Art Bell hosts John Gribbin, who links climate change to human activity, warning of 5°C temperature spikes and Arctic ice disrupting the Gulf Stream. Gribbin explores quantum physics’ parallel universes, where "sideways" time travel might access alternate realities—like a Nazi WWII victory—though inter-universe communication remains unproven. Callers debate crop circles: Lucy Pringle dismisses human creation of the 409-circle Milk Hill formation (2001), citing precision and terrain challenges; others speculate on non-human faces, like the Warewell "lion" or Mars-like designs. Gribbin cautions about SETI’s potential discoveries, while Bell fields ghost video theories and NASA’s disputed solar radiation report, leaving listeners questioning humanity’s place in cosmic phenomena. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be across the Great Cosmos.
And so I went to doctor number one, my local doctor, and he had an MRI done in Las Vegas.
I actually had to go do it.
Thank you very much.
And the MRI came back and he said, basically, cutting through it all, he said, look, you can't sit anymore.
I do not recommend under any circumstances whatsoever that you have an operation.
He said, of those patients that I've had that have had operations, it's turned out more times than not or as many times as not poorly, with at least limited mobility on the good side and the possibility of paralysis on the bad side.
So that wasn't too cool, as you can imagine.
And here I am, again, unable to sit, stand, even lying down was nearly impossible in any position that you can imagine.
And she is author of an excellent book called Crop Circles, the Greatest Mystery of Modern Times.
It is featured in the bookstore at my website, www.earthfiles.com.
It is a beautiful book.
And also, her beautiful new 2002 Crop Circle calendar is now available.
And for more information about that, you can visit earthfiles.com.
And the top story in my Real X-Files section is about this Milk Hill formation and my interviews with Lucy Pringle, with a German surveyor, and with a United States land surveyor who will make some comments from his professional point of view about this amazing formation in the second half of the program.
It was found on the morning of Sunday, the 12th of August.
And you will be hearing from a German guy in the second half also about the fact that there was definitely no formation from a witness there on that Saturday afternoon going into the evening.
Well, there was a lot of discrepancies about the discovery in the beginning, but now as things evolve and things become more clear, it is and was discovered on Sunday, August 12th.
And Lucy, who has been flying over crop formations to take aerial photographs and to investigate the plants and soils of English crop formations since going back all the way to about 1989 when all of these patterns began evolving from simple circles and rings, she has been in hundreds of formations.
But this one that was discovered in the Ron Reed wheat field on a high plateau of Milk Hill, Wiltshire on Sunday, August 12th overwhelmed her.
And after measurements have been made in the last few days, the official count is 409 circles of varying sizes divided into six curved arms that are not fractals art.
This is circle geometry, and you will hear comments about that from the German surveyor Andreas Mueller in the second half.
These six curved arms stretch over 787 feet, that's 240 meters, from one side to the other.
The largest central circle was 72 feet in diameter, and the smallest little circles that dotted along the large arms were no more than 40 inches in diameter.
And Lucy, could you describe for the dreamland or the Coast audience your first impressions going into this amazing formation last week?
Excuse me, our photograph is higher resolution than CNN had, but what they did do is their video showed the depth of the circles because they flew in at a lower angle.
And these circles are rather deep, aren't they?
unidentified
Well, the height of the crop is really at its greatest height that it's going to be this summer because it is very, very ripe.
It won't grow any longer, won't grow any further or longer.
I would say it's no more than about a meter, just over a meter.
So that really gives you the depth, so to speak.
But one woman who was very bright, she said she was on the perimeter and she'd seen my photograph and she said, right, there are 13 circles to every arm, 13 large circles to every arm.
And she said, I'm going to go on this spiral and count around.
Well, as she did so, she sort of disappeared from sight.
And I thought, good Lord, where on earth has she gone?
Eventually, she sort of jumped up and down in the distance and she shouted, I am in the center.
So off we went and joined her in the center.
But I mean, I've never experienced anything like that.
It is the enormity and the obvious complexity and huge supercision is something that we've never seen before.
And what is so absolutely fascinating is the worldwide interest.
And now, as the people who are measuring things mathematically are getting into it, and you'll hear more in the second half hour, these are the arcs of circles, and there is symmetry in it.
And one thing, Lucy, one of the rumors batting around in the United States is that this may have been made for this signs movie that Night Shimalian in the United States is working on on the East Coast.
unidentified
Now, that's very interesting because I've heard a great many rumors going around.
I think once you get such an absolutely daunting circle as this one, you get people who want to jump on the bandwagon and destroy it as being man-made.
Lucy, is there any way, in your opinion, this was formed, I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, overnight, between, what, Saturday and Sunday, I guess, overnight.
Do either one of you, let's just cut right to it, believe there's any way that man could have done this?
unidentified
No, personally, I don't.
And I've got a denial from the circle makers who say that they were not the guy involved in the creation of Milk Hill Formation, nor were any of the circle makers with whom they are in contact.
Now, they know all of them.
But quite apart from that, one doesn't even need to have a denial because it just humanly would not be possible to create something so enormous and with that number of circles and with the precision which I think Andreas will be talking about later.
Well, CNN was saying, you two, that in order for a man to have made this, they would have had to make one circle every 30 seconds or something like that, which obviously is totally, completely impossible.
And you will hear from the professional land surveyor that with the most sophisticated GPS satellite system to find the center points and the radiuses of these 409 circles, the most rapid that he thinks it could occur would be approximately every two, three minutes.
And even at that, you are way beyond seven hours.
And he said the most likely, though, is 45 minutes per circle.
If that were the case with a GPS system, that would take days.
unidentified
What we know also, Art, is in the genuine formations, they occur between, in a time scale of between 4 and 7 seconds.
Music Back now to a couple of experts in the world on the world's most complex crop circle that you can see on my website right now, www.artbell.com, Linda Moltenhow.
And Lucy Art was making an important point before the break about scientific evidence that crop formations are created really quite rapidly, maybe in less than 30 seconds.
And this comes from both Lucy's work, biophysicist W.C. Leavengood's work in the United States.
There have been several tests having to do with microwave energy and plants not being cooked that suggest whatever is happening is an energy system and that it's happening rapidly, which again is a whole different order of scientific evidence than people talking about dragging around ropes, strings, and boards.
unidentified
That's absolutely correct.
What we do know is that when this force hits, there's an electrical discharge of probably some hundreds of thousands of volts per meter, just for a nanosecond.
It is a very, very complex energy system that we're dealing with.
And when the force hits, it softens the plants at the base, allowing them to fall, and then it travels up the stem of the plant, breaking down the molecular structure as it goes.
But that doesn't explain the complexity of the formations.
And in my opinion, there is an intelligence, there has to be an intelligence behind this phenomenon.
And to me, it makes abundant sense how is he going to make these formations?
Right.
And he uses all the forces of nature available to it.
And Lucy, I really want to share with the coast audience these comments from this professional land surveyor and want you to hear it too.
Yes, I'd like to hear that.
And before we do that, could you please give listeners out your website where you have so many good photos?
unidentified
I would be delighted.
It's H T P colon two forward slashes home H O M E dot Clara dot net forward slash Lucy Pringle L U C Y Pringle all one word and it's all lowercase and you'll see quite a lot of different pictures about this fantastic formation we're talking about.
You'll see it in its own setting and with the hills and the surrounding countryside.
And you can see some of your photographs and make a direct link to your website by going also to EarthFiles.com to this top story in the Real X-Files section about tonight's interviews.
And at the bottom of the report are hot links to Lucy's website.
So with that, let's go on since there is such an immense size in this Milk Hill 2001 formation and these 409 circles, more than anything ever discovered like this in the world.
I ask a professional land surveyor in the state of New Jersey to study photographs of this pattern and estimate how long it would take his survey team to mark out this formation.
unidentified
To stake something out like this in the field from a surveying perspective is probably going to take the better part of a day and a half to two days work.
Because you've got 400 points.
You'd have to lay out the radius point of every circle in that formation to get it perfectly symmetrical.
And the office calculations that you'd need for something like that would probably take also the better part of a half a day with a computer.
And the way that this would be laid out would probably be with this electronic distance meter and a data collector that would already have the coordinates of all the points stored into it.
And a two-man team working with those conditions with the most advanced surveying computer knowledge would take maybe up to two days in order to even lay it out.
unidentified
That's correct.
It certainly would be a difficult task to lay this thing out and a costly one.
I mean, in the United States here, survey crews generally run anywhere from $800 to $1,000 a day.
And I showed this to a couple of my colleagues at work, and I said, yeah, it would be a big job.
And also, I'm speaking of doing this work in the daytime.
It would be very, very difficult to do this surveying work at nighttime.
Would it be almost impossible to lay this 409 circles out at night?
unidentified
It would be extremely difficult.
You'd have to have some type of surveying equipment with an optical laser sight on board.
That does exist, but it's pretty expensive, and most people aren't using it because it's not necessary for a lot of the current construction layout work.
Another possibility would be laying it out with GPS equipment, global positioning.
Once again, that's even more costly equipment, but that works by utilizing satellites to determine your position on Earth.
And you would have to have the time to lay out this using satellite positioning.
Could you just give an estimated guess of how long using GPS it would take to lay out that 409 circle formation?
unidentified
It would probably take, and I'm making kind of a guess here, probably with the very best equipment available, you might be able to lay out each point in about two to three minutes.
And with some of the less expensive equipment, it would probably be about 45 minutes per point.
Besides that, Linda, look, anybody who looks at this knows that humans did not do this.
they simply could not have uh...
maintain this kind of uh...
accuracy and complexity uh...
the preciseness with which they did it without without an incredible team and even then i i don't believe no It's flawless, isn't it?
unidentified
If you look at those circles, and what's interesting, if you count out seven from the center, you'll find that on the seventh circle at the end, the two little outriders actually share their circle with another spiral going around as it tapers towards the end.
Now that is absolutely precise on every single one of the arms.
And to do something of that amazing exactitude is, well, I'm speechless.
Everybody who has ever measured and surveyed says the longest part of geometry, whether you are going to build a house on ground or in this case, bringing geometry onto the crops, the longest effort is laying out the centers of what it is that you are doing in the geometry.
And you've already heard now a land surveyor who has worked doing this for years say it would take really two days for them to simply find all of the points for 409 circles.
Well, Andreas, he has some interesting comments about this from the standpoint of a force of nature that has intelligence and consciousness that we really, we may have called various names as civilization has evolved, and that he is, and so is the teenager in Holland.
They both have very similar perspectives that we are dealing with intelligence that is almost a hyper-force, a hyperintelligence behind nature.
And that's the point of view of people who have spent a lot of time in these formations.
I think from their perspective that there are other frequencies, other dimensions, that we don't understand all that there is in nature with a capital N. All right.
I would say it would be a disincarnate intelligence.
It certainly isn't little green men that people like to put around.
We've grown long beyond that.
Just like to start with, the mass were primary school mass.
Now they're university school maths.
We've grown beyond that too in our understanding, I think, of this phenomenon and understanding of the energy that we're talking about, energy or intelligence, frequency, consciousness, whatever you like to call it.
Andreas Mueller is a crop circle researcher who has measured and drawn detailed diagrams of dozens of crop formations the past three years.
He's from Saarbrücken, Germany.
He had been in southern England traveling from formation to formation for about a month this summer of 2001.
And Saturday night, August 11th, was his last night, ironically, and he and his friends left early the next morning for Germany.
When he arrived at his home, he already had a message from England about the huge milk hill pattern discovered that same day, August 12th.
He turned right around in his car and drove all the way back to England to experience it for himself and measure as much as he could.
Here is Andreas Mueller.
unidentified
You look for symmetry and this is what we have in this formation.
Of course, I didn't measure all 409 circles.
It's 409 in total.
By entering it, the only thing I can explain the idea you got, or I mean, the basic idea, you were surrounded by circles.
This was unbelievable.
I mean, you made a hundred, you made a 360-degree turn, and the circles were just all over you.
And without an aerial picture, you simply would not know what's up there.
The thing is, what was a very impressive detail of this formation, that it was placed in a field that was very sloping.
There were many ditches and bumps in the field.
And those ditches, for example, they were that deep.
I was once standing in an outer circle of one of the arms, looking in the direction of the very center.
And I saw some people who I thought they were sitting in a circle because their heads were just showing out of the standing crop.
And when I approached them, I realized they were actually standing in a circle which was in the lowest part of the ditch.
So you can imagine how bumpy the whole area was.
And this was very impressive for me because those irregularities in the ground and in the topography did not cause any distortion or irregularity in the formation itself, which is basically a major problem for architecture because what they have to do if they made the foundation for a house,
they have to create a flat and right angular platform where they can start on, or they have to do a very detailed topographical survey of the whole ground to be able to put down a building.
And this is similar to, because architecture makes the same what crop circles do, they bring geometry on the ground, basically.
And so some thing was able to avoid all these known problems by creating this amazing and the biggest formation we ever had, not the longest, but the biggest we ever had on such a hard terrain.
And it is something one really has to experience in the field, you know.
This sheer scale, this sheer large scale, it's mind-blowing.
And to say it with an experienced human circuit maker's word who was baffled by and just kicked away by this formation, he said with his last words by giving a quote on this formation, he said, my brain hurts.
This is a guy who has made crop formations who said to you about Milk Hill, this makes my brain hurt.
unidentified
Yeah, the basic thing I want to tell is that the night was covered with rain and people who were first in the formation say that the lay was nice and clean and with no footprints on it and everybody who knows what it is to walk in a wet field,
I mean you know this from England, it's not possible to avoid that your feet and your shoes get clumpy with tons of earth and with mud and you spread this all over in the formation and nothing was there.
Are you at this point left with any sense inside yourself of what could be behind something like Milk Hill 2001?
unidentified
I think it is yeah, a good word that explains what I feel is it is consciousness and intelligence but not fixing those two uh words to two aliens from outer space.
I see the consciousness and the intelligence even in nature but not in simple nature as we are used to experience it each day.
It is some things hidden in nature.
Probably it can be explained with hypernatural nature.
I don't know.
And probably I don't want to exclude aliens, but it's simply not what I personally feel the first time.
I feel after all these years that we are facing a phenomenon that teaches us again the basic teachings on ourselves, on our environment, on nature.
And so I see more hints for linking the phenomenon with a consciousness and intelligence which is in nature itself and close to the mind of God, so to speak?
So to speak.
But this brings crop circles in a religious aspect and I don't feel that the crop circles are for me something religious.
I mean yeah I mean in the same way as I feel when I look at a flower and suddenly realize what a wonder it is, you know, what big and complex geometry it includes.
And this is something we have to wonder again about.
And I think this is also what the COP service teaches us.
Music All right, we're going all the way back to Great Britain now, back again to Great Britain.
In fact, this is going to be the Invasion of the British Week, I think, tomorrow night as well.
John Griven was born in 1946 in Maidstone, Kent.
He studied physics at the University of Sussex, 1966, B.Sc.
went on to complete an MSc in astronomy at the same university.
1967 awarded with a very special merit award before moving to the Institute of Astronomy in Cambridge, then under the directorship of Fred Hoyle to work for his Ph.D. during this period he gained an Isaac Newton studentship for research on gravitational problems and the prestigious annual award of the Gravity Research Foundation in the United States, the only student and the first Englishman working in England ever to receive this award and so, so much more.
He has written books, one about climate change, one called The Sixth Winter, In Search of Schroeder's Cat, In Search of the Double Helix, In Search of the Big Bang, In Search of the Edge of Time, Being Human.
It just goes on and on and on and on, obviously a real heavyweight.
And all the way from Great Britain, here is Professor.
You have written a book on climate change, and there are many of us, Professor, who believe that our climate is actually in the midst of that change right now.
Yes, I'm one of the ones who convinced is perhaps too strong a word in science.
You always want absolute proof before you say something is established for certain.
But I think there's overwhelming evidence, enough to convince a court of law, if you like, that human activities are changing the climate, and that's responsible for the warming that's been going on for the past few decades.
Here in America, there are many who, when they hear words like the ones you just spoke, actually get angry, and their anger comes from kind of a political place because they understand that in order to change, what you just said is now beyond any shadow of a doubt.
There would have to be changes that would affect the political world out there, indeed affect all of us.
Do you get the same sort of reception when you say that in England?
I think people have had longer to get used to the idea.
My understanding from my travel and talking to people in the States is that over there you've felt as if these things didn't affect you, that technology can solve all problems, whereas in the rest of the world people have perhaps had less face to start with that we can solve all our problems that way.
And so when we're told that there are problems that are arising and we've got to change our lifestyle to cope with them, it came as less of a shock.
And it's certainly most of the people that I talk to, I mean, there's a general willingness to accept that there is a problem and something needs to be done.
And of course the debate then is about what needs to be done and how quickly and how much we can spend on it and all those sorts of issues, but not on the underlying facts of the case, that something is happening and action does need to be taken.
Well this is something I haven't looked at for a long time.
It's an area that I worked in about 10 years ago.
And what happened was that I didn't stop being interested in it.
I stopped working in it when the evidence became compelling because I was interested in the scientific side.
And once it was clear that there is a problem there, then it becomes a political issue.
And I could have spent my life becoming a politician and doing things in that area.
But for various reasons, I chose not to.
And so I haven't been closely involved in the subject for about 10 years or so.
But I follow the figures that come out of people like the World Meteorological Organization
the international climate people and it does seem that we're talking about a possible range of increases in temperature during the present century of perhaps up to about five degrees Celsius which would be a bad worst case scenario and even if things go well then temperatures will rise and weather patterns will change but not so drastically.
If things don't go so well and we get a five degrees Celsius change people say wow it's not much so so why it's not much if you compare summer to winter and even day to day you can get changes that sort of size.
But what you have to do is to look at this as a long-term change in that the average over the whole year, every year, and compare it with things like the changes that warmed the world out of an ice age about 10,000 years ago.
And just, I can't quite remember, I think the figure is about three degrees.
The average rise in temperature worldwide that made the world change from an ice age to the conditions we live in now is certainly less than what we're talking about.
So it's a very big change in terms of the world's natural processes, the ecology, the plants and animals and so on.
I mean, some places will get drier, which is what gets a lot of publicity, new deserts and so on.
Some places will get wetter, which in terms of rainfall, which obviously can be a good or a bad thing depending on where you start from.
And of course, the rise in sea level that results partly from just the thermal expansion of the top layer of the oceans, it's warming up, so it's getting bigger, and partly from glaciers and ice caps melting, is going to have a dramatic effect on places around the world, from Bangladesh to Florida.
And I think there's been some amusement in some quarters over here in Europe that Florida being the key state that got George W. Bush elected is likely to be the first part of America to suffer detrimental effects from his policy on climate change.
One of the scenarios that concerns people in our part of the world, in Northwest Europe, is that we're kept warm by the Gulf Stream, which a current that flows up past Florida and sort of turns right at New York and comes across the Atlantic and brings warm water to our part of the world.
And that brings warm air, which blows past and keeps us a lot warmer than Alaska and Canada, which is the kind of temperatures we ought to have.
And it's possible that the changes in the amount of fresh water getting into that part of the world from the Arctic ocean smelt could change this current.
And Europe could get colder while the rest of the world gets hotter.
So there are all kinds of complications that we just can't calculate in detail yet.
I mean, anything that brings more moisture into the air is bad if you're in a cold part of the world.
So while these changes are going on, obviously warmer water evaporates more, so you get more clouds, you get more rainfall or snowfall, whatever it might be.
So you expect there to be extreme weather events in a warmer world and more hurricanes and they would extend further north up the Atlantic seaboard of the States, for example.
As a matter of fact, now I saw on the cable news network here that the meteorologists are beginning to actually for about the third time modify their opinion of how strong the hurricanes are going to be this year.
They're really getting worried about because of the heat, the amount of heat in the Atlantic.
All right, Professor, you sort of ducked out as this became political, obvious to you that it was underway and it became political and you have concentrated in the world of physics.
There is no thing that I am personally more interested in in the whole world than time travel.
I'm obsessed, actually, about the possibility of time travel.
And I know that you've written about this, that you know something about it.
And so the first question that I would ask you is, is, in your opinion, is time travel going to be allowed by the laws of physics as we know them now or as we imagine some of our theoretical physicists imagine they may be?
And there's nothing in the laws of physics as we understand them which prevents or forbids, if you like, time travel.
Really?
The long answer is that it will be very, very difficult and involve manipulating huge amounts of mass.
I mean much more than the mass of our sun, for example.
But it's one of the most exciting discoveries to theoretical physicists of the past 20 years or so is that there is nothing which prevents time travel according to the equations of physics as we understand them.
I mean it's not saying that time travel is definitely possible and it may be that we will discover a law which does prevent it later on.
But it's the two areas of physics that came out of the 20th century, the two great discoveries, are the general theory of relativity from Einstein and quantum physics from a whole load of people who developed that.
And those two theories, those two sets of mathematical equations seem to describe everything in the physical world that we've been able to probe with our experiments.
And it's those two sets of equations that tell us that it's not impossible for certainly for particles to travel in what we call closed time-like loops.
That means loops in time going back to where you start.
And once you start talking about particles being able to do that, then it's natural for you and me and everyone else to speculate about human beings or spaceships or whatever doing that.
They affect space and time in a similar sort of way.
But that's the other aspect is this idea that you could use a black hole as a gateway to a cosmic subway and travel through it and come out somewhere else, which, of course, Carl Sagan described very memorably in his novel and film Contact.
That stuff in that science fiction movie is real science in the sense that it could happen according to the laws of physics, but it's as difficult.
The analogy I always like to make is, you know, you go back to someone like Leonardo hundreds of years ago designing a helicopter.
He could never make it fly.
We're almost in the stage now where we can design a time machine, but it'll take the technology of hundreds of years in the future to make it work.
I mean, there's a wonderful story about this, which if you're a fan of the movie, you probably know.
But what happened when Carl Sagan was writing the book was he wanted to use this idea of traveling through this sort of cosmic subway space machine, if you like, to travel from one part of the universe to another.
And he wanted to dress it up properly with some mathematical bits and pieces.
And he's a planetary scientist.
He didn't know much about the relativity.
And he asked a friend of his, Kip Thorne, to work out some mumbo jumbo, you know, not real maths, to put in the book to disguise his lack of knowledge.
And Kip went away and thought about this for a weekend or so.
And he came back and he said, well, look, Carl, actually, this isn't mumbo jumbo, this is real.
I mean, Einstein's equations say you really can travel through these tunnels in space.
And then a little bit later, the penny dropped, and I think it was one of the students in Thorne's group who said, well, Einstein taught us that space and time are the same thing.
And if you can have a tunnel through space, then you can have a tunnel through time as well.
I mean, a lot of these things start out like that.
They are parlor tricks, if you like.
But again, sort of making the analogy with flight.
People built paper aeroplanes before they built real aeroplanes.
So you go from the parlor tricks to doing something useful.
And one that I always like is back in the middle of the 19th century, James Clerk Maxwell, who's a great scientist who worked with the colour theory of light.
And he was a person who worked out that you could make colour photographs by taking three black and white images through three different coloured filters.
And that was a parlor trick.
He photographed a piece of tartan and demonstrated it in colour at the Royal Society in London and astonished everybody.
And not much more than 100 years later, the space probes that visited Saturn were sending back pictures, color pictures of Saturn using exactly that parlor trick.
People say that if time travel is ever to be possible, and we all know how quickly technology is advancing, you know, the speed of processors doubling every 18 months, whatever it is, that if time travel is eventually going to be possible, it's easy to imagine it will be, then where, pray tell, are the time travelers?
The simple answer is that you can't travel backwards in time, according to these same laws of physics that we've been talking about, to an earlier time than when the time machine was built.
So if I was to build a time machine in my backyard tomorrow, I could, in principle, travel anywhere in the future, and I could come back to tomorrow.
But I couldn't come back to today because the time machine didn't exist then.
And that seems to be the simplest way around that puzzle.
There are people who like to speculate about these things, and there are stranger ideas, like that perhaps time travel is possible, and the world is full of time travelers, and they're just hiding from us for some reason.
So then from the very moment then that a time machine is invented that would go into the future, then from that moment we could expect to get visitors from the past.
No, what we need to do is to find a natural time machine, one of these cosmic strings or one of these wormholes, something like that.
And if you find something that's been around for millions of years, then you can use that to go back to all those millions of years in the past.
So there's a better prospect, perhaps, of developing space travel in the hope that we can then find a time machine and use that for time travel.
And again, something that's been explored in many science fiction stories, rather than building our own and only being able to travel into the future, if you do think that that's not very exciting.
And of course, one of the interesting things about this is it means it would be almost impossible to keep something like that secret, because if you had a huge secret government project and you built the first time machine in some dark and secret place and didn't tell anybody, what that does is it opens up the future.
So people in the future who've got better technology than us can then come back to the moment that time machine was built.
So your dark and secret time experiment is successful in some underground laboratory in the middle of the Rockies, and immediately time travelers can come anywhere and come up to you in the street in New York and say hi.
So you're not going to keep this project secret if it's a success.
So that's a twist that I guess the government researchers ought to be aware of.
Yes, I think we have to turn to the writers of fiction to look at all the problems that could arise.
And they're very similar to the problems of making contact with alien civilizations, which is a much more realistic prospect, certainly in our lifetimes.
The culture shock, it's all very well imagining that you could make some kind of contact with the future, even if it's limited contact, and find out wonderful things and have new technology and stuff like that.
But it would be an enormous culture shock, and it could destroy our civilization entirely, the way that some of the civilizations of the Pacific were destroyed by contact with what we call Western civilization.
Actually, I think most of these civilizations untouched or these groups untouched by modern civilization have, in fact, been destroyed by contact, haven't they?
Yes, I think it certainly was something that happened a great deal.
And so it's something that's worth being aware of.
And people, sociologists, psychologists and people do look into this from the point of view of what would happen if we got a message from another civilization in space, just the mere knowledge that we weren't alone.
Would that be a huge religious experience for the world?
Or would it destroy our faith in human ability if we use it with a superior technology?
It's possible people might think, well, why bother?
What's the point of inventing things if it's all been invented by somebody else?
Well, you're right there in the realm of all the time travel paradoxes and the classic one working the other way around.
If you go back in the past and you do something that leads to you not being born, then you can't go back in the past.
And this is where the quantum physics comes into the serious science that's being done to investigate the possibility of time travel.
Because the quantum physics allows for the possibility of there being more than one reality, that there are different versions of everything if you take it to the extreme.
But in the simple case that when you have particles like electrons and they're given a choice of doing one thing or another, turning left or right when they come to a particular obstruction, then in some sense the world splits in two and you have one world in which it goes left and one in which it goes right.
And the answer would be that the knowledge from the future that has changed us, has changed our future, but that it came from another future, if you like, the future next door.
And there was a wonderful book called Time Scape, which is one word, so it's kind of a pun on Time Escape as well, by, I think it was Gregory Benford, which looks at this whole problem.
And that's about a project where communication with the future is established, and it does change the world.
And once the world is changed, the communication stops because that's no longer our future, it's somebody else's future.
So there are ways around all these problems if you look at the laws of physics and you think hard enough about it.
Well, Professor, the way it was explained to me by Professor Kaku was that at the instant, for example, that you killed your father or grandmother or whatever, there would in effect be a new universe, a new bubble.
There would be an entirely different stream of time and events.
You can think of it, another analogy is like with the branches of a tree.
And we're sort of traveling up the trunk of the tree, and at the time we're still in the trunk, then it's possible, if time travel is possible, to get communication from all the branches above us.
But when you do something that makes a decision of the kind you're talking about, that's like turning off into a side branch.
And once you do that, then there are still different possibilities as the branch sort of turns into little branches and twigs and so on.
So you haven't sort of finally crystallized everything, but you've turned away from one particular path.
And so that path is no longer open and you're heading in a different direction.
Well, Professor, then might it be possible or would there be any difference, delineation between time travel as we have discussed it and the possibility of either communicating with or moving to one of these alternative universes?
No, I mean this is something that people, there's a guy called David Deutsch at the University of Oxford who looks at these kinds of possibilities.
And if you can travel, if you like, sideways in time, then you could Move into these other universes, and you could experience them and perhaps come back or send communications back and get information.
And there's a practical thing which sounds like the weirdest science fiction, but people are taking very seriously.
It's a kind of computer which would exist in more than one reality at the same time because of quantum processes going on inside it.
A quantum computer, which would you build one processor in effect, and you get a vast number, I mean in principle, an infinite number of processors because the computers in all the parallel universes would be working on the same problem that you set to your computer.
So they'd solve it very, very quickly, and you'd get the answer.
And this is, I assure you, this is being taken seriously by people who understand the mathematics and the quantum physics much better than I do.
Well, it's already happening in a very, very limited way.
We're used to thinking of your home PC will have megabytes of memory in it, and people are doing experiments at the level of a few bits, not bytes, four bits or so.
They're doing experiments to see if they can make this sort of thing work.
And there are people I talk to who say that it could, within 20 years, they could have something working if the equations are correct.
And of course, you don't need very many bits if you're going to have an infinite number of copies in an infinite number of parallel worlds.
Well, that's the big question that nobody's yet been able to answer.
I mean, I think it's something that will only be answered by doing the experiment and finding out.
Because the rules of quantum physics seem to say that you can't communicate from one to the other, that you know they exist.
You'd know they existed because the computer would be able to solve the problems and it would act as if it was a much more powerful computer.
But that you can't actually transfer information.
It's related to the famous uncertainty principle, which says that there's a limit to what knowledge you can have about the position of a particle and things like that.
But people are always looking for ways round these rules, and who knows, it might be possible.
If it were possible to travel to one of these alternate universes, would we arrive at a place perhaps, for the most part, pretty much, you would imagine, similar to the one we're in now, except perhaps where events had unfolded in a different way.
For example, Germany would have won World War II and we'd all be under Hitler's boot?
I mean, the kind of feeling that people have is that it would be easiest to travel to similar places, if it's possible at all, and that similar places where there have been very small changes, maybe not even as extreme as the ones you're talking about.
You'd do the experiment and travel, and you might find it very hard to tell the difference.
The difference might be that a different team had won some football competition, and that was the only difference in the whole world.
So it might be hard to tell whether your experiment has succeeded or not with limited abilities of this kind.
But what you'd expect is there'd be a whole array of other worlds, if you like, getting more and more different the further you went and the harder it was to get to them.
What about the possibility, Professor, that the laws of physics, as we know them in our world, would be not quite the laws of physics in the alternative universe you plop down into?
Yeah, that's a dangerous line of questioning, because if the laws of physics are different, then the whole basis of your whatever you call it, your sideways time machine, might not work.
So you might have designed something that works on our laws of physics and you get into another world and it didn't work anymore.
And nobody would believe you'd come from another world because your machine didn't work.
I'm not sure about that.
There's another way of looking at all this business about the laws of physics and whether they could be different in some sense in other parts of the universe or in other universes.
But I don't know of anybody who's seriously trying to deal with this kind of quantum effect and suggest that there are different laws in the world next door.
But to imagine, for example, you're plopped over there on the other side and you've got a machine.
Imagine it like an automobile.
You get over on the other side, you turn the key and you don't even hear the starter grinding or the internal combustion engine even beginning to work because internal combustion doesn't work.
I mean, all these things, this is a whole other area that fascinates me, is why the laws of physics are the way they are.
And there seem to be many, if you like, coincidences in the laws of physics that allow life to exist in the universe, which is obviously the most important thing to us.
And if there were small differences in things like the laws on which electricity and magnetism operate, the strength of electricity and magnetism compared with things like gravity, then the world would be a very, very different place.
And you wouldn't have the kind of chemical reactions that go on.
You wouldn't have had the kind of nuclear reactions inside stars that made the elements that we're made of, and all of that.
And so there is a very important question in science as to why the universe should have exactly the laws it does have.
And I suppose from the purely sort of scientific, theoretical point of view, one of the main reasons for doing an experiment to communicate with the world next door in this quantum sense would be to find out if it was possible for different laws to exist and to produce intelligent life.
Music Coming to us all the way from Great Britain is Professor John Gribben.
And one of the books he wrote is called In Search of the Big Bang.
And I want to take a moment and ask the professor, I've talked to so many people about this, and I have yet to be able to grasp the concept, Professor, that something apparently smaller than a cork, something we can just barely imagine the size of, became everything that is.
All the stars, all the planets, all the space, all the dark matter, all the whatever it is that's out there, everything we can see and walk and touch and feel, was created in an instant, just boom, like that, from nothing.
And I know that's kind of where most physicists sort of throw up their hands and say, we don't know.
Well, we don't know in the sense that we have a definite answer to exactly what happened, but it's one of those examples of progress being made.
When I was a student in the 60s, we were told you shouldn't even try to think about this kind of thing because it's beyond science.
And now, nearly 40 years later, it's part of science in that people do try to think about it and they come up with ideas and models and theories about what could have caused that beginning of our universe.
Okay, well, the one is that it literally is something from nothing at all, and that you had this nothing in a very complete sense, in which a little pinprick of energy containing all the mass and energy of the universe appeared.
And that's possible because there's a very strange feature about gravity, which is that gravity actually has negative energy in the proper scientific sense.
So if you add up all the gravity in the universe, of all the things pulling on each other, that gives you a negative energy which exactly balances out the mass energy, the E equals NC squared that Einstein taught us about, of all the particles and stars and planets and people and so on.
So it is possible, I mean virtually certain, that the total energy of the universe is zero.
So it's not a question of getting something from nothing, it's getting nothing out of nothing.
Okay?
So that's something that I go into in the book, but it's hard to explain in the middle of the second.
The one that's very popular now is the idea that there is some kind of an infinite sea, if you like, beyond our bubble, our expanding bubble universe, that there is a bigger, eternal cosmos, people sometimes say, just to have a different word, in which different bubbles go off at different places and different times.
Bubbles of energy, which turns into matter and so on.
And that removes the problem of the beginning by saying there never was one, that the cosmos, to use that word, has always existed.
That's very appropriate.
I mean, you mentioned at the top of the program that I worked with Fred Hoyle.
I don't know if people know that he died a couple of days ago.
And this was one of his ideas, the idea of an eternal, expanding, infinite universe within which what we call the Big Bang was just a local event.
So there are real possibilities that people investigate and probe.
But of course, we'll never, unless we build that time machine, we'll never be able to go to the Big Bang and see for sure which idea is correct.
Professor, again, I'm unable to grasp the concept that it has always been here.
Now, if it's always been here, we sort of understand, I think we understand, don't we, by measuring quasars, how quickly everything is moving away from everything else.
By now, if it's always been here, we should have long ago had nothing but black space about us, shouldn't we?
that's our universe appearing within the something that's always been there so then maybe we are nothing but a bubble inside a glass in so well Then you are talking beyond physics.
But that's where we get back to these ideas you mentioned earlier about different laws of physics.
Because if you've got a literally infinite universe in both time and space with no beginning and no end, then within that there are all possible bubble universes going off.
And there will be other universes with different laws of physics.
And then that's one answer to this question about why our universe should seem to be just right for life.
The idea is that there'll be many universes with different laws of physics.
And the only ones in which there's going to be people like us wondering about it are the ones where the laws are just right for people like us.
So it's then much less of a coincidence if you've got a choice of universes that we should exist in one that's a good one for life.
Well, okay, but if there are literally, to us at least, an infinite number of these universes, as there appear to be almost an infinite number of stars, suns in the night sky that have planets no doubt revolving around them, we're proving more and more, then whether we're talking about jumping across to another bubble or we're talking about going to some star system far away,
is it not almost inevitable that in both of these there would be life would be common?
Even if it was scarce, it would, in essence, be common.
If you've got, well, in our galaxy there are a couple of hundred billion stars and there are at least a couple of hundred billion galaxies and if only 1% of them, you know, which is scarce, have got life, then there's a lot of life by human standards.
Absolutely.
I think that's very much my view.
And I've written about that in my book Stardust, which I think we talked about a year ago.
I was on the program when it came out originally.
And the materials for life are very common in our galaxy, the raw materials in space, the complex chemicals that are the precursors to life.
And I think it's very, very likely that life is common in the universe.
But the big question is whether intelligent life is common.
And that's much harder to see because there do seem to have been a lot of a chain of events, a long chain of events, which led to us emerging as intelligent life.
And we've been around for, by the most generous estimate, a million years of intelligence on Earth.
And the life on Earth goes back nearly four billion years.
So if it takes all those billions of years of non-intelligent life before you've got intelligent life, then intelligence might be very rare indeed, even if life is common.
And I think the simple answer is that the numbers of talking about are so huge that even if the probability is very small, that adds up to a certainty that there is some other intelligence out there in the universe.
Well, if you believe, Professor, as you do, then would you say that your work supports SETI's continuing search for extraterrestrial intelligence, whether it be by radio, near the hydrogen frequency, or with the new light experiments?
The really exciting thing about the discoveries of planets that you've mentioned is that there are so many.
I mean, every time the technology improves, we find more planets.
And the latest ones, the discoveries that have been coming in in the past couple of months or so, are planetary systems that are much more like our solar system.
The first ones that were discovered had big planets bigger than Jupiter close to the stars, close to their parent suns, which are very different from our solar system, but they're the ones that were easy to find.
The techniques have improved, and we're now finding planets about the same size as Jupiter, orbiting about the same distance from their suns, but Jupiter orbits our sun, and in more or less circular orbits.
And that suggests that we've got planetary systems very much like our own, with big planets far Out and almost certainly small planets close in.
And I think the whole SETI program has received a huge boost from this.
And it's probably the most cost-effective science you can imagine doing because it's only got to work once, you know, and it just transforms everything about human society.
Is it not, Professor, almost inevitable, we've got a little time delay between here and England, almost inevitable that obviously we're seeing the big ones because as our technology improves, we see the big ones first.
But is it not almost inevitably probable I'm not sure that phrase works, inevitably probable, but certainly probable that there are smaller planets, ones very nearly the size of ours, and again, inevitably, at about a point from whatever sun they might be near, that would support conditions and climate similar to that which we have here on Earth.
And there's a very exciting proposal, which is very likely to get funded, I think, for a telescope to be put in space, which would be able to detect other Earths out to quite a reasonable distance.
So we may actually, within 20, 30 years, I mean, well within a human lifetime, we may actually be able to have images of these other planets, the size of the Earth, orbiting nearby stars.
And if you can do that, then it's a very simple trick using spectroscopy, you know, the different colours of light from different elements and so on.
It's a very simple trick to see if those planets have got carbon dioxide, water, vapor, oxygen in their atmospheres, which would be signs that there is life there.
So we could know in a very short time if there are planets with life elsewhere in the universe.
And from that, obviously, then the next step is to look for intelligence.
It's rather like the way I shied away from getting involved in the politics of global warming and climate change.
It needs experts to worry about this.
But there are experts, as I mentioned, psychologists, sociologists, there are people who do seriously consider these problems and what the effect would be, whether if a contact is made, it should be announced to the public straight away or somehow people should be prepared for it.
If, Professor, you were the one to, perhaps with others, make this discovery, you would have thrust upon you the responsibility of deciding what to do with that information.
My instinct would be to tell the world at once because I've got great faith in human nature and I think that although it's correct for people to worry about the problems, I think that people would rise to the occasion and it would be an uplifting experience for everybody to know that we're not alone in the same way that the pictures that came back from the Apollo missions showed us the Earth as a little oasis in space.
And that was a profound experience which was basically beneficial to humankind.
I think knowing we're not alone would be equally beneficial.
Sure, no, I was thinking in terms of making contact with life on a planet orbiting another star, not somebody sort of knocking on the back door of the solar system.
I think in that case, I would gladly hand over the responsibility to the government or the United Nations or whatever the appropriate body was to decide what to do next.
Well, there are many people who believe that these UFOs that are seen, these strange craft that our military roundly denies, and I suppose yours does too, because we do most stuff in lockstep, that really we are being visited and we've done some rather nasty things.
We've, frankly, some people believe, shot at these things, which wouldn't seem like the brilliant thing to do, would it?
I can imagine that, you know, an individual pilot of a fighter or something might get carried away and do such a thing.
But I don't think anybody is going to do that on purpose at the level that we're talking about.
And I think, you know, for good or bad, whether you think it's a good thing that we spend so much money on the military that we do, that we do have very efficient military systems with very efficient command structures.
And I think the kind of people who are trained to fly the kind of high-performance aircraft that would be involved in such encounters are disciplined enough to obey orders and to not shoot at people if it's likely to do more harm than good.
And I think that we have nothing to worry about in that sense.
Well, since you now have an opportunity to address those who would make that decision, should it occur, I wonder how you would advise them.
For example, by that I mean, wouldn't it seem likely that anybody or group or people who got here would have achieved interstellar travel, and so they would have technology, certainly in our lifetime anyway, that would so eclipse ours that if we did shoot at them and they were to shoot back, we would really hate what happened.
I'm sure that's true, but I think anybody who's got to the effort of making the travel, the distance across space and stars, is going to not be trigger happy.
They will have encountered what they would regard as primitive civilizations before.
They'll know how to set about these things and they won't be making that kind of mistake.
It doesn't make sense to imagine that people are going to come here, beings are going to come here bent on conquest.
The distances involved are too great.
The effort of traveling across space is too great.
What we would get would be some kind of scientific mission that would be interested in information and making contact and exchanging cultural ideas.
The people who argue that we may have been visited or are being visited by other beings who merely want to observe us and are perhaps waiting for us to, in a sense, grow up, you know, and stop being so trigger-happy ourselves before they're willing to make contact.
I think that's the strongest case of all the people who do believe that we have been visited already.
And then that would then be the strongest case for the ufologists who say, look, yes, one has not landed on the White House lawn, and it's not likely to because we are being observed.
So on occasion, when we really do see craft that cannot be explained, and certainly we know that a certain percentage of these sightings absolutely cannot be explained, that it's observation.
That's a pretty strong argument for their case, isn't it?
I lean towards the view that these events probably can, could be explained if we had a little more knowledge than we have.
After all, we've only been scientific society for a couple of hundred years, and there's a long way to go yet before we understand all the natural phenomena in the universe.
But I do agree it's a very good case, and I wouldn't be overwhelmingly surprised to be proved wrong on that point.
Well, we live in a very interesting time because we've just started to broadcast to the universe.
For about 50 years, we've been making TV spread out into the universe.
So in that sense, it would not be surprising.
I mean, I'm lucky to be alive at the time when that's happening, but in terms of human civilization and technology, now is exactly the time when you would expect to be visited if there are beings out there monitoring the Earth, because they've had 50 years to notice that we've reached the level of technology to produce signals that can travel through space.
You know, in his book, he describes, well, first of all, what he describes as the aliens is, you know, there's a really close resemblance to what we're seeing in that crop circle.
And also, he said that, you know, when the verdants, he calls them, are going to start making it known that they're out there, you know, they're going to start doing these things.
You know, they say big things, like big, impressive things.
And this could just be the beginning of it, you know, these huge, epic crop circles and then this picture of them.
You know, it just could be one of the first steps in there.
You know, I definitely believe in ghosts and this sort of thing, but I'm sorry to say, I think this one is definitely a fake.
You'll notice that the ghost figure, as it comes into focus and out of focus, all the rest of the little dots, pieces of dirt on the windshield, right, they come into focus too, and it stays in the exact same place in relationship to those dots as it moves across the road.
And I got a couple comments on the ghost as well as the face.
And you haven't mentioned Mars face yet, but we'll get into that in a second.
Okay.
With the ghost video, the gentleman before is spot on.
I'm a freelance photographer as well as videographer.
And I also do digital video editing.
And if you'll notice in this clip, the clip's duration is 10 seconds, 24 frames long.
And if you have a pen, you can drop this down.
At frame 26 is when the smudge on the window, which looks like just a bug spatter if you ask me, comes into direct clear focus and it stays focused until one second and nine frames and then goes back out of focus until eight seconds, three frames, stays in focus eight seconds, fifteen frames.
And it does this a couple times.
It actually does it four times.
And if you get yourself the QuickTime player or some other MPEG player and you still frames, you can see this.
The reason it appears to be crossing the road is if you'll notice, the camera stays fairly stationary, but it pans slightly to the left as the road is going up a curved drive.
So the natural single spot, which is staying still on the windshield, appears to cross because the car is turning.
No, what I'm saying is, if you didn't recognize it when you saw this video yourself as the object of interest versus the other ones, your mind must have said to you, gee, that auto-focused.
unidentified
Oh, absolutely.
It looks like it's pretty freaky, but being with the professional background that I have, I immediately picked up that it was a fluctuation of the autofocus.
In order to answer your question bluntly and that of others who didn't hear the follow-up to that, which we did have a couple of weeks ago, it simply hasn't panned out.
Linda Moulton Howe, I will tell you straight up, was one of the people in contact with this man.
And we got all kinds of excuses and hemming and hawing and everything else.
And we just don't...
Either after the broadcast, the man changed his mind, or he was full of it all the time.
And concerning the crop circles, I think it's part of the game where they're going to let people know slowly but surely, desensitizing their coming, getting people used to the idea.
Well, there's no way this is not some incredible quantum leap in all of this, if that's true.
I mean, it's saying, in effect, okay, here's what we look like.
unidentified
Yeah.
This is like the last chapters that are getting ready, you know, a little bit of a time now, this, and then there's going to be something even more magnificent after this.
But anyway, it was about 2.30 in the morning, and it was in November, and I had just first arrived at the hospital in September.
And anyway, I was working on the air conditioning on fourth floor.
It's kind of a floor that at that time wasn't used at all.
And if you've ever went up to this floor, you'd never really get a good feeling.
You can imagine a long hallway, sort of decrepit, the walls, not exactly painted well.
And of course, I came out of a mechanical room, and I was going to go back down to the third floor, which was third nursing, and tells them that, you know, I'd ask them if the temperature was right.
Well, anyway, I tried to get through these double doors on the opposite side of the hallway, thinking, before I go in the elevator or take a stairwell down, I'll, you know, try to check the opposite mechanical room.
Well, I turned the key, and I absolutely could see the key.
There's a lock open.
I'm nervous, so yes, I understand.
And yet, the door wouldn't open.
I couldn't pull it or push it.
So that's kind of strange.
So I went into the priest's office, and the priest's office was to my right, and I thought, well, gee, these old hospitals, they have vault doors and walkways and so forth.
Well, I couldn't find it in there.
So anyway, I opened the elevator, and I decided to go downstairs.
And standing in the far corner of the elevator was a man.
It looked like a priest.
And he was looking into the steel corner toward the direction I had came from, which would have been maybe about 100 feet away.
I didn't think anything of it at the time, but he looked like he was so surprised I opened the door and I thought, gee, I guess, well, there was somebody up here.
And, you know, so I walked into the elevator and the door closed.
And I wasn't really looking at his face.
I was kind of looking at his belt and his clothes.
And I asked him if he was administering to anyone up in the hospital.
And what came out of his voice was a hiss, just like a snake.
And I thought, gee, you know, and then I looked up into his eyes, and here he was.
He had his head shaved and his hair and so forth.
And yet he had no eyes.
I mean, they were black, just as black as you could ever imagine.
You know, I mean, is that alien dribble or is that a tongue?
I hope that's not a tongue.
unidentified
You know, that's weird.
That is weird down there.
But you know, it's too bad that there's not something that we can see like a tractor or something down there to get an indication how huge this thing is.
You know, if this is college students doing this, I wish they channel their energy into something productive rather than bashing down this poor guy's field.
That's a good point, but I don't think, sir, it's college students.
unidentified
It doesn't.
The more I look at it, I have to agree with you, it isn't.
Anyway, you know, I wanted to comment on that, but then on the way over, people were talking about ghost stories, and you didn't want to hear any more ghost stories.
Well, you know, first thing I ought to tell you, sir, is that a lot of people, well, not a lot, but some people are saying, this is not a crop circle at all.
It's baloney.
This is somebody's crocheting.
Well, it's not crocheting, folks.
It's a real crop circle, right, sir?
unidentified
Oh, yeah, no, absolutely.
It's clearly, you know, made out of, you know, cramped down grass or whatever.
Yeah.
It's an ingenious bit of work.
If it was faked, I mean, it's incredible.
It has to be just, I don't know how anyone could translate, you know, this into something this huge.
But in the small thumbnail version, it actually looks like sort of a, and I can't think of who it is, but like some female actress.
As a matter of fact, if you look at the right-hand side in general, and you just wait and see if Richard Hoagland doesn't jump on this one, the face on Mars, when you look at it, the Left-hand side is clear, right?
The right-hand side, at least as I have seen it, has erosion, geologic damage.
And this that we're seeing is so incredibly symmetrical, but if you look off to the right side of the nose and the right side of the eye, there would be what we could imagine to be erosion.
unidentified
Couldn't we?
Yeah, there's a possibility, sure.
I see it as shadows in this small thumbnail, you know.
It kind of gives it, you know, what's all the dots kind of come together like, you know.
Well, you know, it just seems like the likely natural or rather supernatural crop circles tend to have such wonderful geometric forms and just look so nice.
But this looks more down-to-earth, you know.
Like I say, it just looks like somebody figured out a way to take a photograph and translate it into a wheat field.
And unfortunately, I've asked her to send me her phone number, but unfortunately, she has had an exact duplicate of the experience the lady had, minus the ability to get the photograph.
And she had a battle of wills that she explained to me so articulately in a piece of email.
I'm going to try and get her on the air.
She won the battle and drove out the entity, but what an amazing story it was.
Well, I imagined, and it is solid science behind my imaginings, that we could create pretty much a mindless robot that would perhaps fulfill your every want and whim and need, in effect, being your servant.
Well, I have a feeling that if there is God, capital G. That what happened to the money changers would look like child's play compared to what would happen if we really did that.
Hey, there really is a God.
Oh, the things that could be done.
Have you considered that as you look around the world today and what you see may be just the beginning of that exact process?
I mean, there's at least a 50% probability even, that if contact were made, it would be made because we had finally done something we really should not be doing.
Like putting nuclear weapons in space.
You know they're not going to like that.
You just know they're not going to like that.
That's got to be bad, even for an alien.
Even if a nuclear weapon is, by comparison to what they may have, a matchstick, they're still not going to like it.
Because even if you're an alien, a thermonuclear device detonating near you probably has serious consequences.
If you look closely, the tracks that run that you see in most of these English fields where the crop circles are, they seem, rather than being recessed, to be protruding.
Well, there'd be only one thing you could do to a crop, sir, and that would be to trample it down or to knock it down with high voltage or microwave or whatever.
So.
unidentified
I was wondering if someone had been fiddling around with Photoshop with this thing.
I mean, this is so eerie and so bizarre that anybody's first reaction to this would be to believe that this was done in Photoshop or something like that.
In fact, most recently, I believe, in Montana, a whole state of them.
However, crop circles here tend not to be as complex by a long shot as those in Great Britain and elsewhere.
unidentified
Now, I've also heard, I don't know if this is just rumor or I don't know if I read it somewhere, but I've heard of them appearing in snow, like snow circles.
It's fair to say that nowhere in the world have they experienced crop circles as intricate and as impossible to believe that humans could have done them as in Great Britain.
Even though we know there have been some faked in Great Britain, I simply don't believe that, for example, this Wiltshire, the first Wiltshire crop circle, could possibly have been done by humans.
Not even remotely possible.
We know it was done overnight.
We know that it was raining overnight.
And all I ask is you go look at that picture, the one with 409 circles, and you tell me if you think it's possible, even remotely possible, that human beings could have done that with that sort of symmetrical accuracy and the magnitude of that.
And I cannot imagine a team of people that could maintain the kind of activ.
And also, by the way, I don't even know if it was said earlier, but if not, the entire area was examined for any footsteps or signs of human activity, and there was zip zero.
unidentified
Well, I'm looking forward to it.
I'm going to be near a computer on Saturday, so I'll be able to.
Oh, CNN, Headline News, was running a really long piece when it first happened, when they first got the video, and they did almost a 10-minute piece on it.
A video, an MPEG, of a ghost, it is said, by some, crossing the street.
You make up your own mind.
A picture of the new Wiltshire crop circle, 409 circles, and now, as of about three hours ago, three hours ago, a picture of a crop circle in Wiltshire that absolutely obviously has a face.
And the resemblance to the face on Mars unreal.
Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hi, Art.
Two quick things.
Did you get a chance to read about that event that NASA reported on August 16th where they read the radiation levels around the Earth at 1,000 times normal?