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Sept. 25, 2001 - Art Bell
02:35:25
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Open Lines - To War or Not
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From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be across the globe, all these time zones, we cover them all one way or the other.
I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM, and I would like to welcome back officially The mighty KTRS in St.
Louis, Missouri.
550 way down low on the dial.
5 kilowatts and they just go all over the place.
So if you're in range of KTRS, that's perhaps where you want to go.
550 on the dial in St.
Louis, Missouri.
All right, warriors.
This should be an interesting night.
I'm going to be in open lines all night, but I am going to do a couple of things that I did years ago.
One of them is, we're going to have a few little debates.
Mini-debates.
Because it has come to my attention, as you will notice in a moment, that there are a few of you out there who obviously think going to war is not such a spiffy idea.
So we're going to give you a voice tonight and see what that sentiment really is like.
I will read you a couple of emails that I've received.
And of course we had Osama bin Laden Jr.
on the phone last night toward the end of the program.
And so we'll see what comes this night.
The Pentagon has ordered 2,000 more reservists to duty today.
The homeland defense, I guess, as President Bush weighed putting yet more armed guards on airliners, strengthening cockpit doors against potential hijackers.
Defense Secretary Rumsfeld said Americans are in for a long, brutal struggle for justice in the aftermath of the September 11th terrorist attacks.
It will be, he said, difficult and dangerous.
Osama Bin Laden's terrorist group warned of retaliation if Washington attacks.
That's right.
If we attack, which we are probably, the President said, hours from doing, they will retaliate.
Attorney General John Ashcroft is warning today of possible terrorist attacks that could include, get this folks, trucks carrying hazardous chemicals.
In fact, it seems about 20 people have been charged with trying to obtain fraudulent licenses to drive tankers, officials said.
Oh, great.
Some of those arrested in connection with the hazardous tanker licenses may have connections to the hijackers.
Aye yi yi.
UN Secretary General Kofi Annan On Tuesday, he called for Afghanistan's neighbors to open their borders for humanitarian aid for millions of starving Afghan refugees locked in the country's harsh mountainous region.
He says, in accordance with international law, the borders must be opened to civilians seeking refuge.
So, while we just try to get the borders closed up, if memory serves me, They just have Pakistan close borders with Afghanistan.
Now they want them open for humanitarian reasons.
I heard tonight on CNN they are searching, randomly searching cars and trucks coming into Manhattan.
Now that would be a different kind of experience, wouldn't it?
Coming into Manhattan.
Whoa.
Army guy, perhaps, or a police fellow says, whoa, gonna have to search you.
You want to get out?
Interesting.
Federal inspectors who uncovered lapses in airport security over the last decade proposed fines in just one quarter of the cases.
A record critics said underscores weaknesses in oversight of the system that protects the nation's air travelers.
And you know they keep taking box cutters and what have you on board planes to prove how weak security is.
Are you flying?
Nation's airlines are in big trouble.
We're going to bail them out with your money, my money, our money.
And I guess we have to because they're in danger of going belly up.
That wouldn't be good, would it?
Here's an email.
Monday night, Art, you read something from an author which said, this was Tom Clancy, we don't flaunt our strength, we keep quiet.
Bull!
Blank, blank, blank.
Mr. Bell?
The reason that everyone in the world hates Americans, your government, really, is the bully-type stance that it projects.
I know there are mostly good people in America and the rest of the world, for that matter.
Americans are thought of as big mouths in Europe and elsewhere.
People don't like you guys.
Don't give out that patriotic bull.
It wasn't a brown-skinned foreigner who caused your family problems, was it?
Your country needs to back off!
Your country needs to help others for the right reasons.
You guys are doomed to repeat this crap over and over again.
And you put all of us other nationalities in danger.
How dare you?
And of course he doesn't sign that.
New evidence against Osama Bin Laden not to be presented.
President Bush on Monday backed off the administration's pledge to quickly release evidence against Osama Bin Laden.
Said doing so could, quote, make the war more difficult to win, end quote.
The entire case against Osama bin Laden rested on the claim that the identities of the hijackers were known.
The claim fell apart when even the U.S.
admitted the hijackers had used phony identifications with the stolen identities of mid-eastern Arabs on them.
Moreover, the hijackers had made a conspicuous display of themselves in various locales to make sure the stolen identities would be remembered.
Hmm.
By the way, off topic.
Art, with all the terrorism coverage, we can't forget what's going on in our solar system.
Sun activity at a new high for cycle 23.
True.
What's going on right now is absolutely astounding.
Don't look at the sun.
But if you have a way to do it without hurting your eyes, you know the old pin-in-the-box trick or whatever it is you use, the sun is virtually covered with sunspots.
It issued an X, I think it was an X6 flare, that's a big one, coming right at Earth, should begin to impact in the morning or during the day tomorrow, I would imagine, probably closing radio communications down.
There's more on the way.
Two M-class flares in the last several hours.
Pretty good ones, too.
So, we're in for a ride from the sun now.
You see, NASA had been telling us that we had passed the peak.
That the solar peak had been passed.
However, it looks like the numbers that are accumulating right now might argue with that fact.
So we'll just have to wait and see.
Oh, here's another beauty.
Hey, Art.
Have you learned nothing from all those spiritual and mystical folks who have frequented your show as guests?
The truth is, Art, no one has yet presented any evidence of who did the deed.
That's because they can't.
The Bush regime did it.
This is one of those we-did-it-to-ourselves guys.
Viewed from that angle, all that is transpiring makes sense.
The terrorist angle doesn't.
Oh, I know, your corporate sponsors must be making you go gung-ho America, bomb the dirty bastards.
Well, I'm sick of hearing it.
Wake up, Art.
Your country is under attack from within, by your very own government, and they mean business, as we have already seen.
So, obviously there are a large number of people who either believe that going to war is a mistake, That Osama Bin Laden is not our guy, that Al Qaeda is not the group, that there is not enough proof, or that even if there is, retaliation is a mistake.
And tonight I intend to give those people a voice, along with you.
We will have a series, I think, of mini-debates.
And so, as we close into the bottom of this hour, I will request that certain phone lines be left open for people who actually and truly hold that point of view.
And if I find them, we will do a series of mini-debates on that, that exact item.
So, if you'll keep your radio right where it is, And keep your telephone handy if you're of a mind to chime in on this subject.
We will sort of alternate between pure open lines, and I mean that, anything you want to talk about.
You need not necessarily limit yourself to 9-1-1.
If you have a mind to stray from that, you're welcome to.
But I will be looking for people who don't want war.
People who don't think that what we're about to do is a good idea at all for whatever reason.
Or, if you really think it, if you really think it, that we even did this to ourselves.
I wonder how many people really believe that.
That somewhere deep in the Bush administration, or even beyond, there are a lot of people who think there's a beyond, right?
Someone cooked this up and we, in essence, did this to ourselves.
Alright, I don't know if this is true, but somebody writes to me and says, hey Art, the President of Mexico, Vincente Fox, Has a non-Spanish last name.
Fox is a non-Spanish last name.
However, Fox, this person says, Bill says, is Spanish.
In Spanish is Zorro.
This means the President of Mexico is Zorro.
I hadn't even thought about that.
Is that true?
Does Fox really mean Zorro in Spanish?
And if that is true, then we have Zorro as the President of Mexico.
Something worth thinking about.
All right.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hey, Art.
Hey, there.
Turn the radio off, please.
Yeah, okay.
All right.
It's off.
Off!
Get that radio off!
Reach over there!
Hey, did you hear that, uh, Nostradamus Century One Quatrain 87?
Hmm.
I don't know.
What's it say?
It goes like this.
Earth-shaking fire from the center of the world will make the new city tremble.
Two great rocks will war for a long time, and then Arethusa will redden a new river.
Well, I've heard that.
Yeah, you've heard that one?
Okay.
Well, anyway, I don't want to see us go to war.
I think that we need to... What would you do instead?
Well, you see, Mars is in perigee right now.
It's closest to the Earth.
Isn't that a good time to go to war?
I mean, Mars is the warrior planet, right?
Well, I think there's more important things to look at.
Yeah, but I mean, wouldn't that make it a good time to go to war?
The biggest influence being Mars?
I think it's a good time to interview Jacques Vallée.
Jacques Vallée?
Yeah, the French astronomer.
Really?
He, uh, wrote a book called Forbidden Science, and he drew, er, he, his studies, uh, indicated a parallel between UFO sightings and the proximity of Mars.
Oh, I see.
But to me, Mars being close means a warrior kind of mode.
Well, that's because you're some kind of cold warrior or something.
Okay, then fine.
What would you do with two buildings knocked down in New York and the Pentagon smashed to bits and thousands and thousands of dead Americans?
What would you do?
I'd just say, remember Wounded Knee.
Why would you say that?
Because we slaughtered thousands and thousands of Indians, and then we covered up all the Bureau of Indian Affairs indiscretions.
That was in the news not too long ago, as a matter of fact.
So, in other words, basically your position is, then, that we deserved it for what we've done before.
Is that right?
No, my point is... No, no, that is your point, because I said, what would you do?
And you said that you'd talk about what we did to the Indians before and drop it.
Well, hey, uh, Nostradamus predicted this 400 years ago.
Forget Nostradamus.
Why?
Because he's irrelevant, as far as this is concerned.
Well, I believe what's in the stars above is so below.
Well, I asked you again what you would do about all these dead Americans in the buildings down, and you talked to me about American natives.
Right.
Well, what are we going to do about them?
Well, I don't know.
You're talking to me about what was, not what is.
I wouldn't suggest for one second that what we did to the American Indian was the right thing to do, because it wasn't.
Right.
But that doesn't bear on this present situation.
I'm asking you what you would do about this.
It does bear.
I think that we should worry about our past indiscretions rather than creating future ones.
Well, then you are saying that.
Alright.
So, in other words, your answer to why we should do nothing about this Is because of our history, and what we have done to others.
I'll just let that position sort of hang in the air.
Now you see, folks, now you see why I want to have this series of mini-debates.
There's a lot of sentiment, like the sentiment you just heard, beginning to build out there.
And it's doing a little more than bubbling over right now.
But that's exactly what I was talking about.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Yeah, hello.
Hello, I can barely hear you.
Hello.
That's better.
Okay.
Where are you?
I'm in Santa Monica.
Okay, and your first name?
Is Michael.
Michael, okay.
Speak.
Speak?
Yes.
Okay, so yeah, I guess I'm of the camp that doesn't want war either.
You too?
Yes.
See, I was sure right about that.
There's a lot of you out there right now.
Well, yeah, I guess we need a voice.
Alright, what solution or what action would you say would be appropriate to take based on what's happened here?
Well, how much is the present administration budgeted for this first phase of war?
What, $40 to $100 billion, something like that?
Yeah, about $40 billion, but I don't even know that really covers it.
Okay, yeah, let's just say $50 billion for the first phase.
Let's say that, alright.
Okay, well, why are we there?
I mean, what has that contingent on that side of the world, the Islamic contingent, pissed off?
I mean, we're there to protect the oil supply.
Pretty much.
Now we're back to oil.
I don't think that anything we would do in Afghanistan would do one thing for the price of oil or the delivery of oil or anything else.
That's true.
That's why it's even more senseless in one respect.
Wait a minute.
So you're saying that if we were going to war to keep oil coming, that'd be all right.
But since we're not, it's not?
Well, having read Mr. Bin Laden's He's pretty much pissed off at the Western world because we got our feet on their ground over there.
And that aside, the reason we're there... Wait a minute, we do?
Where?
Militarily.
Where?
In Saudi Arabia.
Oh yes, in Saudi Arabia.
But heck, Saudi Arabia's no friend.
They just broke off diplomatic relations with the Taliban.
That's true.
And, well, you know, let's put it in historical perspective.
I mean, in terms of, you know, we're looking at this event, and I agree, it is a horrible, tragic event.
And, in perspective, the Gulf War was over protecting the oil supply.
I mean, any which way you look at it, that's what it's about, in my estimation.
Well, yeah, I think to some degree that was absolutely true, of course.
And almost every president we've ever had has said, straight out, we would go to war to protect the oil.
Right.
Well, my point is, okay, we spent $50 billion on chasing a band of, you know, I'll give it a high estimate, a band of 5,000 individuals worldwide.
uh... that heard you know ramshackle in caves or hiding out in bridges right
happy right let's spend fifty billion bucks on
starting to get off oil we can do it we have the technology here i agree with
that i mean i absolutely agree with that but uh... if you don't
go after these people you know the odds pretty good they're going to either do
that or something even more awful soon again
Yes, yes, but understand this, you know, I've traveled the world and I've met all, you know, I've met people from probably 30 or 40 countries.
Right.
And what I would say is that human nature is the same.
You know, we talk about, we talk about the American spirit and how we rise up in times of trouble And meet the need.
Well, you know, people across the world do that too.
And I think that once we go in and we spend this tremendous amount of money chasing a shadow group, that you'll have a bunch of people on that side of the world that will just look at it and it will just, for every one of them we kill with this whatever we're gonna do.
They'll kill a hundred of us.
They'll kill a hundred of us, and it will convert a hundred of them to rise up in their spirit of Islam.
You know, so, historically... Alright, but here's a little crack in that argument.
Okay.
It's my understanding that what they have done is not exactly right in the spirit of Islam.
Oh, God no.
Yeah, God no.
So then why would the general Islamic population rise to a jihad or Or a whatever, because they don't favor this sort of thing in the first place.
Well, I wouldn't speak for the entire Islamic community, and I wouldn't expect the educated or intellectual Islamic community to rise up and do so.
But I'm thinking about those that don't have access to the media, that don't have access to all forms of information.
Alright, so you think we ought to... There are millions of them out there.
Okay, so you think we ought to do nothing, right?
No, I'm not saying nothing.
What would you do?
What would I do in this situation?
Yes.
Uh, well, first of all... Boy, we don't have a lot of time.
Okay, well, I'll make it short.
First of all, if evil attacks, you know, from... I've listened to your show for years.
Okay, basically... All right, I'm gonna have to hold you over.
Stay there for a moment, all right?
Stay right where you are.
Sure.
We'll be back.
This is Coast to Coast AM and I'm Art Bell.
I don't know how I'm going to do this.
My lines are so jammed up.
But we are going to get some people on here, like this gentleman and others, who don't think.
And you can see there's a lot of them out there already, even Not asked for.
I think the war is not really a spiffy idea.
That's a growing number of people, and it's reflected in my emails and communications that I'm getting.
So we're gonna put those people in a little bit of a debate with some of you.
The warriors out there.
The Mars people.
I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AF.
Alright, where were we with this, Collar?
I think I was asking him, well, okay then, what would you do?
What would you do, Collar?
Okay, so where I left it off was, basically, you know, if evil attacks, what does evil want?
Okay, you know, in a general sense.
Well, I've been asking that myself, but evil hasn't been saying.
It wants chaos, it wants mayhem, it wants death, it wants destruction, basically.
You know, go through any religion or philosophy, basically, they all come to the same point.
Okay, well, we've got all those now.
Okay, so what I'm saying here is that the response to whatever this force that did this wants is exactly what we're going to give it.
We're going to give it death, destruction, chaos, and mayhem.
So, you know, what I would do, one individual sitting out here amongst billions, is basically just try and beat it at its own game.
How do you do that?
I mean, death, destruction, chaos is what we're going to give it.
That is its game.
That's what we're going to do.
Well, it can't survive without finances, without money, without a network.
Well, we're going after that.
Well, that's good.
That's not necessarily war.
That's cunning.
You know, I think that's much more cunning than dropping five million dollar bombs On three Taliban individuals.
And so that's one aspect of it.
But, you know, I really don't want to just say what I really feel in terms of what should be done.
You know, I could go on and on and on, but basically to lay low, to wait, to watch, to be patient and play its same game as opposed to just You know, this huge country with all these resources just, you know, going out and having a huge testosterone rush and blowing the crap out of, uh, God knows what, little villages.
All right.
I think I've got the message.
Thank you.
Okay.
You're welcome.
Take care.
All right.
So there you have it.
There's a lot of that out there.
There really is a lot of that.
And it ranges from that to we did it to ourselves to all over.
The range is very wide indeed.
Amazing.
You know, it seems, if you watch television, you watch the major media, that everybody is in lockstep behind this.
Never have we been so united.
And, in fact, I think that is, as a generality, true.
But there is a growing noise out there, a little beneath the surface, that you're hearing tonight, that I knew was there because it was all over my email.
So, we'll see what we find.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello, Art?
Yes, sir.
I love your show.
Oh, thank you.
And, uh, marvelous.
I feel like one of the last, if not the last, free voice on the airwaves of America.
Where are you?
Well, I'm called from Tucson, Arizona.
Okay.
And, um, I... Your first name?
My name is Al.
Okay, Al.
And, uh, basically, two things bother me.
Um, the presence of so many foreign soldiers, a whole lot more than are really highlighted on our soil, training for whatever they don't have enough We've always had foreign military training with us.
I was in the Air Force, and we always had people from the Far East, people from the Middle East, people from South America.
What are all these underground bases?
And what happens if they decide, well, when our soldiers are over there, who knows?
Maybe they get anthraxed, and maybe the masks work, and maybe they won't.
Um, and they say, hey, we just happened to all be here training and we're all United Nations and, uh, uh, we've kind of got United Nations legally kind of through the Bretton Woods Agreement Act as the final say in everything anyway.
But here's another thing, um, about something that happened to me.
I was living with an Israeli Mossad officer for about seven years.
Um, I guess I was just an assignment.
Uh, she had a doctorate of psychology.
You were an assignment?
Uh, yeah.
For her?
In her official capacity?
Apparently, apparently that's what it boiled down to.
I can't say with absolute certainty, but it seemed as though... Why would you imagine she would be assigned to you?
Uh, a lot of people have been.
Um, apparently some kind of a... I don't know exactly everything behind it.
I just know that some people in some of these organizations like, uh... Yeah, but there must be a reason.
Well, I'm sure there is, but the reason is even too much for me to quite fathom.
It's way out there and yet apparently true, but I...
I'm remiss to even say anything about that.
What I wanted to highlight is just this, and let on some of the more interesting callers call in, but is that George Bush apparently gave, well, quite in fact, George Bush did issue an order to his senior to, again, and that kind of mystifies me even, to arrange, she said, for a mid-air jumbo jet collision between my jet and another jet when I was going to visit my mother at Christmas time.
Your jet?
Well, the Jedi was scheduled to be on.
George Bush, let me get this straight, George Bush Sr.
wanted a... We had split up and I hadn't talked to her for a few months.
I got a panicked call from her working.
I wouldn't like her to be panicked.
I mean, only a couple times could she be shook up at all.
I mean, here's a lady that knew how to use a newsie real good and everything.
This lady was like, had a mind as solid as steel.
And she called and said, Al, you've got to cancel your reservations immediately.
And I'm going, I didn't say anything, but a red flag.
So this is a reservation on a commercial airliner?
Oh, yeah.
And she said... Not your personal jet?
No, no, no, I'm home.
No, I wish I had that problem.
But in any case, this red flag, I hadn't spoken to her since I made the... I mean, why would George Bush Sr.
want to crash your jet?
This I don't know, but in any case, it was in this context that I learned.
She was, of course, a very high level IBM A professional.
Well, yeah, she taught speed reading for IBM, and she dated the, you might say, the father of the computer chip, Ron Dean.
Well, I shouldn't... Yeah, you better not give out names.
Yeah, I shouldn't name that name.
Okay, let's just say the project lead for the first, for IBM, for the first computer chip.
He was there for the, in Cincinnati, when they designed the computer system for the American telephone system.
This is all relatively Amazing.
Not relevant.
Okay, the bottom line is this.
Those jets are flown from the ground, as are our spacecraft.
Unmanned ones, the more successful ones.
Well, they all begin on the ground.
Right.
They all, they take them off and they land them.
Yes.
Of course, I wouldn't want to get on a plane that didn't have a pilot and a co-pilot, but apparently none of the panic buttons on any of those four jets was pushed, indicating that they were being hijacked.
That's a little peculiar.
But if that's not enough, all the black boxes were disconnected, apparently.
Not if you pull a pilot and co-pilot out of their seats and you fly the plane yourself.
Then that doesn't happen.
But I'm thinking, I'm just thinking... I just want to know why George Bush would want you dead.
Well, I would like to know the same thing.
Well, maybe your friend in the Mossad can answer it.
I certainly can't.
I have no idea.
You would think George Bush Sr.
would have better things to do.
But no, he's after you.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air alone.
Oh, hello.
Hello.
Yes, I'm calling regarding the topic of whether we should go to war or whether we shouldn't.
Yes.
And I feel like it is an absolute duty to respond to what was done to all the innocent people.
Finally!
It took 47 minutes after the hour before I got you.
And I think back on the Gettysburg Address.
And I think about the blood that was spilled.
And I hate to get emotional, but it's really a duty, uh, and an honor to, um, really, um, I'm trying to find the word for it, to... Avenge the deaths of the people who died?
Yeah.
Yeah.
How about that?
Or avenge, uh, a death, uh, avenge an attack on our country?
When in the world, in the world's history, Do you get a more clear act of war than when somebody comes onto your own land, hijacks your airliners, and plows them into two 110-story buildings and the Pentagon, the source of military power, the symbol of military power?
When would you ever get a more clear act of war than that?
I can't even imagine it.
If you were going to sit down with even fairly limited resources and try to think up anything you could do that would be more clearly an act of war than what was done, I cannot imagine what it would be.
I cannot imagine.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
No, you're not.
There's that button.
West of the Rockies, now you're on the air.
Hello.
Hi, this is Dan from Portland, Oregon.
Hi, Dan.
Um, I just wanted to echo that last caller.
It was nice to finally hear somebody that's actually a real American and would will and is willing, sound like from what they said, to fight and die for this country, which I certainly am.
And I agree with you.
I mean, I just don't see it in our history when we've been so viciously attacked.
And to me, it's just so crystal clear what we need to do.
And I'm really perplexed.
I am a little too.
By some of the previous callers, there's people protesting this, and we haven't done anything yet.
I know.
Just wait till it starts up.
Well, they know it's coming.
Certainly, but it just sounds like a lot of cowardly hand-wringing.
The planes, the ships, the men, they're all traveling.
It's coming, there's no question about it, but I am astounded.
Absolutely astounded at how many people are, as you pointed out, sort of wringing their hands, going, oh no, you know.
Well, you know, and the thing is, if that attitude prevails, this country will go down the tubes.
Sure.
And, you know, one of the previous callers said something about, well, you know, what I find interesting is when you ask some of these callers, well, what would you do?
You kind of get this deadly silence.
Yeah.
It's like, well, let's see, let's lay low for a while.
Well, I think we've been laying low for far too long.
Yeah, if you want to know the truth, I'm still afraid we might lay low or that we might not do what we ought to do.
Now, it looks like, and certainly all the talk from the President has been wonderful, and it looks like we're going to do it, but I'm hoping we don't back away.
Yeah, I'm totally in agreement with you.
One thing that kind of comes to mind, I don't know if you ever saw the movie Fight Club.
Yes, I did.
There's a part in the movie when the main character goes and tells his His, um, I don't know, acolytes to go out and try to pick a fight with somebody on the street.
Right.
And, um, you know, they're spraying water in these people's faces, hitting them on the butt with brooms and this type of thing.
And they literally could not get people to fight back.
And I'm just wondering if that's sort of the, you know, the attitude of a lot of these people, these sort of pampered liberals that just aren't willing to fight and die for this country.
Do you think they're mainly liberals from a political philosophy point of view?
No, I hate to put a label on it, but it's just, I think you just have a lot of people out there that are just, they've had it too good for too long, and they don't know, they don't know what lengths they need to go to, uh, to maintain our freedoms.
And, you know, if you look in, you know, past history, what people have done so that we still have a country here, fought and died for us, um, uh, you know, we need to take that into consideration and rise.
Well, there is the extreme far right as well, sir, and the extreme far right Uh, is tending to say things like, we did it to ourselves, George Bush had this planned, uh, the internationalists had this planned.
Believe me, there's plenty of that on the far right too.
Well, I certainly haven't heard as much reporting on that as I have on... Well, you probably haven't heard either one, very much of either one.
This radio program, because of its nature, tends to be the first out of the chute with almost anything.
I began to see all this stuff piling up in my email, and I can tell you from the left and the right, there's a lot of it.
Well, yeah, I'm sure that's true.
Anyway, I just wanted to sort of chime in and let you know that there are people out there that are still willing to fight for this country.
I appreciate it.
Thank you very much.
It is amazing, isn't it?
Isn't it?
I can detect a trend very quickly because of course I'm getting, you know, a couple thousand emails a day and a disconcerting percentage of them contain this sort of thing.
I didn't by far bring to you all there were.
I just gave you sort of a little sampling of it.
Interesting, isn't it?
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Okay, I think that What Osama Bin Laden is pointing out to us in a very, very tragic way, and I still haven't gotten over the death of these people, and I'm sure it's hit all of us like that, is that we go into every country where we should not be, and we foment trouble, rebellion, within that country.
We, uh, if we don't like the people, we send them cluster bombs.
We send over, uh, cruise missiles.
And then we wonder why, when they see kids, uh, uh, ears blown they hate us because it can happen here
we uh... i mean we can do that to other countries because of all you know
but they they're not touch us we're we're americans where the stupid dumb
down american you agree that this uh... particular uh...
attack and our response when it comes will not be
based on oil one way or the other and eventually it will be because when uh... but george
bush went into the uh...
Gulf War, he said he characterized it as the New World Order.
He did, yes.
Yes, he did.
Yes.
And he accomplished nothing.
He didn't get Saddam Hussein.
And the only thing that happened at the end of that war, and he lost, by the way, I think because of that, he gave, the Queen of England gave Schwarzkopf a button because he saved her Petro, British Petro.
Let me stop you in the interest of brevity here and just ask you what you would do.
In other words, if you were president and thousands of Americans had just been killed, as is the case, and the buildings destroyed, the Pentagon, a couple hundred there at the Pentagon dead, what would you do?
Well, obviously we have to do something because of the fact that there's so many stupid Americans who don't know what we did there, that they're going to be waiting for President Bush to do something.
So we'll have to go in and clean out the Taliban.
But when we go over and kill more Iraqis, and when we go into, if we have to kill any Pakistani on the border, or the Afghans on the border who are innocent people, then it's going to show America for what it is, and I think a lot of countries are going to turn, it's going to turn 180 degrees against us, because they know that... Well, you're telling me what George Bush is going to have to do.
What I'm asking you is, if you were in that position, what would you do?
Well, if I were in that position, I wouldn't be in... I would tell the Taliban that we would stop hiring only Americans in Kuwait.
I would say we're going to change our American policy so that this never happens again.
And then I would let them know that it's not about business, Wall Street, and the recovery of oil fields in Azerbaijan, which is our next move.
Would you stop aid to Israel?
I stop aid to every country.
I don't think any country, Argentina should never get 8 billion dollars from us.
For what?
So you would withdraw U.S.
forces from their positions around the globe?
from every country except at our borders of Mexico and if it takes 2,500 men or 10,000
men to cover that border between us and Mexico, I would say that there was no Coast Guard
to help them, no, our troops would be at that border and it would be only Americans because
they took an oath to protect the Constitution of the United States, not of the world.
Don't you think that's almost exactly what Osama Bin Laden wants?
Osama bin Laden wants what I want.
I want a job for Americans, not Mexicans.
I don't want our government to have free trade and no tariffs coming across these borders by multinational corporations who don't write into the salary that they give these poor people in foreign countries.
They give them slave labor and they don't write into product liability.
Before, American corporations used to hire a lot of people when we were a loved country.
And they would write into the salary that they gave the worker product liability, his health insurance, and everything.
It made him proud.
He was a loyal worker for his company and he was proud to turn out a wonderful product.
Today, they have now, with health and every facet of our culture, we've changed everything now so that The cheapest bidder wins.
All right, but boiled down, your response is you would not go to war.
You would instead withdraw American presence in most every part of the world.
Every part of the world, because it's only about businessmen, Wall Street, and they don't care about us.
We're expendable.
They have a lot of things.
Even you talk about, I listen to you quite often, and you talk about the comm trails and all this.
I don't trust our government.
I think that people who write secret legislation, such as they just did, so that a person who blows the whistle on anything in the government gets three years penitentiary.
Listen, hon, I've got to run.
Nobody, nobody should trust our government.
That's a basic tenet.
Never, never, never trust your government.
Always be vigilant.
However, there is a caveat here, and that is that as you go around the world and examine many governments and live in many countries, you're never going to find one as good as this one.
Albeit not a perfect one, but you're never going to find one as good.
Never.
I hear the drums echoing tonight.
And she hears only whispers of some quiet conversation.
She's coming in 1235.
She hears only whispers of some quiet conversation.
She's coming in 1235, the moonlit wings reflect the stars that guide me toward salvation.
I stopped to know the man along the way.
Rob in San Francisco says Art, your closed-minded slash hearted hawk stance is going to lose much of your
progressive audience.
Violence solves nothing, especially in this nuclear age.
I didn't know you thought I was a wussy.
There certainly seem to be a few out there.
Aren't you surprised?
I certainly am.
I just mentioned the amount of email I was getting, and lo and behold, the rush begins.
I haven't even had an opportunity to set up a debate yet, because it's just been non-stop.
We'll be right back.
All right, here we go again.
On wussy line number one, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hello.
Hi.
Hi.
This is Chris in Waukesha, Wisconsin.
Yes, Chris.
I'm just calling up about my, uh, anti-war stance.
You're anti-war, huh?
Yeah, I'm... I just think with our, uh, track record, even if that was we were just gonna hunt down Osama and his al-Qaeda network.
Yes.
We got a poor track record next, you know, like Panama and Vietnam, different Police actions or invasions, we don't have a good track record of that whole collateral damage.
Actually, this is, in a way, you know, this is like a police action.
Uh, more than a war in some ways.
It's more like a police action.
I mean, we're going after a criminal in a way.
Uh-huh.
So this is kind of like a police action.
You think that's a bad idea.
What would you do?
Um... It's very difficult because Afghanistan's not like a normal country.
I hear a lot of people talking about the Taliban.
Mm-hmm.
Giving Osama up, and I suppose I could, but the regular Afghani people revolting isn't really an option.
They're not armed.
They're poor.
They're illiterate.
They can't survive, you know.
They're not on their own means.
Oh, they are poor.
That's true.
But you wouldn't even go after Osama.
I mean, you'd leave him there.
Oh, I'd go after him.
How?
I think it will eventually have to come to an invasion.
But I'm... Not ready to do it right now?
I think we should take our time and involve as many other countries as possible.
We're doing that.
Right?
To some extent.
I hear people crying for blood and they want carpet bombing and all this other... So you don't understand this cry for blood?
Uh, I do.
It's a horrible thing, but I think it should not be revenge.
It should be, the motivation should be justice.
Hunting down Osama and his network and taking them out.
Okay.
All right.
Well, thank you.
I've always been into revenge myself.
I think that if somebody, you know, you know, as long as I I'm, I'm a live and let live kind of guy.
And I don't much take up the causes that a lot of people take up to hate this person and hate that person.
I just don't do that.
I leave people alone and I expect them to leave me alone.
On the other hand, if they don't, then I go and get them.
And for all it's worth.
And I've always been that way and I will always be that way.
So I'm kind of into vengeance.
And I think the people who died in those towers, in the Pentagon, in those planes, They deserve to be avenged.
Maybe that's kind of an old-fashioned, uh... Old-fashioned?
Is that old-fashioned?
Is it, really?
Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello, Art.
Yes, hi.
Where are you?
I'm in, uh, Michigan.
Michigan.
And your first name is?
What's that?
Your first name?
Kurt.
Kurt, okay.
Well, hi, um, I'd just like to start by saying that I don't think, um... It was an act of terrorism.
But it resembled an act of war.
And now I think we're gonna commit an act of war that's gonna resemble an act of terrorism.
Oh.
You think what we're about to do is going to look like terrorism?
Uh, somewhat, yeah.
You can't, this can't really be classified as a war.
I don't think it can be.
Police action?
Um, it should be more of a police action.
It shouldn't be a war.
We shouldn't have declared war the day after this happened.
I don't think.
I don't think we officially declared war.
Well, they spoke of war.
This is war.
Yeah, everybody's using that word.
And that's because it is, it does seem like a clear act of war.
I mean, twice the number of people were killed in New York as were killed at Pearl Harbor.
I know.
And what I'm trying to say is that that was, believe it or not, what happened in New York Was a result of America's failed foreign policy, believe it or not.
I really believe that.
And what foreign policy is it that, uh... Well, first of all, we do support terrorism ourselves.
We always have.
We supported terrorism, the KLA, the Kosovo Liberation Army.
We're not going after the IRA, the Irish Republican Army.
Israel has one of the most complicated terrorist networks in the world.
I'll tell you an interesting thing, and maybe you agree with this, uh, with your stance.
Uh, you know Reuters, the news service?
Yep.
Reuters has said that they will no longer refer to Osama Bin Laden as terrorists.
They will not use that word in their news service any longer.
They said one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
Exactly, that is what I'm trying to say.
That is an incredible stance for a major news service.
You don't think so?
I think that what we're about to do does not resemble... No, no, I don't think so, sir.
I think we're trying to go and kill Osama Bin Laden Tear down his terrorist network and ensure this won't happen again.
And I don't see how that compares with going out to actively slaughter as many civilians as you can.
I understand that, sir.
You do?
Oh, sure.
Isn't that a rather important distinction?
Sure, I do.
But you know that Ronald Reagan himself called Osama bin Laden a freedom fighter during the Afghan war.
That's true.
Did you know that?
That's true.
That is true.
He said he's a freedom fighter that we should all strive to emulate.
And it's kind of funny how we supported Osama Against the communists and now we're supporting the
northern alliance, which is nothing but leftover communist against Osama total reverse
Isn't that strange? Well, we always support groups that tend to
Serve our purpose. I mean exactly that we do that we do that like one of the other colors called us all pampered
liberals I'm not I'm not anti-war. I have nothing against war. I
just wanted to be a just war we were attacked sure I understand that
And it was evil.
And that's exactly what they said.
Today our nation saw evil.
The only thing is, we don't get to see the evil that we commit all over the world.
We don't see that.
I believe we do.
Okay, what evil have we committed in the world that would justify Osama Bin Laden's destruction of... Well, I mean, we started with our war against Iraq.
They tried to say it was a just war.
Which was an oil war, which I'm sure most people think.
Well, they invaded Kuwait.
And they also invaded Iran in 1979 with our support.
Nobody stopped them then.
That's true.
Nobody cared.
There's always countries being invaded every day, all over the world.
There's wars, there's people invaded.
We don't stick up for them.
Well, when your enemies fight among themselves, you go, oh well.
You know, we didn't even overthrow Saddam Hussein.
We could have easily took him out.
We didn't want to.
It was our stated foreign policy that we shouldn't because we didn't want to destabilize the Middle East.
We just wanted our interests served, and all this talking, you know.
We've, there's been massacres by America in Lebanon, Burma, Takistan.
We've been in Somalia, Eritrea, Chechnya.
We've been all over the world.
And you know how there's over 600...
This is from the United Nations themselves.
Over 600,000 children and women.
No, not warriors.
Just civilians that have died in Iraq since the war.
I'm sure other people have heard that statistic.
I'm sure that's probably correct.
And then they always try to say, well, that's, you know, Saddam Hussein's fault.
And believe me, I don't think Saddam Hussein is a good guy.
And I would have no problem if we would have went and wiped them out.
I do think that's Saddam Hussein's fault.
Uh, we have, uh, bought oil.
The United Nations has bought oil in order to see to it that, uh, they are fed and he's not feeding them.
No, no, that was only happened in 99.
After all these world opinions started turning on us because of the deaths, they said, okay, we're going to ease up on some of the medicine and food.
That's right.
That's right.
And that was the only reason.
I know, but what happened to it?
It never got to the people it was supposed to get to.
Well, we don't know that.
There's still some probably getting through.
I don't think he's doing his best job, believe me.
Alright.
But, I mean, I understand.
And all I'm trying to say is, America and foreign policy, we have to, as citizens, we are going to be responsible for this because we elect them.
We have to get, we have to understand what's going on.
When we bombed, remember in 98, we bombed Afghanistan.
We bombed the Sudan.
Right?
Yes.
We hit pharmaceutical factories and hospitals.
We know that.
Nobody cares.
It happens.
People just kind of turn on the news and see it for a few minutes and they flip to Seinfeld or something.
They don't care.
Those people are getting revenge against us.
All right, so what was done then, in some ways, from some points of view, was justified, you're saying, by what we have done?
No, I'm not saying any death is justified, but I'm saying what they did, it wasn't an act of terrorism.
But that is what you're saying, though.
It wasn't an act of terrorism to them, what they were doing.
It was justice and revenge, just like we said.
No, it's justice and revenge.
It's going to keep going on and on.
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
What they did was in a response to what they've seen as us.
We have military troops all over the Middle East.
No, I hear your argument.
I hear your argument.
I hear your argument very clearly.
We also support Saudi Arabia, which is a dictatorship.
We support the Shah of Iran, which is a dictatorship.
Alright, say goodbye.
Okay.
Alright, bye.
Bye bye.
Ease to the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello?
Hello!
Hello.
Hi.
Wow.
Um, I really wasn't going to get involved in the debate between whether we should or should not go to war, but after hearing that guy, I can't help it.
Here you are.
Yeah.
Um, I also had another comment, if that's okay.
Sure.
Where are you by the way?
I am in Tennessee.
And your first name is?
Ashley.
Ashley.
Okay.
Um, I just want to say that I'm not necessarily anti-war and I'm also not necessarily pro-war.
Um, I think it's a necessity at this point.
Right.
Because frankly, we've taken enough crap.
I don't think pro-war is the right phrase anyway.
Uh, I think it's just that... No, I don't either.
It's just something that has to be done.
Mm-hmm.
Because I'm frankly tired of sitting here and turning on the news and hearing everybody calling us the Great White Satan or whatever it is they call us now.
You mean like my callers for an hour and a half now?
Yeah, that too.
I really think they need to get their heads on straight and open their eyes.
I think a lot of them should travel.
Yeah, I mean, but I do think it's necessary at this point and frankly it's going to happen and there's not a lot they can do about it.
I really think we're to the point where we're going to have a war.
Yeah, I'm convinced of it also.
We're going to have something.
I don't know exactly what it's going to be.
After all, what kind of war, as we understand war, can it really be?
It can't, because... You don't have a specific place?
We're not fighting Afghanistan as a nation.
We may go after the government to some degree.
To some degree.
But even at that, George Bush said the other day that we're not really going after the Taliban.
We want Osama Bin Laden.
It's just the one person.
And I really think that more of your callers need to figure out in their own minds the difference between justice and revenge.
I'm all for justice.
I'm even for revenge.
I have no problem.
I think the lives of all those people in New York need to be avenged.
I do think to a point, but I'm only 19, so I really can't say I've lived long enough to get completely bloodthirsty, but I will go ahead and tell you that a couple weeks ago I was all for just going and, well, I don't think avenging wrongful deaths necessarily equates to bloodthirsty.
I suppose some people might think so, but... I don't know.
The main thing I called in, though, I wanted to say that because I really think they need to figure out what it is they're arguing against.
And that's just been really bothering me the whole time I've been here, sitting here and listening.
Right.
But I really wanted to see if anybody had tried to put a biblical perspective on this.
And that would be?
Well, um, I've been looking through Revelations, and my dad pointed out Chapter 18, which I don't have right here with me, and I should have.
That's alright, paraphrase it.
Well, it pretty much talks about the Great Babylon Falling.
And it's kind of spooky to me.
I wish people would quit quoting Nostradamus and the other Greek people because they're doctored versions now anyway.
They're getting them off the internet.
I know.
They need to go back to the source.
And nowhere does Nostradamus say in the ninth month on the eleventh day the steel birds are going to crash.
It doesn't say that.
I know.
But, um, it talks in the Bible about the Great Babylon falling and everybody standing offshore and weeping.
The merchants, which I think probably resembles the stock exchange and our dollar losing its value.
But, um, I was just wanting people to think about all these wartime, so-called wartime necessities.
The new policies that could be included, like giving up certain freedoms.
Right.
I believe.
I'm not sure if it was you or the news earlier that said that vans and trucks were actually being searched on their way into Manhattan.
I said that.
I repeated something CNN had on earlier.
Yes, they are randomly searching vans and cars and trucks.
Okay, I'm wondering just how long it's going to be going from that to let me see your papers.
And I have heard here, I'm a college student, I've heard on campus there are actually people who What an amazing night.
In so many ways, what an amazing night to listen to all of this.
And I'm just taking random calls here.
with that six point star. Sure, why not? Scarlet letters.
All right. Thank you. Thank you. Take care.
What an amazing night. In so many ways, what an amazing night to listen to all of this.
And I'm just taking random calls here. I'm just picking up calls as they come in.
I really intended at the beginning of the night, I'm going to do it. If I get an anti-war call,
if I get the right anti-war call here, I am going to start a debate.
If I can find the right person on the other side and let the two of you go at it.
I'm just astounded at what I'm hearing.
Absolutely astounded.
I just, I knew it was there because I had read my email during the day and sort of was shaking my head, you know, there were so many what you would call, I guess, anti-war I've got to come out in favor of this action.
I don't see where we have any choice, like Ashley.
I think we don't need to call it revenge or... I'm not really comfortable with the terms.
listen to you on ko b770. Yes, Brian. I've got to come out in favor of this action. I don't see
where we have any choice like Ashley. I think we don't need to call it revenge or I'm not really
comfortable with the terms revenge or justice as applies to this.
I think we just have to remove a bad apple.
And we cannot look the other way, and if there's any lesson from history to be taken, I mean, Hitler has been the main bad guy we've encountered so far in the course of history.
and and what we let him west of the rockies called toll-free one eight hundred six
one eight eight two five five
Sorry about that.
Yeah, I had to take that out.
Rarely do I have to use that tape anymore.
It got us into deep doo-doo.
How about that?
Doo-doo, yeah, thanks for covering me.
Yeah, we don't have a choice in this instance, and I don't see it going anywhere positive.
I think it's going to escalate, and I don't see how we can get away from eventual bacterial warfare, what have you.
It's a downward spiral from here, but we didn't pick this fight.
But we really have no choice.
We do have to respond to it.
We cannot just look the other way.
As individuals, we can turn the cheek.
Well, what do you make out of all of this sudden, uh, wussyism?
Well, it's, you know, Americans don't really like war.
We don't want to have to kill people.
We don't want to... Nobody likes war.
Anybody who likes war is nuts.
We don't want it, and we don't want to send our kids over to die.
It may get to the point where we all gotta go.
It may get that large.
It could.
And everybody has to bear that in mind.
I've been preaching that for some time.
You don't know what you're getting into when you roll the war dice.
You don't know.
Yeah, but we don't have a choice.
We cannot let this stand.
We have to go and get these guys, if for no other reason.
Grenada and the Falklands, those were sending the message that we're The world has gotten to be the kind of place where we cannot tolerate aggression, but this was a direct slap in the face that we have to respond.
You're just the kind of person I'm looking for.
I'm going to put you on hold if you can afford to stick around for a few minutes and hook you up with an anti-war type and see what happens.
OK.
All right, good.
I'm putting you on hold.
Stay right there.
So I will survey my phones now during the break and I will find an anti-war type.
And that's not going to be very hard, judging from what I've heard so far.
And we'll do a little bit of a debate here.
So, if that's you, pick up your phone now.
This time I'll actively go out and find one of you anti-war folks.
It's quite a night.
Unexpected.
I wasn't ready for all this tonight.
I'm Art Bell, and this, of course, is Coast to Coast AM, raging through the nighttime.
I hear the drums echoing tonight, and she hears only whispers of some quiet conversation.
She's coming in twelve-thirty flight, the moonlit wings reflect the stars that guide me toward salvation.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
It is indeed.
Good morning everybody.
A wild night to be sure.
Did you know all of this sentiment was out there?
I certainly didn't.
Just mention it and the floodgates open.
So in a moment, we'll have ourselves a little debate.
Stay right where you are.
Alright?
As promised, let's give it a try here and see what happens.
Uh, let's see.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air now.
Hello?
Hi.
Hi.
And you're still there, right?
And your first name again?
My name is Brian.
Brian.
Okay, Brian, you're where?
I'm in Santa Fe, New Mexico.
Santa Fe, New Mexico.
That's right, Brian.
All right.
Anti-war capital of the world.
Anti-war capital of the world.
Uh, all right.
Uh, and I am now going to go to another line and say, hi, what is your name?
Hello?
On my other line, you're on the air.
Are you there?
Yes, sir.
I'm right here.
I'm Tony from Addison, Texas.
Tony from Addison, Texas.
And you're anti-war, aren't you?
100% against the war.
Any war.
All right.
The two of you, I'm just going to leave you alone and listen.
So let's see what you can do.
Either one of you, whoever wants to start, go ahead and start.
Make it interactive.
Well, hello, Santa Fe.
Hi, Tony.
Hello.
And you are for the war?
I am not for any war.
I understand entirely anti-war sentiments.
I myself felt very grateful that when I graduated from high school in 1975 I was just on the cusp of the Vietnam draft and Nixon put a halt to it before I had to go and I've been forever grateful.
However, events have taken such a turn, I'm also older and wiser now, that if I were called I would have to go.
So, you want this violence?
I don't see where we have a choice.
I kind of throw my hands up and say, you know, it's bigger than all of us.
We didn't ask for this to happen.
Do you see their point of view?
I mean, do you understand?
There's no justification whatsoever for taking out innocent people.
What was their justification for the Crusades, which is kind of where this all started?
Boy, you're going back too far for me.
Let's stay in the 20th century at least.
Okay, well, in the 20th century, look at the creation of the state of Israel.
I've been looking at that strongly lately.
And that's kind of where I see we made a real big mistake.
Well, was that our mistake?
It was England that set them up, right?
Well, our mistake and our support of Israel.
And that bruise, the anti-U.S.
sentiment, I think that's the fundamental You know, one of the basic causes for the anti-U.S.
sentiment around the world is that we promote terrorism by supplying Israel with weapons.
And allowing them to subjugate the Palestinians.
Well, we are helping them to survive in a hotbed of terrorism.
Why should we be helping them to survive?
I mean, we're promoting the land as the others do.
I mean, I wish that the world were such that they could get along peacefully over there, and that none of this were possible.
But should we be promoting our point of view across the world?
Is that our responsibility, as Americans, to promote our point of view?
Americans never really wanted to promote their point of view, other than to say that freedom is a basic human right that everyone is entitled to across the board.
And come to our country and enjoy our freedom.
I'm sorry, come again?
And you're welcome to come to our country and enjoy our freedom.
Well, no, we kind of bit off more than we can chew when we opened the floodgates to the melting pot and the chickens are coming home to roost there.
If we're going to uphold the standards of freedom, that's the price we have to pay.
And I think it's a worthwhile fight.
Okay, so you think it's okay for us to support Israel?
Sure, I do.
I mean, I think the Palestinians are getting a raw deal too, and I'm kind of ignorant as to what they're... And with our weapons, and can you understand how the Islamic world sees that as us being Rome?
I mean, in essence, we're Rome.
We're playing the role of conquerors.
We were called upon, let's go to World War I, we were called upon to be the world's policemen.
How is that our responsibility?
Where in our constitution does it say?
Because we have the resources, because freedom set us up with the ability to do it.
We created an oasis for freedom here.
We did what we did, and we're doing the best we can hope for in this whole lobby.
We cannot be isolationist about it, Tony.
We can't just close up the borders as that other caller would have liked.
No, I invite everybody to come in here and enjoy our freedom.
Right, but we can't fit the whole world in the U.S.
of A either.
Pardon me, sir?
We can't fit the whole world in the U.S.
of A. And immigration is bound to get more restrictive now that what's happened has happened.
Okay, well, okay.
So, what is the war going to gain?
What is it going to gain?
Let me just... I don't see anything good coming of it, but I see a whole lot.
We're in a catch-22, because we're damned if we do and damned if we don't.
Well, and we're damned in a really big way, because that part of the world, like I said, they've got 800 to 1,000 years of anti-Western sentiment brewing there.
We go in there, and we stir up... I mean, you cannot fight a perfect war.
And if we go in there, and it's not going to be long before we make a wrong move, Then the whole world can jump in there on that.
Right, and I expect that it may come to that, but the alternative is to turn the other cheek and embolden these.
And you know what?
Our president quotes the Bible, yet he will not follow the Christian tenet of turning the other cheek.
How hypocritical is that?
I missed the quote.
Well, in his speech to the country, he quoted a psalm, though I walked through the valley of death.
Right, that was a pretty innocuous one, I think.
Well, but yet he... and he puts himself... you know, he even used the word crusade in his speech.
I'm just really, really afraid of the, you know, the potential.
Now, we've got to look for solutions.
We are afraid of the potential, yes, but you're speaking as a reasonable person sitting in the lap of freedom.
Freedom to express those opinions.
I was born in 72.
I probably lived longer with this freedom than most.
These guys are not operating off the same wavelength as you and I. Absolutely not.
They will not reason with us.
They're not.
Come again.
We're talking over each other.
Let me hear what you had to say.
We can't reason with these guys.
They are fanatical.
The only thing we can do is something we should do.
You know, America is a microcosm.
It's something that we've been debating here, too, getting tough on crime.
You've agreed with me that if we go there, that there's the potential that this could cascade into World War III.
There sure is, and I think that we're inviting a whole... Okay, okay, but now, now, given that... We're inviting the same consequences if we don't take any action.
How can we find a way not to make this World War III?
I mean, I'm struggling for the peaceful solution.
Right.
I want to find... You are.
They are not.
Pardon me?
You are.
They are not.
They don't want the destruction of the world.
I honestly believe that if we backed out of Israel, and we tried to... They want to get to the next life as fast as they can possibly make it.
Pardon me?
They want to get to the next life as fast as they can possibly make it.
They are not interested in saving the world.
They are not interested in avoiding world war three.
You know, Islam was once a real beautiful culture on this world, and a lot of our modern Those conveniences stem from the sharing of research.
If you look at the history books that Islam provided, they, they, I mean... And when I say they, I mean the fanatics.
I don't mean Islam.
Well, okay, they.
There's fanatics on the Christian side, too.
There's fanatics everywhere.
You know, I mean, what, what, what, alright.
I don't want World War III.
Neither do I. Okay.
What I'm saying is if we go fight this war, I think it's real hard for that not to be A realistic potential.
I agree with you.
But that makes it a no brainer not to go to war.
No, because you're ignoring the others.
The other side is every terrorist with a fanatical vision is going to look at us as a cakewalk if we don't take action.
I think Bush is handling this exactly correctly.
You know, and I do see that point of view, that you do not want to let terrorism impact our foreign policy.
They were wrong.
Not just foreign policy, it's got to be a domestic issue, too.
I mean, this thing can blow up all over the United States if we're not careful.
And if we do go to war, I think the potential for more terrorist action in the United States times 100.
Well, that's why... I mean, the negatives of action at this are just...
They're so overwhelmed.
I mean, we gotta find a way to do this without... I had quoted the lesson of Hitler in World War II, and the other lesson in the 20th century is Vietnam.
And our problem with Vietnam... Those are American lessons.
Yeah, well... I mean, World War... It is.
But our problem with Vietnam was we were not committed.
We were not committed to victory.
I'm certainly not committed to this.
If America is committed to victory... What are we winning?
What are we winning?
Let me ask you, what will we win by this war?
We have to...
Destroy their capability to get to our shores.
Wait a minute, he's giving you the answer.
He said we have to destroy their capability to do what they did.
Okay, and I've heard this compared to they're like a mafia, you know?
Have we ever been able to eliminate the organized crime?
Well, we've put a pretty good crimp in them lately.
Yeah, we've made some dents.
Yeah, they live in Las Vegas.
The Italian Mafia has been replaced by the Russian Mafia and the Chinese Mafia.
We haven't.
But look at how soft we've been on crime.
I mean, that's, again, part of our problem.
That dedication hasn't been there to really getting to the root of the problem.
And really taking out the bad guys.
Not out of justice, not out of revenge.
Let's just call it removal from the equation.
It'd be easier for me to swallow if our rhetoric wasn't so horrible.
All right.
Liz and you two, I want to thank you both very much for the debate.
It was a good one.
Thank you, Art.
Right.
Take care.
All right.
There you are.
Take them, remove them from the equation, is another way to put it.
Or you can use any language you want.
Remove them from the equation.
I'm all in favor of that.
Let's remove them from the equation with... What's the word?
Prejudice?
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi.
Hi.
This is Melody from Nebraska.
Hello, Melody.
And, um, I, I think that If we do this right now, that this is going to eventually launch us into World War III also.
It's possible.
And I think that the other caller was quite wrong.
I think that it's a good thing that we support Israel.
And maybe that's because I'm a Christian.
And I'd also like to comment that, yes, in Chapter 18 of Revelation it does talk about Babylon coming down in an hour.
And there would be dust on their heads and weeping and wailing.
The news has just been scary.
And even Christ said that there would be wars and rumors of wars.
And I wonder, with these national security cards that they're proposing, what is going to lead to?
And as a Christian, there's got to be a lot of us out there looking at this.
Personally, I think it's just talk you're hearing.
I don't think there's going to be a national ID card.
Other countries have it.
Germany has it.
Even France has one.
I don't think we're going to have one.
They're talking about it, but I don't believe it will occur.
I think we cherish our freedoms too much.
However, I don't know how far we can be pushed, and as the danger begins to overwhelm our ability to deal with it, maybe they will go to that sort of thing.
I don't know.
Well, it makes me very nervous, and I think there are a lot of Christians out there that are saying also, you know, a lot of these Muslim beliefs, what if they start targeting Christians because of their beliefs also?
Well, if you were in charge, Melody, what would you do?
What would I do?
Yeah, you're now president, and two buildings have been knocked down in New York.
Thousands of lives have been lost.
Thousands and thousands.
And the Pentagon has been hit, and the prospect is for more.
So what would you do?
I have no idea what I'd do in that position.
I mean, we have to look tough, or else what's to say they're not going to stop?
But I don't know what end this is going to bring if they take away all our civil rights.
Weakness only invites one thing.
You know, history proves that again and again.
Weakness invites invasion.
So are we going to have detainment camps?
And it's just the thought of where this could go is very scary.
Okay.
As an American.
Okay, Melody.
Got the message.
Thank you.
Are you surprised by hearing all of this tonight?
I guess I am.
I thought there was almost universal backing of what we obviously, in my mind anyway, have got to go do.
We have got to remove these people from life with prejudice.
So they cannot do this to us again.
To me that seems so basic and so clear, and what was done is so clearly an act of war.
And if you do not go to war over something like this, or at the very least remove and extract from life those who have done this to us, then we will face much more of it.
To say that if we go and rattle their cages now, Understatement.
Uh, there will be more of it, and they will kill a hundred for every one we kill of them, and so forth and so on, is a position of... I don't know, it's giving up, in my opinion.
It's saying, oh, we've got it good, we've got it cozy, I don't want that to change, I don't want to contemplate the possibility of World War III.
Nobody does.
You'd have to be insane to want to contemplate the possibility of another world war.
And that is... not probable, but possible.
It could spread.
It could become something that would get out of control.
But to not do anything?
How can you possibly count on us not doing anything?
So many of you out there.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hi, Art.
Hi.
This is John in Los Angeles.
Hello, John.
I think this talk about a war isn't the best thing to do right now.
And I think the reason is because we don't really know Who this war is gonna be against.
Because it's not against, you know, some country.
And... Well, the president has, uh, the administration has laid out this Al-Qaeda network that seems like, uh, it's an organization, and I've seen the charts, uh, which is, uh, dedicated to killing us.
They apparently want us dead.
Uh, they don't want us all that much to change our policy, they want us dead.
Right, well...
Another problem is, you know, those 19 men that were on those planes that died are not the only ones that are in this country.
And, you know, listening to your show last night about biological warfare and about anthrax that can be released, that, I mean, I couldn't sleep at all last night because it just got in my mind that, what's next?
What's going to happen next?
And these people don't, they don't fight fair.
No.
So... No, and we could face a biological or chemical attack.
Right.
And I think... But that could happen either way.
And if we do nothing, and we let them just come on as they were, we're almost certainly going to be attacked again.
Well, I don't think we should let them come on as we were.
I think we should definitely tighten up security here at home.
So rather than reaching out and finding some of these thugs wherever they are in Afghanistan, we should tighten our borders, close up, withdraw, And protect ourselves?
Well, not entirely.
I agree that we should go and find out who did this and who's behind it all, but... And then what?
And, well, that's the thing.
See, I don't know how much the government really knows.
All I know is what I, you know, see on TV and hear on the radio.
Right.
So I don't know how much they really know.
All right, let me put it to you this way, then, to make it easy for you to comment.
If we are absolutely certain who or what group did this, then what?
Uh, well, I think, uh, in that case, uh... Yes?
In that case, I mean, it's kind of like playing a chess game.
You have to look ahead a few steps.
Yes.
And I think that's really important to know.
If we make this move, what could happen?
Who would this upset?
Who would, who would be left?
You know?
So we would have to be concerned about who we would upset.
Right.
What, who would retaliate against us?
All right, listen, I thank you for your point of view.
Thank you.
All right, take care.
I don't know.
I'm astounded at what I've heard over the last couple of hours.
We'd have to worry about who we upset.
Boy, I'll tell you, something radically changed in our psyche.
I knew this was going to occur, Given enough time.
In other words, immediately following the event, there was a great rush of patriotism and outrage and people were ready to go and do what had to be done, but given a little time, and maybe the president should be taking notice and the administration should be taking notice of what I'm hearing this morning and you're hearing, the window of opportunity to actually do something may be a short one.
And you may be beginning to see the window close right now.
I don't know.
Remarkable stuff.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello?
No, now you are.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello?
Turn your radio off, please.
Yes.
Okay, go ahead.
Is this Art Bell?
Yes.
Oh, hi!
Um, uh, this is, uh, Charles in the Kingdom of Clark.
Yes, Charles.
I tell you, I am ashamed At America that we do not know our history.
All we get, all people seem to be doing is regurgitating what they've heard on the television.
I'd like people to think about... You think that's where this is coming from?
Everything we're hearing tonight that the experts and the terrorist experts and the international Foreign policy experts are spouting this stuff and now it's being picked up.
Is that what you think?
What I think is that the people don't realize why they hate us.
I mean, those Arab terrorists, they trained in this country.
They lived with Americans.
What could make them possibly hate us so much?
That they'd be willing to kill so many citizens.
What could make them so desperate?
In the beginning, I struggled to understand why nobody claimed credit and tried to influence our country one way or the other.
I've come to the conclusion that they don't want to influence us one way or the other.
They don't care.
There's only one thing they want, and that's they want us dead.
What they want is... You remember Lawrence of Arabia?
Yes.
Well, you see, this is in the history books.
This is no way a conspiracy.
This is the reason I listen to NPR, National Public Radio News, a lot, and they've had reporters from London who've lived with Osama for a while, and this is his reason.
This has been on NPR.
Yes.
And the reason is, after you see the Ottoman Empire, you know the Ottoman Empire.
We've done a lot of time here.
His reason is what?
They believe that we are occupying Arabia.
They believe that the Saudi king, the Saudi royal family, is a puppet of America, England, and France, respectively, and that their holy land, Mecca, and all that they hold dear is under control of heathens.
Alright, I will have to hold it there.
Remarkable night and the beginning of something a little different.
I'm Art Bell.
From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AL.
Bowles in Wilsonville, Oregon writes, aren't you say you want revenge?
Boal in Wilsonville, Oregon writes, aren't you say you want revenge?
You want to avenge the dead.
What in the world do you mean?
It occurs to me you want an equal number of dead innocent civilians on the other side.
No, I don't.
That's not what I mean by vengeance.
By vengeance and revenge, I mean those who killed our civilians, knocked our buildings down, hit our Pentagon, are going to die.
That's what I mean.
I'm not talking about innocent civilians.
Innocent civilians, that's what they do.
When I say vengeance, when I say revenge, I mean specifically against those who did this.
You might, in other times, call that justice.
Personally, it feels like revenge to me.
So, anyway, we'll do another debate, no doubt, this hour.
I'm looking for anti-war types and pro-war types.
And when I get a couple of rabid people on each side of that coin, We'll put them together and we'll let you debate it.
It is an amazing night, no matter how you crack it up.
Once again, into the night.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Good morning.
Hello.
Hello.
This is Shirley from Houston.
Hello, Shirley.
I'm very pro-military.
Pro-military, okay.
Oh, yeah.
And I don't care if you call it going over there and kicking their butts.
I don't care if you call it revenge.
I don't care if you call it justice.
I don't care what you call it.
I like extraction with prejudice.
Ooh!
Sounds good.
I know what that means.
But when they crashed those two airplanes into the Twin Towers, they might as well just crashed it into my house.
I understand.
Because that is exactly how I feel about it.
That was an attack on me personally.
Yes.
Yes, that's exactly what it is.
You know, I just hate to hear someone like the guy before talking about, well, he doesn't know, you know, we should go over and do that.
Not well.
Hello?
Are you, are you surprised that there's beginning to be quite a few voices like that out there?
I sure am.
Yes, I am.
And I know where the president is holding off.
You know, this is a Jewish holiday.
And I'm sure there's some other religious holidays between now and whenever he's gonna make his strike.
I'm beginning to worry that the longer we wait, the more of this kind of thing we're going to hear.
That's okay.
They'll get over it.
Our guys are ready to go, and that's all that matters.
All right.
Thank you very much.
That's Shirley.
And, West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Good morning.
Well, here we are again.
A long night of weirdness.
Yes.
After listening to the callers... Oh, this is Bill in Palm Desert, California.
And after listening to the callers last hour, I'm starting to really have a more fatalistic view of the state of freedom.
We're working up to getting the ultimate Darwin award here.
Yeah, you've got a good point.
Well, I mean, if it's the same freedom that has allowed us to have everyone to speak about peace and You know, it seems to me like it's allowed us to have a pervasive sense of inaction.
Maybe people have begun to conclude that freedom is essentially free.
Yeah, right!
I mean, it used to be give me freedom or give me death.
Now it's give me freedom as long as I don't offend anyone.
I just don't understand that.
I'm a little bit... I'm hoping that some other people are going to come through here and All right, I'll tell you what.
Let me just take one of the lines.
Stay right there, all right?
All right.
Okay, stay right there.
Hello there, on the wildcard line.
Are you there?
Hello?
Uh, yes?
Yes, you.
Oh, hi.
I didn't hear a click.
Where are you?
Oh, I'm in Winnipeg.
See, that's why people always think when their phone is tapped and stuff, they'll hear a click.
Right.
That's ridiculous.
You'll never hear any click.
Exactly.
Yeah, well, I'd like to make just a couple of points.
I'm totally anti-war for sure.
Oh, you are?
Yeah.
What is your name?
Uh, John.
John?
Yeah.
I just make a couple points and then maybe I could have a response to it.
Justice is indivisible.
It's a fairly hard concept to understand, but if you're going to stand on the principles of justice, you have to recognize freedom.
If you believe in freedom for yourself, well then you have to believe in freedom for others as well.
And it's that understanding that equality and what justice means for all human beings being equal.
Like even freedom for your enemy.
Well, equal under the rule of law, you say you can do whatever you want, but don't park your car in a rush hour or we're going to tow your car.
No matter what you're dreaming about, your car is going to get towed because we have those laws that benefit the society as a whole.
So if we believe in those principles and we stand on those principles, true, strong, and proud, and we're courageous, then we would say, you know, There should be no attacks against innocent civilians in any nation.
Not just in America.
I don't think anybody's calling for that in response to this.
Well, here's a quick example.
I believe that peace itself is... Our world peace would be garnered through justice, and the only thing that stops that is our fear of knowledge.
But here's an example.
You have Arafat who says he doesn't support killing innocent civilians, while Errol Sharon Does routinely and it's often police officers and he calls it retaliation but under a rule of law with all people being equal an innocent person dying and being advocated by the leader of the nation being funded by American taxpayers is a crime against humanity and the only thing that stops that argument is censorship
Well, listen, hold on a minute.
I'm not going to debate this with you, but I am going to bring in my other caller who was just here with us a moment ago.
Are you there?
You are?
I'm here.
OK, good, good, good.
All right.
Well, the two of you are on the air now.
This is John in Winnipeg.
And John is not much interested in war.
Right, John?
Well, justice is what I'm interested in.
Just pure justice.
If you advocate going to war, collateral damage, you're showing a disrespect for the lives that were lost to this tragedy.
Wait a minute, there is collateral damage that occurs during war.
We don't target civilians, but some inevitably will be killed.
Right, so what would you say to the argument that you would go against the perpetrator who's committing a crime against innocent civilians and the nation which harbors them, and that would be Uh, Corporate America, afraid of easily obtainable knowledge that's freely available to anybody on the internet.
You can get the information.
Okay, hold on.
Hold on.
Just pause.
So we should go to war against Corporate America.
Did you get that, Kohler?
I don't know.
He's got so many metaphors.
Uh, car parking violations and free information.
What we're talking about is a basic, simple thing.
There's an act of war and his argument is inherently flawed because he's talking about justice like You know, if you write a ticket, you get a car part.
This is an act of war.
There isn't any rule of law and, you know, we're going to go to court and all this stuff.
They basically declared war on us.
They bombed our people, our citizens.
I mean, some of my friends have lived through World War II, and they're telling me that this is worse than Pearl Harbor was in any way.
I don't see how anyone can compare this to I don't know.
Any type of little type of argument about car parking violations or... I mean, this is totally out of the realm of possibility.
It's the function of law is what I was getting at.
Nobody should kill an innocent civilian, no matter what.
Well, that's too late.
It's done.
They already did it.
No, I'm saying, yeah, so if you stand strong and proud on that principle, justice should be served.
Then aren't you suggesting that certain Republicans who fund Errol Sharon would be convictable on accessories to first-degree murders repeatedly?
Police officers, like these, they go after police officers.
I mean, that's pretty evil, no?
How do you defend that?
Yeah, you know what?
You're right.
There are some bad things that happened all over the world in the last 20, 30 years.
So we shouldn't defend ourselves.
We should just, we shouldn't stand up for ourselves.
We should just let them come.
Actually, you know what we should do is we just, we should send a shipment of lollipops to all of them and say, hey, we're not that bad.
Here's some lollipops.
Maybe you won't terrorize us anymore.
Well, if you believe in justice... I'm just really surprised that no one wants to do anything.
So, if you believe in justice, and you're not lying to yourself, you would say that giving Errol Sharon money to murder innocent civilians would be wrong.
Unless you can defend it.
You can't.
And that's what I'm saying.
That's clearly a... I don't think this has anything to do with that.
Yes, there are a lot of things that went on before this happened.
And yes, a lot of it can be pointed to Our domestic policy and our foreign policy.
That's apples and oranges.
We've had an act of war committed upon us.
Now we have to take care of it.
I just think that it's too late for that now.
It's way too late for that now.
Are you familiar at all with Algeria?
In Algeria, what your foreign policy, these people you want to keep hidden in the darkness, you know, light and truth will prevail, I'm sure, but these people who hide in the darkness in the corridors of Congress, I mean, they took out a democratically elected leader.
I mean, you can't defend it, and that's the problem.
Yeah, you're right.
America's inherently evil.
Not inherently.
I guess I'm going to have to go along with that one.
We shouldn't defend ourselves.
No, no, no.
There's criminals in any nation.
If you have one person in government who's a criminal and you don't address that one individual, if you have a person in the Pentagon, one guy who's using biochemical warfare weapons over American populated cities, you don't stand up proud, strong and true and say, we demand justice.
We want this guy at the Pentagon to go into prison for life for attacking innocent American citizens.
If you don't do that, You're not protecting freedom.
You're not protecting justice.
you're not protecting liberty.
Hold on, hold on. One at a time.
Okay. So I just say like it's being brave and strong and true to protect the principles inside of America itself.
Most Americans are beautiful people. You know, just like the people all over the world are beautiful.
Most people don't want to die.
You know, don't want to be murdered?
Most people want to, you know, try to find a way to have a good time with their lives, you know?
But it's, you know, if we don't address reality and protect freedom and justice for everyone, justice for all, you know, in all countries, and look at them as our brothers, if we don't address that honestly and face our fears, I mean, this continuous cycle of mindless violence will continue, and who will die?
You know, just like you say, you go and attack Afghanistan, a whole bunch of innocent people are going to die, somebody's brother's going to go, why, what did I do to America?
You know, I didn't do nothing to America.
All of a sudden, you've blown up my house.
You've spread toxic waste all around the countryside.
I can't farm no more.
You know, and you gotta look at those kind of issues.
Like, often, America will say, well, we're just gonna hit some chemical factories and some drug factories.
And, you know, we're gonna pollute the countryside.
I mean, you do it in your own nation as well.
Alright, let him answer.
Well, I think we're getting to a point here where everyone is more afraid of what will happen So they don't want to do anything.
And I just don't I don't think that's the way to way to go.
All right.
On that note, I'm going to say thank you to both of you and take care.
And I you know what?
I agree with that caller.
I think perhaps we're beginning to we're beginning to fear what might happen as a result of what we're about to do.
How many of you detect that?
A fear of doing anything, a sort of A remarkable change in some psychology going on out there right now.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello, Art, how you doing?
Okay, sir.
Good, I appreciate your show very much, listen quite often.
My name's Eric, I'm from Texas, and I'm just amazed at the people that's calling in tonight.
People don't seem to realize the big picture here, and the big picture is that this is the first time that this has ever happened in the history of the world.
There's something like this.
The terrorist act has been taken upon a nation by not another nation, but by a group of people.
And, uh, uh, all the rules change.
You know, what is the word war?
You know, the rules have changed.
It is not necessarily war.
It is about seeking justice on those people that did this crime.
Well, I think when you use the word war in this case, you're essentially saying that we are going to go and kill the people that have done this to us.
Exactly.
You're not going to haul them back and have a trial.
I don't think.
You're probably going to go kill them.
Exactly.
And you have a lady calling, calling Americans stupid, which just killed me.
It takes her out of the loop right there because she's putting down other people.
And it's just closing down the borders of the U.S.
That's not... We are all living one world.
And eventually, if we evolve the way we should, we will all be one group living peacefully together.
And in order to obtain that, we have to go through these hardships.
And they have bestowed this hardship on us, and we must seek justice.
And that's just plain and simple.
It's not about backing Israel or some Republican that gives the President of Israel money to, you know, do whatever.
I mean, saying they're a criminal, that's ludicrous, because they don't give him the money to say, okay, go kill a Palestinian police officer.
That's just silly.
Well, there's plenty of killing in and around Israel on both sides.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And that's just going to happen.
People are going to fight.
That is the way of the world, unfortunately.
That is human nature.
I mean, how many times have we seen bombs go off in the middle of shopping areas in Israel and people bloody and in pieces getting hauled away?
Exactly.
And now it's moving closer to home and people are freaking out and they can't understand the big concept here.
There's so many different things, ways to look at it, different examples to use.
I'm not putting down anybody here.
I'm American.
I'm very patriotic.
I believe in freedom.
I believe in justice.
I believe everybody has a right to their own spirituality.
I believe everybody has a right to make their own way in the world.
With that in mind, we all need to learn to live in this world, this one world that we have.
You know, without seeing these borders, you know, and in order to do that, you have to, you, we have to live and learn.
And in order, you know, to get there, we have to go over there and seek justice on these people.
That's all there is to it.
Appreciate your call, sir.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Take care.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Good morning.
Yeah.
How you doing?
All right, sir.
Absolute blessing to get on.
I appreciate the show.
I love you and I love the show.
Thank you.
Where are you?
Uh, I'm up in New Hampshire.
Okay.
All right.
I catch you out of five different stations now.
Uh huh.
It used to be a lot easier getting in with less affiliates.
Sure.
Congratulations on that.
Yeah, I'm completely amazed.
The fact is, people have to wake up.
There's no debating that we are at war.
Well, that's what I think too.
But as you listen tonight, it's obvious to me that the more time that goes by, the more of this we're going to be getting.
So I think the window for action might be closing.
Exactly.
People have to wake up.
A man has walked into your home.
Walk through your yard, smash down your door, kill your women and children.
There's no alternative.
And if you're a true American, New York is part of your backyard, your community, your town, your state.
It's so easy to say, well, that happened down there.
I don't know anybody down there.
It's easy to turn my back on it.
And I think a lot of people are questioning their own true colors.
I agree with you.
There's a really... I have to admit to... You know, some of it, sir, is fear.
I think just outright fear.
Well, and I have to ask myself if I'm handicapped, but if I was able to, would I go and die for my country right now?
And I, you know, everybody, I think there's a lot of people asking themselves, you know, how much... I can understand the anti-sentimism.
It's, you know, you look back at the fact that we kept a president in office who Who just cheated on his vows before God, cheated on his wife and his daughter, and we kept him in office.
Um, I never, that was a shock to me back then.
Um, and I don't know if anyone's aware of it, uh, but as of little past 10 o'clock Sunday night, um, the big name in the news before we, uh, this happened, the September 11th was, uh, Gary Condit now.
Um, Boy, that one's gotten lost, hasn't it?
I'm sure Gary Condit's going, thank you very much.
Very much.
In fact, they appointed him.
Congress has a special committee that they appointed him to either head or be part of town safety.
You know, I don't think I've heard the name Condit since this happened, until you just now mentioned it.
No, and I just heard it on another talk show tonight that he was appointed To the special committee of, um, home protection and, uh, you know, town safety.
Defense of the homeland.
So, yeah, you know.
It's hard to understand, and like you say, I would never trust a government, but I mean... No, nobody should ever implicitly trust their government any more than they should trust their enemy.
No, we should have all learned that during Y2K.
Both will invite attack eventually.
You know, any weakness, demonstration of weakness, will invite attack.
Thank you very much.
I've got a scoot.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
We'll do one more debate, or maybe a couple.
I don't know.
It's kind of fun.
It's kind of interesting.
So, Rabid.
Anti-war, rapid pro-war, however you want to put it.
We'll continue to listen to both sides and I remain amazed, astounded actually, at what I've been getting this morning.
And I think that people who pay attention to things like this should be listening this morning and paying attention, close attention.
Because there may be some sort of Sea change underway out there.
I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AF.
All right, riders on the storm, here we go again.
And let's begin here.
On the first time caller line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hey.
Hey there.
Uh, this is Dirk from San Antonio.
I'm calling you from Houston right now on 740.
Yes, Dirk.
And I'm also a truck driver.
I'm in a truck, and as soon as I can get to a spot where I can stop, uh, and get out of the plant here, uh, I can really get into a good debate with you.
All right.
Well, what is your, what roughly is your position?
Well, my position, you know, I'm patriotic.
I'm very American.
Very patriotic.
Republican, because this country was founded as a republic, not as a democracy.
Democracy resides in the 10 square miles of Washington, D.C.
Arsenal, dockyards, military installations, and territories such as Guam, Puerto Rico, American Samoa, and such not.
Okay?
That is where democracy resides.
Within 50 United States... Okay, but Dirk, cutting to the chase here... I understand that.
You know, yes, I agree that It is a tragedy that the World Trade Center came down.
All those people lost their lives.
That is a very real tragedy, and I sympathize with that.
But you know, on the back side of it, you know, nobody's crying about the tragedy of babies being sucked out of their mother's wombs and their brains being sucked out.
Nobody's crying about that tragedy.
There's more than 5,000 babies every day being boarded.
The Falwell argument.
Uh, well, I don't know about whether to follow our argument or not, but, uh, I mean, you know.
Pretty much.
Uh... Alright, so are you, uh, against our retaliating for this?
Well, who are you gonna retaliate against as a nation, as a country?
You haven't got an absolute military strike force.
You've got a guerrilla warfare going on.
Okay?
You'll have to ha- If you're gonna go into a situation like that, you're gonna have to handle it as a guerrilla warfare.
You're gonna have to seek out guerrilla groups, okay, that have got a bitch with the U.S.
I think that's what they have in mind, isn't it?
Okay, but excuse me, how much has the U.S.
been screwing around with other people's governments, countries, black ops, toppling, putting in power who we want for democracy's sake, You've got all these globalists running around trying to, uh, uh, you know, bring everything into a one world projection in one world order.
I mean, crying out loud, you look at the back of a, of a federal reserve debt note, and it tells you that, uh, a new eclectus.
All right.
Hold on.
Hold on.
I'm going to put you on the air with someone else here.
Uh, I think this is, uh, Lauren, Lauren, where are you?
I am in Northridge, California.
Northridge, California.
Alright, uh, you're speaking with Dirk, who's in truck somewhere, Texas.
Okay, well, Dirk, my first, my first response to you, Dirk, would be, so what?
So what about, if everything you've said is true, so what?
The fact of the matter is... So what about the baby?
The fact of the matter is, uh, sir, that we, the United States, on September 11th, was attacked by, uh, people who were sponsored, probably, By foreign governments.
We were, the United States, had an act of war perpetrated upon itself.
Now what are we supposed to do about that?
Sit there and cry about abortions?
Sit there and cry about everything else that's wrong?
While another attack is perpetrated against us?
Not exactly, but I mean, you know, people are missing the point to a point here.
You know, you're crying about 5,000 people, Derek.
Derek, I'm crying about the fact that there was an act of war perpetrated on the United States, And that if one of these people who want us dead, and that's all they want, gets a hold of a nuclear weapon and drop and figures out a way to deliver it upon the United States City, that's going to make the World Trade Center look like nothing.
And there's going to be all these rightful... What about the act of war of this American government?
Has perpetrated on the American people for the last 50 years.
What does that have to do with the crisis here in Kabul, Dirk?
Stick to the point.
What are you going to be... What's going to be happening?
What are you going to be saying when you're in your second day of radiation sickness, vomiting and diarrhea, getting weaker and getting ready to die?
Are you still going to be worried about abortion?
Are you still going to be worried about all this irrelevant and extraneous material that you're talking about?
You know, I think you guys really missed the point on all of this.
I think you really do.
Answer my question, Dirk.
You're not answering my question.
I'd like an answer to that question.
When you're in your second day of radiation sickness and you're going to die because the terrorists have dropped a nuclear bomb because we didn't do anything about it, are you still going to be worried about abortion?
Are you still going to be worried about all the wrongs of the United States government and all this stuff?
Or are you going to be wishing that we had done something when we had the opportunity to do it?
Well, here again, Who exactly are you going to declare war on?
Who are you going after as a military target?
You don't have a military stripe.
worse now your hair is falling out are you still worried about all this?
Who are you going after as a military target?
I believe what the president has stated... You don't have a military uniform.
You asked me a question would you like me to answer it?
I believe what the president has stated is that we're going after Osama Bin Laden, the prime
suspect, the Al Qaeda network and those who harbor, house, feed and finance them
to answer your question.
Well, I guess you're going to go out there and go wipe out the whole Middle East because they're all pissed off at us.
I mean, is that how you would interpret my last statement?
Is that what you're saying?
Who else was that?
I'd still like to know, Dirk.
I never got a satisfactory... I never got a... I never got a... I don't believe they will use a nuclear weapon on us.
Oh, so it's just not gonna... It's just not gonna happen.
We don't have to worry about it.
That would be your answer.
Well... I think you're stretching the point too far.
I think you're overreaching the boundaries, Dirk.
I'm overreaching the boundaries by suggesting... I think a lot of people are overreaching the boundaries... Alright, listen you two.
Hold it.
Hold it.
Dirk, Dirk, Dirk, Dirk.
Hold on.
One at a time.
Try and do it one at a time, gentlemen.
Okay, do you say I'm overstating the boundaries by suggesting what several other people, including a commission about six months to a year ago, suggested that the United States could be subject to a terrorist nuclear attack?
How about, okay, Dirk, while I'll even withdraw that nuclear question, let's say there's a biological attack on the United States, and let's say you're dying of anthrax.
Are you still going to be worrying about abortion, Dirk?
That's still going to be the thing that's topmost on your mind there?
No, I don't suppose at that point I probably would be worried about it.
No, so why do we need to wait till he gets back?
Your question's flat out, but I don't think your question actually holds water too much.
Okay?
Yeah, they perpetrate all this, you know, anthrax this, nuclear this, you know.
Yeah, they want the people to be all bugged up in fear.
Do you believe in cannibalism, Dirk?
Cannibalism?
Well, the Donner Party did it.
Would you advocate human sacrifice, sir?
They do that every day, Bubba.
Okay.
Well, the fact of the matter is, Dirk, that things like cannibalism and human sacrifice are not condoned in modern society, and jihad cannot be condoned either, Dirk.
Well, don't you see that?
Stupidity and fear can't be condoned either.
And that's exactly what kind of campaign the government's running, is a stupidity and fear campaign, okay?
It sounds to me, Dirk, like you're the one who is living in fear at this moment.
No.
Because you're not willing to stand up to these people?
You're going to wait until you have anthrax?
I am not in fear at all.
I'm not in fear at all.
I don't have to fear.
My God has not given me a spirit of fear, but of peace, love, and a sound mind.
And peace and love and sound mind, is that going to protect us from a biological or nuclear attack from Osama Bin Laden?
You guys don't really understand, do you?
Do you recall Neil?
He is not the absolute only one.
Dirk, what kind of spirit did God give Moses when he killed 3,000 people when he found them all partying and disobeying God's laws when he came down from Mount Sinai?
Well, Moses didn't kill them.
Oh, he didn't?
I think if you... I think if you... I think if you haven't read your... I think you need to read... The ground opened up and swallowed them up.
Dirk, that was core.
I think you need to become a lot more...
I think you need to get a little more familiar with your Bible, Dirk.
By the way, for both of you, these people who love us in Kabul, demonstrators in Kabul at this hour, according to CNN, angered by prospects of a U.S.
attack, have just set fire to the U.S.
Embassy in Kabul.
Okay, Dirk, so now what are you gonna do?
I heard about that already.
Yeah, so then that doesn't bother you at all?
That doesn't bother you at all?
No, I'm not surprised.
So what should we do, Dirk?
Tit for tat, tit for tat, tit for tat, where's it gonna end?
Well, Dirk, I think it's going to end with us having more freedom and more security and the ability to live our lives as we want to.
More freedom?
Are you kidding, buddy?
My goodness, they're already, you know, walk up and searching.
This is like War on Drugs.
Excuse me?
CIA goes out and pumps all the money.
What does that have to do with the price of tea in Kabul?
I'm trying to explain it to you, okay?
If you'll back off and listen for a second.
You got this War on Drugs, okay?
CIA goes out and pumps all the drugs and buys all the drugs and sends it into the country.
The DEA is supposed to have a job of trying to keep it out.
You got two of them fighting against each other.
Nobody knows anything unless anything's tipped off.
And somebody calls it in.
They call in one shipment so ten more can go by.
I've talked to too many military people that be flying back in on their C-130s and their military aircraft transport And a damn mule flying along right beside him and somebody saying, hey, see, oh, look at there, man, there's a drug mill.
Now, you can't say anything about that.
Dirk, what's your point?
Oh, wait a minute.
War on drugs?
War on drugs?
Let me tell you about war on drugs.
No, tell me what your point is, Dirk.
We only have a few minutes here.
I do agree, Dirk.
I'm trying to make a point here.
Please.
War on drugs?
Okay, you got a woman that saves $1,200 to take her children to the Mouse House in Florida.
She's driving along 95 in Georgia.
She must be going three miles over the limit.
State Trooper pulls her over, openly searches her, doesn't have a warrant, searches her, searches her car, finds $1,200 cash.
She tells them they're going to the Mouse House for their vacation.
The children say, yeah, yeah, we're going to see Mickey.
The cop takes her money, leaves her and the children standing on the side of the road, and confiscates her car.
War on drugs.
She's going to Florida to buy drugs.
What does that have to do- You talk about freedom?
Dirk, what is your point?
Alright, now, my point is, is reversing this over to war on terrorism.
Now they're gonna openly walk around, they're gonna take whatever they want, whenever they want from you.
Search anything they want from you.
You can't even go into a courthouse with a pen in your pocket.
Excuse me?
All right, all right, I think I understand his point now.
He's saying that the war on terrorism is going to end up being a war on freedom, which he could have said in a very short way, but anyway... Well, I tried to give some kind of a scenario, so there's somebody could understand... Okay, so there you are anyway.
Any response to that?
Yes, I would... First of all, I would hope that in the long run that that would turn out not to be true.
I believe that we can prosecute this war without...
Losing a lot of our civil liberties and a lot of our freedoms if we act in a sensible way and a united way.
And again, I just don't think we're going to be really worrying about that if we're dying of radiation sickness or breathing anthrax.
All right, listen, at this point, I've got to say thank you, both of you, and I've got to move on, but thank you.
Thank you.
Right.
OK.
Good night.
All right.
So there you have it.
Remarkable.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hey, Art.
How are you doing?
OK, sir.
This is Abby.
I'm from Dallas.
Yes, Abby.
And all I have to say to Dirk is abort the Taliban.
You know, I was sitting there thinking about this, you know.
I don't like to see the government frame this criminal act on us as terrorism.
I don't think that we should be giving certain criminals the dignity of terrorism.
I mean, terrorism seems to have kind of a dignity to it, you know.
Like one person said that a terrorist to us is a freedom fighter to them.
Yeah, that's what Reuters News said and so they're not going to use the word terrorist anymore.
I found that remarkable.
Yeah, I think we should reframe them as criminals and go after criminals rather than terrorists because terrorism has a political, cultural, theological dimension that I really think that that just muddles the whole thing.
They're killers of innocent people.
Yeah, they're murderers.
They're criminals.
They're not terrorists.
Actually, they're mass murderers.
Yes.
And insofar as that, I think we should go ahead and prosecute it as, you know, hunting down criminals, hunting down organized crime.
And then the big solution after that, I think, is commerce.
You know, Anybody knows, anybody knows, you know, studying of history, that the people who control the money and the real estate control the political system, control the culture.
Well, look at World War II Germany.
We rebuilt that after the war.
In fact, we have rebuilt most countries we've gone to war with, and then there has been commerce.
You're right.
And I really believe that That we can buy their private property, and the more private property that we own in the Middle East, the more power we have, the more leverage we have against terrorism.
And, you know, I'm sure that, you know, if you have any of those terrorists out there listening to you right now... Israel's been doing that.
Look at their settlements.
Yeah.
Well, you know, I think that if we bought it without the, you know... You know, they're angry at the Jews.
I know.
I know.
I wouldn't even tell for that, but I couldn't resist.
Yeah, I know.
But, you know, I'd just like to let those terrorists know that all their private property is a target to their enemy.
And their enemy is me.
All right, sir.
I appreciate your call.
Thank you very much, and take care.
West of the Rockies.
You're on the air.
Hello.
Hello there.
Yes.
Oh, you're on my other fader.
Go ahead.
Okay.
Yeah.
This is Scott from Phoenix, Arizona.
Yes, Scott.
And first, I'd like to ask if you're going to bring Sean David Morton back and hear what he has to say.
Oh, inevitably.
Yes.
Oh yeah.
I'd like to hear him.
Sure.
And second of all, I think Dirk needs to have his head checked.
And third of all, I hope Bush does something soon because I think the window of opportunity just might be closing.
I'm even getting a little nervous about this.
He's doing this big, massive buildup and yet No action yet.
I mean, I know he's putting our troops in these surrounding countries around Afghanistan and everything.
And you know, but now that from what I hear from the administration today, you know, calm down.
We're not going to do a D-Day.
We're not going to bomb.
I know it's like they're sort of beginning to maybe move a little in reverse.
And, uh, you know, there may be a number of reasons for it.
I mean, they may not have all their ducks in a row.
They may not know for absolutely certain that it's Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda.
There may be some evidence they thought they had that they don't quite have.
I'm speculating.
I really don't know.
But listening to my callers and listening to these folks tonight has got to be something of a wake-up call for anybody out there concerned about the window of opportunity to do something.
Right.
Because, you know, and when Bush signed that executive order, On, uh, freezing assets on the Al-Qaeda organization?
Yes.
Why didn't he do it with Hamas, Hezbollah, and his own jihad?
It's a good point.
Yeah, I mean, he said he was going to do a war on terrorism, yet he only goes after this one organization.
Yeah, I understand that they're uncovering links to Hezbollah.
Yeah, and obviously Saddam Hussein has to have a hand in this, and we should go after him and take him out.
And forget what the rest of the world says, you know?
We saved all these other countries during World War II, and And World War I, you know, we're trying to protect our freedoms over here without all these other countries trying to, you know, say, oh, America should do this.
All right.
Well, how about this?
We are in the middle of putting together the world against Afghanistan, against the Taliban, against Osama bin Laden and his organization.
It's like we're trying to get every single last country.
I think there's now only Pakistan that continues to have any relationship at all.
Right, I think they're trying to keep that window of opportunity open from, you know, having at least a link to the Afghanistan government in case they do try to bring, you know, some of the terrorists over, which I don't think they're going to do.
Well, what I wanted to ask you was, do you think that we should have acted quickly and unilaterally, or at least as quickly as we had some evidence?
Should we have acted unilaterally and not worried about the rest of the world?
Yeah, well, yeah, I think we should have done a symbolic strike back, you know, hit some of the terrorist organizations, hit some of the military camps, Because I'm sure all those camps and those terrorist camps and everything, you know, they're deserted.
They're gone.
Those guys are hiding in the mountains in Afghanistan.
They blended in with the public.
We're not going to find these guys.
They're just going to blend in with the regular military on the Afghanistan side or, you know, just blend in as, you know, refugees or whatever.
These guys are going to run and hide.
We're not going to be able to find them.
I, to some degree, I really, I do agree with you.
We could certainly destroy the camps, but all you're doing is, you know, you're destroying a bunch of huts.
Yeah, a $10 million missile on a $25 tent.
You know?
You're right.
You're actually right.
So... And I think we lost the opportunity.
We should have struck within the first two, three days.
You know, because these guys probably didn't know what we were going to do, and we might have caught them off guard, but now... One of the problems might be that we didn't have enough human intelligence on the ground to even do that, so we're sort of having to do it after the fact.
And I kind of blame Clinton and Bush and Reagan, you know, for cutting all the human intelligence stuff off back after The late 70s, you know, kind of went from the late 70s on through up and after the Clinton years, it really got bad.
They just depended on satellite technology, Project Echelon.
You're exactly right.
Listen, I've got to scoot.
Top of the hour.
All right?
Thank you very much.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
Can a guy from anywhere go to sleep up over and wake up a millionaire?
Only in America can a kid without a set get a break and maybe grow up to be president.
Only in America, land of opportunity, yeah.
Put a classy girl like you all for a poor boy like me.
Once again, into the night and east of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Good morning.
Good morning.
Yes, sir.
What position do you have?
Well, I'm against this war.
You're against it?
Yes, sir.
Why?
Well, I don't feel that it's going to solve the problem we have.
Well, let's define the problem then.
The present problem is that thousands of Americans were killed in those buildings that were hit with airplanes in New York at the Pentagon as well.
That would be, narrowly put, our current problem.
Yes.
And you don't think it'll solve that?
Oh, definitely not.
No war is going to bring back those people.
That's for sure.
What would you do if you had the reins of power?
Well, I would set up, instead of putting all this money towards the war, I would put all that money towards peace.
Toward peace?
Yeah.
Instead of having a new cabinet member for Homeland Defense.
Homeland Security.
Maybe we could have a cabinet member for World Peace.
World Peace.
Alright.
Hold on a moment.
I'm going to put you together with my wildcard... What is your first name, by the way?
Tim.
Tim?
Okay, Tim.
I'm going to put you together with somebody here on the wildcard line.
Caller?
Hello, yeah.
My name's Brad.
Brad.
Okay.
I'm in Glendora, California.
Did you hear what that gentleman just said?
Yeah, I did.
Uh-huh.
Okay.
Gentlemen, it's all yours.
Oh, what was your name, dude?
Uh, Tim.
Tim, look, uh, you know, all this anti-war sentiment is a moot point because it's all gonna disappear after they hit us another eight or nine more times.
Uh, I disagree with you there 100%.
When our casualty rates hit 300 or 400,000 people, When it threatens you specifically, see, as far as you're concerned, New Yorkers got hit.
When it comes to your hometown, and you are under physical threat day and night, your anti-war sentiment is going to change, and you're going to say, go George Bush, let's get those bastards.
Well, first of all, you're assuming a lot of what I think here, and second of all, I disagree 100%.
I think this anti-war sentiment, or actually I would prefer to call it pro-peace, and you guys can be anti-peace if you want to.
But this has been, you know, in existence for as long as I can recall, and it's gonna stay.
And I think ultimately it's more powerful.
What city do you live in?
Oh, Kansas City.
Okay, so you're in a fairly big city, probably one of the top 20 in the country.
You would be a prime target for these clowns.
Oh yeah, I'm sure that I could be a prime target here.
So when a crop duster comes flying over Kansas City and they take out, oh, let's say 100,000 people, You're going to be still waving the peace flag saying, well, we'll just sit back and love these guys and they'll eventually leave us alone.
You have to sit down.
So when we go over there and find out whoever we're going to attack, whoever that could be, and attack them...
You think that's going to stop these people who are already here in our country?
Look, it probably won't stop them.
No, it won't at all.
But if we could curtail 90% of their activities, we're going to be far better off.
How?
They're already here.
How?
They're already here in our country right now.
Well, that's how you're going to stop them.
They're next door to you.
You've got to start clamping down on these guys.
They knew the consequences before.
They knew we were going to bomb the hell out of them if they did this.
But they did it anyway.
They don't care.
All you can do is try to stop.
If your reasoning worked, we would sit there and say, we don't need police on our streets.
We'll just let the streets roam free and they will handle themselves.
Peace will eventually win out.
It's not going to work.
We have to stop them.
We have to be there to put people in their way to prevent them.
Okay, one or two are going to slip through, but it's better than 20 or 30 slipping through.
Ah, they're always going to slip through unless you can work through their problems.
Yeah, but I'd rather have one or two slip through than 20 or 30.
Well, it doesn't have to be 20 or 30.
It doesn't have to be any of them.
It can be one or two of them.
That's why you have to stop them.
You have to stop them.
They only got 8,000 people in the World Trade Center.
What happens when they get a stadium of 50 or 60,000 football fans?
Exactly. What happens then, huh?
Well, but you gotta stop them before...
Tell me how.
How do you stop that one guy from going into the stadium and setting off a bomb?
You monitor everything that the President is proposing.
You tell him, you cut off their funding, you try to catch them before they do it.
How did the FBI stop the Italian Mafia?
They put a severe crimp in them by cracking down on them, by monitoring phone calls, by following them, by checking them out.
And they pretty much shut them down.
It's the same thing.
We have followers going back thousands of years, and they're not going to just stop because of a little bit of pressure.
Organized crime and terrorists... And they attack us anyway.
Organized crime and terrorists are the same thing.
Same kind of network, same kind of underground shenanigans.
You gotta get in there and you gotta fight them.
One war at a time.
You take one guy down, then another, then another.
You get a cell here, you get a cell there, and you start cracking down on them.
That's the only way you're gonna stop them.
How many of our kids are we gonna kill in this effort, huh?
whatever it takes to defend the country.
How many civilians will we lose in the bombings of this effort, huh?
Whatever it takes to protect the country.
Whatever it takes, it don't matter to you as long as we get these guys in the end.
We're the good guys, huh?
It's not going to work that way.
It's a question of protecting our soil, our sovereignty.
our sovereignty.
If we relax and let them come in and have their way in this country, how long are people going to tolerate that?
You realize if they hit us six or seven more times, you're going to have former Marines jumping on pleasure craft with their rifles headed for the Middle East?
People will take this into their own hands if the government does nothing about it.
I don't see anybody getting on their boats and going overseas.
You wait until they hit us three or four more times.
You know, they haven't hit us since the bombing.
I think they're waiting to see what we do.
And they're expecting us to bomb them.
And as soon as we do, they're going to retaliate.
It's only been a couple of weeks.
There's all kinds of reports in the news.
There are cells all over the place.
They're trying to learn crop dusting.
Yeah, they want us to know that we're still around.
Yeah, and they plan to make further attacks.
You're only two weeks out of the initial attack.
Yeah, but war is not going to stop those attacks.
War is just going to make them happen faster, make them happen more.
Make more people want to do it.
Would you propose that we just sit back and let them hit us as many times as they want until they get tired of it?
No.
I say we prep our defenses a little, but we gotta start initiating some peace talks.
He's talked with who?
Nobody's even taken responsibility for this.
Well then who the hell are we going to bomb?
You can't put in peace talks with people that don't even acknowledge that they've done this.
Well, there's people behind it.
If they want to talk about it, we should give them the opportunity.
All we can do to protect this country is do exactly what the President is doing.
Let them do their investigation.
They were able to track down the Libyan terrorists and all these other, the people that shot down that plane over Lockerbie, Scotland.
They were able to eventually track all these people down.
There's still more.
Hey look, we're going to track these guys down.
There's still going to be more.
Oh man, this is going to be endless, okay?
We're never going to get them all.
Right, but we got to at least try to stop them before they run.
Instead of aggravating it more.
Why don't we try to, you know, make peace instead of making more war?
It's possible.
They don't understand peace.
They do.
They're perfectly intelligent people.
To come up with these huge plans, they have to have some kind of intelligence.
They are not intelligent when they live in the hills and bathe once a week.
Oh, come on.
Oh, that's BS.
They're intelligent people.
Look, you live in a liberal fog.
You have all these ideological, intellectual concepts in your head, and you think it's all going to work.
Look, socialism on paper is a great idea, but it doesn't work because men are greedy and men lust for power.
That's a pretty fatalist view.
Huh?
That's a pretty fatalist view.
It's a realistic view.
Aren't we all human?
Don't we all have the capability of, you know, Better than that?
These intellectual, ideological ideas just do not hold up.
They do not work in reality.
How do you know?
Have you ever tried it?
People have a tendency toward evil.
Who's tried it?
Gandhi, right?
It worked for him, didn't it?
Worked pretty damn good.
Tim, I want to ask a question.
Tim, if you became convinced that their only interest was in killing us, in seeing us dead, Uh, you know, gone.
Really dead.
Uh, and that's all they really wanted from us.
They're not making demands.
They haven't made any.
They haven't even taken credit for it.
And if, if that's all they want, is they want us dead, uh, what kind of, uh, dialogue would you propose with these people?
Well, first of all, I think that's very highly unlikely that they would really just want us dead, or even be conceivable that they could attain that goal.
Really?
Uh, but, um... I would just... That's... I mean, that's a big if statement.
You can ask a million if statements.
I mean, you can talk about it as much as you can.
Well, I would say, presently, that's all we can conclude, because they have not made any demands, have not wanted any policy changes.
They simply have killed a lot of us.
Well, you know... What?
If any of them picks their little head out, they're gonna get it chopped off.
So, they gotta wait.
They don't have a choice but to hide right now.
Brad?
When it becomes personal and they hit your family, your friends, your tune is going to change.
It's already personal.
It's already my family and friends.
Because look, when you go to run, you're not going to be able to run to Canada because they're going to be after Canada too.
I'm not worried about that, my friend.
I'm not worried.
You know, Alaska might be your last option.
I'm not going to run away from anything, okay?
Because it'll come home.
If you don't do anything to stop it now, it's going to come home to your front door.
To your front door.
It's already at my front door.
It's at my neighbor's door.
When you walk out to go to work in the morning, you're going to be thinking, what do I have to look out for today?
When it hits that point, you're going to change your tune real quick.
No, I'm sorry.
It doesn't matter what that might be.
You already agreed with me.
You said we're going to have to beef up security here in this country.
OK, well, fine.
Well, they've already done that.
But to beef up security and not to go after them to slow them down, that's crazy.
Well, it's not going to slow them down.
It's going to speed them up.
Bombing them is the only thing that's going to aggravate them.
If we don't bomb them, they're going to sit back and wonder what the hell's going on.
They are aggravated already.
Okay, yeah.
Do you realize that if Israel did not defend itself, that they would have been bombed back into the Stone Age a long time ago?
Oh yeah, probably.
Okay!
So we have a prototype in the world of what we need to follow.
If we sit back and do nothing, we know what'll happen.
So you have to sit there and go after them.
They're not the only ones who are a prototype.
Like I mentioned Gandhi, he was a great example.
Okay, but Gandhi is one guy.
We have 6,000 years of history in this cu- in this world where wars have settled disputes across- No, they have never settled disputes.
That's why there's still war.
They always have.
If war settled disputes, there would be a- that is totally- That's your ideological nonsense again.
It doesn't hold up in a realistic situation.
What problem has war solved?
Tell me that.
Huh?
Name one problem that war has solved.
Well, it killed Hitler.
They didn't solve a problem, they put a band-aid on a problem.
Well, no, I mean, look, had we not stopped Hitler, who knows what the world would look like today?
Well, we didn't know what Hitler was doing until he marched into Germany, did we?
I mean, look, Gandhi is a very poor thing to hold on to.
I mean, one guy, and he really didn't accomplish a whole lot in India to begin with.
Or just freeing his country, yeah.
I mean, when you think about it, Over 6,000 years, war has settled disputes between men because men have a tendency toward greed and a lust for power.
That's what men understand, and that's how you have to fight them in their terms.
You can't sit there and intellectualize everything and say, well, peace, give peace a chance.
John Lennon bit the bullet.
Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm a man too, you know, and, uh, I think peace is a great idea.
I don't really care for war.
Well, look, it's great as far as, you know, this fantasy out there, but it's not gonna work.
Why does it have to be a fantasy?
Why can't it be real?
The world has never seen peace.
So?
Okay, so to sit there and hold out this, uh, this, uh, you know, friendship ring and say, well, here, let's give it a chance now.
It's not gonna work.
It never has.
How do you know?
We've never tried.
Oh, please.
people have had peace talks left and right north and south korea
they've been talking peace for twenty years of their story to each other's
throats and i would have been a kind of a on that
you have to take a stand stand against these guys
it do your best to keep them out of the country in a fight a more realist and
that was all that's going to work that would do it that's all that that's all that men understand that the uh...
finest and more than i think i'm a man
i think a man and a stand-alone to you you and take kennedy and diane
feinstein you all four of them fly over to the middle east and you try to
straighten it out with the you all come home in body bags They don't want to hear your liberal ideological nonsense.
They could care less.
They could care less!
All right.
So what are you going to accomplish, my friend?
All right, listen, you two.
Uh, let's hold it there.
This was a really good one.
I want to thank you both.
Sure thing.
All right.
Good night.
Thank you.
Oh, hey, Hart.
Yes?
Uh, I just wanted to mention that the Hopi people, uh... Oops.
Sorry, I lost you.
Something about the Hopi people.
Sorry about that.
Well, that was a good one.
That was absolutely a good one.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello?
Hello.
Oh, this is me.
Hey, okay, cool.
Yes, it is.
This is Brad out of Phoenix.
Hi, Brad.
And this is the first time I've ever called a radio program, so forgive me if I'm a little nervous.
I wanted to kind of share with your audience a couple of things that I know.
Some of the jobs that I've had in the past couple of years have brought me close to the Special Operations community in San Diego and with the Navy and the Marine Corps.
Oh, yes.
Something that people do not understand about the type of war that we're in right now is that this is not going to be a TV war.
Here, hold on just a second.
Sure.
No, you're right.
It's not going to be a TV war.
That's where a lot of the debate that people are having coming out of, they're talking about, we're going to go bomb this and bomb that.
When the special operations people go in, you're not going to hear a damn thing.
I mean, these people are going to wake up dead.
In fact, I'm sure there are people that have already died over this at the hands of our special operations people and probably will continue to do so for quite a few years to come.
That's my hope.
And it's never going to be something that you're going to see on CNN.
And the reason is because with special operations, you have what's called operational security.
Um, that is in place to protect all of the operators that are out there.
Um, if, uh, if somebody shows this stuff on CNN, something they just did, that's going to directly threaten their lives and the president.
And I want to, I just want to, I mean, my, my hat's off to the guy because this is one of the first presidents that I've ever seen in my lifetime.
That is really stood up and said that he's not going to compromise operational security and flat told the news media not even ask questions about it.
I mean, it's something that we have to do.
I mean, when you look at this group, you got the first time with the WTC.
That's pretty bold.
The first time they bombed the WTC.
Then they got the embassies, okay?
That's right.
And then they went after the embassies, then they go after the coal.
Now they've come back again.
Every single time that every single one of these actions that they've been behind, they
step up in boldness level.
So you don't think a Gandhi-like response to this...
Hell no!
You go Gandhi with these people and they're going to cut you down where you stand.
And not only that, but I think that the next thing that we're going to be looking at, when
you look at the WTC, when you look at the buildup in the boldness and the sophistication
of these people, the next thing, if these people get their way, the next thing we're
going to be seen as some kind of an NBC attack.
I mean, flat out.
I mean, where do you go up from the World Trade Center?
What just happened?
Probably with the biologicals or chemicals.
And they're not going to do it in one place.
They're going to do it in multiple places.
OK, so when all of these people that are out there give peace a chance, give this a chance.
Look at your kids.
Look at your wife.
Look at your husband.
Okay, because it's gonna be them that is gonna die if we don't go after these people and we put them in their grave.
I agree.
Okay?
And when you look at how Germany... Germany went through this problem in the 70s, and they had a reaction to it.
It's called GSG-9.
You look at the list of the terrorists that the GSG-9 went after, and you know what?
They're dead.
Mm-hmm.
There's X's over every one of their faces on their wanted posters.
Okay?
And you know what?
They don't really have a terrorism problem anymore.
You wanna know why?
Because there's no terrorists left!
It's not a war that's going to be won overnight, but these people that did this, if this is prosecuted in the way that other countries that have successfully dealt with terrorism, these people that did this are going to die.
And anybody else that knows that they're going to try something like this, they know they're going to die.
Well, after listening tonight, are you now confident that we have the resolve to be in this for the long term, not two weeks, but two years, ten years?
We're going to have to be in this for probably, I would say, at least ten years.
And I mean full bore, and people are going to have to be behind the president no matter who it is, and you're going to have to back this.
Because like I said, if you don't, look at your wives, look at your, you know, look at your wife, look at your husband, look at your kids.
Okay?
Look at your best friend.
They're going to be the people that die.
Now any person, I heard this one guy, this last guy that they just had on that was saying, give peace a chance.
Any person, okay, that would not stand up to defend their neighbor under this kind of attack is just a flat coward.
I'm not going to miss words.
I'm not going to be nice.
You're a coward.
And you're not going to be the kind of people that solve this problem.
So if you want to sit here and spout about all this stuff, go have peace rallies somewhere.
Keep it to yourself.
Well, you know that's not going to happen.
Well, I know.
But I mean, this is just absolutely obnoxious.
What's going to happen next?
Listen, I've got to run.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
Have a good night.
You too.
you thank you.
You.
All right, everybody, let's rock.
West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
Good morning.
Good morning.
How are you doing, Art?
I'm all right, sir.
Great.
Hey, don't be dismayed, you know.
It's hard.
I mean, this is amazing.
To hear this tonight is amazing.
I'm not all that surprised.
Really?
Well, you know, look at our top 40 and the most popular shows on TV and all that.
I don't think the majority of the people are all that keen on politics and world events.
Well, you know, I was just almost absolutely convinced that for once we were really one as a nation.
I didn't even suspect there was this much underlying... Whatever it is you want to call it.
Maybe galvanized as a nation, but, you know, there's all these different... People have these different points of views.
And a lot of it is this semantic.
I find myself, you know, myself and my wife, we raise our voices discussing the thing because she goes, I, we did this, referring to maybe some bad things the country did at times, and I'm going, wait a minute, don't include me in that.
I didn't do that.
I didn't massacre the Indians.
Those were my forefathers.
And maybe they weren't even my forefathers, you know.
I come here from a line of immigrants, too, somewhere down the line, you know.
I don't think Osama's worried about The Native American, not that what we did is anything to be proud of, of course, but I don't think that's the issue somehow.
Right, and I don't really see a connection with people bringing up Israel, and I'm not sure that Osama's all that concerned about the Palestinians.
Anybody he can recruit for his cause and his interest, you know, great.
I think that's his point of view.
I, the Islamic people worship in so many varied ways and if you put them, a bunch of them
in a room, they have varied opinions.
I've heard several of them over the last week or so even on your show and they have, most
of them in America, you know, don't want to, don't approve at all of what he's doing, but
they all have different points of view on other things as varied as everybody else,
you know.
We're not, the idea about war and going to war isn't the same as a lot of wars in the
past and we're in a sense defending ourselves.
I'm not a war monger, but I'm not going to just stand there and let somebody beat me up.
I'm going to defend myself.
Well, it seems to me, and I was in Vietnam, it seems to me that there were arguments that could be made sort of esoterically about why we shouldn't be, for example, involved in somebody's civil war.
Uh, although I understand the larger picture.
I understand why we're in Vietnam and I supported it.
I was there.
But in this case, my God, it's our own shores.
It's our biggest city.
It's thousands of American innocent civilian lives that were taken.
I just, you know, it's, it's like, it's a no brainer to me.
Uh, it's re it's reprehensible.
I couldn't understand, uh, if the government wanted, uh, our government wanted more people to have Support the Central American conflicts and our involvement there.
Even arguments there?
Well, not to make any kind of comparison in terms of what's going on now, but the type of... When I was young, people would lie about their age to get into the military to go fight in Vietnam because they really felt there was some patriotic thing going.
And there really wasn't that for the Central American wars.
And here, there is a lot of patriotism.
In terms of, you know, the country being somewhat galvanized about atrocities against us, and we'd feel the same way if it happened in another country, really, but maybe not as intense.
But the idea of going to war scares people, and the idea of World War III scares people, and the idea that these people are going to retaliate.
Well, you know, it's funny, because I, for 30 years, expected this kind of stuff to go on in the world, the quickening, the end of the world.
You know, I'm like, you know, going, gee, late, finally got here, you know.
And then they say seven out of ten people are depressed.
Well, you know, I guess, well, that's why I've been depressed all my life, because I've been expecting all these things to happen.
Indeed, sir.
And I'm not suddenly depressed now.
You know, I'm kind of like, well, gee, you know, okay, I told you so.
Not surprised.
I expected it to happen.
And, you know, it's time to do the things we need to do to protect ourselves, defend ourselves.
The idea of the concept of a war, These people, if they're going to do this, whether it's Osama Bin Laden or any other group, if they're going to terrorize civilian populations, they need to be rooted out.
This country, all over the world, and it'll probably be something that goes on until, you know, I don't know, the second coming of Christ or... Maybe, thank you, maybe what we're hearing is fear.
And I think in that young fellow, the Gandhi fellow, that it was fear.
We're just going to make them mad.
They're going to do more of it.
And I think that it's fear.
That's just a guess.
I really think that's what it is, though.
It's... It's fear.
Fear of more of the same.
I wonder how you get these people to understand that what's most likely to bring more of the same is if we do essentially nothing.
That'll guarantee more of the same.
It seems to me that there's just no choice here at all.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Yeah, hi Art.
Hello.
This is Kevin in Rainier, Oregon.
Yes, Kevin.
Yeah, I just... It's amazing how many people are walking around out there without a spine.
I like to give an analogy.
It's one that we've all heard.
Let's say, you know, you're a kid in high school, kind of a small kid.
You walk down the hall, you got your books in your hand, and there's always this bigger kid.
He walks by and he just hits you, knocks the books out of your hand.
Everybody laughs.
He shoves you up against the lockers.
You don't react and, you know, he gets thrown out of that.
Next day, same thing happens.
I mean, same thing happens.
My point is, if you don't react, I mean, if you finally just wallop, wallop that bully, you know, he'll think twice.
That's right.
Before doing it again.
That's right.
But if you don't, well, hey, that just shows to all the other bullies in the world that they get their thrills off of pushing other people around.
Hey, you know, this kid, yeah, he's gonna take it.
He ain't gonna do anything.
He's a softie.
Let's all shove him around.
But if he shows, look, you know, I got pride and I got, you know, I'm not going to stand here and take this.
And he does come back.
Well, you need to personally think twice before they do it again.
I couldn't agree more, sir.
And if you look at how the Russians, the Soviets actually reacted to terrorism, they certainly experienced it.
And you may recall, they sent the body parts of those terrorists back to their families.
Now, I'm not advocating that we do that.
Because we don't have to do that, but we have to react.
I certainly agree with that.
And we have to go and essentially kill the people that have done this to us.
And that's why I think they're using the word war.
Now, I could be wrong about that.
I don't think we're going to be dragging anybody back for an extended court appearance.
I think we're going to go and eliminate them as you would a mad dog.
They do shoot mad dogs.
And to me, they're nothing better than mad dogs.
They killed innocent civilians.
As many as they could possibly kill.
They planned and executed extremely well, you have to admit.
Executed a plan to kill as many Americans as they could.
There is only one response to that in my mind.
And that's to go and kill them.
And eliminate them wherever they are.
Gone.
Off planet.
End of story.
Well, maybe not.
End of story.
And there could be more.
And maybe that's what people fear.
I don't know.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
Yes, good morning.
Good morning.
I am absolutely amazed at the idealists who cannot see reality.
Our world, not just the United States, is never going to be the same.
No.
I wish that you had taken this a step further and asked The age of the callers, especially those who are against.
Well, I think our last one, our Gandhi, our Kim, was a young fellow.
Or if they've ever served in a war?
Or, I mean, have they even seen the devastation in person?
Which is a nightmare for all of those who have been there.
Well, taking Kim's part for just a moment, he probably would have said, well, did Gandhi serve in a war?
He probably would have said that.
Gandhi was involved just with his one little country and those who opposed him.
Gandhi was not part of a whole world saving our lives.
I mean, everything has been affected by this.
Our economy, our lives, and yes, they will not stop.
This is stupid.
This is pure evil.
Absolute evil.
I'm beginning to agree with that.
I at first thought we would get some demands.
We would have somebody take credit for it and we would get some demands to change some policy or something.
Not that we would.
But at least we would hear that they wanted something.
That there was some motivation.
Like any crime, you look for a motive in the crime.
And I'm beginning to believe that in this case, they simply want us dead.
Absolutely.
It doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks.
These few have simply gotten on a road of pure evil.
And it's sad.
I wonder if we are going to, because we have formed this grand coalition of countries, almost the whole world, whether we are going to allow this coalition to dictate some lesser path to us than we otherwise might have taken.
Well, quite frankly, I don't think we can succeed without the coalition because of several factors.
One, I saw a dateline tonight and they had someone on who had been part of the training back when they were fighting against the Russians and he explained how, he said it's amazing that they go out to fight with very little because they know where in the country they have water supplies hidden Buried.
Sure.
And food.
Sure.
And our kind of war, we don't know that kind of war.
It's completely new and foreign to us.
I guess we will soon.
But we will find out soon.
And the other sad factor took place where on our own local television show they had followed some recruiters who went on campus area and to ask the young people, the young men, A few of them, what they thought about it, and their final analysis was, after talking to several of them, that the young people of today, the me generation, would prefer to have mommy and daddy give them a nice new car for graduation, and to have a very expensive job that would give them all the luxuries that they think are so important in life, rather than going to the service and protect their country.
Well, if what I heard tonight is any indication of what may be out there, the recruiters are in for a rough ride.
Very rough ride.
And you would have thought that with an attack of this magnitude on our own homeland, there would not have been this.
And so it's just shocking, surprising me.
Can I take a few more minutes and tell you something?
Sure.
I had gotten an illness last month that kept me home and kept me in my chair and kept me from moving practically.
And I happened to pick up a book from the used bookstore, which was Uh, fiction.
Under the religious section where I never go look.
But it turned out to be a series of books dealing with those left behind.
The drama of those left behind.
There are 8 volumes out so far out of 12 to be completed.
Those left behind?
Yes.
It's Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins who I think might make interesting guests for you at this time.
Art, I spent that entire month Dealing with my physical problem.
Reading those books and could not stop.
Those left behind?
They deal with revelation and it's fundamentalism which, you know, I'm not part of that.
But it had caught me so much that I really understood what pure evil was.
Gotcha.
Alright, alright.
Thank you very much.
Well, it's been a pleasure speaking with you.
Good night.
Uh, pure evil.
You know, actually, we have to consider that as a possibility.
Have any of you really looked at the pictures on my website?
Photographs on my website?
Without any question whatsoever, the photographs on my website have got to be considered.
Now, what am I talking about?
I'm talking about the devil, the evil, in the smoke.
During the explosions in the World Trade Center, without any manipulation of any kind of photograph, we've got raw photographs on my website that, without question, without having to use your imagination, without anything else, show evil.
There is no question about it in my mind.
They show evil.
Pure evil.
I suppose you could be one who would say, well, you can see anything in anything, but to me, it's clear.
Take a look.
If you haven't seen them yet, the phases in the smoke that emanate from that explosion, without question, are pure evil.
It's all on my website at artbell.com.
Take a look for yourself.
Speaking of pure evil.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Yes, Art.
I'm Shirley from Baton Rouge.
Hello, Shirley.
I'm a veteran.
And I was in the Vietnam War.
Well, I wasn't stationed in Vietnam, but I was stationed in Germany.
Okay.
And I gave up my rights to be in the military.
I mean, everybody that is in the military gives up a lot of their rights.
That's right.
And I feel like that right now, with all this apathy, that I served in vain.
No, you didn't.
Well, I understand your feeling, but you did not serve in vain.
One other thing.
I need to ask you a question.
Sure.
Do you know that right at this moment there are two women, American women, that is in jail in Afghanistan?
Yes, I do.
For proselytizing.
Well, yeah.
I mean, there were visiting some people over there that, you know, were Christians, and we're trying to get people to, you know... Listen to the Word of God, our God.
Right.
And, you know, that may bring the death sentence.
Yes, that's true.
And I'll tell you, all these people, and this lady that just got off the phone, I was really impressed with what she had to say, and most of them is all, you know, throwing my thunder.
There is a movie out right now that everyone can go and see, and it is on Revelation, and it's playing in the regular theaters.
It's called Megiddo.
Megiddo.
Megiddo.
I'm going to have to see that myself.
The town where Armageddon is going to be fought.
And I mean this young man named Tim.
He talks about peace.
Well I think he needs to go and see that movie because the Antichrist does not give us choice in peace.
And it's expressed very well in this movie.
When the Antichrist talks to our president... Well, no matter which side you listen to my callers on, the anti-war side, the pro-war side, or the pro-let's-do-something-about-it side, both sides admit that this could lead into something awful.
It could lead into Armageddon.
It could lead into World War III.
That's right.
You've always got to imagine that.
When you go into combat, that could occur.
And so there's a lot of fear out there, and I think that's what we're hearing tonight, is fear.
But I think they can lose their fear if they go and see this movie.
Magetto, huh?
Magetto.
All right.
And there are very good stars in there.
Fact is, I don't remember his name, because my mind doesn't work too well sometimes.
But the star of the show, who plays the Antichrist, because he took a big sort of person, he's English, he played in Jesus of Nazareth as Saint John the Baptist.
A good Antichrist has to be British.
Right.
But anyway, it's a very good movie, and of course, it's put on by Trinity Broadcasting, but it is in, you know, it was filmed with normal people.
It's in regular theaters, huh?
Right.
All right, I'll look for it.
They're playing right now.
All right, thank you very much.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello.
Yeah.
Yes, turn your radio off, please.
Yep, just did.
Good, go ahead, sir.
Where are you?
I'm in Mesa, Arizona.
Mesa.
Okay.
Yeah.
Um, okay.
Um, when I was in high school, you know, right before I got out, um, I, I signed up and I joined the United States Navy, you know, not, not cause I wanted to go to war, not because, you know, I wanted to die, but because, you know, everybody in this country that is, you know, done whatever they could do, you know, fire department, police, doctors, you know, they're giving a little bit of themselves to, uh, It may be in the hopes that, you know, it would make, you know, more opportunities and give more privileges to the people that are gonna come past them, you know?
I wanted to give of myself, you know, what I could back.
Okay.
You know, kind of like being grateful for what I have in my opportunities.
Kind of like that.
You know, like the opportunity that everybody has to call on this radio station and voice their opinions and tell how they feel about things.
You know, some countries, if, you know, to get up and speak like this, You know, they'd have your head blown off before you got a chance to hang the phone up.
Absolutely.
Call would be traced on the door and you'd go off to re-education camp or worse.
Yeah, you know, that would be it because, you know, you're talking bad.
That's, you know, unacceptable.
That's right.
And, you know, everybody right now is whining about, you know, their rights are being taken away.
Whining, yes.
A lot of them aren't even rights.
Well now, I don't want my rights taken away.
The rights are outlined in the bill of rights, you know, and I don't want those taken away.
Listen, we gotta go, we're out of time.
From the high desert, that's it for this night, for this guy with this bad back.
I'm Art Bell, from the high desert, ta-ta.
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