Art Bell

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June 17, 2002 - Art Bell

02:45:23

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Dr. Steven M. Greer M.D. - Cosmic Deception - Neal Sibley - Bell Witch

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41:55

dr steven greer

27:10

neal sibley

01:15:12

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Into this world without desert in the great American Southwest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be across this great land of ours, at whatever time it is where you are.
		It could even be, it could certainly be morning, afternoon, or evening as we cover the whole world one way or the other with way over 500 affiliates now.
		What a monster.
		It's called Coast to Coast AM, and I'm Mark Bell, and I'm happy to be here.
		And we've got a full night tonight.
		Dr. Stephen Greer wrote Cosmic Deception, Let the Citizen Beware.
		It came to me over the internet, and I snatched it up, put it up last week, and tonight, Dr. Greer is here to tell you all about it.
		Assuming that safely, I think, that all of you don't have computers, if you're wondering what he means by citizen beware, you're going to know in a few minutes.
		And then in the next hour, Neil Sibley on the Bell Witch.
		Oh, what a story there is to tell there.
		And some photographs.
		Now, I want to first say today is my birthday.
		And I'm 57 years old, young, whatever.
		I don't know.
		I've had mixed feelings about it all day today, but it's my birthday.
		So I will accept, say thank you.
		Birthday, thank you all very much.
		And we'll hope for 58.
		I'll tell you something.
		You need to go to my website.
		Look at my webcam shot.
		To the ham operators out there, you will know what I am holding in my hand.
		For non-hams, you probably won't.
		Suffice it to say that my network, consisting of zillions of people, Craig Kitchen, thank you, Craig, Alan Corbett, thank you, Alan.
		All the Premier.
		Thank you, Premier.
		Thank you, everybody in Oregon.
		This is the coolest gift anybody could ever hope to have.
		So the hams will understand what I just received.
		The others, suffice to say, it's a dream machine I'm holding in my hand.
		Actually, it's a box from the dream machine's already on the air.
		So, yes, my birthday.
		And then, of course, the Australian teleportation story.
		Oh, my God, folks.
		Guess what?
		The Australians have teleported a laser beam.
		Now, while it's a long way from teleporting a human being or even a solid object, it is incredible what they've done.
		They've sent a laser beam, deconstructed it, and reconstructed it across the lab.
		Now, they say they could do this over a great distance, and eventually one day, just like Star Trek, this may be the first or is it the second step, a big step toward that direction.
		In a moment, Dr. Stephen Greer, he used to be, was an emergency room physician, chairman of the Department of Emergency Medicine at Caldwell Memorial Hospital.
		He is founder of the director for the Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence, the Disclosure Project, and most recently, Space Energy Access Systems.
		You've heard Dr. Greer here, I think, many times before.
		I hope so.
		If not, then you're going to have to listen very closely to what's coming up.
		Dr. Greer has written Cosmic Deception, Let the Citizen Beware.
		And so, without taking any more time, we'll take care of Biz and come right back to Dr. Greer.
		And if you didn't get a chance to read it or you just want to know what he means, then don't touch that dial.
		Well, I guess you'd call this, I don't know, like a white paper, maybe.
		Dr. Greer, Cosmic Deception, Let the Citizen Beware.
		I call it a white paper.
		What do you call it?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's a briefing paper and a white paper.
		And, of course, we've been doing these for many years for people in the Pentagon and other places.
		I felt this one I needed to put out right away to the public because of the level of threat that I feel that this kind of disinformation that's mentioned in the paper involves.
		And I think it's very important for people to understand the degree to which there has been for many decades an attempt to manipulate the UFO information in a certain direction.
		And that direction being decidedly sort of a military response to the UFO problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you're in the defense industry, if you're building bombs and missiles and stuff like that, then you probably, what is it, a billion dollars a day I think we spend on our defense, a billion dollars would there be a day, and that's a whole lot of money.
		President Eisenhower told us to beware, military-industrial complex.
		And now we have enemies at the moment, but unless you have enemies, then you can't justify spending a billion dollars a day, can you?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it's even more than that.
		I think it's an entire question of a paradigm.
		What we have found is that, and the reason I wrote this paper, Cosmic Deception, is that while, of course, we know that there are UFOs that exist, we know that some of them are extraterrestrial.
		However, we also know that there are a number of them that are made by humans and that they have been used in countermeasures or disinformation events that include the attempts to hoax extraterrestrial events that would appear frightening to people.
		And I think that one of the problems with this is that there is a trillion dollar a year global military and industrial laboratory complex that for many decades, and some of the classified information that I have seen, have spoken of needing to create eventually an enemy out in space to justify the continued expansion of those resources, but also to control the way people react to the phenomenon.
		So it's a centralized and fear and control sort of response to the problem.
		And I think this is a very, very dangerous thing, and it's come to my attention that there will be an increasing effort to put that kind of information out into the public.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but the bottom line of what you seem to be saying is you believe it's possible, and just straight out question, do you believe it's possible the military or some cabal or group within the government or above the government, whatever the case might be, actually would stage an event to scare the hell out of us and justify lots of money for space-type weapons and fighting aliens and that kind of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that really the bottom line?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		I think that's exactly what has been planned.
		And in fact, this is something that let's go through a little bit of the reason why we're making this assessment.
		I began interviewing people as early as 1992 that had information on this particular plan.
		And as recently as a year or two ago, we had Wernher von Braun's spokesperson, Dr. Kiril Rosen, who was his spokesperson for Wernher von Braum for the last four years of his life, who said that he had specifically warned that there would be an attempt to do that after there was the period of the Cold War, that there would be a period of rogue states, and that would be followed by a global terrorism, a stage where we find ourselves today.
		And by the way, this testimony was acquired prior to 9-11, and that the Trump card that would be played would be a threat from space, and that there would be an attempt to hoax and to frame a presence in outer space that would be a threat so that we could justify a multi-trillion dollar, eventually a multi-trillion dollar buildup that would be completely a ruse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would happen politically, do you think, Doctor?
		In other words, not only would it mean lots of good military spending for us, but it would affect the world as well.
		And if somebody wanted to, I don't know, begin to get the world together under some sort of centralized, for some centralized purpose, wouldn't this fit that bill?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this would be an excellent way of doing that.
		And in fact, you know that Ronald Reagan several times in the 1980s stated to the United Nations and to the Council on Foreign Relations that, and I'm paraphrasing here, but I have a videotape of this speech where he says, you know, our job of creating a unity in the world would be easier if we had a common alien threat to unite against.
		And I think that unfortunately there is this tendency, instead of finding positive things to find unity over, perhaps some people have concluded it would be easier to create this kind of camaraderie on an international basis through fear.
		And unfortunately, this has worked in other scenarios.
		But in this one, this is the ultimate one.
		And I think it's a very, very dangerous path to go down.
		And I have to say that along the lines of this, you know, there was a man that we had brought to Washington in 1997, along with about 15 other military and intelligence witnesses, to brief senior members of Congress and Pentagon and White House officials that we had gathered in a closed meeting.
		This was April of 97.
		And this particular man, who was an intelligence officer, was going to tell the group that he had set in on planning meetings where there had been a very black, super-secret group that had been planning the use of these so-called alien reproduction vehicles that we talk about,
		these ARVs, that would be, of course, are made by humans that look very much like UFOs and use an anti-gravity propulsion system to engage in actions, including attacks on certain assets, to make it look like we were under attack.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How credible.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		James Mann was very credible, extremely credible, and his testimony has been corroborated to me by other people.
		I have a man who is an Air Force Officer of Special Investigations who knew of this plan.
		I have a gentleman who has been read into, quote unquote, other technologies that can simulate these kinds of events.
		You know, when I first heard it, you know, with this paper I wrote, you know, I opened it talking about, gee, what if somebody at this time last year came and gave you the scenario of what happened on 9-11?
		Most people, even if you were, you know, a writer for a TV show or a novel, would have been far out.
		Yeah, yeah, just too far out.
		This is crazy.
		And when I first started hearing these things, I said, oh, come on.
		Then I met a man, a very interesting gentleman whose testimony has also been corroborated by others, who was, quote, read into, and that's the term used in the military, a very top-secret technology that involved electronic warfare systems that could literally involve the control of people's awareness,
		their state of awareness, and their experiences, and that these have been used to induce what some people would call abductions, things that look like an extraterrestrial experience, but are hoaxed.
		This is not to say that people haven't had actual extraterrestrial contact.
		It's just to say that there's a whole lot of disinformation that's been put out there.
		And one insider told me back in 1994, after I met with President Clinton's first CI director, that in fact this whole thing is hidden in plain sight and that the activity that's been going on is, if you expose sort of this Wizard of Oz phenomenon, I call it, where there's some people behind some curtains pulling a lot of levers, deceiving people, that no one would believe it.
		That the deception is a more implausible, though true, explanation than having people believe it's actually all extraterrestrial.
		So there's an enormous amount of disinformation.
		And I liken it to taking, you know, you have a few gold nuggets of extraterrestrial events that have happened, and not a few, but a large number.
		But those have been hidden by covering them, laying on top of them, literally tons and tons Of fool's gold, and unfortunately, not enough people have been doing assays of this thing, and I think it's a big problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's a question for you, Doctor.
		You know, and I certainly believe, that UFOs are really, on occasion, extraterrestrial craft visiting Earth.
		So to me, that means that our government, our military at some level, they know they're here, and they're either frightened of them because they don't know, or they wish to figure a way to defend against them because they assume, as our military would, they're probably hostile, or at least could be hostile.
		That would be a military assumption to be on the safe side.
		And so maybe they would stage this actually they could believe in our own best interests so that we would begin to develop the technology that we might truly need.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, this is what I thought initially, but in actuality, it's a little more complicated.
		I think you're right that a lot of the people who are cogs in that machine do think exactly as you described.
		But in reality, the people who are really the insiders know that there's no objective threat from outer space, but that it's an incredible opportunity in terms of propaganda that if it's used in the right way, that can greatly expand a sort of a centralized militaristic kind of control mechanism over many, many peoples.
		For example, right now, there are projects that would like to eventually spend an enormous amount of funding on putting active warfare systems and weapon systems in place.
		And most people feel that's a reasonable thing to do if you're shooting down someone else's ICBM.
		Unfortunately, I've got folks who've worked on projects where these systems have been designed primarily to look not down towards the earth, but out into space, and in fact, have tracked and targeted extraterrestrial vehicles.
		And the people who have been personally present at those sort of things have told me that they saw that there was no threat coming from that direction, and that there is sort of an engent provocateur, a tendency towards to provoke a situation.
		And I think these are the kinds of games, the sort of gamesmanship, I might call it brinksmanship, that's very, very dangerous.
		And I think the world, because it's so easy to motivate people to fear and hysteria and that kind of thing, that the world is very vulnerable to this kind of manipulation.
		And I know that the first head of the Defense Intelligence Agency that I briefed, I brought this issue up, that there was a serious problem with senior military people who were not inside this sort of rogue and black operation being caught unawares.
		And certainly our political leaders, but even very senior military leaders could be caught unawares by what's been called a deception.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's imagine a deception for a second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We had, of course, the Phoenix Lights sightings.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was there when that happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you are.
		So we had that.
		But, you know, that came and it actually got to be a pretty big deal in the mainstream media, and it went.
		And it didn't change our policy in any way.
		Now, how big of a deception, describe for me how big a deception it would have to be to begin moving in the direction you believe they want to move?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, it would be very easy.
		For example, we have not only space and high atmospheric holographic systems, the holograms that could deceive people, but we also have these alien reproduction vehicles that are capable of going to space and back and that do function silently with anti-gravity systems that have been manufactured there at the north base of Edwards for many years.
		Lockheed and Northrop and others have worked on these.
		And these could be used in a scenario where, for example, certain national security assets within the traditional government were targeted, such as satellite systems or other assets.
		And it would look to everyone observing it like we were under attack by some very esoteric spacecraft from another world.
		Now, this kind of thing, I'm afraid, when you've got a rogue group of people that are not being supervised by the appropriate authorities within the constitutional chain of command, and I think quite frankly, this includes the U.S. President and the current U.S. President as well as past presidents, that there is a serious threat here that is real.
		And I would not have believed this myself if I hadn't come across so many people who had seen parts of this.
		And it's sort of a mosaic that you've got to put together.
		You can go all the way back.
		You mentioned this thing about the Australian laser system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		I have a witness, and it's in this book, Disclosure, that we put together.
		He's someone, name, rank, and serial number who was in the Canadian Air Force.
		And his name is Fred Trellfell.
		And he, in 1953, before I was born, witnessed a solid object teleported from one room to another with this advanced electronic device in Canada before I was born, almost 50 years ago.
		Now, imagine what kinds of toys there are within these covert classified projects and the degree to which many people and even very well-placed black projects at the Pentagon elsewhere may not be aware of these other projects and how vulnerable that makes them to false assumptions about something that could happen.
		I think already this has been going on.
		I think there's an enormous amount of false information about extraterrestrials in the open literature, in the media, and in the UFO research community because many of the people I've dealt with in talking to people who've had experiences with abductions clearly remember and recall military people and military helicopters present during their experience.
		Now, although this is usually covered up and whitewashed in the UFO community, it's something that's been reported for over 20 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, a lot of people would say it's ridiculous to imagine the United States would either start something or stage something, but Gee Wiz, remember the Gulf of Tonkin.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, I called this back in the early papers I wrote on our website, disclosureproject.org.
		I've got a link to a paper called When Disclosure Serves Secrecy.
		And it goes into this whole concept of sort of a cosmic Gulf of Tonkin.
		And it wouldn't be the U.S. government or the U.S. military as you and I think of it.
		I want to be very clear.
		99.9%.
		This is a very, very clandestine rogue group that has been managing this issue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, we're at the bottom of the hour.
		So hold on.
		In other words, not the U.S. government as we know it and love it or hate it.
		Probably more of the latter.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		Music You let it go.
		Come out there.
		Come let me play.
		What the people need is the way to make them smile.
		Inside the sand, the smell of the touch, the something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of the touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of blue leaves deep in the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and men to burst up through tarmac through the sun again.
		Or to fly through the sun without burning a wing.
		To lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing That all these things in our memories are And they use them to come To come To
		come Wanna take a ride?
		Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
		The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		And to reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why, our government do something deceptive?
unidentified		Our government?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's just, it's too incredible to even think about it.
unidentified		Our government doing something deceptive.
unidentified		My God, think about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could it really be?
		Once again, here is Dr. Stephen M. Greer from CSETI, and I've got a couple of really important questions for Dr. Greer.
		Dr. Greer, first of all, my question would be, and this is for everybody who's listening, I agree they exist, but, you know, I don't know that I'm comfortable personally that they are completely benign.
		How can you be so sure?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, I think that one of the points I make today, you know, this is the same question that was asked of me at the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in 1993 when my military guys and I went there to meet with the head of the Foreign Aerospace Science and Technology Division of Wright-Patterson, which was the division that the Roswell remains had been sent to.
		And the colonel there at the time asked me and brought this question up.
		And I said, look, given the things that I know that you guys have done, the fact that you and I are still breathing the free air of Earth would indicate that they're not hostile.
		That if they were, imagine this, your ability to travel through interstellar and, quote, interdimensional space at multiples of the speed of light with enormous knowledge of the fabric of space and time.
		And we have started going into space.
		We have nuclear weapons that can destroy entire worlds.
		If they were hostile in the sense that we understand hostility, you and I wouldn't be having this conversation tonight, Art.
		And I think that whether or not they are all in favor of the things that we are doing at this point is another question.
		I think probably not.
		And I think there are probably competing agendas.
		For example, we may want to go out into space and do some things that others may not want us to do until we learn to do so peacefully.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But, Doctor, isn't it possible that their intent toward us could be something less than immediate mortality?
		It could be genetic.
		There could be something else that we would not necessarily consider positive short of quick death.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, this may be true, but I don't see any evidence for it.
		And every time I interview someone who's really deep on the inside, who's had a lot of exposure to the subject, they just shake their head and they say, no, there's no evidence of these sorts of things, as much as we might like to fantasize about them because we kind of enjoy that kind of conflict as a people and as a culture.
		And I think we're rather addicted to these things, but I don't see any evidence for it.
		Now, what I do see evidence for, and this speaks to this directly, I interviewed two years ago a man who was too afraid to come forward at the time.
		And we're working right now with a very prominent public interest lawyer in Washington to put together affidavits for this kind of man and to secure their testimony.
		And this man had been an Army Ranger, and he had been in a special mission, a very super secret mission that was quite unrelated to everything else he had ever done in the military, where he went in on one of these special vehicles and literally abducted other military personnel to make them think that they had been abducted and abused by an extraterrestrial.
		And when I first heard this, he thought this would have been shocking to me.
		And I said, well, no, because this was in the year 2000.
		And I said, I already have several people like you I've already interviewed who have seen that and more.
		And he says, well, he said to me, you know, there are a whole lot of people out there who have been selected very carefully to go through this kind of an abduction.
		And they think that there is a threat out in space.
		And we're doing it so that they will think that.
		And I said, yes, I've heard this from other people.
		For example, some of the people who were present and involved with the abduction at 3 in the morning or so out of New York City, Paris DeQueer, the Secretary General of the United Nations, made to look like an alien encounter when it was done completely by these paragovernmental super secret projects using some very advanced systems.
		What I remind people of is that what you might have heard of on CNN is probably five to ten generations late from what exists within these super secret projects.
		Imagine 1953, we were teleporting things.
		Imagine 1958, I personally interviewed the man who invented electronics so that people could remotely view distant places in space.
		People who were working with very, very advanced electronic and electromagnetic systems capable of doing all kinds of things that would just make your hair curl, that sound like something out of Star Trek, but unfortunately actually do exist and can be used and in fact have been used in these sort of deceptive undertakings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, try this one on for size.
		You mentioned CNN.
		Well, what about CNN, say ABC, CBS, all the networks, in fact, reporting as the last story of the night something like this.
		The Defense Department today announced they had seen the destruction of two of their defense satellites by what they regard as possible extraterrestrial life.
		And then there'd be a little giggle.
		So in other words, the Defense Department is saying, two little green men destroyed two of our satellites.
		In other words, haven't they ruined their own deception?
		It's going to have to be awfully big for anybody to do less than, you know, give it the usual kicker story at the end with a little chuckle.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it's interesting.
		I once thought this as well, but it actually is running on several pathways on a parallel basis, in other words, contemporaneously.
		One of them is the one that you mentioned, which is all the tee hee hee ridicule little green men.
		And of course, I've been exposed to plenty of that, being in the position I'm in, as the disclosure project.
		On the other hand, there's this other thread that runs through this, which is very xenophobic.
		Things that are put out there that are hoaxed or exaggerated for the purpose of creating and instilling fear in people, which seems to be more along the agenda of not the 1953 CIA document that talked about having Disney studios make cartoons about UFOs to ridicule them,
		but seems to be more along the lines of the 1960s report from Iron Mountain, New York, where it was discussed that we would have to create a threat from outer space to justify the continued growth and expansion of a trillion-dollar-plus military, industrial, laboratory, and intelligence complex on this planet.
		So I think that there are several things going on, and these are not necessarily mutually exclusive strategies, actually.
		I think they actually serve various purposes at various times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, on the other hand, if they were to announce that a military installation had been destroyed with saucer sightings, that there had been some kind of beam from a saucer, and they'd have to have photographs, and there would be destruction, and there probably would be death.
		Now, that would mean that you would have to reach out and kill to create this deception.
		Do you think they would be prepared to go that far?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think they've already have done this.
		And in fact, I'm quite certain of the fact that there's an arm of this group that's extremely lethal.
		I kind of half-jokingly call it Murder Incorporated, that has, without any doubt in my mind at all, engaged in extreme behavior up to and including the taking of life.
		I don't believe that this is something that they would flinch at.
		One of the things that I think the power that's derived here is the deception.
		If people can get to the bottom of what's going on, and unfortunately it's not as neat and tidy as people are told when they look at this subject superficially, there are extraterrestrial events that take place, but there's also an enormous number of events that look extraterrestrial that I'm quite convinced are of man-made origin and are done so for deceptive purposes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you a personal question.
		Doctor, my program is now the second largest program in terms of the numbers of affiliates of any program in the country, right next to Rush.
		Right.
		Okay.
		And in fact, in terms of hours spent listening, my program is the number one program in America, hours spent listening.
		That's something a lot of people don't know.
		Now, is it reasonable to ask you, if they didn't want this discussed, particularly the kind of thing we're talking about right now, and these are people who would reach out and touch with murder if they had to, why do you think my program, after all, if they didn't want me here, I wouldn't be here, would I?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know that that's necessarily the case.
		I think there are a lot of things here that are protective.
		I mean, for example, long before we started talking about any of these things openly, publicly, we had meetings with folks at the Pentagon who are what I call the White Hats, which are 99%.
		I mean, the vast majority of people in our armed services and intelligence community are actually appalled at these kind of rogue operations.
		And I think that we began to talk with them, and there is a growing, not a diminishing, a growing amount of support in those quarters for what we are doing and for getting this information out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So maybe I'm certain.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but yes, in other words, there's an umbrella of protection that extends around some of this at this point that didn't exist five or ten years ago when, quite frankly, three people I know working on this issue with me were murdered.
		And I think that it's a very serious issue to begin to entertain what has to be put in place.
		And I think we've got a lot of that in place.
		But I think where the world is vulnerable and where our leadership, both military and civilian leadership are vulnerable, is the contagion of hysteria that could attend certain events.
		And my sole purpose in discussing this at this point, as far out as it may seem, is because I've seen too much evidence.
		I've talked to too many independent, corroborating insiders who've seen parts of this, quote, plan, and including this gentleman that we brought to Washington in 97, who had literally set in on planning sessions where this deceptive plan had been in great detail discussed, that I think that it's very important that people understand that knowledge is very powerful, that the value of a surprise deception is reduced by being able to discuss it.
		And I think that's why we're doing it.
		And quite frankly, I think that's why we're being allowed to do it, because there are a lot of folks.
		Remember, after I met with CIA Director Woolsey, two separate people told me that a third of the so-called MJ-12 group or secret group were supportive of what we were wanting to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then could it be that I serve, I serve a useful purpose?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		I think you serve a useful purpose.
		And I think that there are growing numbers of people within these very secret programs who did not even know what a lot of the agendas were that they were serving because it's so compartmented.
		And I think once they found out what it is, that there is a large and growing number of people who support what we're trying to do with getting the truth out about them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, if these are relatively benign beings, then why are we shooting at their craft?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		You know, I asked back in the early 90s, I asked a Navy intelligence guy who had personally witnessed one of these events, and I asked him, why are we doing that?
		He says, well, you know how dogs go around and pee on the corners of your property and mark their territory?
		He says, it's just that simple.
		It's that stupid and that arrogant and that simple.
		And I said, you've got to be kidding.
		He says, no.
		I mean, you know, a lot of this, I mean, people get too grand in their thinking.
		Imagine this.
		We have, for example, witnesses who are on your show when you're back without the gentleman, George Norrie, hosted us, who corroborated these objects, hovering over ICBMs and taking 16 to 20 of them offline on a single evening.
		We have other people who have testified that when we've tried to do certain things out in space, that they have not allowed us to do it because they didn't want these kind of weapons out there.
		Well, this might make some people very frustrated, and you are humans.
		And I think that there is a little bit of a test going on there that's not been supervised and looked at very thoroughly.
		And see, here's one of the dangers is that these guys who are present at those events didn't feel that the extraterrestrials were hostile, but they were trying to send us a message about our hostility.
		But you could see how that could be misinterpreted in these hermetically sealed compartments that are only looking at this issue through sort of military-colored glasses or conflict-colored glasses.
		And this is why disclosure is so important.
		It's such a dangerous thing for this kind of extreme secrecy.
		You know, Roscoe Hillenkeeter, the first CIA director in 1960 or 61, wrote a letter after he left the position of CIA director stating that the secrecy surrounding UFOs was a threat to the national security.
		He never said UFOs were a threat.
		He said the secrecy surrounding the subject was a threat to the national security.
		Fascinating.
		And this was a man who stuck his neck way back there.
		I mean, you know, I was a five-year-old kid when he said that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then if you read between those lines, what do you read?
		The secrecy surrounding the UFO being kept secret, that whole thing is a threat to national security.
		Not the UFOs, but the secrecy is a threat.
		So read between the lines, what does he mean?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		What he's saying is that the people such as President Eisenhower, who we now know through the testimony of Brigadier General Lubkin, who's a disclosure project witness, and others, were being kept in the dark, that the people in the National Military Command Authority,
		the people who are in senior levels of the Pentagon that I have personally briefed, who have been appalled at what they have been denied access to, I personally briefed to one of the heads of intelligence for the Joint Chiefs of Staff who was told he didn't have a need to know after he located a compartment at MJ-12 Operation.
		And I mean, these things are a threat to the national security because of the element of deception that can take place, but also because they don't know what they're dealing with when they inadvertently come across these things.
		And they aren't adequately briefed, and often very dangerous actions are taken.
		the extreme secrecy surrounding this and the sort of extreme compartmentalization way beyond a normal black project but doctor imagine But imagine our biggest national security people sitting around a table, maybe with some scientific advisors or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And as you pointed out yourself, these would be beings who cross, you know, more light years than we could even imagine very quickly, who could probably dispose of entire worlds.
		And you're sitting there making a decision to shoot one of these craft down.
		Now, you know, that would be some conversation.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		It is, but I think they know that they're essentially not hostile and that this is the other point.
		They would like to see situations evolve where they could justify a conflict.
		And I think this is what is so dangerous.
		I mean, you have to know that there are enormous vested interests, not only in terms of finances and funding, but in terms of worldview, paradigm, a sort of a way of controlling the way things are through centralized, fear-oriented military control as opposed to other more positive things.
		This is not in any way to slam the legitimate defense needs of the United States or other countries.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, fear is a great motivator.
		Look at what 9-11 has accomplished.
		My God, it's slammed the economy.
		I can't even begin to detail all that's actually done other than bring down the buildings and hit the Pentagon.
		It's stunned the entire nation.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, unfortunately, there are people who I think would be happy to see other scenarios unfold that would be very frightening to people in the long run.
		I'm not saying this is going to happen next month, but it could.
		And when I had someone call me who is attached to one of the wealthiest media people in the world, and is that person's personal representative in the media, and say that, you know, we're doing in the hundreds of millions of dollar thing to put out information that will be very frightening to people on this subject of UFOs and extraterrestrials.
		I sat up and took notice.
		And When I then heard another person talking to me about a scenario that could be hoaxed along these lines, it became very, very disconcerting to me.
		I think when I say the reason I decided to write this paper, Cosmic Deception, is to remind people to stay calm, to look very skeptically at things that happen, and to be sure and begin to look at who would benefit from scenarios that would be frightening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Without naming the witnesses, Doctor, I am curious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is interesting, how many sources have conveyed this possibility to you separately, separate sources?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have a whole list of these that we're working.
		It's around a dozen now of very serious people and people whose credentials check.
		And like I said, when I first started hearing these things, because I thought like most people, gee, you know, people reported these experiences.
		It cracked like a duck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It looked like a duck.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		It wild like a duck.
		It had to be a duck.
		It turned out that wasn't true.
		And between 1992 and now, in the last 10 years, I have just found too much evidence to support that there is something very fishy going on and that there is an attempt to manipulate this subject in a direction that puts us on a war footing for reasons that are obvious if you begin to analyze who would benefit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We're about out of time.
		Last question.
		What would you want people to do?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		A couple of things.
		First of all, just be aware.
		They can, you know, on your site and on our website, disclosureproject.org, they can read this assessment.
		They can also read this other thing, the disclosure serves secrecy, which goes into greater detail on that.
		I think the other thing is that people can help us identify more of these direct witnesses to this deception.
		We are actively looking to put under affidavit people who have knowledge of this scheme and who are willing to come forward, preferably identify, but if they are not identified, so long as we can have them vouched for, we'll work with them.
		So people who can contact me at our website, disclosureproject.org, and get us that information of those sorts of people, both victims of these events, as well as people who had first-hand knowledge of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You got it, Doctor.
		We're out of time.
		Thank you.
unidentified		Great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		And happy birthday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
unidentified		Imagine.
		One, two, yeah.
		What is this coming for?
		Absolutely nothing.
		Uh-huh.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be here or there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right?
unidentified		What is it good for?
unidentified		Absolutely nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hell, can you?
unidentified		Whoa.
		Look out.
		What is it good for?
		Absolutely.
		Listen to me.
		Oh, no.
		Can't get no connection.
		Can't get through where are you?
		Well the night with everyone is guilty mine.
		Let's go from the borderline.
		Oh, damn well, yes, and she did.
		Have you been?
		How am I stepping into this white eyes zone?
		Laying me down, feet of my feet, phone.
		My feet are scared from all the new and star.
		Where am I to go now that I've fallen apart?
		How am I stepping into this white eyes zone?
		Laying me down, feet of my feet, phone.
		I need a finger when the moon has stopped.
		Where am I to go now that I've gone apart?
		It's a time to go when a bullet hits the bone.
		When you're going down the road when a bullet hits the bone.
		When a bullet hits the bone.
		Ow!
		To rechart bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222 or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you would think that a guy named Bell would know about the Bell Witch, wouldn't you?
		But that's one story I actually know very, very little about.
		That's about to change.
		Trust me, that's about to change.
		What's coming up is a sharp left turn from where we were, or is it?
		That could be up for debate, I suppose.
		Neil Sibley is here, and he knows, believe me, about the Bell Witch, for it haunts him.
		We'll get into all of that.
		It is indeed my birthday, as I mentioned in the first hour.
		Those who haven't seen it, my birthday present from the wonderful people at Premier is contained in my hands on my webcam photograph on my website.
		So you go to my website, rbell.com, and then you click on program and the webcam, and there I will be holding the box in which it came.
		And actually, when I get off the air this morning, 2 o'clock Pacific time, I'll appear with my new gift in full regalia operating on 3830.
		For about 2 a.m., if you happen to be up, if you're a night person, you might make it to 75 meters and 3830, and there I will be talking on my birthday gift.
		All right, stand by because what's coming up is going to be somewhat, What's a good word?
		Chilling, I think, is a pretty good word.
		Chilling.
		All right, Neil Sibley is from Tennessee, so you're going to hear a little southern accent.
		He's a graduate of the University of Tennessee with a BS and MS in agricultural business.
		He has worked for a Fortune 500 corporation in the sales department for over a decade now.
		He left a rather secure career to pursue script writing full-time.
		He's written four complete screenplays, several more stories that he's developing, including a romantic comedy, which is in the works at the moment.
		One of his finished screenplays, a dramatic comedy called Our Family Trouble, has led Neil to believe that he is under spiritual attack from demonic spirits.
		The screenplay, which is based on historical events from the early 1800s at the farm of John Bell, no relative as far as I know, where a witch, really a demonic spirit, was said to have kept the Bell House in turmoil.
		Even Andrew Jackson came to investigate during the original haunting and left after his coach wheels stopped mysteriously dead.
		Many visitors to the house have seen furniture crash about them, heard the witch shriek, sing, and curse.
		Neil wanted to write a movie script that would convey a biblical theme, yet be commercially viable.
		He says he asked God for such a project and vowed that he would take on the devil himself if he had to.
		He says as a result of prayer, the story of the bell witch haunting was revealed to him under very unusual circumstances.
		After reviewing the script, a preacher warned him that he was on Satan's number one enemy list.
		A preacher warned him he's on Satan's number one enemy list.
		Here is Neil Sibley.
		Neil, welcome to the program.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Art.
		Being Satan's number one enemy, that's a wonderful title.
		I just wish it paid better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if I forget the title, you know, having a priest say that to you.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is a Southern preacher, Baptist preacher.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Southern Baptist preacher, whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any preacher telling you you're his number one enemy, Satan's, that one would cause you to lose some sleep at night.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, it's this has been quite of an experience.
		I really didn't know what I was getting into.
		I don't think I would have possibly not have volunteered for this if I'd known exactly, but I guess you need to be careful when you ask the Lord for something like this, and you'll take on the devil himself, because he may just give it to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You may get what you wish for, huh?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Give me sort of a 101.
		I don't know why.
		With a name like mine, I wouldn't know the history of the Bell Witch, but fill us all in a little bit on the history of the Bell Witch.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Okay, this event started, first began in 1818 on the frontier in Middle Tennessee.
		And what occurred was there was a family that was a first-generation pioneer family, and they had been on this farm for about 10 to 15 years.
		And they were considered to be a fine, upstanding Christian family and sort of the pillars of the community.
		But one day, while John Bell was on the backside of his farm, he saw a strange-looking animal that he could not identify, which was not all that unusual on the frontier, because you would encounter animals that you had not seen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		And this animal looked like a dog, but evidently it was not a dog.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, he fired his flintlock rifle at the animal, and when he did, it simply disappeared into the thin air.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		So.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old was Mr. Bell at that point?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		He was roughly 65 to 70 years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he was an older fellow.
		An older fellow.
		And it just disappeared.
		You know, I've had, when we do ghost nights, I have had people describe dogs that weren't dogs, that disappeared and did other things as well.
		That's not so unusual.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		I've read actually many accounts of that, of supposedly the way the accounts I read, that the devil himself can take the form of a dog for whatever reason.
		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's why I have cast.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		But it wasn't a good sign.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, not a good sign at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But still, not anything that would have drawn Andrew Jackson to come and visit to try and see.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		What happened then was at about the same time, the children began to see strange animals that they could not identify.
		And then sometime afterwards, they began to hear scratching sounds on the windows and the door and knocking sounds.
		Of course, when they would go to investigate, there would be nobody there.
		And very brief, over, you know, in a short time, these sounds had moved inside of the house.
		And what you heard was basically like wings flapping, dogs growling, as if they were chained together and fighting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, brother.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it began to escalate.
		And eventually it got to the point where the children were being attacked.
		Their hair would be pulled, their bed sheets would be pulled off the, you know, off of them during the night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That sounds like what people call a poltergeist.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
		At this point, this would not be extremely weird based on documented accounts of such hauntings.
		But what happened was it escalated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, it doesn't come, a real haunting doesn't come full force immediately, but it builds.
		And it begins with the simpler things like one would regard a poltergeist or something.
		Simple things, sounds and maybe images of non-earthly type animals, that kind of thing.
		And then it builds from there.
		Maybe it can't all happen at once.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, in this case, in this case, it's really in a class all by itself.
		I mean, there is nothing that compares to this haunting.
		It eventually developed, well, what happened before it actually spoke, the house would actually shake as if a clap of thunder went off in the house.
		And during the first year, John Bell did not want his wife or his, he had six or seven children living in the house at the time, none of them to speak of this to the neighbors for fear that they would think that they were practicing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was about to ask you how much, oh, witchcraft, how much of a family he had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he had a big family.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		A big family.
		And the main characters in this setting are, you have, of course, John Bell, his wife, Lucy Bell, and then you have the older son, John Bell Jr.
		Then you have Betsy Bell, and then you have three little brothers.
		Now, they had some older children, but they had already married and moved out of the house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But still, that's a lot of witnesses.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		But right, right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or victims.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		This goes on.
		This is just getting started.
		This goes on for four years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Four years.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yes, four years.
unidentified		And very shortly after the first year, it began.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, at that point, John Bell began to come down with some type of physical disorder.
		He had difficulty swallowing, and he had difficulty chewing.
		It was a nervous disorder.
		Of course, you can imagine one's nerves would start to wear down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'd be an absolute wreck if this was escalating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when it began to attack your children...
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Of course, they could not, you know, you couldn't just move away from it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's exactly where I was going.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, what I was going to say, I'm getting ahead of myself here, but when this entity, what they did was they asked a preacher finally to visit the home and to pray for him because they knew that after the first year, this thing wasn't going away on its own.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what happened?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, he and his wife stayed the night, and he prayed, read a chapter from the Bible, and after that they went to bed, and then this thing just started literally raising hell, basically.
		And it was worse than ever that night.
		And it began, they could hear like its lips, you know, like it was trying to talk.
		Lips smacking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		And then it would just laugh.
		Okay, so it started laughing.
		Of course, this is really starting to get serious.
		And after a few nights, it actually developed a voice.
		And the first actual thing that it spoke that you could actually understand what it was saying, it regurgitated the preacher's prayer in his voice.
		So accurate that you could not tell it was not the preacher.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see, I don't know about John Bell, and he may have been locked into the farm and couldn't leave.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, the reason he didn't leave was when it started talking, it told him it was going to stay until it killed John Bell, and then it said, you're not going to run.
		I can follow you all the way to hell.
		So don't even think about running.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		So forget that.
		That's out of the.
		It's not an option.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
		Oh, God.
		So by this time, it was conversing in a voice that could be understood.
		It was heard.
		I presume it was heard by John Bell and his wife and his children.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Everybody that was in the house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everybody in the house.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		It was very easy to understand.
		And when it began talking, it made it very clear that it was going to stay until it killed John Bell would never say why.
		But it said the mother, Lucy Bell, was the best woman that ever lived, and it loved her.
		Absolutely loved her.
		Praised her.
		Would sing songs in the voice of an angel.
		This is really, I mean, let me just warn you.
		This is going to get weird before the night's over.
		There's two kinds of weird.
		There's weird, and then there's crazy weird.
		Regular weird is where you tell your story and people say that's weird.
		Crazy weird is where they say you're crazy.
		So I don't want to get too weird too fast, but it is going to get pretty strange.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Quite all right.
		You pace yourself, Neil, the way you want.
		Look, obviously, at some point, to get Andrew Jackson down there, at some point this hit the press even back then in the 1800s, huh?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
		As soon as the community got involved, the word went out.
		Andrew Jackson did not live that far away.
		He was 30 or 40 miles away.
		And Andrew Jackson knew the family because John Bell Jr. had served as his aide in the battle of New Orleans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		So they were, you know, he was a, General Jackson was friends with the family.
		So he did eventually come to the farm, and he stayed one night.
		Now, it did treat him with respect, but it attacked several of the men that came with him.
		And so, you know, they didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All of that's historically recorded?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yes, this is all historically recorded.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		I would think that you know all about this.
unidentified		I know someone that you really don't know this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't know.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		I just feel that you're going to trace your roots back to this farm.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		I just.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I said no relation, but I have no way of knowing that, of course, for sure.
		And frankly, I hope there is no relation based on what's happened to you.
		hope there's no relation uh...
unidentified		so this became It was national news?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yes, national news.
		They had an open house policy.
		Anybody could come that wanted to come, and they would not charge them to stay at the house and try to figure out what this was.
		And, of course, at the same time, it took pressure off of them.
		Now, when this thing started talking, and it would physically attack people.
		I mean, it would attack Betsy Bell, and it would hit her so hard, slap her face, that you could see the marks.
		She was only 12 years old.
		You could see the marks on her face and drag her across the floor by her hair.
		So it was hideous to some, but yet to others, it was nice, and it tendered to.
		This doesn't make any sense.
		And it's obviously, you know, I'm looking at this from a biblical perspective.
		It's obviously a demonic spirit.
		Well, but yet its favorite topic is the Bible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, wait.
		You say obviously a demonic spirit.
		How do you know that?
		You say its favorite topic is the Bible.
		How do you know it's a demonic spirit?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we're going to get there before the night's over.
		And we're also going to reveal for the first time why this thing was allowed by God to do what it did.
		Now, that's what it claimed.
		It told John Bell Jr. after it did eventually four years later kill his father that it was allowed by God to do what it did and it could not tell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was a reason for it.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Future generations would benefit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so then that would account for why it could not be exorcised.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A priest or priest would come and try exorcisms and it would be.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a good point.
		I'm glad you brought that up.
		Yeah, yeah, let me explain this.
		According to the Bible, anybody that's right with the Lord essentially could exercise a demonic entity.
		You simply call on the Lord.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Okay?
		Yes.
		But it's supposed to flee at the mention of Jesus Christ, okay?
		Well, this thing said right off the bat, it told them, nobody can remove me from where I choose to go, but Jesus Christ himself.
		You're wasting your time.
		And it would just laugh at them.
		So what it's saying is, this story just really takes a weird turn.
		I'm here by the authority of Jesus Christ.
		Now, how does this make sense?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it doesn't.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't make sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		And it will before the night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, why do little children's lives get taken at two weeks, you know, by some kidnapper or parent who doesn't really want a child and they're tossed in trash cans?
		Why do those things happen?
		We ask that kind of question about God all the time.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Right, right, right.
		Well, this, I can't answer that question, but I will be able to answer before the night's over why this thing was allowed by God.
		The pieces of this puzzle fit together, and you're sort of the last link.
		You're the one, you know, to be able to reveal this to the nation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, great.
		Put that on me.
		A guy named Bell.
		I wonder if I should be concerned.
		And, you know, all the years that I've been doing this program, I've had references to the Bell Witch.
		People have mentioned it many times.
		But for some reason, I've never chosen to research what the Bell Witch really was all about.
		And I wonder why it's called Bell Witch.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is why.
		When it first appeared, or made its presence known, the slaves on the farm, the servants, they labeled this a witch.
		Now, I think that terminology is comparable to demon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was the terminology of the day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said they were afraid of being called witches, right?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, these were the slaves, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, but I mean the Bell family.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they were afraid that the community would think they were practicing witchcraft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly so.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Now, we're going to find out later.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on, Neil, hold on.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		We'll be right back.
		Neil Sibley is my guest.
unidentified		Subject, the Bell Witch.
		Crying on the corner, waiting in the rainlight.
		Well, I'll never ever wait again.
		You gave me a word, a word for you all day.
		Going in my wild dreams, I never thought of you.
		We'll see you next time.
		And what you've got planned, carry your cup in your hand.
		Look around, you look around, and the sky is a hazy state of winter.
		Hang on to your hopes, my friend.
		That means you've been the same as your hopes to pass away.
		Simply pretend that you can be a good day.
		Look around, you're at the sky, and the sky is a hazy state of winter.
		It's the springtime of my life.
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nai.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, some of you may be aware, others not, that my wife Ramona has been known to perhaps dabble in the craft a bit, and that would make her the Bell Witch, right?
		This is a pretty sensitive topic for both of us a lot of ways.
		Well, this is really puzzling to me.
		Really, really puzzling.
		It says here, the Bell Witch eventually killed John Bell in December of 1821.
		It refused to say why, remember, this thing could talk, saying only that God allowed it to do so to benefit future generations.
		Now, that's about one of the craziest things I've ever heard.
		God would send an entity to earth to kill someone to benefit future generations.
		How did...
		I'm sure it didn't.
		How did John Bell die?
		Do you know?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, it eventually just wore him down.
		It was, of course, psychologically and physically attacking him.
		And his physical disorder, you remember I mentioned that he had like a nervous tick and he couldn't swallow and eat.
		But it took credit eventually as it became bedridden.
		And by the way, after it became bedridden, and The family members were trying, and the doctor would try to administer medicines or whatever to him.
		It was simply hovering over him, saying, It's no use, I'm going to kill him.
		So it eventually took credit for poisoning him while the family members were out.
		And it was, they did discover a strange bottle of poison of medicine that was not, you know, they did not recognize it.
		And when they took a cat and, you know, took a straw and gave the cat a small dose of it.
		And within, they said about an hour or so, the cat died.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it was poison.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		It was poison.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Now, where it came from, you know, the witch took credit for it, or the demon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People have to remember 1821.
		That was a different world.
		Don't relate what you're hearing to today's world.
		1821, folks, you know, Andrew Jackson time, very, very different world.
		No forensic labs, none of that baloney.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you give it to a cat, the cat dies, poisoned.
		I understand.
		All right, so it killed him, which would mean to me, based on what it's, Do we understand, do you understand at all, Neil, why God would send something like this to kill somebody?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		We're going to eventually reveal that, but I kind of have to need to kind of go through the story before all these pieces will begin to fit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do it your way.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		You can imagine that this has been a mystery since 1821.
		So it wasn't until just recently that a piece of information was discovered, a manuscript.
		It had been sealed since 1841 that allowed us to put the pieces together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So anyway, after it kills Mr. Bell, then you would think its job is done, right?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Now, the family was afraid that it would turn its wrath completely on the daughter.
		But it began to...
		And then it began to be nice to her.
		It began to reassure her that it would not harm her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Now, the older son, John Bell Jr., was highly intelligent, and he absolutely was unafraid of this, and he called it a demon from hell, and that he even essentially said to its face, but it wasn't, obviously it didn't appear, that it was so evil that its fellow demons couldn't get along with it.
		I mean, he took nothing from it, but it always professed to like him, even though they would get in sharp verbal debates.
		And even once, it even said, I don't know why I don't strike you.
		But he was not afraid of it.
		Whereas the mother always tendered to it.
		She would thank it after it would do something nice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the family members were reacting to it in a very different way, weren't they?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
		The mother felt that you weren't going to do anything about it, so you might as well just go along.
		Maybe if you be nice to it, it would, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Be nice back.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Betsy Bell, she was the daughter?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		She was a daughter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She was a daughter.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		And she was about 12 years old when this thing first occurred, but it began to be nice to her, but Betsy would not respond to it.
		I mean, once you had been attacked by this thing, you didn't want to talk to it.
		And what's interesting about this thing, though, is during, and it's really, it's going to get weirder and weirder.
		That's fine.
		It had a sense of humor.
		It loved to pull pranks.
		It loved jokes.
		But yet it loved to preach from the Bible.
		That was his favorite subject.
		It could quote the Bible faster than he could turn the pages.
		And it would preach the message with total accuracy.
		Now, supposedly a demon is supposed to mix truth with lies to take you away from the Lord.
		This thing didn't do that.
		So this has got everybody really puzzled.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was renamed as though it preached.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Right.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		With total accuracy.
		And it was praising the Lord and acknowledging Jesus Christ.
		Now, this thing ain't supposed to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		This is not fitting into the Bible the way it's supposed to fit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I tell you, I have interviewed people like the late father Malachi Martin and other exorcists, and this story does not fit into any of those molds at all.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		No, now, interesting, though, John Bell Jr., he felt that this was similar, though, in the book of Job, in the Old Testament, where God did allow Satan to attack.
		Don't ask me why, I'm not a Bible scholar, but he allowed Satan himself to attack his servant Job, but he could not kill him.
		And Job, under this tremendous persecution, remained faithful to the Lord.
		But anyhow, the only thing that they could parallel this to and make sense out of it was for some reason God was allowing this to happen to this good man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And to Betsy, and you say in here that it was being nice to Betsy, and yet there came a time when it would not allow Betsy Bell to marry her boyfriend?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		That was its second agenda.
		It would not allow, and it would never say why.
		Now, this just did not make sense to me at all when I'm studying this.
		It demanded that she not marry, and this was a fine person, well-respected, and he lived a good life and would have been a good husband.
		But for some reason, at the time, it demanded, and it made it very clear that it would see that, you know, they would never have a happy life and it would see to it.
		So what could she do?
		But we nigged on her promise to marry this boy.
		Oh, God.
unidentified		You know, I mean, was this thing talking to this family of collectively every day?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Every day.
		It got to the point to where it wasn't just at night, it was during the daytime.
		Guests from all over the country would come and stay.
		You even had scientists from England come.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had heard that, yes, that it was investigated.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		It hated people that came.
		If you came to the, you had certain people that came and said they could exercise it, but yet through sort of occult ways.
		And it would sort of let Them get set up and get going, and then it would just raise hell.
		Certain people that it, though, it liked.
		Generally, if you were a Christian in good standing, now there's a big difference.
		You were treated kindly.
		For example, the preacher that first gave the prayer, it always referred to him as old Sugarmouth.
		But it said he was the best man in the whole county.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Old Sugar Mouth.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, it had a sense of humor, and it wasn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't make sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, it just doesn't.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, it will before the Knights of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, it said its mission was to kill John Bell.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it did it.
		Right?
		It killed John Bell.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		And after that, it killed him in December of 1820, and it left a few months afterwards.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		But it vowed it would return in seven years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It said it would come back.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think I had a selled farm at that time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, that makes me begin to think that this has something to do with the Bell lineage.
		Why would it...
		Why would it...
		If it was on a mission from God, why would it...
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Let me say this much.
		It was, from a biblical perspective, this thing was simply the way I would explain this.
		It was a demon.
		It even acknowledged that it was doomed for eternity to live in misery.
		It had no chance of happiness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everybody would ask themselves why God would deal with the demon.
		But, you know, there are people in this country that believe that the U.S. government dealt with the mafia to get Castro.
		I'm not kidding.
		So dealing with the devil.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, what way I would explain this is, you know, of course, we don't know that it's telling the truth at this point.
		It liked to tell lies and then laugh about how foolish people were to believe them.
		But yet, to John Bell Jr. and to Lucy Bell, the mother, it always said, I'll profess to tell the truth.
		And by the way, it had four different voices.
		Three of them were female, and one of them was like a boy before his voice changes.
		Now, that's the one it used when it most wanted to be believed.
		Now, one of the voices they called Black Dog.
		When Black Dog showed up, somebody was going to get their butt kicked.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Physically.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Physically.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Now, if you were drinking, and if you got drunk, and they would have, like at harvest time, they would have where everybody got together, all the workers and slaves and all the family members, and they would have a big festival.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		And of course, they passed, back then, everybody in Tennessee, you had a steal on the land.
		And they passed around the jug, and this thing would always show up when you got drunk, and it wouldn't show up drunk.
		And all four voices would start talking at once, as if they were arguing among each other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		And I've got a wild party.
unidentified		And this is all pretty well documented, I think.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		The documentation on it is what first just absolutely blew me away.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Now, I think it's a good idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In what ways, Neil?
		I mean, were there extensive newspaper articles?
		Was a lot of the documentation local?
		Obviously, it was a national story.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was a national story, but evidently over the years, for some reason, it is little known outside, until recently, outside of the region in middle Tennessee where this haunting occurred.
		Now, I had never heard of this before I got involved in this.
		And it simply was by chance.
		Well, it literally came to me.
		The story did.
		I'm kind of avoiding your question here, but I'm going to come back to your question you asked.
		I came home one day, and there was a book on my desk, a history book on Southern history, and for the first time I read the story of the Bell Wichomi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's in Southern history books.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was in a Southern history book.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		I don't remember the title of the book, but what's really strange is I had gone to Natchez, Mississippi to meet with my partner, and I had told him about this weird feeling I had for this movie about, you know, I'm a comedy writer, so this is really weird that I would be doing something like this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's really not at all in your mind.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		No, this is not my ball of wax.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		I've only seen two scary movies in my life, The Wizard of Oz and The Exorcist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Wizard of Oz.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		I was five years old.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		It scared the devil out of me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, well, all right.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		You know, they killed the witch, but they didn't kill the flying monkeys.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		They left the flying monkeys out of the church.
unidentified		That's right.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		They should have killed the flying monkeys.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the paranormal in general is not your thing.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		No, no, it is not.
		This is not my bottle of wife.
		So, anyhow, I had this feeling for this story.
		It just sort of overpowered me.
		It's like I knew this was my next story.
		And so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, where are you?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		I'm in Mississippi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're in Mississippi, all right?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Mississippi.
		So I went to Natchez, Mississippi, visit my partner.
		I told him, you know, my basic outline.
		I come back home.
		Here's this history book.
		And for the first time, I read the story of the Bell Witch.
		Well, at that point, I look on the map.
		I'd never heard.
		I mean, I couldn't believe I'm from Tennessee.
		I'd never heard of this thing.
		But I knew right away this was my story, even though it scared the dickens out of me.
		I looked on the map.
		Adams, Tennessee, I was born less than 10 or 15 miles from that farm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		And as a little kid, I always knew someday I would write movie scripts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wouldn't there have been living that close an awful lot of people?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, when I was three years old, I moved when I was three.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good point.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		But we did return quite often because we had friends there.
		But I had never heard of the Bellwich of Tennessee.
		So, anyhow, after I got involved in this, well, let me, I guess I need to back up and really finish the story here, don't we?
		What it did after it came back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you wouldn't mind.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		When this thing returned in seven years later, it spent, it made a brief appearance at the Bell home.
		At that time, only Mrs. Bell and two or three of the children were still living there.
		John Bell Jr. had moved out on the back side of the farm and built his own cabin.
		He was about to be married, but he wasn't yet married.
		Well, this thing spent three months with him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Three months.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Three months.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Now, he didn't tell his mother and his younger brothers and sisters because he didn't want them to worry about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do we know what it was saying or do we?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we did because that information was released in 1935 by John Dale Jr.'s grandson.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		It was not released until then because the family wanted to distance themselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I bet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In what form did he?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		In 1935, Dr. Bale, I think he was a neurosurgeon in Nashville.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Released his book, The Bellwich of Tennessee, A Mysterious Spirit.
		He released this or published this book, and it was really the first full account.
		Now, one of the younger sons, in about 1841 or 1842 or something, wrote a manuscript, "Our Family Trouble." And he was very young at the time, and he gave his account, but of course, he did not have a full account because...
		Right.
		And of course, that's where I got the title for my screenplay.
unidentified		Huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, anyhow, when he came back, John Bell Jr. stayed three months.
		It just simply wanted to be civil.
		Of course, he did not want to talk to it.
		I mean, he hated this thing with a passion.
		Seven years later, he still felt the same wrath toward this thing as he did the day he killed his father.
		But it just wanted to talk, and it said that it had been in the Dutch West Indies for seven years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's incredible.
		So when this thing just continues to exist, it did whatever it did.
		It killed John Bell, but still.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, it demonstrated incredible power during the original haunting.
		It would sort of say manifest fruits that they could eat.
		Some of these fruits they had never seen before.
		They were from the tropics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had people fast-blasting me saying, ask you about these fruits that would just suddenly appear out of nowhere.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		When Mrs. Bell would be having Bible studies at the house, and this thing would be singing along in the voice of an angel, it would manifest fruits for her.
		You know, it was doing this to sort of...
		They said the first time it did that, everybody freaked out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		They say they went out of the house like a cubby of quail.
		This was...
		Now, probably one of the most interesting things it did, though, was it had total knowledge.
		It could tell you everything in the past, future, and then present.
		It also could lead your mind.
		And during the original four-year hunting, it would go to church and it would tell on everybody.
		There was nothing that went unnoticed.
		It could be everywhere at once.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, that fits into everything that I think I understand about the nature of what we're talking about.
		The crossing of time and space, the non-locality of everything really being in touch with everything, even though we may not be aware of it at the frequency at which we operate.
		Scientists now are talking about this great non-locality where everything is connected to everything and everything is known.
		There's all kinds of science beginning to develop around all of this.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, this thing certainly demonstrated that it had the power to do pretty much whatever it wanted to do.
		And, of course, when it was telling on everybody, it said that the preachers doing the most preaching about drinking are doing the most drinking.
		And it was telling on everybody.
		And if you beat your wife or your children, it would tell on you.
		They said when this thing left, it was a model community.
		So in one sense, it did seem to serve the community as far as it straightened everybody up.
		As you can imagine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, what would you do if your deepest and darkest secrets were...
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		You can imagine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're supposed to go into a little booth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that'd be the Catholics, right?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Confess it, not have it told.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Now, probably the strangest and the most bizarre event, I think.
		And, of course, it did just about everything.
		But there was a visitor from England.
		They never gave his name because he didn't want to be revealed.
		But anyhow, he stayed for about three months, and this thing really seemed to like him.
		And it told him, it said, you have a mother and brother in England.
		Give me a message, and I will deliver it in your voice.
		And it said, I'll be back in a few minutes.
		So after a few minutes, it comes back, and it gives a message to him in his mother's voice.
		Basically, it said, son, we don't know what you're doing over there, but we just had the most disturbing incidents.
		Please come home or quit and come home.
		And the man wrote them back from England.
		It actually did communicate with us.
unidentified		What?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		So he could go around the world in a short time and then keep back.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		I mean, this thing put on a show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on, Neil.
		We'll be right back.
		What in God's name?
		Or would that be incorrect?
		Could do this or would do this.
		We're talking about the Belle ghost.
		Belle Witch, actually.
		Maybe ghost.
		I don't know.
		I'm Art Bell, and I will be back, probably.
unidentified		I get coming here tonight.
		Buddha.
		Once upon a time Once when you were mine I remember your sight Reflected in your eyes I wonder where you are I wonder if you think about me Once upon a time In your wildest dreams
		Rejoice Bell in the Kingdom of Nye.
		From west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is one scary cautionary tale indeed.
		Neil Sibley is my guest, and we're talking about the Bell Witch.
		Now, the Bell Witch is a very well-documented haunting.
		I think you'd call it a haunting, but maybe that's yet to be determined because perhaps the scariest part of the story, the one affecting our guest, Mr. Sibley, lies yet ahead.
		And the reason the Bell Witch did what it did, that information also lies directly ahead.
		Once again, ladies and gentlemen, here is Neil Sibley.
		Welcome back, Neil.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yes, where were we?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's so many places to go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I guess we were at the end of the seven years.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		When the Spirit returned seven years later, and it spent three months with John Bell Jr., and it simply was very civil with him.
		All it wanted to talk about was the Bible, things to come.
		It told him of future events like the Depression, World War I and II.
		It told him when he would die.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It accurately forecast all of that?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's all.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Of course, this wasn't revealed until 1935.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's all right.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		It told him of the Civil War.
		And what's interesting is that it told him that the outcome of the war and that the slaves would be freed because the Creator had already made the decision.
		It was a done deal.
unidentified		Wow.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		So, in other words, you can't fight God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, that brings back the one argument I can never get past and I can never reconcile is, you know, God's will and free will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It just, it has never made sense to me.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's going to make a little bit more sense tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it really?
		Okay.
		Well, let's rock then.
		I would love to understand how God's will is in any way relates to that which he gave us, which is free will.
		Either we have free will or we don't.
		So anyway, continue.
		Maybe all this will come together.
		You've got a lot to pull together here, Parter.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		So I've seen a lot.
		So anyhow, it also covered a lot of ground, but it also, what I thought was interesting, is that it demonstrated that how a spirit such as itself, which was created as a spirit, it was never a human.
		It was created by God as a spirit.
		In other words, the angels and then the fallen angels, which were demons, were all created by God as spirits.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would imply almost that God gave the angels free will.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it would.
		And a third of them went with Satan.
		Rebel angels, I guess you could call them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Now, it never just came right out and said that it was a demon, but yet it pretty much, in a roundabout way, acknowledged it.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, when it really acknowledged it, when it said it was doomed or eternal, you know, damnation, basically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It said that.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yes, pretty much.
		So this was not a happy spirit.
		So anyhow, but it demonstrated, it said, as a spirit, I can tell you, I can make you believe I'm your father's ghost.
		It even put on an act where it would make his father's footprints in the snow with his boots.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it said that's what demons do, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They lie and deceive, right?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Now, it stated very clearly, according to this thing, said, the dead do not talk.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		A demon spirit could deceive you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The dead do not talk.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		The dead do not talk to the living.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		And it said God could change that if he wanted to, but said, I doubt he ever will because it surely would cause a lot of confusion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would indeed.
		On the other hand, there are many, many, many, believe me, people, my friend, who believe that they have encountered their dead relatives.
		I have people coming on this program who make recordings in graveyards, Neil of the departed.
		Now, obviously, from your point of view, and with what you're saying.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		I'm just telling you what it's, of course, this is to the Bible also.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		And what it's basically doing is validating the Bible and it's giving its own testimony, basically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the dead don't talk.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Now, the dead don't talk.
		It said, as a spirit, is a demon spirit can deceive you, and it can tell you anything.
		It knows in its total knowledge, as this thing has demonstrated.
		Now, little by little, the pieces are going to start to come together.
		So, anyhow, it basically tries to win him over.
		And, of course, John Bell Jr. absolutely wants nothing to do with this thing.
		And only after three months, it finally invited his best friend to come over.
		And it told him essentially that it was going to depart.
		And that it would return in seven years, to which I had 100.
		And that would have been 1935.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Now, it also mentioned that after it got back, if allowed, by God, it would do something that would help the whole country, the entire country.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		In other words, it would do something big.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So did it?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's interesting.
		In 1935, the Bell family still owned it.
		Your folks still owned the farm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stop.
		The Bell family.
		That Bell family still owned the family.
		That Bell family.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		They still own the farm, and they did not acknowledge anything.
		However, well-documented, unexplainable events have been occurring in that area ever since.
		And they were easier to document after the family sold the farm.
		And I believe they sold the farm in about the 1950s.
		The Bell family did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they kept it very quiet.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Right, they kept it quiet.
		But people would see, you would, strange phenomenon ever since that time has gone on.
		Now, the way I'm interpreting this is this thing, when it came back, was sort of, it came back sort of covert.
		But at some point in time, it's going to become overt again and, you know, raise hail, essentially.
		Now, that's the way I interpret this, because, of course, you have my photo that I took when I, and that's not odd at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Now, you began to, you wrote a screenplay, right, called Our Family Trouble.
		That's correct.
		All right, I'm now going to direct everybody's attention to my website, and under Program and tonight's guest info, that's what you click on, you will see first Stephen Greer's name, then Neil Sibley.
		And he is graciously, he wasn't sure he wanted to do it, but he brought a photograph.
		He sent me a photograph in a frame, in a glass frame.
		By the way, the glass was shattered when it arrived here, but the photograph made it through.
		And we're going to tell you about this photograph.
		Now, I've got it on the website right now.
		So under his name, you'll see a little link.
		If you click on that, you're going to see the photograph we're about to talk about.
		Just click on Our Family Trouble.
		And this, please now, tell us, I mean, here you are working on a screenplay.
		Tell me about this photograph, please.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now, let me clarify something first.
		My screenplay is a fictitious version of it coming back today.
		However, it did vow to come back.
		In other words, it's really not.
		The premise is actually true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your premise is that it comes back in your screenplay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine, okay.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		And I've got somebody like you that's buying the farm going to move out and be alongs, okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		So anyhow, I had to tell you that because I finished the script, and then I went to the farm to take a photograph after I had finished the script.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		And this scene that you're seeing was already in the script, which I took from the original haunting.
		When this thing manifested itself, you had all this other strange phenomena going on also, but yet it was, you know, it was to some extent irrelevant based, you know, once this thing started talking.
		But what they called were the flitting lights, and they said these were commonly seen during the haunting.
		So in my script, I used that where there's a scene in the movie where this thing, they look outside the window, and they see this thing like a juggler, like these balls of light coming across the field.
		And they do a dance on John, or like a juggler.
		You know, I would use three balls to do a little dance or act on John Bell's grave.
		So anyhow, I go to the farm, and I know basically where the farm is because it's, well, it's marked, but then the border of the farm, the back border was the Red River, which is basically a big creek.
		So I had a pretty good indication where everything was.
		Well, when I got to the farm, I was going to take a photograph, and it was going to be of an empty field because I knew that they had torn down the original house.
		Now, my script does call for the original house to be there.
		That was the only thing I fudged out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you had to, okay.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
		So anyhow, I get to the field and I get ready to take the photograph, and it's just the empty field.
		And a little voice, she said, don't do this.
		This just doesn't feel right.
		And I had to take a photograph just over the hill of the Red River because there's a scene to be shot there.
		And when I just walked over the hill, basically, here is the adjoining farm.
		And there's a house that sits exactly the way I described it in the script.
		It's abandoned, sits the exact distance from the road.
		And this is actually, I mean, this is picture perfect.
		And it's close enough.
		We're only a stone's throw from the original was.
		So for a photograph to send to Hollywood, you know, this is it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		So I take the photograph, and the miracle is that it's centered.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		I've never taken a photograph in my life that it's centered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not a great photographer.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
		Well, so, you know, I get it developed, and I say, man, this is great.
		It's centered.
		And there's nothing on the photograph.
		It's just normal-looking, you know, setting there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean these lights were in the middle?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
		The lights are not on the photograph.
		So I give the negative back, and then I have multiple copies made because I'm going to send them out to Hollywood with my synopsis or whatever.
		And this thing shows up on the second generation photographs.
		It's on all of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		And it's exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For those of you who cannot see it, it's a picture of a very green field, as you might imagine to find in Tennessee, and a big field, and then a farmhouse, and then there are these...
		You know, people talk about orbs a lot these days and get a lot of photographs of these things.
		These are not orbs.
		These are This is closer to the kinds of lights that have been associated with the forming of crop circles, believe it or not.
		These, as I've heard them described, that's what they look like to me.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, these are reported now quite common today in this area.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		In other words, truckers at night, according to a newspaper article that was recently written where they interviewed the people that are on the farm, are seeing these strange lights coming across the field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		And now I'm going to read you what one of the sons of John Bell wrote in his 1846 manuscript.
		This is a quote, during the time it was not uncommon to see lights like a candle or lamp fleeting across the yard and through the field.
		Now they would describe them also about the size of a honeydew melon or something.
		People today describe them the size of a basketball.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're saying that modern...
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		That's what's interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And even today, you're saying truckers are...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where that is a highway?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, there's a small highway.
		I mean, it's this little two-lane road, but truckers at night-flitting lights.
		And also, it's very common for this weird stuff to show up on photographs, particularly if you're in the Bellwich Cave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bellwich Cave?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's that?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		On the back side of the farm, there's a river, right above the river, there's a cave, sort of a bluff area, then there's a cave inside, and they always refer to it as a Bellwich Cave.
		The family would fish there, and they would also store, you know, the cave was cool, they would store goods inside the cave to keep, you know, sort of a refrigeration, serve as a refrigerator, basically.
		But they would hear its voice come from the cave a lot or in the area.
		And it just over the years became known as the Bellwich Cave.
		But the people that own the farm say that this, I mean, incredible things happen in that cave.
		And it's very common now to take photographs, and the demons show up in front of the cave or in the cave in some fashion or form.
		So these things appearing on my photograph, I really kind of expected it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		And of course, we haven't got to the things that I encountered.
		I encountered enough myself to know this thing is real.
		Forget the history books.
		What I encountered.
		It really, really is going to start getting weird here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's fine.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		I know that's fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we are the home of weird.
		You know, I'll tell you something, though, Neil, and I believe this is true of Ouija boards, which I do not discuss, of other artifacts of the paranormal, even discussion of the paranormal and the kind of things we're talking about right now,
		and therefore, in the listening audience, the consideration of these things, and I want to scare the hell out of my listeners, but I believe the consideration of these things, the mental processes that you go through as you're listening to the kind of story you're telling us right now, or even being in the area and being involved directly in some way in this story, as in writing a screenplay, what it does, Neil, is it opens doors like Ouija boards, like other things on the streets?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to close that door for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		If you're right with the Lord, you don't have anything to worry about.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		I'll be able to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Neil, I'm concerned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You understand?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've been concerned about myself.
		I don't want to sound too self-righteous or just saying the Lord may turn this thing loose on me.
		I've had enough of it.
		I don't want to deal with it anymore.
		but it's it's all going to make biblical sense oh i'm i'm just i'm trying to uh i'm saying I know what you're saying.
		You do not want to toy with this thing.
		If you do, and I've had this happen time and time again to people that I've come in contact with, and it seems to be very common.
		You don't have to be on that farming to, you know, like you said, get this thing stirred up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think all you have to do is invite it.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you invite it.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And in fact, I had a friend who did this sort of inadvertently.
		He was a fellow that I told him the story.
		He was really intrigued by it because he was just, you know, getting in the Bible and becoming a Christian or whatever.
		And he thought this was a good thing that he needed to talk to.
		This sounds ridiculous, but he actually did this.
		He wanted to talk to it.
		Well, he came back, and he didn't tell me this until after it happened.
		He said, it showed up, and he said it was like, and this one was telling the truth.
		He said, it was as if something suddenly just knocked me on the floor.
		And he said, I was paralyzed.
		And he said, it was like a big black dog sitting on top of me.
		And he said, I could see my wife in the kitchen.
		I was trying to scream.
		Nothing would come out.
		But then he said, when I finally got my wits about, he said, I called on Jesus Christ to remove it.
		And he said, it was going just like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that's not like the Bell Witch.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're going to slowly get there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		I can't believe this is in your family history and you don't know this story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stop that, Neil.
		I'm serious.
		It's bad enough as it is, talking about the Bell Witch on my birthday.
		Bad enough, so.
unidentified		Was that not a coincidence?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please don't.
		Just don't take me there.
		The fact of the matter is, this thing has come after you now, hasn't it?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, I had, shall we say, some disturbing experiences.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold it.
		Hold it, hold it.
		Hold it right.
		Disturbing experiences.
		Hold it right there.
		I'm Mark Bell from the high desert.
		This is Coast.
unidentified		I've been away.
		The Eagle flies.
		Rolled his wings across all the skies.
		Kissed the sun and touched the moon.
		But he left me much unto his lady bird.
		He left his lady bird.
		Ladybird, calm down.
		I'm here waiting all well.
		Lady Bird, I preach you good.
		Ladybird, I wait for you, Lady Bird.
		Pretty ladybird It's my happy pleasure with my fancy.
		I want to share my wildest dreams with me.
		Imaginary lover.
		Don't mind any time.
		Imaginary lover.
		Oh yeah.
		We're ordinary lovers.
		Don't feel what you feel.
		In real life situations, lose their friends.
		Imaginations are real.
		Imaginary lover.
		Imaginary lover.
		And you're my head.
		In real life situations, lose their friends.
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nigh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's nothing at all imaginary about the Bell Witch, which killed eventually John Bell in December of 1821.
		And there's nothing imaginary about what's going on right now, because I've got some cautionary news for you.
		The Bell Witch.
		The Bell Witch isn't gone.
		My guest is Neil Sibley, and we're discussing The Bell Witch.
		Now, something happened when Neil began writing about The Bell Witch.
		When he began to write screenplay about The Bell Witch, I believe he opened a door and things began to happen to him.
		Neil, you want to pick it up there?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		What happened, I'm going to backtrack here a little bit, but when this was first revealed to me, and again, I had never heard of it, and it was, you know, a history book was just essentially left on my desk, and I came in and after sort of getting a feel for this story, and when I read the history of the Bellwich, I knew right away that was what I was looking for.
		But yet I was a little uncomfortable with it, as you can imagine.
		But I then, as I said, looked on the map and realized that I was born just a few miles from that farm, and of course I moved when I was three.
		Now, I couldn't understand if this thing was true.
		Why had I never heard of it?
		So I called a friend in North Mississippi.
		Now, this is significant because it's the first person I called, and I knew he was a very well-read person.
		I thought if anybody knew about this, he might know, but I didn't really think he would.
		And when I called him, he said, I know a lot about it.
		He said, my best friend was the world's leading authority back in the 70s on this.
		And he used to go around the country giving lectures at universities.
		And he said, the fellow was brilliant.
		He sort of disappeared off a radar screen, moved to Europe or something.
		I wonder why.
		But so right off that, you know, I'm giving validation for this.
		I make one phone call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and boom.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were somehow meant to be on this trail.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Right, so then exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so then what?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		So then I go back to Tennessee to do my research.
		So I go to a little bookstore.
		You know, I have to start somewhere.
		Ask the lady if she'd ever heard anything about this.
		And she said if it was a snake, it'd bite you.
		She said, turn around.
		She said, a new book, the first book since 1935 has come out by a local author had researched and put all the, a lot of the relevant facts from the 1934 book, 34 book.
		And then he added recent accounts from people that live in the area.
		It was a really interesting little book.
		But anyhow, it was right there behind me on a display like they have in the little, in the bookstores or whatever, where they have multiple books.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There it was on display right behind me.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		And I literally just turned around and took it.
		I didn't even have to take a step and then put it on the counter.
		So it then told me where did I need to get.
		I, you know, went across the street to the little branch library.
		And the lady thought, well, you won't, she told me that you'll have to go to the main library, go to Nashville, whatever, to get this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What town were you in?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		I was in Knoxville, back home in Knoxville, Tennessee.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So go to the library.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		So I go to the library.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		This is where it starts getting weird.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you go to Nashville to go to the library.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, I didn't.
		The lady told me I would probably have to go to Nashville because this book is out of print.
		The original 1934 book by Dr. Charles Bodibale is considered the Bible.
		And that's where it's going to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so anyway, you found it there.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		I went across to the library.
		And what's strange is when I, I asked the little lady, she had this sweet little smile on her face.
		And I asked her if she'd ever heard of this book.
		And all of a sudden, it's like, I mean, this most pained look on her face, like, well, he's doomed.
		She said, I know all about it.
		She said, follow me.
		So she takes me around to the back of this little library in a corner, a dark corner, reaches down under like this little hidden shelf somewhere, pulls this thing out and hands it to me and says, son, I don't know what you're doing with this, but you need to be really, really careful.
		She said, I hear bad things happen to people who fool with this.
		And she said, I know that for a fact.
		And I said, but I'm doing it from it.
		And she said, I don't want to know.
		I don't want to know.
		And she just went away.
		She didn't want to talk anymore.
		She gave the warning and she was gone.
		So I'm thinking, what have I got myself into?
		And now keep in mind how this all came about.
		I asked the Lord to give me a script that had a biblical theme commercial, something that had some punch to it because I kind of felt like we need it today.
		These kids today need something to kind of set them straight.
		You know what I'm saying?
		When I was a kid, everybody had some, you know, we didn't always act right, but we knew right from wrong, if you know what I mean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Different version of scared straight, huh?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		So anyhow, you know, I'm thinking, Lord, you must have me confused with somebody else.
		You know, this is not exactly what I was, you know, thinking about.
		So anyhow, I did my research and I'm totally baffled because this 19, which we've been discussing, book that was basically John Bell Jr.'s manuscript just didn't, I mean, it just didn't add up.
		All I'm left with is this thing is a Bible-preaching demon from hell that claims that God allowed it to do this for the benefit of future generations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I'm baffled.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm still baffled.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		So anyhow, I began to write my, a little voice just told me, go ahead and register your synopsis now or you'll be sorry.
		So I, normally you don't do this.
		You don't register your synopsis.
		You register a copyright your script.
		First, well, I worked just day and night to write up my basic story and I registered it.
		And this was in January of 1997.
		So as I begin to write my script, now remember my script is a version of it coming back today, but my lead character, say somebody like you who buys this farm and then begins, this thing comes back.
		Well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've been sold some farms, believe me.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So anyway.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		This one's got your name on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, quit reminding me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		So what I'm getting at is that I have to, I realize when I start to write my script, I cannot write my script because I don't know the motive.
		You see, I have to pair.
		I knew in my heart I had to parallel this with the original honesty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You couldn't end the story without a motive.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		No, I couldn't even write my script.
unidentified		I had to know the motive.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		It wasn't going to work unless I knew the motive because when it came back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, pretty soon you've got to give us a motive or I'm coming through this phone line and strangle you myself.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so I said, Lord, I can't do this thing because I don't know.
		I said, somehow, you're going to have to reveal this to me.
		It's been a mystery, a total, complete, probably the world's greatest mystery since 1818, and I have to know the answer or you can just forget this script.
		Okay, now I'm starting to issue ultimately.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We are not supposed to be threatening the Lord by the way.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		No, no, I read ahead.
		It gets worse.
		And I learned my lesson the hard way.
		So anyhow, lo and behold, I'm with a lady at a bookstore here in Mississippi.
		You know, there's some kind of, there's a local offer who sold a screenplay, and you want to go see these guys to see if they really exist, you know.
		And I'm walking out, and I looked at this lady, and there's just a little voice in my head.
		Now, this is in my head, not outside of my head.
		That's called schizophrenia.
		Okay?
		And it says, go back inside.
		There's a book on the Bellwich that you need.
		So I just stopped in my tracks, and I told her, I said, I've got to go back inside.
		There's a book I need.
		What are you talking about?
		I said, just hold up.
		I go back inside.
		I asked the person at the desk, there's a book on the Bellwich of Tennessee, a new book that just came out, and I need it.
		He said, I don't know what you're talking about.
		I said, well, look in your computer.
		Lo and behold, he looks from the computer, and it's there in the system.
		The book is not ours.
		They don't have it in stock yet, but it's in the system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm beginning to get very suspicious of what you're calling your little voice.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I was too.
		I mean, this is new for me.
		Let me kind of give you a little background of where I was coming from.
		I never really believed, to me, you know, I had a Christian background, but to me, what they call spiritual warfare and this, I kind of felt like things just kind of rock on, and when you die, the supernatural kicks in.
		You know what I'm saying?
		I did not believe in the supernatural.
		But yet the Bible is supernatural.
		It is, yes.
		And you can't.
		If you really believe the Bible, you've got to believe in spiritual warfare, the struggle between Satan and his demons and the Lord and good and evil angels.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so what exactly happened to you?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me finish this here.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		I had to, anyhow, this book came out, okay, that I eventually got was a manuscript that had been sealed since 1841 that was written by the man who married Etsy Belle, the daughter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God, really?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Now, it had been, now, it's going to start getting weird here.
		It had been sealed since 1841.
		And what happened was this thing came back to him before he died.
		He had a stroke and he was dying.
		And he wrote everything down.
		You know, he wanted to write up a full report of the haunting for their daughter.
		No, no, wait a minute.
		Right, right.
		I should have told you this.
		The spirit wanted Betsy to marry this person and not the other person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, now it comes back to the marriage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The spirit had in mind who Betsy was going to marry.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Right, because it wanted this information to be revealed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got you.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		It's starting to make sense now.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yep, yep, yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		So, anyhow, what's really weird about this manuscript is it's discovered by a lady in Fort Gibson, Mississippi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why was it sealed?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, was it hidden or just sealed?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Because she found it in the attic of an old home, okay?
		And she opened it for the first time.
		And it was written to their daughter, Betsy Bell's daughter, okay, Richard Powell, Betsy Bell's daughter.
		Oh.
		In case this thing ever came back to open it up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Okay, because see, they've been telling their daughter that all of this stuff about the Bell Witch was false.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		You know, they're trying to distance at the time their child from this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But just in case.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, just in case.
		So he knows he's dying, so he writes up everything, and here's the clincher.
		The darn thing comes back to him and reveals to him why.
		Why it was allowed to do what it did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The bell witch came back to Roxy's husband at his deathbed, literally.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, he wasn't bedman at that point, but he knew he was dying.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		He'd already had one stroke, and he knew that he wasn't going to live much longer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, it gave him long enough to write it up.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Right, and then he died.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it told him why he did what he did.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why, Neil.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Remember, John Bell and the entire family were considered a fine Christian family.
		I mean, he was a pillar of the community.
		He was in church every Sunday.
		Here's the thing.
		He had sexually molested Betsy.
		He had everybody fooled us.
		but he didn't have God fooled.
		So there's a poignant lesson here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, this good Christian man.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yes, was not what he pretended to be.
		He had, well, he had a dark sin, shall we say, that was hidden from all except God and Betsy.
		So now it's slowly starting to come, you know, you can see the pieces starting to fit together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my gosh.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Now, this man wanted to know why did you torment Betsy?
		Well, now, first of all, I wanted to know why didn't you talk?
		You talked every day.
		Why didn't you just tell everybody?
		And it said, their job was confession.
		My job was retribution.
		And it said, Betsy should have gone to her preacher or her mother and told.
		And it said, the truth carries a heavy price.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		So, and anyhow, well, that told me everything I need to know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that was all in this manuscript.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, now the manuscript, it's a wonderful book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It revealed, and it revealed even this in the manuscript.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It revealed the molestation that occurred.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, the manuscript starts from, see, this man was at the house a lot during the hunting, so he gives a full account.
		He gives his personal account of this haunting.
		But then he's able to conclude it, you see.
		Nobody's ever been able to do that.
		But his manuscript, even though it was sealed in 1841, it wasn't copyrighted until one month after I copyrighted my synopsis.
		I got January, and he's got February.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy, oh, boy.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Now, it was discovered in Fort Gibson, Mississippi, which is the setting of my previous script, which was a prototype for this script.
		It's sort of a training script, so I kind of pioneered a new story structure.
		And that previous script was all made possible by a fellow by the name of Baal who came to me with his story, and I was able to incorporate his own.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's a fellow named what?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		He's a fellow by the last name of Baal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got a bit of a southern accent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you saying Bale?
unidentified		Yes.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		This may get a little intimidating for you because this may start getting a little too close for home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It already is.
		Okay, fine.
		Keep going.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		So, now this is an interesting fellow.
		He's a super good fellow, but he was in a mental institution, and he had developed schizophrenia from a brain lesion and the medications they put him on.
		And he basically, after he got out, wanted to commit suicide, but then he prayed one last time, make a long story short, and he said instead of, he woke up.
		In other words, he just immediately fell asleep, evidently, and a mockingbird was looking in the window, singing to him.
		This gets weird.
		And he said, well, I'll die.
		I mean, I won't kill myself.
		I'll die fighting crime.
		And he gets it.
		This is a true story, but it's too weird to even believe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, go ahead.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Anyhow, so he's got this bizarre story, and he's hearing voices and whatever.
		And he eventually overcomes all this, and he's better now.
		And he's a super person.
		But he wanted me to do a story on his personal story.
		And I told him, I said, I can't do yours because that's just not my thing.
		I do my own creative work.
		I said, but I can incorporate your character, fictionalize him, and put him in the script I'm working in now.
		It turns out this fellow, he'd never heard of the Bell Witch.
		And I asked him, and I felt obligated to, to work on the next script, which was the one on the Bell Witch.
		And, of course, I wanted to know if he was related.
		And so he made some phone calls.
		And he calls this aunt who knew the full account, even had the 1934 book by Dr. Charles Bodebell, but she absolutely denied that they were related to those Bells.
		And she got very sensitive about it.
		So he began to believe that he was related or is related to those.
		So anyhow, I couldn't have done, you know, that was a training script for this script, and it was all made possible by this fellow by the name of Belle.
		I mean, it's, you know, I'm starting to see a trend here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So am I. And then.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		So as I progress writing the script, I begin to things start getting stranger and stranger, shall we say?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, specifically say, since we're now getting to the first-person stuff, in other words, stuff you experienced yourself.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this is really what this show is all about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, okay.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		It took a while to get there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so we're there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what happened to you?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, I'm going to try to put this in order.
		There were so many things happening.
		Well, first of all, one of the things that I, probably the first serious encounter was that I decided, I can't believe I did this, I was going to change the title.
		I was starting to get comfortable with it at some point.
		And I was going to change the title to Touched by a Demon.
		You know, I thought that was cute.
		You know, touched by an angel, touched by a demon.
		And it's just like a voice spoke to me.
		The Holy Spirit just spoke to me, just as before, telling me about the book that I needed, and said, you don't need to go there.
		You're crossing a border.
		You're trivializing the demon.
		And I understand now what I was doing.
		You know, I'm taking the edge off of this.
		And I can't believe I did this, but I said, loosen up.
		Let's have fun with this.
		Well, a short time later, my tire went flat.
		And of course, tires go flat, so this doesn't concern me at the time.
		I'm not getting paranoid.
		The next day, I go to pick up the tire, and the man at the tire shop, I mean, this man is all shook up.
		He's like, I've been in this business for 20 years.
		I've seen it all.
		And he goes, and this long story about how things can end up in tires.
		He said, but what happened, what you have, is physically impossible to happen.
		He said, I want to know how you did this.
		He hands me a ratchet extension, six inches long, half-inch ratchet extension.
		It's inside the tire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was inside the tire?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		But here's the thing.
		He said, now it could go in.
		He said, if the front tire could kick it up, it could go in.
		And he went through this long ordeal.
		He said, and then he holds the tire up.
		He said, but it went in from the side of the tire.
		I still got the tire.
		I'm holding the ratchet extension in my hand here.
		It went in from the side, and I was almost at a standstill.
		I was coming to a stop.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A six-inch ratchet wrench went into your tire.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		It's not a wrench.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This engine, excuse me, went in from the side, not the bottom.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		The side, like it was fired out of a gun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold it right there, Neil.
unidentified		We're about to get Neil's story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, we're already beginning to get it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		of the bell witch from the high desert i'm art bell You can't even play explanation.
unidentified		The air of the cast.
		She doesn't give you time as she walks up your own home.
		And you fall up to your back, but which direction completely disappears while the blue power ball melted market though.
		But the hidden door she leads you to.
		These days better, I feel my light.
		What the rest will run and true.
		The air of the cast to rechart Bell in the Kingdom of Nye.
		From west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		Good morning, everybody.
		This Bell Wish story really is beginning to seriously bother me, and I'll tell you why.
		There are certain things about my family that I would never tell you and will never tell you.
		And, you know, I think that's probably true of everybody everywhere, isn't it?
		You know, certain family things, right?
		So that's all I'll say about that.
		But when I was young, we had a cane in our family, and the cane hung over the fireplace.
		It was over our, you know, up on the mantle over the fireplace.
		And that cane traveled with us, I guess, ever since I could first remember it being there until I went into the Air Force.
		And then after I was in the Air Force, this is 22 years after I'm born, my parents divorced.
		My father took possession of this cane.
		Now, what was it about this cane?
		This cane had been in our family since the Mayflower.
		Actually, since the Mayflower.
		And the cane traced every Arthur Bell name going all the way back that far, the Mayflower.
		And my father, at the divorce, came into possession of the cane, and then it disappeared.
		And I've asked my mom about it a bunch of times, and it's just, you know, it's gone.
		And she says she's sorry she ever let my dad keep possession of the cane, that it should have gone to me.
		That cane had our family history on it.
		And so I don't claim any connection to this Bell Witch thing at all, in any way.
		But then again, I don't know my full family history.
		That cane just disappeared.
		It is the Bell Witch.
		Remember now, I was born in North Carolina, right?
		And it is my birthday today, and I am a Belle.
		Now, you know, that's just probably a lot of coincidence, but it is starting to freak me out.
		Anyway, the story is not mine, it's Neil's, and we were to the point where, with Neil, where it was beginning to affect Neil personally, and that's exactly what we'll get back to in a moment.
		Well, all right, Neil, let us continue with your story.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		All right, are you telling me that you lost your family tree?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Now, this sounds a little too convenient here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm telling you that.
		We had a cane in our house, and it was always...
		I told you the truth.
		That's the truth.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so you really don't know, Ben.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it was supposed to be passed on to me, and, you know, so I don't know.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		So you'll need to do a little research, but I know where it's going.
		Anyhow, because, you know, it will make sense later.
		It all makes sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, some of it makes sense to me now, and I'm just not willing to talk about it at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, go ahead.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, now, look, before, I'm bouncing around a lot, and I'm a writer, I'm not a speaker, so I'm hoping I'm not being too confused.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I just want to keep you on track in terms of what happened to you.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		You already told me.
		I want to say something, though.
		Be sure and give me enough time so I don't run out of time so I can tie all the loose ends up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, oh, yeah, boy.
		If you don't, like I said, I'm coming through the phone after you.
		So go ahead.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so we were at the point to wear this ratchet extension had gone through the car, the tire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like it was fired out of a cannon.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, after I was warned by, evidently, the Lord, you know, to not change the title to touch by a demon because I was trivializing the demon.
		So anyhow, lesson learned.
		So it starts getting even stranger.
		But at this point, I realize that this is really, you know, I'm on dangerous ground here, and I have to get the biblical elements of the script.
		In my script, I've got a preacher who's giving you the backstory and then explaining all this.
		Because obviously, we wouldn't know.
		The average church goer today doesn't read the Bible, so they wouldn't know.
		And I don't know anything about the Bible, so I'm in trouble right here.
		So I couldn't quote you a single verse at that time.
		Anyhow, I realized, though, that I was going to have to get help.
		Well, one night, I get ready to go to bed, and I don't usually go to bed like 2 o'clock in the morning.
		And a little voice just said, go in and turn on this Christian radio station.
		There's a program on you need to hear.
		And I'm thinking, I'm tired.
		Again, I'm arguing with God, evidently.
		I'm tired.
		I don't want to go, you know.
		I want to go to bed.
		So, anyhow, I get up and go do it eventually because it will not let me sleep if I don't go, you know, turn on the radio to the station.
		As soon as I did, they had this, I guess he was a theologian with a PhD, and he was a very brilliant man, and he was explaining from a biblical perspective ghosts and demons and all of that, clarifying all that.
		And he had just written a book, and I was able to go get his book the next day at a Christian bookstore, and it told me everything I need to know.
		So right there, I had everything I need to know as far as to get that aspect of it right.
		Well, anyhow, it starts getting a little stranger here when as I get deeper and deeper into the script, and then I'm warned by the preacher, and he really liked what I was doing, but he said, he warned me that Satan is not going to tolerate this because if this movie gets made,
		and you reveal all this, you know, even though the movie's entertainment, these true facts will be revealed, and it could have a profound effect.
		I mean, it could start a revival or something, and Satan just isn't going to stand for that.
		And he warned me that as long as you stay on, you know, you don't sell out and compromise the biblical integrity, you'll be okay.
		Now, you'll see some weird stuff, but you'll be okay.
		Just, you know, stay close to the Lord.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounds like some a preacher would say, yeah.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		So, anyhow, at that point, I knew this was all real, so I took that advice, you know, seriously.
		Well, one night, I get this strange phone call, and it was like there was static on the end of the phone, like you don't hear anymore.
		You know, and there was a voice that just said two words, and it was a strange voice.
		It didn't sound right.
		It said Lucille.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lucille?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, then Lucille.
		Okay, and then it hung up.
		And I thought, well, that was odd.
		And I was so busy I didn't think much of it.
		It was just strange.
		But when I got ready to go to bed, that little voice, which I'm a, you know, the Holy Spirit just spoke to me and said, and it's just like somebody talking to you, just clear as a bell.
		Anyhow, said that voice was Lucifer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		So I'm thinking, yeah, that's what that was.
		You know, you wouldn't expect to get a phone call and a voice and then say, Lucifer.
		In your head, you're trying to make it out to a, you know, that's just not, you know, what you would expect to get.
		So I thought.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe the voice was really saying Lucifer isn't a Lucifer.
		He's Lucille.
		It's a devil's a woman.
		Sorry, go ahead.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		So yeah.
		So I thought, well, it's just somebody in Hollywood.
		At that time, I was sending out, you know, synopsis with the history and everything, basically the photo that she would receive.
		And I just thought, well, somebody's having fun.
		And that's their cell phone.
		You know, they obviously wouldn't call from the office and they're just, you know, messing with me.
		I didn't think much about it.
		And I was getting ready to go back to North Alabama to some kinfolks home and spend Easter weekend.
		It's Easter.
		And to make a long story short, during this time before I got there, I was just over and over, it's like I was being told, now, you're going to encounter a demonic spirit, but don't be afraid.
		You know, like a ghost, but you know what it is.
		It's a demonic entity counterfeiting itself.
		It's a ghost.
		And don't be afraid.
		You know what to do.
		And just over and over, it was like I was being told this, and I was like, okay, I'm cool.
		I can handle it.
		It's not a problem.
		You know, I was starting to get the big ad again.
		So my uncle had bought this old house, and he had told me when I had first told him about what I was doing, about they were having trouble with a spirit thing in the house.
		And I didn't know what in the whole world.
		I had never heard anybody tell me that before.
		And I said, well, we'll describe it.
		And he said, well, it's sort of like a light that just sort of dances down the hall or in the room.
		And I really just wasn't comprehending this.
		And I'm going to try to make this really short to get to the point.
		But so I'll go to their house and I notice this is Easter.
		All the family gets together and the kids all come into town.
		But nobody's, before dark, everybody seemed to sort of clearing out, you know?
		Like nobody was going to stay there.
		Something was wrong.
		Why would they not stay at the house?
		So, anyhow, I watched this.
		It's Easter night, so I watched this Jesus film that my aunt had.
		And anyhow, they give me the bedroom.
		They're going to have some countless bedrooms in this house, a beautiful Old home.
		And I go, and for some reason, I'm not putting this all together.
		Is this stupid or what?
		You know, I'm giving this warning that I'm going to encounter this entity.
		And then, you know, I'm staying at the house that I was told they're having troubles in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You ought to think.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		I should have put the two together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe my time is now.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so I'm just, I was tired.
		I had been involved in a lot.
		And so when I get to my room, well, first of all, I noticed these sounds, these funny sounds.
		And I'm thinking, well, it's an old house.
		They're like tapping sounds on the walls.
		Well, I'm thinking, you know, no big deal.
		I'm tired.
		I'm going to bed.
		And then all of a sudden I see like a star.
		I mean, I don't know how to explain it, but it was like a, you know how the fireworks do and they explode, but yet it was much smaller, about the size of your fist.
		The lights are still on.
		And I thought, well, that's just my eyes.
		You know, I'm tired.
		You know, sometimes your eyes play tricks of you.
		So I turned off the light.
		And lo and behold, all of a sudden, I mean, I'm going to get the covers up.
		Here is this thing dancing around in the room.
		I mean, this light, and I don't know how to describe it.
		It was like a giant lightning bug.
		And it was actually very pretty.
		But of course, I knew what it was.
		And of course, at first, you know, I was arguing with my eyes, you know, like trying to, you know, put some logical explanation for this, come to some logical explanation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what the brain trusts do.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and then all of a sudden, Lark, I realized it was just like a voice just said, that's the demon.
		Now, all that brave talk about take on the devil and all that went out.
		All I could think of was getting out of there.
		I wanted out of that room, and it was just like the people on the, you know, you hear all the news reports after an accident or something.
		It's like you're moving in slow motion.
		I finally get to the door, which was just a few feet away, and it seemed like it took me forever to get to that door.
		And it was like freedom.
		Like I'm, it's kind of like, you know, sharks after you get out of the water, you know, I'm home free.
		Well, as soon as I got to the door, it just, something came over me.
		I guess it was just the Holy Spirit talking to me.
		He said, no, you can't run from this.
		You have to deal with it.
		And so I'm thinking, I'm hoping this is a dream.
		I'm hoping I'm going to wake up, you know, and this is all going to be gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		But it wasn't.
		I slowly turn around, and there it is.
		And what's so incredible about this thing, of course, I know your audience, this is probably not all that weird to them.
		A lot of your audience probably reported these type of entities.
		But anyhow, when...
		Well, it was just this light sort of dancing around the room.
		It was flickering.
unidentified		It would go off and then on.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		And it was sort of a bluish-white color.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		But it ain't supposed to be in my room.
		You know what I'm saying?
		And it's not.
		It's obviously supernatural.
		And what was so incredible about it was you expected to hear lightning or thunder because it was like so much power.
		All right?
		So I'm having to go face this thing and basically form an exorcism.
		Now, you know, this is my first try.
		And I did see the exorcist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And an exorcist.
		Oh, I see.
		You saw the exorcist.
		So that was your training?
unidentified		Yeah.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so in my Bible school, when I was a kid, they did not have, you know, exorcism.
		It was not part of the training.
		So anyhow, I basically go through, you know, in the name of Jesus Christ, I, you know, demand that you leave or whatever.
		Well, this thing got really excited when I did that.
		I mean, it was obviously did not like that.
		And I remember thinking to myself, Lord, don't let this thing get behind me and don't let it, you know, morph into anything else, kind of like on the exorcist.
		You know, I can deal with Tinkerbell here, but don't, you know, after a while, I started sort of gaining confidence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tinkerbell.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, you know, you remember the exorcist?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		You remember how the thing sort of just talked to you like a big dog-like animal?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember very well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so, you know, you can understand where I'm coming from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		It could morph itself into anything.
		It's a demon, okay?
		So, anyhow, I went through my little exorcism bill, and it seemed to be working, but I wasn't quite, it was like sort of a tie, you know.
		It seemed to be sort of wearing down.
		And eventually I went and turned the light on.
		And when I did that, I couldn't see it anymore.
		But the room came alive as if a bird had gotten into the room, was just bouncing off the walls.
		You know what I'm saying?
		Like you heard a bird get in the house, and it was just panic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and boom, boom, boom, boom, all the walls, yeah.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And as soon as you would look, you wouldn't see anything.
		You'd turn, and it was like tapping on the roof.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you could hear something bouncing off the walls?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and the roof.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		You could feel it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As in it was frantic to get out.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, as if it was messing with me.
		It's more like when I took it.
		It was this entity still in the room, this demonic entity, and you could feel it.
		I don't know how to explain it, but you could feel it.
		It was like this tension.
		Of course, I was pretty tense.
		Anyhow, so I go downstairs, I get the biggest Bible I can find.
		You need to always have one of those close on hand.
		And I come back and, you know, try everything I can do.
		Again, this is my first exorcism and my last, by the way.
		Because when the Lord and I had a little talk after this, you know, I reminded him that I'm a screenplay writer.
		You know, this is not what I was bargaining for.
		So anyhow, I then said, I realized I couldn't make any headway with this thing.
		And finally, I did what I should have done all along.
		I said, something to this thing, Lord, you know, I can't, I'll stay here and be your whatever, you know, servant or whatever.
		But I said, I'm turning this over to you.
		I can't make, I can't do it.
		You know, I can't deal with this.
		I can't defeat this.
		And the moment I said that, it was just like you clipped your fingers and it was gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it's never been back?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll get there.
		But no, well, it was resolved eventually.
		But it left immediately.
		And you see, what I did was I was trying to take on this thing myself, and you can't take on the spirit.
		The lesson was learned, and I guess I had to learn that as far as what I'm working on in this script.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kind of like I'm not a plumber.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, if there's a leak, all I'm going to do is make it worse.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
		I had to just turn it over to the Lord.
		See, I can't defeat a Spirit.
		What I was doing, I was starting to think, well, that I personally was going to remove this thing.
		And again, this was my first experience.
		So it was, you know, what you call on-the-job training.
		So, anyhow, that, you know, after that, you know, I'm really starting to get sort of antsy, you know, and I'm really, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		Hold on, Neil.
		We got to wrap this up in the next segment.
		Neil Sibley is my guest from the high desert.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		And I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		I'm Mark Bell.
		my I really wanna see you.
		I really wanna believe in you I tried to reach for you, but you have not been too much.
		I never had for you.
		I wish I understood.
		Did you see faith so nice?
		Did you see faith so good?
		Oh, when you hear me, darling, can't you hear me?
		It's all it.
		The love you gave me, nothing left to save me.
		It's all it.
		When you're gone, how can I even try to go on?
		When you're gone, so I try, how can I carry on?
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		So when you hear me, darling, can you hear me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tonight, you're hearing the story of the Bell Witch.
		Now, I'm not sure that tonight in which my birthday occurs was the right time for me to do this, or maybe it was the only time for me to do it, and I don't want to really think that either.
		My guest is Neil Sibley.
		And we're going to tie up some loose ends for you coming up if you'll just stay exactly where you are.
		Back now to Neil Sibley.
		And all right, Neil, we are drawing short on time.
		So let's finish.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		I will sum this up.
		We'll get back to this spirit of the Bell Witch and how it sort of all the pieces fit together in the biblical lesson that we're going to learn from this.
		This is your nightly Bible lesson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but to you, finish up with what happened to you.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay, on the with the events as far as personal.
		That stopped as of the point, what I did was I basically issued an ultimatum.
		You know, I don't know if you're supposed to do this or not, but I said, Lord, I think I've got the hang of it.
		I've seen enough.
		Let's don't, I don't want to see any more of this stuff because I'll take this stuff and throw it in the trash, and you'll have to get somebody else crazy enough to do this.
		So, but at the same time, I was, each one of these disturbing events was sort of a training lesson for me.
		I was being sort of a, I guess, trained the hard way as far as how to information that I needed to sort of help convey this, you know, this biblical story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it don't come easy, like the song says.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		No, no, it didn't come easy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's where you're supposed to get it.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, I was also, I reached a point where I was very cautious.
		I knew, you know, I didn't compromise.
		I was constantly being told by Hollywood to compromise the story, the biblical elements.
		And I basically told him, you people don't have enough money.
		Okay?
		It's going to be the way it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were told it had to be that way.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were told it had to be that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At every turn, when you tried to change it, things didn't work out at all.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
		You could not compromise the biblical elements.
		You can see that that is inherent to this story.
		And it cannot.
		Obviously, this thing was set up by God to reveal something to today's generation.
		Now, to make a long story short, the problem, and I heard this from an intellectual preacher, and at first it didn't make sense.
		He said, the problem today is it's not that people stopped believing in God.
		And this isn't going to make sense at first, but he said they stopped believing in demons, Satan, and hell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
		I believe that.
		I really do believe that.
		In fact, nine out of ten New Age type people that I interview, Neil, do not believe in Satan.
		Do not believe in hell.
		They believe in various descriptions and levels of heaven and a spiritual world.
		And I could go on and on and on.
		They don't believe in hell and they don't believe in the devil.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		It's worse than that.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		The church doesn't even believe anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the truth.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		He says, here, I'm looking at this actual polling results of born-again Christians who say that Satan is real, 41%.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Only 41% of born-again Christians.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, that's amazing.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		You know, it's mainline church attenders who say that Satan is real, 33%.
		Baptists who say that Satan is real, 34 up one.
		You know, this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the bell witch.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		The bell witch demonstrates, first of all, that demon spirits are real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The bell witch is not gone, is it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The bell witch will never be gone.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		This is the thing.
		I figured this out.
		If it didn't act up, then many people you could never make believe this.
		It would always, I don't care how much you dug out of history books, it would never be real.
		But the fact that this thing is acting up, and I suspect when we shoot the movie, it will show, well, I know it will, it will show up, and it will impress some of these actors, and they'll say something like, I didn't think this was real, but we experienced this and that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, obviously it's real.
		Marcia in Spokane, Washington, asks a pretty good question.
		You know, there's a lot of molestations that go on around the world.
		Catholic Church is having its own problems right now.
		And Marsha says, look, God forgives people.
		So why would this demon come because of this molestation?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		What I'm saying is this demon was allowed to manifest.
		Now, it didn't just come.
		It manifested itself in a way that was overt.
		I mean, it made itself known to the whole nation.
		This is very unusual that a demon like this would actually talk to people.
		But it was evidently allowed by God to demonstrate, to make this demonstration so that it could be conveyed to the public in a believable manner.
		And I don't know if that's getting answering the question or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		What I'm going to have to do is I'm going to have to read.
		Now, here's, you know, we're running out of time, and I need to sort of cut to the chase of this word.
		How do we know a spirit, the Bible tells us that a demon could appear and deceive us.
		It could appear as the angel of the light.
		How do you know whether or not there's a way you can test it?
		Now, I'm going to read here.
		I'll have to read this Bible verse here real quickly.
		Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God.
		Because many false spirits have gone out into the world.
		This is how you can recognize the spirit of God.
		Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God.
		But every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus Christ is not from God.
		This is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
		That's 1 John 4, 1 through 3.
		Now, this was what was so confusing.
		According to the Bible, this thing was from God because it was acknowledging Jesus Christ.
		But this is, and I've checked this out with preachers.
		Okay, it was a demon, but God has the power.
		He could reach over literally and just take a demon and say, you will do what I tell you to do.
		I'm going to allow you to manifest yourself, but I'm going to put restrictions.
		You're not going to harm my people, the Christians that are actually true Christians.
		But the fallen Christians and the phonies and the frauds are fair game.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what percentage of the population would you estimate that to be?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's one less now, after my experience.
		I'll tell you that.
		Okay, now let me give you a quote from this thing made, which, and again, this was given to John Bell Jr. and was not revealed until 1934 in the book that was published by Dr. Charles Bailey Bell, his grandson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Okay, this is a quote now from this thing.
		A spirit, it's going to explain what it is.
		And, you know, we've got to be careful with this thing because we, you know, I'm looking for this thing to see me, you know, at every behavior, you know.
		But anyhow, I'm going to keep it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead and read it.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		A spirit such as you are listening to is a perpetual creation, not bonded by space or time, created by a power to whom this world must bow as an infinite being.
		This being must be accepted by faith that can only be realized by a being being possessed of a soul, and that soul regenerated by the acceptance of Christ as the Savior of men.
		His spirit has endured and will endure for all times, even after this world has ceased to be.
		Now that's a pretty strong statement.
		Okay, now it goes on to say, and I'll give you two more quick statements.
		Do not think this presumptuous for such a spirit as I to be telling you of these things.
		The Creator has used the devil himself in his plans and can use anything he wishes.
		He may be using me, I do not know.
		By the time I am to be here, let us hope I may be used in a way that may help future generations.
		Strange.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's right from the manuscript.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		That's right from, this is the spirits.
		This is a quote.
		One more here.
		We're going to cut to the chase right here.
		Jesus Christ died as your Bible teaches.
		That he was dead, buried, and rose is just as true as that you were born.
		Thousands of spirits, if allowed to talk, could tell you of that day after millions of years, knowing of the cruelties on earth, that to which Jesus Christ was subjected was the most affecting ever witnessed by the spirit world, both good and demon spirits.
		Now this is, you know, so it's making it very clear that it's acknowledging Jesus Christ.
		I'm not reading anything into this.
		So if you were God and you wanted to put the fear of God back into people today, today's generation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fear of God is the correct phrase, I think.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
		Well, if you fear God, you don't have to have to worry about the devil in a sense.
		I mean, the way I look at this, if demons are real and hell is real and Satan is real, you fear offending God.
		You don't want to offend God because you want all the protection you can get.
		And you obviously don't want to go to hell after you die.
		But if God, you see, if you were God and you really wanted to intimidate this generation, he could have used one of his angels.
		But if you were God, wouldn't you use a demon?
		It'd be more intimidating, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Far.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		It certainly worked on me.
		So, you know, this has been kind of confusing because I've jumped around and I'm really not, this is all new to me.
		I'm a writer, not a speaker.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		you've done very well.
		Don't worry about it.
		Don't worry about it.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		So, any loose ends that I'll be glad to anything you need, you just give me a call and I'll be glad to try to help you out.
		But I wanted to find your family tree.
		I really believe art.
		I just feel like it.
		Look, what you need to do is a show on location, okay?
unidentified		You know, look, consider it a family reunion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Neil, we're going to the phones.
		Yeah, I just really need to go to the Bell Witch farm.
		Yeah, sure.
		You bet.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		You may find your cane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Next payday.
		Oh, God.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Neil Sibley.
		Hello.
		Art?
		Yes, we don't have a lot of time, sir.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Art, okay.
unidentified		Neil is talking how Jesus Christ basically sent the bell witch.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How does that work?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, well.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		No, okay, he didn't send it.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		John Bell's sin is what brought this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and it came from God.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		How does that happen?
		I don't believe in God.
		I'm a Satanist myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I don't think that's true because I think...
		You're a Satanist, so you believe in Satan, right?
		No, there's no such thing as Satan.
		Why are you Satanist?
unidentified		A Satanist is a person who believes in themselves.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		I would call that a humanist.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		No, that's not a humanist.
unidentified		Well, you can call it, if you want to call it a humanist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why use Satan's name to involve yourself?
unidentified		It's just something that believes in yourself, and it's kind of offending to the Christian religion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're not going to invent that.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		That's something everybody has to make their own decision.
		That's a personal thing.
		And this is not something you can force on people.
		I'm fortunate that I had a Christian upbringing, and this experience is sort of, shall we say, sort of reinforced everything that I was taught that really didn't believe to that extent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Eaves of the Rockies, you're on the air with Neil Sibley.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
		I was wondering, Neil, you see a lot of things going on today.
		That one guy, he's got a program where he speaks to the dead.
		It's a primetime program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Johnny.
unidentified		I've seen it.
		Yeah, yeah.
		I've seen that.
		And right after that, I know that they're demons that this guy's talking to.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it is strictly forbidden in the Bible.
unidentified		Yeah, they're purporting to be loved ones and people that have died recently or in the past.
		But those are demons that this guy's communing with.
		And I guess, you know, people laugh at you if you say that and stuff.
		But that's the truth.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		It is the truth.
		And that is strictly forbidden in the Bible, and that is why, because you will be deceived.
		And this thing demonstrated that, that it had total knowledge.
		So this, to me, pretty well solves that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yo, Welsh of the Rockies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air with Neil Sibley.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, happy birthday, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, thank you.
unidentified		Oh, cool.
		Hey, to your guest, Neil.
		This is a wild story right here, and I was just wondering, the origin of this, does this have anything to do, just like the Kennedys, you know how they've been cursed for about 80 years?
		Do you see any significance in it with that, to with this Bell story versus the Kennedy story?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not really sure.
		I understand.
		I think maybe what you're saying, referring to a verse in the Bible where the sin of the Father will go down three generations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, he's referring to family curses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like the Kennedys.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		I don't know how that fits into the biblical view.
		I'm really probably not qualified to.
		I didn't know a single Bible verse until I started this thing, so I'm not the best person to ask.
unidentified		I'm not involved in the Bible.
		I'm just involved in the art, well, not the art, but the Bell family versus the Kennedys.
		I mean, you see the similarities there.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, see, the Bell family, after this occurred, really has not been bothered by this entity.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		So it did not carry down from generation to generation.
unidentified		Yes.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Because, of course, they just haven't spoke of it.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		But keep in mind the reason it was there, and it actually served a purpose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Neil?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you, you know, there's a lot of people, Neil, who would not speak of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, there was a gap in the Bell situation where it was not spoken of, right?
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even within their family.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what makes you think, and have you investigated, the current descendants?
unidentified		I mean, as in...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Get away from me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm real serious about that, Neal.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can understand why they...
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		You can imagine the wild stories that were reported in the newspaper that weren't accurate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Okay, and it just got wilder and wilder and wilder.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		And they were doing everything in their power to stop it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Right, so they did not speak of it.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		In fact, in 1934, when Dr. Bell released his book, many of the family members were very disturbed about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can imagine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Maybe your grandparents have been protecting you from this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, please.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		I just can't, for some reason, I know that all these pieces are going to fit together.
		You need to do a show live from the farm.
		I'm telling you, it would be a great show.
		Look, you could have a little camp out around the fire there in front of the Belwich Cave on the river.
		It's a beautiful spot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It might be the great last show.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, it could.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		But look, you could have the local people telling their stories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, good for me how you could write about it.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		And then, look, you could go, you could have a preacher there to give you a quick course on exorcism and then to give you one of those big black Take on the Devil Bibles, and you could go into the cave by yourself and deal with this live.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, oh, fine, Neil.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		It'll be a great show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Next payday.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Look, if you're right with the Lord, there's nothing to worry about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with a slightly annoying Neil Sibley.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi, Art.
		Hi to you and your guests.
		This is Kyle.
		I just wanted to let you know there's a book on the market called The National Directory of Haunted Places from the 1990s by Dennis William Hawk Penguin Books.
		And they have a big section here listed under Tennessee on the John Bell Farm.
		He gives extra information.
		He also has 22 references in here going back to, well, 1967 about what you were saying.
		And also one other thing I wanted to add that some people thought, well, they called the witch Kate.
		They thought it might have been the spirit of Kate Bates, who was a woman that John Bell had proposed marriage to.
		And then they found her body near a well in the property in the late 1770s.
		And soon afterwards, John married Lucy and moved to Tennessee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh my God, is that true?
unidentified		Yes, it's in the book.
unidentified		Penguin Books, the National Directory of Haunted Places, Dennis William Hog gives 22 references, including a University of North Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's one you better.
unidentified		Beautiful, beautiful book.
unidentified		You need it, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you say North Carolina?
unidentified		I believe so either North or South Carolina.
		But Art, there's a lot of times you have guests on and you say, oh, I didn't know about that.
		I didn't know about this.
		But this book is great.
		It covers about 90% of things that you've missed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but it's a great book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the body in the well, Neil.
unidentified		Near the well.
unidentified		Near the well.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		The family left North Carolina.
		All I know is they moved to Tennessee.
		But as far as I know, they had a very good reputation.
		And that's why everybody was so, this was such a mystery.
unidentified		Okay, well, they give actual directions to the place, too, even to the Bell Witch Cave and everything.
		It's a wonderful book.
		Check it out.
		Thanks for the, yeah, I just wanted to back up your story.
		Thank you.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're very welcome.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		One of the things that happened when I began to experience all this and talk about it, I was amazed at the number of people that would tell me their stories.
		And these are normal church-going people.
		They don't talk about this stuff.
		And I could put together a book myself of incredible.
		And evidently, there's a lot of this going on now.
		And I heard a theologian say they're seeing more of the spiritual, both evil and good, in the last few years than they have in the last 75.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm hearing that from everyone, Neil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is something.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		But there's a lot of people being deceived.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		They need to get the Bible out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's something.
		Trust me when I tell you, there really is something going on.
		There's a change going on in the world right now.
		There's no question about that.
		I may look at it and come at it from a slightly different place than you.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		No, no, you won't.
		You know, you won't have to go to the farm.
		I promise you, you will get religion.
		I promise you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I probably won't even get out of there alive.
		Neil, thank you for being here.
		Thank you for telling us the story.
		It truly is one I had never heard.
		And now I'm not sure whether I'm happy I heard it, but you did a wonderful job, Neil.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		Well, happy birthday.
unidentified		Yeah, thank you.
neal sibley ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to find that cane, Archie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, Neil.
unidentified		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's Neil Sibley.
		And that's the story of the Bell Witch.
		I guess I ought to try and learn more.
unidentified		Huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if I even want to know more.
		Yeah, sure.
		A live remote from the cave.
		Coming right up.

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