Dr. Steven M. Greer alleges a shadowy U.S. government group has spent decades staging UFO hoaxes—like simulated abductions and satellite attacks—to justify over $1T in annual military spending while controlling public perception, citing 1953 Canadian Air Force witness Fred Trellfell’s teleportation claims and Roscoe Hillenkoetter’s 1960 warning. Meanwhile, Neal Sibley details the Bell Witch’s 1817–1821 haunting of Tennessee’s Bell family, where the entity mimicked voices, poisoned John Bell, and exposed his molestation of daughter Betsy via an 1841 sealed manuscript. Sibley’s research, including demonic encounters like a glowing light and a flat tire with an inexplicable ratchet, suggests supernatural forces exploit fear—whether through government disinformation or malevolent spirits—underscoring the need for skepticism and biblical discernment in both realms. [Automatically generated summary]
I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be across this great land of ours, at whatever time it is where you are.
It could even be, it could certainly be morning, afternoon, or evening as we cover the whole world one way or the other with way over 500 affiliates now.
What a monster.
It's called Coast to Coast AM, and I'm Mark Bell, and I'm happy to be here.
And we've got a full night tonight.
Dr. Stephen Greer wrote Cosmic Deception, Let the Citizen Beware.
It came to me over the internet, and I snatched it up, put it up last week, and tonight, Dr. Greer is here to tell you all about it.
Assuming that safely, I think, that all of you don't have computers, if you're wondering what he means by citizen beware, you're going to know in a few minutes.
And then in the next hour, Neil Sibley on the Bell Witch.
Oh, what a story there is to tell there.
And some photographs.
Now, I want to first say today is my birthday.
And I'm 57 years old, young, whatever.
I don't know.
I've had mixed feelings about it all day today, but it's my birthday.
So I will accept, say thank you.
Birthday, thank you all very much.
And we'll hope for 58.
I'll tell you something.
You need to go to my website.
Look at my webcam shot.
To the ham operators out there, you will know what I am holding in my hand.
For non-hams, you probably won't.
Suffice it to say that my network, consisting of zillions of people, Craig Kitchen, thank you, Craig, Alan Corbett, thank you, Alan.
All the Premier.
Thank you, Premier.
Thank you, everybody in Oregon.
This is the coolest gift anybody could ever hope to have.
So the hams will understand what I just received.
The others, suffice to say, it's a dream machine I'm holding in my hand.
Actually, it's a box from the dream machine's already on the air.
So, yes, my birthday.
And then, of course, the Australian teleportation story.
Oh, my God, folks.
Guess what?
The Australians have teleported a laser beam.
Now, while it's a long way from teleporting a human being or even a solid object, it is incredible what they've done.
They've sent a laser beam, deconstructed it, and reconstructed it across the lab.
Now, they say they could do this over a great distance, and eventually one day, just like Star Trek, this may be the first or is it the second step, a big step toward that direction.
In a moment, Dr. Stephen Greer, he used to be, was an emergency room physician, chairman of the Department of Emergency Medicine at Caldwell Memorial Hospital.
He is founder of the director for the Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence, the Disclosure Project, and most recently, Space Energy Access Systems.
You've heard Dr. Greer here, I think, many times before.
I hope so.
If not, then you're going to have to listen very closely to what's coming up.
Dr. Greer has written Cosmic Deception, Let the Citizen Beware.
And so, without taking any more time, we'll take care of Biz and come right back to Dr. Greer.
And if you didn't get a chance to read it or you just want to know what he means, then don't touch that dial.
Well, I guess you'd call this, I don't know, like a white paper, maybe.
Dr. Greer, Cosmic Deception, Let the Citizen Beware.
And, of course, we've been doing these for many years for people in the Pentagon and other places.
I felt this one I needed to put out right away to the public because of the level of threat that I feel that this kind of disinformation that's mentioned in the paper involves.
And I think it's very important for people to understand the degree to which there has been for many decades an attempt to manipulate the UFO information in a certain direction.
And that direction being decidedly sort of a military response to the UFO problem.
Well, if you're in the defense industry, if you're building bombs and missiles and stuff like that, then you probably, what is it, a billion dollars a day I think we spend on our defense, a billion dollars would there be a day, and that's a whole lot of money.
President Eisenhower told us to beware, military-industrial complex.
And now we have enemies at the moment, but unless you have enemies, then you can't justify spending a billion dollars a day, can you?
What we have found is that, and the reason I wrote this paper, Cosmic Deception, is that while, of course, we know that there are UFOs that exist, we know that some of them are extraterrestrial.
However, we also know that there are a number of them that are made by humans and that they have been used in countermeasures or disinformation events that include the attempts to hoax extraterrestrial events that would appear frightening to people.
And I think that one of the problems with this is that there is a trillion dollar a year global military and industrial laboratory complex that for many decades, and some of the classified information that I have seen, have spoken of needing to create eventually an enemy out in space to justify the continued expansion of those resources, but also to control the way people react to the phenomenon.
So it's a centralized and fear and control sort of response to the problem.
And I think this is a very, very dangerous thing, and it's come to my attention that there will be an increasing effort to put that kind of information out into the public.
All right, but the bottom line of what you seem to be saying is you believe it's possible, and just straight out question, do you believe it's possible the military or some cabal or group within the government or above the government, whatever the case might be, actually would stage an event to scare the hell out of us and justify lots of money for space-type weapons and fighting aliens and that kind of thing.
And in fact, this is something that let's go through a little bit of the reason why we're making this assessment.
I began interviewing people as early as 1992 that had information on this particular plan.
And as recently as a year or two ago, we had Wernher von Braun's spokesperson, Dr. Kiril Rosen, who was his spokesperson for Wernher von Braum for the last four years of his life, who said that he had specifically warned that there would be an attempt to do that after there was the period of the Cold War, that there would be a period of rogue states, and that would be followed by a global terrorism, a stage where we find ourselves today.
And by the way, this testimony was acquired prior to 9-11, and that the Trump card that would be played would be a threat from space, and that there would be an attempt to hoax and to frame a presence in outer space that would be a threat so that we could justify a multi-trillion dollar, eventually a multi-trillion dollar buildup that would be completely a ruse.
What would happen politically, do you think, Doctor?
In other words, not only would it mean lots of good military spending for us, but it would affect the world as well.
And if somebody wanted to, I don't know, begin to get the world together under some sort of centralized, for some centralized purpose, wouldn't this fit that bill?
Yeah, this would be an excellent way of doing that.
And in fact, you know that Ronald Reagan several times in the 1980s stated to the United Nations and to the Council on Foreign Relations that, and I'm paraphrasing here, but I have a videotape of this speech where he says, you know, our job of creating a unity in the world would be easier if we had a common alien threat to unite against.
And I think that unfortunately there is this tendency, instead of finding positive things to find unity over, perhaps some people have concluded it would be easier to create this kind of camaraderie on an international basis through fear.
And unfortunately, this has worked in other scenarios.
But in this one, this is the ultimate one.
And I think it's a very, very dangerous path to go down.
And I have to say that along the lines of this, you know, there was a man that we had brought to Washington in 1997, along with about 15 other military and intelligence witnesses, to brief senior members of Congress and Pentagon and White House officials that we had gathered in a closed meeting.
This was April of 97.
And this particular man, who was an intelligence officer, was going to tell the group that he had set in on planning meetings where there had been a very black, super-secret group that had been planning the use of these so-called alien reproduction vehicles that we talk about,
these ARVs, that would be, of course, are made by humans that look very much like UFOs and use an anti-gravity propulsion system to engage in actions, including attacks on certain assets, to make it look like we were under attack.
James Mann was very credible, extremely credible, and his testimony has been corroborated to me by other people.
I have a man who is an Air Force Officer of Special Investigations who knew of this plan.
I have a gentleman who has been read into, quote unquote, other technologies that can simulate these kinds of events.
You know, when I first heard it, you know, with this paper I wrote, you know, I opened it talking about, gee, what if somebody at this time last year came and gave you the scenario of what happened on 9-11?
Most people, even if you were, you know, a writer for a TV show or a novel, would have been far out.
Yeah, yeah, just too far out.
This is crazy.
And when I first started hearing these things, I said, oh, come on.
Then I met a man, a very interesting gentleman whose testimony has also been corroborated by others, who was, quote, read into, and that's the term used in the military, a very top-secret technology that involved electronic warfare systems that could literally involve the control of people's awareness,
their state of awareness, and their experiences, and that these have been used to induce what some people would call abductions, things that look like an extraterrestrial experience, but are hoaxed.
This is not to say that people haven't had actual extraterrestrial contact.
It's just to say that there's a whole lot of disinformation that's been put out there.
And one insider told me back in 1994, after I met with President Clinton's first CI director, that in fact this whole thing is hidden in plain sight and that the activity that's been going on is, if you expose sort of this Wizard of Oz phenomenon, I call it, where there's some people behind some curtains pulling a lot of levers, deceiving people, that no one would believe it.
That the deception is a more implausible, though true, explanation than having people believe it's actually all extraterrestrial.
So there's an enormous amount of disinformation.
And I liken it to taking, you know, you have a few gold nuggets of extraterrestrial events that have happened, and not a few, but a large number.
But those have been hidden by covering them, laying on top of them, literally tons and tons Of fool's gold, and unfortunately, not enough people have been doing assays of this thing, and I think it's a big problem.
You know, and I certainly believe, that UFOs are really, on occasion, extraterrestrial craft visiting Earth.
So to me, that means that our government, our military at some level, they know they're here, and they're either frightened of them because they don't know, or they wish to figure a way to defend against them because they assume, as our military would, they're probably hostile, or at least could be hostile.
That would be a military assumption to be on the safe side.
And so maybe they would stage this actually they could believe in our own best interests so that we would begin to develop the technology that we might truly need.
Well, you know, this is what I thought initially, but in actuality, it's a little more complicated.
I think you're right that a lot of the people who are cogs in that machine do think exactly as you described.
But in reality, the people who are really the insiders know that there's no objective threat from outer space, but that it's an incredible opportunity in terms of propaganda that if it's used in the right way, that can greatly expand a sort of a centralized militaristic kind of control mechanism over many, many peoples.
For example, right now, there are projects that would like to eventually spend an enormous amount of funding on putting active warfare systems and weapon systems in place.
And most people feel that's a reasonable thing to do if you're shooting down someone else's ICBM.
Unfortunately, I've got folks who've worked on projects where these systems have been designed primarily to look not down towards the earth, but out into space, and in fact, have tracked and targeted extraterrestrial vehicles.
And the people who have been personally present at those sort of things have told me that they saw that there was no threat coming from that direction, and that there is sort of an engent provocateur, a tendency towards to provoke a situation.
And I think these are the kinds of games, the sort of gamesmanship, I might call it brinksmanship, that's very, very dangerous.
And I think the world, because it's so easy to motivate people to fear and hysteria and that kind of thing, that the world is very vulnerable to this kind of manipulation.
And I know that the first head of the Defense Intelligence Agency that I briefed, I brought this issue up, that there was a serious problem with senior military people who were not inside this sort of rogue and black operation being caught unawares.
And certainly our political leaders, but even very senior military leaders could be caught unawares by what's been called a deception.
For example, we have not only space and high atmospheric holographic systems, the holograms that could deceive people, but we also have these alien reproduction vehicles that are capable of going to space and back and that do function silently with anti-gravity systems that have been manufactured there at the north base of Edwards for many years.
Lockheed and Northrop and others have worked on these.
And these could be used in a scenario where, for example, certain national security assets within the traditional government were targeted, such as satellite systems or other assets.
And it would look to everyone observing it like we were under attack by some very esoteric spacecraft from another world.
Now, this kind of thing, I'm afraid, when you've got a rogue group of people that are not being supervised by the appropriate authorities within the constitutional chain of command, and I think quite frankly, this includes the U.S. President and the current U.S. President as well as past presidents, that there is a serious threat here that is real.
And I would not have believed this myself if I hadn't come across so many people who had seen parts of this.
And it's sort of a mosaic that you've got to put together.
You can go all the way back.
You mentioned this thing about the Australian laser system.
I have a witness, and it's in this book, Disclosure, that we put together.
He's someone, name, rank, and serial number who was in the Canadian Air Force.
And his name is Fred Trellfell.
And he, in 1953, before I was born, witnessed a solid object teleported from one room to another with this advanced electronic device in Canada before I was born, almost 50 years ago.
Now, imagine what kinds of toys there are within these covert classified projects and the degree to which many people and even very well-placed black projects at the Pentagon elsewhere may not be aware of these other projects and how vulnerable that makes them to false assumptions about something that could happen.
I think already this has been going on.
I think there's an enormous amount of false information about extraterrestrials in the open literature, in the media, and in the UFO research community because many of the people I've dealt with in talking to people who've had experiences with abductions clearly remember and recall military people and military helicopters present during their experience.
Now, although this is usually covered up and whitewashed in the UFO community, it's something that's been reported for over 20 years.
Well, a lot of people would say it's ridiculous to imagine the United States would either start something or stage something, but Gee Wiz, remember the Gulf of Tonkin.
Once again, here is Dr. Stephen M. Greer from CSETI, and I've got a couple of really important questions for Dr. Greer.
Dr. Greer, first of all, my question would be, and this is for everybody who's listening, I agree they exist, but, you know, I don't know that I'm comfortable personally that they are completely benign.
Well, I mean, I think that one of the points I make today, you know, this is the same question that was asked of me at the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in 1993 when my military guys and I went there to meet with the head of the Foreign Aerospace Science and Technology Division of Wright-Patterson, which was the division that the Roswell remains had been sent to.
And the colonel there at the time asked me and brought this question up.
And I said, look, given the things that I know that you guys have done, the fact that you and I are still breathing the free air of Earth would indicate that they're not hostile.
That if they were, imagine this, your ability to travel through interstellar and, quote, interdimensional space at multiples of the speed of light with enormous knowledge of the fabric of space and time.
And we have started going into space.
We have nuclear weapons that can destroy entire worlds.
If they were hostile in the sense that we understand hostility, you and I wouldn't be having this conversation tonight, Art.
And I think that whether or not they are all in favor of the things that we are doing at this point is another question.
I think probably not.
And I think there are probably competing agendas.
For example, we may want to go out into space and do some things that others may not want us to do until we learn to do so peacefully.
Well, this may be true, but I don't see any evidence for it.
And every time I interview someone who's really deep on the inside, who's had a lot of exposure to the subject, they just shake their head and they say, no, there's no evidence of these sorts of things, as much as we might like to fantasize about them because we kind of enjoy that kind of conflict as a people and as a culture.
And I think we're rather addicted to these things, but I don't see any evidence for it.
Now, what I do see evidence for, and this speaks to this directly, I interviewed two years ago a man who was too afraid to come forward at the time.
And we're working right now with a very prominent public interest lawyer in Washington to put together affidavits for this kind of man and to secure their testimony.
And this man had been an Army Ranger, and he had been in a special mission, a very super secret mission that was quite unrelated to everything else he had ever done in the military, where he went in on one of these special vehicles and literally abducted other military personnel to make them think that they had been abducted and abused by an extraterrestrial.
And when I first heard this, he thought this would have been shocking to me.
And I said, well, no, because this was in the year 2000.
And I said, I already have several people like you I've already interviewed who have seen that and more.
And he says, well, he said to me, you know, there are a whole lot of people out there who have been selected very carefully to go through this kind of an abduction.
And they think that there is a threat out in space.
And we're doing it so that they will think that.
And I said, yes, I've heard this from other people.
For example, some of the people who were present and involved with the abduction at 3 in the morning or so out of New York City, Paris DeQueer, the Secretary General of the United Nations, made to look like an alien encounter when it was done completely by these paragovernmental super secret projects using some very advanced systems.
What I remind people of is that what you might have heard of on CNN is probably five to ten generations late from what exists within these super secret projects.
Imagine 1953, we were teleporting things.
Imagine 1958, I personally interviewed the man who invented electronics so that people could remotely view distant places in space.
People who were working with very, very advanced electronic and electromagnetic systems capable of doing all kinds of things that would just make your hair curl, that sound like something out of Star Trek, but unfortunately actually do exist and can be used and in fact have been used in these sort of deceptive undertakings.
Well, what about CNN, say ABC, CBS, all the networks, in fact, reporting as the last story of the night something like this.
The Defense Department today announced they had seen the destruction of two of their defense satellites by what they regard as possible extraterrestrial life.
And then there'd be a little giggle.
So in other words, the Defense Department is saying, two little green men destroyed two of our satellites.
In other words, haven't they ruined their own deception?
It's going to have to be awfully big for anybody to do less than, you know, give it the usual kicker story at the end with a little chuckle.
I once thought this as well, but it actually is running on several pathways on a parallel basis, in other words, contemporaneously.
One of them is the one that you mentioned, which is all the tee hee hee ridicule little green men.
And of course, I've been exposed to plenty of that, being in the position I'm in, as the disclosure project.
On the other hand, there's this other thread that runs through this, which is very xenophobic.
Things that are put out there that are hoaxed or exaggerated for the purpose of creating and instilling fear in people, which seems to be more along the agenda of not the 1953 CIA document that talked about having Disney studios make cartoons about UFOs to ridicule them,
but seems to be more along the lines of the 1960s report from Iron Mountain, New York, where it was discussed that we would have to create a threat from outer space to justify the continued growth and expansion of a trillion-dollar-plus military, industrial, laboratory, and intelligence complex on this planet.
So I think that there are several things going on, and these are not necessarily mutually exclusive strategies, actually.
I think they actually serve various purposes at various times.
Now, on the other hand, if they were to announce that a military installation had been destroyed with saucer sightings, that there had been some kind of beam from a saucer, and they'd have to have photographs, and there would be destruction, and there probably would be death.
Now, that would mean that you would have to reach out and kill to create this deception.
Do you think they would be prepared to go that far?
And in fact, I'm quite certain of the fact that there's an arm of this group that's extremely lethal.
I kind of half-jokingly call it Murder Incorporated, that has, without any doubt in my mind at all, engaged in extreme behavior up to and including the taking of life.
I don't believe that this is something that they would flinch at.
One of the things that I think the power that's derived here is the deception.
If people can get to the bottom of what's going on, and unfortunately it's not as neat and tidy as people are told when they look at this subject superficially, there are extraterrestrial events that take place, but there's also an enormous number of events that look extraterrestrial that I'm quite convinced are of man-made origin and are done so for deceptive purposes.
Doctor, my program is now the second largest program in terms of the numbers of affiliates of any program in the country, right next to Rush.
Right.
Okay.
And in fact, in terms of hours spent listening, my program is the number one program in America, hours spent listening.
That's something a lot of people don't know.
Now, is it reasonable to ask you, if they didn't want this discussed, particularly the kind of thing we're talking about right now, and these are people who would reach out and touch with murder if they had to, why do you think my program, after all, if they didn't want me here, I wouldn't be here, would I?
Well, I don't know that that's necessarily the case.
I think there are a lot of things here that are protective.
I mean, for example, long before we started talking about any of these things openly, publicly, we had meetings with folks at the Pentagon who are what I call the White Hats, which are 99%.
I mean, the vast majority of people in our armed services and intelligence community are actually appalled at these kind of rogue operations.
And I think that we began to talk with them, and there is a growing, not a diminishing, a growing amount of support in those quarters for what we are doing and for getting this information out.
Yeah, but yes, in other words, there's an umbrella of protection that extends around some of this at this point that didn't exist five or ten years ago when, quite frankly, three people I know working on this issue with me were murdered.
And I think that it's a very serious issue to begin to entertain what has to be put in place.
And I think we've got a lot of that in place.
But I think where the world is vulnerable and where our leadership, both military and civilian leadership are vulnerable, is the contagion of hysteria that could attend certain events.
And my sole purpose in discussing this at this point, as far out as it may seem, is because I've seen too much evidence.
I've talked to too many independent, corroborating insiders who've seen parts of this, quote, plan, and including this gentleman that we brought to Washington in 97, who had literally set in on planning sessions where this deceptive plan had been in great detail discussed, that I think that it's very important that people understand that knowledge is very powerful, that the value of a surprise deception is reduced by being able to discuss it.
And I think that's why we're doing it.
And quite frankly, I think that's why we're being allowed to do it, because there are a lot of folks.
Remember, after I met with CIA Director Woolsey, two separate people told me that a third of the so-called MJ-12 group or secret group were supportive of what we were wanting to do.
And I think that there are growing numbers of people within these very secret programs who did not even know what a lot of the agendas were that they were serving because it's so compartmented.
And I think once they found out what it is, that there is a large and growing number of people who support what we're trying to do with getting the truth out about them.
You know, I asked back in the early 90s, I asked a Navy intelligence guy who had personally witnessed one of these events, and I asked him, why are we doing that?
He says, well, you know how dogs go around and pee on the corners of your property and mark their territory?
He says, it's just that simple.
It's that stupid and that arrogant and that simple.
And I said, you've got to be kidding.
He says, no.
I mean, you know, a lot of this, I mean, people get too grand in their thinking.
Imagine this.
We have, for example, witnesses who are on your show when you're back without the gentleman, George Norrie, hosted us, who corroborated these objects, hovering over ICBMs and taking 16 to 20 of them offline on a single evening.
We have other people who have testified that when we've tried to do certain things out in space, that they have not allowed us to do it because they didn't want these kind of weapons out there.
Well, this might make some people very frustrated, and you are humans.
And I think that there is a little bit of a test going on there that's not been supervised and looked at very thoroughly.
And see, here's one of the dangers is that these guys who are present at those events didn't feel that the extraterrestrials were hostile, but they were trying to send us a message about our hostility.
But you could see how that could be misinterpreted in these hermetically sealed compartments that are only looking at this issue through sort of military-colored glasses or conflict-colored glasses.
And this is why disclosure is so important.
It's such a dangerous thing for this kind of extreme secrecy.
You know, Roscoe Hillenkeeter, the first CIA director in 1960 or 61, wrote a letter after he left the position of CIA director stating that the secrecy surrounding UFOs was a threat to the national security.
He never said UFOs were a threat.
He said the secrecy surrounding the subject was a threat to the national security.
Fascinating.
And this was a man who stuck his neck way back there.
I mean, you know, I was a five-year-old kid when he said that.
What he's saying is that the people such as President Eisenhower, who we now know through the testimony of Brigadier General Lubkin, who's a disclosure project witness, and others, were being kept in the dark, that the people in the National Military Command Authority,
the people who are in senior levels of the Pentagon that I have personally briefed, who have been appalled at what they have been denied access to, I personally briefed to one of the heads of intelligence for the Joint Chiefs of Staff who was told he didn't have a need to know after he located a compartment at MJ-12 Operation.
And I mean, these things are a threat to the national security because of the element of deception that can take place, but also because they don't know what they're dealing with when they inadvertently come across these things.
And they aren't adequately briefed, and often very dangerous actions are taken.
the extreme secrecy surrounding this and the sort of extreme compartmentalization way beyond a normal black project but doctor imagine But imagine our biggest national security people sitting around a table, maybe with some scientific advisors or whatever.
And as you pointed out yourself, these would be beings who cross, you know, more light years than we could even imagine very quickly, who could probably dispose of entire worlds.
And you're sitting there making a decision to shoot one of these craft down.
It is, but I think they know that they're essentially not hostile and that this is the other point.
They would like to see situations evolve where they could justify a conflict.
And I think this is what is so dangerous.
I mean, you have to know that there are enormous vested interests, not only in terms of finances and funding, but in terms of worldview, paradigm, a sort of a way of controlling the way things are through centralized, fear-oriented military control as opposed to other more positive things.
This is not in any way to slam the legitimate defense needs of the United States or other countries.
Well, unfortunately, there are people who I think would be happy to see other scenarios unfold that would be very frightening to people in the long run.
I'm not saying this is going to happen next month, but it could.
And when I had someone call me who is attached to one of the wealthiest media people in the world, and is that person's personal representative in the media, and say that, you know, we're doing in the hundreds of millions of dollar thing to put out information that will be very frightening to people on this subject of UFOs and extraterrestrials.
I sat up and took notice.
And When I then heard another person talking to me about a scenario that could be hoaxed along these lines, it became very, very disconcerting to me.
I think when I say the reason I decided to write this paper, Cosmic Deception, is to remind people to stay calm, to look very skeptically at things that happen, and to be sure and begin to look at who would benefit from scenarios that would be frightening.
And between 1992 and now, in the last 10 years, I have just found too much evidence to support that there is something very fishy going on and that there is an attempt to manipulate this subject in a direction that puts us on a war footing for reasons that are obvious if you begin to analyze who would benefit.
They can, you know, on your site and on our website, disclosureproject.org, they can read this assessment.
They can also read this other thing, the disclosure serves secrecy, which goes into greater detail on that.
I think the other thing is that people can help us identify more of these direct witnesses to this deception.
We are actively looking to put under affidavit people who have knowledge of this scheme and who are willing to come forward, preferably identify, but if they are not identified, so long as we can have them vouched for, we'll work with them.
So people who can contact me at our website, disclosureproject.org, and get us that information of those sorts of people, both victims of these events, as well as people who had first-hand knowledge of this.
Now, you would think that a guy named Bell would know about the Bell Witch, wouldn't you?
But that's one story I actually know very, very little about.
That's about to change.
Trust me, that's about to change.
What's coming up is a sharp left turn from where we were, or is it?
That could be up for debate, I suppose.
Neil Sibley is here, and he knows, believe me, about the Bell Witch, for it haunts him.
We'll get into all of that.
It is indeed my birthday, as I mentioned in the first hour.
Those who haven't seen it, my birthday present from the wonderful people at Premier is contained in my hands on my webcam photograph on my website.
So you go to my website, rbell.com, and then you click on program and the webcam, and there I will be holding the box in which it came.
And actually, when I get off the air this morning, 2 o'clock Pacific time, I'll appear with my new gift in full regalia operating on 3830.
For about 2 a.m., if you happen to be up, if you're a night person, you might make it to 75 meters and 3830, and there I will be talking on my birthday gift.
All right, stand by because what's coming up is going to be somewhat, What's a good word?
Chilling, I think, is a pretty good word.
Chilling.
All right, Neil Sibley is from Tennessee, so you're going to hear a little southern accent.
He's a graduate of the University of Tennessee with a BS and MS in agricultural business.
He has worked for a Fortune 500 corporation in the sales department for over a decade now.
He left a rather secure career to pursue script writing full-time.
He's written four complete screenplays, several more stories that he's developing, including a romantic comedy, which is in the works at the moment.
One of his finished screenplays, a dramatic comedy called Our Family Trouble, has led Neil to believe that he is under spiritual attack from demonic spirits.
The screenplay, which is based on historical events from the early 1800s at the farm of John Bell, no relative as far as I know, where a witch, really a demonic spirit, was said to have kept the Bell House in turmoil.
Even Andrew Jackson came to investigate during the original haunting and left after his coach wheels stopped mysteriously dead.
Many visitors to the house have seen furniture crash about them, heard the witch shriek, sing, and curse.
Neil wanted to write a movie script that would convey a biblical theme, yet be commercially viable.
He says he asked God for such a project and vowed that he would take on the devil himself if he had to.
He says as a result of prayer, the story of the bell witch haunting was revealed to him under very unusual circumstances.
After reviewing the script, a preacher warned him that he was on Satan's number one enemy list.
A preacher warned him he's on Satan's number one enemy list.
Well, yes, it's this has been quite of an experience.
I really didn't know what I was getting into.
I don't think I would have possibly not have volunteered for this if I'd known exactly, but I guess you need to be careful when you ask the Lord for something like this, and you'll take on the devil himself, because he may just give it to you.
Okay, this event started, first began in 1818 on the frontier in Middle Tennessee.
And what occurred was there was a family that was a first-generation pioneer family, and they had been on this farm for about 10 to 15 years.
And they were considered to be a fine, upstanding Christian family and sort of the pillars of the community.
But one day, while John Bell was on the backside of his farm, he saw a strange-looking animal that he could not identify, which was not all that unusual on the frontier, because you would encounter animals that you had not seen.
I've read actually many accounts of that, of supposedly the way the accounts I read, that the devil himself can take the form of a dog for whatever reason.
Well, in this case, in this case, it's really in a class all by itself.
I mean, there is nothing that compares to this haunting.
It eventually developed, well, what happened before it actually spoke, the house would actually shake as if a clap of thunder went off in the house.
And during the first year, John Bell did not want his wife or his, he had six or seven children living in the house at the time, none of them to speak of this to the neighbors for fear that they would think that they were practicing.
Well, what I was going to say, I'm getting ahead of myself here, but when this entity, what they did was they asked a preacher finally to visit the home and to pray for him because they knew that after the first year, this thing wasn't going away on its own.
Well, he and his wife stayed the night, and he prayed, read a chapter from the Bible, and after that they went to bed, and then this thing just started literally raising hell, basically.
And it was worse than ever that night.
And it began, they could hear like its lips, you know, like it was trying to talk.
Well, the reason he didn't leave was when it started talking, it told him it was going to stay until it killed John Bell, and then it said, you're not going to run.
I mean, why do little children's lives get taken at two weeks, you know, by some kidnapper or parent who doesn't really want a child and they're tossed in trash cans?
Why do those things happen?
We ask that kind of question about God all the time.
You know, some of you may be aware, others not, that my wife Ramona has been known to perhaps dabble in the craft a bit, and that would make her the Bell Witch, right?
This is a pretty sensitive topic for both of us a lot of ways.
Well, this is really puzzling to me.
Really, really puzzling.
It says here, the Bell Witch eventually killed John Bell in December of 1821.
It refused to say why, remember, this thing could talk, saying only that God allowed it to do so to benefit future generations.
Now, that's about one of the craziest things I've ever heard.
God would send an entity to earth to kill someone to benefit future generations.
And so you give it to a cat, the cat dies, poisoned.
I understand.
All right, so it killed him, which would mean to me, based on what it's, Do we understand, do you understand at all, Neil, why God would send something like this to kill somebody?
Now, the older son, John Bell Jr., was highly intelligent, and he absolutely was unafraid of this, and he called it a demon from hell, and that he even essentially said to its face, but it wasn't, obviously it didn't appear, that it was so evil that its fellow demons couldn't get along with it.
I mean, he took nothing from it, but it always professed to like him, even though they would get in sharp verbal debates.
And even once, it even said, I don't know why I don't strike you.
But he was not afraid of it.
Whereas the mother always tendered to it.
She would thank it after it would do something nice.
I tell you, I have interviewed people like the late father Malachi Martin and other exorcists, and this story does not fit into any of those molds at all.
No, now, interesting, though, John Bell Jr., he felt that this was similar, though, in the book of Job, in the Old Testament, where God did allow Satan to attack.
Don't ask me why, I'm not a Bible scholar, but he allowed Satan himself to attack his servant Job, but he could not kill him.
And Job, under this tremendous persecution, remained faithful to the Lord.
But anyhow, the only thing that they could parallel this to and make sense out of it was for some reason God was allowing this to happen to this good man.
And to Betsy, and you say in here that it was being nice to Betsy, and yet there came a time when it would not allow Betsy Bell to marry her boyfriend?
Now, this just did not make sense to me at all when I'm studying this.
It demanded that she not marry, and this was a fine person, well-respected, and he lived a good life and would have been a good husband.
But for some reason, at the time, it demanded, and it made it very clear that it would see that, you know, they would never have a happy life and it would see to it.
So what could she do?
But we nigged on her promise to marry this boy.
Oh, God.
unidentified
You know, I mean, was this thing talking to this family of collectively every day?
Now, if you were drinking, and if you got drunk, and they would have, like at harvest time, they would have where everybody got together, all the workers and slaves and all the family members, and they would have a big festival.
Well, it was a national story, but evidently over the years, for some reason, it is little known outside, until recently, outside of the region in middle Tennessee where this haunting occurred.
Now, I had never heard of this before I got involved in this.
And it simply was by chance.
Well, it literally came to me.
The story did.
I'm kind of avoiding your question here, but I'm going to come back to your question you asked.
I came home one day, and there was a book on my desk, a history book on Southern history, and for the first time I read the story of the Bell Wichomi.
I don't remember the title of the book, but what's really strange is I had gone to Natchez, Mississippi to meet with my partner, and I had told him about this weird feeling I had for this movie about, you know, I'm a comedy writer, so this is really weird that I would be doing something like this.
Released his book, The Bellwich of Tennessee, A Mysterious Spirit.
He released this or published this book, and it was really the first full account.
Now, one of the younger sons, in about 1841 or 1842 or something, wrote a manuscript, "Our Family Trouble." And he was very young at the time, and he gave his account, but of course, he did not have a full account because...
Right.
And of course, that's where I got the title for my screenplay.
When Mrs. Bell would be having Bible studies at the house, and this thing would be singing along in the voice of an angel, it would manifest fruits for her.
You know, it was doing this to sort of...
They said the first time it did that, everybody freaked out.
You know, that fits into everything that I think I understand about the nature of what we're talking about.
The crossing of time and space, the non-locality of everything really being in touch with everything, even though we may not be aware of it at the frequency at which we operate.
Scientists now are talking about this great non-locality where everything is connected to everything and everything is known.
There's all kinds of science beginning to develop around all of this.
Once upon a time Once when you were mine I remember your sight Reflected in your eyes I wonder where you are I wonder if you think about me Once upon a time In your wildest dreams
Rejoice Bell in the Kingdom of Nye.
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This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
Neil Sibley is my guest, and we're talking about the Bell Witch.
Now, the Bell Witch is a very well-documented haunting.
I think you'd call it a haunting, but maybe that's yet to be determined because perhaps the scariest part of the story, the one affecting our guest, Mr. Sibley, lies yet ahead.
And the reason the Bell Witch did what it did, that information also lies directly ahead.
Once again, ladies and gentlemen, here is Neil Sibley.
And what's interesting is that it told him that the outcome of the war and that the slaves would be freed because the Creator had already made the decision.
So anyhow, it also covered a lot of ground, but it also, what I thought was interesting, is that it demonstrated that how a spirit such as itself, which was created as a spirit, it was never a human.
It was created by God as a spirit.
In other words, the angels and then the fallen angels, which were demons, were all created by God as spirits.
Now, you began to, you wrote a screenplay, right, called Our Family Trouble.
That's correct.
All right, I'm now going to direct everybody's attention to my website, and under Program and tonight's guest info, that's what you click on, you will see first Stephen Greer's name, then Neil Sibley.
And he is graciously, he wasn't sure he wanted to do it, but he brought a photograph.
He sent me a photograph in a frame, in a glass frame.
By the way, the glass was shattered when it arrived here, but the photograph made it through.
And we're going to tell you about this photograph.
Now, I've got it on the website right now.
So under his name, you'll see a little link.
If you click on that, you're going to see the photograph we're about to talk about.
Just click on Our Family Trouble.
And this, please now, tell us, I mean, here you are working on a screenplay.
And this scene that you're seeing was already in the script, which I took from the original haunting.
When this thing manifested itself, you had all this other strange phenomena going on also, but yet it was, you know, it was to some extent irrelevant based, you know, once this thing started talking.
But what they called were the flitting lights, and they said these were commonly seen during the haunting.
So in my script, I used that where there's a scene in the movie where this thing, they look outside the window, and they see this thing like a juggler, like these balls of light coming across the field.
And they do a dance on John, or like a juggler.
You know, I would use three balls to do a little dance or act on John Bell's grave.
So anyhow, I go to the farm, and I know basically where the farm is because it's, well, it's marked, but then the border of the farm, the back border was the Red River, which is basically a big creek.
So I had a pretty good indication where everything was.
Well, when I got to the farm, I was going to take a photograph, and it was going to be of an empty field because I knew that they had torn down the original house.
Now, my script does call for the original house to be there.
For those of you who cannot see it, it's a picture of a very green field, as you might imagine to find in Tennessee, and a big field, and then a farmhouse, and then there are these...
You know, people talk about orbs a lot these days and get a lot of photographs of these things.
These are not orbs.
These are This is closer to the kinds of lights that have been associated with the forming of crop circles, believe it or not.
These, as I've heard them described, that's what they look like to me.
Well, these are reported now quite common today in this area.
In other words, truckers at night, according to a newspaper article that was recently written where they interviewed the people that are on the farm, are seeing these strange lights coming across the field.
On the back side of the farm, there's a river, right above the river, there's a cave, sort of a bluff area, then there's a cave inside, and they always refer to it as a Bellwich Cave.
The family would fish there, and they would also store, you know, the cave was cool, they would store goods inside the cave to keep, you know, sort of a refrigeration, serve as a refrigerator, basically.
But they would hear its voice come from the cave a lot or in the area.
And it just over the years became known as the Bellwich Cave.
But the people that own the farm say that this, I mean, incredible things happen in that cave.
And it's very common now to take photographs, and the demons show up in front of the cave or in the cave in some fashion or form.
So these things appearing on my photograph, I really kind of expected it.
You know, I'll tell you something, though, Neil, and I believe this is true of Ouija boards, which I do not discuss, of other artifacts of the paranormal, even discussion of the paranormal and the kind of things we're talking about right now,
and therefore, in the listening audience, the consideration of these things, and I want to scare the hell out of my listeners, but I believe the consideration of these things, the mental processes that you go through as you're listening to the kind of story you're telling us right now, or even being in the area and being involved directly in some way in this story, as in writing a screenplay, what it does, Neil, is it opens doors like Ouija boards, like other things on the streets?
What happened, I'm going to backtrack here a little bit, but when this was first revealed to me, and again, I had never heard of it, and it was, you know, a history book was just essentially left on my desk, and I came in and after sort of getting a feel for this story, and when I read the history of the Bellwich, I knew right away that was what I was looking for.
But yet I was a little uncomfortable with it, as you can imagine.
But I then, as I said, looked on the map and realized that I was born just a few miles from that farm, and of course I moved when I was three.
Now, I couldn't understand if this thing was true.
Why had I never heard of it?
So I called a friend in North Mississippi.
Now, this is significant because it's the first person I called, and I knew he was a very well-read person.
I thought if anybody knew about this, he might know, but I didn't really think he would.
And when I called him, he said, I know a lot about it.
He said, my best friend was the world's leading authority back in the 70s on this.
And he used to go around the country giving lectures at universities.
And he said, the fellow was brilliant.
He sort of disappeared off a radar screen, moved to Europe or something.
I wonder why.
But so right off that, you know, I'm giving validation for this.
Ask the lady if she'd ever heard anything about this.
And she said if it was a snake, it'd bite you.
She said, turn around.
She said, a new book, the first book since 1935 has come out by a local author had researched and put all the, a lot of the relevant facts from the 1934 book, 34 book.
And then he added recent accounts from people that live in the area.
It was a really interesting little book.
But anyhow, it was right there behind me on a display like they have in the little, in the bookstores or whatever, where they have multiple books.
And what's strange is when I, I asked the little lady, she had this sweet little smile on her face.
And I asked her if she'd ever heard of this book.
And all of a sudden, it's like, I mean, this most pained look on her face, like, well, he's doomed.
She said, I know all about it.
She said, follow me.
So she takes me around to the back of this little library in a corner, a dark corner, reaches down under like this little hidden shelf somewhere, pulls this thing out and hands it to me and says, son, I don't know what you're doing with this, but you need to be really, really careful.
She said, I hear bad things happen to people who fool with this.
And she said, I know that for a fact.
And I said, but I'm doing it from it.
And she said, I don't want to know.
I don't want to know.
And she just went away.
She didn't want to talk anymore.
She gave the warning and she was gone.
So I'm thinking, what have I got myself into?
And now keep in mind how this all came about.
I asked the Lord to give me a script that had a biblical theme commercial, something that had some punch to it because I kind of felt like we need it today.
These kids today need something to kind of set them straight.
You know what I'm saying?
When I was a kid, everybody had some, you know, we didn't always act right, but we knew right from wrong, if you know what I mean.
So anyhow, you know, I'm thinking, Lord, you must have me confused with somebody else.
You know, this is not exactly what I was, you know, thinking about.
So anyhow, I did my research and I'm totally baffled because this 19, which we've been discussing, book that was basically John Bell Jr.'s manuscript just didn't, I mean, it just didn't add up.
All I'm left with is this thing is a Bible-preaching demon from hell that claims that God allowed it to do this for the benefit of future generations.
So anyhow, I began to write my, a little voice just told me, go ahead and register your synopsis now or you'll be sorry.
So I, normally you don't do this.
You don't register your synopsis.
You register a copyright your script.
First, well, I worked just day and night to write up my basic story and I registered it.
And this was in January of 1997.
So as I begin to write my script, now remember my script is a version of it coming back today, but my lead character, say somebody like you who buys this farm and then begins, this thing comes back.
Okay, so I said, Lord, I can't do this thing because I don't know.
I said, somehow, you're going to have to reveal this to me.
It's been a mystery, a total, complete, probably the world's greatest mystery since 1818, and I have to know the answer or you can just forget this script.
Let me kind of give you a little background of where I was coming from.
I never really believed, to me, you know, I had a Christian background, but to me, what they call spiritual warfare and this, I kind of felt like things just kind of rock on, and when you die, the supernatural kicks in.
You know what I'm saying?
I did not believe in the supernatural.
But yet the Bible is supernatural.
It is, yes.
And you can't.
If you really believe the Bible, you've got to believe in spiritual warfare, the struggle between Satan and his demons and the Lord and good and evil angels.
I had to, anyhow, this book came out, okay, that I eventually got was a manuscript that had been sealed since 1841 that was written by the man who married Etsy Belle, the daughter.
He's a super good fellow, but he was in a mental institution, and he had developed schizophrenia from a brain lesion and the medications they put him on.
And he basically, after he got out, wanted to commit suicide, but then he prayed one last time, make a long story short, and he said instead of, he woke up.
In other words, he just immediately fell asleep, evidently, and a mockingbird was looking in the window, singing to him.
This gets weird.
And he said, well, I'll die.
I mean, I won't kill myself.
I'll die fighting crime.
And he gets it.
This is a true story, but it's too weird to even believe.
Anyhow, so he's got this bizarre story, and he's hearing voices and whatever.
And he eventually overcomes all this, and he's better now.
And he's a super person.
But he wanted me to do a story on his personal story.
And I told him, I said, I can't do yours because that's just not my thing.
I do my own creative work.
I said, but I can incorporate your character, fictionalize him, and put him in the script I'm working in now.
It turns out this fellow, he'd never heard of the Bell Witch.
And I asked him, and I felt obligated to, to work on the next script, which was the one on the Bell Witch.
And, of course, I wanted to know if he was related.
And so he made some phone calls.
And he calls this aunt who knew the full account, even had the 1934 book by Dr. Charles Bodebell, but she absolutely denied that they were related to those Bells.
And she got very sensitive about it.
So he began to believe that he was related or is related to those.
So anyhow, I couldn't have done, you know, that was a training script for this script, and it was all made possible by this fellow by the name of Belle.
I mean, it's, you know, I'm starting to see a trend here.
Well, first of all, one of the things that I, probably the first serious encounter was that I decided, I can't believe I did this, I was going to change the title.
I was starting to get comfortable with it at some point.
And I was going to change the title to Touched by a Demon.
You know, I thought that was cute.
You know, touched by an angel, touched by a demon.
And it's just like a voice spoke to me.
The Holy Spirit just spoke to me, just as before, telling me about the book that I needed, and said, you don't need to go there.
You're crossing a border.
You're trivializing the demon.
And I understand now what I was doing.
You know, I'm taking the edge off of this.
And I can't believe I did this, but I said, loosen up.
Let's have fun with this.
Well, a short time later, my tire went flat.
And of course, tires go flat, so this doesn't concern me at the time.
I'm not getting paranoid.
The next day, I go to pick up the tire, and the man at the tire shop, I mean, this man is all shook up.
He's like, I've been in this business for 20 years.
I've seen it all.
And he goes, and this long story about how things can end up in tires.
He said, but what happened, what you have, is physically impossible to happen.
He said, I want to know how you did this.
He hands me a ratchet extension, six inches long, half-inch ratchet extension.
This Bell Wish story really is beginning to seriously bother me, and I'll tell you why.
There are certain things about my family that I would never tell you and will never tell you.
And, you know, I think that's probably true of everybody everywhere, isn't it?
You know, certain family things, right?
So that's all I'll say about that.
But when I was young, we had a cane in our family, and the cane hung over the fireplace.
It was over our, you know, up on the mantle over the fireplace.
And that cane traveled with us, I guess, ever since I could first remember it being there until I went into the Air Force.
And then after I was in the Air Force, this is 22 years after I'm born, my parents divorced.
My father took possession of this cane.
Now, what was it about this cane?
This cane had been in our family since the Mayflower.
Actually, since the Mayflower.
And the cane traced every Arthur Bell name going all the way back that far, the Mayflower.
And my father, at the divorce, came into possession of the cane, and then it disappeared.
And I've asked my mom about it a bunch of times, and it's just, you know, it's gone.
And she says she's sorry she ever let my dad keep possession of the cane, that it should have gone to me.
That cane had our family history on it.
And so I don't claim any connection to this Bell Witch thing at all, in any way.
But then again, I don't know my full family history.
That cane just disappeared.
It is the Bell Witch.
Remember now, I was born in North Carolina, right?
And it is my birthday today, and I am a Belle.
Now, you know, that's just probably a lot of coincidence, but it is starting to freak me out.
Anyway, the story is not mine, it's Neil's, and we were to the point where, with Neil, where it was beginning to affect Neil personally, and that's exactly what we'll get back to in a moment.
Well, all right, Neil, let us continue with your story.
Yeah, after I was warned by, evidently, the Lord, you know, to not change the title to touch by a demon because I was trivializing the demon.
So anyhow, lesson learned.
So it starts getting even stranger.
But at this point, I realize that this is really, you know, I'm on dangerous ground here, and I have to get the biblical elements of the script.
In my script, I've got a preacher who's giving you the backstory and then explaining all this.
Because obviously, we wouldn't know.
The average church goer today doesn't read the Bible, so they wouldn't know.
And I don't know anything about the Bible, so I'm in trouble right here.
So I couldn't quote you a single verse at that time.
Anyhow, I realized, though, that I was going to have to get help.
Well, one night, I get ready to go to bed, and I don't usually go to bed like 2 o'clock in the morning.
And a little voice just said, go in and turn on this Christian radio station.
There's a program on you need to hear.
And I'm thinking, I'm tired.
Again, I'm arguing with God, evidently.
I'm tired.
I don't want to go, you know.
I want to go to bed.
So, anyhow, I get up and go do it eventually because it will not let me sleep if I don't go, you know, turn on the radio to the station.
As soon as I did, they had this, I guess he was a theologian with a PhD, and he was a very brilliant man, and he was explaining from a biblical perspective ghosts and demons and all of that, clarifying all that.
And he had just written a book, and I was able to go get his book the next day at a Christian bookstore, and it told me everything I need to know.
So right there, I had everything I need to know as far as to get that aspect of it right.
Well, anyhow, it starts getting a little stranger here when as I get deeper and deeper into the script, and then I'm warned by the preacher, and he really liked what I was doing, but he said, he warned me that Satan is not going to tolerate this because if this movie gets made,
and you reveal all this, you know, even though the movie's entertainment, these true facts will be revealed, and it could have a profound effect.
I mean, it could start a revival or something, and Satan just isn't going to stand for that.
And he warned me that as long as you stay on, you know, you don't sell out and compromise the biblical integrity, you'll be okay.
Now, you'll see some weird stuff, but you'll be okay.
But when I got ready to go to bed, that little voice, which I'm a, you know, the Holy Spirit just spoke to me and said, and it's just like somebody talking to you, just clear as a bell.
So I thought, well, it's just somebody in Hollywood.
At that time, I was sending out, you know, synopsis with the history and everything, basically the photo that she would receive.
And I just thought, well, somebody's having fun.
And that's their cell phone.
You know, they obviously wouldn't call from the office and they're just, you know, messing with me.
I didn't think much about it.
And I was getting ready to go back to North Alabama to some kinfolks home and spend Easter weekend.
It's Easter.
And to make a long story short, during this time before I got there, I was just over and over, it's like I was being told, now, you're going to encounter a demonic spirit, but don't be afraid.
You know, like a ghost, but you know what it is.
It's a demonic entity counterfeiting itself.
It's a ghost.
And don't be afraid.
You know what to do.
And just over and over, it was like I was being told this, and I was like, okay, I'm cool.
I can handle it.
It's not a problem.
You know, I was starting to get the big ad again.
So my uncle had bought this old house, and he had told me when I had first told him about what I was doing, about they were having trouble with a spirit thing in the house.
And I didn't know what in the whole world.
I had never heard anybody tell me that before.
And I said, well, we'll describe it.
And he said, well, it's sort of like a light that just sort of dances down the hall or in the room.
And I really just wasn't comprehending this.
And I'm going to try to make this really short to get to the point.
But so I'll go to their house and I notice this is Easter.
All the family gets together and the kids all come into town.
But nobody's, before dark, everybody seemed to sort of clearing out, you know?
Like nobody was going to stay there.
Something was wrong.
Why would they not stay at the house?
So, anyhow, I watched this.
It's Easter night, so I watched this Jesus film that my aunt had.
And anyhow, they give me the bedroom.
They're going to have some countless bedrooms in this house, a beautiful Old home.
And I go, and for some reason, I'm not putting this all together.
Is this stupid or what?
You know, I'm giving this warning that I'm going to encounter this entity.
And then, you know, I'm staying at the house that I was told they're having troubles in.
And so when I get to my room, well, first of all, I noticed these sounds, these funny sounds.
And I'm thinking, well, it's an old house.
They're like tapping sounds on the walls.
Well, I'm thinking, you know, no big deal.
I'm tired.
I'm going to bed.
And then all of a sudden I see like a star.
I mean, I don't know how to explain it, but it was like a, you know how the fireworks do and they explode, but yet it was much smaller, about the size of your fist.
The lights are still on.
And I thought, well, that's just my eyes.
You know, I'm tired.
You know, sometimes your eyes play tricks of you.
So I turned off the light.
And lo and behold, all of a sudden, I mean, I'm going to get the covers up.
Here is this thing dancing around in the room.
I mean, this light, and I don't know how to describe it.
It was like a giant lightning bug.
And it was actually very pretty.
But of course, I knew what it was.
And of course, at first, you know, I was arguing with my eyes, you know, like trying to, you know, put some logical explanation for this, come to some logical explanation.
Okay, so in my Bible school, when I was a kid, they did not have, you know, exorcism.
It was not part of the training.
So anyhow, I basically go through, you know, in the name of Jesus Christ, I, you know, demand that you leave or whatever.
Well, this thing got really excited when I did that.
I mean, it was obviously did not like that.
And I remember thinking to myself, Lord, don't let this thing get behind me and don't let it, you know, morph into anything else, kind of like on the exorcist.
You know, I can deal with Tinkerbell here, but don't, you know, after a while, I started sort of gaining confidence.
Tonight, you're hearing the story of the Bell Witch.
Now, I'm not sure that tonight in which my birthday occurs was the right time for me to do this, or maybe it was the only time for me to do it, and I don't want to really think that either.
My guest is Neil Sibley.
And we're going to tie up some loose ends for you coming up if you'll just stay exactly where you are.
Back now to Neil Sibley.
And all right, Neil, we are drawing short on time.
We'll get back to this spirit of the Bell Witch and how it sort of all the pieces fit together in the biblical lesson that we're going to learn from this.
Oh, okay, on the with the events as far as personal.
That stopped as of the point, what I did was I basically issued an ultimatum.
You know, I don't know if you're supposed to do this or not, but I said, Lord, I think I've got the hang of it.
I've seen enough.
Let's don't, I don't want to see any more of this stuff because I'll take this stuff and throw it in the trash, and you'll have to get somebody else crazy enough to do this.
So, but at the same time, I was, each one of these disturbing events was sort of a training lesson for me.
I was being sort of a, I guess, trained the hard way as far as how to information that I needed to sort of help convey this, you know, this biblical story.
If it didn't act up, then many people you could never make believe this.
It would always, I don't care how much you dug out of history books, it would never be real.
But the fact that this thing is acting up, and I suspect when we shoot the movie, it will show, well, I know it will, it will show up, and it will impress some of these actors, and they'll say something like, I didn't think this was real, but we experienced this and that.
Okay, now let me give you a quote from this thing made, which, and again, this was given to John Bell Jr. and was not revealed until 1934 in the book that was published by Dr. Charles Bailey Bell, his grandson.
And, you know, we've got to be careful with this thing because we, you know, I'm looking for this thing to see me, you know, at every behavior, you know.
A spirit such as you are listening to is a perpetual creation, not bonded by space or time, created by a power to whom this world must bow as an infinite being.
This being must be accepted by faith that can only be realized by a being being possessed of a soul, and that soul regenerated by the acceptance of Christ as the Savior of men.
His spirit has endured and will endure for all times, even after this world has ceased to be.
Now that's a pretty strong statement.
Okay, now it goes on to say, and I'll give you two more quick statements.
Do not think this presumptuous for such a spirit as I to be telling you of these things.
The Creator has used the devil himself in his plans and can use anything he wishes.
He may be using me, I do not know.
By the time I am to be here, let us hope I may be used in a way that may help future generations.
That he was dead, buried, and rose is just as true as that you were born.
Thousands of spirits, if allowed to talk, could tell you of that day after millions of years, knowing of the cruelties on earth, that to which Jesus Christ was subjected was the most affecting ever witnessed by the spirit world, both good and demon spirits.
Now this is, you know, so it's making it very clear that it's acknowledging Jesus Christ.
I'm not reading anything into this.
So if you were God and you wanted to put the fear of God back into people today, today's generation.
That's something everybody has to make their own decision.
That's a personal thing.
And this is not something you can force on people.
I'm fortunate that I had a Christian upbringing, and this experience is sort of, shall we say, sort of reinforced everything that I was taught that really didn't believe to that extent.
This is a wild story right here, and I was just wondering, the origin of this, does this have anything to do, just like the Kennedys, you know how they've been cursed for about 80 years?
Do you see any significance in it with that, to with this Bell story versus the Kennedy story?
And then, look, you could go, you could have a preacher there to give you a quick course on exorcism and then to give you one of those big black Take on the Devil Bibles, and you could go into the cave by yourself and deal with this live.
Wildcard line, you're on the air with a slightly annoying Neil Sibley.
unidentified
Hello.
Hi, Art.
Hi to you and your guests.
This is Kyle.
I just wanted to let you know there's a book on the market called The National Directory of Haunted Places from the 1990s by Dennis William Hawk Penguin Books.
And they have a big section here listed under Tennessee on the John Bell Farm.
He gives extra information.
He also has 22 references in here going back to, well, 1967 about what you were saying.
And also one other thing I wanted to add that some people thought, well, they called the witch Kate.
They thought it might have been the spirit of Kate Bates, who was a woman that John Bell had proposed marriage to.
And then they found her body near a well in the property in the late 1770s.
And soon afterwards, John married Lucy and moved to Tennessee.
One of the things that happened when I began to experience all this and talk about it, I was amazed at the number of people that would tell me their stories.
And these are normal church-going people.
They don't talk about this stuff.
And I could put together a book myself of incredible.
And evidently, there's a lot of this going on now.
And I heard a theologian say they're seeing more of the spiritual, both evil and good, in the last few years than they have in the last 75.