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July 8, 2002 - Art Bell

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Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - John Cogan - The New Order of Man's History

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Arch Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 8th, 2002.
unidentified		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening, good afternoon, good morning, whatever time of day it may be, wherever you are in this globe, and we cover the entire globe one way or the other.
		With this program, which is called Coast to Coast AM, it's great to be here.
		I'm Mark Bell, and yet another affiliate joins the fold of the weird.
		WKVT, Brattleboro, Vermont.
		WKBT in Brattleboro, Vermont, 1490 on the dial.
		1,000 watts blazing over Bruffleboro.
		And I don't know why, but the name Brattleboro is very, very familiar to me.
		Somehow, some way.
		Brattleboro.
		I like the name anyway, Brattleboro.
		Rules off the top.
		Bruffleboro.
		Glenn Cardinal is the GM there, and the PD is Bill Howard.
		Thank you both.
		Usual standard warning to new affiliates.
		Take a deep breath, close your eyes, and don't worry.
		Everything will be all right.
		Well, let's look around the world tonight, shall we?
		It all happened before a House panel today.
		WorldCom execs clashed with former auditors, and I'm sure it was sort of like, he did it.
		Oh, he did it.
		He did it.
		You know, that sort of thing, right?
		Actually, WorldCom chairman Bert Roberts called auditor Arthur Anderson's failure to uncover the irregularities inconceivable.
		However, most of those who could stand today took fit against self-incrimination.
		So we don't know a whole lot.
		You've got to get through these guys who say, you know, it's, well, we do have that constitution, right?
		The West is on fire.
		And it's just, it's the change in our weather, and we're getting a pretty big change here, too.
		Now, I know it is July, at least for early part of it, but here it was 113 today out at Lake Mead, about 120.
		Yeah, that's pretty warm.
		113 here, 120 there, probably about 127 in Death Valley, I would bet, if not closer to 130.
		Pretty warm out here.
		In Santa Clarita, California, embers from 150-acre wildfire torched a home two blocks from the firefront, damaged two others before firefighters could actually do anything about it.
		The fires, you know, they're all across the western U.S. We're on fire.
		And the reason we're on fire is because we're hot and we're dry and we haven't had the kind of rains, the kind of monsoon season yet that we should be having here.
		Am I surprised?
		No.
		Am I surprised by the ridiculously high temperatures?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With flood warnings out and more rain looming, Governor Rick Perry said today in Texas he expects losses from the deadly flooding to be near a billion dollars.
		A billion dollars.
		Once all these floodwaters recede, we'll see what the impact is, he said.
		But it's going to be substantial.
		More than 30 inches of rain have fallen in the past week, sending streams and rivers pouring right out over their banks.
		So you see, rain is generally where it ought not be and not where it ought be.
		High temperatures are prevailing, on average higher, and of course here in the desert where we always experience the upper limit anyway, it's going to be perhaps all the more dangerous.
		And if it gets too hot, it will become not livable.
		And in some areas, if they get too wet, it becomes not livable.
		In fact, that can happen to our planet.
unidentified		In fact, I have a story about that coming up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, let's talk about it a little bit, shall we?
		It's a big story that's going to be released.
		You're going to be hearing a lot about it today on the news in the Eastern time zones.
		In other words, tomorrow.
		This is a story that's going to be released tomorrow.
		We get it from the observer, the London Observer, of course.
		Earth's population will be forced to colonize two planets within 50 years if natural resources continue to be exploited at the current rate.
		According to a report out this week, a study by the World Wildlife Fund to be released Tuesday warns the human race is plundering the planet at a pace that outstrips its capacity to support life.
		Now, these are very, very serious words.
		Very serious words.
		The human race is plundering the planet at a pace that outstrips its capacity to support life.
		And if we don't do anything and continue to consume at present levels, in 50 years, the human race will either have to colonize two additional planets or else.
		In a damning condemnation of Western society's high consumption levels, it adds the extra planets, the equivalent size of Earth, will be required by the year 2050 as existing resources are exhausted.
		The report based on scientific data from across the world reveals that more than a third of the natural world has now been destroyed by humans over the past three decades.
		Now, those words too need to sink in a little bit.
		All right, think about it really hard.
		More than a third of the natural world has been destroyed by humans over the past three decades.
		Using the image of the need for mankind to colonize space as a stark illustration of the problems facing Earth, the report warns that even consumption rates are dramatically and rapidly lower, the planet will no longer be able to sustain its growing population.
		Experts say the seas, our oceans, will become emptied of fish, while forests, which absorb carbon dioxide emissions, are completely destroyed and freshwater supplies become scarce and what little there is will be polluted.
		The report offers a vivid warning that either people curb their extravagant lifestyles or risk leaving the onus on scientists to locate another planet that can sustain human life.
		Now, since this is very unlikely to happen, the only option is to cut consumption now.
		Systematic over-exploitation of the planet's oceans has meant the The North American cod stocks have collapsed from an estimated spawning stock of 264,000 in 1970 to under 60,000 in 1995.
		Yikes.
		The study will also reveal a sharp fall in the planet's ecosystems between 1970 and 2002, with the Earth's forest cover shrinking by 12%, the ocean's biodiversity by a third, and freshwater ecosystems in the region by 55%.
		The Living Planet report uses an index to illustrate the shocking level of deterioration in the world's forests as well as marine and freshwater ecosystems.
		Using 1970 as a baseline year and giving that a value of 100, the index has dropped to a new low of around 65 in the space of a single generation.
		It is not just humans who are at risk, say the scientists, who examined this data.
		They were looking for 350 kinds of mammals, birds, reptiles, fish, and also found the numbers of many species have more than halved.
		Martin Jenkins, senior advisor for the World Conservation Monitoring Center in Cambridge, which helped compile this report to be released today, it seems things are getting worse faster than possibly ever before.
unidentified		Hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now that too, that remark too, I think, deserves some consideration.
		It would seem that the damage, the hello, deterioration of the earth is quickening.
		It's just a way of saying it, right?
		What does he say?
		It seems things are getting worse faster than possibly ever before.
		Never has one single species had such an overwhelming influence.
		We are entering uncharted territory.
		Figures from the center reveal that black rhino numbers have fallen from 65,000 in 1970 to about 3,100 now.
		65,000 in 1970 to 3,100 now.
		Numbers of African elephants have fallen from around 1.2 million in 1980 to just over half a million.
		So that's more than half, right?
		While the population of tigers has fallen 95% during the past century.
		The population of tigers has fallen by 95% during the past century.
		The UK birdsong population has also seen a drastic fall with the horn-bunting population declining by 92% between 1970 and 2000, the tree sparrow by 90%, and the spotted flycatcher 70%.
		Experts, however, say it is very difficult to ascertain how many species have vanished forever because the rules are that a species has got to disappear for 50 years before anyone will officially declare it to be extinct.
		Did you know that?
		Anything they declare extinct has not been seen for 50 years.
unidentified		that's what it takes to get on the list ScreenLink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider.
		You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price, just 15 cents a day when you sign up for one year.
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		Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to collect, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure.
		Plus, you'll get streamed and on-demand broadcasts of Art Bell, Somewhere Inside Shows, and two weekly classics.
		And as a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Norrie and special guests.
		If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
		Visit Coast2CoastAM.com to sign up today.
		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
		I think now, as we look back, we can probably say with pretty good certainty that some people in government might have been aware of what was going on and they turned their cheek the other way just to let it happen.
		I also believe that some bigger groups got involved with al-Qaeda to do what they did on that horrible day.
		This wasn't just a small group of people who came in and did their thing.
		There was a much bigger picture there.
		And if you see the events that have unfolded since this tragedy occurred, how we've lost rights, how we used it to go in Afghanistan and Iraq, and how it has really not stopped.
		Because it's going to continue.
		We're going to have More and more episodes and more and more involvement in other countries.
		And just mark my word, this planet is going through an incredible change.
		And thank God we've got you here to talk with us about it.
		Now we take you back to the night of July 8, 2002 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that's a pretty serious report.
		The report due out today, which no doubt you'll hear talked about quite a bit, is that either we change the way we're doing things here on Earth, or within 50 years, we had better have two colonizable, if that's a word, planets available for our immediate occupancy, or we get a sort of an eviction notice.
		Now, usually before you're going to get evicted or move, you want to make sure you have another place to move to, another house, right?
		If you don't, then you are a street person.
		You are known as a street person or a car person living in your car.
		Well, that's essentially what this report is saying about the earth.
		And what we've done in the last 30 years is astounding, and it's true.
		Now, it may be that politically, politically I say, the wise thing is to do essentially what we're doing, which is nothing.
		We look at the various protocols, the ones in Japan, there's going to be lots more, lots of other international conferences coming up very shortly that are going to try and figure out what to do about all this, but the United States has taken the position that basically isn't going to do a thing.
		And I'm not saying that that is untenable, but politically, it's probably the only tenable thing we can do.
		Look at our politicians.
		Think about the position our politicians are in, our president, for example.
		It's just the thing.
		You need to always show forward movement, growth, improved lifestyles, right?
		You need to show that or the voters will kick you out of office.
		That's the way it is.
		If you show a regression and things getting worse, then your political head comes off like that.
		So there really is no choice.
		The alternative is political suicide.
		But you've got to at least consider when you get these kinds of reports that that is what's going on and you've got to consider the implications of it, particularly if we do nothing, which in all probability we will continue to do.
unidentified		We do it very well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We will continue the lifestyle we have.
		We will continue to improve it and attempt to improve the economy, based as it is, on something that will ultimately destroy the world.
		Now, maybe science will come along and save our butts.
		But I wouldn't put a lot of money on that one if I were you.
		Right now, preparations are underway, according to the USA today, for a radiation attack.
		Government and markets fear wide panic.
		The New York Stock Exchange, which, oh boy, they had trouble on the market again today, down 100-something points.
		The New York Stock Exchange plans to open secret communication centers around the country.
		Secret!
		Public health officials are adding hundreds of doctors to emergency response teams.
		Nuclear safety officials plan to buy more radiation detection devices.
		Faced with the prospect of new terrorist attacks, virtually every segment of American society from Washington to Wall Street.
		Now taking steps to keep government functioning, money flowing, and people calm.
		Now, you see, those are the priorities, right?
		Taking steps to keep government functioning, one, right?
		Money flowing, two, and people calm, all of you, three.
		The need for such preparations was highlighted last month by the detention of a U.S. citizen who already said was planning to detonate a radioactive dirty bomb somewhere in the USA.
		I think it was Chicago.
		At the federal level, it's the one we're most prepared for because we have five decades of experience preparing for it.
		Randy Larson, director of the ANSER, that's ANSER Institute for Homeland Security.
		He and other experts say the detonation of a radiological device would not cause mass casualties, even if it did cause widespread panic.
		Nevertheless, federal officials do worry that an attack with radioactive material could cripple the economy and cause enough panic to overwhelm local hospitals with people seeking treatment.
		Larson says that a radiological strike would have an enormous psychological effect, even though it shouldn't.
unidentified		So they're getting ready.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, this story, like another, with regard to smallpox, you know, they're beginning to disseminate a smallpox vaccine now to government workers first, of course, and even beginning to plan for the mass vaccination of the American people.
		Now, when I look at these kinds of stories about the radiological story here, and then the smallpox story, I ask myself right away, hey, what do they know that we don't?
		They don't usually begin doing this sort of thing unless they have some pretty good information that something like this is about to happen, right?
		Either an atomic bomb, a radiological dirty bomb, a smallpox release someplace or another.
		In other words, we are on the verge of something happening, and They know that it's coming.
		They know it's coming.
		Or they wouldn't begin acting in this way, understanding even how beginning to vaccinate government workers against smallpox.
		I mean, that's a big message, right?
		Big message.
		Beginning to think about impact vaccinating the entire U.S. population against smallpox.
		Sure, I think they're doing the right thing.
		You're darn right.
		They've got to get ready.
		If they really think it's coming.
		And if they don't really think it's coming, then what are they doing?
		Right?
		Is that logical?
		Same thing with the radiological preparations.
		Yes, get ready, but only if you have fairly substantial information indicating there is a need for such preparations.
		So I think one translates directly to the other.
		Yes, they've got that need.
		Yes, they have that information.
		And that means we all better get ready.
		Because it's probably coming.
		It's not a matter of if, but a matter of when.
		Anyway, one thing we're not going to do, pleasant as it might be to think about, is go back to the way it was.
		You know, back to the beginning, the place where it all began.
unidentified		You're listening to Arc Bell Summer in Time on Premiere Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 8, 2002.
		We've got to get right back where we started going.
		Do you remember that day?
		That's all you think.
		And you can take my place.
		no one can take your face I can make my money on your baby.
		When it's alright and it's coming on, we gotta get right back to where we're from.
		Oh, no.
		We gotta get right back to where we're from.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 8th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Morning, everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Getting a lot of people saying, how can you read that trash from the World Wildlife Federation that communists are?
unidentified		Well, I don't know about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I do know that what they're saying seems like communism to some people out there.
		Why, to ruin this economy and take everything down back to the cave days or anything like it, it's just communistic.
		And you're right.
		It is.
		And so, actually, I'm on your side, in a way.
		There's hardly any point, is there, in reporting on this when our politicians, our policymakers, can't do a damn thing about it anyway without committing political suicide, something we all know they will not do.
		They will not commit suicide politically.
		So they will continue present policies.
		And actually, in a way, I agree with them.
		That, in a perverse kind of way, means that I agree with those of you who think it's all a bunch of communist nonsense.
		Might as well be, because we're not going to do anything about it.
		So, in a way, if I were a politician, I might do the same thing.
		Practically.
		I mean, of course, morally, there's a different thing to do, but from a practical standpoint, politicians have to be practical.
		Or else they're not politicians anymore.
		From that point of view, they will do nothing.
		It's the only thing they can do.
		And so, in a way, I agree with you.
		What's the point of understanding it's true if you can't or won't do anything about it?
		No point at all.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm Chris, and I'm from Minnesota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And I don't know if I go quite so far as to say it's communism, but I'm very disappointed that the World Wildlife Fund would come out with such a report that's so clearly, to me, biased towards their own agenda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Instead of going at it that way, they named a whole lot of facts in here.
		They rattled off a bunch of facts about species and about the use of current deterioration in our ecology and all the rest of it.
		They've a lot of facts in here, so you might want to take those on and tell me where they're wrong here.
unidentified		Well, I think that the facts that they're citing are so they're saying that they're facts and they're such that Larry, let's try it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That the North Atlantic's cod stocks have collapsed from an estimated spawning stock of 264,000 tons, that's tons, sir, in 1970 to 60,000 in 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You say that's wrong?
unidentified		I'm saying how can you measure that unless you're using whatever kind of computer models that they're using.
		And of course when you have a computer model, they're setting it up.
		They're putting the data in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, how about this?
		1970 to 2002, 12% of the Earth's forest cover is gone.
		No, no, no.
		This time, no, no, no.
		Oh, no.
		This time you have satellites, sir.
		Satellites look down, and they can precisely tell you how much forest is there.
unidentified		Well, I know that in terms of who to blame...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's the point of blame?
unidentified		Well, but the point of blame is to further whatever agendas that they're looking to further.
unidentified		it seems to me like there are always inevitably these reports point the blame to Western culture, which reads, of course, the United States.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I think that we've done...
		We are consumers.
		I mean, let's face it.
unidentified		Well, but we're not consuming gigantic trees from the Amazon rainforest, which is where much of the deforestation has come from no they're down there burning it up and using it as one-time farmland then moving on I mean it's insanity but it's going on I mean it's going on I'm all in favor of good conservation but I think that in this case they've they've just gone way too far and to me they've they've uh looked at conservation well actually though that's
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's not really true, because we have hardly done anything.
		Really, we've shunned the world in Japan, right?
		And we're not doing it.
		So we haven't gone overboard on conservation.
unidentified		No, I'm not saying that we have gone overboard in conservation.
		I'm in favor of being a good steward to the world and being a good conservationist.
		I'm saying that the report has gone too far, in my opinion, has jumped to conclusions which just cannot be supported by evidence.
		And it has lowered the prestige of the organization, that of the Earth Liberation Front.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But what you're doing here is you're not arguing the facts.
		You're giving me a political diatribe, and I appreciate that.
		And actually, I appreciate it because it underlines what I just said.
		You know, if you want to dispute the facts as presented here, well then fine.
		Come dispute the facts with science.
		They're basing their conclusions on hard science.
		Now, for example, the forests, as I mentioned to him, the forests are very easy to observe by satellite.
		They claim, let's see, that the oceans will be devoid of life, and they give statistics here that prove that.
		Now, that's fine.
		It's fine that you think it's political, you know, dog poop, or scientific dog poop, but it's not.
		It's real dog poop, and it's the place where we live.
		Now, again, in a way I agree with you.
		I mean, you can call it that, and you might as well dismiss it from your mind.
		Because either you can figure it's not true, if that makes you comfortable, or you can figure that even if it is true, who cares?
		Because we're not going to do anything about it.
		Sort of a flippant, but I think actually practical stance to take on this.
		I mean, what's the point?
		We're going to go on living the way we're living.
		If that means the end of us, then that's going to mean the end of us, right?
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Oh, good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		I have a comment about all of the dying birds in the West.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Yes, this is Mark calling from Indianapolis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Mark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I get a lot of emails about not dying birds.
unidentified		Well, I was thinking, isn't that what you would expect when there are escaping gases prior to a volcanic and earthquake activity?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess that could be one answer.
		Yeah.
		I mean, birds, canaries, they used in the mine, right?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because they always keeled over first.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, if birds are beginning to keel over for some reason, we probably should pay attention to that because it probably means something.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		That's kind of what, I can't shake the feeling that that's what it means.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's like Harry and Frank going down in the mine, right?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With the canary in their hand.
		The canary drops dead and goes up on all fours in the air.
		And Harry says, what do you think, should we turn back?
		And his partner says, hell no.
		Hell with that canary.
		Come on, let's go.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Well, speaking of, yeah, speaking of strange things from the earth, I think if you were to put out the question, has anybody seen recently the sudden appearance of very strange, unidentifiable insects?
		I think you'll get a lot of responses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's see if we do.
		All right.
		Thank you.
		Yeah.
		Things are a-changing.
		Dear Mr. Bell, this is an example.
		From Neil in Escondido.
		I was listening to your Sunday show.
		And near the end, the caller asked about dead birds in Southern California.
		That's right.
		I think that was actually Saturday.
		I live in Escondido.
		I think you know the San Diego area.
		Indeed, I do.
		My neighbors and I have found several dead birds around our homes.
		The birds have been of different types and sizes.
		All were found with strange eyes.
		How's that?
		The area around the eyes was blue.
		Here in San Diego, we have had radio and TV stations carry community service messages warning of the West Nile virus.
		In these messages, they warn about dead birds.
		They also ask, if you find one, you should call the county health department and save the bird for testing, which I have done.
		I've called them but have not yet received a response.
		The reports were on NBC San Diego and Kogo, KOGO, our affiliate there.
		So, you see, dead birds.
		Well, if dead birds are falling from the sky, that probably has meaning.
unidentified		Doesn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, I'm going to say, as we go along, and more and more signs of the reality of what this federation has said are true, we can choose to close our eyes.
		And if we do, I don't blame us.
		I really don't.
		Because we're just, we're not going to change.
		We are going to continue to want to live the lifestyle we are.
		We're not going back to live in caves.
		This is a stark reality discussion we're having here.
		We're killing the planet.
		I think that's probably true, and we're not going to do anything about it.
		And I actually may support that position, because you can't go back.
		You just absolutely can't go back.
		That's all there is to it.
		We're not going to.
		It's obvious.
		I was to the Rockies.
		You're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Going once.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you are there.
unidentified		Yes, I'm there.
		Good.
		you sure you're all there yes i am there what you said earlier about everything you read um is frightening it is frightening and i want to tell you um i don't want to offend a whole nation when i've traveled between san diego california right and London,
		England, between the past two years, often, I notice that when I'm in San Diego, you are the only one that carries this news about the planet.
		And then when I'm in London, they don't have anything about it.
		It's like you have...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's very interesting, because most of the news that I'm getting, I'm getting from British publications.
unidentified		I know, and there's something going on where they're not publicizing it in London.
		They're like doing something where they're saying, they're talking about transport and nonsense.
		Well, that's...
		Are they doing something where America is broadcasting things toward them about these things?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In order to come back, you mean?
unidentified		And Britain is broadcasting something toward us about that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		The title, if you want to look it up, is Earth Will Expire by 2050.
		Pretty wild stuff.
		Earth Will Expire by 2050.
		And it comes from The Observer.
		And I suppose we ought to get a copy of it up on the website for you.
		It'll be released today, and so probably later today, there'll be a whole lot of talk about it.
		You're going to hear a lot of talk about it, I would imagine.
		I'll bet it'll be on CNN.
		A lot of the facts they have here and so forth will be on CNN.
		Interesting stuff anyway.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
unidentified		This is Jacob from Indianapolis, and I'm going to switch gears a bit.
unidentified		I've got a prison, and I'm calling as a representative of all your large bands in prison.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they sent you out to send some word, huh?
unidentified		Well, they didn't send me out to send some word, but I thought I'd do it.
		And I have some thoughts about what you were just talking about.
		You said that it might be some communistic that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, I didn't say that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I said that somebody blasted me on the computer that this WWF report is nothing but communism, yeah?
unidentified		Well, my thing is this, is what's capitalism done for us lately?
unidentified		I mean, if you really think about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's done a lot.
		No, no, no, it has.
		It really has.
		I think most of us live in fairly comfortable circumstances.
		Now, that's not all, but that's most in this country.
		We're pretty comfortable.
		And we're comfortable because we've got damn good living conditions.
unidentified		Right.
		But you see, I'm bringing a specific point of view about this is I came from a private prison that was ran by capitalistic intentions tolly.
		And the problem is that in a mainstream prison, there is more opportunities for, say, rehabilitation.
		I mean, the point of prison is that we come out and we don't do it again.
		That's a good prison, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Might I ask why you went?
unidentified		Well, I don't want to really go into that because I have victims and I don't want to sort of air their pain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For what crime, might I ask?
unidentified		Well, again, I don't want to get into that because, again, I have victims and six years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were in prison six years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was bounced around, so.
unidentified		At one point in time, I was a bad guy.
unidentified		I sort of got religion and cleaned up my act.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you obviously were able to hear the program in prison?
unidentified		Yeah, you were allowed to buy radios, but it was a completely capitalistic setup.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you had to buy the radios.
		They weren't going to be able to do that.
		Oh, yeah, we had to buy the radios.
unidentified		But I mean, in a normal state-run facility, there's a lot of opportunities for education.
unidentified		There's opportunities for just rehabilitation, counseling, things like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what did they have you doing?
unidentified		Oh, well, in the institution I was at, you basically either swept up a little bit, set on your duff, or went to school.
unidentified		And oh, by the way, they took the taxpayers' money so that we could go to school.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you do well?
unidentified		Yes, I did.
		I graduated top of my class.
		I graduated with a college degree.
		Oh, thank you.
		I guess here's my thing.
		I think there has to be some modification to our lifestyles and to this sort of idea that this sort of laissez-faire capitalism with this idea we have because suicide is stupid, you know.
		And I can't agree.
		If we don't change, we're going to die.
		And, you know, I don't think that's good for anybody.
		Dying's bad.
		I want my great-great-grandkids to live at least a good of a life as I'm living.
		And that means that maybe I'm going to have to give some things up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you read the facts, it doesn't look like that's going to happen, where we're headed presently.
		I mean, clearly it's not going to happen.
		It's going to be a very different world.
		It always is.
		But, I mean, when you look at what's happened in the three decades, last three, if you believe this report, well, you know, the rest is obvious.
		But I don't think we're going to change.
		Do I have a lot of listeners in jail?
		You have quite a few.
unidentified		You would be surprised, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I wouldn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back in the days when we took mail here, oh, my God, I get lots and lots of mail from prisoners.
unidentified		You're about the only news we trust, actually, a lot of us.
		Because, I mean, put you this way, right?
		We know how government really is in some ways.
		You know what I mean?
		We know some of the sort of, I don't want to say Gestapo tactics, but that's the only way I can really think of it.
		I mean, corrections, what goes on in corrections, sometimes the outside world really doesn't understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, sir, I've got a scooter.
		I really, really appreciate the call.
		Thank you very much.
		I've got a break to do or else.
		One of those do it or else things.
unidentified		One of those do it or else.
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		Now we take you back to the night of July 8, 2002 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Art Bell Barely got that one in, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wild Heartline, you're on the air.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		Yeah, hi, about your 2050 report.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not mine.
unidentified		Well, the one you've mentioned.
		You know, it's kind of interesting, the timing of it.
		And, you know, far be it for me to be on the dark side of a conspiracy theory, but it's getting a lot of play.
		And it comes at a strange time, too, because if certain people really believe in this, people on what I would call the dark side, really believe that there may be a need for population reduction and all the coded words that they use.
		This is coming at a time where we're involved in an endless war on terrorism that even Cheney and Bush say, you know, this may last far beyond our lifetimes.
		We've got trouble in the Middle East.
		You've had the chief of Mossad three days ago, or four days ago, excuse me, telling the international press that 9-11-01 was the start of World War III.
		And then we have, like I say, the New York Times coming out with how we're going to have this three-pronged attack on Iraq.
		You have all these things going.
		And once again, I find it interesting that this comes out at this time because if some people do believe that there is a need to basically call the population, are they possibly setting this up?
		Why would the chief of the Mossads come to the city?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what's a real good way to call the population?
		It's war.
		And that's how it's done.
		You have war, people die.
		A lot of people die.
unidentified		How do you feel about it?
unidentified		Do you think there's any connection?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, I do.
		You bet I do.
		Sure, I do.
		War will definitely do some calling.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I'm just wondering why all these stories are finding a dovetail here lately.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Birds are falling out of the sky.
unidentified		Yeah, things like that.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Appreciate your call, sir.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Tafer Core doesn't want to.
		Oh, okay.
		I think I figured out what the cattle mutilation messages are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that would be brilliant.
		So it's a message we should be getting from all these cattle being mutilated.
		What would the message be?
unidentified		Well, I think it's terrorism to make the liberals obey orders.
		There are four messages I can see.
		The first message is where the lips, tongue, and vocal...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why not send it directly?
unidentified		Well, the police would get on their case and the whole movement would be exposed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The real message would be delivered.
		You mutilate liberals, not cows.
		If you want to talk to liberals, if you want to talk to conservatives, you mutilate conservatives.
unidentified		Well, that would alert the whole law enforcement organizations and they would get on the case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why liberals?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, tongues, reproduction, well, maybe I see what you mean.
unidentified		Well, the tongues are to tell them to shut up about secret electronic spying and angel dust drugging.
		The eyes are to tell them not to stare or watch other liberals and Marxists.
		And the ears cut off mean don't listen in on secret radio communications or conversations that do not concern you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That'd be like my show, right?
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		And the last message is obey orders or we will cut off your sex organ and cut you a new butthole with a red-hot nichrome wire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, if that's a message, that has meaning, particularly that last part.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sunk home with me, that's for sure.
unidentified		But they can't really do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what you got to do is you've got to close your eyes and imagine that for real.
		And then it's like you got the message with a red-hot wire.
		That really sounds unpleasant.
		Well, all right.
		In an interesting way, John Kogan, my guest coming up, is going to dovetail right into all this.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 8, 2002.
		Coast to Coast AM I gave you love.
		I bought this weed and made it to the top.
		I gave you all I have to give humiliation in its rage.
		But the white bird just sits in her cage unknown.
		Wanked but blind, she will die.
		Wanked but blind, she will die.
		I'm not a man.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired July 8th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't it interesting how songs come along that just sort of seem to fit in with exactly what you're talking about?
unidentified		Well, this report is going to get a lot of talk.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's entitled Earth Will Its Fire by 2050.
		90% of a whole bunch of different types of birds are gone.
		95% of tigers, 95% of all the tigers in the world are gone.
		That's 95%.
		My guest coming up will be very interesting, John Kogan, John Kogan's author of The New Order of Man's History.
		He's a graduate of the University of Washington.
		He is a Jeff pilot, lawyer, businessman, paleohistorian, who's researched many scientific disciplines in order to assemble a concise, comprehensive history of human events.
		That would be humans on Earth.
		Kogan contends That 10,500 years ago, our planet was hit by a six-mile-long asteroid that slammed into the North Atlantic.
		The entire Earth shuttered.
		Instant chaos followed, ending with the last ice age, pushing mankind to the brink of extinction, where the WWF says we are perched at the moment.
		His research has led him to conclude that most current scientific assumptions about man's evolution are all wrong, that 11,000 years ago there were indeed elaborate underwater cities.
		Underwater cities.
		Kogan has studied the Mayan calendar, the most accurate calendar ever developed and says the calendar begins at the time that that asteroid hit Earth.
unidentified		Sounds of the wind Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider.
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		Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to collect, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure.
		Plus, you'll get streamed and on-demand broadcasts of Art Bell, Summer Inside Shows, and two weekly classics.
		And as a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Norrie and special guests.
		If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
		Visit Coast2CoastAM.com to sign up today.
		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
		You know what?
		We are a wall to them.
		And I have a feeling that the wall is getting stronger, and it's going to be very tough for them to bust through it.
		But I want to warn people, because the global controllers realize power is slipping from their hands, they're going to really try to do whatever they can to try to get us back in line.
		And like a Bucking Bronco, all we got to do is throw the new world order off our back.
		Now we take you back to the night of July 8, 2002 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Comes now John Cogan, who I just told you a little bit about.
		John, welcome to the program.
		Thank you, Art.
		I asked you just prior to coming on whether you'd heard the first hour and this WWF report on the state of the world and the fact that by 2050, and by the way, folks, that entire report can be read on my webpage under the links portion.
		You can read the whole thing in detail.
		I didn't have enough time to get to all of it, but I got to a lot of the major facts.
		They're saying we need two new planets by 2050.
		They are, of course, saying they're sort of being facetious because they know we're not going to get them.
		But the facts are pretty stark and worrisome.
		What do you think, John?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I agree.
		There's a lot to worry about, and that's only half of it.
		In regards to my book, The New Order of Man's History, one of the things about the asteroid impact was that it caused the end of the ice age.
		And the ice actually had reached glacial maximum about 18,000 years ago.
		The asteroid hit 10,500 years ago, but the ice had held pretty even during that time.
		Then the asteroid hit, caused the melt, and all the ice was gone in 4,000 years.
		Now it took 120,000 years for the ice to come down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where did this massive asteroid come down?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Right in the middle of the North Atlantic Ocean.
		It crossed over Charleston, South Carolina as it was falling and came apart and left 3,000 divots all around Charleston that are still there to this day called the Carolina Bays.
		Left another 7,000 on the way out to where it hit.
		It hit 1,500 miles out in the Atlantic Ocean from Charleston on about a southwest course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's see.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, southeast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If that actually occurred.
		Southeast, of course.
		So right out there in the middle of the Atlantic.
		All right, that would have created, would have put enormous amounts of water.
		How big was this asteroid?
		Do you have any estimate?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was probably very close to six and a quarter miles in diameter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		And it was going 43,000 miles an hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've heard, because of all the populism of the movies about this kind of thing, that an asteroid that size would end the world, would end the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would likely just virtually sterilize everything.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		You used a key word there.
		That's what happened.
		You know, there was a great extinction of all of the large animals of the world, the megafauna at that time, 10,500 years ago, 70% of the megafauna of the world, the woolly mammoths, the woolly rhinoceros, etc., bisons, they all disappeared.
		They died within a couple hundred years after the asteroid hit, and that is what killed them.
		They were sterilized because the asteroid caused such a gigantic amount of volcanism in the North Atlantic Ocean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, other than the divots in South Carolina, I think you said.
		I mean, after all, scientists say, what, 65 million years ago, the dinosaurs got whacked by a big rock.
		And so what evidence other than South Carolina is there for this?
		I mean, sort of rattle off how you know this occurred.
		It's very important because it's central to everywhere we're going from here.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, an easy thing to remember, a little memory key, is that there's a great chain of evidence.
		First of all, you have the Carolina Bays, and now we're just talking physical proof.
		And the Carolina Bays, there's a picture of them in my book Of a few of them.
		They all point right toward the crater, which is in mid-Atlantic.
		And I give you the latitude and longitude of the crater.
		It's there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why don't you go ahead and give that to me if you really have it?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, gosh.
		I'd have to open my book.
		I don't have it handy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, wait for a break and open it.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'll get it, and I'll give it to you.
		It won't hurt you to read it in the book several times.
		And then we have evidence of the submergence of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.
		It was above water during most of the Ice Age.
		And then we find that because of the volcanism that this impact created, sea floor sediments are swept right up to the Mid-Atlantic Ridge like dirt in a bathtub.
		And then, as the volcanism progressed for three days, it blew one-tenth of the Atlantic Ocean up into the atmosphere.
		And then the wind blew it over the land, and it deposited this dirt called LOS, L-O-E-S-S, very fine, good stuff, all over Eurasia.
		And then the Great Death Cloud, continental in size, swept up over Siberia and killed probably 40 million woolly mammoths and other animals and swept them in water toward the Arctic Ocean, left many of them standing there in the mud, standing up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we know that happened.
		They found vegetation in their mouths, that sort of thing.
		We all know that's true.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And then finally, the key to this art is the Camp Century Greenland Ice Core.
		A few years ago, after I'd already written some of the book and everything else, I walked into the University of Washington bookstore, and I saw this volume sitting there, and I just about died because it's called the Quaternary Environments.
		That means ice age.
		And I thought, and then I saw from just scanning the book a little bit that they'd taken an ice core at latitude 77 degrees in Greenland.
		And I thought, man, if they took an ice core, it's got to show the asteroid, the evidence of the asteroid impact at the level of 10,500 years ago.
		So I can tell you that I bought that book, went to the nearest tavern, sat down, had a beer, lit up the cigar, and turned to the index to ice scores because it was all on the line right there.
		I was either right or I was wrong.
		And I started reading under iScores, and there it is.
		All the proof I ever could have asked for that the asteroid had hit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how did they lay it out?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, how does that proof add up?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sort of give me the layman's version.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Sure, you bet.
		Real simple and straightforward.
		At the level of, you can count the years on the i-scored like tree rings.
		Gotcha.
		And so you just go on down, and when you hit the level of 10,500, here's what they found.
		They found there was an instantaneous 20 degrees Fahrenheit increase in the temperature of the atmosphere of the Earth.
		It went up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was the increase again by how much?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		20 degrees Fahrenheit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		20 degrees Fahrenheit.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's enormous.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's never happened in the history of the Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that is enormous.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		And the ocean temperature went up also, but that wasn't in the ice core.
		Two, the carbon dioxide content of the atmosphere increased by almost three times.
		And the question there is, what's the source of it?
		Where did it come from?
		The ice age was cold and dry and deficient in carbon dioxide.
		Well, it came from the magma that exploded, and it came from the oceans.
		95% of the carbon dioxide that...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, right now, for example, if several of the world's biggest volcanoes let loose fully, even fully, we would experience some change in temperature.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I won't remember Pinatubo when it went.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was only a very tiny, tiny change in temperature.
		So something that would change at 20 degrees Fahrenheit virtually overnight, that would have to be enormously more catastrophic than volcanoes.
		And the only thing I can think of would be what you're talking about.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		The authors of the book are four PhDs from Australia.
		And they use exclamation points.
		And I've never seen those in a scientific paper before.
		The third thing that the core shows is volcanic ash, lots of it.
		And then four, the last thing the core shows is sea salt.
		Now, if you take Greenland and the pack ice that covered half the oceans of the world, went way down, it was thousands of miles away from any open water.
		And here's copious sea salts in this core.
		So you have all four of these things.
		And then the question is, what kind of an event could possibly produce these four things instantaneously all at once?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and the answer is only the asteroid impact because up there In other words, with the exception of what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The missing link.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The exception of the missing link.
		Other than that, the evolution of man has been going on, according to science, for a really long time, more than 10,500 years.
		And according to you, it couldn't have been because man would have been as extinct as everything else had that rock hit.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, man made it, just barely, by the skin of his teeth, but a lot of animals didn't make it.
		But man was coming along.
		At that time, 10,500, you have to have a picture of the world scene.
		Man had developed in North Africa.
		That's where he came down from the trees, turned into a hunter-gatherer, and then slowly from that point started to develop a civilization.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many of us humans do you think there might have been 10,500 years ago?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm going to really, really surprise you with this one.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		I think there are anywhere from 20 to 60 million human beings running around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a lot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a ton.
		But man had to spread out because North Africa dried up From about 40,000 years ago to 10,500, it was steadily drying up and it became the Sahara Desert.
		And that was man's homeland.
		But he had to leave.
		He had to get out of there because there wasn't any room to live.
		And people started leaving, and they went north to Europe, which was still in the grip of the ice.
		Some went east, and a bunch went west to South America.
		They took off in reed boats, just like Thor Heyerdahl proved, and they were headed for Brazil, the Amazon River, which at that time was semi-arid and a very pleasant place to live.
		And so they took off from the Sahara at Lyxus up by Gibraltar, and they coasted on the Canary Current to South America.
		So that was kind of the picture.
		And just as man is successfully moving around the world at 10.5, that's when the asteroid hits.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And are you able to detect where the pockets were that some survived?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I would, I guess I would just say I'm speculating or guessing at this, Art, but it would be outside of the prevailing winds that carried the death cloud to the east over Eurasia and to the west over northern South America.
		And so man somehow was out of the way of that cloud.
		Now that cloud was so high and it contained such vicious gases that it destroyed the ozone layer, which exists, a very thin little fragile layer.
		And that's all that is between us and being fried by radiation from the sun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the word sterilize was probably pretty much right on.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		It's right on, because that's what happened.
		The first thing that solar ultraviolet radiation does is sterilize the object it hits.
		It attacks your body in certain order.
		The first thing it wipes out is the reproductive tracts.
		Next, it's the bone marrow.
		Then it's organs and so on and so forth.
		And very little of it does tremendous harm.
		And so the great animals were out in the open.
		After the disaster, they loved the sun.
		So they stood around in the open and enjoyed it, and it killed them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we have been evolving since then, since essentially 10,500 years ago, a kind of a reset switch got hit.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
		And poor man didn't go out, but he got radiated.
		And here's what it did to him.
		It was all bad.
		He lost a lot of physical status.
		I mean, physically, he became smaller.
		And his brain became smaller.
		Really?
		Yeah, the Cro-Magnon skeletons, 200 of them, found in southern France, they're great big fellows.
		And those skeletons existed from about 40,000 before present to 10,500.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying when it hit, after it hit, the effects on man were we got smaller and dumber?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we got smaller and dumber, and our lifespan shortened.
		where uh...
		for a site for hearing described man prior to the He was over six feet tall on the average and had a bigger head, bigger brain.
		Probably was smarter than we are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Better IQ, right?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		They were pretty good men.
		They made a good football team or whatever.
		But then the rest of mankind kind of shrunk with all the rest of the animals.
		Most of the animals that we have on the earth today are smaller than the ones that existed prior to 10.5.
		And so man, well, in the Middle Ages, man was only averaging 5'2 ⁇ tall, 5'4 ⁇ , you know, a little guy.
		And so actually, after 10-5, mankind goes into the Mesolithic Age, so-called Middle Stone Age.
		And that's a time of total quiet on the earth.
		There's just hardly any activity by mankind.
		And then all of a sudden, 5,000 years later, 5,000 years ago from now, after the Mesolithic Age is over, here pops up four civilizations all at once, like mushrooms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we'll come back to that in a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you say mankind, you of course mean men and women, the human race.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, all right.
		So it's smaller and dumber.
		Here's a story for you.
		Four Portuguese women stood topless at their windows because they thought they were getting a mammogram by satellite.
		Yes.
		The women who live in San Bartholomew, and this is in Spain, report they got a telephone call from a woman who claimed she was a doctor and that she said the procedure wouldn't cost them anything.
		All they'd do is go to the window and bare their breasts.
		And the satellite would do the rest and perform an instant mammogram on them.
unidentified		Uh...
unidentified		Like, wait.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They all complained to the police.
		So, you see, maybe 10,500 years ago, we did get smaller and dumber.
		And I don't know, folks, watch the windows in your neighborhood.
unidentified		You're listening to Arc Bell Somewhere in Time on Premiere Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 8, 2002.
		Tonight, tonight.
		Tonight, tonight.
		Here are reasons, they will die, reach.
		There are reasons, I will reach.
		Here are fire, they will die, to take the time for us.
		Here are reasons, I will be here, my man.
		But I know the reason, why you keep me so high.
		I love you and me.
		The hurt doesn't show, but the pain is still gross.
		So I'll pretend that you are me.
		I'll be here, my man.
		I'll be here for the night.
		Oh, Lord.
		I'll be here for the night.
		I'll be here for the night.
		Oh, Lord.
		Oh, Lord.
		I'll be here for the night.
		Oh, Lord.
		I'll be here for the night.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Summer in Time, on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 8, 2002.
		Now, you're listening to Art Bell, Summer in Time, on Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting thing just popped onto my website.
		You might want to see it sent to me allegedly by a police officer from Omaha who says last year a fellow officer who wants to remain anonymous and I were posing for a photograph taken by another officer when we got the picture and they're in uniform by the way it showed a strange object in the background that looked like a spaceship.
		All the guys at the station said I should send it to you and see what you think it could be so I'm asking you what do you think?
unidentified		What is it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well I don't know you know usually when you look at these photographs and I don't want to offend you officer usually when you look at these photographs it is the UFO that looks like the stenciled in fake object right and it's probably just an artifact of the camera or the JPEG that he said but the police officers look like they were drawn in.
		The UFO is real.
		But the police officers look like they were drawn in.
		I'm sure that's not the case.
		I'm sure it's just an artifact of the photograph.
		But you might want to take a look.
		It is interesting.
		I mean it's a classic saucer cut behind this building behind these police officers looking over the water.
		That's on the website right now, artbell.com.
unidentified		Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider.
		You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price.
		The package includes podcasting, which automatically downloads shows for you, and the iPhone app.
		You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows.
		That's over a thousand shows for you to collect and enjoy.
		If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
		Visit Coast2CoastAM.com to sign up.
		You're listening to Arc Bell somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 8, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music Now, this is pretty interesting stuff, and I don't want to give anything away before we do it, but Linda Moulton Howe will be here Wednesday night, and she has just obtained another interview with Paulina Zelitsky down in Havana.
		And, you know, they've made this incredible discovery, and it's even going to get stranger.
		I know what the story is, but I'm not going to give it away here.
		I'm going to let Linda tell you what Paulina Zelitsky has now found, 2,200 feet below the water off the coast of Cuba.
		Now, we already know this much, that Zelitsky has side-scan radar, and now more, that shows what seems to be an underwater city there.
		Now, I'm talking about pyramidal shapes, pyramidal buildings, what appear to be buildings and roads, and wide open areas, and areas of civilization, roads, you know, buildings.
		These are the things I'm talking about, folks.
		Under the water, a half a mile under the water in off the coast of Cuba.
		Now, there are startling new things we're about to learn later this week about this story, but in the meantime, it seems to me that it might relate to what my guest right now, John Cogan, is saying.
		John, would it surprise you if they confirm that in fact there is a city, a whole area of geography found off the coast of Cuba, nearly a half mile below, which if you were talking about the evolution of man would have to be millions and millions of years ago, certainly ice ages would not account for a city a half mile below the ocean.
		No way.
		The last ice age might account for 900 feet, they say, not 2,200 feet.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		What do you say?
		Yeah, I agree 100%.
		I've heard about that.
		There is a possibility of subsidence of the ocean bottom.
		It might have been higher and it was taken down.
		The asteroid caused the mid-Atlantic Ocean to go down about 10,000 feet.
		It sunk the mid-Atlantic ridge, the mountain chain that was pretty much above.
		That might have, it might have affected Cuba in that way, too.
		So it's quite possible that there is a city there, and there may be an explanation along that line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there are those who speculate that there was land connection between Cuba and Central America, and all of that might have gone down.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's the only thing I can think of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But to begin to find underwater cities a half mile down, you've got to scratch your head and say, look, there's not much that would account for this in the last many millions of years, and we weren't making roads millions of years ago, so gee, let's think about this for a moment.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a puzzle.
		I've read another report that off of India.
		Oh, yes, yeah, they found one there.
		And this one's in much more shallow water.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Off Greece, off Okinawa, there are a number.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		I guess so, too.
		Yes, uh-huh.
		And the underwater archaeology, you know, is quite the thing.
		Anything under the ocean, you can just fairly well say, is over 10,500 years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you also believe, don't you, that man at one time lived in cities under the water?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that correct?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		No, not me, Archie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do not?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		No, I think whoever mentioned my name together with underwater cities was just more or less saying, kind of like you and I are now, that they're there and they will be found, and we've already found an awful lot of evidence of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought you meant actually living underwater universities.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The kind of cities we're talking about now, all right.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old, let's go back to basics here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old is our universe?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		15 billion years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the scientists are right.
unidentified		Yep.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		It sure is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It probably was a Big Bang 15 billion years ago.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Great big explosion, and we're still writing it out right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I have a great variety of guests on this program, John, from people who believe that man has only been here 6,000 years to guests who believe man has been here again and again and again, that civilizations have come and gone and man has come and gone through events like the one you're talking about and others.
		Where do you fit in?
		How old?
		How long do you think man's been walking around?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, as a hominoid, that is, a bipedal on our back legs and all that sort of stuff, a couple million years.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Before that, we'd drift off into the ape family and then down to little tiny things that ran around under the trees.
unidentified		We were underfoot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're an evolutionist.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, I sure am.
		When the dinosaurs were king, man was just a little animal scooting around in the grass trying to not get stepped on.
		And then the dinosaurs were wiped out, and that allowed the mammals to take over.
		And they went in all directions.
		Some of them went back into the sea like whales.
		Some of them learned to fly.
		Some of them burrowed holes like gophers and groundhogs.
		Some of them headed for the trees and went up in the trees and that became monkeys and apes.
		And then one of those apes got a little smarter than the rest after 60 million years about and decided to come down again.
		So that's us.
		The ape came down and learned to be bipedal, generalized body.
		The only thing he could do to save himself in competition with the other animals on the ground was use his brain.
		The brain is all he had.
		He didn't have any teeth, no fangs, no hairy coat, no specialization of any kind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We didn't have any teeth?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		not fang-like, you know, nothing that we could really Oh, I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		We just had simple teeth.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		So the only thing that we could work with was the brain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the brain.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		And so that's what man started in doing and became a hunter-gatherer.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		But with this body that was so generalized, he had to learn to make tools, had to learn to cooperate with the other hunter-gatherers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so really, you know, this is traditional evolution you're talking about here.
		And I'm curious why you agree with the traditional evolutionists and then depart from mainstream science with what you think occurred 10,500 years ago.
		I mean, that's where you suddenly take off.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		But art is just one of those things.
		In all immodesty, I have to say I'm right, and Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, and all the rest are wrong.
		And I don't hesitate to say that because evidence keeps pouring in that what I say is right, and evidence keeps pouring in that what they say is wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, the asteroid happened.
		Let's talk about that.
		It happened.
		We got smaller, dumber.
		How did we then come to dominate Earth?
		I mean, we were really pushed back.
		I mean, how did man recover?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, he came back with these four civilizations, and then the march of history comes toward us right now, and we know this history.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What four civilizations do you refer to?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		The Indus in India, Tigris-Euphrates, the first one is called Sumer, and then Egypt, and then a little bit later, Central America.
		These four all developed at just about the same time, 5,000 years ago.
		And they're all very similar, but they weren't connected.
		In other words, it turned out in 1492, when Europeans saw Montezuma and his country, that, Lord, this is just like we've heard Egypt was and Sumer and so on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, out of curiosity, could this be why the biblical conservative folk out there, the fundamentalists, are saying that man really has only been here 6,000 years ago and are able to cite some degree of scientific evidence on their side.
		Maybe what they're citing is evidence of the Grand Slam 10,500 years ago.
		Because you made mention of a sort of a jump in man's ability at about, what, 5,000 years ago, something like that.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that wouldn't be all that far apart from what they're saying with regard to when they think man first appeared.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe that's what they're reading.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, it could be.
		It could be because, in fact, they'd be part and parcel with academia because academia believes that's man's first civilization of any and all civilizations.
		Somehow he just appeared and in a couple hundred years was able to build the great pyramid.
		And my, that's quite a feat because we don't know how to duplicate it today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		And so anyway, naturally, yes, someone could take that slant.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Now, that's not the case because we do have a lot of things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm just suggesting, I mean, there are, believe me, creationists who cite who have science behind them, they claim, on their side, and they do cite scientific facts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, those facts could be certainly drawn from what you're suggesting about what happened to man and when man began to sort of recover, they could be drawing scientific facts from that time and concluding that man has only been here for 6,000 years.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's true.
		Yeah, there's a little something to be said to that in that.
		But I've explained it as to the way I see it, that there was a first civilization, and it existed in just about the same places and did just about the same things.
		And if we only could resurrect it, we would see this civilization around North Africa.
		It was around the Mediterranean.
		It was in South America, Tia Tehuanaco, up there in the Andes and everything else.
		And so this first civilization disappeared when that asteroid hit.
		And for 5,000 years, man just practically disappeared until he re-emerged.
		And here's these new civilizations again.
		And they look just like the first civilization, which was a high Stone Age civilization, very much a maritime civilization.
		Went all around the world.
		Got to Antarctica.
		I found, well, there's a book by Professor Hepgood, Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings.
		He found maps that show Antarctica ice-free, or largely ice-free.
		And so on.
		So the first civilization was here, and it was all over the world.
		Some ruins are still there.
		Most of them got knocked down by the asteroid impact, and so on.
		But there's plenty of evidence of the first civilization.
		It's everywhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who joins you scientifically in this?
unidentified		Anybody?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		No, just me.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Me in the library, I guess, in Seattle and at the University of Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		And books, and so on.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		And a lifetime interest in this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your background is kind of unique.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were a jet pilot?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, when I was young, yep, and I loved it.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		I was in the Air Force and flew T-33s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Trainers.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Trainers.
		Oh, yeah.
		That was great fun.
		I was peacetime, fortunately, so it was all fun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're a lawyer?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, became a lawyer after that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And a businessman.
		And somehow, I don't see where any of that background launches you into a whole new theory of an asteroid hitting Earth 10,500 years ago.
		I mean, there's just nothing in your background that would suggest you would get that interest and move in that direction.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I suppose that's right.
		It was just a lifelong interest.
		I read in that area and so on.
		One time I picked up a book that was written by a great German scientist, Otto Mook.
		The title of the book was Secret of Atlantis by Otto Mook.
		And he actually should get total credit for originating the idea of the asteroid impact at 10,500 years ago.
		His book was very astounding, and I read it and believed that what he said was absolutely true.
		I would call my book a compliment to that book because I found more evidence to support him.
		And then also I went before the asteroid impact and analyzed the world scene.
		And then after the asteroid impact, again, I analyzed the world scene.
		So I take a little different approach to what happened, but he certainly should get credit for the idea.
		And he did an excellent job, too.
		He was quite authentic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what does all this mean to us?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, no matter how it happened, considering present day and looking to our future and looking to the current world and what could or might happen, what difference does this make to us today?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		We can get nailed again anytime, Mark.
		We're wrapped up in our own little problems and stuff.
		But you know, we just got missed by one a couple weeks ago that went by 75,000 miles away, one-third of the way to the moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, actually, they didn't even know about it until I think it was one or two days afterward.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's always the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The ones that are coming right at us, they don't see until they've passed.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Now, this was a little guy, but it could have done a lot of harm anyway.
		And so we can get nailed anytime, and if we do, wow, it could be all over.
		A couple things about asteroids that people don't understand.
		They're like bullets.
		Now, remember, a bullet's kind of a small thing.
		What makes it deadly is the speed.
		If a little boy throws a little rock at you, it doesn't hurt.
		But if he puts that, this little rock being the lead bullet, now if he puts it in a slingshot and shoots you with it, that's fine.
unidentified		Yeah.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		But now if it's put into a bullet and shot, now the speed is so great, that's what does the harm.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		The speed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so it is with asteroids.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And that's why they're so deadly, because they're going so fast.
		I have to laugh at the academians that talk about an asteroid impact, and especially this one from 1980 that said the dinosaurs got it.
		It says, what happened?
		Well, it hit, it threw a bunch of dust up in the air that circled the world, stayed there for about 60 days.
		The dinosaurs all died because they couldn't find food.
		Well, that's ridiculous.
		They're displaying a total lack of understanding of geophysics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, what do you think happened?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man, that impact was probably just as good as the one 10,500 years ago.
		It affected the whole world in many ways.
		Volcanism, it probably shifted the crust of the earth a little bit.
		It might have caused it to tilt a little bit.
		That's what wiped out all the woolly mammoths.
		They were picked up and moved right up toward the pole 1,500 miles.
		And they froze instantly, and they're still there.
		And we can eat them today, showing how fast they were moved.
		It had to be a catastrophe that was quick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm told that if we had warning of something six miles in diameter, something of that size or larger, that we wouldn't be able to do anything about it anyway.
		We might be able to do something about a relatively small object, but something that size, modern man, even with all our space shuttles and rocketry and the rest of it, and even the hydrogen bomb we have, none of it would save us if something was on the way.
		Do you believe that to be?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		I have to say, I think that's right.
		I don't know what we could do.
		If it's coming at you at 43,000 miles an hour, it's going to be awful hard to hit with one of our little rockets because they're pretty poopy slow.
		They're not that fast.
		Think of how you aim at something like that.
		It would just be so hard.
		I don't see how we can do it with our technology at present.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're claiming that this hit 10,500 years ago is evidence that it happens fairly regularly.
		It happened to the dinosaurs and probably other times, and certainly 10,500 years ago.
		So the caution from all of this is that it could happen again any minute.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Any second, any minute.
		We live in a swarm of asteroids.
		Well, because of modernist astronomy, I guess is what I should say.
		We now can see the universe a lot more clearly, and the more we look, the more we see.
		They're everywhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Pause.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're at the top of the hour here, John.
		They are.
		We do live in a swarm, and one of them, one day, is going to get us.
		And the fact of the matter is, we probably won't see it coming.
		But that's probably a good thing, because all we do is worry anyway.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 8th, 2002.
		When a digger digger down about an hour ago took a look around, it wouldn't be a wind blow with a little girl in a Hollywood bungalow.
		I'm a-Dot org.
		I'm a-
		Short people got no reason Short people got no reason Short people got no reason to live They got little
		hands, little eyes They walk around telling great big lies They got little noses, tiny little teeth Yeah, well, that's for you on your nasty little teeth
		Well, I don't want no short people Don't want no short people Don't want no short people Oh, yeah Short people are just the same as you and I
		Oh, it looks like all men are close until the day they die.
		wonderful world people got to meet nobody You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 8th 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey at work in Spain, why not here, right?
		The NSA in search of something to do since the end of the Cold War has announced that today's mass mammogram for North America will be conducted at 12 noon Eastern Standard Time today by satellite.
		Ladies, all you have to do is go to the window, and you'll get an NSA supplied mammogram in the mail several days later.
unidentified		Don't want no shot.
unidentified		Don't want no shot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Keep your eyes open, folks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We are about to noon Eastern Standard.
unidentified		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
		You know what?
		We are a wall to them.
		And I have a feeling that the wall is getting stronger and it's going to be very tough for them to bust through it.
		But I want to warn people, because the global controllers realize power is slipping from their hands, they're going to really try to do whatever they can to try to get us back in line.
		And like a Bucking Bronco, all we got to do is throw the new world order off our back.
		Now we take you back to the night of July 8, 2002 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Art Bell, Somewhere in Time I thought short people would be good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, what do you think?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		I think so too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Shorter and dumber.
		All right, well, listen, you know, all of that was then, and this is now, and I'm probably going to drive you right out of your area of expertise.
		But, I mean, here we are with, you know, 6 billion plus people and an environment that's deteriorating and a world that is about a third used up according to this report.
		And the only thing that could change things, and we were talking about this in the first hour, really, would be a drastic reduction in population by whatever means, you know, disease, war, big rock, whatever.
		Any comments in that area?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, boy, the asteroid did a good job.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I see it.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		I think I estimated in the book, New Order of Man's History, that it probably took out 90% of the human beings that search.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, you can't always depend on a rock.
unidentified		Yeah, that's right.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		And We don't have anything that's a sure thing other than that, I guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's war.
		War might reduce population a lot.
		But I mean, are you one of those who believes that things are cycling up out of control environmentally and in every other way you can think of, just about sort of cycling up out of control and headed toward what?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		I agree with you 100%.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I don't know where we're headed, but boy, I'll tell you, definitely we're out of control.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so you agree with the direction, just not the destination.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what it is either.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Right, I don't know.
		You know, think back just a little bit to the people of the world when the Sahara dried up and they had to move out of there.
		They didn't know where to go.
		Some went to Europe and started the art caves.
		That's how we know they got there.
		Some went to South America and read boats and stuff.
		They probably thought the world was ending.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Their world was.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		It really was.
		It ended once when the Sahara dried up.
		Then it ended a second time when the asteroid hit.
		And they remember that.
		Some of them saw the asteroid and all that sort of stuff.
		So they remember it.
		And their legends pass on the event to us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then it really remembers.
		There's my next question.
		What in legend, aside from pure science, what in legend, there ought to be some remnants, right, of man's memory of this drastic occurrence etched in caves or something underwater maybe that sunk or, you know, evidence that that event occurred.
		That would be a major thing that man would knock into stone if he had to, right?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's right.
		And he did, too.
		Oh, yeah.
		Cultural evidence of the asteroid is everywhere.
		For instance, just to start with the most obvious one, Noah's story in the Bible, the flood.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly the story of the asteroid impact.
		The flood legends are worldwide.
		There's something like 500 of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's look at it a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An asteroid that size, aside from putting, I think you said 10% of the ocean into the air.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Aside from that, what would the watery impact be?
		I mean, what would have happened to the land masses?
		Who would be underwater?
		Who would be above water?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
		Well, if you look at a map of the sea floor of the North Atlantic Ocean, you see all these fracture lines.
		Thousands of them.
		And that's the Earth's crust showing stress.
		Well, Ozol broke, and magma came through there, flashed the water into steam.
		Think of this, Art.
		How big a cloud that made.
		Think of one gallon of milk sitting in the grocery store.
		Let's make that one gallon of seawater.
		Now you drop that on magma, which is 1,600 degrees Fahrenheit or 21800 degrees Fahrenheit.
		It flashes to steam.
		The volume of steam created by that one gallon of seawater is 1,672 gallons of steam in volume.
		So in other words, you've multiplied that by 1,672 times.
		Now you can get an idea then of the magnitude of this cloud that was created by the asteroid impact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here's Rob in Toronto, Canada.
		We're heard all across Canada.
		And he's saying, Art, I've been researching mass extinctions for three years now, and your guest is full of it.
		He could convince me if he could supply a crater.
		Where is the impact site?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Okay, here we go.
		I looked this up, Art, on the break.
		And if you get a map of the North Atlantic Ocean, take a look at these coordinates.
		24 degrees north latitude, 61 degrees west longitude.
		That's your crater.
		Now draw a line from that right to Charleston, South Carolina.
		And then you have the asteroid's flight path.
		And it kept on going past Charleston right up to Alaska where it first appeared.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, when we look at 24 North and 61 West, what's there?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		You'll see a crater.
		It's not the round circular type you like, but the asteroid broke in two just as it hit.
		And you'll see two half moons side by side right there.
		Great big boogers.
		24,000 feet deep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and it filled it in.
		It was deeper.
		But that's the crater.
		And these 3,000 Carolina bays all point right toward it.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you say that that's proof.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are there other similar areas?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we were talking about legends.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes, there are many flood legends.
unidentified		No, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was asking briefly about craters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, are there other similar areas, or is 24 North, 61 West, distinctive enough that it's apart from everything else you would see at the ocean bottom?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		You just said it.
		It is.
unidentified		Yeah, it is.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		It's very, very striking.
		It's just a hole in the middle of nowhere.
		Yeah.
		And it's probably, you know, two-thirds of all the asteroids that have ever hit the Earth have hit the ocean because the ocean's two-thirds of the surface of the Earth.
unidentified		Makes sense.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		We've got to learn to look for craters underwater.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the evidence of it would be much more difficult to discuss because there would be so much less evidence, except in the ice cores, as you point out there.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There seems to be irrefutable evidence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it to the point that it's just about irrefutable with the ice coring?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's what I'd say, Art.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't see how anyone can come to a conclusion other than that an asteroid hit 10,500 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you were to present the ice core evidence to a geologist today, a mainstream Geologist from one of the universities, for example, that you named.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How would they explain away the evidence in the ice core that you talked about?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		They try to take each item one by one, the temperature rays, the carbon dioxide, the ash, the sea salt.
		They try to take each one and just speculate as to what might have happened, like the sea salt.
		Well, there must have been huge winds that blew this sea salt 2,000 or 3,000 miles up into Greenland.
		Because, you know, ordinarily sea salt's left in the ocean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that would be the wind, they would say.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so that's the wind theory.
		Now, the ash, it has to be blown from some volcanism somewhere, and it has to come another 2,000 or 3,000 miles from some other direction, and there's really no wind up there that carries it in the first place.
		Then the carbon dioxide, how are you going to, what if you and I decided that let's just triple the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere today?
		Let's just do it for the heck of it.
		The first thing we'd both look at each other and say, well, where are we going to get it?
		Well, magma can provide quite a bit of it, but that's not enough.
		You've got to go to the very bottom of the oceans.
		That's where it is.
		It lies in the deepest parts of the oceans in solution in seawater.
		Now, the question is, how are you going to get that out of there and up into the atmosphere?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Big rock.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the asteroids.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do we know that it do we know?
		Can we go and take measurements at that deep part of the ocean?
		We know that much carbon dioxide is there?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we do.
		Yeah, I, you know, personally, I just done research, and I have to say that it's there.
		The scientists, ocean scientists and everything, they know it's there, and they have a theory of how it gets there and so on.
		It's part of the atmosphere that actually goes into the water, and the currents take it there, and then it just lies there, and you can't get it out unless you have a tremendous volcanism, and the currents that are created in the ocean carry it to the eruptive point, and then it is blasted up into the atmosphere.
		That's how it gets up there.
		And so that's what happened.
		And then, of course, carbon dioxide is the element that causes global warming.
		It heats up the earth.
		And that's what melted the ice sheets in 4,000 years.
		Otherwise, it would have been 120,000 years to melt.
		And you and I are just finding out what it's like.
		Here's a little thought I had on that one, Art.
		You were talking about the shape of the Earth.
		And yeah, it's bad.
		And I noticed that Alaska has experienced 30 years of warming.
		And it's alarming.
		In South Alaska around Soldatna, there's a tremendous infestation of spruce beetles that have killed all the trees.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, there are tundra smelling.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		And the thing is that it's warmed up there.
		And now it's fine habitat for some of these obnoxious insects like that and so on.
		Now, Alaska has clean air as opposed to Southern California.
		And I would expect if global warming was caused by human beings, that Southern California would have more evidence of global warming than Alaska, which is a lot cleaner.
		But it seems like it's the other way around.
		Alaska has experienced tremendous warming.
		And it's evident in the glaciers that are shrinking, and it's evident in the obnoxious insects that are in the city.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's because the ice in that part of Alaska that you're talking about is very tenuous anyway.
		In other words, it exists at a very small temperature margin, and you just fool with it by a degree or a portion of a degree or a few degrees, whatever science says.
		It doesn't take much.
		And instead of ice, you have no ice.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's that simple.
		So they noticed it first.
		In a temperate, temperate climate like Los Angeles.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not going to get that kind of noticeable change that you are where you have ice that is in this thin little world where it lives and has ice.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does that make sense?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a fair answer, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I believe that.
		So it's the first thing that you would see.
		Now, we're obviously continuing to warm right now.
		Do you have any thoughts on where it's headed?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I think we're going to get quite a bit warmer.
		That great Serbian mathematician, Myron Milankovic, he's the one that says three things really have to do with ice ages, and that's the tilt of the Earth, which varies over a certain period of time.
		The wobble, as the Earth goes around, it wobbles around the axis.
		And the other one is the orbit of the Earth around the Sun.
		It has a certain period.
		When those three things all come together to reduce the heat to the northern hemisphere in about the 65-degree latitude, then we get an ice age.
		And so we're in the warming cycle now.
		We're not in the cooling cycle.
		And so we can expect a lot more warming.
		And it's just in the cosmos.
		There's really nothing we can do about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was 113 degrees here where I live today.
unidentified		Boy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe 114.
		Wow.
		Yeah, I mean, it is the desert, so it does occasionally get really warm.
		But, I mean, this was really warm.
		And I'm kind of like the ice in Alaska.
		In other words, here where I live, we exist with technology, but it's right on the edge.
		I mean, if you were to add another five or ten degrees to our maximum temperatures here, it would be not livable.
		So I'm kind of like the ice.
unidentified		Yeah, I see.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's hot down there.
		I know.
		I've driven through Death Valley, and I can tell you, isn't that something?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Death Valley probably was around 127 today, it'd be a good guess.
		So here, I mean, they call it Death Valley for a reason.
		People have died there.
		A lot of people have died there.
		And so in that sense, we're like the ice.
		Now, what do you think?
		Are you expecting the possibility?
		I know you've studied the Mayan calendar, for example, right?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you know about the Mayan calendar?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
		It starts with the asteroid.
		And several people have figured that out.
		Autumk, the fellow that talks about the asteroid impact, brings that out very well.
		He was quite a mathematician, very expert at that sort of thing.
		And yes, they saw it coming, and they have a legend about it.
		It's called the Feathered Serpent.
		They saw the feathered serpent taken from the sky.
		And that, of course, was the asteroid.
		They saw it.
		It looked like that.
		They'd never seen a contrail before.
		And here comes this contrail with stuff falling from it that makes more little contrails.
		And that, of course, were the boulders that fell around Charleston, South Carolina.
		So they saw all that, and it smacks the earth.
		And then the catastrophe happens when the great death cloud comes over them.
		It kills everybody, rips them apart, kills all the animals, tears down the trees, everything else.
		It was such a catastrophe that they started their calendar at that time.
		And their calendar is very much like ours in its comprehension.
		We have weeks, months, years.
		They have other things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mayan calendar ends in 2012.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		What it is, that's its anniversary.
		Every 5,000-something years, a little more, it comes around and the three dates that make up their computation come together.
		The first time they started 8,498 years ago, and then it came together about 3,113 B.C. And now it's going to come together again about every 5,000 years.
		And so this is the second anniversary of the Mayan calendar coming up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so you don't necessarily see anything catastrophic coming with the end of the Mayan calendar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You just see it as a place where they stopped.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
		In other words, it could have been computed any time for thousands of years ago that it was going to come together at this time.
		Yeah, it's just a mathematical matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we'll just have another anniversary and that's it.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		It was like we remember, weren't there a lot of predictions about the end of the world at 2000?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, not really.
		I mean, there were some.
		They were worried about Y2K, and they did a lot of work on Y2K to fix it.
		The worry was the computers.
		But this time there weren't too many end-of-the-worlders, really.
		Yeah, it was more of an end of technological civilization as we know it with computers.
		But I mean, that wouldn't be the end of the world.
		Well, I don't think it might.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		It would be for a lot of people, I guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
		And I might be one of them, too.
		But that didn't happen.
		I mean, a lot of money was spent, and it was maybe a little overdone, but basically, they did prevent a catastrophic occurrence.
		Well, me too.
unidentified		I feel it in my tongue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's something coming.
		You can feel it, right?
		I think we all can.
unidentified		Love is all around me.
unidentified		I'm so feeling rough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to ask John a little bit about the New World Order.
unidentified		I'm going to ask John a little bit about the New World Order.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's got a question here that he wants to be asked, which says, why is the New World or the New Order correct?
		Maybe he doesn't mean New World Order, New Order, or is that a synonym for New World Order?
		Maybe not.
unidentified		Steve Wark Bell, Somewhere in Time, on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an oncore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 8th, 2002.
		Beginning there'll be no end, cause all my love can depend.
		I see your face before me, as I lay on my bed.
		I kinda get the thinking, of all the things you said.
		I gave your promises, and I gave my feelings.
		I see the woman alive, in everything I do.
		I see my life now, the earth is in that house, the divine.
		I keep home.
		I keep coming in the room and the moon has dark.
		Wherever you go, the man before.
		You will come and go when the bullet hits the phone.
		You will come and go when the bullet hits the phone.
		I'm falling down a spiral, just a measure.
		Love a bus messenger, all alone.
		Can't get no connection, can't get through.
		Where are you?
		Well, good night, we're having honest guilt in mind.
		Let's talk around the borderline.
		from the head man.
		You know damn well he has been cheated.
		I'm out of my head.
		Let this man have been by me.
		My feet can move and move and stop.
		Where they go, I'll never go far.
		You will not know When I'm running in the morning You will not know When I'm running in the morning Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired July 8th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is John Kogan, who says that 10,500 years ago, a big rock, six miles or better, crashed into Earth, sort of hitting a reset button, changing everything.
		Mid-Atlantic, 24 degrees north latitude, 61 degrees west longitude.
		It's an interesting theory.
		I think he thinks it's a lot more than that.
		We're going to ask him a couple questions about old order thinking and new order thinking, whatever that means.
		We're about to find out.
		And then we're going to open the phone lines, and I'm going to let you ask questions as you will.
		if you see a hole in his theory we want to be dialing about now i'm at Looking for the truth?
unidentified		You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
		You know what?
		We are a wall to them.
		And I have a feeling that the wall is getting stronger, and it's going to be very tough for them to bust through it.
		But I want to warn people, because the global controllers realize power is slipping from their hands, they're going to really try to do whatever they can to try to get us back in line.
		And like a Buck and Bronco, all we got to do is throw the new world order off our back.
		Now we take you back to the night of July 8, 2002 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Art Bell, Somewhere in Time All right, well, I was having fun with him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess you refer to Old Order thinking, John, as the traditional scientific view of how man has progressed here on Earth and geologic history and all the rest of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's Old Order.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's right, Art, yes.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		And I equate that pretty much with academia.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when you say New Order, do you mean John Cogan, or is there anybody to join you?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Art, you're making me be awfully immodest here, but that's probably true.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, the new order is just an idea of three points, and I guess I did originate them, so I guess I'd have to say that, but I was trying to be a little more modest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's all right.
		Let's see what people have to say about this.
		It'll be very interesting.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with John Cogan.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Can you hear me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear you indeed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		This is Melvin from Omaha, Nebraska, KFAB AM Radio, 1110.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Big one, yes, sir.
unidentified		Now, what got me excited was you asked your guest, I forgot his name already.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John Cogan.
unidentified		John, yeah.
unidentified		You asked him about the Mayan calendar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		And he mentioned that it started at a certain date.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he said it started with the hit of the asteroid.
unidentified		But they have also dates that precedes their history that go very far back in time.
		And I've got a book here by called Time and Reality and the Thought of the Maya by Miguel Leon Portilla.
		I don't know if he's familiar with that book, but it's in English.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what does it contend?
unidentified		Well, there's a thing they brought up that they didn't comment about.
		They computated dates on stellas in Quirigua, and they have dates that go back on two of them, on Stella F, the date is 91,683,390 years in the past.
		So I went to a used bookstore, and I looked at geology books and books about the evolution of the Earth.
		And that's about the time that the mammals started becoming dominant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		91 million years?
unidentified		Yeah.
		And then there's another date that I also looked up, and it's 7 AHU 3 Pop.
		It says some 400 million years before the erection of this monument.
		You know, the monument that the date was carved in.
		I looked that up, and that came real close to the date when creatures started coming out of the ocean and evolving on land.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, all right.
		Let's go to John now.
		John, does any of that make any sense to you?
		I mean, you're saying the Mayan calendar began when the asteroid hit.
		From your point of view, that's 10,500.
		He's talking millions of years, and that the Mayan calendar goes back millions of years.
unidentified		Yeah.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, Melvin, I compliment you on finding that book, and so on.
		I bet that's a good one.
		I have not run across that.
		I would say this.
		Starting the Mayan calendar really means that's the day of its, that you start a mathematical count forward, and you can also start a mathematical count backward.
		All calendars are that way, like the Gregorian calendar.
		We either have AD or B C. And Mayans have the same thing.
		And there are many other calendars.
		The Jewish calendar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		So in other words, you're saying, sure, you can do it.
		You can count forward or backward.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you can count forward or backward.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		But the D-Day for the Mayan calendar is the day the asteroid fell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
		All right.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with John Cogan.
		Hello.
		Hello?
		Hi.
		Turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		Oh, I'm sorry, sir.
		Thank you, Art.
		I'd like to ask John, what is more destructive to the planet overall, you know, animals and plant life?
		A mid-continental strike or a mid-ocean strike?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting question.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it would be a mid-ocean, probably without any doubt.
		The asteroid strike that we're talking about and where it hit was probably the most vulnerable part of the whole planet Earth because the North Atlantic Ocean sea bottom is just riddled with these fracture lines that go east and west across the mid-Atlantic Ridge.
		And then there's, of course, the ridge itself has a great fracture line all the way around the world that is north and south.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's very interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I heard a story not long ago from mainstream science about the mid-Atlantic area, that they were not ruling out the possibility of this horrible sudden slide that would produce tsunamis that would wipe out all the coasts.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure could.
		Yes, absolutely.
		And that's what happened here with the asteroid too.
		It caused tsunamis that were just massive all over the world.
		I conservatively put in the book a couple hundreds of feet high.
		I probably could have used the word thousands because they were huge, and they just wiped out everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the destructive power, should it hit land compared to sea, is not nearly so much, huh?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Sea would probably be the worst.
		And the crust of the earth is the thinnest there and the weakest there.
		It's only nine miles thick, whereas under the continents it averages 20 to 25 miles thick.
		So the continents are a lot more stable and can take a lot more punishment than the seafloor of the Atlantic Ocean or even the Pacific.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how deep is the ocean at approximately that latitude and longitude?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Let's just say it averages two miles deep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Two miles deep?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, about 10,000 feet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So a six-mile rock, it would penetrate right to the bottom.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'd go right through it.
		Except that this one hit at an angle of about 30 degrees, and that helped us.
		It moved the crust of the Earth, and it tilted the Earth a little bit because it's like a pool shot.
		You know, on a pool table, it was a tangent, a reflective shot.
		But had it hit at a 90-degree angle to the Earth, I just wouldn't even know what would happen.
		It would punch right through there, and it might even knock a chip of the Earth off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are those who speculate our moon was once part of the Earth.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		They think it was knocked off by a collision back in the very beginning of the planet when it was molten.
		And the moon was molten.
		Something hit it and knocked this piece off.
		And since it was molten, it turned round.
		It got its shape.
		And here we are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And here we are.
		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Cogan.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes.
		Hi.
		My name is Michael.
		I'm calling from Ajax, Ontario, via Mojo Radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I just want to ask just a couple of quick questions.
		And a statement real quick.
		My dad was a geologist, and he had a pastime hobby with topographical maps, and he kind of passed this on to me.
		And he noticed early on that a lot of the stuff that he was being told or that he was studying didn't quite match up.
		He passed it on to me, and I started studying a couple of guys, Graham Hancock and Stan Dale, and they seem to make a lot of sense.
		I was just wondering if you've actually looked into some of their studies and what they found, and I'll hang up and listen on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much.
		The work of Graham Hancock, for example.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		All right, I have read some of his books, not all.
		I understand he has a new one out, and a fellow that has got it and read it said it was really good.
		So I am looking forward to reading it.
		Yeah, I think those people have a lot to say.
		And it's very, you know, there's an awful lot of information there.
		A little hard to go through it all now.
		Won't try.
		But nevertheless, those are good books.
		And that's an example of the kind of thinking that should be done in academia and is not done there at all.
		And if you want to read...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you must ask yourself that all the time.
		I mean, they have a certain setway and belief, and they don't consider other things.
		Science is pretty stubborn, isn't it?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's horrible.
		And it's narrow.
		You can go through the anthropology department at any one of these big universities.
		Let's pick one that might have 40 professors.
		There's a few like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		And I'm telling you, what they don't know would fill encyclopedias because they just take such a narrow focus.
		We've been talking about this asteroid impact here this evening.
		You ask one of them about it.
		They wouldn't even know where to start.
		They couldn't tell you a thing.
		It would be like the dinosaur article I told you about.
		Well, it would throw a cloud of dust up into the air and probably stay there for two months.
		Well, it'll stay there for 2,000 years because it goes so high, there's no gravity.
		There's very little.
		And it takes forever for it to come down.
		But they don't know their physics, their geophysics.
		They can't tell you Newton's law of gravity.
		And that is what tells you that it won't come down.
		And also, for instance, the speed of the asteroid impact is all important.
		You can take a six-mile diameter asteroid, and if it hits the Earth at 10,000 miles an hour, that's one thing.
		If it hits the Earth at 40,000 miles an hour, that's another.
		But is it only four times as hard?
		No.
		Physics tells you that force of impact is force equals mass times velocity squared.
		And when you put that squared in there, that's velocity times itself.
		So it doesn't hit four times as hard.
		It hits about 20 times as hard.
		So speed is absolutely everything.
		Now, back to our academians.
		Do they know that?
		I bet they don't.
		And yet they write these articles for Science Magazine and everything else, and their ignorance of ships and boats, as Hyrd all points out, they don't know anything about ocean currents.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And why don't they?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, all of this would be, they'd have to examine it in writing up their theories of how things went.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, Art, the reality is, as I see it, they just don't.
		They confine themselves to really studying little stone artifacts, and they don't look at anything broader than that.
		The worst books I read in preparation for writing my book came from academia.
		The best books I read were outside of academia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's pretty sad.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Cogan.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
		Hello.
		Boy, Art, I've been listening to you for about 17 years over the radio, and I enjoy your story show so much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I'm calling from Gerber, California, Atlanta, KPAY in Northern California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I have a question for John.
		John, this meteor that hit before, do you think it's possible and probable that it's going to happen again?
		And one more quick question, then I'll hang up and listen off the air.
		They have a lot of industry over here, and do you think that that's going to change the global warming in this area and affect the rivers in this area?
		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you're welcome.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
		Oh, yeah, we're going to get hit again.
		It's just a question of when and how big that asteroid is going to be.
		And industry, yes, unfortunately, we need it for our way of life, but yes, it does affect global warming.
		As Hart and I were talking before, I think that man's contribution is rather small by comparison to nature's, but nevertheless, every bit hurts.
		And yeah, we've got to do all we can to stop it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's keep mining the public field.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with John Cogan.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi, Ort.
		Hi.
		Hi, this is Tom.
		I'm calling from Benavia, Texas.
		Yes, sir.
		Two things.
		Is John saying that the reason the snakes was covered was because of this comet that hit?
		Or what I also would like to ask, what does he think about those scientists, archaeologists who have found artifacts and bones of people that date back 300,000 years?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think he argues with that, do you, John?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Not really.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		What was the first one?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the first thing he asked about was the Sphinx.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, there are a lot of people talking about the water damage on the Sphinx.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, isn't that something?
		You know, I mentioned that, and that comes from Graham Hancock and Buval and others that noticed that, and John Henry West, so on.
		I think they've really got something there.
		That Sphinx must be pretty old.
		It probably predates 10.5.
		It's probably into the first civilization, but even then you've got a question, because remember how the Sahara was drying up during that time?
		It wasn't getting much rain then.
		In my book, I went out on a limb about the only time in the whole book.
		The rest of it's pretty conservative.
		But I said that I thought that maybe it was the asteroid impact that did the damage.
		In other words, that enormous amount of rain, all that stuff that we were talking about, Art, that went up and came down, well, it would be the equivalent of 500 feet of rain coming down pretty fast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would be like the story, the NOAA story, right?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and it would certainly erode the Sphinx, you know.
		So I had a feeling that maybe the asteroid, and they didn't factor that in because they weren't aware of it.
		They hadn't read my book.
		I think I'm going to have to give them one, Art.
		And then they can throw that into their theories and see if they think that that's where the weathering could have come from.
		I think that's very likely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, your book is The New Order of Man's History.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long has it been out?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's been out about six months.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Six months?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		I'd say so.
		Not very long.
		It's been probably not on the shelf of most bookstores.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How about Amazon?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		It's on Amazon.
		You can get it through Amazon, or you can get it through any bookstore by simply asking for it, and they'll order it for you, and it's with distributors.
		They'd have it for you in a day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so it's available then generally?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		It's available generally, and pretty soon it will be on the shelf.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think the people we're discussing tonight will go out and buy one, or you'll have to send it for free?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, those guys, I'd probably have to send it for free, I think.
		But that's all right.
		I wouldn't mind it.
		Maybe they'd return the favor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you had any feedback from any geologists or any universities or anybody of substance?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or do they just ignore you?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		You just said it.
		That's what they do.
		That's the way they win all their battles.
		They have academia sewed up tight, and basically they just ignore everybody else, and they get their government paychecks, you know, and everybody else has to put their own bills.
		And so they really have the world by the tail.
		And if they just ignore people, they win, and they go away.
		So the only hope we have is to get some exposure, as you're doing for me, Art.
		I certainly appreciate that, you see, because it helps get the word out that there's an alternative theory.
		And then hopefully, the students will come to the rescue of knowledge and will say, I don't believe this stuff anymore.
		I've read Gogan's book and I've read other books and I believe that.
		And then all of a sudden, it's going to be like night and day.
		There isn't any way to put these together too readily.
		You've got to grab one theory or the other because they're quite far apart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, knowing as entrenched as they are, from a real, honest, practical point of view, do you expect that to happen?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes, uh-huh.
		But it will take a long time.
		These people just have to simply die off, retire, and disappear.
		That's the only way we'll ever get rid of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but don't you think they're picking their own replacements as they go?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they sure are.
		They sure are.
		But that's been the history of science all along.
		It's been that way, and a few wild young ones come up, and the next thing you know, you're kind of getting a different tack.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So to get a new paradigm, you've got to have the old one die.
unidentified		that's about it Absolutely nothing.
		Uh-huh.
		What?
		Yeah.
		What is it good for?
		Absolutely nothing.
		Now, you see, that may not be strictly true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It may be good for some things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Population reduction?
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 8th, 2002.
		Won't be a dead, and I'll become mother.
		When I found out the plane, and you said I'd walk to God, you're what it is.
		Absolutely.
		Lock it.
		And again.
		Whoa.
		Whoa.
		She's got something that moves my soul, and she knows I'd love to love her.
		But she lets me down every time and make her mind.
		She's no one loving tonight with me.
		She'll be so inviting.
		I want her all for myself.
		Oh, temptation eyes.
		Looking through my mind, my mind.
		Oh, temptation eyes.
		You've got to love me.
		You've got to love me tonight.
		You've got to love me, baby, yeah.
		You've got to love me.
		Oh, while I do search, it's just a game.
		But just the same, my head is spinning.
		She's got a way to keep me on her side.
		It's just a ride.
		You're listening to our bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an ongoing presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 8th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're talking about what hit Earth, according to John Kogan, 10,500 years ago, dead smack in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
		And the results were virtually the extinction of everything, or the near extinction of everything man just barely squeaked through, he says, to become what we are now in 10,500 years.
		We'll get right back to it.
unidentified		We'll get right back to it.
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		You're listening to Arc Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 8, 2002.
		Coast to Coast AM Once again, here's John Kogan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You understand, don't you, John, that a lot of people are going to have some doubt about what you're saying.
		And of course, it's academia.
		I mean, they've been pounding that into our heads, how it all has happened all our lives, right?
		Yes.
		So what you're saying isn't going to come easily to a lot of people.
		No.
		All right.
		Well, then, here are some of them.
		First time call our line, you're on the air with John Kogan.
unidentified		Hi, good evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, good evening.
		Sorry.
		You're the gentleman who fast blasted me and said he's out to launch, basically?
unidentified		Well, I mean, I've looked at the supposed impact structure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You did say, give me in that fast blast, you said, give me a crater, and I might believe you.
unidentified		Yes, and I mean, if it was an impact or the size of the one that hit Chick Shaloop 64.51 million years ago, you're looking at possibly a 20-kilometer crater deep and a 120-kilometer transient crater.
		And there's nothing of that size, definitely nothing that deep.
		I mean, the average ocean depth there is about 5,000 meters.
		And you definitely won't have seafloor sediment that would cover up a crater that size.
		Also, I really can't believe that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, of course, he is saying it came in at an angle.
unidentified		Well, again, the Shikshalube impactor supposedly came in at a 30-degree oblique angle also.
		And if you look at the impact structure, you can definitely see where the ballistic debris shot away from the actual asteroid impact.
		And that's debris that wouldn't have made it up in the atmosphere.
		Yeah, but what about if it's water?
		Well, that'll probably have a definite effect.
		But then you'd see tsunami debris, which you definitely see in the Shikshalub impact structure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, then let's ask specifically about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tsunami debris, John.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Let's see, now, he's saying that you should see that some hurt.
unidentified		Well, yeah, you saw it in, again, in North America from the Shikshalub impact structure.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		What did you see?
unidentified		Well, I didn't see anything, obviously.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, but I mean, what was the was there debris somewhere that you're seeing?
unidentified		There was debris fields in North America, some, I believe, 500 to 600 miles away from the actual impact site.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, it would be there, for sure.
		As far as I know, now that crater is quite large, and it's circular, which indicates that the boloid was coming straight down, more or less.
		It wasn't at an angle, whereas this one was.
		And I don't know your measurements, but actually the crater out there in the ocean is very large.
		It's 70 miles wide.
		That's mild.
unidentified		Well again, an impact of again the size you're talking, some six miles, traveling at thousands of miles would again create a crater like over well again if it was like Shikshaloo, you're looking at like some 180 kilometer crater.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		You divide that by six tenths of that and you've got miles and so you're talking about a hundred miles crater.
		And the crater that is on the bathymetric maps out there in the Atlantic is almost that.
		And it is 24,000 feet deep.
unidentified		Well, not according to the seaport topography maps that I have from National Geographic.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Well man, on mine it's clear as a bell that it's there.
unidentified		Obviously have something different.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah it must have.
		And it's just an isolated hole.
		Only it's in two parts now, like a cantaloupe cut in half.
		And I wonder if we're looking at the same thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do too.
unidentified		Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, that's why I specifically asked for, you know, where's the crater in?
unidentified		Yeah.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, and remember now, you've got the clue to it up in Charleston, South Carolina, where, you see, it had a crust, and the crust was boulders.
		And as it heated up, the heat caused it to fracture.
		And the boulders came off, leaving the core, which was nickel-iron, and it smacked the ocean, but the boulders slowed down as they fell off of the asteroid.
unidentified		Another question.
		You keep on saying an asteroid.
		Have you seen any kind of iridium spike in any of the seafloor sediment samples or any of the cores from the ice?
		No.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		No, that's true.
		Now, you did find that in the 65-year-old-year-old crater that you're talking about.
		There was iridium.
unidentified		It was a 248-million-year-old crater.
unidentified		They've found iridium deposits in, I believe it's Japan and China.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well then how do you account for the lack of those deposits?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Not all objects have iridium.
		And also, I'm not sure what happens when it goes down in the ocean, such as this did, and probably punched all the way through into the mantle.
		Probably it took the iridium with it.
unidentified		Well, I mean, the iridium would be blasted out.
		I mean, the comet vaporizes.
		Yeah, but mushrooms.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		It does vaporize, but if it vaporizes, you know, nine miles into the Earth, that's another story.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know how you pronounce your crater there, the one in Yucatan.
unidentified		Yeah.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		It hit the platform of the continent, you know.
		That's quite different.
		It didn't disappear into the ocean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, it is true.
		Caller, take a more careful look at 24 degrees north latitude, 61 west longitude.
		See if you see it.
		Then look at South Carolina and get back to us on that, too.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with John Cogan.
unidentified		Hi.
		Thanks, sir, for taking my call.
		I recently on KIDO 630 a.m. in Boise, Idaho.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boise, of course.
unidentified		Just got a couple of questions.
		When you were talking about the area surrounding the crater being riddled with cracks, John, I get this picture, and this may be way off, but I get a picture of like if you were to throw a rock into a windshield of a car, it doesn't actually go through.
		It makes basically a crater, and cracks branch out from that.
		But what would happen if, once you've damaged that surface, such as the crust of the Earth, if another asteroid were to impact the Earth, what would be the possibility of it breaking all the way through and because of the weakened state due to cracks from previous impacts, the Earth just kind of blowing apart?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's very true.
		And actually, the general opinion is that the fracture lines that you see all through the ocean floor there were created by plate tectonics and the stretching of the Earth's crust.
		And it's really, quite frankly, they're really not well understood at all, but they're there.
		And they're the weak part of the crust.
		They're like scars, you might say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I can sort of see what the colour is saying, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like when you get a rock that hits your windshield, you get these radiated cracks.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		These cracks were there before this asteroid hit, however.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		They come from the Earth itself and not from a prior impact or anything like that.
unidentified		Okay.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		But his point is well taken that when you hit a cracked windshield, the chances that it's going to really fly apart is a lot greater than a solid windshield.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, Colin.
unidentified		Thank you.
unidentified		Take care.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Cogan.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello, Mr. Bell.
		Yes.
		First of all, I'd like to congratulate you on your radio station, your show.
		Thank you.
		It covers topics that no one else does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it does.
unidentified		Your website, I go to daily.
unidentified		I go to CNN, I go to your website, and it gives me wonderful things to look up every day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very good.
unidentified		I have a couple questions for Mr. Kogan.
		The first being, for those of your listeners who do not have a globe or a map to lay out the longitude and latitude of that strike, you mentioned South Carolina, you mention Alaska and an angular strike.
		Can you give us a location in relation to the mid-Atlantic ridge, in relation to the equator?
		Was it east or west of the ridge?
		Where was this in the Atlantic?
		You say in the middle, it's elongated.
		The middle would be the equator.
		I don't think that's probably a right assumption.
		No, it let's see.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a little hard to describe.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, if you have one of those darn flat maps, very difficult to draw the line of the asteroid's course.
unidentified		Well, Mr. Bell will be able to tell you that's one of the difficulties of radio, trying to paint the picture with words.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		If you have a globe, it's a lot easier.
		And you can see that the line would come just south of Alaska across Charleston, South Carolina, and then hit out in the ocean where you'll see North America?
unidentified		Is it closer to Europe?
unidentified		Is it?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		No, it's really just kind of off.
		Let's just say it's east of Cuba.
		And it goes out into the ocean about a third of the way toward the far side.
unidentified		Well, given that and the size of the incoming object, you would think a good thump on the mid-Atlantic floor, and that would account for Cuba sinking as well as many other islands subsiding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And possibly even what was called Atlantis.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		Well, is there any deflection downward in the mid-Atlantic Ridge as you follow it north to south?
		Does that subside in relation to it?
		That would be something I'm very curious about.
		Mid-Atlantic Ridge is kind of like a spine of the Earth, much like the Rockies down through the Andes.
		It is kind of like that, yeah.
		Major meteor impact would show in the ridge height, wouldn't it?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it does.
		And it does seem like there is a gradient from the up by the North Pole down toward where this impact occurred.
		And the ocean gets deeper as you come down, indicating that there was more volcanism down there that took more of the magma up into the air.
		And that that is why there is a sinking of the ocean floor in that direction.
		And you're right.
		And yes, there's all sorts of evidence that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge sunk in this area of North Africa, up by Europe, and so on and so forth, up to the amount of about 10,000 feet or two miles.
		And there is thought that the Azores island is Atlantis, that the Azores area of the mid-Atlantic ridge is Atlanta.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is what's left sticking up?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they're still sticking up there, nine peaks, I guess.
		And actually, they go down to a plateau.
		And this plateau is sitting down there now 10,000 feet under the surface of the Atlantic.
		But the question is, was that plateau inhabited?
		And is that the memory of an island that sunk out there in the Atlantic?
		And was that the one that Plato refers to, for instance, 10,000?
		He's got the date right.
		Plato's story has two things that are correct.
		He gives a date for the sinking, and that jibes with 10.5, and the ice score, for instance.
		And he also gets the location right out there, that it is out just past Gibraltar.
		And so he gets everything right, and he says that from Atlantis they could sail to the other side, and that clues in the Americas.
		So there's a lot to be said for Plato's story being true, but it isn't just a fantasy thing.
		It would just refer to an inhabited part of the ridge before it sunk.
		And it's quite, you know, it's really worth thinking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Cogan.
		Hi.
		Yeah, hi.
unidentified		This is Robert in Northern California, I guess.
		Well, Northern Bay Area.
		I guess I'm listening to Seattle on 1188 on my CC radio with my son Gene.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Seattle would be 1,000.
unidentified		I got 1188 on my CC.
		But God bless Coast to Coast and God bless Seacrane for all the incredible stuff they have, including their spread spectrums.
		Listen, I cruised across there in 1976 on a 42-foot twin diesel Grand Banks 42 actually.
		And we had the radar and everything, so I was able to see the coastline.
		And we went from St. Thomas to Curaçao, Venezuela, instead of Jamaica, because we have a thousand-mile range.
		Anyway, I can definitely see that, but the reason I called, I'm totally jazzed when I got through.
		On TLC or Discovery, I saw a listen to a documentary of a gentleman that had a theory about the great flood and the ripping apart of the crust, and I think it was triggered by an asteroid.
		That it ripped literally all the way around the planet and that we had so much subterranean water plus high oceans that it blew into the beyond the atmosphere into outer space and has come back as identifiable DNA samples of microbes that originated only on the Earth and in meteorites.
		And it was such an outlandish, far-flung theory that it blew me away.
		It's so similar to yours, and it could be actually connected in a cyclical means.
		I just wondered if you heard anything about that, John.
		I'm sorry, I didn't write down the name, but it was quite recently.
		Thank you.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Robert, I must say I really haven't.
		I don't know.
		I missed the program, I guess, and I just can't say I did.
		Mook, the fellow who I mentioned, wrote in 1965, and I think it was translated into English.
		He wrote in German.
		It was translated about the early 70s, 75 or so.
		So that would be too old.
		You wouldn't be referring to him, and he didn't say anything like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about this theory, John, that most of the large rocks that would possibly do the kind of damage we're talking about, you say was done 10,500 years ago.
		Most of those, I mean, a lot of time has passed since creation, and the ones that are going to hit, for the most part, have hit.
		So the odds of getting hit by something big are much lower because most of it's gone.
		In other words, most of those that would hit or would be in orbits that might hit already hit over the millions of years closer to creation than now.
		What about that?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That would be very true.
		Yes.
		The planet was originally built.
		The solar system is only 5 billion years old.
		It's a recycled star.
		And so actually our solar system of the sun and nine planets was built by those planets sweeping up the debris in the area of their orbit.
		And so early on there was all sorts of impacts.
		And planet Earth had no life on it at all for the first four billion years.
		Life only appeared the last one billion years.
		And earlier times was just one impact after another.
		So it's been slowing down tremendously.
		That's led to this theory of uniformitism and so on and the academians not being willing to believe that we could get hit by an asteroid and so on and so forth because we tend to measure everything by our own little infinitesimal lifespan.
		But you are absolutely right.
		The rate or the incidence of impact has slowed down to crawl as far as we're concerned as opposed to what it was once upon a time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in Vietnam, our pilots called it the golden BB.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Is that right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		That was some farmer out in the middle of a rice field, as you passed over, taking a shot with his rifle and just having one lucky right-on shot.
		So that could still happen to us, right?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It isn't the golden BB.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Arc Bell Somewhere in Time on Premiere Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 8, 2002.
		Coast to Coast AM from July 8, 2002.
		You wanna see the loser that you know don't come easy.
		You don't have to doubt all these about you can't even play them easily about the past and all your stuff.
		I love you.
		It will do your tomorrow I don't ask for much, I only want to let you know No I don't ask for much, I only want to let you know
		All of us feel the sound.
		You just don't feel the rain.
		But do the wind, the sun, and the rain We can be like day out Come on baby Come on baby Baby take my hand Come on We'll be able to fly Come on Baby I'm your man La la la la la La la la la la
		La la la la You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 8th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
		There's always a time in just about every show where this song fits.
		This is probably about that time.
		Not much you can do about it anyway.
		No point in hearing it, right?
unidentified		Romeo and Julia are together in a day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wilgen, Rackridge, John Cogan.
unidentified		Rackridge, John Cogan.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of July 8, 2002 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think it does us all good to be exposed to different ideas, different than the mainstream, which hasn't been all that correct all that much and tends to frequently revise its opinions when presented with absolutely staggeringly impossible to ignore evidence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder how long it will take for your theory to build to that point, John.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Boy, all right.
		I almost am cocky enough to say that I think the proof of the asteroid impact is there.
		And then, of course, we have to take on the fact of was there a prior civilization that it did destroy?
		And then do we see man coming back and so on?
		Those are kind of secondary questions to the asteroid impact.
		Once you accept that, you can make sense out of all of these disparate facts that otherwise just swirl around like smoke.
		And there's no sense.
		Like what killed a woolly mammoth?
		There's a big killing field in Columbia of mastodons, millions of them.
		They're ripped apart.
unidentified		Things like that.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Make no sense.
		These four civilizations that pop up like mushrooms make no sense unless you have the key to the whole thing, which is the asteroid impact.
		And so I think the asteroid impact is there and it just needs to get out and be accepted.
		And I think really it's very close.
		And some more support would be greatly appreciated, you know, from say someone in academia who might see the light.
		And something like that would really help.
		But I think it's there.
		And then the other will fall into place a little later and as more evidence is presented.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Back to the phones we go.
		You're on the air with John Cogan.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, sir.
unidentified		And good morning to your guest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, this is John Cogan.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Calling from Boulder City, not the one in Colorado, the one a whole lot closer to Art there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was a warm day, wasn't it?
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
		I tried to get out here on this lake, but the boat's not right.
		Didn't have anybody to take me.
		Anyhow, I want to make a comment first that I'm totally blind, and Art will cue in on why in a minute.
		A shadow person that I speak to occasionally who deals with other blind people tells me that the guest is a little off on the timing, that it's more like 10,800 years, and I wish I had somebody here to look at a map,
		but if either of you gentlemen have a map, there's supposed to be a small island in the Bahamas referred to as Little San Salvador, not to be confused with the country I'm told, San Salvador.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're basing all this on what a shadow person told you?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		And an island called High Key, or Hybron Key, that there are also pieces of this asteroid, and I called it a comet and got corrected.
		So I guess there's a difference between the two that would have evidence available or fragments available of the asteroid that your guest speaks of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I appreciate the call.
unidentified		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you want to give us the distinction between a comet and an asteroid?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Are you talking about YART?
unidentified		Yes, I am.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
		A comet, as a rule, is a lighter type of thing.
		Halley's comet and so on.
		Sometimes they call it frozen ice and things like that.
		It's a different animal than an asteroid, which is a solid rock.
		And even rock is kind of a wrong word.
		Sometimes that's a nickel-iron object.
		In fact, they're fabulously valuable.
		If one could just grab one, you'd have metal that would be just worth millions of dollars, some of them.
		And so they are a little different in their nature, frozen ice versus a nickel-iron core.
		But they're just objects that sail around.
		And I don't know how one gets made versus another.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what would be the difference in a six-mile-wide hunk of nickel or iron and a six-mile-wide comet, ice?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, I just suppose it's a matter of mass and density, and probably the comet would not do as much harm when it smacked the Earth.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		But that's all I can say, Art.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with John Cogan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I decided, or I called in to make a comment about the analogy you made about the rocks impacting the windshield.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		One thing that you never took into account was the fact that a windshield doesn't have a gravitational force holding it together like the Earth does.
		And in order for a comet to impact the Earth hard enough to blow it apart, that comet would have to have more force than the gravitational pull of the Earth.
		Which would be pretty well next to impossible.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it would I think what the gentleman's saying is that boy, it'd have to be a tremendous force to chip off a piece of the Earth or something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because that's not exactly what you're suggesting occurred.
		You're suggesting this thing crashed into the sea, which is quite likely.
		Anybody would have to admit, as you point out, two-thirds of the Earth is water, so it's going to more likely hit water than it is land.
		Two out of three, right?
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, makes sense to me.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Kogan.
		Hello.
unidentified		This is me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's you.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Art!
unidentified		Yes.
		God, how I love you.
		Thank you.
		This is Craig in D.C. Yes, sir.
		And I wish, wish, wish that you were on in drive time in the morning or midday or afternoon or evening, something other than this crazy hour that you're on right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is the only time you're allowed to talk about stuff like this.
unidentified		Well, I guess I understand.
unidentified		Art, if you don't mind, can I ask three semi-rhetorical questions and then get your answers afterwards?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go try it.
unidentified		Okay, number one.
		How do we know for sure, despite seeing pictures from space and being told by others, that we live on planet Earth?
		How do we know that for certain?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, okay.
unidentified		Number two, how do we know for certain that this existence that we all reside in is actually being alive?
unidentified		You know what I'm saying?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
unidentified		And number three, this would be my kind of big one, considering this six-mile-wide asteroid and thinking about what we assume we know about consciousness and the afterlife.
		Let's say a six-mile-wide asteroid slammed into planet Earth and hundreds of thousands and millions of people died all at once.
		Yes.
		Would all of those individual souls, who all crossed at the same time, notice any difference?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		Thank you for all of that, but there's no answer to any of it.
		We only know what the physical science tells us about where we are with relation to everything else here on Earth.
		And how do we know that we're not in a matrix we don't, is the answer to that.
		And John, you want to take number three?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		If it killed millions of people, and then what was the question at the end of that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, something about would anybody notice all those souls disappearing at once or gravitating to wherever souls go when you die.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Totally out of your field.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it really is, Art.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Sorry to say that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But we want an answer anyway, John.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where the hell would all those souls go?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know, Art.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		I think they just vaporized myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okie-dokie.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		More or less, I guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on there with John Kogan.
unidentified		Hello, gentlemen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
unidentified		I have a question for John, but real quick, I wanted to ask you, Art, if you'd heard anything about the story about the ravens in Ottawa, Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ravens in Ottawa.
		I've been hearing a lot of bird stories lately.
		What's going on with the ravens?
unidentified		Well, this kind of fits in.
		It's a lot of weird things going on on the planet.
		But apparently, I heard this today, like 30,000 crows have descended on the city of Ottawa, Canada.
		And apparently, there's so many, it's blackening the sky there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there some reason why Ottawa needs to eat crow?
unidentified		I have no idea.
unidentified		And apparently, the crows are trapping people in their homes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that's right out of Alfred H.C.O. Well, this is what I heard today.
unidentified		And I don't know if anybody else has heard it, but I thought it would be great for your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, wouldn't that be a really big story if it was true?
		I mean, if Ottawa's a big city, right?
		I mean, if crows were locking people in their homes, and that would be a big story.
		Where did you hear that?
unidentified		Well, a friend of mine told me today.
unidentified		I just heard it today, and I thought I'd be great for your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That came from a friend of yours.
		Yeah.
		A real physical friend or a shadow person?
unidentified		No, this is a friend of mine.
unidentified		He is a pagan, but.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate the call, and I don't know what to tell you.
		We'll listen.
		Ottawa, is it true?
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Hello.
unidentified		Brad from Omaha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And question for John is, well, two questions.
		How advanced were the people before they were set back or wiped out?
		And if they were, somewhat advanced, maybe even to maybe what we were 200 years ago, could they have seen this asteroid coming and made preparations for kind of a little note to whoever comes after them?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, but they didn't because we got smaller and stupider.
		But, you know, he asks a good question about the relative point to which they had advanced.
		John?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		I think I could give him a good answer to that.
		It would seem that they were exactly equal with Egypt at its prime.
		And that was shortly after the Egyptian civilization first appeared.
		And also exactly equal with Sumer, which is Tigris Euphrates over there.
		And then also exactly equal with Central America when it was seen by Cortez.
		That was basically the prime of the Aztec civilization.
		And those reflect the first civilization.
		They're almost the first civilization all over again.
		Almost in the same places, doing the same things, looking exactly alike.
		That's where we were.
		And that's where it was, and then it was blasted.
		5,000 years later, it comes back, and it's the same thing all over again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we've been allowed to progress all that much farther because there's not as many rocks out there, right?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a good way to put it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that doesn't mean that that progression will continue.
		No.
		And even though there's going to be a longer time between mass extinctions, which is really what we're talking about here, we're still up, as it were.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Wildcard Line, you're on the air with John Kogan.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Gabriel in LA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Gabriel.
unidentified		Stan Deo has an excellent theory about Atlantis.
		He says that Plato, when he talks about the twin peaks of Hercules, he says it's the twin peaks of Lebanon, not the Rock of Gibraltar.
		And he says that ocean that you could get to from Atlantis would be the Indian Ocean.
		He says that Atlantis was actually Saudi Arabia.
		And he said that Plato talked about it being after this flood or whatever, it all became mud and became impassable and you couldn't get to the ocean.
		Well, underneath the sands of Saudi Arabia is mud.
		And also they found petrified trees in Saudi Arabia which would show that it was fertile and guess where all that oil could have come from.
		You know, he says it's the dead animals and chlorophyll and all this stuff that was just crushed in the flood.
		And he said just a number of things.
		He also pointed out that Plato said that there was tons of elephants in Atlantis and you have these elephants in Africa and you have them in Siberia and that's right in between them, you know, Saudi Arabia.
		So there's a lot of interesting points that he brought up about Atlantis being Saudi Arabia.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you all.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		I'll have to read that book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, a night for theories.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the owner of John Cogan.
		Hello.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
unidentified		Hi, Darren.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off.
unidentified		I'm sorry, I'm shutting the door.
		I'm shutting the door.
		Weird question for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, go.
unidentified		Can I work for you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nobody works for me, sir.
unidentified		I'm not doing it for pay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nobody works for me.
unidentified		Can I help you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, only by asking a question of my guest.
unidentified		Nope, I'm serious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am too.
unidentified		This goes beyond that.
		Let me be a correspondent.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		any part of the inner circle of a year I thought I'd have to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At least leave a star that we could all recognize.
unidentified		Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, I've got to go.
		Bye.
		Yeah, bye.
		West of the Rockies, you are on the air with John Cogan.
		Good morning.
		Whoops.
		Sorry about that.
		First time caller line.
		You're on the air with John Cogan.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yes, I had a question.
		I'm in a truck on a cell phone.
		You probably know that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can hear a truck, yes.
unidentified		Okay.
		Right now I'm in Utah, but I had a question.
		I don't know if it helps back up this theory or not on this asteroid.
		And after I ask it, I'll hang up and listen on the radio.
		Is there any connection between that and why there seems to be a pattern to the geographical layout of different continents, why the southeast sections are always swampy, and you've got the desert and higher elevation in the Rocky Mountains on the western part of all the different continents.
		Seems like there's a specific pattern there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		The lady's right.
		But really, it isn't related to the asteroid.
		It's plate tectonics.
		There's about 12 big plates of the crust of the Earth that cover the Earth.
		And those plates move around.
		And one goes under another one.
		That's called subduction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not really all that far away from mainstream geology and evolution and a lot of mainstream everything, except for in this one area.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		I think you're right, Art.
		And that's deliberate.
		I don't want to get out there and left field and have a bunch of crazy ideas.
		I try to hold it right to the facts, you know, and not to spread out.
		And so in a sense, I'm very conservative.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with John Cogan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello there.
		Hello.
		Hello.
		Yeah, is this the Art Bell Show?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, go ahead, sir.
unidentified		Yes, I need to ask Mr. Cogan a couple of questions, and then I'll get off.
		All right.
		Art, you're doing a great job to start with.
		And Mr. Cogan, I did some biblical studies for about three and a half years, and I did some studies into plankton.
		And is it not true that plankton gives off a vapor that seizes the clouds?
		And also, according to the scriptures, you know, during the time of Noah, there was no water coming from the sky.
		They had had a hairy cross on the ground, so that would go along with what you were talking about the Ice Age being about that time.
		But what happened before then to cause no water to come from the sky?
		And if you were to drop an asteroid in the northwest, say off the northwest coast, up in that area somewhere, and it caused a mushroom cloud, where would you drop it to cause everything to come apart like a puzzle?
		Thanks, Art.
		I appreciate it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, John?
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I believe he means where can we really smack the Earth?
		And the answer is just about exactly what happened.
		We couldn't hardly improve on that because the asteroid hit right in the weak part of the Atlantic Ocean and opened up all the fraction lines and caused water to go up there.
		And man, it was a lot of water.
		So the scriptural, the story of Noah and so on is not too far-fetched.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, he was talking also about plankton early in the call.
unidentified		Plankton.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Seeding clouds.
		Plankton seeding clouds.
		I don't know.
		Plankton certainly is in the ocean.
		I don't know that it seeds clouds.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I suppose a lot of the sea bottom was carried up as well.
		And maybe that's where the gentleman is getting the word plankton.
		For instance, the Loast Belt that goes through the Ukraine, that's the richest soil in the world.
		That fell out of the Great Death Cloud.
		And the reason it's so rich is it's volcanic ash mixed with seafloor sediments, which have a lot of calcium in them from seashells and so on that accumulated over millions and millions of years.
		And it was heated so much that the seashells became quick lime.
		And so the soil has so much lime and trace elements and so on in it that you can plant great crops in the Ukraine.
		You don't even have to use the fertilizer.
		So maybe that's the idea of plankton because it would be a fertilizer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
		John, we're out of time.
		I want to give your book one more plug.
		The New Order of Man's History is the name of your book, and you can get it by going to my website, folks, linking over to Amazon.com, or ordering it from your local bookstore.
		I wish you all the luck in the world, John, with your book and your theory.
		And it doesn't seem at all implausible.
		It seems absolutely as plausible as anything else mainstream science tells us day to day.
		Thank you, John.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And good night.
john cogan ▲ ● ▼		Good night to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you have it, folks, from the high desert, the high, hot desert, where it was 113 yesterday.
		We've got hotter temps to look forward to today.
		I'm Art Bell.

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