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Dec. 4, 2001 - Art Bell
02:39:05
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Joshua P. Warren - Ghost Hunting, North Carolina's Brown Mountain Lights
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♪♪ From the high desert and the great American southwest,
I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever the case may be, wherever you are in all 24 time
zones, it's great to be here.
I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
I'd like to say hello to WNAX, a brand new affiliate, WNAX in Yankton, South Dakota.
And I'd like to say hi to the GM there, David Onstead.
Hi, David.
Thank you for getting us on for the people in the Yankton area.
And no doubt with that power, 5,000 watts on 570 on the dial, probably most of South Dakota.
Great to have you as the affiliates continue to grow and grow.
All right, let us first take a look at the war news such as it is.
Anti-Taliban troops hunting for Terrorist suspect Osama Bin Laden said they clashed Tuesday with Al-Qaeda fighters near hideouts in the towering mountains along the Pakistani border.
Hundreds of fighters piled into trucks and headed to the White Mountains south of Jalalabad for the battle.
Provincial Security Chief Hazarat Ali said he was assembling a force of about 3,000 more men to join in the hunt for Bin Laden.
Now, CNN is reporting tonight something pretty worrisome, that the Taliban is now said to be in possession of a dirty atomic bomb.
Now, what this apparently means is you get high-grade fissionable material.
Probably spent fuel rods, uranium fuel rods, or something, you know, whatever you can get your rotten little hands on.
And you pack dynamite inside and you blow all the radiation all over the place.
Now I guess it would depend on what grade and what type of material is used.
But that would be bad, to be sure.
President Bush went to Florida and assured people out of work that essentially he feels their pain.
He used hurt.
He feels their hurt.
But at the same time does not support any government help for the struggling tourism industry.
And I guess I, in general, agree with that.
I wouldn't want to see the government help the tourist industry, but I sure do want to see the tourist industry get better.
And I'm not sure what it's going to take.
I suppose Bin Laden's head on a stick will be a good start.
People are afraid to fly.
They're afraid to go out.
They're afraid to leave their home.
They're afraid to do almost everything.
And people are expecting, and for one reason, because the government continues to issue alerts, they are expecting something else to happen.
And I'm not necessarily criticizing the government's issuance of these alerts.
I've thought a lot about that, and even as they give them non-specific but credible, they always say, I guess it's better they do it than they don't.
I suppose.
You know, it's a close call, and I'm sure it is for them, too.
Afghanistan's post-Taliban political course is being set now.
A UN spokesman said Wednesday that Afghan negotiators were near agreement on some sort of power-sharing plan.
There are about four factions that are going to get together and share power, and rarely does that work.
And again, I express my worry that I wonder if the new guys are going to be any better than the old guys.
We'll have to wait and find out.
The Environmental Protection Agency today ordered tons of PCBs removed from New York's Upper Hudson River, setting in motion one of the largest dredging operations in our nation's history.
General Electric Company, Which dumped, it said, 1.3 million pounds of PCBs into the river before the substance was banned by the federal government in 77.
Bitterly opposes the dredging.
Could cost the company about five and a half a billion dollars.
Five hundred million dollars.
So I'm sure they do oppose it.
Rain clouds over the launch pad forced NASA to call off today's liftoff of space shuttle Endeavour.
On a flight to deliver a new crew to the International Space Station.
It was the latest delay for an Endeavor, Endeavor rather, and it's, uh, and it's seven astronauts.
I held up, you recall, last week by Space Station Trouble.
They couldn't dock.
They were worried about a collision of some sort.
This next item is going to shock, uh, it's going to really shock you.
I wonder how many of you remember, if you're old enough, Rooting for Bobby Fischer.
Do you remember Bobby Fischer, the grand champion of chess?
Who played Boris Spassky.
Remember that?
Oh, what a world-class event that was, huh?
And Americans cheered Bobby Fischer worldwide.
Remember?
Well, if you're old enough, you remember.
Listen to this.
It's from the UK Telegraph, a very respected publication in the United Kingdom.
Prepare yourself.
Bobby Fisher, the reclusive American chess grandmaster, has broken years of silence to support, now listen, to support the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
The Telegraph has discovered that Mr. Fisher gave an interview to an obscure radio station in the Philippines hours after the events on September 11th.
Mr. Fisher is already wanted for questioning by the FBI for breaking UN sanctions by taking part in a chess match in Serbia against Boris Spassky in 1992, his first in 20 years.
In an interview on September 11th with Radio Bombo in Bagua City, Mr. Fisher said, quote, This is all wonderful news.
It is time to finish off the U.S.
once and for all.
I was happy and could not believe what was happening.
All the crimes the U.S.
has committed in the world, this just shows what goes around, comes around, even to the U.S.
I applaud the act.
The U.S.
and Israel have been slaughtering the Palestinians for years.
Now it's coming back at the U.S.
Mr. Fisher, 58, also attacked Israel and Jews, who he claimed were responsible for bringing the attack on the World Trade Center.
He gave the interview because he is a friend of the station manager there.
Last night, Mr. McCurdo confirmed he took the call from Mr. Fisher and then later interviewed him on the air, live on the air.
He's met Mr. Fisher on several previous occasions with Mr. Torrey.
Mr. McCurdo said, Torrey is the station manager, McCurdo said, Bobby rang me up while he was watching the events in New York live on TV.
He felt so strongly about what he was watching He wanted to say the American government had it coming to them.
And there's more to the story, but that's quite enough, is it not, for you?
Bobby Fisher.
Can you believe it?
If you would like to read the entire story, we've got a link to the UK story on our website.
You get there, of course, by going to artbell.com.
And just go up toward the What's New and go up instead of down and when you do you'll see news and other websites and we'll have the link right there for you.
I just, I just, I couldn't believe this.
I couldn't believe it when I read it.
But I'm sorry, it is true.
Do you remember last night a young man called about hearing voices It's a very interesting call, actually, and promoted a lot of later comment.
and uh...
and i've got quite a bit of comment for you as as a matter of fact on it
so i guess uh... i really ought to just uh... i had a good read these although
what i really ought to do is uh... first take a uh...
i'll take a quick break if I can get it together here and then when I come back we'll
talk a little bit about this voices in the night in the head in the ear whatever
you want to call it.
People think automatically you're talking to some kind of a nut but judging from the
amount of response I had after listening to that young man last night and that's what
we do here rather than automatically label anybody a nut for what they're saying.
We listen to what they're saying and then a lot of times we get on to stories that other people ignore because they don't listen to people like that.
Here we do.
More of that in a moment.
All right.
Here we go.
After the call last night, there was discussion on the air about this young man who heard in that little gray area between sleep or between, you know, consciousness and sleep, You're in a particularly interesting vulnerable state and he said he heard a cacophony of voices.
Thousands of voices.
And then it would fade down to one voice which he really could not understand and and so came all these emails.
Here's one from Debbie.
I know what that young man was talking about when he described lots of voices right before falling asleep and these voices aren't speaking words that are intelligible sometimes it's one single voice and you hear your name but you don't understand anything else that's being said I used to have that very badly when I was a kid probably from about age eight or so through my middle teens it's very strange and definitely very disturbing in my case certain words would be repeated in these episodes it was like a
Recurring nightmare in a way because it often made it difficult for me to go back to sleep usually Kind of like the caller was saying it would dwindle down to only one voice before it stopped Or this one hello There was a guy who called your show last night between 10 and 10 30 who said that he heard voices hundreds of them but sometimes only one voice and it called his name and I began to experience this also at about age 14 in the months of June, July, and August.
Three years before it started, I had a friend who was shot and killed.
The voice always sounded like hers to me.
It would call my name over and over and over for hours with the occasional come to me thrown in.
As long as I was busy with school, I never heard it.
I dreamed, I rather dreaded the summer months, for I knew it would start again.
That's from Kimberly, you know, and I could go on and on and on like that.
So, not everybody who hears voices is schizophrenic.
Maybe there's something else going on out there, but of course, anytime you hear anybody say that, you automatically assume schizophrenia or something like it.
And maybe it just isn't so.
And maybe because people do make those assumptions about somebody who would make a statement like that, people don't make them.
Now, of course, they'll talk to me about this sort of thing, because I will listen.
But a lot of other people are instantly judgmental.
And so, you know, the stories just simply never get told.
A little later tonight, we're going to be talking about all kinds of interesting things.
It'll be talking about UFOs.
Uh, the paranormal.
Mostly, I suppose, the paranormal, like the Brown Mountain Lights.
Joshua P. Warren is going to be here.
Should be very interesting.
So, for now, two open lines, we go.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Good morning.
Hello, Art.
Good morning.
Hi, sir.
Yes.
Uh, Nashville?
Yes, sir.
Turn your radio off, please.
Yeah, I got it.
Okay.
I'm the one that Linda Howe interviewed on Dreamland about 1998 that worked at the test site with Otto Krauss.
I don't know if you remember.
No, you know what?
I don't.
I'm sorry, not yet.
She played the interview on the Dreamland show with you when I worked out of Area 9 and had been in Area 51.
Oh, I remember something about Area 9.
Yeah.
I'd worked with Project Physicist Otto Krauss.
Something I wanted to comment about last night.
I've been in the audio business as an engineer and all for most of my life since I left the test site and I'm considered one of the leading experts in subliminal audio.
Yes sir.
I did the Nightingale Comet subliminal winner album with Dennis Waitley.
Right.
And have done a number of other things.
But what you were trying to think of was the Trenton, New Jersey situation with the 1956, with the movie Picnic, when they edited Eat Coke and, I mean, Eat Popcorn and Drink Coca-Cola.
Yeah, that's right.
Into the thing, and what happened is the Senate had a hearing on that, and because they had a hearing and it was covered with all the press, everybody assumes that they passed a law.
Passed a law, and you're saying they did not?
They did not.
Yeah, that's what Dr. Megan said last night.
There are no laws.
In fact, about five years ago, I invented a piece of equipment that had subliminal audio with music systems, with music and all.
We've used it in restaurants and warehouses and all for safety.
Yes, but I believe there are laws with regard to broadcast.
No, what happened is about eight years or ten years ago, the FCC come out and said, Advertisers should not use subliminal messages unknowingly, otherwise they're in danger of losing their license.
It was never a law, it was a threat that they come out with.
Well, when the FCC speaks, broadcasters listen.
One of the things that they can do now with video is the same thing that I can do with
audio, which is they can video the image and behind the image that's there, you never see
it or you never hear it with mine until you remove the primary.
Once you remove the primary, there's the visual or the audio of the secondary immediately.
I did a lot of research with...
Well, what can you tell me, I asked Dr. Biggach and I'm going to ask you, what can you tell
me about the effectiveness of subliminal messages?
He talked about, you know, the anti-shoplifting stuff and how effective that was.
Yeah, that's all worked fine.
I mean, it works great.
We have a test that we go in and go to a conference room with a corporate conference room.
We tell the head of the corporation or a couple of other people what this message is going
to be playing on their music and what to watch for and in five minutes everybody in there
will be doing this.
I will give you an example if you follow along.
Spell the word pots like in flower pots.
P-O-T-S.
Now say it.
Pots.
Now spell it again.
P-O-T-S.
Now answer me this question as soon as I ask you.
What is the first thing you do when you come to green light?
Stop.
You didn't answer right away but stop.
Pots and stop is the same word frontwards and backwards.
If you turn pots around, it'll say stop.
Well, I hesitated because I thought you were trying to trap me into saying something awful on the radio.
No, no, no.
People do that, sir.
Yeah, I understand.
But if you turn either one of those words around, and that's why, like, so many of the rock groups have actually gotten very sophisticated with years in this where they decide what they want to say
backwards and know how to say it frontwards like the Eagles did in Hotel California album.
Joe Walsh was very into the Antonio LeVe thing.
Oh sure.
Bill Sedgwick was a friend of mine and uh...
There were many, many groups that did backwards.
Right.
Jimmy Page and different ones where it says and still those voices are calling from far
away the way they worded that.
If you play it backwards it says F you Lord because you don't know where it's at.
Just as plain as day, a three-year-old kid could tell you what it says.
Beatles did a lot of it, too.
Yeah, they started it with the White Album.
Sure.
And they were the first ones that did it.
Judas Priest did it really strong with this Spain Class album.
It was just loaded with backwards.
Listen, as long as I've got you, would you like to say anything about the time you worked at Area 51?
Most of it, I'd say.
I grew up in Farmington, New Mexico.
We saw the UFOs a couple of different times in Farmington when I was nine and eleven years old.
We saw them on the playground.
There was a huge amount of them in triangular formation.
Then they had the crash between Farmington and Aztec.
It came out in the paper there.
And my mom had read me this.
Listen, hold your story right there.
Can you hold through the break?
Sure.
All right, good.
Stay right there.
And when you come back, we'll pick your mind a little bit about Area 51.
That interview was a long time ago.
Farmington.
And, of course, what happened at Roswell.
I'm Art Bell from the high desert.
This is Coast to Coast AM in the nighttime.
Saturday night I was downtown, looking for my FBI.
Sitting in an air-stuffed bedroom with a bottle of wine.
Two leather boots are on my website, but I keep on doing wrong.
I'm a man of my word.
Glad to have you back.
So, you know, remind me, okay, well, continue.
Your mom, you said.
Yeah, well, anyway, she read the article.
The article's the front page of the Farmington Daily Times, and it said that there had been a crash between Farmington and Aztec at Hart Canyon, which is an area that's a friend of mine, and I rode our horses out there all the time.
Right.
The plane had crashed.
The UFO had crashed.
It had a pinhole in the porthole, and there were three charred bodies inside that were about four foot high in stature.
So anyway, the next day it came out and said that this was a hoax.
There was nothing to it.
So my friend and I decided that we'd ride our horses out there come Saturday morning and see what was going on, because occasionally you might see a set of jeep tracks out in that area, but you never really saw many tracks or anything.
So we rode out there, and when we got out there, there were tracks everywhere.
There was all kinds of truck tracks and jeep, car tracks, whatever it was.
And it looked like they had a circus out there or something, the amount of tracks there were.
So anyway, I went on to go to work for Lawrence Radiation Laboratory.
I did not work at Area 51.
I went to Area 51 on occasion, but I actually worked for the Lawrence Radiation Laboratory, University of California.
And I was in the Diagnostic Photography Department out there and was assigned to Project Physicist Otto Krauss, which is one of the German scientists that we had.
And so a lot of times we'd have to stay out there and do drive runs before shots to make sure all the scope traces and all that thing were up to par.
And we would play cards.
Otto was a great heart player.
We'd play hearts to pass the time and we got in, this night was me and Otto and Rufus Bond, this friend of mine and two or three other people, an MJ-12 guy, and we were playing cards and the thing come up about the UFOs that we saw around there, the photography department was the only one allowed binoculars.
May I ask you a quick, quick question?
Sure.
You said MJ-12 people.
Right.
You absolutely know for sure that MJ-12 is real?
Exists?
I know that's what they call them.
I know what they said at a cafeteria before Kennedy was killed.
We saw them out there all the time.
They were kind of like the super people in charge, but without really saying so.
You actually heard references to that?
Well, I heard him say before he came out there, don't take him here and don't take him there, and for God's sake, don't take him to Area 51.
So he came out there in the helicopter and flew around.
As soon as he went back to Washington, he cut out all of our overtime and our per diem and all this, everything that he could do, I guess, because he was teed off about it.
He did.
Then it teed him off and I heard another conversation that Where they were really teed off about it makes it, you know.
So, I mean, when Kennedy got killed, I thought they killed him.
They actually said Majestic 12, though.
You heard somebody say that.
MJ-12.
Yeah, that's what Otto said.
This MJ-12 guy.
Okay.
And that's the way they referred to him.
Anyway, in the conversation, it come up about the UFOs, and I was telling Otto about this deal over in Aztec when I was, grew up in Farmington.
He and the other guy both said to me, at the time it didn't really register with me until
the night you played the MJ-12 stuff and all.
And then I realized what they meant by what they said.
I was just a 22 year old kid out there at the time and while I was in charge of what
I was in charge of at 22 years old I looked back and said, man I couldn't believe that
they put me in charge of something like that for that young of age.
But they both said, you remember that?
And I thought they were meaning because I was young.
I remembered that.
But now I don't think that's what they meant at all.
I think they meant that I don't remember that because nobody else in Farmington remembers this paper.
And I've tried to find it a number of times.
I've had my mom go to libraries.
There's like a week of the Daily Times missing.
Nobody, friends of mine that I know would have kept something like that, they don't remember it.
This friend of mine don't remember riding out there on the horse with me.
You know, and, uh... Did you ever, uh, see anything at, uh, Area 51 or any other area that... Well, when we went into Area 51, they always took us in a enclosed vehicle, so we couldn't see anything until we got inside the hangar where we got out.
That's what I've heard.
But, uh, from the top of Area 12, which is a mesa, uh, there are areas up there that you can take binoculars and look over at Area 51, and we used to go up there to pass time and watch the UFOs maneuver over in Area 51.
When they were, you know, they were just incredible.
Yeah, I mean, you could see them over in Yucca Flat.
Sometimes the Red Batch people would see them over there.
Yeah.
In Yucca Flat area, because, you know, the Red Batch people were non-classified people.
Well, we see a lot of them right here in Pahrump.
Late in the evening, and at night, you could see them, because they always have this kind of whitish glow to them.
Yeah, not an intentional light, but a glow.
You're absolutely right.
Yeah, right, right.
Yeah, we see a lot of that.
All right, well, listen, I've got to scoot, but I really, really thank you for calling in tonight.
Yeah, Linda knows how to contact me if you ever want to...
Contact me or talk to me.
She's got my number.
I'll follow up.
Thanks.
A suggestion.
Somebody you ought to have on your show sometime.
You know you've had Hal Lindsey on.
A guy named Hilton Sutton is probably the foremost prophecy teacher in the United States.
I went to a seminar that he had.
That I'm always interested in.
Sir, I've got to scoot.
I appreciate the call and I'll get hold of you through Linda.
Thank you very much.
Yeah, the unidentified flying objects, whatever they are out here, whether they're Area 51 or whatever, glow.
There's not intentional lights the way you would imagine seeing lights on an aircraft.
It's more of a glow that we think is the production of some sort of drive system.
Glow is the right word.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Oh, hello.
How are you doing tonight?
Just fine.
Where are you?
I'm calling from Louisville, Kentucky.
I'm listening to you on WTAM.
Yes, sir.
Okay.
How you doing?
Fine.
Okay.
Listen, Mark, you had somebody on your show a few years ago that I've been in personal contact with.
You haven't had him on in a while.
You remember Jeff Nyquist?
Oh, yes.
I mean, he's been talking.
He'd like to come back on your show sometime.
With all that's going on, he'd be a pretty good person with a lot of insight.
I would imagine so.
Actually, I think I did have him on again.
It hasn't been that long.
Okay.
Two quick things.
One's a prediction and one's a statement.
I don't know if you've been watching news here the last several days.
Oh yes.
There's been a lot of unusual statements coming from North Korea.
And especially if anything's coming back on Monday on your show.
Yep.
There's been a lot of maneuvering.
There's been a lot of tension rising.
The commander of the Marine Forces in Korea was at a conference in Texas last April.
And George Bush's father was there, you know, Papa Bush, and he basically said he expected fully a war on the Korean Peninsula within eight to 18 months.
Well, this would not surprise me, and it wouldn't surprise me to see Korea, North Korea, make a move while we're involved so heavily in Afghanistan and while the Middle East is right on the brink.
It would make all the sense in the world, of course.
Yeah, and he made a statement in April and December was the 8-month minimum, so here we are.
And the Japanese cut off these laundering money operations that were laundering billions to the North Koreans, kind of like what Bush did today with Hamas.
And Kim Il-sung's just been going nuts ever since we sent these additional fighter aircraft over.
But the reason we sent them over is because the Kitty Hawk is coming off Pakistan.
You're exactly right, sir.
And let me follow up with something somebody sent me earlier.
A fact somebody sent me.
I'm looking at the language of Israel's declaration of the PLO as a terror-sponsoring entity.
It looks as if Israel is going to topple the whole regime.
Today, in the U.S., we froze Hamas foundation money, which makes the U.S.
and Israel look like blood brothers in the eyes of the Muslim world, and will give the terrorist organization Hamas reason to launch attacks in the U.S.
The entire Middle East is well on its way to a regional war, and this is not even taking into consideration our own war on terror, with fugitive targets including Iraq, possibly Syria, and Iran.
The war dice are rolling ominously, and the atomic clock is about five till the top of the hour.
And I could not agree with that more.
The word eyes indeed are rolling ominously, and there is a lot going on.
Could something suddenly pop in Korea?
You bet.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
How are you, Maynard?
Hello, I can barely hear you, sir.
You're on a cell phone, apparently.
Ah, yes, sir.
There you go.
Alrighty, sorry about that.
I'll speak up.
Yeah, I'm from Corpus Christi, Texas.
Currently, uh...
Just crossed into Alabama from Tennessee. I'm driving a truck.
Yes, sir.
Got a little story I want to tell you about myself and about eight, nine friends of mine.
We were in South Texas where we were growing up, a little town called Alice.
It was about 78, 79, somewhere in there.
And we were all out in the field one night doing what young men would do.
And one of our group noticed three different points of light in the sky.
All right.
One was coming from the East, one from the West, and one from the South.
And they were all moving toward one particular point, pretty much directly above us.
Uh-huh.
And they looked to be about the size of stars.
They didn't look to be like planes.
You know as well as I, most People with the naked eye can tell a plane via the red and green lights on either side of the plane.
Most can, if you discount Venus, yes.
But they all ended up converging at that one point.
And?
Forming one point of light.
They sat there for about ten minutes.
And then they each went back their respective directions.
Remaining about the size and brightness of a star?
Correct.
What do you think you saw?
You know, like I said, this was the late 70s.
And even today, none of us could think of any type of technology man had available to them That would allow that to occur.
I mean, yes, we did have spacecraft.
The shuttles were just beginning to fly, if they were at that time.
Was it your impression that what you saw was occurring outside the atmosphere?
Yes.
Yes, absolutely.
It was definitely, from what I could determine, ascertain, it was definitely outside the atmosphere.
It was definitely Much higher than, like I said, an aircraft would be traveling, which would only be the atmosphere.
And, like I said, they were such fine points of light.
They looked like stars.
All right, sir.
I think I've got it.
I have no idea what you saw.
Some sort of galactic meeting, perhaps.
Gosh, who knows?
So much of that sort of thing going on.
There obviously is something to all of this.
And he sounded quite credible.
I wouldn't have the slightest idea, though, that, you know, what he saw happened in space.
All I can imagine and the first thing that pops to my mind is some sort of galactic meeting.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello, Art Bell.
This is Diane in Mozilla, Montana, listening on 1290 KGBO.
Hi there, Diane.
Hi.
I just had a, well, I had a dream on Saturday night that I was being attacked by the devil and I was awakened abruptly by my phone ringing and later that day I noticed that my bicep, my right bicep was sore and now I've developed bruises in the shape of hand prints on my right bicep, my left thigh and I have a large thumb print bruise on my
Left forearm. Oh my gosh, and this all happened. There was no injury the previous day that could possibly account
No, I'm a caregiver, and I don't really do anything very strenuous And I haven't been skating or bicycling lately so you were
attacked in your sleep I believe I was attacked in my sleep, and I was just
wondering if anyone else has had that experience Oh
Brother here we go I have a feeling that a lot of people have now.
Is there any possibility that you can send, certainly take any photographs that you're able to and send whatever you can decently?
We don't need nude pictures, you know.
I mean, is there anything you can show us in photographs?
I might can borrow a Polaroid and try that.
I just want to let you know I've been listening since 94.
I mean, this is something you should document.
You really should document.
If you have bruises in the shape of hands, I would really like to see them.
Well, this is the second time that something like this has happened.
And you're not the first one to tell me about something like this either.
Well, it's good to know I'm not alone, but it's awful creepy.
It's completely, completely creepy.
Yes, it is completely creepy.
When I tell people about it, they just kind of poo-poo me and shake their heads.
Well, I don't.
I don't.
So, really, I'm serious.
I don't know if you can find a Polaroid these days, but don't you have a friend like with a digital camera or something like that?
Oh, I would have to do some thinking.
Maybe I'll do the best I can, Art.
Do you have a computer?
I have an old Apple that I do word processing on.
I'm also an editor here in town.
Oh, alright.
Well then, you'd probably be in position to be able to get a photograph.
I might be able to go down to the local Cyber Shack and maybe get some pictures.
I'll try.
And send them to artbellatminespring.com?
Yes, I've got your website.
I get to it occasionally and get to see what's up there.
Well, if you send me some good photos, you may end up on it.
Thank you, Art.
Alright?
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much and take care.
Okay, listen.
This is, uh, by far not the first report I've had of this attack business, uh, say, leaving marks and scars.
In your sleep?
My, my, my.
The veil does seem to be getting thinner, doesn't it?
More and more of something or another seems to be coming through.
First-time caller line, you're on the air.
Hello.
All right.
Turn your radio off, please.
It's off.
Yes, sir.
I just want to let you know, first and foremost, I hold you in very high regard.
Thank you.
I've had this postulate that I've always wanted to put forth to you.
OK.
It was that there were some huge calamity, like a nuclear explosion.
Yes.
Some sort of a comet hitting the Earth, something like that, where a hundred thousand people died all at the same time.
Yes.
Would anybody know the difference?
Yes.
Would anybody notice?
Oh yes, they would.
They noticed when 3,000 or 4,000 died in New York, they noticed that real well.
That's not what I mean.
I mean that the people that actually perish, thousands at a time, would they notice any type of transference?
Would they notice that something happened?
Oh, oh, I'm sorry.
An entirely different question.
Huh, well that depends on your view of the, uh, of the afterlife, I suppose.
Uh, would they know what had happened to them?
Yeah, uh, well, yes and no.
My question is...
Like, let's say, as morbid as it is, you're there one second, and then the next you're gone, among hundreds of thousands of others.
Let's say it's a huge calamity.
Yeah, I'm with you.
Sure.
Would your consciousness notice any difference?
Would there be any change in your surroundings, in your reality, in your environment?
Would anything change?
If a million people crossed at the same time?
If a hundred people in a plane crashed at the same time, and all crossed at the exact same moment?
Would there be any type of consciousness transferal where you wouldn't even notice anything happened?
Would you just continue on in some vein of the universe that allowed for nothing to really have happened?
Well, I go back to my original statement.
It kind of depends on the nature of the afterlife, doesn't it?
It does, and it's so diverse, it's hard to really speculate.
What are the chances, or let's say how close are you?
You know, in a way, sir, that's what we're going to be talking about with my guest tonight.
You know, we're going to be talking about apparitions and ghosts and so forth and so on, and so we'll talk about exactly that.
Tonight's program is going to be of a great deal of interest to you.
Art?
Yes?
What about having John Edward on the program?
The Crossing Over type John Edward?
You know the man.
Oh, sure.
I left a message on John Edward's answering machine.
He has one.
Yeah, he does.
And I have a feeling that it got lost in the millions of messages and he had no idea who I am.
One of these days, though, I'm sure we'll have John Edward on.
And David Blaine.
I'll see what I can do.
You're the man and I love you.
Have a good night, sir.
Yeah, me too.
I can feel it, can't you?
All over the world, actually.
I see earthquakes and lightning I see bad times today
It does not feel good Don't go around tonight
But if I'm to take your life There's a bad moon on the rise
I hear hurricanes are blowing I know the end is coming soon
I feel the river overflowing Now, Joshua P. Warren
I'm Joshua Warren.
www.frostpandemic.com Now comes Joshua P. Warren.
He is a paranormal investigator.
He has investigated something called the Brown Mountain Lights.
We're going to find out all about those here in a moment.
He's a remarkable man, and he is located, as a matter of fact, let's ask him where he is located.
Mr. Warren, where are you?
I'm in Asheville, North Carolina.
Ah, and Asheville itself is a pretty haunted place, is it not?
Indeed it is.
It's the perfect place for a ghost hunter to live.
Alright, well, a ghost hunter, is that what you would call yourself?
Actually, a paranormal investigator, but I specialize in ghost research, but I'm open-minded about taking a look at anything which defies the understanding of conventional science.
Well, help me out.
I've heard people mention it, but it's on the other coast from where I am, so I don't know a lot about the Brown Mountain Lights.
What are they?
Well, the Brown Mountain Lights are unexplained illuminations that have appeared on and around a ridge in the Pisgah National Forest in Burke County, North Carolina, for perhaps as long as 800 years.
And they've been investigated at least three times by the United States government, twice by the U.S.
Geological Survey, once by the Weather Service.
Really?
The Smithsonian has investigated them.
They've also been very popular for Creative Minds' hit bluegrass song called The Legend of the Brown Mountain Light, surfaced in the 60s, and just recently, I believe in 99, They were featured on an episode of the X-Files.
Okay, how do these lights manifest?
In other words, how do witnesses describe what they see?
Well, there are many tales about the lights appearing in different fashions, in different forms.
I'll tell you basically how they appear.
They are balls of light, not necessarily spheres, but orbicular lights.
They've been reported in virtually all colors.
And sometimes one or two lights will appear on this ridge and sit there and flare brightly and then die back down and then disappear.
Other times they do even stranger things.
For example, sometimes two or three lights will sort of congregate and then one light will divide into several smaller lights.
These smaller lights will sort of orbit around each other, or so it appears, and then they actually line up and move.
In a line from right to left, usually across this ridge until they disappear over the top.
Are you aware that lights of the sort you're talking about have been associated with crop circles?
Well, you know, I've heard lots of tales about unexplained lights appearing at those areas, but I've never heard the specific descriptions about the movement of the lights.
Those types of lights lining up, for example, are described with crop circles.
Oh, yes.
Yes, yes.
Small lights flitting about and then the instant appearance of a crop circle.
Now, I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing here, but this has been going on for so long.
I'm going to ask you to go out on a limb and just speculate for me what it might be.
Do you think it's a natural occurrence?
some sort of disturbance from the earth or atmospheric disturbance or something a bit
more paranormal?
Well, I personally believe at this point that we're looking at a manifestation of the earth,
a natural manifestation, albeit a certainly bizarre one.
And I say that simply because at this point, based upon ten plus years of research, I've never found any evidence to make me necessarily believe there's any reason to jump to Yes, I have.
supernatural conclusion so to speak.
But you know I've addressed theories regarding ball lightning and of course marsh gas.
There's some new information about plasma balls.
I don't know if you've been keeping up on that or not.
Yes I have and in fact if I were to go out on a limb and say that I had a feeling for
what the lights might be, I would probably shoot in that direction.
I would say some sort of an electrical plasma.
But of course, again, one of the things that's so fascinating about the light is no one can say for sure at this point.
There's just not enough evidence to conclusively lead us in a particular direction.
Well, scientists have now found that these plasma balls are able to sustain themselves and even grow in energy.
And nobody, no, in other words, it just We don't even begin to understand how they form and certainly how they grow and how they move.
And I guess it must be from the Earth.
So that would be my best guess too.
Something weird from the Earth.
And that may even track right back to some crop circles.
I'm sure some crop circles are hoaxed and done by humans, but surely we know many are not.
And it could be from our own Earth.
Very interesting.
Yes, absolutely.
And one thing that I noticed shortly after beginning research on the mountain is that there are a lot of faults near the mountain.
And so it is possible, even though geologists claim these faults do not currently move, It's possible that if they do move sometimes, and of course, by means of the piezoelectric effect, produce electricity, that might at least play some role in the formation of a plasma.
It sure might.
Well, listen, these guys always say those faults don't move until they move.
And they say, oh, the fault moved.
Yeah.
We had an earthquake.
Yeah.
All right.
Is there any connection, do you believe, between alien visitation or presence and what might be going on at Brown Mountain?
Well, there are certainly lots and lots of reports of alien-oriented activity taking place around the mountain.
And before I give you some examples, I will also tell you that during an expedition that our team did last month, We actually witnessed and videotaped an unidentified flying object around the mountain, which was not consistent with any of the lights we are used to seeing.
You have it on videotape?
That's correct.
Two video cameras were rolling simultaneously and we captured this, whatever it is.
Oh.
And I can't say that it's a spaceship with aliens in it, but it was certainly an unidentified flying object.
We were about maybe a thousand yards from or a thousand feet I should say from the mountain
Oh at about 10 p.m. At night and We were there of course with the intention of observing the
traditional lights But at one point I was the first researcher who noticed a
light that looked like a very bright white star That was somewhere low to the tree line
I couldn't tell how if it was close to the ridge itself or not
But it was certainly in the vicinity and this light was not blinking
It wasn't making any noise and it over the period of about one minute rose
Straight up into the air until it just vanished into outer space
And so we and and And most of this you caught on tape?
Yes, indeed.
We have some really good quality video.
Oh, is it now?
Yes.
Have you, perchance, taken any still frames from this?
Well, we have certainly examined the video footage frame by frame.
At this point, we can't conclusively say that we see a particular form or shape or anything that would give us more of a clue of what it is other than just a bright white ball of light.
But I would be happy to send some stills on to you.
I would really enjoy that.
Yes, I love putting things like this on my website.
Sure.
It's very interesting.
So, what do you think you saw?
Well, we are certainly familiar with the traditional aircraft, with airplanes or satellites for that matter, and things which travel horizontally, so to speak, across the sky, but we have never seen anything quite like that.
Of course, I wouldn't even begin to speculate, but I will tell you About some of the tales that I have been told regarding UFO activity in that area, if perhaps our sighting fits in, a lot of people believe that Brown Mountain is actually hollow, or at least it has hollow portions, and the interior of the mountain serves as some sort of an alien landing base.
One man who was a great proponent of this idea was a gentleman named Ralph Lell.
Unfortunately, he died some years ago, and I don't have any direct knowledge from what
he experienced, but according to people who knew him and writings that he published, he
claimed that he learned to communicate, as he put it, with the lights, that he could
ask them questions and they would move in a certain way to answer them, until finally
one night he followed them through the woods and they led him to a door on Brown Mountain
that he went into this door where he was greeted by extraterrestrials who told him that they
had come here with the purpose of trying to prevent mankind from destroying himself.
They volunteered to take Mr. Lell and their spaceship off to another planet where they
told him even more about how mankind was seeded onto this planet because we had destroyed
another planet we were on.
Really?
Why would they propagate such losers?
And by the way, looking at the present world situation, they must be profoundly disappointed in our behavior.
One would think.
One would certainly think.
I'll tell you what makes Lale's story even more peculiar is that he had a little shop in the vicinity called the Outer Space Rock Shop Museum, and he used the funds from this shop in order to do his research.
In the back room of his shop, he had a small, mummified body.
What?
A small, mummified body, which he claimed was the body of an alien.
Are there photographs of this?
I have seen a photograph of this, and strangely enough, after he died, someone or some entity supposedly came in with a bulldozer and Wiped out his shop, and wiped clean any trace he had ever been there, and no one seems to know what happened to this mummy.
But I have seen a photograph of it.
And, in fact, I am in possession of a photograph, and I'd be happy to send it on to you.
Oh, are you really?
Do you have it in handy computer form by any chance?
You know, I don't have it scanned in, and as a matter of fact, my scanner is not functioning.
I could take a JPEG of it with a Mavica and send it, even though it wouldn't be good quality.
And of course, I don't have rights to this picture, but this photograph... Well, who does?
You know, I really don't know.
I came across this photograph in a book that includes the Brown Mountain Lights, but I don't believe the photograph is even credited in the book.
But nonetheless, I'll send it on to you and see if I can figure out.
Oh yes, please.
But this photograph shows what appears to be A body that looks somewhat like a pygmy.
A small, dark-skinned, shriveled body with a bit of a loincloth over the groin.
It's a black and white photograph, not very good quality, but you can certainly distinctly see the figure.
I do know at least one other person, actually maybe two people, who did see this body in person themselves.
And their comments were?
Well, they said they didn't know what it was.
They said that they did not have any reason to believe that this was an alien, but it was certainly a small body.
So, you know, everybody is inconclusive about that.
You know, a lot of people thought that Mr. Lill was an unstable person, of course, and so they just assumed that anything attached to him didn't have a great deal of credibility.
Well, you've talked about him quite some bit now.
You must have a better opinion.
Well, you know, I really haven't formed a particular opinion about him simply because most of the information I have has come through other people, and I've never made the effort to try to track down relatives, say, or do something along those lines to find out information directly.
But I think it's certainly compelling that, you know, Mr. Lell had all these stories about experiences and encounters he had which seem in many ways consistent with what a lot of other people have described.
And then, again, I myself can say that we have documented an unexplainable or at least unidentifiable object flying around up there.
So, you know, it's certainly a compelling situation, if nothing else.
My mom lives there in Asheville, North Carolina.
Really?
Yes, she really does.
And so, it is kind of a haunted place, eh?
Yes, it is.
In fact, I think that Perhaps it's because of some geomagnetic influence or something like that, but a lot of mountains seem to harbor ghostly activity, and we certainly have no shortage of ghosts here in this area, and in the Blue Ridge Mountains in general.
I attribute that personally to anomalous geomagnetic effects in the area of mountains, and certainly there in the Blue Ridge Mountains.
That's my best guess anyway.
What is your general philosophy with regard to paranormal research since you've been doing it?
I see in your bio since about age 13, right?
That's correct, yes.
Okay, so how do you feel?
You know, I had a very, very interesting call in the hour prior to your coming on.
I don't know whether you heard it or not.
But a gentleman called and said, if a million people, a hundred thousand, or a million people, or a multitude of people were to be killed at once in some sort of catastrophic event, you know, A comet slamming into Earth or a big atomic blast or whatever.
Would they know what instantly would occur?
Obviously, they'd be so instantly dead, they would have probably, if they did have continued consciousness in any form, no idea of what had just happened to them.
I suppose you could ask a question about a single individual dying that quickly as well as many.
But it does go to what you think about the afterlife.
Do you think the source of these sorts of deaths contribute to ghosts who frankly don't know they're dead?
Yes, I certainly do.
I feel like that if indeed we have a consciousness which transcends this physical body, then It makes sense that under some circumstances, when a death occurs, especially if it's fast or it's tragic, that there would be some level of confusion there.
Of course, unfinished business is the classic way of viewing it, but it seems to me that most of the time when you encounter a haunting or some sort of ghostly activity which is persistent, the personality, so to speak, of the entity involved is a very possessive personality.
Do you think that's the reason, or do you think they are sort of stuck to something?
money it could be anything uh... but whatever uh... this entity did not want to leave behind the wants to
stick around to be with or be a part of do you think that's the reason or do
you think they are sort of stopped to something i mean
a lot of times it seems like in a haunted house uh... they are virtually stuck in that house
I mean, almost stuck where they died.
Not remaining there necessarily by their own choosing, but stuck there.
Right.
Yeah, that is a very peculiar situation.
It does seem that in some cases spirits have the ability to travel wherever they choose.
In other cases, like you've just pointed out, it seems like there is some invisible force or invisible principle, if you will, which traps them there.
And we can't really say that we have any evidence to give us an idea about what that is.
But it might have something to do with the fact that when you live in a particular location and you make that your home, you permeate it with your energy, so to speak.
Maybe on an energy level, after you pass on, that area which you have sort of prepared for yourself in life is an easier area Or maybe it's the spot where it's easiest for you to transition.
something that you have literally done to this area in life by your mere presence and
by saturating this area with your presence that makes this the spot you have to stay.
I mean, again, we can only speculate, but it's funny to see how sometimes they do seem
to have much more freedom than in other cases.
Or maybe it's the spot where it's easiest for you to transition.
In other words, maybe when you die, it's necessary that you have familiar surroundings so you
don't go into some sort of psychic shock.
Yes, that's true.
I don't know.
I'm just guessing.
Uh, alright, when we get back, I want to talk to you about two different types of ghosts.
And to me, there are two very distinctive, different kinds of ghosts.
Type one and type two.
And I'm real worried about Well, I guess type one.
Wouldn't matter, I could assign either type.
I'm worried about it, though.
you know, the one that has continued consciousness and knows it's dead.
The sun comes up on a city little town, down around San Antonio
And the folks are rising for another day, Browns are bound their homes
People of the town are strange And the browns wear a gain
Where you talking about?
You are on the air on the International Liverpool TV.
Where are you calling from, please?
I'm from Scotland.
You are the first caller from Scotland.
Where are you, please?
I'm in the dressing room.
♪♪♪ Girl, you gotta love your man.
you Girl, you gotta love your man.
To recharge Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
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This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
With Joshua P. Warren.
He started all this when he was 13.
His articles have been published internationally.
Here his work have been featured in mainstream periodicals as Southern Living, Delta Sky, Fate, New Woman, New York Times.
Something about the author.
A winning of the University of North Carolina Thomas Wolfe Award for Fiction.
He wrote columns and articles for the Asheville Citizen Times from 1992 through 1995.
He's a paranormal investigator.
We'll get right back to him.
By the way, you know the whole David Blaine levitation thing?
Uh, Curt Jensen called me on the air and said he would send me a video of, uh, himself doing what he thinks is the same trick, and he has done so, and you really should see it.
It's on my website now.
He says, uh, hey, I spoke to you on the air, said that I was into a video of me doing the Balducci levitation that Blaine does on the streets.
Attached is that video, and Again, you must remember you are searching for an explanation for a screenshot from a TV special of Blaine's in which the levitation was exaggerated and rigged for the camera only.
You have my guarantee as a magician that the video you'll see of me doing it is what you really see in person.
Point being, you've been worked over mentally by an inaccurate representation of levitation thanks to Blaine and the producers of the TV special who thought it would look better to fudge the illusion a bit from reality.
I hope you post this on your site so others can be enlightened on the matter.
And it's a Windows Media Player video, and when you watch it, I really must admit that it does have the exact same Blaine illusion, or it creates the illusion.
He points at the rug, he pats the rug, and then he stands facing away from us at sort of a slight angle so as to hide the end.
By God, it looks like he's levitating in the air.
It's pretty cool.
So if you want to check that out, you are welcome to.
Thank you very much, Kurt, for sending that along.
That's on the website tonight, right now, in fact.
And it's pretty impressive.
I must say, pretty impressive.
Alright, before the break, I was about to break into the old two types of ghost things, and there are two types, to me anyway.
Type one, Joshua seems to be a ghost that does some repeated act as though it was a last act in life you know the white the lady in the white walking down the road or somebody tromping across the attic in the sound of chains and steps or some act this ghost repeatedly does it's kinda like you'd think of a tape loop over and over again eternally in something that must represent some awful hell if there really is a consciousness behind it
And then there's a second type of ghost that really worries me, and that's the one that appears to have a continued consciousness.
In other words, is able to interact with living people in real time with regard to real ongoing events.
Would you agree those are the two general types?
Yes, I would.
I call them imprints and entities, actually.
So, you know, the entity being the conscious sort, and of course the imprint being more like the tape loop being played over and over.
Right.
Have you come to any personal conclusions about why there are these two types and what they represent?
Well, I believe that usually when you have one of these imprints, as I call them, they are associated with an event, generally speaking.
which was very intense or traumatic.
And of course, that is not always the case, but that is, you know, many times the case.
And it seems like that, well, you see, the interesting thing
about that particular type of manifestation is it really tugs at our understanding of physics and time in general.
It's possible that basically these events are so powerful that they imprinted themselves on an environment
which we will someday learn is sensitive in the same way that an audio tape is sensitive to electromagnetic energy.
If the environment can be imprinted upon the same way we can imprint upon an audio tape, then something which extends an enormous amount of electromagnetic energy or emotional energy, if you will, might indeed called an imprint. Now of course that could be an imprint
which could only be perceived by someone who has eyes, so to speak, which are sensitive to that
or it could be that anyone is capable of observing that at the right moment when there is
a time slip, you might say. Well as long as we're on this imprint subject, are you aware of the reports
of living ghosts? In other words, I've had a number of reports and talked to a number of
investigators who have investigated
ghosts of living people.
You know, like a lady lives in a house for 30 or 40 years, moves out, and then even though she is still alive, living in Toledo now or something, there is still something walking around the house or inhabiting the house that is this lady.
Right.
Yeah, that's really not too uncommon.
It's usually a case where this apparition is a glimpse, though, instead of an interactive sort of situation.
But if someone lives in a house and really permeates that place with his or her energy, then it's possible they could create an imprint which haunts the house, so to speak, even before they're dead.
Or it could be that someone who has A gift, you might say, has eyes which at certain times are able to see what took place at a location in the past.
Really, you know, it's interesting.
There's a quote by Einstein that always comes to mind when I discuss this topic.
His quote was, ìThe distinction between past, present, and future is only an illusion, however persistent.î What that would imply is that So to speak, all time is taking place at once.
We are simply experiencing it little by little.
We are moving through.
Right.
And therefore, time is a flexible thing based upon the observer and how that observer is moving through the universe.
And so, of course, you can see the direct correlation there between this idea of ghostly activity via forms of imprints And these concepts about what is time, what is space, and what is our potential to sort of transcend these ideas we have about what is past, present, and future.
Well, the whole subject of time has been an eternal fascination of mine all my life.
All my life.
All right.
I took a call also in the first hour, similar to calls that I have taken recently, a young lady called.
And this will go to at least the second type of ghost, and maybe a little further.
But she called and said that she has been attacked by an entity in bed.
And attacked so severely, Joshua, that she has black and blue marks in the shape of hands on her arms and on her thighs.
And she's going to take photographs for me and send them to me, but attacked that severely.
Have you heard of that sort of thing?
Yes, I have.
As a matter of fact, just last month, I investigated a location in South Carolina where those kinds of attacks have apparently taken place, and the owners of the location have photographs of themselves with bruises and various types of red markings across the throats and things of that nature, and they have described Uh... you know the the same sort of scenario being in bed or at night or in the bedroom whatever the case and this entity sometimes visible sometimes invisible entering and uh... you know having his or her way with them sexually uh... sometimes and sometimes just bruising them and uh...
In a case like this, what kind of class would you put an entity of that sort in?
Is that a ghost?
Is that some kind of evil entity?
Do you believe there are evil entities separate from disincarnate souls?
Well, simply based on what we can document and the evidence that we have, I can't make any distinction at this point between One type of spirit and another.
For example, here in life, we consider good people and bad people and every shade in between, and I tend to think of it being the same way in the spirit world.
Now, of course, the difference is you or I right now could go out and do something horrible, but we choose not to.
Maybe there are some entities which have the power and, more importantly, the will To do these evil things, things that we would interpret as evil, but I don't necessarily know that we have any reason to believe that those are a separate type of individual than what was once a human.
Yeah, but wouldn't that sort of ruin our concept of the afterlife?
I mean, somehow most of us, I think, think that these killers and criminals and really bad, bad people When they die, unless they repent, if that's what you believe, generally go on to some sort of abysmal hell.
They don't get to continue their crimes and their havoc over on the other side.
But you're saying maybe they do.
Maybe.
I mean, again, all we can really go by, scientifically speaking, is just the evidence.
And, you know, your faith and your idea about what happens is one thing, but all I know is that we I have a great deal of evidence that personalities, if you will, can live on of an evil nature and continue to do negative things to the living.
Wow.
Yeah.
And, of course, they're never going to get caught.
That's some kind of concept to consider, that evil in life can continue in the afterlife.
Holy mackerel.
I had never even thought about that.
I know that you use, or that paranormal investigators use certain tools in trying to prove scientifically, you know, cameras, magnetometers, I don't know what all you use.
I know you record temperatures and that sort of thing.
What do you use when you go on an investigation?
Okay, well of course the tools we use vary a lot depending upon the subject matter.
But generally speaking, when you are researching the unknown, any tool that gives you more information about the environment is valuable because, again, you don't know exactly what you're researching.
And so some of the basic tools that we use are, as you mentioned, electromagnetic field meters, electrostatic field meters, devices which will pick up excessive infrared.
We do infrared and ultraviolet photography.
We do 3D videography and still photography.
We use Geiger counters and survey meters, remote temperature gauges.
We also are fairly experimental.
We have some electrostatic generators that we incorporate in some of our ghost research as well.
Oh, that's getting active, huh?
Yes.
In other words, producing a charge.
That's correct.
Okay, I don't know where to start.
With the instruments you use, that are used to detect things, what have you detected in investigations?
What have you found?
What do you more frequently than not find?
Well, most frequently we do find very erratic, spontaneous bursts of electromagnetic energy.
And of course, that's commonly described in conjunction with paranormal events, especially ghostly events.
And that's one of the first things that we do look for, any sort of an anomalous field.
And aside from that, the typical things that we find really vary a lot, again, depending on what we're researching.
But we are very active in researching the infrared environment.
All right, let's do one at a time.
With regard to magnetic measurements, what is the biggest deviation from the norm that you've seen?
Double?
Triple?
A hundred percent?
More?
Three hundred percent?
More?
Five hundred?
How big an increase in magnetic effect do you see at the height of one of these things?
Well, generally, we look at fields which are maybe one to ten milligauss, and your TV produces maybe around five to Alright.
And we look at fluctuations in that range.
Now on the other hand, we have been to some locations which are so active that we've gotten huge fluctuations up to around 40 or 50 milligrams and we have not been able to find any conventional explanation for what could cause a field of that size.
I mean the first thing we do is we try to rule out appliances or wiring or anything which could cause an artificial field.
And after we've done that, we're stuck with what we have.
These unexplainable fluctuating masses which sometimes will enter a room through one wall and move around for a while and then exit through another wall.
So, what the heck is that?
How frequently do you observe visual phenomena associated with this sort of thing?
And is there a relationship to the amount of magnetic deviation and whether or not you see a visual?
Yes.
Generally, if a visual is seen, there is certainly a magnetic or electromagnetic deviation.
Now, as far as the frequency, you know, I've been doing the paranormal research for quite a while.
I've been to between 500 and 1,000 haunted houses, and all that time, I have only seen what I might call a ghost one time.
One time.
One time.
And now I've seen other strange things that I couldn't explain.
You know, I've seen objects which have been manipulated and even captured them on videotape being manipulated without any physical explanation and things of that nature.
Manipulated in what manner?
Well, I've seen objects fly off walls.
The best piece of footage that we have with regard to that is we have a clip taken in
a haunted house which has one of our field meters, a very sensitive meter, sitting on
a chair.
And the cameraman, Brian Irish, he's the vice president of our team, he was videotaping
in the room and all of a sudden the meter gets this huge reading.
It has an audio tone.
And so it just starts squealing.
And he turns the camera on the meter and right after it gets this enormous burst of energy
you can see clearly on the videotapes that the meter is physically knocked forward and
then knocked up on its side.
Wow, really?
Now that piece of footage is very important for at least two reasons.
Number one, out of all the objects which could have been manipulated, it was the meter which showed us what kind of energy, at least in part, was affecting it at the time.
Sure.
And secondly, the fact that it fell forward and then up on its side.
Now we have taken that meter and tried and tried and tried to use one line of force from any angle at any degree of strength and make that meter fall forward and then up on the side and considering that as two perpendicular lines of force we have never once succeeded in creating that effect.
I'm not surprised.
So yes, that is another piece of footage that we have.
In fact, we've never even released that one in any form, so that's something you might want to take a look at yourself.
I might want to take a look at it.
You have got to get some of this stuff to me.
Right, I'll certainly do it.
You guys have just been keeping this stuff to yourself, huh?
Pretty much, yes.
We have an archive.
We do segments here and there for TV, especially around Halloween.
There's always an interest in paranormal research.
You know, some of our footage, just like the Brown Mountain footage, we were the first team to capture footage of the Brown Mountain Lights, to our knowledge, in history.
And, you know, we have a work ethic.
We're very determined when we get on the scene that if something is happening, by golly, we want to document it, you know?
Sure.
And so, we've been very successful in obtaining video footage of a lot of this anomalous phenomena.
And indeed, there's a good portion of it which It's sitting in archives either because we've never taken the time or put forth the effort to try to give it to the world, or because we can't, because some of the material we have is sensitive because it features, say, an individual who doesn't want his or her face to be exposed.
Actually, I would expect that more times than not, frankly.
Yeah, we encounter that very frequently, and if I could ever really release everything that we have to the world, You would be amazed at how much we've captured, but again, we have a lot to consider legally.
Of course.
You've got to actually get releases from people, that sort of thing.
Right.
You mentioned that lately you've been using sort of an offensive, I don't want to say weapon, offensive device.
And I wonder what sort of reaction you've had.
I'd be very hesitant in a situation like that to let loose an electrostatic charge, because who knows what might affect it could have.
Right.
But I guess you were curious, huh?
Oh yes.
We've been researching electrostatics for quite some time, and I'll give you sort of our basis for doing that type of work.
Take, for example, a magnet.
A magnet has these lines of force which emanate from it.
We can't feel them.
We can't see them.
We can't detect them with our naked senses.
But they are there.
But if you put a piece of paper over top of it, and you sprinkle iron filings, well, suddenly you have a physical representation of this field.
You see the lines of force.
They just line right up for you.
Exactly.
So if a ghost is a non-physical entity, one wonders, well, how does it communicate with the physical world?
We theorize they might do this by taking electrostatic charges and using them to manipulate the world by creating a physical representation of themselves similar to the example with the magnet.
All right, hold it right there.
We're at the top of the hour.
Okay.
Lines of magnetism, kind of like the Earth itself has.
Very interesting.
We've been hearing about these migratory problems lately.
With the sun active above us, going crazy actually.
And the people.
The people here on Earth, they've been going kind of crazy too.
we'll be right back music playing
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This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
Well, there's breaking news, folks.
CNN is reporting another suicide bombing, or that the police in Jerusalem have reported another suicide bombing.
We don't have Details beyond that right now.
The Israelis have just about had it.
That whole situation is falling apart very, very rapidly.
All right, stay right there.
My guest is Joshua P. Warren.
He is an expert.
He's a paranormal investigator.
And I really want to hear about this active stuff, generating electrostatic charges in an area where something's going on.
Dicey, I would think at best.
Once again, here is Joshua P. Warren.
Joshua, welcome back.
Thank you.
Okay.
I'm very interested in that.
I don't know that I've heard too many people get active In the area of some sort of anomalous occurrence, you know, where the magnetometers begin jumping, where you might see an electrostatic charge of some type, or even see some sort of apparition, to let go an electrostatic charge at a moment like that would seem to me to be a dicey proposition.
Did you all think about it before you decided to try that?
Well, we certainly considered that we didn't know exactly what would happen.
Right.
But, you know, that's the very nature of experimentation and exploration.
And again, to sort of clarify why we originally started focusing some on that area, is because
that a lot of the ghostly activity which is described, especially when someone has an
encounter with a ghost, with an apparition, is along the lines of hair standing on end,
cold chills, objects being moved without physical means, three-dimensional light forms, and
just about all these things can be created artificially using electrostatic charges.
And so it occurred to us, well, if indeed a ghost is taking electrostatic charges and
using them to manipulate the physical world, maybe we could enhance ghostly activity if
we feed an excessive amount of these charges into an area which is active.
And so we've had, well we've used a number of techniques.
We have one device which pours over 400,000 volts of electricity into the air.
And we can charge it with either protons or electrons or both.
So we have a good deal of control over that.
And we have found that in, I'd say, 50% of cases, when we introduce these charges, it does indeed enhance the activity experience.
Really?
Really.
So we think we're on to something.
Well now, how, when you, as you are releasing this charge, how are you able, with your instruments, to measure any difference or to know something is going on?
I mean, could you give me an example?
Sure, and it is certainly tricky because you have to make sure when you're doing this that you're not contaminating your own readings and so we have to be careful about knowing what to rule out and what the effects are from using this type of equipment.
A good example would be when we were doing an investigation at the house a couple years ago and we had sat around for two or three hours and hadn't experienced anything until for about an hour we introduced hundreds of thousands of Uh, I think it was protons we were using that night into one of the rooms.
And, uh, again, after about an hour of this, um, the first thing we began to notice were, uh, sounds taking place around the property.
The first one was, uh, a drum beat, um, that we started hearing in the background.
Really?
And, uh, the owners had talked about, uh, this property being haunted by Native Americans.
And this, there was a drum beat.
Well, after the electrostatic charges, the drum beat started up.
And, uh, then, After that, someone witnessed an object on a table move, and we did not capture that on video, unfortunately, but we know that that was not the product of the charges we were introducing, because of the nature of the object and how it moved.
And then, later on in the night, another, actually two other people, one was a researcher and one was someone who lived at the location, actually saw a portion of an apparition around the area.
And we were able to get some still photographs that were quite peculiar, but that's just an example of how it would enhance activity in some cases.
Drums, you say?
Yes.
All right, drums.
That's really weird.
What does that suggest to you?
I mean, if you can Is that the rough equivalent of electronically tossing chum in the water for sharks?
Or what?
Yes, it is.
We call it ghost bait, as a matter of fact.
Ghost bait?
Yeah.
And of course, the theory that I gave you about this idea that ghosts manipulate charges, that's just one explanation.
It could also be that we're dealing with a situation where the environment, and again, the amount of information the environment might record, is imbalanced, so to speak, because of the extra energy we're introducing.
And if we are already in an area where there's maybe a bit of a time slip, you might say, or where there is more of an inclination for that type of activity to occur that we might tip the balance just enough, atmospherically speaking, in order to create the effect.
Slipping back a little bit, I wonder how you specifically define a ghost.
Now, we covered two types of ghosts, but basically, are ghosts the souls of humans departed the physical life?
Is that a fair, straight-on definition or not?
I think that's a bit limited, actually.
I think of defining a ghost as some aspect of the physical form or mental presence that appears to exist after the destruction of the physical form or the mental presence.
One of the reasons I say that is because you just used the term soul, however, sometimes ghosts of inanimate objects are seen.
A ghost ship, for example, like the Flying Dutchman around the Cape of Good Hope, or It sounds to me as though you really suspect this time slip theory very heavily.
like that so that would suggest that uh... you know ghost or not something that we can restrict to uh...
you know being solely the product of life it sounds to me as though you really suspect this time
slip uh... very heavily in other words what one might imagine
seeing a stagecoach for example uh... out and say the area where i live out here in the
west and
you think you're seeing of ghostly apparition but what you're really
simply saying is some sort of weird twist in in the in the nature of time
All right.
That's correct.
I think that in many cases that is certainly a probable possibility.
Also probable is the following, and I wonder if you have considered it.
I mean, paranormal investigators like yourself are constantly in search Really, of whether there is an afterlife.
That is the big 64 gazillion dollar question, right?
But is it possible, also, that there is no afterlife?
That the only thing that we're observing is some sort of a weird a slip of time, some sort of look into the future or the
past, or even at times other areas of the present, and that there is no afterlife
whatsoever, just the big blackness?
Well the problem with that idea is all these cases where people claim to interact with
a conscious entity, and the interactivity takes it to a whole new level.
It's one thing when you catch a glimpse of something tragic that may have happened in
the past, but it's another thing when an apparition appears to you and communicates with you,
and of course that, I don't know of any other way to explain that other than being a purely
subjective experience or being a...
You know, some sort of evidence for an afterlife.
All right.
You said in all the years you've investigated, you did once see an apparition or a ghost or something.
What was it?
And what were the circumstances?
Well, I was in the attic of a haunted house, a very fitting place.
Of course.
And with another researcher, we'd been up there for about five minutes, I guess, and hadn't seen anything.
And I was actually heading back down the steps out of the attic to go to another location.
And all of a sudden, the other researcher, a fellow named Rob Carmack, said,
Josh, look.
And I looked up, and there was about maybe four feet between Rob and myself.
And right between us, so close we could actually reach out and touch it,
there was a blue-gray mist that was swirling in the air.
And it was contained, so to speak, within a patch of maybe 2 and 1⁄2 feet.
And for a moment, we just stood there in awe.
I mean, you'd think that immediately when something like that would happen that we would jump and grab our meters, but I mean, for a moment, we were just trying to process what we were looking at, and then finally it occurred to me, well, I need to take a picture, you know?
So I scrambled around with my digital camera and actually was able to photograph this misty form.
About two or three seconds before it just disappeared.
You got a photograph of it?
I sure did.
And I'll tell you one of the strangest things about that photograph.
And I was disappointed that I wasn't able to take a picture when it was in its fullest form.
Again, I got it just two or three seconds before it disappeared.
Right.
But the strangest thing about the picture is that aside from being able to still faintly see the mist, two or three orbs developed in the picture.
So, you know, again, all we saw was the mist, but the digital camera interpreted at least some aspect of this mist as orbs, and so... Okay, that brings me to something else.
I had a police sergeant, a New York police sergeant, still an active police sergeant, on shortly after the 9-1-1 disaster, and he, of course, because of who he was, had access to the Ground Zero area.
And he had been down taking photographs of the Ground Zero area, and oh my God, Joshua, I'm telling you, I've got photographs from this police sergeant just, uh, they were up on the website, in fact, full of thousands of orbs.
Just orbs everywhere, and, uh, as a matter of fact, we've been getting so many orb photographs, we've started an orb photograph collection on my website.
What do you think these orbs represent?
Well, first off, I think I should say that, you know, orb-like images can be created by dust and the moisture and, you know, specks on the lens and things like that, so you have to have a careful eye to rule those things out first.
Once you have done that, these other orbs, as we call them, which are left over, and they're most compelling when caught on video, and we can watch the way they move and how they, you know, can illuminate at certain points and do all these amazing things, We have found that these orbs, the legitimate paranormal orbs, are found in high concentrations at areas where ghostly activity is supposed to take place, as opposed to an area where it doesn't.
So we know there is clearly some connection there, there's some association.
However, we don't have any reason at this point to jump the breach to say these are spirits or these are souls.
All I can tell you is that they have some relevance to whatever is taking place at these areas creating this ghostly activity.
And if we wanted to speculate, you could say, well, it's possible that if indeed a ghost is able to manipulate the way it appears or the form in which it travels, it only makes sense that it would take on the form which was most balanced and offered the least resistance to exterior forces.
It's just like a soap bubble.
You blow a soap bubble, it wobbles around a bit, and then it becomes a sphere.
And so if the energy or the form or, in other words, the body of the spirit responds to energy stresses, so to speak, in the same way that a soap bubble might respond to surface tension, it's possible that it's easier for a spirit to travel or manifest itself in an orbicular form.
Are you familiar with electronic voice phenomena?
Yes, sir.
I have a number of guests frequently come on and supply me with totally mind-blowing electronic voice phenomena and you know these are blank tapes and they frequently go to graveyards.
Graveyards being a rich source of this sort of thing and by the way of taking pictures of orbs as well and You know, I am puzzled and somewhat worried.
When I pass away, I don't think I want to be buried.
Not if the prospect is that I hang around a graveyard.
Specifically, my grave.
It's not an inviting prospect.
Any comments on graveyards in general and the proliferation of sightings and electronic voice phenomena and all the rest of it?
Sure.
Well, for one thing, I have done a good amount of research at graveyards and cemeteries, of course, and I have found them to be rather inactive places.
Really?
Yeah.
Contrary to all the tales that you hear and some of the EVP and pictures that do come from them, I've found that there is much less activity at a graveyard than you might find at, say, a shopping mall or something like that, where there are lots of people around bustling and having a good time.
And again, it goes back to the point you were making.
You know, if you died, what would you want to spend your time doing?
Hanging out by yourself in a graveyard for hundreds of years?
Or, you know, being at the mall, seeing what everybody else is up to, you know?
At least the mall.
Right, right.
Listen, you know, again, circling back to the young lady, a very concerned young lady who called in the first hour, and others that I've talked to, who have been attacked in their sleep to the point where Hand marks, bruises are on the body.
I cannot figure out how a non-physical entity, something that is a mist at best or semi-solid at best, is able to manifest itself physically in our world to the degree it can attack somebody sexually or otherwise.
leaving marks. I mean how do they manifest physically? This is our physical world not theirs
and yet they can seem to move within it or affect it.
Well that goes back to the idea regarding the electrostatics and the
spirit's ability to manipulate charges. We use electrostatics and
electromagnetics on a fairly common basis.
For example, I mean, we move around cars and junkyards using electromagnetism.
And so if ghosts have the ability to manipulate electrostatic charges, they could focus them so much that they could create a force as hard as a brick.
As a matter of fact, we have of course some generators here we do experiments with and
we can spray someone down as we call it with an ion wind and it feels just like a physical
touch on your back or your shoulder or wherever we spray this.
In fact, if you didn't know what was happening, you wouldn't know the difference between someone
touching you on the back and the ions from this ion wind.
And so it seems that at least one possible explanation is that these spirits or at least
some spirits are able to focus that electrostatic charge with such an extent that it can make
an impact on the physical world.
And, of course, if you think about something like lightning, for example, I mean, that's really nothing more than electrostatic charge.
It creates a light form.
It makes a noise.
Oh, it's a real, it's a real beaut.
Uh, Joshua, hold on.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
My guest is Joshua P. Warren, a paranormal investigator.
I'm Art Bell.
All this is Coast to Coast AF.
I'm out.
To recharge Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
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It certainly is.
And when something is close to you, when an entity is in the area, It's like something is in the air and you definitely can feel it.
Have you ever felt that?
Your hair standing on end, a sudden cold rush near you?
A lot of people have.
And a lot of people have felt and seen a lot more than that.
Anyway, Joshua is an investigator into this whole sort of thing.
And has been all his life.
We'll get right back to it.
As long as we're on the subject of electromagnetics, I can't let this one go.
Joshua, are you familiar with what an MRI is?
Yes, I am.
Okay.
I've had occasion, because I have a very bad back, of having several unpleasant trips into this cylindrical, horrible, little, claustrophobic, strange machine.
And I began to get reports from MRI operators who really weren't all that interested in being identified, although a couple were, that they had observed all kinds of anomalous things in the MRI room that they wouldn't talk about or didn't really care to talk about, but had seen entities of all sorts.
And I read that on the air and that brought in a rash of MRI technicians admitting they too had seen a lot of anomalous things.
So, the last time I had an MRI, a few months ago now, three or four months ago, I intentionally, in the machine, closed my eyes and tried to become as sensitive as I could as these gigantic electromagnets thumped around me.
It makes quite a noise as it goes.
And I noticed a sort of a bunch of white clouds moving across my vision.
Clearly my brain was being affected in some way by the tremendous electromagnetic force surrounding me.
And all I can say is I've got a lot of emails from people that have given me their names but wouldn't want them used for fear of losing their job.
And they've seen these entities surrounding MRI machines.
Does that surprise you?
No, it doesn't.
In fact, it's ironic that you bring that up because just a couple of months ago, our group was talking with an MRI operator who described the very same thing.
And just like you're saying, this person did not want to be identified either.
Which is the only problem, of course.
But I would love to be able to spend a day experimenting in the MRI room.
But, of course, that also shows you that by your experience, some of these ghostly encounters could also be subjective
experiences because of the human brain being subjective, too.
Well, they could be, or it could be that the electromagnetism opens a world for you to see that you would not see otherwise.
It could be either.
Right.
I believe that whenever you have an extremely strong electromagnetic field, it certainly influences this sort of activity in one way or another and
in some cases it can actually deter the activity perhaps
Um, I speak with many psychics and many psychics claim to be able to go into homes detect
the presence of some sort of entity that needs to be released or
exorcised or whatever and psychics claim they are really effective in
in helping out in these situations. In all the years you've been doing this what kind of experience have you had with
psychics?
Well, I have indeed incorporated psychics for some research just to see how effective that technique was and
The first problem that comes to mind is when you're using a psychic, you're using one unexplained phenomenon to try to explain another unexplained phenomenon, and in the end that doesn't make sense.
But aside from that, I think that most people who claim to have some sort of psychic ability exaggerate that ability or are outright frauds, most people.
Because most psychic activity seems to be inconsistent at best, and anyone who says they can control it at will is certainly a bit suspect.
But aside from that, those people who do have some genuine ability are really invaluable because at a haunted location, those people could be capable of giving us information that we could never glean from a meter.
Have you seen that occur?
In other words, have you had a psychic present who has said something like, Look, you want to head into such-and-such a room right now.
Something as specific as that.
Yes, and in fact, I have had psychics give me information that was even more specific about the name of an apparition and something that was researched later and could be confirmed.
Oh, really?
And that's the kind of thing where, again, a psychic can be most valuable because, sure, a meter can tell you if a field is present and all that sort of business, but it can't tell you what is the personality of this being a male or female.
You know, what is the name?
These are things that can only be gleaned at this point in time using a human perception
of the situation.
During any of your investigations, during any of the things that have occurred, have
you ever been virtually scared stiff?
I have certainly been startled on many occasions, but I would not say that I've ever been just
terrified.
I've never felt threatened necessarily by the activity.
I have viewed activity which seems sort of violent and aggressive and explosive.
Earlier I was mentioning seeing objects come off of walls.
In particular, when I was looking right at a little decorative dove that just exploded off of a wall.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
I mean, it didn't fall.
It exploded in this large arc and hit the floor.
It was amazing, the burst, the aggressive, violent burst of energy which was released.
It was something that I myself could physically feel when this thing came off the wall.
Indeed, sometimes I have seen things like that, which at very least startle me, but I've never felt like any presence has been physically aggressive toward me.
Sometimes I felt certainly drained and exhausted.
But not clearly malevolent?
Not toward me.
I've had people with me who have felt a very negative sensation and said, I've got to get out of here.
And then proceeded very quickly to do that because they themselves felt something so malevolent there or people who claimed to have been attacked and that sort of thing.
Well, I personally have never experienced any ghostly activity that I feel like is even directed at me.
Well, maybe none of it is malevolent.
Maybe it's just the normal human reaction to the unknown.
I mean, we do fear the unknown, right?
That's correct.
And so we might automatically assume, oh God, that's scary.
Oh God, that's bad, right?
That's right.
And I think that's also often the case when it comes to people who say something like, oh, I've had a demonic encounter.
Uh, what someone else might call a demonic encounter, you and I might call, uh, you know, a ghostly encounter.
Uh, just like this object exploding off a wall.
I know people who would say, well, this was, you know, something demonic you were witnessing, but again, I don't see where you make that distinction.
Well, I might not in that case, but in the case of, uh, a young lady who claims she's raped and comes up with hand marks, uh, black and blue hand marks on her thighs and her arms, there, uh, I don't know what else you conclude.
Well, we'll look at people, individuals in life who go and do that.
We don't consider them demons.
Obviously, there are certain opinions as to whether or not these people are being influenced on some realm, but basically, if individuals are capable of doing such horrendous acts in life, I think it's certainly possible they could continue in some cases to do them in the afterlife.
Bad to the bone over here and no bones over there, but still bad.
Yeah, that's right.
How old are you now?
I'm 25.
25?
Yeah.
So you're well over a decade.
That's correct.
into this experience.
Will you keep going?
What line, what direction do you expect your investigation to take?
You've got a lot of years ahead of you.
That's true, and I have such an insatiable curiosity and hunger to learn as much as possible
about this experience we're having.
I'm not sure specifically where I'll be led, but I know that I'm always driven by that
great question, what happens to us after we die, and all the implications that question
Biggest question there is.
That's right.
And so I think that, you know, of all the things I investigate, probably the ghostly manifestations will certainly take precedence over most of the activity.
How convinced, with the research that you've done thus far, are you that in fact consciousness survives physical death?
I personally feel convinced of that because I have been in situations where I feel like, via the equipment, I have had an interaction with a conscious entity.
For example, I was in a house one time where someone who was rather close to me committed suicide.
Obviously, it was a peculiar position for myself to be in the ghost investigator, so I was invited to go into the home of this person.
Only a couple days after the incident had taken place and at one point I had a field meter set up on a table and I was asking questions out into the air and after some questions there was a distinct jump on the scale of the meter and after a while I began to realize that there was some form of primitive communication going on here that I was getting response clearly to some questions whereas not a response to others.
Did you try to I enlarge on that.
Once you realized you were getting a response, did you, I mean, after all, people have communicated
by squeezing a hand once for yes and two for no or blinking their eyes if they're incapable
of doing anything else.
So along those lines, did you try to actually get communication going?
I did, and I'll tell you the strangest thing about that experience is that any time I would
ask a question that would give me any information about what is on the other side.
Right.
What are you experiencing?
There would be no response.
Really?
The only response would come from, uh, questions or issues which were involving those who are left behind.
Well, one reason you could be getting those responses might be that to the entity, uh, there is no difference on the other side.
Well, that's true.
That's the only reason I can think you would, if you were in fact in communication, that's the only reason I can think you would get no response indicating what's it like.
Well, it's not any different than it is for you sitting right there, so what could you respond with?
That's a good point.
Either that or for some reason this entity does not want me to know.
Have you ever had any communication from any entity Or anything that you trust that does give you an indication of the nature of the other side?
No, I can't say that I really clearly have.
I mean, that's the unfortunate thing about approaching this from a scientific perspective.
At this point, sure, we have lots of great technology, but our technology is extremely crude compared to some of the things that we are trying to document.
And so, you know, there are Lots of people who have had experiences that they have passed on to me, and if those people were telling the truth, and if those people were accurately perceiving what they thought they were perceiving, then I can gather information from that.
But based upon what I personally have seen, the instrumentation that I've used, I can't say that I have gained any more knowledge about what happens on the other side than you or anybody else might have, really.
It's still a great mystery.
If science could, in fact, prove that we survive death, that our consciousness survives death, do you think that would be a good thing, and how do you think it would change the world?
I think it ultimately would be a very good thing, because we gauge how we apply meaning in this life to this concept of an afterlife.
We prioritize our lives based upon the idea of an afterlife.
In fact, most religions are based upon this idea of an afterlife.
Generally speaking, religions determine morals and morals determine laws, so we live our
lives in a very pragmatic way based upon this concept that there are consequences for our
actions and that life and certain things in life carry far more meaning than what we see
around us.
I do believe that if we had that eventual proof that there was something there, it would
be positive for people who are willing to accept that evidence and for people who are
therefore willing to take more consideration with how they live this life.
Now consider the other side.
Suppose science finally concluded that there absolutely is no afterlife.
Therefore, no consequences for earthly actions.
Now, how would that change the world?
Or is that what we're living out right now?
Well, really, yeah, I think it probably is a lot closer to how we view the world right now.
I mean, there's sort of this attitude of, you know, if I can get away with this, then it's okay.
And, you know, that's one of the things about this idea of an afterlife.
Sure, you might be able to fool your fellow humans here, but someone or something is observing and you will pay a price or get what you deserve.
Whatever the case, at some point.
And so, I think that either way there would be pros and cons.
If we did prove there was life after death, then that would also carry with it some facts about how that life proceeds, and that would probably disrupt a lot of religious concepts.
Yes.
At the same time, if there was proof that there is no such thing as life after death, and really I'm not even sure how you would prove that.
I'm not sure if it would be I do think there are consequences for actions, and this may seem pretty far out to you, but I remember reacting really strongly when the Taliban some months ago blew up the two gigantic Buddhas.
Do you remember that?
Yes.
And just look what's happened.
Yeah, there you go.
Well, really, you can look at ideas of consequence in many ways, but basically it boils down to, for every action there's an opposite but equal reaction.
That's how we view it scientifically.
You can also call that karma.
If you're a Christian, you can say, well, Jesus says you reap what you sow.
But it boils down to the same concept.
For every action, there's an opposite but equal reaction, and I think that ultimately, somehow, that applies to all aspects of the universe, including how we behave.
Are you a Christian?
I don't claim to be a Christian.
I do believe in God, or an intelligent source of creation, but I certainly do believe in the teachings of Christ, but I would not say that I I would call myself necessarily a Christian, because really I don't believe that Christ was a Christian, or that Buddha was a Buddhist, or Confucius was of his particular religion.
I believe that religion is something which was developed by humans who came after those people and interpreted their teachings, and so I feel very uncomfortable about You know, labeling the way that I feel or labeling the teachings of these great people, because again, it really boils down to multiple or collective interpretation and not necessarily so much what this individual actually said.
So I don't label myself religiously speaking, but again, I do believe in the teachings of Christ and I do believe in God.
You and I have very close belief systems.
That's very interesting.
Do you think that makes it easier?
If you were a devout Christian, you really could not be a paranormal investigator, could you?
I believe that's correct.
I think that, you know, I am an explorer, and I come into an area or an investigation with a mindset of, you know, I don't know what's happening here.
I'm not out to prove or disprove Anything for my own purposes, so to speak.
Ultimately, I just want to know the truth.
I don't have a hidden agenda.
Whenever there is a mystery out there, you always run into these people who are promoting a particular explanation, yet they have no evidence for that explanation in many cases.
I always wonder why people feel so adamant about promoting an explanation.
Why can't they just accept that there is no explanation?
Why do they have to always apply this false sense of meaning to things?
Our brain demands that.
Right.
That's why.
Alright, would you be willing to stick around and take some phone calls?
Certainly.
Good.
That's exactly what we'll do then in the hour coming up.
Joshua P. Warren is my guest.
And we're talking about the other side.
Paranormal.
I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
Good morning.
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the world
Once again, here is Joshua P. Warren.
Welcome back, Joshua.
And I said we would take phone calls.
A lot of people want to talk to you, as you might imagine.
And they're all lined up, so if you're willing, away we go.
By the way, is there anything You have that you would like to promote.
I mean, God knows you've got videos and pictures, which I'm dying for and I'm waiting for.
But, you know, have you written a book?
Do you have any publication, newsletter, anything you would like to promote on the air?
Certainly.
Well, of course, aside from just the website, which you have on your site.
We've got a link, right?
One of the big things that's coming up is I am actually producing and hosting the first annual Paranormal Weekend.
at the Grove Park Inn Resort and Spa here in Asheville.
And that will be next month actually, it's January 11th through the 13th, and it will be three days
of workshops and seminars about photographing ghosts, audio recording, detecting energy fields,
and every night we're going to go out and ghost hunt in these creepy old mansions.
Oh, that sounds like so much fun. It's going to be a great time
And unfortunately, it is almost sold out, being next month.
There are only a few reservations left, but if any of your listeners would like to attend, it's going to be an unforgettable experience, and of course the first of many to come.
They can go to paranormalweekend.com, and there is a link on your website to that page as well.
To find out more information and to attempt to get some reservations if there are any still left.
So the Paranormal Weekend is going to be a big one, and then in 2003, looking down the road, Simon & Schuster is publishing a ghost research book that I wrote.
It's called simply, How to Hunt Ghosts, and it's exactly what you would imagine it to be.
It's a beginner's guide to ghost hunting, and of course that will be released in the fall of 2003.
Well, congratulations on that one.
Well, thank you so much.
It's certainly an honor.
And then, of course, on the website you'll find links to all the other wild stuff I'm involved with and hopefully a little bit of interest to everyone.
How many people might you take on this paranormal weekend?
Well, we are right now wanting to cut it off at 150 people because we have a very large property and we want to spread these folks out And have as small a group as possible.
You know, no more than just a handful of people.
So they'll have an intimate investigation experience every night.
And I have so many surprises in store.
I've been planning this for a long time and no thought or planning has been spared.
We're going to have, well you know, an Aura camera there actually.
One of these you may be familiar with.
A special type of technology which some people claim can actually Photograph your aura.
We're going to have one available for the guests to experiment with.
We're going to have, well, there will be psychics available, if indeed that's of interest to guests.
We're going to be selling some ghost research equipment.
So it's really going to be just the best place to have a hands-on experience if you want to really learn how to do paranormal research yourself.
It's going to be an educational and entertaining time, so I'm really looking forward to it.
Boy, I wish I had the time.
I could come visit my mom and have a paranormal weekend at the same time.
All right, here we go.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Joshua P. Warren.
Hi.
Hello.
Hello.
Mr. Warren, Mr. Bell, an absolute pleasure to speak to you.
Thank you.
Where are you?
New York.
New York.
As in the city?
Long Island.
Long Island.
Okay.
I've been working the piles at the World Trade Center for about 13 weeks from day one.
I've got some information for you.
I've got to tell you, first off, everything I'm about to say, I believe, was my own conscience talking.
I can't tell the difference.
When it first happened, you couldn't even hear yourself think.
But I'd say about four or five days into it, you were saying to yourself what you would be saying if you were them.
Them?
You were hearing stuff.
I was hearing stuff.
I know the guy I was with was hearing stuff.
Were we listening to our subconscious?
Were we hearing stuff?
We don't know.
When you say them, you mean those who perished in it?
Yeah, that was in the forefront of the thought.
That's what everyone was thinking.
That's all that we were thinking about.
Where are they?
Can we hear them?
I can picture thousands of people trying to tune in to find them, exploring the voids and stuff.
My question is, how do you determine what is your mind talking as opposed to an external spirit?
That's a very good question.
Yeah, that is a good question and that's one of the biggest obstacles that we deal with is separating the subjective from the objective when it comes to experiences.
About the only way that you can reliably make sure that the voices that you are hearing are external is by documenting them on a digital or audio, you know, analog audio recording.
If you can't record them externally, Then there's really no way to prove that what you're experiencing isn't just something within your own mind.
That doesn't mean that it doesn't have any legitimacy as being a ghostly experience, but I would say that recording it externally is the only way you could prove that.
I wonder what your fancy-schmancy equipment would be doing if it was down there?
Oh, well, there's no telling.
As a matter of fact, I was speaking with an editor who lives in New York not too long And she was telling me about an author who lives in the area around Ground Zero.
And this author claims that since the incident took place that she herself has seen at least four or five apparitions of people in business suits wandering around looking very confused.
Boy, it sure wouldn't surprise me, caller.
Thank you.
It wouldn't surprise me a bit.
I mean, after all, if there is anything to this, And if there is anything to the fact that a spirit may well be confused and sort of in a transition period, especially when it just instantly dies unexpectedly, then surely in that area you would expect there to be a lot of inexplicable things going on, wouldn't you?
Yes, absolutely.
And I'm sure at some point I will probably investigate that area.
I would want to certainly wait until it was a less sensitive subject than it is right now, but just like battlefields.
Yes, but a battlefield, even though I understand it would be very likely a haunted place, if you're in battle, you have some expectation, I suppose, of getting killed.
Right.
Of dying.
Right.
But in those buildings, I believe that the majority of the people were being told, don't Uh, the building is safe and all the rest of it, and then all of a sudden, kaboom.
Right.
They were dead instantly, and so it would be even more psychically shocking, I suppose, as you ended up on the other end.
Okay, Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Joshua Warren.
Hi.
Hello.
Hello.
Yes, hello, dear.
You're on the air.
Where are you?
Baltimore, Maryland.
Baltimore, okay.
I definitely believe in the paranormal and ghosts, etc.
I understand their purpose on Earth.
I was just curious to know, do they have any effect on the atmosphere and the weather?
Because it's ridiculous that it's like 70 degrees in Baltimore in December.
Well, my answer would be, I think that there's an effect on the weather, alright?
I don't think it's coming from paranormal sources.
I'm afraid it's coming, depending on your belief system, either from A cyclical, repetitive change in the world's weather, or perhaps with some help from the hand of man.
But you're welcome to comment, Joshua, if you think you know anything about that.
Sure.
I can't say that I know anything about entities necessarily affecting the weather and the atmosphere, but I can say that we've found that certain atmospheric conditions are more conducive to having a ghostly experience.
Oh, really?
Like what?
Well, particularly when you have cold, dry conditions, and going back to static electricity, whenever static electricity is most active, that seems to be a prime time to have a ghostly encounter.
Well, I live in a place where we have, you know, here in the desert, Where of course now it's cold and it's always very dry here and we have so much static electricity that anybody who plays with electronics is constantly killing things with it.
So that's how much we have.
So you would expect then this desert area to be quite haunted?
That's true.
If it's not simply haunted then at least the spirits which are there should have a better ability to manifest.
To manifest, yes.
That's really interesting.
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Joshua Warren.
Hi.
Hello?
Hello.
Hi.
Yes, sir.
Go ahead.
My name is Clayton.
I'm from South Jersey.
I wanted to say hi to Joshua and also Mr. Bell.
How are you doing?
Fine.
I kind of believe the guy that was just talking about the Trey Towers, because I don't know what is a ghost and what is an affectation of my own mind, or if it's something that I'm pressing or stress or whatever.
But my question is in reference to shapeshifters.
Back in December, I had a situation where they were very real.
There was a lot of them and I could see them.
I didn't allow them into my room.
But what happened is they were outside and they were all over the place.
There was like about 20 or 30 of them.
And then I was able to see them in my room with a mirror.
Why do you call them shape shifters?
Because they were human form.
I couldn't hear their larynx.
I couldn't hear their voice.
but I could see them and they kept on, it would look like I'd stare at it again
and turn around without using the mirror and it would just be like a pile of clothes or something.
And then I started to find that I did not understand what was going on, but I could talk to them.
The audio was very low.
It was very hard to hear them, but I found that I could communicate with them
and I was asking them all the same kind of questions like, are you all dead?
You know, like what happens?
Where are you coming from?
Why are you bothering me?
And this lasted for three days.
And then I finally passed.
I was not drinking and I don't do drugs.
And what happens when I saw this, then the next day I woke up and I said, ah, it was just something that happened.
They were still there, but they were in all different kinds of forms because I work as an artist.
I do abstract and I do computer art and stuff.
And what happens, they look, they were talking to me.
I could see their lips moving.
And then I started finding that there were pictures that I had of something like Carlos Santana, Joni Mitchell.
They were just pictures of people and stuff like that.
And they were all there, too.
Then I started finding that they came from a place called V-Land.
Now, the reason I named it that was because it sounded like there were car tires with chains on them, snow tires.
Anyway, to make it short, I ended up in a hospital from that, a medical hospital, not a nuthouse.
And what had happened is that they said I should be dead because I had absolutely no
electrolytes, I had no magnesium, potassium, and I was eating.
I mean I wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary for me.
And I was in intravenous for like six days, but then I came back out of the hospital and
They were still there.
They lasted for another three days.
I was prepared to say, well obviously you were hallucinating because of the condition you just described, but you say they were there when you came back.
I came back after five days of being in the hospital, and then they were still there, and the sounds were still there.
I appreciate your call, sir.
everything was forming all right they were trying to keep like a look at a
tree a pine tree and they would start pointing in the direction I had to go so
then I ended up going to the hospital what I ended up doing I appreciate your
call sir you know there are a lot of people Joshua who would say well there
is somebody who's just crazy but I don't know I can't say that.
I've heard too much on these airwaves over the years to be able to say that.
I hear so many stories like that, and I'm sure you do too, and I don't know what you make of them.
Well, I think you just really have to come to a point where you say to yourself, there are certain things that you just have to take for what they are, and there's no way that you can go and try to confirm Whether or not a lot of these experiences are true based on scientific means, but that doesn't mean that they are not.
But instead of just immediately ruling out everything that you can't run and prove, it's something you should take into consideration.
Do you believe that sightings of entities, encounters with paranormal experiences of varying sorts, is on the East increase generally?
Well, you know, I wouldn't necessarily say that I believe it's on the increase, but I do believe that the amount of documentation is increasing, and therefore the belief is increasing based upon that, if nothing else.
So I don't necessarily know that we're experiencing more activity, aside from the fact that, you know, obviously every year that goes by, more and more people are dying, so you have more and more entities to deal with.
But aside from that aspect, I think that a lot of it has to do with the fact that, you know, we are for the first time, you know, in a position to purchase equipment at a consumer level, which allows us to see into realms which before we could never detect.
And a good example is the night shot technology on the Sony Handycam.
Oh yes, I have one.
Yeah, fantastic stuff.
And so because of simple innovations like that, Because of the advancements from computer technology, we're able to really start detecting these subtle realms and subtle aspects of our environment for the first time.
And I think that what you're seeing is sort of a collective increase in open-mindedness because people are seeing objective documentation for these things they cannot explain.
Are you familiar with an organization known as NIDS?
No, I don't believe so.
National Institute for Discovery Science.
It's funded by a very wealthy man out here in Las Vegas.
I've heard of it, yes.
And they've done a lot of infrared research.
They have a ranch that they purchased where a lot of paranormal type things were going on.
And they witnessed with infrared equipment and night vision They witnessed a portal opening.
Now, I'm talking about legitimate scientists who are out doing the kind of research you do.
And they witnessed a portal opening.
And a creature coming through it.
And then the portal closing again.
And that was just one of the paranormal things they documented at this ranch out here.
Actually, we don't identify specifically where the ranch is.
I'm Art Bell.
And we'll continue with Joshua Warren in just a moment.
from the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM.
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Leonard, welcome to the program.
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Hi.
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We have such a short time that I feel obligated to literally pummel you with questions.
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This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
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Hi, everybody.
We're talking about things paranormal with somebody who investigates exactly that, Joshua P. Warren.
I'm Art Bell, and if you'll stay right there, we'll continue with your calls.
Once again.
Joshua P. Warren.
Joshua, welcome back.
Lots of folks want to talk to you on the first time caller line.
You're on the air with Joshua Warren.
Hi.
Yes, hello.
Hello, sir.
Go ahead.
Yes, my name is Eric.
I'm calling from Redding, California.
Okay.
And I had a story a couple of years ago.
I was going to a yard sale and it was next to a house that in the 80s a man had killed a woman, chopped her up and put her in a bag.
Anyway, I was talking, this yard sale was right next door to this house, and I was talking to these people and telling them how I like to, you know, dig up old whiskey bottles and things like that, and the guy there that lives at the house now said, oh, you'd be surprised what I'm finding in my yard.
So the story goes a little bit further, and he says, I'm finding strange things in my yard, and then he says, well, my wife's a nurse, and we found a human bone in our yard.
Oh.
He took me over to his house, he showed me to the backyard, and he showed me this pile of rocks by these bushes, and he says, oh, you know, my wife's very sensitive about things and refuses to go anywhere near this pile of rocks.
And he took me up to the third story of this old house, and he said, my son, my little boy comes downstairs, terrified, in the middle of the night, refuses to tell me or my wife what's frightening him.
Then he took me to the front planter there in front of the house, and he showed me a bone.
And I said, well, you know, back in the 80s, there was a lot of murders around here, and I think you should turn this in.
Well, he told me, well, I'm deathly afraid of my property values going down to nothing.
So of course, I contacted the police department, the sheriff's department, and to no avail.
And what do you mean to no avail?
I would think human remains would be of high interest.
Well, I certainly would too.
And the best thing I got out of him was to, well, you know, I'm going to just go back and get that bone.
He said, one of the sheriffs said, no, no, you know, you don't want ramifications if you, you know, you have a human bone, blah, blah, blah.
That was my point.
So if you're telling him that someone has a human bone, you would think, oh well.
Well, absolutely, absolutely.
And you know, at the same time, what's very strange about this is several blocks away was the Redding Dump.
And around that same time, in the middle of the 80s, they were finding human bones in the dump.
It was in the newspaper.
And this guy is just deathly afraid.
If they start digging bodies out of his yard, his property value will go next to nothing.
Well, that's probably a good bet.
How does all of this relate to the paranormal?
Believe it or not, something followed me from that house.
Oh.
And, uh... Oh.
And you're gasped, you know... This was evil.
You knew it was evil.
It was a presence.
It was, uh... It was terrifying.
It was affecting me.
It was affecting my family.
May I ask you a question?
How do you know it was... How do you, in your mind, separate Your fear, and of course you would be fearful, anybody would be, sensing this around you.
How do you delineate between that and knowing it's evil?
Well, it affected myself that I was having thoughts that I would never have in a million years.
It was affecting my family.
What kind of thoughts?
You mean like homicidal thoughts?
Well, not so much that, just evil thoughts.
Perhaps not homicidal, yes.
But one night, I could feel this presence right next to me, and I'm watching a television show where a television pastor is talking about how to get rid of these kinds of things.
I'm praying to Christ, and he called it fleeting the blood of the Lamb.
It was the strangest thing.
It was late at night, and the wind was very calm.
And as I'm praying, the wind outside came up.
It must have been 60, 70 miles.
It just started howling.
And whatever this was, I felt that something bigger, something stronger came and told it to go away.
All right.
Well there, Joshua, is a typical religious testimony.
Pretty typical.
And I've always wondered, and I don't mean to be I don't want to blast me in any way, but I wonder if it's the human will, using the name of God, that drives these things away, or seems to have effect on them, or if it's actually the name of God or Jesus that does the trick, I've often wondered.
And I told my audience sometime, next time you're affected by something like this, try saying, be gone in the name of Talk Host Art Bell.
Well, some lady tried that and it didn't work out real well for her at all.
You have any thoughts on that?
Well, you know, I hear lots of people who relate similar experiences where they have said the name of God or something along those lines and that ends the activity.
There are a lot more cases where that does not happen.
And really, I think there's another ghost researcher who makes a good point I saw a while back on his website.
He said, look, you know, when somebody's trying to mug you, if you yell the name of God, it's probably not going to stop them, so why should that make a difference to spirits?
And so, I don't necessarily know how one wants to, you know, play that concept into this idea, but basically I think that, obviously, no one can really say for sure.
I tend to agree with that.
If literally God or some force like that is coming down and listening and clearing this,
or if as you said, it's more of the will of the person.
I tend to believe that it's the will of the person simply because I hear people from different
religions who have accomplished this.
Well, I tend to agree with that.
Lately, we've been working with the Global Consciousness Project, or certainly talking
about it.
Have you followed that at all on the show, Joshua?
No, I sure haven't.
It's a lot to explain then.
But there appears to be an effect on random number generators that have been set up to
monitor.
Some sort of global human reaction to large events like 9-1-1 or like, you know, other big events that have occurred, assassinations, that sort of thing.
And they notice these incredible spikes, and they can put them on graphs, that these random number of computers are suddenly non-random as these events occur, indicating there's some sort of greater global consciousness.
Yeah, I tend to think that everything is related in some form.
Precisely, exactly.
And how about all of these studies that when people are prayed for, they recover at two or three times the rate of those who are not prayed for.
Now, I asked my guest the other night, Dean Radin, would it be his view that if you took a whole bunch of atheists and had them concentrate as hard as they could on making
someone well and and and used a and had another group of uh... a
religious folks who did the same thing would the results be equal his
thought was they would uh... well i don't know about that because
i think that people who are religious they do have a strong belief
the unseen possibilities and you can call that the work of God or whatever you wish.
But the power of the mind may not demand faith, belief.
Yeah, that's correct.
But it seems like the people who have faith might be able to take for granted the power and therefore it flows easier for them.
Might be easier for them, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Alright, Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Joshua P. Warren.
Hi.
Hi.
Where are you, sir?
Uh, I'm heading to Michigan on a car phone.
Oh, okay.
Alright, proceed.
Uh, I had a very odd experience, and I mean no offense to your guests, but I do not believe in ghosts or the paranormal.
But I would like to get his opinion on something that happened to me, uh, Sunday night.
My grandfather's been very ill for the past week.
And, uh, actually, that's where I'm heading to his funeral, Thursday.
I, uh, I was getting ready to plug my cell phone in to lay down and go to bed, and I have a picture that's been on my mirror for about five years now that my mother had given me of him and his father.
And for whatever reason, it was not on my mirror Sunday night.
It was sitting right on my dresser top.
Any other explanation for how it could have moved?
None.
I asked my girlfriend, who was in bed, I said, did you look at this picture tonight?
She said, no.
And I said, that's it.
He's going to die tonight.
She said, oh, don't say that.
About 3 o'clock in the morning, my mother called and said that he had passed away.
Well, if you don't believe in the paranormal or any of that sort of thing, then to what do you attribute your belief?
I really have no idea.
The term paranormal really means beyond normal, beyond the realm of the ordinary, and that certainly would qualify as a paranormal experience.
I tend to think that that sort of thing could be described as ghostly as well.
There's a type of ghost which is generally known as a harbinger.
Harbinger is an entity or spirit that brings a message of something which is impending.
Oftentimes it's negative.
Of course, a death would qualify.
It's possible that you were visited by some spirit or entity or presence of some kind
that manipulated that picture as assigned to you.
There's no conventional explanation that would certainly be considered paranormal.
Thank you very much.
Again, like I said, I'm 32 years old, and it's the weirdest thing that's ever happened to me.
My girlfriend said she would have never believed it unless she was there.
Welcome to the world, sir.
Thank you, and take care.
Drive safely.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Joshua P. Warren.
Hi.
Hi.
How are you doing?
Alright, sir.
Where are you?
I'm in Camp City.
Alright.
Um, I have a tale and a question.
Um, I used to work at a casino and they, uh, it shut down.
We had to have a skeleton crew on for legal reasons.
Right.
And, um, security there occasionally picked up on their video cameras a shadow moving about.
Um, it'd show up in photos taken of groups that were doing, uh, schooling and such down there for the place.
And occasionally, every time I got out, well not every, but once in a while when I got out on the second deck, out of the corner of my eye, I'd see something move.
And if I looked in that direction, I'd see a human form kind of fade out and disappear.
Yes.
If I didn't look towards it, I'd just see it walk on out of the room through the corner of my eye.
And it was different.
It was really odd.
And it would follow you around once in a while.
Nothing, it wouldn't do anything, it'd just follow you, and you'd hear extra footsteps, even after you stopped.
Instead of echoing, you'd hear three or four extra footsteps along after you stopped.
And, uh, I was wondering, how close does, uh, ghosts and paranormal fall with, say, Shabbat?
Alright, uh, Joshua, this, uh...
Also, it goes right down the line of something we've discussed on the show a very great deal.
I've had thousands of emails of what people call the shadow people.
Most people see these movements just out of the corner of their eye, a very fast, flickering kind of movement, but you know something just moved.
And you look and there's nothing there.
Now, recently, I've had hundreds of emails from people who have said, well, you know, I'm beginning to actually see these things straight on.
Some people have said, when they've encountered them, the entities, or whatever they are, shadow people, look startled and take off.
They flee.
They're gone.
Like that.
Do you have any reports of anything like this?
Yes, I have.
I've heard a lot about the shadow people.
First of all, let me give you a couple comments on how the eyes work.
I talked to an eye doctor a few years ago who told me that apparently we actually have better vision Uh, in our peripheral vision than we do straight on.
He said there are more nerves or more receptors per nerve.
That's what he said.
Oh really?
And that actually the reason for that is evolutionarily in the past you had to see if a lion or a tiger was sneaking up to eat you.
That's right.
On the sides.
And so even though we stay focused, straightforward, we have apparently better vision on the sides if I was informed correctly.
Oh now that's really, really interesting.
Yeah, and so that could explain why some of these things are seen in the peripheral vision, but are not necessarily seen straight on, just like some stars can be easier seen, or seen more easily by using the sides of the eye.
Secondly, one thing that is a theory I came across a while back, and one thing that I began to notice since then, is several of the people who've told me they've had shadow people experiences within the past year, are people who have DVD players.
And watch a lot of DVDs.
Yes.
And I have come across, again, several theories along the lines that the rate of flicker watching a DVD is very different than watching a regular videotape or broadcast TV.
And it's possible that just like when you turn on a strobe light in a room, which is able to isolate certain types of motions you might not otherwise see, It's possible that the flicker rate of a DVD might influence the eyes, or exercise the eyes, or change the eyes, so that they are in some state where they're able to perceive those types of images.
Oh, you're dead on.
Would it surprise you to know I have heard this exact same theory, even down to the DVD flicker theory?
From about two other people in recent months.
Really?
Yeah.
These creatures, these entities, these shadow people, whatever they are, appear to operate at a higher vibratory level.
And what you have just described would be one way, and it's absolutely remarkable, and I think you're dead right on the money.
Uh, and I think our technology, uh, may be resulting in our seeing more things or seeing things we have not previously known are all around us.
Right.
Okay.
Uh, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Joshua Warren.
Hi.
Hi.
Hello.
How are you?
Okay, ma'am.
Where are you?
I'm in La Jolla, California.
Okay.
Well, I called about an hour ago when you mentioned about MRIs.
Yes.
I have an MRI experience that's pretty amazing.
About a year and a half ago, I had a spinal cord injury and I was paralyzed from the waist down and told that I'll never walk again.
After about two weeks of laying in the hospital, they put me in an MRI to test me.
And while I was in it, they kept me in it for three and a half hours for some reason.
And while I was in it, I felt beings surrounding me.
Yes.
And I heard a voice tell me that I'm going to be okay.
And when they pulled me out, my spinal cord injury had healed and I could walk.
And it was basically a miracle.
The doctors couldn't believe it.
And since that experience, I've had nothing but paranormal experiences constantly.
I see spirits materialize.
What else?
I have psychic dreams and all sorts of strange things happening.
Was it because of the MRI?
That's an incredible story.
I take it you can document all this?
Oh yes, I can.
Joshua?
Well, yeah, like Art said, that is certainly an amazing story.
That could mean, just speculating a couple of things, it could mean that your body is, for whatever reason, extra sensitive to magnetic fields and that when these fields pass through your body, it changed your body in many ways, especially the beneficial way of healing you.
Right.
Or it could mean that, you know, you were placed In a position where, because of these fields, some entities with healing ability had access to you.
Right.
And they influenced your life.
Listen, you two were extremely short on time.
Ma'am, would you please fire me an email with contact information for you?
Sure.
I work for Deepak Chopra in La Jolla.
Okay, alright.
Fire me some email.
I will.
Artbell at MindSpring.com with some contact information.
I will.
Okay, good.
Thank you very much.
And we are, woefully, Joshua, we're out of time.
Program is ending.
Nothing I can do about that.
I really, truly appreciate your being here, and obviously we will have you back again.
Sounds wonderful.
Thank you, Art.
And again, for the Paranormal Weekend that's coming up, how do people contact you?
Well, they can go to paranormalweekend.com, which is the easiest way, and of course there's a link on your website.
Or they can call the Grove Park Inn here in Asheville, North Carolina.
I don't have that number on hand, but it's easy to find.
The Grove Park Inn.
The Grove Park Inn in Asheville, North Carolina, huh?
That's it.
All right, my friend.
Good night.
Good night.
Now there you have it.
From Asheville, North... Haunted Asheville, North Carolina.
Joshua P. Warren.
I'm Art Bell from the high deserts.
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