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Sept. 24, 2001 - Art Bell

02:46:26

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical Warfare - Craig O. Thompson

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	♪♪♪ From the high desert and the great American southwest, I
	bid you all good evening, good morning, as the case may be, even good afternoon.
	From the High Desert to the world, all time zones, this is Coast to Coast AM, and I'm Art Bell.
	How you doing?
	Well, here I am, once again, after lollygagging for another week.
	Actually, let me tell you a little bit about my back, just so that you understand.
	When it does what it's doing, Uh, it renders me useless as a human being.
	In other words, I can't sit down.
	I can't lie down.
	I can't... certainly can't walk.
	I'm all doubled over and, uh, it just sort of zaps me as a human being.
	There's really nothing you can do when your back attacks like that.
	There's nothing you can do.
	But right now...
	He's bitter.
	And so, I predict I'll be here for a while, but of course, I've done that before, haven't I?
	So, we'll take it as it comes, the way you do with life, I guess.
	Eight new ghost photographs on the website right now, as of about half hour ago.
	So, if you like looking at what may be on the other side, on my website at artbell.com, eight brand new photographs.
	Looking at, oh, and here's another item for you.
	Looking at the headlines I was about to say it's all of course the 9-1-1 attack and I have been monitoring your temperature out there and the way I do that is with my own email I get about one to two even if I'm not on the air last week every day one to two thousand emails a day three or four thousand when I am on the air and so I've been monitoring all of you and what you're interested in and what you want to do and so far
	There is no question about it.
	95% of the audience is writing or is concerned about, of course, the attacks on America.
	Plural, actually.
	With perhaps more to come.
	And I don't blame you.
	We'll not turn the programming around here until I see that you want to turn it around.
	And I'll go by my email and, you know, input from you in various ways.
	Tonight, over the last couple of days, ever since they grounded The crop dusting airplanes.
	It occurred to me that we are probably in real danger of bio or chemical attacks.
	I think obviously the government is in real fear of that or they would not keep these airplanes on the ground.
	We know that one of the terrorists had a crop dusting manual.
	We know that he went to visit, in fact Larry King interviewed a fellow he went to visit earlier tonight to learn all about crop dusting.
	How it's done, all the rest of it.
	And so, the federal authorities obviously think we may be in for an attack.
	And if they didn't, they wouldn't be grounding those planes.
	Now, I know very little about chemical warfare and bio-warfare.
	Biological warfare, I'm sure you do the same way, right?
	As a nation, we have discussed the danger to us from nuclear attack ever since I was a baby.
	And we pretty much know about radiation, I think, and we know about nuclear, the possibility of nuclear winter, and all the things that could occur if America went, if the world went to a nuclear conflict.
	But we don't really know very much.
	I mean, I ask myself, what if somebody got up there in a light plane, a crop duster, and were to disperse chemical or biological weapons?
	What the hell would happen?
	What really would happen?
	What are the possibilities?
	And so tonight we're going to have a guest that is going to address that.
	He was here last week, I believe.
	Craig O. Thompson is his name.
	And that's what he's going to be talking about.
	And I'm very much looking forward to it.
	Of course, as always, for those of you who don't feel this subject material appropriate, you're not going to want to listen.
	That'll be next hour.
	Craig O. Thompson.
	For those of you who want to know what's going on, like me, you're going to want to be here.
	Now, President Bush has assigned an order which freezes the assets of 27 people and organizations, calling it a strike at financial foundations of terrorists.
	He demands foreign banks follow America's lead.
	A government has extended grounding of crop-dusting planes through Monday amid fears of biological or chemical attack, indications that the suspected hijackers showed interest in crop-dusting.
	Government says all airport workers with access to planes in any secure areas are going to have to go through brand new criminal background checks.
	And they want to reissue IDs for these people.
	Makes sense.
	Suspected terror mastermind Osama Bin Laden calls on Pakistan's Muslims to fight the American Crusade.
	Now that was in a supposed fax by Bin Laden.
	to a news authority in Afghanistan.
	And I'll have a little bit more on that.
	They don't know whether it's real or not.
	The news organization suspected it was because he had used them previously to get word to the world.
	Russian President Vladimir Putin says the nation, his nation, will intensify support of Afghan opposition forces, those in the north, And is prepared to supply them with weapons and military equipment.
	Ruling Taliban says they are dispatching 300,000 fighters to defend Afghanistan's borders.
	United Nations says Taliban has threatened to kill UN relief workers in Afghanistan.
	Now that's not going to be a popular one at the UN at all.
	The death toll at the World Trade Center is at 276.
	The missing number, and presumed dead, of course, is 6,453.
	And it probably will go up more.
	So there you have it.
	That's kind of what's going on.
	The pilots would like to carry guns.
	The pilots on domestic civilian flights have decided they would like to carry guns.
	And I wonder how you feel about that one.
	You always have to worry that A gun present is a gun that can be taken away.
	And you would think pilots would have to go through an awful lot of training before it would amount to a wise decision to let them have guns.
	But then on the other hand, they are going to take, you may remember on the first night of the disaster, we talked about double doors between passengers and the cockpit and the pilot.
	And we talked about the possibility of putting the passengers to sleep and that sort of thing, so the pilots have decided that they would like to carry guns.
	That's their solution, and I wonder how you feel about that.
	We're going to be in open lines in the first hour.
	I do have a little item that Tom Clancy broadcast to the world, courtesy of the London Sunday Mail, and I would like to read you at least a little bit of that coming up in a moment.
	Stay right where you are.
	Alright, the following comes from the London Sunday Mail, and it's Tom Clancy's word.
	The world's highest paid fiction writer, whose thrillers have now sold, would you believe this folks, 60 million copies.
	Can you imagine that?
	60 million copies, and I've read most of them.
	Tom Clancy says as follows, it was a friend of mine, Formerly of the Royal Navy, who first pointed out that the casualty count on this incident exceeds that of Pearl Harbor.
	Yes, my country has taken a big and costly hit, and somewhere, perhaps in South Asia, some people are exchanging high fives and having themselves a good laugh, and maybe they're entitled to it.
	Like Pearl Harbor, it was a well-planned and well-executed black operation, but, you know, they've made the same mistake that Japan made back in 1941.
	It's remarkable to me that America is so hard for some people to understand.
	We are the most open of books, after all.
	Our values and customs are portrayed on TV and movie screens all over the world.
	Is the character of my country so hard to grasp?
	Japan figured they could defeat us, not physically, but morally.
	That America was not tough enough to defeat their death-seeking warriors.
	We'd be unwilling to absorb the casualties in this.
	They were right.
	We didn't absorb all the casualties they tried to inflict.
	But that was because we killed their Samurai much more efficiently than they were able to kill our men.
	An enemy willing to die in the performance of his duty can indeed be a formidable adversary.
	But you see, we've dealt with such people before.
	They died just like everyone else.
	Perhaps the American sort of patriotism, like the British sort, just isn't bombastic enough for our enemies to notice.
	We don't parade around thumping our chests and proclaiming how tough we are, whereas other people of that sort display all the time.
	But they don't seem to grasp the fact that they do it because they have to.
	They evidently need to prove to themselves how formidable they are.
	Instead, our people, like yours, train and practice their craft every day, Out in the field, places like Fort Bragg, North Carolina, Fort Irwin, California, I've been to both places, seen the people and how they train.
	The difference between a civilian or a common ruffian and a soldier, you see, is training.
	A professional soldier is as serious about his work as a surgeon is about his.
	Such people are not, in my experience, boastful.
	If you ask what they do, they'll explain it to you, usually in quiet tones, because they don't feel the need to prove anything off-duty.
	They're like everyone else, watching football on TV, enjoying a quiet beer with their pals, they read books, shop at local supermarkets, and mow the grass at home.
	They all enjoy a good laugh, and they make the best of friends.
	They look physically fit, and indeed they are, because their job requires it, and every day they do something tiresome in the field, or get some more or less demanding field exercise again and again and again, until every aspect of their job is as fully automatic as zipping one's zipper is for us people in civilian life.
	But you know, inside all of these people, such as the 82nd Airborne at Fort Bragg, the 75th Ranger Regiment at Fort Stewart, Georgia, there burns a little flame.
	Not a big one.
	Instead, like a pilot light in a gas stove.
	And when you put more gas there, the flame gets bigger.
	Enough to cook with.
	Inside every one of these people is something else.
	Something you have to look for.
	Pride.
	They know that they are good at their work, in the event they have to do it for real.
	This doesn't happen very often.
	Indeed, they are not ordinarily lusting to do it, because it's a serious, nasty job.
	The job is the taking of life.
	Military organizations exist for only one mission, killing people and breaking things.
	This is not something to be undertaken lightly, because life is a gift from God.
	And a lot of these people, kids really, can be found in church on Sunday mornings.
	But their larger purpose, the reason these kids exist, both in my country and yours, is to prevent, protect, and defend their nations and the citizens who live there.
	It's not an easy job, but someone has to do it.
	Typically, the hardest jobs attract the best of us.
	Mostly, they never have to kill anybody.
	That's okay with them.
	It's knowing they're able to do something difficult and dangerous that gives them their pride.
	This purpose, defending their country, is something they don't talk much about.
	But it's always there, and it comes with a quiet, steely look in the eyes, especially when something like this happens.
	That's when their sense of self is insulted.
	And these people, who do not bear insults well, they're protectors.
	And when those whom they are sworn to protect are hurt, then comes the desire, the lust, to perform their mission.
	Even then, it's quiet.
	They will not riot, or pose before TV cameras, or cry aloud for action because that's not their way.
	They are the point of the lance.
	The very breath of the dragon in times like this, they want to know the taste of blood.
	Their adversaries don't appreciate what they are capable of.
	It's something too divorced from their experience.
	This isn't like hosing civilians with your machine gun.
	We're setting off a bomb somewhere, or killing unarmed people strapped and helpless inside a commercial aircraft.
	This means facing professional warriors at a time and place of their choosing, and that is something terrorists don't really prepare for.
	The day of Pearl Harbor, the commander of the Japanese Navy told his staff not to exalt too much, that all their beautifully executed operation had accomplished was to awaken a sleeping dragon And give it a dreadful purpose.
	Perhaps alone in his country, Isorogu Yamamoto, who had lived briefly in America, knew what his enemy was capable of.
	And for that reason, perhaps he was not surprised when the .50 caliber bullet from a P-38 fighter entered his head and ended his life.
	Whoever initiated last week's operation is probably not quite as appreciative Of what he has begun, as Yamamoto was.
	Because a dragon is now fully awake, and its breath is too hot for men to bear, America is now fully awake.
	Our quiet patriotism is a little louder now, but it will not get too loud.
	Why spoil the surprise?
	And I thought that was quite good.
	That was Tom Clancy.
	So, there you have it.
	The balance of this hour will be in open lines.
	Anything you want to talk about is certainly fair game, judging from the number of emails I'm getting.
	It's obviously what has happened to this country.
	People say, let's get back to normal.
	I heard it all weekend long as football, NFL football resumed, and the baseball guys began to play again.
	But it's not normal, is it?
	It doesn't feel normal to me, and I don't know that we'll ever be back to normal.
	I suppose we'll begin to... Oh, I don't know.
	We'll be... I'm sure, I guess, we'll begin to... You know, people do.
	Even when close family members die, they get back to some sort of normal.
	You put one foot in front of the other, and you keep going, no matter what.
	But we're not normal right now.
	I certainly understand fully.
	We're not normal right now.
	Not even close to normal.
	And as I talk to people, friends, acquaintances, this is about all they're talking about.
	East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hi Art, I'm turned down by radio.
	I didn't expect to get on.
	Well, there you are.
	You're on.
	Okay, I have a problem.
	Glad to have you back.
	Hope your back is better.
	Thank you.
	Thank you very much.
	Let me try and reset this.
	Okay, let's try it again.
	Boy, for some reason I've got a lot of echo with you, but go ahead.
	Okay, I have a problem with pilots and guns.
	I don't mind being armed, but people with guns go berserk.
	Your guest a few weeks ago, Anne Tracy Blake, talked about Prozac.
	Some of these men take medications.
	What do you do if somebody goes berserk?
	What are you talking about?
	Pilots don't take Prozac.
	No, no.
	Oh yes, I know some of them.
	Nah, I don't believe it for a second.
	Commercial pilots who are taking Prozac Are off of flight duty, believe me.
	Well, unless it's done very carefully, but sleeping gas is dangerous.
	I would prefer stun guns, you know, but I'm worried about bullets on a plane, you know?
	Alright, well I'll bear that in mind, thank you, and we'll let everybody think about that.
	You know, I know, but it's a last resort.
	And if some of those four pilots had had guns, maybe, just maybe, I mean it's possible that the hijackers could have taken the gun away, of course, and used it on the pilots, right?
	And or the passengers, and we always have to bear that in mind.
	But it would have given a pilot the ability to stop a hijacking cold.
	Or at the very least, dispatch a couple of the hijackers.
	So it's got to be something we think about.
	The pilots are going to have to go through some training.
	Anybody who carries a gun bears a gigantic responsibility, as police officers will tell you.
	And they bear, with the carrying of that gun, the same responsibility you would Perhaps even greater, considering their position.
	So they'd have to go through an awful lot of training, but it's not necessarily a bad idea.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	Going once.
	Going twice.
	Gone.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	How you doing, Art?
	Okay, sir.
	Where are you?
	This is Dave from Cleveland.
	Hi, Dave.
	What's on your mind?
	I've just got a question.
	What do you think Is going to happen over there in Afghanistan.
	I know none of us know and they're not really want to let any of this information out.
	I just wondered, what do you think?
	They're going to really bomb the hell out of these guys?
	Or you think they're just going to go in quietly and try to get this guy?
	I don't know if they can do that.
	Well, I think they're going to turn the terrorist camps to dust, for starters.
	But they're probably empty now, abandoned by bin Laden and company.
	They're going to chase him down.
	They're going to try and chase him down.
	I think we probably will take out some of their infrastructure and we will go after the Taliban's army.
	300,000 now, they're talking about.
	They just dispatched.
	That's a considerable number.
	Yes, it is.
	I think we should just wipe them all out.
	I think we're liable to go after Iraq at some point here, if not at the beginning.
	I don't know.
	The military's doing what they do, and that's keep all of this secret, so I'm only a guessing.
	Yeah, even when it's over, it'll still never be back to normal the way it was, though.
	I don't believe so, anyway.
	No, I don't think so.
	I have not felt normal.
	I noticed the TV dispatched some recent survey done of the American people that said one out of three was having a hard time sleeping.
	I'm one of those three.
	The first week, I think I got six hours sleep total.
	It was terrible.
	So, uh, no.
	It's not normal, and it's not going to be normal for some time to come.
	Yeah, that's it.
	A lot closer to home than I imagined, but, uh, I guess you should expect something like that.
	Well, we did.
	We talked about it, and then all of a sudden, it really happened.
	So, there you are.
	I wonder what we're going to do next.
	I'm like the last caller.
	I kind of wonder what's going to happen.
	I don't really know.
	I'm just speculating.
	Certainly we're going to hit those terrorist camps, whether there's anybody there or not.
	They're not going to be used again for some time, I'm sure of it.
	Other than that, I don't know.
	You know, if you hit the infrastructure of that country, you're kind of bouncing the rubble around because it's already a disaster.
	You go hunting bin Laden, that's for sure.
	And I guess you fight Taliban troops.
	Beyond that, I'm not sure.
	But that's why I'm a talk host.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm going to be doing a video on the Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm going to be doing a video on the Wanna take a ride?
	Call Art Bell from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach our debt 1-775-727-1222.
	The wild card line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	And to call out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them
	dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
	Well, there's one song on the infamous banned list.
	Anybody hear about that out there?
	It's all over the internet.
	Supposedly Premier Radio and Clear Channel.
	Have banned this and a whole bunch of other songs.
	I've got some of the other ones, too.
	I've been checking.
	So, if it's true, then here you go.
	There's your banned music.
	If it's not true, and I don't think it is, because I went to a premier site and looked it up, clear channel site, and they deny there's any band list at all, but it sure is going around the internet, so... I don't ban songs.
	And I don't think my company does either.
	At least they have an official absolute denial.
	So it's another internet rampage out there with people just making things up.
	Shame, shame, shame, shame.
	In a moment, we will continue with open lines to the top of the hour when we'll begin to talk about biological and chemical terrorism and what it would mean, what they really could do.
	That's what I want to know, what they could really do and what we could expect Nobody else is talking about it, so I thought we would.
	They all talk about the possibility and answer questions and say, yes, it's a worry, but then you don't hear any more about it.
	Except maybe a word or two about anthrax.
	So if you want to know what they could really do, we'll be talking about that at the top of the hour.
	Ooh, listen to this from the Japan Times.
	Pentagon said to eye nuclear attack against terrorists.
	The Defense Department has recommended to President George W. Bush the use of tactical nuclear weapons as a military option to retaliate for last week's terrorist attacks in the United States, according to diplomatic sources.
	Tuesday, it is unknown whether Bush has made any decision.
	Military analysts say the President is very unlikely to opt for the use of nuclear weapons because, in doing so, he would generate a backlash from the international community.
	That's putting it mildly.
	I think that they would do an awful lot before they would resort to nuclear weapons.
	Because, of course, the coalition they have built would disintegrate almost instantly.
	And, besides that, I don't think they need to use nuclear weapons.
	I think we'll get the job done quite efficiently with the force that Mr. Clancy described very well, I thought.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air, good morning.
	Yes, actually, I just had one thing that I wanted to speak about.
	Speak of it, sir.
	In the wake of all this airport security madness that's been going on, I'm just wondering why we haven't heard about the use of base recognition software.
	The technology, I believe, that was used at the Super Bowl last year.
	Yes, the Super Bowl I walked into and gave face to.
	To do the very thing, to scan for, I believe, terrorists is what they were using.
	No, I think they are using it.
	Really?
	I'm sure they are.
	In the airports?
	Well, maybe it hasn't reached the airports yet, but you would think it would be a valuable tool for them, wouldn't you?
	I believe two of the terrorists were on the FBI watch list, and if they had programmed something like that into the database, I'd have to guess that they would have caught them before they hit the plane.
	So it's a very good point, sir, and I would imagine some of that face recognition technology could probably run on a Pentium 4, wouldn't you think?
	HoneyM4 is pretty doggone fast.
	They're coming out with, what, 1.8 Meg processors?
	Something like that?
	So they could probably run that software on a PC.
	Maybe not.
	I don't know.
	Anyway, it's a good idea.
	WildCardLine, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Karen from Iowa.
	Hi, Karen.
	I've been... There's so many things I want to talk about.
	Okay.
	But there's one thing I would... Actually, there's several things.
	The fact that they were saying that we are not cowards like Americans where they send bombs from thousands of miles away.
	But the most cowardly act I've ever seen in my life is someone who will not stand up and say, we did this.
	Well, it makes me wonder about the motivation for the whole thing.
	I mean, why didn't somebody stand up and say, we did it, and we did it because we want U.S.
	help to Israel to stop, or whatever in the hell their motive is, they should have stated.
	The Israel issue.
	That Israel is killing innocent women and children, and the deal is, we are the only country that will Back Israel.
	Financially.
	No we're not.
	That's what they're led to believe.
	We're not the only country.
	And the Palestinians kill Israelis too.
	Almost every day.
	I know.
	And I was also told that you never hear about the Palestinians that are killed.
	You only hear about the Israelis that are killed.
	Oh, no.
	You hear about the Palestinians.
	If you have your ears open, you hear about both.
	Okay.
	Well, actually, I'm repeating, okay?
	And then Afghanistan.
	We give money to Afghanistan, too.
	Israel and Afghanistan.
	And we sanctioned Iraq.
	Well, we have given humanitarian aid to Afghanistan, and God knows they need it.
	That country is a disaster area.
	I understand.
	They have nothing to lose.
	But Iraq, they say we're making innocent women and children suffer there.
	It's going to be a very hard war to fight because we're not really angry with the Afghan people.
	For the most part, the Afghan people are fine.
	It's the Taliban government and their support of this murdering son-of-a-bitch, bin Laden.
	And so we're going to go get them.
	And it's a shame that there will be some collateral damage.
	There always is in war.
	But make no mistake, this is war.
	And they have attacked us.
	They have attacked New York City.
	They have killed thousands of Americans.
	More than Pearl Harbor.
	There's no contest here.
	This is war.
	We will try to conduct it at a slightly higher moral level.
	We will go after the government They're soldiers and the people who killed our people.
	That is a distinction worth mentioning.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi Art.
	Hello.
	It's good to have you back.
	Thank you.
	Something that I thought about this whole last week or so, Ed Daines has talked so often about the fact that the remote viewing was a viable program and there's another gentleman that you have on Frequently, who does that?
	It's not just Ed Daines, it's a whole litany of people who were involved in the military remote program.
	Sure, it's real.
	And Ed said that the Russians had had some success with that too, and Putin has committed to assisting the United States.
	Is it a real possibility that that group of people could be tapped to go into some sort of a joint venture where they could remote view some of these terrorist cells?
	Yes.
	And do you think that Ed has already been contacted or is this something possibly that... That part I don't know but I have talked to Ed and Ed of course was scheduled to be on the program and will be as soon as events allow for it and I'll let him tell you himself what he has recently remote viewed and it's not pretty.
	Yeah, I realize that but it seems as though this is a chance for them to do such tremendous good if that truly is something that is a viable real thing which I've I always looked at it with more or less a grain of salt.
	The other thing that I would encourage, you have a tremendous audience worldwide and positive energy is a powerful thing.
	You've done some experiments on the collective consciousness before regarding some other topics.
	I would urge everyone who listens to Coast to Coast to join jointly in thinking about this as a collective group.
	Pulling our prayer and our efforts and positive thoughts on it.
	And just the last thing, in response to that lady that just hung up, she needs to remember that yes, we have sanctions against Iraq, but I guarantee you that Mr. Hussein and his multi- Castles and palaces around the country are being well maintained and there's enough money in that country that his people do not have to go hungry.
	Oh, that's right.
	I appreciate it.
	Thank you very much.
	In addition, billions of dollars have been allowed by the U.N.
	to be used, you know, oil sold by Iraq for use by the people and, you know, it never reaches the people, of course.
	Or very little of it does.
	Most of it maintains palaces.
	builds the new bombs and scary weapons that would be used against us.
	And I think there's probably ample evidence that there's been a lot of interchange between Al-Qaeda and Iraq.
	So it wouldn't surprise me, but there would be almost a simultaneous attack on Iraq.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes, sir.
	Yeah, all right.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Portland.
	Portland.
	All right.
	And your name?
	Portland, Oregon.
	My name is Paul.
	Hi, Paul.
	How are you?
	I'm sure glad you're back.
	Thank you.
	And I do pray for your back.
	Thank you.
	Because I know what that's like.
	I played hockey for 17 years in Boston.
	Anybody who's ever had this happen knows what I describe.
	Anyway, to get to the point, what I'm calling about is, you might disagree with me on this one, but I don't think bullets and airplanes belong in the same room.
	Well, they don't, of course, but airplanes don't belong on 110-story skyscrapers or on our Pentagon either.
	You're right.
	And to keep the airplanes, if it takes that to keep them off, or it takes passengers rushing the hijackers, then so be it.
	Yeah.
	I mean, they need to double lock the door.
	Well, of course they do.
	And they're going to do that.
	But beyond that, should they somehow get through, then I think it should be the pilot's discretion to blow several of them away, if possible.
	Box cutters are no good against guns.
	Yeah, but a bullet in an airplane is not a good thing.
	Especially if you're at 5,000 feet.
	Yes, you will.
	Especially if you're at 5,000 feet.
	Yes, you will.
	Actually, 5,000 would be alright, sir.
	You need to pressurize an aircraft by regulation pretty much above about 12,500 or 13,000 feet, somewhere in there.
	Below that, you'd be okay.
	Bullets in aircraft are not good, but aircraft on U.S.
	assets killing U.S.
	citizens, that's not good either.
	On the international line, you're on the air?
	Hello?
	I didn't mean to call in on the international line.
	Okay.
	Well, in that case, sir, I've got to go.
	Thank you very much.
	You'll have to call in on one of the regular lines.
	I appreciate the admission.
	First time caller line.
	You're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Art?
	Yes.
	Hi.
	I'm Mike from Minnesota.
	Yes.
	How are you doing?
	Fine, Mike.
	Well, great.
	You know, I don't think arming the pilots is a good idea.
	Why not?
	Well, see, I'm a retired police officer.
	Okay.
	And arming anybody We're not totally... Mike, would you turn your radio off, please?
	Okay, yeah, one second.
	Everybody turn off their radio.
	It's on, it's on.
	Alright, because... I understand that.
	Alright, now, you say arming anybody is not a good idea?
	No, it's not.
	You know what they should do is reconstruct the airplane itself.
	They should... You know, the... Mike, they're going to do that.
	You don't have to argue for it.
	They're already doing it.
	They have a bulkhead in between In between the passengers and the pilot.
	Mike, you're not listening to me.
	They're already doing it.
	Hello, Mike?
	Yes.
	They're already doing it, Mike.
	Well, that's good, because if you can't get to the pilots, the pilots have control of the plane.
	That's true.
	But there's always the possibility, one way or the other, that they get in.
	And if they do, better and better that our guys would have a gun than Well, they should have a gun if they're enclosed in a bucket wall.
	You mean in the cockpit, right?
	Yes, we've got that, Mike.
	Thank you.
	There is no question about it.
	They are doing that as we speak.
	As an additional safety measure, the pilots would like to be armed.
	And as a last-ditch measure, I'm in favor of it.
	Never bring a box cutter to a gunfight.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Good morning, Skipper.
	Good morning to you.
	Huh?
	Good morning to you.
	It's so good to hear that sweet, gentle voice on the air again.
	Thank you.
	What is your first name?
	This is Dave and Christopher.
	Okay, Dave, what's up?
	Well, I have two points real quick for you.
	First off, I have an idea for what we call agricultural terrorism that we could impose on Afghanistan.
	And what we would do is take a huge loaf of French bread, And pack it into a missile.
	And for a warhead, a nice large jar of Peter Pan.
	Dave, do you have anything meaningful to say?
	Well, I do.
	Okay, good.
	Get to that.
	Well, the thing is, the thing is that with their cutting off of the food supply, okay, by the Taliban to the people, we could do that to scurry the populace.
	Well, we already have been giving a great deal of food and that type of aid to Afghanistan.
	Yes, and they've quickly seized it, too.
	Well, my second point is... Actually, it's your third.
	Okay, okay.
	We're going into a very dry arid land with a man-made sewer system.
	Why don't we think about rain?
	Think of Iran?
	Well, alright, Afghanistan needs rain.
	They have had a drought for several consecutive years now, resulting in a lot of starvation that's going on there right now.
	And that's what I mean when I say it's hard to imagine how we're going to attack Afghanistan.
	I can't quite get it straight in my mind.
	If we attack their infrastructure, certainly government infrastructure, military capability, I understand all of that, the terrorist bases, and go after bin Laden, but To attack their infrastructure, their electrical systems, that sort of thing.
	It's sort of bouncing the rubble a little bit.
	That nation already is a disaster.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello, this is Will from Salt Lake City, Utah.
	On a cell phone.
	Yes, Will.
	Yes, I am.
	You know, I work for the Olympic Security.
	And one thing throughout all of this, I have never heard anything as far as what security measures will be done As far as the Olympics.
	You said you work for security, right?
	Yes.
	I do, to a point.
	All we do, as far as my business, is secure the Olympics venues.
	Well, my guess would be, my friend, that the Olympics security will be as never before.
	It will probably be unbelievable, the amount of security there.
	See, that's what I don't understand.
	We are in the hub of Of Christianity, as far as Mormonism.
	Why would you think that would stop them?
	And I don't.
	And that's what really makes me nervous, because I haven't heard absolutely nothing as far as what will be done as far as security.
	Well, I imagine you'll be hearing about it real soon.
	Don't worry about it.
	There'll be so much security there, you won't know what to do.
	You'll be so busy if you're really in security.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, Art, it's a pleasure to talk to you.
	George from Queens, New York.
	Hey, George.
	How are you doing?
	Fine.
	I have two points.
	One, the underplay of the fact that these terrorists try to decapitate our government.
	They had intent upon taking out the President.
	Sure, I think the heroes that brought 93 down prevented a probable attack on the White House, I would imagine, if not Congress.
	Right.
	It's easy to forget, with all the tragedy that did occur, with all the people in the Twin Towers, that the terrorists actually were intent upon taking out the President.
	And second, that this has really galvanized us against probably the bigger problem than Bin Laden, that is the Great Equalizer, which you're going to be talking about tonight, these weapons of mass destruction.
	Well, I really want to know about them.
	I've heard so much sort of circular discussion about them in the media, CNN and everywhere else that I've been watching nearly 24 hours a day, that I want to know really what could be done.
	I want to know what we could expect, don't you?
	Absolutely.
	They could be the great...
	Compared to World War II, these weapons tend to be the great equalizer, where it takes very few people to actually pull them off.
	They tend to give a smaller society, like the terrorists, much more strength than they normally would have with conventional weapons.
	Well, they used to be called the poor man's nuclear bomb, right?
	That's correct.
	So it gives us an opportunity to take out these capabilities all around the world, if If Bush's sincere attempts to try to get out terrorism, rid the world of terrorism, so it is an opportunity for the U.S.
	to try to take out these weapons.
	Well, George, turn your radio off for me, if you would, please.
	That's really a very important thing to do at the beginning of these films.
	What do you think the likelihood is that we face some sort of biological or chemical attack?
	We will before this is over.
	Unfortunately, I think it's 100%.
	Do you own a gas mask?
	They're unavailable.
	They're unavailable?
	In other words, you've inquired?
	Yes.
	The ones that are actually suitable for anthrax are unavailable.
	I see.
	Wonderful news.
	Alright, George, thank you.
	I've got to scoot.
	Here's another one on the banned list.
	The alleged banned list.
	I'm Mark Bell.
	Imagine there's no heaven.
	As easy as you try.
	See that you try No help in the worst.
	No help in the worst.
	All of time shall come We'll bust down and down
	Caesars don't fear the reaper Nor do the wind, the sun or the rain
	We can be like they are So come on baby
	Don't fear the reaper Baby take my hand
	Don't fear the reaper We'll be able to fly
	Don't fear the reaper Baby I'm your man
	Wanna take a ride?
	Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	618-8255, east of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First-time callers may reach out at area code 775-727-1222 or call the wildcard line at
	775-727-1295.
	To talk with Art on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	Not being afraid won't do you any good.
	But knowing the score is a good idea.
	That's what we're going to do this hour with Craig O'Thompson to find out what the score is.
	Pulling no punches.
	We're going to try and find out what a guy with a crop duster could really do.
	Because right now, they're grounded.
	And or they can't get near cities.
	So our federal government obviously, you know, thinks something is going on.
	And there probably is.
	It's probably a good realization to come to.
	In a moment, we'll find out what it's all about.
	If you can't handle information like this, you might want to tune out.
	Because that's what we're going to talk about.
	Alright, here we go.
	I now have for you an expert on the subject of terrorism and nuclear biological and chemical warfare, NBCW if you will, and a member of the International Association of Counterterrorism and Security Professionals, author Craig O. Thompson, who researched terrorism for well over a decade.
	That's a long time to be looking into what these people do, and what we're going to try to do with Craig is to have him pull no punches and basically tell us what a guy could do with a crop duster.
	Craig, welcome to the program.
	Good to be with you, Art.
	You know, let me read of quick facts I got.
	This is like a million I've had, Craig.
	I'm a college student at the University of Florida.
	Love listening to your show on WSKY.
	Thought I'd ask your opinion regarding the news coming out of the terrorists intending to use crop planes for possible disbursement of biological weapons or chemical weapons.
	It is a really scary thought, but very plausible, and seems way too easy.
	It made me think of all your conversations dealing with chemtrails and such.
	I know you're a busy man.
	I don't expect a reply, but I definitely think it would be a great topic of discussion, and so we shall.
	When our federal government begins to ground crop dusters, or when they do get in the air, and won't let them anywhere near cities, they must have decided there is a real threat that one of them may be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons.
	Agreed?
	Oh, no question about it.
	Of course, they have good reason now to believe, now that they've investigated a little further.
	I'm a little concerned at how long it took for the information to get out, because I understand there were a number of these suicide hijacker type people, Mohammed Atta being one of them, who were checking out the entire aspect.
	You must have seen Larry King tonight.
	No, I didn't.
	They had a fellow on who was a crop duster, and he said that he, in fact, that was one of the people that had been to his business inquiring about getting a crop duster and getting a plane and flying a plane.
	Well, in fact, they'd inquired on many occasions, which again surprises and also disappoints me, Art, that Something more hadn't been done as a result of that.
	It's amazing how so much of this information comes out after the fact.
	We become so reactionary to everything and yet we have so much of this information in our hands or somebody does, but the problem is, as I see it, we've been so complacent over the years That we just sort of thought, well, that's another little bit of information to put in the hat.
	And, you know, if we need it at some point in the future, we'll pull it out.
	Well, Craig, we can imagine many things.
	You know, Tom Clancy imagines many things.
	But until they happen, it doesn't seem like we take them seriously.
	Well, we've been operating forever under what I call the intersection policy of the United States.
	And it goes right down into our county levels as well.
	You never put up a signal at an intersection or a train crossing until several people are killed.
	We never really created any true laws that still are quite weak and we need more, but we never really created any true laws until after Timothy McVeigh.
	Believe it or not, there was nothing created after the first bombing of the Trade Center.
	What could somebody with a crop duster do?
	Let's discuss two possibilities, chemical and biological.
	In the first instance, chemicals.
	What could somebody with a crop duster accomplish?
	Well, chemicals, let's define the difference.
	First of all, chemicals are limited in what they can do in terms of crippling a population.
	Certainly they can do tremendous damage depending on the type of chemical that's used.
	And first of all, let me qualify, I'm not a chemist so I won't speak to the specific types of chemicals necessarily.
	We know there's sarin gas out there that can do one hell of a job on a population and despite the fact that they put down The individuals involved with the Amish Enrico in Japan in 1995 when it was released in the subway train station.
	Yes, but didn't they do that, Craig, because they needed a confined area where the gas would remain in a confined area, enhancing its effect?
	Well, it certainly does.
	There's no question it enhances its effect.
	It didn't have quite the effect they were looking for, mainly because they didn't disperse
	it in a manner that would have obviously worked a little bit better than it did.
	It did a heck of a job, there's no question about it.
	But they were put down as not having the proper knowledge and ability to keep, for example,
	biotoxins alive.
	It's been established here most recently, and the information has come from Japan, that
	these people knew exactly what they were doing.
	They just didn't perpetrate it in a way that... It was more of a test.
	Okay, so sarin is gas.
	It's chemical.
	It's chemical.
	Biologically, there are other relationships to it, as I understand, that could possibly be used.
	And the key is to be able to keep biological toxins alive.
	You know, your difference is, again, with chemicals, If it were a chemical accident, let's just step away for a second from the crop duster picture and just say if there were a chemical accident, for example like we saw in Baltimore about a month and a half ago where you had tank cars in a tunnel that had heated up to about 4,000 degrees and if they had exploded would have covered a seven square mile area
	They figure, in terms of the dispersal, and literally killed thousands, and of course handicapped many more thousands for the rest of their life.
	That, if it had been a perpetrated act, of course, would have been what they call a weapon of mass destruction, as we learned in the airliner last week.
	Could you get enough of that in an airplane to be effective?
	Well, actually, a crop duster, for example, It can carry up to 500 gallons of any chemical.
	All you need in terms of a biological amount would be, in any sense, grams.
	100 grams of anthrax could kill hundreds of thousands of people if dispersed properly under the right conditions.
	And again, you have to take weather and wind and time of day because of the sun and how it reacts and how chemicals, for example, will either lay on the ground or rise with the air.
	So there's so many things that you need to take into consideration quite frankly chemicals other than being pretty nasty depending on what's dispersed Um, aren't as dangerous as the biological aspect would be.
	If they mixed biological with chemicals, and if those biological somehow could survive with the type of chemicals they're mixed with, you'd have one heck of a lethal cocktail.
	Alright.
	Anthrax, you said, uh, dispersed properly.
	500 gallons you would not need, I take it, right?
	No, absolutely not.
	Uh, would kill, you say, hundreds of thousands of people?
	It would if it were dispersed properly, because you only need minute particles to get into the respiratory system.
	This is not a disease that spreads like plague or smallpox.
	You have to inhale it.
	For it to be effective, but you know, it only takes about one to five days to incubate.
	You've got high fever, fatigue, vomiting, labored breathing, bleeding, lesions, and you know, I'll stop there.
	It's bad enough just to think about those symptoms.
	The problem is, if you go to the doctor with it, the doctor will probably send you home and say, well, you know, you've got an allergy, you probably have some form of the flu, it takes a lot of fluid to get some rest.
	Come and see me in about 10 days.
	Well, 10 days later, you won't be around.
	All right.
	OK.
	Let's think about anthrax a little bit.
	If there were an attack, I take it they would probably do it over a highly populated area.
	They would probably go for some densely populated city area, would you think?
	That's certainly where it's going to have its most effect.
	That isn't to discount the fact that it could happen anywhere else, but certainly it would have its biggest effect there.
	If you were in a building, Craig, Uh, when such an attack occurred, would you be protected from its effects if you did not go outside, or would it not matter?
	Would it somehow get inside and get you anyway?
	Well, mainly because you have, uh, you know, ventilation systems, HVACs and so forth, it is very possible it could spread throughout the HVACs, the air conditioning, heating systems, and so forth.
	Oh, brother.
	And, uh, so it'd be very difficult to control.
	That's why they tell you if they It's an attack and it happens to be away from your area or within some proximity of where you happen to be.
	The best thing to do is evacuate in place rather than going outside.
	However, turning off all systems regardless of the weather and basically duct taping everything you can.
	How long would anthrax be active, do you know?
	You know, I honestly can't answer that.
	Again, I'm not a bioscientist in any sense of the word, but I can say that if it's out there and dispersed And if it gets into your respiratory system in any way, it certainly would be a problem.
	If it rains, however, if there's wet weather, it has a tendency, as I understand it, to mitigate the problem.
	So, in other words, you might drop that in a drier climate, for effect?
	Well, you really don't want it to be stormy.
	How much chance is there, in your opinion, Craig, that the terrorists, this Al-Qaeda network and others, have anthrax?
	We know those individuals that are really involved in the intelligence end, and of course today as I've said, intelligence has become almost an oxymoron, but today those who are working in that particular area know that they are searching everywhere they can to obtain any type of biological or chemical weapon, as well as radiological.
	For example, what they can make dirty bombs with.
	And that would be your radiological waste from nuclear plants and other devices.
	But basically, the Russian mafia is working very hard to transmit as much as and make as much as they can from any of these items that they have.
	And there are tons of it in store in the old Soviet Union across many of the Transcaucasus states in labs that were a part of what they called So the answer is you think they've got them or not?
	uh... of the world by manufacturing these items as late as nineteen ninety
	two so the answer is you think they've got them or not uh... i personally believe they do
	uh... you might be interested in this Gas masks flying off store shelves.
	September 11th terrorist tragedies have spurred a survival gear buying spree across the country.
	And in South Florida, nervous residents have bought virtually every available gas mask, fearing that the next wave of attacks could be biological or chemical.
	Surprised?
	Not at all.
	As a matter of fact, I talked with a seller of gas masks today because I've had so many emails of people that are concerned that want to know where they can get them.
	and uh... i want to make sure certain that i was uh...
	talking to someone that i could send out of the as a supplier i don't endorse
	any of these people uh... certainly most of the but most of the fact that i found
	out in my emails are all and nonpartisan bipartisan non-profit
	organizations Would a gas mask protect one against anthrax?
	Yes, there are.
	If you have the right gas mask and the canister that you attach to it, they have what they call NBC canisters.
	They cost about $23.
	A good full-face mask is about $163, I think the range is.
	Obviously, don't quote me on that.
	But roughly a full face mask and a canister, an NBC, nuclear biological chemical, in other words, a canister that would fit on it for the mask itself would probably total altogether a little under $200 or somewhere thereabouts per mask.
	uh... and they are they're going off the shelf that then the question is that you know uh... are you able
	ordered for for just of the united states for people in a statement everybody in the
	world of thinking about this now okay and so it's back ordered okay correct uh...
	or or i'd right now
	our government is busy uh... thinking about
	ways to spur the economy uh... give us tax breaks eliminate this or that uh...
	tax levy They're thinking of ways to spur the economy and giving money back to us.
	But in Israel, they give their citizens gas masks.
	And I wonder if this should be under active consideration right now, or would that come after an attack?
	Well, no.
	In fact, we're way behind the eight ball on that one.
	You really get a nerve when we mention the refunds, the tax refunds, because I'll tell you, I did a speech in Washington, D.C.
	about a month and a half ago.
	It was covered by C-SPAN, and it talked about this very subject.
	The fact is that if we had taken those silly $300 and $600 tax refunds that they sent out and spent it on preparedness in our communities throughout the United States and literally returning that money to the communities I get again into the economy directly at every level we might have been a little bit better off of course the preparatory time from the tax refund to the point that where we are today obviously isn't all that long a period in terms of moving things through the various systems in here in the United States but certainly certainly we should do preparation for the medical community first because they're going to have to treat that and if we're looking at the lack of supply right now
	uh... or at least under supply uh... at this point we we really need to work on first responders are police Our nurses, our doctors, our firemen, anyone who's going to be a first responder on the scene, because as I said, if they show up on a scene and aren't able to handle it with not only the equipment, but with the suits that they need to wear in a biological event or a chemical event, they're either going to be our first responders and our first heroes or our first martyrs.
	Alright, what kind of notice would we have?
	In other words, if somebody flew over Atlanta with a crop duster and dumped a bunch of anthrax Would we, within 20 minutes or a half hour, be hearing bulletins everywhere that there's been an attack in Atlanta?
	Or what did you say the incubation period is?
	Well, the incubation period is anywhere from 24 hours to as much as 5 days, again, depending on how much and, of course, the type of strain.
	24 hours to 5 days, so in 30 minutes we might not hear a bulletin, huh?
	No, as a matter of fact, most biological, you know, if we stick to biological for this particular illustration, You're never going to know that it's happened for the most part.
	It's colorless, it's odorless, it doesn't explode.
	The perpetrator can use it, dispense it, and be out of the country long before anyone starts showing up in doctor's offices or medical centers.
	Are you telling me that in our major cities we don't have biological warning devices set up?
	Well, there is equipment available, and I can tell you that within hours of the attack on America in New York and Washington, D.C., there was a special team that came out of Scotia, New York, I believe it was, of about 22 individuals that were right on top of those sites using equipment to check the air, to check the You know, the entire vicinity to see if there were any possibility for biological agents.
	Well, that's nice, but that was after the attack.
	My question is, in the major cities across America, is there now some sort of mechanism to detect an attack, an attack, a biological attack?
	To my knowledge, nothing that would detect it in advance.
	Holy smokes!
	Not in advance.
	I didn't ask about in advance.
	But as this stuff settles to ground, is there any... Yes.
	Yes.
	I'm sorry.
	In answer to your question, yes.
	Oh, there is?
	You certainly can detect it.
	There is equipment.
	The problem is, it's not in every community.
	And it's not even in a lot of the big cities.
	Oh.
	Well, let's just say that it was.
	Let's be optimistic and say it was.
	And we began hearing about an attack on Atlanta.
	If I live 25 miles from Atlanta, should I be worried?
	50 miles?
	100 miles?
	Again, Art, it would depend on the amount of dispersal.
	Whether it's 100 grams or 5,000 grams, typically speaking.
	It would also depend on the direction of the wind.
	If the wind typically went from West to east, you might be in good shape.
	If the wind was coming over from the Sahara across the Atlantic Ocean into Florida, you have a different situation and it would push it on land.
	It's very hard to gauge.
	I wish I could give you a specific answer, but it's very difficult to gauge.
	The thing is that if there is a warning, you don't want to panic and run out and get in the car and try to drive away necessarily because it will still be wind-borne.
	Evacuation in place is usually what they consider the safest for the most part, especially if you're in your home and you can close it off.
	Duct tape is probably, if you invest in duct tape, a production corporation or manufacturer these days would probably see a rise in sales because evacuation in place under these circumstances Would require the use of a goodly amount of that for windows and doors and so forth.
	Lots of duct tape.
	Okay, I think I've got it.
	Hold it right there.
	We'll be right back.
	Craig O. Thompson is my guest.
	I'm Art Bell.
	I've been drifting on the sea of heartbreak, trying to get myself ashore for so long, for so long.
	Listening to the strangest stories Wondering where it all went wrong
	For so long For so long
	But hold on, hold on, hold on To what you've got
	The Strangest Stories of All Time The Strangest Stories of All Time
	The Strangest Stories of All Time The Strangest Stories of All Time
	The Strangest Stories of All Time Out on the street I was talking to a man
	He said, so much for this love of mine But I don't understand
	You should worry, I said, that ain't no crime Cause if you get it wrong, you should write next time
	you Wanna take a ride?
	Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	to the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	And to reach out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
	We are discussing with Craig O'Thompson what a guy in a crop duster could do, and it is Item of terror, to be sure.
	But I think that everybody should understand exactly what it is that as a nation we are really facing right now.
	Obviously, the government thinks it's a threat, since they've grounded planes.
	And I think that you should know, I certainly want to know, what it is we're looking at.
	So that's what we're talking about.
	Stay right there.
	Just before we go back to Craig, here's Earl, who's in Hawaii.
	He was a crop duster for 50 years.
	Earl, what can a crop duster do?
	Well Art, one thing when you say that the FAA, which has all good intentions of grounding crop dusters, that is really impossible because where I was raised in Arkansas and in Arkansas alone and in states all over the country there are thousands And thousands of strips of crop dusters, which only a lot of farmers know where they are.
	Yeah, basically dirt strips.
	They're little bitty dirt strips that can be a thousand feet long.
	And if you take aircraft such as a bi-wing Stearman, a Grumman Hagcat, a Piper Pawnee, those aircraft are designed and they are so extremely maneuverable.
	I used to fly under power lines and around trees.
	Because you have to drop down in the strips.
	You can fly those type of aircraft so low and so close to the ground that they would never, ever be seen by any radar whatsoever.
	That's a good point.
	And you can fly in between buildings.
	You could come down and go into a city.
	Well, for example, the terrorist anyway is not going to abide by a grounding, so you only know if you catch him on radar, which you say you won't.
	You'd only know that he's not authorized to be up there.
	You wouldn't stop him.
	Well, you wouldn't be able to stop him.
	You wouldn't be able to stop a crop duster, because you wouldn't even know you're there, and they would be so close to the ground and would blend into the scenery.
	And be able to go down streets, around trees, and be able to drop a few hundred pounds of whatever is in the hopper in any type of a specific place.
	How many gallons of something could you carry?
	Well, it depends upon the aircraft, but you could carry a few hundred pounds of something.
	And if you take a certain mixture, as the gentleman was saying earlier, depending on what it is, You can even drop down, which crop dusters have to do, they may have to drop their load of dust in a swath just a few hundred feet wide and a few hundred feet long.
	So it's possible if someone was going to pick out a certain target, it can be dropped and it scares the hell out of me, Art, because When I heard your topic, it's something that they can't ground the crop dusters.
	Sure they can say, well all crop dusters are grounded, but you don't even know where they are.
	I guess, thank you, that they're really presuming.
	That all the legitimate crop dusters are going to certainly abide by an FAA declaration and ground themselves.
	But as he points out, Craig, somebody could take off from dirt field just about anywhere, and he says you wouldn't get them.
	Well, there's no question about it.
	They could take off from anywhere, and it would be very difficult to get them.
	They can carry up to about 500 gallons of liquid, if you were to do liquid dispersal.
	They can avoid radar.
	He hit all the great points.
	There's no question about it.
	I also know that these people were trained, they went to health clubs, they could overpower
	someone so you know pulling up to someone's home if they knew where one of these happened
	to be and if they had the right air training that certainly we know some of them have had,
	it certainly is well within the range of possibility.
	And they obviously wouldn't be worried about the outcome of the mission because they're going to assume they're going to die.
	They did that in New York and they would do that in this case as well.
	The National Agricultural Aviation Association actually has issued a bulletin and it's kind of a forwarding of a message from the FBI that all members should continue to be vigilant obviously of any suspicious activity, any training in or acquisition of dangerous chemicals or airborne application.
	It's interesting, all the questions that these numerous, three or four gentlemen, I use that term very loosely, excuse me, that showed up to one of the crop dusters, they continue to show up time after time.
	It almost led me to believe that these guys were distracting him as they were perhaps doing other things.
	It concerns me that they could have access to chemicals that are on the ground, certainly, stored in barns or in 55-gallon drums.
	You know, so I think obviously anyone connected with crop dusting or the dispersal of chemicals of any type needs to be very aware and keep a very close check on their stock.
	How probable is it, Craig, that we've only seen a small number of the terrorists that are stationed here in America for whatever campaign they have in mind?
	Highly probable.
	So there's a lot more on the ground?
	What the suspicion is at this point in time, because we know that, well, first of all, all we have to do is look at our borders and the condition of our borders, at least up until September 11th.
	Thousands of people crossed on a daily basis, north, south, and from both coasts, anytime they could.
	It's a numbers game with the terrorists.
	In my novel, Omar, which is about terrorism, I have a character who is a terrorist who says, we're going to come at you like tsunamis, and that's exactly what they do.
	With regard to anthrax, what about animals?
	We know, I guess, what it would do to people.
	Would it do the same thing to animals?
	To my knowledge, it would.
	I'm not particularly conversant in that particular area, but yes, animals I'm sure would be affected as much as adults would.
	Is it possible that terrorists have laboratories hither and yon around the world where they're able to develop their own bio-weapons?
	Well, we know the Aum Shinrikyo did in Japan, and yes, they're certainly doing everything they can to acquire the capability.
	Frankly, there are some very, very simple ways of doing it, and I hesitate to even mention them, quite frankly, because they are In the common usage.
	No, no, I don't want this to be a how to.
	No, exactly.
	I want this to be a what if.
	The point is, Art, they know how to use these items to manufacture them in, let's say, even a home.
	Even a home.
	I know that you don't have a crystal ball.
	Certainly there are many people saying that if we respond, which we will do shortly, one way or the other, There will be an attack after our response.
	Do you imagine there might be one even before that?
	In other words, are we just counting the hours to when there could be another one?
	Well, if I had that kind of crystal ball, we would have probably avoided what we had on September 11th.
	There is absolutely no way for us, other than through the use of absolutely good intelligence, in other words, espionage, which we have not been doing very well over the last 10 years or so, uh... at the expense of uh... of good get down in the
	trenches get your fingernails dirty espionage
	uh... we've been really uh... spending all of our money on high-tech stuff in
	the sky and on the ground uh... which is useful at times but certainly uh...
	i think we grew a little uh... too much in love with that stuff after the gulf
	war all right well
	i think you might want to uh...
	take me where you want to go In other words, I've got a million questions, but there's obviously a lot of questions that I haven't thought of.
	For example, now here I am stuck.
	For example, This Al-Qaeda network, how much do we know about the Al-Qaeda network?
	We've known about them for years.
	We actually helped create the Al-Qaeda.
	It was established by Osama Bin Laden in the late 1980s, basically to bring together Arabs who fought in Afghanistan against the Soviet invasion.
	We, through the CIA, helped along with his millions that he had through his family.
	He comes from literally a billionaire type family that's in construction in Saudi Arabia
	and throughout a lot of the Mideast.
	We help finance, recruit, transport, train Sunni Islamic extremists.
	These are about as extreme as you can get, the ones that are pretty much involved in
	the suicidal missions.
	They're in about as many as 55 countries, some say 22.
	I suspect it's more like 55 throughout the world in terms of their active resistance.
	But their current goal is really to establish what they call a pan-Islamic caliphate throughout
	the world by working with allied Islamic extremist groups to overthrow regimes that it deems
	And that's pretty much everyone else.
	How vulnerable?
	I know what I wanted to talk about.
	Our water supply.
	I've seen these horrible TV investigative reports.
	That suggests that our water supplies are incredibly vulnerable and a few vials of this or that in a water supply and you have poisoned thousands or more.
	And those reports are very correct.
	They are.
	Again, there are scenarios that we can dwell on.
	The question is, how do we protect them?
	And it becomes everything we talk about tonight, if there's a solution, almost 99% of the cases are just going to be budgetary.
	And I've been saying for quite some time now that we need to absolutely, at a minimum, triple our budget.
	And I'm concerned, I'm pleased that they came up with a $40 billion solution last week in Congress.
	They handed over 20 of it to the President for his discretion, the use under his discretion.
	We know the other 20 is going to New York and Washington and that's admirable and fine and should happen.
	The question becomes how much of that $20 billion is going to be used for anything other than military right
	now in terms of our reactionary process
	uh... with the war or or uh... incidents or whatever we want to call these
	actions and and of course that we know some of the will go
	significantly hopefully to border
	patrol and hopefully increasing the technology and which i think
	we need both because the borders are so large
	we need to uh... as i've said before be able to catch a raccoon coming across
	the border at least no electronically that something's happening to be able to get
	to that area immediately also have twenty two hundred mile border though
	absolutely and it and and the question is other ones
	well the uh... the my statement would be there's no way we're gonna get to get
	them all and that's why these terrorists know it you know if it's a
	It's almost as if they've taken a sales training course.
	They know it's a numbers game.
	The more you knock on the door, eventually you're going to get the sale, and that's where they're coming from.
	We discussed one agent.
	Biologically, what else might be out there that is new on the scene?
	Well, there's about 20 different new biological toxins that have been discovered in the last 20 years.
	On the average, about one a year.
	The ones that we hear about the most are Ebola, of course, much of that coming from parts of Africa.
	Biological agents, of course, can be gene spliced, and they did in the Soviet Union.
	They've actually mixed lethal cocktails, and as I alluded to earlier, there are tons of this mixed together in the form of anthrax, smallpox, and plague in biologically spliced, gene spliced, I should say, chemicals or biotoxins that are sitting there waiting And there are vials that are disappearing out of those labs.
	Well, you know, I was going to ask this.
	You remember when the attacks of Ebola came along several times, wiped out towns hither and yon.
	They would isolate them with the military and so forth and so on.
	It would seem to me that a terrorist would rush to Africa, if possible, to get a sample of Ebola.
	Well, perhaps.
	Anything's possible.
	If they didn't know what they were doing, they'd probably end up one of the victims.
	It's a very, very highly toxic bioweapon, if you want to call it that.
	Rather than engineering something from the ground up to walk away with a sample of Ebola and then go to the lab and do a bit of splicing and perhaps enhance its capabilities for staying alive longer or Absolutely no question, and I wouldn't put it past the old Soviet Union to be prepared to have done that.
	We know that they have worked with and have in stores Ebola in some of their labs around the Trans-Caucasus states.
	No question about it.
	Alright, well, you know, this is pretty scary stuff because I don't know what the average citizen should do or can do about it.
	Well, you know, you bring up a very good point, and it's something we should have been doing a long time ago, but it's never too late.
	First of all, we need to get much more involved in the political process, letting everyone know at every level that we expect our public health system to be upgraded tremendously.
	Art, every mock disaster that's been held in this country in the last two years has basically failed.
	Now, I say that with qualification.
	Every time we hold a mock disaster, we learn many new things.
	The biggest problem with most of the failures has been the lack of coordination and agreement between government agencies, and that's from the federal to the state, right on down to county agencies.
	No one has really known in the past who's in charge.
	I've cited in the past Operation Top Off, which was government mandated by the Congress about Two years ago, as far as when it first was mandated, it took about a year to put together the program.
	A year ago, last May, in Denver, they did a mock disaster with the plague.
	They did one in D.C.
	around the same time with a radiological event and a chemical event in Portsmouth, New Hampshire.
	Looking at the one which was bio, because it is the one really that has gained the most attention by virtue of Just how dangerous biological is versus even radiological and chemical in its ability to spread.
	This event, this exercise, and I want to emphasize it was an exercise, so anybody tuning in doesn't think we're talking about the end of the world here.
	At this point, they had an exercise that was to have lasted seven days.
	They actually gave up after four days.
	Gave up?
	They gave up.
	They ran into so many problems.
	And carrying it out.
	And it started with the fact that they forgot the number one issue, particularly in the medical plant, let's say, and the medical centers and those involved in that particular part of recovery and assistance.
	They actually spent a lot of their time in the beginning comforting and helping those who, in this exercise, had been infected.
	Already dead?
	Well, they would be very shortly or within a period of time.
	The point is that in a medical emergency, you have to have in this type a triage, and you bring up a very good point, reverse triage.
	In other words, those that you would typically help if it were a fire, an explosion, an attack of some other point, you look at the various levels and then decide who goes where and how they're tagged.
	reverse triage you have to let everyone infected essentially
	and for themselves initially until you have everything else under control
	and that means protecting the greater number and the greater good care about
	that would mean that your first job is containment not uh... care of the sick absolutely
	and uh... and these are some of the issues of course that well
	but i don't know that would go against uh...
	every uh... doctors both every health givers uh...
	oath, I mean they all are sworn to try and do the most good they can and help
	Absolutely.
	And so I understand they would probably fail, wouldn't they?
	In this case, they did because they forgot that one situation under a biological attack.
	They concentrated on those who were sick rather than Helping those that were not.
	The problem is they still couldn't coordinate bringing in vaccines from the CDC, which by the way there really isn't enough that's new enough and fresh enough to be able to use.
	It's quite old.
	It's turning red as I understand it.
	There's some rumors that are coming out now that there's sort of a red coloration and we think it's from the nipples that cover the vials.
	But there's some question as to Imagine they're looking at that real hard right now, aren't they?
	Oh, well, as a matter of fact, our Congress just passed a bill that's going to begin building our stockpiles.
	I think it's a $5 billion expenditure, but it's over a five-year period, and it will probably only be enough, at least the way it's set right now, for smallpox, and it's just smallpox we're talking about here, to be able to To cover mostly the military and medical personnel.
	Now an infectious disease would be a whole different type of thing, wouldn't it?
	If it could be passed from one person to another?
	Oh, absolutely.
	By sneezing or whatever?
	If you had, for example, if it was the plague or smallpox, essentially you're looking at agents that are dispersed by sneezing or coughing or being in close proximity to other individuals.
	It's dispersed through the air by touching Uh, in history we've had, uh, uh, you mentioned, you know, water supplies poison and things like that.
	They've done that, you know?
	Then your only defense would be isolation then, wouldn't it?
	Well, it really is.
	Individuals, stay home, uh, don't let anybody come near you, right?
	Absolutely.
	Hold on, Craig, we're at the top of the hour, so hold on just a sec.
	We'll be right back.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm Mark Bell.
	There's something happening here.
	But what it is ain't exactly clear.
	There's a man with a gun over there.
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	I think it's time we stop children.
	What's that sound?
	Everybody look what's going down.
	This battle line's been drawn And nobody's gonna see you
	You're in the rain Don't bother asking for an explanation
	Don't bother asking for an explanation She'll just tell you that she came here in the year of the
	Should've told you that you came In the year of the cat
	cat She doesn't give you time for questions
	She doesn't give you time for questions As she looks at your loving eyes
	As she looks at your love and hers And you follow to your sense of which direction
	Completely disappears On the blue tile walls, near the market stalls
	There's a hidden door she leads you to These days, she says, I feel my life
	Just like a river running through The air of the canyon.
	Wanna take a ride?
	Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
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	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
	My guest is Craig O. Thompson.
	We're talking about nuclear, biological, and chemical warfare.
	And my guest, by the way, has a book.
	I don't know whether you've seen it.
	It's about terrorism, and it's called Omar.
	And I suspect you can get it on Amazon.com and all the usual suspects.
	At any rate, you certainly might want to consider it.
	it's speaking of fiction i've got a piece of it for you and we'll find out how much
	it really is fiction in a moment stay right there
	one you
	One of my fast-blast people contributed the following, and it's in the form of a link, by the way, on our website right now, under the links section.
	It's entitled, Diary of an Anthrax Attack.
	Working out of a truck, a terrorist group unleashes a cloud of anthrax over a football stadium in the town of Northeast, mythical town of Northeast, mind you.
	It will be days, and they will be miles away before public health officials know what happened.
	While a fictional scenario, The Tale of Northeast illustrates just how real the threat of bioterrorism is, said Dr. Thomas Inglesby of the Johns Hopkins Center for Civilian Biodefense Studies in Baltimore.
	At a meeting here Tuesday, he presented anthrax, a possible case history to the audience, November 1st.
	Bioterrorists release anthrax over the stadium.
	November 3rd.
	Northeast experiences a citywide surge in what appears to be flu-like symptoms.
	With about 400 residents seeking out medical care.
	Because influenza has been on the rise over the past two weeks, doctors do not suspect anything out of the ordinary.
	Patients are sent home with a prescription to get plenty of bed rest and drink plenty of fluids, November 4th.
	Some young, otherwise healthy patients are sicker than one would expect from flu.
	Leading physicians to contact local health officials.
	Laboratory tests prove the patients have been infected with the class of bacteria known as Bacillus.
	But nobody does further testing to determine what type of bacillus.
	Note, some bacilli are relatively harmless.
	The first deaths are reported, prompting urgent calls to state and local health officials.
	They, in turn, contact the federal centers for disease control and prevention in Atlanta.
	By the end of the day, 1,200 are ill, 80 have died.
	November 5th.
	Health officials begin considering the possibility of a highly virulent microbe, such as the deadly Hong Kong flu.
	As the number of cases double, isolation of patients is recommended to prevent further spread.
	During a press conference, the mayor appeals for calm, but he looks visibly surprised when asked about the possibility of a viral bioterrorist attack.
	Patients begin experiencing even more severe symptoms, including high fever, Low blood pressure and septic shock.
	There still is no diagnosis.
	Physicians are told to wear protective gear, but it turns out there are only 24 hoods in the entire town of Northeast.
	The football stadium now has been identified as a center of epidemic, with many of the ill reporting they had attended the game on November 1st.
	By the end of the day, CDC has hit upon the diagnosis, anthrax, one of the deadliest microbes known to man.
	The mayor is outraged when she finds out there had been an anthrax threat on her town the week before, but the FBI had failed to inform her.
	She is told a limited number of vaccine doses exist, but no one knows if and when they will be made available to her town.
	As for treatment, antibiotics are recommended, But they need to be given early in the course of infection.
	Everybody who attended the November 1st football game is urged to take antibiotics.
	However, there are not enough drugs to go around, so several police stations are set up as distribution centers.
	By the end of the day, 2,700 are ill.
	300 have now died.
	November 6th, by early morning, no antibiotics are left.
	50,000 people have reportedly received doses, but no one really knows whom.
	Gyms and shelters are open for the ill.
	The media reports antibiotics were distributed unfairly, prompting violence, and on and on and on.
	By the end of that day, 3,200 are ill, 900 have died, and on and on it goes.
	And the death toll continues to increase.
	Now that is a small attack on a small town.
	Is that so far from... Is that pretty close to what could happen, or is it pure fiction?
	I have to tell you Art that John Hopkins Center for Civilian Biodefense Studies is one of the premier organizations in this country who has been studying this now for quite some time and making these predictions mostly to deaf ears.
	Yes, it is a very true scenario.
	You know, if you saw Dustin Hoffman in Outbreak a few years ago, where the military comes in and literally cordons off the town, shoots anyone that attempts to leave the area that's under quarantine, you know, these are the things that are actually scenarios that have been discussed, not only in the areas of the NIH and in government levels, but the American Bar Association's annual meeting a couple of months ago Actually, it hasn't been quite that long.
	They had a panel discussion and a mock disaster, and from what I understand, the conclusion was that in any terrorist attack that threatens the public health and has the possibility of creating a disaster of epidemic or, in most cases, pandemic proportions, the consensus was that any force assigned to protect the good of all will have the power to do whatever is necessary, and they are going to ask questions afterwards.
	Oh, I seem to recall that in the movie you mentioned, toward the end, uh... it was considered that they would use a nuclear
	weapon on that town well and that was a military solution as you recall and and
	of course uh... the heroes uh... overpowered that particular
	uh... part in the end and and uh... everything worked out all right but the
	problem is uh... you know that the movie uh... well there's an individual at the john hopkins center
	by the way her name is doctor tara tools
	She's connected at very high levels with a lot of the tests.
	She was involved in Operation Top Off, which was the one where they did the plague, and the other two cities, D.C., with the radiological and so forth.
	She's actually quoted as having said, as a result of the mock disasters, under these circumstances, many hospital staff faced with caring for people with a lethal, potentially contagious disease, would flee.
	A lot of staff are going to want to go home and take care of their families.
	Nurses, in particular, tend to be single mothers.
	They're going to need to look after their kids.
	Absolutely.
	And remember, the hospital takes a lot more than doctors and nurses to run, and they may be reluctant to put their lives on the line where contagious diseases break out.
	For the very point you just mentioned in what you read, and that is, they are not equipped with the masks, with the bio suits, and so forth.
	At the public health level, within our various public health systems and medical centers, And this is where we need to absolutely take this new cabinet-level position that's been created with the governor of Pennsylvania and make certain that money that is budgeted gets down to the community levels and gets past the beltline bandits.
	Then, I guarantee you, with that $20 billion that was just allocated, they're going to pounce on that like a lion on fresh meat.
	The end of this story says the cost of treating everyone in this mythical town with a course of antibiotics would have been less than $100 per victim, the cost of having enough vaccine less than one Well, as a matter of fact, I've been in conversation recently with an individual that says that they can now freeze-dry these vaccines, make them last much longer than the way they're currently stored in liquid form, and there are machines that are available in the pharmaceutical industry that literally can be placed and sent within an hour or two to any city in the United States if they were strategically placed in centers throughout the U.S.
	And literally be able to spend hundreds of thousands of them over a 24-hour period, if done appropriately.
	But you know, you have a situation here where as a result of these mock disasters, I mean, people think, my God, what I'm hearing makes me want to move to the mountains, kind of dig a hole and burrow myself in and hide from everything.
	I'm just going to get out of the big city.
	But I can tell you, I talk with an individual and I think this sets up the scene.
	Rather well for what could happen with a biological event, and yet it wasn't, and that's when Mount St.
	Helens erupted.
	Yes.
	I talked with an individual who was stuck in his town for 10 days.
	There was so much ash, you couldn't get trucks in or out, food in or out, water in or out, and other supplies.
	And this would be the kind of situation you would have in a quarantine.
	Most, if not all, transportation of food, clothing, medical supplies, and other goods, they would be severely restricted at best, halted at worst.
	If you attempted to leave the court in a restricted area, you could be confined by the police, the National Guard, or the military, at best.
	Or shot, at worst.
	Or shot.
	All communication systems would be severely affected if not cut back or controlled, again, at best.
	There may be no one available to keep it operating because those who are still healthy will probably remain sheltered at home with their families, at worst.
	You get into fuel supplies, get into water supplies, and all these things, whether they become contaminated or not, again, the supply level at anywhere in the mountain or any place that you think you might want to move could be affected if the attack happened in an area where you might want to go.
	Well, before the dawn of the millennium, just before it, people were stocking up on food and various emergency things so they could stick it out if they had to, depending on what they thought might occur.
	When the New Year was rung in well, the FBI, in this case, did a wonderful job, stopped some terrorists, stopped some problems we might have had at the New Year, had control, it seems like, of everything, and we didn't have a problem, and then everybody scoffed and said, well, it was a big nothing.
	Seems to me those people who prepared for Y2K might now be more comfortable than others, would you say?
	Well, and you know, for more reasons than just terrorism.
	I mean, we have natural disasters in this country, with which we've witnessed numerous natural disasters over the last few years.
	that have taken their toll and any preparation that you do is good. It's certainly going to be good. In fact,
	I have, if anybody wants to email me at brightomarataol.com Wait a minute, that was way too fast. What was the address
	please?
	Bright, B-R-I-G-H-T, as in bright light, but brightomar, O-M-A-R at A-O-L dot com and I'll be happy to email some wonderful
	websites that tell you exactly how to put together disaster supplies kits
	and a disaster plan for your family, which again can be used
	for tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, anything.
	It doesn't have to be a terrorist attack.
	It's a question of being prepared.
	And the American Red Cross has stated quite emphatically that those who are prepared will survive much more readily than those who are not.
	It's an obvious solution.
	And there might be, particularly with biologicals, a situation in which your only defense would be to be isolated and to stay isolated.
	To not let anybody in or out or have anything to do with anybody.
	And the only way you can do that is if you're prepared.
	Exactly.
	And the longer you're prepared for, and by the way, people that stock up food and water and so forth, you have to continue to use that.
	You don't just let it sit out in the garage or in a storage space.
	Uh, where it becomes old like the vaccines at the CDC.
	You literally have to reuse and restock on a, you know, three month to six month basis.
	Some things might last if they can for a year, but you should be using them and then restocking them.
	Is it, uh, with regard to chemical or biological weapons, do you think it's only a matter of when and not if?
	Well, as a matter of fact, The thing that really shocked me into the realization we had some serious problems here, and nobody was talking about it, Art, really hit me about five years ago.
	As you mentioned, the top of the program, I've been researching it for, well now, almost 11 years, and the more I researched, the scarier it got.
	The scarier it got, I kept asking the question, why aren't we talking about this?
	And I've been accused, obviously, in the past of creating the kind of Of at least dispensing the type of information that creates paranoia and fear, and my position is that when you have knowledge, you can then prepare in a way that mitigates the fear and the paranoia.
	Look, for most people, this was really a science fiction like scenario.
	Until the government began grounding crop dusters.
	And then all of a sudden, da-da!
	It's drilled through.
	Hey, they really believe this might happen.
	Obviously.
	So, you know, for a lot of people, it's not so much science fiction anymore.
	Well, I have a communique from the U.S.
	Department of State, Washington, D.C., that I pulled off the Internet as late as June 26th this year.
	And the first paragraph tells why we're where we are today.
	It says the Department of State The Department of State has no information to indicate that there is a likelihood of use of chemical or biological agent release in the immediate future.
	The Department believes the risk of the use of chemical biological warfare, known as CBW, is remote, although it cannot be excluded.
	Now that's, of course, government double-talk.
	Yes.
	There are, of course, no guarantees which follow that.
	Well, how do you think they would have written about the plausibility of two airliners taking down the World Trade Center Twin Towers?
	Probably would have been even more remote than that, I would imagine.
	No one in their right mind, I think, ever dreamed, ever dreamed at any level that an airliner would be turned into a weapon of mass destruction with people on board to boot.
	And that certainly caught everyone by surprise, the fact that it came out of the air like it did.
	All of us who saw the first plane fly into the first tower obviously thought it was an accident.
	It didn't take but two seconds to know exactly what was going on when that second plane hit.
	And we've known about these threats for years.
	The government has known about it.
	They did talk about it.
	I think everybody was kind of hoping, well I know everybody was hoping for a 10-year window, and when President Clinton first started talking about this two years ago in 1999, they talked about a 10-year window.
	I think it gave us too large of a comfort zone, quite frankly, and that's why our government has been able to play the politics of the tax refunds and all the other fun things that buy votes, as opposed to saving lives.
	I've been wondering about this for quite a while, Craig, and maybe you can answer it.
	In most every major terrorist attack, there's been a group that claims credit.
	In other words, they do this awful thing to achieve something, which perhaps would be a change in U.S.
	policy, the stopping of aid to Israel, you could imagine, or other demands they might make, getting prisoners released, or who knows what.
	They would make some sort of demands to try and change what we're doing.
	There's been no such claim with these terrorists?
	Well, actually there has.
	Oh?
	Well, when you think about it, Osama Bin Laden has been making his pronouncements for years, and we've known it.
	He's on the Internet.
	I mean, this is a very sophisticated program that he has.
	He has streaming video where he makes his pronouncements over the Internet.
	He's able to use, from what we understand, steganography, which is a process of encoding pictures that you can send over the Internet to transmit messages.
	This is the kind of stuff that you do see in movies that really does exist, and he has the money to acquire it.
	Well, we haven't been hearing about it.
	Well, again, they've kind of stopped at the border, so to speak, when it comes to the information hotline.
	There have been warnings, and you asked the question, you know, is it only a question of when?
	Well, I have been making that statement, as many others have, for quite some time, and we're talking years here, in the case of other experts, Who have suspected this, but were called fools by people who were actually written in op-ed pieces in the New York Times, as an example.
	And it hasn't been all that long.
	But the question was no longer... What was the question?
	It was when, and that when came on Tuesday, September 11th.
	Yes, but Craig, what are their demands, in essence?
	What do they want?
	Well, you're dealing with individuals that have obviously a great deal of hate.
	There's no question about that.
	Bin Laden is a man without a home.
	He's a guest in Afghanistan.
	His passport has been pulled by his own country, Saudi Arabia, because he was extremely upset and angry.
	No, wait a minute.
	They say they don't know where he is.
	Well, obviously he's still within the country.
	They've got a passport.
	The good part might be that our assets have already pulled him into a cave, and we've got him there under lock and key, but I doubt that's the case at this point.
	Here's a man who grows stronger, Art, with retaliation.
	He has a very strong appeal among young people that really grows stronger with every success he had, and certainly two weeks ago was a major success for him.
	Okay, well, what's his motivation, Craig?
	What does he want?
	This is not an easy question to answer, mainly because this comes from a man who was trained by the U.S.
	military and CIA, funded by them, and then basically, as he feels it, As he has expressed it, he was basically dropped by those who supported him, meaning, of course, the United States.
	But when we went into Saudi Arabia with our military bases and attempted to use them to protect Israel and all of the things that our political policies stand for, that's pretty much what turned him into an animal.
	All right.
	Hold it right there.
	Kind of like a spurned woman scenario, huh?
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	we'll be right back music playing
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	Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
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	You know, it seems like as a nation we're having to grow up too fast. We should have
	more time. But all of a sudden it's getting really nasty out there, and biological and
	chemical warfare certainly would be at the very center of all that.
	I'm Art Bell, my guest is Frago Thompson, and he'll be right back.
	By the way, just as a side note, the sun has spit out a very powerful X6 class event, a gigantic solar flare which is headed directly for Earth and I'm seeing all kinds of interesting notes here.
	The proton event ongoing is contaminating the equipment that measures solar wind density, speed, temperature.
	Values reported by SEC according to the NOAA site are incorrect.
	Contamination began 24 September 1602 UTC.
	Expected to continue into the 25th.
	So we've had a big, big, big solar event out there and this time apparently it's headed right at us.
	We are discussing Nuclear, biological, and chemical warfare.
	And Craig, here's another one for you, off track a little bit, but a question.
	If one of those airplanes, instead of crashing into the World Trade Center, had crashed into a nuclear containment building, what would have probably occurred?
	Well, depending on the reinforcement of what they call hardened reinforcement of those particular areas and how it hit and where it hit, would depend on the amount of Radioactivity that we'd be exposed to, but certainly I think it would be a very disastrous event.
	Because of the fact that we are an open, free nation, with Bill of Rights, Constitution, all of that, and that is what we cherish, and that is what we're going to go fight for, according to our President, and almost anybody you would talk to.
	The very thing that these, instead of claiming credit for these attacks, perhaps their only intent was to destroy what we have, I.e., our freedoms.
	And as we discuss ways to prevent all of this, which seem impossible, short of having a police state, maybe that's their intent, to turn us into what we don't want to be.
	Well, you asked just before the break there what bin Laden really wants.
	That's right.
	Well, in reality, he wants total destruction of the United States through his, what he calls his self-proclaimed jihad, or holy war against our country and any of our allies.
	This is so he can establish his pan-Islamic caliphate that would expel all Westerners from non-Muslim countries.
	But I want to clarify something here.
	This is not the Islam of the world.
	This is the Talibanic, totally corrupt interpretation of the Koran and the Islam that is not followed by 99% of the good Islamic people out there.
	good islamic people out there right in in nineteen ninety eight february
	nineteen ninety eight osama bin laden said that it was the duty of all muslims to
	kill us citizens, civilian or military, and their allies anywhere.
	He reiterated that several times.
	So they just want us dead, then?
	Well, there's no question about it.
	He wants to create, again, that caliphate that can rule the world, so to speak.
	I mean, this man obviously has some serious problems, but he's also a very astute and, I hate to admit it, intelligent businessman, obviously misdirected.
	As we would see it from our perspective.
	But here's a man that is very, very angry.
	The anger has taken over.
	And, of course, he has used a country that is basically starving throughout most of the country.
	They have relied on the goodness of the heart of Americans and other countries to bring in food and other supplies.
	And now, of course, they're commandeering that as they close down the country so that they can use it for their soldiers or Anyone that may be there to fight back.
	It's a very shadowy organization that again is in an awful lot of countries and what we have to do to contain this organization and ultimately take it down is not going to happen overnight.
	I guarantee you it's going to be a very long protracted, excuse me I'm getting a little cotton mouth here, is protracted in terms of the length of time it will take To mitigate everything that we are facing.
	Greg, I know that on all the Sunday shows, all the administration officials who were on refused to rule out the possibility of nuclear weapons.
	It wouldn't seem likely in response to what happened to us, because we don't have a good target for a nuclear weapon, but nevertheless they're not ruling it out.
	If we were attacked with biological or chemical weapons, What do you think our position would likely be with reference to the use of nuclear weapons?
	I can tell you that it has been predicted under some of the mock disasters that have been done in this country that if there were a major biological attack it could kill upwards of 8 million people not only in this country but spread worldwide pandemically and could literally be worse than a nuclear attack again because it would continue to spread versus a nuclear attack that like chemical would be contained to an area For the most part, with the exception of anything carried on the winds, obviously.
	Well, my question was with respect to a retaliation.
	Retaliation, I would suspect, would have to be, in this case, equal to the attack.
	And if it were nuclear, it certainly would have to be well-placed.
	Again, because you're dealing with such a shadowy organization, who do you take out?
	And certainly the President has been very direct in terms of of uh... asking uh... countries to totally abandon uh...
	anyone that they have trained
	uh... harvard or in any way uh... assisted
	uh... or they will face the possibility of uh...
	so to speak all of the above uh... weapons of mass destruction that we
	might be able to place in in their country well doesn't this make uh...
	you know the the old days of uh...
	of soviet u s face-off with mutual assured destruction seem like the good old days?
	Oh boy, does it ever.
	And you know, you bring up a very good point.
	In the past, we've operated, let's say for the last 50 years specifically, and when we talk about strategic nuclear conventional weaponry, This is known as symmetric warfare, but when you look back at history, most of history, tribes, ethnic groups, religious groups use what we call asymmetric weaponry, asymmetric forms of fighting.
	That is low intensity, but as we saw two weeks ago, leading to high intensity results, type of battles.
	The terrorists know that they're in no way capable of fighting, let's call it our military might as we so smugly use quite often, and so what they do is asymmetrically find the cracks in our seams and the chinks in the armor and go around our military by finding those weaknesses.
	As you can see, they know how to bring down not only buildings, but take thousands of people out at the same time.
	So, they're weapons of choice, and it tends to be with Osama Bin Laden that he likes to choose different weapons of choice to kind of keep everybody on edge.
	After all, a terrorist wants to do just that, and that is to create terror and fear and to intimidate, and it's up to us, obviously, To stand up against that and let them know that that will not happen.
	Craig, what level of assurance do we have now that it was, in fact, for sure, Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda?
	Well, I don't have access to the intelligence, obviously, that our government has, so I wouldn't be able to comment on that, Art, mainly because everyone's guess is as good as anyone else's.
	However, the type of events that occurred The pronouncements by Osama Bin Laden, and quite frankly what I consider to be his extraordinary use of misdirection, basically point to that individual and to the Taliban and those Sunni extremists that are involved in the suicidal missions.
	As early or as late as about a week before the attack, you might recall that there were issuances from Bin Laden's organization The Al-Qaeda that there would be major attacks on Japanese, excuse me, American facilities in Japan and South Korea.
	That's right.
	Not only on facilities, the military bases and what have you, but anyone that served the military in those areas and right on down to restaurants and bars.
	Obviously, it was a very intentional case of misdirection and he certainly used that before.
	All right.
	A lot of people would like to speak with you, so I'm going to turn you over to some of the audience now.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Craig O. Thompson.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	This is really interesting.
	It's really bizarre that you would practically answer my question.
	I live in Goldsboro, Pennsylvania, about a thousand yards from Three Mile Island.
	Judging from what happened last time, We had problems here, how we in this area weren't informed practically of anything until it was too late.
	My query to you is, how realistic is a problem from Three Mile Island?
	We're being told that Three Mile Island was designed to withstand the impact of a 747, but I believe that's only to the point of causing nuclear fission.
	Not necessarily the bars coming out of the water.
	What do you think our real concern should be and what should we be doing at this point?
	Well, obviously not panicking, number one.
	We have to really keep a calm head here and use common sense in everything we do and I think that's the biggest problem.
	With our country today, we have lost the ability to use common sense to make the right decisions to keep people informed.
	You asked a very, very important question, and I'm sorry I didn't get your name, but your question is certainly quite valid.
	If a plane fully loaded with fuel, with jet fuel, as the planes were that hit the trade center buildings or the towers, hit directly and at the right angle in the right place at the right time, the potential for devastation anywhere, whether it's Three
	Mile Island or any other nuclear plant certainly could be devastating.
	You know, we all tend to pick our places to live on mountainsides where they fall off
	into the oceans because they have to be beautiful and we take our chances because we believe
	that nothing will ever happen to us.
	I guess there's nothing inherently wrong with that because certainly we always want to have
	hope and I would be the first to say that we've got to keep that hope because it's so
	important.
	At the same time, we also must be practical and keep ourselves informed about the potential and have plans A and plans B for evacuation, for how you treat your own family if there is an emergency, and what you have to do in that case.
	In a major disaster, we saw what happened when the towers came down, people running that were standing close by watching the event, not in any way anticipating what the ultimate reaction might be, or the ultimate result might be, from that attack.
	It's because it was unthinkable.
	Absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	And unfortunately, we are living in an age where we have to have an entirely new mindset, and that mindset is We are not living, and probably will never be able to live, like we did before.
	And I'm not certain that that's all bad, quite frankly.
	We need to just be much more attentive, much more vigilant, much more aware of our surroundings, which, quite frankly, isn't really anything new.
	People have been saying this for years, and that has been quite public in terms of, you know, what do you do in public places, and how aware should you be of who's around you, and so forth.
	Again, not at the expense of communities of people by virtue of their ethnicity, when in fact it's individuals that are causing the problems.
	Well, I don't know.
	I don't think it's so good.
	I think we're going to have to now prepare for the unthinkable happening, perhaps on a somewhat regular basis.
	If we go to war, I mean really go to war, and that's what we're talking about doing here, really going to war.
	They're going to attack us.
	There's no question about it.
	Either prior to or following our retaliatory attack, we're going to be attacked again and maybe again and again.
	And we're going to have to learn a new way to live.
	You know, the innocence is gone now.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Craig O'Thompson.
	Hi.
	Hi, this is Gary.
	I'm calling from Ohio.
	I'm an over-the-road truck driver and I have a question for you.
	How can any of these chemical or biological agents, can they be transported on fresh fruits and vegetables?
	The reason that I ask is that probably a huge percentage of the amount of lettuce and celery and carrots that are consumed in the wintertime or consumed on the east coast of the United States are transported by truck.
	And my theory is this, anybody with a crop duster who wants to do damage could spray an agent on a crop and not even be suspected that crop is harvested.
	Harvested, loaded onto a truck and shipped, you know, in three days to the East Coast.
	40,000 pounds of contaminated lettuce could do a lot of damage.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	I never even thought about that.
	And I'm just wondering if that's a possibility.
	Okay.
	Should we be careful about washing our vegetables out here in the Eastern Time Zone?
	Do you ever wonder about the veggies you carry?
	Well, I personally don't carry vegetables, but I can tell you that I think it's like 80% of certain types of vegetables that are grown in the wintertime and consumed in the United States are grown in the San Joaquin Valley of California.
	If you drive up State Route 99 in California on any clear morning, you see crop dusters out there all the time.
	You bet.
	Alright, well let's try and answer that.
	I had never even thought about that.
	Well, yeah, certainly from a crop duster standpoint or any standpoint.
	First of all, to dispense something you really only need an aerosol can.
	It can be at any level.
	But certainly with the kinds of things that are grown in the San Joaquin Valley, the Central Valley of California, we have relatives that for many years owned some very large farms out there and grew many of those crops.
	Well, first of all, we wash our vegetables regardless of where they come from and how they're to be eaten.
	We wash them vigorously and well, and I think you want to do that in any case.
	If it's a biological agent, as I understand it, and again, Art, I would suggest that you get someone on from John Hopkins Center.
	They're Dr. Tarot tool and some of the experts that really understand this much better than I do I come from common stock when it comes to that by virtue of my research for my writing purposes But I would I would say that certainly As I understand it a biological toxin must be able to remain alive at some level and that's why you must ingest it or breathe it and And where it can do the most damage.
	So an aerosol spray or a crop duster would be an ideal distribution vehicle for this?
	It could be for chemicals, probably more than biological.
	Under the right conditions, under the wrong conditions, it may not survive.
	I'm not the one to ask that.
	I'm afraid I can't help you in that area.
	All right.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Craig O. Thompson.
	Hi.
	Good morning, Art.
	Good morning, Greg.
	Good morning.
	Three-part question.
	issue of gas masks at the point that you find out that you need them, I wouldn't be too late.
	And secondly, on biological weapons, if you don't have a biological suit, then the need
	for a gas mask is mute.
	Thirdly, If I could first, let me just say about the suits.
	Biologically, it's more important to protect your respiratory system than it is your skin.
	You can literally wash off if you have, you know, if you know what's happened, if you know there's been a dispersal, then certainly you can wash off everything.
	If you're well-clothed and you wear gloves, for example, if you're around people, it's not necessarily important to have the type of suit you would have for a chemical event where you have very caustic substances that could All right.
	What about his first question?
	And he said, by the time it gets... by the time you find out...
	Well, yeah, you just don't go, for example, to the opera and carry a mask in there with you.
	You brought up a very good point about Israel.
	Most people have masks available to them there.
	We have not even considered that here.
	It's never even been thought about, at least at any public level, maybe at some governmental level, but obviously nothing's ever been done.
	Should we have masks?
	Craig, should we have masks?
	Well, yes, if you want to at least take a precautionary position, it would be no different than having the food in storage, the water in storage, and a gas mask.
	But let me tell you where I would have it, perhaps more than any place else, are areas where you know that there are chemical plants.
	And areas where there could be an accident.
	Where there could be an accident, number one.
	Alright, we have very little time.
	Caller, you have one last question?
	Yes, on what happens with a specially designed biological gene that gets introduced to our food supply, i.e.
	cattle, i.e.
	mad cow disease.
	Okay.
	Well, there's no question we're watching very, very carefully the Department of Agriculture, all units out in the states, the county uh... inspectors everyone's looking for the potential for that and uh... uh... the the uh... i think the consensus is that what happened in europe uh... this past year was not necessarily accidental all really all really uh... craig are you good for one more hour sir right there
	Craig O. Thompson is my guest.
	I'm Mark Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	So the feeling grows It's written on the wind
	It's everywhere I go So if you really love me
	Come on and let it show You know I love you
	I always will My mind is made up
	By the way that I feel Didn't have a care in the world
	With mommy and daddy standing by But happily ever after it fades
	And mommy and daddy standing by.
	Happily ever after, a phase, and we've been
	And we've been poisoned by these fairy tales And lawyers dwell on small details
	poisoned by these fairytales.
	And lawyers dwell on small details, since daddy had to fly.
	Since daddy and I have been flying care in the world.
	I'm gonna find a place where we can go.
	Still I'm just a black man.
	So watch the clouds roll by, the time pass ways in the wind.
	And you can lay your head back on the ground.
	And let your hair fall all around you.
	I'll put up your best defense.
	This is the end.
	This is the end of the disease.
	Wanna take a ride?
	Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
	of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
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	And to reach out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them
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	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
	Well, it really is the end of innocence for us, isn't it?
	The end of the innocence.
	It's never gonna be the same, is it?
	When we have to worry about terrorists, people, crop dusters.
	Aerosol sprays and who knows what.
	And that's the kind of war we're going to have.
	It really is over.
	And it's never going to be quite the same.
	I suppose we'll just adapt and change.
	Maybe.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Debbie from Northeast Ohio writes to me, Art, when it gets right down to it, you have to take care of yourself and not count on the government.
	And I guess that's probably true, isn't it Craig?
	That's an excellent statement, and I'll tell you why.
	There are some programs out there that civilians like you and me can get involved in.
	It's called Community Emergency Response Training Programs.
	Currently only about 27 of the 50 states participate in them and this is where you can actually train alongside first responders, firemen, policemen and so forth to learn what to do in an emergency situation and this training goes right down to your family and how you can protect yourself as well.
	But it also serves for those who wish to be, as we saw many hundreds of people in New York and Washington, D.C., as they became what we call spontaneous rescuers, people who come upon the scene and just jump right in there with both feet to help.
	The problem with spontaneous rescuing situations is that, for example, in the Mexico City earthquake, they had 800 people saved by Spontaneous rescuers, in the process, a hundred of those rescuers died because they really didn't know how to handle themselves in a disastrous situation.
	Many, many, many firefighters died.
	I think over half the force died.
	A tremendous loss.
	Yes.
	You know, there's a rule of thumb, and my God, I don't want to have anybody misunderstand this or diminish what they did in any way, but let me just point it out from this particular standpoint.
	If it were a biological event, And they didn't assess the situation first.
	It could have been even more catastrophic.
	Well, they did what they were trained to do.
	They're the best trained people in the world, in New York City, I guarantee you.
	Listen, all the way from Germany, we've got a call.
	Where are you in Germany, sir?
	Near Ramstein Air Base.
	Okay.
	Not too far.
	What my question is, is, well, I'm American, born and raised over here, but I'm a civilian over here now.
	Kind of used to getting bomb threats over here in schools and all sorts of stuff.
	Uh, I kind of agree with you that, well, when we attack, we're going to get attacked again.
	Only thing is, I don't think it's only going to be in the States.
	In fact, I think it's going to be more over overseas and on military bases or at targets like that.
	I was wondering, uh, well, what'd you think about that?
	And if so, what can we do over here?
	And then second is with, uh, they're talking about marshals on the planes and things like that.
	I'm trying to get over to the States for Christmas to visit my family.
	And I only keep hearing them saying they're going to have marshals and people like that on the planes for domestic flights.
	Is there anything going to be done for overseas flights?
	Well, actually, as I understand it, there are marshals on international flights.
	In fact, when we thought there were marshals on domestic flights, they were really on the international flights more than anywhere else.
	But that's certainly going to change.
	And he asked, what can we do over here?
	Well, over here, it's probably the same as here.
	In other words, prepare, right?
	Yes.
	Absolutely.
	You know, we as Americans, regardless of where we are, have to remain as committed to this cause.
	In other words, cleansing our world of terrorism as the terrorists are committed to their cause.
	It's got to be balanced in that regard.
	How do you eat an elephant?
	One bite at a time.
	And that's how we're going to have to fight this fight.
	Again, because we're not dealing with, as you pointed out, Art, so astutely, the Soviet Union, where we knew who the enemy was when they were around.
	Yeah, there's no more marching your army against their army, I guess.
	No more of that.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Craig O'Thompson.
	Hello.
	Hello, Stephen Phoenix.
	Yes, Steve.
	Hi, Steve.
	What do you know about Rift Valley Fever?
	And I'll tell you why I ask that when I hear your answer.
	What do I know about Rift Valley Fever?
	I only know it as something I'm not aware of.
	I honestly can't give you an answer on that.
	I'm not aware of it.
	I've heard of it, Steve.
	Why do you ask?
	The reason I ask is, if you look at the Islamic calendar instead of the Gregorian calendar, exactly one year to the day of the World Trade Center attack, there was an outbreak of Rift Valley Fever in Saudi Arabia.
	It killed huge herds of animals.
	That's how they discovered it.
	And then it wound up killing over 80 people from kidney failure.
	And everybody who got it died.
	I'm just wondering if maybe that was a test.
	It was the exact same date.
	And all of these dates correlate.
	September 11th is on a different date every year if you look at the Islamic calendar.
	And they all date back to December 21st, 1992 when U.S.
	troops went into Somalia.
	Well, you know, there's a tremendous amount, and you bring up a very good point, a tremendous amount of symbolism in everything they do.
	Obviously, they didn't pick American Airlines for any other reason other than it was American Airlines, United Airlines, the 11th of September, 9-1-1.
	There are all kinds of what some people might consider to be strange symbolism, but certainly there are also warnings.
	And if we're able to read Osama Bin Laden better than what we have attempted to read in the past, I think we would probably be able to determine, in some cases, where attacks are going to come from and how they're going to be carried out.
	So then you don't dismiss his symbolism?
	A lot of people do.
	Absolutely not.
	Absolutely not.
	For example, many of his pronouncements about his fatwas and his holy jihad, have come, for example, annually on the same date as the Oklahoma bombing occurred, just to create that psychological terror, so to speak.
	If you think about anything that he's saying and how they're carrying it out, it's all just part of his game that he plays.
	Houston Rockies, you're on the air with Frago Thompson.
	Hi.
	Yes, hello, Art.
	Hi.
	It's Keith from Hamilton, Ontario.
	I'm your guest.
	I could be way off here, but I'm wondering if those chemtrails that ran rampant everywhere, could the government or high-ups have done some sort of inoculation worldwide, presenting us a sort of vaccine to fight any chemical warfare?
	All right, well, I don't know if Craig is even aware of the chemtrail controversy.
	Yes, I am.
	Oh, good.
	Okay, there are a lot of people that feel that these chemtrails, so-called, are not regular contrails and that perhaps the government was doing some sort of mass inoculation.
	Some people feel.
	Some people think it's weather control.
	Surely there is a pretty good case to be made that we have some things in our skies that did not seem to be there in the past.
	I can't argue with that Art.
	I would have to say that if in fact we were attempting to inoculate our populations I think we would have done a better job of it by doing it more directly.
	There's no reason to hide something like that.
	The problem is, as I see it, first of all, you're dealing with biotoxins that can be genetically engineered.
	How do you know how they have been, for example, genetically re-engineered in the former Soviet Union?
	You really have to take each disease one step at a time once you diagnose it.
	And then they do have equipment, obviously, that can take it apart and put together serums or vaccines that are necessary to combat it in the long run.
	What happens in between?
	I don't know, but it's very difficult to predict with all the diseases that are out there available to the terrorists, which one you'd want to inoculate them against.
	Unless you have intel.
	And I guarantee you, I would almost guarantee you that we don't.
	We've had terrible intel.
	If you knew of a specific threat, and you announced to the population that there was going to be a nationwide inoculation program against anthrax, I guarantee you, Craig, that before you could get to even a reasonable percentage of the population, there would be a panic that you would set loose.
	Well, we saw what happened when we attempted to inoculate our own military.
	Obviously, there was terrible, terrific concern right there, and you're absolutely right.
	So, if you look to why they might mass-inoculate people without their knowledge, I rest my case.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Craig O'Dompson.
	Hi.
	Hello?
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	I'm here, hello.
	Okay, good.
	Go ahead.
	Okay.
	Thank you very much for having this discussion, Art.
	You're doing a great public service, whether you realize it or not.
	Thank you.
	I've been thinking about this for many years, and obviously Craig is giving this subject a lot of thought.
	And I think what people need to do is realize that their greatest contribution to their society and their community is to protect themselves and their families.
	Not to become a casualty.
	Not to become someone who needs public help in a situation like this.
	Because the medical facilities are going to be overwhelmed.
	They're going to be strained to the max.
	They don't need one more person in there with red marks all over their face.
	Well, you're exactly right.
	When you pick up that phone and try to dial 911 because of an emergency, the fact is, as we saw even in New York, that once the lines are impacted, you may not even be able to get through, number one.
	Number two, if it's a biological event, there may be no one there.
	That's correct.
	And with the crop thrusters flying low between buildings and spraying chemical agents or biological agents, they don't need to do that.
	They could just have a couple of fanatics on the back of a pickup truck.
	I think the crop dusters from Hawaii made a really, really good point, and that is, for the FAA grounding them great, and so forth and so on, but if crop duster really got to it, you couldn't stop them, and you wouldn't know they're there.
	I hadn't even thought about that.
	Apparently you had, Craig.
	Well, it's so easy to fly.
	I mean, I lived, I grew up in California and saw crop dusters all the time.
	We traveled up the Central Valley and again, as I mentioned, we had relatives that grew great crops there.
	Quite hundreds of thousands of acres of crops there.
	And yes, those things, these guys are expert flyers.
	Now the question is, as we know, those who are inquiring of the crop duster that appeared, I believe it was probably the same one on the Larry King Show that we've seen on the news, As they were inquiring, they were asking some pretty silly
	questions.
	Well, you know, is this easy to fly?
	And you know, how much can it carry?
	And you know, the kinds of things that if you got into a plane like that versus, let's
	say, being trained in a jetliner and simulators and so forth, there may be some similarities.
	But if you know how to control it, and if you have the same type of control and ability
	to do the low flying under the radar and in fairly long distances.
	Those things can fly for quite some distance, as I understand it.
	Yes, you could carry it out without being detected.
	Aye, aye, aye.
	All right.
	First time calling a line, you're on the air with Craig O. Thompson.
	Hi.
	Hi, Mr. Bell.
	Honored to speak to you.
	Thank you.
	Tried so many times to get in.
	This is my first time.
	I was successful.
	Yes, I do have a question.
	In my mind, because I can't quote the author that said this, but to defeat the enemy, we have to know the enemy's mind.
	And, you know, if I were the enemy of the terrorists, and I hated America the way these people do, obviously, they're basically, in my mind, they're totally insane and below the scale of evolution.
	In any event, let me get to my question.
	What is the possibility that they could construct, or how difficult would it be for them to construct a nuclear device here in the States using materials that were, you know, obviously smuggled in?
	I know they have to get hold of plutonium to do that.
	But a small nuclear device, you know, you could put that thing in a 20-gallon trash can, and you could set it in the middle.
	I'm in Denver.
	You could put it in the middle of downtown Denver, whatever.
	You could even get away and put it on a timer.
	And it seems to me that if they really wanted to hurt us, that that would be a much more... I mean, and I don't dispute what you guys are talking about.
	I've listened to the whole show, and all these threats are very real.
	But it just seems to me that maybe we're, you know, we're again underestimating them.
	Alright, well I think we have some detection teams for nuclear devices.
	I tend to give off, you know, radiation that can be detected, I believe.
	I may be wrong about that.
	No, no, you're absolutely right.
	And first of all, yes, in answer to the question, it's considered to be a weapon of mass destruction and using what they call radiological waste.
	That's the R in CBRN.
	They kind of turn these alphabet soup terms around, NBCW, Nuclear Biological Chemical Warfare, and CBRN, Chemical Biological Radiological, and so forth.
	And your radiological waste is, of course, available on the black market.
	Again, many cases coming out of the Soviet Union, but can be obtained anywhere right here in the United States if someone's able to gain access.
	And yes, you can make what they call a dirty bomb.
	And that is an explosive device that could be set, let's say, at the top of a tall building that would then radiate the radiation, of course, the nuclear material out over the city.
	And depending on the size of the explosion would depend on how far out it would go and how effective it would be in terms of hitting a large population.
	The problem you have there is that if it requires a tremendous amount of explosive devices, you obviously have to be able to get it to that area and you have to be able to do it undetected.
	One of the reasons why Nuclear is considered to be one of the lowest probabilities is because you just don't carry an ICBM on your back, you know?
	Suitcase bombs is another question.
	And dirty bombs, as we've just discussed, is another question.
	In other words, you wouldn't need a chain reaction, actually.
	You would just have nuclear, dirty, filthy materials around a bomb casing.
	Exactly.
	But again, if you compare it to biological, it wouldn't have the effect of hitting as many people, ultimately, because it wouldn't spread.
	Gotcha.
	Robert from Lansing, Illinois, writes, I'm a police officer, and I agree with you about chemical bio-attacks.
	Creating total anarchy.
	It's obvious.
	Do you think it would be possible to restore order?
	And if so, how?
	Well, quite frankly, this is where the agencies, the government agencies that would be involved in creating any type of order or stopping any disorder would be involved.
	This is where we've been very concerned because of the biological and chemical, for example, dark winter event that we just had, the exercise we just had in June.
	Uh, where essentially they predicted that most of the agencies would not be able to contain brother against brother, neighbor against neighbor, if they didn't react quickly and together.
	Uh, all you have to do is look at, uh, our government agencies right now until such time as the governor of Pennsylvania was named, uh, uh, as head of this new Homeland Defense Organization, uh, at cabinet level.
	We had approximately 50, just a little under 50 agencies, not counting think tanks, not counting private university institutions that deal with these subjects.
	None of them talked to one another, Art.
	None of them.
	And we can see that even between the CIA and the FBI.
	They rarely talked about things like this and rarely shared what we call smoke, which is intelligence that's gathered.
	They generally kept it within their own organizations.
	And both organizations, just taking the two out of the 50, could very easily be working on the same problem or challenge and not know that the other had an answer.
	Well, the people in New York behaved exceptionally well.
	Hardly any, I don't think there was any looting.
	No, no.
	People were trying to save each other.
	It was wonderful.
	You have to wonder though, in a chemical or biological, specifically a biological attack, Whether you would get that because of the fear factor and how you would ever restore order, I can't imagine.
	Well, again, when you look at New York, you have a situation that was as large as it was, it was still limited to a specific vicinity, a specific area.
	People still could go about their business outside of that area, still have access to food and water and other supplies.
	That's right.
	With a biological event, you would probably be contained within a region, within a neighborhood, perhaps within your own home, And the question becomes then about access for food and water and just general supplies.
	All right.
	Hold it right there.
	We're at the half hour mark.
	Craig O'Thompson is my guest.
	on Mark Bell.
	I see the waves of lightning I see bad times today Don't go around tonight, or you'll finally take your life
	There's a bad moon on the rise I hear hurricanes a-flowing I know the end is coming soon
	I know the end is coming soon Thank you for watching!
	What will you do when you know me?
	You're one way and by your side You've been one, I've been much too long You know it's just your foolish mind To recharge Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
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	To reach out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them
	dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
	Well, at the beginning of this program, my intent was to ask somebody who knows, what can a guy in a prop duster do?
	And we've certainly had an answer, or multiple answers to that question, haven't we?
	Bluntly, what could be done?
	Maybe it was better not to ask the question.
	Anyway, that is certainly what we're facing now, isn't it?
	And we'll get back to more of it in a moment.
	Craig O. Thompson has written a book called Omar, available I'm sure at Amazon.com and other places where you can buy books.
	What was the scenario in Omar, Craig?
	Omar is, if you take it quickly, turn of the century, 19th to the 20th, we had two gentlemen in England, one was the Bookbinder to His Majesty the King, and this is fact, by the way.
	The other was an antiquarian book dealer.
	Together they commissioned the most magnificent illuminated, in other words, gold and jewel bound binding in the history of the world at that time.
	Sold to an American, shipped aboard the liner to that individual.
	The ship sank and it was lost.
	The book was lost.
	83 years later, terrorists, mercenary divers, and the U.S.
	government are racing that site.
	The government does not want them to find that book.
	It's worth over $30 million for the terrorists to do their dirty deeds.
	All right.
	Available, as I suggested, at Amazon and so forth?
	Yes.
	And they can also call 1-800-BOOKLOG-247, 1-800-BOOKLOG-247, and order it.
	Actually, they can ask for autographed copies if they wish.
	There's a limited amount available.
	Ah, yes.
	Paulette in Fullerton, California makes a pretty good point.
	Asks, where will they strike next?
	Now you don't have a crystal ball.
	But she says, probably where we're not looking.
	They probably won't use airplanes, because we're now aware of that.
	But where we're not looking next is probably where they'll strike.
	Do you agree?
	Well, absolutely.
	It's been pretty well established that Osama Bin Laden rarely uses the same form of attack twice, or at least not with any close proximity to one another.
	And so, yes, he would pick something else.
	What that would be, your guess is as good as mine.
	Okay.
	On the international line, you're on the air with Craig O'Thompson.
	Where are you, please?
	I'm calling with reference to the earlier question about assembling a nuclear device.
	I'm reading a report right now from the London Times, September 17th, by William Rees-Mogg, which suggests that it would not be necessary, because they already have perhaps 20 of them.
	Absolutely right.
	Yes, do we know, excuse me one second, do we know whether any of these have actually reached terrorist hands?
	According to William Rees-Mogg, they have.
	Yes, according to most experts, they believe that they have reached terrorist hands through the black market.
	You know, anything that should be black market.
	I'm sorry?
	The Chechens.
	Bin Laden has contacts with the Chechens, according to this piece.
	He paid a lot of money and heroin In exchange, the Chechens went out and found suitcase nukes.
	But the problem for the Chech, for Bin Laden, is that they have the old Soviet-era codes.
	Right.
	They have to be, a signal has to be sent from Moscow, so these nukes will have to be reprogrammed.
	Right.
	If in fact he does have them, and there's a high probability that he could, because of the money that he has available to access, it's not only a hash issue, And opium and cocaine, you know, he's got all of that as his access, because that's pretty much all that comes out of Afghanistan anymore.
	It's highly possible that that could happen.
	Yes, the codes would have to be changed.
	He has the money to find the experts.
	And there are a lot of starving people in the old Soviet Union that would be willing to be bought for that.
	You have to wonder why they'd buy them without the codes.
	Well, I think, obviously, the technology is there.
	If they wait long enough and play long enough with it, that possibly they can Make it work, obviously.
	If they play with it the wrong way, they believe they'll be with Allah.
	You had a word or two more to say about Dark Winter.
	Well, Dark Winter, I think it's important to realize what happened from this exercise.
	It was just the most recent mock disaster that we've had in this country just in June.
	Former Senator Sam Nunn played the President of the United States with this.
	This cabinet consisted of people at very high levels of government and of course the medical
	community and so forth because it dealt with smallpox.
	First of all, this was a release, a very small release for the most part of smallpox.
	Experts believe that a single case of smallpox anywhere in the world would constitute a global
	medical emergency.
	Now, we have some lessons that we learned from back in 1972, which by the way was the
	last year we ever inoculated our children, our population for smallpox and that's when
	they stopped manufacturing it.
	A wave of smallpox was tested off in Yugoslavia in 1972 by a single infected individual, one person.
	The epidemic was stopped in its fourth wave by quarantines Aggressive police and military measures.
	I want to point that out because of our earlier conversations.
	What do we do?
	How do we stop this?
	Aggressive police and military measures and 18 million emergency vaccinations to protect a population of 21 million that had already been vaccinated, highly vaccinated.
	Now, here in the United States, we have somewhere between 12 and 14 million doses of vaccine.
	All of the CDC, in fact, my daughters, two of our daughters involved in the medical community, they did some tests and tried to call some doctors to get shots.
	One of them had not received shots because she was born after 1972, and of course, they said, well, you'll have to talk to the CDC about that.
	There's no way that you're going to be able to get vaccinated until we have a program here in the United States that begins to manufacture these vaccines, produce these vaccines, and put them in the storage, obviously, for use by common doctors as opposed to the CDC.
	Now, they had 20 confirmed cases in Oklahoma City with this mock exercise, 30 suspected cases spread out over Oklahoma, Georgia, Pennsylvania, countless more individuals were infected and didn't even know it, and there were answers to questions that the President's Cabinet, in this case, again, Former Senator Sam Nunn, acting as president, couldn't even get answers to.
	We know our lab facilities are needed to diagnose the disease.
	They're totally inadequate and out of date.
	There is insufficient partnership of communication from the federal agencies, which we've already discussed, of course.
	The only way to deal with smallpox is with isolation and vaccination, and we don't have enough, not only vaccines, but enough room or resources for effective isolation.
	You get into a whole series of things.
	For example, the Governor of Oklahoma asked for vaccine for every one of his citizens, as he had to, in the interest of his state.
	The President, former Senator Sam Nunn, said no, as he had to, in the interest of the nation.
	Craig, I was born in 1945.
	Can I ask you a question on behalf of old people?
	I was vaccinated for smallpox, obviously.
	So, am I safe?
	As was I. And right around the same period as you were, I'm sure.
	I talked with an expert last week on this, and the question is, it's highly probable that we would need to be re-vaccinated.
	Uh-huh.
	Great.
	Okay, first I'm calling on the air with Craig O. Thompson.
	Hi.
	Hi, this is Richie in San Diego.
	Yes.
	Hi there.
	Hey, how's it going, Art?
	Hey Craig, I got one question.
	What's the likeliness or the possibility of somebody taking a nuke and picking either coast and dropping it either right off the coast or in a tender spot somewhere where it could really set something off for the entire coast and not just thinking of one specific city?
	Maybe like some sort of geologic event?
	Exactly.
	And it started off with a nuke that they could somehow acquire.
	A nuclear weapon, I think, is small potatoes compared to the energy released by geologic events.
	But could you begin one with a nuclear device?
	I don't know.
	Craig?
	I'm afraid I don't.
	I don't have any knowledge in that particular area.
	I can tell you that a nuclear event caused by an ICBM, what they call a broken arrow, one that's missing from someone's stock, whether in the Soviet Union or here, certainly could be brought into a coastal area by a ship undercover.
	Matter of fact, Craig, I heard that they were stopping cruise ships from coming into Hawaii or inspecting them or doing something with cruise ships.
	What do you think they were concerned about?
	Well, as you mentioned earlier in the program, our world has changed and I think that things like this are going to be necessary because they, well either they have a tip or they're starting, they have a new policy of just inspecting everything now.
	I honestly am not aware of that.
	Well, I just know that when our federal government grounds airplanes, you know, when they ground crop dusters, they're real serious, because they wouldn't send out the scary message that comes with it without having some real reason to believe there's a real problem.
	Well, and you know, if we'd only been discussing this for the number of years that we've been aware of it, I think you mentioned This really is quite taxing on the psyche, and there's no question about it.
	I think if we had a little bit of information come to us so that we could get used to the idea, become more informed and knowledgeable about the subject, rather than getting hit with it all at once, it probably would have been easier to swallow.
	Well, I agree with that, too.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Craig O. Thompson.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi.
	Mr. Thompson, thank you for the information, albeit it's very unsettling.
	Just the messenger.
	I noticed on your website that you were an instructor on the Navajo Reservation.
	Yes, as a matter of fact I was.
	Did you by any chance hear the last year, I believe it was Art, correct me if I'm wrong, when the Indian Chiefs came to Art and wanted to give out information on the great thing that was coming upon our nation?
	Yes.
	Yes, I remember that.
	Oh, you do?
	I actually listen to you a lot, Art.
	Oh, I'll be darned.
	That was a long time ago.
	I did meet in Arizona.
	We picked you up out of Sedona.
	That's right, and I interviewed some elders, and they had some pretty serious prognostications for what was coming.
	Very dark stuff, to be sure.
	These are very wise people.
	Yeah, and maybe here it is at the beginning.
	These are the Rockies.
	You're on the air with Craig O'Thompson.
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	Me?
	Okay, I didn't hear you click in that time.
	It sounded just like background.
	I don't click in.
	I just appear in the night.
	Jupiter, 1290 WJNO.
	I get it.
	A couple questions, a journal for you and your guest, and a statement.
	The statement, I guess, is your guest doesn't sound like some of the journal fanatics you get in.
	Not you.
	I mean, I've been listening for a long time.
	I'm just saying, you know, the people.
	You can tell by the people.
	You know, what they're talking about and how they're saying it is more important than what they're saying.
	In this country, we have a problem because we go about our daily lives and, you know, do what we do and expect everything else to go like it's supposed to go.
	You know, without interrupting us or keeping us from getting milk every day or, you know, getting to our pumps or whatever, you know.
	Everybody's healthy and as long as that's going on, we're okay.
	And we start running into problems with other people coming in, and they have a problem with us, so they want to do something, and then we start thinking of nukes and biologicals, and we're not geared for that because we don't think that way.
	You know, everybody's wondering about, well, gee, you know, I get a gas mask and, you know... Okay, does all this come, uh, getting to a question here?
	Yeah, yeah, well, in general, because everybody's thinking, well, why didn't we know about these planes going to hit You know, the Twin Towers beforehand.
	Well, it takes a lot of money.
	We've cut back.
	You have to get people in the right places.
	Maybe we heard about it a few months ago, but this agency didn't tell somebody.
	Okay, do you have a question?
	Yeah.
	Go ahead.
	Okay, well, first off, for your guests, and one for you, or I'll do yours first.
	In general, you know, stock supplies, you know, just food, medicines, water filters.
	In general, how often do you think We should rotate, or what will be best for what situation, or in general?
	Alright, well we covered that earlier, but let's go ahead and answer it again.
	Well, real quickly, about every six months, you know, but you should be using your stock regularly, particularly if it's not canned.
	Certainly the water should be changed even more often.
	Now, you can buy long-term emergency products.
	You can buy products that have a shelf life of 15 years.
	Actually, you're absolutely right.
	They're out there.
	I do not get into commercially endorsing any of those.
	There are some wonderful products, and certainly they're available on the internet as well as through other suppliers.
	The Mormons are very, very good, obviously, at doing this.
	In fact, one of the wonderful things, and I'm not Mormon, but I can tell you that when there is a disaster, their supplies go out the door to help anybody they can.
	So, the word might be stuck up like a Mormon.
	That's a good word.
	All right.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Gregor Thompson.
	Hi.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello.
	How are you?
	Okay, sir.
	Go ahead.
	Bismillahirrahmanirrahim.
	You know, I'm a Sunni Orthodox Muslim, and I'm really a fundamentalist, a lot like Osama bin Laden.
	Oh?
	And I find a lot of the things that this guy is saying here tonight, and I'm also an American.
	I'm born here and bred here.
	And was brought here 200 years ago on a ship.
	And you guys, oftentimes, I was looking at the President the other night.
	You were brought here 200 years ago on a ship?
	I was brought, my parents were.
	Your parents?
	Okay, I'll buy that.
	Okay, all right.
	200 years ago on a ship, you know?
	And you guys talk about hatred and how you're hated and your lifestyle, you know?
	But you've been watching as so-called the leaders of the world.
	A lot of people, every night I see mothers screaming on TV about their children and their husbands dying in Palestine and all over the world.
	You know, we have a responsibility as a leader.
	But my point to the gentleman here tonight, and I won't delay your time by asking my question, you know, he's been telling us all night long, he's been running this thing about Osama Bin Laden's like this, Osama Bin Laden's like this, Osama Bin Laden's like this.
	Where in the hell is he getting this stuff from?
	I don't know.
	Right off the internet.
	The proclamations of Osama Bin Laden are pretty widely distributed.
	Oh, absolutely.
	He makes videotapes that he sends out of Afghanistan all the time.
	They're broadcast out of Qatar and in other places of the world.
	He does streaming video.
	He uses the internet all the time to make these pronouncements.
	This is nothing new and this doesn't come from Craig Thompson.
	This comes from Osama Bin Laden directly.
	Are you saying that's not true, caller?
	I'm saying that's not true at all.
	I'm saying that's absolutely not true.
	And let me tell you something else for the American public, because Art, you asked him a lot of good questions tonight.
	You said, it's kind of unusual that a guy would buy a nuclear bomb and not have a code to it.
	It doesn't kind of make sense.
	Art, you know, this program is one of the greatest programs of democracy that we have left in this country.
	You know, they always look at you like you're talking about the man in the moon.
	But a lot of times, Art, you put your finger and your thumb on what's happening in the country.
	And right now, you're doing an excellent job of that.
	Unfortunately, you bring this kind of knucklehead on the show, and he gets a chance to sprout off all this same stuff we can see on ABC and NBC.
	Well, that doesn't make it right.
	Yeah, but that doesn't make it wrong.
	No, I'm not saying it makes it wrong, but I'm saying it's just another voice that goes the opposite way of what you do.
	And that's really, in a way, good, because you allow those voices to be heard.
	But my point is this.
	Where is the proof for this?
	You know, when we first started off going down this road, they were going to give us evidence of what was happening with Osama bin Laden.
	I look at Bush on television and he says, Well, it's classified.
	Isn't that the same old traditional nonsense that we've gone through before in this country?
	Listen, to the American people... Hold it.
	Take a breath.
	Hold it.
	Hold it.
	Take a breath.
	I think... First of all, as a Muslim, you should be more gentle and not insult my guests that way, first of all.
	Well, okay.
	Knucklehead doesn't really insult them.
	I'm not out to shoot him, okay?
	Because that's how they think of Muslims to a large extent.
	I'm not insulted.
	Firstly, they're wonderful.
	As I mentioned earlier, 99% of the Muslim population of this world and of our country are wonderful human beings, and they do not follow the Taliban and the Talibanic interpretation, which is a very corrupt interpretation.
	As you would know, as you read the Koran, that there is nowhere in the Koran that says that you go out and kill innocent people.
	In fact, it's just the opposite.
	And I have read the Koran, but I can tell you that Two days before the event in New York and Washington, D.C., I was on KFI Radio with Lee Klein, and we talked about a major event happening in the future because we knew that these things were going on behind the scenes.
	Unfortunately, no one knew how it would come or when it would come, but we certainly knew who were making the pronouncements, and Osama bin Laden was the major person in charge.
	Caller, when you first called, you said you were a fundamentalist, very much like Osama bin Laden.
	Very much so.
	Are you suggesting that Osama bin Laden is not a terrorist, is not somebody who has uh... engage people in terrorist attacks to blow up u.s.
	interest like the coal and uh... as several other terrorist attacks have been
	attributed to him that it's all lie is that what you're saying
	i'm not saying that everything about usama bin laden and he's an angel
	and i'm not saying any more than you would say art that you haven't made
	mistakes or said something that you may not Agreed to.
	Here at the University of New Mexico right now, we've got a professor who said that he agreed with the bombing of the Pentagon, for instance, and now he's about to lose his job and a variety of different things.
	Well, if somebody were to express such a view, it's considered clearly anti-American.
	Listen, we're way out of time.
	Craig Adamson, you're not a knucklehead, and I appreciate your being here.
	First of all, they're very good people out there.
	He has some good points in regard to how we treat people overseas and certainly how we treat the culture.
	We need to understand them more.
	There's no question about it.
	But again, I just want to re-emphasize before we leave, if anyone wants to send an email to request some wonderful websites on how they can get involved, it's brightomar, B-R-I-G-H-T-O-M-A-R, brightomar at AOL.com.
	It may be a few days because we're receiving hundreds of letters, but we'll definitely get back to you.
	Project Vote Smart.
	Get involved in it.
	VoteSmart.org.
	Vote-smart.org.
	You can go in there and watch them track 40,000 politicians and where they stand on various issues.
	Get involved and find out and become a part of the process.
	We're out of time.
	Thank you very much, my friend.
	Take care.
	Good night and good luck with your email.
	I'm Art Bell.
	It is a new world out there, isn't it?
	Good night.

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