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Dec. 6, 2001 - Art Bell

02:46:22

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Near Death Experience - Pam Reynolds

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	Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from December 6th, 2001.
	From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be across this great globe of ours, all 24 time zones considered.
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM, and I don't know where to begin tonight.
	There is so much to talk to you about.
	I guess I'll begin by telling you that next hour, you know, we frequently have, because I guess we're also interested in what lies on the other side, we have guests on the program who have had near-death experiences.
	Tonight, for the first time, we're going to have a guest who really died.
	She really died.
	She had an embolism in her brain.
	She's Pam Reynolds.
	She had an embolism in her brain.
	And a group of very daring surgeons in Phoenix, Arizona brought her to what's known as stand still.
	And what happens is your body is cooled to 58 degrees Fahrenheit.
	The heart stops.
	Most of the blood is drained from body.
	Brainwaves cease.
	In short, you are dead.
	And then they operate and take out the embolism.
	And Pam Reynolds was indeed dead.
	While in that state, if dead is a state, she encountered one of the most remarkable near-death experiences ever documented.
	Now, I think you don't call it near-death.
	I don't see how you can call it near-death.
	Not in this case.
	And so that should be pretty interesting, I would say.
	Coming up next hour now, I'm gonna go ahead and lead the news with this anyway.
	Well, first, I've got an affiliate.
	I guess I better do things in some order, huh?
	We've got a brand new affiliate again tonight.
	It is WKCI in Waynesboro, Virginia.
	970 on the dial.
	It's a good spot on the dial.
	970.
	WKCI in Waynesboro, Virginia.
	I bid you good day, folks.
	The GM there is Chris Zimmerman.
	Hi, Chris.
	And the program director, Steve Kopp.
	Canup.
	That's the way you say it.
	Actually, you pronounce it okay, I guess.
	Canup.
	So, glad to have you on board the ever-growing network just soaring in affiliates.
	Now, I guess I better do this.
	CNN is breaking news right now that Taliban soldiers are said to be giving up their weapons.
	Giving it up.
	Now, these are early reports, and I caution you That you should treat these reports as such.
	It does look like Kandahar is about to fall.
	Unfortunately, there will be Taliban fighters all over the country who will not get the word.
	So just cross your fingers, everybody.
	I guess we might as well go ahead with the rest of the news news, and then I'll drop the bomb on you.
	Mail being processed.
	It looks like they've got the Fed.
	Mail being processed at a facility set up in a courtyard near the Federal Reserve's headquarters.
	that was put there, you know, to test the mail, I'm afraid has found one which has tested positive for anthrax.
	Officials said the positive reading was obtained for a batch of mail containing between a hundred and a hundred and fifty letters and it had not yet been determined if any of the letters actually contained anthrax spores or whether there was some sort of cross-contamination.
	I wonder if the people who wrote these letters There are one of two things going on here.
	Either the cross-contamination thing is something the authorities never figured on, or there's a lot more anthrax letters out there than one was originally led to believe.
	I don't know which it might be.
	Israeli warplanes bombed a police post in Gaza, keeping pressure on Yasser Arafat to arrest yet more.
	So many of the arrests that Arafat makes, you hear it, they say arrests, and what they do is they, you know, give them, well, they put them under house arrest.
	You're gonna have to stay in your house!
	No phone calls!
	And that's an Arafat arrest, by the way.
	We'll see.
	Arafat's gonna have to really get going here.
	U.S.
	Marines went on alert late Thursday and fired mortars around their base in southern Afghanistan to repel what a spokesman said was Nearly certainly an attempt by Taliban forces to probe their defenses.
	Well, they probed all right.
	And now they're probably part of the sticks.
	The U.S.
	is not going to tolerate any arrangement that allows a Taliban leader, Muhammad Omar, to remain free and live in dignity in Afghanistan.
	So we're going to just, we're saying it, we're going to do it, we're going to chase them down, all of them that we want, we're going to get them, and I'm not sure what we're going to do with them, but we're going to get them.
	I wonder what the, don't you wonder what the orders are?
	If they find Osama Bin Laden, what are the real orders, do you think?
	A man opened fire today at the simulated wood factory where he worked, killing a co-worker and wounding several others before committing suicide.
	Another head shaker.
	And now it only took them six months.
	Six months it took the mainstream press to break this.
	I've been keeping track of how long it would take for the mainstream press to finally break this story.
	Tonight they're breaking it.
	I sat straight up a little after nine o'clock watching CNN headline news, and a headline came along that said something to the effect of, Incredible Lost City Found Under the Water Off Cuban Waters, Lost City Found.
	So, there it was.
	CNN is breaking the news.
	MSNBC is breaking the news.
	Reuters is... In fact, here's a Reuters story.
	Long one too.
	Explorers using a miniature submarine to probe the seafloor off the coast of Cuba said on Thursday they had confirmed, underlined confirmed, the discovery of stone structures deep below the ocean surface that may have been built by an unknown human civilization thousands of years ago.
	Researchers with a Canadian exploration company say they filmed Over the summer, ruins of a possible submerged lost city off the Caribbean Islands western tip.
	The researchers cautioned they did not fully understand the nature of their find and plan to return in January for more analysis.
	The explorers said they believed the mysterious structures discovered at the astounding depth of around 2100 feet ...are laid out like an urban area.
	Could have been built at least 6,000 years ago.
	That'd be, of course, 1,500 years earlier than the Great Giza Pyramids of Egypt, but they don't really know how old it is.
	Old, old.
	And tonight, all of these networks are breaking this news.
	And tomorrow, I imagine it will spread, and the big networks will pick it up, and NBC and CBS and ABC will all be running the news.
	So, count them, folks.
	The mainstream press began the break on this news tonight, and that would be just about six months after we broke it here.
	Now, speaking of possible hits, I'm sent the following.
	Hi Art.
	Didn't Ed Dames talk about a fungus?
	Wasn't there something about a fungus spreading, killing lots of trees and other plants?
	Well, if you read the whole article, probably the hair will stand up on the back of your neck as it did mine.
	Note the following.
	Unknown origin.
	The oak disease is caused by a recently named fungal organism called, and I'll spell it for you, P-H-Y-T-O-P-H-T-H-O-R-A.
	R-A-M-O-R-U-M.
	It also attacks a dozen other tree and plant species including rhododendron, huckleberry, honeysuckle, coffeeberry, manzanita, buckeye, big leaf maple, bay laurel, evergreen, and madrone.
	Preliminary tests on the disease indicate that, get this folks, it enters through the bark of plants and trees rather than the roots, as many species do, and travels in, are you ready, travels in raindrops.
	And my faxer continues, and besides other eastern species of oak, who knows what else it kills, eek!
	And you are having Ed Dames on your show very soon.
	Yes, indeed.
	Perhaps he can elucidate.
	I'm sure he can.
	He'll be on the program this coming Monday.
	So, there you have it.
	We've got open lines this hour.
	We've got a lady who died, Pam Reynolds, next hour.
	And the balance of this hour into open lines.
	What a night.
	Well that ought to do it.
	Well that ought to do it.
	That ought to be enough for you to chew on to begin with for the balance of this hour and then Pam Reynolds next hour.
	Boy, I'm looking forward to that.
	Not just close to death.
	Death itself.
	Where was she?
	In fact, you may want to comment on that now.
	I mean, when somebody has no blood, no heartbeat, no brainwaves, they're dead.
	Goodbye, gone, dead.
	58 degrees.
	Way below room temperature.
	Dead, dead, dead.
	Where did she go?
	Where did she go?
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	All right, Bill.
	Good evening.
	How are you, sir?
	I'm okay, sir, and you're in a truck somewhere.
	I'm in a big truck traveling through Kentucky.
	How are you?
	Turn that TV radio off.
	Okay, well, I gotta tell you, God bless you guys.
	You guys have saved me hours on the road.
	You know, I drive a big 37-foot RV from time to time.
	And you guys have saved my butt and kept me out of hours of traffic.
	Well, we're just out here doing the best we can.
	I got a question for you.
	You know, you talk about what are we going to do if we catch Osama bin Laden.
	That's right.
	Obviously, the scumbucket deserves to die, but if we kill him, does that make him a martyr?
	But what if the Northern Alliance gets him?
	Well, what do you think?
	Would the result be the same?
	Would he still be considered a martyr if they prance around the hills of Afghanistan with his head on a stick?
	You raise a very interesting point, and maybe that's exactly the way we're going to handle it.
	Maybe you're going to kind of, you know, wink and turn around and say, Northern Alliance, here you go.
	I sure hope so.
	Either one way or the other, I just think that Maybe that boy should just become a grain of sand.
	Buried underneath a grain of sand.
	Hear, hear.
	Thank you very much, and take care.
	Yeah, he's right, you know.
	That might really solve the whole problem, because we're damned if we do, and damned if we don't.
	You know, like, kill him.
	We're damned if we kill him, and we're damned if we don't.
	Either way, we've got trouble.
	However, as he points out, if the Northern Alliance does the job, well then, That really does change things, doesn't it?
	Killed by, uh, another Afghani.
	Hmm.
	Hmm.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, who's this, Art?
	Uh, I'm the only one here, sir.
	It's the only possibility.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	Alrighty.
	Good.
	You're on the air.
	Well, where are you?
	Uh, hi, Art.
	Yeah, I'm in, uh, on the west coast, uh, SFO country.
	Okay.
	My name's Michael.
	Bay Area.
	Okay, Mike.
	Yeah, great show last night, Dan Aykroyd.
	Oh, yes.
	Yeah, it was fun.
	You've had a lot of great guests.
	And you guys, it seems like you're coming to the same conclusions.
	Yes.
	Well, that's not a magical thing, sir.
	That's just, you know, people who are looking at the kinds of things we do here are coming to the same conclusions because the same evidence trail is being followed.
	Yeah.
	I'm behind it all the way.
	Well, we're kind of losing your cell connection a little bit.
	Oh, I'm sorry about that.
	Cell phone.
	I'm in my RV.
	Oh, you're in an RV.
	Might I suggest to you, get a hold of the Sea Crane Company and get one of the Wilson antennas.
	The Wilson cell antennas.
	I'm telling you, man, it's unbelievable.
	You know, you'll have like no lights at all.
	And you plug in the cell antenna to the bottom of your cell phone.
	You know, an external one, and it goes right up to four lights.
	It's unbelievable.
	Yeah, I've been meaning to do that, and I guess I'm shopping around.
	Thanks for the... Yeah.
	All right, I appreciate the calls.
	You're kind of breaking up there.
	Yeah, it's an amazing antenna, and it makes all the difference between being heard and being heard really well.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	How you doing, Art Bell?
	I'm doing okay, sir.
	Uh, where are you?
	Uh, Memphis, Tennessee.
	Uh, Memphis.
	Okay.
	What can I do for you?
	Uh, well, I want to tell you something.
	Y'all be talking about aliens all the time.
	Well, this is what I want to tell you.
	Uh, you ever heard about, um, the North Pole?
	That's supposed to be the, uh, paradise within, within all that ice up there?
	A paradise under the ice?
	No, it's not under the ice.
	Oh, have I heard of... Oh, you mean a little strange area at the North Pole where there's like an oasis, that kind of thing?
	Yeah, like a... Yeah, you heard of that?
	Well, I've heard about it.
	I don't know if it's myth.
	Sounds like it would be myth, because I don't know how you would have such a different climate in just one little spot at the Pole, near the Pole.
	Well, a long time ago with the...
	I'm trying to think of what they call it, the North Wind, the South Wind, something like that, where a long time ago when the North Wind, or when one of those winds hit down in the middle of the Earth, one of the stars from outer space fell down in the middle of the Earth.
	Oh, well, I don't know about that.
	I can imagine the following.
	That I suppose there could be, you know, as we have underground hot springs, right?
	And we have a volcanic activity that occurs under the ground, maybe even there at the pole.
	And I suppose that one time long ago, somebody might have found a small subtropical or almost tropical area within the area of the pole.
	That was receiving its virtual immediate climate from some sort of ground heat.
	That's interesting.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Edson, E-D-S-O-N, Edson.
	And I'm in a place called Southern California, which is just outside of Los Angeles.
	I've heard of that.
	Yeah, well, it's next to Tohono O'odham, which is a UFO area.
	Yes.
	And, um, I just saw something strange the other day, and it might be related to UFOs.
	I hope it is.
	I hope it doesn't have anything to do with the anthrax, but, um, it was a nice clear day, and, uh, there was one cloud in the sky over the mountains, and I watched it, and then these two strange aircraft flew by.
	They were real, uh, they're almost enamel-like, you know, uh, shiny white.
	Yes.
	They had a red stripe on their tail, on a big, high, They look like crop dusters, so that's what worried me.
	And this cloud just disintegrated right in front of my face.
	It must have been 300 feet long.
	And this black stuff came out of it.
	Black?
	Oh, wait a minute.
	Black stuff came out of the disintegrating cloud?
	Yeah.
	Definitely bad.
	Definitely bad, and I haven't... I mean, did the black stuff fall to ground?
	It sure looked like it, yeah, on the mountaintop.
	Macro.
	Kind of worried.
	I look for UFOs all the time because this is an area where you look for UFOs.
	Well, I guess in a way there could have been unidentified objects as you described, but they did sound like fairly conventional aircraft, just with strange markings, but definitely clouds turning black and then falling down.
	That's definitely a new one.
	Let me ask something else.
	I haven't heard about this, and I know he wasn't very popular with him, but what do you think about the death of William Cooper, Bill Cooper?
	Well, I think he's dead.
	I think that... What's to think?
	You know, as you know, I was never a big fan of Bill Cooper, so I would not want to speak ill of the dead, and I shall not.
	I think he shot at, what, a deputy sheriff or something?
	And, uh, hit him in the head and they shot back and killed Bill Cooper, and that's the way I heard the story, so... What can I say?
	I'm Art Bell.
	I'll say that, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from December 6th, 2001.
	So long, so long Listen to the strangest stories
	Wondering where it all went wrong For so long, so long
	Hold on, hold on, hold on to what you've got you
	you Hold on, hold on, hold on to what you've got.
	Hold on to what you've got I'm dreaming of a new tomorrow
	I'm dreaming of a new tomorrow Out on the street I was talking to a man
	He said, so much for this love of mine That I don't understand
	You shouldn't worry after that, ain't no crime Cause if you get it wrong, you'll get it right next time
	You need direction, you need a name When you're standing across from a stupid highway bus
	station After a while you'll get to recognize the sign
	So if you get it wrong, you'll get it right next time It is, and I am so pleased to see the Cuban story after about half a year finally breaking in the mainstream press.
	Check it out yourself.
	I think Keith is beginning to get a lot of the links up from the various news services that I told you about.
	And you know, I wonder, I really wonder how this is going to... I mean, I know all of you are listeners here, and so you've known about this for a long time, but how do you think this is going to settle in, this news, on the general public?
	That's a really important question.
	How do you think the rest of the world is going to handle this news?
	That what we thought we knew about how it all began, well, that might just not be the way it all began.
	It's going to be fascinating, fascinating to follow.
	Now, tomorrow night is Friday night, Saturday night.
	That's open lines.
	Now, I am interested always in special lines.
	You know I have a propensity for opening a special line every now and then?
	For this or that.
	And tomorrow night I might be inclined to do that if one of you makes a really good suggestion about the kind of line to open.
	Not sure what kind of mood I'm in.
	But there ought to be an interesting line to open, I would think, tomorrow night, a special line.
	So, if you have a suggestion about a special line you would particularly enjoy, I can think of so many.
	Make it to me in email at artbell.com, or artbell at mindspring.com.
	Artbell at mindspring.com.
	Maybe I will select one of the entries and we will have some sort of special line, or just open lines tomorrow night, I don't know.
	Anyway, I do enjoy the open line segments as we have right now.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Oh, hi there, Art.
	This is Ben in the District, Columbia.
	DC, huh?
	Welcome.
	Well, thank you.
	Thank you.
	I think we got as hot a weather here as you have out there in the desert.
	Well, I'll bet it's even hotter.
	What is your present temperature, is a medical curiosity.
	Let's see.
	It got up to about almost 73 degrees today.
	It only made it to the 50s here near Death Valley, and presently, as I look up, it's 33.8 degrees.
	Oh my goodness.
	Well, we're a lot hotter than you are anyway.
	Listen, I've heard you talk about a lot of subjects over the past, I guess I've been listening for a year, year and a half.
	Yes, sir.
	But one of the things I've never heard you talk about is the evil eye.
	Oh, yes I have.
	Oh, you have?
	To me, the evil eye is the red, glowing evil eye.
	No, no, no.
	This is what people in Turkey and Greece, in that part of the world, they believe in.
	It's kind of the opposite of a miracle, where you can put a hoax on somebody.
	More like a curse, actually.
	Well, that's what it is.
	And even where talisman over there, And they're a little lie, and they're supposed to ward off the evil eye.
	Or to have something to do with that.
	But I've just never heard anybody talk about that.
	And it's very... I lived there for about 13 years.
	Plus it's because we caught something else here.
	Here we have gypsies and others who can place a curse on you.
	Well, I think it's kind of an interesting subject, and I can't contribute to it.
	I really don't know anything about it.
	I've heard a lot about it.
	Well, I have guests like Dr. Evelyn Paglini, and she'll tell you about curses.
	She'll sure tell you about curses.
	We'll have her on again.
	We've done shows with her on this subject.
	It's curses.
	Same deal.
	Curses.
	Well, yes.
	I guess it is, too.
	It's magic.
	Yeah.
	But anyway.
	Anyway, I thought it would contribute something toward this, but if you've had it on already, well... Oh no, it's a fine subject.
	It's just fine.
	It's called the evil eye there, well... It's a curse.
	Another way of putting a curse on you.
	Well, we also did something on just evil eyes.
	Remember that?
	And I had people submit evil eyes.
	And they submitted evil, glowing, red eyes.
	Oh, we've got some real doozies.
	Had them up on the website.
	Probably still there.
	If you go up there under search and put evil eye, will you see what you see?
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Good morning, Mr. Bell.
	Good morning.
	This is Brian Vee.
	I'm in East Tennessee.
	Welcome.
	Where it's much warmer than where you are as well.
	I know.
	Everywhere should be cold.
	It's warmer than it is here.
	There's usually snow up there by now, on the mountains, and there's nothing.
	Our weather is changing.
	It's bizarre.
	I don't like it.
	The reason I called you, I was having fits.
	I saw the neatest program that went off just before your show came on, on TLC, and it was called Atlantis in the Andes.
	In the Andes, huh?
	Well, they had this guy, and he wrote a book.
	I guess that could be called Atlantis Risen.
	Well... Well, yeah.
	The way that they had it, I'm gonna have to buy this man's book.
	It's on my Christmas list now.
	If anybody's listening, it's on my Christmas list.
	But he's a cartographer.
	Yes.
	And he used his knowledge and maps and everything to kind of correlate what would fit with the description of Atlantis.
	Um, you know, and he decided on, he went with the plane, the rectangular plane that is referred to, the big rectangular plane, but it's higher than the sea level, and then there's mountains on the other end of that, and he's putting that in Bolivia, okay?
	And this is what really got me, was the name Atlantis, he's broken it down into two Native American word.
	One is Mayan, and I didn't catch the other one.
	But one is atoll, which is water, and antith, which is copper.
	I thought atoll was island.
	No, atoll.
	A-T-L.
	Oh, okay.
	Not atoll.
	Atoll.
	And another thing that really led him over to South America was the reference to Oricalcum, which is a particular Alloy, a natural alloy of gold tin and copper, I think.
	Right.
	And the only place where that is, is in South America.
	And he went through all his stuff, and they have a... Well, then maybe it's not so surprising, if you just follow across from South or Central America into the Caribbean, that they're making this find.
	Right!
	Right!
	But there's a city called Tiwanaku that looks just amazing, and they've only excavated like 3.5% of it.
	And they found in it things to fasten blocks of stone together made of copper and nickel alloy.
	To make that, you have to have temperatures of 3,500 degrees.
	And we couldn't do that until the 1930s.
	Oh, to be sure.
	Oh, listen.
	There were civilizations here before.
	Absolutely.
	And they had technology that we have not yet relearned.
	Absolutely.
	This was an amazing program and I'm going to buy this book and I think that you should think about having this gentleman on your program.
	Alright, get me some contact info and I'll see what I can do.
	Happy to.
	I have this feeling that these fines now are going to begin popping up all over the world.
	And this thing off Cuba is so significant and so big.
	That the mainstream science world is not going to be able to ignore it, and so they're going to begin heaving and riffing and having a big problem, but in the end they'll make it.
	The science world is going to have the hardest time with this.
	Believe it or not, all of you are going to have a much easier time than they will.
	Because there are little paradigms, there Papers, their funding, all depend on basically what they have written about what they believe to be true.
	If it's not true, then all of that other stuff, that important stuff to them, is threatened.
	So they're not going to have an easy time of this.
	The average person will do pretty well, I think.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	This is Dan, talking from 580 AM, Augusta, Georgia.
	Well, welcome, welcome.
	How you doing this evening?
	I'm just fine, sir.
	This could be called a near-death experience.
	A friend of mine was thrown from a car with head injuries, etc., and we took her to the hospital.
	They said she was stable, and they checked her out and everything, and they had her in a room.
	They had already checked her into a room.
	While she was in there, she died.
	The nurse said they had to wheel her down the hallway, which was I forget how many feet, To another room where they were going to resuscitate her.
	It was where the other equipment was.
	And when they did, they resuscitated her and she said, I was above my body the whole time.
	And they said, well we don't believe that.
	She said, I'll name 27 different instances that happened in that hallway.
	Not conversations, but things that happened while I was dead.
	And she did and to this day they just said, we don't understand and wrote it off.
	But, I mean, she asked her, did you see anything?
	She said, no, I was just there above my body.
	I knew everything that went on around me.
	She said, I saw it in other rooms, even.
	Rooms, and they even checked on it, and they said, yeah, that's what happened.
	They put this in this drawer, and this, whatever.
	There are thousands, tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of stories like that.
	You know who I've got coming on, right, at the top of the hour?
	Right.
	I've had a lot of NDEs, like the one you're describing.
	You know, where you stop breathing, or even the heart stops, but where you are really dead, dead, dead, brainwaves cease.
	Now, most neurologists, I think, use brainwaves as a measure of, you know, the final wisps of life, right?
	Right.
	And when all that's gone, and all the blood's out of your body, and your heart stops, and you're at 58 degrees, you are really dead.
	Can I answer one question for you?
	Yeah, if you can tell me where she was.
	No, I was going to tell you a question.
	The answer is here.
	Okay, you talked one day about the premonition you had when somebody hit your car.
	That's right.
	I did your birthday one day.
	I heard parts of it, you conversing with somebody when your birthday was.
	I remember two numbers that you have in numerology is a seven and an eight.
	Your seven, what makes you sensitive?
	Sevens are psychic.
	You have a psychic ability.
	You are sensitive to all mankind and your surroundings.
	The only thing that gets in the way is your eight, trying to keep your money straight.
	I missed that.
	What gets in the way?
	Your eight.
	My number eight gets in the way.
	Right.
	You have three numbers for the three parts of your personality which you were born with.
	I have actually never much, you know, this really goes against a lot of grains.
	I've never much given a damn for money.
	No, no, no.
	It's not giving a damn.
	I'm saying that's my attitude about money.
	It's really nice.
	That it comes, but I never saw it.
	Organizing it, running it through your head, you know, do we have this, that?
	What it is, is it just organized people as far as, not to give a damn about it, like having lots of it, but I'm talking about just, you know, keeping it straight and everything else.
	I'm well, okay, thank you.
	I'm not even good at that, really.
	You know, my wife is the financial gatekeeper, and for me, it's like, hey, do we have enough?
	Oh, cool, okay.
	That's how much I care about money.
	Like, do we have enough?
	We're not concerned, are we?
	Things are okay.
	We have enough?
	Okay.
	And I don't want to know more than that.
	Not really.
	That's always been, as long as there's enough.
	I've always wondered about people who go after money as the goal.
	I mean, their goal is to collect money.
	To get money.
	Seems so damn boring.
	I mean, you die and what do you have?
	You have just money left.
	I mean, I suppose to go to relatives or whatever.
	But you just have lots of money left.
	You didn't spend it helping people or enjoying life or pursuing some higher goal or something.
	Otherwise, just to collect money for the sake of collecting money is just ludicrous to me.
	But there are many, many people I understand who do that, and it's their thing, I guess.
	West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hi, Art.
	How are you doing?
	Okay.
	This is Eric calling from Los Angeles.
	Yes, sir.
	And, man, I sure know a lot of people like those that you've just described here in L.A.
	Yeah, L.A.
	would be a capital of seekers' old money.
	You sure can't take it with you.
	Anyway, I'll get to my point.
	I, like you, prior to September 11th, had some very interesting things happen to me, and I remember you talking about that, about certain feelings that you had.
	And, you know, I tend to be a very I'm not that special.
	You're not that special.
	and I have a pretty positive attitude most of the time and just for you know
	from like August mid-August until September 11th I just I couldn't break
	out of this funk that I was in and that just that that sort of thing just does
	not happen to me I'm not that special you're not that special I think that the
	whole thing at Princeton proves it there's some sort of mass understanding
	Yeah, for two weeks before, and I kept saying every night, I'm telling you, man, something big is coming.
	I can feel it.
	I just feel this pending doom.
	And I kept saying it, and boom, there it was.
	That's not to say I predicted it.
	I just felt a mass whatever it was we all felt.
	Yeah, exactly.
	And I felt the same thing.
	And here's why I'm calling.
	I'm starting to freak out again, and I'm starting to feel this again.
	I know.
	You know, here's the thing.
	What I've noticed lately is, you know, for the last month or since September 11th, we've had this great upspringing of instant patriotism and people flying flags and being nice to each other on the surface.
	But underneath, I think people, you know, out on the street, people are really on edge, really cranky.
	I hear horns honking a whole lot more than I used to.
	And, you know, the flags are starting to go away, and I think we're starting to, you know, return to normal.
	And I'm just waiting for these people.
	You're seeing shorter tempers.
	Oh, absolutely.
	Yeah, me too.
	Absolutely.
	But my concern, and, you know, I think they're waiting for us to get back to normal and become totally... Complacent.
	Exactly.
	And then they're going to hit us again.
	And I hope to God we can get it together before that happens.
	Well, I do think a lot of people are concluding that we're kicking Taliban ass right now and it'll be over.
	No, no, no.
	No, I don't think the Taliban is our problem.
	This is a worldwide organization.
	Absolutely, absolutely.
	And about Osama bin Laden, I think I don't want to see him executed.
	Because he gets off too easy that way.
	I would like to see, and I know we obviously don't want to make him into a martyr.
	We certainly don't want to turn him into a political prisoner where people can take hostages and do things like that and demand his release.
	But there's got to be some way.
	And I don't think we want to go for the pig juice or the turning him into a woman thing.
	There's a lot going on right now.
	But I just think it's like in a lot of these people on death row, if they deserve to be there, once they're gone, their suffering is over, but the suffering that they've created lives on.
	Well, maybe.
	We've had a lot of debate about that.
	I had a guest on last night, and the night before, who was saying that basically, if you're a bad person in life, and this really got to me.
	You continue to be a bad person in death.
	In other words, you are a ghost with criminal attitude, and you attack people and do that kind of thing in the afterlife.
	That certainly makes a lot of sense to me.
	But it doesn't seem right.
	I'm looking for punishment over there, not a continuation of evil ways.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Well, my spirit... He's just the head of the serpent.
	That's all he is.
	And if we chop that head off another one, We'll spread them into place.
	Appreciate your call, sir.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi Art.
	Hello.
	Hi, my name is Russell.
	I live in Homol.
	Homol.
	And I'm an aspiring writer and I channel spiritual information.
	You channel it, huh?
	I channel it from the land that I live on, the sacred ground here.
	So it's the land that talks to you?
	It's the land that communicates with me when I'm in a certain state.
	And what does the land typically tell you?
	It tells me stories, and that's why I'm an author now.
	It's over the past ten years.
	But what kind of stories?
	History stories, what their life was like, and what first contact was like here in San Diego.
	And I want to thank you for inspiring the main character of the book.
	He is a talk radio show host, and that enabled him to present many different ideas at the same time.
	Yes.
	And it's a beautiful story.
	It's a story that needs to be told.
	What is your talk host's name?
	His name is Zane Emerson Waldo.
	Zane Emerson Waldo?
	Emerson Waldo, yes.
	The name of the novel is The Sage Harvester.
	Okay, you got your plug in.
	Oh, the stories that dirt can tell.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hi, Art Bell.
	How you doing?
	I'm okay, sir.
	Right.
	This is Damien in Pomona, California.
	Damien.
	Yeah.
	Evil name.
	Actually, I've made a joke about it.
	If I ever get a tattoo, I know where it's going to be.
	I don't want to know.
	Underneath my hairline.
	Oh, I see.
	Okay.
	Oh, okay.
	You know, that would be pretty cool.
	I mean, you could show that to people and they'd back off.
	Yeah.
	Anyway, to get to the point, because I know that we're getting close to the break.
	We are.
	Okay, well, first off, I wanted to ask you about Stephen Greer, and I remember that at one point someone called up recently, and he said that, you know, he was asking when you were going to have him back on the show, and your response was something like that he ran into some kind of wall or something?
	No.
	No, no, no, no.
	Stephen Greer has been on tour, and I will surely have him on again soon, I'm sure.
	Generally, when Stephen has something he wants to say, he contacts me.
	That's the way it works.
	I don't have him on just to have him on.
	When Stephen Greer comes on, sir, he's usually got big-time breaking news, and so that's what generally Causes me to say, let's do a show with Stephen Greer.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	Here's that evil eye look.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from December 6th, 2001.
	So I came into you, sweet lady.
	And she's been your mystical girl.
	Crystal ball on the table Showing the future to the past
	Same cat with them The future is now
	The future is now The future is now
	The future is now I'm a bird.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from December 6th, 2001.
	There are some rides you might not wish to take, like the one Pam Reynolds took.
	Pam Reynolds is coming up in a moment.
	She's a practicing musician, wife and mother of three, and a member of a very prominent music publishing family.
	In 1991, she underwent one of the most fantastic surgical procedures ever performed.
	Dr. Robert F. Spetzler, director of the Barrow Institute for Neurology in Phoenix, Arizona, and his team of daring surgeons, clipped an aneurysm in her brain by a process known as, in quotes, stand still.
	Her body was cooled to 58 degrees Fahrenheit.
	Her heart stopped.
	Most of her blood drained from her body.
	In short, Pam Reynolds was dead.
	While in this state, she encountered one of the most remarkable near-death experiences ever documented.
	Or was it a death experience, actually?
	Ten years later, hers remains the most scientifically documented case on record.
	48 hours did a story on her.
	You may have seen that.
	48 hours, though an in-depth magazine show would never in the world have the sort of time that we have to cover a story of this magnitude.
	So coming up, that's exactly what we'll do.
	And now, here is Pam Reynolds.
	Hi, Pam.
	Hi, Art.
	Are you actually in Atlanta, Georgia?
	Yes, I am.
	You're in Atlanta.
	Well, I can hear the Atlanta in you.
	Can't take the country out of the girl.
	You've got a little bit of a cold, you told me.
	Yeah, a little bit.
	Well, sorry to hear that.
	But we'll be okay.
	We'll get through it.
	Well, after what you've been through.
	Really, it's a little thing.
	I guess I don't even know where to begin here.
	I guess it would be appropriate to ask you how you discovered I mean, how do you know that you have an aneurysm in your brain?
	Well, I was very lucky.
	Most people don't.
	They go about their lives... And they just die.
	Exactly.
	It just explodes on them.
	An aneurysm, we should tell people who might not know, is... What is an aneurysm?
	Well, it's a ballooning of the vein or artery where the wall of the artery becomes very thin, like the wall of a tire.
	And it'll bubble out.
	And eventually explode.
	Of course, flooding the vital organ with blood.
	And that's certain death.
	And you would virtually die instantly, almost, I think.
	Exactly.
	So, somehow, in your case, they discovered you had this.
	How?
	Well, I had excruciating headaches for about ten years.
	And was first diagnosed with migraine syndrome.
	Ten years?
	Ten years.
	My God.
	And finally, I began to lose the ability to speak and comprehend language, which indicates immediately something's wrong with the brain.
	My physician had an angiogram ordered, and lo and behold, on that very same day, we found it.
	How did he break that news to you?
	I mean, telling somebody they've got an aneurysm in their brain cannot be an easy chore for any doctor.
	No, especially this one.
	This is my physician that I grew up with.
	Not only was mine an aneurysm, but mine was a giant basilar tip aneurysm, which is in the artery, the main artery in the brain.
	Oh, brother.
	Uh-huh.
	So it would be a big bang.
	Oh, yeah.
	So, I mean, really, you sat down, no doubt he did what, an MRI or something?
	Well, no.
	Back then, MRIs were not the thing.
	We had a CAT scan.
	CAT scan, okay.
	He did a CAT scan.
	He got the results and he sat you down.
	And how did he tell you this?
	Well, really, he didn't sit me down.
	He ordered me back into the office.
	And when I returned to his office, it was virtually vacated but for him and a couple of the nurses I'd also grown up with.
	And he hugged me first and I had a lot of trouble talking.
	Boy, you've got a good doctor.
	Oh, I had a fabulous physician.
	Still do.
	He's a wonderful man.
	And so anyway, he hugged you.
	Mm-hmm.
	He hugged me.
	And in a very broken tone.
	You've got to know it's bad news when your doctor hugs you first out.
	Oh, yeah.
	Well, I knew by the look on his face that it wasn't good news.
	Yeah.
	It was just instantaneous.
	And he told me that this was very serious.
	Of course, I had no idea what an aneurysm was.
	And this is in July of 1991 and by August I was at Barrow Institute having it removed.
	Well now, the aneurysm, you said you had headaches, terrible headaches for a decade, ten years.
	Right.
	So that must mean, I've never heard of such a, I mean what do I know about aneurysms, but that's awfully slow.
	It must have been just slowly getting bigger and bigger and bigger and making your symptoms more severe.
	Exactly.
	Oh, yi, yi, yi, yi.
	And we weren't sure that the aneurysm caused the pain until the aneurysm had been clipped and the pain
	disappeared.
	Sure.
	There was still a good possibility that it was migraine pain.
	But I guess he, well, what did he tell you, or what I guess you then, of course, went to specialists.
	And they began to tell you, what did they say your chances were?
	Virtually zero.
	Zero?
	Mm-hmm.
	Did you better get your affairs in order of speech?
	Exactly.
	I got in the car, left the last specialist, and my husband and I got in the car and went immediately to our attorney's office for the filing of my last will and testament.
	Oh, my.
	And the dispensation of our three children, who are, of course, my eldest was 12, and my baby was 7, not quite 8.
	How did you face How did you handle the news and the prospect that you were going to die?
	I think I was in a state of shock, and thank God for shock, because in my case it allowed me to very easily go through the motions of getting things taken care of.
	I wasn't so concerned with myself as I was for my children.
	How old were your children at the time?
	My baby was 7 and my oldest child had just turned 12.
	Oh my.
	They were pretty small.
	Yeah.
	Pretty small.
	And to tell them?
	Oh yes, absolutely.
	I had no idea how to tell my children.
	Did you sit them all down together and tell them?
	Yes I did.
	Oh brother.
	I explained to them that I would be making a journey.
	And they could not go this time, but I would see them.
	And no matter what happened, even though I couldn't physically be here, I would always be here with them emotionally.
	They couldn't see me, but I could see them.
	You know I believe that?
	I did, too.
	I still do.
	I still believe it.
	I still believe it.
	At any rate, It must have been rough, I mean, to lay that on your children.
	Did they handle it?
	Not very well.
	Naturally, they became very clingy.
	My oldest son and my middle daughter were convinced that I was like a cat with nine lives.
	Really?
	Oh, yes.
	My middle daughter told me, well, Mom, if you die, you'll be back, right?
	Like a cat.
	Like a cat, yeah.
	The truth be told, I don't think they accepted it.
	How about your husband?
	Oh, my husband was devastated.
	There was no talking to him, no dealing with him.
	He just walked around in circles and had no earthly idea what to do.
	It's unimaginable.
	The way my wife and I are, as close as we are, it's unimaginable to lose her.
	Well, the aneurysm had already begun to rupture.
	sort of notification that you're about. That's just too much. So did your personal doctor
	give you any... Well listen, we're going to estimate you've got weeks or months or a year
	to live. What did he tell you?
	Well, the aneurysm had already begun to rupture. We had bleeding in the brain, which was causing
	the loss of speech and the inability to comprehend language.
	He told me in cases such as these, I would be lucky to see a month.
	Lucky for a month?
	But any attempt to go in and surgically clip the aneurysm would be certain death.
	And his advice to me was to take what I had.
	Take your time.
	Exactly.
	And thank God for it.
	And let things happen as they happened.
	Obviously, you didn't stop there.
	Now, how did you get on to this Dr. Spessler and the Barrow Institute?
	I mean, you must have been in the middle of knowing it was over and yet still trying to reach out for anything.
	How did you get on to this?
	Well, we got real blessed at that point in time.
	My mother was a physician's assistant for many years until she retired.
	Many of my dearest friends are physicians and have been all of my life.
	And I heard this incredible story about a doctor who was performing this daring surgery whereby they literally put the body in a state of stasis, draining all the blood, taking the temperature down to 58 degrees Fahrenheit, stopping the heart, no brainwaves.
	No brainwaves.
	No brainwaves.
	And in that state of stasis, the aneurysm shrinks.
	No blood in the brain, no blood in the aneurysm.
	Well sure, no blood, nothing in the aneurysm, so it just shrinks, shrivels right up.
	Exactly.
	So that enabled him to then go in safely with no pressure on the brain.
	What was your age then?
	I was 35 years old.
	Oh God, 35.
	Yes, and a very young 35.
	Oh my.
	So it was tough.
	And a very young 35.
	Oh my.
	So, it was tough.
	So you heard about this.
	Mm-hmm.
	And did what?
	Made a call?
	Yes, we immediately contacted Barrow Institute and sent our records out and I was found to be an extremely good candidate for the surgery because in every other way I was perfectly healthy and very strong.
	And young?
	Yes.
	I would think you would be a very good candidate.
	Right.
	How much of a distress?
	So you went out and visited them, I take it?
	They invited you out, said, yeah, you're in Canada, come on out, we want to see you.
	Right.
	I went in to see Dr. Spetzler on a Wednesday and had surgery on a Thursday.
	Holy mackerel!
	And I didn't have a very good comprehension of what they were going to do to me.
	I knew the heart would stop.
	But in terms of the draining of the blood, the cooling of the body... He didn't lay all that out?
	He may have, but I really didn't comprehend it.
	Maybe you didn't exactly want to hear that either.
	Exactly.
	I think that's a very good way to put it.
	What did he tell you about the risks that you were at?
	I mean, surely he at least explained what the probabilities for success were and that you might not make it through.
	Well, on a personal level, he promised he'd get me back.
	He did?
	Wholeheartedly, this man has a very, very strong ability to win confidence.
	He himself is a very confident person.
	As we consider our heads and our brains, where in your brain was this?
	It was in the circle of Willis.
	A place where my physician tells me that a very few short years ago, no one dared to go because... I don't know where that is.
	Is that toward the central part of your brain?
	Right in the middle of the brain.
	In the middle of the brain?
	Right.
	So if it went, all my functions went with it.
	It's a very, very dangerous procedure.
	And Dr. Spetzler said that he only did this as a last-ditch effort to save a life.
	Did he tell you how many times he had performed this previously?
	Not very many.
	I was pretty early in the list.
	This was back in 1991.
	Oh, boy.
	But you know, it's funny what we'll do when we have no choice.
	Well, there was the other option, but that's no option, really.
	Exactly.
	Nevertheless, though, I mean, you're balancing the possibility of another month of life against the possibility of death on the operating table, and I'm sure you and your husband talked that one over.
	You know, really we didn't spend a lot of time with that because with the surgical procedure, we felt like we had an opportunity to live out the entire lifetime.
	So we didn't really look at it as another month of life or death on the table.
	No decision to make, you were just going to go for it.
	Right, exactly.
	But again, Dr. Spetzler is very, he's downright inspirational in his personal discipline.
	I've got a great story about what really made me believe that he could do this job.
	Let's hear it.
	Dr. Spetzler is a classical musician.
	Right away, I related to him and understood him.
	I heard music laughing down the hall as I sat in the waiting room.
	I asked one of his fellows if that was a live recording.
	He said, no, that's Dr. Spetzler.
	He plays to keep his hands loose and to stay in shape.
	and the dynamics and the sense of touch.
	Wow.
	And it was just absolutely incredible.
	And as a trained musician, growing up in it all of my life, I knew that any hands could do what those could.
	Those hands were so controlled and the dynamics were incredible.
	Yes, and he was personally very compelling.
	Oh, well, yes.
	Was he one of the pioneers to do this kind of operation?
	I believe he is THE pioneer to do this kind of operation.
	THE pioneer?
	Well, I guess if you're going to do something like this, you'd like to be with the one who knows the most about it.
	Absolutely.
	That would be good, yes.
	And imagine the nerve, the sheer nerve it would take to put a body through that process.
	Every time he does it, he lays himself on the line 100%.
	I bet you had to sign a lot of releases, huh?
	Pretty good many, yes.
	Now, when you went down there to talk to him, was your expectation that you were going to have this operation right away, or did you just think you were going to go see him and maybe have some tests and that sort of thing and then come home and then maybe come back and have the operation?
	I mean, it was like the next day.
	No, I knew that I was in a very precarious situation.
	And that a matter of 24 hours could mean life or death for me.
	So immediately, as soon as he could get me in, he did that.
	And I knew, I had no doubt in my mind that I would be put in immediately.
	What was the last period of time before the anesthetic hit you that you spent with your husband?
	What was that like?
	Well, they came into my home to visit with me for a moment before they wheeled me into the OR.
	And it was just hugs and kisses and see you on the other side.
	And that was pretty much it.
	The other side of the operation or the other side?
	The other side of the operation.
	Another peculiar thing about this, many members of my family were with me.
	And no one had any doubt in their mind that everything would be fine.
	Listen, I'm going to ask a lot of questions through this, and if at any time you don't want to, if it's too personal, you can tell me to go climb a tree, okay?
	Well, guess what?
	I'm good at that.
	All right, good.
	Good, because I just, you know, what you went through is so incredible that I really want to fully understand it, and I can only do that by, I guess, understanding the mood.
	So you went, I understand it's really important.
	Did somebody go into an operation like this with a lot of confidence, a lot of hope, a lot of, you know, good feelings and not negativity?
	Exactly.
	In fact, I promised Dr. Spetzler that I would work with him 100%.
	And that if he'd just make sure and get the body back, I'd do the rest.
	Does he also believe in that, that a positive attitude is really important for a surgical positive result?
	Yes, he does.
	He certainly does.
	So, that was it.
	They rolled you in, and even though you didn't completely understand what they were going to do, you did at least understand your heart was going to come to a stop.
	Right.
	He promised me that that would be a temporary situation.
	He promised me he'd get me back.
	And I believed him.
	I believed him.
	He believed.
	I believed.
	But still, he didn't give you the downside risk?
	He didn't tell you anything at all?
	Yes, he did.
	You know, when we go into the hospital for a tonsillectomy, one of the things that is on your release form is death.
	There's a possibility of death?
	Certainly.
	Alright, I want to follow up on this.
	Hold on, we're at the bottom of the hour already.
	My guest is a remarkable woman, Pam Reynolds.
	And she didn't get near death, she died.
	I'm Art Bell.
	We've got quite a story to hear.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from December 6,
	2001.
	I'm trying hard to recreate what's yet to be created. Once in her life, she musters a smile for his nostalgic tear.
	Never coming near what he wanted to say, only to realize it never really was. She had a place in his life.
	He never made her stay true, and she rises to her apology.
	Anybody else would surely know.
	Until the wind and the sun and the rain.
	Come on, baby.
	Baby, take my hand.
	Baby, I say, I'm so come on baby, don't feel the reason.
	Baby, take my hand, don't feel the reason. We'll be able to fly, don't feel the reason. Baby, I'm coming.
	La la la la la la la. La la la la la la la.
	La la la la la la la. La la la la la la la.
	Tonight's program originally aired December 6th, 2001.
	And we've got Pam Reynolds, who died.
	There's no other way to put this.
	If your brain waves have stopped, the measurement most neurologists use for death, you're gone.
	Heart stopped.
	Blood out of your body.
	That's it.
	You're dead.
	For a period of time.
	Body temperature lowered down to As Rush would say, way down below room temperature.
	What a procedure!
	And we've got her right here tonight.
	more coming up once again from Atlanta Georgia
	here is Pam Reynolds Pam, welcome back.
	Thank you, Mark.
	Alright, again, we're on this risk thing, and even though he gave you great amounts of confidence, and I understand why he would want to do that, and why it would be good for you, nevertheless, at some point he had a responsibility, I think, to explain to you that there was a pretty serious risk.
	Yes, he did.
	This is not something that you would perform on a daily basis.
	or any old aneurysm.
	This is absolutely a last ditch effort to save a life.
	Yeah.
	And it's only used as a last ditch effort.
	And that's how he laid it out.
	Oh, exactly.
	And he did explain.
	I think my ability to comprehend was just not up to speed.
	Because remember, this is a very unusual procedure.
	How out of it were you?
	I mean, you said your speech was deteriorated.
	It must have been affecting your thinking process as well.
	Well, the pain was affecting my thinking process.
	I had such intense pain that focus was difficult.
	A lot of people who are in that much pain say, well, we might as well fix it because I can't live like this.
	Right.
	It was to that point?
	It was beyond that point.
	It was way beyond that point.
	I was so blessed to be in that position at that time.
	So they prepped you very quickly, obviously, and they took you into surgery.
	Now again, please don't take this as insensitive, but brain surgery is a pretty strange thing.
	They have drills, and they have saws, and they have... You know, it takes a lot.
	It's like a big coconut trying to get into a human brain, I think.
	Exactly.
	And they've got to more or less saw the sucker open.
	Mm-hmm.
	So as they wheeled you into the operating room, what sort of paraphernalia did you notice hanging around?
	I didn't see anything.
	I bet they cover all that stuff up.
	Well, I think they probably put me out before they brought it out.
	I mean, you don't want to see a line of chainsaws.
	No, no, no.
	Dr. Spencler said that there was no way that I could have seen any of that equipment going in, and I certainly didn't see it coming out.
	I see.
	So in you go, and it looks pretty good, and I guess they're saying we're about to give you a little bit of this or that and count backwards for us.
	Right.
	And away you went, huh?
	Well, then this is the big question.
	Then what?
	Well, my first recollection, this very hour, I heard a pitch.
	And I pitched it natural D as a musician with perfect pitch.
	It was natural D. And the sound of it sort of reminded me of being in a dentist's office of a drill.
	Oh.
	And I began to feel myself being pulled out of the top of my head.
	Really?
	Uh-huh.
	And as I got out of the top of my head, I had this incredibly clear vision.
	And my hearing was enhanced.
	While I know it sounds funny to describe it this way, but there were physical properties to the soul.
	They were definitely enhanced.
	It's as if every cell in my body was carrying the senses.
	And the first thing that I saw was an instrument in his hand that reminded me very much of the handle on my electric toothbrush.
	Oh, wait a minute.
	You saw him?
	Yes.
	Meaning you saw the doctor?
	Yes.
	I saw many doctors.
	Oh my goodness, you saw the operating room?
	Absolutely, yes.
	I saw them performing surgery on me.
	And there's a part of the surgical process whereby they access the femoral arteries and veins in order to remove the blood.
	Yes.
	And I was very confused.
	I thought they were doing surgery on the wrong place because as we know, the femoral arteries are high up on the leg.
	That's right, yes.
	And I distinctly heard A female voice.
	I would later learn she was my cardiologist.
	Um, I distinctly heard her say, we have a little problem here.
	Her veins and arteries are too small.
	So they were, they were going, they were attempting then to get in, to remove all of your blood from, from your, the arteries in your legs?
	Exactly.
	That's how they drain the blood.
	Uh huh.
	And it went into a holding tank and um, Your blood went into a holding tank?
	Right.
	Went into a holding tank until they reintroduced it into the body after the clipping of the aneurysm.
	I take it they don't, do they drain your blood before they cool you down?
	I think the cooling process begins first.
	First.
	Do you know how they do that?
	I mean, do they pack you in ice?
	Yes.
	It's an ice bed, ice bath.
	Wow!
	And they cool your body down and in that process the heart You reach a certain place where the heart naturally stops.
	Just of its own?
	Yes.
	And then the blood is drained and they get to a point where they can safely go in, use the brain saw and go in and open the... Well, here's a strange question for you.
	How can they drain your blood without your heart pumping it?
	I don't know.
	I really don't know, and I could be confused about it.
	No, not necessarily, because I think, you know, in mortuaries, I don't want to get too morbid, but they drain the blood there without the heart pumping, so obviously there must be a way to do it.
	I'm not a medical expert, so there must be a way to do it.
	So they cool you off, and then they drain all your blood, and this is stored in a blood vat.
	Right.
	And then your heart stops, and I wonder how long it takes for your brain waves to cease.
	I don't know.
	I would think immediately with the absence of blood flow.
	Right, pretty much immediately.
	Right, I would think so.
	But again, I'm not a doctor and I can't really speak for Barrow Institute and what they do.
	I can only tell you what I know from my point.
	And then out comes the surgical chainsaw.
	Well, it wasn't really a chainsaw.
	It looked like the handle on my electric toothbrush.
	And I could see they had this case that they kept different sizes of bits in and the case looked exactly like the case that my father kept his socket wrenches in when I was growing up.
	Oh my God.
	So I was able to see that and I was able to hear the conversation and at about that time I began to sense a pulling in my tummy.
	And I looked up and saw a light, a very small pinpoint of light way up in the distance.
	Pam, just one quick break-in question.
	Okay.
	This I really want to understand.
	When you were seeing all of these things, and obviously you saw a great deal of detail, maybe too much, thank you.
	Amen!
	Did you feel conscious in the way that you feel conscious right now?
	Was it the same kind of consciousness or a greater consciousness?
	Yes, it was a heightened consciousness, Art.
	It was very heightened.
	I have never experienced anything before or since like that.
	It was absolute, total, and complete focus.
	My eyesight was more clear.
	My hearing was more acute.
	I was just... And pain?
	None!
	Oh no!
	No pain?
	Healing was incredible!
	And your awareness of self was either as good or better than ever?
	Absolutely!
	And I was not changed in terms of self.
	I still had my same mind, my same attitudes, my same likes and dislikes.
	It was absolutely me without the body.
	Well, you say without the body, so you were seeing your body operated on from a detached place?
	Exactly, and I looked down at the body, realized it was my body, but I've got to tell you, I felt about as attached to it, less attached to it, than I have some cars I've had to get rid of.
	I absolutely had no attachment whatsoever to that body.
	So like if you had to leave at that moment, you wouldn't have mourned as you left your body?
	Oh no, no problem.
	But the feeling of coming out of it, especially having endured so much pain for so long, the feeling was total freedom, total peace, just complete serenity.
	All right.
	I wanted to understand the state of consciousness.
	That sounds really complete.
	In fact, super-consciousness.
	So then you say you saw a light?
	Right.
	And the light began to pull me.
	And I literally had a physical sensation right above my belly button that reminds me of going over a hill real fast.
	But here you are again talking about The physical.
	Exactly.
	But you were detached from your body.
	So when you say belly button, what do you mean?
	I mean that there were properties to the soul that had physical properties.
	They were very different from the physical properties of the body.
	Was there anything of yourself?
	Did you look at your detached self?
	Were there hands and legs and feet?
	No.
	As a matter of fact, at one point I put my hands up in front of my face, and the light was so incredibly bright that I could not see them.
	Wow.
	So, in other words, you had a physical sense of all this, but no sight sense of it?
	Well, not of my own body, but I did see others.
	I've got you, okay.
	I was able to see others, but not myself.
	So a very bright light and you're starting to be drawn to it as if you wanted to go or it was just drawing you whether you wanted to go or not.
	No, I wanted to go.
	It was wonderful.
	I cannot find words to express how incredibly free and serene and the light was beautiful.
	And very shortly after that began, I distinctly heard my grandmother call me.
	Your grandmother?
	And I sort of turned around to look from where her voice was coming, and there she was.
	And there she was?
	Yes, she was there.
	And with her was an uncle.
	There were many people I recognized and many I didn't.
	A sea of people.
	Do you remember your surroundings other than the people being there?
	In other words, was it just sort of light?
	And they were within that light?
	Or were there physical surroundings as well?
	They were light.
	They themselves were light.
	Their clothing was light.
	Light was emanating from them.
	How do you explain it?
	Just the best you can.
	At one point, I sensed a garden atmosphere.
	I didn't really see a garden, but it's almost like I could smell fresh, new, just the feeling of being in a garden.
	Remember, I was not permitted to go all the way through.
	I was stopped and detained at one point and told or communicated to that if I were allowed to go any further, something, a physical change would occur and they would be unable to reconnect the spiritual me to the physical me.
	So I was held there and not permitted to go all the way in.
	Here you are, though, with your relatives at one point, and then you left them.
	How did this communication with you take place?
	Was this separate from your relatives, or were they still there at the time?
	They were with me, but with my relatives, there was a sea of people I didn't recognize, and I know I was connected to them for miles.
	A sea of people?
	Everywhere.
	All around me.
	And it struck me as really strange, and it still does today.
	These people loved me so much, and I didn't know who they were.
	I felt a strong connection to them, but I did not know who they were.
	I don't know how to ask this question.
	Had you led a good life?
	I mean, had you been basically a good person?
	Oh, that's a fabulous question, because when I first got there, my first thought was, I hope I'm in the right place.
	Because I have not lived a perfect life.
	I've always been a loving person, but I was taught in a very stringent Christian environment that if you screw up, guess where you go?
	Yes, right.
	And Lord knows I've done my share of screwing up.
	I see.
	We all have.
	Uh-huh.
	We all have.
	And there was a great laughter when I was thinking this thought, and my grandmother communicated to me, you were a child sent away to school.
	As a child it was expected that you would spill your milk.
	It's the manner in which you cleaned it up that gives us cause for pride and allows you to be here.
	Wow.
	And I thought, you know, that's it.
	That's it.
	We do what we know how to do and when we make a mess we clean it up and we try real hard not to do it again and bingo!
	Um, during this particular time when your relatives were there, in other words, did you realize, did you know that you were dead?
	Yeah, dead.
	I mean, you knew you were dead.
	You were conscious of your situation.
	Now, we talk a lot about ghosts and stuff on this program, and a lot of people speculate that some people who die instantly might not know right away that they're even dead.
	You know, I can see how that happens.
	But in my case, remember, I did have a clear understanding that I would have no heartbeat.
	I didn't know about the blood thing.
	I probably knew, but didn't understand it.
	I didn't know how completely I would be dead, but yes, I did have some warning.
	When it happened to me, I was not surprised.
	I didn't expect it, but I was not surprised.
	It seemed as natural to me as waking up in the morning.
	So after the relatives, or with them, after chatting with them, some voice or something imparted to you in what way that, listen, You can't really go any further.
	Right.
	Or you shouldn't go any further.
	Which was it?
	Right.
	Well, I was not allowed to.
	It was, I can't.
	I was not given an opportunity to make a decision.
	That decision apparently had been made before I laid on that table.
	And I don't feel like it was a decision that was made for me.
	Even though, to be honest, once I got there, I changed my mind.
	I really had no desire... To go back?
	Well, I wanted to come back and rear my children and live my life, but at the end of the experience, when I saw the body, needless to say, it terrified me.
	I did not want to get in it.
	I knew it was going to hurt, and I had no interest in doing it at all whatsoever.
	When you were out of your body, what about your sense of time?
	Was there any difference, in other words, there was a linear amount of time that the operation went on and a linear amount of time that you were dead?
	There was no sense of time or space whatsoever.
	So it didn't coincide with what you felt when you were gone?
	Nothing, no.
	However, in terms of linear time, the physicians who investigated the case tell me that my recounted experience matched perfectly with the timing.
	Just as a matter of interest, first of all, did you recount all of this to your physicians as surgeons afterwards?
	Yes, I did immediately afterwards.
	Immediately?
	And how did they treat that information?
	Well, I remember Dr. Spetzer raising an eyebrow and looking at me in a peculiar manner.
	Really?
	Oh yes, but at the time, I believe that this is perfectly normal, that it happened to everyone.
	And I thought, dealing in these kinds of cases, as he did, surely he knew about it.
	And I was frankly very flippant and teasing about what had happened to me, you know.
	Yeah, but as you began to give him details of what you could not possibly, not possibly have known, this must have been a little difficult for him to handle.
	You know, Dr. Spitzer handles an awful lot easily.
	Does he?
	Oh, yes.
	He runs a research center and he once told me that we are in our infancy in our understanding of the brain and what it can do.
	And recounting that kind of evidence so quickly after surgery and having no way of knowing those details.
	Right.
	Not having talked to nurses who were there or surgical techs or whatever.
	Right.
	Certainly, although it doesn't correspond with what he knows about the brain, I believe he said on one of the Discovery Channel programs, he certainly is not all knowing enough to say it didn't happen.
	And it is quite unusual that those kinds of details in that great of number would be so forthcoming so quickly after the process.
	Well, you know, he would be an interesting person for me to... Oh, absolutely.
	...to interview about your case and other cases just like yours.
	Right.
	Well, you know the man.
	Put in a good word for me, would you?
	I will.
	I'll be glad to.
	All right.
	Pam, we're at a break point, so hold on.
	Pam Reynolds is my guest.
	She died on the operating table.
	And you know, I forgot to even ask how long.
	Quite some period of time, though.
	She was physically dead, and you're hearing her story.
	I'm Art Bell.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from December 6th, 2001.
	This is a presentation of the Coast to Coast AM concert.
	The concert will be performed by the Coast to Coast AM orchestra.
	Thank you for watching.
	Lord, I'm waiting by your side.
	You've been rushed, I've been rushed too long.
	You know it's just your foolish mind.
	Hey love, got me on my knees.
	Hey love, Dang it, darling, please wait Darling, don't you ease my worry now I tried to give you consolation And your old man let you down But I can't believe I fell in love with you
	you you're listening to our bills somewhere in time tonight
	featuring a replay of coast to coast a m from december six
	two thousand one by guest is pam reynolds and she died on the operating table
	all the blood gone heart stop brainwaves gone
	For a kind...
	Dead.
	and that's what we're talking about a remarkable just a remarkable story and
	we'll get right back to her okay once again uh...
	cam reynolds and uh...
	ho boy pam uh...
	so so many questions uh...
	uh...
	How did your relatives appear to you?
	Did they appear to be in the full physical?
	Were they somewhat translucent?
	Were they only beings of light?
	And if so, how did you recognize them as your relatives?
	Well, they did.
	They looked like my relatives.
	And the peculiar thing is that they looked like my relatives at the best times in their lives.
	Really?
	Yes.
	Even my grandmother looked very young.
	Her voice was my identifier.
	She did not look like she looked when she passed away.
	No kidding?
	No kidding.
	My uncle as well.
	I didn't see anyone old and I didn't see anyone very, very young.
	It was as if everyone I saw was perfect.
	Well, I guess this is kind of an ultimate question, Pam, but if you had no brain waves, you had no neural functions firing, your brain was dead meat.
	Right.
	During this time, then, where were you, Pam?
	That's an excellent question, and it's one for the books.
	It has huge implications for not only the spiritual aspects, but also the medical aspects.
	I used to, myself, believe in the brain theory.
	The brain made me do it.
	The physicians indicated to me that, sweetheart, you had no brain.
	And it wasn't a hallucination, because you were hooked up to an EEG machine, and if you had had a tickle of a brainwave, it would have registered.
	You need brainwaves and neural activity to have a hallucination.
	Precisely.
	Not only that, but when I came back into the body, and it still to this day astounds me, Art, that I'm able to recall this.
	That it registered and downloaded And it's such a vivid memory, it's as if it's still
	happening.
	And how does that happen?
	See, that to me is one of those physical answers that I believe is knowable.
	I think that eventually through research...
	We can know?
	Absolutely.
	And that's why I totally support Barrow Institute Foundation,
	because they are the cutting edge research foundation for the brain.
	Pun intended, I guess.
	Pam, I want to tell you about a quick experience I had because it seems to parallel something that happened to you.
	This is the only time it ever happened in my life.
	For years, I've interviewed people about out-of-body experiences and all the rest of it.
	It was all very interesting, but nothing had ever happened to me.
	My wife and I had the opportunity, it was really cool, to go to Paris.
	On the Concorde, you know, it was one of those deals where we got to ride along as part of a sort of a radio station thing.
	Very cool.
	It was very cool.
	And, you know, I was working at the time six days a week, 30 hours on the air every week.
	And I had a really, really strict schedule.
	I mean, when you broadcast like this, your life revolves around it.
	It's not just something you do.
	Your life revolves around it.
	And so I had a very strict regimen.
	And when I went off to Paris, all of that got cattywampus.
	My life turned upside down.
	All of a sudden I had free time, and my mind was free, and I was relaxed and totally out of my normal environment.
	And my wife and I were lying in a bed in Paris, and Pam, I went out of my body.
	I have never experienced anything like this in my life.
	It was like I instantly, at 10 zillion miles an hour, went up above Paris.
	Way up above, somewhere up above Paris.
	And I was in a completely joyful state.
	I mean, I had never felt such overwhelming joy in my whole life.
	Nothing like it.
	Exactly.
	And it shocked me so badly, Pam.
	that fight i snapped right back into my body you crashed it's what you do
	and then i can't tell you what you should not be panache landing like
	rachel ended and and i was
	when i came to you when i was about came back i'd welcome my wife so my card
	you wouldn't be what And I was telling her about it, and that's not a good thing to wake up your wife like that.
	But I couldn't stop talking about it.
	I was so excited.
	It was so amazing what happened to me.
	It was like I took a shot like the fastest elevator up you've ever... And you experienced something just like that, didn't you?
	Exactly.
	Really?
	That's why I have to believe that this thing happens to all of us, that it's physical law.
	Physical law.
	Right.
	Belief system being belief systems and faith being a thing that's unprovable.
	Physical law has no basis in belief system.
	You don't have to believe the sun will come up in the morning for the sun to come up.
	Because it's physical law.
	Well, you mentioned you were raised as a Christian.
	A very strict Christian household.
	Pretty much, yes.
	So, did any part of your experience Well, yes, it validated everything that I believe, but it did a little more than that for me.
	I learned while I was there that each and every one of us has a different tone, a different spirit.
	We're not cookie-cutter people, and I firmly believe, as per my experience, that we all find our path.
	on our own in our own individual ways and to borrow someone else's just does not work.
	So souls then are absolutely individual things? Absolutely.
	In my experience there was no great merging into one single unit. I had all of my individuality
	intact and the people I was with did as well. That's what I've always wanted to know,
	although you have to wonder if from where you were you were to move onward if that would
	change. There's no way to know that, huh?
	Well, no, not from where I am right now.
	I suspect it would not, though.
	And the reason I suspect that is because there was a great chorus going on, and the chorus contained the different tones of the different people that I was with.
	Now, as a musician, I can tell you that when you create that many tones, what you end up with is discordance.
	However, it was just the opposite.
	It was the most beautiful harmony I have ever experienced.
	And I cannot tell you, even though my theory, I have a master's degree in classical composition, and I cannot tell you how that is possible.
	But it is possible.
	It happened.
	And I could easily see how Leaving out even one of those tones would leave a great hole in the chorus.
	A very empty place in the chorus.
	Do you think that it, of course, there's not going to be a way for you to answer this unless you had a conversation, but do you think it's going to be the same for everybody or an individual experience for everybody?
	Well, you know, I think everything is an individual experience for everyone, even though it is the same.
	My take on a full moon is going to be different than yours, because we're different.
	But yet it's the same moon.
	So, my take on it is, a thing is not a thing, a thing is how we perceive a thing.
	And in that way, it's always different.
	And yet, it's the same.
	Especially as pertaining to physical law.
	And as I said before, I believe That this is going to happen to everyone, whether or not they believe it.
	Did you have, with this light, did you have a dialogue with the light?
	Were you able to ask anything or say anything?
	Or was it just information one?
	Oh, really?
	Yes.
	But I wasn't speaking with a light.
	I was speaking with individuals.
	And there were many things passed between us.
	Relatives?
	Some relatives, and again... And some not?
	Many people that I did not know, but they knew me.
	And there was some kind of connection there.
	They knew you?
	Mm-hmm.
	I'd go further than that.
	They didn't just know me, they loved me.
	And were very concerned for my life's path and where I was and what was going on with me.
	What kind of conversations can you recall?
	What kind of communications?
	Well, at one point I asked what the nature of the light was.
	And I asked if the light was God.
	Good question.
	And I was told, no, the light is not God.
	It's what happens when God respirates.
	Breathe.
	Again, there goes that physical concept.
	I believe, you know, the scriptures say the kingdom of God is within.
	It's right here.
	It's right now.
	Yes.
	I think it's another dimension.
	You do?
	I really do.
	I think it's another dimension that we just don't Understand our technology is not yet caught up with it?
	A lot of our theoretical physicists, the best minds in the world, agree with you.
	Really?
	Oh, yes.
	I interview them here and that is where all the speculation is going right now about other dimensions.
	Eleven or more of them, actually.
	Well, that amazes me.
	And perhaps you stepped into the first adjacent dimension.
	Right.
	It felt more like a holding tank than a final destination.
	A holding tank?
	It really did.
	With all of these people, do you think these other people were also... Well, gee, in the case of your grandmother, she's been gone a while, Earth time, I guess, right?
	Right.
	And so, maybe there's no way to measure how long one stays in the, in quotes, holding tank, huh?
	I don't think they belong there.
	I think they came for me.
	For you?
	Yes.
	They came for me.
	To retrieve me and take care of me and make sure that I made it to my destination.
	Wow.
	This would indicate a soul has great value indeed.
	Exactly.
	And it was also communicated to me that even though I didn't see them and talk with them on a daily basis, that they were able to come here and be with us.
	I mean, for a while I was a little nervous about getting in the shower.
	In other words, a number of them told you they visit Earth?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	That they were with us.
	That they were with me.
	Boy, that sure accounts for a lot.
	And I sense them.
	To this day, I sense them around me.
	You feel them around you?
	Mm-hmm.
	Has this changed your... I mean, most people have.
	Probably a natural fear of death.
	Has this affected the way you feel about the prospect of eventual death after all?
	We are all going to die.
	Well, you know, I really didn't contemplate it until I found out it was going to happen to me.
	I don't think I had a fear of death per se.
	I had a fear of leaving my children without their mother.
	Of course.
	But in terms of fearing death, absolutely not.
	In fact, I've got a little funny story for you.
	The way that I was introduced to Dr. Michael Sabom, who did the initial research on this case, was I went in for an appointment with a neurologist, and I had had a concussion to the back of the head and a severe brain injury after the surgery.
	And she told me, in a very solemn way, that I was left with a condition that could easily take my life.
	I laughed at her.
	You laughed at her?
	I laughed.
	I couldn't stop laughing.
	So that's the bad news.
	You know, others that I have interviewed, you must know of Danion Brinkley, for example.
	I've heard the name, yes.
	He's had several near-death experiences.
	He was burned up, hit by lightning.
	Did you have a life review?
	Any sort of life review?
	No.
	Okay, well, he did.
	He also encountered a lot of what you encountered.
	But, you know, his attitude about life-threatening stuff now is exactly that.
	He laughs at people.
	Yeah, that's the bad news.
	That's the bad... He says, oh, beat me, hurt me, let me die.
	He says it just like that.
	He says it exactly like that.
	So then your attitude about dying since that experience, obviously, is...
	Oh well.
	Oh absolutely.
	It's not even oh well, it's oh good.
	Oh good?
	Uh huh.
	I'm ready.
	Call me home.
	Has it changed the way you live your life since?
	Profoundly, yes.
	Oh?
	I'm pretty isolated.
	I'm very sensitive.
	Highly intuitive.
	Oh yes.
	Yeah.
	That's another thing that's happened to a lot of people who have done nearly what you have done, and that is that they have a heightened sense of psychic ability.
	Although I don't like the word psychic, I can certainly understand why it would be referred to as that.
	A heightened intuitiveness?
	How about that?
	Yeah, but it's a little more than that.
	I paid very close attention to how it works in me.
	And I noticed that it's not purely telepathic.
	I've noticed that a lot of it, at least half of it, is Sherlock Holmes Syndrome.
	Again, physical law.
	If you do this, this will happen, cause and effect.
	I have a heightened perception of what's going on.
	If a person is telling me a story and swearing it's true while he's shaking his head backwards and forwards, I'm pretty sure they're lying.
	And that to me is not necessarily a psychic phenomenon, as I understand it.
	And yet, I think it's a combination of things.
	I think that this is a thing that everyone has, and we've allowed our intellects to override it.
	I really believe that it's as primitive as animal instinct.
	How soon after coming out of this did that begin?
	Did you notice?
	Immediately.
	Immediately?
	Immediately.
	You see, the method of communication there was so much different than it is here.
	Yes.
	There was no verbal speech.
	So, immediately after the surgery, I was hearing people speak when they weren't speaking.
	And that still is a very big problem for me.
	Wow.
	I'm out with people, and I don't think they've said something to me, so I'll respond to them.
	And they look at me like, uh-oh.
	I've interviewed so many NDE people and the same thing.
	Again, I can refer to Dan because I know him so well.
	He'll come to visit and he'll be with me and I can't spend long amounts of time with Dan.
	The reason for that is because he makes me intensely uncomfortable.
	The guy knows what I'm thinking all the time and it's unnerving.
	Now, is this something you can turn off?
	No.
	If I could, believe me, I would.
	See, I believe the energy is a lot like electricity.
	It'll light the house up or burn it down.
	Now, not being an electrician, I don't play with that.
	But when the lights go on, I can't help but see.
	Right.
	And there's no way.
	I can dizzy my mind and stave it off for a time.
	But the moment I get quiet, here it comes.
	And if you're adjacent to a lot of people, is it like a cacophony of noise?
	Yes, sometimes.
	And yet I am able to isolate what's coming from who.
	Oh you are?
	Yes.
	That's kind of a unique ability in the beginning Daniel told me he couldn't, and that bothered him intensely.
	I mean, he would get to the point where he would tell everybody, get out of the room, I'm sorry, I want to be alone.
	Right.
	I want to meditate, I want to be alone, I have to be alone.
	Right.
	Ah, remarkable.
	Alright, we're at the bottom of an hour.
	Pam, hold on.
	Pam Reynolds is my guest.
	She went to the other side and back.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from
	December 6th, 2001.
	I'm just beginning to see Now I'm on my way
	It doesn't matter to me Chasing the clouds away
	Something calls to me The trees are drawing near
	What a wonderful world I see skies so blue
	And clouds so white The bright blessed day
	The dark sacred night And I think to myself
	What a wonderful world www.artbell.com
	The colors of the rainbow So pretty in the sky Are also on the faces Of people going by I see friends shaking hands Saying how do you do They're really saying I love you I hear babies crying You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from December 6th, 2001.
	I think when I saw the 48 Hours piece on Pam Reynolds, you may have seen it too, they kind of left the piece by asking the really big question, and that was, during the time there were no brainwaves, zip, zero, nothing, where was Pam Reynolds?
	Where was she?
	We'll be right back.
	Once again, from Atlanta, Georgia, I'm Reynolds.
	Pam, during the time that you were gone, because that's the right word, gone, did you have any larger sense of the world?
	Did you understand any more about the world?
	Absolutely.
	Yes, I did.
	Oh, you did?
	Mm-hmm.
	During the process, I was with my relatives and other people.
	They downloaded me.
	They fed me something.
	It went into the top of my head and it was sparkly, like golden sparkle.
	I literally had the sensation of being fed and nurtured.
	Again, there comes that physical element.
	Since then I came back with sure and certain knowledge of the way we were going and how we were getting there and how we could avoid getting there.
	Oh my!
	And how we couldn't.
	Okay, tell us as much of that as you're able, if you would please, because this again is so typical of what others have experienced.
	Yes, I saw what a lot of people, other people see, vast earth changes.
	I see a consciousness change and I think that's going to happen around 212.
	2012.
	End, oh, the Mayan calendar.
	Really?
	Oh, yeah.
	2012 is when the Mayan calendar just abruptly ends, like they didn't have anything more to... Anyway.
	Well, I don't see the end of the world, but I do see a breakthrough in physics that will make it... cause us to understand space-time continuum and how terribly wrong we are to look at time as a linear thing.
	Holy mackerel!
	Did you understand all of these concepts prior to this?
	Of course not.
	I'm a musician.
	I understand B flat equals C when you're playing a trumpet.
	And now you're throwing time continuum at me.
	Yeah, no.
	I understood a lot about physical law that I absolutely had no concept of prior to.
	What do we misunderstand or not understand about the nature of time?
	We don't understand that everything that has ever happened and will ever happen is actually happening right now.
	That linear time is a man-made device in order for us to control our environment.
	To be able to label it and move within the physical structure that we're in.
	It has really no relativity whatsoever outside of the human condition.
	Oh.
	It's just not like that.
	You say you saw Earth changes.
	How specific?
	I'm thinking something like polar shifts.
	I'm thinking water where there was none.
	I'm thinking volcanoes and earthquakes and of course we've had a lot of that going on already.
	Oh yes we have.
	And there's also, Pam, you know there's mounting evidence now that what we I had previously thought about what happened here on Earth, and man's history is all wrong.
	Well, you're right.
	Because we're much older, and we have been more civilized for a longer time than is in recorded history.
	About six months ago, Pam, I began breaking a story about this remarkable find, 2200 feet, almost a half a mile below the water in Cuba, of this, what appears to be an urban area city, And just tonight on CNN, MSNBC, Reuters, they're breaking the story themselves that there's been this urban city found way below the water in Cuba.
	It's breaking the mainstream press.
	So, you know, it would tend to underscore what you're saying right now.
	Right.
	The thing is, you know, I really believe that with all of our technology, we are so vulnerable to destruction because We all use computers, but can we build one?
	And can we network all of these wonderful things that we have?
	I think not.
	We're too specialized for that.
	And if we have a shutdown or a meltdown, we're right back to planting the seed and harvesting just to stay alive.
	So it's very easy for me to see how advanced civilizations could go from that kind of advancement right back to agriculture.
	Do you actually see that happening?
	You're right.
	I mean, we're a technological civilization.
	I'm one who lives clearly right in the very middle of it all the time.
	And we depend on this, but it's a thin thread indeed, and it wouldn't take much to toss us back.
	Right.
	Right.
	I see that happening, but I don't see it happening globally.
	I think that we've come to a point, humanity has come to a point, that our technology is merging with our spirituality.
	And as this begins to happen, our memories become more acute.
	And I believe that we are able to store and pass on to future generations more of that than we were ever before.
	In this great download of information that occurred to you, was there anything with regard to what's happening in the world, the environment of the world itself?
	Yes.
	In terms of, like, for instance, the war in the Middle East?
	Yes.
	That was something that I shared, as a matter of fact, with a very dear friend of mine shortly after the process.
	Oh, my.
	I mean, right down to where it was going down.
	Again, I can't say that that's a purely psychic phenomenon, because there was so much information available.
	Obviously, with an IQ of 160, I'm going to pay attention to that.
	You have an IQ of 160?
	Yes, and by the way, my doctor would have you know that I still have that IQ, after the surgical process, as well as perfect pitch.
	And I can tell you, if I take a Benadryl, or a cold preparation, it interferes with that process.
	It does?
	Yes, it does.
	Now I would like to know, Well, you know, there's some really interesting research, Pam.
	brain and my body did not interfere with that process.
	And again, the only way we're going to find that out is research.
	Well, you know, there's some really interesting research, Pam.
	There have been people, believe it or not, who have had half their brains or better actually
	removed and they remain functional in every way.
	There is so much about our brains that we don't even begin to understand.
	Exactly.
	And the research center over at Barrow Institute, I mean these people are in the hall of that and they're cutting edge.
	They're right on the cutting edge of everything that's going on.
	But the big barrier Pam, the big barrier and what I cannot understand rationalized in any scientific way known to mankind or in my own mind is that look
	once i mean your heart can stop a little oxygen spill over the brain fine
	but when they take out all your blood your heart stops and then your brain wave totally goes
	flat line then
	no hallucinations no imaginations no dreams no anything should be occurring
	because that's the electrical process of the brain Exactly.
	And we're talking about an hour in that state, Art.
	Oh, I meant to ask you... We're not talking about just a few minutes.
	We're talking about an hour.
	You were an hour?
	Yes.
	If you would examine my body any time during that hour, I would be found to be dead by all clinical criteria.
	So, we're not talking about something that was just a matter of a few minutes.
	An hour?
	Yes.
	And the time that you spent gone seemed to, though there was no real relationship, what you were able to tell them later seemed to coincide with the hour?
	Well, precisely.
	And the way that was documented was, as I came back into the body, I was watching as they defibrillated me.
	They put the paddles to my chest and the body jerked.
	And I communicated to my uncle, there's no way I'm getting in that thing.
	You actually remember seeing the paddles?
	Oh sure!
	And I saw the body jump.
	Now I know, oh my, I know that in some cases like yours, when they put the blood back in the body, the heart will start spontaneously.
	Obviously that didn't occur in your case.
	Well it did, but I had fibrillation.
	I see.
	Which is a deadly condition.
	Oh of course.
	And they had to normalize the sinus rhythm of the heart.
	And the first time it didn't work, I would not re-enter the body.
	My uncle explained to me, Honey, it's like diving into a swimming pool.
	Just dive in.
	Do you remember any sensation when they hit the paddles the first time?
	No, because I wasn't in the body.
	The second time, it hurt.
	I definitely remember that because I about jumped off the table.
	And then I heard, A line from the title cut of the Hotel California album by the Eagles.
	Oh yes!
	You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave.
	So the first thing I said to Dr. Carl when I woke up was, boy was that insensitive.
	What a thing to do to a poor kid, right?
	A lot of doctors, and it sounds like this one might be one, will play classical music while they operate.
	Yes.
	I'm told that Dr. Spetzler likes classical music, and the way that the doctors explained it to me was he had left the operating theater and left me to the cardiology team to finish up and close me up, and they began to play rock and roll, and that's what was playing.
	How many people were on this team?
	There must have been, for an operation of this magnitude, I bet there's quite a crowd.
	I couldn't count.
	There were so numerous, I just could not count.
	I can tell you that they were so thick that I could barely see the body.
	I saw mostly heads.
	The tops of heads.
	Do you remember whether the movement you saw in the operating room and around you was... whether people were moving at normal speed, speaking in normal speech?
	Yes.
	They were?
	Mm-hmm.
	It didn't go into hyperspeed until I was out of the body and into the light.
	Or in through the tunnel close to the light.
	And then everything seemed to be in... Now you had not mentioned a tunnel before.
	You mentioned a light.
	Right.
	There was a tunnel.
	Mm-hmm.
	The light was a tiny little pinpoint of light that began to pull me.
	But there was a dark... I don't know how to explain this.
	Kind of like a... The Wizard of Oz being in the middle of a tornado.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	It was motion.
	There was a lot of motion going on.
	And you were racing toward that light?
	fast moving train. I saw many things but it was going by so quickly that I could not really
	slow myself down long enough to define them. And you were racing toward that light. Absolutely.
	You know, in an attempt to explain what you're talking about right now, a lot of neurosurgeons
	have said, oh well, you know, the brain dies from the outside moving inwards.
	So this pinpoint of light is the very center of the brain or the last place where the neurons are firing.
	And so they explain that as as as the tunnel and the light at the end of the tunnel.
	Mm-hmm.
	But that's real hard to do when you don't have any brain waves.
	Yes, ma'am.
	So, the very last bastion for the brain wave theory is that they don't believe that the equipment, the technology we have is sensitive enough to pick up the minute brain activity that may have been occurring.
	But I am told... For an hour without oxygen?
	I don't think so.
	Uh-huh.
	I don't think so either and neither do my doctors.
	They feel like if that kind of hallucination would definitely record it, we would have seen something.
	And the whole theory behind I heard what was going on in the operating room and built a picture, they put speakers in my ears that made such a loud clicking noise that I'm told if I were fully conscious I couldn't have heard a thing.
	Why would they do that?
	To check my brain stem.
	It was supposed to stimulate my brain stem.
	To try to elicit some kind of response from the brainstem and monitor it.
	Really?
	That's how they're absolutely sure that there is not any activity.
	Both brains, upper and lower brain, were completely flat lined.
	There was simply nothing there.
	Did you, prior to the operation, agree to have 48 hours?
	How did 48 hours get involved in covering what What happened to you?
	Well, Dr. Michael Sabom, who's been on your show, and I'm sure you're familiar with him.
	Oh, yes.
	Wrote a book, and he investigated my case.
	I was very reluctant to talk about it.
	I thought that it was just one of many.
	Big deal.
	It happens to everybody.
	But he said, because of the monitoring, it bore investigation.
	And he went and investigated it, and lo and behold, Learned that there were some real funny things going on here.
	And as he began to release his book, of course, the news media showed up.
	Prior to the operation?
	No, after.
	This was years after the operation.
	See, I wouldn't discuss it with anyone but family, friends, and doctors up until that time.
	What made you decide to suddenly go ahead and talk about it?
	Well, it was put to me like this.
	You have to tell because you can.
	I would have told you the same thing.
	Oh God, you've got to tell.
	I mean, people need to be able to hear this.
	Well, and not only on a spiritual level, but again, on a medical level.
	Why did my brain store this information?
	How did it store it and how did it keep it when there was no activity?
	And if we solve that problem, we open the door to all kinds of healing techniques.
	From Parkinson's to Alzheimer's to epilepsy.
	You know, somebody might say, well look, you had this experience when you were either on the way out or on the way back.
	But that cannot possibly explain your ability to document what went on during the whole operation when your brain was gone.
	Precisely.
	And also, the timing of the conversation that I heard was precise.
	It was precise with the exiting of the body and the visual.
	I'm told that they normally do not have to defibrillate patients.
	Right.
	And I'm told that, yes, I was defibrillated twice, which is highly unusual.
	And that would have been the end of my near-death experience and also my first heartbeat.
	So, see, in that way, we can put a linear time on it in terms of this world and what was happening here.
	I left at a time when there was no brain function, and I returned at a time when my body had just started to become active again.
	Were you a spiritual person before this, in the sense of even considering things like our environment, earth changes, what's happening in the Middle East, all of this information that was downloaded to you?
	No, not really.
	I'm a very clinical, analytical person.
	I still am.
	I believe that half of what happened to me is spiritual and the other half is science that we just don't understand yet.
	But through research we can understand and we will understand.
	I wonder if that would be, and I've wondered about this in recent days, whether that would be a good thing if we conclusively, scientifically prove that consciousness not only continues but is enhanced following physical death.
	What kind of effect that's going to have on the world and all the people in it?
	Well, I don't see a whole lot of difference there because we're in school here, and education is very, very important, and I believe that you have to have a certain level of education in order to move on.
	In school here?
	Uh-huh.
	This is school.
	It's just a great big, huge university that was created for us to come train.
	Well, I'm worried because at best I'm a C student.
	Well, don't be so worried because we're all judged each in accordance to our own understanding.
	There's no way to compare you to me or anybody else.
	We're individuals and we're looked at as individuals and that actually is a thing to be rejoicing about.
	Was there any indication to you that there was a place Less pleasant than you were where it's possible to go.
	I didn't see any hell.
	But I can't tell you it doesn't exist just because I didn't see it.
	I didn't have any sense of it.
	It wasn't discussed.
	But I do have a profound sense that if I don't do what's expected of me, then I will bear the consequences for that.
	In much the same way as I would bear those consequences here on the earth.
	Do you think part of what is expected of you is to be able to tell people about, you know, about all of this?
	Was that part of it?
	Yes.
	However, I was warned on the other side not to come down here and start the Church of the Gospel according to Pam, that there had been enough of that.
	It's true.
	There's been a lot of that, Pam.
	Listen, if you'll stick around one more hour, I'll open the lines.
	I'd love to be able to let people ask questions.
	Great.
	All right.
	Done deal.
	Stay right where you are.
	Wow.
	Pam Reynolds is my guest.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from December 6, 2001.
	AMC News Dispatch Theme Coast to Coast AMC News Dispatch Theme
	Coast to Coast AMC News Dispatch Theme Coast to Coast AMC News Dispatch Theme
	Tonight's program originally aired December 6th, 2001.
	It sure is.
	Good morning, everybody.
	An absolutely remarkable interview.
	Simply remarkable.
	With Pam Reynolds, who was dead for an hour.
	Really dead.
	program originally or december six two thousand one picture is good morning
	everybody and absolutely remarkable interview simply remarkable
	with pam reynolds who was dead for an hour
	no brain waves no blood
	no heartbeat no anything
	Dead, by her own doctor's definition.
	Really dead.
	And we're going to the phones.
	If you have questions for Pam, that's what's coming next.
	Once again, here's Pam Reynolds all the way from Atlanta, where gee in Atlanta, it must
	be getting to be real late.
	What is it, a little after four o'clock there or something?
	It's 410.
	Uh-huh.
	Uh, hanging in there okay?
	I'm doing fine.
	Well, then you must be basically pretty healthy after all of this, huh?
	Reasonably.
	I mean, considering the situation, I'm real healthy.
	Of all things considered, that's right.
	I guess you are real healthy.
	Alright, here we go.
	If you're ready.
	I'm ready.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Pam.
	Hi.
	Hello, this is Joanne from Pasadena and I have a question for Pam.
	Sure.
	I am a doctor of chiropractic and I've been doing a little research on the body-mind-stress relationship to health and the manifestation of illnesses in the body and finding that virtually every one of them has some kind of negative thoughts or negative emotions behind them.
	So my question to you is, Do you remember when you were a child ever having had the wind knocked out of you to where you were not sure you would ever get it back?
	No.
	I do.
	I remember that.
	I was punched in the stomach a few times where I thought, yeah, not possible to take a breath if that's what you're talking about.
	Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
	Oh yeah, I've been there.
	I found three people, so that's why I ask, and I don't know if you have anyone who is alive that you could ask that question of, if when you were a child perhaps that might have happened to you, but I know three people who have had either aneurysms or one was cancer in which they did live through it, but they had all the thing in common that they had had the wind knocked out of them, which means they set a negative thought up in their mind which said, I'm going to die if I do not get my breath back.
	And those literal words were like an energy that was fed up there.
	That's what I'm postulating.
	I'm going to die if I don't get my breath back.
	And then it takes many years before it manifests.
	With these people it took around, you know, 20 some odd years before it manifested.
	And so anyway, that was the question.
	It would be really interesting if you could find from a sister or brother or anyone else that was living if they know if that ever happened to you.
	Right.
	The other comment I had was on where you went when you went out of your body.
	I've done some research on that too.
	I'm actually writing a book called Breaking Age Barriers.
	I think she went everywhere and nowhere into what is real reality.
	Alright, where do you think she went?
	I think she went to, well you know we say that she went some, we call it maybe somewhere
	but I don't think she went anywhere.
	I get that she went everywhere and nowhere into what is real reality.
	We call the physical universe reality but the physicists say it's an illusion because
	you have all these atoms that are filled with space.
	No, no, listen, we'll cut it off there, but it's a very good point.
	In other words, we, tromping around Earth doing whatever we do every day, we think of this as reality.
	But the sense that I got from listening to you, Pam, was that there was a much greater reality, a much heightened sense of consciousness and reality where you were than here.
	Precisely.
	It's a lot more increased.
	I got the feeling coming back into the body and being there a day or two that 99% of the people around me were asleep and the rest of us were in a profound state of shock from what we were seeing.
	It really is more like slumber.
	People sort of like walking around like robots.
	In a dream.
	In a dream, not all that conscious.
	And I think perhaps that's what Joanne is trying to say, that this is the dream, and the real reality happens somewhere else.
	And I would concur with that.
	You know, that kind of makes sense, though.
	If it is a better place, then there is a heightened sense of consciousness of everything, which is a joyful experience.
	Right.
	With me, when I had my little blast in Paris, I just, it was so overwhelming and so shocking that I blasted myself back into my body very, very quickly.
	But boy, talk about an overwhelming, indescribable, I tried to find words for it and tell my audience, and I really couldn't.
	Words don't do it justice.
	Right.
	And the speed at which things seem to happen.
	You think a thing and there you are.
	Whoosh!
	In there.
	Yeah, whoosh!
	Right away, immediately.
	Whoosh, right on.
	And I kind of got the impression that the reason we're in school in these dense bodies Is because you don't give Porsches to three-year-olds.
	Because they can't drive.
	That's right.
	And here we are trying to learn how to operate, trying to allow our consciousness to catch up with our abilities.
	Yes.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Pam Reynolds.
	Hi.
	Yes.
	Hi, Art.
	How are you?
	Okay, sir.
	Hello to you, Pam, too.
	My name's Adam Cohen from L.A.
	Yeah, what struck me the most about what she said was the downloading of information.
	Yes.
	And how, I mean, I've been listening to your show now a couple weeks.
	I'm brand new, but I heard the Sean David Morton show.
	Yes.
	On the remote viewing, and a lot of what she said ties into that.
	Yes.
	My question was, when this downloading, this like open-mindedness, Pam, is this something that's continual now?
	Is this something that goes on?
	I think it's not so much that it's continual.
	I think that my brain, in this dense matter, in this slowed down atmosphere, is taking its time processing the information.
	The information, in other words, is all there.
	It's just that because I'm in a much slower, dense physical environment, it's taking me longer to download it.
	And some of this information then, as time goes on, is becoming more clear to you?
	Exactly.
	Exactly.
	It seems to pop up as I need it.
	That's my other question was how clear is it?
	It's like when you have a dream, when you awake immediately you have this very vivid image of what the dream was and as it goes you sort of lose it.
	I guess this is the opposite.
	Exactly.
	It's sort of like you took a picture and now you're able to examine the details of the picture.
	And it's all as if it's happening right now.
	It's not a memory of an event that happened ten years ago, it's an event that's ongoing.
	That's really, really fascinating.
	Yeah, it is, it is.
	Go ahead.
	I'm sorry, go ahead.
	I was just completely floored by the similarities in what she said about her, I don't want to call them predictions, so much as, you know, what she saw in her downloading and the similarities in the remote viewing that Sean was talking about.
	And Danion and others, yes, it completely floored me as well as I listened.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	That's why I believe it's physical law.
	Physical law is whether or not you believe it.
	If it is, then it is the same for everyone.
	The sun comes up, and the sun is the sun, whether or not you believe it.
	That's right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Pam Reynolds.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Kathy in Oklahoma City.
	How are you doing, Kathy?
	Good.
	And Pam, I have two questions for you.
	I saw a program on television, Discovery, for 48 Hours, where at the very end, you were telling your story, and you said, when you met up with your relatives, You felt as though you were standing in the breath of God, and it caused me to basically jump up and go, she's right, she's right.
	It was just something that I knew instinctively was correct.
	Do you want to talk about that a little?
	Standing in the breath of God?
	Yes.
	As I told Art just a little while ago, when I asked the nature of the light, it was explained to me that the light was not in and of itself God, but it was what happened when he respirated.
	Right.
	And at that time, at that exact moment, I thought, wow!
	I'm standing in the breath of God.
	Okay, so someone told you before you said that then?
	Yes, well it was communicated to me when I was on the other side.
	Right, and I feel that that is very correct.
	I don't know why, just instinctively.
	My second question is, with everything that you've been through in your life, the way you were raised and now what you've gone through, do you feel or do you know whether or not the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ is relevant Or important, should be paid attention to?
	Well, I think everything is important to be paid attention to.
	I mean, his claims that we're sinners in need of reconciliation with God and that reconciliation was done through his death.
	In other words, a pretty hardcore stuff here, Pam, in other words, is everything that we're taught, as was just laid out, was that like I never saw Jesus or God, but I can tell you it's my personal belief that God is a whole lot more forgiving than we are and that we have to come to grips with ourselves and be the kind of people that we have to become what is good in our eyes.
	told at all about what would be beyond where you were, or just that you could not go there?
	Just that I could not go there.
	And the message that I got was that I probably couldn't wrap my mind around what was over there.
	Oh really?
	And throw it back into the body.
	I think that it's just so incredible I couldn't get my mind around it.
	And your sense was that there was one other level or one other place beyond where you were or many places beyond?
	Worlds within worlds.
	No, I had a sense of vast, huge, different places for different people at different stages of development.
	I still had that strong sense.
	Some of us, well, we're all still learning on a level.
	I don't believe the educational process stops when you die.
	It certainly didn't for me.
	It seems to have begun.
	There are many people in the world who believe in reincarnation, that souls come back to earth for another shot.
	Any indication that that would or wouldn't be true?
	I don't personally have any experience with reincarnation, so I cannot confirm or deny that that is or is not true.
	It wasn't part of your experience?
	But I can tell you I have a very strong sense that I'm older than the stars.
	And I'll probably be here long after they all burn out.
	So, whatever that means.
	This is all post the procedure, right?
	Or did you have these same feelings?
	No, this is all as a direct result of what happened to me.
	All right.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Pam Reynolds.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Art.
	Hi there.
	Good morning, Pam.
	Good morning.
	This is Kathy in Phoenix, Arizona, and I Worked in a lowly position at the Barrow Neurological Institute between 1964 and 1974.
	Hi Kathy!
	Your family!
	Well, in a way.
	At the time, I'll give you a thumbnail background here to my question.
	At the time I worked right next to the research lab and someone somewhere offered a huge reward for Anyone who could prove the existence of a soul.
	And there was much research done around the world and there was finally a book published and of course no one proved anything.
	But it was very interesting.
	It was something that I would like to have heard more about but never did.
	But my question in that respect is, I didn't understand you to say that when you were out of your body that you were actually a soul or that you were just a conscious entity of some sort?
	No, I was definitely a soul.
	There were some physical properties to that soul.
	Not like this body, but there were definite physical properties and sensations.
	But this was something, if I understand correctly, that you You sensed more than you saw.
	In other words, I'm told people who lose their arm still have the exact feeling that their arm is there.
	Right?
	Right.
	In that sense?
	Well, more than that.
	It's as if every cell of my body contained my sensory abilities.
	Instead of seeing with the eyes, I saw with every cell, every piece of essence of myself.
	Provided that vision.
	Well, don't you think that I don't remember when first OBEs came around, but prior to listening to Art Bell, I had never heard of them before.
	And I was wondering if this is a new phenomenon or if it's something that is old as the hills.
	You know, I couldn't answer that question.
	I'm not really a student of these things.
	A poor innocent bystander to happen to.
	Well, my feeling is that these OBEs do definitely prove that there is a soul.
	I think so too.
	Whatever the purpose of that soul is.
	Yes, what we're hearing this morning from Pam really does sound like pretty solid proof to me.
	Absolutely.
	I'm sitting here trying to decide how to knock holes in it, but you know, she was able to articulate what went on during the operation.
	That's impossible.
	I mean, that's absolutely flat impossible.
	Her heart was stopped.
	Her blood was gone.
	Her brain waves were zipped.
	So that's impossible?
	Pam, did you discuss any of this soul business or what you actually were when you were out of the body with your doctor?
	Not at great length.
	I was, to tell you the truth, I treated it with a great deal of humor, assuming that everyone did that, and of course he knew all about it.
	Oh, he did?
	Well, I thought he did, but apparently this is a very unusual case.
	He, of course, at a time when my body was in such a state of shock, and that terrible shock had gone on, he was real interested in saving my life, so he didn't spend a lot of time discussing the fine points with me.
	But Pam, when you told him what you told him, and you said you told him almost immediately afterwards, did you have the sense that even though an eyebrow went up, you said, did you have the sense that he'd heard some of these stories before?
	Um, I didn't get the sense that he hadn't.
	I got the sense that he believed me totally and completely.
	Oh, really?
	Immediately.
	And I have no way of knowing why he believed me.
	Other than, like I said, I assumed that, um, his being in touch with life and death every day, I assumed that this was a common occurrence.
	Um, and would later find out, au no contraire.
	Not with this operation.
	Uh-huh.
	Anything else, caller?
	No, I thank you very much, both of you.
	Thank you, Kathy.
	Thank you.
	Do you still follow up?
	Does this doctor stay in touch with you at all?
	Well, yes, I do see him.
	I just saw him last time I saw him, let's see, it was a year ago, November.
	Well, do me a favor.
	The next time you see him, tell him I would like to speak with him.
	Would you?
	I'd love to.
	As a matter of fact, you know, Barrow Institute does have a foundation.
	And we do whatever we can to raise money for ongoing research.
	Alright.
	I'm sure.
	Well, that would give them a great reason to be here, wouldn't it?
	Right.
	I'm sure we could talk some of these guys into coming and spending some time with you.
	Alright, let's do that.
	right hold on worth bottom of the hour this is one of the folks who's
	I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	you're listening to art bell somewhere in time tonight featuring a replay of
	coast to coast am from december sixth two thousand one
	it the
	the the
	Ain't Heaven's better than all the other things rock and roll.
	Yeah, but just ain't everywhere, just ain't now.
	Nothing ever breaks, except the heart that came out of Jesus
	Nights in white satin, never reaching the end Letters I've written
	you Never meaning to send
	Beauty out of ways is With these eyes divorced
	Just what the truth is I can't say it anymore
	Cause our love is just our love Oh, our love
	Gazing at people Some hand in hand
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from December 6th, 2001.
	Can't understand Some tried to tell me
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from December 6th,
	2001.
	Really dead and gone for an hour. A full hour.
	No brainwaves.
	No blood.
	No heartbeat.
	Nothing.
	Gone.
	And yet, she was there.
	My guest is Pam Reynolds, and we've got another segment coming up immediately.
	stay right where you are once again and reynolds and uh... cam who explain what the
	barrel institute is What can you tell me about that?
	The Barrow Institute is a Full Service Neurology Institute.
	They do an awful lot of work with the brain.
	The foundation supports, for instance, the Muhammad Ali Parkinson's research.
	Yes.
	Research on epilepsy, anything and everything having to do with the brain.
	Okay.
	I have a number here, too.
	So do I. Somebody passed it on to me.
	Great!
	Would that number happen to be 1-800?
	Four, seven, five, seven, one, six, one.
	Perfect.
	Thank you.
	Really?
	Or, for those who want to contribute online, they can go to my website at pamrentels.com, click on a message from Pam, and that will give you a link that will take you directly to the contribution page.
	Well, let me see.
	Do we have pamrentels.com up there?
	No, we don't.
	Well, we do have an angiogram image letter document.
	Oh, no, we have www.near-death.com, reynolds.html.
	That's an article that was written by an independent NDE.
	Oh, my God!
	My website is pamreynolds.com.
	Pam, I'm looking at the angiogram.
	I should have done this.
	Oh, my God!
	That was it, huh?
	That was it.
	Can you imagine a thing like that exploding?
	Gosh, folks, if you want to see this, this is astounding to see.
	Go to my website, rpl.com, under program, click on tonight's guest info, and then click on angiogram image.
	And first of all, Pam, the first comment I would have is, how could a blood vessel that relatively thin produce something that big without killing you first?
	Well, that was no vessel.
	That was an artery.
	I know, but it's relative size in the angiogram is clear compared to the balloon size.
	Absolutely.
	Yes, it's a wonder that I survived long enough to be a beneficiary of this remarkable surgery.
	I would think any jarring of the head would have killed you.
	Exactly.
	The slightest tap.
	Holy smokes!
	Oh, this is just a remarkable image.
	People are going to have to get up to the website and see it.
	Yeah.
	Okay, if people call the Barrow Institute, they can what?
	The idea is to contribute or to become part of something?
	Yes, the idea is we have people manning the phones to make contributions for the foundation, and the foundation does fund research.
	Okay.
	The ongoing research, which has to do with all kinds of things.
	Parkinson's disease, epilepsy.
	It has to do with the brain.
	They're researching it, and they are on the cutting edge.
	You can look at my case and cases like mine to know that.
	As a matter of fact, your case was one of the earliest ones ever, but I understand there have been about a hundred, which really isn't that many since.
	I mean, yours was ten years ago, so about a hundred since yours, huh?
	Right.
	Very successful surgeries, I might add.
	People have been returned to relatively normal lives.
	If they find it.
	You're going to write a book?
	You're writing a book?
	Yes, I am.
	My book will be available for presentation early in 2002, January, February.
	What are you going to call it?
	I'm not sure yet.
	I'm thinking 15 Seconds That Changed My Life.
	That would be good.
	Or maybe Death Experience.
	You probably want a title that pretty much says I'm calling from Anchorage, Alaska.
	one or another right but you can come up with i'm sure you'll get lots of
	suggestions for titles uh... but will get that you said pam reynolds dot com
	okay keep you listening pam reynolds dot com if you get the link of please okay
	uh... onto the phone very quickly uh... wildcard liner on the air with pam reynolds high
	uh... hello yes ma'am
	i'm calling from a great welcome and a minute definitely first i want to say thanks to you art for doing stuff like
	this because it is so beneficial to so many of us
	who are going through stuff like this It's so important that people like us are reached out to us because we feel so alone at times.
	And I'm really jealous of Ramona, because she got to you before I did.
	I was in a car accident in 1969 and I was pronounced dead on the scene and they brought
	me back to life.
	They took me to JFK Hospital, the same place that they found the anthrax place.
	Oh, yes.
	And they brought me back to life, and they kept me.
	I was in a coma, and I got transferred to another hospital, 14 years old.
	Oh!
	But during my coma of two weeks, I got to see Jesus and my dad, who died when I was nine.
	And they told me my work was not done here.
	And I have given birth to six children.
	Good for you.
	They were sure right about the work not being done.
	Yeah, the work not being done.
	I have two sons serving in the military right now.
	One's off the coast of Pakistan.
	Hope he hears me now.
	I mean, and then the other son, not serving, he's in the Army, God bless his soul, because this child was diagnosed ten years ago with cancer, brain cancer, and it was temporal lobe.
	They did brain surgery.
	They got it.
	And he wanted to serve and he left me a year ago in October.
	Well, that's a remarkable story.
	We're talking to an awful lot of lucky people tonight.
	Most people who end up with brain cancer or an embolism like I'm looking at right now on the screen, they don't make it.
	So we have to depend on so few like you, Pam, who have been there and have been back.
	I've always been interested, fascinated with near-death experiences, but yours goes way beyond, and there's almost no way to deny the obvious.
	If there is a way, I can't find it, and neither can many, many, many researchers who have given it their best try for ten years.
	And you've thought, I'm sure, heavily about this since trying to shoot holes in it yourself.
	Exactly.
	And the reason I waited so long to come out with a book myself is because I wanted to give science every opportunity to explain this thing.
	Well, if I manage to get your doctor on the air, and I ask him Um, how can you, what can you tell me about her ability to describe what went on during the operation and period of time when she had absolutely no brain waves whatsoever?
	How can you rationalize, how have you rationalized that?
	How can you explain it?
	What do you think he would say?
	Well, if I know Dr. Spetzler, he would say there are so many things about the brain that we do not understand.
	But a lot of these things are knowable.
	And we're right in the middle of doing an awful lot of relevant research to find out about the brain and how it functions, and hopefully we'll be able to unlock the door to some of these answers.
	Well, I wonder.
	I mean, the brain is one thing, and many people feel the soul or the spirit, and they may be separate or the same, are altogether something else, and maybe they cannot know about that or will not know about that.
	Who knows?
	But I know they are making progress, so maybe they can be answered.
	I have a theory about that.
	I believe that the soul plugs into the brain.
	I believe that there is a symbiotic relationship between the soul and the brain.
	I don't think we'll ever really fully understand the nature of the soul on a physical level, but I do believe that the brain is knowable.
	These are things that we can research and understand and find out, and we can use to benefit humanity and cure disease and end suffering.
	And I think if nothing else comes out of my story.
	So, the soul might be like a Netscape plug-in.
	There you go!
	That's a very good analogy.
	I don't know about that.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Pam.
	Hi.
	Pam?
	Yes.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi, sir.
	Pam, I'd like to ask a question, if possible.
	You say you were out for the operation for an hour.
	Approximately how long, or if they told you, how long were you in recovery before you were actually able to speak again?
	I spoke immediately.
	Immediately?
	Did the doctor explain to you how they resuscitated your brain and you didn't have any memory loss at all?
	No, they didn't explain anything to me, but I didn't have any memory loss at all.
	That's amazing.
	No memory loss, no loss in IQ, no loss in mental function.
	That is amazing.
	I mean, that's just amazing.
	Even my pitch remained perfect.
	That is absolutely astounding.
	All right, sir.
	Thank you very much.
	Bye-bye.
	Thank you for the call.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Pam Reynolds.
	Hi.
	Hi, this is Gary from Redmond.
	Art, thank you for a most extraordinary interview.
	You're very welcome.
	Pam, I must congratulate you.
	I think you have tremendous strength and courage, and I thank you for coming back to tell us your story.
	Thank you, Gary.
	I'm impressed by the fact that you mentioned the year 2012.
	As Art knows, the late, great Terrence McKenna thought there would be a change of consciousness.
	I'm wondering what else you could tell us about how you arrived at that date.
	What else do you think mankind should do to prepare for what's coming and how we might survive it and what this consciousness change might mean for us?
	I can't tell you reasonably how I arrived at that date.
	It's just something that's in me that I know.
	Do you recall whether this was something you immediately recalled, or did this come to you in the last few years?
	No, that was pretty immediate.
	Pretty immediate that we would have some huge changes around that time.
	I tell people, and it's the truth, I'm in a time warp.
	Time really doesn't have any meaning for me, so the mere fact that the number Do you have any idea what this might mean for us on the other side of this chain?
	It means what we make it mean.
	The future is an X variable.
	It's undefined in as much as it's going to be what we make it.
	We can say for a certainty that if we do this, this will happen.
	But I think the reason people like me are given understanding like this is so that we can prepare and make those changes.
	And on the upside, what I'm seeing in our government right now, and in the unity of our people right now, is uplifting, and it helps me sleep at night, and I really feel like we're on the right direction to surviving whatever comes at us.
	It might not be so in other countries, but as for America, And our citizens, I think we are really getting it.
	We're coming together for the first time in a long time.
	We're standing together in all of our diversity and individuality.
	We're putting aside our differences, and we're standing together for the benefit of our people.
	Well, that's a good thing, because you apparently see some travails ahead.
	I definitely do, but I think we're going to make it.
	I think we're going to be fine.
	All right.
	Anything else, caller?
	Let's hope that's a great opportunity for the whole world.
	Yes, sir.
	Thank you very much, and take care.
	First Time Caller line, you're on the air with Pam.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello.
	Hello, Pam.
	Thanks for taking my call.
	I've got a couple questions here for you, Pam, and real quick, I'll go ahead and ask them and hang up and listen.
	That's okay.
	You said that you weren't afraid before you went into the operation.
	You weren't afraid to die, but what you were afraid of was leaving your children behind?
	Yes.
	When you were on the other side, did you have any feelings of Remorse or sadness or anything like that, that you were leaving your children behind at that time?
	No.
	As a matter of fact, when I came back to the body, I completely changed my mind.
	I looked at that body and I thought, you know what?
	My kids are going to do fine.
	I'm not getting in that thing.
	So it's more of a hope and more of a positive type of attitude towards your children.
	Absolutely.
	Um, did you happen to have any feelings of that things that you had left things undone here in this light on the other side?
	Yes, I did.
	All right.
	Well, that probably went along with you can't go any further than this.
	Probably.
	And I feel like the decision to return was made before I ever went in the first place.
	All right.
	Caller.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Take care of wildcard line.
	You're on the air with Pam Reynolds.
	Hello.
	How you doing, Art, Pam?
	A couple quick questions.
	Actually, just one quick question.
	Pam, did you ever have a sense of animals, like lost pets, pets that you might have lost in your lifetime?
	You know, to maybe answer that question, do animals have souls?
	That's a real good question.
	I did not see Tiger.
	I lost my puppy from my childhood after I was married.
	He lived a long time.
	I didn't see him.
	But to be honest with you, I wasn't really thinking about him.
	We're expecting to see him.
	So I can't really answer that question, yay or nay.
	My gut feeling is they must.
	It's kind of a qualified nay.
	But you think animals do probably have souls, then?
	I think so.
	I think anyone who's had a beloved pet can concur with that.
	And I do.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Pam Reynolds.
	Where are you, please?
	Hello.
	Hey, this is Mike.
	I'm calling from Austin, Texas.
	Okay.
	Hey, Art.
	I love your show, man.
	Thank you.
	You've filled many nights with great entertainment.
	I just want to say I've had a lot of strange experiences in my life.
	I've been diagnosed as schizophrenic, but right now I'm on antidepressants.
	I've kind of experienced everything you've talked about, Pam, in a couple months' time.
	I had a lot of sleep deprivation and I felt like remote viewers were communicating with me and following me around.
	I about lost my mind, but I didn't.
	I'm pretty much normal now.
	I'm on antidepressants.
	I feel the next level that you were going to go to after you were saying there was more to be seen.
	is that you kind of said it yourself when you said, yourselves sensed everything, you sensed everything.
	Remember that?
	I feel like pretty much that we will find ourselves alone in the darkness and we will be God
	and then create our own universe.
	Well, you know, I want to say something about what he just said.
	He was in another place, obviously, and we have concocted drugs to bring people back
	to what we call normal.
	But, you know... Whatever that is.
	Yeah, whatever that is.
	That's right, but we're the ones setting up this measuring stick for what normal is, and we have concocted the drugs that will drag somebody back to that point.
	I'm just, I'm not so sure about This word normal, are you?
	I'm not at all, no.
	I think normal is a huge variable.
	Because all of it, we're not cookie cutter people.
	We are each and every one of us individual, and we each and every one of us have our own place.
	Yes.
	And it's our responsibility to fill that thing that we were here for.
	And it's not that God didn't take a cookie cutter when he made us.
	And there's got to be a reason for that.
	There has to be.
	That's pretty comforting.
	This entire program has been really comforting to do it with you.
	Pam, I have a feeling a lot of other people will feel the same way.
	When your book comes out, most people won't come on the air with this sort of thing until they actually are in the business of promoting their book.
	So when your book does come out, You be really sure and call me.
	Get a hold of me and I will have you back on the air.
	Would you do that?
	Yes, sir.
	We would love to do that.
	All right.
	Well, it's been the most incredible interview of its type that I've ever done, Pam.
	And it's been nothing but a pleasure for us as well, Art.
	Thanks so much for having us.
	Thank you and good night.
	Good night, dear.
	Well, that certainly ought to give you all a little something to think about, hmm?
	Hehehehe.
	Open lines tomorrow night.
	Maybe a special line, if you suggest one, I don't know.
	For now, from the high desert, I'm Art Bell.

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