Art Bell

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March 1, 2002 - Art Bell

04:51:56

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Richard Hoagland

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01:54:13

richard c hoagland

01:01:39

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leonard nimoy

00:32

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, good afternoon, it says Al-Qaeda intelligent fighters are regrouping in the mountains of eastern Pakistan,
		an eastern Pakistani province just over the border.
		It says there are about four or five thousand of them.
		So gee whiz, why don't we find out where they're regrouping and degroup them?
		I would imagine they would cooperate to that degree in Pakistan, wouldn't they?
		Let us particularly if they're, you know, like isolated in the mountains somewhere, we apparently have these little drone guys that can go and find a little speckle on the ground and deliver incredible ordinance to it instantly.
		Those are some machines we've got buzzing around over there.
		President Bush has agreed to Yemen's request to provide U.S. troops to train its military in combating terrorists.
		That's interesting.
		This is in an interview with a psychiatrist videotaped three weeks after she drowned her five children last summer, Andrea Yates said, get this, she believed she had to kill the children to keep them from going to hell.
		On the tape, which was played during her capital murder trial, Yates said that after the bathtub drowning, she believed the state would execute her, Satan would be eliminated from the world, and the children would be saved.
		Quote, these were their innocent ears, end quote.
		God would take them up.
		Former Enron chief executive Jeffrey Skilling says that he could not have overseen everything at the company and accuses lawmakers who have challenged his testimony of acting as judge and jury.
		In an election year, he adds, Skilling said on Larry King Live that he believed he made the right decisions before Enron collapsed into the biggest bankruptcy in U.S. history.
		That's an interesting line.
		You think you made the right decisions just before the biggest bankruptcy in all of U.S. history is declared.
		We're going to hear, we're going to break with a little bit of tradition tonight because there's a lot going on in space.
		There's a lot going on on Mars.
		Oh, man.
		All kinds of breaking news.
		Obviously, the kind of person you want to have around for that is Richard C. Hogan.
		Space Shuttle Columbia blasted into orbit for the first time in more than two years today.
		You know, it's interesting.
		I forget what it was, 22 minutes after the hour, something like that.
		It was 22 after.
		And CNN headline was covering or about to cover the launch.
		And the lady doing the, as a British would say, presenting, said the shuttle is due to launch, and it goes to a picture of the shuttle.
		And you can see the shuttle engines beginning to ignite.
		She said it's due to launch at 22 afternoon, and we will cover it.
		And then, boom, they went to commercial.
		You can actually, as they went to commercial, you could see the shuttle actually starting to launch.
		So then when they came back from commercial, all they could do was give us tape.
		I wonder how that happened.
		Damn it, Frank!
		You threw the wrong switch!
		Maybe.
		Anyway, they've got problems.
		It's a cooling system, and it's a pretty big concern, I guess.
		Maybe not enough to bring them back immediately, although I guess that was considered.
		They may come back in a day.
		They're going to have a meeting tomorrow, I guess, and decide what to do.
		Richard will fill us in on what's really going on up there.
		The Reverend Billy Graham apologized today for a 1972 conversation with former President Nixon, in which he said the Jewish stranglehold, oh wow, the Jewish stranglehold of the media was ruining the country and must be broken.
unidentified		Oh, my goodness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The things we say.
		Speaking of the things we say, what the hell's wrong with Ted Turner anyway?
		Here's a Fox News story headline.
		Ted Turner says hijackers were brave men.
		February 13th.
		Most of the world praised the firefighters, rescue workers, and police officers as the courageous ones on September 11th, from our point of view, certainly.
		Many of the bravest of all were the passengers who wrestled with their hijackers over Pennsylvania that day, you bet, causing their plane to go down in the mountains and preventing an even worse catastrophe.
		But media mogul Ted Turner said Monday night that there were other brave people, the terrorists themselves, on the day of the World Trade Center, when it crumbled to the ground and a section of the Pentagon was destroyed.
		Now, In a statement released Tuesday, Ted said his remarks were reported out of context and that he regrets any pain they may have caused.
		That's the modern PC apology.
		You know, you regret any pain that whatever you did caused.
		All right, well, there's a lot of news.
		The Bush administration, and I'm sure there's a lot of buzz about this out there, has activated Cold War-era plans for a shadow government.
		Now, right away, they've chosen the wrong phrase here, shadow government.
		Why would they use that?
		What's the matter with those people?
		Don't they read the conspiracy stuff on the internet?
		Don't they know what people think of the phrase shadow government?
		And so they're brazen.
		They call it a shadow government, consisting of 75 or more senior officials who live and work secretly outside Washington in case the nation's capital is crippled by a terrorist attack.
		The officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, oh gee, now why would he want to be anonymous, said the operation has been in effect since the first hours after the September 11th terrorist attacks and has evolved over time.
		And then, of course, you knew I was going to get emails about it, about the shadow government, and so I'm getting them.
		And they raise some pretty good points, I would say.
		Here's Les, who says, hey, Art, isn't the U.S. government supposed to have three branches executive, legislative, and judicial?
		Separation of powers and all that, you know, right?
		Well, how come Bush's shadow government only has one branch, apparently executive?
		Where are the shadow senators?
unidentified		Where are the shadow reps and the shadow judges?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it sounds like the man has created or rather admitted to have already being created is an emergency dictatorship that would not require legislative or judicial branches.
		How convenient.
		It is clear this shadow government is news to Congress.
		So, you know, he makes a pretty good point here.
		I mean, where's the you know, a shadow implies that you have some duplication, even if in a negative of the original, and there's a bunch of the shadow missing there.
		The checks and balances, part of the shadow, they're missing.
		It's like no arms and no legs.
unidentified		all we have is the body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the other hand, you would expect, and you would even demand, that our government have some kind of plan just in case, you know, if Washington was blown to smithereens or the White House suffered an atomic attack, or God, you could imagine a million horrible scenarios with terrorism, right?
		That there would have to be a continuance of government.
		So I certainly understand that and that they should be doing that.
		But why not make it some resemblance and some semblance of the government that you now know works so well?
		I mean, it really does, for all the grumbling that we do about our government.
		It's a pretty good system, you know.
		The executive branch, the legislative branch, which is probably a pain in the neck to each other, but they are checks and balances.
		And then, of course, the great judges who decide what the law of the land is.
		Now, that just really does make a good combination, and it's kept us out of trouble a lot of times.
		You know, with presidents who would have done things that, well, would have been way out of line.
		You know, like grabbing power.
		Well, you just can't do that.
		You can't grab power here because there's too many checks and balances.
		Your butt's going to jail.
		But if you just have one branch, that's not good.
		That's not a good shadow.
		Maybe there's something about it that I haven't heard, but I didn't hear anything about those other branches.
		Well, the rash stories.
		What am I going to tell you about this?
		As you know, the CDC is looking into what the hell this mystery rash is, now officially said to be in, well, I'll read you part of the CNN story.
		Federal authorities are working with state and local health officials to determine the cause of mysterious rashes among school children, and I might add more, I'm adding that, in 14 widespread states.
		It is not clear whether a single cause is behind the rashes, which tend to be mild and then go away by themselves.
		The first outbreak happened in October in Indiana.
		Subsequent cases have occurred as recently as February 21.
		CDC, let's see, concluded in its morbidity weekly report.
		Morbidity and mortality.
		Ooh, how'd you like to be the person making out that report?
		What do you do?
		I make out the morbidity and mortality weekly report.
		Probably put an attitude on you after you'd been doing that for a while.
		The rashes have been reported primarily among elementary school students, though.
		A few middle and high schoolers have been affected as well, said the report.
		Listen, I'm here to tell you that almost every single state, I've heard from every state multiple times with regard to this rash.
		Now, again, we may be bumping into the snowball effect.
		I've got a rash too.
		Or this may be absolutely...
		How real the component is to this, I don't know yet.
		I know I'm getting thousands of emails about rashes.
		Thousands of emails.
		So I wonder if they're really caught up on how widespread it is.
		And it really is a mystery.
		There are certain people who claim they know what it is, it has something to do with milk in the schools or something.
		But now it's going into the general population.
		That's what they're not reporting here.
		That's one of the things they're not reporting.
		They're not reporting, in my opinion, how really widespread it is at all.
		And they're not reporting that it's gone beyond children.
		But, you know, according to my reading, it absolutely has.
		What's going on on Mars is really, really exciting stuff.
		We'll talk about it in a moment or a little bit about it and a whole lot about it with Richard C. Hoagland.
		But apparently, folks, what we're getting from the satellite circulating about Mars now is going to confirm a lot of very, I mean, really exciting things about Mars that there probably was, or you might even get a little more excited here, might be now life on Mars.
		Maybe not as we know it, but you can almost bet that if there is, I mean, if water came up in volcanic spurts like Old Faithful, if there was that much water and there still is that kind of water underground and there's, you know, there's evidence of very recent water flow and there's even evidence of green stuff.
		I mean, this is beginning to get to be fairly interesting.
		That's why I thought Richard really ought to be here tonight.
		Down at the South Pole, they talk about green stuff that seems to be, or, you know, maybe people are afraid to say it, but who knows?
		It could be vegetation, right?
unidentified		Could be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		you you For the rest of your life with this bed.
		That's pretty good, huh?
		So give them a call.
		1-800-985-7100.
		Now, if you'd like to look 10 years younger in 10 weeks, human growth hormone holds that promise.
		It will do that.
		It'll have you feeling 10 years younger in 10 weeks.
		And I know you can't relate to that.
		Nobody can unless they've experienced 10 years going one way or the other in just 10 weeks.
		But then after that, it gets better.
		Physical changes begin.
		You know, the wrinkling skin begins to de-wrinkle.
		Probably also not a word, right?
		D-wrinkle.
		If you're playing Scrabble, it probably would not work.
		Is that a word?
		Derinkle?
		The wrinkles begin to get more shallow.
		You look better.
		Your skin is thicker.
		Your bones are stronger.
		Your immune system will fight things off as never before.
		Or more accurately, as you were younger.
		Everything associated with youth.
		This is ultimate HGH.
		And what it does is cause your own body to produce more of its own human growth hormone.
		We'll include a $20 value book.
		You can read about what's going on with you, which is going to be really something.
		We'll throw that in when you order.
		The number to call Great American Products is 1-800-557-4627.
		That's 1-800-557-4627.
		It really is incredible.
		The End So, you know, could that really be?
		Could there be that much water on Mars?
		If there's that much water on Mars, then as Richard told us last time he was on, I'm sure is going to be telling us again now, that means there is fuel on Mars.
		With water, you can make rocket fuel.
		And that makes a trip to Mars very likely.
		So in other words, the information coming now from the satellite may be what pushes us over the brink of our president, you know, getting on TV and saying, We have a national goal.
		We're going to Mars and we're going to do it by the year.
		What do you think, folks?
		2012.
		How about we play it safe on this side of the Mayan calendar and we make it before the year 2012?
		That'd be a good year.
		A plume of hot volcanic mantle rock is rising beneath Africa right now.
		The title of this article is BBC News.
		The title of the article is Volcano Threatens to Divide Africa.
		Volcanoes, plural, threaten to divide Africa.
		So you've got this hot volcanic mantle rock rising beneath Africa.
		And according to international researchers, it could eventually create, check it out, a new ocean.
		The Ethiopian rift is one of the few places in the world where we can see the transition from continental rifting to something that looks more oceanic.
		According to Dr. Cindy Ebinger, who told the BBC World Service Program, it's a unique area worldwide.
		The crack in the Earth's surface runs for 2,000 kilometers.
		So they're saying, with the right conditions, a series of volcanoes could divide Africa, if you can imagine that in your mind, divide Africa, and there would be a new ocean created, I guess, between.
		Now, those are what I would dub as fairly serious earth changes.
		How about you?
		Then, of course, there's the big rock in Hawaii that, now that was treated as a fairly small story the other day.
		But this rock up on the volcano is the size of Rhode Island.
		That's a really big rock.
		And it moves several inches.
		One of our satellites caught this rock going several inches.
		Now the bottom line is, they say if the rock falls into the Pacific Ocean from all the way up on the volcano, this will cause a very large wave.
		They're saying about a hundred foot wave that would come crashing ashore around the entire Pacific rim.
		That's everywhere.
		You know, that's everywhere.
	That's all up and down the American coast, you know, the South American coast, Alaska, Japan, China, the Philippines, all the way around.
	A hundred-foot wave.
	So that's a really big rock.
	And so it moved three inches.
	That's something to think about.
	That was treated as a fairly small story, but it's a pretty big story, really.
	That's a pretty serious movement.
	Well, they think it is, anyway.
	You know, they watch from satellite.
	And so we haven't been watching movements like that a lot.
	But still, it doesn't sound good to me.
	When a big boulder is up there on the cliff and you're down there and you're looking up and the boulder begins to move, you usually go, uh-oh.
	Or at least, uh-oh.
	Right?
	So I thought that story was a bit under-treated, actually.
	Richard Hoagland is coming right up.
unidentified		Don't you love him, Maddie?
		Don't you need it, Madame?
		Don't you love her?
		What you say Don't you love her Bad lady Want to be her daddy Thank you.
		Don't you love her faith?
		Don't you love the door that you did one thousand and before?
		Don't you love her way?
		And tell me what you say.
		Don't you love us?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time colourline, you're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old are you?
unidentified		Um, 13.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		13.
		Since you've gotten through, you can make a prediction for 2002.
		Something you think might happen or will happen.
		Or I will even accept you would like to happen.
unidentified		I'll get a really high allowance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like, how big?
unidentified		$50 each week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		$50 a week?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I do so much around here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you presently get?
unidentified		$5.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you don't want much then?
		You want a 10 times boost in your allowance.
		Yeah.
		What would you be willing to do for that?
unidentified		Do the laundry, do the dishes, clean the living room, clean brothers and sisters' bedroom.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty heavy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell your parents Art said 10 times.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See you later.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would look for lightning to strike before you get it, but you can ask.
unidentified		Lightning, striking again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies are on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you going to speak?
unidentified		Art?
		Yes.
		This is Deborah in Lazula, Montana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How you doing?
unidentified		Very good.
unidentified		And I am a satanic feminist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A satanic feminist.
unidentified		Yes, that's correct.
		We trace our lineage back to Eve.
		We believe that Eve was the first satanic feminist.
		I mean, she starts out as a simple country girl tending a garden.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Along comes the friendly garden snake who enlightens her.
		And when the omnipotent God of Adam asked who gave him the fruit of the tree of knowledge, Adam did not hesitate to rat Eve out.
		Well, he couldn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's obvious that it was her.
unidentified		He would have said that the snake gave him the fruit of the tree of knowledge.
unidentified		He didn't have to immediately rat Eve out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying it's for real, huh?
unidentified		Oh, of course it's for real.
unidentified		Why would I want to lie about something like this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because you're satanic.
unidentified		That's right.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The satanic feminists.
		You know, there's a lot of people who say, well, they're all satanic.
		Coast to coast A.M. with Art Bell.
unidentified		Anyone for a dentist?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Easter the Rockies.
		You're on the air.
		Hi, Art.
unidentified		I'd like to thank you for your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's kept me going.
unidentified		I do chrono bridge work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I own a chronobridge dental laboratory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
unidentified		And there are many, many crowns with a little art bell twist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you serious?
unidentified		Yeah, I weave little A's and B's into the anatomy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there are people walking around with my initials in their anatomy and their crown of bridge, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many of these things do you?
unidentified		Oh, I've got thousands.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the best yet.
		All right, I appreciate it, sir.
		All right, thanks, sir.
		Take care.
		Oh, my God.
		So my mark is in your mouth.
unidentified		Thousands in your mouths.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Every time you jump down on a quarter-pounder, you're doing it with my initials.
		The March issue of the After Dark newsletter is like nothing you've ever seen.
		We've included images of some of the most dramatic before and after healing photos you've ever seen.
		Find out about the miraculous treatment that's saving lives and Lynn's from infection and gangrene.
		Plus, do you have a root canal?
		Read about the dentist who thinks root canals could be destroying your health.
		Plus, find out who my favorite guest from the last few years is.
		It's not who you may think.
		And of course, there's the evil Mothman.
		See the 9-11 photo that could be the Mothman at the World Trade Center tragedy.
		What an issue this is.
		It's all in the March issue of the After Dark newsletter.
		Call right now, 1-888-727-5505 for only $39.95.
		You get two free issues, $14 for the price of $12.
		The number to subscribe, 1-888-727-5505.
		Or log on to RBL.com and hit the library link to secure server to order.
		Call now, 1-888-727-5505.
unidentified		Time, time, time.
		See what's become of me.
		Time, time, time to see what's become of me while I look around for my possibilities.
		I was so hard to be the ground, the ground, and sky shape.
		In the southern I'm the ground by the side.
		Starting feeling right than what you've got planned.
		The ground is a brown and the sky.
		It's a hazy shade.
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nigh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have so fallen in love with this record all over again.
		Coming up is Richard C. Hoagland, one-time advisor to Walter C. Cronkite, one-time advisor to NASA, winner of the Ingstrom Science Award, man who has a great deal to say about what's going on in space, on Mars, and with the shuttle.
		And all of those things are flat out on the table tonight, so it made sense to reach out to Richard.
unidentified		Look around, look around, he's not grand.
		There's a patch of snow on the ground.
		Look around, he's not grand.
		There's a patch of snow on the ground.
		We'll be right back.
		The End And the partnership for drug-free America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, and I forgot, in addition to all those other aforementioned qualities, Movie Mogul.
		Here's Richard.
		I do.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		We have turned in the script.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're kidding?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy mackerel, Richard.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Nope.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really fast.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, no, no.
		This has been a six-year process.
		We have gone through God knows how many iterations of this, and God and a few other people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but I didn't know you were that close to a script.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Richard, can I read it?
unidentified		Money you should ask.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Only my best friends and people who know how to keep secrets, and I know you know how to keep secrets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I've kept many secrets.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So, yes, you will get your copy.
		What we're waiting now for is a kind of a formal response from Tom Mount and the good folks at RKO.
		We got a preliminary read from the young executive in charge of development.
		Ever heard of development hell in the movie biz?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, we are not there, but development has gotten a bad name.
		Anyway, we turned it in, I feel like I'm doing my homework.
		We turned it in on the 19th.
		That was the day that we were supposed to, by contract, have this draft presented to RKO.
		By coincidence.
		I mean, this really is a coincidence.
		The 19th was the day that Mars Odyssey began its formal science operations around Mars.
		And I just realized that, you know, about 10 minutes ago.
		So we turned in the script, and I've got all the little bells and whistles in it that I wanted, most of them.
		And now we're waiting, as I said, for this response back from Tom and his colleagues.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't care about them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to read it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, you will.
		You will.
		But if we're going to change some things, I'd rather that we're all on the same page.
		And, you know, studios do have power.
		That's where the money comes from.
		So by contract, we have to have them review it first.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you'll probably, all right, then you'll probably end up with Martian sex.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You know me better than that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm just.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I hope you know me better than that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just telling you what.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		No, because there are some things that as we finish this draft, I actually thought at 3 o'clock in the morning, oh, damn it, I wanted to get that in.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So as part of this next round of discussion, which of course is what the budgeting and the stars are all based on, you know, we actually do a serious now budget profile.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who do you think is going to be the star?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know I'm asking impossible questions.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, obviously I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You must have a wish list.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		We have a wish list, and what's really interesting, everybody, folks out there, is that the wish list includes a lot of people that you know who are household words, household names.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, gee, you gave us a lot there.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, these are going to be top people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would have expected that.
		Let's see.
		Let's see.
		Charlie Sheen.
		Is he on your list?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I think he's busy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's busy.
		All right.
		Well, anyway, look, there's a lot of important stuff to talk about.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		We'll definitely get a copy, and I will look forward to your comments and feedback and all that.
unidentified		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good, good, good.
		All right.
		Now, we launched the space shuttle.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Last night, I was up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was watching headline news, as I said in my opening.
		You know, launching a 22 after.
		And here they show the ignition, you know.
		And says we'll be right back to cover it.
		And they cut to commercial as the thing is igniting.
		And when they get back, they have to go to tape.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I can see you're not on Dish.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You're not on the Dish Network, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, yes, I am.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, because you can get an assault direct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know that, but I happened to be watching, it caught me by surprise.
		I was watching headline news.
		I just thought, God, it's igniting and they're going to commercial.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yes, great news, since.
		Anyway, no, it was absolutely spectacular.
		And what was so incredible, it climbed out just at dawn out of the Cape.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that was awesome.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And there was this light cloud cover.
		And, you know, this is a liquid fuel, three main engines, hydrogen, oxygen, as you said a moment ago.
		But there are two huge solid rocket boosters on both sides of the main tank.
		And they produce an incredible flame.
		And as this thing climbed up, you had this dark plume blocking sunlight because it's basically aluminum particulate stuff.
		The same kind of stuff that's in the chemtrails.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We were going to get to chemtrails later.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And then you climbed up through the clouds, and it lit up the clouds and lit up the whole Cape.
		And, I mean, it was the most incredibly beautiful launch I have seen in a long, long time.
		And I was fortunate enough, you know, to see most of the Saturn Vs live and the first shuttle launch from the Cape by actually being there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The ones I would like to have attended would have been the Saturn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There must have been nothing in the entire world, in all the world experience, you know, that could compare to that.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It was incomparable.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The low-frequency sound, the infrasound, the sound you don't hear but you feel.
unidentified		What was the frequency?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard, what was the thrust developed by the Saturn V?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		7.5 million pounds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		7.5 million pounds of thrust.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		About twice the shuttle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I really would have enjoyed being at Walter.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The first time we actually watched a launch, Walter got scared because they had built these big glass cubes sitting 3.5 miles from the launch pad with these huge windows so everybody could have a good view.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And the sound was so loud that we thought that the windows were going to shake loose from the frames and fall down on Cronkite and the whole assembled crew.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But they apparently had designed them correctly.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		They just made it.
		And then on subsequent launches, they did a lot of, brought engineers in and building contractors and they beefed them up a lot because the window was vibrating back and forth so much from this low frequency sound.
		You could feel it in your chest.
		You didn't hear it.
		You felt it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, those were the days.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, those were the days.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Those were the days.
		Anyway, last night was a kind of a taste of that.
		And I watched them climb into orbit.
		And then, as you know, today they announced a few hours after launch that they had a little bit of a problem, which is more than a little bit of a problem.
		They're kind of downplaying this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, what is it?
		They said cooling system, Richard.
		What is it?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay, if you've ever looked at the shuttle as it comes back, it looks like an airplane.
		It's got wings, it's got a tail, it's got a fuselage, and it's got the cockpit with windows.
		In space, those big doors, 65 feet long on the upper part of the shuttle from behind the cockpit to just in front of the tail, open up.
		They're called clamshell doors because they open up like two huge clamshells.
		And on the inside of those doors is a polished mirror surface.
		The problem in space is not that you get too cold.
		It's that you get too hot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I feel.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So what they have to do is they have to pump coolant through those mirror doors open to space to radiate the heat generated by the electronics and the crew in the shuttle, otherwise they would die of heat frustration.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And what's happened is that the Freon loop in one of the doors is not working.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And so they only have half the heat rejection capacity.
		It's like living out there as you do in Perump in the middle of the summer in July with a temperature outside 115 and your air conditioner, you know, you've got maybe two or three, and you lose two of them.
		You've got one left.
		Or trying to broadcast from a studio where you're supposed to keep the electronics nice and chilly and you lose your air conditioners.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have a lot of air conditioners for you.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Well, that's their problem.
		And it is so serious that if they can't find out a way to fix it, and it may be a broken line, because remember, this was Columbia.
		It's not been flying for two and a half years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was refurbished.
		Question.
		What's their condition now, do you imagine?
		In other words, with half of it gone, are they at optimal temperature or are they compromised already?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're already compromised.
		And it's like what you normally see on Star Trek, where there's a main problem in engineering and they shut down everything but environmental controls.
		To do the spacewalks, the five spacewalks, and to do the full-up mission for the 11 days to refurbish Hubble, they will need both radiators in good shape with coolant flowing through them because there's an awful lot of heat generated by a factor of shuttle mission.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How's the temperature in there now?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, they obviously turned off equipment so that the temperature is fine.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But in other words, you could sit up there in space for 11 days and not do anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They couldn't do anything.
unidentified		I'm doing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So that's the constraint.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And because it may have been vibration from the launch that broke a pipe, there's no way they can fix that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was going to be my next question.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		In other words, there's no real way they can get at that in a spacesuit, because if it's inside those mirrored sides of the clamshell doors, then it means that it's already evaporated into space.
		It's gone.
		It's like losing the Freon.
		It's just Freon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This was a mission, ostensibly, I heard, to repair the Hubble.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, they had done a Hubble mission not very long ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's going on with the Hubble that they had to go back up again?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, this was the other part of that mission that was supposed to be carried out.
		That's why they call it 3B as opposed to 3A.
		3A was the emergency of maybe about a year ago where they had to replace some gyros and some other things.
		This mission was supposed to take place now and be mission 3, the third Hubble replacement mission for gear.
		They're basically swapping out old equipment and putting in brand new instruments, and some of them are really cool, like the advanced camera for surveys.
		It's going to make Hubble ten times better.
		The pictures are going to be 10 times better than we've been seeing, and we've been seeing some amazing pictures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so this shuttle mission then is critical for Hubble.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		May be compromised.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Not compromised, and they may be coming home as early as Sunday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Put in a nutshell, they could stay in space safely for the allotted period of time, but they couldn't do their job.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's no point in the risk, I'm sure they will decide, and the appropriate thing to do is bring them back, can't fix it, bring them back, so that's what they'll do.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And the reason there's a problem on this shuttle is, remember, this is Columbia.
		This is the oldest shuttle in the fleet.
		It has not flown in space for two years almost.
		It was being refurbished in the shop.
		And they put a whole bunch of new systems in.
		And obviously, in that refurbishment, something happened.
		And it wasn't caught by quality control.
		And I'm betting that it was a mechanical plumbing problem.
		When you launch a shuttle, remember we talked about the infrasound that vibrates you on the ground?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		In the shuttle, it's deafening.
		You could actually see in some of the launch footage this afternoon that they downlinked from the shuttle, when they taped during ascent, you could see them sitting in their couches.
		And I mean, these couches are massive, bolted structures to the framework of the shuttle itself, and they're vibrating back and forth by as much as two or three inches.
		That's the amount of power and the amount of vibration that's shaking everything in that spacecraft.
		That's why they call them space-rated systems.
		It's not so much what happens when you're in orbit.
		The problem is getting there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard, question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This 11-day mission, had it gone okay?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And it still might.
		We don't know all the answers.
		The engineers, I'm sure, are working overtime tonight.
		There is backup coolant.
		They may be able to close valves in the inhabited part of the shuttle, you know, the mid-deck or the cabin.
		And, you know, the brake may not be out by the radiators.
		It may be somewhere where they can get access to it and switch from one feed to another.
		And, I mean, I do not know the engineering that well, so we'll just have to wait and see.
		The fact that they're going to have meetings all night indicates to me that they think they've got a possible fix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're going to work on it anyway.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That's that when they work on it, we know they can come up with some pretty miraculous fixes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would an 11-day mission for the shuttle normally cost us?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, it doesn't matter how long.
		It's just getting there.
		Getting the shuttle into orbit is you have paid your money.
		So whether you spend one day or 11 days in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any idea how much?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, it's a good half a billion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Every time we launch?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Every time we launch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Half a billion dollars.
unidentified		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		$500 million each time.
		Wow.
		So they're going to be probably looking real hard at what went wrong.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Obviously.
		And if they can possibly fix it, as I said, they may have backup coolant on board.
		I mean, it's like having antifrees in the desert or water.
		If your radiator boils over, you want spare water so you can get limp home.
		They may have thought of this as a contingency because it's a mechanical system.
		It could break.
		They might have to refill it.
		If they could find the leak and plug it, then it's like filling your radiator.
		But the question is, where is the leak?
		Is it inside or outside?
		Because they get to it in spacesuits.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard, we're building a new space station.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The shuttle is pretty old stuff now.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		25 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Shouldn't we be building the next gen?
		What is the next generation, and where is it?
		Where is it?
		Is it being developed or what?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was supposed to be the X33 QM X34, the single stage to orbit.
		And NASA canceled it a couple years ago because the technology just isn't there yet.
		You need boosters and staging and all that to get a decent amount of mass into orbit, even using liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but that was just a go-to-orbit and come back craft, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But that's the hard part.
		Remember Robert Heinlein?
		Once you're in orbit, you're halfway to anywhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Halfway to anywhere.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		so the x whatever it is to go to the moon well with refueling you could That's the hard part because you can't use the really efficient technologies.
		For instance, you know, there is hell to pay if you try to use nuclear power to go from Earth's surface to Earth orbit for a whole bunch of very valid reasons, environmental and other.
		You don't want to use the incredible energy of a nuclear power source to get you that first step.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I can see that.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But in space, nuclear power, as we said a few shows ago, is deroguer.
		I mean, the sun puts out so much more radiation than man-made nuclear sources that there is no problem.
		The problem is getting the nukes into orbit, because you always have the potential for an accident that would rain on your parade very, very badly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which doesn't properly describe to people what would really happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		If you had a catastrophic explosion during launch, and you had a nuclear reactor, the fear is that you would wind up spreading nuclear material over six states.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, it's a pretty safe bet, isn't it?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Depends on how it's built.
		I mean, we have built things which can survive incredible catastrophes, all right, and keep on ticking.
		3,000 Gs, things like that.
		Fire, you know, 2,000-degree temperatures.
		During the Apollo flights, they carried not nuclear reactors, but these SNAP devices, these solid-state nuclear RTGs, they're called.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but to some degree, a big reactor would be a roll of the dice to go to orbit.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It would be something you would probably want to take up in pieces and assemble in orbit.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		In other words, the criticality of a reactor is putting it all in one place.
unidentified		Sure.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So if you divided it up and built it in space, that would be the way you'd get around the safety problems in the environmental, which are very, very germane.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Now, as I said earlier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then you want to be real sure it doesn't deorbit somehow.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, if it's going to the moon or going to Mars, the odds are infinitesimal it would deorbit.
		And anything in a high Earth orbit above several hundred miles, we know predictably is going to stay there for hundreds of years.
		And it's easy to keep things in orbit.
		It's trivial to keep them in orbit.
		The hard part is getting them there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But keeping something in a lower Earth orbit is more fuel costly?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're closer to more gravity applies to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're being closer.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And there's air friction.
		Remember, there's a little atmosphere even at the altitude of the shuttle and the space station.
		That's why when the shuttle goes and visits the space station, part of its mission always is to do an orbit burn that boosts the altitude with the excess fuel that it carries up.
		So the station goes up a few miles higher.
		And so it's constantly going up and then coasting down against air friction.
		And the next mission boosts it up again.
		So it's a continual pogo stick, kind of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, are we just going to keep using the shuttle, or are we going to get something else?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, that depends on budget.
		That depends on vision.
		That depends on what the American people really want.
		Do Americans really want a space program?
		I mean, a real space program?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a very good question.
		That's right, Richard.
		I'm not sure.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I'm not either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		After 30 years of marking time and doing almost nothing, when you look at the scope of things we wanted to do, do we really want to do this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, good question.
		Hold on, Richard.
		We're at the top of the hour already.
		It is a very good question.
		One that maybe all of you ought to answer.
		That's a good question for all of you.
		Do you really want, do you want to spend a lot of money on space?
		Do you want to go to Mars?
		Do you want to start moving?
		Or do you want to stay right here for now and pay attention to home?
		That's an awfully good question.
unidentified		It's too late now.
		It's too late now.
		It's not so long.
		It's too late now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The March issue of the After Dark newsletter is like nothing you've ever seen.
		We've included images of some of the most dramatic before and after healing photos you've ever seen.
		Find out about the miraculous treatment that's saving lives and Lynn's from infection and gangrene.
		Plus, do you have a root canal?
		Read about the dentist who thinks root canals could be destroying your health.
		Plus, find out who my favorite guest from the last few years is.
		It's not who you may think.
		And of course, there's the evil Mothman.
		See the 9-11 photo that could be the Mothman at the World Trade Center tragedy.
		What an issue this is.
		It's all in the March issue of the After Dark newsletter.
		Call right now, 1-888-727-5505 for only $39.95.
		You get two free issues, 14 for the price of $12.
		The number to subscribe, 1-888-727-5505.
		Or log on to artbell.com and hit the library link to the secure server to order.
		Call now, 1-888-727-5505.
unidentified		Our hearts are broken and our souls pray for America today, for the people who lost their lives, for those who lost their loved ones, and for those who lost their sense of safety in this unprecedented tragedy.
		America is being rebuilt one day at a time.
		The Salvation Army is very grateful for your strong support.
		Call 1-800 SAL Army to find out how you can help make a difference when our country needs it most.
		God bless America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the Rockies or on the airflow.
unidentified		Who is this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who do you think it might be?
unidentified		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's try it differently.
		So let's try a different approach.
		Who are you trying to reach?
unidentified		Art Bell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's me.
unidentified		No, it's not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well.
		So you think I'm just kidding?
		Yeah, darn.
		I try and tell people I'm Art Bell all the time.
		You know, and sometimes they believe me and sometimes they don't.
		It looks like you caught me.
unidentified		USA Radio Network News, I'm L.P. Phillips.
		NASA officials decided to continue the mission of the Space Shuttle Columbia despite problems with the cooling system.
		MMT meeting that we just concluded agreed that we would continue the mission for the next 24 hours while we continued to review data and look at our processing records and our workmanship or modification records to see if there was anything that we can determine might be unusual.
		Shuttle program manager Ron Dittmore says depending on the condition of one of the Threon loops in the shuttle's cooling system, the mission may have to be terminated early and the shuttle brought home on Saturday.
		Columbia is on a mission to repair the Hubble Space Telescope.
		Former Enron President Jeffrey Skilling uses the forum of Larry King show Friday night to sound off against his treatment by members of Congress.
		Lawmakers have grilled him about the energy trading giant's collapse.
		Skilling issued an accusation of his own.
		Well, I think, you know, I certainly think that the Congress was acting as judge and jury.
		I don't think the Congress was acting as a fact-finding entity trying to figure out what happened, which is the reason I was trying to help fill in the missing pieces.
		President Bush says the U.S. has created a shadow government to make sure there's an ongoing leadership should disaster ever strike the nation's capital.
		He has confirmed representatives of key government agencies have been working in secret underground bunkers for the past six months.
		This is USA Radio News.
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		Good news on the manufacturing, retail, and construction front sent the Dow Jones Industrial Average to a six-month high Friday.
		It closed 263 points higher at 10-369.
		That puts it just over 4% for the week, something prudential analyst Brian Petarski calls a constructive day.
		Looks like March came in like a lion, or at least like a bull.
		The third straight day, we had excellent economic news on the Street of Dreams, but unlike prior two sessions, it did not fade.
		So what we had was basically some follow-through and a willingness for some traders to take home long positions over the weekend.
		I think all said and done, it's a step in the right direction, yet follow-through remains to be seen.
		Good news also drove the NASDAQ composite up for its first winning week in more than a month.
		The SP 500 also rose.
		Yes, it's still winter.
		A storm that's already unleashed half a foot of snow around Denver is heading across the Great Plains.
		A few flakes are already falling into the Dakotas and Nebraska, but Chicago is under a winter storm advisory.
		This is USA News.
		In the 1800s, people making land claims had to wait so long for their paperwork to be processed, they were called squatters.
		Today, if you're left without a car because your insurance company hasn't processed your accident claim, you could be a squatter too.
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		A federal appeals court has ordered a new trial for a New York City police officer convicted of assaulting a prisoner in a Brooklyn police station.
		Charles Schwartz was convicted of violently assaulting Abner Luima back in 1997 with, among other things, the handle of a toilet plunger.
		Two other police officers have also been ordered to stand trial another time.
		Many think their taxes stink.
		Well, this may be a case of poetic justice.
		California's main tax office had to be evacuated Friday after a wave of raw sewage rolled through the halls.
		Authorities aren't sure where the muck came from, but about 2,000 employees had to stop what they were doing, which was processing tax returns from the USA Radio Network I'm L.P. Phillips.
		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The March issue of After Dark is not for the fate of heart.
		If you're the least bit screenish, when the March issue comes in the mail, you might think twice about reading it.
		Not only are there scary articles about the legendary Mothman creatures and the dangers of root canals, but there are pictures that very well may gross you out.
		See for yourself the revolutionary last-ditch treatment that's saving limbs from infection and gangrene when surgery and antibiotics have failed.
		It's not pretty, but it's great reading, and it's all in the Strange Medicine issue of the After Dark newsletter.
		It's a good time to get on board and subscribe.
		Call right now, 1-888-727-5505, and you'll get 14 issues for the price of 12.
		That's too free.
		Free.
		The number once again, 1-888-727-5505.
		Or subscribe online at arcbell.com.
		Just hit the library link to the secure server to order the one and only After Dark newsletter.
unidentified		Crying on the corner, waiting in the rain that's let all never wait again.
		You gave me a word, words for you all.
		Darling in my wildest dreams, I never fall at gold.
		But it's time to let you know for to harden my heart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to talk about heart and hearts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You gotta see this past blast.
unidentified		It says, Forget NASA, let's build more bombs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you all want a space program?
		Maybe we'll be asking that later in the program.
		Do you really want a space program?
		Do you want to go to Mars and beyond?
		Is that something you want the U.S. to do or not?
		It's really a good question.
		We're going to make a pretty good case for Mars here, I think, coming right up.
unidentified		To rechart bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the Wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with our bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not at all sure we could get away with doing it right now politically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, now, a shadow government, they could do it.
unidentified		They could go anywhere they wanted to go.
		Because they're the shadow government.
		We'll be right back.
		you Take a look at this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's gigantic.
		It's at forthenightsky.com, and it's only $299 plus shipping and handling.
		You have to pay that.
		Has a wood base.
		It's so big.
		It takes about 20 minutes to put that together, and then the scope mounts on that.
		And oh my.
		It just is a really big one.
		A big bang for the buck.
		And if you look hard enough, maybe you'll even see that.
		The number to call is 1-877-447-4847.
		But before you call that number, which I'll give again in a second, go to forthenightsky.com and see it.
		That's F-O-R-ThenightSky.com.
		All 80 letters.
		And then call them at 1-877-447-4847.
		It's a good thing you can do for yourself.
		Once again, Richard C. Hopeland.
		And Richard, let's go now to Mars.
		All this news.
		What is the news coming from Mars?
		What are we we're learning some pretty heavy information is what I've heard.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		We're learning some extraordinary information, but the bizarre thing art is that NASA today played it like a cold fish.
		I mean, we have some stunning news to announce tonight, and I wanted enough time to go into the implications, because that's what science is.
		It's not just the evidence, it's what it means, what the context is.
		And these guys sat on this panel this afternoon for 45 minutes and basically said almost nothing compared to what we have got in the way of evidence, the data now.
		They totally underplayed their pre-billing.
		There was a leak by Leonard David, who's an old friend of mine, who writes now for Space.com, who was talking to the guys at the University of Arizona, you know, the ones that are in charge of the Odyssey camera, this theme is camera that can see in the visible and the infrared.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And he said that, you know, they were bubbling about, you know, it's a whole new Mars.
		It's a fantastic planet.
		We never knew this Mars before.
		You would have never known that there was this excitement by watching the NASA press conference this afternoon.
		It was dry as dust.
		And it was so downplayed that nobody, I mean, they got, listen to this, Garrett, they got three questions from the national press.
unidentified		Three lousy questions.
unidentified		Three.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they must have really downplayed it.
		All right.
		I mean, I just know you, Richard.
		You're going to do a great job of blowing this way beyond its proportion.
		So give it your best shot.
		Let's hear it.
		Listen, folks, we've got images up on my website right now of what Richard is about to talk about.
		They are very legible indeed.
		Now, how do you get there, artbell.com?
		Under program, tonight's guest info, under the name Richard C. Hoagland, we've got one, two, three, four links.
		Link number one is entitled Mars Odyssey Data.
		All right?
		I've got it on the screen, Richard.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The small screen size, right?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The 90K?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay, what we have here are three graphics side by side.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Left, middle, and right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The one on the right, let's start on the right.
		Okay.
		This is the graphic that was presented by Dr. William Boynton, who is the principal investigator from the University of Arizona of the Gamma-ray spectrometer on Odyssey.
		The gamma-ray spectrometer is a gadget.
		It's actually three instruments in one.
		It measures gamma rays, which is where it got its name, which are very high-energy beyond the X-ray region of the spectrum, electromagnetic waves.
		And they come basically from nuclear reactions.
		When cosmic rays hit stuff, you, me, the atmosphere, they generate gamma rays.
		The other two instruments in this suite of instruments on the Odyssey spacecraft are two neutron detectors.
		You know, back in good old high school when you were learning atomic physics and all that, and there were fundamental particles, protons and electrons and neutrons.
		Well, neutrons are one of the building blocks of all matter.
		When cosmic rays interact with materials on planets, particularly with water, they give off neutrons and or gamma rays.
		So it's kind of like the signature, the fingerprints of water.
		And that's what this instrument is looking for, is the telltale fingerprints of water 250 miles below Odyssey as it orbits the planet.
		This gadget is listening or looking, because it's not really imaging.
		It's sensing with detectors these neutrons or gamma rays.
		And it has about a 300, no, 180-mile footprint underneath.
		In other words, its pixel size is 180 miles.
		So if you can imagine Mars covered with spots, each 180 miles wide, and it's been in orbit now for, what, since October, November, December, January, February, March.
		It's been in orbit for almost 1,000 orbits of Mars.
		So it's been covering the planet.
		So what they did is they produced global maps as Boynton and his team did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what they're doing.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		They have a distribution of basically neutron reflections.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Which means where things get a little hairier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have to know what we're seeing here, what it means.
unidentified		All right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		On the right is a view of Mars as seen from the point directly above the South Pole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I thought.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And the blue circle in the middle is the South Polar Cap of Mars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		South Polar Cap of Mars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		South Polar Cap.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Now, the black outline going around the graphic is basically the separation between the heavily cratered southern hemisphere and the more lightly cratered northern hemisphere.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And you can see that this graphic extends to the equator.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Now, what you want to do is to take the colors that you see, the blues, the reds, the yellows, the greens, and translate them into the presence or absence of neutrons.
		Now, here's where things get a little dicey.
		Water, if it's down there, is composed of hydrogen and oxygen, H2O.
		The hydrogen will interact very strongly with the neutrons.
		That's why water is used in nuclear reactors to moderate neutrons.
		That's why they call it a moderator.
		Gotcha.
		So in this case, the absence of evidence is the evidence of the absence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What, what, why?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The fewer neutrons we get back is the higher the presence of hydrogen, chlum, water down there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So the blue stuff represents few neutrons.
		The red stuff represents a lot of neutrons.
		And the spectrum in between is a gradation.
		In other words, if you're looking at stuff that's going to absorb the neutrons, the water, you'll see very few neutrons coming up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, go to the middle graphic.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the middle graphic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm a simple person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, we're not there yet.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		We're not there yet.
		Stay with the one on the right.
		Stay with the one on the right.
		That's today's exciting news.
		Because remember, I said on this program after we published our Mars title paper that there was an absolute canonical prediction of our paper.
		The Mars that we were going to find from this mission, from our mission.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I recall you're saying that, yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Was not the Mars that NASA or any of the mainstream guys thought they were dealing with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everybody knows you said that.
unidentified		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And what we did as part of science, because this is what science is, is specific prediction.
		I mean, that's what science does.
		It basically looks at the universe, you know, presents or concentrates.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember what you predicted, Richard.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		We said that the water that we would find on Mars would be concentrated in two regions around the equator on opposite sides of the planet in a bimodal distribution.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I testify you said those words.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay, and of course it's on every damn website in the world.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		If you look at the HEN data, HEN, by the way, H-E-N-D stands for High Energy Neutron Data.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Really hard.
		Look at this HEN data.
		You'll see there's a lot of missing neutrons in the middle where the polar cap is, which means down to 60 degrees south, it's water down there.
		Gobs and gobs and gobs of water.
		Of course, it's in the form of ice.
		It's frozen because it's very cold.
		But if you look at the upper right at about the 1 o'clock position and the lower left at about the 7 o'clock position, you'll see there's blue there too.
		That blue is on the Arabia and Tharsis bulges.
		Corresponding now, we move to the center graphic.
		Corresponding to the MOLA map, remember, Mars surveyor carries a laser and was able to generate altitude maps.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Totography.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And it found there are two regions on Mars that bulge above the mean datum or the, quote, sea level, even though Mars doesn't have seas anymore.
		One is Tharsis, huge set of volcanoes on a huge uplift.
		And on the opposite side of the planet, all right, scroll down just a tad on your screen, you'll see it named Arabia.
		If you look at the geometry of the Tharsis and Arabia bulges, compare it to now the graphic on the right, the Hen graphic, of the neutron blue, moderate absence of neutrons indicating absorption by water, by hydrogen down there, they are exactly the same.
		The only thing you have to do is make a transform in your mind because the graphic from MOLA is looking at the North Pole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're telling me there's water at these two bulge points?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Underground.
		Remember, this neutron data comes from down to three or four feet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And where you see the red going to orange in Arabia there, that would be the amount of...
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
		No.
		The middle graphic has nothing to do with the neutrons, nothing to do with water.
		It has to do with topography.
		The colors on the middle graphic are the elevation.
		The blue there is low, and the red is high.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, fine.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The neutron stuff is in the right graphic.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		What I was doing here was showing people, everybody who's looking at this site now, that the correspondence of the high and low points on Mars corresponds to the two bilobed water distribution as outlined by Dr. Boynton this afternoon.
unidentified		And this is stunning cultural physical news.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard, in these bulges, then, where does that mean the water probably is?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Underground?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It's underground.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's underground.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Now, if you go all the way to the left, scroll all the way to the left.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Here's a Mercator projection.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Remember our friends Efron Palermo and Jill England?
unidentified		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The two folks that put together the SEPS map after we discovered the first weird black stain in July of 2000?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		They put together a map of hundreds and hundreds of these stains, which NASA claims are avalanches, dust.
		And Ephron and Jill and I are absolutely firmly on Mike Barrett.
		I shouldn't forget Mike because he did a tremendous amount of work on this.
		We are of the opinion, we were of the opinion, that the seeps, the stains, were water melting from underground ice and leaking out on the surface.
		And when I saw the two positions, the Tharsis Rise and the Arabia Bulge, where they're concentrated, as you can see on Ephraim's map, that's where I got the data to say, well, Mars may have been a satellite of a bigger planet, a la Tom Van Flandern.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How could Mars have recently had any water flow at all?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, how could water be flowing on Mars?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, and if it's warm, it will melt.
		And Gil Levin, remember Gil Levin, the scientist that biosphere...
		And it turns out now that we have been misled in thinking that because the atmospheric pressure is so low, that water would just evaporate and never form a little pond.
		In fact, for several hours, if you had enough water coming up from underground, you would have a puddle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this water coming from below ground on Mars is a result of some kind of internal volcanic action?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, that would be one source of heat.
		Another source would be good old solar heating.
		It would be just sunlight warming the surface, and it percolates down through the rock and eventually warms it up within a few feet of the surface.
		What's crucial about what they announced today, I mean, this is absolute data and it's only going to get better because this is low-sensitive data.
		When they extend the boom on the gamma-ray instrument, which they'll do in about a month, they'll increase their sensitivity because they're basically hugging the body of the spacecraft, and the presence of the spacecraft is interfering with the clarity of the signal.
		But The signal is so strong, as Dr. Boynton pointed out, that even in this position, which was only supposed to be calibration, I mean, this is literally just a few days of data.
		You know, this is a few hundred orbits.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then, Richard, why weren't they jumping up and down the way you are?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That is the exquisite $64 million question, because this is the news out of today's press conference.
		Mars data from this spacecraft, totally untouched by Hoagland and colleagues, is totally affirming the tidal model.
		The implications of that are a revolution in our understanding of not just Mars, of the solar system.
		Because what it means is that Mars at one time was tidally locked as a moon, as a satellite, orbiting a big guy in the asteroid belt.
		And either that planet blew up, a la Tom Van Flandern, or collided with something, a la our alternative model.
		But in any case, it was blown to snitherenes.
		And Mars was set free relatively late in the history of the solar system as an independent planet with an eccentric orbit and with a bizarre history.
		Because when a planet blows up or is smashed into rubble in your front yard, really bad things happen to the place you're standing on.
		So the catastrophe, the southern zone of intense cratering and all that, which the mainstream guys at NASA keep claiming is old, old, old, you know, as old as the solar system, uh-uh, it's young.
		It could be as young as 65 million years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dinosaur age.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		A date, of course, is when the dinosaurs bought it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's old.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Because a big chunk of rock came screaming out of the sky and hit the Yucatan.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You understand why this is huge news?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		This neutron distribution is implacably resistant now to change.
		They can't take back what they've published.
		So what they did is they sat there on that dais.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You wouldn't really suppose, Richard, that they were simply disappointed that they were having to be out there confirming what you said.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think people are that small.
		I think people are of limited imagination.
		And the death knell of science is when scientists don't think big enough.
		Remember, it's not the far-outness of your ideas.
		It's the ability to test those ideas, which is the hallmark of good science.
		And on this program and on our website and around the world, we published a model that said this is what the GRS is going to find when they publish their data.
		Did we not?
unidentified		Yep.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And tonight on this program, I can very nicely announce that we have been confirmed, everybody.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And we are in a whole new era now because at some point the mainstream has got to catch up with this data.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about these reports of greenery, of shrubbery, of things that appear to be, for lack of a better name, growing things, trees, whatever?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what that is.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		My friend Arthur Clark is maintaining staunchly, sitting there in his lush paradise of Sri Lanka, half a planet away tonight, that there are big banyan-type trees at the South Pole of Mars.
		Well, look at the right-hand graphic.
		Look at the gobs and gobs of water.
		Some reporter today, a very bright gal, works for the Los Angeles Times, who was one of the really curious folks that asked the question, she said, Dr. Boynton, can you quantify how much water is down there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what do you say?
unidentified		No.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		He says, no, we're going to need more time.
		Actually, he could have, but he didn't want to.
		And that raises other interesting questions.
		Why don't they want to?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why wouldn't he want to?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Because that leads them inexorably to the questions they obviously don't want to deal with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe he was just playing it scientifically safe.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Maybe.
		But I mean, given that he's already saying on the one hand it's a huge signal.
		In other words, science is conservative when it's dealing with marginal data.
		It's right at the edge between noise and information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you said that yourself in a way.
		You didn't quite say that.
		You said the signal is not what it's going to be, and the definition is not what it's going to be.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but we're talking a few percentage points.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're planet safe.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, no, no.
		It's all back in the numbers.
		He actually was asked a question about, the guy from Aviation Week asked him, well, how much better is it going to get?
		And he said, well, for the water, not much better because it's so huge now, and there's no water in Mars Odyssey to absorb the neutrons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		All right?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's basically a bone-dry spacecraft.
		But he said, for things like aluminum, you know, the spacecraft is built out of aluminum.
		So if you have your detector sitting right next to aluminum panel and you're 250 miles above aluminum on Mars, you're going to have a signal-to-noise problem until you extend your boom out away from your spacecraft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he's waiting for the boom.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That's a nice way to put it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Waiting for the boom.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Or the boom lift.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on, Richard.
		All right, here we are at the bottom of the hour.
		That's a lot of water, all right.
unidentified		That's really a lot of water.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't you wonder what really happened to Mars?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it really some moon that was somewhere freed from going around the planet because the planet blew up?
unidentified		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did all that happen about the time the dinosaurs died?
		And if so, what do you suppose came through?
		Something really big, eh?
unidentified		I can hear it coming in the air of the night, hold on.
		And I've been waiting for this summer for all my life.
		Art Bell welcomes a variety of interesting guests to his program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some are names you may not know.
unidentified		Others are names you know very well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is Leonard Nimoy.
leonard nimoy ▲ ● ▼		Leonard, welcome to the program.
		Thank you.
		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have such a short time that I feel obligated to literally pummel you with questions.
unidentified		Okay, well, how much chance do you think there really is that we will be contacted?
leonard nimoy ▲ ● ▼		There are something like four billion stars in our galaxy alone, and There are billions of other galaxies.
		Each of those stars are potential suns just like ours.
		And that means that if one out of every million of those stars has planets around it, and one out of every million of those has some kind of life on it, then the numbers tell us that the chances are very, very great that there is life out there someplace.
unidentified		Coast to coast AM with Ardell asks you, how secure are you?
		I'm a security officer.
		Yeah.
		And I got some really weird things going on here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like what?
unidentified		I'll walk by and I'll check a room and everything's in place.
		And I'll come back.
		Five minutes later, there'll be chairs stacked on top of tables.
		Yeah.
		I'll tell you, I watch a lot of movies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And in a lot of movies, security guards, they're the first victims.
unidentified		They're eaten, they're mauled, they're torn into pieces.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, they're disposable.
unidentified		Well, you're supposed to be giving me some good advice, Siri.
unidentified		Well, I'm not supposed to try to scare me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, you've seen the movies.
unidentified		I've got a witness.
unidentified		I'm not just imagining this stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In most movies I've seen, they wouldn't be able to tell his parts from yours.
		In some movies, all they find is the badge.
		I know.
		I'm just messing with you, sir.
		I'm just messing with you.
unidentified		Bizarre stories are the order of the day on Art Bell's Ghost to Ghost AM.
unidentified		This caller says his elderly sister is being visited by extraterrestrials.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It started one night about two months ago.
unidentified		She got in bed and something grabbed her by the foot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hate these kinds of stories.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		She pulled her foot back and they grabbed her foot again and stuck a needle in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really hate those stories.
unidentified		And they pulled the covers back and sprayed the back of her head and stuck the needle in her head.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then she ran to get her brother to help.
unidentified		He thought she was imagining it, so he went and laid on her bed.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And they sat on his feet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They sat on his feet.
unidentified		Yep.
unidentified		So he kicked them off.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But they don't seem to bother him as much.
unidentified		She's kind of gotten used to them now.
unidentified		They put a probe of her nose.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But they've gotten to where they'll sleep on the bed with her.
unidentified		Join Art Bell all night, overnight on coast to coast a.m.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If that was me, I would be wanting to talk to an exorcist right now.
		The After Dark newsletter has been reporting subjects that we talked about right here on the show.
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unidentified		The End
		Some velvet morning when I'm straight.
		I'm gonna open up your gate and maybe tell you about Phaedra how she gave me life and how she made it.
		So build it for us trees.
		Flowers grow on our heads, blood and bless and perfect learn from us very much.
		Look at us, but do not touch.
		Phaedra is my name Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who would be the main occupants of a shadow government?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, shadow people.
unidentified		Thank you.
		After Drugs.
		It's a fact.
		Kids who have something to do are less likely to do drugs.
		So if you can spare an hour or two, you can keep a kid off drugs.
		To find out about community drug prevention groups, call Toll Free 1-877-KIDS313.
		1-877-KIDS313.
		A public service message from the Office of National Drug Control Policy in the Ad Council.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, back now to Richard C. Hogland.
		All right, Richard, so there's water on Mars, quite a bit of water on Mars.
		They downplayed that today.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, no, no.
		It's not the quantity.
		It's the distribution.
		It's where it's hanging out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That's the crucial major story here.
		I mean, we suspected because we've known since Viking that there was water in both hemispheres.
		We know there's water in the atmosphere.
		The infrared instrument on Viking actually detected water leaving Mars, as did the ultraviolet instrument, at the rate of 100,000 tons per hour.
		You know, breaking up through the sunlight, just leaving into space.
		So it had to come from somewhere.
		So we've known there's water, but we didn't know until today the distribution.
		And it's the distribution which is the key, because you can't get tidal distribution without there being tides.
		I mean, I'm sitting here looking at the top of this mountain tonight through my windows, a gorgeous, give us moon.
		A few nights ago, it was full.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why should we go to Mars, Richard?
		I mean, this is all very interesting, really interesting, and the foliage and the water and all the rest of it.
		But give me the good reasons, the good, solid, national reasons why we should go to Mars.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, our take on it is a little different than the NASA folks you would talk to, because our take is that the human race is not going to figure out who it is until it goes to Mars and finds out why that face is lying near at Sidonia.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That the human race somehow had a genesis connected with Mars, with an exquisite civilization.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the face aside for a moment, Richard, is there likely to be anything on Mars below the surface that might be found that would indicate, or even on the surface for that matter, that would indicate that there was life on Mars previously, a large life, perhaps even intelligent life?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you read the title paper, you'll see that the title model says that Mars, as it orbited this bigger planet, basically experienced a temperate environment similar to the Earth's for about as long as the Earth's.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Remember, life on Earth made its huge explosion into complex forms leading to us about half a billion years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then Mars was a moon, a temperate climate moon of a much larger planet.
unidentified		Much larger planet.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It would have had a climate and environment similar to Earth now for the same amount of time.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Now, if evolution proceeded here to produce the incredible complexity that we see around us today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We made a big argument about that the other night.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Evolution, creation.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, I come down on the side of evolution.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I think that God does things in more interesting and subtle ways than intervening directly between the two.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was speaking with somebody who thought that man has been here only 6,000 years.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I know the argument.
		And I also know the counter-arguments.
		The whole point is that if Mars had this incredible environment that this tidal model now says it had, then the evolution of complex life was almost inevitable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Particularly when you take into account factors that we're working on that we haven't published yet, having to do with the hyperdimensional model, which gets to the question of why if evolution is an absolute, that it has to occur given certain conditions which you claim were present on Mars, there definitely would have been life, perhaps intelligent life on Mars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There would have been enough time.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Half a billion years, exactly the same amount of time as here.
		Now, in the paper, we go through the ways that we know they had about that much time.
		And obviously tonight we can't do this on the air.
		But it's there if you want to read.
		The paper is available in our latest post, which, by the way, Mike put a really cute title.
		He decided to call our post tonight when we're right, we're right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's fine.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Which is the link at the bottom website article.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Given these new discoveries, Richard, where would you send your first mission to Mars?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would it be to the face Sidonia region, or would it be to one of these regions?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, remember Christensen, who was the Themis guy, which we're going to get to a Themis image.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It was presented today in a couple of minutes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just wondering if you're changing your mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, not at all.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I would go for the civilization, the technology, and work backward.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Because remember, the most interesting guys in the neighborhood are folks you can talk to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why wouldn't civilization have developed in the areas where water was more frequent?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It would.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Or along the shoreline.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		All right?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And Sidonia is along the shoreline of an ancient ocean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We've known that for many, many years.
		The key thing that this data today does is it makes it inescapable that the tidal model is real.
		You can't get that distribution of water art any other way.
		You know why?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Tharsis bulge is a 16-mile-high bulge.
		How do you get water to sit on top of a 16-mile-high mountain?
		Normally, gravity would make it go downhill, wouldn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		To go to the low port.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		How do you get fossil water underground as ice on two bulges on opposite sides of the planet that are miles above the sea level?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You freeze it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, but you have to have frozen it when the gravity field was different, when the tides, when there was a frozen tide.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good point.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I was going to go back to our own moon.
		If you look at the moon tonight, anybody who's outside, take a board of radio, go out and look at the moon.
		You were looking at the same side of the moon you see tonight, tomorrow night, the next night, a month, a year, ten years, a thousand years.
		Because the moon rotates around the Earth in the same amount of time that it takes to spin on its axis.
		That's called a tidal lock.
		If the moon was not airless, if the moon had water, there would be a big bulge of water on this side, several hundred feet high, and a big bulge of water on the far side, the side that we can't see from the Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it, of course, does have some water deposited apparently by comets.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		At the pole, frozen like the water we see on Mars now in this data.
		But if the moon could support an atmosphere and water in a liquid state, if there was enough pressure to maintain it as a liquid, you would have two bulges of water on both sides exactly like we're seeing in this Mars data tonight.
		So what that is telling us, I mean, we're talking very simple laws of physics here, fundamental, unbreakable laws of planetary physics.
		That distribution of water says that the tidal model is real, that Mars experienced the extraordinary history that I and then Flanner and others have said it has, and that it had a half a billion-year window to develop as complex a life form as is talking on the air tonight to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you believe that if we go to Mars, Richard, we could uncover irrefutable signs of that civilization.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Look, in the next few weeks, remember Christensen, the head of the Themis camera, who presented a pretty amazing image today and again, completely downplayed its significance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
		All right, if my scientific caution wasn't enough for you, then let's have it, Richard.
		Why would they downplay this so much?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, go to the next image, all right?
		Go to, you know, the whole rig and roll.
		Guest tonight, go to image demonstrates remarkable geometry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
		Okay, I'm at the wrong one then.
		Hold on.
		Yeah, okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Here's the third click.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God, what is this?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Ah.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		This is the top of, we put it at the top of the page, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What the hell is this?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		This is a 65-by-20-mile nighttime image taken in the infrared.
		The bright stuff is warm.
		The dark stuff is cold or cool.
		Wow.
		And just scroll down.
		All right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm doing that.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Follow the red arrows.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Look at the geometry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Look at the intense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It looks like a honeycomb.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, a honeycomb.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It looks like an ancient Anasazi ruin, actually, boys and girls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, it does.
		How big is what we're seeing?
		Can you give me a scale?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Each of these regions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Image is 65 miles by 65 by 20.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So each of these regions is about three miles across, these honeycombs.
unidentified		Wow.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And the little things are much, much tinier.
		Now, look at the crenellations on the sides.
		Christensen said these were mesas.
		Go down to the second image.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They do look like mesas.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, have you ever seen maces with double walls?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in other words, if you look at the center one, there's a particularly striking outline that looks lower or more jagged or away from a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It looks kind of like a mesa.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But look at the enlargements.
		Look at the regular patterning.
		Like, if you follow the red arrows, you see how I've got an arrow going down to the right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On there, okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		All right, go just below the tip of the arrow.
unidentified		Yep.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		There is a perfect six-sided geometry there with one, two, three crinolations on the northeast face of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what do you think we're looking at?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I think we're looking at buried remains of a huge ancient Martian city.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Remember, the Themis data is coming not just from the surface, but from under the surface, because when you cover things with dust, the dust acts like an insulator, like a blanket.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These are interesting photos, folks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When did we get these today?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		At 2 o'clock Eastern Time.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And Phil Christensen, remember, he's the guy who said a few weeks ago that Sidonia was now at the top of the list of the themes targets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This doesn't look natural.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It sure as hell doesn't.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And yet he sat there with a straight face and claimed it was MACES.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but they always do that.
unidentified		Of course.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Now, what we found, and I was trying to tell you the other day and you were in a restaurant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which has never made any sense to me, and they say it too.
		You know, when I have the NASA guys on, they say, you know, if we found what we even thought might be a hint of life, we would be screaming it from the top of our lungs because NASA would get funding and we could go to Mars and we could do everything we wanted.
		So why wouldn't we say it?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The proverbial gold card, yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, that is the simplistic perspective.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then why weren't they jumping up and down and going, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Because, and I've said this again over and over and again, our model now, our political model, forget the science now, the political model of what's been going on with NASA is you are stuck between a rock and a hard place between the hard Brookings guys who basically claim that civilization would implode if we find out that we're not the king of the walk.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some of my callers would implode.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a huge contingent politically in the country.
		They supported Ronald Reagan.
		They're buying Jerry Falwell.
		Pat Robertson wants to stone people who believe in UFOs and ETs.
unidentified		Of course.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You know, he also thinks that Muslims are bad people.
		So we put Robertson where he belongs.
		The fact is that there is a large percentage of the body politic which believes that this would be the worst thing ever for religious reasons.
		And I am coming to believe that the reason that we don't have, quote, disclosure and the reason we don't have scientists sitting on a dais and saying, look at these amazing pictures, we've got to go there and find out what this really means, is because of the religious implications for the politically correct that believe that if they were to put this out on the table, we would destroy ourselves.
		They really believe Brookings.
		I mean, look, you're kind of a liberal kind of guy when it comes to this stuff, and you believe Brookings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Richard, you know, I believe what I hear.
		I listen to my callers, you know, so I believe what I hear.
		And there are times not listening, but how can they deny the geometric symmetry here?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Now, go down to the third one.
		Follow the arrow down to the third one.
		I've done an enlargement.
		Look at that incredible parallelogram.
		Look at the crenellations on the right side.
		Look at the double walls on the left side.
		Look at the little doorways at the bottom.
		Look at the one to the right of it.
		You see that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They could be those things.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the overall picture, that's what stuns me.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, look at the regularity.
		It's when did you see erosion neatly carving scallops?
		One, two, three.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I kind of agree.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		All right?
		I mean, we don't know what this is because we don't have enough resolution yet.
		But we could.
		We could.
		It's all a matter of money and focusing and public pressure.
		I think that Christensen and his guys know exactly what's down there.
		And the reason they know what's down there is because in 1989, the Soviet Union, back when it was the Soviet Union, sent two missions to Mars, Phobos 1 and Phobos 2, named after the inner moon.
		Phobos 1 got a wrong command, we were told, and self-destructed electromagnetically in September of 1988 after being lost in July.
		Phobos 2 made it all the way to Mars, went into orbit in January, and on March 1st, precisely 13 years prior to this afternoon, took a picture in the infrared a few miles away from this picture art, which we have on our website.
		Just go to Enterprise and look at tonight's second story.
		After the We Are Right story, which is today's story, look at yesterday's, which is the game's afoot again.
		And you will find a series of images, including the missing infrared image for the last 13 years.
		We found it.
		We dug it up.
		And we put it out there.
		It shows the most astonishing regular geometry a few miles away from this picture, which looks for all the world like a buried city.
		In fact, Dr. John Becklake of the London Museum of Science, who put up a huge exhibit on this in 1989, he stood in front of that exhibit and he said, basically, it looks like Los Angeles.
		And that story never made it across the Atlantic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Never made it here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm on your website.
unidentified		Go down to the second story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's only a whole new Mars to them.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That's the first one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And there's our two underwhelming gentlemen.
		Yep.
		Then infrared close-up.
		Right?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay, no, that's the story.
		You have to go to the main website.
		You have to go to the bottom and hit Home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, all right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You know how the web works.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, fine.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And then click down to the second story, which is the game's afoot again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am there.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Click on that.
unidentified		Yep.
unidentified		Yep.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And that should load quickly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's loaded.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Now go down past John O'Keefe.
		Past that image?
		Yeah.
		They're loading quickly even online.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		Go down to...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Phobos 2 Thermal IR.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Oh, my God.
		Now, you know what, Richard?
		You know what?
		That does look like Los Angeles.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It really looks like Los Angeles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll give you that.
unidentified		So this was missing?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		This was, no, we found it because it's been bandied about on the web for the last five years, but no one had the image.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, is this part or a larger, less defined photograph of the same area?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		All right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		See the one in color on the right versus white angle?
unidentified		It really does look like a city.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		See the one in color on the right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I do.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It says Fogos 2 image March 189.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		All right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Look at the red arrow again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The close-up is the one on the upper left that is regions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It looks like buildings and stuff, doesn't it?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and now if you scan further down, I've now got close-ups of the close-up and look at the geometry and look at the octagons and the little slanted.
		Okay, now this was from the Soviets.
		So the FEMAS guys, Christensen and NASA, they've known what was there.
		What are the odds on a planet which has 15 million square miles that they will take a picture over the hill from the Soviet picture exactly 13 years ago and hold a press conference 13 years ago to the hour From the ones the Soviets held, talking about the same kind of stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does look like a city, Richard.
		I'm used to looking at no photographs.
		And you can enlarge them, and that's just what it looks like when you see a big city like dust.
		Richard, let me ask you just straight out.
		Is that in fact what you think we're looking at here?
unidentified		Is a city an entire city.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		If you had a thriving civilization.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard, top of the hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on.
unidentified		What is it good for?
		Absolutely nothing.
		What is it good for?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know, but when you're having them, it's harder to go to places like Mars.
unidentified		Who broke out?
		What is it good for?
		I have to live.
		Listen to me.
		I want, I despise.
		Cause it means the storm of this life.
		I want, I despise.
		Woman dead, and I'll come over with a bad dog and the man.
		I've been walking to God, y'all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The March issue of After Dark is not for the faint of heart.
		If you're the least bit squeamish, when the March issue comes in the mail, you might think twice about reading it.
		Not only are there scary articles about the legendary Mothman creature and the dangers of root canals, but there are pictures that very well may gross you out.
		See for yourself the revolutionary last-ditch treatment that's saving limbs from infection and gangrene when surgery and antibiotics have failed.
		It's not pretty, but it's great reading.
		And it's all in the strange medicine issue of the After Dark newsletter.
		It's a good time to get on board and subscribe.
		Call right now, 1-888-727-5505, and you'll get 14 issues for the price of 12.
		That's too free.
		Free.
		The number once again, 1-888-727-5505.
		Or subscribe online at artbell.com.
		Just hit the library link to the secure server to order the one and only After Dark newsletter.
unidentified		You've heard the proverb.
		Give me a fish and you feed me for a day.
		Teach me to fish and you feed me for a lifetime.
		Those are wise words to keep in mind, especially when you're looking for ways to help your community.
		And they're words that one organization, Volunteers of America, lives by.
		Give me a fish and you feed me for a day.
		Every day, Volunteers of America clothes people, houses them, and feeds them.
		Teach me to fish and you feed me for a lifetime.
		But Volunteers of America also helps people help themselves to build new lives.
		We help the homeless, the elderly, children, families, doing what's needed for the community and the people who live there.
		Give me a fish and you feed me for a day.
		Teach me to fish and you feed me for a lifetime.
		Through Volunteers of America, you can help change lives in your community.
		Find out what you can do.
		Call 1-800-899-0089.
		1-800-899-0089.
		USA Radio Network News.
		I'm L.P. Phillips.
		For now, the Space Shuttle Columbia will stay right where it is, roughly 400 miles straight up.
		A problem with the cooling system is not serious enough to bring the oldest shuttle back to Earth immediately, but it is cause for concern.
		Mission managers decided to keep the crew in orbit for at least one more day while they consider all the options.
		Shuttle program manager Ron Dittmore says the crew is not in any immediate danger.
		Not in a condition where we have to come home early at this time.
		Our initial looks at the system show it to be stable, even with the degradation.
		Shuttle managers will discuss the situation again Saturday afternoon.
		A jury in Houston has seen the first visual proof of Andrea Yates' mental illness.
		A videotape showing a gaunt Yates explaining why she drowned her five children was played in court.
		The video shows Yates just three weeks after the murders.
		Her rail-thin body is motionless except for the constant clenching of her jaws.
		Prosecutors want the death penalty.
		Her lawyers claim she was insane.
		President Bush is talking about retirement, not his, yours, namely pensions.
		In Iowa, the president proposes reforms in the pension laws, letting private citizens invest their own Social Security.
		The best way to battle an economic slowdown is to get people your own money back so you can spend it.
		And as you spend it, it encourages new products and jobs.
		This is USA News.
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		I heard about Trinity debt management, so I called and talked to a counselor.
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		Keep more of what you make.
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		Trinity, nonprofit debt management.
unidentified		We should talk.
		Call 1-800-218-8220.
		We should talk.
		That's 1-800-218-8220.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or visit TrinityCredit.org.
unidentified		USA's John Decker now reports Democrats and Republicans are accusing each other of injecting politics into the war on terrorism.
		Republicans said it was Tom Daschell, the Senate's majority leader, who was plunging into politics.
		The dust-up began when, in response to questions by reporters, Daschell said that while the fight against terrorism has been successful so far, the continued success is still somewhat in doubt.
		The president did not respond to Daschell's criticism of the war effort, but other Republicans were direct in criticizing Daschell, including Senate Minority Leader Trent Lott and House Majority Whip Tom DeLay, who called it disgusting.
		John Decker, USA Radio News, Washington.
		March roars in like a lion.
		A storm that's already left half a foot of snow around Denver is now heading east across the Great Plains.
		Few flakes are already falling over the Dakotas and Nebraska, but meteorologists say the heaviest snow is scheduled for the Milwaukee and Chicago areas, where they are under winter storm advisories.
		This is USA News.
		Millions of Americans who do their taxes on their computers will be getting more rest this tax season thanks to IRS e-file.
		Instead of printing out their tax returns and running out to the mailbox in the middle of the night, they'll file their taxes electronically.
		It's accurate, secure, and you get your refund in half the time.
		You can even sign electronically.
		So this tax season, delete the paperwork and hit send with IRS e-file.
		For details, visit irs.gov.
		Now, get some sleep.
		The bulls run a rampage as investors sent the Dow Jones Industrial Average to its highest closing mark in six months.
		The stampede follows a litany of sunny economic reports.
		Rises in manufacturing orders, retail sales, and constructions lifted the Dow 2.5%.
		It closed at $10,369.
		NASDAQ and the SP 500 also gained.
		A man who will turn 101 years old next month crashed his car in front of the West Palm Beach driver's license facility.
		It was moments after making an appointment to renew his license.
		Murray Silver, whose doctors found him fit to drive during the day, pulled out of the facility and struck a car driven by a 47-year-old woman.
		She was treated and released.
		Neither Silver nor a somewhat younger 75-year-old passenger in his car were hurt.
		If the Century Village resident's license is renewed next week, he'll be authored to drive until he is age 106.
		From the USA Radio Network, I'm L.P. Phillips.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The March issue of the After Dark newsletter is like nothing you've ever seen.
		We've included images of some of the most dramatic before and after healing photos you've ever seen.
		Find out about the miraculous treatment that's saving lives and limbs from infection and gangrene.
		Plus, do you have a root canal?
		Read about the dentist who thinks root canals could be destroying your health.
		Plus, find out who my favorite guest from the last few years is.
		It's not who you may think.
		And of course, there's the evil Mothman.
		See the 9-11 photo that could be the Mothman at the World Trade Center tragedy.
		What an issue this is.
		It's all in the March issue of the After Dark newsletter.
		Call right now, 1-888-727-5505 for only $39.95.
		You get two free issues, 14 for the price of $12.
		The number to subscribe, 1-888-727-5505.
		Or log on to artbell.com.
		Hit the library link to the secure server to order.
		Call now, 1-888-727-5505.
unidentified		If I could turn the page...
		The time that I feel like is the same.
		Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies.
		Tell me lies, tell me, tell me lies.
		Oh no, no, you can't disguise.
		You can't disguise, you can't disguise.
		Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies.
		To recharge belt in the Kingdom of Nye.
		From west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, we're going to perform an experiment here for the next little while.
		And what I want everybody out there to do is to hang up.
		Hang up.
		Stop calling me.
		And only those people who have been to the Enterprise mission site and have been following along with us, you're the only ones I want to call for a little while here.
		And I'll tell you why.
		It's because the Mars pictures that we just got today, indeed, Richard really is right.
		When you go over and you look at what he's got at the Enterprise mission, and if you're used to looking at satellite photography, this really, to me, looks like a city from space, taken from space.
		Looks like Los Angeles might look almost from space.
		Really close, actually.
		And so I would be interested in hearing from those of you who have seen the photographs that we're talking about, and that'll be a service to those who don't have the capability to see these photographs as well.
		If we hear only from those who have seen this photograph over on Enterprise Mission, hopefully you followed from the photographs we got today over to the Enterprise Mission main page and then down to the Phobos II infrared Mars photograph.
		I would like to begin to answer some calls only from those of you that have seen this photograph.
		And I would like your opinion to some of you average folk out there who are able to look at this.
		And you tell me, you tell me what you think we're looking at.
		Are we looking at a city?
		Now, if we're really looking at a city, then in my mind, to go to the face on Mars would not be as profitable as to land right near the city here.
		That's just me.
		If this really is you know, and the geometry here really does look like a city in space or what would be left of a c a city.
		You know, it really does look that way.
		I don't have to use my imagination to see this.
		It's pretty obvious.
		So I would like to dip into the color pool here, but only those that have actually seen this, if you're sitting there looking at it yourself, I think you could tell us whether we're delusional or whether you're seeing the same thing.
		It would be a great service.
		So if everybody who's not calling about that would please, we get to open lines here in a little bit, just hang up and let everybody who is able to see this pick up the phone and call.
		If you would be so kind as to do that for the next little while, we'll run through some calls and we'll see what people who are also seeing this have to say.
		Be right back.
unidentified		When I took him to see Santa, he asked for his brother and his sisters back.
		And I had to explain that Santa Claus can't bring them back.
		They live in heaven now.
		Sarah, Taylor, and Brandy Wiggins were killed by a drunk driver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Friends don't let friends drive drunk.
unidentified		A public service message from the U.S. Department of Transportation and the Ed Council.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, this should be interesting.
		And all I want is people who have actually seen the same photographs we're looking at right now.
		And this will be a service not only to those people, but to all of you out there who are not looking at them so you can sort of get the opinion of the average person.
		I think that's a wise course to take.
		So let's take it.
		Richard, are you there?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I am here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interested, curious what people think?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		First time calling the line, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland and Art Bell.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Thank you, gentlemen.
unidentified		Good to talk to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you able to see these photographs?
unidentified		Yes, I can.
		Okay.
		Looks like absolutely nothing I've seen that's naturally occurring.
		I'll tell you right now, the Phobos pictures really are almost more startling.
		It's amazing that with the technology they had then that, you know, they got that kind of shot, and NASA's giving us what they're getting.
		So I wonder what NASA might really have.
		Yeah.
		The other thought that I had, too, was thinking back to last night's guest, who said, oh, yeah, there was life on Mars, lots of it.
		It was mostly underground.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I mean, anything's possible, but this, have you seen, it looks like a large metropolitan area.
		Appreciate your call, sir.
		It certainly does.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Now, this is literally a hop, skip, and a jump across the hill from the themus image released today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how far from Sidonia?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's probably 600, 800 miles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a long way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's not the same mission.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Let me tell you.
		Yes, it is.
		Let me tell you why I go to Sidonia, all right?
		It's the face.
		The face exists for a reason.
		In the model that this is artificial, the face is telling us this is the place.
		And the reason we're seeing this stunning stuff that looks like L.A. is because we're looking underground.
		The stuff at Sidonia has been sticking above ground, the stuff that we can see on the visible things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, right, right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And so it's beaten and eroded down.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The stuff underground at Sidonia will be as pristine and as preserved as the stuff we're seeing on this data.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoglund and Ark Belhine.
unidentified		Yes.
		Good evening, Ark.
		Good evening, Richard.
		This is John Scottsdale.
		How are you doing?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Hi, John.
unidentified		Oh, boy, I'll tell you.
unidentified		I mean, how many things do you have to have weighing on the side of unnaturalness, if you will?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		John, I have a mission for you.
unidentified		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You're in Scottsdale.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You're just across the hill from Phil Christensen at the University of Arizona.
unidentified		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Get in your car, go down and see him.
		Look him in the eye and say, what the hell is going on when he dies to this level of the American people?
		Can you do that and reflect back?
unidentified		I would love to.
		I'm just delighted.
		As you stated in your book so many times and as you've shown us over the years, so many different things, it's not just one thing.
		It's many things together that add up to the odds of all of this being by itself anomalously natural are just nil.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		They are at this point.
unidentified		Absolutely nil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate that, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not at all.
unidentified		Take care.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, take care.
		All right.
		More opinions.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
		Going once.
		Going twice.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Yeah, I say I must be the only one, but I think this looks to me like aerial photography of an ancient ruin.
unidentified		It doesn't look like a modern place, but it looks like something that you could see great big wide streets in between.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Which images are you looking at?
unidentified		I'm looking, well, as I'm looking at my computer image, I'm looking at the right side.
unidentified		All right, the wider piece.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Now, you're on the Fogo story?
		Yes.
		And I think...
unidentified		Yes.
		Everybody says, you know, it looks like a city.
		Yes, it does, but it looks like an ancient city to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, maybe Rome might have looked like that.
unidentified		I don't know.
unidentified		We've never had Rome from an aerial photography.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's introduce the idea of scale here, okay?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		We're used to seeing cities of a certain scale because most people are five feet, six feet, something like that, right?
unidentified		Right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		If the Martians, our great, great, great, great ancestors in this model, were bigger, I mean significantly bigger, so that instead of having buildings the size of, you know, tenths of a city block, they were the size of a couple miles.
		There is a lot of mythology on Earth regarding both in Genesis and other places.
		The idea of giants from the sky.
unidentified		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		All right?
		Those who were cast down, men of renown, giants of old in Genesis.
		And then in the Greek mythology, we have the myth of the Titans.
unidentified		Right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Big guys.
		My belief is, my model here is that these aren't myths.
		These are history.
		Distorted and warped by an immense amount of time to where church fathers today, if you look them in the eye and say, well, what about those Nephilim, those giants?
		They'll basically blow you off.
		They will not address the question.
		That's the political contingent art that doesn't want to grapple with this data.
		And it's in part the contingent that's funding NASA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what about you, man?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is what you're seeing compelling enough to you that we would mount a very expensive mission to go to Mars?
unidentified		Oh, hell yes.
		You know, I would definitely, I would go to the point where I would have a telethon.
		You know, people want to whip out dollars and tens and fifteens.
		I'm one of those people.
		I would love to see a telethon to go to Mars.
		And you know what?
		They'd have to leave.
		Wait, wait, wait.
		There'd have to be tax hands off it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Madam, hang on a second.
unidentified		Cash hand.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You say you'd go even if it was expensive.
		Art's premise is wrong.
		My dear friend's premise is wrong.
		It's not that expensive.
		That's just in the eyes of those that don't want us to go.
		When you look at what we spend money on in this society, particularly on the weapons, we've got enough money now in George Bush's new budget for defense, $49 billion, to go to Mars five times over.
unidentified		That's right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		If we want to.
unidentified		It's all a matter of what we want to do.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And we Americans have lost control.
		We Americans have lost control.
		I mean, the most astonishing honesty coming out of Washington in the last 40 hours was the revelation of the shadow government.
		You really think that that just was whipped up after September 11th?
unidentified		No, I kind of think they were listening to Art and talking about the shadow people.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Ed Mitchell has talked about the secret government.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Many other people that I deal with, my sources and whatever, talk routinely about those that are really running the show.
unidentified		It is nothing new, exactly.
unidentified		It's surprising.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So it's back to what we really want as citizens to spend our money on that will increase and enhance the human condition.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, Richard, just a quick comment on this.
		Shadow government.
		What idiot thought that went up?
		I mean, anybody who's been on the internet for 10 minutes knows that all the conspiratorial nuts out there.
		Why in God's name would they serve up a name like shadow government?
		Why wouldn't it be emergency interim government?
		Something that people would understand, but God, they call it the shadow government.
		They're idiots.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Who is the bright genius who was obviously a friend of yours and mine in the Pentagon who leaked a story the other day about the Office of Disinformation or whatever they call it?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		In other words, sometimes your friends are the ones that put the names out so that people will see the truth for what it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but I mean, what do they do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go home and watch Men in Black and then decide how to name these things or what?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		No, they listen to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or listen to me.
		Yeah, that's right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard, C. Hoagland, and Art Bell.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, it's me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's you.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
unidentified		This is Ian in Portland, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And looking at that color image to me, you know, it really reminds me of an aerial view of Portland, actually.
		I mean, it's sitting there right below the hills and just above the water level.
		It would look like a water level with all that red stuff.
		And then you look across the opposite side of the river, you know, and there's that little smaller settlement for the folks that feel they've got to live over there.
		And then if you scroll down.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It looks familiar.
unidentified		It does.
		It really does.
		And then that close-up on the lower right, or just to the right of Phobos Thermal IR, I mean that sure looks a lot like building rooftops with their duck reducts and all that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure does.
		All right, caller, thank you.
		We're trying to get a quick kind of survey here.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Richard C. Hogland and Art Bell.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
unidentified		This is Geno from Nashville.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		First time tried to get in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you're in.
unidentified		And it's an honor talking to both of you.
unidentified		And yes, this stuff's definitely like an ancient city buried under dust and whatever, you know, being sitting there for eons just waiting for somebody to discover it again.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Now, Art, we've taken, what, five random calls?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, at least.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And five people see it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Five people see it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I hear it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		How come NASA is?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know, Richard.
		I don't know.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Richard, C. O. Glenn and Art Bell.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		From Providence.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Providence, Rhode Island?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you seeing these photos?
unidentified		Absolutely.
		And, Richard, it's a pleasure to talk to you, by the way.
		Thank you.
		I used to work in a print shop, and we used to have guys come in from the state of Rhode Island to reproduce aerial maps of the state when they would build a highway.
		And that's exactly what they look like.
		That's exactly what they look like.
		A very kind of grainy black and white.
		You can see the definition.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Six for six.
unidentified		It's amazing.
unidentified		It's exactly what it looks like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Colin.
unidentified		Yep, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland and Art Bell.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, I'm calling from Kansas, and I listened to KSTP.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And when I looked at that picture, it's like, wow, it just hits you right in the face.
		I mean, there's no question.
		You just go, damn, that looks real.
		It just.
		Oh, it is real.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		To a pedigree.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It's where it came from.
unidentified		I mean, when you look at it, I mean, you know, it's just remarkable.
		It's incredible.
		And, you know, the first thing that hits you in your mind is how long has the government known about this?
		And it's just like they've been speed fooding us the whole time, just holding everything back until a certain time or something.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Sir, this is exactly what I was trying to get across to my dear friend on the other end of this phone line.
		He asked me earlier in the evening why NASA would do this today.
		Downpedal, basically say nothing, and just put out the pictures and the data.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm still asking that.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Because that's the methodology.
		We are being spoon-fed.
		We are being conditioned.
		It's like you turn the water up a little bit, a little bit, a little bit, and you test and you test and you test.
		Because remember, Brookings scared some of the mainstream folks to death.
		It said we would all go crazy if we found out we weren't alone.
		If we found out the Nephilim came from Mars, that the men of renown in the Bible were actually from another planet and not angels, there are a lot of people that would be a tad unhappy at that.
unidentified		How long do you think the American government has known about it and kept it secret?
unidentified		I mean, is it like for decades?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I think since the Eisenhower administration.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I have quotes from the science advisor to Dwight Eisenhower, Dr. S. Fred Singer, regarding Phobos as a huge artificial moon placed in orbit around Mars by ancient races of Martians.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Richard, for how long now have I been telling you that I think Brookings is as relevant today as it was the day it was done?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long have I been saying that?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Segregation also was the law of the land, and we broke free of that set of chains.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		How long are we going to let this mindset keep us, not just in the 20th century, but back in the 16th century?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you're right, then I'm right that it's still as alive today as it was then.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And as a body politic, remember now we're seven for seven.
		I like the tetrahedral numbers part of this.
		Everybody who called in, who could get in tonight, looked at this data, see what we see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How come West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yes, this is Joe from Mountain View.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you see these photos?
unidentified		Yes, I'm a former archaeologist, and I used to do aerial photography surveys on ancient cities in the American Southwest.
unidentified		And this looks like a Pueblo to me.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Doesn't the stuff that Christensen put out today, the FEMAS data, look like Pueblo Benito at Traco Canyon?
unidentified		Yeah, it sure does.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's just eerie, eerie.
unidentified		It even looks like the landslide knocked down some buildings or something in the corner.
unidentified		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, appreciate the call.
		First time caller line.
		You're on the air with Richard Seehoglin and Art Bell.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've seen these photos, too?
unidentified		Yes, I have.
		I'm looking at them right now.
		This is Sean from Tulsa.
		Yes.
		And they're remarkable.
		I mean, there's no way that I think these could have been formed naturally.
		I want to make note of the IR photos, infrared photos.
		Yes.
		Bottom one, right at the bottom with last arrow.
		Notice the elliptical loop down there at the bottom.
		No one's mentioned that yet.
		And I just don't see how that perfect ellipse, if you see what I'm talking about, can be formed naturally.
		I mean, obviously something's there.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The question is, how do we force this government to be honest with us about it?
unidentified		I don't know.
		I wish they'd wake up because I think it's time to go to something.
		It's obviously that something's there.
		And the fact that some people crush their religious thinking and whatnot shouldn't be a deterrent for us not to do that.
		We just need to set that aside and get on with progress because it's just stalled.
		Our space program and everything.
		We just need to get out there and do something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Carler.
		Got it.
		One more quickly.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoglund and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hello.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you seeing these photographs?
unidentified		Yes, Art, I am.
		And it's just blowing me away.
		That's all I can say.
		Anyway, this is Fred in here in Napa Valley, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And, I mean, I grew up in a, you know, Judeo-Christian household.
		And this is just proving to me what I always knew with a gut feeling that, you know, what we've always been told, it only scratches the surface.
		And there's a lot that, you know, we just have no idea what's going on.
		And this is just the beginning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I don't know.
		That's about, thank you.
		It's about 10 calls or some, 12, whatever.
		There you go, Richard.
		They all agree.
		Listen, my friend, is there anything very quickly you want to get on?
		I'm going to break to open lines here pretty quickly, but that was a hell of a test.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
		And we'll do more later when we have more time to discuss the politics of this, because we can't just let this stand.
		I mean, we've got to do something.
		Since 12 people out of 12 people see what's there, and an agency we're paying $15 billion of our money doesn't see what's there, there's something rotten in not Denmark, but right here at home.
		We've got to change it.
		We have to change this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard, I think you've done very well tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you so much.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, my friend, and you'll get a script.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, the script!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want the script, Richard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll talk to you soon.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bye.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Good night, Art.
unidentified		Strawberries, cherries, and an angel's kiss in spring.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Open line straight ahead.
unidentified		My summer wine is really made from all these things.
		I walked in the town of Silver's bird that jingled to a song that I had on this thing to just a few.
		She saw my silvers burst and said let's pass some time.
		And I...
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time colourline, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm alright.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old are you?
unidentified		Um, 13.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		13.
		Since you've gone through, you can make a prediction for 2002.
		Something you think might happen or will happen.
		Or I will even accept what you would like to happen.
unidentified		I'll get a really high allowance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like how big?
unidentified		$50 each week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		$50 a week?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I do so much around here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, what do you presently get?
unidentified		$25.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you don't want much then?
		You want a 10 times boost in your allowance.
		What would you be willing to do for that?
unidentified		Do laundry, do the dishes, clean the living room, my brothers and sisters' bedroom.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty heavy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell your parents Art said 10 times.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See you later.
		I would look for lightning to strike before you get it, but you can ask.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Are you going to speak?
unidentified		Art?
		Yes.
		This is Deborah in Missoula, Montana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you doing?
unidentified		Very good.
unidentified		And I am a satanic feminist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A satanic feminist.
unidentified		Yes, that's correct.
		We trace our lineage back to Eve.
		We believe that Eve was the first satanic feminist.
		I mean, she starts out as a simple country girl tending a garden.
		Along comes the friendly garden snake who enlightens her.
		And when the omnipotent god of Adam asked who gave him the fruit of the tree of knowledge, Adam did not hesitate to rat Eve out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he said, it's obvious that it was her.
unidentified		He would have said that the snake gave him the fruit of the tree of knowledge.
unidentified		He didn't have to immediately rat Eve out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying it's for real, huh?
unidentified		Well, of course it's for real.
unidentified		Why would I want to lie about something like this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because you're satanic.
unidentified		That's right.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The satanic feminist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, there's a lot of people who say, well, they're all satanic.
unidentified		She's just the devil woman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coast to coast A.M. with Art Bell.
unidentified		Anyone for a dentist?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Easter the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi, Art.
		I'd like to thank you for your show.
unidentified		It's kept me going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do chronic bridge work.
unidentified		I own a Crown of Bridge dental laboratory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
unidentified		And there are many, many crowns with a little Art Bell twist on them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you serious?
unidentified		Yeah, I weave little A's and B's into the anatomy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there are people walking around with my initials in their anatomy, in their crown of bridge, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many of these things do you?
unidentified		Oh, I've done thousands.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the best yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I appreciate it, sir.
unidentified		All right, thanks, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
unidentified		Oh, my God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So my mark is in your mouth.
unidentified		Thousands of mouths.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Every time you chomp down on a quarter-pounder, you're doing it with my initials.
		The March issue of the After Dark newsletter is like nothing you've ever seen.
		We've included images of some of the most dramatic before and after healing photos you've ever seen.
		Find out about the miraculous treatment that's saving lives and limbs from infection and gangrene.
		Plus, do you have a root canal?
		Read about the dentist who thinks root canals could be destroying your health.
		Plus, find out who my favorite guest from the last few years is.
		It's not who you may think.
		And of course, there's the evil Mothman.
		See the 9-11 photo that could be the Mothman at the World Trade Center tragedy.
		What an issue this is.
		It's all in the March issue of the After Dark newsletter.
		Call right now, 1-888-727-5505 for only $39.95.
		You get two free issues, 14 for the price of 12.
		The number to subscribe, 1-888-727-5505.
		Or log on rbell.com and hit the library link to the secure server to order.
		Call now, 1-888-727-5505.
unidentified		All our times have come.
		We're fucked down and gone.
		Seasons don't feel the reaper.
		No, do the wind, the sun, and the rain.
		We could be like this.
		Come on, baby, don't feel the reaper.
		Baby, take my hand.
		Don't feel the reaper.
		We'll be able to fly.
		Don't feel the reaper.
		Baby, I'm the man.
		La, la, la, la, la, la, la.
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from Western.
		of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that certainly was an interesting Little random test, wasn't it?
		Of those who had seen the photographs.
		So that may encourage you.
		They're on Richard Hoagland's main site, the Phobos photographs.
		The new ones are on my site under Richard's name.
		And then the older Phobos photographs from a greater distance are on Richard's site, that new old Phobos photograph.
		So pretty incredible stuff.
		There's no two ways about it.
		And as you heard, 10 or 12 people heard it and saw it exactly the same way.
		The question is, what do we do about it?
		And do we really break free of this Brookings thing that says that we'll go fairly berserk if we find out it's not all the way we thought it was?
unidentified		We'll be right back.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Machine is $99.95.
		It's a runaway hit.
		I mean, it's running away.
		We're going to be out of them very soon.
		If you want one before they're gone and gone, they will be shortly.
		Call the Sequane Company in the morning at 1-800-522-8863.
		That's 1-800-522-8863 or on the web, of course, at ccradio.com.
		CCRadio.com.
		Well, the market finally had a really good day on Friday.
		And it's about time.
		But what does the future hold?
		It's really hard to say.
		We may be coming out of the recession.
		We may languish in it for a while longer.
		Really hard to say.
		But it doesn't matter.
		When there's volatility, and it was up, what, 260 plus points down?
		When there's a lot of volatility, you want to have a balanced portfolio.
		And that's what gold does for you.
		It gives you balance.
		Market down, gold up.
		And so you don't have all your eggs sequestered in one basket.
		Did you know some gold investments went up over 30% last year?
		That's right.
		If your broker hasn't told you about gold, well, Lear Financial sure will.
		You might ask your broker why Forbes and Financial Times and even Merrill Lynch, those should be names you know, are all reporting big money is moving into gold.
		In 2001, gold funds were up over 30%.
unidentified		Physical gold, 12%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This year looks like about 20%, according to the experts.
		So call Lear Financial.
		They will send you information, and you can read about it and save your savings.
		The number is 1-800-474-4259.
		That's 1-800-474-4259.
		So if you've got savings and retirement hopes, you're going to want to read this carefully.
		Well, all right, open lines for the balance of the show.
		There is so very much to talk about.
		We've got this shadow government thing.
		You know, what kind of idiots, or should I even ask that?
		I mean, why would they call it, why in God's name, the shadow government?
		Five minutes on the internet, and they would know.
		It's like George Bush coming out and talking about one world ism, one world governments, one world this and that, and now shadow government.
		Couldn't they have picked a better name?
		No, it's got to be the shadow government.
		So we've got that.
		We've got an entire wild week that we've had here on the air that we can talk about.
		Any of the subjects from chemtrails outward to the terrible rash that nobody can figure out that they're understating.
		They're very good at understating things, and they're understating this rash stupendously.
		It's virtually everywhere, as far as I can see.
		Adults as well as children.
		So something's going on here.
		You know, I know nobody has really said this yet.
		Maybe I shouldn't say it either.
		You know, so I'm not going to say this.
		We'll just leave it as a mystery rash for now.
		All right?
		Certainly worthy of some discussion.
		So many things going on, and now we've got Mars on top of all that.
		So anything you want to do between now and the end of the program, it's all yours.
		First time caller line, you're Ani or hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		this is a fantastic show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		You know, first of all, I got two things.
unidentified		I'm going to hurry up and get off the line and let other people call in, but let's talk about rashes right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Me and my wife are both in our mid-40s.
		We're both healthy, never really had any major illnesses, but we are just, we're covered with this rash.
		I mean, we have not changed soap.
		I mean, we have done nothing different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		I'm getting thousands of emails.
		You know, the government right now is not telling us the totality of what they know because I just know that because of what I know, I'm getting thousands of emails from all over the country.
unidentified		I heard you talking about rashes on your show.
		And from what I remember, it was a back east caller, and I never connected to what was happening until me and my wife really got to talking about it.
		And a lot of times I'm sleeping, getting ready to go to work.
		I can't listen to the complete show, but it's just anything we use.
		There's no lotion out there that will get rid of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did this come on?
unidentified		It's just, you know, it's been an ongoing thing for two months.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm asking how it began.
unidentified		How it began is just, we thought because, you know, we just was there.
		I mean, it didn't begin.
		It was gone.
		I mean, it was never there.
		And then it was there.
		I mean, there was no beginning to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was there one little spot that began to itch or did you?
unidentified		Well, it just felt like, you know, like I kept my electric blanket on maybe a little bit too high, and it's just like a dry area.
		Now it's, you know, my whole back, down the side of my leg.
		I mean, you know, it's not painful.
		It doesn't itch.
		It doesn't irritate.
		It's just there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For a lot of people, it itches terribly, sir.
		That's what I'm getting in emails anyway.
		Look, I don't know what to say about this, except that it is far wider than they're saying.
		It's affected many more people than they are admitting.
		And everything beyond that is speculation.
		Some of it could be pretty dark, too.
		And I almost did that.
		I'm not going to do it.
		We don't know anything more about it yet other than it is a rash and it is widespread, much more so than they are saying.
		The CDC, of course, has said that they see no commonality thus far, and they always look for that in any new problem.
		They look for common denominators, and the CDC has not found one yet.
		I don't know.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there, Art.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Man, I'm looking at these pictures, too, and it's incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
unidentified		And the fact that you could maybe look at what we have one set of parallel lines and say, okay, but you've got parallel lines all over the place going horizontally and vertically.
		I agree.
		And even to the point where you can see large courtyards in the middle of buildings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it would appear.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I know.
unidentified		And it's funny how these announcements seem to be coming out in bunches, like there was the one the other week about Earth's rotation slowing down because of CO2 emissions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		Shadow government, which I had to laugh at as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where did they come up with that name?
unidentified		I'm not sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of idiots are we raising back there or electing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, five minutes, and they'd know that would be the dumbest thing they could call it.
unidentified		You'd think they would have to be aware of that, but apparently not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What, did they send it to the Ollie North Naming Department or something?
unidentified		Sheesh.
		Yeah, it's incredible.
		And the new face on Mars, which you had on your show a couple weeks ago as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The New World Order.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's right in line with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The New World Order.
unidentified		Maybe it's just that the Forces at B are afraid of spurring some kind of Neo-Luddite movement or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All run by shadow people.
unidentified		Yeah, it seems.
unidentified		Because any of the science fiction I've ever read goes into how Neoluddites are going to be the threat of the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somehow I picture Dick Cheney sitting behind this giant oak desk with an American flag and the presidential seal about 500 feet down below the ground, you know?
unidentified		That would be different, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's probably not all that far from reality either.
		So, yeah, the government's got to be prudent, of course, and they've got to take steps to see to it there is a continuation of government, but I thought that would mean a continuation of the constitutional form of government that we have come to so love and cherish.
		That government to which we have become so accustomed.
		Bitch about it as we do.
		It's the one that works with the checks and counter-checks and the guys and gals on the Supreme Court and all those senators and troublesome congressional people and then the executive branch.
		And that's kind of the way we've always thought of it.
		It doesn't seem the way this is, the shadow government.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		As you were just saying, with our government, and how Richard put it so bluntly, the whole politics of the situation boils down to religion.
unidentified		And our Constitution is based upon the religion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're still around the world every day now killing each other because of religion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everybody kills the name of their God, right?
unidentified		As has been for thousands of years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They killed us in the name of their God.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we kill them in the name of our God.
unidentified		And it goes on and on and back and forth.
		But this is why they won't release the information to us.
		Because just as September 11th affected our economy, if they would release this information to us, it would have such a tremendous effect on our economy and our lives and our governments themselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I do agree.
		I really do agree.
		The governments are absolutely, inextricably tied up with Religion.
		And so the disruption in the religious base, and it would be massive, would disrupt governments.
		It would be chaotic.
		And I think that's what Brookings figured out.
		And I still think that's as true today as it was then.
unidentified		Exactly.
		Exactly.
		And it would lead to utter chaos.
		And without the ability for the governments to control, either through fear of religion or laws or penalties or whatever they do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, religion itself is a kind of control, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's been called flippantly the opiate for the masses and lots of other things, but it's a kind of control, right?
unidentified		Personally, I believe that religion was, you know, if you look back to ancient times, religion was even to the Mayas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Always the controlling.
unidentified		Exactly.
unidentified		It's the fear of death, the unknowing of the afterlife.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Agreed.
unidentified		Supposedly, and those who were in power by uses of subtle magic back in the ancient days or whatever were priests.
		And they were the religious leaders, and it's just carried on, so forth and so forth.
		And since not too many of us have near-death experiences, but then we could even be conditioned to that and our own beliefs, the near-death experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think in order to suddenly accept something of this magnitude, there would have to be a worldwide spiritual renaissance of some incredible magnitude.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Otherwise, there'd be no acceptance of this.
unidentified		There'd be utter chaos.
		It would take God himself to come down and say, hey, look, I'm real.
		I'm here.
		And this is the religion, period.
		This is my way.
		And it would take that being to zap millions of his opponents, Lucifer, in order for this all to come about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if God came down now, the masses would regard God as the Antichrist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would be willing to bet you large amounts of money on that.
unidentified		I agree entirely.
unidentified		I would be the skeptic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do, huh?
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and even I wouldn't be sure.
		How would we know?
		I mean, the Antichrist is supposed to come and solve, seemingly solve all of our problems and lift us out of the day-to-day drudgery of the world and to, you know, all those promises.
unidentified		And exactly what it preaches, if God were to come down and show us the things and solve all of our problems, just like you're saying, none of us would believe it because we're so wrapped up in the religious rhetoric that none of us would accept it as being.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think we'd do the modern equivalent of another crucifixion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate the call, sir.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, and take care.
		So really, that says Brookings probably is right.
		And that would account for why we're not being told or why this is being downplayed.
		Now, ask yourselves, can you depend on a pool of reporters to ask the right questions?
		Is the answer.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, Art, how's it going?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's going pretty well, actually.
unidentified		This is Jesse in Jacksonville.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Been listening to you for about nine years.
		I just wanted to say about the chemtrails.
		I live right under a major flight path.
		About a week ago today, the weather changed about six times from total cloud over pouring down rain to clear blue skies or black skies in about a period of half an hour.
		And I just thought that was really strange.
		Also with these kids with the rashes showing up all over, we have some kids in our local town that have it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, not just kids, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where did you say you were again?
unidentified		I'm in Jacksonville, just outside of Metford.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, up in Oregon?
		Yeah.
		Okay.
		Right.
		There are schools closed up there, I believe, aren't there?
		Yeah.
		It's not just schools, though.
		I'm telling you, I'm getting thousands of emails.
		Somehow, the CDC or somebody is behind the information curve on this one, or intentionally so, because it's everywhere.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I was having a theory on that.
		Maybe it's an antidote, almost like an antivirus for kids that are about to receive something, or, you know, adults.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought of that myself, that they might know of some sort of attack that was going to take place.
unidentified		A vaccination.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And be vaccinating people.
		Could be.
		Any of these things could be true.
		All right, sir.
		I appreciate the call.
		Thank you.
		Yeah, of course it could be true.
		No way of knowing.
		Could be something the shadow government thought up.
		Shadow government.
		I just, you know, it's beyond all reason that they would have come up with that name.
		Anybody trying to think of a name that would be palatable for public consumption and who had spent even five nerdy minutes on the internet reading some of the conspiracy theory stuff that's going on, the shadow government is the very last thing they would have called it.
		The very last thing.
		There could have been 10 million names before they would come up with the shadow government.
		That's what they came up with.
		First time caller online, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		Yes, first time I've ever called.
		Well, it's great.
		Look, I want to suggest a guest for you that would really be a good thing for you.
		He's an anti-drug prohibition lawyer, Joseph McNamara.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		You know who he is?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've heard the name, yes, of course.
unidentified		He's a former police chief and a real brain.
unidentified		He's got a Ph.D. and stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Anyway, he's really, really cool.
		He's got one of one of the people that wrote an essay in W.F. Buckley Jr.'s Symposium he had on was that when Buckley did his flip?
		Did his symposium on drug legalization?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that was when Buckley roughly did his flip, right?
unidentified		Did his what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		His flip on drugs.
unidentified		Yeah, he went pro-legalized.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, yes.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I would be more than happy to have him on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you can supply me by email with any information that puts me on his own.
unidentified		I don't have a computer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
unidentified		But you'd probably have more luck finding out how to get a hold of him than I could.
unidentified		I wouldn't know how, but.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I'll see what my producers can come up with.
		Thank you very much.
		Willing to consider any guest, just about.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
		You know, you've got to remember that this whole talk about the Brookings Institute, you know, that's all speculation in theory.
		I mean, we really don't know why they would withhold this information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we do.
		It's not speculation.
		It's in the Brookings report, which you can read.
unidentified		Well, right.
		Okay, but remember, we're speculating as to that's the reason why.
		Think about it.
		They withhold information about the UFO phenomenon.
		They play that down.
		They've also played down things as mild as the accomplishments of the guy that built the Coral Castle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, look, give me an alternative theory that is as compelling to withhold that kind of information.
unidentified		Now, let's say, okay, the accomplishment of the guy that built the Coral Castle was quite phenomenal, yet very few people even know that that happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's say that a lot of these discoveries...
		Stay with the big picture.
		Give me something else.
unidentified		Let's say that some of these discoveries led to an open knowledge of giving people the ability to do similar things, like, you know, build their own pyramids.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah.
unidentified		Now, the government would fear common, average, everyday people with those kind of abilities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They certainly would.
unidentified		So you would play down that to keep the knowledge out of their hands.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'll buy that as a motive.
		Okay, if that were true, yes, that would be a sufficient motive, I would think.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		I've been drifting on the sea of harvest.
		Trying to get myself ashore for so long.
		For so long.
		Listen to the stranger story.
		Wondering where it all went wrong for so long.
		For so long.
		But hold on, hold on, hold on to what you got.
		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The After Dark newsletter has been reporting subjects that we talk about right here on the show.
		And just like the show, After Dark has been evolving and changing and keeping folks guessing.
		You never know what you're going to get next, but it's always a lot of fun.
		Give yourself a treat and subscribe.
		Just log onto my website, artbell.com.
		Go to the library link on the left.
		You'll find the After Dark link in the menu there.
		Click and you can subscribe on the Secure Server.
		Or call any time of the day or night, toll-free.
		1-888-727-5505.
		That's 1-888-727-5505 for only $39.95.
		You'll receive this four-color magazine every month for a year.
		Subscribe right now, and you'll get two free issues, $14 for the price of $12.
		Subscribe online at artbell.com or call right now, 1-888-727-5505.
		That's 1-888-727-5505.
unidentified		This is the camp.
		This is the real thing now.
		You've never done anything so hard in your life.
		You don't understand how you can finish.
		It takes inner strength and desire to become a Marine.
		When I finished, I was like, I did it.
		The moment I will never forget is when this drill instructor that I admire so much comes up to me and said, I'm Marine Marine.
		PFC Summer Volkman became a United States Marine.
		Can you call 1-800 Marines?
		Hi, this is Kayla.
		I'd like to tell you about the shadow people I've seen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've seen them?
unidentified		Yes.
		I looked over to the hallway, the entry to the hallway, and I saw these figures standing there.
		I mean, they were shadows, like black shadows of figures of people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, yes.
		You looked at them.
		Was there any sign that they knew you were seeing them?
unidentified		I got up and I went in my grandma's room and I could not sleep there anymore.
		I got up and I could not sleep there anymore.
		USA Radio Network News, I'm L.P. Phillips.
		They flew to repair the Hubble telescope, but now the Space Shuttle Columbia's mission is under the microscope.
		Columbia will stay in space for at least another 24 hours after mission control engineers notice a problem with the cooling system shortly after takeoff.
		Shuttle program manager Ron Dittmore says the problem is a freon launch.
		According to our flight rules, we look at this degradation as being near our limits where we would decide whether we continue to fly the flight for the full mission or not.
		Dittmore says the shuttle would be able to find a way to finish the whole mission, but a final decision won't be made until this afternoon.
		We may just be learning about it, but evidently the Pentagon is claiming the idea of a shadow government is nothing new at all.
		Its operations are appropriate after the events of September 11th.
		Spokeswoman Victoria Clark says such government backup systems have been around for decades.
		It is absolute common sense.
		It is absolutely appropriate that the government should have all the parts and all the pieces in place.
		So in case of a crisis, in case of an emergency, the government can and will continue to function.
		This has been in place for years, for decades, I think probably since the earliest days of the Cold War.
		So that's been in place for some time, and everyone in the government is doing what's absolutely appropriate.
		A videotape showing a gaunt Andrea Yates explaining why she drowned her five children gave the first visual proof of her mental illness to a Houston jury.
		This is USA Radio News.
		Is your hair thin?
		Well, mine is, and I'll bet you hate yours as much as I hate mine.
		The less hair we have, the older we look.
		I decided I wasn't going to take it anymore, but I didn't want to spend thousands on transplants or weaves, and I didn't want the side effects and expense of prescription drugs.
		Then I heard this commercial for Avacor, and I realized they had found the root of hair loss problems.
		The problem is DHT, a bad body chemical that's the culprit in most hair loss.
		Liquid Avacor deep cleans the scalp, and Avacor's all-natural DHT blocker keeps the DHT from the hair follicles.
		I saw results in a few weeks.
		Avacor is safe for men and women, has no side effects, is effective for virtually everyone.
		So do what thousands of others have done.
		Call toll-free.
		Get your Avacor risk-free trial now.
		1-800-547-2708.
		1-800-547-2708.
		Grow your hair back today.
		1-800-547-2708.
		Call now.
		The Pentagon says the Taliban and Al-Qaeda troops are gathering in Afghanistan to possibly mount another effort against the U.S. troops, as we hear in this report from USA's John Decker.
		The Pentagon is gathering intelligence on pockets of hundreds of suspected al-Qaeda and Taliban fighters regrouping near the city of Gardez in eastern Afghanistan.
		The Pentagon said no action has been taken yet, but it could be a focus of upcoming operations in the mountainous area near Pakistan.
		It would be up to Army General Tommy Franks, the head of the U.S. Central Command with responsibility for the war, to decide if and when to move against the Pocket.
		John Decker, USA Radio News, Washington.
		Linda Tripp, the woman who brought us Monica Lewinsky, now has a new problem of her own.
		The former Pentagon worker has breast cancer.
		She made the revelation through her lawyers who say she is showing great courage and good dignity and is encouraging people to pray for her.
		This is USA Radio News.
		Do you know if you qualify for the Earned Income Tax Credit?
		Well, if you have kids, you should find out because it's for people who earn around $32,000 or less, have kids, and meet some of the rules.
		If you qualify, you could pay less tax, no tax, or even get a refund.
		To find out if you qualify, visit the IRS website at www.irs.gov or ask your tax preparer about it.
		A message from the Internal Revenue Service, working to put service first.
		Packages containing caustic sodium hydroxide were reportedly mailed to government officials in England, including Prime Minister Tony Blair.
		Blair is currently out of the country in Australia.
		Stocks ended the day much higher Friday.
		The Dow Jones Industrial Average rallied up 262 points to close at 10,368.
		S ⁇ P 500 NASDAQ also closing higher.
		A Pasadena Maryland man may have caught a falling star.
		While starting his van Saturday night, he noticed something strange in the sky, so Dale Pierce went behind a mall where he found a soda can-sized projectile that left a three-foot blue, green, and red trail.
		It was pockmarked, pear-shaped, and no bigger than the palm of his hand.
		He's turned it over to the Smithsonian Institution for Identification.
		It may be the fifth meteorite ever found in Maryland and the first in more than 80 years.
		From the USA Radio Network, I'm L.P. Phillips.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The March issue of After Dark is not for the faint of heart.
		If you're the least bit squeamish, when the March issue comes in the mail, you might think twice about reading it.
		Not only are there scary articles about the legendary Mothman creature and the dangers of root canals, but there are pictures that very well may gross you out.
		See for yourself the revolutionary last-ditch treatment that's saving limbs from infection and gangrene when surgery and antibiotics have failed.
		It's not pretty, but it's great reading.
		And it's all in the strange medicine issue of the After Dark newsletter.
		It's a good time to get on board and subscribe.
		Call right now, 1-888-727-5505, and you'll get 14 issues for the price of 12.
		That's too free.
		Free.
		The number once again, 1-888-727-5505.
		Or subscribe online at Arkbell.com.
		Just hit the library link to the secure server to order the one and only After Dark newsletter.
unidentified		Music
		I've had nothing but bad love since the day I saw the cat night go.
		So I came into you, sweet lady.
		Dancing in your mystical call.
		Crystal ball on the table, showing my future the best.
		Sing at what we knew was a speech Reachart bell in the Kingdom of Nye.
		From west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with our bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
unidentified		Anybody want a sneak peek at next week?
unidentified		All right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's take a quick look at what's going to happen next week.
		Monday, we're going to have Stanton Friedman on, and we're going to have Stanton on because Of a couple of things.
		One, all of the sightings in Ohio.
		Stanton will have a comprehensive report on what went on in Ohio.
		Also, you may have heard the 40% increase across Canada, that's Stanton's country up there, of UFO sightings.
		That's really strange stuff.
		So that'll be Monday.
		Tuesday, Jose Escamilia is going to be here.
		And I keep having Jose back.
		He's got more proof.
		He has proof of beings that are living, coexisting in our airspace with us.
		He's got really solid proof of that.
		Video proof, photographic proof, proof coming out our ears that we have beings inhabiting the world right around us.
		Then Wednesday, we're going to have on Dr. Stephen Greer in the first hour, followed by Major Ed Dames in the second hour.
		I spoke briefly with the Major earlier today, and I don't want to go into what he said.
		Thursday, we're going to have Column Cullagher here in the first hour.
		The next hour, Joyce Hawkes, who had an NDE that you're just not going to believe.
		So that was a little sneak peek at what's coming up next week on Coast.
		Stay right where you are.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		where did the Go in at 9 in the morning instead of 6.30 on Saturdays, and then quit around 5.
		You can order, though, you can call them during that time period at 1-800-522-8863.
		1-800-800-522-8863.
		If you want to see it on the web or order it on the web, ccradio.com is the URL.
		ccradio.com.
		Now, Priceline.
		Priceline for me is one of the easiest ads I've ever done because my wife and I exclusively use Priceline.
		And believe me, we tried everything.
		I mean, we've taken trips all over the world, all over the US and then all over the world, flying to Asia, flying to Africa, flying to Europe, flying to Russia.
		I mean, we've been all over the place.
		And my wife has done wondrous things with Priceline.
		I almost, I didn't believe it.
		I mean, with Priceline, you go on, you know, you plan your trip, and by that I mean the airline you're going to take and when you're going to come, when you're going to go.
		You rent a car if you want, you get a hotel.
		And all of this, you can submit to Priceline.
		And you name your own price.
		You actually name your own price.
		And I recommend you take a pretty good low shop to begin with, you know, and they might turn you down.
		I mean, you get email within the hour.
		You fill it out.
		They'll send an email back.
		You're accepted or you're rejected.
		Can't do it.
		And at least half the time, when we have submitted what we consider to be a ridiculously low price, they came back and accepted.
		And that's how we did our travel.
		Priceline.com is the only way to go.
		Go ahead.
		Shop around.
		That's what they say.
		Go to the other places, the other online places or travel agencies or whatever.
		And then before you do your buy, go to priceline.com.
		Name a price that's lower than the lowest one you got.
		And my bet is you'll be on your way for a lot less, up to 40% off with Priceline.com.
		That's a lot of money.
		All right, back to open lines for the remaining part of this hour.
		Anything you want to talk about is absolutely fair game.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, how are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am okay.
unidentified		Good.
		Well, I have not read the Brookings report on the web.
		I guess that's where one can, because I don't have a computer.
		So do I understand correctly that you've been saying that their conclusion is that people would be rioting in the streets because of for religious reasons?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if, yes, basically, that's a pretty crude way of putting it, but that's basically right, that religious Groups would not be able to adjust easily at all to such news.
		That in fact, that scientists themselves would be perhaps the biggest group upset, that all of their paradigms would crumble around them, that everything we thought about ourselves that was true is not necessarily true.
		It would be a pretty big upset, man.
unidentified		See, what I'm wondering, as far as the religious part of it is concerned, I can see other reasons for there being rioting in the streets, which maybe I could explain in a minute.
		But what I was thinking was that we're only one country in the world.
		This is something that would concern the entire world.
		Absolutely.
		We are unusually religious in this country.
		Our religiosity is looked at sort of askance by many of the most civilized countries.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that may be true.
unidentified		Yeah, and you know, recently I heard a report on the radio, and they mentioned the percentage that about 7% of people in France and England claim to be religious.
		And even in the Catholic countries, people are not as religious or don't claim to be either believers or churchgoers as much as people in this country do.
		We have more in common with the Islamic fundamentalists if what we say is to be believed.
		But, you know, I really think that the actual number of people in this country who are very religious is really much smaller.
		And the fundamentalists, who would be the people who would be really upset, are a very small number of people who happen to be in power to some degree right now.
		The thing I'm really worried about is that, you know, Cheney, what he's been up to.
		And, you know, if he's got the National Guard and if he's got the militia guys in Montana and Wyoming, you know, brought into the fold, you know, he's told the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I doubt that.
unidentified		Well, okay, but then...
unidentified		Well, but I am worried about, and in fact, this would even give a raison d'être for why they've been creating this sort of totalitarian framework because they fear what might happen when, you know, if and when things get out, if there are things to get out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you believe they called it the shadow government?
unidentified		Was that a good question?
		But you know, the thing is, all right, I kind of think that we don't have to fear anarchy as much as people do.
		And I think that if you talk to the average person, except for the people who were full of bloodlust.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'd like to put you on the phone with J.C. for about a half an hour.
unidentified		Oh, well, do you think he's the average person?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, I mean, but remember now, my dear, revolutions have been accomplished with very small percentages of very fired-up people.
unidentified		Well, of course, this is a different day in terms of weapons, but of course it is true that the average person doesn't walk around with a gun.
unidentified		And actually, although I am for...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is America.
		I'm not sure that's true either.
		Listen, I appreciate the call.
unidentified		But shadow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Shadow camera.
		Hey, you know what we need?
		We need a shadow seal.
		I know some really good graphic artists out there.
		Why don't some of you turn out a good United States shadow government seal?
		It wouldn't be like the one you see presently.
		Of course.
		It would be but a shadow of that.
		And I don't know what it would say on it.
		I have no idea what it would say.
		The director of the United States of the United States wouldn't be president exactly because it wouldn't be an election as we know it, right?
		So we'd have to have a different kind of seal for a shadow government.
		Somehow I picture Dick Cheney sitting behind this great seal of the shadow government, whatever in the hell that is.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, good morning.
unidentified		Yeah, this is Jim Culling from Michigan, listening to you out of Windsor, Ontario.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Hey, listen, I have two questions on Mars, but first I'd like to say that on the religious reaction to the findings on Mars, it would seem everybody says omnipotent describing God, but then they try to limit his creative imaginings.
		So my first question is, with looking at the photographs, the wide spectrum of scans they have available, thinking about George Sr. and George Jr., both men in the oil, fuel, and energy industries, I was wondering if there's ever been any readings or possible suggestions of energy, an energy source on the surface of Mars.
		And my other question...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They've got to open up Sidonia wars.
unidentified		That's what I was thinking.
		Go for profit.
		But my other question was, has anyone ever speculated that instead of Martians coming to Earth, that Atlanteans may have gone to the moon, staged from there to Mars?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, could be.
		I never thought about that, but it could be.
		The Atlanteans may have had powers that we will not know about until we get to the Hall of Records.
unidentified		Well, I've always thought that was kind of a Jules Vernian approach.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Good as any.
		Appreciate it, sir.
		Thank you.
		Sure, as good as any.
		What the heck?
		As long as we're speculating, none of us really know anything for sure.
unidentified		There sure are a lot of questions these days, aren't there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About who we are, where we came from, what came before, whether everything we were taught in school and Sunday school and all that is true or not.
		There's an awful lot up in the air tonight.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		Hello.
		I wanted to add a postscript to a phone call from a lady a few months back when the topic was possession by evil spirits.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		She had reported that a former husband of hers, while intoxicated, had eyes, pupils that were red.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I remember that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I remember.
unidentified		As incredible as that seemed, I wanted to say that I had witnessed that same phenomenon.
		And to that, I would add that the person's muscles on the face were so distorted that his visage, his face, didn't even resemble his.
		And there was absolutely no response to his name.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was this your husband?
unidentified		This was a former boyfriend of mine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For yeah, sure, former.
unidentified		And it was while he was in what they call a blackout state.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		But the red eyes, the pupils, not the white, and the animal grunting-like sounds, once you see it, you don't forget it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you think that wasn't just alcohol talking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was the alcohol may have been the conduit that allowed the possession?
unidentified		That was my feeling at the time.
		And as the years go on, I've come more and more to believe that.
		It just totally blew me away when I witnessed it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would think, ma'am, that anything like alcohol or drugs would be a conduit through which a person would be weakened.
		A person would certainly be weakened in some respects, and perhaps the conduit for something like that would be sort of an open door.
		So that doesn't surprise me at all.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be me.
unidentified		Oh, yes.
		I'm calling from Toronto, Canada.
		My name is Joe.
		Hi, Joe.
		Very interesting things have been happening lately with the Larsing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll say.
unidentified		But my question has to do more with something that happened today where I am now.
		Oh.
		It's nothing to do with UFOs.
		I guess in a way it is UFO sighting.
		But I was just, I live on the penthouse of an apartment building.
		It's about 20 floors, 19 floors up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, lucky you.
unidentified		Yes.
		And not too far from the airport, so I could see the traffic coming and going.
		So I see many planes and stuff like that.
		Sure.
		I was just changing a CD, putting a CD on, and from my peripheral vision, it was like a camera flash.
		And at first I just looked, and it seemed kind of strange because it wasn't coming from the apartment across.
		It seemed like it'd just be happening about eight or so feet from the window.
		And I just kind of forgot about it for about five.
		I was thinking about it.
		I was thinking, what was that?
		And my girlfriend was coming from the kitchen towards me, and it happened again.
		And she said, what was that?
		And all I really want to know is we can't figure out what it is.
		We know it's not from the apartment across from us.
		It seems by triangulation where she was looking from, she sees the sky on the other side.
		She doesn't see the apartment building like I do.
		So it seems like it couldn't have come from there, from her point of view, either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it was just a gigantic flash of light.
unidentified		It was like a camera flash.
unidentified		It seemed like it was just a pulse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Canada right now is in the middle of the street.
unidentified		I'm very aware of that, yeah.
		But this, we both can't figure it out.
		We don't know what it is.
		It might not have anything to do with that.
		We thought maybe somebody across the street has something, but it's not like a flashlight.
		It was like a pulse, and it was about, I'd say about six or seven feet outside the window.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You would like to know if others have seen that?
unidentified		That's basically it.
unidentified		You know, I know we're not crazy, and it could be anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I'm just curious.
		All right, let's ask.
		We're going to ask.
		All right, we'll find out.
		Anybody else have that?
		Canada is going through a definite gigantic flap right now.
		UFO sightings in Canada up 40%.
		40%.
		That is gigantic.
		Now.
		Maybe the UFOs are just sick of the reaction they're getting down here, and they decided to go see what the Canadians would do with it all.
		I don't know.
		They're pretty laid-back in Canada.
		For the most part.
		It's a UFO, eh?
		Look at that.
		You know, and not much more than that.
		Maybe UFOs operate more easily up there without getting people going as berserk as they do down here in the States.
		I don't know.
		East of the Rockies, you're on air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, good morning.
unidentified		Just had a question for Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be me.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
		Thanks for taking my call.
		Wonderful.
		Listen, it's because you had a story about, what, three, four weeks ago, of this one lady that went through a whole life change with a near-death experience, and now she has a whole point of a different point of view of life altogether.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not exactly sure.
		I'm going to have another one next week.
		Are you talking about a lady who...
		Oh, of course.
		Pamela, you're talking about a lady who was dead, dead, dead.
unidentified		Yes.
		Yes.
		It's because I'm a recent listener to your show.
		I love your show, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		It's very good.
unidentified		Have you ever heard of Donald Walsh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Conversations with God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Have you ever thought of having him on your show?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've had him on.
unidentified		Oh, you've had him on?
		Yes.
		Interesting.
		Any chance you'd have him up further in the future?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Always a chance, sir.
		I appreciate it.
		Yeah, sure.
		There aren't too many people you can think of that I haven't had on over the years.
		You know, I've been on the air a lot of years.
		I understand a lot of you are fairly new listeners.
		But there are a few out there.
		And so anytime anybody has a suggestion about anybody they want on, I always tell them the following.
		Get to a computer.
		Get me all the Information that you're able to on the person, the best way to contact them, the reason you think they would be good, and email it to me.
		I am Art Bell at MindSpring.com.
		All baby letters, all strewn together.
		Artbell, A-R-T-B-E-L-L at mindspring.com or artbell at A-O-L.com.
		Both accounts will get to me.
		West for the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
		Yes.
		I've always been curious about this ever since I started listening to your show regularly about a year ago.
		I first heard about it in 1998.
		And I believe that I have met you and had a conversation with you a long time ago, about 14 years ago, and I was about 15 then.
		And I talked to a man named Art who didn't say what his last name was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where?
unidentified		In his office.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		His office was where?
unidentified		It had a big orange sign in front of it.
unidentified		It was in a truck stop.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I've never had an office in a truck stop.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was not me.
unidentified		I was curious because we did talk about a lot of odd phenomenon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, no, I can assure you, I've been many places and I've been in truck stops.
		They're great places to eat, but I've never had an office in one.
		So that would have been a different march.
		All right, headed toward the bottom of the hour here.
		And again, we're in open lines.
		Anything goes, anything you want to talk about, certainly it's been a wild week with a wild week yet ahead of us.
		So whatever piques your interest, whatever you'd like to comment on is fair again throughout the end of the show here.
		Stay right where you are.
unidentified		Thank you.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are on the air on the international line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		I'm from Scotland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are the first caller from Scotland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, please?
unidentified		I'm in Madrid, Spain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Madrid, Spain.
		On the international line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Maria from South Africa, Cape Town.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the international line, you're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, please?
unidentified		Australia, Norway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coast to Coast and Worldwide.
unidentified		I had no direction.
		I did not know where I was going.
		I didn't see my life really going anywhere.
		I was working on an endless job, making $5 an hour.
		I just wanted to do something with my wife.
		I got off that bus and I was scared to death.
		I've never worked so hard for something in my life.
		I did things that I thought I couldn't do.
		You have to put all your heart into showing me what you do for you.
		After the weeks were over, you were like, wow, look, I'm also now tilted.
		I am a Marine.
		You feel like you conquered the world.
		Hold on the 15th!
		Dismissed!
		That day that they say dismissed, you know that you are a Marine.
		That you are one of the other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe you can be one of us.
unidentified		The few, the proud, the Marines.
		Call 1-800 Marines.
		When I crossed that grade deck and they played the Marine hymn, that was the proudest moment in my life.
		Sometimes Art Bell gives his long-haul trucker fans the honor of closing out his show.
		All right, let me hear your horn.
		One truck.
		Holy mackerel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
unidentified		Home tonight, America.
		From one trucker to the rest, A.M. Keep on trucking.
		All night long with Art Bell and Coast to Coast AM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was excellent.
		You've got your radio on, don't you?
		Turn your radio off.
		Is this Art?
		Yes, it is.
		Extinguish your radio, please.
		Yes, turn your radio off.
		What's your best guess?
unidentified		Are you Art Bell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm Harry.
		Turn off the radio.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air, hi.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello.
		Who am I calling?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, with regard to who you're calling, you would know more about that than I would.
unidentified		I was trying to reach Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who do you think you've reached?
unidentified		Oh, I have no idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you wanted what kind of pizza?
unidentified		Oh, I don't want any pizza.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, thanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You did order one, anchovies, right?
unidentified		No, no anchovies.
unidentified		I can't stand anchovies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coast to coast A.M. with Art Bell.
unidentified		Be sure to turn your radio off, know who you're calling, and know who you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You sure you're canceling this order then?
unidentified		No pizza.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, all right, fine.
		The March issue of After Dark is not for the faint of heart.
		If you're the least bit squeamish, when the March issue comes in the mail, you might think twice about reading it.
		Not only are there scary articles about the legendary Mothman creature and the dangers of root canals, but there are pictures that very well may gross you out.
		See for yourself the revolutionary last-ditch treatment that's saving limbs from infection and gangrene when surgery and antibiotics have failed.
		It's not pretty, but it's great reading.
		And it's all in the strange medicine issue of the After Dart newsletter.
		It's a good time to get on board and subscribe.
		Call right now, 1-888-727-5505, and you'll get 14 issues for the price of 12.
		That's too free.
		Free.
		The number once again, 1-888-727-5505.
		Or subscribe online at artbell.com.
		Just hit the library link to the secure server to order the one and only After Dark newsletter.
unidentified		There's something happening here, but What it is ain't exactly clear There's a man with a gun over there Telling me I got to beware The fake sign will stop children, What's that sound?
		Everybody look what's going down There's bad lines being drawn Nobody's right if everybody's wrong Young people speak in their minds Are getting so
		So much resistance from behind.
		And we're stopping.
		What's that sound?
		Everybody look what's going down.
		Call Art Bell in the kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator.
		and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly what it is.
		Good morning.
		We're in open lines.
		Now, Friday night, Saturday morning, end of the weekend.
unidentified		It has been a wild one.
		Thank you.
		Rust 99.
		Goodbye, Bob.
		So instead of stuffing envelopes and licking stamps like Rust, maybe you should try a wet sponge, man.
		Thanks.
		Tell your tax professional to delete the paperwork and hit send with IRS e-file.
		Goodbye, Violet.
		To find a tax professional who uses e-file, visit irs.gov.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, I've decided we are going to have a shadow government seal contest.
		Now, what is that?
		Well, when you presently see the President of the United States, when you generally see the President of the United States addressing the country, there is the seal of the President of the United States right there.
		It's very formative.
		It's very formidable.
		It's what we're all used to seeing and comforted by.
		But, you know, the shadow government would have to have a different seal because, as I understand it, there is only one branch.
		The other branches are just not there.
		So the shadow government seal would have to be different.
		Now, I know some of you out there have really grand imaginations.
		And you are very, very talented when it comes to computer graphics.
		So let us design a shadow government seal.
		We will have a shadow government seal contest.
		Now, you may email entries to webmaster at artbell.com.
		That's where you send them.
		Webmaster at artbell.com.
		And if we develop a lot of good ones, we will develop a little shadow government seal page from which we will pick the grandest of them all.
		With absolutely no prize to be given whatsoever except perhaps that moment of swelled chest when you realize that you have risen to the top to cream de la cream.
		So do your best out there and send them to webmaster at artbell.com and then of course with permission to put them up on the website.
		It's going to have a seal.
		Wildcard line, you're on air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		How are you doing this morning?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing okay.
unidentified		Hi, this is Bill of West Hartford, Connecticut, of course.
unidentified		As an atheist myself, I have no qualms about Richard Seal, but he talks about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bill, Bill, Bill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bill, there is now a requirement.
unidentified		You don't want me to say that anymore.
unidentified		I won't say it anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I've said that to you several times, and I want you to stop saying you're an atheist.
		Everybody knows it.
		Not many care.
unidentified		Okay, I promise.
		I promise.
		Let me continue the sentence so you can see it's the best.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		proceed.
unidentified		As what I just said, I have no qualms or fears regarding what Richard C. Hoagland said regarding Sidonia, the face on Mars, or the other things on Mars.
		The gist of what I'm talking about can be summed up in a phrase: we have to live in the real world.
		We have to live in reality.
		Now, the real world about science and particularly the scientific method.
		Another word for science is knowledge.
		You should know that.
		It's science is the Latin word for knowledge.
		Now, the science and the scientific method, which Richard C. Hogan was talking about, does prove out, and I've seen the photos from Phobos and what Richard Hogan was talking about, that there is indeed something artificial on Mars.
		Many things artificial on Mars.
		So myself, it does not threaten me.
		And I think that wouldn't it be better for the whole world to want to know facts?
		S-A-C-T-S.
		In other words, if Richard C. Hogan is talking about, A, let's say there is no God, B, we were created by beings from Mars or beings from Nebru, if that's true, Zachariah Sitchin, isn't it better to live in the real world to find out?
		And I have a follow-up.
		Would you discuss this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, maybe you're the one I need to put with JC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you like that?
unidentified		I'd love to talk to JC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		We'll see if I might arrange that.
		I don't know how I'd arrange it, but maybe it could be arranged.
unidentified		Can I give you one more point, please, quickly?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bill, Bill, Bill, Bill?
		Send me your phone number and email so I have it.
		That's how I can arrange it.
		When I get JC on someday, I'll call you.
unidentified		Let me say one more thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you hear what I said?
unidentified		Yes, I did.
		Yes, yes.
		I'll give you my phone number and my email.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess they will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
unidentified		Can I say one more thing, though?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I'm afraid that maybe, just maybe, NASA, if it's involved with this shadow government that you talk about, the only way this thing may come out, if the alternative is worse, let me explain.
		If the alternative somehow meant that we're getting close to, if we are, a World War III nuclear war, and the only way to maybe forestall nuclear World War III, which is what I fear we're leading to now in the Middle East, is by bringing out what's going on in Sidonia, bringing public about Mars in the hopes of bringing the world together.
		Maybe that is the last resort NASA would do it.
		I hope it doesn't come to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Ridd Richard has been saying, Bill, thank you for a long time, that we do have a shadow NASA, right?
		So now we know we have a shadow government.
		We might have a shadow NASA.
		Maybe they'll get the job done.
		Shadow government.
		God.
		I can't believe it.
		I just can't believe it.
		I wonder what the motto of the shadow government would be.
		There's a whole nother contest.
		You could have a motto contest in what we believe.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Hello?
		Hello?
unidentified		Oh, I'm on now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you are indeed.
unidentified		Oh, great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		Okay.
		Basically, you're speaking to Richard here.
		Well, not here, but way up in Winnipeg.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Winnipeg.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Close to the center of the continent, that is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		UFO country it is now.
unidentified		Oh, by the way, it's 42%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		42%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's very impressive.
unidentified		Anyway, basically calling about tonight's show as far as the Brookings Institute report.
		Ah, yes.
		Yeah.
		I would love to see a show, like it's a suggestion for a future show, whether it's done in the month of March or sometime soon or a month after that, whatever.
		But could you please, Art, you know, have a show where there's like a real honest re-evaluation of this report, like 2002 style.
		Like if you were to possibly get some experts in a panel of your choosing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what I think, sir?
		What?
		I have suggested, I'm going to tell you a little secret.
		I have suggested to people who have the money to fund such a thing that there should be a second Brookings report.
		And that idea is being worked on.
		The Brookings Institution claims to be busy with other things, so even if funded, they might not do it.
		But I would like to see a second Brookings report.
		I'm sure that I really don't have – look.
		You just couldn't do it.
		I don't think you could do it.
		Maybe you could.
		What do I know?
		I'll consider it.
		Okay.
unidentified		Out of curiosity, exactly, how big is this vocal minority as far as they're big?
		Nobody.
		The percentage of the United States population exactly, what does that add up to as far as how few million?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many would be fundamentalist enough to be disturbed by information that all we thought about ourselves is wrong?
		I'll bet you over 25% at least.
		Okay.
		That's a lot.
unidentified		Okay.
		Out of that 25%, like if one was to do a re-evaluation of this Brookings Institute report, like you've got to ask yourself, really, what's going to happen?
		Like ABCD, as in how many of them would go postal?
		How many of them would become tower snipers?
		How many of them would simply commit suicide?
		Or how many of them would do whatever?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All of those are really, thank you, good questions.
		I mean, really good questions.
		And when it gets right down to it, those are the kind of statistics that you would have to come up with that would aid you in making a decision about whether you would make something public or not.
		As he said, how many would become postal?
		How many would go to a tower and start shooting?
		How many would begin behaving very differently because all of a sudden they believed something different about their origins and possibly God himself?
		I would not begin to know how to break down such statistical projections, but there are plenty of people who can do it.
		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		I'd like to talk about the rash.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Jay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		First, I'd like to give a treatment that I developed.
		You see, I had the rash on my feet.
		Okay.
		Massive doses of beta-carotene, up to 1 million IU a day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy mackerel.
unidentified		And Sodium chloride, elevated amounts of sodium chloride.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all of you consult your doctor before doing any of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it worked for you, huh?
unidentified		But it worked for me.
unidentified		My feet finally turned gray, and large patches of dead skin fell off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know if that sounds so attractive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your feet turned gray?
unidentified		Well, where the rest was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Beta-carotene, you would think they'd turn orange.
unidentified		I never got up high enough with the beta-carotene to turn orange.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A million units?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a lot.
unidentified		Yeah, that's a lot, but it was eaten up by the microorganism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So your feet turned gray and all the skin fell off?
unidentified		The skin that had the rash on it fell off, and underneath was new pink skin.
unidentified		Perfectly fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow, like a snake.
unidentified		Yeah, like a snake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like a snake shedding his skin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty incredible, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, it is, but it worked.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I appreciate the hint.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh, take care.
unidentified		Consult your doctors before doing anything like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Peep turned gray, huh?
		Where the rash had been all fell off, and there underneath was all the new baby pink skin.
		This rash is weird.
		Really, really weird.
		First time caller align, you're on ear.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, I'm sorry.
unidentified		I have a really dumb question because I just got in the middle of listening to your show late tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's all right.
unidentified		About the Brookings.
		What is just some basic pointers?
		What is that about?
		Because I went to their website just a little bit ago.
		I couldn't find anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Brookings report basically is a study done by the Brookings Institution some long time ago now that said that if the population were to be suddenly informed of the presence of alien life, or if they were to suddenly be informed that our origins are not what they thought they were,
		or something that would disturb religious and scientific institutions, there would be chaos and that such a secret would be better held as a secret.
		That's the 101.
unidentified		I would have to agree with that 100%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Me too.
unidentified		Especially with some of the religious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I always have agreed with this.
		One difference Richard and I have always had.
		I think Brookings is every bit as true today.
		And another study, if it were done, I believe, would say the same thing.
unidentified		Probably say the same thing, exactly.
		And I have to agree with you.
		What a stupid name.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, but all the things they could have called, I mean, five minutes on any chat site, any bulletin board, anywhere, and somebody would know to call it that.
unidentified		Well, I catch you every once in a while when I'm up late on the weekend, but on Friday nights here in Houston.
unidentified		But I have enjoyed listening to you, and I appreciate you taking the time to talk with me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, and take care.
unidentified		All righty.
unidentified		Bye-bye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wild Hardline, you're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Mr. Bell.
		Hi.
		This is Brandy in East Tennessee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yo, Brandy.
unidentified		First of all, about that name, I'm not sure, but I think what happened is the Washington Post is the one that came out with this story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And I think they're the ones that gave it that name.
		Yeah, that's a headline.
		That's an attention grabber.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me tell you something.
		The Washington Post is connected, hon. Really connected.
		Really, really connected.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		And what I'm saying is that may not be what the government calls it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They probably have some other technical name for it or something.
unidentified		That is precisely why it was called that was because that would really get everybody's attention.
		They'd want to go by the paper.
		Anyway, I don't want to sound like a complete flake, but I've been wrestling with this for the longest time, and the stuff tonight with Mr. Hugland has got it ruining again in my teeny little head.
		I have a hard time justifying for myself, morally, doing something like funding a mission to Mars when we've got babies hungry right now here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Not to mention everywhere else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But okay.
		Aren't there always going to be hungry babies?
		Are there hungry people and homeless people aren't there?
unidentified		Do there have to be?
		I mean, are our priorities completely skewed?
		I mean, this is what I've been, for 10 years I've been fighting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me tell you this.
		In our society, in our society, here in America, there are always going to be homeless people.
		Always.
		As long as America is what it is, which is a place where you're required to go out and work your way through life.
		There are going to be some people who choose not to work their way through life.
unidentified		Or aren't they?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there are going to be other people incapable of working their way through life.
		We have a responsibility as society to help those who are incapable.
		But we do not have a responsibility, in my opinion, to help those who don't give a damn.
		So there will always be hungry people.
unidentified		Okay.
		I don't know.
		I've just...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then fine, help them.
unidentified		But we're not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But there will always be hungry people.
unidentified		But we're not helping them.
unidentified		I mean, how many, I forget what the step was, but it was this huge percentage of homeless people are severely mentally ill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, and those we have a responsibility to help them.
unidentified		But we're not meeting that responsibility.
		And we're talking about spending billions of dollars to go look at the moon.
		I mean, I'm totally, completely, horribly interested ever since I was a kid.
		You know, the whole astronaut when I was a kid, thank you.
		But this just eats me up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're a big country.
		I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time.
		I really do.
		And so I think, thank you, with the amounts of money that we spend on weapons systems, which is embarrassing, and the amount of money that even we spend on the space program, I mean, she's got a point.
		We could, and we have a responsibility to help those in this country that cannot help themselves.
		We do not have a responsibility to Help those who do not wish to participate in what America offers.
		You know, as for those people, I'm sorry.
		I don't have a lot of sympathy.
		You know, if they want to sit around with their hands out, then as far as I'm concerned, their hand can hang in the air.
		So we're always going to have some degree of homelessness and poverty in America.
		And that should not stop us from doing things that we should be doing.
		And one of those things is exploring outward.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, Eric.
unidentified		This is John from Goodland, Minnesota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, John.
unidentified		Regarding the Billy Myers story the other night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		I think we should regard the hypothesis, since we have fallible human beings, that would you turn your radio off, please?
unidentified		I will, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		I can't conduct conversations with radios on in the background.
		All right, thank you.
unidentified		Thanks.
unidentified		I think we have to entertain the hypothesis, as fallible human beings, that it might be E.T. disinformation, despite how true all this information might be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have to believe it could be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's lies, sweet little lies.
unidentified		It kind of reminds me of my dad, you know, years ago developing never-ending makework projects, like pulling all the weeds in the yard or varnishing the basketball hoop.
		And I would never finish.
		I knew I would never finish.
		I never really began it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He made you varnish the basketball hoop?
unidentified		Well, sand it and varnish it and that type of thing.
unidentified		I mean, it reminds me really of hitting the New World Order and the military and the secret government against the New Agers and the peace next and the environmentalists and keeping us all so busy that we're missing the big story that wasn't mentioned that night was that here we are 10,000 years into an interglacial period overdue for an ice age.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		With climate change all around, we can see the mechanism possibly which is the ocean currents maybe that would create the ice age slip.
		And we have prophecies, Galore of an ice age.
		And we gave him three hours to bring that up as one of the most frightening things that could happen.
		And he never mentioned it a single bit.
		And to me, it's very, very suspicious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All sorts of things right now are very, very suspicious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you think that a lot of this could be diversionary to keep our eyes off what's occurring and what they're trying to do about it or whatever.
unidentified		Like getting two, you know, the good brother and the bad brother fighting in the middle of the road, and meanwhile, they don't see the runaway truck coming down the road hitting them.
		I don't know.
		I have an open mind about all this, but I'm just suspicious, I guess.
		Well, good for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You should be suspicious.
		We all should be highly suspicious of our government, and we need to keep an eye on them.
		And the minute you don't, they're like my cats.
		They get into big trouble.
		So we've got to keep our eye very closely fixed on what our government is doing.
		And, you know, what do you think, by the way, of the name shadow government?
unidentified		Well, it's pretty funny, actually.
unidentified		If somebody has a sense of humor at the post or something, I mean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that going to fire up?
		I mean, you watch the internet this weekend.
		There will be 5 trillion shadow government emails, and it's going to fire all the people up who are paranoid to begin with.
		So whoever thought this up is an idiot.
		Listen, I really appreciate your call.
		We're out of showtime here, so tell everybody across the Americas and elsewhere good night.
unidentified		Thanks, everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, wait.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, tell them good night.
unidentified		Oh, good night, everyone across America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
		Good night, sir.
		That'll do it.
		Next week is going to be a whiz banger here.
		It really is going to be quite good.
		So enjoy the weekend post shows, and I'll see you back on Monday with bells on from the high desert, Tata.
		Music.
		The March issue of the After Dark newsletter is like nothing you've ever seen.
		We've included images of some of the most dramatic before and after healing photos you've ever seen.
		Find out about the miraculous treatment that's saving lives and Lynn's from infection and gangrene.
		Plus, do you have a root canal?
		Read about the dentist who thinks root canals could be destroying your health.
		Plus, find out who my favorite guest from the last few years is.
		It's not who you may think.
		And of course, there's the evil Mothman.
		See the 9-11 photo that could be the Mothman at the World Trade Center tragedy.
		What an issue this is.
		It's all in the March issue of the After Dark newsletter.
		Call right now, 1-888-727-5505 for only $39.95.
		You get two free issues, 14 for the price of 12.
		The number to subscribe, 1-888-727-5505.
		Or log on to artbell.com and hit the library link to the secure server to order.
		Call now, 1-888-727-5505.
unidentified		Bizarre stories are the order of the day on Art Bell's Ghost to Ghost AM.
unidentified		This caller says his elderly sister is being visited by extraterrestrials.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It started one night about two months ago.
unidentified		She got in bed and something grabbed her by the foot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hate these kinds of stories.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		She pulled her foot back and they grabbed her foot again and stuck a needle in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really hate those stories.
unidentified		And they pulled the covers back and sprayed the back of her head and stuck a needle in her head.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then she ran to get her brother to help.
unidentified		He thought she was imagining it, so he went and laid on her bed.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And they sat on his feet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They sat on his feet.
unidentified		Yep.
unidentified		So he kicked them off.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But they don't seem to bother him as much.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		She's kind of gotten used to them now.
unidentified		They put a probe up her nose.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But they've gotten to where they'll sleep on the bed with her.
unidentified		Join Art Bell all night, overnight on coast to coast a.m.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If that was me, I would be wanting to talk to an exorcist right now.
unidentified		USA Radio Network News, I'm L.P. Phillips.
		NASA officials decided to continue with the mission of the Space Shuttle Columbia despite problems with the cooling system.
		MMT meeting that we just concluded agreed that we would continue the mission for the next 24 hours while we continued to review data and look at our processing records and our workmanship or modification records to see if there was anything that we can determine might be unusual.
		That was shuttle program manager Ron Dittmore who says depending on the conditions of one of the freon loops in the shuttle schooling system, the mission may have to be terminated early.
		That determination will not be made until later in the day.
		Former Enron President Jeffrey Skilling uses the forum of Larry King show to sound off against his treatment by members of Congress.
		Lawmakers have grilled him about the energy trading giant's collapse, and Skilling issued an accusation of his own.
		Well, I think, you know, I certainly think that the Congress was acting as judge and jury.
		I don't think the Congress was acting as a fact-finding entity trying to figure out what happened, which is the reason I was trying to help fill in the missing pieces.
		He said they found him guilty until proven innocent.
		In his words, President Bush said Friday the U.S. has created a shadow government to make sure there is ongoing leadership should a disaster ever strike the nation's capital.
		He confirmed representatives of key government agencies have been working in secret underground bunkers for the last six months.
		This is USA Radio News.
		If you're going bald, you probably think it was because your father was bald.
		Well, guess what?
		A recent medical discovery showed that 95% of all hair loss is due to the body's overproduction of DHT.
		But now there's great news for men and women.
		Introducing Hair Advantage, the world's only dual-action hair regrowth system that stops DHT naturally.
		The result is permanent dense hair regrowth.
		Hair Advantage contains a patented active ingredient called lonitin that was approved by the FDA for hair regrowth.
		In clinical studies, the majority of people regrew their hair with an incredible 66% experiencing dense hair regrowth.
		Hair Advantage will reverse baldness, fill in embarrassing bald spots, and regrow up to a full head of new dense hair.
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		Call toll-free, 1-800-862-1814.
		That's 800-862-1814.
		Call now.
		800-862-1814.
		Good news on the manufacturing, retail, and construction fronts.
		It sent the John Jones Industrial Average to a six-month high Friday, closing 263 points higher at 10,369.
		That puts up just over 4% of a gain, something prudential analyst Byron Pakowski calls a constructive day.
		Looks like March came in like a lion, or at least like a bulb.
		For the third straight day, we had excellent economic news on the Street of Dreams, but unlike prior two sessions, it did not fade.
		So what we had was basically some follow-through and a willingness for some traders to take home long positions over the weekend.
		I think all said and done is a step in the right direction, yet follow-through remains to be seen.
		That good news also drove NASDAQ and the S ⁇ P 500 higher.
		Also roaring like a lion, the weather, a storm that's already unleashed half a foot of snow around Denver is now making its way across the eastern Great Plains.
		Few flakes already falling over the Dakotas and Nebraska, but meteorologists say the heaviest snow expected to hit the Chicago area.
		This is USA News.
		One of the most valuable lessons we can teach our children is the importance of prayer.
		That's why Samaritans Purse is offering a free copy of Kids Praying for Kids, a 12-month prayer journal written by Franklin Graham, son of Billy Graham.
		Your child will learn to pray for the needy at home and around the world.
		For a free copy of Kids Praying for Kids, call Samaritans Purse at 1-800-967-6060.
		An effective prayer life starts at home.
		Call 1-800-967-6060.
		A federal appeals court has ordered a new trial for a New York City police officer convicted of assaulting a prisoner in a Brooklyn police station.
		Charles Schwartz was convicted of violently assaulting Abner Lewima back in 1997.
		Linda Tripp, the woman who brought on the Monica Lewinsky scandal by taping her conversations with the intern, has breast cancer.
		She made the revelation through her lawyers on Friday, who say she is showing great courage and dignity, encouraging people to pray for her.
		Finally, many people just plain think their taxes stink.
		This may well be the case, and even a case of poetic justice in one town.
		In California's main tax office, they had to evacuate Friday after raw sewage roiled through the halls.
		Authorities aren't sure where the muck came from, but about 2,000 employees had to stop everything they were doing, including processing tax returns and get out.
		From the USA Radio Network, I'm L.P. Phillips.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The March issue of the After Dark newsletter is like nothing you've ever seen.
		We've included images of some of the most dramatic before and after healing photos you've ever seen.
		Find out about the miraculous treatment that's saving lives and Lynn's from infection and gangrene.
		Plus, do you have a root canal?
		Read about the dentist who thinks root canals could be destroying your health.
		Plus, find out who my favorite guest from the last few years is.
		It's not who you may think.
		And of course, there's the evil Mothman.
		See the 9-11 photo that could be the Mothman at the World Trade Center tragedy.
		What an issue this is.
		It's all in the March issue of the After Dark newsletter.
		Call right now, 1-888-727-5505 for only $39.95.
		You get two free issues, $14 for the price of $12.
		The number to subscribe, 1-888-727-5505.
		Or log on to artbell.com and hit the library link to the secure server to order.
		Call now, 1-888-727-5505.
unidentified		Call now, 1-888-727-5505.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever thou may be in all 24 time zones served by this program.
		All the way around the world.
		It's close to close a.m., and I'm Marbell.
		It's Friday night, Saturday morning.
unidentified		Just absolutely spiffy to be here tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's see what the world has to serve up to us this night.
		It says Al-Qaeda and Taliban fighters are regrouping in the mountains of eastern Pakistan, an eastern Pakistani province just over the border.
		says there are about four or five thousand of them.
		So gee whiz, why don't we find out where they're regrouping and degroup them?
		I would imagine they would cooperate to that degree in Pakistan, wouldn't they?
		Let us particularly if they're you know like isolated in the mountains somewhere.
		We apparently have these little drone guys that can go and find a little speckle on the ground and deliver incredible ordinance to it instantly.
		Those are some machines we've got buzzing around over there.
		President Bush has agreed to Yemen's request to provide U.S. troops to train its military in combating terrorists.
		That's interesting.
		This is in an interview with a psychiatrist videotaped three weeks after she drowned her five children last summer, Andrea Yates said, get this, she believed she had to kill the children to keep them from going to hell.
		On the tape, which was played during her capital murder trial, Yates said that after the bathtub drowning, she believed the state would execute her, Satan would be eliminated from the world, and the children would be saved.
		Quote, these were their innocent years, end quote.
		God would take them up.
		Former Enron chief executive Jeffrey Skilling says that he could not have overseen everything at the company and accuses lawmakers who have challenged his testimony of acting as judge and jury.
		In an election year, he adds.
		Skilling said on Larry King Live that he believed he made the right decisions before Enron collapsed into the biggest bankruptcy in U.S. history.
		That's an interesting line.
		You think you made the right decisions just before the biggest bankruptcy in all of U.S. history is declared.
		We're going to hear, we're going to break with a little bit of tradition tonight because there's a lot going on in space.
		There's a lot going on on Mars.
		Oh, man.
		All kinds of breaking news.
		Obviously, the kind of person you want to have around for that is Richard C. Hoglund.
		Space Shuttle Columbia blasted into orbit for the first time in more than two years today.
		You know, it's interesting.
		I forget what it was, 22 minutes after the hour, something like that.
		It was 22 after.
		And CNN headline was covering or about to cover the launch.
		And the lady doing the, as a British would say, presenting, said the shuttle is due to launch, and it goes to a picture of the shuttle.
		And you can see the shuttle engines beginning to ignite.
		She said it's due to launch at 22 afternoon, and we will cover it.
		And then, boom, they went to commercial.
		You can actually, as they went to commercial, you could see the shuttle actually starting to launch.
		So then when they came back from commercial, all they could do was give us tape.
		I wonder how that happened.
unidentified		Damn it, Frank, you threw the wrong switch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe.
		Anyway, they've got problems.
		It's a cooling system, and it's a pretty big concern, I guess.
		Maybe not enough to bring them back immediately, although I guess that was considered.
		They may come back in a day.
		They're going to have a meeting tomorrow, I guess, and decide what to do.
		Richard will fill us in on what's really going on up there.
		The Reverend Billy Graham apologized today for a 1972 conversation with former President Nixon in which he said the Jewish stranglehold, oh wow, the Jewish stranglehold of the media was ruining the country and must be broken.
unidentified		Oh my goodness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The things we say.
		Speaking of the things we say, what the hell's wrong with Ted Turner anyway?
		Here's a Fox News story headline.
		Ted Turner says hijackers were brave men February 13th most of the world praised the firefighters, rescue workers, and police officers as the courageous ones on September 11th, from our point of view, certainly.
		Many of the bravest of all were the passengers who wrestled with their hijackers over Pennsylvania that day, you bet, causing their plane to go down in the mountains and preventing an even worse catastrophe.
		But media mogul Ted Turner said Monday night that there were other brave people, the terrorists themselves, on the day of the World Trade Center, when it crumbled to the ground and a section of the Pentagon was destroyed.
		Now, in a statement released Tuesday, Ted said his remarks were reported out of context and that he regrets any pain they may have caused.
		That's the modern PC apology.
		you know you regret any pain that whatever you did caused All right, well, there's a lot of news.
		The Bush administration, and I'm sure there's a lot of buzz about this out there, has activated Cold War-era plans for a shadow government.
		Now, right away, they've chosen the wrong phrase here, shadow government.
		Why would they use that?
		What's The matter with those people?
		Don't they read the conspiracy stuff on the internet?
		Don't they know what people think of the phrase shadow government?
		And so they're brazen, they call it a shadow government, consisting of 75 or more senior officials who live and work secretly outside Washington in case a nation's capital is crippled by a terrorist attack.
		The officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, oh gee, now why would he want to be anonymous, said the operation has been in effect since the first hours after the September 11th terrorist attacks and has evolved over time.
		And then, of course, you knew I was going to get emails about it, about the shadow government, and so I'm getting them.
		And they raise some pretty good points, I would say.
		Yours less, who says, hey, Art, isn't the U.S. government supposed to have three branches executive, legislative, and judicial?
		Separation of powers and all that, you know, right?
		Well, how come Bush's shadow government only has one branch, apparently executive?
		Where are the shadow senators?
unidentified		Where are the shadow reps and the shadow judges?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it sounds like the man is created or rather admitted to have already being created is an emergency dictatorship that would not require legislative or judicial branches.
		How convenient.
		It is clear this shadow government is news to Congress.
		So, you know, he makes a pretty good point here.
		I mean, where is the you know, a shadow implies that you have some duplication, even if in a negative of the original, and there's a bunch of the shadow missing there.
		The checks and balances, part of the shadow, they're missing.
		It's like no arms and no legs.
		All we have is the body.
		On the other hand, you would expect, and you would even demand, that our government have some kind of plan just in case, you know, if Washington was blown to smithereens or the White House suffered an atomic attack, or God, you could imagine a million horrible scenarios with terrorism, right?
		That there would have to be a continuance of government.
		So I certainly understand that and that they should be doing that.
		But why not make it some resemblance and some semblance of the government that you now know works so well?
		I mean, it really does, for all the grumbling that we do about our government.
		It's a pretty good system, you know.
		The executive branch, the legislative branch, which is probably a pain in the neck to each other, but they are checks and balances.
		And then, of course, the great judges who decide what the law of the land is.
		Now, that just really does make a good combination, and it's kept us out of trouble a lot of times.
		You know, with presidents who would have done things that, well, would have been way out of line.
		You know, like grabbing power.
		Well, you just can't do that.
		You can't grab power here because there's too many checks and balances.
		Your butt's going to jail.
		But if you just have one branch, that's not good.
		That's not a good shadow.
		Maybe there's something about it that I haven't heard, but I didn't hear anything about those other branches.
		Well, the rash stories.
		What am I going to tell you about this?
		As you know, the CDC is looking into what the hell this mystery rash is, now officially said to be in I'll read you part of the CNN story.
		Federal authorities are working with state and local health officials to determine the cause of mysterious rashes among school children, and I might add more, I'm adding that, in 14 widespread states.
		It is not clear whether a single cause is behind the rashes, which tend to be mild and then go away by themselves.
		The first outbreak happened in October in Indiana.
		Subsequent cases have occurred as recently as February 21.
		CDC, let's see, concluded in its morbidity weekly report.
		Morbidity and mortality.
		Ooh, how'd you like to be the person making out that report?
		What do you do?
		I make out the morbidity and mortality weekly report.
		Probably put an attitude on you after you'd been doing that for a while.
		The rashes have been reported primarily among elementary school students, though.
		A few middle and high schoolers have been affected as well, said the report.
		Listen, I'm here to tell you that almost every single state, I've heard from every state multiple times with regard to this rash.
		Now, again, we may be bumping into the snowball effect.
unidentified		I've got rash too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or this may be absolutely, certainly there is a real component.
		How real the component is to this, I don't know yet.
		I know I'm getting thousands of emails about rashes.
		Thousands of emails.
		So I wonder if they're really caught up on how widespread it is.
		And it really is a mystery.
		There are certain people who claim they know what it is.
		It has something to do with milk in the schools or something.
		But now it's going into the general population.
		That's what they're not reporting here.
		That's one of the things they're not reporting.
		They're not reporting, in my opinion, how really widespread it is at all.
		And they're not reporting that it's gone beyond children.
		But, you know, according to my reading, it absolutely has.
		What's going on on Mars is really, really exciting stuff.
		We'll talk about it in a moment or a little bit about it and a whole lot about it with Richard C. Hoagland.
		But apparently, folks, what we're getting from the satellite circulating about Mars now is going to confirm a lot of very, I mean, really exciting things about Mars.
		There probably was, or you might even get a little more excited here, might be now life on Mars.
		Maybe not as we know it, but you can almost bet that if there's I mean, if water came up in volcanic spurts like Old Faithful, if there was that much water and there still is that kind of water underground and there's, you know, there's evidence of very recent water flow and there's even evidence of green stuff.
		I mean, this is beginning to get to be fairly interesting.
		That's why I thought Richard really ought to be here tonight.
		Down at the South Pole, they talk about green stuff that seems to be, or, you know, maybe people are afraid to say it, but who knows?
		It could be vegetation, right?
		Could be.
unidentified		Are you one of the companies?
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Happening with the economy is obvious.
		When that happens, gold goes up.
		Duh.
		Call now before more of what you have is gone.
		1-800-474-4259.
		Tell them you heard it from Meart Bell.
		They'll send you a pre-gold profit kit and special report titled Why the Experts Picked Gold in 2002.
		The number to call is 1-800-474-4259.
		That's 800-474-4259.
		Information is power and then money.
		You want to know what it's like to have a little taste of space?
		You only have but to walk outside.
		Now, if you really, really would like to explore space, and I mean deep space, try and imagine, close your eyes and imagine seeing deep star clusters.
		Imagine seeing the rings of Saturn, Mars.
		Imagine seeing the craters on the moon in such detail that you'll feel like you're walking across them.
		Well, if you get one of these downtown gigantic telescopes from Harden Optical, we've got two versions of gigantic telescopes.
		And one is a six-inch diameter.
		That's a big mama.
		The other is a gigantic mama, about eight inches in diameter.
		And oh, when you see UPS bring these babies, you're not going to believe it.
		The six-inch is $299.
		The 8-inch, $399.
		Both will take you deep into space.
		The number to call for the best telescope for the money you'll ever buy is 1-877-447-4847.
		877-447-4847 or see it online before you buy at forthenightsky.com.
		That's F-O-R-4thenightSky.com.
		Call them in the morning.
		The 8-inch scopes are not going to be with us very long.
		877-447-4847.
unidentified		877-447-4847.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, you know, could that really be?
		Could there be that much water on Mars?
		If there's that much water on Mars, then as Richard told us last time he was on, I'm sure he's going to be telling us again now, that means there is fuel on Mars.
		With water, you can make rocket fuel.
		And that makes a trip to Mars very likely.
		So, in other words, the information coming now from the satellite may be what pushes us over the brink of our president, you know, getting on TV and saying, we have a national goal.
		We're going to Mars and we're going to do it by the year 2012.
		What do you think, folks?
		2012.
		How about we play it safe on this side of the mine calendar and we make it before the year 2012?
unidentified		That'd be a good year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A plume of hot volcanic metal rock is rising beneath Africa right now.
		Now, the title of this article is BBC News.
		The title of the article is Volcano Threatens to Divide Africa.
		Volcanoes, plural, threaten to divide Africa.
		So you've got this hot volcanic mantle rock rising beneath Africa.
		And according to international researchers, it could eventually create, check it out, a new ocean.
		The Ethiopian Rift is one of the few places in the world where we can see the transition from continental rifting to something that looks more oceanic.
		According to Dr. Cindy Ebinger, who told the BBC World Service Program, it's a unique area worldwide.
		The crack in the Earth's surface runs for 2,000 kilometers.
		So they're saying, with the right conditions, a series of volcanoes could divide Africa, if you can imagine that in your mind, divide Africa, and there would be a new ocean created, I guess, between.
		Now, those are what I would dub as fairly serious earth changes.
		How about you?
		Then, of course, there is the big rock in Hawaii that, now that was treated as a fairly small story the other day.
		But this rock up on the volcano is the size of Rhode Island.
		That's a really big rock.
		And it moves several inches.
		One of our satellites caught this rock going several inches.
		Now the bottom line is, they say if the rock falls into the Pacific Ocean from all the way up on the volcano, this will cause a very large wave.
		They're saying about 100-foot wave that would come crashing ashore around the entire Pacific rim.
		That's everywhere.
		You know, that's everywhere.
		That's all up and down the American coast, you know, the South American coast, Alaska, Japan, China, the Philippines, all the way around.
		A hundred-foot wave.
		So that's a really big rock.
		And so it moved three inches.
		That's something to think about.
		That was treated as a fairly small story, but it's a pretty big story, really.
		That's a pretty serious movement.
		Well, they think it is, anyway.
		You know, they watch from satellite.
		And so we haven't been watching movements like that a lot.
		But still, it doesn't sound good to me.
		When a big boulder is up there on the cliff and you're down there and you're looking up and the boulder begins to move, you usually go, uh-oh.
		Or at least, uh-oh.
		Right?
		So I thought that story was a bit undertreated, actually.
		Richard Hoagland is coming right up.
unidentified		Don't you love her badly?
		Don't you need her badly?
		Don't you love her ways?
		Tell me what you say.
		Don't you love her badly?
		Want to be her daddy?
		Don't you love her face?
		Don't you love her?
		Walking out the door like you did 1,000 times before.
		Don't you love her ways?
		Tell me what you say.
		Don't you love her ways?
		Art Bell and special guest, George Carlin.
		I love an earthquake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I love a bigger earthquake.
unidentified		They're never as big as I'd like.
		No, we need a 25.
		I think of it as an amusement park ride.
		It's really, I mean, it's such a wonderful thing to realize you have absolutely no control.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		George, a 25 would turn entire continents over.
unidentified		Ah, now you're talking on it.
		Coast to coast A.M. with Art Bell, weeknights on this station.
		Greatness, we've got bananas at one o'clock.
		Mike's on.
		Engaging now.
		What kind of person can handle an F-16 dueling in a mock-speed dogfight?
		Why, a math teacher, of course, when she's in the National Guard and Reserve.
		Nearly half of today's military are members of the Guard and Reserve, but they can't do it without their employer's support.
		If you're an employer, visit www.esgr.org and learn how to do your part.
		After all, their response depends on yours.
		A public service message from ESGR and the Ad Council.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anomalous line, I guess we'll call it.
		Possessed or timeline, whatever.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Hello, this is Elvis Presley.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is Elvis Presley?
unidentified		That's right, this is Elvis Presley.
		I don't want you to get the wrong idea because a lot of people say I'm still alive.
		I'm not alive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've been just hanging out on the sidelines.
		Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
		Come and hang out with us.
		Have you saved a life today?
		I took two flood victims to a shelter.
unidentified		I donated a Dave Spade to help a family that lost everything in a fire.
		Have you saved a life today?
		I teach a class in Infant CPR.
		I donated a pint of blood.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you saved a life today?
unidentified		No, but today somebody saved mine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The American Red Cross.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Together, we can save a life.
unidentified		Call 1-800-HELPNOW or visit redcross.org to offer your support.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got your radio on, don't you?
		Turn your radio off.
		Is it Thorpe?
		Yes, it is.
		Extinguish your radio, please.
		Yes, turn your radio off.
		What's your best guess?
unidentified		Are you Art Bell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm Harry.
		Turn off the radio.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air, huh?
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello.
		Who am I calling?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, with regard to who you're calling, you would know more about that than I would.
unidentified		I was trying to reach Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who do you think you've reached?
unidentified		I have no idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you wanted what kind of pizza?
unidentified		Oh, I don't want any pizza.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, thanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You did order one, anchovies, right?
unidentified		No, no anchovies.
unidentified		I can't stand anchovies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell.
unidentified		Be sure to turn your radio off, know who you're calling, and know who you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you sure you're canceling this order then?
unidentified		No pizza.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, all right, fine.
		The After Dark newsletter has been reporting subjects that we talk about right here on the show.
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unidentified		That's 1-888-727-5505.
		Time, time, time, to see what's become of me.
		While I looked around for my possibilities, I was so high the ground, the round sky is a hazy shade of winter.
		It's a starvation on your plan.
		Down by the sky, the sky feel better than what you've got planned.
		Carriers up in your hand.
		The ground is brown, and the sky is a hazy shade of water.
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
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		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nigh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have so fallen in love with this record all over again.
		Coming up is Richard C. Hoagland, one-time advisor to Walter C. Cronkite, one-time advisor to NASA, winner of the Ingstrom Science Award, man who has a great deal to say about what's going on in space, on Mars, and with the shuttle.
		And all of those things are flat out on the table tonight, so it made sense to reach out to Richard.
unidentified		On the ground, look around, knees are brown, there's a patch of snow on the ground.
unidentified		The patch is snow on the ground.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, The Z Crane Company at 9 tomorrow morning, West Coast time, and get some of these on the way before it gets dark.
		The number is 1-800-522-8863.
		One more time: 1-800-522-8863.
		Oh, yes, and I forgot additional all those other aforementioned qualities.
		movie mogul.
		Here's Richard.
unidentified		How you doing?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		We have turned in the script.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you You're kidding?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy mackerel, Richard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really fast.
unidentified		Well, no, no, no.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		This has been a six year process.
		We have gone through God knows how many iterations of this.
		God and a few other people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I didn't know you were that close to the script.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Richard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can I read it?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Only my best friends and people who know how to keep secrets, and I know you know how to keep secrets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I've kept many secrets.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So, yes, you will get your copy.
		What we're waiting now for is a kind of a formal response from Tom Mount and the good folks at RKO.
		We got a preliminary read from the young executive in charge of development.
		Ever heard of development hell in the movie biz?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're not there, but development has gotten a bad name.
		Anyway, we turned it in, I feel like I'm doing my homework.
		We turned it in on the 19th.
		That was the day that we were supposed to, by contract, have this draft presented to RKO.
		By coincidence, I mean, this really is a coincidence.
		The 19th was the day that Mars Odyssey began its formal science operations around Mars.
		And I just realized that, you know, about 10 minutes ago.
		So we turned in the script, and I've got all the little bells and whistles in it that I wanted, most of them.
		And now we're waiting, as I said, for this response back from Tom and his colleagues.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't care about them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to read it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, you will.
		You will.
		But if we're going to change some things, I'd rather that we're all on the same page.
		And, you know, studios do have power.
		That's where the money comes from.
		So by contract, we have to have them review it first.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you probably, all right, then you probably end up with Martian sex.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You know me better than that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just telling you what.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		No, because there are some things that as we finish this draft, I actually thought at 3 o'clock in the morning, oh, damn it, I wanted to get that in.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So as part of this next round of discussion, which of course is what the budgeting and the stars are all based on, you know, we actually do a serious now budget profile.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who do you think is going to be the star?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know I'm asking impossible questions.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, obviously I couldn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You must have a wish list.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		We have a wish list, and what's really interesting, everybody, folks out there, is that the wish list includes a lot of people that you know who are household words, household names.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, gee, you gave us a lot there.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, these are going to be top people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would have expected that.
		Let's see.
		Let's see.
		Charlie Sheen.
		Is he on your list?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I think he's busy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's busy.
		All right.
		Well, anyway, look, there's a lot of important stuff to talk about.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		We will definitely get a copy, and I will look forward to your comments and feedback and all that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
		All right, good, good, good.
		All right.
		And now, we launched the space shuttle.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Last night, I was up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was watching headline news, as I said in my opening.
		You know, launching it 22 after.
		And here they show the ignition, you know.
		And says we'll be right back to cover it.
		And they cut the commercial as the thing is igniting.
		And when they get back, they have to go to tape.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I can see you're not on Dish.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You're not on the Dish Network, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, yes, I am.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, because you can get an assault direct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know that, but I happened to be watching, it caught me by surprise.
		I was watching headline news.
		I just thought, it's igniting and they're going to commercial.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yes, great news since.
		Anyway, no, it was absolutely spectacular.
		And what was so incredible, it climbed out just at dawn out of the Cape.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it was awesome.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And there was this light cloud cover.
		And, you know, this is a liquid fuel, three main engines, hydrogen, oxygen, as you said a moment ago.
		But there are two huge solid rocket boosters on both sides of the main tank.
		And they produce an incredible flame.
		And as this thing climbed up, you had this dark plume blocking sunlight because it's basically aluminum particulate stuff.
		The same kind of stuff that's in the chemtrails.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We were going to get to chemtrails later.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And then it climbed up through the clouds, and it lit up the clouds and lit up the whole Cape.
		And, I mean, it was the most incredibly beautiful launch I have seen in a long, long time.
		And I was fortunate enough, you know, to see most of the Saturn Vs live and the first shuttle launch from the Cape by actually being there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The ones I would like to have attended would have been the Saturn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There must have been nothing in the entire world, in all the world experience, you know, that could compare to that.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It was incomparable.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The low-frequency sound, the infrasound, the sound you don't hear, but you feel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was the frequency?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard, what was the thrust developed by the Saturn V?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		7.5 million pounds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		7.5 million pounds of thrust.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		About twice the shuttle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I really would have enjoyed being at Walter.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The first time we actually watched a launch, Walter got scared because they had built these big glass cubes sitting 3.5 miles from the launch pad with these huge windows so everybody could have a good view.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And the sound was so loud that we thought that the windows were going to shake loose from the frames and fall down on Cronkite and the whole assembled crew.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But they apparently had designed them correctly.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		They just made it.
		And then on subsequent launches, they did a lot of, brought engineers in and building contractors and they beefed them up a lot because the window was vibrating back and forth so much from this low frequency sound.
		You could feel it in your chest.
		You didn't hear it.
		You felt it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, those were the days.
		It took you.
		Yeah, those were the days.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Those were the days.
		Anyway, last night was a kind of a taste of that.
		And I watched them climb into orbit.
		And then, as you know, today they announced a few hours after launch that they had a little bit of a problem, which is more than a little bit of a problem.
		They're kind of downplaying this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, what is it?
		They said cooling system, Richard.
		What is it?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay, if you've ever looked at the shuttle as it comes back, it looks like an airplane.
		It's got wings, it's got a tail, it's got a fuselage, and it's got the cockpit With windows.
		In space, those big doors, 65 feet long, on the upper part of the shuttle from behind the cockpit to just in front of the tail, open up.
		They're called clamshell doors because they open up like two huge clamshells.
		And on the inside of those doors is a polished mirror surface.
		The problem in space is not that you get too cold.
		It's that you get too hot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I feel.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So what they have to do is they have to pump coolant through those mirror doors open to space to radiate the heat generated by the electronics and the crew in the shuttle, otherwise they would die of heat frustration.
		And what's happened is that the Freon loop in one of the doors is not working.
		And so they only have half the heat rejection capacity.
		It's like living out there, as you do in Perrump, in the middle of the summer in July, with a temperature outside 115, and your air conditioner, you know, you've got maybe two or three, and you lose two of them.
		You've got one left.
		Or trying to broadcast from a studio where you're supposed to keep the electronics nice and chilly, and you lose your air conditioners.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have a lot of air conditioners for that.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Well, that's their problem.
		And it is so serious that if they can't find out a way to fix it, and it may be a broken line, because remember, this was Columbia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Question.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It had not been flying for two and a half years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was refurbished.
		Question.
		What's their condition now, do you imagine?
		In other words, with half of it gone, are they at optimal temperature or are they compromised already?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're already compromised.
		And it's like what you normally see on Star Trek, where there's a main problem in engineering and they shut down everything but environmental controls.
		To do the spacewalks, the five spacewalks, and to do the full-up mission for the 11 days to refurbish Hubble, they will need both radiators in good shape with the coolant flowing through them because there's an awful lot of heat generated by a active shuttle mission.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How's the temperature in there now?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, they've obviously turned off equipment so that the temperature is fine.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But in other words, you could sit up there in space for 11 days.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They couldn't do anything.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So that's the constraint.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And because it may have been vibration from the launch that broke a pipe, there's no way they can fix that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was going to be my next question.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		In other words, there's no real way they can get at that in a spacesuit, because if it's inside those mirrored sides of the clamshell doors, then it means that it's already evaporated into space.
		It's gone.
		It's like losing the Freon.
		It's just Freon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This was a mission, ostensibly, I heard, to repair the Hubble.
		Oh, yes.
		Now, they had done a Hubble mission not very long ago.
		What's going on with the Hubble that they had to go back up again?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, this was the other part of that mission that was supposed to be carried out.
		That's why they call it 3B as opposed to 3A.
		3A was the emergency of maybe about a year ago where they had to replace some gyros and some other things.
		This mission was supposed to take place now and be mission 3, the third Hubble replacement mission for gear.
		They're basically swapping out old equipment and putting in brand new instruments, and some of them are really cool, like the advanced camera for surveys.
		It's going to make Hubble ten times better.
		The pictures are going to be 10 times better than we've been seeing, and we've been seeing some amazing pictures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so this shuttle mission then is critical for Hubble.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		May be compromised.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Another compromise, and they may be coming home as early as Sunday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But in a nutshell, they could stay in space safely for the allotted period of time, but they couldn't do their job.
unidentified		That's the problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's no point in the risk.
		I'm sure they will decide.
		And the appropriate thing to do is bring them back.
		Can't fix it.
		Bring them back.
		So that's what they'll do.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And the reason there's a problem on this shuttle is, remember, this is Columbia.
		This is the oldest shuttle in the fleet.
		It has not flown in space for two years almost.
		It was being refurbished in the shop.
		And they put a whole bunch of new systems in.
		And obviously, in that refurbishment, something happened.
		And it wasn't caught by quality control.
		And I'm betting that it was a mechanical plumbing problem.
		When you launch a shuttle, remember we talked about the infrasound that vibrates you on the ground?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		In the shuttle, it's deafening.
		You could actually see in some of the launch footage this afternoon that they downlinked from the shuttle, when they taped during ascent, you could see them sitting in their couches.
		And I mean, these couches are massive, bolted structures to the framework of the shuttle itself, and they're vibrating back and forth by as much as two or three inches.
		That's the amount of power and the amount of vibration that's shaking everything in that spacecraft.
		That's why they call them space-rated systems.
		It's not so much what happens when you're in orbit.
		The problem is getting there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard, question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This 11-day mission, had it gone okay?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And it still might.
		We don't know all the answers.
		The engineers, I'm sure, are working overtime tonight.
		There is backup coolant.
		They may be able to close valves in the inhabited part of the shuttle, you know, the mid-deck or the cabin.
		And, you know, the brake may not be out by the radiators.
		It may be somewhere where they can get access to it and switch from one feed to another.
		And, I mean, I do not know the engineering that well, so we'll just have to wait and see.
		The fact that they're going to have meetings all night indicates to me that they think they've got a possible fix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're going to work on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're going to work on it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Now that when they work on it, we know they can come up with some pretty miraculous fixes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would an 11-day mission for the shuttle normally cost us?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, it doesn't matter how long.
		It's just getting there.
		Getting the shuttle into orbit is you have paid your money.
		So whether you spend one day or 11 days in the middle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any idea how much?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, it's a good half a billion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Every time we launch?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Every time we launch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Half a billion dollars.
unidentified		Yep.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		$500 million each time.
		Wow.
		So they're going to be probably looking real hard at what went wrong.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, obviously.
		And if they can possibly fix it, as I said, they may have backup coolant on board.
		I mean, it's like having antibrease in the desert or water.
		If your radiator boils over, you want spare water so you can get limp home.
		They may have thought of this as a contingency because it's a mechanical system.
		It could break.
		They might have to refill it.
		If they could find the leak and plug it, then it's like filling your radiator.
		But the question is, where is the leak?
		Is it inside or outside?
		Because they get to it in spacesuits.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard, we're building a new space station.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The shuttle is pretty old stuff now.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		25 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Shouldn't we be building the next gen?
		What is the next generation, and where is it?
		Where is it being developed or what?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was supposed to be the X33 Kum X34, the single stage to orbit.
		And NASA canceled it a couple years ago because the technology just isn't there yet.
		You need boosters and staging and all that to get a decent amount of mass into orbit, even using liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but that was just a go-to-orbit and come back craft, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But that's the hard part.
		Remember Robert Heinlein?
		Once you're in orbit, you're halfway to anywhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Halfway to anywhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the X, whatever it is, could go to the moon?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, with refueling, you could have, you know, put...
		That's the hard part because you can't use the really efficient technologies.
		For instance, you know, there is hell to pay if you try to use nuclear power to go from Earth's surface to Earth orbit for a whole bunch of very valid reasons, environmental and other.
		You don't want to use the incredible energy of a nuclear power source to get you that first step.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I can see that.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But in space, nuclear power, as we said a few shows ago, is deroguer.
		I mean, the sun puts out so much more radiation than man-made nuclear sources that there is no problem.
		The problem is getting the nukes into orbit, because you always have the potential for an accident that would rain on your parade very, very badly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which doesn't properly describe to people what would really happen.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, if you had a catastrophic explosion during launch and you had a nuclear reactor, the fear is that you would wind up spreading nuclear material over fixed states.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, it's a pretty safe bet, isn't it?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Depends on how it's built.
		I mean, we have built things which can survive incredible catastrophes, all right, and keep on ticking.
		3,000 Gs, things like that.
		Fire, you know, 2,000-degree temperatures.
		During the Apollo flights, they carried not nuclear reactors, but these SNAP devices, these solid-state nuclear RTGs, they're called.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but to some degree, a big reactor would be a roll of the dice to go to orbit.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It would be something you would probably want to take up in pieces and assemble in orbit.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		In other words, the criticality of a reactor is putting it all in one place.
unidentified		Sure.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So if you divided it up and built it in space, that would be the way you'd get around the safety problems in the environmental, which are very, very germane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, as I said, you want to be real sure it doesn't deorbit somehow.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, if it's going to the moon or going to Mars, the odds are infinitesimal it would deorbit.
		And anything in a high Earth orbit above several hundred miles, we know predictably is going to stay there for hundreds of years.
		And it's easy to keep things in orbit.
		It's trivial to keep them in orbit.
		The hard part is getting them there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But keeping something in a lower Earth orbit is more fuel costly?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're closer to more gravity applies to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're being closer to that.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And there's air friction.
		Remember, there's a little atmosphere even at the altitude of the shuttle and the space station.
		That's why when the shuttle goes and visits the space station, part of its mission always is to do an orbit burn that boosts the altitude with the excess fuel that it carries up.
		So the station goes up a few miles higher.
		And so it's constantly going up and then coasting down against air friction.
		And the next mission boosts it up again.
		So it's a continual pogo stick, kind of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, are we just going to keep using the shuttle, or are we going to get something else?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, that depends on budget.
		That depends on vision.
		That depends on what the American people really want.
		Do Americans really want a space program?
		I mean, a real space program?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a very good question.
		That's right, Richard.
		I'm not sure.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I'm not either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		After 30 years of marking time and doing almost nothing, when you look at the scope of things we wanted to do, do we really want to do this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, good question.
		Hold on, Richard.
		We're at the top of the hour already.
		It is a very good question.
		One that maybe all of you ought to answer trying to answer.
		That's a good question for all of you.
		Do you really want, do you want to spend a lot of money on space?
		Do you want to go to Mars?
		Do you want to start moving?
		Or do you want to stay right here for now and pay attention to home?
		That's an awfully good question.
		The After Dark Newsletter has been reporting the subject that we talk about right here on the show.

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