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July 5, 2002 - Art Bell

02:26:50

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Father Ernetti's Chronovisor - John Chambers

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01:13:26

john chambers

20:48

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I mean Grays.
		Good morning, everybody.
		I'm Mark Bell, and this is a program called Coast to Coast AM and well beyond actually all the time zones in the world because that's where we're great to be here.
		It's a Friday night, Saturday morning.
		We're gonna loosen up a little bit, and boy, are we gonna have fun tonight?
		It's all gonna be about time travel.
		The majority of it is going to be open line, but I do have a guest to start to set things up something I've been searching for and tell you all about them in a moment.
		But right now, I want to say I hope your 4th was a good one here in Brun, Nevada.
		Our 4th of July was we put on for you know we're just little town in the desert here, but the fireworks display we put on was the best one I've ever seen.
		I've seen some really big city fireworks displays, but this one, ha ha ha ha ha!
		Baby, let me tell you, the town of Front Valley Fire Rescue Service, Sam Valley International Fireworks, From Valley Times, our newspaper here, those guys productions, John, Mr. Pyrotechnics, O'Brien, and of course KNYE Radio 95.1 here in Valley.
		We choreographed the whole thing in music, in computer timed, to the fireworks going off, and it was totally, totally awesome.
		So thank you all.
		Now, to move on from there and the news, yesterday, as most of you, I'm sure, early in the day, I was riveted to the television.
		I was like tied at the hip to CNN as it all went on down at LAX.
		The Egyptian immigrant who gunned down two people at Israel's LL ticket counter went to the LA airport intending to kill, according to the FBI, today.
		Quote, it appears he went there with the intention of killing.
		Why he did that is what we're still trying to determine.
		End quote, that's FBI agent Richard Garcia.
		He was the main guy there who did the.
		Oh, yeah, let me mention the news conference.
		The news conference.
		When this event occurred, nothing was known for the longest time.
		And then even when they had a news conference, still there was nothing known.
		I found myself sitting there saying, why are you holding a news conference?
		Well, I'm sorry, I can't comment on that, or we can't talk about that, or the investigation's ongoing.
		And so they had this news conference to say nothing.
		Now, the U.S. has been spinning this as an isolated event.
		Well, it was an Arab man, we now know.
		And the Israelis have been saying, oh, no, this was terrorism.
		And I tend to agree with the Israelis.
		You might want to, I suppose you could say it was an isolated event of terrorism.
		But boy, talk about spin.
		I don't know about the rest of you, but those who followed it on the television with the news, supposed news conferences, the no-comment conferences is what I call them, we spun a holy, you know, what out of that.
		And I think that we did it for a good cause.
		I think we did it because if they had said the T word, the markets would have dropped Friday.
		Instead, they went zooming up 300 plus points.
		Incredible, huh?
		Or, yeah, on Friday during the day.
		300 plus points up in the DAO.
		Incredible.
		So we didn't want to say the T word.
		That's my gut feeling.
		Now, I could be all out to launch on this, and it could be, you know, maybe he was some sort of employee previously or something like that.
		But Arab man, LL, ticket counter, random violence, terrorism, as far as I'm concerned.
		Isolated perhaps terrorism, but terrorism nevertheless.
		It's just interesting, I think, watching our government spin that, just spin and spin and spin.
		It was an amazing thing to watch.
		With heavy rain falling once again, surging floodwaters ripped houses right off their foundations today, pushed up against dams already getting ready to break, trying to hold back swollen rivers across central South Texas.
		Hundreds of people have fled their homes now, joining more than 4,000 who have been forced out by high water in the past week.
		The Medina River jumped its banks today near Bandera, a community battered by days of flooding now.
		And you wonder why I don't toy around with mass thought about the weather.
		I just don't do that.
		There's something really wrong with the weather.
		We're not getting the weather we should be having at this kind of year, and Texas obviously is getting the kind of weather they should not be having.
		As I mentioned a moment ago, Wall Street went nuts.
		324.53 ups to 90 ups.
		324.53 up to 93.79.50.
		Pretty good, I would say.
		And as a matter of fact, 68.9 points on the NASDAQ, which was probably wanting to go up very badly by now, ending at 1448.
		Now, also on the 4th of July, the plane that crashed into the celebrating crowd at a suburban LA park had trouble deploying its landing gear about a month ago, we now find out.
		According to the co-pilot, they had a decent scare, said Greg Alder, whose 49-year-old father, Michael, was the co-pilot of the plane.
		The older Alder, 49, pilot Michael Brandt, 44 both of Glendora, died when the Cessna 310 crashed on the shore of a reservoir at a regional park in suburban Sandimas.
		Two children on the ground, of course, also killed.
	I'm sure you're aware of all this news.
	Here's one more, actually, a couple of more little items that I want to get out to you.
	One, this story comes to us from Drudge, and good old Matt Drudge, boy, I'll tell you, Drudge can get him.
	From Moscow, Dateline, Moscow Associated Press, Russian space officials proposed an ambitious project on Friday.
	Get this, folks.
	Are you ready to send a six-person team to Mars by the year 2015?
	A trip that would mark a milestone in space travel and international space cooperation.
	Russia's space program hopes to work closely with the American agency NASA and the European Space Agency to build two spaceships capable of transporting the crew to Mars, supporting them on the planet for up to two months, and then safely bringing them home.
	The roughly 440-day trip is expected to cost about $20 billion, with Russia suggesting it will contribute 30% of that amount.
	Can you imagine that?
	The Russians are so broke.
	30%?
	Wow.
	It must be an international project, the spokesman said.
	No one country could possibly cope with the task alone.
	Russian space officials said they are receiving, quote, encouraging signs of interest from NASA and other European counterparts.
unidentified		Hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But NASA spokeswoman Dolores Beasley said Friday the Russians have not submitted any formal plan and that the agency would not comment on the proposed trip before that point because of demands from Congress to scale back costs.
		Human travel to Mars has not been on NASA's radar recently.
		We are still very, very far away, conceded the head of the European Space Agency's permanent mission to Russia.
		But this kind of program is a long-term initiative for every space agency in the world, he said, adding that he held a meeting with Russian space officials this week to discuss this project.
		So the Russians, and it goes on, the Russians have had spectacular failures, of course.
		They've really been after Mars for a long time, trying to get to Mars.
		And they have what they call, in Russia, a Mars curse, you know, with so many of the spacecraft disintegrating, meeting with a suspicious end.
		In one case, a large object was seen headed directly toward a Russian spacecraft before it went into orbit.
		And they just had failure after failure, but the Russians, oh, they really want to go to Mars, and they're talking to NASA.
		Now, by the way, I wanted to mention Richard C. Holand will have more for us when he has more for us.
		They've not heard back from NASA yet.
		But they're in anticipation.
		There's really something going on with this.
		I think the world, I hope, is getting ready to go to Mars.
		God, that would be so exciting, wouldn't it, in our lifetimes?
		I might be sitting in my rocking chair watching on my plasma television as man touches down.
		I'd love that.
		On the surface of Mars, spends a couple of months there.
		And I'll bet you they find life.
		I'll bet they find life.
		Speaking of weird life, right at the very end of the program the other night, I got this incredible email, and this guy sent me these photographs, and I had the hardest time.
		Cyberspace failed me.
		Something failed, and I couldn't get it through to Keith until the gentleman who sent me the email sent it to Keith directly.
		We have since cleared the trouble up, thank goodness.
		But I want to read you this email that I got and reference my website.
		I've received many suggestions about what this might be, but nobody's totally sure.
		Here it is.
		Dear Art, this creature, and we've got photographs of whatever in the hell it is, this creature squirmed out of the bullet hole of a freshly killed pika here in Montana.
		We don't know what it is.
		My son went camping out at Monarch and hiked several miles into the woods with his friends.
		Late at night, they heard something out in the brush and having a 22 with them loaded it, got flashlights out, and started looking toward where the noise was coming from.
		They spotted the pika, shot it one time in the abdomen.
		They then took it and sat it on a flat rock and kept the flashlights trained on it, thinking that something else might come to check the dead pika out.
		Soon they noticed this, in quotes, creature wiggling out of the bullet hole and grabbed a cup, and once it was out of the pika, put it in the cup with some water.
		Now this, again, in quotes, creature has a stinger at the slender end of its body that would stick in and out like a wasp and mouth parts with grabbing teeth at the fat end.
unidentified		Yuck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It had no eyes that we could see.
		It also had, in the mouth part, two holes in the mouth.
		I assume one hole for a throat and the other for bringing fluids up to the grasping area.
		This creature was alive and not moving very much when I saw it the first time until I suggested they put it in warm, not hot water, just warm.
		When my son put it in warm water, that thing came alive big time.
		It was moving around like crazy and seen that the warm mutter, well, water rather, made it think it was inside another animal and looking for something to attach its mouth to.
		If any of your listeners, substitute that for readers, can identify this thing, that would be great.
		The creature is dead now, we think.
		And the pics I have do not show the stinger.
		I wasn't about to get my fingers anywhere near that thing to take pictures of it with my cam with that stinger and mouth going like it was.
		By the time they brought it back to me, it had died.
		Saw many movies where those things come alive and attack the amateur scientist.
		Yeah, he's right.
		He's absolutely right.
		So we got this email up along with the photographs.
		Take a look.
		Anytime anything crawls out of a bullet hole, it gets my attention.
unidentified		Yuck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you shoot something and you expect it to be dead.
		You do not expect things with big teeth to be crawling out of the bullet hole.
		So that's up on my website now under What's New entitled From Listener, The Creature.
		Well, maybe it's something well known, but I sure don't know what it is.
		Man, I'll tell you.
		All right.
		I have, as you well know, I have a romance with the whole concept, the whole idea of time travel.
		Time travel eats at me.
		I'll tell you what, let's do our break because otherwise I'll forget it.
		I'll get so wrapped up, I'll forget my break entirely.
		So let me do my break, and we'll come back and talk about time travel.
unidentified		Squad
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I do have a romance with time travel.
		Maybe it's a compulsion.
		Maybe it's a, I don't know what it is, but I have it.
		I know.
		And as you know, I've been reading you stories.
		I glommed on to this story the other day, and I'm going to lead you through it.
		First story I got was as follows.
		The headline is from Wireless Flash, Vatican sitting on time machine.
		Question mark.
		First, the Vatican was accused of hiding the records of priests who've abused kids.
		Now it's being accused of hiding a time machine.
		The machine in question is called a chronovisor.
		It was built in the 1950s by a Benedictine monk named Father Pellegrino Ernetti.
		No photos of the chronovisor even exist, but paranormal journalist John Chambers says Ernetti reportedly used the Wayback Machine, that's in quotes, Wayback Machine, to film Christ's crucifixion for Vatican officials.
		Ernetti died in 1994, it is, without revealing the secret of the chronovisor, but Chambers says evidence is mounting that the Catholic Church is hiding a working model from the rest of the world, supposedly to keep it from getting into evil hands.
		Sound crazy, maybe, but then again, there may be something to it.
		Chambers says a Jesuit priest named Father Francius Brunet, I don't know if that's right, believes the chronovisor must exist because in the priest's words, quote, Ernetti wouldn't lie about such things, end quote.
		Then a follow-up to that story, as follows, the Benedictine father, Marcello Pellegrini Ernetti, died in 1997, invented a method of recovering sound waves from the past and converting them into visual and acoustic reconstruction of history.
		Father Ernetti, a professor at the Venetian Benedito Marcello Conservatory and foundation, I'm slaughtering all of this, I'm sure, accomplished his research in collaboration with 12 physicists who remain anonymous.
		In 1956, Father Ernetti began to investigate the possibility of reviewing the past with a television-like device.
		This clears it up a little bit, maybe.
		In 1957, he began collaborating with the Portuguese professor Damatos, who was researching the same problem.
		Ernetti's theoretical approach was based on Aristotle's concept of the disintegration of sound, according to which light and sound waves do not disappear after being produced, but are rather transformed in some way and remain present indefinitely.
		According to Ernetti, sound waves subdivide into harmonics and can be recovered with appropriate instruments.
		Ernetti stated that every human being traces from birth to death a double furrow of light and sounds.
		This constitutes his individual identity mark.
		The same applies to an event, to music, to movement.
		The antennas used in our laboratory enable us to tune into these furrows of pictures or sound.
		Ernetti recovered photographs of events such as, it's claimed, the crucifixion of Christ and reconstructed acoustic events such as Quintus Innes' Tragedy, the original Latin from a performance in 169 BC.
		He also claimed to have recovered the original text of the Ten Commandments given to Moses.
		Oh my gosh, can you imagine that?
		He refused to reveal any details of his invention, and it has been thoroughly suppressed by the Italian government.
		Father Ernetti warned that the machine can produce universal tragedy.
		That should give you something to think about.
		So this reporter, we found this reporter, Mr. Chambers.
		And coming up after the break, we're going to put him on the air for you.
		And so you can imagine tonight we're going to be talking a lot about time travel.
		I'm Mark Bell from the High Deserts.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		Buckle in, everybody.
		It's coming.
unidentified		You got me running, going out of my mind.
		You got me thinking that I'm wasting my time.
		Don't bring me down.
		No, no, no, no, no.
		I'll tell you what's wrong before I get off the floor.
		Don't bring me down.
		You want to stay out with your parents and friends.
		I'm feeling you're gonna bleed me in.
		Don't bring me down.
		No, no, no, no, no, no.
		BANG
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Into the night now, John Chambers.
		We found John Chambers.
		John Chambers is translator and commentator of Conversations with Eternity.
		He has an M.A. in English and studied at the University of Paris.
		I love Paris.
		My wife and I love Paris.
		God, that's a beautiful city.
		His previous, the French, that's different, but Paris, huh?
		His previous translations include Phase 1 CEQ Manifesto.
		He's been a full-time instructor in English at Dawson College, Montreal, an assistant editor at McGraw-Hill Publishing, and managing editor at International Thompson Publishing, both in New York.
		He's written numerous articles on the paranormal.
		John is the publisher of New Paradigm Books, who brought out the book Father Ernetti's Chronovisor.
		The Creation and Disappearance of the World's First Time Machine.
		Let me repeat the name of that book, all right?
		Father Ernetti's Chronovisor, The Creation and Disappearance of the World's First Time Machine.
		Here is John Chambers.
		John, welcome to the program.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Thanks, Arl.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad you found me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you know, I began to get these rather obscure stories about this, and I have this incredible romance with time travel, and I went, oh, my God, could the Vatican, I mean, the Vatican, number one, they have a lot of secrets.
		They keep all kinds of things secret, John.
		But they've got this whole area below the Vatican full of secrets, tunnels under the Vatican, and they've got the third secret of Fatima that I don't believe they've still told us the real truth about, the whole truth.
		They've got power.
		They've got telescopes.
		And in Arizona, they went zooming by all this ecological problem that anybody else would have to get a telescope.
		And the Vatican is fascinating.
		And so when I saw this story connected to a time machine in the Vatican, it about drove me nuts.
		And I started to do some research, and we found you.
		So how did you get involved with all of this?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		A long story.
		Let me think.
		I, you know, sort of as a journalist, I went up to an Eric von Doniken Chariots of the Gods conference in Orlando, Florida, 1997, just because I covered that kind of thing.
		And I expected that the speakers would be rather elderly people of von Doniken's generation.
		I was fascinated by the subject, of course.
		I got up there when there were a whole bunch of young, brilliant speakers, half from America, the other half from Germany, mostly Germany and Switzerland.
		A fellow named Peter Krasa got up from Austria and gave a talk about Father and Eddie's chronovisor.
		And Peter had just published a book on Father and Eddie's Chronovisor.
		I had never heard of this before.
		And at that time I was studying a publishing company, and it occurred to me that maybe I should buy the rights to this book and translate it into English.
		It was an astonishing subject.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then it hit you exactly the way it did me.
unidentified		I went, oh my God, this really could be true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if the Vatican really did have such thing, what would they do with it?
		You bet exactly what it is said here.
		They allegedly did.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's, you know, Ernetti, I'm sort of repeating here what's in Peter's book.
		Then we did a lot of research on our own and added sections and so on.
		Bernetti was a Benedictine monk, Italian, a very, very brilliant man, became an expert, very early on became an expert on what's called polyphonic music.
		That's music that was composed from about 2000 BC to 1000 AD.
		Bernetti wrote a whole mess of books on the subject, also called archaic music.
		He was the world authority on Gregorian chant.
		He held the only chair in the world on polyphonic music.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well that all sounds like various forms of altered states to me.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've got a big point there.
		But the thing is, the first thing about his holding this chair, I think, is suggest that this is a considerable man.
		He's a very, very learned, substantial fellow.
		It's a little hard to dismiss him as a flake.
		That's one of the things that got me very quickly.
		And secondly, yes, it's true that when you get, I understand that when you get back into ancient Greek music, you're talking music of the spheres.
		You're talking about vibrations passed through the ether or the astral food.
		Such was the theorizing then.
		And I think it stands to reason that Arnetti must have had a lot of really arcane esoteric knowledge about sounds and very, very basic, primordial ways in which sound and sight were transmitted.
		As you were saying earlier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, listen, even modern music, even relatively modern music, will put you into an altered state of sorts.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		So it may well be that music that older people may be a much more profound state than we know of in our present-day society.
		It's a little bit akin to these mantras that have been so fashionable for the last few decades.
		These mantras that you hear repeated were supposed to have come to fakirs and yogis who have been meditating in caves for years.
		These mantras are delivered straight to them from God.
		And who knows that there's not some kind of huge truth in this niche.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, listen, I studied Buddhism.
		I studied Nishu and Soku Soka Gai Buddhism.
		And in that, you chant Namyo Horenkekyu, Namyohorenkekyuyo, Namyo, Kykykykyuk.
		I know, but yes, it produces an altered state.
		So, I mean, there's a lot to go on here.
		In what way was Father Ernetti technical, or how did he get wrapped up with these physicists?
		In other words, when did it move, do you think, toward this chronovisor, this look back in time?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Well, Art, for sure, for sure he knew a lot about physics, also he had a degree in quantum physics, subatomic physics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and along with having this tremendous knowledge of music, which that I don't understand how does a priest uh...
		how does a benedictine priest um...
		get into that Well, one might think so.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		I would tend to agree with you, except that there's no doubt that Arnetti had this degree and did do research.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm with you.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		So we're talking, a very, very unusual man.
		And, you know, and all the more, a guy that you can't dismiss as some kind of flake.
		Whatever was going on, it's very hard to just dismiss him out of hand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not doing that.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		No, I know that.
		I know that.
		But generally speaking, that's what you come up against.
		That's what I came up against when I began to research this material.
		On the one hand, you do want to dismiss him because of some of his assertions and his claims.
		On the other hand, you really can't.
		And what has happened recently, or I guess I'm sort of maybe kind of getting far away from your last question, what has happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
		Just let me add here that I've interviewed a lot of the world's best scientists.
		And I have no problem, you know, I pin people down.
		That's what I do.
		And I will frequently ask a theoretical physicist or a physicist or a man of science, do you believe in the God of the Bible?
		You know, that's an uncomfortable question.
		Most of them, when really pressed, you mean the exact God of the Bible.
		No, I don't.
		I mean, that's what comes from hard science more times than not.
		And that's why I said what I said.
		So he's a priest and a physicist.
		Oh, my goodness.
		Anyway, so.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're talking to a real unusual man, that's for sure.
		And one thing that's happened recently is that, first of all, there was Peter Kross's book in German, and then we translated Peter's book, made a lot of changes.
		We had a lot of new documentation.
		And those were the only books there were about Ornette, except that a few years before Peter brought out his book, you mentioned this fellow earlier also, a French Jesuit priest named François Brun, who was a well-known journalist in France, even wrote a bestseller on paranormal phenomena at one point.
		Father Francois Brun, I think it was 1994, wrote a book in which he had a long section on Father Ernetti.
		And that was one of the first books that sort of put Ernetti and his achievements before the general public, although there had been lots of rumors for years about this chronovo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, one quote from him was that, in his opinion, no matter what else, Father Ernetti would not have lied about this.
unidentified		Yeah.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		The thing is that François Brune knew Ernetti well.
		He encountered him when Brune was very young, about 23, and had been doing post-graduate, he was French, but had been doing some graduate studies in Rome.
		And hitchhiked up to Venice to have a look at the basilicas and bumped into Ernetti, seemingly by chance.
		And they talked.
		Ernetti told him his story.
		And Father Brune was, of course, totally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		His mind was blown.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think Ernetti told him the story?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I don't know.
		Maybe he sensed something sympathetic in Brune.
		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At this point, how old was Ernetti?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		He was born in 1925.
		He would have been about 37.
		I was a guest.
		I think Brune would be 15 years, maybe 10, 15 years younger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So a relatively young man, talking to a younger man and telling him, in essence, I guess, that he had built this machine with the help of other physicists.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long did it take in the doing, do you know?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		I don't know anything about that, but two of the physicists that he claimed helped him were Fernand von Braun, I guess it was legitimate, and Henriko Fermi.
		So already that sounds improbable already, I know that.
		And it sounded pretty improbable to Father Brun.
		But the thing is, Father Brun, over the years, would go around and see Ernetti, and they would chat about all manner of things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, and always Francois Brun saw that Ernetti was a master of many fields of knowledge, interesting, informed things he had to say about theology, about the construction of the machine itself, how long it was in construction, anything of the nature of it at all?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do we know?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we do.
		Yeah, we do.
		Well, we know what Ernetti said anyway.
		And it was something you know the Alioop comic strips.
		I think they're still around.
		Alioop is the caveman who was brought forward for our time by Dr. One Mug in a time machine.
		But a lot of the time we're seeing One Mug standing in a little booth looking into a TV screen and watching Ali Oop kind of cavorting several million years ago.
		And Arnetti, apparently Arnetti's chronovisor was more of an apparatus that enables him to see back and hear back through time.
		Something like a TV screen, something like earphones.
		It looked very complex, like a little bath escape.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This was a machine, though, that used an antenna in receiving light and sound that exist always, that once produced are always essentially there.
		And you can somehow tune into them.
		And that would include, I guess, anything from the present until the most distant past.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		That seems to be what Ernetti claimed.
		Yeah.
		You know, we used to talk a lot in both the Kashyk records and so forth.
		And today a lot of physicists are talking about how it is rather quite possible, maybe even probable, that all sounds, all sound waves, all light waves, you know, kind of produced by us as we live, they are absorbed into the environment around us and they're there to be accessed if we can figure out how to access them.
		And there's even a fairly well-known Nobel Prize-winning physicist, I think he's in France now, was maybe born in Romania, who went to Greece and tried to access the memories of the columns of the Acropolis.
		This is a very distinguished man.
		I don't know how successful he was, but he tried to do this in some way.
		Could he kind of hear, sound, see things from ancient Greece?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, do you know in what way these things were manifested?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, what year was it again that Father Ernetti claimed he did this?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is in the mid-50s that he claimed that he did this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, that was, gee whiz, television was a fledgling thing at that point, wasn't it?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was, of course, there was TV.
		It was certainly around, yeah.
		It just started, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, fledgling, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I wonder if it involved any modern technology married with some technology, perhaps very ancient.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Yes, apparently that's exactly what it was, although I don't know exactly the appropriate word here.
		Some kind of a combination of quantum physics and astral fluid metaphysics, something.
		He intimated these things.
		He kind of, you know, dropped hints about the guy had a degree in physics.
		He did a lot of experimentation.
		And he had this very, very, really vast knowledge of very esoteric things having to do, starting with ancient music.
		He wrote about 100 books in his lifetime.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		100 books.
		But still, there must have been this moment, John, when Father Ernetti had perfected to the degree that he had the chronovisor, and then he must have gone to the Vatican.
		They must have started upstairs saying, look, I'm a priest, and I have invented a way to look at the past.
		What does the Vatican want me to do?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Well, likely he did something like that.
		You know, for the last maybe 10, 15 years of his life, he stopped talking about the Conovisor.
		And Francois Brun, in his first book and also in a new book that's come out, says he thinks that the Vatican told him to stop talking and then told him not to tell people that the Vatican had told him to stop talking.
		But the thing is that one of the reasons why I got so interested is that you begin to think about, I'm sure you've thought about this for years, the implications of time travel, the power that it would bestow on the possessor and how powerful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but this is not exactly the H.G. Wells type machine where you actually physically go to the past.
		It is nevertheless a way of bringing the past or verifying the past.
		And so they went to look at the crucifixion of Christ and reportedly got visual and sound reproduction of the crucifixion of Christ.
		Is that what you've heard?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		I know how probable that sounds.
		Ernetti claimed to have gone back, well, I guess not seen and heard back, I guess maybe we can put it that way, to the crucifixion and seen Christ dying on the cross and taken a photo.
		And at some point, that photo sort of, he didn't release the photo himself.
		At some point, it kind of got out.
		The press got a hold of it.
		Where is that photo?
		We reproduced it in our book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You reproduced the exact photo?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have that photograph?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, John.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		I better add that after a while, it seemed that this was a fraud.
		It was found that this photo of the face of Christ was a photo of Christ on a wooden cross, carved on a wooden cross in a small church in central Italy.
		So it looked like fraud.
		And so Father Brune, Francois Brun, of course, who would see Ernetti periodically put it to him and said, who couldn't believe that this very accomplished man would have to do something fraudulent, put it to him and said, what happened?
		And Ernetti had an explanation for it, a very kind of ingenuous explanation that Ernetti claimed that the, I don't know if I get the details, right?
		It's in our book.
		Ernetti claimed that the wooden statue, the carving, the artist who did it had been inspired by a nun who had mystical visions, and it had the mystical visions of the crucifixion of Christ.
		So Ernetti kind of said, well, his vision, what he carved was the result of inspiration because of a vision from somebody who herself also had the ability to go back and see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right, all right.
		Hold on.
		We're at the top of the hour, and we'll be right back.
		John Chambers is my guest.
		A time machine in the Vatican's hands.
		What do you think?
unidentified		I've been where the eagle flies Rode his wings cross all the skies Kissed the sun, touched the moon But he left me much too soon His ladybird He left his ladybird Amen.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back now to my guest, John Chambers.
		So glad that we found you, John.
		All right, so he allegedly, nevertheless, photographed the crucifixion of Christ, but that wasn't all they allegedly did with it, is it?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		No, he claimed to have gone a little farther back to Rome in 169 B.C., as I think you read earlier, and to have watched a tragedy, a play that we don't, it's lost to antiquity, but people, We know that it's called Theestes by a guy named Quintus Ennius.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		And Bernetti claimed to have, I guess, jotted down a bunch of the dialogue of this play and to have come back or to have retrieved using his chronovisor a fragment of this play.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has proof, I guess, huh?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and we were very fortunate.
		I made contact with Francois Brun while we were putting the book together, and he was good enough to send me the fragment, a copy of the fragment in Latin, of course.
		We got a Princeton professor, Ph.D. in classics, to translate it for us and to write commentary.
		That's in our book, too.
		It's really extremely interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		okay in your book again is called uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		father and eddie's chrono visor the creation and disappears the world's first time time machine uh...
unidentified		uh...
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		so i don't know what to say Also, I wanted to add, I'd like to add one thing before I forget, and that is that he claimed at one point that they saw a little bit into the future just far enough to see a bank robbery taking place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was going to be my next question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could it go to the future?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, apparently he says that once they did look a little bit into the future, saw a bank robbery taking place, and were able to call the police in the present and have it prevented, which kind of reminds you a bit of this new movie, Morton with Tom Cruise's Minority Report.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's absolutely incredible.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And of course, I didn't see all that movie, just part of it, but there you see that this ability that these police have to look a little bit into the future and arrest people for murder before they murder, that ability has corrupted the police force absolutely.
		And, you know, that power has corrupted them.
		And perhaps, I think Francois Bruhn feels that perhaps the Vatican is holding something, maybe not the Konoviza, but maybe the plans for it.
		All right, because they're afraid people will be corrupted by it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		That may well be.
		But let's, for a second, imagine the Vatican actually has a photograph of the crucifixion.
		Now, if they really have that, well, I guess I'm trying to imagine why they would suppress it, because it would give so many people religion.
		But the answer must be that in order to release that, they would have to release, I suppose, total information on how they got it, wouldn't they?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Well, they also might be afraid that something like a chronovisor would prove that the kind of standard Catholic Catholic version of what took place was not quite true.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		I think they were maybe a little afraid that things have been distorted through the centuries, and yet they, of course, passed down and give us so much as black and white doctrine.
unidentified		Okay, dogma.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, Father Ernetti warned that, and I'm quoting here, the machine can produce universal tragedy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you imagine he might have meant by that?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Here, I think he really thinks he meant that bad guys could get a hold of such a machine and run the world and ruin the world.
		I think he meant that.
		And it seems to me that's a real probability.
		That's one of the things that makes this story, Ernest's story, kind of, I wouldn't say convincing, but makes it think a lot about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, so then the ability to look into the past or look into the future, surely that could easily be used, particularly a glance into the future, to affect world events.
		And that almost gets us to the big problem with all time travel in the past, maybe.
		Well, if you were to even, you always worry about altering the past, but if you were to alter the future, there could be equally dire consequences one might imagine for doing such a thing, for changing the future.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think so.
		I'm no expert.
		Unfortunately, we haven't been able to translate any.
		But he once said to me something like, you know, maybe some of the events that are taking place now have been kind of engineered from the future.
		because you wasn't supposed to be this way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you know, the implications are, He said, oh, my God, this is fascinating.
		Did you know that Werner von Braun worked with the French on, allegedly worked with the French on anti-gravity?
		No, I didn't know that.
		So if that's true, then it might not be so wild that if von Braun got information that there was something like this in the works, he might well have joined in.
		It may not be so wild.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		No, you know, of course, we researched this a lot, and as I said, we made a lot of changes, or we added a lot of new materials.
		Our book's significantly different from Peter's, which was a wonderful book anyway.
		But it seemed to us that Ferner von Braun just couldn't have been around at the time, anywhere nearby at the time Ernetti was building the machine.
		But one doesn't know, of course, how much is changed and suppressed.
		Ernetti says that somebody else who helped him was Enrico Fermi, and he did know Enrico Fermi.
		We know that for sure.
		So it's a vast, mind-boggling mystery, finally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you believe that the Vatican would imagine this to fall into the wrong hands?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what to believe, Art.
		I know that Francois Brun, he brought out a new book in February in a French publisher.
		It's called in English The Vatican's New Mystery.
		And he again covers this Renetti territory that he covered first of all in 94 in another book.
		And he's read our book, because I know him.
		Excellent person.
		And he takes issue with some of the points that we raised.
		For example, our translator, our classics, Princeton classics professor, translator of the Ernetti fragment from the past, she thought that maybe This was not genuine, that Ernetti could have put it together.
		And she had offered certain little proofs, not proofs, but certain bits of evidence to suggest, she very mildly suggests that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, to say that Ernetti lied about all of this is what that would be saying.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Well, she suggested that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, but wait a minute here.
		We've got a priest, first of all, he's a priest, and I don't expect him to lie, but get past that.
		Then we've got a priest claiming that he's got this machine that can look into the past or even the future for that matter, and a priest who is acquainted with quantum subatomic physics, a priest who has knowledge that most priests would never have in the hard sciences.
		And this doesn't sound like a joker of a man to me.
		It doesn't sound like a prankster of a man to me, does it, to you?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		No, and what you've just said is really kind of exactly the position that Francois Brun takes in his latest book, Vis-a-B.
		Some of these really mild comments of our excellent translator.
		He says this is not so.
		This fragment of Latin is, of course, Ernetti was also a great scholar of Latin.
		Of course, all monks know Latin still, and you are particularly a great scholar of Latin.
		And it could be argued that maybe he had the knowledge to put it together.
		But Father Bruhn says, who's also an excellent scholar in Latin, says, no, this is too complex, this piece, this fragment.
		Father Bruhn wouldn't have done it and couldn't have done it.
		It's too hard to do.
		So that's a lot of issues coming here.
		So what you just said is what Father Bruhn would have said vis-a-vis her remarks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, the Catholic Church, the Vatican, a big part of Catholicism, every religion really, is faith.
		It's faith.
		Now, I wonder if having actual proof of the crucifixion, even if it was exactly as we have read in the Bible, having real hardcore proof of that might remove that faith part in some way the Catholic Church would not want it removed.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		That's a terrific point.
		I mean, I hadn't thought about it.
		That's a terrific point.
		What's the standard, the famous definition of faith?
		It has to do with things unseen and things unheard.
		And, you know, if you could get proof, proof or disproof have nothing to do with faith.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's belief in something you can't prove.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Right.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		So, no, you're absolutely right in what you said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that would be something you suddenly could prove.
		And then there's the other possibility, and that is that they filmed or they got pictures of the crucifixion, and somehow it was not as described in the Bible, or in some way, a worrying way different.
		Did they describe, other than the photograph, which you've already talked about, did they describe anything that would have clashed with what we know biblically?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Renetti did describe to Brune, and we have it in our book way back in 62, what he saw.
		And it doesn't differ very much from the standard version of the Bible, in the New Testament.
		Little bits and pieces here and there.
		Christ didn't say something that he's supposed to have said and did say something that was not recorded.
		What Ernetti said about the crucifixion, just very small deviations.
		But again, you're looking at a, it's so complex, really, you're looking at a priest who's loyal to the Catholic Church, who has faith, and maybe there's lots of things he's not going to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it also true that he claimed to have recovered the original text of the Ten Commandments given to Moses?
		I mean, you can imagine this Kodak moment, you know, when Moses is holding the still smoldering tablets with the Ten Commandments on them.
		Is that essentially what they claimed?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that's in Peter's book.
		We didn't put that in.
		Sometimes when things seemed a bit improbable, we didn't put that in.
		Maybe we should have.
		Of course, there is so much to say about it.
		That's the thing.
		I think I did hear that, but that's not anything Ernie dwells on.
		Mostly he talks about the also he talks about the crucifixion.
		He talks about this play that we don't have anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The bank robbery?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he talks about the bank robbery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, here's an interesting question for you.
		If you were to be able to see a bank robbery that was going to occur, get to the police, prevent the bank robbery, you might, in that process, for example, prevent somebody from taking a bullet between the eyes who otherwise would have taken a bullet.
		Now somebody is not dying who, in the scheme of things, was supposed to die.
		People imagine only problems with changing the past, but I imagine the same problems inherent in changing the future.
		In other words, if somebody lives to produce offspring or become president or blow up the world or whatever lesser thing they might do in their life, but they live instead of die, then you might have the same paradox problem you've got with travel to the past.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I would agree.
		You know, I think that there's all kinds of, you know, many people say that all sorts of problems at time travel.
		Maybe it's possible, but there may be all sort of overwhelming and an overwhelmingly large number of reasons why we should never do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which is again why, even if this man, who I you know, I'm leaning toward, I mean, here we've got a physicist who consulted with how many other physicists in the world?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Well, he came again twelve, and we don't know very much about that, really.
		You'd mentioned you read something from another article of Matos the Portuguese, I'm not sure, another physicist, and we know he had something to do with him, but we don't know very much about that, really.
		And all of these people, these physicists denied, I think they all denied, or not exactly denied ever having anything to do with a coronavisor, but they sort of didn't reply to their messages and had gone on vacation when they were approached about this.
		I don't know much about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gee, that sounds just like my own government here.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When they hold news conferences and stuff.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's a vast story.
		The Russian press reported about 10, 15 years ago that there had been attempts to abduct Ernetti, certain foreign governments.
		There's an awful lot of rumors.
		And it's just the more you get into it, On the one hand, you keep wanting to dismiss it.
		On the other hand, you cannot dismiss it.
		And Father Bruhn finally can't dismiss it.
		He says Bernetti was too fine a man.
		He was too smart a man.
		He was too accomplished.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would he make something of this scale up?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, why would he?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, why would he?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you say that in later years, the Vatican told him essentially to clam up.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		That's what Father Bruin thinks, although apparently when the Vatican tells a priest to clam up, they also tell the priest to clamp up about having been told to clam up.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		So we don't have any kind of, you know, nobody's saying, nobody will ever say yes, that was the case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why not?
		Do you know whether they went back and they looked and tried to look at, oh, I don't know, Adam and Eve, perhaps creation itself?
		I can think of a lot of things I'd want to look at with such a machine.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't.
		He doesn't.
		Sorry, I know he didn't mention, he mentions having watched Cicero give an oration.
		Wow.
		And Ernetti even makes some comments on how Cicero's Latin was a little bit different than had been taught than Papries had been taught it was when they went to seminaries in the 20th century.
		Also, he says he saw Mussolini give a speech.
		He Heard Mussolini give a speech.
		So a few other things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, your book, I presume, is available on Amazon.com, that kind of place.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it's available on Amazon.com.
		It's available directly from us.
		We make an awful lot of sales off of our online secure site order form.
		Our website is newpara.com, N-E-W-P-A-R-A.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think we've got a, Let me check real quick.
		I hope, and I think we've got a probably got a link to that.
		Let me see.
		Yep, we sure do.
		We've got a link to your website.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Great.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Certainly it's available from Amazon.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we've got a link that will take you right to Amazon.com to the book.
		And the book, again, is intriguingly called Father Netty's Chronovisor, The Creation and Disappearance of the World's First Time Machine.
		When did your book come out?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		It came out a little, about two years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About two years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that the publishing of your book is what spurred the stories that I read that got me so intrigued?
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		I think maybe the publishing of Father Brune's book, which in some ways sort of takes us to task, takes our book to task a little bit on certain things, because I wouldn't say we are a little skeptical, but certain sections of our book raise doubts, and Father Bruhn reacted to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was quite sure all of this was very real.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Well, he doesn't know.
		I mean, Bruin is, again, when you're talking about Father Bruh, you're talking about a very, very smart man, a very learned man, and a priest who was loyal to the church.
		And he just makes a gentle suggestion, but he does certainly feel strongly that the Catholic Church is hushing up something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha, John.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		For our own good.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		For our own good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, for our own good.
		We're going to be talking about it.
		John, thank you so much for coming on the air with me.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		My pleasure, Ert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have a good night, my friend.
john chambers ▲ ● ▼		Thanks a lot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		is close to me
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, I can't resist calling attention to this.
		As many of you know, some years ago, in fact, it was referred to by Paul Harvey the other day on his program.
		I refer, of course, to the Madman Markham story, the man who stole the transformers.
		And it was a long story that unrolled, unfolded on this program, and Madman finally got a warehouse and got these giant transformers and got a generator.
		And oh my God, he was about to try it.
		And the last time we talked to him, he was going to walk into this machine he'd made.
		And we've never heard from him since.
		And that's been years now and years.
		Mentioned the other day by Paul Harvey, but I don't think he mentioned the whereabouts of Madman.
		I kind of nicknamed him Madman.
		His real name was Mike.
		At any rate, I wonder what happened to him.
		Now, you know, it's punctuated by the fact that I've had recent interviews with a man named Dr. David Anderson, who was very deeply, deeply involved in time travel.
		He came on the program a number of times, a very credible scientist involved in time travel experiments, and he's gone.
		I'm telling you, he's gone.
		And if you're out there, Dr. Anderson, contact me.
		But I'll tell you what, his website, his telephones, his cell phones, his everything, every way we had to connect to him is cut off.
		Gone.
		Now, that's two people that I've interviewed that have just disappeared into the night.
		Now, at least one of the possibilities you have to imagine from all of that is that they tried their device.
		So I want to talk about time travel.
		I want to talk about this new incredible crop circle in Great Britain.
		I want to talk about a lot of things, but mostly time travel, I think.
		Obviously, as always, if there's anybody out there who seriously, you listen to me carefully.
		If you seriously are claiming that you have traveled in time, I definitely want to talk to you.
		I have a lot of things I want to ask you.
		I firmly, I believe, you know, that time travel is real and that there probably are time travelers here now.
		If time travel is to be real, then they are here now.
		The famous saying, of course, was, if time travel is real, then where are all the time travelers?
		Well, I propose to you they are here.
		Or perhaps they are just watching now, so to speak.
		Maybe they're not really here physically.
		Maybe like the chronovisor, it's only possible to view time either in the past or to the future.
		But we know that renowned physicists and this priest were working on it.
		We know that probably something really happened, that the Vatican may well be hiding this.
		What would you have looked at?
		If you had something like the chronovisor and you could look either into the past or the future, what event would you go for?
		Would you view the manner of your own demise, your own death?
		Would you look at the crucifixion?
		Would you want to know?
		Would you look at Adam and Eve?
		Would you look at the moment of creation?
		Would you look into the future and notify the police about a bank robbery?
		What would you do?
		East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
		Good morning.
		Hello?
		Yes, hello.
unidentified		Yes, this is Mary Ann from Syracuse, New York on WSYR 570.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the way to do a promo, Mary Ann.
unidentified		Thank you.
		Well, thank you.
		Just prior to when you returned, somebody called Barbara on a Saturday night, and they were talking about Madman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And this man said he had been looking at microfish of old papers, newspapers from the 1930s.
unidentified		And there was an article about a man in, I believe it was Michigan, near Lake Michigan, who was found crushed to death in a tube.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In a tube.
unidentified		In a tube.
unidentified		And now, didn't Madman used to say he went into a tube or something when he.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, not a tube.
		Oh, I know now what you're referring to.
		No, he had sort of a gate-like device that was creating this field that he claimed.
		He first made a small model and threw a little bolt, you know, a little bolt, a metal bolt through it.
		And the metal bolt disappeared as it went through the device and then reappeared on the other side.
		Now, Mad Man was going to expand and build a large model.
		That was just a scale model.
		And he was going to build a large model.
		And I could not discourage him.
		He was going to walk through this field that he created.
		So not so much a tube.
unidentified		Well, the man said the article had stated that a man was found crushed to death in a tube, and the clothing was not from the 30s.
		They didn't understand what the clothing was from.
		But the gentleman said there was something that was found with the body, which the police, of course, did not recognize.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And they had a photo of it, and he said it was a cell phone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, maybe it was, and maybe it wasn't Madman.
		Who's to know?
		But maybe it was certainly an example of some kind of time travel gone wrong.
		Wow, fascinating.
unidentified		I know.
unidentified		And the other thing I want to tell you, that you were talking about our eyes are seeing faster now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That vibrationally, we're beginning to see higher frequencies.
unidentified		Prior to my getting digital cable, I would see shadow people now and then.
unidentified		After I had the digital cable put in, we've been seeing things all the time in the house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, welcome to the world.
		Thank you very much.
		Yes.
		The theory here being, and this extends not just to digital television, but to, for example, very high frequency monitors, very, very, very high frequency monitors that we're all using now.
		The newer ones have incredible refresh rates, and the frequencies that you're watching when you spend a very great deal of time in front of your computer or your digital TV or HD TV or whatever, are much higher frequencies.
		And it may well be that these are, in effect, training our brains to begin seeing in new frequency spectrums.
		And that would account for seeing new things and even new creatures.
		Yes.
		We've discussed that heavily as one possibility.
		And that, in effect, we may be providing our own evolutionary path in the sense that with the development of our technology, we are beginning to, in the very literal sense, open our eyes to things we have never seen before.
		And that takes us to the shadow people and discussions of different dimensions and all kinds of interesting things.
		Is it not a wonderful time to be alive?
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello?
		Hello?
		Yes, ma'am.
		Yes, I'm calling from Ithaca, New York.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ithaca, New York, okay.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		And we don't have a radio station here, so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm very impressed that you were able to get through on the West of the Rockies line from Ithaca, New York.
unidentified		Oh, West of the Rockies line?
unidentified		Is that what I called on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what you called on somehow.
unidentified		Because I thought it was Wildcard or Wildlife.
unidentified		Oh, Wild Line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they sequence up, so that's how you ended up here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's fine.
unidentified		Okay.
		Well, at any rate, I'm calling about the camera of past events as was written in the life and teaching of the masters of the Far East.
		Yes.
		And it was written by Baird Spalding.
		And it's a five-volume book.
		And this, in volume five, which was published in 1955, they talk about Baird Spalding and Steinmetz and Edison working together on a camera of past events.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounds like the chronovisor, doesn't it?
unidentified		Yeah, and Baird Spalding worked with Dr. Steinmetz for about nine years on this.
		And ultimately, let's see, they were able to go back in time.
		And Dr. Steinmetz said they could go back to one million years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My God.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A million years.
unidentified		million years, right.
unidentified		But the first event that they tested was...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, there is so much argument about the evolution of man or the creation of man that can you tell me anything at all about what they reported 2,000 years ago, 6,000 years ago, 10,000 years ago, 100,000 years ago?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, what do we know about mankind?
unidentified		Well, in this particular volume, you know, he just talks about two events.
		And one was George Washington's inaugural address in New York City, which they actually saw and heard.
		And then the other was the Sermon on the Mount.
		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And again, it's light and sound.
unidentified		Yes, exactly.
unidentified		Light and sound.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		Let me ask you a question.
		If you had a device of that kind, what event would you first and most want to see?
unidentified		Oh, gosh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that could be in the future or the past.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Apparently.
unidentified		I, well, maybe the Sermon on the Mount would be a good one to start with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would, wouldn't it?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you could understand it.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're giving cooperating evidence for a parallel attempt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And actually, it sounds like it's pretty close to the same years, too.
unidentified		Well, it is.
unidentified		And he also mentioned Leonardo da Vinci and something to do with the Vatican in here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Vatican?
unidentified		The Vatican.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't happen to have the exact reference in there to the Vatican, do you?
unidentified		Well, let's see.
		He was going back.
		Let's see.
		How does this tie in with this?
		it's in this chapter talk about things that uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, synchronicity.
		I mean, you fall into a story that you hadn't heard about before, and all of a sudden, not only do we now have one story, but we have two stories about the same technology developed roughly at the same time, doing roughly the same kind of thing.
		That's incredible.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then that technology, all of a sudden, poof, disappears.
		And unless you're listening to a program like this one, you're not going to hear about this.
		When was the last time you heard NBC reporting on the chronovisor?
unidentified		Never.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Never is right.
		All right.
		Well, listen, thank you very, very much for the call.
		And isn't that interesting?
		Now we've got another path to look down.
		Oh, my.
		Could it be?
		That the ability to look into time past or future is something that's well established and being hidden from us all for perhaps you've got to imagine for perhaps good reason.
		I suppose.
		But I am so driven to find out about this.
		And I wonder myself.
		I am in fact so driven and so compulsive about the whole time thing that if I were to actually get the opportunity to give it a try, even knowing the possibility that it could be a one-way trip, I don't know.
		Well, I'll tell you, it's like your finger hovering over the enter button, right, when you've just put in the disk destroy command, you know, and your finger kind of hovers above the enter command, and you wonder whether you really should do this, whether you're about to blow your computer into a total new dimension from which it will never recover.
		One little keystroke.
		One little button.
		I probably would.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Aloha, how are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, from Hawaii, huh?
unidentified		A lot of time I spend out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not there now?
unidentified		No, I'm not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Incline Village, Nevada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, excellent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the program.
unidentified		Thank you.
unidentified		I'd like to offer maybe kind of a refreshing approach to the concept of time travel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let her rip.
unidentified		There is, on the cutting edge of physics, the thought that there is no time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And that the universe is actually a space-place continuum.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That time really is our invention.
unidentified		So to speak.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, we know.
		I can look at a clock, right, and I watch it go tick, tick, tick.
		And so there is that.
		I mean, there is that measurement.
		It's one object measured against the movement of another, I suppose, if nothing else.
		You know, the beginning of, in quotes, time, that's how you'd measure.
		You'd measure change or the delta between two objects in movement.
		Before that, there could be no time.
		So time could be really our invention and probably is, I guess.
unidentified		Having a lot to do with two vibrational concepts of light and sound.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And it's extremely interesting that you would mention that this new crop circle was like a snowflake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think I said, my wife said Rose.
		It could be snowflake.
		I don't know.
		Have you seen it?
unidentified		I can imagine what it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I don't know if you can.
unidentified		To answer a question also that you asked about time travelers being here, yes, there are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, wait a minute.
		You say that in an affirmative way.
		Like, you know?
unidentified		Yes, I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you know?
unidentified		What I would tell you is what I could offer you is something called a Merovingian Christolic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's that?
unidentified		The Merovingians were the first thromateurs or sorcerer kings of Gaul.
		And they were the Franks.
		And they were the ones that civilized Gaul over the Celtic tribes.
		And very incredible reign.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, how do you know affirmatively there was time travel?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You haven't told me that.
unidentified		Affirmatively, because for one, there is no time.
		The universe is a basic crystallography.
		What that means is if we look two-dimensionally upon it, it looks something like a honeycomb.
		And therefore, bees were considered sacred in ancient time, and so on and so forth.
		So that what you see on a two-dimensional level is expounded upon by those people such as Carl Sagan, who in contact created a machine that was a rhomboid odecahedron.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but you still have not explained to me how you know yourself personally it's true.
		Well, I've traveled.
		Now we get to it.
		Listen, can you afford to hang on through the break coming up?
unidentified		Oh, sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because when you make a statement like, I have traveled, you stop me cold.
		All right?
		All right, stay there.
		It looks like we've got one on our hands.
		You will hear this tonight.
		People who claim to have traveled in time.
		And I welcome it.
		I'm Art Bell.
		This is Coase.
unidentified		Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
		You don't have to go.
		Oh, oh, oh, oh.
		You don't have to go.
		Oh, oh, oh, oh.
		You don't have to go.
		All those tears I cry.
		All those tears I cry.
		All those tears I cry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, right to it now.
		And back to my first-time caller.
		You left us saying you had traveled in time.
		I want to hear about that.
unidentified		Well, you'd have to ask me a specific question.
unidentified		It'd be more helpful if you asked how one would go about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How does one go about that, sir?
unidentified		Okay, for one, the Vatican and any other devices that are claimed to be mechanical and material are brutal and very primitive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe.
unidentified		And the Vatican itself is of that mode.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe.
		But again, I throw your question at you.
		How does one go about that?
unidentified		Okay.
		In order to be able to develop the consciousness to be able to travel in time, it requires much discipline.
		It is something that's held within a person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, then you're telling me, cutting into the chase, you're telling me this is an inherent ability of human beings to do in their own, it's done in your mind.
unidentified		Every single person on earth can be apprised of it, can be told how to do it, and they can fully function doing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And where did you travel in time?
unidentified		Where did I travel to?
unidentified		The economy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or when?
unidentified		The occasional.
		Yeah, how can you say it?
		It's like choosing words very carefully when you start to speak about it.
		Like I said, the universe is a space-place continuum.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, fine.
unidentified		So there is no time.
unidentified		If there is no time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You traveled then to what event?
unidentified		I've not traveled to any specific event.
		It's not that kind of discipline.
		You don't go, well, I'm going to go to, for instance, a starburst in the constellation Lyra.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Describe to me then what you felt, saw, or sensed when you did what you're talking about.
unidentified		Mostly, when you call light and sound vibration, you're more cognizant of sound than you are of light.
		Sound has a deeper vibration.
		It is, in the beginning was the word.
		This is an intuition of that.
		It is a sound vibration that carries you.
		And what you feel is absolute joy.
		You expand over time.
		And it can become like, and once again, it's not time, expand over space where what you witness are crystallic cells.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, you know, all right.
		Thank you very much.
		In my mind, then, what you did, you may think of time travel.
		It sounds like an out-of-body experience.
		You know, the joy that you described is consistent with an OBE.
		Now, whether you actually traveled in time or not and did it within your mind, I don't know.
		And for all I know, OBEs are a manner of travel in time.
		I'm not sure.
		I guess none of us are really sure about that, are we?
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, this is John and Boulder, listening on KHOW out of Denver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Denver, yes, sir.
unidentified		First, I have a question for you, Art.
unidentified		If you had a chronovisor, what would you like to see?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I think the answer to that is creation.
unidentified		Oh, cool.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think that's my answer.
		Creation.
		You know, if I were to see the crucifixion, for example, I would know that a man of flesh had been crucified.
		But I don't know that that would nail it all down for me.
		And I don't know what would short of actually seeing the manner of creation itself.
		But that might be a little much to reach for.
		That's my answer.
unidentified		Now, I want to tell you, I've got a different take on time travel than your previous caller.
		For the past 25 years, I've been teaching people a method for doing basically what you can do with a chronovisor.
		That is to remote view anything you want to see in time or space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but that's not the same as a chronovisor because a chronovisor was a machine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		exactly it was an actual machine of most likely with something like a television screen that actually allowed you to look into the past and not a discipline of the mind although that may have been some part of parcel of the whole thing but but rather an actual machine that brought pictures that could be beyond Yes, okay.
unidentified		It's not something you can take pictures of, but it is a very specific method that will awaken your abilities to remote view.
		And I have to tell you, it's not just imagination.
		You don't just get fuzzy impressions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I understand.
		Listen, the bar was passed for me on remote viewing a long time ago.
		I believe very well in remote viewing, and it seems to move through time, but it's still a mental discipline as opposed to a machine, which really does fascinate me.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Oh, I'd like to have one too, believe me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		Let me turn your question back on you.
		If you could view, but what event?
		What would you go for?
unidentified		Well, let me give you an example of what we did just recently.
unidentified		One of my favorite viewers, I said, let's look at how they built the pyramids.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Because that's something that's always fascinated me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And?
unidentified		Okay.
		What he saw was it looked like some form of alien being.
		He said they were very strange looking.
		They looked almost like large insects that moved at a very rapid, very jerky kind of way.
		They commanded these, looked like drone-like creatures that actually did the labor.
		They used these very, very long, very large magnetic bars.
		They seemed to be like, you know, huge magnets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I need to introduce your friend to a man named Zahi Awass.
		Crush your friend like a bug.
		Like one of the bugs he was talking about.
		All right, thank you very much.
		So, some sort of alien beings building the pyramid.
		Believe me, you talked to Dr. Hawass, who, by the way, has been elevated some great new position, though maintains control, active control, over the Giza area.
		He's apparently been really promoted, so he's even a much higher official now in the Egyptian government.
		You go tell him a story like that, he'll bury you, he'll put you in the sand upside down.
		You don't want to hear that stuff.
		The Egyptians built the pyramids.
		That's I, and he will take you, he took me anyway and my wife, to the place or places, I should say, not known to the public, where those who built the pyramids are themselves entombed.
		Pretty serious stuff, so you better not talk to him about bugs.
		East of the Rockies or on the air?
		Hello.
		Hello?
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's time.
unidentified		Here you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richmond, Virginia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I want to tell you about an experience I had maybe a year ago in a Walmart.
unidentified		Yeah, of all places.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		We're going to get a big new 177,000-foot square foot super Walmart here in Little Perum, Nevada, and we're all waiting for it.
		So you're telling me you can have a cool experience in a Walmart, huh?
unidentified		Well, what it was, on the surface, it looks like it could have been an ordinary happening, but it was just so unusual that you wouldn't think of it as happening every day.
		I was in there with my girlfriend, and she was looking at something.
		We were near the entrance, and I saw a woman walk in.
		She was pushing an empty shopping cart, and she had her daughter with her.
		And as they passed by me, the daughter reached her arms up over her head like she was stretching.
		And I didn't think anything of it.
		I just, you know, regular everyday happenstance.
		She walked on by, filed it away in my mind, looked up about two or three minutes later, and the exact same thing happened.
		The woman walked in, same woman, same little girl, pushing an empty shopping cart.
		And when they got to the same position I had perceived them to be before, the girl did the exact same motion.
		How strange.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's a small point.
		In most Walmarts I've been to, you don't get a shopping cart till you get inside.
		You don't push an empty one in.
unidentified		You know, you get them inside and then push them around and then you're in Walmart in Colonial Heights, and all the time I see empty shopping carts strewn all about the parking lot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so in other words, you're telling me you saw the exact same sequence occur twice.
unidentified		Exactly.
		And at first I thought, that's strange.
		Then I really thought about it and thought, even if it was the same person walking out and then walking back in, why would they do that?
		And why I would have seen them go out unless they walked all the way up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're telling me you saw like the stretch, everything the same?
unidentified		Exactly.
		And I asked my girlfriend, and she saw it, of course she missed it.
		She didn't see it.
		But every, and I thought, I just thought about this earlier tonight.
		I didn't observe anything else going on around me, any of the other people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't think to look if any of the other events Maybe there was some kind of little slip in time, huh?
unidentified		Yeah, and it wasn't like Deja Vuer.
		It's like, oh, I think I saw this before.
		It was like, I saw it the first time, and then I saw it a second time.
		I was like, I knew I'd seen it before.
		It was the same thing twice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I've got you.
		Maybe some sort of little slip in time.
		Did you consider that possibility at the time?
unidentified		That was exactly what I was thinking.
		My friends always called me weird.
		But I considered that, and I thought, you know, how strange.
		And maybe it was something like that, a little loop or something.
		And I thought, you know, was it possible that I might have been able to see myself if I'd looked around?
		But I hadn't moved from that position.
		So I don't see how I would have superimposed myself.
		So I don't know if it was just the woman and her daughter slipping through time or if all of time repeated and I was the only one that witnessed it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's the only detail of it that you happen to notice.
		That's fascinating.
		All right, sir.
unidentified		Something similar to that happened to me again maybe two or three months ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
unidentified		Right here in front of my own house, except this time I wasn't standing in one place.
		I was walking across my yard.
		And the neighbor across the street, I saw her drive into her driveway.
		She pulled in her driveway and saw her stop her car.
		And as I walked maybe about a couple hundred feet to my front door, I looked and I saw her pulling into her driveway again.
		And, of course, I jumped back out the door.
		I looked to see if I could see myself in the yard, but I couldn't.
		But it's possible she has a circular driveway.
		It's possible she could have driven around her house and then turned around and come back in, but why did she do that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, all right.
		Well, thank you very much.
		That's very interesting.
		In other words, is that coming from is that an effect that you are simply noting or noticing and a real effect produced by some external force?
		Or is it something that's happening to just you?
		I don't know.
		We understand so very little about the nature of time itself.
		And whether it's nothing but our invention, in which case, to travel through our perceptions about time might not be so difficult.
		Not if you really understood it, huh?
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		Oh, hi.
		I'm calling from the high desert.
		I listen to KFI in Los Angeles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, the Mighty 640.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And I wanted to say, with reference to a previous caller and your comment also, you don't need a machine art.
		And if you could fly, why would you want to use an airplane?
		In Tom Brown's books, and he has two series, the Nature Skills series and an autobiographical series, and he was taught by Stalking Wolf, a Lipan Apache, who'd been raised in the traditional way, completely isolated from white men.
		And this man was very gifted from youth.
		He was recognized as having wonderful gifts, and he was trained as a shaman and a scout.
		And Tom was Trained by Stalking Wolf, a fulfillment of one of Stalking Wolf's visions, and for ten years, Tom and Stalking Wolf and Stalking Wolf's grandson spent every moment they could in the piney of New Jersey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, though.
unidentified		And an incident going back in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but I want to just stop you long enough to say, look, I consider the possibility of both the physical and the metaphysical.
		I'm a hands-on kind of person.
		I've been in electronics all my life.
		And so I tend to think in terms of machines, and it may well be, that there are ways to look through this same medium, time, or whatever we want to call it, with a machine, as it is to do it metaphysically.
		So what I'm saying is both may be possible just to understand the kind of person I am and why I look at it the way I do.
		But I understand that what you're saying may be absolutely valid.
unidentified		All right.
		You can pick apart the atoms, Mr. Physicist.
		But Tom Brown is alive.
		He still teaches in New Jersey.
		And I just want to quickly relate an incident from his book that I think will be very satisfying to you.
		Sure.
		It's something you've obviously been searching for.
		Tom and the two boys, I mean, Stalking Wolf and the two boys were on an ancient Indian trail in the Pineys.
		And Tom found an artifact, and he didn't know what it was.
		And Stalking Wolf said, go back and ask.
		And because of what he had learned from Stalking Wolf, he was able to do that.
		And he witnessed at that time and in that place the ancient trail of the Indian tribe, the small Indian tribe, walking along that ancient Indian trail as they periodically did to the seacoast.
		And at the end of the line was this Indian girl, and she had this artifact on her back.
		And Tom discovered that it was a berry masher.
		But he witnessed it being there.
		And he said that in that line of Indians, there was an old Indian who he knew knew Tom was there.
		No one else in that line of Indians knew Tom was there.
		But that old Indian did.
		Now Tom is alive.
		He teaches in Asbury Park, New Jersey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what does he say about all this now?
unidentified		Now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now?
unidentified		Well, it's part of what Tom learned from Stoking Wall and what was so enriched all of the native traditional Indian cultures in this country.
		And it was the duality.
		You learn to become one with the earth and then you go through that door into the spirit world.
		And all of these things that you talk about are there for us.
		And we need, although I know you would pick it apart intellectually, but we learn it as all part of God's universe.
		And he would be a fabulous man to interview.
		He's very down to earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll look into it.
unidentified		Thank you, John.
unidentified		Thank you, Artemis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, very welcome.
		Take care.
		No, look, no, absolutely, I'll look into it.
		Nor do I dismiss either path.
		I simply tend to concentrate.
		When I hear the words time machine, I go berserk.
		And I want technical details.
		I want to understand the technical aspects of how this is done.
		It may well be that this ability, this ability to travel dimensionally or within time or within space or whatever words we care to put to all this, it may be that that's where the metaphysical and science collide.
		And I believe that eventually the metaphysical and science absolutely are going to collide.
		And so it may be that in this realm, one can, in some technical manner, either view or travel.
		And it may be that physicists back in the 50s, as we've been discussing tonight in two parallel cases, did in fact find a way to look back and or ahead in time.
		And it may also be that Native Americans and others who practice various aspects of altered states are able to travel themselves into the same area, into the same time, into the same new space or whatever.
		So down the road, that may be exactly where the scientists, the physicists, and the metaphysical folks are going to meet.
		And all of a sudden, one is going to explain the other.
		Or maybe it'll be that one will, in essence, verify the other.
		What a world, huh?
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Into the night once again.
		Open Lines.
		We are talking about mainly time travel, but it's kind of wandering all over the place.
		So, anything we want to talk about is fair game.
		There is a new picture of a new crop circle that just appeared in England.
		We've got it up on the website right this minute.
		Trust me when I tell you you want to see it.
		First item under what's new at artbell.com.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
		Hi.
unidentified		My name is David.
unidentified		I'm calling from Lafayette, Louisiana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, David.
unidentified		I was just wondering, it's a fascinating program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir, it is.
unidentified		I seem to recall that when you had Nick Bekich on, he was talking about investigating his father's plane crash in Alaska.
unidentified		And I was wondering, it seems like he said that he came across an FBI intelligence report claiming that the crash survivors were being tracked by a new technology, presumably something other than satellite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I recall that.
unidentified		I was wondering, you know, the crash site was Alaska, and that's where HAARP is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		And HAARP deals with harmonics And antennas and things like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure does.
unidentified		Maybe it's just a coincidence, but I was wondering if you thought there was a connection.
		And also, Hale Boggs, who was the other person in the plane crash, his wife went on to become the ambassador to the Vatican.
		I was wondering if that was another one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's an interesting one to toss in.
unidentified		Maybe you could ask Mel Gibson's father or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate the call, sir.
		Thank you.
		Take care.
		Oh, interesting.
		This whole thing is going to haunt me until the day I die, whatever day that is.
		It's going to haunt me.
		The whole concept of time and what it is.
		And I guess it may be that with the exception of those who have developed the technology that we heard about tonight, or those who have developed the metaphysical ability to travel, they might have some of the answers.
		Or it may well be that until we leave our physical body, we don't get these answers.
		But many of us keep trying.
		Wow, Carline, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
unidentified		This is Joe listening on KLBJ 590 Austin, Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the way to do a promo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		How are you doing tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm fine, Joe.
unidentified		I had a question and a suggestion for you.
		Okay.
		First, the suggestion, you had a guest on a very interesting one talking about the Bell Witch case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm trying to forget parts of that.
unidentified		You told how you had lost the family heirloom with your life, the family tree on it, the cane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Our cane.
		Yes, actually, what happened is it was given, of course, to my father when my parents split.
		I was actually in the Air Force when that happened.
		It was given to my father in his custody, and he lost it somehow in some way.
		And my father has now, of course, passed away, and it's missing, yes.
unidentified		Have you considered remote viewing it?
unidentified		Getting it remote viewed it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I haven't considered that, but I'd consider it right now.
		Oh, Ed.
		Ed Dames called me earlier today.
		Maybe one of the remote viewers out there would be willing to take on this task.
		It is an object, a specific object, and it would be an ideal remote viewing target.
		Good going, sir.
unidentified		And the question, when I was living in Atlanta about three or maybe even four years ago, I mailed you a copy of the 1938 or 39, I don't remember, Orson Welles paper, the Martian hoax.
unidentified		I was wondering if you ever got that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I did indeed.
unidentified		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right.
		Thank you very, very much for the call.
		Oh, now there is an interesting suggestion.
		It's true.
		My family goes way back right to the Mayflower.
		You know, you hear a lot of people say that, but it's really true in my case.
		My mom would verify that for you, and she will.
		I should have my mom back on the air.
		It's been a long time.
		Hey, mom.
		How about it?
		It goes back to the Mayflower.
		And we had a cane, a family cane, that got lost, as I just described.
		Would that be an interesting item for a remote viewer to take off after?
		You bet it would.
		So, Ed, or any other remote viewers who are listening, have a go at it.
		That cane obviously would exist.
		It was held, it was always, I can remember as a child, that cane was over our fireplace.
		For all of my childhood, it was over our fireplace.
		It was held sacredly, you know, and placed wherever we moved, and we were a military family.
		We did a lot of moving.
		It was always kept over the fireplace, and it got lost.
		So that cane exists somewhere.
		And on that cane were inscribed the name of all the Arthur Bells going back, right back to the Mayflower.
		And so that cane probably, I mean, nobody would destroy it.
		It was a beautiful thing, and it had these inscriptions in brass.
		The handle of the cane was brass, and it was all inscribed in brass.
		And my name, my father's name, was all supposed to go on there.
		I think my father's name did go on there.
		Memories of this are kind of foggy, but I believe my father's name did go on it.
		My name was to go on it.
		And that cane exists somewhere.
		It's out there somewhere.
		I'm sure nobody would turn such a beautiful thing into firewood, so it's out there somewhere.
		Remote viewers, where are you?
		Okay, first time caller line.
		You're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm okay, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm calling from Chicago, listening to WLSAM in Chicago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The monster in Chicago, yes, sir.
unidentified		Well, I wanted to run by you this experience that I've had since actually I was a child.
unidentified		And I've had some, I don't want to say psychics, but some people that are familiar with this, and I cannot for the life of me remember what they called it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what is it?
unidentified		Well, ever since I was a kid, I would get this sensation in the middle of the night that I would literally wake up to my bed shaking.
		And this happened to me quite frequently about 18 months ago when I was doing some work.
		Oddly enough, it never happens when my wife is in bed with me.
		It only happens when I'm in bed by myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what happens?
unidentified		And I literally wake up from a sound sleep to the bed shaking violently.
unidentified		And I've had some people tell me that I'm actually, I don't know if I'm subconsciously or however it happens, I'm actually being taken to a different place and time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me ask you this.
		Let me ask you this.
		When you wake up, number one, are you sure you're awake?
unidentified		Yeah, my wife asked me that same question.
unidentified		I'm absolutely positive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and so then you're also absolutely positive that your bed actually physically, when you say shaking, you mean just like shaking or?
unidentified		Yeah, not like exorcist shaking where the thing is levitating, but I mean to the point where it's like, you know, the headboard's hitting the wall.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's shaking.
unidentified		And, you know, and it lasts long enough that I'm awake and I wake up and I'm conscious of the fact that the bed is shaking.
		And at one point it Was happening so much that I was like, oh, for crying out loud, not again.
		And it would shake for, I don't know, maybe five seconds or five to ten seconds after I would wake up.
		And so, anyway, I don't know what was causing it, but I do get deja vu all the time.
		I mean, I'm constantly in kind of a deja vu state where something will happen, and I don't, I can't explain why I know where I've been or what I've, you know, I'm seeing it again for another time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Deja vu may be a kind of time travel.
		In other words, when you have an experience, and a deja vu is simply suddenly feeling as though you've been in the room before, you've done whatever you're doing before, that's deja vu.
		You've exactly done it before.
		There are those who would say that it is a kind of time travel in the sense that you are living an experience in this life that you have experienced in some other life and subconsciously at a level just below current consciousness.
		You know you've done that before because you have done that before.
		Follow me.
		A wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		This is Jeremy from Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Jeremy.
unidentified		Yeah, I was calling, and I saw the show the other night, and I saw the rabbit on the creature thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you talking about what I've got up on the website?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The creature?
unidentified		Yeah, I know exactly what that is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what do you think that is?
unidentified		It's a wolf.
		They're like parasites that get on rabbits in the summertime.
		They get on cottontail rabbits.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But hold on a sec.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would this crawl out of a bullet hole?
unidentified		Well, they get in there, and I know they get out.
		I've seen them a thousand times.
		We've killed all kinds of rabbits that have them all over them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you've seen them crawl out of bullet holes?
unidentified		Well, no, but we've skinned the rabbits and seen them all over the rabbits.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yuck.
		Well, that's all I have to say, is yuck.
		I mean, when I shoot something, I don't want to see anything crawl out of the hole at all.
unidentified		It gets pretty rough, I guess, but I mean...
unidentified		Sometimes in the summertimes, like from May to about June, you don't really shoot the cottontails because they got them all over them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yuck.
		All right, sir.
		Thank you very much.
		If that's what it is, that's what it is.
		I don't know.
		All I know is if I shoot something, I damn well don't want to see anything living, particularly with big teeth crawling out of the bullet hole.
		God.
		On the first time caller line, you are on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		Is it Arbel?
		That's me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off.
		Are you?
		I'll wait while you turn it off.
unidentified		Yeah, it's off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Calgary, Alberta.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Calgary, Alberta.
		All right, very good.
		What's your first name?
unidentified		Richie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richie, what's on your mind?
unidentified		Are you still talking about that in time travel?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we're talking about, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you know?
unidentified		I basically believe in that.
unidentified		Do you know those stories about that dude who invented that bike travel machine?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The What Now machine?
unidentified		He's basically a famous author who wrote a story about the time machine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there was H.G. Wells.
unidentified		Yeah, H.G. Wells.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, what about him?
unidentified		Do you think that would be a possibility?
unidentified		His machine?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you mean to have a machine H.G. Wells style?
unidentified		Yeah, there you go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay, Richie.
unidentified		Do you think his story is?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do I think it could be?
		Yes, of course I think it could be.
		Of course I think it could be, Richie.
		Yes, that's what I've been talking about all night with this chronovisor and or even a machine like the H.G. Wells machine.
		For all we know, physical time travel absolutely is possible.
		Now, when you talk to today's modern theoretical physicists, they're going to tell you that they too believe it's possible, but that would take energy or an amount of energy that a modern man cannot amass.
		It's kind of an interesting road that we're going down right now.
		In other words, modern theoretical physicists are beginning to, physicists are beginning to see how time travel can occur.
		They're simply saying the limitation that we've got right now, the reason we can't do it is because we don't have enough energy.
		But they talk of black holes and event horizons and wormholes and all that sort of thing.
		So while once mainstream science was laughing at time travel, it is not now.
		It is, in fact, is saying it's probably possible, but we just don't have enough energy.
		Well, that's a pretty big leap, I would say, from laughing at it to, yes, we now think it's possible.
		And then it's just one more leap to, hey, guess what?
		Easter the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		Oh, sorry about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll wait.
unidentified		I can do better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, where are you, sir?
unidentified		I am in Orlando, Florida.
unidentified		Winter Garden, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Very good.
		Proceed.
unidentified		Oh, hey, my name's Gilbert, and I'm in Winter Garden, Florida.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got that.
unidentified		This is Art Bell, right?
		Yes, yes, yes.
		Right, right number then.
		I had a strange experience with time when I was a child.
		It lasted a child and almost in my teen years.
		Man, my hand starts shaking when I talk about this.
		I haven't talked about it in so long.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I want to preface it with, I'm a born-again Christian, an absolute believer.
		And what would happen is it started when I was about eight years old.
		I got my first motorcycle at 10 years old.
		And I remember it must have been around eight or nine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you say motorcycle?
unidentified		Yeah, I got it when I was 10 years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're telling me your mama that you have a motorcycle at 10?
unidentified		Actually, I bought it myself.
		I worked summers and actually bought a brand new one by the time I was 13.
		I bought my third one when I was 13 and was racing by the time I was 20.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gosh.
unidentified		But I never had a bad wreck, you know, that never got hurt and even raced up until I was 33 and four-wheelers and stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, okay, so.
unidentified		But anyway, I want to prefix it about just the born-again aspect about my honesty and the belief in my honesty.
		But what would happen, and things would speed up, and that's the best way I can describe it.
		And I used to, my father used to, very early on, he was into weights and measures and time, and he trained me how to be able to count very specifically seconds to the minute to where I could do it.
		I would practice it on a stopwatch or secondhand and be very accurate to the minute, you know, to where if I didn't look, when I flicked the watch at 60 seconds, I'd be right at a minute.
		And things would start speeding up.
		Now, this was I'm 42 now.
		This was in 1967, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, something like that, about 45 years.
		And things would speed up.
		And at first, I tell you, I thought I was losing my mind or something, and I didn't know what was going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I haven't figured out yet what you mean by speeding up.
unidentified		Okay, to this point, I don't know how fast a video recorder, per se, when you speed it up, is played on Fast Forward and you watch a video on Fast Forward pertained to watching it regularly.
unidentified		You mean that is what everything around me, and it was scary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was like seeing a VCR in Fast Forward is what you're saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's why the world looked to you.
unidentified		It was life, yes.
		It would happen.
		I would feel a tingling, almost a feverish sensation come to me, and I would know it was about to happen.
		And I always wore a watch as a child, and I started, the first time it happened even, I started looking at my watch and check the second hand.
		And very, as soon as it would look, the second hand would hit at the top, you know, at 12 o'clock, I would flip the watch over and start counting.
		And at 60 seconds, would come back around.
		And I mean, it was totally off speed.
		It wasn't even near.
		So I didn't know if I was early.
		I didn't know if I was late.
		I didn't know what was happening, okay?
		So then I turned it over and counted and watched it.
		and it's moving so fast when i counted the fifteen seconds each time fourteen fifteen seconds it was going to a minute i don't know what Two, three times a week.
		And I tried to explain it to a few people.
		And the only person that ever, ever came close to somewhat describing it was a Korean doctor I once went to for migraines.
		And he said, have you ever had any weird symptoms other than this?
		Because we can't explain your migraines.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you explained that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You told him about that.
unidentified		Well, and I did.
		And he said, did you have migraines after this?
		And I said, always, always, within a day or so.
		And he said, that was some type of premonition that you're having a migraine.
		Now, I don't know.
		That doesn't make any sense to me.
		But I would always have migraines sometime within a 24-hour period after that.
		And I tell you, I'm shaking right now talking about this, but it stopped when I was about 12 or 13 years old, thank God, and thank Jesus for whatever.
		Stopped it because I probably would have lost it in today's world as fast things are moving today.
		It was a rather slow world in the 60s and 70s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's already like compared to today.
		That's right.
		It's like fast forward today.
unidentified		And again, I've never heard any type of experience like this.
		I've listened to you for several years, and I really enjoy you.
		So I think some of it's pretty wacky, but I still enjoy it.
		And, you know, I just, at the same time, one other thing was going on.
		I was having reoccurring dreams of the best I could say would be a world war.
		And this country was very involved, and not only that, it was in this country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I hope you're wrong about that one.
unidentified		Well, I was...
unidentified		Well, the word says that my sons and daughters will prophecy, and my old man will see dreams and visions, and my maidservants and menservants will prophesy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
		I got to school.
		We're at the top of the hour, but I appreciate the call.
		So he saw the world at times as though it was in fast forward.
		He could tell the man was being honest.
		He didn't have to tell me he was born again, Christian.
		He was being honest.
		That's what he saw, like a VTR running in fast forward.
		Anybody else out there?
unidentified		Daddy was a cop On the east side of Chicago Back in the USA Back in the bad old days Music In the heat of a night.
		Talk about it.
		In the talk of a Chicago dad.
		When I'm in the mouth of bone, try to make that town his own.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and he called his day to war Once again, we go into the night sky.
		Open lines.
		First time caller line.
		You're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am just Spiffy.
		Thank you.
		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Whittier, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And my name's Sil.
		Yes.
		And I have kind of a different outlook on this time travel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fire away.
unidentified		All right.
		Well, I've always said to people that I've traveled through time, and they kind of laugh.
		But when an earlier caller was talking in all this scientific term, and he mentioned sound waves, something hit me.
		I was standing at work and a song came on.
		And we all know we do this, you know, a song will come on and a flashback will kind of happen to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		And it will invoke a lot of, you know, really detailed memory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		So I'm standing there at work and this song that I hadn't heard for like 15 years came on and I was no longer at my work.
		I was in my bedroom as a 14-year-old, you know, listening to the song for the first time.
		I could no longer, yeah, like I said, I could no longer see my work.
		Everything was the room I was in, the situation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was all gone.
unidentified		Yeah, everything was gone.
		I was standing there and trying to, you know, you try to be, I work in customer service.
		These kind of things can't happen.
		You know what I mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I think they've happened to a number of customer service people that I've been talking to.
unidentified		Oh, really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's like they go away.
unidentified		Well, I've talked to people that doesn't, you know, they don't seem like they have anything there, which is a totally different thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, listen, I understand what you're saying, but you're saying that the room went away, the senses, the smell.
unidentified		Well, everything about it came back.
		Wow.
		And it was so, I mean, it was just so real.
		But then I started to think about it a little bit more.
		And when I was younger, around that age, I would have always a sense of someone watching me.
		So I'm thinking there might be a connection to the fact that this event happens now where I flash back to being 14.
		Yet I've always been sensitive to spirit types all my life.
		So that maybe when I was thinking that someone was watching me, it's just me flashing back now to back then.
		And I didn't actually sense myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, I'm with you all the way.
		I've had it partially happen to me.
		It still partially happens to me.
		There is something about sound, and there is, thank you, something about music.
		It's happened to me.
		As you well know, I'm a serious person about my music.
		I pick my music and my bumper music, all the music you hear me.
		I pick that personally.
		And, you know, there's reasons for that.
		I mean, there's reasons why I play certain music at certain times that you might think you know, but I can guarantee you I generally have a reason for what I'm playing.
		Having said that, it goes a little deeper, not quite as far as that young lady just took it.
		But there are records that I can play, and I can't say that my present circumstance, my present reality changes.
		But certainly in my mind, and I'm sure this is true of many of you, you can hear a song, and it's like a flashback.
		It's just like an acid flashback.
unidentified		Boom!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're in a different place in time in your mind.
		Now, it has never, for me, manifested itself with my present reality disappearing entirely, but it has taken me on that trip.
		And sound in the form of music can absolutely do that to you.
		It causes a little switch in your brain somewhere in there to get thrown.
		And the feel and the memories of the time come rushing back, almost unbidden.
		They just come rushing back.
		So I've gone that far, but I've never gone quite over the cliff, the edge, that that young lady did with the present reality actually disappearing.
		I'm not saying I wouldn't like to experience it.
		I would.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		My name is Eric from Ark City, Kansas, listening to you on KFH 98.7 FM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I heard about the Crop Circle?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, by the way, Mark in Port Washington, Wisconsin says, hey, Ark, I just checked out the new Crop Circle pic.
		First thing came to my mind was the sun with huge flares coming off it.
		Now, we've had these incredible flares lately, and this man connects it to sun flares.
		My wife looked at it and saw a rose.
		I take it you've seen the picture, right?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Incredible or what?
unidentified		It's pretty awesome.
		Yeah.
		basically i mean i'm not i don't want to disprove it or anything i mean i believe in if Okay.
		Well, basically, when I heard that, I remembered like two or three weeks ago off of a site that I won't name on the Internet.
		And I don't know if you've heard of a movie coming out in, I don't know, a few weeks called Signs with Marketing.
		Okay.
		Well, I remember reading it, and I printed it off, and I don't know if I'm allowed to read off what it says or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I don't care if I'm sorry.
unidentified		Okay.
		It says basically, how's this for innovative marketing techniques?
		Disney is planning to create crop circles around the world as part of his advertising campaign for the movie Signs.
		Disney source told the UK-based website, we will carve out crop circles at unnamed sites.
		The movie studio did not disclose how it will publicly announce which crop circles are the ones created by Disney and which are supposedly real or when its marketing campaign will begin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be serious marketing, all right.
		But that does not affect the mystery of the crop circles because they've been going on before signs was the gleam in any movie producers, whatever, wherever they get their gleam.
		You follow me?
		They've been going on for a long time now.
unidentified		I just thought possibly it could be one of those, could not.
unidentified		Does that look like a Disney crop circle to me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a happy little crop circle.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I just thought I'd drop that at you.
		He didn't let you have it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, take care.
		I don't know if Disney's doing that or not.
		I don't know.
		Maybe we'll all try and pick out the Disney crop circles if they're really doing that this year.
		I don't think that's what we have here.
		I kind of like what Mark in Wisconsin had to say about this crop circle.
		That if you look at it carefully, it does perhaps seem reminiscent of some of the recent sunflares.
		I don't know.
		It's all stabbing in the dark, isn't it, since we don't really know?
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Yes, sir, you're on the air.
unidentified		This is Robert from New Jersey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Robert, time has come.
		Welcome.
		Hey, how are you?
		Just fine.
unidentified		What you are asking is about a physical time machine that is built with nuts and bolts and the traditional methods, and yes, they do exist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute.
		You said yes, they do exist.
		Again, that's a very statement of fact.
		How do You know that?
unidentified		I know for a fact because I've seen and worked on them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've seen and worked on them?
unidentified		What you are asking about, everything is based on the theory of Tesla.
		Yes, Tesla had these theories.
		He was by far in advance of Einstein.
		The first time the Americans tried this was the Philadelphia experiment.
		Tesla had backed out by that point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, the Philadelphia experiment was not an experiment about time travel.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was an attempt to make a U.S. ship visible.
		That's right.
		Now, the effects, however, may, in fact, involve time travel.
		No question about that.
unidentified		Everything was based on the work of Tesla.
		You're talking about frequency and laser light, where the speeds have to...
		Light has to reach startling speeds and frequencies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're claiming you've worked on one of these machines?
unidentified		I can tell you I've seen them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well then tell me where.
unidentified		There is one in the New York area, and the Nazis were working on time travel before and during World War II.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you know, I've heard that too.
unidentified		Those were the two experiences.
unidentified		The Soviets also tried, but failed miserably.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you tell me how you got access to see such a thing?
unidentified		I know no more than what I'm telling you now.
unidentified		But most of the people that have gone through the portals to travel have never come back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		So the vast majority, what you are asking, the vast majority of people that have gone through those portals, probably like the two people that you said who were working on these things, where they would have gotten the energy and the parts.
		Because time is a third dimension concept.
		It does not exist in any other dimension.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know how long you've been listening to my program, but Madman Markham was in fact modulating the field he created with a laser.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you know that?
unidentified		Yes, and I heard that tonight.
unidentified		you didn't know that what you want Most of his writings that were confiscated later on have never been seen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		So he had a plan to light up the world with electricity as long as it would be free forever for humanity from his Tesla World Tower, which never came to fruition because there was no money in it, and he was squashed.
		But he did talk about these things.
		So all of his things that you are asking are based on his work.
		Number two, when you go through the portal, you don't know where you're going to actually wind up.
		You have rough estimates.
		You don't know exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How rough?
unidentified		Sometimes days, weeks, or years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you could miss your destination in time by days, weeks, or even years.
unidentified		Yes.
		So what you're asking about is that most of these people have gone through, have never come back.
		Number two.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the ones that I've experienced, that I've been talking to about time travel, have not come back.
		And you're telling me that's a truth of time travel?
		know that to be a truth?
unidentified		It depends what kind of machine you're using.
		Some are one-way.
		Others you can get back.
		But you make the mistake of assuming that once you're there, it's going to be so easy.
		You're going back in time, different languages, different clothing, different customs.
		There are universal laws about interference in these things that cannot be broken.
		Well, you make the assumption that the government and other people make who want to control destinies, that things can be changed.
		There are certain very small things that can be changed, but major things cannot be changed.
		Time flows forward as it flows backwards.
		So in reality, there is really no future and no past, but just the eternal present.
		So you are asking various questions.
		If you would ask me more detailed questions, I could give you more detailed answers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		well you said there's really no future and past but just a an eternal president is ever flowing forward and backward then then there is there is Let me just tell you this.
unidentified		What you are asking is based on something called sacred geometry.
		Bruce R. Cathy did work on this.
		There were other people who have done work on this.
		Tesla, and there were a few others.
		You can travel back 2,500,000 years in time before you hit a time wall.
		You can travel up to 2012, and you cannot go beyond that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's another wall at 2012?
unidentified		The end of the Mayan calendar.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any detail with regard to particularly the future that you can tell me?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Other than the wall, I mean, it sounds like it all ends then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Otherwise, between now and 2012.
unidentified		Let me answer some questions for you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go.
unidentified		You go back to 2,500,000 years ago.
		That is the end of Lemuria.
		You can go forward to 2012.
		There was a cataclysm on the planet 2,500,000 years ago that had to do with the sliding into a new time dimension that we are in now.
		It was a cataclysm at the end of a Lemurian civilization, which had lasted about 3 million years.
		So if you were to go back, if you could traverse that wall, which you cannot, it's a different race.
		It's actually a different type of time and a different type of dimension.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it another cataclysm at 2012?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do we know anything of the nature?
unidentified		2012 is a positive date.
		Krishna gave that date, Buddha gave that date, and Christ gave that date.
		The main calling gives the date because we're going into fourth dimension.
		There is no more time in fourth Dimension.
		It will mean it will be what Krishna talked about, the end of Kali Yuga.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And probably the Christians regard as the Lord coming back, and, you know, Christians all getting sucked up like in a vacuum.
		Yeah, okay.
		Well, there is somebody who claims to know that a machine exists among other places in New York State.
		Yeah, I've been wondering a lot about 2012.
		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on the air.
		Good morning.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello.
unidentified		Oh, hi, my goodness, thank you.
		This is Sebra in Kent, Washington.
		Yes.
		And what I wanted to talk about is, okay, today at work, on my lunch, a friend and I saw out of nowhere a white feather come floating down from the sky.
		And she goes over and she catches it, and we're talking, you know, kind of odd, maybe somebody dropped it flying by.
		And another one comes down, which is a black one.
		And as we're standing there, more and more of these feathers keep dropping.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, jeez.
unidentified		They're not coming, and it went on for 15, 20 minutes.
		And we are looking out like over the top of the building, trying to see if they might be drifting down over that way.
		We're trying to see if they're coming from trees, but there aren't trees close enough that they'd be coming out of there.
		Black ones and white ones.
		Those are the only two colors that were.
		Oh, go ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me throw this in.
		I'm getting email reports, and I'm getting reports from all over the West right now, the most disconcerting reports I've ever heard.
		People are calling me and telling me birds are dying.
		Birds are dying in large numbers, and I'm trying to determine what to do with these reports.
		I have no idea.
		I wonder if what you're talking about is connected.
unidentified		That's part of the reason why I called.
		Oh, brother.
		And we couldn't find any source for them whatsoever.
		There was no gore.
		There was no blood.
		No broken quills.
		Nothing.
		Just these black and white feathers for about 15, 20 minutes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, like hundreds of them?
unidentified		I would say what I could count was probably between 50 and 100.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on a sec, all right?
		By the way, Ian Gumm, who sings this song, sent me an email the other day.
		Maybe we'll have him on.
		I'm Mark Bummer.
unidentified		Just be honest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All the way from Great Britain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just kind of like the words, this thing.
unidentified		Listening to the strangest stories Wondering where it all went wrong For so long For so long But hold on, hold on, hold on To what you got Hold on, hold on A frequent worry I have is the following.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know that a lot of you think that a lot of what we talk about is crazy stuff, and it is, you know, it really is.
		The problem with it is that a lot of what we've talked about on this program, while initially people label it as crazy a year or two or three years downline, proves to be exactly what's going on.
		It's just that you hear such a leading edge here that it sounds implausible, impossible, even silly or laughable.
		But then in two or three years, we're all talking about it.
		That's the problem.
		When you chuckle and laugh and say, whoa, crazy stuff on that program, crazy today, true tomorrow.
		You're back on the air again up in Washington.
		So you see, I've been getting all these emails and all these contacts about dying birds.
		And so then hearing about feathers, black and white feathers dropping from the air out of nowhere, that's a troublesome thing for me.
unidentified		Yeah, it was really kind of creepy.
		I keep having to kick my mother out, you know, because she wants to listen to the radio in here, and I tell her no.
		So she's huddling in the back room, and she's pointed out.
		No, actually not, mom.
		She's the one that got me addicted to you.
		Say hi, mom.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Say hi, mom.
unidentified		What she pointed out is that I guess I was saying black and white feathers, but it's actually specifically black feathers and white feathers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
unidentified		And the two that I have that I brought home, I have one that's probably, the white one is probably about seven inches long and the black one is maybe five and a half.
		It's not like down.
		It's not, you know, these are from all over different parts of the bird.
		There are no, there was no blood anywhere.
		There were no, you know, pieces.
		Nothing.
		The only thing that came was those feathers.
		And three times in my life, I've been flown, I guess, cruised, you could say, by owls, just out of nowhere.
		Once was before, once was when I moved back up here from Oregon.
		Once was just before we got evicted.
		Oh, no, those are the only two I can think of.
		So then I see this, and this really kind of tripped me out after those kind of close experiences there.
		I didn't know if you would have thoughts or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have thoughts, and thank you.
		I don't know.
		My thoughts are that maybe we're on to something here that, if true, obviously would be really bad.
		When I begin to get a lot of email and a lot of communication on something as odd as this, I pull back a little bit and I sort of wait and see if it seems real or whether there's a piling on going on out there or whether it's a real phenomena we're talking about.
		And I'm at that stage with all the communication on this subject that I've been getting.
		I can't yet tell you that I understand what's going on, but I can tell you that before this call, I was closely following this story in terms of how much communication I'm getting on it.
		It's a worrisome amount, that I'll tell you.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		How you doing?
unidentified		This is Don from Georgia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Georgia, all right.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		I just wanted to lay an experience.
		I had, I guess, about six years ago.
		I was working a job where I was working from six in the evening to six in the morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My kind of job.
unidentified		Well, I usually got home around 6.30, and I usually did the same thing when I walked through the door I will put my lunch container on the counter go to the front door and turn the porch light off to go in and kiss my wife and take my shower the routine yeah routine just about every day and this particular morning when I got home I went through the routine and I went to go kiss my wife and she wasn't there so I went to the den and she was behind the door and
		She looked very frightened.
		I liked what was wrong with her.
		She said, you were here 30 minutes ago.
		Oh, really?
		The thing with it is, she heard me come through the door, and she heard the lunch container hit the counter.
		And she waited a while, and I didn't show up in the bedroom, so she walked around the house looking for me and called my name.
		And they're frightened because I wasn't there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then you're telling me 30 minutes later, you came home for what you considered to be the first time, and she's totally freaked out behind the door.
unidentified		That's correct.
		It paused me for a while, but the strange thing happened sometime.
		It was a few months this year.
		Her and some of her teacher friends went to see the movie Vanilla Sky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I had the girls at home.
		We were looking at TV, and just watching TV, waiting for her to get back.
		And all of a sudden, I heard her call my name from the other side of the house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
unidentified		And the strangest thing, my girls heard it, too, and they both looked at me.
		And they said, Dad, is a mom out eating dinner with our teacher friends?
		And I said, Yeah.
		And she said, Well, I heard her call your name.
		And I don't want them to get frightened, so I said, Well, you might have been hearing things, but I heard it.
		It was clear, loud and clear.
		As a matter of fact, I almost responded to it.
		So I walked to the other side of the house because I figured that something must be wrong for her to call my name like that.
		Yeah.
		And I didn't feel anything.
		I didn't feel any bad vibrations at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did she have anything to say when she got home?
unidentified		When she came home, I met her in the garage.
		I wanted to discuss that.
		There'd be no way from the kids.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
unidentified		What was she doing around 825?
unidentified		Because that's when it happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And she said, Well, they were in the restaurant, and they were discussing the movie Vanilla Sky.
		And I hadn't seen the movie, but it was like some kind of spiritual thing there or whatever.
		And they said, Let's do this thing where we can think about our loved ones and see if they can feel us.
		That's where I'll be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's some story.
		Yes, it is.
		There's so much more than we understand, isn't there?
unidentified		Sure is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it's all around us, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Oh, thanks a lot, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, take care.
		There's so much more that we just don't understand.
		The kind of thing that is discussed on this program.
		And I'm comfortable, you know, with the fact that a lot of people ridicule and a lot of people laugh, and that's fine.
		But time after time, I've been here enough years now, that time after time, I've seen the laughable become, become the reality so if you want to hear what's discussed nowhere else at least some good percentage of which has uh uh the possibility of becoming absolute reality this would be the place and why it's not done in more places I don't know.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
		This is Tim.
		I'm calling from Illinois, listening on WLAC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		In the chronovisor, you made the statement that you could see anywhere from the present on back into the past.
unidentified		Was it correct?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, it went further than that.
		From the investigative journalist who wrote the book, we found out they saw into the future as well.
		Bearing in mind, this is a priest.
		Bearing in mind, this is a man who was adept at physics and was consulting with others who claimed that he also saw into the future.
		Just experimentally, they saw a bank robbery.
		They reported it to the police before it happened, and they stopped it.
		So, past and future.
unidentified		Well, if you could see on a specific person or location a second into the past or the present, wouldn't that be the ultimate in surveillance?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, of course.
		The ultimate in surveillance.
		Well, you've got to wonder, sir, if our government had a time machine or access to one and saw what happened on 9-11, why did it happen?
unidentified		Yeah.
		And you said it could destroy, or the Vatican made the statement of do evil.
		I mean, if you talk, you know, Big Brother, if everyone could be watched with no equipment except from a central location, any specific person or location, at times in the past or present, anytime they wanted to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Father Ernetti warned, quote, that the machine can produce universal tragedy.
		His words.
		Universal tragedy.
		Now, what do you think he meant by that?
unidentified		There's a lot of possibilities about how it could create tragedy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Universal tragedy.
		That's a big word.
		Universal tragedy.
		That implies to me that you could change something that would result in everything that we know to be universally, suddenly untrue or changed.
unidentified		Right.
		Who was the guest that died?
		He had the novelty theory Terrence McKenna.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Terrence McKenna.
unidentified		Yeah, I remember his 2012 when one of his theories was that's when everything happens at once, all time training travelers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that is, in fact, what Terrence said.
		You're absolutely right.
		Very good.
		I very much appreciate the call, sir.
		Thank you.
		That's what Terrence said.
		Terrence McKenna.
		Terrence McKenna.
		Oh, Terrence.
		I wish he were still here.
		Terrence McKenna is one of the brilliant minds of our time.
		Terrence McKenna was an amazing.
		you know what?
		I really should go back and ask the network to replay one of the McKenna shows for the modern audience that hasn't heard it.
		You know, it's been some years now and uh Terence did some programs that were really inspiring.
		I mean absolutely inspiring.
		He had a brilliant mind.
		I should go back also and interview Terence's brother.
		But I really should bring one of those programs forward and replay it.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Oh, it doesn't make a noise.
		Your electronics are so good.
		You don't hear that sudden noise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's called The Next Step.
unidentified		Oh, boy.
		Okay, an honor and a pleasure, and thank you very much for your show.
		It really helped my mental state quite a bit when I had a very strange experience about vortexes.
		What happened is I was walking my old collie dog, and it was via railroad tracks, and it was around dusk.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I noticed that the dog was about 15, 20 feet ahead of me, and she veered off to the side.
		And, you know, the dogs walk with their nose straight to the ground.
		I would always laugh and say, poor thing, if we ever took her out in the woods, she'd walk right into a bear without seeing it.
		And I noticed sort of like the air seemed to be almost like jelly, and it started like, you know, like it thickened, and then it was sort of circular.
		And I see these, I said, I'm not going to, I must be imagining this.
		So I walked past, but I did walk to the side like the dog did.
		What I saw was, it looked like horse flies making a circular motion like a whirlpool and going straight into the ground.
		I said, oh no, I've got to be seeing bumblebees coming back because it's dark.
		But these things were way too big to be bumblebees.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This was along with, you said the sky turned to jelly.
unidentified		The sky, no, just the area around their art.
		Your vision became like beyond that, the air seemed to thicken in that general area, almost like jelly-like.
		You see, it was kind of in New Orleans, we have a lot of fog and humidity.
		And when it gets dusk, if the humidity is high like that, and you have fog row come in, and it becomes very misty.
		But watching these, you know, these, I guess you would call them insects, but they were silent.
		You can usually hear a bumblebee even if it's flying slowly.
		And like I said, they were bigger than those big black horse flies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And these things were circling?
unidentified		They were circling and going into the ground.
		In other words, the circle was kind of wide, and there weren't millions of them.
		There were maybe 30 or 40 of them that I could think of.
		But something like this happens to you, and you're trying to say, am I going nuts or what?
		And it's got to be bumblebees because they nest in the ground.
		I keep telling myself that.
		And then by the time I get home, I said, you know, I said, I'm either cracking up or I've seen something horrible and evil or whatever.
		What is this?
		Now, you had a guest on, an elderly man who wrote a book.
		I think the thing was only about $12.
		And this was about eight or ten years ago.
		And he spoke of vortexes, and he said he and his wife used to go through them and visit the Yeti.
		And one of the things that surprised you when he mentioned that this was known by one of the president, forget the president, in 1924, was not Harding.
		It was, I think, Coolidge.
		And it surprised you.
		He said, Coolidge knows about the, because somehow he tied it into UFOs.
		And you said, you know that Coolidge, you've heard that, because it was evidently something that hadn't come out very much.
		And you knew about it, and you were surprised that this elderly man knew about it.
		Anyway, he's on this, this evidently is some sort of a time travel, and if it hadn't been for hearing that program and remembering it, Art, I was on my knees praying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know what?
		I'm sorry to interrupt you, sir, but you know what?
		I don't remember the program you're talking about.
		So we may really be dealing with time travel here.
		I can't remember.
unidentified		That program was about eight to ten years ago, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, sure, I was doing them then.
unidentified		Hopefully, maybe if I can ever go through my notes, maybe I can find it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's see if anybody else remembers the program you were talking about.
unidentified		He was an elderly man.
		Another thing he said that you couldn't use, he had no fillings in his teeth.
		He said, to get through this vortex, you could not have metal on you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I swear.
		All right, thank you.
		You know, I don't remember that program.
		Now, I've done a lot of programs, thousands and thousands of programs.
		So maybe it just, you know, flicked out of my memory, but those kind of things usually don't.
unidentified		Hmm.
		Hmm.
		Hehehehe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Doug.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in Calgary, Alberta.
unidentified		My name is Doug.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Doug.
unidentified		And I'd like to sort of put forward a little bit of a thought for your listeners to think about.
		Nature itself is continuous.
		You get sound waves, you get light waves.
		You bet.
		The only breaks that there are within these waves are because we don't have, let's say, instruments to measure them yet.
		We didn't know that microwaves existed until we had something that could detect them.
		And then that filled In that gap.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's absolutely correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I mean, they were all around us, and until we realized their presence and invented something ultimately to produce them, yeah, we have no idea.
unidentified		That's right.
		Now, we take a couple of flashlights, we shine them at a wall, and when they overlap, they increase the brightness of that light.
		Correct.
		And let me just back up a little bit.
		You may be aware that some manufacturing plants now they have computers that generate a counter wave, if you will, to deaden the noise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Noise canceling, it's called, yes.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And so now we shine a couple of flashlights at a wall.
		They get brighter.
		Now, if we take those lights, we pass them through a prism, so it splits the light up into its various components through minute movement.
		We can get it so that the same colors, when shined at each other, can actually form a dark spot.
		Now, I'm starting to think what my belief is, is that time is a wave.
		And that if we could discover that wave, produce a counter wave, that we could actually form a dark spot that would allow you to move in, or like back and forth across time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That could be, sir.
		Listen, we are out of time.
		My program's ending.
		Nothing I can do about that.
unidentified		That's okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, listen, I appreciate your theory.
		And so from our neighbor to the north, you get to tell everybody good night tonight, all right?
		Okay.
unidentified		Everyone have a good evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's one way to, that's the Canadian way to do it.
		Everybody have a good evening.
		Eh?
		All right, everybody.
		I'll be back Monday night, Tuesday morning.
		I hope you have a wonderful weekend.
		I'm certainly planning on it.
		Bonnie Crystal and the company are here right now, and Jessica's with her, and we're going to be doing some fascinating work in electronics over the weekend.
		So if I don't fry myself, I'll see you Monday.

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