Art Bell

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Dec. 3, 2001 - Art Bell

02:30:18

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Dr. Nicholas J. Begich - HAARP

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53:05

nick begich

01:10:47

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Desert Emmett Americans.
		Love it you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, whatever it may be, wherever you are in all 24 time zones covered by this program called Ghost Ghost AMI Mart Bell.
		And tonight, it's hard to know where to begin in the news.
		There is so much going on.
		In the second hour, Dr. Nick Begich will be here, and I have suspected for some time, in fact, as a replacement for our guest who came down with a sore throat, for some time I have...
unidentified		That and other warfare techniques.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And of course, HARP will be the subject with Dr. McVigich next hour.
		First of all, I'd like to welcome another new affiliate, KMAX, in Colfax, Virginia, 840 on the dial in Colfax, Virginia.
		And Bob Hauser, hello there, General Manager.
		Steve Rubbs, the program director.
		Great to have you on board.
		I don't know precisely where Colfax is.
		Somebody I'm sure will blast me or email me and let me know.
		Now.
		Again, it's pretty hard to know where to begin.
		You know, about the awful attacks on Israel.
		So we'll discuss that in a moment.
		We'll discuss what is now the latest warning to all Americans.
		Here it comes again.
		Another warning to all Americans, folks.
		Nonspecific but credible information that something is going to happen during the holiday season.
		Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge announced the third government alert since the September 11th hijacking, saying the information doesn't point to any specific target or type of attack.
		So that just sort of lets you imagine everything, and I guess anything is possible.
		So Americans, you have been warned tonight for a third time that something's going to happen, or may happen.
		In Israel, as you know, there have been a number of suicide attacks resulting in many, many injuries and quite a number of deaths, and Israel's had it.
		I told you, if you remember Friday's program, I told you that something was cooking.
		I knew it was.
		Something was cooking in Israel.
		There was increased military activity in Israel.
		I knew something was up in Israel, and sure enough, it broke over the weekend.
		Now, they are going to, they're declaring their own war on terrorism, kind of a brilliant move in a lot of ways.
		Usually, the United States is always trying to get Israel to calm down, to show restraint, and to try and push forward no matter what happens with the peace process.
		This time, two things are different.
		One, we're involved in our own war against terrorism.
		And there is a fierce fight going on, by the way, in southern Afghanistan, in Kandahar, outskirts of Kandahar.
		How many Marines are involved, we're not sure.
		But a fierce fight.
		And while all of this is going on, the Middle East blows up.
		It's my understanding that they're calling the PLO now a terrorist-aiding organization, Israelist.
		And they've got tanks, apparently, near Arafat headquarters.
		And almost anything can happen in the Middle East.
		Boy, dangerous.
		Talk about dangerous times.
		We are engaged in Afghanistan.
		The Middle East is blowing up.
		And who knows what's going on over in Iraq?
		Apparently, four Afghan factions agreed early Tuesday to get together on some sort of framework for a post-Taliban administration.
		The deal just coming hours after the U.S. pressured the Northern Alliance to drop its objections.
		In a night of very what's described as hectic diplomacy, U.S. appeals finally persuaded Northern Alliance leaders in Kabul to release a long, delayed list of candidates for an interim administration, so we're pressing hard.
		But I said on Friday, and I say again tonight, I wonder if the new boss is going to be any different than the old boss.
		I wonder what these people are really.
		We don't really know what these factions are about, what they believe in, which one is going to prevail, whether a coalition really even can exist.
		We don't know anything about any of that.
		So what a mess we've got going on in the world right now, huh?
		Our own war in Afghanistan that will probably spread from there.
		And the Middle East disintegrating very quickly indeed.
		Something to really think about.
		Now, it finally, as I told you it would, was revealed Monday morning what it or Ginger is.
		And what it is, is a scooter.
		Inventor Dean Kamen quieted months of widespread buzz.
		Actually, you know, the buzz had died down, really, of all about it.
		The buzz had really died down.
		And I think that's why, instead of, I guess you can read the story this way if you want to, but I would not have printed it this way.
		The buzz had died down, and so they finally decided, I think, to announce it because as much publicity had been melked from it as possible.
		It is a scooter.
		As I told you, I thought a long time ago, it's based on the IBOC technology.
		It's a gyro-stabilized scooter.
		That's all it is.
		It doesn't fly.
		It doesn't defy gravity.
	It does stand up straight, as by the way, you must If you're on this scooter, in other words, it's two wheels, and that's what the gyros are all about.
	You know, keeping it stable, it'll do, what, about 13 miles an hour, like a lot of electric scooters, about 13 miles an hour.
unidentified		That's what most of them do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I don't know what the Brouha is all about.
		It is interesting.
		Without question, it's interesting, but you've got to stand up.
		And that would be a major complaint and sticking point for me.
		You've got to stand up.
		It looks like a pretty good personal transportation vehicle.
		You know, I've thought for a long time that scooters are really the way to go.
		I've got them.
		I've got one called a Buzz, and it's awesome.
		Really awesome.
		But it's cool because you get to sit down.
		With this, it, you have to stand.
		And they showed it going through water and up little ramps and stuff like that.
		Pretty cool.
		But not anti-gravity and not as cool as a lot of people had formed it up to be in their mind.
		And again, very much formed up around the I-BOT, which was our best guess, you'll recall.
		So there you've got it.
		You may have comments on it.
		Were you disappointed in it?
		Will you run out and buy it?
		It, I understand, will be about $3,000.
		The beefed up version of it, going to be used by some postal authorities or delivering people, mail delivery people to deliver the mail.
		That'll cost a whole lot more, actually.
		But for the consumer model, maybe around $3,000.
		You know, and he says things like, why do you need 3,000 pounds of steel around you to go up to the store?
		Well, you don't, really.
		On the other hand, if some of those people maintain the 3,000 or 4,000 pounds of steel about them, and you're on it, well, there's no...
		I wonder if it can go anywhere anybody can walk.
		Whether it'll be legal on sidewalks and that sort of thing.
		You know, an it-person collision would not be good.
		An it-vehicle collision would be really bad.
		But there it is, anyway.
		I'm sure some of you may have comments on it.
		It's just irresistible, you know, with that name, not to use it.
		Okay, open minds for the balance of this hour coming up.
		There are a couple of other things.
		There are earthquake swarms going on now in the Spokane area.
		For some time, Spokane has been experiencing just swarm, earthquake after earthquake after earthquake.
		And I wonder what it is that's going on up there.
		Some sort of fault line that may have escaped the experts' attention until now.
		They're not sure.
		But apparently that may well be the case.
		They're feeling all kinds of small earthquakes.
		Now, whether that portends something wider or not, you know, you have to have a crystal ball.
		Worldwide, now this may not surprise a lot of you, worldwide, fish catches are not just down, they are plummeting.
		The number of fish that fishermen worldwide are able to catch is plummeting.
		A team of scientists based at the University of British Columbia at Vancouver found that global catches thought in the 1990s to be increasing by 700 million pounds of fish per year, guess what, have actually been decreasing instead by 800 million pounds annually.
		So somebody got their numbers way wrong, way wrong.
		Are you surprised?
		I'm certainly not.
		They had numbers.
		Now, again, let's think about this, showing there was a big increase in the number of fish being caught by about 700 million.
		That's a lot.
		But now they're wrong, and not just by that number, but by over twice that number.
		Actually, it's decreasing by nearly 800 million pounds annually.
		That's a whole lot less fish, folks.
		And there's a reason.
		First-time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am in Connecticut.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, far away.
unidentified		First-time caller, and I've only been listening to you for about two months now since I just relocated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Happy to have you.
unidentified		Excuse me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I said happy to have you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Oh, thank you.
		I had a question about kind of a phenomenon I've been experiencing since I was younger.
		Whenever I go to sleep at night, as I'm laying there and I start to relax and drift in that happy middle place, I start to hear what sounds like thousands and thousands and thousands of voices talking loudly.
		And I can't understand any of any words or anything, but it's kind of disturbing, frankly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, are you really sure that you would specifically describe it that way as thousands of voices, or could you describe it as sort of a gigantic hum or vibration?
unidentified		Oh, no, it definitely sounds like people speaking.
		The other thing that I have is sometimes it'll be like a singular voice where I can never pick out an actual word, but it sounds like somebody just yells my name or just yells something, a phrase, a sentence, something, and it kind of makes me start back to reality.
		I was just wondering if you had ever heard anything like that or if any of your callers had called in with a similar problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe somebody on the other side is trying to get your attention.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think?
unidentified		I don't know.
		It's been happening probably for a good seven or eight years now.
		I'm in my mid-20s.
		But.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, every now and then, sir, I get a new one, and you've dropped a new one on me.
		And you're on a cell phone that's about to be disconnected.
		You've dropped a new one on me, so I don't know what to tell you, sir.
unidentified		Okay, well, I thought I could entertain you for a little bit, and thanks for taking my call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You did.
unidentified		Take care.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, there are psychiatric conditions associated a lot, which a lot of people would say, or psychiatrists would say, with hearing voices.
		But it doesn't sound like the same sort of thing to me.
		So what you've got there is something new.
		I don't know what to tell you about that.
		Voices, and then sometimes a singular voice yelling your name.
		That's what caused me to say maybe somebody on the other side is trying to get your attention.
		Other than that, I don't know.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Cheerio.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		Okay.
		Am I. Is this our bell?
		Yes.
		Oh, hi, this is Brandon in Cottage Grove.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Organ.
		I really have no alien stuff to talk about.
		Me, sir.
		I was just wondering when you're going to have the guest, Kent Tobin, back on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
unidentified		Kent Tobin, the illusionist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess when there comes need to or reason to, why?
unidentified		Well, it's, well, I think you can bring him on, you know, just get this Age of the Earth theory out of here, you know.
unidentified		You know, it's not billions of years old, and just get all that stuff out of there, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He thinks it's only 6,000 years old, right?
unidentified		Yeah, that's I went to one of his seminars up here, and he explained it clearly up here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he does explain it clearly.
		It's just that I don't buy it.
		You know, I understand there are a lot of fundamentalists, and I give them voice when they want it, who think the Earth is only 6,000 years old, and that all of the evidence, actually, the mountains of evidence now, that we're not only very old,
		but that we're a whole lot older than even we think and even the scientists think, and that man has been tromping about, or some version of man, on Earth for a really, really long time.
		That was going to be the center of a discussion tonight regarding Atlantis, but again, my guest is ill, sore throat, and so that'll have to be rescheduled.
		Nevertheless, I find it increasingly difficult, if not impossible, to buy into these 6,000.
		You know, man has only been on the planet for 6,000 years theory.
		That creation virtually occurred that long ago.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, this is our Trucker Ken from Running Level Country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I can tell you're a trucker.
		How are you doing?
		All right.
unidentified		All right.
		I want you to investigate with people who've been having a lot of visions.
		I live in Vegas, and I run into several people that had the same vision I've had of seeing a nuclear explosion.
		I've had one day when I started driving from the Summerlin Parkway.
		I made it all the way up to the Spaghetti Bowl.
		I did not know how I got there.
		And the whole time, I envisioned a nuclear explosion happening by Sunrise Mountain.
		You know it's on the other side of Sunrise Mountain, so I don't want to say what it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we all do.
unidentified		So I ran into someone just by just, you know, incident, you know, talked about it, and they had that same vision.
		And they ran into people that had that same vision.
		And it's scaring the hell out of me, especially what's going on now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, you know, you're talking about Boulder Dam, right?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're talking about Boulder Dam.
		All right.
		Thanks.
		So there's somebody who's having visions of a nuclear detonation near Boulder Dam.
		Well, of course, they've closed off the visitor center on a number of occasions recently to Boulder Dam.
		It's one of the places they watch for obvious reasons.
		And that's what he's referring to over Sunrise Mountain.
		I don't know how many of you are having similar visions.
		I can't say that I've had that, but you need to pay attention when people begin to share those sorts of visions.
		On the other hand, you could say to yourself, well, people are just having those kinds of thoughts and visions because of what has occurred.
		And it has suggested this to them.
		And so they're having those kinds of dreams.
		I don't know.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, Art.
unidentified		This is Jim in Charlotte, North Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Jim.
unidentified		Yeah, I wanted to, you had Richard Hoagland on about a month ago for a few minutes, like a half hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And it was mentioned about Zachariah Sitch and Phantom Planet and Thor's Hammer and all this.
		And I hadn't heard a word about it since.
		And I was just wondering what was going on there because this was supposedly like eight months out at that time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		We'll have to get Richard back on and ask him.
		Yeah, I don't have an answer immediately for you what's new in that area.
		Richard put a message on my answering machine today, and I didn't have a chance to get back to him yet, but I'll be talking to him shortly.
		So, you know, if there's some reason to come back on the air, we'll do it.
unidentified		But that's big news if that's happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The world is full of big news right now.
unidentified		That's the truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, thank you.
		Again, anybody out there have any thoughts on the bigger picture out there right now?
		I mean, think about it.
		Here we are involved in Afghanistan.
		Big brouhaha in Afghanistan.
		And the Middle East is blowing up.
		What do you think it all means?
		Do you think there is something big that's about to happen, some world-scale conflict that's going to break out?
		Are we on the verge of that?
		Or will it all resolve Itself.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		Oh, the night is my world.
		City lights, painted glass.
		In the day, nothing matters.
		It's the night.
		Thank you.
		Doesn't matter.
		In the night, no come home.
		Through the wall, sunset breaking.
		Wearing white as we're walking down the street of the phone.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with our fellow from Bought Kingdom of Dive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, it is.
		Well, I'm watching the sun very carefully, as always.
		I've done that all my life, and our sun is really going berserko.
		In fact, if you're a ham radio operator, as I am, you might have experienced openings now to Europe, Europe on 50 megahertz, six meters, which is astounding.
		Not unheard of, but absolutely astounding.
		And I say that as I comment on the general world situation.
		Wars, rumors of wars, terrorism.
		It's all happening.
		The financial market's askew.
		Everything is caddywampus.
		Environmentally, it's a disaster out there.
		And to a large degree, I blame a lot of human behavior and misbehavior on activity on the sun.
		And the way the earth affects the, rather, the way the sun affects the earth's magnetic field and hence all of us.
		I've just been following this for years.
		Things are clearly quickening.
		No question about that.
		That process is very well underway.
		Wildcardline, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Brother Bell.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Where's the day?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just fine, sir.
unidentified		Excellent.
unidentified		With regards to cloning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, yes.
unidentified		I, being having only one kidney now, I would be for it 100%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You would?
		Yes.
		If your kidney was failing, you wouldn't have any ethical, moral dilemmas about accepting one if it were available.
unidentified		None whatsoever.
		I understand you can go to China and they sell them there.
		Oh, yes.
		And I've been running thoughts of that through my head.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You would do that if necessary.
unidentified		Yes.
		The one thing that does bother me is after that, after I've finished myself, my next clone, I'm not sure which would be my first choice, possibly Bo Derrick or Crystal Gale.
		That makes a real dilemma for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it doesn't sound like...
unidentified		Not necessarily me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sounds to me as though you're squarely in favor of cloning for personal organs and for those of others as well.
		Yeah, cloning.
		There's another one.
		There's a lot of news going on right now.
		So many big stories that it's really not possible to properly and appropriately follow them all.
		I mean, these are all big stories that on their own deserve almost full-time attention.
		Our war, what's going on in the Middle East, what's going on with the environment, what's going on with cloning.
		There are so many things that deserve almost full-time individual attention, and yet they're all happening at once.
		Surprised?
		East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		This is Eric Gotten, Florida.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Eric.
unidentified		I'm originally from North Las Vegas.
		I'm out here for a little bit.
		Yes, sir.
		Yes.
		In reference to it and the genie called it that the post office will be using.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I envision 50 cent stamps after they get them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think it'll drive up the cost of stamps.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I think what's going to drive up the cost of stamps is the fact that not as many people are using the mails, and it's going to cause that's causing a terrible thing.
		I mean, you cannot imagine what's, I can barely imagine what's occurring to the post office right now.
		I feel sorry for them.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Well, maybe if they change their procedure as far as no more drop boxes, everybody has to get a fingerprint instead of a stamp, you know, and then they could be able to trace a fingerprint on the letter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's one of the thumbprint.
		I'll tell you something.
		That's one of the type things that we're going to be talking about tonight with Nick Begich.
		This whole privacy thing.
unidentified		You know, with the 911, when 911 happened and everybody was blaming the government for not seeing this terrorist attack coming, I think that's why you have every now and then this is the third disclosure where they are saying America be careful because something is going to happen.
unidentified		It's like a disclaimer now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The third.
		Yeah, it's like a disclaimer, actually.
		Yes.
		Very much like that.
unidentified		So they won't be able to say, we didn't tell you.
unidentified		Also, you know, Arch, you're saying that you think man has been here for a Very long time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		You know, I brought up, like to Barbara Simpson one time, I was telling her, I believe that that could be an answer to how man built the pyramids.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, of course it could.
unidentified		With a dinosaur's help.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With a dinosaur's help.
		I think the evidence is clearly, very clearly mounting for anybody who really wants to look at it.
		And I understand there are a lot of people who don't.
		You know, that man has been here for a very, very long time and had technologies that we don't have today.
		We've gone down a different sort of path, a linear technological path.
		And our science is sort of straight ahead in one direction with physics as we understand them.
		And it may be there was a whole different set of physics that allowed people in a different time, a different era, to do things that we do now in a different way.
		Maybe a better way, maybe not as good.
		Who knows?
		West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
unidentified		This is Gary out of Seattle on Como.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Hey, quick comment about the world situation first.
		I think we should all bear in mind that I think a secret deal was struck when Putin was over here talking to Bush about the oil.
		We are getting a lot more oil from Russia right now, and they have counterbalanced OPEC as far as raising the prices.
		And I believe Russia also has an interest in getting a pipeline from the Caspian area over to India to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They've got a lot of oil under the ground, sir.
unidentified		And so do we.
		and i think maybe we i'm hoping when i'm hoping this is all about eventually if we were up with russia we will finally form a counterbalance from twenty years of being blackmailed by the saudis i think we had a former national wind farm reserve down the middle of the country and put up a huge amount of windmills we did we get an energy for the whole country but we should be doing the windmill thing and solar panels and all the rest of them we should have been doing doing it for a long time.
		Absolutely.
		That would be true, security.
		Back to it, though.
		I must say I was a bit disappointed.
		It was kind of what I expected.
		But, I mean, it didn't even have a hydrogen power source.
		It didn't even, you know, it didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm with you.
		I'm kind of disappointed.
		I'm not exactly surprised because I thought it was going to be just a little twist on the IBOT thing, which is what it is.
unidentified		Yeah.
		But I'd rather, you know, for that kind of money, $3,000.
		And I've heard the initial one is going to be $8,000 to the industries, and they're hoping to get it to $3,000.
		It doesn't even have tungsten mags on it, for God's sake.
		I'd rather have a motorcycle for $3,000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't know that it justifies the hype that came before it.
unidentified		But, Art, there is a device that would be revolutionary.
unidentified		I think I heard you musing, I think it was Friday when Open Lines, you were talking about you wished you had a magic hovering carpet that would hover silently through the air?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the magic carpet is what I wanted when I was seven.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now what I want is an anti-grav-type device of some sort that, yes, would hover.
unidentified		Such a thing as anti-gravity, I don't know, but a thing that would do just that does exist.
		There was an actual patent taken out on it.
		I've seen they built a flying model of it about three feet square.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, I've been interviewing Mahler, and I need to interview him again on the flying car.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, there's all kinds of plans out there.
unidentified		But this was actually built.
		It was built by a guy named Dave Savirski.
		He used to work with Curtis LeMay that worked back at SAC.
		And he got this idea from seeing ionized smokestacks, and this thing would be like an electric helicopter.
		It's an ion stream.
		And they actually built it.
		They even had a patent, which has probably expired.
		And if someone like your friend Mr. Bigelow, that has millions would invest $200 million in this thing, they could probably build them.
		And the great thing is, the bigger they get, they just work on an electronic downdraft.
		The bigger they get, the more efficient they are.
		They could probably go above 100,000 feet.
		And the bigger they would be, they could land directly in cities.
		This would probably transform cities more than it.
		They could vertically land, lift freight, lift people if you get small enough power sources.
		So you could build them a block-wide if you wanted to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I agree if that's true.
		I'd love to know more about that.
		It, as far as it is concerned, Dean Cayman's it.
		It's interesting, but it's not the world-modifying device that it was hyped to be.
		It's an interesting scooter.
		Although, from my personal point of view, I prefer a scooter you sit on.
		Standing, I don't know.
		Even though I understand the gyros keep you straight, and I understand you can zoom along, and you can make tight little turns and everything.
		I don't know.
		I'd rather sit.
		And because it's just two wheels and you've got to stand, I just, you know, Americans are in love with their cars.
		They really are in love with their cars.
		Now, for a short jaunt, it makes sense.
		But so do other scooters.
		I don't know.
		The hype was just way beyond the reality.
		First time caller line, you are on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Eric.
unidentified		How's it going?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's going, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Going in Hartford, Connecticut.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hartford?
		All right.
		What's up?
unidentified		I had a couple of questions, actually.
		Well, one, actually, regarding it.
		The thing I thought that was kind of interesting, because I've been looking for alternative transportation.
		There's a couple of good websites along those lines as well.
		But on that Hulver floating type of device you were talking about, I did find a vendor that had something that's pretty much along those lines.
		It does Hulver.
		Right now it uses gas, but it's supposed to be down the road, go ahead to using something that's going to be electric.
		And that was at the company called Zap Bikes, and they have a website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure they do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please don't give it out.
unidentified		Oh, that's right.
		And also, we had a caller officer actually from Connecticut as well that was talking about that when they go into a, when they're starting to fall asleep, they hear voices and everything.
		Yes.
		And I myself have two sleep disorders.
		So I've kind of gone through a lot of this in the past 15 years.
		And one of the things that my therapist was telling me that was quite interesting was what happens is before you get into that lucid dream state, as you're falling asleep, what happens is it's kind of like you're getting into REM state to where you can have dreams.
		But as we know, we've set several thousand dreams that we're lucky if we're conscious of a single one of them.
		Every now and then, certain influences come out in that state, and we're conscious of it because we're not totally achieving REM sleep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's because you're in a particularly vulnerable moment.
unidentified		Yeah, but it's really interesting.
unidentified		For instance, if you're falling asleep, how many times have you got that quick flinch where you're jumping, like you think you're falling or something is coming up?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It has happened many times to me, and I'm sure everybody.
unidentified		Same thing, except for, obviously, with Wikipedia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that occurs at that same time.
		In other words, yeah, I think we're talking about the same period.
		Now, I experience a lot of that sort of stuff.
		And I believe the reason for that is because instead of one sleep cycle, I have two.
		I sleep shortly after the program in the morning for a short period, very short period.
		And then again in the afternoon for a second short period.
		Probably not a really good idea.
		But you go through twice the cycles.
		And your sleep is probably less deep.
		And so as a result, you have more of this twilight zone time, I guess I'll call it.
		Twilight zone time.
		And you are vulnerable to all kinds of things.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, man.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
		Turn your radio off, please.
		Okay.
		And then proceed.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		It's off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, good, go.
unidentified		All right.
		I was wondering if I could just make a little statement.
		I wanted to tell them, read a quatrain from Nostradamus.
		It refers to what's going on right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think so?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it?
unidentified		All right.
		There's a few of them here.
		I'll just read you one right here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just one, right.
unidentified		One who the infernal gods of Hannibal will cause to be born.
unidentified		Terror to all mankind, nevermore horror, nor the newspapers tell of worse in the past.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, who do you think that might be?
unidentified		Oh, well, the gods of Hannibal were.
unidentified		They were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that who is going to be born, that person who is going to be born.
unidentified		Oh, the third Antichrist, allegedly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Think so?
		Well, he may be here now.
		There are those who believe he is here now.
		But the Antichrist walks among us now.
		And who's to say not?
		With everything that is going on, I suppose you could almost attach some sort of biblical possibilities to present events, couldn't you, worldwide?
unidentified		Definitely.
unidentified		Definitely, definitely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There could be something like that on the horizon.
		Something biblical.
		West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
		Good morning.
		Hi there.
		Hi.
unidentified		Commissioner.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you turn your radio off, please?
unidentified		Oh, I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Everybody makes the same mistake.
		Where are you?
unidentified		Listen to the show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Can I just keep re-reading re-dial rest?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you located?
unidentified		In Arizona.
		Okay.
		A guy called earlier about hears voices when he goes to sleep.
		Yes.
		I received a massive back injury, and one of the things the doctor was giving me was codeine.
		And this stuff is really nasty and bizarre.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can't take codeine.
		I'm allergic to it.
		Right.
unidentified		It would actually make you hallucinate.
		I would hear voices, and if I took enough of it, I'd actually hallucinate from this stuff.
		And what the guy was explaining completely mimicked the voices and all that stuff.
		If he's taking a painkiller that has codeine in it, it will make him hear voices, no doubt about it.
		I definitely had the doctor take me off that bizarre stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course.
		Of course, different pharmacology will affect different people in a different way.
		Some people may react as you did.
		Some may react as I did.
		I'm allergic to codeine, and it's kind of interesting what happened.
		This was a lot of years ago, and I went to the dentist, and the dentist did some pretty substantial work on me.
		And at the end of it all, gave me some codeine, you know, to go away with to feel better for the day.
		I think actually it was after two or three root canals and some bridge work.
		And this was many, many years ago, and I'll tell you how many years ago.
		You'll know in a second.
		I took the codeine and went with a gal, an acquaintance of mine, a gal, to a drive-in movie theater.
		And the codeine reaction set in while I was at the drive-in movies.
		We don't have drive-in movies anymore.
		I guess there are a few scattered around the country, but by and large, they're gone.
		Anyway, we went to a drive-in movie theater, and the codeine reaction hit.
		You know, I have that allergy, and I passed out, you know, right in the car watching the movie.
		Passed out.
		Well, they called an ambulance to come and Get me.
		And the ambulance came roaring into the theater.
		And I don't know how many of you remember the old drive-in theaters, but one way they prevented you from sneaking into the drive-in was they would put these spikes, which I'm sure you all know about, that if you're going the wrong way, they call it severe tire damage.
		Actually, it totally shreds your tire.
		Well, the ambulance, of course, wasn't taking its time.
		It was trying to get to me very quickly, and it came roaring in the wrong way.
		And all you could hear was boom, boom, boom, boom, four explosions, as this ambulance screams over this wrong way spike, set of spikes.
		And then I never did take the ambulance to the hospital anyway.
		So they had to be towed away.
		They put it up in a flatbed and took the ambulance away, but not me.
		I knew from then on codeine was not for me, and the ambulance company, I presume, knew which way to come into that theater after that.
		East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, Mr. Bell.
		How are you this evening?
		I'd like to just comment on your policy that you were...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, not for the U.S..
		No, sir.
		What I was talking about was individual isolationism.
		In other words, if something occurs, a biological release of some sort or some other terrorist act in this country, there may be a period of time when, for your own safety and that of your family, you might have to isolate yourself.
unidentified		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I was talking about.
unidentified		I see.
		Okay.
		Just real quick then, since we got that one out of the way, I saw a fire in the sky this evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no kidding.
unidentified		Yes, it was the first time that I'd actually seen the movie.
unidentified		I was wondering if you had any comments, actually, about the movie or the...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I interviewed Travis Walton.
		I interviewed his boss, all of whom participated in that whole thing.
		And they took two sets of lie detector tests and passed them.
		Believe me, their story is straight down the line, legit.
		Lots of witnesses.
		What else can I tell you?
		Legitimate.
unidentified		Was anything that partook in that the movie portrayed?
unidentified		Was anything in the movie a little bit more elaborate than what actually had occurred from?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I really should dig that.
		I did like a five-hour interview with Travis and company, and there was so much we talked about.
		Yes, the movie jazzed some things out the way a movie does.
		But the basic story that you saw was pretty basically, yes, what did occur.
unidentified		Absolutely incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe we'll try and get that repeated so you can hear it.
unidentified		That would be wonderful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, take care.
		Yes, the story of Travis Walton is an amazing story.
		Amazing.
		Actually, I did a couple of interviews with him.
		The first of which I think was the better.
		I don't know, though.
		I'll have to think about that.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
unidentified		This is Steve from Tacoma, Washington area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Steve.
unidentified		Listen on Como.
		Yes, Steve.
		Longtime listener.
		I've written you a couple of times.
		I'm an amateur radio operator, worked for a large, let's say, aerospace company, worked TRF and so forth.
		But, you know, as far as amateur radio and the sun and so forth, what we were talking about, if you think about what's going on now, and the time is 2001, and we have going on what's going on now, if you go back 11 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's more interesting to jump 11 years.
unidentified		Forward or backward?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Forward.
		If you jump forward one cycle, where do you get?
		You get to 2012.
		Okay.
		What's 2012?
		It's the end of the Mayan calendar.
unidentified		Right.
		But if you go back 11 years, you come into 1990.
		What happened then?
		The Gulf War.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		If you go back to 79, well, I didn't have that.
		I didn't research that enough.
		But if you go back to another 11 years, you go back to 1968.
		Vietnam.
		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
		You know, I'm sure you heard my comments.
		I've been watching it all my life, and I think there is an absolute relationship.
unidentified		And it has to be.
		All this energy coming from the sun.
		We are electrical.
		You know, our nerves work with electrical impulses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You betcha.
unidentified		You get the electricity from the sun.
		You betcha.
		Something's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No question about it, sir.
		I'm sorry, I've got to break it off.
		We're going to the top of the hour.
		I absolutely agree with you.
		I mean, uncategorically agree with you.
		The sun influences all of us, and right now, it's going berserk.
		And to some degree, so are we.
		What a surprise.
unidentified		Doing all right.
		A little driving on a Saturday night.
		Come walk me.
		Gonna die on the dead way.
		Getting with me.
		Just my hope people to me control the girl.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now, Dr. comes Dr. Nick Begich, eldest son of a U.S. Congressman from Alaska, Nick Begich Sr. and political activist Peggy Begich.
		He is a very well-known Alaskan for his own political activities, was twice elected president of both the Alaska Federation of Teachers and the Anchorage Council of Education, has been pursuing independent research in the sciences and politics for most of his adult life.
		Begich received his doctorate in traditional medicine from the Open International University for Contemporary Medicines in November 1994.
		So it's Dr. Begich.
		He co-authored the book Angels Don't Play This Harp, Advances in Tesla Technology, and wrote Towards a New Alchemy, The Millennium Science.
		His latest book, Earth Rising, The Revolution Toward a Thousand Years of Peace, co-authored with James Roderick in December of 99, also editor of the Earth Pulse Flashpoints, a continuing new science book series.
		Begich has published articles in science, politics, and education.
		He's a well-known lecturer, having presented throughout the U.S. and in 19 countries, has been featured as a guest on thousands of radio broadcasts reporting his research activities, including new technologies, health, and earth science-related issues.
		He's also appeared on dozens of TV documentaries and other programs throughout the world, including BBC, CBC, Telemundo, and, of course, many others.
		Here is Dr. Nick Begich.
		Hi, Dr. Begich, how you doing?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing great.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		It's good to be back with you again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's great to have you.
		Doctor, in the last hour, somebody called about the post office, and he was talking about he thought eventually everybody would be fingerprinted and wouldn't be allowed to send mail or something unless they were specifically identified.
		Of course, now you can just put a letter with a bunch of poison in it and mail it off and cause all kinds of havoc, as was done.
		But surely, with these threats, with terrorism, with the war, with everything that's going on right now, it's inevitable security measures are coming.
		What are they going to be?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		You know, this is probably the single biggest area that's sort of sleeping right now in terms of people really recognizing how much can come and how quick and how fast the temperature can change.
		Because just the idea of, say, a thumbprint to mail a letter, a year ago, that would have been considered pretty intrusive for most people's points of view.
		And today, today that's a much different equation and something I think that's not too far off.
		One of the first things along this line, of course, has been the discussion of smart card technologies for affirmative identifications.
		And as I think most people know now, the military unveiled their smart card for introduction for access to almost every electronic system in the military.
		But this same technology has been posed for either visitors to the United States to go in conjunction with passports or even for U.S. citizens where all of us are required, some form of ID with a biometric measure, which is a measure that takes some unique characteristic that's uniquely our own, whether it's a thumbprint, which most of us are familiar with, or even digitized voice information or iris scans.
		A number of things can be used for tracking that kind of data.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think is immediately in the offing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, people rebel, go nuts when they talk about national ID cards.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it's going to be sort of phased in.
		And my sort of predictions on that, based on how we're seeing the technology unfold and what we've seen over really the last seven or eight years even, you first see the introduction of the smart ID card into military circles for obvious control and ease of access and control of access situations.
		But the other thing that shows up in sort of the next leap is then, of course, to foreign travelers.
		And most people don't object to some form of very positive, verifiable ID for people visiting as guests in our country.
		The next place where you see it is in frequent travelers.
		In fact, one of the suggestions by the airline industry is the trusted traveler card.
		Now, so I guess that means everyone who doesn't get one is the untrusted trusted traveler.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The trusted traveler card?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Right.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		And the idea from the industry was to get very specific biometric data, things that identified an individual absolutely so that people who frequently flew could bypass some of the more stringent security checks based on more thorough backwatch on the individuals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		And that sort of a step actually rings back to something we wrote about in our first book and even in our last one a couple years ago, which was the idea of biocircuitry implants, the fusion of biological material with electronic material.
		And this first showed up in the military literature in 1989 that we found, and it was in a U.S. Army War College document that was called The Revolution of Military Affairs.
		And it talked about sort of the advancement of new technologies and what was coming, one of those things being implantable technologies.
		But what it also said in this paper was that it was, you know, it's contrary to American values that in order for those kinds of technologies to be introduced, values would have to be changed.
		And interestingly enough, the two scenarios they suggested would change those values were fear and panic developed or created by either international terrorism or international drug trafficking or a little bit of each.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are those values changing now?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
		I think very rapidly.
		In fact, there was a conference back in 1997 that Secretary of Defense William Cohen and Senators Luger, and I think it was Nunn, was the other U.S. Senator.
		It was at the University of Georgia in April of 97 on weapons of mass destruction and international terrorism.
		And in that conference, one of the big concerns that he actually expressed was this idea of how much will we give up as Americans individually in terms of civil liberties in exchange for safety and security.
		And I think that's really the crux of what we've seen change.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how much will we give up?
		Let's talk about the airlines right now.
		We have longer waits, longer security checks.
		But, you know, obviously if something else occurs, and it could easily, based on a lot of stories I've heard about security since then, then there's going to be some real tightening.
		And how far do you think people will let it go?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		I think actually people let it go pretty far.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		In fact, this airport security we see now is still not as intense as, say, European security has been for at least seven or eight years, probably.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So nowhere near the Israelis.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
		I mean, there's the security of the planet in terms of airports.
		But even general European traffic is more well controlled.
		I mean, when you look out on the tarmac at a Skivil airport in the Netherlands and you see a truck pull up to an airplane, two people with automatic weapons meet them, and the people come off the truck, they're searched, their carts are searched, and then they load the food.
		There's a lot more going on and has been overseas that I don't feel, at the first time I went through European Customs, where they actually do a personal interview with every single person getting on the plane, that's a pretty intense experience.
		You've got a guy about five inches from your face asking you 50 questions, and if you're not expecting it, it's quite unnerving.
		But that's the level of security that's been there for some time, multiple security checks, personal interviews, and very stringent activity on the tarmac.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What percentage of Americans do you think now would accept a mandatory identification card?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Unfortunately, I think the percentage is probably around 60 percent, I'd say, and climbing as things intensify.
		And I think that what we've seen in the last few months might seem like positive movement in terms of containing the threat.
		But in actuality, I think it's maybe an expression, a little bit of frustration, because the threat is much different than any threat we've had before.
		And quite frankly, I don't think we've done a lot to solve the real problem underlying all of this, which is a type of mindset, a type of anti-Americanism that springs from all kinds of faulted policies of the past and for a lot of other reasons.
		But the fact is, you know, we're facing a very different kind of warfare environment and one that many have been concerned about for the better part of a decade in terms of military planners, at least from what we've seen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You and I have talked many times about HARP, which is an acronym which stands for the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Project.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		And this project is here based in Alaska, and we've been, of course, I think, in fact, you were the first major person on radio to take this story public.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		In fact, we did this same topic almost six years ago to this week at least that we first went on the air on that very subject.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has it been that long?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Six years.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		1995 is when we did December, I think it was December 2nd or 1st of 95.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		HAARP is an amazing project right up there where you are or near you in the state of Alaska.
		And we've been following it all that time since we did that first program.
		HAARP is an ionospheric heater.
		Is that fair to?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly how the military originally termed these particular devices, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the stated goals of the HAARP project in Alaska, all these antennas and all this power, which concentrates from a broad beam on the ground to a very narrow beam where it hits the ionosphere, the stated goals of this project are what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are they trying to do?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Well, the first issue was communications with submarines communication at depth.
		And in order to accomplish that, they needed to figure out a way to generate what's called a long wave, an extremely low frequency signal.
		What they do with HAARP is it's a large radio transmitter on the ground, and by manipulating the energy, by pulsing that energy into the ionosphere, this layer that starts about 30 miles above the Earth's surface, they're able to actually cause the ionosphere to modulate or vibrate.
		And when it does, it sends a signal back to the Earth in this ELF, extremely low frequency range that actually penetrates the Earth and sea and allows for the communication with submarines.
		Another sort of side effect of that is a certain amount of that signal is reflected back.
		And if you have sensitive instruments on the ground that can analyze that reflection, you can actually deduce with a great degree of accuracy exactly what's under the ground, whether it's underground tunnels, bunkers, oil reserves, certain types of minerals show up pretty dramatically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have never quite understood how that part of it works.
		What I do understand is that most people say, oh, what a bunch of loan.
		You know, man cannot produce enough energy to make any change in anything like the ionosphere or anything else.
		But there's a good analogy, or maybe not so good, but the one I'll use, is you can take a knife and you can thrust it into an elephant's leg.
		Now, that won't take a whole lot of energy, a bit, but the energy that's produced by what you have done is going to be a tremendous amount.
		And that's kind of what HAARP does, isn't it?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it releases a good deal of energy in the ionosphere if it's manipulated in just the right way.
		But one of the things that's important to note is this idea of earth-penetrating tomography back in 95, 96 when they were debating this in the Congress, it was determined that the only way they would get additional funding is if they could prove that particular use.
		And so they did create the modulation in the ionosphere.
		In fact, it was reported by Professor Papadopoulos, who was at the University of Maryland at the time involved in the HARP project in BBC on a program called Horizons, where they described how they were able to locate underground mining facilities in the area of Fairbanks with a great degree of accuracy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, how interesting.
		So they, in essence, modulate the ionosphere.
		They get a return, kind of like a good analogy, I suppose, would be a radar return.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Except they can actually see underground and detect bunkers and mines and caves, of course.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, if that's true, how could it not be used to try and find the main complex of Osama bin Laden's hiding places?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is a great point because, you know, when we first interviewed one of the key players on this project, John Heckscher, who was at that time the PR guy for the military.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		He was also a geophysicist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, do I remember that.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Well, he was suggesting at one point when we interviewed him that wouldn't this have been nice to have during the Gulf War for exactly that purpose, locating those underground facilities that we suspected had the biological and chemical, maybe even some dirty atomic sort of plants that they may have had there.
		The reality is a lot of money has been pumped into this over the years.
		And we've tracked it through the years, and what they've done in the last, say, four or five years is the initiative for missile defense.
		And we had always said in the very beginning that one of the main issues with HAARP was to design a better missile defense system that would have a more versatile instrument in terms of detection and surveillance.
		And that's what HARP offered that was different from the prior technology.
		But the other issue is this whole idea of locating underground facilities, whether it's Korea or Iraq or now Afghanistan, this technology is critical when you're fighting in this kind of war environment.
		It's a much different environment.
		Being able to look into the earth offers incredible advantages.
		And we're talking about not just a few hundred feet, but perhaps as many as several kilometers deep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's what I was going to ask.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How far down can they see, and with what sort of resolution do you imagine?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Well, from what's been described, pretty high resolution, and even going back to technologies developed in the 80s, there was a guy named Brooks Agnew.
		He was doing work in earth-penetrating tomography using very, very low amounts of power, but creating a resonance signal that easily transferred through the earth and came back even back in, say, the 80s, with enough computing power available then to analyze with what he described as 99.9% accuracy,
		and that was analyzing 26 known drilling cores done by Halliburton, oil and gas, in nine different states through various types of strata.
		And they had that kind of accuracy in determining what was there, and even to the grade of the oil and gas, which is pretty phenomenal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Over the years, we have tracked HAARP as it began, as they said, what it was going to be, as the signals actually went on the air.
		And of course, they had plans to go to extremely high power output.
		And I'm wondering what's going on in that arena.
		Where are they in the project now?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is interesting because, you know, all the time that we, I guess the alternative media has been reporting on this.
		Finally, MSNBC did a story just in the last few days.
		It was on, I think, the 29th or 28th of November.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I saw it.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, one of the things that they indicated very clearly is where this technology is based in the fact that the full power contracts that are being negotiated now, even in the last few weeks, with Arco Power Technologies, Inc., which was later bought out by eSystems and then Raytheon Corporation, has actually begun the negotiating process for full power.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		For full power figures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One billion watts of effective radiator power.
		That's amazing.
		Dr. Begich, hold on.
		We'll be right back.
		Well, we are at war.
		But a billion watts.
		We'll talk about what it might affect as the program goes on.
		And it might affect you.
		Or it might even be affecting you now.
		Who knows?
		Or they might find Osama Benluck.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		Sweet dreams are made of the ins.
		Who am I to disagree?
		I travel the world and the seven seas.
		Everybody's looking for something.
		Some of them want to use you.
		Some of them want to get used by you.
		Some of them want to...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I think I'm caught up now in my commercials.
		And once again, here's Dr. Nick Begich.
		So, a billion watts of effective radiated power.
		That's an enormous amount of power.
		Enough so that, and we're just covering this as quickly as we can, along with looking at underground tunnels and bunkers and all the rest of it, topography, all the rest of it.
		There could be biological effects on human beings because if it can get underground, it has to first go through those who are above ground.
		That would be us.
		So there could be biological effects.
		What do you imagine them to be?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		In fact, this, again, was a major area of interest to us because it turns out that extremely low frequency signals can have a tremendous effect on human physiology.
		In fact, there was an article that was published in, it was called Decoding the Minds and Foiling Adversaries.
		It was in Signal Magazine 2001, October's issue.
		And this is the Armed Forces Communications and Electronics Association's journal.
		And when they were talking about sort of new technologies that affect human behavior, one of the things they remind us of in that article is the event in Japan where the flicker of a light coming off of a television screen was sufficient to cause 700 children to have epileptic seizures a few years ago.
		And light coming from a television screen is considered harmless in most cases.
		But the flicker rate hit this extremely low frequency range, this particular range that allows for reactions within the brain.
		The same can be created by any number of external signal drivers, whether it were a flashing light signal from a television screen or even the very subtle energy returning to the earth after a heartburst.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could cause like a seizure or a grandma's seizure or something.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		If you hit the right window frequencies, this is where these effects can occur.
		In the case of the flickering light, it affected that same portion of the brain that would be responsible for the visual system.
		But at the same time, what they have found is any number of carriers can create the same effect.
		The idea of using even a signal embedded, say, on a radio broadcast or a television broadcast, this is something that was reported to have been used in the Gulf War, something the Scottish media reported after the events.
		But the idea of using a system like HAARP where you're trying to create an earth-penetrating, say, tomography application where you're looking into the Earth to see what's under the surface of the ground, that same signal could actually have a tremendous impact on the people living there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As a matter of curiosity, what do we know about the coverage area?
		In other words, as it comes back down to Earth after bouncing off the ionosphere, What would the coverage area be like?
		Do you have any idea, Doctor?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, the thing about HARP is you've got to be able to reflect the signal over the horizon to a certain level.
		But what they've done is they've essentially built a number of transmitters of a similar nature.
		We now know of at least two additional transmitters in Alaska.
		A number have been built across Canada.
		In fact, one researcher, Rosalie Bertel, who had done quite a bit of work, she's a physicist and an MD, published a book in Europe on the Canadian system, and then there's also the Izikat system in Europe.
		So, you know, it's not just HARP anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, even understanding that, let's just talk about HAARP for a second.
		That facility, let's say it went looking for underground bunkers.
		In other words, I understand the signal is very narrow as it hits the ionosphere with the effects we've talked about.
		But as it comes back down to do its mapping, how big would that area be?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		What they're saying in the literature is that the ionosphere for about 1,000 miles would convert to an antenna.
		So you've got a broadcast antenna 1,000 miles long starting in Alaska.
		So over the horizon going down towards the equator, could it reach Afghanistan?
		I'm not sure how those angles actually work out, but you've got a very high elevation.
		You've got plenty of distance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But what I'm asking, maybe I'm not making myself clear.
		How much of an area on the ground at any given moment would you be looking at?
		Would it be a mile, 10 miles, 100 miles?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		On scale, we're talking about a hemispheric view with the right technologies used with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		This with the right technology on the ground to interpret the signal coming back or traversing the ground, you can cover a huge, huge area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy smokes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, then if you're talking about a hemispheric view, you're talking about a potential hemispheric effect.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		And we're talking about huge amounts of energy directed in a way never contemplated before.
		At the same time, what the research showed at Stanford University is interesting is that if you hit certain window frequencies, just like triggering those instabilities in the human mind, you can create instabilities in the ionosphere.
		In the VLF range, it was found that once the signal reaches the upper ionosphere, which is several hundred kilometers out, and couples with the magnetosphere, VLF energy generated in the right frequency range causes the amplification effect of up to 1,000 times.
		And what happens is it picks up on the energy that's there and triggers the release of energy that's already available.
		And that's where HAARP has perhaps the greatest risk and the greatest potentials from a military perspective, is this sort of nonlinear effect, this ability to take a small amount of energy and then create a huge amount of energy.
		Absolutely.
		And this is, again, you know, and sort of the rush to these kinds of dilemmas is the idea that, okay, now the science will sort of accelerate.
		There weren't very many controls on this to begin with.
		Now there's even less.
		And I think that can be problematic for lots of different reasons.
		And I think the reasons that we've been writing and saying what we have for the last six or seven years has been really to try and avoid sort of the rush to panic or the rush to enact a lot of law without a lot of consideration.
		And I think a careful review of the history and the evolution of these technologies is pretty clear on what the risks can entail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're always going to balance potential risks against current potential risks to all of us.
		In other words, it's all a scale.
		And I'm sure that what's going on right now is tipping the balance very much in their direction, both politically, and of course that's going to mean money too, right?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Big dollars.
		I mean, the missile defense system, you know, we were tracking it back in 95, and we said back then that this would lead to the eventual abrogation or renegotiation of the ABM Treaty, which is exactly what the dialogue has been about the last few years.
		And in Earth Rising, when we really got into the subject of sort of where does the missile defense system goes, to a certain extent, we think a lot of it's been sort of misdirected.
		I mean, when you look at missile-to-missile intercepts, we think that's a misdirection.
		The real interest is in new energy technologies that can intercept missiles, but more importantly, the idea is to be able to detect before the launch and avoid the problem to begin with.
		And that's where the earth-penetrating tomography comes in.
		That's where some of the more sophisticated surveillance technologies actually start to play into the formulas of national defense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we can expect HAARP will probably get more money and more support, and they'll head toward a full power status faster.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		In fact, that's just a given.
		And, you know, the way that the country is postured on this, which is kind of interesting, is they basically said, look, we're going to build the whole system.
		And when we're all done, we won't be in violation of the treaty unless we throw the switch.
		And, you know, yeah, I know.
		I react the same way.
		It's like, if the Chinese were saying that to us, we would not be standing still, nor have the Chinese nor the Russians.
		But things are in flux right now.
		There's a lot of political trade-offs being orchestrated that maybe wouldn't have happened even a few months ago.
		So who knows?
		I mean, I personally think the missile defense system is going to go through.
		I don't have any doubt in my mind that whatever problems the Russians have used to negotiate whatever it is they're looking for in life these days is going to happen, and we're going to see this thing advance.
		And I think the idea of international terrorism as a catalyst for a whole lot of change, that is here to stay.
		And I think what we saw on September 11th is the first volley in a very long and drawn-out conflict that's going to create a much different world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes.
		One great defense against terror, of course, would be if you could read minds.
		If you could read minds.
		Oh, my, if you could read minds.
		Well, you know something about that, don't you?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		In fact, again, this whole idea of sort of looking at the human being as the prime driver in military operations, I think we all can understand that.
		And what's changed and what started showing up in the literature even a couple of decades ago, but more so recently, is this idea that attacking the human being in a much more different way by affecting the brain itself.
		And this has resulted in numerous patents and technologies, but the latest is a couple of things that showed up, again, in military journals.
		One of them is the idea of being able to literally tell what emotional state or even specific thoughts an individual might have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a mind-reading machine.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Right, exactly right.
		And the way they're doing this, it's interesting, is it requires huge amounts of computing power in order to interpret the complex signals of the human brain and then establish sort of patterns that are repeated no matter which human brain is monitored while they're thinking very specific thoughts.
		So it takes a while to build the database, but as computing capacity increases, this becomes...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, is that...
		In other words, the sonar, if it gets a bit of a listen, can actually goes right into the computer and it spits out exactly what class, in fact, what boat it is.
		And so they know exactly what submarine they're hearing, even at a great distance.
		Are they doing the same thing basically with the human mind, listening to it and discerning between, as they do between submarines and whales and other sea life?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		And this is probably the most startling technology that we're going to see in the next decade emerge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy moly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they're mapping the human brain the way it works when it thinks certain things, and they're building a mind-reading machine.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		More or less.
		In fact, in Air and Space for the 21st Century, which was put together by the Air Force Science Advisory Board a number of years ago, one of their predictions for the next, well, now it would be about 15 years, is the idea that you'd be able to actually delete complete memory sets and create synthetic ones and replace them with them.
		In other words, the ultimate training tool for military trainers would be this type of technology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean, delete memory sets?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		In other words, a complete memory configuration, say a whole portion of your given memory could be erased, just like hitting the delete button on a computer.
		But again, you're talking about sort of the futuristic views of some of the military planners, but when you look at it collectively, and I guess that's what we do, is we look at it sort of over the course of time and try and put it in one place.
		And when you look at it, from a military perspective, the idea of being able to come in and, say, train a technical person in a relatively short period of time by being able to do this might be highly advantageous.
		But the problem comes in, and this was voiced by a guy named Shmirnov, who worked in the psychocorrection labs in the Soviet Union, the mind control labs of the former Soviet Union, USSR Academy of Sciences.
		And he actually said that, and others have repeated this, is the idea that you bypass the normal mental filters when information is put in in this way.
		In other words, you don't have that portion of the brain that filters out right and wrong, good and evil.
		Essentially, it's, as he said, like a commandment of God.
		It can't be resisted once that information is loaded in.
		So it's very first ways.
		The ultimate hypnosis, if you will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But in terms of reading minds, we'll get to affecting minds here in a second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really what you're talking about.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even reading minds, how would you, for example, delineate between, let's say I was in a state where I was really pissed at my boss or my wife or somebody close to me, oh, raging angry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How would they delineate between that and somebody who had intent to do, you know, had a bomb or whatever all?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Well, kind of the way they see that, at least the first generations of this, is they're really trying to eliminate what they consider to be the highest risk potentials.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		And this is, again, where these technologies are sloppy in their infancy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the answer is they might not delineate.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		They may not be able to finally hone it.
		At least I would not expect the first generation of this kind of device to be able to discern one kind of anger from another, but pick up those portions of the brain that are associated with anger in most people and be able to deduce that somebody is angry.
		So they maybe subject you to the search that the other guy doesn't get.
		But again, this is sort of the beginning, at least in the public literature, of a desired objective of military planners for at least two decades.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or it might not be anger, Doctor.
		It might be a commitment to die for a cause that you believe absolutely in.
		I mean, that kind of thing could be detected.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, essentially what they're saying is, again, sort of pushing towards this sort of transparency of the human being.
		This is the ultimate lie detector, if you will.
		I mean, it'll determine all kinds of basic information that they already know from the basic mapping of the brain that we already have completed.
		The thing that becomes interesting is when you start to think about not just the idea of reading what's there, but manipulating what's there, you know, then where does it, you know, it starts to raise all kinds of cloudy questions like what happens to the rules of evidence in court proceedings?
		What happens to training?
		And who decides who educates children and what technologies might be used in the future?
		And who's going to decide what the curriculum is?
		I mean, lots of questions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The applications for crime.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Oh, unbelievable.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, when you look at just the whole idea of technologies advancing in these areas and the idea that very little regulation constraining the use is being considered, but a great deal is being done right now to allow sort of free reign of a number of organizations to develop new technologies with even more autonomy and less scrutiny.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, aren't all these machines, They're going to run right into the Fourth Amendment, aren't they?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		You know, you run into a number of questions start to come up, not just in terms of rules of evidence, but I mean, think about First Amendment liberties that start off with the freedom to think freely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, hold on.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		Boy, talk about running into the Fourth Amendment.
		Holy man, well, they could look into your mind, or even worse, actually hit the delete key on parts of your memory and your thinking.
		And so those are the things we're working on, huh?
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		Well, I think it's time to get ready To realize just what I have found I have been only half of what I am It's all clear to me now Once again, Dr. Nick Begich.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Begich, I can't imagine a bigger violation of human rights than either to have your mind read even under present circumstances, or even worse yet, to have memories deleted.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's unimaginable.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		You know, this whole area of what many have now coined the phrase mind control technologies, which is really what it's about.
		I mean, we've looked at this issue for years, and just what shows up in the public literature is pretty astounding.
		I mean, New World Vistas, Air and Space for the 21st Century, the ancillary volume, which was put together by the Science Advisory Board for the Air Force, it's pretty incredible the kinds of things that they expect to see happening.
		Not only the ability to interpret the signals of the brain, but actually be able to even talk to an adversary.
		In fact, in one line of that document, I'll read it because it's pretty clear what it's intended to imply.
		It says, it would also appear possible to create high-fidelity speech in the human body, raising the possibility of covert suggestion and psychological direction.
		Thus, it may be possible to talk to selected adversaries in a fashion that would be most disturbing to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, they would hear voices?
unidentified		Absolutely.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		You know, in that opening hour, there was the guy that was talking about...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And this is a pretty standard issue that we get confronted with fairly frequently.
		Over the years, we hear from people regularly that complain about it.
		And the problem, of course, is figuring out who is really indeed being inflicted by perhaps an experimental technology and who is just having a lot of other problems.
		But it's pretty tough to discern.
		I mean, we can't figure it out from where we sit in a lot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Difficulty in discernment.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		In fact, if you go back to the 1960s and 70s when the first experiments in this area were being done, the MKUltra work, one of the things that was concluded from those investigations was they picked out people in ordinary walks of life to see what the effect would be, because that would be the real effect in an environment where you would use such a technology.
		And when you think about this, recently we've heard the war of asymmetric warfare, this idea of throwing something at the adversary totally unexpected and unanticipated.
		And we've been saying the adversary, in this case, terrorists are doing this to us, but in fact, this is a double-edged sword.
		Any new technology introduced in the battle environment has those components, the idea of unexpected and unanticipated and essentially no way to guard against.
		And we've used those new technologies in every conflict we've been involved in since probably the Middle Ages when gunpowder was first introduced.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you heard my first hour, you heard my comments, I think, about what I believe with respect to the sun's activity, the solar cycle, its effect on our magnetic field, and its effect on all of us.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you know, there was a guy that did a study on that some years ago, and it was pretty interesting.
		I can't remember the guy's name, but he went back, you know, all through the various periods of depressions and major conflicts and analyzed that against solar activity and found that there were great correlations.
		And the same is true, you know, about the, if you think about the sun's effect on the moon when the light is polarized, when it's reflected off the moon, and the idea of lunacy or the word lunatic coming from associations with the moon.
		Well, you know, that's statistically borne out in modern studies of the effects of lunar activity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I know.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		And again, you're talking about really solar energy bouncing off of the moon, being polarized, and then coming back.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		And perhaps that's even more of a dramatic effect, the idea of polarized light affecting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, perhaps so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But here we are talking about specifically designed high-intensity weapons, which are basically, when you think about it, using the same sort of technological effect that, right?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think that's correct.
		Because one of the things, when you look at, for instance, going back to HARP for a moment, when you look at what HARP's intended to do is modify the ionosphere, this area of our environment is responsible for clean communications.
		Well, when solar activity disturbs the ionosphere, those communications don't take effect.
unidentified		That's right.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		A lot of strange things can happen with power grids and sensitive electronics.
		But the idea of being able to deliberately do this and then perhaps having not just effects on machines, but also effects on human beings.
		In fact, there was a Chinese report that came out some months ago that was released by the Central Intelligence Agency before all of this nonsense arose with just the whole approach to terrorism.
		When they were still releasing data, one of the things that came out was a Chinese sort of initiative in new technologies along these same lines, some targeting just hardware, some human beings or the modern software, and then some combination of each.
		And energy weapons really are the essence of not just surveillance technology, but deliberate replacements for ordinance with a specific idea in mind.
		And one of those comes out, you know, again, in earlier press reports on these kinds of issues.
		One of the things that came up with the whole development of what are called non-lethal technologies shows up with a quote.
		This is from a paper called Non-lethal Technology and Air Power, a Winning Combination for Strategic Paralysis by Air Chronicles, written in, I guess it was 97.
		And what it says is, if we use non-lethal technology to achieve paralysis, eliminate unintentional killing, and erase signs of visible destruction, then perhaps in some situations we can rid the news of sensationalism without a riveting story to tell the medium, media may be silenced, unquote.
		That's pretty disturbing when you think of the motivation behind scientism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's disturbing, all right.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		I mean, just the whole idea of creating sort of neat killing events that don't create the clutter of destruction.
		I mean, that's basically what it's saying.
		This idea that we can somehow kill politely, I suppose, is what's denoted there.
		And that disturbs me, I think, more than anything.
		I mean, when we wrote Earthrising the Revolution, it was written as a warning for exactly the circumstances we find ourselves in today.
		The idea that fear and panic has gripped the country, gripped the globe in a way where people are running to what they think is safety, when, in fact, if we give up all of these things, if we sort of set them aside and accept this sort of big brother mentality, then maybe these guys really did win.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, I know you comment a lot on politics, so let me ask you about this.
		Tonight, we received, today, yesterday now, my time zone, we received another warning from our own government of something potentially coming or about to happen.
		Not specific.
		It's never specific.
		It just sort of says, they sort of say, well, here's a warning.
		We have credible, nonspecific information that something bad may be about to happen.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think of the concept of saying that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What does that accomplish?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Well, it doesn't accomplish a lot.
		I mean, a nonspecific threat basically makes, creates, again, an environment of fear.
		And I can tell you, when you look at what occurs with human beings in an environment of fear, if you look at the brain activity, just in basic terms of brain activity of humans in fear and panic, you cannot make rational decisions.
		Odds are, if you make any rational decisions, it'll be pure chance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
		And listen, people who are either angry, anger masks rationality, of course, and fear masks it as well.
		Both of those cause you to make completely irrational decisions, and you've got to sort of recognize you're in that state and refrain from making important decisions.
unidentified		Right.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		And this is, again, why I think writers and researchers who have taken these subjects on have tried to take them on in an environment of calm rather than an environment of uncertainty.
		And that's, you know, when you look at the rush through legislation, you know, one of the big things was this anti-terrorism bill, which I guess they renamed the Patriot Bill.
		And, you know, the thing about it is, you know, there was a big call for sunset provisions so that it would be re-looked at in 2004, I believe, or 2005.
		The problem was, even with the sunset provisions in the bill, there were a number of sections excluded from those sunset provisions.
		You know, those excluded sections are important for maintaining at least the level of civil liberties we once enjoyed in the state.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay.
		Remember to say good and close to the phone for me.
		What specifically in that bill do you feel like we ought to be most concerned about?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		The authority to share grand jury information.
		This is information before there's an indictment, before there's a sense of guilt.
		The procedures for disclosure of information are not sunsetted under this provision.
		The employment of translators, that's understandable.
		Designation of judges and new courts.
		The idea and scope of subpoenas for records of electronic communications aren't sunsetted in this.
		Some clarifications as to scope are really unclear.
		The authority for delaying notice of the execution of a warrant is not sunsetted under this provision.
		And the delays can be as long as 90 days.
		Modification of authorities relating to the use of pen registers and traps and trace devices.
		This is using new technologies for electronic communications.
		The idea of single jurisdiction search warrants for terrorism, that's probably understandable.
		Trade sanctions, that's probably understandable.
		But the assistance to law enforcement agencies is ill-defined, and probably the biggest, most glaring is any ongoing investigation, but that's not well-defined.
		So does that mean every group that we tag or name in the course of the next four years that we say are now open to investigation, they're not going to sense it under this provision, which could be every single organization under the sun that might be slightly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so then with liberal interpretation, they can almost do anything.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		And the thing about it is the agencies granted this authority, the Central Intelligence Agency and the FBI, are agencies that periodically, and even in the weeks before the September 11th event, were being called on the carpet for inappropriate use of their power and authority and poor management and mismanagement of evidence and other considerations in a number of major investigations.
		These are the very same people now that we have vested additional powers, additional ability to reach into our private lives without additional accountability.
		And that's another major flaw in this legislation, the accountability factor.
		All right, if we're going to give them more rules and regulations in terms of what it's going to do to us in terms of privacy, then let's hold them to a higher standard of accountability, not a lower standard of accountability.
		If American civil liberties are being set aside, then let's ask those charged with responsibility of guarding those civil liberties to be accountable for what mistakes they might make in the process.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know how you set that balance up properly.
		In other words, if you are going to find the bad guys, you are going to end up breaking some eggs for the omelet.
		There's no question about it.
		You're going to end up violating some civil liberties.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		There's no way around it.
		I think there's at least at some point I agree that we have to sort of recognize the position we're in, but at the same time, this is where sunset provisions in these laws, you have the Congress telling us they are there when, in fact, they are not there.
		They are there only in part.
		I think those are the important provisions that need to exist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but the nature of warfare, Dr. Begich, has changed.
		I mean, it really, really changed this time around, and it's liable to continue that change.
		Conventional warfare against a country like ours is futile.
		It's not going to happen.
		They're going to come at us in different ways, and so we need different ways to protect ourselves.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		And I agree with that.
		And I think that's, again, where those different ways, as we look at each of these things, need to be developed in concert with good, smart domestic law.
		Let's look at the anti-terrorism implications again.
		You know, recently, the anti-terrorism bill was passed that had a whole lot to do with the use of the Internet for terrorist acts.
		But, you know, for other forms of harassment, laws that protect American citizens still don't exist on the books in most states, including this one, where a person can take your identity, set up a website, do all kinds of things in your name, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, and I cannot understand why there has not been some sort of regulation or enforcement in that area.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		And some of us, me included, have been victimized by that very event.
		Sure, sure, sure.
		And even since September 11th, and you know, if you call the FBI and complain today as a private citizen for that kind of an infraction?
		Good luck.
		Yeah, they don't have time to even return your call.
		And the sad story is, is who's watching the rest of the hen house of the United States right now in terms of federal law enforcement?
		And it's getting a little bit scant in terms of the other things.
		The other issue that comes up with a highly surveyed society, which is essentially what is happening, it's not necessarily the sophisticated terrorist that becomes the headline, but they'll actually be targeting probably less sophisticated individuals, which will give the appearance of some sense of control.
		But in fact, they're catching people they probably would have caught in any case over time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I went to the Super Bowl with my wife last year, and when we got back, we found out we had all been scanned.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That our faces had been scanned as we came in.
		And apparently, this is a growing, really quickly growing technology.
		And I wonder how good it is.
		In other words, if you were in some way disguised, would that fool a camera?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Yes, actually, they're pretty good.
		I mean, the percentages still of failure is high as well.
		I don't want to overstate their capacity.
		In Great Britain, where they're used extensively, and again, Earthrising talks a lot about what happened in Great Britain with the development of this technology, first for crime neighborhoods and then in a broader scale.
		But they're used there.
		They're used in neighborhoods in Florida.
		They're also used in a number of neighborhoods in terms of developing the technology around the country.
		But the Secret Service actually is going to be monitoring the Super Bowl again this year with technology.
		I assume they're going to use the same again because it was fairly effective.
		They were able to pick out felons.
		And the technology, if you get a good straight-on shot, they can even go through facial hair and disguises of various kinds because essentially you're picking out really detailed markers in terms of the facial markers and comparing photographic images and so on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they claim that in this last attempt at the Super Bowl, they didn't make any arrests as a result of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I would take it it was more of a test of the technology.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And this has been, again, the idea of sort of scanning a crowd.
		Think about it in terms of the evolution of some of the, again, why I'm concerned about civil liberties, the evolution of these non-lethal technologies and surveillance technologies, and then the deployment of those into regional police forces for things like monitoring protests like the WTO, the idea of having your face scanned in a crowd when you're assembling peaceably.
		And the concern comes up when you look at the original protocols from 1994 between Department of Defense and the Department of Justice where the development of non-lethals under a priority were those that could be used both domestically, for policing purposes, and overseas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Doctor, hold it right there.
		We're at the bottom of the yard and we'll be right back.
		I'm Martell.
		I don't know if I'm feeling better.
		The other side of the argument is, you know, I haven't done anything wrong.
		I don't want to be terrorized.
		And if checking my face will catch somebody, checking faces, maybe I shouldn't mind if mine is checked.
		The question is how far it goes.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, all the way from the great state of Alaska, Dr. Nick Bigich.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Bagich, you're back on again.
unidentified		Great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I, you know, I just, I have such mixed feelings about all of this.
		I was saying as we went into the break, you know, there is the attitude that I haven't done anything wrong.
		I'm an honest legal citizen, at least fairly so.
		And, you know, I can handle having my face scanned to see if I'm a bad guy, a terrorist, or a felon.
		And I'm not worried about it because I haven't done anything wrong.
		You know, there is that attitude about this kind of thing.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		And that's an important point, I think a well-made point.
		And just before the break, when we were talking about this joint protocol between Justice and Department of Defense, one of the things that it says that people that will be subject to this technology are Those that are opposed to government policy or adversaries of the government, as are defined loosely in that document.
		The thing is, it's anyone that opposes American policy.
		That would be anyone that stands up and says, hey, look, I don't like what our government is doing.
		I think it ought to be a different way.
		That happens to be the very cornerstone of this democratic republic, the idea that we can openly dissent, have those kind of conversations, and result in something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or thoughts.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
		Or thoughts, in particular, the things that lead to being able to have those specific ideas.
		But let's take a look at that for a second, and let's look at where the technology goes.
		If you start to think about the idea that how many times in our lives have we thought something that we actually didn't do because it was wrong, you're right.
		I mean, who can count those times, right?
		Now, all of a sudden, now your activity that goes on in the brain is suspect because you might have thoughts that you don't act on.
		Now, that is, to me, the greatest of invasions, the idea that even within the privacy of your home is one thing, within the privacy of your mind is another.
		And now, in this modern age, the digital doorway to who you are in terms of how much information is housed about you outside of your home, that's a whole nother concept that the law and the technology sort of haven't kept up with each other.
		But how we approach these things should be with a whole lot of discussion to make sure private rights are protected.
		In other words, those rights that keep people from stealing our identities, from doing things that are damaging to us because the technology allows them to and the law doesn't prevent them from it.
		This, again, it doesn't just work with governments.
		It works with individuals.
		I mean, let's look at just technologies for influencing behavior.
		One of the things that we point out in the mind control section of Earth Rising is this idea of what are called silent subliminals, the very thing used in the Gulf War for creating fear and panic by putting messages or at least emotional signals on the broadcasts of Muslim songs and prayers going into the battle environment.
		The same technology was used in Japan, and there's actually a United States patent for putting silent subliminals on the music and department stores for dissuading shoplifters.
		Well, the same might be used for encouraging shopping rather than dissuading.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, of course.
		How effective is it?
		As a matter of interest, these subliminals, for example, in discouraging shoplifting, they must have some stats by now on how much less shoplifting goes on where there are subliminals versus not.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Well, what their conclusions were in the articles that we quote from were that it was a significant and dramatic effect.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		They didn't give a precise percentage, but now take into consideration what's already in the public literature about creating specific states of emotion within the human brain from external signals, whether it be modulated sound signals, or whether it be flashing lights or strobes or a combination of sound and light signals or even signals embedded within radio broadcasts, as an example.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Radio or TV.
		I know many, many years ago, it seems to me at the beginning of television there was some commercial use of subliminals until it became outlawed.
		Is that correct?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		That's the story as it goes.
		But, you know, I've yet to track down the laws specific on that issue.
		And when you look at sort of what's happened since, and this is, again, what we found in researching some of the laws up here in Alaska on telecommunications, the industry hasn't kept up.
		The laws haven't kept up.
		What's illegal to do on a phone line is legal to do on the Internet.
		Again, because of poor definitions within law and technologies that didn't exist when laws were written.
		When you're talking about subliminal specific words or phrases embedded on a screen, that effect is known as a 25th frame effect today, saying that every 25th frame in a movie sequence can create this sort of really deep, hypnotic, almost like ability to impress a person.
		What they did in Russia and was demonstrated on a show on Canadian broadcasting called Undercurrents February 7th of 99 was a program on mind control where they actually showed Russian scientists using this, using computer screens essentially and suggesting that the same thing could be driven through the Internet if somebody had the desire and the interest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, I've been watching a lot of CBC lately.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They are a very, very good news outlet.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, in terms of information, there's a lot out there.
		But at the same time, in terms of alternative media, a lot of what's reported in the mainstream is reported very, very late.
		I mean, look at the mainstream looking at HAARP today, where it's been at least in many people's radar screens for six years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
		All these six years we've been talking about on this show, and finally it hits MSNBC.
		That's right.
		That's right.
		It's something I said going into the break, and that is that all of these things that we've been talking about on this program, or many of them, that have sounded like silly science fiction for years, are now well in use and absolutely true.
		So you have to be very careful.
		I mean, I know that what you're talking about right now is research underway or even in use.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		In terms of, there's an article, a really excellent one.
		It's put out again by the U.S. Army War College, and it's called The Mind Has No Firewalls.
		And it's a couple years old now.
		But this got into a lot of the same technology.
		And one of the things that they suggested was that you could use any kind of carrier for creating huge effects in terms of just emotional states if that's what you were after.
		And in fact, that's much more easily achieved than, say, something as complex as a specific voice or a thought or something of this nature.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you just brought up something interesting.
		The mind has no firewall.
		What an interesting statement.
		Fine and true at the moment.
		But as these technologies develop, surely somebody out there is going to try and figure out a firewall.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
		I mean, for instance, for microwaves, one of the simple things for microwaves that works fairly effectively is a fine metal mesh screen, as an example.
		But depending again upon the carrier, and this is wherein lies the trick, is when you can use any number of carriers for bringing signals in, then you need very sophisticated filters for keeping them out.
		In fact, going again to the program broadcast in Canada, this idea of filters or chips embedded on computers, not for tracking urine going and outgoing, which is what we keep hearing about, but for keeping people out from doing exactly that.
		This technology is available now, but it's not installed in computers as a matter of routine, although the technology exists to do exactly that without these.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about tracking of humans?
		How far has GPS come?
		And I ask that because I read a recent book, a very good one, in which a CIA agent had a tracking device embedded in his, surgically embedded, in his body.
		A device that would allow a GPS satellite to track his very precise whereabouts.
		How close to something like that are we?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		We have that.
		We've had it since at least 1989, according, again, to a document, the Revolution Military Affairs in Conflict Short of War and the Revolution Military Affairs, which was put together by the U.S. Army War College by Metz, and I forget the other author, but they talked about a transponder technology for locating an individual.
		But the thing that's happened since then, now they can monitor heart rate, breathing, stress situations, the amount of sophistication of what you can pack into circuitry today, and then to get the body to accept it by the merger of essentially biological material and electronic substrates, perhaps even your own at some point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there are people walking around so implanted today?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		In fact, there's a whole lot of pets implanted this way these days.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there are, but that's kind of a more passive technology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm talking about the ability to track somebody globally.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and you can do it in a number of ways.
		An implantable technology is one.
		And the U.S. Army War College, when they wrote about it, they talked about it in terms of first military personnel going into combat situations so they could be located if wounded or hurt.
		And certainly if I were going into Afghanistan right now, I might want that option, provided I could get it out at the other end of the war.
		But we know about what goes into the skin of military personnel.
		They don't usually have much control of when it goes in and when it comes out.
		The other issue that comes up in that same document is the potential use of this same technology for business travelers.
		Of course, they suggest they wouldn't turn it on unless there were some conflict.
		The problem with all of that, it gets right back to where we are today, is first you talk about, and we can talk about the smart cards and the military personnel using them, and then we can talk about including some biometric material or information, whether it's a thumbprint or IRIS scan or even a voice print, interestingly enough, is something that can be captured.
		And under the new roving wiretap rules, you can actually pick out a person's voice if they transit monitored systems in as little as 4 to 20 seconds of voice information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does that mean that, for example, as you pass from cell to cell, if you're using a cell phone or, I don't know, even if you go to a pay phone, some computer somewhere is tracking you no matter where you go?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		If they're interested in your specific personhood and your voice is an attribute of that personhood, and it's programmed into the echelon systems or other systems that are available to intelligence community, every time you pick up a phone anywhere on the planet where a digital signal transits those systems,
		which is pretty extensive, almost everything, there's a high likelihood that they're going to pick out where you called, when you called, who you called, and whether it's a cell phone or a landline just on voice biometric information.
		And now with the roving wiretap rules, that can be applied readily to that kind of intelligence gathering.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So on the one hand, we could consider it a horrendous intrusion to our civil rights.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the other hand, it's an incredibly powerful weapon against the kind of thing that happened in New York on September 11th.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		And the thing to go back to that I go back to often when I think about the balancing question here is a statement by Zbigniew Brzezinski in his book Between Two Ages, which was written almost three decades ago now.
		And it was a predictor for where we'd be today, and it's quite accurate, dead accurate.
		And what he say about technology, if I can paraphrase, is that once it developed to the point of being able to control political outcomes, no matter who was in power, liberal or conservative, their interest in using that technology to further their political ends would probably go first instead of good judgment to restrain.
		And I think all of that, when you think about it, technology is used against us in many, many different ways, whether it's sophisticated spin of media and press releases or advertising or now even more sophisticated means, actual technologies that can bend the emotions and reframe the mind.
		And when you think about the sort of two-edged sword side of the story is there are some tremendous human potential applications here that could be quite good if in the right hands and with the right intent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's always a two-edged sword.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		And the thing is, what we also know about the advancement of technology is for all of us to keep up, our capacity as human beings needs to dramatically change as well.
		And we're pretty adaptive as creative creatures.
		So these adaptations of our technology to make us perhaps more fully What we're possibly capable of.
		Those are the exciting parts of the mind technology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, one thing seems clear: complain as we might about it, we're not going to stop it, are we?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		No, it's going to move forward.
		It's a question of how technology is used.
		And in today's world, what makes governments strong is, in fact, their technologies.
		And what makes democracy strong in this age is going to be the knowledge of the average citizen of those technologies and how they might rightly be applied.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Americans, Dr. Begich, are a very stubborn, willful people, and they would never allow their government to simply impose these apparent violations of our privacy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But in fact, the way it's likely to happen is the people themselves will demand it, won't they?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and this is again, you know, it goes right back to what we were writing two years ago.
		It's exactly how we said it.
		In fact, that's the old story, you know, when you go back in history is whenever security has been at risk, people are willing, or whether it's food and starvation or whether it's the threat of warfare, instill an event that's probably less likely to kill you, at least at this stage, than a traffic accident or medical malpractice for that matter in any given year.
		But the point is, we have a tremendous environment of fear in which we're ready to sort of look the other way as a whole lot of things change.
		And the idea that, well, you know, if we don't have anything to hide, well, what if somebody disagrees with what you fundamentally believe as a human being, as an individual person, things that you're free to believe, but someone disagrees and thinks that's a threat?
		Who's going to draw those lines and who's going to make those determinations?
		And this is where things done in secret and in closed doors and without accountability breed contempt of the average human.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are many who believe that there is an intentional manipulation of events to bring about exactly this clamor so that this technology can be implemented.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you go that far?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, whether, you know, it's kind of the chicken and the egg equation, you know, I think people that are basically insecure and paranoid and militaries tend to be that way because that's kind of their job, I guess, in one sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is, sort of, yes.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and so, you know, there's a lot that's maybe given up in the course of that, and sometimes I think it's like mission loss.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		But the point is, I think we can really drift a long way in the wrong direction at this particular time because of just the circumstances that we're in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but these people imagine these vast conspiracies, orchestrating events.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't see that because I know too much about government to know how inefficient they truly are.
		I'm with you.
		I mean, seriously, they really are.
		But in terms of people's motives, you know, and I kind of see this in both ways.
		I think there's a lot of good people doing a million really good things, and whether we recognize or not, we're intricately connected.
		And if you're on the outside looking in, you'd swear it was a conspiracy.
		And the same can be said for those people that are creating evil in the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is your latest book?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		The latest is Earth Rising the Revolution, which was written now almost two years ago.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		And we're just coming out with sort of a follow-on that we've had on a delay since September, basically to try and integrate some of the new stuff that's coming up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it's not yet available?
		Not yet.
		Earth Rising is available now in bookstores and Amazon.com and so forth, right?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		In fact, that particular title, every single subject we've covered tonight was covered in that two years ago, and all of these subjects now are certainly making the mainstream in half.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, we'll say more about that in a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Willing to take some calls?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're bringing off the hook, so we'll do that.
		Stay right where you are.
		Dr. Nick Bigich is my guest.
		Pretty chilling stuff, huh?
		Or does it make you feel safer?
		I'm Arbell.
		is Coast to Coast AM.
		Calls for Dr. Begich coming up next, and it might be you.
unidentified		My sweet Lord My Lord My Lord I really want to see you Really want to see you I love you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I've had him long enough.
		Dr. Nick Begich is now all yours.
		Dr. Begich, if you're ready, there's lots of people who want to talk to you.
		All set?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		I'm all set.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Let's go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's rock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you are on the air with Dr. Nick Begich way up north in Alaska.
unidentified		Yeah, hi, Art.
		Hello.
		Hey, I just wanted to share my experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I was a victim to the mind control.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
unidentified		And I know for sure that somebody was actually reading my mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you know that?
unidentified		Because there were others that commented, like, hey, he's a mind reader.
		And I don't know.
		It's like now I'm afraid to do anything wrong at all.
		It's because I know that other people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying an individual, right?
unidentified		Yeah, an individual that I was actually friends with for a while, who I believe is maybe in mafia or something like that.
unidentified		Well, maybe a CIA agent or something like this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe.
		But actually, that does bring up another avenue of research.
		We know the government for years and years, Doctor, investigated various methods, including remote viewing, of discerning things with human assets.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
		In fact, again, sort of the area that's, I think probably the most disturbing of all when you look at all of this is what's already occurred, not even with the laws already on the books.
		There was a comment made by Secretary of Energy O'Leary when she was in that position, and her suggestion was that over a half a million Americans have been subject to some form of human experimentation over a 40-year period without their consent.
		A half a million is what they acknowledged publicly, and who knows to what extent it went beyond that.
		But mind control technologies were subject of congressional investigations during the mid-70s.
		It resulted in a thorough review of the Central Intelligence Agency.
		Unfortunately, a lot of the main documents were shredded at that time, but chemical means for controlling people's behavior were being looked at, including hallucinogenics like LSD.
		One of the things that wasn't well understood then but came out years later through Freedom of Information Act requests made by a researcher back east, a guy named Harlan Girard, got them.
		And they showed the financial transactions in the accounting department, the Central Intelligence Agency associated with those early programs.
		And there's actually an electromagnetic component going back to the use of electromagnetic fields or oscillating fields to change human behavior, even back to the 1960s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		That and LSD, you know, they said, well, yes, we did it.
		It was wrong.
		They compensated some people who were victims of all of that and basically said, and we don't do that kind of thing anymore.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, the reality is, and it's come out periodically, and again, this probably, of all the things that I've written over the years, this section of Earthrising was the most disturbing because the reality is, is periodically another report gets leaked, whether it's prisoners or whether it's minority populations.
		I mean, here last year in the budget, the federal budget, they settled with indigenous Alaskan natives for radioactive iodine experiments.
		A few years ago, it was black men in the southeast that were experimented on with syphilis to see how they would decay over a period of decades.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There were biological experiments in the San Francisco Bay Area.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		In fact, you can look at the history and the target populations in many cases were the most vulnerable, orphans, mentally retarded, handicapped prisoners.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pregnant women.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		In fact, just, you know, in terms of general experimentation, the reality is periodically it does surface and it gets found out and somebody's hands get slapped and they eventually drift right back in the same pattern once again.
		And this is the fear of many of the researchers in these areas when you consider, you know, it's hard to tell whether the last caller was talking about a technology that really was deployed against them or whether it was something else.
		And it's almost impossible to tell with this type of technology when it's used.
		And that's from the standpoint of an operator.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And actually, Doctor, no matter who would claim this, no matter who would claim, you know, my mind has been messed with.
		It's been read or it's been affected in some way.
		They would come off sounding crazy as a loon.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		And the fact of the matter is you can prove, well, you can easily prove the technology.
		I mean, just in the public domain, there's over three dozen U.S. patents showing the evolution of this technology from the early 60s to its present state.
		And if you look at the military literature on the subject and just what they confirm has already been achieved, it's pretty fantastic.
		And if you go back to sort of the earlier writings, I was trying to find that quote during one of the breaks from Brzezinski.
		And here's what he said.
		And it was specifically about mind control technologies.
		And he predicted this in 1973.
		He said, I foresee the time when we shall have the means and therefore inevitably the temptation to manipulate the behavior and intellectual functioning of all the people through environmental and biochemical manipulation of the brain.
		Unquote.
		I mean, this is, and what he based it on was the work being done at UCLA at the time with modulations that would create changes in emotional state.
		And one of the suggestions by J.F. Gordon McDonald at the time was that if you could ever figure out how to electronically stroke the ionosphere in just the right way, you could manipulate the behavior of populations over large geographic areas.
		And that's, interestingly enough, exactly what HAARP does almost 30 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly is.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Dr. Nick Begich in Alaska.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi.
		I've been personally experimented on and been exposed to the technology.
		I had called last year.
		Dr. Begich was on, and I called, but I got disconnected.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how do you know you've been experimented on?
unidentified		A year ago, a year and a half ago, I was at a concert.
		And during the concert, I not only seemed to have a perceptual shift, but I also heard what I would say would be voices in my head.
		It wasn't disturbing to me.
		It was surprising.
		It didn't make me afraid of what was going on.
		But since that time, I have had very strange experiences after that concert.
		I've had phone calls that are always unknown number, unknown name, but they're just tones, and they beep at certain frequencies over and over.
		I've had a black suburban drive by my home a year ago in the winter that shined a strobe light into my window.
		It was a pulsed light at 4.20 in the morning because I woke up from a strange dream and my computer hard drive started compiling for some reason and I looked up and a black suburban with cab lights drove by and shined a strobe light through the window.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's for a second assume that all of this really is everything you imagine it to be, exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think you would be the target of such technology?
unidentified		Well, in my opinion, during the coming times, like as you mentioned, the quickening, I think certain people on this planet have certain abilities that may be beneficial towards all of humanity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think you might be targeted specifically?
unidentified		I think that some people are more advanced in a spiritual way.
		And I think that those people may be able to help in the coming times.
		And I think that those people are being targeted specifically for group control effects.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you believe You're one of those people.
unidentified		I believe it has a correlation to that, and I'm still seeking the truth as much as possible.
		I've never really had anything like this happen.
		I've gone about and done a normal day's work in my life, but since that concert and since the specific experience where I heard certain tones and noises, and I felt my body heat up, and different perceptions happened, and continuing till this day, different things are happening.
		I see myself as a target in an experiment or a control atmosphere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you may well be.
		Very interesting, Doctor.
		If something like this was going to be done, a large gathering like the Super Bowl or a concert or some big event that would have many people at it would be a likely proper stage for an experiment of this sort, wouldn't it?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		I don't know necessarily.
		I mean, if you want to get some control or some kind of a real effect, you'd want to be able to direct it and know who you're directing at and follow up and see what the effects were.
		And you'd want some advance information on the person's behavior and so on to try and figure out whether they were deviations from their norm.
		And so I think it's a lot of the things that we get this basic kind of report probably a couple times a week by mail, by phone, in some manner.
		And the fact is you can't sort out the fact from the fiction in this sense.
		Everyone is sincere in what they're reporting and what they're observing.
		Obviously, they're in some kind of very horrible situation in most cases.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The trouble with all this is that when we get somebody who really is a victim of something like this, they're going to sound exactly like the last caller.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		And the problem is you can't sort it out.
		And the reality is, everyone that has objected to this technology, and if you go back to where lots of reports like this were being made and people were starting to look at this issue, you know, it does parallel in some cases the timelines of some of this.
		But, you know, you go back to the invention of radio and some people said about 1% of the population at the time said that it was affecting them in a negative way.
		And then years later, we discover this phenomena called the Tao's Hum, which affects about 1% of the population from all reports.
		So who knows what we might be seeing as a result of other things within our natural environment that are changing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But who is to say that some technological developments do not affect perhaps 1% or better of the population?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For example, they are studying the effects of microwaves on human beings.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just casual dispersed point-to-point microwaves here on Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the effect of big voltage electrical lines.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		All of these EM fields, as they interact with human beings, along with all of the added chemicals that we add to our environments and to our bodies, and everyone reacts a little bit differently.
		So what might be occurring and probably is occurring, and certainly there's research to show it in a number of fields, the idea that the interaction of these things are causing health effects that really are taking time to develop.
		But you look at things that are showing up presently as the various forms of cancers, stress-related illness, cardiovascular disease.
		And if you think about electromagnetic fields and just all the energy that surrounds us daily, I'll tell you when you really notice it, is when power failures occur.
		And it's not just the quiet of the moment, but actually you almost feel like a big letting out a deep breath, just like your whole body sort of contracts.
		And what that is, that sensation is, is the actual body no longer in a stress situation trying to find equilibrium, balancing against all of the subtle forms of energy.
		And that energy affects people in lots of different ways, whether it's deliberate or whether it just creates chemical imbalances that lead to other kinds of problems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remarkable.
		You're right about the parafailure.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Nick Begich.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Good evening, Dr. Begich.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Real quick question.
unidentified		You had said that, I guess at the height of the HARP, that they were looking at ERP was going to be, what, a billion watts?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It will be, yes.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
unidentified		Okay, and then you had said that bouncing off of the, I'm not sure which one of the...
unidentified		Okay, off the ionosphere, we're looking at a bounce as it came back off that, basically it was affected at 1,000 times more.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		What it was is striking the upper limits of the ionosphere and lower limits of the magnetosphere.
		Stanford research showed that you could actually create a VLF signal amplification by about 1,000 times tapping at a trillion watts.
		Huge potential, absolutely.
		And here's the other consideration, and that goes along with the sort of the way in which HARP is intended to be used, is by sending energy through the magnetic lines of force as waveguides.
		Normally, that energy is going from the South Pole to the North Pole.
		But as waveguides, this energy can sort of corkscrew its way around those magnetic lines of force, working their way to the South Pole, creating the over-the-horizon effects and certain applications for missile shields particularly.
		That was what was envisioned.
unidentified		Okay, when you're talking at that type of wattage, what are we talking about when it comes back off of the ionosphere back towards Earth?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Okay, we're talking about some different applications.
		In this case, when Stanford observed it with just standard VLF transmitters, what they saw come back to the Earth was what they described as an electron particle rain with the kind of energy that's possible with HAARP.
		They really don't know what the full effect is.
		Because one of the things that's pointed out is the idea of creating Instabilities and then trying to discover where the stabilities sort of reform.
		And that's actually stated.
		Emilston knows exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are the specific probable biological effects of something that strong?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Again, depending on what they do at the moment and what areas it covers, it could be very disruptive to DNA structures.
		One of the concerns as well with transmitters of this size is creating a hole in the ionosphere allows various kinds of particle streams to enter the environment that are screened out otherwise.
		And this, again, is one of the concerns expressed by scientists who opposed HAARP.
		The other consideration, and one that's kind of interesting, is it's again, it sort of depends on how it's used.
		The idea of creating chemical reactions in the upper atmosphere was one of the earlier thoughts with HARP.
		The idea of being able to, for instance, trigger those reactions that might lead to the creation of ozone or replenishment of ozone or knocking out specific pollutants were actually mentioned in the original patents and have never been, as we understand it, explored by anyone associated with HARP, which is unfortunate because this is a major problem leading to a lot of other problems on the planet right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, I'm sure it's nothing but just a little of the subject material affecting me, but I keep hearing these clicks on the phones.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		My lines, I am positive, are open for all kinds of scrutinies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, if it's a tap, it's an awfully crude tap.
		You're not supposed to hear tapped phones.
		No.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		You're not.
		And this is a dedicated single-line line, so I know it's not any other extensions in my house.
		But it's interesting in just the way sort of all of this evolves.
		You know, the work that I do used to be called investigative reporting.
		And about two years ago, the military coined a phrase called accumulators, where people who kind of peruse the public databases, whether they're libraries or internet or the combination of all kinds of things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's how the government does it.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, except, you know, and we've been very careful.
		I mean, we never touch and never have accepted any classified materials.
		Absolutely.
		And that's, I guess, what we specialize in and what gets the story out.
		And hopefully not in a destructive way, but a helpful way that gets that debate happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Doctor, hold on.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		We'll be right back.
		Another half hour with you and Dr. Begich.
		I'm Martell.
		is Coast to Coast AM in the nighttime.
unidentified		Mississippi in the middle of a dry spell Jimmy Rogers on the victro up high Karma's dancing, baby, on her shoulder The sun is setting like my license in the sky The sun is setting like my license in the sky Everything is falling down
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here's Dr. Nick Begich.
		Doctor, welcome back.
		Well, thanks.
		Okay, so many people waiting.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Nick Begich.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		I'm calling from St. Louis, Missouri.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, ma'am.
unidentified		Yes, I'd like to ask the doctor, years ago I saw a movie called The Manchurian Candidate.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And I was wondering, it sounded like, appeared to be science fiction, but now I'd like to ask you, is it possible to create a human killing machine?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's a good question, and I believe the answer is probably yes.
		In fact, the likelihood of the technology already being evolved to that point is pretty good, just given what we've already seen in the open literature and what's already acknowledged by military and academics.
		The idea that you can create sort of an override to the conscious mind, the part that filters out what is right and what is wrong, that's really pretty much universal in terms of people working in this field knowing that that can be accomplished.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As the clicks on the line continue, we'll click one.
		Will for the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Nick Begich.
		Hi.
		That button.
		All right, now you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, I'm Sheila.
unidentified		I'm just visiting here in California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I'm in the medical field in Ireland.
		And I think that there's a softening up in general of all the nations as far as getting rid of portions of the brain or the mind or whatever.
		This is being done through chemical abodes, ECT, electric shock therapy, you might call it hypnosis, all these different things that have been around almost forever through the field of psychiatry.
		And I feel with these people already being softened up and then exposed to what HAARP is intending, not only are they going to remove past portions of memory, but they're also going to remove any desire for a future because you're going to have a world full of zombies.
		Do you see where I'm coming from?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's certainly one possible result of the technology gone wrong, right, Doctor?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
		That's sort of the worst case.
		That's the Brave New World sort of revisited.
		In fact, that was one of Huxley's last major essays was an essay on sort of where the technology was going.
		And at that time, he figured we were 40 years ahead.
		That was 1959 when that was published.
		And when you look at sort of where we are today, it would boggle the mind.
		But the idea that we now have the ability for, again, two-edged sword.
		Let's look at some of the better applications.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's one way to approach it.
		She mentioned electroshock therapy.
		It's a sort of a last-line psychiatric defense, that and other things that they try.
		Now, at the very edge where they're dealing with people who are lost otherwise, they are doing two things.
		One, they're virtually experimenting medically on people.
		They are, and Two, they're gathering information for the development of these technologies, aren't they?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		In fact, you know, when you look at the development of an understanding of human mind and body, that's what leads to the development of better weapons, systems in order to exploit vulnerabilities.
		But at the same time, that basic knowledge are the key sort of the future of medical science in the sense that they start to unravel the mysteries of things like acupuncture, healing with hands, these things that are not understood, but essentially the transfer of modulated energy either by a tool or by a person.
		And these are the things that science is pointing more and more towards in terms of having profound physiological effect.
		But unfortunately, most of what's being learned is being used to really interfere or damage.
		And in some cases, I mean, even in the military literature, to be fair, a couple of things that are kind of interesting is one, they point to what they call anomalous functioning of the human mind and body.
		In other words, these extraordinary or sort of outer seventh sense kind of experiences of some individuals to explain if you can figure out enough about how energy works and maybe you can create people with greater capacities as human beings, demonstrating those anomalous things that only rare individuals do today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time Cora Lynn, you're on the air with Dr. Begotti Chitton, Alaska.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Dr. I was reading an article in the New England Journal of Medicine where they were trying to duplicate the actual intellectual level of our human beings, and I think they referred to this as the case of the Calvelli.
unidentified		I wanted to know if you could actually touch on that, if you're familiar with it.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Lynn should just elaborate a little bit, not by that name, that doesn't ring a bell.
unidentified		Yes, well, they say in the case of the Calvelli, what they were trying to do was the neural synapses of human beings, if they could replicate that, say if one person was a psychotic, they could actually duplicate it and study it in a lab.
unidentified		And it's known as the case of the Calvelli.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Essentially, recreating the signal and creating the same effect in another person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and there's been a number of experiments in this area or in the idea that you could do this.
		There was a gentleman doing work in this area who was a graduate of electrophysiology at the University of Madrid.
		He was doing work in the mid-70s at the University of Australia, Queensland, a guy named Michaela.
		And what he found and what he had shown is that you could, in fact, create by outside stimulus the same signals.
		And this is basically the easier signals to create or emotional because they tend to be just the way the signals are created.
		They're not so complex.
		Voice and that kind of information was something that was, I think, figured out a lot later and in different degrees of sophistication.
		When you look at whether they're microwave carriers or electromagnetic signals, there's a couple of patents on the books that actually demonstrate this ability.
		So, you know, the stuff has been around.
		I think what's really changed is a way in which it's starting to make it into, I think, the common literature.
		Even when you see military publications going into the major libraries talking about the potentials of this technology, it becomes pretty startling because no one's really challenging it.
		And yet, you know, this is the direction our militaries are going right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wild Cardline, you're on the air with Dr. Begish in Alaska.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yes, hello.
		Oh, I'm on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you're on.
unidentified		Oh, man.
		I have been listening to your show for years, and I have been looking forward to talking to Dr. Begins for a long time.
		I drive trucks in the Fairbanks and Anchorage at night since 1990.
		And we've noticed a friend of mine, myself, have noticed a weird change in the weather patterns in certain spots.
		And we were attributing it to the heart project because of, you know, we could hear certain things on our C D radios, like he was telling me was radar and stuff.
		You could hear it.
		It would come on, and there'd be long stretches of warm spots on the road.
		And at the same time, there was, we saw, I saw your book, and I'm kind of nervous right now.
		My friends are going to tease me for this, but Angels Don't Play This Harp.
		And it talked about animal migration, how they can mess with animal migration and mind control and stuff.
		You know what I'm talking about?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Okay, well, the caribou that usually stay in certain areas and travel certain patterns.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		They were running through Fairbanks and, you know, downtown in North Pole, which is way off their pattern.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And we've seen dull sheep in the Nana, which is flat.
		We talked to this trooper, and they said that they'd never heard of that before.
		And someone was saying every 200 years that they'll stray off their migratory pattern.
		But I've never heard of a dull sheep coming out of the mountain range into flats, you know, like Tamina Flats and stuff like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		How about that?
		Migratory patterns, that sort of thing, Doctor?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, one of the things that's been found out about most migratory species is they have small amounts of magnetite within the brain, a magnetic mineral, essentially.
		And they figure it acts like a switch, allowing them to sort of navigate and maybe is responsible for a lot more sensitivities than we're aware of.
		But again, when you talk about the high energy of systems like HARP, one of the problems that comes up is will it and can it interfere with the magnetic field lines of the Earth?
		And it's actually designed to do that.
		And as a consequence, those are the very lines whose rhythms are followed by migratory species, according to almost all literature now.
		I mean, they used to believe it was sense of smell and geographic location.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, but rather magnetic lines, right?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And that's what's understood today to be truly the navigating system for most species.
		So when you enter man's introduction of new technologies that actually interfere with Those background radiations that these animals apparently are more sensitive to be able to pick out.
		And I think one time man was as well.
		I think we've sort of lost that as we've surrounded ourselves in a sea of electromagnetic noise in the sense of the amount of energy that's around us compared to what was normal in that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, if you take a project like HARP or any of the others that we've been discussing tonight, and you consider the budget that they have for development of this technology for whatever stated goal they have, how much of that budget do you imagine is usually apportioned to researching possible unintended consequences?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Not enough.
		I mean, in the case of HARP, for instance, in all these years that we've complained about it and other political bodies now have complained about it, you know, they've never put sort of the biological team on the project, people with the requisite background in the right fields of science that they have available to them, that publish for them on the project to sort of look at the effects.
		What they've defaulted to is whatever safety standards and rationale that they can lead to.
		And then occasionally they exceed the limits of their permits and their rationale and blame it on whatever, contractor error or whatever, which they've done in the past.
		The fact is, now they're getting special permissions under the emergency powers that go into effect with many of the pieces of legislation.
		Bear in mind now they're accelerating the funding of this project.
		The missile defense is going forward at about $80 billion is what's anticipated to be spent over the next few years.
		A lot of money is being pledged into these projects that before were being incrementally dropped in on us.
		Now they're coming in mass.
		And it's going to change the complexion of warfare and have a dramatic effect on democracies and the way in which they operate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Nick Begage in Alaska.
		Hello.
		Hello.
		Yes, sir.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		It's Boyden from Independence, Missouri.
unidentified		How are you doing, Nick?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing good.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Thanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You remember me, I hope.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Nick, if you could maybe expound upon the cumulative effect of the technology that you've been sharing with in the context of an effort to manipulate the minds and thoughts of humanity from a religious point of view using holographic technology,
		technology that could actually transmit voices into the minds of people, project imagery, etc., in the context of there being some great salvational experience in light of the kinds of catastrophic events that are not only happening now,
		but prophetically are going to happen down the road, and how we as a people can be deceived into believing that all of a sudden there's some great spiritual salvational program coming to our rescue.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		This is holographic projection is real possible now.
		I mean, we have that technology.
		The idea of projecting a voice, so it almost sounds like it emanates from a three-dimensional space, heterodyning sound and manipulating sound in very specific ways, like to create that illusion is possible.
		So yeah, that can be done.
		And again, in the right context, it might be used.
		The idea, again, kind of going back to sort of Brzezinski's take on the whole thing, you know, would they use it for our own good, which is really what we're talking about.
		And, you know, I think a lot of people in government really honestly believe that what they do is for our own good and would make those decisions without necessarily consulting us.
		And that's, I think, the greatest fear.
		You know, these issues go back to lots of things within our government.
		Think about this.
		A half a million Americans experimented on without anyone ever being held accountable.
		I think there was only one case of someone actually suing and winning, and it was the CIA's drugging of an individual who was said to have committed suicide, but was drugged.
		That's right.
		But out of a half a million, only one.
		You know, that's a pretty sad state of affairs under any kind of accountability system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even though that is what you're stating is a well-known fact, people are in denial about it because they just don't want to believe their own government would do this to them.
		They don't want to believe that.
		And I understand that.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I think that, you know, it's interesting.
		There was a government teacher here that I gave a copy of Revolution Military Affairs, which talked about a lot of this.
		And they took it to his class, and they all read it, and they commented on it.
		One of them went home, and their dad was a military guy, because there are a lot of military here, and said, no, it's absolutely not true.
		And was just angry.
		And it's a U.S. Army War College document.
		The other parent was, yeah, it's true.
		And unfortunately, it's the way it is.
		But you have those kind of reactions because people commit themselves to the things they believe the country stands for.
		And when we find out that it doesn't always roll that way, we do go into denial.
		And the fact is, we need to hold our government and those within it accountable for the things they do that infract on the very things that represent the values I think that all of this is supposed to be about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but that is all changing as we speak.
		West of the Rockies, without a lot of time, you're on the air with Dr. Nick Begich.
		Hello.
unidentified		King Arthur.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Mitch, the Magic Christian from Ventura, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, go right ahead.
unidentified		Dr. Begich?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		I believe you spoke on this, touched around the edges of it at least earlier, but let me ask the question directly.
unidentified		Do you believe that considering the potentialities of HAARP, that what we're going through now with the debate about the missile defense technology is really what it comes down to is budgetary and political masturbation?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think what we're going to get once the money is appropriated is different than what's being sold right now, only because there's good technology that's much superior to what's being told to the public.
		But what it's really about is a lot of money and a lot of technology.
		It is about national defense.
		At the same time, it's about some risk.
		I think the risks need to be debated.
		I think the national defense needs to be secured.
		And I think we can have both, but not in a vacuum and not in an environment of fear.
		And unfortunately, that's where we are at the moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I'm not so sure how we get this kind of thing into the public arena.
		I suppose programs like this would be about the only way to force it, literally force it in.
		All right, we're short on time.
		Earth Rising is available pretty much nationwide, certainly Amazon.com, where you can get a great buy on it.
		You've got another publication, sort of a follow-up to that coming out shortly.
		When will that be out?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		That's going to come out hopefully by April, maybe a little sooner than that, the way things are shaping up right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any way for people to get in touch with you if they have questions?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		My toll-free number is 888-690-1277.
		And my website is www.earthpulse.com, which is also linked to yours this evening.
		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course we have a link.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so there would be an email address there.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Yes, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or again, the toll-free number, is that for, that's mainly for ordering, isn't it?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		That's for books.
		And in general, contacts messages can be left at another number.
		I can give you that as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, go ahead.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		That's 907-249-9111.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		And that will get to me as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		People have to be careful when they're dialing that number we found out after previous books.
		It's area code 907.
		That's Alaska, 907, 249-9111.
		Right.
		Remember, 9111.
		And again, the 800 toll-free number is 888-690-1277, correct?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, as always, it has been a great pleasure having you here, and particularly, Doctor, on such short notice.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Hey, it's always a pleasure to be with you at any time.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		We're always glad to be here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we live in very interesting times, don't we?
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		It is amazing how much is coming to pass.
		You know, the future is going to be a lot different than we project, and it's going to happen a lot faster.
		But at the same time, some great possibilities exist.
		So I think we have a lot to look forward to as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Begich, thank you so much.
nick begich ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for having me again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
		That's Dr. Nick Begich in Alaska.
		And I know a lot of what you heard sounds like science fiction, but as I tried to point out to you, as I really tried to point out to you earlier in the show, much of what we have discussed on this program, now well over a decade old nationally, has come to pass.
		So you should be careful about what you ignore and dismiss as poppy cock, because it's not.

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