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April 4, 2002 - Art Bell

02:46:18

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Kevin Warwick - Cybernetics

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01:09:02

kevin warwick

01:01:30

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest eventual, good evening, good morning, good afternoon, where you may be in the nursery 24 times on my bell, and this is post, post, post, posting with you.
		I was supposed to welcome a radio station to discover, but I don't know what I've done to welcome.
		Oh, here it is.
		Just have a look at the right file.
		It's a WPWS in Champaign, Illinois.
		1400 on the battle in Champaign.
		There's an interesting name for the city.
		Where do you live?
unidentified		Oh, I live in Champagne.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So hello there to the General Manager and Program Director, Stevie J. Thank you very much for uh including us in the way of 500 stations now carrying this program.
		I can't I see a significant amount of conflict in the first two real scary stories there.
		You know the real news.
		The real mainstream news.
unidentified		Big conflict.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hit the battle second.
		Tomorrow night.
		Ghost to Ghost AM.
		This mood hit me last night somehow.
		About mid-show.
		The night before, was it?
		No, night before.
		But last night.
		Getting old.
		Either way, Ghost to Ghost AM tomorrow night.
		Now, looking at the real scary stuff, what's going on, for example, in the Middle East, under pressure to curb Middle East violence, President Bush urged Israel today to pull his troops back from Palestinian cities and dismiss Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat as a failed leader who, quote, betrayed the hopes of his people, end quote.
		Now, what I don't get here is a U.S. envoy, this is second story, a U.S. envoy was Zen to meet Friday with Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat after the Palestinians in Israel welcomed a new peace initiative by U.S. President George W. Bush while Israel continued its offensive in the, you know, in the West Bank.
		Israeli forces there conducting house-to-house searches in Nablus and other cities, and they're just going to do as much as they can, I guess, which is probably what I told you last night.
		I think we probably told Israel more or less, you know, go in there, you have so long, go in and route them out, and then you've got to stop.
		Now, of course, the risk in all of that is a war.
		Of the likelihood, probably slim in my estimation.
		In other words, I don't think this is going to end that way.
		However, eventually it will.
		They say.
		The FBI has failed to comply with a presidential order that requires agents who work with the nation's most closely guarded secrets to disclose details of their money finances.
		Now, that's not good.
		I mean, that's how you find spies.
		I mean, spies are the people who otherwise wouldn't have a lot of money.
		They're civil servants, right?
		And, you know, if they have a yacht and they have a house in Zurich or something, you know, and a little cottage down in the Bahamas somewhere, these are reasons you might want to look at them.
		Right?
		They haven't been doing that.
		Shocking details of how two bored teenagers butchered husband and wife Dartmouth College professors in their home in a plot to steal their ATM cards.
		There's a good reason to kill people, right?
		Spilled out in court today, case ending with the two getting life sentences or 25 to life.
		An 18-year-old, 17-year-old get 25 to life.
		Now, in the other news, this just broke today on MSNBC.
		You can read all about it if you want to.
		In an extraordinary case of looking in the right place at the right time, astronomers recently spotted an asteroid previously detected 50 years ago.
		Observing the asteroid gave the researchers enough information to predict the asteroid's path over the next eight centuries and to discover a chance that the kilometer-sized space rock may collide with Earth on March 16th of 2880.
		Well, not too many of you are going to get real concerned about something that far ahead, huh?
		You'll be dead, buried, and so will your children, and maybe theirs, and so forth.
		So, in a lot of ways, for a lot of people, even though March 16th, 2880 is going to be a bad day for Earth, one would imagine by then we're going to figure out how to alter its path that really is headed.
		You know, it's actually a slim chance, but there is a 20-minute window of time when it could hit.
		And if it did hit, it could kill millions of people.
		But, you know, still, 2880 is a very long way away.
		The thing that you have to worry about, and what they don't tell you in these articles, you know, it was a big deal today, I guess.
		Some of the major networks reported this major collision at 2880.
		Worry more about the ones that you don't hear about, the ones that you hear about a day or two after passage.
		The news stories will always begin the same way.
		It was discovered today that two days ago, Earth had a close call.
		That is inevitably the way the wire stories begin.
		And the fact of the matter is, you don't really see the ones that are going to hit you.
		Just the way it is with a bullet, you know?
		Because actually you don't hear the bullet that hits you, it just goes thunk, and then, of course, you're concerned with the thunk and you're not hearing the bang at all.
		Check this out, folks.
		The Food and Drug Administration has cleared the way for Applied Digital Solutions Inc.
		to begin selling an implantable chip that would contain personal identification and medical data, said the company on Thursday.
		It said it had received a letter indicating the FDA does not consider the chip a medical device under its jurisdiction.
		VeraChip, a small device about the size of a grain of rice, emits a radio signal and has been derided by some for its, quote, big brother, end quote, implications.
		Applied Digital has said it could prove invaluable in emergency situations.
		The patient is either unconscious or can't otherwise reveal information.
		It should sell for about $200.
		Now, you're going to have to get in line to get yours.
		A scanner used to read the information contained in the chip would cost between $1,000 and $3,000.
		So here come the chips, folks.
		And while we're on that subject, you may recall we had Professor Kevin Warwick on the show.
		You may or may not have heard that program.
		And so let me read you the Associated Press story on Professor Warwick.
	Surgeons in Oxford have carried out groundbreaking operation on a cybernetics professor so that his nervous system can be wired to a computer.
	Professor Kevin Warwick, the world's first cyborg, part human, part machine, hopes that readings can now be taken from the implant in his arm of electrical impulses coursing through his nerves.
	So in other words, when we had him on the program, this is a fascinating story.
	You know, when we had him here, he said, well, he was going to do it.
	He was going to have the operation, and the operation was coming, you know, in the next week or two.
	And I said, well, we did a great program on the subject.
	And I said, well, Professor, when the operation is done, how about coming back?
	Well, it's done.
	And now he is the world's first cyborg.
	And tonight, he will be back.
	And in the meantime, you can go get your own.
	As a matter of fact, after this announcement by the chip maker, shares of Applied Digital rose $0.04 or 8% to 52 cents in Thursday trading on the NASDAQ stock market.
	And it's tough to rise on the NASDAQ on any day.
	So I guess we all may be in line eventually.
	Now, the Professor, of course, has gone far beyond Verichip.
	But it is interesting that again, on the day that we're going to be interviewing the Professor, the FDA has cleared the way for any or all of us to get chips implanted in our bodies.
	Oh, gee, I can't wait.
	Now, I don't know whether I should be telling you about this or not, because I don't want to...
	But I'm going to err on the side of caution.
	I'm getting a lot of emails, a disproportionate number of emails from people who suddenly feel a catastrophic event of some sort is imminent.
	And most of them are not saying what, and then you get the usual sprinkling of earthquakes and volcanoes and all the rest of it.
	Asteroids, who knows.
	But just a disproportionate, suddenly all these emails from diverse, different kinds of people saying that they feel something catastrophic is imminent.
	And so I'd be remiss in not mentioning how many of those I'm getting.
	I suppose I could bring more by just mentioning it, but, well, here's one as an example, and I intentionally picked the one I picked here because of who these people are.
	They say they're pagans.
	And it reads, Art, many in the pagan community are suffering from disturbing or violent dreams for the last two weeks.
	I'm a member of several online pagan groups.
	And the question has been floating around only within the last couple of days regarding the quality of dreams and sleep of many pagans lately.
	And I'm sure a lot of you out there, Christians, say, well, they're pagans.
	Of course, they don't sleep well.
	Anyway, the response to these queries has been quite disturbing.
	It appears that for two weeks prior to 9-11, many pagans were having disturbing and or violent dreams.
	Well, they're having them again.
	Most of us are having very vivid dreams or are unable to sleep at all.
	Some of us fear the current trend in dream disturbance means something absolutely horrible is on the horizon, particularly with what's going on in the Middle East.
	The earth is screaming in pain at what's happening.
	She's letting those of us tuned in to her know something horribly is wrong, and we may just find that in the next few days, our world will have radically changed yet again.
	So I thought I would just bring you one of the unusual ones, and that there it is, from pagans.
	Well, it may be, you know how I've always said that I believe that cloning is about to either take place or has already done so.
	This is a pretty interesting story, and it comes from Dubai, you know, where Dubai is, right?
	A woman taking part in a controversial human cloning program for infertile couples is now eight weeks pregnant, according to Dr. Servino Anatori, the well-known Italian doctor involved in the cloning project banned in his home country, and of course here in the USA.
	Speaking on his flying visit to the UAE, that would be Dubai, to lecture at the conference on future of genetic engineering and debate on cloning programs throughout the world, he revealed, quote, our project is at a very advanced stage.
	One woman among the thousands of infertile couples in the program is eight weeks pregnant.
	He was replying to a question on the status of his project, which he had outlined last year along with another doctor, a Kentucky-based infertility expert.
	He refused to reveal the country from which the woman comes.
	He said we have about 5,000 infertile couples in the project now.
	So not having to read between the lines here, it would appear as though the first public clone is on the way in the cooker.
	And I wonder what you all think about that fact.
	In other words, it was inevitable.
	I knew it.
	You knew it.
	Everybody knew the clones were coming.
	But now in less than nine months, one of them is going to be here.
	Maybe it'll just be a sort of a happy, normal child.
	But I have severe reservations, severe reservations.
	Well, here's a cheery little story entitled, it's from ABCNews.com.
	Polluted Coastline.
	Check this out.
	Nearly half of all the waters off the coast of the United States, that would be everywhere, folks, East Coast, West Coast, everywhere, Gulf, nearly half of all waters in the U.S. are so damaged that they cannot fully support aquatic life.
	For instance, more clams once came from the Great South Bay on New York's Long Island than any other place in the U.S. But the harvest has deteriorated steadily since 1976.
	Certain clamming areas now are closed after rain because of runoff.
	EPA gave poor marks to the northeast and great lakes.
	The worst coastal waters, it said, were in the Gulf of Mexico, where in some places there is no fishing at all.
	Best marks went to the waters off the southeast and west coasts, but those were graded only as fair.
	So in other words, half of all our coastline is polluted to the degree that so damaged they cannot fully support aquatic life anymore.
	Now it seems to me that ought to be a pretty big bell going off.
	This one is not, of course, from Mother Nature.
	This is not some long cyclic thing that occurs.
	This is all of us.
	You know, what we're dumping into the oceans one way or the other, either directly or indirectly.
	You know, most things make their way to the ocean, right?
	And so the hand of man directly is involved here.
	You think about that.
	Half our entire coastlines can no longer fully support aquatic life.
	And that's from us.
	That's not from some mysterious new bug or algae or bloom or whatever.
	That's just from us.
	Something to think about.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		I have an idea for an electric car you might like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do?
unidentified		Using pistons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An electric car using pistons?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would you have pistons out of curiosity in an electric car?
unidentified		Well, I'm real mechanic, but I believe it would give you more horsepower.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
unidentified		Well, because you have more units, more things driving the motor or the driving piston.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what I'm saying is, though, that a piston in a combustion engine is usually driven up and down by the little explosions caused by the gasoline, right?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if it was just electric and you had to drive the pistons, wouldn't you be doing extra work?
unidentified		You could use magnetism.
		If you put a magnet on the end of the piston and an electromagnet at the bottom of the cylinder, you alternate the magnetic current and it moves the piston up and down.
		You know, how old are you?
		Fifteen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fifteen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have just said something fairly important, possibly.
unidentified		Well, I'm the caller that gave you the idea to use time-warmp field generators to speed up the decay of nuclear waste.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
		Okay, then I remember you.
		Well, I must say, you know, when you think about that a little bit, I wonder, you know, if you modify what he's said a little bit.
		So he would use electromagnets.
		Well, that might be one direction, or another direction simply might be permanent magnets.
		What if pistons were outfitted with very, very strong magnets, whether they be electromagnetic or whether they be simply magnetized, very strong permanent magnets?
		As the piston did its work, it would attract, repel, attract, repel, attract, repel, wouldn't it?
		And so, gosh, I wonder if that young man some of you great thinkers out there might apply some of your thinking to what he just said.
		He's kind of got an idea there.
		I just suddenly got my head ticking.
		You know, there might be some sort of magnetic aid.
		I'm not talking here about some sort of a machine, mysterious machine that'll get, you know, 5,000 miles to the gallon, but you might suddenly get a whole lot better mileage if you used magnetism in the piston process.
		What an interesting thought.
		Thank you, young man.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Post to Coast A.M. In the nighttime with open lines between now and the top of the hour, and then the professor who's got the implant in his arm now.
unidentified		Now.
		Sweet dreams are made of this.
		Who am I to disagree?
		I travel the world and the seven seas.
		Everybody's looking for something.
		Some of them want to use you.
		Some of them want to get used by you.
		Sweet dreams are made of this.
		Jack jumps over the candlestick.
		He jumps so high up above.
		He landed in the cradle of love.
		Well, rock-a-bye, baby, in the treetop.
		When the wind blows, the cradle will rock.
		So, rock-a-bye, baby, in the treetop.
		When the wind blows.
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To reach Art on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		in the streetlight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		the wind blows gonna wonder if the wind is not just not blowing our cradle is not just about rock anyway stay right where you are open lines straight ahead and into the night we go east of the Rockies you're on the air hello hi all right this is Jenny in St. Petersburg Jenny how are you okay Jenny what's up well I was a little disturbed about the email you got from the pagans
unidentified		You know, I think that a lot of people confuse Wiccans and pagans with Satanism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I don't care who they are.
		All I'm telling you is I'm getting a mass of emails, not just from pagans.
		I just picked that one out because it was interesting.
unidentified		I don't find any prediction from them to be very disturbing.
		Because pagans really try to attune themselves with the forces of nature.
		Yes.
		And so they may be picking up something really heavy coming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, that's what they're saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there is a disturbance in the force.
unidentified		They say the motto of pagans is do no harm.
		It's really different from people who are Satanists.
		And I guess the name kind of frightens people, but I myself have been picking up some things for a few days.
		I'm a real novice myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You too, huh?
unidentified		I've been picking up something the last few days, yeah.
		Yeah.
		The other day I had a really strong vision of someone on a mountain who was really evil, looking down on...
		I don't know.
		It was a little disturbing, but I would think that if you're getting emails from pagans who say that they are having visions...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'd pay attention to those.
unidentified		I would pay attention pretty seriously to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, gotcha.
		Thank you very much.
		Well, just a lot of people.
		I mean, it's not just pagans.
		I read one because I just wanted to read a representative email.
		I'm getting a lot of emails, you know.
		And so you think to yourself, well, do you report these to everybody?
		And so the answer is yes.
		It doesn't mean anything is going to happen.
		But on the other hand, it doesn't mean it won't either.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you are.
unidentified		Oh, there I am.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, dear?
unidentified		I'm calling from Spokane, Washington.
		Okay.
		And I worked up at the DART facility at Los Alamos National Laboratories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You did or do?
unidentified		I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		I was fired for blowing the whistle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		I worked up there, and I turned the contractor in, not only for shoddy construction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't tell me any names or anything.
unidentified		I won't, because I don't be in deep doo-doo.
		Yeah.
		But also for safety concerns.
		And they were shut down for 15 days on the safety concerns.
		And I don't know how much I want to say over the air, but with the worry and everything from the pagan email, I'm also a pagan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you too?
unidentified		Yes.
		And what they're saying is true.
		I've been having nightmares about this facility.
		I have written to the president.
		All of my mail is being sent back to the Department of Defense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So do you know about something that's going to happen?
unidentified		Yes, I do, but I would much rather stay off the line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		it's not going to be a dirty site it's not going to be pretty okay I I'll tell you what based on what you've already said and identified I won't take it any further on the air and you the way you're going to have to do this is contact me by email.
		And then I'm going to have to make a decision.
		Now, I'll tell you something, folks.
		The other day, about a week ago, some guy called, you may recall, and really, you know, put me in a jam.
		I mean, he said, you know, Art, I know why holes that are greater than 10,000 feet drilled into the earth are classified.
		That's what he said.
		And I said, oh, why?
		You know, I want the answer on the air, really.
		And he said, well, if I give you the answer, it would hurt the national security of the U.S. Do you still want me to tell you?
		I sit there and, you know, what are you going to do, right?
		You're on the air nationwide and beyond to half the world or the whole world.
		And what are you going to say?
		Oh, no.
		Let's go ahead and slaughter the security of the U.S. Go ahead and tell me.
		So I said, no, send it to me an email.
		Well, it never showed up.
		So what do you expect?
		Do you expect that I was told a tall story on the air just so somebody could hear the sound of their own voice rattling through a speaker?
		Or do you think the guy really knew something and did send an email, which then got intercepted?
		We know they can do that, right?
		Or that he was just, you know, so I don't know.
		And I don't know what you do with calls like the one I just had either.
		something so horrible that she doesn't want to talk about it and she has inside knowledge all i can say is email me uh...
		or Who do you trust anymore?
		Do you trust your email?
		Probably not.
		Is it being monitored?
		Is my email being monitored?
		Oh, you can bet your bottom dollar my email is being monitored.
		You know, they've got that big computer and it can look everywhere, you know, telephones, email, all the rest of it.
		We all know what's really going on.
		And even if it's not legally going on here in this country, England does not quite have the same law as we do, and they could monitor something from the U.S. and then, of course, the information would make it back to the U.S. So technically they've not violated the domestic law against listening to us all.
		But I'm well aware that it's monitored, so it's chancy saying email, but I don't know what else to do.
		First time call our line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello.
unidentified		Okay, I'm from Perum.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, here and down.
unidentified		Yeah, here and now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the station you're listening to.
unidentified		Isn't that awesome?
unidentified		Listen, I have to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
unidentified		Stay the station.
unidentified		Oh, oh, K-9.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		K-9.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
unidentified		Please.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can White, you're 95%.
unidentified		And thank you for the t-shirts and the coffee mugs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you got the t-shirts and coffee?
unidentified		I got one.
		My ex-husband got one.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
unidentified		Parked at the grocery store.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's wonderful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we're out there giving away.
unidentified		You guys really are.
unidentified		I got a whole bunch of things to tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, fire away.
unidentified		You're awesome, for one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, thank you.
unidentified		Secondly, I saw the balloon go over your house that night.
		Oh, you did?
		Ah, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, thank God.
unidentified		You were not imagining it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was at 2 o'clock in the morning.
		My wife rushed in and said, there's a hot air balloon coming over the house.
		I went, oh, my God, at 2 o'clock in the morning.
		Sure enough, there it was.
unidentified		Wasn't that the best?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You could hear the guy going, you know?
unidentified		So it probably went over by the flat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It must have been so cool to take a balloon ride at that time of the morning with a big old full moon out there.
unidentified		Yeah, it was beautiful.
		Yeah.
		Anyway, okay.
		And the earth changes.
		I'm coming home from Las Vegas.
		I go in every day and was coming home late, so it was dark.
		Just coming over the pass on 160, as you're descending that pass, summit, I thought I saw a cloud.
		And I thought, well, maybe it's smoke, whatever.
		And it turned out to be the car.
		My truck got pilted.
		And I thought, what am I going through?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now your truck got pelted with what?
unidentified		Oh, I'll tell you in a second.
		I'm going, what is this?
		Is it raining?
		Is that hail?
		So, pretty dark.
		So I waited until I got home.
		I got pelted with bees for two miles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you say bees?
unidentified		Bees.
unidentified		Insects.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Up on the mountain between here and Vegas?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Two mile long.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Two miles of bees.
unidentified		Two miles of bees.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, I would put the metal to a pedal to the metal there and I'd be through.
unidentified		Two miles of time.
unidentified		I had no idea what I was going through at the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
unidentified		Of course, I didn't stop.
unidentified		I just kept going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good moves.
unidentified		We're talking about changes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And if you can imagine, first of all, bees don't swarm at night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And so what's going on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Beats me.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, as you said, I've been getting a lot of emails, and a lot of people are having a feeling now, close in, that something's coming pretty quick.
unidentified		And I do, too.
unidentified		A lot of us here in Vegas in Promptu.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we live in a, you tell them out there, we live in a pretty strange place here, don't we?
unidentified		Oh, we most certainly do.
		Absolutely.
		Strange and wonderful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, thanks for giving the station a plug and have a good morning.
		You're welcome.
		Take care.
		All right.
		That's a K-N-Y-E listener.
		That's 95.1 unit prompt.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Good evening, Art.
		It's your lead Tim from up here in Cold Lake, Alberta.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's up?
unidentified		Not much.
unidentified		Other than the phone lines tonight are doing weird things, aren't they?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Phone lines always do weird things.
unidentified		The thing was over in the Middle East, that horrible situation, you know, we've talked about Nostradamus quite a bit in the past.
		But when they went into Nablus just in the last few days, first thing that jumped to mind was Mabus.
		You know, we've talked a lot about we beat that to death.
		But I just wondered if there's a correlation between Mabus and Nablus, because at the end of that Quantrain, which is 62, he talks about we'll run the comet.
		In other words, the passing of a comet, and we actually do have that this period of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, yeah, we've got comets right now, more and more every day, and comets portend change.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They do.
unidentified		And he also says that he states that he gives the word 100.
		100, hand, thirst, hunger, which is what is going on in Palestine right now.
		They're cut off from food and water, basically.
		But 100, if you use 100, as he has done before, before the end of the year or after the end of the year, 100 days would put us at April the 11th.
		And with what you were saying earlier at the bottom of the hour about how these different groups are having dreams and whatnot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		you know because i get thousands of emails a day and uh...
		so i get to monitor what's right Yeah.
unidentified		This is a little vague.
		All he talks about is the vengeance is seen, and we're seeing vengeance now.
		And he just talks about of animals and beasts, a horrible defeat.
		So, you know, that's kind of wide open for interpretation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was going to say, that could be interpreted in almost any way at all, and almost laid onto any event that would occur one way or the other.
		So I'm not ignoring these, and maybe it's just sort of a 911 flashback people are having, you know, some sort of effect or another.
		Or it could be the real McCoy.
		There's really no way to tell.
		East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
		Good morning.
		Well, that is, if you turn your radio off, you're going to be on the air.
unidentified		I got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am in Marshville, Pennsylvania.
unidentified		I'm listening to 1210, The Big Talker.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir, out of Philadelphia, WPHT.
unidentified		You got it.
		First of all, I just want to say I listen to you as much as I can every night.
		I purposely go out and pick up some late-night food to listen to you on purpose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah, it's a lot of fun.
unidentified		It's a nice way for me to get away from my business and just drive and just listen to all the cool things that are going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand that.
		Night driving is my favorite in all the world.
		I would rather drive at night than during the day any day.
unidentified		Absolutely.
		It's no traffic.
		Nobody's around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
unidentified		What I wanted to say was about last night when you had the GIS on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Had they ever thought of having their electronic voice phenomenon test going on during an autopsy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, brother.
unidentified		I know that sounds kind of sick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, it is kind of sick, actually.
		But, yeah, I mean, it's a pretty good suggestion.
		But, you know, it really, what I get from that night and the night before and all the rest of it is that we definitely survive death with some form of consciousness.
		And I don't know about you, but the last place I'd want to be is present at my own autopsy.
		I don't even listen to my own shows.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Much less wanting to sit there and stand there or hover there, probably, more likely, and watch somebody delve into my insides.
unidentified		Yeah, it should be a curiosity testing, whether or not the person's going, no, no, don't do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No doubt revealing the ravages of all my bad habits and commenting on them as they come upon them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, thank you.
unidentified		Absolutely.
		Hey, can I get a quick plug-in about business?
		Is that okay, or are you against that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, when you put it that way, no, I don't want to do it.
		I mean, if you come up and said, well, you know, I work for so-and-so, that's all right, but you can't sort of directly plug a business.
		Otherwise, it's called a commercial.
unidentified		True, true.
unidentified		It is my own business.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so for the rest of you there, think about it this way.
		If you preface it by saying, can I plug my business, then you sort of put it out of bounds.
		If you say, well, you know, I work for so-and-so, then you've said something personal.
		But when you're saying, can I plug my business, no, that's more like a commercial.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		How are you tonight, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pretty okay.
unidentified		All right.
		I have two fantasy authors, two fantasy interviews.
		I'd love to have heard you do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they would be.
unidentified		And fortunately, both men are dead.
unidentified		Dead gummet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're dead?
		Well, that doesn't mean on this program that we can't interact in some way with them.
		So what do you have in mind?
unidentified		Luce Lemour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's going to be hard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		And Robert Heinlein.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Robert Heinlein.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well.
unidentified		Have you ever read anything by either one of the gentlemen?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're both authors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course.
unidentified		And I know Luce Lemour in the latter part of his career was starting to write about the unusual, put it that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Well, that's because people who investigate the unusual and are open-minded have no other path to travel.
		This is true.
		So, you know, I can't make any promises, but, you know, I get all kinds of guesses here.
		So you never know.
		You never know.
		I'm reminding you again, tomorrow night is Ghost to Ghost.
		Now, listen to me closely.
		We only take the best, scariest ghost stories.
		And there's such a plethora of ghost stories available that we can afford to be choosy.
		So if you only have a mediocre ghost story, don't call.
		If you have a premium ghost story, then call.
		battle b tomorrow night ghost to ghost all the way if you have encountered But if you have encountered that which was alive in the physical sense at one point, then tomorrow night is your night.
		First time colourline, you are on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		My name's Mark, and I'm actually a pretty new listener to your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's okay, and that's good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		St. Louis, Missouri.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		St. Louis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		K-D-R-S.
unidentified		Yes, exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I just kind of wanted to make a comment about it had to touch on you guys were talking about cloning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we may have our first clone in the cooker.
unidentified		Well, this is, I just kind of wanted to throw this out there.
		And I could be crazy.
		This is just a hunch of mine.
		I myself am a Christian, so I don't know if you've heard of the books.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He hung up.
		He hung up.
		Maybe he was going to refer to a book that he suddenly fled his mind.
		Actually, there's a lot of talk we could do about the first clone being in the cooker.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm okay, sir.
unidentified		I'm listening to 1510 WLAC out of Knoxville, but I'm in Fletcher, North Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that tells you how far it goes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		First of all, I want to thank you for taking the calls the way you do without going through a screener.
unidentified		That's great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't use screeners.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't believe in them.
unidentified		And I'll be quite honest with you.
		I don't know if you've tossed out a subject for the evening or not, but I'd like to bring something up that happened to me in the mid-50s.
		I'll be 60 in August.
		So I grew up in the 50s, and this was in Miami, Florida.
		I'm a little nervous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, just go ahead.
unidentified		We lived in a section of Miami called Alapata.
		It was on 51st Street, and our house sat in the back of our lot.
		The neighbors to the rear of us, their house was in the front, so their backyard was like the playground for all the local kids, the neighbor kids and whatnot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
unidentified		He was a contractor.
		The man, his name was Hunt, but it's immaterial.
		He was a contractor, and he had different things set up in his backyard.
		One of the things he had was a long stack of pipes.
		These are clay pipes.
		I forgot if they were black with that red clay color, but they were banded together.
		And they had chased me off of this a couple of times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which made you all the more curious, I'm sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We only have about a minute.
unidentified		Anyway, one day I thought I was going to see how far I could reach down in there, and I fell in.
		And there was nobody at my house, and the neighbors to the side of us.
		And I went down headfirst, and my feet was below the top of the pipes.
		And I was yelling for help, and one lady, she pulled me out.
		I never thanked her because back then, I was more concerned about getting in trouble.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I understand that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who do you think that lady was?
unidentified		Well, I think she was my guardian angel.
unidentified		But she was the only lady home, and the jealousies just happened to be open in the kitchen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So should you have known her?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, she was there in a yard.
unidentified		I was yelling for help.
unidentified		I was yelling for help.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And with only your feet sticking out.
unidentified		My feet weren't even sticking out.
unidentified		They were below the level of this lip.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, brother.
unidentified		I was down in there against the dirt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's your first name?
unidentified		My first name is Norman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Norman.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the Norman baby in a pipe.
unidentified		Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, listen, I'm out of time.
		The show is over this hour.
		I've got to go, and we've got to get a call into Great Britain because he's gone and done it.
		Professor Warwick has gone and had the operation.
		Details coming up.
unidentified		I've been aware the eagle flies, rolled his wings across all the skies.
		Kissed the sun, touched the moon.
		But he left me much too soon.
		He's later.
		He left his labor.
		Ladybird, come down.
		I'm here waiting on the ground.
		Ladybird.
		Be it sight, sand, smell, or touch, there's something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of the touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak leaves deep in the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing, to lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing.
		All these things in our memories are, and they use them to help us to fight.
		Fight, fight my soul, take this place, on that strip, just for me.
		Wanna take a ride?
		Well, call our bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		And to rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with our Bell on the Vremier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much coincidence do you believe in?
		This is an interesting program for a number of reasons.
		News story dated April 4th.
		FDA clears implantable chip for market in the U.S. That's right.
		Clears implantable chip for market in the U.S. The FDA has cleared the way for applied digital solutions to begin selling an implantable chip that would contain personal ID and medical data.
		You can get your chip for about $200.
		I don't know what it's going to cost to get put in you, but about $200.
		The reader costs between $1,000 and $3,000.
		It'll be a little transmitter inside of you.
		So on the NASDAQ, their stock rose $0.04, or 8% to $0.52.
		We had, I don't know, now, a couple of weeks ago, Professor Warwick on, and here's another Associated Press story.
		How coincidental, huh?
		Surgeons in Oxford have indeed carried out a groundbreaking operation in cybernetics, in a cybernetics professor, actually a cyborg now, I guess, isn't he?
		So that his nervous system can be wired directly to a computer.
		And the Associated Press story goes on from there.
		But when we had him on last, he said he was going to have the operation.
		And tonight we actually have him here to talk about the operation because it's all over.
		Dr. Kevin Warwick is, in fact, a professor of cybernetics at the University of Reading, UK, where he carries out research in artificial intelligence, control, and robotics.
		His favorite topic is pushing back the frontiers of machine intelligence.
		Kevin began his career by joining British Telecom, with whom he spent the next six years.
		At 22, took his first degree at Aston University, followed by a Ph.D. and research post at Imperial College London.
		He subsequently held positions at Oxford, Newcastle, Warwick Universities before being offered the chair at Reading at the age of 32.
		Oh, that's definitely prodigy age for that kind of position.
		Kevin has published over 300 research papers.
		His latest paper back, In the Mind of the Machine, gives a warning of a future in which machines are more intelligent than humans.
		He has been awarded higher doctorates both by the Imperial College and the Czech Academy of Sciences.
		Prague has been described as Britain's leading prophet of the robot age.
		He appears in the 1999 Guinness Book of Records for Internet Robot Learning Experiments.
		In 98, Kevin shocked the international scientific community by having a silicon chip transponder surgically implanted in his left arm.
		That experiment allowed a computer to monitor him as he moved through halls and offices of the Department of Cybernetics at the university with, you know, as he would use an identifying signal technique emitted by the implanted chip.
		He could operate doors, lights, heaters, other computers without so much as lifting a finger.
		And now the professor has entered the second phase of the investigation.
		On March 14th, an operation was carried out at the Radcliffe Infirmary, Oxford, UK, to implant a microelectrode array into the median nerve of Professor Kevin Warwick.
		This new custom-built implant should be able to send back signals, in fact, actually two-way between the professor's nervous system and a computer.
		Both movement and sensory signals are to be investigated along with attempts to measure signals associated with physical emotions like anger, shock, excitement.
		This is the world's first operation of this type, and coming up in a moment, we've got him on the line from Great Britain.
unidentified		Great Britain.
unidentified		Great Britain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here is Professor Kevin Warwick from Great Britain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, welcome back to the program.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Cheers, nice to meet you again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great to have you.
		You know, just before we get started, Professor, I heard that, of course, we have daylight savings time here, too, which I think is insanity.
		We should have it all year long, but we're going to have to spring forward the clocks here this coming Sunday.
		And someone earlier today told me when they were setting up the interview with you for tonight, that you folks in Great Britain change your clocks a week before we do.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think there's nine hours difference now.
		We went ahead of the game, I think.
		No idea why that is.
		I was glad we sorted it out.
		Otherwise, I'd have been sitting on the end of the phone for about an hour and there would have been nothing coming through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that's the damnest thing I ever heard of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's bad enough that we change the clocks, but we're not even doing it evenly with our best friends, the Brits.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's absolutely crazy.
		But I don't know.
		Maybe we'll have a day soon where we don't bother with all these time differences.
		We just operate the world on one time or something like that.
		I think with the Internet and the world connections, it's probably possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So when we last talked, you know, you've got to imagine tonight that there are those who did not hear the first program we did.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Certainly there are.
		And you for some time have had an implant in you which could sort of, I don't know, turn on lights without clapping and close doors or do whatever.
		Right?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you were mentioning the applied digital solutions thing.
		In a sense, it was something very much like that.
		It didn't operate in exactly the same way, but it was an identifying chip as you described earlier.
		And we'd got the computer in the building here, cybernetics building at Reading University set up.
		So as I walked through different doorways, it knew where I was.
		And we had it actually monitoring.
		It knew when I went into a room, when I left a room, exact timings.
		But we got it opening doors for me, switching off the lights.
		And coming through the front door, it said, hello, Professor Warwick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		Well, now, you know, I've got to thinking about that.
		And while I would want to ask about your personal situation, do you think the average guy would want to have his wife monitoring the Internet, let's say, watching whichever room her husband was in, you know, 25 miles away?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		There's always the big brother issue, like you're saying, whether it's a person's wife or husband, because women could have chips like this as well.
		That's true.
		But also computers monitoring.
		I think there is a worry that that aspect of it.
		But again, with smart cards and the sort of credit cards we have now, in a sense, it's more looking at it that way.
		And hence I would see, as well as there being potential worrying aspects, there are potential positives that you could use something like this as a very safe credit card, something that is not going to get stolen.
		You're not going to lose it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how do you take this news?
		In other words, our FDA here in America has basically said it's none of their business.
		And so they've said, go ahead.
		So this company is going to get to go ahead, and I guess that means everybody gets to go ahead, that it really has nothing at all to do with the FDA, period.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, I can see quite why.
		If a person is willing to have something implanted, I understand it now.
		It's quite a simple, a relatively simple injection.
		Mine at that time, this is now four years ago, required a minor surgery.
		It wasn't particularly painful, but there was local anesthetic involved, so it was a little bit more serious.
		But now technology has moved on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, how is your chip powered?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Well, that one, that one was powered, it had a little induction coil.
		I think this is similar to the ADS system.
		So it doesn't have a battery or anything in it, and you need to pass, put a bigger coil nearby, which you have in a barcode reader or we have in various doorways here at Reading.
		And quite simply, the bigger coil induces electricity in the smaller coil, which is in the coil of wire, that is, which is in the implant itself.
		So that provides, by induction, magnetic induction.
		A guy called Michael Faraday discovered it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm quite well aware of what it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any storage capacity at all within it?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Not with that one, no.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Well, the only sense there was is that we could reprogram the code that it was transmitting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, no.
		I meant electrical storage.
		In other words, once you had the inductor nearby, would any excess energy be stored to keep the chip going once you got out of range?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Not that way that we got it set up.
		No, no.
		It was just at that moment, you had the energy, it could transmit signals, it could receive signals at that time, but once you moved out of range, that's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		I think that's the same with the ADS thing.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's the same.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		So then, after you have had plenty of experience with that chip in you, you recently, I know, decided to have this operation, which is pretty complex.
		And basically, you have, well, now that it's over, it's the operation has happened.
		But the intent of the operation was to do what?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, it did take quite a bit of time to bring about, both technically and getting through ethics committees and things like that.
		So a lot of paperwork involved.
		But the main intent is to link my nervous system with the computer, either by literal hard wire, so literally the one possibility is with wires that go from my nervous system into the computer, or which is the more usual route that we'll be using, and that is we've got a radio transmitter pack, so mainly it'll be connecting my nervous system to the computer by radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they had to take basically all of these wires and rip open, well, rip open.
		Surgeon wouldn't say rip open, but open up your arm and get to the nerves and wire into the nerves.
		Something you thought was going to be about an hour's worth of operation, if I recall.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was guessing at an hour from what they'd said.
		But of course, it was the first time this operation had ever been carried out.
		So there were an awful lot of unknowns.
		Even the surgeon was guessing, well, we'll try it this way.
		But it lasted just over two hours in the end.
		So it was one hell of an experience.
		I just had local anesthetic, although it was regional from my elbow down to my hand.
		So I could still move my fingers around, still feel with my, which was important.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I recall also that you said that you expected a strong possibility you would lose part of the control of your hand.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That's right.
		The moment in the operation when there's an array of 100 pins, essentially, which make a hardwire connection to the nerve fibers.
		And the moment before that was fired in, the surgeon checked with me, okay, you ready for this?
		And it's one of those moments in your life that you, you know, I was there, okay, I've built up for this for several years, but he's about to fire it in, and you think, well, this is it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you say fire it in, what do you mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		100 connections, how do you fire 100 connections at once?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's on a little array.
		It's on like a hairbrush, but much, much smaller, obviously.
		And then the whole array is fired in in one go with a very sort of miniature pneumatic drill.
unidentified		Bang, bang, bang.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean so if you could picture this little tiny millions of little brushes, little connection points, and it's fired into the nerve, how do they match or do they just assume that they're going to get X number of connections to the nerve firing it in?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what we're about.
		I mean, it's very much into the unknown.
		I mean, medical research in this area, people may be tend to think, oh, we know about how all the nerves work.
		Very little, very little is known.
		And one thing we're hoping to do is actually move things on a little bit by Professor, that's kind of like firing a shotgun.
		Yeah, well, very much so, yeah, yeah.
		So, I mean, it was at that time, it was very much, maybe I could have lost at that instant a lot of movement or sensations in my fingers, thumb, and so on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he said, are you ready?
		Yeah.
		Go for it.
		And they fired away, and then I suppose the first thing they did is say, try to move something, right?
		Well, wait a minute.
		You had an anesthetic, so you couldn't.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, no.
		I had local around where the connection was, but I still could move my fingers or thumbs.
		So most of my fingers and thumbs were still free to move and feeling there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you feel any immediate difference?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
		Well, not difference in the sense of loss of feeling or so on, but when he fired it in, yeah, there was a sort of like a bolt of electricity running down thumb and finger and so on.
		So like a mini-electric shock, I guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		And to be honest, I mean, jumping ahead, we talk more about the operation, but jumping ahead over the last few weeks since then, I get occasional Zings, as it were.
		I don't know how else to describe it, but sort of electrical impulses that sort of shoot down a finger.
		It's not painful at all.
		In fact, from a scientific point of view, it's quite exciting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think that means?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that means that there are nerves attaching to the electrodes, we'll call them?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		I would think it's...
		I think there's the possibility simply of the connection settling in and the nerves regrouping.
		But there's also, because I've got a connector pad linked to the outside, so I mean, they might be picking up some static or something like that, and I'm literally getting signals picking up radio stations or something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is the entire apparatus contained within you now, or is there an external portion?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		There is an external.
		When we were actually developing it, at one time we were looking to go for a complete implant, so everything would be self-contained, which I think from a medical point of view is the preferred option long term.
		But really, scientifically and medically, it's very much a step into the unknown.
		And hence we needed most of our electronics on the outside so we could try it out.
		And, well, it's not working as well as we hope.
		Let's change something.
		Let's modify it.
		Let's try this instead of that.
		And if it was implanted, of course, we'd have to open my arm up every time we wanted to try it.
		So we've got some inside and some outside.
		So I've got literally a connector pad.
		There's some wires coming out of my arm, and I've got a connector pad which then we connect up to our interface unit from time to time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long did you wait after the operation until you hooked it up the first time?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, to be honest, it was a couple of weeks.
		The surgeon wanted to, I mean, he was in control of the situation, and he wanted at least one week before he was happy that everything, just from a medical point of view, that it looked as though it was healing up, that it looked as though there was no rejection, that in particular, that there wasn't any sign of infection getting in.
		Of course.
		And that was the critical thing.
		I think because we got wires coming out, the big, big worry was that if you get some infection around the point where the wires come out of the body, it can just zip down those wires like wildfire and get straight into the nerves.
		And then you're into a dead hand time.
		The whole hand could just stop.
		You get all the nerves infected directly.
		Because the nerve fibers have this sheath, a coating around them, which I suppose we've evolved for protection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would happen if that occurred?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, is that a fatal possibility or is it what?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Well, I suppose that there is that possibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, the surgeon must have sat you down and warned you about what the possibilities were.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure, sure, sure, sure.
		But I guess, again, because no one's done it before, there is that in the extreme case, but because no one's done it before, you're taking risks, but you don't really know what the risks are until you've done it.
		And here, I think infection getting down into the nerves, because we've broken through the covering, the sheath that covers the nerves, so we're opening up the nerves to possibilities of infection that haven't really been done before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you are now the world's first human cyborg.
		I mean, we've had cyborgs in science fiction, you know, for as long as I've been alive, but now you actually are the world's first cyborg.
		How do you feel?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Well, tremendously excited.
		From the point of view of scientifically, every day is an exciting day.
		I mean, one problem is because nobody's been there before, you don't know what to expect or what to feel with anything we're doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you feel the machine in you in a way?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		I rather not.
		I've just become instantly attached.
		I almost don't notice it there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Instantly attached.
		All right, Professor, hold on, or rather instantly attached.
		Great line.
		The world's first human cyborg is my guest.
		And he is Professor Kevin Warwick from the High Desert.
		I'm Art Bell.
		right there.
unidentified		You are the one through the night.
		Oh, oh, oh, oh.
		Oh, oh, oh.
		Reachart Bell in the Kingdom of Nineveh.
		From west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-8255033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
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		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with our bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The first implant ships for human beings just got approved by the FDA today here in America.
		In Great Britain, they're far ahead of us.
		My guest, Professor Kevin Warwick is the world's first cyborg.
		He just had an operation, an incredible, absolutely incredible operation, and we're just beginning to learn about it.
unidentified		So stay right where you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back across the land and the pond to the professor in Great Britain, Professor Kevin Warwick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, you know, a really important first question for me is, do you now have full use of your arm and your hand?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.
		Well, yeah, I do, certainly.
		No problem with it at all.
		Throughout the operation, Peter Teddy, the surgeon, every so often, he would stop and say, can you still move your fingers?
		Can you still feel this?
		Can you still feel that?
		And I was delighted to be able to say yes all the time.
		And now it's been in for a while and everything's fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you can move your fingers as much dexterity as you always had, no reduction whatsoever?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no problem at all.
		I'm still terrible on the piano, just as I always ever was.
		Yeah, no problem.
		It's really, I mean, as we were saying before, when he fired the pins into it, I mean, it was at that moment that sort of you really feel in yourself, wow, this is it.
		It could be a dangerous moment.
		I could lose all sense of feeling and touch.
		But as it happened, it turned out okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, since those nerves are hooked, when they fired it in, which is kind of an odd term, when they fired it in, then obviously the local anesthetic didn't mean much to the nerve chain that went further up your arm into your body, right?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		No, that's it.
		I mean, well, it seemed all right going back up to my brain.
		I didn't know that I had any, but of course the feelings were coming through from my fingers, so I suppose it was going both ways.
		It felt like a small electric shock when the array got fired in.
		I mean, as it happened, because it was a bit of a research thing in itself, the operation, when he had a first go with it, we hadn't quite got the system wired up right, and it didn't, I described it as a bit like a pneumatic drill hammering the things in, and it didn't actually work properly first time, so we had to have a go at it again.
		I see.
		But people think, oh, the operation's all scheduled, and it goes ahead and there's no problems with it.
		That wasn't quite the case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you don't want to think, I wouldn't use the term pneumatic drill in an operation.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		It was like a mini one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Small pneumatic drill.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		It was exciting being awake.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		I mean, having a general, I could have had a general, but I think it was important for me to be awake during the operation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'll bet your surgeon felt the same way, too.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, exactly.
		Exactly.
		He could then ask me questions.
		How's that feel?
		What's that like?
		And so on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So now you have how many wires that come out of you?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		We've actually got 20.
		We've got 20 small, very, very small wires, and they come out onto a connector pad, which is about the array itself is positioned just up from my wrist.
		There's a two-inch incision, which you were saying about cutting me open before.
		There's a two-inch incision, and that's where the array is positioned on my median nerve.
		There's then a bunch of wires.
		The surgeon had to tunnel up my arm about 15 centimeters, and the wires actually come out a little bit down from the elbow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wow.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		I think if anybody's seen the film The Terminator, where Arnie Schwarzenegger opens up his arm, and he's got all wires and things.
		I'm a bit like that at the moment.
		I've got a bunch of wires running up my arm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wow.
		You know, it's interesting.
		Here in the desert, we have very low humidity, and when you walk across a rug and you touch somebody, you get a shock.
		I mean, even my little cats, you touch them, both of us get a shock, you know.
		Now, Great Britain is pretty humid, so you may not face that problem, but I was wondering, oh, my God, I mean, what if somebody should shuffle across a rug and touch you at the wrong moment?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Maybe, I mean, it's describing that.
		You're right with humidity, but I am scheduled next week, as it happens.
		I'm visiting University of Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you are?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That'd be a very dangerous trip for me.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		We'll be able to report back as to what actually happened.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		There's a digital arts symposium next Thursday and Friday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Arizona?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		In Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're going to be hopping around like a frog in a second.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		We'll see.
		You're putting me off now.
		I've changed my mind about it.
		So we'll see scientifically if it will prove you right or prove you wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Interesting, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you thought you felt a shock before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, you know...
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Every day I do get the odd...
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		I would call them little zings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me tell you how it is out here.
		You can get about an eighth of an inch spark that jumps between two human beings or a human being and a piece of metal or a cat or whatever.
		And while it's, of course, very small amount of current, it's extremely high voltage, actually.
		And if that were to connect with one of your wires.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're right.
		But we'll see.
		We'll see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Well, anyway.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Only one way of finding out, that's for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you yet attempted a crude interface to any of the wires with any sort of with your computer interface?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we've actually looked at picking up signals, monitoring.
		We've not yet gone ahead with any putting signals down.
		And the good reason for that is that because it's doing it for the first time, actually trying to make sense in any shape or form and understand what the signals are all about is proving to be a little bit more of a challenge than we previously imagined.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, you hook up some of the wires to an interface and you're looking at a computer readout which is monitoring, I suppose, subtle voltage changes.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
		I mean, it's literally on the nervous system.
		It's Microvolts, you're talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand, but I mean, you, for example, would clench your fist, I guess, and then watch for a reaction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you getting a reaction?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, clear as a bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
		Oh, yeah.
		We've actually done it mainly the hard-wired way.
		So, with the wire, literally a wire connection to the computer.
		And, oh, yeah, yeah, I can safely say I've interfaced, that's for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
		What about other things?
		For example, if you are experiencing extreme discomfort or extreme joy or some extreme emotion, do you believe you've seen that register?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		We haven't tried anything like that yet.
		I mean, we certainly plan to, and I think from what we've seen so far, like you described earlier, sort of physical emotions.
		So the sort of thing when if I am to get excited and those signals appear, I feel my best guess is that we are going to see something.
		Again, getting some understanding of the signals, what the hell they all mean, is going to be quite a challenge.
		But yeah, I think we're going to see something.
		And certainly, even if we don't understand the signals, we can take one thing and say, well, these set of signals relate to when Kevin's very excited.
		And then when we see the signals again, we can say, yeah, he's very excited.
		Well, that's quite a rig.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's quite a rig you've got inside of you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, if at some point you feel that you have reaped as much benefit as you can from this particular experiment, is it removable?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		The planner, well, we hope.
		I mean, as far as I'm aware, this particular array has been put into animals before, non-human animals before.
		Not by me.
		I've not done anything like that.
		And when it's been removed, it's been terminal cases.
		So essentially, a rabbit has had the array and then after it dies, they take it out again.
		I don't fancy for science going through that bit.
		I think that was...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, I know better.
		Jamie, I get these computer messages while we're on the air.
		In Oakville, Ontario, up in Canada, says, Art, you know, a few programs that you do upset me as much as implant ones.
		Beautiful wrapping for such an invasive and dangerous concept.
		Just think of what the government and corporate America could use this for.
		Unbelievable.
		Very unhappy with this kind of thing.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think quite rightly.
		I think it is something that, and one reason we're doing it is probably to stir people's emotions so we can start discussing it.
		And it's great you're giving it airtime because unless people understand what technology can do now, what is available, I mean, this is not science fiction we're doing here.
		This is science.
		This is actually having things connected to my nervous system, linking it to a computer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		And it's important for people to look out.
		There are enormous positives to go with it for helping people with disabilities.
		But as your caller is saying there, there are enormous potential negatives.
		And unless people start discussing it, as perhaps people have been discussing the whole cloning issues and genetics, then things are going to go ahead behind closed doors and things might happen and we're not realizing it.
		What we're doing is open.
		We're saying this is what we're doing.
		So it's good that somebody's calling in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, I don't know if you got the story, but Dr. Servino, apparently in Dubai, is announcing that the first human clone is eight weeks along in the cooker.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Well, there you go.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You and I talked a little bit about this in the last program, but here you go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, the first human clone is less than nine months away.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and this is the problem.
		You're saying Dubai.
		Yes.
		Different countries have different ethical regulations to go through before you can carry out particular investigations.
		And like we've done this in the UK, whether we could do it in the US just yet, I don't know.
		Maybe now you can because we're going through it.
		But there in Dubai, potentially the ethical problems associated with doing something like that are a little bit different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even where you are in Great Britain, what were the ethical considerations and arguments, and then how did you finally get approval to do this?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, the first thing was the array that's actually fired in, because it's a one-off thing, it's just me we're trying on.
		We're not sort of trying it out on 50 volunteers or anything.
		Therefore, it's not considered to be a medical piece of technology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly the way the EPA ruled here.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Oh, there we go.
		Well, that's it.
		And that avoids a lot of committees if it's not that.
		So the only really ethical committees, the paperwork we had to go through, were at the hospital that we carry the operation out.
		Each hospital has an ethics committee.
		As it happens, we went through two hospital ethics committees for a double check.
		But that's the main ethical consideration.
		So there aren't, in fact, the overall ethical issues, which the caller from Ontario was pointing to, should we be doing this sort of thing?
		Where's it going to go?
		There isn't really anybody to say yes or no.
		There's no international group that looks at that or anything like that.
		It's just really locally the hospital saying, medically, is this all right?
		Can the surgeon do it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you went, I guess, before these two ethical boards.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was there any dissent?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		No, the one board just said, yeah, go ahead with it.
		The other one, because the median nerve is the main bunch of nerve fibers going down from the brain to the hand, the thumb and fingers.
		And there are one or two more periphery nerves.
		The ulna actually operates on the small, the little finger.
		And there was a question there, well, are you sure you want to go for this main nerve?
		Because of the dangers associated.
		If something goes wrong, it could be pretty serious.
		But so we had to substantiate that the positive point with going through this nerve because we're doing it to help a lot of people with spinal injuries if we can move things forward in that area.
		And if we went for a lesser nerve, the results we felt would be in themselves much less.
		So, in going for it, we thought it's best to go for the main one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how did you, out of curiosity, how did you justify the jump to a human, even yourself?
		In other words, there must have been an argument saying why aren't we doing this at the animal level?
		Why do you feel that you, even doing it to yourself, have to move it this high a level?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think there have been quite a few animal studies now with this particular type of array.
		But of course, with any animal, a non-human animal that is, you don't really get the same sort of feedback.
		You can't really say, is that hurting, or how does it feel, or can you move your fingers around, or your claws, or whatever it is, and what does that feel like in terms of what are you sensing?
		And hence, the whole investigations are very, very restricted.
		You don't even know whether the animal is in pain or not.
		I mean, it could be, and this was a big question for us.
		Okay, a chicken has an implant, and how does the chicken show pain?
		You don't know.
		And really, one of the things we're looking for on the positive side with this implant is the potential for use on people with spinal injuries.
		The prime popular example would be Christopher Reeve that people know about, his brain is fully functioning, but he's paralyzed from the neck down.
		And in the future, for people like him, can we at least restore some movement?
		Or can they control their environment to a small extent?
		That would be the big hope, and that's really a key aim of what we're doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that any of this research will benefit Christopher Reeves in his lifetime?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		My guess would be it could do if he's willing to carry out.
		Yeah.
		I mean, I would have thought within the next decade, what we're doing here should have some pilot studies at least carried out, which will be helping people.
		I mean, for somebody like that, if he could just move a finger or two to pick up a cup or press a button or something for his dignity, for his ability would be enormous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about in his case, I guess all of the now I'm just stabbing around in the dark here, but all of the nerves are severed, essentially.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, there's no transmission of information anywhere for anything, right?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		And his is the worst case, right at the top of the spine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		what i'm about to ask you about is instead of putting in an external uh...
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		device of some sort of what if i mean if you can essentially fire as as you would put it uh...
		fire at these nerves and get some sort of connections why shouldn't a person like myself imagine that you could do You can splice in a piece of wire and all of a sudden get a connection again.
		Why couldn't you imagine doing a splice?
		In other words, firing one set into the bottom set of nerves and one set into the top set of nerves.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think you can imagine that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		It hasn't been done yet.
		And hopefully, it's sort of bridge over.
		I mean, exactly that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, kind of like a bypass.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
		And the hope would be that maybe that will be possible in the next few years.
		Maybe pretty quickly.
		I think we still have an awful lot to learn about the spine and nerves and so on.
		So I don't think we can imagine as yet it's going to be a one-for-one, that each nerve can be connected up.
		But even if firing in an array like I've got, and then on the other end firing in an array lower down over the brakes, I think that would bring about something.
		And it's certainly a very exciting way to go ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, how likely is it that as time passes, all this array of connections that you liken to like a hairbrush, a teeny weeny little hairbrush, will begin connecting to nerves.
		In other words, will begin forming connections that at the moment of the operation were not fully complete and sort of grow into it, as it were.
		Is that likely?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		I think it is.
		Philip Kennedy's work at Emory, he had been working really with single electrodes with stroke victims, and there the results after a while implied very heavily that that was going on.
		I tend to feel that probably what happens is if your body, particularly your brain, feels it is gaining something from this piece of technology, then it tends to go for it and it may well grow together very much.
		If conversely it feels it's doing something negative, then it probably tries to reject it.
		So we're particularly excited about looking at giving me extra sensory input, which is one of the things we want to do, ultrasonic senses, which humans don't have.
		And then I think we may well see that the nerves start to link up more strongly with the technology, really become one with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		All right.
		Well, that brings on many questions.
		In other words, when we get back, I'll be interested to know if I guess this is in parallel with your nerves.
		Obviously, they haven't been broken, so it's in parallel, which means that the wires are also connected to the professor's brain.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We were on fire and no one could save me but you.
		A strange world desire will make foolish people move.
		I never dreamed that I'd meet somebody like you.
		I never dreamed that I'd meet somebody like you.
		No, I don't want to fall in love.
		I don't want to fall in love.
		Lighting your head and dead on your feet.
		Well, another crazy day.
		You're feeling out of way and forget about everything.
		This city desert makes you feel so cold.
		It's got so many people but it's got no soul.
		And it's taking you so long.
		I thought you were wrong when you thought I'd held everything.
		You used to think that it was so easy.
		You used to say that it was so easy.
		But you're trying.
		You're trying now.
		Call our news.
		Bell in the Kingdom of Nigh from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255 East of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033 First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222 and the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295 to rechart on the toll-free international line call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nigh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As of this last Sunday, it's a nine-hour spread to where Professor Kevin Warwick is.
		He's the first human cyborg in the world.
		And so we are spanning those nine hours at the speed of light for you, and that's who we're interviewing.
		Think about that.
		The first at anything.
		How often do you get to be the first at anything, the first human cyborg?
		More in a moment.
		Stay right there.
		All right, back now to Great Britain and to Professor Kevin Warwick.
		Professor, I was thinking about this, and of course, in the case of somebody with a spinal cord severance or any nerve that is severed, you would go in with the kind of thing that you've got and a shotgun fire at one of the severed ends, I suppose, in an early experiment.
		However, in your case, essentially, you fired into a parallel situation because your nerves are all still connected both to your fingers and your arm and your brain on the other end, right?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly right.
		There's no problem that I was trying to correct or anything like that.
		So I was firing directly into nerves that were fully functioning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the connections are not only melding themselves in the direction of your arm, but in the direction of your brain at the same time.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Exactly, yeah.
		The nerves are, it's a bit like a freeway to the brain, or in this case, from the brain down to the hand.
		That's exactly what it is, very high-speed route.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, do we know for a fact, we know so little about nerves, do we know for a fact, and I know we touched on this in the last program, but it's so intriguing to me, that the nerves that go or make their way from the brain to the hand and the arm are only pathways that have to do with the movement of the fingers and the arm and the articulation and all the rest of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or is it somewhat possible that the neural connections that you're establishing that are going to your brain could deliver messages in a bi-directional manner that would have nothing at all to do with your hand or your arm?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the thing.
		As well as the movement, which is down from the brain to the fingers, you've got the root back as well.
		The touch and pain, all of those sensations, they're being delivered back up to the brain.
		And then there are some other nerves knocking around that nobody really knows what they're doing, whether it's sort of evolution and they were there for some other purpose or something.
		But yeah, I mean, what we want to do is tap into some of the sensory nerves which are normally, which we hope we've got.
		We hope we've got some.
		We're finding that out at the moment.
		But instead of use them for touch, for feel, is to feed down ultrasonic signals.
		We have a bunch of robots that use ultrasonics, which is a bit like a bat senses the world, a high-frequency sound.
		Humans don't have that sense, but we want to feed down onto the nerves the output from those sensors.
		So to try to give me an alternative sense directly to my brain.
		And that's where we'll really be looking at the point you're making there.
		Can we feed in different information directly to the brain and get the brain to hopefully make sense of it, make use of it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if that happens, then, Professor, you are really in the Twilight Zone.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, but for real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right, for real.
		No, I meant for real.
		I mean, you're really in the Twilight Zone because then all of a sudden you could begin, I mean, potentially at the far end of the possibilities at this, you could begin to interface with a computer in a way that no human being on the planet would even have a clue about, right?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, for sure.
		For sure.
		Yes, yes.
		I mean, we're looking at some specific signals there, ultrasonic, that we know what they're about and that my brain hopefully can make some sense of them.
		But of course, it's looking at a whole range of signals, maybe signals that nothing like have been on the nervous system before.
		What the brain is going to make of those signals, I think when we get towards the end of the experiment, we'll probably try a few weird things.
		as long as I'm still okay for it, we'll try a few weird signals and see what happens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mark in Tempe, Arizona expresses the view of others when he says freedom means nothing without privacy.
		No matter what the benefits, no matter what the benefits, it is a step toward the ultimate invasion of privacy.
		Imagine if you needed such positive ID to buy or sell, Hitler would have cheered.
		That's, of course, again, the downside of this kind of thing.
		And what do you say to these critics?
		I'm sure you get email and stuff from them, don't you?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, to be honest, 99% of emails is very positive and questions about what we're doing, that sort of stuff.
		So it is the minority, but it is an issue.
		I mean, in a way, the telephone was an invasion of privacy.
		It sort of made the world smaller and people could...
		I'm not connected 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
		At the moment, I can choose when I'm connected and when I'm not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At the moment, yes.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		At the moment, yeah.
		When I am connected, yeah, it's a different matter.
		It's linking myself up to the computer.
		If the computer is linked to the Internet and the web, then it is opening things up in that route.
		I think if the previous caller referring to the possibility of governments and so on being very intrusive and maybe implanting people against their will and having them connected up all the time, that is a different matter.
		And that for sure, I think the caller there saying that it's an invasion on privacy, I would agree completely.
		There are all sorts of ethical questions and issues.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, then how do you begin drawing the lines?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As the technology marches forward, thanks to people like yourself, and you get to the point where you have to draw those lines, how do you draw them?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a difficult line to draw.
		It's only society, maybe, and society is different in different countries.
		Even what I was describing, an extra sensory input, an ultrasonic input, for me, it's something extra.
		Humans don't have that.
		It's sort of upgrading humans, and you might think, oh, that's negative.
		We shouldn't be doing that.
		But on the other hand, for somebody who's blind, then it could be good, not to repair their blindness, but to give them a different sense, to help them to move around.
		So you say, well, should somebody be able to have this because they're blind and somebody else not because they're not blind?
		It's a very, very difficult line to draw.
		And as with genetics and cloning, there are enormous issues, positives and negatives at the same time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, then who would be the one or the group to most properly decide and then regulate on all of this?
		Would this be in private hands, would you think?
		Would it be by necessity a decision made by the government, legislated or in the parliament or whatever?
		I don't know.
		I mean, who?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't know.
		I think it would have, whatever it is, it would have to be an international body.
		I can't see the, okay, one government regulates that may act against itself as a country, because if other countries are going ahead and you end up with the military, particularly working with soldiers that are upgraded, they have extra senses, maybe they have infrared senses, they could have a bit of a one-up on the opposition.
		And particularly when we look ultimately at direct connections to the brain and the possibilities of upgrading memory capabilities and, in particular, communicating directly from the brain, which I see as a distinct possibility, if some countries have regulated against that and other countries have said, well, it's all right by us, then it's giving those countries quite an edge.
		So I think it has to be international, which means a big sign-up by all countries, which is a very, very difficult thing to bring about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe your experiments will drive us toward talking about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess that's what this is all about.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		I hope so.
		I hope so.
		We have to talk about it.
		It has to be raised.
		There are enormous moral and ethical issues here, much, much greater than the cloning issues, I feel.
		And we've got to start talking about them because the technology is with us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If the wildest thing happens and you find out that the neural pathways mate and mate and mate, and as that develops, and as you hook yourself up finally in a bi-directional manner to a computer,
		Professor, and you find out that your neural pathways to your brain are capable of transmitting information that would have nothing to do, perhaps, with the movement of your hand or your arm, but just directly to your brain, and you begin to experience an actual interface with a computer.
		That is such a wild, unimaginable thing.
		I'm sure you've thought about it.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Well, I'm at the moment tremendously excited about it, but also, as you might imagine, extremely tense.
		I mean, there's the scientific part on me that says, yeah, this is fantastic.
		We've got to see, which has been going all through the experiment, which overcomes the dangers that are involved.
		But on the other hand, yeah, it's a very tense thing.
		It's a very scary thing, as it were, because you just don't know.
		We try it out, and if it's changing you physically a little bit, it's one thing.
		But if it's changing you mentally, then it's a whole different ballgame.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but that's the ballpark you're in.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, very much so.
		Very much so.
		Yes, yes.
		I mean, it is, for those around me, and I guess myself, the mental changes are a very worrying one because the brain is quite an adaptable thing.
		It changes in itself.
		But this way, we're sort of enforcing changes onto it.
		And you might change One aspect of it, but that has repercussions elsewhere in the brain, and you have all sorts of side effects which may not be exhibited immediately, but may appear in years to come.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How's your wife doing?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, she's just fine.
		She's been great, absolutely brilliant.
		Which I've needed somebody a shoulder to lean on and so on.
		And over the whole period before the operation, we were up and down.
		Is it happening?
		Isn't it happening?
		We had a few delays here and there, as you might imagine.
		And then the operation itself, she was extremely supportive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was there ever a moment when she came to you and said, look, Kevin, I don't know?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I think, yeah, regularly, a while back.
		I mean, she's known that it's been a scientific drive for me to carry this out.
		And hence, she, I suppose at first, are you sure?
		You know what you're doing?
		It could mean, and some of the issues you're raising, it could mean that mentally you're changed, are you want to go through that?
		And it's the same with my family asking those questions.
		But she's known for some time, yes, we're going for it.
		And so she's been sharing with me the feelings when there's been a delay due to some paperwork or there's been a problem with the technology and it's delayed us.
		And she's known that that's, I don't know, it's affected everything in our lives.
		So she's been extremely supportive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you mentioned you've got 18, 20 wires coming out just below the elbow there.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		That's right, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How does she react to that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, is it like, honey, those wires look actually handsome on you?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		It's not every husband that has a bunch of wires coming out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's my point.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if I wasn't married, it would be a wonderful chat-up line, wouldn't it?
		Do you want to see my implant?
		I mean, not everybody can say that.
		I mean, sometimes she forgets they're there and she grabs hold of my arm or knocks it and she's panicking in case it knocked the wires out of place.
		It's just part of me and part of what we're doing there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're right.
		If you weren't married, boy, I'll tell you.
		Here, Han, hold these two wires.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
		Would you like to experience a real interface with a computer?
		I mean, I guess the answer must be yes.
		You wouldn't have gone through this, but do you think you would like to have it go that far, Professor?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, for sure.
		I mean, I think we've got an awful lot to learn, and this investigation we're going through, we are learning every day.
		I mean, it really is so exhilarating from a scientific point of view to sort of go past the cutting edge or go past the frontiers and to not know what you're going to expect from when you do something.
		You just don't know.
		nobody's done it before.
		But the whole thing in the years ahead of a full interface, a full connection, for sure, I really feel...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Through a computer.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the computer would be, just like a telephone network connects one human to another in terms of speech, so the computer network, the internet, to connect people from nervous system to nervous system and brain to brain.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		So I think there's an awful lot we can do just by thinking about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you talk about post-humans.
		What kind of society post-humans would live in?
		What do you mean by post-humans?
		You mean you and or your successors?
		What do you mean?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think different people mean different things by it.
		I think there are some more philosophical views of it.
		My own view would be that the cyborg, an upgraded human with capabilities, I would see it more from the mental side, not the $6 million man type thing with physical capabilities, but more with much, much more mental capabilities.
		And the post-human would be that, simply cyborgs that have the ability to communicate by thinking to each other, have different senses that humans don't have, and because they have a brain linked to a computer, have the power of thinking in many, many dimensions, which humans are very much restricted to thinking in three or four dimensions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, ultimately, you could imagine with a high bandwidth connection, an interface to a human brain, which would mean that the brain would be on the Internet.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Essentially, the brain would be on the Internet, right?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		That's it, exactly.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		But thinking of it as a brain on the Internet is perhaps a better way of looking at it is that your brain and the Internet become one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's even a more worrisome way of looking at it.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		It is more worrisome, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That you would be in.
		In a way, you would be inside the Internet, or the Internet would be inside of you.
		I'm not sure how to say it.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you'd be like a node on the network, which I mean, we haven't connected this up yet to the network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you're going to, aren't you?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		We're going to.
		You're going to tell people this before we do it, but sure.
		So certainly my nervous system will be linked up to the Internet.
		That's definitely on the cards in the weeks ahead, yeah.
		And that will be a weird experience in itself.
		No, the sort of signals we were talking about, movement and sensory, we want to try playing across the Internet.
		Oh, hopefully, between UK and USA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, I was actually hoping you would have already been hooked up and would have a password for me, you know, so I could.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so press a button and my finger starts waggling around.
		Well, that's seriously what we're looking to do.
		So again, it's not all something in science fiction.
		that's what we've got on the cards in the next few weeks.
		I can't see any, there's no technical reason why that won't work unless there's...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can tell.
		Stand by.
		Hold it right where you are.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		Time, time, time.
		See what's become of me.
		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Time, time, time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See what's become of me.
unidentified		and the professor.
		Time, time, time, see what's become of me while I looked around all my possibilities.
		I was so hard to please.
		Thank you.
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the Wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the Toll-Free International line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
		You've gone too far when a bullet hit bone, that's damn sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Morning, everybody, getting information that there's just been an earthquake, a small one, relatively small one, Palm Springs, California, about half an hour ago, 4.5 on the Richter scale would appear.
		I felt, and a fairly wide Indio felt it, certainly.
		So I'm getting a lot of messages that the ground is shaking nearby here in California.
		No big surprise.
		And jumping ahead now, Professor, there was once a book, and I think a movie that followed it called The Forbin Project.
		And I bet probably you saw it or read it or something.
		Anyway, it really took it on out to the point where machines became the masters of humans to the degree.
		And there was an interesting story on the last newscast.
		The head of the New York Stock Exchange was talking about how disruptive 911 was to their communication.
		September 11th destroyed their communications and how they're taking steps now to protect, and they're worried about hackers and all what would happen if a hacker ever got into the New York Stock Exchange, that sort of thing.
		The Forbidden Project, it got to the point where a machine decided that the folly of human endeavor and human war and human behavior was going to lead to human extinction, and it began to take steps based on pure logic.
		That's not all that really outlandish, is it?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Not at all.
		In 1998, I had a book, I don't think it's out in the US, unfortunately, but in the UK and just about everywhere else in the world, called In the Mind of the Machine.
		And that was really scientifically looking at the possibilities of exactly that, how it could come about and so on.
		I think the idea, though, that machines necessarily use logic that we would regard as straightforward human logic, even that is not necessarily the case.
		I think with machines nowadays, computer-based machines, they learn, they can adapt, and hence come up with their own conclusions based on their own.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe so, Professor, but let's look at this.
		We've got, what, us, five or six billion human beings on the planet now?
		Isn't it entirely possible?
		i mean we worry we are human so you know work we're not likely to say except the very lowest of us or the highest of us depending on how you look at this that uh...
		there need to be less humans and something has to be done immediately to control the population will machine uh...
		might come to the same conclusion about the available resources versus the number of consumers and it could make a fairly radical arbitrary decision uh...
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, quite right.
		And we, as humans, I think we're driven along very much by short-term goals often, and often personal goals.
		And quite a few countries have problems with populations that are really exploding at the moment, and it's very difficult for them to apply any overall long-term goals and seeing where everything's going.
		I think we are very, very bad at looking at the long-term and saying, oh, long-term, Even in terms of five, ten years, never mind next year or so on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we might not be really good at that, but machines might be really good at that.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, for sure.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		And probably have an intellectual capability of looking ahead a bit more accurately than we can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then if they're interfaced to the Internet, for example, they might have the capability of actually acting at some point to implement what they had decided.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, it's a strong word, decided, but I mean...
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		I'm happy with that.
		And I think it's perfectly possible.
		All the time we are deferring to computers for decisions much, much more, and allowing the computer network to not only make the decision, but carry out or implement in some way.
		I don't think we've quite got to the stage that we're talking about here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, no, we haven't.
		But here's the problem.
		The Internet was built by scientists.
		It was built in order to communicate no matter what would happen.
		In other words, you could destroy Chicago, L.A., New York.
		The Internet would still keep trucking along because it's like a giant neural bunch of connections.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		We can't switch it off.
		This idea, oh, if the computer's getting dangerous, we just have to switch it off.
		I mean, that's a complete fallacy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's all wrong, isn't it?
		You go, just pull the plug.
		Well, you can't just pull the plug.
		There's a million plugs.
		You just can't do it.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you might be able to pull one individual plug somewhere, but that's it.
		There's just one thing.
		there are millions upon millions of other plugs that you've got no opportunity.
		So that's true for everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're beginning, they're going down the road now of these new computers, these, oh, what do they call them?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These, these.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Not supercomputers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These are little tiny things that are going to be the future of computers, and it won't come to me at the moment what they are.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		People can phone in with the answer.
		That's the quiz.
		Anybody phones in with the right answer?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Quantum, thank you.
		It just occurred to me, quantum computers.
		And when we get to that stage, the speed is going to be so enormous that it's not really all that hard to...
		It's probably a factor of storage and speed.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, again, you can start to look at human consciousness, but then there's also the potential for machine consciousness.
		And for us to say, oh, this machine is not conscious, therefore we don't have to worry about it.
		I mean, I think that is so crazy as to be, you know, we should ignore that straight away.
		Just like saying this bat or this cow is not conscious.
		It's a creature that's living in a different way from what we are.
		And we know that computers have, in the way they operate, a lot of advantages over humans.
		The memory capabilities, the speed that you're referring to, the accuracy, the repeatability.
		There are so many things that we know for sure, how many other things can Well, if you accept that speed and storage are the two things that when they reach some juncture or some point, there will be consciousness, then you could almost sit down, it seems to me,
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and compute how far ahead in speed and storage one would have to get to where potentially consciousness could occur.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, where neural function approximates that of a brain of something or a human.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but again, it's a different thing, and therefore I don't know that it has to approximate that as a human.
		It's more when it's got the power, and we've deferred to it enough, that it can make some decision and carry out some decision that, in a sense, from a human point of view, is irreversible.
		We can't stop it.
		We can't switch it off.
		And it has a profound effect on humanity of the type you were talking about.
		It decides, well, we're going to cut off the supplies of food in this area, and there's nothing we can do about it.
		It's carried out.
		Or we are suitably convinced, suitably at the, I don't know, not slaves, but we feel we have to do it.
		Otherwise, we're not going to have the machines working in the way that we want them to.
		And I think...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, science just goes ahead.
		We're out here in the public debating about it, but it goes ahead anyway.
		And so how do we avoid going down that road?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess that's my route is the scientific route and is looking at the cyborg alternative.
		It's rather than having machines acting against you, it's saying, hey, there are all these advantages.
		Why don't we link up?
		Why don't we've got to admit it's going ahead, as you say, so why can't we team up?
		If you can't beat them, join them.
		Become cyborgs.
		Upgrade humans.
		Give ourselves extra capabilities by linking up with the technology much more closely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Certainly that is one way to look at it, that you're upgrading like you would a program 4.2 to 4.3 or 5.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		We have to admit humans have a bunch of abilities.
		We sense the world in certain ways.
		Our brain is of a certain size.
		There's nothing technically wrong with something having more senses, having a much more powerful brain.
		And certainly evolution would point to that happening in the future.
		It just, with technology, it really has the potential there to really speed up evolution, really whiz it forward.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's an interesting concept that we could be responsible for our own evolutionary jump.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		Self-determination by evolution, yeah.
		Well, I would see it as a distinct possibility, but once again, from society as a whole, it raises enormous moral, ethical questions and I guess religious questions when one looks at it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you, for example, one can easily imagine either through the kind of hookup you have or a more complex one in the future, an actual interface to a computer and then to another human being so that, for example, you could have downloaded into you the thoughts and experiences of another person on the other side of the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you would be it'd almost be like a Star Trek thing where you were suddenly throw a switch and you're in a different world altogether.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, oh, I think it is completely blurring the whole issue of what's real and what's not because through our normal sensory route, the human brain is just trying to make sense of the messages that are coming in.
		If you start throwing other messages at it through another route, then it's going to try and make sense of those in a different way.
		And if they are either simulated messages or messages, as you say, from another human somewhere else in the world, then it will try and make sense of them in its own way.
		So, okay, it's maybe not next year or the year after, but the possibilities of signaling are certainly emotional.
		When you're feeling excited, I think that's not far off at all.
		That being blasted from one person to another.
		It's all sorts of questions.
		What does the other person make of it?
		Will their brain feel excited in the same way, or will it simply not be able to cope with the signals?
		And then subsequently feeding in perhaps some memories, perhaps some certain little game playings or different experiences.
		Yeah, I mean, we'd have to say that's a possibility.
		I don't think we need to understand fully how the human brain works before that happens, but it's really giving the human brain a port, a communication route to the outside world, to the Internet, and so on in that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wouldn't it be the perfect torture mechanism?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, for example, I find the right two wires and hook you up to a game of pong, you know, and just leave you alone for a while.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're right.
		There's the other side of it all.
		Yeah, quite right.
		Yeah, there's all sorts of other tortures as well.
		I think watching Dallas or Dynasty or something hour after hour, and you're forced to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the real world now, for sure.
		I guess you've done a lot in robotics, and we did touch on this in the last program, but robotics has not lived up to its promise.
		I mean, when I was a child, we were reading about robots and that we'd have them serving us, and oh, gee, whiz, you know, the dishes would be done, and all the drudgery work and the garbage would go out without the wife saying a word, and robots would be helping us, and we're not there.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		No, it's gone another way.
		It's gone the internet route.
		I mean, we have, there are some robots that walk around.
		The Honda group of robots, P3 and Asimo, which is a bit like a child, physically, they look something like humans, and it is amazing when you see them moving around.
		You think it's somebody inside a robot suit, but they are, in fact, robots, and they're physically mimicking what humans do, but not mentally in any way.
		And they have cost millions and millions of dollars to put together.
		So I don't know, there are sociological questions.
		Do people really want a human type of robot, a bit like what was that film?
		There was a film recently with, I can't remember the guy, but a robot potential operating around the home and so on, or in the film AI, I guess, a robot that's something like a human.
		Would we actually want that?
		But technically, we do seem to be way, way off something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you are successful beyond all belief and you get a connection to your brain, interface to a computer that you didn't expect, a very full kind of connection, would you quickly back away from that?
		And how would you treat that if all of a sudden your entire brain came alive with a whole new reality which was coming from a computer, which you plan to hook up to, I know.
		Would you immediately disconnect and go, uh-oh?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is a big question.
		We've got a team of guys here ready, but it's dependent on my reaction, I guess.
		So if there is something that's extremely painful, a big negative, then the hope is that I will still be mentally capable of either saying to someone, okay, switch it off, cut it off, or doing it myself, even if physically I can't actually operate something with my hand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, if you just suddenly realize, forget the pain.
		Let's say it's not pain.
		Let's just say that you're immediately, overwhelmingly immersed in a cyber world, a whole new world.
		Would you attempt to disconnect immediately, or do you think you're so much scientist you'd sit there and let it happen?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'd go for it.
		Yeah, I'd go for it.
		The experience would be absolutely incredible.
		And the thing is, you don't know, could you repeat it?
		I mean, you might have, through just a particular circumstance, gained that experience, which would be fantastic.
		And it might not be something if you switched it off, you could repeat immediately.
		So it would be to go for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and then there's this.
		If there is that kind of connection, as you point out, you might not get it again.
		So you would sit there and immerse yourself into it.
		But then there's a lot of questions about once that kind of connection has occurred, Professor, If the software should crash, if the machine should be turned off, yeah,
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		the psychological aspects of suddenly being pulled out of it, which I know for people in the virtual world, in virtual reality, some people are able to cope nipping in and out and cope with it very easily, but other people experience all sorts of problems in terms of sickness and even for days afterwards can have problems readjusting.
		So it's a big unknown.
		One would hope I'll be all right, but again, it might not be something that's immediate.
		There may be immediate shock coming suddenly back into the real world, but I guess without going down that route, you just don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, again, these wires that come out from below your elbow, they deal in hardly measurable amounts of voltage or current, right?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, fine.
		That goes to your brain.
		I asked you about the shock question.
		What about a sudden amount of voltage applied directly to those wires in some manner by accident?
		I'm sure this has occurred to you.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		That's something we're really worried about, as you might imagine.
		I mean, you've got the voltage and it has some effect on movement that it might cause sudden movement of fingers and so on.
		But it's the other way.
		What happens when that heads on up to your brain?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, exactly right.
		I mean, you can take a little 9-volt battery and you can put it on your tongue and you can just barely feel the voltage.
		It's like a little tickle.
		But 9 volts across a couple of your wires going straight to your brain.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, that's a whole different thing.
		Yeah, yeah.
		And that is, with the whole of this, it's running on a bit of a knife edge as far as what we're doing because, again, nobody's experienced those sort of things before.
		So, I mean, maybe what you're suggesting there, going on the right pathway, could be pretty cool.
		It could be fun.
		But maybe it could be extremely dangerous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You got a 9-volt battery hanging around?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		I'll go and try it in the lab now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, don't do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stay right there, though.
unidentified		We've got another hour to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor Kevin Warwick, the world's first human cyborg.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		Some velvet morning when I'm straight, I'm gonna open up your gate.
		And maybe tell you about Phaedra, and how she gave me life, and how she made it in.
		Some velvet morning when I am straight.
		To recharge Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought it was absolute genius of Keith to pick Phaedra as the 100 millionth visitor to the website last night.
		The unlucky Greek goddess Phaedra.
		What a great code name that was.
		I'm Art Bell, the professor.
		We'll be right back, and we're about to go to phones.
		Once again, from Great Britain, here is Professor Warwick.
		Professor, welcome back.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, Scott.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people want to talk to you, but a lot of people are fast blasting me asking you about the movie Matrix.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You saw that, of course.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One in which an entirely artificial world, you know, the world had been wrecked, and I forget some kind of disaster, but some totally artificial world was imposed on every human being, or mostly every human being.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they ran it, and they told us what kind of world we were living in, even though it was actually devastation we were living in.
unidentified		I mean, is that within the realm?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, very much.
		I must admit, various people before I saw the film had said, hey, you've got to go and see this because it's not too far away from the sort of things you're talking about.
		And when I went to see it, I thought, yeah, this is great.
		The only thing that I was disappointed by about the last 10 minutes of the film became pure Hollywood.
		I think Keanu Reeves was down and out, and that was it.
		And then all of a sudden, he got some mystical powers from somewhere.
		I think they needed everybody to go home happy and content that everything was all right.
		So I was all right until about the last ten minutes.
		Then if you cut that out, then fine.
		Yeah, there's very much that sort of world that I think is a distinct possibility, realistically.
		That would even contemplate such a thing as well, but it's I think there are some science fiction, the fantasy side of things, well, I mean, that's a different thing Altogether, but quite a bit of the science fiction based on science is a guess as to what might happen in the future.
		And some of it you have to take out of films like Terminator, books like Neuromancer.
		Maybe some of it is not going to come about.
		I think things like time travel are still big questions, but certainly in terms of intelligent machines and robots and what's possible when you hook humans up to computers, to technology, because our brains are the whole thing of what we're about.
		They make an understanding of what we see and what we're about and so on.
		And if you start changing the signals in the brain, you change what the human understands and what thinks going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, one thing is clear, Professor.
		We are a warrior people.
		We're a warrior people.
		I mean, there's a war going on in the Middle East now.
		There's one going on in Afghanistan.
		There's really wars going on all over the planet.
		We fight with each other and kill each other.
		When you take the kind of technology that you are now and you project it into the future and you infuse it with war, what do you see?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, I mean, there's definitely a technological war that we're looking forward to, technological warfare, and that, I think, is not too distant future.
		So I suppose removing the human from the front line, but also removing the human from a lot of the decision-making.
		That's what I would see.
		So I mean, already, I know McDonnell Douglas and Boeing are both putting together fighter planes without human pilots on board, simply because the technology outperforms humans when they're piloting it.
		The humans are too slow to assess a situation, to react.
		So a technological war, and then you're down to which side has got the better technology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you could imagine a war in which machines fought machines and the best technological nation won.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
		And then the question is, well, what happens when one side has won?
		What do those machines do as far as the humans that are on the other side?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The losing side.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		The losing side.
		What value do they put on the humans on the losing side?
		Do they value them at all?
		Or has part of their goal been to remove or destroy those humans?
unidentified		Which is part of warfare.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's go to some phone lines.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Kevin Warwick in Great Britain.
		Remember, there's a slight delay.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Thank you, Art.
unidentified		This is Deb Deb from KSFO in Oakland, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oakland, yes.
unidentified		And my question, oh, gosh, I have such respect for you.
		I swear I've been walking around all day talking about I was going to listen to this program talking to the first live org of the human race.
		And I just feel so honored.
		I know that sounds strange, but here we are, you know.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		You're talking now, yeah.
unidentified		It's kind of great.
		So anyway, my question is, are you do we know what frequency we would correspond with electronically or even electromagnetically?
		I mean, I know that scientists know how we resonate, but I mean, are you being extra careful that you're buffering yourself or grounding yourself somehow or that you don't get blown out?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It really is a good question, actually.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		It's a wonderful question because, I mean, it really is into the unknown.
		Sure, grounding, we're trying to make sure everything's all right, but things like static pickup, and then we've got differences between DC signals and AC.
		We're trying to make sure no DC gets down.
		But, I mean, what we're finding already, the signals we're looking at, there's all sorts of things going on at different frequencies.
		And it's one hell of a job trying to sort out what the hell does this mean?
		What does that mean?
		There's so much to learn.
		It's so exciting at the moment.
		We simply don't know it.
unidentified		Thank you so much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're very welcome.
		Now, Professor, here's another one for you.
		I'm a ham operator.
		And I operate a kilowatt rig over here, 1,000 watts.
		If you were to be in the vicinity of a transmitter of some sort, particularly an HF or UHF transmitter that might resonate, say, with the length of the lines that you've got now, well, you could be in big trouble.
		I mean, you said that you felt a few indecipherable signals, very sharp signals that could be radio stations or transmitters of some sort.
		What about that consideration?
		I mean, you're going to get on, for example, an aircraft where there's all kinds of UHF transmissions going on.
		And what about you coming to Arizona?
		What about all that?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		I mean, that'll be next week and the next week I'll be heading over there.
		Yeah, I mean, it is simply unknown.
		We hope everything is going to be okay.
		I mean, there's going to be enough problems probably getting through the customs and through the X-ray machines.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't even think about that.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		But especially still with the September 11th, I think they've been a hell of a lot tighter after that.
		But you're right, pick up from here and there.
		I mean, I have to say, it's been now in place for three weeks, and I've had the connector pad outside my arm.
		It's there, so potentially it could have picked up this, it could have picked up that.
		Everything seems to be all right.
		What the little zings are, I think my best guess would be it's simply everything's settling down.
		I don't think it's picking up something strange, but there's that possibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you been, in the weeks since the operation, have you been fairly isolated, you know, recovering, or have you been making the rounds?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		I think something in between.
		The first few days I stayed fairly isolated, really with respect to the surgeon that had carried it out.
		He really, before we said anything to anybody about what we'd done, he really wanted to make sure everything was okay.
		So I guess the first week it was very much trying to stay at home and not wander out too much at all, or when I went out.
		But since then, it's very much out and about and hence that's been one thing importantly for the implant, that I've been doing very much normal things with my left arm.
		I'm using it as an excuse not to do the garden and cooking and things like that.
		But I've got to have some benefits from it.
		Apart from that, it's very normal things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did the surgeon declare the surgery a success?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have to say they use all sorts of medical words.
		So he was saying something like there'd been no unforeseen problems that we haven't been.
		I mean there's a whole load of medical terminology which meant in plain English, yes.
		A success.
unidentified		Okay.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		But he didn't actually use that word.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		All right.
		First time caller line, you are on air with Professor Warwick in Great Britain.
		Hello.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		I was calling to ask you if you had seen the newspaper article that came out last week about the new robot designed by Sony Corporation and the little war they got going against Mitsubishi and all that, all those other Japanese companies.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		I haven't seen that particular one, but I know the war you're on about.
		I mean, the last decade really has seen enormous advances, certainly in the physical side, but I don't know if that robot is an intelligent robot or what.
		Maybe you could...
unidentified		And it can walk on carpet, you know, and they'll balance itself.
		And if it falls down, it's programmed to get itself up.
		And it'll walk just like a person.
		And it says, you know, if you ask a question, they will answer you back.
		It's got an extensive vocabulary.
		And besides, I can play music, dance, and do all kinds of stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had heard that the Japanese were pretty far ahead in the world of robotics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of stuff that hasn't made it over here yet, Professor, is that true?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I had the benefit last summer.
		I was over in Japan doing some lectures and so on for about three weeks and was able to work with the Honda team, particularly with their little Asimo robot.
		And I mean, for me, it was absolutely fantastic.
		So certainly on the physical side, yeah, I think they are way ahead.
		And some of the things you were talking about earlier about us, it's not happened so quickly.
		It certainly seems to be really speeding up at the present time, and the Japanese are very much part of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't your government, since you're a Brit, isn't your government likely to be very interested in how your experiment comes out, particularly if you get more of a connection than you anticipated?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't there liable to be a knock at your door?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		One would hope so.
		I have to admit, though, in the UK, whether government or otherwise, people tend generally, apart from myself, to be a little bit more conservative and a little bit slower to pick things up.
		So I think there's probably more likely to be a knock at my door from either the Japanese government or the U.S. government in particular.
		That's more what I'm expecting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we'd be guessing the Japanese over here were pretty cynical about that.
		All right.
		A wildcard line, you're on the air with Professor Warwick.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		Thank you.
unidentified		I am in Roanoke, Virginia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		My question, I had one for Mr. Warwick and one for yourself also, if there's time.
unidentified		Kevin, have you ever heard of a game called Shadowrun?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		I haven't, no.
unidentified		Okay.
		It's a role-playing game and it's evolved into a series of novels and all sorts of spin-off stuff has come from it.
		It deals with futuristic technology and they have source books that go into theoretical, I'm sure that nobody has done scientific research on it, detail on the very subjects that you're discussing,
		everything from, say, wired reflexes to make a human faster, to subdermal radio implants, to augmented strength and all sorts of other things using the techniques that you're talking about here.
		And it's just really amazing to me to see it come to life.
		You may find it an interesting subject to look at if you have free time and you want to do something to get away from your work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, is it possible that through an interface of the type that you have now, or one down the line, there could be augmented strength?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, that the human body could be made to actually physically do things that it cannot do now.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I mean, there's so many different aspects of the answer to that.
		I think the answer is very much yes.
		If you look at a sportsman who feels he's pushing the thing to the limit, the possibilities with something like this of actually pushing a little bit further certainly come about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've all heard these stories of, for example, mothers whose children are pinned under a car will go over and pick that car up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And where that strength comes from, nobody knows.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Well, maybe we're about to find out, I guess.
		I mean, if we can find out certain signals associated with the sports person when they're pushing it to the limit or going for the world record and record those signals as they're doing it, then maybe we can tweak them a little bit and that pushes the record forward a bit more.
		So that woman with the car, if she had had an implant and we record those signals, perhaps she could repeat that very regularly.
		But I think on the strength issue, I think there's another aspect here.
		Rather than looking just at upgrading the human as far as extra strength, of course, once you're connected to the computer, then a computer and the network can bring about all sorts of physical things for you.
		So rather than you lifting the car or moving forwards, just by thinking about it, you can bring about some piece of technology to do an awful lot more for you.
		So it's sort of externalizing your physical capabilities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but you were talking a little while ago about fighter planes flying themselves, essentially, because they can make decisions faster, or machines can, than human beings react faster, right?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		That's right, yeah, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, what do we need the humans for?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		That's the big question.
		I mean, that was something I pondered on, and in the Matrix, the answer was, well, they become an energy source for the machines, which is one.
		Maybe it's a little bit over the top, but it certainly is one solution.
		It is a big question.
		How do we fit into the technological world of the future?
		I'm hoping as a cyborg there is a role to play, but as a human, it becomes a very big question, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if, for example, you could induce any human being the kind of strength we talked about with the mother and the child in the car, then there would be applications for conflict for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if you had a soldier who was capable in short spurts of that kind of strength, you would have an army that could not be defeated, wouldn't you?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Unless you had another army which had slightly upgraded chips and was able to give out a bit extra strength.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Either way, it's the same old story.
unidentified		What is it coming for?
		Absolutely nothing.
		What is it coming for?
		Absolutely nothing.
		Say it again, y'all.
		What is it coming for?
		Absolutely nothing.
		Listen to me.
		I'm inspired,'cause it means the structure of instant life.
		Wore me his tears,'cause I was above the line When their sons go to fight and lose their lives.
		I said, "Wha!" Let's go!
		Let's go!
		I'm like, "I'm a girl." I'm like, "I'm a girl." I'm like, "I'm a girl." I'm like, "I'm a girl." I'm like, "I'm a girl." I'm like, "I'm a girl." I'm like, "I'm a girl." I'm like, "I'm a girl." I'm like, "I'm a girl." I'm like, "I'm a girl." I'm like, "I'm a girl." I'm like, "I'm a girl." I'm like, "I'm a girl." I'm like, "I'm a girl." I'm like, "I'm a girl." I'm
		like, "I'm a girl." I'm like, "I'm a girl." I'm like, "I'm a girl." Every night I hope and pray A dream lover will come my way A girl who holds in my arms And know the magic of her charms'Cause I want this girl to call my own I want a dream lover So I don't have to dream alone A
		dream lover, where are you?
		With a love oh so true.
		A dream lover, where are you?
		Call our bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the full free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Artel from the Kingdom of Nye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Professor Kevin Warwick in Great Britain, the first human cyborg, Dream Lover.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You take this technology on out a little bit, and it's Britney Spears for all.
unidentified		Or one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you follow me, there are some aspects of this that are so astounding that it's hard to even think about them.
		It's like thinking about how high is the sky.
		Dream lover?
		Oh, yes.
		All right, Professor Warwick has a couple of books.
		You may want to investigate both of them, and you can get both of them.
		The first one really isn't available in America, but if you go to amazon.com.uk, you'll get there.
		It's called In the Mind of the Machine.
		Sounds like an absolutely fascinating book.
		His new book is The Quest for Intelligence.
		You might chase after both of these.
		I mean, when you're listening to somebody as committed as this man is to have actually turned himself into a cyborg, you might want to listen to what he has to say.
		Professor, that's something that I just wanted to cover very quickly.
		I was sort of joking about Brittany Spears there, but really, once you have a brain connection of this sort, one can only imagine some of the possibilities, which would include a full-blown sexual experience, for example, that you would experience as though you were there.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, completely, absolutely, yes.
		I mean, for you it might be Britney Spears, for other people, other people.
		I mean, it raises all sorts of questions as to husband and wife relationships.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, you'd go to the local video library and pull out probably some sort of flashcard memory or something else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take it home.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		I think for me, it would probably be Meg Ryan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Meg Ryan.
		Oh, yeah.
		Meg Rams.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		I'd certainly take that one out several times, probably.
		But how does that affect relationships?
		I mean, mentally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		Have you mentioned Meg Ryan to your wife?
		Find out right now.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		I'll try it tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Even if physically you're not going through the whole physical thing, mentally you would be.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		So it raises enormous questions.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Daniel in Austin, Texas, by Computer, says the following.
		Really interesting.
		Which would be easier or more likely, the brain controlling a computer or the computer controlling the brain?
		Now, if you got into a full interface condition, would it be a mutual exchange of information or would it be a control?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		I would see it as a mutual exchange.
		Maybe I'm looking at it through pink glasses.
		Maybe I think ultimately, maybe that it's a very good question because it would be unlikely, ultimately, that it's one human brain connected to one computer.
		It would be one human brain connected to a computer network.
		And then it's very difficult.
		It perhaps is more the latter thing.
		It's more that the human becomes a node on the network, something like that.
		But it is, I think it would still be shared that it would be a mutual thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, but you never know.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		You never know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You never know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You could get halfway across the Atlantic if you were hooked up and suddenly divert to Seattle and go see, you know, be compelled to see Bill Gates or something.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Even that, yeah.
		But I think the thought of, the fingerglasses thought of saying the computer would be at your control, I can't really see that.
		I think the best or most realistic thing would be a mutual sharing, that it has got things that it is good at doing and you have got things that you're good at doing, and you bring them two together, which is the whole concept mentally of a cyborg.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Kevin Warwick.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air.
unidentified		Oh, yes, I have one quick thing, and then I want to ask a question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, where are you, by the way?
unidentified		Oh, I'm sorry.
		This is Ray from Smithville, Virginia, WMIS.
		All right.
		Are you aware of the fellow who's doing research into antlers and the process that animals that do have antlers use to grow them and shed them?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		I'm not.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		I must admit, I'm not.
unidentified		There's a fellow who's doing this, and his primary interest has been, up until now, amputees.
		Because what happens with antlers is that this is a growth of bone that comes out through the skin, and then the skin forms a connection to it, which is then impervious to disease and so on and so forth.
		And that research has been going on for quite a while.
		And it's something that if you want to do long-term electrode through the skin, you might look into.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, yep, yep, yep.
unidentified		Another question that I had was whether you've looked into tattooing these external wiring things on.
unidentified		Since they have to carry very low voltage, you could probably use a magnetic ink and tattoo them on.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't know.
		And the latter thing, I mean, the antler's point is a very good one as far as infection and that aspect.
		But the tattooing, I don't know, we're trying something different here with direct connections to the nervous system.
		So rather than just going locally under the skin or from the outside, we're trying essentially to make direct connections to the brain.
		And really, this is a stepping off point, just connecting onto the nervous system first.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you wanted to be certain you were going to get a direct connection to the brain, where would you do the hookup, doctor?
		Not saying that you will not with what you've done, because you might.
		But if you wanted to really ensure it, where would you go?
		The spine?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think going directly to the brain, you would tend to get itself, the brain itself, you get regions at the moment.
		So maybe you get a motor region, maybe you get a region to do with memory and so on.
		So you're getting a certain aspect.
		So I guess the top of the spine or something would look to be a good place to...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or directly to the brain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but that might need a number of link ups, a number of hookups.
		How much the brain could adapt or whether it was just used, the connection first up was just used for certain aspects rather than lots of different things.
		I mean, I don't think we can look at a one-to-one link, each brain cell connected to one wire.
		That's not realistic.
		But putting a number of ports, communication input-outputs to the brain, yeah, I think that's possible.
		But where they go, we've got a lot to learn for that, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I interviewed a neurosurgeon professor that was doing spinal cord work, and he was implanting electrodes in a portion of the spinal cord, and he found out by accident.
		This is unbelievable.
		You might have read the story, I don't know.
		He found out by accident, working on some women, that he could produce, just by pushing a button, he could actually produce an orgasm in a woman.
		You read about that?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I interviewed him.
		Incredible.
		I mean, so if that can be done.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, to be honest, one of the things we're looking at here with the spinally injured, of course, someone with a spinal injury, their sexual capabilities are, in a sense, removed.
		I mean, can we bring them back again?
		So it's looking at the whole thing, really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He actually patented the process.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		I don't blame him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God help us all.
		Well, I don't either.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Warwick.
		Hello.
unidentified		Dr. Warwick, isn't it?
		I've always understood that the heat factor would be a problem in increasing human performance.
		Would that be a problem in this application?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Do you mean heat externally to the body or heat internally?
unidentified		Heat internally created by the electromagnetic field or also the added friction of, say, enhancing the muscular performance?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, you may well be right.
		It's something we haven't yet.
		We're still trying to pick up can we detect heat and cold and things like that.
		That's something we're yet to do.
		But how it affects the operation and how it affects performance, we're not there yet.
		It's a really interesting factor, though.
		So We'll report back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You remember the last time you and I spoke?
		We said once you're hooked up to the interface, just in terms of it reading you or the computer reading what's coming, have you tried the old pain test yet?
		In other words, creating, you know, sticking yourself with a needle or something or another and looking for the reaction?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what we're up to at the moment.
		But to be honest, it's a needle in a haystack, if I can phrase it.
		I mean, literally a needle, because we have to find where to actually bring about the pain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Damn, that's going to mean that you're going to have to sit there with a needle and go, ah, there it is.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		You've got it.
		Well, that's what we're up to.
		I mean, the one big advantage of using the hand is that there are so many sensory pickup points, the touch sensors and so on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're going to be sort of a human pincushion.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, exactly.
		Exactly, yeah.
		And then suddenly we'll get a signal.
		But again, it's what signals exactly are we looking for?
		The woman before talking about different frequencies and so on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		And so it's not only scanning through all over my hand with a little pincushion, it's looking through all different frequencies and then you have problems with earthing.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		So there are all sorts of technical problems, which is fantastic, really exciting scientifically, but it's very laborious at the same time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much of a team do you have to help you out?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, right.
		Yeah.
		Well, I guess there have been something like 30 different people involved to get us where we are at the moment.
		But on a day-to-day basis, there's about, say, four or five of us in the lab.
		Some are looking more at the medical side, which literally what we've been talking at there, trying to map out what we're doing.
		And then there's a couple of guys working more on the sort of cybernetic projects.
		In a couple of weeks' time, we're hoping that I can do a demonstration from the nervous system to control some of the technology in the building here.
		Just get the coffee maker to come on and things like that to show what will be possible pretty soon.
		So there's some more on the medical side.
		There's a small team on a day-to-day basis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller align, you're on the air with Professor Warwick.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello?
		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Professor Warwick, I've talked to individuals, I'm a researcher, who claim that they have implants in their brain, and they claim that there's certain unnamed governed agencies, the NSA, and provided contractors.
		In response to that, I have three quick questions.
		They claim that their thoughts or maybe their sub-vocalizations are being read using portable devices like a Walkman in real time, and that there are these real-time experiments capturing their brain waves using magnetic amplifiers and satellite uplinks.
		Now, they also claim that the NSA is trying to access their unconscious mind in some kind of cyborg experiments.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, that's getting pretty far out there, but Professor.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		No, I have had quite a few people contact me with the same lines.
		I have to admit, technically, from what we understand at the moment, it is very, very, very unlikely.
		I mean, this is the scientist in me not saying it's 100% untrue, but you always allow a certain element of doubt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I'm skeptical.
		Yeah, but, Professor, my own government has a history of being exceptionally interested in mind control to the degree that they used guinea pigs in chemical experiments with LSD and all kinds of incredible things that nobody would have believed until they made it public.
		If they were that interested in mind control, then obviously the technology that you're now immersed in would be, it seems to me, an irresistible temptation for them.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, certainly, yes.
		And you really don't know what's going on behind closed doors.
		I have to admit that.
		You can find out some of it eventually.
		But, yeah, I agree with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They've got some really big closed doors, too.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, for sure.
		For sure.
		Yes, no, I expect very much.
		Can I just say, talking about books and things before, all of what I'm going through here, I have a new book.
		This is a plug for a book, but a new book, iCyborg, which really is detailing the operation, why we're doing it, and also the results as they happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you are now writing this, or it's already written?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, I'm writing it as we go.
		So every so often I take a little bit of time out.
		And I mean, hopefully there'll be an American publisher for it.
		It's certainly Random House in the UK, which is a big publisher publisher.
		So that'll turn out in the middle of the summer, I guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I think an American publisher will be right there for it, believe me.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Well, I hope so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's like you're keeping a diary.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
		But it's a diary in the form of a book, literally saying, before we do this, this is what we're expecting.
		And then, well, when we actually did it, this is what we found.
		And detailing the operation and what went wrong and what happened and how it felt to have sort of an electrocuted hand and things like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you think perhaps by mid-summer you'll be done?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's scheduled August in the UK, so hopefully the US then or just after or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, don't let your publisher push you too far to do too much.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They can do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, come on, let's get this 9-volt battery on there.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		You're determined to try that 9-volt battery.
		You have to try the art test, I think.
		No, do that one just for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't do that.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Professor Warwick in Great Britain.
		Hello.
unidentified		How are you doing, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
unidentified		Oh, well, this is the second time I've called your show.
unidentified		I'm still nervous because, like, as soon as you picked up the phone, my heartbeat rate went about twice as high as it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take a deep breath.
unidentified		Yeah, okay, I'm okay.
unidentified		I had a question for you, Professor Warwick.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		Well, first of all, how old are you?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		48.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
		At least you're honest.
		The question I had for you was regarding the brain as a computer.
		like a piece of software, how fault-tolerant is the brain when something sudden and unexpected happens?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a very good question.
		I mean, sometimes it's, we don't know, really.
		Sometimes it seems to be extremely fault-tolerant.
		And people, such as stroke victims, they have a serious problem occur, and yet it is able to get back sometimes completely to normal, but other times there's a major problem.
unidentified		So now going back to what you were saying about and what you were saying, Art, about static electricity, if there's a sudden voltage, a sudden high-voltage signal that is sent, but if it's the right kind of signal, do you suppose that there is, like a computer virus, something that could be sent into the brain that would shut it down, send somebody into a coma?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's possible, isn't it, Professor?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I would have thought definitely possible.
		I mean, I hope it's not going to happen with me, but if I suddenly stop talking in the next few seconds, then, you know, that might have been, let's hope I keep talking.
		But, yeah, no, you're quite right.
		Or certainly change the way it's working in a less serious way than that.
		Yeah, there's got to be a distinct possibility.
unidentified		How long did it take you before they let you go from airport security when you kept trying to tell them, hey, I'm a human cyborg?
unidentified		How long before they let you go?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, that I'll tell you next week.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		I haven't actually traveled, I haven't actually flown with it until next week off to this digital arts symposium at Sucson.
unidentified		I thought I remember reading that you had been stopped at airport security because of some piece of hardware that was in you.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, I think that's a guy, Steve Mann.
		I mean, when I, up at Toronto, he carries it all, there's a load of technology he carries on the outside of his body.
		For me, I did fly with my previous implant, which we talked about before, which is like an identification thing.
		And really, there wasn't any problem with that one.
		I'm just hoping that this will be the same.
		I mean, I could end up actually getting to the United States and not being able to get back again.
		So if somebody's got a spare room somewhere, I might need it in a week or so's time.
unidentified		You know, another movie that came to mind really quickly was Johnny Mnemonic, the fact that he could store hundreds and hundreds of gigabytes in his brain with an interface from the computer.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		And I think that sort of thing, I mean, if it's stored in the computer, but the computer's linked to the brain, looking at it that way, then that sort of thing becomes realizable.
		I don't know necessarily storing it in the brain.
		I see more of a, rather than having the chips or the computer in the brain, more a radio connection to the computer is much more realistic, I feel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Caller, we've got to scoot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're out of time.
unidentified		Sure, Caller.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much.
		Professor, it has been, again, first of all, wow, thank you for the I'm really glad the operation is an apparent success, but still, we've got to do another program because I have a feeling the big results are just around the corner.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're sure, yeah.
		On the operation, on my website, people can go and have a look at some of the pictures.
		But beware, the pictures of the operation and so on.
		That's www.kevinwarwick.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got a link up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you can actually see the gory opening up, huh?
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		And there's a photo gallery there, and you can go and see some pretty bloodthirsty pictures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, have a wonderful day there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it is daytime now.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		And it's beautiful sunshine.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Even though it's England, it's gorgeous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have a great day.
kevin warwick ▲ ● ▼		Thanks.
		Cheers out.
		Good talking to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
unidentified		Love it.

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