Joshua P. Warren, paranormal investigator and author of How to Hunt Ghosts (fall 2003), details North Carolina’s Brown Mountain Lights—mysterious orbs documented since the 1800s by agencies like the Smithsonian—while debunking crop circle links but acknowledging UFO sightings and hollow-mountain theories tied to reclusive researcher Ralph Lell’s disputed claims. Using tools like EMF meters (detecting bursts up to 50 milligauss) and electrostatic "ghost bait," Warren captures phenomena such as blue-gray mist, drumming sounds, and shapeshifting entities, including a South Jersey caller’s three-day ordeal ending in hospitalization. Skeptical yet open-minded, he explores whether consciousness survives death or if human perception—boosted by tech like Sony Night Shot cameras—reveals unseen forces, questioning if prayer or focused intent alters reality, as hinted by callers and the Global Consciousness Project’s 9/11-linked findings. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, whatever the case may be, wherever you are in all 24 time zones, it's great to be here.
I'm Mark Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
I'd like to say hello to WNAX, a brand new affiliate, WNAX in Yankton, South Dakota.
And I'd like to say hi to the GM there, David Hondstadt.
Hi, David.
Thank you for getting us on for the people in the Yankton area.
And no doubt with that power, 5,000 watts on 570 on the dial, probably most of South Dakota.
Great to have you, as the affiliates continue to grow and grow.
All right, let us first take a look at the war news, such as it is.
Anti-Taliban troops hunting for terrorist suspect Osama bin Laden said they clashed Tuesday with al-Qaeda fighters near hideouts in the Towering Mountains along the Pakistani border.
Hundreds of fighters piled into trucks and headed to the White Mountains south of Jalalabad for the battle.
Provincial Security Chief Hazarat Ali said he was assembling a force of about 3,000 more men to join in the hunt for bin Laden.
Now, CNN is reporting tonight something pretty worrisome that the Taliban is now said to be in possession of a dirty atomic bomb.
Now, what this apparently means is you get a high-grade fissionable material, probably spent fuel rods, uranium fuel rods, or something, you know, whatever you can get your rotten little hands on, and you pack dynamite inside and you blow all the radiation all over the place.
Now, I guess it would depend on what grade and what type of material is used, but that would be bad, to be sure.
President Bush went to Florida and assured people out of work that essentially he feels their pain, he used hurt, he feels their hurt, but at the same time does not support any government help for the struggling tourism industry.
And I guess I, in general, agree with that.
I wouldn't want to see the government help the tourist industry, but I sure do want to see the tourist industry get better.
And I'm not sure what it's going to take.
I suppose bin Laden's head on a stick will be a good start.
People are afraid to fly.
They're afraid to go out.
They're afraid to leave their home.
They're afraid to do almost everything.
And people are expecting, and for one reason, because the government continues to issue alerts, they are expecting something else to happen.
And I'm not necessarily criticizing the government's issuance of these alerts.
I've thought a lot about that.
And even as they give them non-specific but credible, they always say, I guess it's better they do it than they don't, I suppose.
You know, it's a close call, and I'm sure it is for them, too.
Afghanistan's post-Taliban political course is being set now.
A UN spokesman said Wednesday that Afghan negotiators were near agreement on some sort of power-sharing plan.
There are about four factions that are going to get together and share power, and rarely does that work.
And again, I express my worry that I wonder if the new guys are going to be any better than the old guys.
The Environmental Protection Agency today ordered tons of PCBs removed from New York's upper Hudson River, setting in motion one of the largest dredging operations in our nation's history.
General Electric Company, which dumped it said 1.3 million pounds of PCBs into the river before the substance was banned by the federal government in 77, bitterly opposes the dredging.
Could cost the company about half a billion dollars, $500 million, so I'm sure they do oppose it.
Rain clouds over the launch pad forced NASA to call off today's liftoff of Space Shuttle Endeavour on a flight to deliver a new crew to the International Space Station.
It was the latest delay for an Endeavour rather in its and its seven astronauts.
Held up, you recall, last week by Space Station Trouble.
They couldn't dock.
They were worried about a collision of some sort.
This next item is going to shock.
It's going to really shock you.
I wonder how many of you remember if you're old enough rooting for Bobby Fisher.
Do you remember Bobby Fisher, the grand champion of chess?
Who played Boris Basket?
You remember that?
Oh, what a world-class event that was, huh?
And Americans cheered Bobby Fisher worldwide.
Remember?
Well, if you're old enough, you remember.
Listen to this.
It's from the UK Telegraph, very respected publication in the United Kingdom.
Prepare yourself.
Bobby Fisher, the reclusive American chess grandmaster, has broken years of silence to support, now listen, to support the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
The Telegraph has discovered that Mr. Fisher gave an interview to an obscure radio station in the Philippines hours after the events on September 11th.
Mr. Fisher is already wanted for questioning by the FBI for breaking U.N. sanctions by taking part in a chess match in Serbia against Boris Bassky in 1992 his first in 20 years in an interview on September 11th with Radio Bombo in Bagua City mr. Fisher said quote this is all wonderful news it is time to finish off the US once and for
all I was happy and could not believe what was happening all the crimes the U.S. has committed in the world this just shows what goes around comes around even to the U.S. I applaud the act the U.S. and Israel have been slaughtering the Palestinians for years now it's coming back at the U.S. Mr. Fisher 58 also attacked Israel and Jews who he claimed were responsible
for bringing the attack on the World Trade Center.
He gave the interview because he is a friend of the station manager there.
Last night, Mr. McCurdo confirmed he took the call from Mr. Fisher and then later interviewed him on the air, live on the air.
He's met Mr. Fisher on several previous occasions with Mr. Torrey.
Mr. McCurdo said, Torrey is the station manager.
McCurdo said, Bobby rang me up while he was watching the events in New York, live on TV.
He felt so strongly about what he was watching, he wanted to say the American government had it coming to them.
And there's more to the story, but that's quite enough, is it not, for you.
Bobby Fisher, can you believe it?
If you would like to read the entire story, we've got a link to the UK story.
On our website, you get there, of course...
by going to artbell.com and uh just go up toward the uh what's new and go up instead of down and when you do you'll see news and other websites and we'll have the link right there for you I just I just I couldn't believe this I couldn't believe it when I read it but I'm sorry it is true do you remember last night a young man called about
hearing voices it's a very interesting call actually and promoted a lot of later comment and and I've got quite a bit of comment for you as a matter of fact on it so
so I guess I really ought to just I had to go ahead and read these although what I really ought to do is first take a take a quick break if I can get it together here and then when I come back we'll we'll talk a little bit about this voices in the night in the head in the ear whatever you want to call it people think automatically you're talking to some kind of a nut but
judging from the amount of response I had after listening to that young man last night and that's what we do here rather than automatically label anybody and not for what they're saying we listen to what they're saying and then a lot of times we get on to stories that other people ignore because they don't listen to people like that here we do more of that in a moment all right here we go after the call last night there was discussion on the air about
this young man who heard in that little gray area between sleep or between you know consciousness and sleep you're in a particularly interesting vulnerable state and he said he heard a cacophony of voices thousands of voices and then it
would fade down to one voice which he really could not understand and and so came all these emails here's uh one from debbie i know what that young man was talking about when he described lots of voices right before falling asleep and these voices aren't speaking words that are intelligible sometimes it's one single voice and you hear your name but you don't understand anything else that's being said i used to have that very
badly when i was a kid probably from about age eight or so through my middle teens it's very strange and definitely very disturbing in my case certain words would be repeated in these episodes it was like a recurring nightmare in a way because it often made it difficult for me to go back to sleep usually kind of like uh the caller was saying it would dwindle down to only one voice before it stopped or this one hello there was a guy who
called your show last night between 10 and 10 30 who said that he heard voices hundreds of them but sometimes only one voice and it called his name i began to experience this also at about age 14 in the months of june july and august three years before it started i had a friend who was shot and killed the voice always sounded like hers to me it would call my name over and over and
over for hours with the occasional come to me thrown in as long as i was busy with school i never heard it i dreamed i i rather dreaded the summer months for i knew it would start again that's from kimberly you know and i could go on and on and on like that so not everybody who hears voices is
schizophrenic maybe there's something else going on out there but of course anytime you hear anybody say that you automatically assume schizophrenia or something like it and maybe it just isn't so
and maybe because people do make those assumptions about somebody who would make a statement like that people don't make them now of course they'll talk to me about this sort of thing because i will listen but a lot of other people are instantly judgmental
you know the stories just simply never get told a little later tonight we're going to be talking about all kinds of interesting things to be talking about UFOs The paranormal.
Mostly, I suppose, the paranormal like the Brown Mountain Lights.
Yeah, and had worked with project physicist Otto Kraus.
Something I wanted to comment about last night, I've been in the audio business as an engineer for most of my life since I left the test site, and I'm considered one of the leading experts in subliminal audio.
I did the Nightingale Connet Subliminal Winter album with Dennis Whateley.
Right.
And have done a number of other things.
But what you were trying to think of was a Trenton, New Jersey situation with 1956 with the movie Picnic when they edited Eat Coke and I mean Eat Popcorn and Drink Coca-Cola.
Yes, but I believe there are laws with regard to broadcast.
unidentified
No, what happened is about eight years or ten years ago, the FCC came out and said advertisers should not use subliminal messages on knowingly or otherwise they're in danger of losing their license.
It was never a law, it was a threat that they come out with and said.
And one of the things that they can do now with video, it's the same thing that I can do with audio, which is they can video the image in behind the image that's there.
You never see it, or like you never hear it with mine, until you remove the primary.
once you remove the primary there's the visual or the audio of the secondary immediately and you know uh i did a lot of research with uh I asked Dr. Biggich and I'm going to ask you, what can you tell me about the effectiveness of subliminal messages?
He talked about, you know, the anti-shoplifting stuff and how effective that was.
unidentified
Right, that's all worked fine.
I mean, it works great.
We have a test that we go in and to a conference room with a corporate conference room.
We tell the head of the corporation or a couple other people what this message is going to be playing under music and what to watch for.
And in five minutes, everybody in there will be doing this.
And I'll give you an example.
If you follow along, spell the word POTS like in flower pots.
P-O-T-S.
Now say it.
POTS.
Now spell it again.
P-O-T-S.
Now answer me this question as soon as I ask you.
What's the first thing you do when you come to green light?
But if you turn either one of those words around, and that's why, like, so many of the rock groups have actually got very sophisticated with using this where they decide what they want to say backwards and know how to say it frontwards, like the Eagles did in Hotel California album.
All right, here he is once again, our Area 51 caller.
Glad to have you back.
You know, remind me.
Okay, well, continue.
Your mom, you said.
unidentified
Yeah, well, anyway, she read the article.
The article is the front page of the Farmington Daily Times, and it said that there had been a crash between Farmington and Aztec at Hart Canyon, which is an area that's a friend of mine and I rode our horses out there all the time.
Right.
And that the plane had crashed, the UFO had crashed.
It had a pinhole in the porthole, and there were three charred bodies inside that were about four foot high in stature.
And so anyway, the next day it came out and said that this was a hoax.
There wasn't nothing to it.
And so my friend and I decided that we'd ride our horses out there come Saturday morning and see what was going on because occasionally you might see a set of Jeep tracks out in that area, but you never really saw many tracks or anything.
So we rode out there.
When we got out there, there were tracks everywhere.
There was all kind of truck tracks and Jeep, car tracks, whatever it was.
And it looked like they had a circus out there or something with the amount of tracks there were.
So anyway, I went on to go to work for Lawrence Radiation Laboratory.
I did not work at Area 51.
I went to Area 51 on occasion.
But I actually worked for the Lawrence Radiation Laboratory, University of California, and I was in the diagnostic photography department out there and was assigned to project physicist Otto Krauss, which is one of the German scientists that we had.
And so a lot of times we'd have to stay out there and do dry runs before shots to make sure all the scope traces and all that things were up to par.
And we would play cards.
Otto was a great heart player.
So we'd play hearts to pass the time.
And we got in this night was me and Otto and Rufus Bond, this friend of mine, and two or three other people, an MJ-12 guy.
And we were playing cards, and the thing come up about the UFOs that we saw around there, the photography department was the only one without binoculars at the moment.
And him and the other guy both said to me, and at the time, it didn't really register on me until the night you played the MJ-12 stuff and all.
And then I realized what they meant by what they said.
But I was just a 22-year-old kid out there at the time.
And why I was in charge of what I was in charge of at 22 years old, I look back and go, man, I can't believe that they put me in charge of something like that for that young of age.
But they both said, you remember that?
And I thought they were meaning because I was young, I remembered that.
But now I don't think that's what they meant at all.
I think they meant that I don't remember that because nobody else in Farmington remembers this paper.
And I've tried to find it a number of times.
I've had my mom go to libraries.
There's like a week of the Daily Times missing.
Nobody, friends of mine that I know would have kept something like that, they don't remember it.
his friend of mine don't remember right now if they're on the horse with me you know and uh...
And it wouldn't surprise me to see North Korea make a move while we're involved so heavily in Afghanistan and while the Middle East is right on the brink.
It would make all the sense in the world, of course.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, and he made a statement in April, and December was the eight-month minimum, so here we are, and the Japanese cut off these laundering money operations that were laundering billions to the North Koreans, kind of like what Bush did today with Hamas.
And Kim Neil's son has just been going nuts ever since we sent these additional fighter aircraft over.
But the reason we sent them over is because the Kitty Hawk is right off Pakistan.
And let me follow up with something somebody sent me earlier, a fact somebody sent me.
Aren't looking at the language of Israel's declaration of the PLO as a terror-sponsoring entity, it looks as if Israel is going to topple the whole regime.
Today, in the U.S., we froze Hamas Foundation money, which makes the U.S. and Israel look like blood brothers in the eyes of the Muslim world and will give the terrorist organization Hamas reason to launch attacks in the U.S. The entire Middle East is well on its way to a regional war,
and this is not even taking into consideration our own war on terror with fugitive targets including Iraq, possibly Syria, and Iran.
The war dice are rolling ominously, and the atomic clock is about five till the top of the hour.
And I could not agree with that more.
The war dice indeed are rolling ominously, and there is a lot going on.
I just had a, well, I had a dream on Saturday night that I was being attacked by the devil, and I was awakened abruptly by my phone ringing, and later that day I noticed that my bicep, my left, my right bicep was sore.
And now I've developed bruises in the shape of handprints on my right bicep, my left thigh, and I have a large thumbprint bruise on my left forearm.
Would there be any change in your surroundings, in your reality, in your environment?
Would anything change if a million people crossed at the same time?
If 100 people in a plane crashed at the same time and all crossed at the exact same moment, would there be any type of consciousness transferral where you wouldn't even notice anything happened?
Would you just continue on in some vein of the universe that allowed for nothing to really have happened?
Actually, a paranormal investigator, but I specialize in ghost research, but I'm open-minded about taking a look at anything which defies the understanding of conventional science.
Well, the Brown Mountain Lights are unexplained illuminations that have appeared on and around a ridge in the Pisgah National Forest in Burke County, North Carolina, for perhaps as long as 800 years.
And they've been investigated at least three times by the United States government, twice by the U.S. Geological Survey, once by the Weather Service.
Well, there are many tales about the lights appearing in different fashions and different forms.
But I'll tell you basically how they appear.
They are balls of light, not necessarily spheres, but orbicular lights.
They've been reported in virtually all colors.
And sometimes one or two lights will appear on this ridge and sit there and flare brightly and then die back down and then disappear.
Other times they do even stranger things.
For example, sometimes two or three lights will sort of congregate and then one light will divide into several smaller lights.
These smaller lights will sort of orbit around each other or so it appears and then they actually line up and move in a line from right to left usually across this ridge until they disappear over the top.
Well, you know, I've heard lots of tales about unexplained lights appearing at those areas, but I've never heard the specific descriptions about the movement of the light.
So those types of lights lining up, for example, are described with crop circles?
Small lights flitting about and then the instant appearance of a crop circle.
Now, I'm not sure if it's the same.
we're talking about the same thing here but this has been going on for so long uh...
do you split Do you think it's a natural occurrence, some sort of disturbance from the earth or atmospheric disturbance or something a bit more paranormal?
Well, I personally believe at this point that we're looking at a manifestation of the earth, a natural manifestation, albeit a certainly bizarre one.
And I say that simply because at this point, based upon 10-plus years of research, I've never found any evidence to make me necessarily believe there's any reason to jump to a more supernatural conclusion, so to speak.
But I've addressed theories regarding ball lightning and, of course, marsh gas.
And in fact, if I were to go out on a limb and say that I had a feeling for what the lights might be, I would probably shoot in that direction.
I would say some sort of an electrical plasma.
But of course, again, one of the things that's so fascinating about the lights is no one can say for sure at this point, there's just not enough evidence to conclusively lead us in a particular direction.
And one thing that I noticed shortly after beginning research on the mountain is that there are a lot of faults near the mountain.
Oh.
And so it is possible, even though geologists claim these faults do not currently move, it's possible that if they do move sometimes, and of course, by means of the piezoelectric effect, produce electricity, that might at least play some role in the formation of a plasma.
Well, there are certainly lots and lots of reports of alien-oriented activity taking place around the mountain.
And before I give you some examples, I will also tell you that during an expedition that our team did last month, we actually witnessed and videotaped an unidentified flying object around the mountain, which was not consistent with any of the lights we are used to seeing.
Well, we have certainly examined the video footage frame by frame.
And at this point, we can't conclusively say that we see a particular form or shape or anything that would give us more of a clue of what it is other than just a bright white ball of light.
But I would be happy to send some stills on to you if you'd like to take a look at it.
Well, we are certainly familiar with the traditional aircraft, with airplanes or satellites for that matter, and things which travel horizontally, so to speak, across the sky.
But we have never seen anything quite like that.
And of course, I wouldn't even begin to speculate, but I will tell you about some of the tales that I have been told regarding UFO activity in that area.
A lot of people believe that Brown Mountain is actually hollow, or at least it has hollow portions, and the interior of the mountain serves as some sort of an alien landing base.
And one man who was a great proponent of this idea was a gentleman named Ralph Lell.
Unfortunately, he died some years ago, and I don't have any direct knowledge from what he experienced.
But according to people who knew him and writings that he published, he claimed that he learned to communicate, as he put it, with the lights, that he could ask them questions and they would move in a certain way to answer them.
Until finally one night he followed them through the woods and they led him to a door on Brown Mountain.
That he went into this door where he was greeted by extraterrestrials who told him that they had come here with the purpose of trying to prevent mankind from destroying himself.
They volunteered to take Mr. Lell in their spaceship off to another planet where they told him even more about how mankind was seated onto this planet because we had destroyed another planet we were on.
And strangely enough, after he died, someone or some entity supposedly came in with a bulldozer and wiped out his shop and wiped clean any trace he had ever been there.
And no one seems to know what happened to this mummy.
But I have seen a photograph of it.
And in fact, I am in possession of a photograph, and I'd be happy to send it on to you.
Well, you know, I really haven't formed a particular opinion about him simply because that most of the information I have has come through other people.
And I've never made the effort to try to track down relatives, say, or do something along those lines to find out information directly.
But I think it's certainly compelling that, you know, Mr. Lell had all these stories about experiences and encounters he had, which seem in many ways consistent with what a lot of other people have described.
And then, again, I myself can say that we have documented an unexplainable or at least unidentifiable object flying around up there.
So, you know, it's certainly a compelling situation, if nothing else.
You know, I had a very, very interesting call in the hour prior to your coming on.
I don't know whether you heard it or not.
But a gentleman called and said, if 100,000 or a million people or a multitude of people were to be killed at once in some sort of catastrophic event, you know, a comet slamming into Earth or a big atomic blast or whatever, would they know what instantly would occur?
Obviously, they'd be so instantly dead, they would have probably, if they did have continued consciousness in any form, no idea of what had just happened to them.
I suppose you could ask a question about a single individual dying that quickly, as well as many.
But it does go to what you think about the afterlife.
Do you think the source of these sorts of deaths contribute to ghosts who, frankly, don't know they're dead?
I feel like that if indeed we have a consciousness which transcends this physical body, then it makes sense that under some circumstances when a death occurs, especially if it's fast or it's tragic, that there would be some level of confusion there.
And of course, unfinished business is the classic way of viewing it.
But it seems to me that most of the time when you encounter a haunting or some sort of ghostly activity which is persistent, the personality, so to speak, of the entity involved is a very possessive personality.
It's attached to something of value in this physical world.
Not necessarily money.
It could be anything.
But whatever this entity does not want to leave behind, wants to stick around to be with or be a part of.
It does seem that in some cases, spirits have the ability to travel wherever they choose.
In other cases, like you've just pointed out, it seems like there is some invisible force or invisible principle, if you will, which traps them there.
And we can't really say that we have any evidence to give us an idea about what that is.
But it might have something to do with the fact that when you live in a particular location and you make that your home, you permeate it with your energy, so to speak.
Maybe on an energy level, after you pass on, that area which you have sort of prepared for yourself in life is an easier area for you to reside in.
Maybe there's something that you have literally done to this area in life by your mere presence and by saturating this area with your presence that makes this the spot you have to stay.
I mean, again, we can only speculate, but it's funny to see how that sometimes they do seem to have much more freedom than in other cases.
Here his work have been featured in mainstream periodicals as Southern Living, Delta Sky, Fate, New Woman, New York Times, Something About the Author, a winning of the University of North Carolina Thomas Wolfe Award for Fiction.
He wrote columns and articles for the Asheville Citizen Times from 1992 through 1995.
He's a paranormal investigator.
And we'll get right back to him.
By the way, you know the whole David Blaine levitation thing.
Kurt Jensen called me on the air and said he would send me a video of himself doing what he thinks is the same trick.
And he has done so.
And you really should see it.
It's on my website now.
He says, hey, I spoke to you on the art.
So that I would send you a video of me doing the Balducci levitation that Blaine does on the streets.
Attached is that video.
And again, you must remember you are searching for an explanation for a screenshot from a TV special of Blaine's in which the levitation was exaggerated and rigged for the camera only.
You have my guarantee as a magician that the video you'll see of me doing it is what you really see in person.
Point being, you've been worked over mentally by an inaccurate representation of the levitation thanks to Blaine and the producers of the TV special who thought it would look better to fudge the illusion a bit from reality.
I hope you post this on your site so others can be enlightened on the matter.
And it's a Windows Media Player video, and when you watch it, I really must admit that it does have the exact same Blaine illusion or it creates the illusion.
He points at the rug, he pats the rug, and then he stands facing away from us at sort of a slight angle so as to hide.
And by God, it looks like he's levitating in the air.
It's pretty cool.
So if you want to check that out, you are welcome to.
Thank you very much, Kurt, for sending that along.
That's on the website tonight, right now, in fact.
And it's pretty impressive.
I must say, pretty impressive.
All right, before the break, I was about to break into the old two types of ghost things.
And there are two types, to me, anyway.
Type one, Joshua, seems to be a ghost that does some repeated act as though it was a last act in life.
You know, the lady in the white walking down the road or somebody tromping across the attic in the sound of chains and steps or some act this ghost repeatedly does.
It's kind of like you think of a tape loop over and over again, eternally, in something that must represent some awful hell if there really is a consciousness behind it.
And then there's a second type of ghost that really worries me, and that's the one that appears to have a continued consciousness.
In other words, is able to interact with living people in real time with regard to real ongoing events.
Well, I believe that usually when you have one of these imprints, as I call them, they are associated with an event, generally speaking, which was very intense or traumatic.
And of course, that is not always the case, but that is many times the case.
And it seems like that, well, you see, the interesting thing about that particular type of manifestation is it really tugs at our understanding of physics and time in general.
It's possible that basically these events are so powerful that they imprinted themselves on an environment which we will someday learn is sensitive in the same way that an audio tape is sensitive to electromagnetic energy.
If the environment can be imprinted upon the same way we can imprint upon an audio tape, then something which expands an enormous amount of electromagnetic energy or emotional energy, if you will, might indeed cause an imprint.
Now, of course, that could be an imprint which could only be perceived by someone who has eyes, so to speak, which are sensitive to that, or it could be that anyone is capable of observing that at the right moment when there is a time slip, you might say.
Well, as long as we're on this imprint subject, are you aware of the reports of living ghosts?
In other words, I've had a number of reports and talked to a number of investigators who have investigated ghosts of living people.
You know, like a lady lives in a house for 30 or 40 years, moves out, and then even though she is still alive, living in Toledo now or something, there is still something walking around the house or inhabiting the house that is this lady.
It's usually a case where this apparition is glimpsed, though, instead of an interactive sort of situation.
But if someone lives in a house and really permeates that place with his or her energy, then it's possible they could create an imprint which haunts the house, so to speak, even before they're dead.
Or it could be that someone who has a gift, you might say, has eyes which at certain times are able to see what took place at a location in the past.
And really, you know, it's interesting.
There's a quote by Einstein that always comes to mind when I discuss this topic.
His quote was, the distinction between past, present, and future is only an illusion, however persistent.
And what that would imply is that, so to speak, all time is taking place at once.
We are simply experiencing it little by little.
We are moving through.
And therefore, time is a flexible thing based upon the observer and how that observer is moving through the universe.
And so, of course, you can see the direct correlation there between this idea of ghostly activity via forms of imprints and these concepts about what is time, what is space, and what is our potential to sort of transcend these ideas we have about what is past, present, and future.
Well, the whole subject of time has been an eternal fascination of mine all my life.
All my life.
All right.
I took a call also in the first hour, similar to calls that I have taken recently.
A young lady called, and this will go to at least the second type of ghost and maybe a little further.
But she called and said that she has been attacked by an entity in bed and attacked so severely, Joshua, that she has black and blue marks in the shape of hands on her arms and on her thighs.
And she's going to take photographs for me and send them to me.
As a matter of fact, just last month, I investigated a location in South Carolina where those kinds of attacks have apparently taken place.
And the owners of the location have photographs of themselves with bruises and various types of red markings across throats and things of that nature.
And they have described the same sort of scenario being in bed at night or in the bedroom, whatever the case, and this entity, sometimes visible, sometimes invisible, entering and having his or her way with them.
Well, simply based on what we can document and the evidence that we have, I can't make any distinction at this point between one type of spirit and another.
For example, here in life, I mean, we have people we consider good people and bad people and every shade in between.
And I tend to think of it being the same way in the spirit world.
Now, of course, the difference is, you know, you or I right now could go out and do something horrible, but we choose not to.
Maybe there are some entities which have the power and more importantly, the will to do these evil things, things that we would interpret as evil, but I don't necessarily know that we have any reason to believe that those are a separate type of individual than what was once a human.
Yeah, but wouldn't that sort of ruin our concept of the afterlife?
I mean, somehow, most of us, I think, think that these killers and criminals and really bad, bad people, when they die, unless they repent, if that's what you believe, generally go on to some sort of abysmal hell.
They don't get to continue their crimes and their havoc over on the other side.
I mean, again, all we can really go by, scientifically speaking, is just the evidence.
And, you know, it's, you know, your faith and your idea about what happens is one thing.
But all I know is that we have a great deal of evidence that personalities, if you will, can live on of an evil nature and continue to do negative things to the living.
That's some kind of concept to consider, that evil in life can continue in the afterlife.
Holy mackerel.
I never even thought about that.
I know that you use or that paranormal investigators use certain tools in trying to prove scientifically, you know, cameras, magnetometers, I don't know what all you use.
I know you record temperatures and that sort of thing.
Well, of course, the tools we use vary a lot depending upon the subject matter.
But generally speaking, when you are researching the unknown, any tool that gives you more information about the environment is valuable because again, you don't know exactly what you're researching.
And so some of the basic tools that we use are, as you mentioned, electromagnetic field meters, electrostatic field meters, devices which will pick up excessive infrared.
We do infrared and ultraviolet photography.
We do 3D videography and still photography.
We use Geiger counters and survey meters, remote temperature gauges.
We also are fairly experimental.
We have some electrostatic generators that we incorporate into some of our ghost research as well.
Well, generally, we look at fields which are maybe 1 to 10 milligauss, and that's your TV produces maybe around 5 to 7 milligauss, something like that.
And we look at fluctuations in that range.
Now, on the other hand, we have been to some locations which are so active that we've gotten huge fluctuations up to around 40 or 50 milligauss, and we have not been able to find any conventional explanation for what could cause a field of that size.
I mean, the first thing we do is we try to rule out appliances or wiring or anything which could cause an artificial field.
And after we've done that, we're stuck with what we have, these unexplainable, fluctuating masses which sometimes will enter a room through one wall and move around for a while and then exit through another wall.
And now, I've seen other strange things that I couldn't explain.
I've seen objects which have been manipulated and even captured them on videotape being manipulated without any physical explanation and things of that nature.
The best piece of footage that we have with regard to that is we have a clip taken in a haunted house which has one of our field meters, a very sensitive meter, sitting on a chair.
And the cameraman, Brian Irish, he's the vice president of our team, he was videotaping in the room and all of a sudden the meter gets this huge reading.
It has an audio tone, so it just starts squealing, and he turns the camera on the meter, and right after it gets this enormous burst of energy, you can see clearly on the videotape that the meter is physically knocked forward and then knocked up on its side.
Now that piece of footage is very important for at least two reasons.
Number one, out of all the objects which could have been manipulated, it was a meter which showed us what kind of energy, at least in part, was affecting it at the time.
And secondly, the fact that it fell forward and then up on its side.
Now we have taken that meter and tried and tried and tried to use one line of force from any angle at any degree of strength and make that meter fall forward and then up on the side.
And considering that as two perpendicular lines of force, we have never once succeeded in creating that effect.
And we do segments here and there for TV, and especially around Halloween.
There's always an interest in paranormal research.
And so some of our footage, just like the Brown Mountain footage, we were the first team to capture footage of the Brown Mountain lights, to our knowledge, in history.
And we have a work ethic.
We're very determined when we get on the scene that if something is happening, by golly, we want to document it.
Sure.
And so we've been very successful in obtaining video footage of a lot of this anomalous phenomenon.
And indeed, there's a good portion of it which is sitting in archives either because we've never taken the time or put forth the effort to try to give it to the world or because we can't because some of the material we have is sensitive because it features, say, an individual who doesn't want his or her face to be exposed.
So if a ghost is a non-physical entity, one wonders, well, how does it communicate with the physical world?
We theorized they might do this by taking electrostatic charges and using them to manipulate the world by creating a physical representation of themselves, similar to the example with a magnet.
I don't know that I've heard too many people get active in the area of some sort of anomalous occurrence, you know, where the magnetometers begin jumping, where you might see an electrostatic charge of some type or even see some sort of apparition.
To let go an electrostatic charge at a moment like that would seem to me to be a dicey proposition.
Did you all think about it before you decided to try that?
Well, we certainly considered that we didn't know exactly what would happen.
But that's the very nature of experimentation and exploration.
And again, to sort of clarify why we originally started focusing so on that area is because that a lot of the ghostly activity which is described, especially when someone has an encounter with a ghost, with an apparition, is along the lines of hair standing on end,
cold chills, objects being moved without physical means, three-dimensional light forms, and just about all these things can be created artificially using electrostatic charges.
And so it occurred to us, well, if indeed a ghost is taking electrostatic charges and using them to manipulate the physical world, maybe we could enhance ghostly activity if we feed an excessive amount of these charges into an area which is active.
And so we've had, well, we've used a number of techniques.
We have one device which pours over 400,000 volts of electricity into the air.
And we can charge it with either protons or electrons or both.
So we have a good deal of control over that.
And we have found that in, I'd say, 50% of cases, when we introduce these charges, it does indeed enhance the activity experience.
And it is certainly tricky because you have to make sure when you're doing this that you're not contaminating your own Readings, and so we have to be careful about knowing what to rule out and what the effects are from using this type of equipment.
A good example would be well, when we were doing an investigation in the house a couple years ago, and we had sat around for two or three hours and hadn't experienced anything until for about an hour we introduced hundreds of thousands of, I think it was protons we were using that night into one of the rooms.
And again, after about an hour of this, the first thing we began to notice were sounds taking place around the property.
The first one was a drum beat that we started hearing in the background.
And the owners had talked about this property being haunted by Native Americans, and there was a drum beat.
Well, after the electrostatic charges, the drum beat started up.
And then after that, someone witnessed an object on a table move.
And we did not capture that on video, unfortunately, but we know that that was not the product of the charges we were introducing because of the nature of the object and how it moved.
And then later on in the night, another, actually two other people, one was a researcher and one was someone who lived at the location, actually saw a portion of an apparition around the area.
And we were able to get some still photographs that were quite peculiar.
But that's just an example of how it would enhance activity in some cases.
And, of course, the theory that I gave you about this idea that ghosts manipulate charges, that's just one explanation.
It could also be that we're dealing with a situation where the environment, and again, the amount of information the environment might record, is imbalanced, so to speak, because of the extra energy we're introducing.
And if we are already in an area where there's maybe a bit of a time slip, you might say, or where there is more of an inclination for that type of activity to occur, that we might tip the balance just enough, atmospherically speaking, in order to create the effect.
I think of defining a ghost as some aspect of the physical form or mental presence that appears to exist after the destruction of the physical form or the mental presence.
And one of the reasons I say that is because, you know, you just use the term soul.
However, sometimes ghosts of inanimate objects are seen.
You know, a ghost ship, for example, like the flying Dutchman around the Cape of Good Hope or ghost stagecoaches on old country roads and things like that.
So that would suggest that, you know, ghosts are not something that we can restrict to being solely the product of life.
It sounds to me as though you really suspect this time slip theory very heavily.
In other words, one might imagine seeing a stagecoach, for example, out in, say, the area where I live out here in the West, and you think you're seeing a ghostly apparition, but what you're really simply seeing is some sort of weird twist in the nature of time.
But is it possible also that there is no afterlife?
That the only thing that we're observing is some sort of weird slip of time, some sort of look into the future or the past, or even at times other areas of the present, and that there is no afterlife whatsoever, just the big blackness.
Well, the problem with that idea is all these cases where people claim to interact with a conscious entity.
And, you know, the interactivity takes it to a whole new level.
It's one thing when you catch a glimpse of something tragic that may have happened in the past, but it's another thing when an apparition appears to you and communicates with you.
And, of course, that I don't know of any other way to explain that other than being a purely subjective experience or being some sort of evidence for an afterlife.
Well, I was in the attic of a haunted house, very fitting place, and with another researcher, we'd been up there for about five minutes, I guess, and hadn't seen anything.
And I was actually heading back down the steps out of the attic to go to another location.
And all of a sudden, the other researcher, a fellow named Rob Carmack, said, Josh, look.
And I looked up, and there was about maybe four feet between Rob and myself.
And right between us, so close we could actually reach out and touch it, there was a blue-gray mist that was swirling in the air.
And it was Contained, so to speak, within a patch of maybe two and a half feet.
And for a moment, we just stood there in awe.
I mean, it was, you know, you think that immediately when something like that would happen, that we would jump and grab our meters.
But I mean, for a moment, we were just trying to process what we were looking at.
And then finally, it occurred to me, well, I need to take a picture, you know, so I scrambled around with my digital camera and actually was able to photograph this misty form about two or three seconds before it just disappeared.
And I tell you one of the strangest things about that photograph, and I was disappointed that I wasn't able to take a picture when it was in its fullest form.
Again, I got it just two or three seconds before it disappeared.
But the strangest thing about the picture is that aside from being able to still faintly see the mist, two or three orbs developed in the picture.
So, you know, again, all we saw was the mist, but the digital camera interpreted at least some aspect of this mist as orbs.
Well, first off, I think I should say that orb-like images can be created by dust and the moisture and specks on the lens and things like that.
So you have to have a careful eye to rule those things out first.
Once you have done that, these other orbs, as we call them, which are left over, and they're most compelling when caught on video, and we can watch the way they move and how they can illuminate at certain points and do all these amazing things, we have found that these orbs, the legitimate paranormal orbs, are found in high concentrations at areas where ghostly activity is supposed to take place, as opposed to an area where it doesn't.
So we know there is clearly some connection there.
There's some association.
However, we don't have any reason at this point to jump the breach to say these are spirits or these are souls.
All I can tell you is that they have some relevance to whatever is taking place at these areas creating this ghostly activity.
And if we wanted to speculate, you could say, well, it's possible that if indeed a ghost is able to manipulate the way it appears or the form in which it travels, it only makes sense that it would take on the form which was most balanced and offered the least resistance to exterior forces.
It's just like a soap bubble.
You know, you blow a soap bubble, it wobbles around a bit, and then it becomes a sphere.
And so if the energy or the form, or in other words, the body of the spirit responds to energy stresses, so to speak, in the same way that a soap bubble might respond to surface tension, it's possible that it's easier for a spirit to travel or manifest itself in an orbicular form.
I have a number of guests who frequently come on and supply me with totally mind-blowing electronic voice phenomena.
And, you know, these are blank tapes, and they frequently go to graveyards, graveyards being a rich source of this sort of thing, and by the way, of taking pictures of orbs as well.
And, you know, I am puzzled and somewhat worried when I pass away.
I don't think I want to be buried.
Not if the prospect is that I hang around a graveyard, specifically my grave.
It's not an inviting prospect.
Any comments on graveyards in general and the proliferation of sightings and electronic voice phenomena and all the rest of it?
Well, for one thing, I have done a good amount of research at graveyards and cemeteries, of course, and I have found them to be rather inactive places.
Yeah, contrary to all the tells that you hear and some of the EVP and pictures that do come from them, I found that there is much less activity at a graveyard than you might find at, say, a shopping mall or something like that, where there are lots of people around bustling and having a good time.
And again, it goes back to the point you were making.
If you died, what would you want to spend your time doing?
Hanging out by yourself in a graveyard for hundreds of years?
Or, you know, being at the mall, seeing what everybody else is up to.
Listen, you know, again, circling back to the young lady, very concerned young lady who called in the first hour and others that I've talked to, who have been attacked in their sleep to the point where hand marks, bruises are on the body.
I cannot figure out how a non-physical entity, something that is a mist at best or semi-solid at best, is able to manifest itself physically in our world to the degree it can attack somebody sexually or otherwise, leaving marks.
I mean, how do they manifest physically?
This is our physical world, not theirs, and yet they can seem to move within it or affect it.
Well, that goes back to the idea regarding the electrostatics and the spirit's ability to manipulate charges.
We use electrostatics and electromagnetics on a fairly common basis.
For example, I mean, we move Around cars and junkyards using electromagnetism.
And so, if ghosts have the ability to manipulate electrostatic charges, they could focus them so much that they could create a force as hard as a brick.
As a matter of fact, we have, of course, some generators here we do experiments with, and we can spray someone down, as we call it, with an ion wind.
And it feels just like a physical touch on your back or your shoulder or wherever we spray this.
In fact, if you didn't know what was happening, you wouldn't know the difference between someone touching you on the back and the ions from this ion wind.
And so it seems that at least one possible explanation is that these spirits, or at least some spirits, are able to focus that electrostatic charge with such an extent that it can make an impact on the physical world.
And of course, if you think about something like lightning, for example, I mean, that's really nothing more than electrostatic charge.
I've had occasionally, because I have a very bad back, of having several unpleasant trips into this cylindrical, horrible little claustrophobic, strange machine.
And I began to get reports from MRI operators who really weren't all that interested in being identified, although a couple were, that they had observed all kinds of anomalous things in the MRI room that they wouldn't talk about or didn't really care to talk about, but had seen entities of all sorts.
And I read that on the air, and that brought in a rash of MRI technicians admitting they too had seen a lot of anomalous things.
So the last time I had an MRI, a few months ago now, three or four months ago, I intentionally, in the machine, closed my eyes and tried to become as sensitive as I could as these gigantic electromagnets thumped around me.
It makes quite a noise as it goes.
And I noticed a bunch of white clouds moving across my vision.
Clearly, my brain was being affected in some way by the tremendous electromagnetic force surrounding me.
And all I can say is I've got a lot of emails from people that have given me their names but wouldn't want them used for fear of losing their job.
And they've seen these entities surrounding MRI machines.
And in fact, it's ironic that you bring that up because just a couple of months ago, our group was talking with an MRI operator who described the very same thing.
Just like you're saying, this person did not want to be identified either.
But I would love to be able to spend a day experimenting in the MRI room.
But, of course, that also shows you that, by your experience, some of these ghostly encounters could also be subjective experiences because of the human brain being subjected to.
Well, I have indeed incorporated Psychics for some research just to see how effective that technique was.
And the first problem that comes to mind is when you're using a psychic, you're using one unexplained phenomenon to try to explain another unexplained phenomenon, and in the end, that doesn't make sense.
But aside from that, I think that most people who claim to have some sort of psychic ability exaggerate that ability or are outright frauds.
Most people, because most psychic activity seems to be inconsistent at best, and anyone who says they can control it at will is certainly a bit suspect.
But aside from that, those people who do have some genuine ability are really invaluable because at a haunted location, those people could be capable of giving us information that we could never glean from a meter.
And in fact, I have had psychics give me information that was even more specific about the name of an apparition and something that was researched later and could be confirmed.
And that's the kind of thing where, again, a psychic can be most valuable because, sure, a meter can tell you if a field is present and all that sort of business, but it can't tell you what is the personality of this being.
Is it a male or a female?
What is the name?
These are things that can only be gleaned at this point in time using a human perception of the situation.
I have certainly been startled on many occasions, but I would not say that I've ever been just terrified.
I've never felt threatened necessarily by the activity.
I have viewed activity which seems sort of violent and aggressive and explosive.
Earlier I was mentioning seeing objects come off of walls, and there was one in particular when I was looking right at a little decorative dove that just exploded off of a wall.
And it was amazing, the burst, the aggressive, violent burst of energy which was released.
It was something that I myself could physically feel when this thing came off the wall.
So, you know, indeed, sometimes I have seen things like that, which at very least startle me, but I've never felt like anything, any presence has been physically aggressive toward me.
You know, sometimes I felt certainly drained and exhausted.
I've had people with me who have felt a very negative sensation and said, I've got to get out of here, and then proceeded very quickly to do that because they themselves felt something so malevolent there, or people who claimed to have been attacked and that sort of thing.
But I personally have never experienced any ghostly activity that I feel like is even directed at that.
But in the case of a young lady who claims she's raped and comes up with hand marks, black and blue hand marks on her thighs and her arms, there, I don't know what else you conclude.
Well, we'll look at people, individuals in life who go and do that.
We don't consider them demons.
Obviously, there are certain opinions as to whether or not these people are being influenced on some realm.
But basically, if individuals are capable of doing such horrendous acts in life, then I think it's certainly possible they could continue, in some cases, to do them in the afterlife.
And, you know, I have such an insatiable curiosity and hunger to learn as much as possible about this experience we're having that I'm not sure specifically where I'll be led, but I know that I'm always driven by that great question, what happens to us after we die, and all the implications that question has.
And so I think that, you know, of all the things I investigate, probably the ghostly manifestations will certainly take precedence over most of the activity.
I personally feel convinced of that because that I have been in situations where I feel like that via the equipment I have had an interaction with a conscious entity.
For example, I was in a house one time where someone who was rather close to me committed suicide.
And obviously it was a peculiar position for myself to be in the ghost investigator.
And so I was invited to go into the home of this person only a couple days after the incident had taken place.
And at one point, I had a field meter set up on a table, and I was asking questions out into the air.
And after some questions, there was a distinct jump on the scale of the meter.
And after a while, I began to realize that there was some form of primitive communication going on here, that I was getting a response clearly to some questions, whereas not a response to others.
Did you try to enlarge on that once you realized you were getting a response?
Did you, I mean, after all, people have communicated by squeezing a hand once for yes and two for no or blinking their eyes if they're incapable of doing anything else.
So along those lines, did you try to actually get communication going?
I did, and I'll tell you the strangest thing about that experience is that anytime I would ask a question that would give me any information about what is on the other side, what are you experiencing, there would be no response.
That's the only reason I can think you would, if you were in fact in communication, that's the only reason I can think you would get no response indicating what's it like.
Well, it's not any different than it is for you sitting right there.
I mean, that's the unfortunate thing about approaching this from a scientific perspective.
At this point, sure, we have lots of great technology, but our technology is extremely crude compared to some of the things that we are trying to document.
And so there are lots of people who have had experiences that they have passed on to me.
And if those people were telling the truth, and if those people were accurately perceiving what they thought they were perceiving, then I can, you know, gather information from that.
But based upon what I personally have seen, the instrumentation that I've used, I can't say that I have gained any more knowledge about what happens on the other side than you or anybody else might have, really.
I think it ultimately would be a very good thing because, you know, we gauge how we apply meaning in this life to this concept of an afterlife.
You know, we prioritize our lives based upon the idea of an afterlife.
And in fact, most religions are based upon this idea of an afterlife.
And generally speaking, religions determine morals and morals determine laws.
And so we live our lives in a very pragmatic way based upon this concept that there are consequences for our actions and that life and certain things in life carry far more meaning than what we see around us.
And so I do believe that, you know, if we had that eventual proof that there was something there, it would be positive for people who are willing to accept that evidence and for people who are therefore willing to take more consideration with how they live this life.
Well really, yeah, I think it probably is a lot closer to how we view the world right now.
I mean there's sort of this attitude of, you know, if I can get away with this, then it's okay.
And, you know, that's one of the things about this idea of an afterlife.
Sure, you might be able to fool your fellow humans here, but someone or something is observing and you will pay a price or get what you deserve, whatever the case, at some point.
And so I think that either way, there would be pros and cons.
If we did prove there was life after death, then that would also carry with it some facts about how that life proceeds, and that would probably disrupt a lot of religious concepts.
At the same time, if there was proof that there is no such thing as life after death, and really, I'm not even sure how you would prove that.
I'm not sure if it would be theoretically possible to ever end that question.
Well, I do think there are consequences for actions, and this may seem pretty far out to you, but I remember reacting really strongly when the Taliban some months ago blew up the two gigantic Buddhas.
Well, really, you know, you can look at ideas of consequence in many ways, but basically it boils down to for every action, there's an opposite but equal reaction.
And you can, you know, that's how we view it scientifically.
You can also call that karma.
You know, if you're a Christian, you can say, well, you know, Jesus says you reap what you sow.
But it boils down to the same concept.
For every action, there's an opposite but equal reaction.
And I think that ultimately, somehow, that applies to all aspects of the universe, including how we behave.
I do believe in God or an intelligent source of creation, but I certainly do believe in the teachings of Christ.
But I would not say that I would call myself necessarily a Christian because really I don't believe that Christ was a Christian or that Buddha was a Buddhist Or Confucius of his particular religion.
I believe that religion is something which was developed by humans who came after those people and interpreted their teachings.
And so I feel very uncomfortable about labeling the way that I feel or labeling the teachings of these great people because, again, it really boils down to multiple or collective interpretation and not necessarily so much of what this individual actually said.
So I don't label myself religiously speaking, but again, I do believe in the teachings of Christ and I do believe in God.
I think that, you know, I am an explorer and I come into an area or an investigation with the mindset of, you know, I don't know what's happening here.
I'm not out to prove or disprove anything for my own purposes, so to speak.
Ultimately, I just want to know the truth.
I don't have a hidden agenda.
And whenever there is a mystery out there, you always run into these people who are promoting a particular explanation.
And yet they have no evidence for that explanation in many cases.
And I always wonder why people feel so adamant about promoting an explanation.
Why can't they just accept that there is no explanation?
Why do they have to always apply this false sense of meaning to things?
One of the big things that's coming up is I am actually producing and hosting the first annual paranormal weekend at the Grove Park Inn Resort and Spa here in Asheville.
And that will be next month actually.
It's January 11th through the 13th.
And it will be three days of workshops and seminars about photographing ghosts, audio recording, detecting energy fields.
And every night we're going to go out and ghost hunt in these creepy old mansions.
And unfortunately, it is almost sold out being next month.
There are only a few reservations left.
But if any of your listeners would like to attend, it's going to be an unforgettable experience and, of course, the first of many to come.
And they can go to paranormalweekend.com, and there is a link on your website to that page as well, to find out more information and to attempt to get some reservations if there are any still left.
So the Paranormal Weekend is going to be a big one.
And then in 2003, looking down the road, Simon & Schuster is publishing a ghost research book that I wrote.
It's called simply How to Hunt Ghosts.
And it's exactly what you would imagine it to be.
It's a beginner's guide to ghost hunting.
And, of course, that will be released in the fall of 2003.
Well, we are right now wanting to cut it off at 150 people because we have a very large property and we want to spread these folks out and have as small a group as possible.
You know, no more than just a handful of people.
So they'll have an intimate investigation experience every night.
And I have so many surprises in store.
I've been planning this for a long time and no thought or planning has been spared.
We're going to have an aura camera there, actually.
One of these you may be familiar with, a special type of technology which some people claim can actually photograph your aura.
We're going to have one available for the guests to experiment with.
We're going to have, well, there will be psychics available, if indeed that's of interest to guests.
We're going to be selling some ghost research equipment.
So it's really going to be just the best place to have a hands-on experience if you want to really learn how to do paranormal research yourself.
And it's going to be an educational and entertaining time, so I'm really looking forward to it.
And that's one of the biggest obstacles that we deal with is separating the subjective from the objective when it comes to experiences.
About the only way that you can reliably make sure that the voices that you are hearing are external is by documenting them on a digital or an audio, you know, analog audio recording.
If you can't record them externally, then there's really no way to prove that what you're experiencing isn't just something within your own mind.
That doesn't mean that it doesn't have any legitimacy as being a ghostly experience.
But I would say that recording it externally is the only way you could prove that.
unidentified
I wonder what your fancy, smancy equipment would be doing if it was down there.
And as a matter of fact, I was speaking with an editor who lives in New York not too long ago, and she was telling me about an author who lives in the area around Ground Zero.
And this author claims that since the incident took place, she herself has seen at least four or five apparitions of people in business suits wandering around looking very confused.
I mean, after all, if there is anything to this, and if there is anything to the fact that a spirit may well be confused and sort of in a transition period, especially when it just instantly dies unexpectedly, then surely in that area you would expect there to be a lot of inexplicable things going on.
Yes, but a battlefield, even though I understand it would be very likely a haunted place, if you're in battle, you have some expectation, I suppose, of getting killed.
But in those buildings, I believe that the majority of the people were being told, don't worry, the building is safe, and all the rest of it, and then all of a sudden, kaboom, they were dead instantly.
And so it would be even more psychically shocking, I suppose, as you ended up on the other end.
Okay, Wildcard line, you're on the air with Joshua Warren.
Well, my answer would be I think that there's an effect on the weather, all right.
I don't think it's coming From paranormal sources.
I'm afraid it's coming, depending on your belief system, either from a cyclical, repetitive change in the world's weather or perhaps with some help from the hand of man.
But you're welcome to comment, Joshua, if you think you know anything about that.
I can't say that I know anything about entities necessarily affecting the weather in the atmosphere, but I can say that we found that certain atmospheric conditions are more conducive to a ghostly experience.
Well, particularly when you have cold, dry conditions, and going back to static electricity, whenever static electricity is most active, that seems to be a prime time to have a ghostly encounter.
Well, I live in a place where we have, you know, here in the desert, where, of course, now it's cold, and it's always very dry here, and we have so much static electricity that anybody who plays with electronics is constantly killing things with it.
So that's how much we have.
So you would expect then this desert area to be quite haunted.
I kind of believe the guy that was just talking about the trade towers because I don't know what is a ghost and what is an affectation of my own mind or if it's something that I'm pressing or stress or whatever.
But my question is reference to shapeshifters.
Back in December, I had a situation where they were very real.
There was a lot of them and I could see them.
I didn't allow them into my room.
But what happened is they were outside and they were all over the place.
There was like about 20 or 30 of them.
And then I was able to see them in my room with a mirror.
Well, I was prepared to say, well, obviously you were hallucinating because of the condition you just described, but you say they were there when you came back.
unidentified
I came back after five days of being in a hospital.
Well, I think you just really have to come to a point where you say to yourself, there are certain things that you just have to take for what they are, and there's no way that you can go and try to confirm whether or not a lot of these experiences are true based upon scientific means, but that doesn't mean that they are not.
But instead of just immediately ruling out everything that you can't run and prove, it's something you should take into consideration.
Well, you know, I wouldn't necessarily say that I believe it's on the increase, but I do believe that the amount of documentation is increasing, and therefore the belief is increasing based upon that, if nothing else.
So I don't necessarily know that we're experiencing more activity aside from the fact that, you know, obviously every year that goes by, more and more people are dying, so you have more and more entities to deal with.
But aside from that aspect, I think that a lot of it has to do with the fact that we are for the first time in a position to purchase equipment at a consumer level, which allows us to see into realms which before we could never detect.
And a good example is the Night Shot technology on the Sony handy cams.
And so because of simple innovations like that, because of the advancements from computer technology, we're able to really start detecting these subtle realms and subtle aspects of our environment for the first time.
And I think that what you're seeing is sort of a collective increase in open-mindedness because people are seeing objective documentation for these things they cannot explain.
I was going to a yard sale, and it was next to a house that in the 80s, a man had killed a woman, chopped her up, and put her in a bag.
Anyway, I was talking, this yard sale was right next door to this house, and I was talking to these people and telling them how I like to, you know, dig up old whiskey bottles and things like that.
And the guy there that lives at the house now said, oh, you'd be surprised what I'm finding in my yard.
So the story goes a little bit further, and he says, I'm finding strange things in my yard.
And then he says, well, my wife's a nurse, and we found a human bone in our yard.
So anyway, he took me over to his house.
He showed me, took me to the backyard, and he showed me this pile of rocks by these bushes.
And he says, oh, you know, my wife's very sensitive about things and refuses to go anywhere near this pile of rocks.
Then he took me up to the third story of this old house.
And he said, my son, my little boy, comes downstairs, terrified in the middle of the night, refuses to tell me or my wife what's frightening him.
Then he took me to the front planter there in front of the house and he showed me a bone.
And I said, well, you know, back in the 80s, there was a lot of murders around here, and I think you should turn this in.
Well, he told me, well, I'm deathly afraid of my property value.
He was going down to nothing.
So, of course, I contacted the police department, the sheriff's department, and to no avail.
Well, there, Joshua, is a typical religious testimony.
Pretty typical.
And I've always wondered, and I don't mean to be, I don't want to bless me in any way, but I wonder if it's the human will using the name of God that drives these things away or seems to have effect on them, or if it's actually the name of God or Jesus that does the trick.
I've often wondered.
And I told my audience sometime, next time you're affected by something like this, try saying, be gone in the name of talk host Art Bell.
Well, some lady tried that, and it didn't work out real well for her at all.
Well, you know, I hear lots of people who relate similar experiences where they have said the name of God or something along those lines, and that ends the activity.
There are a lot more cases where that does not happen.
And really, I think there's another ghost researcher who makes a good point.
I saw a while back on his website.
He said, look, when somebody's trying to mug you, if you yell the name of God, it's probably not going to stop them.
So why should that make a difference to spirits?
And so I don't necessarily know how one wants to play that concept into this idea.
But basically, I think that obviously no one can really say for sure in that situation if literally God or some force like that is coming down and listening and clearing this, or if, as you said, it's more of the will of the person.
I tend to believe that it's the will of the person simply because I hear people from different religions who have accomplished this.
But there appears to be an effect on random number generators that have been set up to monitor some sort of global human reaction to large events like 911 or like other big events that have occurred, assassinations, that sort of thing.
And they notice these incredible spikes, and they can put them on graphs, that these random number of computers are suddenly non-random as these events occur, indicating there's some sort of greater global consciousness.
And how about all of these studies that when people are prayed for, they recover at two or three times the rate of those who are not prayed for?
Now, I asked my guest the other night, Dean Raden, would it be his view that if you took a whole bunch of atheists and had them concentrate as hard as they could on making someone well and had another group of religious folks who did the same thing, would the results be equal?
I had a very odd experience, and I mean no offense to your guest, but I do not believe in ghost or the paranormal.
But I would like to get his Opinion on something that happened to me Sunday night.
My grandfather's been very ill for the past week, and actually, that's where I'm heading to his funeral Thursday.
I was getting ready to plug my cell phone in to lay down and go to bed, and I have a picture that's been on my mirror for about five years now that my mother had given me of him and his father.
And for whatever reason, it was not on my mirror Sunday night.
And security there occasionally picked up on their video cameras a shadow moving about.
It'd show up in photos taken of groups that were doing schooling and such down there for the place.
And occasionally, every time I got out, well, not every, but once in a while when I got out on the second deck, out of the corner of my eye, I'd see something move.
And if I looked in that direction, I'd see a human form kind of fade out and disappear.
If I didn't look towards it, I'd just see it walk on out of the room through the corner of my eye.
And it was different.
It was really odd.
And it would follow you around once in a while.
It wouldn't do anything.
It'd just follow you, and you'd hear extra footsteps even after you stopped.
Instead of echoing, you'd hear three or four extra footsteps along after you stopped.
And I was wondering, how close does Ghosts and Paranormal fall with stay shadow?
And so that could explain why some of these things are seen in the peripheral vision but are not necessarily seen straight on, just like some stars can be easier seen or seen more easily by using the sides of the eye.
Secondly, one thing that is a theory I came across a while back and one thing that I began to notice since then is several of the people who've told me they've had shadow people experiences within the past year are people who have DVD players and watch a lot of DVDs.
And I have come across, again, several theories along the lines that the rate of flicker watching a DVD is very different than watching a regular videotape or broadcast TV and that it's possible that just like when you turn on a strobe light in a room which is able to isolate certain types of motions you might not otherwise see,
it's possible that the flicker rate of a DVD might influence the eyes or exercise the eyes or change the eyes so that they are in some state where they're able to perceive those types of images.
Well, yeah, like Art said, that is certainly an amazing story.
That could mean, just speculating a couple of things.
It could mean that your body is, for whatever reason, extra sensitive to magnetic fields, and that when these fields pass through your body, it changed your body in many ways, especially the beneficial way of healing you.
Or it could mean that you were placed in a position where, because of these fields, some entities with healing ability had access to you and they influenced your life.