Art Bell hosts Peter von Puttkamer, Linda Moulton Howe, and John Anthony West, who link April 2002’s Piney River Valley lights—witnessed by nine people, including pilots—to ancient Egyptian star lore, suggesting non-human intelligence. Von Puttkamer’s Monster Hunters documentary (TLC, May 7 & June 25) explores Jersey Devil sightings, like the Higginbotham family’s "flying horse" and Revolutionary War-era legends, alongside UK phantom big cats and chupacabras attacks, including a 1,500-pound bull. Cadbrosaurus, a 30-60-foot sea serpent from British Columbia’s 1937 whaling station, and Australia’s Yowie—linked to underground tunnels via Mel Waters’ and Ray Crow’s research—highlight persistent cryptozoological mysteries. Cloning efforts for the extinct Tasmanian tiger raise ethical debates, while guests debate whether modern tech could reveal hidden primeval species like Chile’s giant ground sloth, hinting at civilization’s deeper, unexplained history. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I want to bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, whatever part of the world you may be in in all 24 time zones covered by this program, which is post-postam.
I'm Art Bell.
We've got a really, really hacked show tonight, Little Month How, with John Anthony West, but first she'll have a really chilling record for you, an audio on a sighting.
It's incredible.
And then in the next hour, we've got a monster hunter here.
I believe it's Peter Hoopcomer, who is a monster hunter.
He's got a lot of cuts, eyewitness type stuff that we're going to play for you.
A monster hunter.
So it should be a very, very interesting night.
I just want to first want to thank the people of New York City and Los Angeles, California, as always.
I try and keep you updated and abreast of what's going on when we get ratings in.
And current ratings period is breaking now like crazy.
And we are totally bucking the trend.
Now, you know, a lot of news talk stations because of the post-911 business took a bit of a hit in the ratings.
But let me tell you, folks, our program, I woke up this morning.
My wife woke me up and said, Phil Boyce from WABC called and call back.
And I got on there and he said, oh, Art, number one, men, check it out, Art.
Men, 12 plus 9.6 share, which in New York, that's, I mean, like totally huge.
25, 54, a 7.8 share, 77% increase.
I wrote these down as he said them.
35 to 54, number one with an 88% increase.
35 to 64, number one with a 10.3 share and a 49% increase.
That's awesome.
Totally awesome at a time when the others were sort of turning around in Los Angeles, a 7.7 share for adults, 25 to 54.
Awesome.
So, listen, I want to thank everybody in New York City and Los Angeles, and we'll kind of keep you informed as the ratings come in.
But really, truly from the heart, everybody, for being here, for listening, for supporting everything the way you have, thank you so very much.
Get ready, because we've got a big report coming in from Linda.
Well, all right, she's been a science reporter for us, for Isaiah Us, Whitley on Dreamland, of course, and here on Coast for years and years and years now, a lot of years.
She has written any number of books on essentially things that go bump in the night, the unexplained, crop circles, animal mutilations, that sort of thing.
She has had award-winning documentaries, and it goes on and on.
She is Linda Moulton Howe, and when she's here, like Mr. Buffett, people listen because she does the hard science.
So what you're about to hear is pretty amazing from somebody of hard science.
I was in the Ozark National Forest of northwest Arkansas with eight other people who had driven out there from the Eureka Springs Earth Mysteries Conference.
And there was no moon.
The sky was absolutely clear and vivid with stars.
We were there to look for the mysterious lights that have long been reported in the Piney River Valley, 10 miles north of Dover, which is about an hour northwest of Little Rock.
Four of us were at one end of a long wall above the valley, and four more witnesses were at the other end of the wall.
I was staring down into the dark valley looking for light activity when I heard pilot and flight mechanic Bob Martin's voice from the furthest group say, oh my God.
We all started asking, what, where, because the night was so dark, we could not even see each other.
And Bob ran over to us and said, look up in the sky.
I was astonished to see what looked exactly like three stars moving very slowly in a large triangular formation through the surrounding stars.
It was not like anything that I'd ever seen before.
Don Kreinbrink, an industrial equipment service engineer from Mississippi, had his video camera and he turned it on and recorded a few frames of this moving triangle and one clear one that you can now see at my website, www.earthfiles.com.
Go to the headlines page and scroll down to tonight's story about these unidentified moving stars above Dover, Arkansas.
Click and you will see one real video frame of what we're talking about that lasted for about three minutes in the sky.
Now, here is a brief excerpt from the videotape audio and it will be followed by comments of these eyewitnesses.
Don Kreinbrink served service engineer for industrial equipment in South Haven, Mississippi.
unidentified
Those points of light looked just like the stars, and they formed an asymmetrical triangle.
They didn't seem to be all arranged evenly, but I was really impressed with how much of the how large it was and how slow it was moving.
I was sort of blinded by the screen on my video camera, but I pointed it as best I could up to where the three points of light were and tried to get something, but there was no way to see on the video camera screen the objects because it just doesn't show small points of light very well.
And that would tend to support the idea that this was a formation of three objects moving in exquisite precision over three minutes, not any kind of a large object, especially since all of us seemed to see the stars in and around the moving stars.
Nancy Martin, corporate marketing assistant in Olivet, Missouri.
unidentified
They were moving too slowly to be satellites, and they moved till almost directly overhead, and then they faded to a brownish color and kind of flickered out.
Did you, watching through binoculars, note if all three lights, when they stopped, did they fade out together or did one fade out and then another and another?
unidentified
They seemed to fade out just slightly behind each other.
It was 11.05 when they flickered out.
That's when I said it's 11.05.
About five minutes after the lights went out, I noticed an F-15 flew overhead with an extremely bright strobe light following basically their same trajectory.
And this guy was flat out flying.
I mean, he was probably subsonic, but I bet he was doing over 600 knots.
There are NASA satellites called Clusters launched in July 2000 to study the magnetosphere.
There are four of them that travel polar orbits together, and I wondered if cluster satellites could explain the strange triangle formation.
So I contacted Melvin Goldstein, project manager of the Cluster Satellite Program at NASA Goddard in Greenbelt, Maryland.
unidentified
Ben and we pulled up the orbit here.
And starting on day 104, which is April 14th, and running through day 105, which is the 15th, spacecraft are predominantly in the day side of the Earth.
And throughout the entire day 104 until the beginning of April 15th, they're out in front of the Earth on the day side.
And it isn't until very late in the day on the 15th, which is Monday, that they actually go into the night side of the Earth.
But we just eliminated that cluster two could not be.
unidentified
Yeah, cluster is almost impossible to see with the naked eye.
It's been seen with telescopes, but I would have been very surprised if somebody actually had managed to see it with naked eye or even with binoculars.
It was so, it does something to your mind when you see something like a part of the sky actually seem to be moving, almost creeping as if it were using the sky itself as a camouflage.
Most of us seemed to think that, yes, we did, that it was just creeping through the star field, so that it was stars like stars moving in the star field.
A couple of people thought that they could see with their eyes some slight aberrations in and around where the three different star points were moving.
A couple compared it to looking through heat waves or water, but I don't think that the entire group saw that, but that was two of the reports.
Well, this art was as if you're looking up to a star field at night and that it is not anything low.
It is as if the very stars themselves are moving.
And I just also got an email coming in saying this is from a Michael Rapson in Bendigo, Victoria, Australia.
And he's just looked at my website story, and he says that twice he has seen what he thought were stars suddenly move in horizontal paths, stop, move again.
They've seen several stars moving back and forth along horizontal planes, stopping each time.
And on all occasions, they look like ordinary stars before they begin to move and stop.
And these look like ordinary stars.
And what all of us have talked about that night and since is who or what could have been in those three star points of light, if anything.
And if they are programmed by another intelligence to monitor this planet, do they move once a year, once every six months, once every 45 days?
Did we see something that happens only occasionally?
And if they are monitoring, what are they monitoring and why?
What if a non-human intelligence has been monitoring Earth for thousands or millions of years?
Could ancient people in Egypt and Samaria have seen formations of stars move long ago?
Could moving lights in the sky have provoked their obsession with constellations?
And one of the points to bring up right now before I introduce our next guest is that the pilot, Bob Martin, said that where he, because he's the first one who saw these stars emerge moving,
they came right out of where the constellation Auriga is, A-U-R-I-G-A, and moved in those three minutes slowly to the constellation Leo, which is where they seem to stop and fade out.
And joining us now to talk about this question and other news about the Sphinx and Red Pyramid is Egyptian researcher and director of the Ancient Wisdom Foundation, John Anthony West, who wrote a great book entitled Serpent in the Sky.
Well, you know, you've heard the Dover story now, John, and this comment from Bob Martin, the pilot, that he could see this triangle of stars seem to emerge right out of this constellation Auriga and move into Leo.
Is there anything in Egyptian literature that suggests ancient knowledge about star formations that appear to move?
unidentified
Well, in a manner of speaking, yes, there's a generally not, but there's one ancient prophecy, it's about 2,000 years old, that's very dire.
It seems to be promising the end of civilization and complete disruption on everything on earth, environmental disaster and so on.
And there's one passage that says, Then will the earth no longer stand unshaken and the sea will bear no ships.
Heaven will not support the stars in their orbits, nor will the stars pursue their constant course in heaven.
All voices of the gods will of necessity be silenced and dumb.
The fruits of the earth will rot.
The soil will turn barren, etc., etc.
Now, this could be figments of imagination.
It could be, I mean, this is a prophecy.
So who knows what they mean?
It could be a reference to a still earlier time when some kind of cosmic catastrophe occurred and it looked as though the, you know, the Earth might have been out of kilter, but it looked as though the stars were not pursuing their course.
And John, if they had actually seen something like we saw at that Dover Valley last Sunday where the stars seemed to be moving literally in the sky, probably translators through these 4,000 or 5,000 years would have somehow ended up editing that out.
unidentified
Well, very likely, because ancient Egyptian is a language that had to be reconstructed from scratch.
And, you know, most Egyptologists are, I mean, very erudite in terms of translations, but most of them are not terribly, let's say, receptive to the idea of UFOs and that sort of thing.
So it's very hard to tell.
And I'm not an expert in hieroglyphs.
There may be references that simply are considered to be mistakes on the part of the ancient scribes.
And Linda, our other guest, John Anthony West, has provided a link, which we've got up on the website right now, which gives you a virtual tour of Egypt.
And I thought also picking up on something you said, Art, about the idea of some kind of polar shifts on the planet sometimes being involved, I have just done a fascinating interview that will be on Dreamland this coming weekend with somebody on this breaking news about anomalies in our Earth's magnetic field that I hope people will listen to.
I'm hearing from, I got a call from Daniel Brinkley earlier who said Zahi has some big new title, and I'm sure you've got it.
That's right.
And that they're after, they're talking about all these gold mummies.
But according to Daniel, now maybe you can knock this rumor down.
But these gold mummies, he says, are kind of a distraction that they're providing in Egypt right now because there's something a lot more interesting going on.
Is that true?
unidentified
Well, in my view, it is, yes, because This is just another, this is more standard Egyptology in a sense.
But Art, can I just say that Linda didn't give out that website for our virtual video thing?
When you go into Zahi's office, he puts his coffee down for you that would send you into orbit.
unidentified
I like that coffee, but he puts the coffee down.
I mean, I go to the office, and he invites me in and so on.
And this is what makes me, I mean, this is very good because we now have planned this big geologist panel because the crux of this whole theory of really breaking it open, of battering down the door to the ivory tower, is a panel of geologists who corroborate our whole, all of this water weathering work that we've been doing all of these years.
And just for a moment, John, could you please explain the story about the two British geologists who have recently and independently followed your footsteps over there, studied the Sphinx, and they are concluding that there's water weathering as well?
unidentified
Yeah, absolutely.
You see, the academics have all along said, oh, well, Robert Schock is the only one who believes this.
Well, now there are two English geologists, David Coxell and Colin Reeder, who independent of each other and of ourselves, I don't know these people, went over there to look at just this question, the water weathering, and they back it without any reservation whatsoever.
There's only one thing that can be responsible for this dramatic weathering on the sinks, and that's rain, lots and lots of rain pouring down over the sinks and then spilling over the enclosure wall and creating that huge weathering that we see.
The dating is still open to question.
This is something to be solved later on.
I mean, we can't approach that at the moment.
But the whole idea, because the argument is, well, all of these other geologists haven't been there, is to bring a panel of a dozen or so absolutely qualified, uncommitted, objective geologists with the right kind of specialties over there to look simply at the water weathering and not just at the sinks.
We've collected about a dozen pieces of pretty dramatic evidence over the years that, in fact, we presented, Schock presented two years ago at the Geological Society of America's meeting in Reno to a packed house of geologists, all of whom were very, very supportive of the whole idea.
So we feel we're not far from establishing that once and for all.
So we're putting together this panel.
There will also be an RKO astronomer on it and a forensic engineer to look at some of the building problems.
And you've got the same ancient weathering puzzle inside the Red Pyramid at Deshur, don't you?
unidentified
Well, that's a big piece of the puzzle.
It's not quite the same weathering, but inside this red pyramid, it's just opened to the public a few years ago.
There's a very strange-looking chamber.
It looks megalithic, like something out of England or Wales or Scotland.
And the point is that it's made of roughly cut blocks, fairly large, not huge, but it looks megalithic.
And those rocks are weathered.
They're not weathered the same way as the Sphinx, but they're weathered through long periods of exposure to the open air.
And of course, this is in the middle of the pyramid, so they can't have weathered once the pyramid was built.
So we are absolutely certain of this, that this is an older construction, whether as old as the Sphinx, I don't know, but it's an older period of Egyptian civilization.
It was there first, and then the Egyptians built the Red Pyramid around it.
And the Red Pyramid's very early.
It's before the Great Pyramid.
So we're talking about, we're actually talking about a lot of pieces of evidence that come together to support this whole theory.
In other words, that the Egyptians, the ancient Egyptians themselves knew their own history, and they talk about prior reigns, thousands and thousands of years when Egypt was ruled first by what they call the gods themselves, and then by a shadowy group called the Companions of Horus.
And we're talking here about many, many thousands of years.
So this weathering theory is not simply a question of, well, how old is the Sphinx?
Who cares?
It's a question of overturning, in its entirety, everything we've been taught in school about the evolution of human civilization.
And John, in 1991, when you and Dr. Schock went to Egypt and you made the report about the water weathering, I think that Dr. Schock suggested that the Sphinx might be at least 8,000 years old or older, and now you are thinking that it might be as old as 36,000 years?
unidentified
Well, I am, but yes, I am.
And this comes from the Egyptian texts themselves, actually, or hints in the Egyptian texts themselves.
But the question of dating is really, really, is very complex.
And Schock picks the 8,000 years because, let's say, that's the most conservative date that the data will allow.
But he says himself, he said, well, that's an absolute minimum.
But I, for a variety, as I say, of complex reasons, think it's a lot, a lot, a lot older than that.
And older than the 10,000 BC date that Boval and Hancock take closer.
But this remains to be seen.
First things first, First thing is to get the geologists over and get it accepted that this is water weathering and therefore we have to think about redating this thing.
And John, what new technology is in place that can help nail stone aging that has been so difficult in the past?
unidentified
Yeah, well, there's a technique called isotopic analysis, which is to stone what carbon dating is to wood.
In order to do it, it measures the radioactive decay of trace elements in the rock.
So what you need is three pieces of rock of the same kind of rock.
One, virgin bedrock that's never been exposed to the air.
Then another piece, and you know when that's cut, let's say New Kingdom, 1200 BC.
And then rock X, where you don't know.
And then by measuring the isotopes of beryllium, cadmium, there are a few other elements that work with this, and triangulating, you should be able to figure out what the date of rock X is.
Only problem to date is, or big problem I should say, is that no one is really sure if this will give dates in terms of, let's say, thousands of years rather than terms of tens of thousands of years.
So whether or not it's good enough to tell us that something is 20,000 BC or 30,000 BC or something like that, we're not sure until we can do it.
Can't they ultimately, though, John, calibrate that using other dating methods to see if it's accurate in the nearer term?
unidentified
Not that I know of.
But, you know, I put these kinds of things in the back burner because the hardest thing to do in Egypt, if you're trying to do research, is to get samples for this kind of thing.
I don't really, as I said, first things first, and the first thing is to get this water weathering thing established once and for all.
Should we be believing and following what Zahi and company are suggesting that we keep our eyes on in Egypt, or are there things going on perhaps elsewhere that they'd rather not have us looking real hard at?
unidentified
Oh, I don't, not that I know of.
I used to think that something was being concealed, but quite frankly, I don't think so.
And knowing Zahi as well as I know him now, I think that there was something really important.
He's very patriotic, Zahi.
Oh, yes, anything that's good for Egypt, he will do.
And I find it very hard to imagine him sitting on something that he doesn't want us to know.
I used to think otherwise, but I really do now believe that if there was something major, and you know, Zahid, you know, he likes to be in front of the public and be there.
Now, if there's something that comes up that challenges what Egyptians believe to have been true, I mean, after all, you look at us and the Brookings report and all the rest of that, and how would Egypt be any different?
And, John, on this most recent trip, didn't you talk with Zai Hawass about this science panel?
And can you tell us what his reaction was?
unidentified
Sure, sure, yeah.
Well, I've mentioned this to him for over the last few years, and he's been very supportive of the whole thing and said, well, put the panel together and come to me.
But in fact, it was only recently that I came across a fellow with exactly the right kinds of credentials and the right kind of interest, a man who is independent of ourselves, Shock and myself, and he is a geo-archaeologist.
That's what he does for a living.
He studies the geology of ancient, you know, archaeological sites.
And he's very interested in this theory and very keen to get over there and check it firsthand with a team.
So he and Shock will be putting the team together.
Zahi, I've invited, in fact, I prefer it this way, to put some geologists of his own on there so it doesn't look as though we stacked the deck and bring a dozen or so of them over there.
And then, of course, I've got to find the money.
That's what my Ancient Wisdom Foundation is for, to put the money together to get these guys over here.
It's not as though we're building a particle accelerator or building a missile defense shield.
It's relatively financially small pickings, but still I've got to put it together and then get us over there and get these scientists to report on it.
And John, you made a very interesting point when we were talking earlier about that you are now in the challenge of where people were in dinosaur studies years ago.
Could you elaborate on that?
unidentified
Sure, Linda.
Yeah, a little bit.
For hundreds of years, people were finding dinosaur bones, and they were arguing over it, what is this?
Is it a hoax?
Is it a gift from God?
Are they giants?
And the idea that they were extinct animals was around for a long time, but nobody would accept it.
And suddenly, I think the date is precisely 1838.
I forget the name of the geologist.
It might have been Cuvier.
But somebody said the right thing at the right time, and all of a sudden everybody said, oh, yes, this is what we've known all along.
It's an extinct animal.
And suddenly, once the penny dropped in the slot, within a couple of decades, the museums of the world were filled with dinosaurs because everybody was looking for them now that they were established.
So we think the same sort of thing about the lost civilization.
There are bits and pieces and evidence all over the place, but the academia won't accept them at the moment.
But this is why our geology panel is so important, because once we establish that the Sphinx is a hell of a lot older than anybody thinks, then suddenly the whole door opens, and all of a sudden everyone says, ah, ancient civilization.
Now they start looking.
And then once that door is open, the troops rush through.
And just in time, just in time, too, because we need something to break things open to tell us that we're not as smart as we think we are and that actually great spiritually based civilizations existed in the past.
In your virtual reality site, do you take people Beyond the tombs and the pyramids to a place like Napta, where the oldest sort of Stonehenge-like rock circle has been found predating even Stonehenge, according to archaeologists.
unidentified
Actually, not NAPTA, but that's on our plan for our geology panel to get out there and look at the alignments there.
But elsewhere, yes, the red pyramid that we were talking about before, everywhere.
And in fact, on that virtual reality site, it's really, I mean, the technology is absolutely breathtaking.
But those rocks, and there is one of these big slabs in a photograph at EarthFiles.com that is really eerie just looking at a photograph of one of these that are about 7,000 years old.
And this is a circle of these stones, big, like nine foot tall.
And the scientists underscore that the rock was dragged from miles away.
unidentified
Yeah, that's right.
But those are relatively, you know, it's not as though they're stonehand-sized blocks, but still somebody has to bring them there.
And actually, even that 4,700 BC date is probably accurate as far as it goes, but the archaeoastronomer that we hope to bring with us has done, and this is, again, a man with impeccable credentials, has done work that suggests that the nature of the alignment may be suggesting, or let's say, calling attention to, a still much earlier date.
In other words, no argument that the site dates from when it does, but that it contains references to a still much earlier date.
That's one of the reasons why we're so interested.
But as I said, though it sounds wild, it does correspond to, let's say, hints within the Egyptian texts themselves and just the nature of the Sphinx itself.
I'll tell you a funny little anecdote.
I can tell it now.
Shock always never wanted me to tell it, but when he first got into the Sphinx enclosure, he stood there, awed, as you do when you're by the Sphinx, and looking around at this tremendously deeply weathered rock.
He sort of looked around, and he's a geologist, so he sees rock where everyone else sees statue, and he said, wow, he said, these rocks look like they're hundreds of thousands of years old.
And then he turned to me and said, woof.
He said, don't quote me on that.
For years I didn't, but now the cat is out of the bag and I don't mind saying it.
But his formed intuition was that this thing was very, very old.
Peter von Putkammer, film director, joined the monster hunters on their quest to prove the existence of creatures science says aren't there, don't exist.
He's been traveling through dark jungles and mountain caves around the world to document their journey.
Two years in the making, featuring six segments shot in England, Puerto Rico, Tasmania, Southern Australia, New Jersey, that's right, New Jersey, and British Columbia.
There is a Jersey Devil, you know.
His documentary delves into the bizarre world of cryptozoology and the obsessed people who inhabit it.
Obsessed.
Peter von Putkammer has been producing international award-winning films in the U.S. and Canada over the last 20 years.
His documentaries have aired on Discovery Channel, TLC, Canada, U.S., and Europe, Global TV, CBC, CTV, SBS, everywhere it seems.
These programs have won more than 50 international awards.
Von Putkammer has also directed short dramas and worked as a director of photography and editor on PBS documentaries.
Programs have dealt with a variety of issues, anthropology, environment, socio-political themes of various sorts, medical breakthroughs, and films produced for and about Native Americans.
His interest in the mythology and cultures of Native peoples led to a lifelong fascination with unknown mysteries, monsters, legendary animals, and of course the supernatural.
His 1992 film, The Spirit of the Mask, provided an unprecedented look at the fantastic world of Northwest Coast native masks and spiritual messages they contain for our world.
Hosted by best-selling author Awade Davis, The Serpent in the Rainbow, the film featured rarely seen native ceremonies.
Sasquatch Odyssey came about through his interest in the wild man myths of the world.
We know all about those, don't we?
Discussions with producer Julie Glee about the life of Rene DeHinden and his 45-year search for Big Foot.
His most recent film, Monster Hunters, won the Platinum Award from the 35th Annual World Fest Houston Festival in two categories, Best TV Documentary Series and Best TV Documentary Special.
He is a monster hunter, and we've got eyewitness-taped reports for you tonight.
Well, you know, it's very flattering of you to call me a monster hunter, but as a filmmaker, I really consider myself a hunter of monster hunters because what we were really doing in our show was featuring people that, you know, have spent many, many years chasing after these elusive creatures.
And there seems to be no limit to the number of ways you can chase a monster and the approaches you can take.
And, you know, people are coming from all walks of life doing this.
Well, actually, I can tell you a little bit about, like, for me, how this started, like, how I got off on this whole tangent with monsters because my work had been in wildlife photography, wildlife filmmaking, and working with Native Americans, ethnographic films, and so on.
And we got into doing a film called Sasquatch Odyssey, The Hunt for Bigfoot, just two or three years ago.
And we had a chance to follow the life of Renee DeHandon and Peter Byrne and John Green and Dr. Grover Krantz, who just passed away.
And that became a profile of these men that had spent more than 40 years searching for a creature that the rest of the world isn't too sure about.
And that just, to me, it just opened up a whole world of amazing stories and just the determination of these people to go after something with very little evidence, but with some very, very compelling eyewitness reports.
We're going to be talking about things like the Jersey Devil and chupacabras.
Boy, did we deal with that on this show, Tasmanian Tiger, that sort of thing.
We really have done a lot on this program about all of this, but like everybody else up here, we haven't pinned it down.
I mean, we don't have a captured chupacabra or jersey devil to put on display or anything like that.
And yet, I guess I would ask in all of your research, before we even get into all of these cuts we have here, are you convinced that this is not just myth and legend?
Well, I've made up my own little list of creatures from greater credibility to lesser, and that's not to take away from things like the Jersey Devil.
Anytime you have a story of a creature that is born the 13th child of a woman who might have consorted with the devil, your credibility gets stretched a little bit.
But certainly things like the Cadbosaurus, which is, I hope we're going to get into a discussion on that because I think it's, in my mind, the most credible of all of the sea monsters or even lake monsters that I've ever encountered or read about.
I mean, I came away from this basically, I guess, with about an 80% ratio of believability in which I thought, you know, there really is something going on here that, you know, you can't just explain away as mass hysteria or a hoax because there's too many incidents for these things to be hoaxed again and again.
In the case of a chupacabra, I mean, we were down there with a group of paranormal experts beyond boundaries, Joyce Murphy and her group, and also Bob Buck.
And basically what we were doing was, you know, tracking down these stories and seeing how credible they were.
And they were also using some remote viewers to get to places where people hadn't really looked before.
And one of them was the Arecibo Space Telescope.
So that was, yeah, that was pretty fantastic.
I mean, we were really, really out there on the edges of the paranormal.
Well, if you were one of the, in the show I did on Bigfoot, that was a big debate.
I mean, you had this group of, you know, as they referred to, the four horsemen of Sasquatchery, the guys that had been out there in the bush pounding the beat, looking for the physical evidence.
And then you had a school of people that were believing in, you know, interdimensional travel, beaming down from UFOs and this sort of thing.
And definitely there was a big divide there.
I think there's just way too much evidence globally for this wild man myth to be something, a figment of people's imagination because, you know, even in Europe...
Yeah, I believe that they, I mean, my own philosophy on this now and having talked to all of these old-timers about it and also the eyewitness reports is that I believe that Bigfoot may have indeed existed here as it existed on many continents, but isn't necessarily here anymore.
I do think there's been an impact through the deforestation and industry and what have you.
And I think if there's any still around, they've headed for the hills, which I think there used to be a lot more reports on them than there are now, although they still continue to come in.
All right, I've got three apparent tracks that relate to the Jersey devil.
Let's see what we've got here.
Here we go.
unidentified
I seen this thing going across the top of the bushes, and the only way I can describe it is that it was like the mobile horse, the sign of the mobile horse.
Yeah, it sounded like a woman screaming, but real loud.
If you can picture amplification, you know, loudest scream you ever heard, maybe 10 times more or even 15 times more, where it would wake you up out of a dead sleep and it would just scream bloody murder.
And I'm telling you, you had to hear it to believe actually how loud it would be.
All right, that's the first cut, and that's about the Jersey Devil.
And this one, too, Laura Luter, I believe it is, followed by a couple of authors on the Jersey Devil.
unidentified
There's just the immense curiosity that builds up behind this legend.
How can it be a hoax when all of this stuff has happened?
How could all of these people have seen it?
Is it really the 13th child?
Is it a biological creature we haven't found yet?
What is it?
The Jersey Devil has been called the official state demon of the state of New Jersey.
All states have state birds, butterflies, fish, but New Jersey's the only one with a demon.
The Jersey Devil has a number of forms.
Quite a few monsters just have maybe one form that they're known for.
But the Jersey Devil has been anything from a demonic type of shape, one of its most common features, kind of gargoyle looking, with a horse-like head, bat wings.
Put that all together, it makes it a kind of a different unexplained monster.
Listen, we tend to live, you know, kind of in cities.
But if you plan a road trip, which you ought to do, because traveling overseas these days isn't much fun anyway, and you travel across the United States, you will realize very, very quickly that for all we are, 300 million of us, my God, there's a lot of barren territory out there and forested territory, and it's just virtually untouched.
I'm Art Bell, and we have with us a monster hunter camera person.
Maybe that would be better.
We've got a whole lot of cuts for you on these things that science says aren't there, but I think most of us know they certainly are there in one form or another, one dimension or another.
We'll be right back.
unidentified
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
Recharge the Kingdom of 9 from West of the Rockies at 1-800-6188255.
East of the Rockies 1-800-8255033.
First time callers may recharge at 1-775727-1222.
Or use the wildcard line at 17757271295.
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This is Coast to Coast AM with our bell on the Premier Radio Network.
He gets together with people who hunt these things like the Jersey Devil and so much more if you'll just stay right where you are.
I should know better.
I lived in Newark, New Jersey.
I lived in the urban areas of New Jersey, and so I never really thought about it that much.
But a Bob in Allentown, Pennsylvania, Rob rather, points out, AR, except for Newark and Camden, it's not the urban jungle, you might imagine.
New Jersey, of course, is much of it's forested, and a good deal of the area is known as the Pine Barrens coming inland from the shore, and that's exactly where we were with Peter.
I mean, it's like if it happens once, you go, okay, well, you know, maybe somebody was drunk or screaming or something, but for it to happen, and it's totally unpopulated, like this area he's referring to, there's nobody who lives back in there.
It's just a swamp.
And what could have been causing that?
And at the sound, you know, the sound levels, just even to produce that, what is actually making that sound?
Going back to the original legend, and there's a lot of different variations on this story.
You know, things started during the Revolutionary Wars.
And the most popular legend is there was a lady, Mother Leeds.
Now, the Leeds family was a wealthy family in that area, had 12 children, was burdened with too many kids to take care of or what have you, and declared, let this next child be a devil.
And this baby was born.
Apparently, first it looked normal, and then it transformed into a demon in front of them.
And one of the more popular accounts actually killed a whole bunch of people, like ate the parents, and then flew out the window.
The only trouble I have with that is that if there's a paranormal aspect to these creatures, how could they eat people in this dimension where they can barely just appear, scaring the hell out of us?
But I mean, that would imply that this is some real creature, not some paranormal phenomenon.
Well, yeah, I mean, I think we're talking about a flesh and blood demon here.
And I mean, the fact that you've got a hero of the Revolutionary War, Commodore Decatur, you know, at a firing range testing cannon shells for his war against the Barbary pirates.
And he sees the Jersey Devil go by and fires into it.
And some of the grape shot goes through the wing of the Jersey Devil, and it keeps flying.
Well, what was interesting over there is the sightings of phantom big cats, leopards and pumas and cougars in the British countryside is now so common that the police barely even bother going out when they hear about it because, oh, just another panther on the prowl, you know.
And we had our pick of policemen, like, they all had personal encounters with it.
They all knew they existed.
The RSPCA know they're there.
But here's the mystery part.
No bodies have shown up, no dead creatures on the highway, and the government has not officially acknowledged the presence of these animals in the country.
Okay, here's a police officer in the United Kingdom whose name is Police Constable Dave Toon.
unidentified
When I lowered the binoculars and turned to my right, about 10 yards to my right was this big black cat.
And I could see that it was About the size of a small fox, certainly two to three times bigger than a household cat.
It turned, looked at me, and then ran off.
But as it ran, it ran in a loping sort of movement, keeping its head very, very still and very low to the ground, which again is reminiscent of large black cats such as panthers and that type of animal.
This brings us to something that I've discussed extensively on the show.
And boy, have we batted this back around and around and around and around.
The whole chupacabra thing.
We went through a sort of a period of time.
It seemed to last, oh, I don't know, the better part of a year, I think.
And we began to get these reports from Puerto Rico, and then later from South America, then from Mexico, and then from the southwest United States of this really awful creature called a chupacabra.
And it was killing animals and sucking their blood.
And I've got Linda Molten Howe who reported on that.
She took a trip down to Puerto Rico to report on these things.
And whatever in God's name, maybe I shouldn't use that phrase, whatever in whoever's name these, whatever these things are, they're real.
They really did do the things described.
I mean, we had veterinarians report to us on these two marts and all the blood drawn out of animals and stuff like that.
Well, one thing that I, I guess my background in working with native Indians and ethnography and so on, one thing I uncovered that I'd never read anywhere in any of the chupacabra literature was because I was fascinated in the whole phenomenon.
The Taino Indians, who are the ancient people that lived in Puerto Rico before the Spanish came there, the people whose mountain was actually, they traveled there to get closer to the gods.
That's why they went to El Yunque.
It's the highest point in the whole, that area of the Caribbean.
And so they lived there and they had legends about demons and creatures of the night, but they specifically had a legend about something they called the mosquito man.
And I found this legend and mosquito man would travel at night into villages and drill these two small holes into the necks of their victims, draining them of blood.
And so, you know, it got me thinking, okay, there must be some connection to the Chupacabra myth here, or Chupacabra phenomenon.
And it's very, very interesting to me.
Of course, in a number of eyewitnesses, we went out and met people, and I also viewed a lot of existing film footage that was done.
And, you know, people are truly frightened by this.
There was a lady who described one hovering by her window.
It actually moved.
I mean, there's everything from jumping like a kangaroo to, you know, it's hovering, you know, the glowing eyes, and just tremendous strength, so much so that, you know, there's a well-known account now of a 1,500-pound bull being taken down.
Well, amongst our group, the Beyond Boundaries group that was down there, I mean, there were a lot of different theories, and one of them was that, you know, it was some kind of alien pet.
Alien pet because there were sightings of UFOs and then chupacabras.
You know, it's a genetic experiment.
Military, there's so many military secret bases in Puerto Rico, including one right at the very, very top of El Yunque, the Taino Indians legendary mountain, that, you know, it sits right in the rainforest, right where this thing is supposed to exist.
And it gets you thinking, you know, is this some kind of government genetic experiment gone wrong?
And that's what one of our monster hunters believes.
I mean, we had veterinarians on the job examining these creatures.
And this is not somebody's imagination.
Something was definitely poking two holes in the neck.
And by the way, I might add a very weird way and drawing every bit of blood out.
And then there's this other thing, this weird thing about this chup copper, and that's that it's kind of like it came, it traveled, it killed, and then it went away.
It went away.
And who knows if it's going to be back, but we haven't had reports now for a while, or are you getting reports?
I haven't had any brand new reports on this, but it seems like these things kind of come and go in different stretches of time as reports come in.
But one thing that was interesting is we had a chance to talk to the mayor of a town that actually built a steel cage and had 200 of his civil defense troops out there trying to trap one of these.
Well, he's one of the only government officials down there who's actually come forward, and he's basically just trying to make his area safe for his people.
And there were, I mean, the head of his security team there, he's talked to a lot of people.
He's been out on, you know, he's packing a rifle out there when he goes out there.
And he's convinced that, you know, there's something real out there.
But they were tying goats to trees, and they had this cage, and they were serious about trying to actually capture this.
I think nowadays more than ever, unfortunately, the world, it's gotten much tougher for monster hunters to prove the existence of things because with the digital photography and Photoshop and all those sorts of things.
And I think that's what science is waiting for, is some kind of body that can be examined.
I'm not sure why more hasn't been made of this veterinarian, Carlos Soto, who we got some tape of as well.
I mean, he's very, very clear about, I mean, he's examining animals, and he's talking about a tube-like device that is being inserted into the internal organs of the animals, because he's finding spaghetti-like holes all the way through the bodies of these animals.
Now, I mean, he's a trained medical, I believe he was trained in the United States, you know, he knows what he's looking at, and I'm not sure why that hasn't been followed up a bit more.
Well, we actually, I wasn't too satisfied with any of the depictions I had seen in sketches or anything else, because most of them were hastily drawn eyewitness sketches.
And while we didn't exactly have a Hollywood budget on this film, we did manage to get one of the people who work on major television series, science fiction series, to construct a chupacabra for us.
And we have with us tonight a monster hunter, Peter von Kammer.
Stay right where you are.
unidentified
And the rain's like a whale through the night And when she loved to love her Takes to the sky like a bird of light And who will be her lover?
Well, your life you've never seen, woman Take your back Music
I've had nothing but bad luck since the day I saw the cat at my door.
So I came and hear you, sweet lady.
This is when your mystical call.
Crystal ball on the table.
Showing the future to the past The same cat with them evil eyes And I knew it was a spell she cast She's just a devil woman with evil on her mind Beware the devil woman, she's gonna get you She's just a devil woman with evil on her mind Beware the devil woman, she's gonna get you from behind
Art bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, at 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nive.
Well, there's a lot of theories on that, of course, but I think Puerto Rico is a unique environment for creating such a creature as a chupacabra because you have these Tino-Indian legends,
you have the secret government bases there, you have a rainforest, and it's an island.
I mean, we did talk, you know, we talked to the people at Arecibo and we talked to the people in the national park, you know, and of course they're very adamant of their not being such a creature there.
Arecibo sent one extremely strong short burst into space.
This might interest you.
And that was many, many years ago.
And then scientists here And in Canada both, lobbied to stop it because they said, you know, what you're doing here is serious, and it may well be that you're going to send a signal out, something this strong, and it really is going to be received, and we're going to have some visitors that we wouldn't like.
And based on that psychology, they stopped sending signals.
Arecibo now only receives.
Isn't that interesting?
But that one signal did go blasting out there, so yeah, something might have homed in on it.
And so, sure, the jupacabra originating from that point might make some sense.
There you are, Peter.
All right, what do we know about the Cadbrosaurus?
For one thing, if you haven't seen the photograph, we've got one on our website, monsterhunters.com, but it's basically, I think, the best cryptozoological image that I've ever seen, short of maybe that famous Patterson film from Sasquatch days back in 1967.
I mean, this is better than any image that was ever taken of Loch Ness or any other lake monster.
There's a picture of a juvenile version of one of these creatures that's been pulled from the belly of a sperm whale, and it was propped up on the dock, and it was taken by a first aid officer.
This is at a whaling station in northern British Columbia in 1937.
So what it is, essentially, is a snake-like creature with clear humps and a camel-like head and a tail that's quite detailed.
And it's, you know, you can actually blow this up and you can see kind of an articulated, almost hand-like, you know, almost like a lobster tail or something coming around on it.
And it's about sort of 12 to 14 feet long.
We actually interviewed in the show an 86-year-old dock worker who was there when they pulled this thing out.
And he was a real no-nonsense guy.
And he just said, you know, we saw lots of things come out of whale stomachs, but we never saw anything like this.
That's why we took the time.
We were busy people, but we took the time to set this thing up.
They put white sheets in behind it so you could see its color.
You know, it would stand out against the gray wood of the dock.
And they took several pictures of it, and it's very clear.
And, you know, we showed this to scientists.
And, you know, most people cannot conjecture as to what this thing might be.
But there's a whole history of actually what happened to the body and what the scientists at the time said and all of that.
And then you just click once and leave the mouse cursor on there.
It's a little awkward, but it stays up, and you should be able to see the picture of this creature.
But I'll tell you, in the meantime, that this creature has been sighted for centuries by Native Indians.
It's integral.
This is what makes it better to me than Loch Mess, is that you've got Native Indian people that I've talked to who've seen it to this day, but it's an integral part of their culture.
I mean, it's on drums, it's on their whaling canoes, and it fits the description.
Like their image of it fits the eyewitness descriptions that happened much, much later of what people actually saw with a horse or camel-like head, a kind of a mane and these humps.
And this animal has been described as being anywhere from 25 feet to 80, 90, 100 feet in length.
Well, there's an area near Victoria on Vancouver Island.
So this is British Columbia.
And it's a place called Deep Cove.
And this is where the most frequent sightings happen.
And this one person you heard was actually a commercial pilot.
And we actually went up with him and surveyed the area.
And went with one of the scientists.
And there are, in fact, two scientists, former head of oceanography, University of British Columbia, Paula Blonde, and a biologist, Dr. Ed Bousfield from back east.
And the two of them have been trying to get this classified as a legitimate creature for 30 years.
Well, this, of course, is what makes this a great mystery monster hunt, is that, okay, what I understand is that the company, the shipping company, whaling station, basically put this thing on a bit of a roadshow.
And the curator at the time, a fellow named Francis Kermod, who was actually a taxidermist by trade and not a trained zoologist or anything, he looked at it and declared that it was a fetal baleen whale, like a very young juvenile-type baleen whale.
But it actually doesn't look anything like that.
And it doesn't look like a rotting basking shark or any of these other famous explanations.
In the past, people have found lumps on the beach or they found things that looked like sea serpents.
And they proved to be like a rotting basking shark carcass.
As it rots away, you end up with a spine, a little head, and these fins that jut out.
Well, let me just tell you another thing about this creature.
There was a series of coincidental things that happened on this that were quite remarkable for me.
Now, we interviewed this lady, that Terry Osland, who you heard first.
Her encounter with this creature, she was walking her dog, and she came down to the beach, and this animal was on the beach, 30 to 40 feet long.
The neck was up 15 feet in the air, staring at her.
And, you know, and so you kind of go, oh yeah, well, gee, that sounds pretty fantastic.
But then I'm up on an unrelated, on a different project, actually.
I'm in a native community in northern British Columbia, and I'm talking to these people, and I said to them, these are native Indian women, and I asked them about this island that's just off of their reservation there, and they said, well, that's a special place.
That's where our young people went for initiation.
So we've left that alone.
We don't touch that at all.
It's all forested, and we've left it.
And they said, the other thing that was special, that's the place where the serpent used to come out of the water onto the beach.
And if you were a young person on a vision quest and you saw that, that brought you great luck in your life.
But this was described as the place where the serpent came up on the beach.
Well, I mean, the one thing that we talked to, you know, a well-respected scientist about this whole phenomenon, and he was actually pretty open-minded about it.
I mean, he said, for him, the deep ocean is, you know, uncharted territory, and he is open to the idea of there being these types of creatures there.
And a friend of His, he told us kind of off the record, I guess, but he said that a friend of his, who is also, you know, whose opinion he respects as a trained scientist and so on, did see a wake moving at about 20 knots through Deep Cove one day, and it just, you know, totally, totally confused him.
He couldn't figure out what it was.
It wasn't a whale, it wasn't a seal, and it was very, very odd.
And you've seen pictures of Nessie, I'm sure, right?
Do you know that we actually know a lot less about what's at the very deepest part of our oceans than we know about near-Earth space, which we inhabit on a regular basis?
We don't inhabit the depths on a regular basis.
I'm Arn Bell.
We'll be right back.
unidentified
Time, time, time.
See what's become of me Time, time, time To see what's become of me
While I looked around All my possibilities I was so hard to please The ground Leaves the ground And the sky Is a hazy shade of winter To rechart bells in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
If you go to tonight's guest on my website, artbell.com, tonight's guest, and you'll look down for Peter's name, and then down below that, you'll see related image that Keith just got up.
World Trade Center, Angel Bird, or what?
I want you to click on that and look at it a bit.
It'll cause your blood to run cold.
Now, we have to thank somebody out there for this, Stephen Moron, who apparently has copyrighted a house and picture and provided it for us, including a close-up.
And holy moly, if this doesn't, I don't care where you think that thing is, closed in or far out, it's a pterodactyl.
This is some kind of monster, and it was there during the World Trade Center attack.
You go take a look for yourself on my website, artbell.com, right now.
I mean, I'd like to see it, you know, I'd like to see some kind of scrutiny of it a little bit.
Like, I'd like to know, you know, where it was taken and, you know, what the circumstances were and, you know, what an expert thought about it, I guess, you know, just in terms of photographically.
They were obviously after the pictures of the devastation going on.
I mean, that's photography was all about that.
Yeah, where is that actually taken?
I don't have the whole story behind it, but I know it was one, I think it was some sort of professional photograph taken during the 911 disaster, and this just showed up on it.
And I don't know what to make of it, but it shouldn't be there.
Now, obviously, as you point out, we live in a time when people can do probably almost anything, but people will argue, well, you know, okay, well, this thing isn't that really big.
It's closer to the camera than you think.
Even if that's true, with the blow-up, you know, that's pretty historic to me.
What we tried to do in this show, when I looked at, you know, we sort of did this definitive Bigfoot documentary and I wanted to deal in one of these episodes with a wild man and one that maybe isn't as well known in America, certainly quite well known in Australia.
And there's a group over there, Australian Hominid Research fellow named Dean Harrison heads it up and they are very, very serious monster hunters.
They go out with a whole load of tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment.
They're not unlike the Sci Factor team.
They go out and they actually do surveillance around homes.
They set up tripwires, infrared, cameras hidden in logs.
I mean, you can't believe the degree of detail these guys go to try and capture this thing on camera.
Now what we're talking about is a Bigfoot-like creature in Australia, one that's been recorded again in Aboriginal stories.
But it seems to be quite a bit meaner than our one over here.
And if you hear Dean does talk on the clip about its preferred killing method, it's just nocturnal and all the hunts are conducted at night with minimal, almost virtually no lighting actually at all.
It was a real challenge for us to tag along on that one.
They actually communicate, monster hunters communicate through tiny sapphire lights, sort of, you know, button-sized lights on their lapels.
We're going to hear from Dean Harrison now, and we're going to follow that with Neil Black, a school teacher who actually saw this yowie creature.
So first, Dean Harrison.
Here's Dean.
unidentified
The favorite means of death of animals by the yowie, decapitation, the quick break of the neck, and bodily dismemberment.
All those things don't sit very well with me.
I was told we have kangaroos, wallabies, wombats, everything, but what I heard behind that bush is something I have never heard, and nor could I describe that roar to anybody.
It was so menacing, so savage, and it was directed at me.
It made the hair of my neck literally stand up.
I break it into goose pimples every time I think about it.
All right, now we've got a school teacher who actually saw what he's just talking about.
unidentified
The owl stood up directly in front of me.
It was about six foot.
It was standing outside.
It reached across through the bush at me and roared in my face.
It then took off through the bush at rather high speed, pushing everything out of its road like a mechanical backhoe, I suppose the best way to describe it.
It's pushed everything out of the road and roared as it went.
Well, I'll tell you, having done the show on Bigfoot and then coming to this Yaoi phenomenon, I was impressed.
The number of people that come forward on this, there was one neighborhood where apparently 60 people, 60 people have seen this in one area.
It's so common that they actually, I mean, they basically went on a chase with it every night.
They'd go chase it through the bush, and they'd hear it stomping like a freight train moving in front of them.
The school teacher, Neil, his family was something like Harry and the Hendersons.
I mean, they had this animal in their backyard swamp, and the kids knew about it, and it was, oh, yeah, we're going to go down and try and, you know, have another encounter with this thing.
Yeah, there's some pretty nasty stories about you know finding sort of large animals partly up trees that have been you know ripped apart by one of these things and there's actually you know if you wanted wanted to know more about it they have a really good site yowie hunters.com a-h-r there they have like reports all the time about these things and
and they go out and really investigate them.
You know, they're very, very serious about their investigations and what they're trying to do.
And another thing that's very unusual, and I guess a bit comical to some people, is that these yaoi's leave these bite marks in trees, and it's because in Australia they have these beetle grubs.
And there's a big debate on this, and we talked to scientists about it, and they said it's black cockatoos that do this and they rip the trees apart because they look like even canine marks on the trees and as Dean said this cockatoo if it's a cockatoo it better have a tape measure going along at six foot intervals.
So it's very unusual and I've seen examples of these bite marks that they leave behind.
I'm curious, if you were to get lucky enough to go out with a group and there you are with your camera and you actually get into the presence of one of these things, professional as you are, do you really think you could keep the camera pointed and really stay on the job or would you beat feet?
I mean after all you do go out so you may eventually encounter I mean I've shot wildlife and I've shot some dangerous animals and I you know I was just down in Mexican caves looking for blind cave tarantulas so I've been in some fairly dangerous and tricky situations.
I think that's the great, you know, other than the deep oceans, you know, what's inside the Earth is another great unknown.
And I don't know.
It's hard to say.
I guess, you know, ever since Journey to the Center of the Earth, there have been stories of alternate worlds down there and indeed, you know, whole new forms of life.
I did hear, I was investigating a story about caves in Romania where they virtually discovered a lost world of primarily, you know, smaller, you know, reptiles and bats and what have you.
But it was literally, this was about 1995, 96, and they discovered all these new species.
They just cracked open this cave, and inside were all of these unknown species that had never been discovered before.
Well, I actually seem to remember hearing quite an interesting one on your show one night, which was some kind of hole where someone had been putting miles of fish line down into it.
And he has now found a second hole that you might be interested in, located here in the state of Nevada.
And the people doing investigation, follow-up investigation on this hole, are finding people in the area of the original Mel's Hole up in Washington State that are backing his story about this hole.
While nobody's actually, you know, an organized party has found it yet.
They are looking, and they think they're closing in on it, and they think they know roughly where it is.
So there may be some portholes to some other place below us in the earth.
When we get back, we will open the lines and let you ask, or who knows, maybe some of you have sightings of some of these things.
They are obviously out there.
But what are they to us?
And have they always been there?
Or do they sort of come and go?
From the high desert.
I'm going to go now and then we'll come back.
I'm Art Bennell.
unidentified
I'm Art Bennell.
I keep home.
My people can move down the moon and start Where am I going now that I'm going to fall?
Now I'm stepping into the twilight zone The race in my house feels like me now My people can move down the moon and start Where am I going now that I'm going to fall?
So you are going to grow On the bullet and the bone So you are coming through When the bullet hits the bone Call our bell in the Kingdom of Nye from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with our bell from the Kingdom of Nai.
Let that loose title stick, and we're talking about all kinds of monsters, and you're invited to participate in this hours.
We're going to open up cell phone lines.
We do have one more.
I don't know if you'd call it a monster or not, the Tasmanian tiger.
Talk about that Tasmanian tiger.
Oh, and by the way, Mary in New Mexico says, referring to the picture on my website, which you all can see, let me tell you one more time, go to tonight's guests, and you'll see World Trade Center, Devil or Angel, something like that.
Click on that.
That's the picture we're talking about.
Tonight's guest.
That's where to find it at artbell.com now.
Mary says, you know, that picture looks more like either the angel of death or a dragon.
I'm not sure.
But God says in the end times, you'll see signs and wonders.
Don't concern yourself with them.
But says Mary, it's hard not to.
All right, back now to my guest, Peter.
You're back on the air again.
And I guess we're going to talk a little bit about the Tasmanian tiger before we take any calls here.
It's the last item that I've got on the list here.
Let's give them a little taste of what we've got here.
We've got a Colonel Bailey, who's a monster hunter, on a camping experience.
And then this Dr. Michael Archer from the Australian Museum discusses a cloning experiment, which is about to bring back, apparently bring back, the Tasmanian tiger from extinction.
So those two cuts coming up right now.
First, Colonel Bailey.
unidentified
It was early one morning.
Out of nowhere came this mysterious yip, yip, like a fox terrier dog, a high-pitched yip, yip, and almost immediately an echo like that.
I was fascinated.
Now, this is exactly as old Bushman had told me the tiger sounds like.
I knew then, in my own mind, that the tiger was there.
All right, and now Dr. Archer, Dr. Michael Archer, who apparently is prepared, has enough DNA to bring this thing back.
Listen to this.
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We've discovered that a pickled pup of a thylacine, an animal we all thought and accept broadly, as extinct, has been extinct since 1936, was actually preserved by a collector in Tasmania in 1866.
In pickling this pup, he passed into the future the possibility that its DNA could be preserved.
So we dipped into this pickled pup just on the off chance and against a storm of people who said it's impossible, you'll never find it.
And when we came up, there was this wonderful, high-quality DNA in vast quantities.
And the Australian Museum has, they seem to be in a bit of a race with the mammoth people because there's a group trying to clone a mammoth, and the mammoth people aren't having much luck.
Well, could it not be true that here'd be my thinking.
The natural course of events as evolution plods on and time plods on is that some animals become extinct for some specific reason.
Either what they eat is gone or climate change or something or another has changed so that they're extinct, whatever it is that causes an animal to go extinct.
But if you bring them back into the modern world that's not ready for them, inevitably, as they said in Jurassic Park, there's some mathematical formula that covers this, but it's going to go all wrong.
I mean, what's great about this story is you have sort of one man against the world.
I mean, there are other thylacine.
It's called the thylacine, another name for the Tasmanian tiger.
There's more than one thylacine hunter, but really Cole Bailey has been leading the charge here, and he's in a race against time now to prove that this animal exists before science goes ahead and tries to clone this thing and maybe creates another monster.
I've been listening to Art Show for a long time, and that gives me the opportunity to hear different sounds that are emitted by different creatures.
Yes.
And connecting the dot, it seems to me, and I have that question, what do you think about it, is that to me, some of these creatures are definitely genetically engineered by aliens.
And I say this because of the metallic and machine quality-like of the scream or the sounds they make and also the energy they have.
And, you know, in opposition with real Earth monsters that I know exist too, you can feel have a natural quality to them of the Earth.
I don't know how to explain this very well, but I can't.
You'd kind of have to go through these creatures and pick out the biologically base ones and the ones that were more in the realm of the paranormal or demonic or what have you.
Or even in the case of the chupacabra, I mean, it could well be an alien creature of some kind.
Back in the 50s when I was in college, at several of the bull sessions that we were involved in, we had this Texan there.
And he was telling us all these fantastic stories, including some about pterodactyls down in the Big Bend area.
And I kind of passed them off and filed them for future reference, laughingly, until a couple of the people who were related to exozoology on your show happened to mention Texas sightings of pterodactyls.
Yes.
I'll grant you there's an awful lot about places we don't know, and even here in the San Francisco Bay Area, I know for doggone, sure, there are places in the Santa Cruz Mountains where a man has never put his foot.
So even in the places that we consider the most urban of all, nearby, there are areas, as he points out, Santa Cruz Mountains are a really good example, that are just absolute, total, for the most part, untouched wilderness, places where man has never put his foot.
The pterodactyl thing is fascinating to me, especially because tonight someone actually emailed me an image, and I'm sure you've probably seen this one.
I had only ever seen sketches of this.
It appears to be some Civil War soldiers with what looked like a downed pterodactyl lying on the ground in front of them.
Have you ever run across a claim of someone who has had an encounter with Bigfoot of hearing it speak or speaking to it or having any type of conversation?
We, in our show, decided to go with the reptilian.
To me, it made the most sense to have the reptilian.
I have heard of hair covered and so on, but everything else about the creature is very reptilian.
The claws, the sort of slithering appendage that comes out of its mouth, even descriptions of the skin and, of course, the spikes that come off the head and down the back.
Okay, what do you think about all this, and where do you fit in?
unidentified
Oh, well, I'm strictly just involved with the Cabrosaurus off Victoria, Vancouver Island, B.C. Okay, well, can you tell us about it?
Well, what we have is about 300 years starting back with native folklore and myth of a large serpentine animal anywhere from 30 to 60 feet long that people have been seeing right up to this very day and reporting off the waters here on the island.
And we started a group called Caddy Scan in 1999 with Ed Bousfield and Paul LeBlond, a couple of marine biologists who had previously written a book.
And now we're trying to find some sort of definitive footage or physical evidence for this unknown animal.
I actually phoned up, and this is me and Peter, sorry?
Yes.
Oh, well, Peter gave me a call, and he was doing a documentary, and he said he would love to do something on the Cadbrasaurus, mainly because I think no one's ever really heard about it.
And they were trying to cover animals that not a lot of people might have heard.
And as far as Loch Ness and these other lake monsters, this is the Ogo Pogo, there's a lot of stuff on this, but Cadbrosaurus has kind of remained one of Victoria's best-kept secrets.
Are there any photographs in existence or just sightings?
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The two best photographs we have are from a book called Whalers No More from Captain Hagelin.
And there were two very clear photographs in 1937 off the Queen Charlotte Islands of a specimen, a dead specimen, that was pulled out of a stomach of a sperm whale.
And these guys got really excited about it.
And unfortunately, it was one of these things that was sent to someone who was unqualified, dismissed it as something else.
It really is a terrible problem we have in modern days.
The only thing that you can say is before we got Photoshop 4 and 5 and whatever, before all of this stuff was available, before computers, we had Polaroids.
And a lot of people got shots of these same creatures with Polaroids, right?
The fellow where you set up the camera and he saw the humps, the firelight humps?
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This is Bob.
Oh, geez, what's his last name now?
And we set it up in his backyard.
And on 19, I think it was 1998, I'm terrible with dates, he was outside and he saw something that he had never seen before, tire-like humps suddenly appearing, moving in a period, moving in a straight line, moving so quickly, he couldn't believe the speed.
A lot of the people that see these things can't believe the speed that they move at.
Anyway, a number of years later, he found my name and was very happy to hear that he agreed to a permanent camera installation at his place.
So we have this running on motion sensor 24 hours a day.
He spent his life on the water and he saw this thing and said, this is something different.
unidentified
Which most of these guys do.
There's a lot of guys that run tours and things like that.
One fellow that was off in a local marina with a tour group.
And the thing with the Cadbrosaurus is that we do not really take seriously sightings with bumps unless it is someone quite knowledgeable, like a commercial fisherman.
But some people report animals with 12-foot necks, a horse-like head, and several loops behind.
Okay, well, again, I've got to ask this question of you, Jason.
We covered it earlier, but I mean, even if we actually get a live specimen of one of these things.
We live in such a, I don't know, a cynical Photoshop world that I don't care how live it is.
You know, it's liable to go on tour, and everybody will view it as some sort of weird oddity or malformation of something.
They'll call it a million things, but will they really scientifically admit here's what we've got?
I don't know.
I don't think that's too likely.
How about you?
unidentified
Well, I think Ed or Paul, being the scientist, they could better answer this question.
A number of things could happen.
I actually hope that if it happens, it is a dead specimen so that we don't have to go through all the moral decisions of what's going to happen next.
There's every possibility we might get a live one.
We do have considerations for live marinas here on the island that are friends of theirs that will deal with this if this happens, because we have had a lot of reports of people walking down the beach and seeing what they describe as baby dragons.
See, what I said about the native Indian stuff earlier, they know that these things come up on the beach.
It's part of their education for their young people.
They tell them, go to that island, because that's where the serpents come up out of the water.
And they come on the beach, and there's different theories about them maybe birthing up there or going for, you know, fresh water or God knows what.
But they might be like turtles, you know, that have to come ashore for these sorts of things.
unidentified
It's really hard to say.
Ed sometimes is theorized that these might be animals that give birth to live young and may come into warm channels or be it right onto land to give birth.
And it's sort of, the whole thing is kind of ending up more like a detective story than a mystery, really, of tying all this stuff together and whether this is the same species or not.
Have been seen at the same location, as well as, you know, somebody might report something that looks a little different, maybe male-female sexual dimorphosism, larger heads, perhaps a mane.
It's fascinating what we hear, and what the information that comes from are from blue-collar Canadians and people in careers.
They have absolutely nothing to gain by phoning us up.
Jason, I'm sure you heard Peter earlier talking about what they're going to do with this Tasmanian tiger.
You know, they've got this DNA and they're going to try and bring back this extinct animal.
I suppose there are other monsters, like the one that you're hunting, that you might get a piece of or get some DNA of or something like that.
One might imagine you'd get a piece of one and then you get the DNA so you could create these things, and apparently they're ready to create something that doesn't really belong on Earth right now.
In other words, we've kind of gone through both episodes tonight, but if you want to see the visuals and the interviews, it's all going to be on the Learning Channel.
How do you hook up, I'm curious, with the Learning Channel versus, oh, I don't know, a million other shows?
Well, mostly because we produced our show, Sasquatch Odyssey, The Hunt for Bigfoot, which we are actually selling, and people can pick up from us on our Monster Hunter site or SasquatchOdyssey.com.
That one we produced in 99, won a lot of awards for it, and we actually sold it to TLC.
And on the strength of that, we talked to them about more monsters and more people that are looking for them.
And they were intrigued and backed us on this series.
They have fangs about 5 inches long, and they weighed about 2,000 pounds.
And they have actually found evidence that basically early Native Americans were corralling these and penning them like cattle in caves and like domesticating them.
They were around at the same time, 5,000 to 10,000 years ago.
These things still walked around the New World.
And there are suggestions that these animals may still be there.
so we're looking at a whole you know doing more of these programs uh...
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we're hoping there's a public interest in that and we want to be like oh Yeah.
And, you know, we all kind of grew up watching, you know, the In Search of shows and the Arthur C. Clarke shows.
And there really hasn't been a lot, in my mind, that's been provocative and interesting.
And I wanted to do something different that looked at the monster hunters and used the latest technology and night vision and all the hardware we've got now to make a really fascinating and entertaining show.