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April 4, 2002 - Art Bell

02:46:46

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Kevin Warwick - Cybernetics

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	Music playing...
	From the high desert and the great American Southwest.
	I wish you all a good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in Earth's 24 time zones.
	I'm Mark Bell and this is the Great American Southwest.
	Is coast to coast to coast to coast AM.
	Great to be with you.
	I was supposed to welcome a radio station at this hour, but... I don't know what I've done with welcome.
	Oh, here it is!
	Just had to look in the right pile.
	It's a WDWS in Champaign, Illinois.
	$1,400 on the dial in Champaign.
	Now there's an interesting name for a city.
	Where do you live?
	Oh, I live in Champaign.
	So, hello there to the General Manager and Program Director, Stevie J. Thank you very much for including us in the way above 500 stations now carrying this program.
	Well, I see a significant amount of conflict in the first two real scary stories there, you know, the real news.
	The real mainstream news.
	Big conflict.
	Get to that in a second.
	More night.
	Ghost to Ghost AM.
	This mood hit me last night somehow.
	About mid-show.
	The night before, was it?
	Ah, night before.
	Was it last night?
	Ah, getting old.
	Either way, Ghost to Ghost AM tomorrow night.
	Now, looking at the real scary stuff.
	What's going on, for example, in the Middle East.
	Under pressure to curb Middle East violence, President Bush urged Israel today to pull its troops back from Palestinian cities and dismiss Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat as a failed leader who, quote, betrayed the hopes of his people, end quote.
	Now, What I don't get here is a U.S.
	envoy, this is a second story, a U.S.
	envoy was sent to meet Friday with Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat after the Palestinians and Israel welcomed a new peace initiative by U.S.
	President George W. Bush while Israel continued its offensive in the West Bank.
	Israeli forces are conducting house-to-house searches in Nablus and other cities, and they're just going to do as much as they can, I guess, which is probably what I told you last night.
	I think we probably told Israel, more or less, you know, go in there, you have so long, go in and rot them out, and then you've got to stop.
	Now, of course, the risk in all of that is a war.
	of the likelihood probably slim in my estimation.
	In other words, I don't think this is going to end that way.
	However, eventually it will.
	They say, the FBI has failed to comply with a presidential order that requires agents who work with the nation's most closely guarded secrets to disclose details of their money finances.
	Now, that's not good.
	I mean, that's how you find spies.
	I mean, spies are the people who otherwise wouldn't have a lot of money.
	They're civil servants, right?
	And, you know, if they have a yacht and they have a house in Zurich or something, you know, and a little cottage down in the Bahamas somewhere, these are reasons you might want to look at them.
	Right?
	Well, they haven't been doing that.
	Shocking details of how two bored teenagers Butchered husband and wife Dartmouth College professors in their home in a plot to steal their ATM cards.
	There's good reason to kill people, right?
	Spilled out in court today.
	Case ending with the two getting life sentences or 25 to life.
	18-year-old, 17-year-old get 25 to life.
	Now, in the other news, This just broke today on MSNBC.
	You can read all about it if you want to.
	In an extraordinary case of looking in the right place at the right time, astronomers recently spotted an asteroid previously detected 50 years ago.
	Observing the asteroid gave the researchers enough information to predict the asteroid's path over the next eight centuries.
	And to discover a chance that the kilometer-sized space rock may collide with Earth on March 16th of 2880.
	Well, not too many of you are going to get real concerned about something that far ahead, huh?
	You'll be dead, buried, and so will your children, and maybe theirs, and so forth.
	So, in a lot of ways, for a lot of people, even though March 16th, 2880 is going to be a bad day for Earth, one would imagine by then we're going to figure out how to alter its path that really is headed.
	You know, it's actually a slim chance, but there is a 20 minute window of time when it could hit.
	And if it did hit, it could kill millions of people.
	But you know, still, 2880 is a very long way away.
	The thing that you have to worry about, and what they don't tell you in these articles, you know, is a big deal today, I guess.
	Some of the major networks reported this major collision at 2880.
	Worry more about the ones that you don't hear about.
	The ones that you hear about a day or two after passage.
	The news stories will always begin the same way.
	It was discovered today that two days ago, Earth had a close call.
	That is inevitably the way the wire stories begin, and the fact of the matter is, you don't really see the ones that are going to hit you.
	Just the way it is with a bullet, you know?
	Because actually, you don't hear the bullet that hits you.
	It just goes thunk, and then, of course, you're concerned with the thunk, and you're not hearing the bang at all.
	Check this out, folks.
	The Food and Drug Administration has cleared the way for Applied Digital Solutions, Inc.
	to begin selling an implantable chip that would contain personal identification and medical data, said the company on Thursday.
	It said it had received a letter indicating the FDA does not consider the chip a medical device under its jurisdiction.
	Hmm.
	VeraChip.
	A small device about the size of a grain of rice emits a radio signal and has been derided by some for its, quote, big brother, end quote, implications.
	Applied Digital has said it could prove invaluable in emergency situations.
	The patient is either unconscious or can't otherwise reveal information.
	It should sell for about $200.
	Now, you're going to have to get in line to get yours.
	A scanner used to read the information contained in the chip would cost between $1,000 and $3,000.
	So here come the chips, folks.
	And while we're on that subject, you may recall we had a Professor Kevin Warwick on the show.
	You may or may not have heard that program.
	And so let me read you the Associated Press story on Professor Warwick.
	Surgeons in Oxford have carried out a groundbreaking operation on a cybernetics professor so that his nervous system can be wired to a computer.
	Professor Kevin Warwick, the world's first cyborg, Part human, part machine, hopes that readings can now be taken from the implant in his arm of electrical impulses coursing through his nerves.
	So, in other words, when we had him on the program, this is a fascinating story.
	You know, when we had him here, he said, well, he was going to do it.
	He was going to have the operation, and the operation was coming, you know, in the next week or two, and I said, well, We did a great program on the subject, and I said, well, Professor, when the operation is done, how about coming back?
	Well, it's done.
	And now he is the world's first cyborg.
	And tonight, he will be back.
	And in the meantime, you can go get your own.
	As a matter of fact, after this announcement by The chip maker shares of Applied Digital rose 4 cents or 8% to 52 cents in Thursday trading on the Nasdaq stock market and it's tough to rise on the Nasdaq on any day.
	So I guess we all may be in line eventually.
	Now the professor of course has gone far beyond Verichip.
	But it is interesting that again on the day that we're going to be interviewing the professor, the FDA has cleared the way for any or all of us to get chips implanted in our bodies.
	Oh gee, I can't wait!
	Now, I don't know whether I should be telling you about this or not, because I don't want to You know, I thought about this, that I might cause more of it by talking about it, but I'm going to err on the side of caution.
	I'm getting a lot of emails, a disproportionate number of emails, from people who suddenly feel a catastrophic event of some sort is imminent.
	And most of them are not saying what, and then you get the usual sprinkling of earthquakes and volcanoes and all the rest of it.
	Asteroids, who knows?
	But just a disproportionate, suddenly all these emails from diverse, different kinds of people saying that they feel something catastrophic is imminent.
	And so I'd be remiss in not mentioning how many of those I'm getting.
	I suppose I could bring more by just mentioning it, but, well, Here's one as an example, and I intentionally picked the one I picked here because of who these people are.
	They say they're pagans.
	And it reads, Art, many in the pagan community are suffering from disturbing or violent dreams for the last two weeks.
	I'm a member of several online pagan groups.
	And the question has been floating around only within the last couple of days regarding the quality of dreams and sleep of many pagans lately.
	And I'm sure a lot of you out there Christians say, well, they're pagans, of course they don't sleep well.
	Anyway, the response to these queries have been quite disturbing.
	It appears that for two weeks prior to 9-11, many pagans were having disturbing and or violent dreams.
	Well, they're having them again.
	Most of us are having very vivid, vivid dreams, or are unable to sleep at all.
	Some of us fear the current trend in dream disturbance means something absolutely horrible is on the horizon, particularly with what's going on in the Middle East.
	The Earth is screaming in pain at what's happening.
	She's letting those of us tuned in to her know something horribly is wrong, and we may just find that in the next few days Our world will have radically changed yet again.
	So I thought I would just bring you one of the unusual ones, and there it is, from Pagans.
	Now it may be, you know how I've always said that I believe that cloning is about to either take place or has already done so.
	This is a pretty interesting story, and it comes from Dubai.
	You know where Dubai is, right?
	A woman taking part in a controversial human cloning program for infertile couples is now eight weeks pregnant, according to Dr. Servino Anatori, the well-known Italian doctor involved in the cloning project banned in his home country, and of course here in the USA.
	Speaking on his flying visit to the UAE, That would be Dubai, to lecture at the conference on future of genetic engineering and debate on cloning programs throughout the world.
	He revealed, quote, our project is at a very advanced stage.
	One woman among the thousands of infertile couples in the program is eight weeks pregnant.
	He was replying to a question on the status of his project.
	Which he had outlined last year along with another doctor, a Kentucky-based infertility expert.
	He refused to reveal the country from which the woman comes.
	He said we have about 5,000 infertile couples in the project now.
	So, not having to read between the lines here, it would appear as though the first public clone Is on the way.
	In the cooker.
	And I wonder what you all think about that fact.
	In other words, it was inevitable.
	I knew it.
	You knew it.
	Everybody knew the clones were coming.
	But now in less than nine months, one of them is going to be here.
	Maybe it'll just be a sort of a happy, normal child.
	But I have severe reservations.
	Severe reservations.
	Well, here's a cheery little story.
	Entitled, it's from ABCnews.com.
	Polluted coastline.
	Check this out.
	Nearly half of all the waters off the coast of the United States.
	That would be everywhere, folks.
	East Coast, West Coast, everywhere.
	Gulf.
	Nearly half of all waters in the U.S.
	are so damaged that they cannot fully support aquatic life.
	For instance, more clams once came from the Great South Bay on New York's Long Island than any other place in the U.S., but the harvest has deteriorated steadily since 1976.
	Certain clamming areas now are closed after rain because of runoff.
	EPA gave poor marks to the Northeast and Great Lakes, the worst coastal waters it said, were in the Gulf of Mexico, where in some places there is no fishing at all.
	Best marks went to the waters off the southeast and west coasts, but those were graded only as fair.
	So in other words, half of all our coastline is polluted to the degree that so damaged that they cannot fully support aquatic life anymore.
	Now it seems to me that I'd be a pretty big bell going off.
	This one is not, of course, from Mother Nature.
	This is not some long cyclic thing that occurs.
	This is all of us.
	You know, what we're dumping into the oceans, one way or the other.
	Either directly or indirectly, you know, most things make their way to the ocean, right?
	And so the hand of man directly is involved here.
	You think about that.
	Half our entire coastlines can no longer fully support aquatic life.
	And that's from us.
	That's not from some mysterious new bug or algae or bloom or whatever.
	That's just from us.
	Something to think about.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello.
	I have an idea for an electric car you might like.
	You do?
	Using pistons.
	An electric car using pistons?
	Yes.
	Really?
	Why would you have pistons, out of curiosity, in an electric car?
	Well, I'm no mechanic, but I believe it would give you more horsepower.
	Why?
	Well, because you have more things driving the motor.
	Well, what I'm saying is that a piston in a combustion engine is usually driven up and down by the little explosions caused by the gasoline, right?
	Yes.
	So if it was just electric and you had to drive the pistons, wouldn't you be doing extra work?
	You could use magnetism.
	If you put a magnet on the end of the piston and an electromagnet at the bottom of the cylinder, you alternate the magnetic current and it moves the piston up and down.
	You know, how old are you?
	Fifteen.
	Fifteen.
	You have just said something fairly important, possibly.
	Well, I'm the caller that gave you the idea to use time warp field generators to speed up the decay of nuclear waste.
	Oh, really?
	Okay, then I remember you.
	Well, I must say, you know, when you think about that a little bit, I wonder, you know, if you modify what he said a little bit.
	So he would use electromagnets.
	Well, that might be one direction, or another direction simply might be permanent magnets.
	What if pistons were outfitted with...
	Very, very strong magnets, whether they be electromagnetic or whether they be simply magnetized.
	Very strong permanent magnets.
	As the piston did its work, it would attract, repel, attract, repel, attract, repel, wouldn't it?
	And so, gosh, I wonder if that young man... Some of you great thinkers out there might apply some of your thinking to what he just said.
	He's kind of got an idea there.
	I just suddenly got my head ticking.
	You know, there might be some sort of magnetic aid.
	I'm not talking here about some sort of a machine, mysterious machine, that'll get, you know, 5,000 miles to the gallon, but you might suddenly get a whole lot better mileage if you use magnetism in the piston process.
	What an interesting thought.
	Thank you, young man.
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	In the night time with open lines between now and the top of the hour and then the professor who's got the implant in his arm now.
	Sweet dreams are made of this.
	Who am I to disagree?
	I travel the world and the seven seas.
	Everybody's looking for something Some of them want to use you
	Some of them want to get used by you When the wind blows, the candles are out
	So rock-a-bye baby, in the tree park When the wind blows, mmm
	Well Jack be nimble, Jack be quick Jack jumps over the candlestick
	He jumps so high up above He landed in the cradle of love
	Well rock-a-bye baby, in the tree top When the wind blows, the cradle will rock
	So rock-a-bye baby, in the tree top, when the wind blows.
	Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from West of the Rockies at 1-800-3-4.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	And the wild card line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	To reach Art on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-825-727-1222.
	We've got to wonder if the wind is not just about blow and our cradle is not just about rock.
	Anyway, stay right where you are, open lines, straight ahead.
	And into the night we go.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	All right.
	This is Jenny in St.
	Petersburg.
	Jenny?
	Mm-hmm.
	How are you?
	Okay, Jenny.
	What's up?
	Well, I was a little disturbed about the email you got from the pagans.
	You know, I think that a lot of people confuse Wiccans and pagans with Satanism.
	Yeah, well, I don't care.
	Who they are.
	All I'm telling you is I'm getting a mass of emails, not just from pagans.
	I just picked that one out because it was interesting.
	Why do you find any prediction from them to be very disturbing?
	Because pagans really try to attune themselves with the forces of nature.
	Yes.
	And so they may be picking up something really heavy coming.
	Well, yeah, that's what they're saying.
	I mean, there is a disturbance in the force.
	They say the motto of pagans is do no harm.
	It's really different from people who are satanists.
	And I guess the name kind of frightens people, but I myself have been picking up some things for a few days.
	I'm a real novice myself.
	You too, huh?
	I've been picking up something the last few days.
	Yeah.
	The other day I had a really strong vision of someone on a mountain who was really Evil looking down on... I don't know, it was a little disturbing, but I would think that if you're getting emails from pagans who say that they are having visions... You'd pay attention to that?
	I would pay attention pretty seriously to it.
	All right, gotcha.
	Thank you very much.
	Well, just a lot of people.
	I mean, it's not just pagans.
	I read one because I just wanted to read a representative email.
	I'm getting a lot of emails, you know, and so you think to yourself, well, Do you report these to everybody?
	And so the answer is yes.
	It doesn't mean anything is going to happen.
	But on the other hand, it doesn't mean it won't either.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes, there you are.
	Oh, there I am.
	OK.
	Where are you, dear?
	I'm calling from Spokane, Washington.
	OK.
	And, um, I worked up at the Dart facility at Los Alamos National Laboratory.
	You did or do?
	I did.
	Did, okay.
	I was fired for blowing the whistle.
	Oh?
	Yes.
	I worked up there, and, uh, I turned the, uh, the contractor in, not only for shoddy construction... Don't tell me any names or anything.
	I won't, because I don't want to be in deep doo-doo.
	Yeah.
	But also for, uh, safety concerns.
	And they were shut down for 15 days on the safety concerns.
	And I don't know how much I want to say over the air, but with the worry and everything from the Pagan email, I'm also a Pagan.
	Oh, you too?
	Yes.
	And what they're saying is true.
	I've been having nightmares about this facility.
	I have written to the President.
	All of my mail is being sent back to the Department of Defense.
	So do you know about something that's going to happen?
	Yes, I do, but I would much rather stay off the line.
	Uh...
	Well...
	It's not gonna be a beauty sight.
	It's not going to be pretty.
	Okay, I'll tell you what, based on what you've already said and identified, I won't take it any further on the air, and the way you're going to have to do this is contact me by email.
	And then I'm going to have to make a decision.
	Now, I'll tell you something, folks.
	The other day, about a week ago, some guy called, you may recall, and really put me in a jam.
	I mean, he said, I know why holes that are greater than 10,000 feet drilled into the earth are classified.
	That's what he said.
	And I said, oh, why?
	You know, I want the answer on the air, really.
	And he said, well, if I give you the answer, it would hurt the national security of the U.S.
	Do you still want me to tell you?
	I sit there and, you know, what are you going to do, right?
	You're on the air nationwide and beyond to half the world, or the whole world.
	And what are you going to say?
	Oh no, let's go ahead and slaughter the security of the U.S.
	Go ahead and tell me.
	So I said no.
	Send it to me in email.
	Well, it never showed up.
	So what do you expect?
	Do you expect that I was told a tall story on the air just so somebody could hear the sound of their own voice rattling through a speaker?
	Or do you think the guy really knew something and did send an email which then got intercepted?
	We know they can do that, right?
	Or that it was just, you know, so I don't know.
	And I don't know what you do with calls like the one I just had, either.
	Something so horrible that she doesn't want to talk about it, and she has inside knowledge.
	All I can say is email me, or... Yeah, email me, I guess.
	Who do you trust anymore?
	Do you trust your email?
	Probably not.
	Is it being monitored?
	Is my email being monitored?
	Oh, you can bet your bottom dollar my email's being monitored.
	You know, they've got that big computer and it can look everywhere, you know, telephones, email, all the rest of it.
	We all know what's really going on.
	And even if it's not legally going on here in this country, England Does not quite have the same laws we do and they could monitor something from the U.S.
	and then of course the information would make it back to the U.S.
	so technically they've not violated the domestic law against listening to us all.
	But I'm well aware that it's monitored so it's chancy saying email but I don't know what else to do.
	First time caller line, you're on the air, hi.
	Hello?
	Hello?
	Yes, hello.
	Okay, I'm from Peru.
	Oh, here and now?
	Yeah, here and now.
	And a station you're listening to?
	Isn't that awesome?
	Listen, I have... No, no, no, say the station.
	Oh, oh, um, K9.
	K9, there you go.
	Please.
	K-N-Y-E, 95.1.
	And thank you for the t-shirts and the coffee mugs.
	Oh, you got the t-shirts?
	I got one.
	My ex-husband got one.
	Yes.
	Oh.
	Parked at the grocery store.
	It's wonderful.
	Uh, yes, we're out there giving away.
	You guys really are.
	I got a whole bunch of things to tell you.
	Alright, fire away.
	You're awesome, for one.
	Oh, thank you.
	Secondly...
	I saw the balloon go over your house that night.
	Oh, you did?
	Yes.
	Oh, thank God.
	You were not imagining it.
	It was at 2 o'clock in the morning.
	My wife rushed in and said, there's a hot air balloon coming over the house.
	I went, oh my God, at 2 o'clock in the morning.
	Sure enough, there it was.
	You could hear the guy going... So it probably went over by the flats.
	It must have been so cool to take a balloon ride at that time of the morning with a big ol' full moon out there.
	Yeah, it was beautiful.
	Yeah.
	Anyway, okay, and the Earth changes.
	Yes.
	I'm coming home from Las Vegas.
	I go in every day.
	Uh-huh.
	And I was coming home late, so it was dark.
	Just coming over the pass on 160.
	Right.
	As you're descending that pass summit, I thought I saw a cloud.
	And I thought, well, maybe it's smoke, whatever.
	And it turned out to be the car that my truck got pelted.
	And I thought, what am I going through?
	Well, now your truck got pelted with what?
	Oh, I'll tell you in a second.
	I'm going, what is this?
	Is it raining?
	Is that hail?
	Well, pretty dark.
	So I waited until I got home.
	I got pelted with bees for two miles.
	Did you say bees?
	Bees.
	Insects.
	Up on the mountain between here and Vegas?
	Yes.
	Two mile long... Two miles of bees?
	Two miles of bees.
	Boy, I would put the metal... pedal to the metal there and I'd be through... I'd be through two miles.
	I had no idea what I was going through at the time.
	Oh my God.
	Of course, I didn't stop.
	I just kept going, but... Good move.
	We're talking about changes.
	Yes.
	And if you can imagine, first of all, bees don't swarm at night.
	Right.
	And so what's going on?
	Beats me, but you know, as you said, I've been getting a lot of emails and a lot of people are having a feeling now, close in, that something's coming pretty quick.
	And I do too.
	A lot of us here in Vegas are impromptu.
	Well, you tell them out there, we live in a pretty strange place here, don't we?
	Well, we most certainly do.
	Absolutely.
	Strange and wonderful.
	All right, well, thanks for giving the station a plug, and have a good morning.
	You're welcome.
	Take care.
	All right, that was a KNYE listener.
	That's 95.1.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Good evening, Art.
	It's your clear jet Tim from up here in Cold Lake, Alberta.
	Yes, sir.
	What's up?
	Not much, other than the phone lines tonight are doing weird things, aren't they?
	Phone lines always do weird things.
	The thing with over in the Middle East, that horrible situation, you know, we've talked about Nostradamus quite a bit in the past.
	But when they went into Nablus, just in the last few days, the first thing that jumped to mind was Mabus.
	You know, we've talked a lot about how we beat that to death.
	But I just wondered if there was a correlation between Mabus and Nablus, because at the end of that Quan Train, which is 62, he talks about, we'll run the comet, in other words, the passing of a comet.
	And we actually do have that this period of time.
	Well, you know, we've got comets right now, more and more every day, and comets portend change.
	They do, and he also says that, he states that, he gives the word 100, 100 hand thirst hunger, which is what is going on in Palestine right now.
	They're cut off from food and water, basically.
	But 100, if you use 100, as he has done before, before the end of the year or after the end of the year, 100 days would put us at April the 11th.
	And with what you were saying earlier at the bottom of the hour about how these Different groups are having dreams and whatnot?
	Yes.
	You know, because I get thousands of emails a day, and so I get to sort of monitor what's... I get to take the temperature, you know, of everybody as I read the emails, and I'm just getting a sudden rash of, oh, something's going to happen kind of emails.
	Yeah.
	This is a little vague.
	All he talks about is the vengeance is seen, and we're seeing vengeance now, and he just talks about animals and beasts.
	A horrible defeat, so you know, it's kind of wide open for interpretation.
	Yeah, I was going to say, that could be interpreted in almost any way at all, and almost laid onto any event that would occur one way or the other.
	So I'm not ignoring these, and maybe it's just sort of a 9-1-1 flashback people are having, you know, some sort of effect or another.
	Or it could be the real McCoy.
	There's really no way to tell.
	East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Good morning.
	Well, that is, if you turn your radio off, you're going to be on the air.
	I got it.
	Okay, good.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Marshville, Pennsylvania.
	I'm listening to 1210, The Big Talker.
	Yes, sir, out of Philadelphia, WPHT.
	You got it.
	First of all, I just wanted to say I listen to you as much as I can every night.
	I purposely go out and Pick up some late night food to listen to on purpose.
	Really?
	Yeah, it's a lot of fun.
	It's a nice way for me to get away from my business and just drive and just listen to all the cool things that are going on.
	I understand that.
	Night driving is my favorite in all the world.
	I would rather drive at night than during the day any day.
	Absolutely.
	No traffic.
	Nobody's around.
	That's it.
	What I wanted to say was about last night when you had the GIS on.
	Yes.
	Have they ever thought of having their electronic voice phenomenon test going on during a autopsy.
	Oh brother.
	I know that sounds kind of sick, but... Well, yeah, it is kind of sick, actually.
	But, yeah, I mean, it's a pretty good suggestion.
	But, you know, it really... What I get from that night and the night before and all the rest of it is that we definitely survived death with some form of consciousness.
	And I don't know about you, but the last place I'd want to be is present at my own autopsy.
	I don't even listen.
	I don't even listen to my own shows.
	Right.
	It's much less wanting to sit there and stand there, or hover there probably more likely, and watch somebody delve into my insides.
	Yeah, it should be a curiosity testing whether or not the person's going, no, no, don't do that!
	No doubt revealing the ravages of all my bad habits and commenting on them as they come upon them.
	No, thank you.
	Absolutely.
	Hey, can I get a quick plug-in for my business?
	Is that okay, or do you against that?
	Well, when you put it that way, no, I don't want to do it.
	I mean, if you call up and say, well, you know, I work for so-and-so, that's alright, but you can't sort of directly plug a business, otherwise it's called a commercial.
	True, true.
	It is my own business.
	Alright, so for the rest of you there, think about it this way.
	If you preface it by saying, can I plug my business, Then you sort of put it out of bounds.
	If you say, well, you know, I work for so-and-so, then you've said something personal.
	But when you're saying, can I plug my business, no, that's more like a commercial.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	How are you tonight, Art?
	Pretty OK.
	All right.
	I have two fantasy authors, two fantasy interviews I'd love to have heard you do.
	And they would be?
	Unfortunately, both men are dead.
	They're dead?
	Well, that doesn't mean on this program that we can't interact in some way with them.
	So what do you have in mind?
	Luce Lemoore.
	That's going to be hard.
	All right.
	And Robert Heinlein.
	Robert Heinlein.
	Well... Have you ever read anything by either one of the gentlemen?
	They're both authors.
	Yes, of course.
	And I know Luce Lemoore in the latter part of his career was starting to write about The unusual.
	Put it that way.
	Yes.
	Well, that's because people who investigate the unusual and are open-minded have no other path to travel.
	This is true.
	So, you know, I can't make any promises, but, you know, I get all kinds of guests here, so you never know.
	You never know.
	I'm reminding you again, tomorrow night is Ghost to Ghost.
	Now listen to me closely.
	We only take the best, scariest ghost stories.
	And there's such a plethora of ghost stories available that we can afford to be choosy.
	So if you only have a mediocre ghost story, don't call.
	If you have a premium ghost story, then call.
	That'll be tomorrow night, ghost to ghost, all the way.
	If you have encountered You don't want to save the living dead because they're not really living, not in the physical sense.
	But if you encountered that which was alive in the physical sense at one point, then tomorrow night is your night.
	First time caller line, you are on the air.
	Hello?
	Hi.
	My name's Mark.
	I'm actually a pretty new listener to your show.
	Well, that's okay, and that's good.
	Where are you?
	St.
	Louis, Missouri.
	St.
	Louis.
	KPRS.
	Yes, exactly.
	Yes, sir.
	I just kind of wanted to make a comment about... It had to touch on... You guys were talking about cloning.
	Oh, yes.
	Oh, we may have our first clone in the cooker.
	Well, this is... I just kind of wanted to throw this out there.
	Go ahead.
	And I could be crazy.
	This is just a hunch of mine.
	I myself am a Christian, so... I don't know if you've heard of the books, um... He hung up?
	He hung up?
	Maybe he was going to refer to a book that he suddenly fled his mind.
	Actually, there's a lot of talk we could do about the first clone being in the cooker.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	How are you?
	I'm okay, sir.
	I'm listening to 1510 WLAC out of Knoxville, but I'm in Fletcher, North Carolina.
	Well, that tells you how far it goes.
	Yes, sir.
	First of all, I want to thank you for taking the calls the way you do without going through a screener.
	That's great.
	I don't use screeners.
	I don't believe in them.
	And I'll be quite honest with you.
	I don't know if you've tossed out a subject for the evening or not, but I'd like to bring something up.
	That happened to me in the mid-fifties.
	I'll be 60 in August.
	Yes, sir.
	So I grew up in the fifties, and this was in Miami, Florida.
	I'm a little nervous.
	I understand.
	No, just go ahead.
	We lived in a section of Miami called Allapattah.
	It was on 51st Street, and our house sat in the back of our lot.
	The neighbors to the rear of us, their house was in the front, so their backyard was like Uh, the playground for all the local kids, the neighbor kids and whatnot.
	Gotcha.
	Uh, he was a contractor.
	The man, his name was Hunt, but it's immaterial.
	He was a contractor and he had different things set up in his backyard.
	One of the things he had was a long stack of pipes, clay pipes.
	Forgot if they were black or that red clay color, but they were banded together.
	Yeah.
	And they had chased me off of this a couple of times.
	Which made you all the more curious, I'm sure.
	We only have about a minute.
	Anyway, one day I thought I was going to see how far I could reach down in there, and I fell in.
	And there was nobody at my house, and the neighbors to the side of us.
	I went down head first, and my feet was below the top of the pipes.
	I was yelling for help, and one lady, she pulled me out.
	I never thanked her, because back then, Art, I was more concerned about getting in trouble.
	Yeah, I understand that.
	Who do you think that lady was?
	Well, I think she was my guardian angel.
	But she was the only lady home, and the jealousy just happened to be open in her kitchen.
	So should you have known her?
	I mean, she was there in a yard.
	I was yelling for help.
	I was yelling for help.
	And it was only your feet sticking out?
	My feet weren't even sticking out.
	They were below the level of this lip.
	Oh, brother.
	I was down in there against the dirt.
	What's your first name?
	Her name was... No, your first name.
	Well, I first needed Norman.
	Norman.
	Right.
	So the Norman baby in a pipe.
	Oh.
	All right, listen, I'm out of time.
	The show is over at this hour.
	I've got to go, and we've got to get a call in to Great Britain.
	Because he's gone and done it.
	Professor Warwick has gone and had the operation.
	Details coming up.
	Lady Bird, come on down.
	Kissed the sun, touched the moon, but he left me much too soon, his ladybird, he left his ladybird
	Ladybird, come on down, I'm here waiting on the ground Ladybird
	Be inside the sand, smell more touch, there's something inside that we need so much
	The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sound, or the strength of an oak when it moves deep in the ground.
	The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
	Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
	To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing.
	To have all these things in our memories whole.
	And they use them to count us to five!
	Yeah!
	Five!
	Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	On this trip, just for me.
	Wanna take a ride?
	Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	The wild card line is open at 1-800-618-8253.
	And to reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	free international line call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
	How much coincidence do you believe in?
	This is an interesting program for a number of reasons.
	A news story dated April 4th.
	FDA clears implantable chip for market in the U.S.
	That's right.
	Clears implantable chip for market in the U.S.
	The FDA has cleared the way for Applied Digital Solutions to begin selling an implantable chip that would contain personal ID and medical data.
	You can get your chip for about $200.
	I don't know what it's going to cost to get good in you, but about $200.
	The reader costs between $1,000 and $3,000.
	It'll be a little transmitter inside of you.
	So, on the NASDAQ, their stock rose 4 cents, or 8% to 52 cents.
	We had, I don't know now, a couple of weeks ago, Professor Warwick on, Here's another Associated Press story.
	How coincidental, huh?
	Surgeons in Oxford have indeed carried out a groundbreaking operation in cybernetics.
	In a cybernetics professor, actually.
	A cyborg now, I guess.
	Isn't he?
	So that his nervous system can be wired directly to a computer.
	And the Associated Press story goes on from there.
	But when we had him on last, he said he was going to have the operation.
	And tonight we actually have him here.
	To talk about the operation, because it's all over.
	Dr. Kevin Warwick is, in fact, a professor of cybernetics at the University of Reading, UK, where he carries out research in artificial intelligence, control, and robotics.
	His favorite topic is pushing back the frontiers of machine intelligence.
	Kevin began his career by joining British Telecom, with whom he spent the next six years.
	At 22, he took his first degree at Aston University, followed by a PhD And research posed at Imperial College London.
	He subsequently held positions at Oxford, Newcastle, Warwick Universities before being offered the chair at Reading at the age of 32.
	Oh, that's definitely prodigy age for that kind of position.
	Kevin has published over 300 research papers.
	His latest paper, Back in the Mind of the Machine, gives a warning of a future in which machines are more intelligent than humans.
	He has been awarded higher doctorates, both by the Imperial College and the Czech Academy of Sciences Prague.
	He has been described as Britain's leading prophet of the robot age.
	He appears in the 1999 Guinness Book of Records for Internet Robot Learning Experiments.
	In 98, Kevin shocked the international scientific community by having a silicon chip transponder surgically implanted in his left arm.
	That experiment allowed a computer to monitor him as he moved through halls and offices of the Department of Cybernetics at the University.
	He would use an identifying signal technique emitted by the implanted chip.
	He could operate doors, lights, heaters, other computers, without so much as lifting a finger.
	And now, the professor has entered the second phase of the investigation.
	On March 14th, an operation was carried out at the Radcliffe Infirmary, Oxford, UK, to implant a microelectrode array into the median nerve of Professor Kevin Warwick.
	This new custom-built implant should be able to send back signals, in fact, actually two-way, between the professor's nervous system and a computer.
	Both movement and sensory signals are to be investigated along with attempts to measure signals associated with physical emotions like anger, shock, excitement.
	This is the world's first operation of this type and coming up in a moment we've got him on the line from Great Britain.
	Here is Professor Kevin Warwick from Great Britain.
	Professor, welcome back to the program.
	Cheers, Al.
	Nice to be here again.
	Great to have you.
	You know, just before we get started, Professor, I heard that Of course, we have daylight savings time here, too, which I think is insanity.
	We should have it all year long, but we're going to have to spring forward the clocks here this coming Sunday.
	And someone earlier today told me, when they were setting up the interview with you for tonight, that you folks in Great Britain change your clocks a week before we do.
	Yeah, I think there's a nine-hour difference now.
	We went ahead of the game, I think.
	No idea why that is.
	I was glad we sorted it out, otherwise I'd have been sitting on the end of the phone for about an hour and there would have been nothing coming through.
	But that's the embarrassing thing I've ever heard of.
	I mean, it's bad enough that we changed the clocks, but we're not even doing it evenly with our best friends, the Brits?
	Yeah, it's absolutely crazy, but I don't know, maybe we'll have a day soon where we don't bother with all these time differences, we just operate the world on one time or something like that.
	I think with the internet and the world connections, it's probably possible.
	Well, alright, so when we last talked, you know, you've got to imagine tonight that there are those who did not hear the first program we did.
	Yep.
	Certainly there are.
	And you, for some time, have had an implant in you which could sort of, I don't know, turn on lights without clapping and close doors or do whatever, right?
	Yeah, you were mentioning the Applied Digital Solutions thing.
	In a sense, it was something very much like that.
	It didn't operate in exactly the same way, but it was an identifying chip, as you described earlier.
	And we've got the computer in the building here, a cybernetics building at Reading University set up, so as I walked through different doorways, it knew where I was.
	Um, and we had it actually monitoring.
	It knew when I went into a room, when I left a room, exact timings.
	But we got it opening doors for me, switching off the lights, and, uh, coming through the front door, it said, Hello, Professor Warwick.
	So, uh... I see.
	Well, now, you know, I got thinking about that.
	Uh, and while I wouldn't want to ask about your personal situation, do you think the average guy would want to have his wife monitoring the internet, let's say, watching whichever room her husband was in, you know, 25 miles away?
	Well, I don't know.
	There's always the big brother issue, like you're saying, whether it's a person's wife or husband, because women could have chips like this as well.
	Well, that's true.
	But also computers monitoring.
	I think there is a worry, that aspect of it.
	Again, with smart cards and the sort of credit cards we have now, in a sense, it's more looking at it that way.
	And I would say, as well as there being potential worrying aspects, there are potential positives that you could use something like this as a very safe credit card, something that is not going to get stolen.
	You're not going to lose it.
	Well, how do you take this news?
	In other words, our FDA here in America has basically said it's none of their business.
	And so they've said, go ahead.
	So this company is going to get to go ahead, and I guess that means everybody gets to go ahead.
	It really has nothing at all to do with the FDA.
	Period.
	Well, I can see quite why.
	If a person is willing to have something implanted, I understand it now, it's quite a simple, relatively simple injection.
	Mine, at that time, this is now four years ago, required minor surgery.
	It wasn't particularly painful, but there was local anesthetic involved, so it was a little bit more serious, but now technology's moved on.
	By the way, how is your chip powered?
	Well that one, that one was powered, it had a little induction coil.
	I think this is similar to the ADS system.
	So it doesn't have a battery or anything in it and you need to pass, put a bigger coil nearby Which you have in a barcode reader or we have in various doorways here at Reading.
	Quite simply, the bigger coil induces electricity in the smaller coil, which is in the coil of wire, that is, which is in the implant itself.
	So that provides by induction, magnetic induction.
	A guy called Michael Faraday discovered it.
	I'm quite well aware of what it is.
	Is there any storage capacity at all within it?
	Not with that one, no.
	Well, the only sense there was is that we could reprogram the code that it was transmitting.
	No, no, no.
	I meant electrical storage.
	In other words, once you had the inductor nearby, would any excess energy be stored to keep the chip going once you got out of range?
	Not that way that we got it set up.
	No, no.
	It was just at that moment you had the energy.
	It could transmit signals.
	It could receive signals at that time.
	But once you moved out of range, that's it.
	Gotcha.
	I think that's the same with the ADS thing.
	I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's the same.
	Okay, so then, after you have had plenty of experience with that chip in you, you recently, I know, decided to have this operation, which is pretty complex, and basically, you have, well now that it's over, the operation has happened, but the intent of the operation was to do what?
	Yeah, well it did take quite a bit of time to bring about, both technically and getting through ethics committees and things like that, so a lot of paperwork involved.
	But the main intent is to link my nervous system with the computer, either by literal hard wire So literally the one possibility is with wires that go from my nervous system into the computer or which is the more usual route that we'll be using and that is we've got a radio transmitter pack so mainly it'll be connecting my nervous system to the computer by radio.
	So they have to take basically all of these wires And rip open, well, rip open, the surgeon wouldn't say rip open, but open up your arm and get to the nerves and wire into the nerves.
	Something you thought was going to be about an hour's worth of operation, if I recall.
	Yeah, I was guessing at an hour from what they'd said, but of course it was the first time this operation had ever been carried out, so there were an awful lot of unknowns.
	Even the surgeon was guessing, well, we'll try it this way, But it lasted just over two hours in the end, so it was one hell of an experience.
	I just had local anesthetic, although it was regional, from my elbow down to my hand, so I could still move my fingers around, still feel, which was important.
	Now I recall also that you said that you expected a strong possibility you would lose part of the control of your hand.
	That's right, that's right.
	The moment in the operation when there's an array of 100 pins, essentially, which make a hardwire connection to the nerve fibers, and the moment before that was fired in, the surgeon checked with me, okay, you ready for this?
	And it's one of those moments in your life that you, you know, I was there, okay, I'd built up for this for several years, but he's about to fire it in and you think, well, this is it.
	When you say, when you say fire it in, what do you mean?
	A hundred connections?
	How do you fire a hundred connections at once?
	Well, it's on a little array.
	It's on a, like a hairbrush, but much, much smaller, obviously.
	And then the whole array is fired in, in one go, with a very, a sort of miniature pneumatic drill.
	Oh, you're kidding!
	You mean, so, if you could picture this little tiny, millions of little brushes, little connection points, and it's fired into the nerve, how do they match, or do they just assume that they're going to get X number of connections to the nerve, firing it in?
	Well, that's what we're about.
	I mean, it's very much into the unknown.
	I mean, medical research in this area, people maybe tend to think, oh, we know about how all the nerves work.
	Very little, very little is known.
	And one thing we're hoping to do is actually move things on a little bit by... Holy smokes!
	Professor, that's kind of like firing a shotgun.
	Yeah, well, very much so, yeah.
	So, I mean, it was, at that time, it was very much, maybe I could have lost, at that instant, a lot of movement or sensations in my fingers, thumb, and so on.
	So he said, are you ready?
	Yeah.
	You said... I said, go for it.
	Go for it.
	And they fired away, and then I suppose first thing they did is say, try to move something, right?
	Well, wait a minute, you had an anesthetic, so you couldn't.
	I had local around where the connection was, but I still could move my fingers or thumbs.
	Most of my fingers and thumbs were still free to move and feeling there.
	Did you feel any immediate difference?
	Not difference in the sense of loss of feeling or so on, but when he fired it in, yeah, there was a sort of like a bolt of electricity running down thumb and finger and so on.
	So Wow, like a mini electric shock, I guess.
	Oh, wow.
	Okay.
	And to be to be honest, I mean, jumping ahead, we talk more about the operation, but jumping ahead over the last few weeks since then.
	I get occasional zings, as it were.
	I don't know how else to describe it, but sort of electrical impulses shoot down a finger.
	It's not painful at all.
	In fact, from a scientific point of view, it's quite exciting.
	What do you think that means?
	Do you think that means that there are nerves attaching to the electrodes, we'll call them?
	Oh yeah, I would think it's, well in a way it's not knowing really, but there's that, I think there's the possibility simply of the connection settling in and the nerves regrouping, but there's also, because I've got a connector pad linked to the outside, so I mean they might be picking up some static or something like that and I'm literally getting signal, picking up radio stations or something like that, I don't know.
	Is the entire apparatus contained within you now, or is there an external portion?
	There is an external.
	When we were actually developing it, at one time we were looking to go for a complete implant, so everything would be self-contained, which I think from a medical point of view is the preferred option long-term.
	But really, scientifically and medically, it's very much a step into the unknown.
	And hence we needed most of our electronics on the outside so we could try it out and well it's not working as well as we hoped let's change something let's modify it let's try this instead of that and if it was implanted of course we'd have to open my arm up every time we wanted to try it so so we've got some inside and some outside so literally a connector part
	uh... there's some lawyers coming out of my arm and i've got a connector part
	which uh... then we connect up to our interface unit from time to time
	uh...
	how long did you wait after the operation
	until you looked it up the first time uh... to be honest it was a couple of weeks uh...
	The surgeon wanted to, I mean he was in control of the situation and he wanted at least one week before he was happy that everything, just from a medical point of view, that it looked as though it was healing up, that it looked as though there was no rejection.
	In particular, that there wasn't any sign of infection getting in.
	Of course.
	And that was the critical thing.
	I think because we got wires coming out, the big, big worry was that if you get some infection around the point where the wires come out of the body, it can just zip down those wires like wildfire and get straight into the nerves.
	And then, you know, you're into a dead hand time.
	The whole hand could Just stop.
	You get all the nerves infected directly.
	Because the nerves, the nerve fibers have this sheath, a coating around them, which I suppose we've evolved for protection.
	Well, what would happen if that occurred?
	I mean, is that a fatal possibility, or is it what?
	Well, I suppose that there is that possibility.
	I mean, the surgeon must have sat you down and warned you about what the possibilities were.
	Oh sure, sure, sure, sure.
	But I guess again, because no one's done it before, there is that in the extreme case, but because no one's done it before, you're taking risks, but you don't really know what the risks are until you've done it.
	And here, I think infection getting down into the nerves, because we've broken through the covering, the sheath that covers the nerves, so we're opening up the nerves to possibilities of infection that haven't really been done before.
	Well, you are now the world's first human cyborg.
	I mean, we've had cyborgs in science fiction, you know, for as long as I've been alive, but now you actually are the world's first cyborg.
	How do you feel?
	Well, tremendously excited.
	From the point of view of scientifically, every day is a an exciting day we i mean one one problem is we because
	nobody's been there before you don't know what to expect or what to feel with anything we're doing do
	you feel the machine in you in a way i Rather not.
	I've just become instantly attached.
	I mean, I almost don't notice it there.
	Instantly attached.
	All right, Professor, hold on.
	Rather instantly attached.
	Great line.
	The world's first human cyborg is my guest, and he is Professor Kevin Warwick.
	From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
	I'll stay right there.
	I'll stay right there.
	You ride on through the night.
	I'll stay right there.
	No one shall last.
	No one.
	Lonely days.
	Lonely nights.
	Where would I be without my woman?
	Lonely days Lonely nights Where would I be without my woman?
	Lonely days, lonely nights When I'm feeling out my warm heart
	To reach Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nigh From West of the Rockies, Dial 1
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	1-800-618-8255, east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222 or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
	To recharge on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator, and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell, on the Premier Radio Networks.
	The first implant ships for human beings just got approved by the FDA today, here in America.
	In Great Britain, they're far ahead of us.
	My guest, Professor Kevin Morwick, is the world's first cyborg.
	He just had an operation, an incredible, absolutely incredible operation, and we're just beginning to learn about it.
	So stay right where you are.
	Back across the land and the pond to the professor in Great Britain, Professor Kevin Warwick.
	Professor, you know, a really important first question for me is, do you now have full use of your arm and your hand?
	Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.
	Well, yeah, I do, certainly.
	No problem with it at all.
	Throughout the operation, Peter Teddy, the surgeon, every so often he would stop and say, can you still move your fingers?
	Can you still feel this?
	Can you still feel that?
	And I was delighted to be able to say yes all the time, and now it's been in for a while and everything's fine.
	And you can move your fingers as much dexterity as you always had?
	No reduction whatsoever?
	Yeah, no problem at all.
	I'm still terrible on the piano, just as I always was.
	Yeah, no problem. It's really... I mean, as I was saying before, when he fired the pins into it, I mean, it was at
	that moment that you really feel in yourself, wow, this is it.
	It could be a dangerous moment.
	I could lose all sense of feeling and touch.
	But as it happened, it turned out okay.
	Well now, since those nerves are hooked, when they fired it in, which is kind of an odd term, when they fired it in, then obviously the local anesthetic didn't mean much to the nerve chain that went further up your arm into your body, right?
	No, that's it.
	I mean, well, it seemed all right going back up to my brain.
	I didn't know that I had any, but of course the feelings were coming through from my fingers, so I suppose it was going both ways.
	It felt like a small electric shock when the Uh, when the array got fired in.
	I mean, as it happened, because it was a bit of a research thing in itself, the operation, when he had a first go with it, we hadn't quite got the system wired up right, and it didn't... I described it as a bit like a pneumatic drill, hammering the things in, and it didn't actually work properly first time, so we had to have a go at it again.
	I see.
	But people think, oh, the operation's all scheduled, and it goes ahead, and there's no problems with it.
	That wasn't quite the case.
	I wouldn't use the term pneumatic drill in an operation.
	It was like a mini one.
	A small pneumatic drill.
	It was exciting being awake.
	I mean, having a general.
	I could have had a general, but I think it was important for me to be awake during the operation.
	And I'll bet your surgeon felt the same way too.
	Oh yeah, exactly, exactly.
	He could then ask me questions, how does that feel, what's that like, and so on and so forth.
	Well alright, so now you have how many wires that come out of you?
	We've actually got 20.
	We've got 20 small, very very small wires and they come out onto a connector pad, which is about, the array itself is positioned just up from my wrist.
	There's a two-inch incision, which you were saying about cutting me open before.
	There's a two-inch incision, and that's where the array's positioned on my median nerve.
	There's then a bunch of wires.
	The surgeon had to tunnel up my arm about 15 centimeters, and the wires actually come out a little bit down from the elbow.
	Wow!
	I think if anybody's seen the film, The Terminator, where Uh, Arnie Schwarzenegger opens up his arm and he's got all wires and things.
	I'm a bit like that at the moment.
	I've got a bunch of wires running up my arm.
	Oh, wow.
	Um, you know, it's interesting.
	Here in the desert, we have very low humidity and when you walk across a rug and you touch somebody, you get a shock.
	I mean, even my little cats, you touch them, you get a big, both of us get a shock, you know?
	Yeah.
	Now, Great Britain is pretty humid, so you may not face that problem, but I was wondering Oh my god, I mean, what if somebody should shuffle across a rug and touch you at the wrong moment?
	I think maybe you're describing that you're right with humidity, but I am scheduled next week, as it happens, I'm visiting the University of Arizona.
	Oh, you are?
	That could be a very dangerous trip.
	Well, I'll be able to report back as to what actually happened.
	There's a digital art symposium next Thursday and Friday.
	In Arizona?
	In Arizona, yeah.
	Are you going to be hopping around like a frog in a hot fryer?
	You're putting me off now.
	I've changed my mind about it.
	so it was a scientifically appropriate prove uh... prove you're right or prove
	you're on the hard well now i'll have to actually well uh...
	you thought you saw the shop before anyway yes uh... you know that every day i
	do get the odd uh...
	first few days it was more but i i i i don't go to call them little losing this
	Little zings?
	Well, let me tell you how it is out here.
	You can get about an eighth of an inch spark that jumps between two human beings, or a human being and a piece of metal or a cat or whatever.
	And while it's of course a very small amount of current, it's extremely high voltage, actually.
	And if that were to connect with one of your wires... Yeah, you're right.
	We'll see, we'll see.
	Only one way of finding out, that's for sure.
	Have you yet attempted a crude interface to any of the wires with your computer interface?
	Yeah, we've actually looked at picking up signals, monitoring.
	We've not yet got ahead with any putting signals down.
	And the good reason for that is that because he's doing it for the first time, actually
	trying to make sense of in any shape or form and understand what the signals are all about
	is proving to be a little bit more of a challenge than we previously imagined.
	So in other words, you hook up some of the wires to an interface, and you're looking at a computer readout, which is monitoring, I suppose, subtle voltage changes?
	Yeah, that's right.
	I mean, it's literally on the nervous system.
	It's micro volts you're talking about.
	I understand.
	But I mean, you, for example, would clench your fist, I guess, and then watch for a reaction.
	Are you getting a reaction?
	Oh, yeah.
	Clear as a bell.
	Oh, really?
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah.
	Oh, yeah.
	We've actually done it mainly the hardwired way.
	So with the wire, literally a wire connection to the computer.
	Oh, yeah.
	I can safely say I've interfaced.
	That's for sure.
	Oh my.
	What about other things?
	For example, if you are experiencing extreme discomfort or extreme joy or some extreme emotion, do you believe you've seen that register?
	We haven't tried anything like that yet.
	I mean, we certainly plan to, and I think from what we've seen so far, like you described earlier, sort of physical emotions.
	So the sort of thing when, if I am to get excited and those signals appear, I feel my best guess is that we are going to see something.
	Again, getting some understanding of the signals, what the hell they all mean, is going to be quite a challenge.
	But yeah, I think we're going to see something.
	And certainly, even if we don't understand the signals, we can take one thing and say, well, these set of signals relate to when Kevin's very excited.
	And then when we see the signals again, we can say, yeah, he's very excited.
	Well, that's quite a rig you've got inside of you now.
	I feel that you have reaped as much benefit as you can from this particular experiment.
	Is it removable?
	Oh yeah, the planet, well we hope.
	I mean, as far as I'm aware, this particular array has been put into animals before, non-human animals before.
	Not by me, I've not done anything like that.
	And when it's been removed, it's been terminal cases.
	So essentially, a rabbit has had the array, and then After it dies.
	After it dies, they take it out again.
	So I don't fancy for science going through that bit.
	I think that was, I have enough complaints from people saying, oh, he's only doing it for publicity.
	Oh no, I know better.
	Jamie, I get these computer messages while we're on the air, in Oakville, Ontario, up in Canada, says, you know, a few programs that you do upset me as much as implant ones.
	Beautiful wrapping for such an invasive and dangerous concept.
	Just think of what the government and corporate America could use this for.
	Unbelievable.
	Very unhappy with this kind of thing.
	I think quite rightly.
	One reason we're doing it is probably to stir people's emotions so we can start discussing it.
	great you're giving it airtime because all of us are going to be in a lot of trouble.
	We're going to have to deal with it.
	we're not realizing it.
	What we're doing is open.
	We're saying this is what we're doing.
	So it's good that somebody's calling in.
	By the way, I don't know if you got the story, but Dr. Servino, apparently in Dubai, Yeah.
	Well, there you go.
	that the first human clone is eight weeks along in the cooker
	Yeah.
	well there you go you and i talked a little bit about this in the last uh...
	program but uh...
	here you go i mean the first human clone is less than nine months away
	yeah and this is the problem you're saying dubai yes different countries have different
	ethical regulations to go through before you can carry out particular
	uh... investigations and like we've done this in the u k whether we could do it
	in the u s just yet but i don't know maybe now you can't because we're we're going through it but there in dubai
	But potentially the ethical problems associated with doing something like that are a little bit different.
	Yes, even where you are in Great Britain, what were the ethical considerations and arguments and then how did you finally get approval to do this?
	Yeah, well, the first thing was the array that's actually fired in, because it's a one-off thing.
	It's just me we're trying on.
	We're not trying it out on 50 volunteers or anything.
	Therefore, it's not considered to be a medical piece of technology.
	That's exactly the way the EPA ruled here.
	Right.
	Well, there we go.
	Well, that's it.
	And that avoids a lot of committees, if it's not that.
	So the only really ethical committees, the paperwork we had to go through, were at the hospital that we carry the operation out.
	Each hospital has an ethics committee.
	As it happens, we went through two hospital ethics committees for a double check.
	But that's the main ethical consideration.
	So there aren't in fact the overall ethical issues which the caller from Ontario was pointing to.
	Should we be doing this sort of thing?
	Where's it going to go?
	There isn't really any You went, I guess, before these two ethical boards.
	there's no there's no international group that looks at that or anything
	like that is just really locally
	the the hospital saying medically is this alright can the surgeon do it
	and and so uh... you went to i guess before these uh... to ethical boards
	was there any dissent no the the the one board just said yeah go ahead with it
	The other one, because the median nerve is the main bunch of nerve fibers going down from the brain to the hand, the thumb and fingers, and there are one or two more periphery nerves.
	The ulna actually operates on the small, the little finger.
	And there was a question there, well, are you sure you want to go for this main nerve because of the dangers associated?
	If something goes wrong, it could be pretty serious.
	Yes.
	So we had to substantiate the positive point with going through this nerve because we're doing it to help a lot of people with spinal injuries if we can move things forward in that area.
	And if we went for a lesser nerve, The results we felt would be, in themselves, much less.
	So, in going for it, we thought it's best to go for the main one.
	Well, how did you, out of curiosity, how did you justify the jump to a human, even yourself?
	In other words, there must have been an argument saying, why aren't we doing this at the animal level?
	Why do you feel that you, even doing it to yourself, have to move it this high a level?
	Well I think there have been quite a few animal studies now with this particular type of a ray, but of course with any animal, a non-human animal that is, you don't really get the same sort of feedback.
	You can't really say, is that hurting, or how does it feel, or can you move your fingers around, or your claws or whatever it is, and what does that feel like in terms of what are your sensing.
	And hence the whole investigations are very, very restricted.
	You don't even know whether the animal is in pain or not.
	I mean it could be, and this was a big question for us.
	That's true.
	Okay, a chicken has an implant and how does the chicken show pain?
	You don't know.
	And really one of the things we're looking for on the positive side with this implant
	is the potential for use on people with spinal injuries.
	The prime popular example would be Christopher Reeve that people know about, who his brain is fully functioning but he's paralyzed from the neck down.
	And in the future, for people like him, Can we at least restore some movement, or can they control their environment to a small extent?
	That would be the big hope, and that's really a key aim of what we're doing.
	Do you think that any of this research will benefit Christopher Reeves in his lifetime?
	My guess would be it could do, if he's willing to carry on.
	I mean, I would have thought that in the next few years, because this is working well, I can't see why not.
	I mean, I would have thought within the next decade what we're doing here should have some pilot studies at least carried out which will be helping people.
	I mean, for somebody like that, if he could just move a finger or two to pick up a cup or press a button or something for his dignity, for his ability, it would be enormous.
	What about, in his case, I guess all of the, now I'm just stabbing around the dark here, but all of the The nerves are severed, essentially.
	In other words, there's no transmission of information anywhere for anything, right?
	And his is the worst case, right at the top of the spine.
	Exactly.
	What I'm about to ask you about is, instead of putting in an external device of some sort, what if... I mean, if you can essentially fire, as you put it, fire at these nerves and get some sort of connections, Why shouldn't a person like myself imagine that you could do... Well, if a wire is cut, Professor, you can make a splice.
	You can splice in a piece of wire and all of a sudden get a connection again.
	Why couldn't you imagine doing a splice?
	In other words, firing one set into the bottom set of nerves and one set into the top set of nerves.
	Yeah, I think you can imagine that.
	Really?
	It hasn't been done yet.
	And hopefully sort of bridge over, I mean exactly that.
	Yeah, kind of like a bypass.
	Yeah, exactly.
	And the hope would be that maybe that will be possible in the next few years.
	Maybe pretty quickly.
	I think we still have an awful lot to learn about the spine and nerves and so on.
	So I don't think we can imagine as yet it's going to be a one for one, that each nerve can be connected up.
	But even if firing in an array like I've got, and then on the other end firing in an array lower down, over the break, I think that would bring about something, and it's certainly a very exciting way to go ahead.
	Now, how likely is it that, as time passes, all this array of connections that you liken to a hairbrush, a teeny-weeny little hairbrush, will begin connecting to nerves?
	In other words, will begin forming connections that, at the moment of the operation, were not fully complete, and sort of grow into it, as it were?
	Is that likely?
	I think it is.
	Of Philip Kennedy's work at Emory, he had been working really with single electrodes with stroke victims and there the results after a while implied very heavily that that was going on.
	tend to feel that probably what happens is if your body, particularly your brain, feels it is
	gaining something from this piece of technology, then it tends to go for it and it may well grow together
	very much.
	If conversely it feels it's doing something negative, then it probably
	tries to reject it. So we're particularly excited about looking at giving me
	extra sensory input which is one of the things we want to do, ultrasonic senses
	which humans don't have, and then I think we may well see that the nerves start to
	link up more strongly with the technology, really become one with it.
	Wow.
	All right, well, that brings on many questions.
	In other words, when we get back, I'll be interested to know if... I guess this is in parallel with your nerves.
	Obviously, they haven't been broken, so it's in parallel, which means that the wires are also connected to the professor's brain.
	We'll be right back.
	you And I never dreamed that I'd lose somebody like you
	No, I don't wanna fall in love No, I...
	I'm gonna make a street light in your head and then only people will know
	Well, another crazy day.
	You're thinking out of way and forget about everything.
	This city doesn't make you feel so cold.
	It's got so many people, but it's got no soul.
	And it's taken you so long to find out you were wrong when you thought it held everything.
	You used to think that it was so easy You used to say that it was so easy But you're trying, you're trying now Another year and then you'd be happy Just one more year and then you'd be happy But you're crying, you're crying Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255, east of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033. First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
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	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nye.
	As of this last Sunday, it's a nine-hour spread to where Professor Kevin Warwick is.
	He's the first human cyborg in the world.
	And so we are spanning those nine hours at the speed of light for you,
	and that's who we're interviewing.
	Think about that.
	The first at anything.
	How often do you get to be the first at anything?
	The first human cyborg?
	More in a moment.
	Stay right there.
	All right, back now to Great Britain and to Professor Kevin Warwick.
	Professor, I was thinking about this, and of course in the case of somebody with a spinal cord severance or any nerve that is severed, you would go in with the kind of thing that you've got and shotgun fire at one of the severed ends, I suppose, in an early experiment.
	However, in your case, essentially, You fired into a parallel situation because your nerve nerves are all still connected both to your fingers, your arm and your brain on the other end, right?
	That's exactly right.
	I didn't have a there's no problem that I was trying to correct or anything like that.
	So I was firing directly into nerves that were fully functioning.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Okay.
	So the connections are not only Melding themselves in the direction of your arm, but in the direction of your brain at the same time.
	Exactly, yeah, the nerves are a bit like a freeway to the brain, or in this case, from the brain down to the hand.
	That's exactly what it is.
	Very high speed route.
	Now, do we know for a fact, we know so little about nerves, do we know for a fact, and I know we touched on this in the last program, but it's so intriguing to me, that the nerves that go, or make their way from the brain to the hand and the arm are Only pathways that have to do with the movement of the fingers and the arm and the articulation and all the rest of it?
	Or is it somewhat possible that the neural connections that you're establishing that are going to your brain could deliver messages in a bidirectional manner that would have nothing at all to do with your hand or your arm?
	Well, that's the thing.
	As well as the movement, which is down from the brain to the fingers, you've got the root back as well.
	The touch and pain, all of those sensations, they're being delivered back up to the brain.
	And then there are some other nerves knocking around that nobody really knows what they're doing, whether it's sort of evolution and they're there for some other purpose or something.
	Yeah, I mean, what we want to do is tap into some of the sensory nerves, which are normally, which we hope we've got, we hope we've got some.
	We're finding that out at the moment.
	But instead of use them for touch, for feel, is to feed down ultrasonic signals.
	We have a bunch of robots that use ultrasonics, which is a bit like a bat senses the world or high frequency sound.
	Humans don't have that sense.
	But we want to feed down onto the nerves the output from those sensors, so to try to give me an alternative sense directly to my brain and that's where we'll really be looking at the point you're making there.
	Can we feed in different information directly to the brain and get the brain to hopefully make sense of it, make use of it?
	Well, if that happens, then, Professor, you are really in the twilight zone.
	Well, yeah, but for real.
	Yeah, that's right, for real.
	No, I meant for real.
	I mean, you're really in the twilight zone, because then all of a sudden you could begin, I mean, potentially, at the far end of the possibilities at this, you could begin to interface with a computer in a way that no human being on the planet would even have a clue about, right?
	Oh, for sure. For sure. Yes, yes. I mean, we're looking at some specific signals there,
	ultrasonics, that we know what they're about and my brain hopefully can make some sense
	of them, but of course it's looking at a whole range of signals, maybe signals that, you
	know, nothing like have been on the nervous system before.
	What the brain is going to make of those signals, I think when we get towards the end of the experiment, we'll probably try a few weird things.
	As long as I'm still okay for it, we'll try a few weird signals and see what happens.
	Mark in Tempe, Arizona expresses the view of others when he says, Freedom means nothing without privacy.
	No matter what the benefits, no matter what the benefits, it is a step toward the ultimate invasion of privacy.
	Imagine if you needed such positive ID to buy or sell, Hitler would have cheered.
	That's, of course, again, the downside of this kind of thing.
	What do you say to these critics?
	I'm sure you get email and stuff from them, don't you?
	Yeah, to be honest, 99% of emails is very positive and questions about what we're doing, that sort of stuff.
	So it isn't the minority, but it is an issue.
	I mean, in a way, the telephone was an invasion of privacy.
	It sort of made the world smaller, and this really I see along those lines.
	I'm not connected 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
	At the moment I can choose when I'm connected and when I'm not.
	At the moment, yes.
	At the moment, yeah.
	When I am connected, yeah, it's a different matter.
	It's linking myself up to the computer.
	If the computer is linked to the internet and the web, then it is opening things up
	in that route.
	I think if the previous caller referred to the possibility of governments and so on being very intrusive and maybe implanting people against their will and having them connected up all the time, That is a different matter, and that, for sure, I think the caller there saying it's an invasion on privacy, I would agree completely.
	There are all sorts of ethical questions and issues here.
	Yes, well, then how do you begin drawing the lines?
	As the technology marches forward, thanks to people like self, and you get to the point where you have to draw those lines, how do you draw them?
	Well, it's a difficult line to draw.
	It's only society, maybe, and society's different in different countries.
	Even what I was describing, an extra sensory input, an ultrasonic input, for me, it's something extra.
	Humans don't have that.
	It's sort of upgrading humans, and you might think, oh, that's negative.
	We shouldn't be doing that.
	But on the other hand, for somebody who's blind, Then it could be good, not to repair their blindness, but to give them a different sense, to allow, to help them to move around.
	So you say, well, should somebody be able to have this because they're blind and somebody else not because they're not blind?
	It's a very, very difficult line to draw.
	And as with the genetics and cloning, there are enormous issues, positives and negatives at the same time.
	Yes, well then, who would be the one or the group to most properly Decide and then regulate on all of this.
	Would this be in private hands, would you think?
	Would it be, by necessity, a decision made by the government, legislated, or in the parliament there, whatever?
	I don't know.
	I mean, who?
	Yeah, I don't know.
	I think it would have, whatever it is, it would have to be an international body.
	can't see the okay one government regulates that may act against itself as a country because
	if other countries are going ahead and you end up with the military particularly
	working with soldiers that are upgraded they have extra senses you know
	maybe they have in infrared senses they could have a bit of a one-up on the
	opposition and particularly when we look ultimately at direct connections
	to the brain and the possibilities of upgrading memory capabilities and in
	particular communicating directly from the brain which I see as a
	distinct possibility if some countries have regulated against that and other
	countries have said well it's all right by us then it's giving those countries quite
	an edge so I think it has to be international which means a big sign up by all
	countries which is a very very difficult thing to bring about
	Well, maybe your experiments will drive us toward talking about that.
	I guess that's what this is all about.
	That's right.
	I hope so.
	I hope so.
	We have to talk about it.
	It has to be raised.
	There are enormous moral and ethical issues here, much, much greater than the cloning issues, I feel.
	And we've got to start talking about them because the technology is with us.
	If the wildest thing happens and you find out that the neural pathways mate and mate and mate and as that develops and as you hook yourself up finally in a bi-directional manner to a computer, Professor, and you find out that your neural pathways to your brain are capable of transmitting information That would have nothing to do, perhaps, with the movement of your hand or your arm, but just directly to your brain, and you begin to experience an actual interface with a computer.
	That is such a wild, unimaginable thing.
	I'm sure you've thought about it.
	That's right.
	Well, I'm at the moment tremendously excited about it, but also, as you might imagine, extremely tense.
	I mean, there's the scientific part of me that says, well, yeah, this is fantastic.
	We've got to see which has been going all through the experiment, which overcomes the dangers that are involved.
	But on the other hand, yeah, it's a very tense thing.
	It's a very scary thing, as it were, because you just don't know.
	We try it out, and if it's changing you physically a little bit, it's one thing.
	But if it's changing you mentally, then it's a whole different ballgame.
	Yeah, but that's the ballpark you're in.
	Oh, very much so.
	Very much so, yes.
	Yes.
	For those around me, and I guess myself, the mental changes are a very worrying one, because the brain is quite an adaptable thing.
	It changes in itself, but this way we're sort of enforcing changes onto it, and you might change one aspect of it, but that has repercussions elsewhere in the brain, and you have all sorts of side effects, which may not be exhibited immediately, but may appear in years to come.
	Exactly.
	How's your wife doing?
	Oh, she's just fine.
	She's been great.
	Absolutely brilliant, which I've needed somebody, a shoulder to lean on and so on.
	And over the whole period before the operation, we were up and down.
	Is it happening?
	Isn't it happening?
	We had a few delays here and there, as you might imagine.
	And then the operation itself, she was extremely supportive.
	Was there ever a moment when she came to you and said, look, Kevin, I don't know.
	Oh, I think, yeah, regularly, a while back.
	I mean, she's known that it's been a scientific drive for me to carry this out, and I suppose at first, are you sure?
	You know what you're doing?
	And some of the issues you're raising, it could mean that mentally you've changed.
	Do you want to go through that?
	And it's the same with my family asking those questions.
	But she's known for some time, yes, we're going for it.
	And so she's been sharing with me the feelings when there's been a delay due to some paperwork
	or there's been a problem with the technology and it's delayed us.
	And she's known that that's, I don't know.
	It's affected everything in our lives.
	So she's been extremely supportive.
	You mentioned you've got 18-20 wires coming out just below the elbow there?
	That's right.
	How does she react to that?
	Is it like, honey, those wires look actually handsome on you?
	Well, it's not every husband that has a bunch of wires coming out.
	Exactly.
	That's my point.
	I mean, if I wasn't married, it would be a wonderful chat-up line, wouldn't it?
	Do you want to see my implant?
	I mean, not everybody can say that.
	I mean, sometimes she forgets they're there and she grabs hold of my arm or knocks it and she's panicking in case it knocks the wires out of place.
	It's just part of me and part of what we're doing now.
	Yeah, you're right.
	If you weren't married, boy, I'll tell you.
	Here, hon, hold these two wires.
	That's right.
	Oh, boy.
	Would you like to experience a real interface with a computer?
	I mean, I guess the answer must be yes.
	You wouldn't have gone through this, but do you think you would like to have it go that far, Professor?
	Oh, yeah, for sure.
	I mean, I think We've got an awful lot to learn and this investigation we're going through, we're learning every day.
	It really is so exhilarating from a scientific point of view to go past the cutting edge or go past the frontiers and to not know what you're going to expect from when you do something.
	You just don't know.
	Nobody's done it before.
	But the whole thing in the years ahead of a full interface, a full connection, for sure.
	I really feel, and not only from human to computer, but a much closer connection from
	human to human as well.
	Through a computer.
	Yeah, the computer would be just like a telephone network connects one human to another in terms
	of speech.
	So the computer network, the internet, to connect people from nervous system to nervous
	system and brain to brain.
	So, I think there's an awful lot we can do just by thinking about it.
	Yeah, you talk about post-humans.
	What kind of society post-humans would live in?
	What do you mean by post-humans?
	You mean you and or your successors?
	What do you mean?
	Well, I think different people mean different things by it.
	I think there are some more philosophical views of it.
	My own view would be that the cyborg, an upgraded human with capabilities, I would see it more
	from the mental side, not the six million dollar man type thing with physical capabilities
	but more with much, much more mental capabilities and the post-human would be that, simply cyborgs
	that have the ability to communicate by thinking to each other, have different senses that
	humans don't have and because they have a brain linked to a computer, have the power
	of thinking in many, many dimensions which humans are very much restricted to thinking
	in three or four dimensions.
	So in other words, ultimately, you could imagine with a high bandwidth connection and interface to a human brain, which would mean that the brain would be on the Internet.
	Essentially, the brain would be on the internet, right?
	That's it, exactly.
	But thinking of it as a brain on the internet is perhaps a better way of looking at it is that your brain on the internet become one.
	Well, that's even a more worrisome way of looking at it.
	It is more worrisome, yeah.
	Yeah, you'd be like a node on the network.
	would be in in a way you would be inside the internet or the internet
	would be inside of you i'm not sure how to say it
	you'd be like a man who don't know network which uh...
	i mean we we haven't connected this up yet the to the network to the but you're going to our children
	going to know you're going to tell people before we do it but sure
	so uh... certainly my nervous system will be linked up to the internet but
	that's definitely on the cards in the weeks ahead yet and then that will be a uh... a weird experience in itself
	Um...
	No, the sort of signals we were talking about, movement and sensory, we want to try playing across the internet, hopefully, between UK and USA.
	I know, I was actually hoping you would have already been hooked up and would have a password for me, you know, so I could... Yeah, if you press a button and my finger starts waggling around.
	But that's seriously what we're looking to do.
	So again, it's not all something in science fiction.
	That's what we've got on the cards in the next few weeks.
	I can't see any, there's no technical reason why that won't work unless there's... Oh, I'm certain you're going to go right ahead with it, Professor, I can tell.
	Stand by, hold it right where you are.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Time, time, time, see what's become of me.
	Ha, ha, ha.
	and the professor.
	I'm going to play it again.
	you It's 2 a.m.
	Thanks for watching.
	But it's still a war in my collection It's time to take a chance
	Yeah, the storm's come loose Stormy into my head
	Wrapped up in silence Lost, circused and dead
	Can I be cold?
	My whole life spins into a frenzy Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nigh
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	800-893-0903. This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nye.
	You've gone too far when Bulletin bumps.
	That's for damn sure.
	Good morning everybody.
	Getting information that there's just been an earthquake.
	A small one.
	Relatively small one.
	Palm Springs, California.
	About half an hour ago.
	4.5 on the Richter scale would appear.
	Felt in a fairly wide area.
	Indio felt it certainly.
	So I'm getting a lot of messages that the ground is shaking nearby here in California.
	No big surprise.
	Jumping ahead now, Professor, there was once a book and I think a movie that followed it called The Forbin Project, and I bet probably you saw it or read it or something.
	Anyway, it really took it on out to the point where machines became the masters of humans.
	And there was an interesting story in the last newscast, you know, the head of the New York Stock Exchange was I was talking about how disruptive 9-1-1 was to their communication.
	You know, September 11th destroyed their communications.
	And how they're taking steps now to protect and they're worried about hackers and all.
	What would happen if a hacker ever got into the New York Stock Exchange?
	That sort of thing.
	The Forbin Project, it got to the point where A machine decided that the folly of human endeavor and human war and human behavior was going to lead to human extinction and it began to take steps based on pure logic.
	That's not all that really outlandish, is it?
	Not at all.
	In 1998, I had a book.
	I don't think it's out in the US, unfortunately, but in the UK and just about everywhere else in the world, called In the Mind of the Machine.
	And that was really scientifically looking at the possibilities of exactly that, how it could come about and so on.
	I think the idea, though, that Machines necessarily use logic that we would regard as straightforward human logic.
	Even that is not necessarily the case.
	I think with machines nowadays, computer-based machines, they learn, they can adapt, and hence come up with their own conclusions based on their own logic.
	It may be so, Professor, but let's look at this.
	We've got, what, five or six billion human beings on the planet now?
	Yep, yep.
	Isn't it entirely possible I mean, we are humans, so we're not likely to say, except the very lowest of us or the highest of us, depending on how you look at this, that there need to be less humans and something has to be done immediately to control the population.
	...might come to the same conclusion about the available resources versus the number of consumers, and it could make a fairly radical, arbitrary decision for... I mean, if you were to instruct a machine to act in the best interests of human beings, it might decide the best interest of human beings would be that there weren't so many of them.
	Oh, quite right.
	As humans, I think we're driven along very much by short-term goals and often personal goals.
	Quite a few countries have problems with populations that are really exploding at the moment and it's very difficult for them to apply any overall long-term goals and seeing where everything's going. I think we are
	very very bad at looking at the long term and saying, in long term, even
	in terms of five, ten years, never mind next year or so on.
	Well we might not be really good at that, but machines might be really good at that.
	Oh for sure, and probably have an intellectual capability of looking ahead
	a bit more accurately than we can.
	Yes, and then if they're interfaced to the internet, for example, they might have the capability of actually Acting, at some point, to implement what they had decided.
	Now, that's a strong word, decided, but I mean... No, that's fine.
	I'm happy, and I think it's perfectly possible.
	All the time we are deferring to computers for decisions, much, much more, and allowing the computer network to Not only make the decision, but carry out or implement in some way.
	I don't think we've quite got to the stage that we're talking about here, but... No, we haven't, but here's the problem.
	The Internet was built by scientists.
	It was built in order to communicate no matter what would happen.
	In other words, you could destroy Chicago, LA, New York, the Internet would still keep trucking along because it's like a giant neural bunch of connections and we can't switch it off this idea
	or if the computer is getting dangerous we just have to switch it off
	I mean that's a complete fallacy yes that's all wrong isn't it you know you
	just pull the plug well you can't just pull the plug there's a million plugs
	You just can't do it.
	Yeah, you might be able to pull one individual plug somewhere, but that's it.
	You've just... There's just one thing.
	There are millions upon millions of other plugs that you've got no opportunity.
	And that's true for every... No, I think there's no way of switching the Internet off realistically.
	Well, they're beginning... They're going down the road now of these new computers, these...
	Oh, what do they call them?
	These, uh... Not supercomputers.
	No, no, no, no.
	These are little tiny things that are going to be the future of computers, and it won't come to me at the moment what they are.
	People can phone in with the answer.
	That's the quiz.
	Anybody phones in with the right answer.
	Quantum.
	Thank you.
	Oh, quantum computers.
	Yeah, it just occurred to me.
	Quantum computers.
	And when we get to that stage, the speed is going to be so enormous That it's not really all that hard to... I mean, I don't... I'm not sure exactly what consciousness is.
	It's probably a factor of storage and speed.
	Yeah, I mean, again, you can start to look at human consciousness, but then there's also the potential for machine consciousness.
	And for us to say, oh, this machine is not conscious, therefore we don't have to worry about it.
	I mean, I think that is so crazy as to be, you know, we should ignore that straight away.
	Just like saying this bat or this cow is not conscious.
	It's a creature that's living in a different way from what we are.
	And we know that computers have, in the way they operate, a lot of advantages over humans.
	The memory capabilities, the speed that you're referring to, the accuracy, the repeatability.
	There are so many things that we know for sure.
	How many other things?
	Communication is another thing.
	I think technology has an enormous advantage over humans.
	Well, if you accept that speed and storage are the two things that when they reach some Juncture, some point, there will be consciousness, then you could almost sit down, it seems to me, and compute how far ahead in speed and storage one would have to get to where potentially consciousness could occur.
	In other words, where neural function approximates that of a brain of something or a human.
	Yeah, but again it's a different thing and therefore I don't know that it has to approximate that as a human.
	It's more when it's got the power and we've deferred to it enough that it can make some decision and carry out some decision that in a sense from a human point of view is irreversible.
	We can't stop it.
	We can't switch it off.
	It has a profound effect on humanity, of not the type you were talking about.
	It decides, well, we're going to cut off the supplies of food in this area, and there's nothing we can do about it.
	It's carried out.
	Or we are suitably convinced, suitably at the, I don't know, not slaves, but we feel we have to do it.
	otherwise we're not going to have the machines working in the way that we want
	them to and then i think well then how
	uh... you know i've watched science for a long time and it plunges right ahead
	just the way you have done what you've done of this operation you just
	Science just goes ahead.
	We're out here in the public debating about it, but it goes ahead anyway.
	How do we avoid going down that road?
	Well, I guess that my route is the scientific route and is looking at the cyborg alternative.
	It's rather than having machines acting against you, it's saying, hey, there are all these advantages, why don't we link up?
	Why don't we, we've got to admit it's going ahead, as you say, so why can't we team up?
	If you can't beat them, join them.
	Become cyborgs, upgrade humans, give ourselves extra capabilities by linking up with the technology much more closely.
	I certainly think that is one way to look at it, that you're upgrading like you would a program 4.2 to 4.3 or 5.0.
	We have to admit humans have a bunch of abilities.
	We sense the world in certain ways.
	Our brain is of a certain size.
	There's nothing technically wrong with something having more senses, having a much more powerful brain, and certainly evolution would point to that happening in the future.
	It's just, with technology, it really has the potential there to really speed up evolution, really whiz it forward.
	Well, that's an interesting concept, that we could be responsible for our own evolutionary jump.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Self-determination by evolution, yeah.
	Well, I would see it as a distinct possibility, but once again, from society as a whole, it raises enormous moral, ethical questions, and I guess religious questions, when one looks at it.
	Would you, for example, one can easily imagine, either through the kind of hookup you have, or a more complex one in the future, an actual interface to a computer, and then to another human being, so that, for example, You could have downloaded into you the thoughts and experiences of another person on the other side of the world.
	In other words, you would be, it would almost be like a Star Trek thing where you were suddenly, throw a switch, and you're in a different world altogether.
	Yeah, I think it is completely blurring the whole issue of what's real and what's not.
	Because through our normal sensory route, the human brain is just trying to make sense of the messages that are coming in.
	If you start throwing other messages at it through another route, then it is going to try and make sense of those in a different way.
	And if they are either simulated messages or messages, as you say, from another human, somewhere else in the world, then it will try and make
	sense of them in its own way.
	So, okay, it may be not next year or the year after, but the possibilities of signaling,
	certainly emotional, when you're feeling excited, I think that's not far off at all,
	that being blasted from one person to another.
	Again, it's all sorts of questions, what does the other person make of it?
	Will their brain feel excited in the same way, or will it simply not be able to cope with the signals?
	And then, subsequently, feeding in perhaps some memories, perhaps some certain little game playings, or different experiences, Yeah, I mean, I would have to say that's a possibility.
	I don't think we need to understand fully how the human brain works before that happens, but it's really giving the human brain a port, a communication route to the outside world, to the Internet and so on in that way.
	Wouldn't it be the perfect torture mechanism?
	I mean, for example, I find the right two wires and hook you up to a game of Pong, you know, and just leave you alone for a while.
	Yeah, you're right.
	There's the other side of it all.
	There's all sorts of other tortures as well.
	Watching Dallas or Dynasty or something hour after hour and you're forced to do it.
	That's the real world now for sure.
	I guess you've done a lot in robotics and we did touch on this in the last program,
	but robotics has not lived up to its promise.
	I mean, when I was a child, we were reading about robots and that we'd have them serving us, and oh gee whiz, you know, the dishes would be done and all the drudgery work and the garbage would go out without the wife saying a word, and robots would be helping us, and we're not there.
	No, it's gone another way.
	It's gone the internet route.
	There are some robots that walk around, the Honda group of robots, P3 and Asimo, which is a bit like a child, physically.
	They look something like humans, and it is amazing when you see them moving around.
	You think it's somebody inside a robot suit, but they are in fact robots, and they're physically mimicking what humans do, but not mentally in any way.
	And they have cost millions and millions of dollars to put together.
	So, I don't know, they're a sociological question.
	Do people really want a human type of robot, a bit like What was that film?
	There was a film recently with, I can't remember the guy, but a robot potential operating around the home and so on, or in the film AI, I guess, a robot that's something like a human.
	Would we actually want that?
	But technically we do seem to be way, way off something like that.
	are successful beyond all belief and you get a connection to your brain uh... interface to a computer that you didn't expect uh... uh... a very full kind of connection yeah when you would you quickly uh... back away from that and uh... uh... how how would you treat that if all of a sudden Your entire brain came alive with a whole new reality, which was coming from a computer, which you plan to hook up to, I know.
	Would you immediately disconnect and go, uh-oh?
	Well, this is a big question.
	We've got a team of guys here ready, but it's dependent on my reaction, I guess.
	So if there is something that's extremely painful, a big negative, then the hope is that I will still be mentally capable of either saying to someone, OK, switch it off, cut it off, or doing it myself.
	Even if physically, I can't actually operate something with my hand.
	But I mean, if you just suddenly realize, forget the pain, let's say it's not pain, let's just say that you're immediately, overwhelmingly immersed in a cyber world, a whole new world, would you attempt to disconnect immediately, or do you think you're so much scientist you'd sit there and let it happen?
	Oh, I'd go for it, yeah.
	I'd go for it.
	The experience would be absolutely incredible.
	And the thing is, you don't know, could you repeat it?
	I mean, you might have, through just a particular circumstance, gained that experience, which would be fantastic.
	And it might not be something if you switched it off you could repeat immediately.
	So it would be to go for it, yeah.
	Yeah, and then there's this.
	If there is that kind of connection, as you point out, you might not get it again, so you would sit there and immerse yourself into it, but then there's a lot of questions about, once that kind of connection has occurred, Professor, if the software should crash, if the machine should be turned off, Yeah, the psychological aspects of suddenly being pulled out of it, which I know for people in the virtual world, in virtual reality, some people are able to cope nipping in and out and cope with it very easily, but other people experience all sorts of problems in terms of sickness and even for days afterwards can have problems readjusting.
	So it's a big unknown.
	One would hope I'll be alright, but again it might not be something that's immediate.
	There may be immediate shock coming suddenly back into the real world, but I guess without
	going down that route, you just don't know.
	Okay, again, these wires that come out from below your elbow, they deal in hardly measurable amounts of voltage or current, right?
	Yeah, that's right.
	Okay, fine.
	That goes to your brain.
	I asked you about the shock question.
	What about sudden A sudden amount of voltage applied directly to those wires in some manner by accident.
	I mean, surely this has occurred to you?
	That's something we're really worried about, as you might imagine.
	I mean, you've got the voltage and it has some effect on movement that it might because of the movement of fingers and so on
	but it is the other way what what happens when the heads on up to your
	brain well exactly right i mean i i i you can take a a little nine ball
	battery and you can put it on your tongue yep and you can just barely feel the voltage it's a like a
	little tickle yep but nine volts across a couple of your wires going
	straight to your brain oh yeah that's a whole different thing yeah yeah
	and that that is a with the whole of this it it's
	running on a bit of a knife edge as far as what we're doing.
	Because, again, nobody's experienced those sort of things before.
	So, I mean, maybe what you're suggesting there, going on the right pathway, could be pretty cool.
	It could be fun.
	But maybe it could be extremely dangerous.
	You got a 9-volt battery hanging around?
	I'll go try it in the lab now.
	No, don't do that.
	Stay right there, though.
	We've got another hour to do.
	Professor Kevin Warwick, the world's first human cyborg.
	I'm Art Bell.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Very much look at us, but do not touch.
	Pedro is my name.
	Someday on that morning when I'm straight.
	I'm going to open up your gate.
	And And maybe tell you about Phaedra And how she gave me life And how she made it in Someday a little more than what I have
	To recharge Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
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	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
	I thought it was absolute genius of Keith to pick Phaedra as the 100 millionth visitor to the website last night.
	The unlucky Greek goddess Phaedra.
	What a great code name that was.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Well, the professor will be right back and we're about to go to phones.
	Once again from Great Britain, here is Professor Warwick.
	Professor, welcome back.
	Thank you very much, Art.
	A lot of people want to talk to you, but a lot of people are fast-blasting me, asking you about the movie Matrix.
	Oh, yeah.
	You saw that, of course.
	Yeah.
	One in which an entirely artificial world, you know, the world had been wrecked, and I forget, some kind of disaster, but some totally artificial world, was imposed on every human being or mostly every human being and they ran it and they told us what kind of world we were living in even though it was actually devastation we were living in.
	Is that within the realm Oh, very much.
	I must admit, various people before I saw the film had said, hey, you've got to go and see this because it's not too far away from the sort of things you're talking about.
	And when I went to see it, I thought, yeah, this is great.
	The only thing that I was disappointed by about the last 10 minutes of the film became pure Hollywood.
	I think Keanu Reeves was down and out and that was it.
	And then all of a sudden he got some mystical powers from somewhere.
	I think they needed everybody to go home happy and content that everything was all right.
	So I was all right until about the last 10 minutes.
	Then if you cut that out, then fine.
	Yeah, there's very much that sort of world that I think is a distinct possibility realistically.
	Well, I think there are.
	Some science fiction, the fantasy side of things, well, that's a different thing altogether, but quite a bit of the science fiction based on science is a guess as to what might happen in the future.
	uh... and and some of it you have to take out of films like terminator books like neuromancer
	maybe some of it is not going to come about i think things like time travel is still big questions but
	certainly in terms of intelligent machines and robots and what's possible when
	you hook humans up to
	uh... computers to technology because uh... our brains uh...
	the whole thing of what we're about They make an understanding of what we see and what we're about and so on.
	And if you start changing the signals in the brain, you change what the human understands and what things going on.
	One thing is clear, Professor.
	We are a warrior people.
	We're a warrior people.
	I mean, there's a war going on in the Middle East now.
	There's one going on in Afghanistan.
	There's really wars going on all over the planet.
	We fight with each other and kill each other.
	When you take the kind of technology that you are now and you project it into the future and you infuse it with war, what do you see?
	Oh, well, I mean, there's definitely a technological war that we're looking forward to, technological warfare, and that, I think, is not too distant future.
	So, I suppose removing the human from the front line, but also removing the human from a lot of the decision-making, that's what I would see.
	So, I mean, already, I know McDonnell Douglas and Boeing are both putting together fighter planes without human pilots on board, simply because the technology outperforms humans when they're piloting it.
	The humans are too slow to assess the situation, to react.
	So, a technological war, and then you're down to which side has got the better technology.
	So, you could imagine a war in which machines fought Machines, and the best technological nation won.
	That's it, and then the question is, well, what happens when one side has won?
	What do those machines do as far as the humans that are on the other side?
	The losing side.
	The losing side.
	What value do they put on the humans on the losing side?
	Do they value them at all, or has part of their goal been to remove or destroy those humans?
	Which is part of warfare.
	All right, let's go to some phone lines.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Kevin Warwick in Great Britain.
	Remember, there's a slight delay.
	Go ahead.
	Thank you, Art.
	This is Deb Deb from KSFO in Oakland, California.
	Oakland, yes.
	And my question, oh gosh, I have such respect for you.
	I swear I've been walking around all day talking about I was going to listen to this program talking to the first cyborg of the human race.
	And I just feel so honored.
	I know that sounds strange, but here we are, you know.
	You're talking now, yeah.
	Go ahead.
	It's kind of great.
	So anyway, my question is, do we know what frequency we would correspond with electronically or even electromagnetically?
	I mean, I know that scientists know how we resonate, but I mean, Are you being extra careful that you're buffering yourself or grounding yourself somehow, or that you don't get blown out?
	Yeah, it really is a good question, actually.
	It is a wonderful question, because, I mean, it really is into the unknown.
	Sure, grounding, we're trying to make sure everything's alright, but things like static pickup, and then we've got differences between DC signals and AC, we're trying to make sure no DC gets down.
	But I mean, what we're finding already, the signals we're looking at, there's all sorts of things going on at different frequencies, and it's one hell of a job trying to sort out what the hell does this mean, what does that mean?
	There's so much to learn.
	It's so exciting at the moment.
	We simply don't know it.
	Thank you so much.
	You're very welcome.
	Now, Professor, here's another one for you.
	I'm a ham operator, and I operate a kilowatt rig over here, a thousand watts.
	If you were to be in the vicinity of a transmitter, of some sort, particularly an HF or UHF transmitter that
	might resonate, say, with the length of the lines that you've got now.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Oh, you could be in big trouble. I mean, you said that you felt a few indecipherable signals, very sharp signals, that
	could be radio stations or transmitters of some sort.
	order.
	What about that consideration?
	I mean, you're going to get on, for example, an aircraft where there's all kinds of UHF transmissions going on.
	And what about you coming to Arizona?
	What about all that?
	That's right.
	I mean, I'll be next week and the next week I'll be heading over there.
	Yeah, I mean, it is simply unknown.
	We hope everything is going to be OK.
	I mean, there's going to be enough problems probably getting through the customs and through the x-ray machine and things like that.
	Oh, I hadn't even thought about that.
	I didn't even think about that.
	But especially still with the September 11th, I think they've been a hell of a lot tighter after that.
	But you're right, pick up from here and there.
	I mean, I have to say, it's been now in place for three weeks, and I've had the connector pad outside my arm, it's there, so potentially it could have picked up this, it could have picked up that.
	Everything seems to be alright.
	What the little zings are, I think my best guess would be it's simply everything settling down.
	I don't think it's picking up something strange, but there's that possibility, yeah.
	Have you been In the weeks since the operation, have you been fairly isolated, you know, recovering, or have you been making the rounds?
	I think something in between.
	The first few days I stayed fairly isolated, really with respect to the surgeon that had carried it out.
	He really, before we said anything to anybody about what we'd done, he really wanted to make sure everything was okay.
	So I guess the first week, It was very much trying to stay at home and not wander out too much at all.
	But since then, it's very much out and about.
	And hence, that's been one thing importantly for the implant, that I've been doing very much normal things with my left arm.
	I'm using it as an excuse not to do the garden and cooking and things like that.
	I could have had some benefits from it, but apart from that, it's very normal things.
	Did the surgeon declare the surgery a success?
	Well, I have to say, they use all sorts of medical words.
	So, he was saying something like, there's been no unforeseen problems that we haven't... I mean, there's a whole load of medical terminology, which meant, in plain English, yes.
	A success.
	Okay.
	But he didn't actually use that word.
	I see.
	All right.
	First time caller line, you are on air with Professor Warwick in Great Britain.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Yes.
	I'm calling to ask you if you've seen the newspaper article that came out last week about the new robot designed by Sony Corporation and the little war they've got going against Mitsubishi and all that, all those other Japanese companies?
	I haven't seen that particular one, but I know the war you're on about.
	I mean, the last decade really has seen enormous advances, certainly in the physical side, but I don't know if that robot Is it an intelligent robot or what?
	Maybe you could... Yeah, well, this article was saying that this robot that they built has got, like, two cameras for eyes and it can distinguish a whole bunch of things from, like, the corner of the table.
	Yeah.
	And it can walk on carpet, you know, and it'll balance itself.
	And if it falls down, it's programmed to get itself up and it'll walk just like a person.
	And it says that, you know, if you ask a question, it'll answer you back.
	It's got an extensive vocabulary.
	Besides, you know, I can play music, dance, and do all kinds of stuff.
	I had heard that the Japanese were pretty far ahead in the world of robotics.
	A lot of stuff that hasn't made it over here yet, Professor.
	Is that true?
	Yeah, well, I had the benefit last summer.
	I was over in Japan doing some lectures and so on for about three weeks.
	And, uh, was able to work with the Honda team, particularly with their little ASIMO robot.
	And, uh, I mean, for me, it was absolutely fantastic.
	So certainly on the physical side, uh, yeah, I think they are way ahead.
	Uh, and then some of the things you're talking about earlier about us, it's not happened so quickly.
	It certainly seems to be really speeding up at the present time.
	And the Japanese are very much part of that.
	Isn't your government, since you're a Brit, isn't your government likely to be very interested in how your experiment comes out, particularly if you get more of a connection than you anticipated?
	Isn't there liable to be a knock at your door?
	One would hope so.
	I have to admit though, in the UK, whether government or otherwise, people tend generally, apart from myself, to be a little bit more conservative and a little bit slower to pick things up.
	So I think there's probably more likely to be a knock at my door from either the Japanese government or the US government in particular.
	That's more what I'm expecting.
	Well, we'd be guessing the Japanese over here were pretty cynical about that.
	All right, a wild card line.
	You're on the air with Professor Warwick.
	Where are you, please?
	Thank you.
	I am in Roanoke, Virginia.
	Yes, sir.
	My question, I had one for Mr. Warwick and one for yourself also, if there's time.
	Kevin, have you ever heard of a game called Shadow Run?
	I haven't, no.
	Okay.
	It's a role-playing game and it's evolved into a series of novels and all sorts of spin-off stuff has come from it.
	It deals with futuristic technology and they have source books that go into theoretical, I'm sure that nobody has done scientific research on it, detail on The very subjects that you're discussing, everything from, say, wired reflexes to make a human faster, to subdermal radio implants, to augmented strength, and all sorts of other things, using the techniques that you're talking about here.
	It's just really amazing to me to see it come to life.
	You may find it an interesting subject to look at, you know, if you have free time and you don't, you know, you want to do something to get away from your work.
	Professor, is it possible that through an interface of the type that you have now, or one down the line, there could be augmented strength?
	In other words, that the human body could be made to actually physically do things that it cannot do now?
	Oh, I mean, there's so many different aspects of the answer to that.
	I think the answer is very much yes, if you look at a sportsman who feels he's pushing the thing to the limit.
	The possibilities of, with something like this, of actually pushing a little bit further certainly come about.
	Well, we've all heard these stories of, for example, mothers whose children are pinned under a car will go over and pick that car up, and where that strength comes from, nobody knows.
	That's right.
	Well, maybe we're about to find out, I guess.
	I mean, if we can find out certain signals associated with the sportsperson, Uh, when they're pushing it to the limit or going for the world record, uh, and record those signals as they're doing it, then maybe we can tweak them a little bit and that pushes the record forward a bit more.
	So that woman with the car, if she had had an implant and we record those signals, perhaps she could repeat that very regularly.
	But I think on the strength issue, I think there's another aspect here.
	Uh, rather than looking just at, upgrading the human as far as extra strength because once
	you're connected to the computer
	then a computer and the network can bring about all sorts of physical things
	for you so rather than you lifting the car or moving forward
	just by thinking about it you can bring about some piece of technology to do
	an awful lot more for you so it's sort of externalizing your physical capability
	Yeah, but you were talking a little while ago about fighter planes flying themselves, essentially, because they can make decisions faster, or machines can, than human beings react faster, right?
	That's right, yeah, yeah.
	Well then, what do we need the humans for?
	That's the big question.
	I mean, that was something I pondered on, and in the Matrix, the answer was, well, they become an energy source for the machines.
	uh... which is one maybe it's a little bit over the top but uh... it certainly
	is one solution it is a big question what how do we fit into the
	technological world of the future
	i'm hoping as a cyborg there is a role to play but as a human
	it becomes a very big question here uh...
	well if for example uh... you could induce any human being the
	kind of strength we talked about with the mother and the child the car
	yes then there would be applications for conflict for sure I mean, if you had a soldier who was capable in short spurts of that kind of strength, you would have an army that could not be defeated, wouldn't you?
	Unless you had another army which had slightly upgraded ships and was able to give out a bit extra strength.
	Either way, it's the same old story.
	What?
	Who?
	Yeah!
	What is it good for?
	Absolutely nothing!
	What?
	Who?
	Yeah!
	What is it good for?
	Absolutely nothing!
	Say it again, y'all!
	War, who, who, who?
	What is it good for?
	Absolutely nothing!
	Listen to me!
	Ah, war!
	I despise Causing me the torture
	Of this life War means tears
	To thousands of mothers I have When their sons go to fight
	And lose their lives I said war!
	Good God!
	The End Every night I hope and pray A dream lover will come my way
	A girl to hold in my arms And know the magic of her charms Cause I want a girl to call my own I want a dream lover so
	I don't have to dream alone Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255, east of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033.
	Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255, east of
	the Rockies 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222 and the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	To reach Art on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them
	Dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Fell from the Kingdom of Nine.
	My guest is Professor Kevin Warwick in Great Britain, the first human cyborg.
	Dream lover?
	You take this technology on out a little bit and it's Britney Spears for all.
	Or one.
	If you follow me.
	There are some aspects of this that are so astounding that it's hard to even think about them.
	It's like thinking about how high is the sky.
	Dream lover?
	Oh yes.
	All right, Professor Warwick has a couple of books.
	You may want to investigate both of them, and you can get both of them.
	The first one really isn't available in America, but if you go to amazon.com.uk, You'll get there.
	It's called In the Mind of the Machine.
	Sounds like an absolutely fascinating book.
	His new book is The Quest for Intelligence.
	You might chase after both of these.
	I mean, when you're listening to somebody as committed as this man is to have actually turned himself into a cyborg, you might want to listen to what he has to say.
	Professor, that's something that I just wanted to cover very quickly.
	I was sort of joking about Britney Spears there, but Uh, really, once you have a brain connection of this sort, uh, one can only imagine some of the possibilities, which would include, um, a full-blown sexual experience, for example, uh, that you would experience as though you were, you were there.
	Oh, that, completely, absolutely, yes.
	I mean, for you it might be Britney Spears, for other people, other people, yeah, I mean, I mean, it raises all sorts of questions as to husband and wife relationships.
	I mean, if you... Sure, you'd go to the local video library and pull out probably some sort of flash card memory or something, you know?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Take it home and... That's it.
	I think for me it would probably be Meg Ryan, but... Meg Ryan?
	Well, yeah, Meg Ryan's... I'd certainly, yeah, take that one out several times, probably.
	But it's... How does that affect relationships?
	I mean, mentally... I don't know.
	Have you mentioned Meg Ryan to your wife?
	I'll find out right now.
	I'll try it tonight.
	Listen, even if physically you're not going through the whole physical thing, mentally you would be, so it raises enormous questions.
	Okay.
	Daniel in Austin, Texas by computer says the following, really interesting, which would be easier or more likely, the brain controlling a computer or the computer controlling the brain?
	Now, if you got into a full interface condition, would it be a mutual exchange of information, or would it be a control?
	I would see it as a mutual exchange.
	Maybe I'm looking at it through pink glasses.
	Maybe.
	I think, ultimately, maybe it's a very good question, because it would be unlikely, ultimately, that it's one human brain connected to one computer.
	It would be one human brain connected to a computer network.
	And then it's very difficult to, perhaps it's more the latter thing, it's more that the human becomes a node on the network, something like that.
	But it is, I think it would still be shared, that it would be a mutual thing.
	So, but you never know.
	You never know.
	I mean, you could get halfway across the Atlantic if you were hooked up and suddenly divert to Seattle and go see, you know, be compelled to see Bill Gates or something.
	Even that, yeah.
	But I think the Pink Glasses thought of saying the computer would be at your control, I can't really see that.
	I think the best or most realistic thing would be a mutual sharing, that it has got things that it is good at doing and you have got things that you're good at doing and you bring the two together, which is the whole concept mentally of a cyborg.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Kevin Warwick.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes, sir.
	You're on the air.
	Oh, yes.
	I have one quick thing, and then I want to ask a question.
	Sure.
	Where are you, by the way?
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	This is Ray from Smithfield, Virginia, WMIS.
	All right.
	Are you aware of the I'm not.
	fellow who is doing research into antlers and the process that animals that do have
	antlers use to grow them and shed them.
	I'm not.
	I must admit I'm not.
	There is a fellow who is doing this and his primary interest has been up until now amputees
	because what happens with antlers is that this is a growth of bone that comes out through
	the skin and then the skin forms a connection to it which is then impervious to disease
	and so on and so forth.
	That research has been going on for quite a while and it's something that if you want
	to do long term electrode through the skin you might look into.
	Another question that I had was whether you've looked into tattooing these external wiring
	things.
	I don't know in the latter thing.
	I mean the antlers point is a very good one as far as infection and that aspect, but the tattooing, I don't know, we're trying something different here with direct connections to the nervous system.
	Rather than just going locally under the skin or from the outside, we're trying essentially to make direct connections to the brain, and really this is a stepping off point, just connecting onto the nervous system first.
	If you wanted to be certain you were going to get a direct connection to the brain, where would you do the hook-up doctor?
	Not saying that you will not with what you've done, because you might, but if you wanted to really ensure it, where would you go?
	The spine?
	Yeah, I think going directly to the brain, you would tend to get itself, the brain itself, you get regions at the moment.
	So maybe you get a motor region, maybe you get the region to do with memory and so on.
	So you're getting a certain aspect.
	So I guess the top of the spine or something would look to be a good place to, you'd have to say that's probably the best place to go.
	Or directly to the brain.
	Yeah, but that might need a number of link-ups, a number of hook-ups.
	How much the brain could adapt, or whether it was just used, the connection first up, was just used for certain aspects rather than lots of different things.
	I mean, I don't think we can look at a one-to-one link, each brain cell connected to one wire.
	That's not realistic.
	But putting a number of ports, communication input-outputs to the brain, Yeah, I think that's possible, but where they go, we've got a lot to learn for that, I think.
	I interviewed a neurosurgeon professor that was doing spinal cord work, and he was implanting electrodes in a portion of the spinal cord, and he found out by accident, this is unbelievable, you might have read the story, I don't know, he found out by accident, working on some women well yeah and then uh... he could produce uh... just by
	pushing the button he could actually produce an orgasm
	in a woman you read about that
	or did i interviewed him in incredible and i mean so if that can be done
	yeah well to be honest one of the things we're looking at it with the spinally
	injured of course someone with a spinal injury that uh...
	sexual uh...
	is a lot of abilities are in a sense removed I mean, can we bring them back again?
	So it's looking at the whole thing, really.
	Yeah.
	He actually patented the process.
	I don't blame him.
	God help us all.
	Well, I don't either.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Warwick.
	Hello.
	Dr. Warwick, I've always understood that the heat factor would be a problem in increasing human performance.
	Would that be a problem in this application?
	Do you mean heat externally to the body or heat internally?
	Heat internally created by the electromagnetic field or also the added friction of, say, enhancing the muscular performance.
	Yeah, I mean, you may well be right.
	It's something we haven't yet.
	We're still trying to pick up, can we detect heat and cold and things like that.
	That's something we're yet to do.
	But how it affects the operation and how it affects performance, we're not there yet.
	It's a really interesting factor though.
	I'll report back.
	You remember the last time you and I spoke, we said once you're hooked up to the interface, just in terms of Uh, it reading you or the computer reading what's coming.
	Have you tried the old pain test yet?
	In other words, creating, you know, sticking yourself with a needle or something or another for and looking for the reaction?
	Well, that's what we're up to at the moment, but to be honest, it's a needle in a haystack, if I can phrase it.
	Literally a needle, because we have to find where to actually bring about the pain.
	Well, damn, that's going to mean that you're going to have to sit there with a needle and go...
	Oh, there it is!
	You've got it.
	Well, that's what we're up to.
	I mean, the one big advantage of using the hand is that there are so many sensory pickup points, the touch sensors and so on.
	So you're going to be sort of a human pincushion.
	Oh, exactly.
	Exactly, yeah.
	And then suddenly we'll get a signal and...
	But again, it's what signals exactly are we looking for?
	Was the woman before talking about different frequencies and so on?
	Sure.
	And so it's not only scanning through all over my hand like a little pincushion, it's looking through all different frequencies, and then you have problems with earthing.
	So there are all sorts of technical problems, which is fantastic, really exciting scientifically, but it's very laborious at the same time.
	How much of a team do you have to help you out?
	All right, yeah.
	Well, I guess there have been something like 30 different people involved to get us where we are at the moment, but on a day-to-day basis, there's about, say, four or five of us in the lab, and some are looking more at the medical side, which is literally what we've been talking about there, trying to map out what we're doing.
	And then there's a couple of guys working more on the sort of cybernetic-y projects.
	In a couple of weeks' time, we're hoping that I can do a demonstration from the nervous system to control some of the technology in the building here, just to get the coffee maker to come on and things like that to show what will be possible pretty soon.
	So there's some more on the medical side, but there's a small team on a day-to-day basis.
	Okay.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Professor Warwick.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Yes, Art.
	Yes, sir.
	Funny topic.
	Professor Warwick, I've talked to individuals, I'm a researcher, Who claim that they have implants in their brain and they claim that there are certain unnamed government agencies, the NSA and private contractors responsible for that.
	I have three quick questions.
	They claim that their thoughts or maybe their sub vocalizations are being read using portable devices like a Walkman in real time and that there are these real time experiments capturing their brainwaves using magnetic amplifiers and satellite uplink. Now, they also claim that
	the NSA is trying to access their unconscious mind as some kind of cywar experiment.
	Alright, well that's getting pretty far out there, but Professor...
	Yeah, I have had quite a few people contact me with the same lines. I have to admit, technically
	from what we understand at the moment, it is very, very, very unlikely.
	I mean, this is the scientist in me not saying it's 100% untrue.
	But, you know, you always allow a certain element of doubt, but I am very, very skeptical.
	Yeah, but Professor, my own government has a history of being exceptionally interested in mind control to the degree that they used guinea pigs in chemical experiments with LSD and all kinds of incredible things that nobody would have believed until they made it public.
	If they were that interested in mind control, Yeah.
	Then obviously the technology that you're now immersed in would be, it seems to me, an irresistible temptation for them.
	Oh, certainly, yes.
	And you really don't know what's going on behind closed doors, I have to admit that.
	You can find out some of it eventually, but Yeah, I agree with you.
	And they've got some really big closed doors, too.
	Oh, for sure, for sure.
	Yes, I expect very much.
	Could I just say, talking about books and things before, all of what I'm going through here, I have a new book.
	This is a plug for a book, but a new book, iCyborg, which really is detailing the operation, why we're doing it, and also the results as they happen.
	So you are now writing this, or it's already written?
	Well, no, I'm writing it as we go.
	So every so often I take a little bit of time out.
	And I mean, hopefully there'll be an American publisher for it.
	It's certainly Random House in the UK, which is a big publisher, publisher.
	That'll turn out in the middle of the summer, I guess.
	Oh, I think an American publisher will be right there for it.
	Believe me.
	Well, I hope so.
	It's like you're keeping a diary.
	Yeah, exactly, but it's a diary in the form of a book, literally, saying, before we do this, this is what we're expecting, and then, well, when we actually did it, this is what we found.
	And detailing the operation and what went wrong and what happened and how it felt to have sort of an electrocuted hand and things like that.
	And so you think perhaps by mid-summer you'll be done?
	Yeah, it's scheduled August in the UK, so hopefully the US then or just after or something.
	Don't let your publisher push you too far to do too much.
	They can do that.
	You know, come on, let's get this 9-volt battery on there.
	You're determined to try that 9-volt battery.
	I have to try the art test, I think, and do that one just for you.
	Don't do that.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Professor Warwick in Great Britain.
	Hello.
	How you doing, Art?
	Okay, sir.
	Well, this is the second time I've called your show.
	I'm still nervous, because as soon as you picked up the phone, my heartbeat rate went about twice as high as it was.
	Take a deep breath.
	Okay, I'm okay.
	I had a question for you, Professor Warwick.
	Sure.
	Well, first of all, how old are you?
	Forty-eight.
	Okay, at least you're honest.
	The question I had for you was regarding the brain of a computer.
	Like a piece of software, how fault-tolerant is the brain?
	Yeah, that's a very good question.
	I mean, sometimes we don't know really.
	Sometimes it seems to be extremely fault tolerant, and people such as stroke victims, they have a serious problem occur, and yet it is able to get back sometimes completely to normal, but other times it's a major problem.
	So now, going back to what you were saying about Uh, and what you were saying, Art, about static electricity, this sudden, um, voltage, sudden high voltage signal at ascent, but if it's the right kind of signal, um, do you suppose that there is, um, like a computer virus, something that could be sent into the brain that would shut it down, send somebody into a coma?
	Yeah, it's possible.
	Isn't it, Professor?
	Yeah, I would have thought definitely possible.
	I mean, I hope it's not going to happen with me, but, uh, If I suddenly stop talking in the next few seconds, then, you know, that might have been... Let's hope I keep talking.
	But, yeah, no, you're quite right.
	Or certainly change the way it's working in a less serious way than that.
	Yeah, that has got to be a distinct possibility.
	How long did it take you before they let you go from airport security when you kept trying to tell them, hey I'm a human cyborg, how long before they let you go?
	Oh, well that I'll tell you next week.
	I haven't actually travelled, I haven't actually flown with it until next week after this digital art symposium at Tucson.
	I thought I remember reading that you had been stopped at airport security because of some piece of hardware that was in you.
	Oh, no, I think that's a guy, Steve Mann.
	I mean, up at Toronto, he carries it all, there's a load of technology he carries on the outside of his body.
	For me, I did fly with my previous implant, which we talked about before, which is like an identification thing, and really there wasn't any problem with that one.
	I'm just hoping that this will be the same.
	Uh, I mean, I could end up actually getting to the United States and not being able to get back again.
	So if somebody's got a spare room somewhere, I might need it in a week or so.
	You know, another movie that came to mind really quick is Johnny Mnemonic.
	The fact that he could store, you know, hundreds and hundreds of gigabytes in his brain with an interface from the computer.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I think that sort of thing, I mean if it's stored in the computer but the
	computer is linked to the brain looking at it that way then that sort of thing
	becomes realizable. I don't know necessarily storing it in the brain I
	see more of a rather than having the chips or the computer in the brain more
	a radio connection to the computer is much more realistic I feel.
	All right, caller, we've got to scoot.
	We're out of time.
	All right, thank you very much.
	Professor, it has been, again, first of all, wow!
	Thank you for the interview.
	I'm really glad the operation is an apparent success, but still, we've got to do another program because I have a feeling the big results are just around the corner.
	Oh, you're sure, yeah.
	On the operation, on my website, people can go and have a look at some of the pictures, but beware, the pictures of the operation and so on, that's www.kevinwarwick.com.
	We've got a link up, so you can actually see the gory opening up, huh?
	That's right, and there's a photo gallery there, and you can go and see some pretty bloodthirsty pictures, yeah.
	Professor, have a wonderful day there, and it is daytime now.
	And it's beautiful sunshine, even though it's England.
	It's gorgeous.
	Yeah.
	Have a great day.
	Thanks.
	Cheers.
	Good talking to you.
	Good night.
	From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
	Tata.
	Falling in love was the last thing I had on my mind.
	Holding you was a warmth that I thought I could never find.
	Just trying to decide.
	I'll stay by your side.

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