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April 16, 2002 - Art Bell

02:48:24

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Hoagland - Face on Mars and Cydonia Region. Whitley Strieber - UFO Activity in Chile

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	Music.
	From the high desert in the great American southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon,
	wherever in the world you may be.
	All 24 time zones, we cover every single one of them.
	Actually, there's a time zone where it's like a half an hour or something.
	It's actually a half hour instead of the hour.
	Wouldn't you hate to live there?
	They probably have daylight savings time, too.
	Anyway, good morning, I'm Art Bell, and this, of course, is Coast to Coast AM.
	And I just noticed something before I did the show.
	Once I put on the headphones, you know, with my microphone.
	I always wear a headset with a microphone.
	It's the only way I operate.
	That leaves you hands free to sort of turn around and look around without going off mic.
	Because I move all around this room to computers and stuff.
	And I noticed that before the show actually started, I talked to myself.
	It just...
	You know, I'm giving time cues and stuff like that, and I'm sitting here doing it into the mic and realizing, not really realizing, but absolutely nobody is listening.
	Even talking about the music, you know?
	That's weird.
	Well, we had, as you know, a gigantic windstorm here in the Port Valley.
	I told you about it yesterday morning.
	It was devastating to parts of the valley.
	Parts of the valley looked like they'd been hit by a hurricane or a tornado.
	You know, houses turned upside down.
	Oh, my God.
	I took a bunch of photographs, but in view of the fact that it's private residences here, I'm not going to put them up.
	The devastation here is awful.
	Now, look at this.
	What is God trying to tell us anyway?
	Tonight, I'm going to read you a forecast for our area.
	Tonight, mostly clear and breezy.
	That's what they call it in the desert when it's not real windy.
	Those near 43 south wind 15 to 25 miles an hour with local gusts to 35 miles an hour.
	But then tomorrow they actually use the word windy and with it they associate gusting to 45 miles per hour.
	So here it comes again.
	The man who wrote the book with me, my co-author, is Whitley Streber and let me tell you folks, There's something going on in South America that you don't know about.
	But in a minute, you're going to.
	Whitley's got the lowdown as much as one can have it at this hour, but there is action in South America.
	Now, also I want to drop in, Dr. Stephen Greer is going to be on tomorrow night.
	We've rescheduled him for tomorrow night.
	And then coming up in the second hour, Richard C. Hoagland.
	We've got the new Mars photographs of the face, as many of you know.
	And so, oh, we have so much to talk about with Richard.
	That's kind of, there's going to be a lot happening tonight.
	I suggest you stay right where you are.
	Proving, at times, that half a thunderclap is better than nothing.
	All right.
	Now, down to Texas, where they had some tornadoes today.
	I was looking at that on the weather map.
	Weather.
	Oh, my God, the weather.
	But that's not the reason he's here tonight, although I would say we probably ought to spend a few minutes going, we told you so, or something like that.
	Here is author of one of my favorite books of all time, No, not Communion.
	It was great.
	I loved that, and I know it's a big book, but War Day.
	War Day.
	God, I loved War Day.
	Woodley, welcome to the program.
	It's good to be back, Art.
	I might add, host of Dreamland, which airs Saturday evenings.
	That's right, and we're going to have Zechariah's Kitchen this weekend.
	All right.
	All right.
	So that should be a lot of fun.
	It is.
	Yeah.
	All right, well, look.
	You called me up the other day, and you said, hey, Art, something's going on in South America.
	UFO.
	type something going on in South America now?
	Yeah, it's real interesting.
	What's happening?
	Well, in late March, there was a UFO Congress in the Cipres River National Reservoir in Rancagua, Chile.
	Now that's quite a mouthful, six-toe paws.
	I wouldn't have tried it.
	I'd have sat down and chilled.
	Well, no.
	I just wanted to say exactly where it was.
	It was in the mountainous area of Chile.
	Congratulations.
	Beautiful area, by the way.
	Sort of like the Rockies in a way.
	And the interesting thing is that Sixto, whom I know, is a very nice fellow.
	What's his name?
	Sixto Paz.
	P-A-Z.
	Okay.
	He predicted On national media in Chile about six months ago that this would happen.
	Now this sort of predicting has been done by UFO people for years and it's always wrong.
	Now that's really interesting.
	On what basis, pray tell, would anybody predict UFO activity?
	This is the interesting thing.
	There has been something going on In the Spanish-speaking world, very, very different than what's been happening here.
	Oh, how so?
	Well, for a while.
	I mean, since about 1988 or 1989.
	1988 or 89 and there have been much more close encounters and...
	So they're having flop after flop.
	How close are they?
	You know, I heard all the old stories, Whitley, about airplanes down in Mexico City colliding with UFOs and that kind of thing.
	And that leaked into the country and made fairly decent amount of news, at least in ufology.
	But what you're telling me is new.
	Well, yeah.
	I'll give you an example of the type of things that have been happening in the past few years down there.
	Absolutely unreported, of course, in the US media, because officially in this country we've decided this doesn't exist.
	That's right.
	So we don't even report our own, why report theirs, right?
	No.
	So this is the kind of thing that PAWS will report from time to time.
	Quote, we saw a ship that landed in front of our eyes with being standing about six and a half feet tall wearing shiny bodysuits.
	Oh my God!
	Now this was recent.
	We have it.
	Incidentally, it's the lead story on unknowncountry.com right now.
	It was the lead story a couple of days ago.
	We put it back up for your listeners tonight.
	Okay.
	So if they want to go to Unknown Country, they can see it.
	Now, what's interesting about this is that virtually the same time in Australia... But wait a minute.
	Stop.
	Let's roll back to this one.
	I mean, you said a craft landed I'd like more details.
	What kind of craft?
	That's all I have, because one of the problems I've had with this is that I can't get a hold of anyone involved in this conference who is in Chile, including the people I know from the States and Europe who went there.
	Everybody's still down there.
	And out of communication, I can't find them.
	Okay, but this is a serious close encounter of the third kind, right?
	Oh yeah, but there was another one in Australia at virtually the same time.
	Australia?
	Yeah, and I'll quote this.
	This is near Alice Springs.
	There's been quite an extraordinary wave of UFOs near Alice Springs in the past month, and this is what's so interesting about this.
	One of the investigators says, quote, the witness told me she saw a triangular shaped craft and then three silvery beings came out of it and walked toward her.
	Silvery beings again?
	Again, exactly.
	That's what's so interesting and of course the people in Chile have no idea what was going on in Australia because they're out of contact with each other.
	But the thing in Chile that's so extraordinary is On the 29th of March, they saw some very large UFOs in the area where the conference would be held.
	And this is not unusual, by the way.
	There have been extensive UFO sightings at UFO conferences.
	I've actually witnessed some of this myself.
	Actually, you know, that's even occurred here, down in Laughlin, places like that.
	That's right.
	A couple of years ago in Laughlin, at a big UFO conference, there were just incredible UFO sightings.
	Now, maybe, you know what?
	Maybe the aliens have given up on the United States and Canada.
	Maybe they've basically said, you know, we've tried.
	We've flown with our airliners.
	We've made landings.
	We've even had a couple of crashes.
	We're trying to be noticed, but not to disturb the population, but sort of get word out.
	And it's just not working there in the US.
	Let's work on South America and Australia now.
	Well, the thing is that they don't It doesn't really work where, basically, all you have to do to get rid of them is to send up jets.
	It's not hard at all.
	You have to shoot.
	You have to indicate that you don't want them here, and that's what our government does.
	It's at a very low level here, and I think, frankly, that if this ever solidifies and becomes a permanent state of contact, the countries that are involved in it We'll become the leaders of the world over the next few years.
	Those will be the important countries.
	Yeah, I'm with you there, but if what you're saying is true, then the greatest nation on earth would certainly know that, wouldn't they?
	And they wouldn't send the guys with the phasers and the new technology down to South America and Australia.
	Would we want those places to be the ruling technological centers of the world enslaving us?
	No, I don't think they would enslave us.
	I'm exaggerating.
	I'm exaggerating, Whitley.
	I hope so.
	I'm exaggerating.
	My whole point is, why would we, we wouldn't, it seems to me, Whitley, in essence, send them away by chasing them with a military aircraft or whatever.
	But we have, don't we?
	Into the arms.
	Why would we?
	Why?
	Because we didn't understand what they were, and our government was afraid.
	That's essentially why.
	You really think so?
	Yeah.
	The Peruvian government and Chilean governments both have programs dealing with this in a much different way.
	How so?
	Well, they're much more open about it.
	People in those countries, scientists in those countries, don't necessarily believe in UFOs.
	They're no different from scientists here, but it's a much more open-minded situation, and there's certainly no question of any kind of military action against them.
	In Australia, I don't really know what the situation is.
	I do know that the outback has, especially around Alice Springs... Now, that I've heard.
	Yeah, there's been a lot of UFOs.
	Let me go on about what was happening in Chile, because it's really quite extraordinary.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Whatever you know.
	Well, during the conference, 24 people disappeared physically.
	What?
	A large crowd.
	What?
	They went into another state.
	You mean physical?
	Physically, yes.
	Oh, my goodness.
	Whether this was videotaped or not, we don't know.
	We're saying it's pretty incredible, right?
	If it happened, yeah.
	That's my question.
	How reliable is your source?
	How well do you know this person?
	Well, I know these people who are reporting this pretty well.
	It's been reported in the Chilean and Peruvian press.
	Oh, really?
	Yeah, and we have translated it on our website.
	Basically, we translated the story.
	You've got the whole story on your website?
	Right.
	Oh, my.
	All right, all right.
	I don't have any reason to disbelieve this, except it's so incredible.
	It is incredible.
	Back to, you said, 24.
	24 people.
	I think they, I presume they came back.
	You mean it doesn't mention that part?
	I'm not clear on that, no.
	Geez, geez.
	Let me see.
	It's like seeing a person disintegrate in front of your eyes, as one of the eyewitnesses said.
	Just like Star Trek Transporter.
	Well, apparently, yeah.
	Now, what's interesting is I want to talk to some of the people this happened to, and I think I probably will be able to do that.
	I know some UFO investigators who were there.
	I'll tell you what I'd be working on, Willie, and if you're not going to do it on Dreamland, then bring them on, and I'll do it.
	In other words, get a translator on one line, and get me an actual participant on the other line, and let's rock.
	Well, let's do it.
	I mean, I'm going to get, as soon as I get a hold of Sixto, as soon as he comes down out of wherever he went, we'll find out more.
	This is sort of a heads up.
	So then your source, are you telling me your source is one of those who... I don't know who.
	I don't know who went and who didn't.
	And nobody's told me that.
	So we're waiting to find out and to find out if these people, what they experienced and Well, here, folks, is news you can't even get on the BBC.
	Not yet.
	What date did this occur?
	Do you know?
	This occurred in the first week of April.
	First week of April?
	Week before last.
	This is such an amazing story that it appeared in the press there.
	You would think, wouldn't you, as incredible as this is, that at least some tabloid or something here would pick that up.
	Well, I know, but the thing is, you'll find that stories that appear in the non-English language press do not arrive in the United States very quickly.
	That's a very good point.
	But, you know, we're reading these and one of the great things about A system, a news gathering system like we have on our website is that there's volunteers all over the world speaking every language in every newspaper.
	So stuff like this happens, we're going to hear about it.
	And again, Whitley, if we're saying that, you know, if we're not even reporting our own UFOs nationally in the major media, then why would we report theirs?
	We certainly wouldn't report this because it's too unusual.
	American press would assume that this was nonsense.
	And you know, we're going to be blindsided by this, I think.
	I believe that the United States has really just lost its edge in this area.
	How do you imagine that might have happened?
	I mean, what I said a little while ago really still is, you know, I mean, if there was technology gain to be made, I just can't believe the United States would, in essence, drive them off.
	Just because they're scared of them, they don't understand them?
	Well, if you read, I believe, the National Space Act of 1953, NASA, for example, cannot release any information about essentially unknowns in outer space until it's cleared by the military.
	The military is never going to clear it.
	I was going to just say that.
	If they don't know whether or not it represents a threat.
	Therefore, the bureaucracy has been frozen.
	But you know, back in 86 and 87 and 88, when I was just fresh out of my communion experience, I was being asked questions by many people in the intelligence community and in the United States government in various areas.
	They knew nothing.
	Except they all did come to me with the same assumption, and that is that it was real.
	At the same time, the press in this country, and in most of the Western world, has a kind of institutionalized, knee-jerk reaction of laughter.
	And it's nervous laughter, is what it is.
	They're scared.
	They're all scared.
	But apparently in the culture of Latin America, in the Spanish-speaking world, people are just more open and more willing to take a look at it.
	And maybe that's true of the Australians too, I don't know.
	But in any case, it's a real interesting case.
	And the fact that we're seeing reports coming in from Australia and from Chile at the same Suggests that maybe there is something in it.
	Okay, well then, is it logical to think that at an event of that sort, there would be any number of people who would have video cameras running, if not an absolute dedicated camera to document the whole thing, and I'm referring to the meeting itself, right?
	It is extremely logical, and if that didn't happen, then I'm going to be very suspicious.
	Quite frankly.
	Well, if I get A video of a ship, and let me see, silver men, and 24 people disappearing, or even two out of the three, I think, Witt, that would do the trick for me.
	Well, if I think that this is, if there's really something huge here, I'm going to jump on a plane down to Santiago.
	Are you?
	Oh, sure, because I'm not going to miss this.
	Oh, lucky you, I'd love to do that, but here I am every night, so I would have to I'll have you on the air from Santiago.
	If I do that, yeah.
	But it remains to be seen.
	I'm not going to go all the way down there.
	For nothing.
	We'll be right back.
	This is basically my philosophy of life.
	That's what she's singing about.
	My philosophy of life.
	If something gets in your way, go around it.
	Don't let life get me down.
	Gonna take it the way that I found it.
	I got music in me.
	Yeah.
	I got music in me.
	Be it sight, sound, smell, or touch, there's something inside that we need so much.
	The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sound, or the strength of an arc when it moves deep in the ground.
	The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
	Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
	To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing.
	To have all these things in our memories.
	All of them.
	And to use them to count us.
	to follow.
	I'm going to be a hero.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
	And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	To rechart on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nye.
	It is exactly that.
	Good morning, everybody.
	At the top of the hour, Richard C. Hopewin, New Pictures of Cydonia.
	In very important New Pictures of Cydonia, I intentionally have not looked.
	I want to see them same time you do tonight as we engage Richard C. Hogan.
	That's top of the hour right now with an incredible story.
	We've got Whitley Streber and, boy, I've got a couple more questions.
	Remarkable things going on, for example, in Ecuador.
	You know, if that kind of thing really was going on, I, too, would get on an airplane, no doubt about it.
	All right, my webmaster, Keith Rowland, is on the road right now, so he didn't get a link up to Whitley's website, but if you want to see the translated story he's talking about, go to his website.
	It's unknowncountry.com.
	Unknowncountry.com, right, Whit?
	Yep, that's right, Art.
	All right, listen.
	In 1947, we do have a fairly credible story in the world of ufology, and then I interviewed Colonel Corso any number of times before his passing, as you know.
	And he documents incredibly well a technological transfer that he made of that crashed stuff, you know, that led to all kinds of modern inventions that we have now, it is claimed.
	Now, so that would mean that we would know That there would be tremendous technological gain from something like this and it's hard for me to believe we'd turn our backs on that.
	Well I think though that it might be that the spiritual gains and gains in consciousness would be even greater and perhaps there's a lot of... We might turn our backs on that.
	Oh yeah, I think that there would be a lot of ideological reason to Try to keep the American people away from that.
	Well, what makes us think that Catholics are going to take it so well?
	Well, they do.
	They seem to have a pretty good handle on it.
	Monsignor Balducci, who I know that your listeners know about... Yes, tell them.
	Not everybody knows.
	Tell them who he is.
	Okay, well, Monsignor Balducci is a cleric.
	He is retired now.
	He's worked in the Vatican.
	And he has given interviews stating frankly that he thinks there is something in the UFO business.
	Yeah, well we know the Vatican's got a lot of telescopes that they drive right through to look up into space for some reason, huh?
	Yes, and I had dinner with Monsignor Balducci at his home in the Vatican with Michael Hesselman, the German UFO reporter, a couple of years ago.
	And it had a long conversation about this, and the degree to which the Pope knew about it, and he wasn't willing to say that.
	But he was certainly... What did he say?
	He said that he felt that there was a place for the Church in this, because this was primarily going to be a spiritual matter.
	That was his thought.
	Would you read between the lines here, Whitley, that the Pope does know?
	I would read between the lines that the Pope is aware of it.
	That was my impression, certainly.
	But nothing like that was ever said directly.
	When I asked direct questions about it, I wasn't told no.
	In other words, when I asked the question... Did you get a typical American no comment?
	No.
	He was very Italian, and I got more wine.
	Well, Michael Fesserman was going to have a very early morning audience with the Pope the next morning, and Monsignor Balducci Partly to celebrate the evening and also partly to play a joke on Michael who loves good wines, kept bringing out these incredible ancient wines from his wine cellar and torturing him with them.
	He'd take a little sip of each one because he didn't want to be, you know, he wanted to be a perfect guy.
	I mean, did he see like one Pope or three Popes?
	Excuse me?
	Did he see like one Pope?
	Fine, but when Monsignor Balducci drove me and Anne back to our hotel, I realized that the three of us were not in such good shape.
	I began to see the Vatican and then the rest of Rome shooting around outside like we were aborting.
	Actually, yeah, driving in Rome, even cold, sober in a taxi is, you know.
	Well, with an Italian priest whose trust in God is absolutely total, and he's got three bottles of wine in him.
	Interesting!
	That's funny.
	Anyway, he was very highly placed then.
	I think we can assume that the Vatican would be aware.
	Oh, I think the Vatican is aware, and I think the Vatican is very comfortable with it.
	The Pope has said that if we ever We're to come into contact with people from other worlds that we should treat them in the same way that we treat human beings.
	Okay, but you know, if that's true and the Pope and the Catholic Church behind the scenes are comfortable with it and we're not, then what does that mean?
	It means we're going to be coming up from behind.
	But remember, inside the United States, despite the problems its government has had with this for 50 years, There are millions of people who are real comfortable with this and can deal with it very handily.
	I mean, I had trouble at first, but in the end I dealt with it, and learned from it, and lived with it, and was very comfortable with it.
	In the end, if it's really true what you say, that there's a gigantic spiritual aspect of this contact.
	There was in my life.
	Yeah, then I can understand that our government, more than our religious organizations, would freak out, and especially if our military essentially couldn't do anything about them, and they were powerless.
	Our military would never admit that, not in a trillion years, that they could violate our airspace at will and we'll do nothing.
	Nah, they'd never admit that.
	I think that basically our military has has signaled to them that we don't want them here, and they
	have respected that to an extent.
	And so, when they come here, it's very much by night and circumspect.
	Let me get back to this thing with this disappearance.
	There are a couple of things about it that are interesting to me.
	In particular, Camillo Valdevezo, one of the researchers who was reporting, talking about
	this in the newspaper, said this, quote, during the days before the contact took place, the
	people involved in the teleportation were suddenly aware of the existence of the interdimensional
	I've got to stop you again, in the teleportation, they used that word teleportation?
	That's the word he used, yes.
	Okay.
	And this is something that's really familiar to me from my own life.
	This sudden awareness where a whole plan of a contact experience will come into your head and then you go and enact it a few days later and it happens.
	I've had that happen.
	Well, is that precognitive or causative?
	No, I think it's a way of communicating.
	I think they can communicate directly into your thoughts.
	I think it's very clear that they care.
	So you have had the same... I didn't go through an inter-dimensional gateway.
	I just went down and... No, I'm talking about a pre-cognitive... Oh, yeah.
	Absolutely.
	And I'm using that loosely in view of what you're saying.
	Right down to the places I was supposed to go, what I was supposed to do, and everything.
	And I did it.
	It happened.
	So I can see where that... See, that adds the ring of authenticity to me.
	Because it's not something that you just dream up.
	It's not a form of communication that people think about.
	Alright, it's hard for me to believe, and I'm just playing the devil's advocate here, but whatever Spanish language publications there wrote this story, how could they write the story and not say whether the 24 came back or not?
	I mean, that's such a big detail.
	Isn't it cute?
	I kept reading and rereading this, and I got a translator reading it, and I said, are we missing something?
	And he said, no, we're not missing something.
	This is just not, this is the whole story.
	I think it's assumed that they came back.
	Because if they had just disappeared, that would be another and much bigger story.
	Much bigger story, yes, I certainly agree.
	So I guess you're right.
	We have to presume they came back.
	Totally incredible.
	Well, so how do you proceed now, and when do you say, okay, enough, I'm on a plane, I'm out of here?
	When I get in touch with Sixto, Sixto Paz, the Chilean, the Peruvian investigator who was at the center of the whole business, then I'll talk to him and find out.
	As soon as I get him.
	As soon as I find him.
	Uh, so you believe... I've got his number at home.
	He's not... There's nobody there.
	Yeah, you believe the conference, then, or people are either en route from or the conference is still going on, one of the two.
	Well, exactly.
	I've sent urgent emails to a number of other investigators who I believe to have been at the conference, and these are people who would have immediately called me or answered me, and they haven't yet.
	And it's been days, so they must still be there.
	Indeed.
	Alright, well that's an amazing story, Wynn.
	And the second you get anything more on it, don't let it wait for Saturday, though.
	I know you'll cover whatever... No, no, don't worry.
	I won't leave you, Art.
	Find the weekly show.
	Yours is much more hot news oriented.
	Five nights a week, so if something really does break, you know to give me a call right away.
	Absolutely.
	Listen, I don't know whether we talked about it, I can't remember now, but I don't think we did since the Larsen B ice shelf broke off into a gazillion pieces.
	It just shattered, boom, like that.
	You know, we have a structure that's similar to what would happen before a superstorm scenario in the Midwest and East Coast right now.
	Because you're going to see a massive drop in temperatures in the Midwest in just the next couple of days.
	Possibly accompanied by extraordinary storms.
	We'll have to see if there's enough moisture in the air.
	I don't know.
	I hope not.
	I hope not, too.
	There were tornadoes down there in Texas today, as a matter of fact.
	South of here, south of where I am, which is very unusual.
	In the entire time I was growing up here, there was never a tornado south of Austin, which is 70 or 80 miles north of here.
	Now, they're all routinely around this area, right where I live.
	There's a gigantic shift underway.
	Yes.
	And by the way, I'm looking at a NOAA projection for tomorrow, and it shows either slight to moderate, sort of a corridor that runs from It looks like Wisconsin, northern Wisconsin, damn near to, well right up to the Canadian border and runs right down over you there, Whitley.
	Nope.
	So there's going to be some violent weather in the Midwest, there's no doubt about it.
	But the weather changes, Whitley.
	I don't know how you feel about it after, you know, writing a book.
	What I feel is it's happening much faster than we thought.
	Yeah, it would seem... It seemingly is.
	And all of the things that, you know, when we wrote that book, we said, we told people, honestly, that it's, you know, some of it you would have to consider science fiction, or, you know, a little bit of a stretch from exact facts that are known.
	But we said what was going to happen, and it's happening tick, tock, tick, tock.
	Only time has sped up, and it's happening faster than we thought, as you pointed out.
	But I mean right down the line, Whitley.
	You know, back in those days, just in 1999-98, the Argentinian glaciologists, who were probably the leading students of the Antarctic ice, were predicting the kind of breakups that happened just now, in 15 years.
	And that was four years ago, Art.
	When B broke off, they got a look at C, and I saw a quote from a scientist who said, you know, obviously when one breaks off you can see into the layers of the next one, and they said it doesn't look very stable.
	Right.
	And then, now, the next ice that breaks off of that area is Shelf ice.
	I mean, it's not shelf ice.
	It's sheet ice from the continent.
	Yeah, from the beginning of, I don't know if it would be Ross or not, but one of the big on-land masses.
	And that means, folks, it's not like ice cubes in the water anymore.
	It's like putting ten more ice cubes in the water.
	The other thing, yeah, it will raise sea levels.
	The other thing, though, That this ice breaking off in these massive quantities means is that there is a tremendous amount of fresh water down in the Antarctic and this means that this water is conducting heat to temperature very very differently than the salt water that was there.
	Right.
	And there are other scientists who are recording reduced flow In ocean currents in both the Atlantic and the Pacific now.
	Which is of course a big part of our scenario.
	The one in the Atlantic they reported has slowed by forty percent.
	Forty percent?
	That could lead to the superstorm scenario appearing sometime quite soon.
	We have on our website incidentally a thing called Quick Watch Which is on the left side of the website and you hit the home page on unknowncountry.com and that's updated every week and it's a sort of quick look at a number of different weather factors that are related to possible major climate changes.
	So you can sort of keep up with it there.
	Wendley, asking you straight out, would it be your view that there are serious attempts to control the climate, control the weather right now, that there are Well, if they are, they're failing.
	Depending on, of course, what their intent is and who's doing it.
	I wish there were, to be honest with you, because it would mean then we might have some ability to change this.
	But if there have been attempts, like with spraying of reflective particles into the upper atmosphere or heating the ionosphere via HAARP and things, it's failed because You're talking, it was 92 in New York today.
	Oh look, I know that obviously our government is well aware there are major changes going on right now.
	Meteorologists say it, everybody's saying it now.
	It's just a matter of where it's headed and what this really is.
	But I mean, the fact that we're underway with the change, haha, I think that one's, we're over the threshold on that one.
	It's changing and everybody knows it.
	So wouldn't you think At the very highest levels, that there would be meetings about, well, gee, what can we do?
	I wish I thought that.
	I don't think there's any such thing going on.
	I don't think at the highest levels there's even an awareness, even the slightest awareness.
	Oh, that's really comforting.
	Not the slightest.
	Yeah, that's really comforting.
	Great.
	I had no idea you felt that way.
	I mean, it would affect Economies, if it was nothing more serious than the Farm Belt moving out of the US and on up into Canada, that would be a major national event of unbelievable proportions.
	Yes, it certainly would.
	We are, again, in a situation where we're going to be blindsided, I think.
	It's possible in the UFO thing we will, too, because we're just not able to keep up with these changes.
	On an institutional level, we just can't do it.
	We don't have the imagination, we don't have the insight, we don't have the instruments to tell us.
	At the present time, in terms of environmental reporting, we are in the process of shutting down as much as we can in order that people will not know these changes are taking place.
	Well, it seems like a big secret to keep, but maybe it's one that you hide in plain sight.
	I mean, you talk to Alaskans, and they say, you know, yeah, tundra's melting.
	Right.
	Right?
	I have Alaskans all over the place.
	You do on your show, too.
	Ask them sometime.
	Tundra melting?
	Oh, yeah.
	Tundra's melting.
	So this is, maybe it's just sort of in front of your face secret that's not really a secret.
	You know, I don't know.
	I don't know.
	Maybe the government just assumes that the people assume the government can't do a damn thing about it anyway.
	It's the weather.
	It's not there anymore in their control than it is ours.
	But there are people who think this Tesla technology has been used.
	If we put our minds to it, we could completely turn this situation around insofar as we are responsible for it as human beings.
	But not entirely.
	Because it's also part of a big natural cycle.
	You're saying with some sort of spiritual... Well, no.
	I mean with technology and with science.
	We could turn it around.
	You think so?
	In ten years.
	Easily.
	And not only could we do that, the corporate world could make great profits doing it.
	I'll give you an example.
	Well, then they ought to do it.
	I mean, we're almost out of time.
	Okay.
	They won't do it.
	They won't do it?
	No.
	Why not?
	Money is money.
	Yes, but...
	Getting people to try something new is hard.
	DuPont has done it and had a great success with it.
	Oh, you're right.
	All right, listen, we are out of time.
	You and I need to sit down and do a whole show here pretty soon.
	I really appreciate the breaking news about South America.
	Thank you, brother.
	I'll keep you up.
	Okay, good.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	The minute you hear about that, 24 people, huh?
	My, my.
	All right, well, there are new pictures of the face on Mars in the Cydonia region.
	Who best to talk about them?
	He who comes next, Richard C. Hobo.
	He who comes next, Richard C. Hobo.
	Time, time, time, see what's become of me.
	Time, time, time, see what's become of me.
	me.
	While I looked around, all my possibilities, I was so hard to please.
	And the ground, and the ground, and the sky, is a hazy shade of winter.
	To reach Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nigh, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
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	line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
	Oh, listen, what's coming up?
	We've got Odyssey going around Mars, and it's just now taken new pictures of the Cydonia region, the face on Mars, the pyramids, the whole schmear, brand new photographs, and who better to talk about it than Richard C. Hoagland, one-time NASA advisor, advisor to Walter C. Cronkite, Angstrom Science Award winner.
	Richard C. Hoagland, who's been on this for as long as I've known him.
	Now, you don't know how I've just saved you all.
	He wasn't going to talk about the Odyssey pictures first.
	He was going to save them for last.
	And I said, Richard, it just can't happen.
	They'd hang us both.
	We need that Odyssey information.
	Up front.
	So, other than a couple little things we'll hit on, the Odyssey information is coming right up.
	Stay right there.
	Look around, he's my friend.
	There's a patch of snow on the ground.
	Look around, he's my friend.
	There's a patch of snow on the ground.
	Alright, alright, wait.
	From a new location, somewhere or another in the New Mexico area, here is Richard C. Hoagland.
	So, in other words, you've picked up everything you own, and you have yet once again moved to a new location, is that right?
	Yes, that is unfortunately correct.
	Actually, it's not unfortunately, it's very fortunate.
	We are in wonderful, exquisite surroundings.
	I'm talking to you tonight, everybody, from my new office, high atop everything.
	I have a spectacular view.
	Where are you, Richard?
	Well, in a little place called Edgewood, which you know well.
	I sure do.
	It's east of Albuquerque.
	It's actually closer to Albuquerque than we were when we had to wind up the canyon to the Monsanto Mountains.
	It's about 20 minutes from here.
	I thought I wanted to live in Edgewood.
	I bought property there.
	Well, I'm probably looking at it out the window.
	I always called it Edgeworld.
	You know where Stone Mountain is?
	Yes.
	I have this incredible view of Stone Mountain.
	You're in a beautiful place.
	Which is about the same size and proportion, get this, I actually measured it the other day, as the face on Mars seen from the sea.
	Are you going out and mounting up little pyramids?
	Not really.
	Yes it is.
	My friends have a house up on Stone Mountain, but I was looking out the window the other day and I realized that in terms of an optical width, you know how big it appears on the horizon?
	Oh yes.
	It's about the same size as our friend at Cydonia seen from the One of the downsides to your move, I understand, was that you moved into an essentially a radio blackout zone.
	Oh my God.
	In other words, you're not, Edgewood is not far from Albuquerque.
	It's just across the mountains.
	And you have 770 with 50,000 watts.
	50,000 watts.
	But you must be at a very odd place.
	They have got their antenna in a hole in the ground bound by the Rio Grande.
	Yeah, but that's alright for AM.
	I can see a whole cluster of antennas up on the Sandias.
	In fact, I can count them.
	Yeah, but Richard, those are VHF-type antennas.
	VHF, yes.
	And you want to be high.
	For an AM station, you want to be low, and you want to be near the water, too, if you can be.
	Because of the ground plane and all that stuff.
	Exactly.
	I know all that.
	But anyway, you've got blackout.
	I move a few miles away, and this is what you sound like, okay?
	Listen.
	Okay.
	Wow.
	That's incredible.
	Isn't that delightful?
	That's incredible, actually, yeah.
	I wouldn't have believed that unless... You're telling me that was 770?
	That's 770.
	50 kW, and I can't get... I'm getting nothing but AC line noise.
	Oh yeah?
	Oh, you've got a lot of AC line noise there, huh?
	Well, you can hear the background.
	Anyway, so I placed a call to our favorite emergency person.
	Bob Secre?
	No, Alan Corbeth.
	Alan Corbeth, yes.
	And I said, All right, now, just so you know, Richard, I'm in Nevada, right?
	Yep.
	You can hear the background.
	Anyway, John, thank you.
	You hear all that?
	Yep.
	That's 770.
	Amazing.
	Yeah.
	Well, I can get other stations sometimes, you know, because of the skip.
	But, you know, KLB used to come in resoundingly, boomingly, and it was as good as when I used to have the satellite dish and go directly off the satellite.
	Okay, so in other words, you're in a horrible location.
	I'm in a horrible location, and I have some friends up on Stone Mountain who also can't get you.
	There is something about mountains.
	There's an electromagnetic change that occurs with mountains.
	I've noticed that traveling the country, Richard, using every manner of radio, that on the HF bands, which aren't very far from broadcast band, as you're going up a mountain, you inevitably experience a really sharp signal loss.
	And as some mountains, and I guess it depends on what they're made of and a lot of things, I believe so.
	We used to, you know, we were carting stuff back and forth because it's a few miles away from the other place.
	We could actually in the car radio not get you and then I could make eyes of contours of when you begin to kind of come in and then climb up the driveway in the old place.
	You'd come in beautifully, but nothing here.
	I mean, it was like I'd fallen off the edge of the planet.
	So as I said, I picked up the phone, I called out and I said, He says, what do you mean?
	I said, can you kind of talk to Bob Crane and tell him my predicament?
	Because how can I do art if I can't hear art?
	So he called Bob Crane, and Bob, bless his peepikin heart, sent me, by FedEx, this exquisite piece of technology.
	I mean, this is completely unsolicited, folks, but the CC Radio Plus, which is what he sent me, is the most incredible radio I have ever owned.
	I only say that every single night.
	You now boom in better than when it was almost line of sight to their 50,000 watt tower.
	Yeah, I know.
	That radio is awesome.
	It is awesome.
	They built it specifically for a low noise floor for incredible amounts of gain and rejection.
	You know, something that almost all modern radios ignore.
	That's what that radio is.
	Thanks for the plug.
	Well, I was suffering severe art withdrawal until Bob came to the rescue.
	And the last few nights I've heard, you know, I've been sitting here working on these new images and I've been listening to you, of course, because what else would I do at three o'clock in the morning?
	And it's just, it's like you're in the next room.
	It's astonishing how good this technology is.
	Just for anybody who's wondering what to do about a good radio, tell them that, you know, Hoagland says, get the damn seats.
	Well, you know, I preach it.
	You know, we're really on the same page here.
	I mean, I know all of it's true.
	Now, listen.
	We've got new images of Mars, and here's what everybody's going to have to do.
	Go to my website, Richard C. Oglen's name.
	Go to the Enterprise Mission link right there, because you're going to be able to follow along with us.
	Actually, we have the direct link to the article at the top of the guest page.
	To the article.
	OK, but... From dinner with his laptop, he was able to get the link up.
	Directly to DoGeologist's Dream of Windblown Sheep.
	DoGeologist's Dream of Windblown Sheep.
	Anyway, in order to follow along with the photographs, you're going to have to ultimately get to the Enterprise Mission website.
	And the first thing that they put up under this DoGeologist's Dream of Windblown Sheep... By the way, who the hell makes that stuff up, anyway?
	Mike Barra.
	Mike Barra?
	My dear colleague in crime.
	That was really good.
	It was superb.
	I cannot...
	An engineer's diligence and a poet's imagination.
	And when you read the article, you'll see why he titled it that.
	Because these guys at NASA, after they took this picture, which we're going to discuss in the next few hours, they basically claimed that it's all in our imagination.
	And that it's all done by the wind.
	OK, well look.
	The first picture you're going to see on the Enterprise mission is the actual NASA And when I first... I intentionally didn't look until tonight.
	I've got it on the screen right now.
	When I first looked at just the strip itself, Richard, I said... I know that I shouldn't, but I said, oh, come on.
	You know, the same old thing I always say.
	But I admit, and I'm telling everybody out there, don't just do as I have done.
	Don't just say that.
	What's going to come, as we go close up into this photograph, I think is going, in my opinion, substantiates the original picture of the face on Mars.
	It looks just exactly like the original picture with more detail, but there's no, in my mind, I'm getting way ahead of myself, but, you know, the bottom line of this, Richard, it seems to me, is that the new picture's just like the old picture.
	That's what I think.
	Well, you know what this is, is what I call either the Gigi Phenomenon or the Mona Lisa Phenomenon.
	Gigi?
	Remember Gigi?
	The movie Gigi?
	Sort of.
	A little.
	Yeah, well, it was a wonderful movie and there was a great song in it.
	And it was called, Have I Been Standing Up Too Close or Back Too Far?
	Yeah.
	If you stand back too far, you don't see anything.
	If you stand up too close to a work of art, you don't see anything.
	Because you basically see the brush strokes.
	There is a medium distance at which a work of art is meant to be viewed.
	And Odyssey is probably within that ballpark, within that range of distance, because the image is about twice as good as the Viking image.
	Right.
	It's about one-tenth as close as the Mars Surveyor image.
	All right, when we get down to the blow-ups and you get down to the actual face on Mars, folks, what I'm saying to you tonight is that, to me, it looks like the same face.
	It really does, this time.
	It looks like the same face.
	And it's because, I guess, of the angle and the lighting being fairly similar, Richard?
	Fairly similar.
	Two in the afternoon, the Viking lighting was taken at about four in the afternoon.
	There's a difference between fall and summer.
	But basically the lighting is very similar, and obviously a work of art is meant to be viewed under consistent lighting.
	Okay, so there's only two things you can believe once you see the blow-up, folks, and I would say number one is that you are seeing a face that was created by beings to be seen as a face, and it is reasonable to assume that when you look at these photographs, both the old and now the brand new.
	There would be erosion, but it looks like it was At one time, a rather sharp, distinct face, and has eroded.
	You could either believe that, and that's totally plausible, or you could believe it's the hundred monkey thing.
	The trouble is, there are other objects that trouble the hundred monkeys.
	It would make it more like a million monkeys.
	I have said from day one, when DiPietro Molinar got me into this kicking and screaming, because remember, I was not a believer in the beginning.
	I was skeptical, and I proceeded, and I've written this whole elaborate story.
	of the last 20 years of my pursuit of the truth on this, and the Monuments of Mars is sitting on the edge of forever.
	Which, by the way, is now in its fifth and final edition, the 2001 edition, which has now come out, and we're getting some very nice reviews.
	I've added a lot of new material.
	You know, not this image, because obviously this came in after you put the book to bed, but we have the previous image from Dr. Malin, the high-resolution image that you and I had such wonderful times discussing several months ago.
	Um, and as I've looked at this over the years, the question that I always had was, well, if it was just a face, it could be the trick of light and shadow.
	It could be the, you know, things we see in the clouds.
	It could be the projection of human psychology.
	So what I started looking for, and I say so in the book and I've said consistently for 20 years, was a context.
	Because if this was done, if this was the work of intelligent beings, of any stripe, any ilk, any species, There had to be a logic and a rationale for doing it.
	And the only logic and rationale that we have to go from is our experience here on Earth.
	So I was looking at anthropological and archaeological, you know, resemblances and models here in our own terrestrial database, and of course you go to Egypt immediately to look at faces in pyramids.
	That's the place everybody thinks of.
	That's where they are.
	I began finding this exquisite geometric context The face on Mars.
	You're saying you see parallels between the face and what's at Giza in Egypt?
	Absolutely.
	And there were specific numerical parallels.
	There were specific morphological.
	In other words, you had pyramids in a complex that was arrayed geometrically.
	You know, not too far away from a thing that looked like a sphinx.
	And before anybody dismisses this, remember, Nobody knows how the hell those pyramids were built.
	Not even the man who presides over the Pazahi Awas.
	He'll tell you in the end.
	There are mysteries he can't answer.
	Period.
	There's no way.
	No, they've had a number of folks, Japanese and others, in there trying to duplicate the pyramids.
	Nobody's done it.
	No one's been able to.
	They finally had to resort to bulldozers and helicopters.
	And even then they could only produce little small ones a few feet high.
	Oh, God, Richard, I've got to bring this up to you.
	It may have been during your blackout zone time, but there's a gentleman, a caller of mine, who is a big fan of the Coral Castle thing.
	Okay.
	And he went inside the Coral Castle, Richard, and took a picture of an electromagnetic device.
	It's a dangerous thing you've ever seen, Richard, if that's not an electromechanical Electromagnetic device of some kind.
	I'll eat my shorts, you know?
	I mean, it is.
	When I was down there, you know, kind of living under duress in Miami for six months because of the heart thing and all that after the miracle.
	Well, remember, yes.
	We did a couple of trips to Coral Castle, Robin and I and some friends.
	And you saw that thing?
	Oh, yeah.
	It's sitting there covered with dust in the lower part of his stone A cupola that he built, where he actually lived, with very primitive accouterments.
	And I looked at it, and I had that kind of passing impression, but there's so much that's missing.
	It's like that came out of Stargate.
	Well, it certainly is a rotary device.
	Now remember, I said on the show, from Miami one night, a few weeks after they let me out of the hospital, remember?
	Yes.
	That we had found, on a wall, evidence of how he did this.
	And what I found, in fact I think we have a picture somewhere on the Enterprise Mission website, and it was Robin who actually saw it, above his stone bathtub that he had carved out of the coral, was a double tetrahedron.
	Looking, you know, in plain, like the Jewish star, which is what the Jewish star is.
	It's a double tetrahedron in two dimensions.
	In the coral castles in Florida, tons and tons of stones were moved by this man in secret.
	No one knows how he did it.
	He was like a 90 pound weakling.
	That's a big giant story.
	He did what the Egyptians did.
	He did what the Egyptians did.
	He did the impossible.
	He did the impossible.
	There was a story in one of the booklets they give out that when he was moving it from one site to another, which is a very important point, because the geometry and the location on the terrestrial grid is important.
	Why did he have to move it?
	No one knows.
	No one knows?
	My feeling is that he miscalculated where he originally was supposed to put it, and he had to pick the whole damn thing up, which is hundreds of tons of stone art, by himself, and move it.
	Now, what he did is he actually hired a big rig, one of these big flatbeds, and the workmen would drive the stone from the old site a few miles away to the new site, but he wouldn't let them Uh, see how he moved the stones.
	The workman did not move the stones.
	He did not move the stones.
	All he did was drive himself.
	And there's a story that one day, they all went to lunch, and he was there by himself, and one guy had forgotten his lunch pail back at the old work site.
	So he came back in his, you know, flipper, because this was back in the 30s or 20s or whatever, to get his lunch.
	And instead of finding his... And he found in 20 minutes, while he'd been gone, Led Scallion had loaded the whole damn truck with these stones!
	By himself!
	Now, there's no physical way that one man could have done that with any conventional technology.
	Unless he had the secret.
	Unless he had a way to make them weightless.
	Unless he had the secret that the Egyptians had and that maybe the Martians had.
	Yeah, and he basically made nullified inertia And he floated them over to the flatbed and lowered them down, and in 20 minutes, he had most of the whole truck loaded, and the workman was absolutely flabbergasted.
	In fact, I think he quit.
	Did he?
	At that point, he quit.
	That's some story.
	You believe that to be true, huh?
	Well, it's either one of those colloquial things, you know, folk tales that kind of circulate around someone like with Scallion, or it is true.
	All right, hold it right there.
	Given that there's so much about the castle that's so weird and inexplicable and really neat, I have a tendency to think that it's true.
	All right, hold on.
	We'll be right back.
	Richard C. Hoagland is my guest, and we are going to take you on a true adventure tonight through these photographs.
	And I must admit, even me, the guy who said nothing but a pile of rocks last time, this time I look at it, and oh my, I see a face.
	This is, uh, really interesting.
	This is like the old face.
	Same face, uh, new face, same as the old face.
	We'll be right back.
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	How she made it in Some velvet morning when I was crazy
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	Phaedra is my name Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nigh from west of the Rockies
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	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
	So, a connection between Giza, the Pyramids, the Sphinx, Mars, And the photographs we've just got, we'll verify that for you as the evening goes on.
	I've got kind of a curveball I want to serve up to Richard very quickly when we get back regarding some other Odyssey data.
	See what he has to say about that.
	It is fascinating.
	Don't touch that dial.
	Well, if you're like me, you can't wait and you've zoomed down Richard's page to see the new picture, the new face, and then he's got a comparison between the old face and the new face.
	You know, I must say, as I told you when I told you the one photograph they took, the awful one, to me it was a cat box.
	We're back to its being a face.
	In my opinion, we're back to its being a face.
	Now, that would seem to generate an astounding amount of pressure for a trip to Mars.
	But here's a Knight Ritter Tribune article I've got that I'm going to read and then get Richard's comment on.
	Knight Ritter Tribune, Houston.
	NASA's latest mission to Mars has confirmed that astronauts won't be visiting there anytime soon.
	Even Val Kilmer couldn't survive the deadly radiation that he would encounter on the way to the Red Planet.
	Last week, scientists announced new measurements of the radiation hazard taken by the robotic Mars Odyssey spacecraft on the way to Mars.
	A person would be blasted with more than twice the radiation experienced by astronauts in the relatively protected environment of Earth's orbit.
	This is bad news, the article says.
	This is a real problem for getting humans out there, said Tim Claighorn, a radiation expert at NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston last week at a gathering of planetary scientists.
	Now, the person who said this to me adds, I spoke with a very close associate, In manned spaceflight at JSC today and he says this story is a total fabrication by the boys at JPL and in the space robotics program he says no prior probes sent to Mars have indicated this radiation hazard.
	He thinks it's being done to shoot down the growing push for a manned flight to Mars.
	Richard?
	I agree.
	You do?
	Yeah, I'll tell you why.
	Go back to the numbers.
	The astronauts who are up there right now on the space station.
	Yeah.
	Who are spending like between three and five months and then they come home.
	Right.
	They receive about what you'd get by going into a doctor's office and getting an x-ray.
	So then if you were to get twice that, which is what he's... You would have two x-rays.
	You would have two.
	So why then would Tim Claghorn, a radiation expert at NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston, say this?
	As though it kills the idea of a manned mission to Mars.
	I mean, that's the way the story reads.
	Maybe he's secretly being paid by JPL.
	I mean, look, we know JPL doesn't play fair, and we know that they have been extraordinarily unhappy with the idea of going to Mars with anything that could give us the truth about what's there.
	So, when this story came out, this is not a new story, this is maybe a month or two old, there were a lot of people in the space business who were extremely I'm skeptical of both the writer... It's about a month.
	It's March 23rd.
	Yeah, it's about a month.
	Skeptical of the writer as well as those people that she interviewed.
	And when you look at the actual numbers, I mean, radiation in space has been... Somebody named Alexander Witts.
	Upper most in a lot of people's minds for a very long time, since the Apollo missions.
	And the space station, you know, when they talk about factors of two, you've got to have a baseline.
	You've got to know what your original number is, and the original number is about equivalent to one x-ray.
	You get more radiation art, you know, if you're a, let's say, a Concorde pilot.
	Okay, so Richard, I don't disprove you for one second.
	You know, I mean, two x-rays worth of radiation, you know, to get to Mars.
	Pooey.
	No big deal.
	Nothing at all.
	I mean, not even a consideration.
	That's the background.
	So then why in the hell would they, at a time when they could get money, I mean, these new photographs, there's going to be a lot of interest in Mars, even you are doing a movie, we'll touch on that here.
	I mean, big time on Mars, and here they're writing the kind of article that seems intended to, you know, throw water on the whole thing.
	Well, we have discussed, you know, on the show innumerable times the fact that it's not a level playing field, that there is weird politics around Mars and what's there.
	And there are factions, you know, we've even called them After Chris Carter, the roosters and the owls.
	You know, the owls in NASA want to basically keep the lid on and not get people excited or interested or, you know, intrigued.
	And the roosters basically want to leak stuff and give people enough information that they will mount a serious public demand on the Congress to demand that we go to Mars and find out what's there.
	Now, what's really interesting, and I was going to do this a little later on, but, you know, since we're jumping the gun tonight, why not?
	What was very intriguing to me about the release of this latest image, this Odyssey visible light strip, was the timing.
	First of all, it was done on a Friday.
	Remember that I called you a few weeks ago and I told you that our Bush sources had told us there was going to be a picture and a news conference, and I promo'd the fact on the air and I said you'd be here if there was a news conference.
	Uh, there was some kind of news conference, but there weren't pictures, and so we didn't have you on.
	Then, all of a sudden... Well, then, Odyssey's folks decided to do a picture a day.
	And they've been releasing the most nondescript, you know, ordinary, mundane, you know, uh, more Martian sand and craters and windblown dust kind of images until last Friday.
	And then, kaboom.
	Then the thirteenth image Remember their numerology guys over there?
	The 13th image, released on April 12th, was the Sedona region, which they had promised us.
	But it's not the picture that we really want, Art, and I will say that a little later.
	I will tell you probably in the next hour what one we're really waiting for, and we think now that we might actually get.
	But let me go back to the other thing that happened on Friday, the 12th, as this image was being released.
	Sean O'Keefe, who's the new NASA head, the replacement for Dan Golden, was in Syracuse, New York, at the Maxwell School, where he's a graduate in public administration, giving an address to a whole bunch of other public administrators, and basically the world, on, and here is the subject, pioneering the future.
	And one of the two things, or one of the three things that he talked about in that speech, which I taped, Because it was very important.
	It's basically telling us where the Bush administration is on this whole question of where's NASA going and are we going to go along with them?
	And so, what did he say?
	He said that this is NASA's new vision for the future.
	I'm quoting from his speech now, which is on the NASA website.
	To improve life here, which is all the spinoffs and all the biological stuff the space station is going to do and all that.
	To extend life to there, meaning manned missions to other places in the solar system.
	And to find life beyond.
	And he said, this is the roadmap our people will follow into this new millennium.
	These are exciting times.
	We are on the threshold of discovery.
	And we hope to take you on that journey into the future.
	We will pioneer the future, he said.
	And as Lincoln tasked us, we will, quote, disdain the beaten path and seek regions hitherto unexplored.
	Sounds like the intro to Star Trek.
	Doesn't it?
	Yeah.
	Now, Sean O'Keefe is supposed to be a bean counter.
	You know, he's supposed to be an accountant, he was the Secretary of the Navy, he was... I was going to ask you which side, you know, the roosters, or which side the bean counters were on.
	Okay, the roosters are the ones that crow about things.
	The owls are the ones that sit on it.
	So the cover-up crowd are the owls.
	And the ones that are leaking us this information, including the folks that call me on the phone, from inside the Bush crowd... They're the roosters.
	They're the roosters.
	And the bean counters come from our dear friend, you know, who did X-Files.
	And there's rooster bean counters?
	Well, Sean O'Keefe has a background very similar, as I've said on this show before, to James Webb, who was the kick-ass public administrator who Kennedy picked to basically, you know, spearhead his mission to the moon.
	uh... apollo jono keith talking awful lot
	james webb for instance here's another quote from from the speech
	which is really important speech yesterday
	simultaneous with the release of this the image
	of cydonia do not discount those quote coincidences because
	as franklin delano roosevelt used to say in politics
	there are no coincidences okay that's pretty intriguing
	okay Here's what O'Keefe said.
	As I've been telling you today, NASA has to do things differently in the future.
	One fundamental difference is a need to find new ways to explore the galaxy.
	The galaxy, Mr. O'Keefe?
	The galaxy?
	Yeah, I mean, this is a bean counter?
	Listen, it goes on.
	Conventional rockets and fuel simply aren't practical as we reach further out into the cosmos.
	That's right.
	That's why we are launching an initiative to explore the use of nuclear propulsion.
	One of the major obstacles of de-space travel, O'Keefe said, is finding fast and efficient ways to get around, to get to anywhere.
	Today's spacecraft travel at speeds only slightly faster than John Glenn's Friendship 7 did 40 years ago.
	NASA has explored the use of solar sails and ion engines as alternatives to conventional fuels But their uses are limited and restrict us to very close-in objectives.
	May I ask you a question?
	If we had a nuclear engine in space, what could we achieve?
	Anything.
	Remember, as Heinlein said, once you're in orbit, you're halfway to anything.
	Yeah, absolutely so.
	We had a nuclear propulsion system in space.
	Give me the real lowdown.
	We know what the speed of light is.
	How fast could we go?
	Ultimately, up to the speed of light.
	Depends on what kind of nuclear propulsion you're talking about.
	Nuclear propulsion could take us to the speed of light, or right up to the edge, depending on whether you're... Well, did you include in nuclear the idea of antimatter drives, a la Star Trek?
	Yes.
	I mean, that's the ultimate efficiency in conventional drives.
	But with what we have now, from a nuclear point of view?
	You could certainly get to Mars, depending upon what kind of technology he's pushing, and what he's... I mean, listen to what he says.
	He says here, Nuclear propulsion is the next logical step to overcome this technology limitation.
	It's a mature technology, and its application in space travel has great potential.
	Remember, he's a Navy man, okay?
	Sure.
	He says the U.S.
	Navy has been operating nuclear-powered vessels since 1955.
	In that time, the Navy has sailed more than 120 million miles without incident.
	And has safely operated these efficient power generators for more than 5,000 reactor years.
	And throughout that time, the Navy has designed more compact, safer, and more efficient reactors, which last a 40-year life for the vessels without refueling.
	Yeah, but I will add this, Richard.
	There is a little difference.
	I mean, after all, you crack a bottle of champagne on a ship and it slides into the water.
	It doesn't have to blast into space.
	There is that.
	Listen to what he's saying.
	This is the head of NASA now.
	I'm listening.
	The technology is there.
	We just need to take it the next step to increase speed and on-orbit time, thereby beginning to overcome this persistent technical limitation.
	If we're going to pioneer the future as only NASA can, he said, we're going to need new ways to get us there.
	Now, let me tell you the political reality.
	You don't need that segment of his speech if you're only thinking robots.
	It doesn't matter how long it takes a robot to get to Mars, or Jupiter, or Pluto.
	That's true.
	In other words, move back toward man.
	But if you're talking men and women, if you're talking a manned expedition to set down at Cydonia and once and for all put spades in the ground, turn over the earth and find out what's there, you need nuclear propulsion as a foundation And the same day the administrator said this, they released this new provocative testimony.
	Can you tell me, in layman's language, how a nuclear engine in space would work?
	In other words, I know how it works for a ship, and we covered that, or a submarine, for example, but by what means do you convert and use energy in a nuclear space engine?
	Okay, there are several.
	I can think of three right off the bat.
	One is, and I think this is what will keep us thinking, is you take the most efficient power reactor the Navy has produced, right?
	Right.
	And what do power reactors do in a nuclear submarine?
	They don't propel the ship, the boat, directly.
	No, they make heat.
	No, they don't.
	And they heat water, right?
	Oh, okay.
	They integrate electrical power.
	Yeah, it's all the same.
	Megawatts and megawatts and megawatts of electrical power.
	Yes, sir.
	And they do it for the 40-year life of the boat.
	Yes, sir.
	Fine.
	So apply that out of space.
	What he's recommending is taking that same technology and putting it in orbit to make electricity, gobs of electricity.
	And then?
	And then that electricity is used to fuel or to power ion engines, okay?
	Yes.
	And because you've got all that power to spare, you can have lots of ion engines.
	You cluster them just like von Braun clustered, you know, the five engines of the Saturn V. Right.
	And you basically then refuel in orbit using things like shuttles and expendables to take up the fuel, which can be mercury, it can be cesium, it can be a number of exotic metals.
	Gotcha.
	And you use the electricity to ionize the metals, shoot them out the back end of the ion engine, At 100,000 miles per second, close to the speed of light in some cases, and that little push drives you in the other direction as a rocket.
	Okay.
	And the difference is, it keeps pushing and pushing and pushing.
	And pushing and pushing.
	And so you build up velocity.
	Instead of coasting, you're under constant acceleration.
	Even if it's only a tenth or a hundredth of a G, over several weeks that mounts up to incredible speeds.
	And then you're breaking.
	And then you turn around halfway and you break.
	Into orbit when you get where you want to go.
	So, now I see an application here, Richard, for very deep space travel.
	Obviously, you could get up there at the speed of light.
	Right.
	But, in a trip to Mars, just as an example, what is it normally, 18 months?
	No, it's about 8 or 9 months.
	8 or 9 months.
	Okay, round trip 18 months, that's right.
	So, how much faster with this kind of engine?
	Depending, well, you'd have to look at all the numbers and You know, the various sizings and all that.
	But I would say ballpark, probably cut it by a third.
	Wow.
	All right.
	And that number would get much, much bigger as your destination got farther out.
	That's right, because you have a longer runway.
	That's right.
	Accelerate.
	That's right.
	You can accelerate.
	But you only need this, Art, if you're thinking men and women going with a big expedition.
	So that would suggest to you that NASA is moving back toward a manned This was a nuclear propulsion program, as I said on an earlier show, at NASA 40 years ago.
	And it actually produced some very interesting technology.
	And they used to demonstrate it, test it, not far from where you live, at a place called Jackass Flats, the Nevada test site, out there a few miles from you.
	Yes.
	And they had an engine called Nerva.
	And it worked, right?
	And it worked!
	And that was not nuclear electric, that was a straight rocket.
	In other words, with a rocket, what you need is a heat source, And the fuel.
	And the heat source expands the fuel, and it squirts out the back end, and because of Newton's Third Law, the thing goes forward.
	In a nuclear rocket, as opposed to a chemical rocket, or let me tell you how a chemical rocket works.
	You take two fuels, like hydrogen and oxygen.
	Mix them together.
	You mix them together, they explode.
	A controlled explosion.
	Correct.
	They burn fast.
	Right.
	Those expanding gases in an engine, you know, with a familiar bell shape, You know, jet the gases out the back end.
	Absolutely.
	The reaction pushes the vehicle, you know, attached to the engine forward, and you get where you want to go.
	And in the case of nuclear power?
	They would substitute the chemical reaction for it with a nuclear reactor.
	In other words, you have basically a reactor where you flow a fluid through it.
	And the reactor provides the heat.
	Not a chemical reaction, but the basic nuclear reaction itself makes the reactor hot.
	Several thousand degrees.
	Right.
	And they flow hydrogen through it, which is the lightest gas.
	Right.
	And therefore it gives you the highest exhaust velocity.
	And these were the engines that were tested at Jackass Flats.
	Called, in the so-called NERVA, N-E-R-V-A Program Act.
	And they worked.
	In the 1960s.
	And they worked!
	And they had problems, and they would spew reactor parts into the sky in the initial ones, and they eventually, with companies like Westinghouse, and DuPont, and GE, and all the high-tech firms back then, They were able to solve all the problems, and they were on the verge of an actual flight test.
	And what happened?
	It was shut down.
	Why?
	That's a very good question.
	And it's a very good place to take a break.
	Richard C. Hoagland is my guest.
	Always strange things going on with Mars.
	Inextricable in so many ways.
	They release information like these photographs that again take us back to the fact that we've got a face here, and a lot more than a face, I might add.
	Pyramids, all the kinds of things that you see at Giza in Egypt.
	So there's something about Mars, right?
	There's definitely something about Mars, but do we or do we not wish to go there?
	I don't know.
	It's hard to figure out.
	Two Faces coming from NASA.
	We'll be right back.
	Oh, yeah.
	ah ah
	i don't understand it's just my job five days a week
	a rocket man and i think it's gonna be
	Long, long time.
	Talking on brings me round to get you fine.
	Long, long night, I think I am at home.
	Home, home, home, home.
	Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from West of the Rockies at 1-800-9-4-3-4-3-4.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033. First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222 and
	the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295. To reach out on the toll-free international
	line call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
	Well, one's all right.
	This one, no, I'm not.
	Under the category of Deja Vu, here we go again.
	And what have we done to deserve this?
	Let me read you the forecast for Southern Nye County, which is where I live.
	You know what we just went through yesterday, right?
	This just popped up.
	South winds have increased across Southern Nye County and will continue through the day Wednesday as of 11.45 p.m.
	Just a little while ago, the Desert Dock Airport near Mercury, that's the test site folks, have recorded wind gusts of 55 miles per hour.
	Now they're saying strong winds have been localized so far, but will become more widespread toward daybreak.
	Sustained winds of 25 to 35 miles an hour should be expected with gusts now they're saying to 55 miles an hour.
	This will produce areas of Reduced visibility and blowing dust and sand, and they're not kidding.
	So, here we go again.
	If you're in the southern Nevada area, based on what I just read, you damn well better buckle down and buckle in and get all the missiles that are lying around as far away as you can.
	That's one danger we've got here now.
	We had so much damage yesterday in the winds, or now the day before.
	That there's a lot of loose material out there.
	And if we get 55 mile an hour winds today, or worse, those are going to become missiles.
	So... And then there is this for all of you.
	Aurora warning.
	A full halo coronal mass ejection billowed away from the sun.
	The expanding cloud is, in fact, headed toward Earth.
	And could ignite northern lights, most likely at high latitudes, but very possibly mid-latitudes as well, that might be us, when it sweeps past our planet on April 17th or 18th.
	Visit spaceweather.com for updates.
	So, two little bits of breaking news there.
	there. Oh, boy. Well, 55 mile an hour winds on their way.
	Trace, you're on the air. You're on the air. You're on the air. You're on the air. You're
	Just exactly what everybody wanted to hear.
	And so the warning, let it be out, everybody.
	Buckle in out there.
	And the sun just spit a big one at us, Richard.
	Interesting times we live in.
	Sounds like hyper-dimensional weather to me.
	Yeah, hyper-dimensional weather.
	Right.
	We had two days of 30 mile an hour straight winds here.
	I woke up this morning and the house was shaking.
	Yeah.
	It was so fierce.
	Yeah, we had 84 miles an hour.
	Now we're 55, and it's going to be 55, and it's going to blow around things like weapons.
	All right, look, for the moment, back, Richard, to your page and these incredible... Look, we've got to discuss on the face of it, no pun intended, what you make out of these new photographs.
	Another satellite, it's another time, it's many years later.
	Well, this is Arthur Clarke's mission.
	My dear friend, Arthur, that I've known since the mid-60s.
	And NASA named this mission.
	It was a nameless mission.
	It just had a number.
	And they decided a few years ago they were going to call this mission, launched last year, 2001, the 2001 Mars Odyssey Mission.
	And Arthur has been hinting in all different venues and all different ways for the last couple of years That this mission, when it got to Mars, was going to find and confirm some really neat stuff.
	Right.
	He's been talking about bushes and trees and artifacts.
	Right.
	And, you know, he's done everything but basically say, you know, it's there.
	What he did say in his email to the Lockheed Martin people, who actually built this spacecraft the day it was launched, is he sent this email and he said, basically, I won't believe in artifacts until I can read the license plates.
	So, find them!
	Yes.
	Now, you know, in my take, having known Arthur for all these years, is that he's part of the in-crowd and he knows what's there.
	You know, he gave this very interesting review of my book, The Monuments of Mars, many years ago in a book of his called The Snows of Olympus.
	And it was kind of, you know, cute and tongue-in-cheek and all that, but the bottom line is, He has been incredibly robust in the last couple of years on the idea that Mars is teeming with life.
	And the day that they inserted the spacecraft into orbit, he sent me an email which he copied, not in the blind, but in public, to a whole bunch of other NASA people.
	I'm sure that made their day.
	Where he said, basically, that he found a whole bunch of images, you know, from Dr. Malin's site, and he gave all the numbers, and he talked about, you know, something, you know, leaving a trail through the jungle.
	And something with tentacles and, you know, banyan trees.
	Yes.
	I mean, he has been incredibly aggressive on the concept that Odyssey, when it got there, was going to confirm the most extraordinary, different planet than what NASA has been telling us for the last 40 years.
	You've been talking to Arthur C. Clarke, haven't you?
	I've been emailing him.
	Well, that's talking to him.
	I mean, basically, you know, we're in the same room, even though we're halfway around the planet.
	Right.
	That's today's Internet.
	You know, people really should go ahead and scroll down the page.
	I mean, you've got the three images.
	I wanted to do this a little systematically.
	I know you do.
	Well, that's what science is.
	It's systematic.
	And it's not that it looks like a face art.
	It does to me.
	Well, but it's not.
	That's the beginning.
	That's not the end.
	That's what gets you interested.
	What's got me interested.
	But what really convinced me, and I have no qualm in saying that I am 99.999% certain that there were ancient Martians on Mars tonight is the geometry and the mathematics of the site.
	Remember, it was it was Sagan who said that intelligent life on Earth first manifests itself in the geometric regularity of its construction.
	It's so hard though to convince, you know, it gets down to the math and you've got to understand the math.
	And when you understand the math, I understand The crystal clarity that comes to you, but the average person in the audience, if you look, if you can figure a way to explain this to people so that they are actually going to understand it, have at it, Richard.
	Well, I've only spent, what, 20 years doing this?
	Yep.
	And I went over to Amazon.com tonight because I wanted to make sure that Keith had the latest link up, and you know how they have basically public reviews of your books?
	Sure.
	And you go in, everyone's an author, and also you kind of Quietly read the reviews and see what people are thinking, because it's a very good poll.
	People who get it, people who don't get it.
	It's first come, first serve.
	It's like your open caller lines.
	There's no pre-selection.
	What you see on the site is what you get.
	Yeah, but a lot of times you get your enemies going out there writing crap, too.
	Well, what's interesting is that more people who get it are writing reviews for Monuments of Mars than people who are enemies, people who are skeptics.
	For example, when I go to the photographs of the pyramids, Richard, I see the incredible... I mean, these are pyramids.
	And, you know, when you compare, it's pretty obvious.
	I don't know... I need all the math for that.
	These are pretty... If you scroll down past the strip image... Right.
	...to the next strip, which is an enlargement... Right.
	...it says face at the top.
	At the bottom it says DNM.
	That's right.
	In the middle it says tetrahedral ruin.
	Right.
	On the cat box image...
	Right.
	By the way, in Monuments, I now have immortalized you.
	I have described the story of how we got this name, the Cat Box Image, in 98.
	I was so disappointed in that photograph.
	You know, I have four cats, and you know, they can do a lot of business in there.
	It's not enough for them.
	You've been immortalized, too.
	Yeah, that's right.
	So I called it the Cat Box Image.
	It looked like something the cat dragged in out of a litter box.
	Yeah, it still does.
	On that image, which was a very low angle, it was 45 degrees from the vertical, and it was taken under the most atrocious lighting, and JPL did something with filters that made it look absolutely flat.
	Agreed.
	There was this little weird thing below the mesa to the south of the face, which you can see, if you scroll down, in the middle of the strip, where I have face and DNM and tetrahedral ruin.
	Yes.
	Just below that little mesa, there's this little thing, and then if you scroll a little further down, I've got an enlargement.
	You're referring to this triangle area?
	Triangle.
	Okay.
	Equilateral triangle.
	Yes, I see it.
	What you see on the left is the image.
	On the right is the overlay.
	Okay.
	On the left, that is the partial edges of a former tetrahedron, which is a four-cornered, four-sided pyramid.
	It's one of the so-called platonic solids.
	Now the reason I'm so intrigued with this, if you scroll back up a little bit, is this tetrahedron isn't sitting on Mars just any old place.
	It's sitting about halfway between the face and this big massive pyramid to the south called the DNM.
	I agree.
	And it is, if you draw a line between the apex of the pyramid and the midpoint between the eyes and the face, it's 19.5 degrees to that line is this tetrahedral ruin.
	Now, what people need to know, who have not heard me in a while, is that if you put a tetrahedron in a sphere, the points will touch, three of them anyway, at nineteen and a half degrees above or below the equator of a spinning sphere.
	So what we have here is a mathematical redundancy that Sagan, if he was still with us, would have if he really got into the nitty-gritty before he had died.
	He was beginning to get intrigued with Sidonia.
	He said we should take new pictures.
	If he'd stuck around for the endgame, he would have been part of this discussion on, I believe, our side, because he was an honest broker when it came to remarkable data.
	No, we're not at the endgame yet.
	And we're not there yet, but we're getting closer.
	So now you scroll... These photographs... Scroll where?
	Scroll further down.
	Okay.
	Now the next object we have, again from this same Themis Odyssey image strip taken and released on Friday last.
	Right.
	We have this object we call the DNM Pyramid.
	It's gigantic.
	It's gigantic.
	It's about a mile and a half on the long side, a mile on the short side.
	Wow.
	I call it DNM after DiPietro and Molinar back in 87 when I was writing Monuments and doing the first investigations because they actually were the two Goddard imaging guys that found it back in 1970 Nine.
	Okay.
	And so I figured they deserved a place on Mars.
	Alright, now you scroll a little further down.
	You'll see two images of the same pyramid side-by-side.
	The one on the left is the enhanced version.
	We kind of contrast enhanced it.
	Sure.
	Yes.
	And we got an overlay showing five sides to it.
	This came from my friend Errol Torin.
	Yeah, that's very clear.
	The geomorphologist that defends mapping who came to me in the late 80's and said, This damn thing should not exist under any geomorphological analyses I can perform.
	There's no way that a five-sided figure like this can exist in nature because it was scoped by the winds.
	If the wind was blowing in one direction, Art, it would remove the other sides.
	Yeah, so nevertheless, nevertheless, there it is.
	You'd basically get a dome.
	You wouldn't get a planar object with facets.
	Okay, that's clear.
	Okay, on the right of this image, And the title of this is TNM Internal Geometry in Featured Detail.
	I basically annotated the new Odyssey image, showing all kinds of neat things we can see on it.
	And then if you scroll a little further down, you can see now some 3D work by Dr. Mark Carlotto from the original Viking data.
	Right.
	Companion with a Viking image on the right, the Odyssey image on the left, Another 3D shot from Carlotto below that.
	And below that now, a super enlargement and enhancement of the so-called buttresses, which are these protuberances that are on the corners of this pyramid.
	Richard, these absolutely look artificial to me.
	If you look at the left, look at that left button.
	No, they look artificial.
	Do you see the damn doors?
	Yeah, I do, Richard.
	Several hundred foot wide doors.
	Now, in monuments, This is like almost 20 years ago now.
	No, I see it.
	I see it clearly.
	I said that these buttresses may have been not just, you know, things to keep the pyramid up, like a buttress is supposed to, like the Cathedral of Notre Dame, the buttresses are basically part of the architectural form to keep the cathedral from collapsing.
	Right, sure.
	In these things, I thought maybe they were more interesting in that they were also architectural forms like entrances.
	Now we get the Themis image with enough resolution so you can see the geometry, particularly on the left-hand one, which is not destroyed.
	No, I clearly see it.
	It's rectangular, and if you click on it, it gets bigger and you can see it easier.
	Yeah, no, I see it just fine.
	Okay.
	Because it's very clear.
	Alright.
	One of the guys looking at the new image, a guy named Robert Harrison, at a site called Cydonia Quest, sent us an email over the weekend saying, You know, if you look at this in another way, the geometry is turned to the south as opposed to the north.
	And I looked, and I thought, well, he's looking at something.
	So then, if you scroll further down, you'll see a GIF animation series we put together called the DNN from a New Perspective.
	And all we've done is take the normal view and rotated it by I think it was 28 degrees from the way the shot was taken on the surface of the rocks.
	Right, right.
	And what I've done is we've overlaid three views.
	Just an ordinary view, a view with a line down the center, and then a flipped version where I've outlined basically, in white, the edges of the perimeter of the original pyramid that we saw in the Viking data.
	And then the new additional material that we now see at the new sun angle taken by the Odyssey camera.
	Right.
	Because the Odyssey image is not the same sunlight perspective as the old Viking data.
	And as you all know, if you ever fly over terrain to look down, as the sunlight changes, the ground changes because you're seeing different relief at different angles.
	Right.
	So what we're seeing here is this incredibly symmetrical object.
	Which has this five-sided symmetry.
	Scroll down a little further now, and you'll see on the left, I've got the original five-sided geometry with the buttress there in the shadow.
	Right.
	And I've got Carlotto's 3D reconstruction from Viking, which is this shape-from-shading technique, which is used by the military, it's used by NASA, it's state-of-the-art, and Carlotto has graciously been applying this to this data under our ages back in the mid-80s, you know, for the last almost 20 years.
	Right.
	And what we see on the left is the original geometry tilted, because I rotated this 28 degrees.
	On the right, what I've done now is to superimpose with red lines the new geometry that the new lighting has demonstrated together with the old geometry, which is in blue.
	Okay, so this is the new gift, the red part.
	Exactly.
	Okay.
	And what we're seeing now is that this 3D thing, this pyramid, this massive pyramid, was built on a two-dimensional platform that has seven
	sides.
	Now why is the seven sides interesting? Because again it's more mathematical redundancy.
	If you take a tetrahedron and you spin it, Art, there are only seven ways to spin a tetrahedron.
	There may be, according to Sam and Garfunkel, 50 ways to leave your lover, but there are only
	seven ways to symmetrically spin a tetrahedron.
	So, and remember if we could put the tetrahedron in the sphere you'd get the 19.5?
	Sure.
	The new platform, if you look at the angles there, one of the new angles with the buttress is 19.5 degrees in the internal angles of the new object that we're seeing in a new light.
	The point of all this being that the only way to resolve the issue from Earth of whether there was an ancient civilization on Mars is not what it looks like, but what the numbers tell us.
	And the numbers tell us, over and over and over again, in all kinds of ways, all over this complex that I and my colleagues have been studying for the last 20 years, that the tetrahedral geometry is the message of Cydonia, it's the means of determining that it's real, it's the means of proving it to skeptics who are willing to put their preconceptions aside and look at the numbers, and it's the means of luring us back to find out who was there, what they were doing there, and how long They were there and why they aren't there now.
	All right.
	Hold on, Richard.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	I see all of this clearly.
	And I think the average person, even ignoring the numbers, will look at the geometry and the face and they'll say, well, I guess we ought to go to Mars.
	That's what the average person, I think, is going to say.
	Because I say, we'll be right back.
	This is Coast to Coast AF.
	cold it's got so many people but it's got no soul and it's taken you so long
	you found out you were wrong when you thought it held everything
	you used to think that it was so easy you used to say that it was so easy
	but you're trying, you're trying now I love you and it would be epic
	Peace.
	Just one more year and then you'll be happy.
	But you're crying.
	You're crying now.
	To reach Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
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	line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
	Listen here now, I want to warn the people in my local area again, southern Nevada, that we're in for it again today.
	They just revised the weather forecast.
	Now they're talking about 55 mile per hour winds.
	That's a revision that occurred about an hour ago.
	That's serious stuff.
	They say it's going to begin about now, really take off at dawn, and we're in for another hellish day.
	Kind of like on Mars, actually.
	It's a lot like Mars when it gets going.
	It's all red.
	You can't see anything, and it's incredible.
	I mean, it's just unbelievable.
	Reminds me of what it... Well, I've never been to Mars, so what do I know?
	But from the stories I hear, it's probably like that.
	Hello there.
	You know, again, I'm a talk show host.
	I'm not a mathematician, and I don't absorb all that as easily as I'm sure, you know, the pure scientists do, but as I look down over what Richard has presented carefully on this website tonight, I do say that there is an irresistible suggestion of artificiality here.
	Period.
	I mean, whether you're looking at the pyramids, the tetrahedrons, the face on Mars itself, which we're about to discuss, any of it tonight, with the new images, suggests artificial Origins.
	How about that?
	And so, you know, we've got a good reason to be going to Mars, I guess.
	Richard, welcome back.
	Well, I think you're not the only one that shares that view.
	I think very quietly the Bush administration is building a public consensus and a technology, the nuclear initiative that O'Keefe is talking about, so we can do just that in a few years.
	Go to Mars, yeah?
	I hope so.
	And you've got to have a reason.
	And the only reason it makes sense is to find out if somebody used to be home.
	And so somebody used to be us.
	Richard, let's do it.
	Scroll down just one more and you're at the three faces, right?
	Yep.
	Alright, now tell them which face is which.
	Okay.
	On the far left we have the High Sun Angle Viking, frame 7813.
	This is the old one where everybody went, oh my god, it's a phase on Mars.
	It's one of the two that was taken in 76.
	Right.
	With a primitive Vidicon Cam.
	Remember Vidicon Cameras Art?
	Yes, of course.
	I ruined many of them.
	Well, they came after Imageorthicon, so that shows how old I am.
	Okay, the middle image is the one you didn't like.
	Yeah, and I still don't.
	I call it the cat box.
	No, that's not the cat box.
	This is the one that was taken on April 8th of 2001.
	Still cat box-y.
	And released two months later.
	Yeah, with what looks like... I didn't like it, right?
	Okay, and then the one on the far right is the current Themis Odyssey image that we're talking about tonight.
	Alright, if I imagine that this was a face, which I can easily do, and I can imagine erosion, which I can easily imagine on Mars, there's erosion, then, to me, this looks like it was a face.
	Yeah, and it's two faces.
	Remember, my model is left half is hominid, primitive human, right half a feline, a pussycat.
	What's really interesting is that when you go to various websites, as I do from time to time, an awful lot of people are who have never been involved in this discussion.
	They look at it and they say, oh my god, it's a lion!
	This is telling us something incredibly profound.
	Remember the night that I talked about a secret guy at JPL?
	Who was talking to one of my sources in California.
	Yes.
	And this was years ago.
	And I was having this dinner in this rather palatial place somewhere up in the Pasadena Hills.
	And the conversation turned to, you know, he obviously was trying to impress me with what his sources were telling him inside NASA about why all this is secret.
	Yes.
	Covered up and all that.
	And he says, you know, he says it's because of the feline half.
	And I had my laptop with me, and I turned it around on the table, and I pressed a couple of keys, and bingo, there appeared the image that we had done for my UN presentation ten years ago.
	Right.
	Well, this guy, you know those people that always have to one-up you?
	Yes.
	They have the big car, the big mansion, the big everything?
	They drive me nuts.
	This guy, he looked like someone who had stuck a pin into a souffle.
	He just kind of sank into himself because he thought he had this really neat scoop, but what he in fact had done was to confirm what we have strongly suspected, which is one of the very important reasons for the cover-up, you know, by the owls, is what this duality, this double image, this hominid feline thing is trying to tell us about life on Mars and life on Earth and how we're involved.
	And it's not going to be the way that a lot of people expect it to come out, and they're not going to be happy.
	Now, a few months ago, Arthur Clarke, back to dear Arthur, did a satellite address to a university in Worcester, a Worcester Polytech, I think.
	And it was some anniversary.
	You know, he's doing a lot of these now because he can sit there in Sri Lanka in paradise and be anywhere in the world by satellite.
	It's really cool.
	He was talking about a timeline.
	This was reported on Space.com and Yahoo and AOL and CNN and, you know, Fox, all those places.
	Arthur C. Clarke projects a timeline for the next 50 years.
	And he had a projection, a prediction, for the year 2032, I believe.
	Which was?
	Humans will go to Mars, and there will be an unpleasant surprise.
	Now think about this.
	Now what do you think?
	What the hell does he mean by unpleasant surprise?
	Unpleasant surprise.
	What do you think he means?
	I think he means we come face to face, pun intended everybody, with the reality of what the face on Mars really means.
	And what it means about us?
	Us.
	It has something to do with the fusion of a lion and a hominid image.
	And I'm going to develop this in a long before 2032.
	May I ask a media kind of question?
	Oh sure, go ahead.
	Since they released this photograph on Friday, this last Friday, they're so sharp, they're so fascinating, they're so interesting, that why are you not on CNN right now, or why have you not been on CNN since the release, or Koppel Show, or you know, I don't know, whatever.
	In other words, why hasn't the mainstream media since Friday Gone, oh gee, look, new photographs.
	These really are very interesting.
	Let's get Mr. Hoagland or somebody on and get the wild stuff.
	Why aren't they doing that?
	I think it's because we can only hold one thought in our media at one time now, and everybody's focused on Chiron and Arafat and the possibility of World War III.
	Right.
	And this will percolate along, and at some point, you know, somebody will go, ding, the light bulb will come on, and I'll get a couple of calls or some emails or whatever.
	Remember, we're doing this big Hollywood extravaganza.
	Oh, the movie!
	How's the movie going?
	What's going on?
	And where the hell's my script?
	Well, I've actually not sent it to you.
	I noticed.
	Because I'm a perfectionist.
	And I've got, you know, look, I promised on your show when I was on with Paul David, you know, a few months ago, We would do this in a transparent fashion.
	We would lay out what goes on with movies and movie making.
	I know, but you called me and said you were sending this.
	I know, I know, I did.
	And then you didn't do it.
	Well, it's not because I don't want to.
	It's because I don't want to, quite yet.
	There is an RKO person coming to visit me to discuss casting, production, and things like that.
	Yes.
	And to do some, how should we say, discussions on the script.
	Yes.
	And I wanted to incorporate those ideas before we actually gave you Something, because I want to be able to stand behind it.
	And a movie is like an army.
	I mean, it's like doing the D-Day invasion.
	Yeah, I know.
	And an awful lot of people get involved in the process.
	Well, I would say these new photographs are going to, the new Odyssey photographs, are going to buttress the case, you know, for the movie, not to mention the Mars mission.
	I mean, they're going to buttress the case for the movie, I believe.
	No, it's a terrible pun.
	You mean the DNF pyramid buttress.
	No, I mean all the new pictures.
	All of them.
	No, you're absolutely right.
	And, you know, the good news is things are progressing extremely well on the movie front.
	The bad news is, for those that want to desperately see this script, I'm being very persnickety.
	When you get it, I want it to be something I really am really, really happy with.
	Well, this is an opportunity for MGM to reach an entire new level of frustration, even for You mean RKO?
	I'm sorry, RKO.
	Yeah, that's right.
	An entire new level of frustration.
	I'm sure they always have a hard time with this kind of thing, but just wait till they meet Richards.
	Actually, Ted Hartley, who runs the company, and Tom Mount, who is the head of our project, are very happy with everything that's going on, and they're very pleased.
	I will say one thing, that since we submitted this new draft, The budget has increased substantially.
	Really?
	Well, then they obviously like it.
	They like it, and we want to really, really like it.
	Anyway, I'll have more to report to people.
	Now, the one thing that I can tell everybody that has remained exactly the same is that I am dead serious, and so is Tom, about including as many folks in this audience who want to be in this thing Don't laugh!
	I'm laughing just because I know what it brings on.
	Because there are people that have followed this research for years, and you know, it's almost like, you know how the first three laws of business are location, location, location?
	Yep.
	You ask me why CNN isn't calling me up and asking me to talk about this latest stuff, it's because it isn't a big enough media splash yet.
	The production of a feature film, based on the reality of what we've figured out on this, That makes the big screen and is reviewed in variety and on the Today Show and all that is going to definitely drive this to number one in terms of media land.
	And then all those media people who you couldn't get arrested with day before yesterday will suddenly be asking me on talk shows to talk about how this movie was made and how long it was in production and where the research was done and who was involved and all that.
	So that's one of the key reasons why we're doing this.
	The other reason is it's going to be one hell of a lot of fun.
	And what I want to do is include as many folks in this audience in that fun as we can legitimately get away with.
	And Tom and Ted are behind me on this.
	What would you need are big crowd scenes?
	Well, we have them.
	We certainly have them.
	We have a demonstration that we actually produced in the real world that we're going to recreate in the film at some point.
	All right.
	All right.
	I'll give a little hint there of what might be in this thing.
	Well, I mean, you need that to get a lot of the audience in.
	So that would be one.
	My old friend Gene Roddenberry, when he did his first Star Trek movie, Which was with the support of the fans.
	He found a way to include a lot of Star Trek fans as experts in the film.
	So all I'm doing is continuing the democratization process of Enterprise and this investigation.
	And as I said on that show, the one criteria that we are kind of insisting on is that people who want to be in this know what we're talking about.
	And that means they have read the Monuments of Mars.
	And here's where the offer comes.
	Because there's a way tonight you can get that book for free!
	Huh?
	All you do is you call the 800 number I'm going to give you in a minute, and you ask and order the complete tape set of the things I've done at NASA, the UN, Ohio State, there's several tapes that chronicle this investigation as we've proceeded through it over the last 20 years.
	Oh yes.
	And as part of the package, Tim Crawford and the good folks there will throw in for free An autographed copy of the 2001 edition.
	Thousand pages of the Monuments of Mars with brand new photographs, new text, new everything.
	Including a connection of this investigation with Arthur and Kubrick's movie.
	So that's a really good offer.
	I think so.
	There's a number if you want to get in on this, because my writing hand, when I do these, as you know Art, it gets very, very tiring.
	So the number is?
	1-800.
	3-5-0.
	3-5-0.
	4-6-3-9.
	4-6-3-9.
	That's 1-800-3-5-0.
	4-6-3-9.
	4-6-3-9.
	3-9, yeah, OK.
	And those lines are available, what, 24 hours?
	24 hours.
	So you could even call right now.
	Operators are sitting.
	They're not standing.
	They're sitting there.
	That's what I would have said.
	They're there.
	OK.
	So you order the tape set, everything done.
	That goes back to the U.N.
	stuff, and you get... And my first NASA briefing at NASA Lewis.
	Where Dan Golden was working on nuclear propulsion 30 years before he got tapped by Bush to be the head of NASA and then he sat on everything for 10 years.
	The politics of this art are as important as the science, if not more so.
	Because unlike any other mystery, you know, with Egypt for instance, you can get on an airplane and Zahi, notwithstanding, you can go there and stand in the pyramids, go inside and find stuff.
	Even if he doesn't want you to.
	But with Mars, you've got to filter.
	You have gatekeepers.
	It's called NASA.
	And unless you can get on their good side, and get access to the good photographs, and access to the good analyses, your stop before you even start... I'm curious about something, Richard.
	I know that NASA imagines manned missions to Mars.
	In their present imaginings of a manned mission to Mars, Where would be the first place we would land?
	What is their current thinking about where we would land?
	Would it be Cydonia, that region?
	Would it be where they think they've seen all this vegetation?
	Would it be at one of the poles?
	Where would they go, Richard?
	Well, remember the key prerequisite for a man or a person mission in the 21st century would be to go where the water is.
	Because you need water for life.
	You need water for rocket fuel.
	You need water to split the oxygen to breathe.
	You need water to drink.
	And water would be where life might be.
	Well, some kind of life.
	Some kind of life, yeah.
	Maybe microbial life on Mars?
	Whatever, but I mean, water almost guarantees you to find something.
	That's right.
	Well, Odyssey, a few months ago, a couple months ago, gave us this stunning confirmation that Mars is dripping.
	There is water all over the damn planet, mostly around the South Pole, where it's frozen and it's cold.
	But as we predicted in not only the title paper we produced, but also in the 5th edition, I was actually going through my prologue to the 5th edition of Monuments, and I found out that I actually predicted in Monuments that Odyssey would find Water on Mars in these two locations.
	And so they have.
	So you believe them.
	A hundred and eight degrees apart, verifying the tidal model.
	That's right.
	So you feel that they would choose... They would choose to go to where the water is instead of a base camp.
	But, and here's the interesting but, if you have nuclear propulsion, you can go, mixing metaphors badly, loaded for bear.
	Which means you can take tractors, you can take airplanes, you can take gliders, you In other words, you can explore like you would in the Antarctic with high technology because you've got the means to take enough mass to do it the right way.
	Boy, that's something.
	So even if you don't land at Cydonia... You could get there?
	You could get there by driving across the surface with GPS and other navigational tools, satellites you would put into orbit, high-tech navigation that's being used on the space station right now.
	How bad are the dust storms on Mars, Richard?
	Well, they're not like in Nevada.
	The Nevada ones, you know, your 98 mile an hour winds the other night were really, really bad because we have a very dense atmosphere.
	Yes.
	The atmosphere on Mars is 1,100th of the density of the air that you and I are breathing.
	Yeah, but they seem to get enough dust in the air to show up very handily even on home telescopes.
	Oh, yeah, but it's very fine dust.
	It's not heavy stuff.
	It's not like sand.
	No.
	It's like talcum powder.
	And talcum powder, even thrown at you at 300 miles an hour, which is the strength of the highest winds, doesn't do much damage.
	300 miles an hour.
	Now, what it would do, of course, would be, you know, we actually know what this looks like because Viking and Pathfinder were on the surface during dust storms.
	And we know that even during the most severe storms during the Viking era, that you didn't get the kind of blinding clouds that, you know, reduced visibility, as Ramona was saying, The other day to zero.
	So, in other words, you could be in a dust storm and it would be nothing more than a cloudy day.
	Well, optically, it's a cloudy day.
	The particle density is very low because the atmosphere can't support a lot of stuff.
	It's not that thick.
	So, with the right technology and the right high-tech nav-aids like GPS or whatever from satellites you put in Mars orbit, Dust storms would not be much of a deterrent to exploring or surviving in a base.
	The key thing is to be able to live off the land, and that means you go where the water is.
	Now we know that there's water all over the place, including not far from Sedonia.
	Including not far from that incredible canyon, Valles Marineris.
	Including not far from the most incredible volcano in the solar system, Olympus Mons.
	So what's the most likely landing spot?
	Uh, somewhere where you'd have access to those three regions, I would think, which would be somewhere slightly north of the equator, probably on the edge of the Cricey Basin, which is about a thousand mile shot over to Sedonia, but maybe a few hundred miles to the canyon, and a few hundred miles to the volcano.
	Richard, is that where they're going to land in your movie?
	Big, long pause.
	Don't even bother to answer it.
	Alright, stay right there.
	You can throw people balls like that every now and then just for fun.
	listen this is close to will be right back people
	getting ready for the blues some are happy
	some are sad oh
	we gotta let the music play what the people need
	is a way to make them smile it ain't so hard to do it in the house
	gotta get a message get on through
	oh the river goes in everywhere everywhere
	music playing music playing
	music playing East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	And the wild card line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	To reach out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator.
	and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nile.
	It is indeed, and we're about to open lines for Richard C.
	Hoagland.
	I know that many of you have many questions based on an awful lot of what we've talked about tonight.
	So if you have something you would like to ask Richard about Mars,
	about the new photographs, about getting to Mars, whether we're going to go,
	the politics of it all, whatever, pick up a telephone.
	That's what they're for.
	Those were the numbers.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast.
	Don't move.
	Alright I want to briefly warn everybody again in the southern Nevada area the forecast for the day today is beginning to change and there could be a very dangerous situation developing with regard to wind like that's just what we need but they're talking about winds to 55 miles per hour now and that could change yet again but that change occurred about about midnight so if you're in this area please Be warned, we have what looks like another dangerous situation developing today.
	If it does, of course, we'll be giving you local information on the affiliate here, KNYE FM 95.1.
	I hope it doesn't get to that, but it certainly looks that way.
	That's what the late forecasts are saying.
	Alright, once again, from the mountains of Edgeworld.
	That's where he is.
	Edgeworld, I call it.
	Richard C. Hoagland.
	Richard, welcome back.
	You know, one night I want to do a show again on the physics that we have learned from decoding this geometry and mathematics of Cydonia.
	We've done it, but yeah, we should do it again.
	It is so relevant to the weather and the Larson Shelf and the melting of Mars and all of this that we published several years ago.
	I think it was 1998 we put the paper up on the web.
	Right.
	The Hyperdimensional 101 paper.
	And toward the end of that paper, if you want to go back and refresh your memory, you'll see I made a series of predictions based on the model that forecast these Earth changes that we're seeing right now.
	And we should probably go through that, because this idea of going to Mars to find out what's there is not just an academic question.
	It's not, oh, wouldn't it be nice to know?
	It's, I believe it's vital to our survival as a people to know, because whoever the Martians were, whoever built all this stuff, they were not primitives a la the Egyptians.
	They weren't Stone Age or Bronze Age equivalent.
	They were high-tech.
	I mean, you don't build a pyramid like that DNM thing.
	But they were, you know, their technology, high-tech, I agree with you, but I think high-tech in the sense of the pyramids at Giza, high-tech in the sense of the Coral Castle.
	High-tech in a sense that we don't yet understand, or at least the majority of us don't.
	Well, when I say high-tech, that's exactly what I mean.
	I don't mean, you know, current technology.
	I'm talking about really high-tech.
	A new application of... A new application of new energy sources.
	Yes.
	Ability to control gravity.
	Yes.
	Ability to control, maybe, time.
	Favorite subject.
	It is.
	Uh, ability to control the planetary environment.
	So, I mean, the obvious question that folks out there are obviously thinking about, and somebody will probably ask me tonight is, if these guys were such hot, you know what?
	How come they died?
	How come Mars is a desperate, desolated, you know, uh, glacial hell right now, as opposed to a garden planet like the Earth?
	By the way, Richard, I am so fascinated with time.
	The other day, I found out there was, uh, uh, the book uh... the christopher reese signed in somewhere in time the
	actual movie problem like and i got in a bidding war on ebay with some
	people and uh... i want to know whoever beat me by four seconds
	with a bit used to take
	uh... i am fascinated uh... no doubt uh... with with all the experiment
	and i've had a lot of disgusted which the palm of the many many many years ago
	which was he took a simple reading this which was nothing
	but an old thirty-three forty five seventy eight record changer
	Right?
	And he had it rotating at, I think, 33 and a third RPM.
	Little thin aluminum disc.
	I mean, remember how flimsy those turntables were?
	Oh yeah.
	Probably used a lot of them in the radio business.
	Tons of them, Richard.
	Too many, huh?
	Yeah.
	Anyway, he put a clock Above that disc.
	Right.
	With a metal shield between the rotating turntable.
	This would be something you could try at home if you still had a turntable, which nobody has anymore.
	That's right.
	Do try this at home.
	Everybody says you don't.
	This one is perfectly safe.
	Try it.
	And what he found was an ordinary Accutron, a bull of an Accutron watch.
	Remember those?
	With a little tuning fork that went back and forth?
	Of course.
	He found that when he just let it sit there, That after a few hours, it had lost several seconds compared to a control at another part of the lab.
	If you let it sit there for a day, it lost several minutes.
	Yeah, there's something about motion.
	There's no question.
	It's the rotational energy, for lack of a better term, in terms of angular momentum that ...is the key to understanding this physics.
	You know, I agree so much with that, Richard.
	And then when you look at that contraption down at the Coral Castle... That's right!
	...light bulbs start going off like crazy.
	I just went, oh my God, look at that!
	I know what that... I think I know what that is.
	I don't precisely know what it is, but I know sort of what it is.
	Well, if you look at Sidoni, you have these damn tetrahedrons all over the place.
	Either implicit, like the one I showed you in the middle of the strip now... Yes.
	Which, I mean, there's no doubt that's a tetrahedron, right?
	No doubt.
	No doubt.
	Okay.
	Listen, I've got... One more point.
	The math all over geometry says tetrahedron, tetrahedron, tetrahedron.
	Well, tetrahedrons rotating do weird, funny things in our dimension.
	Yep.
	And when I was at Carle Castle, and I saw that big ring, which you said looks like the Stargate, and you're right.
	Yes.
	By the way, he's in the other room listening on the CC radio even as we speak here.
	We have to flip a coin now.
	Would you like to field ten?
	Whoops, sorry about that.
	Yeah, I sure would.
	When she spotted that double tetrahedron that he had carved in the coral on the side of the castle above that bathtub, that's when the light bulb went off and I said, well of course, that's the only way he could have done it.
	He employed the hyperdimensional technology That he got from somewhere that mimicked what the Egyptians did, that mimicked what folks before the Egyptians knew how to do.
	That's how it hit me, Richard.
	And we closed the loop by going back to Mars, and the show I want to do is how we use this physics and technology to prevent the weird and nasty things that are going to happen on this planet from happening again.
	Yeah, well, you know, when we closed the loop, Richard, it's going to bring on many changes, like they say about MASH, you know, suicide brings on many changes.
	Well, revelation will bring on many changes, and I mean that kind of revelation.
	Listen, there's a lot of people that want to talk to you, Richard.
	Let's get to them.
	Alright, good.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland in New Mexico.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	Hi.
	Richard.
	Hi there.
	Not so much a question here.
	First of all, this is Mike from Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
	Yes, Mike.
	If you would take the latest picture on the face of Mars... The one that we've got up there?
	Everybody wanted to... Excuse me one second, Richard.
	I've got a million, million, million people asking, what pictures are you talking about?
	They came in late.
	So, just go to my website, go to Richard C. Hoagland's website, Enterprise Mission, and then just start scroll... You've got to click on the first item, which is entitled Laughingly.
	What is it, Richard?
	Do geologists dream of wind-blown sheep?
	And start down the page and you will see a development of the newest pictures that we're talking about tonight from Mars.
	All right, that's how you get there.
	Caller?
	Yes, the one that has the three pictures of the faces?
	Yeah.
	If you would take that latest picture and rotate it 180 degrees.
	Looks like a gray, right?
	Yes, it does.
	Yes, we've all seen that.
	Those of us involved in this biz for a while.
	So you're aware of that, Richard?
	Oh, yes.
	It does, in fact, look like a grave.
	Well, this gets to the heart of who would do a mile-long sculpture on a Martian desert?
	What's the purpose?
	What's the point?
	If the point is to memorialize our complicatedness, the involvement of the human species with others, in other words, I'm not rejecting at all the idea that there are a lot of people who see that image.
	And again, remember, this thing is eroded.
	When it was new, when it was pristine... Richard, I don't think it's a reach at all.
	Why do we memorialize presidents on the side of mountains here?
	I mean, we do it because that's what intelligent creatures do.
	Yep.
	Yep.
	Right?
	No, this caller is very perceptive, and we actually spotted this, and Cynthia and I discussed it at great length.
	Did you?
	Um, factoring the Malin image in 2001.
	Yeah, well, everybody might try it.
	Just look at it upside down, rotate it with your computer, or just look at it upside down, and you'll get it.
	It's a gray.
	There's no question about it.
	All right.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
	Hello.
	Yes, good evening, Art.
	Good evening, Richard.
	This is John Scottsdale.
	Ah, John, hi there.
	I'm well.
	I hope this finds you well.
	A couple of quick comments and then a question.
	First of all, Art, I appreciate your nod to Philip K. Dick, to Android's Dream of Electric Sheep.
	It's all hats off to Mike.
	I was the one in the theater at Blade Runner that was clapping at the end when the author's name was on the screen.
	Anyway, secondly, it's interesting that a little while ago you discussed the radiation problem.
	Yeah, I read this story.
	Anyway, it seems that they have ironically dusted off this albatross that was put out in the book Dark Moon, vis-a-vis we never went to the moon because the radiation is too intense beyond the Van Alen belts.
	Right.
	Interesting that they're not using this device.
	It's a sign of desperation of the owls.
	Yes.
	Alright, and one thing that I wanted to mention was the chlorophyll story, Art.
	Oh, yes.
	Scott, are you aware of this?
	Yes, I am.
	All right.
	Carol Stoker at NASA Ames.
	Yeah, we didn't even get to that.
	Tell us about the chlorophyll.
	Yeah, well, it's relevant to what John was saying.
	Carol Stoker, who was one of the old underground Martians that created the Mars conferences in Boulder, Colorado, many, many years ago.
	Yes.
	I saw the DePietro Molinar enhancements to the face of Mars for the first time.
	I was on my way back from the first shuttle launch.
	I was there at CNN when they launched the shuttle in 1981, and at this Mars Underground, Stoker and Chris McKay and a bunch of others, Penny Boston, Penelope Boston, they were these young grad students that basically didn't want the idea of going to Mars to die, so they set up this kind of underground conference, and it took off, and now they're in responsible positions in NASA.
	The other day, with a colleague whose name escapes me, at NASA Ames, presented at the second Astrobiology Conference at Ames last week, a paper, an analysis of the Pathfinder color imagery from 1997.
	And the Pathfinder camera, like the Themis camera, had 15 different spectral bands, wide spectrum color, and an ability to detect certain pigments or certain materials Provided you knew what you were looking for.
	So they programmed a computer to look at the Pathfinder Super Mosaic in these various spectral bands looking for the telltale signature of chlorophyll.
	Very important.
	It's an active molecule in green plants that allows them to convert sunlight into energy and break down the water.
	That would mean there's growing stuff.
	So they found six places in this image Close to the lander, four of which were on the lander, two of which were on the Martian surface, that look like the signature of chlorophyll.
	The interesting thing is, that as soon as Carroll was going to publish this paper, or it was announced that he was going to present this at a poster session at the conference, NASA put out a press release in Washington, NASA headquarters, basically raining all over their parade, saying that it wasn't what she was saying, and she didn't really mean it and all this, So we can see in this little counter-temp the war between the owls and the roosters.
	Carol is a rooster, and the guys who wrote the press release throwing cold water on it are, of course, representing the owls.
	So you have this war between those that want us to go and those that don't want us to do anything.
	Sounds like the push-me-pull-you, Richard.
	Yep.
	By the way, have you gone to see Senator McCain yet?
	No, I haven't.
	That was your mission, John.
	No, you said it was Bill Christensen at U of A in Tucson.
	Well, that was another name that would be useful.
	No, I have two.
	Now you have two.
	Alright, go get them, sir.
	Listen, so what... I mean, the chlorophyll thing really is important.
	In your opinion, what are the odds that what's been uncovered is in fact chlorophyll, Richard?
	Well, the Russians reported From ground-based studies, evidence of chlorophyll.
	I wrote in the New Edition of Monuments that Odyssey could find chlorophyll if they would ever give us a damn color image.
	And notice that we have no color images from Odyssey, and it's got a camera with exquisite color capability?
	Why aren't we getting color?
	Because it's not time.
	There is a fierce internal war.
	I was told by my Bush sources that there is this war going on between JPL and Arizona State and Johnson and headquarters and Ames and someone is trying to get everybody on the same page and there are fierce internal turf battles over who's going to control the dialogue and so what we're seeing is little efforts here and there like this Sedonia image from the Themis camera the same afternoon that O'Keefe makes his big speech on pioneering the future where NASA is going
	So we have to read between the lines.
	Now, if we're right, if the roosters are the ones putting out this new data, so we can all look at it and basically come to the assessments that you have tonight, Art, that there's something there to go for, then the next data point in this political war is going to be an infrared image, taken at night.
	Because if we got an infrared image of the Cydonia region, these structures, these putative structures that we've spent so many years studying, Are going to stand out like a sore thumb!
	And do you think they'll release this late on a Friday?
	Late on Friday?
	I would bet within the next month we're going to get a nighttime IR image of Cydonia.
	That would be something.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
	Hello.
	Good morning, Art and Richard.
	Good morning.
	Richard, my preface is this.
	I work in a magnetic resonance lab, and it's nice to hear a guest who explains how physicists and academicians fight so fiercely because either the money is so scarce or the money in the tenured offices are so few.
	And my question is this.
	Is it simpler and therefore easier for the United States to send a vehicle to Mars' surface which then unleashes or launches the sort of unmanned plane the military used in Afghanistan Well, there's also the national security questions of the United States and, you know, the global situation.
	This is not trivial information.
	because I ask the scientific question and beyond science there are the internal politics of NASA.
	Well there's also the national security questions of the United States and the global situation.
	This is not trivial information.
	If you think that what's going on in the Middle East is big news,
	between Arabs fighting Jews over who's really God, Just bring Martians into the mix.
	Stir well.
	Oh, yeah.
	You know, Richard, you're so right about that.
	That's usually my argument.
	Bring in Martians and stir well.
	Bring in any news that says it didn't go the way the creationists are certain it did.
	This is why I think we're seeing, even on the rooster's part, a lot of tiptoeing through the minefield.
	I can almost see your crowd scenes, Richard.
	I just, and I haven't, you know, I haven't read the script, Richard, but I think I know where the crowd scenes come from.
	Anyway, listen, hold on, we're at the bottom of the hour, alright?
	Stay right there, don't move.
	Will not.
	Okay, good.
	How about the rest of you?
	Can you see those crowd scenes, the ones that some of you might get in?
	And I'm just guessing.
	I'm just good at guessing.
	From the high deserts, where the winds, the devil winds, apparently are preparing to howl once again.
	They're already running at about 25 right now, and they don't crank until the sun peaks up over the horizon and adds the energy.
	It's going to be bad again today, they say.
	55 miles an hour, watch out.
	I'm Art Bell.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222 or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
	To recharge on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
	Top of the morning from the windblown high desert.
	I am Art Bell and Richard C. Hoagland is here.
	If you'll just stay right where you are, we've got another segment to go, and a lot of people want to talk to Richard.
	Don't move.
	Once again, in the mountains of New Mexico and Edgeworld, here's Richard C. Hoagland.
	So many people waiting to talk to you, Richard.
	Let's go ahead and... I know it's a marketing technique, but it's really a good marketing technique, I think.
	You know, if people order your tape series, They get with it a free, an autographed 2001 version of the monuments of Mars.
	And that's something you all should have.
	It is our future and I think it'll be a collector's item, so it's good to get it just for that.
	I think a lot of people do that.
	Number is 1-800-350-4639.
	is 1-800-350-4639.
	for us to including right now if you'd like to all right richard uh... we're trying to devote this as much
	Howdy.
	as i can to callers uh...
	west of the rockies you're on the air with richard c whole hello
	yes this is phil and phoenix
	hello phil howdy i'd like to uh... it's an honor to speak with both of
	you but i'd like to ask mr hoagland
	about uh...
	the fort and if any more new pictures have been taken and what do they show up at the
	Okay, the fort and the honeycombs.
	You know, that's a really perceptive question.
	Because if you go back to the website, do you have a computer, sir?
	I don't know if he does or not, but I do so.
	Okay, if you go up to the top image.
	Alright.
	Let's see, top image.
	Give me a second here, I've got a fast...
	Okay, here I am.
	You see the face?
	Yep.
	Down a little bit and all the way to the left.
	Okay.
	That object is the fort.
	What new observations, if any, with these images have you determined?
	Okay.
	Well, we got the fort from Malin.
	Remember, this is a separate group.
	This is Dr. Christensen and the Odyssey group at ASU as opposed to Malin Space Science Systems.
	It didn't look like it did in the Viking.
	Right.
	And it didn't seem to have any kind of artificial features that leapt out at you.
	Right.
	On this image, it's much more interesting.
	And the honeycomb is back.
	If you look to the bottom of it, on the far left, below the main structures.
	Yes.
	And you go in and zoom in.
	You have to save the image in the Photoshop or something and zoom in.
	Zoom in, right.
	You will see a series of layered, tiered areas that look like stacked playing cards that have been rippled back.
	Yes.
	Like they're edges that are scalloped.
	Step down, step down, step down.
	Right where the honeycomb is.
	So, again, this image from Odyssey appears to be much more faithful to the... Yeah, I agree, and I agree with that with respect to the face and the Tetrahedrons and the pyramids, all of it, Richard.
	The images, the latest images we have, seem to take us back, not forward to, oh gee, even more of a cat box, but they take us back to the original concept, which is pretty interesting since they're higher res.
	Yep, yep.
	They're about twice what Viking was.
	Yes, exactly.
	But there's a better grayscale.
	The technology is now CCD imaging as opposed to... Yeah, I know, but if the old rotten argument of NASA that the higher the resolution and better the image we get, the more your theory of all this is going to be blown up, I mean, that's just not proven to be true.
	Not at all.
	So... So, I didn't have time to do a lot of work on the fort, but we're going to do that, and again, to me, This is kind of like a placeholder.
	The real data we're expecting, politically and scientifically, if we're right about the... The color.
	...beakers and owls model... Yeah.
	...we're going to get the IR.
	Yeah.
	And they'll make all kinds of crazy claims.
	Forget the claims.
	Forget the caption that goes with this image.
	It's Looney Tunes, all right?
	Nature having an imagination.
	But the image speaks for itself.
	And that's the process of undisclosed disclosure.
	That's what I think, too.
	Just from even a layman's point of view, these images, as the last ones did, that I screeched so hard about, these images also speak for themselves.
	I agree with that.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Richard C. Holbrook.
	Yes, thank you.
	This is Thomas.
	I'm calling from Columbus, Ohio.
	Hello, Thomas.
	Hi, Tom.
	My question is, I want to switch lanes a little bit and go back to the nuclear reactor.
	Sure.
	There are two loops.
	There's a primary loop and there's a secondary loop and they're separate from each other.
	The primary is pressurized and the secondary is not.
	How is the secondary loop going to react under low gravity or even no gravity?
	Probably not a real change.
	It's in the engineering, it's in the materials, it's in the coolant selection of materials in the coolant.
	There's a lot of coolants that have been used in nuclear reactors in space over the last 20-30 years by the Russians, Topaz reactors.
	We have a couple of reactors that the DoD put into orbit for reconnaissance satellites.
	The Russians use them for radar reconnaissance.
	So it's not as if this is a brand new idea.
	It's just a brand new idea to do it big time with NASA to take civilians to Mars.
	And you believe they have, based on that speech, for example, made that commitment or are making it internally?
	Oh, definitely.
	Look, O'Keefe reiterated again today at a press conference at 8.30 this morning in Houston when he was introducing the new teacher in space, Barbara Morgan.
	They're going to reinstate the Well, isn't his mouth bigger than his wallet?
	Memorial. Oh yes, I heard that. And Barbara, who was her backup, she's now a full-fledged
	astronaut. So, yeah, this is going to go. She's got to take the astronauts and go through
	the whole training. Yep. But, you know, O'Keefe appears to me to be leading NASA under Bush's
	direction, or Cheney's, or whoever's running the show back there, in a new direction. Well,
	isn't his mouth bigger than his wallet? It depends on the American people. Ultimately,
	if they pull the Cydonia cat out of the bag, pun intended, guys, there will be unlimited
	You know we have enough money, Art, to do this.
	I know.
	It's all a matter of political will.
	The only thing that's going to get us to go with men and women to Mars is an ancient civilization.
	The lure of people, of intelligence, of heritage, of who the hell are we and what were we doing in that place.
	And I think we're marching very quietly down that road.
	And the pieces are being assembled.
	And my job, and those on Enterprise with me, is to show everyone how to connect the dots so we get there before they do.
	Gotcha.
	All right.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Richard.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	I've got a quick question for Richard.
	Do you think that the privatization of space exploration might have a significant effect on how fast we get to Mars?
	And whether or not we, as a race, will admit that there's anything there?
	Not in the short term, unless there was a dramatic breakthrough in the form of, you know, private anti-gravity, some hyper-dimensional technology that was put together with corporate money or private sponsorship or whatever.
	Because it looks like NASA has chosen the nuclear route, which means they're not going to disclose these technologies that Like the thing that flew over Arc, you know, and Ramona that night many years ago.
	Right.
	They're going to go the nuclear route, but that represents an order of magnitude improvement in capabilities of going anywhere.
	So, I frankly am less concerned with how we get there than we get there because I know what's waiting for us at the end of the journey.
	I have to agree with you.
	Thank you.
	Alright, thank you very much.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I'm Don from West Chicago.
	And I want to tell you, both of you guys do a great job.
	Thank you.
	I think it's because we enjoy what we're doing.
	Yeah.
	I think so.
	Being a baby boomer, I've enjoyed Walter Cronkite right up to what you're doing right now.
	And also, I think because of that generation being born roughly around 1950, that's 19.5 centuries AD.
	Which reminds me.
	Sir, thank you for triggering my memory here.
	Art, why is your FM radio antenna 195 feet tall?
	Because at 200 feet you have to start lighting it, Richard.
	See, FAA regulation.
	So why is it 197, 194, 193?
	at one ninety seven one ninety four one ninety three all written ninety-plus
	out but color do you have anything else you want to ask a fight
	Yes, that large area on the strip of photos from the show to BNM and the face at the top.
	Yes.
	In between, you know, there's a large area right above the tetrahedron, tetrahedral ruin.
	Yes.
	And I noticed on the global surveyor pictures, especially, that when you look at it from the west, it looks Oddly symmetrical.
	Not perfectly so, but when you look at each of the slopes of it, it looks like it maybe was symmetrical.
	Also looks like it took a huge pounding from the right.
	Almost a hole in it.
	I don't know.
	You can especially, again, see it from the Global Surveyor.
	Anyway, I was just wondering if you happened to notice that or had any comments on that?
	There's a lot of things in the Cydonia region that we haven't had time to look at carefully and plot out mathematically, but I would not be surprised if that's another reshaped or former ruin or something of that nature.
	I mean, this whole region is so interesting and is so exquisitely interconnected mathematically that I don't think we've mined maybe 10% of what's ultimately there.
	All right.
	On the international line, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
	Where are you calling from, please?
	Hello, Art.
	I'm calling from Norway.
	Norway?
	Wow.
	Norway.
	Yes, sir.
	Good morning.
	I called you previously, Art.
	I don't know if you remember.
	This is FRODE from Norway.
	I think I recall, yes.
	Thank you.
	Richard, I actually sent you a fax regarding the anti-gravity drive that has been Receiving a lot of attention on the internet lately.
	I don't know if you got that or even remember it.
	Our fax machine is temporarily down because with the move we only have one phone line.
	Quest really did me in.
	I had four at the previous location and now I only have one.
	So I have to decide tonight whether I listen to Art on the phone and talk to him or I'm on the internet.
	So until we get Quest to get us more lines, I'm not getting any faxes.
	Okay, with your permission, I could recap some of what I wrote in the fax.
	Well, I'll tell you, we don't have time now, but do me a favor.
	Do you have email?
	I do.
	Send it to LunarAnomalies, and they'll forward it to me via email.
	LunarAnomalies.com.
	Well, that would be it.
	That's not an e-mail address, Richard.
	No, that is an e-mail.
	No, Lunar Anomalies, well, is it?
	Yeah, if you go to www.lunaranomalies.com, there's an e-mail there.
	Okay, okay, okay.
	See, that's a web address.
	Hand it over to me.
	Well, Mart.
	Yes, sir.
	Do you have time for one more?
	Sure.
	You had Tim Valentine on a while ago.
	And he was talking about the lifter that he built and videotaped.
	I don't think that was my guess, sir.
	I don't recall that.
	Yes, it was on the first hour.
	He had built one of these.
	Oh!
	Yes, yeah, OK.
	This is the electro-gravitic technology.
	Thank you.
	And that was my subject in the facts.
	And what really was a pity was that Tim Valentine didn't give credit to Jean-Louis Nodin.
	Which has really been the driving force behind it.
	There's a French researcher who has done a lot of this.
	That's right.
	Right.
	That's right.
	A number of people complained about that.
	But I guess the technological aspects of it, though, nevertheless, have some validity, you both believe?
	Oh, yeah.
	Oh, yeah.
	No question.
	It goes back to T. Townsend Brown.
	Okay.
	All the way from Norway.
	Thank you very much.
	So short on time here.
	First time caller on the line.
	You're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	My name's Cameron, I'm calling from Toronto.
	Toronto, yes sir.
	While I've been sitting on the line here, somebody has actually mentioned exactly what I've been talking about, but to me, the tetrahedral rune, there's a round structure right above it, and the caller was saying it looks oddly symmetrical.
	To me, it's jumping right out at me, more clear even than the original face on Mars, as a skull.
	It looks eroded on the bottom half, but you can see the kind of pits of the eyes and the forehead very clearly.
	Well, we'll go take a look, but I'd be careful of these projections because it's so easy to see that kind of stuff that's anthropomorphic.
	I'm much more trustworthy of the geometry.
	Yeah, and I fully understand that.
	It's just that people do what people do and they They look at these things, and their brains try to make something out of them, and you do.
	I mean, in this case, you do, to really get to the depth that you've gotten and understand the mathematical relationships that prove artificiality in a good, good old scientific way, not just, ooh, wow, look at that!
	That's the important path to try and follow, and we'll do a program on that, Richard.
	It's so hard for people to grasp The whole concept when you try and do it technically.
	Well we won't touch too heavily on the mathematics but more on the implications of a physics that gives us the solar system and beyond and can do something about your weather.
	That'd be nice.
	It's amazing to me that we really do apparently have this other technology and we're not going to use it.
	I mean we're going to use big giant chemical rockets to blast nuclear engines into space and do it that way.
	I mean that's that's the old big dollar gotta fight your way out of Earth's gravity way and and uh... Well that's a whole program in itself.
	It certainly is.
	That's the decision and I've been discussing this with Steve Bassett in terms of the politics of this.
	It tells us a lot about the the idea that we're gonna have partial disclosure but not full disclosure.
	Sure.
	And certain things are going to be held back.
	I mean, if that was released into the public domain, our friend Eugene Maloff notwithstanding, and the coal fusion, and for the energy crowd, you can imagine what would happen economically to oil futures, and coal, and things like that.
	Yeah, and the markets are in enough trouble right now.
	And the whole Enron debacle.
	Yeah.
	Well, to the Rockies, you're on there with Richard C. Hoagland.
	Hello.
	Yeah, good evening.
	I just wanted to say, Richard, I was one of the first to send you a fax.
	I'm the guy toasting with that woman at the table on the Queen Mary.
	I sent you a fax, maybe in February, about the picture of the movie.
	Uh-huh.
	And I hope that you would really consider me.
	I'm really anxious to get into this film.
	I have prepared a file.
	Everyone who sent us a fax is in the file.
	Okay, so I'm the guy toasting... Don't worry, we're going to get back to you.
	The key thing is... My phone number and everything is on it.
	Have you read Monuments?
	I'm going to read it.
	I'm trying to get a hold of your 800 number, and they're busy as old dickens.
	I can't imagine why, but they're there for days, so just keep trying.
	Alright, that's 1-800-350-4639.
	1-800-350-4639, and yeah, obviously.
	the money to hundred uh... three five zero four six three nine one eight
	hundred three five zero four six three nine and you know obviously
	and we have plenty of time for it's jammed uh... just give it a try later today you know
	when you wake up or East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard C. Holmgren, not a lot of time, hello.
	Good morning, Art.
	Richard, thanks a lot for squeezing my call in.
	Sure.
	Richard, I'd like to know if there's any researchers who've published any papers, any book deals recently, any new theories pertaining to academia, anything that would strike a chord with the general public.
	You know, in layman's terms, nothing too preachy or academic.
	Well, we're doing this movie, which I think is going to strike a chord, and I'm working on a follow-on to Monuments called A Heritage to Mars, Remembering Forever, which is going to have some juicy things.
	Oh, that sounds really interesting.
	I'm hoping it will be, because we've got a lot of stuff that it's now time to put out there to let people, you know, take pot shots at me, over.
	Yeah, well, you're used to that by now.
	I'm a little used to it by now, yes.
	I must say, you must feel vindicated to some degree by these latest photographs, even though they're not ultimately what you want.
	I know you want the IRs and they're coming, but even with what we've received and seen tonight, Richard, You must feel somewhat vindicated.
	Well, I do, because, for instance, the tetrahedral ruin.
	Remember, I was on the show on April, which was my birthday, when that second image came out that showed this ruin?
	I remember.
	And Ed Dames was on.
	Yep.
	And you were so excited then.
	Well, now we've got a top-down view.
	There's no doubt it's a tetrahedral ruin.
	You can't get more tetrahedral than a tetrahedron in the middle of a mathematical complex of tetrahedra.
	So, yeah, I feel we're on the right track, the right direction.
	And I thank you, my friend, for sticking with us all these years, and the fun is just about to begin.
	Thanks, Richard, and good night.
	You too.
	Take care.
	He has been a very good friend over the years.
	Richard C. Hoagland, folks.
	That's it for tonight.
	Again, for those of you in the local Southern Nevada area, we've had a revision of the forecast, and we're looking at a possibility of 55 mile-an-hour winds later on this morning and into the day.
	So beware.
	Buckle up, everybody.

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