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Dec. 6, 2001 - Art Bell

02:46:22

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Near Death Experience - Pam Reynolds

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01:05:39

pam reynolds

55:12

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from December 6th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest.
		I've been to all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be across this great globe of ours, all 24 time zones considered.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM, and I don't know where to begin tonight.
unidentified		There is so much to talk to you about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess I'll begin by telling you that next hour, you know, we frequently have, because I guess we're also interested in what lies on the other side, we have guests on the program who have had near-death experiences.
		Tonight, for the first time, we're going to have a guest who really died.
		She really died.
		She had an embolism in her brain.
		She's Pam Reynolds.
		She had an embolism in her brain.
		And a group of very daring surgeons in Phoenix, Arizona brought her to what's known as stand still.
		And what happens is your body is cooled to 58 degrees Fahrenheit.
		The heart stops.
		Most of the blood is drained from the body.
		Brain waves cease.
		And in short, you are dead.
		And then they operate and take out the embolism.
		And Pam Reynolds was indeed dead.
		While in that state, if dead is a state, she encountered one of the most remarkable near-death experiences ever documented.
		Now, I think you don't call it near-death.
		I don't see how you can call it near-death.
		Not in this case.
		And so that should be pretty interesting, I would say, coming up next hour.
		Now, I'm going to go ahead and lead the news with this anyway.
		Well, no, first I've got an affiliate.
		I guess I better do things in some order, huh?
		We've got a brand new affiliate again tonight.
		It is WKCI in Waynesboro, Virginia.
		970 on the dial.
		It's a good spot on the dial.
		970.
		WKCI in Waynesboro, Virginia.
		I bid you good day, folks.
		The GM there is Chris Zimmerman.
		Hi, Chris.
		And the program director, Steve Kanup.
		Kanup.
		That's the way he said.
		Actually pronounced the K, I guess.
		Knap.
		So glad to have you on board.
		The ever-growing network just soaring in affiliates.
		Now, I guess I better do this.
		CNN is breaking news right now that Taliban soldiers are said to be giving up their weapons, giving it up.
		Now, these are early reports, and I caution you that you should treat these reports as such.
		It does look like Kandahar is about to fall.
		Unfortunately, there will be Taliban fighters all over the country who will not get the word.
		So just cross your fingers, everybody.
		I guess we might as well go ahead with the rest of the news news, and then I'll drop the bomb on you.
		Mail being processed.
		It looks like they've got the Fed.
		Mail being processed at a facility set up in a courtyard near the Federal Reserve's headquarters that was put there, you know, to test the mail, I'm afraid, has found one which has tested positive for anthrax.
		Officials said the positive reading was obtained for a batch of mail containing between 100 and 150 letters, and it had not yet been determined if any of the letters actually contained anthrax spores or whether there was some sort of cross-contamination.
		I wonder if the people who wrote these letters knew.
		There are one of two things going on here.
		Either the cross-contamination thing is something the authorities never figured on, or there's a lot more anthrax letters out there than one was originally led to believe.
		I don't know which it might be.
		Israeli warplanes bombed a police post in Gaza, keeping pressure on Yasser Arafat to arrest yet more.
		So many of the arrests that Arafat makes, you hear, they say arrests, and what they do is they give them, well, they put them under house arrest.
		You're going to have to stay in your house.
		No phone calls.
		And that's an Arafat arrest, by the way.
		We'll see.
		Arafat's going to have to really get going here.
		U.S. Marines went on alert late Thursday and fired mortars around their base in southern Afghanistan to repel what a spokesman said was nearly certainly an attempt by Taliban forces to probe their defenses.
		Well, they probed, all right.
		And now they're probably part of the sticks.
		The U.S. is not going to tolerate any arrangement that allows a Taliban leader, Mahalla Mohammed Omar, to remain free and live in dignity in Afghanistan.
	So we're going to just, we're saying it, we're going to do it.
	We're going to chase them down, all of them that we want.
	We're going to get them, and I'm not sure what we're going to do with them, but we're going to get them.
	Don't you wonder what the orders are?
	If they find Osama bin Laden, what are the real orders, do you think?
	A man opened fire today at the simulated wood factory where he worked, killing a co-worker and wounding several others before committing suicide, another head shaker.
	And now it only took them six months.
	Six months it took the mainstream press to break this.
	I've been keeping track of how long it would take for the mainstream press to finally break this story.
	Tonight they're breaking it.
	I sat straight up a little after 9 o'clock watching CNN headline news, and a headline came along that said something to the effect of incredible lost city found under the water, off Cuban waters, lost city found.
	So there it was.
	CNN is breaking the news.
	MSNBC is breaking the news.
	Reuters is, in fact, here's a Reuters story.
	Long one, too.
	Explorers using a miniature submarine to probe the seafloor off the coast of Cuba said on Thursday they had confirmed, underlined, confirmed the discovery of stone structures deep below the ocean surface that may have been built by an unknown human civilization thousands of years ago.
	Researchers with a Canadian exploration company say they filmed over the summer ruins of a possible submerged lost city off the Caribbean islands western tip.
	The researchers cautioned they did not fully understand the nature of their find and plan to return in January for more analysis.
	The explorers said they believed the mysterious structures discovered at the astounding depth of around 2,100 feet are laid out like an urban area.
	Could have been built at least 6,000 years ago.
	That would be, of course, 1,500 years earlier than the Great Giza Pyramids of Egypt, but they don't really know how old it is.
	Old, old.
	And tonight, all of these networks are breaking this news.
	And tomorrow, I imagine it will spread and the big networks will pick it up and NBC and CBS and ABC will all be running the news.
	So count them, folks.
	The mainstream press began the break on this news tonight, and that would be just about six months after we broke it here.
	Now, speaking of possible hits, I'm sent the following hiart.
	Didn't Ed Dames talk about a fungus?
	Wasn't there something about a fungus spreading, killing lots of trees and other plants?
	Well, if you read the whole article, probably the hair will stand up on the back of your neck as it did mine.
	Note the following.
	Unknown origin.
	The oak disease is caused by a recently named fungal organism called, and I'll spell it for you, P-H-Y-T-O-P-H-T-H-O-R-A.
	R-A-M-O-R-U-M.
	It also attacks a dozen other tree and plant species, including rhododendron, huckleberry, honeysuckle, coffeeberry, manzanita, buckeye, big-leaf maple, bay laurel, evergreen, and madrone.
	Preliminary tests on the disease indicate that, get this folks, it enters through the bark of plants and trees rather than the roots, as many species do, and travels in, are you ready, travels in raindrops.
	And my facts are continues, and besides other eastern species of oak, who knows what else it kills?
unidentified		Eek.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you are having Ed Dames on your show very soon.
		Yes, indeed.
		Perhaps he can elucidate.
		I'm sure he can.
		He'll be on the program this coming Monday.
		So, there you have it.
		We've got open lines this hour.
		We've got a lady who died, Pam Reynolds, next hour.
		And the balance of this hour into open lines.
unidentified		What a night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that ought to do it.
		That ought to be enough for you to chew on to begin with for the balance of this hour.
		And then Pam Reynolds next hour.
		Boy, I'm looking forward to that.
		Not just close to death.
		Death itself.
		Where was she?
		In fact, you may want to comment on that now.
		I mean, when somebody has no blood, no heartbeat, no brain waves, they're dead.
		Goodbye, gone, dead.
		58 degrees, way below room temperature.
		Dead, dead, dead.
unidentified		Where did she go?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where did she go?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on air.
unidentified		Hello.
		All right, Phil, good evening.
		How are you, sir?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm okay, sir, and you're in a truck somewhere.
unidentified		I'm in a big truck traveling through Kentucky.
		How are you?
		Let me turn that TV radio off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I've got to tell you, God bless you guys.
		You guys have saved me hours on the road.
		You know, I drive a big 37-foot RV from time to time, and you guys have saved my butt and kept me out of hours of traffic.
unidentified		Well, we just got to be doing the best we can.
		I got a question for you.
		You know, we can talk about what are we going to do if we catch some of the lights.
		That's right.
		Obviously, this gumbucker deserves to die, but if we kill him, does that make him a martyr?
		But what if the Number of Ben Leaders gets him?
		What do you think?
		Would the result be the same?
		Would he still be considered a murderer if they troubled around the hills against them with his head on a stick?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You raise a very interesting point, and maybe that's exactly the way we're going to handle it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe you're going to kind of, you know, wink and turn around and say Northern Alliance.
unidentified		Here you go.
		I sure hope so.
		Either one way or the other, I just think that maybe that boy should just become a grain of sand.
		Buried underneath the grain of sand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here, here.
		Thank you very much and take care.
		Yeah, he's right, you know.
		That might really solve the whole problem because we're damned if we do and damned if we don't.
		You know, like kill him.
		We're damned if we kill him and we're damned if we don't.
		Either way, we've got trouble.
		However, as he points out, if the Northern Alliance does the job, well, then that really does change things, doesn't it?
		Killed by another Afghani.
unidentified		Hmm.
unidentified		Hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, who's this, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm the only one here, sir.
		It's the only possibility.
		Turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		All righty.
unidentified		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		Yeah, I'm in on the West Coast, SFO country.
		Okay.
		Michael.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bay Area.
		Okay, Mike.
		Bay Area.
unidentified		Yeah, great show last night.
unidentified		Dan Aykroyd.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		And uh Yeah, it was fun.
		You've had a lot of great guests.
unidentified		And you guys are uh seems like you're coming to the same conclusions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Which uh well that's not a magical thing, sir.
		That's just, you know, people who are looking at the kinds of things we do here are coming to the same conclusions because the same evidence trail is being followed.
		There you are.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm behind it all the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're kind of losing your cell connection a little bit.
unidentified		Oh, I'm sorry about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cell.
unidentified		I'm in my RV.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're in an RV.
		Might I suggest to you, get a hold of the Secretary Company and get one of the Wilson antennas.
		The Wilson cell antennas.
		I'm telling you, man, it's unbelievable.
		You know, you'll have like no lights at all, and you plug in this cell antenna to the bottom of your cell phone, you know, an external one, and it goes right up to four lights.
		It's unbelievable.
unidentified		Yeah, I've been meaning to do that, and I guess I'm shopping around.
unidentified		Thanks for the, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I appreciate the calls.
		You're kind of breaking up there.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's an amazing antenna, and it makes all the difference between being, you know, being heard and being heard really well.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		How are you doing, Art Bill?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing okay, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Memphis, Tennessee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Memphis.
		Okay.
		What can I do for you?
unidentified		Well, I want to tell you something.
		Y'all be talking about aliens all the time.
		Well, this is what I want to tell you.
		You ever heard about the North Pole?
		It's supposed to be this paradise within all that ice up there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A paradise under the ice?
unidentified		No, it's not under the ice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, have I heard it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you mean a little strange area at the North Pole where there's like an oasis, that kind of thing?
unidentified		Yeah, like a.
unidentified		Yeah, you heard of that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've heard about it.
		I don't know if it's myth.
		Sounds like it would be myth because I don't know how you would have such a different climate in just one little spot at the pole, near the pole.
unidentified		Well, a long time ago with the I'm trying to think what they call it, the North Wind, the South Wind, something like that.
unidentified		Well, I'm telling you, when the North Wind, or when one of those winds hit down in the middle of the earth, one of the stars from outer space fell down in the middle of the Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, well, I don't know about that.
		I can imagine the following.
		That I suppose there could be, you know, as we have underground hot springs, right?
		And we have a volcanic activity that occurs under the ground, maybe even there at the pole.
		And I suppose that one time long ago, somebody might have found a small subtropical or almost tropical area within the area of the pole that was receiving its virtual immediate climate from some sort of ground heat.
		That's interesting.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi, this is Etson, E-D-S-O-N, Etson.
		And I'm in a place called Southern California, which is just outside of Los Angeles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've heard of that.
unidentified		Yeah, well, it's next to Tahunga, which is UFO area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I just saw something strange the other day, and it might be related to UFOs.
		I hope it is.
		I hope it doesn't have anything to do with the anthrax.
		But it was a nice clear day, and there was one cloud in the sky over the mountains.
		And I watched it, and then these two strange aircraft flew by.
		They were real, they're almost enamel-like, you know, shiny white.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And they had a red stripe on their tail on a big high.
		They looked like crop dusters, so that's what worried me.
		And this cloud just disintegrated right in front of my face.
		It must have been 300 feet long.
		And this black stuff came out of it, just like black stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Black.
		Oh, wait a minute.
		Black stuff came out of the disintegrating cloud?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Definitely bad.
unidentified		definitely bad, and I haven't, you know, I've...
		Sure, it looked like it, yeah, on the mountaintop.
		So I'm kind of worried.
		I look for UFOs all the time because this is an area where you're looking for UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess in a way there could have been unidentified objects as you described, but they did sound like fairly conventional aircraft just with strange markings.
		But definitely clouds turning black and then falling down.
		That's definitely a new one.
unidentified		Let me ask something else.
unidentified		I haven't heard about this, and I know he wasn't very popular with him, but what do you think about the death of William Cooper, Bill Cooper?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think he's dead.
		I think that what's to think, you know, as you know, I was never a big fan of Bill Cooper, so I would not want to speak ill of the dead, and I shall not.
		I think he shot at, what, a deputy sheriff or something?
		And I hit him in the head, and they shot back and killed Bill Cooper, and that's the way I heard the story.
unidentified		So what can I say?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll say that, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from December 6th, 2001.
		For so long.
		For so long.
		Listen to the stranger stories, wondering where it all went wrong for so long.
		For so long.
		Hold on, Hold on, hold on to what you got.
		Hold on, hold on, hold on to what you got.
		I'm dreaming of a new tomorrow.
		I'm dreaming of a new tomorrow.
		Out of the street, I'm dumb into a man.
		If you don't like the club of mine, I'll tell you.
		You shouldn't worry that that ain't no crime.
		And if you get it wrong, you'll get it right and then you need direction, you need a name when you stand at the crossroads.
		We have a damn crowd.
		After a while, you get to recognize the nine.
		So if you get it wrong, you can.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from December 6th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is, and I am so pleased to see the Cuban story after about half a year finally breaking in the mainstream press.
		Check it out yourself.
		I think Keith is beginning to get a lot of the links up from the various news services that I told you about.
		And, you know, I wonder, I really wonder how this is going to, I mean, I know all of you are listeners here, so you've known about this for a long time, but how do you think this is going to settle in this news on the general public?
		That's a really important question.
		How do you think the rest of the world is going to handle this news?
		That what we thought we knew about how it all began, well, that might just not be the way it all began.
		It's going to be fascinating, fascinating to follow.
		Now, tomorrow night is Friday night, Saturday.
		That's Open Lines.
		Now, I am interested always in special lines.
		You know, I have a propensity for opening a special line every now and then for this or that.
		And tomorrow night, I might be inclined to do that if one of you makes a really good suggestion about the kind of line to open.
		Not sure what kind of mood I'm in.
		But there ought to be an interesting line to open, I would think, tomorrow night, a special line.
		So if you have a suggestion about a special line you would particularly enjoy.
		I can think of so many.
		Make it to me in email at artbell.com, or artbell, at mindspring.com.
		Artbell at mindspring.com.
		Maybe I will select one of the entries and we will have some sort of special line or just open line smart night.
		I don't know.
		Anyway, I do enjoy the open line segments as we have right now.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Well, hi there, Art.
		This is Ben in the District of Columbia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		D.C., huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome.
unidentified		Well, thank you.
		Thank you.
		I think we got as hot a weather here as you have out there in the desert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll bet it's even hotter.
		What is your present temperature, as a matter of curiosity?
		It's what?
		Let's see.
		It's still in the limbs.
unidentified		It got up to about almost 73 degrees today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It only made it to the 50s here near Death Valley, and presently, as I look up, it's 33.8 degrees.
unidentified		Oh, my goodness.
		Well, we're a lot hotter than you are anyway.
		Listen, I've heard you talk about a lot of subjects over the past, I guess I've been listening for a year or a year and a half.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		But one of the things I've never heard you talk about is the evil eye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, I have.
unidentified		Oh, you have?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, not only have I talked.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To me, the evil eye is the red glowing evil eye.
unidentified		No, no, no.
		This is what people in Turkey and Greece, in that part of the world, they believe in.
		It's kind of the opposite of a miracle.
		Where you can put a hoax on somebody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's more like a curse, actually.
unidentified		Well, that's what it is.
		And they even wear talisman over there, and they're a little eye, and they're supposed to ward off the evil eye, or to have something to do with that.
		But I've just never heard anybody talk about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's just because we call it something else here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here, we have gypsies and others who can place a curse on you.
unidentified		Well, I think it's kind of an interesting subject, and I can't contribute to it.
		I really don't know anything about it.
		I've heard a lot about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have guests like Dr. Evelyn Pagwini, and she'll tell you about curses.
		She'll sure tell you about curses.
		We'll have her on again.
		We've done shows with her on this subject.
		It's curses.
		Same deal.
		Curses.
unidentified		Well, yes, I guess it is, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's magic.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		But anyway, I thought it would contribute something toward this, but if you've had it on already, well...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a fine subject.
		It's just fine.
		It's called the evil eye there.
unidentified		Well, it's a curse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Another way of putting a curse on you.
		But we also did something on just evil eyes.
		Remember that?
		And I had people submit evil eyes.
		And they submitted evil, glowing, red eyes.
		Oh, we've got some real doozies.
		Had them up on the website.
		Probably still there.
		If you go up there under search and put evil eye, wait until you see what you see.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Good morning, Mr. Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		This is Brandy.
unidentified		I'm in East Tennessee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome.
unidentified		Where it's much warmer than where you are as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everywhere where it should be cold, it's warmer than it is here.
unidentified		There's usually snow up there by now.
unidentified		On the mountains, there's nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Our weather is changing, huh?
unidentified		It's bizarre.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		I don't like it.
		The reason why I Called you.
		I was having fits.
		I saw the neatest program that went off just before your show came on on PLC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right?
unidentified		And it was called Atlantis in the Andes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the Andes, huh?
unidentified		Well, they had this guy, and he wrote a book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess that could be called Atlantis Risen.
unidentified		Well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah.
unidentified		Well, the way that they had it, I'm kind of, I'm going to have to buy this man's book.
		It's on my Christmas list now.
		If anybody's listening, it's on my Christmas list.
		But he's a cartographer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And he used his knowledge and maps and everything to kind of correlate what would fit with the description of Atlantis, you know, and he decided on he went with the plane, the rectangular plane that is referred to, the big rectangular plane, but it's higher than the sea level, and then there's mountains on the other end of that.
		And he's putting that in Bolivia.
		And this was what really got me was the name Atlantis, he's broken it down into two Native American words.
		One is Mayan, and I didn't catch the other one.
		But one is atoll, which is water, and antis, which is copper.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought atoll was island.
unidentified		No, atoll, A-T-L.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, oh, oh.
unidentified		Not atoll.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Atoll.
unidentified		And another thing that really led him over to South America was the reference to or-calcum, which is a particular alloy, a natural alloy of gold, tin, and copper, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And the only place where that is is in South America.
		And he went through all this stuff, and they have...
		Right, right.
		But there's a city called Tiwanako that looks just amazing, and they've only excavated like 3.5% of it.
		And they found in it things that to fasten blocks of stone together made of copper and nickel alloy, to make that you have to have temperatures of 3,500 degrees.
		And we couldn't do that until the 1930s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, to be sure.
		Oh, listen.
		There were civilizations here before.
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They had technology that we have not yet relearned.
unidentified		Absolutely.
unidentified		Oh, this was an amazing program, and I'm going to buy this book, and I think that you should think about having this gentleman on your program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, get me some contact info, and I'll see what I can do.
		Happy to.
		I have this feeling that these finds now are going to begin popping up all over the world.
		And this thing off Cuba is so significant and so big that the mainstream science world is not going to be able to ignore it.
		And so they're going to begin heaving and rithing and having a big problem.
		But in the end, they'll make it.
		The science world is going to have the hardest time with this.
		Believe it or not, all of you are going to have a much easier time than they will.
		Because their little paradigms, their papers, their funding all depend on basically what they have written about what they believe to be true.
		And if it's not true, then all of that other stuff, that important stuff to them, is threatened.
		So they're not going to have an easy time of this.
		The average person will do pretty well, I think.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		This is Dan talking from 580 a.m., Augusta, Georgia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, welcome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome.
unidentified		How are you doing this evening?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just Heinzer.
unidentified		It was not a, this could be called a near-death experience.
		A friend of mine was thrown from a car with head injuries, etc.
		And we took her to the hospital.
		They had said she was stable, and they checked her out and everything, and they had her in just a room, like a, they'd already checked her into a room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		While she was in there, she died.
		The nurse said they had to wheel her down the hallway, which was, I forget how many feet, to another room where they were going to resuscitate her.
		It was where the other equipment was.
		And when they did, they resuscitated her, and she said, I was above my body the whole time.
		And they said, well, we don't believe that.
		She said, I'll name 27 different instances that happened in that hallway, not conversations, but things that happened while I was dead.
		And she did, and to this day, they just said, we don't understand and wrote it off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
unidentified		But, I mean, I asked her, did she see anything?
		She said, no, I was just there above my body.
		I knew everything that went on around me.
		She said, I saw incidents in other rooms even.
		Rooms and they even checked on it.
		They said, yeah, that's what happened.
		They put this in this drawer and this, whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are thousands, tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of stories like that.
		The only, you know who I've got coming on, right, at the top of the ark.
		Right.
		I've had a lot of NDEs, like the one you're describing, you know, where you stop breathing or even the heart stops, but where you are really dead, dead, dead, brain waves cease.
		Now, most neurologists, I think, use brain waves as a measure of, you know, the final wisps of life, right?
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when all that's gone and all the blood's out of your body and your heart stop and you're at 58 degrees, you are really dead.
unidentified		Can I answer one question for you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, if you can tell me where she was.
unidentified		No, I was going to tell you a question.
unidentified		The answer of yours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		You talked one day about the premonition you had when somebody hit your car.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		I did your birthday one day.
		I heard parts of it, you conversing with somebody when your birthday was.
		And I remember two numbers that you have in numerology is a seven and an eight.
		Your seven, what makes you sensitive?
		Sevens are psychic.
		You have a psychic ability.
		You are sensitive to all mankind and your surroundings.
		The only thing that gets in the way is your eight trying to keep your money straight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I missed that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What gets in the way?
unidentified		Your eight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you mean my number eight gets in the way.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		You have three numbers for the three parts of your personality, which you were born with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have actually never much, you know, this really goes against a lot of grains.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've never much given a damn for money.
unidentified		No, no, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not given a damn.
		No, I'm saying that's my attitude about money.
		It's really nice that it comes, but I'd never organized it.
unidentified		Organizing it, running it through your head.
		You know, do we have this, that?
		What it is, is they're just organized people as far as not that they give a damn about it, like having lots of it, but I'm talking about just, you know, keeping it straight and everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, thank you.
		I'm not even good at that, really.
		You know, my wife is the financial gatekeeper, and for me, it's like, hey, do we have enough?
		Oh, cool.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's how much I care about money.
		Like, do we have enough?
		We're not concerned, are we?
		Things are okay.
		We have enough.
		Okay.
		And I don't want to know more than that.
		Not really.
		That's always been, as long as there's enough, I've always wondered about people who go after money as the goal.
		I mean, their goal is to collect money, to get money.
		It seems so damn boring.
		I mean, you die, and what do you have?
		You have just money left.
		I mean, I suppose to go to relatives or whatever.
		But you just have lots of money left.
		You didn't spend it helping people or enjoying life or pursuing some higher goal or something.
		Otherwise, just to collect money for the sake of collecting money is just ludicrous to me.
		But there are many, many people I understand who do that, and it's their thing, I guess.
		West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		How you doing?
		Okay.
		This is Eric calling from Los Angeles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And, man, I sure know a lot of people like those that you've just described here in L.A. Yeah, L.A. would be a capital of seekers old money.
		You sure can't take it with you.
		Anyway, I'll get to my point.
		I, like you, prior to September 11th, had some very interesting things happen to me.
		And I remember you talking about that, about certain feelings that you had.
		And, you know, I tend to be a very rational, level-headed person.
		I have a pretty positive attitude most of the time.
		And just from like August, mid-August until September 11th, I just, I couldn't break out of this funk that I was in.
		And that sort of thing just does not happen to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not that special.
		You're not that special.
		I think that the whole thing at Princeton proves it.
		There's some sort of mass understanding.
		Yeah, for two weeks before it, I kept saying every night, I'm telling you, man, something big is coming.
		I can feel it.
		I just feel this pending doom.
		And I kept saying it, and boom, there it was.
		That's not to say I predicted it.
		I just felt a mass, whatever it was we all felt.
unidentified		Yeah, exactly.
		And I felt the same thing.
		And here's why I'm calling.
		I'm starting to freak out again, and I'm starting to feel this again.
		And I'm, you know, here's the thing.
		What I've noticed lately is, you know, for the last month or since September 11th, we've had this great upspring of instant patriotism and people flying flags and being nice to each other on the surface.
		But underneath, I think people, you know, out on the street, people are really on edge, really cranky.
		I hear horns honking a whole lot more than I used to.
		And, you know, the flags are starting to go away, and I think we're starting to return to normal.
		And I'm just waiting for these people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're seeing shorter tempers.
unidentified		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, me too.
unidentified		Absolutely.
		But my concern, and I think they're waiting for us to get back to normal and become totally complacent.
		Exactly.
		And then they're going to hit us again.
		And I just, I hope to God we can get it together before that happens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I do think a lot of people are concluding that, you know, we're kicking Taliban ass right now and it'll be over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
unidentified		I don't think the Taliban is our problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is a worldwide organization.
unidentified		Absolutely, absolutely.
		And about Osama bin Laden, I think I don't want to see him executed because he gets off too easy that way.
		I would like to see, and I know, you know, we obviously don't want to make him into a martyr.
		We don't want to, certainly don't want to turn him into a political prisoner where people can take hostages and do things like that and demand his release.
		But there's got to be some.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I don't think we want to go for the pig juice or the turning him into a woman thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot going around right now.
unidentified		Yeah.
		But I just think if he gets, it's like, you know, a lot of these people on death row, you know, if they deserve to be there, once they're gone, their suffering is over.
		But the suffering that they've created lives on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe.
		We've had a lot of debate about that.
		I had a guest on last night who, and no, the night before, who was saying that basically, if you're a bad person in life, and this really got to me, you continue to be a bad person in death.
		In other words, you are a ghost with criminal attitude, and you attack people and do that kind of thing in the afterlife.
unidentified		That certainly makes a lot of sense to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it doesn't seem right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm looking for punishment over there, not a continuation of evil ways.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
		Well, my fear, you know, he's just the head of the serpent.
		That's all he is.
		And if we chop that head off, another one will sprout in its place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Appreciate your call, sir.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Art.
		Take care.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, my name's Russell.
		I live in Homo.
		Homo.
		And I'm an inspiring writer, and I channel spiritual information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You channel it, huh?
unidentified		I channel it from the land that I live on, the sacred ground here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's the land that talks to you?
unidentified		It's the land that communicates with me when I'm in a certain state.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what does the land typically tell you?
unidentified		It tells me stories, and that's why I'm an author now.
unidentified		It's over the past 10 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But what kind of stories?
unidentified		History stories, what their life was like, and what first contact was like here in San Diego.
		And I want to thank you for inspiring the main character of the book.
		He is a talk radio show host, and that enables him to present Many different ideas at the same time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And it's a beautiful story.
unidentified		It's a story that needs to be told.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is your talk host's name?
unidentified		His name is Zane Emerson Waldo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Zane Emerson Waldo?
unidentified		Emerson Waldo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		The name of the novel is The Sage Harvester.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, okay, you got your plug-in.
		Oh, the stories that dirt can tell.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, Art Bell.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm okay, sir.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		This is Damien in Pomona, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Damien.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Evil name.
unidentified		Yeah, actually, I've made a joke about it.
unidentified		If I ever get a tattoo, I know where it's going to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't want to know.
unidentified		No, I mean, underneath my hairline.
unidentified		Oh, I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
unidentified		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you know, that would be pretty cool.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you could show that to people and they'd back off.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Anyway, to get to the point, because I know that we're getting close to the break.
		We are.
		Okay.
		Well, first off, I wanted to ask you about Stephen Greer.
		And I remember that at one point someone called up recently and he said that he was asking when you were going to have him back on the show.
		And your response was something like that he ran into some kind of wall or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
		No, no, no, no.
		No, Stephen Greer has been on tour, and I will surely have him on again soon.
		I'm sure.
		Generally, when Stephen has something he wants to say, he contacts me.
		That's the way it works.
		I don't have him on just to have him on.
		When Stephen Greer comes on, sir, he's usually got big-time breaking news, and so that's what generally causes me to say, let's do a show with Stephen Greer.
		I'm Art Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		Here's that evil eye look.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from December 6th, 2001.
		So I came into you, sweet lady.
		And this is in your mystic cocoa.
		Crystal ball on the table.
		Show them up into the past.
		Same cat with them.
		Thank you.
		And in the brink time of heat, when the tree ground beneath, and the ash and look at the bird.
		You're listening to Art Bells somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from December 6th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are some rides you might not wish to take, like the one Pam Reynolds took.
		Pam Reynolds is coming up in a moment.
		She's a practicing musician, wife, and mother of three, and a member of a very prominent music publishing family.
		In 1991, she underwent one of the most fantastic surgical procedures ever performed.
		Dr. Robert F. Spetzler, director of the Barrow Institute for Neurology in Phoenix, Arizona, and his team of daring surgeons, clipped an aneurysm in her brain by a process known as, in quotes, stand still.
		Her body was cooled to 58 degrees Fahrenheit, her heart stopped, most of her blood drained from her body.
		In short, Pam Reynolds was dead.
		While in this state, she encountered one of the most remarkable near-death experiences ever documented.
		Or was it a death experience, actually?
		Ten years later, hers remains the most scientifically documented case on record.
		48 Hours did a story on her.
		You may have seen that.
		48 Hours, though, an in-depth magazine show would never in the world have the sort of time that we have to cover a story of this magnitude.
		So coming up, that's exactly what we'll do.
		And now, here is Pam Reynolds.
		Hi, Pam.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you actually in Atlanta, Georgia?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're in Atlanta.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can hear the Atlanta in you.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Can't take the country out of the girl.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you've got a little bit of a cold, you told me.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, sorry to hear that.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		But we'll be okay.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		We'll get through it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, after what you've been through.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Really, it's a little thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		When, I don't even know where to begin here.
		I guess it would be appropriate to ask you how you discovered that you had an, I mean, how do you know that you have an aneurysm in your brain?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was very lucky.
		Most people don't.
		They go about their lives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they just die.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		It just explodes on them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An aneurysm, we should tell people who might not know, is what is an aneurysm?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a ballooning of the vein or artery where the wall of the artery becomes very thin, like the wall on a tire.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And it'll bubble out and eventually explode, of course, flooding the vital organ with blood, and that's certain death.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you virtually die instantly almost, I think.
		Exactly.
		So somehow, in your case, they discovered you had this.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		How?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, I had excruciating headaches for about 10 years and was first diagnosed with migraine syndrome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		10 years.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		10 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And finally, I began to lose the ability to speak and comprehend language, which indicates immediately something's wrong with the brain.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		My physician had an angiogram ordered, and lo and behold, on that very same day, we found it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did he break that news to you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, telling somebody they've got an aneurysm in their brain cannot be an easy cure for any doctor.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		No, especially this one.
		This was my physician that I grew up with.
		Not only was mine an aneurysm, but mine was a giant basilar tip aneurysm, which is in the artery, the main artery in the brain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, brother.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it would be a big bang.
		Oh, yeah.
		So, I mean, really, you sat down.
		No doubt he did want an MRI or something?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, back then MRIs were not the thing.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		We had a CAT scan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		CAT scan, okay.
		He did a CAT scan.
		He got the results, and he sat you down.
		And how did he tell you this?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, really, he didn't sit me down.
		He ordered me back into the office.
		And when I returned to his office, it was virtually vacated, but for him and a couple of the nurses I'd also grown up with.
		And he hugged me first and had a lot of trouble talking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've got a good doctor.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I had a fabulous physician.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Still do he's a wonderful man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so anyway, he hugged you.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		He hugged me in a very broken tone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to know it's bad news when your doctor hugs you first out.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		Well, I knew by the look on his face that it wasn't good news.
		It was just instantaneous.
		And he told me that this was very serious.
		Of course, I had no idea what an aneurysm was.
		And this was in July of 1991.
		And by August, I was at Barrow Institute having it removed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, the aneurysm, you said you had headaches, terrible headaches for a decade, 10 years.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that must mean I've never heard of such a, I mean, what do I know about aneurysms?
		But that's awfully slow.
		It must have been just slowly getting bigger and bigger and bigger and making your symptoms more severe.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And we weren't sure that the aneurysm caused the pain until the aneurysm had been clipped and the pain disappeared.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		there was still a good possibility that it was migraine pain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I guess he...
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Virtually zero.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Zero?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Mm-hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you get the better get your affairs in order of speech?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I got in the car, I left the last specialist, and my husband and I got in the car and went immediately to our attorney's office for the filing of my last will and testament.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		and the dispensation of our three children who were of course my eldest was twelve and my baby was seven not quite eight how did you face uh...
		I think I was in a state of shock, and thank God for shock, because in my case, it allowed me to very easily go through the motions of getting things taken care of.
		And being a mother, I wasn't so concerned with myself as I was for my children.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old were your children at the time?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		My baby was seven.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And my oldest child had just turned 12.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		So they were pretty small.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Pretty small.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And to tell them.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, absolutely.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I had no idea how to tell my children.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you sit them all down together and tell them?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, brother.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I explained to them that I would be making a journey, and they could not go this time, but I would see them.
		And no matter what happened, even though I couldn't physically be here, I would always be here with them emotionally.
		They couldn't see me, but I could see them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I believed that?
		I did, too.
		I still do.
		I still believe it.
		I still believe it.
		At any rate, it must have been rough.
		I mean, to lay that on your children, did they handle it?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Not very well.
		Naturally, they became very clingy.
		My oldest son and my middle daughter were convinced that I was like a cat with nine lives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		My middle daughter told me, well, Mom, if you die, you'll be back, right?
		Like a cat.
		And I think, the truth be told, I don't think they accepted it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How about your husband?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my husband was devastated.
		There was no talking to him, no dealing with him.
		He just walked around in circles and had no earthly idea what to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's unimaginable.
		The way my wife and I are, as close as we are, it's unimaginable to lose her.
		So to have sort of notification that you're about to, that's just too much.
		So did your personal doctor give you any, well, listen, you've got, we're going to estimate you've got weeks or months or a year to live, or what did he tell you?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, the aneurysm had already begun to rupture.
		We had bleeding in the brain, which was causing the loss of speech and the inability to comprehend language.
		And he told me in case of such as these, I would be lucky to see a month.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lucky for a month.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		But any attempt to go in and surgically clip the aneurysm would be certain death.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And his advice to me was to take what I had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take your time.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And thank God for it.
		And let things happen as they happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Obviously, you didn't stop there.
		Now, how did you get on to this Dr. Spetzler and the Barrow Institute?
		I mean, you must have been in the middle of knowing it was over and yet still trying to reach out for anything.
		How did you get on to this?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, we got real blessed at that point in time.
		My mother was a physician's assistant for many years until she retired, and many of my dearest friends are physicians and have been all of my life.
		And I heard this incredible story about a doctor who was performing this daring surgery whereby they literally put the body in a state of stasis, draining all the blood, taking the temperature down to 58 degrees Fahrenheit, stopping the heart, no brain waves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No brain waves.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		No brain waves.
		And in that state of stasis, the aneurysm shrinks.
		No blood in the brain, no blood in the aneurysm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, sure, no blood, nothing in the aneurysm, so it just shrinks, shrivels right up.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		So that enables him to then go in safely with no pressure on the brain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was your age then?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I was 35 years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God, 35.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And a very young 35.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		So it was tough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you heard about this.
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And did what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Made a call?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we immediately contacted Barrow Institute and sent our records out, and I was found to be an extremely good candidate for the surgery because in every other way I was perfectly healthy and very strong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And young?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I would think you would be a very good candidate.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how much of a disgrace They invited you out, said, yeah, you're a candidate.
		Come on out.
		We want to see you.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I went in to see Dr. Spetzler on a Wednesday and had surgery on a Thursday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy mackerel.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And I didn't have a very good comprehension of what they were going to do to me.
		I knew the heart would stop.
		But in terms of the draining of the blood, the cooling of the body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He didn't lay all that out?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, he may have, but I really didn't comprehend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe you didn't exactly want to hear that either.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I think that's a very good way to put it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did he tell you about the risks that you were advocating?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, on a personal level, he promised he'd get me back.
		He did.
		And I believed him wholeheartedly.
		This man has a very, very strong ability to win confidence.
		He himself is a very confident person.
		you know as a as a present with as we consider our heads and our brains you know where in your brain was this it was in the circle of willis a place where my physician tells me that a very few short years ago no one dared to go because Is that toward the central part of your brain?
		Right in the middle of the brain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the middle of the brain.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		So if it went, all my functions went with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Always.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		very dangerous procedure and dr. Spetzler said that he only did this and as a last-ditch effort to save a life because the Not very many.
		I was pretty early in the list.
		This was back in 1991.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		But you know, it's funny what we'll do when we have no choice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there was the other option, but that's no option, really.
		Exactly.
		And nevertheless, though, I mean, you're balancing the possibility of another month of life against the possibility of death on the operating table, and I'm sure you and your husband talked that one over.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		You know, really, we didn't spend a lot of time with that because with the surgical procedure, we felt like we had an opportunity to live out the entire lifetime.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		So we didn't really look at it as another month of life or death on the table.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No decision to make.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were just going to go for it.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right, exactly.
		But again, Dr. Spetzler is a very, he's downright inspirational in his personal discipline.
		And I've got a great story about what really made me believe that he could do this job.
		Let's hear it.
		Dr. Spetzler is a classical musician.
		Right away, I related to him.
		I understood him.
		And I heard music laughing down the hall as I sat in the waiting room.
		And I asked one of his fellows a live recording.
		And he said, no, that's Dr. Spetzler.
		He plays to keep his hands loose and to stay in shape.
		And the dynamics and the sense of touch was just absolutely incredible.
		And as a trained musician, growing up in it all of my life, I knew that any hands could do it, those could.
		Those hands were so controlled, and the dynamics were incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and he was personally very compelling.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was he one of the pioneers to do this kind of operation?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I believe he is the pioneer to do this kind of operation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		THE PINER?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess if you're going to do something like this, you'd like to be with the one who knows the most about it.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be good, yes.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And imagine the nerve, the sheer nerve it would take to put a body through that process.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Every time he does it, he lays himself on the line 100%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I suppose, I bet you had to sign a lot of releases, huh?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		A pretty good many, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, when you went down there to talk to him, was your expectation that you were going to have this operation right away, or did you just think you were going to go see him and maybe have some tests and that sort of thing, and then come home and then maybe come back and have the operation?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it was like the next day.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		No, I knew that I was in a very precarious situation and that a matter of 24 hours could mean life or death for me.
		So immediately, as soon as he could get me in, he did that.
		And I knew I had no doubt in my mind that I would be put in immediately.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was the last period of time before the anesthetic hit you that you spent with your husband?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was that like?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, they came into the hall to visit with me for a moment before they wheeled me into the OR, and it was just hugs and kisses and see you on the other side.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And that was pretty much it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The other side of the operation or the other side?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		The other side of the operation.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Another peculiar thing about this was many members of my family were with me, and no one had any doubt in their mind that everything would be fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, I'm going to ask a lot of questions through this, and if at any time you don't want to, if it's too personal, you can tell me to go climb a tree, okay?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, guess what?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I'm good at that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
		Good, because I just, you know, what you went through is so incredible that I really want to fully understand it.
		And I can only do that by, I guess, understanding the mood.
		So you went, I understand it's really important that somebody go into an operation like this with a lot of confidence, a lot of hope, a lot of, you know, good feelings and not negativity.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		In fact, I promised Dr. Spetzfler that I would work with him 100% and that if he'd just make sure and get the body back, I do the rest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does he also believe in that, that a positive attitude is really important for a surgical positive result?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he does.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		He certainly does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that was it.
		They rolled you in, and even though you didn't completely understand what they were going to do, you did at least understand your heart was going to come to a stop.
		Right.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		You promised me that that would be a temporary situation.
		You promised me you'd get me back.
		And I believed him.
		I believed him.
		He believed.
		I believed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But still, he didn't give you the downside risk.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He didn't tell you anything at all about the possibility.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		You know, when we go into the hospital for a tonsillectomy, one of the things that is on your release form is death.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a possibility of death.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Certainly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, yeah, I want to follow up on this.
		Hold on, we're at the bottom of the hour already.
		My guest is a remarkable woman, Pam Reynolds.
		And she didn't get near death.
		She died.
		I'm Art Bell.
		We've got quite a story to hear.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from December 6, 2001.
		She's trying it hard to recreate, but yet to be created.
		Once in her life, she musters a smile for his nostalgic tear.
		Never coming near what he wanted to say.
		Or did you realize he never really was lies?
		He never made her lie as she rides through her following.
		Everybody else will surely know.
		Until the wind, the sun of the rain, come on, baby, oh.
		Baby, take my hand on you.
		You'll be able to fly.
		Living up your land.
		Living up your land.
		Thank you.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bells Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired December 6th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we've got Pam Reynolds, who died.
		There's no other way to put this.
		If your brain waves have stopped, the measurement most neurologists use for death, you're gone.
		Heart stopped, blood out of your body.
		That's it.
		You're dead for a period of time.
		Body temperature lowered down to, as Rush would say, way down below room temperature.
		What a procedure.
		And we've got it right here tonight.
		more coming up Once again, from Atlanta, Georgia, here is Pam Reynolds.
		Pam, welcome back.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Mark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, again, you know, we're on this risk thing, and even though he gave you great amounts of confidence, and I understand why he would want to do that and why it would be good for you, nevertheless, at some point he had a responsibility, I think, to, you know, to explain to you that there was a pretty serious risk.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he did.
		This is not something that you would perform on a daily basis for any old aneurysm.
		This is absolutely a last-ditch effort to save a life.
unidentified		Yeah.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And it's only used as a last-ditch effort.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's how he laid it out.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Oh, exactly.
		And he did explain, I think my ability to comprehend was just not up to speed.
		Because remember, this is a very unusual procedure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How out of it were you?
		I mean, you said your speech was deteriorated.
		And it must have been affecting your thinking process as well.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, the pain was affecting my thinking process.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I had such intense pain that focus was difficult.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people who are in that much pain say that, well, we might as well fix it because I can't live like this.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was to that point.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it was beyond that point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Beyond.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		It was way beyond that point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I was so blessed to be in that position at that time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they prepped you very quickly, obviously, and they took you into surgery.
		Now, again, please don't take this as insensitive, but brain surgery is a pretty strange thing.
		They have drills and they have saws and they have, you know, it takes a lot.
		It's like a big coconut trying to get into a human brain.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they've got to more or less saw the sucker open.
		Mm-hmm.
		So as they wheeled you into the operating room, what sort of paraphernalia did you notice hanging around?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I didn't see anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I bet they cover all that stuff up.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think they probably put me out before they brought it out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you don't want to see a line of chainsaws as they wheel you out.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Spetzler said that there was no way that I could have seen any of that equipment going in, and I certainly didn't see it coming out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in you go, and it looks pretty good, and I guess they're saying we're about to give you a little bit of this or that and count backwards for us or the trees.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, whatever.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And away you went, huh?
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then this is a big question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then what?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, my first recollection, this is very odd.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I heard a pitch, and I pitched it at natural D. As a musician with perfect pitch, it was natural D. And the sound of it sort of reminded me of being in a dentist's office, of a drill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And I began to feel myself being pulled out of the top of my head.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And as I got out of the top of my head, I had this incredibly clear vision.
		And my hearing was enhanced.
		While I know it sounds funny, but to describe it this way, that there were physical properties to the soul that were definitely enhanced.
		It's as if every cell in my body was carrying the senses.
		And the first thing that I saw was an instrument in his hand that reminded me very much of the handle on my electric toothbrush.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You saw him?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Meaning you saw the doctor?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I saw many doctors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You saw, oh my goodness, you saw the operating room.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Yes.
		I saw them performing surgery on me.
		And there's a part of the surgical process whereby they access the femoral arteries and vein in order to remove the blood.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And I was very confused.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I thought they were doing surgery on the wrong place because, as we know, the femoral arteries are high up on the leg.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, yes.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And I distinctly heard a female voice, I would later learn she was my cardiologist, I distinctly heard her say, we have a little problem here.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Her veins and arteries are too small.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they were attempting then to get in, to remove all of your blood from the arteries and your legs?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		So they drained the blood.
		And it went into a holding tank.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your blood went into a holding tank.
unidentified		Right.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Went into a holding tank until they reintroduced it into the body after the clipping of the aneurysm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I take it they don't, do they drain your blood before they cool you down?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I think the cooling process begins first.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First.
		Do you know how they do that?
		I mean, do they pack you in ice?
unidentified		Yes.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		It's an ice bed, ice bath.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And they cool your body down, and in that process, the heart, you reach a certain place where the heart naturally stops.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just of its own.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		and then the blood is drained, and they get to a point where they can safely go in, use the brain saw, and go in and open the...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How can they drain your blood without your heart pumping it?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I really don't know.
		And I could be confused about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, not necessarily because I think, you know, in mortuaries, I don't want to get too morbid, but they drain the blood there without the heart pumping.
		So obviously there must be a way to do it.
		I'm not a medical expert.
		So there must be a way to do it.
		So they cool you off, and then they drain all your blood, and this is stored in a blood vap.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then your heart stops.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I wonder how long it takes for your brain waves to cease.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I would think immediately with the absence of blood flow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, pretty much immediately.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right, I would think so.
		But again, I'm not a doctor, and I can't really speak for Barrow Institute and what they do.
		I can only tell you what I know from my point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then out comes the surgical chainsaw.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, it wasn't really a chainsaw.
		It looked like the handle on my electric toothbrush.
		And I could see they had this case that they kept different sizes of bits in.
		And the case looked exactly like the case that my father kept his socket wrenches in when I was growing up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		So I was able to see that.
		And I was able to hear the conversation.
		And at about that time, I began to sense a pulling in my tummy.
		And I looked up.
		I sort of looked up and saw a light, a very small pinpoint of light way off in the distance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pam, just one quick break-in question.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This I really want to understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you were seeing all of these things, and obviously you saw a great deal of detail, maybe too much, thank you.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Amen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you feel conscious in the way that you feel conscious right now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was it the same kind of consciousness or a greater consciousness?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it was a heightened consciousness, Art.
		It was very heightened.
		I have never experienced anything before or since like that.
		It was Absolute, total, and complete focus.
		My eyesight was more clear.
		My hearing was more acute.
		I was just and pain?
		None.
		Oh, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No pain.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Healing was incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And your awareness of self was either as good or better than ever.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		And I was not changed in terms of self.
		I still had my same mind, my same attitudes, my same likes and dislikes.
		It was absolutely me without the body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you say without the body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you were seeing your body operated on from a detached place?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And I looked down at the body, realized it was my body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		But I've got to tell you, I felt about as attached to it, less attached to it, than I have some cars I've had to get rid of.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I absolutely had no attachment whatsoever to that body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So like if you had had to leave at that moment, you wouldn't have mourned as you left your body.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		No, no problem.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		But the feeling of coming out of it, especially having endured so much pain for so long, the feeling was total freedom, total peace, just complete serenity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Yeah, I wanted to understand the state of consciousness.
		That sounds really complete.
		In fact, super consciousness.
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so, wow.
		Oh, okay.
		So then you say you saw a light.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And the light began to pull me.
		And I literally had a physical sensation right above my belly button that reminds me of going over a hill real fast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, no, but here you are again talking about the physical.
		Exactly.
		But you were detached from your body.
		So when you say belly button, what do you mean?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I mean that there were properties to the soul that had, well, physical properties.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		They were very different from the physical properties of the body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, could you, was there anything of yourself?
		Did you look at your detached self?
		Were there hands and legs and feet?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		No.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		As a matter of fact, at one point, I put my hands up in front of my face, and the light was so incredibly bright that I could not see them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, you had a physical sense of all this, but no sight sense of it.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, not of my own body.
unidentified		Of your own body, I've got you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got you.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I was able to see others, but not myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So a very bright light, and you're starting to be drawn to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As if you wanted to go, or it was just drawing you whether you wanted to go or not.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		No, I wanted to go.
		It was wonderful.
		I cannot find words to express how incredibly free and serene.
		And the light was beautiful.
		And very shortly after that began, I distinctly heard my grandmother call me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your grandmother?
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		My grandmother.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And I sort of turned around to look from where her voice was coming, and there she was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there she was?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes, she was there.
		And with her was an uncle.
		There were many people I recognized and many I didn't.
		Do you remember your people?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember your surroundings other than the people being there?
		In other words, was it just sort of light and they were within that light?
		Or were there physical surroundings as well?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		They were light.
		They themselves were light.
		Their clothing was light.
		Light was emanating from them.
		It was how do you explain it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just the best you can.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		It was at one point I sensed a garden atmosphere.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I didn't really see a garden.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		But it's almost like I could smell fresh, new, just the feeling of being a garden.
		But now, remember, I was not permitted to go all the way through.
		I was stopped and detained at one point and told or communicated to that if I were allowed to go any further, something, a physical change would occur and they would be unable to reconnect the spiritual me to the physical me.
		So I was held there and not permitted to go all the way in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay.
		Here you are, though, with your relatives at one point, and then you left them.
		And how did this communication with you take place?
		Was this separate from your relatives, or were they still there at the time?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		They were with me, but with my relatives, there was a sea of people I didn't recognize.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Now, I know I was connected to them somehow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A sea of people?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Everywhere, all around me.
		And it struck me as really strange, and it still does today.
		These people loved me so much, and I didn't know who they were.
		I felt a strong connection to them, but I did not know who they were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Had you led, you know, I don't know how to ask this question.
		Had you led a good life?
		I mean, had you been basically a good person?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's a fabulous question, because when I first got there, my first thought was, I hope I'm in the right place because I have not lived a perfect life.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I've always been a loving person, but, you know, I was taught in a very stringent Christian environment that if you screw up, guess where you go?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And Lord knows I've done my share of screwing up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we all have.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We all have.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And there was a great laughter when I was thinking this thought, and my grandmother communicated to me, you were a child sent away to school.
		As a child, it was expected that you would spill your milk.
		It's the manner in which you cleaned it up that gives us cause for pride and allows you to be here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		So, and I thought, you know, that's it.
		That's it.
		We do what we know how to do.
		And when we make a mess, we clean it up and we try real hard not to do it again.
		And bingo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		During this particular time when your relatives were there, in other words, did you realize, did you know that you were dead?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, dead.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you knew you were dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were conscious of your situation.
unidentified		Now, we talk a lot about...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
		We talk a lot about ghosts and stuff on this program.
		And a lot of people speculate that some people, you know, who die instantly might not know right away that they're even dead.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		You know, I can see how that happens.
		But in my case, remember, I did have a clear understanding that I would have no heartbeat.
		I didn't know about the blood thing or didn't.
		I probably knew but didn't understand it.
		I didn't know how completely I would be dead.
		But yes, I did have some warning.
		And when it happened to me, I was not surprised.
		I didn't expect it, but I was not surprised.
		It seemed as natural to me as waking up in the morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So after the relatives or with them, after chatting with them, some voice or something imparted to you in what way that, listen, you can't really go any further.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or you shouldn't go any further.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which was it?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, I was not allowed to.
		It was, I can't.
		I was not given an opportunity to make a decision.
		That decision apparently had been made before I laid on that table.
		And I don't feel like it was a decision that was made for me.
		Even though, to be honest, once I got there, I changed my mind.
		I really had no desire.
		To go back?
		Well, I wanted to come back and rear my children and live my life.
		But at the end of the experience, when I saw the body, needless to say, it terrified me.
		I did not want to get in it.
		I knew it was going to hurt.
		And I had no interest in doing it at all whatsoever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about when you were out of your body?
		What about your sense of time?
		Was there any difference?
		In other words, there was a linear amount of time that the operation went on and a linear amount of time that you were dead.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		There was no sense of time or space whatsoever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it didn't coincide with what you felt when you were gone?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Nothing, no.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		However, in terms of linear time, the physicians who investigated the case tell me that my recount of the experience matched perfectly with the timing of the surgery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just as a matter of interest, well, first of all, did you recount all of this to your physicians, surgeons, afterwards?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I did, immediately afterwards.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Immediately, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how did they treat that information?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, I remember Dr. Spetzer raising an eyebrow and looking at me in a peculiar manner.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		But at the time, I believed that this was perfectly normal, that it happened to everyone.
		And I thought dealing in these kinds of cases as he did, surely he knew about it.
		And I was frankly very flippant and teasing about what had happened to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but as you began to give him details of what you could not possibly, not possibly have known, this must have been a little difficult for him to handle.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		You know, Dr. Spetzler handles an awful lot easily.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does he?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		He's a, you know, he runs a research center.
		And he once told me that we are in our infancy in our understanding of the brain and what it can do.
		And recounting that kind of evidence so quickly after surgery and having no way of knowing those details.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, not having talked to nurses who were there or surgical texts or whatever.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		He's certainly, although it doesn't correspond with what he knows about the brain, I believe he said on one of the Discovery Channel programs, he certainly is not all knowing enough to say it didn't happen.
		And it is quite unusual that those kinds of details in that great of number would be so forthcoming so quickly after the process.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, he would be an interesting person for me to interview about your case and other cases just like yours.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know the man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Put in a good word for me, would you?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I will.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I'll be glad to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Pam, we're at a breakpoint, so hold on.
		Pam Reynolds is my guest.
		She died on the operating table.
		And you know, I've forgotten to even ask how long.
		Quite some period of time, though.
		She was physically dead, and you're hearing her story.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from December 6, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from December
		6, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from December 6, 2001.
		What will you do when you lonely go more by your dad?
		You feel love, I don't know what you want.
		You always just want me on my knees.
		Thank you, darling, please, babe.
		Darling, don't you leave me alone.
		Thank you.
		Try to give me a letter.
		Oh, man, let you down.
		Like a few, I feel a legend.
		You turn my heart up now.
		Baby, got me on my knees.
		Baby, got me on my knees.
		Hey, darling, please, baby.
		You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
		Tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from December 6, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Pam Reynolds, and she died on the operating table.
		All the blood gone, heart stopped, brain waves gone, dead.
		And that's what we're talking about, a remarkable, just a remarkable story, and we'll get right back to her.
		Okay, once again, Pam Reynolds.
		And, oh boy, Pam, so, so many questions.
		How did your relatives appear to you?
		Did they appear to be in the full physical?
		Were they somewhat translucent?
		Were they only beings of light?
		And if so, how did you recognize them as your relatives?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, they did.
		They looked like my relatives.
		And the peculiar thing is that they looked like my relatives at the best times in their lives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes, even my grandmother looked very young.
		Her voice was my identifier.
		She did not look like she looked when she passed away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No kidding?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		No kidding.
		My uncle as well.
		I didn't see anyone old.
		And I didn't see anyone very, very young.
		It was as if everyone I saw was perfect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess this is kind of an ultimate question, Pam, but if you had no brain waves, you had no neural functions firing, your brain was dead meat.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		during this time, then where were you, Pam?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		That's an excellent question, and it's one for the books.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		It has huge implications for not only the spiritual aspects, but also the medical aspects.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I used to myself believe in the brain theory.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		The brain made me do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		The physicians indicated to me, but, sweetheart, you had no brain.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And it wasn't a hallucination because you were hooked up to an EEG machine, and if you had had a tickle of a brain wave, it would have registered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You need brain waves and neural activity to have a hallucination.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Precisely.
		Not only that, but when I came back into the body, and it still to this day astounds me, Art, that I'm able to recall this, that it registered and downloaded, and it's such a vivid memory.
		It's as if it's still happening.
		And how does that happen?
		See, that, to me, is one of those physical answers that I believe is knowable.
		I think that eventually, through research...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We can know?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And that's why I totally support Barrow Institute Foundation, because they are the cutting-edge research foundation for the brain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pun intended, I guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cutting.
unidentified		Cutting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pam, I want to tell you about a quick experience I had, because it seems to parallel something that happened to you.
		This is the only time it ever happened in my life.
		You know, for years, I've interviewed people about out-of-body experiences and all the rest of it, and it was all very interesting, but nothing had ever happened to me.
		My wife and I had the opportunity, it was really cool, to go to Paris on the Concorde.
		You know, it was one of those deals where we got to ride along as part of a sort of a radio station thing.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Very cool.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was very cool.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, I was working at the time six days a week, 30 hours on the air every week.
unidentified		Whoa.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I had a really, really strict schedule.
		I mean, when you broadcast like this, your life revolves around it.
		It's not just how you do.
		Your life revolves around it.
		And so I had a very strict regimen.
		And when I went off to Paris, all of that got cattywampus.
		It just, my life turned upside down.
		All of a sudden, I had free time, and my mind was free, and I was relaxed and totally out of my normal environment.
		And my wife and I were lying in a bed in Paris.
		And, Pam, I went out of my body.
		I have never experienced anything like this in my life.
		It was like I instantly, at 10 zillion miles an hour, went up above Paris, way up above, somewhere up above Paris.
		And I was in a completely joyful state.
		I mean, I had never felt such overwhelming joy in my whole life.
		Nothing like it.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it shocked me so badly, Pam, that I snapped right back into my body.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		You crashed is what you did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man, did I crash.
		I'll tell you what.
		It shocked me, Pam.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Crash landing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I crash landed.
		And I was, when I came to, when I came back, I woke up my wife, and I said, oh, my God, you wouldn't believe what just happened.
		And I was telling her about it, and that's not a good thing to wake up your wife like that.
		But, you know, I couldn't stop talking about it.
		I was so excited.
		It was so amazing what happened to me.
		It was like I took a shot like the fastest elevator up you've ever.
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you experienced something just like that, didn't you?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Really?
		That's why I have to believe that this thing happens to all of us, that it's physical law.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Physical law.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Belief system being belief systems, and faith being a thing that's unprovable.
		Physical law has no basis in belief system.
		You don't have to believe the sun will come up.
		up in the morning for the sun to come up because it's physical law well you mentioned you were raised as a Christian a very strict Christian household pretty much yes so did any part of your experience validate your religion or was religion sort of not exactly part of it well Yes, it validated everything that I believe, but it did a little more than that for me.
		I learned while I was there that each and every one of us has a different tone, a different spirit.
		We're not cookie-cutter people.
		And I firmly believe, as per my experience, that we all find our path on our own, in our own individual ways.
		And to borrow someone else's just does not work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So souls, then, are absolutely individual things.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		There was no, in my experience, there was no great merging into one single unit.
		I had all of my individuality intact, and the people I was with did as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's what I've always wanted to know.
		Although, you have to wonder if from where you were, you were to move onward, if that would change.
		There's no way to know that, huh?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, not from where I am right now.
		I suspect it would not, though.
		And the reason I suspect that is because there was a great chorus going on.
		And the chorus contained the different tones of the different people that I was with.
		Now, as a musician, I can tell you that when you create that many tones, what you end up with is discordance.
		However, it was just the opposite.
		It was the most beautiful harmony I have ever experienced.
		And I cannot tell you, even though my theory, I have a master's degree in classical composition, and I cannot tell you how that is possible.
		But it is possible.
		It happened.
		And I could easily see how leaving out even one of those tones would leave a great hole in the chorus.
		A very empty place in the chorus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that it, of course, there's not going to be a way for you to answer this unless you had a conversation, but do you think it's going to be the same for everybody or an individual experience for everybody?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I think everything is an individual experience for everyone, even though it is the same.
		My take on a full moon is going to be different than yours because we're different.
		But yet it's the same moon.
		So my take on it is a thing is not a thing.
		A thing is how we perceive a thing.
		And in that way, it's always different.
		And yet it's the same.
		Especially as pertaining to physical law.
		And as I said before, I believe that this is going to happen to everyone, whether or not they believe it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you have, with this light, did you have a dialogue with the light?
		Were you able to ask anything or say anything?
		Or was it just information?
		Oh, really?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		But I wasn't speaking with the light.
		I was speaking with individuals.
		And there were many things passed between us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Relatives?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Some relatives, and again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And some not?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Many people that I did not know, but they knew me.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And there was some kind of connection there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They knew you?
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I go further than that.
		They didn't just know me.
		They loved me.
		And were very concerned for my life's path and where I was and what was going on with me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of conversations can you recall?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of communications?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, at one point, I asked what the nature of the light was, and I asked if the light was God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good question.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And I was told, no, the light is not God.
		It's what happens when God respirates.
		Breathe.
		Again, there goes that physical concept.
		I believe, you know, the scriptures say the kingdom of God is within, it's right here, it's right now.
unidentified		Yes.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I think it's another dimension.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I really do.
		I think it's another dimension that we just don't understand.
		Our technology is not yet caught up with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of our theoretical physicists, the best minds in the world, agree with you.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I interview them here, and that is where all the speculation is going right now about other dimensions, 11 or more of them, actually.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, that amazes me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And perhaps you stepped into the first adjacent dimension.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		It felt more like a holding tank than a final destination.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A holding tank?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		It really did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With all of these people.
		Do you think these other people were also, well, gee, in the case of your grandmother, she's been gone a while, earth time.
		I guess, right?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so maybe there's no way to measure how long one stays in the, in quotes, holding tank, huh?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I don't think they belong there.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I think they came for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For you?
unidentified		Yes.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		They came for me to retrieve me and take care of me and make sure that I made it to my destination.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This would indicate a soul has great value indeed.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And it was also communicated to me that even though I didn't see them and talk with them on a daily basis, that they were able to come here and be with us.
		So, I mean, for a while, I was a little nervous about getting the shower.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, a number of them told you they visit the Earth.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that they were with us, that they were with me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy, that sure accounts for a lot.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And I sense them.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		To this day, I sense them around me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You feel them around you?
unidentified		Hmm?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has this changed your Has this affected the way you feel about the prospect of eventual death?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		After all, we are all going to die.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I really didn't contemplate it until I found out it was going to happen to me.
		I don't think I had a fear of death per se.
		I had a fear of leaving my children without their mother.
		Of course.
		But in terms of fearing death, absolutely not.
		In fact, I've got another funny story for you.
		The way that I was introduced to Dr. Michael Sabaum, who did the initial research on this case, was I went in for an appointment with a neurologist, and I had had a concussion to the back of the head and a severe brain injury after the surgery.
		And she told me, in a very solemn way, that I was left with a condition that could easily take my life.
		I laughed at her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You laughed at her?
unidentified		I laughed.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I couldn't stop laughing.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		So that's the bad news.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, others that I have interviewed, you must know of Daniel Brinkley, for example.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I've heard the name, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's had several near-death experiences.
		He was burned up, hit by lightning.
		And he had, well, he, did you have a life review?
		Any sort of life review?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, he did.
		He also encountered a lot of what you encountered.
		But, you know, his attitude about life-threatening stuff now is exactly that.
		He laughs at people.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And that's the bad news?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the bad news.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, beat me, hurt me, let me die.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He says it just like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He says it exactly like that.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		He says, well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then your attitude about dying since that experience obviously is oh well.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		It's not even oh well, it's oh good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh good?
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm ready.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Call me home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has it changed the way you live your life since?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Profoundly, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I'm pretty isolated.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I'm very sensitive, highly intuitive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's another thing that's happened to a lot of people who have done nearly what you have done, and that is that they have a heightened sense of psychic ability.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Although I don't like the word psychic, I can certainly understand why it would be referred to as that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A heightened intuitiveness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How about that?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but it's a little more than that.
		I paid very close attention to how it works in me, and I noticed that it's not purely telepathic.
		I've noticed that a lot of it, at least half of it, is Sherlock Holmes syndrome.
		Again, physical law.
		If you do this, this will happen, cause and effect.
		I have a heightened perception of what's going on.
		If a person is telling me a story and swearing it's true while he's shaking his head backwards and forwards, I'm pretty sure they're lying.
		And that to me is not necessarily psychic phenomenon as I understand it.
		And yet, I think it's a combination of things.
		I think that this is a thing that everyone has, and we've allowed our intellects to override it.
		I really believe that it's as primitive as animal instinct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How soon after coming out of this did that begin?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you notice?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Immediately.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I could hear, you see, the method of communication there was so much different than it is here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		There was no verbal speech.
		So immediately after the surgery, I was hearing people speak when they weren't speaking.
		And that still is a very big problem for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I'm out with people and I'll think they've said something to me, so I'll respond to them and they look at me like, uh-oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, the same as other, I've interviewed so many NDE people and the same thing.
		You know, again, I can refer to Dan because I know him so well.
		He'll come to visit and he'll be with me and I can't spend long amounts of time with Dan.
		And the reason for that is because he makes me intensely uncomfortable.
		The guy knows what I'm thinking all the time.
		And it's unnerving.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, is this something you can turn off?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		No.
		If I could, believe me, I would.
		See, I believe the energy is a lot like electricity.
		It'll light the house up or burn it down.
		Now, not being electrician.
		An electrician, I don't play with that.
		But when the lights go on, I can't help but see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And there's no way.
		I can busy my mind and stave it off for a time.
		But the moment I get quiet, here it comes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if you're adjacent to a lot of people, is it like a cacophony of noise?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sometimes.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And yet I am able to isolate what's coming from who.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you are?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's kind of a unique ability.
		In the beginning, Danion told me he couldn't, and that bothered him intensely.
		I mean, he would get to the point where he would tell everybody, get out of the room.
		I'm sorry.
		I want to be alone.
		I want to meditate.
		I want to be alone.
		I have to be alone.
		Right.
		Remarkable.
		All right.
		We're at the bottom of an hour.
		Pam, hold on.
		Pam Reynolds is my guest.
		She went to the other side and back.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from December 6th, 2001.
		I'm just beginning to see now I'm on my way.
		It doesn't matter to me, chasing the clouds away.
		Some day holds to me.
		The trees are joined.
		What a wonderful world.
		I see skies so blue and clouds of white.
		The bright blessed day stalks say goodnight.
		And I think to myself, What a wonderful world The colors of the rainbow so pretty in the sky are also on the faces of people going by I see friends shaking hands saying how
		I'll be there.
		They're really saying I love you.
		I have made this cry.
		You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from December 6, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think when I saw the 48 Hours piece on Pam Reynolds, you may have seen it too.
		They kind of left the piece by asking the really big question, and that was during the time there were no brainwaves, zip, zero, nothing.
		Where was Pam Reynolds?
		Where was she?
		We'll be right back.
		Once again from Atlanta, Georgia, Pam Reynolds.
		Pam, during the time that you were gone, because that's the right word, gone, did you have any larger sense of the world?
		Did you understand any more about the world?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you did?
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		During the process when I was with my relatives and other people, they downloaded me, they fed me something.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And it went into the top of my head and it was sparkly, like golden sparkle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And I literally had the sensation of being fed and nurtured.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And again, there comes that physical element.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And I had, since then, I came back with a sure and certain knowledge of the way we were going and how we were getting there and how we could avoid getting there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And how we couldn't.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell us as much of that as you're able, if you would, please, because this, again, is so typical of what others have experienced.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I saw what a lot of people, other people see, vast earth changes.
		I see a consciousness change.
		And I think that's going to happen around 2012.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		2012.
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		End, oh, the Mayan calendar.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		2012 is when the Mayan calendar just abruptly ends, like they didn't have anything more to, anyway.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't see the end of the world, but I do see a breakthrough in physics that will make it, cause us to understand, the space-time continuum and how terribly wrong we are to look at time as a linear thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy mackerel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you understand all of these concepts prior to this?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Of course not.
		I'm a musician.
		I understand B flat equals C when you're playing a trumpet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And now you're throwing time continuum at me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		No.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I understood a lot about physical law that I absolutely had no concept of prior to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do we misunderstand or not understand about the nature of time?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		We don't understand that everything that has ever happened and will ever happen is actually happening right now.
		That linear time is a man-made device in order for us to control our environment, to be able to label it and move within the physical structure that we're in.
		And it has really no relativity whatsoever outside of the human condition.
unidentified		Oh.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		It's just not like that.
unidentified		You say you saw earth changes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How specific?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How specific?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I'm thinking something like polar shifts.
		I'm thinking water where there was none.
		Oh.
		I'm thinking volcanoes and earthquakes.
		And, of course, we've had a lot of that going on already.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, we have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there's also, Pam, you know, there's mounting evidence now that what we had previously thought about what happened here on earth and man's history is all wrong.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're right.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Because we're much older and we have been more civilized for a longer time than is in recorded history.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About six months ago, Pam, I began breaking a story about this remarkable find 2,200 feet, almost a half a mile below the water in Cuba, of this what appears to be an urban area city.
		And just tonight on CNN, MSNBC, Reuters, they're breaking the story themselves that there's been this urban city found way below the water in Cuba.
		It's breaking the mainstream press.
		So, you know, it would tend to underscore what you're saying right now.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		The thing is, you know, I really believe that with all of our technology, we are so vulnerable to destruction because we all use computers, but can we build one?
		And can we network all of these wonderful things that we have?
		I think not.
		We're too specialized for that.
		And if we have a shutdown or a meltdown, we're right back to planting the seed and harvesting just to stay alive.
		So it's very easy for me to see how advanced civilizations could go from that kind of advancement right back to agriculture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you actually see that happening?
		In other words, you're right.
		I mean, we're a technological civilization.
		I'm one who lives clearly right in the very middle of it all the time.
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we depend on this, but it's a thin thread indeed, and it wouldn't take much to toss us back.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now...
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I don't see that happening, but I don't see it happening globally.
		I think that we've come to a point, humanity has come to a point, that our technology is merging with our spirituality.
		Mm-hmm.
		And as this begins to happen, our memories become more complex, acute and i believe that we are able to store and pass on to future generations more of that than we were ever before in In this great download of information that occurred to you, was there anything with regard to what's happening in the world, the environment of the world itself?
		Yes, in terms of, like, for instance, the war in the Middle East?
		Yes.
		That was something that I shared, as a matter of fact, with a very dear friend of mine shortly after the process.
unidentified		Oh, my.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And it, I mean, right down to where it was going down.
unidentified		Oh.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And it's not, but again, I can't say that that's purely psychic phenomenon because there was so much information available that I obviously with an IQ of 160, I'm going to pay attention to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have an IQ of 160?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		160, yes.
		And by the way, my doctor would have you know that I still have that IQ after the surgical process, as well as perfect pitch.
		And I can tell you, if I take a Benadryl, I shouldn't say that, a cold preparation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can say that.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		You can say that it interferes with that process.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it does.
		Now, I would like to know why this terrible insult to my brain and my body did not interfere with that process.
		And again, the only way we're going to find that out is research.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, they have, there's some really interesting research, Pam.
		There have been people, believe it or not, who have had half their brains or better actually removed and they remain functional in every way.
		There is so much about our brains that we don't even begin to understand.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And the research center over at Barrow Institute, I mean, these people are into all of that.
		And they're cutting edge.
		They are right on the cutting edge of everything that's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the big barrier, Pam, the big barrier, and what I cannot understand, rationalize in any scientific way known to mankind or in my own mind, is that, look, once, I mean, your heart can stop, a little oxygen still to the brain, fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But when they take out all your blood, your heart stops, and then your brain wave totally goes flat line.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then no hallucinations, no imaginations, no dreams, no anything should be occurring because that's the electrical process of the brain.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And we're talking about an hour in that state, Art.
		We're not talking about just a few minutes.
		We're talking about an hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were an hour?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		If you would examine my body anytime during that hour, I would be found to be dead by all clinical criteria.
		So, we're not talking about something that was just a matter of a few minutes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An hour?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the time that you spent gone seemed to, though there was no real relationship, what you were able to tell them later seemed to coincide with the hour?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, precisely.
		And the way that that was documented was as I came back into the body, I was watching as they defibrillated me.
		They put the paddles to my chest, and the body jerked, and I communicated to my uncle, there's no way I'm getting in that thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You actually remember seeing the paddles?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		You saw the body jump.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I know, oh, my, I know that in some cases like yours, when they put the blood back in the body, the heart will start spontaneously.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Obviously, that didn't occur in your case.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, it did, but I had fibrillation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Which is a deadly condition.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, of course.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And they had to normalize the sinus rhythm of the heart.
		And the first time it didn't work, I would not re-enter the body.
		My uncle explained to me, honey, it's like diving into a swimming pool.
		Just dive in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember any sensation when they hit the paddles the first time?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		No, because I wasn't in the body.
		The second time, it hurt.
		I definitely remember that because I about jumped off the table.
		And then I heard a line from the title cut, the Hotel California album by the Eagles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave.
		So the first thing I said to Dr. Carl when I woke up was, boy, was that insensitive.
		What a thing to do to a poor kid, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did a lot of doctors, and it sounds like this one might be one, will play classical music while they operate.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		I'm told that Dr. Spetzler likes classical music.
		And the way that the doctors explained it to me was he had left the operating theater and left me to the cardiology team to finish up and close me up.
		And they began to play rock and roll, and that's what was playing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many people were on this team?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There must have been, for an operation of this magnitude, I bet there's quite a crowd.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I couldn't count.
		They were so numerous, I just could not count.
		I can tell you that they were so thick that I could barely see the body.
		I saw mostly heads, the tops of heads.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember whether the movement you saw in the operating room and around you was whether people were moving at normal speed, speaking in normal speech?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		It didn't go into hyperspeed until I was out of the body and into the light or in through the tunnel close to the light.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And then everything seemed to be in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now you had not mentioned a tunnel before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mentioned a light.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was a tunnel.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		The light was a tiny little pinpoint of light that began to pull me.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		But there was a dark, I don't know how to explain this, kind of like the Wizard of Oz being in the middle of a tornado.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was motion.
		There was a lot of motion going on.
		And I felt as if I was in a very fast-moving train.
		I saw many things, but it was going by so quickly that I could not really slow myself down long enough to define them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you were racing toward that light.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, In an attempt to explain what you're talking about right now, a lot of neurosurgeons have said, oh, well, you know, the brain dies from the outside moving inward.
		So this pinpoint of light is the very center of the brain or the last place where the neurons are firing.
		And so they explain that as the tunnel and the light at the end of the tunnel.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		But that's real hard to do when you don't have any brain waves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, ma'am.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Now, the very last bastion for the brainwave theory is that they don't believe that the equipment, the technology we have is sensitive enough to pick up the minute brain activity that may have been occurring, but I am told...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so either, and neither do my doctors.
		They feel like if that kind of hallucination would definitely have recorded, we would have seen something.
		And the whole theory behind I heard what was going on in the operating room and built a picture, they put speakers in my ears that made such a loud clicking noise that I'm told if I were fully conscious, I couldn't have heard a thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would they do that?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		To check my brainstem.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		It was supposed to stimulate my brainstem, to try to elicit some kind of response from the brainstem and monitor it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And that's how they're absolutely sure that there was not any activity.
		Both brains, upper and lower brain, were completely flatlined.
		There was simply nothing there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, hey, hey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you, prior to the operation, agree to have 48 hours, or how did 48 hours get involved in covering what happened to you?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, Dr. Michael Sabaum, who has been on your show, and I'm sure you're familiar with him, wrote a book, and he investigated my case.
		I was very reluctant to talk about it.
		I thought that it was just one of many, big deal.
		It happens to everybody.
		But he said because of the monitoring, it bore investigation.
		And he went in and investigated it, and lo and behold, learned that there were some real funny things going on here.
		And as he began to release his book, of course, the news media showed up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Prior to the operation?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		No, after years after the operation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Years after the operation.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		See, I wouldn't discuss it with anyone but family, friends, and doctors up until that time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What made you decide to suddenly go ahead and talk about it?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was put to me like this.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		You have to tell because you can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I would have told you the same thing.
		Oh, God, you've got to tell.
		People need to be able to hear this.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, and not only on a spiritual level, but again, on a medical level.
		Why did my brain store this information?
		How did it store it and how did it keep it when there was no activity?
		If we solved that problem, we opened the door to all kinds of healing techniques, from Parkinson's to Alzheimer's to epilepsy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You name it.
		Somebody might say, well, look, you had this experience when you were either on the way out or on the way back.
		But that cannot possibly explain your ability to document what went on during the whole operation when your brain was gone.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Precisely.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And also, the timing of the conversation that I heard was precise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was precise.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Precise with the exiting of the body.
		And the visual, I'm told that they normally do not have to defibulate patients.
		Right.
		And I'm told that, yes, I was defibulated twice, which is highly unusual.
		And that would have been the end of my near-death experience and also my first heartbeat.
		So, see, in that way, we can put a linear time on it in terms of this world and what was happening here.
		I left at a time when there was no brain function, and I returned at a time when my body had just started to become active again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you a spiritual person before this, in the sense of even considering things like our environment, earth changes, what's happening in the Middle East, all of this information that was downloaded to you?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		No, not really.
		I'm a very clinical, analytical person.
		I still am.
		I believe that half of what happened to me is spiritual, and the other half is science that we just don't understand yet.
		But through research, we can understand, and we will understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if that would be, and I've wondered about this in recent days, whether that would be a good thing if we conclusively, scientifically prove that consciousness not only continues, but is enhanced following physical death, what kind of effect that's going to have on the world and all the people in it?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't see a whole lot of difference there because we're in school here, and education is very, very important.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And I believe that you have to have a certain level of education in order to move on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In school here?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		This is school.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		It's just a great, big, huge university that was created for us to come train.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm worried because at best I'm a C student.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		well don't be so worried because we're all judged each in accordance to our own understanding.
		It's not a...
		We're individuals, and we're looked at as individuals, and that actually is a thing to be rejoicing about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was there any indication to you that there was a place less pleasant than you were where it's possible to go?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I didn't see any hell, but I can't tell you it doesn't exist just because I didn't see it.
		I didn't have any sense of it.
		It wasn't discussed.
		but I do have a profound sense that if I don't do what's expected of me, then I will bear the consequences for that in much the same way as I would bear those consequences here on the earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think part of what is expected of you is to be able to tell people about, you know, about all of this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was that part of it?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		However, I was warned on the other side not to come down here and start the church of the gospel, according to Pam.
		There had been enough of that to tell the simple truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
		There's been a lot of that, Pam.
		Listen, if you'll stick around one more hour, I'll open the lines.
		I'd love to be able to let people ask questions.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, done deal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stay right where you are.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pam Reynolds is my guest.
		I'm Art Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from December 6, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from December
		6, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from December 6, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from December 6, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from December 6, 2001.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired December 6th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure is.
		Good morning, everybody.
		An absolutely remarkable interview.
		Simply remarkable.
		With Pam Reynolds, who was dead for an hour.
		Really dead.
		No brain waves.
		No blood.
		No heartbeat.
		No anything.
		Dead by her own doctor's definition.
		Really dead.
		And we're going to the phones.
		If you have questions for Pam, that's what's coming next.
		Once again, here's Pam Reynolds all the way from Atlanta where, gee in Atlanta, it must be getting to be real late.
		What is it, a little after four o'clock there or something?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		It's 4.10.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hanging in there okay?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Oh, doing fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then you must be basically pretty healthy after all of this, huh?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Reasonably.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I mean, considering the situation, I'm real healthy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All things considered, that's right.
		I guess you are real healthy.
		All right, here we go, if you're ready.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I'm ready.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Pam.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, this is Joanne from Pasadena, and I have a question for Pam.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		I am a doctor of chiropractic, and I've been doing a little research on the body-mind stress relationship to health and the manifestation of illnesses in the body, and finding that virtually every one of them has some kind of negative thoughts or negative emotions behind them.
unidentified		So my question to you is, do you remember when you were a child ever having had the wind knocked out of you to where you were not sure you would ever get it back?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
		I remember that.
		I was punched in the stomach a few times where I thought, yeah, not possible to take a breath if that's what you're talking about.
unidentified		Yes, that's what I'm talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, I've been there.
unidentified		And I have found three people, so that's why I ask, and I don't know if you have anyone who is alive that you could ask that question of if when you were a child, perhaps that might have happened to you.
		But I know three people who have had either aneurysms or one was cancer in which they did live through it, but they had all the thing in common that they had had the wind knocked out of them, which means they set a negative thought up in their mind which said, I'm going to die if I do not get my breath back.
		And those literal words were like an energy that was set up there.
		That's what I'm postulating.
		I'm going to die if I don't get my breath back.
		And then it takes many years before it manifests.
		With these people, it took around 20 some odd years before it manifested.
		And so anyway, that was the question.
		And then I had a, so, you know, it'd be really interesting if you could find from a sister or brother or anyone else that was living if they know if that ever happened to you.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And the other comment I had was on where you went when you went out of your body.
		I've done some research on that too.
		I'm actually writing a book called Breaking Age Barriers, subtitle, In Search of the Fountain of Youth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Plug plug, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where do you think she went?
unidentified		I think she went to, well, you know, we say that she went some, we don't, we call it maybe somewhere, but I don't get she went anywhere.
		I get that she went everywhere and nowhere into what is real reality.
		We call the physical universe reality, but it's the physicists say it's an illusion because you have all these atoms that are filled with space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, it's a listen, we'll cut it off there, but it's a very good point.
		In other words, we tromping around Earth doing whatever we do every day, we think of this as reality.
		But the sense that I got from listening to you, Pam, was that there was a much greater reality, a much heightened sense of consciousness and reality where you were than here.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Precisely.
		A lot.
		It's a lot more increased.
		I got the feeling coming back into the body and being there a day or two that 99% of the people around me were asleep and the rest of us were in a profound state of shock from what we were seeing.
		It really is more like slumber, isn't it?
		In a dream.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In a dream, not all that conscious.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And I think perhaps that's what Joanne is trying to say, that this is a dream.
		And the real reality happens somewhere else.
		And I would concur with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, that kind of makes sense, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If it is a better place, then there is a heightened sense of consciousness of everything, which is a joyful experience.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With me, when I had my little blast in Paris, I just, it was so overwhelming and so shocking that I blasted myself back into my body very, very quickly.
		But boy, talk about an overwhelming, indescribable.
		I tried to find words for it and tell my audience, and I really couldn't.
		The words don't do it justice.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And the speed at which things seem to happen.
		You think a thing, and there you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whoosh.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		In there.
		Yeah.
		Whoosh.
		Right away, immediately.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whoosh, right away.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And I kind of got the impression that the reason we're in school in these dense bodies is because you don't give Porsches to three-year-olds because they can't ride.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And here we are trying to learn how to operate, trying to allow our consciousness to catch up with our abilities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Pam Reynolds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, hi, Art.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
unidentified		Hello to you, Pam, too.
unidentified		My name is Adam calling from L.A. Yeah, what struck me the most about what she said was the downloading of information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And how, I mean, I've been listening to your show now a couple weeks, so I'm brand new, but I heard the Sean David Morton show on the remote viewing, and a lot of what she said ties into that.
unidentified		My question was, this downloading, this open-mindedness, Pam, is this something that's continual now?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Is this something that's not so much that it's continual?
		I think that my brain, in this dense matter, in this slowed down atmosphere, is taking its time processing the information.
		The information, in other words, is all there.
		It's just that because I'm in a much slower, dense physical environment, it's taking me longer to download it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And some of this information then, as time goes on, is becoming more clear to you?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Exactly.
		It seems to pop up as I need it.
unidentified		That was my other question, was how clear is it?
		It's like when you have a dream, when you awake immediately, you have this very vivid image of what the dream was, and then as it goes, you sort of lose it.
		I guess this is the opposite.
		Exactly.
		It's sort of like you took a picture, and now you're able to examine the details of the picture.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And it's all as if it's happening right now.
		It's not a memory of an event that happened 10 years ago.
		It's an event that's ongoing.
unidentified		That's really, really fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it is.
		Go ahead.
		I'm sorry.
unidentified		Go ahead.
unidentified		Yeah, I was just completely floored by the similarities in what she said about her, I don't want to call them predictions so much as what she saw in her downloading and the similarities in the remote viewing that Sean was talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Daniel and others.
		Yes, it completely floored me as well as I listened.
		Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, see, that's why I believe it's physical law.
		Physical law is whether or not you believe it.
		And if it is, then it is the same for everyone.
		The sun comes up, and the sun is the sun, whether or not you believe it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Pam Reynolds.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Kathy in Oklahoma City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How you doing, Kathy?
unidentified		Good.
		And Pam, I have two questions for you.
		I saw a program on television, Discovery, for 48 Hours, where at the very end, you were telling your story, and you said when you met up with your relative, you felt as though you were standing in the breath of God.
		And it caused me to basically jump up and go, she's right, she's right.
		It was just something that I knew instinctively was correct.
		Do you want to talk about that a little?
		Standing in the breath of God?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		As I told Art just a little while ago, when I asked the nature of the light, it was explained to me that the light was not in and of itself God, but it was what happened when he respirated.
		Right.
		And at that time, at that exact moment, I thought, wow, I'm standing in the breath of God.
unidentified		Okay, so someone told you before you said that then?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was communicated to me when I was on the other side.
unidentified		Wow.
		Right, and I feel that that is very correct.
		I don't know why, just instinctively.
		My second question is, with everything that you've been through in your life, the way you were raised and now what you've gone through, do you feel or do you know whether or not the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ is relevant or important, should be paid attention to?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think everything is important to be paid attention to.
unidentified		I mean, his claims that we're sinners in need of reconciliation with God and that reconciliation was done through his death.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in other words, pretty hardcore stuff here, Pam.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, is everything that we're taught, as was just laid out, was that like center stage for you in your experience or not?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		No, no, I never saw Jesus or God, but I can tell you, it's my personal belief that God is a whole lot more forgiving than we are and that we have to come to grips with ourselves and be the kind of people that we have to become what is good in our eyes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you ever told at all about what would be beyond where you were or just that you could not go there?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Just that I could not go there.
		And the message that I got was that I probably couldn't wrap my mind around what was over there when I come back into the body.
		I think that it's just so incredible I couldn't get my mind around it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And your sense was that there was one other level or one other place beyond where you were or many places beyond where you were?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Worlds within worlds.
		No, I had a sense of vast, huge, different places for different people at different stages of development.
		I still had that strong sense.
		Some of us are, well, we're all still learning on a level.
		I don't believe the educational process stops when you die.
		It certainly didn't for me.
		It seems to have begun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are many people in the world who believe in reincarnation, that souls come back to Earth for another shot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any indication that that would or wouldn't be true?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I don't personally have any experience with reincarnation, so I cannot confirm or deny that that is or is not true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It wasn't part of that.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		But I can tell you, I have a very strong sense that I'm older than the stars, and I'll probably be here long after they all burn out.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		So whatever that means.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is all post the procedure, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or did you have these same feelings?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		No, this is all as a direct result of what happened to me.
unidentified		Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Western Rockies, you're on the air with Pam Reynolds.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there.
unidentified		Good morning, Pam.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		This is Kathy in Phoenix, Arizona, and I worked in a lowly position at DeBarrow Neurological Institute between 1964 and 1974.
unidentified		Hi, Kathy.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Your family.
unidentified		Oh, sorry.
		Well, in a way.
		At the time, I'll give you a thumbnail background here to my question.
		At the time, I worked right next to the research lab.
		And someone somewhere offered a huge reward for anyone who could prove the existence of a soul.
		And there was much research done around the world.
		And there was finally a book published.
		And of course, no one proved anything.
		But it was very interesting.
		It was something that I would like to have heard more about, but never did.
		But my question in that respect is, I didn't understand you to say that when you were out of your body, that you were actually a soul or that you were just a conscious entity of some sort.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		No, I was definitely a soul.
unidentified		A soul.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		There were some physical properties to that soul.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Ah, not like this body, but there were definite physical properties and sensations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But this was something, if I understand correctly, that you sensed more than you saw.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, people, I'm told people who lose their arm still have the exact feeling that their arm is there, right?
unidentified		Right.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In that sense?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, more than that.
		It is as if every cell of my body contained my sensory abilities.
		Instead of seeing with the eyes, I saw with every cell, every piece of essence of myself provided that vision.
unidentified		Well, don't you think that I don't remember when first the OBEs came around, but prior to listening to Art Bell, I had never heard of them before.
unidentified		And I was wondering if this is a new phenomenon or if it's something that is old as the hills.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		You know, I couldn't answer that question.
		I'm not really a student of these things.
		I'm just a poor innocent bystander.
		I haven't happened to.
unidentified		Well, my feeling is that these LBEs do definitely prove that there is a soul.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I think so, too.
unidentified		Whatever the purpose of that soul is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What we're hearing this morning from Pam really does sound like pretty solid proof to me.
		Absolutely.
		I'm sitting here trying to decide how to knock holes in it, but she was able to articulate what went on during the operation.
		That's impossible.
		I mean, that's absolutely flat impossible.
		Her heart was stopped.
		Her blood was gone.
		Her brain waves were zip.
		So that's impossible.
unidentified		Did you, Pam, did you discuss any of this soul business or what you actually were when you were out of the body with your doctor?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Not at great length.
		I was, to tell you the truth, I treated it with a great deal of humor, assuming that everyone did that.
		And of course, he knew all about it.
unidentified		Oh, he did.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, I thought he did, but apparently this was a very unusual case.
		And, of course, at a time when my body was in such a state of shock and that terrible shock had gone on, he was real interested in saving my life.
		So he didn't spend a lot of time discussing the fine points.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But Pam, when you told him what you told him, and you said you told him almost immediately afterwards.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you have the sense that even though an eyebrow went up, you said, did you have the sense that he'd heard some of these stories before?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I didn't get the sense that he hadn't.
		I got the sense that he believed me totally and completely immediately.
		And I have no way of knowing why he believed me.
		Other than, like I said, I assumed that his being in touch with life and death every day, I assumed that this was a common occurrence and would later find out on no contraire.
		Not with this operation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anything else, Caller?
unidentified		No, I thank you very much, both of you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Amazing.
		Thank you.
		Do you still follow up?
		Does this doctor stay in touch with you at all?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, I do see him.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I just saw him last time I saw him, let's see, it was a year ago, November.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, do me a favor.
		The next time you see him, tell him I would like to speak with him.
		Would you?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I'd love to.
		As a matter of fact, you know, Barrow Institute does have a foundation, and we do whatever we can to raise money for ongoing research.
		All right.
		I'm sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that'd give him a great reason to be here, wouldn't it?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure we could taunt some of these guys into coming and spending some time with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's do that.
		By all means, all right.
		Hold on.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		This is one for the books, folks.
unidentified		So we're making love.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from December 6th, 2001.
		You know, we could, you know, we could, we could insist on the star.
		It's so easy All we gotta do Every little thing I need Oh, I've been so many places I've seen someplace.
		Yes, I have.
		I know that love is here.
		Yes, it is.
		He's open this world to get me.
		Ain't nothing better, ain't nothing better.
		And all the answers are rocking.
		Love is the same everywhere.
		Just the same now.
		Thank you.
		Knights in white Saturn, never reaching the end.
		Letters I've written, never meaning to send beauty at others with these eyes before just what the truth is.
		I can't say anymore because I love you gazing at people,
		some hand in hand just what I'm doing they can understand some tried to tell you listen to Art Bell somewhere in time tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from December 6th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really dead and gone for an hour.
		A full hour.
		No brainwaves, no blood, no heartbeat.
		Nothing.
		Gone.
		And yet, she was there.
		My guest is Pam Reynolds, and we've got another segment coming up immediately.
		Stay right where you are.
unidentified		Stay right where you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, Pam Reynolds.
		And Pam, explain what the Barrow Institute is.
		What can you tell me about that?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		The Barrow Institute is a full-service neurology institute.
		They do an awful lot of work with the brain.
		The foundation supports, for instance, the Muhammad Ali Parkinson's research.
		Yes.
		Research on epilepsy, anything and everything having to do with the brain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have a number here, too, for so do I. Somebody passed it on to me.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Oh, great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would that number happen to be 1-800-475-7161?
unidentified		Perfect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Or for those who want to contribute online, they can go to my website at pamreynolds.com, click on a message from Pam, and that will give you a link that will take you directly to the contribution page.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me see.
		Do we have PamReynolds.com up there?
		No, we don't.
		Well, we do have Angiogram Image Letter Document.
		Oh, no, we have www.near-death.com, Reynolds.html.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		That's an article that was written by an independent NDE.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		My website is PamReynolds.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pam, I'm looking at the angiogram.
		I should have done this.
		Oh, my God.
		That was it, huh?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		That was it.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Can you imagine a thing like that exploding?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my gosh.
		Folks, if you want to see this, this is astounding to see.
		Go to my website, artl.com.
		Under program, click on tonight's guest info, and then click on angiogram image.
		And first of all, Pam, the first comment I would have is, how could a blood vessel that relatively thin produce something that big without killing you first?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was no vessel.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		That was an artery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, but its relative size in the angiogram is clearly compared to the balloon size.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it's a wonder that I survived long enough to be a beneficiary of this remarkable surgery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would think any jarring of the head would have killed you.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		The slightest tap.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Smokes.
		Oh, this is just a remarkable image.
		People are going to have to get up to the website and see it.
		Yeah?
		Okay, if people call the Barrow Institute, they can what?
		The idea is to contribute or to become part of something?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes, the idea is we have people manning the phones to take contributions for the foundation, and the foundation does fund research.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		The ongoing research, which has to do with all kinds of things, Parkinson's disease, epilepsy, has to do with the brain.
		They're researching it.
		And they are on the cutting edge.
		You can look at my case in cases like mine to know that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As a matter of fact, your case was one of the earliest ones ever, but I understand there have been about 100, which really isn't that many since.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, yours was 10 years ago, so 100 since yours, huh?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Very successful surgeries, I might add.
		People have been returned to relatively normal lives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If they find it.
		Mm-hmm.
		You're going to write a book.
		You're writing a book?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		My book will be available for presentation early in 2002, January, February.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are you going to call it?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure yet.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I'm thinking 15 Seconds that changed my life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That'd be good.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Or maybe Death Experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you probably want a title that pretty much says what happened to you, somehow or another.
		As best you can come up with it.
		I'm sure you'll get lots of suggestions for titles.
		But we'll get, you say it's PamReynolds.com.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Mm-hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Keith, are you listening?
		PamReynolds.com.
		If you'd get the link up, please.
		Okay, to the phones very quickly.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Pam Reynolds.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yes, ma'am.
		I'm calling from Anchorage, Alaska.
		My name is Stephanie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		First, I want to say thanks to you, Art, for doing stuff like this because it is so beneficial to so many of us who are going through stuff like this.
		It's so important that people like us are reached out to us because we feel so alone at times.
		And I'm really jealous of Ramona because she got to you before I did.
		So you all, I was in a car accident in 1969 and I was pronounced dead on the scene and they brought me back to life.
		They took me to JFK Hospital, the same place that they found the anthrax place.
		And they brought me back to life and they kept me, I was in a coma and I got transferred to another hospital, 14 years old.
		But during my coma of two weeks, I got to see Jesus and my dad, who died when I was nine.
		And they told me my work was not done here.
		And I have given birth to six children.
		Oh, my.
		Good for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were sure right about the work not being done.
unidentified		Yeah, the work not being done.
		I have two sons serving in the military right now.
		One's off the coast of Pakistan.
		Hope he hears me now.
		But, I mean, and then the other son, not serving in, he's in the army.
		God bless his soul.
		Because this child was diagnosed 10 years ago with cancer, brain cancer.
		Oh, boy.
		It was temporal lobe.
		And they did brain surgery.
		They got it.
		And he wanted to serve.
		And he left me a year ago in October.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a remarkable story.
		We're talking to an awful lot of lucky people tonight.
		Most people who end up with brain cancer or an embolism like I'm looking at right now on the screen, aye ya, yi, they don't make it.
		So we have to depend on so few like you, Pam, who have been there and have been back.
		I've always been interested, fascinated with near-death experiences, but yours goes way beyond.
		And there's almost no way to deny the obvious.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		If there is a way, I can't find it.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Neither can many, many, many researchers who have given it their best try for 10 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you've thought, I'm sure, heavily about this since, trying to shoot holes in it yourself.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And the reason I waited so long to come out with a book myself is because I wanted to give science every opportunity to explain this thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if I managed to get your doctor on the air, and I asked him, what can you tell me about her ability to describe what went on during the operation in a period of time when she had absolutely no brain waves whatsoever?
		How can you rationalize, how have you rationalized that?
		How can you explain it?
		What do you think he would say?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Well, if I know Dr. Spetzler, he would say there are so many things about the brain that we do not understand, but a lot of these things are knowable, and we're right in the middle of doing an awful lot of relevant research to find out about the brain and how it functions.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And hopefully we'll be able to unlock the door to some of these answers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wonder.
		I mean, the brain is one thing, and many people feel the soul or the spirit, they may be separate or the same, are altogether something else, and maybe they cannot know about that or will not know about that.
		Who knows?
		But I know they are making progress, so maybe they can be answered.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I have a theory about that.
		I believe that the soul plugs into the brain.
		I believe that there is a symbiotic relationship between the soul and the brain.
		I don't think we'll ever really fully understand the nature of the soul on a physical level, but I do believe that the brain is knowable.
		These are things that we can research and understand and find out, and we can use to benefit humanity and cure disease and end suffering.
		And I think if nothing else comes out of my story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the soul might be like a Netscape plug-in.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		That's a very good analogy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know about that.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Pam.
		Hi.
unidentified		Pam?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Arch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, sir.
unidentified		Pam, I'd like to ask a question, if possible.
		You say you were out for the operation for an hour.
		Approximately, how long, or if they told you, how long were you in recovery before you were actually able to speak again?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I spoke immediately.
unidentified		Immediately?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Mm-hmm.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Did the doctor?
unidentified		Did the doctor explain to you how they resuscitated your brain and you didn't have any memory loss at all?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		No, they didn't explain anything to me, but I didn't have any memory loss at all.
unidentified		That's amazing.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		No memory loss, no loss in IQ, no loss in mental function.
unidentified		That is amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that's just amazing.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Even my pitch remained perfect.
unidentified		That is absolutely astounding.
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
unidentified		Thank you very much.
unidentified		Bye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for the call.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Pam Reynolds.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Gary from Redmond.
unidentified		Art, thank you for a most extraordinary interview.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're very welcome.
unidentified		Pam, I must congratulate you.
unidentified		I think you have tremendous strength and courage, and I thank you for coming back to tell us your story.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Gary.
unidentified		I'm impressed by the fact you mentioned the year 2012.
		And as Art knows, the late great Terrence McKenna thought there would be a change of consciousness.
		I'm wondering what else you could tell us about how you arrived at that date, what else you think mankind should do to prepare for what's coming and how we might survive it and what this consciousness change might mean for us.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I can't tell you reasonably how I arrived at that date.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		It's just something that's in me that I know, as if it were engraved in stone and I read it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you recall whether this was something you immediately recalled or did this come to you in the last few years?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		No, no, that was pretty immediate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Immediate.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Pretty immediate that we would have some huge changes around that time.
		And now I tell people, and it's the truth, I'm at a time warp.
		Time really doesn't have any meaning for me.
		So the mere fact that the number stayed with me to me is amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mary, you're a caller.
unidentified		Do you have any idea what this might mean for us on the other side of this chain?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		It means what we make it mean.
		The future is an X variable.
		It's undefined in as much as it's going to be what we make it.
		We can say for a certainty that if we do this, this will happen.
		But I think the reason people like me are given understanding like this is so that we can prepare and make those changes.
		And on the upside, what I'm seeing in our government right now and in the unity of our people right now is uplifting and it helps me sleep at night.
		And I really feel like we're on the right direction to surviving whatever comes at us.
		It might not be so in other countries, but as for America and our citizens, I think we are really getting it.
		We're coming together for the first time in a long time.
		We're standing together in all of our diversity and individuality.
		We're putting aside our differences, and we're standing together for the benefit of our people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a good thing because you apparently see some travails ahead.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I definitely do, but I think we're going to make it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anything?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I think we're going to be fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anything else, caller?
unidentified		Let's hope that's a great opportunity for the whole world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		Thank you very much, and take care.
		First time, caller line, you're on the air with Pam.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Pam.
		Thanks for taking my call.
		I've got a couple questions here for you, Pam, and they're real quick.
		I'll go ahead and ask them and then hang up and listen.
		That's okay.
		You said that you weren't afraid before you went into the operation.
		You weren't afraid to die, but what you were afraid of was leaving your children behind.
		Yes.
		When you were on the other side, did you have any feelings of remorse or sadness or anything like that that you were leaving your children behind at that time?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		No.
		As a matter of fact, when I came back to the body, I'd completely changed my mind.
		I looked at that body and I thought, you know what?
		My kids are going to do fine.
		I'm not getting in that thing.
unidentified		So it's more of a hope and more of a positive type of attitude towards your children.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		Another thing, did you happen to have any feelings of that things, that you had left things undone here in this line on the other side?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that probably went along with you can't go any further than this.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Probably.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I feel like the decision to return was made before I ever went in the first place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, caller, thank you.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Pam Reynolds.
		Hello.
unidentified		How you doing, Ark?
		Pam?
		A couple quick questions.
		Well, actually, just one quick question.
		Pam, did you ever have a sense of animals, like lost pets, pets that you might have lost in your lifetime?
		You know, maybe answer that question, do animals have souls?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		That's a real good question.
		I did not see Tiger.
		I lost my puppy from my childhood after I was married.
		He lived a long time.
		I didn't see him.
		But to be honest with you, I wasn't really thinking about him or expecting to see him.
		So I can't really answer that question, yay or nay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		But my feeling, my gut feeling is they must.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's kind of a qualified nay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you think animals do probably have souls now.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I think anyone who's had a beloved pet can concur with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I do.
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Pam Reynolds.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		Hello?
		Hello.
		Hey, this is Mike.
		I'm calling from Austin, Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Hey, Art, I love your show, man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		You've filled many nights with great entertainment.
		And I just want to say I've had a lot of strange experiences in my life.
		And I've been diagnosed as schizophrenic.
		But right now I'm on antidepressants.
		And I've kind of experienced everything you've talked about, Pam.
		In a couple months' time, I had a lot of sleep deprivation, and I felt like remote viewers were communicating with me and following me around.
		And I about lost my mind, but I didn't.
		And I'm pretty much normal now.
		I'm on antidepressants.
		And I feel the next level that you were going to go to after, you know, you were saying there was more to be seen is that you kind of said it yourself when you said yourselves sensed everything.
		You sensed everything.
		Remember that?
		I feel like pretty much that we will find ourselves alone in the darkness and we will be God and then create our own universe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I want to say something about what he just said.
		He was in another place, obviously, and we have concocted drugs to bring people back to what we call normal.
		But, you know.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Whatever that is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, whatever that is.
		That's right.
		But we're the ones setting up this measuring stick for what normal is, and we have concocted the drugs that will drag somebody back to that point.
		I'm not so sure about this word normal, are you?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		I'm not at all.
		No, I think normal is a huge variable.
		Because all of it, we're not cookie cutter people.
		We are each and every one of us individual, and each and every one of us have our own place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And it's our responsibility to fill that thing that we were here for.
		And it's not, God didn't take a cookie cutter when he made us.
		And there's got to be a reason for that.
		There has to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty comforting.
		This whole thing, this entire program has been really comforting to do it with you.
		Pam, and I have a feeling a lot of other people will feel the same way.
		When your book comes out, you know, most people won't come on the air with this sort of thing until they actually are in the business of promoting their book.
		So when your book does come out, you be really sure and call me, get a hold of me, and I will have you back on the air.
		Would you do that?
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		We would love to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's been the most incredible interview of its type that I've ever done, Pam.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		And it's been nothing but a pleasure for us as well.
		All right.
		Thanks so much for having us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, and good night.
pam reynolds ▲ ● ▼		Good night, dear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that certainly ought to give you all a little something to think about.
		Open lines tomorrow night.
		Maybe a special line, if you suggest one, I don't know.
		For now, from the high desert, I'm Art Bell.

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