Whitley Strieber reports 24 UFO Congress attendees vanishing in Chile’s Cipresas River National Reservoir (April 2003), while Richard C. Hoagland dissects NASA’s Mars Odyssey images—like the mile-long "Face on Mars" and the DNM pyramid—arguing their unnatural geometry, including 19.5-degree angles, suggests an ancient civilization’s deliberate message. Hoagland dismisses radiation concerns as a fabrication to delay manned missions, citing Sean O’Keefe’s 2002 nuclear propulsion vision and NASA’s past NERVA program shutdown despite success. He predicts controlled disclosures via infrared imagery and warns of suppressed electrogravitic tech, linking Martian discoveries to humanity’s survival and potential economic upheaval like Enron’s collapse. [Automatically generated summary]
And I just noticed something before I did the show.
Once I put on the headphones, you know, with my microphone, I always wear a headset with a microphone.
It's the only way I operate.
I leave you hands free to turn around and look around without going off mic.
Because I move all around this room to computers and stuff.
And I noticed that before the show actually started, I talked to myself.
It just, you know, I'm giving time cues and stuff like that.
And I'm sitting here doing it in the mic and realizing, not really realizing that absolutely nobody is listening.
Even talking about the music, you know?
That's weird.
Well, we had, as you know, a gigantic windstorm here in the Park Valley.
Told you about it yesterday morning.
It was devastating to parts of the valley.
Parts of the valley look like they've been hit by a hurricane or a tornado, you know, houses turned upside down.
Oh, my God.
I took a bunch of photographs, but in view of the fact that it's private residences here, I'm not going to put them up.
The devastation here is awful.
Now, look at this.
What is God trying to tell us anyway?
Tonight, I'm going to read you a forecast for our area tonight.
Mostly clear and breezy.
That's what they call it in the desert when it's not real windy.
Lows near 43 south wind, 15 to 25 miles an hour with local gusts to 35 miles an hour.
But then tomorrow, they actually use the word windy.
And with it, they associate gusting to 45 miles per hour.
So here it comes again.
The man who wrote the book with me, my co-author, is Whitley Streeber.
And let me tell you, folks, there's something going on in South America that you don't know about.
But in a minute, you're going to.
Whitley's got the lowdown as much as one can have it at this hour.
But there is action in South America.
Now, also, I want to drop in Dr. Stephen Greer is going to be on tomorrow night.
We've rescheduled him for tomorrow night.
And then coming up in the second hour, Richard C. Hoagland, we've got the new Mars Photographs of the Face, as many of you know.
And so, oh, we have so much to talk about with Richard.
That's kind of a...
there's going to be a lot happening tonight.
I suggest you stay right where you are.
Proving at times that half a thunderclap is better than nothing.
All right.
Now, down to Texas, where they had some tornadoes today.
I was looking at that on a weather map.
It was weather.
Oh, my God, the weather.
But that's not the reason he's here tonight, although I would say we probably ought to spend a few minutes going, We Told You So, or something like that.
Here is author of one of my favorite books of all time.
Well, that's all I have, because one of the problems I've had with this is that I can't get a hold of anyone involved in this conference who is in Chile, including the people I know from the States and Europe who went there.
There's been quite an extraordinary wave of UFOs near Alice Springs in the past month.
And this is what's so interesting about this.
One of the investigators says, quote, the witness told me she saw a triangular-shaped craft, and then three silvery beings came out of it and walked toward her.
Well, the thing is that it doesn't really work where basically all you have to do to get rid of them is to send up jets.
It's not hard at all.
You have to shoot.
You have to indicate that you don't want them here, and that's what our government does.
So it's at a very low level here.
And I think that, frankly, that if this ever solidifies and becomes a permanent state of contact, the countries that are involved in it will become the leaders of the world over the next few years.
They don't necessarily, people in those countries, scientists in those countries, don't necessarily believe in UFOs.
They're no different from scientists here, but it's a much more open-minded situation, and there's certainly no question of any kind of military action against them.
In Australia, I don't really know what the situation is.
I do know that the Outback has, especially around Alice Springs.
Well, I know, but the thing is that you'll find that stories that appear in the non-English language press do not arrive in the United States very quickly.
But, you know, we're reading these, and one of the great things about a system, a news-gathering system like we have on our website is that there's volunteers all over the world speaking every language and every newspaper.
If something like this happens, we're going to hear about it.
Well, how do you imagine that might have happened?
I mean, what I said a little while ago really still is, you know, if there was technology gain to be made, I just can't believe the United States would, in essence, drive them off.
And what's just because they're scared of them, they don't understand them?
Well, if you read, I believe the National Space Act of 1953, we cannot NASA, for example, cannot release any information about essentially unknowns in outer space until it's cleared by the military.
The military is never going to clear it if they don't know whether or not it represents a threat.
Therefore, the bureaucracy has been frozen.
But you know, back in 86 and 87 and 88, when I was just fresh out of my communion experience, I was being asked questions by many people in the intelligence community and in the United States government in various areas.
They knew nothing.
Except they all did come to me with the same assumption, and that is that it was real.
At the same time, the press in this country and in most of the Western world has a kind of institutionalized, knee-jerk reaction of laughter.
And it's nervous laughter is what it is.
They're scared.
They're all scared.
But apparently in the culture of Latin America, in the Spanish-speaking world, people are just more open and more willing to take a look at it.
Okay, well then, is it logical to think that at an event of that sort, there would be any number of people who would have video cameras running, if not an absolute dedicated camera to document the whole thing?
Well, if I get a video of a ship and, let me see, silver men and 24 people disappearing, or even two out of the three, I think, Witt, that would do the trick for me.
I hit up, hit up, cool down When something gets in my way I go round it Don't let life get me down.
Gonna take it the way that I found it.
I got music in me.
Yeah.
I got music in me.
I got music in me.
Be inside of the sand, the smell of the touch.
There's something inside that we need so much.
The sight of the touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak leaves deep in the ground.
The wonder of flowers to be covered and then should burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing, to lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing, All these things in our memory tall, when the youth will come.
To fuck up Yeah Ride, ride my soul Take this place On that street Just for me
Call our bell in the Kingdom of Nye from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
And the Wildcard line is open at 1775-727-1295.
To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
In 1947, we do have a fairly credible story in the world of ufology.
And then I interviewed Colonel Corso any number of times before his passing, as you know.
And he documents incredibly well a technological transfer that he made of that crashed stuff that led to all kinds of modern inventions that we have now, it is claimed.
So that would mean that we would know that there would be tremendous technological gain from something like this.
And it's hard for me to believe we'd turn our backs on that.
Well, Michael Hesseman was going to have a very early morning audience with the Pope the next morning.
And Monsignor Valducci, partly to celebrate the evening and also partly to play a joke on Michael, who loves good wines, kept bringing out these incredible ancient wines from his wine cellar and torturing him with them.
He'd take a little sip of each one because he didn't want to be, you know, he wanted to be.
Well, no, he was absolutely fine, but when Martino Valducci drove me and Anne back to our hotel, I realized that the three of us were not in such good shape.
I began to see the Vatican and then the rest of Rome shooting around outside like we were aborting you.
Oh, I think the Vatican is aware, and I think the Vatican is very comfortable with it.
The Pope has said that if we ever were to come into contact with people from other worlds, that we should treat them in the same way that we treat human beings.
Okay, but you know, if that's true and the Pope and the Catholic Church behind the scenes are comfortable with it and we're not, then what does that mean?
But remember, inside the United States, despite the problems its government has had with this for 50 years, there are millions of people who are real comfortable with this and can deal with it very handily.
I mean, I had trouble at first, but in the end, I dealt with it and learned from it and lived with it and was very comfortable with it.
Yeah, then I can understand that our government, more than our religious organizations, would freak out and probably and especially if our military essentially couldn't do anything about them and they were powerless.
Our military would never admit that, not in a trillion years, that they could violate our airspace at will and will do nothing.
Basically, our military has signaled to them that we don't want them here.
And they have respected that to an extent.
And so when they come here, it's very much by night and circumspect.
let me get back to this thing with this disappearance.
There are a couple of things about it that are interesting to me.
In particular, one of the comedio Valdiveso, one of the researchers who was reporting, talking about this in the newspaper, said this, quote, during the days before the contacts took place, the people involved in the teleportation were suddenly aware of the existence of the interdimensional gateway.
And this is something that's really familiar to me from my own life.
This sudden awareness where a whole plan of a contact experience will come into your head, and then you go and enact it a few days later, and it happens.
i've had that and so No, I think it's a way of communicating.
I think they can communicate directly into your thoughts.
It's hard for me to believe, and I'm just playing the devil's advocate here, but whatever Spanish language publications there wrote this story, how could they write the story and not say whether the 24 came back or not?
When I get in touch with Sixto, Sixto Paz, the Peruvian investigator who was at the center of the whole business, then I'll talk to him and find out as soon as I get him.
I've sent urgent emails to a number of other investigators who I believe to have been at the conference, and these are people who would have immediately called me or answered me, and they haven't yet, and it's been days, so they must still be there.
Because you're going to see a massive drop in temperatures in the Midwest in just the next couple of days, possibly accompanied by extraordinary storms.
We'll have to see if there's enough moisture in the air.
And by the way, I'm looking at a NOAA projection for tomorrow, and it shows either slight to moderate sort of a corridor that runs from, it looks like, Wisconsin, northern Wisconsin, damn near to, well, right up to the Canadian border, and runs right down over you there, Whitley.
Nope.
So there's going to be some violent weather in the Midwest.
Yeah, it would seem that, you know, when we wrote that book, we said, we told people, honestly, that some of it you would have to consider science fiction or, you know, a little bit of a stretch from exact facts that are known.
But we said what was going to happen, and it's happening tick, tock, tick, tock.
Only time is sped up, and it's happening faster than we thought, as you pointed out.
But I mean, right down the line, Whitley, holy across, creeps me out.
Back in those days, just in 1999, 98, the Argentinian glaciologists who are probably the leading students of the Antarctic ice were predicting the kind of breakups that happened just now in 15 years.
Well, when B broke off, they got a look at C. And I saw a quote from a scientist who said, you know, obviously when one breaks off, you can see into the layers of the next one.
The other thing, though, that this ice breaking off in these massive quantities means is that there is a tremendous amount of fresh water down in the Antarctic.
And this means that this water is conducting heat to temperature very, very differently than the salt water that was there.
And there are other scientists who are recording reduced flow in ocean currents in both the Atlantic and the Pacific now, which is, of course, a big part of our scenario.
Whitley, asking you straight out, would it be your view that there are serious attempts to control the climate, control the weather right now, that there are...
Yeah, well, depending on, of course, what their intent is and who's doing it.
I wish there were art, to be honest with you, because it would mean then we might have some ability to change this.
But if there have been attempts, like with spraying of reflective particles into the upper atmosphere or heating the ionosphere via HARP and things, it's failed because you're talking 92 in New York today.
We're, again, in a situation where we're going to be blindsided, I think, just as it's possible in the UFO thing we will, too, because we're just not able to keep up with these changes on an institutional level.
We just can't do it.
We don't have the imagination.
We don't have the insight.
We don't have the instruments to tell us.
And at the present time, in terms of environmental reporting, we are in the process of shutting down as much as we can in order that people will not know these changes are taking place.
We've got Odyssey going around Mars, and it's just now taken new pictures of the Sidonia region, the face on Mars, the pyramids, the whole schmear, brand new photographs, and who better to talk about it than Richard C. Hoagland, one-time NASA advisor, advisor to Walter C. Cronkite, Angstrom Science Award winner.
Richard C. Hoagland, who's been on this for as long as I've known him.
Now, you don't know how I've just saved you all.
He wasn't going to talk about the Odyssey pictures first.
He was going to save them for last.
And I said, Richard, it just can't happen.
They hang us both.
We need that Odyssey information up front.
So other than a couple little things we'll hit on, the Odyssey information is coming right up.
Stay right there.
All right, all right, right.
From a new location somewhere or another in the New Mexico area, here is Richard C. Hoagland.
So in other words, you've picked up everything you own, and you have yet, once again, moved to a new location.
Well, I can get other stations sometimes, you know, because of the skip.
But, you know, KLB used to come in resoundingly, boomingly, and it was as good as when I used to have the satellite dish and got you directly off the satellite.
There's an electromagnetic change that occurs with mountains.
I've noticed that traveling the country, Richard, using every manner of radio, that on the HF bands, which aren't very far from the broadcast band, as you're going up a mountain, you inevitably experience a really sharp signal loss.
And some mountains, and I guess it depends on what they're made of and a lot of things.
We used to, you know, we were carting stuff back and forth because it's a few miles away from the other place.
We could actually, in the car radio, not get you, and then I could make eyes of contours of when you'd begin to kind of come in, and then if you climbed up the driveway in the old place, you'd come in beautifully.
But nothing here.
I mean, it was like I'd fallen off the edge of the planet.
So as I said, I picked up the phone, I called Alan, and I said, help.
And he says, what do you mean?
I said, can you kind of talk to Bob Crane and tell him my predicament?
Because how can I do art if I can't hear art?
So he called Bob Crane, and Bob, bless his Pick and Heart, sent me by FedEx this exquisite piece of technology.
I mean, this is completely unsolicited, folks, but the CC Radio Plus, which is what he sent me, is the most incredible radio I have ever owned.
Well, I was telling severe art withdrawal until Bob came to the rescue.
And the last few nights I've heard, you know, I've been sitting here working on these new images, and I've been listening to you, of course, because what else would I do at 3 o'clock in the morning?
I cannot, you know, he has an engineer's diligence and a poet's imagination.
And when you read the article, you'll see why he titled it that.
Because these guys at NASA, after they took this picture, which we're going to discuss, you know, in the next few hours, they basically claim that it's all in our imagination and that it's all done by the wind.
The first picture you're going to see on the Enterprise mission is the actual raw NASA strip.
And when I first, I intentionally didn't look until tonight.
I've got it on the screen right now.
When I first looked at just the strip itself, Richard, I said, I know that I shouldn't, but I said, oh, come on.
You know, the same old thing I always say.
But I admit, and I'm telling everybody out there, don't just do as I have done.
Don't just say that, because what's going to come as we go close up into this photograph, I think is going, in my opinion, substantiates the original picture of the face on Mars.
It looks just exactly like the original picture with more detail.
But there's no still, in my mind, I'm getting way ahead of myself.
But, you know, the bottom line of this, Richard, it seems to me, is that the new picture's just like the old picture.
All right, when we get down to the blow-ups and you get down to the actual face on Mars, folks, what I'm saying to you tonight is that to me it looks like the same face.
It really does this time.
It looks like the same face.
And it's because, I guess, of the angle and the lighting being fairly similar, Richard?
The Viking lighting was taken at about four in the afternoon.
There's a difference between fall and summer, but basically the lighting is very similar, and obviously a work of art is meant to be viewed under consistent lighting.
I have said from day one when DiPietro Molinar got me into this kicking and screaming, because remember, I was not a believer in the beginning.
I was skeptical.
And I proceeded, and I've written this whole elaborate story of the last 20 years of my pursuit of the truth on this in the Monuments of Mars, A City on the Edge of Forever, which, by the way, is now in its fifth and final edition, the 2001 edition, which has now come out.
And we are getting some very nice reviews.
I've added a lot of new material.
You know, not this image, because obviously this came in after we put the book to bed, but we have the previous image from Dr. Malin, the high-resolution image that you and I had such wonderful times discussing several months ago.
And as I've looked at this over the years, the question that I always had was, well, if it was just a face, it could be the trick of light and shadow.
It could be the things we see in the clouds.
It could be the projection of human psychology.
So what I started looking for, and I say so in the book and I've said it consistently for 20 years, was a context.
Because if this was done, if this was the work of intelligent beings of any stripe, any ilk, any species, there had to be a logic and a rationale for doing it.
And the only logic and rationale that we have to go from is our experience here on Earth.
So I was looking at anthropological and archaeological resemblances and models here in our own terrestrial database.
And of course, you go to Egypt immediately to look at faces and pyramids.
That we had found on a wall evidence of how he did this.
And what I found, in fact, I think we have a picture somewhere on the Enterprise Mission website, and it was Robin who actually saw it above his stone bathtub that he had carved out of the coral.
There was a story in one of the booklets they give out that when he was moving it from one site to another, which is a very important point, because the geometry and the location on the terrestrial grid is important.
My feeling is that he miscalculated where he originally was supposed to put it, and he had to pick the whole damn thing up, which is hundreds of tons of stone by himself and move it.
Now, what he did is he actually hired a big rig, one of these big flatbeds, and the workmen would drive the stones from the old site a few miles away to the new site.
But he wouldn't let them see how he moved the stones.
And there's a story that one day they all went to lunch, and he was there by himself, and one guy had forgotten his lunch pail back at the old work site.
So he came back in his flipper, because this was back in the 30s or 20s or whatever.
So, a connection between Giza, the pyramids, the Sphinx, Mars, and the photographs we've just got.
We'll verify that for you as the evening goes on.
I've got kind of a curveball I want to serve up to Richard very quickly when we get back regarding some other Odyssey data.
See what he has to say about that.
It is fascinating.
Don't touch that dial.
Well, if you're like me, you can't wait, and you've zoomed down Richard's page to see the new picture, the new face, and then he's got a comparison between the old face and the new face.
And, you know, I must say, as I told you when I told you the one photograph they took, the awful one, to me, it was a cat box.
We're back to its being a face, in my opinion.
We're back to its being a face.
Now, that would seem to generate an astounding amount of pressure for a trip to Mars.
But here's a Knight Ritter Tribune article I've got that I'm going to read and then get Richard's comment on.
Knight Ritter Tribune, Houston.
NASA's latest mission to Mars has confirmed that astronauts won't be visiting there anytime soon.
Even Val Kilmer couldn't survive the deadly radiation that he would encounter on the way to the Red Planet.
Last week, scientists announced new measurements of the radiation hazard taken by the robotic Mars Odyssey spacecraft on the way to Mars.
A person would be blasted with more than twice the radiation experienced by astronauts in the relatively protected environment of Earth's orbit.
This is bad news, the article says.
This is a real problem for getting humans out there, said Tim Claghorn, a radiation expert at NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston last week at a gathering of planetary scientists.
Now, the person who said this to me adds, I spoke with a very close associate in manned spaceflight at JSC today, and he says this story is a total fabrication by the boys at JPL and in the space robotics program.
He says no prior probes sent to Mars indicated this radiation hazard.
He thinks it's being done to shoot down the growing push for a manned flight to Mars.
The astronauts who are up there right now on the space station, who are spending like between three and five months, and then they come home, they receive about what you get by going into a doctor's office and getting an x-ray.
So then if you were to get twice that, which is what has two-rays.
So why then would Tim Cleghorn, a radiation expert at NASA Space Johnson Space Center in Houston, say this as though it kills the idea of a manned mission to Mars?
I mean, look, we know JPL doesn't play fair, and we know that they have been extraordinarily unhappy with the idea of going to Mars with anything that could give us the truth about what's there.
So when this story came out, this is not a new story.
This is maybe a month or two old.
There were a lot of people in the space business who were extremely skeptical of both the writer.
Skeptical of the writer as well as those people that she interviewed.
And when you look at the actual numbers, I mean, radiation in space has been uppermost in a lot of people's minds for a very long time since the Apollo missions.
And the space station, you know, when they talk about factors of two, you've got to have a baseline.
You've got to know what your original number is.
And the original number is about equivalent to one x-ray.
You get more radiation art, you know, if you're a, let's say, a Concorde pilot.
Well, we have discussed on the show innumerable times the fact that it's not a level playing field, that there is weird politics around Mars and what's there.
And there are factions.
You know, we've even called them, after Chris Carter, the roosters and the owls.
You know, the owls in NASA want to basically keep the lid on and not get people excited or interested or intrigued.
And the roosters basically want to leak stuff and give people enough information that they will mount a serious public demand on the Congress to demand that we go to Mars and find out what's there.
Now, what's really interesting, and I was going to do this a little later on, but since we're jumping the gun tonight, why not?
What was very intriguing to me about the release of this latest image, this Odyssey visible light strip, was the timing.
First of all, it was done on a Friday.
Remember that I called you a few weeks ago and I told you that our Bush sources had told us and a news conference.
And they've been releasing the most nondescript, you know, ordinary, mundane, you know, more Martian sand and craters and windblown dust kind of images until last Friday.
Sean O'Keefe, who's the new NASA head, the replacement for Dan Golden, was in Syracuse, New York at the Maxwell School, where he's a graduate in public administration, giving an address to a whole bunch of other public administrators and basically the world on, and here is the subject, pioneering the future.
And one of the two things, one of the three things that he talked about in that speech, which I taped, because it was very important, basically telling us where the Bush administration is on this whole question of where's NASA going and are we going to go along with them.
He said that this is NASA's new vision for the future.
I'm quoting from his speech now, which is on the NASA website, to improve life here, which is all the spin-offs and all the biological stuff the space station is going to do and all that.
To extend life to there, meaning manned missions to other places in the solar system, and to find life beyond.
And he said, this is the roadmap our people will follow into this new millennium.
These are exciting times.
We are on the threshold of discovery, and we hope to take you on that journey into the future.
We will pioneer the future, he said.
And as Lincoln tasked us, we will, quote, disdain the beaten path and seek regions hitherto unexplored.
Well, Sean O'Keefe has a background very similar, as I've said on this show before, to James Webb, who was the kick-ass public administrator who Kennedy picked to basically spearhead his mission to the moon, Proudhon's Apollo.
And Sean O'Keefe is talking an awful lot like James Webb.
For instance, here's another quote from the speech, which is really an important speech.
And it was simultaneous with the release of this famous image of Sidonia.
Do not discount those, quote, coincidences, because, as Franklin Delano Roosevelt used to say, in politics, there are no coincidences.
That's why we are launching an initiative to explore the use of nuclear propulsion.
One of the major obstacles of deep space travel, O'Keefe said, is finding fast and efficient ways to get around, to get to anywhere.
Today's spacecraft travel at speeds only slightly faster than John Glenn's Friendship 7 did 40 years ago.
NASA has explored the use of solar sails and ion engines as alternatives to dimensional fuels, but their uses are limited and restrict us to very close-in objectives.
He says the U.S. Navy has been operating nuclear-powered vessels since 1955.
In that time, the Navy has sailed more than 120 million miles without incident and has safely operated these efficient power generators for more than 5,000 reactor years.
And throughout that time, the Navy has designed more compact, safer, and more efficient reactors which last the 40-year life of the vessels without refueling.
But if you're talking men and women, if you're talking a manned expedition to set down at Sidonia and once and for all put spades in the ground, turn over the Earth and find out what's there, you need nuclear propulsion as a foundation.
And the same day the administrator said this, they released this new provocative engineer.
Can you tell me in layman's language how a nuclear engine in space would work?
In other words, I know how it works for a ship, and we covered that or a submarine, for example, but by what means do you convert and use energy in a nuclear space engine?
And because you've got all that power to spare, you can have lots of ion engines.
You cluster them just like Von Braun clustered the five engines of the Saturn V. Right.
And you basically then refuel in orbit using things like shuttles and expendables to take up the fuel, which can be mercury, it can be cesium, it can be a number of exotic metals.
And you use the electricity to ionize the metals, shoot them out the back end of the ion engine at 100,000 miles per second, close to the speed of light in some cases.
And that little push drives you in the other direction as a rocket.
unidentified
The difference is it keeps pushing and pushing and pushing.
So instead of coasting between planets, you're under constant acceleration, even if it's only a tenth or a hundredth of a G, over several weeks that mounts up to incredible speeds.
There was a nuclear propulsion program, as I said on an earlier show, in NASA 40 years ago.
And it actually produced some very interesting technology.
And they used to demonstrate it, test it, not far from where you live at a place called Jackass Flats, the Nevada test site, out there a few miles from you.
The reaction pushes the vehicle attached to the engine forward, and you get where you want to go.
And in the case of nuclear power, they would substitute the chemical reaction with a nuclear reactor.
In other words, you have basically a reactor where you flow a fluid through it.
And the reactor provides the heat.
Not a chemical reaction, but the basic nuclear reaction itself makes the reactor hot several thousand degrees.
And they flow hydrogen through it, which is the lightest gas, and thereby gives you the highest exhaust velocity.
And these were the engines that were tested at Jackass Platz in the so-called NERVA N-E-R-V-A programming in the 1960s.
And they worked.
And they had problems, and they would spew reactor parts into the sky in the initial ones.
And they eventually, with companies like Westinghouse and DuPont and GE, you know, all the high-tech firms back then, they were able to solve all the problems, and they were on the verge of an actual flight test.
They release information like these photographs that, again, take us back to the fact that we've got a face here, and a lot more than a phase, I might add.
Pyramids, all the kinds of things that you see at Giza in Egypt.
I just got two pieces of breaking news that I'm not all that pleased with.
Well, one's all right.
This one, though, I'm not.
Under the category of deja vu, here we go again.
And what have we done to deserve this?
Let me read you the forecast for southern Nye County, which is where I live.
You know what we just went through yesterday, right?
This just popped up.
South winds have increased across southern Nye County and will continue through the day Wednesday as of 11.45 p.m.
That was a little while ago.
The Desert Dock Airport near Mercury, that's the test site, folks, have recorded wind gusts of 55 miles per hour.
Now they're saying strong winds have been localized so far, but will become more widespread toward daybreak.
Sustained winds of 25 to 35 miles an hour should be expected with gusts now they're saying to 55 miles an hour.
This will produce areas of Reduced visibility and blowing dust and sand, and they're not kidding.
So here we go again.
If you're in the southern Nevada area based on what I just read, you damn well better buckle down and buckle in and get all the missiles that are lying around as far away as you can.
That's the one danger we've got here now.
We had so much damage yesterday in the winds, or now the day before, that there's a lot of loose material out there.
And if we get 55 mile an hour winds today or worse, those are going to become missiles.
And then there is this for all of you.
Aurora warning.
A full halo coronal mass ejection billowed away from the sun.
The expanding cloud is, in fact, headed toward Earth and could ignite northern lights, most likely at high latitudes, but very possibly mid-latitudes as well.
That might be us, when it sweeps past our planet on April 17th or 18th.
It's Arthur Clark's mission, my dear friend Arthur, that I've known since the mid-60s.
And NASA named this mission, you know, it was a nameless mission.
It just had a number, and they decided a few years ago they were going to call this mission launched last year, 2001, the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission.
And Arthur has been hinting in all different venues in all different ways for the last couple of years that this mission, when it got to Mars, was going to find and confirm some really neat stuff.
He's been talking about bushes and trees and artifacts.
And, you know, he's done everything but basically say, you know, it's there.
What he did say in his email to the Lockheed Martin people who actually built this spacecraft the day it was launched is he sent this email and he said, basically, I won't believe in artifacts until I can read the license plates.
Go find them.
Now, you know, my take, having known Arthur for all these years, is that he's part of the in crowd and he knows what's there.
You know, he gave this very interesting review of my book, The Monuments of Mars, many years ago in a book of his called The Snows of Olympus.
And it was kind of, you know, cute and tongue-in-cheek and all that.
But the bottom line is he has been incredibly robust in the last couple of years on the idea that Mars is teeming with life.
And the day that they inserted the spacecraft into orbit, he sent me an email which he copied, not on the blind, but in public, to a whole bunch of other NASA people.
I'm sure that made their day.
Where he said basically that he found a whole bunch of images from Dr. Malin's site, and he gave all the numbers.
And he talked about something leaving a trail through the jungle and something with tentacles and banyan trees.
And I mean, he has been incredibly aggressive on the concept that Odyssey, when it got there, was going to confirm the most extraordinary, different planet than what NASA's been telling us for the last 40 years.
That's what gets you interested, what's got me interested.
But what really convinced me, you know, and I have no qualm in saying that I am 99.999% certain that there were ancient Martians on Mars tonight, is the geometry and the mathematics of the site.
Remember, it was Sagan who said that intelligent life on Earth first manifests itself in the geometric regularity of its construction.
You know, it gets down to the math, and you've got to understand the math.
And when you understand the math, I understand the crystal clarity that comes to you.
But the average person in the audience, look, if you can figure a way to explain this to people so that they are actually going to understand it, have at it, Richard.
And you go in, every once in a while, if you're an author, you kind of quietly read the reviews and see what people are thinking because it's a very good poll.
Well, what's interesting is that more people who get it are writing reviews for Monuments of Mars than people who are enemies, people who are skeptics.
On that image, which was a very low angle, it was 45 degrees from the vertical, and it was taken under the most atrocious lighting, and JPL did something with filters that made it look absolutely flat.
There was this little weird thing below the mesa to the south of the face, which you can see if you scroll down in the middle of the strip where I have face and DNM and tetrahedral ruin.
And it is, if you draw a line between the apex of the pyramid and the midpoint between the eyes and the face, 19.5 degrees to that line is this tetrahedral ruin.
Now, what people need to know who have not heard me in a while is that if you put a tetrahedron in a sphere, the points will touch, three of them anyway, at 19.5 degrees above or below the equator of a spinning sphere.
So what we have here is a mathematical redundancy that Sagan, if he was still with us, would have, if he really got into the nitty-gritty before he had died, he was beginning to get intrigued with Sidonia.
In his last book, he said we should take new pictures.
If he'd stuck around for the endgame, he would have been part of this discussion on, I believe, our side because he was an honest broker when it came to remarkable data.
It's about a mile and a half on the long side, a mile on the short side.
I call it DNM after DuPietro and Molinar back in 87 when I was writing monuments and doing the first investigations because they actually were the two Goddard imaging guys that found it back in 1979.
The geomorphologist at Defense Mapping, who came to me in the late 80s and said, Hoagland, this damn thing should not exist.
Under any geomorphological analyses I can perform, there's no way that a five-sided figure like this can exist in nature because if it was sculpted by the winds, if the wind was blowing in one direction art, it would remove the other sides.
On the right of this image, and the title of this is TNM Internal Geometry and Featured Tale, I basically annotated the new Odyssey image, showing all kinds of neat things we can see on it.
And then if you scroll a little further down, you can see now some 3D work by Dr. Mark Carlato from the original Viking data.
Companion with a Viking image on the right, the Odyssey image on the left, another 3D shot from Carlato below that, and below that now a super enlargement and enhancement of the so-called buttresses, which are these protuberances that are on the corners of this pyramid.
One of the guys looking at the new image, a guy named Robert Harrison at a site called SidoniaQuest, sent us an email over the weekend saying, you know, if you look at this in another way, the geometry is turned to the south as opposed to the north.
And I looked and I looked and I thought, well, he's looking at something.
So then, if you scroll further down, you'll see a GIF animation series we put together called the DNM from a new perspective.
And all we've done is to take the normal view and rotated it by, I think it was 28 degrees from the way the shot was taken on the surface of the planet.
And what I've done is we've overlaid three views, just an ordinary view, a view with a line down the center, and then a flipped version where I've outlined basically in white the edges of the perimeter of the original pyramid that we saw in the Viking data, and then the new additional material that we now see at the new sun angle taken by the Odyssey camera.
Because the Odyssey image is not the same sunlight perspective as the old Viking data.
And as you all know, if you ever fly over terrain to look down, as the sunlight changes, the ground changes because you're seeing different relief at different angles.
So what we're seeing here is this incredibly symmetrical object, which has this five-sided symmetry.
Scroll down a little further now.
And you'll see on the left, I've got the original five-sided geometry with the buttress there in the shadow.
And I've got Carlado's 3D reconstruction from Viking, which is this shape-from-shading technique, which is used by the military.
It's used by NASA.
It's state-of-the-art.
And Carlato has graciously been applying this to this data under our aegis back in the mid-80s, you know, for the last almost 20 years.
And what we see on the left is the original geometry tilted, because I rotated this 28 degrees.
On the right, what I've done now is to superimpose with red lines the new geometry that the new lighting has demonstrated together with the old geometry, which is in blue.
The new platform, if you look at the angles there, one of the new angles with the buttress is 19.5 degrees in the internal angles of the new object that we're seeing in a new light, old object in a new light.
The point of all this being that the only way to resolve the issue from Earth of whether there was an ancient civilization on Mars is not what it looks like, but what the numbers tell us.
And the numbers tell us over and over and over again in all kinds of ways all over this complex that I and my colleagues have been studying for the last 20 years that the tetrahedral geometry is the message of Sidonia.
It's the means of determining that it's real.
It's the means of proving it to skeptics who are willing to put their preconceptions aside and look at the numbers.
And it's the means of luring us back to find out who was there, what they were doing there, and how long they were there and why they aren't there now.
And I think the average person, even ignoring the numbers, will look at the geometry and the face and they'll say, well, I guess we ought to go to Mars.
That's what the average person, I think, is going to say.
Because I say it.
We'll be right back.
This is coast to coast AM.
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This is Coast to Coast AM with our bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
Listen here, now, I want to warn the people in my local area again, southern Nevada, that we're in for it again today.
They just revised the weather forecast.
Now they're talking about 55-mile per hour winds.
That's a revision that appeared about an hour ago.
That's serious stuff.
They say it's going to begin about now, really take off at dawn, and we're in for another hellish day.
Kind of like on Mars, actually.
It's a lot like Mars when it gets going.
It's all red.
You can't see anything.
And it's incredible.
I mean, it's just unbelievable.
Reminds me of what it.
Well, I've never been to Mars, so what do I know?
But from the stories I hear, it's probably like that.
All right, you know, again, I'm a talk show host.
I'm not a mathematician, and I don't absorb all that as easily as I'm sure the pure scientists do.
But as I look down over what Richard has presented carefully on his website tonight, I do say that there is an irresistible suggestion of artificiality here, period.
I mean, whether you're looking at the pyramids, the tetrahedrons, the phase on Mars itself, which we're about to discuss, any of it tonight with the new images suggests artificial origins.
How about that?
And so, you know, we've got a good reason to be going to Mars, I guess.
Well, I think you're not the only one that shares that view.
I think very quietly the Bush administration is building a public consensus and a technology, the nuclear initiative that O'Keefe is talking about, so we can do just that in a few years.
All right, if I imagine that this was a face, which I can easily do, and I can imagine erosion, which I can easily imagine on Mars, there is erosion, then to me, this looks like it was a face.
What's really interesting is that when you go to various websites, as I do from time to time, an awful lot of people are who have never been involved in this discussion.
They look at it and they say, oh my God, it's a lion.
This is telling us something incredibly profound.
Remember the night that I talked about a secret guy at JPL who was talking to one of my sources in California?
And I was having this dinner in this rather palatial place somewhere up in the Pasadena Hills.
And the conversation turned to, you know, he obviously was trying to impress me with what his sources were telling him inside NASA about why all this is secret and covered up and all that.
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And he says, you know, he says, it's because of the feel I have.
This guy, he looked like somebody had stuck a pin into a souffle.
He just kind of sank into himself because he thought he had this really neat scoop.
But what he, in fact, had done was to confirm what we have strongly suspected, which is one of the very important reasons for the cover-up by the owls, is what this duality, this double image, this hominid feline thing is trying to tell us about life on Mars and life on Earth and how we're involved.
And it's not going to be the way that a lot of people expect it to come out, and they're not going to be happy.
Now, a few months ago, Arthur Clark, back to Dear Arthur, did a satellite address to a university in Worcester, a Worcester Polytech, I think.
And it was some anniversary.
You know, he's doing a lot of these now because he can sit there in Sri Lanka in Paradise and be anywhere in the world by satellite.
It's really cool.
He was talking about a timeline, and this was reported on Space.com and Yahoo and AOL and CNN and all those places.
Arthur C. Clarke projects a timeline for the next 50 years.
And he had a projection, a prediction, for the year 2032, I believe.
Since they released this photograph on Friday, this last Friday, they're so sharp, they're so fascinating, they're so interesting that why are you not on CNN right now, or why have you not been on CNN since the release, or a Coppel show, or, you know, I don't know, whatever.
In other words, why hasn't the mainstream media since Friday gone, oh, gee, look, new photographs, these really Are very interesting.
Let's get Mr. Hoagland or somebody on and get the wild stuff.
I think it's because we can only hold one thought in our media at one time now, and everybody is focused on Sharon and Arafat and the possibility of World War III.
And this will percolate along, and at some point, you know, somebody will go, Bing, the light bulb will come off, and I'll get a couple of calls or some emails or whatever.
Remember, we're doing this big Hollywood extravaganza.
And I've got, you know, look, I promised on your show when I was on with Paul Davids, you know, a few months ago that we would do this in a transparent fashion, that we would lay out what goes on with movies and movie making.
Well, I would say these new photographs are going to the new Odyssey photographs are going to buttress the case for the movie, not to mention the Mars mission.
I mean, they're going to buttress the case for the movie, I believe.
Actually, Ted Hartley, who runs the company, and Tom Mount, who is the head of our project, are very happy with everything that's going on, and they're very pleased.
I will say one thing, that since we submitted this new draft, the budget has increased substantially.
They like it, and we want to really, really like it.
Anyway, I'll have more to report to people.
Now, the one thing that I can tell everybody that has remained exactly the same is that I am dead serious, and so is Tom, about including as many folks in this audience who want to be in this thing.
You ask me why CNN isn't calling me up and asking me to talk about this latest stuff.
It's because there isn't a big enough media splash yet.
The production of a feature film based on the reality of what we figured out on this that makes the big screen and is reviewed in variety and on the Today Show and all that is going to definitely drive this to number one in terms of media land.
And then all those media people who couldn't get arrested with day before yesterday will suddenly be asking me on talk shows to talk about how this movie was made and how long it was in production and where the research was done and who was involved and all that.
So that's one of the key reasons why we're doing this.
The other reason is it's going to be one hell of a lot of fun.
And what I want to do is include as many folks in this audience in that fun as we can legitimately get away with.
My old friend Gene Roddenberry, when he did his first Star Trek movie, which was with the support of the fans, he found a way to include a lot of Star Trek fans as extras in the film.
So all I'm doing is continuing the democratization process of Enterprise and this investigation.
And as I said on that show, the one criteria that we are kind of insisting on is that people who want to be in this know what we're talking about.
And that means they have read the monuments of Mars.
And here's where the offer comes, because there's a way tonight you can get that book for free.
All you do is you call the 800 number, I'm going to give you in a minute, and you ask to order the complete tape set of the things I've done at NASA, the UN, Ohio State.
There are several tapes that have chronicled this investigation as we proceeded through it over the last 20 years.
And as part of the package, Tim Crawford and the good folks there will throw in for free an autographed copy of the 2001 edition, 1,000 pages of the Monuments of Mars with brand new photographs, new text, new everything.
We have a number if you want to get in on this, because my writing hand, you know, when I do these, as you know, Art, it gets very, very tired right now.
My first NASA briefing at NASA Lewis, where Dan Golden was working on nuclear propulsion 30 years before he got tapped by Bush to be the head of NASA, and then he sat on everything for 10 years.
The politics of this art are as important as the science, if not more so.
Because unlike any other mystery, you know, with Egypt, for instance, you can get on an airplane, and Zahid, notwithstanding, you can go there and stand in the pyramids, go inside and find stuff, even if he doesn't want you to.
But with Mars, you've got a filter.
You have gatekeepers.
It's called NASA.
And unless you can get on their good side and get access to the good photographs and access to the good analyses, you're stopped before you even start in the middle of the morning.
Well, remember, the key prerequisite for a man or a person mission, you know, the 21st century, can't be chauvinist here, would be to go where the water is.
Well, Odyssey a few months ago, a couple of months ago, gave us this stunning confirmation that Mars is dripping.
There is water all over the damn planet, mostly around the South Pole where it's frozen and it's cold.
But as we predicted in not only the title paper we produced, but also in the fifth edition, I was actually going through my prologue to the fifth edition of Monuments, and I found out that I actually predicted in Monuments that Odyssey would find water on Mars in these two locations.
They would choose to go to where the water is instead of a base camp.
But, and here's the interesting but, if you have nuclear propulsion, you can go, mixing metaphors badly, loaded for bear, which means you can take tractors, you can take airplanes, you can take gliders.
In other words, you can explore like you would in the Antarctic with high technology because you've got the means to take enough mass to do it the right way.
So even if you don't land at Sidonia, you could get there by driving across the surface with GPS and other navigational tools, satellite tools put into orbit, high-tech navigation that's being used on the space station right now.
Now, what it would do, of course, would be, you know, we actually know what this looks like because Viking and Pathfinder were on the surface during dust storms.
And we know that even during the most severe storms during the Viking era, you didn't get the kind of blinding clouds that, you know, reduce visibility, as Ramona was saying, the other day to zero.
So with the right technology and the right high-tech nav-aids, like GPS or whatever from satellites you put in Mars orbit, dust storms would not be much of a deterrent to exploring or surviving in a base.
The key thing is to be able to live off the land, and that means you go where the water is.
Well, now we know that there's water all over the place, including not far from Sidonia, including not far from that incredible canyon, Vallas Marineras, including not far from the most incredible volcano in the solar system, Olympus Mons.
Somewhere where you would have access to those three regions, I would think, which would mean somewhere slightly north of the equator, probably on the edge of the Chrysea Basin, which is about a thousand-mile shot over to Sidonia, but maybe a few hundred miles to the canyon and a few miles to the volcano.
It is indeed, and we're about to open alliance for Richard C. Hoagland.
I know that many of you have many questions based on an awful lot of what we've talked about tonight.
So if you have something you would Like to ask Richard about Mars, about the new photographs, about getting to Mars, whether we're going to go, the politics of it all, whatever.
All right, I want to briefly warn everybody again in the southern Nevada area, the forecast for the day today is beginning to change, and there could be a very dangerous situation developing with regard to wind.
Like, that's just what we need, but they're talking about winds to 55 miles per hour now, and that could change yet again.
But that change occurred at about midnight.
So if you're in this area, please be warned.
We have what looks like another dangerous situation developing today.
If it does, of course, we'll be giving you local information on the affiliate here, KNYE FM 95.1.
I hope it doesn't get to that, but it certainly looks that way.
That's what the late forecasts are saying.
All right, once again, from the mountains of Edgeworld, that's where he is.
It is so relevant to the weather and the Larsen shelf and the melting of Mars and all of this that we published several years ago.
I think it was 98.
We put the paper up on the web, the hyperdimensional 101 paper.
And toward the end of that paper, if you want to go back and refresh your memory, you'll see I made a series of predictions based on the model that forecast these Earth changes that we're seeing right now.
And we should probably go through that because this idea of going to Mars to find out what's there is not just an academic question.
It's not, oh, wouldn't it be nice to know?
I believe it's vital to our survival as a people to know.
Because whoever the Martians were, whoever built all this stuff, they were not primitives a la the Egyptians.
They weren't Stone Age or Bronze Age equivalent.
They were high-tech.
I mean, you don't build a pyramid like that DNM thing.
But they were, you know, their technology, high-tech, I agree with you, but I think high-tech in the sense of the pyramids at Giza, high-tech in the sense of the coral castle, high-tech in a sense that we don't yet understand, or at least the majority of us.
So, I mean, the obvious question that folks out there are obviously thinking about, and somebody will probably ask me tonight, is if these guys were such hot, you know what, how come they died?
How come Mars is a desperate, desolated, you know, glacial hell right now as opposed to a garden planet like the Earth?
Well, there is this experiment, and I know whether I've discussed it, which De Palma did many, many, many years ago, which was he took a simple spinning disc, which was nothing but an old 33, 45, 78 record changer.
All right?
And he had it rotating at, I think, 33 and a third RPM.
Little thin aluminum disc.
I mean, you remember how flimsy those turntables were?
Well, if you look at Sidonia, you have these damn tetrahedrons all over the place, either implicit, like the one I showed you in the middle of the strip now.
When she spotted that double tetrahedron that he had carved in the coral on the side of the castle above that bathtub, that's when the light bulb went off.
And I said, well, of course, that's the only way he could have done it.
He employed the hyperdimensional technology that he got from somewhere that mimicked what the Egyptians did, that mimicked what folks before the Egyptians knew how to do.
And the show I want to do is how we use this physics and technology to prevent the weird and nasty things that are going to happen on this planet from happening again.
Yeah, well, you know, when we close the loop, Richard, it's going to bring on many changes, like they sang about in MASH, you know, suicide brings on many changes.
Well, Revelation will bring on many changes.
And I mean, that kind of revelation.
Listen, there's a lot of people that want to talk to you, Richard.
Well, this gets to the heart of who would do a mile-long sculpture on a Martian desert?
What's the purpose?
What's the point?
If the point is to memorialize our complicatedness, the involvement of the human species with others, in other words, I'm not rejecting at all the idea that there are a lot of people who see that image.
And again, remember, this thing is eroded when it was new, when it was pristine.
Anyway, it seems that they have ironically dusted off this albatross that was put out in the book Dark Moon vis-a-vis We Never Went to the Moon because the radiation is too intense beyond the Van Allen belt.
Yeah, well, it's relevant to what John was saying.
Carol Stoker, who was one of the old underground Martians that created the Mars Underground Mars conferences in Boulder, Colorado, many, many years ago, where I saw the DiPetro Molinar enhancements of the face of Mars for the first time.
I was on my way back from the first shuttle launch.
I was there at CNN when they launched the shuttle in 81.
And at this Mars Underground, Stoker and Chris McKay and a bunch of others, Penny Boston, Penelope Boston, they were these young grad students that basically didn't want the idea of going to Mars to die.
So they set up this kind of underground conference.
And it took off, and now they're in responsible positions in NASA.
Well, Carol, the other day, with a colleague whose name escapes me, NASA Ames, presented at the second astrobiology conference at Ames last week a paper, an analysis of the Pathfinder color imagery from 1997.
And the Pathfinder camera, like the FEMAS camera, had 15 different spectral bands, wide spectrum color, and an ability to detect certain pigments or certain materials provided you knew what you were looking for.
So they programmed a computer to look at the Pathfinder super mosaic in these various spectral bands looking for the telltale signature of chlorophyll.
So they found places in this image close to the lander, four of which were on the lander, two of which were on the Martian surface that look like the signature of chlorophyll.
The interesting thing is that as soon as Carol was going to publish this paper, or it was announced that she was going to present this at a post-recession at the conference, NASA put out a press release in Washington, NASA headquarters, basically raining all over their parade, saying that it wasn't what she was saying, and she didn't really mean it and all this.
So we can see in this little contra-temp the war between the owls and the roosters.
Carol is a rooster, and the guys who wrote the press release throwing cold water on it are representing the owls.
So you have this war between those that want us to go and those that don't want us to do anything.
Well, the Russians reported from ground-based studies evidence of chlorophyll.
I wrote in the new edition of Monuments that Odyssey could find chlorophyll if they would ever give us a damn color image.
And notice that we have no color images from Odyssey, and it's got a camera with exquisite color capability.
Why aren't we getting colored?
Because it's not time.
There is a fierce internal war.
I was told by my Bush sources that there is this war going on between JPL and Arizona State and Johnson and headquarters and Ames, and someone is trying to get everybody on the same page, and there are fierce internal turf battles over who's going to control the dialogue.
And so what we're seeing is little efforts here and there, like this Sidonia image from the FEMA's camera, the same afternoon that O'Keefe makes his big speech on pioneering the future, where NASA is going.
So we have to read between the lines.
Now, if we're right, if the roosters are the ones putting out this new data, so we can all look at it and basically come to the assessments that you have tonight, Art, that there's something there to go for, then the next data point in this political war is going to be an infrared image taken at night.
Because if we got an infrared image of the Sidonia region, these structures, these putative structures that we've spent so many years studying are going to stand out like a sore thumb.
I work in a magnetic resonance lab, and it's nice to hear a guest who explains how physicists and academicians fight so fiercely because either the money is so scarce or the money in the tenured offices are so few.
And my question is this.
Is it simpler and therefore easier for the United States to send a vehicle to Mars' surface, which then unleashes or launches the sort of unmanned plane the military used in Afghanistan to take a daytime photograph of Sidonia?
And I suppose there are two tracks, because I asked the scientific question, and beyond science, there are the internal politics of NASA.
Well, there's also the national security questions of the United States and the global situation.
This is not trivial information.
If you think that what's going on in the Middle East is big news between Arabs fighting Jews over who's really God, just bring Martians into the mix and stir well.
Howdy, it's an honor to speak with both of you, but I'd like to ask Mr. Hogland about the fort and if any more new pictures have been taken and what do they show about the honeycombs?
When we got the fort from Malin, remember this is a separate group.
This is Dr. Christensen and the Odyssey group at ASU as opposed to Malin Space Science Systems.
It didn't look like it did in the Viking.
And it didn't seem to have any kind of artificial features that leapt out at you.
On this image, it's much more interesting.
And the honeycomb is back.
If you look to the bottom of it, on the far left, below the main structures, and you go in and zoom in, and you have to save the image in the Photoshop or something, and zoom in, you will see a series of layered, tiered areas that look like stacked playing cards that have been rippled back.
The images, the latest images we have, seem to take us back not forward to OG even more of a cat box, but they take us back to the original concept, which is pretty interesting since they're higher res.
Look, O'Keefe reiterated it again today at a press conference at 8.30 this morning in Houston when he was introducing the new teacher in space, Barbara Morgan.
They're going to reinstate the whole idea of the Kristen McAuliffe Memorial.
And then Barbara, who was her backup, she's now a full-fledged astronaut.
She's going to be astronauts and go through the whole training.
But, you know, O'Keefe appears to me to be leading NASA under Bush's direction or Cheney's or whoever's running the show back there in a new direction.
The only thing that's going to get us to go with men and women to Mars is an ancient civilization.
The lure of people, of intelligence, of heritage, of who the hell are we and what were we doing in that place?
And I think we're marching very quietly down that road, and the pieces are being assembled, and my job and those on Enterprise with NEARS is to show everyone how to connect the dots so we get there before they do.
Do you think that the privatization of space exploration might have a significant effect on how fast we get to Mars and whether or not we, as a race, will admit that there's anything there?
Not in the short term, unless there was a dramatic breakthrough in the form of private anti-gravity, some hyperdimensional technology that was put together with corporate money or private sponsorship or whatever, because it looks like NASA has chosen the nuclear route, which means they're not going to disclose these technologies like the thing that flew over ARC and Ramona that night many years ago.
They're going to go the nuclear route, but that represents an order of magnitude improvement in capabilities of going anywhere.
So I, frankly, am less concerned with how we get there than we get there because I know what's waiting for us at the end of the journey.
In between, you know, there's a large area right above the tetrahedral ruin.
Yes.
And I noticed on the global surveyor pictures especially that when you look at it from the west, it looks oddly symmetrical.
Not perfectly so, but when you look at each of the slopes of it, it looks like it maybe was symmetrical.
Also looks like it took a huge pounding from the right, almost a hole in it.
I don't know.
You can especially, again, see it from the global surveyor.
Anyway, I was just wondering if you had happened to notice that or had any comments on that?
There's a lot of things in the Sidonia region that we haven't had time to look at carefully and plot out mathematically, but I would not be surprised if that's another reshaped or former ruin or something of that nature.
I mean, this whole region is so interesting and is so exquisitely interconnected mathematically that I don't think we've mined maybe 10% of what's ultimately there.
It's just that people do what people do, and they look at these things, and their brains try to make something out of them, and you do.
I mean, in this case, you do, to really get to the depth that you've gotten and understand the mathematical relationships that prove artificiality in a good old scientific way, not just, oh, wow, look at that.
That's the important path to try and follow.
And we'll do a program on that, Richard.
I just, it's so hard for people to grasp the whole concept when you try and do it technically.
Well, we won't touch too heavily on the mathematics, but more on the implications of a physics that gives us the solar system and beyond and can do something about your weather.
I mean, if that was released into the public domain, our friend Eugene Maloff, notwithstanding, and the coal fusion and the energy crowd, you can imagine what would happen economically to oil futures and coal and things like that.
Richard, I'd like to know if there's any researchers who have published any papers, had any book deals recently, any new theories pertaining to Sedonia, anything that would strike a chord with the general public, in layman's terms, nothing too preachy or academic.
Well, we're doing this movie, which I think is going to strike a chord, and I'm working on the follow-on to monuments called The Heritage of Mars, Remembering Forever, which is going to have some juicy things I'm hoping it will be because we've got a lot of stuff that it's now time to put out there to let people take pot shots at me over.
I must say, you must feel vindicated to some degree by these latest photographs, Even though they're not ultimately what you want, I know you want the IRs and they're coming.
But even with what we've received and seen tonight, Richard, you must feel somewhat vindicated.
Again, for those of you in the local southern Nevada area, we've had a revision of the forecast, and we're looking at the possibility of 55-mile-an-hour winds later on this morning and into the day.