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Dec. 3, 2001 - Art Bell

02:30:22

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Dr. Nicholas J. Begich - HAARP

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	♪♪ From the high desert at the great American Southwest,
	I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, whatever it may be, wherever you are in all 24 time zones
	covered by this program called Ghost to Ghost AM, I'm Art Bell.
	And tonight, it's hard to know where to begin in the news, there is so much going on.
	In the second hour, Dr. Nick Begich will be here, and I have suspected for some time that... In fact, as a replacement for our guest who came down with a sore throat.
	For some time, I have... I have thought that they were going to use HAARP to try and find Osama Bin Laden.
	That and other warfare techniques.
	And of course, HAARP will be the subject with Dr. Nick Begich next hour.
	First of all, I'd like to welcome another new affiliate.
	KMAX in Colfax, Virginia.
	840 on the dial in Colfax, Virginia.
	And Bob Hauser, hello there.
	General Manager.
	Steve Grubbs, the Program Director.
	Great to have you on board.
	I don't know precisely where Colfax is.
	Somebody, I'm sure, will blast me or email me and let me know.
	Now... Again, it's pretty hard to know where to begin.
	You know about the awful attacks on Israel.
	So we'll discuss that in a moment.
	We'll discuss what is now the latest warning to all Americans.
	Here it comes again.
	Another warning to all Americans, folks.
	Non-specific but credible information that something is going to happen during the holiday season.
	Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge announced the third government alert since the September 11th hijacking, saying the information doesn't point to any specific target or type of attack so that just sort of lets you imagine everything and I guess anything is possible so Americans you have been warned tonight for a third time something's gonna happen or may happen in Israel as you know there have been a number of suicide attacks resulting in
	Many, many injuries and quite a number of deaths and Israel's had it.
	I told you, if you remember Friday's program, I told you that something was cooking.
	I knew it was.
	Something was cooking in Israel.
	There was increased military activity in Israel.
	I knew something was up in Israel and sure enough it broke over the weekend.
	Now they are going to, they're declaring their own War on Terrorism, kind of a brilliant move in a lot of ways.
	Usually, the United States is always trying to get Israel to calm down, to show restraint, and to try and push forward no matter what happens with the peace process.
	This time, two things are different.
	One, we're involved in our own war against terrorism.
	And there is a fierce fight going on, by the way, in southern Afghanistan, in Kandahar, outskirts of Kandahar.
	How many Marines are involved, we're not sure.
	But a fierce fight.
	And while all of this is going on, the Middle East blows up, it's my understanding that they're calling the PLO now a terrorist-aiding organization, Israel is.
	And they've got tanks, apparently, near Arafat headquarters.
	And almost anything can happen in the Middle East.
	Boy, dangerous.
	Talk about dangerous times.
	We are engaged in Afghanistan.
	The Middle East is blowing up.
	And who knows what's going on over in Iraq.
	Apparently, four Afghan factions agreed early Tuesday to get together on some sort of framework for a post-Taliban administration.
	The deal just coming out was after the U.S.
	pressured the Northern Alliance to drop its objections.
	In a night of very what's described as hectic diplomacy, U.S.
	appeals finally persuaded Northern Alliance leaders in Kabul to Release a long-delayed list of candidates for an interim administration, so we're pressing hard, but I said on Friday, and I say again tonight, I wonder if the new boss is going to be any different than the old boss.
	I wonder what these people are really... We don't really know what these factions are about, what they believe in, which one is going to prevail, whether a coalition really even can exist.
	We don't know anything about any of that.
	So what a mess we've got going on in the world right now, huh?
	Our own war in Afghanistan that will probably spread from there, and the Middle East disintegrating very quickly indeed.
	Something to really think about.
	Now, it finally, as I told you it would, was revealed Monday morning what it, or Ginger, is.
	And what it is, is a scooter.
	Inventor Dean Kamen, Quieted months of widespread buzz.
	Actually, you know, the buzz had died down, really, of all about it.
	The buzz had really died down.
	And I think that's why, instead of... I guess you can read the story this way if you want to, but I would not have printed it this way.
	The buzz had died down, and so they finally decided, I think, to announce it, because as much publicity had been milked from it as possible.
	It is a scooter.
	As I told you, I thought a long time ago, it's based on the iBot technology.
	It's a gyro-stabilized scooter.
	And that's all it is.
	Doesn't fly.
	Doesn't defy gravity.
	It does stand up straight, as by the way, you must if you're on this scooter.
	In other words, it's two wheels.
	And that's what the gyros are all about.
	You know, keeping it stable.
	It'll do, what, about 13 miles an hour?
	Like a lot of electric scooters, about 13 miles an hour.
	That's what most of them do.
	And I don't know what the brouhaha is all about.
	It is interesting.
	Without question, it's interesting.
	But you've got to stand up.
	And that would be a major complaint and sticking point for me.
	You've got to stand up.
	It looks like a pretty good personal transportation vehicle.
	As you know, I've thought for a long time that scooters are really the way to go.
	I've got them.
	I've got one called a Buzz and it's, uh, it's awesome.
	Really awesome.
	But it's cool because you get to sit down.
	With, uh, with this, it, you have to stand.
	And they showed it going through water and up little ramps and stuff like that.
	Pretty cool.
	But not anti-gravity.
	And not as cool as a lot of people had formed it up to be in their mind.
	And, again, very much formed up around the iBot.
	Which was our best guess, you'll recall.
	So there you've got it.
	You may have comments on it.
	Were you disappointed in it?
	Will you run out and buy it?
	It, I understand, will be about three grand.
	Beefed up version of it.
	Going to be used by some postal authorities or delivering people, mail delivery people, to deliver the mail.
	That'll cost a whole lot more, actually.
	But for the consumer model, maybe around three grand.
	You know, when he says things like, why do you need 3,000 pounds of steel around you to go up to the store?
	Well, you don't, really.
	On the other hand, if some of those people maintain the three or four thousand pounds of steel about them, and you're on it... Well, there's no... I wonder if it can go anywhere anybody can walk, a pedestrian can... That's a very interesting question.
	Whether it'll be legal on sidewalks and that sort of thing.
	You know, an it-person collision would not be good, an it-vehicle collision would be really bad.
	But there it is, anyway.
	I'm sure some of you may have comments on it.
	It's just irresistible, you know, with that name.
	Not to use it.
	Okay, open lines for the balance of this hour coming up.
	There are a couple of other things.
	There are earthquake swarms going on now in the Spokane area for some time.
	Spokane has been experiencing just swarms.
	Earthquake after earthquake after earthquake.
	And I wonder what it is that's going on up there.
	Some sort of fault line that may have escaped the experts' attention until now.
	They're not sure.
	But apparently that may well be the case.
	They're feeling all kinds of small earthquakes now, whether that portends something wider or not, you know, you have to have a crystal ball.
	Worldwide, now this may not surprise a lot of you, worldwide, fish catches are not just down, they are plummeting.
	The number of fish that fishermen worldwide are able to catch is plummeting.
	A team of scientists based at the University of British Columbia at Vancouver Found that global catches thought in the 1990s to be increasing by 700 million pounds of fish per year.
	Guess what?
	Have actually been decreasing instead by 800 million pounds annually.
	So somebody got their numbers way wrong.
	Way wrong.
	Are you surprised?
	I'm certainly not.
	They had numbers.
	Now again, let's think about this.
	Showing there was a big increase in the number of fish being caught by about 700 million.
	That's a lot.
	But now they're wrong.
	And not just by that number, but by over twice that number.
	Actually, it's decreasing by nearly 800 million pounds annually.
	That's a whole lot less fish, folks.
	And there's a reason.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi Art, how are you doing?
	Okay sir, where are you?
	I am in Connecticut.
	Alright, fire away.
	Um, first time caller, and I've only been listening to you for about two months now since I just relocated.
	Happy to have you.
	Excuse me?
	I said happy to have you, go ahead.
	Oh, thank you.
	Um, I had a question about kind of a phenomenon I've been experiencing since I was younger.
	Okay.
	Um, whenever I go to sleep at night, As I'm laying there and I start to relax and drift in that happy middle place, I start to hear what sounds like thousands and thousands of voices talking loudly.
	I can't understand any words or anything, but it's kind of disturbing, frankly.
	Well, are you really sure that you would specifically describe it that way as thousands of voices or could you describe it as sort of a gigantic hum or vibration?
	Oh no, it definitely sounds like people speaking.
	The other thing that I have is sometimes it'll be like a singular voice where I can never pick out You know, an actual word, but, you know, it sounds like somebody just yelled my name, or, you know, just yelled something, a phrase, a sentence, something, and, you know, it kind of makes me start back to reality.
	I was just wondering if, uh, if you had ever heard anything like that, or if any of your callers had called in with a similar problem.
	Maybe somebody on the other side is trying to get your attention.
	Oh, okay.
	What do you think?
	I don't know.
	Um, it's been happening Probably for a good seven or eight years now.
	I'm in my mid-twenties.
	But, uh... Huh.
	Well, every now and then, sir, I get a new one, and you've dropped a new one on me.
	And you're on a cell phone that's about to be disconnected.
	You've dropped a new one on me, so I don't know what to tell you, sir.
	Okay, well, I thought I could entertain you for a little bit, and thanks for taking my call.
	You did.
	Take care.
	Of course, there are psychiatric conditions associated, a lot of people would say, or psychiatrists would say, with hearing voices.
	But it doesn't sound like the same sort of thing to me.
	So, what you've got there is something new.
	I don't know what to tell you about that.
	Voices, and then sometimes a singular voice yelling your name.
	That's what caused me to say maybe somebody on the other side is trying to get your attention.
	Other than that, I don't know.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Cheerio.
	Uh, hi, uh... Turn your radio off, please.
	Okay, thank... Uh, yeah, uh, am I... Is that Bell?
	Yes.
	Oh, hi, uh, this is Brandon in, uh, Cottage Grove.
	Yes, sir.
	Oregon, um... Uh, I really have no, uh, alien stuff to talk about, um... Me neither.
	I just wondered, uh, when are you gonna have, uh, the guest Kent Hovind back on?
	Well, I don't know.
	I don't know.
	I guess when there comes need to or reason to, why?
	Well, I think you can bring him on.
	Get the age of the earth theory out of here.
	It's not billions of years old.
	Get all that stuff out of there.
	He thinks it's only 6,000 years old, right?
	Yeah, I went to one of his seminars up here.
	He explained it clearly up here.
	Well, he does explain it clearly, it's just that I don't buy it.
	You know, I understand there are a lot of fundamentalists, and I give them voice when they want it, who think the Earth is only 6,000 years old, and that all of the evidence, actually, the mountains of evidence now, that we're not only a very old But that we're a whole lot older than even we think, and even the scientists think, and that man has been tromping about, or some version of man, on Earth for a really, really long time.
	That was going to be the center of a discussion tonight regarding Atlantis, but again, my guest is ill, sore throat, and so that'll have to be rescheduled.
	Nevertheless, I find it increasingly difficult, if not impossible, to buy into the 6,000, you know, man has only been on the planet for 6,000 years theory, that creation virtually occurred that long ago.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Chuck from London level.
	I can tell you're a trucker.
	How you doing?
	Alright.
	Alright.
	I want you to investigate with people who've been having a lot of visions.
	I live in Vegas and I've run into several people that had the same vision I've had of seeing a nuclear explosion.
	I had one day when I started driving from the Summerland Parkway, I made it all the way up to the Spaghetti Bowl.
	I did not know how I got there, and the whole time I envisioned a nuclear explosion happening over the Sunrise Mound.
	You know it's on the other side of Sunrise Mound, so I don't want to say what it is.
	Yes, I do, and we all know.
	So, I ran into someone just by, you know, incident, you know.
	I talked about it, and they had that same vision.
	And they ran into people that had that same vision.
	And it's scaring the hell out of me, especially with what's going on now.
	All right, well, you know, you're talking about Boulder Dam, right?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, you're talking about Boulder Dam.
	All right.
	Thanks.
	So there's somebody who's having visions of a nuclear detonation near Boulder Dam.
	Well, of course, They've closed off the Visitor Center on a number of occasions recently to Boulder Dam.
	It's one of the places they watch for obvious reasons.
	And that's what he's referring to over Sunrise Mountain.
	I don't know how many of you are having similar visions.
	I can't say that I've had that, but you need to pay attention when people begin to share those sorts of visions.
	On the other hand, You could say to yourself, well, people are just having
	those kinds of thoughts and visions because of what has occurred.
	And it has suggested this to them, and so they're having those kinds of dreams. I don't know.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air. Good morning.
	Yes, Art. This is Jim in Charlotte, North Carolina.
	Yes, Jim.
	Yeah, I wanted to, you had Richard Hoagland on about a month ago for a few minutes, like a half hour.
	Right.
	And it was mentioned about Zacharias Fitch and Phantom Planet and Thor's Hammer and all this.
	And I hadn't heard a word about it since, and I was just wondering what was going on there,
	because this was supposedly like eight months out at that time.
	Well, I don't know.
	We'll have to get Richard back on and ask him.
	Yeah, I don't have an answer immediately for you what's new in that area.
	Richard put a message on my answering machine today, and I didn't have a chance to get back to him yet, but I'll be talking to him shortly.
	So, you know, if there's some reason to come back on the air, we'll do it.
	That's big news if that's happening.
	Sure.
	The world is full of big news right now.
	That's the truth.
	Yeah, thank you again.
	Anybody out there have any thoughts on the bigger picture out there right now?
	I mean, think about it.
	Here we are, involved in Afghanistan.
	Big brouhaha in Afghanistan.
	And, uh, the Middle East is blowing up.
	What do you think it all means?
	Do you think there is something big that's about to happen?
	Some world-scale conflict that's going to break out?
	Are we on the verge of that?
	Or will it all resolve itself?
	I'm Art Bell.
	Open night is power.
	City lights painted girl.
	In the day, nothing matters.
	It's the night, turn the flutter.
	In the night, no control.
	Through the wall, something's breaking.
	Wear it white, as you're walking.
	Down the street, of the ghost town.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
	Ah, it is.
	Well, I'm watching the sun very carefully, as always.
	I've done that all my life.
	And our sun is really going berserko.
	In fact, if you're a ham radio operator, as I am, you might have experienced openings now to Europe.
	Europe on 50 megahertz, 6 meters, which is astounding.
	Not unheard of, but absolutely astounding.
	And I say that As I comment on the general world situation, wars, rumors of wars, terrorism, it's all happening.
	The financial markets askew, everything is cattywampus.
	Environmentally, it's a disaster out there.
	And to a large degree, I blame a lot of human behavior and misbehavior on activity on the sun.
	And the way the Earth, uh, affects the, uh, rather, the way the Sun affects the Earth's magnetic field, and hence all of us.
	I've just been, uh, following this for years.
	Things are clearly, uh, quickening.
	Uh, no question about that.
	That process, uh, very well underway.
	Oh, wow, Cardline, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Brother Bell.
	Yes, yes, sir.
	How's Thursday?
	Uh, just fine, sir.
	Excellent.
	Uh, with regards to, uh, cloning, Ah, yes.
	I, being having only one kidney now, I would be for it a hundred percent.
	You would?
	Yes.
	Um, if your kidney was failing, you wouldn't have any, uh, ethical, moral dilemmas about accepting one if it were available?
	None whatsoever.
	I understand you can go to China and they sell them there.
	Oh, yes.
	And I've been running thoughts of that through my head.
	You would do that if necessary?
	Yes.
	The one thing that does bother me is after that, after I've finished myself,
	my next clone, I'm not sure which would be my first choice, possibly Bo Derek or Crystal Gale.
	Ha ha ha ha. All right.
	Make a real dilemma for me.
	Well, no, it doesn't sound like... Not necessarily me.
	Actually, actually, sir, it doesn't sound like you have any dilemma at all.
	It sounds to me as though you're squarely in favor of cloning.
	For personal organs and for those of others as well.
	Yeah, cloning, there's another one.
	There's a lot of news going on right now.
	So many big stories that It's really not possible to properly and appropriately follow them all.
	I mean, these are all big stories that, on their own, deserve almost full-time attention.
	Our war.
	What's going on in the Middle East.
	What's going on with the environment.
	What's going on with cloning.
	There are so many things that deserve almost full-time individual attention, and yet they're all happening at once.
	Surprised?
	East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Good morning.
	Morning, Art.
	Hi.
	This is Eric, out in Florida.
	Hello, Eric.
	I'm originally from north Las Vegas.
	I'm out here for a little bit.
	Yes, sir.
	Yes, in reference to it and the genie called it that the post office will be using.
	Yes.
	I envision 50 cent stamps.
	After they get them.
	You think it'll drive up the cost of stamps?
	Oh, yeah.
	You know, I think what's going to drive up the cost of stamps is the fact that not as many people are using the mails, and that's causing a terrible... I mean, you cannot imagine what's... I can barely imagine what's occurring to the post office right now.
	I feel sorry for them.
	Yeah.
	Well, maybe if they change the procedure as far as...
	No more drop boxes.
	Everybody has to get a fingerprint instead of a stamp, you know, and then they could be able to trace the, you know, a fingerprint on the letter.
	I'll tell you something, that's one of the type things that we're going to be talking about tonight with Nick Begich, this whole privacy thing.
	You know with the 9-1-1, when they, when 9-1-1 happened and everybody was blaming the government for not seeing this terrorist attack coming. I think that's why you have the,
	the every now and then this is the third disclosure where they're saying America be careful because
	something is going to happen.
	Yes, like a disclaimer now. The third, yeah, it's like a disclaimer actually. Yes,
	very much like that. So they won't be able to say we didn't tell you, you know. Yep. Also, you know,
	Art, you were saying that you think man has been here for a very long time. Very long time. Yes.
	You know, I brought up, uh, like the Barbara Simpson one time I was telling her,
	I believe that, uh, that could be an answer to how man built the pyramids.
	Oh, of course it could. With the dinosaur's help. Yeah. Oh, with the dinosaur's help. Uh,
	I think the evidence is clearly, very clearly mounting for anybody who really wants to look at it, and I understand there are a lot of people who don't.
	You know, but man has been here for a very, very long time and had technologies that we don't have today.
	We've gone down a different sort of path, a linear technological path, and our science is sort of straight ahead in one direction, with physics as we understand them, And it may be there was a whole different set of physics that allowed people in a different time, a different era, to do things that we do now in a different way.
	Maybe a better way, maybe not as good.
	Who knows?
	West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	This is Gary out of Seattle on Como.
	Yes, sir.
	Hey, quick comment about the world situation first.
	I think we should all bear in mind that I think a secret deal was struck when Putin was over here talking to Bush about the oil.
	We are getting a lot more oil from Russia right now, and they have counterbalanced OPEC as far as raising the prices.
	And I believe Russia also has an interest in getting a pipeline from the Caspian area over to India.
	They sure do.
	They've got a lot of oil under the ground, sir.
	And so do we.
	And I think maybe we... I'm hoping, what I'm hoping this is all about eventually, is if we cooperate with Russia, that we will finally form a counterbalance from 20 years of being blackmailed by the Saudis.
	I think we ought to form a national wind farm reserve down the middle of the country and put up a huge amount of windmills.
	We could have enough energy for the whole country.
	Oh God, we should be doing the windmill thing and solar panels and all the rest of it.
	We should have been doing it for a long time now.
	Absolutely, that would be true security.
	Back to it though, I must say I was a bit disappointed.
	It was kind of what I expected, but it didn't even have a hydrogen Yeah, I'm with you.
	I'm kind of disappointed.
	I'm not exactly surprised, because I thought it was going to be just a little twist on the iBot thing, which is what it is.
	Yeah.
	But I'd rather, you know, for that kind of money, $3,000, and I've heard the initial one's going to be $8,000 to the industries, and they're hoping to get it to $3,000.
	Right.
	Doesn't even have tungsten mags on it, for God's sake.
	I'd rather have a motorcycle for $3,000, you know?
	Yeah, I don't know that it justifies the hype that came before it.
	But Art, there is a device that would be revolutionary.
	I think I heard you musing, I think it was Friday on Open Alliance, you were talking about you wished you had a magic hovering carpet that would hover silently through the air.
	Well, a magic carpet is what I wanted when I was seven.
	Now what I want is an anti-grav type device of some sort.
	That yes, would hover.
	Such a thing as anti-gravity, I don't know, a thing that would do just that does exist.
	There's an actual patent taken out on it.
	I've seen they built a flying model of it about three feet square.
	Oh look, I've been interviewing Mahler and I need to interview him again on the flying car.
	Sure, there's all kinds of plans out there, but...
	This was actually built.
	It was built by a guy named Dave Seversky.
	He used to work with Curtis LeMay, that worked back at SAC.
	Right.
	And he got this idea from seeing ionized smokestacks.
	And this thing would be like an electric helicopter.
	It's an ion stream.
	And they actually built it.
	They even had a patent, which is probably expired.
	And if someone like your friend Mr. Bigelow, that has millions, would invest a hundred, two hundred million in this thing, they could probably build them.
	And the great thing is, the bigger they get, They just work on an electronic downdraft.
	The bigger they get, the more efficient they are.
	They could probably go above 100,000 feet.
	And the bigger they would be, they could land directly in cities.
	This would probably transform cities more than it.
	They could directly, vertically land, lift freight, lift people, so you get smaller power sources.
	So you could build a block wide if you wanted to.
	Well, I agree.
	If that's true, I'd love to know more about that.
	It, as far as it is concerned, Dean Kamen's it.
	It's interesting, but it's not the world-modifying device that it was hyped to be.
	It's an interesting scooter.
	Although, from my personal point of view, I prefer a scooter you sit on.
	Standing, I don't know.
	Even though I understand the gyros keep you straight, and I understand you can zoom along and you can make tight little turns and everything, I don't know.
	I'd rather sit.
	And because it's just two wheels and you've got to stand, I just... You know, Americans are in love with their cars.
	They really are in love with their cars.
	Now, for a short jaunt, it makes sense.
	But so do other scooters.
	And... I don't know.
	The hype was just way beyond the reality.
	First time caller line, you are on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Eric.
	How's it going?
	It's going, sir.
	Where are you?
	Well, I'm in Hartford, Connecticut.
	Hartford.
	Uh, alright.
	Uh, what's up?
	Had a couple of questions, actually.
	Well, one, actually, regarding it, the thing I thought that was kind of interesting, because I've been looking for, um, alternative transportation.
	There's a couple of, uh, good websites along those lines, as well.
	Um, but on that person, on that Hover, like, floating type of device you were talking about?
	Yes.
	I did find a vendor that had something that, pretty much along those lines, it does hover.
	Right now, it uses, um, gas, but it's supposed to be Down the road, go ahead to using something that's going to be electric.
	And that was at a company called Zapp Bikes.
	And they have a website.
	I'm sure they do.
	Please don't give it out.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	And also, we had a caller, actually from Connecticut as well, that was talking about that.
	When they go into a, when they're starting to fall asleep, they hear voices and everything.
	Yes.
	And I myself have two sleep disorders.
	So I've kind of gone through a lot of this in the past 15 years.
	And one of the things that my therapist was telling me that was quite interesting was what happens is before you get into that lucid dream state as you're falling asleep, what happens is it's kind of like you're getting into REM sleep to where you can have dreams, but as we know, we've had several thousand dreams and we're lucky if we're conscious of a single one of them.
	Every now and then, certain influences come out in that state We're conscious of it because we're not totally achieving REM sleep.
	Yeah, that's because you're in a particularly vulnerable moment.
	Yeah, definitely.
	Yeah, but it's really like, at first, it's like if you're falling asleep.
	How many times have you got that quick flinch where you're jumping like you think you're falling or something is coming?
	It has happened many times to me and I'm sure everybody.
	Same thing except for obviously with, uh, Well, that occurs at that same time.
	In other words, yeah, I think we're talking about the same period.
	Now, I experience a lot of that sort of stuff, and I believe the reason for that is because instead of one sleep cycle, I have two.
	I sleep shortly after the program in the morning for, you know, a short period, very short period, and then again in the afternoon for a second short period.
	Probably not a really good idea.
	But, uh, you go through twice the cycles, and your sleep is probably, uh, less, uh... deep.
	And so as a result, you have more of this Twilight Zone time, I guess I'll call it.
	Twilight Zone time.
	And you are vulnerable to all kinds of things.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello?
	Hello?
	Turn your radio off, please.
	Okay.
	And then proceed.
	Alright.
	So...
	Yeah, good.
	Go.
	Alright.
	Uh, I was wondering if I could just make a little, uh, statement.
	I wanted to tell them, uh, read a quatrain from Nostradamus.
	Uh, well... It refers to, uh, what's going on right now.
	You think so?
	Yes.
	What is it?
	Alright.
	There's a few of them here.
	I'll just read you one right here.
	Just one, right?
	One who the infernal gods of Hannibal will cause to be born.
	Terror to all mankind.
	Never more horror, nor the newspapers tell of worse in the past.
	Well?
	Who do you think that might be?
	Oh, well, the gods of Hannibal were.
	They were, uh... No, that, that, that who is going to be born, that person who is going to be born.
	Oh, uh... Third Antichrist, allegedly.
	Think so?
	Well, uh, he may be here now.
	There are those who believe he is here now.
	The Antichrist walks among us now.
	And who's to say not?
	With everything that is going on, I suppose you could almost attach some sort of biblical possibilities to present events, couldn't you?
	Worldwide.
	Definitely.
	Definitely.
	There could be something like that on the horizon.
	Something biblical.
	West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hi there.
	Hi.
	Can you turn your radio off, please?
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	All right.
	Everybody makes the same mistake.
	All right.
	Where are you?
	I'm listening to the show.
	Yes, sir.
	I just keep redialing, redialing, redialing.
	Yes, sir.
	Where are you located?
	In Arizona.
	Okay.
	The guy I called earlier about hears voices when he goes to sleep.
	Yes.
	I have received a massive back injury, and one of the things the doctor was giving me was codeine.
	And this stuff is really nasty and bizarre.
	I can't take codeine, I'm allergic to it.
	It will actually make you hallucinate.
	I would like to hear voices, and if I took enough of it, I'd actually hallucinate from this stuff.
	The guy was explaining, completely mimicked the voices and all that stuff.
	If he's taking a painkiller that has codeine in it, it will make him hear voices, no doubt about it.
	Well, I definitely had the doctor take me off that bizarre stuff.
	Of course, different pharmacology will affect different people in a different way.
	Some people may react as you did, some may react as I did.
	I'm allergic to codeine and it's kind of interesting what happened.
	This was a lot of years ago and I went to the dentist and the dentist did some pretty substantial work on me.
	And at the end of it all gave me some Cody, you know to go away with to feel better for the day.
	I think actually it was after two or three root canals and some bridge work.
	This was many many years ago and I'll tell you how many years ago.
	You'll know in a second.
	I took the codeine and went with a gal, an acquaintance of mine, a gal, to a drive-in movie theater and The codeine reaction set in while I was at the drive-in movies.
	We don't have drive-in movies anymore.
	I guess there are a few scattered around the country, but by and large, they're gone.
	Anyway, we went to a drive-in movie theater, and the codeine reaction hit.
	You know, I have that allergy, and I passed out, you know, right in the car, watching the movie.
	Passed out.
	Well, they called an ambulance to come and get me.
	And the ambulance came roaring into the theater, and I don't know how many of you remember the old drive-in theaters, but one way they prevented you from sneaking into the drive-in was they would put these spikes, which I'm sure you all know about, that if you're going the wrong way, they call it severe tire damage.
	Actually, it totally shreds your tire.
	Well, the ambulance, of course, wasn't taking its time.
	It was trying to get to me very quickly, and it came roaring in the wrong way.
	And all you could hear was boom, boom, boom, boom.
	Four explosions as this ambulance screams over this wrong way spike, set of spikes.
	And then I never did take the ambulance to the hospital anyway.
	So they had to be towed away.
	They put it up on a flatbed and took the ambulance away, but not me.
	I knew from then on codeine was not for me.
	And the ambulance company, I presume, knew which way to come into that theater after that.
	East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, Mr. Bell.
	How are you this evening?
	I'm fine.
	I'd like to just comment on your policy that you were... I shouldn't say policy, but the statement you have made about isolationism.
	Yes.
	For the United States.
	No, not for the... No, sir.
	What I was talking about was individual isolationism.
	In other words, if something occurs, a biological release of some sort or some other terrorist act in this country, there may be a period of time when, for your own safety and that of your family, you might have to isolate yourself.
	I see.
	That's what I was talking about.
	I see.
	Okay.
	Just real quick then, since we got that one out of the way, I saw Fire in the Sky this evening.
	Oh, no kidding?
	Yes.
	It was the first time that I'd actually seen the movie.
	Let's worry if you had any comments, actually, about the movie or the... Oh, I have comments about the reality, sir.
	I interviewed Travis Walton.
	Okay.
	I interviewed his boss, all of whom, you know, participated in that whole thing.
	And they took two sets of lie detector tests and passed them.
	Believe me, their story is straight down the line legit.
	Lots of witnesses.
	What else can I tell you?
	Legitimate.
	Uh-huh.
	Was, uh, was anything that, uh, partook in the, uh, that the, uh, movie portrayed, was anything in the movie, uh, a little bit more elaborate than what actually had occurred from, uh... You know, I really should dig that.
	I did, like, a five-hour interview with Travis and company, and, uh, there was so much we talked about.
	Yes, the movie jazzed, you know, some things up the way a movie does, but the basic story that you saw Was pretty basically, yes, what did occur.
	Absolutely incredible.
	Maybe we'll try and get that repeated so you can hear it.
	That'd be wonderful.
	All right, take care.
	Yes, the story of Travis Walton is an amazing story.
	Amazing.
	Actually, I did a couple of interviews with him.
	The first of which I think was The Better.
	I don't know.
	I'll have to think about that.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello, Art.
	This is Steve from...
	Uh, Tacoma, Washington area?
	Yes, Steve.
	Long time listener.
	Uh, I've written you a couple of times.
	I'm an amateur radio operator.
	Worked, uh, worked for a large, uh, let's say aerospace company.
	Worked RF and so forth.
	But, you know, as far as amateur radio and the sun and so forth, we're talking about, if you think about what's going on now, And the time is 2001.
	Right.
	And we have going on what's going on now.
	If you go back 11 years...
	It's more interesting to jump 11 years.
	Forward or backward?
	Forward.
	If you jump forward one cycle, where do you get?
	You get to 2012.
	Okay.
	What's 2012?
	It's the end of the Mayan calendar.
	Right, but if you go back 11 years, you come into 1990.
	Right.
	What happened then?
	The Gulf War.
	Oh yeah.
	If you go back to 79, well I didn't have that, I didn't research that enough, but if you go back to 11, not 11 years, you go back to 1968.
	Uh huh.
	Vietnam.
	That's right.
	Oh no, I'm sure you heard my comments.
	I've been watching it all my life and I think there is an absolute relationship.
	It has to be.
	All this energy coming from the sun.
	We are electrical.
	You know, our nerves work with electrical impulses.
	You betcha.
	You get the electricity from the sun.
	You betcha.
	Something's going on.
	No question about it, sir.
	I'm sorry, I've got to break it off.
	We're going to the top of the hour.
	I absolutely agree with you.
	I mean, un-categorically agree with you.
	The sun influences all of us, and right now, it's going berserk.
	And to some degree, so are we.
	surprise.
	I'm going to go ahead and start. All right. Now, doctor, comes Dr. Nick Biggage.
	The eldest son of a U.S.
	Congressman from Alaska, Nick Begich, Sr., and political activist Peggy Begich.
	He is a very well-known Alaskan for his own political activities, was twice elected president of both the Alaska Federation of Teachers and the Anchorage Council of Education, has been pursuing independent research in the sciences and politics for most of his adult life.
	Begich received his doctorate in traditional medicine from the Open International
	University for Contemporary Medicines in November 1994.
	So it's Dr. Begich.
	He co-authored the book Angels Don't Play This Harp, Advances in Tesla Technology, and wrote Towards a New Alchemy,
	the Millennium Science, his latest book, Earth Rising, the Revolution Toward a Thousand Years of Peace,
	co-authored with James Roderick in December of 99, also editor of the Earth Pulse of Flashpoints,
	a continuing new science book series.
	Begich has published articles in science, politics, and education, is a well-known lecturer,
	having presented throughout the US and in 19 countries, has been featured as a guest on thousands of radio
	broadcasts reporting his research activities,
	including new technologies, health, and earth science related issues.
	Has also appeared on dozens of TV documentaries and other programs throughout the world, including BBC, CBC, Telemundo, and of course many others.
	Here is Dr. Nick Begich.
	Hi, Dr. Begich.
	How are you doing?
	I'm doing great.
	It's good to be back with you again.
	It's great to have you.
	Doctor, in the last hour, Somebody called about the post office and he was talking about he thought eventually everybody would be fingerprinted and wouldn't be allowed to send mail or something unless they were specifically identified.
	Of course now you can just put a letter with a bunch of poison in it and mail it off and cause all kinds of havoc as was done.
	But surely with these threats, with terrorism, with the war, with everything that's going on right now, it's inevitable.
	Security measures are coming.
	What are they going to be?
	You know, this is probably the single biggest area that's sort of sleeping right now in terms of people really recognizing how much can come and how quick and how fast the temperature can change because just, you know, the idea of uh... i'll say a thumbprint to mail a letter
	you know a year ago that would have been considered pretty intrusive for most people's from a
	point of view and always
	you know today that's a much different aca equation and something i think
	uh... that's that's not too far off one of the first things you know along this
	line of course has been the discussion of uh... smart card technologies for affirmative identifications
	and and as i think most people know now
	uh... the military unveiled their smart card for introduction for access to
	almost every electronic a system in the military but this
	same technology has been posed for either Visitors to the United States, to go in conjunction with passports, or even for U.S.
	citizens, where all of us are required some form of ID with a biometric measure, which is a measure that takes some unique characteristic that's uniquely our own, whether it's a thumbprint, which most of us are familiar with, or even digitized voice information, or iris scans, a number of things can be used for tracking that kind of data.
	What do you think is immediately in the offing?
	I mean, people rebel, go nuts when they talk about national ID cards.
	Well, I think it's going to be sort of phased in.
	And my sort of predictions on that, based on how we're seeing the technology unfold
	and what we've seen over really the last seven or eight years even, you first see the introduction
	of the smart ID card into military circles for obvious control and ease of access and
	control of access situations.
	But the other thing that shows up in sort of the next leap is then, of course, to foreign
	travelers.
	Most people don't object to some form of very positive, verifiable ID for people visiting
	as guests in our country.
	The next place where you see it is in frequent travelers.
	In fact, one of the suggestions by the airline industry is the trusted traveler card.
	So I guess that means everyone who doesn't get one is the untrusted traveler.
	The trusted traveler card?
	Right, and the idea from the industry was to get very specific biometric data, things that Identified an individual absolutely so that people who frequently flew could bypass some of the more stringent security checks based on more thorough background checks on individuals.
	Wow!
	And you know that sort of a step actually rings back to something we wrote about in our first book and even in our last one a couple years ago which was the idea of biocircuitry implants, the fusion of biological material with electronic material and this is First showed up in the military literature in 1989 that we found and it was in a US Army War College document that was called the Revolutionary Military Affairs and it talked about sort of the advancement of new technologies and what was coming.
	One of those things being implantable technologies but what it also said in this paper was that it was You know, it's the contrary to American values that in order for those kinds of technologies to be introduced, values would have to be changed.
	And interestingly enough, the two scenarios they suggested would change those values were fear and panic developed or created by either international terrorism or international drug trafficking or a little bit of each.
	Are those values changing now?
	I think so.
	I think very rapidly.
	In fact, there was a conference back in 1997 that Secretary of Defense William Cohen And Senators Lugar and I think it was Nunn was the other U.S.
	Senator.
	It was at the University of Georgia in April of 97 on weapons of mass destruction and international terrorism.
	And in that conference, one of the big concerns that he actually expressed was this idea of, you know, how much will we give up as Americans individually in terms of Uh, civil liberties in exchange for safety and security.
	And I think that's really the crux of what we've seen change.
	Well, how much, how much will we give up?
	Let's talk about the airlines right now.
	Uh, we have longer waits, longer security checks, but, uh, you know, obviously if something else occurs and it could easily based on a lot of stories I've heard about security since then, then there's going to be some real tightening.
	And, uh, how far do you think people will let it go?
	I think actually people let it go pretty far.
	In fact, the airport security we see now is still not as intense as European security has been for at least seven or eight years.
	Nowhere near the Israelis.
	Yeah, exactly.
	I mean, there's the security of the planet in terms of airports.
	But even general European traffic is more well controlled.
	I mean, when you look out on the tarmac at a Skivel Airport in the Netherlands and you
	see a truck pull up to an airplane, two people with automatic weapons meet them and the people
	come off the truck, they're searched, their carts are searched, and then they load the
	food.
	You know, there's a lot more going on and has been overseas that, you know, I don't
	feel, you know, the first time I went through European Customs, you know, where they actually
	do a personal interview with every single person getting on the plane, that's a pretty
	You got a guy about five inches from your face asking you 50 questions, and if you're not expecting it, it's quite unnerving.
	But that's the level of security that's been there for some time.
	Multiple security checks, personal interviews, and very stringent activity on the tarmac.
	What percentage of Americans do you think now would accept a mandatory identification card?
	Unfortunately, I think the percentage is probably around, probably around 60%.
	I'd say I'm climbing as things intensify.
	And I think that, you know, what we've, you know, what we've seen in the last, you know, few months might seem like, you know, positive movement in terms of containing the threat.
	But, but in actuality, I think it's maybe an expression, a little bit of frustration because the threat is much different than any threat we've had before.
	And quite frankly, I don't think we've done a lot to solve the real problem underlying all of this, which is a type of mindset, a type of anti-Americanism that springs from all kinds of faulted policies of the past, and for a lot of other reasons.
	But the fact is, we're facing a very different kind of warfare environment, and one that many have been concerned about for the better part of a decade, in terms of military planners, at least from what we've seen.
	You and I have talked many times about HAARP.
	Right.
	Which is an acronym which stands for?
	The High Frequency Active Auroral Research Project.
	And this project is here based in Alaska.
	And we've been, of course, I think, in fact, you were the first major person on radio to take this story public.
	In fact, we did this same topic almost six years ago to this week at least.
	That we first went on the air on that very subject.
	Has it been that long?
	Six years.
	1995 is when we did December, I think it was December 2nd or 1st of 95.
	HAARP is an amazing project right up there where you are or near you in the state of Alaska and we've been following it all that time since we did that first program.
	HAARP is a ionospheric That's exactly how the military originally termed these particular devices, yes.
	And the stated goals of the HAARP project in Alaska, all these antennas and all this power, which concentrates from a broad beam on the ground to a very narrow beam where it hits the ionosphere.
	The stated goals of this project are what?
	What are they trying to do?
	Well, the first issue was communications with submarines, communication at depth.
	And in order to accomplish that, they needed to figure out a way to generate what's called a longwave, an extremely low frequency signal.
	What they do with HAARP is it's a large radio transmitter on the ground, and by manipulating the energy, by pulsing that energy into the ionosphere, this layer that starts about 30 miles above, The Earth's surface, they're able to actually cause the ionosphere to modulate or vibrate.
	And when it does, it sends a signal back to the Earth in this ELF, extremely low frequency, range that actually penetrates the Earth and sea and allows for the communication with submarines.
	Another sort of side effect of that is a certain amount of that signal is reflected back.
	And if you have sensitive instruments on the ground that can analyze that reflection, you can actually deduce Uh, with a great degree of accuracy, exactly what's under the ground, whether it's underground tunnels, bunkers, oil reserves, certain types of minerals show up pretty dramatically, but I have never quite understood how that part of it works.
	What I do understand is that most people say, oh, what a bunch of baloney, you know, man cannot produce enough energy.
	to make any change in anything like the ionosphere or anything else.
	But there's a good analogy, or maybe not so good, but the one I'll use, is you can take a knife and you can thrust it into an elephant's leg.
	Now, that won't take a whole lot of energy, a bit, but the energy that's produced by what you have done is going to be a tremendous amount.
	And that's kind of what HAARP does, isn't it?
	Yeah, it releases a good deal of energy, you know, in the ionosphere if it's manipulated in just the right way.
	But one of the things that's important to note is this idea of Earth-penetrating tomography back in 95, 96, when they were debating this in the Congress, it was determined that the only way they would get additional funding is if they could prove that particular use.
	And so they did create the modulation in the ionosphere.
	In fact, it was reported By Professor Papadopoulos, who was at the University of Maryland at the time involved in the HAARP project in BBC on a program called Horizons, where they described how they were able to locate underground mining facilities in the area of Fairbanks with a great degree of accuracy.
	Yeah, so how interesting.
	So they, in essence, modulate the ionosphere.
	They get a return, kind of like a Good analogy, I suppose, would be a radar return.
	Right.
	Except they can actually see underground and detect bunkers and mines and caves, of course.
	Right.
	Right?
	Right.
	Now, if that's true, how could it not be used to try and find the main complex of Osama bin Laden's hiding places?
	Well, this is a great point because, you know, when we first interviewed one of the key players on this project, John Heckscher, Who was the, at that time, the PR guy for the military.
	He was also a geophysicist.
	Boy, do I remember that.
	Well, he was, uh, he was, um, suggesting at one point when we, uh, when we interviewed him that wouldn't it have been nice to have during the Gulf War for exactly that purpose, locating those underground facilities that we suspected, you know, had the biological and chemical, maybe even, uh, some dirty atomic sort of plants that they may have had there.
	Yes.
	The reality is a lot of money has been pumped into this over the years and you know we've tracked it through the years and what they've done in the last say four or five years is the initiative for missile defense and we had always said in the very beginning that one of the main issues with HAARP was to design a better missile defense system that would have a more versatile instrument in terms of detection and surveillance and that's what HAARP offered that was different from the prior technology but the other issue is This whole idea of locating underground facilities, whether it's Korea or Iraq or now Afghanistan, this technology is critical when you're fighting in this kind of war environment.
	It's a much different environment.
	Being able to look into the earth offers incredible advantages, and we're talking about not just A few hundred feet, but perhaps as many as several kilometers deep.
	Yeah, that's what I was going to ask.
	How far down can they see, and with what sort of resolution do you imagine?
	Well, from what's been described, pretty high resolution, and even going back to technologies developed in the 80s.
	There was a guy named... Oh, now it slips me.
	He'll come to me in a second.
	It's Brooks Agnew.
	He was doing work in earth-penetrating tomography using very, very low amounts of power, but creating a resonant signal that easily transferred through the earth and came back with, even back in, say, the 80s, with enough computing power available then to analyze with what he described as 99.9% accuracy, and that was analyzing 26 known Drilling cores done by Halliburton oil and gas in nine different states through various types of strata and and they and they had that kind of accuracy in determining what was there and even to the grade of the oil and gas which is pretty phenomenal.
	All right over the years we have tracked HAARP as it began as they said what it was going to be as the signals actually went on the air and of course they had plans to go to extremely high power output uh... and uh...
	i'm wondering what's going on in that arena where are they in the project
	will this is interesting because you know all the time that you know that
	that we in in i guess the alternative media has been reporting on this finally
	msnbc uh... did a story justin of the last few days it was on i
	think the twenty ninth or twenty eighth of uh... november i saw
	and you know one of the things that they indicated very clearly is is where this
	technology is is based in the fact that the full power contracts that are being negotiated now even
	last few weeks with our co-power technologies inc which was later bought
	out by e-systems and then rapion corporation
	has actually um... i've begun the negotiating process for full power which
	is our figures Right, which is the one billion watts of effective radiated power desired at the very beginning of this program.
	One billion watts of effective radiated power, that's amazing.
	Dr. Biggage, hold on, we'll be right back.
	Well, we are at war.
	But a billion watts.
	We'll talk about what it might affect as the program goes on.
	And it might affect you.
	Or it might even be affecting you now.
	Who knows?
	Or they might find Osama Bin Laden.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Sweet dreams are made of years.
	Who am I to disagree?
	I travel the world and the seven seas.
	Everybody's looking for something.
	Some of them want to use you.
	Some of them want to get used by you.
	Some of them want to...
	All right, I think I'm caught up now on my commercials.
	And once again, here's Dr. Nick Biggage.
	So, a billion watts of effective radiated power.
	That's an enormous amount of power.
	Enough so that, and we're just covering this as quickly as we can, along with looking at underground tunnels and bunkers and all the rest of it, topography, all the rest of it, there could be biological effects on human beings because if it can get underground it has to first go through those who are above ground, that would be us.
	So there could be biological effects.
	What do you imagine them to be?
	Absolutely.
	In fact, this again was a major area of interest to us because it turns out that Extremely low frequency signals can have a tremendous effect on human physiology.
	In fact, there was an article that was published in... It was called Decoding the Minds and Foiling Adversaries.
	It was in Signal Magazine, 2001, October's issue.
	And this is the Armed Forces Communications and Electronics Association's journal.
	And when they were talking about sort of new technology that affect human behavior, one
	of the things they remind us of in that article is the event in Japan where the flicker of
	a light coming off of a television screen was sufficient to cause 700 children to have
	epileptic seizures a few years ago.
	And light coming from a television screen is considered harmless in most cases, but
	the flicker rate hit this extremely low frequency range, this particular range that allows for
	for reactions within the brain.
	The same can be, uh, created by any number of external, uh, signal drivers.
	Whether it were a flashing light signal from a television screen, or even the very subtle energy, uh, returning to the earth, uh, after a, um, a heart burst.
	Causing a, it could cause like a seizure, or a grand mal seizure, somehow.
	Absolutely, absolutely.
	Yeah, if you hit the right window frequencies, this is where these effects, um, can occur.
	In the case of the flickering light, It affected that same portion of the brain that would be responsible for the visual system, but at the same time, what they have found is any number of carriers can create the same effect.
	The idea of using even a signal embedded, say, on a radio broadcast or a television broadcast, this is something that was reported to have been used in the Gulf War, something the Scottish media reported after the events.
	But the idea of using A system like HAARP, where you're trying to create an Earth-penetrating, say, tomography application where you're looking into the Earth to see what's under the surface of the ground, that same signal could actually have a tremendous impact on the people living there.
	As a matter of curiosity, what do we know about the coverage area, in other words, as it comes back down to Earth after bouncing off the ionosphere, what would the What would the coverage area be like?
	Do you have any idea, Doctor?
	Well, you know, the thing about HAARP is you've got to be able to reflect the signal over the horizon to a certain level, but what they've done is they've essentially built a number of transmitters of a similar nature.
	We now know of at least two additional transmitters in Alaska, a number have been built across Canada.
	In fact, one researcher, Rosalie Bertel, who had done quite a bit of work, she's a physicist and an MD, published a book in Europe on the Canadian system, and then
	there's also the IZIKAT system in Europe. So, you know, it's not just HAARP
	anymore.
	Okay, even understanding that, let's just talk about HAARP for a second.
	That facility, let's say it went looking for underground bunkers.
	In other words, I understand the signal is very narrow as it hits the ionosphere, the effects we've talked about, but as it comes back down to do its mapping, how big would that area be?
	What they're saying in the literature is that the ionosphere for about a thousand miles would convert to an antenna, so you've got You know, you've got a broadcast antenna a thousand miles long, starting in Alaska.
	So, you know, over the horizon, going down towards the equator, could it reach Afghanistan?
	I'm not sure how those angles actually work out, but you've got a very high elevation.
	You've got plenty of distance.
	But what I'm asking, and maybe I'm not making myself clear, how much of an area on the ground at any given moment would you be looking at?
	Would it be a mile, ten miles, a hundred miles?
	On scale, we're talking about a hemispheric view with the right technologies used with it.
	In other words, this with the right technology on the ground to interpret the signal coming back or traversing the ground, You can cover a huge, huge area.
	Holy smokes!
	Alright, then if you're talking about a hemispheric view, you're talking about a potential hemispheric effect.
	Absolutely.
	Oh!
	And we're talking about huge amounts of energy directed in a way never contemplated before.
	At the same time, what the research showed at Stanford University is interesting is that If you hit certain window frequencies, just like triggering those instabilities in the human mind, you can create instabilities in the ionosphere.
	In the VLF range, it was found that once the signal reaches the upper ionosphere, which is several hundred kilometers out, and couples with the magnetosphere, VLF energy generated in the right frequency range causes an amplification effect of up to a thousand times.
	And what happens is it picks up on the energy that's there and triggers The release of energy that's already available, and that's where HAARP has perhaps the greatest risk and the greatest potential from a military perspective.
	It is sort of non-linear effect, this ability to take a small amount of energy and then create a huge amount of... That's really tampering with Mother Nature!
	Absolutely.
	And this is, again, you know, in sort of the rush to these kinds of dilemmas is the idea that, okay, now the science will sort of accelerate There weren't very many controls on this to begin with.
	Now there's even less.
	And I think that can be problematic for lots of different reasons.
	And I think the reasons that we've been writing and saying what we have for the last six or seven years has been really to try and avoid the rush to panic or the rush to enact a lot of law without a lot of consideration.
	And I think a careful review of the history and the evolution of these technologies It's pretty clear on what the risks can entail.
	Well, they're always going to balance potential risks against current potential risks to all of us.
	In other words, it's all a scale, and I'm sure that what's going on right now is tipping the balance very much in their direction, both politically, and of course that's going to mean money too, right?
	Right.
	Big, big dollars.
	I mean, the missile defense system Uh, you know, we were tracking it, you know, back in, uh, in 95 and we said back then that, you know, this would lead to the eventual, uh, abrogation or renegotiation of the ABM Treaty, which is exactly, uh, what the dialogue has been about the last few years.
	And in the, in, in Earth Rising, when we really got into the subject of sort of where does the missile defense system goes, to a certain extent, uh, we think a lot of it's been sort of misdirected.
	I mean, when you look at, uh, missile to missile intercepts, we think that's a misdirection.
	The real interest is in new energy technologies that can intercept missiles.
	But more importantly, the idea is to be able to detect before the launch and avoid the problem to begin with.
	And that's where the earth-penetrating tomography comes in.
	That's where some of the more sophisticated surveillance technologies come in.
	Absolutely.
	In fact, that's just a given.
	into the formulas of national defense.
	So we can expect HAARP will probably get more money and more support and they'll head toward
	a full power status faster?
	Absolutely.
	In fact, that's just a given.
	And you know, the way that the country has postured on this, which is kind of interesting,
	is they basically said, look, we're going to build the whole system and when we're all
	done we won't be in violation of the treaty unless we throw the switch.
	And you know, yeah, I know, I react the same way.
	It's like, if the Chinese were saying that to us, we would not be standing still, nor have the Chinese nor the Russians.
	But, you know, things are in flux right now.
	There's a lot of political trade-offs being orchestrated that maybe wouldn't have happened even a few months ago.
	So, who knows?
	I mean, I personally think the missile defense system is going I don't have any doubt in my mind that whatever problems the Russians have used to negotiate whatever it is they're looking for in life these days is going to happen and we're going to see this thing advance.
	And I think the idea of international terrorism as a catalyst for a whole lot of change, that is here to stay and I think what we saw on September 11th is the first of all the in a very long and drawn out conflict is going
	to create a much different world for yes uh... one great defense against
	terror of course would be uh... if you could read minds
	if you know if you could read minds of all my if you could read minds well
	uh... you know something about that don't you absolutely in fact again you
	know this whole idea of sort of looking at the human being as the prime driver in
	military operations I think we all can understand that.
	And what's changed and what started showing up in literature even a couple of decades ago, but more so recently, is this idea that attacking the human being in a much more different way by affecting the brain itself.
	And this has resulted in numerous patents and technologies, but the latest is a couple of things that showed up again in military journals.
	One of them is the idea of being able to literally tell what emotional state or even specific thoughts an individual might have.
	That's a mind-reading machine.
	Right, exactly right.
	And the way they're doing this, it's interesting, is it requires huge amounts of computing power in order to interpret the complex signals of the human brain and then establish sort of patterns that are repeated No matter which human brain is monitored while they're thinking very specific thoughts.
	So it takes a while to build the database, but as computing capacity increases, this becomes... Doctor, is that... I mean, I understand that the Americans and the Russians both have enormous computing power devoted to recognizing the signature of specific submarines another words uh... the sonar
	it gets a bit of a listen can actually it goes right into the computer and it
	spits out exactly what class in fact what boat it is
	and and and so they know exactly what submarine they're hearing even at a
	great distance are they doing the same thing basically with the
	human mind Listening to it and discerning between as they do is between submarines and whales and other sea life Absolutely, and and this is the probably the most startling Technology that we're going to see in the next holy decade emerge.
	Holy moly So they're mapping the human brain the way it works when it thinks certain things and they're building a mind reading machine More or less.
	In fact, in Air and Space for the 21st Century, which was put together by the Air Force Science Advisory Board a number of years ago, one of their predictions for the next, well now it would be about 15 years, is the idea that you'd be able to actually delete complete memory sets and create synthetic ones and replace them with, in other words, the ultimate training tool for military trainers to would be this type of technology.
	What do you mean, delete memory sets?
	In other words, a complete memory configuration, say a whole portion of your given memory,
	could be...
	Deleted?
	Erased, just like hitting the delete button on a computer.
	Oh my God.
	But again, you're talking about sort of the futuristic views of some of the military
	planners, but when you look at it collectively,
	and that's, I guess that's what we do, is we look at it sort of over the course of time
	and try and put it in one place, and when you look at it from a military perspective,
	the idea of being able to come in and, say, train a technical person in a relatively short period of
	time by being able to do this might be highly advantageous,
	but the problem comes in, and this was voiced by a guy named Smirnoff
	who worked in the...
	Psychocorrection Labs in the Soviet Union, the Mind Control Labs of the former Soviet Union, USSR Academy of Sciences.
	And he actually said that, and others have repeated this, is the idea that you bypass the normal mental filters when information is put in in this way.
	In other words, you don't have that portion of the brain that filters out right and wrong, good and evil.
	Essentially, it's, as he said, Like a commandment of God, it can't be resisted once that information is loaded in.
	So it's very persuasive.
	The ultimate hypnosis, if you will.
	But in terms of reading minds, we'll get to affecting minds here in a second.
	That's really what you're talking about.
	Right.
	In terms of even reading minds, how would you, for example, delineate between, let's say I was in a state where I was really pissed at my boss or my wife or, you know, somebody close to me, you know, raging angry.
	How would they delineate between that And somebody who had intent to do, you know, add a bomb or, you know, whatever all?
	Well, kind of the way they see, at least the first generations of this, is they're really trying to eliminate what they consider to be the highest risk potentials.
	And this is, again, where these technologies are sloppy in their infancy.
	So the answer is they might not delineate?
	They may not be able to finally hone it.
	At least I would not expect the first generation of this kind of device to be able to discern
	one kind of anger from another, but pick up those portions of the brain that are associated
	with anger in most people and be able to deduce somebody is angry.
	So they maybe subject you to the search that the other guy doesn't get.
	But again, this is sort of the beginning, at least in the public literature, of a desired
	objective of military planners for at least two decades.
	Or it might not be anger, doctor.
	It might be a commitment to die for a cause that you believe absolutely in.
	I mean, that kind of thing could be detected.
	Yeah, there's essentially what they're saying is, again, sort of pushing towards this sort of transparency of the human being.
	This is the ultimate Um, lie detector, if you will.
	I mean, it'll determine all kinds of basic information that they already know from the basic mapping of the brain that we already have completed.
	Wow.
	The thing that becomes interesting is when you start to think about not just the idea of reading what's there, but manipulating what's there.
	You know, then where does it, you know, it starts to raise all kinds of cloudy questions, like what happens to the rules of evidence in court proceedings?
	What happens Uh, to training and who decides who educates children and what technologies might be used in the future and who's going to decide what the curriculum is.
	I mean, lots of questions.
	The obligations for crime.
	Oh, unbelievable.
	And you know, when you look at just the whole idea of technologies advancing in these areas and, and the idea that very little regulation constraining the use is being considered, but a great deal is being done right now to allow sort of free reign of a number of organizations to develop Uh, new technologies with even more, uh, more autonomy and less scrutiny.
	Well, aren't these, all these machines, uh, they're going to run right into the Fourth Amendment, aren't they?
	Absolutely.
	You know, you run into a number of, uh, a number of questions start to come up, not just in terms of rules of evidence, but I think about First Amendment liberties that start off with the freedom to think freely.
	Doctor, hold on.
	We're at the top of the hour.
	Boy, talk about running into the fourth man.
	Holy mackerel, if they could look into your mind, or even worse, actually hit the delete key on parts of your memory and your thinking.
	And so those are the things we're working on, huh?
	I'm Art Bell.
	Well, I think it's time to get ready To realize just what I have been
	I have been only half of what I am It's all clear to me now
	Once again, Dr. Nick Begich.
	Dr. Begich, I can't imagine a bigger violation of human rights than either to have your mind read, even under present circumstances, or even worse yet, to have memories deleted.
	That's unimaginable.
	You know, this whole area of what many have now coined the phrase, mind control technology, which is really what it's about.
	We've looked at this issue for years, and just what shows up in the public literature is pretty astounding.
	I mean, New World Vista's air and space for the 21st century, the ancillary volume which was put together by the Science Advisory Board for the Air Force, you know, it's pretty incredible the kinds of things that they expect to see happening.
	Not only the ability to interpret the signals of the brain, but actually be able to even talk to an adversary. In fact, in one
	line of that document, I'll read it because it's pretty pretty clear what it's intended to imply. It says,
	it would also appear possible to create high-fidelity speech in the
	human body, raising the possibility of covert suggestion and psychological direction. Thus, it may
	be possible to talk to selected adversaries
	in a fashion that would be most disturbing to them.
	In other words, they would hear voices?
	Absolutely.
	You know, in the opening hour, there was the guy that was talking about... Yeah, yeah, that's right.
	Oh my God.
	Exactly.
	And this is a pretty standard issue that we get confronted with fairly frequently over the years.
	We hear from people regularly that complain about it.
	And the problem, of course, is figuring out who is Uh, really indeed, uh, being inflicted by perhaps an experimental technology and who is just having, you know, a lot of other problems, but it's pretty tough to discern.
	I mean, we can't figure it out from where we sit.
	Uh, you know, and wouldn't the architects of that technology depend on that difficult, uh, difficulty and discernment.
	Absolutely.
	In fact, if you go back to the 1960s and seventies, when the first experiments in this area were being done, the MKUltra, uh, work, one of the things that was, Concluded from those investigations was they picked out people in ordinary walks of life to see what the effect would be, because that would be the real effect, you know, in an environment where you would use such a technology.
	And when you think about this, you know, recently we've heard the war of asymmetric warfare, this idea of throwing something at the adversary totally unexpected and unanticipated, and we've been saying, you know, the adversary, in this case terrorists, are doing this to us, but in fact This is a double-edged sword.
	Any new technology introduced in the battle environment has those components.
	The idea of unexpected and unanticipated and essentially no way to guard against.
	And we've used those new technologies in every conflict we've been involved in, you know, since probably the Middle Ages when gunpowder was first introduced.
	Well, if you heard my first hour, you heard my comments, I think, about what I believe with respect to the sun's activity.
	Solar cycle, its effect on our magnetic field, and its effect on all of us.
	Yeah, you know, there was a guy that did a study on that some years ago, and it was pretty interesting.
	I can't remember the guy's name, but he went back, you know, all through the various periods of depressions and major conflicts and analyzed that against solar activity and found that there were great correlations.
	That's right.
	And the same is true, you know, about the, if you think about the sun's effect on On the moon, when the light is polarized, when it's reflected off the moon, and the idea of lunacy, or the word lunatic, coming from associations with the moon.
	You know, that's statistically borne out in modern studies of the effects of lunar activity.
	Oh, I know.
	And again, you're talking about really solar energy bouncing off of the moon, being polarized, and then coming back.
	And perhaps that's even more of a dramatic effect, the idea of polarized light.
	uh... affecting uh... the is perhaps so but uh... i hear uh...
	we are talking about
	specifically designed high-intensity weapons which are basically when you think about it uh... using the
	same sort of technological effect
	yeah i think that's correct because one of the things when you look at for
	instance going back to heart for a moment when you look at what hearts
	intended to do is modify the ionosphere this area of of of our environment
	is responsible for clean communications when solar activity
	disturbs the ionosphere those communications don't don't take effect
	that's right a lot of strange things can happen with power grids and
	sensitive electronics but the idea of being able to deliberately do this and then
	perhaps having not just uh... effects on machines but also effects
	on human beings in fact
	uh... there was a uh... chinese report that came out some months ago that that
	was released about a simple intelligence agency before all of this uh... nonsense arose with with uh... it just
	the whole approach to terrorism
	When they were still releasing data, one of the things that came out was a Chinese sort of initiative in new technologies along these same lines, some targeting just hardware, some human beings, or the modern software, and then some a combination of each.
	And energy weapons really are the essence of not just surveillance technology, but deliberate replacements for ordnance with a specific idea in mind.
	And one of those comes out, you know, again in earlier press reports on these kinds of issues, one of the things that came up with the whole development of what are called non-lethal technology shows up with a Quote, this is from a paper called Non-Lethal Technology and Air Power, a Winning Combination for Strategic Paralysis, by Air Chronicles, written in, I guess it was 97.
	And what it says is, if we use non-lethal technology to achieve paralysis, eliminate unintentional killing, and erase signs of visible destruction, then perhaps in some situations we can rid the news of sensationalism without a riveting story to tell the medium.
	Media may be silenced, unquote.
	That's pretty disturbing when you think of the motivation behind some of this stuff.
	That's disturbing, alright.
	I mean, just the whole idea of creating sort of neat killing events that don't create the clutter of destruction.
	I mean, that's basically what it's saying.
	This idea that we can somehow kill politely, I suppose, is what's denoted there.
	And that disturbs me, I think, more than anything.
	I mean, when we wrote Earth rising, the revolution, it was written as a warning for exactly the circumstances we find ourselves in today.
	The idea that fear and panic has gripped the country, gripped the globe in a way where people are running to what they think is safety, when in fact, if we give up all of these things, if we sort of set them aside and accept this sort of big brother mentality, Then maybe these guys really did win.
	By the way, I know you comment a lot on politics, so let me ask you about this.
	Tonight, we received today, yesterday now, my time zone, we received another warning from our own government of something potentially coming or about to happen.
	Not specific.
	It's never specific.
	It just sort of says, they sort of say, well, Here's a warning.
	We have credible, non-specific information that something bad may be about to happen.
	What do you think of the concept of saying that?
	What does that accomplish?
	Well, it doesn't accomplish a lot.
	I mean, a non-specific threat basically creates, again, an environment of fear.
	And I can tell you, when you look at What occurs with human beings in an environment of fear?
	If you look at the brain activity, just in basic terms, the brain activity of humans in fear and panic, you cannot make rational decisions.
	Odds are, if you make any rational decisions, it will be pure chance.
	Oh no, and listen, people who are either angry, anger masks rationality of course, and fear masks it as well.
	Both of those cause you to make a completely irrational decisions and uh... you've got a sort of recognize you're
	in that state and refrain from making
	important decisions right in this is again why i i i think uh... writers and
	researchers who have taken the subjects on a tried to take them on an
	environment of calm rather than environment
	of of uncertainty and that's you know when you look at the the rush through legislation
	you know one of the big things with this uh... anti-terrorism bill which i
	guess they renamed the patriot the patriot and help
	and you know the thing about it is you know there there is a big call for
	sunset provisions so that they would be relooked at in two thousand four i
	believe a two thousand five The problem was, even with the sunset provisions in the bill, there were a number of sections excluded from those sunset provisions.
	You know, those excluded sections are important for maintaining at least the level of civil liberties we once enjoyed in this country.
	Well, okay.
	Remember to say good and close to the phone for me.
	What specifically in that bill Do you feel like we ought to be most concerned about?
	The authority to share grand jury information.
	This is information before there's an indictment, before there's a sense of guilt.
	The procedures for disclosure of information are not sunsetted under this provision.
	The employment of translators, that's understandable.
	Designation of judges and new courts.
	The idea and scope of subpoenas for records of electronic communications aren't sunsetted in this.
	Some clarifications as to scope are really unclear.
	The authority for delaying notice of the execution of a warrant is not sunsetted under this provision.
	And the delays can be as long as 90 days.
	Modification of authorities relating to the use of pen registers and traps and trace devices.
	This is using new technologies for electronic communications.
	The idea of single jurisdiction search warrants for terrorism, that's probably understandable.
	Trade sanctions, that's probably understandable, but the assistance to law enforcement agencies is ill-defined, and probably the biggest, most glaring is any ongoing investigation, but that's not well-defined.
	So does that mean every group that we tag or name in the course of the next four years that we say are now open to investigation, they're not going to censor under this provision, which could be every single Okay, so then with liberal interpretation, they can almost do anything.
	Absolutely.
	And the thing about it is the agencies granted this authority, the Central Intelligence Agency
	and the FBI are agencies that periodically, and even in the weeks before the September
	11th event, were being called on the carpet for inappropriate use of their power and authority
	and poor management and mismanagement of evidence and other considerations in a number of major
	investigations.
	These are the very same people now that we have vested additional powers, additional
	ability to reach into our private lives without additional accountability.
	And that's another major flaw in this legislation, the accountability factor.
	All right, if we're going to give them more rules and regulations in terms of what it's
	going to do to us in terms of privacy, then let's hold them to a higher standard of accountability,
	not a lower standard of accountability.
	If American civil liberties are being set aside, then let's ask those charged with responsibility
	regarding those civil liberties to be accountable for what mistakes they might make in the process.
	Well, I don't know how you set that balance up properly.
	In other words, it...
	If you are going to find the bad guys, you're going to end up breaking some eggs for the omelette.
	There's no question about it.
	You're going to end up violating some civil liberties.
	How do you get?
	There's no way around it.
	I think there's, you know, I think there's at least at some point, I agree that we have to sort of recognize the position we're in.
	But at the same time, this is where sunset provisions in these laws, you have the Congress telling us they're there when in fact, They're not there.
	You know, they're there only in part.
	I think those are the important provisions that need to exist.
	Well, yeah, but the nature of warfare, Dr. Begich, has changed.
	I mean, it really, really changed this time around, and it's liable to continue that change.
	Conventional warfare against a country like ours is futile.
	It's not going to happen.
	They're going to come at us in different ways, and so we need different ways to protect ourselves.
	And I agree with that, and I think that's again where those different ways as we look at each of these things need to be developed in concert with good, smart, domestic law.
	Let's look at the anti-terrorism implications again.
	You know, recently the anti-terrorism bill was passed that had a whole lot to do with the use of the internet for terrorist acts, but you know, for other forms of harassment laws that protect American citizens still don't exist on
	the books in most states, including this one, where a person can
	take your identity, set up a website, do all kinds of things in your name, and there's absolutely
	nothing you can do about it. I know, and I cannot understand why there has not been
	some sort of regulation or enforcement in that area. And, you know, and some of us,
	me included, have been victimized by that very event.
	Sure, sure, sure.
	And even since September 11th.
	And you know, if you call the FBI and complain today, as a private citizen, for that kind of an infraction... Good luck.
	Yeah, they don't have time to even return your call.
	And the sad story is, is who's watching the rest of the hen house of the United States right now, in terms of federal law enforcement, And it's getting a little bit scant in terms of the other things.
	The other issue that comes up with a highly surveyed society, which is essentially what is happening, it's not necessarily the sophisticated terrorist that becomes the headline, but they'll actually be targeting probably less sophisticated individuals which will give the appearance of some sense of I know this.
	I went to the Super Bowl with my wife last year and when we got back we found out we had all been scanned.
	That our faces had been scanned as we came in and apparently this is a growing, really quickly growing technology and I wonder how good it is.
	In other words, if you were in some way disguised, would that fool a camera?
	Yes, actually, they're pretty good.
	I mean, the percentage is still of failure is high as well.
	I don't want to overstate their capacity.
	In Great Britain, where they're used extensively, and again, Earth Rising talks a lot about what happened in Great Britain with the development of this technology, first for crime neighborhoods and then in a broader scale.
	But they're used there, they're used in neighborhoods.
	In Florida, they're also used in a number of neighborhoods in terms of developing the technology around the country, but the Secret Service actually is going to be monitoring the Super Bowl again this year with technology.
	I assume they're going to use the same again because it was fairly effective.
	They were able to pick out felons and the technology, if you get a good straight-on shot, they can even go through facial hair and disguises of various kinds because essentially you're picking out Really detailed markers in terms of the facial markers and comparing the photographic images and so on well They claim that in this last attempt at the Super Bowl They didn't make any arrests as a result of it So I would take it it was more of a test of the technology right and this this has been again the idea of sort of scanning a crowd and
	Think about it in terms of the evolution of some of the, again, why I'm concerned about civil liberties, the evolution of these non-lethal technologies and surveillance technologies, and then the deployment of those into regional police forces for things like monitoring protests, like the WTO.
	Right.
	The idea of having your face scanned in a crowd when you're assembling peaceably, and the concern comes up when you look at the original protocols from 1994 between Department of Defense I don't know if I'm feeling better.
	with the development of non-lethals under a priority where those that could be used both
	domestically for policing purposes and overseas. All right, doctor, hold it right there. We're at
	the bottom of the hour and we'll be right back. I'm Art Bell. I don't know if I'm feeling better.
	The other side of the argument is, you know, I haven't done anything wrong.
	I don't want to be terrorized and if checking my face will catch somebody,
	the checking face is, and maybe I shouldn't mind if mine is checked.
	The question is how far it goes.
	We'll be right back.
	You're no good, you're no good, you're no good.
	Baby, you're no good.
	Once again, all the way from the great state of Alaska, Dr.
	Nick Biggage.
	Dr. Begich, you're back on again.
	Great.
	All right.
	I, you know, I just, I have such mixed feelings about all of this.
	I was saying as we went into the break, you know, there is the attitude that I haven't done anything wrong.
	I'm an honest, legal citizen.
	At least fairly so.
	And, you know, I can handle having my face scanned to see if I'm a bad guy, a terrorist, or a felon.
	And I'm not worried about it, because I haven't done anything wrong.
	You know, there is that attitude about this kind of thing.
	And that's an important point.
	I think a well-made point.
	And just before the break, when we were talking about this joint protocol between Justice and the Department of Defense, One of the things that it says that people that will be subject to this technology are those that are opposed to government policy or adversaries of the government as are defined loosely in that document.
	The thing is, it's anyone that opposes American policy.
	That would be anyone that stands up and says, hey look, I don't like what our government is doing, I think it ought to be a different way.
	That happens to be the very cornerstone of this democratic republic, the idea that we can Openly dissent, have those kind of conversations and result in something.
	Or thoughts.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Or thoughts in particular.
	The things that lead to being able to have those specific ideas.
	But let's take a look at that for a second.
	And let's look at where the technology goes.
	If you start to think about the idea that how many times in our lives have we thought something that we actually didn't do because it was wrong.
	You're right.
	I mean, who can count those times, right?
	Now, all of a sudden, now your activity that goes on in the brain is suspect, because you might have thoughts that you don't act on.
	Now, that is, to me, the greatest of invasions.
	The idea that even within the privacy of your home is one thing, within the privacy of your mind is another.
	And now, in this modern age, the digital doorway to who you are in terms of how much information is housed about you outside of your home.
	That, you know, that's a whole other concept that, you know, that the law and the technology sort of haven't kept up with each other.
	But how we approach these things should be with a whole lot of discussion to make sure private rights are protected.
	In other words, those rights to keep people from stealing our identities, from doing things that are damaging to us because the technology allows them to and the law doesn't prevent them from it.
	This, again, it doesn't just work with governments, it works with individuals.
	I mean, let's look at Just technologies for influencing behavior.
	One of the things that we point out in the mind control section of Earth Rising is this idea of what are called silent subliminals.
	The very thing used in the Gulf War for creating fear and panic by putting messages or at least emotional signals on the broadcasts of Muslim songs and prayers going into the battle environment.
	uh... in the same technology was used in japan and there's actually united states patent for
	uh... putting silent subliminals on the music in department stores for dissuading
	shoplifters well the same might be used for encouraging shopping rather
	than to fit the power of the opera of course how
	how effective As a matter of interest, these subliminals, for example, in discouraging shoplifting, they must have some stats by now on how much less shoplifting goes on where there are subliminals versus not.
	Well, what their conclusions were in the articles that we quote from were that it was, you know, it was significant and dramatic effect.
	They didn't give a precise percentage, but now take into consideration What's already in the public literature about creating
	specific states of emotion within the human brain from external signals?
	Whether it be modulated sound signals, right or whether it be flashing lights or strobes
	or a combination of sound and light signals or even even signals
	Embedded within a radio broadcast as an example Radio or TV.
	I know many, many years ago, it seems to me at the beginning of television, there was some commercial use of subliminals until it became outlawed.
	Is that correct?
	That's the story as it goes, but you know I've yet to track down the laws specific on that issue, and when you look at sort of what's happened since, and this is again what we found in researching some of the laws up here in Alaska on telecommunications.
	The industry hasn't kept up, the laws haven't kept up.
	What's illegal to do on a phone line is legal to do on the internet, again because of poor definitions within law and technologies didn't exist when laws were written.
	When you're talking about Subliminal specific words or phrases embedded on a screen.
	That effect is known as a 25th frame effect today.
	Saying that every 25th frame in a movie sequence can create this sort of really deep hypnotic almost like ability to impress a person.
	What they did in Russia was demonstrated on a show on Canadian broadcasting called Undercurrents.
	February 7th of 99 was a program on mind control where they actually showed Russian
	scientists using this using computer screens essentially in suggestion that the
	same thing could be driven through the internet if somebody had the desire and
	the interest.
	By the way I've been watching a lot of CBC lately. They are a very, very good news outlet.
	Yeah, I mean in terms of information there's a lot out there but at the same time
	in terms of alternative media a lot of what's reported in the mainstream is reported very,
	I mean, look at the mainstream looking at HAARP today, where it's been in at least in many people's radar screens for six years.
	Ah, sure.
	All these six years we've been talking about it on this show, and finally it hits MSNBC.
	That's right.
	That's right.
	Something I said going into the break, and that is that All of these things that we've been talking about on this program, or many of them, that have sounded like silly science fiction for years, are now well in use and absolutely true.
	So you have to be very careful.
	I mean, I know that what you're talking about right now is research underway, or even in use.
	Right.
	In terms of, there's an article, a really excellent one, it's put out again by the U.S.
	Army War College, and it's called uh... the mind has no firewalls and it's you know it's a
	couple years old now but this
	this got into a lot of the same uh... technology one of the things that they
	suggested uh... was that you could use any
	kind of uh...
	uh... carrier for creating huge effects in terms of just emotional states if that's
	what you were after in fact that's much more
	easily achieved and say something is complex does a specific voice or a
	or thought or something of this nature.
	Well, you just brought up something interesting.
	The mind has no firewall.
	What an interesting statement.
	Fine and true at the moment, but as these technologies develop, surely somebody out there is going to try and figure out a firewall.
	Oh, sure.
	I mean, for instance, for microwaves, one of the simple things for microwaves that works fairly effectively is metal Fine metal mesh screen as an example, but but depending again upon the carrier, and this is where wherein lies The trick is when you can use any number of carriers for bringing signals in Then you need very sophisticated filters for keeping them out in fact going again to the program broadcast in Canada you know this this idea of
	filters or chips embedded on computers not for tracking you know your in going
	and out going which is what we keep hearing about but for for keeping people out from doing exactly that
	this technology is available now but not it's not installed in computers as a matter of routine
	although the technology exists to do exactly that to figure out these
	what about tracking of humans how far has GPS come in and And I ask that because I read a recent book, a very good one, in which a CIA agent had a tracking device embedded in his... surgically embedded in his body.
	Uh, a device that would allow a GPS satellite to, uh, to track his very precise whereabouts.
	How close to something like that are we?
	We, we have that.
	We've had it since at least 1989, according, again, to a document, uh, the Revolution Military Affairs, uh, in Conflict Short of War, and the, and the Revolution Military Affairs, which was put together by the U.S.
	Army War College by Metz, and I forget the other author, but, They talked about a transponder technology for locating an individual, but the thing that's happened since then, now they can monitor heart rate, breathing, stress situations, you know, the amount of sophistication of what you can pack into circuitry today, and then to get the body to accept it by the merger of essentially biological material and electronic substrates, perhaps even your own at some point.
	So, there are people walking around so implanted today?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	In fact, there's a whole lot of pets implanted this way these days.
	Oh, there are, but that's kind of a more passive technology.
	I'm talking about the ability to track somebody globally.
	Yeah, and you can do it in a number of ways.
	An implantable technology is one, and the U.S.
	Army War College, when they wrote about it, they talked about it in terms of first military personnel going into combat situations so they could be located if wounded or hurt.
	And certainly, if I were going into Afghanistan right now, I might want that option, provided I could get it out at the other end of the war.
	But, you know, we know about what goes into the skin of military personnel.
	They don't usually have much control of when it goes in and when it comes out.
	The other issue that comes up in that same document is the potential use of this same technology for business travelers.
	Of course, they suggest they wouldn't turn it on unless there were some conflict.
	The problem with all of that, it gets right back to where we are today, is first you talk about, and we can talk about the smart cards and the military personnel using them, and then we can talk about including some biometric material or information, whether it's a thumbprint or iris scan, or even a voice print, interestingly enough, is something that can be captured, and under the new roving wiretap rules, you can actually pick out A person's voice, if they transit monitored systems and lose 4 to 20 seconds of voice information.
	Does that mean that, for example, as you pass from cell to cell, if you're using a cell phone or, I don't know, even if you go to a pay phone, some computer somewhere is tracking you no matter where you go?
	If they're interested in your specific voice, personhood, and your voice is an attribute of that personhood, And it's programmed into the echelon systems or other systems that are available to the intelligence community.
	They can, every time you pick up a phone anywhere on the planet where digital signal transits those systems, which is pretty extensive, almost everything, there's a high likelihood that they're going to pick out where you called, when you called, and who you called.
	And whether it's a cell phone or a landline, Just on voice biometric information.
	And now with the roving wiretaps rules, that can be applied readily to that kind of intelligence gathering.
	So on one hand, we could consider it a horrendous intrusion to our civil rights.
	On the other hand, it's an incredibly powerful weapon against the kind of thing that happened in New York on September 11th.
	Absolutely, and the thing to go back to, that I go back to often when I think about the balancing question here, is a statement by Zbigniew Brzezinski in his book Between Two Ages, which was written almost three decades ago now, and it was a predictor for where we'd be today, and it's quite accurate, dead accurate, and what he said is about technology, if I can paraphrase, is that once it developed to the point of Uh, being able to control political outcomes, no matter, you know, who was in power, liberal or conservative, they're interested in using that technology to further their political ends, uh, would probably, um, go first instead of good judgment to restrain.
	I think all of that, when you think about it, technology is used against us in many,
	many different ways, whether it's sophisticated spin of media and press releases or advertising
	or now even more sophisticated means, actual technologies that can bend the emotions and
	reframe the mind.
	When you think about the sort of two-edged sword side of the story is there are some
	tremendous human potential applications here that could be quite good if in the right hands
	and with the right intent.
	There's always a two-edged sword.
	Absolutely.
	The thing is what we also know about the advancement of technology is for all of us to keep up
	our capacity as human beings needs to dramatically change as well.
	And we're pretty adaptive as creative creatures.
	So these adaptations of our technology to make us perhaps more fully what we're possibly capable of, Those are the exciting parts of the mind test.
	Well, one thing seems clear.
	Complain as we might about it.
	We're not going to stop it, are we?
	No, it's going to move forward.
	It's a question of how technology is used.
	And in today's world, what makes government strong is, in fact, their technologies.
	And what makes democracy strong in this age is going to be the knowledge of the average citizen of those technologies and how they might rightly be applied.
	Americans, Dr. Begich, are a very Stubborn, willful people, and they would never allow their government to simply impose these apparent violations of our privacy.
	But in fact, the way it's likely to happen is the people themselves will demand it, won't they?
	Yeah, and this is again, you know, it goes right back to what we were writing two years ago.
	It's exactly how we set it.
	In fact, that's the You know, the old story, you know, when you go back in history is whenever security's been at risk, people are willing, you know, or whether it's food and starvation or whether it's the threat of warfare.
	And it's still an event that's probably less likely to kill you, at least at this stage, than a traffic accident or medical malpractice, for that matter, in any given year.
	But the point is, we have a tremendous environment of fear in which we're ready to sort of look the other way as a whole lot of things change in the
	idea that well you know if we don't have anything to hide well what if
	somebody disagrees with what you fundamentally believe as a human being as an
	individual person think that you're free to believe
	uh... but someone disagrees and thinks that's a threat what who's going to draw
	those lines and is going to make those determinations and this is where things done in in secret and and and
	closed doors and without accountability
	uh... read contempt of the average you know there are many who believe that
	there is an intentional manipulation of events to bring about exactly this clamor
	uh... so that this technology can be implemented do you go that far
	well i you know i whether you have to have a chicken in the egg equation
	I think people that are basically insecure and paranoid, and militaries tend to be that way, because that's kind of their job, I guess, in one sense.
	It is, sort of, yes.
	Yeah, and so, you know, there's a lot that's maybe given up in the course of that, and sometimes I think it's like mission loss, but the point is, I think we can really drift a long way in the wrong direction at this particular time, because Of just the circumstances that we're in.
	Yes, but these people imagine these vast conspiracies or orchestrating events.
	No, I don't see that, because I know too much about government to know how inefficient they truly are.
	I'm with you.
	I mean, seriously, they really are.
	But in terms of people's motives, you know, and I kind of see this in both ways.
	I think there's a lot of good people doing a million really good things, and whether we recognize it or not, We're intricately connected and if you're on the outside
	looking in you'd swear it was a conspiracy And the same can be said for those people that are creating
	evil in the world. What is your latest book?
	The latest is earth rising the revolution which was written now almost two years ago
	And we're just coming out with some sort of a follow-on that we've had on a delay since September
	Basically to try and integrate some of the new new stuff that's coming up, but it's not yet available not yet
	It's rising earth rising is available now in bookstores and amazon.com and so forth right absolutely in fact
	That particular title every single subject. We've covered tonight
	...was covered in that two years ago, and all of these subjects now are certainly making the mainstream and have... All right, well, we'll say more about that in a moment.
	Willing to take some calls?
	Absolutely.
	Well, they're ringing off the hook, so we'll do that.
	Stay right where you are.
	Dr. Nick Begich is my guest.
	Pretty chilling stuff, huh?
	Or does it make you feel safer?
	I'm Arbel.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	Calls for Dr. Begich coming up next and it might be you.
	My sweet love, mmm my love, mmm my love.
	I really want to see you, really want to be with you.
	I've had him long enough.
	Dr. Nick Begich is now all yours.
	Dr. Begich, if you're ready, there's lots of people want to talk to you.
	All set?
	I'm all set.
	Let's go.
	All right.
	Let's rock.
	First time color line, you are on the air with Dr. Nick Begich way up north in Alaska.
	Yeah, hi Art.
	Hello.
	Hey, I just wanted to share my experience.
	All right.
	I was a victim to the mind control.
	Oh?
	And yeah, I know for sure that somebody was actually reading my mind.
	How do you know that?
	Because there were others that commented like, hey, he's a mind reader.
	And I don't know, it's like now I'm afraid to do anything wrong at all, because like I know that other people You're saying an individual?
	Yeah, an individual that I was actually friends with for a while, who I believe is maybe in a mafia or something like that.
	Maybe a CIA agent or something like this.
	Maybe, but actually that does bring up another avenue of research.
	We know the government for years and years, Doctor, investigated You know, various methods, including remote viewing, of discerning things with human assets.
	Right, right.
	In fact, again, you know, sort of the area that I think probably the most disturbing of all, when you look at all of this, is what's already occurred, not even with the laws already on the books.
	There was a comment made by Secretary of Energy O'Leary when she was in that position, and her suggestion was that Over a half a million Americans have been subject to some form of human experimentation over a 40-year period without their consent.
	A half a million is what they acknowledged publicly, and who knows, you know, to what extent it went beyond that.
	But mind control technologies were subject of congressional investigations during the mid-70s.
	It resulted in a thorough review of the Central Intelligence Agency.
	Unfortunately, a lot of the main documents uh... worship were shredded at that time
	of a chemical uh... means for controlling people's behavior were being
	looked at including hallucinogenic like lsd one of the things that wasn't well understood then became
	out years later through freedom of information act request
	uh... made by a by a researcher uh... back east again in parlin gerard got
	them uh... and they showed the financial transactions in the
	accounting department central intelligence agency
	associated with those early programs and it was the virtually electromagnetic
	component by going back to use of electromagnetic fields are off
	waiting field about to change human behavior even back to the nineteen
	sixties Wow.
	That and LSD, you know, they said Well, yes, we did it.
	It was wrong.
	They compensated some people who were victims of all of that and basically said, and we don't do that kind of thing anymore.
	well you know that the reality is and and it's come out periodically and again
	this probably of all the things that i've written over the years this section
	of of earth rising was the most disturbing because the reality is is periodically another report gets leaked
	whether it's of prisoners or whether it's uh... minority populations i
	mean here last year in the budget the federal budget they settled with
	indigenous alaskan and natives for radioactive iodine experiments
	a few years ago was black men in the south east that were experimented on with surplus to see how they
	would a decay over a period of decades
	I mean, there were biological experiments in the San Francisco Bay Area.
	Absolutely.
	In fact, you can look at the history and the target populations in many cases were the most vulnerable orphans, mentally retarded, handicapped prisoners, pregnant women.
	Absolutely.
	In fact, just in terms of General experimentation, the reality is periodically it does surface and it gets found out and somebody's hands get slapped and they eventually drift right back in the same pattern once again.
	And this is the fear of many of the researchers in these areas when you consider You know, it's hard to tell whether the last caller was, you know, talking about a technology that really was deployed against them or whether it was something else, and it's almost impossible to tell with this type of technology when it's used, and that's...
	That's from the standpoint of an operator.
	And actually, doctor, no matter who would claim this, no matter who would claim, you know, my mind has been messed with, it's been read or it's been affected in some way, they would come off sounding crazy as a loon.
	Absolutely.
	And the fact of the matter is you can prove, well, you can easily prove the technology.
	Just in the public domain, there's over three dozen US patents showing the evolution of this technology from the early 60s to its present state.
	And if you look at the military literature on the subject, and just what they confirm has already been achieved, it's pretty fantastic.
	And if you go back to sort of the earlier writings, I was trying to find that quote during one of the breaks from Brzezinski.
	And here's what he said, and it was specifically about mind control technologies, and he predicted this in 1973.
	He said, I foresee the time when we shall have the means and therefore inevitably the temptation to manipulate the behavior and intellectual functioning of all the people through environmental and biochemical manipulation of the brain, unquote.
	I mean, this is, and what he based it on was the work being done at UCLA at the time with modulations Uh, that would create changes in emotional state.
	And one of the suggestions by J.F.
	Gordon MacDonald at the time, uh, was that if you could ever figure out how to electronically stroke the ionosphere in just the right way, you could manipulate the behavior of populations over large geographic areas.
	And that's, uh, interestingly enough, exactly what HAARP does almost 30 years later.
	It certainly is.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Nick Biggage in Alaska.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Um, I've been personally experimented on and, uh, been exposed to the technology.
	I called last, uh, year, Dr. Begich was on and, um, I called but I got disconnected.
	Well, how do you know you've been experimented on?
	A year ago, uh, a year and a half ago, I was at a concert and, uh, during the concert I not only seemed to have a perceptual shift but, um, I also heard What I would say would be voices in my head.
	It wasn't disturbing to me, it was surprising.
	It didn't make me afraid of what was going on, but since that time, I've had very strange experiences after that concert.
	I've had phone calls that are always unknown number, unknown name, but they're just tones and they beep at certain frequencies over and over.
	I've had a black Suburban drive by my home a year ago in the winter that shined a strobe
	light into my window.
	It was a pulse light at 4.20 in the morning.
	I woke up from a strange dream and my computer hard drive started compiling for some reason
	and I looked up and a black Suburban with cab lights shined a strobe light through the
	window.
	I was in a hurry to get to my home and I was in a hurry to get to my computer and I was
	in a hurry to get to my computer and I was in a hurry to get to my computer and I was
	I think that some people are more advanced in a spiritual way and I think that those people may be able to help in the coming times and I think that those people are being targeted specifically for group control effects.
	And you believe you're one of those people?
	I believe it has a correlation to that and I'm still seeking the truth as much as possible.
	I've never Really had anything like this happen.
	Uh, I've gone about and done a normal day, you know, a normal day's work and my life.
	But since that concert and since the specific experience where I heard certain tones and noises and I felt my body heat up and, uh, different perceptions happened.
	Um, and continuing until this day, different things are happening.
	I see myself as a target in an experiment or a control atmosphere.
	You may well be.
	Very interesting, doctor.
	If something like this was going to be done, a large gathering like the Super Bowl or a
	concert or some big event that would have many people at it would be a likely proper
	stage for an experiment of this sort, wouldn't it?
	I don't know necessarily.
	If you want to get some control or some kind of a real effect, you'd want to be able to
	direct it and know who you're directing at and follow up and see what the effects were.
	You'd want some advanced information on the person's behavior and so on to try and figure
	out whether they were deviations from their norm.
	I think a lot of the things that we get this basic kind of report probably a couple times
	a week by mail, by phone.
	In some manner, the fact is you can't sort out the fact from the fiction in this sense.
	Everyone is sincere in what they're reporting and what they're observing.
	Obviously, they're in some kind of very horrible situation in most cases.
	The trouble with all this is that when we get somebody who really is a victim of something like this, they're going to sound exactly like the last caller.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And the problem is you can't sort it out.
	And the reality is everyone that has objected to this technology, and if you go back to where lots of reports like this were being made and people were starting to look at this issue, You know, it does parallel, in some cases, the timelines of some of this.
	But, you know, you go back to, you mentioned the radio, and some people said about 1% of the population at the time said that it was affecting them in a negative way.
	And then, you know, years later, we discover this phenomena called the Taos Hum, which affects about 1% of the population from all reports.
	So, you know, who knows, you know, what we might, you know, be seeing as a result of Of other things within our natural environment that are changing.
	But who is to say that some technological developments do not affect perhaps 1% or better?
	Right.
	Of the population.
	Uh, for example, they are studying the effects of microwaves on human beings.
	Right.
	Uh, just casual, uh, dispersed, uh, point-to-point microwaves here on Earth.
	And, uh, the effect of, uh, electrical, uh, a lot, uh, have, uh, big voltage electrical lines.
	Right.
	All, all of these, uh, EM fields as they interact with, with human beings, along with all of the added chemicals that we add to our environments and to our bodies, And everyone reacts a little bit differently.
	So, you know, what might be occurring and probably is occurring, and certainly there's research to show it in a number of fields, the idea that the interaction of these things are causing, you know, health effects that really are taking time to develop.
	But, you know, you look at things that are showing up presently as, you know, the various forms of cancers, stress and stress-related illness, cardiovascular disease.
	And if you think about electromagnetic fields and just all the energy that surrounds us daily, I'll tell you when you really notice it, it's when power failures occur.
	And it's not just the quiet of the moment, but actually you almost feel like a big, letting out a deep breath, just like your whole body sort of contracts.
	And what that is, that sensation is, is the actual body no longer in a stress situation, trying to find equilibrium, balancing against All right.
	Real quick question.
	of energy and that energy affects people in lots of different ways, whether it's deliberate
	or whether it just creates chemical imbalances that lead to other kinds of problems.
	Remarkable.
	You're right about the power failure.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Nick Begich.
	Hello.
	Good evening, Dr. Begich.
	Yes, sir.
	Real quick question.
	You had said that, I guess, at the height of the harp, that they were looking at ERP
	ERP was going to be what, a billion watts?
	Will be, yes.
	That's right.
	Okay.
	And then you had said that, uh, bouncing off of the, I'm not sure which, which one of the, uh, ionosphere.
	Okay, off the ionosphere.
	We're looking at a, um, a bounce, uh, uh, as it came back off that, uh, basically you, you, it was, um, uh, affected, uh, at, uh, What, a thousand times more?
	What it was is striking the upper limits of the ionosphere and lower limits of the magnetosphere.
	Stanford research showed that you could actually create a VLF signal amplification by about a thousand times, tapping... So you're looking at a trillion watts?
	Huge potential, absolutely.
	And here's the other consideration that goes along with this sort of, um, the way in which HAARP is intended to be used is by sending energy through of the magnetic lines of forces waveguides going
	normally that energy is going from the South Pole to the North Pole
	but as waveguides this energy can sort of corkscrew its way around
	those magnetic lines of force working their way to the South Pole creating
	the over-the-horizon effects in certain applications for missile shields
	particularly that was what was envisioned.
	Okay, well, when you're talking at that kind of, that type of wattage, what are we talking about when it comes back off of the ionosphere back towards Earth?
	Okay, we're talking about some different applications.
	In this case, when Stanford observed it with just standard VLF transmitters, what they saw come back to the Earth was almost what they described as an electron particle rain.
	With the kind of energy that's possible with HAARP, Um, they really don't know what the full effect is, because one of the things that's pointed out is the idea of creating instabilities, and then trying to discover where the stabilities sort of reform, and that's actually stated almost in those exact... What are the specific probable biological effects of something that strong?
	Again, depending on, you know, what they do at the moment and what areas it covers, it could be very disruptive to DNA structures.
	One of the concerns as well with transmitters of this size is creating a hole in the ionosphere allows various kinds of particle streams to enter the environment that are screened out otherwise.
	And this again is, you know, one of the concerns expressed by scientists who have opposed HAARP.
	The other consideration, and one that's kind of interesting, is It's again, it sort of depends on how it's used.
	The idea of creating chemical reactions in the upper atmosphere was one of the earlier thoughts with HAARP.
	The idea of being able to, for instance, trigger those reactions that might lead to the creation of ozone or replenishment of ozone or knocking out specific pollutants were actually mentioned in the original patents and have never been, as we understand it, explored.
	By anyone associated with HAARP, which is unfortunate because this is a major problem leading to a lot of other problems on the planet right now.
	By the way, I'm sure it's nothing but, uh...
	Just a little of the subject material affecting me, but I keep hearing these clicks on the phones.
	My lines, I am positive, are open for all kinds of scrutiny.
	You know, if it's a tap, it's an awfully crude tap.
	You're not supposed to hear tapped phones.
	No, you're not.
	And this is a dedicated single line line, so I know it's not any other extensions in my house, but It's interesting in just the way, you know, sort of all of this evolves.
	You know, the work that I do used to be called investigative reporting, and about two years ago, the military coined a phrase called accumulators, where people who kind of peruse the public databases, whether they're libraries or internet or the combination of all kinds of things.
	Well, that's how the government does it.
	Yeah, except, you know, and we've been very careful.
	I mean, we never touch and never have accepted any classified materials, but just... Well, no, but you can come up with classified conclusions by reading lots of public materials and just gathering them together.
	Absolutely, and that's, I guess, what we specialize in and what gets the story out, and hopefully not in a destructive way, but a helpful way that Let me get that debate happening.
	All right, Doctor.
	Hold on.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	We'll be right back.
	Another half hour with you and Dr. Baggage.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Well this is Coast to Coast AM in the nighttime.
	Music Once again, here's Dr. Nick Begich.
	Doctor, welcome back.
	Well, thanks.
	Okay, so many people waiting.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Nick Begich.
	Where are you, please?
	Good morning.
	I'm calling from St.
	Louis, Missouri.
	Yes, ma'am.
	Yes, I'd like to ask the doctor.
	Years ago, I saw a movie called The Manchurian Candidate.
	Right.
	And I was wondering, it sounded like, appeared to be science fiction, but now I'd like to ask you, is it possible To create a human killing machine?
	You know, that's a good question, and I believe the answer is probably yes.
	In fact, the likelihood of the technology already being evolved to that point is pretty good, just given what we've already seen in the open literature and what's already acknowledged by military and academics.
	The idea that you can create Hi, I'm Sheila.
	I'm just visiting here.
	The conscious mind, the part that filters out what is right and what is wrong, that's
	really pretty much universal in terms of people working in this field, knowing that that can
	be accomplished.
	All right.
	As the clicks on the line continue, we'll click one.
	Wellesley the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Nick Begichai.
	All right.
	Now you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I'm Sheila.
	I'm just visiting here in California.
	Yes.
	And I'm in the medical field in Ireland.
	And I think that there's a softening up in general of all the nations as far as getting
	rid of portions of the brain or the mind or whatever.
	And I think that there's a softening up in general of all the nations as far as getting
	rid of portions of the brain or the mind or whatever.
	And I think that there's a softening up in general of all the nations as far as getting
	rid of portions of the brain or the mind or whatever.
	And I think that there's a softening up in general of all the nations as far as getting
	rid of portions of the brain or the mind or whatever.
	And I think that there's a softening up in general of all the nations as far as getting
	rid of portions of the brain or the mind or whatever.
	And I think that there's a softening up in general of all the nations as far as getting
	This is being done through chemical lobotomy, ECT, electric shock therapy, you might call it hypnosis, all these different things that have been around almost forever through the field of psychiatry.
	And I feel with these people already being softened up and then exposed to what Hark is intending, not only are they going to remove past portions of memory, but they're also going to remove any desire for a future, because you're going to have a world full of zombies.
	Do you see where I'm coming from?
	Well, it's certainly one possible result of the technology gone wrong, right, Doctor?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	That's sort of the worst case.
	A Brave New World, you know, sort of revisited.
	In fact, that was one of Huxley's last major essays, was an essay on sort of where the technology was going.
	And, you know, at that time he figured we were 40 years ahead.
	That was 1959 when that was published.
	And, you know, when you look at sort of where we are today, it would boggle the mind.
	but the idea that we now have the ability for, you know, again, two-edged sword.
	Let's look at some of the, sort of the better applications.
	Well, here's one way to approach it.
	She mentioned electroshock therapy.
	Yeah.
	It's a sort of a last line psychiatric defense, that and other things that they try.
	Now, at the very edge, where they're dealing with people who are lost otherwise,
	they are doing two things.
	One, they're virtually experimenting medically on people.
	They are experimenting.
	And two, they're gathering information for the development of these technologies, aren't they?
	Absolutely.
	In fact, you know, when you look at the development of an understanding of human mind and body, that's what leads to the development of better weapons systems in order to exploit vulnerabilities.
	But at the same time, That basic knowledges are the key sort of the future of medical science in the sense that they start to unravel the mysteries of things like acupuncture, healing with hands, these things that are not understood but essentially the transfer of modulated energy either by a tool or by a person and these are the things that science is pointing more and more towards in terms of having profound physiological effect but unfortunately most of what's being learned is being used
	Uh, to really interfere or damage.
	And in some cases, I mean, even in the military literature, to be fair, a couple of things that are kind of interesting is one, they point to what they call anomalous functioning of the human mind and body.
	In other words, these extraordinary or, um, uh, you know, sort of outer seventh sense kind of experiences of some individuals to explain, you know, if you can figure out enough about how energy works and maybe you can create You know, people with greater capacities as human beings, demonstrating those anomalous things that only rare individuals do today.
	Sure.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Dr. Biggage in Alaska.
	Hello.
	I was reading an article in the New England Journal of Medicine, where they were trying to duplicate the actual intellectual level of human beings, and I think they referred to this as the case of the Calvary.
	I wanted to know if you could actually touch on that, if you're familiar with it.
	Mine should just elaborate a little bit, not by that name that doesn't ring a bell.
	Yes, well they said in the case of the Calvelli, what they were trying to do was the neural synapses of human beings, if they could replicate that, say if one person was a psychotic, they could actually duplicate it and study it in a lab.
	And it's known as the case of the Calvelli.
	Essentially, recreating the signal and creating the same effect in another person.
	Yes.
	Yeah, and there's been a number of experiments in this area, or in the idea that you could do this.
	There was a gentleman doing work in this area who was a graduate of electrophysiology at the University of Madrid.
	He was doing work in the mid-70s at the University of Australia, Queensland, a guy named Michaela.
	And, you know, what he found and what he had shown is that You could, in fact, create by outside stimulus the same signals.
	And this is basically the easier signals to create are emotional because they tend to be just the way the signals are created.
	They're not so complex.
	Voice and that kind of information was something that was, I think, figured out a lot later and in different degrees of sophistication.
	When you look at whether they're microwave carriers or electromagnetic signals, there's a couple of patents on the books that actually Demonstrate this ability so you know the stuff has been around.
	I think what's really changed is a way in which It's starting to make it, and I think the common literature even when you see military publications going into the major libraries Talking about the potentials of this technology it becomes pretty startling because no one's really challenging it and yet You know this is the direction our militaries are going right now Okay, Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Begich in Alaska.
	Good morning.
	Hello?
	Yes, hello.
	Oh, I'm on.
	Yes, you're on.
	Oh, man.
	I have been listening to your show for years, and I have been looking forward to talking to Dr. Begich for a long time.
	I drive trucks to Fairbanks and Anchorage at night since 1990 and we've noticed, a friend
	of mine and myself have noticed a weird change in the weather patterns in certain spots and
	we were attributed to the heart project because we could hear certain things on our CB radios
	like he was telling me was radar and stuff.
	We could hear it would come on and there would be long stretches of warm spots on the road
	and at the same time, I saw your book, I'm kind of nervous right now, my friends are
	going to tease me for this, but Angels Don't Play This Harp and it talked about animal
	migration and how they could mess with animal migration and mind control and stuff.
	You know what I'm talking about?
	Right.
	Okay, well, the caribou, they usually stay in certain areas and travel in certain patterns.
	Right.
	They were running through Fairbanks and, you know, downtown and in North Pole, which is way off their pattern.
	Right.
	We've seen dull sheep in Nenana, which is flat.
	We talked to this trooper and they said that they've never heard of that before and someone was saying every 200 years they'll stray off their migratory pattern, but I've never heard of a dull sheep coming out of the mountain range into, you know, flats, you know, like Camino Flats and stuff like that.
	Alright, how about that?
	Migratory patterns, that sort of thing, Doctor?
	Yeah, one of the things that's been found out about most migratory species is they have small amounts of magnetite within the brain, a magnetic mineral essentially, and they figure it acts like a switch allowing them to sort of navigate and maybe is responsible for a lot more sensitivities than we're aware of.
	But again, when you talk about the high energy of systems like HAARP, one of the problems that comes up is will it and can it?
	Interfere with with the magnetic field lines of the earth and it's actually designed to do to do that and as a consequence Those are the very lines whose rhythms are followed by migrant migratory species According to almost all literature now.
	I mean they used to believe it was Sense of smell and geographic location, you know, but rather magnetic lines, right?
	Right and that's what's understood today to be truly the navigating system for most species so when you enter a uh... man's introduction of new technologies actually
	interfere with those
	background radiations that these animals apparently are more sensitive to be able
	to pick out and i think one time man was as well i think we've sort of lost that
	as we've surrounded ourselves in a
	sea of uh... electromagnetic noise in the sense of uh... the amount of energy that's around us compared to
	what was normal in that Doctor, if you take a project like HAARP or any of the others that we've been discussing tonight and you consider the budget that they have for development of this technology for whatever stated goal they have, how much of that budget do you imagine is usually apportioned to researching possible
	Unintended consequences.
	Not enough.
	I mean, in the case of HAARP, for instance, in all these years that we've complained about it, and other political bodies now have complained about it, you know, they've never put sort of the biological team on the project, people with a requisite background in the right field of science, that they have available to them, published for them, on the project to sort of look at the effects.
	What they've defaulted to is Whatever safety standards and rationale that they can lead to and then occasionally they exceed the limits of their permits and their rationale and blame it on whatever contractor error or whatever they've done in the past.
	The fact is now they're getting special permissions under the emergency powers that go into effect with many of the pieces of legislation.
	Bear in mind now they're accelerating the funding of this project The missile defense is going forward at about 80 billion is what's anticipated to be spent over the next few years.
	You know, a lot of money is being pledged into these projects that before were being incrementally dropped in on us.
	Now they're coming in mass and it's going to change the complexion of warfare and have a dramatic effect on the democracies in the way in which they operate.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Nick Biggage in Alaska.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes, sir.
	This is Boyden from Independence, Missouri.
	How are you doing, Nick?
	I'm doing good.
	Thanks.
	You remember me, I hope?
	Yeah.
	Go ahead.
	Okay.
	Nick, if you could maybe expound upon the cumulative effect of the technology that you've been sharing with in the context of a An effort to manipulate the minds and thoughts of humanity from a religious point of view using holographic technology, technology that could actually transmit voices into the minds of people, project imagery, etc.
	in the context of there being some great salvational experience in light of the kinds of catastrophic events that are not only happening now but prophetically.
	I don't know.
	happen down the road and how we as a people can be deceived into believing that all of
	a sudden there is some great new age spiritual salvation program coming to our rescue.
	This holographic projection is real possible now. We have that technology. The idea of
	projecting a voice, it almost sounds like it emanates from a three dimensional space,
	electrodining sound and manipulating sound in very specific ways to create that illusion
	So yeah, that can be done.
	And again, in the right context, it might be used.
	The idea, again, kind of going back to, sort of, Brzezinski's take on the whole thing, you know, would they use it for our own good?
	You know, which is really what we're talking about.
	And, you know, I think a lot of people in government really honestly believe that what they do is for our own good and would make those decisions without necessarily consulting us.
	And that's, I think, the greatest fear.
	You know, these issues go back to lots of things within our government.
	Think about this.
	A half a million Americans experimented on without anyone ever being held accountable.
	I think there was only one case of someone actually suing and winning, and it was the
	CIA's drugging of an individual who was said to have committed suicide, but not that he
	was drugged.
	But out of a half a million, only one?
	You know, that's a pretty sad state of affairs under any kind of accountability.
	Even though that is a...
	What you're stating is a well-known fact.
	People are in denial about it because they just don't want to believe their own government
	They don't want to believe that, and I understand that.
	Yeah, and I think that, you know, it's interesting.
	There was a government teacher here that I gave a copy of Revolution Military Affairs, which talked about a lot of this, and they took it to his class, and they all read it, and they commented on it.
	One of them went home, and their dad was a military guy, because there's a lot of military here, and said, no, it's absolutely not true.
	He was just angry, and it's, you know, a U.S.
	Army War College document.
	The other parent was, you know, yeah, it's true and unfortunately, you know, it's the way it is.
	But, you know, you have those kind of reactions because people commit themselves to the things they believe the country stands for.
	And when we find out that it doesn't always roll that way, we do go into denial.
	And the fact is, we need to hold our government and those within it accountable for the things they do that infract on the very things that represent the values, I think, that all of this is supposed to be.
	Yeah, but that is all changing as we speak.
	West of the Rockies, without a lot of time, you're on the air with Dr. Nick Begich.
	Hello.
	King Arthur.
	Yes, sir.
	Mitch, the Magic Christian from Ventura, California.
	Yes, go right ahead.
	Dr. Begich, I believe you spoke on this, touched around the edges of it at least earlier, but let me ask the question directly.
	Do you believe that considering the potentialities of HAARP that what we're going through now with the debate about the
	missile defense technology is really what it comes down to is a budgetary and
	political masturbation.
	Well, I think what we're going to get once the money is appropriated is different than
	what's being sold right now, only because there's good technology that's much superior
	to what's being told to the public.
	But what it's really about is a lot of money and a lot of technology.
	It is about national defense.
	At the same time, it's about some risk.
	I think the risks need to be debated.
	I think the national defense needs to be secured.
	And I think we can have both, but not in a vacuum and not in an environment of fear.
	And unfortunately, that's where we are at the moment.
	Yeah, well, I'm not so sure how we get this kind of thing into the public arena.
	I suppose programs like this would be about the only way to force it, literally force it in.
	All right, we're short on time.
	Earth Rising is available pretty much nationwide, certainly Amazon.com, where you can get a great buy on it.
	You've got another publication, sort of a follow-up to that, coming out shortly.
	When will that be out?
	That's going to come out hopefully by April, maybe a little sooner than that, the way things are shaping up right now.
	Okay.
	Is there any way for people to get in touch with you if they have questions?
	Absolutely.
	My toll free number is 888-690-1277 and my website is www.earthpulse.com which is also linked to yours this evening.
	Sure.
	Of course we have a link.
	And so there would be an email address there?
	Yes, absolutely.
	Or again, the toll-free number.
	Is that for... that's mainly for ordering, isn't it?
	Right, that's for books.
	And in general, contact messages can be left at another number.
	I can give you that as well.
	Sure, go ahead.
	That's 907-249- 9111 and that will get to me as well.
	Alright, people have to be careful when they're dialing that number we found out after previous
	programs.
	Yes, yes.
	It's area code 907, that's Alaska, 907-249-9111.
	Right.
	Remember 9-1-1-1.
	And again, the 800 toll-free number is 888-690-1277, correct?
	That's correct.
	All right.
	Well, as always, it has been a great pleasure having you here, and particularly, Doctor, on such short notice.
	Hey, it's always a pleasure to be with you at any time.
	We're always glad.
	Well, we live in very interesting times, don't we?
	It is amazing how much is coming to pass.
	You know, the future is going to be a lot different than we project.
	It's going to happen a lot faster, but at the same time, some great possibilities exist.
	So I think we have a lot to look forward to as well.
	All right.
	Dr. Begich, thank you so much.
	Thanks for having me again.
	Good night.
	That's Dr. Nick Begich in Alaska.
	And I know a lot of what you heard sounds like science fiction, but as I tried to point out to you... As I really tried to point out to you earlier in the show, much of what we have discussed on this program, now well over a decade old nationally, has come to pass.
	So, you should be careful about what you adore and dismiss as poppycock, because it's not.
	From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
	Ta-ta.

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