Art Bell

All Episodes

Previous Next

Dec. 4, 2001 - Art Bell

02:39:06

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Joshua P. Warren - Ghost Hunting, North Carolina's Brown Mountain Lights

Participants

Main voices

01:01:36

joshua p warren

57:49

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, whatever the case may be, wherever you are in all 24 time zones, it's great to be here.
		I'm Mark Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
		I'd like to say hello to WNAX, a brand new affiliate, WNAX in Yankton, South Dakota.
		And I'd like to say hi to the GM there, David Hondstadt.
		Hi, David.
		Thank you for getting us on for the people in the Yankton area.
		And no doubt with that power, 5,000 watts on 570 on the dial, probably most of South Dakota.
		Great to have you, as the affiliates continue to grow and grow.
		All right, let us first take a look at the war news, such as it is.
		Anti-Taliban troops hunting for terrorist suspect Osama bin Laden said they clashed Tuesday with al-Qaeda fighters near hideouts in the Towering Mountains along the Pakistani border.
		Hundreds of fighters piled into trucks and headed to the White Mountains south of Jalalabad for the battle.
		Provincial Security Chief Hazarat Ali said he was assembling a force of about 3,000 more men to join in the hunt for bin Laden.
		Now, CNN is reporting tonight something pretty worrisome that the Taliban is now said to be in possession of a dirty atomic bomb.
		Now, what this apparently means is you get a high-grade fissionable material, probably spent fuel rods, uranium fuel rods, or something, you know, whatever you can get your rotten little hands on, and you pack dynamite inside and you blow all the radiation all over the place.
		Now, I guess it would depend on what grade and what type of material is used, but that would be bad, to be sure.
		President Bush went to Florida and assured people out of work that essentially he feels their pain, he used hurt, he feels their hurt, but at the same time does not support any government help for the struggling tourism industry.
		And I guess I, in general, agree with that.
		I wouldn't want to see the government help the tourist industry, but I sure do want to see the tourist industry get better.
		And I'm not sure what it's going to take.
		I suppose bin Laden's head on a stick will be a good start.
		People are afraid to fly.
		They're afraid to go out.
		They're afraid to leave their home.
		They're afraid to do almost everything.
		And people are expecting, and for one reason, because the government continues to issue alerts, they are expecting something else to happen.
		And I'm not necessarily criticizing the government's issuance of these alerts.
		I've thought a lot about that.
		And even as they give them non-specific but credible, they always say, I guess it's better they do it than they don't, I suppose.
		You know, it's a close call, and I'm sure it is for them, too.
		Afghanistan's post-Taliban political course is being set now.
		A UN spokesman said Wednesday that Afghan negotiators were near agreement on some sort of power-sharing plan.
		There are about four factions that are going to get together and share power, and rarely does that work.
		And again, I express my worry that I wonder if the new guys are going to be any better than the old guys.
unidentified		We'll have to wait and find out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Environmental Protection Agency today ordered tons of PCBs removed from New York's upper Hudson River, setting in motion one of the largest dredging operations in our nation's history.
		General Electric Company, which dumped it said 1.3 million pounds of PCBs into the river before the substance was banned by the federal government in 77, bitterly opposes the dredging.
		Could cost the company about half a billion dollars, $500 million, so I'm sure they do oppose it.
		Rain clouds over the launch pad forced NASA to call off today's liftoff of Space Shuttle Endeavour on a flight to deliver a new crew to the International Space Station.
		It was the latest delay for an Endeavour rather in its and its seven astronauts.
		Held up, you recall, last week by Space Station Trouble.
		They couldn't dock.
		They were worried about a collision of some sort.
		This next item is going to shock.
		It's going to really shock you.
		I wonder how many of you remember if you're old enough rooting for Bobby Fisher.
		Do you remember Bobby Fisher, the grand champion of chess?
		Who played Boris Basket?
		You remember that?
		Oh, what a world-class event that was, huh?
		And Americans cheered Bobby Fisher worldwide.
		Remember?
		Well, if you're old enough, you remember.
		Listen to this.
		It's from the UK Telegraph, very respected publication in the United Kingdom.
		Prepare yourself.
		Bobby Fisher, the reclusive American chess grandmaster, has broken years of silence to support, now listen, to support the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
		The Telegraph has discovered that Mr. Fisher gave an interview to an obscure radio station in the Philippines hours after the events on September 11th.
		Mr. Fisher is already wanted for questioning by the FBI for breaking U.N. sanctions by taking part in a chess match in Serbia against Boris Bassky in 1992 his first in 20 years in an interview on September 11th with Radio Bombo in Bagua City mr. Fisher said quote this is all wonderful news it is time to finish off the US once and for
		all I was happy and could not believe what was happening all the crimes the U.S. has committed in the world this just shows what goes around comes around even to the U.S. I applaud the act the U.S. and Israel have been slaughtering the Palestinians for years now it's coming back at the U.S. Mr. Fisher 58 also attacked Israel and Jews who he claimed were responsible
		for bringing the attack on the World Trade Center.
		He gave the interview because he is a friend of the station manager there.
		Last night, Mr. McCurdo confirmed he took the call from Mr. Fisher and then later interviewed him on the air, live on the air.
		He's met Mr. Fisher on several previous occasions with Mr. Torrey.
		Mr. McCurdo said, Torrey is the station manager.
		McCurdo said, Bobby rang me up while he was watching the events in New York, live on TV.
		He felt so strongly about what he was watching, he wanted to say the American government had it coming to them.
		And there's more to the story, but that's quite enough, is it not, for you.
		Bobby Fisher, can you believe it?
		If you would like to read the entire story, we've got a link to the UK story.
		On our website, you get there, of course...
		by going to artbell.com and uh just go up toward the uh what's new and go up instead of down and when you do you'll see news and other websites and we'll have the link right there for you I just I just I couldn't believe this I couldn't believe it when I read it but I'm sorry it is true do you remember last night a young man called about
		hearing voices it's a very interesting call actually and promoted a lot of later comment and and I've got quite a bit of comment for you as a matter of fact on it so
		so I guess I really ought to just I had to go ahead and read these although what I really ought to do is first take a take a quick break if I can get it together here and then when I come back we'll we'll talk a little bit about this voices in the night in the head in the ear whatever you want to call it people think automatically you're talking to some kind of a nut but
		judging from the amount of response I had after listening to that young man last night and that's what we do here rather than automatically label anybody and not for what they're saying we listen to what they're saying and then a lot of times we get on to stories that other people ignore because they don't listen to people like that here we do more of that in a moment all right here we go after the call last night there was discussion on the air about
		this young man who heard in that little gray area between sleep or between you know consciousness and sleep you're in a particularly interesting vulnerable state and he said he heard a cacophony of voices thousands of voices and then it
		would fade down to one voice which he really could not understand and and so came all these emails here's uh one from debbie i know what that young man was talking about when he described lots of voices right before falling asleep and these voices aren't speaking words that are intelligible sometimes it's one single voice and you hear your name but you don't understand anything else that's being said i used to have that very
		badly when i was a kid probably from about age eight or so through my middle teens it's very strange and definitely very disturbing in my case certain words would be repeated in these episodes it was like a recurring nightmare in a way because it often made it difficult for me to go back to sleep usually kind of like uh the caller was saying it would dwindle down to only one voice before it stopped or this one hello there was a guy who
		called your show last night between 10 and 10 30 who said that he heard voices hundreds of them but sometimes only one voice and it called his name i began to experience this also at about age 14 in the months of june july and august three years before it started i had a friend who was shot and killed the voice always sounded like hers to me it would call my name over and over and
		over for hours with the occasional come to me thrown in as long as i was busy with school i never heard it i dreamed i i rather dreaded the summer months for i knew it would start again that's from kimberly you know and i could go on and on and on like that so not everybody who hears voices is
		schizophrenic maybe there's something else going on out there but of course anytime you hear anybody say that you automatically assume schizophrenia or something like it and maybe it just isn't so
		and maybe because people do make those assumptions about somebody who would make a statement like that people don't make them now of course they'll talk to me about this sort of thing because i will listen but a lot of other people are instantly judgmental
		you know the stories just simply never get told a little later tonight we're going to be talking about all kinds of interesting things to be talking about UFOs The paranormal.
		Mostly, I suppose, the paranormal like the Brown Mountain Lights.
		Joshua P. Warren is going to be here.
		Should be very interesting.
		So for now, two open lines we go.
		First time caller line.
		You're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello, Ark.
unidentified		Nice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Nashville?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		Yeah, I got it.
		Okay.
		I'm the one that Linda Howe interviewed on Dreamland about 1998 that worked at the test site with Otto Krauss.
		I don't know if you remember.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you know what?
		I don't.
		I'm sorry, not yet.
unidentified		She played the interview on the Dreamland show with you when I worked out of Area 9 and had been in Area 51.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I remember something about Area 9.
unidentified		Yeah, and had worked with project physicist Otto Kraus.
		Something I wanted to comment about last night, I've been in the audio business as an engineer for most of my life since I left the test site, and I'm considered one of the leading experts in subliminal audio.
		I did the Nightingale Connet Subliminal Winter album with Dennis Whateley.
		Right.
		And have done a number of other things.
		But what you were trying to think of was a Trenton, New Jersey situation with 1956 with the movie Picnic when they edited Eat Coke and I mean Eat Popcorn and Drink Coca-Cola.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
unidentified		Into the thing.
		And what happened is the Senate had a hearing on that.
		And because they had a hearing and it was covered with all the press, everybody assumes that they made some kind of law.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Passed a law.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're saying they did not.
unidentified		They did not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's what Dr. Beggett said last night.
unidentified		There are no laws.
		In fact, about five years ago, I invented a piece of equipment that had subliminal audio with music systems, with music and all.
		We've used it in restaurants and warehouses and all for safety.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but I believe there are laws with regard to broadcast.
unidentified		No, what happened is about eight years or ten years ago, the FCC came out and said advertisers should not use subliminal messages on knowingly or otherwise they're in danger of losing their license.
unidentified		It was never a law, it was a threat that they come out with and said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, when the FCC speaks, broadcasters listen.
unidentified		Right.
		And one of the things that they can do now with video, it's the same thing that I can do with audio, which is they can video the image in behind the image that's there.
		You never see it, or like you never hear it with mine, until you remove the primary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		once you remove the primary there's the visual or the audio of the secondary immediately and you know uh i did a lot of research with uh I asked Dr. Biggich and I'm going to ask you, what can you tell me about the effectiveness of subliminal messages?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He talked about, you know, the anti-shoplifting stuff and how effective that was.
unidentified		Right, that's all worked fine.
		I mean, it works great.
		We have a test that we go in and to a conference room with a corporate conference room.
		We tell the head of the corporation or a couple other people what this message is going to be playing under music and what to watch for.
		And in five minutes, everybody in there will be doing this.
		And I'll give you an example.
		If you follow along, spell the word POTS like in flower pots.
		P-O-T-S.
		Now say it.
		POTS.
		Now spell it again.
		P-O-T-S.
		Now answer me this question as soon as I ask you.
		What's the first thing you do when you come to green light?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stop.
unidentified		But you didn't answer it by the way, if it's stopped.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, I'm way out of it.
unidentified		Pots and stop is the same word frontwards and backwards.
unidentified		If you turn pots around, it'll say stop.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I hesitated because I thought you were trying to trap me into saying something awful on the radio.
unidentified		No, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People do that, sir.
unidentified		But yeah, I understand.
		But if you turn either one of those words around, and that's why, like, so many of the rock groups have actually got very sophisticated with using this where they decide what they want to say backwards and know how to say it frontwards, like the Eagles did in Hotel California album.
		Joe Waltz was very into the Entonel of Day thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
unidentified		Bill Cinders was a friend of mine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There were many, many groups that did backwards.
unidentified		Right.
		Jimmy Page, different ones where it says, and still those voices are calling from far away.
		The way they worded that, if you play it backwards, it says, F you, Lord, because you don't know where it's at.
		Just as plain as day, a three-year-old kid could tell you what it says.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Beatles did a lot of it, too.
unidentified		Yeah, they started it with a white album.
		Sure.
		And they were the first ones that did it.
		Judas Priest did it really strong with the Stained Class album.
		It was just loaded with backwards.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, as long as I've got you, would you like to say anything about the time you worked at Area 51?
unidentified		Most of it I'd said to Linda.
		I grew up in Farmington, New Mexico, which, you know, we saw the UFOs a couple different times in Farmington when I was like 9 and 11 years old.
		And we saw them on the playground.
		I mean, there was a huge amount of them in formation, a triangular formation.
		And then they had the crash in Aztec, between Farmington and Aztec, and it came out in the paper there.
		And my mom had read me this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, hold your story right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you hold through the break?
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, stay right there.
		And when you come back, we'll pick your mind a little bit about Area 51.
		That interview was a long time ago.
		Farmington.
		And of course, what happened at Roswell.
		I'm Arthell from the High Desert.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast AM in the nighttime.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here he is once again, our Area 51 caller.
		Glad to have you back.
		You know, remind me.
		Okay, well, continue.
		Your mom, you said.
unidentified		Yeah, well, anyway, she read the article.
		The article is the front page of the Farmington Daily Times, and it said that there had been a crash between Farmington and Aztec at Hart Canyon, which is an area that's a friend of mine and I rode our horses out there all the time.
		Right.
		And that the plane had crashed, the UFO had crashed.
		It had a pinhole in the porthole, and there were three charred bodies inside that were about four foot high in stature.
		And so anyway, the next day it came out and said that this was a hoax.
		There wasn't nothing to it.
		And so my friend and I decided that we'd ride our horses out there come Saturday morning and see what was going on because occasionally you might see a set of Jeep tracks out in that area, but you never really saw many tracks or anything.
		So we rode out there.
		When we got out there, there were tracks everywhere.
		There was all kind of truck tracks and Jeep, car tracks, whatever it was.
		And it looked like they had a circus out there or something with the amount of tracks there were.
		So anyway, I went on to go to work for Lawrence Radiation Laboratory.
		I did not work at Area 51.
		I went to Area 51 on occasion.
		But I actually worked for the Lawrence Radiation Laboratory, University of California, and I was in the diagnostic photography department out there and was assigned to project physicist Otto Krauss, which is one of the German scientists that we had.
		And so a lot of times we'd have to stay out there and do dry runs before shots to make sure all the scope traces and all that things were up to par.
		And we would play cards.
		Otto was a great heart player.
		So we'd play hearts to pass the time.
		And we got in this night was me and Otto and Rufus Bond, this friend of mine, and two or three other people, an MJ-12 guy.
		And we were playing cards, and the thing come up about the UFOs that we saw around there, the photography department was the only one without binoculars at the moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can I ask you a quick, quick question?
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said MJ-12 people.
		Right.
		Right.
		How do you, you absolutely know for sure that MJ-12 is real, exists.
unidentified		Well, I know that's what they call them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		I know what they said at a cafeteria before Kennedy was killed.
		And, you know, I mean, we saw them out there all the time.
		They were kind of like the super people in charge, but without really saying so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you actually heard references to that.
unidentified		Well, I heard him say before he came out there, don't take him here and don't take him there.
		And for God's sake, don't take him to Are 51.
		And so he came out there in the helicopter and flew around.
		And as soon as he went back to Washington, he cut out all of our overtime and our per diem and all this, everything that he could do.
		I guess because he was teed off about it, he did, you know.
		But then it teed him off.
		And I heard another conversation where they were really teed off about it.
		And they said, you know.
		So, I mean, when Kennedy got killed, I thought they killed him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They actually said Majestic 12, or you heard somebody say that.
unidentified		MJ-12, yeah, that's what Otto said.
		This is an MJ-12 guy.
		Okay.
		And that's the way they referred to him.
		Anyway, in the conversation, it came up about the UFOs, and I was telling Otto about this deal over in Aztec when I grew up in Farmington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And him and the other guy both said to me, and at the time, it didn't really register on me until the night you played the MJ-12 stuff and all.
		And then I realized what they meant by what they said.
		But I was just a 22-year-old kid out there at the time.
		And why I was in charge of what I was in charge of at 22 years old, I look back and go, man, I can't believe that they put me in charge of something like that for that young of age.
		But they both said, you remember that?
		And I thought they were meaning because I was young, I remembered that.
		But now I don't think that's what they meant at all.
		I think they meant that I don't remember that because nobody else in Farmington remembers this paper.
		And I've tried to find it a number of times.
		I've had my mom go to libraries.
		There's like a week of the Daily Times missing.
		Nobody, friends of mine that I know would have kept something like that, they don't remember it.
		his friend of mine don't remember right now if they're on the horse with me you know and uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		did you ever uh...
		see anything at uh...
		area fifty one or any other area that That's what I'm hearing.
unidentified		But from the top of Area 12, which is a Mesa, there are areas up there that you can take binoculars and look over into Area 51.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we used to go up there to pass the time and watch the UFOs maneuver over in Area 51 when they were, you know, dizzy incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Disc-shaped UFOs, that kind of thing?
unidentified		Yeah, right.
unidentified		Yeah, I mean, you could see them over in the Yucca Flats.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes the Red Badge people would see them over there in the Yucca Flat area because, you know, the Red Badge people were non-classified people.
		Well, we see a lot of them right here in Perump.
		Late in the evening, and at night, you could see them because they always had this kind of whitish glow to them.
		Yeah, not an intentional light, but a glow.
		You're absolutely right.
		Yeah, right, right.
		We see a lot of that.
		All right, well, listen, I've got a scoop, but I really, really thank you for calling in tonight.
		Yeah, Linda knows how to contact me if you ever want to contact me or talk to me, Fuzz.
unidentified		She's got my number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll follow up.
		Thanks.
		But some suggestions, somebody you ought to have on your show sometime.
unidentified		You know you've had Hal Lindsay on, but a guy named Hilton Sutton is probably the foremost prophecy teacher in the United States.
unidentified		Well, I went to a seminar that he had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That I'm always interested in.
		Sir, I've got a scoot.
		I appreciate the call, and I'll get hold of you through Linda.
		Thank you very much.
		Yeah, the unidentified flying objects, whatever they are out here, whether they're Area 51 or whatever.
		A glow.
		There's not intentional lights the way you would imagine seeing lights on an aircraft.
		It's more of a glow that we think is the production of some sort of drive system.
		Glow is the right word.
		Wildguard Line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Oh, hello, Art.
		How are you doing tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm calling from Louisa, Kentucky.
unidentified		I'm listening to you on WTAM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Okay, how you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		Okay.
		Listen, Art, you had somebody on your show a few years ago that I've been in personal contact with.
		You haven't had him on in a while.
		You meet member Jeff Nyquist?
		Oh, yes.
		I mean, he's been talking.
		He'd like to come back on your show sometime.
		And with all that's going on, he'd be a pretty good person with a lot of insight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would imagine so.
		Actually, I think I did have him on again.
		It hasn't been that long.
unidentified		Okay.
		Two quick things.
		One's a prediction and one's a statement.
		I'm going to keep in watching news here the last several days.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		There's been a lot of unusual statements coming from North Korea, and especially if Ed AIM's coming back on Monday on your show.
		There's been a lot of maneuvering.
		There's been a lot of tension rising.
		The commander of Marine Forces in Korea was at a conference in Texas last April.
		And George Bush's father was there, you know, Papa Bush.
		And he basically said he expected fully a war on the Korean peninsula within eight to 18 months.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this would not surprise me.
		And it wouldn't surprise me to see North Korea make a move while we're involved so heavily in Afghanistan and while the Middle East is right on the brink.
		It would make all the sense in the world, of course.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, and he made a statement in April, and December was the eight-month minimum, so here we are, and the Japanese cut off these laundering money operations that were laundering billions to the North Koreans, kind of like what Bush did today with Hamas.
		And Kim Neil's son has just been going nuts ever since we sent these additional fighter aircraft over.
		But the reason we sent them over is because the Kitty Hawk is right off Pakistan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're exactly right, sir.
		And let me follow up with something somebody sent me earlier, a fact somebody sent me.
		Aren't looking at the language of Israel's declaration of the PLO as a terror-sponsoring entity, it looks as if Israel is going to topple the whole regime.
		Today, in the U.S., we froze Hamas Foundation money, which makes the U.S. and Israel look like blood brothers in the eyes of the Muslim world and will give the terrorist organization Hamas reason to launch attacks in the U.S. The entire Middle East is well on its way to a regional war,
		and this is not even taking into consideration our own war on terror with fugitive targets including Iraq, possibly Syria, and Iran.
		The war dice are rolling ominously, and the atomic clock is about five till the top of the hour.
		And I could not agree with that more.
		The war dice indeed are rolling ominously, and there is a lot going on.
		Could something suddenly pop in Korea, you bet.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		How are you, Madar?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, I can barely hear you, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on a cell phone, apparently.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
unidentified		All righty.
		Sorry about that.
		I'll speak up.
		Yeah, I'm from Corpus Christi, Texas.
		Currently, just crossed into Alabama from Tennessee.
		I'm driving a truck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Got a little story I want to tell you about myself and about eight, nine friends of mine.
		We were in South Texas where we were growing up, a little town called Alice.
		It was about 78, 79, somewhere in there.
		And we were all out in the field one night doing what young men would do.
		And one of our group noticed three different points of light in the sky.
		One was coming from the east, one from the west, and one from the south.
		And they were all moving toward one particular point pretty much directly above us.
		And they looked to be about the size of stars.
		They didn't look to be like planes.
		You know as well as I, most people with a naked eye can tell a plane via the red and green lights on either side of the plane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Most can, if you discount Venus, yes.
unidentified		But they all ended up converging at that one point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And?
unidentified		Forming one point of light.
unidentified		They sat there for about ten minutes, and then they each went back their respective directions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remaining about the size and brightness of a star.
		Correct.
		What do you think you saw?
unidentified		You know, now, like I said, this was the late 70s.
		And even today, none of us could think of any type of technology man had available to them that would allow that to occur.
		I mean, yes, we did have spacecraft.
		These shuttles were just beginning to fly if they were at that time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was it your impression that what you saw was occurring outside the atmosphere?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Yes, absolutely.
		It was definitely, from what I could determine, ascertain, it was definitely outside the atmosphere.
		It was definitely much higher than, like I said, an aircraft would be traveling, which would only be the atmosphere.
		And, like I said, they were such fine points of light.
		They looked like stars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir, I think I've got it.
		I have no idea what you saw.
		Some sort of galactic meeting, perhaps.
unidentified		Gosh, who knows?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So much of that sort of thing going on.
		There obviously is something to all of this.
		And he sounded quite credible.
		I wouldn't have the slightest idea, though, that what he saw happen in space.
		All I can imagine, and the first thing that pops to my mind is some sort of galactic meeting.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Arbel.
unidentified		This is Diane in Missoula, Montana, listening on 1290 KTVO.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there, Diane.
unidentified		Hi.
		I just had a, well, I had a dream on Saturday night that I was being attacked by the devil, and I was awakened abruptly by my phone ringing, and later that day I noticed that my bicep, my left, my right bicep was sore.
		And now I've developed bruises in the shape of handprints on my right bicep, my left thigh, and I have a large thumbprint bruise on my left forearm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my gosh.
		And this all happened.
		There was no injury the previous day that could possibly account for that?
unidentified		No, I'm a caregiver, and I don't really do anything very strenuous, and I haven't been skating or bicycling lately.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you were attacked in your sleep?
unidentified		I believe I was attacked in my sleep.
unidentified		And I was just wondering if anyone else has had that experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, brother, here we go.
		I have the feeling that a lot of people have now.
		Well, hold on.
		Is there any possibility that you can send, certainly take any photographs that you're able to and send whatever you can decently?
		Well, these are.
		We don't need nude pictures, you know.
unidentified		No, no, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, is there anything you can show us in photographs?
unidentified		I might can borrow a Polaroid and try that.
unidentified		I just want to let you know I've been listening since 94.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, thank you.
		This is something, you know, you should document.
		You really should document.
		If you have bruises in the shape of hands, I would really like to see them.
unidentified		Well, this is the second time that something like this has happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're not the first one to tell me about something like this either.
unidentified		Well, it's good to know I'm not alone, but it's awful creepy.
		It's completely, completely creepy.
		It is completely creepy.
		When I tell people about it, they just kind of poo-poo me and shake their heads.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I don't.
		I don't.
		So, really, I'm serious.
		I don't know if you can find a Polaroid these days, but don't you have a friend like with a digital camera or something?
unidentified		Oh, I would have to do some thinking.
		Maybe.
		I'll do the best I can, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a computer?
unidentified		I have an old Apple that I do word processing on.
unidentified		I'm also an editor here in town.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then you'd probably be in position to be able to get a photographic.
unidentified		I might be able to go down to the local cyber shack and maybe get some pictures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And send them to artbell at mindspring.com.
unidentified		Yes, I've got your website.
unidentified		I get to it occasionally and get to see what's up there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you send me some good photos, you may end up on it.
unidentified		Thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, and take care.
		Okay, listen.
		This is by far not the first report I've had of this attack business, leaving marks and scars in your sleep.
		My, my, my.
		The veil does seem to be getting thinner, doesn't it?
		More and more of something or another seems to be coming through.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		I thought.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I just want to let you know, first and foremost, I hold you in very high regard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I've had this postulate that I've always wanted to put forth to you.
		Okay.
		It was that there was some huge calamity, like a nuclear explosion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Some sort of a comet hitting the Earth or something like that where 100,000 people died all at the same time.
		Yes.
		Would anybody know the difference?
		Yes.
		Would anybody notice?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		They would.
		They noticed when 3,000 or 4,000 died in New York, they noticed that real well.
unidentified		That's not what I mean.
		I mean that the people that actually perish thousands at a time, would they notice any type of transference?
		Would they notice that something happened?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, oh, I'm sorry.
		An entirely different question.
		Well, that depends on your view of the afterlife, I suppose.
		Would they know what had happened to them?
unidentified		Yeah, well, yes and no.
		My question is, like, let's say, as morbid as it is, you're there one second, and then the next you're gone among hundreds of thousands of others.
		Let's say it's a huge calamity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm with you.
unidentified		Sure.
		Would your consciousness notice any difference?
		Would there be any change in your surroundings, in your reality, in your environment?
		Would anything change if a million people crossed at the same time?
		If 100 people in a plane crashed at the same time and all crossed at the exact same moment, would there be any type of consciousness transferral where you wouldn't even notice anything happened?
		Would you just continue on in some vein of the universe that allowed for nothing to really have happened?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I go back to my original statement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It kind of depends on the nature of the afterlife, doesn't it?
unidentified		It does, and it's so diverse, it's hard to really speculate.
unidentified		What are the chances, or let's say, however.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, in a way, sir, that's what we're going to be talking about with my guests tonight.
		You know, we're going to be talking about apparitions and ghosts and so forth and so on.
		And so we'll talk about exactly that.
		Tonight's program is going to be of a great deal of interest to you.
unidentified		Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		What about having John Edward on the program?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The crossing over type John Edward?
unidentified		You know the man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
		I left a message on John Edward's answering machine.
		He has one.
		Yeah, he does.
		And I have a feeling that it got lost in the millions of messages, and he had no idea who I am.
		One of these days, though, I'm sure we'll have John Edward on.
unidentified		And David Blaine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll see what I can do.
unidentified		You're the man, and I love you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have a good night, sir.
		Yeah, me too.
		I can feel it, can't you?
		all over the world, actually.
unidentified		I see earthquakes and lightning.
unidentified		I see bad times today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does not feel good.
unidentified		Don't go around tonight, but if I take your life, there's a bad move on the right.
		I hear hurricanes are blowing.
		I know the end is coming soon.
		I hear rivers are blowing.
		I love you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, Joshua P. Warren now comes Joshua T. Warren.
		He is a paranormal investigator.
		He has investigated something called the Brown Mountain Lights.
		We're going to find out all about those here in a moment.
		He's a remarkable man, and he is located.
		As a matter of fact, let's ask him where he is located.
		Mr. Warren, where are you?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		I'm in Asheville, North Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, and Asheville itself is a pretty haunted place, is it not?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Indeed it is.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		It's a perfect place for a ghost hunter to live.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, a ghost hunter, is that what you would call yourself?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Actually, a paranormal investigator, but I specialize in ghost research, but I'm open-minded about taking a look at anything which defies the understanding of conventional science.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, help me out.
		I've heard people mention it, but it's on the other coast from where I am, so I don't know a lot about the Brown Mountain Lights.
		What are they?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Brown Mountain Lights are unexplained illuminations that have appeared on and around a ridge in the Pisgah National Forest in Burke County, North Carolina, for perhaps as long as 800 years.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		And they've been investigated at least three times by the United States government, twice by the U.S. Geological Survey, once by the Weather Service.
unidentified		Really?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		The Smithsonian has investigated them.
		They've also been very popular for creative minds.
		A hid bluegrass song called The Legend of the Brown Mountain Light surfaced in the 60s.
		And just recently, I believe in 99, they were featured on an episode of The X-Files.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		How do these lights manifest?
		In other words, how do witnesses describe what they see?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are many tales about the lights appearing in different fashions and different forms.
		But I'll tell you basically how they appear.
		They are balls of light, not necessarily spheres, but orbicular lights.
		They've been reported in virtually all colors.
		And sometimes one or two lights will appear on this ridge and sit there and flare brightly and then die back down and then disappear.
		Other times they do even stranger things.
		For example, sometimes two or three lights will sort of congregate and then one light will divide into several smaller lights.
		These smaller lights will sort of orbit around each other or so it appears and then they actually line up and move in a line from right to left usually across this ridge until they disappear over the top.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you aware that lights of the sort you're talking about have been associated with crop circles?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I've heard lots of tales about unexplained lights appearing at those areas, but I've never heard the specific descriptions about the movement of the light.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		So those types of lights lining up, for example, are described with crop circles?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		Yes, yes.
		Small lights flitting about and then the instant appearance of a crop circle.
		Now, I'm not sure if it's the same.
		we're talking about the same thing here but this has been going on for so long uh...
		do you split Do you think it's a natural occurrence, some sort of disturbance from the earth or atmospheric disturbance or something a bit more paranormal?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, I personally believe at this point that we're looking at a manifestation of the earth, a natural manifestation, albeit a certainly bizarre one.
		And I say that simply because at this point, based upon 10-plus years of research, I've never found any evidence to make me necessarily believe there's any reason to jump to a more supernatural conclusion, so to speak.
		But I've addressed theories regarding ball lightning and, of course, marsh gas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's some new information about plasma balls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if you've been keeping up on that or not.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have.
		And in fact, if I were to go out on a limb and say that I had a feeling for what the lights might be, I would probably shoot in that direction.
		I would say some sort of an electrical plasma.
		But of course, again, one of the things that's so fascinating about the lights is no one can say for sure at this point, there's just not enough evidence to conclusively lead us in a particular direction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, scientists have now found that these plasma balls are able to sustain themselves and even grow in energy.
		And nobody, no, in other words, we don't even begin to understand how they form and certainly how they grow and how they move.
		And I guess it must be from the Earth.
		So that would be my best guess, too.
		Something weird from the Earth.
		And that may even track right back to some crop circles.
		I'm sure some crop circles are hoaxed and done by humans, but surely we know many are not.
		And it could be from our own Earth.
		Very interesting.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yes, absolutely.
		And one thing that I noticed shortly after beginning research on the mountain is that there are a lot of faults near the mountain.
		Oh.
		And so it is possible, even though geologists claim these faults do not currently move, it's possible that if they do move sometimes, and of course, by means of the piezoelectric effect, produce electricity, that might at least play some role in the formation of a plasma.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure might.
		Well, listen, these guys always say those faults don't move until they move.
		And they say, oh, the fault moved.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We had an earthquake.
		All right.
		Is there any connection, do you believe, between alien visitation or presence and what might be going on at Brown Mountain?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are certainly lots and lots of reports of alien-oriented activity taking place around the mountain.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		And before I give you some examples, I will also tell you that during an expedition that our team did last month, we actually witnessed and videotaped an unidentified flying object around the mountain, which was not consistent with any of the lights we are used to seeing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have it on videotape?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Two video cameras were rolling simultaneously and we captured this, whatever it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		And I can't say that it's a spaceship with aliens at it, but it was certainly an unidentified flying object.
		We were about maybe 1,000 yards from, or 1,000 feet, I should say, from the mountain at about 10 p.m. at night.
		And we were there, of course, with the intention of observing the traditional lights.
		But at one point, I was the first researcher who noticed a light that looked like a very bright white star that was somewhere low to the tree line.
		I couldn't tell if it was close to the ridge itself or not, but it was certainly in the vicinity.
		And this light was not blinking.
		It wasn't making any noise.
		And it, over the period of about one minute, rose straight up into the air until it just vanished into outer space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And most of this you caught on tape?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		We have it actually really good quality video footage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, is it now?
		Yes.
		Have you, perchance, taken any still frames from this?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have certainly examined the video footage frame by frame.
		And at this point, we can't conclusively say that we see a particular form or shape or anything that would give us more of a clue of what it is other than just a bright white ball of light.
		But I would be happy to send some stills on to you if you'd like to take a look at it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really enjoy that.
		Yes, I love putting things like this on my website.
		Sure.
		Very interesting.
unidentified		So what do you think you saw?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, we are certainly familiar with the traditional aircraft, with airplanes or satellites for that matter, and things which travel horizontally, so to speak, across the sky.
		But we have never seen anything quite like that.
		And of course, I wouldn't even begin to speculate, but I will tell you about some of the tales that I have been told regarding UFO activity in that area.
		And if perhaps our sighting fits in.
unidentified		Sure.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people believe that Brown Mountain is actually hollow, or at least it has hollow portions, and the interior of the mountain serves as some sort of an alien landing base.
		And one man who was a great proponent of this idea was a gentleman named Ralph Lell.
		Unfortunately, he died some years ago, and I don't have any direct knowledge from what he experienced.
		But according to people who knew him and writings that he published, he claimed that he learned to communicate, as he put it, with the lights, that he could ask them questions and they would move in a certain way to answer them.
		Until finally one night he followed them through the woods and they led him to a door on Brown Mountain.
		That he went into this door where he was greeted by extraterrestrials who told him that they had come here with the purpose of trying to prevent mankind from destroying himself.
		They volunteered to take Mr. Lell in their spaceship off to another planet where they told him even more about how mankind was seated onto this planet because we had destroyed another planet we were on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would they propagate such losers?
		And by the way, looking at the present world situation, they must be profoundly disappointed in our behavior.
		One would think.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		One would certainly think.
		And well, I tell you what makes Lel's story even more peculiar is that he had a little shop in the vicinity called the Outer Space Rock Shop Museum.
		and he used the funds from this shop in order to do his research.
		In the back room of his shop, he had a small, mummified body, which he claimed...
		Yes.
		A small mummified body, which he claimed was the body of an alien.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are there photographs of this or any?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		I have seen a photograph of this.
		And strangely enough, after he died, someone or some entity supposedly came in with a bulldozer and wiped out his shop and wiped clean any trace he had ever been there.
		And no one seems to know what happened to this mummy.
		But I have seen a photograph of it.
		And in fact, I am in possession of a photograph, and I'd be happy to send it on to you.
unidentified		Are you really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have it in handy computer form by any chance?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		You know, I don't have it scanned in, and as a matter of fact, my scanner is not functioning.
		I could take a JPEG of it with a Mavica and send it, even though it wouldn't be good quality.
		And, of course, I don't have rights to this picture, but this photograph...
		You know, I really don't know.
		I came across this photograph in a book that includes the Brown Mountain Lights, but I don't believe the photograph is even credited in the book.
		But nonetheless, I'll send it on to you and I can figure out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, please.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		But this photograph shows what appears to be somewhat, or a body that looks somewhat like a pygmy.
		A small, dark-skinned, shriveled body with a bit of a loin cloth over the groin.
		And it's a black-and-white photograph, not very good quality, but you can certainly distinctly see the figure.
		And I do know at least one other person who, actually maybe two people, who did see this body in person themselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And their comments were?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, they said they didn't know what it was.
		They said that they did not have any reason to believe that this was an alien, but it was certainly a small body.
		So, you know, everybody is inconclusive about that.
		You know, a lot of people thought that Mr. Lell was an unstable person, of course.
		And so they just assumed that anything attached to him didn't have a great deal of credibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've talked about him quite some bit now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You must have a better opinion.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I really haven't formed a particular opinion about him simply because that most of the information I have has come through other people.
		And I've never made the effort to try to track down relatives, say, or do something along those lines to find out information directly.
		But I think it's certainly compelling that, you know, Mr. Lell had all these stories about experiences and encounters he had, which seem in many ways consistent with what a lot of other people have described.
		And then, again, I myself can say that we have documented an unexplainable or at least unidentifiable object flying around up there.
		So, you know, it's certainly a compelling situation, if nothing else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My mom lives there in Asheville, North Carolina.
unidentified		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, she really does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so it is kind of a haunted place, eh?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
		In fact, I think that perhaps it's because of some geomagnetic influence or something like that.
		But a lot of mountains seem to harbor ghostly activity.
		And we certainly have no shortage of ghosts here in this area and in the Blue Ridge Mountains in general, really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I attribute that personally to anomalous geomagnetic effects in the area of mountains.
		And certainly there in the Blue Ridge Mountains.
		That's my best guess anyway.
		What is your general philosophy with regard to paranormal research since you've been doing it?
		I see in your bio since about age 13, right?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		That's correct, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so how do you feel?
		You know, I had a very, very interesting call in the hour prior to your coming on.
		I don't know whether you heard it or not.
		But a gentleman called and said, if 100,000 or a million people or a multitude of people were to be killed at once in some sort of catastrophic event, you know, a comet slamming into Earth or a big atomic blast or whatever, would they know what instantly would occur?
		Obviously, they'd be so instantly dead, they would have probably, if they did have continued consciousness in any form, no idea of what had just happened to them.
		I suppose you could ask a question about a single individual dying that quickly, as well as many.
		But it does go to what you think about the afterlife.
		Do you think the source of these sorts of deaths contribute to ghosts who, frankly, don't know they're dead?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I certainly do.
		I feel like that if indeed we have a consciousness which transcends this physical body, then it makes sense that under some circumstances when a death occurs, especially if it's fast or it's tragic, that there would be some level of confusion there.
		And of course, unfinished business is the classic way of viewing it.
		But it seems to me that most of the time when you encounter a haunting or some sort of ghostly activity which is persistent, the personality, so to speak, of the entity involved is a very possessive personality.
		It's attached to something of value in this physical world.
		Not necessarily money.
		It could be anything.
		But whatever this entity does not want to leave behind, wants to stick around to be with or be a part of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that's the reason?
		Or do you think they are sort of stuck to something?
		I mean, a lot of times it seems like in a haunted house, they are virtually stuck in that house.
		I mean, almost stuck where they died.
		Not remaining there necessarily by their own choosing, but stuck there.
unidentified		Right.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that is a very peculiar situation.
		It does seem that in some cases, spirits have the ability to travel wherever they choose.
		In other cases, like you've just pointed out, it seems like there is some invisible force or invisible principle, if you will, which traps them there.
		And we can't really say that we have any evidence to give us an idea about what that is.
		But it might have something to do with the fact that when you live in a particular location and you make that your home, you permeate it with your energy, so to speak.
		Maybe on an energy level, after you pass on, that area which you have sort of prepared for yourself in life is an easier area for you to reside in.
		Maybe there's something that you have literally done to this area in life by your mere presence and by saturating this area with your presence that makes this the spot you have to stay.
		I mean, again, we can only speculate, but it's funny to see how that sometimes they do seem to have much more freedom than in other cases.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or maybe it's the spot where it's easiest for you to transition.
		In other words, maybe when you die, it's necessary that you have familiar surroundings so you don't go into some sort of psychic shock.
		Yes, that's true.
		I don't know.
		I'm just guessing.
		All right.
		When we get back, I want to talk to you about two different types of ghosts.
		And to me, there are two very distinctive, different kinds of ghosts.
		type one and type two and I'm real worried about It wouldn't matter.
		I could assign either type.
		I'm worried about it, though.
		You know, the one that has continued consciousness and knows it's dead.
unidentified		When the sun comes up on a city little town, down around San Antonio, and the folks are rising for another day, around to bound their homes.
		The people of the town are strange, and the crowd are aware of the game.
		The people of the town are strange, and the crowd are aware of the game.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are on the air on the international line.
		Where are you calling from, please?
		You are the first caller from Scotland.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		I'm in Madrid.
		Girl, you gotta love your man.
		Girl, you gotta love your man.
		Thank you.
		To recharge Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To recharge on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's Joshua P. Warren.
		He started all this when he was 13.
		His articles have been published internationally.
		Here his work have been featured in mainstream periodicals as Southern Living, Delta Sky, Fate, New Woman, New York Times, Something About the Author, a winning of the University of North Carolina Thomas Wolfe Award for Fiction.
		He wrote columns and articles for the Asheville Citizen Times from 1992 through 1995.
		He's a paranormal investigator.
		And we'll get right back to him.
		By the way, you know the whole David Blaine levitation thing.
		Kurt Jensen called me on the air and said he would send me a video of himself doing what he thinks is the same trick.
		And he has done so.
		And you really should see it.
		It's on my website now.
		He says, hey, I spoke to you on the art.
		So that I would send you a video of me doing the Balducci levitation that Blaine does on the streets.
		Attached is that video.
		And again, you must remember you are searching for an explanation for a screenshot from a TV special of Blaine's in which the levitation was exaggerated and rigged for the camera only.
		You have my guarantee as a magician that the video you'll see of me doing it is what you really see in person.
		Point being, you've been worked over mentally by an inaccurate representation of the levitation thanks to Blaine and the producers of the TV special who thought it would look better to fudge the illusion a bit from reality.
		I hope you post this on your site so others can be enlightened on the matter.
		And it's a Windows Media Player video, and when you watch it, I really must admit that it does have the exact same Blaine illusion or it creates the illusion.
		He points at the rug, he pats the rug, and then he stands facing away from us at sort of a slight angle so as to hide.
		And by God, it looks like he's levitating in the air.
		It's pretty cool.
		So if you want to check that out, you are welcome to.
		Thank you very much, Kurt, for sending that along.
		That's on the website tonight, right now, in fact.
		And it's pretty impressive.
		I must say, pretty impressive.
		All right, before the break, I was about to break into the old two types of ghost things.
		And there are two types, to me, anyway.
		Type one, Joshua, seems to be a ghost that does some repeated act as though it was a last act in life.
		You know, the lady in the white walking down the road or somebody tromping across the attic in the sound of chains and steps or some act this ghost repeatedly does.
		It's kind of like you think of a tape loop over and over again, eternally, in something that must represent some awful hell if there really is a consciousness behind it.
		And then there's a second type of ghost that really worries me, and that's the one that appears to have a continued consciousness.
		In other words, is able to interact with living people in real time with regard to real ongoing events.
		Would you agree those are the two general types?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I would.
		I called them imprints and entities, actually.
		So I taught, you know, the entity being the conscious sort, and of course the imprint being more like the tape loop being played over and over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you come to any personal conclusions about why there are these two types and what they represent?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, I believe that usually when you have one of these imprints, as I call them, they are associated with an event, generally speaking, which was very intense or traumatic.
		And of course, that is not always the case, but that is many times the case.
		And it seems like that, well, you see, the interesting thing about that particular type of manifestation is it really tugs at our understanding of physics and time in general.
		It's possible that basically these events are so powerful that they imprinted themselves on an environment which we will someday learn is sensitive in the same way that an audio tape is sensitive to electromagnetic energy.
		If the environment can be imprinted upon the same way we can imprint upon an audio tape, then something which expands an enormous amount of electromagnetic energy or emotional energy, if you will, might indeed cause an imprint.
		Now, of course, that could be an imprint which could only be perceived by someone who has eyes, so to speak, which are sensitive to that, or it could be that anyone is capable of observing that at the right moment when there is a time slip, you might say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, as long as we're on this imprint subject, are you aware of the reports of living ghosts?
		In other words, I've had a number of reports and talked to a number of investigators who have investigated ghosts of living people.
		You know, like a lady lives in a house for 30 or 40 years, moves out, and then even though she is still alive, living in Toledo now or something, there is still something walking around the house or inhabiting the house that is this lady.
		Right.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's really not too uncommon.
		It's usually a case where this apparition is glimpsed, though, instead of an interactive sort of situation.
		But if someone lives in a house and really permeates that place with his or her energy, then it's possible they could create an imprint which haunts the house, so to speak, even before they're dead.
		Or it could be that someone who has a gift, you might say, has eyes which at certain times are able to see what took place at a location in the past.
		And really, you know, it's interesting.
		There's a quote by Einstein that always comes to mind when I discuss this topic.
		His quote was, the distinction between past, present, and future is only an illusion, however persistent.
		And what that would imply is that, so to speak, all time is taking place at once.
		We are simply experiencing it little by little.
		We are moving through.
		And therefore, time is a flexible thing based upon the observer and how that observer is moving through the universe.
		And so, of course, you can see the direct correlation there between this idea of ghostly activity via forms of imprints and these concepts about what is time, what is space, and what is our potential to sort of transcend these ideas we have about what is past, present, and future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the whole subject of time has been an eternal fascination of mine all my life.
		All my life.
		All right.
		I took a call also in the first hour, similar to calls that I have taken recently.
		A young lady called, and this will go to at least the second type of ghost and maybe a little further.
		But she called and said that she has been attacked by an entity in bed and attacked so severely, Joshua, that she has black and blue marks in the shape of hands on her arms and on her thighs.
		And she's going to take photographs for me and send them to me.
		But attacked that severely.
		Have you heard of that sort of thing?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have.
		As a matter of fact, just last month, I investigated a location in South Carolina where those kinds of attacks have apparently taken place.
		And the owners of the location have photographs of themselves with bruises and various types of red markings across throats and things of that nature.
		And they have described the same sort of scenario being in bed at night or in the bedroom, whatever the case, and this entity, sometimes visible, sometimes invisible, entering and having his or her way with them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sexually.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And sometimes just bruising them.
		In a case like this, what kind of class would you put an entity of that sort in?
		Is that a ghost?
		Is that some kind of evil entity?
		Or do you believe there are evil entities separate from disincarnate souls?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, simply based on what we can document and the evidence that we have, I can't make any distinction at this point between one type of spirit and another.
		For example, here in life, I mean, we have people we consider good people and bad people and every shade in between.
		And I tend to think of it being the same way in the spirit world.
		Now, of course, the difference is, you know, you or I right now could go out and do something horrible, but we choose not to.
		Maybe there are some entities which have the power and more importantly, the will to do these evil things, things that we would interpret as evil, but I don't necessarily know that we have any reason to believe that those are a separate type of individual than what was once a human.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but wouldn't that sort of ruin our concept of the afterlife?
		I mean, somehow, most of us, I think, think that these killers and criminals and really bad, bad people, when they die, unless they repent, if that's what you believe, generally go on to some sort of abysmal hell.
		They don't get to continue their crimes and their havoc over on the other side.
		But you're saying maybe they do.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Maybe.
		I mean, again, all we can really go by, scientifically speaking, is just the evidence.
		And, you know, it's, you know, your faith and your idea about what happens is one thing.
		But all I know is that we have a great deal of evidence that personalities, if you will, can live on of an evil nature and continue to do negative things to the living.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And of course, they're never going to get caught.
		That's some kind of concept to consider, that evil in life can continue in the afterlife.
		Holy mackerel.
		I never even thought about that.
		I know that you use or that paranormal investigators use certain tools in trying to prove scientifically, you know, cameras, magnetometers, I don't know what all you use.
		I know you record temperatures and that sort of thing.
		What do you use when you go on an investigation?
unidentified		Okay.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, the tools we use vary a lot depending upon the subject matter.
		But generally speaking, when you are researching the unknown, any tool that gives you more information about the environment is valuable because again, you don't know exactly what you're researching.
		And so some of the basic tools that we use are, as you mentioned, electromagnetic field meters, electrostatic field meters, devices which will pick up excessive infrared.
		We do infrared and ultraviolet photography.
		We do 3D videography and still photography.
		We use Geiger counters and survey meters, remote temperature gauges.
		We also are fairly experimental.
		We have some electrostatic generators that we incorporate into some of our ghost research as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's getting active, huh?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, producing a charge.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, I don't know where to start.
		First of all, with the instruments you use that are used to detect things, what have you detected in investigations?
		What have you found?
		What do you more frequently than not find?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, most frequently we do find very erratic, spontaneous bursts of electromagnetic energy.
		And, of course, that's commonly described in conjunction with paranormal events, especially ghostly events.
		And that's one of the first things that we do look for, any sort of an anomalous field.
		And aside from that, the typical things that we find really vary a lot, again, depending on what we're researching.
		But we are very active in researching the infrared environment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's do one at a time.
		With regard to magnetic measurements, what is the biggest deviation from the norm that you've seen?
		Do you see double, triple, 100%, more, 300%, more, 500?
		How big an increase in magnetic effect do you see at the height of one of these things?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, generally, we look at fields which are maybe 1 to 10 milligauss, and that's your TV produces maybe around 5 to 7 milligauss, something like that.
		And we look at fluctuations in that range.
		Now, on the other hand, we have been to some locations which are so active that we've gotten huge fluctuations up to around 40 or 50 milligauss, and we have not been able to find any conventional explanation for what could cause a field of that size.
		I mean, the first thing we do is we try to rule out appliances or wiring or anything which could cause an artificial field.
		And after we've done that, we're stuck with what we have, these unexplainable, fluctuating masses which sometimes will enter a room through one wall and move around for a while and then exit through another wall.
unidentified		So what the heck is that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How frequently do you observe visual phenomena associated with this sort of thing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And is there a relationship to the amount of magnetic deviation and whether or not you see a visual?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Generally, if a visual is seen, there is certainly a magnetic or electromagnetic deviation.
		Now, as far as the frequency, you know, I've been doing the paranormal research for quite a while.
		I've been to between 500 and 1,000 haunted houses.
		And all that time, I have only seen what I might call a ghost one time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One time.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		One time.
		And now, I've seen other strange things that I couldn't explain.
		I've seen objects which have been manipulated and even captured them on videotape being manipulated without any physical explanation and things of that nature.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Manipulated in what manner?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've seen objects fly off walls.
		The best piece of footage that we have with regard to that is we have a clip taken in a haunted house which has one of our field meters, a very sensitive meter, sitting on a chair.
		And the cameraman, Brian Irish, he's the vice president of our team, he was videotaping in the room and all of a sudden the meter gets this huge reading.
		It has an audio tone, so it just starts squealing, and he turns the camera on the meter, and right after it gets this enormous burst of energy, you can see clearly on the videotape that the meter is physically knocked forward and then knocked up on its side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wow, really?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Now that piece of footage is very important for at least two reasons.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Number one, out of all the objects which could have been manipulated, it was a meter which showed us what kind of energy, at least in part, was affecting it at the time.
unidentified		Sure.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		And secondly, the fact that it fell forward and then up on its side.
		Now we have taken that meter and tried and tried and tried to use one line of force from any angle at any degree of strength and make that meter fall forward and then up on the side.
		And considering that as two perpendicular lines of force, we have never once succeeded in creating that effect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not surprised.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		So yes, that is another piece of footage that we have.
		And in fact, we've never even released that one in any form.
		So that's something you might want to take a look at yourself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I might want to take a look at it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have got to get some of this stuff to me.
unidentified		Right.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		I'll certainly do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You guys have just been keeping this stuff to yourself, huh?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Pretty much, yes.
		We have an archive.
		And we do segments here and there for TV, and especially around Halloween.
		There's always an interest in paranormal research.
		And so some of our footage, just like the Brown Mountain footage, we were the first team to capture footage of the Brown Mountain lights, to our knowledge, in history.
		And we have a work ethic.
		We're very determined when we get on the scene that if something is happening, by golly, we want to document it.
		Sure.
		And so we've been very successful in obtaining video footage of a lot of this anomalous phenomenon.
		And indeed, there's a good portion of it which is sitting in archives either because we've never taken the time or put forth the effort to try to give it to the world or because we can't because some of the material we have is sensitive because it features, say, an individual who doesn't want his or her face to be exposed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I would expect that more times than not, frankly.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we encounter that very frequently.
		and if I could ever really release everything that we have to the world, you would be amazed at how much we've captured.
		But again, we have a lot to consider legally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you've got to actually get releases from people, that sort of thing.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mentioned that lately you've been using sort of an offensive, I don't want to say weapon, offensive device.
		And I wonder what sort of reaction you've had.
		I'd be very hesitant in a situation like that to let loose an electrostatic charge because who knows what might effect it could have.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I guess you were curious, huh?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		We've been researching electrostatics for quite some time, and I'll give you sort of our basis for doing that type of work.
		Take, for example, a magnet.
		A magnet has these lines of force which emanate from it.
		We can't feel them.
		We can't see them.
		We can't detect them with our naked senses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But they are there.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		But if you put a piece of paper over top of it and you sprinkle iron filings, well, suddenly you have a physical representation of this field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see the lines of force.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They just line right up for you.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		So if a ghost is a non-physical entity, one wonders, well, how does it communicate with the physical world?
		We theorized they might do this by taking electrostatic charges and using them to manipulate the world by creating a physical representation of themselves, similar to the example with a magnet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold it right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're at the top of the hour.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lines of magnetism, kind of like the Earth itself has.
		Very interesting.
		We've been hearing about these migratory problems lately, with the sun active above us, going crazy actually.
		And the people.
		The people here on Earth, they've been going kind of crazy, too.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Breaking news, folks.
		CNN is reporting another suicide bombing, or that the police in Jerusalem have reported another suicide bombing.
		We don't have details beyond that right now.
		The Israelis have just about had it.
		That whole situation is falling apart very, very rapidly.
		All right, stay right there.
		My guest is Joshua P. Warren.
		He is an expert.
		He's a paranormal investigator.
		And I really want to hear about this active stuff generating electrostatic charges in an area where something's going on.
		Dicey, I would think, at best.
		Once again, here is Joshua P. Warren.
		Joshua, welcome back.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm very interested in that.
		I don't know that I've heard too many people get active in the area of some sort of anomalous occurrence, you know, where the magnetometers begin jumping, where you might see an electrostatic charge of some type or even see some sort of apparition.
		To let go an electrostatic charge at a moment like that would seem to me to be a dicey proposition.
		Did you all think about it before you decided to try that?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, we certainly considered that we didn't know exactly what would happen.
		But that's the very nature of experimentation and exploration.
		And again, to sort of clarify why we originally started focusing so on that area is because that a lot of the ghostly activity which is described, especially when someone has an encounter with a ghost, with an apparition, is along the lines of hair standing on end,
		cold chills, objects being moved without physical means, three-dimensional light forms, and just about all these things can be created artificially using electrostatic charges.
		And so it occurred to us, well, if indeed a ghost is taking electrostatic charges and using them to manipulate the physical world, maybe we could enhance ghostly activity if we feed an excessive amount of these charges into an area which is active.
		And so we've had, well, we've used a number of techniques.
		We have one device which pours over 400,000 volts of electricity into the air.
		And we can charge it with either protons or electrons or both.
		So we have a good deal of control over that.
		And we have found that in, I'd say, 50% of cases, when we introduce these charges, it does indeed enhance the activity experience.
unidentified		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		So we think we're on to something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, as you are releasing this charge, how are you able with your instruments to measure any difference or to know something is going on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, could you give me an example?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		And it is certainly tricky because you have to make sure when you're doing this that you're not contaminating your own Readings, and so we have to be careful about knowing what to rule out and what the effects are from using this type of equipment.
		A good example would be well, when we were doing an investigation in the house a couple years ago, and we had sat around for two or three hours and hadn't experienced anything until for about an hour we introduced hundreds of thousands of, I think it was protons we were using that night into one of the rooms.
		And again, after about an hour of this, the first thing we began to notice were sounds taking place around the property.
		The first one was a drum beat that we started hearing in the background.
		And the owners had talked about this property being haunted by Native Americans, and there was a drum beat.
		Well, after the electrostatic charges, the drum beat started up.
		And then after that, someone witnessed an object on a table move.
		And we did not capture that on video, unfortunately, but we know that that was not the product of the charges we were introducing because of the nature of the object and how it moved.
		And then later on in the night, another, actually two other people, one was a researcher and one was someone who lived at the location, actually saw a portion of an apparition around the area.
		And we were able to get some still photographs that were quite peculiar.
		But that's just an example of how it would enhance activity in some cases.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Drums, you say?
		Yes.
		All right, drums.
		That's really weird.
		What does that suggest to you?
		I mean, if you can.
		Is that the rough equivalent of electronically tossing chum in the water for sharks?
		Or what?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		At least, well, we call it ghost bait, as a matter of fact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ghostbait.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And, of course, the theory that I gave you about this idea that ghosts manipulate charges, that's just one explanation.
		It could also be that we're dealing with a situation where the environment, and again, the amount of information the environment might record, is imbalanced, so to speak, because of the extra energy we're introducing.
		And if we are already in an area where there's maybe a bit of a time slip, you might say, or where there is more of an inclination for that type of activity to occur, that we might tip the balance just enough, atmospherically speaking, in order to create the effect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Slipping back a little bit, I wonder how you specifically define a ghost.
		Now, we covered two types of ghosts, but basically, are ghosts the souls of humans departed the physical life?
		Is that a fair, straight-on definition or not?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		I think that's a bit limited, actually.
		I think of defining a ghost as some aspect of the physical form or mental presence that appears to exist after the destruction of the physical form or the mental presence.
		And one of the reasons I say that is because, you know, you just use the term soul.
		However, sometimes ghosts of inanimate objects are seen.
		You know, a ghost ship, for example, like the flying Dutchman around the Cape of Good Hope or ghost stagecoaches on old country roads and things like that.
		So that would suggest that, you know, ghosts are not something that we can restrict to being solely the product of life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sounds to me as though you really suspect this time slip theory very heavily.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, one might imagine seeing a stagecoach, for example, out in, say, the area where I live out here in the West, and you think you're seeing a ghostly apparition, but what you're really simply seeing is some sort of weird twist in the nature of time.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		I think that in many cases, that is certainly a probable possibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Also probable is the following, and I wonder if you have considered it.
		I mean, paranormal investigators like yourself are constantly in search, really, of whether there is an afterlife.
		That is the big 64 gazillion dollar question, right?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But is it possible also that there is no afterlife?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That the only thing that we're observing is some sort of weird slip of time, some sort of look into the future or the past, or even at times other areas of the present, and that there is no afterlife whatsoever, just the big blackness.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, the problem with that idea is all these cases where people claim to interact with a conscious entity.
		And, you know, the interactivity takes it to a whole new level.
		It's one thing when you catch a glimpse of something tragic that may have happened in the past, but it's another thing when an apparition appears to you and communicates with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure is.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		And, of course, that I don't know of any other way to explain that other than being a purely subjective experience or being some sort of evidence for an afterlife.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you said in all the years you've investigated, you did once see an apparition or a ghost or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was it, and what were the circumstances?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was in the attic of a haunted house, very fitting place, and with another researcher, we'd been up there for about five minutes, I guess, and hadn't seen anything.
		And I was actually heading back down the steps out of the attic to go to another location.
		And all of a sudden, the other researcher, a fellow named Rob Carmack, said, Josh, look.
		And I looked up, and there was about maybe four feet between Rob and myself.
		And right between us, so close we could actually reach out and touch it, there was a blue-gray mist that was swirling in the air.
		And it was Contained, so to speak, within a patch of maybe two and a half feet.
		And for a moment, we just stood there in awe.
		I mean, it was, you know, you think that immediately when something like that would happen, that we would jump and grab our meters.
		But I mean, for a moment, we were just trying to process what we were looking at.
		And then finally, it occurred to me, well, I need to take a picture, you know, so I scrambled around with my digital camera and actually was able to photograph this misty form about two or three seconds before it just disappeared.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You got a photograph of it?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		I sure did.
		And I tell you one of the strangest things about that photograph, and I was disappointed that I wasn't able to take a picture when it was in its fullest form.
		Again, I got it just two or three seconds before it disappeared.
		But the strangest thing about the picture is that aside from being able to still faintly see the mist, two or three orbs developed in the picture.
		So, you know, again, all we saw was the mist, but the digital camera interpreted at least some aspect of this mist as orbs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had a police sergeant, a New York police sergeant, still an active police sergeant, on shortly after the 911 disaster.
		And he, of course, because of who he was, had access to the Ground Zero area.
		And he had been down taking photographs of the Ground Zero area.
		And oh my God, Joshua, I'm telling you, I've got photographs from this police sergeant.
		They were up on the website, in fact, full of thousands of orbs.
		Just orbs everywhere.
		And as a matter of fact, we've been getting so many orb photographs, we've started an orb photograph collection on my website.
		What do you think these orbs represent?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, first off, I think I should say that orb-like images can be created by dust and the moisture and specks on the lens and things like that.
		So you have to have a careful eye to rule those things out first.
		Once you have done that, these other orbs, as we call them, which are left over, and they're most compelling when caught on video, and we can watch the way they move and how they can illuminate at certain points and do all these amazing things, we have found that these orbs, the legitimate paranormal orbs, are found in high concentrations at areas where ghostly activity is supposed to take place, as opposed to an area where it doesn't.
		So we know there is clearly some connection there.
		There's some association.
		However, we don't have any reason at this point to jump the breach to say these are spirits or these are souls.
		All I can tell you is that they have some relevance to whatever is taking place at these areas creating this ghostly activity.
		And if we wanted to speculate, you could say, well, it's possible that if indeed a ghost is able to manipulate the way it appears or the form in which it travels, it only makes sense that it would take on the form which was most balanced and offered the least resistance to exterior forces.
		It's just like a soap bubble.
		You know, you blow a soap bubble, it wobbles around a bit, and then it becomes a sphere.
		And so if the energy or the form, or in other words, the body of the spirit responds to energy stresses, so to speak, in the same way that a soap bubble might respond to surface tension, it's possible that it's easier for a spirit to travel or manifest itself in an orbicular form.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you familiar with electronic voice phenomena?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yes, uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have a number of guests who frequently come on and supply me with totally mind-blowing electronic voice phenomena.
		And, you know, these are blank tapes, and they frequently go to graveyards, graveyards being a rich source of this sort of thing, and by the way, of taking pictures of orbs as well.
		And, you know, I am puzzled and somewhat worried when I pass away.
		I don't think I want to be buried.
		Not if the prospect is that I hang around a graveyard, specifically my grave.
		It's not an inviting prospect.
		Any comments on graveyards in general and the proliferation of sightings and electronic voice phenomena and all the rest of it?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, for one thing, I have done a good amount of research at graveyards and cemeteries, of course, and I have found them to be rather inactive places.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, contrary to all the tells that you hear and some of the EVP and pictures that do come from them, I found that there is much less activity at a graveyard than you might find at, say, a shopping mall or something like that, where there are lots of people around bustling and having a good time.
		And again, it goes back to the point you were making.
		If you died, what would you want to spend your time doing?
		Hanging out by yourself in a graveyard for hundreds of years?
		Or, you know, being at the mall, seeing what everybody else is up to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At least the mall.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lots of things.
		Listen, you know, again, circling back to the young lady, very concerned young lady who called in the first hour and others that I've talked to, who have been attacked in their sleep to the point where hand marks, bruises are on the body.
		I cannot figure out how a non-physical entity, something that is a mist at best or semi-solid at best, is able to manifest itself physically in our world to the degree it can attack somebody sexually or otherwise, leaving marks.
		I mean, how do they manifest physically?
		This is our physical world, not theirs, and yet they can seem to move within it or affect it.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, that goes back to the idea regarding the electrostatics and the spirit's ability to manipulate charges.
		We use electrostatics and electromagnetics on a fairly common basis.
		For example, I mean, we move Around cars and junkyards using electromagnetism.
		And so, if ghosts have the ability to manipulate electrostatic charges, they could focus them so much that they could create a force as hard as a brick.
		As a matter of fact, we have, of course, some generators here we do experiments with, and we can spray someone down, as we call it, with an ion wind.
		And it feels just like a physical touch on your back or your shoulder or wherever we spray this.
		In fact, if you didn't know what was happening, you wouldn't know the difference between someone touching you on the back and the ions from this ion wind.
		And so it seems that at least one possible explanation is that these spirits, or at least some spirits, are able to focus that electrostatic charge with such an extent that it can make an impact on the physical world.
		And of course, if you think about something like lightning, for example, I mean, that's really nothing more than electrostatic charge.
		It creates a light form.
		It makes a noise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's a real beauty.
		Joshua, hold on.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		My guest is Joshua P. Warren, a paranormal investigator.
		I'm Art Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		I can hear it coming in the air tonight.
		Holo.
		And I've been waiting for this soul for all my life.
		Holo.
		To reach Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye.
		From west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach art at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly is.
		And when something is close to you, when an entity is in the area, it's like something is in the air and you definitely can feel it.
		Have you ever felt that?
		Your hair standing on end, a sudden cold rush near you?
		A lot of people have.
		And a lot of people have felt and seen a lot more than that.
		Anyway, Joshua is an investigator into this whole sort of thing and has been all his life.
		We'll get right back to him.
		As long as we're on the subject of electromagnetics, I can't let this one go.
		Joshua, are you familiar with what an MRI is?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I've had occasionally, because I have a very bad back, of having several unpleasant trips into this cylindrical, horrible little claustrophobic, strange machine.
		And I began to get reports from MRI operators who really weren't all that interested in being identified, although a couple were, that they had observed all kinds of anomalous things in the MRI room that they wouldn't talk about or didn't really care to talk about, but had seen entities of all sorts.
		And I read that on the air, and that brought in a rash of MRI technicians admitting they too had seen a lot of anomalous things.
		So the last time I had an MRI, a few months ago now, three or four months ago, I intentionally, in the machine, closed my eyes and tried to become as sensitive as I could as these gigantic electromagnets thumped around me.
		It makes quite a noise as it goes.
		And I noticed a bunch of white clouds moving across my vision.
		Clearly, my brain was being affected in some way by the tremendous electromagnetic force surrounding me.
		And all I can say is I've got a lot of emails from people that have given me their names but wouldn't want them used for fear of losing their job.
		And they've seen these entities surrounding MRI machines.
		Does that surprise you?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		No, it doesn't.
		And in fact, it's ironic that you bring that up because just a couple of months ago, our group was talking with an MRI operator who described the very same thing.
		Just like you're saying, this person did not want to be identified either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course not.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Which is the only problem, of course.
		But I would love to be able to spend a day experimenting in the MRI room.
		But, of course, that also shows you that, by your experience, some of these ghostly encounters could also be subjective experiences because of the human brain being subjected to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could be either.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Yeah, I believe that whenever you have an extremely strong electromagnetic field, it certainly influences the sort of activity in one way or another.
		And in some cases, it can actually deter the activity, perhaps.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I speak with many psychics.
		And many psychics claim to be able to go into homes, detect the presence of some sort of entity that needs to be released or exorcised or whatever.
		And psychics claim they are really effective in helping out in these situations.
		In all the years you've been doing this, what kind of experience have you had with psychics?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have indeed incorporated Psychics for some research just to see how effective that technique was.
		And the first problem that comes to mind is when you're using a psychic, you're using one unexplained phenomenon to try to explain another unexplained phenomenon, and in the end, that doesn't make sense.
		But aside from that, I think that most people who claim to have some sort of psychic ability exaggerate that ability or are outright frauds.
		Most people, because most psychic activity seems to be inconsistent at best, and anyone who says they can control it at will is certainly a bit suspect.
		But aside from that, those people who do have some genuine ability are really invaluable because at a haunted location, those people could be capable of giving us information that we could never glean from a meter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you seen that occur?
		In other words, have you had a psychic present who has said something like, look, you want to head into such and such a room right now?
		Something as specific as that?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		And in fact, I have had psychics give me information that was even more specific about the name of an apparition and something that was researched later and could be confirmed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		And that's the kind of thing where, again, a psychic can be most valuable because, sure, a meter can tell you if a field is present and all that sort of business, but it can't tell you what is the personality of this being.
		Is it a male or a female?
		What is the name?
		These are things that can only be gleaned at this point in time using a human perception of the situation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		During any of your investigations, during any of the things that have occurred, have you ever been virtually scared stiff?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		I have certainly been startled on many occasions, but I would not say that I've ever been just terrified.
		I've never felt threatened necessarily by the activity.
		I have viewed activity which seems sort of violent and aggressive and explosive.
		Earlier I was mentioning seeing objects come off of walls, and there was one in particular when I was looking right at a little decorative dove that just exploded off of a wall.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I mean, it didn't fall.
		It exploded in this large arc and hit the floor.
		And it was amazing, the burst, the aggressive, violent burst of energy which was released.
		It was something that I myself could physically feel when this thing came off the wall.
		So, you know, indeed, sometimes I have seen things like that, which at very least startle me, but I've never felt like anything, any presence has been physically aggressive toward me.
		You know, sometimes I felt certainly drained and exhausted.
unidentified		But not clearly malevolent?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Not toward me.
		I've had people with me who have felt a very negative sensation and said, I've got to get out of here, and then proceeded very quickly to do that because they themselves felt something so malevolent there, or people who claimed to have been attacked and that sort of thing.
		But I personally have never experienced any ghostly activity that I feel like is even directed at that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe none of it is malevolent.
		Maybe it's just the normal human reaction to the unknown.
		I mean, we do fear the unknown, right?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so we might automatically assume, oh, God, that's scary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God, that's bad, right?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And I think that's also often the case when it comes to people who say something like, oh, I've had a demonic encounter.
		What someone else might call a demonic encounter, you and I might call, you know, a ghostly encounter, just like this object exploding off a wall.
		I know people who would say, well, this was something demonic you were witnessing.
		But again, I don't see where you make that distinction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I might not in that case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But in the case of a young lady who claims she's raped and comes up with hand marks, black and blue hand marks on her thighs and her arms, there, I don't know what else you conclude.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, we'll look at people, individuals in life who go and do that.
		We don't consider them demons.
		Obviously, there are certain opinions as to whether or not these people are being influenced on some realm.
		But basically, if individuals are capable of doing such horrendous acts in life, then I think it's certainly possible they could continue, in some cases, to do them in the afterlife.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bad to the bone over here and no bones over there, but still bad.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old are you now?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		I'm 25.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		25.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're well over a decade into this experience.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Will you keep going in?
		What line, what direction do you expect your investigation to take?
		You've got a lot of years yet ahead of you.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, I have such an insatiable curiosity and hunger to learn as much as possible about this experience we're having that I'm not sure specifically where I'll be led, but I know that I'm always driven by that great question, what happens to us after we die, and all the implications that question has.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Biggest question there is.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		And so I think that, you know, of all the things I investigate, probably the ghostly manifestations will certainly take precedence over most of the activity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How convinced, with the research that you've done thus far, are you that in fact consciousness survives physical death?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		I personally feel convinced of that because that I have been in situations where I feel like that via the equipment I have had an interaction with a conscious entity.
		For example, I was in a house one time where someone who was rather close to me committed suicide.
		And obviously it was a peculiar position for myself to be in the ghost investigator.
		And so I was invited to go into the home of this person only a couple days after the incident had taken place.
		And at one point, I had a field meter set up on a table, and I was asking questions out into the air.
		And after some questions, there was a distinct jump on the scale of the meter.
		And after a while, I began to realize that there was some form of primitive communication going on here, that I was getting a response clearly to some questions, whereas not a response to others.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you try to enlarge on that once you realized you were getting a response?
		Did you, I mean, after all, people have communicated by squeezing a hand once for yes and two for no or blinking their eyes if they're incapable of doing anything else.
		So along those lines, did you try to actually get communication going?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		I did, and I'll tell you the strangest thing about that experience is that anytime I would ask a question that would give me any information about what is on the other side, what are you experiencing, there would be no response.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		The only response would come from questions or issues which were involving those who were left behind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, one reason you could be getting those responses might be that to the entity, there is no difference on the other side.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the only reason I can think you would, if you were in fact in communication, that's the only reason I can think you would get no response indicating what's it like.
		Well, it's not any different than it is for you sitting right there.
		So what could you respond with?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		That's a good point.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Either that or for some reason this entity did not want me to know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever had any communication from any entity or anything that you trust that does give you an indication of the nature of the other side?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		No, I can't say that I really clearly have.
		I mean, that's the unfortunate thing about approaching this from a scientific perspective.
		At this point, sure, we have lots of great technology, but our technology is extremely crude compared to some of the things that we are trying to document.
		And so there are lots of people who have had experiences that they have passed on to me.
		And if those people were telling the truth, and if those people were accurately perceiving what they thought they were perceiving, then I can, you know, gather information from that.
		But based upon what I personally have seen, the instrumentation that I've used, I can't say that I have gained any more knowledge about what happens on the other side than you or anybody else might have, really.
		It's still a great mystery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If science could, in fact, prove that we survive death, that our consciousness survives death, do you think that would be a good thing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how do you think it would change the world?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		I think it ultimately would be a very good thing because, you know, we gauge how we apply meaning in this life to this concept of an afterlife.
		You know, we prioritize our lives based upon the idea of an afterlife.
		And in fact, most religions are based upon this idea of an afterlife.
		And generally speaking, religions determine morals and morals determine laws.
		And so we live our lives in a very pragmatic way based upon this concept that there are consequences for our actions and that life and certain things in life carry far more meaning than what we see around us.
		And so I do believe that, you know, if we had that eventual proof that there was something there, it would be positive for people who are willing to accept that evidence and for people who are therefore willing to take more consideration with how they live this life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now consider the other side.
		Suppose science finally concluded that there absolutely is no afterlife, therefore no consequences for earthly actions.
		Now how would that change the world?
		Or is that what we're living out right now?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well really, yeah, I think it probably is a lot closer to how we view the world right now.
		I mean there's sort of this attitude of, you know, if I can get away with this, then it's okay.
		And, you know, that's one of the things about this idea of an afterlife.
		Sure, you might be able to fool your fellow humans here, but someone or something is observing and you will pay a price or get what you deserve, whatever the case, at some point.
		And so I think that either way, there would be pros and cons.
		If we did prove there was life after death, then that would also carry with it some facts about how that life proceeds, and that would probably disrupt a lot of religious concepts.
		At the same time, if there was proof that there is no such thing as life after death, and really, I'm not even sure how you would prove that.
		I'm not sure if it would be theoretically possible to ever end that question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I do think there are consequences for actions, and this may seem pretty far out to you, but I remember reacting really strongly when the Taliban some months ago blew up the two gigantic Buddhas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember that?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And just look what's happened.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		Yeah, there you go.
		Well, really, you know, you can look at ideas of consequence in many ways, but basically it boils down to for every action, there's an opposite but equal reaction.
		And you can, you know, that's how we view it scientifically.
		You can also call that karma.
		You know, if you're a Christian, you can say, well, you know, Jesus says you reap what you sow.
		But it boils down to the same concept.
		For every action, there's an opposite but equal reaction.
		And I think that ultimately, somehow, that applies to all aspects of the universe, including how we behave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you a Christian?
unidentified		I don't claim to be a Christian.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		I do believe in God or an intelligent source of creation, but I certainly do believe in the teachings of Christ.
		But I would not say that I would call myself necessarily a Christian because really I don't believe that Christ was a Christian or that Buddha was a Buddhist Or Confucius of his particular religion.
		I believe that religion is something which was developed by humans who came after those people and interpreted their teachings.
		And so I feel very uncomfortable about labeling the way that I feel or labeling the teachings of these great people because, again, it really boils down to multiple or collective interpretation and not necessarily so much of what this individual actually said.
		So I don't label myself religiously speaking, but again, I do believe in the teachings of Christ and I do believe in God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You and I have very close belief systems.
		That's very interesting.
		Do you think that makes it easier?
		If you were a devout Christian, you really could not be a paranormal investigator, could you?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		I believe that's correct.
		I think that, you know, I am an explorer and I come into an area or an investigation with the mindset of, you know, I don't know what's happening here.
		I'm not out to prove or disprove anything for my own purposes, so to speak.
		Ultimately, I just want to know the truth.
		I don't have a hidden agenda.
		And whenever there is a mystery out there, you always run into these people who are promoting a particular explanation.
		And yet they have no evidence for that explanation in many cases.
		And I always wonder why people feel so adamant about promoting an explanation.
		Why can't they just accept that there is no explanation?
		Why do they have to always apply this false sense of meaning to things?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Our brain demands that.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's why.
		All right.
		Would you be willing to stick around and take some phone calls?
		Certainly.
unidentified		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly what we'll do then in the hour coming up.
		Joshua P. Warren is my guest.
		And we're talking about the other side, paranormal.
		I'm Art Bohn.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Good morning.
		He was a friend of mine.
		And he could sing a song.
		His heart and every line.
		My mom.
		At 825-5033, first-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly is.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Understand, somebody just sent me this.
		The U.S. Marines have a new saying: It's God's responsibility to forgive bin Laden.
		It's our responsibility to arrange the meeting.
unidentified		Oh, boy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll get right back to our guests.
		Once again, here is Joshua P. Warren.
		Welcome back, Joshua.
		And I said we would take phone calls.
		A lot of people want to talk to you, as you might imagine.
		And they're all lined up.
		So if you're willing, away we go.
		By the way, is there anything you have that you would like to promote?
		I mean, God knows you've got videos and pictures, which I'm dying for and I'm waiting for.
		But, you know, have you written a book?
		Do you have any publication, newsletter, anything you would like to promote on the air?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Certainly.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, aside from just the websites, which you have on your site.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got a link, right?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		One of the big things that's coming up is I am actually producing and hosting the first annual paranormal weekend at the Grove Park Inn Resort and Spa here in Asheville.
		And that will be next month actually.
		It's January 11th through the 13th.
		And it will be three days of workshops and seminars about photographing ghosts, audio recording, detecting energy fields.
		And every night we're going to go out and ghost hunt in these creepy old mansions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow, that sounds like so much fun.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		It's going to be a great time.
		And unfortunately, it is almost sold out being next month.
		There are only a few reservations left.
		But if any of your listeners would like to attend, it's going to be an unforgettable experience and, of course, the first of many to come.
		And they can go to paranormalweekend.com, and there is a link on your website to that page as well, to find out more information and to attempt to get some reservations if there are any still left.
		So the Paranormal Weekend is going to be a big one.
		And then in 2003, looking down the road, Simon & Schuster is publishing a ghost research book that I wrote.
		It's called simply How to Hunt Ghosts.
		And it's exactly what you would imagine it to be.
		It's a beginner's guide to ghost hunting.
		And, of course, that will be released in the fall of 2003.
		But aside from that...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, congratulations on that one.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you so much.
		It's certainly an honor.
		And then, of course, on the website you'll find links to all the other wild stuff I'm involved with and...
		hopefully a little bit of interest to everyone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many people might you take on this paranormal weekend?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, we are right now wanting to cut it off at 150 people because we have a very large property and we want to spread these folks out and have as small a group as possible.
		You know, no more than just a handful of people.
		So they'll have an intimate investigation experience every night.
		And I have so many surprises in store.
		I've been planning this for a long time and no thought or planning has been spared.
		We're going to have an aura camera there, actually.
		One of these you may be familiar with, a special type of technology which some people claim can actually photograph your aura.
		We're going to have one available for the guests to experiment with.
		We're going to have, well, there will be psychics available, if indeed that's of interest to guests.
		We're going to be selling some ghost research equipment.
		So it's really going to be just the best place to have a hands-on experience if you want to really learn how to do paranormal research yourself.
		And it's going to be an educational and entertaining time, so I'm really looking forward to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, I wish I had the time.
		I could come visit my mom and have a paranormal weekend at the same time.
		All right, here we go.
		First time caller line.
		You're on the air with Joshua P. Warren.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Mr. Warren, Mr. Bell, an absolute pleasure to speak to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		New York.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		New York.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As in the city?
unidentified		Long Island.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Long Island.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		I've been working the piles at the World Trade Center for about 13 weeks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
unidentified		From day one.
		And I got some information for you.
		And I've got to tell you, first off, everything I'm about to say, I believe was my own conscience talking.
		And I can't tell the difference.
		When it first happened, oh, heck, you couldn't even hear yourself think.
		But I'd say about four or five days into it, you were saying to yourself what you would be saying if you were them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Them?
unidentified		You were hearing stuff.
		I was hearing stuff.
		I know the guy I was with was hearing stuff.
		Were we listening to our subconscious?
		Were we hearing stuff?
		We don't know.
		And I don't know what it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you say them, you mean those who perished in it?
unidentified		Yeah, that was in the forefront of the thoughts.
		That's what everyone was thinking.
		That's all that we were thinking about.
		Where are they?
		Can we hear them?
		You can picture thousands of people trying to tune in to find them, exploring the voids and stuff.
		My question is, how do you determine what is your mind talking as opposed to an external spirit?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a very good question.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that is a good question.
		And that's one of the biggest obstacles that we deal with is separating the subjective from the objective when it comes to experiences.
		About the only way that you can reliably make sure that the voices that you are hearing are external is by documenting them on a digital or an audio, you know, analog audio recording.
		If you can't record them externally, then there's really no way to prove that what you're experiencing isn't just something within your own mind.
		That doesn't mean that it doesn't have any legitimacy as being a ghostly experience.
		But I would say that recording it externally is the only way you could prove that.
unidentified		I wonder what your fancy, smancy equipment would be doing if it was down there.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wow.
		There's no telling.
		And as a matter of fact, I was speaking with an editor who lives in New York not too long ago, and she was telling me about an author who lives in the area around Ground Zero.
		And this author claims that since the incident took place, she herself has seen at least four or five apparitions of people in business suits wandering around looking very confused.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, it sure wouldn't surprise me, Color.
		Thank you.
		It wouldn't surprise me a bit.
		I mean, after all, if there is anything to this, and if there is anything to the fact that a spirit may well be confused and sort of in a transition period, especially when it just instantly dies unexpectedly, then surely in that area you would expect there to be a lot of inexplicable things going on.
		Wouldn't you?
unidentified		Yes, absolutely.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		And I'm sure at some point I will probably investigate that area.
		You know, I would want to certainly wait until it was a less sensitive subject than it is right now.
		Yes.
		But, you know, just like battlefields, you know, places where thousands of people die in short periods of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but a battlefield, even though I understand it would be very likely a haunted place, if you're in battle, you have some expectation, I suppose, of getting killed.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of dying.
		Right.
		But in those buildings, I believe that the majority of the people were being told, don't worry, the building is safe, and all the rest of it, and then all of a sudden, kaboom, they were dead instantly.
		And so it would be even more psychically shocking, I suppose, as you ended up on the other end.
		Okay, Wildcard line, you're on the air with Joshua Warren.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello, dear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air.
unidentified		Where are you?
unidentified		Baltimore, Maryland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Baltimore, okay.
unidentified		I definitely believe in the paranormal and ghost, etc.
		And I understand their purpose on Earth.
		I was just curious to know, do they have any effect on the atmosphere and the weather?
		Because it's ridiculous that it's like 70 degrees in Baltimore in December.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, my answer would be I think that there's an effect on the weather, all right.
		I don't think it's coming From paranormal sources.
		I'm afraid it's coming, depending on your belief system, either from a cyclical, repetitive change in the world's weather or perhaps with some help from the hand of man.
		But you're welcome to comment, Joshua, if you think you know anything about that.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		I can't say that I know anything about entities necessarily affecting the weather in the atmosphere, but I can say that we found that certain atmospheric conditions are more conducive to a ghostly experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like what?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, particularly when you have cold, dry conditions, and going back to static electricity, whenever static electricity is most active, that seems to be a prime time to have a ghostly encounter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I live in a place where we have, you know, here in the desert, where, of course, now it's cold, and it's always very dry here, and we have so much static electricity that anybody who plays with electronics is constantly killing things with it.
		So that's how much we have.
		So you would expect then this desert area to be quite haunted.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		If it's not simply haunted, then at least the spirits which are there should have a better ability to manifest themselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To manifest, yes.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really interesting.
		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Joshua Warren.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello?
		Hello.
		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		My name is Clayton.
		I'm from South Jersey.
		I want to say hi to Joshua and also Mr. Bell.
		Hi, how you doing?
		Fine.
		I kind of believe the guy that was just talking about the trade towers because I don't know what is a ghost and what is an affectation of my own mind or if it's something that I'm pressing or stress or whatever.
		But my question is reference to shapeshifters.
		Back in December, I had a situation where they were very real.
		There was a lot of them and I could see them.
		I didn't allow them into my room.
		But what happened is they were outside and they were all over the place.
		There was like about 20 or 30 of them.
		And then I was able to see them in my room with a mirror.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you call them shapeshifters?
unidentified		Because they were human form.
		I couldn't hear their larynx.
		I couldn't hear their voice.
		But I could see them, and they kept on...
		And it would just be like a pile of clothes or something.
		And then I started to find that I did not understand what was going on, but I could talk to them.
		The audio was very low.
		It was very hard to hear them, but I found that I could communicate with them.
		And I was asking them all the same kind of questions like, are you all dead?
		You know, like, what happens?
		Where are you coming from?
		Why are you bothering me?
		And this lasted for three days.
		This wasn't.
		And then I finally passed.
		I was not drinking and I don't do drugs.
		And what happened is when I saw this, then the next day I woke up and I said, it was just something that happened.
		They were still there, but they were in all different kinds of forms because I work as an artist.
		I do abstract and I do computer art and stuff.
		And what happens, they look.
		They were talking to me.
		I could see their lips moving.
		And then I started finding that there was pictures that I had, like of something like Carlos Santana, Joni Mitchell.
		There were just pictures of people and stuff like that.
		And they were all there too.
		And then I started finding it was like they came from a place called Z-Land.
		Now, the reason I named it that was because it sounded like there were car tires with chains on them, snow tires.
		And anyway, to make it short, I ended up in a hospital from that, a medical hospital, not a nut house.
		And what had happened is that they said I should be dead because I had absolutely no electrolytes.
		I had no magnesium, potassium.
		And I was eating.
		I mean, I wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary for me.
		And I was in intervenus for like six days, but then I came back out of the hospital and they were still there.
		They were still there.
		They lasted for another three days.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was prepared to say, well, obviously you were hallucinating because of the condition you just described, but you say they were there when you came back.
unidentified		I came back after five days of being in a hospital.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And then they were still there, and the sounds were still there.
		The trees were, everything was forming.
		They were turning to huge, like, I'd look at a tree, a pine tree, and they would start pointing in the direction I had to go.
		So then I ended up going to the hospital, what I ended up doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate your call, sir.
		You know, there are a lot of people, Joshua, who would say, well, there's somebody who's just crazy.
		But I don't know.
		I can't say that.
		I've heard too much on these airwaves over the years to be able to say that.
		I just hear so many stories like that, and I just, I'm sure you do too, and I don't know what you make of them.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think you just really have to come to a point where you say to yourself, there are certain things that you just have to take for what they are, and there's no way that you can go and try to confirm whether or not a lot of these experiences are true based upon scientific means, but that doesn't mean that they are not.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		But instead of just immediately ruling out everything that you can't run and prove, it's something you should take into consideration.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that sightings of entities, encounters with paranormal experiences of varying sorts, is on the increase generally?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I wouldn't necessarily say that I believe it's on the increase, but I do believe that the amount of documentation is increasing, and therefore the belief is increasing based upon that, if nothing else.
		So I don't necessarily know that we're experiencing more activity aside from the fact that, you know, obviously every year that goes by, more and more people are dying, so you have more and more entities to deal with.
		But aside from that aspect, I think that a lot of it has to do with the fact that we are for the first time in a position to purchase equipment at a consumer level, which allows us to see into realms which before we could never detect.
		And a good example is the Night Shot technology on the Sony handy cams.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, I have one.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, fantastic stuff.
		And so because of simple innovations like that, because of the advancements from computer technology, we're able to really start detecting these subtle realms and subtle aspects of our environment for the first time.
		And I think that what you're seeing is sort of a collective increase in open-mindedness because people are seeing objective documentation for these things they cannot explain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you familiar with an organization known as NIDS?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't believe so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		National Institute for Discovery Science.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's funded by a very wealthy man out here in Las Vegas.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		I've heard of it, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they've done a lot of infrared research.
		They have a ranch that they purchased where a lot of paranormal type things were going on.
		And they witnessed with infrared equipment and night vision, they witnessed a portal opening.
		Now, I'm talking about legitimate scientists who were out doing the kind of research you do.
		And they witnessed a portal opening and a creature coming through it.
		And then the portal closing again.
		And that was just one of the paranormal things they documented at this ranch out here.
		Actually, we don't identify specifically where the ranch is.
		I'm Art Bell.
		And we'll continue with Joshua Warren in just a moment.
		From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		to lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing to have all these things in our memories Art Bell welcomes a variety of interesting guests to his program.
		Some are names you may not know.
		Others are names you know very well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is Leonard Nimoy.
unidentified		Leonard, welcome to the program.
		Thank you.
		Hi.
		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have such a short time that I feel obligated to literally pummel you with questions.
unidentified		Okay, go.
		How much chance do you think there really is that we will be contacted?
		There are something like four billion stars in our galaxy alone.
		And there are billions of other galaxies.
		Each of those stars are potential suns just like ours.
		And that means that if one out of every million of those stars has planets around it, dial 1-800-618-8255 east of the Rockies.
		1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is indeed the Proud Premier Networks.
		Hi, everybody.
		We're talking about things paranormal with somebody who investigates exactly that, Joshua P. Warren.
		I'm Art Bell, and if you'll stay right there, we'll continue with your call.
unidentified		Once again, Joshua P. Warren.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Joshua, welcome back.
		Lots of folks want to talk to you on the first-time caller line.
		You're on the air with Joshua Warren.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Yes, my name is Eric.
		I'm calling from Redding, California.
		Okay.
		And I had a story a couple of years ago.
		I was going to a yard sale, and it was next to a house that in the 80s, a man had killed a woman, chopped her up, and put her in a bag.
		Anyway, I was talking, this yard sale was right next door to this house, and I was talking to these people and telling them how I like to, you know, dig up old whiskey bottles and things like that.
		And the guy there that lives at the house now said, oh, you'd be surprised what I'm finding in my yard.
		So the story goes a little bit further, and he says, I'm finding strange things in my yard.
		And then he says, well, my wife's a nurse, and we found a human bone in our yard.
		So anyway, he took me over to his house.
		He showed me, took me to the backyard, and he showed me this pile of rocks by these bushes.
		And he says, oh, you know, my wife's very sensitive about things and refuses to go anywhere near this pile of rocks.
		Then he took me up to the third story of this old house.
		And he said, my son, my little boy, comes downstairs, terrified in the middle of the night, refuses to tell me or my wife what's frightening him.
		Then he took me to the front planter there in front of the house and he showed me a bone.
		And I said, well, you know, back in the 80s, there was a lot of murders around here, and I think you should turn this in.
		Well, he told me, well, I'm deathly afraid of my property value.
		He was going down to nothing.
		So, of course, I contacted the police department, the sheriff's department, and to no avail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean to no avail?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would think human remains would be of high interest.
unidentified		Well, I certainly would, too.
		And the best thing I got out of them, I said, well, you know, I'm going to just go back and get that bone.
		He said, and one of the sheriffs said, no, no, you know, you don't want ramifications if you, you know, you have a human bone.
		Blah, blah, blah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was my point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if you're telling him that someone has a human bone, you would think, oh, well.
unidentified		Well, absolutely, absolutely.
		And, you know, at the same time, what's very strange about this is several blocks away was the Redding dump.
		And around that same time in the middle of the 80s, they were finding human bones in the dump.
		It was in the newspaper.
		And this guy just is just deathly afraid.
		If they start digging bodies out of his yard, his property values will go next to nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's probably a good bet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how does all of this relate to the paranormal?
unidentified		Believe it or not, something followed me from that house.
		Oh.
		And your guest, you know, this was evil.
		You knew it was evil.
		It was a presence.
		It was terrifying.
		It was affecting me.
		It was affecting my family.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		may ask you for how do you know Well, it affected myself that I was having thoughts that I would never have in a million years.
unidentified		It was affecting my family.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of thoughts?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean like homicidal thoughts?
unidentified		Well, not so much that, just evil thoughts.
		Perhaps homicidal, yes.
		Wow.
		But one night, you know, I could feel this presence just right next to me.
		And I'm watching a television show where a television pastor is talking about how to get rid of these kind of things.
		Right.
		And I'm praying to Christ, and he called it pleading the blood of the Lamb.
		And, you know, it was the strangest thing.
		It was late at night, and the wind was very calm.
		And as I'm praying, the wind outside came up.
		It must have been 60, 70 miles.
		It just started howling.
		And whatever this was, I felt that something bigger, something stronger came and told it to go away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, there, Joshua, is a typical religious testimony.
		Pretty typical.
		And I've always wondered, and I don't mean to be, I don't want to bless me in any way, but I wonder if it's the human will using the name of God that drives these things away or seems to have effect on them, or if it's actually the name of God or Jesus that does the trick.
		I've often wondered.
		And I told my audience sometime, next time you're affected by something like this, try saying, be gone in the name of talk host Art Bell.
		Well, some lady tried that, and it didn't work out real well for her at all.
		You have any thoughts on that?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I hear lots of people who relate similar experiences where they have said the name of God or something along those lines, and that ends the activity.
		There are a lot more cases where that does not happen.
		And really, I think there's another ghost researcher who makes a good point.
		I saw a while back on his website.
		He said, look, when somebody's trying to mug you, if you yell the name of God, it's probably not going to stop them.
		So why should that make a difference to spirits?
		And so I don't necessarily know how one wants to play that concept into this idea.
		But basically, I think that obviously no one can really say for sure in that situation if literally God or some force like that is coming down and listening and clearing this, or if, as you said, it's more of the will of the person.
		I tend to believe that it's the will of the person simply because I hear people from different religions who have accomplished this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I tend to agree with that.
		Lately, we've been working with the Global Consciousness Project, or certainly talking about it.
		Have you followed that at all on the show, Joshua?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		No, I sure haven't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a lot to explain, then.
		But there appears to be an effect on random number generators that have been set up to monitor some sort of global human reaction to large events like 911 or like other big events that have occurred, assassinations, that sort of thing.
		And they notice these incredible spikes, and they can put them on graphs, that these random number of computers are suddenly non-random as these events occur, indicating there's some sort of greater global consciousness.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I tend to think that everything is related in some form.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Precisely, exactly.
		And how about all of these studies that when people are prayed for, they recover at two or three times the rate of those who are not prayed for?
		Now, I asked my guest the other night, Dean Raden, would it be his view that if you took a whole bunch of atheists and had them concentrate as hard as they could on making someone well and had another group of religious folks who did the same thing, would the results be equal?
		His thought was they would.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know about that because I think that people who are religious, they do have a strong belief in the unseen possibilities.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		And you can call that the work of God or whatever you wish.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the power of the mind may not demand faith, belief.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's correct.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		But it seems like that people who have faith might be able to take for granted the power, and therefore it flows easier for them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Might be easier for them, yes.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Joshua P. Warren.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm heading to Michigan on a carphone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, proceed.
unidentified		I had a very odd experience, and I mean no offense to your guest, but I do not believe in ghost or the paranormal.
		But I would like to get his Opinion on something that happened to me Sunday night.
		My grandfather's been very ill for the past week, and actually, that's where I'm heading to his funeral Thursday.
		I was getting ready to plug my cell phone in to lay down and go to bed, and I have a picture that's been on my mirror for about five years now that my mother had given me of him and his father.
		And for whatever reason, it was not on my mirror Sunday night.
		It was sitting right on my dresser, top.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any other explanation for how it could have moved?
unidentified		None.
		I asked my girlfriend who was in bed, I said, did you look at this picture tonight?
		She said, no.
		And I said, that's it.
		He's going to die tonight.
		She said, oh, don't say that.
		About 3 o'clock in the morning, my mother called and said that he had passed away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you don't believe in the paranormal or any of that sort of thing, then to what do you attribute your belief?
unidentified		I really have no idea.
unidentified		That's why I'm calling.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, I tell you, the term paranormal really means beyond normal, beyond the realm of the ordinary.
		And that certainly would qualify as a paranormal experience.
		I tend to think that that sort of thing could be described as ghostly as well.
		There's a type of ghost which is generally known as a harbinger.
		A harbinger is an entity or a spirit that brings a message of something which is impending.
		Oftentimes, it's negative.
		And of course, a death would qualify.
		And so it's possible that you were visited by some spirit or entity or presence of some kind that manipulated that picture as assigned to you.
		And obviously, considering there's no conventional explanation, it would certainly be considered paranormal.
unidentified		Okay.
		Thank you very much.
		Again, like I said, I'm 32 years old, and it's the weirdest thing that's ever happened to me.
		And my girlfriend said she would have never believed it unless she was there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, welcome to the world, sir.
		Thank you, and take care.
		Drive safely.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Joshua P. Warren.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, how you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Kansas City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I have a tale and a question.
		I used to work at a casino, and it shut down.
		We had to have a skeleton crew on for legal reasons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And security there occasionally picked up on their video cameras a shadow moving about.
		It'd show up in photos taken of groups that were doing schooling and such down there for the place.
		And occasionally, every time I got out, well, not every, but once in a while when I got out on the second deck, out of the corner of my eye, I'd see something move.
		And if I looked in that direction, I'd see a human form kind of fade out and disappear.
		If I didn't look towards it, I'd just see it walk on out of the room through the corner of my eye.
		And it was different.
		It was really odd.
		And it would follow you around once in a while.
		It wouldn't do anything.
		It'd just follow you, and you'd hear extra footsteps even after you stopped.
		Instead of echoing, you'd hear three or four extra footsteps along after you stopped.
		And I was wondering, how close does Ghosts and Paranormal fall with stay shadow?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Joshua, this also goes right down the line of something we've discussed on the show a very great deal.
		I've had thousands of emails of what people call the shadow people.
		Most people see these movements just out of the corner of their eye, a very fast, flickering kind of movement, but you know something just moved.
		And you look and there's nothing there.
		Now, recently, I've had hundreds of emails from people who have said, well, you know, I'm beginning to actually see these things straight on.
		Some people have said when they've encountered them, the entities or whatever they are, shadow people, look startled and take off.
		They flee.
		They're gone.
		Like that.
		Have you got any reports of anything like this?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have.
		I've heard a lot about the shadow people.
		And first of all, let me give you a couple comments on how the eyes work.
		I talked to an eye doctor a few years ago who told me that apparently we actually have better vision in our peripheral vision than we do straight on.
		He said there were more nerves or more receptors per nerve.
		That's what he said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		And that actually the reason for that is evolutionarily in the past you had to see if a lion or a tiger was sneaking up to eat you on the sides.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		And so even though we stay focused straightforward, we have apparently better vision on the sides if I was informed correctly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, now that's really, really interesting.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And so that could explain why some of these things are seen in the peripheral vision but are not necessarily seen straight on, just like some stars can be easier seen or seen more easily by using the sides of the eye.
		Secondly, one thing that is a theory I came across a while back and one thing that I began to notice since then is several of the people who've told me they've had shadow people experiences within the past year are people who have DVD players and watch a lot of DVDs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		And I have come across, again, several theories along the lines that the rate of flicker watching a DVD is very different than watching a regular videotape or broadcast TV and that it's possible that just like when you turn on a strobe light in a room which is able to isolate certain types of motions you might not otherwise see,
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		it's possible that the flicker rate of a DVD might influence the eyes or exercise the eyes or change the eyes so that they are in some state where they're able to perceive those types of images.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, you're dead on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would it surprise you to know I have heard this exact same theory, even down to the DVD Flicker theory from about two other people in recent months.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		These creatures, these entities, these shadow people, whatever they are, appear to operate at a higher vibratory level.
		And what you have just described would be one way.
		It's absolutely remarkable, and I think you're dead right on the money.
		And I think our technology may be resulting in our seeing more things or seeing things we have not previously known are all around us.
		Right.
		Okay.
		West to the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Joshua Warren.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, ma'am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in La Jolla, California.
		Okay.
		Well, I called about an hour ago when you mentioned about MRIs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I have an MRI experience that's pretty amazing.
		About a year and a half ago, I had a spinal cord injury and I was paralyzed from the waist down and told that I'll never walk again.
		And after about two weeks of laying in the hospital, they put me in an MRI to test me.
		And while I was in it, they kept me in it for three and a half hours for some reason.
		And while I was in it, I felt beings surrounding me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I heard a voice tell me that I'm going to be okay.
		And when they pulled me out, my spinal cord injury had healed and I could walk.
		And it was basically a miracle.
		The doctors couldn't believe it.
		And since that experience, I've had nothing but paranormal experiences constantly.
		I see spirits materialize.
		What else?
		It's just I have psychic dreams and all sorts of strange things happening.
		Was it because of the MRI?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's an incredible story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I take it you can document all this.
unidentified		Oh, yes, I can.
		Yes.
		Joshua?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, like Art said, that is certainly an amazing story.
		That could mean, just speculating a couple of things.
		It could mean that your body is, for whatever reason, extra sensitive to magnetic fields, and that when these fields pass through your body, it changed your body in many ways, especially the beneficial way of healing you.
		Or it could mean that you were placed in a position where, because of these fields, some entities with healing ability had access to you and they influenced your life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You two were extremely short on time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ma'am, would you please fire me an email with contact information for you?
unidentified		Sure.
unidentified		I work for Deepak Topra in La Jolla.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, all right.
		Fire me some emails.
		Artbell at mindspring.com with some contact information.
		Okay, good.
		Thank you very much.
		And we are, woefully, Joshua, we're out of time.
		The program is ending.
		Nothing I can do about that.
unidentified		I really, truly appreciate your being here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And obviously, we will have you back again.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Sounds wonderful.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And again, for the Paranormal Weekend that's coming up, how do people contact you?
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Well, they can go to paranormalweekend.com, which is the easiest way.
		And of course, there's a link on your website, or they can call the Grove Park Inn here in Asheville, North Carolina.
		I don't have that number on hand, but it's easy to find, the Grove Park Inn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Grove Park Inn in Asheville, North Carolina, huh?
		That's it.
		All right, my friend.
		Good night.
joshua p warren ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you have it.
		From Asheville, North.
		Haunted Asheville, North Carolina.
		Joshua P. Warren.
		I'm Art Bell from the High Deserts.

▲