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Dec. 17, 2001 - Art Bell
02:53:50
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Eltjo Haselhoff - Deepening Complexity of Crop Circles
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Time Text
Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from December 17th, 2001.
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, happy to have you all.
Good evening, good afternoon, good morning, whatever it may be, wherever you are in all 24 time zones covered by this radio program.
Great to be with you.
I'm Art Bell.
Well, let's see.
They're beginning to think.
Actually, it would appear there's proof that the anthrax came from our stores of anthrax, military or civilian, whatever.
Listen to this story.
Anthrax was a contaminated U.S.
mall.
A male, rather, in October, were apparently produced in the U.S., according to the White House press secretary, Simply said it was looking like a domestic source.
Officials still don't know who delivered the thing.
Army officials doubtful that potential deadly anthrax mail to Congress originated at a military medical research center.
And this is the key line.
They're doubtful.
Even though spores in both places were a genetic match.
What am I to think here?
If they were a genetic match, then... I mean, isn't that case closed?
How can military officials doubt that's where it came from, if there's a genetic match?
I know in courtrooms, when they talk about genetic matches, they trot out experts who say, the odds of this Being anybody else's DNA are 5,463,947,261 to 1.
And inevitably they get convicted and or conversely people are released these days as absolutely innocent if the DNA was wrong.
nine hundred and forty seven thousand two hundred and sixty one to one
and inevitably they get convicted and or uh... conversely uh... people are were released these days
as absolutely innocent of the dna was wrong
so what is there to know here
is the dna not that complex Could somebody have copied it?
Could they randomly have come up with the same DNA sequencing?
I don't think so.
They are going cave to cave in Afghanistan, hunting for Osama Bin Laden.
Of course, they had a great last stand.
I'm hearing that some Al-Qaeda leaders may have been let go.
As you began to see Collapse after collapse of regions and cities in Afghanistan.
Did you notice how quickly they went?
I mean, just dominoes.
Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, like that.
Well, in some cases, they were making deals with the leaders.
Now, here's something that perhaps I'm not grasping properly here.
But these people, I thought, these Al-Qaeda folk, were, if necessary, martyrs, right?
They blow themselves to smithereens for the cause, or the religion, or whatever, you know, whatever.
Am I right?
Why then would, in case after case, in city after city in Afghanistan, why would they make a deal to save their own skins to surrender their troops, the area?
Why would they do that?
There's some part of that somewhere I'm not understanding.
Oh yeah.
Time Magazine is considering, I'm sure you saw on CNN, they ran a real big story about it.
Time Magazine is apparently in the throes of a difficult decision.
Companies have to make these difficult decisions every now and then.
They're really tough.
You know, one big company trying to make a decision probably of this magnitude right now.
Put Osama Bin Laden on the cover of Time or not.
Let us weigh this.
Let's see what Time is considering.
All right?
The people interviewed on the street were just blown away.
Now, traditionally, you've got to remember, Time magazine has made their man of the year, for better or for worse, the person who most affected the year.
That's been the criterion in the past.
Of course, this jerk did certainly most affect the year.
I don't think anybody would certainly question that.
So we have that on the one hand.
Time's reputation of always doing that.
You know, they did Hitler and Stalin and all kinds of people.
Not good people.
Man of the year.
But then on the other hand, we have millions of people who subscribe to Time magazine.
Probably some portion of whom will rip up their subscription.
Maybe a million.
Who knows?
Maybe not so many.
They don't know.
They have no way of knowing, but they know that people are going to get really ticked off if they do it.
If they put his picture on Time Magazine as Man of the Year, I think the problem that Time Magazine is stuck with is that they call it Man of the Year.
In the minds of most Americans, when you say Man of the Year, you don't mean somebody who Killed thousands of people and destroyed buildings in New York City and the Pentagon.
You don't... That's not what you mean.
You mean... You mean a man, you know.
Cooney's here, folks.
This is a guy of the year, right?
So their problem is the title, I think.
Maybe they should change that.
He forces three dead Monday after Yasser Arafat told his people to stop attacking Israel.
Well, I guess they're not listening to Yasser.
Lots of stuff that I would like to talk to you about.
I am not going to let go of this.
Listen to this cloning story.
Associated Press story.
The U.S.
government bans, if the U.S.
government should ban, human cloning.
An interesting decision for our government to make, huh?
A scientist now says his organization intends fully to find a country where it is legal and then create clone babies for infertile couples.
So, here you go!
A fellow named Zavos, a Kentucky reproduction researcher and a vocal advocate for human cloning, said Friday that his organization has been contacted by more than 3,000 infertile couples who are eager to become parents You know, just know that cloning is not going to be cheap, right?
Zavos said, quote, people want to have a biological child of their own.
Said that at a meeting of the Association of Reproductive Health Professionals.
Zavos heads a Lexington Kentucky organization called Anthology Institute of America, which provides fertility services.
Proposed federal legislation that would ban all forms of human cloning.
Would cripple research in America and force researchers to find countries where such studies are legal, said Zavos.
We don't even say we need America, he said.
The world is wide open to us.
Well, so there you have it.
It's not going to make a damn bit of difference what we do in this country, really.
Cloning, human cloning, is upon us.
And they fully intend to go where they will take these orders.
Now they know they've got the orders.
They've got the money.
Baby, it's coming.
Pun intended.
Baby, it's coming.
You know, cloning is... human cloning.
I guess we should... that should almost be like a law of nature, and that is that when mankind discovers a technology, a science, something new that man can do, man is damn well gonna do it.
And laws and politicians and police aren't going to stop it.
Technology marches on, it goes right past man.
It'll just be interesting to see what this technology delivers unto mankind.
If cloning is not legal in America, if they make it illegal, then does that mean that it would be illegal to A clone a baby in, you know, East Ipswich.
Well, no, that's still here.
In Cairo.
And bring your clone here.
Would it be illegal for that clone to enter the United States?
And if so, based on what?
Because, let me think about this.
You have a blood relative.
You're a U.S.
citizen.
You have a blood relative, like a husband or a wife or a son or a daughter in some other country.
As far as I know, they're automatically allowed to pursue U.S.
citizenship.
Maybe not automatically.
Maybe that's... I don't know.
I'm going to have to think about that, but you've got to admit it's an interesting question.
Very, very, very interesting, and I am going to find the right kind of expert on the ethics of the morality and the science of cloning.
There are a number of things I want to understand, but check me if I'm wrong on this.
The clone would be not near, you know, not like an identical twin, but it would be exactly like that.
Or even more identical twins still, I suppose, develop and look a little bit different one way or the other, right?
Can't they?
Maybe not.
So you could create your own double, another you, and have it brought into the country.
You tell me that some egotistical people in this country with lots of money, and there's lots of egotistical people with lots of money.
We're a country full of people like that.
wouldn't decide to do this, to create themselves again.
It's irresistible.
Pretty interesting stuff.
The Lancet.
You know about the Lancet, don't you?
It's a very prestigious British medical journal.
So, when it published an article in its current edition, get this, in which scientists claim to have proof, that's proof in capital letters, that humans have a soul that exists independently of the body that it inhabits.
Folks are sitting up and taking notice.
When Lance says that, well then, people do take notice, and I certainly am.
A team of research doctors from Holland, and that reminds me, my guest tonight is going to be coming to you from a very long way away.
not so far from Holland, actually.
18% or 62 out of 344 people clinically dead experienced quote, I'm quoting here, emotions, visions, or lucid
thoughts, end quote, while they were considered clinically dead.
Many others reported out-of-body experiences.
This is one of the most interesting questions that we deal with on this program.
Or maybe that there is to deal with in life.
You know, is there a soul?
Do we continue?
Does our consciousness continue?
The Lancet article would indicate that there is becoming proof.
That's a strong word for a prestigious medical journal like the Lancet, that there is proof that we have a soul.
Big news, I would say.
Tomorrow night, Whitley Strieber is going to be here, and one of the reasons he's going to be here is the U.S.
National Academy of Sciences is warning now, all of a sudden, that sudden, unexpected climate change on a scale that could cause widespread drought or even plunge Earth into a deep freeze poses more of a danger than anything else we've talked about.
You know, the slow warming of the climate, or the ozone layer problem, or any of the rest of it.
But what the National Academy of Sciences is suddenly warning, now why do you think they're warning this?
That we could get a sudden, a really sudden climate change.
The evidence embedded in ancient tree rings, ice cores, other places signs that quick Drastic change is a fundamental characteristic of Earth's climate.
These data show that the climate can switch abruptly from one mode, you know, like an ice age, to another, such as a mild interglacial period.
Humans, the climatologists say, have no remembered experience of such a sudden far-reaching shift If one were to occur in the near future, human civilization could be ill-equipped to adjust.
So, there you have it.
When Whitley and I wrote The Coming Global Superstorm, we pounded into people's ears that what we were talking about was the possibility of sudden climate change.
Sudden, drastic climate change.
And so now, finally, all of a sudden, Naturally.
Here it is.
Here it is.
From none less than the U.S.
National Academy of Sciences.
Something pretty weird happened on an American Airlines flight.
I don't know if you heard about that in a moment.
But if you didn't, you will.
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Explore your universe with Coast to Coast AM.
Assuming there's life like ours on other planets in this universe, do you think they too might be looking for this God particle or this question of who are we?
How did we get here?
Or do you think they even have the answer by now?
If they're sentient, intelligent beings, I have no doubt in my mind they're asking the same questions that we're asking.
And the day you find a being that's not looking is the day you probably found God.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
tonight featuring coast-to-coast AM from December 17th 2001 American Airlines
This is some story, really kind of an interesting story, which broke on Sunday.
Head Dateline to San Diego.
An American Airlines flight was delayed more than three hours.
Now, you can imagine how unnerving it would be to be delayed three hours.
Very frustrating.
And besides that, what they usually do is pretty much lie to you.
I'm not speaking about American Airlines now, but airlines in general.
You know about why you're being delayed.
That's mechanical trouble.
It's this, it's that.
I'm sure they all have a list of probably stuff they say.
But in this case, it's understandable why.
Somebody, I guess, well let me just read this story, alright?
Late morning, three hours after takeoff, Sunday, after a fake grenade, that's right, grenade, a fake grenade, used to test security screening, apparently, Fell out of a carry-on bag and rolled down the aisle.
An airport spokesperson.
Now, imagine being in an airliner these days.
I mean, I'm not a good flyer anyway.
I'm kind of a nervous flyer anyway.
Not really bad, actually.
But a little nervous, like everybody.
You know, take-offs and landings.
I pay attention.
Use that wing out there solid.
You know, is everything alright?
So, imagine After 9-11 and, you know, everybody's natural sort of a little bit of nervousness, anyway, you're sitting there probably just strapping in, grabbing the magazine in front of you, deciding if you're going to read, and you hear thumpity-thumpity-thump, and you look down, and here comes this grenade rolling down the aisle.
Of things in life that you could imagine that would really get your attention, Looking down and seeing a grenade rolling down the aisle as you're looking at the airline what to buy while you're in the air magazine.
There goes a grenade.
The woman that apparently or allegedly carried it on board is said to have inadvertently dumped the bag at the security checkpoint.
After boarding the plane, the woman pulled a jacket out of the bag And the fake grenade rolled out, and then down the aisle, the pilot of the aircraft, an MD-80 bound for Chicago on the taxiway, stopped the flight, had the grenade removed, and before the plane's departure, all passengers were taken off and re-screened.
At least, right?
So, you've got to wonder about this.
I mean, did the guy who was the security expert who had the grenade Who had the bag there.
Didn't he bother to tell anybody so these passengers had to go through getting re-screened again?
Didn't he tell anybody?
Oh yeah, I'm the guy who left the grenade or left the bag there that the lady picked up.
You gotta wonder how this came down.
Anyway, bottom of the hour.
The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
More, somewhere in time, coming up.
Nothing but a heartache never redeemed me.
Nothing but a heartache tears us all away.
Nothing but a tear that I've underpinned.
It's like the only way that I can heal.
Nothing but a heartache never redeemed me.
Nothing but a heartache tears us all away.
Nothing but a heartache could wake us better.
Some velvet morning when I'm straight.
Some velvet morning when I'm straight I'm gonna open up your gate
I'm gonna open up your gate.
And maybe tell you about Phaedra And how she gave me life
And how she made it in Some velvet morning when I'm straight
Flowers growing on our hill Dries and flies and die for dill
Learn from us very much Look at us but do not touch
Phaedra is my name Some velvet morning when I'm straight
I'm gonna open up yours It's like falling in love all over again.
And maybe tell you about Phaedra And how she gave me life
And how she made it easy Somewhere in time with Art Bell continues courtesy of
Premiere Networks It's like falling in love all over again
That's what it's like when you find a record like this you haven't heard in a long, long time
And you just sort of fall in love with it all over again We'll continue in a moment.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from December 17th, 2001.
Alright, here we go.
Open lines.
Anything you would like to chat about over the next half hour is fine.
At the top of the hour, five minutes after actually, we're going to have a theoretical physicist here from the Netherlands.
And it should be pretty interesting.
He just wrote a book called The Deepening Complexity of Crop Circles, Scientific Research and Urban Legends.
So obviously It's going to be interesting to find out why a theoretical physicist decided he would become interested in crop circles and what he thinks about them.
Very, very interesting.
He just defended his most recent thesis at aspects of a Compton free electron laser.
Aspects of a Compton free electron laser.
So, that is going to be most interesting, I think.
At any rate, here we go.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
Hello.
How are you, Art?
I'm okay, sir.
Where are you?
I'm in Indianapolis.
Indianapolis, okay.
Good to have you.
I just wanted to comment on the lady with the grenade on the plane.
Uh, the news reports I've heard today have said that she didn't inadvertently pick the bag up, that she'd actually stolen it.
Uh, she saw a sweater or jacket in the bag that she likes on.
She took it.
And on the plane, she went to get it out of the bag and didn't realize it, but the grenade rolled out.
Well, however it happened, as I said, I picture myself, you know, sitting in a plane and a little nervous anyway.
Most people, I don't think most people are a little nervous.
Yes.
And then, of course, there's September 11th, fresh in everybody's mind, and a grenade rolls by you.
You know, that's going to be a bad moment.
I would imagine it would be.
I would have been pretty scared.
I appreciate the information.
Thank you.
I don't know what the rest of the story is.
I don't think it really matters.
I think the story is, how would you have fared if you had been sitting on that airliner and, you know, thumpity, thumpity, thumpity, thump.
You look down and it's a pineapple.
Probably not very well.
A wild card line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello, Mr. Bell.
Howdy.
This is?
Brandy in East Tennessee.
Brandy?
Brandy.
Okay, Brandy.
Nice name.
Thank you.
And yeah, that is an awful lot of snafus in one flight.
You know?
Yeah, it is.
The grenade gets by, the wait lady steals the badge.
Grenade rolls out.
Bad day.
That lady was having a real bad day.
I would have had a fit.
Anyway.
Discussion about terrorists.
Yes.
Hand grenades are all well and good, but I have something really important to talk about.
Okay.
I want to know what you think about what happened in Cleveland yesterday.
Cleveland.
Now, where did you say you're calling from?
I'm from East Tennessee, but I grew up in Ohio.
Okay, I just wanted to see, you know, where you were coming from in this question.
Well now, I didn't see the game, and of course I'm really sorry I didn't see the game, but here's what I understand, and you tell me if I've got this wrong.
There was a play, a critical play at the end of the game.
It was like If it had been ruled one way, they'd have won.
You tell me, what was the replay about?
Cleveland was down by five.
They were in Jacksonville territory.
They had less than a minute left.
Couch throws the ball.
I forget who caught it.
They called it a catch at the nine yard line and they're running to get lined up again because they don't have any more timeout.
So it would have been a first down?
No, it was a first down.
On a fourth down throw.
And then to stop the clock, when they snap the ball again, Couch goes to ground the ball to stop the clock.
But he, like, pumped first.
So Jacksonville wanted intentional grounding.
But the referees go and review the catch.
Before that.
Yeah, but if he pumped before he spiked the ball, then it could not be... Yeah, they snapped another play.
You can't review that once it's over.
You're saying it's unreviewable?
Yeah.
By rule?
Once the ball is snapped on the next play, you cannot review that play, period.
That's the rule.
And everybody was properly lined back up again?
Yes.
Now, granted, It's inside two minutes, so it's a call from upstairs.
The coaches can't ask for that reply.
Yeah, that's right.
Anything under two minutes has to be reviewed up in the booth.
Yes.
Right.
And when they looked at it, the initial shot looked like a catch.
And they showed it from a different angle while the referees were looking at it.
And they were right.
It was not... He didn't have possession when he came down.
Oh.
But, that's not the point.
What is the point?
The point is...
They knew the rule and they broke it.
Right there in front of God and everybody.
So then they give the ball back to Jacksonville.
You mean the rule saying that it's not reviewable?
Reviewable.
They give the ball back to Jacksonville and the fans go crazy.
So with 48 seconds left on the clock, the referee goes out there and says, game over.
Yeah.
Everybody go home.
With 48 seconds left.
Well, it was my understanding that 30 minutes elapsed and then they played the last bit.
Yeah.
Because the commissioner called them in their locker room and said, you can't do that.
You have to go out there and finish the game.
That's right.
They certainly did.
And then bottles and stuff were thrown and I guess people were really, really pissed.
I was really, really mad.
I said I would have probably been throwing things too.
My brother said that he would have thrown me.
He would have thrown you?
He would have thrown me, which it wouldn't have been easy because I'm six feet tall.
I'd remember that, hon, when games get tight, you know, and you're sitting there with them.
I'd sit there with my brother at NFL games.
Thanks for the call.
No problem.
I wish I'd seen it myself.
Now, what you just said is interesting, that they blew by a rule that said something is not reviewable.
Hmm.
I was calling because earlier you were mentioning about clones and their right to be in America if they're born overseas or whatever.
Rockies, you're on the air. Hello.
Hello Art.
I was calling because earlier you were mentioning about clones and their right to be in America
if they're born overseas or whatever. Well, back on November 17th I wanted to touch on
something too in 1977. I was in Germany married to a military man and I couldn't make it to
the Stuttgart hospital for the army hospital so I had to go to Müttlingen.
my...uh...
Anyway, I died while I was having my son and I was dead for 47 minutes.
But I didn't have the out-of-body experience like I'm always hearing about.
Well, it is not a majority of the people that have it.
I went inside myself.
Didn't you hear what I said?
It was, what was it, 40-some percent or so.
Let's see.
Is it that high?
Here they talk about, no it's even less than that, it's 18%, 62 out of 344 in this study reported emotions, visions, or lucid thoughts.
But what do you mean you went inside yourself?
I was inside myself in the womb and I helped push my son out down through the birth canal from behind him.
When I got to the end where he was no longer in front of me, I went into where it looked like a light and... Oh, wait a minute.
What clinically occurred to you?
I died.
Well... My heart stopped.
Your heart stopped?
Yes.
Now, I could... For how long?
I was dead for 47 minutes.
47 minutes?
It's on record, yeah.
Okay, now... Here's... As far as I understand... You know, who understands about these things?
Completely, but it's been my understanding, ma'am, that if your heart stops for like five or six minutes, you're not only clinically dead, you're dead dead.
I was dead dead because they gave up on me.
They were busy with the baby.
So you're saying they brought you back?
No, they did not bring me back.
What brought you back?
Well, you're here, so... I heard a voice from the light.
Uh, it appeared like a round ball, but I think that's because your pupils are round.
And there was, like, no, um, like, rays or anything.
Okay, but here, again, here's my problem.
In the case of the lady who had the aneurysm snip that I interviewed, I'm sure you probably heard it, right?
Yes, I listened to that.
I tried to call that night because I wanted to speak to her.
Yes, but in that case, they cooled the body so that the brain tissue, minus the blood carrying the oxygen, I know.
Wouldn't die.
In your case... They did nothing because they tried everything to revive me and I would not come back.
You absolutely should not be here.
I know.
So, where were you?
And I should be like, you know, messed up in my brain from lack of oxygen.
I'm perfectly fine.
You shouldn't have a brain.
I know.
But I heard a voice that said, Diana, go back to your son.
And all of a sudden it was like, I came like floating back, like everything had like a brown cast.
Well, where were you when you came back?
I mean, was there a sheet pulled over you?
The whole time.
Were you in the morgue?
Where were you?
No, I was still laying there on a table, but they were over sucking fluid out of my son and taking care of my baby, trying to revive him because he was born dead.
So they brought him back.
Yeah, they were all busy with him.
Yeah, but you went code blue there.
They had to be paying attention to you.
No, they gave up on me.
They considered me dead and gone.
Oh my God.
Yes.
Will you please contact me in email?
Artbell at Minespring.com.
Alright, rather than continuing the story now, get hold of me and we'll arrange something more, okay?
Alright, because it's on record.
I mean, they have it at the, you know... I understand.
Listen, send it...
Send the email to me, we'll go from there.
Yeah, they were really, you know, acting strange when I sit up and started.
You know, I wanted to see my baby.
Well, seeing dead people sit up always concerns one.
Alright, thank you very much.
Send me that email.
And we'll go from there.
40 minutes.
I don't know.
I mean, I just don't know.
I guess nothing amazes me anymore.
Nothing.
Because that's impossible.
Forty minutes, you're just, you're really dead.
Dead, dead, dead, dead, dead.
The only thing about Pam's procedure was they cooled her body to preserve, they thought, they hoped, and they were right, the tissue in her brain.
Or maybe there is something even more that we just don't, just don't understand.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi, Art.
Hi.
Merry Christmas.
Oh, Merry Christmas.
Yes, getting close.
This is Maureen from San Diego.
Hi again.
I'd like to know, will the GIS paranormal group, will they be on tomorrow night?
Oh, the voices from the grave group.
Yeah.
Yes.
Now, as long as they're C.D.
arrives on time.
It is supposed to come sailing in tomorrow by special delivery, super-duper, better get it there or somebody dies, Federal Express-type mail.
So as long as that gets here, yes, they will be on tomorrow night.
Oh, good.
Also, tomorrow night at 8 o'clock on Channel 10 here in San Diego, they'll be showing contact, talking to the dead.
Really?
Contact talking to the dead.
Well, we also have guests here who claim to do that.
Contact with the dead.
It's not really so far out when you think about it.
If all of this other stuff that we're beginning to read so much about is true, if we are about to prove scientifically that we actually have a soul, Then that means there is survival of the consciousness after death, and if there is that, then walking to the dead would have to be considered more carefully, wouldn't it?
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello, Art.
How are you doing?
I'm doing okay.
Where are you?
I'm calling from New Mexico.
Okay.
Go ahead.
Okay.
I just wanted to tell you, when I was about a year and a half old, I was Um, dead for about 12 hours.
You were dead for 12 hours?
Yes.
Now, do you know, maybe we should define dead?
Well, um... Dead meaning no heartbeat.
Yeah.
No brainwave.
Yeah.
Just totally gone.
Yeah.
And you're claiming you were.
Yes.
And I still remember because, um, when I had like an out of body experience And I happened to, I don't know where I went.
No, no, no.
Go back to the dead part.
How did you get dead?
How did I get dead?
Yes.
Well, I'm not exactly sure, but I remember that I had a seizure and I was just shaking all over.
They took me to the hospital and they never did find out what was wrong with me.
I was just dead.
And you were how old?
A year and a half old.
A year and a half old?
Yeah.
Well then, you must not remember a whole lot about it.
I don't remember a whole lot from when I was a year and a half.
Yeah, but I remember where I went.
Where did you go?
I went to a place where my great-grandparents were.
I saw them.
I communicated with them.
That's what we hear from people who have this experience, yes.
Yeah, and it looked like my grandma, but she was still alive, so it might have been my grandma's mother that I was speaking to, and my grandfather.
My grandfather said that he didn't want me there because it wasn't time for me, and he ordered my grandmother to bring me back.
Now that's really, really interesting because Could it be true?
She said she fell as her grandmother, but no, it could not have been because she was still alive.
Now, maybe our lack of understanding of the other side, you've got to admit, folks, we don't know a whole lot about it, right?
We don't know much about the other side.
It's nature.
It may be that on the other side, people who are with us now are with us there.
That's a line of thought worth pursuing, isn't it?
So, in other words, somebody alive now could be there as well.
Picks you up to think about that, it does me a little bit, but I understand that in a complex world over there that we don't even begin to understand the physics of or anything else, something like that might easily be possible, so I wouldn't dismiss the fact so quickly that it was her.
Wow, interesting stories.
Hi, how's it going?
It's going okay, sir.
Where are you?
This is Adam from New Orleans.
Okay, Adam.
I was going to talk to you about the football game.
I know the woman called up before talking about the one in Cleveland.
Yeah.
I don't know if you saw the game tonight.
The exact same thing happened down here.
What?
Yeah, it wasn't under the same circumstances, but everybody's getting frustrated.
And the Saints are definitely a team.
Now, before you ruin it for me, because I take that game, and I don't want you to tell me about it.
I'm sorry, but I have that game to watch later.
You will be very entertained.
That's great.
Don't tell me any more than that.
All right, so it's a really good game.
I mean, this I understand was to determine if New Orleans was going to make it into the wild card, into a wild card slot.
Right.
Yeah, okay.
Well, don't tell me about it.
Okay.
Will do.
But on the other hand, feel free to call me about it after today.
Sure thing.
All right?
All right.
See you later.
All right, thank you very much.
All right, now I want to warn you that My guest coming up is my guest coming up, as long as I'm able to connect with the Netherlands.
Now, the Netherlands should not be a difficult call, mind you.
I don't think it's going to be a difficult call.
But anytime, you know, you're touching base with that far away, there's always the possibility that something can and will go wrong.
So no promises.
But assuming, how dangerous that is, that all goes well, Coming up after the break, a theoretical physicist who's going to talk some about crop circles.
And since he is a theoretical physicist, we'll pick his mind on a number of other subjects as well.
From the high desert, I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
tonight featuring coast to coast a m from december seventeenth two thousand
one the
the right
the right
do you do it like a dog with
♪♪♪ There's a killer on the road
His brain is squirming like a toad Take a long holiday
Let your children play If you give this man a ride
Sweet family will die Killer on the road
Yeah Oh, yeah
Premier Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from December 17, 2001.
In a moment, we've got a theoretical physicist coming up from the Netherlands and his name, if I'm going to try and pronounce it, is Elcho Hasselhoff.
He's actually related to the other Hasselhoff you know about.
Amazing, huh?
I'll tell you more about him in a moment.
We've got kind of an echoey line from here to the Netherlands.
You know, I've got an idea.
I wonder what would happen if I had him call my international toll-free line.
Probably get the same satellite anyway.
We tried about five times.
The operator even tried it occasionally.
There's just nothing you can do about satellites, I guess, that echo.
But that coming up, echo and all, in a moment.
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Explore your universe with Coast to Coast AM.
Assuming there's life like ours on other planets in this universe, do you think they too might be looking for this God particle or this question of who are we?
How did we get here?
Or do you think they even have the answer by now?
If they're sentient, intelligent beings, I have no doubt in my mind they're asking the same questions that we're asking.
And the day you find a being that's not looking is the day you probably found God.
Now, we take you back to the past, on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
Now, this should be really interesting.
Oh, man.
Really, really interesting, actually.
The guest I have coming up, Elcho, is named Elcho.
It's spelled E-L-T-J-O, but pronounced Elcho.
After finishing grammar school, Elcho studied experimental physics.
Specializing in high-power gas lasers, non-linear optics, and ultra-short optical pulse detection.
Good Lord!
After obtaining his MSc degree, he worked at several European research institutes and at Los Alamos National Laboratories.
Ho, ho, ho, here in the U.S.
His main activities were in the fields of free electron laser research, Accelerator technology, ultra-high vacuum technology, semiconductor photo-emission cathodes for high-current electron beam accelerators, and fast, ultra-fast, make that, optical infrared switches.
In May of 63, he obtained his Ph.D.
in physics after successfully defending his thesis aspects of a Compton free electronic laser.
Whoa!
Today he works in an industry as A senior clinical scientist in the Magnetic Resonance Marketing Department of a leading provider of medical imaging equipment where he specialized in the use of MR in the battle against heart disease.
In the strict scientific period of his professional life, that would be 1985 through 1994, he published several dozens of articles in peer-reviewed scientific journals On electro-optics, lasers, and general matters like optics communications, IEEE Journal of Quantum Electronics, IEEE Journal of Applied Physics, and the Physical Review since the start of his industrial career in 1995.
He is more dedicated to executive tasks.
Nevertheless, some scientific papers were published since then.
His last peer-reviewed scientific publication demonstrated the involvement of balls of light in crop Circles.
And that's what we're going to talk to him about, but that's not all we're going to talk to him about.
Actually, I'm going to be able to pass on Elcho most of the time, because I think Dr. Hasselhoff, under the circumstances with his resume and education, Dr. Hasselhoff will be the way I will address him, so I'll make that easy.
Doctor, welcome to the program.
Thank you, Mr. Bell.
I'm happy to be here.
Where are you in the Netherlands?
Well, it's hard to tell because it's dark and it's cold, but I'm in the south of the Netherlands.
It's close to the Belgium border.
Guess what?
Our echo kind of disappears still there, but it's not bad.
It's a little better than it was, thank goodness.
Well, here it comes again.
Oh, well.
Anyway, it's so absolutely fantastic to have you on the program.
It is, nevertheless, early, I suppose.
Daylight there, right?
Well, it's about 8.15 in the morning.
There's no daylight at this time of the year.
These days are very dark and very short.
Oh, that's right.
I forgot.
You're way up north, aren't you?
Yeah, it's pretty dark here.
Alright, well, how does somebody with your background, as a matter of interest, even begin to get interested in the crop circle phenomena?
How did that happen?
Well, I think getting in is quite easy.
The problem is getting out.
This all started about in 1988.
And actually, it started when a colleague of mine, he was a guy from Scotland, and he was a very smart guy, and he watched a documentary on BBC television in England.
It was about crop circles, those were the early years of media coverage and he told me about it and actually I was very surprised that he was so surprised because this guy was very smart and if there would have been any trivial explanation he would have probably figured it out after one BBC documentary but he was very impressed and he told me about it and Well, he actually talked all morning about it, and then he said, well, you should have seen this.
You would have been impressed.
And I said, well, OK.
So that's how it started.
And that's how I became triggered.
And then, actually, the same year, we had a formation nearby.
So I contacted the people that wrote about it in the newspaper.
And I personally visited these two crop circles.
That's how it all started.
Then you're there and you think, well, this is strange.
Because it is strange.
If you enter a crop formation, it is just strange.
Even if you don't know where it comes from, even if you believe it's man-made, it's still strange.
Alright, well then explain to me what it was like walking in.
When you walked into that crop circle, what was strange?
Did you feel strange?
Do you mean things that you noticed that were strange?
Well, I'm very much Like I always say, down to the bare metal.
I'm not psychic, I'm not sensitive or anything.
Many people around me tell me they feel strange, they feel sick, they feel well, they feel whatever.
I have had those experiences in a very limited fashion, but what I refer to actually is that when you get there and there's this huge circle in a field of wheat, it's just a strange thing to see anyway.
You're entering that place and it's strange.
And in this particular case, this very first circle in 1988, of course the first thing you do is try to flatten the crop somewhere where it's still standing upright to see what happens.
I mean, how would you do this?
So you just take a small piece and you try to push it down, and then you find that there's actually some sort of recoil.
I mean, if you try to push these plants over, they tend to jump upward anyway.
Right.
They don't lay flat.
They come right back to you.
Yeah, they do.
And so it's not as flat as it's in this circle.
So then you think, well, they must have been pushing down very hard.
So you start actually, with your feet, you start stomping them down.
Sure.
And then they sort of lay down.
But then you find that your footprints are all over the soil.
If you lift up the stems, you see that you're imprinted.
And in this crop circle, I would think the first thing I noticed, if you lift up the stems, Underneath, the soil is untouched.
There are little earth crumbs.
These earth crumbs are so brittle, you can't even lift them up.
You can't even get them in your hands.
You try to pick one up, and it just pulverizes.
That is strange.
Then you find that wherever you walked around in this formation, you can find your own footsteps, but you don't find any other footsteps.
That is strange.
That's sort of peculiar.
Obviously after half an hour you've been walking around everywhere and it's hard to tell, you know, but anyway next time you hear about a crop circle you sort of decide to go back to check if that's still the case, if it's like that again, you know, and then it turns out to be like that, like the undisturbed soil.
So that makes you come back a third time and a fourth time and a fifth time and that's been going on for 13 years now because you just find more and more peculiar characteristics of these formations.
All right, I have heard many, many reports from many scientists, the scientists here in America that have done studies of certain crop circles and found molecular changes in the crops and the seed pods and all kinds of things.
You're aware of all of that research by now?
I am, yes.
I think you're referring to Dr. Levengood.
Yes, of course.
Yes.
Yeah, I'm aware of his work and I've actually, actually it was This research that made me do similar things, I was sort of intrigued, perhaps a little bit skeptical, you never know.
Anyway, I wanted to try these things out and although I have not performed as many experiments as Dr. Levengood did, I've been doing the same sort of work and so far I can only confirm what he's been finding.
There are, in fact, Very strange changes, biological changes in the plants.
All right, Professor, Dr. Levengood was able to determine that the only way that he could come close to duplicating the changes produced in this crop would be by literally cooking the crop in a microwave oven.
In other words, microwave radiation produced an effect similar to what he was seeing.
Do you agree?
Yes, that's right.
I have performed those studies to some extent and there's one effect that we will be definitely talking about in this show which is the node lengthening effect.
That is something that can in fact be simulated quite well just by simply cooking these plants in a microwave oven and then you see changes which are very similar.
So that That might mean that perhaps, somehow, microwave radiation is involved in crop circle creation.
I mean, it's just a hypothesis, but it might be heat is involved in any way.
That's something we know for sure.
Alright, well then, let me jump to this.
I'm not sure if you're aware, I would bet you are, of recent research regarding plasma balls of energy actually being self-sustaining Within our atmosphere and all these reports of lights that have been seen, I wonder if these lights might be these plasma balls of energy?
Well, I'm aware of the work and actually it's some of the things that I was going to pick up because the first presentations I heard about, it was somewhere in a conference about a year ago, I think somewhere in Italy, but I'm not even sure.
The first presentations I heard about these self-sustaining plasma balls puzzled me very much.
Yes.
But I really couldn't imagine what the mechanism would be.
But then I must say that it's been a long time since I really was working with that sort of stuff.
Nevertheless, you are a theoretical physicist.
What can you imagine, Professor, that could cause a plasma ball within our Climate within our conditions here on earth to be self-sustaining what what what in physics do we know that could even begin to explain that?
Well, I'll tell you the only thing that I've and that sounds perhaps like a strange remark But the only thing that I could think of is something which has not been recognized yet by my mainstream physics And that's what we call free energy Free energy is something which is sort of a new concept.
There's some other physicist propagating this.
And it's supposed to be a source of energy which is actually that we're not aware of at this point in time.
Basically, it says you that one cup of vacuum, if you want that one cup of nothing, you know, if you just would pump out all the air out of a little cup of coffee and all the coffee and everything, And there's something that actually is left behind.
It's called ether, and it has an extremely high energy density.
And you could actually get the energy out.
I think that one coffee cup has enough to evaporate all the Earth's oceans, something like that.
There's a huge amount of energy.
Anyway, that's a very controversial theory.
But on the other hand, it has many interesting aspects.
So actually, the argument I made was, well, if this energy comes from nowhere, because that's what it does, and it's so much energy, because it's a lot of energy, who knows, perhaps it's free energy.
But I don't I wouldn't know any mechanism supported by mainstream physics that would explain this.
So in other words, if this were a court atmosphere, and you were a witness, and I was a lawyer, and I was requiring of you a direct answer, the answer is there is nothing in conventional physics that supports this, and yet we know it's true that there are self-sustaining plasma balls.
It's now been proven, so there's something out there we really don't know, huh?
Well, there's something out there that I really don't know.
Perhaps these other guys know more about it, but like I said, I would have to pay more attention to the work and go in more depth with these plasma balls.
There's one thing I know, though, and that is that these balls of light, I prefer to call them balls of light because I'm not sure if these are actually plasma balls, these balls of light, I've come to the point where I believe these eyewitnesses because we have found circumstantial evidence in the fields that support their words.
And I actually, I have come to the point where I believe these eyewitnesses
because we have found circumstantial evidence in the fields that support their words.
You can actually find traces in the crops which perfectly support what they're telling you,
that there was a ball of light that had heated up the crops, and this heating of the crops leaves sort of a mark in the
field, and that is something you can measure by the node lengthening.
We've done that, and there's a perfect match.
So yes, I believe these people.
There's little doubt in my mind.
Okay, let us say it is so.
Then the next thing that puzzles me terribly, Professor, is that there are these incredibly beautiful, symmetric, Design.
If you would think this was some sort of fluke of nature, a ball of light or plasma, whatever it is, it would be rather random, but not so beautifully symmetrical and even mathematical at times.
Yeah, that's the creepy part, isn't it?
Creepy.
See, the point is that it is, in the first place, it is very difficult to judge, because we know there are people out there making crop circles, and that's a fact of life.
I know some of these people personally, and they just do it.
I heard that you made one.
Oh yeah, yes, more than once actually.
I just wanted to have a good feeling for how difficult it is and how much effort it is to produce a circle.
Otherwise it's hard to judge what all the other people do.
So the problem is that if you look at all the data you have, all the information you get, you know there's a certain percentage man-made.
You don't know what percentage and you don't know which circles.
So it's very hard to interpret what you're seeing.
But there are at least four different types of crop circles.
Let's say four different types of designs.
There's the simple circle, simple round circle.
Those ones have been reported for centuries already, perhaps even more than that.
Then we have the circles with rings and lines, the circle ring and bar type.
That's what I call the second type.
Then we have the ones you refer to, these beautiful Often circularly symmetric formations, which you see particularly in the south of England.
They look like sort of, it's like arch, like mandalas, like beautiful symbols.
And then there's a new type, which is quite recent, which is the one made out of dots, like newspaper photographs.
Yes.
We have had a few of those.
Of course you start with these simple round circles, and those have been a formation that I've been mainly involved with.
Those could be a natural phenomenon, perhaps.
I mean, it's an unknown phenomenon.
We don't know much about it, but I could imagine that such things are created by some sort of whirlwind or whatever, something related to the changes in the atmosphere or the hole in the ozone layer, whatever.
I mean, it just shots in the dark, but at least you're not just out of your... I mean, that's something you could make hypotheses about.
Sure.
Then there are the formations with the rings and the circles and the bars.
These started to appear for the first time in 1990.
These actually seem to be quite simple, particularly if you look at them now.
It's nothing compared to what we find in the fields in the south of England today.
But these are very clearly highly intelligent.
They contain mathematical theorems which are hidden inside the pictograms.
It's not like they're obvious, but you have to perform a mathematical analysis.
And then you find that although it just looks like a few circles with a simple ring around it, There are certain proportions and ratios in these formations which are incredibly complicated.
Sometimes it takes me an entire winter to figure one of these things out.
All right, we're going to pick up exactly there, Professor, when we get back.
We're at the bottom of the hour already.
I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
Good morning.
This is Premier Networks.
That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
On this, Somewhere in Time.
For so long Listen to the strangest stories
Wondering where it all went wrong For so long
For so long Hold on, hold on, hold on
Do what you got Hold on, hold on, hold on
Hear the sound that comes Romeo and Juliet
Romeo and Juliet Are together in eternity
Are together in eternity Romeo and Juliet
Romeo and Juliet Forty thousand men and women every day
Forty thousand men and women every day Romeo and Juliet
Romeo and Juliet Forty thousand men and women every day
Forty thousand men and women every day Now they're gone
We need money Every forty thousand coming every day
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Don't feel the refuge Baby take my hand
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La la la la La la la la
La la la la La la la la
You are listening to Art Bell Somewhere In Time Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from December 17th, 2001.
My guest is Dr. Elko Hasselhoff and he'll be right back.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from December 17th, 2001.
Music.
Alright, let's think about this a little bit.
Mathematical formulas.
Now, I think a lot of us understood that some of these circles were fractal in nature.
But obscure mathematical formulas.
Now, if you're Doug or Dave, not going to probably be laying out an obscure mathematical formula in a crop circle.
If you are a college student, you might think about laying out an obscure mathematical formula.
But really, you're going for the visual here.
So why bother going for the obscure mathematical formula?
That part is kind of interesting, Professor.
What do you think about that?
Well, that's exactly the right way you're phrasing it.
In fact, I would think if you make these things, then you do it because of the visual effect.
And making a few circles in the field is a great joke.
I mean, I can imagine that.
I mean, I could do it myself.
I can imagine that it's exciting and everything.
But the difference between making a few circles and a few rings, or making it in such a fashion that you get these incredibly complicated, I repeat, incredibly complicated mathematics hidden in it, It's a big difference because all of a sudden you have to know exactly where you are in the field with respect to the edges of the field, with respect to the trim lines, you know, the tracks.
You have to know exactly where one circle is located with respect to the other within the accuracy of a few inches or less.
It makes things so much more complicated and it will be so much more effort And then you wonder who will ever figure this one out, because this is not something that is an obvious analysis to do.
Once you have this formation, you have to find someone who will spend time and actually perform a careful measurement.
That doesn't happen most of the times.
Then somebody has to take all the data home, sit at his desk, and work out all the mathematics.
The chances that it happens, actually, are quite small, because, for example, we've had Several hundreds of these formations in the last couple of years in the Netherlands, and I've analyzed only four or five of them or so, so far, because it just takes so much time.
Well, so you're saying that this aspect of it as well, then, is just a great big mystery?
I think it's very peculiar, and it's also something that most people don't know about.
I'll give you an example.
We had a formation in 1997 in the Netherlands and it consisted of a circle in wheat with
three surrounding rings and these three rings were concentric and they were increasing in
diameter.
It was something like one was 20 feet, one was 25 feet, one was 30 feet.
That was what it looked like and they all seemed to have the same width.
We performed the measurement.
We exactly measured all the diameters and then you find that actually these three rings
around the circle did not have the same width.
They were slightly different.
One was like one foot, the other one was one foot and a few inches and the third one was
one foot and minus a few inches, something like that.
And we also found that they were not equidistant, but the distances were all a little bit different.
So you draw out your scale diagram very accurately on the computer at home, and then you just try looking at it and trying out some things, and there actually are some theorems, some of these geometrical theorems that have been formulated earlier.
And then you find, for example, that in between the central circle And the first ring, if you can imagine, you can draw a triangle and it's an equilateral triangle and it fits perfectly in between the central circle and the first ring, right?
Yes.
And it's a perfect fit.
And that's sort of a theorem that was defined in 1990 by Dr. Gerald Hawkins from Boston University.
He figured that one out because it happens all the time.
Anyway, that's sort of a giveaway.
But then you look at the first ring and the second ring because there's a space in between those as well.
and you try to fit another triangle, it doesn't fit.
However, you can fit a square.
A regular square in between the two.
Well, you've got triangle 3, square 4, so the next is 5, right?
Pentagon.
Yes, it is.
You try to fit a pentagon in between the second and the third ring, and there's a perfect fit of a pentagon.
Oh, my God.
Hey, look, hey, that is interesting.
Now I understand why those distances were not all the same, because otherwise you couldn't have a triangle, a square, and a pentagon.
All right, is there any way to mathematically calculate the probabilities of that being?
Oh, yes, you can.
Actually, It wasn't over yet, because you go 3, 4, 5.
What's next?
6, right?
So you draw a hexagon around the entire formation.
There's no fourth ring, but you can still draw the hexagon around the entire thing.
And then if you take the hexagon, you can make sort of a Hebrew star out of it, right?
If you connect all the points, you get three triangles that cross one another.
This Hebrew star makes another hexagon in the center, and that exactly encloses the second circle again.
Well, after another, it took me two years to figure them all out.
I mean, sometimes it takes some time because you lose your inspiration or whatever.
Anyway, after two years, I found that, in fact, all the inner and outer boundaries of all these three rings, including the center circle, were all connected with simple, basic geometrical figures.
There was the triangle, the square, the pentagon, the hexagon.
There was another pentagon and a pentagram.
And they all connected these edges with respect to one another as if All these rings were just defined by the diameter of the central circle only.
And then, in fact, you get these two guys.
And there was actually an article in the newspaper.
Two guys said, hey, we did that one.
We made it.
We went home.
We had a few drinks in the bar.
We saw the crop field.
We were talking about crop circles.
And we said, well, let's go home.
Let's get some ropes.
And let's make a crop circle.
I take it you don't buy that.
Of course not, because then if you go to, like you said, you calculate the probability of chance that they would make a design that would fulfill all these conditions, the probability is about 1 to 46 million.
1 to 46 million?
Yeah, I was going to ask you, what are the chances it's 100 million?
Yeah, that means you would have to do this 46 million times before you have one formation that would reasonably fit these conditions.
No, when I read the newspaper, I got in touch with these guys, and I told them, I asked them, how did you do this?
And they didn't know what it was all about, and then they told me, well, it was just a joke, blah, blah, blah, blah.
But that is not published in the newspapers, of course.
No, but they told you their claim was a joke, is that correct?
Well, first they said they did it, and then they, afterward, when they were talking to me, they said, well, no, we didn't, we didn't.
It was actually somebody else said they did it, you know, we didn't do it.
And then you just, you know.
It's very easy to say that you made a crop circle.
That's an easy thing to do, and it easily happens.
I've had many cases where, reportedly, a formation was made by man, but then when he tried to find his people, because we were interested in how they did it and so on, it just turns out to be a joke or just one evening in a bar they just said they did it and they weren't serious and you shouldn't have misunderstood me and so on.
It's very easy to say you make crop circles.
It's much more difficult to actually make one.
Well, as you know, there are people like Colin Andrews, a very prominent crop circle researcher, who says that he bleeds up to 80%.
Once he was misquoted as saying all, but 80% he now says of crop circles are man-made.
Do you think that is in the correct range or incorrect?
Well, it is hard to say.
I have sort of an intelligent guess and that is lower, but then again that's based on what happens in the Netherlands.
I think that Colin Andrews' conclusion, although I haven't talked to him personally yet about it, is a little bit premature in the sense that I think it's based mainly on the crop formations in the south of England.
And I think they're not representative for the phenomenon worldwide, because these things happen all over the world, in all countries.
All right, well, perhaps you could help us with this aspect of crop circles.
It seems as though, in Great Britain, where it sort of all began, they're becoming increasingly complex, whereas here in North America, ours resemble the first crop circles in Great Britain so long ago.
Any thoughts on why?
Well, we have the same thing in the Netherlands.
We're having formations very similar to the ones in Canada and America and very similar to the ones in many other countries.
I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if many of the complex formations in the South of England are man-made.
I mean, it's not the complexity of the formations that really puzzles me.
Sometimes it does.
Like, we have had occasions last year in England, these huge, huge crop formations.
They're so big and they're so complicated.
And if you look at the The way they are designed, the mathematical constructions, it's so complicated and it's so strange that you wonder, well, why would you go through all this trouble to do it?
But then it's not just the complicated design that puzzles me.
In theory, I think that even the most difficult and intricate ones could have been made by man if they had the right drive and the right education and the time and the money and all to do it.
In many cases, I don't believe it is made with planks and roofs, as they always want you to believe.
We know that these simple formations, the one with the circles and the rings, and it looks like we have indications, even the ones with the bars, can be made without walking in the fields.
That's sort of a clear thing.
People don't walk in the field.
I'll come back to that later.
So it seems like there's some sort of high-tech method.
That allows you to make crop circles, and you do it without walking in the fields, from a distance, and with the involvement of heat.
Well, if you can make... Gee, Professor, the only people I know capable of that would be the military.
Yours, ours, somebody's.
Perhaps, yes.
Obviously, the military have been considered many times by many.
However, I wonder why would they First of all, why would they make these funny diagrams all the time?
And secondly, why would they do it in areas where it's full of people?
Why wouldn't they just do it somewhere in Siberia or somewhere in Alaska, somewhere where there's no people?
Because it doesn't seem to be without danger.
I mean, I don't think the crop circle phenomenon is really dangerous to you, but however, we sometimes find many burn marks, including dead animals, dehydrated animals, that sort of stuff.
So it looks like the heat and the forces that are involved actually can be hazardous to your health.
So then I would wonder why they would take the risk and doing this in crowded areas full of people.
I would imagine that they would prefer to do the work silently without anybody noticing.
Well, I agree.
It's just like animal mutilations.
I was unable to figure out what our government would need with some farmer's cow.
Same idea?
Exactly, yes.
I mean, yeah, sure.
You would just buy one in that case.
Yeah, plenty of cows available.
Perform your experiments rather than doing it this way.
And the same applies to these crop circles.
I know the military are interested, obviously.
Well, they'd better be.
Yeah, I think so.
And it's easy to tell.
Whenever the crop circles, you always see military airplanes flying around.
And I think that's a logical thing.
But I wonder if they are involved.
I mean, they might, but then it's probably something like a mass psychology experiment rather than something else.
Well, our government's position on this sort of thing, Professor, is to generally pooh-pooh it.
What about in the Netherlands?
They pooh-pooh it, yes.
Well, they do.
It's the same here.
It's the same everywhere, I think.
The official statements always are like that.
Inofficially, it seems like there is interest, in fact.
But officially, it's just one big joke.
And often they say, well, it has been proven a long time ago and many times that they're all man-made.
And that is just not true.
Well, I know that military guys absolutely hate it when their airspace is violated and they don't know it.
Obviously.
Yeah, obviously.
They better, yeah.
Yeah, they better.
That's right.
No, there is something strange going on.
I'm absolutely 100% convinced of that.
All right.
In your opinion, Professor, is there any sort of message to be realized within the crop circles?
Well, that's a very difficult question because we don't even know how they are made.
But let's just brainstorm a bit about that.
Obviously, if you have these simple formations like I told you earlier about, the ones with the rings and the bars, and you find this hidden geometry in there, then there's a very clear message, and that is, we are intelligent.
We have a universal language to express intelligence, right?
If you have these circles and closed triangles, squares, pentagons, that's like basic shapes out of geometry that are hidden in the pictogram.
It's not drawn on the field, it's hidden inside.
So obviously these things have been designed by an intelligent entity, so they are intelligent.
That message is, we are intelligent, we know what a triangle is, we know what a square is, we know what a pentagon is, and so on.
That doesn't mean it cannot be man-made, of course, because man is also intelligent, right?
But that's the message in those cases.
Yes, but that appears to be such an obscure message, Professor, that only somebody of your caliber Would find it not exactly the sort of thing that you do for great public relations or a great public reaction.
Exactly.
That is right.
And I think that's where the beautiful, intricate symbols that you see in the South of England fit in.
Those are the ones that also contain intelligence, clearly, because if you have these beautiful flowers and there's an 11-fold symmetry and it's all intricate and nice and fractal-like, Obviously, those formations have been made by some intelligent entity, but in those cases, the intelligence and the design, it's just very obvious.
It's very clear.
At first glance, you say, whoa, that's a beautiful thing.
That has been designed.
That's not just made occasionally.
It's not a random pattern.
That's a different thing, actually.
That is actually the sort of formation that I could imagine landscape artists would prefer to make.
They make something that's beautiful, something which is nice to look at, something that attracts attention, something that old people like.
So the message in those symbols is sort of, look how beautiful this is, how good I am at making crop circles.
However, other people say that the message is actually not sort of a... I should have It's not a message, sort of a language in the sense that you have to decipher the elements of the compositions and look at the ratios and sort of try to translate that into characters or words or something like that.
They say it's a communication attempt, many say by extraterrestrials or by some sort of supernatural entity, whatever.
I mean, I'm just quoting others here.
And they say that the message actually comes by simply looking at the diagrams, by just absorbing I mean, from a scientific point of view, obviously, there's not a lot you can say about that, because this is way, far away from any scientific approach.
Well, it is, but so is walking into the middle of a crop circle, and even if it's a minor feeling, having something disturbingly different, feeling something disturbingly different.
Well, there is something about the designs that I've personally experienced.
When I wrote my previous crop circle book, I made many black and white diagrams of these formations, particularly the ones we had in Holland.
And so I had a huge collection of these things lying on my table.
And actually, these were mainly these rings, bars, and circles types I told you about earlier.
And they are weird.
You look at the symbols, and there is something strange.
They're mystical.
I don't know.
It's slightly uncomfortable.
On the other hand, it's just very comfortable.
It's very strange.
They make you come back all the time.
You just want to look at them again and again and again.
You find yourself staring at the symbols all the time as if there's something in them.
And then, actually, I found that many times they're not very logical symbols.
For example, you have two bars which are not at square angles, but slightly off, like 80 degrees, something like that.
And there's a circle around the ring, which is not concentric, but slightly off center.
And then you wonder why is that sort of an inaccuracy that these guys that made it in the field just didn't know how to work accurately.
So then you sort of modify these symbols.
You make all the lines square to one another and you make all the rings concentric.
So that's sort of a logical thing the way you would think it would have to be.
And if you change them in this way, if you take out the slight irregularities, they completely lose this mystical character.
They turn into cold symbols that really don't appeal to you at all.
So it looks like there's a very intelligent design that sort of is in perfect harmony with the human perception of shapes or something like that.
I don't know how to express it, but it's... I mean, you have to experience it yourself.
Isn't it possible, though, Professor, that we're just talking about pure artistic appreciation?
In other words, if you take the Mona Lisa and remove half her face, the effect is really ruined, right?
Oh absolutely.
The thing is though that this effect seems to be present in nearly all of the crop circles that have appeared ever since we record them and that's in the order of 10,000 in the last 25 years or so.
So if there are in fact 10,000 of these formations and they all have these optical properties Obviously they cannot be designed by one single man, or made by one group of people.
There must have been many people involved, right?
Hundreds, thousands of people.
Absolutely.
So how come then that all these people mastered this art and can actually design the same style and the same mystical symbols that all have the same effect?
I mean, if you ask 1,000 people to draw something on a sheet of paper, You get a huge collection of all different things, and they're all different, and you like some of them, you don't like many others of them, and so it's like, you know, there's no structure in them.
Gee, you know, Professor, I was hoping for some answers.
You are asking the best questions I've ever heard, and all you're doing is causing me to believe more and more that these crop circles are something that it is now important to understand, and you just raised a million really good questions.
Hold on right there.
She asks questions really well, and there just aren't good answers, are there?
The trip back in time continues, with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
More, somewhere in time, coming up.
There's a man with a gun over there, telling me I got to beware.
I think it's time we stopped.
Children, watch that sound.
Everybody look what's going down I've had nothing but bad luck
Since the day I saw the cat at my door So I came in to you sweet lady
Answering your mystical call Crystal ball on the table
Showing the future, the past Same cat with them evil eyes
And I knew it was as fair how she cast She's just a devil woman with evil on her mind
Beware the devil woman, she's gonna get you She's just a devil woman with evil on her mind
Beware the devil woman, she's gonna get you from behind Can feel the rain on your finger
Let me see but I don't know where You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from December 17th, 2001.
My guest is Dr. Elcho Hasselhoff, actually a relative of THE Hasselhoff, he told me just before our time.
The one on Baywatch.
A theoretical physicist with a background longer than three arms.
Holy mackerel.
Well, listen, we'll get back to him in a moment.
I just want to call your attention to something, and probably crash my own website.
But, a fellow, uh, a fellow, let's see, what is his name?
Here we go, Toby Mac.
A fellow named Toby Mac has made a flash animation to go with the song that Crystal Gales sang for me.
Midnight in the Desert, and this is the most beautiful flash animation you've ever seen in your whole life.
Midnight in the Desert, he calls it.
And it does go with the song, and it's spectacular, and it's beautiful, and it's an 850K file.
And so now calling your attention to it will probably cause the site to crash.
If it does, go up there tomorrow and take a look, or the next day, but it really is beautiful.
You can take a look at artbell.com.
Go to Artbell.com and go to What's New.
It's the second item on What's New.
Flash animation, Midnight in the Desert.
You've got to see this.
Really cool stuff.
Dr. Haselhoff will be right back.
But you know, you don't have to be nocturnal to enjoy this amazing show.
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You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from December 17th, 2001.
Once again, Professor Hasselhoff, and as I was saying as we were going out of the last hour, You know, you hope for answers.
I understand that there are not answers to a lot of this, but you have raised so many really good questions, Professor.
How do you answer your own questions?
Well, sometimes I answer some of my questions, but typically when I answer one, I also invent three others, so it's sometimes a little bit frustrating.
There are many questions and interestingly the crop circle phenomenon is very much underestimated in its complexity.
If you read about it in the newspapers and magazines and so on then usually it's a pretty simple story and you could easily dismiss it then by just assuming that some people make some every once in a while.
It's not that simple.
There are many characteristics about the crop circle phenomenon that nobody is really aware of.
I would like to suggest to you, Professor, what one of my guests, I had a guest who was an airline pilot, very bright guy, and he claimed that he had deciphered crop circles Using the following method, he simply made replicas of the crop circles in a circle, within a circle, and then he took them and spun them like a turntable, an old 45 or 78 RPM turntable, and found that they assumed three-dimensional characteristics.
Yes, there's a book actually by Ruby that treats that approach.
I don't know.
The problem is there are so many crop circles.
There are so many designs.
There are so many different ways in which you can approach the designs and come up with some sort of meaningful explanation.
It's hard to figure out if that's actually valid for all of them.
It might very well be that some of the formations can be interpreted in that way, but there is so much variance.
There are so many different types of formations that I think they are to be interpreted in many different ways, and perhaps this is one of them.
Actually, I liked the approach.
It was very, very original.
I did, too, and I thought somebody like yourself might have followed up on it.
I have not, no, really.
There are so many things to do, really.
Sometimes I'm desperate, I'll tell you.
I try to stick to the most basic things.
And I'll just start at the very beginning and just go step by step without making too large jumps.
So I'm actually at the interpretation of the basic symbols and at the biophysical anomalies in the crops, because those are extremely interesting.
All right.
Are you able to either rule in or completely rule out extraterrestrial participation?
I'm afraid not.
I'm always very brief in that one.
There's no way to rule it out, obviously.
I always say it's the simplest explanation in the sense that if you would assume that these things are made by an extraterrestrial intelligence, it would just answer all the questions at once.
You're done.
It would answer every question you have.
Clearly, if these aliens can make these things, they must be so advanced.
They can do anything, and they will probably reason In a way that I'm not even capable of doing, so I can't say anything at all.
And that's actually where the discussion ends.
I always think that if this is coming from outer space by some sort of advanced civilization, then probably it's going to be so complicated for my simple three-dimensional human brain that I might as well stop thinking about it.
There's no reasoning, no conclusions I can reach.
I mean, who says that an alien will reason like I do?
Well, another possibility, of course, is from another dimension.
Now, people like yourself, theoretical physicists, are beginning to think real hard about many different dimensions.
Is that not correct?
That is right, yes.
And I think that if you approach the crop circle phenomenon, you have to stretch your thoughts, because it's not so simple.
It might seem simple at a first glance, if you're just confronted with it for the first time, But if you go into depth and if you really take the time to
verify the things personally and just check it out for yourself, you'll just find that
it's not so simple.
And you have to stretch your thoughts, perhaps even beyond the boundaries of mainstream science.
Like I said, I'm making a living as a scientist.
Then I cannot allow to...
I have to stay behind the fence that sort of stakes out mainstream science and metaphysics,
So I know where the boundary is.
But sometimes when I'm approaching crop circles, I'm just jumping over that fence.
I'm just sort of wandering around in the wilderness and see if anything happens.
Most of the time it doesn't.
But I mean, like I said, you have to stretch your thoughts.
Well, do any of your colleagues ever shout over the fence at you?
What the hell are you doing?
Well, sometimes it happens, but usually... No, actually, I don't have much problems.
See, I'm not... It's not that I'm trying to convince anyone or that I'm sort of defending Krupp Circles as a mystery.
It's not that I insist, you know.
I'm just asking questions.
And as far as my colleagues cannot answer these questions, there's no reason to shout at me.
See, it's as simple as that.
Well, I'm not an academic, Sean.
Well, I don't know.
There are many valid questions you can ask.
Actually, I'm not making many claims.
I'm basically just asking questions.
The only claim I've made so far is that there is circumstantial evidence that these light spheres are involved in crop circle creation.
That's just a very straightforward experiment you can perform.
It has been performed several times now.
We find linear relationships in note lengthening, which is a fact that we understand pretty well.
That corresponds perfectly with the eyewitnesses that say that they see a ball of light flying over a field, heating up the crops, and making crop circles.
I don't understand how it flattens the thing, but I do understand how it heats the formation.
And that all makes perfect sense.
And what do you think of the odds that this plasma ball, which is said to be self-sustaining, they're discovering now, impossibly self-sustaining, would be the same lights that you're talking about?
That's a very good hypothesis, really.
We know it is electromagnetic radiation.
That is clear.
That's why people see it, right?
It's light.
People see it as bright spheres, sometimes slightly amber color, sometimes whitish, but very bright.
They say they're hot, so actually sometimes they can see the air tremble around them.
And then all of a sudden this thing holds still and underneath a crop circle is made and in just a few seconds people then go in and they say that the air is hot and the soil is hot and the crop is hot, everything is hot.
Sounds like a ridiculous story but the first time you hear that you say, well okay, that's right.
But actually, like I said, there's circumstantial evidence.
We published a paper earlier this year in a scientific journal which sort of explains the theory, and it was accepted and published.
So that sort of shows that the ideas are being accepted by the scientific community as well.
It's not that strange, and it doesn't answer all the questions.
Actually, it doesn't answer any question.
It just creates more questions, like you just said.
But it is something that we can actually accept now as being the truth.
So that's an interesting platform to make your next steps from.
Well, since the plasma balls defy conventional physics, is there not going to be a time quite soon when physicists are going to have to begin saying, well, gee, maybe there's more to the world than we understand?
There are rules at play here that we have not discovered yet.
Yeah, well, that is a question that divides physicists into at least two different groups.
I tend to consider myself as part of the group that actually recognizes that the physics that we use is just a model.
It's just our own thoughts.
Physics is not the reality.
Physics is a technique to structure your thoughts.
It's like self-defense, which is a technique to defend yourself.
It doesn't mean that reality It's more like we're having all these perceptions of things happening around us and we have invented these mathematical models and they sort of structure our thoughts and allow us to predict certain perceptions again.
But that's just all in our own minds.
It doesn't mean that the universe is actually like that.
So it's very difficult to, it's impossible to say then that the universe or whatever you're seeing should obey those laws.
Most of the times they do because there's been generations of scientists figuring this all out, right?
And continuously adapting all these methods.
But I think it's a mistake to consider the universe, or reality, or whatever you want to call it, with the mathematical models that we invented.
Those are two completely different things.
Yes, but science is very stubborn in this area.
And Professor, there are many people like yourself who have developed careers by writing papers that rely on Standard physics, and they've received monies from governments and other institutions based on the credibility of those papers.
And if it turns out to be something altogether different, they're going to have a hard time changing their mind, aren't they?
That is right.
And that's why I'm not making money with my crop circle work.
That's just a hobby.
No, you're right.
That is true.
And actually, it's not the best thing as well, because if all scientists would just do whatever they think feels good, I don't think it would be a good thing.
I mean, it's good to be traditional and to stick to certain rules in science.
It's like playing a game, always.
You have to stick to the rules, right?
If you're playing baseball, you cannot hit the ball with a tennis racket.
It's just against the rules, so you shouldn't do it.
It doesn't mean that when you play tennis very well, you can't play baseball, right?
But you have to know what you're doing at the time.
On the other hand, Scientists tend to forget that most of the great brains in the past, guys like Max Planck and like Erwin Schrodinger and Albert Einstein, these people were very unconventional thinkers.
The ideas they created, they generated, were actually very much against the mainstream thoughts that were prevalent in those years.
And obviously, because it turned out that they were right after all, they've become famous and their work is appreciated and their thoughts and their ideas have been accepted as mainstream science.
But when they first came up with these ideas, they were not at all accepted right away.
So it sort of takes a paradigm shift whenever these new ideas are born.
So it means that it's important to stick to the rules and stick to the traditions and to not reach premature conclusions.
On the other hand, the only way to make progress, and it has been demonstrated millions of times, well, thousands of times at least in history, in scientific history, is to sort of basically forget everything you ever learned and just make a wild leap into the darkness and see if there's anything out there.
Yes, it's a wild leap that accounts for the giant leaps in technology we generally have.
Your book is called The Deepening Complexity of Crop Circle Scientific Research in Urban Legends.
I assume it's in English and available, oh, I don't know, Amazon.com and so forth, right?
That is right.
It's in English and it's available all over the United States and Canada and the rest of the world.
Okay, good.
We have a lot of people.
As a matter of fact, through my website, they can order the book.
What did you endeavor to do in the book?
Did you do as you're doing here tonight and raise such serious questions throughout?
I did it in a more structured way than I'm doing it tonight, I think.
Because when you write it down, it's easier.
But the intention of the book is to show that the crop sucker phenomenon is not so simple.
Like I said, the phenomenon is very much underestimated by many people.
And it's very difficult to get reliable and falsifiable information.
Information that you can verify yourself by simple photographs and with references and so on.
So what I try to do is write a book.
It's a popular scientific book, meaning it's not hard to understand really, but it's based on scientific articles and on solid Western scientific reasoning.
There's hardly any or no speculation in this book.
I did it on purpose because I want to have good arguments that demonstrate to people, listen guys, there's something happening and it's a worldwide phenomenon.
And although many people say it's just a hoax, There are very strange things going on and I can prove it.
I can show it to you.
Look at this photograph.
Look at this other photograph.
Look at that.
Look at this reference.
Look at this proof.
Sometimes it's just very clear.
Let me give you one example.
In 1997, we had a formation in a carrot field in the west of the Netherlands.
Carrots, you know.
And this formation from the airplane looked very strange.
It was sort of an irregular ellipse and an irregular square, and there were some crosses drawn through it.
It wasn't like the ones you see in the south of England, but it was very clearly an imprint in a carrot field.
So we went down, and we had a hard time finding this place because it was completely way out in the wilderness.
After two hours, though, we found it, and we found that this formation was actually made in carrots.
The carrot leaves all seemed to be cooked.
All the leaves were of a fresh green color.
However, inside this imprint, this large ellipse, they were all dark green.
They were all floppy, lying against the ground, all flattened.
But the weird thing was that this ellipse was divided in two halves.
In one half of the ellipse, all the carrot leaves were directed towards the west.
The other half of the ellipse, they were all ...in the opposite direction, all towards the east.
They were like combed in two halves.
At the imaginary boundary line in between these two halves, there was an entire row of carrot plants who had one half of the leaves in one direction, the other half of the leaves of the same plant in the other direction, and in the center a little tuft of upstanding carrot leaves.
And that is, I mean, when you're standing there... That's impossible.
And the strangest thing is that these carrot leaves are planted in sort of long ridges.
They sort of plow the earth in long ridges.
And the earth is very soft.
I mean, there's no way you can walk there without leaving imprints of at least one, two inch deep.
Professor, that would be like an electromechanical scalpel.
Something like that.
It is so strange.
And you don't need to be a rocket scientist To conclude that nobody has been walking around in that formation, because try stepping on carrots.
Try walking on carrot leaves.
You can't do that without leaving imprints.
And nevertheless, the entire floor was covered with carrot leaves, but they were all intact.
There was not a single trace of mechanical damage.
Nobody has been walking in that field.
Very clear.
What about residual effects measured?
Radiation, I've heard of electrostatic charges being measured in these fields.
What do you know about that?
That is right.
People tend to monitor these formations with electrostatic vault meters.
Personally, I believe, I've never done it myself because I think it is a very difficult experiment to perform Because if you're in a, particularly in the summer time, when you're in a wheat field, I mean there's a tremendous amount of electrostatic energy anyway.
There's these dry sort of straw-like stems, there's the wind blowing over it, there's all the atmospheric things.
I can imagine if you measure electrostatic potential, you will always measure something and it will be very difficult to distinguish anything unnatural from The chaos of electrostatic energy that's around everywhere.
Alright Professor, hold on.
We're at the bottom of the hour once again, so we'll take a quick break.
In this case, it was many, many times normal background.
From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM.
This is Premier Networks.
That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
This is the first time I've ever seen a man sing.
I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to sing this song.
you you
Hello darkness my old friend.
To one she's so badly, badly, badly But then a force was driving me on
I followed the gravity, gravity Hello darkness my old friend
I've come to talk with you again Because a vision softly creeping
Left its seeds while I was sleeping And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains within the sound of silence In restless dreams I walked around
Now it's good to call this home.
With the halo of age to blame.
I turned my collar to the cold and damp.
When my eyes were spared by the flash of a neon light It split the night
And cast the sun aside And in the naked light I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening People writing songs
That voices never share No wonder
Somewhere in time, with Art Bell, continues, courtesy of Premier Networks.
Sometimes, speaking with a theoretical physicist is like talking about, or actually considering the sound of silence.
Consider the sound of silence There is no real such thing as far as we know as the sound of silence or is silence in itself a sound?
Kind of like that speaking with the professor the consideration of adjacent Dimensions would fit into that category and I want to touch on that tonight as well Also his work with magnetic resonance Want to talk about that a little bit as well.
Lots to talk about.
We'll get to it.
Back to it in a moment.
tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from December 17th, 2001.
Once again, Professor Kesselhoff, all the way from the Netherlands, a pretty good connection
Professor, I am later this week going to interview another theoretical physicist, Dr. Michio Kaku of New York City, or of the City of New York University, and he has talked to us some great bit about other dimensions.
I wonder what your view is of this whole concept of other dimensions.
Well, I've never personally done any solid research in that concept.
On the other hand, in the many years that I've been walking around in crop circles, I've met many people that came forward with stories that seemed to be connected with other dimensions.
I'll give you a few examples.
There is, for example, there's one person I met.
He went to Mexico.
And he liked to do meditation, that sort of thing.
And at a certain point in Mexico, there were specific spots where he could actually meditate and get visions of what he called another world.
He said, there was another world.
I could see pyramids.
They were colored pyramids.
I could see a sky.
It was very real.
And it was only in those specific points.
And those were considered to be strong, energetic places, whatever.
Anyway, then he came back to Germany and there were some crop circles over there and he paid him a visit.
He told me that as soon as he entered these crop circles he got the same feelings.
He sat down and meditated and he said, I saw the same world.
This time he also saw people.
People walking around, he saw pyramids again, landscapes, skies and so on, but only when he was inside these crop formations.
If he tried to do the same thing outside of formations, it just didn't work.
He couldn't get into that same state.
There are many other people who told me similar stories.
There are actually many people who are not gifted, if you want to call them.
I don't know.
way who say that whenever they are inside a crop circle they feel like somebody is watching
them and actually it happens to me as well whenever I'm there I'm all by myself there's
nobody around yet you feel like as soon as you enter the thing there's no this feeling
of somebody standing beside you standing behind you something like that.
Oh yes.
It's a feeling that I know as well.
I don't know I mean if it's true what these people say if this is really truthful then
it hasn't suggested that these crop circles are actually sort of gates between our world
and another world another dimension or perhaps these formations actually are made from that
other dimension or the crop circle is sort of a boundary of you know it's a point where
these two different worlds touch or whatever.
We're very speculative, of course.
Alright, and then let's keep speculating.
Is it not possible, then?
That the electromagnetic radiation, whatever it was that was used to depress the crops in whatever manner we're talking about here, leaves a residue of a sort that allows this cross, sort of a door of communication.
Well, yes, actually I was sort of thinking perhaps this energy actually comes from that dimension, because as far as I can see it now, based on mainstream physics, there's just a tremendous amount of energy coming from nowhere.
Not our world, because all of a sudden it's there.
Like I said, the plasma balls theory... I mean, I can understand plasma balls, but these things have tremendous amounts of energy, so it has to come from somewhere.
Who knows?
These things are just made from another dimension.
There are actually many interesting reports.
There are thousands of them.
One interesting report is that... Well, one hypothesis is that, in fact, these crop circles only appear on boundaries between different dimensions.
And because of that, it allows you to sort of peek into that different dimension and have a look at the other world if you're capable of doing that.
But also, it seems to induce disturbances in time and space.
Well, I'm just going wild now, really.
I mean, this is not mainstream science, right?
No, no, no.
It doesn't mean that you're not allowed to talk about it.
On my program, you're allowed to talk about it.
Believe me.
Thank you.
Believe me, you're allowed to talk about it.
These time disturbances have been reported many times.
I mean, I know many people say that their watch is going slow inside crop circles.
And obviously, when you're a scientist, you say, hey, I mean, what sort of watch have you got?
I mean, did you check the batteries?
Yes, I did.
But, well, and if your watch is slow when you're sitting in your car, you just have it replaced.
You know, you get a new battery, you buy a new watch.
When you're in a crop circle, you say, well, this has been, the circle power is doing this.
I mean, that's your scientific approach.
However, when it starts happening to you, to myself in this case, you sort of change your mind slightly because, hey, this is the fourth time in the last month that I'm in the crop circle and I was just 15 minutes slow.
So that is strange.
It happens many times.
Photographic gear acting up, all sorts of weird things and always only the days that I was inside the crop circles.
There is actually one very interesting case.
It was described in a book by Andy Thomas.
He is a British crop circle researcher.
It's a photograph of a crop circle taken from ground level.
So you're seeing some trees and the field, and you're seeing the imprint, and you see some people walking around in a formation.
The interesting thing is, though, that inside the crop circle, it seems to be a double exposure, because you see the same people twice.
But it's not double exposure at the same time.
It's not like a reflection or something on the lens because all the people are standing in slightly different poses.
It's like the photograph was made twice with an interval of about one second or so.
That is very strange.
However, it only appears at the position where the crop circle is.
If you look at the horizon, you see that all the trees straight above the crop circle are actually twice in the photograph.
Oh my!
However, towards the edges of the photograph, the photograph is perfectly normal.
So there is an area around the crop circle where everything seems to be photographed twice,
at two different moments in time, but it's not a double exposure,
because in that case the entire photograph would have been like that.
All right, so it's an anomaly only consistent with the area of the crop circle.
Yeah, it's like two different moments in time sort of merged into one single moment at a time shutter of the camera.
It's the strangest artifact I've ever seen.
Do you possess that photograph?
I don't possess it, but I know the guy who has it.
And there's actually a copy in Andy Thomas's book.
Of this photograph.
It's a very well-known case.
I sure would love to lay my hands on that.
I'm sure somebody will send me a copy of the photograph.
I'll send you an email.
Oh, please.
And I'll tell you all about it.
I promise.
Please do.
artbell.minespring.com.
Alright, then this will be an easy jump for you.
It says here you were a senior clinical scientist in the Magnetic Resonance Marketing Department of a leading provider of medical imaging equipment where you specialized in the use of MR in the battle against heart disease.
Now, I have had all of these strange stories.
I want to just give you a brief idea of what I've had, Professor, of people who work in magnetic resonance clinics, and they have told me, some on the air and some off the air, Professor, that they have seen really weird things that they will not talk about with their bosses in
and around MRI machines, very large MRI machines.
They have seen entities, they have seen things that they refuse to talk about because they'll
get fired.
Does that surprise you?
Actually, well, let's put...
No, well, after being in corruption for 13 years, there are a few things that surprise
you, I'll tell you that.
So, now that you've told it to me, no, it doesn't surprise me.
On the other hand, I must admit that I have not seen many strange things, but perhaps that's because I'm not behind the MRI scanners all day, just occasionally, and I'm more like working from my desk.
I know how to handle these machines, but I'm not an expert.
Yeah, these are the technicians.
If they don't talk to their bosses, they probably don't talk to me as well.
The only thing that I have encountered several times is that they saw strange things inside human bodies, like a little, perfectly cubic thing, which is pitch black, which is definitely there, which is a few millimeters, and it's right in the middle of his head.
That's right.
That's right.
That's sort of an implant and nobody knows what it is.
That has been mentioned several times.
Actually sometimes people came to me because I'm in the Manhattan Residence and they asked
me if that could be an image artifact and so on.
The few ones I've seen were by no means image artifacts.
These things were actually there.
Well, they are.
I've been through MRIs myself and had some interesting experiences because I was looking for them.
I actually tried to have them after hearing the stories and I'll be doggone if I didn't have them.
So in other words, dimensional shifts or even time itself may be in some way involved with large electromagnetic energy.
I know there were experiments Rumored years and years ago, the Philadelphia Experiment, others that used electromagnetics and other energies to produce invisibility or time travel or something or another like that.
Yeah, I know.
I've read the book.
It's very fascinating.
And it seems to be a branch of physics that started a long time ago, but that sort of was cut off or never really developed.
It's very interesting and like Philadelphia Experiments, the things that you encounter around the crop circles seem to be related to that.
But again, it's all very speculative because most of the time it's just people telling
something or having heard something.
So there have not been performed carefully executed experiments.
So from a scientific point of view, you have to be careful to reach conclusions.
On the other hand, there are so many people coming forward with these reports that I don't
think it's a good thing to just ignore it completely.
And like I said, if these weird things start to happen to yourself, then it's sort of a
paradigm shift.
For me it was.
I've had all the photographic gear acting up.
That's typically something like a watch that needs a battery replacement.
You're just able to get another battery and stop talking about it.
I've had one case, for example, where I came home and I developed my photograph.
This was before the digital cameras.
And all my photographs were overexposed.
And I was very surprised because I've been making photographs since I was three.
I mean, I never had such a trivial problem.
And I had a good camera.
So I said, well, what's wrong?
I probably have a camera fix, whatever.
And then I found actually that there were five photographs out of the 36 that were properly exposed.
And then I saw that those photographs were taken when I was standing outside the crop circle.
I was standing in the field and making photographs of the crop circle from a distance.
All the other ones, 31, were all overexposed and those were taken while I was standing inside the crop circle.
So I separated these two groups and then I noticed that some of the photographs were very much overexposed.
And those were the ones that I took close to the soil, like close-up photographs of earth crumbs and that sort of stuff, bent stems, and those were much more overexposed than the ones that I took when I was standing up.
And not a single one was missing, you know what I mean?
That is just very peculiar.
That's very strange.
Actually, I don't have any explanation for it whatsoever, because it cannot have been radiation or something that's sort of going right through the body of my camera, because in that case, all the photographs should have been destroyed, right?
It must have come through the shutter of the camera, stronger when you're close to the ground, and it baffled me, really.
I still don't... Sometimes I just have a look at the photographs and, you know, a deep sigh, and then they just go back in the... Well, again, though, Professor, the same... I'm going to ask the same thing all over again, and that is, somebody like yourself, a scientist, somebody who...
Depends on physical explanations for things.
When he finds something he doesn't understand, a scientist proceeds in a specific way to understand it.
But these things are so far out of the ability of anybody to understand them, it must be, particularly for a scientist, extremely frustrating.
Well, frustrating is... partially frustrating.
On the other hand, it's very interesting as well, because Not understanding something is the force that keeps scientists going.
It's your gasoline.
If you understand everything, you just stop working.
The drive comes from not understanding, and that's why I've been going on with this for 13 years now.
It takes me lots of time.
Really, I'm not always having a great time.
Can you imagine when there's a summer season here, we have many formations, and people call you, and there's something interesting, and it's a 200-mile drive.
And my family is at home.
So I said, well, sorry guys.
Do you mind if I go?
No, no.
You go.
And you just go there.
And it's raining.
And it's cold.
And you're in this muddy field.
And you're performing measurements of these formations.
And it's cold, wet.
You're far away.
We pay lots of money for gas in this country.
A gallon of gas is, I don't know, $10.
It's very, very expensive.
Wow.
And you say, well, what's the point?
What am I doing here?
You feel like a fool sometimes.
You're muddy.
You're wet.
You're cold.
You're not spending time with your family.
And why are you doing this?
Probably some farmer's son is having a tremendous laugh.
He's seeing me here standing in this field performing measurements with a tape roller.
He must have the day of his life.
So sometimes that is frustrating.
On the other hand, then when you come back and you work out all your measurements and you find these things, for example, the things I explained earlier with the triangles and the squares.
That makes your day again and that keeps you going.
Why on earth did they do this?
And when you're standing in this carrot formation and you're just seeing all these carrot leaves so delicately flattened against the soil and it's so clear that nobody had set foot in that formation when you're seeing a circle in a frozen field.
All of a sudden there's a huge circle and a cross in a snow-covered field and all the snow is gone and there are no footprints except your own.
I mean, that's what keeps you going.
That's sort of what makes it up for all the days that you were spending your money on gasoline and being cold and hungry.
Well, speaking of being cold and hungry, crop circle research usually doesn't send the kids to college, so I assume that's why you decided to write the book.
No, no.
Like I said, I have a job in industry, and crop circle is just one of my hobbies.
The book was actually written because I felt there was a need.
It is frustrating when you read about crop circles in popular magazines and journals and newspapers and you're just seeing that what's written down is simply not true.
Claims are made that are false.
Very important information is not mentioned.
That's sort of frustrating.
And whenever I talk about crop circles with friends, obviously they ask me about it.
Sometimes I lecture, people ask me to come and give a presentation.
Everybody goes, how come we don't know about this?
I mean, this is all so clear.
This is all so incredible.
And how is it possible that we don't know about this?
And that was actually the reason for me to write the book.
I think that if something is happening that is interfering with our crop fields, something is going on.
It's very real.
And nobody understands what it is.
And some people just say, oh, it's just some Some jokers with garden rollers.
Well, alright, here's a good question for you, Professor.
How much evidence is there that these, whatever this is, actually is aimed at crops?
There's some indication that these circles have appeared in ice, they've appeared in dirt, they've appeared in other areas where they would be visible, just not noticed so much.
Yes, that is correct, actually.
Obviously, the ones in crops are much more reported because If there's a formation in a wheat field, the farmer will find it the same day because they usually check the fields to see if there's any damage.
Or a pilot.
Or a pilot.
If there's a formation in snow, like we've had several in snow and ice, in Canada there have been several snow and ice formations, they may not last very long because, you know, just when the snow melts, they're gone.
We're having many formations in grass, for example, in the Netherlands.
Except that the circle in grass will last about one or two days and then the grass is very strong.
It will just lift itself up and you can't see it anymore.
It's more difficult to see as well or the cows will eat it.
Formations in sand probably only last a few minutes because it's a little bit of wind will just blow them away.
Right.
Except the ones in cereal crops will last for weeks or even months.
All right.
Professor, we are at the top of the hour, and I've got to ask you whether you want to stick around and answer a few questions from the audience.
Absolutely.
My pleasure.
Oh, good.
All right.
In the meantime, you're listening to Professor Hasselhoff all the way from the Netherlands, and we'll get back to him and your questions coming up in just a moment.
I'm Mark Bell from the high desert.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
More, somewhere in time, coming up.
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Where they play the right music.
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Where the play's about music Getting in between
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Premier Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from December 17th, 2001.
Actually, it's an appropriate piece of bumper music considering the part of the world we're speaking with.
My guest is Dr. Elcho Hasselhoff from the Netherlands.
All the way from the Netherlands.
Even though it sounds kind of like he's right next door, doesn't it?
I'm Art Bell.
And we'll get right back to him.
Stay right where you are.
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Explore your universe with Coast to Coast AM.
Assuming there's life like ours on other planets in this universe, do you think they too might be looking for this God particle?
Or this question of who are we?
How did we get here?
Or do you think they even have the answer by now?
If they're sentient, intelligent beings, I have no doubt in my mind they're asking the same questions that we're asking.
And the day you find a being that's not looking is the day you probably found God.
Now, we take you back to the past, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Once again, Professor Hasloff, and we're going to tone here in a moment.
Professor, when we began the interview, you said it was 8 o'clock or something like that in the morning.
The sun hadn't come up because of how far north you are.
I wonder what time it is.
What time does your sun come up there?
Around nine, basically, but it's still very dark.
It's not very high up.
It's light out now.
It's quarter past ten, and it's light, but it's overcast, so it's dark anyway.
So it's a long, dark, cold winter in the Netherlands.
Yeah, it's not the best time of the year.
Do you spend much time in the States?
I come to the States quite often, yes, a couple of times a year for my regular work.
Okay.
All right.
Very good.
All right.
Well then, here come a few questions.
Let's see what we've got here.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Professor Hasselhoff.
Where are you, please?
Yes, sir.
Florida.
Florida.
Okay.
Yes, sir.
Go ahead.
Good evening, Mr. Bell.
Good evening.
Actually, good morning, Professor.
I've got a kind of remark.
Maybe you can, if I can get your ideas on it.
And I believe Einstein touched something about the subject.
Striking similarities between quantum physics and Buddhism.
And I will get offline.
Thank you so much.
All right.
Thank you.
So, in other words, quantum physics and indeed some sort of mental discipline like Buddhism or some form of concentration.
Beginning to see a meshing of these, Professor?
Well, there is actually one Dutch researcher who has a theory that connects quantum physics with crop circles, and it's very complicated, and I must admit I don't even understand it entirely myself, and by no means I could explain it on the phone here, but there are thoughts, there have been thoughts in that direction, and as far as Buddhism goes, I do know that several crop symbols that have appeared are in fact being used as meditation symbols, as sort of
spiritual as sort of cleaning mechanisms to clean the inside of your
spiritual body, if you want to call it like that.
So yes, there is actually, I think that most people that are interested in crop circles
are interested from a spiritual way rather than a scientific way.
I mean, the number of scientists are... we're not many.
Well, all right, then this would be a pretty good question, I guess.
I guess it's no great mystery now that ecologically we're in some trouble in the world.
There are some people who relate to the crop circle phenomena somehow to what's going on ecologically with the world.
Any thoughts on that?
Well, I think, yeah, if there is a message behind crop circles, and even if there isn't, I think the best way to interpret them is, in fact, to think about that.
Because, you're right, crop circles make you think.
They make people think.
They make me think.
And if you're looking at the phenomena, you're looking at the symbols, you're seeing that something is happening on a worldwide scale.
There's one appearing basically every day in the last 25, 30 years.
Then it makes you think about who we are, what we're doing here, and how are we doing it.
It makes you reconsider the important things in life.
So if there's a message, I wouldn't be surprised if it is in fact connected to that, and that would be a good thing, because obviously we need to do something, don't we?
We indeed need to do something.
The Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Professor Hasselhoff.
Hello.
Hello, this is David.
I'm calling from Green Bay, Wisconsin.
Yes.
I'm wondering if perhaps we may be viewing the crop circle phenomenon backwards, literally backwards.
From the very beginning, we have seen crop circles become more and more complex.
And I'm wondering what it would have been like if we could have seen the most complex first And then gradually work our way down to the most simple.
And I'm wondering if there's any understanding to come out of this.
If there could be understanding by viewing it this way.
It would be like looking into a mirror.
I don't understand the psychology of what you're asking.
In other words, it seems to me that from the simple to the complex is a tutorial intended to have you following along.
The other way around wouldn't make sense.
Right, but it would be like looking into a mirror At handwriting.
If it is from a parallel universe, it may be backwards.
Oh!
I'll hang up and I'll take your comments off the air.
Thank you, R. You're very welcome.
All right.
Professor?
Actually, that's a very interesting thought.
I've never thought along those lines.
I'll try to do some homework, I guess.
There's one thing I can say, though, and that is that Actually, two things.
In the first place, if we would have had a formation like the famous face that appeared last August in the Chilbolton in England, and actually was sort of a pixelated photograph of a human-like face, if that would have happened 25 years ago, I don't know, probably it would have caused a major chaos, panic worldwide.
I mean, that would have been a thing.
Today, interestingly, in fact we seem to be in sort of a process and we just get used to the things.
It started simple and then every year you need a better formation to be impressed at the same level as the year before.
There hasn't been a single year in which the best crop circle of that year was less than the best crop circle of previous years.
Every year the record is broken again.
Good point.
Someone tries to make us used to something.
That's actually what many people say.
They say, this is an attempt by extraterrestrials, and they just don't want to have us panic when they arrive.
So they just make it better every year.
At a certain point, we'll have crop circles just falling in front of our feet while we're mowing the lawn, and we won't even be surprised anymore.
Well, all right.
That's an interesting point here in America.
In the commercial media, television and the movies, we have aliens all over the place.
I'm sure you've seen them here.
I know, it's the same over here.
Is it really?
Is it the same in the Netherlands?
It is the same over here.
People are getting used to it.
I'll tell you, there are photographs.
I remember, for example, there's a photograph from 1996.
It was the triple Julius, they had to call it.
It was three sort of spiraling arms made of circles.
It was the most awesome crop formation that we've ever seen.
It was such an incredible thing.
Now, five years later, if we look back at that photograph, it's like, hmm, what's that all?
It's nothing compared to the last Milk Hill one, because it only had 196 circles.
You're sort of getting, you know, used to it.
So it's a process, a slow process, a psychology process, and I don't think it would have worked out if it would have gone backwards.
I mean, it would have caused major panic, and we would have panicked first, and then we would have lost all the attention.
Well, there was the Brookings Report, Professor, which said that the group most disturbed by alien contact would be scientists.
They would be absolutely flummoxed and upset.
And I wonder if you believe that would still be true today.
I've often wondered about that.
I know that, yes, that's already the case, I think.
There are different types of scientists.
Many scientists just refute to do anything with With anything that's outside of this territory.
I mentioned before, they sort of see that as a sort of scientific heresy.
You know, once you've had those sort of thoughts, they consider that as sort of a fatal disease.
You can never be cured again.
You're no longer considered a scientist.
It's their good right to do that.
I mean, it's their way of seeing science.
And mine is just different.
You know, perhaps it's even better like that.
It makes the world more interesting.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Hasselhoff in the Netherlands.
Hello.
Hello.
Art?
Yes.
Okay, this is George from New Franklin, Missouri.
Okay.
Listen, this is just hypothesizing, but why couldn't a time traveler from the future be dimension-shifting to prevent a paradox?
All right.
Well, that's actually pretty wild stuff, but there is some reason to, I suppose, ask that question, whether these things could be... I've heard it said they could be markers by time travelers, or it could be in some way related to time travel.
Not too far out, Professor?
Well, it's sort of a logical assumption.
I've had several occasions where, in fact, by means of channeling sessions, exactly this was said.
It was said that these are messages from the future, actually from humans.
It's man-made, but it's not man from today.
It's man out of the far future that are doing these things to establish something that we don't understand yet, but we will on the short term.
The other interesting thing is that with the increasing technology, I mean, technology is increasing at a tremendous pace and it's going faster and faster all the time, You might say, well, how much longer before we can manipulate time?
There are experiments that already indicate that we are able to do that.
So let's wait another 100 years.
Can we time travel in 100 years?
Well, perhaps not.
What about 1,000 years then?
What about a million years?
What about 10 million years?
I mean, eventually, you could expect that you would, if it's possible to travel in time, that we will get there if we don't blow up the Earth before we arrive at that point, obviously.
So, in the far future, it will happen, and if we can go back, then, well, there must be traces of future activities today, right?
So, it's not a very strange thought.
I don't really know what I can say about it.
Again, it's very speculative, but it's an interesting line to have your thoughts on.
Absolutely.
You mentioned if we don't blow up the Earth first.
Again, I'm going to be interviewing Professor Kaku later this week, and it is his theory that there are different levels of civilization.
After all, there must be life out there, and that there are different types of civilization.
Type 0, type 1, type 2, type 3.
Increasingly complex, able to control increasingly complex energies.
And he suggested that Type 0 civilizations rarely, if ever, very rarely, occasionally, but rarely, make it from Type 0 to Type 1.
After the discovery of Element 92, they generally destroy themselves more times than not.
Would you agree with that?
Well, I'm not sure if I'm Type 0, but I don't know.
It's well possible.
I mean, if you look at history in the last 10 years and compare that with history in the early 20th century things have dramatically changed and really I'm not at all comfortable when I see what's happening around us and you know it's going nonlinear in many respects and of course I'm I'm doing my best and many others are doing their best but it's just it is tricky you know it's actually it brings me to another thought that I got an email this morning from someone
We said that in the Bible, there's the book of Revelations.
It says that actually before the end of times and before the second coming of Christ, there will be signs on earth.
Signs in heaven, signs on earth.
And actually say, hey, we've got the UFOs and the balls of light and we've got the crop circles.
I mean, signs of earth have arrived.
Nobody can deny that, even if they're all man-made.
The signs on earth are there.
I don't know.
Sometimes it's a scary thought, but it's a thought that we have to confront, I would say.
Well, it's interesting.
I interviewed a national political leader, a religious leader the other night, and I asked him specifically if there are these signs that we are seeing and the possibility of an alien landing or the sudden realization of alien presence, and it was his view.
That these would be, absolutely would be, demonic beings.
So I thought for a long time, professor, that before a little green guy could ever get to
the bottom of the ramp of his spaceship, he'd be so full of lead, he'd be killed so quickly.
Yeah, actually this was suggested by one other person once during a lecture.
After a lecture somebody came up and he said actually that these crop circles are dark forces and they try to mislead us and everything.
I don't know.
Obviously this is something you cannot argue about or you cannot even reason about.
It's just all emotions, right?
But I have the feeling that it's a gentle phenomenon.
I've been in these things for many years.
I've been in hundreds of crop circles.
I've looked at them, photographed them.
I never had that feeling.
I actually always felt pretty good.
It's interesting.
It's friendly.
People tend to be very friendly inside crop circles.
Discussions that take place inside crop circles are always very friendly, very calm.
There's no difference between male, female, old, young, races, and so on.
So, they seem to have a good effect on people anyway.
So, better than the lines at the grocery store?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
All right.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Hesselhoff in the Netherlands.
Hello.
Good evening.
My name is Bart.
Okay, Bart, where are you?
I'm calling from Victoria, British Columbia.
Okay.
I have two observations.
One for you, Art, and one for your guest.
Sure.
The one to you, a few minutes ago you had an ad For the best radio.
I gotta tell you, Art, you, your hosts, co-hosts, your guests, and your audience are the best radio program in the world.
Oh, that's very kind.
Thank you.
I mean it.
I've followed you for about eight months now, and you've got me turned on.
That's very kind of you.
Thank you.
An observation to your guest.
I've noticed that I just turned into the program late, and there was a comment about the photographs being a little bit different, and one of the things that might be I don't know who took the pictures or how the doctor came into possession of the pictures, but if somebody were using a three-dimensional camera, a 3D camera takes two pictures at the same time, and one picture is just slightly to the left of the other picture, that might account for what you're seeing.
And if I, for the sake of argument, want to give you misleading information, I'll give A picture taken on 3D and I'll give you the left one and the right one and say that's inside the circle and then take a normal picture with another camera outside.
But listen, I'm going to take your idea and run with it a little bit.
What an interesting thought, Professor.
What if somebody were to, after what you've told me about this photograph you have, to go into a crop circle with a three-dimensional camera?
I wonder then if the result might be The crop circle looking normal while the adjacent field would be distorted.
Yes, that's a very good suggestion indeed.
And actually, I've personally performed a couple of these experiments with no strange results, I must add.
And it actually brings you right to the problem that many of the ideas you have Are just difficult to do when you're not a full-time professional crop circle researcher with lots of funding So I've done actually twice or three times.
I made Photographs with the stereoscopic cameras really yeah, and it's not a very hard thing to do actually we're trying to photograph these these light spheres because there are many photographs of these these balls of light and And I think that in many cases there are simpler explanations.
But if you can make a stereoscopic photograph and it appears in two separate photographs, then you can actually not only conclude that the thing must have really been there, but you can also measure its size and its distance from the cameras and so on.
Well, that one photograph that you mentioned, I truly would like to put that on my website for everybody to see.
I can arrange that.
I will take care of that.
My email address is artbell, that's A-R-T-B-E-L-L at mindspring.com, and I would just dearly love to have that photograph.
The professor says he can arrange it.
Now, that photograph taken shows a distortion, a doubling within the crop circle, which might be explained by a double exposure or any camera artifact or anything, except That everything else outside the crop circle is absolutely normal.
And there is nothing conventional that I know of that explains that.
So, when I get a copy of that photograph from the professor, it will immediately go on my website.
I'm Art Bell.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
tonight featuring coast to coast am from december seventeenth two thousand one
without a doubt
dot the
the the
You know me No one waiting by your side.
You've been rushed, I've been rushed too long.
You know it's just your foolish mind.
Well, love, got me on my knees, yeah.
Dang it, darling, please don't leave.
Darling, don't you leave my lonely life.
I tried to give you congratulations.
Oh, man, I let you down.
Like a fool, I fell in love with you.
You turned my whole world upside down.
And, hey, love, you got me all right.
You are listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from December 17th, 2001.
Good morning, everybody.
Dr. Elcho Hasselhoff.
Actually, in some way, related to David Hasselhoff.
I'm going to ask about that in a second.
I keep meaning to ask about that.
He's a theoretical physicist coming to us all the way from the Netherlands.
And if you'll stay there, he'll be right back.
Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
What's your favorite part of the movie? Let us know in the comments.
Once again, all the way back to the Netherlands and Professor Hasselhoff.
You are related to the David Hasselhoff we all know over here.
In what way?
Well, that's what some people told me.
Our family goes back a long way to the Middle Ages, and actually a few people in our family sort of tried to figure out the entire family tree from today to a long time ago.
I was told that there appears to be a branch that emigrated to the States 150 years ago or so, and that Mr. David Hasselhoff is supposed to be one of the sprouts of that branch.
But I never had my DNA checked and compared, and actually, I never met the guy.
So I don't even know if it's his real name, but there are rumors.
And actually, the name Hasselhoff, there are not many with that family name.
It's sort of a strange family name.
Well, then I may get a message from him, and if I do, I'll pass on the information.
Thank you.
All right, first time caller line, you're on the air with Professor Hasselhoff way over there in the Netherlands.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi.
Where are you, sir?
Sunnyvale, California.
Sunnyvale, okay.
I would like to know, Professor, if you've ever speculated on whether an inter-dimensional event like this might be a crop circle creation, would require something akin to the realization of virtual particles, which would require I'm not sure, but I think that's what he's been saying, Professor.
Yes, although it has been, I repeat myself, speculative, obviously.
or something that might explain the anomalies you experience.
I'm not sure, but I think that's what he's been saying, Professor.
Yes, although it has been, I repeat myself, speculative, obviously.
I see the point is that it is very difficult to record the actual mechanism.
I've never seen a crop circle being created myself, so I have to listen to what other
It is not something that you can actually perform in a controlled experiment to measure.
You could do it with lightning or something.
You know when lightning is coming, you can wait for it.
Crop circles just don't come on demand, so it's very difficult to gather your information.
The only thing that we can actually gather is the circumstantial evidence that's left in the fields after the formation has been created.
And that's basically biophysical anomalies in the crops.
Sometimes it's chemical disturbations, certain strange deposits.
Sometimes it was actually radioactivity.
So we do have some clues, but really very little to actually produce complicated models with so far.
So we just have to continue and monitor all the events and all the data we can get.
There was, within the last couple of years, Professor, a very interesting case in Great Britain somewhere.
I can't recall.
Somebody had a video camera running and actually caught these balls of light, and then there was a resulting crop formation, they claimed, instantly, and it was indeed there the next morning.
Now, they caught all this on videotape.
Are you aware of all of that?
Yeah, that was Oliver's Castle in, I think it was 1997, if I'm not mistaken.
There you are.
It was a six-fold snowflake-like formation, which was actually... Yeah, the guy was there.
He was having a night watch.
Many people do, actually, in England.
They just spend the night in the fields, hoping to see a crop circle form.
And this was one of them, and he woke up by a strange noise, and he saw balls of light flying around on the field below him.
So he just grabbed his camera, which didn't work in the first place, but it was humid, and so...
After a while it started running and while he was filming these balls of light, the crop circle appeared right while he was filming it.
Obviously, this is a very controversial piece of footage.
I mean, obviously, per definition I would almost say.
I had a sort of similar event last summer.
We were in a crop formation which consisted of eight circles.
We had seen it from the airplane, from the aerial photograph.
There were eight circles there.
and there had always been eight circles and we were there, we were taking samples and
everything, there were three of us and when we went to go away, my friend just wanted
to make a last photograph from the tail of the formation so he went all the way to the
far end and he saw that there was a ninth circle there and it wasn't there when we entered
the field.
Ha ha.
And so, and that has been reported before by other people.
I mean, crop circle people, they're in the crop circle, they're actually taking measurements, they go home for lunch, come back one hour later, enter the same field, and there are two crop circles there in one hour.
And it's huge, and it's complicated.
The thing is, if you hear these stories, it's just hard to believe.
But that's a very natural human reaction.
And even in this case, while I was there in the field, and we have photographs.
We made photographs when we entered the field.
There were eight circles.
You can check it out.
When we left, there were nine circles.
Nevertheless, I still have this uncomfortable feeling, like, this can't be.
I mean, it must have... Somebody must have done it.
I mean, there must... You know, it's just something that your brain refutes to believe.
So all I can do is present the facts.
And I really... I don't even have an opinion about it, because it's just too strange.
This whole thing is too strange.
All right.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Professor Hasselhoff in the Netherlands.
Hello.
Yes.
Hello, Art.
Good morning.
Good morning.
I'm calling from Long Island, New York, and I have two quick questions for Professor Hasselhoff.
The first one being, has any infrared photography been used to probe the crop circles?
The second being, has any detection equipment been used to look at subatomic particles?
All right.
Professor?
The answer to the first question is yes.
There have been infrared photographs made.
And they clearly indicate that crop circles are warm after they are created.
And the heat remains there for a long time.
You can actually measure heat with quite sensitive equipment.
So many hours later you can still see it's warm.
I mean you could figure that one out because there are all these burn marks inside of formations.
There are dehydrated plants usually.
Most of the times there are these very strong dehydrated characteristics of all the plants inside of formations.
So we know that heat is involved.
That's why the snow melts as well.
Subatomic particles, not that I know of.
The only experiment I know of was performed a couple of years ago where they actually were looking for radioactivity.
And they took several samples from the soil inside the formation, and they found an entire spectrum of non-natural radioactivity, which are all sort of short-living isotopes, which could have been produced from what we call heavy hydrogen, if you excite it with an energy of about one mega electron volt protons.
Well, that's a lot of energy, and that could sort of induce an atomic chain reaction.
That could, in principle, produce most of the elements that were found.
A very strange finding, indeed.
But that's the only thing I know of as far as subatomic or atomic research has been.
It's interesting.
Before I brought you on the air tonight, Professor, I was almost sure that you were going to tear into the credibility of those who claim these things about crop circles.
And you haven't done that at all.
In fact, if anything, you have raised More questions, significantly more questions than most of the researchers that I've had on the air have ever raised.
Well, I think that is the only... Well, no, I think that's not the only good approach, but I think it's the good approach.
The question about crop circles that you should ask, I don't think is, are they man-made or not?
Because if you ask that question, then the discussion is apt to go like, well, are they man-made or not?
If they are not man-made, and it's clearly intelligence that makes it, If they're not man-made and they're intelligence, who makes them?
Well, animals, no, obviously.
So what else?
Well, the only thing that's left is actually aliens or some sort of super-dimensional entity.
And that's just sort of uncomfortable discussion for many people because it takes you so far away from the simple human three-dimensional reasoning that you cannot be sure of anything you say, right?
So actually what you should do, I think, personally, is ask the question, how are crop circles made? I think that's
a good question.
How are they made? And if someone says, well, you just take a rope and planks
and you just walk a circle, and then you say, well, how come there are no footprints in the
How come there are no footprints in the snow-covered field?
How come there's dehydrated plants?
How come there's growth anomalies in the seedlings of the seeds you take out of the crop circles?
How come there's no lengthening increase?
All these are very concrete, simple observations, reproducible, you can measure it, you can just go back to the crop circle, perform the experiment again, and you cannot I agree with you.
In Alaska we have a project called HAARP, which is an ionospheric heater.
anyone who said it's a garden rollers should at least address
these actions of the i i i agree with you are in the in the alaska we have a a project called
heart which is an ionospheric heater in your part of the world and a few others
there are also uh... not many people know this uh... very similar
uh... projects going immense amount of uh... amounts of energy uh... into the
ionosphere in a focused manner There are some people who believe these types of experiments could be responsible, possibly, for this kind of phenomena.
What do you think?
Well, perhaps for a part of it, it's hard to tell.
The heating part is actually the straightforward thing.
I could imagine that you can heat up a piece of crop from a long distance.
However, the recent developments indicate very clearly that the heat is coming from a close distance.
The heat is coming from an order of 10-20 feet above the soil.
Oh, really?
In what way, Professor, is that determination made?
Well, imagine it's this note lengthening effect.
If you measure the nodes or the little knuckles in the stems of corn type plants, right, you get little knuckles all over the stems, these things tend to swell.
They are longer inside crop circles and they're much longer and there are no known biological effects that can actually produce this note length increase.
Now you find that if you put these nodes in a microwave oven, if you heat them up, They do the same thing.
They get longer.
It's just like a mercury thermometer, right?
The liquid content of the cells expands and the node gets longer.
Sure.
Now, then it appears that the node length and distribution is such that in several cases it was the longest in the center and then gradually fell off towards the edges of the circle with a circular symmetry.
More interestingly, the amount by which this happened was identical to the light intensity
distribution for example of a light bulb at a ceiling in a dark room.
If you have a single light bulb hanging on the ceiling in a dark room, you'll see that
the light on the floor is brightest straight beneath the light bulb and then towards the
edges of the room it will just fall off gradually.
Okay, so that's almost like forensic evidence, then.
Absolutely.
In a court of law, you would have 100% success.
I mean, this is very straightforward, very simple, very real.
Boy, that's weird.
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Hasselhoff in the Netherlands.
Hello.
Hi, this is Golden in Houston on KTRH 740.
Texas, yes sir.
Yes.
The photos inside the crop circle with the time dilation effect, that seems to be... The camera effects seem to be because of the time dilation and the cameras or the watches digital No, it's both digital and mechanical, actually.
My watch was mechanical, actually.
only digital uh... stuff and cameras or uh...
uh... what of person uh...
no it's both digital and mechanical actually i a m yeah my watch was
mechanical actually uh... it was auto whining things you know you move your
wrist it's a recharges
It's mechanical.
But most of the time it's electronic gear that seems to act up, though.
Probably because it's most of the time people carry around electronic gear to make photographs and movies.
I've heard, for example, of batteries suddenly, completely, inexplicably being drained.
You've heard of that?
That's right.
Yes, it happened to me last summer.
In the same circle, the formation where this ninth circle appeared.
Really?
Yeah, my battery, and so did the battery of the news reporter who was there.
It's very strange, really.
Yeah, I don't know what to say.
It happens.
It's true.
Yeah.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Hasselhoff in the Netherlands.
Hello?
Hello there.
Oh, wait a minute.
I didn't press the button.
Now you're on the air.
I'm sorry.
Go ahead.
Good morning, Art.
Good morning, Professor Hasselhoff.
I do believe that there's a possibility That these might be microwave, like you touched on a while ago, frequencies from very high up with instrumentation that we haven't even imagined yet.
But the question is, do you believe that there's a possibility that these crop circles around the planet could possibly be a guidance system?
For the spaceships coming in from far away.
A guidance system, all right.
Well, that's another statement that I cannot prove, and I cannot refute.
There is an interesting side thought, though.
I don't know about America, but Holland is very crowded, and our woods are very much monitored.
And there are these forest guards, and they will just check all the trees in the woods, and sometimes they find a tree that is sick.
And they will paint a red cross on it.
So I can imagine a bug on this tree crawling over it and find this red cross and say, hey, whoa, this is huge, and this cannot be made by bugs.
This must be some sort of communication attempt.
Perhaps it's something like that, you know.
Well, now, there's an interesting piece of speculation in view of all the troubles that they've had in Great Britain lately with mad cow disease and so forth.
Oh, boy, yeah.
That'd be worth a big red X, eh?
I don't know, it's probably, yeah, it could be, it has been suggested many times.
It's sort of an indicator, this is happening here, sort of a language.
But then again, there are so many different shapes and patterns, and we know that some of them are made by man, but we never know which ones, because they are really never able to actually prove it.
That it's just a very noisy signal you're trying to interpret, and that makes it all much more difficult.
Indeed.
All right.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Professor Hasselhoff.
Hello.
Hello.
This is Dave from 630 Chet in Edmonton.
Edmonton, Alberta.
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir.
My question is, with the recent amount of crop circles that we had in England there, where people, I think Richard said that It was a response to our message that we sent in the 70's with a high amount of power.
The Arecibo message, yes.
Exactly.
Now, with the other person that was on him, a lot of people believed that it was a message sent back to us because of a few alterations to it.
Now my question is, it's not really a question, it's a feeling.
That if we sent a message, or we want to speak to a three year old, we speak to them in a certain way.
Now, with this message that we sent out, they responded, but they responded to us on the same level with the same thing.
Now, a lot of people say, well, why wasn't it that they'd be sent us an encyclopedia?
Well, it's like sending a computer to a bunch of chimpanzees in a zoo.
Listen, your point is very well taken.
The crop circles have not really been Yet deciphered to contain any specific message, and maybe they're not even supposed to.
Maybe they're supposed to just be appreciated and somehow esoterically understood rather than specifically understood.
But he raises a very good point.
It could be so far above us right now, Professor, that there is to be no understanding for a very long time about whatever these are.
Do you think that's true?
That might very well be possible.
Sometimes people say, well, if this were a communication attempt by highly advanced extraterrestrials, why does it take them so long?
I mean, why can't they make themselves clear a little bit sooner?
This has been going on for hundreds of years now.
So what's the point?
The answer, I think, is quite simple.
If there's a bird in a tree and you say, hey, birdie, tweet, tweet, tweet, you know, I mean, what do you think the bird thinks?
Well, if he tries to communicate, why doesn't he just Talk BERT language if you're so intelligent, you know.
And then again, these messages in the field, it is very well possible that it is indeed a sort of a response, but you're right, clearly the entity that did it understood the message that we tried to to broadcast and they understood the code and everything and so they were very well aware of our thoughts and I'll tell you I couldn't figure out the message when I saw this irresistible message and the binary numbers at the top and the only thing I could figure out was the little guy with the little person standing in the middle and I could figure out the solar system and the rest was just a big riddle.
Clearly the answer means that probably The entity that did it, humans or extraterrestrials, whatever, are very well aware of how we think, and they understand us completely much better than we understand the bird.
Wonderful answer.
Professor, we are out of time.
What a wonderful program.
What a wonderful opportunity to speak with you.
The deepening complexity of crop circles, scientific research, and urban legends, available through my website, Amazon.com.
Professor, thank you so much for being here.
Thank you very much.
It's been a pleasure, and I wish you a Merry Christmas, and a Merry Christmas to all the people that listen to the show.
And a Merry Christmas to the rest of America.
Good night, my friend.
Bye-bye.
Thank you.
Thank you.
From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
Ta-ta.
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