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Feb. 4, 2002 - Art Bell

01:50:07

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Dr. Gregory Little - Edgar Cayce and the Mound Builders - Scott Portzline - Nuclear Reactors

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	Thought things were.
	How have our educational institutions reflected the new realities, or are they not yet doing that?
	They have not yet.
	Really?
	In fact, there is a major battle going on in archaeology.
	Oh, I bet.
	And the battle, it's the young folks versus the old folks.
	And you will actually see on some of the documentaries on this, some of the younger archaeologists make the statement that the best thing that can happen Is if all the Clovis supporters, who they refer to as the Clovis Mafia, if all those people will just simply die, they say that would be the best thing for archaeology.
	Yeah, but think about what you just said.
	In order for thinking to change in a field, everybody who's currently thinking out there has to die.
	Those people that are thinking it are the ones in control of the money and the academic positions, and they're the ones that write the textbooks, and they just seem to refuse to change.
	Well, that's a pretty sad comment.
	Boy, no kidding.
	It is.
	It's very sad.
	And I've been very irritated.
	I've spoken with several archaeologists in this book.
	One of them that I interviewed had taught at Harvard University for 30 years.
	And in the course of an hour interview, I believe he told me that seven or eight times.
	And he had written things about Cayce.
	None of those things were true that he put in a textbook.
	It's one of the most widely used textbooks in archaeology.
	So what'd you do?
	Reduce him to tears by the end of this?
	No, he was angry.
	He said, I don't believe a word you're telling me.
	I see.
	He said he'd read the Cayce readings, and what he actually read was Edgar Evans Cayce's books on Atlantis, and Edgar Evans Cayce was Edgar Cayce's son, and it only says it like 20 places in the book.
	I have interviewed him here, yes.
	Yeah, but this guy, the archaeologist at Harvard, thought that Edgar Evans Casey's books on Atlantis were the
	Edgar Casey readings.
	And when I told him that, he just got angry.
	I see.
	And he said he didn't have time to check any of that out and he said he wasn't going to change a word in his book.
	But even with regard to what we now know is archaeological bunk, you're saying it's all still being held up and taught in schools?
	Absolutely.
	Oh, man.
	Absolutely.
	Alright, let's move to Edgar Cayce himself for a second.
	Can you give everybody who's not studied Cayce An idea of what ancient America was like according to Cayce?
	Okay, according to Cayce.
	Cayce's history in ancient America really began around 50,000 BC or so.
	Cayce said that there were people that came here from the continent Mu or Lemuria before it sank.
	There were people here already.
	Where was Lemuria located?
	Lemuria was somewhere to the west, more like the southwest Pacific.
	Some of the South Pacific Islands, which he specifically named and gave us dates, some of those were mountaintops of Lemuria or Mu.
	He said that they were essentially a brown race.
	Uh, some went dark, but they were.
	Would make sense.
	Yeah.
	They were also, um, fairly intelligent, but they were very peace loving and they came here, uh, roughly 50,000 BC.
	And a lot of the Americas was already settled.
	Then Casey said there was a series of incursions or migrations into the Americas.
	And he gave us, uh, dates, places that these people came from.
	He mentioned the South Pacific, uh, Island several times.
	He mentioned the West.
	He said they came in in 35,000 BC.
	How big was Lemuria compared to say, I don't know, Australia?
	Casey didn't give as much detail on that as James Churchward did.
	In Casey's story, he did not say how large it was.
	We know it was very large.
	He gave a lot of detail on Atlantis, but not nearly as much on Lemuria.
	Okay.
	So we really don't know that.
	All right.
	Go ahead.
	Uh, lived in ancient America.
	Well, Casey didn't give us numbers, but archaeologists actually, and some archaeologists that I trust, uh, actually the Folsoms, Folsom and Folsom tell us the most conservative estimate, that the time Columbus got here, there were over 57 million people living in the Americas.
	Wow!
	And that is accepted, that's actually the lowest number that you'll find, uh, among even the conservative textbooks.
	Wow, that's a lot of people still.
	There are a lot of people here.
	Um, we're, what, 260 million or something like that now, aren't we?
	Yeah, well, America's a little over that.
	We're about 265.
	Okay, so, but still, that's a lot of people.
	It was not a vast, empty continent, as most people think.
	You know, as a child, you might have done the same thing I did.
	I would walk around in the woods and think, oh, I don't think I've ever been here.
	That I'm the first person maybe to see this.
	I went to the airport and I was about to leave for the airport. I was in the plane and I
	was in the airport and I was in the plane and I was in the plane and I was in the plane.
	I was in the plane and I was in the plane and I was in the plane and I was in the plane
	and I was in the plane and I was in the plane and I was in the plane and I was in the plane
	and I was in the plane and I was in the plane and I was in the plane and I was in the plane
	The Sons of Belial fought against the Children of the Law of One.
	They built temples and one side tried to destroy the other, and it really was a good side and an evil side.
	Even before he died in 1945, he said, this same battle is going on now and will go on for all time.
	What proof is there?
	Name those groups again.
	One is the sons of Belial, they are the more evil side, and then the children of the Law
	of One.
	And those relate, actually Belial is mentioned in the Bible, it's related to Baal, B-A-A-L.
	And it is a worship of, really worship of mankind and pleasure is one of the big things,
	and power and so on.
	And then the... It's just like here and now.
	Yes.
	Pleasure and power.
	That's right.
	And then the children of the Law of One are people who believe there's one God and that we are attached to that one God and part of it and that we need to worship this one God and live in peace.
	He said that same thing was going on back then.
	He gave us some real details.
	There was a place near Santa Barbara Santa Barbara, California, where a temple was built, and the Belial influence literally chased the Children of the Law of One across America several times, and there were a number of battles.
	The Children of the Law of One actually had to hide, and there is a tremendous amount of evidence in the archaeological record that there were groups who were actively fighting each other in real ancient history.
	Hi, Dr. Little.
	Not much has changed.
	No, it hasn't.
	In fact, it may just be spiraling a little more seriously now.
	That we can understand that this ancient America that you're describing so long ago really existed beyond Cayce's words.
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah.
	Like what?
	Well, almost everything.
	These dates Cayce has given now.
	I mean, there's a tremendous amount of information in DNA analysis.
	And I can explain that pretty simply.
	I don't think you have enough time for that before your break.
	But DNA analysis has essentially shown that all of Cayce's migration patterns are true.
	uh... secondly we have new big that have occurred were archaeologists have gone
	beneath the clovis layer and that's kind of interesting when when the clovis
	when the clovis barrier was broken archaeologists went back to the sites
	where they had found clovis and dug deeper and found more and more layers again so that
	everybody understands clovis uh... the clovis layer represents the
	nine thousand year old uh... level if you were to dig down you're going to get
	to nine thousand years pre-planned nine thousand bc right right
	Uh, and that, so everybody understands what we're talking about.
	That's Clovis, and that's what modern archaeology pins everything on, or did.
	That's right, and the thing is, there's quotes from archaeologists.
	They say, when we hit Clovis, we didn't go any lower because we knew there couldn't be anything there.
	Only there was.
	Now, how much deeper do you go than Clovis before you begin finding Well, what would you want to call it?
	Well, they don't have names for these things.
	There are no names whatsoever.
	There's a, like, where Clovis was broken, the site of Monteverde.
	Uh, the very day they had this massive press conference.
	Well, there's your first problem, Doctor.
	We need a name.
	Americans need something they can identify.
	Absolutely.
	I mean, Lucy, right?
	Yeah.
	There's Lucy and she tells us everything.
	Clovis.
	We now know what that is.
	We need a name for this next level.
	They're calling it Pre-Clovis.
	Pre-Clovis?
	Pre-Clovis, yeah.
	Not good enough.
	I know, because it doesn't really pin it down to anything, and the trouble is there's too many of them.
	It's got to have its own name, trust me.
	Right.
	Doctor, hold on.
	We'll be right back.
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	Thanks for watching!
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	But I just don't see how we can properly evaluate our present situation and our likely future unless we understand what's happened in the past.
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	Once again, Dr. Greg Little.
	Dr. Little, talk to me about genetics.
	I want to understand how genetics would prove or disprove or help or whatever, you know, proving what Casey said about ancient America and ancient Americans and that all we've known, it just isn't true.
	What does genetics tell us and how?
	Okay, there's a real specific kind of genetic analysis called mitochondrial DNA analysis.
	I've heard of it, yes.
	Okay, mtDNA.
	Now, within almost all of the cells of the body, there are these little organelles called mitochondria, and what they do is they take glucose and turn it into a usable form of energy.
	But mitochondria are not human, and they are probably some sort of a bacteria that developed a symbiotic relationship with us.
	Long, long ago.
	Anyway, mitochondria have their own unique DNA.
	Mitochondria are only passed through the female side so that your children, for example, only have your wife's mitochondria, not yours.
	So it really traces the female lineage.
	Now, worldwide right now, there are 42 major types of mitochondrial DNA.
	And you might have heard of the Seven Daughters of Eve, that idea, and that we can trace it back to Africa in this one person.
	And all that comes from mitochondrial DNA analysis, which again, it only traces the female lineage.
	With these 42 types of mitochondria, they can take any individual, living or dead for that matter, and actually trace, figure out what their major type of mitochondria is and they can actually tell when this individual's ancestors left their major group or migrated out from wherever they started.
	Wow!
	It's because of the way mitochondria, mitochondrial DNA mutates.
	It has a pretty steady rate of mutation.
	and it has truly revolutionized virtually all genetic research.
	And this is another area that archaeologists just hate, because they've never been trained in it,
	they don't quite understand it, and the mitochondrial DNA,
	the results go against everything they've said.
	So in other words, we're relying on the mutation, the mutation rate to tell us...
	Of mitochondrial DNA.
	Right.
	And that will how reliably tell us?
	Well, that'll tell us pretty darn reliably about when this individual's ancestors left their major group.
	For example, if their major group was in, say, Asia, and they left there in 50,000 B.C.
	and they started interbreeding with other groups, based upon a number of factors, we can take an individual who came from that lineage of the people who left Asia in 50,000 B.C.
	and pretty much pinpoint that.
	We know that then.
	It's a fascinating area of research.
	Uh, that, like I say, it's revolutionized virtually all of, uh, both archaeology and genetics.
	How far back does it take us?
	It can go back as far as humanity goes.
	In fact, we can do the same thing with animals.
	They carry mitochondria also.
	So we can, uh, it's, it's... Well, how far back have they gone with it?
	Uh, with humans?
	Uh, about 200,000 years.
	200,000 years?
	Right.
	About 200,000.
	Uh, and they can actually go back even further.
	thousand years right about two hundred thousand
	uh... and they can actually go back even further uh...
	and there is some debate about the very beginning of humanity now
	One of the reasons that they've said, for example, that we all came from Africa is because that's where the oldest remains have been found.
	But that may be changing pretty quickly.
	For example, in, say, Germany, they have found spears 40,000 years old there.
	Intact spear points.
	And recently they found a set of spears 400,000 years old, made by man.
	They don't know if it was modern man or not.
	Oh, that'll really screw them up.
	400,000 years.
	Actually, it's better than radiocarbon dating.
	Part of the problem with American archaeology is they've relied so much on radiocarbon dates, and the truth is radiocarbon dating is only somewhat accurate back to only 50,000 years ago.
	And you won't find many dates in America before 50,000 years ago
	because radiocarbon dating doesn't go back beyond it.
	I know, it's stupid.
	Well, in terms of reliability, percentage factors, or confidence levels,
	how much difference is there between the myocondrial...
	DNA analysis.
	And, uh, the, yes.
	Uh, radiocarbon dates have a much wider range, uh, so they're not quite as reliable as mitochondrial DNA is.
	And this is a generally accepted view?
	Oh, it's very accepted.
	It's, this is mainstream.
	Even, even the archaeologists have to acknowledge that it's true, but genetics comes out of, uh, some of the more scientific areas within medicine.
	But how can they acknowledge it's true without acknowledging that Oh, well, they've twisted around the findings to fit into their beliefs.
	In what manner?
	Well, I'll tell you.
	Here in America, for example, current Native American tribes and ancient remains started being examined when mitochondrial DNA analysis emerged in around 1991 and 92.
	And up to 1996, what they found were four major types here, and they're called ABCD.
	Mitochondria is labeled by Letters, A, B, C, D, E, all the way through the alphabet and then they have different kinds of variations like A sub 1 and so on.
	Now the A, B, C, D's all are found in Siberia also.
	A, B, C, and D are found in Siberia.
	So the nomads currently living there have the same type of mitochondria as those in
	Native Americans.
	And then archaeologists immediately jumped on that and said, see, that proves that what
	we've been saying all along is true, that they all came across the Bering Straits in
	10,000 B.C. or 9,000 B.C.
	And then all of a sudden in 1997, there's that year again, a different type of mitochondrial
	DNA called haplogroup X was found in America, which was shocking because haplogroup X wasn't
	found in that time anywhere in Siberia.
	It has been found now, but it's interesting where it was found.
	Haplogroup X is also found in Israel, very heavily in Israel, and it is found in the ancient Basques in the Pyrenees Mountains.
	And when I say the ancient Basques, in 1999, a group of geneticists went into four Basque cemeteries and took out the remains of nearly 200 people and did mitochondrial DNA analysis.
	I remember that.
	And they did that to prove a theory archaeologists have had for many years, and that is that all the people that populated Europe, like this horde of barbarians, Came rumbling through around the year 5000.
	And they came from southwestern Europe.
	And they're called haplogroup B. And what they found in the ancient Basque remains, not one person was haplogroup V. Not one!
	And it just threw them into a tizzy.
	What they did find was quite a bit of haplogroup X, though.
	Huh.
	They didn't find X in Siberia?
	Well, in 2001, actually, about two weeks before our book went to the printer, Haplogroup X was found in the southern Altaic Mountains, which is in the northern Gobi Desert.
	And it was found in a very unique group there, and we did make that in the book, but basically, If you take Edgar Cayce's predictions, it would be found in that area of the Gobi Desert, because Cayce said a group migrated there in 10,000 B.C.
	And it would also be found in the Basque areas.
	Haplogroup X would be there, and it would be found in Israel.
	Some of it would be found in parts of Egypt, particularly ancient Egyptians.
	And Cayce would also say that it would be found in the ancient Iroquois.
	Because we've come to the conclusion that haplogroup X is Atlantean mitochondria.
	Atlantean, huh?
	It comes from Atlantis.
	The dates on haplogroup X always seem to go back to 10,000 B.C.
	when they left wherever their main group was.
	All right.
	You do a lot on mounds, I know.
	Oh, yes.
	What are mounds?
	They're here in America, right?
	Oh, my gosh, yes.
	Most people think they're Just little heaps of dirt and they all hold burials, but the truth is they're more than little heaps of earth.
	What are they?
	Well, in America, what I think they are are symbols that connect the upper world to the lower world and this world.
	The upper world to the lower world?
	That's right.
	They're spiritual magic machines.
	There were 200,000 mounds when the Smithsonian very first got involved in Investigating mounds, there were 200,000 known in America back in the early 1800s.
	There's not nearly that many left today, but... I assume we've plowed a lot of mounds.
	Oh, we've plowed them.
	We've used them for up and down the Mississippi River.
	The levees that we have, a lot of the dirt and levees were taken from mounds near the river.
	Farmers, some of the best dirt you can find, so farmers have flattened it.
	People, looters have gone in and taken things out of them.
	How do we know these mounds were not natural?
	Oh, well, you can tell that.
	If you actually dig into one yourself, you'll be able to see the Where are these mounds?
	Somebody actually dumped a basket load of dirt and then pounded it down.
	You can see the contours of it.
	And then, of course, there are artifacts throughout it.
	Most mounds today, when you find them, if you want to tell if it's a real mound, go
	there after a rain and just look at the surface.
	Don't dig into it.
	That's probably not legal anyway.
	Just look at the surface.
	Where are these mounds?
	They basically extend from the entire east coast all the way to roughly Texas straight
	up north.
	There are thousands of them still in existence.
	There are a few in the northwest, but not very many.
	But they're out the entire eastern half of the United States.
	Whatever it was, it was almost universal across... It was universal.
	In fact, the mounds, the more incredible part of the mounds are the earthworks.
	The earthworks here in America are more incredible than the ancient earthworks or ancient buildings erected anywhere in the world.
	They're larger, there are more of them, and they're complex.
	What do you mean earthworks?
	Okay, if you take Stonehenge, most people are familiar with Stonehenge.
	Of course.
	Let's say you take something like Stonehenge and instead of using stone, You heap up Earth, and so you make round circles of Earth where the walls are maybe up to 33 feet tall.
	And you make octagons, connect them to circles, and then have a parallel wall, two different walls that are parallel with each other, running 56 miles to another circle and octagon.
	That's actually in Ohio, and a lot of it still remains today.
	And then what were these things and what were they supposed to represent or do?
	What archaeologists tell us is that they were used for rituals.
	But what they probably were were magic machines.
	These were earthen machines these people used to perform rituals to connect themselves with these other worlds, the spiritual world.
	They were magic machines. In fact, the ones in Ohio, the circle and octagon, which still exist today, the largest
	one in Newark, Ohio, it perfectly predicts the movements of the moon through 18.61
	years.
	Well, this is beginning to sound a lot like the pyramids at Giza.
	Absolutely, and that fits into this.
	Really?
	Orion's belt is seen in many, many mound alignments in the United States, as well as in Central America.
	Orion, Orion, Orion.
	That's right.
	And Orion's belt, that's part of it.
	Part of this is the connection To Atlantis and Casey.
	The pyramids at Giza and the fact that they were aligned to stars, Casey's the first to say that.
	The Hall of Records he talked about, he was the first one to discuss that.
	In fact, there's a Hall of Records in Central America, according to Casey.
	And we know the site where it is, but no one has ever found it yet, although Brigham Young University has been looking the past few years.
	Oh, have they?
	In the past five years, Brigham Young has gone to this site in Guatemala.
	I am a big fan of the movie, and I have been a fan of the movie for a long time. I have
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	I have been a fan of the movie for a long time. I have been a fan of the movie for a long time.
	When you get the Hall of Records said to exist beneath the Sphinx, Father Sphinx, or the one in Central America, what
	would you imagine, what kind of information would you imagine to be contained therein?
	Well, Cayce said real specifically what it was.
	He said there were 24 tablets, and on these tablets was engraved the history of Atlantis from the beginning of time when Humans descended into matter and became physical beings until the demise of Atlantis in about 10,014 B.C.
	And it tells of this battle between the sons of Belial and the children of the Law of One, and it talks about what we really are.
	So they had a kind of something that we in modern America might call a technology, although it was really more like I think it was a form of magic and their technology was
	different.
	Casey's story talks about a highly evolved culture that almost destroyed itself and was
	set back rather drastically.
	They used crystals and one of the neatest experiments I like to do with people is to
	darken a room, stand in front of them with two huge crystals, which the crystals are quartz,
	And you can literally light up a room with it to show people how much energy is inside these crystals.
	And it's a pretty impressive thing.
	Physics understands what it is.
	But if you read Casey's story about it, they use crystals.
	Well, I don't understand what it is.
	I have never seen... I do have crystals.
	Does it require a specific kind of crystal?
	Well, no.
	Actually, even lifesavers work.
	What?
	Lifesavers.
	If you take lifesavers, take a lifesaver, put it in your mouth, put it between your teeth, go into your bathroom, make sure it's totally dark in there.
	Yes.
	And make sure that your mouth is open enough and crunch that lifesaver and watch the little sparks come out of your mouth.
	The light.
	Now that's just a very simple demonstration of what's known as the piezoelectric effect.
	And in physics, it's called, again, it's the piezoelectric effect.
	Rubbing crystals causes what's called exoexcitation and it's the releasing of all those electrons that have been trapped inside of the crystals.
	In fact, they will, they What you're seeing is, instead of sparks, you're seeing little tiny balls of light, which in fact are like tiny little plasmas.
	Wow!
	And the ancient shaman used them.
	We know how they did it here in the Americas.
	We've actually found the shaman's bags.
	They would take leather pouches and they'd put a bunch of little crystals in there and they'd go into a darkened room And they would grind these things, and as they would grind them, the little balls of light would pop out of the leather pouch, and it would impress the heck out of people.
	Well, that's energy.
	Yes, it is.
	It's energy.
	You better believe it is.
	And when I've done this in different situations and different people, and I have no way to prove it, but it definitely creates some sort of a mental state in me.
	Do the crystals have to be Smooth or shaped in any particular way?
	No, as long as you could, you have to be... The watch works by putting pressure on the crystal.
	Uh-huh.
	And, uh, it, it, it generates a frequency.
	And in transm- oh, yes, believe me, in, uh, uh, a radio transmitter is, uh, years ago, Before newer technology took over, crystals were used to determine a specific frequency.
	And the size and the width of the crystal, as it was excited, would determine the frequency of the transmitter.
	See, I believe that they had some of this knowledge.
	They had.
	And part of their belief was... They just used it in a very different way.
	That's right.
	They believed they could communicate with the spirit world and God with these things.
	And I'm not going to say they could.
	There's a site, for example, in Portsmouth, Ohio.
	Actually, it's on the other side of the river.
	It's a square with two long extensions, 2,100 feet going each way.
	And we believe that that is the entrance to heaven and a portal to hell.
	Boy, you want to be sure and catch the right tunnel direction in that one.
	We'll get back to Dr. Greg Little shortly.
	I've got some crystals.
	I don't think I have any lifesavers, though some of you might give that a try.
	Let me know how it works.
	I don't know if I'd like that.
	You know, if you've got cavities, you don't want to think about electrical sparks in there very deeply, but I'd like to give that... Some of you out there try it.
	Let me know.
	We'll be right back.
	The World Trade Center burned for almost three months.
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	This is Anne.
	I want to compliment you on the beautiful song that Crystal Gale has written and dedicated to you.
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	Two congressional committees are ready to subpoena former Enron CEO Kenneth Ley.
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	Secretary of State Colin Powell says the U.S.
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	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
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	You're not going to believe what I just did, but I did it.
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	Live, live, live on the Ask Channel.
	Well, I just went into my bedroom, our bedroom, and we have been blessed with people who have given us crystals over the years, and my wife has always had crystals, and so I had a couple big chunks of Raw crystal and took it into a dark room and even lightly striking them together produces a really really good spark and it also produces a kind of undefined light.
	A light that goes beyond the spark.
	I mean these are serious sparks.
	Really serious sparks and serious lights.
	It's really very very cool.
	So if you're blessed to have crystal around Give it a try yourself.
	That's definitely seriously electrical.
	No question about that.
	But then there's something else, too.
	There's another kind of light with the light of the crystal.
	Now, it's hard to define because you think you're seeing a reflection of all the sparks that are going off.
	But there's another kind of light there, I'm telling you.
	That's really wild stuff.
	We'll be right back.
	We live, as you know, in very strange times, and if you want a flashlight, you can depend on it.
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	Well that was really, really, really, really cool.
	As I said, Dr. Little, I just tried what you suggested and it was awesome.
	Absolutely amazing!
	I didn't think you were going to try it right away.
	Oh yeah, I've got the stuff here, so why not?
	I can give you, if you want to take it a step further, the most spectacular effect is doing it underwater.
	Underwater?
	Do it in your bathtub.
	Sometime when your, if your bathroom is totally dark, fill the tub full of water, go to the,
	sit on the side of it, don't get in the water, but just sit on the side, put those crystals
	underwater, and rub them under there, and it will light up your entire bathroom.
	As long as you are rubbing those crystals.
	I don't know exactly what it is.
	It's refraction in the water or something, but it's phenomenal.
	The effect is just phenomenal.
	Well, again, in my mind, I saw two effects.
	I saw all kinds of sparks.
	I mean, not just a spark, but a lot of sparks.
	Number one, number ten, because I had a lot of rough edges.
	You know, those are raw crystals.
	Number two, though, I saw another light that I cannot so easily define.
	Uh, that went with it.
	Now, it could have been, because of the nature of crystal, a reflection within the crystal.
	I'm not sure.
	I understand what you're saying.
	Actually, technically, those are not sparks.
	The reason you think they're sparks is because you can smell some of the crystal fracturing and you can see little pieces of it.
	But those are actually just electrons pinging off.
	And when the crystal fractures, when little microscopic fractures occur, electrons pop out, and there are little balls of light that are literally plasmas, which is air that takes on the electromagnetic force of the electrons.
	It doesn't last very long with a small crystal.
	But those are actually little tiny plasma, electrically charged balls of air.
	By the way, with respect to your Lifesaver thing, people are fast blasting me saying, yes, that does work, but only with window green flavor.
	Well, actually, you can't.
	I was thinking on the break that actually it does work with others, but you can't use the breath, the Lifesavers breath mints.
	The best ones are the clear Lifesavers, the old fashioned kind.
	that you can almost see through.
	Oh. Huh. Huh.
	And it's the same basic principle.
	Alright, so then...
	Okay, so then is it...
	We are reasonably then concluding that there is some...
	Uh...
	There may well be some...
	Power...
	Within a crystal that if directed in some way
	that we don't know about could do all kinds of things
	like, who knows, move big things cause things to levitate
	maybe even move big blocks weighing tons and tons
	or who knows, right?
	Well, that's what Casey said, yes.
	I'm skeptical of moving stuff, but I know we don't know enough about crystals yet, and we sure don't know enough about the effects of the electromagnetic fields on the brain.
	The natives believed that they were opening up portals with this.
	Really?
	That there were literally doors.
	That's why they constructed these huge earthworks in shapes so they could open up doorways so that these other beings or other forces could move through the portals from their spiritual area to this physical world.
	What do you understand about the function of the pyramids in Egypt?
	According to Casey, they were built to align with the stars, and to point to specific places in the stars, and that they were there to house information from the Atlanteans.
	Beyond that, I believe that Buval is correct, and Hancock, who I know you have on later this week.
	I do?
	Yes.
	I see you watch very carefully.
	Yes, I believe they are correct in that it does point to roughly 10,500 B.C., which is the time frame Casey said that the Atlanteans went there, as well as to the Yucatan and to the Iroquois lands.
	I think they're correct, but I don't know how much further they can take that.
	I don't believe they're a power source.
	I have been in the Great Pyramid and been in every little area you can be in and crawled around for seven hours, which is enough time for me.
	I just don't think that it's a power source.
	I don't think that it's a beacon or anything else.
	I think it's there to serve as a Uh, in permanent information for us to tap.
	Do you think that if we got to this Hall of Records, it would contain information that would allow us to begin to understand, uh, the way these ancient powers were used?
	Yes.
	Yeah, I do.
	I think it would be there.
	I think it would be, uh, that we would see... This crystal plays a really key role in Casey's history of Atlantis, and he says that this is... that the power within a crystal Can be used for good purposes and bad purposes.
	That's like all power.
	That's right.
	And that within Atlantis, the split between these two groups, the Sons of Belial and the Children of Law of One, the Sons of Belial wanted to use the power for destructive force, and the Children of Law of One wanted to use it to get closer to God.
	And the two sort of had this philosophical political battle, and actually they destroyed their own place.
	Uh, but I think we would find that information there, uh, within the hall of records.
	Absolutely.
	And I do believe that there is a, that the hall of records, uh, somewhat like Casey has described, it does exist.
	I'm pretty sure of that.
	Well, again, then, uh, as of now, nothing has changed, you know, the old law of one folks and the other folks and they destroy themselves.
	And, and I was referring to understanding our past as it relates to You know, analyzing our present and our future, I wonder if there's any way our future can be changed, or if we are destined to become, I don't know if victim is the right word, but victims of history repeating itself limitlessly.
	In 9,000 years, people could talk about a great land, call it America, and it could be a myth to everyone that's around at the time.
	I don't think history is determined.
	We can change it, but just like Plato said several thousand years ago, many, many lands have been destroyed over and over.
	Civilizations have come and they've gone.
	Is there any indication, this might be way too specific, that any previous civilization has ever benefited from information held from another previous civilization?
	Well, benefited from, well, yeah, lithic technology.
	The making of weapons, absolutely.
	Okay.
	That's one thing.
	I mean, the discovery of certain kinds of weapons, sure, we copy that stuff.
	I think a lot of our modern, some of the, I call it modern, but some of the irrigation techniques that we use today, some of the, like the aqueducts of Rome and so on, we have borrowed a lot of that from these lost, literally long disappeared Advanced ancient civilizations.
	We have copied a lot of this.
	But beyond that, we've taken some of their philosophy.
	I don't think we've learned anything that changes us deeply.
	You know, like right and wrong and about destruction.
	I don't think we learned those lessons.
	Right and wrong probably never have changed.
	I would just make that guess.
	I don't think that right and wrong could change, yeah.
	Right, exactly.
	However, If an ancient civilization had technology and there's so much that points to the fact that they had to, they just simply could not have done what they did or we don't understand how they could have without some sort of technological ability that we don't have or understand today.
	Well, we're pretty limited today in our view in the past.
	And then we have these people that have on these blinders or the glasses that are rose colored or colored whatever
	they want it to be.
	So they're not really giving us the truth.
	That's part of the problem, our perception of truth.
	It's like seeing these literally thousands of mounds here in America.
	Some people see them as little heaps of earth, and they won't go and look at the gigantic ones that
	are clearly there as some other function.
	And in some cases, they're right in their own backyard.
	I mean, they're within miles of people.
	What's in Ohio?
	Oh, well, it's not just Ohio, but Ohio has... We took a tour.
	People to Mounds back in October.
	We took 105 people to Mounds.
	We started at Newark, Ohio, at the Circle and Octagon.
	And here's what's really interesting about this.
	The bus drivers of the two buses that we had, one of the bus drivers lived 20 miles from there.
	He had never been there.
	He had never heard of it.
	He walked up this 14 foot high wall and looked inside one of the most beautiful golf courses you'll ever see.
	The golf course is built inside the circle and octagon.
	There is a 20 acre perfect circle and the circle is formed by a 14 foot wall of earth and it's attached To a 50 acre perfect octagon.
	And inside the octagon there are 8 square mounds at each of the points of the octagon.
	Now the guy was an avid golfer.
	He immediately made a, this bus driver, he immediately made a tea time for 2 weeks from then.
	But he sat down and told me, he said, you know, I didn't have any idea any of this existed.
	And he lived there his entire life.
	But it's, that thing is phenomenal.
	And the only way to understand it, you can even see pictures of it, and you don't understand the magnitude of it, you could get several stone hinges or great pyramids to sit inside of that thing.
	And you'd still have space left over.
	In Louisiana, Poverty Point, Louisiana, the 11 miles of the semi-octagon embankment at Poverty Point, which was built in 2500 B.C., those 11 miles of earthworks would fill the great pyramids 32 times
	and there is a giant eagle effigy there an eagle mound where the eagle from wingtip to wingtip is over 720 feet.
	All of this uh so long bc now uh you say here that these appear to have been used or this this
	thing in Ohio yes near Portsmouth seems to others one in Portugal seems to have
	been used as a portal you said to heaven and hell.
	Yes.
	That's pretty wild stuff.
	No kidding.
	Now, what did they know about heaven and hell, B.C.?
	Oh, well, we know they had their idea about that.
	The modern Native Americans carry some of the exact same legends that go back to antiquity.
	We also know by the way that they've constructed these earthworks and mounds, although what I'm calling mounds are not always mounds.
	Sometimes they are huge geometrical earthen shapes.
	The magnitude of which, the walls can be up to 33 feet tall on these things.
	But anyway, we do know that they funneled people.
	They channeled the movement of people through these parallel walls.
	And they take them through points.
	My wife likes to call the one that I think leads to hell the eyedropper.
	Because it gets narrower and narrower to where only one person can move between these two little points.
	And that I think is the portal to hell.
	I think that's the way out to hell.
	And that's actually on the Kentucky side of the Ohio River, Portsmouth.
	Why do you believe that?
	Or why do you believe that they believed that then?
	Well, we know...
	Why do I believe it?
	Basically, it's from studying what the modern Native Americans know and what we know about some Native American beliefs when the very first Europeans came here.
	Some of that was written down.
	We know that when the first settlers and the first priests and so on came in, Those that made friends with the Native Americans found out a lot of their spiritual beliefs that had been handed down from antiquity.
	They did believe in a heaven and a hell.
	They literally did believe in a happy hunting ground, which the Cheyenne believe literally is the star Sirius.
	But anyway, they do believe in the literal existence of heaven and hell.
	They think heaven is a specific star.
	Hell is banishment from that star.
	And that belief is still held by many Native American tribes.
	And it's consistent with other religious beliefs, for that matter.
	And so, you do believe that there was and is, was prior to Christ's time on Earth, a heaven and hell?
	Oh.
	Well, that's, yeah.
	Yeah, I do.
	Yeah, I have to just admit point-blank.
	I'm pretty religious.
	I guess I shouldn't say religious.
	I'm pretty spiritually oriented.
	And I believe that everything that we decide is essentially spiritual in its nature.
	It has an effect on us, an effect on our inner self and who we really are.
	Every decision we make.
	You know, there are many Christians, and I hear from them.
	Believe me, I hear from them.
	And you know, they think that man's only been around on Earth for, what, 6,000 years?
	Well, they're wrong.
	I don't know what else to say.
	Most of them, there aren't many of these ultra-fundamentalists.
	They may be loud, and they may make a lot of noise, but there's not that many of them.
	And there's nowhere in the Bible that says man's been around 6,000 years.
	It may well be that you don't meet a lot of them, Doctor.
	Oh, I meet some of them.
	Do you?
	Oh, yes.
	I can assure you there are quite a few if I go by email percentages.
	Of course, you just said they're loud, so... Sure.
	Maybe it's disproportionate, but I'm telling you I hear from a lot of them.
	Well, you're... I wouldn't doubt it a bit.
	You'd be a focal point for a lot of them because you bring a lot of people on that have ideas that they believe go against their beliefs.
	See, I don't think anything I say goes against fundamentalism.
	Well, you'd be one of those people.
	But one of which people?
	One of the aforementioned people.
	I know.
	That challenged their beliefs.
	Yeah, I know.
	But I don't generally hear from them.
	I don't get challenged that much by them.
	And I've been around quite a while doing this.
	In fact, I've had fundamentalists after I have talked with them, and it's not just that these ideas go against their beliefs.
	I do believe that everything is spiritual, and I do believe that there is a A hell, though I don't accept their vision of what it may be.
	And I think there's a heaven, too, although I don't accept the vision that they may have of heaven.
	All right.
	Hold tight.
	Actually, it would be interesting to understand what your vision of those two locations would be.
	I'm always interested in what people think about that.
	I've had my own thoughts about it.
	Heaven.
	Hell.
	What would they be?
	No single thing.
	They couldn't be any single thing.
	They have to be as individual as all of you little snowflakes out there, right?
	I'm Art Vowell from the high desert.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	AM.
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	Two warlords in northern Afghanistan say they are ready to withdraw from Mazar-e-Jarif and form a new security force.
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	Democratic Senator Joseph Biden of Delaware warns the fate of Afghanistan might be at stake.
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	The managing editor of the Wall Street Journal says he wants to address the concerns of the kidnappers who are holding reporter Daniel Pearl in Pakistan.
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	I'm Dorothy McIntyre, ABC News.
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	From the Kingdom of Nye, this is Coast to Coast with Art Bell on WPRO.
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	Once again, Dr. Greg Little and...
	Dr. Little, I should take a moment out and at least promo your book, which is called Mound Builders, Edgar Cayce's Forgotten History of Ancient America.
	Is the book available?
	I know it's available, obviously, from ARE, and I've got a toll-free number here, which is 1-800 723-1112.
	That's easy number.
	1-800-723-1112. That's easy number 1-800-723-1112.
	I'd like to add there that they are only open during normal business hours.
	Normal business hours.
	What about other places?
	Oh, Amazon.
	You've actually got a link on your website for Amazon.
	Oh, absolutely.
	All right.
	All right.
	These mound builders who thought there was a heaven and hell, you mentioned something.
	Just out of curiosity, you need not answer.
	You think there is a heaven and hell.
	Yes.
	What do you think it is?
	Well, I've stated pretty clearly in a number of books, including this one, including the Mound Book, and I actually have a scientific explanation for it that has made sense to a lot of people.
	Try me.
	Okay.
	Are you familiar with the electromagnetic energy spectrum?
	I certainly am.
	Okay.
	Most people aren't.
	They think that if you can't see something, that it must be in another dimension.
	And I've had that discussion with lots of UFO believers.
	Just because you can't see something doesn't mean there's something there, like the radio waves around us.
	But anyway... That's right.
	Actually, if radio and television waves were visible, it would be like dodging it all the time.
	Yeah, we'd be... Actually, we'd be blind.
	We'd hear lights all around us.
	That's exactly right, yes.
	But anyway, I believe that the electromagnetic energy spectrum is the reality spectrum.
	And I know that we are close to in the middle of it, and about 5% of the physical world and the light within the physical world rests in the visible light range.
	And the 95% outside of it, I think, represents the two spiritual realms, higher and lower.
	On the far end, one end going up to cosmic rays and what I like to call stellar nurseries, Stars are born and actually energy appears to be created.
	I think that is heaven.
	And the other end where energy comes to a complete standstill, I believe that is hell.
	And energy would come to a complete standstill when actually in a black hole.
	Theoretically.
	Well, I'm not a physicist, but let's see.
	And I can't tell you... A black hole I know swallows up Yes.
	Light and stars and all matter that it encounters and just increases its density, it's thought, with this consumption, right?
	That's correct.
	And light cannot escape it.
	That's why it's called a black hole.
	And it would be as dense as dense could be in the center of it.
	In fact... So where energy would come to a stop would be a black hole, which would be hell.
	Which would represent hell, right.
	And there's a, actually, there's a tradition for this.
	And I didn't, this idea, I've always been interested in this electromagnetic energy spectrum.
	So have I. Carl Jung, actually, both Carl Jung and John Keel, who was author of the Mothman Prophecies.
	Got him on the show.
	Right.
	Keel, I've talked to Keel a number of times and written about him quite a lot.
	Keel was the second person to Say that UFOs come from the electromagnetic energy spectrum.
	The first person actually was Carl Jung, and Jung's last book was called Flying Saucers, a Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Sky.
	It was published in 1959, and Jung actually said that he believed that UFOs and these intelligences, whatever they are, were archetypal forces that came from different ends of the EM spectrum.
	And that is where I initially got the idea, then I stumbled upon Kiel and basically built upon that idea, then studied some of the ancient books, particularly the Hebrew, it's called Enoch 3, the Hebrew book of Enoch, and in that the descriptions of the little grey creatures that are called the Watchers.
	That's right.
	Yes, they take, that's actually in 3 Enoch and there's a description of them, but they take them to this place where they rotate this craft that they carry souls in and they push the souls through this gate and once the souls go through the gate they spiral down and they can see out.
	This is all in that ancient book.
	I was going to say, I'm going to be honest with you, I'm not a fan of the word, but I'm
	not a fan of the word, but I'm not a fan of the word, but I'm not a fan of the word, but
	No, it doesn't.
	Remember, energy can neither be destroyed nor created.
	It can only change form.
	Right, but you led us in that direction when you talked about the entrance to a black hole.
	So it wouldn't exactly That's right.
	I'll tell you what really... That's actually kind of a depressing belief, and I was depressed for a while.
	Well, it is when I think about it.
	I came to believe that.
	But what really saved me was the newest, at least, I won't call it research, but speculations by Stephen Hawking and others that shows us that energy that goes into a black hole doesn't necessarily stay there forever.
	There's an outer shell that appears around the black hole where energy comes from.
	My vision of this is like a cosmic cleansing in there.
	That some sort of purified energy, everything that goes into a black hole eventually comes out and it's different somehow.
	Maybe we could call it a purgahole.
	Maybe.
	Yeah.
	Purgatory.
	That's right.
	Well, hmm.
	And then what about the other side?
	You said the old ones believed Orion.
	Well, they believed that the Cheyenne, now all these different groups had different beliefs.
	I had a Cheyenne, actually he was the arrow priest of the Cheyenne tribe stay with us for a month back in 1990.
	And during that month, one night we went out and he just pointed, I asked him, we were talking about heaven.
	And he went out and pointed to it, the happy hunting ground.
	So, we have many descriptions of heaven. You told us what you thought hell was. Very interesting.
	What do you think heaven is? I think heaven is where energy is created.
	It's the stellar nursery. Cosmic rays at their most energetic. At where all energy literally
	is spewed forth, which is in a... I love the term cosmic nursery, and that's one that was
	coined by, I believe Hawking came up with that also.
	Not bad.
	Alright, so then you believe that souls continue to exist in this horrific manner in a pergola hole.
	Well, I think they can.
	What about heaven?
	What about when a soul goes to heaven?
	I think it's just close to creation.
	And I don't think we can really conceive of it.
	Our minds are so limited.
	We're just so narrow and so limited we can't conceive of what it would be like to just be pure energy.
	And maybe the closest we get is like people when they have a near-death experience.
	Well, it's almost like you're saying pure free energy versus energy in a kind of a hellish prison.
	Yeah, okay.
	Well, if you think about it, in these bodies that we have, my mother was just diagnosed with cancer.
	I'm sorry?
	Well, you know, it's... Well, thank you.
	But anyway, in these bodies, we got energy imprisoned in these bodies.
	That's the whole idea that Edgar Cayce was talking about, that we are literally souls trapped in physical matter, and we made this choice to come here.
	And the problem is, is that we don't understand that we are energy trapped in physical matter, and we make the choice, we made the choice to do this, and unfortunately, once we made that choice, we keep coming back again and again until we get out of here, until we escape the trap.
	Do you believe that the soul is a prized possession fought over by whatever rules the good and evil side?
	Is that a yes or a no?
	Well, I'm not sure what you're visualizing.
	They're like demons and little beings and so on.
	Yeah, that's right.
	Demons?
	Yeah, I thought so, but I wasn't sure.
	God, the devil, Lucifer, whatever.
	You know, rulers of kingdom up there, kingdom down there.
	I think souls have value, of course, don't you?
	Those people that call in that thump the Bible, are they not trying to control souls?
	Absolutely, yeah.
	And obviously there's some value to the souls.
	I worked in prisons for a long time and still do.
	I try to stay at them as much as possible.
	If a person doesn't believe evil exists, if they go to work in prisons for 25 years, they will see some real evil sooner or later.
	There's a saying out of the Bible, it's actually in Proverbs, and it's misery loves company.
	That's actually out of Proverbs, and I think that evil likes to create more of itself because misery loves company.
	People ask me all the time, why do they do this?
	And I say the best answer I know is the simplest, and it is.
	Misery loves company.
	These are miserable people, many of whom cannot escape their trap, and the only thing left for them is to bring everybody else into the same trap.
	Fascinating.
	Really, in many ways.
	You're saying everything that would support what a fundamentalist says, short of saying what a fundamentalist says.
	Well, I don't believe... I think fundamentalists are off track.
	They are fundamentally deluded.
	Well, maybe so, but the two of you, you and fundamentalists... That's why I get along with them.
	I mean, I can see why you do, because you virtually are agreeing with him right up until some rather specific points.
	Hindus believe the same sort of stuff.
	That's interesting in this.
	Hindus believe the same basics.
	And a part of Islam, I don't want to talk much about Islam, but a part of Islam has very similar beliefs.
	It's just, you know, it's just whoever the messenger is, that seems to be the big difference in all this.
	Uh, and to me that's not the real issue with some of this anyway.
	So, what event do you think would have to take place for history to stop repeating itself and for the good and evil forces I suppose that's a matter of perspective, but we're calling the good and evil forces to not destroy themselves and the world and civilization all over again.
	I can't answer your question because I don't think that can occur.
	I was afraid you were going to say that.
	I don't either.
	I do not believe that we have the solution to all problems.
	The problems are man-made, based somewhat upon the nature of this physical world we're in.
	But I don't think we can solve all problems.
	They are beyond us.
	It's like, how would you solve what's going on in the Middle East, which has been going on back into history from what we know as the beginning of time?
	And it still goes on.
	It seems to be squarely on course with biblical prophecy.
	Well, yeah, I think biblical prophecy simply mirrors what was going on back then and it's kind of like an inevitable outcome.
	It's like a chess match where you can see 20 moves into the future and tell what's going to happen.
	Now you see, Casey should have had some comments on all of that.
	He did.
	In other words, aren't we all but puppets on a string?
	Acting out a larger play?
	Imagine that there is a larger play, but each one of us, we're not puppets, every one of us has true freedom of choice.
	We can choose.
	But at the same time, the ending is kind of known, which is paradoxical.
	It is, isn't it?
	It's quite paradoxical.
	I have been in situations within prisons where things were out of control, and I knew what was going to happen.
	But if you, what the ending would be.
	But if you actually would talk to some of the inmates within the prison.
	How long did you work in prisons?
	Well I still do.
	I have programs within prisons in 42 different states.
	And I've been in the prison system.
	Is that how you began?
	Doing work in prisons or?
	Actually my very beginning was in the field of psychopharmacology.
	Basic animal research.
	Searching for the site of action of various drugs within the brain.
	And at the time I was an atheist.
	Uh, very unspiritual in every way, shape, and form.
	Uh, believed that when you're dead, you're dead, and that was that.
	Were you essentially experimenting on prisoners?
	No, uh, animals.
	At the time, I was strictly doing lots of research on animals.
	Thousands of rats, cats, um, mice, you name it, but animals.
	I never gave drugs to prisoners or anything like that, no.
	And then I went to work within the prison system, same time.
	In what capacity?
	I ran drug and alcohol treatment programs and then worked for the Federal Bureau of Prisons as a consultant and then worked in mental health in prisons and then from 1990 to the present have spread a specific treatment program that I helped design called What's called moral recognition therapy.
	Have you seen people like Manson's?
	Oh yeah.
	I've seen interviews with Manson.
	I've got Manson's MMPI in my office here.
	What is an MMPI?
	It's a psychological test.
	You know, then maybe you could tell me something.
	With the interviews I've seen with Manson, he is, when you look and listen to him, the
	closest thing I can personally describe as something that hits me as pure evil.
	I mean, straight down the line evil.
	Now, maybe he has his better moments.
	I don't know.
	But when I've seen him, oh, my God, to listen to this man speak, he's in a different world.
	Well, they they are in a different world.
	But even if you look at some of the pictures of even Hitler, those movies, you see him being nice sometimes to children and animals.
	In his moments of weakness, Hitler was occasionally nice to children and animals.
	But I think the essence of Hitler was he chose to be evil.
	So did Manson.
	Although, in their point of view, it's not evil.
	Not in their point of view.
	No, but I can assure you, boy watching him, no question about it.
	Well, there's a diagnosis of those people, and it's antisocial personality disorder.
	It's also known as a psychopath and a sociopath.
	All those terms mean the same thing.
	And it's on a scale from the most extreme are these serial murderers.
	They're the worst of the worst.
	And the worst ones would not... Manson, you can tell, is evil.
	The worst ones are the ones I have a lot of friends who are in the business of making
	money.
	I have a lot of friends who are in the business of making money.
	Damon.
	But I don't believe they're possessed by demons, no.
	Oh, really?
	Now, you just surprised me.
	You've done research indicating or leading you to believe there might be demons?
	I do believe, yes, within that electromagnetic... Carl Jung believed it.
	Kiel talked about it.
	I have...
	Yes.
	Yeah, I do believe there is.
	Okay, fine.
	Energy forms, negative energy forms that take on specific shapes.
	The Native Americans called them tricksters and there were levels of tricksters.
	And so what do you think is, what's a demon?
	Uh, they are, uh, energy forms designed to mislead you.
	That make you choose in certain directions and directions you should not choose.
	And it's like, you know, Edgar Cayce's beginning.
	And do they have a boss?
	Uh, a boss.
	Uh, maybe at one end of the... I think they're being pulled by one end of the electromagnetic energy spectrum.
	Well, alright.
	Hold on, doctor.
	Uh, so, so close.
	And it's just that little inch of difference between the good doctor here and fundamentalist.
	Really interesting.
	Being pulled.
	Do they have a boss?
	Well, no, but being pulled by one side.
	Well, who's directing that side, anyway?
	Not a big difference here.
	Not a really big difference.
	I'm Art Bell from the high desert.
	This...
	is Coast to Coast AM.
	What we do when you're lonely, no one waiting by your side.
	You've been running from high to low, you know it's just your foolishness. Yeah, love, you got me on my knees.
	You've known Dan Aykroyd since Saturday Night Live, the Blues Brothers and the House of Blues, but did you know he's
	got a deep interest in UFOs?
	You can read about Dan in the February issue of the After Dark Newsletter.
	You'll find out about his interest in the NASA UFO cover-up, and yes, There is evidence that UFO activity has been seen at NASA.
	Also, read about the future of nanotechnology.
	Real-life stories of levitation.
	Find out who tried to levitate the Pentagon.
	Yes, the Pentagon.
	It's all in the February issue of the After Dark Newsletter.
	If you haven't subscribed yet, it's a good time to get on board.
	Call right now.
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	Art Bell welcomes a variety of interesting guests to his program.
	Some are names you may not know.
	Others are names you know very well.
	This is Leonard Nimoy.
	Leonard, welcome to the program.
	Thank you.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	We have such a short time that I feel obligated to literally pummel you with questions.
	Okay, go.
	How much chance do you think there really is that we will be contacted?
	There are something like four billion stars in our galaxy alone.
	And there are billions of other galaxies.
	Each of those stars are potential suns, just like ours.
	And that means that if one out of every million of those stars has planets around,
	and one out of every million of those has some kind of life on it,
	then the numbers tell us that the chances are very, very great that there is life out there someplace.
	♪♪ ♪♪
	Newstalk Radio.
	Providence!
	From ABC News, I'm Dorothy McIntyre.
	There are two new pleas for the release of kidnapped American reporter Daniel Pearl.
	One plea comes from his wife, the other comes from his employers at the Wall Street Journal.
	In an open letter, the paper's managing editor Paul Steiger begins, I know the national movement for the restoration of Pakistani sovereignty is very serious and wants others to know about its movement.
	These pleas are being released because there has been no communication from the kidnappers since last Wednesday.
	He pleads with the abductors to send the next email to the account of one of Danny's close friends or a private phone line of one of these friends.
	Daniel Pearl has been missing now for 13 days.
	Jeffrey Kaufman, ABC News, Islamabad.
	Some scary moments for passengers on Delta Flight 1642 last night.
	It took off from Denver bound for Salt Lake City.
	It returned to Denver about an hour later and was evacuated after a suspicious note was found on board.
	This man was one of the 56 passengers.
	One of the agents, undercover agents on the plane kind of Uh, took control, went up to the front, made sure no one was going into the overhead bins, uh, making sure everyone was sitting down.
	And basically, they got us home, uh, or back here as fast as they could.
	Passengers say the pilot announced the note contained a bomb threat.
	A bomb threat forced a Northwest jetliner flying from Cancun to Detroit to make an emergency landing shortly after takeoff yesterday.
	Northwest flight 1852 left Cancun, returned about a half hour later.
	The passengers and crew were evacuated safely.
	The plane was searched.
	No explosives were found.
	Lawmakers on Capitol Hill say if former Enron Chairman Kenneth Ley won't testify voluntarily, he will be forced to do so.
	A Senate committee will vote today on whether to demand that Ley appear.
	You're listening to ABC News.
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	Then decide if they're worthy of your trust.
	And more importantly, your cash.
	At eBay, feedback ratings help ensure fair dealing.
	eBay.
	The world's online marketplace.
	Happy hunting.
	Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld says American forces should apologize if innocent people were killed in that raid two weeks ago in Afghanistan.
	Rumsfeld says friendly forces could have been mixed in with unfriendly forces who fired first.
	An investigation is underway.
	Do you need a home heart starter?
	ABC's Daria Allbanger reports the medical community is divided over the issue.
	They have them on airplanes, in shopping malls and casinos, and they've saved a lot of lives.
	So why not have a defibrillator at home?
	Some doctors say it's time for it, comparing them to common safety devices like smoke detectors.
	Others say that's just the point, arguing that a lot of those alarms don't have fresh batteries and that the time spent running to get the device and using it could be spent calling 9-1-1.
	The most compelling argument against it may come from Dr. Arthur Calliman of Emory University, who says having a defibrillator at home could cause people to ignore less glamorous but proven preventative measures.
	In his words, why give up cheeseburgers when old Sparky's under the couch?
	Daria Albinger.
	ABC News.
	A Northwest Airlines jumbo jet turned back to the Philippine capital Manila yesterday after having engine problems on its way to Japan.
	The plane landed safely at the airport.
	Michael Jordan's wife Juanita has withdrawn a divorce petition she filed last month.
	They will try to reconcile.
	They've been married for 12 years and have three children.
	This is ABC News.
	In this time of need, the American Red Cross is profoundly grateful for your generous outpouring of support.
	A long period of uncertainty and recovery awaits us all.
	Please maintain your resolve to donate blood.
	Call 1-800-GIVE-LIFE to schedule an appointment.
	Please be persistent.
	The need for blood will continue in the days, weeks, and months ahead.
	Call 1-800-GIVE-LIFE.
	1-800-GIVE-LIFE. Together, we can save a life.
	I'm Dorothy McIntyre, ABC News.
	Southern New England depends on WPRO's exclusive AccuWeather forecast.
	Increasing wind overnight, low near 20.
	Wind chill near zero.
	Tuesday, cold and windy with plenty of sun, high near 30.
	Tuesday night, clear to partly cloudy and brisk, low 22.
	With WPRO's exclusive AccuWeather, I'm Reggie Lutz.
	At News Talk Radio 630 WPRO.
	Don Sowa's Money Talk.
	Weeknights at 6.
	You say money can't buy happiness?
	Look at the smile on my face.
	Ear to ear, baby.
	He doesn't tell you what to do with your money.
	He tells you exactly what to do with your money.
	I've always wanted money.
	Sponsored by Masters & Servants.
	Insurance strategies that protect your business.
	Because nothing's more valuable than peace of mind.
	The lure of the lira!
	The romance of the ruble!
	Here, New England's longest-running financial show.
	Weeknights at 6 on AM630.
	AM630.
	WPRO.
	This is Coast to Coast with Art Bell on WPRO, the Associated Press Station of the Year for breaking and continuous news coverage.
	When it really matters, keep it on AM630.
	on AM 630 WPRO.
	AM 630 WPRO.
	AM 630 WPRO.
	so so
	To reach our goal in the kingdom of Nigh from west of the Rockies dial 1
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	800-618-8255, east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222, or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
	To reach Art on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
	It certainly is, and we're about to go to the phones.
	That means all of you with Dr. Greg Little.
	We're talking about Edgar Cayce.
	And what once was here in America, in the world for that matter, and what once was is not what most archaeologists think is the way it happened, but it just so happens that most of the evidence, if you've been listening carefully tonight, points directly toward another truth, if you can handle it.
	Increasingly that truth is becoming self-evident.
	If you have ever in your life wanted a real downtown, bang up, first class, gonna see
	in the deep space kind of telescope, then the time to listen very carefully would be
	right now.
	I have a sponsor on the coast of Oregon, Hardin Optical.
	And, you know, who knows how long they'll be here.
	I'm so thankful they're here.
	But while this opportunity is here, they have two telescopes.
	That are priced for the average person, but oh man, the performance of these things.
	They're 6 inches in diameter and 8 inches in diameter.
	They're gigantic.
	They're on wood bases.
	The only way you can really know how big they are, other than my telling you, the UPS guy, Probably collects a lot of hernias trying to get them to doors.
	They're like caskets when they come.
	They're gigantic.
	Is to go to their website and look at one of them.
	They're at forthenightsky.com.
	That's F-O-R, the night sky, all run together, dot com, forthenightsky.com.

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