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Aug. 22, 2001 - Art Bell

02:53:13

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - John Gribbin - Science Topics. Linda Howe, Lucy Pringle - Crop Circles

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01:02:22

john gribbin

37:17

linda moulton howe

11:19

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 22nd, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be across the Great Cosmos.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody, and welcome to yet another new affiliate WBGB in Great Bend, Kansas, 1590 down the dial.
		In Great Bend, Kansas, glad to have you on board.
		Got a lot of information this hour, and I've got a couple of special guests for you this hour as well.
		Linda Bolton Howe and Lucy Pringle from Great Britain.
		From Hampshire, England.
		So, as a matter of fact, is she from Hampshire?
		I'm not sure.
		Anyway, she's from England.
		I know that for sure.
		And we've got her on the line, so they'll be coming up shortly.
		I've got several things that I want to get out to you very, very quickly.
		Number one, yes, obviously, the great Malingerer.
		Here I am back on the air once again.
		And here's what's happened.
		I'm going to give you the straight poop, as my two doctors have given it to me.
		And they gave me some pretty straight stuff, believe me.
unidentified		I couldn't stand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I couldn't sit.
		I couldn't lie down.
		It was, believe me, as awful as it gets.
		My back wasn't just out, it was toast.
		I mean, it was really, really honestly toast.
		And I thought I was toast too.
		And so I went to doctor number one, my local doctor, and he had an MRI done in Las Vegas.
		I actually had to go do it.
		Thank you very much.
		And the MRI came back and he said, basically, cutting through it all, he said, look, you can't sit anymore.
		I do not recommend under any circumstances whatsoever that you have an operation.
		He said, of those patients that I've had that have had operations, it's turned out more times than not or as many times as not poorly, with at least limited mobility on the good side and the possibility of paralysis on the bad side.
		So that wasn't too cool, as you can imagine.
		And here I am, again, unable to sit, stand, even lying down was nearly impossible in any position that you can imagine.
		So all of that didn't work.
unidentified		So what to do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I finally went to a specialist in Los Angeles, a sports injury type specialist doctor in Los Angeles.
		And the news there was awfully grim as well.
		He said, look, in the end, you've got two choices.
		One, you can live with it, which really obviously I can't.
		Or two, you can get a disc fusion operation.
		And that's a very serious operation, as those of you who have had it know.
		Those of you who have not, it's chancy at best.
		And again, the options are kind of like this.
		On the good side, you'll be able to walk again, but with limited mobility.
		On the bad side, you could end up paralyzed or whatever.
		So I decided, no operation, not going to do it.
		He gave me, as I left the door, a prescription for some anti-inflammatory drugs, which I am now taking.
		And lo and behold, they put me back on my feet, anti-inflammatory drug, and a very strong anti-inflammatory drug.
		And so the swelling went down because the only thing that ever helped me was ice.
		And so it figures that I had swelling, and the anti-inflammatory drug apparently is working.
		And so here I am tonight, thank God.
		And that's kind of the saga up to date.
		There's been a lot more, actually, but that's the long and short of it.
		I don't want to bore anybody to death with anybody else's illness, particularly mine.
		So I wanted to give you an update.
		There you have it.
		Poor choices and good luck so far with the drug.
		Now, there are two things that are going to blow you away on my website tonight.
		And I've been squirreling this one away.
		The first one is a ghost, folks.
		You have never in your life seen anything like this.
		It comes from Lord Ways, Nova Scotia.
		And the man's wife on vacation with a new video camera was taking pictures out of her car.
unidentified		You're not going to believe it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She, with a video camera, caught a ghost crossing the road.
		That's right.
		And we've turned it into, he turned it into for me an MPEG file.
		And ladies and gentlemen, on my website right now, there's an MPEG file.
		If you've got a computer, that's a moving video picture of a ghost crossing the street.
		It will flat blow your mind.
		It's all at artbell.com.
		A moving picture, first one I've ever had ever, of a ghost in movement crossing a street in front of a car.
		A video taken from Inside Car, it's a blowaway.
		We've got the email and the motion video on my website right now.
		That's item number one.
		Item number two, there has been, as you know, I'm sure, there's been a new crop circle in England.
		CNN ran an extensive story on it the other night.
		Really a great story.
		Thank you very much, CNN.
		And I went, oh my God, it's the biggest crop circle ever formed in the world.
		And we've got a photograph of that on my website right now as well.
		And so you're going to want to look at that as you listen to my guests tonight.
		I mean, this is just a flat blowaway.
		The biggest one ever formed, the greatest crop circle formed, was formed in Wiltshire.
		And we've got a link to it right now.
		It's just 409 circles.
		It's obviously fractal.
		It's obviously not in a million years done by human beings.
		And it's going to be the subject of this first hour tonight.
		So you're going to want to see that at artbell.com right now.
		We've got a high-resolution, even if you saw the CNN story, we've got a high-resolution aerial photograph of this mind-blowing crop circle.
		So that's a little bit of what we're up to tonight.
		all of that coming up if you'll stay right where you are Thank you.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 22, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coast to Coast AM All right, two oh my god items on my website.
		One is the picture of a ghost, a picture, the moving video of a ghost crossing the street in front of a car in Nova Scotia.
		It's a mind-blower.
		Believe me.
		The second is what's being called the Melk Hill Crop Circle Formation.
		And if you will go to, when you get to my website, just in case so you don't get jammed up, go to Program Tonight's Guest Info.
		And when you get there, just under Linda Moulton Howe's name, there will be a link that will take you directly to the Crop Circle Formation.
		So these are two absolutes on my website.
		Ladies and gentlemen from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, here is Linda Moulton Howe.
		Good evening, Linda.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Oh, all right.
		It's wonderful to hear that you're feeling better and that we have exciting news in this world.
		I want to start with a little introduction on Lucy Pringle.
		She is from Hampshire, England.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And she is author of an excellent book called Crop Circles, the Greatest Mystery of Modern Times.
		It is featured in the bookstore at my website, www.earthfiles.com.
		It is a beautiful book.
		And also, her beautiful new 2002 Crop Circle calendar is now available.
		And for more information about that, you can visit earthfiles.com.
		And the top story in my Real X-Files section is about this Milk Hill formation and my interviews with Lucy Pringle, with a German surveyor, and with a United States land surveyor who will make some comments from his professional point of view about this amazing formation in the second half of the program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was like last Tuesday, right, that it formed?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		It was found on the morning of Sunday, the 12th of August.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And you will be hearing from a German guy in the second half also about the fact that there was definitely no formation from a witness there on that Saturday afternoon going into the evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's very interesting, Lynn, because CNN reported it was a Tuesday.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, there was a lot of discrepancies about the discovery in the beginning, but now as things evolve and things become more clear, it is and was discovered on Sunday, August 12th.
		And Lucy, who has been flying over crop formations to take aerial photographs and to investigate the plants and soils of English crop formations since going back all the way to about 1989 when all of these patterns began evolving from simple circles and rings, she has been in hundreds of formations.
		But this one that was discovered in the Ron Reed wheat field on a high plateau of Milk Hill, Wiltshire on Sunday, August 12th overwhelmed her.
		And after measurements have been made in the last few days, the official count is 409 circles of varying sizes divided into six curved arms that are not fractals art.
		This is circle geometry, and you will hear comments about that from the German surveyor Andreas Mueller in the second half.
		These six curved arms stretch over 787 feet, that's 240 meters, from one side to the other.
		The largest central circle was 72 feet in diameter, and the smallest little circles that dotted along the large arms were no more than 40 inches in diameter.
		And Lucy, could you describe for the dreamland or the Coast audience your first impressions going into this amazing formation last week?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Lucy.
unidentified		Hello.
		Good morning, Art.
		It's quarter past six in Hampshire in England.
		Quarter past six in the morning at the moment.
		I'm delighted to hear that you're feeling so much better on those anti-inflammatives.
		Long may it continue and get better and better.
		Thank you.
		And Linda, good morning to you.
		Hi.
		Yes, my first impression, when I actually went in on the ground, I went in with a friend, Denny Clark, who also comes over.
		She comes over from America every year as a researcher.
		And she's been into many, many crop circles, just as I have.
		And we made our way up all the way up the Wandsdyke, which is a very, very steep slope.
		And it's quite a rutted road.
		And you get as far as you can, and you have to park your car.
		And then it's really quite a trek.
		You can't see anything at this point because the crop formation lies right at the top of a plateau, as Linda was saying.
		In fact, it is the highest point in the whole of Wiltshire.
		And then you get out of your car and you have really quite a trek along.
		And you suddenly find yourself going into this field.
		And as you go in, you look around you and everywhere you see is just nothing but circles.
		And it is the most extraordinary feeling.
		I'd never quite experienced anything like it.
		And we made our way in, further in, examining the circles as we went and we couldn't find the center.
		Where on earth was the center?
		And I'd flown over it before, so I had a very, very good idea of the general layout and the geometry and the shape and everything.
		But for the life of me, I simply couldn't find the center.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People don't understand that from the air you go, oh, there is a center.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But down on the ground in something this large, it's like a maze.
unidentified		It is absolutely just exactly like a maze.
		And there were people all the way.
		You wouldn't be able to see the perimeter at all if you didn't see people actually right on the perimeter.
		And then you couldn't see them all.
		You only saw them from about waist upwards.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Lucy Andreas emphasized that this is an undulating field.
		He was shocked to find how many ditches, rises, low parts.
		He said it was such a rough field for such an extraordinary formation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me, our photograph is higher resolution than CNN had, but what they did do is their video showed the depth of the circles because they flew in at a lower angle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And these circles are rather deep, aren't they?
unidentified		Well, the height of the crop is really at its greatest height that it's going to be this summer because it is very, very ripe.
		It won't grow any longer, won't grow any further or longer.
		I would say it's no more than about a meter, just over a meter.
		So that really gives you the depth, so to speak.
		But one woman who was very bright, she said she was on the perimeter and she'd seen my photograph and she said, right, there are 13 circles to every arm, 13 large circles to every arm.
		And she said, I'm going to go on this spiral and count around.
		Well, as she did so, she sort of disappeared from sight.
		And I thought, good Lord, where on earth has she gone?
		Eventually, she sort of jumped up and down in the distance and she shouted, I am in the center.
		So off we went and joined her in the center.
		But I mean, I've never experienced anything like that.
		It is the enormity and the obvious complexity and huge supercision is something that we've never seen before.
		And what is so absolutely fascinating is the worldwide interest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that may be because CNN, for example, was quoting this as the largest crop circle in the world's history.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do the two of you agree with that?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		It is in a sense of having the most circles art in terms of the diameter size.
		The Windmill Hill of 1996, the Triple Julia set, it was said to be 1,000 feet in diameter.
		Andreas Mueller thinks it was probably closer to 800 feet.
		This one is coming in at his measurement at 787.
		That would mean that the diameter on this one and Windmill Hill of 1996 might be very close.
		Nothing has had 409 circles.
unidentified		What was the closest?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Lucy, would it be the 194 circles in Windmill Hill in 1996?
unidentified		Yes.
		No, I think it wouldn't be.
		I think there was the lovely double helix that comes.
		That was in 1997, I think it was.
		Now that had 168 circles, I think.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, there was 194 in Windmill Hill.
unidentified		409 is by a long shot, the most numerous we've ever had, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is beautiful.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And it is not fractal.
		And we all assumed that it was.
		And now, as the people who are measuring things mathematically are getting into it, and you'll hear more in the second half hour, these are the arcs of circles, and there is symmetry in it.
		And one thing, Lucy, one of the rumors batting around in the United States is that this may have been made for this signs movie that Night Shimalian in the United States is working on on the East Coast.
unidentified		Now, that's very interesting because I've heard a great many rumors going around.
unidentified		I think once you get such an absolutely daunting circle as this one, you get people who want to jump on the bandwagon and destroy it as being man-made.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's examine that very quickly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lucy, is there any way, in your opinion, this was formed, I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, overnight, between, what, Saturday and Sunday, I guess, overnight.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		We estimate seven hours or seven hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that it was raining.
		It was spotted Sunday from the air.
		Do either one of you, let's just cut right to it, believe there's any way that man could have done this?
unidentified		No, personally, I don't.
		And I've got a denial from the circle makers who say that they were not the guy involved in the creation of Milk Hill Formation, nor were any of the circle makers with whom they are in contact.
		Now, they know all of them.
		But quite apart from that, one doesn't even need to have a denial because it just humanly would not be possible to create something so enormous and with that number of circles and with the precision which I think Andreas will be talking about later.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		He will.
		And Lucy, what did the farmer, Ron Reed, say to you about being paid for anything?
		Oh, nothing.
unidentified		No, no, he's absolutely denied that, and he's also denied that to Polly Carson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, CNN was saying, you two, that in order for a man to have made this, they would have had to make one circle every 30 seconds or something like that, which obviously is totally, completely impossible.
unidentified		And absolutely correct, yes.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And you will hear from the professional land surveyor that with the most sophisticated GPS satellite system to find the center points and the radiuses of these 409 circles, the most rapid that he thinks it could occur would be approximately every two, three minutes.
		And even at that, you are way beyond seven hours.
		And he said the most likely, though, is 45 minutes per circle.
		If that were the case with a GPS system, that would take days.
unidentified		What we know also, Art, is in the genuine formations, they occur between, in a time scale of between 4 and 7 seconds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		4 and 7 seconds.
unidentified		4 and 7 seconds.
		In my book, I've written up a couple of incidents where people quite independently have seen these things form.
		Now, when I was writing my book, I interviewed hundreds of people, and I had to discount most of the stories.
		But I was left with two, which I could not disprove in any way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I bet you've got three now.
		Lucy, we've got a break here at the bottom of the air.
		Everybody, hold on for a moment.
		This thing is astounding.
		It's astounding.
		And, you know, as she pointed out, it was like walking through a maze.
unidentified		There's no way anybody could have ever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or anybody's could have achieved this kind of symmetrical beauty and preciseness.
		There's no way.
		I mean, go look at the photograph for yourself.
		This and the ghosts are on my website right now at artbell.com.
		Two real louser-type things.
unidentified		This is Premier Networks.
		That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		on this somewhere in time
		the richie me me is the cross yeah yeah wow you get the place and that's it we can get wrong you can write it it
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 22nd, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The world has never seen anything like either one of the things that I've got tonight.
		One, a picture of a ghost crossing the road.
		And it's not just a picture, but motion video of a ghost crossing the road in Nova Scotia, along with the email that came with it.
		The gentleman and his wife who took it in Nova Scotia.
		It's a world's first, as far as I know.
		Item 2.
		Picture of the world's latest and most complex crop circle.
		409 circles.
		It is beautiful.
		All at my website right now at artbell.com.
		That's www.artbell.com.
		We'll get back to Linda Moulton Howe and my other guest all the way from England, Lucy Tringle, in just a moment.
		right where you are.
unidentified		you you you Thank you.
		Thank you.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 22, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music Back now to a couple of experts in the world on the world's most complex crop circle that you can see on my website right now, www.artbell.com, Linda Moltenhow.
		And from Great Britain, Lucy Pringle.
		You two are back on the air again.
		Have at it.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And Lucy Art was making an important point before the break about scientific evidence that crop formations are created really quite rapidly, maybe in less than 30 seconds.
		And this comes from both Lucy's work, biophysicist W.C. Leavengood's work in the United States.
		There have been several tests having to do with microwave energy and plants not being cooked that suggest whatever is happening is an energy system and that it's happening rapidly, which again is a whole different order of scientific evidence than people talking about dragging around ropes, strings, and boards.
unidentified		That's absolutely correct.
		What we do know is that when this force hits, there's an electrical discharge of probably some hundreds of thousands of volts per meter, just for a nanosecond.
		It is a very, very complex energy system that we're dealing with.
		And when the force hits, it softens the plants at the base, allowing them to fall, and then it travels up the stem of the plant, breaking down the molecular structure as it goes.
		But that doesn't explain the complexity of the formations.
		And in my opinion, there is an intelligence, there has to be an intelligence behind this phenomenon.
		And to me, it makes abundant sense how is he going to make these formations?
		Right.
		And he uses all the forces of nature available to it.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And Lucy, I really want to share with the coast audience these comments from this professional land surveyor and want you to hear it too.
		Yes, I'd like to hear that.
		And before we do that, could you please give listeners out your website where you have so many good photos?
unidentified		I would be delighted.
		It's H T P colon two forward slashes home H O M E dot Clara dot net forward slash Lucy Pringle L U C Y Pringle all one word and it's all lowercase and you'll see quite a lot of different pictures about this fantastic formation we're talking about.
		You'll see it in its own setting and with the hills and the surrounding countryside.
		It's just mind-blowing.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And you can see some of your photographs and make a direct link to your website by going also to EarthFiles.com to this top story in the Real X-Files section about tonight's interviews.
		And at the bottom of the report are hot links to Lucy's website.
		So with that, let's go on since there is such an immense size in this Milk Hill 2001 formation and these 409 circles, more than anything ever discovered like this in the world.
		I ask a professional land surveyor in the state of New Jersey to study photographs of this pattern and estimate how long it would take his survey team to mark out this formation.
unidentified		To stake something out like this in the field from a surveying perspective is probably going to take the better part of a day and a half to two days work.
		Because you've got 400 points.
		You'd have to lay out the radius point of every circle in that formation to get it perfectly symmetrical.
		And the office calculations that you'd need for something like that would probably take also the better part of a half a day with a computer.
		And the way that this would be laid out would probably be with this electronic distance meter and a data collector that would already have the coordinates of all the points stored into it.
		So that's how it would be laid out in the field.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And a two-man team working with those conditions with the most advanced surveying computer knowledge would take maybe up to two days in order to even lay it out.
unidentified		That's correct.
		It certainly would be a difficult task to lay this thing out and a costly one.
		I mean, in the United States here, survey crews generally run anywhere from $800 to $1,000 a day.
		And I showed this to a couple of my colleagues at work, and I said, yeah, it would be a big job.
		And also, I'm speaking of doing this work in the daytime.
		It would be very, very difficult to do this surveying work at nighttime.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Would it be almost impossible to lay this 409 circles out at night?
unidentified		It would be extremely difficult.
		You'd have to have some type of surveying equipment with an optical laser sight on board.
		That does exist, but it's pretty expensive, and most people aren't using it because it's not necessary for a lot of the current construction layout work.
		Another possibility would be laying it out with GPS equipment, global positioning.
		Once again, that's even more costly equipment, but that works by utilizing satellites to determine your position on Earth.
		And you would have to have the time to lay out this using satellite positioning.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Do you know how long it might take?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Could you just give an estimated guess of how long using GPS it would take to lay out that 409 circle formation?
unidentified		It would probably take, and I'm making kind of a guess here, probably with the very best equipment available, you might be able to lay out each point in about two to three minutes.
unidentified		And with some of the less expensive equipment, it would probably be about 45 minutes per point.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And you can do the math yourself.
		Take 409 circles times 45 minutes for the most common.
		And you're talking about way more time than seven hours between sunset and sunrise between the 11th and the 12th of August.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Besides that, Linda, look, anybody who looks at this knows that humans did not do this.
		they simply could not have uh...
		maintain this kind of uh...
		accuracy and complexity uh...
		the preciseness with which they did it without without an incredible team and even then i i don't believe no It's flawless, isn't it?
unidentified		If you look at those circles, and what's interesting, if you count out seven from the center, you'll find that on the seventh circle at the end, the two little outriders actually share their circle with another spiral going around as it tapers towards the end.
		Now that is absolutely precise on every single one of the arms.
		And to do something of that amazing exactitude is, well, I'm speechless.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Everybody who has ever measured and surveyed says the longest part of geometry, whether you are going to build a house on ground or in this case, bringing geometry onto the crops, the longest effort is laying out the centers of what it is that you are doing in the geometry.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And you've already heard now a land surveyor who has worked doing this for years say it would take really two days for them to simply find all of the points for 409 circles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, may I ask both of you a question?
		It is as follows.
		I really need, and everybody wants to know the answer to this.
		What in God's name has done this?
		I see only two possibilities, A, our military with satellites, or B, them.
		Anybody have any other guesses?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, Andreas, he has some interesting comments about this from the standpoint of a force of nature that has intelligence and consciousness that we really, we may have called various names as civilization has evolved, and that he is, and so is the teenager in Holland.
		They both have very similar perspectives that we are dealing with intelligence that is almost a hyper-force, a hyperintelligence behind nature.
		And that's the point of view of people who have spent a lot of time in these formations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would that be the Earth itself, Linda?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		No.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		I think from their perspective that there are other frequencies, other dimensions, that we don't understand all that there is in nature with a capital N. All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have another report, I believe.
unidentified		That's how I go along, too.
		I believe there is this consciousness in everything.
		There are degrees and levels of intelligence, just as there are degrees and levels of other dimensions, if you like.
		And I think the greatest mathematicians have all agreed that it would be absolutely impossible for us to be the only intelligence.
		But what is that intelligence?
		And yet it's unquantifiable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some sort of disincarnate intelligence, right?
unidentified		I would say it would be a disincarnate intelligence.
		It certainly isn't little green men that people like to put around.
		We've grown long beyond that.
		Just like to start with, the mass were primary school mass.
		Now they're university school maths.
		We've grown beyond that too in our understanding, I think, of this phenomenon and understanding of the energy that we're talking about, energy or intelligence, frequency, consciousness, whatever you like to call it.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Lucy, Andreas would agree with you 100%.
		Andreas Mueller is a crop circle researcher who has measured and drawn detailed diagrams of dozens of crop formations the past three years.
		He's from Saarbrücken, Germany.
		He had been in southern England traveling from formation to formation for about a month this summer of 2001.
		And Saturday night, August 11th, was his last night, ironically, and he and his friends left early the next morning for Germany.
		When he arrived at his home, he already had a message from England about the huge milk hill pattern discovered that same day, August 12th.
		He turned right around in his car and drove all the way back to England to experience it for himself and measure as much as he could.
		Here is Andreas Mueller.
unidentified		You look for symmetry and this is what we have in this formation.
		Of course, I didn't measure all 409 circles.
		It's 409 in total.
		By entering it, the only thing I can explain the idea you got, or I mean, the basic idea, you were surrounded by circles.
		This was unbelievable.
		I mean, you made a hundred, you made a 360-degree turn, and the circles were just all over you.
		And without an aerial picture, you simply would not know what's up there.
		The thing is, what was a very impressive detail of this formation, that it was placed in a field that was very sloping.
		There were many ditches and bumps in the field.
		And those ditches, for example, they were that deep.
		I was once standing in an outer circle of one of the arms, looking in the direction of the very center.
		And I saw some people who I thought they were sitting in a circle because their heads were just showing out of the standing crop.
		And when I approached them, I realized they were actually standing in a circle which was in the lowest part of the ditch.
		So you can imagine how bumpy the whole area was.
		And this was very impressive for me because those irregularities in the ground and in the topography did not cause any distortion or irregularity in the formation itself, which is basically a major problem for architecture because what they have to do if they made the foundation for a house,
		they have to create a flat and right angular platform where they can start on, or they have to do a very detailed topographical survey of the whole ground to be able to put down a building.
		And this is similar to, because architecture makes the same what crop circles do, they bring geometry on the ground, basically.
		And so some thing was able to avoid all these known problems by creating this amazing and the biggest formation we ever had, not the longest, but the biggest we ever had on such a hard terrain.
		And it is something one really has to experience in the field, you know.
		This sheer scale, this sheer large scale, it's mind-blowing.
		And to say it with an experienced human circuit maker's word who was baffled by and just kicked away by this formation, he said with his last words by giving a quote on this formation, he said, my brain hurts.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		This is a guy who has made crop formations who said to you about Milk Hill, this makes my brain hurt.
unidentified		Yeah, the basic thing I want to tell is that the night was covered with rain and people who were first in the formation say that the lay was nice and clean and with no footprints on it and everybody who knows what it is to walk in a wet field,
unidentified		I mean you know this from England, it's not possible to avoid that your feet and your shoes get clumpy with tons of earth and with mud and you spread this all over in the formation and nothing was there.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Are you at this point left with any sense inside yourself of what could be behind something like Milk Hill 2001?
unidentified		I think it is yeah, a good word that explains what I feel is it is consciousness and intelligence but not fixing those two uh words to two aliens from outer space.
		I see the consciousness and the intelligence even in nature but not in simple nature as we are used to experience it each day.
		It is some things hidden in nature.
		Probably it can be explained with hypernatural nature.
		I don't know.
		And probably I don't want to exclude aliens, but it's simply not what I personally feel the first time.
		I feel after all these years that we are facing a phenomenon that teaches us again the basic teachings on ourselves, on our environment, on nature.
		And so I see more hints for linking the phenomenon with a consciousness and intelligence which is in nature itself and close to the mind of God, so to speak?
		So to speak.
		But this brings crop circles in a religious aspect and I don't feel that the crop circles are for me something religious.
		I mean yeah I mean in the same way as I feel when I look at a flower and suddenly realize what a wonder it is, you know, what big and complex geometry it includes.
		And this is something we have to wonder again about.
		And I think this is also what the COP service teaches us.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And there you have it from a fellow that all of us have come to know.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		He has spent probably more time, wouldn't you say, Lucy, thank you.
unidentified		I would consider Andreas to be the leading surveyor.
		Yeah.
		He has done inestimable help and a terrific contribution towards recording this phenomenon most faithfully from the geometric point of view.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you two.
		We've got about a minute to wrap it up.
		The world's most complex crop circle just formed.
		We've got photographs.
		I agree with that man.
		To look at that and try and imagine that we did it, man did it, will make your brain hurt.
unidentified		And it is exciting about next summer, isn't it?
		It's always exciting.
		And no matter how we try and imagine what's going to happen, we're always several steps behind the phenomenon.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
unidentified		Yes.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And everybody keeps wanting more and bigger.
		And you know what I like about this, Lucy?
		It is back to the six-fold geometry, the sacred geometry, the sixes and the sevens of our most ancient and sacred knowledge.
		And that may be fundamental to whatever the intent is of this intelligence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do the two of you think this is an environmental warning?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's about all we've got time for, sort of a yes or no for both of you.
unidentified		Yeah, I think if it's trying to bring our awareness into the problems of our everyday life and our environment, I would say yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So both of you say yes.
		All right.
		Lyndon Moulton Howe, as always, thank you very much.
		Lucy Pringle, all the way from Great Britain, thank you.
unidentified		Thank you, Art.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And good night, all.
		All right, well, there you have it.
		Go take a look at the photograph.
		It'll make your brain hurt, I guarantee.
		That and the ghost going across the street, the impaired moving video that you have got to see at artbell.com.
		Both of them at artbell.com right now.
		They're both, oh my god, items, and we'll keep them there and keep telling you all about them tonight.
unidentified		The trip back in time continues, with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		more somewhere in time coming up There's no other thing.
		We'll go walking out while other sounds of what desire.
		We won't give it last volition We won't give it last volition Be it sight, sand, smell, or touch, there's something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of the touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak when you're deep in the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing, to lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing, all these things in our memories hold.
		And the you whisper to come to the body, Take this place, on this trip, just come on, yeah.
		Why, take a free ride?
		Take out this, how fast it seems, it's not free.
		I will put in the spring of the years, sweat so hard just to end my fears.
		I'm chewing my life, you know I like, but by now, by now, I shall not grow up.
		Premier Networks presents Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 22nd, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't care if you've got a crawl to a computer, make your way to a computer somehow and see what we've got tonight.
		It's a blowaway.
		I'm telling you right now, we've got two things.
		One, this man in Nova Scotia, his wife was taking some video with their new camera on vacation in Nova Scotia, and they caught a ghost.
		That's right, a ghost crossing the street.
		And we've got the MPEG moving video file you can download up there tonight, courtesy of this man in Nova Scotia, who I want to thank very much.
		And we've also got the world's most complex crop circle that just formed in Great Britain.
		By the way, we're going back to Great Britain in a moment to speak with Professor John Gribben.
		Not about crop circles, but about time travel and other delicious topics like that.
		So that's what's coming up immediately.
		However, I'm telling you, get to artbell.com.
		That's artbell.com.
		And actually sample both of those things.
		Download the moving video.
		It's a classic.
		I've never in my life seen moving video of a ghost before.
		And the second item, of course, the world's most complex crop circle.
		There's a lot going on right now out there, and we're here to cover it all.
unidentified		Shhh!
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 22, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music All right, we're going all the way back to Great Britain now, back again to Great Britain.
		In fact, this is going to be the Invasion of the British Week, I think, tomorrow night as well.
		John Griven was born in 1946 in Maidstone, Kent.
		He studied physics at the University of Sussex, 1966, B.Sc.
		went on to complete an MSc in astronomy at the same university.
		1967 awarded with a very special merit award before moving to the Institute of Astronomy in Cambridge, then under the directorship of Fred Hoyle to work for his Ph.D. during this period he gained an Isaac Newton studentship for research on gravitational problems and the prestigious annual award of the Gravity Research Foundation in the United States, the only student and the first Englishman working in England ever to receive this award and so, so much more.
		He has written books, one about climate change, one called The Sixth Winter, In Search of Schroeder's Cat, In Search of the Double Helix, In Search of the Big Bang, In Search of the Edge of Time, Being Human.
		It just goes on and on and on and on, obviously a real heavyweight.
		And all the way from Great Britain, here is Professor.
		Professor Grimmon, welcome.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Thanks.
		It's nice to be with you.
		I've forgotten a lot of that stuff.
		It takes me back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does it?
		I hardly even know where to begin with you.
		You have written a book on climate change, and there are many of us, Professor, who believe that our climate is actually in the midst of that change right now.
		I wonder how you feel about it now.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm one of the ones who convinced is perhaps too strong a word in science.
		You always want absolute proof before you say something is established for certain.
		But I think there's overwhelming evidence, enough to convince a court of law, if you like, that human activities are changing the climate, and that's responsible for the warming that's been going on for the past few decades.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm rather curious, Professor.
		Here in America, there are many who, when they hear words like the ones you just spoke, actually get angry, and their anger comes from kind of a political place because they understand that in order to change, what you just said is now beyond any shadow of a doubt.
		There would have to be changes that would affect the political world out there, indeed affect all of us.
		Do you get the same sort of reception when you say that in England?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		It's much more acceptable, if you like.
		I think people have had longer to get used to the idea.
		My understanding from my travel and talking to people in the States is that over there you've felt as if these things didn't affect you, that technology can solve all problems, whereas in the rest of the world people have perhaps had less face to start with that we can solve all our problems that way.
		And so when we're told that there are problems that are arising and we've got to change our lifestyle to cope with them, it came as less of a shock.
		And it's certainly most of the people that I talk to, I mean, there's a general willingness to accept that there is a problem and something needs to be done.
		And of course the debate then is about what needs to be done and how quickly and how much we can spend on it and all those sorts of issues, but not on the underlying facts of the case, that something is happening and action does need to be taken.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, can you articulate the range of the change possible both on the hopeful side and on the other side as well?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Well this is something I haven't looked at for a long time.
		It's an area that I worked in about 10 years ago.
		And what happened was that I didn't stop being interested in it.
		I stopped working in it when the evidence became compelling because I was interested in the scientific side.
		And once it was clear that there is a problem there, then it becomes a political issue.
		And I could have spent my life becoming a politician and doing things in that area.
		But for various reasons, I chose not to.
		And so I haven't been closely involved in the subject for about 10 years or so.
		But I follow the figures that come out of people like the World Meteorological Organization
		the international climate people and it does seem that we're talking about a possible range of increases in temperature during the present century of perhaps up to about five degrees Celsius which would be a bad worst case scenario and even if things go well then temperatures will rise and weather patterns will change but not so drastically.
		If things don't go so well and we get a five degrees Celsius change people say wow it's not much so so why it's not much if you compare summer to winter and even day to day you can get changes that sort of size.
		But what you have to do is to look at this as a long-term change in that the average over the whole year, every year, and compare it with things like the changes that warmed the world out of an ice age about 10,000 years ago.
		And just, I can't quite remember, I think the figure is about three degrees.
		The average rise in temperature worldwide that made the world change from an ice age to the conditions we live in now is certainly less than what we're talking about.
		So it's a very big change in terms of the world's natural processes, the ecology, the plants and animals and so on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is the likely practical result?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, what could the world expect if it experienced a 5 degrees Celsius change?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Well, you get changes of all kinds.
		I mean, some places will get drier, which is what gets a lot of publicity, new deserts and so on.
		Some places will get wetter, which in terms of rainfall, which obviously can be a good or a bad thing depending on where you start from.
		And of course, the rise in sea level that results partly from just the thermal expansion of the top layer of the oceans, it's warming up, so it's getting bigger, and partly from glaciers and ice caps melting, is going to have a dramatic effect on places around the world, from Bangladesh to Florida.
		And I think there's been some amusement in some quarters over here in Europe that Florida being the key state that got George W. Bush elected is likely to be the first part of America to suffer detrimental effects from his policy on climate change.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God's work.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Well, who knows?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		I think Jeff might have something to say about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There will be people living on islands around the world that I suppose will be with the fishes, right?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
		There are some small islands, particularly in the Pacific Ocean, where there are a lot of small islands which are only a meter or so above sea level.
		It's just going to disappear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, there's one, I believe, in the Pacific that is rather sinking at the moment.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, you've got two problems.
		Of course, some of these places are literally sinking because of geological processes.
		But what's happening as a result of this global warming is that the sea level is rising.
		And I should say, often when I talk to people who haven't got scientific background, global warming is a reality.
		That's something we can measure.
		The temperature is going up.
		And then this business about the greenhouse effect and human activities is where we say, well, how much of it's caused by human activities?
		How much of it's a natural process?
		And a lot of people think the words global warming mean that human activities are changing the climate.
		They're not synonymous.
		The world is warming up.
		How much of it is due to our activities, we can't quite be sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could mean, though, another ice age.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We don't know exactly what it's going to mean.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Well, all kinds of things could happen.
		One of the scenarios that concerns people in our part of the world, in Northwest Europe, is that we're kept warm by the Gulf Stream, which a current that flows up past Florida and sort of turns right at New York and comes across the Atlantic and brings warm water to our part of the world.
		And that brings warm air, which blows past and keeps us a lot warmer than Alaska and Canada, which is the kind of temperatures we ought to have.
		And it's possible that the changes in the amount of fresh water getting into that part of the world from the Arctic ocean smelt could change this current.
		And Europe could get colder while the rest of the world gets hotter.
		So there are all kinds of complications that we just can't calculate in detail yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you could, for example, experience big snowstorms.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely, yeah.
		I mean, anything that brings more moisture into the air is bad if you're in a cold part of the world.
		So while these changes are going on, obviously warmer water evaporates more, so you get more clouds, you get more rainfall or snowfall, whatever it might be.
		So you expect there to be extreme weather events in a warmer world and more hurricanes and they would extend further north up the Atlantic seaboard of the States, for example.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes.
		As a matter of fact, now I saw on the cable news network here that the meteorologists are beginning to actually for about the third time modify their opinion of how strong the hurricanes are going to be this year.
		They're really getting worried about because of the heat, the amount of heat in the Atlantic.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		I mean, hurricanes are driven entirely by warm water.
		That's why they only happen in the tropical regions.
		And they need a certain temperature to keep them going.
		And that's why they peter up.
		Obviously, if they go over land, they peter up because they run out of water to draw on.
		But even over the oceans, as they go away from the equator, where the water gets cooler, they fade away and they become only severe storms.
		They're still bad enough by human standards.
		So if the oceans are warmer, you're going to get more of these storms.
		They're going to be stronger and they're going to extend further away from the tropics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Professor, you sort of ducked out as this became political, obvious to you that it was underway and it became political and you have concentrated in the world of physics.
		There is no thing that I am personally more interested in in the whole world than time travel.
		I'm obsessed, actually, about the possibility of time travel.
		And I know that you've written about this, that you know something about it.
		And so the first question that I would ask you is, is, in your opinion, is time travel going to be allowed by the laws of physics as we know them now or as we imagine some of our theoretical physicists imagine they may be?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Well the short answer is yes.
		And there's nothing in the laws of physics as we understand them which prevents or forbids, if you like, time travel.
		Really?
		The long answer is that it will be very, very difficult and involve manipulating huge amounts of mass.
		I mean much more than the mass of our sun, for example.
		But it's one of the most exciting discoveries to theoretical physicists of the past 20 years or so is that there is nothing which prevents time travel according to the equations of physics as we understand them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nothing that prevents time travel.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		I mean it's not saying that time travel is definitely possible and it may be that we will discover a law which does prevent it later on.
		But it's the two areas of physics that came out of the 20th century, the two great discoveries, are the general theory of relativity from Einstein and quantum physics from a whole load of people who developed that.
		And those two theories, those two sets of mathematical equations seem to describe everything in the physical world that we've been able to probe with our experiments.
		And it's those two sets of equations that tell us that it's not impossible for certainly for particles to travel in what we call closed time-like loops.
		That means loops in time going back to where you start.
		And once you start talking about particles being able to do that, then it's natural for you and me and everyone else to speculate about human beings or spaceships or whatever doing that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you think, Professor, that travel in time forward would be equally possible with travel in time to the past?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Well, travel in time forward is easy.
		I mean, it's something that, in a naive sort of sense, we do.
		I mean, we move forward at 24 hours a day, you know, all the time without even trying.
		And it's something that is easy to do within the framework of the theory of relativity by traveling fast.
		If you travel close to the speed of light, then in a sense, time slows down for you.
		And so you get into the future quicker.
		And you could go on a journey in a spaceship and come back.
		And it would seem like a week had elapsed for you and maybe a month that elapsed on Earth.
		So you would have traveled into the future in that sense.
		Getting back has always been the hard problem.
		And that's what people are excited about and interested in, is the possibility of going back in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it would be, in your opinion, far more difficult technically to achieve going back.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		That's where you start talking about these huge concentrations of mass.
		And there are things I think you've probably had people like Michie Kaku talk about this on your program before, of these cosmic strings.
		That's right.
		Where you have tubes of material with fantastic energy density that distort space and time in their vicinity.
		And if they exist in the universe, as many people think they do, then they could act as a kind of natural time machine.
		And you could travel back in time by finding one of these objects and flying around it in a circle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you referring to the event horizon of a black hole or a wormhole?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		It's very similar.
		They affect space and time in a similar sort of way.
		But that's the other aspect is this idea that you could use a black hole as a gateway to a cosmic subway and travel through it and come out somewhere else, which, of course, Carl Sagan described very memorably in his novel and film Contact.
		That stuff in that science fiction movie is real science in the sense that it could happen according to the laws of physics, but it's as difficult.
		The analogy I always like to make is, you know, you go back to someone like Leonardo hundreds of years ago designing a helicopter.
		He could never make it fly.
		We're almost in the stage now where we can design a time machine, but it'll take the technology of hundreds of years in the future to make it work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, Contact the Movie is one of my favorite movies.
		I've watched it again and again.
		If you hear the little phone number bumper I've got in the beginning, you'll hear Want to Take a Ride.
		Well, I lifted that right from that movie, believe me.
		So that movie then, technically, was roughly, hypothetically accurate.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it was.
		I mean, there's a wonderful story about this, which if you're a fan of the movie, you probably know.
		But what happened when Carl Sagan was writing the book was he wanted to use this idea of traveling through this sort of cosmic subway space machine, if you like, to travel from one part of the universe to another.
		And he wanted to dress it up properly with some mathematical bits and pieces.
		And he's a planetary scientist.
		He didn't know much about the relativity.
		And he asked a friend of his, Kip Thorne, to work out some mumbo jumbo, you know, not real maths, to put in the book to disguise his lack of knowledge.
		And Kip went away and thought about this for a weekend or so.
		And he came back and he said, well, look, Carl, actually, this isn't mumbo jumbo, this is real.
		I mean, Einstein's equations say you really can travel through these tunnels in space.
		And then a little bit later, the penny dropped, and I think it was one of the students in Thorne's group who said, well, Einstein taught us that space and time are the same thing.
		And if you can have a tunnel through space, then you can have a tunnel through time as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		And that led to, well, I was going to say an explosion.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's actually about two dozen people, but it felt like an explosion of interest in the late 1980s, 1990s in the scientific community.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Professor.
		I've got to ask you to hold on for a moment.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		We'll be right back.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		This is Premier Network.
		That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		on this somewhere in time with a little girl in a Hollywood bungalow are you a lucky little lady in the city of
		night or did you learn a lost thing your city at night the city of night
		I can feel it coming in the air tonight.
		Oh, Lord.
		And I'm waiting for this moment for my life.
		Oh, Lord.
		Can you feel it coming in the air tonight?
		Hold up.
		Oh Lord.
		you you Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell somewhere in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remember, folks, at Artbell.com right now, a moving video of a ghost going across the street in Nova Scotia.
		No one's ever seen anything like it.
		And of course, the brand new crop circle in Great Britain, we'll have to ask Professor Griven if he's seen it.
		409 circles, made by man?
		I don't think so.
		I think it's proper to say you look at that.
		Stare at it for a while.
		We've got the photograph.
		As a matter of fact, go to my website.
		Under program, tonight's guest information under Linda Moltenhouse name you'll see a link to the picture.
		Just stare at it for a while.
		And tell me, if your head doesn't hurt, trying to imagine how that was done.
		I'm Art Bell.
		If you'll stay right there, there's much more to come.
unidentified		Now, we take you back to the past.
unidentified		on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Art Bell Somewhere in Time Now back to Professor John Gribben in Great Britain.
		Professor, it's way away from your field, but it just happened a week or so ago, this incredible Wiltshire crop circle, 409 circles.
		It just does not seem possible that a man could have done this, certainly overnight.
		Have you had an opportunity to see it yet?
		Any comments?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		I haven't seen that particular one.
		No, I try to keep an open mind on these things.
		I think human ingenuity is pretty high, and I would be surprised if there wasn't some way that people could make even something as complex as that.
		But I've at least a hint of a possibility, I think, that there is a natural phenomenon which produces some of them.
		I know for sure some of them are made by people.
		I know some of the people who make them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		But maybe they aren't.
		That doesn't mean they all are.
		It doesn't mean they all aren't.
		And in fact, although it's not in my area, I've used Crop Circles in a novel that I've written with David Compton, but it's not yet published.
		We haven't found a publisher for it.
		So maybe this will stir up interest and we get somebody to buy the book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it looks like most of your series is in search of something or another.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a working title on the new book?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		No, we want to get the word time in because it involves time travel as well.
		So we're thinking along the lines of time ways or something like that.
		But that's often the last thing to come when you're writing a novel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there, Professor, work going on that you are aware of now on time travel?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Well, there is in the sense that people sit down and work out with pencils and papers and computers how things might be done.
		I'm not aware of anybody who's trying to build a time machine, to put it in that sort of language.
		But there are people who work with changing time, if you like.
		You may have seen there have been some stories about slowing down light by passing it through various media and treating it in different ways.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but I'm told actually, Professor, that is almost a parlor trick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That even though on the one hand you do in effect slow down light, you really don't.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, that's a good way of putting it.
		I mean, a lot of these things start out like that.
		They are parlor tricks, if you like.
		But again, sort of making the analogy with flight.
		People built paper aeroplanes before they built real aeroplanes.
		So you go from the parlor tricks to doing something useful.
		And one that I always like is back in the middle of the 19th century, James Clerk Maxwell, who's a great scientist who worked with the colour theory of light.
		And he was a person who worked out that you could make colour photographs by taking three black and white images through three different coloured filters.
		And that was a parlor trick.
		He photographed a piece of tartan and demonstrated it in colour at the Royal Society in London and astonished everybody.
		And not much more than 100 years later, the space probes that visited Saturn were sending back pictures, color pictures of Saturn using exactly that parlor trick.
		So don't dismiss parlor tricks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, certainly not.
		So what about this?
		People say that if time travel is ever to be possible, and we all know how quickly technology is advancing, you know, the speed of processors doubling every 18 months, whatever it is, that if time travel is eventually going to be possible, it's easy to imagine it will be, then where, pray tell, are the time travelers?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		The simple answer is that you can't travel backwards in time, according to these same laws of physics that we've been talking about, to an earlier time than when the time machine was built.
		So if I was to build a time machine in my backyard tomorrow, I could, in principle, travel anywhere in the future, and I could come back to tomorrow.
		But I couldn't come back to today because the time machine didn't exist then.
		And that seems to be the simplest way around that puzzle.
		There are people who like to speculate about these things, and there are stranger ideas, like that perhaps time travel is possible, and the world is full of time travelers, and they're just hiding from us for some reason.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then from the very moment then that a time machine is invented that would go into the future, then from that moment we could expect to get visitors from the past.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		No, only from the future of the machine.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		The machine can't open up the past of the machine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then we would never experience the visitors, would we?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		No, what we need to do is to find a natural time machine, one of these cosmic strings or one of these wormholes, something like that.
		And if you find something that's been around for millions of years, then you can use that to go back to all those millions of years in the past.
		So there's a better prospect, perhaps, of developing space travel in the hope that we can then find a time machine and use that for time travel.
		And again, something that's been explored in many science fiction stories, rather than building our own and only being able to travel into the future, if you do think that that's not very exciting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's very exciting indeed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But once an individual got there, that individual could not come back short of finding.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		They could come back to the time when the machine was built, but they couldn't go back any further.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any further.
unidentified		Yeah.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		And of course, one of the interesting things about this is it means it would be almost impossible to keep something like that secret, because if you had a huge secret government project and you built the first time machine in some dark and secret place and didn't tell anybody, what that does is it opens up the future.
		So people in the future who've got better technology than us can then come back to the moment that time machine was built.
		So your dark and secret time experiment is successful in some underground laboratory in the middle of the Rockies, and immediately time travelers can come anywhere and come up to you in the street in New York and say hi.
		So you're not going to keep this project secret if it's a success.
		So that's a twist that I guess the government researchers ought to be aware of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, and certainly the government, as always, would have an intense interest in such a machine.
		What would be the practical applications you could imagine of being able to go to the future?
		And wouldn't it mess things up, kind of?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I think we have to turn to the writers of fiction to look at all the problems that could arise.
		And they're very similar to the problems of making contact with alien civilizations, which is a much more realistic prospect, certainly in our lifetimes.
		The culture shock, it's all very well imagining that you could make some kind of contact with the future, even if it's limited contact, and find out wonderful things and have new technology and stuff like that.
		But it would be an enormous culture shock, and it could destroy our civilization entirely, the way that some of the civilizations of the Pacific were destroyed by contact with what we call Western civilization.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I think most of these civilizations untouched or these groups untouched by modern civilization have, in fact, been destroyed by contact, haven't they?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I think it certainly was something that happened a great deal.
		And so it's something that's worth being aware of.
		And people, sociologists, psychologists and people do look into this from the point of view of what would happen if we got a message from another civilization in space, just the mere knowledge that we weren't alone.
		Would that be a huge religious experience for the world?
		Or would it destroy our faith in human ability if we use it with a superior technology?
		It's possible people might think, well, why bother?
		What's the point of inventing things if it's all been invented by somebody else?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's something I don't get.
		Let's assume that we were able to snatch knowledge, technical knowledge, from 500 years in the future, and it decimates us, decimates our society.
		We don't know how to handle it.
		We're not socially prepared for it, whatever it is that we could imagine.
		What would that do were we to destroy ourselves virtually to those who, 500 years in the future, who imparted that knowledge to us?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, you're right there in the realm of all the time travel paradoxes and the classic one working the other way around.
		If you go back in the past and you do something that leads to you not being born, then you can't go back in the past.
		And this is where the quantum physics comes into the serious science that's being done to investigate the possibility of time travel.
		Because the quantum physics allows for the possibility of there being more than one reality, that there are different versions of everything if you take it to the extreme.
		But in the simple case that when you have particles like electrons and they're given a choice of doing one thing or another, turning left or right when they come to a particular obstruction, then in some sense the world splits in two and you have one world in which it goes left and one in which it goes right.
		And the answer would be that the knowledge from the future that has changed us, has changed our future, but that it came from another future, if you like, the future next door.
		And there was a wonderful book called Time Scape, which is one word, so it's kind of a pun on Time Escape as well, by, I think it was Gregory Benford, which looks at this whole problem.
		And that's about a project where communication with the future is established, and it does change the world.
		And once the world is changed, the communication stops because that's no longer our future, it's somebody else's future.
		So there are ways around all these problems if you look at the laws of physics and you think hard enough about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Professor, the way it was explained to me by Professor Kaku was that at the instant, for example, that you killed your father or grandmother or whatever, there would in effect be a new universe, a new bubble.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There would be an entirely different stream of time and events.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		You can think of it, another analogy is like with the branches of a tree.
		And we're sort of traveling up the trunk of the tree, and at the time we're still in the trunk, then it's possible, if time travel is possible, to get communication from all the branches above us.
		But when you do something that makes a decision of the kind you're talking about, that's like turning off into a side branch.
		And once you do that, then there are still different possibilities as the branch sort of turns into little branches and twigs and so on.
		So you haven't sort of finally crystallized everything, but you've turned away from one particular path.
		And so that path is no longer open and you're heading in a different direction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Professor, then might it be possible or would there be any difference, delineation between time travel as we have discussed it and the possibility of either communicating with or moving to one of these alternative universes?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		No, I mean this is something that people, there's a guy called David Deutsch at the University of Oxford who looks at these kinds of possibilities.
		And if you can travel, if you like, sideways in time, then you could Move into these other universes, and you could experience them and perhaps come back or send communications back and get information.
		And there's a practical thing which sounds like the weirdest science fiction, but people are taking very seriously.
		It's a kind of computer which would exist in more than one reality at the same time because of quantum processes going on inside it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A quantum computer.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		A quantum computer, which would you build one processor in effect, and you get a vast number, I mean in principle, an infinite number of processors because the computers in all the parallel universes would be working on the same problem that you set to your computer.
		So they'd solve it very, very quickly, and you'd get the answer.
		And this is, I assure you, this is being taken seriously by people who understand the mathematics and the quantum physics much better than I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much farther do you suppose our technological ability will have to go to begin experimenting with something like a quantum computer?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's already happening in a very, very limited way.
		We're used to thinking of your home PC will have megabytes of memory in it, and people are doing experiments at the level of a few bits, not bytes, four bits or so.
		They're doing experiments to see if they can make this sort of thing work.
		And there are people I talk to who say that it could, within 20 years, they could have something working if the equations are correct.
		And of course, you don't need very many bits if you're going to have an infinite number of copies in an infinite number of parallel worlds.
		So that's all you need.
		And they are working on it now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just wait till our Bill Gates gets hold of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then, at that time, when a quantum computer became possible, would it be possible to have communication with these alternate universes?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the big question that nobody's yet been able to answer.
		I mean, I think it's something that will only be answered by doing the experiment and finding out.
		Because the rules of quantum physics seem to say that you can't communicate from one to the other, that you know they exist.
		You'd know they existed because the computer would be able to solve the problems and it would act as if it was a much more powerful computer.
		But that you can't actually transfer information.
		It's related to the famous uncertainty principle, which says that there's a limit to what knowledge you can have about the position of a particle and things like that.
		But people are always looking for ways round these rules, and who knows, it might be possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If it were possible to travel to one of these alternate universes, would we arrive at a place perhaps, for the most part, pretty much, you would imagine, similar to the one we're in now, except perhaps where events had unfolded in a different way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For example, Germany would have won World War II and we'd all be under Hitler's boot?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Those are possibilities, yes.
		I mean, the kind of feeling that people have is that it would be easiest to travel to similar places, if it's possible at all, and that similar places where there have been very small changes, maybe not even as extreme as the ones you're talking about.
		You'd do the experiment and travel, and you might find it very hard to tell the difference.
		The difference might be that a different team had won some football competition, and that was the only difference in the whole world.
		So it might be hard to tell whether your experiment has succeeded or not with limited abilities of this kind.
		But what you'd expect is there'd be a whole array of other worlds, if you like, getting more and more different the further you went and the harder it was to get to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about the possibility, Professor, that the laws of physics, as we know them in our world, would be not quite the laws of physics in the alternative universe you plop down into?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a dangerous line of questioning, because if the laws of physics are different, then the whole basis of your whatever you call it, your sideways time machine, might not work.
		So you might have designed something that works on our laws of physics and you get into another world and it didn't work anymore.
		And nobody would believe you'd come from another world because your machine didn't work.
		I'm not sure about that.
		There's another way of looking at all this business about the laws of physics and whether they could be different in some sense in other parts of the universe or in other universes.
		But I don't know of anybody who's seriously trying to deal with this kind of quantum effect and suggest that there are different laws in the world next door.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But to imagine, for example, you're plopped over there on the other side and you've got a machine.
		Imagine it like an automobile.
		You get over on the other side, you turn the key and you don't even hear the starter grinding or the internal combustion engine even beginning to work because internal combustion doesn't work.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		That's right, yeah.
		I mean, all these things, this is a whole other area that fascinates me, is why the laws of physics are the way they are.
		And there seem to be many, if you like, coincidences in the laws of physics that allow life to exist in the universe, which is obviously the most important thing to us.
		And if there were small differences in things like the laws on which electricity and magnetism operate, the strength of electricity and magnetism compared with things like gravity, then the world would be a very, very different place.
		And you wouldn't have the kind of chemical reactions that go on.
		You wouldn't have had the kind of nuclear reactions inside stars that made the elements that we're made of, and all of that.
		And so there is a very important question in science as to why the universe should have exactly the laws it does have.
		And I suppose from the purely sort of scientific, theoretical point of view, one of the main reasons for doing an experiment to communicate with the world next door in this quantum sense would be to find out if it was possible for different laws to exist and to produce intelligent life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or perhaps you would plop down in an alternative universe and you would land in one in which a human life never evolved.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, well, you might land in one where our form of life is impossible and so you drop dead.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it could be as drastic as that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if somebody were to develop such an ability to transfer, how would we ever know if it worked?
unidentified		That's a very, very big question.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		You only know if it works if you get something back.
		I mean, if somebody, you know, it's like H.G. Wells.
		I mean, H.G. Wells story the time machine.
		The character in there builds what he says is a time machine.
		And the story is told from the point of view of his guests, although obviously his first person story is there.
		And at the end of the story, he just disappears.
		Now, you know, the story is telling us that he's built a time machine and he's disappeared into the distant future.
		But we don't know.
		You know, people disappear.
		We don't know where they've gone.
		You've got to come back.
		That's the key to the whole thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Professor, top of the hour.
		I know we've only got you for 30 more minutes.
		You've got a big day tomorrow, so stay right where you are.
		We'll be right back.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		More somewhere in time coming up.
		The one in town of the Lord that he just found.
		And Marie's the name of his latest flame.
		He talked and talked and I heard him say that she had the longest, blackest hair.
		The pretty.
		The.
		She doesn't give you time to locks up your father's sense of which direction stops.
		With a hint of cheek to be a camp.
		Thank you.
		You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from August 22nd, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good lord, I just got a call from Keith Rowland.
		There's another crop circle in England.
		We just got the photograph near WHERWELL HAMPSHER.
		Folks, take a look on my website.
		We just got it up there about 10 minutes ago.
		And.
		It's a face.
		Let me repeat.
		This crop circle is a face in Hampshire.
		And uh.
		If you look carefully, it'll be obvious to you that it's definitely not a human face.
unidentified		She's the only one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As they say on CNN this Justin.
		I'm not kidding you.
		We've got a picture on my website right now along with everything else.
		It's not a human face.
		It's a gigantic, precise crop circle in Hampshire.
		But it is a face.
		Professor John Griffin will be right back.
		I'm Art Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with breaking news.
		Stay right there.
unidentified		Stay right there.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 22, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music Coming to us all the way from Great Britain is Professor John Gribben.
		And one of the books he wrote is called In Search of the Big Bang.
		And I want to take a moment and ask the professor, I've talked to so many people about this, and I have yet to be able to grasp the concept, Professor, that something apparently smaller than a cork, something we can just barely imagine the size of, became everything that is.
		All the stars, all the planets, all the space, all the dark matter, all the whatever it is that's out there, everything we can see and walk and touch and feel, was created in an instant, just boom, like that, from nothing.
		And I know that's kind of where most physicists sort of throw up their hands and say, we don't know.
		Do you know yet?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Well, we don't know in the sense that we have a definite answer to exactly what happened, but it's one of those examples of progress being made.
		When I was a student in the 60s, we were told you shouldn't even try to think about this kind of thing because it's beyond science.
		And now, nearly 40 years later, it's part of science in that people do try to think about it and they come up with ideas and models and theories about what could have caused that beginning of our universe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I'd just love to hear some of the leading contenders.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, the one is that it literally is something from nothing at all, and that you had this nothing in a very complete sense, in which a little pinprick of energy containing all the mass and energy of the universe appeared.
		And that's possible because there's a very strange feature about gravity, which is that gravity actually has negative energy in the proper scientific sense.
		So if you add up all the gravity in the universe, of all the things pulling on each other, that gives you a negative energy which exactly balances out the mass energy, the E equals NC squared that Einstein taught us about, of all the particles and stars and planets and people and so on.
		So it is possible, I mean virtually certain, that the total energy of the universe is zero.
		So it's not a question of getting something from nothing, it's getting nothing out of nothing.
		Okay?
		So that's something that I go into in the book, but it's hard to explain in the middle of the second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		that one will make your head hurt a little bit.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		But that's good.
		There's nothing in the universe at all.
		The one that's very popular now is the idea that there is some kind of an infinite sea, if you like, beyond our bubble, our expanding bubble universe, that there is a bigger, eternal cosmos, people sometimes say, just to have a different word, in which different bubbles go off at different places and different times.
		Bubbles of energy, which turns into matter and so on.
		And that removes the problem of the beginning by saying there never was one, that the cosmos, to use that word, has always existed.
		That's very appropriate.
		I mean, you mentioned at the top of the program that I worked with Fred Hoyle.
		I don't know if people know that he died a couple of days ago.
		And this was one of his ideas, the idea of an eternal, expanding, infinite universe within which what we call the Big Bang was just a local event.
		So there are real possibilities that people investigate and probe.
		But of course, we'll never, unless we build that time machine, we'll never be able to go to the Big Bang and see for sure which idea is correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, again, I'm unable to grasp the concept that it has always been here.
		Now, if it's always been here, we sort of understand, I think we understand, don't we, by measuring quasars, how quickly everything is moving away from everything else.
		By now, if it's always been here, we should have long ago had nothing but black space about us, shouldn't we?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		No, what we're saying is that there's a something that's always been here, but that our Big Bang is a bubble within that something.
		It's like if you have a bottle of fizzy drink, you know, and you unscrew the top and suddenly all the bubbles appear.
		I mean, it's in a sense, you know, the fizzy drink has been there forever.
		I mean, as long as it's been standing in your fridge anyway.
		And then the bubble appears and that's the Big Bang.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		that's our universe appearing within the something that's always been there so then maybe we are nothing but a bubble inside a glass in so well Then you are talking beyond physics.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		But that's where we get back to these ideas you mentioned earlier about different laws of physics.
		Because if you've got a literally infinite universe in both time and space with no beginning and no end, then within that there are all possible bubble universes going off.
		And there will be other universes with different laws of physics.
		And then that's one answer to this question about why our universe should seem to be just right for life.
		The idea is that there'll be many universes with different laws of physics.
		And the only ones in which there's going to be people like us wondering about it are the ones where the laws are just right for people like us.
		So it's then much less of a coincidence if you've got a choice of universes that we should exist in one that's a good one for life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, but if there are literally, to us at least, an infinite number of these universes, as there appear to be almost an infinite number of stars, suns in the night sky that have planets no doubt revolving around them, we're proving more and more, then whether we're talking about jumping across to another bubble or we're talking about going to some star system far away,
		is it not almost inevitable that in both of these there would be life would be common?
		Even if it was scarce, it would, in essence, be common.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.
		If you've got, well, in our galaxy there are a couple of hundred billion stars and there are at least a couple of hundred billion galaxies and if only 1% of them, you know, which is scarce, have got life, then there's a lot of life by human standards.
		Absolutely.
		I think that's very much my view.
		And I've written about that in my book Stardust, which I think we talked about a year ago.
		I was on the program when it came out originally.
		And the materials for life are very common in our galaxy, the raw materials in space, the complex chemicals that are the precursors to life.
		And I think it's very, very likely that life is common in the universe.
		But the big question is whether intelligent life is common.
		And that's much harder to see because there do seem to have been a lot of a chain of events, a long chain of events, which led to us emerging as intelligent life.
		And we've been around for, by the most generous estimate, a million years of intelligence on Earth.
		And the life on Earth goes back nearly four billion years.
		So if it takes all those billions of years of non-intelligent life before you've got intelligent life, then intelligence might be very rare indeed, even if life is common.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How probable is the hypothesis that there is no other intelligent life out there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People rarely talk about that probability, but along with everything else, it's got to have some probability, right?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		And I think the simple answer is that the numbers of talking about are so huge that even if the probability is very small, that adds up to a certainty that there is some other intelligence out there in the universe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you believe, Professor, as you do, then would you say that your work supports SETI's continuing search for extraterrestrial intelligence, whether it be by radio, near the hydrogen frequency, or with the new light experiments?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Very much so.
		The really exciting thing about the discoveries of planets that you've mentioned is that there are so many.
		I mean, every time the technology improves, we find more planets.
		And the latest ones, the discoveries that have been coming in in the past couple of months or so, are planetary systems that are much more like our solar system.
		The first ones that were discovered had big planets bigger than Jupiter close to the stars, close to their parent suns, which are very different from our solar system, but they're the ones that were easy to find.
		The techniques have improved, and we're now finding planets about the same size as Jupiter, orbiting about the same distance from their suns, but Jupiter orbits our sun, and in more or less circular orbits.
		And that suggests that we've got planetary systems very much like our own, with big planets far Out and almost certainly small planets close in.
		And I think the whole SETI program has received a huge boost from this.
		And it's probably the most cost-effective science you can imagine doing because it's only got to work once, you know, and it just transforms everything about human society.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it not, Professor, almost inevitable, we've got a little time delay between here and England, almost inevitable that obviously we're seeing the big ones because as our technology improves, we see the big ones first.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Comets are hard to find.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But is it not almost inevitably probable I'm not sure that phrase works, inevitably probable, but certainly probable that there are smaller planets, ones very nearly the size of ours, and again, inevitably, at about a point from whatever sun they might be near, that would support conditions and climate similar to that which we have here on Earth.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I agree entirely.
		And there's a very exciting proposal, which is very likely to get funded, I think, for a telescope to be put in space, which would be able to detect other Earths out to quite a reasonable distance.
		So we may actually, within 20, 30 years, I mean, well within a human lifetime, we may actually be able to have images of these other planets, the size of the Earth, orbiting nearby stars.
		And if you can do that, then it's a very simple trick using spectroscopy, you know, the different colours of light from different elements and so on.
		It's a very simple trick to see if those planets have got carbon dioxide, water, vapor, oxygen in their atmospheres, which would be signs that there is life there.
		So we could know in a very short time if there are planets with life elsewhere in the universe.
		And from that, obviously, then the next step is to look for intelligence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you considered the impact on our world of contact?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Well, I personally sort of shy away from it.
		It's rather like the way I shied away from getting involved in the politics of global warming and climate change.
		It needs experts to worry about this.
		But there are experts, as I mentioned, psychologists, sociologists, there are people who do seriously consider these problems and what the effect would be, whether if a contact is made, it should be announced to the public straight away or somehow people should be prepared for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If, Professor, you were the one to, perhaps with others, make this discovery, you would have thrust upon you the responsibility of deciding what to do with that information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would you do?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		My instinct would be to tell the world at once because I've got great faith in human nature and I think that although it's correct for people to worry about the problems, I think that people would rise to the occasion and it would be an uplifting experience for everybody to know that we're not alone in the same way that the pictures that came back from the Apollo missions showed us the Earth as a little oasis in space.
		And that was a profound experience which was basically beneficial to humankind.
		I think knowing we're not alone would be equally beneficial.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess it would depend.
		If what we found was 100 light years away, I think people could handle that news.
		If what we found was, for example, much closer, let's say we detected a spacecraft on the way or something like that.
		That would be a bit of a different sort of thing to break to the public, wouldn't it?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Sure, no, I was thinking in terms of making contact with life on a planet orbiting another star, not somebody sort of knocking on the back door of the solar system.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		I think in that case, I would gladly hand over the responsibility to the government or the United Nations or whatever the appropriate body was to decide what to do next.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you'd be comfortable that as you handed it over to the government or the UN, they'd handle it just fine?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
		I mean, maybe I'm a naive optimist, but as I said, I've got pretty good faith in human nature.
		And I think that these kinds of bodies are run by people who are, to put at its worst, well-meaning.
		They're not going to go out there and try and do something evil and unpleasant with the information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are many people who believe that these UFOs that are seen, these strange craft that our military roundly denies, and I suppose yours does too, because we do most stuff in lockstep, that really we are being visited and we've done some rather nasty things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've, frankly, some people believe, shot at these things, which wouldn't seem like the brilliant thing to do, would it?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		No, it wouldn't.
		Something like that could happen by accident.
		I can imagine that, you know, an individual pilot of a fighter or something might get carried away and do such a thing.
		But I don't think anybody is going to do that on purpose at the level that we're talking about.
		And I think, you know, for good or bad, whether you think it's a good thing that we spend so much money on the military that we do, that we do have very efficient military systems with very efficient command structures.
		And I think the kind of people who are trained to fly the kind of high-performance aircraft that would be involved in such encounters are disciplined enough to obey orders and to not shoot at people if it's likely to do more harm than good.
		And I think that we have nothing to worry about in that sense.
		I don't believe there has been a contact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, since you now have an opportunity to address those who would make that decision, should it occur, I wonder how you would advise them.
		For example, by that I mean, wouldn't it seem likely that anybody or group or people who got here would have achieved interstellar travel, and so they would have technology, certainly in our lifetime anyway, that would so eclipse ours that if we did shoot at them and they were to shoot back, we would really hate what happened.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure that's true, but I think anybody who's got to the effort of making the travel, the distance across space and stars, is going to not be trigger happy.
		They will have encountered what they would regard as primitive civilizations before.
		They'll know how to set about these things and they won't be making that kind of mistake.
		It doesn't make sense to imagine that people are going to come here, beings are going to come here bent on conquest.
		The distances involved are too great.
		The effort of traveling across space is too great.
		What we would get would be some kind of scientific mission that would be interested in information and making contact and exchanging cultural ideas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or perhaps only observation.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Or indeed.
		I mean, that's the most plausible case, I think.
		The people who argue that we may have been visited or are being visited by other beings who merely want to observe us and are perhaps waiting for us to, in a sense, grow up, you know, and stop being so trigger-happy ourselves before they're willing to make contact.
		I think that's the strongest case of all the people who do believe that we have been visited already.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then that would then be the strongest case for the ufologists who say, look, yes, one has not landed on the White House lawn, and it's not likely to because we are being observed.
		So on occasion, when we really do see craft that cannot be explained, and certainly we know that a certain percentage of these sightings absolutely cannot be explained, that it's observation.
		That's a pretty strong argument for their case, isn't it?
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		It's a very good case, yes.
		I mean, I don't go along with it myself.
		I lean towards the view that these events probably can, could be explained if we had a little more knowledge than we have.
		After all, we've only been scientific society for a couple of hundred years, and there's a long way to go yet before we understand all the natural phenomena in the universe.
		But I do agree it's a very good case, and I wouldn't be overwhelmingly surprised to be proved wrong on that point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you be overwhelmingly surprised that contact would occur during your lifetime?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In one way or the other, whether it be communication or physical contact.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Well, we live in a very interesting time because we've just started to broadcast to the universe.
		For about 50 years, we've been making TV spread out into the universe.
		So in that sense, it would not be surprising.
		I mean, I'm lucky to be alive at the time when that's happening, but in terms of human civilization and technology, now is exactly the time when you would expect to be visited if there are beings out there monitoring the Earth, because they've had 50 years to notice that we've reached the level of technology to produce signals that can travel through space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, we are at the end of our time.
		You promised an hour.
		Actually, I dragged you out to an hour and a half.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have to get into work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got to do it again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, we've got to do it again.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		It'll be a pleasure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We'll be calling you.
		Thank you, Professor, and good night.
john gribbin ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a face in a crop circle on my website tonight.
		As of about an hour ago, we got it up there.
		If this isn't a face, I'll eat that crop circle.
		And I'm Art Bell, and this, of course, is Coast to Coast AM, Top of the Morning to you.
unidentified		You are listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 22nd, 2001.
		I can't survive.
		I can't stay alive without your love.
		Oh, baby, don't leave me this way.
		I can't expect I'm nothing.
		Don't leave me this way Baby, my heart is full of love and desire for you Now come down and...
		She's my soul and she knows I'd love to love her You let me down every time.
		She's no one's lover tonight with me.
		She'll be so inviting.
		I want her all for myself.
		Oh, temptation eyes.
		Looking through my, my, my.
		Oh, temptation eyes.
		You gotta love me.
		Gotta love me tonight.
		Gotta love me, baby, yeah.
		Well, our innocence is just a game.
		We're just the same.
		My head is spinning.
		She's got a way to keep me on her side.
		It's just a ride.
		Premier Networks presents Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 22nd, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this is a really holy crap kind of night.
		I'm not kidding you.
		With all we've had already, with the Wiltshire Crop Circle, the 409 Circle Circle, which will make your head hurt if you look at it for long.
		And now what's come about an hour ago?
		This came from the Crop Circle connector.
		And it'll just plain blow your mind.
		That's all I can tell you.
		Go to my website, artbell.com, under what's new.
		You will see Keith has added in the last hour or so yet another reported crop formation.
		And I'm telling you, folks, this one near Warewell, Hampshire, it's a face.
		It's a face.
		Just scroll down a little bit, put it on your screen, move away from the monitor a little bit, and it's obvious it's a face.
		I mean, it's obvious it's a face.
		It's symmetrical.
		Eyes, nose, mouth, and maybe even a tongue.
		I don't know what that is down there.
		God knows what that is.
		Anyway, it's a face, and so if you get back from your monitor, it's a face.
		It's a face even close up, frankly.
		And as you look at it, you go, that's not a human.
		That's not a human.
		Or if it is, it's not one I want to be.
		All right, stay right there.
		Open lines are ahead.
unidentified		Open lines are ahead.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from August 22nd, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music you know there are many things that i can bring to the table that uh...
		i really ought to hold for thanks and you know other shows because what's happening tonight is so unbelievable uh...
		these crop circles are Obviously, humans didn't do it.
		This second one is going to put chills down your spine.
		I really mean it, folks.
		It's about an hour and a half old now in terms of our receiving it.
		It came from the crop circle connector.
		It's on my website right now.
		It's a face.
		It's obviously a face, and it's not human.
		That's all I can say.
		It's not human.
		Listen, tomorrow night is going to be very interesting.
		I have never interviewed a bishop, and we are going to interview a bishop tomorrow night, the Right Reverend Sean Manchester.
		And he is a bishop in the old Catholic Church.
		He'll come to us tomorrow night from Britain.
		And this man is a little different, folks.
		A bishop, mind you, is a member of all kinds of prestigious organizations in Great Britain.
		And he's an exorcist.
		That's right, he's an exorcist.
		Even more, he is, brace yourself, a vampire hunter.
		I repeat, a vampire hunter.
		And now really brace yourself.
		He claims, this bishop claims, that he has killed, I repeat, killed a vampire.
		That's tomorrow night.
		In the second hour.
		But tonight, you know, I don't see any point in opening up any other topics.
		If there's a topic hotter than this right now, I sure as hell don't know what it is.
		We've got a crop circle just now appearing in England that is a face.
		It's on my website at artbell.com.
		Let's see what's on lines out there, shall we?
		Open lines.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How you doing?
		I'm doing okay, sir.
		Where are you?
unidentified		Right now, I'm driving through Lincoln, Nebraska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lincoln, Nebraska.
unidentified		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, what's up?
unidentified		I love your show.
		I listen to it every night.
		I just want to know, I don't know when I'm going to be able to get to a computer, but how long are you going to have that posted on your website?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My dear sir, if this is what I think it is, we'll leave it up there, if necessary, until hell freezes over.
unidentified		Ha ha, that sounds good, because I certainly want to get a look at it.
unidentified		You know, like I say, it just takes me a while to get to a computer, but I certainly appreciate the answer, and like I say, I enjoy your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
		I assure you it'll be there if it's what I think it is now.
		I don't know.
		I don't know if it is or not, but it sure looks like it to me.
		I mean, no, that's a face.
		And it's not a human face.
		It's about an hour and a half old, and crawl, make your way to a computer somehow.
		Artbell.com, breaking news on an early Thursday morning.
		Wildcardline, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, how are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing okay, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
unidentified		Pretty good.
unidentified		I'm calling from Boulder, Colorado.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I had two comments to make.
		One's on the crop circle first, and then I want to say something about the ghost video.
		I'm sure you remember Philip H. Krapp's book, The Contact Has Begun?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
unidentified		Yeah.
		You know, in his book, he describes, well, first of all, what he describes as the aliens is, you know, there's a really close resemblance to what we're seeing in that crop circle.
		And also, he said that, you know, when the verdants, he calls them, are going to start making it known that they're out there, you know, they're going to start doing these things.
		You know, they say big things, like big, impressive things.
		And this could just be the beginning of it, you know, these huge, epic crop circles and then this picture of them.
		You know, it just could be one of the first steps in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sir, let me stop you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you seen these new crop circles yet?
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
unidentified		I just took a look at them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let me call your attention to the second one.
		Is there any way, in your estimation, that that is not a face?
unidentified		Oh, yeah, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a face.
unidentified		Absolutely.
unidentified		And I'm just saying, you know, it looks kind of like what Philip Krapps described as what the verdants look like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, as a matter of fact, you're right, it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So getting a face like this, if you believe this line of reasoning, would be almost an immediate precursor to some kind of contact.
unidentified		Right, right.
		And he said it would happen slowly.
		It would start out little things and then get bigger and bigger and bigger and fast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but if this is real, it's a quantum leap.
unidentified		Oh, for sure, for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Can I say something about the ghost video?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, the ghost video, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go right.
unidentified		You know, I definitely believe in ghosts and this sort of thing, but I'm sorry to say, I think this one is definitely a fake.
unidentified		You'll notice that the ghost figure, as it comes into focus and out of focus, all the rest of the little dots, pieces of dirt on the windshield, right, they come into focus too, and it stays in the exact same place in relationship to those dots as it moves across the road.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
		Yes, I've heard that from others.
		But it sure does look like a sort of pseudo-human figure, doesn't it?
unidentified		It's true, true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's also The thing that impressed me was it seems to change density.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, it's almost translucent, but then at other times, it's almost a solid.
unidentified		But that's what I think is just an effect of the camera going in and out of focus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think so?
unidentified		That's exactly what happens to these other dots on the windshield, these little specks of dirt or whatever.
unidentified		So they kind of lose density.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it might be a human-like smudge on a windshield.
unidentified		That's what I think it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much.
		There's going to be a raging argument about that one, believe me.
		does appear to be a human figure.
		And it does appear to move from...
		If you were sitting in the car, it appears this thing comes out of the foliage on the right and crosses the road.
		It appears to float across the road and then come to the edge of and or disappear into foliage on the other side.
		But the thing that got me is it appears to change density as well.
		He explains that as a matter of focus of the camera.
		You never know.
		East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hey, Art, how you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I should say.
unidentified		This is Judge Calcon from New York City listening to you on WABC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		WABC 76.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		And I got a couple comments on the ghost as well as the face.
		And you haven't mentioned Mars face yet, but we'll get into that in a second.
		Okay.
		With the ghost video, the gentleman before is spot on.
		I'm a freelance photographer as well as videographer.
		And I also do digital video editing.
		And if you'll notice in this clip, the clip's duration is 10 seconds, 24 frames long.
		And if you have a pen, you can drop this down.
		At frame 26 is when the smudge on the window, which looks like just a bug spatter if you ask me, comes into direct clear focus and it stays focused until one second and nine frames and then goes back out of focus until eight seconds, three frames, stays in focus eight seconds, fifteen frames.
		And it does this a couple times.
		It actually does it four times.
		And if you get yourself the QuickTime player or some other MPEG player and you still frames, you can see this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're what we call a pixel person, by the way.
unidentified		But that's all right.
		The reason it appears to be crossing the road is if you'll notice, the camera stays fairly stationary, but it pans slightly to the left as the road is going up a curved drive.
		So the natural single spot, which is staying still on the windshield, appears to cross because the car is turning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, might I pose a question?
unidentified		Certainly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Since you thought that it looks like a bug splatter, I believe you said, how were you able to understand what it was that we're all talking about?
unidentified		What do you mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, if it didn't look like anything more than a bug spatter.
unidentified		Well, because the way that cameras use the autofocus is they use sort of either sewn on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, sir.
		No, no, sir.
		No, what I'm saying is, if you didn't recognize it when you saw this video yourself as the object of interest versus the other ones, your mind must have said to you, gee, that auto-focused.
unidentified		Oh, absolutely.
unidentified		It looks like it's pretty freaky, but being with the professional background that I have, I immediately picked up that it was a fluctuation of the autofocus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I appreciate the call.
		There will be, believe me, much debate about this.
		Much debate about this.
		It's pretty freaky, all right.
		On my international line, you are on the air.
		Top of the day to you.
		Where are you, please?
		Australia.
		Australia.
		Yes, sir.
		Welcome to the program.
unidentified		Is that a question about the Bigfoot that the guy found in Michigan?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		Well, that absolutely has not panned out.
		In order to answer your question bluntly and that of others who didn't hear the follow-up to that, which we did have a couple of weeks ago, it simply hasn't panned out.
		Linda Moulton Howe, I will tell you straight up, was one of the people in contact with this man.
		And we got all kinds of excuses and hemming and hawing and everything else.
		And we just don't...
		Either after the broadcast, the man changed his mind, or he was full of it all the time.
		We're not sure which.
		Could be either one, I suppose.
unidentified		But he had no trace of the samples or anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		None that he's been willing to turn over.
		I mean, he claimed, obviously, he claimed he had hair, you'll recall, and blood.
		He's either unwilling to turn them over or doesn't really have them.
		You can imagine either, I suppose.
unidentified		That's too bad.
unidentified		Well, thanks for your time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hope you're feeling better, Art.
		All right, thank you very much.
		Take care.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		Good morning.
		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm over here in Corona.
unidentified		I'm listening to Canex.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, if you're listening to Canex, that's not our affiliate there.
		That's a news station.
		You're listening to KFI, sir.
unidentified		Oh, I'm sorry.
		KFI.
		I'm a little nervous.
		First time I've ever gotten to talk to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's quite all right.
unidentified		And, you know, I'm glad you're better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Stiff upper lip.
		Keep die with your boots on.
		Yeah.
		And concerning the crop circles, I think it's part of the game where they're going to let people know slowly but surely, desensitizing their coming, getting people used to the idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you seen the new one?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The new crop circle?
unidentified		Yes, I have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you now?
		All right, then let me ask you two, sir.
		Is there any way in your mind that that is not a face?
unidentified		Very much so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very much so.
unidentified		And you know what I think the face is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe it's a human face?
unidentified		Well, I think somewhat.
unidentified		I think that might be universal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's like being a little bit pregnant.
		There's no somewhat in the sense that there are eyes and a nose and a mouth and then some god-awful thing.
		By the way, did you get a look at that?
		Does that look like a tongue to you or a horn?
		Or maybe an extraterrestrial goatee?
unidentified		That'd be interesting.
unidentified		But I don't think the grains are hairless.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but somewhat human is, I guess, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you saying then that it's somewhat human, but not fully human?
unidentified		No.
		But I think it's the way of getting people used to our rival to watch us.
		I believe they're going to soon reveal themselves to everybody.
		And this is getting everybody used to the idea of this for the past 10, 20 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's no way this is not some incredible quantum leap in all of this, if that's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's saying, in effect, okay, here's what we look like.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		This is like the last chapters that are getting ready, you know, a little bit of a time now, this, and then there's going to be something even more magnificent after this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like what?
unidentified		Who knows?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, what is going to outdo a face?
unidentified		Well, I'm not sure.
unidentified		A face in the sky?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean a sort of an identical projection in the sky for the entire world to see?
		Yeah, that would outdo it.
		That's it.
		That would outdo it.
unidentified		And another thing, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I think it all ties in with the Great Pyramid and Stonehenge, Atlantis.
unidentified		I think they're all little pieces of the puzzle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, the situation for mankind is about to change.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate your call, sir.
		Thank you.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Is this our bell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is indeed.
unidentified		All right, I have a story to tell you.
		My name is Daniel, and I'm in Santa Barbara.
		I can't believe I got through.
		You did, don't you?
		Anyway, it's a ghost story.
		I work in a hospital, and I worked the midnight shift from 11 until 7 in the morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is this a recent ghost story?
unidentified		It is one that happened in 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty recent.
		All right.
		What the heck?
		Go ahead.
unidentified		But anyway, it was about 2.30 in the morning, and it was in November, and I had just first arrived at the hospital in September.
		And anyway, I was working on the air conditioning on fourth floor.
		It's kind of a floor that at that time wasn't used at all.
		And if you've ever went up to this floor, you'd never really get a good feeling.
		You can imagine a long hallway, sort of decrepit, the walls, not exactly painted well.
		And of course, I came out of a mechanical room, and I was going to go back down to the third floor, which was third nursing, and tells them that, you know, I'd ask them if the temperature was right.
		Well, anyway, I tried to get through these double doors on the opposite side of the hallway, thinking, before I go in the elevator or take a stairwell down, I'll, you know, try to check the opposite mechanical room.
		Well, I turned the key, and I absolutely could see the key.
		There's a lock open.
		I'm nervous, so yes, I understand.
		And yet, the door wouldn't open.
		I couldn't pull it or push it.
		So that's kind of strange.
		So I went into the priest's office, and the priest's office was to my right, and I thought, well, gee, these old hospitals, they have vault doors and walkways and so forth.
		Well, I couldn't find it in there.
		So anyway, I opened the elevator, and I decided to go downstairs.
		And standing in the far corner of the elevator was a man.
		It looked like a priest.
		And he was looking into the steel corner toward the direction I had came from, which would have been maybe about 100 feet away.
		I didn't think anything of it at the time, but he looked like he was so surprised I opened the door and I thought, gee, I guess, well, there was somebody up here.
		And, you know, so I walked into the elevator and the door closed.
		And I wasn't really looking at his face.
		I was kind of looking at his belt and his clothes.
		And I asked him if he was administering to anyone up in the hospital.
		And what came out of his voice was a hiss, just like a snake.
		And I thought, gee, you know, and then I looked up into his eyes, and here he was.
		He had his head shaved and his hair and so forth.
		And yet he had no eyes.
		I mean, they were black, just as black as you could ever imagine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No eyes?
unidentified		Nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just black holes?
unidentified		Just black holes.
		And I looked for a little longer and I thought, God, there's got to be some iris or white.
		It was nothing, but there was like a shiny covering to his eye.
		And then I kind of noticed his lines on his face.
		You know, he looked like he was maybe about 52 to 56 years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And the skin color was a little off.
unidentified		You know, I was thinking, oh, Jesus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean off?
unidentified		Well, if you can imagine a little gray with some red in it.
unidentified		You know, I mean...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
unidentified		I can't tell you.
		I wasn't sure that this was a ghost or what.
		I've never seen one.
		And so I looked up at the numbers in the elevator, and he kind of moved over toward the controls on the opposite side of me.
		And I was standing.
		Now, mind you, I'm one foot away from this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We only got about 30 seconds.
unidentified		Okay.
		Anyway, I looked back into his eyes.
		He wasn't, there was absolutely no eyes.
		I said something humorous because I was nervous.
		I didn't want to let on.
		And then he smiled, and the bottom half of his jaw virtually justhinged.
		It sort of turned sideways.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
unidentified		His eyes were telling me to get the hell out of there immediately.
		And yet the bottom half of his jaw smiled in relation to what I was saying.
		So this thing was thinking.
		It was a real entity of some sort.
		And I can't tell you, but...
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate your calling.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And good night.
unidentified		You are listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 22nd, 2001.
		And what's wrong with that?
		I'd like to know,'cause here I go again.
		Hey life, look at me, I can see the real,'cause when you show me, took me out of my world, I won't lie.
		Suddenly I just woke up to a happening.
		When you find me, that you love the beach behind,'cause when you gotta turn the love and dance and care out, then you gotta beware of the happening.
		Oh, one day you're over, when you turn around, you find the world, you struggle down.
		It happened to me, and it can happen to you.
		I'm sure I had that door, I knew love took the door.
		It ran out of the world, it happened like, suddenly it just happened like.
		I saw my dreams torn apart, when I walked away from my heart.
		And when you lose a precious love you need to guide you up.
		And it happens inside you, and it will happen.
		I'm not a delight, you are the one in it.
		It's not a place, it's not a place, it's not a place.
		It's not a place, it's not a place.
		It happens you and me, and it can happen once.
		And then it happens.
		Somewhere in time with Art Bell continues courtesy of Premier Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me give specific instructions because I want some overseas calls right now.
		So here's the deal.
		You go to my website, artbell.com, where you can see all of these things that I've been talking about, everybody's been talking about tonight.
		And then you go to interact.
		You go, just click on interact and call in phone numbers.
		Call in phone numbers will take you to a list, an international list, if you just scroll down.
		And no matter where you are in the world, it's got a list of countries there.
		I think everything but France.
		Yeah, France is still not there.
		Come on, folks.
		Get France in there.
		So if you're in Germany, it gives you the code.
		You dial that code, and then you dial the number.
		So just check it.
		Whatever country you're in, we'd love to hear from you.
		It's a toll-free call.
		That's not emphasized enough.
		Toll-free, we pay for the call on this end.
		So you dial the code, and then you just dial 800-893-0903.
		I mean, we know there are people out there worldwide in Asia and Europe and South America we know are listening.
		So pick up the phone.
		It's a good morning to do it, as a matter of fact.
		Get off your duff and give us a call.
		Go get that code if you have to.
		Or alternately, you can try calling the AT ⁇ T operator.
		You know, call your operator and ask for the AT ⁇ T operator.
		And then have her call the international number.
		800-893-0903.
		And for you, wherever you are in the world, quite a gift.
		It'll be absolutely toll-free.
unidentified		let's hear from you.
		Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues, courtesy of Premier Networks.
		Music by Ben Thede All right, here we go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And to the international line, you are on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		Mexico.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mexico?
		Really?
		What part?
unidentified		Morelia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, where is that in Mexico?
unidentified		In between Guadalajara and Mexico City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		Way down.
		All right.
		Welcome to the program.
		Glad to have you.
unidentified		I just wanted to comment about the crop circle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And its resemblance to the face on Mars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pretty eerie, isn't it?
unidentified		Yeah, it is kind of strange.
		But I've always been a believer that possibly Sidonia and the face on Mars are remnants of ancient colonization by Atlantean space travelers.
		And possibly, maybe they're upon return, and maybe they're signifying that they're coming back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think Richard Hoagland's going to do when he sees this?
unidentified		I think he's going to freak.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think he's going to freak, too.
unidentified		I think he's going to freak.
unidentified		I think I about freaked out when I saw this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It hits you right between the eyes, doesn't it?
unidentified		It definitely does.
unidentified		Makes you think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are you doing down there, anyway?
unidentified		I'm studying language and philosophy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, boy, that's the way to do it, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You get down to where the ability to speak English fades a little bit, and you either speak the language or die.
unidentified		Yeah, this is the first time I spoke English in quite a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Glad to give you some practice, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait, wait, one more thing.
unidentified		Go ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you suppose that means?
unidentified		The crowd circle?
unidentified		The new one with the flip-flop face?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
unidentified		I think it means we're probably going to be getting some visitors.
unidentified		Not sure whether they'll be the returning Atlantians or maybe someone from another alien civilization.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But soon somebody is going to come and knock it.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for your call, sir, all the way from Mexico.
		Once again, let me emphasize, wherever you are in the world, it would be nice to hear from Asia and Europe.
		I think we heard from Australia earlier.
		It's really cool.
		You hear from all over the world.
		First go to artbell.com if you have not done so and look at these photographs.
		It'd be interesting to get some reaction from around the rest of the world, wouldn't it?
		There's a gentleman in Mexico.
		Remember that 800 number, it's total free for you wherever you are in the world.
		I know people are afraid of that.
unidentified		I'm not calling it.
unidentified		It's too expensive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It won't cost you a penny.
		Cost my network a lot.
		So dial 800-893-0903.
		Get your country code first on my website or just get hold of the AT ⁇ T operator and speak very kindly to her and maybe she'll make the call for you.
		First time caller line, you're on air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Stan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Stan.
unidentified		And I'm calling from Kingdom of Nye, Perump.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're in Prump?
unidentified		Yeah, I'm just down the road from you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's excellent.
unidentified		Welcome.
		I was coming home tonight.
		I work over in Las Vegas.
		I drive bus over there and listening, and boy, you got my attention on this computer thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I fired it up.
		And has anybody commented about over the right eye, it appears that it looks like it's got a couple of rings pierced in its eyebrow.
		Well, that's the first thing that caught my eye.
		You know, it does kind of look that way, doesn't it?
		It does, doesn't it?
		And when I walk away from the computer and look at it...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I mean, is that alien dribble or is that a tongue?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hope that's not a tongue.
unidentified		You know, that's weird.
		That is weird down there.
		But you know, it's too bad that there's not something that we can see like a tractor or something down there to get an indication how huge this thing is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think one indication of how huge it is is the farmer's lines.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For example, you can look at the other crop circle with 409 circles.
unidentified		See that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we know that's really big.
		Here, too, we can look at the lines of plowing.
		It's got to be pretty doggone big, sir.
unidentified		Oh, absolutely it is.
unidentified		You know, if this is college students doing this, I wish they channel their energy into something productive rather than bashing down this poor guy's field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good point, but I don't think, sir, it's college students.
unidentified		It doesn't.
		The more I look at it, I have to agree with you, it isn't.
		Anyway, you know, I wanted to comment on that, but then on the way over, people were talking about ghost stories, and you didn't want to hear any more ghost stories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, I love ghost stories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, so do I. Well, okay, but if you have one, hold it for me, because I'm doing a ghost-to-ghost.
unidentified		Great.
		That's what I want to do.
		The other thing was remote viewing that I wanted to comment to you about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fire away.
unidentified		And I have told my wife, you know, every night I come home, I listen to you.
unidentified		And thank God you're back on the radio again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		And I hope you're feeling better.
		I've had that pain before.
		Anyway, I had mentioned to Jennifer that I always listen to you about this remote view.
		She says, well, I always do that.
		And I says, what?
		She says, yes, it's easy.
		And I really didn't believe her, but yet things that she's told me in the past come true.
		So I said, well, okay, honey.
		She says, tomorrow when you go to work, just think about me.
		So I did.
		When I went to work, I thought about her.
		And all of a sudden, the number eight came to mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The number eight?
unidentified		The number eight.
		And I just kind of slept it off.
		And I was driving the bus up and down Las Vegas Boulevard.
		And that dog on number eight came back to me again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		So then later on in the evening, I started thinking about, well, when I get home, I kind of hope she's got that outfit on, you know.
		Yeah.
		And I didn't think anything of that, you know.
		And when I got home, she was up, and unfortunately, she didn't have the outfit on.
		And she says, well, and I says, okay, I'm going to write it down.
		I wrote the number 8 down, and she pointed on the counter.
		There was a piece of paper there, and some writing on it.
		I looked at it, and it had 5 slash 8.
		I had handed her my piece of paper, and she opened it up, and we both had a gleam in her eye.
		So definitely it does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I suppose you had a little stick figure with a nighty on, huh?
		Goodbye, sir.
		Thank you very much.
		I don't know if that's remote viewing or forceful, wishful thinking.
		You see, remote viewing is delineated from psychic ability by this very specific protocols that are used with remote viewing.
		So a lot of times when people call and they say, I've been doing that all my life, it's not exactly remote viewing.
		It doesn't mean they're not doing it.
		They are doing it.
		It's a psychic ability.
		But that is definitely delineated or should be from specific remote viewing of the various types, all based on very tight and very serious protocols.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Santa Rosa, California, listening to KS Arrow 1350, Sonoma County News, Weather and Talk Station.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the way to do a promo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Howdy.
unidentified		Thanks.
		So, yeah, I'm looking at the face.
		Now, on the Crop Circle Connector page itself, they have a little thumbnail lower down on the page, which makes it easier to see this.
		And it's just like, you know how, you know, on the newspaper and the black and white photos, they have the half-tone kind of for the photograph.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, first thing I ought to tell you, sir, is that a lot of people, well, not a lot, but some people are saying, this is not a crop circle at all.
		It's baloney.
		This is somebody's crocheting.
		Well, it's not crocheting, folks.
		It's a real crop circle, right, sir?
unidentified		Oh, yeah, no, absolutely.
		It's clearly, you know, made out of, you know, cramped down grass or whatever.
		Yeah.
		It's an ingenious bit of work.
		If it was faked, I mean, it's incredible.
		It has to be just, I don't know how anyone could translate, you know, this into something this huge.
		But in the small thumbnail version, it actually looks like sort of a, and I can't think of who it is, but like some female actress.
		I don't know.
		It's a woman's face kind of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Another victim of the Roche Octes.
		We're all going to think it looks like something or somebody or something like that that we know.
		So a rock singer?
unidentified		People, or actress?
		Yeah, I think it's kind of a spooky face because the eyes are so dark.
		But it's got, you know, there's even a shadow from the nose, it looks like, you know, on the right-hand side of the nose.
		Yes.
		And even the right-hand side of the chin, there's that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As a matter of fact, if you look at the right-hand side in general, and you just wait and see if Richard Hoagland doesn't jump on this one, the face on Mars, when you look at it, the Left-hand side is clear, right?
		The right-hand side, at least as I have seen it, has erosion, geologic damage.
		And this that we're seeing is so incredibly symmetrical, but if you look off to the right side of the nose and the right side of the eye, there would be what we could imagine to be erosion.
unidentified		Couldn't we?
		Yeah, there's a possibility, sure.
		I see it as shadows in this small thumbnail, you know.
		It kind of gives it, you know, what's all the dots kind of come together like, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, now that I look at it, it is shadowing.
		In other words, to the right of the eye and to the right of the nose to some smaller degree, there is a darker shadow.
		You'd call it a shadow, but I guess it would be...
		I don't know if that would be from...
		Absolutely eerie, isn't it?
unidentified		Oh, indeed.
		Yeah, it's incredible.
		It's phenomenal.
		Like I say, I mean, I'd almost wish it was created by humans because it's a phenomenal feat of art, really, in what's your best guess?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you say it's human-built or otherwise?
unidentified		Well, you know, it just seems like the likely natural or rather supernatural crop circles tend to have such wonderful geometric forms and just look so nice.
		But this looks more down-to-earth, you know.
		Like I say, it just looks like somebody figured out a way to take a photograph and translate it into a wheat field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate the call, and I understand the way you feel.
		This is going to scare a lot of people, and they're not going to want to imagine that this has been done by, quote, others.
		They're just not going to want to believe that at all.
		This is going to cause great controversy.
		East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		This is Rhonda from New Orleans, Louisiana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Rhonda.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I hope everything's going okay.
		We're just down here trying to dodge hurricanes.
		The reason I'm calling, it's not about the crop circles.
		I had talked to you before you went on vacation and before all the trouble you had and everything with your back.
		But anyway, about the little boy, the picture that was on your website with the black mask on the little boy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I must tell you, ma'am, I received an email from another lady who saw that same photograph.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And unfortunately, I've asked her to send me her phone number, but unfortunately, she has had an exact duplicate of the experience the lady had, minus the ability to get the photograph.
		And she had a battle of wills that she explained to me so articulately in a piece of email.
		I'm going to try and get her on the air.
		She won the battle and drove out the entity, but what an amazing story it was.
unidentified		Oh, that's wonderful.
unidentified		Because I was worried about that little boy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm still worried about that little boy.
		I wish I could tell you I had an update.
		I don't.
unidentified		Okay.
		Well, if you hear anything from the mother or anything, you know, at least let me know.
		Play something on the radio where I can at least, you know, thank you so much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you so much, and take care.
		And I have a feeling we're going to receive a number of other stories very much like that one.
		Anybody out there get the feeling things are changing here on earth?
		Radically changing?
		And that we are like the boiling frogs.
		Some of us feel it, some of us know it, but most of us just get warmer and don't notice.
		Rust of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		Hello.
		I'm really glad you're back on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am in, my name's Tammy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tammy.
unidentified		And I'm in Bellingham, Washington tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Tammy.
unidentified		Yes.
		Yes, I understand what you're talking about, that things are getting a little bit strange on the earth, you know.
		But what I wanted to talk about was the clone issue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's one of those strange things happening on Earth right now.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm not, I don't think that's real kosher, all right?
		And I had a thought about it.
		I was thinking about it the night you were talking about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I was thinking, you know, what if those clones, you know, it happened and a whole bunch of them got cloned of humans.
unidentified		And once they grew up, they all got together and turned on mankind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so it's not too hard to imagine that could happen.
unidentified		Because, like, you were talking about, you know, of clones being cloned of humans, and, you know, they could come into your home and be your maid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I imagined, and it is solid science behind my imaginings, that we could create pretty much a mindless robot that would perhaps fulfill your every want and whim and need, in effect, being your servant.
unidentified		Until it got evil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Until it got evil or old and died.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many people, Tammy, do you think would turn down the opportunity to have such a personal slave?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Being absolutely brutally honest here.
unidentified		In today's society?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, ma'am.
unidentified		85%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you really think so?
unidentified		Oh, sure.
unidentified		This is a very lazy society we're in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you mean 85% would accept?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I said, how many did you think would turn it down?
unidentified		Oh, turn it down?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said 15%, obviously.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So 85% of the people would take something like this.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
		Especially today.
		Because everybody's in such a big hurry to go out there and get that dollar, no matter how they've got to do it, their home is lacking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		So, gee, Tammy, it's not very hard then to imagine 85%, that would be a whole lot of clones.
		And you might want to know that most revolutions are accomplished by 5% or less of the general population at any given time.
unidentified		Well, that ain't good news.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Possibly not.
		That's right.
		And then there's another thing.
		You've got to imagine the clones would probably be cloned for, in many cases, virtues, things we would consider virtuous, like really strong bodies.
		Right?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps even improving on the human breed to some degree in some way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if we did that, then the chances are, if there was a war, we'd lose.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Right, we would lose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the world would go to clones.
unidentified		Are those clones going to be able to have babies next to the city?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And before you know it, Tammy, we'd be doing the dishes for the clones.
unidentified		That's a scary thought.
unidentified		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got to go.
		Good morning, everybody.
		It's a breaking news morning.
		Check out the prop circle on my website.
unidentified		This is Premier Networks.
		That was our Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		on this, Somewhere in Time.
		I know that you have, cause there's magic in my eyes.
		I can see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles.
		Oh yeah.
		If you think that I don't know about the little tricks you play.
		And never see you in deliberately pushing you right away.
		Well here's a broken view, you're gonna choke up.
		Hey!
		We know the street there's a lot in its place.
		You are listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 22nd, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The two new crop circles, one of which is a face, in my opinion.
		It's like a Roshak test, I suppose, but in my opinion, not a human face.
		You take a look for yourself on artbell.com.
		It's two hours old now.
		To us anyway, and it's not a human face.
		I don't think it is.
		A lot of people with a lot to say about what that means.
		The ghost video that we've got on the website that you can download and look at for yourself.
		I'm watching the kind of intriguing, the fast blast coming in.
		Some people think it's a drop of water or something.
		Others say absolutely real.
		Some people say the face is fake, that it's crocheted or something.
		Well, it's not.
		That's a real crop circle.
		Some guy says, my wife says it's crochet, so it has to be.
		Always believe the wife, or at least tell her you do.
		I'm Art Bell.
		You'll stay right there.
		We'll get into more of all of this breaking news in just a moment.
unidentified		Shhhhhh!
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 22, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music Back into the night of open lines.
		On the first time caller line, you're on the air.
		Cheerio.
		Hello, Art.
		Hi there.
unidentified		I have a question to ask you.
unidentified		I heard you talk several times over the air about seeing a V-shaped UFO.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Passed right over our heads, my wife and myself.
unidentified		Well, I saw one that was in a V-shape, and I was looking at it through a pair of binoculars, a 10 by 50 pair of binoculars.
		Only this thing stood up on its end.
		I mean, it looked like a pyramid in the sky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're kidding.
unidentified		No, and it had a light on each corner.
		And the lights, as I was watching it, the lights rotated.
		The top one went to the bottom right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And where did you see this?
unidentified		I saw it, well, where I live is about midway between Phoenix and Tucson.
		Right.
		And, you know, the funny thing about it, the thing was located, it positioned itself pretty close to a substation.
		You know, electrical substation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a lot of reports of that, of UFOs near electrical equipment, substations, nuclear facilities of varying sorts, including power plants.
unidentified		Yeah.
		But, you know, I saw, you know, when I first seen it, I thought it was maybe a drilling derrick or something.
		Because I've worked on drilling derricks in the past, and I used to hunt this.
		I hunted this area a lot.
		I mean, I was out there continuously.
		And I thought, you know, what the hell is this?
		You know, I thought somebody was putting something up in the area, you know, and some of my hunting territory was gone.
		So I took out a pair of binoculars, and I had my wife with me, and I had a friend with me.
		And I was looking at it probably from the distance of about, oh, maybe three-quarters of a mile to a mile away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And it looked pretty big.
		But the lights, like I say, the lights didn't just flash on from corner to corner.
		They actually moved from the top down to the right and then back to the top.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did it stay there, sir?
unidentified		yeah it stayed there and and and i wanted to take a real close look at it my wife Yeah, she didn't want me to go.
		And my buddy that was with me, he didn't want me to get any closer to it.
		If I would have been by myself, I might have been abducted by now because I'd have took a real close look.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you wouldn't have been making this call, right?
unidentified		And I probably not.
unidentified		Not in this manner of voice, anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		All right, sir.
		Thank you very much.
		I appreciate the call.
		Wild Carline, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Am I on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably.
unidentified		Hi.
		I'm calling in response to that one joke that you made about the guy who called and didn't know it was you about our time is coming to an end.
		I think that's right.
		I believe in that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think our time is coming to an end?
unidentified		Well, more or less in a different kind of way.
		I believe that humans are going to try and evolve ourselves artificially and have it called the Human Completion Project.
		I think we're going to try and evolve ourselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who would have the ego to call it the Human Completion Project?
		That begun by God is finished by the hand of man?
		Who would have that kind of ego?
unidentified		The government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or how about any scientist?
unidentified		True.
		But I have a thing.
		I mean, and then when that happened, I mean, I think it would be called the third impact.
		Because there were two major impacts that happened before this.
		There was the first one where God created earth, and then the second one where God created man.
		And then the third one would be where man tried to go against God and tried to create and try to complete its evolution artificially.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have a feeling that if there is God, capital G. That what happened to the money changers would look like child's play compared to what would happen if we really did that.
		Hey, there really is a God.
		Oh, the things that could be done.
		Have you considered that as you look around the world today and what you see may be just the beginning of that exact process?
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
unidentified		This is John from Ethridge, Tennessee.
		Hi, John.
		I was calling about the crop circles.
		Yes, sir.
		I think they're probably done by multi-dimensional beings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And do you think that that face represents the way these multi-dimensional beings probably work?
unidentified		Well, I haven't got to see it yet.
unidentified		I'm on guard duty right now, and I haven't had a computer with me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's why you sound so calm.
		If you'd already seen this, believe me, you'd be freaked out.
		High magnitude.
		No matter where you stand, closer or even farther away.
unidentified		Farther away, it gets worse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait till you see it.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And another thing, I wish we could hurry up and make contact because these people have, beings have probably examined us in every way possible.
		And me being parapletic for 19 years, I think they could probably do something for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe.
		Maybe you wouldn't like what you wish for, sir.
		I mean, there's at least a 50% probability even, that if contact were made, it would be made because we had finally done something we really should not be doing.
		Like putting nuclear weapons in space.
		You know they're not going to like that.
		You just know they're not going to like that.
		That's got to be bad, even for an alien.
		Even if a nuclear weapon is, by comparison to what they may have, a matchstick, they're still not going to like it.
		Because even if you're an alien, a thermonuclear device detonating near you probably has serious consequences.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, sir.
unidentified		I'm in Phoenix, Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I'm listening on, it's 550 on the dial.
unidentified		I'm not sure what their call letters are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		5-K-F-Y-I.
unidentified		That's it.
		I just wanted to, my question has to do with antennas.
		Okay.
		And I guess the way I want to put this to you is if I had an antenna that was omni-frequency and had limitless gain, would that be special?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it certainly would.
		If you mean it is resonant on all frequencies.
		Correct.
		That would indeed be revolutionary, yes, of course.
		It would be.
unidentified		Would you care to talk to somebody who's invented such an antenna?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course I would.
unidentified		I would love to get you two guys together.
unidentified		This guy is an elderly gentleman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First of all, I want one because I have other hams I compete with, and I would get one of these, of course, and put them in the dirt.
unidentified		He has one already.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then he's already putting people in the dirt.
unidentified		And yeah, I would love to get you two guys together and let you two have a conversation.
unidentified		How would I go about doing it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You would go about that by emailing me or writing to me or whichever you can accomplish.
		All righty.
		Which can you do?
unidentified		We could do either one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which would be best?
		Email is always best.
		My address is artbell at mindspring.com.
unidentified		I got that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
		I'll look for it then.
		And oh, yes.
		I mean, you're always trying to best the other guy by a few DB, right?
		So if you've got an antenna like that.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		This is Stan.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing all right, Stan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where art thou?
unidentified		I'm from West L.A., and I'm on Listening KFI.
unidentified		I'm on a cell phone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I can tell.
unidentified		And I've been listening to you since the dawn of the 90s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		First time I called.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Long time ago.
unidentified		One of your songs, Elvis' song.
		And the girl's name is Anne-Marie.
		And I heard Elvis sing it live at the International back in 1971.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's unlike any other song he did.
unidentified		It's great.
		It's great.
		Great show.
		I really like to listen to you very much.
		About the crop circles.
		I was at the Venice Boardwalk a couple weeks ago, and this girl had this t-shirt on, and it had these five aliens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She was actually wearing it?
unidentified		Yeah, so this was a cartoon-like of these aliens, and they all had lawnmowers, and they were cutting in a crop circle.
		I thought it was so funny.
		If I could get a copy of that, I'll send it out to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would appreciate that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm a lover of t-shirts, as you can see from looking at my webcam.
unidentified		When are you going to have the Ghost to Ghost again?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, let's think about that.
		This is now the 24th of August, right?
		And, of course, we'll have one on Halloween.
		However, I would say there is enough time between now and Halloween to do at least one ghost-to-ghost.
		In fact, really I should schedule it in the next couple of weeks.
		So I will arrange for that.
		First-time caller online, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I am in Oklahoma City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome.
unidentified		My name is Steve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Steve.
unidentified		I wanted to comment.
unidentified		I think the crop circle with the 104 circles is absolutely astounding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's not 104, sir.
		That's 409.
		Ah.
		409.
		Turn your radio off.
unidentified		I'll do that.
unidentified		I didn't realize it was loud enough for you to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can hear it no matter what.
unidentified		Completely down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's 409 circles, and it's just gigantic.
unidentified		It's amazing.
unidentified		Now, regarding the face, though, I wanted to point something out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
unidentified		If you look closely, the tracks that run that you see in most of these English fields where the crop circles are, they seem, rather than being recessed, to be protruding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Protruding.
unidentified		Yeah, if you look closely at the top of the circle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see what you're saying.
unidentified		And also, they seem to be woven into this pattern.
		The whole face, rather than being recessed into the grain, seems to be, what would be the word?
		It's relief rather than recessed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't get that.
		I do see where the lines appear to affect the face.
		Particularly two of them that are running right down the middle, almost through the nose.
unidentified		But the lines seem to be protruding from, they seem to be sticking out from the surface rather than like tracks would be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there'd be only one thing you could do to a crop, sir, and that would be to trample it down or to knock it down with high voltage or microwave or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So.
unidentified		I was wondering if someone had been fiddling around with Photoshop with this thing.
unidentified		I'm not trying to throw it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not completely fascinating.
		I think not.
		This came from the Crop Circle connector.
		So its location and the time, I think, are very precisely.
unidentified		Oh, but there are witnesses that have actually seen it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The connector has a wonderful reputation for accuracy.
unidentified		You know, if you will shrink this thing down to about 1 tenth or 11th its normal size, you see even more detail.
unidentified		It's really spooky then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate the call, sir.
		Thank you.
		I realize that would be the first.
		I mean, this is so eerie and so bizarre that anybody's first reaction to this would be to believe that this was done in Photoshop or something like that.
		No, no, no.
		Wildcard align, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes.
		Hi, this is Nathan.
		I'm calling from Minneapolis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Nathan.
unidentified		AM 1500 KSTP.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yes, I got a couple general questions.
		I'm wondering, and maybe this can be explained to me for other ignorant callers as well.
		Crop circles are limited.
		They're not obviously taking place in our country.
		Is that correct?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, that's not correct at all.
		What is fair to say, we've had many of them here.
		In fact, most recently, I believe, in Montana, a whole state of them.
		However, crop circles here tend not to be as complex by a long shot as those in Great Britain and elsewhere.
unidentified		Now, I've also heard, I don't know if this is just rumor or I don't know if I read it somewhere, but I've heard of them appearing in snow, like snow circles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They've even appeared in dirt.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But thank you very much.
		It's fair to say that nowhere in the world have they experienced crop circles as intricate and as impossible to believe that humans could have done them as in Great Britain.
		Even though we know there have been some faked in Great Britain, I simply don't believe that, for example, this Wiltshire, the first Wiltshire crop circle, could possibly have been done by humans.
		Not even remotely possible.
		We know it was done overnight.
		We know that it was raining overnight.
		And all I ask is you go look at that picture, the one with 409 circles, and you tell me if you think it's possible, even remotely possible, that human beings could have done that with that sort of symmetrical accuracy and the magnitude of that.
		And, you know, your head is going to hurt.
		You can't do it.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		All right.
		How are you doing tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wild night.
unidentified		This is Steve in Los Angeles listening to you on KFI.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		The cross circle you're talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		You were saying something about the size of it earlier, and I had heard the little brief piece that I saw said that it was estimated to be five acres.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which one are you referring to?
unidentified		The one in England, the one with the 400.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		409 circles, yes.
unidentified		That's correct.
unidentified		And it said that the larger circles were as big as 70 feet in diameter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, big.
unidentified		And the thing about that is You would need a small army of people to come in and do something like that overnight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People did not do this.
unidentified		No, there's no way.
		I mean, it's just too large.
		It's too huge for anyone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I cannot imagine a team of people that could maintain the kind of activ.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And also, by the way, I don't even know if it was said earlier, but if not, the entire area was examined for any footsteps or signs of human activity, and there was zip zero.
unidentified		Well, I'm looking forward to it.
unidentified		I'm going to be near a computer on Saturday, so I'll be able to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you haven't seen these yet?
unidentified		No, I just saw a very brief picture of it on television, and it was just a short piece.
		You couldn't even really get a good look at it.
		It was just, it was there, and it was gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, CNN, Headline News, was running a really long piece when it first happened, when they first got the video, and they did almost a 10-minute piece on it.
		Really?
		Yeah.
unidentified		Well, this was like a 30-second at the most.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But what you really have to see is the high-definition version that's on my website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As good as CNN's report was, oh, we've got a much better, if you've got a good computer and monitor, much better picture up there.
unidentified		Well, I'll look at that Saturday.
unidentified		I'm looking forward to seeing what it looks like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much.
		It's all at artbell.com.
		What's up there now?
		A video, an MPEG, of a ghost, it is said, by some, crossing the street.
		You make up your own mind.
		A picture of the new Wiltshire crop circle, 409 circles, and now, as of about three hours ago, three hours ago, a picture of a crop circle in Wiltshire that absolutely obviously has a face.
		And the resemblance to the face on Mars unreal.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		Two quick things.
		Did you get a chance to read about that event that NASA reported on August 16th where they read the radiation levels around the Earth at 1,000 times normal?
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is attributed, this is so unlikely, to an unbelievably large explosion on the other side of the sun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, how that could be affecting Earth and our radiation levels is unknown to science.
unidentified		And that's what they're admitting, too.
unidentified		And another thing, did you see that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, there's more to worry about, sir.
		Worry about this.
		Whatever it is over there on the other side of the sun is going to rotate toward Earth shortly.
unidentified		Yeah, in about eight days.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
unidentified		Did you see the ABC News article?
		I said about three times about those Turkish military jet fighters.
		It was ABC News article called Strange Skies.
		And this was like a couple weeks ago before you went through your back, when your back went out.
		And they were tailed for 30 minutes by UFOs.
		Yes.
		You see that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
unidentified		I just wanted to add in all the strangeness tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you managed to be up on my website?
unidentified		Yeah, I saw the 409.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but forget the 409, cool as that is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about the one above it, the one that just came in?
unidentified		With the face?
		Yeah.
		I'm in transit.
		I couldn't get it.
		I'm not by my computer now.
		I'll get it tomorrow.
		Don't worry.
		It looks like a lion's face.
		I'm going to fall off my chair.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's put it this way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It has definite feline characteristics to it.
unidentified		Oh, brother.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm telling you, Hoagland is going to just, he's going to flip.
		I'm going to call him tomorrow.
		I'll never now.
		Now that the news is so big, I'll never be the first to get to him.
		But I sure would love to be.
unidentified		Hey, because he's coming to San Jose soon.
unidentified		He's at the conference house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Richard, you just go up to my website.
		I want you to see something.
		I'd love to be the guy who just led him up there.
unidentified		With a camera, I'm going to look at his face.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, what would the other side of the line sound like?
		All right, sir.
		Thank you.
unidentified		Bye-bye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's it for tonight, folks.
		We've got to get out of here.
		We play this show for your friends during the day.
		Make sure and have them go to my website and take a look at all this.
		It's artbell.com.
		www.artbell.com.
		Well, I'm afraid time says that's all.
		So y'all have a good night from the high desert.

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