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Feb. 4, 2002 - Art Bell

01:50:08

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Dr. Gregory Little - Edgar Cayce and the Mound Builders - Scott Portzline - Nuclear Reactors

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28:32

dr gregory little

47:07

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leonard nimoy

00:35

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thought things were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How have our educational institutions reflected the new realities or are they not yet doing that?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		They have not yet.
		In fact, there is a major battle going on in archaeology and the battle, it's the young folks versus the old folks.
		And you will actually see on some of the documentaries on this, some of the younger archaeologists make the statement that the best thing that can happen is if all the Clovis supporters, who they refer to as the Clovis mafia, if all those people will just simply die.
		They say that would be the best thing for archaeology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but think about what you just said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In order for thinking to change in a field, everybody who's currently thinking out there has to die.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Those people that are thinking it are the ones in control of the money and the academic positions, and they're the ones that write the textbooks, and they just seem to refuse to change.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're ain't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a pretty sad comment.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Boy, no kidding.
unidentified		It is.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		It's very sad.
		And I've been very irritated.
		I've spoken with several archaeologists in this book.
		One of them that I interviewed had taught at Harvard University for 30 years.
		And in the course of an hour interview, I believe he told me that seven or eight times.
		And he had written things about Casey.
		None of those things were true that he put in a textbook.
		It's one of the most widely used textbooks in archaeology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what did you do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Reduce him to tears by the end of this?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		No, he was angry.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		He said, I don't believe a word you're telling me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		He said he'd read the Casey readings, and what he actually read was Edgar Evans Casey's books on Atlantis.
		And Edgar Evans Casey was Edgar Casey's son.
		And it only says it like 20 places in the book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have interviewed him here, yes.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but this guy, the archaeologist at Harvard, thought that Edgar Evans Casey's books on Atlantis were the Edgar Casey readings.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		And when I told him that, he just got angry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		And he said he didn't have time to check any of that out, and he said he wasn't going to change a word in his book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But even with regard to what we now know is archaeological bunk, you're saying it's all still being held up and taught in schools?
		Absolutely.
		Oh, man.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's move to Edgar Casey himself for a second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you give everybody who's not studied Casey an idea of what ancient America was like, according to Casey?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Okay, according to Casey, Casey's history in ancient America really began around 50,000 B.C. or so.
		Casey said that there were people that came here from the continent Mu or Lemuria before it's sound.
		There were people here already.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where was Lemuria located?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Lemuria was somewhere to the west, more like the southwest Pacific.
		Some of the South Pacific Islands, which he specifically named and gave us dates, some of those were mountaintops of Lemuria or Mu.
		He said that they were essentially a brown race, somewhat dark, but they were.
		Yeah, they were also fairly intelligent, but they were very peace-loving.
		And they came here roughly 50,000 B.C., and a lot of the Americas was already settled.
		Then Casey said there was a series of incursions or migrations into the Americas.
		And he gave us dates, places that these people came from.
		He mentioned the South Pacific islands several times.
		He mentioned the West.
		He said they came in in 35,000 B.C. How big was Lemuria compared to, say, I don't know, Australia?
		Casey didn't give as much detail on that as James Churchward did.
		In Casey's story, he did not say how large it was.
		We know it was very large.
		He gave a lot of detail on Atlantis, but not nearly as much on Lemuria.
unidentified		Okay.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		So we really don't know that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many people lived in ancient America?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, Casey didn't give us numbers, but archaeologists actually, and some archaeologists that I trust, actually the Folsoms, Folsom and Folsom tell us the most conservative estimate, that at the time Columbus got here, there were over 57 million people living in the Americas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		And that is accepted.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		That's actually the lowest number that you'll find among even the conservative textbooks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow, that's a lot of people.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		So there are a lot of people here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're, what, 260 million or something like that now, aren't we?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, America's a little over that.
		We're about 265.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so, but still, that's a lot of people.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		It was not a vast, empty continent, as most people think.
		You know, as a child, you might have done the same thing I did.
		I would walk around in the woods and think about it that I'm the first person maybe to see this.
		That's fine.
unidentified		We go to Derby News.
unidentified		This morning at 8.30 on AM 630, WPRO.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Vast unexplored place.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		But the truth is, there were people all over this continent from all the way up to North Canada all the way to Monte Verde.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what sort of were we?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, they were very much like us.
		Actually, the battle of good and evil began then of two different groups.
		Casey's story gets into great detail on that.
		The sons of Belial fought against the children of the law of one.
		They built temples, and one side tried to destroy the other.
		And it really was a good side and an evil side.
		And even before he died in 1945, he said this same battle is going on now and will go on for all time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What proof is there of name those groups again?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		One is the sons of Belial.
		They are the more evil side.
		And then the children of the law of one.
		And those relate, actually, Belial is mentioned in the Bible.
		It's related to Baal, B-A-A-L.
		And it Is a worship of really worship of mankind and oh, pleasure is one of the big things and power and so on.
		And then the pleasure and power.
		That's right.
		And then the children of the law of one are people who believe there is one God and that we are attached to that one God and part of it and that we need to worship this one God and live in peace.
		He said that same thing was going on back then.
		He gave us some real details.
		There was a place near Santa Barbara, Santa Barbara, California, where a temple was built, and the Belial influence literally chased the Children of the Law of One across America several times, and there were a number of battles.
		The Children of the Law of One actually had to hide.
		And there is a tremendous amount of evidence in the archaeological record that there were groups who were actively fighting each other in real ancient history.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Little, not much has changed.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		No, it hasn't.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		In fact, it may just be spiraling a little more seriously now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any way beyond what Casey said that we can understand that this ancient America that you're describing so long ago really existed beyond Casey's words?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, yeah, Casey's.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like what?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, almost everything, these dates Casey's given now, I mean, there's a tremendous amount of information in DNA analysis.
		And I can explain that pretty simply.
		I don't think you have enough time for that before your break, but DNA analysis has essentially shown that all of Casey's migration patterns are true.
		Secondly, we have new digs that have occurred where archaeologists have gone beneath the Clovis layer.
		And that's kind of interesting.
		When the Clovis barrier was broken, archaeologists went back to the sites where they had found Clovis and dug deeper and found more and more layers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, so that everybody understands Clovis, the Clovis layer represents the 9,000-year-old level.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you were to dig down, you're going to get to 9,000 years pretty soon.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, 9,000 B.C., right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And that, so everybody understands what we're talking about.
		That's Clovis, and that's what modern archaeology pins everything on or did.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And the thing is, there's quotes from archaeologists.
		They say, when we hit Clovis, we didn't go any lower because we knew there couldn't be anything there.
unidentified		There was not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Only there was.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Only there was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much deeper do you go than Clovis before you begin finding, well, what would you want to call it?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, they don't have names for these things.
		There are no names whatsoever.
		There's a, like where Clovis was broken, the site of Monteverde, the very day they had this massive press conference.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's your first problem, Doctor.
		We need a name.
		Americans need something they can identify.
		I mean, Lucy, right?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's Lucy, and she tells us everything.
		Clovis, we now know what that is.
		We need a name for this next level.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		They're calling it pre-Clovis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pre-Clovis?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Pre-Clovis, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not good enough.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		I know, because it doesn't really pin it down to anything.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		And the trouble is there's got many other things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's got to have its own name, trust me.
		Doctor, hold on.
		We'll be right back.
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		This is Coast to Coast with Art Bell, Afternoons at 3.
		It's the Dan York Show on WPRO.
		Give him a week and you'll be hooked.
		On AM 630, WPRO.
		We'll be right back.
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People say, well, who cares?
unidentified		You know, if there were people here long, long ago, well, who cares?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What difference does it make?
		Oh, well, it makes a lot of difference, and I understand that a program and a suggestion like this raises a lot of hackles, makes a lot of people angry because it steps on a lot of archaeological, religious, and social toes of all kinds.
		So it drives people absolutely bananas.
		But I just don't see how we can properly evaluate our present situation and our likely future unless we understand what's happened in the past.
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, once again, Dr. Greg Little.
		Dr. Little, talk to me about genetics.
		I want to understand how genetics would prove or disprove or help or whatever, you know, proving what Casey said about ancient America and ancient Americans and that all we've known just isn't true.
		What does genetics tell us and how?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Okay, there's a real specific kind of genetic analysis called mitochondrial DNA analysis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've heard of it, yes.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Okay, mtDNA.
		Now, within almost all of the cells of the body, there are these little organelles called mitochondria, and what they do is they take glucose and turn it into a usable form of energy.
		But mitochondria are not human, and they are probably some sort of a bacteria that developed a symbiotic relationship with us long, long ago.
		Anyway, mitochondria have their own unique DNA.
		Mitochondria are only passed through the female side.
		So that your children, for example, only have your wife's mitochondria, not yours.
		So it really traces the female lineage.
		Now, worldwide, right now, there are 42 major types of mitochondrial DNA.
		And you might have heard of the seven daughters of Eve, that idea, and that we can trace it back to Africa and this one person.
		And all that comes from mitochondrial DNA analysis, which again, it only traces the female lineage.
		With these 42 types of mitochondria, they can take any individual living or dead for that matter and actually trace, figure out what their major type of mitochondria is.
		And they can actually tell when this individual's ancestors left their major group or migrated out from wherever they started.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		It's because of the way mitochondrial DNA mutates.
		It has a pretty steady rate of mutation.
		And it has truly revolutionized virtually all genetic research.
		And this is another area that archaeologists just hate because they've never been trained in it.
		They don't quite understand it.
		And the mitochondrial DNA, the results go against everything they've said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, we're relying on the mutation of myochondrial DNA.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that will how reliably tell us?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, that'll tell us pretty darn reliably about when this individual's ancestors left their major group.
		For example, if their major group was in, say, Asia, and they left there in 50,000 B.C. and they started interbreeding with other groups, based upon a number of factors, we can take an individual who came from that lineage of the people who left Asia in 50,000 B.C. and pretty much pinpoint that.
		We know that then.
		It's a fascinating area of research that, like I say, it's revolutionized virtually all of both archaeology and genetics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How far back does it take us?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		It can go back as far as humanity goes.
		In fact, we can do the same thing with animals.
		They carry mitochondria also.
		So we can, it's.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how far back have they gone with it?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		With humans, about 200,000 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		200,000 years.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		About 200,000.
		And they can actually go back even further.
		And there is some debate about the very beginning of humanity now.
		One of the reasons that they've said, for example, that we all came from Africa is because that's where the oldest remains have been found.
		But that may be changing pretty quickly.
		For example, in, say, Germany, they have found spears 40,000 years old there, intact spear points.
		And recently they found a set of spears 400,000 years old, made by man.
		They don't know if it was modern man or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that'll really screw them up.
unidentified		Oh, that's a good idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		400,000 years.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Now, actually, it's better than radiocarbon dating.
		Part of the problem with American archaeology is they've relied so much on radiocarbon dates.
		And the truth is, radiocarbon dating is only somewhat accurate back to only 50,000 years ago.
		And you won't find many dates in America before 50,000 years ago because radiocarbon dating doesn't go back beyond it.
		I know, it's stupid.
		Well, in terms of reliability percentage factors or confidence levels, how much difference is there between the mitochondrial DNA analysis and the radiocarbon date between wider range, so they're not quite as reliable as mitochondrial DNA is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this is a generally accepted view?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's very accepted.
		This is mainstream.
		Even the archaeologists have to acknowledge that it's true.
		But genetics comes out of some of the more scientific areas within medicine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But how can they acknowledge it's true without acknowledging that?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, they've twisted around the findings to fit into their beliefs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In what manner?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you, here in America, for example, current Native American tribes and ancient remains started being examined when mitochondrial DNA analysis emerged in around 1991 and 92.
		And up to 1996, what they found were four major types here, and they're called ABCD.
		Mitochondria is labeled by letters, A, B, C, D, E, all the way through the alphabet, and then they have different kinds of variations like A, sub 1, and so on.
		Now, the ABCDs all are found in Siberia also.
		A, B, C, and D are found in Siberia.
		So the nomads currently living there have the same type of mitochondria as those in Native Americans.
		And then archaeologists immediately jumped on that and said, see, that proves that what we've been saying all along is true, that they all came across the Bering Straits in 10,000 B.C. or 9,000 B.C. And then all of a sudden in 1997, there's that year again, a different type of mitochondrial DNA called haplogroup X was found in America, which was shocking because haplogroup X wasn't found in that time anywhere in Siberia.
		It has been found now, but it's interesting where it was found.
		Haplogroup X is also found in Israel, very heavily in Israel, and it is found in the ancient Basques in the Pyrenees Mountains.
		And when I say the ancient Basques, in 1999, a group of geneticists went into four Basque cemeteries and took out the remains of nearly 200 people and did mitochondrial DNA analysis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember that.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		And they did that to prove a theory archaeologists have had for many years, and that is, is that all the people that populated Europe, like this horde of barbarians, came rumbling through around the year 5,000, and they came from southwestern Europe, and they're called haplogroup B. And what they found in the ancient Basque remains, not one person was haplogroup V. Not one.
		And it just threw them into a tizzy.
		What they did find was quite a bit of haplogroup X, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they didn't find X in Siberia?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, in 2001, actually, about two weeks before our book went to the printer, haplogroup X was found in the southern Altaic Mountains, which is in the northern Gobi Desert.
		And it was found in a very unique group there.
		And we did make that in the book.
		But basically, if you take Edgar Casey's predictions, it would be found in that area of the Gobi Desert, because Casey said a group migrated there in 10,000 BC.
		And it would also be found in the Basque areas.
		Haplogroup X would be there.
		And it would be found in Israel.
		Some of it would be found in parts of Egypt, particularly ancient Egyptians.
		And Casey would also say that it would be found in the ancient Iroquois.
		Because we've come to the conclusion that haplogroup X is Atlantean mitochondria.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Atlantean, huh?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		It comes from Atlantis.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		The dates on haplogroup X always seem to go back to 10,000 BC when they left wherever their main group was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do a lot on mounds, I know.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are mounds?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're here in America, right?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my gosh, yes.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Most people think they're just little heaps of dirt and they all hold burials, but the truth is they're more than little heaps of earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are they?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, in America, what I think they are are symbols that connect the upper world to the lower world and this world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The upper world to the lower world.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		They're spiritual magic machines.
		There were 200,000 mounds when the Smithsonian very first got involved in investigating mounds.
		There were 200,000 known in America back in the early 1800s.
		There's not nearly that many left today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I assume we've plowed a lot of mounds.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we've plowed them.
		We've used them for up and down the Mississippi River.
		The levees that we have, a lot of the dirt in the levees were taken from mounds near the river.
		Farmers, some of the best dirt you can find, so farmers have flattened it.
		Looters have gone in and taken things out of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do we know these mounds were not natural?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, you can tell that.
		If you actually dig into one yourself, you'll be able to see the piles of dirt where somebody actually dumped a basket load of dirt and then pounded it down.
		You can see the contours of it.
		And then, of course, there's artifacts throughout it.
		Most mounds today, when you find them, if you want to tell if it's a real mound, go there after a rain and just look at the surface.
		Don't dig into it.
		That's probably not legal anyway.
		But just look at the surface.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are these mounds?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		They basically extend from the entire east coast all the way to roughly Texas straight up north.
		There are thousands of them still in existence.
		There are a few in the northwest, but not very many.
		But they're at the entire eastern half of the United States.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whatever it was, it was almost universal across.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		It was universal.
		In fact, the mounds, the more incredible part of the mounds are the earthworks.
		The earthworks here in America are more incredible than the ancient earthworks or ancient buildings erected anywhere in the world.
		They're larger.
		There are more of them and they're complex.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean, earthworks?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Okay, if you take Stonehenge, most people are familiar with Stonehenge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Let's say you take something like Stonehenge, and instead of using stone, you heap up earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		And so you make round circles of earth where the walls are maybe up to 33 feet tall.
		And you make octagons, connect them to circles, and then have a parallel wall, two different walls that are parallel with each other, running 56 miles to another circle and octagon.
		That's actually in Ohio, and a lot of it still remains today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then what were these things, and what were they supposed to represent or do?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		What archaeologists tell us is that they were used for rituals.
		But what they probably were were magic machines.
		These were earthen machines these people used to perform rituals to connect themselves with these other worlds, the spiritual world.
		They were magic machines.
		In fact, the ones in Ohio, the circle and octagon, which still exists today, the largest one in Newark, Ohio, it perfectly predicts the movements of the moon through 18.61 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is beginning to sound a lot like the pyramids at Giza.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely, and that fits into this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Orion's belt is seen in many, many mound alignments in the United States as well as in Central America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Orion, Orion, Orion.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And Orion's belt.
		That's part of this is the connection to Atlantis and Casey.
		The pyramids at Giza and the fact that they were aligned to stars.
		Casey's the first to say that.
		The Hall of Records he talked about.
		He was the first one to discuss that.
		In fact, there's a Hall of Records in Central America, according to Casey.
		And we know the site where it is, but no one has ever found it yet, although Brigham Young University has been looking the past few years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, have they?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		The past five years, Brigham Young has gone to this site in Guatemala, and it's called Piedras Negras.
		There's actually a book by a guy you had on your show about three weeks ago, John Van Aalken.
		And it's called The Lost Hall of Records, and it's about this site at Piedras Negras, Guatemala.
		It has a Hall of Records identical to the one at Giza.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, if we were to get the Hall of Records said to exist beneath the Sphinx, Father's Sphinx, or the one in Central America, what would you imagine, what kind of information would you imagine to be contained therein?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, Casey said real specifically what it was.
		He said there were 24 tablets, and on these tablets was engraved the history of Atlantis from the beginning of time when humans descended into matter and became physical beings until the demise of Atlantis in about 10,014
		B.C. And it tells of this battle between the sons of Belial and the children of the law of one, and it talks about what we really are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they had a kind of something that we in modern America might call a technology, although it was really more like a magic, maybe at that time a natural magic, but today it would be regarded by us, would it not, as magic?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was a form of magic, and their technology was different.
		Casey's story talks about a highly evolved culture that almost destroyed itself and was set back rather drastically.
		They used crystals, and one of the neatest experiments I like to do with people is to darken a room, stand in front of them with two huge crystals, which the crystals are, it's quartz, and rub them together, and you can literally light up a room with it to show people how much energy is inside these crystals.
		And it's a pretty impressive thing.
		Physics understands what it is.
		But if you read Casey's story about it, they use crystals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't understand what it is.
		I have never seen...
		Does it require a specific kind of crystal?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, no.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Actually, even lifesavers work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Lifesavers.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		If you take lifesavers, take a lifesaver, put it in your mouth, put it between your teeth, go into your bathroom, make sure it's totally dark in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		And make sure that your mouth is open enough and crunch that lifesaver and watch the little sparks come out of your mouth, the light.
		Now, that's just a very simple demonstration of what's known as the piezoelectric effect.
		And in physics, again, it's the piezoelectric effect.
		Rubbing crystals causes what's called exoexcitation, and it's the releasing of all those electrons that have been trapped inside of the crystals.
		In fact, they will, what you're seeing is, instead of sparks, you're seeing little tiny balls of light, which in fact are like tiny little plasmas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		And the ancient shaman used them.
		We know how they did it here in the Americas.
		We've actually found the shaman's bags.
		They would take leather pouches and they'd put a bunch of little crystals in there and they'd go into a darkened room and they would grind these things.
		And as they would grind them, the little balls of light would pop out of the leather pouch and it would impress the heck out of people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's energy.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
		It's energy.
		You better believe it is.
		And I've done this in different situations and different people, and I have no way to prove it, but it definitely creates some sort of a mental state in me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do the crystals have to be smooth or shaped in any particular way?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		as long as you could you have to be The watch works by putting pressure on the crystal, and it generates a frequency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And in transmitter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, believe me, in a radio transmitter years ago, before newer technology took over.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Crystals were used to determine a specific frequency, and the size and the width of the crystal, as it was excited, would determine the frequency of the transmitter.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		See, I believe that they had some of this knowledge they had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And part of their belief was a very different way, that's right.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		They believed they could communicate with the spirit world and God with these things.
		And I'm not going to say they could.
		There's a site, for example, in Portsmouth, Ohio.
		Actually, it's on the other side of the river, a circle.
		It's a square with two long extensions, 2,100 feet going each way.
		And we believe that that is the entrance to heaven and a portal to hell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, you want to be sure and catch the right tunnel direction in that one.
		We'll get back to Dr. Greg Little shortly.
		I've got some crystals.
		I don't think I have any lifesavers, though some of you might give that a try.
		Let me know how it works.
		I don't know if I'd like that.
		You know, if you've got cavities, you don't want to think about electrical sparks in there very deeply, but I'd like to give that.
		Some of you out there try and let me know.
		We'll be right back.
		The World Trade Center burned for almost three months, a very, very long time, but not the longest burning fire in the U.S. Find out what blaze has burned a lot longer In the February issue of the After Dark newsletter, you can also read about evidence of UFO activity that's been covered up by NASA and how Dan Aykroyd got involved in the case, plus levitation, nanotechnology, and much, much more.
		It's all in the February issue of the After Dark newsletter.
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unidentified		No matter what time you catch coast-to-coast a.m. with ArtVal, it's always midnight in the desert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcardline, you're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
		This is Ann.
		I want to compliment you on the beautiful song the Crystal Gale has written and dedicated to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, isn't it Dynamite?
unidentified		It's wonderful.
		Art, we love your show.
		I live here in an old farmhouse, and at nighttime, during the quiet hours, I turn on my radio and light my candle stand, fasten my seatbelt, and prepare to take a ride.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're going for a ride.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, Hun.
unidentified		Here she is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is Crystal Gale.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And yes, she sang this one for me, and I guess all of you, all about the program.
unidentified		Night in the desert, shooting stars across the sky.
		This magical journey.
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	Certainly is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
		You're not going to believe what I just did, but I did it.
		Again, we're welcoming WCOA in Petscola, Florida, 1370 on the Dow to the network.
		We're also welcoming live XM Radio to the network as of tonight.
		Live, live, live on the Ask Channel.
		Well, I just went into my bedroom, our bedroom, and we have been blessed with people who have given us crystals over the years, and my wife has always had crystals,
		and so I had a couple big chunks of raw crystal and took it into a dark room, and even lightly striking them together produces a really, really good spark, and it also produces a kind of undefined light, a light that goes beyond the spark.
		I mean, these are serious sparks, really serious sparks, and serious lights.
		It's really very, very cool.
		So if you're blessed to have crystal around, give it a try yourself.
		That's definitely seriously electrical, no question about that.
		But then there's something else, too.
		There's another kind of light with the light of the crystal.
		Now, it's hard to define because you think you're seeing a reflection of all the sparks that are going off, but there's another kind of light there, I'm telling you.
		Oh, that's really wild stuff.
		We'll be right back.
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		Well, that was really, really, really, really cool.
		As I said, Dr. Little, I just tried what you suggested, and it was awesome.
		Absolutely amazing.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		I think you're going to try it right away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, I've got the stuff here, so why not?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		I can give you, if you want to take it a step further, the most spectacular effect is doing it underwater.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Underwater?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Do it in your bathtub.
		Sometime if your bathroom is totally dark, fill the tub full of water.
		Right.
		Go to the, sit on the side of it.
		Don't get in the water, but just sit on the side.
		Put those crystals underwater and rub them under there, and it will light up your entire bathroom.
		As long as you are rubbing those crystals, I don't know exactly what it is.
		It's refraction in the water or something, but it's phenomenal.
		The effect is just phenomenal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, in my mind, I saw two effects.
		I saw all kinds of sparks.
		I mean, not just a spark, but a lot of sparks.
		Number one, because I had a lot of rough edges, you know, these are raw crystals.
		Number two, though, I saw another light that I cannot so easily define that went with it.
		Now, it could have been because of the nature of crystal, a reflection within the crystal.
		I'm not sure.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		I understand what you're saying.
		Actually, technically, those are not sparks.
		The reason you think they're sparks is because you can smell some of the crystal fracturing, and you can see little pieces of it.
		But those are actually just electrons pinging off.
		And when the crystal fractures, when itty-bitty little microscopic fractures occur, electrons pop out.
		And there are little balls of light that are literally plasmas, which is air that takes on the electromagnetic force of the electrons.
		It doesn't last very long with a small crystal.
		But those are actually little tiny plasmas, electrically charged balls of air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, with respect to your lifesaver thing, people are fast-blasting me saying, yes, that does work, but only with window green flavor.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, you can't.
		I was thinking on break that actually it does work with others, but you can't use the breath, the lifesavers breath mints.
		The best ones are the clear lifesavers, the old-fashioned kind, that you can almost see through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
unidentified		Huh.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Huh?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		It's the same basic principle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so then is it we are reasonably then concluding that there's some there may well be some power within a crystal that if directed in some way that we don't know about oh could do all kinds of things like who knows move big things cause things to levitate maybe even move big blocks weighing tons and tons or who knows right well that's
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		what casey said yes uh i'm skeptical of moving stuff but i know we don't know enough about crystals yet and we sure don't know enough about the effects of the electromagnetic fields on the brain uh the natives believed that they were opening up portals with this really that there there were literally doors that's why they constructed these huge earth works in shape so they could open up doorways so
		that these other beings or other forces could move through the portals from their spiritual area to this physical world what do you understand about the uh function of the pyramids in egypt uh according to casey they were built to align with uh the stars and to point to specific places in the stars and that they were there to house information from the uh the atlanteans uh
		beyond the that I believe that Buval is correct and and Hancock who I know you have on later this week I do yes I see you watch very very carefully yes a graham is going to be on yes I believe they are correct in that it does point to the year roughly 10,500
		BC which is the year that Casey that's the time frame Casey said that the Atlanteans went there As well as to the Yucatan and to the Iroquois lands.
		But I think they're correct, but I don't know how much further they can take that.
		I don't believe they're a power source.
		I have been in the Great Pyramid and been in every little area you can be in it, crawled around for seven hours, which is enough time for me.
		Yeah, I just don't think that it's a power source.
		I don't think that it's a beacon or anything else.
		I think it's there to serve as permanent information for us to tap.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that if we got to this Hall of Records, it would contain information that would allow us to begin to understand the way these ancient powers were used?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Yeah, I do.
		I think it would be there.
		I think it would be that we would see this crystal plays a really key role in Casey's history of Atlantis.
		And he says that the power within a crystal can be used for good purposes and bad purposes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounds like all power.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And that within Atlantis, the split between these two groups, the sons of Belial and the Children of Law of One, the Sons of Belial wanted to use the power for destructive force, and the children of Law of One wanted to use it to get closer to God.
		And the two sort of had this philosophical political battle, and actually they destroyed their own place.
		But I think we would find that information there within the Hall of Records.
		Absolutely.
		And I do believe that the Hall of Records, somewhat like Casey has described it, does exist.
		I'm pretty sure of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, then, as of now, nothing has changed.
		You know, the old law of one folks and the other folks, and they destroyed themselves.
		And I was referring to understanding our past as it relates to, you know, analyzing our present and our future.
		I wonder if there's any way our future can be changed or if we are destined to become, I don't know if victim is the right word, but victims of history repeating itself endlessly.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		In 9,000 years, people could talk about a great land, call it America, and it could be a myth to everyone that's around at the time.
		History, I don't think history is determined.
		We can change it.
		But just like Plato said several thousand years ago, many, many lands have been destroyed over and over.
		Civilizations have come and they've gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any indication, this might be way too specific, that any previous civilization has ever benefited from information held from another previous civilization?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, benefited from, well, yeah, lithic technology, the making of weapons, absolutely.
		Okay.
		That's one thing.
		I mean, the discovery of certain kinds of weapons, sure, we copy that stuff.
		I think a lot of our modern some of the I call it modern, but some of the irrigation techniques that we use today, some of the like the aqueducts of Rome and so on, we have borrowed a lot of that from these lost, literally long disappeared, advanced ancient civilizations.
		We have copied a lot of this.
		But beyond that, we've taken some of their philosophy.
		I don't think we've learned anything that changes us deeply, you know, like right and wrong and about destruction.
		Well, I don't think we learned those lessons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right and wrong probably never have changed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would just make that guess.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		I don't think that right and wrong could change, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		However, if an ancient civilization had technology, and there's so much that points to the fact that they had to, they just simply could not have done what they did, or we don't understand how they could have without some sort of technological ability that we don't have or understand today.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're pretty limited today in our view in the past.
		And then we have these people that have on these blinders or these glasses that are rose-colored or colored whatever they want it to be.
		So they're not really giving us the truth.
		That's part of the problem, our perception of truth.
		It's like seeing these literally thousands of mounds here in America.
		Some people see them as little heaps of earth, and they won't go and look at the gigantic ones that are clearly there as some other function.
		And in some cases, they're right in their own backyard.
		I mean, they're within miles of people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's in Ohio?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, it's not just Ohio, but Ohio has, we took a tour to mounds back in October.
		We took 105 people to mounds.
		We started at Newark, Ohio at the Circle and Octagon.
		And here's what's really interesting about this, that the bus drivers, of the two buses that we had, one of the bus drivers lived 20 miles from there.
		He had never been there.
		He had never heard of it.
		He walked up this 14-foot high wall and looked inside one of the most beautiful golf courses you'll ever see.
		And inside this golf, the golf course is built inside the circle and octagon.
		There is a 20-acre perfect circle, and the circle is formed by a 14-foot wall of earth.
		And it's attached to a 50-acre perfect octagon.
		And inside the octagon, there are eight square mounds at each of the points of the octagon.
		Now, the guy was an avid golfer.
		He immediately made a, this bus driver, he immediately made a tea time for two weeks from then.
		But he sat down and told me, he said, you know, I didn't have any idea any of this existed.
		And he lived there his entire life.
		But that thing is phenomenal.
		And the only way to understand it, you can even see pictures of it, and you don't understand the magnitude of it, you could get several stone henges or great pyramids to sit inside of that thing.
		And you'd still have space left over.
		In Louisiana, Poverty Point, Louisiana, the 11 miles of the semi-octagon embankment at Poverty Point, which was built in 2,500 B.C., those 11 miles of earthworks would fill the Great Pyramids 32 times.
		And there is a giant eagle effigy there, an eagle mound, where the eagle from wingtip to wingtip is over 720 feet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All of this so long B.C., now you say here that these appear to have been used, or this thing in Ohio near Portsmouth, seems to have used it.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Others were in Portsmouth.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		No, right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It seems to have been used as a portal, you said, to heaven and hell.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty wild stuff.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		No kidding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, what did they know about heaven and hell, B.C.?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, they had their idea.
		We know they had their idea about that.
		The modern Native Americans carry some of the exact same legends that go back to antiquity.
		We also know by the way that they've constructed these earthworks and mounds, although what I'm calling mounds are not always mounds.
		Sometimes they are huge geometrical earthen shapes that the magnitude of which, the walls can be up to 33 feet tall in these things.
		But anyway, we do know that they funneled people, they channeled the movement of people through these parallel walls, and they'd take them through points.
		My wife likes to call the one that I think leads to hell the eyedropper, because it gets narrower and narrower to where only one person can move between these two little points.
		And that, I think, is the portal to hell.
		I think that's the way out to hell.
		And that's actually on the Kentucky side of the Ohio River, Portsmouth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you believe that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or why do you believe that they believed that then?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, we know, why do I believe it?
		Yes, sir.
		Basically, it's from studying what the modern Native Americans know and what we know about some Native American beliefs when the very first Europeans came here.
		Some of that was written down.
		We know that when the first settlers and the first priests and so on came in, those that made friends with the Native Americans found out a lot of their spiritual beliefs that had been handed down from antiquity.
		They did believe in a heaven and a hell.
		They literally did believe in a happy hunting ground, which the Cheyenne believe literally is the star of Sirius.
		But anyway, they do believe in the literal existence of heaven and hell.
		They think heaven is a specific star.
		Hell is banishment from that star.
		And that belief is still held by many Native American tribes.
		And it's consistent with other religious beliefs, for that matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you do believe that there was and was prior to Christ's time on earth a heaven and hell?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, that's, yeah, yeah, I do.
		Yeah, I have to just admit point blank.
		I'm pretty religious.
		I guess I shouldn't say religious.
		I'm pretty spiritually oriented.
		And I believe that everything that we decide is essentially spiritual in its nature.
		It has an effect on us, an effect on our inner self and who we really are.
		Every decision we make.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, there are many Christians, and I hear from them, believe me, I hear from them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, they think that man's only been around on earth for, what, 6,000 years?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're wrong.
		I don't know what else to say.
		Most of them, there aren't many of these ultra-fundamentalists.
		They may be loud, and they may make a lot of noise, but there's not that many of them.
		And there's nowhere in the Bible that says man's been around 6,000 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It may well be that you don't meet a lot of them, Dr. Blake.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I meet some of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can assure you, there are quite a few, if I go by email, percentages.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, You just said they're loud, so maybe it's disproportionate, but I'm telling you, I hear from a lot of them.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wouldn't doubt it a bit.
		You'd be a focal point for a lot of them because you bring a lot of people on that have ideas that they believe go against their beliefs.
		See, I don't think anything I say goes against fundamentalism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'd be one of those people.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		But one of which people?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One of the aforementioned people that challenge their beliefs.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
		But I don't generally hear from them.
		I don't get challenged that much by them.
		And I've been around quite a while doing this.
		I've had very few.
		In fact, I've had fundamentalists after I have talked with them.
		And it's not just that these ideas go against their beliefs.
		I do believe that everything is spiritual.
		And I do believe that there is a hell, though I don't accept their vision of what it may be.
		And I think there's a heaven, too, although I don't accept the vision that they may have of heaven.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold tight.
		Actually, it would be interesting to understand what your vision of those two locations would be.
		I'm always interested in what people think about that.
		I've had my own thoughts about it.
unidentified		Heaven.
		Hell.
		What would they be?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No single thing.
		They couldn't be any single thing.
		They have to be as individual as all of you little snowflakes out there, right?
		I'm Art Bell from the high desert.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
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		Two warlords in northern Afghanistan say they are ready to withdraw from Mazari Sharif and form a new security force.
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		Democratic Senator Joseph Biden of Delaware warns the fate of Afghanistan might be at stake.
		He's urging President Bush to reconsider and allow U.S. troops to take part in the international security force.
		And the United States will have to take the lead, and if we don't, I don't believe anyone else will.
		Senator Biden spoke yesterday to a group at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.
		The managing editor of the Wall Street Journal says he wants to address the concerns of the kidnappers who are holding reporter Daniel Pearl in Pakistan.
		The editor has written an open letter asking to begin a dialogue with the kidnappers.
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unidentified		From the Kingdom of Nye, this is Coast to Coast with Art Bell on WPRO.
		The Red Sox return this spring as Hope Springs Eternal on your radio home of Boston Red Sox Baseball.
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		Some build in the morning when I'm astray.
		I'm gonna open up your gate and maybe tell you about the drug how she gave me life,
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		Thank you.
		make a do not touch my head Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
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		This is Coast to Coast AM with our bell from the Kingdom of Die.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why should we be interested in all this?
		Well, because it's our history.
		Your history, my history, if it's all true.
		It's our history.
		And I would say it's something we ought to know about.
		What do you think?
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		A message from the Internal Revenue Service working to put service first.
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		Once again, Dr. Greg Little.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Dr. Little, I should take a moment out and at least promo your book, which is called Mound Builders, Edgar K.C.'s Forgotten History of Ancient America.
		And is the book available?
		I know it's available, obviously, from ARE, and I've got a toll-free number here, which is 1-800-723-1112.
		That's an easy number.
		1-800-723-1112.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		I'd like to add there that they are only open during normal business hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Non-Ethos.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about other places?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Amazon.
		You've actually got a link on your website or Amazon.
		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right.
		These mound builders who thought there was a heaven and hell, you mentioned something about.
		Just out of curiosity, you need not answer.
		You think there is a heaven and hell.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think it is?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've stated pretty clearly in a number of books, including this one, including the mound book.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		And I actually have a scientific explanation for it that has made sense to a lot of people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Try me.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Are you familiar with the electromagnetic energy spectrum?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I certainly am.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Most people aren't.
		They think that if you can't see something, that it must be in another dimension.
		And I've had that discussion with lots of UFO believers.
		And just because you can't see something doesn't mean there's something there, like the radio waves around us.
		But anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, if radio and television waves were visible, it would be like dodging it all the time.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, actually, we'd be blind.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		All we could hear are lights all around us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly right.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		But anyway, I believe that the electromagnetic energy spectrum is the reality spectrum.
		And I know that we are close to in the middle of it, and about 5% of the physical world and the light within the physical world rests in the visible light range.
		And the 95% outside of it, I think, represents the two spiritual realms, higher and lower.
		On the far end, one end going up to cosmic rays and what I like to call stellar nurseries where Stars are born, and actually, energy appears to be created.
		I think that is heaven.
		And the other end, where energy comes to a complete standstill, I believe that is hell.
		And energy would come to a complete standstill when actually in a black hole.
		Theoretically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not a physicist, but let's see.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		And I can't tell you that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A black hole I know swallows up light and stars and all matter that it encounters and just increases its density, its thought with this consumption, right?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		And light cannot escape it.
		That's why it's called a black hole.
		And it would be as dense as dense could be in the center of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So where energy would come to a stop would be a black hole, which would be hell.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Which would represent hell, right?
		And actually, there's a tradition for this.
		And I didn't.
		This idea, I've always been interested in this electromagnetic energy spectrum.
		And Carl Jung, actually, both Carl Jung and John Keel, who was author of the Mothman Prophecies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Had him on the show.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Keel, I've talked to Keele a number of times and written about him quite a lot.
		Keel was the second person to say that UFOs come from the electromagnetic energy spectrum.
		The first person, actually, was Carl Jung.
		And Jung's last book was called Flying Saucers, a Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Sky.
		It was published in 1959.
		And Keel, sorry, Jung actually said that he believed that UFOs and these intelligences, whatever they are, were archetypal forces that came from different ends of the EM spectrum.
		And that is where I initially got the idea.
		Then I stumbled upon Kiel and basically built upon that idea, then studied some of the ancient books, particularly the Hebrew, it's called Enoch 3, the Hebrew book of Enoch.
		And in that, the descriptions of the little gray creatures that are called the watchers, yes, they take, that's actually in 3 Enoch, and there's a description of them.
		But they take them to this place where they rotate this craft that they carry souls in, and they push the souls through this gate.
		And once the souls go through the gate, they spiral down and they can see out.
		This is all in that ancient book.
		The souls can see out, but it's dense.
		They can hear nothing.
		They can't move.
		There is no light and so on.
		And the description just fits it to a T. Hell.
		Yeah.
		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really interesting about souls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But then that is a continued, albeit horrible, but a continued existence of some sort which would lend itself to the concept that energy has not really exactly died.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		No, it doesn't.
		Energy, remember, energy can neither be destroyed nor created.
		It can only change form.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, but you led us in that direction when you talked about the entrance to a black hole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it wouldn't exactly be dead.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		I tell you what really is kind of a depressing belief, and I was depressed for a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it is when I think about it.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		I came to believe that.
		But what really saved me was the newest, at least I won't call it research, but speculations by Stephen Hawking and others that shows us that energy that goes into a black hole doesn't necessarily stay there forever.
		There's an outer shell that appears around the black hole where energy comes from.
		And my vision of this is like a cosmic cleansing in there.
		That some sort of purified energy, everything that goes into a black hole eventually comes out, and it's different somehow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe we could call it a purgo hole.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Maybe.
		Yeah.
		Purgatory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Well, hmm.
		And then what about the other side?
		You said the old ones believed Orion.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, they believed the Cheyenne.
		Now, all these different groups had different beliefs.
		I had a Cheyenne, actually he was the Arrow priest of the Cheyenne tribe stay with us for a month back in 1990.
		And during that month, one night we went out and he just pointed, I asked him, we were talking about heaven.
		And he went out and pointed to it, the happy hunting ground.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		So we have many descriptions of heaven.
		You told us what you thought hell was.
		Very interesting.
		What do you think heaven is?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		I think heaven is where energy is created.
		It's a stellar nursery.
		Cosmic rays at their most energetic, at where all energy literally is spewed forth, which is in a...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not bad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so then you believe that souls continue to exist in this horrific manner in a perga hole.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think they can.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		I think it...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about when a soul goes to heaven?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		I think it's just close to creation.
		And I don't think we can really conceive of it.
		Our minds are so limited.
		We're just so narrow and so limited we can't conceive of what it would be like to just be pure energy.
		And maybe the closest we get is like people when they have a near-death experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's almost like you're saying pure free energy versus energy in a kind of a hellish prison.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, okay.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you think about it, in these bodies that we have, my mother was just diagnosed with cancer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it's...
		But anyway, in these bodies, we got energy imprisoned in these bodies.
		That's the whole idea that Edgar Casey was talking about, that we are literally souls trapped in physical matter, and we made this choice to come here.
		And the problem is that we don't understand that we are energy trapped in physical matter, and we make the choice.
		We made the choice to do this, and unfortunately, once we made that choice, we keep coming back again and again until we get out of here, until we escape the trap.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that the soul is a prized possession fought over by whatever rules the good and evil side?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that a yes or a yes?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Is that a yes?
		I'm not sure what you're visualizing.
		They're like demons and little beings and so on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Demons.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I thought so.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		That was a joke.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God, the devil, Lucifer, whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, rulers of kingdom up there, kingdom down there.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		I think souls have value, of course.
		Don't you?
		Those people that call in that thump the Bible, are they not trying to control souls?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely, yes.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		And obviously, there's some value to the souls.
		I worked in prisons for a long time and still do.
		I try to stay at them as much as possible.
		And if a person doesn't believe evil exists, if they go to work in prisons for 25 years, they will see some real evil sooner or later.
		And there are people that, there's a saying out of the Bible, it's actually in Proverbs, and it's misery loves company.
		That's actually out of Proverbs.
		And I think that evil likes to create more of itself because misery loves company.
		And people ask me all the time, why do they do this?
		And I say the best answer I know is the simplest, and it is, misery loves company.
		These are miserable people, many of whom cannot escape their trap.
		And the only thing left for them is to bring everybody else into the same trap.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really, you know, in many ways, I mean, you're saying everything that would support what a fundamentalist says short of saying what a fundamentalist says.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't believe.
		I think fundamentalists are off track.
		They are fundamentally deluded.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe so, but the two of you, you and Sunday.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		That's why I get along with them.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I can see why you do, because you virtually are agreeing with them right up until some.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Hindus believe the same sort of stuff.
		That's interesting in this.
		Hindus believe the same basics.
		And a part of Islam, I don't want to talk much about Islam, but a part of Islam has very similar beliefs.
		It's just whoever the messenger is.
		That seems to be the big difference in all this.
		And to me, that's not the real issue with some of this anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what event do you think would have to take place for history to stop repeating itself and for the good and evil forces, I suppose that's a matter of perspective, we're calling the good and evil forces to not destroy themselves and the world and civilization all over again.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, what event do I...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was afraid you were going to say that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't either.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		I do not believe that we have the solution to all problems.
		The problems are man-made based somewhat upon the nature of this physical world we're in.
		But I don't think we can solve all problems.
		They are beyond us.
		It's like, how would you solve what's going on in the Middle East, which has been going on back into history from what we know as the beginning of time?
		And it still goes on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It seems to be squarely on course with biblical prophecy.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, I think biblical prophecy simply mirrors what was going on back then.
		And it's kind of like an inevitable outcome.
		It's like a chess match where you can see 20 moves into the future and tell what's going to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you see, Casey should have had some comments on all of this.
		He did.
		In other words, are we all but puppets on a string acting out a larger play?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Great.
		Imagine that there is a larger play, but each one of us, we're not puppets.
		Every one of us has true freedom of choice.
		We can choose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		But at the same time, the ending is kind of known, which is paradoxical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is, isn't it?
unidentified		It's quite paradoxical.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		I have been in situations within prisons where things were out of control, and I knew what was going to happen.
		But if you, what the ending would be.
		But if you actually would talk to some of the inmates within the prison.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long did you work in prisons?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, I still do.
		I have programs within prisons in 42 different states.
		And I've been in the prison system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that how you began doing work in prisons?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Actually, my very beginning was in the field of psychopharmacology, basic animal research, searching for the site of action of various drugs within the brain.
		And at the time, I was an atheist, very unspiritual in every way, shape, and form.
		Believed that when you're dead, you're dead, and that was that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you essentially experimenting on prisoners?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		No, animals.
		At the time, I was strictly doing lots of research on animals.
		Thousands of rats, cats, mice, you name it, but animals.
		I never gave drugs to prisoners or anything like that.
		No.
		And then I went to work within the prison system second time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In what capacity?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		I ran drug and alcohol treatment programs and then worked for the Federal Bureau of Prisons as a consultant and then worked in mental health in prisons and then from 1990 to the present have spread a specific treatment program that I helped design what's called moral recognition therapy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you seen people like Manson's?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've seen interviews with Manson.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		I've got Manson's MMPI in my office here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is an MMPI?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		It's a psychological test.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, then maybe you could tell me something.
		With the interviews I've seen with Manson, he is, when you look and listen to him, the closest thing I can personally describe as something that hits me as pure evil.
		Pure de-evil.
		I mean, straight down the line evil.
		Now, maybe he has his better moments, I don't know.
		But when I've seen him, oh my God, to listen to this man speak, he's in a different world.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, they are in a different world.
		But even these, if you look at some of the pictures of even Hitler, those movies, you see him being nice sometimes to children and animals.
		In his moments of weakness, Hitler was occasionally nice to children and animals.
		But I think the essence of Hitler was he chose to be evil.
		So did Nansen.
		Although, in their point of view, it's not evil.
		Not in their point of view.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, but I can assure you, boy, watching him, no question about it.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a diagnosis of those people, and it's antisocial personality disorder.
		It's also known as a psychopath and a sociopath.
		All those terms mean the same thing.
		And it's on a scale from the most extreme are these serial murderers.
		They're the worst of the worst.
		And the worst ones with not Manson, you can tell is evil.
		The worst ones are the ones that you can't tell they're evil.
		They pretend to be your friend.
		And when they get you in a position where they can take advantage of you, it's too late.
		You'll never see it coming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me tell you, there are a lot of people out there who believe that people of that sort are, and you will not agree with this, possessed by demons.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't believe they're possessed by demons.
		No.
		I have seen some things that would lead me to indicate that there may be such a thing as demons, but I don't believe they're possessed by demons.
		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
		Now, you just surprised me.
		You've done research indicating or leading you to believe there might be demons.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		I do believe, yes, within that electromagnet.
		Carl Jung believed it.
		Kiel talked about it.
		I have.
		Yes.
		Yeah, I do believe there is energy forms, negative energy forms that take on specific shapes.
		The Native Americans called them tricksters, and there were levels of tricksters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so what do you think is what's a demon?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		They are energy forms designed to mislead you, to make you choose in certain directions, in directions you should not choose.
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		Just like, you know, Edgar Casey's beginning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And do they have a boss?
dr gregory little ▲ ● ▼		A boss.
		Maybe at one end of the...
		I think they're being pulled by one end of the electromagnetic energy spectrum.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on, Doctor.
unidentified		So, so close.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it's just that little inch of difference between the good doctor here and fundamentalists.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really interesting.
unidentified		Being pulled.
unidentified		Do they have a boss?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, but being pulled by one side.
		Well, who's directing that side anyway?
		Not a big difference here.
		Not a really big difference.
		I'm Art Bell from the high desert.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		What we do is I'm waiting by your side.
		You've been high school.
		You always trust your blues and love.
		You got me on my heels.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've known Dan Aykroyd since Saturday Night Live, the Blues Brothers and the House of Blues.
		But did you know he's got a deep interest in UFOs?
		You can read about Dan in the February issue of the After Dark newsletter.
		You'll find out about his interest in the NASA UFO cover-up.
		And yes, there is evidence that UFO activity has been seen at NASA.
		Also, read about the future of nanotechnology, real-life stories of levitation.
		Find out who tried to levitate the Pentagon.
		Yes, the Pentagon.
		It's all in the February issue of the After Dark newsletter.
		If you haven't subscribed yet, it's a good time to get on board.
		Call right now.
		1-888-727-5505.
		And you'll get two free issues, 14 for the price of 12.
		That number again, 1-888-727-5505.
		Or subscribe online at artbell.com.
		Hit the library link to the secure server to order the one and only After Dark newsletter.
unidentified		Art Bell welcomes a variety of interesting guests to his program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some are names you may not know.
		Others are names you know very well.
		This is Leonard B. Moy.
		Leonard, welcome to the program.
leonard nimoy ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
leonard nimoy ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
		We have such a short time that I feel obligated to literally pummel you with questions.
		Okay, Girl, how much chance do you think there really is that we will be contacted?
leonard nimoy ▲ ● ▼		There are something like four billion stars in our galaxy alone, and there are billions of other galaxies.
		Each of those stars are potential suns just like ours.
		And that means that if one out of every million of those stars has planets around it, and one out of every million of those has some kind of life planet, then the numbers tell us that the chances are very, very great that there is life out there someplace.
unidentified		Newstop Radio 630 WPRO Providence from ABC News.
		I'm Dorothy McIntyre.
		There are two new pleas for the release of kidnapped American reporter Daniel Pearl.
		One plea comes from his wife.
		The other comes from his employers at the Wall Street Journal.
		In an open letter, the paper's managing editor, Paul Steiger, begins, I know the national movement for the restoration of Pakistani sovereignty is very serious and wants others to know about its movement.
		These pleas are being released because there has been no communication from the kidnappers since last Wednesday.
		He pleads with the abductors to send the next email to the account of one of Danny's close friends or a private phone line of one of these friends.
		Daniel Pearl has been missing now for 13 days.
		Jeffrey Kaufman, ABC News, Islamabad.
		Some scary moments for passengers on Delta Flight 1642 last night.
		It took off from Denver, bound for Salt Lake City.
		It returned to Denver about an hour later and was evacuated after a suspicious note was found on board.
		This man was one of the 56 passengers.
		One of the agents, undercover agents, on the plane, kind of took control, went up to the front, made sure no one was going into the overhead bins, making sure everyone was sitting down.
		And basically, they got us home or back here as fast as they could.
		Passengers say the pilot announced the note contained a bomb threat.
		A bomb threat forced a Northwest jetliner flying from Cancun to Detroit to make an emergency landing shortly after takeoff yesterday.
		Northwest Flight 1852 left Cancun, returned about a half hour later.
		The passengers and crew were evacuated safely.
		The plane was searched.
		No explosives were found.
		Lawmakers on Capitol Hill say if former Enron Chairman Kenneth Lay won't testify voluntarily, he will be forced to do so.
		A Senate committee will vote today on whether to demand that Lay appear.
		You're listening to ABC News.
		Did you know that vitamin C does much more than support your immune system?
		Friends, it's Larry King with remarkable news.
		Scientists have developed a revolutionary vitamin C called Ester C. Ester C is the future of C. It's a unique, patent, and non-acidic vitamin C. I take Ester C every day.
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		Ester C. At Vitamin World stores and everywhere vitamins are sold.
		Hi there.
		It's me, your friendly eBay question and answer man.
		Here's a good question.
		I'm naturally wary of my fellow men.
		How do I know a seller is legit?
		Well, you may be wary of folks in your town.
		Here in eBay, Ville, trusting is a piece of cake.
		Check a seller's feedback rating to see comments from completed transactions.
		Then decide if they're worthy of your trust, and more importantly, your cash.
		At eBay, feedback ratings help ensure fair dealing.
		eBay, the world's online marketplace.
		Happy hunting.
		Defense Secretary Donald Runsfeld says American forces should apologize if innocent people were killed in that raid two weeks ago in Afghanistan.
		Runsfeld says friendly forces could have been mixed in with unfriendly forces who fired first.
		An investigation is underway.
		Do you need a home heart starter?
		ABC's Daria Albinger reports the medical community is divided over the issue.
		They have them on airplanes, in shopping malls and casinos, and they've saved a lot of lives.
		So why not have a defibrillator at home?
		Some doctors say it's time for it, comparing them to common safety devices like smoke detectors.
		Others say that's just the point, arguing that a lot of those alarms don't have fresh batteries and that the time spent running to get the device and using it could be spent calling 911.
		The most compelling argument against it may come from Dr. Arthur Kaliman of Emory University, who says having a defibrillator at home could cause people to ignore less glamorous but proven preventative measures.
		In his words, why give up cheeseburgers when old Sparky's under the couch?
		Daria Albinger.
		ABC News.
		A Northwest Airlines jumbo jet turned back to the Philippine capital, Manila, yesterday.
		After having engine problems on its way to Japan, the plane landed safely at the airport.
		Michael Jordan's wife, Juanita, has withdrawn a divorce petition she filed last month.
		They will try to reconcile.
		They've been married for 12 years and have three children.
		This is ABC News.
	In this time of need, the American Red Cross is profoundly grateful for your generous outpouring of support.
	A long period of uncertainty and recovery awaits us all.
	Please maintain your resolve to donate blood.
	Call 1-800-GIVE-LIFE to schedule an appointment.
	Please be persistent.
	The need for blood will continue in the days, weeks, and months ahead.
	Call 1-800-GIVE-LIFE.
	Together, we can save a life.
	I'm Dorothy McIntyre, ABC News.
	Southern New England depends on WPRO's exclusive AccuWeather forecast.
	Increasing wind overnight, low near 20, wind chill near zero.
	Tuesday, cold and windy with plenty of sun, high near 30.
	Tuesday, night, clear to partly cloudy and brisk, low 22.
	With WPRO's exclusive AccuWeather on Reggie Love.
	You can depend on AccuWeather at News Talk Radio 630, WPRO.
	Don Soa's Money Talk, weeknight 66.
	I say money can't buy happiness.
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	The Lure of the Lyra, the romance of the rubles.
	Here, New England's longest-running financial show.
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	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly is, and we're about to go to the phones.
		That means all of you with Dr. Greg Little.
		We're talking about Edgar Casey and what once was here in America in the world, for that matter.
		And what once was is not what most archaeologists think is the way it happened.
		But it just so happens that most of the evidence, if you've been listening carefully tonight, points directly toward another truth, if you can handle it.
		Increasingly, that truth is becoming self-evident.
		If you have ever in your life wanted a real downtown, bang-up, first-class, going to see into deep space kind of telescope, then the time to listen very carefully would be right now.
		I have a sponsor on the coast of Oregon, Harden Optical.
		And, you know, who knows how long they'll be here.
		I'm so thankful they're here.
		But while this opportunity is here, they have two telescopes that are priced for the average person.
		But, oh, man, the performance of these things.
		They're six inches in diameter and eight inches in diameter.
		They're gigantic.
		They're on wood bases.
		The only way you can really know how big they are, other than my telling you the UPS guy probably collects a lot of hernias trying to get them to doors.
		They're like caskets when they come.
		They're gigantic, is to go to their website and look at one of them.
		They're at forthenightsky.com.
		That's F-O-R.
		The night skyallrun together.com.
		Forthenightsky.com.

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