Ky Michaelson, stuntman and rocket engineer, shares his struggles with chronic back pain while pivoting to discuss amateur rocketry’s regulatory battles—FAA, BLM, and NASA hurdles stifle launches like his Premier Space Shot 2002, a 20-foot rocket hitting Mach 5 in 15 seconds. He critiques U.S. space stagnation post-1969, contrasts it with China’s progress, and speculates on UFOs after sightings near D.C., despite dismissing fringe ideas like "seed rockets." His $900 "Big Kahuna" kit and past projects (e.g., rocket-powered wheelchairs) highlight innovation suppressed by bureaucracy, though he insists safety—like explosive charges and Black Rock Desert landings—is paramount. Michaelson’s passion stems from overcoming childhood dyslexia and family legacy, fueling dreams of civilian spaceflight and even his son’s astronaut ambitions, all while pushing for private-sector breakthroughs. [Automatically generated summary]
Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere Inside, tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 1st, 2002, from the high desert as the great American Southwest of the New Hall.
Everybody's asking me, well, as you know, I have a bad back.
One of these days, I think I'm going to just post the results of my MRI, my latest MRI, for you to see.
And then those of you who are so medically inclined can take a look.
It's L4 and L5, and they're both reaching out and abutting the main nerves, which are, you know, like S1.
technically as one which is your site and when uh...
when it comes out with a split this material about it touches as one i have uh...
I have these back spasms that curl me up like a dried prune that I am.
And they don't let me walk, and they don't let me do much of anything, actually, except sit there in pain.
That's about it.
And over the last couple weeks, I've had recurring times when that has happened.
You know, it's happened again and again.
And I was getting better, for example, on Tuesday.
This is kind of an interesting story.
Now, you see L5, the bottom of your back, just above your butt, supports all the weight of the human body.
Whether you're sitting or whether you're standing, it supports all your weight or not.
So anyway, I was feeling better.
And I went back to my doctor for an appointment on Tuesday.
And I thought I'd be cute, sign in a little early, about 30 minutes early, you know, because you go by doctor's time, right?
Not patient time, doctor's time.
And so I thought I'd be cute and sign in a little early.
Well, I sat there and thought I'd sneak in early.
And anyway, I ended up sitting for two hours waiting for the doctor.
Now, bear in mind, I was feeling better.
After sitting there for two hours, my back went into spasms again.
By the time I saw the doctor, I was all locked up again.
So there went another day.
Now, here I am.
I can't guarantee when I will be here and when I will not be here.
That's guaranteed by my back.
You know, I have several really super unattractive options that have been given to me with regard to my back.
I can get these shots into the spine, I'm told, but I'm told they will only last a short while, a week, a month, even a few months.
But, you know, there's certain dangers in that.
You get out and do things you shouldn't do.
And besides that, this stuff that they shoot into your back will always be there.
When you're buried, if they were to dig you up, this stuff would still be there.
And you've got to keep getting these shots.
And so that's one option.
The other option, of course, is surgery.
And I am warned by my doctor that I'd be out of my mind if I did that.
That most of his patients that he sent off for that kind of to neurosurgeons, with my specific condition, bear that in mind, have come back about two weeks later and said everything's wonderful.
And then a year later, they're worse than they were in the first place or crippled.
And the odds of success are maybe 50-50.
And the odds of failure are 50-50.
And so it's like throwing dice a little bit.
And so trying to decide when to alter your life and do this kind of surgery is not an easy thing to do.
And pretty much you don't do it until life has become so unbearable that you can't do anything else or you just can't walk.
So that's kind of what's been going on with me.
Now, let's get to the matter at hand, tonight's program.
A lot of stuff to catch up on that I want to catch up on with you.
Headline tonight, the FBI and Postal Service.
This is really interesting.
The headline is, Anthrax clues sought at Maryland Department.
FBI and Postal Service agents wearing protective gloves conducted a second search today at the Department of a former Army researcher considered a, quote, person of interest, end quote, in the investigation last year's deadly anthrax mailings.
The FBI gained a search warrant to look inside Stephen J. Hatfield's residence, according to two U.S. government officials.
FBI Director Robert Mueller said, quote, we're making progress in the case, but I can't comment on ongoing aspects of the investigation.
Hatville, he said, is not a suspect, and no physical evidence links him to any of the letters.
But you've got to wonder about a story like this.
Why, I wonder, would the FBI release a story that becomes a number one story for the hour with this man's name in connection with this if there's no physical evidence or anything else that connects him to the case?
So when you look behind the story, you've got to wonder why are they releasing this now?
Why?
He's not a suspect.
But they released his name.
That's a hell of a thing to do, huh?
You know, if he's not a suspect and there's no evidence, boy, oh boy, oh boy.
So there's more to the story than meets the eye, as there is with so many stories like this.
They released this for a specific reason.
Israeli troops led by 150 armored vehicles rolled into Nablus and entered the narrow alleyways of the old city early Friday, all in retaliation apparently to a bombing in Jerusalem that killed seven people a couple days ago.
Yesterday, was it?
Teenage girl, boy, there's been a lot of this going on.
Two teenage girls abducted at gunpoint early today from a lover's lane were rescued.
Here's a good ending for you for a change.
About 100 miles away from their point where they were kidnapped.
The kidnapper crashed his getaway car, was shot to death by sheriff's deputies.
County Sheriff Carl Spartan said that he was certain the kidnapper was minutes away from killing the girls and had chosen a remote location in the high desert.
So too damn much of that going on lately, for sure.
Iraq.
Iraq is asking the UN for an arms meeting.
Now, GY would have a surprise movie.
Iraq on Thursday invited the chief UN weapons inspector to Baghdad for talks, it said could lead to the return of inspectors after nearly four years.
Now, let's think about that.
Why would Iraq invite the inspectors back or even invite the chief inspector talk about inviting the inspectors back?
Well, because we've been rattling our swords about Iraq.
In fact, here's an interesting story.
Iraqi buildup near border put Kuwait on heightened alert.
Kuwait has drafted an emergency plan in coordination with the U.S. as officials reported an Iraqi buildup near the Kuwaiti border.
That sounds familiar.
On Monday, the Kuwaiti Daily reported that authorities have canceled all vacations for civil defense employees until further notice.
Newspaper said the move is part of a heightened preparation for an Iraqi attack.
The Kuwaiti cabinet was presented with what was described as an emergency plan to counter an Iraqi military strike on the Shaiktim over the next year.
Kuwaiti officials said the plan warns the Shaitim can expect to be the first target of an Iraqi attack either prior to or during any U.S. military campaign to topple the regime of President Saddam Hussein.
The Kuwaiti plan called the Iraqi military build-up near the Kuwaiti border.
The plan discussed on Sunday by the cabinet is meant to respond to both internal and external threats from the Saddam regime.
So we've rattled our swords and now they're saying, well, let's come have the chief arms inspector come back and talk about having all of his troops come back and inspect our stuff.
Not chance.
More in a moment.
unidentified
there is so much more Get a new view of the world with Coast to Coast AM.
At this point, I'm not happy with the direction that government is taking us.
I'm happy with the fact that Americans are beginning to wake up and stand up and do what they have to do and shout and scream and blog.
And I think that's critical.
And I think that's what's going to save the Republic.
I think in the long run, as we go through all this stuff, it's the people who will save us and our country will remain strong.
Coast to Coast AM sure sounds great in the middle of the night.
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First of all, I want to just thank you for bringing everyone out here to Cornea Copia just phenomenal knowledge.
I don't know of anyone else that I've ever listened to at radio that just fills my brain and stimulates me.
You know, I was listening to the show and I thought to myself, do you think, George, the common citizen such as you or I, really has any hope towards the future of any privacy or anything else?
I think we do.
I think eventually so many people will see the light, see what you see, see what I see, that eventually they're going to say enough is enough.
And I think that we do have a future and we're going to win in the long run.
It's going to be bumpy along the way.
It's not going to be easy, but we will get there.
That's my take.
And you know what?
As long as I can continue on the earwaves and tell people this, I shall.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from August 1st, 2002.
Music There was an occurrence while I was away that not enough attention was paid to, and it happened in the skies over our capital in Washington.
Oh, Maryland.
What was that bright light in Maryland, in Maryland sky?
The Air National Guard in this story confirms the 113th Squadron scrambled over Maryland.
WTOP, that's Washington, has learned that residents near Andrews Air Force Base were shaken From their beds early Friday morning by some very strange activity in the air.
That'd be a week ago, right?
Incredible, absolutely incredible, said Rennie Rogers of Waldorf.
Just before 2 in the morning, Rogers said he saw a huge blue ball of light streaking across the sky, but it was military jets that really startled him.
In other words, a pair of F-16s got on its tail right behind him.
And he's not the only one who saw it.
Several people called WTOP radio reporting seeing a bright blue or orange ball moving very fast, being chased by jets.
By the way, Rogers said there was no smoke coming from the object, no flashing lights, said that it was smooth and eerily silent.
Now the Air National Guard confirms they scrambled the 113th Squadron.
They're investigating and they're in contact with NORAD and it was said that this object left the F-16s in the dust.
And they do, military officials do acknowledge that the F-16s went after, quote, a track of interest, end quote, plotted on radar.
But they said everything was fine and they went home.
Everything was fine and they went home.
And that's the end of this story as far as they're concerned.
Everything was fine and they went home.
Now let me get this straight.
In this post-9-11 era, when we're watching every inch of our skies, an object that can make F-16s look like ants crawling across a piece of paper takes off, is plotted on radar, and at the end of the whole thing, they say, oh, but everything was fine, and they went home, referring to the F-16s.
Right-oh.
So I thought more attention ought to be called to that incident.
Pretty significant incident in ufology, I would certainly say.
The following is from Jane's, you know, Jane's Defense Weekly.
I wonder if anybody out there caught this one.
Anti-gravity propulsion comes, quote, out of the closet, end quote.
Say what?
Anti-gravity propulsion comes out of the closet.
Boeing, the world's largest aircraft manufacturer, has admitted it is working on experimental anti-gravity projects that could overturn a century of conventional aerospace propulsion technology if the science underpinning them can be engineered into hardware.
As part of the effort, which is being run out of Boeing's Phantom Works Advanced Research and Development Facility in Seattle, the company is trying to solicit the services of a Russian scientist who claims that he's developed anti-gravity devices in Russia and Finland.
The approach, however, has been thwarted by Russian officialdom.
The Boeing Drive to develop a collaborative relationship with the scientist in question has its own internal project name.
It's called GRASP, G-R-A-S-P, Gravity Research for Advanced Space Propulsion.
A weird story that caught my attention entitled Army Wives Killed at U.S. Base.
You know about that one, right?
The U.S. military is investigating a disturbing series of murders apparently involving U.S. Special Forces soldiers who recently served in Afghanistan.
Four soldiers, all based at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, are accused of killing their wives.
The military, insofar as, and boy, by the way, this came from the BBC, of course.
Yeah, some domestic sources had it, but this comes from the BBC.
These soldiers, just coming back from Afghanistan, four of them at one place killed their wives.
Of course, they're going to say coincidence, but that's a pretty big coincidence, I would say, wouldn't you?
So I'm wondering, heartily wondering about this story.
Only wondering about this story.
What could have happened in Afghanistan?
Would the U.S. government have done anything or could they have, you know, could it have been some sort of something they picked up over there, something they had in common in Afghanistan that would have caused this incredible thing to occur?
I mean, this is just, you talk about the world of coincidences, four of them coming back and then doing this.
Oh, that smacks of the 60s, doesn't it?
And I'm not saying that any sort of experimental anything went on, but it did once go on in this country, didn't it?
Where they gave civilians and military personnel hits of acid, LSD, mind control experiments in America.
So is this bad?
I'm not saying so, but one has to wonder a little bit, doesn't one?
A big brother.
Here comes Big Brother coming to LA.
Cameras to help keep South Los Angeles alleys clean.
This is something just hit the press tonight.
Police, fed up with trash-filled alleys, have unveiled the first of 11 special motion sensor cameras that they hope will deter illegal dumping and as well graffiti in Los Angeles.
A power pole mounted camera in watts is designed to snap a picture of an, and then audibly warned, get this, anyone spotted loitering in a junk-filled alley, said police on Wednesday, the steel-encased camera designed to withstand a bullet, good thing, plans a recorded warning that police hope will act as a deterrent.
The Drift Back in Time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
More Somewhere in Time coming up.
Come walk with me.
Gonna die on the dead way Get in with me Shows my four people to me I'm troubled to cry Got another
love the way you like you the move I know we get you What can I do?
What can I do?
You make me happy with your money and me and me.
Silver threads and golden needles Till I've been this heart of mine And I dare not drown myself In the warm water wide But you think I should be happy With your money and your name And hide myself in sorrow While you
play your kitten game Silver threads and golden needles And I've made but heart of mine If I dare
not drown my soul You are listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 1st, 2002.
Music Oh, by the way, one more medical addendum for all of us, not just me.
West Nile virus is sickening people far earlier this summer than usual, spreading so quickly.
It's hit 33 states.
I mean, you remember what was it just in New York?
And now it's hit 33 states as far west as South Dakota.
And they say it's going to reach California this year or next.
Nobody knows how bad the mosquito-borne illness might get, although a rapidly growing outbreak among 32 people in Louisiana began a month earlier than West Nile has ever struck in the USA.
A big worry indeed, but it's clear the virus first detected in New York City a mere three years ago has become a permanent summertime threat in most states.
Apparently, in the next year or two, it will be everywhere, including where you are.
That really does sound like a time traveler to me.
How about you?
Had to be instructed how to use a gas pump.
Well, I suppose if you came from an age where the only motivation around getting around was forces, well then you wouldn't much know how to use a gas pump.
Of course you've got to figure the guy drove up in something, right?
Got to know something about cars.
Weird story.
Wildheart line, you're on the air.
Hello.
unidentified
Hello, Art.
Hello, sir.
It's really hard to top that one, but you know, stranger things have happened.
Yeah, well, if you watch, there was actually an episode on the twilight of that same exact incident where a guy from the Civil War was found in the desert by a driver buying a car.
Well, wouldn't it be the damnedest thing if because we shoot and chase UFOs, shoot at them, that when contact eventually comes, it comes to some formerly third world nation somewhere that all of a sudden has this technology dropped on them that makes them king of the hill.
And all because we shot at these things, like Stephen Greer says.
unidentified
That's exactly right.
And we're pretty much ahead of everybody else in the UFO investigation field since World War II.
We've been documenting with the Foo Fighters and, you know, the so-called gremlins that, you know, Imagine a headline.
I don't know how it would read.
Bangladesh dictates terms to world.
Maybe something like that.
Bangladesh takes over world, you know, welcomes technology that the U.S. would not allow anywhere near its shores without a threat of terminal bodily harm.
And so they go to Bangladesh or something.
And that's it for us.
Easy the Rockies are on the air.
Hello.
Hello?
Yes, hello.
unidentified
Yes, you know, I'm really concerned about this save rattling against Iraq.
And I think that people have got to start using their own head because the Democrats, the Republicans, and the corporate media, which interlocks with the military-industrial corporations in this country, always bipartisanly support wars, interventions that cause the deaths of millions of people abroad and hundreds and thousands of Americans to feed on.
There have been a recording of very well-documented examples of the Iraqi nuclear and biological programs, which were well underway during the last war and have been going ever since, full tilt.
I might add at the expense of the Iraqi people who have not been eating at times when we've allowed them to sell oil.
That money has not gone where it was intended.
It was gone toward the manufacture of weapons of mass destruction, which are specifically designed to kill us, Israelis, and us, as in the U.S. So you're just flat out wrong about that.
And I understand your bias.
You hate all the powers that be, the military-industrial complex, which we were warned about by Eisenhower, and the power structure in this country and every other country that is attempting to wage a war on terrorism.
And I understand exactly where you're coming from.
Well, if we have a category of you better be careful what you ask for because the next time there are certain prescribed things that are going to occur next time he rolls into town.
And so you just might want to be real careful about that.
unidentified
Well, if we're not afraid of him, maybe he'd show up.
Rocketman is actually how he answered the telephone when I called a couple minutes ago, so I thought I'd pull this one out.
So he said, Rocketman!
His name is Kai Michelson.
And here's a little info on Kai.
Speed and danger have always fascinated Kai Michelson since attempting to fly as a child to get his folks by leaping off a hill with two ironing boards attached to his bike.
I never thought of that.
Descending his best friend off the top of Toronto's soaring CN Tower, Kai has broken a multitude of records and almost every bone in his body, performing daring feats of all sorts, rigging hundreds of stunts and special effects with his diversified background.
Kai regarded as one of the most creative stuntmen in the television and motion picture industry today, a native of Minnesota.
His professional career began by the age of 15 when he got behind the wheel of the first race car.
For the next 15 years, he went on racing motorcycles, dragsters, rocket-powered cars, snowmobiles.
He's set 72 national and international speed records.
He's become the highest-paid drag racer in the country.
In addition, Guy also pioneered the new development of rocket-powered engines.
Racing one of his specially designed vehicles, Kitty O'Neill raced 1,320 feet in only 3.72 seconds.
Oh my God.
Officially traveling at 396 miles an hour in 3.72 seconds.
Guy's penchant for rockets expended well beyond the world of racing.
He put his rocket engines on everything from roller skates to canoes.
His work in this area led to the nickname Rocket Man and a coveted file in the Smithsonian for his developments to hydrogen peroxide rocket racing.
Do you remember that wonderful movie, October Sky?
Oh God, what a great movie that was.
He built all the rockets for October Sky.
His most memorable stunt, one that resembled his childhood flying fiasco, took place at the world's tallest freestanding structure, Dar Robinson, Hollywood's number one stuntman, was featured in ABC's 60-minute special titled The World's Most Spectacular Stuntman.
Kai was responsible for designing all of those stunts.
After countless tests, weather interferences, and sleepless nights, Kai sent his friend off the top of the CM Tower in Toronto.
To catch Dara's 1,200-foot fall as he neared the ground, Kai included a 1-8-inch steel cable.
How dangerous was Kai's most spectacular stunt?
Well, less than one minute after Robinson safely touched the ground, the wind, the wind, snapped the cable.
He formed a company in 1969 called Hollywood Suntmasters.
With over 30 years experience as a stuntman, stunt coordinator with special effects, he's worked with shows like Live, Live and Die in L.A., Stick, Drop Dead Fred, Sharky's Machine, Purple Haze, Catch Me If You Can, The Bridge Scanners 3, 17 times on That's Incredible Live, The World's Greatest Stunts, The Ultimate Challenge, Super Stunt 1 and 2, World's Most Spectacular, Stuntman, America's Most Wanted, Unsolved Mysteries, also a member of the Stuntman's Hall of Fame.
Currently, Kai is the program director and launch director of Civilian Space Exploration Team, CSXT.
The CSXT team is going to be the first of a number of civilian-based groups that are going to attempt to send a rocket into space and have it return to Earth safely with a full recovery.
Mike Heim Michelson coming right up.
unidentified
Mike Heim Michelson: Take Coast to Coast AM with you anywhere on your mobile phone.
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You are listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 1st, 2002.
But how I first started that, my father had a book.
It was called The Book of Colliers.
And in there was a picture of a man sitting on top of a wooden rocket with a leather helmet on.
And then the next picture below it said, and he lived the telephone.
The question is, where was he going?
This is back in the 20s when really the only motors that you had was black powder.
And so I got inspired with rockets.
And, well, I was young at the time.
And so the next best thing to flying was to put my mom's ironing boards on my bicycle and pedal down the hill where I went to school as fast as I could.
You know, you hear of a lot of people that want to launch rockets in the space, amateurs.
And we consider ourselves as an amateur.
I mean, we have a ton of experience, but you have to go through the Space Transportation Department, the FAA, you have to go through the BLM, the Barrel Land Management.
You have to go through an environmental impact study.
Speaking of getting killed, Kai, there's another fellow I've interviewed twice now in Oregon, calls himself Rocket Man, or other people call him Rocket Man.
And he intends to launch himself into space.
Well, actually, not into space, but into a very high altitude and then very near space and then return.
And he's building this rocket.
I mean, he's got pictures on his website.
And do you think this guy is going to kill himself?
Well, we start talking a little bit further out about our project we just launched in June or where we had to launch, we had to scrub because of the winds of the Black Rock.
We'll talk a little bit more about the federal government.
Well, that's what this fellow up in Oregon has said, is a tough deal, and he might as well just go ahead and do it and accept the consequences, and it's a once-in-a-lifetime thing, so he's going to do it.
Question is, do you think he's going to live if he does it?
Well, I'll tell you what, he better have a pretty good test program because I myself, I'm willing To bet any amount of money with anybody on that deal, that he will never do it.
And I wish him luck, but I just don't believe he's going to do it.
What he really gets right down to doing it, I don't think he'll do it.
I think he'll sell a lot of toys by the time it's over with, but launching that rocket, I don't believe it.
I looked at the design a number of times when he first started, and he wasn't even close.
Well, you know, you had some of a roll cage type in there, and I don't know if he's fallen at 15 feet per second, but I would assume that that would be.
I mean, guys crashing cars at 200, 300 miles an hour all the time will walk away.
Well, it's like that spinning saw blade that, you know, you're told don't touch or don't touch the hot stove.
It's kind of the same deal.
Well, I dare you.
And there is a little bit of that, but I'll tell you, the stunts out there right now in this day and age are very well thought out and very well engineered.
In fact, I'll tell you what, if you watch Ripley's, Believe It or Not, you know, like when they're in between the commercials and they come back and they show part of that, you'll see me in that wheelchair.
In other words, they say, look, we want somebody to put rockets on this car and crash it into the side of the mountain to like this urban legend, and then you get to bid on that.
First off, that motor has approximately 1,000 pounds of thrust, and for like 15 seconds thereabouts, that won't give you the kind of speed in a 3,000 or 4,000-pound car.
But I will tell you, there's a guy by the name of Bobby Tatcho, he's passed away now, and Walt Arphons that built a car called the Wingfoot Express.
It had 24 Jado bottles on, and it went just under 500 miles an hour at the Salt Flats.
And if you look at my website, you'll see it in there.
Out of a matter of curiosity, when you're in a car and you're just about to push the button on a rocket motor, what goes through your mind, like just in that split second before you go ahead and do it?
Well, I started racing cars at a young age, and you just start meeting people.
And later on, actually, because I dabbled in the business, and I got hooked up with a fellow by the name of Dar Robinson, and a friend of mine, Jim Deist, who makes parachutes and stuff, he says, you know, you two got to get together.
And we got together, we decided to do the biggest stunts that were ever performed in Hollywood.
And at the time, the only thing you really saw in movies like Bullet and stuff like that, you really didn't see high falls, fire gags, and the stuff that you see on the screen now.
And we developed the descenders and accelerators for jumping off large buildings.
When guys were jumping 30, 40 feet into cardboard boxes, Dar jumped over 310 feet into an airbag that we made specifically for him.
I mean, you see people jumping with bungee cables.
Now, I understand that, because bungee, you know, it pulls you back up, theoretically, and then bounces you, but a steel cable would seem like it would just rip off your foot and you'd crash.
And so anyways, the CN Tower's big car, a curved building up on top, and the director hollers action.
And Dar and I start coming into the frame of the camera.
And before we got there, Darr grabbed me by the shoulder and he says to me, Hi, if I bounce, I want every camera out there busted.
I don't want to be on the front page of nobody's paper.
And I says, Dar, what are you saying?
What are you saying, Dar?
And I started, and of course the director is going, action, action, because they're rolling film.
And it's very expensive.
So anyways, I take about two more steps and he says, I'll tell you what, if performing autopsy on me, if I hit, they're going to find sand in my eyes, because I'm going to keep my eyes open till I hit the ground.
And when he told me that, by the time we came into the camera frame, I mean, I was shaking.
I was shaken more than him.
And he sat on the edge of the building, and he says, Kai, I love you guys.
And he jumped.
I didn't think he was going to jump.
And he jumped.
And what had happened was this device, the CAM device that I told you, we had some mechanical problems with that.
So then we hooked up a couple of hand brakes, hydraulic brakes onto it that were manipulated by me.
Now, if I was to pull him too hard too quick, it would snap that line just like a fish line.
You know, the people will say to me, well, why do you risk your life?
You know, how far, what do you have to do to make $60,000?
You know, a man that makes $60,000 in a year and he goes to work all those times, he's going to be at more risk than we are to stick our neck out for 30 seconds and make $60,000.
And some of the bigger, larger high falls that we did, like in Stick and Sharky's Machine, those were what the payoffs were.
It's a very small percentage, but probably the most dangerous thing that you can do is a high fall.
There's been a number of people who have actually gone right through the airbag or have missed the airbag.
And, you know, every couple of years it just seems like I hear somebody that's lost their life.
And, you know, nowadays with all the special effects and things that they're doing digitally, it really doesn't make sense to have a man or woman risk their life in that way.
This is Coast to Coast AM, screaming across the nation at speed.
of light this is premier networks that was art bell hosting coast to coast a m on this somewhere in time back in the u.s back in the bad old days in the heat of a summer night in the land of the dollar bill when the town of chicago dies they talk about it still when
When a man named El Capone tried to make that town his own.
I feel so warm, I'm in my connection, I had a second chance.
Yeah, there's a storm on the moon, a siren in my head.
Grab the blue signs and talk to get the dead.
Can I be cold, my whole life spins into a grand bed.
Now my seventh year's twilight zone, the head's in my house.
Here's my key song, my key comes in blue, black and moon and star.
Where am I going now that I fall too far?
You were gone and gone, for the bullet and the bone.
You were gone and gone, when the bullet hits the bone.
I'm falling down the spiral, just permission unknown.
to art bell somewhere in time tonight featuring coast to coast a.m. from august 1st 2002 well i found it the big kahuna here it is uh let's see it weighs 55 pounds its diameter is 11 feet 41 inches it's uh it's a it's 19 feet 7 inches tall that's perfect it's got three fins uh and you can read all about it that's big kahuna and that just go oh so well in my front yard it's according
to his website uh 875 dollars that that one's going right out front baby right out front i'm Art Bell my guest is Kai Michelson.
be right back.
unidentified
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First of all, I want to just thank you for bringing everyone out here to Corneaucopia just phenomenal knowledge.
I don't know of anyone else that I've ever listened to at radio that just fills my brain and stimulates me.
You know, I was listening to the show and I thought to myself, do you think, George, the common citizen such as you or I, really has any hope towards the future of any privacy or anything else?
I think we do.
I think eventually so many people will see the light, see what you see, see what I see, that eventually they're going to say enough is enough.
And I think that we do have a future and we're going to win in the long run.
It's going to be bumpy along the way.
It's not going to be easy, but we will get there.
That's my take.
And you know what?
As long as I can continue on the earwaves and tell people this, I shall.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 1st, 2002.
When it reaches the apogee itself, just beyond that, we have an explosive charge, a lineal charge, where we're going to cut the rocket in half, and out there is going to come a couple of ballistic parachutes.
And we've got pingers on board.
We've got two GPS that are going to lock up on it.
And we know where it's going to land in order for it to come back.
It's a solid propellant motor, very similar to what they use on the boosters of the shuttle.
It's a highly aluminized propellant and ammonium perchlorate.
And I won't tell the rest of the chemicals, but it's, you know, once you light it, Yeah, it sure did.
It sure did.
Probably the most dangerous part of making a motor itself is when you put the aluminum in because of the dust and things like that.
But we do it in a very safe environment, and we've got experience working with it.
We started this project in 1995, building smaller motors and building bigger and bigger and bigger, and now we're up to what's known as an S20,000, and that's the largest ever built by amateurs, the largest motor.
Like if you go and buy like an Estes motor, you've got an A motor, well then if you buy a B motor, that's twice as big as an A, and then if you go to C, that's twice as big, so they multiply in size.
Well, what happened is then the Space Transportation Department was put into place in 1984, I believe, to facilitate people like me to put rockets in space.
And the bottom line is they never even had a licensing thing.
I mean, they didn't have a piece of paper if they could send out for me to even fill.
And there was like 25 members of this cast group that went in there to be licensed.
And every one of them was so disheartened because of all the red tape that they got in Washington, D.C., that they quit.
And out of that whole bunch, we were the only ones to go out to the Black Rock Desert and launch a rocket.
And the rocket that we did launch reached the speed of 3,205 miles an hour, which is the fastest vehicle ever built by a civilian and an amateur.
And unfortunately, when it reached what's known as Max Q, there was a very bad wind shear.
And it made the rocket bobble, and it put it under a lot of g-forces, and it ended up breaking the airframe up on it.
We redesigned the rocket, and so it will be able to withstand those type of g-forces if they come about again.
But we've also developed all our own weather recording equipment now, and we launch balloons to various altitudes.
Normally we would call down to Reno, and they launch balloons there.
But now we launch a balloon to 5,000 feet, 10,000 feet, and our next one we're going to launch to 40,000 feet.
So we won't have to be in contact with Reno.
And that's going to open up our window.
I mean, believe it or not, this last time we were out, our actual launch windows was just 10 minutes.
And another interesting story is that we have to contact four airports that block out the 40 square miles that are around where we launch.
And the last one that we called, they didn't answer the telephone.
I mean, it was almost like a catch-22.
And I'm going, what do you mean they don't answer the telephone?
It took me four days before I reached Phelan Naval Base.
And they said, why do you have to call here?
I says, because it's on our list.
It's something we have to do.
If we don't, it's a $100,000 fine.
And he says, this is a quote from him.
He says, I don't know, but somebody in Washington, D.C. must be smoking some bad weed.
I asked him his name.
Couldn't he wouldn't tell me?
But, I mean, the stuff that they have made us go through to get through these hoops, I doubt in this day and age, the Wright brothers would ever fly if they had to go through these agencies and get all wound up in all this red tape.
Well, through it all, I mean, pushing through the red tape and all the rest of this to get, I mean, why in the world do you actually want to be the first private citizen to put a rocket into space?
Well, you know, I'll tell you, it goes all the way back when I was a young boy, when I went to school.
I'm totally dyslexic.
And I was called stupid, dumb, and I don't want your kind around here when I was a young boy.
And that gave me my personality that I have and the drive that I have.
And, you know, I hold 72 state national and national speed records and a lot of outer things that I've accomplished in my life that I'm really proud of.
Well, you know, I pretty much have educated myself.
To this day, my mind, you know, my mind itself will not allow me to divide.
I mean, there's a lot of things that I can't do, but if I can't do it, somebody else surely can do it.
Or that's what you've got computers for, you know.
But now I love history.
You know, I love to learn.
Every day, you know, I watch the Learning Channel or Discovery or History.
And, I mean, I'm just totally in that.
I try to keep packing stuff into my brain.
And, you know, I mean, I just love this.
And I've done a lot of research in this rocket program.
Isn't that something we just jumped into?
And we also have, I mean, when we first started this program out, it was my wife and I. And then Jerry Larson came into it, and then Eric Knight came into it.
And now there's approximately 30 amateurs that are involved in some of the universities and schools that have built some of the electronic packages for us and the avionics and stuff like that.
So it's a true amateur project.
And lo and behold, we have a lot of people that keep coming into it.
But it costs a lot of money to do this.
And, you know, I'm retired now.
I made a fair living in my life.
But, you know, we're doing a little thing on calling cards.
You know, like if you put a calling card in there, you know, we charge $50 for that calling card, but it will go into space and we'll sign it and authenticate it.
And eventually down the road, that's a piece of history.
And that calling card would be worth a lot of money.
The headline is, anti-gravity propulsion comes out of the closet.
Boeing, the world's largest aircraft manufacturer, has admitted it is now working on experimental anti-gravity projects that could overturn a century of conventional aerospace propulsion technology if the science underpinning them can be engineered into hardware.
Well, at the very least, it has implications for energy needs for this country because that kind of propulsion system, of course, would create energy in a way that we really, really, really, really need right now.
I've seen another real interesting propulsion system, and that's using a laser.
And I was at a seminar where they actually had like a small flying saucer that was made out of titanium, and they hit it up on the rod, and they spun it with air, and then they fired the laser.
And this thing was actually flying.
The problem is the heat was so high that it was way up in the air when it disintegrated.
It just turned the spark, boom, and disappeared.
And titanium can withstand a tremendous amount of heat.
So then that last thing I heard that they were going to be making a ceramic one and then going over to Russia because they're supposed to have the most powerful lasers in the world.
Because from what I understand is that this country wanted to agreement with other countries that they would be responsible for anything that's launched from this country.
You know, I'm actually old enough to remember listening to the terrifying beeps that they were playing on the radio saying this was from an orbiting Russian space satellite.
And, you know, if I don't do it, then another country, somebody from another country, and there's going to be one more thing that wasn't done in this country just because we are suppressed by the government.
You know, the way I look at it, I mean, you know, they developed a tremendous amount of technology and all.
There's no doubt about it.
But I look at it as this.
There's a bunch of guys in NASA that they will not let us play with their toys.
They got the toys.
They won't let us play with the toys.
You know, we pay for the toys, but...
you know to them it's not our toys you know that's the way that I look at it and if I you know if a bunch of amateurs can build a rocket put it into space recover it for under under $200,000 Maybe they don't want to be shown up.
The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
More Somewhere in Time coming up.
Time, time, time.
He must become of me.
While I look around.
All my possibilities.
I was the heart.
All our times have come.
We'll be right back.
Don't feel the reaper Nor do the wind or the sun or the rain You can see like day on Come on baby Don't feel the reaper Let it take my hand Don't feel the reaper Will be able to fly Don't feel the reaper Baby, I'm your man.
Baby, I'm your man.
Oh, my God.
Premier Network presents Art Bell somewhere in time.
Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 1st, 2002.
Music Now, I have no idea whether it was Kay Michaelson's company or some other company, but I was contacted some time ago.
Kayat has not come to fruition yet, but a company was going to launch some stuff into space, and they contacted me, and they wanted me to be the spokesperson for their commercials, and they said we would be willing to launch something for you into space, you know, for doing this.
And my wife and I talked about it.
We're going to have the first gold wedding bands, simple gold wedding bands that we got when we got married.
We're going to have those put together one inside the other into the eternity symbol and launch those.
In fact, we've done that.
They're ready.
And I was just wondering if you know, are there others working on?
Back then, there was a lot of things I really should have patented, and we didn't do that.
And like our Defender that other people have used, I've actually, you know, we developed it, but there was an Academy Award won with that piece of equipment, and we got no credit at all for it.
So those are the things, you know, when you're younger and you just don't think about them.
No, he was killed in an accident right after doing a stunt in the movie.
It was just a weird deal.
He was working on the Million Dollar Mystery, and after he'd done some major stunts, they were taking a break and get ready to go home.
And the director came over to him and said, you know, I assume you're done.
We need three motorcycles to drive by a fixed camera and then take a left.
And when he did it, there was three bikes, and he got squeezed off, and he went off the side of a cliff.
And he just broke his leg and some internal injuries that he had.
But the ambulance had just left, and the chopper had just left.
And as it turned out, the ambulance thought they were going to come back and the chopper thought they were going to come back.
Neither one came back, and he bled to death in an hour and 45 minutes.
It was horrible.
He was my best, best beloved, dear friend.
And it just tore my heart out for years.
That's why I'm so, my wife, my wife's my best friend now, but back then, it just killed me.
Dar faced, you know, life, I mean death, so many times, and I was right there with him, you know, and his life was in my hands on a number of occasions.
And you become very close to a person when you get like that.
I mean, he thoroughly trusted me, and I trusted him.
You know, all right, well, here we are back to this for a second.
And this is, I'll draw you over the edge here a little bit.
But, you know, with Boeing working on anti-gravity propulsion and with all of the UFO sightings that we have, I just wonder what your view is, whether you think there are things in our skies.
Now, I live out here in Brump, Nevada, near, not far from Area 51.
We see things in the sky here all the time that are totally, completely inexplicable.
And if we've got Jane's headlines that Boeing is working on anti-gravity, then what's the government been doing out there, you know, in the desert here?
Because they go to, you know, if you examine your everyday life, number one, you're inside most of the time.
Number two, when you are outside, you're paying attention to the road in front of you, or the car in front of you, or whatever else is in front of you, and you're not looking at the sky.
So we miss most of these things simply because we're not looking.
In the next five years, I believe they'll be on the moon.
And I'm just going to tell you, the balance of power, you know, I tell you what, we're going to have a problem if we don't do something real spectacular out there ourselves.
And we should continue with that.
I mean, you know, the shuttle, you know, this is interesting.
It may not be right on the numbers, but it takes something like 30,000 people to maintain the shuttle.
Can you imagine having 30,000 people maintaining every 747 around?
I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous.
You know, the private sector can do it so much cheaper than the government can do it.
You know that, with everything.
And they should let the private sector get involved in that process.
Well, I mean, we have right now on the drawing board to do that.
But whether the federal government, what we're going to have to go through to do that, you know, that's something that's an issue that you're going to have to face.
I mean, obviously, they would be concerned that you would collide with some communications satellite or some very expensive something orbiting up there, right?
Again, you still have to go through the Space Transportation Department, and they can say yay or nay.
And, you know, you can even go on to, I mean, you could go out to Vandenberg or White Sands or one of those, but I'll tell you what, you better have a lot of money to do it.
And because it doesn't come cheap to use those facilities.
I mean, they may be just sitting there dormant, not even being used, but if you want to go use that facilities, you know.
Well, the thing is, they have never licensed an amateur to do that.
I mean, they just haven't been licensed.
I mean, there was a project years ago where they used government propulsion system and stuff, a group of people down in Texas that launched the rocket.
But that's back before the laws came in.
In 1984, the Space Transportation Department, as I mentioned, was put into place.
And that's when the laws came in.
Before it was pretty free, you go do what you want to do.
It's just like when cars first came out, you didn't need a driver's license.
And now they've got it so restricted that it restricts everybody.
I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous.
You think that the government would want the private sector to get involved and to do it cheaply?
If you've got any questions about rocketry, putting things into space, stunts, what he's done his life, his entire life, now we're about to open phone lines.
You can ask questions.
So you've got the numbers.
You know what they are?
Let's rock.
unidentified
Let's rock.
Coast to Coast AM sure sounds great in the middle of the night.
But you know, you don't have to be nocturnal to enjoy this amazing show.
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Listen on your way to work and again on the way home.
Or listen to one of over a thousand archived shows from the past three years.
As a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Nouri and special guests.
The Coast Insiders Club is a must-have feature for all Coast to Coast AM listeners.
Visit CoastTocoastAM.com to sign up today.
You'll sleep like a baby, knowing you'll never miss your favorite guests and topics ever again.
Remember, a one-year subscription comes out to only 15 cents a day.
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At this point, I'm not happy with the direction that government is taking.
I'm happy with the fact that Americans are beginning to wake up and stand up and do what they have to do and shout and scream and blog.
And I think that's critical.
And I think that's what's going to save the Republic.
I think in the long run, as we go through all this stuff, it's the people who will save us and our country will remain strong.
Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues, courtesy of Premier Networks.
Well, to cut it short here, there is this chemtrail controversy and a lot of people feel that there's an attempt at weather modification underway and that they're using commercial jets and other jets to lay things in the atmosphere for some reason, either weather control or perhaps as part of a weapon system or we have no idea, but there's this big chemtrail controversy.
Well, as a matter of fact, there's a couple of groups of people that are doing that, but there's a lot of problems from there.
I mean, we have a launch pad that's in one spot, and to keep that launch pad, you're bringing it up, you go and you get into the air currents, and boom, all seeing you in the area you can't launch.
But I mean, there's some guys who are working on projects just like we're talking about.
I mean, things have to be absolutely perfect to do that.
I mean, I've been out to a launch where some guys of JP were out to the Black Rock where they had a small rocket and they had to end the flight because it all of a sudden it was out of the perimeter.
And that's one of the problems that you'll run into all the time.
I have a theory, a question about a theory that I have about his red tape situation.
Then I have a suggestion for payload.
My first question is, do you think that with all the red tape and nonsense you've had to go through to try to launch this personal rocket into space, do you think that maybe the government is afraid that if you're successful in doing this, that you may be approached or maybe even yourself or your crews kidnapped by foreign entities who forced you to hand over the technology?
I'm not ready for that one, but I'm here to protect our hobby and our sport.
And if somebody from another country was to say something to me, I definitely would turn that over to the proper authorities because we want to protect what we've done.
But who knows what's out there?
I mean, this day and age, anything is possible.
unidentified
Now, about the payload.
When you plan on launching something into orbit, I guess, in a future mission.
When I was about 20 Years old, Denny, a friend of mine who I grew up, his wife told us exactly the same thing up in Minneapolis that a car actually went dead.
So I just heard it twice now.
So he said that I go, wow, this guy's not too far out there, I'll tell you that.
You know, other than the man in Oregon, what about the prospect of launching a person, a person, to some great altitude or even to low Earth orbit or something of that magnitude?
I mean, how far away we're talking about payloads here, I suppose, but how far away, once you launch something into low Earth orbit, would you be from launching a person?
And when you get in there, of course, everything has to get bigger.
I mean, you've got more fuel, and you got more weight, so you've got to have more fuel.
It goes on and on and on.
But it's a doable thing, and guess what?
Some people will be doing that in the near future.
And, you know, it won't be long before we tap the, I mean, actually, where you can actually take a ride in the space.
I mean, the kids out there that are five, six years old, it's going to be a common occurrence by the time that they're adults to be able to go into space, take rides in the space.
It's going to happen.
And believe me, the civilians are going to be the ones that are going to do it.
But, you know, from another, I mean, you look at, I've gone to, you know, the space seminars and stuff like this.
One of the interesting things is, you know, I've seen people that are actually selling tickets for $5,000 to go in space in one year.
And I've seen people that are gullible enough to hand that kind of money up.
And I'm just going, what are they doing?
And, you know, I've seen women that weigh 250 pounds.
I want to leave this place.
But you stop and think about it before anybody should ever do it.
Sure, going to the space and coming back would be just great.
You had just a heck of a good time.
But to live in the space and be in outer space, I think you should go to jail for one year and sit in a cell and say, is this what I want to do for the rest of my life?
Because that's basically what it is.
I mean, you're not going to be playing no tennis up out there.
I mean, who knows, maybe in a thousand years from now, when we're someplace else.
But you have to look at that.
But from a tourist aspect, I mean, it's a very doable thing.
And a lot of people who are listening to the show are going to be able to do that in the near future.
So you're sending up a transmitter that's going to go beep, beep, beep.
Could I suggest that if you're going to be sending a transmitter up there, that maybe you send more of a substantial message that maybe people could tune into on short wave or something like that?
Well, that's probably lower hours of a double mic show, maybe.
We have, I mean, we've talked about that, and that's probably what we will do is get the ham radio operators involved in this in schools and the colleges.
I go to school and teach rocket classes all the time.
The University of Minnesota, the STEPS program, to encourage women to get into engineering and stuff.
I do five classes there a year with 30 girls in the class.
All I'm going to say is they better spend that Star Wars program or whatever, they better spend a lot of money on it and get really serious about it because we need to protect this nation and the hardworking people of this nation.
And I mean, look at that.
I mean, the government got caught with their fans down on the 9-11 thing, that's for darn sure.
And it just goes to show you that we're not as safe as we may think we are.
I don't want to be paranoid or anything like that, but that's the realistic part of it.
And I'll tell you what, if some of these other nations, they get these nuclear warheads, I mean, they've got, you know, Hey, they've got missiles, I'll tell you what.
I mean, I don't really like to talk too much about that, but I don't want them.
But anyways, I just think that we should be doing as much as we possibly can to protect this great nation.
Well, my question was, do you think that we can stop a ballistic missile in mid- Again, like you mentioned, we've done it on a couple occasions, but we need to do it every single one that comes over here.
So I think we need some more technology to do that.
But, you know, there's these stories about contrails that are nothing but donuts.
And there's these stories about this thing called the Aurora that comes in from the Pacific, and they've actually shown the sonic waves to show where this thing has come from.
And they claim that part of its propulsion system involves virtual detonations, little bombs going off, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, driving it faster and faster.
Do you know anything about that kind of propulsion system?
Yeah, well, that's what the X class of aircraft, some of the early test aircraft were shown dropped out of the belly of a B-52, and then they'd travel, and then all of a sudden they'd ignite the rockets and away they go.
Yeah, me and my fiancé would just like to say if there is any Indian land that he would like to use, then we have about six acres of land out here in Oklahoma that he could use, and it's Indian land.
So that means probably you end up talking to the Bureau of Land Management, because they're the kind of people out here and about who's got that kind of land.