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Feb. 5, 2002 - Art Bell

02:35:31

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Dr. Edward Tenner - Technology and Unintended Consequences. R.C. Hoagland - Nuclear Technology

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	♪♪♪ From the high desert...
	Good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in all 24 time zones covered by the world and this program, Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm Art Bell, and it's great to be here.
	I've got a surprise coming up for you in a moment, an unscheduled appearance.
	Guess I do a lot of that, don't I?
	Anyway, stay exactly where you are, because coming up in a moment, news about Mars and a lot more.
	Looking quickly at the headlines, alleging he was trained by Al-Qaeda and then conspired with the Taliban to kill America, John Walker was indicted on 10 charges by a federal grand jury today, could spend life in prison.
	Congress dug forcefully into the Enron debacle today with a second spina for Kenneth Ley, the former chairman of the energy trading firm.
	So it gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, this story.
	How did I know that would?
	Governors and state legislators are weighing whether to clamp down on the public's access to government documents and meetings.
	Uh-oh.
	Driven by worries that terrorists could use the information plan attacks or escape capture.
	Those proposals have dismayed open government advocates in the media who warn that sweeping, such a sweeping approach, are they crazy, would block a key element of democratic society.
	Yeah, that's right, public scrutiny of government.
	But you know, last night, for example, when we had Linda Moulton Howe on and company, And we heard about the nuclear reactors, you know, obviously two or three people fast-blasted me.
	Traitors!
	Traitors!
	Telling the enemy what to do!
	Give me a blinking break!
	If the enemy does know where our nuclear reactors are and what the weaknesses are, gee, let's see, which seems more important?
	That the public be able to inquire into these things and call attention to them before disasters occur?
	Or that we not tell terrorists something they already know?
	Hmm.
	Let's weigh these two.
	The public's right to know, the public's right to question certain practices of the government, versus the terrorists might hear it and gain some knowledge.
	You know, we can go too far.
	We can't go too far, and when we begin to approach things like this, we are going too far.
	Somebody better stop that one quickly.
	I guess I'm an open government advocate for the most part.
	Sun lamps may double cancer risk.
	Well, how about that?
	Tanning lamps can double the risk of some common types of skin cancer, particularly for the young.
	According to researchers who suggest that tanning salons should be closed to minors.
	Hmm.
	In a study to appear tomorrow in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute, researchers found that people who used tanning devices were 1.5 to 2.5 times more likely to have common types of skin cancer.
	Very, very, very interesting.
	I have some incredible stories for you, but I'm going to hold them because we've got a special little surprise coming up for you in a moment.
	some of you may have already guessed just by my suggesting it has to do with Mars.
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	And now a one-time advisor to NASA, advisor to Walter C. Cronkite, Angstrom Science Award
	winner, and budding movie mogul from the mountains of New Mexico,
	Richard C. Hoagland.
	Good evening, my friend.
	Hello, how you doing, Richard?
	You know, the Chinese have this curse about living in interesting times.
	Yes, and we're really cursed.
	Oh, are we cursed.
	You know, I wouldn't want to be alive at any other moment than right now, because it's like the pit in the pendulum.
	We've got this incredible set of opportunities we also have this really nasty set of
	problems and it's like a huge decision which way are we going to go
	up or down and tonight I'm going to talk about the up part
	because I'm hearing something a little weird on your phone Richard
	a very high-pitched weirdness I don't hear a thing uh, where's the bell? is it of cordless?
	nope who strange
	It may not even be heard on most radios, but it's because it's very high-pitched.
	Very interesting.
	Anyway... No, this is the normal landline we usually talk on.
	Okay.
	Anyway, last time I was on the show, we talked about Odyssey and what's going to happen in the next few weeks or a few days now.
	That's right, yes.
	With the prioritization, for some bizarre reason, of Cydonia.
	Right.
	And the taking of these color-themis images That are going to knock a lot of people's socks off.
	I hope so.
	And I said, you know, I hope so too, but I think I have more than a little hope here tonight to communicate.
	I said that I saw this as potentially part of a pattern.
	You know, I like patterns.
	I know you do.
	Well, two more dots have appeared on our radar screen as part of the pattern.
	A few days ago, the president, as part of the 2003 budget, which as you know is published every year, At this time, announced a revitalization of NASA's nuclear electric program.
	Now, you may not remember, and I'm sure a lot of the audience don't remember, that about 10 years ago, NASA did have a nuclear reactor program for powering things in space.
	And it was headquartered at NASA Lewis, which is the center, the NASA center that I was invited to give Sedonia briefings at three times running.
	Well, I know that we have sent several packages into space with nuclear power of various kinds.
	Those are RTGs.
	Those are the solid-state gadgets that produce heat.
	Whereas we're talking a real full-up fission reactor, which would generate several megawatts as opposed to a few watts.
	And it would have all kinds of uses.
	You mean like a reactor here on Earth for power?
	Exactly.
	The reactors here on Earth are like tens of megawatts or a thousand megs.
	And the ones in space would be a few megawatts.
	It's basically the size of the reactor.
	The bigger the reactor, the more power.
	Sure.
	Space is a good place for one of those.
	Space is perfect!
	People have looked at me in the last couple of days when I'm talking about this and they say, are you out of your mind?
	We have to keep nuclear power out of space.
	Uh, you've forgotten that big bright thing up there called the Sun?
	I mean, the only place that nuclear power really belongs is in space.
	The only problem that I see is getting it from here to space, yes.
	And you can do that by the proper containerization.
	And you do a lot of testing on the ground, and you smash these things, you drop them out of airplanes, and you, you know, run locomotives into them, and you make sure that when they get smashed, they don't break.
	And then you assemble them in orbit.
	So that you only fire them up once they're up there.
	Okay.
	And what do you do with this power?
	I mean, why are we... There are all kinds of things we could do.
	We had, in NASA, 20, 30, 40 years ago, a nuclear power program.
	And it was basically brought to a halt.
	And you kind of look back and you say, why?
	Because to Mickey Mouse around the solar system with chemical rockets, we haven't really done anything new in space in the last 40 years, really.
	I mean, there are all kinds of neat, jazzy plans sitting on the shelves, and there were a lot of programs that were begun, a lot of R&D, a lot of money spent... Right, and I say again, Richard, what can we do with a nuclear power plant in space?
	What does that allow us to do?
	You can go anywhere.
	It gives you the solar system.
	It certainly gives you the moon and Mars.
	And so, a few days ago, when Bush made this announcement as part of the budget process, I'm looking at this, you know, nuclear electric thing, and I'm saying, This is very curious, because the NASA Center that I was invited to speak was the center that was secretly developing this previous NASA nuclear reactor for power in space.
	It was the same center that Congressman Wolpe, the Democrat from Michigan, found about a decade ago, was writing memos to its employees on how to lie, cheat, and steal on FOIA requests.
	How to lie to the Congress, how to lie to the public, how to lie to the press.
	And they came from the Director's Office of NASA, Lewis.
	So I kind of put these things together and I said, well, what would you need a nuclear reactor that you were lying to Congress about at a key NASA center that Hoagland is invited to talk about?
	The Mars stuff, based on Mars, Cydonia pyramids and all that?
	And the answer is?
	A secret manned mission to Mars.
	A secret manned mission to Mars.
	Developed in a way that the congressman wouldn't get a get wind of until maybe at the appropriate time.
	So, what happened was, when this all came out, that's like ten years ago, was when Dick Truly, remember astronaut Dick Truly?
	Yes.
	The guy who took over the range of NASA?
	I do.
	After Challenger?
	Yes.
	President Bush Senior fired him as soon as he announced, as Truly announced he was going to investigate Why, one of the directors of one of his centers was basically, you know, committing federal crimes by sending out memos telling his employees, NASA employees, how to cheat on these official requests for information.
	By the way, didn't you just have a news item on FOIA and how they're going to try to change it?
	Yeah, yeah I did.
	We're going backwards?
	I know, it's kind of, this is, you know, When you have a war, you inevitably walk over the line in trying to protect people, and they're walking over it right now.
	And that's why you have, you know, various branches of government and various competing groups, and you have a discussion.
	And hopefully, saner heads will prevail.
	Anyway, Truly was fired by Bush, and Dan Golden was brought in as the mass administrator, who had 30 years Get this, 30 years of experience at TRW before NASA, running black programs.
	We were saying back then, you know, this is not a very good idea because this is going to mean that that is going to be secret.
	Well, we had all kinds of weird stuff happening at NASA.
	We had missions failing.
	We had cameras that wouldn't work.
	We had people who couldn't add and count in the English or metric system.
	All that stuff, right?
	Right.
	We had pictures taken in secret that we had to force into the open vis-a-vis this program.
	Yes.
	Well, as of last May, when the final Face on Mars picture was taken by Mars Global Surveyor, the same propaganda went down.
	There was a huge full court press.
	It's all nonsense.
	It's all crazy.
	You've all been out of your mind.
	It's a trickle light and shadow.
	We're just a little hill.
	Go away.
	Don't bother us.
	And then in January, we get an administration, a NASA administrator saying, well, we're not going to make it number three on the priority list of this new mission we just put into orbit.
	What changed between May and December?
	Between May and January, actually.
	The answer is, the President appointed a new NASA Administrator.
	He fired Goldman.
	Yes, correct.
	So you're saying, what now, about Mars?
	I'm saying, if you read these dots, maybe Mars is in our sights.
	So today, as you know, I called you up this afternoon and I said, guess what?
	We have something pretty cool to talk about tonight.
	Right.
	Because not only is Bush going now for nuclear electric power in space, but he has now announced, as of the budget process yesterday, that they're going for nuclear reactors for propulsion, for rockets, which means you can take an expedition to Mars.
	Richard, if we had nuclear propulsion, and I understand it's possible, how much difference in speed and acceleration and ability to get to Mars, would
	there be?
	It's not the speed and acceleration, it's how much you can take with you.
	Okay.
	You can send a ship that's two to three times bigger.
	You can send a lot more payload, more bang for your buck.
	And the trip times are not really the problem because you can also do things like spin the
	whole thing for artificial gravity, you can have power for the coils, for radiation protection.
	Yeah, a nuclear engine could only be used fired up in space itself, right?
	You couldn't fire it up on Earth.
	Oh, no, no, no, no.
	What you do is you would assemble the system like astronauts are assembling the space station.
	What about getting back from Mars?
	Oh, you'd come back in a regular, you know, even Apollo or shuttle type thing.
	You'd rendezvous in orbit and your shuttle would bring you home.
	Okay.
	So the nuclear parts would always forever after stay in space.
	But if you were to, you know, use a cheap fuel, let's say hydrogen, for a nuclear rocket from this end, carry it up, you know, as water.
	Yes.
	When you get to Mars, of course, you can refuel because you've got Tons of stuff there.
	In fact, Mars Odyssey has now found, even in this preliminary first few days in the mapping orbit, it's finding there appears to be tons of water.
	Megatons of water.
	Right.
	All over Mars.
	Just under the dust.
	And from that comes fuel.
	And from that comes fuel.
	If you have the energy.
	Right.
	And the nuclear reactor gives you the energy to split it into oxygen and hydrogen.
	Alright, so let me see if I've got this straight.
	The administration ...is proceeding with a nuclear power generator in space.
	In space.
	And they're now adding as a priority a manned mission to Mars?
	Well, that's the implicit assumption that that's down the road.
	This is, you know, remember, we're now all thinking Middle Eastern, right?
	Well, why else would they want nuclear power in space?
	This is the proverbial camel's nose under the tent.
	The budget line item for this year, for 2003, which is not this year, it's next year, really, It's about $50 million.
	And as you said, that's nothing.
	Well, it's a lot to me, but maybe Art Bell thinks it's nothing.
	Well, in terms of going to Mars, it's sure nothing, Richard.
	It's a down payment.
	It's to get the program started, to get it funded.
	They're talking now about a billion dollars over five years to have a workable, off-the-shelf system where you can actually start going places.
	All right?
	And they're talking about massive reactors to fuel nuclear electric rocket propulsion.
	Why do you think it would be a secret mission?
	Why not a fully public mission?
	Well, I was saying what the situation was 10 years ago.
	What is going on now is that we don't yet have the carrot.
	In other words, in this current budget situation, you know, with the war and all that and other priorities, they can't come right out and say, I don't think.
	We're going to go to Mars with men and women.
	There has not been that key reason yet.
	That's where the Odyssey retargeting and prioritization of Cydonia comes in.
	Because the way this is ultimately going to work, I think, and I think my colleagues would agree, is that you find something incredibly important on Mars you've got to send men and women to go find out about.
	But of course, you wouldn't have any way to get there.
	Richard, that's the only way we're going to go to Mars.
	If they announce some major discovery that just fires up humanity, and by God, we've got to know about it, it's going to have to be something like signs of a prior civilization.
	Gosh, what an idea.
	I mean, something of that magnitude.
	Yeah, it's got to be that.
	And what I've said to the guys I work with, you know, people like Mike Baer and Ken Johnston and others, I've said, look, At some point, we've got to get pregnant.
	At some point, there has got to be a set of dots you can connect that all you have to do is kind of, in this extended metaphor, light the match, and the whole thing goes up.
	But you've got to have your pieces on the board.
	You've got to have the reason to go, and you have to have the means to go.
	And the means to go is nuclear.
	We have had a nuclear power program for NASA for almost 30 years.
	We had one.
	It was not far from you at a place in Nevada called Jackass Flat.
	Yeah, I know about it.
	What about treaties?
	Can we do it?
	Yeah, there are no treaties forbidding nuclear power for propulsion and peaceful scientific exploration.
	There are treaties forbidding the blowing up of little A-bombs in space.
	To which we... Well, I mean, this administration doesn't seem to mind treaties much.
	Look what they've done with the FBI treaty.
	So, if they wanted to, you know, reinvent Orion... Remember the Orion program?
	Well, Orion was basically to propel a mission to Mars using contained nuclear explosions.
	Not just a nuclear rocket, but a putt-putt-putt-putt-putt behind a pusher plate that would accelerate you, and like a million tons could go to and from Mars.
	Now, there are people that would obviously freak out at the idea of banging fission bombs in space to propel big spaceships.
	But again... How would that work out for the occupants of the spaceship?
	Well, you'd have a... Well, actually, when I first heard it, you know, I was astonished somebody even could conceive of this.
	But I actually have talked with Dr. Taylor, who invented the concept, and even Dyson.
	Yes.
	I worked with a guy at Raytheon many, many years ago when I was at the museum.
	In Springfield, Bob Ensman, who worked on Orion.
	How would that work out for the occupants?
	It basically, it's the same way that you have an internal combustion engine with explosions under the hood.
	It's all in the shocking system.
	It's all in the decompression system.
	I know, but when gas combusts, it doesn't produce radiation.
	No, no, no, no, no.
	But, what, I mean, the designs were you'd have this massive thick pusher plate where the bombs would go off behind it.
	Yes.
	And the plate would absorb the radiation.
	So, on the other side of the shield... It would all be okay?
	Well, that's the calculations.
	In fact, they actually did testing.
	I've seen film.
	Of little models using, um, um, you know, chemical explosives as opposed to nukes?
	Yes.
	Can the, the damping work?
	Well, I, I understand that it would work.
	Hold on, Richard.
	We've got to take a break here at the bottom of the hour.
	I understand it works.
	I'm, I'm asking about the radiation for the occupants of the spacecraft.
	Mars data head in our sights?
	Maybe.
	Nuclear power in space?
	Maybe.
	And by the way, we're going to find out this half hour all about what happened to Representative Kasumi.
	Kucinich.
	Kucinich, I believe it is.
	Kucinich, that's the one.
	Remember, he was gonna stop all those space beams and all kinds of things, including chemtrails listed, and then all of a sudden he changed his bill.
	We'll find out what happened there in a moment.
	By the way, in the next half hour, Dr. Edward Kenner And Dr. Tanner and his book is Why Things Bite Back,
	Technology and the Revenge of Unintended Consequences.
	This should be very interesting.
	All right, back to the putt-putt mobile for a moment.
	I understand Richard that it works, that you could take conventional explosives and prove
	I mean, explosion, boom, you go forward.
	I've seen the films.
	Makes sense.
	But again, my question is, the lead shield would be sufficient to protect the astronauts who would be riding up front from any radiation?
	Well, remember, this was a vehicle designed to take a million ton payload to Mars.
	The Apollo program, when we sent the Saturn V to the moon, the payload was 100 tons.
	So we're talking huge amounts.
	Now, what is the primary characteristic of radiation shielding?
	It's thick and usually lead.
	Exactly.
	Massive.
	Very, very massive.
	Which means with a ship of this design, you could carry one hell of a lot of shielding.
	So in fact, the calculations said that you'd get less exposure Radiation-wise, riding at the front of this thing, than you would riding in an airplane over Denver.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Well, that was the question.
	My problem was, you know, the idea of blowing up an A-bomb behind you and then being accelerated forward?
	Mm-hmm.
	Why wouldn't you be smashed flat?
	Uh-huh.
	So, because the pusher plate had a set of shock absorbers, and you had a cyclic shock mechanism to attenuate... Well, it wouldn't be a full A-bomb going off that way, right?
	Well, they were tiny tactical nukes, but still, You know, the concept of blowing up an atomic bomb.
	Are we talking about a kiloton?
	I'm trying to remember what the numbers were.
	They were small.
	They were definitely tactical.
	Lower than a kiloton.
	And you'd have to fire a lot of them.
	I mean, this was like one every second.
	And the ships carried a lot of them to do that.
	But what was astonishing to me was, A, the concept was invented.
	It was actually tested, except not for nuclear devices.
	It was called Orion, which I always thought, you know, was interesting.
	And now, of course, of late, I thought it was really interesting, given the involvement of Orion with the whole mythology and all that business.
	Anything named Orion would have your heart.
	And it was killed by the president, by President Kennedy, in favor of the Apollo program with cheap chemical rockets.
	Terrence in Chicago says the following, and I, you know, I tend to, I'm pretty cynical, but I agree with Terrence in Chicago.
	He says nuclear power for peace-based particle beam weapons, not Mars ship.
	Yeah, well then why put Cydonia at the top of the priority list for new pictures?
	Well, that's a very good question.
	I don't know.
	I can only imagine... See, I don't think it's an either-or.
	I think it's a both.
	That they do want a Mars mission, and they also want particle beam weapons, and they all, you know, space lasers.
	Well, but you know the military has basically been hand-in-glove with NASA from, you know, the get-go, at least the last ten years.
	And we know from this current administrator's statement, Sean O'Keefe, he wants a closer relationship with the DOD and NASA.
	When I was on your show years ago debating our good friend Ed Mitchell?
	Yes.
	Remember I unveiled a little tiny wrinkle in the NASA Space Act?
	That was an incredible interview.
	That made NASA a part of the DoD?
	Yes.
	So Terrence, you know, I'm not ignoring that aspect.
	But I think it's both.
	It's not either or.
	And the reason I think it's both is because... Well, it could be both.
	Well, why are they taking new pictures of Cydonia?
	Well, only because there might really be something there, and that's what it would take to get the public to back a man.
	Or do they already know, Art, there's something there, and this is their fig leaf to say, oh my God!
	I hope you're right, Richard.
	I hope you're right.
	Well, we're going to find out.
	Yeah, we're going to find out.
	Listen, Richard, um, Representative Kucinich...
	Representative Kucinich, who had, whatever...
	In Ohio, he was going to ban chemtrails and a whole list of other nasties in his bill.
	And then it suddenly, magically, incredibly, all of the things that we talked about disappeared from his bill.
	And a lot of people are curious what went on there.
	Well, I am trying to arrange through sources, some of which I can divulge tonight, The interview between you and the representative right on this air.
	I'm not holding my breath.
	Well, I wouldn't, I wouldn't.
	He already knows what I'm going to ask.
	Well, but I think that you would, we will find out.
	Let me just say that that door is open.
	It's not closed yet and we will find out and you will obviously know sooner than anybody else.
	Okay.
	Um, the, the, the information I have tonight that I can talk about is that the reason the bill was rewritten, is basically because folks like you and I went and talked about it a great deal and alerted the opposition to what was basically hidden in the definition section of the bill.
	What Kucinich was trying to do, as I understand it, was to basically put this bill through with all of these other items, you know, mind control and space beam weapons and chemtrails and all that.
	As part of what's called the definition section, which would have made it part of the law if the bill actually passed.
	And when the emails started flying back and forth on the internet about the existence of the bill, and people went to Thomas Register and actually read all of it, including the definition section, that's when the opposition raised their head and said, over our dead bodies.
	So what the Congressman has done is to rewrite the bill, focusing more narrowly on the conventional Well, that's what you can find out when you ask.
	Well, that's why he isn't going to answer.
	We will find out.
	Yes, we will.
	This is an ongoing process.
	If you have money you'd like to lay on it, I'd be glad to join you in a bad time.
	There is one thing that is incontrovertible.
	To put chemtrails in a space-based weapons program doesn't fly.
	Because the definition of space is 50 miles or above.
	And chemtrails are 40,000, 50,000 feet and below.
	So right there they had a real problem with definitions.
	The lawyers apparently started looking at this after he put it together.
	We're not happy with that.
	OK for chemtrails, but that doesn't work for the rest of it.
	No, and that's why I'm going to keep the door open and try to get him on your air and we'll see what happens.
	And nothing would stop the representative from writing some bill about chemtrails if he really was concerned about it.
	Well, this goes back now to this audience.
	And other Americans who give a damn.
	You know, I think the Congressman should receive a lot of mail on the subject.
	So do I. So do I. And we'll find out who has, you know, cojones and who doesn't.
	Yeah, I'm all for that.
	All right, everybody write Representative Kucinich.
	I don't suppose we have his address handy or anything.
	Not at my fingertips, but we can get it.
	All right, let's get it.
	And ask him to come on and answer some questions.
	Sounds democratic to me.
	Democratic.
	All right, so we will see, but, uh, and I can understand, I suppose, about chemtrails not being part of anything space-based or in space.
	That, I suppose, makes sense.
	All right, well, anyway, Richard, so you think we're going to the moon, or going to go to the moon, and... Well, Mars.
	The moon will definitely be part of the larger program, but Mars seems to be... A lot of people say you've got to go to the moon to go to Mars.
	No, there's no connection at all.
	Really?
	No.
	Why would you go to Mars?
	You mean to say a Mars mission?
	Well, because I was always told That a Mars base would be the ideal place from which to launch a... a Moon base would be the ideal place to launch a Mars mission.
	Why?
	You have to go down into a gravity field.
	You don't have anything there for propulsion.
	You're gonna have to climb back out of that gravity field to go to Mars?
	No, it's much easier to launch directly from the Earth.
	Much easier.
	You know, assembling it in orbit and then going.
	The moon is not even part of the equation.
	The only reason that... Remember when President Bush Sr.
	tried his moon-Mars initiative?
	Yes.
	The reason he did that was pure politics.
	Because instead of going to Mars direct, he was trying to create what some of the opponents of the concept would call the Battlestar Galactica approach, where you involve everything in the kitchen sink, and NASA wound up costing it out at half a trillion dollars.
	Or if you go to Mars direct, as Zubrin keeps talking about, you can go for a few billion.
	Let's say under what it cost to do Apollo, which was $20 billion back then, maybe $40 billion in 2002 dollars.
	So, no, it's much cheaper and more efficient to go to Mars directly.
	Okay.
	And you think using what kind of propulsion?
	Well, the current nuclear Systems Initiative, which is what NASA is calling this new nuclear program, is envisioning nuclear electric, which means you have a big reactor, which basically generates electricity.
	Just like in a submarine, so far.
	Yeah, like in a submarine, which then is used to propel ions out the back end in an ion engine, or a cluster of ion engines, and you go forward.
	And it has much higher efficiency, it has much higher But it's got a long build-up time, doesn't it?
	Well, it takes you a while to get up to speed, but once you're going, you're going like a bat out of hell.
	Right, okay, so... There's a total payload wait.
	Yeah, but then you've got a break on the other end, so... You turn yourself around halfway and slow down.
	So how long would it take under those conditions to get from here to there?
	Not much more than current chemical trip times, which is less than a year, but you can take a lot more payload.
	And, if you have nuclear power, You also have a way to solve the radiation problem.
	Because the primary problem in space is not, you know, galactic cosmic rays.
	Right.
	It's protons from the sun.
	Right.
	It's nuclear particles from an energetic sun.
	Right.
	And as you know, the sun is doing weird things.
	Oh, I know.
	It's not settling down.
	Right.
	And for the next decade, it's probably going to be a problem in going anywhere in deep space.
	Right.
	If you have a lot of power to burn, one of the things you can do is put out big coils around your ship.
	And you simply put current through them.
	And you create a little miniature terrestrial magnetic field, like a magnetic bubble.
	And the protons go boing!
	And they bounce or are deflected off your magnetic field around your ship.
	So it isn't massive shielding.
	It's more elegant, but it requires power.
	A cone of protection.
	It's more like a bubble.
	A bubble.
	Or a torus, you know, if you can think of...
	When magnetic fields kind of flow between wires.
	So you actually, you could, uh, if there were a flare in the sun, you could actually protect the astronauts from, uh, dying.
	Oh, yeah.
	It's kind of like raised shields, you know, Mr. Scott.
	That's really neat.
	I had never heard that.
	I had no idea such a concept existed.
	No, never.
	Oh, yeah.
	And all it requires is power.
	Now you can't do it with solar power because you have to have solar collectors that are You know, miles across.
	Right.
	Got you.
	A lot of power.
	Nuclear power is concentrated power.
	Now, obviously, you and I have had this conversation in the absence of the H-word.
	Hyperdimensional physics?
	Yes.
	Because the real way to do all this, boys and girls, is to, you know, scrap all this primitive technology, nukes included, and go directly to hyperdimensional generators.
	The kind of stuff that we know is being worked on in some black budget tonight somewhere in this government.
	How do we know that?
	Because of the thing that floated over you in Nevada.
	Well, maybe.
	Depending on what it was that floated over me.
	Oh, do you think it was alien?
	I think it was ours.
	Richard, I don't know.
	And I wouldn't be surprised if they floated right over you because they knew you were down there.
	It's possible.
	It was kind of cruel.
	And there's lots of other people who've seen them.
	Well, of course there was, but these guys have a sick sense of humor.
	So, that's the way to go, ultimately, but unless we can, you know, get on the gear bandwagon and force disclosure of this kind of technology, we're stuck with primitive stuff, like nukes.
	And that's where Bush is headed, and I think the objective is Mars.
	But nukes will get us to Mars.
	Oh, yes.
	Oh, yes, and get us there safely and without environmental problems and all that.
	I mean, there'll be people kicking and screaming about, oh, you're putting nuclear stuff in space.
	Well, that's where it belongs, everybody.
	The key problem, as you pointed out earlier, is getting it there.
	And there are ways to do that.
	I mean, this society, this technology, does all kinds of other things that are important.
	And you balance risk and benefit.
	Well, to me, the benefit to this planet, this civilization, of confirming what's on Mars, who live there, what they left for us, the libraries, the technology, the secrets, the biology, the understanding of the human condition, Perspective on a galactic encyclopedia, if something like that exists.
	I mean, there is no way to balance that against the minuscule risk involved in getting there, even the way Bush is intending to do it.
	Richard, about Mars.
	How much chance is there you're wrong?
	All the way around, that there was not a civilization there, ever.
	That there were never living Martians.
	That nobody ever intentionally built Martian or not.
	Uh, a face and other structures on Mars that you're just all wrong.
	That Mars is a dead, never has been occupied planet.
	Well, you know, if it was only me, I would have to really kind of think about that and maybe not even give you an answer tonight, you know, on the next show or something.
	But given that in the last 10 years, an enormous group of anomalists, people out there who
	know who they are, you know, who are kind of part of this far-flung family of people
	looking at all these images and asking hard questions of NASA, have come to the same independent
	conclusions, including my old friend Arthur Clarke.
	Remember, Arthur, before this mission was launched, kept saying, there's life on Mars.
	That's right.
	And the day they launched this mission, he sent that email to the manager at Lockheed
	Martin saying, go find the artifacts.
	Wink, wink, wink.
	So no, my certainty on that there is something waiting for us that is mind-blowing, which
	of course is at the core of the film that I'm writing, is probably 99.99%.
	How's the film going?
	The film is going exquisitely well.
	Exquisitely.
	You're in the middle of writing like mad, right?
	We're writing, well, we're basically rewriting.
	You know, I remember we had all the little things I wanted all those years and it just didn't quite click and now it's clicked and we've got all the neat things.
	And, of course, there's also, you know, the current edition of Monuments of Mars, the 2001 edition.
	Which is now out there, and I don't want to leave the air tonight before reminding people that they want a copy of the book, signed by yours truly, to kind of get some perspective on this whole problem before the you-know-what hits the rotating receptacle.
	They can get it for an 800 number, and the folks over there are so nice that if people will call up and order the tapes, You know, my briefings at NASA Lewis, my briefings at the UN.
	Yes.
	They will throw the 2001 edition of Monuments in, signed by me, for free!
	Wow.
	For free!
	Okay.
	Americans love that.
	For free.
	They do.
	So here's the 800 number.
	Write this down.
	1-800-350-4639.
	1-800-350-4639 That's 1-800-350-4639
	And I want to thank everybody who, by the way, has sent all those faxes
	in to be a part of this film thing at RKO.
	Aren't the most extraordinary Americans and others have responded.
	We have got resumes, we have got offers for help, people who will, you know, do anything to be part of this, people who have stunning credentials, people who have expertise, people who are just, it's just a joy to read these.
	If you had to guess, Richard, about when this movie might appear on the silver screen, What would you guess?
	The normal process for something of this magnitude to do it right is at least a couple years.
	So I would say around the end of 2004.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Which is just about the time that a number of things are going to hit that rotating thing I just talked about.
	Well, we should be really warming up to a Mars mission by then, right?
	Exactly.
	As we're talking heavily about it, maybe even beginning.
	If Odyssey is going to do what I think they're planning to do with it, you've got to provide the carrot.
	You have to excite the body politic.
	There's got to be a response to a stimulus.
	And the need of stimulus is some kind of anomalous My God, there's something weird down there.
	That's right.
	We have to go find out what it is.
	Well, maybe that's exactly what we're going to get.
	And one can only imagine they've got something like that in mind, making Sedonia such a high priority when it just simply wasn't before.
	Nope.
	And the only change has been the president appointing a new NASA administrator who basically, I think, is on the beam.
	On the target, on the timeline.
	Richard, thank you.
	Have a good night, my friend.
	You too.
	Onward and upward, in every sense of the word.
	To Mars we go, huh?
	I certainly hope so.
	Coming up next, why things bite back.
	Technology wants the revenge of unintended consequences.
	We've all lived with those.
	All our life, right?
	Unintended consequences?
	Stay right there.
	It certainly is.
	There's something I've noticed over the years to be an absolute truth, and it may or may not have to do with what my guest is going to talk about tonight, but I thought I'd relate it to you anyway.
	I don't know how many of you are technological nuts the way I am, but you know, I'm radio all the way.
	I mean, we own a radio station now.
	I've got ham radio, which has been wrapped around me all my life.
	Every form of technology you can imagine.
	I'm the baby.
	I'm the guinea pig.
	I'll try it first, whatever it is, as you well know.
	And having so much technology around me, computers everywhere, I mean everywhere, I've really learned this lesson.
	I have learned that technology does bite back.
	And inevitably for me, it always bites back on Friday night or Saturday morning.
	Now, this would be a time when any tech support is not available, when parts are not available, and of course then comes Sunday when even the local radio shack is not open, in our case here, and it's impossible to get parts.
	So in other words, not only does technology bite back, but it seems to know when to bite back, which has always bothered me a lot.
	I mean, there's more truth in this than I could ever impart to you.
	I have had so many things fail going into the weekend when you cannot possibly do anything about it, that I should have kept a list.
	Hundreds of things, actually.
	So, Dr. Chenner has indeed written, When Things Bite Back.
	Technology and the Revenge of Unintended Consequences.
	I expect it's deeper than what I just related to you, but we'll see.
	Dr. Tenner received the A.B.
	from Princeton, the Ph.D.
	from the University of Chicago, as a science editor at Princeton University Press.
	He published works of Richard Feynman and Primo Levi, among others.
	As an independent writer since 91, he's received fellowships of the Guggenheim Foundation and the Woodrow Wilson Center for Scholars has been a visiting scholar at Rutgers and the Institute for Advanced Study and a contributor to the New York Times, U.S.
	News, Wilson Quarterly, and other publications.
	He now has a visiting position at the Princeton English Department.
	Why Things Bite Back has been translated into German, Japanese, Portuguese, Italian, and Chinese.
	Twice, once in Taiwan and once in Shanghai.
	Now, if things universally bite back, and apparently they do, or there would not be all these translations, then it must be some sort of universal law.
	Anyway, coming up in a moment, Dr. Edward Tenor.
	Well, Dr. Tenor, welcome to the program.
	Thank you very much.
	Happy to have you.
	It's great to have you here.
	Did you hear what I said just before the commercials, before introducing you about me and electronics?
	I don't know if that falls under the category of what you've been talking about or not, but I have noticed that failures occur at the absolute most inappropriate Yes, absolutely.
	In fact, my computer failed while I was writing the book.
	when fixing whatever has gone wrong becomes totally impossible?
	Yes, absolutely. In fact, my computer failed while I was writing the book.
	That's it, all right.
	It failed on an Easter Sunday.
	Yes, a holiday would be good, yes.
	There you are.
	Now, have you actually discerned a reason?
	First of all, what this effect itself is and a reason for it.
	The reason I suggested in the book is that the technology that we have and that we've had since the mid-19th century is different from all other technology in human history.
	Not that it's necessarily more sophisticated, because some of the old technology could be extremely sophisticated.
	I saw, for example, in a museum very recently some cloth that was woven out of cotton by the Incas, and it was finer cloth than has ever been made since.
	Nobody knows how to make cloth that fine, so people in the past have been, technologically, very sophisticated.
	Our technology is different because it consists of systems.
	And whenever you have a system with lots of parts interacting, you introduce possibilities of things going wrong that are almost impossible to diagnose.
	Well, again, though, what is this effect?
	I mean, what is it?
	Why wouldn't the odds of failure at any given moment be as great at any given moment as another?
	Why, when you either need them most, Or can at least be able to diagnose and fix them, do they fail?
	There has to be something going on here that goes beyond what we understand, conventionally.
	It is a mystery, and I don't pretend to have the answer to it, but I have experienced it.
	I think we all have.
	You write in your book that safety programs frequently promote new kinds of accidents.
	Yes, it's a feature of safety technology that people will change their behavior as a result
	of having it.
	In one case, early in the century, a case that was reported by Franz Kafka, no less,
	when he was an insurance inspector, there was a series of accidents in the sawmills
	of Bohemia and the present-day Czech Republic.
	And the reason was that the sawmill owners had installed guards in the sawmills.
	That is physical protection.
	We have a very bad connection.
	I'm sorry.
	Can you hear me better now?
	Yes, a little better.
	Okay, I'm sorry.
	Well, that's another case.
	Just when we are trying to have this interview, the telephone system Uh, has decided to illustrate the very point we're talking about.
	You know, we've tried to make several connections here without, uh, a great deal of luck.
	All right, anyway, so, uh, Sawmillia, I can imagine, uh, there would be a place where you would make lots of safety regulations unless your employees cut off limbs.
	And what happened was that the, the chips, uh, would accumulate in the, under this protective hood, and the workers would think that the, blade had been turned off but actually it had just been
	stopped by the chip so there were terrible injuries that happened when they were trying
	to clean out these protective hoods over the blades.
	And there are also many cases, not in every case, but in many cases when people start
	taking greater risks when they have a safety system.
	For instance, anti-lock brakes.
	In just about every country where this has been studied, anti-lock brakes have resulted in higher accident rates among the drivers who've had them.
	Why?
	The reason is that many drivers with these go faster In slippery conditions.
	Because they're counting on the anti-lock brakes to save them.
	But that really wouldn't be a reason to squash a technological improvement, would it?
	Just because people are stupid.
	Well, no.
	No, I don't think that we should squash it at all.
	I think they're an excellent idea and I'm going to get my next car with that equipment.
	However, what's important is for people to keep in mind that they have to understand
	the limits of whatever technology they're working with.
	The central thing that you write about is unintended consequences, the revenge.
	You call it revenge.
	That's a very strong word, the revenge of unintended consequences.
	That almost implies some sort of intellectual decision on the part of whatever it is, whatever
	piece of technology you're trying to manipulate to get you.
	I'm not suggesting that it actually has a will like that, only that it often seems as though it does.
	I see.
	What is Franz Kafka's connection, and I don't know Franz Kafka at all, his connection to technological tragedies?
	Well, I just mentioned him because he...
	His novels really are not about technology, but he was somebody who certainly, as a novelist, had a great sense of the dark side of life.
	People often talk about the Kafkaesque, being trapped in the jaws of the state.
	It really fascinated me to see that he had an earlier career as an insurance inspector.
	This is a story that I have never heard before.
	He went to the mills and factories and other establishments that his company was insuring
	and he was, of course, in their financial interest, quite apart from any humanitarian
	considerations to be sure that there were no unnecessary risks.
	He looked at problems like that.
	Okay, I don't understand how his looking at it promoted technological tragedy.
	You said connection?
	No, he didn't promote it.
	All I'm saying is that he identified it.
	I see.
	He wrote about it in his report.
	I see.
	And they were published only recently.
	Okay.
	Why did Rancho Sadevay, now best known as the last home of the Heaven's Gate Movement, and I remember them well, Fail in its original existence as a eucalyptus farm for railroad ties?
	Yes, that is how it was founded.
	There was a movement around the turn of the century to grow eucalyptus for the railroads.
	And the reason was that eucalyptus is an extremely fast growing tree.
	And it seemed to be a great material for railroad ties, which at that time, since the railroads were still expanding, was a critical resource.
	I don't know how many million trees were killed to build the railroads.
	We think of them as environmentally benign, but in their time they were very widely criticized for their environmental effects.
	And the eucalyptus wood was thought to be the wood of the future.
	But it turns out that there was a very strange thing about eucalyptus wood, which is that in its native Australian habitat, the eucalyptus tree is regulated in its growth by insects and other of organisms that live off the young tree and it grows more slowly there than it grows in North America where it doesn't have these critters around and you would think that that would make it even better you could grow more trees faster but it doesn't work that way the reason is that the
	The grain of the eucalyptus tree is almost optimized for the rate of growth in Australia.
	When you plant it where you don't have those insects, it grows too fast, and so the grain becomes very, very difficult to work.
	You can't really saw it very well.
	It is not dimensionally stable.
	Uh, it really won't last as a railroad tie, and so they had to do something else there, and they decided to develop it residentially.
	Residentially?
	Yes, as a residential resort, actually, with permanent homes there.
	So it just wouldn't grow there?
	It would grow there, but they couldn't use the trees.
	They couldn't use them as timber.
	I see.
	There are lots of eucalyptus trees in the United States, especially in California, and they are beautiful trees, but they have two problems.
	The first is, as timber, their structure is really strange.
	This was discovered only in In 1949, when an Australian forester published a monograph about the subject.
	That's the first problem.
	The second problem, which has been discovered in the Berkeley and Oakland area a number of times, is that eucalyptus trees propagate by burning.
	Eucalyptus trees love fire.
	They can actually spread their seeds in their native habitat Only in a fire, where they can spread them best in a fire.
	And so, if you have a lot of eucalyptus trees, and you are not very careful about trimming them and eliminating underbrush, you have combustible materials for terrible fires.
	Doctor, we're having terrible phone problems here.
	I'm just losing you and losing you.
	I'm sorry.
	There is one other question.
	I'd really be curious.
	You have down here that football helmets seem to be promoting injuries more than they are protecting the football players.
	I watch a very great deal of football.
	It seems to me without football helmets that there would be all kinds of crushed skulls out there.
	There are anyway, but I mean, they really do protect football players.
	How is it you think that this works the other way around?
	If players played the way they do wearing helmets, but didn't wear helmets, you're absolutely right.
	The game would be fatal in many, many cases.
	Then how do football helmets promote injuries?
	They promote injuries They promote injuries really for two reasons.
	The first is that in a game where the players have a lot of protection, you have a different style of play from one where there's minimal protection.
	For instance, rugby players don't wear helmets, obviously, and rugby is a terribly rough game.
	But it has a lower rate of injury.
	All right.
	Doctor, hold on just a moment.
	We're going to have to try and do something about this telephone connection.
	So we'll try and do that here at the half hour mark.
	I'm Art Bell.
	My guest is Dr. Edward Tenner.
	We'll be right back.
	Everybody, we're going to open lines.
	Dr. Tenner has become a victim of his own theory.
	The law of unintended consequences.
	His phone line was fading to virtually zero.
	And so that's exactly the kind of thing that I mean.
	And I mean exactly the kind of thing that I think we would have talked about had we had the chance, if the unintended consequences had not squashed us.
	It's inevitable.
	It's constant.
	And I...
	I, too, hesitate to suggest that there's any intelligence behind specifically when and how things fail.
	But if I didn't know better, I'd swear there was.
	Anyway, I've got a number of things here for you, and we'll get to them in just a moment.
	Stay right where you are.
	Alright.
	Let's, uh...
	Let's take a look at a couple of items here.
	The number one item that interests me beyond all reason is time travel, as you know.
	And we're going to try to get Scott Corrales, who apparently translated the following press release that you're about to hear that just rivets me.
	Listen to this.
	Moscow from ANSA.
	In third millennium Russia, Now fully converted to capitalism and market economy, there are, as we know, still those who would like to return to the old USSR.
	A time machine, that's right, a time machine, completely made in Russia, has been built for these irrepressible nostalgics.
	According to the device's inventor, its existence is a reality.
	According to a Russian engineer, who would be called Vadim Shcherbanov, the machine popularized in H.G.
	Wells' novel, far from being a literary creation, is in fact a scientific endeavor of its own, although still in its infancy.
	In fact, notes Shcherbanov, Those who attempt to return to the past to keep certain historical events from occurring, for example, the collapse of the Soviet Union, would fail in the attempt and would run the risk of not being able to return to the future.
	Cherbinov's machine, at least according to the photos published in newspapers since its creator refuses to show it to any other media, Is a spherical, metallic capsule, measuring two meters in diameter, very similar to astronaut Yuri Gagarin's first Vostok spacecraft.
	Within it, explains the inventor, is a meter wide cabin that houses the passenger, strong rotating electromagnetic fields generated in the capsule, decrease or increase the flow of time, ...whose alteration is recorded by high-precision timepieces.
	Shcherbanov, who worked in the Soviet Space Agency's planning office and subsequently founded the Cosmoplosk Society, claims having conducted initial tests in a Russian city, the former Stalingrad, having reached a distance in time of some scant minutes for the moment.
	That's alright.
	Minutes is a long time.
	If you can really move in time, even just for minutes, then you do indeed have a time machine.
	For the time being, above all, for security reasons, the experiments were performed with animals, and were extremely brief, in order to avoid any health hazards, and to keep the machine from becoming lost.
	Since it is very expensive, explained the Russian scientist, however, This time-lapse shall be gradually increased in the future, with the aim of achieving the mission of exiting our time for a few days, or a month at most, and exclusively toward the past.
	This would enable the capsule's recovery.
	The first, uh... Fro-Naut, that's what they're gonna call him, has already been chosen, a young computer programmer, Ivan Konov, who according to Chervonoff, is in fine physiological condition, which gives him the necessary ability to describe even the vision of the world's end, should he see it.
	Ooh!
	According to the Russian engineer, no chrononaut would be able to modify historical fact.
	Even though he interfered with events, which apparently could occur, This event would have weight only when verified, having no consequence whatsoever to our present, and in any event, any such effort would maroon him in a parallel universe from which he could never return.
	So, folks, it looks to me like the Russians are claiming they have invented a time machine, and all I can tell you is I will attempt to follow up on this story.
	I will attempt to get hold of the man who, Scott Gorillaz, who apparently translated this story so that we could get it to you, and we'll try and find out more about it, but there you have it.
	Wouldn't that be something if the Russians really have done it?
	And with rotating magnetic fields, no less.
	I always had a feeling that would be the answer.
	All right, what we're going to do, I've got several other stories that I want to get to you here.
	Well, here's an interesting one.
	Before I go to the phones, imagine that our radio antennas Picked up a signal from aliens in a galaxy far away.
	What would we want to say back to them?
	Would we want to make them like us?
	Would we want to be honest about our human failings?
	We're woefully unprepared to reply to a message from the stars, according to a psychologist, Douglas Macaulay, whose job is to think about just that.
	What should we say to aliens?
	That would reflect something universal about all six billion of us on Earth, and I wonder how you would answer that question.
	In other words, I don't know, when you meet somebody, and I'm talking now about an individual, earthly basis, when you meet somebody, you put your best foot forward.
	Which, many times, means that you tell little white lies or even grey lies about yourself, one way or the other, or you try and talk yourself up a little bit, right?
	You put your best foot forward.
	Now, if we were talking to an alien race, had the opportunity to respond to a radio or light signal, as you know, uh, SETI is off looking at light here shortly.
	They think they may make contact.
	If we were to make contact, what indeed would we say back to an alien race?
	What would we say?
	Would we put our best foot forward?
	Would we not tell the aliens about the wars we've had?
	About nuclear power?
	About putting nuclear weapons into space?
	Would we not tell them about our failings socially?
	Would we advertise ourselves as a highly advanced society?
	Fully prepared and peaceful, and oh yes, peaceful, no wars, not down here folks!
	Or would we tell them the unvarnished truth?
	This is kind of an interesting question, isn't it?
	Wildcard line, you're on the air.
	Open lines all the way.
	Go ahead.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes, you're on the air, sir.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Rick in San Diego.
	Yes, Rick.
	Two things.
	One is on technology.
	Some people have a natural gift.
	I am, like you, into AM radio and computers.
	You know, the highly technical.
	And just about anything and everything I use works beautifully.
	And if somebody should come along that has a problem, all I need to do but lay hands upon it and it works for me just fine.
	What do you mean by lay hands on it?
	You mean like put your hands on a cabinet?
	Yeah, like for... You mean now you don't get inside replacing diodes and transistors and resistors.
	You lay hands on the cabinet and cure it.
	And basically cure it.
	It works beautifully most of the time.
	And occasionally, I do have to go in and replace something.
	But for the most part, computers respond to me as if, you know, I could talk to them.
	Like you were a doctor with a good bedside manner.
	Exactly.
	And the other thing is, on aliens, we would need a person who knows political doublespeak.
	And, you know, not necessarily give away the farm, but, you know... Well, again, sir, the question is, would we reveal all about ourselves?
	You know, our downside.
	We do have a downside.
	After all, you know, we have wars and we have... And that's why we would have to give them a little bit of doublespeak, but definitely put our best foot forward.
	All right.
	I appreciate the call.
	Thank you very much.
	But you know, like a blind date gone bad, perhaps if we gave them too rosy a picture, they would arrive, imagining all of these wonderful things, and when they got here, what would they see?
	They'd see us chasing some guy around a bunch of caves in Afghanistan.
	They'd see bombs being blown up in Israel.
	They would see Israel retaliating against the Palestinians.
	They would see India threatening Pakistan.
	Pakistan threatening India with nuclear weapons.
	And they, you know, as you proceed around the world, looking at everything that's going on, they might find great disappointment.
	So having put our best foot forward may indeed, instead of moving it forward, move it directly into our jaws.
	And they might decide to cleanse the entire planet.
	West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Good morning.
	Oh, you're kidding me.
	I don't kid, sir.
	Where are you?
	Oh, Lord have mercy.
	Uh, well, yes, there you are.
	All right.
	All right.
	Where are you?
	Mark and Napa, your old buddy, from a little while ago before you took a little time off.
	Yes, Mark.
	What's on your mind?
	Well, I think K9 at 1115 AM ought to play Apache by the one, the only, and the original.
	You know who I'm talking about?
	I remember the song, Apache.
	Yeah, it kept me alive.
	Anything else, sir?
	Well, just, you know, besides God Bless America and all that kind of stuff, I mean, you know, I'm pretty tuned, Art.
	I'm getting ready to shut eye, you know?
	No, I don't... You know, 1320 bi-weekly, you know?
	I have no idea what you're talking about, sir.
	Oh, well, it's Jordan Ingman and his guitar.
	Okay, have a good morning.
	Thank you for the request.
	First time going online, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey, Art, this is Mike from Hedlock, North Carolina.
	Hello, Mike.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	Oh, my bad.
	I didn't actually expect to get through.
	Well, I guess you should always expect to get through when you dial.
	My bad.
	Um, this is what I got, Art.
	The, uh, the guy that was calling with the, uh, technology is trying to kill you theory, No, no, no.
	Not that it's trying to kill you.
	Well, I know that's not what he said, but... Although that does occur.
	Technology fails at the most inopportune moments, almost as though it's getting revenge on you.
	Right.
	And the thing you were talking about with football and rugby?
	Yes.
	The helmets actually increasing the chance of injury?
	Yes.
	The same thing has happened with bicycle helmets.
	As bicycle helmets, you know, their use and the proliferation of them throughout our society increases.
	You know, now we ride less bikes than we did in 1982 or whenever.
	You still see, you know, pedal bike fatalities rising for some god-unknown reason.
	And it's the exact thing that he was trying to describe.
	It's that, you know, as you as you protect yourself more, you let your guard down.
	Yeah, but I know, I know, but that's not necessarily an argument to Dismantle or disallow the technology?
	Or is it?
	I mean, maybe it is.
	What do I know?
	I don't think it is to disallow it or dismantle it.
	But I think the only thing that it would be is a reason not to mandate it.
	So, helmets should not be mandated?
	I... No, I don't think... For example, for people on motorcycles.
	They argue and they... Of course, they hate it.
	They absolutely hate it.
	Uh, but you would think that it would save a lot of cracked open heads.
	Heads are nothing more than, uh, they're probably easier to crack open than a, a coconut.
	I, I've broken my head hard, and I've rode a lot of motorcycles, and I know that it's, that I've gotten a lot more wrecks wearing my helmet than I have not.
	Because I, I'm invincible, you know?
	Uh, you're invincible.
	Well, if you think you're invincible, then you're crazy as a loon, because there's more than your head at risk, of course.
	I didn't exactly understand where the argument was going.
	I mean, I do understand that if we feel better about something and safer, then we're liable to take more of a chance.
	That part I guess I understand, but I don't think it in any way argues against that additional protection that's afforded.
	Seatbelts, for example.
	People went crazy over seatbelts.
	Remember that?
	Well, they do save lives.
	Do you think people go faster in cars because they've got seatbelts on, or because they've got some big balloon that will go off in an accident, supposedly cushioning them from injury?
	I don't know.
	Something to consider.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey, Art, allow me to extinguish my radio.
	Yes, thank you.
	Okay, Tony, I'm in a truck heading northbound on I-5 over the grapevine.
	Yes, sir.
	Hey, you know, you were talking about the technology and strange people with technology.
	Um, I used to have a Pinto, which I'm thoroughly convinced was haunted for all the trouble it gave me.
	A haunted Pinto?
	Well, it was a 72 hatchback.
	Really ugly thing.
	And I had things, like one time it got struck by lightning, and everything in it went dead.
	I mean, headlights, everything.
	And I pulled to the side.
	I thought the whole system was fried out.
	Turned the key off, counted about 50.
	I figured, well, I'll try it one more time.
	I started it up and ran crying after that.
	Were you in the Pinto when it was hit?
	Yes, I was.
	What's that like?
	Uh, I didn't feel a thing.
	I just, uh, it was just an explosion of bright, bright, bright, bright light.
	I had a 102-inch steel CB antenna on the back of it, and I'm sure that was what connected me up.
	Yes, how did your CB function?
	Perfectly!
	After the system, everything shut down.
	No CB, no headlights, no nothing.
	I turned the key off, turned all the power off, and I'm sitting there going, oh my god, what am I going to do now?
	Fired right back up about five minutes later.
	That is amazing.
	But the spooky thing was I, one time I could not, when I put my foot on the clutch, nothing happened.
	It would not disengage.
	I couldn't get it in or out of gear, etc.
	And I have a friend of mine who's one of those spooky people that can look at stuff that he's never seen before.
	Right.
	And he can pretty well take it apart, put it back together, and it'll work perfectly.
	Right.
	Computers, fax machines, airplanes... Maybe it was like that guy I called a little while ago who could literally lay his hands on stuff, especially computers, and just cause it to work.
	Well, that's how this guy is.
	He told me, you know, start the car in first gear, and then just bring it over here, drive it, you know, like, second gear across town.
	And we'll take a look at it.
	So I did.
	And I tried it before I went up to the house.
	It was my friend's dad.
	And he says, well, did you try adjusting it?
	Yes.
	Did you try this?
	Yes.
	Well, we went through and he said, get in the car, put your foot on the clutch, start it up.
	And it worked again.
	I mean, I had been tinkering with it for a day and a half.
	He looked at it.
	He never even touched it.
	You looked at it for about 30 seconds and it never gave me another problem, and I had that car for about 3 years after that.
	Well, um, listen, thank you so very much for your call.
	Maybe... Maybe there are people like that.
	Now, I'm not one of them.
	I cannot lay hands upon something and cause it to begin to work.
	In fact, quite almost to the opposite, laying hands on it is sort of dangerous.
	Uh, usually preceded by a little shuffle across the spot, uh, you know, the room and then a slight spark as you touch whatever it is, followed by whatever it is, memory locking up totally.
	In other words, a computer crash of a sort, and then total non-functional, totally non-functional until you do a reset.
	And even then you have sometimes killed it altogether.
	So there really may be, you know, there are people who claim they can lay on hands and cure Physical ailments around the world.
	And I suppose there are people who have the same magic touch with things electronic.
	And the Midas touch, we might call it.
	And then things, other people that on the other hand have the exact opposite.
	They bring disaster to whatever they get near.
	And I've had a lot of calls from people like that.
	People say, I touched somebody's computer.
	It's on.
	Any kind of electronics, I get near it.
	Kaput!
	Bang!
	They're gone!
	I cannot have people in my life like that.
	I can hear about them on the phone at a distance, but I can't have them anywhere near any of my stuff.
	I'm Art Bell, and I'll be right back.
	Dr. Chen are taken away by unintended consequences.
	Hence, we're in open lines, which is just fine.
	I've got an awful lot of information.
	Here's a story about a defendant who's claiming that his clone Shot a youth, a 15-year-old youth.
	He didn't do it, he says.
	His clone did it.
	And he claims that he was cloned when he was in the military.
	I'm serious.
	I'll have more in a moment.
	From Ottawa, Ohio, in another day of bizarre testimony, a Putman County Sheriff's deputy
	recounted how Marvin Martin II told him it was his clone, not him, who killed 15-year-old
	Charles Breckler.
	Thank you.
	Now, listen to this.
	Deputy Harry Berger told the court he met with Mr. Martin and his parents several times between May 9th When Young Brecker was shot to death and August 2nd when Martin was arrested, deputies said Mr. Martin claimed that he had been cloned three times when he was in the Army, and that he and the clones were part of a death squad.
	Mr. Martin, 32 years of age now, of Continental, went on trial last week in Putnam County Common Pleas Court on charges of aggravated murder and aggravating menacing stemming from a December 2000 incident which he allegedly fired a shot at Linda Reckler, the victim's mother, outside her home.
	He faces the death penalty if convicted of aggravated murder and he is claiming that our military, the U.S.
	government, when he was in service, cloned him and that there are two others of him out there And that one of them obviously did this because he didn't.
	Now, I have said for a very long time that, uh, I think we have already cloned.
	I think it's kind of a duh.
	Somebody somewhere has cloned.
	Experimentally, the military private, uh, uh, lab somewhere working with a black budget, I don't know, but I'm certain... You know, in the death squad thing.
	Would our military be interested in cloning for the purpose of creating the perfect universal soldier that could do wet work very proficiently?
	Sure they would.
	You know our military.
	Any military.
	Now was that done in this particular case?
	Who knows?
	But that is his defense.
	That is his claim.
	That one of the clones the U.S.
	military created did this murder.
	He didn't.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	How you doing?
	I'm doing.
	That's good.
	Um, I called about the magic of, you know, healing people by laying on of hands.
	Oh.
	Healing machines by laying on of hands.
	Oh yes, yes, yes.
	Um, I was thinking about that and it seems that if you're gonna send a healing sort of energy into someone, They have to receive, they have to be a receiver.
	You know, there has to be a receiver for a sender.
	And if a person that is being healed believes that they can be healed and that they have that healing wavelength or frequency within them and it can connect with the other person, then it seems like it could work.
	I can't, I don't know about the machine thing, but I do have a friend who seems to make machines work when He walks into a room.
	Now that's a totally different thing, because here we're talking about an inanimate object.
	Machines, things with gears, things with electronics.
	But it's electrical, it's like... And surely it cannot be sitting there saying to itself, cure me, I know you can do it, lay on hands, do it, do it.
	Well, I thought about that though.
	See, like, if you're a person that's sending healing energy to a person, and they don't believe that it will work, then their hang-up might cause it to not work.
	Whereas a machine is not reluctant.
	A machine doesn't have that conditioning that tells you that that kind of a thing can't happen.
	It doesn't have hang-ups, that's true.
	I hope.
	But it also is like, you know, we're made up basically of electrical impulses that are being translated by...
	Our brains and radio is also frequency wavelength.
	Yes, it is.
	And if that's what we are, that's what they are.
	It seems like it could work with machines.
	Well, it does seem like it may be so because there is the opposite.
	There are these people who are... I don't know.
	Anytime they get close to anything electrical or anything else, it just fizzes.
	I have the opposite effect.
	The radio station will go out if I walk into the room.
	Really?
	Whereas my housemate, when he walks into a room, the stuff will work.
	Well, maybe the two of you are a balancing mechanism.
	It's possible.
	You break it, he fixes it.
	Exactly.
	Can I make a quick comment about your clones?
	Sure.
	Not my clones.
	Not your clones, but this guy, this clone thing.
	You were talking about how a government might want to make soldiers.
	Yes.
	It seems to me like any government might also want to make people who will mindlessly follow and be good little workers.
	Well, yes.
	Kind of a scary twist on it, I think.
	That's the whole idea of the military.
	The whole idea of the military.
	I went to a basic training in Lackland at Lackland Air Force Base in Texas and what they try and do is mold you into No longer an individual, but they mold you into part of a fighting force that will do exactly as it is ordered to do.
	Period.
	That's it.
	It's like attempting to remove every shred of individuality that you have.
	Right, but since we're all these little snowflakes, some of us are rather rebellious, and it doesn't work very well.
	So would the military be interested in a universal, perfectly order-following, executing soldier?
	Oh man, you bet they would.
	Oh yeah.
	Does that mean I believe this guy has clones?
	Not necessarily.
	He might be a doppelganger.
	Hell of a defense, though, isn't it?
	Yeah, it's an interesting one.
	Because when they go to the Defense Department and ask them about a project to clone people to be soldiers, what kind of answer do you think they're going to get?
	I don't know, but stranger things have held up in court.
	Yes, they have.
	Have a very, very good night.
	Stranger things have held up in court, indeed.
	They're probably going to get a no comment or just a flat denial.
	And so, you know, it may serve the purpose of his defense.
	The job of the defense attorneys, I suppose, in this case, would be to convince a jury that our government would do such a thing.
	And in fact, in this case, may well have to the point of reasonable doubt.
	It is the first such case I've ever heard of being defended in this way.
	I saw a very interesting program last night that I'm inclined to want to talk to you about.
	I may hear shortly.
	East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi.
	I have a car that I think tried to kill my fiancée.
	It hated her.
	Christine.
	Mike.
	This is Mike.
	No, no, no.
	The car.
	Christine.
	Christine, right.
	Well, this car was a Nissan, an 88 Nissan.
	And how it goes is she owned the car before I did.
	I bought it off of her.
	Uh, she hated it.
	It always broke down, but I needed a car.
	It was my first car.
	Got it for over $300.
	Right.
	Interestingly enough, the mechanic fixed, like, a wire in it, and it ran perfectly.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	But this was once you got it?
	Once I got it.
	I mean, the allegation that the car tried to kill your fiancee, that's pretty strong.
	Well, it gets better.
	Okay.
	So, and now from that point on, almost practically any time she would borrow it or drive in it, something would happen.
	It would stall.
	It would break down.
	We were living in Syracuse around the time, and we would drive around Syracuse University.
	And there's lots of hills.
	And I let her drive it once, and it just stalled.
	It hopped and popped.
	The muffler was backfiring.
	Right.
	She screamed at the car.
	I screamed at her.
	I said, what are you doing to my car?
	I got in the car, went right up the hill.
	Then, she goes to California for a week after that.
	When she comes back, she gets in the car.
	She's in the passenger side.
	We're driving along.
	The car door, the passenger side door, the hinge just did it's way and the door slides
	open.
	Oh now how often does that happen?
	Exactly.
	So it's just, and every time she would get in the car.
	So the car wanted her to fall out.
	He hated her.
	I think it was because she hated that car so much when she first got it and I loved
	it.
	I loved that car.
	I still have the car.
	It's very important to make a car or something as complex as a car, even more complex, understand
	that you like it.
	It is.
	It is.
	I just, I don't understand, like, really, you know, she would really try different things.
	She tried the Blessed once.
	She was absolutely convinced that it was trying to kill her.
	And we christened it, and when she hit it on the hood, she cracked the distributor cap or something like that.
	She didn't say it wouldn't work.
	So, that car just had it in for her.
	I understand, sir.
	I appreciate the story.
	Take care.
	I so hated this poor girl that I tried to kill her on several occasions.
	Well, let's see, do I believe that?
	I do believe that talking in an affectionate way to your car, I know this is going to sound really stupid, but we do.
	We, both my wife and myself, We'll occasionally, uh, we love our little Geo Metro, for example.
	And we will frequently... Pat it.
	Good car.
	Good car.
	And I know that sounds stupid, but it never has failed us, and it definitely has never tried to kill us.
	Now, could a car so dislike you?
	I'll get such bad vibes, 60s word inserted, That it would, uh, it would perhaps even, uh, try to kill you.
	Well, uh, if anything could kill you, a car certainly could do it, couldn't it?
	When was the last time the hinges on your door failed and it fell off?
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Dan in Idaho Falls.
	Yes, sir.
	A few weeks ago, you had a story about a man in Lucknow, India, that was declared dead, and he laid around for 14 days before he revived.
	Ah, yes.
	I recall, yes.
	Well, I'm Messenger 666, and I'm being shown all the diseases, and that particular disease is something I'm calling Zombie Head.
	Zombie Head.
	Well, first of all, why would you call yourself Messenger 666?
	You realize the significance of that number, of course.
	Well, I'm God's messenger, bringing the solutions to the world.
	But God wouldn't have a messenger with the number 666.
	That is the number of the other one.
	I'm going through the Holy Switchboard to get through every week.
	I really am.
	The holy switchboard.
	Yes.
	So, there must be something that, so you say you manage to get through on average once a week?
	Oh, more than that.
	Uh-huh.
	Well, anyhow, I wanted to talk about zombie head and what causes it.
	What causes it?
	Well, sodium aluminum silicates in the head.
	You see, remember Richard Hoagland and tetrahedral geometry?
	Well, little tetrahedral molecules And I like neutrinos.
	And when the neutrino intensity gets very high, you get a lot of x-rays.
	And that overloads the brain.
	That's what causes zombie head.
	And it's aluminum.
	So then you apparently, effectively die.
	You go into a very deep coma.
	So deep that people think you're dead.
	Well, President Bush had it for a moment, and so did Janet Reno.
	Uh-huh.
	And coming up in April, several hundred million people are going to die or go into zombie head, and we're going to have to have a way to sort them out.
	And why in April?
	That's when the neutrino intensity goes, uh, just goes through the roof.
	I see.
	All right.
	Well, we'll look forward to that.
	A number of predictions that have been made on the show like that have fallen through lately.
	Thankfully, actually.
	Zombie-headism.
	Uh, there was that fellow, and, uh, boy, I'll tell you, they were all set to, uh, bury him and, uh, or incinerate his body, as I recall, and he woke up.
	That would be really disconcerting.
	I believe they put you on a little conveyor belt in a, uh, And probably a cardboard casket or something, and they wheel your butt into the flames where you are consumed.
	Can you imagine in any stage of that process waking up, hearing the furnace, feeling your feet begin to get warm, starting to scream?
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air, good morning.
	Hello?
	Hello?
	Oh, hey!
	Hey!
	Sorry, I was turning down my phone.
	Well, you can't turn down your phone.
	Turn down your radio.
	Anyway.
	Yes, sir, where are you?
	Yeah, I'm sorry.
	Yeah, this is Damien in Pomona, California.
	Damien.
	Yeah.
	Great name.
	You've talked to me a few times.
	I bet I comment on your name every time.
	Every single time.
	And you forget me every single time, too.
	That's okay.
	I expect it.
	Actually, I was going to ask you about that.
	Do you realize how many times Dan in Idaho Falls has called you?
	No.
	Ever since 1997, he's always called and you even had a sound clip on him.
	He was talking about the dumping arsenic into the sun and all that.
	Jesus Christ was coming back and all that.
	I think I remember the arsenic into the sun business.
	He has called you about like 10 times.
	Anyway, my question is really simple.
	Have you ever thought about having Phil Henry on your show?
	No, I haven't.
	I mean, I may have given it a second thought or so.
	I would love to have dueling arts, just for five minutes.
	The thoughts that could occur to me on that are... Anyway, I thought I would just call and suggest that to you.
	Before I, you know, haggle Phil to get in to come on the show.
	Well, you know, it would be, it would be disconcerting for me because Phil does me too well.
	Well, I mean, just like maybe like the first half hour just for fun before you have your guest on or something.
	I know, but it would be like, it would be like talking to your clone.
	Right?
	Or your evil twin.
	Or your evil twin, that's right.
	Anyway, okay, well... I will further consider it for a second or two.
	Alright?
	Alright.
	Thank you very much.
	Phil does imitations of me.
	And so he obviously must listen in order to do that.
	And having him actually on the program with me would be really, really, I think, disconcerting.
	You know, I'm willing to try anything once, I suppose.
	But he sounds so very much like me when he wants to, or anybody else for that matter, that it really would be terribly disconcerting.
	But you never know.
	There's the law of unintended consequences.
	Uh, Wester the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Well, uh, I'd like to make a prediction on that guy with the zombie head thing.
	Yeah?
	Well, I think that, uh, you know, he's kind of a genius.
	It went sour.
	And in April, we're not all gonna die.
	I think he's gonna be in a mental hospital.
	You think so, huh?
	Well, who else would think different than, you know, this guy stuck in lava land, basically?
	Maybe.
	Maybe, and maybe not.
	You just never know about people.
	You talk about fellow in India?
	That's a true story, sir.
	Maybe there are people like that.
	I don't expect millions of them in April, but pretty weird stuff.
	Oh, well, yeah.
	I don't know.
	I'm calling out of Washington, and it's just kind of weird that, you know, everybody says, oh, Bigfoot's here, and da-da-da-da-da, and just stuff like that, and I don't know, I'm not really... Well, how do you know Bigfoot is not there?
	Uh, I've never seen him.
	Well, uh, there's lots of things I haven't seen, but I still know they're there.
	Okay, well, how do you know Bigfoot's here?
	Well, I know, for example, that radio exists, but I don't see radio waves.
	You're right.
	I know radio exists, too.
	I actually enjoy my radio.
	Right.
	But you don't see the radio waves, right?
	Uh-huh.
	But you just know they're there?
	Uh-huh.
	I think Bigfoot probably is there, too.
	I mean, maybe not where you are specifically, but we've had too many incredibly detailed reports, so... Yeah.
	Bigfoot probably is there.
	Yeah.
	I got another question for you.
	Mm-hmm?
	Do you believe in the Mothman Prophecies?
	Uh, I believe I do.
	Yes?
	Yes, I mean, if you hear the real story as we had it here on the air, and you listened very, very carefully, I don't see how you could help but believe that some information was trying to be sent.
	Stuff certainly happened.
	This is for my friends over the hill.
	From Aaron in San Francisco.
	Hey Art, I was just watching DW German television.
	They warned that a volcano in Colima, Mexico was just hours away from erupting.
	They said 2,000 people had already been evacuated from the area.
	And of course there is a of the Congo.
	Wasn't it Sean Morton who said this would be the year of the volcanoes?
	Chalk another one up for Sean David Morton.
	A couple of interesting fast blasts here from Tom in Detroit, who says, Oh God, in a two week span just before Christmas, I had a broken sewer pipe in the basement, a cracked water heater and a conked out furnace.
	The house seemed to rebel all At once.
	And then Rosalie in, uh, I believe it's, uh, Gatesburg, Illinois, says, Have you ever heard the theory that when people are really stressed, their machines choose that time to break down?
	That's a very interesting theory, that your stress somehow transfers to the, uh, the mechanical aspects or the electronic aspects of any machine you are near.
	Could easily be true.
	And then there's this.
	The headline is, Antarctica becomes too hot for the penguins.
	Warning to world.
	This is the Independent in London.
	Penguins are starting to desert parts of Antarctica because the icy wastes are getting too hot.
	The numbers of Adelie penguins on the Antarctic Peninsula The most northerly part of the frozen continent are falling as global warming takes hold, and experts predict, as the climate change continues, they may abandon much of the 900-mile-long promontory altogether.
	Dark, typal, tuxedoed species, you've seen them, like the cold even more than other types of penguins, and the peninsula has been warming up faster than almost anywhere else on Earth.
	Get this.
	With temperatures increasing at least five times faster than the world average.
	Scientists believe this is disrupting their food supplies.
	Global warming is also causing them grief in another of their strongholds, the Ross Sea.
	Two giant icebergs have broken off the Antarctic ice sheet and are blocking the way from their breeding colonies to their feeding areas.
	As a result, Listen to this.
	They have to walk 30 miles further to get food, no small matter, when they can manage only one mile per hour.
	And on the other side of the continent, thousands of emperor penguin chicks drowned near Britain's Haley Base after the ice broke up early before they had learned to swim.
	So the consequences are building quickly at the bottom of the world.
	And I tell you folks, we are the frogs boiling in the slowly warming pan.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	My name is Dennis.
	I'm from Reno.
	Yes, sir.
	And I'm going to talk to you about something I saw back in 79 and 80, but I wanted to mention first, it was interesting.
	You're talking about technological equipment breaking down on you.
	That's right.
	It took me several times to get through to you, and I tried to use my cell phone.
	I don't have a producer, sir.
	I answer the phones myself.
	The cell phones are an example of technology gone in reverse.
	Well, there you go.
	I answer the phones myself. The cell phones are an example of technology gone in reverse.
	I'm inclined to agree. What I did is I put an external antenna on it and I'm talking to you.
	Well, there you go.
	Isn't that crazy? Anyway, the reason I called, sir, is that back in, it was either 79 or 80,
	I lived over in the San Francisco Bay Area, Silicon Valley.
	I was driving to work and every time I tell this story, people think I'm nuts.
	But I thought if anyone, and maybe you've got some information on this.
	I was driving to work about a three mile stretch and I looked over, I was doing about 50, 55 in my car.
	I looked off to the left and about 30 feet off the ground was a round sphere, is the best way to describe it, like a round ball that was chrome in color that looked about to be maybe twice to three times the size of a basketball.
	It was traveling at the same speed I was doing.
	It went underneath a couple overpasses with me and I looked around to see if there was anybody, you know, playing games with a remote control or something.
	I couldn't see anybody, just this thing.
	I couldn't see, you know, inside of it or anything like that.
	Was it really bright, like a plasma ball or something?
	It was like a real shiny chrome-type bulb.
	I looked for antennas and stuff like that.
	I didn't see anything like that.
	And at the end of this approximately three-mile stretch, all of a sudden it just shot straight up, and it was gone extremely fast, and I couldn't guess at the speed.
	So what do you think you saw?
	I don't know.
	A round ball followed me down the freeway that I thought, well, maybe it had something to do with some of the stuff that goes on in Silicon Valley.
	Somebody's got something that's more advanced than what I had known before.
	And I thought if anyone had any idea or any contact with something like that, it might be you, sir.
	All right.
	Well, no, I don't accept the following.
	As I've mentioned in the last several shows to various guests, there has now actually been a measurement of plasma balls.
	They're very interesting.
	They don't appear to be related to ball lightning or anything of that sort, but they are plasma balls and they are capable of doing something that physics says they cannot do.
	Maintaining themselves in the atmospheres, even growing in size, and that just cannot be.
	You know, the general laws just suggest that anything created that would sustain itself in the atmosphere, could not sustain itself in the atmosphere.
	It would slowly, simply burn out or go boom.
	But it would not sustain itself and or increase in size.
	So I have no idea what we're talking about here, but I've heard others explain what you're talking about.
	Wildcard Line, you are on the air.
	Good morning, Eric.
	Good morning, sir.
	Where are you?
	This is Kat, near San Francisco.
	I've got a little problem with electricity, but before I do that, I've got a question for you.
	At the very beginning of the 11 o'clock hour, you played an excerpt of a little thing about a devil woman.
	What is it called, and who is it by?
	It's called Devil Woman.
	I don't even remember who... Then there are two songs by that name.
	One on the Calypso line, and this one.
	Okay, well, anyhow, the problem with electricity.
	Yes.
	Even while I was in the military, I was often plagued by a problem of batteries going flat.
	I used to think it was just bad batteries or lousy charges or things like that.
	Then afterwards, I went to work at this large company, and we had, in it, these large shake tables.
	Several of them.
	And we used to play cards near them.
	And I started noticing after I was exposed to these shape tables that I could cross six inch arcs off my fingers.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	And, uh, this made the other supervisors a little bit, uh... Nervous?
	Well, we say squirrely because they didn't want me anywhere near their test equipment.
	Uh-huh.
	Well, I would agree with them.
	And I still have a little bit of a problem.
	Batteries still go dead on me.
	Do not like cordless phones.
	I even have trouble with handhelds.
	Yeah, you see, we have two distinct classes of people here, it would seem.
	That, um, would seem to be good with equipment like this.
	And then there's you.
	Yeah.
	Well, even security lights have a tendency to go out once I get out of my vehicle.
	And it's a great RF shield.
	But that's the nice thing about steel cars.
	But, uh, you step out of them and you just watch the security lights die and sometimes street lights.
	I wonder how much better everything in the world would work if we were to round up all the people like you and, uh, oh, well, I don't know.
	No.
	Keep you in one shielded location.
	Well, shielding might be good.
	I thought you'd get a kick out of it.
	Well, I appreciate it, sir.
	I know it's true.
	There really are people like this.
	Now, should they all be rounded up and put in a shielded enclosure?
	Treated humanely, of course.
	Fed.
	And kept alive.
	But not allowed to breed, of course.
	I don't know.
	I don't know, but I know there are people like this gentleman.
	East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hi, Art.
	Hello.
	Where are you, sir?
	I'm from Kansas.
	And your name?
	Bob.
	Okay, Bob.
	Hey, your last caller?
	Yes.
	We need to get a whole bunch of them and run them by some slot machines in Las Vegas.
	How does that sound?
	See what happens.
	I don't think much good.
	I mean, I know you're assuming that they would go berserk and pay out, but I think all lemons would come up.
	Hey, what I mainly called for, you know when you were talking on the update with Mel, on Mel Cole?
	Oh, yes, of course.
	Let me ask you a question.
	It's a thought that hit my mind.
	Sure.
	What if we drilled a hole all the way through the earth?
	All the way through?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Now, if you throw something down in it, would it come out the other side and stop it and
	try to fall back down?
	Or would it neutralize somewhere in the middle?
	God, is that a good question.
	You know, we think relative to when we were talking about, when you were talking about
	gravity.
	Yeah, you remember when I had the guest on and he said that it was his view that you'd
	get two to three hundred miles down in the earth and gravity would begin to dissipate
	He thought it was a function of the upper crustal areas of the Earth.
	And I don't dismiss that theory.
	It may well be that somewhere toward the center of the Earth, you would become weightless.
	Okay.
	If we throw something down, let's say Mel's hole went all the way through.
	Right.
	Let's say we throw something down, and it went at 32 feet per second per second.
	Right.
	In speed.
	Right.
	If it came out at the other side somewhere, would it come up to the crust?
	You know what I mean?
	Would it start me going back uphill?
	You follow what I'm saying?
	Or would it just go down there and stop at some point in the middle?
	I have not got the slightest idea, sir.
	It's an interesting thing to contemplate, though.
	Isn't that a strange thought?
	I mean, I would wonder, because we know we can't go up.
	Well, what I think is that we should, as a nation, it's one thing we can do, I mean, Sure, going to Mars is real expensive and I would love to go, but we could drill a hole, a really, really, really, really deep hole, if not all the way through, just to see exactly what's in there and what would happen.
	I'd be all in favor of that.
	I wonder how much it would cost.
	Do you think we could get all the way through?
	Through the center core?
	I have no idea.
	I have no idea, sir, but I... Also, that other caller was saying at one point he thought it was hollow, you know what I mean?
	And I don't know, I seem to think it's more molten, but I don't know, you know?
	Well, that's how we'd find out.
	I'm all for that.
	How many of you would like to see an official government project that instead of going for Mars, sorry Richard, just a thought, would endeavor to drill a large diameter hole very, very deep into the Earth, if not all the way through.
	Now, what would happen if you had a hole all the way through the Earth?
	I just I have no idea what a fascinating question it depends on what model of what you believe the earth is made of in the core you believe in if you believe it's molten then obviously something like that is not going to be immediately possible if on the other hand you think it might be hollow or a solid Then something like that might be possible, and the answer to his question would have to wait until we did it.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Uh, hey, Art.
	Hello.
	Hey, I'm, uh, actually a first-time caller, but, uh... That's quite all right.
	I just got a couple comments to make.
	Sounds like I'm hearing gurgling water.
	That was gurgling water.
	Uh-huh, okay.
	I'm just running some water, doing some dishes and stuff.
	I see.
	And I'm actually rather impressed to get through to you.
	Well, here you are.
	Okay.
	Hey, I just got a comment to make to you.
	I don't want to call myself a skeptic, but I just have a couple of opinions to make.
	My prior military, and I've been pretty much, every night I listen to your show, I've been pretty much around a good portion of the world, and I'm just rather kind of confused.
	Uh, am I doing something wrong?
	Well, what is it you're confused about, sir?
	Well, I've slept in some of the most desolate rest stops on Earth.
	Mm-hmm.
	I've been to pretty much a good number of countries.
	Mm-hmm.
	And I ain't seen nothing.
	I ain't seen nothing.
	And I'm wondering, am I doing something wrong?
	Well, what do you mean you ain't seen nothing?
	I ain't seen no Bigfoot.
	I ain't seen no UFOs.
	I've never seen no glowing balls of light.
	I haven't seen anything.
	I'm kind of wondering, you know, am I just alone here or... You know, it just seems kind of weird.
	Are you disappointed by that?
	Yeah, I'm actually kind of disappointed.
	I thought after all these years of being out in the middle of the woods, the middle of nowhere... What is it, sir, that you would like to see?
	I'd like to see anything that would... Well, no, no, let's get down to cases here.
	I mean, do you want to see Bigfoot?
	Would you settle for a UFO?
	Would you want to go all the way and be abducted?
	Well, to be honest with you, if I could say I've actually done or seen anything, I would be actually kind of satisfied.
	You know, because having gone to some of the, you know, I've been out in the middle of the ocean, I've been, you know, flown across the entire half of the Earth, a 12-hour flight, and, you know, you get to looking out your window after 12 hours and you don't see anything.
	Most flights are very boring, and you don't see much from a plane, sir, so I wouldn't cite that necessarily as Uh, cause for dismay.
	However, you're spending nights at rest stops in very lonely spots around the Earth, never having seen anything.
	Well, that's... I mean, there's bound to be a lot of you out there.
	Not everybody has seen something.
	Well, it just kind of gets me after a while.
	Like I said, I like listening to your show, and some of the people who call in, you know, driving down lonely highways and all that, and all of a sudden, here's a sphere of light.
	You kind of get to wondering.
	Well, how old are you?
	I'm 34.
	34.
	Plenty of time yet, sir.
	I most certainly hope so.
	I hope to call you back someday and, you know, tell you I've seen something at least.
	All right, where are you roughly?
	I'm in Northern California.
	Where?
	Northern California.
	Northern California.
	Specifically, the name of the town?
	Weaverville.
	Weaverville.
	Up in the mountains.
	Let me see what I can do for you.
	All right.
	I've heard a few stories up here since I started working up here about, you know, certain people that, you know, they've seen.
	It's more of an older, minor town, and they've seen some pretty strange things.
	You keep your eyes on the skies, and we'll see what we can do.
	We get some clear ones, I'll tell you that.
	All right, sir.
	You take care.
	As I said, you keep a watch out.
	We'll see.
	First time on the line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	Oh, I'm sorry about that.
	All right, all right.
	I just had a couple of comments.
	One about the technological devices striking back.
	Yes, sir.
	As soon as that segment started earlier, I've never had a problem getting your show to come in.
	It's got a lot of static during that segment, and I couldn't get any of the radios in the house to come on to your show.
	I finally got to come in right after the break.
	I know, and you know, the guest was here talking about technology striking back, the law of
	unintended consequences, exactly what occurred to him with his appearance here.
	Yeah, so is he supposed to call back, or?
	Well, we'll try and get in touch with him and see if we can work it out, but we tried
	any number of combinations of calling him, and we could not get a good line.
	Right.
	That was clear and strong and legible.
	We just couldn't get it.
	So.
	I don't know.
	His whole theory hit him.
	Maybe he's one of those people like one of the calls I had a little while ago.
	Maybe.
	Where things just don't work.
	I mean, after all, he wrote a book about it, so.
	We didn't have a chance to get into it, but maybe his entire life has been plagued By things going wrong at exactly the worst or wrong time.
	I couldn't even begin to imagine.
	In other words, things, your life is okay.
	Everything seems to work fine most of the time.
	Cars don't try to kill you.
	No.
	No.
	Machines don't crumble at the very touch.
	No, not normally.
	With maybe a couple people I know.
	There do seem to be people like that though.
	Now, how do you account for that?
	Is it their aura, their vibration, their... I don't know, something about them?
	It could be related to stress.
	Yeah, that's what somebody else suggested in Fast Blast, and I think that is a very, very good comment.
	Related to stress.
	That a machine somehow...
	After all, many people believe that we are all connected and that things are connected.
	In other words, we are connected to our desk, to our furniture, to everything around us, including the electronics and the technological devices that we have.
	And it may well be that if our stress level is through the roof, that these things feel it and react to it.
	Something to think about.
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Open lines!
	All right, back into the night, playing with the shadows and all of you we go.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	How you doing?
	I'm doing.
	That's good.
	This is kind of blatant and somewhat obvious, but to me it was a bit of a revelation the time I thought about it.
	I'm tying it in pretty much to just the... I've read a book about all of the indigenous tribes, whatever.
	Whole collective ancestry knowledge is pretty much there's going to be a, you know, the end, pretty much, and what is going to come out.
	And electricity just seems the perfect way, pretty much.
	Tying it into pretty much, if we are energy, if you break it down in that sense.
	I'm not exactly following you.
	Okay, that's not too surprising.
	Pretty much, electricity, if it did bite us in the ass in the end, and we did end up, you know, Being flawed by our own greatest technologies.
	Oh yes.
	All that stuff.
	Yes.
	Um, just the entire energy thing.
	Dealing with ancestors and a lot of that.
	Several tribes, like Little O Mayans, the main one I'm thinking of right now, but a lot of them predicted, you know, that exact thing.
	And it was, it was an epiphany to me at the time in my kitchen, looking at my electricity and just the blatantness of, you know, that is the past, that is the energy that we are, that is who we are, that, you know, ancestors, that sense of payback, all that thing.
	So, yeah, that struck me as odd and somewhat obvious, of course, but it was a revelation at the time.
	That electrical things could turn on us?
	Well, pretty much since our past ancestors.
	Kind of like when animals attack, except electricity?
	Pretty much.
	It's what we come from and we've mutilated and abused in the sense of serving our own
	desires and what not in the sense that it might not be the best thing for the entire
	globe with the hole and all that crap.
	There certainly is a school of thought out there that says there was a prior civilization
	that operated in a very different way.
	They had some sort of technology but nothing related to that which we have right now but
	they still got things done that we cannot duplicate now.
	Interesting. Yep, yep, yep. Tied in together.
	There you go.
	Alright, thanks.
	Thank you very much.
	Take care.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Um, yeah, I just had two quick comments to make.
	Okay.
	Regarding the military man claiming that a clone committed this crime... Ah, yes.
	If he got caught, then wouldn't that make him not the ultimate killing machine?
	Just getting caught?
	Um...
	Well, he's not claiming, though, that he is the ultimate killing machine.
	He's claiming that his clone, which he says was designed to be the ultimate killing machine.
	Which, by the way, has not been caught.
	I mean, they haven't caught his clone, right?
	Well, okay, no.
	He's claiming the clone is the murderer.
	Oh, okay.
	Okay.
	You get it now?
	Yeah.
	But you see what I'm saying?
	Well, I do.
	If the clone gets caught, then you're absolutely right.
	It would not be the ultimate killing machine.
	But so far, the clone has not been apprehended.
	And I wouldn't be holding my breath if I were you.
	Yeah.
	Alright?
	And also, about people and electricity, I'm scared to death of electricity because of static.
	Uh, in other words, you're one of those people.
	I get shocked every time I touch... When I go into stores, I have to flick it with my fingernail and let the electricity absorb through there, the shock.
	Okay, rather than, the way you should operate is, rather than barely touching something, or as you point out, flicking it with your fingernail.
	That's a very dangerous way to do it.
	You can kill things that way.
	Instead, what you want to do is go to something that is grounded, and grasp it hard.
	Now, then you will not feel the shock.
	You will discharge whatever static electricity has built up in your body, harmlessly.
	But if you walk around randomly touching stuff, you will kill it.
	Well, between my moped and the supermarket or the whatever front door, you know, if I'm going to touch something that's grounded, then it's going to be metal.
	OK, well, your front door wouldn't count unless it's a total metal door.
	No.
	Nor would the doorknob count.
	You've got to grab something that's really grounded.
	And that means, oh, I don't know.
	I know what it means, yeah.
	Okay.
	Otherwise, you will kill things right and left.
	You will kill VCRs, various types of electronics.
	You will just cause them to die.
	I do it all the time.
	And I am not one of those people.
	My wife, however, is.
	Now, you can hand my wife a telephone, one that even I have been holding.
	And the moment she grabs it, the brain dies.
	Not hers, but the phone's.
	And it needs to be reset.
	She is sort of one of those people, but on the other hand, she's good with some other things.
	But electronics?
	We've had this thought several times.
	And I don't exactly know what it is, but there is something with regard to human beings and machines and electronics.
	I just, I'm not sure what it is.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Uh, yeah.
	My name's Sam.
	I'm in Atlanta.
	Yes, Sam.
	Um, yeah.
	Well, one, um, I have a problem with batteries.
	I think I seem to drain them pretty slowly, but that's not actually what I called.
	Um, my ex-girlfriend, um, it's really a funny story, actually.
	Well, it'd be funny if you were there.
	Um, whenever she used to get angry, bulbs used to pop, like the wires in them.
	Right.
	They used to just break.
	There you are.
	And she could not keep a lightbulb in the house at all.
	This is exactly the kind of thing we're talking about.
	I mean, it was actually pretty scary because most of the time she was angry at me.
	Oh, really?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, that's it, really.
	OK, I appreciate the call.
	Thank you.
	Yes, anger and large emotion can seem to cause things to go wrong.
	I just do not fully understand this phenomena, but it may have something to do with, oh, for example, young teenage girls with hormones raging.
	Any paranormal investigator will tell you that very, very strange and unusual things happen around these young ladies.
	And so if you have somebody like that, I guess you don't want to make them angry.
	West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes, sir.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	Okey-doke.
	There you are.
	Hi, Art.
	Yes, sir.
	This is Darren from Santa Rosa, California.
	Yes, Darren.
	Well, I'm listening to your show about the electricity acting strange around certain people, and I have a suggestion that ties into another one of your shows.
	Fire away.
	Well, I was listening, I guess about a week back, I had a show with a scientist on from Canada who has been levitating, I guess things with covalent bonds in them, water, plastic.
	That's right, yes.
	Well, I think the human body may work on the same principles.
	Our nerve tissue, our brain tissue, people that are psychically active may have control over that same force created by us.
	Well, that's not a bad theory, actually.
	Well, I myself have had... Now, a lot of people talk about how they see things in time, they see the future, they have predictions.
	Yes.
	I have seen things in time, but it's always in the past.
	Hmm.
	I have these... I don't know.
	They're not really premonitions, they're post-munitions, I guess?
	What do you mean?
	You see things after they've occurred?
	Kind of a waking dream.
	Where you're somebody else and you're in a different time.
	Right.
	And you... Like maybe a trolley car goes past at the same time as a truck goes past and you flip back into reality?
	Hmm.
	That sounds really weird, I know.
	But is it possible that people that cause this effect in machines, not just the static
	of walking across the floor and hitting the computer, because even if you have one of
	those little anti-static straps on, I can sit down and crash almost anyone's computer
	I know.
	So I'm thinking, perhaps it's people that have certain, I guess it would be a psychic
	anomaly because I don't have any control over it.
	I don't think that makes it an ability.
	Having no control over it, how could it be an ability?
	It's more of a side effect, I guess.
	Yeah, if you had control over it, you would obviously exercise it and probably choose most times not to kill something, right?
	Well, yeah.
	No, not that being more of a side effect.
	I'm talking about being able to, I guess, trance past experiences, possibly of yourself
	if you lived a past life or maybe even at a location where something happened in the
	past that you pick up on.
	It might not just be that.
	It might be any kind of psychic activity in the person, no matter how mundane, might make
	that person more prone to have a stronger electromagnetic field about them.
	It could be.
	Maybe we need to figure out ways to measure the fields around people.
	Well, they've done some work on that with Kirlian photography, though that's not very reliable.
	Yeah, but maybe there's another spectrum that even Kirlian photography is not picking up that we need to be able to measure.
	Hmm.
	Perhaps.
	Do we, now, do you know if we as human beings put off an RF wave?
	Now, there's an interesting question.
	As human beings, we know we are electrical, that electrical impulses go to the brain, and our brain, or from the brain, and to the brain, and so it would make sense that, yeah, there might be some sort of RF radiation from a biological being.
	God, that's an interesting question.
	Thank you.
	You're welcome.
	Thank you.
	Right, thank you.
	I'm going to have to think about that.
	That is really interesting.
	Actually, you would think there would be some RF radiation from a biological being of any sort, since electrical impulses are used, even if it's nothing more than a general white noise of some sort.
	What an interesting question.
	Rust to the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, this is Olin in Culver City, California.
	Yes, Olin.
	Yes, Mel Waters said that he helped three men with AIDS in Australia by giving them the North Nevada Indian herbal medicine for colds and flu that an army doctor used to stop the swine flu epidemic of 1918.
	Yes, sir.
	That medicine might cure persistent colds and chronic fatigue like Epstein-Barr syndrome and Lyme disease.
	These are all different viruses.
	And I was thinking that maybe the Nevada Indians could sell their herbal medicine as a treatment for AIDS and other viruses, and the big pharmaceutical companies would lose millions of dollars in high-priced patented drugs that don't work good.
	Well, those two... Well, you know, people have thought that for a long time about many Well, those two men in black that beat up Milt Waters in the back of the transit bus and drugged him and pulled his back teeth out, they were either from the pharmaceutical companies that didn't want this medicine on the market... Maybe.
	Don't forget his belt buckle.
	Well, or else they also could have been from Spetsnaz from Russia to prevent us from defeating the German warfare.
	Well, it could have been almost anything, sir.
	I would have no way of knowing.
	Nor would Mel.
	It's a whole concept of men in black.
	I wonder if I really believe in that.
	If there really is some sort of group.
	Organized group.
	That goes around squashing things that we have no I don't want to say no right to know about.
	From their point of view, no right to know about.
	A sort of a put out the fire squad.
	A paranormal put out the fire squad.
	I don't put it beyond a reason that there would be such a group.
	And of course it wouldn't take a whole lot of doing on their part for the myth to grow and for us all to believe in it.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Uh, my name is, uh, Ulysses from, uh, Texas.
	Yes, sir.
	And, uh, I just wanted to comment about a few things.
	Comment away.
	Go ahead.
	Well, um... Turn your radio off, Ulysses.
	That's a prime thing you've gotta do right away.
	Well, I heard it over and over again on the radio, but, uh, it never occurred to me to do it here.
	Uh-huh.
	Well, anyways, um...
	I have one particular theory on the body.
	Now it may either affect electronics with either a positive charge or a negative charge.
	As if your body or my body may carry positive or negative.
	Well, we know we carry static electricity.
	No question about that one.
	You know, you walk up and you zap something, and you touch it and zap it, right?
	We all know about that, but I think there's something else.
	We were just talking about that.
	Do you hear the man who called and said, do you think there's some kind of RF radiation, radio frequency, uh, radiation?
	What I'm saying is, uh, let's say that you, Art, are actually positively charged, and I personally am negatively charged.
	Uh-huh.
	Because, actually, I myself have bad luck with PCs.
	You have bad luck with your telephone now, too.
	Everything, actually.
	So you're one of those?
	One of those.
	But I wanted to share one story of mine about a UFO.
	A UFO?
	Yeah.
	And I was watching Roswell Conspiracies, and I understood that they transported some materials from Roswell to Texas.
	I used to live in Florida, Texas, and I do believe I saw a government-made UFO.
	I was about 12 years old.
	How old are you now?
	I'm 23.
	You're 23?
	Well, they transported this material that you speak of from Roswell to Texas long before you were born.
	Well, that's what I'm saying, is that they had this much time to gather and produce something.
	Um, and I do remember one of your descriptions on your website when you encountered a triangular UFO.
	Yes.
	I actually encountered a rectangular UFO.
	Um, and just like what you said, made no noise.
	It was about 30 yards from where I was standing above my head.
	And not one noise.
	As a military brat, I know what a military aircraft looks like, and this is no military aircraft publicly made.
	All right, well, I understand perfectly what you're saying, and if you think about it, if a craft is able to, in essence, defy gravity, and it's not required to make aerodynamic flight, then the shape would not be important.
	Right?
	It could be a rectangle, it could be a Even a square, it really would not matter if its flight did not depend on aerodynamic, in other words on lift, as aircraft as we understand them do.
	And it was actually defying gravity.
	Then you would have all sorts of designs that would not even care whether they looked sleek and pointed and air flowed around them in a certain way to give them lift and on and on and on and on, right?
	They would be any shape You can imagine.
	In just about every shape you can imagine.
	Whatever would be convenient for the user would in all probability be the shape.
	So... Yes.
	Yes, indeed.
	I can imagine all kinds of odd craft out there.
	You would simply make what would be... And actually what would be convenient might be square.
	Or it might be a triangle.
	Or it might be whatever was pleasing to your eye.
	Because it doesn't have to fly.
	It just defies gravity.
	And moves above and around you silently.
	Heaven knows we have plenty of reports of that kind of thing, don't we?
	Talking to somebody earlier today about music and music absolutely keys memories in your mind.
	Memories that haven't been around for a long time.
	You'll hear a specific piece of music and boom!
	It's like time travel.
	You're right back there.
	I wonder what does that?
	All of a sudden you're back there The people that were around you, what you were doing, your environment, it all comes back, like a scent return.
	You know, it's really odd, isn't it?
	Anyway, I'm Mark Bell, and this is the home of odd coast-to-coast AMs.
	Say, right there, we're in open lines.
	And now, back into the dark of night, we go.
	First time calling a line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Art.
	Yes, sir.
	Howdy.
	I'd like to talk about hydrogen.
	Richard Hogan was talking about the nuclear reaction, splitting oxygen and water earlier.
	Yes, of course.
	I thought using nuclear reaction in outer space would be very dangerous.
	I'd hate to be an offender up there or something like that.
	But to bring it to the water section of it, in Earth science class, I've got a guest coming on who's going to take a very different tact than a guest I had on a while ago.
	They come out and take a match and light it and they explode.
	Everybody did that in class.
	So now all you have to do is fuse hydrogen with another inert molecule and you can control it.
	I've got a guest coming on who's going to take a very different tact than a guest I had on a while ago.
	A guest I had on a while ago said, Look, to create hydrogen you need to use petrochemicals.
	In other words, you need petrochemical power to create the hydrogen.
	Uh, I've got a guest coming on who says, uh, basically that he's all wet.
	You don't need to do that.
	You could use wind power or even, uh, uh, even, uh, uh, solar power to create hydrogen.
	And that we, uh, face a very interesting and good future with hydrogen.
	That's right.
	You can take your car, your car engine, Not a little 4-cylinder rice burner, but a nice big 8-cylinder engine.
	Drill a hole through the exhaust pipe.
	Throw in a water tube in there.
	Put in a heliocoil in that.
	Burn off the hydrogen as it comes up from the heat of the engine.
	Goes right up.
	Put a petcock on it.
	And underneath the carburetor, put a grid so it crosses the grid.
	It comes down through the grid.
	It bonds with another molecule.
	And then, as it bonds, it comes into the cylinders and it explodes.
	Simple as that.
	You won't have any bad oil.
	Your oil will always stay nice and clean.
	You'll have so much power, it's unbelievable.
	You won't pollute the atmosphere.
	It's almost perpetual motion.
	And since that water... You take the airplane out of the tanks.
	You save your air-conditioned water.
	You put it back into the engine.
	In fact, you have too much after a while.
	And you run forever on a little bit of water.
	You don't need oil from the Middle East and a lot of other things.
	You need the oil for plastics.
	Well, I sure would like to see it demonstrated.
	Well, it can be done.
	I've just got to remember that when you shut it off, though, all the air has to come out of it.
	So it has to come down nice and softly.
	So the process takes time to build and to turn off, actually.
	Yeah, but it's safe as all hell.
	You can go over a bridge and not worry about it exploding.
	You don't have to have another spacecraft fly into you and cause an explosion of some kind.
	Or burn somebody up when you leave them in your dust.
	And it's a real easy way, and someday people will get into it.
	But I think in the future, beyond this most practical way of doing that, but in the future, 200 years from now, maybe people will be riding your invisible radio wave.
	Well, that's certainly possible, or maybe there will be some sort of a transporter, as in Star Trek, where everything you are, all the molecules that are you, could be virtually Disintegrated and transported on some sort of RF wave or some sort of microwave or what have you and then reassembled on the other end.
	That's how you end up with some sort of transporter.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi Art, this is Larry from Fort Lauderdale.
	Hey Larry.
	A couple of things, two things real quick.
	I have seen people that have some type of force field or problem with them when they, in the course of their work, have had to have handheld radios, the old Motorola VHS radios.
	I've seen them go through one after the other where the battery either dies or the antenna grounds to the chassis or something and it's always them no matter which radio they give them.
	No matter what they do, yes.
	That is correct.
	The other thing with my own two cents on discharging with static electricity, I have that problem really bad and it's like tonight in Fort Lauderdale it's pretty cold but if I go up in the mountains to take photographs or something I get zapped everywhere and I found that trying to grab the thing real fast still zaps me if you grab, you know, ground.
	So what I do is I carry a key with me if I get out of the car and I always let the spark go at the end of the key and if you do that You might feel a little jolt, but if you don't have that spark touching you, you don't get anywhere near the jolt you get if you let your finger touch the metal.
	Uh, that's absolutely true.
	Uh, and that's good advice for anybody, but that little spark can still be very dangerous to electronics.
	That's true.
	I guess if it touches something like that, you know, I can understand that.
	Uh, one other thing I wanted to throw out there.
	You have a very big affinity for time machines.
	I sure do.
	Oh, did you hear the story from Russia?
	Yes, I did.
	And did you ever think that if you ever succeeded in going back in the time that somewhere out here is probably a wire recording of you trying to talk to us from the past?
	Knowing your technical expertise, you would have gotten yourself into anything that would have recorded your voice.
	And somewhere laying in some dusty attic might just be your recording trying to tell us something from the past.
	You certainly know I would try, sir.
	So I'll continue to check around.
	Okay.
	You bet.
	Some sort of message from the past.
	Of course, there's been so much audio of me that I wonder if I would recognize it or just sort of slough over it.
	That in itself is a very interesting question.
	Yes, the scientist working on what he claims is virtually an HG Wells time machine in Russia.
	He's only sending it back, he's only working on going to the past, and only a very few minutes so far, but even that is startling, if true.
	He's been able to go a very few minutes into the past, and he's done this, according to the story, to be able to be sure he's going to recover his machine, and to get messages.
	God, that's fascinating.
	Really, really, really fascinating.
	East of the Rockies, you are on the air, hello.
	Uh, how are you doing, Art?
	I'm doing alright, sir.
	Um, you know, you talked earlier about technology biting us in the butt.
	Yeah.
	And, um, you know what?
	I kind of have the opposite effect here, where it didn't work.
	Um, September 11th changed all of that, where we had all this technology.
	Bomb-sniffing dogs, and the x-ray machines, and the metal detectors, and we didn't use them.
	Now, all of a sudden, we do.
	Hmm.
	Doesn't seem to a lot of people now.
	Well, you're absolutely right.
	It would have before, though.
	You know, we all of a sudden, we're now LL Airlines.
	You know, we're checking everybody for everything.
	And then here's another point, and this is, like, stupid, but the simple effect.
	You reach over to close your blinds.
	Mm-hmm.
	How many times are you going to grab the wrong cord?
	About 50% of the time, sir.
	Yeah, well, okay, maybe 50% of the time.
	Oh, wait, one more.
	I have a little point.
	First time callers, area code 775-727-1222.
	Objects flying.
	Okay, now, you're not allowed to say that on the air.
	I'm sorry.
	So we're gonna have to begin afresh here.
	Try it again.
	Say, oh darn it, or something.
	Oh darn it.
	And then, aerodynamic objects.
	An aerodynamic object flying through the air.
	Yeah.
	I mean, avionics proved that with the F-14.
	Given enough thrust, a brick can fly.
	I don't care how much thrust you apply.
	Try flying a square.
	Hey, look at that, 14.
	A brick can fly.
	Yeah, I know, but it's still aerodynamic given enough thrust.
	A square or... Yeah, exactly.
	Well, that's what I'm saying.
	Well, you're not saying that, though.
	In other words, a square or something truly...
	Not aerodynamic at any amount of thrust.
	Virtually.
	The only way that you'd properly fly it would be anti-gravity.
	Well, yeah, exactly.
	Thrust.
	I mean, well, what's anti-gravity?
	What is anti-gravity?
	I guess if I knew that, well, I'd be filing patents and I'd be flitting about.
	Silently, I might add.
	West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Hello.
	Mr. Bell.
	Yes?
	I read about a man who worked as a computer engineer and there was this one lady that worked in this office that every couple of days she would fry the motherboard on a computer just by touching the keyboard.
	She discharged electricity all the time.
	Here we are again, yes.
	It took a long time for them to figure out that she always wore acrylic sweaters.
	We would rub her back on the carpeting in the panels of her cubicle.
	She'd stand up and do this thing every once in a while and that created static electricity.
	I'm wondering if some of your listeners who seem very sincere are wearing synthetic fibers
	and maybe their thighs rub together when they walk.
	I mean there are some of these things that might account for some of what they experience.
	Of course, I believe you're correct in probably many cases, but there's something else also
	at work here, I'm telling you.
	Yeah, I understand.
	I just thought for some of them that sound really frustrated, it might be one avenue
	to pursue.
	It might, sir.
	I appreciate the, and I'm sure everybody else does too, the suggestion and people who are
	having this trouble might try it and see.
	Thanks for your show.
	It's a lot of fun.
	All right.
	Take care.
	Well, you might give that a try.
	I mean, it could relate certainly to what you're wearing or the carpet you're on or any number of things.
	But there really is something else at work here.
	And there really are people who have a disastrous effect, I think, no matter what they wear on things, electronic and complicated mechanical apparatus.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	I have a message for your listeners.
	I had some bad information a couple of months ago.
	Bad information?
	Yeah.
	I accused the entity that goes by the G-R-A-Y-S-es of being the creators of mankind from the start.
	So if anybody please heard this, please ignore it.
	It was bad information I had.
	Amy McGray's or not?
	Yeah, I had some information that I found and accused them of being G-O-D.
	Unfortunately, I was wrong.
	Uh, how did you determine you're wrong?
	Or that the information was incorrect?
	Well, this is just from studying, you know, entities above.
	I see.
	So it's... The bodies and stuff like that.
	So it's just something that came to you?
	What's that?
	It's just something that came to you?
	That can be?
	No, that came to you?
	No, no.
	Information that came to you, or what?
	Just from documentaries and stuff.
	I see.
	From television?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And, uh...
	It'd probably be a good idea if the U.S.
	would lay off the chemtrails and leave well enough alone, too.
	Mm-hmm.
	I certainly agree with that.
	There obviously is something to the chemtrails.
	I wish they would tell us.
	I'm sorry that the representative in Chicago has chosen to remove them, though, yes, they are not in space.
	I sure would like to see somebody... Boy, I would really like to interview him, but the chances of that...
	Slim and Minus.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, this is Ed from Miami.
	Okay, you must be on a cell phone.
	Yeah, you heard that, did you?
	I did, yes.
	Okay.
	I want to talk about time travel a little bit, one of your favorite subjects.
	Let's rock.
	Okay, well, a lot of people believe that Revelations by John was in the past, or he wrote about the future, or one of your guests thought he was saw the future, or he was here, or, you know, he was back there seeing the future, but I thought maybe it was like reincarnation that he came and he, you know, I. John was there and that, but like the movie Back to the Future, Michael J. Fox went to the past and changed the future.
	That's right.
	Now I have revelations that we believe, a lot of people believe it's going on now, then right now in the past, they're writing about what's going on now.
	Now, if we were warned about what was going to go on now and changed it, what do you think would be out of the Bible?
	It would be no reason to write what had been changed.
	Look, it's just a thought I had.
	All right.
	Well, I appreciate you sharing it.
	Thank you.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Yes.
	I'm getting on the UFO subject.
	Yes.
	And I live out in Orlando, Florida.
	Yes, sir.
	And I was actually traveling south on, or I'm sorry, north on State Road 3, and I saw a big, round, bright craft.
	It was like, you know a professional camera flash, how bright that can be?
	Sure.
	Well, I'm driving north, and it's matching my speed exactly, riding exactly parallel to me, and it couldn't be more than a few feet away.
	And I'm driving a Mighty Max Mitsubishi, which is a tiny truck.
	And this thing couldn't have been much larger than it, at least it didn't appear to be.
	And, uh, what do you think its intent was?
	I have no idea, but it seemed as if it was flashing.
	It wasn't a flash, though.
	It was a bright light, continuous, incredibly, extremely bright.
	And it was, and now you gotta understand, this was right next to Kennedy Space Center, where they launched the shuttle.
	Ah, yes.
	This is just south of that.
	And, um, I have a family member who works on the shuttle.
	And the strange thing is, is it was riding right next to me.
	And I was, I couldn't even look at it.
	And I did, I got a fleeting glance, but the truth is, I was, I was afraid.
	Sure.
	I'm riding along, slowing down, speeding up.
	It's going right along with me.
	I know for a fact this wasn't a helicopter.
	Well fair seemed like a reasonable response to me to something like that.
	Yeah and I'm a big macho guy and you know I was I was shaking and if even we're talking about it but the correlation immediately was that this could be a government you know craft of some sort or this could be alien don't know can't really determine that however it had a low hum Well, you know, I don't know what to tell you about all this except welcome to the club.
	Yeah.
	Millions and millions of Americans all night tonight I've heard from varying people have seen all kinds of things save one man who's never seen anything and feels lonely.
	Huh.
	I'll tell you what, you know, I'm a pretty skeptical person and my dad Who actually works for other defense industry companies has told me that a lot of the things that we see that the government turns around and says, no, no, no, no, no.
	Well, it's all fact.
	Yeah, the real answer is yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
	Yeah.
	And, you know, I'm sure you already know 90% of the stuff that's out there that you'll see that gets, you know, we get told it's hogwash.
	You know, 90% of that is actually real and true.
	Well... And I know from my own experience that it is.
	Well, there's nothing like being a skeptic and then having it happen to you.
	Exactly.
	I appreciate your call, sir.
	Thank you.
	Yes.
	To be really, really skeptical of this whole thing and then have it happen to you is, uh... Well, I don't know.
	What do you say about that?
	You just have to sort of rearrange your thinking about everything.
	Let's try one more.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello?
	Turn your radio off, please.
	Yeah, no problem.
	Good.
	Is this our bell?
	Yes, it is.
	Sweet.
	Hey, man.
	Let's see.
	I have a request for a guest on your show.
	And that would be?
	Have you heard of Dorial?
	No.
	Well, he translated these emerald tablets of Thoth, the Atlantean.
	I don't know if you've heard of those.
	No, I have not.
	Well, it says in these Emerald Tablets that are supposed to be thousands of years old
	that Thoth actually built one of the great pyramids of Giza in a matter of days.
	Really?
	Yeah, and this guy, Doriel, backs this up.
	And I'm just totally interested in pyramids, and I heard your last couple shows.
	Well, then you're going to enjoy Graham Hancock tomorrow night.
	Oh, really?
	Oh, really.
	And he gets into that?
	Graham Hancock?
	Yeah, I haven't heard of him.
	The pyramids are his life, sir.
	Tune in tomorrow night, Graham Hancock.
	You don't want to miss that, trust me.
	I'm Art Bell.
	From the high deserts.
	That'll do it for this night.
	Ta-ta!

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