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Jan. 28, 2002 - Art Bell

01:50:03

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Hutchison Effect - John Hutchison

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	What you're going to see is just about beyond belief.
	We have video clips of heavy objects levitating.
	Canadian John Hutchinson is a self-taught scientist who reports to have accidentally stumbled upon a collection of phenomena now known as the Hutchinson Effect.
	During attempts to study the longitudinal waves of Tesla back in 1979, some of the effects produced include levitation of heavy objects Metal samples turned transparent, metals turned into jelly, and the spontaneous fracturing of metals.
	The Hutchinson Effect has been well documented, both on film and videotape, has been witnessed many times by numerous credentialed scientists and engineers.
	Hutchinson has presented over 750 demonstrations of levitations, all generated by the Hutchinson Effect.
	He also has video documentation showing Metallurgical samples falling apart, as well as the transmutation of wood impregnated into metals.
	His findings have been televised in the U.S., Japan, and Canada, and have piqued interest from electrical engineering and aircraft companies, the Canadian Department of Defense, and the military, as you might well imagine.
	Coming up in a moment, John Hutchinson.
	Now, I immediately, immediately recommend that you go to my website and in the following order watch what I'm going to instruct you to watch.
	Alright?
	Go to artbell.com and go to program and then tonight's guest info and under the name John Hutchinson you will want to click on video of photos of experiments.
	And there is video clip number one and video clip number two.
	But if you will go to the bottom of the page, you can see the first page, past all the still photographs, you will see video of John's laboratory.
	Now, John has a laboratory that rivals anything it looks like to me at NASA.
	It is extremely impressive.
	And until tonight, I was not aware of the Hutchinson effect, nor of John Hutchinson.
	But the videos that we have, the proof that we are offering you, it's mind-boggling.
	I mean, you will see things levitate in the air.
	You will see heavy objects levitate in the air.
	I don't know what to tell you.
	We've got it on video.
	John, welcome to the program.
	Well, it's a real nice honor to be on your program, Mark.
	Where are you in Canada?
	Well, I'm in New Westminster, British Columbia, Canada, on the west coast.
	All right.
	And how old are you now, John?
	Well, I forgot, but I'm into life extensions, so I think I'm about 55.
	About 55.
	Okay.
	When did you begin your experiments with Tesla technology?
	I mean, how did you get involved in that in the first place?
	Well, I was always fascinated by Tesla technology, especially in the 60s and that.
	Yes.
	And the information at that time period is very vague.
	Actually, it still is.
	Yeah.
	A lot of what Tesla did, we don't know.
	They scooped all his work up.
	I know.
	But in the 70s, I got this great inspiration with a machine shop to reproduce to 18th century standards a lot of the equipment.
	High frequency converters and generators and all that neat stuff.
	Yeah, I can see it.
	I just went on and on and on and it seemed that nothing was impossible to achieve.
	Well, what were you trying to achieve?
	In other words, what was your goal when you began?
	More or less, basically just having fun.
	That's basically it.
	I was just having fun.
	Yeah, but having fun based on... I wasn't trying to prove anything.
	Basically, I had a great interest in replication of high-frequency, high-voltage effects, radio-frequency energies, and electrostatic energies.
	Voltages, how high?
	You mean Van de Graaff generator-type voltage, or what?
	Yeah, Van de Graaff generators up to, well, I made one myself.
	It went up to about two million electron volts.
	Oh, that's a lot.
	Yeah.
	A lot.
	That's a lot.
	A lot of stuff there.
	And then the Tesla cloud itself only was up to a million volts.
	A Tesla coil at a million volts.
	Yeah, that's a baby one.
	When did you begin to observe, as you experimented, anything anomalous that you just, you know, you didn't understand why?
	I would think about 1979 was a time period when things started to happen.
	Like what?
	I would get pieces of bakelite material coming across a room and hitting me on the shoulder.
	Or hitting and crashing into things.
	When you did what to them?
	When I was activating the electrostatics and also the Tesla coil machinery and a pulsating high voltage DC voltage through a spark gap.
	Okay.
	And I was using also RF generation equipment at 455 kilohertz.
	At four point... I'm sorry, say again?
	Sorry, 455.
	455 kilohertz?
	Yeah.
	That's the highest frequency of most broadcast radios.
	That's right.
	And playing with these fields, I always was playing with something like that, even prior to the Tesla interest.
	Now, just curious, before we move on, are you aware that the alleged Philadelphia experiment, which used large electromagnetic fields and rotating RF fields, Actually, it has a lot of parallels to what you're talking to me about right now.
	That's what I discovered in 1982 when Dr. Guy Obolinsky suggested I fine-tune the frequencies, and I'd start to get the same kind of effects as the Philadelphia Experiment.
	Oddly enough, some of these things actually did happen.
	We had a whole building disappear in 1987 when I was with him.
	I'm not kidding.
	A whole building?
	I did not see it myself.
	Of my workers there who worked with Boeing, George Lissakas and Alexander Shesky from Russia there, an insurance agent was to come down to insure the laboratory.
	Right.
	And basically he came down and found no building.
	Just an empty lot.
	So, we questioned him about, you know, the surrounding area, what did you see when you came here, the address, and everything went over and over and over again, and basically he got very upset and angry, saying you guys are trying to play a practical joke on me, I don't get it, and he just backed off and never came around again.
	now i didn't see this happen but my friends of course told me the story
	and other times of course on analysis of the eight millimeter
	film the old style film by the canadian government they found that uh... some of
	these metal samples would turn
	semi-transparent and you can actually see through them and see the objects
	underneath them uh... exactly
	if you if you don't mind telling me if you're willing to tell me exactly
	what were you applying when when those effects began to occur
	You were applying electrostatic voltage?
	Uh-huh.
	You had a Tesla coil operating?
	Yes?
	I had about three Tesla coils operating.
	Three Tesla coils?
	Three Tesla coils.
	One at 7.5 in the kilohertz range.
	Uh-huh.
	And one at 14 megahertz.
	14 megahertz.
	Uh-huh.
	And, of course, the RF generators at 455.
	And the electrostatic unit generator.
	This is in the very early days of these kind of experiments.
	And I also had weak magnetic fields.
	Okay, wait a minute.
	Electrostatic at about 2 million volts, right?
	Well, that's, no, no.
	The electrostatic unit I had, I had several of them actually.
	The very first one I started out with was about a half a million volts.
	Half a million, okay.
	And then, as time went on, I always would upgrade the laboratory?
	Of course.
	But, if I've got it right, three Tesla coils, 7.5 kilohertz, 14 megahertz.
	Now, those would be, that's a harmonic, right?
	Getting in close to a harmonic.
	7.5, well, close, yeah, close.
	I'm sorry, not an exact harmonic, I'm wrong.
	And what other frequency?
	5 megs.
	5 megahertz?
	Yeah, 5 megahertz.
	Now, these are very fine So fine that there's literally no sparks from them.
	Okay.
	They're so finely tuned with, um, well with spark gap and also high capacitance.
	And the other one was vacuum tube operated.
	So you get the high frequency in that?
	Um, right.
	Up at 14 megahertz.
	Yeah.
	Um, and then a half million volts of electrostatic and 455 kilohertz, uh, RF.
	Yeah.
	A lot of it I had to dump into a dummy load.
	I get into a lot of problems with what they call the Department of Transport up here.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	I was using quite a bit of RF energy.
	But the effects would happen away from the equipment.
	They could happen outside.
	All right.
	First of all, I'm going to sit here and watch as I speak to you your first video, the first video that Keith, I think you sent him what?
	You sent him videotape?
	Um, TV shows and videotape.
	Okay.
	Sure.
	This shows objects, solid objects of all kinds, just suddenly taking off from the floor and from shelves.
	It shows a plastic bottle squeezing in all by itself.
	It shows, my God, object after object just taking off from the floor.
	That would be 1987 time period when I was at peak, 88 to 89 time period when I was at peak efficiency with this stuff.
	And what in God's name are we seeing here?
	I mean, where was this, please?
	This was in another laboratory in Vancouver, Canada.
	Yes.
	And it was sponsored by Boeing, the Boeing company down in Seattle, Washington.
	Boeing, yes.
	And with also a couple of workers, scientists that worked with me.
	We set this laboratory up yet again.
	It went through many different moves prior to that.
	And on this run, I incorporated microwave technology and more advanced Tesla systems, and also more advanced electrostatic systems.
	Yeah, but my God, whatever you would throw at these things, I can understand little pieces of tin or foil or something jumping around with great electrostatic prodding but you know things taking off into the air like
	this john all i know we have to fifteen hundred pounds
	well or really that only limited to one inch now
	the idea and there's been a lot of scientific papers written by other
	scientists but there appears to be some
	are like uh... key ways to open up some other dimension allow this to happen
	all given again what we're seeing here is so fantastic
	I mean, after all, a wrench, for example, a solid metal wrench at the beginning of this video just takes off and flies up out of camera range.
	Where did these, what kind of, was this a chamber or where was this?
	Well, this particular location, there was many different other locations, but this one was in a sub-basement of a large building.
	Okay.
	We were trying to find target areas, and we found this particular target area to be extremely active.
	So, I was holding a camera with, and actually kind of scared, too, because you don't know where these things are going to land.
	Well, yeah, I was going to ask you that.
	Take the wrench, for example.
	This thing takes off and just flies straight up.
	Now, where did it go?
	Sometimes the samples will hit the beans on top and bounce off onto another angle onto the floor, or they would simply, it appears, That the movement of the earth has something to do with the slight slant movement of these things.
	Right.
	And they just go into another storage bin next to that storage area there.
	That was pretty impressive, I think.
	Yeah, no, not pretty impressive.
	It's really, really, really, really impressive.
	And you were using that same setup, or what were you using to cause what we're seeing here?
	I was using a lot more equipment than I was back in the early 80s.
	Can you describe specifically what you were doing, or do you not wish to?
	Oh, I don't mind at all.
	Okay, describe then exactly, technically, what you were doing in case somebody wants to try and duplicate this.
	Well, I had a lot of equipment running at that time, and I'd set the units on, once I got them tuned up with a lot of heat, That with all these things and they sort of drift and you
	have to keep adjusting them until you start getting effects, right?
	so in this particular case I
	Had some friends there fell from Germany actually holding the camera one time while I was doing this
	Actually the German government got involved in this stuff, too
	89 90 and
	Then I'd hold the camera and you keep an eye on the lab So, you know spontaneous fires coming out of the walls or
	concrete which is recorded I know it sounds wild.
	No, no, no.
	With what's happening here, I would be very concerned about other things happening.
	Yeah.
	But again, what I'm asking for is, technically, what did you have on to produce this Vect?
	At this particular time, I went very big with the lab.
	Instead of only 4,000 watts, 110 volts, I was up to close to Uh, 3,000 watts, 110 volts, input into all the equipment.
	I had, um, the 1,000,000 volt, um, Tesla coil running.
	Okay.
	The, uh, 2,000,000 volt electrostatic unit I made running at that time, along with a half a million volt electrostatic unit with Van de Graaff generators.
	Okay.
	I had a unit called, which helped a lot, called simply, it's Army surplus, called device 17 by 15.
	It's a, a radar, programmable radar system.
	For counterintelligence and countermeasures?
	Radar systems?
	Yes.
	I just put out X-band radar at, oh, maybe roughly 10 to, as I recall, 100 milliwatts.
	Okay.
	That was focused into the field.
	And I had also a pulsating magnetron, a mechanically pulsed magnetron.
	Good Lord, you had a whole soup of things electromagnetic and otherwise going on in there.
	Quite a bit.
	I had at least in equipment weight from that time period by the moving company, 22 tons of stuff.
	Well that's... 22 tons?
	22 tons.
	I peaked up at that level.
	Had so many different, also other experiments running too.
	John, if I might ask, equipment of this magnitude would take some amount of financing to put together?
	That it would.
	Now if you're to buy these things, Off the shelf, you'd be running into many, many millions.
	Right.
	However, in Canada, there's many scrap yards, surplus yards, where it seemed the stuff came to me.
	I'd go to one place called Convoy Electrical Machinery, and there I found almost the exact duplicate of the Colorado Springs Tesla transformer, Westinghouse 56 KVA.
	Right.
	And basically, they didn't want it, and they said they'd deliver it.
	They wanted to get rid of it.
	And over and over again, I set up a network where people told me, saying, well, we got a Siemens transformer, DC voltage, 200,000 volts.
	So people liked what you were doing, in other words, and as they heard about it, they made donations.
	They made donations.
	Of stuff.
	Basically, yeah.
	They gave stuff, and sometimes I've had to purchase stuff, but it was dirt cheap.
	We had so much Army surplus, so much other types of surplus, and the old wire, even Back a hundred years ago, let's say, was available in the scrapyard.
	Nobody wanted it, except me.
	Except you.
	All right.
	Hold on, John.
	Hold it right there.
	You've got to see this.
	Folks, to my website, artbell.com, to program tonight's guest info and the videos.
	Seeing is believing.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Back now to John Hutchinson and...
	And, John, It says here that your effect has been very well documented and seen many times by credentialed scientists and engineers.
	Now, if credentialed scientists or engineers were to actually witness what I'm seeing on video tape, I'd be real curious what they'd have to say.
	Oh, they'd get very excited.
	They'd get extremely excited.
	Yeah.
	And say what?
	I mean, surely their scientific minds... They just go wild.
	They want to get funding to put this into a more controlled laboratory situation.
	There's reports written about it.
	Like people from Donald Douglas or from Boeing or from other national laboratories.
	They want to see it go.
	But I guess perhaps the effects are so Dramatic so astounding in some ways that a lot of the funding of course would be turned down.
	It says metal samples turn transparent.
	You mean like steel?
	What kind of metal?
	I don't know exactly because I let the scientific teams analyze everything because I'd be too busy operating the equipment.
	So you were operating the equipment producing the effect and they were examining the results.
	They were examining the results and filming the results.
	Metals turn to jelly.
	What do you know about that?
	Anything?
	Well, I do know that there's some unique, very exotic subatomic structures that I feel that would perhaps allow this to decouple.
	I actually believe in gravitons and chronons, time particles, and many other subatomic particles.
	I also believe that there's an amazing amount of energy out there that if it's triggered, or tickled, or tweaked... And that's what you think you're doing?
	That's what I think I'm doing.
	Now, the results have been duplicated a tiny bit by a friend and well-respected scientist, Ken Shoulders, and well-respected scientist, Richard Hall, on the invisibility factor.
	Invisibility.
	Again, boy, I'll tell you, we're really brushing up against the Philadelphia Experiment in more ways than one.
	So, the tale told of the Philadelphia Experiment, at least technically, I don't know whether you've ever heard it or not, But what they used really sounded an awful lot like what you're doing.
	I was highly fascinated by the Philadelphia Experiment.
	I read some of the books that were published in the early days, and some U.S.
	scientist in New York, Dr. Guy Ogilinsky, suggested to me to fine-tune the frequencies I was using, and I got similar results, which I did do.
	Unbeknownst to me was after analysis of the metals and videos and that, that these things would show up later on.
	What made you decide on, for example, 455 kilohertz?
	It seemed to be a magical frequency, the fundamental frequency of many things.
	I was basically, for about ten years prior to the discovery, I didn't promote this.
	But ten years prior to this, I enjoyed playing with radio equipment, Tesla machines, and was quite immersed in it.
	Lived quite a lonely lifestyle in Lynn Valley, North Vancouver.
	That's another part of Vancouver.
	I had a lot of time to play with these things.
	You began at what age?
	Oh, good heavens.
	I was intrigued by this stuff since I was probably five years old.
	Five years old.
	So then you were well into experimentation in your teens?
	Oh, yes.
	I scared Vancouver into believing that there was a UFO invasion.
	You did?
	In 1965.
	It made the front page of the Vancouver Sun newspaper.
	You know, I keep hearing, I'm getting a lot of fast blasts right now from Canada, Alberta for example.
	Peter says, I heard that John once shook a telephone pole without any equipment.
	That's right.
	It is right?
	That's a true story.
	Yes, it was a telephone pole outside behind, I guess it would be lab number three.
	Where I moved to in Burnaby, British Columbia.
	In this telephone pole, I thought some truck got caught in guide wires to the pole and I had the equipment on preparing for a run, a test for some people that were coming.
	Right.
	And I looked through my, you know, I just let the machines run.
	I went to the back of the building and was looking at some of this telephone pole moving three feet one way or another.
	Three feet?
	Three feet movement.
	I said, gee, this is dangerous because the wires are coming to my place.
	So I went outside and looked and I didn't see any John, you only sort of know what you're doing, huh?
	people are starting to come out and look around and I thought, oh, it could be the equipment.
	So I slammed the main breakers down. Once I did that, it stopped.
	John, you only sort of know what you're doing, huh? In other words, you know you've learned
	how to fine-tune frequencies and produce effects, but you're not totally sure, are you, what
	Many things I'm not sure.
	It's always an exploration.
	And that's what makes life so interesting, is this ongoing exploration.
	I haven't got all the answers.
	So then apparently in Canada, they know you very well.
	You did what now in Vancouver?
	In Vancouver?
	Yes.
	Something about a UFO?
	Oh, back in 1965, yes.
	I was sending up hydrogen balloons coated with tinfoil.
	Oh.
	I was just doing this because it was a fascinating thing to do and the neighbors basically called the Vancouver Sun Newspaper and the Province Newspaper and the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation and they all came around into the backyard and I was caught basically, but in those days it was kind of a fun thing and even the military people were... They were humored?
	Oh, they were highly humored.
	I wondered, because there are all these UFO blips on radar.
	Uh-huh.
	So, they made their own comments in the newspaper.
	So it was you, and they no doubt used that.
	Yeah, I see.
	Okay.
	Yeah, it was kind of an interesting adventure.
	It just, it's not logical for things to... Would you say they are defying gravity?
	In other words, how would you phrase what's happening to these metal objects and solid objects?
	Well, defying a lot of laws and old laws, I would say, in science.
	But I always find the academics get very upset over this, while the military scientists don't.
	All the military scientists I encountered seem to be highly excited about this.
	Well, I can see why.
	I wrote the reports.
	In Canada, there was a lobby group in the Senate that was lobbying for Ferris Tech.
	Like, I never traveled to any of these places.
	The business people that were doing this, one was George Hathaway.
	He's a scientist.
	The other was Alexis Pizzaro, a well-known oil fellow who basically found me in Lynn Valley and started promoting this effect.
	I, at that time, really didn't think anything of it.
	But Alex said, John, what are you doing?
	You're throwing out metal samples.
	He said, so what?
	As Alex said, it took a year to convince me that what I was doing was very important.
	Thank you.
	Well, when things fly up in the air, John, it shouldn't be too hard to become convinced that you've stumbled into something really big.
	Well, basically I finished grade 8 school as a loner.
	I had agoraphobia.
	I was living kind of in the mountains there and never had any real contact with any kind of scientific community.
	Also, not a lot of social skills, and you didn't even like leaving your agoraphobia.
	That's fear of leaving a house, right?
	Basically, yeah.
	I didn't have any.
	I was a bit of an oddball then, and didn't have that many friends.
	So, to be instantly thrust into the limelight, yeah, it was intriguing.
	Probably very scary for you.
	Yeah, I guess the first...
	The adventure was 78 to 79, almost the end of 79.
	I was picked out as somebody to be harassed by the government at that time under gun control registration.
	I had a large collection of old weapons and stuff.
	So that was my first, I guess, major encounter out in the media.
	But the other one prior to that in 1965 was rather an adventure for me.
	You know, just all these different kinds of feelings that you have at that time.
	And that was gone.
	That was like, you know, a newspaper article, a CBC report, and that disappears.
	I don't even have a copy of that, unfortunately, the CBC report.
	I got the newspaper clip.
	Oh, well, somebody, I'm sure, will help you out.
	But, you know, it's when I was first into the scientific community, I thought to myself, well, you know, I don't have any education.
	I'm still using my fingers to count and all that kind of stuff.
	Why do they think it's so important?
	So they kept convincing me and suggesting things and bringing scientific visitors to the Lynn Valley location.
	This happened for a couple of years.
	And rolling Super 8 film, the old film.
	I don't think you got that.
	What happened was that Alex Pizzaro and George Hathaway suggested I go to Toronto and sign a document.
	Sign a document?
	Yeah.
	I'd never been on an aircraft before, so I took the combined efforts of all my friends, plus Alex Pizzaro and his buddies to get me on an aircraft.
	What kind of document did they want you to sign?
	It was a document in regards to that Alex Pizzaro and George Hathaway Norman Hathaway and Associates could help me in bringing this out into the scientific community.
	Okay.
	It was a four-page document witnessed by an attorney, and after that, I moved from that location in Lynn Valley to yet another location, and the U.S.
	government then got involved.
	The U.S.
	government?
	Oh yeah, they got involved at that time.
	Colonel John B. Alexander was part of the team.
	Oh, I am a friend of Colonel Alexander.
	He sent an email tonight to me saying there's some incorrections or some things wrong in that bio, so I emailed him back saying, oh, yeah, there probably is.
	There's so much stuff going on, I lose track because I never attended anything at the Pentagon.
	Was that NIDS?
	Well, John's working at NIDS now.
	He is, but that was when he was in the military?
	No, I believe when he was in the military.
	I think he was in the Inspector General's Department.
	Right.
	Because I phoned there one time because I was trying to... What happened was I was given different names of all these people that came at that time period in 1983.
	So it took me a long time to get their real names.
	Right.
	And a friend of mine, Lieutenant Colonel John Bearden, Right.
	Tom Bearden, that is, gave me the names, the proper names, which allowed me to track down.
	Then other people came into the scene, like Jack Howcombe at Donald Douglas Aerospace, who did a non-classified experiment for two days and released the videos to me and documentation in his report.
	So he knew Colonel Alexander.
	I see.
	Like I'm saying, I'm trying to cover a lot of territory here.
	A book was just published by Nick Cook of Jane's Defense Weekly on the Black Budget Project, and I'm featured in the book.
	Were you part of a black budget?
	Our black budget here in the U.S., or Canadian black budgets, or both?
	No, probably both.
	Why I've learned to date from this new publication The last couple of months, Lockheed Martin's skunk work has had just an effect now.
	All written down by Nick Cook, who's the Chief Aviation Editor for James Defense Weekly.
	Oh, really?
	I wonder if they regard it as a propulsion system?
	An invisibility system?
	A levitation system?
	What do you think they're doing with it?
	Or should I even be asking?
	You can ask me, I don't mind.
	Okay.
	They're probably advancing it for advanced propulsion technologies.
	That would have been my guess.
	Yeah.
	Let's see.
	Nick was hammering away for a long time on this project to find answers to the black budget, the billion dollar question.
	It first aired in 2000 on TLC, where this Boyd Bushman starts to admit things in showing my videos.
	As a matter of fact, on one of the videos, it says in block letters, I think, TLC.
	So this ran on the Learning Channel?
	Yeah, some of these were on the Learning Channel and Fox TV.
	TLC, I see it.
	As things fly off the table.
	That was a glass of something that just flew off the table with a spoon in it.
	I'm trying to think what that would be.
	so many of these things but uh... they would find the art okay when i do a show for park thirty oh three
	i'm interviewed the use the stock footage and then they'll get a guest on my uh...
	jack how come it down but also a colonel alexander who appeared
	on my behalf on tlc i see or many other people tom balone and i have a curiosity what did john alexander say about
	the hutchinson effect on tlc He gave it a fairly good thing.
	He basically said, I'm trying to go by memory here, it's a nice piece that he did on me, good producers and that.
	Basically, Colonel John B. Alexander said himself, you know, that it's very hard to explain why a steel bar is very hard at one end and the other end is like lead, is one of the things he mentioned on TLC.
	The other is that they had the video analyzed at Los Alamos National Laboratory to see if it was a fake or not.
	Right.
	And it wasn't a fake.
	Right.
	This is the old Super 8 millimeter film.
	The old stuff.
	You sure?
	Oh yeah.
	This is prior to the video stuff that you're seeing now.
	So then somehow it was decided that they would start to get the project going.
	Alex Pizzaro and George Hathaway made their presentation to, I would say, the Pentagon, because it involved a close relationship to Ronald Reagan's Star Wars.
	One general wanted to inform the President right away, but then the other general said, well, what if this turns out to be a fake?
	It would be a very bad embarrassment for the U.S.
	government.
	Now, I'm told this verbally, of course, by Alex Pizzaro and George Hathaway.
	So I decided then to do a look and see.
	So John arranged the team, I believe.
	I don't know all the details yet.
	We were working four months and John would make his appearances once in a while and then
	the whole team came.
	But unfortunately there was a bad element in that team, Bob Freeman or Freiberg.
	We all referred to him as Bad Bob, who basically wanted this thing shut down.
	And John didn't feel that was proper.
	Why did he want it shut down?
	That I don't know.
	I mean, he must have had some argument.
	He must have had an argument of some type.
	I know that he was very much against Tom Bearden talking about classified material.
	For some reason, he got into an argument with Colonel Alexander in the backseat of the car that Alex Pizarro was driving.
	Oh.
	And Alex has simply said, will you guys please tone it down?
	I'm trying to drive.
	But Bob had this thing about security and was very... I felt he just knew something and wanted the thing shut down.
	Just write a bad report.
	And he also accused us actually of having a multi-million dollar laboratory producing these effects with lightning bolts.
	With lightning bolts?
	Yeah.
	That's what I was told by Pissarro.
	Well, no, that couldn't be, because you'd have a complete white-out of the camera taking the pictures.
	I see no lightning bolts.
	For example, one scene in the video, folks, for those of you who can't see it, shows one of those plastic bottles all collapsed in, crushed in, and then slowly coming out.
	Now, what did that?
	That was basically the same field.
	We've tried so many different samples over the years.
	The same field that picked a wrench up off the table?
	The same field that picked all those other heavy things up?
	Collapsed a plastic bottle?
	Yes, it also would lift water out.
	We called that, it was nicknamed the breathing effect by Alex Pizzaro, because we noticed that would happen on solid rubber objects too.
	Really?
	Yeah, we just seemed to squeeze it in and out, in and out.
	Now I could see, I can imagine an effect on a metallic object.
	It's hard to imagine an effect on water, or milk, or something in a glass, and yet, or rubber.
	Yeah.
	And yet, all these things.
	It affects everything.
	For some reason, none of us got hurt in these experiments.
	That's amazing in itself.
	Although we did feel a field pressure.
	That's what I was going to ask.
	Were you able to determine Yes.
	The distance was up to 300 feet away, and that was confirmed to me by an employee of Los Alamos National Laboratory.
	300 feet?
	300 feet away from the lab itself.
	He approached me and said, these are the measurements I got.
	I don't know what they mean.
	I said, that's very interesting.
	I'll take them into consideration.
	A directional aspect.
	In other words, I would think one of the first things they would try and do is to focus and direct the effect, the Hutchinson effect.
	That was the brilliant idea of the very brilliant scientist Jack Houck, MacDonald Douglas, who felt that if we could somehow focus this field, it would be self-lifting.
	So you have to lift the whole lab itself up.
	Yeah.
	All you need is an energy scavenging system and you've got self-power.
	Uh-huh.
	Well, I don't know about that, but I can see the military, for example, would want to focus
	this effect because if you could do that, oh my.
	All right, hold on, John.
	John Hutchinson is my guest.
	I suggest you use this break And I'm very serious about this.
	To go to my website, if you have access to a computer, go to, uh, program, second item down, tonight's guest info, uh, John Hutchinson's name, and click on videos and photos of experiments.
	It's a knockout, I'm telling you.
	From Canada comes John Hutchinson, discoverer of the Hutchinson effect, which is on display on my website right now.
	If you'd like to go to artbell.com, go to a program, Tonight's Guest Info, you really do need to see these videos.
	Objects, not... Levitating might be the wrong word.
	They just literally take up and go.
	I mean, they rocket off the table.
	A multitude of objects made of all kinds of things, not just metal, but glass, liquids, plastics, metal that ends up misshapen on one end and softer on one end than the other, and all kinds of strange things.
	I just had a quick conversation during the news with Colonel Alexander.
	Really, really amazing stuff, and you've got to see it for yourself.
	Alright, playing a little catch-up there.
	You know, looking again at these videos, one criticism somebody might make is, well, these are videos being played in reverse, and these are objects being dropped, not going up, as in levitating, or actually, not levitating so much as just rocketing up.
	Now, I don't, having watched critically with that in mind, I don't think that's possible, because some of these objects Uh, are doing motions that are not consistent at all with being dropped.
	In fact, some of them take off at angles.
	Some of them move sideways for a moment and then take off.
	No, I don't think that could be.
	Uh, in fact, there's one hovering near the broom and it kind of moves sideways and then takes off up.
	Nope.
	Couldn't be a reverse video.
	I've, I'm sure you've heard that, right, John?
	I've heard of reverse videos.
	Yes, I've seen sometimes when you run something backwards it looks pretty interesting and funny.
	Yeah.
	On TV.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, and you can see, is it water in a dish just getting sucked up?
	Is that the one with the blue dish?
	Yes, the blue dish.
	Yeah, that was one of the blue dish ones.
	Now that looks like to me, and I'm going to just sit here and play it again and again, but it looks to me like water is being pulled up.
	Prior to the dish itself being pulled up.
	That's incredible, John.
	Incredible.
	A broom just stands up straight and then takes off.
	Good Lord, John.
	A gremlin's running around in there.
	Okay, I understand that you have had difficulty producing this in front of other observers.
	And it's not always reproducible.
	It's kind of like cold fusion.
	Yeah, in the early days we had a lot of problems with that, of course, but nevertheless the number of people that did come got to see quite a bit.
	But as I got more involved with it, especially after about 86 when the Canadian government came, and later on I got pretty good at it, actually, I feel, anyhow, I got five major effects per hour.
	Five major effects per hour.
	That's pretty good, all right.
	How many observers were able to see this firsthand?
	Sometimes they come in a group.
	I have German groups.
	I have some people from England and U.S.
	Yet more U.S.
	officials would come in and look at these things.
	Do you have any idea, were every one of these aspects that you used, the Tesla coils, the electrostatic voltage, the 455 kilohertz RF, all of these critical to the equation?
	And how critically tuned?
	Tuning is a difficult thing.
	I have to be fully concentrated on tuning these equipments and calibrating them.
	That's why uh... in one giving demonstrations of prefer the scientists
	or the news people to
	the videotape it themselves because i can't concentrate
	you know i have to be almost one with the machines like running a a very precise
	lately on our is are each one of these aspects of the tesla coils
	the electrostatic voltage the rf are they all critical
	They seem to be all linked together.
	All linked together.
	I've tried experiments with one being omitted and then nothing would happen.
	Do you remember when you first saw your first anomalous occurrence as you were I mean, when you began experimenting with all of this, John, what were your expectations?
	What did you expect to happen?
	In the very early days?
	Yes.
	Just basically having fun with these machines.
	Right.
	I would turn off all the lights in the lab, and I'd see all these magical sparks and little balls of light flying around, which intrigued me.
	I like creating things all the time and building these Tesla coils to the old standards of
	Tesla himself.
	I would go and search scrap yards for the old wires, gauges and wire coverings of the
	time period.
	I'd even go right down and build the ornate little fences around these things.
	Basically, I enjoyed doing that and then, of course, these effects started to happen.
	One time we had a sheet of aluminum foil actually floating across the basement of this house
	that I was in.
	Mark Murphy, the landlord's son there, and I were having fun.
	Sometimes we'd throw a round ball of foil into the field and it'd toss it back to us.
	Thank you.
	It was another thing we were doing.
	But when this sheet was floating all six feet off the ground, my landlady, Mrs. Murphy, came down and said, what are you guys doing?
	Sheet of aluminum foil.
	Must have been about two and a half feet long, maybe by a foot or so wide.
	I was just floating there.
	And your landlady came in?
	She came in and told us that we should be outside digging the ditch around the house to keep the water from coming in.
	To do the drain tiles.
	What are you fooling around with all that stuff for?
	This is kind of funny.
	Yeah.
	So, you know, you're maybe the third or fourth person who's been playing with this exact
	stuff that I've interviewed over the years.
	Another man I interviewed, who I nicknamed, my nickname, Madman Markham, created a time machine, or what he thought was a time machine, using very similar technology.
	And he's now nowhere to be found.
	History, he's gone.
	Well, we don't know.
	He rented a gigantic warehouse.
	He had been arrested for stealing some power company transformers, and he was using them in reverse to create very large amounts of voltage.
	And then he was using that to fire some gigantic electromagnets and was creating a field.
	And, you know, he noticed with a small-scale model that He put a little screw, I believe it was, through the field, and the screw literally disappeared.
	And so then he wanted to make a large model.
	Okay.
	And he was determined to walk into this field.
	And we've never heard from him since.
	Now, did by any chance Artie ever experiment with money?
	Like shrinking money?
	Shrinking money?
	Yeah.
	I've seen the facts.
	You're not referring to the stock market, right?
	No, not the stock market.
	You mean physically shrinking money?
	Physically shrinking money to one-third of its size.
	And I saw this at the Denver conference in 1994.
	It was with Brian O'Leary and the whole crew there, Hal Pudoff, when we were giving our lecture.
	Brian O'Leary, yes.
	Let me ask you this, John.
	Did you ever do any biological experiments?
	In other words, Did you ever put anything biological into the field?
	We tried a plant.
	A plant?
	Yeah, a plant, and nothing seemed to happen.
	Interesting.
	Another time, when Alex Pizzaro's wife brought us dinner on a long run.
	We call them long runs, or long burns, just preparing for the next group of visitors.
	We put our dinners in the field, and we waited a while, and we started getting hungry, of course, and we went and got the dinners out.
	Well, Alex said it tasted better, and I said, well, I guess so.
	I don't know.
	I can't tell, Alex, but nothing happened to the food.
	But none of you dared walk into the field and sit down?
	No, I don't think so.
	Well, now you know why I nicknamed him Madman.
	I know that the Canadian news people, they had to get authorization for their television cameras to go in there.
	Really?
	Destroyed a $75,000 camera.
	That's a very good point.
	A very large electromagnetic field could wreak havoc with a very expensive camera.
	No doubt about it.
	But they got the permission.
	We did our show on the national news there and we got a great reception from it.
	Had all kinds of visitors coming in.
	And the same journalist actually appeared on, this is back in 1985, the same journalist appeared on a recent Fox television show.
	Talking about those great old days.
	Well, let me ask you, this combination of technology that you used to produce this effect, what do you believe the Hutchinson effect is, John?
	What do you think you're doing?
	What do you think I'm doing?
	I think I'm basically manipulating, with great familiarity, RF fields, Tesla fields, static electrostatic fields, magnetics, focusing them In a geometric fashion, much like certain electronics, if you get VLF electronics, the physics of it is quite different than HF or to super HF structures of these, let's say, transceivers, for a better analogy here.
	So I feel like what I'm doing, and there's been papers written on this by René-Louis Vallée of France and Andriy Sakharov, I think he's passed on, on what could be happening And it was accepted by the U.S.
	government, this document, which I still have, of course, to keep everything.
	There's some kind of an interdimensional effect happening that influences gravity and time.
	Now, this paper was given to the U.S.
	government guys in 1983 and was accepted.
	And it shows that, of course, you're Tesla Coil or a static generator or an RF generation system can't cause these kind of effects, but in combination somehow they cause some type of second type of distortion.
	In literally shielding... Dimensional or time distortion of some sort?
	Some type of mild time distortion, but heavy gravitational distortion.
	This is just so absolutely incredible.
	become weightless. Some of the objects would actually float.
	And one could actually take photographs of these things. Floating in the air?
	Just floating there. Sitting there floating. And you could actually take a video, just
	take a picture of it. This is just so absolutely incredible.
	I guess how many people just flat, even though they see it, you
	know, even though they see it, they just don't believe it
	I don't know.
	People get very excited with it.
	I had a defense contract lawyer friend who was in Vancouver for a short time who kept talking to me and I was trying to show him that the results were going on, but he said, I said, well, I'll just shut it off now, OK?
	And he said, this is the most exciting thing I've ever seen.
	Here's $100.
	Here's $100?
	He wasn't even looking in the target zone.
	Yeah.
	That's how some people react.
	Others, you know, the scientific teams will be very careful, look for any kind of trickery,
	and seal the area off and then run all the tests and videotape on every angle and use
	videos and super 8mm film, as such as the Canadian government guys did.
	Dr. L.A. Kuhn, head of the Technical Intelligence Agency.
	Now let's talk a little bit about some of the still photographs for those.
	a chunk of metal that is completely distorted by the levitation processes.
	It's a big piece of metal, and then it is, indeed.
	It's fractured, actually.
	It looks like it almost broke in half.
	The energy from that has been calculated by scientists, analyzed by Max Planck Institute, Fraunhofer, and many German labs, to come from within the material outward.
	causing that kind of fracturing. Actually it looks like the fracturing occurred from inside
	coming out the way the material is pushed away.
	That's right. They did extensive tests in Germany on these things and
	that's very interesting that might indicate that whatever the field is
	doing it's disturbing the molecular structure
	of the material itself and the change comes from within in this case.
	That's right.
	There's been extensive tests done by George Hathaway of Toronto University and some of the national laboratories.
	Lawrence Livermore did tests on these kind of same results.
	They find actually impurities coagulate right into pure metals within the sample.
	Really?
	Do an SEM on a scanning electron microscope on an x-ray diffraction analysis fluorescent analysis and Of course, you know, they share the results with me, which is why it's so imperative to have videos and documentation and you sure do second photograph down still photograph is a metal slab with holes in it Uh, one hole on each side, a big metal slab, and by God, impaled inside of this metal slab, and I mean impaled, is a knife.
	You can just sort of, well, you can see the knife coming out of the edge, and you can sort of see it impaled in the metal.
	Now, how in God's name could that happen?
	Sometimes when we're doing experiments, we put a sample on top of another sample.
	Yes.
	And in this particular case, This sample just floated into the material and froze there.
	So what we did... Yeah, but it became part of it.
	It became part of it, yes.
	And then what we do is machine it down to try and see what's in there.
	What's in there?
	Oh my gosh!
	Do you remember the description in the Philadelphia Experiment where horribly, toward the end, human beings were halfway embedded into the ship?
	Yep.
	That reminds me of the piece of wood inside that metal block, which is coming back from New York.
	That's a wood spoon in there?
	It's a block of wood that floated into the metal.
	And I think I sent... I should be getting that back from Dan Aykroyd's show thing that collapsed.
	Okay, hold on.
	Stay right where you are.
	I'm Art Bell with John Hutchinson.
	You've got to see this.
	I'm telling you.
	You've got a computer.
	Get to my website, artbell.com.
	All right.
	Back now to Canada and John Hutchinson.
	Everybody's looking for something, some of them want to use you.
	Alright, back now to Canada and John Hutchinson.
	There's a gold cylinder here and it literally is turned to jelly by this field.
	What kind of cylinder was this?
	Oh, Art, it was a stainless steel, non-magnetic stainless steel bar, approximately six inches long by about three inches in diameter.
	Right.
	And during one of the tests, that was actually quite a long kind of destruction or jelly.
	It turned to jelly.
	That's quite long in its duration.
	I was able to also capture that right on video with the masters.
	The masters really show the stuff better than perhaps what video I sent down to you there.
	Gold is some kind of discoloration of the stainless steel.
	Undetermined.
	That one was not analyzed.
	I have maybe 80% unanalyzed samples.
	The rest were Maybe it's even higher than that, but the rest were analyzed and tested.
	All right.
	Some showing actually material that doesn't exist on Earth, which is kind of interesting.
	Really?
	Alloy.
	Alloy material.
	So how do you speculate that could have happened?
	Massive distortion of the atomic structure.
	Again, feeling that it deals with time and gravity.
	I feel that everything has a gravity field around it, and that these gravity fields are produced by some kind of subatomic reaction.
	Have you ever put any timekeeping device in the field?
	No, not yet.
	That's been suggested.
	We never got around to a lot of good things that we should have done.
	Do you still have the equipment that produced these results?
	No.
	You don't?
	Well, I had an offer from a team in Germany and a team in Austria that financed everything.
	safety wait wait wait wait wait we wait wait why were you going to first of all why were
	you going to ship all of the equipment to germany as a matter of interest
	well i had an offer from a team in germany and a team in austria
	that financed everything and i really wanted by this time to get out of
	uh... the group that is involved with were connected to boeing
	i thought there was going to be a major takeover in there they were suggesting that i get back into the military
	to study this effect as a psychotronic thing.
	So I dug my heels in there and I felt I didn't want to go through this route again because you can't talk about it, you can't be sort of a showman, which I am in some ways.
	The German team were very supportive and sent large amounts of money over.
	Managed to get some of it into shipping containers within two hours of raiding the lab, which was locked up on me.
	They raided the lab?
	We did.
	With armed guards, moving people.
	But two hours into that move, the police came.
	Yes.
	And also the people that were connected to Boeing came.
	Yes.
	And stopped it.
	So a lady, a friend of mine, Yin Gazda, she is a filmmaker from Hollywood.
	Um, got lawyers to sign the lab over to her as a movie set.
	By this time, things are getting so complex.
	No, no, no, no.
	Again, I'm sorry, back up.
	Under what authority did the police seize what you had, or Boeing for that matter?
	What authority they would have to seize that at that time?
	When the lab was in operation, I was president of my own company, Axon General Systems.
	So they got rid of me, fired me as the president.
	Uh-huh.
	And this is getting kind of sticky, so that I couldn't even get into my own lab.
	So the German group, at the same time, in Germany, were preparing for me to move there, and decided to literally charge the place, get the stuff out, all this equipment, get it in shipping containers, and get it to Germany.
	Sure.
	But unfortunately, that didn't transpire.
	So the lawyers filed in the B.C.
	Supreme Court for a trial on all of this stuff.
	And the attorneys then thought that they could actually arrange by contact to government people to have it released and put in shipping containers, which it eventually did get into shipping containers.
	What happened was the government seized it.
	The two containers.
	The government seized the containers?
	Seized the containers.
	Again, if I can ask, under what authority?
	I mean... Oh, their excuse was it contained polychlorinated biphenyls, or PCBs.
	And normally Tesla coils and those kind of machines don't.
	The test gear, yes.
	This is an interesting story, because they tried to keep it a secret, but again, the press found out about it.
	And made the front page of the Vancouver Sun newspapers.
	Okay.
	Can you recall the date that made the front page of the Vancouver Sun?
	1990, February 22, approximately.
	1990, February 22nd.
	About that time.
	Okay.
	I got a copy of it, of course.
	Okay.
	I got a copy of it from a journalist when I was in Europe.
	Do you have a copy of that article handy?
	Yeah.
	Can you read me part of it?
	I would like to hear about that.
	Oh, well, I got it in my... Like, I got so many documents there in boxes, it would take me a while to... Well, that's all right, then.
	But I can, you know, I can always JPEG it and send it.
	Okay.
	That's no problem.
	All right.
	Sometime, I mean, I would have to do it later.
	All right, what was the article like?
	I mean, it talked about your materials being seized.
	Basically saying that ministry, that's part of the government up here, secretly builds There's a PCB site in Surrey, and it goes into the article, and there was this paper chase.
	They found all these weird machines, big glass balls with wires coming out of them.
	It involved a lot of officials from the police department, from other governments who were there.
	I'm trying to remember.
	Lynn was one name.
	And then it goes on in this lab being moved, and then it states, Inventor Goes to Ground.
	It's kind of a typical newspaper story thing.
	What do they mean by Inventor Goes to Ground?
	You, uh... Well, basically... Disappeared?
	Well, not that.
	It seems that, uh, it's kind of a statement that newspaper people use.
	Yes?
	Meaning that, uh, well, here is this guy doing levitation experiments, and I guess when they took the lab, The guy can't levitate anything, so he goes to ground, I guess.
	I think that's the jargon that the newspapers... Normally, here, when you say somebody goes to ground, that means they go to hiding.
	Oh, no.
	So that was a little pun.
	It was a bit of a pun, yeah.
	I see.
	It covered a bit of the story, the paper chase, and who is John Hutchison kind of thing.
	Where'd he go to?
	Although they knew I was in Germany, because I got contacted by Yeah, they charged the house that I was staying in because they felt that I was being held captive by people from the East Block.
	I know there is East Block interference, a lot of it, and I wrote to Dr. Pappas in Greaseland,
	in Greece that is, it's Greaseland is the German word, but he said no there's a game
	It's a dangerous game.
	Be careful.
	The game of the agents involves names and all that, so the Germans were protecting me.
	However, I assure you... The East Germans were protecting you?
	No, no.
	The fellow in Greece, Dr. P.T.
	Pappas, was protecting me with information which I passed on to the German people who were protecting me against any kind of interference from the East Bloc people that wanted this technology.
	Basically, Interpol made a decision that I am A-OK, I'm not being kidnapped, and wrote the reports and filed them somewhere.
	Where?
	I don't know.
	Then I got a phone call from Henry Champ of NBC, and he said, this is going to be a very odd question, Mr. Hutchison.
	Are you being kidnapped?
	Well, I said, not that I'm aware of.
	I kind of have a sense of humor about these things.
	Basically, he apologized and said, OK, I just wanted to know if somebody was worried about you being kidnapped.
	And I said, no, things are going well.
	Then when I phoned the Canadian government, I was warned that if I returned to Canada, to Vancouver, that I might be arrested.
	Arrested?
	Yep.
	For what?
	For having this laboratory.
	I don't know why.
	However, when I had to come back here, I did meet the representative, Richard Glue, of the Environment Protection Agency, and he showed me all these documents, which he actually gave them to me, showing all the procedures and things that went on when I was away about this laboratory.
	Basically, he said, well, this is something I can tell my grandchildren, kind of thing.
	You said you have some of it in storage for me.
	Which he did have, and that was all the test equipment.
	With the PCBs.
	Anything related to Tesla was gone.
	Anything related to Tesla was gone?
	Totally gone.
	And, which contained no PCBs.
	And so, this big group you do about PCBs, they didn't give a damn about anyway, obviously, because they were going to give it back to you.
	Did?
	They did give it back to me, and I was so ticked off.
	So it was all BS in the first place.
	They wanted access to the parts of the equipment they wanted.
	And they got it, too.
	Because I tried, through my dad's ideas of trying to contact the different government officials, I got one person who said, well, it costs $20,000 to move it.
	I said, OK, but where is it?
	And they just said, well, we don't know.
	We don't know.
	And to this very day, that part of the equipment is gone?
	To this very day, it's gone.
	Something surfaced a couple of years ago that the location of the lab was put under what they call the Alex Fraser Bridge.
	It's a huge suspension bridge in Vancouver on a vacant lot.
	And this action of them putting all this stuff was tipped.
	The Vancouver Sun papers off saying something strange is going on here.
	So that's how it got into the press.
	when Canadian television network tried to get down there to videotape all this
	stuff they were blocked by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. Wow. Yeah it
	sounds crazy but it's more of... well I shouldn't use that word but I was...
	East of the Rockies called hole free...
	All that stuff.
	All right, wait a minute.
	I'm kind of running around here.
	Don't name the company.
	I took that out.
	But you were coerced, you said, by some agents of a company?
	Canadian Security Intelligence.
	Coerced how?
	That they wanted me to work with them.
	They paid me $300.
	This is stepping back a couple years prior to the stealing of the lab.
	$300 what?
	Per week to be the first to have their first options with me to work with them.
	Sorry, I'm jumping back and forth.
	That's quite all right.
	And you told them what?
	Well, I told them, OK, let's see what happens.
	So you took their $300 a week?
	I took their $300 a week, and I was curious in what these people were going to do.
	Because by this time, I was away from George Hathaway and the protection of the U.S.
	government guys like Colonel Alexander, who I respect really highly in his opinions and correcting me for certain mistakes I might make in my talks.
	But these guys started bad-mouthing Alex Pizzaro, who actually founded me and some of the other scientists at that time.
	All of a sudden, They simply just disappeared.
	This company was totally gone.
	They didn't exist.
	Next step was the Boeing people that came in.
	And then, of course, the next step was the lab, was to be transferred to Germany, actually to Austria, into a massive laboratory by very high-ranking scientists that That's a good point you brought up.
	We felt it would be, at that point, an easy move.
	assuming that they have the financial means and it sounded like they did uh...
	in europe why not
	rebuild uh... or duplicate the machinery in europe uh... tech was sending it over there why not
	try and duplicate it over there that's a good point you brought up we felt it would be uh...
	at that point in the people uh... other circumstances happened however
	in in europe at that time is over for two years now in in one of those years
	the german groups are working with the lawyers to get the lab over there and all
	that other stuff is going on and actually sent representatives from switzerland
	over there too
	uh... talk to these people to release the goods so by that time things shifted and i got kind of burned out
	on all of this stuff cause yeah sounds like you went through a lot alright
	Oh my God.
	And then you're thinking you're going to come back to Canada and they're going to arrest you and throw you in jail.
	That's what I'm told.
	So I took a chance of coming back here and I met with the reps there from the government and didn't get thrown in jail.
	I got so angry there with this.
	I have a double garage full of stuff to the ceiling of all my test equipment.
	And basically they wanted me to put it in full operation again.
	Oh, I thought that's what I thought too.
	I thought this is odd.
	This is extremely strange.
	I just disobeyed that order and I sold everything off to the local ham radio operators.
	And what I couldn't sell off, I dumped into the scrapyard.
	Are you a ham, by the way?
	Oh, I'm fascinated by ham.
	I don't have a license, but... You're not a licensed ham.
	I'm fascinated by ham and vacuum tube technology.
	Love the stuff.
	I'm a surplus nut.
	I can tell from the video when all your equipment was there.
	We do have a video showing your lab.
	It's kind of a dark video.
	Yeah.
	But you can see just rows and rows and rows and rows and rows of what looks like military surplus gear.
	Oh, I love it.
	I went on a buying spree when I got my inheritance.
	I went to, I think, about $20,000 worth of stuff from fair radio sales in Ohio.
	So you had a little financial help to do all this?
	Well, people keep throwing me chunks of money once in a while.
	I had Japanese people throwing me bits of money, England, Germany.
	They keep me just floating after I've returned from Germany.
	Well, I sure would like to know if your field would affect a timepiece
	and what kind of effects it would have on biological organisms.
	You never tried cats, dogs, or mice or...
	It goes against my religion, that kind of stuff.
	Uh-huh.
	All right.
	Listen, what I would like to do is, in the next hour coming up, by now I think enough
	people have seen your videos so that we can take some good, intelligent questions for
	you from the audience.
	How would that be?
	Sounds like fun to me.
	All right, good.
	Then in that case, here's what I'm going to ask.
	I'm going to ask that those of you who have seen the still photographs and those of you who have seen the videos on my website, call up.
	And it's really one of those things that you've got to see.
	I mean, you have just got to see it.
	That's all there is to it.
	So if you've seen it, and if you have a question for John Hutchinson, of the John Hutchinson, or the Hutchinson Effect.
	Pick up your telephone, and let's hear from you.
	Once again, John Hutchinson.
	And, uh, John, you never did, uh, you did levitation, uh, but you never did personal levitation.
	You never... Or did you?
	Me, personally, fly up in the air?
	No.
	No.
	Okay.
	No.
	I would love to.
	That's, you know, a kid's dream, but, uh, no.
	All right, well, somebody named Frode, F-R-O-D-E, in Trondheim, Norway, says, Art, I corresponded with John years ago.
	Get to the part of levitation.
	He did that, too.
	So when he means levitation, he means that you were able to suspend objects in midair.
	Well, yes.
	That's one of the effects is objects being suspended in midair.
	Yes.
	Well, people can actually just take a photograph of it.
	Okay, let me go to the phones now, and I have no idea what we're going to get, John.
	We'll see.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with John Hutchinson in Canada.
	Hello.
	Yes, this is Brian calling from New York City.
	Yes, sir.
	Yes, I'm a former Persian Gulf veteran, and we had to go through obstacles, and I was in a tank, an M1 Abrams.
	Do you think that the Hutchinson field could be used as a weapon?
	Which would discombobulate the tanks, you know, rip the metal apart and levitate the tanks, causing all kinds of confusion.
	Thank you.
	You're welcome.
	Of course, we saw some of our more conventional smart weapons levitating tanks, but that was immediately following large explosions.
	John?
	Yeah, I suppose in that area it could be used as a weapon.
	I wish not to see that happen.
	I wish to see it Yeah, that would be our military, and as you pointed out, you do like to talk publicly and show publicly what you're doing.
	advanced propulsion workshop by Mark Millis. I think it was presented well, but weaponry
	I'm not into that.
	That would be our military, and as you pointed out, you do like to talk publicly and show
	publicly what you're doing. And the military, when you get involved with them, they don't
	like that at all, do they?
	No, that's why I refuse many contracts.
	Alright, Wild Card Line, you're on the air with John Hutchinson, hello.
	Hello, hello Art, this is Bob from Los Angeles.
	Yes sir.
	Yes, I've been following Mr. Hutchinson's experiments for about ten years now, and I've been trying for five years to get him on your show.
	I thought he was sort of ended up like Tesla, hit by a car in a street corner.
	But yeah, you're going the right way there, with not Going after the military aspect and supporting life.
	I was thinking that this is basically a propulsion system for a craft that could virtually leave this planet.
	I'm thinking that our atmosphere is thinning so much year by year that eventually we may need what you have designed to leave this planet and go elsewhere and probably end up saving life on this planet.
	You're aware of that, right?
	Yeah, I'm aware of that, and it also could be used for control of all the radioactive waste.
	There are some experiments there that I did some years ago that made radioactive material inert.
	It also could help sweep the atmosphere and make a resurrection of an environment.
	That's what I like to see happen also with this kind of technology.
	Yeah, that's true.
	Have you been hypnotically regressed because There's a lot of people with Limited who haven't been to Harvard Universities and stuff who've came up with incredible inventions such as yourself, and I believe myself that I've worked with Lockheed and my education wasn't so great, but I've came up with incredible ideas that are just beyond my abilities.
	I don't know how it happened to other people.
	What happens is somehow it got in your mind.
	I think if you could be hypnotically regressed to get the full aspect of what you know out of your mind, because I believe what's in your subconscious is drifting over to your conscious, that's how you're doing this pretty much.
	Do you believe in hypnotic regression?
	Maybe somehow this got in your mind somehow?
	Do you ever think about that?
	I have thought in many areas why I'm like this, why I have this drive to do these things, and why anything I need seems to come to me.
	For me to perform this.
	And do you think that this Tesla technology is actually tapping into what's called zero point energy to do this?
	Without a question.
	Without a doubt.
	Because it gives all the energy you need to perform the effects.
	You can have a terawatt of radio frequency stuff being poured out.
	It wouldn't do anything except maybe heat up a metal sample at A little bit at maybe 20 feet, but again, it's a combination of these fields that seem to produce something else.
	Right, right.
	In every case we've heard with these sorts of effects, it's been these exact combinations.
	There was a connection to Area 51 with Lockheed Martin.
	What was that all about?
	Well, my friend, Nick Cook of Jane's Defense Weekly, chief aviation editor, went into the United States to check out why So much money to be used for the Black Budget Project.
	I think the show was called The Billion Dollar Question.
	So he did many interviews until he was extremely lucky that Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works interviewed Boyd Bushman, who had copies of my tape and showed them.
	This, I didn't know, was on television.
	I was getting phone calls the next day and people were saying, gee, that's incredible stuff that's going on there.
	I did email the Skunk Works people for Boyd Bushman, but I didn't get through. I didn't
	get a response. Then later on, just about a month or so ago, Nick's book came out explaining
	everything. I'm featured in the book. I'm a big fan of the book. I love it. I'm a big
	I'm reading stuff that I never even knew transpired with all the CIA guys and all the defense contractors and Boyd Bushman.
	And I just learned a week ago that there's a court fight between Bushman and Lockheed Martin over something.
	Well, how does Area 51 get into this?
	Area 51 is, I believe personally, from bits and pieces of stuff I hear, It is for Advanced Propulsion Technology Research.
	So do you think they might be testing the essence of your work at Area 51 with Kraft?
	I wouldn't be a bit surprised.
	Nor would I. Alex Pizarro said he felt we let them too close to our projects shortly before Alex passed away.
	You have some kind of connection with Ollie North?
	No, Oliver North, yes, yes, he wrote me a letter.
	He wrote you a letter?
	Yes, he's wanting some help and funding and stuff.
	Yes, I was back in the 80s.
	I got all sorts of strange mail.
	I got mail from the Shah of Iran, I think.
	I have never deciphered his card.
	The Shah of Iran?
	I got some letters or postcards or whatever they are from Bill Clinton.
	I don't know Bill Clinton, except, you know, he's the President of the United States.
	Yes, he was.
	I kind of liked him.
	He's kind of an interesting person.
	I opened up my mailbox and it says, from the White House.
	I said, oh yeah, sure, probably my friend down there in Los Angeles who has a house called the White House and he promotes kombucha tea, which is a nutritional drink.
	Can I open this thing up?
	I'm thinking, uh-oh, this is real.
	This is really from the White House.
	It's Bill Clinton and Hillary.
	I assume that some scientists, when your field is operational, have checked background radiation, right?
	They do all the testing.
	And what was found?
	Was there any increase in background radiation at all?
	The normal background radiation dropped down to only a few counts per minute.
	So it actually reduced the background radiation?
	Yeah, which I thought was rather intriguing.
	That is intriguing.
	Very intriguing.
	Almost a monkey wrench in well-readied, sort of a Pandora's box of... Yes.
	...hair-pulling kind of experiments.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hutchinson.
	Hello.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	Firstly, I greatly value your show art, and I have this question for John.
	I was curious about the apparatus that you use in the exact configuration or positioning of either Tesla coils or Van de Graaff generators.
	With respect to each other, to produce levitational effects.
	Okay.
	Very good question.
	They have to be very precisely put in geometric patterns.
	Is there a way you can describe distances or the exact patterns they're in?
	How far apart they are?
	Actually, within, okay, how far apart they would be, perhaps, maximum three feet.
	Three feet apart?
	Yeah, and I found always that things, units put in threes, work best.
	And as I advanced into this more and more, of course I would put things in coils and Van de Graaffs and twos and threes.
	But a DC component is extremely important in this area too, I found out in my later research, and that's pulsating DC spheres.
	Pulsating DC what?
	Well, that's what Dr. Kuhn says.
	Well, John, I don't know.
	You don't keep notes, and also, I'm amazed that you're still standing here.
	Yeah, yeah, I am, too.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hutchinson.
	Hello.
	effects enormously.
	Well, you're lucky you didn't fry yourself alive.
	Well, that's what Dr. Kuhn says.
	Well, John, I don't know.
	You don't keep notes, and also I'm amazed that you're still standing here.
	Yeah, yeah, I am too.
	Western Rockies, you're on the air with John Hutchinson.
	Hello.
	Yes, good morning, gentlemen.
	Good morning.
	Dr. Hutchinson, I'm really intrigued, as you were saying with this, and the couple questions
	I hope I didn't I didn't see the first part of the show or hear the first part. Well, I don't think it's doctor
	he's a in less honorary in honorary
	Somebody just send me an a a a s Thing and then it got sort of in a website there and some
	lady printed all Oh, that's where I saw it, on the website.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I like my coloring book in black, so.
	That would be quite the official doctor.
	Well, you should be, but a couple of questions that I had were, the videos and the pictures are extraordinary, and I was just wondering, has anyone, like I said, I missed the first part of the show, has any professional videographers gotten pictures of I guess better video and the pictures are great.
	But also, do you have any plans on reproducing?
	Has anybody attempted to give you funding or something like that to reproduce this equipment?
	In other words, let's do it again?
	Oh yes, definitely.
	There was a talk in 1997.
	A friend of mine, who I really respect as a scientist, wrote to Prince Adam Liechtenstein, who has known me for 12 years, for funding.
	To get the Hutchison Effect moved from Canada down to Bodega Bay, California and set it up in operation so that the scientists, such as John Alexander or Ken Shoulders or Dr. Elizabeth Van Roger, can come in and see what I'm doing.
	So they can take notes and extrapolate and calculate certain things that I'm doing and get it into a logical, scientific format.
	Did you say 1999?
	Did you say 1999? Sorry, 1997. And nothing ever came of it?
	And nothing ever came of it?
	No.
	I have many letters from Prince Liechtenstein, and he was willing at the time to try something, but he then dropped it.
	Well, in 1999 I did able to duplicate a toy UFO right up to the ceiling right here.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	I cheated a little bit.
	I used extra high voltage overhead on the ceiling, so it wasn't really the true essence Okay, let me ask this, John.
	Thank you, caller.
	How much money, right now, would it take, do you think, John, to put together the equipment to duplicate this or maybe even do it on a larger scale?
	I'll have to let go by the words of Dr. Robert Forward in regards to, at this point, it'd pretty well be in too many millions to replicate that stuff I once had.
	Now, I put a lot in here.
	I do research in here.
	But it's limited because it's an apartment.
	And when I did the 99 Experiment for Fox TV, I was lucky.
	It was a Canadian holiday.
	But the field affected the building across the street.
	The police came in sirens, which I have on video.
	You affected the building across the street in what way?
	We used to have funny things happen in the 80s and, of course, 99.
	Is that when the field goes through into another structure, it moves objects around like dishes?
	Uh-huh.
	That would tend to upset people.
	They get angry, and when they look across here, they see this balcony of mine, which is an antenna farm from antennas that got off of Navy warships.
	And so you're the obvious target.
	No, I'm the obvious target.
	I know the feeling, believe me.
	First time caller on the air with John Hutchinson.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi, where are you?
	I'm in Morgantown, West Virginia.
	Okay.
	Yeah, I have just one simple question.
	I'm interested in trying to recreate some of the basic stuff myself.
	One, is that feasible?
	And two, if so, how do I do it?
	Alright, he wants to recreate.
	Is it feasible for him to try?
	I mentioned that I had an interesting talk with Ken Shoulders.
	Even on a smaller scale, John?
	Yeah.
	I would recommend start working with Tesla coils and Van de Graaff generators together.
	You may get some interesting results.
	And expand from there.
	Okay, so what are the basics of what I would do with them?
	How do I make them interact?
	Just put them in proximity to each other and activate them?
	You could do that.
	I would recommend highly follow your own instincts in this area.
	Okay.
	And your scientific wisdom.
	Okay.
	That's what I recommend.
	Give it a try caller and let us know what happens.
	Most definitely, I'll be sure to.
	Okay, very good.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with John Hutchinson.
	Hello.
	All right, this is Steve in Glendore.
	Yes, hello.
	You know, I happened to see that video and I studied it quite closely when it ran on
	on the Learning Channel.
	And I got the impression that it was the old Hollywood illusion where you construct your set upside down and you use magnets and gravity to manipulate an object before you remove the magnet and it falls to the floor.
	Now that was the impression I got.
	Okay, I too watched the video again and again, Caller, and the only problem I had with that, it could be a backwards video, except that several of the objects move in a lateral direction Uh, before they take off?
	No, not backwards.
	Literally, where you build the set upside down.
	Like, if I remember, there was a trash can in the shot and all that.
	That stuff is nailed up, basically, on the ceiling.
	And then, you film it so that it looks like it's right side up, when in fact it's upside down.
	You have a magnet on the roof, holding the objects.
	You manipulate the objects with the magnet.
	They kind of dance around a little bit.
	You remove the magnet, and it plummets to the floor, but it looks like it's falling up, when in fact it's falling down.
	That's an interesting one.
	What came to my mind was an old movie by Fred Astaire where he was tap dancing on the walls of a building.
	Is that what you mean?
	Yeah, well, something similar to that.
	But now here's the thing.
	Look, I wasn't there, so I don't know.
	But here's another thing that I considered.
	Is it possible that your laboratory was located on one of the planet's ley lines or near one of the planet's ley lines so that that helped the effect that you were trying to create?
	Is it possible?
	That's a really, really good question.
	I'll hold it right there.
	John, what about that?
	Is it true that it might work in some places and not other places?
	No, it seemed to work in all different locations.
	There's about five different locations where the laboratory was and Uh, the greater Vancouver area.
	And there was no difference.
	It worked.
	Period.
	Yeah, it worked.
	A lot of people are curious about these magnetic ley lines and think things like this are more likely at those points.
	But maybe this is an effect that just can be done.
	All right.
	Hold on, John.
	We'll be right back from the high desert.
	I'm Art Bell.
	And, uh, John, let's, uh, go out of the country and say hi.
	You're on the air on the international line.
	Where are you calling from, please?
	Hello?
	Hello?
	Oh, hi, Art.
	Um, this is, uh, through the calling from Trondheim in Norway.
	Oh, you're the one that fast-blasted me.
	Uh-huh, that's right.
	Um, hi, John.
	How are you doing?
	I corresponded with you, oh, say, around 91, 92.
	I don't know if you remember.
	Oh, I would probably have your letters in my files somewhere.
	Oh, great.
	I just vaguely remember something now.
	Yeah, right.
	I corresponded with you and George Hathaway also.
	That's right.
	And you said you didn't do much documentation of your research.
	But actually, I'd say the correspondence that you did around those years actually serves as your documentation.
	The documentation?
	Yes, you said you didn't publish much of your research.
	No, not me.
	Other scientists publish it a lot.
	I must have at least a cubic John, I wondered if I could ask you something.
	You're actually then, you are the demonstrator.
	I'm the demonstrator, the showman, but the other scientists seem to want to make notes
	and write stories and books.
	They're the ones that have been documenting it for you, all right, I see.
	John, I wondered if I could ask you something.
	In my correspondence with you, I discussed the Kalsky-Frost effect.
	I believe it was 1965 or 1956, I don't remember.
	Polish researcher, Kolsky and Frost, they did this microwave HF field levitation of a crystal device.
	Okay, I'm familiar with that.
	George Hathaway also did actually a replication of that experiment using a microwave oven.
	Do you remember what I'm talking about?
	Yes, I remember seeing those documents.
	I still have them.
	I didn't repeat that experiment.
	I would think perhaps George Hathaway, of course, did.
	Did George inform you that he got some results?
	Oh, he's already gone.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	So you were, anyway, aware of that experiment using microwave?
	Yeah, yeah.
	That's an old experiment.
	Alright, uh, Woz to the Rockies.
	You're on the air with John Hutchinson.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Woz to the Rockies.
	Going once.
	Hello?
	Yes, hello.
	Yes.
	Um, very, very interesting show tonight.
	Thank you.
	I'd like to find out, uh, did anybody disappear from that building?
	Was anybody in that building that disappeared, first of all?
	I have another question after this.
	Okay.
	Nope.
	No.
	I was not aware of it until my colleagues informed me about all this.
	I can't tell you.
	I was not aware of anything myself.
	So you don't know of anybody that was reported missing after that?
	Not that I'm aware of.
	Okay.
	Ma'am?
	Okay.
	Also, do you have any books or videos that people like myself could buy?
	They're all over the place.
	You don't personally offer them, then, John?
	I try.
	There's film companies that want to make a movie on yours truly here, Miramax.
	I send out so much stuff.
	There are production companies in Los Angeles, Harry Delighter Productions, and they have some of my work there on video.
	It's very nicely done by Harry Delighter.
	Let's try this.
	Is there a way to get hold of you?
	Do you have an email address that you can give out or anything?
	Yes, I have an email address.
	It's h-effect at infinite dot net.
	Wait a minute, I want to get this.
	h-effect at infinite dot net?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And also, on the internet, if you look under Yahoo Search or Google Search, under Hutchinson, in fact, there's many websites there that show my work and tell what's the latest things that are going on.
	Alright, so a lot of people can do easy research and get ahold of you directly, even if they wish.
	Oh, sure.
	Alright.
	I love people.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with John Hutchinson.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I can barely hear you, sir, even.
	Yes.
	John, question for you on your work out there.
	Were you ever to put it on a spinning table of any type to produce this effect?
	Do you mean put the equipment on a spinning table?
	Yes.
	An inside-out motor will levitate, because we've done it here in Pittsburgh with a Ph.D.
	that was part of the Philadelphia Experiment.
	He should be able to do the same thing, in that the Tesla effect of the coils, in the Philadelphia experience, they use four.
	He's only using three.
	But the concept there of the coils and the frequency of DC, you should be able, if you can get a table to go up to 2,000 revolutions, by its power, it'll probably take over and levitate for you.
	It's called an inside-out motor.
	And then, of course, other cooling to control it.
	You should try it if you haven't tried it.
	I'm always open to interesting suggestions.
	Did you embed any wood in these?
	I saw some of the pictures here.
	Have you embedded any wood in this fluid state of the metal?
	Has any wood got into it?
	Yeah, there's one on the website there.
	There's a block of wood in there and other samples have wood embedded in them that were cut open.
	Okay, well that means then that a bug or a frog or me could be embedded in that metal.
	So you reproduced the Philadelphia Experiment.
	That's what I think too.
	Right?
	Well, I guess so.
	Yeah, it's impossible not to go there.
	I went there right away.
	The moment I heard what you were using, it was obviously the Philadelphia Experiment.
	A little different, but not that different.
	Yes, with the embeddings that we can see.
	Caller, you're dead right.
	I agree with you.
	Can four coils give you a time shift?
	Four coils could probably do that.
	I've seen things like light appearing, which is caught on Super 8 film, the old Super 8 film.
	Light, shimmering things that appeared.
	Well, the sucking up of energy, that's why all this town shuts down.
	That light effect is the bombard, just like a mini hole.
	you what's going on so uh... you're you're there if you can get it spinning
	you will have the craft in the lift-off that you want plus power
	generation so i hope good luck to you in that direction try it sometime
	okay i worked all you get it for four and a half hours so you ought to be
	able to alright uh... john are are you going to
	are you going to take this up again john or have you had it well
	what i want to do is introduces the entertainment industry.
	Now, also, a lot of filmmakers are after me to sign a contract for doing my whole life story, and I'm considering that also.
	In a way, I feel a bit burned out, and I like my surplus electronics.
	I had a lot of fun working on Navy warships that were just a half a mile from here.
	And I would go down there and get electronics and study the ships.
	I was basically third in command of this artificial reef and I was allowed to take anything off the ships.
	So I guess you need to get re-inspired.
	I think it would be fun.
	My main thing I always wanted to do was give a massive demonstration to one of the biggest U.S.
	networks.
	the show this thing off to maybe ABC or NBC.
	Right.
	I got in a bit of a tuffle with Triad, Triad Entertainment.
	I mentioned that, that I would do that and they didn't like that and they started to
	give me some negative feedback on certain things when they aired the show.
	Okay.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with John Hutchinson.
	Hello.
	Hi there.
	This is Clark Culling from the Cryogenic Center of Canada in Winnipeg.
	Yes, sir.
	John, I emailed you a couple of times in the last month.
	We've had, I guess, a couple of correspondence, and I'm very glad to make both of your acquaintances on the air today.
	Cool.
	And I had a couple of questions for you.
	And a couple of just broad statements, I guess, that I was hoping you could make a couple of comments on.
	I'm just going to catch my breath here.
	I guess I wanted to allude especially to the last caller who was talking about spinning things, which is directly kind of what I've been working on somewhat, like I guess you had been about 20 years back in isolation somewhat, as that's easy to do in Canada when it's freezing for half the year.
	What was interesting is, I guess, the aspect of the Philadelphia experiment and some of the spinning antennas that they had, such as the Delta antenna, which is actually... Oh, yeah.
	You familiar with this?
	Oh, yeah.
	I got some of that stuff.
	Yeah, spinning RF fields, actually.
	Yeah, so what we have to do for the average layman that's looking, I think, for a little bit of background into this area is to look into the actual things that Einstein talked about, which is the space matrix.
	And we have to kind of lean towards a non-conventional way of looking at the system.
	And if we recall what John had just said a moment ago about the geometric Arrangement of the Tesla coils which is quite crucial to harmonizing with the very fabric of nature and I guess that would kind of lead you into a lot of Buckminster Fuller's work with spatial or what he called the omni inter-accommodational which is a type of way of tapping into and expressing the knowledge of
	Which Hoagland has briefly mentioned upon the tetrahedron, which is only one of the platonic or dimensional levels.
	And I guess I'm trying to allude to a unified field theory or a theory of everything that has been mainly quite elusive because of our Cartesian slash cubical ways of thinking about nature and space and How this might interrelate into some of the Russian pyramids that they're doing in... Let's hold it there, with pyramids, because I want to ask John something.
	John, obviously this is a source of power, a very large source of power.
	I mean, you move something as massive as a 1,500 pound transformer, right?
	That's right.
	And did what?
	Moved it into the air or what?
	It moved up about one inch.
	Off the ground?
	Off the ground.
	1,500 pounds.
	Alright.
	Do you think there's any possibility that generations or even civilizations that predated ours knew something about this in some way?
	You know, we don't know how the pyramids were built.
	We don't know how the Coral Castle down in Florida was built.
	We don't have a clue.
	Do you think it possible that some of this technology has been known to some people at other times in the world's history?
	I think it's highly probable.
	Now, I do believe in other races in space, because it's only logical because of the number of stars and planetary systems.
	What if there's some kind of intervention here where they had equipment to help at that time period?
	I've been in the Great Pyramid.
	I've been in Egypt, and I'm thinking, how can somebody build something like this by dragging blocks along on wooden platforms to build a mountain, literally a mountain?
	Well, you can't do it.
	Nobody can do it today.
	I know.
	So the only thing one can imagine is some sort of technology like this I think highly probable.
	I was fascinated by what I've seen there and also some of the diagrams on the wall indicate
	electrical equipment.
	That was my exact take on some of them.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hutchinson.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	How are you?
	Okay.
	John, I have two rather simple questions for you.
	Okay.
	You sort of started to segue to it when you mentioned something about taking your project into the entertainment industry.
	Just focusing simply on levitation, have you ever been approached by a magician?
	No, not by a magician, no.
	Okay.
	My second question is, when performing the tests, Where were you in proximity to the equipment?
	I mean, were you shielded behind a wall or something along those lines?
	Yeah, basically in the control room.
	Okay.
	They would operate all the equipment on the outside.
	I had proper grounding and shielding.
	You need that where you get too many x-rays and other odd types of things that would happen.
	Okay, so it's safe to assume that a human form Anywhere even near the equipment would suffer probably irreparable damage, correct?
	I would probably think yes, because everybody was cautious.
	If it was media, they would be cautious, and if it was control experiments, they were cautious.
	But nobody ever got hurt, and many, many people have come through those labs.
	That in itself is amazing to me, because you really wouldn't have any idea about the size of the field, and one can imagine many things that could have gone wrong, so I agree with that.
	Doctor, it's amazing you're still walking around, John.
	Well, that's what the doctor said.
	But I had a friend who was sensitive enough to actually feel the field with his hands.
	Really?
	Yeah, what I did was take a diode, put it on a volt-o-meter, and just put it on to a Oh, that's really odd.
	and put it near the field and of course it starts to fluctuate back and forth.
	And sure enough it would fluctuate back and forth.
	We could start to predict the fields with this simple setup.
	So I followed my friend around with this meter and sure enough it registered every time he
	said he could feel this thing with his hand.
	He called it slippery.
	It's like a slippery feeling, yeah.
	Oh, that's really odd.
	Wes to the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hutchinson.
	Hello.
	Art.
	Yes.
	Richard from Aberdeen, Washington.
	Yes, sir.
	Suggestion.
	On the earlier part of the show.
	Yes.
	You had a tape recording.
	OK.
	Does this relate to the guest I have on now, sir?
	Yeah, I'm going to get to that, okay?
	Okay, then go ahead to that now, because that's who we have on.
	Well, I wanted to tell you that you need to speed the tape up.
	Okay, I appreciate that, sir.
	Anything else?
	Yeah, question for your guest is, did they confiscate your records?
	No.
	All the videos, records, metal samples were not confiscated.
	So you've got all of that?
	I have every piece, because they're actually in another location.
	And I hope a safe one.
	Yes.
	Although I've replicated a lot of the stuff and keep sending it out to Dr. Andrew McCroskey of PACE, Planetary Association for Clean Energy.
	I've done a lot of replications, but I still get more in than I can replicate.
	Like, I need a secretary help.
	I understand.
	I need a secretary.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with John Hutchinson.
	Hi.
	Hi, this is Tom, San Antonio, Texas.
	Yes, Tom.
	I was thinking of every depiction of any type of spacecraft I've seen or heard about.
	It has been a sealed vacuum, more or less.
	Right.
	What I'm thinking now is maybe a spinning table inside of a vacuum.
	Yeah, that's an interesting question, John.
	We don't have a lot of time, but have you ever done any of these experiments in anything approaching a vacuum?
	No, not a vacuum.
	I just heard of the French experiments where they would spin magnetic fields at the speed of light within an electrostatic field, which is intriguing to me.
	Well, I mean, what you're doing, or did do, is way out there.
	I wish you luck.
	You know, if anybody in the media wants to contact you, since that's the way you seem to want to go right now, it would be H, the letter H, and then affect, H affect at infinite dot net.
	Yeah.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	H affect at infinite dot net.
	So you would be open to media offers and so forth.
	Oh, yeah.
	I was slated for Dan Aykroyd's new show there, but somebody pulled the whole show off and nobody understands why.
	That's right.
	Nobody understands why.
	A friend of mine, David Sirita, who used to guest on your show, I believe.
	He certainly was.
	He's a real nice guy.
	Very, very nice guy, yes.
	And I had Dan Aykroyd on the air as well.
	Very good people.
	They may be retooling that show, and so it may yet come on.
	I sure hope so.
	Okay, well listen, my friend.
	For tonight, I thank you for the incredible video and photographs.
	John, thank you, and good luck to you.
	Well, I thank you, Art, for having me on your wonderful show.
	I always like it.
	Take care, and good night.
	Good night, thank you.
	From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
	Ta-ta.

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