that, this stuff that they shoot in your back will always be there.
	When you're buried, if they were to dig you up, this stuff would still be there.
	And you've got to keep getting these shots.
	And so that's one option.
	The other option, of course, is surgery.
	And I am warned by my doctor that I'd be out of my mind if I did that.
	That most of his patients that he sent off to neurosurgeons with my specific condition, bear that in mind, have come back about two weeks later and said, everything's wonderful.
	And then a year later, they're worse than they were in the first place or crippled.
	And the odds of success are maybe 50-50.
	And the odds of failure are 50-50.
	And so it's like throwing dice a little bit.
	And so trying to decide when to alter your life and do this kind of surgery is not an easy thing to do and pretty much you don't do it until life has become so unbearable that you can't do anything else or you just can't walk.
	So that's kind of what's been going on with me.
	Now let's get to the matter at hand tonight's program.
	A lot of stuff to catch up on that I want to catch up on with you.
	Headline tonight, the FBI and Postal Service.
	This is really interesting.
	The headline is, Anthrax clues sought at Maryland Department.
	FBI and Postal Service agents wearing protective gloves conducted a second search today at the apartment of a former Army researcher considered a, quote, person of interest, end quote.
	In the investigation last year's deadly anthrax mailings, the FBI gained a search warrant to look inside Stephen J.
	Hatfield's residents, according to two U.S.
	government officials, FBI Director Robert Mueller said, quote, we're making progress in the case but I can't comment on ongoing aspects of the investigation.
	Hatfield, he said, is not a suspect and no physical evidence links him to any of the letters.
	But you gotta wonder about a story like this.
	Why I wonder, would the FBI release a story that becomes the number one story for the hour?
	Would this man's name, in connection with this, if there's no physical evidence or anything else that connects him to the case?
	So, when you look behind the story, you've got to wonder, why are they releasing this now?
	Why?
	He's not a suspect.
	But they released his name.
	That's a hell of a thing to do, huh?
	You know, if he's not a suspect and there's no evidence, boy oh boy oh boy.
	So there's more to the story than meets the eye, as there is with so many stories like this.
	They released this for a specific reason.
	Israeli troops led by 150 armored vehicles rolled into Nablus and entered the narrow alleyways of the Old City early Friday.
	All in retaliation, apparently, to a bombing in Jerusalem that killed seven people a couple days ago.
	Yesterday, was it?
	Teenage girl, boy, there's been a lot of this going on.
	Two teenage girls, abducted at gunpoint early today from a lover's lane, were rescued.
	Here's a good ending for you for a change.
	About a hundred miles away from their point where they were kidnapped.
	The kidnapper crashed his getaway car, was shot to death by sheriff's deputies.
	The county sheriff, Carl Sparks, said that he was certain the kidnapper was minutes away from killing the girls, and had chosen a remote location in the high desert.
	So, too damn much of that going on lately, for sure.
	Iraq!
	Iraq is asking the UN for an arms meeting.
	Now, gee, why would they?
	In a surprise movie, Iraq on Thursday invited the Chief U.N.
	Weapons Inspector to Baghdad for talks.
	It said, good lead to the return of inspectors after nearly four years.
	Now, let's think about that.
	Why would Iraq invite the inspectors back, or even invite the Chief Inspector?
	Talk about inviting the inspectors back.
	Well, because we've been rattling our swords about Iraq.
	In fact, here's An interesting story.
	Iraqi build-up near border puts Kuwait on heightened alert.
	Kuwait has drafted an emergency plan in coordination with the U.S.
	as officials report an Iraqi build-up near the Kuwaiti border.
	That sounds familiar.
	On Monday, the Kuwaiti Daily reported that authorities have canceled all vacations for civil defense employees until further notice.
	His paper said the move is part of a heightened preparation for an Iraqi attack.
	The Kuwaiti cabinet was presented with what was described as an emergency plan to counter an Iraqi military strike on the sheikhdom over the next year.
	Kuwaiti officials said the plan warns the sheikhdom can expect to be the first target of an Iraqi attack either prior to or during any U.S.
	military campaign to topple the regime of President Saddam Hussein.
	The Kuwaiti plan called the Iraqi military buildup near the Kuwaiti border A plan discussed on Sunday by the cabinet is meant to respond to both the internal and external threats from the Saddam regime.
	So, we've rattled our swords, and now they're saying, well, let's come and have the Chief Arms Inspector come back and talk about having all of his troops come back and inspect our stuff.
	Not chance.
	more and more and there is so much more on get new you
	with coast to coast a m At this point, I'm not happy with the direction that government is taking us.
	I'm happy with the fact that Americans are beginning to wake up, and stand up, and do what they have to do.
	And shout, and scream, and blog.
	And I think that's critical.
	And I think that's what's going to save the Republic.
	I think in the long run, as we go through all this stuff, it's the people who will save us.
	And our country will remain strong.
	Coast to Coast AM sure sounds great in the middle of the night.
	But you know, you don't have to be nocturnal to enjoy this amazing show.
	The Coast Insider is your key to a normal life.
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	Get a new view of the world with Coast to Coast AM.
	First of all, I want to just thank you for bringing everyone out here to Cornucopia.
	Just phenomenal knowledge.
	I don't know of anyone else that I've ever listened to at radio that just fills my brain and stimulates me.
	You know, I was listening to the show and I thought to myself, do you think, George, the common citizen such as you or I really has any hope towards the future of any privacy or anything else?
	I think we do.
	I think eventually so many people will see the light.
	See what you see.
	See what I see.
	That eventually they're going to say enough is enough.
	And I think that we do have a future.
	And we're going to win in the long run.
	It's going to be bumpy along the way.
	It's not going to be easy.
	But we will get there.
	That's my take.
	And you know what?
	As long as I can continue on the airwaves and tell people this, I shall.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from August 1st, 2002.
	2002 there was an occurrence while I was away
	that not enough attention was paid to and it happened in the skies over our capital in Washington
	well Maryland What was that bright light in Maryland, in Maryland's sky?
	The Air National Guard, in this story, confirms the 113th Squadron scrambled over Maryland.
	WTOP, that's Washington, has learned that residents near Andrews Air Force Base were shaken from their beds early Friday morning by some very strange activity in the air.
	That'd be a week ago, right?
	Incredible, absolutely incredible, said Rennie Rogers of Waldorf.
	Just before 2 in the morning, Rogers said he saw a huge blue ball of light streaking across the sky But it was military jets that really startled him.
	In other words, a pair of F-16s got on its tail right behind it.
	And he's not the only one who saw it.
	Several people called WTOP Radio reporting seeing a bright blue or orange ball moving very fast, being chased by jets.
	By the way, Rogers said there was no smoke coming from the object, no flashing lights, said that it was smooth and eerily silent.
	Now the Air National Guard confirms they scrambled the 113th squadron.
	They're investigating and they're in contact with NORAD and it was said that this object left the F-16s in the dust.
	And they do, military officials do acknowledge that the F-16s went after, quote, a track of interest, end quote, plotted on radar.
	But they said everything was fine and they went home.
	Everything was fine and they went home and that's the end of this story as far as they're concerned.
	Everything was fine and they went home.
	Now let me get this straight.
	In this post 9-11 era When we're watching every inch of our skies, an object that can make F-15s, excuse me, F-16s look like ants crawling across a piece of paper, takes off, is plotted on radar, and at the end of the whole thing, they say, oh, but everything was fine, and they went home.
	Referring to VF-16s.
	Hmm-hmm.
	Right-o.
	So I thought more attention ought to be called to that incident.
	Pretty significant incident in ufology, I would certainly say.
	The following is from James.
	You know, James, Defense Weekly.
	I wonder if anybody out there caught this one.
	Anti-gravity propulsion comes, quote, out of the closet, end quote.
	Say what?
	Anti-gravity propulsion comes out of the closet.
	Boeing, the world's largest aircraft manufacturer, has admitted it is working on experimental anti-gravity projects that could overturn a century of conventional aerospace propulsion technology if the science underpinning them can be engineered into hardware.
	As part of the effort, which is being run out of Boeing's Phantom Works Advanced Research and Development Facility in Seattle, The company is trying to solicit the services of a Russian scientist who claims that he's developed anti-gravity devices in Russia and Finland.
	The approach, however, has been thwarted by Russian officialdom.
	The Boeing drive to develop a collaborative relationship with the scientist in question has its own internal project name.
	It's called GRASP.
	G-R-A-S-P.
	Gravity Research for Advanced Space Propulsion.
	And that's from the incredibly reliable Janes.
	So there you have it, folks.
	They're working on anti-gravity.
	Well, what a surprise.
	And Boeing's working on anti-gravity.
	Oh my, my, my, my, my.
	Goodness.
	A weird story that caught my attention.
	Entitled, Army Wives Killed at U.S.
	Base.
	You know about that one, right?
	Military is investigating a disturbing series of murders, apparently involving U.S.
	Special Forces soldiers who recently served in Afghanistan.
	Four soldiers, all based at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, are accused of killing their wives.
	The military, insofar as... and boy, by the way, this came from the BBC, of course.
	Where else?
	Domestic source?
	Yeah, some domestic sources had it, but this comes from the BBC.
	These soldiers, just coming back from Afghanistan, four of them, at one place, killed their wives.
	Of course, they're going to say coincidence, but that's a pretty big coincidence, I would say.
	Wouldn't you?
	So I'm wondering, heartily wondering, about this story.
	Heartily wondering about this story.
	What could have happened in Afghanistan?
	Would the U.S.
	government have done anything, or could it have been some sort of something they picked up over there, something they had in common in Afghanistan that would have caused this incredible thing to occur?
	I mean, you talk about the world of coincidences, four of them coming back.
	And then doing this.
	So that smacks of the sixties, doesn't it?
	And I'm not saying that any sort of experimental anything went on, but it did once go on in this country, didn't it?
	Where they gave civilians and military personnel hits of acid, LSD, mind control experiments in America.
	So is this bad?
	I'm not saying so, but one has to wonder a little bit, doesn't one?
	A Big Brother.
	Here comes Big Brother coming to L.A.
	Cameras to help keep South Los Angeles alleys clean.
	This is something that just hit the press tonight.
	Police, fed up with trash filled alleys, have unveiled the first of eleven special motion sensor cameras that they hope will deter illegal dumping and, as well, graffiti in Los Angeles.
	A powerful mounted camera in Watts is designed to snap a picture of an... and then audibly warn, get this, anyone spotted loitering in a junk-filled alley, said police on Wednesday, the steel encased camera designed to withstand a bullet, ha ha ha, good thing, plans a recorded warning that police hope will act as a deterrent.
	Here's where it'll go.
	Bob, this is the LAPD.
	The recording says.
	We have just taken your photograph.
	We will use that photograph to prosecute you.
	Leave, now!
	Similar cameras are planned for use in South Los Angeles locations, some mounted near abandoned buildings to discourage squatters.
	So, what do you think, folks?
	Stop!
	We have your picture.
	We'll use it to prosecute you.
	We are the police.
	We have you on tape.
	You're dead meat!
	We'll be right back.
	The Drift Back in Time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	More, somewhere in time, coming up.
	May, on a damp day, away.
	May, on a damp day, away.
	Jenny was me, she always smiles for people she meets On troubled drives, she had another way to use her life
	Music blew, I just don't want to get to you What can I do, I'll never remember the time with you
	you You think I should be happy with your money and your name?
	And hide myself in sorrow while you play your cheating game?
	Silver threads and golden needles, killing them And I said I found my sorrow in the warm flower wine.
	But you think I should be happy with your money and your name
	And hide myself in sorrow while you play your cheatin' game Silver thread, golden needles, and I'm mad with you
	Can't I dare not drown?
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from August 1st, 2002.
	Boy, it feels good to be back, I'll tell you.
	By the way, one more medical addendum.
	My doctor doubled my dose of anti-inflammatories.
	I take a very, very strong anti-inflammatory, and now I'm taking twice as much.
	Coming up at the top of the hour is Kai Michelson.
	He's a guy who built all the rockets for the movie October Sky.
	Remember that?
	Awesome movie.
	I'm Eiffelson.
	top of the hour tonight.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 1st, 2002.
	West Nile virus is sickening people far earlier this summer than usual, spreading so quickly.
	It's hit 33 states.
	I mean, remember when it was just in New York?
	And now it's hit 33 states as far west as South Dakota.
	And they say it's going to reach California this year or next.
	Nobody knows how bad the mosquito-borne illness might get, although A rapidly growing outbreak among 32 people in Louisiana began a month earlier than West Nile has ever struck in the USA.
	Big worry indeed, but it's clear the virus first detected in New York City a mere three years ago has become a permanent summertime threat in most states.
	So apparently in the next year or two it will be everywhere, including where you are.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Good morning!
	Are you Art?
	Yes.
	Hello Art, how are you doing?
	Wonderful, this is Teresa from Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.
	Hi, oh my god, I can't believe I'm talking to you.
	I'm so happy.
	I've been trying to get through you for 8 months.
	I just started listening to you the last 8 months.
	I'll make this as quick and as fast as I can because I know how fast things are and so forth.
	A customer came in.
	I work strictly nights at a gas station, and you get me through my night shift.
	I thank God for you.
	Thank you for your station.
	And I was mentioning to him about an episode I had here at the station.
	He said to me, call Art Bell.
	I said, to be honest with you, I said, who the hell is Art Bell?
	And he said, an awesome guy on the radio.
	You've got to hear him.
	I turned you on once.
	Alright, let's hear the episode.
	You had to show him how to pump gas?
	episode that okay what happened to me was a fellow came into the gas station
	he couldn't pump his gas I had to instruct him make a long story short
	show him how to do it. You had to show him how to pump gas?
	Pardon me? How old was this somebody?
	This gentleman was about what he looked like he was about 40 years of age
	40 years of age, and you had to go show him how to pump gas?
	I had to show him how to do it.
	Obviously.
	First I went on the intercom, told him how to do it, lift the red lever, push the button, blah blah blah.
	He did not know how to do it.
	I had to go out and get frustrated, like, haven't you ever pumped gas before?
	He said no, no big deal.
	So he pumped his gas, came into the gas station, he took out And you've got to understand something here.
	I've got this all on tape, okay?
	Proceed.
	Pardon me?
	Proceed.
	He took out what?
	Okay, he took out his wallet, alright, to pay for his gas.
	In his wallet was a whole bunch of old 1857 money.
	Bills, coins, Canadian old 1857 money.
	And I said to him, where did you get all this money?
	He says, I earned it.
	This is what I earned my money.
	And I said to him, okay, well it's Not this time and date.
	I said, but you have to pay me $20 in your gas up to date.
	So he did that.
	No big deal.
	He gave me a $20 bill, paid for his gas.
	How was he dressed?
	He was dressed... Contemporary?
	Yeah, just very kind of scruffy, to be honest with you.
	And I was really fascinated with this money.
	He had a whole bunch of it.
	He had it in his pocket, in his back.
	And I even said to him, you should be having this in a bank safe.
	You should be carrying this around.
	And when I saw him, saw the money, I thought to myself, you know, like, this is weird, of course.
	And I said, where are you from?
	He says, well, you know, he says, I want to show you something.
	So I stood back because he was starting to freak me out at this time.
	This is like a quarter after 12 at night.
	So I'm here all by myself.
	And he stood there and he put two pens.
	He says, you have two pens.
	I said, yeah, I do.
	Right here.
	Put them on the counter.
	And he says, this might shock you a little bit, but my nose might start to bleed.
	And at this point, I'm thinking, my God, I got a psycho here.
	I stood back from the counter, and I'm not kidding, I got this on tape.
	All of a sudden, the pens started rising up off the counter.
	He went into this trance, and all of a sudden, these pens went up off the counter and started spinning and dropped.
	Okay, this freaked me out.
	Whoa!
	Now, you have all of this on tape?
	I have this on tape, Art Bell.
	I have this on tape.
	I had my customers wanting to buy the tape.
	My manager wanted me to do whatever I wanted to do.
	Now, wait a minute.
	Isn't this dewalded?
	Doesn't this tape belong to the store?
	Well, yes, but I mean, like, she said to me, I made a copy of the tape.
	I made a copy of the tape.
	I have a copy of this tape.
	Can you send me a copy of the tape?
	You want me to send you a copy of the tape?
	Absolutely!
	Okay, this is just not it, okay?
	But I need a copy of that tape.
	Okay.
	Now... No problem.
	Listen, uh... I want you to send this tape to my network in Oregon.
	Okay, I've got a piece of paper right here.
	Uh... Do I tell you what else to do?
	I don't know what their address is.
	Pardon me?
	Go ahead, what else did he do?
	Okay, then he said, do you want to see something really freaky?
	I said, okay.
	And then he stepped outside the door.
	He said, I can't be around anything electrical.
	And I'm thinking, my God, I'm dealing with a quack.
	And I'm standing here, and all of a sudden, I'm not kidding, I've seen this on TV, where people love to compete themselves, but I'm not kidding you, this man rose like a foot off the ground.
	Then he came down, and at this point, my heart's beating a thousand miles a minute, and I says to him, Where are you from?
	Who are you?
	He had this very strong accent.
	He said to me, I'm a time traveler.
	He said, have a good day, Teresa, and walked out the door.
	And Art, I'm about to cry here, but I swear to God, I did not have my name tag on.
	Oh, Teresa.
	I did not have my name tag on.
	Teresa, all right, do you have a pencil or a pen?
	Yeah, right here.
	OK.
	I want you to send this to 540.
	to 540 East Villas Road, I'm sorry, 540 East Villas Road.
	OK.
	I don't know.
	That's V-I-L-A-S.
	V-I-L.
	No, no, no.
	V as in Victor.
	I-L-A-S.
	Road.
	Road.
	Sweet C. Sweet C. This is a long damn address.
	P.O.
	Box 3130.
	P.O.
	Box 3130.
	3130. Central Point, Oregon. Central Point, Oregon.
	Oregon, Oregon.
	9-7-5-0-2.
	9-7-5-0-2.
	Read it back to me.
	Okay, I've got 540 East, Villas Road, Suite C, P.O.
	Box 3-1-3-0, Central Point, Oregon, 9-7-5-0-2.
	You got it.
	You got it.
	billis road we he
	he'll box three one three zero central point oregon nine seven five zero two you got
	you got all right uh... you uh... have encountered a time traveler
	do you think i did Yeah, I do.
	Are you serious?
	Well, of course.
	Let's put it this way.
	I'm as serious as you are.
	If what you tell me is true about the pens, and you have that on tape.
	He got me on the tape with my head over to where he was, the pens all started levitating, and all of a sudden my head went back when I started backing up, and you could see the pens floating.
	Then if you're serious, I'm serious.
	We need very, very much to get this videotaped.
	If you get the videotape to me, I can convert it to a computer AVI file or something of that order that I can then put up on the net for everybody to see.
	Would you get permission for that?
	Okay.
	I'm just afraid... No, of course I get permission.
	Alright, alright, alright.
	Do whatever you want with it.
	I have no problem with that.
	Are you a computer person?
	Do you have a computer?
	Yes, I do.
	You do?
	Are you capable of creating an AVI file?
	No, I'm not.
	Then you get it to me, and I will do that, and then include your phone number, and I will have you back on the air when I do.
	Okay.
	I mean, that's an incredible, incredible story.
	Really?
	I didn't think it was that much.
	Of course, I was flipped out and everything, and I had my customers, especially Dino, his name is.
	Unless you've got some sort of Canadian version of David Blaine.
	Believe me, that's an incredible story, and you encountered a time traveler, and that's one of the most interesting subjects Uh, in my life.
	So, uh, I want that tape pronto.
	Okay?
	Okay.
	I don't have a problem with that.
	Alright, thank you.
	I'll look forward to it.
	You take care.
	Well, there's a way to begin it, huh?
	Yikes!
	That really does sound like a time traveler to me.
	How about you?
	Had to be instructed how to use a gas pump.
	Well, I suppose if you came from an age where the only motivation around getting around was horses, well, then you wouldn't much know how to use a gas pump.
	Of course, you've got to figure the guy drove up in something, right?
	Better know something about cars.
	Weird story.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello, sir.
	It's really hard to top that one, but, you know, stranger things have happened.
	And they do every day.
	Yeah, well if you watch, there was actually an episode on the Twilight Zone of that same exact incident where a guy from the Civil War was found in the desert by a driver buying a car.
	Remember that one?
	Yes, I do.
	Yeah, that just rang a bell.
	I think all kinds of things open and close, and I do think there are time travelers, and I think we experience them from time to time.
	That's true, yeah.
	Things pop in and out, and there's nothing we can do about it except just learn from it, I guess.
	But the main reason I called is to say, well, first of all, welcome back.
	Nice to hear your voice again.
	Thank you.
	And I was I was reading.
	I was with some person who understands Spanish a little better than I do.
	And as you know, the UFO phenomenon is really prevalent in Mexico.
	And there's a lot of investigators out there doing a lot of research on it.
	I know.
	Look, they have Collisions with UFOs in Mexico.
	I mean, documented collisions.
	Planes taking off from Mexico City have collided with UFOs.
	Yeah, yeah, I've read that.
	It's sort of interesting that they're scared of us around here because we shoot at them with FDI.
	Well, we definitely chase them.
	Witness the story over our capital just a week ago, right?
	F-16s chase a plane.
	Yeah.
	Or chase a UFO.
	The UFO takes off.
	It's described as having no conventional A propulsion system, it's described as leaving F-16s in the dust, and then we end up by the US Air Force telling us that, you know, everything was okay and so they went home.
	Yeah, I'm surprised that they even got that far on the air, but like, I've heard that STI, we do push, we do shoot one across the bow to let them know that they're not welcome here, but in Mexico, a lot of people there are pretty curious and And the UFOs do hang around there quite often and the UFO investigations really move forward really to a point in Mexico where they're getting a lot of good information.
	I found exactly a location, an Area 51 base in the Soviet Union.
	And there's an Area 51 in the Soviet Union where they have five damned UFOs that they've been reverse engineering.
	Well, wouldn't it be the damnedest thing if because we shoot and chase UFOs, shoot at them, That when contact eventually comes, it comes to some formally third world nation somewhere, that all of a sudden has this technology dropped on them that makes them king of the hill.
	And it's all because we shot at these things, like Stephen Greer says.
	That's exactly right.
	And we're pretty much ahead of everybody else in the UFO investigation field since World War II.
	Documenting with the Foo Fighters and, you know, the so-called gremlins that... Yeah, I know, but you just think about it for a second.
	Imagine a headline.
	I don't know how it would read.
	Bangladesh dictates terms to world.
	Something like that.
	Bangladesh takes over world, you know, welcomes technology that the U.S.
	would not allow anywhere near its shores without a threat of A terminal bodily harm.
	And so they go to Bangladesh or something and that's it for us.
	These are the Rockies, you're on the air, hello.
	Hello?
	Yes, hello.
	Uh, yes, uh, you know, I'm really concerned about this, uh, I say rallying about, uh, against Iraq, and I think that, uh, people have got to start using their own head, because the Democrats and the Republicans and the corporate media, which interlocks with the military-industrial corporations in this country, always, uh, bipartisanly support, uh, wars, uh, uh, interventions that cause the deaths of millions of people abroad and hundreds and thousands of Americans.
	You know, and all this said, All this said, sir...
	The fact of the matter is, he is, as fast as he can, putting together the deadliest germs to try to... Not so.
	Well, hold on.
	Not so.
	Yes, it is so.
	You know that... It absolutely is so, sir.
	Scott Ritter has said that is nothing but propaganda.
	He was one of the most hostile... Sir, that's a load.
	You're dumping a load on us.
	Give me a break.
	That is absolutely not... No, it isn't, sir.
	The UN... No, no, hold it, hold it, hold it.
	The UN... Let me speak.
	Well, I'll let you speak when I want to.
	The U.N.
	has confirmed beyond any shadow of a doubt.
	I mean, we have parts and pieces that the U.N.
	brought back of nuclear... Absolutely not.
	That is absolutely... Most of the U.N., the U.N.
	has just... Well, ECOWAS has recently said that these claims have been false, and these are the most hostile people who seldom get any attention on our media.
	Oh, I'm sorry, goodbye, total load.
	This is not true.
	There have been very well documented examples of the Iraqi nuclear and biological programs, which were well underway during the last war and have been going ever since, full tilt, I might add, at the expense of the Iraqi people who have not been eating.
	At times when we've allowed them to sell oil, that money has not gone where it was intended.
	It has gone toward The manufacturer of weapons of mass destruction, which are specifically designed to kill us, Israelis, and us as in the U.S.
	So, you're just flat out wrong about that.
	And I understand your bias.
	You hate all the powers that be, the military-industrial complex, which we were warned about by Eisenhower, and the power structure in this country and every other country.
	uh... that is attempting to wage a war on terrorism and I understand uh... exactly where you're coming from is just a load.
	That's all, total load.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air!
	Hello, Art.
	Hello.
	Yeah, my name is Walter.
	I'm from Mount Rainier, Washington.
	Yes.
	Yeah, I'd like to ask you about your experiment where you get everybody together and concentrate on one thing.
	And I'd like to see if you could have everybody concentrate on asking God to show up.
	You know, God and the crew, Jesus and Mary.
	Are you so sure you really want that?
	Well, if we're in the category of you better be careful what you ask for because uh... the next time there are certain prescribed things that are going to occur next time he rolls into town and uh...
	So you just might want to be real careful about that.
	Well, if we're not afraid of him, maybe he'd show up.
	So, in other words, to you, you wouldn't mind hearing the horns blow?
	Sure.
	Oh, really?
	We've got to meet him sooner or later, right?
	So he might as well be sooner?
	In other words, you would have the horns blow, the walls crumble, the world come tumbling down, the return of God.
	He's coming here to save us all.
	The dead beginning to rise, everybody else, a few people anyway, getting sucked up, the rest of us left around here to watch The carnage?
	He can only do good if he shows up.
	Well, I know, but that's somewhat subjective, you've got to admit.
	I mean, why wish that to occur sooner than later?
	Why not let it be on his timetable?
	Because I don't want to have to die before I get to meet him.
	Understand?
	I know, but after you die, time is but a twinkle.
	I mean... Well, we won't know until he comes here and tells us.
	You're not going to be languishing for some great thousands of years of what we call Earth time.
	After you die, sir, it's going to be a flash of a boom, like that.
	You'll meet your maker.
	I mean, why rush it?
	Well, because we need him.
	We're in sad shape down here.
	As witnessed the story from Los Angeles with those cameras, huh?
	Well, yeah.
	To put it mildly, right.
	I think UFOs would show up all over the place.
	After all, there was a star that... Wasn't there some mention about lots of strange things in the sky prior to that moment when Gabe Sworn lets loose?
	Well, we shouldn't be afraid of it.
	I mean, we've got to meet it if it exists.
	There was a star that showed the wise men to Jesus when he was born.
	That's documented in history.
	So I think UFOs would be everywhere.
	Well, I'm sure they would be.
	But it would be, you know, the horsemen of the apocalypse.
	It would be the crumbling walls.
	It would be the end of everything.
	And why wouldn't you want to just wait a little bit longer for all of that to come down?
	It's drastic.
	Well, you talk to any religious people.
	I mean, if you ask me, a bunch of seals have already been broken.
	Just look at all the signs around you.
	They're everywhere.
	Well, if you get everybody together and ask God to show up, It's worth a try.
	That would be the last thing I would ever do.
	As you know, I've ceased these experiments.
	Anyway, they went too well.
	If something like that can go too well, these experiments have gone too well.
	And I've learned that who am I to tamper?
	Who are we to tamper with the nature of everything?
	In fact, I once played Some horns.
	And people would call me and say, you know what?
	You better not play those horns.
	Because you're liable to get exactly what those horns are calling down.
	So be careful about the horns, Art.
	I've tried to be careful ever since.
	I am Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	This is Premier Networks.
	That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
	I, I, I, I, I. All those tears I cry.
	I, I, I, I, I. All those tears I cry.
	All those tears I cried, I, I, I, I All those tears I cried, oh, oh, I
	Baby, please don't go Well, I've read the letter you wrote me
	And I'm gonna be high as a kite by ten.
	I miss the earth so much.
	As a kind I've been I miss the earth so much
	I miss my wife Lonely out at sea
	On such a timeless flight I miss my wife
	I miss my wife you
	you And I think it's gonna be a long, long time
	The driving down brings me round again to find A lot of men, they think I am at home
	Oh no, no, no I'm a rockin' man
	Rockin' man Burning out his shoes, I said we're gone
	And I think it's gonna be a long, long time The truck sound brings me round again to find.
	I'm not the man they think I am, no, no, no, no.
	I'm a rocket man, rocket man, burning out a new love every night.
	Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids.
	Premier Networks presents Art Bell, somewhere in the heart of the city.
	So he said, Rocketman!
	tonight featuring coast-to-coast AM from August 1st, 2002.
	Rocket Man is actually how he answered the telephone when I called a couple minutes ago,
	so I thought I'd pull this one out.
	So he said, Rocket Man?
	His name is Kai Michelson.
	And here's a little info on Kai.
	Speed and danger have always fascinated Kai Michelson since attempting to fly as a child to get to his folks by leaping off a hill with two ironing boards attached to his bike.
	I never thought of that.
	Descending his best friend off the top of Toronto's soaring CN Tower, Kai has broken a multitude of records and almost every bone in his body Performing daring feats of all sorts, rigging hundreds of stunts and special effects with his diversified background.
	Kai regarded as one of the most creative stuntmen in the television and motion picture industry today.
	A native of Minnesota, his professional career began by the age of 15 when he got behind the wheel of the first race car.
	For the next 15 years, he went on to racing motorcycles, dragsters, rocket-powered cars, Snowmobiles ease at 72 national and international speed records.
	He's become the highest-paid drag racer in the country.
	In addition, Kai also pioneered the new development of rocket-powered engines.
	Racing one of his specially designed vehicles, Kitty O'Neal raced 1,320 feet in only 3.72 seconds.
	Oh my God!
	Officially traveling at 396 miles an hour in 3.72 seconds.
	Kai's penchant for rockets expanded well beyond the world of racing.
	He put his rocket engines on everything from roller skates to canoes.
	His work in this area led to the nickname Rocket Man and a coveted file in the Smithsonian for his developments to hydrogen peroxide rocket racing.
	Do you remember that wonderful movie, October Sky?
	Oh God, what a great movie that was.
	He built all the rockets for October Sky.
	His most memorable stunt, one that resembled his childhood flying fiasco, took place at the world's tallest freestanding structure, Dara Robinson.
	Hollywood's number one stuntman was featured in ABC's 60-minute special titled, The World's Most Spectacular Stuntman.
	Kai was responsible for designing all of those stunts.
	After countless tests, weather interferences, and sleepless nights, Kai sent his friend off the top of the CN Tower in Toronto to catch Dar's 1,200-foot fall as he neared the ground.
	Kai included a 1-8-inch steel cable.
	How dangerous was Kai's most spectacular stunt?
	Well, less than one minute after Robinson safely touched the ground, the wind snapped the cable.
	He formed a company in 1969 called Hollywood Stuntmasters.
	With over 30 years experience as a stuntman, stunt coordinator with special effects, he's worked with shows like Live and Die in L.A., Stick, Drop Dead Fred, Sharky's Machine, Purple Haze, Catch Me If You Can, The Bridge Scanners 3, 17 times on That's Incredible Live, The World's Greatest Stunts, The Ultimate Challenge, Super Stunt 1 and 2, World's Most Spectacular Stuntman, America's Most Wanted, Unsolved Mysteries, also a member of the Stuntman's Hall of Fame, Currently, Kai is the Program Director and Launch Director of Civilian Space Exploration Team, CSXT.
	The CSXT team is going to be the first of a number of civilian-based groups that are going to attempt to send a rocket into space and have it return to Earth safely with a full recovery.
	Kai Michelson coming right up.
	Sound of jet engine.
	Say coast to coast AM with you anywhere on your mobile phone.
	Coast-to-CoastAM.com can be conveniently accessed on your iPhone and most Android platforms, which means that you are never without your Coast-to-Coast AM fix.
	If you're a Coast-to-Coast Insider subscriber, you can listen to the show live in the middle of the night, or previous shows 24-7.
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	Keeping up with Coast-to-Coast AM has never been easier with our Coast Insider service.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 1st, 2002.
	Well, that's some introduction to Coast to Coast.
	Here's Guy Michelson, Rocket Man, huh?
	That's how you answer the phone, right?
	Yeah, that's it.
	How are you doing?
	I'm doing alright.
	You know, take me back a little bit.
	I was reading this and I tried a number of schemes to fly when I was young.
	All of them failed.
	Some of them tragically.
	Some of them with continuing implications of broken bones.
	But I never thought about two ironing boards.
	I used umbrellas.
	It was awful.
	It didn't work.
	But ironing boards, that's on a bicycle yet.
	That's pretty good stuff.
	Do ironing boards provide any lift whatsoever?
	Not a lot.
	Then we added a jump.
	How I first started that, my father had a book called The Book of Colliers, and in there was a picture of a man sitting on top of a wooden rocket with a leather helmet on.
	And then the next picture below it said, and he lived to tell about, the question is where was he going?
	This is back in the 20s when really the only motors he even had was black powder.
	And so I got inspired with rockets and well, I was young at the time and so the next best thing to flying was to put my mom's ironing boards on my bicycle and pedal down the hill where I went to school as fast as I could.
	Well, again, did you get any In other words, as you got going faster and faster, could
	you detect any lift at all?
	Only when I hit the jump.
	The jump?
	Yeah, well, yeah, I think because we built a little curve into the hill that we went
	off of.
	But, yeah, you know, that was it.
	In other words, you were going down a hill.
	Oh, yeah, down the old hand pedal.
	And then so then at some great rate of speed, you sort of went over a lift, launching yourself.
	Yep.
	Young boy.
	And my mom bought me a, or I got a chemistry set from Santa Cruz.
	Santa Claus and that started the whole deal.
	I eventually learned how to make black powder.
	I thought it was a great movie, and you really built the rockets?
	Yeah, Homer Hickman, that was his life story, and well, a number of the rocket boys, but yeah, I built the Miss Riley and some of the other smaller rockets.
	As a matter of fact, I have some of the original rockets right here.
	Oh, you do?
	Mm-hmm.
	One of my life's dreams, and you know, I understand that to actually To launch rockets, you've got to get licensed.
	You've got to, like, pass tests and get licensed to do that, don't you?
	Yeah, I'll tell you what, it's more red tape.
	You know, you hear of a lot of people that want to launch rockets in the space, amateurs, and we consider ourselves as an amateur.
	I mean, we have a lot of experience, but...
	You know, you have to go through the Space Transportation Department, the FAA, you have to go to the BLM, the Bureau of Land Management, you have to go through an environmental impact study.
	Alright, well then, you obviously are going to be the person that I can ask who will be able to answer this question.
	I don't necessarily, even though I'd love to launch rockets, I just want to get a really big rocket and, like, put it on my front lawn.
	Well, I'll tell you what, if you go on my website, I sell a rocket that's 20 feet tall called the Big Kahuna.
	Oh, that's my baby.
	The Big Kahuna?
	The Big Kahuna.
	And it's on your website?
	Yeah, it's on my website.
	How much is the Big Kahuna?
	900 bucks.
	Oh, it's sold.
	I mean, could the Big Kahuna sit majestically on my front lawn without licensing?
	Oh, yeah.
	It's when you'll send it up is when the problems start.
	Actually, the problems really don't start until you really go into space.
	Above 100,000 feet is when you start dealing with... We'll get to that.
	We'll get to all that.
	But I mean, I could buy a big Kona, and would it come, and I'd have to put it together, I suppose, huh?
	Oh, yes.
	It's a kit.
	How long would it take me to put together?
	Actually, I'd put together one in six hours, but I would say, you know, a couple days off and on, you can put it together.
	It's a project, I mean, it's a project.
	Would the big cone sit out there reasonably well or would it need like a gantry?
	You'd have to have something to hold it up, yes.
	I'd have to have a gantry.
	Or a launch rod.
	So if you get the big kahuna, does that come with a gantry?
	No, you'd have to build something.
	You'd have to build your own gantry.
	Yeah, or a base, some kind of a base that you could put it on also.
	You mean like a concrete base?
	Yeah, right, a concrete base.
	I was just figuring, Kai, that just having it out there on the front lawn would keep my neighbors straight.
	Well, I have one on the roof of my house.
	On the roof of your house?
	Oh, yeah.
	It's been out of gap for you for years.
	It's like a vocal point.
	I'm going to do it.
	I'm going to do it, Guy.
	Alright, so then you actually sell rockets?
	Sure.
	Oh.
	Yeah, that's Rocket Man Enterprise.
	We also sell rocket kits and things like that.
	And you know, amateur rocketry is really a great hobby.
	You know, we're a little bit above that with our course, with our space shot stuff, but there's got to be 15,000, 20,000 people that belong to a couple of organizations here in the United States.
	One is NAR and the other one is TRIFOLI.
	And one of the neat things about both these organizations is nobody's ever been killed in 15 years, you know, launching rockets.
	Speaking of getting killed, Kai, there's another fellow I've interviewed twice now in Oregon, calls himself Rocket Man, or other people call him Rocket Man, and he intends to launch himself into space.
	Well, actually, not into space, but into a very high altitude and then a very near space.
	And then return, and he's building this rocket.
	I mean, he's got pictures on his website.
	Do you think this guy is going to kill himself?
	Uh, he's never going to launch that rocket.
	You don't think so?
	No.
	You know, he has not dealt with FAA nor the Space Transportation Department.
	He claims that he might not.
	Well, if he doesn't, let me tell you something.
	It's a $100,000 fine.
	Well, you know, he's wealthy.
	Well, he's going to need that to get him out of prison, also, because it's also a prison term.
	Well, really?
	Yep.
	Yeah, I mean, that's serious.
	I've seen that project.
	I wouldn't go with the hydrogen peroxide that he's talking about.
	No?
	Why?
	He's changed the, well, because of the way the propellant in it doesn't produce enough power compared to a solid motor.
	And the hydrogen peroxide weighs, I think, something around 13 pounds per gallon.
	The specific impulse is off on it, so it's not a real good way of doing it.
	And also, the peroxide itself, it's hard to get, hard to store.
	I mean, I've messed around with hydrogen peroxide motors for years and years and years, so I've got over 700 firings of hydrogen peroxide motors.
	Oh, so they do work?
	Oh yeah, they do work, sure.
	I'm assuming that he's going to ignore the government, and he made Certain sounds, if you read between the lines, sounded like that's exactly what he's going to do.
	He's just going to launch.
	Well, I wish him luck.
	I'll tell you that because, you know, it'll be a piece of history.
	It's a heck of a project.
	I mean, my hands off to anybody that tries it because it's a tough deal.
	Well, I mean, let's face it.
	People have done these things, you know, in defiance of authorities previously.
	People have climbed buildings.
	You've done all kinds of stunts, right?
	Yeah, I've been there.
	Done that, and then have the police waiting for you on the other end?
	Yeah.
	Well, we started talking a little bit further out about our project we just launched in June.
	We had to scrub because of the winds of the Black Rock.
	We'll talk a little bit more about the federal government.
	You'll find out it's a pretty tough deal.
	Well, that's what this fellow up in Oregon is saying.
	It's a tough deal, and he might as well just go ahead and do it and accept the consequences, and it's a once-in-a-lifetime thing, so he's going to do it.
	The question is, do you think he's going to live if he does it?
	Is he going to live or is he going to die?
	Well, I'll tell you what, he better have a pretty good test program, because I myself, I'm willing to bet any amount of money with anybody on that deal that he will never do it.
	And I wish him luck, but I just don't believe he's going to do it.
	When he really gets right down to doing it, I don't think he'll do it.
	I think he'll sell a lot of toys by the time it's over with, but launching that rocket, I don't believe it.
	I looked at the design a number of times when he first started, and he wasn't even close.
	He's gone through a lot of changes.
	Oh yes, yes.
	In the right direction, too, by the way.
	I wish him luck.
	I'm just telling you, without being a stuntman, without really laying your life on the line, you really, really don't know about it.
	I mean, you look at Evel Knievel.
	He is a stuntman.
	He's been around for a long time, but when he climbed into that rocket, I want to tell you something, he was scared.
	He had every reason to be scared.
	You don't know if you're going to be alive in the next couple of seconds.
	Are you referring to the one where he made the jump that didn't go?
	Yeah, the Snake Canyon.
	Snake Canyon, yeah.
	He came down about midway, right?
	Yeah, but you know, if that was done, that would probably have been the easiest and most safe.
	If done right, it would have been the easiest and the safest jump he ever made.
	Usually, stunt people aren't taking as much of a personal risk as they would have the public believe.
	In other words, they've usually tested this kind of thing out Test and test.
	Test and test, right?
	Over and over and over.
	So what went wrong at Snake Canyon?
	Well, they didn't test that particular rocket.
	Actually, the fellow that built the rocket motor itself was a pretty sharp guy, but the vehicle design was horrible.
	I mean, I saw that vehicle and I just kind of shook my head.
	The fact is that Evo did jump into that, and he did push the button.
	My hat's off to him on that.
	And that took a lot of guts to do that, but you know, he stuck his neck out there many, many times in your life.
	Now, knowing as much about rockets as you do, you would not have done that.
	Oh, you might have.
	I would have done it with the propulsion system, but not the vehicle, yes.
	Well, what would you have used?
	Oh, I would have built a vehicle much different than that.
	The thing where they ran into problems, I understand, is they had a deadman switch.
	What he was doing, he had a lever and he'd hold his arm forward.
	And if he was to pass out, of course, his arm would come back and deploy the chute.
	Well, when you get about 5 G's put on you or more than that, there ain't no way you'd be holding your hand out in front of you.
	And what happens to the rocket motor lift?
	Well, it was steam.
	It was actually steam that took the motor.
	His arm came back and the parachute opened up.
	I see.
	So, it's not that it didn't necessarily work.
	It's that they didn't think about 5Gs in his arm.
	That's right.
	Actually, he came real close to going across the canyon.
	The wind blew him back.
	And I'll tell you what, pulling that parachute was the most dangerous thing he ever did.
	Well, I would think landing, or maybe crashing more likely, would be even more dangerous.
	In other words... Well, you know, you have someone with a roll cage type in there, and I don't know if he's falling at 15 feet per second, but I would assume that that would be, so that's relatively nothing.
	I mean, guys crashing cars at 200-300 miles an hour all the time walk away, so... Well, you'd give him big points for pushing the button.
	Yeah, I had it to evil.
	I know evil.
	I had it to him, you know?
	What is it that would make somebody do something like that?
	I mean, is it a total disregard for... Since you do it, you explain it to me.
	I mean, is it a disregard for life?
	Or is it just... Is it like narcotic, you know, that you've just got to keep putting your life on the line?
	What is it?
	Well, it's like that spinning saw blade that, you know, you're told don't touch or don't touch the hot stove.
	Yeah?
	It's kind of the same deal.
	Well, I dare you.
	And there is a little bit of that, but I'll tell you, the stunts out there right now in this day and age are very well thought out and very well engineered.
	Yeah, but even all that said, I still want to know, really, is it that... I mean, I just cannot contemplate Well, I have done things like that.
	But when I was much younger, I was dumber.
	I was much dumber then.
	And I did some things like that.
	And how old are you now?
	I'm 63, but I'm a pretty young 63-year-old man yet.
	63?
	So in other words, you've done this right up until the age when most people begin to notice that they are mortal.
	Yeah, I'm still going.
	Well, I'm lucky I have a young wife.
	That helps.
	Well, I don't feel like I should ask why, but why?
	Well, to keep up with me, I just have a tremendous amount of energy all the time.
	I mean, I'm going all the time.
	I've always got four or five things happening around my life.
	How young is your wife?
	My wife is 31.
	31?
	Yeah.
	Uh, you're just into taking all kinds of chances, aren't you?
	Yeah, what can I say?
	Well, we've been married for some time now, so it seems to be going pretty well.
	I'm pretty blessed to have the wife that I do have.
	And by the way, when you finally saw October Sky, were you as moved by that movie as most everybody else was?
	Very much so.
	I've seen it at least ten times.
	Very much so.
	I've seen it going on probably ten times.
	Alright, Kai Michelson, hold it right there.
	Most of the rockets in October Sky, what a movie that was, and he's planning to launch a rocket into space.
	And I've got to go look at the big kahuna.
	For years, I've wanted to put a really big rocket right out on my front lawn.
	And I didn't know if I'd need a license for that, but I guess it's like a gun, it's not loaded.
	There's nobody around here who'd know that.
	It's so cool out there.
	So that's what I'm going to be doing, I guess.
	Building a rocket.
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Through the night, like a freight train.
	Right here.
	The trip back in time continues, with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	More, somewhere in time, coming up.
	ago Took a look around me with a window
	With a little girl in a Hollywood bungalow Are you a lucky little lady in the city of night?
	Or did you not alone think your city at night?
	City at night Like she did one thousand times before.
	Don't you love her ways?
	Now tell me what you say.
	Don't you love her as she's walking out the door?
	All your love, all your love, all your love, all your love, all your love is gone
	A single lonely soul of a deep blue creed, seven horses seem to be on the mark
	All your love, all your love, all your love, all your love is gone
	Yeah, don't you love her?
	Now, we take you back to the past, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Oh, I've got to ask real quick.
	Hey, Kyle, uh, the front of your website there, that rocket, where it says Rocket Man, is that Big Kahuna?
	Um, no, you've got to dig into that.
	All right, all right.
	Stay right there.
	You'll see different models in there.
	All right, we'll go to Big Kahuna in a minute.
	I've got to see that.
	Yeah, that's going in my front yard, no question about it.
	Can't be on the mark.
	Sound of explosion.
	But now, we take you back to the past, on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	Music.
	Once again, here's Kyle Michaelson.
	Alright, Kyle, I'm on your website, and I see where it says, like, rocket kits.
	Yeah.
	Is that what I click on?
	Click on it there, and you'll see the big kahuna in there.
	Alright, which one's the big kahuna?
	I see, from left to right, purple, sort of reddish something or another, red, then... It's blue and yellow, if you click on it.
	If on the left-hand side you go in, there's hybrid, dart, DR Hero, Firefly, Skyhawk.
	Enter developed, let's see, I'm trying to...
	Where do I actually click on these?
	I see all these different rockets here.
	Oh, if you click right on to that, it's in blue, light blue.
	Light blue.
	Dark blue and a light blue on top of it.
	Okay, well, I'm going to keep trying.
	I'll keep trying because I want to see this thing.
	All right, I'll just keep trying.
	All right, look, you attached, I guess before you built rockets, you built bombs?
	Boy, yeah, I probably shouldn't talk about that.
	I had a chemistry set when I was young.
	Nowadays, you can't talk.
	Nowadays, you can't even think pipe bomb.
	Back in the 50s and 60s, kids played with that kind of stuff and it was no big deal.
	But now you have a lot of people out there that want to hurt people.
	It was no big deal to make things like that.
	Well, see, I tried to build rockets, and I build bombs.
	Because you probably didn't have a nozzle big enough.
	Actually, a rocket is nothing more than a controlled explosion.
	You know what I use for fuel?
	What?
	Ohio blue tip matches.
	Oh, yeah!
	What I found out, though, is that when you're packing them into the body of the rocket, they hit each other.
	And when they do?
	You know, the entire thing goes off.
	I don't want to say over the air the right way to do it, but you were right on the right track.
	Oh, it produced a wonderful thrust, actually, except usually my nozzles destroyed themselves, and then on occasion when I built a nozzle that wouldn't destroy itself, then it was a bomb.
	Yeah, you need some ceramic nozzles, You and the same, uh, like a lead, you know, like a lead pencil, a graphite is actually the ideal thing to build the nozzles out of.
	Really?
	Yeah, that'll withstand the heat, yes.
	Mm-hmm.
	If only I had known.
	It would have saved the limb of my mother's, anyway.
	It would have saved the rug in her living room.
	Now, you put rockets on all kinds of things, like bicycles, you put, wheelchair, you put rockets on a wheelchair?
	Yeah, it's on our website.
	There's some place, we build a twin-engine rocket-powered Harley.
	Snowmobiles, I mean, a number of rocket cars.
	Why would you put rockets on a wheelchair, though?
	Oh, I built a special wheelchair.
	If you look at my website, it's in there someplace.
	It's an aluminum monocoque wheelchair.
	It's a pretty cool piece.
	Did somebody actually... Yeah, me.
	You?
	Yeah.
	How fast can a wheelchair go?
	Well, I've gone over 75 in it.
	Over 75 miles an hour.
	Pretty scary.
	In a wheelchair.
	Yeah, in a wheelchair.
	With a parachute coming out the back.
	I got a small R7 chute on it.
	In fact, I'll tell you what, if you watch Ripley's, believe it or not, you know like when they're in between the commercials and they come back and they show a part of that, you'll see me in that wheelchair.
	Really?
	They've used that graphic vendor for a long time.
	I was on there.
	Well, I don't know, like two years ago or something with that rocket powered wheelchair, but you'll see me actually on there.
	Why did you do that?
	Well, I tell you what.
	I like rockets, and I found out if you put a rocket on anything, it'll go faster.
	That's the bottom line of it.
	Oh, well, sure.
	Like I say, we've made a lot of different rocket motors through the years.
	Did you ever see that Urban Legend thing about the guy who put the Jato rockets on?
	Yeah, it's not true.
	It's not true?
	No.
	As a matter of fact, there's a show called the Urban Legend, and they just recreated that stunt.
	I put a bid on it, but I was a little high on it, so I didn't get it, so somebody else got it.
	You mean, so you get a bid on stunts?
	Yeah, sure.
	That's how it works?
	In other words, they say, look, we want somebody to put rockets on this car and crash it into the side of the mountain, like this urban legend, and then you get the bid on that?
	Right.
	First off, that motor has approximately 1,000 pounds of thrust.
	For like 15 seconds thereabouts, that won't give you the kind of speed in a 3,000 or 4,000 pound car.
	But I will tell you, there's a guy by the name of Bobby Tatro, he's passed away now, and Walt Arfons that built a car called the Wingfoot Express.
	It had 24 Jato bottles on it, and it went just under 500 miles an hour at the salt flats.
	If you look at my website, you'll see it in there.
	Yeah, 24 Jador.
	Out of a matter of curiosity, when you're like in a car and you're just about to push the button on a rocket motor, what goes through your mind like just in that split second before you go ahead and do it?
	Well, I'll tell you what, your heart's pounding and you know it's dangerous and it's kind of like eyeballs in and eyeballs out.
	You accelerate so hard That it hurts, and then the parachute deploys at about 13 Gs, reverse Gs, and it's scary.
	Years ago, there was a number of rocket cars around the country running drag strips, and a number of people were killed, unfortunately.
	I knew every single one of them.
	Well, you've got to know, when you press that switch, this could be it.
	The end.
	And you know, we were talking about the other rocket a little bit ago.
	One of the main things you have to have is stability once it launches.
	Like all the military and stuff like that, or NASA, all their rockets, they all have these small guidance rockets and gyros and things that stabilize.
	And our premier is SpaceShot 2002, for example.
	That rocket's going to go 500 miles an hour in just under a half a second.
	Those G-forces that you need to actually stabilize that rocket, those G-forces would kill you.
	That's the bottom line.
	So, in other words, you've got to be able to... That's what the problem was for the fellow in Oregon.
	He was very worried about this launch phase.
	Right.
	He should be worried.
	I wish him luck.
	They were talking about launching this coming or last March or whatever and I bet a couple of my friends there's no way he's going to.
	I heard a story that you saw apparently some junk rocket being trucked out of Edwards Air Force Base.
	Did you really stop the driver and pay him off and take it home?
	That's the one I had on the roof of my house.
	The interesting part of that is I thought it was a Phoenix missile.
	And actually it was off of the SR-71, which is the fastest plane that we built.
	It was capable of going well over 3,000 miles an hour.
	They also had another plane that was just like it.
	It was made to carry this rocket.
	That rocket is the one that was coming out of Edwards Air Force Base.
	I tracked the guy down.
	I chased him down.
	I reached in my pocket.
	I pulled out $275, $300, whatever we covered up.
	Brought it down a dirt road, covered up with cardboard, a bunch of tumbleweed.
	I went back to Los Angeles, picked up my race car trailer.
	And brought it back.
	I wrapped it up in cardboard and sent it home on Western Airlines.
	Can you imagine what would happen if I did that in Asia?
	Yeah, oh yeah, sure.
	Wait a minute, what was this trucker going to do with the rocket?
	Well, what happened, they had bought all the scrap out of Edwards Air Force Base.
	I mean, there was steel paints and braided lines and door regulators, and they just bought this whole lot.
	And that was sitting on the top of it.
	When I saw that, I thought I was in heaven.
	So in other words, they were going to probably melt it down for scrap?
	Oh yeah, that's what the government does.
	And so you bought the thing, you hid it, and then...
	That's the one that's been sitting on top of my roof that I've mentioned for a long time.
	So this came off an SR-71?
	Yeah, that's not exactly the number.
	It's called YDF.
	They built one with a bomb bay door in it.
	But that was a very top secret project back then.
	And, you know, I had some people stop by and talk to me about it.
	Yeah, I can imagine.
	Well, you know, the thing is, is, you know, the government, they've done it many times.
	They've, I mean, you know, people have come in and bought computers and stuff like that from other countries, and all kinds of space hardware has been sold.
	I imagine a lot of people have asked you if the rocket on your roof is active.
	I've heard it.
	Yeah, years ago I used to tell the kids, well, maybe the 4th of July or something, we'll kind of... I always thought of putting some special effects and some sparks and stuff.
	I know the propulsion system is out of it now, but all the brain and electronics are still in that thing.
	I'm going to restore it one of these days.
	A friend of mine told me it should be in the Smithsonian.
	Really?
	Yeah, it's a very, very rare rocket.
	You've been involved in a lot of movies, haven't you?
	Yes.
	The movie industry came to you.
	How did all that happen?
	I started racing cars at a young age.
	You just start meeting people.
	Later on, because I dabbled in the business, I got hooked up with a fellow by the name of Donald Robinson.
	A friend of mine, Jim Deese, who makes parachutes and stuff, he said, you know, you two have got to get together.
	We got together and we decided to do the biggest stunts that were ever performed in Hollywood.
	At the time, the only thing you really saw were movies like Bullitt and stuff like that.
	You really didn't see high falls, fire gags and the stuff that you see on the screen now.
	We developed the descenders and the accelerators for jumping off large buildings.
	When guys were jumping 30-40 feet in the cardboard boxes, our jump, over three hundred and ten feet into an airbag that we made
	specifically for him.
	Actually, what was it with this thing you did with Dara off the highest building in Canada or something?
	Yeah, the CN Tower, yes.
	Now, I was trying to figure that out.
	A one-eighth inch steel cable...
	Now, why would you jump off?
	I mean, you see people jumping with bungee cables.
	Now, I understand that, because bungee, you know, pulls you back up, theoretically, and then bounces you, but a steel cable would seem like it'd just rip off your foot and you'd crash.
	Well, you're attached, so you have a very good harness that's on you, first off.
	And the eighth-inch cable, yes, if I hit the brakes too hard, it would snap like a fish line.
	But, I mean, that's what made it a stunt.
	That's what made it death-defying.
	That's why we sold to ABC.
	Yeah, but how does a steel cable stretch It doesn't.
	There was a cam set up.
	It was built into this device where the brake would start coming on easily.
	But there's a whole big story behind that.
	You know, what really happened there and how we finally pulled it off.
	Just give me the capsule version.
	I mean, it says here the wind Broke the cable like a minute after he hit the, well, landed.
	Yeah, that's true.
	That's true.
	It did happen.
	The wind?
	The wind?
	The wind itself.
	You've got to realize at that point, where was that?
	It was about 1,700 feet of cable out.
	It was hanging over the side and the wind itself, it snapped up on top.
	It came down like a million bull whips.
	This thing was snapping the pavement and chipping the... actually marble is where the water is.
	It's all different there because of the ballpark there now.
	But they used to have this pond that was around there.
	And this stuff was dancing and snapping.
	I'll tell you, if we were still standing there, we would have been all cut in half.
	I mean, it was a scary, frightening thing.
	And what did Dora have to say about all this?
	I mean, after...
	Well, you've got to realize that Cassidy Crosby said to him right after he did the stunt, he says, well, what do you think is different?
	What do you think?
	How was it?
	He says, I thought I was going to die.
	Because he really thought he was going to die.
	I can tell you a little bit about that.
	That night before the jump, I went up to his room and I said, Dara, how do you feel about this stunt?
	He said, Guy, I don't know.
	And so I said, I'll tell you, because he was my best friend at the time, and I told him, I said, Dara, I'll tell you what, I'll go up there tonight and shove the equipment over the side of the building.
	He said, you do that for me? I said, you're my buddy. I said, it's not worth it.
	And he says, well, I'll think about it. So the next morning We met down at six o'clock in the morning to rig the
	harness up and nobody in the whole team said nothing It was very very quiet. We put the harness on and balanced
	him up We went up this elevator, and when we were taking him up the elevator, I actually felt like I was taking somebody to his death and death row.
	It sounds like the crew thought he was going to die, too.
	It was a scary deal.
	So anyway, the CN Tower's big curved building up on top, and the director Hollers action and Dar and I start coming into the frame of the camera and before we got there, Dar grabbed me by the shoulder and he says to me, Kai, if I bounce, I want every camera out there busted.
	I don't want to be on the front page of nobody's paper.
	And I says, Dar, what are you saying?
	What are you saying, Dar?
	And of course, the director's going, action, action, because they're rolling film.
	It's very expensive.
	So anyways, I take about two more steps.
	And he says, I'll tell you what, if I hit, they're going to find sand in my eyes.
	Keep my eyes open until I hit the ground.
	And when he told me that, by the time we came into the camera frame, I mean, I was shaking.
	I was shaking more than him.
	And he sat on the edge of the building and he says, Kai, I love you guys.
	And he jumped.
	I didn't think he was going to jump.
	And he jumped!
	What had happened was this device, this cam device that I told you, we had some mechanical problems with that, so then we hooked up a couple of hand brakes, hydraulic brakes onto it.
	They were manipulated by me.
	Now, if I was to pull them too hard, too quick, it would snap that line just like a fish line.
	Obviously, yeah.
	And so we had a guy lay over the side of the building there, Gary.
	And he was laying over to the side and watching him fall.
	Now, mind you, he's falling almost a quarter mile.
	I mean, it's a long fall.
	And if he would start sucking in towards the building... See, the problem is this building, the way it was shaped, when the wind would hit the building, it would cause a vortex.
	And it was a swirl up in the building so that the wind itself was always at it.
	It changed all the time.
	Now, Canada's second tower, as big as that is, how do you get permission?
	I mean, the movie people, whoever, they go and they say, look, we want to do this stunt where we're going to have this guy jump off your building.
	You know, knowing that it might fail, you would think the authorities in the building would say, get lost.
	No, they were very happy because they got a tremendous amount of worldwide exposure from that.
	Well, the way it turned out, yeah.
	Well, yeah, if something happens, something happens.
	In fact, if you go to the CN Tower, go up there, there's a big plaque up there and photos of that jump.
	It's been there for years.
	So they're still proud.
	So who do you have to get permission from to do something like that?
	Well, you know, all the way.
	You have to go through the highest echelon.
	I mean, we've done a lot of things.
	I mean, we've had to, you know, drop some money here and there to do things, and the insurance is really the big thing.
	Oh, no.
	Drop money here and there?
	Well, sometimes.
	You've got to talk to them.
	Oh, boy, that brings up one.
	But anyways, yeah, you know, I mean, sometimes you just have to talk to people that, you know, they do that.
	Yeah, people do that.
	Yeah, they do. I mean, the production companies.
	Would you have done that, Joe?
	No. Absolutely no.
	No?
	You know, like I told you, I didn't think he was going to do it.
	And there's not too many people that I know that would do it.
	Was that used then in a movie?
	No, it was used in an ABC special, live, the world's most spectacular spectacle.
	As a matter of curiosity, what's something like that worth to the jumpy?
	We got a quarter million dollars for that stunt.
	That's a lot of money.
	That's a lot of money.
	You know, the people will say to me, well, why do you risk your life?
	You know, how far, what do you have to do to make $60,000?
	You know, a man that makes $60,000 in a year and he goes to work, you know, all those times, he's going to be at more risk than we are to stick our neck out for 30 seconds and make $60,000.
	And some of the bigger, larger high falls that we did, like in Stick and Sharky's Machine, those were worth the payoff.
	And you're claiming that the reason is because it's all Tested so well beforehand, you know, or you think you know exactly what's going to happen.
	What percentage of those high-risk jumps go wrong?
	Oh, I don't know the percentage.
	It's a very small percentage, but probably the most dangerous thing that you can do is a high fall.
	There's been a number of people who have actually gone right through the airbag or have missed the airbag.
	You know, every couple years it just seems like I hear somebody that lost their life.
	And you know, nowadays with all the special effects and things that they're doing digitally, it really doesn't make sense to have a man or woman risk their life in that way.
	Yeah, they got this new show with something called Gear Girl.
	I don't know if you've seen that.
	No, I haven't seen that.
	Gear Girl jumps off this building into it.
	You know, she's saying, well, you're on a burning building, you know, and your life is at risk.
	And Gear Girl jumps off into a trash dumpster.
	Which it looks to me like it's loaded with packing peanuts and stuff like that.
	Sure.
	So you're not going to likely find one with packing peanuts in it, but could you really save your life jumping off six or eight stories into a trash dumpster?
	Well, you can't have the cardboard boxes.
	That's what they used to do.
	They used to stack cardboard boxes.
	I mean, the guys have jumped 60 feet in the cardboard boxes.
	You'd have to know how many cardboard boxes.
	Funny story, I worked with Prince one time, you know?
	Prince?
	Prince, you know the musician?
	Of course.
	He had high heels on, and when the band would leave the stage, they would jump into an airbag, so I had to teach them how to do...
	A high fall into an Arabe with high heels on.
	I thought that was pretty good humor at the time.
	High heels.
	Uh, Kai Michelson, hold it right there, alright?
	We're gonna take a break.
	We'll be right back from the high desert.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	Screaming across the nation at speed of light.
	This is Premier Networks.
	That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	On this, Somewhere in Time.
	Back in the USA.
	Back in the bad old days.
	In the heat of a summer night, in the land of the dollar bill,
	when the town of Chicago died, and they talk about it still, when a man named Al Capone does try to make that town his
	own.
	The war in my connection is bad as any chance.
	Yeah, the dawn of the moon is burning in my head.
	Time's a-flyin' and time's a-hittin' dead.
	I'm cold my whole life spins into the brain Now my feathers in the twilight zone
	They didn't let out the beat of my feet Gone, my feet can't move under moonlight star
	Where's the door that I'm looking for?
	You were gone, gone When your mother had the bomb
	You were gone, gone When your mother had the bomb
	I'm falling down the spiral Destination unknown.
	Telephone messenger unlocked.
	Can't get no connection.
	Can't get through.
	Where are you?
	Well, the night wind carried on and killed their minds.
	They're far from the borderline.
	When the hitman comes, he knows damn well he has been cheated.
	Have you ever felt my breath as soon as my eyes closed?
	They didn't mean how sweet of my feet to hold My feet are bent over the moon and stars
	And I know I'll never go too far You were gone too soon
	When the bullet had you on You were gone too soon
	When the bullet had you on You are listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 1st, 2002.
	Well, I found it, the big kahuna.
	Here it is.
	Let's see, it weighs 55 pounds.
	It's diameter is 11 feet 41 inches.
	It's 19 feet 7 inches tall.
	That's perfect.
	It's 19 feet 7 inches tall. That's perfect. It's got three fins and you can read all about it.
	That's Big Hoon, and that just goes so well in my front yard.
	It's, uh, according to his website, uh, $875.
	That one's going right out front, baby.
	Right out front.
	I'm Art Bell.
	My guest is Kai Michelson.
	and he'll be right back.
	But you know, you don't have to be nocturnal to enjoy this amazing show.
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	Get a new view of the world with Coast to Coast AM.
	First of all, I want to just thank you for bringing everyone out here to Cornucopia.
	Just phenomenal knowledge.
	I don't know of anyone else that I've ever listened to on radio that just fills my brain and stimulates me.
	But, you know, I was listening to the show and I thought to myself, Do you think George, the common citizen such as you or I, really has any hope towards the future of any privacy or anything else?
	I think we do.
	I think eventually so many people will see the light, see what you see, see what I see, that eventually they're going to say enough is enough.
	And I think that we do have a future and we're going to win in the long run.
	It's going to be bumpy along the way.
	It's not going to be easy, but we will get there.
	That's my take, and you know what?
	As long as I can continue on the airwaves and tell people this, I shall.
	You are listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 1st, 2002.
	Music Once again, here is Kai Michelson.
	Kai, welcome back.
	How are you doing there?
	I'm doing just fine.
	And now listen, I'm told that you are getting ready to or preparing to launch a rocket actually out of the atmosphere Actually into space.
	Can you tell us about that?
	Yeah, we were just out there June 26th, 27th, 28th, and unfortunately we had really high winds.
	You were out where?
	In the Black Rock Desert.
	Black Rock Desert.
	Yeah, we're fully licensed to do that right now.
	And we were out there, and we had a tremendous amount of problems with the weather out there.
	And unfortunately, my mother passed away that Saturday.
	And so we came back, and we're rescheduling again now.
	All right.
	How big a rocket is this?
	This is 20 feet tall.
	It's about 7,000 pounds of thrust for 15 seconds.
	In 15 seconds, it'll go Mach 5.
	And it will go 62 miles.
	62 miles up.
	And obviously you'll have video recording equipment, maybe even a transmitter on board?
	Yeah, we have all kinds of data recorders.
	We have onboard real-time video.
	When it reaches the apogee itself, just beyond that, we have an explosive charge, a lineal charge.
	We're going to cut the rocket in half and out come a couple of ballistic parachutes.
	And we've got pingers on board.
	We've got two GPS that are going to lock up on it.
	and uh... we know where it's going to land uh... it was going to come back but
	it will be if you actually leave the atmosphere uh... you actually go into space then what uh... then what
	brings it back well uh... in order to stay in space i mean what happens is
	that really you need a really a two-stage rocket where ours is just going to go
	into space but uh... you know to pull away from uh... the gravity of
	the earth you have to be going over sixteen thousand miles an hour
	Right.
	But once you're up there, it takes nothing to do that.
	Well, relatively nothing to do that.
	And eventually that will be one of our projects, is to actually put a small satellite up.
	But that's an altogether different thing with what we're doing.
	You know, we're amateurs.
	This is not a professional thing for us.
	It's a number of guys and girls that have taken their time and money to put together all the electronics and stuff.
	I built the airframe for it up here in Minneapolis, and the propulsion system is made down in Nevada.
	We all got together with the same goal, and that's to put a rocket, you know, amateurs to put a rocket in space.
	What is the propulsion system?
	It's a solid propellant motor, very similar to what they use on the boosters of the shuttle.
	It's a highly aluminized propellant, and ammonium perchlorate, and I won't tell the rest of the chemicals, but it's, you know, once you light it... Ammonium perchlorate, that's what blew up out in Henderson, Nevada, the rocket.
	Yeah it sure did.
	It sure did.
	Probably the most dangerous part of making a motor itself is when you put the aluminum in because of the dust and things like that.
	But we do it in a very safe environment and we've got experience working with it.
	We started this project in 1995 building smaller motors and building bigger and bigger and bigger and now we're up to what's How do you get permission to launch something of this magnitude?
	ever built by amateurs, the largest motor.
	Like if you go and buy like an Estes motor, you got an A motor.
	Well, then if you buy a B motor, that's twice as big as an A. And then you go
	to C, that's twice as big.
	So they multiply in size.
	But this is a very, very large motor.
	Now, how do you get permission to launch something of this magnitude?
	Well, we approached the Space Transportation Department in Washington,
	D.C. approximately three years ago.
	There was a group of people called the Cat's Prize that was out there.
	I don't know if you heard about that or not.
	And they put up a quarter million dollars for the first civilians to put a rocket in outer space.
	And they flew out to Washington, D.C., and they met with the Space Transportation Department, the FAA, and NASA and a number of other groups.
	And they sat down and said, well, we want to give this prize, but before we give it, we want to make sure that they are not breaking any laws at all.
	So this is kind of how the bureaucrats work.
	The Space Transportation Department, he says, well, nobody's flying rockets over 20,000, 25,000 feet.
	And he says, what do you mean?
	The FAA says, what do you mean?
	We gave this guy at Minneapolis a waiver to fly 100,000 feet.
	And he says, what?
	And it opened up a huge can of worms.
	Because all of a sudden, the Space Transportation Department did not know what the FAA was doing.
	And at that point, they halted What do you mean?
	One department of our government unaware of what the other is doing?
	My God!
	Yes, yes, yes.
	Can it happen?
	It can happen.
	It happens.
	Well, I think it probably happens a lot.
	I think it probably does, too.
	So they settled this how?
	Well, what happened is then the Space Transportation Department was put into place in 1984, I believe, to facilitate people like me to put rockets in space.
	And the bottom line is they never even had I mean, they didn't even have a piece of paper they could send out for me to even fill.
	And there was like 25 members of this cast group that went in there to be licensed, and every one of them was so disheartened because of all the red tape that they got in Washington, D.C.
	that they quit.
	And out of that whole bunch, we were the only ones to go out to the Black Rock Desert and launch a rocket.
	And the rocket that we did launch reached a speed of 3,205 miles an hour, which is the fastest vehicle ever built by a civilian amateur.
	And unfortunately, when it reached what's known as max Q, there was a very bad wind shear.
	And it made the rocket bobble, and it put it under a lot of G-forces, and it ended up breaking the airframe up on it.
	Um, you know, we redesigned the rocket and, um, so it will be able to withstand, um, those type of, uh, g-forces if they come about again.
	But we've also developed all our own weather recording equipment now, and we launch balloons to various altitudes.
	So you've got to know if that shear is up there before you launch?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I see.
	Yeah, we didn't know it was there, you know.
	But this is the kind of thing NASA pays a lot of attention to, of course, before they launch.
	Well, of course they do.
	Normally, we would call down to Reno, and they launch balloons there.
	But now we launch a balloon to 5,000 feet, 10,000 feet, and our next one we're going to launch to 40,000 feet, so we won't have to be in contact with Reno, and that's going to open up our window.
	I mean, believe it or not, this last time we were out, our actual launch window was just 10 minutes.
	And another interesting story is that we have to contact four airports that block out The 40 square miles that are around where we launch.
	And the last one that we called, they didn't answer the telephone.
	It was almost like a catch-22.
	I'm going, what do you mean they don't answer the telephone?
	It took me four days before I reached Fallon Naval Base.
	And they said, why do you have to call here?
	I says, because it's on our list.
	It's something we have to do.
	If we don't, it's a $100,000 fine.
	as long as it is this is a critical from him he said i don't know
	but probably watching the heat must be smoking some bad weed.
	I asked for his name.
	Couldn't anyone tell me?
	But, I mean, the stuff that they have made us go through to get through these hoops, I doubt in this day and age the Wright Brothers would ever fly if they had to go through these agencies and get all wound up in all this red tape.
	Well, through it all, I mean, pushing through the red tape and all the rest of this to get, I mean, why in the world?
	Do you actually want to be the first private citizen to put a rocket into space?
	Why?
	Well, you know, I'll tell you.
	It goes all the way back when I was a young boy when I went to school.
	I'm totally dyslexic.
	And I was called stupid, dumb, and I don't want your kind around here when I was a young boy.
	And that gave me my personality that I have and the drive that I have.
	And you know, I hold 72 state, national, and national speed records.
	And a lot of things that I've accomplished in my life that I'm really proud of.
	So you were dyslexic?
	Oh, totally, yeah.
	So they thought you were just simply not intelligent?
	Right.
	They didn't know that back in the 50s.
	They didn't know what it was.
	And they just thought that I copped an attitude or I was dumb or stupid or whatever.
	You know, I flunked first grade.
	I went to summer school all the time.
	I went through all that.
	And, you know, plus what the teachers said to me.
	It was hard on me when I was a young boy.
	Well, somebody with that background, and obviously that was a big disadvantage.
	I mean, even if the teachers thought that if you flunked first grade, nobody flunks first grade.
	You flunked first grade.
	So how does somebody like that get from there to Rockets?
	You know, I pretty much have educated myself.
	To this day, my mind, you know, my mind itself will not allow me to divide.
	I mean, there's a lot of things that I can't do, but if I can't do it, somebody else surely can do it.
	Or that's what you've got computers for, you know?
	But now I love history, you know?
	I love to learn.
	Every day, you know, I watch the Learning Channel, or Discovery, or History, and I mean, I'm just totally in that.
	I try to keep packing stuff into my brain.
	I mean, I just love this, and I've done a lot of research in this rocket program.
	Isn't that something we just jumped into?
	And we also have, I mean, when we first started this program out, it was my wife and I, and then Jerry Larson came into it, and then Eric Knight came into it, and now there's approximately 30 amateurs that are involved in some of the universities and schools that built some electronic packages for us, and the avionics and stuff like that.
	So it's a true amateur project.
	Lo and behold, we have a lot of people that keep coming into it, but it costs a lot of money to do this.
	I'm retired now.
	I've made a fair living of my life.
	We're doing a little thing on calling cards.
	We put a calling card in there.
	We charge $50 for that calling card, but it will go into space and we'll sign it and authenticate it.
	Eventually, down the road, that's a piece of history and that calling card will be worth a lot of money.
	Of course.
	I want to ask you about something pretty far out there.
	You're obviously You're interested in propulsion systems of all sorts, right?
	Yes, sir.
	Okay, well, in the first hour of the show tonight, which you might not have heard, I read from James Defense Weekly, very credible publication, you agree?
	Oh, yes.
	The headline is, Anti-Gravity Propulsion Comes Out of the Closet.
	Boeing, the world's largest aircraft manufacturer, has admitted it is now working on experimental anti-gravity projects that could overturn a century of conventional aerospace propulsion technology if The science underpinning them can be engineered into hardware.
	So Boeing is working on anti-gravity.
	It kind of sounds like flying saucer stuff, you know?
	Kind of.
	The theory is out there.
	That's going to be a fun deal if that happens, because that's going to open up a can of worms.
	Well, at the very least, it has implications for energy needs for this country, because that kind of propulsion system, of course, would create energy in a way that We really, really, really, really need right now.
	I've seen something, another really interesting propulsion system, and that's using a laser.
	And I was at a seminar where they, actually they had a, like a small flying saucer that was made out of titanium, and they had it up on a rod, and they spun it with air, and then they fired the laser, and this thing was actually flying!
	The problem is, the heat was so high, that I mean, that it, you know, it was way up in the air when it disintegrated, it just turned to sparks, boom!
	And Titanium can withstand a tremendous amount of heat.
	So that last thing I heard that they were going to be making a ceramic one and then going over to Russia because they're supposed to have the most powerful lasers in the world.
	As a matter of fact, Russia is where this technology came from that Boeing is proceeding with right now.
	Yes.
	From Russia.
	Why would all of this be good?
	Maybe it's because it got less red tape.
	Well, you know, what's interesting here with this rocket project here, there were Because I'm an American, I cannot go out 12 miles out in international water and launch that rocket.
	Why not?
	Because the government says I can't.
	You can go 12 miles out, you can gamble if you want to.
	Yeah, but they won't allow me.
	I cannot go to any other country and do it.
	Because as an American citizen, it's the law.
	Because from what I understand, this country wanted an agreement with other countries that they would be responsible for anything that's launched.
	From this country.
	And so that opens, that's just another great big huge can of worms.
	Yeah, I know, but you wouldn't be launching from this country.
	You'd be launching from 12 miles out or even some other foreign nation.
	Because I'm taking that technology.
	I'm telling you.
	That's what it's about.
	And it makes no sense at all.
	You know, I'm an American.
	I'm a proud American.
	You know, this thing that we're doing, this premiere of SpaceShop2002, you know, if we don't do it, another country is going to do it.
	You know, it's like back when we got caught with our pants down when spot that what i would have done that
	no because you know i think that all the fact that goddard you know i mean goddard
	you know the the father of liquid motors
	i mean our country what you know what i've got one would listen to that
	first he just thought it was some kind of coup point out his backyard you know
	i'm actually old enough to remember listening uh... to the terrifying beats that they were
	playing on the radio saying this was from an orbiting russian space satellite
	I remember it well.
	I sat there in my living room listening to that, horrified, with everybody else saying, oh my god, America's done.
	Yep.
	Yep.
	And we got caught with our pants down.
	You know, the government should be, actually, you know, they should be encouraging people like me and our group to do this, because, you know, There's always something to learn.
	If I don't do it, then another country, somebody from another country, and it's going to be one more thing that wasn't done in this country just because we were suppressed by the government.
	Well, NASA is not the world.
	As proud as I am of what NASA has done, mostly past history, to not put all our eggs in one basket, NASA's, just seems Not like, it's not American.
	I mean, in America, you know, we're individualistic, we're rugged, we're supposed to be able to do what we want to do.
	Have we made a terrible mistake by wrapping everything around NASA?
	Yes.
	You know, the way I look at it, I mean, they've developed a tremendous amount of technology and all, there's no doubt about it.
	But I look at it as this.
	There's a bunch of guys in NASA that they will not let us play with their toys.
	They got the toys, they won't let us play with the toys.
	We pay for the toys, but to them it's not our toys.
	That's the way that I look at it.
	If a bunch of amateurs can build a rocket, put it in the space, recover it for Under $200,000.
	Maybe they don't want to be shown up.
	We're going to show them up.
	Maybe that's what their motive is.
	They know it can be done and they don't want somebody out there, some Tom, Dick, Harry or Kai.
	Of course they know it can be done.
	And, you know, we need to be regular.
	I mean, there's got to be a certain... Some regulation.
	I agree.
	Hold on, Kai.
	Kai, hold on.
	We've got to take a break.
	Be right back.
	The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	more somewhere in time coming up.
	I was so high.
	I was so high.
	Time, time, time, see what's become of me.
	Why'd I look around for my possibilities?
	I was so high.
	All of time's out of control.
	Fear but that's all.
	Not to the wind, the sun, or the rain.
	He can heal us day and night.
	So come on baby, don't fear the reaper.
	Baby take my hand, don't fear the reaper.
	To win the sun or the rain We could be like the day after
	Come on baby Don't feel the rain, baby
	Baby take my hand Don't feel the rain, baby
	We'll be able to fly Don't feel the rain, baby
	Baby I'm coming La la la la la la
	La la la la la la La la la la la la
	La la la la la la La la la la la la
	Premier Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 1st, 2002.
	Guy Michelson is my guest.
	Internationally known stumps man, rocket builder.
	He's the guy who built most of the rockets for October Sky, which was one of the best movies I've ever seen.
	He's really something.
	He's people jumping off buildings and Building rockets on wheelchairs and bicycles and you name it.
	He's built a lot of rockets now.
	He's building one that's going to space and coming back.
	We'll get right back to it.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 1st, 2002.
	Now I have no idea whether it was Kyan Michelsen's company or some other company, but I was contacted
	Kai, it has not come to fruition yet, but a company was going to launch some stuff into space and they contacted me and they wanted me to be the spokesperson for their commercials and they said we would be willing to launch something for you into space, you know, for doing this.
	And my wife and I talked about it.
	We're going to have our First, the first gold wedding bands, simple gold wedding bands that we got when we got married, we're going to have those put together, one inside the other, into the eternity symbol and launch those.
	In fact, we've done that.
	They're ready.
	I was just wondering if you know, are there others working on... Oh yes, there's a number of people.
	Most of them have been discouraged, like I say, in the licensing process.
	As a matter of fact, you can be my guest and come out when we launch.
	Would you like to do that?
	If you want me to put up anything for you, I'll do it.
	And where are you going to launch from?
	Black Rock.
	That's about 120 miles north of Reno.
	I can do that.
	Now, when?
	Off the air, I can give you the date.
	Oh, you can't?
	I can't because we can only have 45 people out there.
	Is that all?
	Yep.
	Why?
	Uh, because of the danger.
	You know, it's really interesting, you know, when I, I, I, I had the, uh, Space Transportation Department, uh, came out to Black Rock and I asked them what their main concern.
	There's no, I mean, there is nothing, nothing out there.
	And I said, so how many stop signs have you seen on the way up here?
	I've just got to be facetious.
	I said, you tell me what your main concern is.
	And he says, protecting the public.
	I said, don't give me that garbage.
	If that's the case, you would stop every air show where they send supersonic fireplanes over the heads of 100,000 people.
	Well, you saw the big accident in Russia, right?
	Yes, every year people are killed.
	And you know, I cannot have one person Downrange.
	You know, it's alright for the shuttle to launch, you know, and that's not 26 miles away.
	Well, everybody has to be down on the other side.
	I mean, that's how much they have restricted us.
	I would be honored to come.
	Really, I would.
	Oh, I'd love to have you there.
	What time of day are you probably going?
	It'd be around somewhere between 8 and 9 o'clock in the morning.
	So I'd have to record it for later playback.
	Yeah, I'd love to have you come out there.
	All right, you got a deal.
	I'll contact you off air, and I'll bring my rig up there.
	Yeah, we'll, if you have me, we'll put whatever you want on board.
	Oh, really?
	Oh, that's one of the things.
	Oh, you will?
	Yeah.
	It's just gotta be small.
	It's gotta be small.
	Like two rings?
	Sure, that's no problem.
	Uh, we're doing this business card thing here to bring some money in.
	We got some coins, uh, we're putting up.
	But if you go on the website, you'll see, uh, you go on to the, uh, csxtrocket.com.
	You go on there, you'll see our old program that we've done and what we've done in the past.
	I mean, you know, we're not talkers, we're doers.
	And, uh, you know, we do have a history of what we have done.
	We just come back from out there and we're planning on going back out again.
	And we're, we've got a rocket that will go into space.
	Can you say if it's coming up in the next year?
	Um, within the next 60 days.
	Oh, the next 60 days.
	Yes.
	All right.
	Yeah, you're right.
	You're a doer.
	All right.
	You know, you've got a lot of technology that you've developed that's gone into the movies.
	What kind of stuff is being used in motion pictures today that you helped develop?
	Well, like these senders, these accelerators.
	We see people falling off buildings and stuff like that.
	We were some of the first people, especially about the high falls, the real high falls
	that we brought that into.
	And the fire gags.
	We worked with a lot of the fire gags when that first started.
	We were lighting ourselves on fire and worked with companies developing the gels and stuff
	like that.
	But those are the things that we brought to the table.
	I thought you needed a suit.
	Oh, there's also a gel.
	You can light yourself on fire with a gel?
	There's a gel.
	There's a gel that you can put on.
	As a matter of fact, what you do is you take Pantheos and you put on your arms and then you soak it in this gel.
	You can control the flames, keep away from your face.
	I mean, you'll see fire gags nowadays where they don't have those suit on.
	It's only a short period of time.
	So they do them cut, but you can do it.
	Well, you could do it.
	I wouldn't do that.
	That's way down on my list.
	Way down on my list.
	So you developed that for... Well, I didn't develop it.
	We, as stunt people, yes.
	Well, do you get some sort of continuing residual benefit from... Oh, that's where I made my mistake.
	Back then, there was a lot of things I really should have patented.
	And we didn't do that.
	And like our defender that other people have used, we developed it, but there was an Academy Award, one with that piece of equipment, and we got no credit at all for it.
	So those are the things, you know, when you're younger and you just don't think about those things.
	I know.
	I know.
	That's because you don't.
	You're dumber.
	You get old too soon and smart too late.
	How does that one sound?
	That's probably right, yeah.
	By the way, what happened to your friend?
	Is Kai still alive?
	No, he was killed in an accident right after doing a stunt in the movie.
	It was just a weird deal.
	He was working on the Million Dollar Mystery.
	After he'd done some major stunts, they were taking a break and getting ready to go home, and the director came over to him and said, you know, we're assuming you're done, we need three motorcycles to drive by a fixed camera, and then take a left.
	And when he did it, there was three bikes, and he got squeezed off, and he went off the side of a cliff.
	And he just broke his leg, and some internal injuries that he had.
	But the ambulance had just left, and the chopper had just left.
	As it turned out, the ambulance thought they were going to come back, and the chopper thought they were going to come back.
	Neither one came back, and he bled to death in an hour and 45 minutes.
	It was horrible.
	He was my best, beloved, dear friend.
	It just tore my heart out for years.
	That's when I saw my wife.
	My wife's my best friend now, but back then it just killed me.
	Darn faced death so many times.
	And I was right there with him.
	His life was in my hands on a number of occasions.
	And you become very close to a person when you get like that.
	I mean, he thoroughly trusted me and I trusted him.
	He bled to death.
	I mean, from an external injury, his leg, or from some internal injury?
	No, he was pierced, and his stomach was pierced, and his liver, and they stuffed some rags in there and tried to stop the bleeding.
	And they didn't come back, you know.
	They didn't come back.
	So that is what you risk, right?
	I mean, whether it's with what seems like a simple motorcycle stunt or just even a cut.
	The simplest thing can get you.
	I mean, I know a stunt guy that fell off his ladder putting in air conditioning was guilt.
	In fact.
	Well, you're getting on up there now.
	You're 60-something, right?
	Yeah, I'm a stunt coordinator now, you know.
	Oh, so you set them up now?
	Oh, yeah.
	I mean, if I was doing... I mean, I'll jump in a car and, you know, I'm a pretty good driver still.
	You know, you talk about that fire gig we were talking about.
	We had a stuntman come up here to Minnesota that was going to drive a snowmobile through the ice to reenact for...
	Oh boy, one of the shows.
	Rescue 9-1-1.
	What do you mean, through the ice?
	Well, what happened was they were going to recreate an accident where a sheriff had gone through the ice on a frozen lake.
	Oh, you mean just boom, down into the water?
	Yeah, right.
	There was an area where the water was bubbling and coming up there, and so it was real thin ice, and he went through it, and they brought a stuntman from California to do it.
	As it turned out, I'd rather light myself on fire than do this.
	He came back and he was so cold.
	It was well over ten below.
	I ended up doing the stunt.
	I'll tell you, when I hit that water, the snowmobile just ripped right out of my hands.
	Then the first thing you do, of course, is take a big gulp of that cold water.
	It's kind of like eating ice cream.
	Cold ice cream on the top of your brain, frozen.
	That was pretty crazy.
	I really would love to understand the...
	The psychological, I mean, there must have been something other than dyslexia.
	I mean, what kind of family did you come from?
	What makes a person like you?
	Well, I have a picture of my great-uncle coming off a ski jump in 1905 on a bicycle.
	If you go on my website, you'll see it.
	Genetics.
	Yeah, John Michelson.
	And then also, you know, my father was an inventor.
	They made the Michelson motorcycle and the Minneapolis motorcycle.
	They worked with the oxygen masks for aircraft.
	My father worked on lightning arresters for aircraft.
	Oh, well then maybe it's genetic.
	Yeah, I think there's definitely some genetic in there, yes.
	Actually, you probably are either at the high end or the low end of the gene pool.
	I don't know where I'm at.
	I'm in there someplace.
	I'm still walking.
	So you think you'll just keep on doing this until you can't do it anymore?
	Oh yeah.
	I mean, you know, working in the stunt industry, I mean, you know, I've been all over the world.
	I have met more interesting people than you could shake a stick at.
	I'll bet you have.
	I think, you know, the only one, you know, I mean, Burt Reynolds has got people like that, you know, friends, I know, you know, a lot of people in the industry and stuff, but I'll tell you what, when you shake a guy's hand like Buzz Aldrin, or the Moonwalkers, I'll tell you what, those are the guys, those are real men!
	Yeah, alright, well here we are, back to this for a second, and this is, I'm drawing you over the edge here a little bit, but, you know, with Boeing working on anti-gravity propulsion, and with All of the UFO sightings that we have, I just wonder what your view is, whether you think there are things in our skies.
	Now, I live out here in Pahrump, Nevada, near...
	Not far from Area 51, we see things in the sky here all the time that are totally, completely inexplicable.
	And if we've got James headlines that Boeing is working on anti-gravity, then what's the government been doing out there, you know, in the desert here?
	They've probably been doing a lot of things.
	I mean, why can't we have somebody from space come here?
	You know, I mean, why not?
	I don't want to sound something very manageable and very likable, but it can happen.
	The flying saucers or whatever, or people from other planets.
	Look, about a week ago, we had something appear just about over Washington, D.C.
	in Maryland.
	A couple F-16s took off after it, and it left them in the dust.
	Gone.
	No noise, no visible propulsion, nothing.
	And they just say, well, yeah, we had it on radar.
	Yeah, we chased it with F-16s.
	We came home and now everything's okay.
	I mean, that's like the story you get.
	So there's got to be something out there.
	Something's going on.
	Oh, there's no doubt about it.
	You know, back in the 60s, I tell you, there was a lot of fighting in the late 60s.
	I remember it very well.
	You know, I don't consider myself as a kook, but I'll tell you what, I've seen things up there that are unexplainable to me.
	Have you?
	Sure.
	You know, there's a lot of people out there.
	I'm not the only one.
	There's thousands, tens of thousands, millions.
	I mean... No millions.
	You know why I think most people don't see it?
	Because if you examine your everyday life, number one, you're inside most of the time.
	Number two, when you are outside, you're paying attention to the road in front of you, or the car in front of you, or whatever else is in front of you, and you're not looking at the sky.
	So, we miss most of these things simply because we're not looking.
	I'll buy that.
	Well, because that's true.
	You really think it is possible that we have been or are being visited?
	Who knows with light years out there?
	I mean, you know, there's no reason why there can't be a planet like Earth.
	Now we're chasing these things and we're shooting at them.
	What do you think about that?
	You know, especially the shooting.
	There can be technology that's so far out there.
	You know, one of my hardest things for me to understand if I'm laying in bed And try to start thinking about infinity?
	Yes.
	Think about it sometime.
	Keep your mind, try to be able to grasp infinity where there's no end.
	Try to grasp it.
	I can't grasp it.
	I have to stop thinking about it.
	Yes.
	No, that's right.
	You have to stop thinking about it, or you lose what little you have left.
	I know.
	That's all true.
	So you really think then, with the vastness out there, it's entirely possible That some of these things that have been seen may not be ours.
	I find that possible.
	It's probable.
	I mean, it makes sense to me.
	I mean, why not?
	Look, we went to the moon.
	I sat on TV, watched TV and watched man land on the moon.
	I loved it.
	Do you consider it odd that, number one, we've never gone back?
	Number two, we've never gone further.
	We haven't gone to Mars yet.
	We do a lot of talk out there, but we haven't gone.
	And we've never even gone back to the moon.
	It's like we did that and then stopped cold.
	Well, you know something?
	I'll tell you what.
	When the Chinese finally do that, and they will go to the moon, our balance of power is going to change really fast.
	I mean, this is how I feel personally.
	Because I think that, you know, from a technical standpoint, all the other countries are going to look at China and say, look what they did.
	They went to the moon.
	Well, look what they're doing!
	I've been watching Chinese launches, I've got the C-band satellite here, and you can watch, they're actually kind of comical if you ever watch Chinese launch, the way their technicians act versus ours, but nevertheless, the Chinese are making really big strides in launching satellites, aren't they?
	In the next five years, I believe they'll be on the moon, and I'm just going to tell you the balance of power You know, I tell you what, we're going to have a problem if we don't do something real spectacular out there ourselves, and we should continue with that.
	I mean, you know, the shuttle, you know, this is interesting.
	I may not be right on the numbers, but it takes something like 30,000 people to maintain the shuttle.
	Can you imagine having 30,000 people maintaining it every 747 around?
	I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous.
	You know, the private sector can do it so much cheaper than the government can do it.
	You know that with everything.
	And they should let the private sector get involved in that.
	Would they let you put up a satellite?
	Now, there's already a lot of stuff, junk, in space.
	Would they actually let you put up something that would orbit?
	Well, I mean, we have right now on the drawing board to do that, but whether the federal government, what we're going to have to go through to do that, You know, that's something, that's an issue that you're going to have to face.
	But we're going to try and pull it off.
	You know, that's not today or tomorrow.
	That's down the road.
	I mean, obviously they would be concerned that you would collide with some communication satellite or some very expensive something orbiting up there, right?
	Yeah, but isn't it interesting?
	Who owns space?
	Let me tell you.
	That's a good question.
	How high above your house do you own?
	One inch?
	One mile?
	Ten miles?
	You know, who owns space?
	Well, I'm here to say I own whatever's up there.
	Yeah, me too.
	Now, I know that you don't always get mineral rights, but nobody ever mentions what's above you.
	Well, they do when you go to apply for a license.
	Yeah, but of course they would argue you're not going to be launching only over your property.
	Well, there's, you know, I mean, there's areas.
	Okay, what about launching out to the ocean?
	Yeah, you would think that would be alright.
	It's not.
	Why not?
	Again, you still have to go through the Space Transportation Department and they can say yay or nay.
	And, you know, you can even go on to, I mean, you can go up to Vandenberg or White Sands or one of those, but I'll tell you what, you better have a lot of money to do it.
	And because it doesn't come cheap to use those facilities.
	I mean, they may be just sitting there dormant, not even being used.
	But if you want to go use that facility, you know... This area is not all that far from me that you could, here in Nevada, where you could, I think, safely launch.
	Well, the thing is, they have never licensed an amateur to do that.
	You know, I mean, they just haven't been licensed.
	I mean, there was a, you know, there was a project years ago where they used, you know, I mean, government propulsion system and stuff, a group of people down in Texas that launched the rocket.
	But, you know, that's back before.
	The laws came in.
	In 1984, the Space Transportation Department, as I mentioned, was put into place.
	That's when the laws came in.
	Before, it was pretty free.
	You could do what you wanted to do.
	It's just like when cars first came out, you needed a driver's license.
	Now, they've got it so restricted that it restricts everybody.
	It's absolutely ridiculous.
	You think that the government would want the private sector to get involved and to do it cheaper?
	If you couldn't get through the red tape to launch into space, and yet you were ready to launch into space, would you be tempted to go out And do it anyway?
	Well, yeah.
	Well, no.
	Not now, because I have too much to lose.
	I have a home, I have a family, and I would lose all of that.
	And, you know, if it was a misdemeanor, yeah, no problem.
	But you'd lose all that?
	I'd have a $100,000 fine and a jail sentence.
	You know, I'm not a radical by no means, so I have to use my head a little bit.
	Your young wife would hate that.
	My wife has what she calls veto power.
	you know and i occasionally want to do things that uh...
	hang gliding on my big on handwriting and uh... well yeah i know but she she
	stems is veto power and i'm wondering if your wife is uh... yeah i think that the kind of the people all right
	now i i promised her uh... last october that i was going to pay more money on
	this project and yet And yet you have... Kyle, hold on a sec, okay?
	You are listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 1st, 2002.
	You know it don't come easy.
	You know it don't come easy.
	But you see it's you that you want to sing the blues.
	And you know it don't come easy.
	You don't have to shout or plead the files, you can even play them easy.
	Get up and play.
	Where are those happy days, they seem so hard to find.
	I tried to reach for you, but you have broken my heart.
	And show me whatever happened.
	Whatever happened to our love?
	I wish I understood.
	It used to taste so nice, it used to taste so good.
	I love you so, I love you so Oh, when you near me, darling, can't you hear me?
	It's so lit The love you gave me, nothing else can save me
	It's so lit When you're gone, how can I even try to go on?
	When you're gone, though I try, how can I carry on?
	You seem so far away, though you are sending me You make me feel alive, but sometimes I feel so lonely
	I really tried to make it out I wish I understood
	What happened to our love? It used to be so true Somewhere in time.
	With Art Bell.
	Continues.
	Courtesy of Premier Network.
	Okay, we're about to do it everybody.
	Kai Michelson is my guest stuntman, rocket guy.
	If you've got any questions about rocketry, putting things into space, stunts, what he's done his life, his entire life.
	Now we're about to open phone lines so you can ask questions.
	So you've got the numbers, you know what they are?
	Let's rock.
	Coast to coast AM sure sounds great in the middle of the night.
	But you know, you don't have to be nocturnal to enjoy this amazing show.
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	Get a new view of the world with Coast to Coast AM.
	At this point, I'm not happy with the direction that government is taking us.
	I'm happy with the fact that Americans are beginning to wake up and stand up and do what they have to do.
	And shout, and scream, and blog.
	And I think that's critical.
	And I think that's what's going to save the Republic.
	I think in the long run, as we go through all this stuff, it's the people who will save us.
	And our country will remain strong.
	Somewhere in Time, with Art Bell, continues, courtesy of Premier Networks.
	Alright, once again, Kai Michelson.
	I'm about to open the phone lines.
	I've heard that a lot of times.
	I'm a very driven person.
	I would imagine people, what do people most often ask you?
	I don't want to preempt anybody on the lines, but I'm just curious.
	When people get to meet you, Kai, what do they ask a lot?
	I think kind of, where do you get your drive?
	I've heard that a lot of times.
	I'm a very driven person.
	Do any of them ask if you've been psychologically profiled?
	No.
	No.
	Have you been psychologically profiled?
	No, I'm scared to know.
	You know, I would think, well anyway, let's go to the line and see what people do ask.
	West of the Rockies, you're on air with Kai Michelson.
	Hello?
	Yeah, hi Joe Lynn.
	Boy, what am I hearing going in the background there?
	Is it me?
	Yeah, something sounds like a big engine running in the background.
	That's weird, I hear that too.
	I'm on a Sanyo, you know, the digital you guys sold that was really good.
	Is that better?
	No.
	I'm moving.
	No, it sounds like... Anyway, go ahead, sir.
	Ah, gee whiz, I'm sorry.
	Yeah, I was wondering if we were going to have a bicentennial visit again over the Capitol, and I guess it turns out we did.
	They were just saying that 50 years, you know, it was 50 years ago that we had all those spottings over the Capitol.
	Yeah, you're talking about the recent attempt at interception by the F-16s, yes.
	Absolutely, and I'm a big kid too.
	I played with all the same toys you guys did when I was a kid.
	Fun stuff.
	Yeah, all that.
	I can't believe how similar it is.
	I kept all my fingers and toes and went on to be able to do some things.
	You know, I can't believe we've got a doom buggy up there on the planet moon.
	We never built a carport and it's below the level to put that sucker in.
	I wonder what your opinion on that was.
	It seems absurd, it's a much better place to have a station.
	The other question was, with all your experience with jet engines and propulsion systems, it's
	a little off kilter.
	Are you familiar with the contrail or chemtrail debate?
	Yeah, I was pretty far off kilter.
	It's similar.
	It does come out the rear of an engine and I wondered if you have to fly into it, it
	is in the sky.
	All right, well, to cut it short here, there is this chemtrail controversy and a lot of
	people feel that there is an attempt at weather modification underway and that they are using
	commercial jets and other jets to lay things in the atmosphere for some reason, either
	weather control or perhaps a...
	As part of a weapons system?
	We have no idea, but there's this big chemtrail controversy.
	I don't know if you've heard about it.
	I've read a little bit about it where a woman wrote it to a magazine.
	I saw a little article on it, yes.
	Yes, right.
	Any thoughts on it?
	I'm telling you, there's enough technology out there to basically alter anything.
	I really believe that.
	Who knows?
	You just don't know.
	I mean, years ago we used to make rain.
	We did. First time caller on line, you're on the air with Ty Michelson. Good morning.
	Hi. I'm wondering if you can use balloons to get the rocket up high enough to where you don't need to use as much fuel
	to get it given payload into space.
	Well, as a matter of fact, there's a couple of groups of people that are doing that, but there's a lot of problems
	from there.
	I mean, you know, we have a launch pad that's in one spot, and to keep that launch pad, you know, I mean, you're bringing it up, you go and you get into the air currents, and boom, all of a sudden you're in an area you can't launch.
	But, I mean, there's some guys who are working on projects just like we're talking about.
	Well, yeah, because of a balloon.
	They send balloons up to 100,000 feet.
	Oh, yeah.
	I mean, they're pretty thin.
	Our goal is to launch right from ground zero.
	What are the problems in launching from a balloon as opposed to the ground?
	Uh, the problem is, is to, I mean, the thing, uh, it gets into the air current, you know, the wind, the currents, and, um, it's gone.
	And then before you know it, you're sitting over a bunch of houses.
	I mean, you just, it's a tough deal.
	Ah, I see.
	So, in other words, you're not controlling the launch, obviously, when you're that far up.
	It's very, uh, uncontrollable.
	I mean, things have to be absolutely perfect to do that.
	I mean, I've been out to a launch where, uh, some guys of, uh, you know, JP were, uh, out to the Black Rock where they had a small rocket, and, um, They had to end the flight because all of a sudden it was out of the perimeter.
	And that's one of the problems that you'll run into all the time.
	Unless you launch over the ocean.
	Alright.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Kai Michelson.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Art Bell?
	Yes.
	I have a question about a theory that I have about his red tape situation, then I have a suggestion for payload.
	My first question is, do you think that with all the red tape and nonsense you've had to go through to try to launch this personal rocket into space, Do you think that maybe the government is afraid that if you're successful in doing this that you may be approached or maybe even yourself or your crews kidnapped by foreign entities?
	Oh boy!
	That will force you to hand over the technology?
	I'm not ready for that one, but I'm here to protect our hobby and our sport, and if somebody from another country was to say something to me, I definitely would turn that over to the proper authorities, because we want to protect what we've done.
	But who knows what's out there?
	In this day and age, anything is possible.
	Now, about the payload, when you plan on launching something into orbit, I guess in a future mission?
	Is that going to be a stationary or a geosynchronous orbit?
	No, what we want to do is re-enact the Sputnik.
	That's what we basically want to do.
	We're just going to go beep, beep, beep.
	That'd be a low-Earth orbit then.
	Yeah, we're looking at like a four-years, where we'd be up for four years.
	Yeah, getting something up to geosynchronous orbit, 22.5, up or 23, whatever it is, that's a whole lot more expensive, right?
	That's an all-new game.
	You know, that's the all-new game.
	In fact, once you're out there, really, once you're out there, you're just a step away from the moon, aren't you?
	Right, right.
	I mean, what we're talking about is a very doable thing.
	You know, I mean, you can do a lot of reading, a lot of research.
	It's all there.
	It's just a matter of doing it, you know?
	All right.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Kai Michelson.
	Good morning.
	How are you this morning, Eric?
	I'm glad that you're back.
	Thank you.
	You're on a sort of a depleted cell phone there.
	What's up?
	I just wanted to comment on his October Sky.
	A fantastic movie.
	I've watched it at least a dozen times myself.
	And I've heard all you guys talking about the blue lights over Maryland and Washington, D.C.
	Yes.
	Now, I want to draw a timeline for you.
	Tuesday morning this week, 117 a.m., mile marker 37, I-785 in Dayton, Ohio.
	There was a fantastic blue light that was there for about a second and a half.
	It lit up the inside of my truck just like, uh, the beginning of, uh, sorry, uh, the beginning of the, uh, uh, what's that movie, uh... Closing Jouners of the... Yes, sir.
	When they were accepting, uh, the railway crossing, all the diesel in my truck went dead for about a second and a half.
	You got a diesel, right?
	Yes sir, but the water was running.
	But all my gears just went dead, and then they came right back on.
	I got on the TV.
	Some people were saying mud balloons, some people were saying lightning.
	I've never seen blue lightning, and I don't think a weather balloon would put out that kind of a light.
	Alright, I appreciate the report.
	I don't know if it directly, in a way, it does.
	I mean, there are so many things out there, like this trucker just told us about happening to him, that I don't...
	You know, what he just said just rang a bell.
	When I was about 20 years old, Denny, a friend of mine who I grew up with, his wife, He told us exactly the same thing up in Minneapolis, that a car actually went dead.
	So, I just heard it twice now.
	So, when he said that, I go, wow!
	This guy's not too far out there, I'll tell you that.
	Very large electromagnetic fields.
	I was told exactly the same thing by Denny's wife.
	Same thing.
	All right.
	These are the Rockies.
	You're on the air with Kai Michelson.
	Thank you.
	Hi, Irv.
	Yes, hello.
	Hi, how are you?
	I'm glad to hear that.
	How are you doing there?
	Where are you, sir?
	I'm in Illinois.
	All right.
	Hey, Kai, I was just wondering, what are you going to do about safety?
	I mean, what if something happens?
	Are you going to have EMTs there, or what's going to happen?
	Yeah, we actually have the Sheriff's Department that blocks off the roads onto the Black Rock Desert this time.
	We hired them, and that's another thing we're doing.
	But the whole area is cleared for you.
	Actually, where it's going to land is going to be 26 miles downrange.
	Yeah, which I mentioned, you know, the Apogee, we have an explosive charge.
	We're going to cut the rocket in half.
	It's a directional mortar situation, and we're cutting it in half, and it's coming in on ballistic parachutes.
	We know right where it's going to land.
	You know, I mean, there's no housing, no nothing there.
	I mean, there's nothing there.
	So, I mean, yeah, it's a pretty safe thing, what we're doing.
	Sounds great.
	I wish you the best of luck.
	Oh, thank you very much.
	Appreciate that.
	All right.
	Thank you, and take care.
	And west of the Rockies, you're on the air with Kai Michelson.
	Hello.
	Hi, I'm Stan from Palm Springs.
	Yes, sir.
	I wanted to ask if he has a name for his rocket, like Big Bertha or something.
	Yeah, no, they call it Premier, SpaceShot 2002.
	That's our project.
	Oh, excellent.
	Also, have you considered launching from an Indian reservation to skirt the government problems that you've been having?
	You know, I've had that in the back of my mind as a matter of fact.
	It's something I haven't gotten into, but who knows?
	Maybe.
	I don't know.
	That's a possibility.
	It's a real good possibility.
	I've driven by them and I've I thought to myself, I wonder if.
	But we've gotten our license now.
	What I'm just saying is the difficulty of that for others to follow.
	That's my whole thing.
	What I'm hoping is we're going to open up the doors for other people to follow through.
	That's what it's all about.
	Then I can sit in my chair and watch somebody else do what we're doing.
	Here's a question for you, Ty.
	Other than the man in Oregon, what about the prospect of launching A person.
	A person.
	To some great altitude, or even to low Earth orbit, or something of that magnitude.
	I mean, how far away... We're talking about payloads here, I suppose, but how far away, once you launch something into low Earth orbit, would you be from launching a person?
	I mean, it's doable.
	We do it all the time.
	It's just what it's going to cost is...
	It's kind of like altitude.
	It costs money.
	How high do you want to go?
	Of course, everything has to get bigger.
	You've got more fuel, you've got more weight, so you've got to have more fuel.
	It goes on and on and on.
	I mean, but it's a doable thing.
	And guess what?
	Some people will be doing that in the near future.
	And, you know, it won't be long, you know, before we have to, I mean, actually, where you can actually take a ride in the space.
	I mean, the kids out there, they're five, six years old.
	It's going to be a common occurrence by the time they're adults to be able to go into space, take rides in the space.
	It's going to happen.
	And believe me, the civilians are going to be the ones that are going to do it.
	Our government lets us.
	I mean, that's a pretty big if.
	I consider that a big if.
	You know, there's a reason I told you earlier about, you know, going to the moon, not going back, stopping the manned space program except for LEO.
	So, I'm not beyond thinking that maybe we've been warned that we ought not be traversing large amounts of space.
	I mean, we want to go around the planet for Certain reasons, fine, but it's almost like we've been warned.
	I don't know if I certainly believe that, but I kind of halfway believe it.
	I can't explain why we've quit the way we have.
	I can't either, but, you know, from another... I mean, you look at... I've gone to, you know, the space seminars and stuff like that, but one of the interesting things is, you know, I've seen people that are actually selling tickets for $5,000 to go in space in one year, and I've seen people that are gullible enough to hand that kind of money out.
	And I'm just going, what are they doing?
	And I've seen women that weigh 250 pounds.
	I want to leave this place.
	But you have to stop and think about it before anybody should ever do it.
	Sure, going into space and coming back would be just great.
	It would be a heck of a good time.
	But to live in the space and be in outer space, I think you should go to jail for one year and sit in a cell and say, is this what I want to do for the rest of my life?
	Because that's basically what it is.
	Yeah, I mean, you're not going to be playing no tennis up out there.
	I mean, who knows?
	Maybe in a thousand years from now, when we're someplace else.
	But you have to look at that.
	But from a tourist aspect, I mean, it's a very doable thing.
	And a lot of people who are listening to the show are going to be able to do that in the near future.
	I have some pretty powerful friends who have a whole lot of money.
	And in fact, they are working on this whole tourist angle Right now.
	I don't really know how much I can say.
	I know more than I can say.
	But there are facilities, let us say, that are being constructed by individuals for the purpose of making craft that will take tourists into space.
	You're aware of that?
	Sure.
	Our team is very capable of doing that, too, but it's called money.
	I mean, a lot of money, but we can do it.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Guy Michelson.
	Hello.
	Hi, Guy Michelson.
	I wanted to ask you if you have plans to recover this craft.
	Oh, yes.
	And I understand that the physics involved in that and the math involved in it must be, you know, pretty high level.
	Yes, we have a program to figure that out.
	For the government, we had to do a thousand simulations of situations if something happened.
	A thousand of them.
	Wow.
	So you're pretty confident you're going to be able to recover it then?
	Oh yeah, sure.
	Very much so.
	That's our whole goal, is to recover.
	I mean, that's a pretty good trophy that someday will probably be in the Smithsonian, because it'd be a part of history.
	I mean, it's very important that we... Yeah, it'd be the first private... Civilian.
	You know, amateur.
	Amateurs, yes.
	Launch into space.
	Yep.
	And you are willing, you think, to donate it to the Smithsonian?
	Well, yeah, that's where it would end up, eventually, yes.
	All right.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Kai Michelson.
	Hello?
	Art?
	Yes.
	I'm surprised you haven't played Rocket Man as bumper music yet tonight.
	Well, you obviously haven't heard the whole show, have you?
	No, not yet.
	It's not over yet.
	Well, I don't know how to tell you this, but I did it early on.
	And I must have blinked, I'm sorry.
	Listen, I'm calling about the payload, so you're sending up a transmitter that's going to go beep, beep, beep.
	Could I suggest that if you're going to be sending a transmitter up there, that maybe you send more of a substantial message that maybe people could tune into on shortwave or something like that?
	Well, that's plenty more hours of the Don and Mike Show, maybe.
	We have, I mean, we've talked about that and that's probably what we will do is, you know, get the ham radio operators involved in this in schools and the colleges.
	I go to school and teach rocket classes all the time.
	The University of Minnesota, the STEPS program to encourage women to get into engineering and stuff.
	I do five classes there a year with 30 girls in the class.
	Ty, I just happen to be a ham.
	Oh, great.
	Been a ham since I was 12.
	Oh, wow.
	I mean, we could put all kinds of things on your rocker.
	We could put APV, amateur television, up there.
	Yeah, well, actually, we have that right now.
	On the premiere of SpaceShot 2002, we do have television.
	Real-time color.
	Real-time color, yeah, absolutely.
	And also, for something that might orbit, I kind of agree with that color, that you could put some kind of message that would go way beyond a beep.
	You'd have to think about what the media would glom onto That would really get you a lot of news.
	I mean, you would definitely want that as the first private affair ever having done something like this.
	Yeah, I think that's a great idea.
	That's a great idea.
	All right.
	Hold it where you are.
	We've got one more segment to do.
	We'll continue to take questions for Kai Michelson.
	He built most of the rockets in October sky.
	He has a career that actually It's amazing he's even still alive, frankly.
	Your questions for Kai Michelson continue in a moment.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring coast to coast am from august 1st 2002 it's all clear
	the horse is on fire the road's like a wheel that's turning
	the love is in the heart be inside the sand, smell the touch of something
	Inside they mean so much.
	The sight of the touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak when it's deep in the ground.
	The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac and the sun again.
	Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
	To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing.
	I think about all these things in our memories, oh, and the uses that help us.
	Open the script, let the party begin.
	Right!
	They must be right!
	Jesus Christ!
	Have mercy!
	It's all a dream!
	I've worked for it for twenty-three years!
	Worked so hard, used to it last year!
	Have to end my life before I rest!
	But by now, I know, I'm here and I'm proud.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from August 1st, 2002.
	Good morning, everybody.
	Kyle...Ky-Michaelson.
	I just wanted to say Kyle.
	Ky-Michaelson.
	That's K-Y.
	He's my guest, one of our, well actually one of the world's greatest stuntmen, and a rocket man to boot.
	He's gonna be the first, or one of the first private individuals to launch a rocket into space.
	If you have questions for him, we've got open lines raging.
	Stay right there.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from August 1st, 2002.
	Alright, once again, Kai Michelson.
	I want to give Kai a chance to promote anything you want to promote.
	I know you've got your website, of course.
	And you sell rockets?
	I'm going to order one of your rockets, by the way.
	All right.
	I'm going for that big Kuvuna.
	Well, you mentioned he was talking about the song Rocket Man.
	Actually, I have a two-and-a-half-year-old boy, and his name is Buddy Rocket Man Michelson.
	That's his real name.
	Is it really?
	And hopefully someday he'll be an astronaut.
	I'm kind of grooming him for that.
	Is he taking off after you?
	Well, he's already owned a lot of rockets, I'll tell you that.
	Yeah, ever since he was very small, he was out in my toolbox, out in the shop.
	I pulled the drawer out and he was there, so he's been around it for two and a half years now, and hopefully he's going to be around a lot longer.
	Well, I hope so, too.
	I mean, it is, you've got to admit, under the best of circumstances, it is somewhat dangerous, building rockets.
	Especially at the beginning is somewhat, maybe even at the end.
	I mean, even for NASA, it's somewhat dangerous.
	So at the amateur level, it's got to be.
	Fairly dangerous.
	Well, you know, like the amateur rockets, I mean, like Nard and Tripoli, they have a tremendous amount of rules that we have to abide by.
	And it's like anything else.
	I mean, you really have to know your stuff and you have to be careful all the time, you know, because it's the simplest thing that will get you.
	That's the bottom line of it.
	And you have to do everything in a safe manner.
	All right, here we go.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Kai Michelson.
	Hello.
	Hello, Kai.
	My name is Chris.
	By the way, Bill, thank you so much for the Moody Blues.
	It brings back a lot of memories of doing observing stars and that with Moody Blues in the background.
	I'm kind of curious, Kai.
	This one that's going up now, is this one you hope to keep up for four years?
	Oh, no.
	No, first we want to prove to the government that we built a propulsion system and an airframe and all the electronics that we can do this.
	Once you do that, that's a big step.
	We've launched four other rockets up to this point right now where we're at.
	We have a record.
	We're not just talkers.
	We were just out there, like I mentioned before, a few weeks ago.
	Unfortunately, the SAM got the best of us out there.
	We're ready to launch another rocket.
	We have all the hard words all together.
	We're licensed and we're going back out again.
	Is it possible to see this when you finally do launch that other one?
	Yeah, as a matter of fact, Discovery is doing my life story.
	They're doing a...
	And the Learning Channel, they're doing a one-hour show on me.
	When will that be on?
	Oh my God, I just lost all of my phone lines.
	What happened?
	I just lost all of my phone lines.
	Every single last phone line just died.
	Man, that is weird.
	Obviously, I'm going to have to call Kai back right now.
	I've never seen that happen before.
	Let's see here.
	Let's see.
	I don't know if this is going to work.
	This is really weird.
	Gee.
	Weird.
	Weird stuff.
	Hello.
	Kai?
	Yeah.
	That was really weird.
	I don't know what happened.
	I had every line lit as we do when we're on the air.
	Every line went dead all at once.
	Oh, wow!
	Me, too!
	That is rude!
	Who did that one?
	Hold on one sec, okay?
	Let me lock this in.
	Okay, you're locked in.
	Wow!
	I wonder what just happened.
	Strange things.
	Anyway, we had a call around at the time, and I forget what he was asking you.
	Um, he was, um... Gee!
	You forgot it, too.
	My God!
	What happened to us?
	It was a good call, too.
	We've been away.
	We lost our thoughts.
	I mean, that just blew everything right out of my mind.
	Alright, well let's just continue.
	What the heck happened there?
	I forgot what I was thinking.
	Believe me, that was weird.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Kai Michaelson, hello.
	Hi there, this is Dale from Barksdale Air Force Base.
	Yes sir.
	How you doing there, Dale?
	Pretty good.
	I got something for Art, mostly.
	He wanted to get rid of a Ouija board.
	No, Art doesn't want to get rid of a Ouija board, sir.
	Art hasn't dealt with Ouija boards and such childish things in years, and doesn't.
	A wild card line, you're on the air, hello.
	Hi, this is Igor.
	Igor, that's a good name.
	Do your parents name you Igor?
	No, I kind of picked that up at the bar I used to work at.
	Yeah, I was the one that asked you about the demon seeds.
	Yes, what's your question, sir?
	Igor, sir.
	Yeah, it kind of sounds like if you need the test pilot, I'll be glad to volunteer.
	Well, we've never had an afterthought named Igor, I'll tell you that.
	Yeah, I was going to say, you know, to get back to Saddam... We weren't talking about Saddam, sir.
	We've got Kai as a guest, and he's a rocket guy here.
	Well, what you can do is put those seeds in there and send them over to Iran and Afghanistan and let them grow over there.
	I see.
	All right.
	Well, thank you.
	You might want to explain the difference, since we're talking about Iraq a little bit, between a rocket like you're building and a ballistic missile.
	Well, we have what you call a soundy rocket, originally, but it is ballistic.
	When we're building it, it goes Mach 5.
	Well, you know, we're talking Mach 5 in 15 seconds.
	We're talking about a tremendous amount of speed, a tremendous amount of heat buildup, because it's still in the atmosphere when it's going that speed.
	Well, no, I said ballistic missile.
	Now, what is the difference?
	A ballistic missile is something that you fire at the right angle to just, like, go as far as you can get it to go, right?
	Right, right.
	And, uh... You know, from off America, now it's all guided stuff.
	Yeah, well, you know, we're doing this thing now.
	Where we've got programs to stop ballistic missiles, they say, in flight.
	And they claim a couple of successes.
	Now, do you think it's going to be possible to actually stop a full-on thrust ballistic missile in flight?
	All I'm going to say is that Star Wars program or whatever, they better spend a lot of money on it and get really serious about it.
	Because we need to protect this nation.
	And the hard-working people of this nation.
	And I mean, look at that.
	I mean, the government got caught with their pants down on the 9-11 thing.
	That's for darn sure.
	And it just goes to show you that we're not as safe as we may think we are.
	You know, I don't want to be paranoid or anything like that, but that's the realistic part of it.
	And I'll tell you what, if some of these other nations, they get these nuclear warheads, I mean, they've got They've got missiles, I'll tell you what.
	I don't really like to talk too much about that.
	I just think we should be doing as much as we possibly can to protect this great nation.
	My question was, do you think that we can stop a ballistic missile in mid... Um, again, like you mentioned, uh, you know, we've done it on a couple occasions, but, uh, we need to do it, uh, you know, every single one that comes over here, so I think we need some more technology to do that.
	Uh, west of the Rockies, you're on the air with Kai Michelson.
	Hello?
	Hello?
	Going once.
	Yes, hello?
	Hello, my name is Mike, I'm calling from The Big One, KOGO, here in San Diego, California.
	Yes, sir.
	And, um, I'm calling about the Rocket Man.
	Yes.
	Now, if he could actually put the camera on the rocket so that we could see maybe the UFOs and the other stuff.
	And I'll listen off the air.
	All right, about the camera.
	Well, we do have a camera, and we're going to be using that for that documentary that we're working on.
	We're going to use that footage.
	We'll be able to see the curvature of the Earth and black sky, you know, to prove that it went into space.
	It's going to be cool when it happens.
	What is the highest you've ever flown?
	77,000 feet, you know.
	And then, like I mentioned before, we had a breakup of a rocket here.
	You know, I meant you personally.
	Oh, excuse me.
	With me in?
	In something, yeah.
	What's the highest you've ever flown?
	You mean launched a rocket?
	No, I meant flown.
	Well, you know, aircraft.
	Well, you know, I've been up in a lair, you know, of above 40,000 feet, you know.
	Forty?
	Yeah.
	I had an unusual opportunity to go between Las Vegas and Paris in a supersonic plane.
	Oh, I've always wanted to do that.
	I did that.
	We got up to 65,000 feet, and at a little better than Mach 2, and it was unblinking believable.
	I mean, you know, as you just pointed out, you could see the curvature of the Earth below you.
	Yep.
	You could see the blackness, you could see, it's like, horizontally it was purple, and then above you it was black.
	Yep.
	And that was cool beyond belief.
	What wasn't cool was the airplane.
	Uh, it was real hot.
	In fact, you couldn't put your hand on the windows.
	You know, a lot of times in a flight where you kind of, you get sleepy and you put your head down, you burn your head on the window.
	Yeah, that thing stretches and shrinks, you know, just from the heat, you know.
	That's right.
	Um, actually, they built the floor of the plane, uh, the Concorde, so that it would expand, it would expand several inches in flight.
	It was really odd.
	I got a lot of video and a lot... I got actually up in the cockpit of... Boy, you were lucky.
	I'll tell you that.
	You can't do that kind of stuff anymore.
	I got into the cockpit doing Mach 2.
	What a thrill.
	Yeah, it was pretty cool.
	What a thrill.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Kai Michelson.
	Hello.
	Hi, Mr. Michelson.
	Yes.
	I actually have a stuntman question for you.
	It's not along the line of rockets.
	How many injuries have you sustained over the...
	I've had a lot of broken bones, but those are my younger days.
	How many of your bones, actually, have you broken?
	Well, I've broken both arms, both wrists, collarbone, three brain concussions, a lot of broken toes, a lot of broken fingers, ribs, a number of ribs.
	Don't you find I've broken a few things?
	It's very disconcerting to break something.
	For one thing, it's never quite the same after you break it.
	Yeah, boy, now that I'm talking about it, I feel every break on my body.
	You see, there you are.
	And so, you know, when a rainstorm approaches, you just must be a total wreck.
	Yeah, I get out of bed in the morning.
	You know, some of the worst injuries that I have that still bother me are my broken toes.
	Toes, yeah?
	Oh, I want to tell you, they can get very, very painful.
	Well, I guess you know the routine then, you know, the cast and how long it takes and the whole damn routine.
	You've been through it so many times.
	Yep, that's for sure.
	That's just, that's like part of the price of doing the kind of work you do.
	It's all part of it.
	Yes.
	You know, Art, you've got a great show.
	You know, I've listened to your show a number of times when I was on the road and I've had a very good time tonight.
	Oh, I'm glad.
	You're a great host.
	Thank you.
	Good job.
	How much money?
	I'm just being really bottom line here.
	If a person goes successfully into a stunt career, what kind of money can they expect to make today?
	Well, it's a really specialized thing.
	There are some deals out there where you can live very well.
	You could become a millionaire from being a stuntman.
	These full-time guys, they make a tremendous amount of money.
	They're locked in there.
	Have you become a millionaire?
	Yeah, I've become a millionaire and I've spent it too.
	I've spent a lot of money.
	Actually, I've had way too much fun in my life.
	I have all the toys, the Corvette and all the stuff in the driveway.
	Hot Rods and all the toys.
	I'm still a big kid with a lot of toys.
	So you spend a lot of your money on your toys?
	Oh yeah.
	I understand that.
	To enjoy life, you work hard for it and you go out and do it.
	My theory on the perfect life is like this.
	You spend all the money you make, you walk over the gumball machine, drop your quarter in, pull it, and catch it as you hit the ground.
	Now, you've got a perfect life.
	Well, what you've got there is a stuntman's life.
	Yeah.
	Well, you never know when you're going to be in this.
	You just never know.
	I understand that.
	And some people devote their entire life to the accumulation as the main object of money.
	I mean, that's all they want to do.
	Accumulate more.
	It's no good unless you spend it.
	I mean, I've got 100 stories.
	I agree with that.
	It's one of the best ways of separating your family and having a family feud by leaving money to your family.
	I mean, you know, you work hard for it.
	Enjoy it.
	Enjoy it.
	That's the way I feel.
	My wife's got a very large life insurance policy on me.
	And when I'm gone, she's got the assets.
	And the Corvette.
	Yeah, and the Corvette, and the Hot Rods, and all the rest of the junk around her.
	Motorcycles and automobiles.
	That's why I'm going to be ordering your big Kahuna.
	Yeah, well that's great.
	What else is there to do with it?
	East of the Rockies, you're on there with Kai Martin.
	Michaelson, hello.
	Hello, Cox.
	I didn't catch, are you flying liquid or solid fuel?
	No, it's a solid propellant, what we're doing.
	They're very similar to what the boosters of the shuttle are.
	Okay, one more question.
	Have you ever heard of Pulse Detonation Engines?
	If you haven't, or if you have... Who?
	I'm sorry, I didn't hear the name.
	Who?
	This is David... Pulse Jet?
	No.
	Is that Pulse Jet?
	Pulse detonation rocket engine.
	Oh, okay, thank you.
	Yeah, pulse detonation propulsion.
	Well, it's something I surely haven't messed with, that's for sure.
	But, you know, there's these stories about contrails that are nothing but donuts.
	Yeah.
	And there's these stories about this thing called the Aurora that comes in from the Pacific and they've actually shown the sonic waves to show where this thing has come from.
	They claim that part of its propulsion system involves virtual detonations.
	Little bombs going off.
	Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
	Driving it faster and faster.
	Do you know anything about that kind of propulsion?
	No, no, no.
	I mean, all a rocket is, is all it is is a controlled explosion.
	That's exactly what a rocket is, is a controlled explosion.
	Right, but this apparently starts making a rocket go faster and faster.
	In almost no atmosphere, riding on the coattails of each explosion.
	You can imagine.
	Yeah, I'll be honest with you, I know nothing about them.
	All right.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Kai Michelson.
	Hello.
	Yes, hi Art.
	We're only allowed one call per show, sir.
	I appreciate it, though.
	I could tell from your background.
	First time caller of the line, you're on the air with Kai Michelson.
	Hello.
	Yeah, I just got a question real fast.
	Kind of follows along the lines of the balloons.
	Yes, go ahead.
	Doesn't it work a little bit better to launch them horizontal and then send them up vertical?
	As opposed to just standing straight up?
	Oh boy, you never get away with that, you know, in the country, you know, in the United States.
	There's just not a large enough area to do that.
	Yeah, well that's what the X class of aircraft, some of the early test aircraft were shown dropped out of the belly of a B-52 and then they'd travel and then all of a sudden they'd ignite the rockets and away they go.
	I think that's what he was talking about.
	Yeah, well, I mean, you know, it's something that we could not do.
	And yes, it would be much easier if you could.
	Well, you need the belly of a B-52, and that's not going to be cheap right away.
	Yeah, I mean, you've got to realize this thing is going over 4,000 miles an hour in 15 seconds.
	Can you imagine how far that that can go in 15 seconds?
	Yes, I can.
	Our flight is a minute and a half into space when you push the button.
	So that's 62 miles.
	That's incredible.
	A minute and a half.
	Zero to 60 in about... Well, zero to 500 in under a second.
	By the way, folks, he's given me the rough date and the place, and I'm going to go and watch this launch.
	That'd be great.
	I'll be recording it for you all.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Kai Michelson.
	Hello.
	Hi, my name is Bobby.
	Where are you, Bobby?
	I'm in Oklahoma.
	Okay, not a lot of time, so go ahead.
	Okay.
	Yeah, me and my fiancé would just like to say if there is any Indian land that he would like to use, then we have about six acres of land out here in Oklahoma that he could use.
	It's Indian land.
	Yeah, we need a thousand acres.
	We need at least 26 miles.
	There's a problem there.
	26 miles?
	We need at least 26 miles, so there's a problem there.
	26 miles?
	Yep.
	So that means probably you end up talking to the Bureau of Land Management, because
	they're the kind of people out here in Nevada who have that kind of land.
	Yeah, as a matter of fact, the people we've been working with have been very cooperative.
	That's been the easiest part of this whole thing, is working with those people.
	Well, you're a doer, alright.
	Listen, again, You've got a website.
	Anything else you want to plug while we've got a few seconds?
	If anybody is interested in getting involved in this project, we can always use some money.
	We've got this thing with the calling card.
	If you want to put a calling card in the space, you can go to our website.
	I think we have enough room for like 150 cards.
	Our weight is a very, you know, one pound of weight will be one less mile that we'll
	So we only have a small payload section that we can put this in.
	So to contact you, I assume the email address to contact you is on the website, right?
	Yes.
	So one way or the other, whatever people are interested in, your website, which is linked on our page tonight.
	Boy, what a pleasure having you on.
	It really has been nice.
	You know, I've really enjoyed this show.
	And, you know, anytime if you'd like me to come back, I would love to do that, okay?
	Why don't we do it after the launch?
	That'd be great.
	Done deal.
	See you up there at Black Rock.
	All right.
	Take care now.
	Take care.
	That's Kai Michelson, folks.
	I'm Art Bell from the high desert.

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