Dr. Joyce Hawkes, a biophysicist who left her career after a 1970s NDE involving telepathic ancestors and luminous landscapes, now heals using energy flow—detecting blockages via hands 3-5 inches above patients’ bodies. Her work, including reversing paralysis in RND patients and eliminating transfusions for blood disease sufferers, aligns with quantum-level research like NIH-funded Cleveland Clinic studies but remains marginalized. Hawkes also healed a Shepherd Wolf Cross dog’s heart murmur, though she avoids harming her own energy by clearing post-session. While skeptical of satanic cult explanations, Colm Kelleher of NIDS (Bigelow-funded) reports 20+ unexplained cattle mutilations since June 2001, including bizarre cases like a decapitated premature calf in December 2001 with no tracks or blood. Hawkes’ advice to Joan, an epileptic with spiritual gifts, underscores healing’s potential to transcend physical conditions—though mainstream integration remains elusive. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I visit good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be across all 24 time zones covered by this program around the globe.
As you all know, my backs once again reached out and got me for a couple of days.
But I have returned stronger than ever.
So, we'll dive into what we're going to do tonight.
Dr. Keller, Dr. Paul Kellagher, is a staff member of the National Institute of Discovery Science as a researcher, scientist, and deputy administrator, where his responsibilities include overseeing NIDS research projects.
Dr. Kellager received a B.S. degree in biochemistry from the University College Dublin, Ph.D. in biochemistry from the University of Dublin, Trinity College.
Until 1996, Dr. Kellagher was an instructor at the National Jewish Center for Immunology, Denver, where his research projects included molecular biology of Epstein-Barr virus infection of human B T cells, expression of human androgynous retrovirus-like transpossin sequences in human immune cells,
HIV infection of human cells, expression of human nerve growth in factor receptors on human B cells, ayay.
Has been a research associate at the Molecular Genetics Lab, Harry Fox Laboratory, British Columbia Cancer Agency, Vancouver, B.C., served as a post-doctorate fellow of the Ontario Cancer Institute, Toronto.
Was recipient of a National Science and Engineering Research Council, a Canada Award in Biochemistry in 1985, and a W.P. Craven Memorial Award in Medical Sciences in 1986.
Dr. Killer has authored and co-authored 36 peer-reviewed publications in molecular immunology, virology, and biochemistry.
It's also been published in numerous articles for the layperson in magazines, including Omni.
NIDS is operated, funded by Robert Bigelow, a really nice, really interesting guy in Las Vegas, very well-to-do, who has been doing this for a lot of years now, has the resources and the ability to investigate odd, paranormal, or otherwise things as they occur, UFO sightings, whatever.
Now, there's a hotline telephone number that I am about to give you, which you're welcome to call right now.
If you have anything odd, bizarre, strange that needs to be investigated, anything you would like to report, here is the hotline number which is open right now at this hour, unusually at this time, but it is open right now.
Area code 702 798-1700.
Let me give that again.
Put it on your refrigerator.
If you have anything that you really think bears serious investigation in the world of the unusual number.
You could even call now.
702 area code 798-1700.
In a moment, Cullum Cullaher.
All right, over the hill now, 65 miles or so, to Cullum Cullaher, who is a deputy administrator for NIDS and a remarkable organization.
Gave you the hotline number one more time.
It's open right now at 702-798-1700.
I believe we've got as many as three cases to cover with Cullum.
And we're going to talk again about animal mutilations.
And, you know, we still have absolutely no idea who was carrying out these bizarre mutilations that now seem to have really come up again since last summer.
Well, as people listen to what you're about to say, I want them to bear in mind this possible explanation of satanic doings causing this, because some of the evidence that you're about to present seems to contradict that possibility.
And We think that the vast majority of the cults that have been investigated in the 1970s and 1980s, especially we're very well aware of the kinds of law enforcement investigations that went on in Montana, not to mention New Mexico and Utah and Colorado.
And in each of these cases, law enforcement went after the local cults.
And in all of the cases, nobody was caught or charged.
And most of the cults have a totally different modus operandi.
They tend to focus on chickens and goats and other small animals.
So if you want to go into a pasture and tackle a 2,000-pound bull who can be very, very ornery, I think most, you would say, normal cults, so to speak, would shy away from that.
The first case that I'm going to talk about happened, one of the first cases that we actually encountered in the NIS organization, and that happened on March 10th of 97.
It was a very unusual animal mutilation, as we were to find out, because it happened in daylight.
And briefly, what happened was there were two ranchers who were tagging their animals, newborn calves, in a pasture which was essentially wide open.
The nearest cover was about 100 yards away.
And they had a dog, a blue healer, with them, which always accompanied them.
And it was one of their favorite dogs.
They tagged the animal.
They weighed it.
It was about 87 pounds.
And they moved off west after tagging the animal.
They moved about 300 yards west down the field.
And they were still in the same pasture, but there was a very, very slight dip in the pasture.
And they started tagging the next animal.
There were multiple calves that had been born the previous night.
So they were tagging the second calf, and they were just finishing that when their blue eelers started to act very strangely.
You may have, because it was one of the more bizarre cases, because the ranchers looked around at the direction that the healer was focused on.
So they noticed that one of the cows was running in a very kind of frantic manner back and forth from one spot in the middle of the field towards the fence line and then back again.
So they started coming back to investigate.
And to cut a long story short, they walked back and they found that the calf that they had just tagged, now remember they had very good memory in terms of the kinds of coloring on the calf.
Well, the dog obviously sensed something and maybe even saw something that really put the terrors into him, and he just took off, didn't want to be around.
Yeah, and that incident actually really made us pay attention that every other investigation we ever went on in that particular area, we always had dogs with us because we knew that they were capable of sensing beyond the usual human perceptions.
So anyway, the ranchers came upon this animal.
There was not a single drop of blood either on the animal or on the grass.
Remember, pretty well, 60% of the body weight of the animal was gone in 45 minutes in broad daylight on a bright, sunny day in the morning.
It looked initially to the ranchers that something extremely powerful had attacked the animal because the ball and socket joints had been literally ripped apart.
And even with an 87-pound calf, that is quite a feat of strength.
They thought they saw evidence of chewing on the animal, but then when they couldn't see any sign of entrails or blood or anything around the animal, they decided something very strange had happened.
And then they called NIDS in Las Vegas here.
We were on a plane within hours, and we were standing over that animal within five or six hours of the call.
And we had all of the instruments at our disposal.
Yes, essentially, there were several levels of investigation, some of them forensic.
The first level of investigation was a veterinarian went through that animal inch by inch and discovered that the ear, which had been recently tagged with a very large yellow ear tag, had been completely removed very close to the skull with obviously a sharp instrument.
So here we had the calf that looked like it had been initially looked like it had been attacked, but now we find sharp instrument had obviously been used.
So in order to confirm that, the veterinarian took a sample, sent it to a veterinary pathology lab, and the veterinary pathology lab confirmed that a sharp instrument had been used on that animal.
Yeah, well, we went through a whole bunch of predation scenarios, and even a bear, a ravenous bear, would have a lot of difficulty in consuming about 60 pounds of meat in 45 minutes flat, you know, without a break, essentially.
Not only that, but not leaving any mess whatsoever on the ground.
And we really went after the looking for occult blood, blood under the animal, blood even on the animal's hide or on the grass, and was not a drop.
Now, there was another element to this, and that was one of the femurs, like I had mentioned, had been forcibly ripped out.
That's one of the bones in the leg.
Forcibly ripped out and dropped about 10 feet away from the animal.
We took that bone, that femur bone, and sent it to a human pathologist who specializes in looking at bone and looking at injuries.
And this is one of the best forensic pathologists in the country, out in the East Coast.
He sent back a report to us saying that definitively two separate types of sharp instruments had been used on this animal.
The first was like a heavy machete type instrument, and the second one was more a finer type instrument, like a scissors.
Now, we actually posted some fairly graphic pictures of this animal on our website recently.
These are definitely mutilations, but the real impression that we got when we arrived at this animal was that tremendous force had been used in combination with extreme care.
And the ritual element that I alluded to was the way the animal had been placed on the ground.
It was almost placed with extreme care.
It had that look as if extreme care had been used in placing the animal with all four legs spread eagled apart and lying in the middle of the pasture in broad daylight with absolutely no blood or no entrails anywhere around.
Column, with all you just told me as good, hard evidence, honestly, what does that leave in terms of possibilities as we're considering perpetrators who could accomplish this?
Well, we decided to follow it up by employing a tracker, a professional tracker who makes his living, you know, tracking game, just to make sure that there might have been no tracks left.
And he quartered that area extremely thoroughly for several days and not a single track.
Now, I should also mention there was a ring of unmelted snow around the perimeter of the field.
So if anybody or thing had entered the field via the perimeter, they would have left tracks in the snow.
Okay, well, one of the Scenarios that we went through was the possibility that maybe this was an assassination training exercise, for want of a better word.
That, for example, an extremely well-trained unit could have been training in assassinations in daylight.
And we went through multiple different scenarios like that, but each one had almost insurmountable problems in terms of logistics.
Colonel Cullagher is here, and indeed the question is, well, now, what possibilities, with everything just described, the use of a sharp implement, which rules out predation as I understand it, you know, like the scissors or whatever, something that sharp, and no tracks anywhere.
Do you like the scenario of the assassination, the practice assassination?
All this time, since Colin had talked earlier, I don't know, it just had to have been a month ago, and he mentioned the ritualistic aspect to it, I've been under the wrong impression.
I thought they were leaning really in that way.
That is, you know, devil groups of some kind or another.
Well, you know, regarding this cult activity, I had a really interesting conversation with a law enforcement guy from Arkansas, Hope, Arkansas, and he had a whole rash of mutilations in the late 80s.
So we're getting more and more and more law enforcement people calling us.
But what he told us was that when the mutilations really intensified around Arkansas during that period, all the cults came forward and said, look, this is not us.
Because there was a lot of simultaneous lights in the sky.
And in fact, there were some pretty spectacular photographs of lights zigzagging in the sky that were taken over that area of Arkansas during that period.
So they leaned the opposite away from the cult activity and towards some kind of unknown phenomena that were connected with those lights.
Well, this particular COS case really caused us to look in that direction because, like I mentioned, we went through this whole idea of the logistics of what it would take for a group of humans to actually do this to an animal.
And we came up with over a dozen really severe logistical problems for even a special forces outfit that were trained in this whole thing of assassinations.
And we just found that there were too many problems to explain.
So we know from the microscopic examination we conducted around the animal, we know that the animal probably was not killed where it was laid.
In other words, it was laid down in a different area from where it was killed because otherwise there would have had to be some kind of spillage on the grass.
So the chances are the animal was killed elsewhere.
Now where is that elsewhere?
That's where we drew a blank because, as I mentioned, we had actually employed a tracker to quarter the area within a mile radius of that animal, and nothing was found.
No tracks, no blood, no entrails, no anything.
But we would have to conclude that the animal had been killed elsewhere and then deliberately laid back on the ground almost as a message that this kind of thing can happen in broad daylight with two witnesses 300 yards away who saw nothing and heard nothing.
That's a good approximation because and also combined with the visual spectacle of the overwhelming force that was used on that animal.
And it was definitely a visual message because it was quite obvious that it was unlike any of the predator scavenger kills, and it was unlike most of the other mutilations that have only very minor parts of the animal.
No, we didn't conclude anything friendly from it at all.
There was a definite element of hostility in that whole act.
And you could actually say the same thing in many cases for some of the more obvious cases of animal mutilations.
We don't consider animal mutilations to be a particularly friendly act, no matter how you look at it.
Even for sampling, even if you postulate that the animal mutilation phenomena is some form of sampling exercise conducted by parties unknown, they still leave the animals there in full view of ranchers for shock value.
And now remember this first case that I've just described happened in northeastern Utah, which is a long way away, and five years previously.
But very briefly, the animal was found with pretty well all of the body weight gone.
The entire body cavity had been removed, exposing just the ribs and the spine.
No blood, no entrails, no nothing on the ground, except for one exception, and that is that the eye of the animal had been removed with a sharp instrument.
The left eye of the animal had been removed and placed very carefully on the ground about two or three feet away from the animal.
And the other unusual feature of this was that the snout of the animal had been cored out.
And again, there are sort of not very pleasant photographs of this on our website, but we put these up just purely as an exercise for people in the ranching community who might come across this kind of thing and might not want to report it, because these are really outlying cases.
They're not the usual types of mutilation that are reported to us at all.
They're very unusual.
Now, this eye on the grass was left intact.
It had been removed intact from the animal.
All of the fluid was intact in the eye.
And we know from our own experience that once the fluid is exposed or the eye is exposed like this, fluid evaporates relatively quickly.
So this was a pretty fresh kill.
Right.
And the Molus Operane really caught our eye because of the similarity with the Utah case.
Now, that happened only a few months ago.
There's a third case that happened.
The eye was positioned looking towards the animal.
If you look at the photograph, you can actually see the direction that the eye is looking, and it's looking directly at the animal as it's looking at.
Yeah, there's an even more recent case at the end of December.
And this, again, happened in Northern California.
It happened just before New Year's Eve in Northern California, about 10 miles, 10 to 15 miles away from the second case that I've just been talking about.
And this was a premature seven-month-old Charolay calf.
It was found by the ranchers.
Now, the unusual thing about this was that the entire head of the animal had been removed, which is, again, not the usual type of mutilation that Inez is used to receiving.
But the extraordinary thing about this case was that the hide had been removed very, very carefully from the head of the animal prior to the removal of the head.
In other words, it had been decapitated after the skin was removed, and the entire skin of the head was attached to the remainder of the animal as it lay on the ground.
These three cases are real outliers, and we actually hesitate in publishing them because they are so far outside the norm of what we're used to dealing with, which is removal of an eye, removal of an ear, removal of lips or tongue, and then removal of either reproductive organs or excretory organs.
That's it.
There's not this kind of removal of the head or removal of the vast majority of the body of the animal.
So those three cases, there's really no indication of sampling or research or anything like that.
You could always apply that explanation to the vast majority of animal mutilations with the caveat of why would anybody who's doing research like this leave animals on the ground for ranchers to find if it was just like a covert research exercise?
Colin, this all sounds more like some kind of horrible, ritualistic just killing.
I mean, I think a lot of people can wrap their heads around the possibility of whoever, even aliens, doing, you know, some kind of research, some kind of environmental sampling, whatever.
I mean, there's a reason for it then.
But wrapping your head around just a horrible, horrible killing, ritualistic at that.
If we get more cases, and that's another reason why we published them, was to see if anybody else, any law enforcement people, are reporting.
We came across a case in Louisiana involving a young calf, but it was nowhere near as gruesome as this particular tree here.
So we're publishing them for the purpose of veterinarians so that they can take a look at them and verify that this is just not predator scavenger activity we're talking about.
Number two, law enforcement, to encourage law enforcement people who do have these kinds of reports to come forward to us.
Column, what do you think the average vet, if he were to be called to a scene like the ones you've described tonight, what do you think the average vet would probably do?
Most of the veterinarians that we're currently working with are open-minded, but we know from experience in the past that a lot of veterinarians coming upon these kinds of cases would prefer not to pursue them.
That's a question we really want to know, too, because we want to know if this is just a relatively new phenomenon or was this happening in the 1970s when the mutilations were at their peak?
Because remember, parallel with these cases, there's also standard cases of mutilation that are happening in multiple different states, including Canada right now.
Yeah, I had somebody tell me the other night they thought it was just because of more press coverage suddenly on this subject in Canada or something or another.
Yeah, and, you know, since 9-11, I think the skies have been so incredibly closely watched.
Yes.
Any of these cases that come in that involve low-flying large objects, and they're still coming in, we're still getting them, then it's pretty obvious that either the radar is picking them up and they're ours, or the radar is picking them up and they're not ours.
You know, we're working a case that just came out at the end of last month, which is only a few days ago, from Lake Havasu City in Arizona.
And this was like two girls who were out at 3 a.m. on the 21st of February.
They noticed three blinking lights up in the sky, and they were just talking about them when this other object came by and suddenly came in their direction.
It had three oblong-shaped lights on the front of the thing.
And as it came towards them, another oblong light joined the three to make what looked like a cross at the front.
And as it kept coming, it just got bigger and bigger and bigger.
They described this thing that went over them at about 100 feet that literally filled the sky.
You know, we went through a questionnaire that includes, what does it look like, you know, with your hand outstretched?
Would it cover your thumb?
Would it cover your...
I mean, we were going through these large, would it cover your thumb?
But it's the kind of thing that this object was at reasonable altitude, and then it turned, and it seemed to notice these two people and came right down for a look.
And just not done frequently enough, so we're going to start doing it more.
Cullum Culliher.
They've got the resources, and they use them to investigate the kind of thing you're hearing about tonight.
If you have the stomach for it, the photographic proof is on the link page from Cullum Culliher's name on my website, artbell.com.
We'll be right back.
unidentified
Some velvet morning when I was straight I'm gonna open up your game And maybe tell you'bout Phaedra And how she gave me life
And how she made it in Some velvet morning when I was straight Flowers growing on a hill Driving flies and powerful gears
You learn from us very much Look at us but do not touch Phaedra is my name
To reach our belt in the Kingdom of Nye From west of the Rockies dial 1-800-618-8255 East of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033 First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222
Or use the wild card line at 1-775-727-1295 To reach out on the toll free international line Call your AT&T operator And have them dial 800-893-0903 This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell On the premier radio networks Well as you heard last hour We live in a world of very strange occurrences And this hour is going to be no different Try and imagine if you will
the will the studying the money the time involved in getting a doctorate uh imagine uh getting a doctorate in biophysics now this is from Pennsylvania State University by my guest Dr. Joyce Hawkes try and imagine getting a doctorate and working at the top of the heap in your field in biophysics and then suddenly having an NDE
a near-death experience and then dropping everything you were doing I'm not saying there's no relation to what she does now and what she did do but but it's a kind of a casual one in a way after her NDE and we'll find out why and get the NDE described but for some reason she just sort of changed direction completely she traveled went to the Philippines Bali,
India, in search of indigenous healing wisdom.
This is after an NDE.
This is after a PhD.
Anyway, it's a very interesting story, and it's coming right up.
Scientist by training, Dr. Joyce Hawkes, actually, received her doctorate in biophysics from the Pennsylvania State University in 1971 as an electron micropist and cell biologist.
She came to the West Coast on a National Institute's, that's NIH, postdoctoral fellowship at the Primate Center in Beaverton, Oregon.
Later, after being recruited by the National Marine Fisheries Service in Seattle, Dr. Hotz set up and supervised an electron microsby, I can never say that, microsby, I believe it is, research laboratory, and was recognized with a National Special Achievement Award by the Department of Commerce.
While working for NMFS from 76 through 84, the doctor published 50 scientific papers, was elected a fellow in the American Association for the Advancement of Science for her publications on the effects of Get This Now, high-speed lasers, hue-switched lasers, nanosecond pulsed, on pigment cells.
She was also an adjunct professor at the University of Washington.
Now that's a very heavy academic well-credentialed background, you must admit.
Somebody in that field is going to make a lot of money.
Then she had an NDE, and that changed her life direction completely, and we'll talk to her about that.
But let's begin with the work that she was doing.
Doctor, how long, how much educational educational years went into your doctorate and your work until you had your NDE?
So four years of bachelor's, two of master's, five for the Ph.D., three on the postdoc, and then I was a professional scientist for 15 years before all the rest of it happened.
And that's a very heavily credentialed background.
To suddenly just go...
And go off in a totally different direction.
That doesn't...
I was about to say that doesn't happen to many people, but it does happen to quite a few of the ones that I have interviewed over the years.
Now, I'll have to think about what that means.
Nevertheless, it's kind of a head shaker, and people would say, boy, you know, you could be in a lab making an awful lot of money, especially these days.
I collaborated with a group at the Oregon Graduate Center.
They were developing a research laser for fusion reactors.
Eventually that was dropped because fusion reactors were considered to be too goofy and dangerous.
But we were able to do some work with fish, and the Q-Switch laser that we used was a Ruby laser that was pulsing in microseconds.
But it was pulsing its light into a die cell that absorbed the light until it could absorb no more, and it would flash open and let the light through to a target.
Now, that flash was four or five nanoseconds pulses.
That's how you got them so short.
Now, if you're having retinal repair, that's a laser that works in a microsecond, and it just welds a little burny spot and holds the retina in the back of the eye.
What we were looking at was how to brand fish, something kind of really pedantic.
And we were able to do that.
We were working on coho salmon, working with the pigment cells in the skin, trying to find a way to mark them so that when they went out to the ocean and came back, scientists, other people working on the migration of the fish would know where they'd been if they came back to exactly the same place.
But still, you know, there's still some mystery with it because the way those pigment granules were vaporized in just their tiny spot, it didn't fry the rest of the skin or the rest of the cell.
It was like an internal surgical tool right on those little tiny granules.
Have you followed your field, even though you're not technically still working in the field, have you followed the incredible stuff going on right now?
And I'm a fellow in the American Association for Advancement of Science, so I get the journal Science every week, and I open it up, and I go, wow, we used to sit around as graduate students and argue about these things, and here's the evidence for them.
Well, if you were in a position of authority and could set policy for this country regarding proceeding, what kind of advice would you let's say you are not a dictator, you are just offering advice.
What kind of advice would you give in this area to everybody?
Well, here's tonight's story, dated today, new scientists.
Chinese scientists are claiming a great leap forward in human cloning, the creation of dozens of cloned embryos advanced enough to harvest embryonic stem cells.
They're not stopping in China, Doctor.
They're plowing right on ahead.
Right.
And, you know, I guess the question is, can we afford not to?
Profound question, totally important one, and frustrating to scientists in the field here knowing that the research is going roaring ahead somewhere else and they're stopped while everybody's talking about it.
I look around all my possibilities with your money and you make myself in sorrow.
Play your cheating game Silver threads and golden needles Killing men this heart of mine And I dare not drown my sorrow In the world of your wife
But you think I should be happy with you and you'll have yourself in sorrow when you make a jewel art bell in the kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Arcel, from the Kingdom of Nine.
Actually, I should read more of this story to you from the Chinese or about the Chinese in news scientist, very respected magazine, actually, dot-com news service in this case.
Chinese scientists are claiming a great leap forward in human cloning.
The creation of dozens of cloned embryos advanced enough to harvest embryonic stem cells.
Their intention is not, they say, to copy human beings, but rather to create genetically matched cells to make tissues for transplant patients and for research.
The work has not yet been reported in any peer-reviewed journal, but it was reported in the Wall Street Journal on Wednesday.
Experts familiar with the work going on say three or four other Chinese labs have made similar or even greater unnamed strides forward.
Another team based at Shanghai No. 2 Medical University claims to have derived stem cells from hybrid embryos composed of human cells and rabbit eggs.
We'll be right back.
Well, I know everybody jumped up and down when Dolly was cloned successfully, finally.
Not that the public got the details of what it took to get Dolly cloned, but, you know, everybody jumped up and down.
Now we have cloned cats.
I saw a pair of kittens the other day that were cloned.
Thing is, there's something wrong with Dolly, right, Doctor?
It seems like premature aging or some really weird something is wrong with Dolly.
So, yeah, we should move on the one hand slowly, but on the other hand, the nation that I suppose develops this develops some sort of national advantage.
So I guess we're both glad we're not the ones deciding whether to pursue it or not.
All right, so anyway, here you were deeply involved in this work, and kaboom, you had an NDE.
Again, this incredible emotion of peace, of belonging, of oneness, of everything being as it should, of knowing, being known totally and not judged in any way.
Just profoundly, deeply in loved.
I had no discussion about staying or coming back.
And bingo, all of a sudden I was back on the floor with a really sore head.
Yeah, because what developed out of it, which happens to, as I understand, about a third of the people who have near-death experiences, is I truly came back with a gift for healing.
I had no knowledge of it at the time when I was laying there going, oh my goodness, my head hurts.
But understanding that unfolded and developed over a number of years.
I took a class from a man who had studied at the University of Iowa with a super learning group, and I was trying to learn how to memorize better because I was writing a lot of papers.
And so he did this little thing.
We listened to a tape, and he told about his little kitty and the whiskers on the kitty cat.
And as I was trying to visualize this so I could learn to memorize better, this had nothing to do with NDEs.
It was all about science.
It was as if I was walking around the place where he had recorded it.
And I went, I can't run away from this experience because, look at all these people who've had something similar.
So that started a lot of exploration for me, a lot of reading on consciousness studies and talking to people and the IANS group, International Association for Near-Death Studies.
But nevertheless, you wanted to know what had happened to you, and when you began to find out that what you experienced was not unique, that must have affected you severely.
Some of the surgery that's gone on in the Philippines.
Most Americans, many Americans, have seen, I think, the video on these news shows of Filipino doctors that are shown to be actually unbelievably, I mean, they reach into their bodies.
The healer I ran into over there was not a psychic surgeon.
And I worked with him for two and a half months.
The reason he wasn't was because he fainted the sight of blood.
But you could feel things moving around inside your body when he worked on you.
He was a very, very gifted healer.
And I heard lots of stories about psychic surgery, so I'm not one, I'm not an authority in any way on it.
What I know is, well, what I was told by Filipinos is that there are some of the psychic surgeons that truly do that, actually, have the ability to reach inside.
And there are others who roll stuff up in their hands.
And years ago...
There are frauds, and they were tested, and they used chicken blood and all this other stuff.
She proceeded from a very hardline scientific career as a cellular microbiologist to an NDE to healing.
That's what we're talking about.
We'll get right back to it.
The End All right, doctor, so you went racing around the world studying healers, psychic healers and healers of varying sorts, because you had concluded that you had the gift yourself that had occurred as a result of the NDE or some rewiring of your brain.
That's a good way to put it.
I've talked to an awful lot of people who have had what you've had, and they have never quite put it the same way, but the people I've talked to, for the most part, have come back with all kinds of abilities, some of which, doctor, began to fade after a number of years.
And they were very intense immediately following the NDE, but then began to sort of fade.
And part of that has been my own practice of, you know, I do a lot of meditation, a lot of walking in the woods and sitting by mountain streams, which are real renewal places for me, and seeking internally that universal connection, the presence.
There are times I imagine I just kind of walk back over there, and it's certainly not like it was in the NDE, but the connection has never failed.
Now, at the beginning of the program, I said there would be a casual relationship between your scientific work and what you're now able to do in the world of healing.
Actually, there could be more than just a casual relationship.
Being a cellular biologist, why I would guess that if you're actually able to be inside a person, in a sense, diagnosing and or treating them in some way with your mind, then it would be far easier for you to imagine the actual physical aspects of what you're doing.
Mel says, I have seen and heard the success stories of many of Dr. Hawk's patients, but the example I want to use here is a personal one, that of a friend, Sue Volentz.
And I'm skipping some sentences down.
That's fine.
She had been injured and was dying and was in a wheelchair, had not been able to walk.
And I don't believe in a system where I'm trying to impose a template of the energy should flow this way, but trying to listen to what is their normal flow and then helping support that, working from their strength and querying wherever they're blocked.
They say, oh, man, I haven't felt this relaxed in years.
They feel tingling in their body.
Sometimes they'll feel heat.
Sometimes their bodies will just get really hot.
But there's like a response of the nervous system that records it as this kind of shivery tingle, and they'll feel it all the way down their body, which is a good feedback that things are moving.
You know, and I, you know, not every healing is effective.
There are times when nothing happens, and there are times when just a teeny bit happens, and then there are times when something quite spectacular happens where a tumor measurably goes from large to itsy-bitsy or goes away.
There's a woman that had a blood disease and needed transfusions every four months or so.
And this had gone on for several years.
She was working with a hematologist in Seattle and came to me.
We worked three or four times.
I got, there are times when there's clearing and then there's information about the body that comes up.
And there was some information about an injury, a surgery she had had, and we worked on clearing that and then worked deeply at the cell level.
There's another stage beyond the clearing where it feels like I'm drawn very deep into the body to the cells, almost like bringing information of normal behavior, which I believe is in there all the time, to the cells.
And her body started producing blood cells, and she no longer needed transfusions.
She kept going back to the doctor to be checked for another year.
And finally, he said, you don't need to come back anymore.
What I work with a person on is harmony and balance in the body, coming back to balanced cells that are not overgrowing.
There's nothing different in the chemistry of the cell that's going crazy and then one that's normal.
What's different is the regulation of that cell.
So it's about putting information into the cell and asking, I mean, one of the things I suggest for people on visualizing is just asking those cells to recycle their carbon, nitrogen, hydrogen, and oxygen and let their body come back again to balance and harmony.
I don't do little Pac-Men eating up bad cells.
The macrophages, which are one of the cells in the body that clean up debris, do come in and clean up the stuff, like after chemotherapy.
So it takes you right down to the line with a kind of treatment.
How do you really feel about that?
I mean, you say you're working on a team, but when you look at the results of the oncologist, as opposed to what you're doing, I don't see how you can be on that team.
Well, it's like with a broken bone, sometimes you have to set the bone and put a cast on it.
And I think some of the best of Western medicine truly, truly save lives.
You know, I guess I'm at a point where I just accept that sometimes these tumors are big enough and aggressive enough that some strong measures need to be taken to back them off.
Just far from the borderline When the headman comes He knows that well he has been cheated Have you been?
How my favorite good is my life so There is this madhouse Me and my people My reason can't move down to the west floor Where am I to go now that I've gone to war?
How my favorite good is my life so There is this madhouse Me and my people Call or bell in the kingdom of my from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
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This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Time.
You recall in that movie for the drama, I guess, or maybe it is real, she was in a small town, and the people who saw her do what she did were pretty much fundamentalist religious people who demanded of her that she say that the power that she was conduiting or using came from God.
And she couldn't do that.
And that resulted in great grief for herself and others.
As the work I've done with healers all over the world in very different religions have a sense of the divine, of the creator, of an energy that's in the universe larger than themselves.
However it's named, it's bigger than me.
It's not just energy-energy, but I feel it's a level of consciousness.
Now, it may turn out to be something that we can describe in quantum mechanics.
I don't know.
But the experience I've had on what I call the other side had such an emotional impact and was so profound that I can't say this just, I know it doesn't just generate out of me.
I can tell when I'm close to, when I'm really centered in a state of healing energy, I can feel it move in my body.
All right, well, here's a fairly profound question for you.
You can heal somebody.
Could you harm somebody?
Could you use the very same power you have to harm somebody, to do cellular damage, to do something to somebody that would result in eventually ill health or even quickly ill health?
I mean, there were times early on when I thought, what am I doing this for?
Why I should still be doing science.
And I have always looked for what is the evidence?
Is this real?
What's happening?
And I still struggle with what could be happening at a cell level to explain this.
And that's kind of fun.
I mean, there's new material.
Just last year, Scientific American did a whole issue on nanotechnology.
And one of the articles included something about the nanosphere and biology, that the cell is the right size and has the right speed of reactions to be a quantum field.
Quantum effects occur in the cell as well as macro effects.
And in quantum effects, there's no time and space.
We cancel those out.
So we're in connection with the tremendous energy of the universe.
Dean Raden helped conduct a very interesting experiment for this program some months ago in which we were able, this audience was able massively to affect some graphs that Dean Raden provided.
Amazing, amazing stuff.
We've done a number of experiments.
And so clearly, in my mind, there exists scientific evidence that the mind has power over something, perhaps at the quantum level.
And I wonder if some of that research might back up some of what you are able to do in the way you do it.
And they all work together pretty well, which is just astonishing.
So if you're affecting something in the body to heal, you must ultimately affect the cells.
And since the cells have the flux of both quantum and macro effects, it just, I mean, that to me just fits for energies that human beings can generate or can transmit to be able to affect cells for healing.
I think part of my job, Art, is making the bridge now at this point in my life between the cell-level studies and the healing work.
I'm a decent healer.
And there are lots of healers out there.
But for some reason, I stand between these two worlds still.
And I hope my contribution can be to give some kind of support or rationality or ideas that people can test so that this kind of healing becomes available to people who need it.
Not through necessarily having to go to a healer, but finding a way to do this for themselves or integrating it in our medical practices so that there is a spiritual dimension and component that people can access.
In other words, what about using scientific, the scientific method of repetition, to document, even if it's only by percentage, a sufficient number of healings, inexplicable healings, to bring it into mainstream?
You know, Carol Hirschberg's book, Remarkable Recovery, is just a huge number of case histories that Institute of Noetic Sciences collected when Brendan O'Reagan was there.
And so there's a ton of data that's well documented on this.
The fact that it works, I think, is pretty solid.
Now we need to be at some place where someone can say, how can we test this to find out where the effects are?
In other words, at the Petri dish level, you're separating it from the human being and psychological effects and the possibility of placebo and all the rest of it.
Yeah, they added an office of alternative medicine, and now it's become an institute.
My understanding is in the last year, they've begun to look at funding some studies somewhere, and I don't know where they are exactly, in energy work.
In the past, they've been funding efficacy of acupuncture and Chinese herbs, things that have already a pretty good history.
There's a group at the Cleveland Clinic that Dr. Joan Fox heads that is doing some of this research.
So there's little places tucked around where some of it's going.
And it's one of those things where funding is one of the issues.
Who's sticking their neck out to fund some of this work?
Would it be your view that if there is a quantum level effect, that one person in concentration would be as much as one million people in concentration or trying to heal?
In other words, would there be a collective effect, do you believe?
Or do you believe the power channels as easily through one as a million?
And other people have done that with smaller groups or only one, say, one religious point of view and not gotten as significant a data point.
So that indicated to me there's some evidence that larger groups of people sending healing are more effective.
I've also been in the presence of some other really incredibly connected gifted healers, and I mean, they'll knock you over practically.
I was listening to the tape you ran from Red Elk and his stories about being able to move into a levitated state and jumping up and down going, yeah, there are people who can do that.
And I keep sending it out, and it keeps getting rejected, and it's really frustrating, and I am still writing, and it's better now than it was before, and I'm right in the middle of that process.
I'm trying, again, to put this together so that it's useful to people.
And, Doctor, this is a moment when you're going to have to think about what you're going to do next.
I'm going to ask you for any contact information you have in the way of phone numbers or email address or snail mail address or whatever you would like to give out or not give out.
And I have experienced taking on people's symptoms.
In fact, early on I got quite ill doing that.
And I finally said, well, if I'm going to be doing this when I'm 80, we've got to learn to do something different.
So I learned how to, after each session, completely clear myself.
What I say in my mind to the person as they're leaving is, I don't say it out loud, I just say, I trust you to continue the healing work, and I ask that the hand of God holds you.
And then I come back to myself and just, I use an image of a spiral of light around my body, completely clear myself.
And I wait until I am clear before I start again.
So I don't carry anything over and so that I'm renewed myself because I really don't want to fry all my circus before the time is up.
Like they were fine all the way growing up until they were in their 20s and then they started exhibiting some signs of it first mentally and then, you know, started to affect them physically.
And now the one guy that's, my friend's still alive, he's got a daughter that's like 14 and there's a 50-50 chance she's going to come down with it.
And they had, you know, talked about what's going to happen, you know.
Now is it easier to take something like that if she would have it also?
The situation with the daughter, without a lot of really sophisticated testing, you wouldn't know whether she just didn't have it or if it was actually healed in her.
The bottom line is, whatever is done, one hopes that this young woman does not get it.
Sure, but for the sake of the world, if what you do and others like you do is real, then we must strive to prove it.
And I suppose a fairly complex genetic study and then an effect that you might have, and then another genetic study would go a long way, wouldn't it, toward proving that what you're doing deserves to be mainstream and available to all kinds of people with terrible illnesses.
And it would be if there was some scientific proof.
The comment was pertaining to a fast blast you had earlier, asking if Dr. Hawkes thought she could possibly also have the power to do harm as well as good.
Well, I asked that, and I think you heard the answer.
Right, but I was, you know, the comment actually was, I know Edgar Casey, you made a connection with him earlier also.
You know, it seems like people that have this gift go through an epiphany of some sort.
Right.
Casey had his, and I know he fretted for years, thinking that possibly he wasn't doing God's work.
You know, it could have been Satan who was, you know, the one that was coming through him, Casey being a very, you know, devout Christian.
Oh, yes.
And just my personal feeling is, and just as Casey had fretted, you know, so much over that, the fact that if you do choose to do harm this way, probably your power to heal, you know, would be eliminated.
Well, I don't know.
I mean, if you heard our discussion, we simply, I think, agreed that it is a power.
So with you having free will, if you want to look at it that way, I suppose you could have an epiphany halfway through being a bad guy and start to heal.
Right.
So the power could Be used really either way in all probability.
Well, that's the same thing.
I was thinking that if you were using it to actually be a healer and heal people of whatever disease they may have, if you choose to actually use it for harm, you'll probably go the other direction too.
The other piece of this is that as my experience of doing the work has continued to change me, I have become a more compassionate, loving person.
I've become a more spiritual person in doing the work.
My life isn't static in that way.
And so the choices that I make now are towards the healing.
I can't conceive of trying to misuse this or harm someone.
And we talked about theoretically, yeah, it could be used one way or another, but there is a process where you become more confident that you will make the choices that will help people because you're changing inside.
Have you ever heard Gordon Michael Scallion's story?
No?
He's an interesting fellow who was a businessman, very, very important businessman, and he got up to speak in front of a bunch of people who are going to invest millions of dollars based on what he was about to say.
And something happened, and he lost his voice.
I mean, his voice totally went away.
Ambulances came screaming in, took him to the hospital.
He had what I guess you would almost call an NDE.
He saw a lot of geometric shapes and colors and began to get the ability to do what you do to diagnose and heal people.
Except Gordon still to this day has not learned, and Gordon would verify this, I'm sure, if he was here right now, he hasn't learned to handle it.
And it makes him not well.
It gives him horrible headaches.
It actually produces times when he will just sort of break away from everybody for six months.
He'll go off and be away from everybody somewhere in the woods, you know, a nice cabin somewhere in the woods, and he'll just isolate himself because he just can't stand that much close contact and knowledge.
Corey, you're going to have to speak up good and loud for us.
unidentified
I'm sorry.
My name's Corey.
I'm calling from Birmingham, Alabama.
I was wondering if you had ever worked with any HIV patients or had dealt with any HIV patients that you had actually, you know, helped maybe raise their T cells or even get rid of the disease.
All right, but let's go back to the T cell counts.
If somebody has not yet come down with full-blown AIDS, and certainly 10 years ago, they would measure, if I recall correctly, they'd measure the amount of virus in the blood, right?
I did work with people who felt better, got better, sustained their health for a longer period of time, but no one that was cured was not able to help anybody get a complete cure.
I've been doing this almost all my life, and I'm close to 60.
And in the last couple of years, what's been happening with me is that I've actually, like in my mind's eye, been seeing the internals of people's problems in their particular organ.
It doesn't matter what it is, and actually seeing it down on a cellular level.
And some information that kind of intuitively came to me was that basically the energy is like light, but that light is like binary information on a cellular level.
And what it's attempting to do is to bring harmony and balance back in to that individual at all levels, but specifically at a cellular level.
So, my question is: as you've been going on, have things been changing in you where you've been seeing more detail or knowing more about it?
She was a scientist, hardcore scientist, had an MDE, came out of it, and months later began to heal.
Went around the world, looked at other healers, looked at what was being done, and is now doing her own work.
Amazing stuff.
There are things in our world that we cannot yet explain.
That does not mean they are not so.
It just really means we cannot yet explain them.
Just a little preview for you, because my back blew me out for the last couple of days.
Tomorrow night, we've moved Major Ed Dames to tomorrow night.
And we will be touching on things tomorrow night like the source of the mystery rash, the origin of the fossilized tooth that was taken from the core sample, a designated terrorist target on U.S. mainland soil,
the nature of collective consciousness, a psychokinetic PK effect that with Dean Raden's help we showed to be true, a Project Starman update, Osama bin Laden's present whereabouts, that sort of thing, all tomorrow night here on Coast, right now.
It's back to our guest.
Doctor?
Lots of people would like to speak with you, but I did want to cover quickly that man's question.
I thought it a pretty good one.
In other words, with your background, as the gift has progressed with you, have you been able to work and see in a more detailed fashion as you have developed the gift?
One is with experience, you see the same two dots and you go, okay, we'll connect these two again.
I know those dots.
So there's a learning that says, uh-huh, and so you're much quicker at working with that particular situation.
But there's also a process of deepening as one continues one's own work and meditation, contemplation, whatever you want to call it, so that a healer develops and deepens all the time.
And the most natural healing technique there is is to take someone else's stuff on.
We are empathic in that sense.
There are lots of teachings in our culture about not doing that, having boundaries so that you don't take someone else's illness in.
But in the Tibetan traditions, the ancient Tibetan texts teach their healers to consciously take someone else's pain or illness.
They believe that they build in their meditation so much light and energy in their heart space that whatever illness or disease comes in is then transformed.
I am trained as a counselor and registered as one, and I've done quite a bit of training in that realm so that I'm somewhat savvy with disorders that I know I can't touch, I can't work with, and others that I can.
I have a number of psychologists that refer to me.
So what I often do is work in tandem with them.
So they're working with someone coming out of a trauma, for example, and they're doing a traditional talk, psychotherapy.
Person comes to me and I do energy work with it.
What we've known, what we see is that people get well much faster.
The work helps depression.
It helps move people from post-traumatic stress syndrome.
With addictions, I will not work with anybody who is actively using.
I ask them to go to treatment and then come for help or to be...
It doesn't work.
I haven't been able to help them come out of the addiction without other help.
So I ask them to either do AA or go to treatment.
And then let me help them stabilize so that they can, it really helps them move away from it, but it doesn't seem to stop it.
And that's only me.
I mean, there's lots of healers with lots of different abilities and gifts.
Mine, there's certain things that seem to work really well and other things that I'm not as effective with.
I'm particularly affected with arthritis, with inflammatory disease, with very effective with MS, with detoxing people and with the cancers.
So a lot of the physical and the non-physical or the more psychological behavioral things, I'm quite effective with depression, helping people move out of that.
Joyce, I am blind and I cannot get to your website, so if you'd be kind to give your contact information, I'd appreciate it.
Do you help cats and animals with cancer and people that have suffered years of mental abuse and have memory problems and fear and can't do much and have been estranged from their family?
Because a lot of people don't believe in these healers because some of them are outrageous in their prices.
The ones that are really true don't charge for people that don't have it and charge for the people that have it.
How do you think that dog knew that enough had been done or that it wasn't going to allow anymore or that I would think enough had been done or that the right thing had been done and that was enough?
It's something I've thought of for a long time and actually thought of seeing if the folks in Great Britain would help us out over here to do that because they have a training system, they have a testing system, and a code of ethics.
And I just wanted to inform her that if she would look into this martial arts system, they have several different videotapes and things like this that will teach you how to not only build your energy and use it for, like I said, this is a martial arts system, so they use it for self-defense quite a bit.
Not that particular one, but working with Qi or with Qi is common to many of the martial arts systems, and it is, again, the flow of energy and clearing of energy through the body, which I learned a different way.
Dr. Hawkes, first of all, I wanted to thank you for who you are.
I'm a little nervous, so please excuse me.
I have epilepsy, and other than the obvious negative effects of having grandma seizures, the disorder has brought some gifts of a higher consciousness, a sensitivity to things that are somewhat unseen, and an ability to help people connect with their spirits.
I don't want to lose those gifts.
But at the same time, the drugs they give me to control my grandma's seizures are really heavy.
And I know they're harming my body, especially my brain and my liver.
I'm not sure how to deal with the epilepsy and still do what I know I'm supposed to be doing.
And a gateway is something you pass through that you don't have to keep, but what you do keep is the knowledge and the insights that you gained.
So I'm saying is that I think you can separate the two so that you won't lose the sensitivity and healing gifts that you have, regardless of what you do around the epilepsy.