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Feb. 7, 2002 - Art Bell

02:44:05

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Graham Hancock - Ancient Underwater Ruins

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01:06:24

graham hancock

01:01:41

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be across all 24 time zones covered by this globe.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		And this is Coast to Coast AM.
		Well, I've got so much to tell you about.
		There's so much to get to here that I'm not sure where to start.
		Last night, obviously we weren't here, and we had a repeat of why.
		I'm going to tell you why.
		The night before, we had Dr. Edward Tenner as a guest, and he wrote a book called Why Things Bite Backed, Technology and the Revenge of Unintended Consequences, which is an incredible topic.
		Now, it's almost too much for even me, and I deal with this kind of stuff all the time.
		Here's the best non-technical explanation I can give you.
		Here's what happened on that night.
		Dr. Tenner's telephone lines were not tenable.
		Sorry, Dr. Tenner.
		They were not tenable.
		They kept fading into nothingness, and we had some bizarre noise, high-frequency type noise on the phone lines that was getting worse and worse and worse and noisier and noisier and noisier.
		And it did throughout the night.
		Now, there are two things.
		Of course, we terminated the interview with Dr. Tenner, it not being tenable, and we'll have to reschedule that.
unidentified		But here we are talking about this topic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And a careful investigation, technical investigation with the telephone company involved.
		You know, they were looking at the lines and saying, it's not on our end, you know, it's on your end, as they usually do.
		So we suppose, okay, it might be on our end.
		So we use a telephone system here to put people, all of you, on the air and the guest and everything else called a Gentner phone system.
		And we had to suspect either the phone lines themselves, bearing in mind, there had just been a bizarre accident just down the street here in front of Nevada, in the street that I'm just off of.
		And two cops visiting from Arizona plowed into a phone pole doing, they're still trying to figure out how much, you know, like 80 miles an hour, something like that.
		Anyway, the phone pole came down like, you know, that was just down the street.
		So you've got to suspect a little bit the possibility of phone line troubles, right?
		Nevertheless, to be on the safe side, the network immediately shipped off a Gentner unit, a second Gentner unit, to me, which is now on standby, sitting here next to me and on standby.
		The weird part is that as of last night, after 10 o'clock when the show would have been on, I was sitting here testing and testing and testing this Gentler, trying to figure out what's going on with it.
		And the trouble simply quit.
		The trouble quit.
		And so I sat here having dialogue aligned myself, listening with a pot all the way up as loud as I could, listening for this horrible noise.
		And it never came back.
		And then I listened today again.
		I've been paying very strict attention to this, as you might imagine.
		And the noise didn't come back.
		So now we're thinking, hmm, do we replace the beginner, you know, which I'm capable of doing, I can replace it here in about a half hour, or not?
		Well, problem is suddenly whatever in the hell was wrong is not wrong anymore, and we're liable to cause more unintended consequences by replacing something that's working.
		You know, they say you never fix anything if it's working, right?
		So it's working, but will it stay working?
		Now, all of this, as I'm doing a show on why things bite back, technology and the revenge of unintended consequences, I'm telling you, it has me thinking.
		It really has me thinking about whether a lot of times the things that I talk about and mentally contemplate on this program, I refer you to last night's program, the things that I contemplate on this program, maybe in some way the mass mind, all of you, or even my mind, caused whatever happened the night before last to happen.
		I swear, I'm giving it very careful consideration because nothing else makes very much sense.
		I sometimes, I'm really coming to believe that things I talk about become manifested around me either because all of us are thinking about it or because I am.
		But more likely, all of us, as we did the experiments we did, my guess would be all of us, when we get our minds going on something like this, then I'll be damned if it doesn't happen, if it isn't caused.
		And I'm not rejecting that scenario as being responsible for what happened the night before last.
		I don't know.
		It's a strange world we live in, folks.
		Listen, I've got something really pretty funny or weird.
		Really, it is very funny to watch.
		It's kind of pathetic.
		It's called the Taliban Olympics.
		And it's a video, and it's on my website right now, arpel.com, under what's new.
		Just click on video, Taliban Olympics, and then click on MPEG video.
		You're going to have to have a pretty good line.
		It's a two-meg file or something.
		But this announcer is like a big Olympic outside setting.
		And this announcer is announcing what's about to happen.
		You know, it's like it's an Olympic event of some kind.
		And then the camera pans up to the top of this gigantic cliff, you know.
		And here's this guy getting ready to do a perfect Olympic dive, you know, into water.
		Only there's no water.
		And he preps at the top and does a perfect, you know, he does his head both ways, kind of correcting his muscles, puts his hands up and does a swan dive off this cliff to hundreds of feet below.
		And like a sack of wet cement, he hits the ground.
		There's no water.
		He has just dived into the ground.
		And it's obviously Afghanistani.
		We don't know where it comes from, but it's pretty, pretty, you know, it's funny or pathetic or we can't speak the language, so we don't know what's being said.
		Maybe some of you can help out there, but it's pretty crazy.
		Really crazy, actually.
		Teleman Olympics.
		And there are several other things we're going to try to get by the bottom of the hour that have been sent to me this evening.
		One orb photo, you're not going to believe.
		There are orbs, and there are orbs.
unidentified		Wait till you see this orb.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so what's going on in the world?
		The Bush administration now plans to apply legal protections under the 1949 Geneva Convention to captured Taliban soldiers.
		Meanwhile, a plane carrying 28 detainees from the war in Afghanistan landed today at the naval base, so the numbers there are growing.
		They will now be protected under the Geneva Convention.
		A skeptical congressional subcommittee was told by former Enron Chief Executive Jeffrey Skilling today that he knew of nothing improper about the complex web of partnerships that doomed the company.
		The ensuing fallout, draining the savings of millions of investors and employees, just, you know, whatever you had gone.
		So this continues to be a gigantic story.
		And there is going to be so much more to hear.
		The Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, again said today that he thinks an eventual Palestinian state probably a pretty good idea.
		President of the U.S. agreeing.
		And there was an incident on a UAL, United Airlines flight from Miami to Buenos Aires.
		And apparently a passenger, for whatever unknown reason, tried to force his way into the cockpit.
		Not a good thing to do these days.
		You're not going to be regarded very well if you try to push your way into a cockpit door, and he was not.
		The co-pilot had an axe.
		I guess they have an axe, God knows what for, maybe to control fires or something.
unidentified		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In a cockpit, you wouldn't think you'd use an axe.
		But he had an axe somehow, and he took the axe and whacked the guy.
		It was about a 10-minute struggle, but the FBI has him.
		Russia angrily has denounced a CIA report, they never like our CIA reports, that questions the Kremlin's willingness and ability to prevent the spread of dangerous technology, a sign of renewed tension following a sharp improvement in relations in the wake of the September 11th attacks.
		Things had been better with Russia, but they're pretty angry that we are saying they're not doing a whole lot to protect the world from spreading weapons of mass destruction.
		if you will stay right there i have All right, I read this later in the show on the night of the unexpected bewildering consequences, so I want to read this again.
		This is a very, very interesting article, and I'm not sure now how we're going to follow up on this.
		This was translated from a newspaper in South America from Russia.
		And I'll try and tell you a little more about that if I can.
		But here it is.
		Russia has its own time machine.
		Our scientists claim include having built a machine that enables visits to the past.
		Moscow, ANSA, that's Alpha Nora Sugar Alpha News Service.
		In the third millennium Russia, now fully converted to capitalism and market economy, there are still those who would like to return to the old USSR.
		A time machine, completely made in Russia, has been built for these irrepressible nostalgics, according to the devices of Venner, according to the Russian engineer Vladimir Serbanov.
		The machine popularized in H.G. Wells' a novel, far from being a literary creation, is in fact a scientific endeavor of its own, although still in its infancy.
		In fact, notes the scientists, those who attempt to return to the past to keep certain historical events from occurring, for example, collapse of the Soviet Union, would fail in the attempt and would run the risk of not being able to return to the future, his opinion, I suppose.
		A Servanov machine Is a remarkable machine that he claims is now taking people, not people, but things, just a few moments into the past.
		Just a few moments into the past.
		Within it are rotating magnetic fields, strong rotating electromagnetic fields, that either increase or decrease the flow of time.
		And they have proven this by having high-precision time pieces inside.
		The capsule is about two meters in diameter, very similar to Yuri Gagarin's first Vostok spacecraft.
		I mean, they're saying they've got a time machine, folks.
		Now, this could be a bogus story.
		You know, we have no way of knowing.
		Scott Korales is the one who translated the story.
		And we've contacted him, and he just, you know, he simply doesn't know, of course.
		He just did the translation, doesn't know any more about it.
		And I'm not sure how we're going to find out more about this story, but I am going to try.
		What if Russia has a time machine?
		Not impossible.
		The Russians are pretty good when it comes to this kind of thing.
		So I'm going to watch that story closely.
		I don't know how I'm going to follow up, but I'm going to really try.
		Here is another big article about the resurgent sun.
		You know, we thought the solar peak had passed, but it hasn't.
		The sun is suddenly going berserk for a second time or a second peak in this 11-year period, and it is indeed puzzling scientists.
		So scientists are watching our sun right now very carefully and are probably a little bit nervous about what it's doing and why is it going berserk when it should be on the downside of the cycle.
		Instead, it's going higher than ever.
		And while we're on the subject of the sun, here's an interesting article from London.
		Deaths from skin cancer melanoma have more than quadrupled in men and more than trebled in women over the past 30 years.
		So that's a 400% increase in skin cancer.
		Now, for those of you who doubt, you know, all of these things, the changes we're going through, you might want to really listen closely to this.
		30 years, that's our lifetimes, many of us, right?
		Skin cancer has quadrupled in men and 300% increase in women.
		It was announced today as government medical experts warned of the dangers of the sun.
		The rise in package holidays and ignorance over the potentially fatal effects of sunlight is the major cause of the massive increase in melanoma.
		Now, you know, it's the most deadly form of skin cancer.
		I just, I don't think I believe this.
		When I was a kid, a sunburn was just something to laugh at, you know.
		If you went to the beach and did a bunch of surfing, as we did in Rhode Island, North Carolina, and Florida, when I was a kid, why, you know, you just get a sunburn, that's just part of going to the beach.
unidentified		Hey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I really argue with this report.
		I mean, you think about it a little bit, for skin cancers to be increasing this much, in my generation, we became aware of the dangers of too much sun.
		And, you know, along came sunscreens and all the rest of it.
		And now we have a 400% increase for men and a 300% increase for women.
		Now, I've just got this feeling there's something we don't quite fully understand going on here that has a definite relationship, obviously, to our son.
		There are about 40,000 people diagnosed with skin cancer each year in the United Kingdom, and 2,000 of those die.
		And that's the UK, I might add, where they don't quite have the weather that we have here, say, in the desert.
		Most days, you know, London days, more times than not, are, frankly, pretty dreary.
		Clouds, drizzle, rain, pretty common stuff in London, not a lot of sun.
		So what do you suppose has happened here?
		That's no trivial thing.
		A 400% increase for men and a 300% increase for women.
		All of this, as we get stories of the sun going rather berserk up there right now.
		Just something to sort of ponder.
		When I get back, I've got a couple of more things for you, and then we'll do open lines to the top of the hour tonight at the top of the hour, all the way from drizzly Great Britain.
		I don't know what the weather is, really.
		It's Graham Hancock.
		It's been a long time since we've talked to Graham about the pyramids and such.
		We'll do that tonight.
		technology allowing?
unidentified		Ha, ha, ha, ha.
		It's night.
		My body's weak.
		I'm on the run.
		No time to sleep.
		I've got to rise.
		I'd like to win.
		To be free again.
		And I've got such a long way to go.
		We're looking to the phone.
		So I ride like the wind.
		So
		Sweet dreams are made of end.
		Whoever minds who deserve me.
		I travel the world and seven seeds.
		Everybody is looking for something.
		Some of them want to use you.
		Some of them want to get used by you.
		Some of them want to abuse you.
		Some of them want to be abused.
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the Wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's been a long time since I've talked to Graham Hancock, and I'm looking very much forward to that.
		Coming up at the top of the hour, open lines just around the corner.
		I have just one more little thing for you.
		Oh, by the way, it's an orb photograph now on my website.
		You've got to see.
		And I see the pixel people are already diving in.
		That's fine.
		We'll see what you believe, but it's one of the better orb photos, one of the weirder ones I've ever seen.
		Now, I've seen hundreds and hundreds of orb photos.
		the mall check this one out brand new on the website right now All right.
		Check this out.
		I really would like your opinion on this.
		Maybe you've got one, maybe you don't.
		But there are a lot of, you know, I've had a lot of animal communicators on the program.
		I've never been fully satisfied.
		I've had the best to have done some really good shows, actually, lately on communication with animals and what they are and all the rest of it.
		Maybe you might want to consider this one, all right?
		It's called The Cat That Came Back from Hibbing.
		It's one of these stories you've heard before.
		Skittles finds his way from Wisconsin Dills to Hibbing home.
		What does it take for a lost cat named Skittles to find his way through 353 miles of rough terrain, trekking three miles a day in the dead of winter with wild animals and cars bearing down on him like an angry dog let off its leash?
		Answer, about 140 days.
		No catnip, no litterbox, no meow mix, just the open road and an unflinching desire to be with his family.
		On January 14th, Skittles, an affectionate two-year-old orange tabby cat, strolled up to Charmin Sampson's home in Lake Kelly.
		Her son, Jason, not believing his eyes, carried him into the house where the weary feline ate some food, collapsed into the mother of all catnaps.
		It was the first time the Sampsons had seen a Skittles since Labor Day in the Wisconsin Dells area of southern Wisconsin.
		I knew it was Skittles, said Jason 16.
		The cat is orange, white paws, got a look to him, a unique look.
		Jason and his mom worked at a water park in Wisconsin-Dells over the summer, living in a trailer nearby with Skittles and their other cats.
		Cats would frolic in nearby woods when it came time to go home.
		After the summer tourist season, Skittles was, of course, missing.
		With school beginning the next day, they had to leave him behind.
		We called him and called him, Jason said.
		We just couldn't find him.
		Well, when Charmin, a college student studying computer software programming, came home from a day of classes at Himming Community College, her first thought was that her son had adopted another stray, but no, no, no.
		She says, I yelled, why is that cat here?
		He explained, I told him, no more cats, but he said, no, mom, it's Skittles.
		Sure enough, a closer inspection revealed the dinghy cat with callous paws and protruding ribs was a neutered male that matched Skittles coloring flawlessly.
		You could tell he was hungry, ate some food, then laid down next to me and slept.
		Two weeks later, Skittles, now is back to his old routine, plays with the other family cats.
		He's still resting up.
		You know, this was a serious thing, but he purrs and snuggles.
		And to this day, no one knows how Skittles made it home.
		Now, you can either believe or disbelieve this story.
		I choose to certainly believe it.
		It was in the Daily Tribune in that area.
		Not sure of the town.
		And, you know, if you don't believe this one, then believe all the others.
		The animals have...
		Some incredible ability, some sense that we don't begin to have.
		How could they possibly?
		How could a cat possibly or a dog make it over hundreds and hundreds of miles and even have the slightest sense of where to go?
		The answer is it of course couldn't.
		But it did.
		So animals have something we really don't know about, and we should be doing a lot more investigation of this phenomena than we are.
		It means a lot.
		I don't know what, but I have a strong sense that it means a great deal when we finally discover what it is.
		All right.
		Into the night.
		First time call our line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, this is Rose from the Reno area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Rose.
unidentified		I'm talking about the little Sondheim radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
unidentified		When I was down in Shoshone...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I love mine.
		I got mine in my hand.
		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And anyway, I was in Shoshone.
		Yes.
		The first, second, and the third was on a Sunday night, and I was going to leave there the next morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's Shoshone, Nevada, folks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Yes.
		And I was listening to my little radio.
		We had been picking up first the Indian station in New Mexico.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, very strong.
unidentified		And then I tried picking up KOH again.
unidentified		And it had been coming in good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they've bombed down here.
unidentified		And all of a sudden, all I got was static.
		And I kept trying, you know, all through the, you know, kept scanning the radio.
		And then a couple hours later, I picked up KFDK in Sacramento.
		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I. And that was strong.
		If you will listen on the radio, I will tell you what happened to you.
		It's simple.
		As I said, during a commercial, radio waves are controlled at night on those frequencies by the state of our ionosphere, that layer around Earth that bounces signals back.
		And the ionosphere, in turn, is controlled to a great extent by what goes on on the Sun.
		And when there are flares on the Sun, and there was one, for a period of time, all radio communications at times will disappear.
		All propagation, all the ability of radio stations, which normally bounce readily off the ionosphere, instead become absorbed by the ionosphere because of the charged particles coming from the sun, and everything gets absorbed.
		Nothing bounces back to Earth.
		And so that can happen for a period of hours.
		And it's been happening a lot lately, and it's because of the sun.
		A wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		Thank you for taking my call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're very welcome.
unidentified		My heart is just pounding out of my chest because I'm so nervous, so please forgive me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, just relax.
unidentified		By the way, my mom says you have a wonderful nighttime voice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, thank you.
unidentified		I wanted to tell you about my experience with my four and a half-year-old.
		I'll just cut to the chase real quick and tell you that he saw my third eye.
		And this happened the night before I had been praying because I've got some health problems and praying to the archangels, you know, Michael, Raphael, Gabriel, and Uriel.
		And the next morning, I had just been in deep prayer that whole night in meditation.
		And so the morning I was in kind of a twilight between awake and asleep.
		And I was just in that medium state there, that twilight stone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That twilight zone.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And all of a sudden, I kid you not, I swear, I heard a big, huge, loud kiss.
		I couldn't believe it.
		And then it was just amazing.
		I never heard anything so loud.
		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then what?
unidentified		Then, through my closed eyelids, I saw like somebody was turning on a really, really intense light, or bright light in the room.
		So I opened up my eyes to see what that could possibly be from because I was really surprised.
		There's nothing in my room that could be that bright.
		So I opened up my eyes, and it was not a light from anywhere, because there was just the morning light, but nothing intense like that.
		So then later on, maybe about 20 minutes later, my son came in the room because he always does, hops in bed, and we lay together, snuggle, and he looked at me and seriously said, and I never have talked to him about this ever before.
		He looked at me and seriously said, I see your third eye.
		And I just was like a deer in headlights.
		I was so stunned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old is your son?
unidentified		He's four and a half.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How would your son know about the concept of a third eye?
unidentified		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, he just wouldn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you talk to him about the third eye?
unidentified		No, I don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he just came out of nowhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He said, I saw your third eye.
unidentified		And he said it to me again, and I didn't say anything.
		I thought, well, maybe he's seeing something.
		And then he said it to me a third time.
		And I was just like shocked.
		I was so shocked, I couldn't even say anything.
		I didn't even think to look and pop up and look in the mirror.
		I was just shocked.
		I was like a Darren Headlife.
		And then it took me a whole day to process the whole thing because I couldn't believe it.
		And I told my husband about it, and we were sitting at the dinner table with our son, and he started asking Gabriel things I couldn't even think to ask him, because I was so struck.
		He said, well, what color was it?
		And he said, it was just like my other two eyes.
		And where was it?
		Oh, and at the time that that was happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And where was it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, where?
unidentified		Yeah, at the time that that happened to me, he said he was trying to point, and he was, at the time, we were in back together, he was pointing and trying to touch right between my eyes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your eyes.
unidentified		As if he was trying to touch what he was seeing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty cool.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe your son is the heir apparent to John Edward, you know, the crossing over guy.
		Maybe he's a budding young psychic who will be next in line to be the greatest.
		Who knows?
		Sees mom's third eye.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, sir.
unidentified		This is Maul Reese calling from St. Louis, listening to the Big 550.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you bet.
unidentified		Hey, I have a great animal communicator for you.
		I don't know if you've had him as a guest yet.
		His name is Bill Northern.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
		But I'm after really somebody really good.
		really really really want to know what animals think and uh...
		what what they're all about are you know this is It really is.
		Animals are so amazing.
		People don't want to study it because they don't want to think about animals having intelligence and souls and all the rest of it.
unidentified		Well, I think you will be very, very pleased with this guest, Bill Northern.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Put me in contact with him.
unidentified		I'll send you an email.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And my question I really wanted to get to, you seem like a pretty knowledgeable guy.
		Hmm.
		I was wanting to ask you, how does...
		Congress has to declare.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Legally, right.
unidentified		Congress has to declare war.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're not constitutionally at war with them.
		How about that?
		Yeah, right.
unidentified		That's what I was wondering.
unidentified		I was pretty sure we weren't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the other hand, they're calling it a war, not a police action.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I guess in today's modern world, you can have wars that aren't constitutional.
unidentified		I don't know how that happens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What happens because they say it?
		Yeah, exactly.
		We are at war, right?
unidentified		Pretty much the point I'm trying to get at here is they say we're at war, but we're not officially at war against Afghanistan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I'm not overly disturbed by it.
		I mean, look what they did to us.
		So, as far as I'm concerned, screw them.
		You know, they knocked down two of our big buildings.
		It's not just an isolated dude or dudes who did this.
		It's virtually a criminal element that was running an entire country.
		So we're going over there and we're kicking their asses, and I think it's entirely proper.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		The only thing I'm just a little confused on is if it's not an actually declared war, is I was going to get to the John Walker Lynn or...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I was just wondering how you try somebody for treason if we're not officially at war.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the answer is you don't.
		And they're holding that option open, but they don't have the proof required.
		Treason is really kind of a weird thing to prove.
		So, you know, what's going to happen to him, whether he would be considered, for example, under the Geneva Convention and how it proceeds against him is going to be really interesting to follow.
		I have no idea.
		But just, you know, as a general rule, a rose by any other name is still a war, and we're still kicking the you-know-what out of him.
		So that's okay.
		I mean, that's what you do as far as I'm concerned.
		We're doing the right thing.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Hello?
		Hello.
		Yes, yes, you have arrived.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, Ert.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
unidentified		This is Mike from Vancouver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Mike.
unidentified		And I think I've got to figure it out about the sun.
unidentified		What's going on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's some figuring.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think?
unidentified		Well, it was a report by Brian Kundal on the photon belt, which we're supposed to enter into in the year 2012.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, coincidentally, the end of the Mayan calendar.
unidentified		Yeah.
		What did they know, eh?
		Well, it's also been stated that we revolve around a central sun, which is in the middle of this photon belt, which it takes us 24,000 years to make one revolution.
		And we go through the belt twice.
		So it fits in with all the dates that you're coming up with, 12,000 years and 10,000 years.
		Yes.
		And it's fitting in perfectly.
		And they say that radiation is going to wipe us out.
		Now, in your Astro-D satellite that was sent up, they had two X-ray detectors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Isn't that interesting?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Although it wouldn't give you very much warning, sir.
		You know, not very much at all, as a matter of fact.
		Our sun was always thought to be an extremely stable star.
		But a few years ago, astronomers began to find other supposedly stable stars that every now and then do a burp.
		Now, in the case of a planet like ours, as far as we are from the sun, if our sun ever were to do one of these burps, that is somewhat of an understated word, it could erase all life down to microbial life, including microbial life, and simply sterilize the planet.
		That actually could happen.
		Very remote chance of that, thank God.
		But scientists, astronomers have seen suns like ours do exactly that.
		Suddenly.
unidentified		Boom!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
		Little thing for the sun, big thing for Earth.
		Well, anyway, the people on it, the Earth would go on just fine.
		But a lot of the Israeli scientists think that's what happened to the dinosaurs.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		I was listening when you were having difficulty with that reception the other night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whatever it was, yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, and it came through fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the air.
		I don't know.
		It grew, sir, it grew worse until by the end of the program.
unidentified		I could tell you were really struggling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, by the end of the program, I would say half the audio was this problem.
		I mean, it was really getting very, very, very bad.
		And the next day, it grew even worse.
		I mean, later that morning we were testing, and we had 70 dV of noise, so you know, 70 dV of noise on those lines.
unidentified		Oh, my goodness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we don't know from where or why or what or anything else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So unintentional.
unidentified		You come across on the air pretty well, so I didn't know if maybe that was a local thing with your phone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we are still trying to figure that out.
unidentified		Very interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate your call, sir.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, very well.
		Interesting in that, I mean, here we are talking about...
		You know, we shouldn't talk much about this tonight, and that's how nervous about it I am.
		Because I don't really want to have a repeat performance.
		Thank you very much.
		Once is enough.
		And if we turn our attention to it, we're liable to cause it.
		Do I really believe that?
		You know, I don't know.
		I'm beginning to believe, I think I'm beginning to believe these things, yes, with the great experiments we have all done.
		I'm very hesitant to repeat.
		I may have just repeated one the other night just by talking about the topic at all, making it the focus of so many minds.
		Again, I referenced last night's show.
		God, this is so interesting.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		This is Joanne from Gresham, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Joanne.
unidentified		I listened to your show a lot, and I want to thank you for all the good information you give us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're very welcome.
unidentified		Also, I would like to know, Maybe I've missed it, but when are you going to talk again with Gordon Michael Scallion?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		That's a good question.
		I should give Gordon a call and arrange something.
unidentified		Yeah, I haven't heard you talk to him.
unidentified		It's been a long time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it's been a while.
		And I would be glad to give Gordon a call or get in touch with him.
		Have him back on the air and have him back.
unidentified		Wonderful.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're very welcome.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Not a lot of time here.
		Hello.
		Going once.
		Going twice.
		Go on.
		Wildcard line.
		You're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm here.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is your name?
unidentified		My name is Walter.
unidentified		I'm calling from Winnipeg.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's up, Walter?
unidentified		Just getting nervous here with a new baby in Winnipeg, Manitoba.
		Listening to you on CGLB.
		And got some trouble with the chemtrail action out here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chemtrail action?
unidentified		Yeah, just a lot of activity here.
		And all my friends are having trouble getting out of bed in the morning.
		I'm just wondering if you know any cure or something I can work with to get back up on my feet again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not on your feet?
unidentified		Well, I try to get on my feet in the morning, but I 12 hours of sleep, and it's hard to get out of bed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		12 hours of sleep, and you can't get out of bed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You blame this on the chemtrails?
unidentified		Well, I know a lot of people within Winnipeg, you know, hundreds of people, and they all have the same problem.
unidentified		It's a slight numbing of the mouth, just a fatigue, and my calf muscles are all cramped up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Calf muscles, my God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you say this is happening all over your city?
unidentified		Yes, it's a constant thing.
unidentified		Every day I get up, you know, I try to get up out of bed anyway to look out my window because I live right, you know, in the city center.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There they are, big X's in the sky.
unidentified		Well, not X's.
unidentified		It's single lines now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, those used to be known as Con Trails.
unidentified		Whether they're chemtrails or not, I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Winnipeg Poos.
		Winnipeg Lazys.
		I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		I'm Mark Bell.
		In the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
		To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing.
		To have all these things in our memories all.
		I need you to help us Yeah!
		Ride, ride, I should soar Take this place off that strip You call me.
		To reach art bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies via 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Certainly is.
		Good morning, everybody.
		Well, the law of unintended consequences continues to strike.
		Graham Hancock is not answering his telephone.
		In Great Britain, he's not answering his phone.
		So what has happened to Graham?
		That's this hour's question now.
		The network talked to him earlier today, and he was all set to go.
		We talked to him earlier in the day, and he was all set.
		You know, he knew a time and all the rest of it.
		Unless there's been some screw-up in the time.
unidentified		Unintended consequences.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so we may be in open lines.
		And if we are, that's fine, too, because there's plenty to talk about.
		But we'll continue to try to get hold of Graham Hancock.
		In the meantime, let us begin with what we've got to get done, and then we'll proceed in either one direction or the other.
		Open lines, find by me.
		All right, having received no flash messages that Graham Hancock has suddenly returned to life, God, I hope he's okay, really.
		You know, that we've managed to get hold of him.
		Actually, he's just not answering his phone.
unidentified		Now, anything could have happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Although, when you have a major interview scheduled like this, you know, for a nationwide show, usually you are there.
		Graham always has been, so I hope he's okay.
		In the meantime, we will proceed with open lines and anything you would like to chat about.
		Heaven knows there certainly is enough to chat about.
		How many of you out there think that focusing on any certain thing, like unintended consequences itself, because merely having millions of you out there focusing on this subject will cause unintended consequences of a severe nature to occur.
		Just like thinking about ghosts or a spirit and mind as separate from the body will cause you to begin to experience things in these realms.
		I'm kind of becoming a believer.
		Again, with last night's program in mind and what the great minds out there can do, although this is such interesting stuff.
		It may well be a power greater than atomic power when fully understood.
		And I wish I had bigger cojones, I'd probably Mess around with this, you know?
		But I just am beginning to be a believer in the law of unintended consequences, and when you mix that up with doing experiments with millions of mines, you really have the formula for Rod Serling.
		West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		Is this Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm the only one here, sir.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
unidentified		Art, I was wondering, you know, with all these sound effects and El Nino and all these other phenomenon, how much consideration has been given that these effects might be caused by the nearing of Nibiro?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, obviously, those who think Nibru might be coming back would say yes.
		Others would say, no, I don't believe in any of that anyway.
		You know, in the tenth planet, I just don't believe in it.
		And so I guess it would depend on what you believe.
		What do you believe?
unidentified		Well, you say you don't believe it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't say that at all.
unidentified		Oh, oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I said it would depend on what you believe.
unidentified		I think there's a strong possibility that if it is coming into our neighborhood, that the gravitational and the magnetic forces could be causing some of these effects.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, at some point, as we had in the interview with Mark Hazelwood, if all of this is true, then astronomers are going to begin to tell us.
		You know, it's going to be an impossible secret to keep, and there'll be a sort of a critical mass point where they simply cannot keep the secret any longer if it is one, and we'll all know.
		Until then, I don't know.
unidentified		Yeah, and, you know, we're nearing the predicted times, I think.
unidentified		And these effects should probably increase, if that is the cause.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the effects are increasing.
		I don't know about the cause, sir.
		I just don't know.
		Maybe that is it.
		Maybe it's something else.
		But the effects of something certainly are on the increase, aren't they?
		First time caller align.
		You're on the air.
		Hello?
unidentified		Yeah, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		Yeah, on the parking garage ghost in Japan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I looked at it a couple weeks ago, and I tried to get it back on, and I can't find it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's there somewhere.
unidentified		Well, I went to where it says it and clicked on, and I see a bunch of ghost pictures, just photos.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess you've got to keep going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what you've got to do.
unidentified		Keep going through all of them?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Just keep going back further and further.
		It's there.
unidentified		Okay, well, I appreciate it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Take care.
		And he refers to the parking lot ghost.
		Actually, not picture, but a video that we had up there.
		And I'm sure it is still there.
		It just gets kind of pushed aside.
		There's so much new stuff on the website.
		It pushes it back further is what happens.
		But you could clearly see an apparition, apparition, excuse me, on the security camera in a parking garage.
		You could see it cross and walk and disappear right through a wall.
		That's what you could see.
		And apparently, by the way, I had several notes on this, and apparently it's Chinese.
		We think it's Chinese now.
		A number of people tried to read the Japanese kanji and didn't have a lot of luck could read some of it.
		Some of the Chinese and Japanese symbols are the same, but they thought it was Chinese.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yeah, Bill, Austin, Texas.
		K-O-B-J-A-M Radio.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Hey, you might tell our friends in Canada that if they try plugging their ears, they'll be able to get out of bed.
unidentified		There's some sort of a 16-decibel low-frequency wave that's probably hitting them, if you remember HARP.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think it's hitting them now?
unidentified		Well, that's what it's supposed to be.
		The indication is there.
		I know it went through us about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, HARP, wait a minute, hold on.
		Well, HAARP, we can hear, we know when HARP is transmitting, sir.
		We can hear it.
		And so are you saying you're hearing HARP transmitting now?
unidentified		No, not right now.
unidentified		About a month ago, it was down here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		Well, there's no way to know except whether it's actually transmitting at any given time.
		And you would think effects, although what do I know about the effects, would be felt while the transmission was being made by somebody on the ground.
		I'll tell you kind of an interesting story.
		It's kind of gross, but it is interesting.
		Maybe you'll look into it yourself.
		I don't know.
		Do you remember the story that I read you?
		I can hear my wife groaning in the other room.
		Do you remember the story I read you about people who wear headphones a lot?
		You know, like I do, like right now.
		I wear them.
		I've worn headphones for a full one-third of my life.
		So they were talking about just people who listen to a lot of music and wear headphones for an hour or so a day.
		These people grow hundreds of times more bacteria in their ears than people who don't use headphones.
		That's what the story said, anyways.
		I thought interesting.
		Here I am wearing headphones and pretty loud, too, I might say, for a third of my life.
		You know, there should be monsters growing in my ears, right?
		So somebody sent me, and actually I got a call about something called an ear candle.
		And I went, oh, come on, ear candle, give me a break.
		Somebody then sent me an email saying, oh, no, no, no, no.
		Ear candles are really interesting.
		You can go to the health food store and get one and try it out.
		And it'll kind of gross you out, Art, but give it a try.
		It's really something.
		And so we did.
		My wife went to a health food store and found some ear candles.
		And these are incredible things.
		And I'm not recommending you do this anytime, anywhere.
		And it's an herbal remedy, you know, and it says so right there, and that you should always consult your physician.
		You know the thing they put you through, right?
		But what it boils down to is you get a plate and you stick this ear candle, which is probably about eight inches long, at least, eight inches long, you light the candle, which burns around the edges only, and you put this thing in your ear, and it acts like a stovepipe, sort of.
		It warms up the, I guess it warms, sends smoke in, warms up the wax in your inner ear, and then it sucks it up.
		Because of the stovepipe effect, it sucks this wax in your ear that has been there for uncounted years.
		I mean, probably has been adding up since you were a little child.
		Now, in my particular case, I ear candled one ear, and then we cut open the candle to look and see what was in there.
		Obviously, I mean, you want to know what came out of my ear, right?
		And so you look down in there, and here's this gigantic, just, I mean, there was so much wax in there.
unidentified		You could have molded a small little wax animal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it was disgusting.
		And along with it came this ear powder.
		I don't exactly know how to describe it.
unidentified		It's like ear powder.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this gigantic gob of wax.
		And you go, oh my God, where could this have come from in my ear?
		And so I tell you today, I have several many decibels better hearing today.
		And so this weird thing really works.
		It burns down to about three inches from your ear.
		Now you've got a plate over your ear, so you know it's not going to burn your ear.
		But you can hear, it's really weird when it's in there.
		You can hear a sizzling and a crackling as this candle burns down.
		It's one of the wildest things that I've ever seen in my entire life.
		And when I tell you that you really don't want to know what's in your inner ear, you believe me.
		I'm telling you, enough to mold little small ear animals from if you wanted to take that goop that came up and make it into something, make it into a little ear horsey or something.
		West of the Rockies, you're on air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		This is Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay.
		Sorry, I just ran out of my room.
		The radio's on in there.
		You're getting stopped on real hard.
		I'm calling from Oregon.
		This is Donna.
		K-R-R-M.
		Just a lot of bleed over of another station totally cut me out.
		Anyway, I've been trying to get a hold of you forever to see if you would have Thunder Striking on again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thunder Striking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you mean the man who...
unidentified		Did the shadow people?
		I've never had any shadow people or any of that kind of thing.
		But I had, when I was younger, I woke up with the cape guy standing by me and couldn't move and couldn't scream.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, what do you mean cape guy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean mothman?
unidentified		The black guy in like a monk's robe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you talking about Mothman?
unidentified		No, no, no, no, no.
		When Thunderstriking was talking about the different pictures that people were sending in, he described the guy in like a monk's robe and a black face.
		You couldn't see a face.
		And he said, well, I can't talk about that one.
		That's a whole nother show.
		It was like a black military project.
		And that's the only thing that, honestly, that I was interested in because I haven't seen Shadow People.
		And I just wanted to see if he could get him back on to do that.
		This was before everything happened with the Twin Towers and all that.
		And I figured, military, maybe you couldn't do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me tell you something.
		Since we opened the subject of the Shadow People, it has never, never stopped.
		Every day I have, every day, ma'am, I have dozens of shadow people stories and emails.
		And I mean dozens.
unidentified		Well, this thing wasn't a shadow person, so I'm really curious to know what it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, but I think they're all sort of from the same neighborhood.
unidentified		Okay, well, he was saying it's a military project, and it was a whole different show, and it was gunning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Thunder Striking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, I remember Thunder Strikes.
		Oh, I see Graham may be at a different telephone number.
		I've been handed a note.
		We'll see if we can get him here at the bottom of the hour.
		First time caller line, you are on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		This is Nathan from Joplin.
		Yes.
		All right.
		I've got a possible proposition that might explain all of these strange things with cancer and whatnot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A possible proposition.
		Well, let's see.
		For 30 years, a 400% increase for men and 300% for women.
		What's your thought?
unidentified		Well, our bodies are affected in ways that we don't even understand.
		Chinese medicine has for hundreds and hundreds of years known that different organs are more active or more delicate at certain points in the day, and it goes in a specific 24-hour cycle, acupuncture and all that.
		Now, you understand that we are electromagnetic, you know, we have electromagnetic energy, and thus we're magnetic bodies, in a sense.
		Yes.
		Well, all smaller electromagnetic bodies, or all, you know, magnetic bodies, they're always governed by larger ones.
		There's the lunar cycle that, you know, women and, well, you know what I'm talking about there, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're mixing things up here a little bit and probably getting off into an area that will just get you in trouble for no reason when you're trying to make a bigger point.
		So you want to reorient yourself here.
		We're all electromagnetic beings, sir.
		I agree with that.
		Electrical impulses flow through our body into our brains and all the rest of it.
		So anybody who doesn't think we're affected by the earth and the sun and all of the things around us are out of their minds.
		Simple as that.
unidentified		Okay, well, you know, I totally agree.
		You're talking about the cat earlier finding its way home.
		Yes.
		Carrier pigeons actually find their way to wherever they're going by.
		Their brain actually senses the electromagnetic lines in the earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that may be.
		That's kind of a theory, and we're not altogether sure that's true.
		It may well be true.
		But it does not answer how an animal Electromagnetic lines or not.
		I mean, that certainly answers how a migratory animal might migrate, right?
		But it does not answer how an animal finds an owner hundreds or thousands of miles away.
		It would have absolutely no way whatsoever of understanding where that owner is or has moved to abruptly.
		And yet these animals find their way back to their owners.
		Now, clearly, something else is at play here.
		Not just magnetic lines on the earth, but something really far from our understanding as human beings is going on.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		You were talking on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, please.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Oh, you're talking about animal communicators, but you ever talk about animals who communicate?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you couldn't have animal communicators without animals that communicate, right?
unidentified		Well, I've had several animals that communicated very clearly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of animals?
unidentified		A beagle hound.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A big old hound?
unidentified		A beagle hound.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, a beagle hound.
		All right.
		What did your beagle hound communicate to you?
unidentified		She'd take off, and I'd call her, and she'd stop in the middle of the street, look over her shoulder, and put her tail right straight up in the air and give you the freeway salute.
		No.
		Oh, yes.
		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you're implying that your dog would understand what that salute means.
unidentified		Well, you've got it across.
		Not just one.
		I've got several people presented.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did they all give you the same salute?
		Yes.
		All right.
		Well, I'm not going there.
		But you might want to, I don't know, improve your animal communication skill.
		I mean, as obviously as something you're doing wrong.
		if they're really doing that.
unidentified		The Santa Barbara fool Don't see trying hard To be free with the game Graham Hancock, next, maybe.
		Watching her, she must have smile for his misbelic care.
		Never coming near what you wanted to say.
		Only to realize it never really was.
		She had a place in his life.
		She had a place in her life.
		don't feel the refugees Nor do the winds summer rain Baby, take my hand Call like Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255 East of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033
		First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222 And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295 to rechart on the toll-free international line call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is indeed Graham Hancock.
		Yay is author of the major international bestsellers, The Sign and the Seal, Fingerprints of the Gods, and Heaven's Mirror.
		His books now have sold more than 5 million copies worldwide and have been translated into 27 languages.
		His public lectures and TV appearances, including the three-hour series Quest for the Lost Civilization, have put his ideas before audiences of tens of millions.
		He has become recognized as an unconventional thinker who raises legit questions about humanity's history and prehistory and offers an increasingly popular challenge to the entrenched views of orthodox scholars.
		And I will get into this in a moment, but clearly for archaeologists lately the world has been falling apart.
		Born in Edinburgh, Scotland, Hancock's early years were spent in India where his father worked as a surgeon.
		Later he went to school and university in the northern English city of Durham and graduated from Durham University in 1973 with first-class honors in sociology, went on to pursue a career in equality journalism, writing for many of Britain's leading newspapers, including The Times, Sunday Times, Independent, Guardian, co-editor of the new internationalist magazine from 76 through 9, and East Africa correspondent of The Economist.
		Boy, are they big in Europe, 81 through 83, my goodness.
		His breakthrough after first starting to write, bestseller, came in 92 with the publication of The Sign and the Seal.
		His epic investigation into the mystique and whereabouts of the Ark of the Lost Covenant, Fingerprints of the Gods, published in 95, now has sold more than 3 million copies and continues to be in demand about the world.
		Subsequent works such as Keeper of Genesis, The Message of the Sphinx in the U.S. with co-author Robert Boval, and Heaven's Mirror with photographer, I believe it's Santhiphasia, have also been number one bestsellers and on and on and on, in a moment, coming up, Graham Hancock.
		Now, here we are again, the law of unintended consequences.
		Two things.
		One, Graham appears to have been at a different number than the one I had.
		We'll find out about that in a moment.
		And check this out for Cool.
		During the time I was reading Graham's biographical information here, I dropped a cigarette cherry squarely in my lap.
		Some of you out there will know what that is.
		Trying to do an ear candle job on my privates or something.
		Now, did I remain fairly calm or what?
		Anybody want to check and see if there appears to be a large comet headed for Earth at the moment?
		These have been strange signs.
		Hey, Graham, God, good to hear your voice again.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Nice to hear you, too, Ad.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It's been a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now that I've heard it, you're going to have to stay a little away from the phone there.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'll try to keep it away.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I think I put new rechargeable batteries at my old telephone, and it's now too loud.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that a portable phone?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have one that you can pick up?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I don't.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		They're all hand-free.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		All right.
		Well, anyway, it's good to hear you again.
		And, you know, I started out, Graham, by saying that the last couple of years, and it's been a while since you and I have spoken, they've been very bad times for archaeologists worldwide.
		I mean, things are beginning to be seen and researched all over the place that would seem to indicate that mankind has been here a lot longer than they've been telling us.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, certainly civilized mankind.
unidentified		Yes.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yes, there have been new discoveries, new finds, changes.
		There's a lot that's being shaken up at the moment.
		And I think we're going to see some very interesting times ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why, Graham, did we not find you at the telephone number we had listed for you?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Okay, here's the thing.
		I have two places.
		I live most of my time in the west country of England in Devon, very far from any town.
		But sometimes I have to be in London.
		So we have a small place here, and when I have to work in London, we come up and stay here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		And I had given the London numbers, but I think what happened was that you'd been trying my numbers in Devon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		That's it, really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		Okay, easy enough.
		Anyway.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Easy enough, yeah.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, luckily I had your hotline, so I called in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, as you've seen all of this stuff unfolding, you know, all of these new discoveries, I suppose you've heard about off the coast of Cuba and all the rest of that?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely, yes.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		The Cabo San Antonio, very interesting, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You must feel somewhat vindicated.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I think it's too early to go around feeling vindicated.
		But what I feel is that the basic proposition that I've put forward, which is that there was a higher level of civilization, perhaps much higher than we've expected way back in the Ice Age, and that an urban city-dwelling culture, a culture that had reached that level, was destroyed by the rising sea levels at the end of the ice age, and that we're going to find the remains of it underwater.
		That seems to be being supported by evidence at the moment, but we need to do a whole lot more work on these places, and there's a lot of bridges to cross yet, but it's looking good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, we're all hearing about Cuba, and we're waiting for information on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What can you tell us about what's been found off the coast of India?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, what's been found off the coast of India, you have two separate sites.
		You have sites in the northwest of India, and you have sites as far away from those as you can get and still be in India in the southeast of India.
		And I've been following both of these areas as a diver and as a researcher for several years now.
		What happened in May of 2001 was that one of India's government agencies, the National Institute of Ocean Technology, which specializes in high-tech instrumentation for remote surveys on the seabed, was conducting a survey in a place called the Gulf of Cambay in northwest India.
		Now, they were not doing archaeology.
		They were there actually testing the pollution levels in the Gulf of Cambay.
		And they were using an instrument called SciScan Sonar, which sends out a beam down to the seabed and which bounces back an image of what's on the seabed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She was just like in Cuba.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Just like in Cuba.
		Side scan sonar.
		However, it's gone a lot further than that.
		So back in May last year, they were doing this survey and they started to notice very regular geometrical formations on the seabed.
		They had geologists with them and they just couldn't understand what these things were.
		They were about 120 feet down and they were very extensive and they focused their survey in that area, followed this up, and they found that what they seemed to be sitting on top of were two cities roughly five miles long and about a mile wide, laid out alongside of ancient riverbeds parallel to each other but about 15 miles apart.
		And to give a sense of the size of these cities, if you added them both together, you would have a city the size of Manhattan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My God.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Now, this is very extraordinary, and it was a very extraordinary discovery at the time because the depth of submergence suggests that these are very old.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		But when the National Institute of Ocean Technology went public with its findings in May last year, nobody took them seriously because the suggestion that there could have been fantastic cities of this scale thousands and thousands of years ago, which had been covered up by water, was just too difficult for archaeologists to swallow.
unidentified		And they suffered a lot of ridicule at that time.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		But they didn't give up.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		And they went back with their research vessel and they pulled up, using, in fact, a mechanical grab, they pulled up, they put themselves over the top of the cities, and they pulled up from the seabed more than 2,000 man-made artifacts, including pottery, jewelry, even human remains, teeth, bones, vertebrae, a jawbone, wonderful things.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How would human remains last that long?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can understand some other artifacts, but human remains, that's amazing.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		In fossilized form, yeah, they do.
		And these were fossilized, and they have lasted because they ran carbon dating tests on pieces of cut wood that were found amongst this artifact.
		The wood was perfectly preserved.
		And the date that they got from the carbon dating, which is a standard archaeological tool, and I'm often accused of ignoring it, but a date that was given by carbon dating was 9,500 years ago, 7,500 BC.
		That's about 4,000 years older than any city known to archaeologists anywhere in the world.
		And it suddenly led to a huge jump in the seriousness with which these ruins on the bottom of the Gulf of Cambay were taken, because no longer could it be said that they were simply an artifact of the imaging process or some kind of scientific hallucination.
		Once you pull 2,000 artifacts out of them, it obviously and logically enormously increases the possibility that they're man-made.
		And in fact, nobody in India is in serious doubt about that now.
		So we're dealing with something that confounds the established picture of history, because we're supposed to have started developing cities 5,000 or less than 5,000 years ago with the gradual growth and emergence of civilization, which has always been thought to have started in the Sertar Crescent in the Middle East near Iraq.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		And now, suddenly, thousands of years earlier, we have these cities which simply can't be explained.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Our educational institutions around the world have not yet begun to respond to this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, what they're teaching in school with regard to archaeology in our past remains virtually unchanged, Graham.
unidentified		I would expect that to be so for quite a while.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It's going to take the archaeological community about five years, I would guess, to digest this new information.
		First off, they have to get rid of all their objections to it and satisfy themselves that it is a genuine discovery, which I have no doubt that they'll do, and then come to terms with what it means.
		If it is what it seems to be, I think any archaeologist would agree that it turns over the established story of the origins of civilization.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in what way?
		In what way do you think they will now explain what they know about man's presence on the planet in such manner?
		I mean, what are they going to do?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		You have to understand that the first, for archaeologists who are invested in the present view of the past, which is a straight line development from rather simple and primitive beginnings through a nice series of gradual evolutionary steps until we get cities and eventually end up with what we have today.
		That such an idea simply cannot accommodate cities that are 9,000 years old at the bottom of the Gulf of Cambay.
		And in fact, I have to stress that the date on those cities, which is retrieved from carbon-dated artifacts, is supported by sea level studies because there's a whole science which studies the extent to which sea level rose at the end of the last ice age.
		And this science puts the submergence of the Gulf of Cambay round about 7,700 years ago.
		So it means that the cities there couldn't have been built before that date.
		And so the carbon date of about 1,500 years older than that makes sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe you can describe...
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		So the first thing we're going to see is several years of intense critical focus on these finds to see if they can be dismissed.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		That'll be the first thing that happens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if everybody, if it's confirmed, and we're now five or ten years later, what conclusions do we draw about ourselves and what changes in thinking in what kind of circles will this create?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, for me, first and foremost, what it means is that the vast heritage of mythology that we have from all around the world, which testifies to global floods and which has been scorned and ignored by archaeologists as irrelevant to archaeological research,
		this is going to have to change because we're looking at a phenomenon.
		The work that I've been doing for the last five years has been following up every possible lead in this area of underwater structures.
		And I'm a diver and I've been diving on structures all around the world.
		And there is evidence for massively ancient underwater structures in almost all parts of the world.
		So this looks like the global traces of a cataclysmic event or a series of cataclysmic events.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's still Okinawa that they're trying to figure out, and now, of course, Cuba.
		And I know that you've seen the reports on Cuba.
		And in the case of Cuba, Graham, it's 2,200 feet.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Cuba is fascinating.
		Whatever it is, it's a very deep site.
		Now, we have to realize with a site that's submerged to a depth of 2,200 feet, that we are not dealing solely with the issue of sea level rise at the end of the ice age.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Obviously not.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Because that would account at the most for 400 feet of submergence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've heard some people say as much as 900, but certainly no more, nowhere near 2,200 feet.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Nowhere near 2,200 and nowhere near 902, except that you do get variations around the world simply because of land subsidence and land elevation, which occurs in all of these places at the same time that the sea is going up and down.
		But generally speaking, you wouldn't find a greater depth of submersion than about 400 feet, which is a very great depth as a result of sea level rise.
		So if these cities are submerged to 2,200 feet, the most logical conclusion to draw is that they must have been carried down to that depth in some kind of underwater landslide.
		This is possible.
		Apparently, it's particularly possible in that area.
		But, of course, I'm jumping ahead of the finds and assuming that these are man-made structures.
		They may not be.
		They may not be man-made.
unidentified		I have a feeling, I hope, they are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		Let's go back to India then for a second with the artifacts that have been brought up.
		If we go out on a limb and speculate About what it was like for the people on that land that's now so far below water, what do we imagine it was like?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, the clearest signature of what kind of people they were comes from the character of the buildings that they've left behind, which are now on the seabed.
		And these are very extensive structures with huge walls and massive foundations.
		There's another technique called sub-bottom profiling, which will do, it kind of takes an x-ray of the sea bottom and looks at what's underneath the bottom.
		And what sub-bottom profiling has shown on these structures in the Gulf of Cambay is that they have massive foundations, very, very strong and probably made of very large blocks of stone.
		The character of the walls that are left above water is just huge.
		It's on an enormous scale and very geometrical with lots of right angles in it, and you can see clear shapes of large, square, and rectangular constructions.
		Now, for a society to put all of this together 9,000 or more years ago, you have to understand that at that period of the past, what archaeology says we're dealing with is just small villages and settlements.
		The very largest that you might find, well-known places like Jericho and Katilhayak in Turkey, which are both known early settlements, are about 150 times smaller than what we find on the bottom of the Gulf of Cambay.
		So it's completely out of context and perspective in the period to which it's applied.
		Now, even beyond that, when you look at a big city, you have to ask yourself, how did those people support themselves?
		How did they eat?
		How did they sustain themselves?
unidentified		Exactly.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		And it's difficult to imagine a city or cities of these sizes being established without a solid agricultural base to feed them.
		However, 9,000 years ago, agriculture is supposed to have been only just beginning, just beginning, not have got to the stage where it could support large cities.
		Far from that, thousands of years away from that.
		So there we have another mystery.
		And I think it's possible that the answers to all of these mysteries are on the 10 million square miles of land that was submerged by rising sea levels around the world at the end of the Ice Age.
		That's an area bigger than South America and North America as far as the Canadian border, added together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are many people like myself who wonder about following Graham.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We may not have time for a good answer here, but if there are really all these undersea cities about the world, then the U.S. government with its submarines, the Russian government with its submarines, should know about these things, shouldn't they?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, a place where they particularly should know about them is the Persian Gulf, because that area must be amongst the most heavily controlled waters in the world.
unidentified		Absolutely.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		And the entire Persian Gulf was dry with a beautiful river running through it until about 12,000 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So are you guessing they do know and have not said anything?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I expect I am, yeah.
		I expect I am.
		Although, frankly, the places where submarines go is not necessarily the same places that you'd expect to find submerged ruins.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps not.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		They're often in much deeper water.
		But I'd be very surprised if some anomalies have not been found.
		And indeed, we have reports from the Russians going back to the 1980s of quite a few very strange things being found in the Atlantic Ocean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
		Okay, let's hold it right there.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		Graham Hancock is my guest from Great Britain.
		I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast A.M. I've been drifting on the sea of heartbreak.
		Trying to get myself ashore for so long.
		For so long.
		Listening to the strangest stories.
		Wondering where it all went wrong for so long.
		Music I freed out your madness.
		So much of a love of matter.
		You should worry after any crime.
		If you get wrong, you can write it.
		To recharge Bell in the Kingdom of Nye.
		From west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Certainly is.
		Good morning.
		Graham Hancock from Great Britain is here, and we've had him switch phones trying to corral ourselves a little bit better connection.
		We might have done that.
		We'll see you here in a moment.
		In a moment, Graham will be right back.
		Now back to Graham Hancock in Great Britain.
		Graham, are you there?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I'm here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, that sounds good.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Hopefully I'll quiet your telephone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it sounds so much better, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
unidentified		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so you have been.
unidentified		The only problem for me now is I can't pace, you see.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I like to pace when I'm talking.
		Now I'm fixed to the chair with a fixed line.
		But anyway, let's go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you really like to pace back and forth?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I do.
		I'm a pacer.
		I don't know why, but I just can't take a telephone call sitting still.
unidentified		However, I'm doing so now, so it's a good experience for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you've been doing an Indiana Jones thing all over the world, it seems like.
		Something in the Bay of Bengal.
		What are you doing there?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		This is southeast India.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		We were talking a few moments ago about big cities that have been discovered underwater in northwest India.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, yeah.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		But right far away in the southeast of India, off A state of India called Tamil Nadu, inhabited by Tamil-speaking people.
		There has been another discovery.
		And in fact, this discovery was made by Indian archaeologists some years ago, back in 1993.
		They were doing a survey of ruins which were very close to shore in that area.
		In fact, they were so close to shore that some of them were exposed, completely exposed at low tide.
		And these ruins were dated accurately to not very old, between 300 BC and 300 AD.
		But while they were doing that survey, they also decided to look in deeper water.
		And they went out, again, using initially Said Scansona, but in this case supported by diving as well, including by myself.
		They went out with Sait Scansona and they found at five kilometers from the shore, say three miles out from shore, at a depth of 70 feet, a very large structure which shouldn't be there.
		They couldn't figure out what it was.
		It was shaped like a horseshoe and it was shown on the Saiteskansona to be surrounded by other structures.
		In 1993, they put down some marine archaeologists to dive on it, and they found that it was a man-made structure with courses of blocks clearly visible inside of it under the marine growth.
		But they didn't know what to do with it because it was so far from shore.
		It didn't appear, couldn't be connected to the ruins that were inshore and much younger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you actually put on gear and went out there yourself.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've been diving for five years, and specifically in order to follow up wonderful anomalies like this.
		I found out about this structure in a very obscure journal published by India's National Institute of Oceanography, just like a footnote to their study on the inshore structures.
		And I decided this is extremely intriguing, and I have to have a look at it.
		It took me about a year and a half to get permission from the Indian government to dive there.
		But finally, last year, I went back, in fact, with a film crew, and we dived on this structure and filmed it.
		And it is the most fantastic, enormous structure, which archaeologists admit would have required a high technology, quote-unquote, to build.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Graham, why is it hard to get a permit to dive there?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Believe it or not, although India has fabulous coasts and a very long coastline, there is almost no leisure diving in India.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		There's only a couple of places in India where a scuba diver can dive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At that, these were shark-infested waters.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's not only that, it's just that scuba diving as a culture has never really developed in India.
		There is commercial diving, but there's no, I mean, people who are diving to free anchors and bring up salvage and so on, but there's no leisure diving.
		So immediately, anybody diving in India has huge problems of supply, getting compressors, getting tanks, all of this kind of thing.
		You just can't do it.
		And as soon as you start to do it, it's referred back to the government and they say, well, why do you want to dive?
		And they quite strictly control their waters.
		So it took a very long time to just get permission to dive there.
		And then because there are no logistics and no facilities, it was necessary for India's National Institute of Oceanography to go there also, to bring in a portable compressor so that we could have air in our tanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		wonder what they're afraid of, though.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I mean, do they think...
		I just think that in other places, for example, the Caribbean, where everybody dives all the time, the idea of a diver has become normalized, and people are quite used to seeing folk dressed up in masks and fins and so on.
		But in India, the idea of a diver is not normalized, and their immediate suspicion is, why is this person diving?
		Is he going to try to steal something from us?
		Is it some kind of security issue?
		This was particularly large in the Gulf of Cambay in the northwest, which is near the troubled areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I guess in every country there's a Zahi waiting somewhere, huh?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes.
		In the case of India, it's just rather charming and it's just rather charming and slow-moving.
		It's the sort of worst of British bureaucracy tinged with sort of 50 years of the worst of Indian bureaucracy as well.
		And everything just takes a long time to happen, but in a very nice, polite way.
		And as long as you're patient, and there's no reason not to be patient with India because it's one of the oldest countries in the world, as long as you're patient, you will eventually get to do what you want to do.
		And that I did, dived on this structure, filmed it, and we are returning there in a month's time with a full-scale expedition, again jointly with the National Institute of Oceanography, but with a lot of technical divers from Britain, in order to survey the other 27 structures that have been found nearby.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my goodness.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Now, what's intriguing about this structure in Southeast India is the depth of submergence on that coast.
		We have to remember that there's a, I mentioned this earlier, but there is an increasingly highly developed science which takes into account all the variables that you need to take into account to figure out what the sea level was on any particular location anywhere in the world at any particular time.
		And when that program is run on this site, we find that the underwater structure that I've dived on there was submerged 11,500 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		11,500 years.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		That, by the way, is the same date that's given in Plato for the submergence of Atlantis in another ocean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, one of the major things, I think, that will come crashing home to people as they realize these areas that were above ground 11,000 or 11,000 and a half years ago or whatever, even millions of years ago at 2,200 feet or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if it happened once, Graham, it could happen again.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I think that's one of the most humbling lessons of this new material which is now coming out all around the world, is that it is really possible that our ancestors reached a much higher level of development than we imagine.
		Perhaps they formed a different kind of civilization to the one we've created, but if they lived in cities, they were certainly a highly developed people.
		But this could have happened and then been forgotten.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it possible that along with an older civilization that went much, much farther than we imagine, there would have been a technology of some description that we don't fully understand today, perhaps a technology that was able to do things that we almost can't do today, like build pyramids, I don't know, whatever, that they developed some sort of probably what we would call magic today.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Although I'm sure it's natural to do all of this.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It's a harnessing of natural forces.
		Well, of course, we're entering a highly speculative area here.
		Speculation is fun.
		So let's speculate.
		Once we cross the barrier and accept that it appears that there was a whole earlier layer of civilization which we are only just beginning to find out about, and that that had reached the level of an urban civilization, then it would be very surprising if there wasn't some kind of technology involved.
		Simply to get an organized complex culture that can build cities involves so many processes that it would be almost a miracle if there wasn't a technology involved.
		But at the same time, the evidence for this remains to be confirmed and remains to be established as to whether that's so or not.
		I like to think from studying ancient texts, and in this case, particularly relevant are the ancient texts of India, that we may be looking at a society which in some ways was very different from ours.
		If they developed technology, it would have been of a different sort.
		The primary interest of that society was not particularly technological or material.
		You could even see this in India today, that millions of people in India spend their entire lives just wandering as pilgrims from place to place, having completely renounced the world because they believe that attachment to the world slows down the progress of the soul.
		So we can't assume that an earlier society, an earlier civilization was as interested in technology as we are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And perhaps not at all in the sense that we are.
		It may have been a very just a.
		In other words, it could have been a civilization that was based on certain beliefs, based on certain facts that we no longer understand, correct?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I think that's exactly the way to look at it.
		That it raises two questions.
		Not only the possibility that great civilizations can be destroyed and lost for thousands of years, almost without trace, but also that the pattern in which a civilization evolves is not necessarily fixed in the model that we have today.
		Perhaps there are other ways for this to happen.
		Perhaps our kind of global dominant society today is only one of many routes that human beings could take, and then perhaps not even necessarily the best.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, sure, isn't it rather egotistical to imagine this is the only way?
		With regard to the first site you were talking about, Mike in Anaheim, California asks, you know, I hear the currents are too strong for diving on the site.
		How might people eventually explore the site and do so in a way which does not involve dredging for artifacts?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Right.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Good question, and a good point raised in it, because dredging for artifacts is it was necessary in this case because it was necessary to establish once and for all that these were man-made sites.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but then you've got to take the next step, right?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		You've got to take the next step and dredging won't do it.
		Now, when I first got on to this story, which is close to a year ago now, that was when I put in my applications to dive with the National Institute of Ocean Technology, who found these structures in the Gulf of Cambay.
		When we went back there to film with them, which we did just a month or two ago in December, we still did not have permission to dive in the Gulf of Cambay, and they themselves had not dived in the Gulf of Cambay.
		And the reason for this is these enormous currents.
		There's actually a 30-foot difference between high tide and low tide in the Gulf of Cambay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		And you get, and the site is more than 20 miles from shore.
		Now, the most dangerous thing for any diver, forget about sharks, forget about anything like that, the most dangerous thing is to get carried away by a current.
		If you are carried off by a current and you surface half a mile from your boat, unless they have a fast recovery vessel, a launch which can go out and pick you up, and it often can't see you if there's waves even three feet high.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then you're dead.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		You're dead.
		And there's no shore to swim to.
		So to do, this is a deep site.
		It's 120 feet deep in places.
		It involves a lot of logistics and backup for diving and for just securing that people don't die there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's actually almost like drifting away from a spacecraft without a tether, isn't it?
unidentified		It is.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It is like drifting away from a spacecraft without a tether, and I've done it several times.
		And the two occasions when I've come closest to losing my life as a diver have both been because of that, of surfacing and literally not seeing the boat that you jumped off.
		It's gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God, that's got to be scary.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It is a very scary thing.
		And it's a scary thing when you're less than a mile from shore and have some chance to swim to shore.
		But it's an impossibly scary thing when you're 20 miles from shore, as is the case in the Gulf of Cambay.
		So very careful steps have to be taken to ensure that diving is safe there.
		But it can be done.
		And we're hoping to dive on that site with a bit of luck within the next six months.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're certainly to be commended for not only talking and researching, as so many academics do, but going out there and looking for yourself.
		Now, you saw this with your own eyes.
		Is there any question at all about what you saw?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		No.
		As far as I'm concerned, I've seen a lot more evidence on this than has so far been made public.
		And by the way, the story Of the Indian underwater cities is hardly known about at all in the U.S. I think you must be one of the first shows to be talking about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Believe me, you're absolutely correct.
		Now, we were aware of it.
		We'd have the headlines fairly recently, but no details, Graham.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
		The story just hasn't been picked up in the U.S. for some reason, but it will be.
		It'll gradually start dawning on people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, same deal with one in Cuba.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The story is there if you have the right people doing the research, but it's not hitting...
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
		And it's very difficult to embrace.
		See, what happens is if somebody wanting to run a news item on this on the TV rings up some academic expert and says, well, what do you think of this story?
		He's going to say, oh, it's rubbish, forget about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		And therefore it gets forgotten about.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy until it actually creeps up behind you and bangs you on the head, you know, which is what it's about to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I asked somebody the other night, I do so many good interviews, what it would take for scientists, for archaeologists to suddenly accept all of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he sat back and thought for a moment, and he said, well, they've got to all die off.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		This is also true, unfortunately.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think it's that bad?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		And it's often the case with new ideas that they seem outrageous at the time.
		Later, when a whole generation has passed away and a new generation has become the establishment, those ideas get accepted.
		It can happen again.
		But I must say, to be fair to archaeologists, I do believe that confronted by evidence which they could not refute, they would accept that they have to change their picture of the past.
		It will be painful, but I think it will come.
		They're just going to require more evidence than they've got at the moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, from what I've heard, and maybe I'm wrong, but what I've heard is that many archaeologists, when confronted with some evidence, some artifacts that they simply cannot explain, end up, instead of doing what science should do and proceeding to find out, sort of just take it and put it up on the shelf and say, look, it doesn't fit.
		It's some kind of weird anomaly.
		Let's just not think about it and put it up there.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they ignore it.
		This is unfortunately the first reaction, and it's why new ideas and new discoveries have a very high threshold to cross before they get recognized.
		And in a way, I think this is a very unfortunate side of quote-unquote science as it concerns our ancient history, that instead of a welcoming openness to new ideas and new evidence, there's hostility and suspicion towards them.
		And that mindset automatically makes it very difficult to discuss and present new ideas.
		I personally think that a more tolerant, more encouraging climate from the scientific community, even if it led them on some wild goose chases, would probably produce better results for humanity in the end.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it may not be our generation that truly comes to grips with this, and certainly it may not be our colleges and universities that teach this newly discovered material until a generation passes.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Likely to be the case.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Likely to be a generation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They'll have to keep listening to this program and others like it, I guess, if they want to know what's really going on.
		That's sad.
		I understand you've also done something off the coast of Malta.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
		One area amongst several.
		I've got a new book coming out.
		This is not a plug because it won't be published in the U.S. for another month.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you can have a plug.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go right ahead.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It won't be published in the U.S. for another six months, but it's being published here in Britain.
		In fact, it's published today, and it's called Underworld.
		And what it is, is a worldwide examination of this phenomenon of mysterious underwater ruins, supported by my own direct diving all around the world, but also setting it in context of what we know about the world in this period of.
		Oh no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold it right there for a second.
unidentified		There's something happening here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll do a short break and be right there.
unidentified		What it is ain't exactly clear.
		There's a man with a gun over there telling me I got to beware.
		I think it's time we stop children.
		Watch that sound.
		Everybody look what's going down.
		We'll be right back.
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Knives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, Graham has a new book about all of this, and they have it in Britain as of today.
		And we're not going to get it for another six months here.
		Just doesn't seem fair.
		We'll find out more about that, and we've got a couple of roads we're going to go down in a moment.
		Very ancient roads.
		Stay right there.
		Now, did I understand the title of the book correctly?
		Is it called Underworld?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It's called Underworld.
unidentified		The subtitle is Flooded Kingdoms of the Ice Age.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		And I'm sorry it's not available in the U.S. yet.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		My publishers are crown in New York, and they're planning to publish it in the fall, but it's available on amazon.co.uk in the U.K. Oh, it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
		All right.
		Some people are going to go for it.
		I know it.
		All right.
		What happened?
		What's going on?
		You know, before I even get to Malta, here, let me ask you about this.
		I've been reading a nightly story about global warming.
		I've been reading about penguins that are retreating in the Antarctic because it's too damn warm where they are.
		Tonight, here in the U.S., Graham, they're running a story about an ice chunk two times the size of Manhattan that just broke off from Antarctica.
		And when you begin to hear these stories, and you see our scientists and climatologists talking now about rapid climate change, boy, are they running a lot of stories about rapid climate change?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		We clearly are in a period of very rapid climate change at the moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if all of this ice were to melt, that would be very bad news.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, if all of the ice in Antarctica were to melt, you would look at virtually, well, you'd look at every coastal city in the world being submerged.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
		And so is it possible in your mind that thousands and thousands of years could pass after an event like this, should it occur, and some future civilization would be digging down or diving down and finding these remarkable cities that once existed.
		New York and San Francisco.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I think that if you take our culture today, what's distinctive about it is its global spread.
		We are all over the world.
		I mean, the signature of modern industrial society is not quite everywhere.
		It's not yet in the Brazilian rainforest, fortunately, although it is in some ways.
		But, you know, it's very, very widely distributed.
		And therefore, it would take more than global floods, flooding millions of square miles of coastline, to completely eliminate all traces of us.
		It would take something of the order of an asteroid or a comet strike, I think, to do that.
		But an earlier civilization that had confined itself to coastlines, that had chosen to live on the coast, which is a very sensible thing to do during an ice age when the inland areas are extremely cold and unpleasant and almost inhabitable, such a civilization would be selectively wiped out by flooding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So while we see the signs of some major change, or we might be on the precipice of a major change, that's fair speculation, certainly.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I think it's very fair speculation that we're on the precipice of a major change.
		I think we have to realize that we as human beings are one of the most powerful forces operating in the world today.
		So we're quite capable of wiping ourselves out.
		We don't really even need nature to do it for us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, so whether it's nature or by our hand, either way, we do seem to be on this precipice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if we're in the midst of proving this has happened before, that would be a really good reason for people not to want to think about this, wouldn't it?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Or a really good reason to want to think about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Depends.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Depends on the person.
		Once you start putting the rise and fall of human civilizations into a perspective and realize that it's possible for whole episodes of the human story to be lost, then perhaps you have a greater investment in making sure that doesn't happen in the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about Malta?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Malta is one of the areas that I focused on in Underworld.
		And I focused on it because although Malta is a tiny place today, a tiny island, in fact, a group of three small islands in the Mediterranean, it has an unusually large significance in the ancient history of mankind.
		And that is because what are thought by archaeologists to be the first great temples in the world were built on Malta.
		And they're what's called megalithic temples made with huge stones, megaliths, the kind of stones that you see in a place like Stonehenge, for example.
		These were used to construct a group of enormous temples on the Maltese islands.
		And these temples are dated back to 3,700 BC.
		So that takes us back 5,700 years ago from today.
		They are the most spectacular and amazing temples you can imagine.
		Hardly anybody even hears of Malta.
		But my God, you go there and you see those temples.
		You see megaliths 20 feet tall towering above you.
		You see stones that weigh up to 100 tons, which have been brought into position at the very dawn of history and raised up into these enormous temples.
		And a mystery strikes you.
		Where did they learn to do this?
		What's the background to this?
		The oldest temple on Malta is in many ways the most advanced.
		It's an enormous temple called Gigantia.
		That's after local folklore that says it must have been the work of giants.
		And it's dated to 3,700 BC, and it is a consummate work of construction by master builders and master engineers.
		The problem on Malta is there's no evidence of the evolution of this type of architecture.
		In fact, according to official archaeology, there had only been human beings at all on Malta for just 1,500 years before that.
		And when you look through the archaeological record, although you find them making mud huts and things like that, you don't find them making these fantastic megalithic temples.
		So it seems like part of the story is missing.
		And I began to look into the possibility that it could be missing underwater, because when you do the science and look at the map of Malta back through the ages, you find that today, although it's separated by 50 miles of sea from Sicily, 12,000 years ago it was joined to Sicily.
		It was part of Sicily.
		And Sicily in turn was joined to mainland Italy.
		So Malta was part Of the mainland.
		And this has never been taken into account in considering the origins and development of the temples, and that's what I've tried to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just like we think that Central America was once perhaps connected to Cuba.
		So, you know, this may not be just one place.
		You're certainly investigating one area of the world.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I'm confident that it's a worldwide problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, look at the coast of Japan, for example.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		That's another area where I've put an enormous focus in over the last five years.
		And there's been a great deal of controversy about whether the underwater structures there are man-made or whether they're some kind of freak natural formations.
		And one of the things I've concentrated on doing in my new book and in the TV series that goes with it is to really explore that argument.
		And I took an extremely skeptical geologist with me to Japan to dive on the structures there.
		And even he had to admit that the most spectacular of all of these structures is one that he simply cannot explain by any known natural forces.
		So it's very important.
		You see, what happens whenever, something we touched on a bit earlier, but whenever you come up with a discovery which fundamentally challenges the accepted version of history, the first thing you must expect is several years of intense fire being trained upon you to test that discovery.
		And in a way, this is a good thing.
		It's a good thing that the scientific method requires high standards of proof.
		And that's what I set out to try to find.
		But it's also a bad thing because it discourages inquiry into unusual and extraordinary possibilities which deserve to be inquired into.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, whatever part of the world it seems to be, Graham, we seem to have local myths that support the whole great flood idea.
		And that's universal.
		I mean, in every one of these areas, there are myths.
		Now, we call them myths, but they probably have some origin of truth in them.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I'm certain that they have a great amount of truth in them, which has been overlooked.
		You see, when the flood myths first started to be investigated, first became realized that there were flood myths, this was back in the 19th century.
		And at the time, what was applied to those flood myths was the model of the biblical flood.
		Scholars were, at that time, not disbelieving of the Bible, and they believed in a biblical flood.
		So the first flood evidence from other parts of the world and flood myths from other parts of the world were taken as evidence of the global nature of the biblical flood.
		Then as time passed and scientific archaeology developed, this view began to be questioned and it became unpopular amongst scientists to believe in such a thing as the global flood of Noah described in the Bible.
		And the new view began to take over, the so-called rational scientific Western view began to take over that these were just myths which had been made up by primitive people.
		Perhaps they experienced a small river flood, and in their benighted ignorance they imagined that it had affected the whole world.
		This, believe it or not, is the scholarly position on flood myths.
		I've also heard reputable scholars say that flood myths are kind of psychological projections to do with the birth process, that the embryo is in the womb, floating in fluid, and so we somehow have a natural tendency to imagine flood myths.
		To me, this is just garbage and hogwash.
		Flood myths are indeed universal.
		There's more than 600 myths from around the world.
		What they all speak of is a global flood that had a catastrophic effect on mankind.
		And what almost all of them say is that part of that catastrophic effect was the removal of a former civilization which had angered the gods and brought the flood down upon itself.
		And I don't think now that we have very good science on the series of cataclysms that hit the world at the end of the ice age, I don't think we can afford to ignore anymore the possibility that the flood myths may be speaking about the end of the ice age.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess a lot of people would take the attitude that, you know what, I really might believe it, but, hey, what can I do about it?
		If we're facing something fairly soon of that magnitude, even though we have a greater civilization, no doubt, more will survive.
		It would so change the world.
		It would be such a gigantic event that the average person could have no effect on it whatsoever.
		And really, that's more or less true, right?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's certainly true that the average person can have no effect on it whatsoever.
		However, an eloquent and interested public that wants to know about blind spots and missing pages in our history, sooner or later, the pressure from that public will be felt by scholars to investigate this problem more thoroughly than it has been investigated.
		And I have to emphasize that as far as I'm concerned, there is a real blind spot here.
		There's a real blind spot in archaeology because of the vast area that was flooded at the end of the Ice Age.
		I mentioned it earlier, but it's 10 million square miles.
		That's three times the size of Canada.
		It's the size of Europe and China added together.
		It's the size of South America and the U.S. added together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But their blind spot in this area could lead to mankind's being blind-sighted.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Definitely.
		Definitely.
		If we have an incomplete picture of our past, if we've built our picture, because our picture of the past, either consciously or unconsciously, forms the platform on which we build our future.
		And if that picture of the past is wrong, fundamentally wrong in major areas, then surely it's going to affect the way we look at our future, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I really believe that that is why people are reluctant to embrace the concept, because of what could happen, not because of what happened, but because of what it might mean for us.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I agree with you.
		I think there's no doubt about that.
		There is a sense in which quote-unquote alternative history is quite subversive, really, because although it's not attacking or questioning any modern institution, it's attacking and questioning all the foundations on which modern institutions are built.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it still your view, Graham, that somewhere perhaps under the Sphinx there lies a library of information that might be the key to opening up the knowledge of what once was?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've got no reason to have abandoned that view, which I came to and expressed quite a while ago in work with my good friend Robert Boval.
		For the last four years, I have not been working on Egypt.
		I spent so much time involved in Egypt in the early, mid-1990s and through to the late 1990s that I decided deliberately to give myself a break from it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		And not focus in on that hothouse all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I know, but there are supporting elements of what you're doing now.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		It all ties together as far as I'm concerned.
		I still remain convinced that there is a legacy in ancient Egyptian civilization which goes back way back, thousands and thousands of years back, to precisely the same period that we call the end of the Ice Age.
		And that was a period.
		It wasn't a single moment.
		It was a period of 10,000 years, between 17,000 and 7,000 years ago.
		And that's when everything happened for humanity.
		It's in exactly that period when the Ice Age is ending, the sea levels are rising, there's tremendous volcanic activity all around the world as continental plates shift with the ice burden lifted off them.
		It's exactly in that period that archaeologists start seeing the first tentative steps towards agriculture, the first evidence of agriculture.
		And what I'm wondering is, could those first agricultural settlers, the first farmers who it seems already knew how to farm, could they be the survivors of an earlier civilization that was destroyed by the floods?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly right.
		Exactly right.
		So that's what I meant when I said one sort of supports the other in a way.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, very much so.
		And the dating supports.
		And, you know, I mean, to raise a name that everybody has heard, which is the name of Atlantis, you know, one is these are, I don't know how it is in America, but in Britain, if you talk about Atlantis, you're automatically considered to be mad.
		You don't need to do anything else to qualify for the madhouse.
		Just say the word Atlantis, and they'll put you in it.
		However, that's a very irrational view of Atlantis.
		What's intriguing about the Plato story of Atlantis is that he actually puts a date on it, which very few myths do.
		He said that it happened 9,000 years before the story reached the Greeks.
		And that takes us back to 9,600 BC, which is 11,600 years ago.
		And that's smack in the middle of one of the big episodes of sea level rise at the end of the Ice Age.
		So how does Plato know that date?
		I mean, if he's made it up, and if he's just picking a date at random out of his imagination, isn't it intriguing that the phenomenon he describes, which is a worldwide flood, a flood that affected both the Atlantic and the Mediterranean and which destroyed a great civilization, that such events were happening at that time?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That all of this just so happens to coincide that the big red X goes right over that period of time again and again and again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This should begin to mean something to people.
unidentified		Yeah.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It certainly should begin to mean something because it's a crucial period for us and it's one that we just don't know enough about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, and so then I can see how your research from Egypt naturally made the evolution to where it is now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it makes absolute sense to me.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		It was a natural linear progression and also partly an attempt to listen to my critics, of whom I have many, who were saying, where's the hard evidence?
		Where's the real evidence that we can touch, that we can see, that we can weigh, that we can measure, which says that there was a lost civilization.
		And that's why some years ago now I learned to dive and why diving has become such an important part of my life because the answer, if it's anywhere, has got to be underwater.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it like to see it for yourself?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Wonderful.
		Wonderful.
		I have had the most amazing experiences underwater in the last four years.
		To see, for example, an enormous megalithic stone circle, 100 feet underwater, still intact off the coast of Japan, in beautiful water, which is so limpid and blue that you can see for 300, 400 feet underwater.
		It's just incredible.
		And to drop down through this onto this, the most amazing structure.
		It's a huge stone circle.
		The central upright is 14 feet high.
		It's surrounded by uprights in a circle around it.
		There's a central pathway.
		It's the most amazing thing.
		To see something like that at that depth is surreal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can only then ask you about your own personal experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any way in your mind, after seeing it, that you can say to yourself that this is not...
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		No, that's why I took a very skeptical German geologist with me to dive on that stone circle that I've just been describing because I realized that there's just no point in me arguing that these things are traces of an earlier civilization if geologists can stand up and say, hey, they're just natural.
		They're not even man-made at all.
		So I needed to rule that out, and I'm glad to say that that has been ruled out in the question of this massive stone circle at Karama.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold it right there.
		When we come back, we'll try to get to the phones.
		Graham Hancock is my guest.
		The questioning, I'm sure, will go all over the place, as Graham has gone all over the place.
		I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		Though I would not give you false hope or the strain more day, but the mother child, you were your motion away.
		Oh, with a thoughtful man, I care for the life of me.
		Number Saturday from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First time Callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222 or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To recharge on the toll-free international line, call your ATZ operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I call this relevancy in bumper music.
		Good morning, everybody.
		Graham Hancock is here, and we're talking about ancient civilizations far below the water, going back, OG, 11,000, 11,500 years.
		Long, long time, a lot longer than we originally thought anything could really be out there.
		And we'll get right back to it in your phone calls in a moment.
		All right, I want to remind everybody, the best way to handle with transatlantic or Pacific calls, there is a little time lag.
		So the best way to handle this is to have you ask a question in its entirety and then pause and allow Graham to respond to it.
		Otherwise, if you try to conduct a very fast-paced two-way conversation, you end up sort of walking over each other.
		So it's kind of a learned talent.
		And so that's probably how you should try and ask your question of Graham.
		Just before going to the phones, and that's what we're about to do, since we have found so much evidence for those with minds open enough, or in your case, people who are able to dive and see the evidence for themselves of something that occurred 11,000, 11,500 years ago, whatever, this great flood, then is there any evidence at all of going back yet another period or another period?
		In other words, anything suggesting that this may be a cyclical thing that happens about every 11,500 years?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I haven't concerned myself with areas further back than the end of the last ice age because it seems to me the simplest and the most obvious solution to the problem of the myth and to the problem of very puzzling underwater structures.
		But I mean, one thing to bear in mind is I think most scientists are agreed that anatomically modern human beings, people who look just like you and me, who behave just like you and me, have been around for more than 100,000 years, possibly a lot more, but certainly for more than 120,000 years.
		And it does seem bizarre that we should only achieve one high civilization, one pattern of civilization during that time.
		I mean, starting from about 5,000 years ago or so, perhaps a bit before that.
		What were we doing with ourselves during the other 95,000 years?
		That's the problem for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Possibly coming and going at intervals.
		Yeah.
		All right.
		Well, let's go to the phones.
		A lot of people want to ask you questions.
		West Milakies, you're on the air with Graham Hamdock.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, is it me then?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, where are you, Eva?
unidentified		I am in Idaho.
unidentified		This is Eileen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Eileen, I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Okay, I actually have a question basically in regards to the debunkers of your theory.
		When I was in high school during my American history class, my history teacher had put to us, why does every culture have a flood story?
		And then his response to that was because every culture has always been built on a waterfront.
		And you addressed that a little bit earlier.
		However, recently on PBS, I saw something that said that after, or during one of the ice ages, I want to say it's the Bering Sea.
		I am probably wrong.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		The Bering Strait, between Alaska and Siberia.
unidentified		Okay, that there was a break in the landmass that caused, that did cause a very serious flood that was imprinted into humanity's subconscious, and everybody built a story around it, a myth around it.
		The thing is, is, okay, that explains Europe.
		How does it explain the fact that even Native Americans have a flood story?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Because the flood or flooding was a universal phenomenon at the end of the Ice Age, I again come back to the basic figures which geologists accept, which is that all around the world, the amount of coastline, it's not just coastline, in the case of China, for example, 1,000 miles of coast was just wiped out.
		That when you add all these areas up, you come to an area which is 10 million square miles, which is as big as a continent that has been swallowed up by the sea and never properly looked at by archaeologists.
		It's true that there's a thing called marine archaeology, but they're primarily interested in shipwrecks because they don't believe that there are anything of great interest to find underwater regarding human settlements.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, somebody sent me an interesting note by computer when we were wondering earlier about the world's major technological militaries like ours and the Soviets and so forth.
		They said, well, look, you can imagine that if they had seen, plotted, or seen on sonar or even visually any of the things we're talking about right now, they would certainly not say so because that would identify exactly where their subs had been.
		And they don't do those things in the military.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		There would be no incentive for announcing this at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Quite the opposite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Graham.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I wanted to ask if you could share an area where I could do some research on the biblical flood.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I know a gentleman who visits my website quite regularly, who is an expert on the subject and has very intriguing views about it.
		He's called Ward Sanford.
		And I suggest you check into my website, into the message board on my website, and have a look there.
		You'll see his name has come up if you run the search and follow what he's been saying.
		I think you could find that very interesting.
unidentified		That's Ward Sanford.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Ward Sanford.
		Ward Sanford, S-A-N-F-O-R-D.
		And in fact, I know that he's planning a book specifically on the issue of the biblical flood in a year or so from now.
		And my website is www.grahamhancock.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And of course, we have a link on my site.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		And you have a link on your site.
		If you go to the message board there and search the name Ward Sanford, you'll find some interesting posts which will lead you in other directions.
		There's also a book by Ryan and Pittman called Noah's Flood, which is attempting to trace Noah's Flood to the Black Sea.
		Yeah?
		Because the Black Sea was cataclysmically flooded at the end of the Ice Age as well.
		What happened was that I have to express this in kilometers because I don't know it in miles, but the area of the Black Sea is half a million square kilometers.
		And that area was flooded very rapidly at the end of the Ice Age, quite late, around about 7,500 years ago.
		And these two scholars, and they both are major scholars, believe that that may have been the source of the flood of Noah story in the Bible.
		My only criticism of that is that that's half a million square kilometers, but in fact, in square kilometers, 25 million square kilometers were flooded around the world.
		And I think, and the place really to be looking for direct connections to the biblical flood may more likely be in the Persian Gulf, which was another area that was extensively flooded at the end of the Ice Age.
		It was a beautiful area, a wonderful valley during the Ice Age with a huge river flowing through it.
		It's almost like the Garden of Eden, the combined streams of the Tigris and the Euphrates.
		No water in the Gulf at all from the sea, and then with the rising sea levels it was flooded and it all went underwater.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's so hard for the average person to even begin to grasp these concepts that everything could have been so different and so changed and that the maps would all be different, land masses would be different.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Everything changes.
		The whole face of the earth changes.
		One of the best ways to see this is graphically, and I do have a TV series with this, which will go out on the Learning Channel in the U.S. in a couple of months, where we show this graphically.
		When you take all the latest data on sea level rise and apply it to the globe, you see that the globe looked staggeringly different 12 or 14,000 years ago, and you suddenly realize that it's really possible that archaeologists just haven't been looking in the right place because they've been thinking with a modern mindset, not an Ice Age mindset.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcardline, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, gentlemen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		This is Kat from near San Francisco.
		Okay.
		Graham, I do sincerely believe that perhaps your landslide theory on the city outside of Cuba is perhaps the wrong geological approach.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It could be.
		It's not really a theory or even my theory.
		It was actually a theory that was mentioned to me by a geologist who was trying to explain what these ruins, if anything, could be of Cuba.
		So I don't claim to be a specialist on the Cuban ruins.
		I think they're just another intriguing discovery, and I'm confident we're going to see much more information about them during the coming year.
		So tell me what you think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, now, Graham, I don't know whether you know or not.
		The latest news is that not only have they the side-scan radar in which they said they saw buildings, pyramidal shapes, roads, every sign of a metropolitan type city, actually, but now they've been down with video cameras and they've come back with additional evidence.
		And National Geographic is apparently involved in some way or another.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's great.
		I mean, that's what we want to see.
		We want to see the video from the site.
		Unfortunately, no diver is ever going to be able to go down to that depth, but we can go down in submersibles, and that's what's needed next.
		And I'm hoping that the reason that there's been a silence on this, a relative silence since the first announcements were made, is that the discoverers are putting together a proper expedition to do this job properly so that lots of nitpicking stupidity cannot be directed against them afterwards.
		If they're involved with National Geographic, that's great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is precisely what is occurring right now, Graham.
		They're keeping it very tightly held.
		I've had Linda Moulton Howe's done several interviews with Paulina Zelitsky.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yep, we've talked to her too, yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there you are, and she's given us the lowdown.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, they're keeping quiet generally in the media about all of this for a few years.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		They're wise to do so until they can deliver really persuasive proof.
		Because as I said earlier, the automatic reaction of the establishment to news like this is to try to crush it at the outset before it has a chance to grow.
		And that's when it's most vulnerable.
		So they're right to keep their cards close to their chest until they're in a position to go public.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm down around Corpus Christi.
		Okay.
		I want to thank you for a great program, Dart, and you keep these truck drivers awake out here early in the morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're very welcome.
unidentified		Graham, you're talking about the great flood and everything and how it covered up the coastal areas and they're talking about quickening and the climate and the Arctic melt and that it's going to cover up more coastlines.
unidentified		Does that mean in another 10,000 years or eventually the whole Earth is going to be covered with water?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		No.
		I don't think that that's there just isn't enough water on the Earth to do that.
		That cannot happen.
		But we could look at a 40 or 50 foot rise in sea level.
		That's not out of the question at all if Antarctica melts down.
		And 40 or 50 feet rise in sea level would be a catastrophic disaster for our civilization.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would be interesting to project a 50 foot raise in sea level and simply show a new map.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that could be done right now, couldn't it?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, it would wipe out every coastal city in the world for a start.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		And most of the great cities, New York, San Francisco, Tokyo, London, are pretty much coastal cities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All gone.
		All gone.
		And you would have an utterly new map.
		It does not seem to me that it would be that difficult for somebody to produce sea levels.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It can definitely be done.
		The geologists That I've been working with, obviously, with a team in Britain because that's where I'm based, they're at the University of Durham in the north of England.
		They have one of the best computer models of sea level rise in the past, but equally good models exist in geology departments in the US.
		And you can take that model which looks at lowered sea level in the past and the gradual rise of sea level.
		I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be possible to project it forward as well and look at what a 50-foot rise in sea level would do.
		I hope one day these programs are going to be available to the public because it just enables you to stand on any coastline in the world at any period in the last 20,000 years and see how it would have looked within all the best evidence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or how it may look.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Or how it may look.
		But it can be predictive as well.
		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you are on the air with Graham Hancock.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Okay.
		Hi, Art.
		And Graham.
		Yeah, Art, for you.
		We had a storm.
		I'm in the darkness of Coos Bay.
		My name's Jack.
		I'm in the darkness of Coos Bay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oregon.
unidentified		We had a storm come in here of 70 mile-an-hour winds.
		It knocked down the poles.
		I have a 7,600-volt line in the front of my yard.
		If it wasn't that I had emergency power, well, I probably wouldn't be talking to you right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the whole world right now is experiencing that.
unidentified		Yeah, and the weatherman couldn't predict it.
		It came in.
		You just believed it was possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand, sir.
unidentified		Do you have a question for Graham?
unidentified		Anyway, for Graham, yeah, you know, we're about, what, 11,000 years past what's considered the meltdown of the Ice Age, are we not?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, it carried on until about 7,000 years ago.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		But if you were looking for a central focus of it, that would be roughly between 14 and 11,000 years ago.
unidentified		Yeah, okay.
		Well, anyway, the thing is, I sit at 65 feet above.
		I'm on an inlet bay is where I'm at.
		Anyway, I'm 65 feet above the bay.
		Anyway, but I was looking at this.
		They talk about if Antarctica melted off, we'd have a rise of 300 feet.
		Well, we've already risen, what, 150 feet, have we not?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Since the end of the ice age?
		More than sea level.
		The sea level rise since the end of the ice age has been 400 feet.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
unidentified		So the thing is, is we don't have too much more to go, is what you'll be saying yes.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the most threatening ice mass is the ice mass on Antarctica, and scientists have been aware how dangerous it is for quite a while.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I believe it's the East Antarctic ice sheet, which could theoretically slip into the sea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the problem with that is that it would occur almost as an instantaneous thing.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, if it came as a slide of a massive quantity of ice at once, this would have very catastrophic effects.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if an ice sheet the size of Canada falls into the sea, you can imagine what sort of splash it's going to make.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And tidal waves.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		And the displacement of huge amounts of water.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that on its own would be a worldwide cataclysm of horrific extent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, this is Mike from Amargosa Calling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I wanted to say something about earthquakes in two of the areas that Graham described in India.
		In October, there was a 0.6 earthquake in the ocean 50 kilometers from Pondicherry.
		Yep, on the east coast of India, southeast.
		And I happen to be around 150 kilometers from there at the time, so I can tell you for sure there was an earthquake.
		And the Indian newspaper said that because of this Pondicherry quake, the scientists would have to redraw the earthquake zone map of India because previously they had not considered this to be a high-risk area.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's very interesting.
unidentified		An earthquake, now you say this was 200 kilometers offshore?
		Oh, no, 50 kilometers from Pondicherry towards the ocean.
		In other words, in the ocean, 50 kilometers from Pondicherry.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I get you.
		Yeah.
		Yeah, this is unusual.
		Earthquakes in that area are unusual.
		It's a stable part of the continent.
		Up in northern India, different matter, of course.
		In northwest India, very bad earthquakes as a result of mountain building processes there.
		But in southeast India, no, it's supposed to be stable, so that is interesting.
unidentified		Yes, the one in the north, of course, was famous, being devastating, the one in Gujarat.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That was one of the worst earthquakes that have occurred for a very long time, and it had catastrophic effects in Gujarat, which can still be seen to this day because I was out there relatively recently.
		But that's an area where you expect earthquakes and where they're regular.
		But in Southeast India, they're not.
unidentified		Yeah, well, since with this new information, I guess they can be expected now there also, it would seem that two of these civilizations that are underwater may actually be in earthquake zones.
unidentified		So I thought that might be interesting.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It's a very interesting point and one worth developing because the scientists who are studying the end of the ice age have found a very curious link between periods of rapid meltdown of the ice and periods of increased earthquake and volcanic activity around the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm sorry, Graham.
		I've got to take a break here.
		We're at the bottom of the average.
		Hold on.
		Call her very briefly.
		You're in Armagosa?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To what station are you listening?
unidentified		Well, right now, 95.1.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		95.1.
		K-N-Y-E, sir.
		Oh, sorry.
		Thank you, and good morning.
		All righty, bye-bye.
		We'll take a break here.
		95.1 KNYE here in Peruvi.
		He's hearing in our Magosa.
		Graham Hancock is my guest.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		How are we doing, Josie?
		Oh, my goodness by your side.
		Happy birthday.
		You know it's just your foolish friend Yeah, love Got me on my knees When it's all right and it's coming on We gotta get right back to where we started from
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nive.
		You ever listen to the words of this and it's all right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it's coming on?
		We've got to get back to where we started from?
		It's coming on.
		Maybe it is all right.
		Maybe it's just the way things happen.
		The question is, of course, that we don't exactly know where we started, but we're in the midst of finding out.
		Once again, from across the land and across the sea, here is Graham Hancock.
		Graham, welcome back.
		Thank you.
		Lots and lots of people waiting to speak with you, so here we go.
		First-time caller line, your turn with Graham Hancock.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Mark.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm calling from Yakima, listening to 1280KIT.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Washington, all right?
unidentified		In Washington.
		Hey, Graham, got a question for you.
		Are you familiar with the Pacific Northwest area?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I'm not extremely familiar with it because I've been to, you're talking Seattle and this kind of area.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've been there, but not very familiar with it.
unidentified		Not very familiar with it.
		Okay, well, my question was on the same topic as the last caller.
		In the past couple of years, we've had a lot of activity up here with earthquakes and so on and so forth.
		My curious thought is, what are your predictions within the next couple of years?
		What do you foresee happening with the Seattle area?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		You know, I'm not really in the prediction business, particularly local predictions.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I can look at sort of global trends and say what I think is going down, but I can't really give you a good answer to that question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I respect that enormously.
		We have plenty of people who do make those predictions.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Graham.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I'm from just outside of Kansas City.
		I'm listening to 1200 WOAI Adams Cincinnati.
		My question is, between 1986 and 1990, Archaeological Magazine published an article about some college students from UCLA being in the desert of either Arizona or Nevada, and they found a rock that wasn't indigenous to that area.
		They took this rock back, they did every test imaginable to it, and they ended up finally cutting it in half and finding a spark plug inside.
		How do you feel this falls in with your theories?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Very interesting.
		I've heard about many such examples.
		There's an excellent book called Forbidden Archaeology by Cremon Thompson, which brings in a lot of good data on these kind of out-of-place artifacts, as they're called.
		To be honest, I don't have a view on it.
		I find the world is such an amazing place and that human beings are such amazing creatures and that everything is just such a mystery to be alive.
		Frankly, I'm open to any possibility.
		I was saying a bit earlier that modern humans have been known to exist.
		I mean, people like us have been known to exist for about 100 or 120,000 years.
		But that doesn't mean that our species has not existed longer.
		I think that one of the great mysteries still to be solved is the origin of humanity.
		So I don't think we can rule out completely vastly older levels and layers of civilization.
		It's just something that I'm not, you know, one only has so much time, and my time I focus on the most recent and most likely episode, which is the end of the Ice Age, and that's just 17,000 down to 7,000 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on there with Graham Hancock.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		Hello, gentlemen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hi.
unidentified		Hi.
		This is Chris from Chicago.
		The late Jock East Cousteau, when he was investigating the Bemini Wall, claimed that he had a lot of problems with magnetic compasses, and that they gave out and quit.
		And I was wondering if you had any such trouble in your investigations.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've dived at Bimini quite extensively.
		I've made two quite major expeditions there.
		I did not notice magnetic anomalies, although I've heard of these.
		But I do think that, you know, the Bimini Road, as it's called, was written off by scholars back in the 1970s.
		A bunch of geologists went over, they looked at it, they concluded that it's a natural formation made up of a thing called beach rock, which indeed does break up into blocky, regular formations.
		But I think that the work was done on this in the 70s was way too limited to come to such a conclusion.
		And there's a great deal of contradiction in the evidence.
		And what none of the evidence takes into account at Bimini is that Bimini stood on the northwest end of an enormous island during the Ice Age.
		The whole of the Grand Bahama Bank was exposed 400 feet above sea level and would have been a much more attractive place to live than the continental United States at that time, which was frozen stiff.
		So I think when we assess the Bimini Road, we have to assess the Ice Age history of the area as well.
		And that so far hasn't been done.
		I've tried to do it in my new project.
unidentified		I also think that it's noteworthy That some of these findings off the coast of Cuba and Okinawa coincide with the lost cities of Atlantis and Mew, also the Bermuda Triangle and the Devil's Triangle?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've got a whole range of ideas and thoughts about mysterious parts of the world, some of which are better substantiated than others.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		But I think the one common factor which connects all of these places is that they were above water at the end of the Ice Age and are underwater now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
		Good morning.
		Hello.
		Good morning.
		Yes, sir.
		You're on the air.
		Okay, my name's Ralph.
unidentified		I'm from Montana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Got a question regarding the Great Floods of Missoula.
		I'm sure you're not.
		The Missoula flood, yes, Lake Missoula, Glacial Lake Missoula.
		Yeah, and I was wondering how that might relate to the overall scheme of your discussion.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It related very closely to it.
		When you talk about rising sea levels, obviously they have to rise because water is pouring into the sea.
		And the reason, what happened when the ice caps at the end of the ice age melted, first off, let's take a step back.
		When we talk about these ice caps that covered North America and Northern Europe, these things were two miles thick, and they covered millions of square miles.
		Now, you're looking at just an enormous amount of ice.
		All that ice was formed by water that had come out of the sea.
		So when the ice melted, it all had to go back into the sea.
		And what happened was this did not happen gradually.
		The ice would melt at a regular rate, but it would form huge lakes on the ice cap itself, enormous lakes, which gradually filled up with meltwater and were sealed off from the sea by a plug of ice.
		When that plug of ice, when that wall of ice broke, as it inevitably and eventually would, then all the water that had been stored up for maybe 2,000 or 3,000 years before in a glacial lake, all of it would flush out into the ocean like a toilet slushing in one huge event.
		And the flooding from Glacial Lake Missoula, which happened more than once, is exactly an example of that.
		You're looking at massive waves of water.
		Some of the calculations show waves 1,000 feet high tearing down the ice caps.
		So you're looking not only at the sea level rising and immersing coastlines, but also terrifying events on land itself as these ice caps broke down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thousand-foot wave.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's something to think about, isn't it?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It's something to think about, and it should remind us that these floods were coming off the land into the sea, as well as from the sea onto the land.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, yeah, yeah.
		First time caller wine.
		You're on the air with Graham Hancock.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		Hi, Graham.
		I'm Georgia.
		I'm calling from Birmingham.
		We're listening to you on WERC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, ma'am.
unidentified		And I was wondering, you've touched on the Atlantis theory a few times, but it always puzzled me that Atlantis could be one civilization in one spot.
		And I always wondered a civilized that advanced would have expanded itself.
		Well, if you look like now, that's what they're finding out.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It is exactly what's being found out.
		And of course, if we take Atlantis back to the original, the oldest surviving source of the myth is in the work of Plato.
		And he does say that the Atlantis empire, as he called it, was widespread, that it was in the Mediterranean as well as in the Atlantic, and that the events that destroyed it took place in the Mediterranean as well as in the Atlantic, and that they took place around 11,500 years ago.
		There's only one thing that was happening then which fits the bill, and that is this cataclysmic rise in sea level.
		So I think it is a much more widespread thing than just one civilization.
unidentified		Well, it always struck me that the civilization that advanced would have just stayed in one spot anyway.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		No, it would not have stayed in one spot.
		It might have chosen to stay close to the sea.
		I think just as the world today has different levels of social development in it, that was probably the case in the past as well.
		And these may have been people who did not want to go far inland, particularly when the climate inland was very bad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would certainly make sense, and they would not be, of course, as widespread as we are today.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Definitely not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So such an event today would leave survivors, but it would be a world you would not recognize, right?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		You'd not recognize it.
		And, you know, we've all become such specialists in the modern world.
		I mean, we each do our particular thing well, but we don't know how anybody else does their thing.
		And it's a terrifying prospect to consider the disruption to society that would occur with such an event.
		And I suspect that our technology-based society is more fragile than it seems to be, simply because of this specialization of knowledge.
		Because I depend on people who know things that I just don't know and I'm never going to know.
unidentified		Graham.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		And that's true of everyone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Graham, let me ask you this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If some science begins to recognize that we may be on the precipice of an event of this sort, or maybe close to it, do you believe that those counseling governments who are in charge of protecting us somehow or another, what would they do with this information?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've always been doubtful whether real information about an impending global cataclysm would be shared.
		I think that people in government would find lots of reasons to persuade themselves not to share it.
		And in a way, that's what government does.
		It lies about things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly how it survives, actually.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It's part of the definition of what a government is, unfortunately.
		So I'm very suspicious of any early warning system actually being communicated to the public simply because, you know, the officials and the bureaucrats concerned would worry about panic, and they would say, well, maybe it's not going to happen.
		And anyway, we've got to look after ourselves.
		So, you know, all of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		A wildcard line, you're on air with Graham Hancock.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in actually Prince George of British Columbia, Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		My name is David, by the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, David.
unidentified		We all know that South America is ripped away from Africa.
unidentified		Like it put together like puzzle pieces.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Long time ago, yeah.
unidentified		And the Mid-Atlantic Ridge rips from North Pole to South Pole, basically.
		Sure.
		I've been looking at a globe, and just a theory.
		If Aries Rock was a meteor, and you know how when a meteor hits, the center of it will bubble back up?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
unidentified		If Aries Rock did that, created Australia, the other side of the planet would rip open.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's called isostasy.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		You get the effect on the other side of the planet for sure.
unidentified		So, I don't know if that's a good theory or a bad theory.
unidentified		It just seems to fit the bill.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I mean, certainly if you're looking at, let's take an example of a known asteroid strike, which is the so-called KT event 65 million years ago, where a big asteroid in the Yucatan hit into the Yucatan.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, that caused disruption on the Antipodeal, the opposite side of the Earth, when that happened.
unidentified		But it certainly didn't rip a giant rip down the planet like the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It didn't do that.
unidentified		But the evidence is there.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Of a giant rip down the planet?
		Yeah.
		Yeah, not necessarily caused by a collision event, though.
		I mean, the planet has its own dynamism.
unidentified		No.
		Another thing I was going to get into was in China with the giant pyramid and the pyramid at Giza and various other pyramids around the planet.
		They seem to attract or concentrate kinetic or magnetic energies.
		Now, if you knew something was going to happen and you were able, or if the magnetic, the pull of the planet was in flux and you could lift up a thousand-pound block of stone and maneuver it where you wanted to, could this not, if the planet was in flux, when the planet was in flux, could not that centralized magnetic field draw up from the planet?
		I don't know if you're.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I'm getting into an area that's out of my depth here.
unidentified		Yeah, okay, the Great Wall, okay, here's one.
unidentified		The Great Wall of China, could that not have been built as a water break?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I think very unlikely.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I've walked the Great Wall of China, and I don't think it was a water break at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		The topography is too up and down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Thank goodness.
unidentified		I'm gone to ask this question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, huh?
unidentified		My name is Brandy.
		I'm in East Tennessee.
		I'm the one that called you and told you about the ear candles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, thank you, Brandy.
unidentified		Was that Yummy or what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was a traumatizing experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, do you have a question for Graham?
unidentified		I have.
unidentified		Mr. Hancock, did I hear you, you were talking early about radio commendating how you sometimes get in trouble for discounting it?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've often got into trouble for discounting it.
		Actually, it's not that I discount it.
		It's just that I believe that the Orthodox academic case is already so well-made and so publicly made, and we take it in with our mother's milk, that there was a time when I felt it wasn't my obligation to put the orthodox side of the case, more to put the unorthodox and alternative side.
		But I think it's important to take carbon dating into account.
unidentified		Well, Greg, my question is, from what I understand, is it can be that the results can be tainted on the sample in any number of ways.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		They can.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Carbon dating is very susceptible to contamination.
unidentified		That's why, that is why.
unidentified		I do not understand why it's such a rock for archaeology when it can be thrown off all the time by anyone.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		You're absolutely right.
		It can be and it is thrown off, and this is one of the reasons that I've been leery about carbon dating in the past.
		What I've observed is that when carbon dates support a mainstream theory, then those carbon dates are automatically accepted without question.
		When the carbon dates contradict a mainstream theory, they're treated as anomalies and ignored.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's kind of like a lie detector.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Because they don't have anything better.
		That's why they lay on it so much?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, they write on it because it is a good method within its limits.
		The limits involve contamination, first and foremost.
		And secondly, the fact that the test can only be run on organic materials.
		And you have to make the assumption that the organic material is as old as the structure you're looking at.
		And that assumption sometimes is incorrect.
unidentified		Okay.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
		West of the Rockies.
		You're on the air with not a lot of time left with Graham Hancock.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, this is Jim in Cambie, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back to Antarctica.
unidentified		Now, Antarctica itself is a landmass, correct?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It's a couple of land masses, yeah.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		What is the percentage of land mass versus the percentage of ice mass?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I actually don't know.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I'm honestly not sure.
unidentified		Okay, because I was curious if this.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		It's an interesting question, and of course, the ice itself, were you to remove that ice all at once, it wouldn't show the total amount of land because the ice itself presses down on the land underneath it and forces that land down perhaps as much as half a mile into the Earth's crust.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		So when the ice is lifted off, the land would rebound and gradually more land would emerge.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very interesting.
		Very interesting.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Graham Mancock.
		Hello.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Temecula.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Temecula, all right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		I had a quest for Grant.
		You had a caller, or Art had a caller, I believe it was last week.
		He was talking about Hollow Earth.
		And he said that there was a place up there, Crocker Island, up in Arctic.
		Up in the Arctic?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And he says that they were saying sometime, or the Eskimos were saying, that the Vikings, sometime during an ice age, had moved north up to that area.
unidentified		Now, if they had done so, and you're talking about the advanced civilizations, how advanced would they be today if they were still there?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have to say, I believe in lots of things, or I'm open-minded to lots of things, but the hollow earth theory isn't one of them.
		I just don't buy that at all.
		I think it contradicts all the good evidence we have, and I think it's irrational to pursue it.
		Not that I object to people pursuing it if they want to.
		It's just not for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, we know something about the Earth's innards, but not a very great deal.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		No, it's true.
		It's a great terra incognita, literally.
		Literally.
		And a fascinating subject.
		But sometimes I find that it's possible to move the argument on too far.
		So you find yourself so far out on a limb that you're not arguing about anything sensible.
		And that's why I personally stay away from Hollow Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, y'all, what you're doing is tough enough and going to meet stiff enough resistance without.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I don't want to create another stick for my own back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So your book is out in Great Britain right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People are going to be able to do that.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Can I just say again, my website?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		You've got a link to on yours, which is www.grahamhancock.com.
		We have a news desk on that website which has got links to a lot of the world press on the Indian underwater cities.
		People just need to come back through that.
		And then the message board has had a lot of discussion on this subject, and anybody would be welcome to come and join in and join us discussing these subjects.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where does your investigation go from here?
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Well, in less than a month's time, I go back to Southeast India to the site that I mentioned there, which has this enormous U-shaped structure and 27 other structures.
		We've got a specialist team going there with high-tech equipment, and we're going to explore and map all of these structures and try to get samples from them which can be dated.
		And that's being done in conjunction with India's National Institute of Oceanography.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Graham, I hope once you've done that, we can have you back on and get the latest right away.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		I'd love it if we could do that.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Definitely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
		And I hope your website can take all the hits.
		Thanks, Art.
		Graham, it's been a pleasure.
		Thank you.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Real nice to talk to you again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, my friend.
graham hancock ▲ ● ▼		Keep well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bye.
		Bye-bye.
		That's Graham Hancock, boy.
		It's been a long, long time.
		Great guy.
		Kind of a modern Indiana Jones underwater.
		Ta-ta.
unidentified		You know, don't come reason.
		You know, come reason.
		You know, don't come behind.
		I'm just waiting to wanna see the truth.
		And you know, don't come be sleeping.

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