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Feb. 7, 2002 - Art Bell

02:43:40

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Graham Hancock - Ancient Underwater Ruins

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	♪♪ From the high desert and the great American Southwest,
	I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be across all 24 time zones,
	covered by this globe-arm-armed bell.
	And this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Well, I've got so much to tell you about.
	There's so much to get to here that I'm not sure where to start.
	Last night...
	Obviously, we weren't here, and we had to repeat why.
	I'm going to tell you why.
	The night before, we had Dr. Edward Tenor as a guest, and he wrote a book called, Why Things Bite Back.
	Technology and the Revenge of Unintended Consequences, which is an incredible topic now.
	It's almost too much for even me, and I deal with this kind of stuff all the time.
	Here's the best non-technical explanation I can give you.
	Alright?
	Here's what happened on that night.
	Dr. Tenner's telephone lines were not tenable.
	Sorry, Dr. Tenner.
	They were not tenable.
	They kept fading into nothingness and we had some bizarre noise, high frequency type noise on the phone lines that was getting worse and worse and worse and noisier and noisier and noisier.
	And it did throughout the night.
	Now, There are two things.
	Of course, we terminated the interview with Dr. Tenner, it not being tenable, and we'll have to reschedule that.
	But here we are talking about this topic, and a careful investigation, a technical investigation, with the telephone company involved.
	You know, they were looking at the lines and saying, it's not on our end, you know, it's on your end, as they usually do.
	So, we suppose, okay, it might be on our end.
	So, we use a telephone system here to put people, all of you on the air, and the guests and everything else, called a Ginter phone system.
	And we have to suspect either the phone lines themselves, bearing in mind there had just been a bizarre accident just down the street here in Plum, Nevada, on the street that I'm just off of, and Two cops visiting from Arizona plowed into a phone pole doing... They're still trying to figure out how much, you know, like 80 miles an hour.
	Something like that.
	Anyway, the phone pole came down like a, you know, poof!
	That was just down the street.
	So, you've got to suspect a little bit the possibility of phone line troubles.
	Right?
	Nevertheless, to be on the safe side, the network immediately shipped off A Gentner unit, a second Gentner unit to me, which is now on standby, sitting here next to me and on standby.
	The weird part is that as of last night, after 10 o'clock, when the show would have been on, I was sitting here testing and testing and testing this Gentner, trying to figure out what's going on with it, and the trouble simply quit.
	The trouble quit!
	And so I sat here, having dialed a line myself, listening, you know, with a pot all the way up as loud as I could, listening to this horrible noise, and it never came back.
	And then I listened today again, you know, I've been paying very strict attention to this, as you might imagine, and the noise didn't come back.
	So now we're thinking, hmm, do we replace the Big Gettner, you know, which I'm capable of doing, I can replace it here in about a half hour, or not?
	Well, problem is, suddenly it's whatever in the hell was wrong is not wrong anymore, and we're liable to cause more unintended consequences by replacing something that's working.
	You know, they say you never fix anything if it's working, right?
	So it's working, but will it stay working?
	Now, all of this, as I'm doing a show, On why things bite back.
	Technology and the revenge of unintended consequences.
	I'm telling you it has me thinking.
	It really has me thinking about whether a lot of times the things that I talk about and mentally contemplate on this program.
	I refer you to last night's program.
	The things that I contemplate on this program Maybe, in some way, the mass mind, all of you, or even my mind, caused whatever happened the night before last to happen.
	I swear, I'm giving it very careful consideration because nothing else makes very much sense.
	I sometimes, I'm really coming to believe that things I talk about become manifested around me, either because all of us are thinking about it, or because I am.
	But more likely, all of us, as we did the experiments we did, my guess would be all of us.
	When we get our minds going on something like this, then I'll be damned if it doesn't happen, if it isn't caused.
	And I'm not rejecting that scenario, As being responsible for what happened the night before last.
	I don't know.
	It's a strange world we live in, folks.
	Listen, I've got something really pretty funny or weird.
	Really, it is very funny to watch.
	It's kind of pathetic.
	It's called the Taliban Olympics.
	And it's a video, and it's on my website right now at rpl.com.
	Under What's New, just click on Video Telebathletics.
	And then click on MPEG video.
	You're going to have to have a pretty good line.
	It's a 2 meg file or something.
	But this announcer is like a big Olympic outside setting.
	And this announcer is announcing what's about to happen.
	You know, it's like it's an Olympic event of some kind.
	And then the camera pans up to the top of this gigantic cliff, you know, and here's this guy getting ready to do a perfect Olympic dive, you know, into water, only there's no water, and he preps at the top and does a perfect, you know, he does his head both ways, kind of correcting his muscles, puts his hands up and does a swan dive, Off this cliff, uh, to hundreds of feet below, and like a sack of wet cement, he hits the ground.
	There's no water.
	He has just dived into the ground.
	And it's obviously Afghanistan-y.
	We don't know where it comes from, but it's pretty, you know, it's funny or pathetic or we can't speak the language, so we don't know what's being said.
	Maybe some of you can help out there, but it's pretty crazy.
	Really crazy, actually.
	There are several other things we're going to try to get up by the bottom of the hour that have been sent to me this evening.
	One orb photo, you're not going to believe.
	There are orbs and there are orbs.
	Wait until you see this orb.
	Alright, so what's going on in the world?
	The Bush administration now plans to apply legal protections under the 1949 Geneva Convention to capture Taliban soldiers.
	Meanwhile, a plane carrying 28 detainees from the war in Afghanistan landed today at the naval base, so the numbers there are growing.
	They will now be protected under the Geneva Convention.
	A skeptical congressional subcommittee was told by former Enron chief executive Jeffrey Skilling today that he knew of nothing improper about the complex web of partnerships that doomed the company.
	Ensuing fallout, draining the savings of millions of investors and employees.
	Just, you know, whatever you had, gone.
	So, this continues to be a gigantic story, and there is going to be so much more to hear.
	The Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, again said today that he thinks an eventual Palestinian state is probably a pretty good idea.
	The President of the US agreeing, And there was an incident on a UAL, United Airlines flight from Miami to Buenos Aires.
	And apparently a passenger, for whatever unknown reason, tried to force his way into the cockpit.
	Not a, you know, good thing to do these days.
	You're not going to be regarded very well if you try to push your way into a cockpit door, and he was not.
	The co-pilot had an axe.
	You know, I guess they have an axe.
	God knows what for.
	Maybe to control fires or something?
	I don't know.
	In a cockpit, you wouldn't think he'd use an axe.
	But he had an axe, somehow.
	And he took the axe and whacked the guy.
	It was about a ten-minute struggle.
	But the FBI has him.
	Russia angrily has denounced a CIA report.
	They never like our CIA reports.
	That questions the Kremlin's willingness and ability to prevent the spread of dangerous technology, a sign of renewed tension following a sharp improvement in relations in the wake of the September 11th attacks.
	Things have been better with Russia, but they're pretty angry that we are saying, you know, they're not doing a whole lot to protect the world from spreading weapons of mass destruction.
	if you will stay right there i have all right i read this uh...
	in uh... later in the show on the night of the uh... unexpected uh...
	bewildering consequences so i want to read this again This is a very, very interesting article.
	And I'm not sure now how we're going to follow up on this.
	This was translated from a newspaper in South America from Russia.
	And I'll try to tell you a little more about that if I can.
	But here it is.
	Russia has its own time machine.
	How scientists claims include having built a machine that enables visits to the past.
	Moscow.
	ANSA, that's Alphanora Sugar Alpha News Service.
	In the third millennium Russia, now fully converted to capitalism and market economy, there are still those who would like to return to the old USSR.
	A time machine, completely made in Russia, has been built for these irrepressible nostalgics.
	According to the devices, or according to the Russian engineer, Vladimir Serbinov, The Machine, popularized in H.G.
	Wells, a novel far from being a literary creation, is in fact a scientific endeavor of its own, although still in its infancy, in fact, notes the scientist.
	Those who attempt to return to the past to keep certain historical events from occurring, for example, the collapse of the Soviet Union, would fail in the attempt and would run the risk of not being able to return to the future.
	His opinion, I suppose.
	Sermonov machine is a remarkable machine that he claims is now taking people, not people, but things, just a few moments into the past.
	Just a few moments into the past.
	Within it are rotating magnetic fields, strong rotating electromagnetic fields.
	That either increase or decrease the flow of time.
	And they have proven this by having high precision time pieces inside.
	The capsule is about two meters in diameter, very similar to Yuri Gagarin's first Vostok spacecraft.
	I mean, they're saying they've got a time machine, folks!
	Now, This could be a bogus story.
	You know, we have no way of knowing.
	Scott Corrales is the one who translated the story, and we've contacted him, and he just, you know, he simply doesn't know, of course.
	He just did the translation, doesn't know any more about it, and I'm not sure how we're going to find out more about this story, but I am going to try.
	What if, what if Russia has a time machine?
	Not impossible.
	The Russians are pretty good when it comes to this kind of thing.
	So I'm going to watch that story closely.
	I don't know how I'm going to follow up, but I'm going to really try.
	Here's another big article about the resurgent sun.
	You know, we thought the solar peak had passed.
	But it hasn't.
	The sun is suddenly going berserk for a second time, or a second peak in this 11-year period.
	And it is indeed puzzling scientists.
	So, scientists are watching our Sun right now very carefully, and are probably a little bit nervous about what it's doing and why is it going berserk when it should be on the downside of the cycle.
	Instead, it's going higher than ever.
	And while we're on the subject of the Sun, here's an interesting article from London.
	Deaths from skin cancer melanoma have more than quadrupled in men, and more than trebled in women over the past 30 years.
	So that's a 400% increase in skin cancer.
	Now for those of you who doubt, you know, all of these things, the changes we're going through, you might want to really listen closely to this.
	30 years, That's our lifetimes, many of us, right?
	Skin cancer has quadrupled in men, and 300% increase in women.
	It was announced today, as government medical experts warned of the dangers of the sudden rise in package holidays, and ignorance over the potentially fatal effects of sunlight is the major cause of the massive increase in melanoma.
	Now, you know, It's the most deadly form of skin cancer.
	I just, I don't think I believe this.
	When I was a kid, sunburn was just something to laugh at, you know?
	If you went to the beach and did a bunch of surfing, as we did in Rhode Island, North Carolina, and Florida.
	When I was a kid, why, you know, you just, you get a sunburn, that's just part of going to the beach, hey.
	So, I really argue with this report.
	I mean, you think about it a little bit.
	For skin cancers to be increasing this much, in my generation we became aware of the dangers of too much sun.
	And, you know, along came sunscreens and all the rest of it.
	and now we have a 400% increase for men and a 300% increase for women.
	Now, I've just got this feeling there's something we don't quite fully understand going on here
	that has a definite relationship, obviously, to our son.
	There are about 40,000 people diagnosed with skin cancer each year in the United Kingdom and 2,000 of those die.
	And that's the UK, I might add, where They don't quite have the weather that we have here, say, in the desert.
	Most days, you know, London days, more times than not, are frankly pretty dreary.
	Clouds, drizzle, rain.
	Pretty common stuff in London.
	Not a lot of sun.
	So, what do you suppose has happened here?
	That's no trivial thing.
	A 400% increase for men, And a 300% increase for women.
	All of this as we get stories of the sun going rather berserk up there right now.
	Just something to sort of ponder.
	When I get back, I've got a couple of more things for you, and then we'll do open lines to the top of the hour tonight at the top of the hour.
	All the way from drizzly Great Britain.
	I don't know what the weather is, really.
	It's Graham Hancock.
	It's been a long time since we've talked to Graham about the pyramids and such.
	We'll do that tonight.
	Technology allowing?
	It is tonight.
	My body's weak.
	I'm on the run.
	No time to sleep, I've got to ride, ride like the wind, to be free again.
	And I've got such a long way to go, to make it to the border of Mexico,
	so I ride like the wind, ride like the wind.
	...
	Sweet dreams are made of this, who am I to disagree?
	I travel the world and the seven seas, everybody's looking for something.
	Some of them want to use you, some of them want to get used by you,
	some of them want to abuse you, some of them want to be abused.
	Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from West of the Rockies at 1-800-9-4.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First-time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	East of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	To reach out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
	Well, it's been a long time since I've talked to Grandma Hancock, and I'm looking very much forward to that.
	Coming up at the top of the hour, open lines just around the corner.
	I have just one more little thing for you.
	Oh, by the way, it's an orb photograph now on my website.
	You've got to see.
	And I see the pixel people are already diving in.
	That's fine.
	We'll see what you believe.
	But it's one of the better orb photos.
	One of the weirder ones I've ever seen.
	And I've seen hundreds and hundreds of orb photos!
	So you might want to check this one out.
	Brand new on the website.
	Right now.
	Alright.
	Bye.
	Check this out.
	I really would like your opinion on this.
	Maybe you've got one, maybe you don't.
	I've had a lot of animal communicators on the program.
	I've never been fully satisfied.
	I've had the best, too.
	I've done some really good shows, actually, lately, on communication with animals and what they are and all the rest of it.
	Maybe you might want to consider this one, all right?
	It's called The Cat That Came Back from Hibbing.
	It's one of these stories you've heard before.
	Skittles finds his way from Wisconsin Does to Hibbing Home.
	What does it take for a lost cat named Skittles to find his way through 353 miles of rough terrain, trekking three miles a day in the dead of winter with wild animals and cars bearing down on him like an angry dog let off its leash?
	Answer?
	About 140 days.
	No catnip, no litter box, no meow mix, just the open road and an unflinching desire to be with his family.
	On January 14th, Skittles, an affectionate two-year-old orange tabby cat, strolled up to Charmin Sampson's home in Lake Kelly, her son Jason, not believing his eyes, carried him into the house, where the weary feline ate some food, collapsed Into the mother of all catnaps.
	It was the first time the Sampsons had seen a Skittle since Labor Day in the Wisconsin Dells area of southern Wisconsin.
	I knew it was Skittles, said Jason, 16.
	The cat has orange white paws, got a look to him, a unique look.
	Jason and his mom work at a water park in Wisconsin Dells over the summer, living in a trailer nearby with Skittles and their other cats.
	Cats would Rollick in nearby woods, when it came time to go home, after summer curses and skittles was, of course, missing, with school beginning the next day, they had to leave him behind.
	We called him and called him, Jason said, we just couldn't find him.
	Well, when Charmaine, a college student studying computer software programming, came home from a day of classes at Hemming Community College, her first thought was that her son had adopted another stray, but no, no, no!
	She says, I yelled, why is that cat here?
	He explained, uh, I told him no more cats, but he said, no mom, it's Skittles.
	Sure enough, a closer inspection revealed the dingy cat with calloused paws and protruding ribs was a neutered male that matched Skittles' coloring flawlessly.
	You could tell he was hungry, ate some food, then laid down next to me and slept.
	Two weeks later, Skittles now is back to his old routine, plays with the other family cats.
	He's still resting up.
	You know, this was a serious thing.
	But he purrs and snuggles.
	And to this day, no one knows how Skittles made it home.
	Now, you can either believe or disbelieve this story.
	I choose to certainly believe it.
	It was in the Daily Tribune in that area.
	Not sure of the town.
	And, you know, if you don't believe this one, then believe all the others.
	The animals have And I can't imagine what it is.
	Some incredible ability, some sense that we don't begin to have.
	How could they possibly?
	How could a cat possibly, or a dog, make it over hundreds and hundreds of miles and even have the slightest sense of where to go?
	Answer is, it of course couldn't.
	But it did.
	So, animals have something we really don't know about, and we should be doing a lot more investigation of this phenomena than we are.
	It means a lot.
	I don't know what, but I have a strong sense that it means a great deal when we finally discover what it is.
	All right.
	Into the night.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, this is Rose from the Reno area.
	Hello, Rose.
	And I'm talking about the Losantin Radio.
	When I was down in Shoshone.
	You're talking about the DT200V.
	I love mine.
	I got mine in my hand.
	Yeah.
	And anyway, I was in Shoshone.
	The first, second, and the third was on a Sunday night.
	I was going to leave there the next morning.
	Not Shoshone, Nevada, folks.
	Right.
	And I was listening to my little radio.
	We had been picking up First, the Indian station in New Mexico.
	Yes, very strong.
	And then I tried picking up KOH again, which had been coming in good.
	Oh, they bombed down here.
	And all of a sudden, all I got was static.
	And I kept trying, you know, all through the, you know, kept scanning the radio.
	And then a couple hours later I picked up KFDK in Sacramento.
	And that was strong.
	If you will listen on the radio, I will tell you what happened to you.
	It's simple.
	As I said, during a commercial, radio waves are controlled at night on those frequencies by the state of our ionosphere, that layer around Earth that bounces signals back.
	And the ionosphere in turn is controlled to a great extent by what goes on on the sun.
	And when there are flares on the sun, and there was one, for a period of time, all radio communications at times will disappear.
	All propagation, all the ability ...of radio stations, which normally bounce readily off the ionosphere, instead become absorbed by the ionosphere, because of the charged particles coming from the Sun, and everything gets absorbed.
	Nothing bounces back to Earth, and so that can happen for a period of hours.
	And it's been happening a lot lately, and it's because of the Sun.
	A wild card line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	Thank you for taking my call.
	You're very welcome.
	My heart is just pounding out of my chest because I'm so nervous, so please forgive me.
	No, just relax.
	By the way, my mom says you have a wonderful nighttime voice.
	Oh, thank you.
	I wanted to tell you about my experience with my four and a half year old.
	I'll just cut to the chase real quick and tell you that he saw my third eye and this happened the night before.
	I had been praying because I've got some health problems and praying to the archangels, you know, Michael, Raphael, Gabriel, and Uriel, and the next morning, I had just been in deep prayer that whole night, in meditation, and so the morning I was in kind of a twilight between awake and asleep, and I was just in that medium state there, that twilight zone.
	Yeah, and all of a sudden, I kid you not, I swear, I heard a Like a big, huge, loud hiss.
	I couldn't believe it.
	And then it was just amazing.
	I never heard anything so loud.
	Then what?
	Then through my closed eyelids, I saw like somebody was turning on a really, really intense light or bright light in the room.
	So I opened up my eyes to see what that could possibly be from because I was really surprised.
	There's nothing in my room that could be that bright.
	So I opened up my eyes and it was not a light from anywhere.
	It was just the morning light but nothing intense like that.
	Then later on, maybe about 20 minutes later, my son came in the room because he always
	hops in bed and we lay together and snuggle.
	He looked at me and seriously said, and I never have talked to him about this ever before,
	he looked at me and seriously said, I see your third eye.
	And I just was like a deer in headlights.
	I was so stunned.
	How old is your son?
	He's four and a half.
	How would your son know about the concept of a third eye?
	I don't know.
	I mean, he just wouldn't.
	Do you talk to him about the third eye?
	No, I don't.
	So he just came out of nowhere.
	He said, I saw your third eye.
	And he said it to me again and I didn't say anything.
	I thought, well, maybe he's seeing something.
	And then he said it to me a third time.
	And I was just like shocked.
	I was so shocked I couldn't even say anything.
	I didn't even think to pop up and look in the mirror.
	I was just shocked.
	I was like a deer in headlights.
	Then it took me a whole day to process the whole thing because I couldn't believe it.
	I told my husband about it.
	We were sitting at the dinner table with our son and he started asking Gabriel things I couldn't even.
	You know, think to ask him, you know, because I was so shocked.
	He said, well, what color was it?
	And he said, it was just like my other two eyes.
	And where was it?
	Oh, and at the time that that was happening.
	And where was it?
	Yes, where?
	Yeah, he was, at the time that that happened to me, he said he was, he was trying to point and he was at the time, you know, we were in bed together.
	Yes.
	He was pointing and trying to touch right between, you know, my eyes.
	Your eyes?
	As if he was trying to touch what he was seeing.
	That's pretty cool.
	Yeah.
	Maybe, maybe your son is the heir apparent.
	To John Edward, you know, the crossing over guy.
	Maybe he's a budding young psychic who will be next in line to be the greatest.
	Who knows?
	Sees mom's third eye.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello, sir.
	This is Maul Reese calling from St.
	Louis, listening to Big 5 50.
	Uh-huh.
	Well, you bet.
	Hey, I have a great animal communicator for you.
	I don't know if you've had him as a guest yet.
	His name is Bill Northern.
	No, I don't think so.
	But I'm after somebody really good.
	I really, really, really want to know what animals think and what they're all about.
	If you study it just a little bit, it's so amazing.
	It really is.
	Animals are so amazing.
	People don't want to study it.
	They don't want to think about animals having intelligence and souls and all the rest of it.
	Well, I think you will be very, very pleased with this guest, Bill Northern.
	Put me in contact with him.
	I'll send you an email.
	Okay.
	And my question I really wanted to get to, you seem like a pretty knowledgeable guy.
	I was wanting to ask you, how does, we're not We're not legally at war with Afghanistan, are we?
	Congress has to declare war.
	We're not constitutionally at war with them.
	How about that?
	That's what I was wondering.
	I was pretty sure we weren't.
	On the other hand, they're calling it a war, not a police action.
	So, I guess in today's modern world, you can have wars that aren't constitutional.
	I don't know how that happens.
	Well, it happens because they say it.
	Yeah, exactly.
	We are at war, right?
	They say we're at war, but we're not officially at war against Afghanistan.
	You know, I'm not overly disturbed by it.
	I mean, look what they did to us.
	So, as far as I'm concerned, screw them.
	They knocked down two of our big buildings.
	It's not just an isolated dude or dudes who did this.
	Virtually a criminal element that was running an entire country.
	So we're going over there and we're kicking their asses, and I think it's entirely proper.
	Yeah.
	The only thing I'm just a little confused on is, if it's not a actually declared war, is I was going to get to the John Walker lander.
	Oh, the American Taliban?
	Right.
	Yes.
	I was just wondering how you try somebody for treason if we're not officially at war?
	Well, the answer is you don't.
	They're holding that option open, but they don't have the proof required.
	Treason is really kind of a weird thing to prove.
	So, you know, what's going to happen to him, whether he would be considered, for example, under the Geneva Convention, and how it proceeds against him is going to be really interesting to follow.
	I have no idea.
	But just, you know, as a general rule, a rose by any other name is still a war, and we're still kicking the you-know-what out of them, so... That's okay.
	I mean, that's what you do as far as I'm concerned.
	We're doing the right thing.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello?
	Hello.
	Yes, yes, you have arrived.
	You're on the air.
	Hi, Art.
	How you doing?
	Okay, sir.
	This is Mike from Vancouver.
	Yes, Mike.
	And I think I've got it figured out about the sun.
	What's going on?
	That's some figuring.
	What do you think?
	Well, it was a report by Brian Kundle on the photon belt, which we're supposed to enter into in the year 2012.
	Yes.
	Coincidentally, the end of the Mayan calendar.
	Yeah.
	What did they know, eh?
	Well, it's also been stated that we revolve around a central sun, which is in the middle of this photon belt, which it takes us 24,000 years to make one revolution, and we go through the belt twice.
	It fits in with all the dates that you're coming up with.
	12,000 years and 10,000 years.
	Yes.
	And it's fitting in perfectly.
	They say that radiation is going to wipe us out.
	Now, in your Astro-D satellite that was sent up, they had two x-ray detectors.
	Yes.
	Isn't that interesting?
	Yes, although it wouldn't give you very much warning, sir.
	You know, not very much at all, as a matter of fact.
	was always thought to be an extremely stable star.
	But a few years ago, astronomers began to find other supposedly stable stars that every now and then do a burp.
	Now, in the case of a planet like ours, as far as we are from the Sun, if our Sun ever were to do one of these burps, that is somewhat of an understated word, It could erase all life down to microbial life, including microbial life, and simply sterilize the planet.
	That actually could happen.
	Very remote chance of that, thank God.
	But scientists, astronomers, have seen suns like ours do exactly that.
	Suddenly.
	Well, that's it.
	Little thing for the sun, big thing for Earth.
	Well, anyway, the people on it, the Earth, would go on just fine.
	But a lot of the Israeli scientists think that's what happened to the dinosaurs.
	Well, to the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes.
	I was listening when you were having difficulty with that reception the other night.
	Whatever it was, yeah.
	And it came through fine on the air.
	I don't know.
	It grew worse until by the end of the program.
	I could tell you were really struggling.
	By the end of the program, I would say Half the audio was this problem.
	I mean, it was really getting very, very, very bad.
	And the next day, it grew even worse.
	I mean, later that morning, we were testing, and we had 70 dB of noise.
	So, you know, 70 dB of noise on those lines.
	And we don't know from where, or why, or what, or anything else.
	It seemed to come across on the air pretty well, so I didn't know if maybe that was a local thing with your phone, or... Well, we're still trying to figure that out.
	Very interesting.
	I appreciate your call, sir.
	Thank you.
	Well, interesting in that... I mean, here we are talking about... I feel as though I shouldn't even mention it.
	You know, we shouldn't talk much about this tonight, and that's how nervous about it I am.
	Because I don't really want to have a repeat performance.
	Thank you very much.
	Once is enough.
	And if we turn our attention to it, we're liable to cause it.
	Do I really believe that?
	I, you know, I don't know.
	I'm beginning to believe... I think I'm beginning to believe these things, yes.
	With the great experiments we have all done.
	I'm very hesitant to repeat.
	I may have just repeated one the other night just by talking about the topic at all, making it the focus of so many minds.
	Again, I referenced last night's show.
	God, this is so interesting.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Joanne from Gresham, Oregon.
	Hello, Joanne.
	I listen to your show a lot, and I want to thank you for all the good information you give us.
	You're very welcome.
	Also, I would like to know, maybe I've missed it, but when are you going to talk again with Gordon Michael Scallion?
	I don't know.
	That's a good question.
	I should give Gordon a call and arrange something.
	Yeah, I haven't heard you talk to him.
	It's been a long time.
	No, it's been a while.
	Um, and I would be glad to give Gordon a call or get in touch with him.
	Have him back on the air.
	Have him back.
	Wonderful.
	Thank you.
	You're very welcome.
	First time caller line.
	You're on the air.
	Not a lot of time here.
	Hello.
	Going once.
	Going twice.
	Gone wild card line.
	You're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello?
	Yes, sir.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	Yes, sir.
	I'm here.
	Yes, good.
	What is your name?
	My name is Walter.
	I'm calling from Winnipeg.
	What's up, Walter?
	Just getting nervous here with a new baby in Winnipeg, Manitoba.
	Listening to you on CGLB and got some trouble with the chemtrail action out here.
	Chemtrail action?
	Yeah, just a lot of activity here and all my friends are having trouble getting out of bed in the morning.
	I'm just wondering if you know any A cure or something I can work with to get back up on my feet again.
	You're not on your feet?
	Well, I try to get on my feet in the morning, but 12 hours of sleep and it's hard to get out of bed.
	12 hours of sleep and you can't get out of bed.
	You blame this on the chemtrails?
	Well, I know a lot of people within Winnipeg, you know, hundreds of people, and they all have the same problem.
	It's the slight numbing of the mouth.
	Just a fatigue and my calf muscles are all cramped up.
	Calf muscles, my God.
	And you say this is happening all over your city?
	Yeah, it's a constant thing.
	Every day I get up, you know, I try to get up out of bed anyway to look out my window because I live right there, you know, in the city center.
	There they are, big X's in the sky.
	Well, not X's, it's single lines now.
	Alright, well those used to be known as contrails.
	Whether they're chemtrails or not, I don't know.
	Winnipeg blues.
	Winnipeg lazies.
	I'm Mark Bell.
	The wind and the flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
	Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing?
	To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing?
	To have all these things in our memory stored?
	And the universe turns a cowardice to a man.
	To reach Artvel in the Kingdom of Nigh, from west of the Rocky, dial 1-800-6-7-8.
	1-800-825-5033. First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222 or use the wildcard
	line at 1-775-727-1295. To reach out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T
	operator and have them dial 800-893-0902.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
	It certainly is.
	Good morning, everybody.
	Well, the law of unintended consequences continues to strike.
	Graham Hancock is not answering his telephone.
	Ha ha ha!
	I'm Great Britain!
	He's not answering his phone.
	So, what has happened to Graham?
	That's this hour's question now.
	The network talked to him earlier today and he was all set to go.
	We talked to him earlier in the day and he was all set.
	You know, he knew what time and all the rest of it.
	Unless there's been some screw-up in the time.
	Unintended consequences.
	Okay, so we may be in open lines, and if we are, that's fine too, because there's plenty to talk about, but we'll continue to try to get a hold of Graham Hancock.
	In the meantime, let us begin with what we've got to get done, and then we'll proceed in either one direction or the
	other.
	Open lines fine by me.
	Alright, having received no flash messages that Graham Hancock has suddenly returned to life...
	God, I hope he's okay, really.
	You know, that we've managed to get hold of him.
	Actually, he's just not answering his phone.
	Now, anything could have happened.
	Although, when you have a major interview scheduled like this, you know, for a nationwide show, usually you are there.
	Graham always has been, so I hope he's okay.
	In the meantime, we will proceed with open lines, and anything you would like to chat about, heaven knows there certainly is enough to chat about.
	How many of you out there think that focusing on any certain thing, like unintended consequences itself, is merely having millions of you out there focusing on the subject, Will cause unintended consequences of a severe nature to occur.
	Just like thinking about ghosts.
	Or a spirit and mind as separate from the body will cause you to begin to experience things in these realms.
	I'm kind of becoming a believer.
	Again, with last night's program in mind.
	And what the great minds out there can do.
	But this is such interesting stuff.
	It may well be a power greater than atomic power when fully understood.
	And I wish I had... If I had... If I had bigger cojones, I'd probably mess around with this, you know?
	But I just... I just... I'm beginning to be a believer in the law of unintended consequences, and when you mix that up with doing experiments with millions of minds, you really have the formula for You know, for Rod Serling.
	Uh, West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Uh, I was, uh, is this Art?
	Uh, yes.
	I'm the only one here, sir.
	Oh, okay.
	Art, I was wondering, you know, with all these, uh, sun effects, and, and, uh, El Nino, and all these other, uh, phenomenon, how much consideration has been given that these effects might be caused by the nearing of Nibiru?
	Well, Obviously, those who think Nibiru might be coming back would say, yes.
	Others would say, no, I don't believe in any of that anyway.
	You know, on the planet, I just don't believe in it.
	And so, I guess it would depend on what you believe.
	What do you believe?
	Well, you say you don't believe it.
	No, I didn't say that at all.
	Oh, okay.
	I said it would depend on what you believe.
	I think there's a strong possibility that if it is coming into our neighborhood, that the gravitational and the magnetic forces could be causing some of these effects.
	Well, at some point, as we Had in the interview about with Mark Hazelwood
	If all of this is true, then Astronomers are going to begin to tell us
	You know it's going to be an impossible secret to keep and there'll be a sort of a critical mass point where?
	They simply cannot keep the secret any longer if it is one and we'll all know until then I don't
	Yeah You know we're nearing we're nearing the predicted time. I
	think and if and and
	These effects should probably increase if that is the cause Well, the effects are increasing.
	I don't know about the cause, sir.
	I just don't know.
	Maybe that is it.
	Maybe it's something else.
	But the effects of something certainly are on the increase, aren't they?
	First time calling a line?
	Yes, turn your radio off, please.
	Yeah, uh, on the parking garage ghost in Japan.
	Oh, yes.
	Yeah, uh, I looked at it a couple weeks ago and I tried to get it back on and I can't find it.
	Uh, well, it's there somewhere.
	Well, I went to where it says it and clicked on and I see a bunch of ghost pictures, just photos.
	Well, uh, I guess you've got to keep going.
	That's what you've got to do.
	Keep going through all of them?
	Yeah.
	Just keep going back further and further.
	It's there.
	OK.
	Well, I appreciate it.
	All right.
	Take care.
	And that, he refers to the parking lot ghost.
	Actually, not picture, but video that we had up there.
	And I'm sure it is still there.
	It just gets kind of pushed aside.
	There's so much new stuff on the website, it pushes it back further is what happens.
	But you can clearly see an apparition.
	Apparition, excuse me.
	On the security camera in a parking garage, you could see it cross and walk and disappear right through a wall.
	That's what you could see.
	And apparently... By the way, I had several notes on this, and apparently it's Chinese.
	We think it's Chinese now.
	A number of people tried to read the Japanese kanji and didn't have a lot of luck, could read some of it.
	Some of the Chinese and Japanese symbols are the same, but they thought it was Chinese.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Uh, yeah.
	Bill Austin texts.
	Is KLVJ AM Radio 590?
	Yes, sir.
	Hey, you might tell our friends in Canada that if they try plugging their ears, they'll be able to get out of bed.
	There's some sort of a 16 decibel low-frequency wave that's probably hitting them, if you remember harp.
	Uh, why do you think it's hitting them now?
	Well, that's what it's supposed to be, the indications there.
	I know it went through us about... Well, HAARP, wait a minute, hold on.
	Well, HAARP, we can hear, we know when HAARP is transmitting, sir.
	We can hear it, and so are you saying you're hearing HAARP transmitting now?
	No, not right now.
	About a month ago, it was down here.
	I see.
	Well, there's no way to know except whether it's actually transmitting at any given time, and you would think effects, although what do I know about the effects?
	Would be felt while the transmission was being made by somebody on the ground.
	I'll tell you kind of an interesting story.
	It's kind of gross, but it is interesting.
	Maybe you'll look into it yourself, I don't know.
	Do you remember the story that I read you?
	I can hear my wife groaning in the other room.
	Do you remember the story I read you about people who wear headphones a lot?
	You know, like I do, like right now.
	I wear them.
	I've worn headphones for a full one-third of my life.
	So, they were talking about just people who, you know, listen to a lot of music and wear headphones for an hour or so a day.
	These people grow hundreds of times more bacteria in their ears than people who don't use headphones.
	That's what the story said, anyways, and I thought it was interesting.
	Here I am, wearing headphones, and pretty loud too, I might say, for a third of my life.
	You know, there should be monsters growing in my ears, right?
	So somebody sent me, and actually I got a call about something called an ear candle.
	And I went, ah, come on, ear candle, give me a break.
	Somebody then sent me an email saying, oh, no, no, no, no, ear candles are really interesting.
	You can go to the health food store and get one and try it out.
	It'll kind of gross you out, Art, but give it a try.
	It's really something.
	And so we did.
	My wife went to a health food store and found some ear candles.
	And these are incredible things.
	And I'm not recommending you do this anytime, anywhere.
	And it's an herbal remedy, you know, and it says so right there.
	And that you should always consult your physician.
	You know the thing they put you through, right?
	But what it boils down to is, you get a plate, and you stick this ear candle, which is probably about 8 inches long, at least, 8 inches long.
	You light the candle, which burns around the edges only, and you put this thing in your ear, and it acts like a stovepipe, sort of.
	It warms up the, I guess it warms, sends smoke in and warms up the wax in your inner ear.
	And then it sucks it up because of the stovepipe effect.
	It sucks this wax in your ear that has been there for uncounted years.
	I mean, probably has been adding up since you were a little child.
	Now, in my particular case, I ear-candled one ear, and then we cut open the candle to look and see what was in there.
	Obviously, I mean, you want to know what came out of my ear, right?
	And so you look down in there, and here's this gigantic... I mean, there was so much wax in there, you could have molded a small little wax animal.
	I mean, it was disgusting.
	And along with it came this... ear powder.
	I don't know how to describe it.
	It's like ear powder.
	And this gigantic gob of wax, and you go, oh my God, where could this have come from in my ear?
	And so, I tell you today, I have several many decibels better hearing today.
	And so this weird thing really works.
	It burns down to about Three inches from your ear.
	Now you've got a plate over your ear so you know it's not going to burn your ear.
	But you can hear, it's really weird when it's in there, you can hear a sizzling and a crackling as this candle burns down.
	It's one of the wildest things that I've ever seen in my entire life.
	And when I tell you that you really don't want to know what's in your inner ear, You believe me.
	I'm telling you.
	Enough to mold little small ear animals from.
	If you wanted to take that goop that came up and make it into something.
	Make it into a little ear horsey or something.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	This is Art?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Sorry, I just ran out of my room.
	The radio's on in there.
	You're getting stomped on real hard.
	I'm calling from Oregon.
	This is Donna.
	Just a lot of bleed over of another station totally cut me out.
	Anyway, I've been trying to get a hold of you forever to see if you would have Thunderstriking on again.
	Thunderstriking?
	Yes.
	You mean the man who did the shadow people?
	I've never seen any shadow people or any of that kind of thing, but when I was younger I woke up with the cape guy.
	He was standing by me and couldn't move and couldn't scream.
	What do you mean cape guy?
	You mean Mothman?
	The black guy in like a monk's robe.
	Are you talking about Mothman?
	No, no, no, no, no.
	When Thunderstriking was talking about the different pictures that people were sending in, he described the guy in like a monk's robe and a black face.
	You couldn't see a face.
	And he said, well, I can't talk about that one.
	That's a whole other show.
	It was like a black military project.
	And that's the only thing that, honestly, that I was interested in, because I haven't seen Shadow People, and I just wanted to see if he could get him back on to do that.
	This was before everything happened with the Twin Towers and all that, and I figured, I don't know, military, maybe he couldn't do it.
	Let me tell you something.
	Since we opened the subject of the shadow people, it has never, never stopped.
	Every day I have, every day ma'am, I have dozens of shadow people stories and emails.
	And I mean dozens, think about that.
	Well, this thing wasn't a shadow person, so I'm really curious to know what it was.
	Well, yeah, but I think they're all sort of from the same neighborhood.
	Okay, well, he was saying it's a military project and it was a whole different show and it was gunning.
	All right.
	Thunder striking.
	Yes, yes.
	I remember thunder strikes.
	Oh, I see Graham may be at a different telephone number.
	I've been handed a note.
	We'll see if we can get him here at the bottom of the hour.
	First time caller line, you are on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Nathan from Joplin.
	Yes.
	All right.
	I've got a possible proposition that might explain all of the Strange things with cancer and whatnot.
	A possible proposition.
	Well, let's see.
	30 years, a 400% increase for men and 300% for women.
	What's your thought?
	Well, our bodies are affected in ways that we don't even understand.
	Chinese medicine has for hundreds and hundreds of years known that different organs are more active or more delicate at certain points in the day, and it goes in a specific 24-hour cycle.
	Acupuncture and all that.
	Um, now you understand that we are electromagnetic, you know, we have electromagnetic energy and thus we're magnetic bodies in a sense.
	Yes.
	Well, all smaller electromagnetic bodies or all, you know, magnetic bodies are always governed by larger ones.
	There's the lunar cycle that, you know, women and, well, you know what I'm talking about there, right?
	Well, you're mixing things up here a little bit, and probably getting off into an area that'll just get you in trouble for no reason when you're trying to make a bigger point, so you want to reorient yourself here.
	We're all electromagnetic beings, sir.
	I agree with that.
	Electrical impulses flow through our body and through our brains and all the rest of it, so anybody who doesn't think we're affected by the Earth and the Sun and all of the things around us are out, oh, their minds.
	Simple as that.
	Okay, well, you know, I totally agree.
	You were talking about the cat earlier, finding its way home?
	Yes.
	Carrier pigeons actually find their way to wherever they're going by, their brain actually senses the electromagnetic lines in the earth?
	Well, that may be.
	That's kind of a theory, and we're not all together sure that's true.
	It may well be true.
	But it does not answer how an animal, electromagnetic lines or not, I mean that certainly answers how a migratory animal might migrate, right?
	But it does not answer how an animal finds an owner hundreds or thousands of miles away.
	It would have absolutely no way whatsoever of understanding where that owner is or has moved to abruptly.
	And yet, these animals find their way back to their owners.
	Now... Clearly, something else is at play here.
	Not just magnetic lines on the Earth, but something really far from our understanding as human beings is going on.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, all right.
	Yes.
	You were talking earlier about... Turn your radio off, please.
	You were talking about animal communication, but did you ever talk about animals who communicate?
	Well, you couldn't have animal communicators without animals that communicate, right?
	Well, I've had several animals that communicated very clearly.
	What kind of animals?
	A beaglehound.
	A beaglehound?
	A beaglehound.
	Oh, a beaglehound.
	All right.
	What did your beaglehound communicate to you?
	Well, she'd take off, and I'd call her, and she'd stop in the middle of the street, look over her shoulder, and put her tail right straight up in the air and give you the freeway salute.
	No.
	Oh, yes.
	Not just one.
	I've had several.
	Now, you're implying that your dog would understand what that salute means.
	Well, she's still got it across.
	Not just one.
	I've got several people that get it.
	Do they all give you the same salute?
	Yes.
	All right.
	Well, I'm not going there.
	But you might want to, I don't know, improve your animal communication skills.
	I mean, it obviously is something you're doing wrong, if they're really doing that.
	Graham Hancock, next, maybe.
	Graham Hancock, next, maybe.
	Watching her like she musters a smile for his nostalgic tale.
	Never coming near what he wanted to say, only to realize it never really was, she had a place in his life.
	I mean, I don't know.
	Now, let it go.
	The seasons don't feel the reverse.
	None to the wind, the sun, or the rain.
	We can be like they are.
	Come on, baby, don't feel me, baby, take my hand.
	Don't feel me, baby, air to the fly.
	Don't feel me, baby, I'm your man.
	Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-627-8000.
	618-8255, east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	To reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
	It is indeed.
	Graham Hancock, yay, is author of the major international bestsellers, The Sign and the Seal, Fingerprints of the Gods, and Heaven's Mirror.
	His books now have sold more than 5 million copies worldwide and have been translated into 27 languages.
	His public lectures and TV appearances, including the three-hour series Quest for the Lost Civilization, have put his ideas before audiences of tens of millions.
	He has become recognized as an unconventional thinker who raises legit questions about humanity's history and prehistory and offers an increasingly popular challenge To the entrenched views of orthodox scholars, and I will get into this in a moment, but clearly for archaeologists, lately the world has been falling apart.
	Born in Edinburgh, Scotland, Hancock's early years were spent in India, where his father worked as a surgeon.
	Later he went to school and university in the northern English city of Durham, and graduated from Durham University in 73 with first-class honors in sociology, went on to pursue a career in quality journalism, writing for many of Britain's leading newspapers, including the Times, Sunday Times, Independent, Guardian, co-editor of the New Internationalist magazine from 76 through 9, and East Africa correspondent of The Economist, Boy, are they big in Europe, 81 through 83, my goodness.
	His breakthrough after first starting to write, bestseller came in 92 with publication of The Sign and The Seal.
	His epic investigation into the mystique and whereabouts of the Ark of the Lost Covenant, Fingerprints of the Gods, published in 95, now has sold more than 3 million copies, and continues to be in demand about the world's subsequent works, such as Keeper of Genesis, The Message of the Sphinx in the U.S., with co-author Robert Bovall, and Heaven's Mirror, with photographer, I believe it's Santa Feja.
	Have also been number one bestsellers and on and on and on, in a moment, coming up, Graham Hancock.
	Now here we are again, the Law of Unintended Consequences.
	Two things.
	One, Graham appears to have been at a different number than the one I had.
	We'll find out about that in a moment.
	And check this out for cool.
	During the time I was reading Graham's biographical information here, I dropped a cigarette cherry squarely in my lap.
	Those some of you out there will know what that is.
	Trying to do an ear candle job on my privates or something.
	Now, did I remain fairly calm or what?
	Anybody want to check and see if there appears to be a large comet headed for Earth at the moment?
	These have been strange times.
	Hey, Graham, God, good to hear your voice again.
	Nice to hear yours too, Art.
	It's been a while.
	Now that I've heard it, you're going to have to stay a little away from the phone there.
	Okay, I'll try to keep it away.
	I think I put new rechargeable batteries in my old telephone and it's now too loud.
	I see.
	Is that a portable phone?
	Yes, it is.
	Do you have one that you can pick up?
	I don't.
	They're all hand free.
	I see.
	Well, anyway, it's good to hear you again.
	I started out, Graham, by saying that the last couple of years, and it's been a while since you and I have spoken, they've been very bad times for archaeologists worldwide.
	Things are beginning to be seen and researched all over the place that would seem to indicate That mankind has been here a lot longer than they've been telling us.
	Well, certainly civilized mankind.
	Yes.
	Yet there have been new discoveries, new finds, changes.
	There's a lot that's being shaken up at the moment.
	And I think we're going to see some very interesting times ahead.
	Why, Graham, did we not find you at the telephone number we had listed for you?
	Okay, here's the thing.
	I have two places.
	I live most of my time in the West Country of England, in Devon.
	Very far from any town.
	Um, but sometimes I have to be in London, so we have a small place here, and when I have to work in London we come up and stay here.
	I see.
	And I had given the London numbers, but I think what happened was that you'd been trying my numbers in Devon.
	I see.
	Easy enough.
	Luckily I had your hotline, so I called in.
	Now, as you've seen all of this stuff unfolding, all of these new discoveries, I suppose you've heard about off the coast of Cuba and all the rest of that?
	Absolutely, yes.
	The Cabo San Antonio, very interesting, yes.
	You must feel somewhat vindicated.
	I think it's too early to go around feeling vindicated, but what I feel is that the basic proposition that I put forward, which is that there was a higher level of civilization, perhaps much higher than we've expected way back in the Ice Age, and that an urban, city-dwelling culture, a culture that had reached that level, Well, we're all hearing about Cuba and we're waiting for information on that.
	What can you tell us about what's been found off the coast of India?
	that seems to be being supported by by evidence at the moment but we need to do
	a whole lot more work on the places and there's a lot of bridges to cross yet
	but it's looking good alright well we were all hearing about cuba and we're
	waiting for information on that what can you tell us about uh... what's been found
	off the coast of india well what's been what's been found off the coast of india
	you have two separate fights
	uh... you have fights in the northwest of india fights that are far away from those that you can get and
	still be in india in the southeast of india
	And I've been following both of these areas as a diver and as a researcher for several years now.
	What happened in May of 2001 was that one of India's government agencies,
	the National Institute of Ocean Technology, which specializes in high-tech instrumentation for remote
	surveys on the seabed, was conducting a survey in a place called the Gulf of Cambei
	in northwest India.
	Now, they were not doing archaeology.
	They were there actually testing the pollution levels in the Gulf of Cambei.
	And they were using an instrument called side-scan sonar, which sends out a beam down to the seabed and which bounces
	back an image of what's on the seabed.
	Gee whiz, just like in Cuba.
	Just like in Cuba.
	South Canterna Highway's gone a lot further than that.
	So back in May last year, they were doing this survey and they started to notice very regular geometrical formations on the seabed.
	They had geologists with them and they just couldn't understand what these things were.
	They were about 120 feet down And they were very extensive, and they focused their survey in that area, followed this up, and they found that what they seemed to be sitting on top of were two cities, roughly five miles long and about a mile wide, laid out alongside of ancient riverbeds, parallel to each other but about 15 miles apart.
	And to give a sense of the size of these cities, if you added them both together, you would have a city the size of Manhattan.
	My God!
	Now, this is very extraordinary, and it was a very extraordinary discovery at the time, because the depth of submergence suggests that these are very old.
	But when the National Institute of Ocean Technology went public with its findings in May last year, nobody took them seriously, because The suggestion that there could have been fantastic cities of this scale, thousands and thousands of years ago, which had been covered up by water, was just too difficult for archaeologists to swallow, and they suffered a lot of ridicule at that point.
	But they didn't give up, and they went back with their research vessel, and they pulled up, using, in fact, a mechanical grab, they pulled up, they put themselves over the top of the cities, and they pulled up from the seabed more than 2,000 man-made artefacts.
	Including pottery, jewelry, even human remains.
	Teeth, bones, vertebrae, jawbone.
	Wonderful things.
	How would human remains last that long?
	I can understand some other artifacts, but human remains?
	That's amazing.
	In fertilized form, yeah, they do.
	And these were fertilized.
	They have lasted because they run carbon-dating tests on Pieces of cut wood that were found amongst this artifact.
	The wood was perfectly preserved.
	Right.
	And the date that they got from the carbon dating, which is a standard archaeological tool, and I'm often accused of ignoring it, but a date that was given by carbon dating was 9,500 years ago.
	7,500 years ago. 7,500 BC. That's about 4,000 years older than any city known to archaeologists
	7,500 BC.
	anywhere in the world. And it suddenly led to a huge jump in the seriousness with which
	these ruins on the bottom of the Gulf of Cambay were taken.
	Because no longer could it be said that they were simply an artifact of the imaging process or some kind of scientific hallucination.
	Once you pull 2,000 artifacts out of them, it obviously and logically enormously increases the possibility that they're man-made.
	And in fact, nobody in India is in serious doubt about that now.
	So, we're dealing with something that confounds the established picture of history, because we're supposed to have started developing cities, oh, 5,000 or less than 5,000 years ago, with the gradual growth and emergence of civilization, which has always been thought to have started in the Fertile Crescent in the Middle East, near Iraq, and now, suddenly, thousands of years earlier, We have these cities which simply can't be explained.
	Our educational institutions around the world have not yet begun to respond to this.
	In other words, what they're teaching in school with regard to archaeology and our past remains virtually unchanged.
	I would expect that to be so for quite a while.
	It's going to take the archaeological community about five years, I would guess, to digest Well, in what way?
	First off, they have to get rid of all their objections to it and satisfy themselves that
	it is a genuine discovery, which I have no doubt that they'll do, and then come to terms
	with what it means.
	If it is what it seems to be, I think any archaeologist would agree that it turns over
	the established story of the origins of civilization.
	So, in what way do you think they will now explain what they know about man's presence
	on the planet in such a manner?
	For archaeologists who are invested in the present view of the past, which is a straight line development from rather simple and primitive beginnings through a nice series of gradual evolutionary steps until we get cities and eventually end up with what we have Uh, with what we have today, that such an idea simply cannot accommodate cities that are 9,000 years old at the bottom of the Gulf of Cambay.
	And in fact, I have to stress that the date on those cities, which is retreat from carbon-dated artifacts, is supported by sea-level studies, because there's a whole science Which studies the extent to which sea level rose at the end of the last ice age.
	And this science puts the submergence of the Gulf of Cambay round about 7,700 years ago.
	So, it means that the cities there couldn't have been built before that date, and so the carbon date of about 1,500 years older than that makes sense.
	Alright, well, maybe you could describe... To answer your question, very difficult for archaeologists to accommodate themselves to this, so the first And the first thing we're going to see is several years of intense critical focus on these signs to see if they can be dismissed.
	That'll be the first thing that happens.
	But if everybody, if it's confirmed, and we're now five or ten years later, what conclusions do we draw about Ourselves and what changes in thinking in what kind of circles will this create?
	Well, for me, first and foremost, what it means is that the vast heritage of mythology that we have from all around the world, which testifies to global floods and which has been Scorned and ignored by archaeologists as irrelevant to archaeological research.
	This is going to have to change.
	Because we're looking at a phenomenon.
	The work that I've been doing for the last five years has been following up every possible lead in this area of underwater structures.
	And I'm a diver and I've been diving on structures all around the world.
	And there is evidence for massively ancient underwater structures in almost all parts of the world.
	So this looks like the global traces of a cataclysmic event, or a series of cataclysmic events.
	Well, there's still Okinawa that they're trying to figure out, and now, of course, Cuba.
	And I know that you've seen the reports on Cuba, and in the case of Cuba, Graham, it's 2,200 feet.
	it's 2200 feet. Yes Cuba is fascinating. Whatever it is, it's a very deep site.
	Now, we have to realize with a fight that's submerged to a depth of 2200 feet, that we are not dealing solely with The issue of sea level rise at the end of the ice age.
	Obviously not.
	Because that would account, at the most, for 400 feet of submergence.
	I've heard some people say as much as 900, but certainly nowhere near 2200.
	Nowhere near 2200 and nowhere near 900 too, except that you do get variations around the world simply because of land subsidence and land elevation, which occurs in all of these places at the same time that the sea is going up and down.
	But generally speaking, You wouldn't find a greater depth of submersion than about 400 feet, which is a very great depth, as a result of sea level rise.
	So, if these cities are submerged to 2200 feet, the most logical conclusion to draw is that they must have been carried down to that depth in some kind of underwater landslide.
	This is possible.
	Apparently, it's particularly It's possible in that area, but of course I'm jumping ahead of the finds and assuming that these are man-made structures.
	They may not be.
	They may not be man-made.
	I have a feeling, I hope, they are.
	Well, alright, let's go back to India then for a second with the artifacts that have been brought up.
	If we go out on a limb and speculate about what it was like for the people on that land that's now so far below water, what do we imagine it was like?
	Well, the most, the clearest signature of what kind of people they were comes from the character of the buildings that they've left behind, which are now on the seabed.
	And these are very extensive structures with huge walls and massive foundations.
	There's another technique called sub-bottom profiling, which will do, it kind of takes an x-ray of the sea bottom and looks at what's underneath the bottom.
	And what sub-bottom profiling has shown on these structures in the Gulf of Cambay is that they have massive foundations.
	Very, very strong and probably made of very large blocks of stone.
	The character of the walls that are left above water is just huge.
	It's on an enormous scale and very geometrical with lots of right angles in it and you can see clear shapes of large square and rectangular constructions.
	For a society to put all of this together 9,000 or more years ago, you have to understand that at that period of the past, what archaeology says we're dealing with is just small villages and settlements.
	Yes.
	The very largest that you might find, well-known places like Jericho and Cappel Hayek in Turkey, which are both known early settlements, are about 150 times smaller than what we find on the bottom of the Gulf of Cambay.
	So it's completely out of context and perspective in the period to which it's applied.
	Now even beyond that, when you look at a big city, you have to ask yourself, how did those people support themselves?
	How did they eat?
	How did they sustain themselves?
	And it's difficult to imagine a city or cities of these sizes being established without a solid agricultural base to feed them.
	9,000 years ago, agriculture is supposed to have been only just beginning.
	Just beginning.
	Not have got to the stage where it could support large cities.
	Far from that.
	Thousands of years away from that.
	So there we have another mystery.
	And I think it's possible that the answers to all of these mysteries are on the 10 million square miles of land that was submerged by rising sea levels around the world at the end of the Ice Age.
	That's an area bigger than South America and North America as far as the Canadian border added together.
	Well, there are many people like myself who wonder about following, Graham.
	We may not have time for a good answer here, but if there are really all these undersea cities about the world, then the U.S.
	government with its submarines, the Russian government with its submarines, should know about these things, shouldn't they?
	Well, a place where they particularly should know about them is the Persian Gulf.
	Because that area must be amongst the most heavily polluted waters in the world.
	Absolutely.
	And the entire Persian Gulf was dry with a beautiful river running through it until about 12,000 years ago.
	Right.
	So, are you guessing they do know and have not said anything?
	Like I am, yeah.
	I expect I am.
	Although frankly, the places where submarines go is not necessarily the same places that you'd expect to find submerged ruins.
	Perhaps not, but... Often in much deeper water.
	But I'd be very surprised if some anomalies have not been found.
	And indeed we have reports from From the Russians going back to the 1980s of quite a few very strange things being found in the Atlantic Ocean.
	Oh, really?
	Okay, let's hold it right there.
	We're at the top of the hour.
	Graham Hancock is my guest.
	From Great Britain, I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
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	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
	Certainly is.
	Good morning.
	Graham Hancock from Great Britain is here, and we've had him switch phones trying to corral ourselves with a bit better connection.
	We might have done that.
	We'll see you here in a moment.
	In a moment, Graham will be right back.
	Now back to Graham Hancock in Great Britain.
	Graham, you there?
	I'm here.
	Hopefully on a quieter telephone.
	Oh, it sounds so much better, yes.
	Good.
	The only problem for me now is I can't pace, you see.
	I like to pace when I'm talking.
	Now I'm fixed to the chair with a fixed line, but anyway, let's go.
	Do you really like to pace back and forth?
	Yeah, I do.
	I'm a pacer.
	I don't know why, but I just can't take a telephone call sitting still.
	However, I'm doing so now.
	It's a good experience for me.
	Alright, you've been doing an Indiana Jones thing all over the world, it seems like.
	Something in the Bay of Bengal.
	What are you doing there?
	This is southeast India.
	We were talking a few moments ago about big cities that have been discovered underwater in northwest India.
	That's right, yeah.
	But right far away in the southeast of India, often a state of India called Tamil Nadu, inhabited by Tamil-speaking people, there has been another discovery.
	And in fact, this discovery was made by Indian archaeologists some years ago, back in 1993.
	They were doing a survey of ruins which were very close to shore in that area.
	In fact, they were so close to shore that some of them were exposed, completely exposed at low tide.
	And these ruins were dated accurately to not very old, between 300 BC and 300 AD.
	But while they were doing that survey, they also decided to look in deeper water.
	And they went out, again using initially side-scan sonar, but in this case supported by diving as well, including by myself.
	They went out with side-scan sonar and they found that five kilometres from the shore, say three miles out from shore, at a depth of 70 feet, a very large structure which shouldn't be there.
	They couldn't figure out what it was.
	It was shaped like a horseshoe.
	And it was shown on the side scan sonar to be surrounded by other structures.
	In 93 they put down some marine archaeologists to dive on it and they found that it was a man-made structure with courses of blocks clearly visible in the side of it under the marine growth.
	But they didn't know what to do with it because it was so far from shore.
	It didn't appear, couldn't be connected to the ruins that were inshore and much younger.
	Now you actually put on gear and went out there yourself?
	Yeah, I've been diving for five years, and specifically in order to follow up wonderful anomalies like this.
	I found out about this structure in a very obscure journal published by India's National Institute of Oceanography, just like a footnote to their study on the inshore structures.
	And I decided this is extremely intriguing, and I have to have a look at it.
	It took me about a year and a half to get permission from the Indian government to dive there.
	But finally, last year, I went back, in fact, with a film crew, and we dived on this structure and filmed it.
	And it is the most fantastic, enormous structure, which archaeologists admit would have required a high-technology, quote-unquote, to build.
	Graham, why is it hard to get a permit to dive there?
	Believe it or not, although India has fabulous coasts and a very long coastline, there is almost no leisure diving in India.
	There's only a couple of places in India where a scuba diver can dive.
	Yeah, I understand that.
	At that, these were shark-infested waters?
	Well, it's not only that.
	It's just that scuba diving as a culture has never really developed in India.
	There is commercial diving, but there's no... I mean, people who are diving to free anchors and bring up salvage and so on, but there's no...
	There's no leisure diving.
	So immediately, anybody diving in India has huge problems of supply, getting compressors, getting tanks, all of this kind of thing.
	Yes.
	You just can't do it.
	And as soon as you start to do it, it's referred back to the government and they say, well, why do you want to dive?
	And they're quite, they're quite strictly control their waters.
	So it took a very long time to just get permission to dive there.
	And then because there are no logistics and no facilities, It was necessary for India's National Institute of Oceanography to go there also to bring in a portable compressor so that we could have air in our tanks.
	I wonder what they're afraid of though.
	I don't think they're afraid of anything.
	I just think that in other places, for example the Caribbean where everybody dives all the time, the idea of a diver has become normalized and people are quite used to seeing folk dressed up in masks and fins and so on.
	But in India, The idea of a diver is not normalized, and the immediate suspicion is, why is this person diving?
	Is he going to try to steal something from us?
	Is it some kind of security issue?
	This was particularly large in the Gulf of Cambay in the northwest, which is near the troubled areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan.
	So I guess in every country, there's a Zahi waiting somewhere, huh?
	Well, yes.
	In the case of India, it's just rather charming, and here's Zahi from Egypt.
	It's just rather charming and slow-moving.
	It's the sort of worst of British bureaucracy, tinged with sort of 50 years of the worst of Indian bureaucracy as well.
	And everything just takes a long time to happen.
	But in a very nice, polite way.
	And as long as you're patient, and there's no reason not to be patient with India, because it's one of the oldest countries in the world.
	As long as you're patient, you will eventually get to do what you want to do.
	And that I did.
	Dived on this structure.
	Filmed it, and we are returning there in a month's time with a full-scale expedition, again jointly with the National Institute of Oceanography, but with a lot of technical divers from Britain, in order to survey the other 27 structures that have been found nearby.
	Oh my goodness!
	Now what's intriguing about this structure in Southeast India is the depth of submergence on that coast.
	We have to remember that there's a I mentioned this earlier, but there is an increasingly highly developed science which takes into account all the variables that you need to take into account to figure out what the sea level was on any particular location, anywhere in the world, at any particular time.
	And when that program is run on this site, we find that the underwater structure that I've dived on there was submerged 11,500 years ago.
	On, by the way, is the same date that's given in Plato for the submergence of Atlantis in another ocean.
	Well, one of the major things, I think, that will come crashing home to people as they
	realize these areas that were above ground 11,000 or 11,500 years ago or whatever, even
	millions of years ago at 2,200 feet or whatever, I mean, if it happened once, Graham, it could
	happen again.
	I think that's one of the most humbling lessons of this new material which is now coming out
	all around the world, is that it is really possible that our ancestors reached a much
	higher level of development than we imagine.
	Perhaps they formed a different kind of civilization to the one we've created, but if they lived in cities, they were certainly highly developed people.
	That this could have happened and then been forgotten.
	Is it possible that along with an older civilization that went much, much farther than we imagine, there would have been a technology of some description that we don't fully understand today, perhaps a technology That was able to do things that we almost can't do today, like build pyramids, I don't know, whatever.
	That they developed some sort of probably what we would call magic today.
	Yeah.
	Although I'm sure it's natural to do all of this.
	It's a harnessing of natural forces.
	Well, of course, we're entering a highly speculative area here.
	Yes, I know.
	Speculation is fun.
	Yes.
	So let's speculate.
	Once we cross the barrier and accept that it appears that there was a whole earlier layer of civilization, which we're only just beginning to find out about, and that that had reached the level of an urban civilization, then it would be very surprising if there wasn't some kind of technology involved.
	To get, simply to get an organized complex culture that can build cities involves so many processes that it would be almost a miracle if there wasn't a technology involved.
	But at the same time, you know, the evidence for this remains to be confirmed and remains to be established as to whether that's so or not.
	I like to think, from studying ancient texts, and in this case particularly relevant are the ancient texts of India, That we may be looking at a society which, in some ways, was very different from ours.
	If they developed technology, it would have been of a different sort.
	The primary interest of that society was not particularly technological or material.
	You can even see this in India today, that millions of people in India spend their entire lives just wandering as pilgrims from place to place, having completely renounced the world because they believe that attachment to the world slows down the progress of the soul
	so we can't assume that an earlier society, an earlier civilization was
	as interested in technology as we are. And perhaps not at all in the sense that
	we are. It may have been a very just a... in other words it could have been
	a civilization that was based on certain beliefs based on certain facts that we no longer understand,
	correct?
	I think that's exactly the way to look at it.
	It raises two questions.
	Not only the possibility that great civilizations can be destroyed and lost for thousands of years, almost without trace, but also that the pattern in which a civilization evolves is not necessarily fixed In the model that we have today, perhaps there are other ways for this to happen.
	Perhaps our kind of global dominant society today is only one of many routes that human beings could take, and perhaps not even necessarily the best.
	Well sure, isn't it rather egotistical to imagine this is the only way?
	Yeah.
	With regard to the first site you were talking about, Mike in Anaheim, California asks, you know, I hear the currents are too strong For diving on the site, how might people eventually explore the site and do so in a way which does not involve dredging for artifacts?
	Right.
	Good question, and a good point raised in it, because dredging for artifacts is... it was necessary in this case because it was necessary to establish once and for all that these were man-made sites.
	Yeah, but then you've got to take the next step, right?
	You've got to take the next step, and dredging won't do it.
	Now, when I first got on to this story, which is close to a year ago now, that was when I put in my applications to dive with the National Institute of Ocean Technology, who found these structures in the Gulf of Cambay.
	When we went back there to film with them, which we did just a month or two ago in December, we still did not have permission to dive in the Gulf of Cambay, and they themselves had not dived in the Gulf of Cambay.
	And the reason for this is these enormous currents.
	There's actually a 30 foot difference between high tide and low tide in the Gulf of Cambay.
	Wow.
	And you get, and the site is more than 20 miles from shore.
	Now the most dangerous thing for any diver, forget about sharks, forget about anything like that, the most dangerous thing is to get carried away by a current.
	If you are carried off by a current and you surface half a mile from your boat, Unless they have a fast recovery vessel, a launch, which can go out and pick you up.
	And it often can't see you if there's waves even three feet high.
	Then you're dead.
	You're dead.
	And there's no shore to swim to.
	So to do... This is a deep site.
	It's 120 feet deep in places.
	It involves a lot of logistics and backup for diving.
	And for just securing that people don't die there.
	It's actually almost like drifting away from a spacecraft without a tether, isn't it?
	Yes, it is.
	It is like drifting away from a spacecraft without a tether.
	And I've done it several times.
	And the two occasions when I've come closest to losing my life as a diver.
	Have both been because of that, of surfacing and literally not seeing the boat that you jumped off.
	It's gone.
	God, that's gotta be scary.
	It is a very scary thing.
	And it's a scary thing when you're less than a mile from shore and have some chance to swim to shore.
	But it's an impossibly scary thing when you're 20 miles from shore, as is the case in the Gulf of Cambay.
	So, very careful steps have to be taken to ensure that diving is safe there.
	But it can be done, and we're hoping to dive on that site With a bit of luck, within the next six months.
	Well, you'd certainly be commended for not only talking and researching, as so many academics do, but going out there and looking for yourself.
	Now, you saw this with your own eyes.
	Is there any question at all about what you saw?
	No.
	As far as I'm concerned, I've seen a lot more evidence on this than has so far been made public.
	And by the way, this story The story of the Indian underwater cities is hardly known about at all in the U.S.
	I think you must be one of the first shows to be talking about it.
	Believe me, you're absolutely correct.
	Now, we were aware of it.
	We'd had the headlines fairly recently, but no details, Graham.
	Yeah, that's right.
	The story just hasn't been picked up in the U.S.
	for some reason, but it will be.
	It'll gradually start dawning on people.
	Well, same deal with the one in Cuba.
	The story is there, if you have the right people doing the research, but it's not hitting... Well, it did briefly hit CNN, just briefly, but it's just not being embraced yet.
	Yeah, that's right.
	And it's very difficult to embrace.
	See, what happens is if somebody uh... wanting to run a and you got a moment on the tv
	brings up some academic expert and said what do you think of this story he's
	gonna start rubbish forget about it by now
	and that's where it gets forgotten about it becomes a self-fulfilling uh... property until it actually creeps up behind you and
	banged you on the head you know which is what it's about to do well on i asked
	somebody the other night uh... i do so many good interviews of what it would take
	uh... for scientists for archaeologists to suddenly except all of this
	And he sat back and thought for a moment, and he said, well, they've got to all die off.
	This is also true, unfortunately.
	Do you think it's that bad?
	And it's often the case with new ideas, that they seem outrageous at the time.
	Later, when a whole generation has passed away, and a new generation has become the establishment, those ideas get accepted.
	It can happen again.
	But I must say, to be fair to archaeologists, I do believe that confronted by evidence which they could not refuse, they would accept that they have to change their picture of the past.
	I think it will be painful, but I think it will come.
	They're just going to require more evidence than they've got at the moment.
	Well, from what I've heard, and maybe I'm wrong, but what I've heard is that many archaeologists, when confronted with some evidence, some artifacts that they simply cannot explain, Uh, end up, uh, instead of, uh, doing what science should do and proceeding to find out, sort of just take it and put it up on the shelf and say, look, it doesn't fit.
	It's some kind of weird anomaly.
	Let's just not think about it and put it up there.
	Yeah, they ignore it.
	This is unfortunately the first, the first reaction.
	And it's why new ideas and new discoveries have a very high threshold to cross before they, before they get recognized.
	And in a way, I think this is a very unfortunate side of quote-unquote science as it concerns our ancient history
	that instead of a welcoming openness to new ideas and new evidence
	there's hostility and suspicion towards them and that mindset automatically makes it very difficult to
	discuss and present new ideas I personally think that a more tolerant, more encouraging
	climate from the scientific community even if it led them on some wild goose chases
	would probably produce better results for humanity in the end.
	Mm-hmm.
	But it may not be our generation that truly comes to grips with this and certainly it may not be our colleges and universities that teach this newly discovered material until a generation passes.
	Likely to, likely to be the case.
	Likely to be a generation.
	They'll have to keep listening to this program and others like it, I guess, if they want to know what's really going on.
	That's sad.
	I understand you've also done something off the coast of Malta.
	Yep.
	One area amongst several.
	I've got a new book coming out.
	This is not a plug because it won't be published in the U.S.
	Oh, you can have a plug.
	Go right ahead.
	It won't be published in the U.S.
	for another six months, but it's being published here in Britain.
	In fact, it's published today, and it's called Underworld, and what it is is a worldwide examination of this phenomenon of mysterious underwater ruins, supported by my own direct diving all around the world, but also setting it in context of what we know about the world in this period and what we don't know.
	Hold it right there for a second.
	and will do a short break
	and be right back what it is ain't exactly clear
	there's a man with a gun over there telling me I got to beware
	I think it's time we stop children watch that sound
	everybody look what's going down music playing
	music playing music playing
	music playing Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255, east of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033.
	1-800-825-5033. First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
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	international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
	So, Graham has a new book about all of this, and they have it in Britain as of today, and we're not going to get it for another six months here.
	Just doesn't seem fair.
	We'll find out more about that, and we've got a couple of roads we're going to go down in a moment.
	Very ancient roads.
	Stay right there.
	Now, did I understand the title of the book correctly?
	Is it called Underworld?
	Yeah.
	It's called Underworld, and the subtitle is Flooded Kingdoms of the Ice Age.
	And I'm sorry it's not available in the U.S.
	yet.
	My publishers are crowned in New York, and they're planning to publish it in the fall.
	But it's available on Amazon.co.uk in the U.K.
	Oh, it is?
	Oh, okay.
	Some people are going to go for it.
	I know it.
	All right.
	What's going on?
	You know, before I even get to Malta, here, let me...
	Let me ask you about this.
	I've been reading a nightly story about global warming.
	I've been reading about penguins that are retreating in the Antarctic because it's too damn warm where they are.
	Tonight, here in the US, Graham, they're running a story about an ice chunk two times the size of Manhattan that just broke off from Antarctica.
	And when you begin to hear these stories, and you see our scientists and climatologists talking now about rapid climate change.
	Boy, are they running a lot of stories about rapid climate change.
	Yeah, we clearly are in a period of very rapid climate change at the moment.
	Well, if all of this ice were to melt, That would be very bad news, and it... Well, if all of the ice in Antarctica were to melt, you would look at virtually... Well, you'd look at every coastal city in the world being submerged.
	Yes, indeed.
	And so, is it possible, in your mind...
	That thousands and thousands of years could pass after an event like this, should it occur, and some future civilization would be digging down and finding these remarkable I think that if you take our culture today, what's distinctive about it is its global spread.
	We are all over the world.
	I mean, the signature of modern industrial society is not quite everywhere.
	It's not yet in the Brazilian rainforest, fortunately, although it is in some ways.
	But, you know, it's very, very widely distributed.
	And therefore it would take more than global floods flooding millions of square miles of coastline to completely eliminate all traces of us.
	It would take something of the order of an asteroid or a comet strike, I think, to do that.
	But an earlier civilization that had confined itself to coastlines That had chosen to live on the coast, which is a very sensible thing to do during an ice age, when the inland areas are extremely cold and unpleasant and almost inhabitable.
	Such a civilization would be selectively wiped out by flooding.
	So, while we see the signs of some major change, or we might be on the precipice of a major change, that's fair speculation, certainly.
	I think it's very fair speculation.
	That we're on the precipice of a major change.
	I think, you know, we have to realize that we as human beings are one of the most powerful forces operating in the world today.
	So we're quite capable of wiping ourselves out.
	We don't really even need nature to do it for us.
	Well, okay, so whether it's nature or by our hand, either way, we do seem to be on this precipice.
	And if we're in the midst of proving this has happened before, that would be a really good reason for people not to want to think about this, wouldn't it?
	Or a really good reason to want to think about it.
	Depending, yes.
	Depends on the person.
	Once you start putting the rise and fall of human civilizations into a perspective and realize that it's possible for whole episodes of the human story to be lost, then perhaps you have a greater investment in making sure that doesn't happen in the future.
	What about Malta?
	Malta is one of the areas that I focused on in Underworld, and I focused on it because although Malta is a tiny place today, a tiny island, in fact a group of three small islands in the Mediterranean, it has an unusually large significance in the ancient history of mankind.
	And that is because what are thought by archaeologists to be the first great temples in the world, We're built on Malta, and they're what's called megalithic temples made with huge stones, megaliths.
	The kind of stones that you see in a place like Stonehenge, for example.
	Right.
	These were used to construct a group of enormous temples on the Maltese islands, and these temples are dated back to 3,700 BC, so that takes us back 5,700 years ago from today.
	Um, they are the most spectacular and amazing temples you can imagine.
	Hardly anybody even hears of Malta.
	But my God, you go there and you see those temples, you see, you see megaliths 20 feet tall, towering above you, you see stones that weigh up to 100 tons, which have been brought into position at the very dawn of history.
	And, and raised up into these enormous temples.
	And a mystery strikes you.
	Where did they learn to do this?
	What's the background to this?
	The oldest temple on Malta is in many ways the most advanced.
	It's an enormous temple called Gigantia, that's after local folklore that says it must have been the work of giants.
	And it's dated to 3700 BC and it is a consummate work of construction by master builders and master engineers.
	The problem on Malta is there's no evidence Of the evolution of this type of architecture.
	In fact, according to official archaeology, there had only been human beings at all on Malta for just 1500 years before that.
	And when you look through the archaeological record, although you find them making mud huts and things like that, you don't find them making these fantastic megalithic temples.
	So it seems like part of the story is missing.
	And I began to look into the possibility that it could be missing underwater.
	Because when you do the science, And look at the map of Malta back through the ages.
	You find that today, although it's separated by 50 miles of sea from Sicily, 12,000 years ago it was joined to Sicily.
	It was part of Sicily, and Sicily in turn was joined to mainland Italy, so Malta was part of the mainland.
	And this has never been taken into account in considering the origins and development of the temples, and that's what I've tried to do.
	Just like we think that Central America was once, perhaps, connected to Cuba.
	So, you know, this may not be just one place.
	You're certainly investigating one area of the world.
	I'm confident that it's a worldwide problem.
	I mean, look at the coast of Japan, for example.
	Yeah, that's another area where I've put an enormous focus in over the last five years.
	And there's been a great deal of controversy about whether the underwater structures there are man-made or whether they're some kind of freak natural formations.
	And one of the things I've concentrated on doing in my new book and in the TV series that goes with it is to is to really explore that argument.
	And I took an extremely skeptical geologist with me to Japan to dive on the structures there.
	And even he had to admit that the most spectacular of all of these structures is one that he simply cannot explain by any known natural forces.
	So it's very important.
	You see, what happens whenever, it's something we touched on a bit earlier, but whenever you come up with a discovery which fundamentally challenges The accepted version of history, the first thing you must expect is several years of intense fire being trained upon you to test that discovery.
	And in a way, this is a good thing.
	It's a good thing that the scientific method requires high standards of proof.
	And that's what I set out to try to find.
	But it's also a bad thing because it discourages inquiry into unusual and extraordinary possibilities which deserve to be inquired into.
	Well, whatever part of the world it seems to be, Graham, we seem to have local myths that support the whole Great Flood idea, and that's universal.
	I mean, in every one of these areas there are myths.
	Now, we call them myths, but, you know, they probably have some origin of truth in them.
	I'm certain that they have a great amount of truth in them.
	Which has been overlooked.
	You see, when the flood myth first started to be investigated, first became realized that there were flood myths, this was back in the 19th century.
	And at the time, what was applied to those flood myths was the model of the Biblical flood.
	Scholars were at that time not disbelieving of the Bible and they believed in a biblical flood
	So the first flood evidence from other parts of the world and flood myths from other parts of the world were taken as
	evidence of the global nature of the biblical flood
	Then this as time passed and scientific archaeology developed this view began to be questioned that it became
	unpopular Among scientists to believe in such a thing as the global
	flood of Noah Described in the Bible and the new view began to take over
	the so-called rational scientific Western view began to take over that these were just myths
	Which had been made up by primitive people perhaps they experienced a small river flood and in their benighted
	ignorance They imagined that it had affected the whole world this
	believe it or not is the scholarly position on flood myths I've also heard reputable scholars say that flood myths are
	kind of psychological projections to do with the birth process
	That the embryo is in the womb, floating in fluid, and so we somehow have a natural tendency to imagine flood myths.
	To me, this is just garbage and hogwash.
	Flood myths are indeed universal.
	There's more than 600 myths from around the world.
	What they all speak of is a global flood that had a catastrophic effect on mankind.
	And what almost all of them say is that part of that catastrophic effect was the removal of a former civilization which had angered the gods and brought the flood down upon itself.
	And I don't think, now that we have very good science on the theories of cataclysms that hit the world at the end of the Ice Age, I don't think we can afford to ignore anymore the possibility that the Flood Myths may be speaking about the end of the Ice Age.
	I guess a lot of people would take the attitude that, you know what, I really might believe it, but hey, what can I do about it?
	If we're facing something fairly soon of that magnitude, even though we have a greater civilization, no doubt more will survive, it would so change the world, it would be such a gigantic event that the average person could have no effect on it whatsoever.
	And really that is more or less true, right?
	Well, it's certainly true that the average person can have no effect on it whatsoever.
	However, an eloquent and interested public that wants to know about blind spots and missing pages in our history, sooner or later, the pressure from that public will be felt by scholars to investigate this problem more thoroughly than it has been investigated.
	And I have to emphasize that, as far as I'm concerned, there is a real blind spot here.
	There's a real blind spot in archaeology, because of the vast area that was flooded at the end of the Ice Age.
	I mentioned it earlier, but it's 10 million square miles.
	That's three times the size of Canada.
	It's the size of Europe and China added together.
	It's the size of South America and the U.S.
	added together.
	Their blind spot in this area could lead to mankind's being blindsided.
	Definitely.
	Definitely.
	If we have an incomplete picture of our past, if we've built our picture, because our picture of the past, either consciously or unconsciously, forms the platform on which we build our future.
	And if that picture of the past is wrong, fundamentally wrong in major areas, then surely it's going to affect the way we look at our future too.
	And I really believe that that is why people are reluctant to embrace the concept, because of what could happen, not because of what happened, but because of what it might mean for us.
	I agree with you.
	I think there's no doubt about that.
	There is a sense in which, quote-unquote, alternative history is quite subversive, really, because it is, although it's not attacking or questioning any modern institution, It's attacking and questioning all the foundations on which modern institutions are built.
	Is it still your view, Graham, that somewhere, perhaps under the Sphinx, there lies a library of information that might be the key to opening up the knowledge of what once was?
	Yeah, I've got no reason to have abandoned that view which I came to and expressed quite a while ago in work with my good friend Robert Boval.
	For the last four years I have not been working on Egypt.
	I spent so much time involved in Egypt in the early, mid-1990s and through to the late 1990s that I decided deliberately to give myself a break from it.
	Sure.
	And not focus in on that hothouse All the time.
	I know, but there are supporting elements of what you're doing now.
	Yeah.
	It all ties together, as far as I'm concerned.
	I still remain convinced that there is a legacy in ancient Egyptian civilization, which goes back, way back, thousands and thousands of years back, to precisely this same period that we call the end of the Ice Age.
	And that was a period, it wasn't a single moment.
	It was a period of 10,000 years, between 17,000 and 7,000 years ago.
	And that's when everything happened for humanity.
	It's in exactly that period when the Ice Age is ending, the sea levels are rising, there's tremendous volcanic activity all around the world as continental plates shift with the ice burden lifted off them.
	It's exactly in that period that archaeologists start seeing the first tentative steps towards agriculture, the first evidence of agriculture.
	And what I'm wondering is, could those first agricultural Exactly right.
	That's what I meant when I said one sort of supports the other in a way.
	Yes, very much so.
	And the dating supports.
	that was destroyed by the flood.
	Exactly right.
	Exactly right.
	So that's what I meant when I said one sort of supports the other in a way.
	Yes, very much so.
	And the dating supports.
	And you know, I mean to raise a name that everybody has heard, which is the name of
	Atlantis.
	You know, one is...
	I don't know how it is in America, but in Britain, if you talk about Atlantis, you're
	automatically considered to be mad.
	You don't need to do anything else to qualify for the madhouse.
	Just say the word Atlantis, and they'll put you in it.
	However, that's a very irrational view of Atlantis.
	What's intriguing about the Plato story of Atlantis is that he actually puts a date on it, which very few myths do.
	He said that it happened 9,000 years before the story reached the Greeks.
	And that takes us back to 9600 B.C., which is 11,600 years ago, and that's smack in the middle of one of the big episodes of Sea Level Rise at the end of the Ice Age.
	So how did Plato know that date?
	I mean, if he'd made it up, and if he's just picking a date at random out of his imagination, Isn't it intriguing that the phenomenon he describes, which is a worldwide flood, a flood that affected both the Atlantic and the Mediterranean and which destroyed a great civilization, that such events were happening at that time?
	That all of this just so happens to coincide that the big red X goes right over that period of time again and again and again.
	This should begin to mean something to people.
	Yeah.
	It should.
	It certainly should begin to mean something.
	Because it's a crucial period for us, and it's one that we just don't know enough about.
	Well, and so then I can see how your research from Egypt naturally made the evolution to where it is now.
	I mean, it makes absolute sense to me.
	Yeah.
	It was a natural linear progression, and also partly an attempt to listen to my critics, of whom I have many, who were saying, where's the hard evidence?
	Where's the real evidence that we can touch, that we can see, that we can weigh, that we can measure?
	Which says that there was a lost civilization, and that's why some years ago now, I learned to dive, and why diving has become such an important part of my life, because the answer, if it's anywhere, has got to be underwater.
	What is it like to see it for yourself?
	Wonderful.
	Wonderful.
	I have had the most amazing experiences underwater in the last four years.
	To see, for example, an enormous megalithic stone circle, 100 feet underwater, still intact, off the coast of Japan.
	In beautiful water, which is so limpid and blue that you can see for three, four hundred feet underwater.
	It's just incredible.
	And to drop down through this, onto this, the most amazing structure.
	It's a huge stone circle.
	The central upright is 14 feet high.
	It's surrounded by upright inner circle.
	Around it, there's a central pathway.
	It's the most amazing thing.
	To see something like that at that depth is surreal.
	Well, I can only then ask you about your own personal experience.
	Is there any way in your mind, after seeing it, that you can say to yourself that this is not... Or is there any way you can imagine in your mind this is all sort of a natural 100 monkeys kind of... Well, no.
	That's why I took a very skeptical German geologist with me to dive on that stone circle that I've just been describing.
	Um, because I realize that there's just no point in me arguing that these things are traces of an earlier civilization if geologists can stand up and say, hey, they're just natural.
	They're not even man-made at all.
	So I needed to rule that out, and I'm glad to say that that has been ruled out in the question of this massive stone circle at Karama.
	All right.
	Hold it right there.
	When we come back, we'll try to get to the phones.
	Graham Hancock is my guest.
	The questioning, I'm sure, will go all over the place, as Graham has gone all over the place.
	I'm Art Bell.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	From west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222, or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
	To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	I call this relevancy in bumper music.
	Good morning, everybody.
	Graham Hancock is here, and we're talking about ancient civilizations far below the water.
	Going back, oh gee, 11,000, 11,500 years.
	Long, long time.
	A lot longer than we originally thought anything could really be out there.
	And we'll get right back to it in your phone calls in a moment.
	All right, I want to remind everybody, the best way to handle with transatlantic or Pacific calls, there is a little time lag.
	So the best way to handle this is to have you ask a question in its entirety and then pause and allow Graham to respond to it.
	Otherwise, if you try to conduct a very fast-paced two-way conversation, you end up sort of walking over each other.
	So it's kind of a learned talent.
	And so that's probably how you should try and ask your question of Graham.
	Just before going to the phones, and that's what we're about to do, since we have found so much evidence for those with minds open enough, or in your case, people who are able to dive and see the evidence for themselves, of something that occurred 11,000, 11,500 years ago, whatever, this great flood, then Is there any evidence at all of going back yet another period or another period?
	In other words, anything suggesting that this may be a cyclical thing that happens about every 11,500 years?
	I haven't... I haven't... I haven't concerned myself with areas further back than the end of the last ice age because it seems to me the simplest and the most obvious solution To the problem of the myth and to the problem of very puzzling underwater Structures, but I mean one thing to bear in mind is I think most scientists are agreed that anatomically modern human beings people who look just like you and me who behave just like you and me have been around for for more than 100,000 years Possibly a lot more but certainly for more than 120,000 years and it does seem bizarre that we should only be
	Uh, achieve, you know, one high civilization, one pattern of civilization during that time.
	I mean, starting from about 5,000 years ago or so, perhaps a bit before that.
	Um, what were we doing with ourselves during the, you know, the other 95,000 years?
	That's the problem for me.
	Possibly coming and going at intervals.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Alright, well, let's go to the phones.
	A lot of people want to ask you questions.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Graham M. Gok.
	Hello!
	Hi, it's me there.
	Hi, where are you even?
	I am in Idaho.
	This is Eileen.
	Oh, Eileen.
	I'm sorry.
	All right.
	OK.
	I actually have a question basically in regards to the debunkers of your theory.
	When I was in high school, during my American history class, my history teacher had put to us, why does every culture have a flood story?
	And then his response to that was because every culture has always been built on a waterfront.
	And you addressed that a little bit earlier.
	However, recently on PBS, I saw something that said that after, or during one of the ice ages, I want to say it's the Bering Sea, I am probably wrong.
	The Bering Strait, between Alaska and Siberia.
	Okay, that there was a break in the land mass that caused, that did cause a very serious flood that was imprinted into the And to humanity's subconscious, and everybody built a story around it, a myth around it.
	The thing is, okay, that explains Europe.
	How does it explain the fact that even Native Americans have a flood story?
	Because the flood, or flooding, was a universal phenomenon at the end of the Ice Age.
	I again come back to the To the basic figures which geologists accept, which is that all around the world, the amount of coastline, it's not just coastline, in the case of China, for example, a thousand miles of coast was just wiped out.
	That when you add all these areas up, you come to an area which is ten million square miles, which is as big as a continent, that has been swallowed up by the sea and never properly looked at by archaeologists.
	It's true that there's a thing called marine archaeology, But they're primarily interested in shipwrecks because they don't believe that there are anything of great interest to find underwater regarding human settlements.
	Oh, by the way, somebody sent me an interesting note by computer when we were wondering earlier about the world's major technological militaries like ours and the Soviets and so forth.
	They said, well, look, you can imagine that if they had seen, plotted, or seen on sonar, or even visually, any of the things we're talking about right now, They would certainly not say so, because that would identify exactly where their subs had been, and they don't do those things in the military.
	No.
	There would be no incentive for announcing this at all.
	Quite the opposite.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi, Graham.
	Hi.
	I wanted to ask if you could share an area where I could do some research on the biblical flood.
	Yeah.
	I know a gentleman who visits my website quite regularly who is an expert on the subject
	and has very intriguing views about it.
	He's called Ward Sanford.
	And I suggest you check into my website, into the message board on my website, and have a look there.
	You'll see his name has come up.
	If you run the search and follow what he's been saying, I think you could find that very interesting.
	That's Ward Sanford?
	Ward Sanford.
	S-A-N-F-O-R-D.
	And in fact, I know that he's planning a book specifically on the issue of the biblical flood.
	Uh, in, uh, in a year or so from now.
	And my website is www.grahamhancock.com.
	And of course we have a link on my site.
	And you have a link on your site.
	If you go to the message board there and search the name Ward Sanford, you'll find some, some interesting posts which will lead you in other directions.
	There's also a book by Ryan and Pittman called Noah's Flood, which is, which is attempting to trace Noah's Flood to the Black Sea.
	Yeah?
	Because the Black Sea was cataclysmically flooded at the end of the Ice Age as well.
	What happened was that, I have to express this in kilometers because I don't know it in miles, but the area of the Black Sea is half a million square kilometers.
	And that area was flooded very rapidly at the end of the Ice Age, quite late, round about 7,500 years ago.
	And these two scholars, and they both are major scholars, I believe that that may have been the source of the flood of Noah story in the Bible.
	My only criticism of that is that that's half a million square kilometers, but in fact in square kilometers, 25 million square kilometers were flooded around the world.
	And I think the place really to be looking for direct connections to the biblical flood may more likely be in the Persian Gulf, which was another area That was extensively flooded at the end of the Ice Age.
	It was a beautiful area, a wonderful valley during the Ice Age with a huge river flowing through it.
	It's almost like the Garden of Eden.
	The combined streams of the Tigris and the Euphrates.
	No water in the Gulf at all from the sea and then with the rising sea levels it was flooded and it all went underwater.
	It's so hard for the average person to even begin to grasp these concepts that everything could have been So different, and so changed, and that the maps would all be different, and land masses would be... Everything changes.
	The whole face of the Earth changes.
	One of the best ways to see this is graphically, and I do have a TV series with this which will go out on the Learning Channel in the US in a couple of months, where we show this graphically.
	When you take all the latest data on sea level rise and apply it to the globe, you see that the globe looks staggeringly different.
	Twelve or fourteen thousand years ago, and you suddenly realize that it's really possible that archaeologists just haven't been looking in the right place, because they've been thinking with a modern mindset, not an Ice Age mindset.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
	Hello.
	Good morning, gentlemen.
	Good morning.
	Where are you, sir?
	This is Kat from near San Francisco.
	Graham, I do sincerely believe that perhaps your landslide theory on the city outside of Cuba is perhaps the wrong geological approach.
	Could be.
	It's not really a theory or even my theory.
	It was actually a theory that was mentioned to me uh... by a geologist who was trying to explain uh... what
	these ruins if anything could be of cuba so i don't claim to be a
	specialist on the cuban ruins i think they're just uh... another intriguing
	discovery and i'm confident we're going to see much more information about them during
	the coming year Tell me what you think.
	Well, you know, now, Graham, I don't know whether you know or not, the latest news is they not only have the side-scan radar in which they said they saw buildings, pyramidal shapes, roads, every sign of a metropolitan-type city, actually, but now they've been down with video cameras And they've come back with additional evidence, and National Geographic is apparently involved in some way or another, but... Well, that's great.
	I mean, that's what we want to see.
	We want to see the video from the site.
	Unfortunately, no diver is ever going to be able to go down to that depth, but we can go down in submersibles, and that's what's needed next.
	And I'm hoping that the reason that there's been a silence on this, a relative silence since the first announcements were made, Is that the Discoverers are putting together a proper expedition to do this job properly so that lots of nit-picking stupidity cannot be directed against them afterwards.
	If they're involved with National Geographic, that's great.
	That is precisely what is occurring right now, Graham.
	They're keeping it very tightly held.
	I've had Linda Moulton Howe's done several interviews with Paulina Zalitsky.
	Yeah, we talked to her too, yeah.
	So there you are, and she's given us the lowdown, but yeah, they're keeping quiet generally in the media about all of this.
	They're wise to do so, until they can deliver really persuasive proof, because as I said earlier, the automatic reaction of the establishment to news like this is to try to crush it at the outset, before it has a chance to grow, and that's when it's most vulnerable.
	For their right to keep their cars close to their chest until they're in a position to go public.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
	Hello.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, sir.
	Where are you?
	I'm down around Corpus Christi.
	Okay.
	Well, I thank you for great programs, Art.
	You keep these truck drivers awake out here early in the morning.
	You're very welcome.
	Graham, you're talking about the great flood and everything and how it covered up the coastal areas, and they're talking about quickening and the climate.
	And the Arctic melts and it's going to cover up more coastline.
	Does that mean in another 10,000 years or eventually the whole Earth is going to be covered with water?
	No.
	I don't think that that's... there just isn't enough water on the Earth to do that.
	That cannot happen.
	But we could look at a 40 or 50 foot rise in sea level.
	That's not out of the question at all if Antarctica melts down.
	A 40 or 50 feet rise in sea level would be a catastrophic disaster for our civilization.
	It would be interesting to project a 50 foot rise in sea level and simply show a new map.
	I mean, that could be done right now, couldn't it?
	Yeah, well it would wipe out every coastal city in the world, for a start.
	And most of the great cities, New York, San Francisco, Tokyo, London, are pretty much coastal cities.
	All gone.
	All gone.
	And you would have an utterly new map.
	It does not seem to me that it would be that difficult for somebody to produce such a map.
	I can definitely be done.
	The geologists that I've been working with, obviously with a team in Britain, because that's where I'm based, they're at the University of Durham in the north of England, they have one of the best computer models of sea level rise in the past, but equally good models
	exist in geology departments in the US.
	You can take that model, which looks at lowered sea level in the past and the gradual rise of sea level.
	I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be possible to project it forward as well
	and look at what a 50-foot rise in sea level would do.
	I hope one day these programs are going to be available to the public
	because it just enables you to stand on any coastline in the world at any period in the last 20,000 years
	and see how it would have looked within all the best evidence.
	Or how it may look.
	Or how it may look.
	But it can be predictive as well.
	Absolutely.
	All right.
	West of the Rockies, you are on the air with Graham Hancock.
	Good morning.
	Okay.
	Hi, Art.
	Hello.
	And Graham.
	Yeah, Art, for you.
	We have a storm.
	I'm out in the darkness of Coos Bay.
	My name's Jack.
	I'm in the darkness of Coos Bay.
	We have a storm come in here at 70 mile an hour winds.
	It knocked down the poles.
	I have a 7600 volt line in the front of my yard.
	It wasn't that I had emergency power.
	Well, I probably wouldn't be talking to you right now.
	Yeah, the whole world right now is experiencing it.
	Yeah, and the weatherman couldn't predict it.
	It just came in and you would not believe it.
	It was awesome.
	I understand.
	Do you have a question for Graham?
	Anyway, for Graham, yeah, you know, we're about, what, 11,000 years past what's considered the meltdown of the ice age, are we not?
	Well, it carried on until about 7,000 years ago, but if you were looking for a central
	focus of it, that would be roughly between 14 and 11,000 years ago.
	Yeah, okay, well anyway, the thing is I sit at 65 feet above, I'm on the inlet bay is
	where I'm at, and I'm 65 feet above the bay, anyway, but I was looking at this, they talk
	about if Antarctica melted off.
	We'd have a rise of 300 feet.
	Well, we've already risen, what, 150 feet, have we not?
	Since the end of the Ice Age?
	More.
	The sea level rise since the end of the Ice Age has been 400 feet.
	OK, so the thing is, we don't have too much more to go, is what you'll be saying, yes?
	Well, I think the most threatening ice mass is the ice mass on Antarctica, and scientists have been aware how dangerous it is for quite a while.
	I believe it's the East Antarctic ice sheet which could theoretically slip into the sea.
	And the problem with that is that it would occur almost as an instantaneous thing.
	Yeah, if it came as a slide of a massive quantity of ice at once, this would have very catastrophic
	effects.
	I mean, if an ice sheet the size of Canada falls into the sea, you can imagine what sort
	of splash it's going to make.
	And tiny waves.
	And the displacement of huge amounts of water.
	I mean, that on its own would be a worldwide cataclysm of horrific extent.
	Indeed.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Mike from Amargosa calling.
	Yes, sir.
	I wanted to say something about earthquakes in two of the areas that Graham described in India.
	In October, there was a 0.6 earthquake in the ocean, 50 kilometers from Pondicherry.
	That's on the east coast of India, yeah?
	Yeah, southeast.
	I happened to be around 150 kilometers from there at the time, so I can tell you for sure there was an earthquake.
	And the Indian newspaper said that because of this Pondicherry quake, the scientists Would have to redraw the earthquake zone map of India because previously they had not considered this to be a high-risk area.
	Yeah, that's very interesting.
	An earthquake, now you say this was 200 kilometers offshore?
	Oh no, 50 kilometers from Pondicherry towards the ocean.
	In other words, in the ocean, 50 kilometers from Pondicherry.
	I get you, yeah.
	Yeah, it is unusual.
	Earthquakes in that area are unusual.
	It's a stable part of the continent.
	Up in northern India, a different matter of course, in northwest India, very bad earthquakes as a result of mountain building processes there.
	But in southeast India, no, it's supposed to be stable, so that is interesting.
	Yes, the one in the north, of course, was famous for being devastating, the one in Gujarat.
	That's right.
	That was one of the worst earthquakes that have occurred for a very long time, and it had catastrophic effects in Gujarat, which can still be seen to this day, because I was out there relatively recently.
	But that's an area where you expect earthquakes, and where they're regular.
	But in Southeast India, they're not.
	Yeah, well, since with this new information, I guess they can be expected now there also, it would seem that two of these civilizations that are underwater may actually be an earthquake zone.
	So I thought that might be interesting.
	It's a very interesting point, and one worth developing, because the scientists who are studying the end of the Ice Age have found a very curious link between periods of rapid meltdown of the ice And periods of increased earthquake and volcanic activity around the world.
	All right.
	Sorry.
	No, I'm sorry, Graham.
	I've got to take a break here.
	We're at the bottom of the hour, so hold on.
	Caller, very briefly, you're in Armagosa?
	Yeah.
	To what station are you listening?
	Well, right now, 95.1.
	95.1.
	K-N-Y-E, sir.
	Oh, sorry.
	Thank you and good morning.
	We'll take a break here.
	It's 95.1 KNYE here in Pahrump.
	He's hearing in Armagosa.
	Graham Hancock is my guest.
	We'll be right back.
	What will you do when you're lonely?
	No one waiting by your side.
	You've been run, I've been rushed and gone You know it's just your foolish plan
	Hey love, you got me on my knees, yeah Well it's alright and it's coming up
	We gotta get right back to where we started from Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nigh from West of the Rockies
	at 1-800-9-4.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	To reach out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them
	dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nye.
	You ever listen to the words of this and it's all right?
	And it's coming on.
	We've got to get back to where we started from.
	It's coming on.
	Maybe it is alright.
	Maybe it's just the way things happen.
	The question is, of course, we don't exactly know where we started, but we're in the midst of finding out.
	Once again, from across the land and across the sea, here is Graham Hancock.
	Graham, welcome back.
	Thank you.
	Lots and lots of people waiting to speak with you, so here we go.
	First time caller on the line, your turn with Graham Hancock.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Art.
	How are you?
	Just fine.
	Where are you?
	I'm calling from Yakima.
	We're listening to 1280 KIT.
	In Washington, all right.
	In Washington.
	Hey, Graham, I've got a question for you.
	Are you familiar with the Pacific Northwest area?
	I'm not extremely familiar with it because I've been to, you're talking Seattle and this kind of area.
	Yeah, I've been there but not very familiar with it.
	Not very familiar with it.
	Okay, well my question was on the same topic as the last caller.
	In the past couple of years we've had a lot of activity up here with earthquakes and so on and so forth.
	My curious thought is What are your predictions for the next couple of years?
	I'm not really in the prediction business, particularly local predictions.
	I can look at global trends and say what I think is going down.
	I can't really give you a good answer to that question.
	I respect that enormously.
	We have plenty of people who do make those predictions.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Art.
	Good morning, Graham.
	Hi.
	I'm calling from just outside of Kansas City.
	I'm listening to 1200 WAI.
	Yes, sir.
	My question is, between 1986 and 1990, Archeology, now I can't talk, Archeological Magazine, published an article about some college students from UCLA
	being in the desert of either Arizona or Nevada and they found a rock that wasn't indigenous to
	that area. They took this rock back, they did every test imaginable to it and they ended
	up finally cutting it in half and finding a spark plug inside. How do you feel this falls
	in with your theories?
	Very interesting.
	I've heard about many such examples.
	There's an excellent book called Forbidden Archaeology by Cremo and Thompson, which brings in a lot of good data on these kind of out-of-place artifacts, as they're called.
	To be honest, I don't have a view on it.
	I find the world is such an amazing place and that human beings are such amazing creatures and it's just such a mystery to be alive.
	Frankly, I'm open to any possibility.
	I was saying a bit earlier that modern humans have been known to exist.
	I mean, people like us have been known to exist for about 100 or 120,000 years.
	That doesn't mean that our species has not existed longer.
	I think that one of the great mysteries still to be solved is the origin of humanity.
	So I don't think we can rule out completely vastly older levels and layers of civilization.
	It's just something that I'm not... You know, one only has so much time, and my time, I focus on the most recent and most likely episode, which is the end of the Ice Age, and that's just 17,000 down to 7,000 years ago.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
	Where are you, please?
	Oh, hello, gentlemen.
	Yes, hi.
	Hi, this is Chris from Chicago.
	The League Jockey's Cousteau, When he was investigating the Bimini Wall, it claimed that he had a lot of problems with magnetic compasses and that they gave out and quit.
	And I was wondering if you had any such trouble in your investigation?
	Well, I've dived at Bimini quite extensively.
	I've made two quite major expeditions there.
	I did not notice magnetic anomalies, although I've heard of these.
	But I do think that, you know, the Bimini Road, as it's called, was written off by scholars back in the 1970s.
	A bunch of geologists went over, they looked at it, they concluded that it's a natural formation made up of a thing called beach rock, which indeed does break up into blocky, regular formations.
	But I think that the work was done on this in the 70s was way too limited to come to such a conclusion.
	And there's a great deal of contradiction in the evidence.
	And what none of the evidence takes into account at Bimini is that Bimini stood on the northwest end of an enormous island during the Ice Age.
	The whole of the Grand Bahama Bank was exposed 400 feet above sea level and would have been a much more attractive
	place to live than the continental United States at that time which was frozen stiff. So I
	think when we assess the Bimini Road we have to assess the Ice Age history of the area as
	well and that so far hasn't been done. I've tried to do it in my new project. I also
	think that it's noteworthy that some of these findings off the coast of Cuba and Okinawa coincide
	with the lost cities of Atlantis and Mu also the Bermuda Triangle and the Devil's Triangle.
	Well, we've got a whole range of ideas and thoughts about mysterious parts of the world, some of which are better substantiated than others.
	But I think the one common factor which connects all of these places is that they were above water at the end of the Ice Age, and they're underwater now.
	All right.
	Western Rockies, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	Good morning.
	Yes, sir.
	You're on the air.
	Okay, my name is Ralph.
	I'm from Montana.
	Yes, sir.
	I've got a question regarding the great floods of Missoula.
	The Missoula flood, yes.
	Lake Missoula.
	Glacial Lake Missoula.
	Yeah, and I was wondering how that might relate to the overall scheme of your discussion.
	It relates very closely to it.
	When you talk about rising sea levels, obviously they have to rise because water is pouring into the sea.
	And the reason, um, what happened when the ice caps at the end of the Ice Age melted, first off, let's take a step back.
	When we talk about these ice caps that covered North America and Northern Europe, these things were two miles thick.
	And they covered millions of square miles.
	Now you're looking at just an enormous amount of ice.
	All that ice was formed by water that had come out of the sea.
	So when the ice melted, it all had to go back into the sea.
	And what happened was, this did not happen gradually.
	The ice would melt at a regular rate.
	But it would form huge lakes on the ice cap itself, enormous lakes, which gradually filled up with meltwater and were sealed off from the sea by a plug of ice.
	When that plug of ice, when that wall of ice broke, as it inevitably and eventually would, then all the water that had been stored up for maybe two or three thousand years before in a glacial lake, all of it would flush out into the ocean like a toilet flushing.
	In one huge event, and the flooding from Glacial Lake Missoula, which happened more than once, is exactly an example of that.
	You're looking at massive waves of water.
	Some of the calculations show waves a thousand feet high, tearing down the ice caps.
	So you're looking not only at the sea level rising and immersing coastlines, but also terrifying events on land itself, as these ice caps broke down.
	Thousand foot wave, now.
	Yes.
	That's something to think about, isn't it?
	Mm-hmm.
	It's something to think about, and it should remind us that these floods were coming off the land into the sea, as well as from the sea onto the land.
	Aye, aye, aye.
	First time caller online.
	You're on the air with Graham Hancock.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi, Graham.
	Hi.
	I'm Georgia.
	I'm calling from Birmingham.
	We're listening to you on WRC.
	Yes, ma'am.
	And I was wondering, you've touched on the Atlantis Theory a few times, but it always It puzzled me that Atlantis could be one civilization in one spot.
	And I always wondered, a civilization that advanced would have expanded itself.
	Well, if you look like now, that's what they're finding out.
	It is exactly what's being found out.
	And of course, if we take Atlantis back to the original, the oldest surviving source of the myth is in the work of Plato.
	And he does say that the Atlantis empire, as he called it, Uh, was widespread, that it was in the Mediterranean as well as in the Atlantic, and that the events that destroyed it took place in the Mediterranean as well as in the Atlantic, and that they took place around 11,500 years ago.
	There's only one thing that was happening then which fits the bill, and that is, and that is this cataclysmic, uh, rise in sea levels.
	So, I think it is a much more widespread thing than just one civilization.
	Well, it always struck me that a civilization that advanced would have just stayed in one spot anyway.
	No, it would not have stayed in one spot.
	It might have chosen to stay close to the sea.
	I think just as the world today has different levels of social development in it, that was probably the case In the past as well, and these may have been people who did not want to go far inland, particularly when the climate inland was very bad.
	That would certainly make sense, and they would not be, of course, as widespread as we are today.
	No, definitely not.
	So, such an event today would leave survivors, but it would be a world you would not recognize, right?
	You'd not recognize it.
	And you know, we've all become such specialists in the modern world.
	I mean, we each do our particular thing well, but we don't know how anybody else does their thing.
	And it's a terrifying prospect to consider the disruption to society that would occur with such an event.
	And I suspect that our technology-based society is more fragile than it seems to be, simply because of this specialization of knowledge.
	Because I depend on people who know things that I just don't know and am never going to know.
	And that's true of everyone.
	Graham, let me ask you this.
	If some science begins to recognize that we may be on the precipice of an event of this sort, or may be close to it, do you believe that those counseling governments, who are in charge of protecting us somehow or another, what would they do with this information?
	Well, I've always been doubtful whether real information about an impending global cataclysm would be shared.
	I think that people in government would find lots of reasons to persuade themselves not to share it.
	And in a way, that's what government does.
	It lies about things.
	That's right.
	That's exactly how it survives, actually.
	It's part of the definition of what a government is, unfortunately.
	So I'm very suspicious of any early warning system actually being communicated to the public, simply because You know, the officials and the bureaucrats concerned would worry about panic and they would say, well, maybe it's not going to happen.
	And anyway, we've got to look after ourselves.
	So, you know, all of that.
	All right.
	A wildcard line.
	You're on air with Graham Hancock.
	Hello.
	Hello there.
	Hi.
	Where are you, sir?
	I'm in actually Prince George, British Columbia, Canada.
	All right.
	My name is David, by the way.
	Hi, David.
	We all know that South America's, like, ripped away from Africa.
	Like, it put together, like, puzzle pieces.
	Long time ago, yes.
	And the Mid-Atlantic Ridge rips from North Pole to South Pole, basically.
	Sure.
	Yeah.
	I've been looking at a globe, and just a theory.
	If Aries Rock was a meteor, and you know how when, like, a meteor hits, the center of it will bubble back up?
	Yep.
	If Aries Rock did that, created Australia, the other side of the planet would rip open.
	Yeah, that's called isostasy.
	You get the effect on the other side of the planet, for sure.
	So, I don't know if that's a good theory or a bad theory, it just seems to fit the bill.
	Ah, it's a good, it's, I mean, certainly if you're looking at, let's take an example of a known asteroid strike, which is the so-called KT event 65 million years ago, where a big asteroid... In the Yucatan.
	In the Yucatan, hit into the Yucatan.
	Well, that caused disruption on the Antipodeal, the opposite side of the Earth.
	Uh, when that happened.
	But it certainly didn't rip a giant rip down the planet like the Middletown Bridge.
	No, it didn't.
	It didn't do that.
	But, but the evidence is there.
	Of a giant rip down the planet?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, not necessarily caused by a collision event, though.
	I mean, the planet has its own dynamism.
	No.
	Um, another thing I was going to get into was in China, with the giant pyramid and the Pyramid of Giza and various other pyramids around the planet.
	Yeah.
	They seem to, they seem to attract or concentrate kinetic or magnetic energies.
	Now if you knew something was going to happen, and you were able, or if the magnetic pull of the planet was in flux, and you could lift up a thousand ton block of stone and maneuver it where you wanted to, could this not, if the planet was in flux, when the planet was in flux, could not that centralized magnetic field draw up from the planet?
	I don't know if you... I'm getting into an area that's out of my depth here.
	Okay, here's one.
	The Great Wall of China.
	Could that not have been built as a water break?
	I think very unlikely.
	I've walked the Great Wall of China, and I don't think it was a water break at all.
	No.
	The topography's too up and down.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
	Hello.
	Thank goodness.
	I'm trying to ask this question.
	Okay.
	Where are you, hon?
	My name is Brandy.
	I'm in East Tennessee.
	I'm the one that called you and told you about the ear candles.
	Oh, thank you, Brandy.
	Was that yummy or what?
	Well, it was a traumatizing experience.
	Anyway, do you have a question for Graham?
	I have.
	Mr. Hancock, did I hear you, you were talking earlier about radio commandeering, how you sometimes get in trouble for discounting it?
	Yeah, I've often got into trouble for discounting it.
	Actually, it's not that I discount it.
	It's just that I believe that That the orthodox academic case is already so well made and so publicly made and we take it in with our mother's milk.
	There was a time when I felt it wasn't my obligation to put the orthodox side of the case, more to put the unorthodox and alternative side.
	But I think it's important to take carbon dating into account.
	Well, my question is, from what I understand, it can be that But the results can be tainted on the sample in any number of ways.
	They can.
	Carbon dating is very susceptible to contamination.
	That's why, that is why.
	I do not understand why it's such a rock for archaeology when it can be thrown off all the time by any old thing.
	You're absolutely right.
	It can be and it is thrown off and this is one of the reasons that I've been leery about carbon dating in the past.
	What I've observed is that when Carbon dates support a mainstream theory.
	Then those carbon dates are automatically accepted without question.
	When the carbon dates contradict the mainstream theory, they're treated as anomalies and ignored.
	That's kind of like a lie detector.
	Yeah.
	I see.
	Because they don't have anything better?
	That's why they lay on it so much?
	Well, they write on it because it is a good method within its limits.
	The limits involve contamination, first and foremost.
	And secondly, the fact that the test can only be run on organic materials.
	And you have to make the assumption that the organic material is as old as the structure you're looking at.
	And that assumption sometimes is incorrect.
	Okay.
	Thank you very much.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with not a lot of time left with Graham Hancock.
	Hello.
	Hello, this is Jim in Canberra, Oregon.
	Yes, sir.
	Back to Antarctica.
	Now, Antarctica itself is a landmass, correct?
	It's a couple of land masses, yeah.
	What is the percentage of land mass versus the percentage of ice mass?
	I actually don't know.
	I'm honestly not sure.
	Okay, because I was curious if... It's an interesting question, and of course the ice itself, were you to remove that ice all at once, it wouldn't show the total amount of land because the ice itself presses down on the land underneath it and forces that land down perhaps as much as half a mile into the Earth's crust.
	So when the ice is lifted off, the land would rebound and gradually more land would emerge.
	Okay.
	Very interesting.
	Very interesting.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Graham Hancock.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi, where are you?
	I'm in Temecula.
	Temecula, alright.
	Yeah.
	I had a question for Grant.
	You had a caller, or Art had a caller, I believe it was last week.
	He was talking about hollow earth.
	Uh-huh.
	And he said that there was a place up there, Crocker Island, up in the Arctic.
	Up in the Arctic?
	Yeah.
	And he says that they were saying sometimes, or the Eskimos were saying, that the Vikings sometime during an Ice Age had moved north up to that area.
	Now, if they had done so, and you're talking about the advanced civilizations, how advanced would they be today if they were still there?
	Well, I have to say, I believe in lots of things, or I'm open-minded to lots of things, but the Hollow Earth Theory isn't one of them.
	I just don't buy that at all.
	I think it contradicts all the good evidence we have, and I think it's irrational.
	to pursue it. Not that I object to people pursuing it if they want to, it's just not for me.
	Well, of course, we know something about the Earth's innards, but not a very great deal.
	No, it's true. It's a great terra incognita, literally. And a fascinating subject. But
	sometimes I find that it's possible to move the argument on too far, so you find yourself so far
	out on a limb that you're not arguing about anything sensible.
	And that's why I personally stay away from hollow earth.
	What you're doing is tough enough and going to meet stiff enough resistance.
	Yeah, and I don't want to create another stick for my own back.
	So, your book is out in Great Britain right now.
	Can I just say again, my website?
	Oh, absolutely, yes.
	You've got a link to it on yours, which is www.grahamhancock.com.
	We have a news desk on that website which has got links to a lot of the world press on the Indian underwater cities.
	People just need to come back through that.
	And then the message board has had a lot of discussion on this subject and anybody be welcome to come and join in and join us discussing these subjects.
	All right.
	Where does your investigation go from here?
	Well, in less than a month's time, I go back to Southeast India to the site that I mentioned there, which has this enormous U-shaped structure and 27 other structures.
	We got a specialist team Going there with high-tech equipment and we're going to explore and map all of these structures and try to get samples from them which can be dated and that's being done in conjunction with India's National Institute of Oceanography.
	Well Graham, I hope once you've done that we can have you back on and get the latest right away.
	I'd love it if we could do that.
	Alright, good.
	And I hope your website can take all the hits.
	Thanks, Art.
	Graham, it's been a pleasure.
	Thank you.
	Real nice to talk to you again.
	Good night, my friend.
	Keep well.
	Bye-bye.
	That's Graham Hancock.
	Boy, it's been a long, long time.
	Great guy.
	Kind of a modern Indiana Jones.
	Underwater.

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