Aug. 23, 2001 - Art Bell
01:11:26
| 
| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| Listening last night, then listen to me now very carefully. | ||
| At about two hours into the program, of course, the program began with discussion of the incredible Wiltshire crop circle, the one with 409 circles in it, right? | ||
| Then at about midnight, I get a call from Keith Rowland who says, Art, oh my, there's a new one. | ||
| You've got to see it. | ||
| It's a face. | ||
| It's on my site. | ||
| It's on our site now. | ||
| So, a lot of you will have missed it. | ||
| Not too far from the other Wiltshire crop circle, there has appeared a face. | ||
| It's a crop circle of a face. | ||
| There can be no doubt about the fact that it is a face. | ||
| All I can suggest is make your way right away to artbell.com. | ||
| Oh, by the way, while you're there, check out my webcam picture of Yeti. | ||
| Our cat Yeti. | ||
| Anyway, when you get there, just simply go to What's New. | ||
| Oh, there's a headline up there now that I haven't seen before. | ||
| Art Bell Show inspires Majestic, the game Majestic. | ||
| There's an interview with the fellow who created Majestic, and he credits this program for giving him the inspiration. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's pretty cool. | |
| I've even heard I may be in Majestic somewhere. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't know. | |
| Anyway, if you look down, you'll see a third reported crop formation, then yet another reported crop formation. | ||
| Doesn't matter. | ||
| Go ahead and click on either one of those pages. | ||
| There's a brand new one that looks to me like it was done by American natives. | ||
| But the one that absolutely totaled everybody last night, two hours into the program, so I know a lot of you would have missed it, is the second one down. | ||
| Oh, my God. | ||
| It's a face. | ||
| It's clearly a face done in acres of crops. | ||
| It looks like macrame almost. | ||
| And everybody called last night and said, what do you think Richard will say about this? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Because, by God, it does look like the face on Mars. | |
| It really does look like the face on Mars. | ||
| But others say it looks like the shroud of Turin. | ||
| It's human, they say. | ||
| It's alien, they say. | ||
| It's got some feline characteristics, I say. | ||
| It's got a little geologic damage on the right side, I say. | ||
| But in a moment, we'll find out what Richard C. Hoagland has to say about it. | ||
| And that's, I think, what we all want to know. | ||
| And that's what's kind of then next hour. | ||
| A Catholic bishop from Great Britain will be my guest talking about, you're not going to believe this, vampires. | ||
| He has killed a vampire. | ||
| So all of that on tap tonight, all of that coming up directly. | ||
| Stay right where you are. | ||
| Now, one-time advisor to NASA, of course, a science advisor. | ||
| Height, Instrum Science Award winner. | ||
| He is the father, I guess, of the face on Mars. | ||
| He is eminently, in fact, demanded to be here tonight to comment on this incredible crop circle. | ||
| Oh my God, wait till you see it. | ||
| Call your friends. | ||
| It's the second one down on my website right now at artbell.com. | ||
| And Richard has a series of pictures for us tonight. | ||
| Some people said the face on Mars, obviously art. | ||
| Some said the Shroud of Turin, some said human, some said alien. | ||
| Everybody that I interviewed last night said the message was the same. | ||
| Whatever they thought the face was, they thought the message was the same. | ||
| Soon. | ||
| Soon. | ||
| The message is soon. | ||
| Here from New Mexico is Richard C. Hoagland. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Richard? | |
| Good evening, Art. | ||
| Hi there. | ||
| At your melodramatic best. | ||
| Well, listen, this is a pretty dramatic crop circle. | ||
| No matter what you think of it, this is dramatic stuff. | ||
| Well, the more I got into it today after having heard it last night and followed up, and as you said, you know, it is something that deserves careful study, and we've done a lot of studying today, and we've got some pretty intriguing links and dots to connect tonight. | ||
| Well, everybody would want to know, Richard, when you first went to my website, since you were listening to the program last night, right? | ||
| So when I started screaming and yelling, you went up to the website. | ||
| I'm sure you looked at it too. | ||
| Everybody would want to know what you thought when you saw it. | ||
| It does look like the face on Mars. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It did. | |
| Not totally. | ||
| I mean, there are people out there who threatened when I was going to be on tonight that they would puke if I brought up the face on Mars. | ||
| Well, I'm sorry, guys. | ||
| Go get a bucket, baby. | ||
| Go get a bucket, yes. | ||
| The reason it looks like the face on Mars is because it's very low resolution. | ||
| This was done in a very exquisitely interesting fashion. | ||
| You're looking at a canvas of crops. | ||
| I think this is... | ||
| Oh, Richard, first of all, everybody has been... | ||
| They think some lady macromade this thing. | ||
| Yep, no, this is woven crops. | ||
| This is woven wheat in August in central England. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| And the weaving and the pixel size of the little cells that make up the picture, like the dots in the newspaper picture, are specifically designed, obviously, to dismiss the idea that this was easily hoaxed. | ||
| Because if you or I were to go out in the field, you know, and try to start to do this, this thing is about 120 feet tall and maybe 75 feet wide. | ||
| It's got the same proportions, by the way, as our friend on Mars, roughly. | ||
| It has a left and right half. | ||
| The right half is a little different from the left half. | ||
| It's laid in a field at an angle to the tram lines. | ||
| Look, on the right-hand side, clearly, I see macrome erosion. | ||
| Well, yeah, the cell size is bigger, but this is a very artistic and sophisticated production. | ||
| And given that it appeared in one night, you know, and it's got this intricate multiple levels of complexity, this isn't just a bunch of simple circles in a field. | ||
| This is an Incredible. | ||
| There are probably, I haven't counted all of them, but there are probably upwards of 200 individual little cells that are woven in the wheat to make this thing. | ||
| And the size changes as you go from the right, which is the shadowed side, to the left, which is the sunlit side. | ||
| The sun is supposed to be shining from the left. | ||
| You can see a shadow of the nose on the right. | ||
| You can see these deep eye sockets that indicate to me that we have a massive eyebrow ridge, a primitive hominid. | ||
| Now, where have you heard me use that phrase before? | ||
| But to describe the left-hand side of our friend on Mars, right? | ||
| That's right, that's right. | ||
| So I'm looking at this and I'm saying, okay. | ||
| In fact, I can see the eyebrows. | ||
| You're right. | ||
| It thickens. | ||
| Heavy brows. | ||
| This is a primitive hominid. | ||
| It's not an alien. | ||
| It's not a gray. | ||
| It's none of those things. | ||
| This is us guys. | ||
| This is what we used to look like if you were to get one of these forensic anthropologists that works for the geographic. | ||
| I never looked like that. | ||
| You might have looked like that. | ||
| Ancient ancestors. | ||
| You would find, go to your National Geographic, you know, the last several years of issues where they've dealt with anthropological issues, and you will see this type of image staring back at you as representative of what we used to be. | ||
| So then you ask yourself, this is, by the way, the first time a face in this intricate manner has ever appeared at any of the, quote, crop circles at any time in the whole phenomenon going back to the 70s. | ||
| Absolutely ever. | ||
| Nobody's ever seen this in the world. | ||
| No, this is one of a kind. | ||
| It's, I'll remind everybody, 2001. | ||
| All right, and a friend of mine made some projections about things that might happen in 2001 that, you know, people might think about. | ||
| So I started off thinking, okay, let's assume for a moment this is real. | ||
| What would be the point? | ||
| And I think I would agree with your emailers, Art, that the point is kind of a heads-up. | ||
| No, it was a caller's last night. | ||
| I mean, everybody said the same thing. | ||
| I kept asking, what's the message? | ||
| It's a message. | ||
| They all said, soon. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| You know, no matter what they thought it was, whether it was a shroud of Turin or whether it was the face on Mars or whether it was an alien, soon. | ||
| It was a message. | ||
| Let us scroll down from where we have Hoagland images on your site. | ||
| Okay, we've got to redirect people a little bit. | ||
| In other words, go to my website, artbell.com, then go to program tonight's guest info, then down to Richard C. Hoagland's name right there at the top, actually. | ||
| And then simply click on New Crop Formation Images. | ||
| That's what Richard has put up tonight for us to look at. | ||
| Yeah, we've got seven images arrayed one through seven, top to bottom, and the one we've been discussing is the first image. | ||
| So you're now going to want to, when you get to that link, go down to image number two. | ||
| And this is where things for me about midday got really exciting. | ||
| Because what you see there is a wide-angle aerial shot taken in the last few days. | ||
| This, by the way, image appeared on August 19th, as near as we can find out. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Here you're referring to the face, right? | ||
| Well, the face image. | ||
| But what I didn't know until I saw this shot is that a few days earlier, around the 14th, there had been another image in the same field, a couple hundred feet away, and it's across the fence line from a very prestigious English Defense Department radio telescope facility. | ||
| Richard, that radio telescope in the picture is pointed straight up. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| Well, in other shots, you're going to see this point at different angles. | ||
| I mean, radio telescopes are usually parked straight up so the wind doesn't damage the bearings and all that. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| So we don't know when this was taken, except it was a few days, and we don't know what the research program was. | ||
| For a matter of scale, this is a 25-meter dish. | ||
| That's about 80 feet. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right? | |
| So now you're scale. | ||
| Since you're about the same distance from the crop circle, they're not really circles, they're glyphs. | ||
| You're about the same distance from the glyphs as you are from the telescope bowl, the dish. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| So just use your fingers and see how big the two glyphs in the field across the fence are. | ||
| Oh, very, very, very good point. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Oh, that's easy to do, sure. | ||
| That gives you the scale. | ||
| So we're dealing with hundreds of feet. | ||
| Now, the one, you can see the face up there, upside down. | ||
| Oh, indeed, yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Yes. | ||
| To the left and bottom, there's this, it looks like somebody's rug. | ||
| In fact, it was called the Persian rug for a while, for a couple of days. | ||
| I thought Native American when I saw it. | ||
| Well, somebody said Persian. | ||
| So now if you scroll down to image number three, this is a close-up of the Persian rug, which appeared around the 14th, about five days before the, quote, face. | ||
| We'll come back to the face. | ||
| Yeah, by Lucy Pringle, as a matter of fact. | ||
| I was taken by your guest last night, hanging out of a Cessna, I guess. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| Anyway, what's remarkable about this image is, as I looked at it, and I hadn't been to the web, haven't been to the enterprise conference where this is being vigorously discussed, hadn't been to any of the Crop Circle sites. | ||
| As I looked at this, I said, darn, this looks familiar. | ||
| I've seen this somewhere. | ||
| Really? | ||
| And yeah, and then it hit me that it looked like the Arecibo radio message that was sent from the giant Arecibo Radio Telescope in Puerto Rico in November of 1974. | ||
| Whoa, now back up, Richard. | ||
| What about this reminds you of that? | ||
| Just the layout, the fact that it was rectangular, that it had dots and dashes, it looked like it had digital stuff. | ||
| So then I went to the websites over in England, the Crop Circle Connector and others, and lo and behold, other people had figured this out. | ||
| And on image number four, you see our face image in the middle. | ||
| On the left is the Persian rug. | ||
| And on the right is Frank Drake and Carl Sagan's Arecibo message. | ||
| It was sent from the Arecibo Telescope toward the galactic globular cluster M13 in mid-November of 1974. | ||
| Yeah, that really sends chills down my spine. | ||
| Are you sure, Richard? | ||
| What? | ||
| Are you sure? | ||
| I mean, are you sure there's enough of a connection to be calling this? | ||
| Well, if you look at it, and we're not the only ones, this is all over the web tonight, all over the world. | ||
| People have spotted, and the anomalous in this country, you know, people like Mac Tunneys and Chris Joseph and many others have been commenting About this all evening, that it's a one-to-one correlation, except there are interesting differences, and the differences are where we have a stunning story. | ||
| All right, so let me now go down to image five because as I delve deeper into this, like about three or four in the afternoon, I found that exactly one year ago on this date, August 14th, 2000, another crop circle had appeared in the same field across from the right out there. | ||
| You see the radio dish? | ||
| Yep, yep. | ||
| Look at this extraordinary, highly geometric glyph that appeared. | ||
| Now, if you go back up to image number two, you see where the bend of the field is? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And go back down to image number five, it's in the same place as the message. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Now, if you go to image number four and you look at the very bottom of the arecibo message on the right, you'll see at the very bottom. | ||
| Richard, let me understand, let everybody understand. | ||
| Image four is very important to Richard's argument. | ||
| Oh, my God, I see it myself. | ||
| I clearly. | ||
| Oh, Richard. | ||
| The image on the right, you're telling me, is the arecibo message that was sent. | ||
| The image on the left is the crop circle? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| The image in the center. | ||
| Crop glyph. | ||
| It's not a circle. | ||
| Come on. | ||
| Well, okay. | ||
| I guess we can't avoid calling them that when they're in crops. | ||
| Crop glyph, then. | ||
| The image in the center? | ||
| Is the face that appears up in image number two, right a few hundred feet away. | ||
| I just can't say the other thing. | ||
| So, holy crap. | ||
| Richard, obviously. | ||
| It's going to get better. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| All right. | ||
| Look at the bottom of the Arecibo message. | ||
| Right. | ||
| The very thing at the bottom, that curved line with the little M, is the Arecibo telescope. | ||
| And the M is the way the signal bounces from the feed and is sent out into space. | ||
| It's a schematic drawing of how signals go from radio telescopes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| At the bottom of the glyph on the left. | ||
| But it's inverted. | ||
| Why is it inverted? | ||
| Or is that the top of the picture? | ||
| Yeah, that's the top of the picture. | ||
| And it depends on how Frank and Carl put this thing together, and then they beamed it sequentially. | ||
| So something had to be first and something had to be last. | ||
| All right? | ||
| So go now to the left to the glyph. | ||
| And notice in that space, there's a totally different thing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| That's where the big difference is. | ||
| That's the biggest difference. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| But if you look down at image number five, the mystery is resolved. | ||
| That glyph there is the glyph that appeared outside this telescope one year ago in the field. | ||
| So it's a recursive, redundant message. | ||
| All right, now go down, image number six. | ||
| This is now the detailed binary decoding. | ||
| Remember, this IRCA message was a series of ones and zeros sent in binary codes by our dear friends Carl and Frank out to M13. | ||
| It would take 26,000 light years to get there, 26,000 years, because that's as far away as M13 is. | ||
| And obviously, nobody's going to get the message for many, many years because it was only sent in 74. | ||
| So somebody, quote, intercepted the message, knew we had sent it. | ||
| Now, if you go through this decoding, if you look at image number six, on the right, you'll see a series of English subtitles. | ||
| Numbers 1 to 10, number labels, atomic numbers. | ||
| This is your code for decoding the message. | ||
| All right? | ||
| And if you look about midway down around where the little figure of the guy is in the middle, there's a little humanoid figure. | ||
| I see him, yeah. | ||
| Height of human compared to the size of the Arecibo dish. | ||
| Got it. | ||
| And then you've got above that the DNA double helix, number of nucleic acids, et cetera, et cetera. | ||
| And then there's a solar system thingy down underneath the little hominid figure. | ||
| Okay, if you go, well, let's go back up. | ||
| Let's go up to image number four and you look carefully at the glyph on the left, there are differences between what they sent from Arecibo and what came back in the field near Chilbolton five days ago. | ||
| And those differences, there are a number of people, Mac Tummies is one, and others who are working tonight on comparing the differences to see what, in fact, whoever sent this is trying to say. | ||
| But Richard, put simply, I think you have just proven to me that either one of two things, either somebody incredibly technical is driving these two guys with boards and chains, or we have just been answered. | ||
| Yeah, it could look very much like we've got an answer. | ||
| And what's very sophisticated about this is that it's differences in the DNA, differences in the sending solar system, differences in the figure. | ||
| Let me cluster on the figure. | ||
| We've got, what, 30 seconds to the bottom of the hour? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Look at the figure between the right and the left. | ||
| Let's go to the Arecibo message. | ||
| You see how it's Mr. Pinhead? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| Look at the figure on the left in the crop lift. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Bighead. | |
| It's Mr. Bighead. | ||
| Now, this, I think, is a very important point because in every Hollywood movie I've ever seen, including my friend Gene's, you know, the menagerie, the Star Trek, the won the awards, the intelligence of your aliens is measured by the size of their heads. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Listen, hold it right there, Richard. | ||
| We'll come back and talk about the size of heads in a moment. | ||
| Richard C. Hoagland is my guest. | ||
| Good morning, everybody. | ||
| Image four will cause little tingly feelings to go down your spine. | ||
| The right-hand image is the one we sent, the message we sent from Arecibo. | ||
| The left-hand, whatever it is, appeared in a crop circle a few days ago in England. | ||
| It would be an answer, wouldn't it? | ||
|
unidentified
|
It would be an answer, wouldn't it? | |
| Once again, Richard C. Hoagland. | ||
| Richard, welcome back. | ||
| Hi there. | ||
| I'm melodramatic. | ||
| I'm just laying out the facts, Jack. | ||
| I didn't make this stuff up, but if you're in England, 6,000 miles away. | ||
| Why England, Richard? | ||
| Well, that gets into Our thesis from the time I really got into the Mars business and looked at the face and all the linkages and everything is that there was a terrestrial connection. | ||
| And I've said on your show and many others that we now think after 20 years of doing this, we've been at this for two decades, that the Martians were us, that whatever Sidonia is trying to say, it's about the human species, about us. | ||
| And the latest picture from Malin, the dual half, you know, hominid, kiddie, you know, hominided face, that is again saying something provocative about us and our condition here on planet Earth. | ||
| Now we have a crop with two of them up here in a field right across from a very sophisticated radio facility which is dedicated to radio communication. | ||
| In fact, it is run by the Radio Communications Research Unit of Britain. | ||
| They're blowaway. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Which is as bound as right across the fence. | |
| I know. | ||
| I'd love to talk to these guys and say, did you guys see anything or anything? | ||
| I didn't see these pictures. | ||
| Were you out there at night doing something? | ||
| The one at the right with the small head. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| The arecibo message. | ||
| Mankind as we sent. | ||
| And that arecibo message went out when? | ||
| November 16th, I think, 1974. | ||
| 1974. | ||
| That was mid-November. | ||
| I don't know the exact date. | ||
| I don't remember the exact date. | ||
| But the left is this crop glyph, almost duplicating it, with a much bigger head. | ||
| So what I am saying, back to the connections, is that this is a message about us. | ||
| It's always been about us, everybody. | ||
| This is not about aliens. | ||
| It's about us, the hidden history of humankind. | ||
| And somehow we're a lot more interesting than we have given ourselves credit for being. | ||
| And somebody is now trying to point it out. | ||
| Now, there are other levels of this message that are pretty intriguing. | ||
| On the Arecibo message art, on the right. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| You've got the big telescope at the bottom. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| The telescope is kind of like the punctuation. | ||
| You've got the whole message from the top down to the telescope. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| What does a telescope factor into the message? | ||
| It's the means of exactly sending the message. | ||
| It's the technology that we used. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Now, if you go to the left-hand glyph. | ||
| There's a change. | ||
| There's a change. | ||
| That crop circle, or that crop glyph, is in the place of the telescope in the right-hand message. | ||
| And if I were to guess what it was showing, Richard, there's a box in the middle, and there appears to be... | ||
| Remember, this is a schematic. | ||
| They had to scrunch it into this little place that they used to place it. | ||
| But the real one is right down below it in image 5. | ||
| I would say it shows a two-way transmission. | ||
| It could even be a repeater. | ||
| It shows some kind of technology. | ||
| Yes, some kind of repeat. | ||
| To send this message. | ||
| Now, everybody's wanted for years. | ||
| Or Richard, to repeat the message. | ||
| If you look carefully, it's a box with emanations on both sides. | ||
| Well, but that's the glyph that appeared a year ago. | ||
| Look at image number five. | ||
| See where it says PRS, what's her name, Pringle, at year 2000? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| That appeared on August 14th, a year ago. | ||
| It also appears to show a symmetrical, we could imagine, possibly, what could you imagine? | ||
| Could that be another way of showing the same thing? | ||
| Well, I think the fact that this appeared next to this radio telescope... | ||
| Is it meaningful and is the idea of equivalence? | ||
| Holy smokes. | ||
| You've got your technology. | ||
| This is our technology. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Now, we have got, back in, what was it, 87, when I started the monument series, the iterations of Monuments of Mars, the crop glyphs were just coming into their own. | ||
| And in one of the later editions, edition two or three, I put in decoded crop glyphs from the English collection and found that some of those crop glyphs, before the internet, before everybody got into this and they could talk freely and send images and basically mess up the data stream, we found stunning correlations between the math and geometry at Sidonia and the math and geometry in the crop glyphs, particularly one called Barbary Castle. | ||
| And what I said then was, somebody at Sidonia and somebody in the crop glyphs is trying to tell us about hyperdimensional physics, this alternate technology that, if we're right, allows you to bypass the speed of light, send signals or people or information or whatever across the galaxy, across the universe in a twinkling of an eye through another dimension. | ||
| And what it looks like at the Chil Bolton telescope last year, somebody was basically saying, you've got your technology, this is how our technology works. | ||
| Now you flash forward the film a year to a few days ago. | ||
| And then you've got the Arecibo message repeated with elegant differences. | ||
| And in the bottom, where you've got the technology part, you go to the left and you have this same circle replicated. | ||
| And that's what I think the message is trying to say. | ||
| This is how we do this. | ||
| This is how you do that. | ||
| You know, Richard, if you and I are sitting here talking about this tonight, somewhere in our government, governments even around the world, this is getting noticed. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Of course. | |
| Well, they listen to you. | ||
| You know that. | ||
| Every time I come on, they listen to me. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We know that. | |
| I'm serious. | ||
| This has got to be noticed. | ||
| You know, I used to have a guy that would actually call me up from Houston, and he would hold the phone up, and you could hear the echoing of the Art Bell show when I was on in the speakers in Houston and the Johnson Space Center. | ||
| Yes, echoing off your statue. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Anyway, yes, many statues. | ||
| All right, let's go down to the last image, image number seven. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Notice where they put the Persian rug, the Arecibo duplicate. | ||
| It's pointing right. | ||
| Pointing right at the telescope. | ||
| Pointing right at the telescope. | ||
| Which, of course, yeah, they're elegant. | ||
| Come on, this is really crappy, elegant market. | ||
| Yeah, now, now we come back to last night. | ||
| Because five days after the Persian carpet, the Arecibo duplicate with differences that people like, tannies, and others, and I really implore people, if there's anybody out there, biochemists, who know the DNA sequencing and can actually see what the differences are between our message and the message it came back, I really, really, really want to know. | ||
| So please fax us at our fax number, which is 505-286-6130. | ||
| And I also want anybody who is working on this right now, some of the messages this afternoon I saw, to send me messages through the private links that you already have because we have to crack this. | ||
| I don't think we had a lot of time. | ||
| I think this is saying school is about up. | ||
| Something's going to happen in this year. | ||
| Soon. | ||
| Soon. | ||
| The collective is pretty smart, Richard, and a lot of people said it in a lot of different ways and believed a lot of different things. | ||
| But again, in two hours or more, two and a half hours of taking calls, everybody collectively, no matter what they believed, said they felt it means soon. | ||
| I think it means real soon. | ||
| So let's go back to the one that appeared last night, or the one that you heard about last night, the head, the face. | ||
| Yes, yes, yes. | ||
| All right. | ||
| If you go back. | ||
| And at the top, up at the top. | ||
| And up at the top, yes, the image number two. | ||
| Notice how close it is. | ||
| Notice it's also oriented with the forehead toward the little reservation where the telescope and the labs are and all that. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| I think it's connected. | ||
| I don't think it's an accident that that's connected, and here's why. | ||
| And here's the piece of data that all the other folks that are working on this do not have yet, and they will in the next 30 seconds. | ||
| Yeah, on your show several times, I have mentioned two names, Carl Monk and Michael Morton. | ||
| Remember Carl Monk, the guy who did the first global grids of ancient sacred sites? | ||
| And I related to his discoveries that you can actually factor in the sightings of Sidonia on his global grid. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| It's a global matrix. | ||
| And we don't have time to describe how it works, but it really does work. | ||
| Michael Morton has picked up the cudgels. | ||
| And actually, a couple three years ago, we had Michael on as a guest when we were in Miami doing the Crop Circle stuff, not Crop Circle, the Miami Circle stuff, because he found that the Miami Circle was on this ancient global grid. | ||
| Michael has been doing an extraordinary amount of work, and he has his own websites, and we're going to have all these connected up on a rather lengthy post that we'll have posted sometime tomorrow afternoon, probably. | ||
| We couldn't get it up by tonight, but we'll have it there, and we'll have all the links to the English sites and the Crop Circle connector and Michael's site. | ||
| Well, Michael found, working on the crop glyph that appeared a year ago, image number five, that there is an exquisite connection between that little piece of real estate across the fence from that radio telescope and Sidonia. | ||
| Specifically, the face on Mars is mathematically linked to that field and where that crop circle sits. | ||
| And I don't have time to go through the numbers, but if you want to pursue it through the links, it's there. | ||
| Just go to Michael Martin site. | ||
| By the way, speaking of numbers, Richard, the Arecibo message you indicated to me was sent November 16th, you believe, of 1997. | ||
| I know it was November 74. | ||
| I'm just annoying. | ||
| All right, November of 74. | ||
| Let's stick with that. | ||
| As a matter of curiosity, this is 2001, right? | ||
| Yep, and that was 27 years ago. | ||
| So that would be 27 light years out at the speed of light, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
don't. | |
| So if we were to draw a 27 light year circle around Earth, Now, it was beamed in one direction. | ||
| And it was a very narrow beam width because the Arecibo telescope has a very narrow beam width. | ||
| So there wasn't much chance of intercepting any other star in between. | ||
| I mean, if anybody intercepted this, they were sitting in a spaceship parked with a little radio receiver pitching it up, okay? | ||
| It's not another star system. | ||
| No, this is about us. | ||
| Let me finish the point on Sidonia. | ||
| Morton has proven that this field, this piece of real estate, is mathematically linked to Sidonia, the face on Mars. | ||
| So when I realized that, when I did a little homework today and found that he'd already done that a year ago and published it, I then was really, really convinced that this face that you're so excited about is supposed to represent our friend at Sidonia. | ||
| But what it would be if both halves were symmetrical. | ||
| In other words, the hominid half and the right half with subtleties. | ||
| Now, if you look carefully at the image, go back up to image number one. | ||
| I'm here. | ||
| You'll see that they put it in the field so that the tram lines, these are these 10-foot-wide irrigation tracks so they can get tractors in and they have these long things with wheels that roll big sprinkler units down the field. | ||
| That's what those lines are. | ||
| That's what those lines are, yeah. | ||
| They arranged it, remember they could arrange it any azimuth. | ||
| They could have rotated this thing any way around, right? | ||
| Correct. | ||
| They arranged it so that the tram line cuts it just about in half at a little angle, like its duplicate, we think, maybe at Sidonia. | ||
| But they made it pretty symmetrical because there are people who can't see asymmetrical images. | ||
| They don't understand that level yet of the message. | ||
| What kind of dummies wouldn't that? | ||
| I know. | ||
| Who would not get that, right? | ||
| But if this all hangs together, if we can mathematically link through Monk and Morton's work this field with Sidonia, you've got to look at their work to see that that really is there, and then the Arecibo message with the changed DNA on the left in the Persian carpet in the replicated message. | ||
| I can't believe this. | ||
| The Arecibo message hits me even harder than the face, Richard. | ||
| And the face hit me so hard because we've always dealt with beautiful, beautiful circles and all of these intricate. | ||
| And they're nice enough, but you always got to wonder what the hell are they? | ||
| And here comes a face. | ||
| No doubt about a face. | ||
| So of course I get excited. | ||
| And now, now you're proving to me, I'm afraid, that we've been answered, that our radio signal has been answered. | ||
| Well, I think they finally figured out we're too damn dumb to decode the good stuff, and they have to stoop to our level, our primitive level, and they're almost giving us our own very basic code back with subtle changes, which there are feverish guys out there tonight working on. | ||
| This could be first contact. | ||
| That's what I'm strongly suggesting tonight. | ||
| We have just been contacted. | ||
| Now, if we're right, this field will have other things appear in it. | ||
| Damn it, Richard, you should have labeled image number four. | ||
| You know, for everybody going on. | ||
| I mean, people are going to be calling their friends. | ||
| We should get some labels up on image number four. | ||
| Well, Keith can do that. | ||
| He's good at it. | ||
| Keith, can you put some labels on image number four, please? | ||
| And also then related to image number six, which is the decoding of the Arecibo message. | ||
| And they also need to see the placement of these messages with respect to the telescope. | ||
| I agree. | ||
| God. | ||
| Now, we only had an hour tonight. | ||
| So obviously we have just begun to whet people's appetites. | ||
| I want to make a little announcement here. | ||
| I'm going to do an in-person speaking thing at the Bay Area UFO conference. | ||
| I do one conference every year, and that's the one I've chosen to do. | ||
| This year, it's September 15th and 16th. | ||
| I'll be there for two days. | ||
| We're going to give two workshops. | ||
| The first workshop is going to be on the title model, the thing we discussed the last time, and how it relates to this. | ||
| And then the second workshop is going to be on this, and there will be new news, I'm sure, by that time. | ||
| And that's what, three weeks away, two weeks away. | ||
| This is big news. | ||
| If people want to get tickets, get a pen here. | ||
| Right. | ||
| They call area 408-266-4749. | ||
| That's 408-266-4749. | ||
| And we'll have this up on our website tomorrow as well. | ||
| We'll have, you know, like a couple free hours to go into the details. | ||
| There's many more little subtleties here. | ||
| By that time, maybe Tanny and the other guys will have decoded the DNA part and tell me specifically how it differs. | ||
| There's also a change in the solar system line. | ||
| In other words, if you go down to the image number four, below the hominid figure, there's a little row of thingies. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| That's digital code for the solar system. | ||
| But if you look at the same line under the Kropglyph guy, it's different. | ||
| And it may be different because there are different planets, or there may be a planet with different moons, or it may relate, in fact, to Mars as a moon of you-know-what as part of our tidal model. | ||
| We're going to be looking at that seriously. | ||
| The other thing I want to announce is that I have some very, very neat people that handle our distribution of our videos. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And they have decided tonight to make this offer to the Art Bell audience and only the Art Bell audience. | ||
| Since so much of this has been a mystery, there is a really snazzy Italian Crop Circle video out, which really gets into the details of the numbers and the codes and the imagery. | ||
| And I mean, it's the best one that I know of, all right? | ||
| It's extremely well done. | ||
| It's won two EBs. | ||
| It's one Eurofoot related theme with the International UFO Congress. | ||
| It's done by an Italian UFO investigator, Giorgio Bangiovanni. | ||
| They're making the offer tonight that if you pick up a copy of my UN briefing where I discuss the hyperdimensional coding in the crop circles, they will throw in for free this exquisite crop circle video just off the duplicating machines, just off the presses, called The Mystery of the Crop Circles, the Cosmic Code. | ||
| And so you get one for free, and it's the one that's highly relevant to your background in terms of what may be about to happen next. | ||
| So if you want that little deal, you call 1-800-350-4639. | ||
| That's 1-800-350-4639. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Richard, is there any way that the evidence that you see and you presented to us all tonight doesn't mean contact? | ||
| Unless we're looking at a hoax. | ||
| All right, an outright hoax. | ||
| Richard, I refuse to believe that somebody comes technically minded enough to drive people more than China to do this. | ||
| I don't believe it. | ||
| But let me tell you why it works either way. | ||
| If it's real, obviously it's imminent contact, and I think it's contact about us and our heritage. | ||
| People keep saying, why England? | ||
| Why England? | ||
| This is a few miles from Stonehenge, which has the same hyperdimensional numbers as Sidonia. | ||
| Go to Monk, go to Morton, go to US, look at the numbers, and you'll see that case is made. | ||
| People haven't been paying attention because it wasn't time. | ||
| It's now time. | ||
| It's 2001. | ||
| We're on some kind of clock, as I've been saying for the last year and a half. | ||
| If it's fake art, all right, it means it was faked by somebody with extremely sophisticated knowledge. | ||
| Number one, okay, this isn't Doug and Dave. | ||
| This is somebody in the defense intelligence establishment. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| All right. | ||
| At the very least. | ||
| At the very least. | ||
| And number two, it's somebody who knows things they shouldn't know and are relating things they shouldn't know. | ||
| And maybe it's an inside leak of this important information. | ||
| So it works either way. | ||
| All right, it's not. | ||
| There's not a bunch of amateurs that have nothing better to do on a Saturday night. | ||
| Just what I was going to say. | ||
| No amateur work here, either way. | ||
| All right, Richard, as always, thank you for being here. | ||
| And thank you for being there. | ||
| Good night, my friend. | ||
| You too. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Get to my website. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Crawl. | |
| Run. | ||
| Get to my website. | ||
| You're just not going to believe this stuff. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Nights in White Side Hill. | |
| Never reaching the end. | ||
| Let's go through. | ||
| Never meaning to send Seattle with these eyes before just for the truth. | ||
| I can't say anymore. | ||
| Everybody else but truth is all the ride Wanna take a ride? | ||
| Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255. | ||
| East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033. | ||
| First-time callers may reach Art at area code 775-727-1222 or call the Wildcard line at 775-727-1295. | ||
| To talk with Art on the Toll-Free International Line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and Edmond dial 800-893-0903. | ||
| This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell. | ||
| I have never had the pleasure, the honor of speaking to a bishop in the church, and I'm about to have that. | ||
| We're going all the way to Great Britain to speak with the right Reverend Sean Manchester, who is a bishop and a vampire hunter. | ||
| He's written things like The Highgate Vampire, The World of the Undead Unearthed at London's Highgate Cemetery. | ||
| I'm sure we'll hear all about that. | ||
| First, just very briefly, the first hour tonight was so incredibly important that I've just got to repeat it for those of you who might be just joining. | ||
| For heaven's sakes, go to my website, artbell.com. | ||
| Click on program and guest tonight's guest. | ||
| And go look at the images, particularly image number four. | ||
| On the left is a little further down, you'll see where it actually was in front of a radio telescope, which we didn't know. | ||
| It's a glyph, obviously, on the left that was just received. | ||
| And on the right, transmitted in November of 1974 from Arecibo. | ||
| I happen to be wearing an Arecibo t-shirt tonight. | ||
| You can see if you take a look at my webcam. | ||
| The message transmitted from Arecibo, and on the left, obviously, the answer just received from space. | ||
| In the middle, the face, first time we ever received a face in a crop circle, of what seems to be a human, perhaps early human Richard Hoagland says, face. | ||
| It's all on my website right now. | ||
| Go take a look for yourself. | ||
| In a moment, we kind of switch gears, go all the way to Great Britain, and this one's going to probably be a little scary. | ||
| So if you're easily scared, you might want to tune out right now if you think your constitution can handle it and stick around. | ||
| Now we go all the way to Great Britain to talk to a bishop, the Reverend Sean Manchester, bishop and primate holding dignity of Archbishop, Bishop in the Old Catholic Church, consecrated for October of 1991, Lord Bishop of the Ancient See of Glastonbury, much more. | ||
| He's written so much The Highgate Vampire, from Satan to Christ, Mad, Bad, and Dangerous to Know, The Grail Church, The Vampire Hunter's Handbook, and Carmel, a Vampire Tale. | ||
| Born towards the end of a nightmare that reduced much of Europe to a wasteland, Sean Manchester, as an only child, played in the avenues of somber forest trees in Lord Byron's gloomy abode. | ||
| Newstead Abbey Park, where the fading twilight coupled with the moan in leafy woods to herald the last tangible breath of the romantic movement. | ||
| His beloved mother was born at the end of the Great War, and it is via this side of the family that the Byron connection is inherited. | ||
| Here is the Right Reverend Sean Manchester. | ||
| Welcome to the program. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, good evening. | |
| Good evening. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I speak from a very mist-clad England, from our retreat on the coast, where certainly the thick white mist is at this very moment stealing across the waves onto the clifftop and enfolding us. | |
| Through those windows that are not stained glass, we cannot perceive anything. | ||
| Boy, that's quite a picture, isn't it? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Most appropriate. | |
| Bishop Manchester, I frequently had the honor to interview a priest here in America. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| I wonder if you know who I'm talking about, a famous exorcist. | ||
| His name was Father Malachi Martin. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, I never had the pleasure, unfortunately. | |
| He was an incredible, incredible man, Bishop Ben. | ||
| I understand that you too have been performing the rite of exorcism for some time. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, I entered the minor order of exorcists in early 1973. | |
| And my predecessors are all gone now. | ||
| I mean, in those who were clergy, over Montague Summers, Father Brockard Sewell, quite recently, of course, departed. | ||
| And a layperson who was a vampirolist for sure was the late Professor Dr. Devondra P. Varma, author of the Gothic Flame. | ||
| He died tragically whilst giving a lecture tour some time ago. | ||
| I dedicated my handbook actually to Dr. Varma, who was a close colleague and someone I admired. | ||
| In fact, we had a mutual admiration. | ||
| He was a member of the Byron Society and very kindly reviewed my biography of Lady Caroline Lamb for their journal. | ||
| We had a great enthusiasm for Byronania and we shared an interest in Lady Caroline Lamb which was unusual in that particular society where she to this day has something of a notoriety. | ||
| Mad, bad and dangerous to know. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's the epithet coined by Lady Caroline to describe Lord Byron after her first meeting. | |
| She confided that to her personal journal, and the words thereafter were ever associated with his lordship. | ||
| But, of course, they were every bit as much appropriate to Lady Caroline as to him, though neither were mad nor bad. | ||
| Bishop, I would like to ask you a little bit about evil itself. | ||
| Father Malachi Martin told me, I asked him, look, what's happening? | ||
| You know, he was in New York City. | ||
| That's where he was headquartered. | ||
| And he said that the need or the number of exorcisms in his area alone, that's all he could really talk about in New York, had gone up about 800% in recent years. | ||
| 800%. | ||
| That's a pretty big increase in the amount of evil about, is it not? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, it doesn't surprise me to hear that figure. | |
| Were I to ask you the same question, how would you answer with regard to Great Britain? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, Britain, like America, it was once a Christian country and culture, which aimed to protect the young and the vulnerable from depraved practices and satanic influences. | |
| Regrettably, that is no longer the case, particularly here in the United Kingdom. | ||
| Recent polls that have been published indicate that those who subscribe to the dark occult and alternative belief systems, which include Satanism, diabolism, necromancy, now far outnumber Christians in our country. | ||
| What? | ||
|
unidentified
|
And it's revealed that this rise can be directly linked to the fall in Christian church attendance. | |
| And I suppose we reap what we sow. | ||
| That's almost hard to believe. | ||
| It should be hard to believe that the number devoted to the dark forces, including Satanism, outnumber the Christians? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Not just diabolists and people engaged in malefic occultism, but people who embrace alternative belief systems that are sometimes collectively described under that umbrella New Age. | |
| But of course, within New Ageism comes the theosophical beliefs and kindred beliefs that were the foundation of much of modern witchcraft and are bedfellows with much else in the occult. | ||
| It's difficult to talk about the occult without it becoming dark. | ||
| I mean, I met most of the leaders within the early witchcraft modern movement, apart of course from those from the 19th century that lived into the 20th century, but I met them in the 60s and I got to know them slightly well. | ||
| And they would later be described as the best of their kind, the white, which is the white pagans, the ones that would do no harm and in fact whose own writings have become textbooks used in adult education centers. | ||
| However, behind closed doors, they were quick to reveal to me that there was a dark side, and that side was one that they were not reluctant to tap into. | ||
| The more notorious figures, the late Alexanders, was quite open about the fact that... | ||
| But most of the calls I get are from Wiccans, who say, not only are we not devoted to the dark side, but there really is no dark side. | ||
|
unidentified
|
They would, wouldn't they? | |
| That is the standard practice of all clandestine and secret societies, to deny the existence of the very thing to which they might possibly belong. | ||
| Of course, those in the lower orders or the neophytes and newly initiated might quite genuinely not be aware of the truly dark and sinister aspects of that. | ||
| But it wouldn't take long for them to make that discovery because the secrets of such cults, as they reveal themselves, are the darkness. | ||
| The early progress is all light and natural and embracing nature and very environmentally sound. | ||
| It's when they progress beyond those early initiations and learn what everyone talks about as the secrets of their particular group or govern or circle. | ||
| And those secrets, as they become more and more enmeshed and involved, evince themselves as the very things we all fear they were in the beginning, which is the engagement. | ||
| I mean, my book From Satan to Christ does reveal that very story that somebody initiated, having left university, into what seemed like a benign coven of witches who merely wanted to embrace the old ways, the pagan ways, and worship nature. | ||
| Within a very short space of time, she was engaging in animal sacrifices. | ||
| Well, she personally wasn't, but she was witnessing animal sacrifices, death curses, and even she participated even in one or more black masses. | ||
| Venture by I'm very curious, how does one cross that line from worshiping the forces of nature, which could, and by some, are attached to God? | ||
| How do you cross that line to the dark and evil side? | ||
| It apparently is quite easy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, my perception all along, I mean, I did actually, throughout the 70s and the first half of the 80s, investigate, infiltrate, and thoroughly look into Much of what was going on during the occult explosion here in Britain, which included groups of so-called Wiccans. | |
| And I have to say that not at the ground level, the people who, many people join these cults with the most sincere intentions and the most genuine motives. | ||
| It's the leaders invariably who are the problem. | ||
| Those in control that want to control. | ||
| And those would be the ones with the secrets. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, and they are the, as I would describe it, the revelers in deception. | |
| And they have in common the same thing over and over again, and it is getting money from the membership. | ||
| In certain instances, even sending people out to engage in vice and other criminal behavior, as it is in this country at least, to make money for the coven, so to speak. | ||
| I wouldn't want to paint every group and coven this way. | ||
| I would simply say that there are no controls. | ||
| And there might be little coteries of people who are seemingly harmless and are not engaged in any of these matters whatsoever. | ||
| But there seems to be no control. | ||
| And it's difficult. | ||
| It's rather like taking accepting drugs that are offered in a nightclub. | ||
| There is no way of knowing where it came from and what it will do to you. | ||
| And whilst amongst all this, there are sincere people, I don't doubt, who are, I mean, witchcraft in the form presented by the witches is very kindred to Hinduism. | ||
| There's not a lot of difference with a smattering of theosophy and a few Masonic rituals thrown in at the low grade. | ||
| But it's almost impossible to discern what you're getting into until it's too late, by which time they already have things on you. | ||
| They've already learned your secrets to hold over you and against you. | ||
| And perhaps had you engage in things which have been photographed or witnessed that make it very difficult for you to turn against them for fear of those actions being used against you. | ||
| That's been my experience. | ||
| And what amazed me, particularly in the early 70s, when I knew most of the leaders within the occult and the witchcraft world, and they're not necessarily the same. | ||
| Many people who are practitioners of magic wouldn't necessarily be anything to do with witchcraft, which is described by the Wiccans as a religion. | ||
| However, often I've spoken to people who are one and the same thing, and they're usually the leaders, they're usually the names that you would recognize. | ||
| And what amazed me, I mean, I wouldn't have to meet them more than once or twice, and before, in private, over a cup of tea, they would be explaining how they'd cursed this person and cursed that person and sent this death spell to somebody else. | ||
| And it just struck me as odd that they were so willing to share this information. | ||
| And on one occasion, I mean, a high priestess whose name I will not give because she'd been known by everyone in that world. | ||
| She's not a young person anymore either. | ||
| I think on about the third meeting with her, and I said, well, if you believe all this ability to predict what will happen works, do it now. | ||
| I'll get your tarot cards out and let's have it. | ||
| You tell me what... | ||
| That's just for the punters, so to speak. | ||
| That's just for those out there. | ||
| You and I know that all this is at all unnecessary. | ||
| And I was just astonished, and it just made me realize what a world of absolute deception it is. | ||
| And yes, there are people within, I suppose, alternative beliefs who are genuine seekers, genuinely looking for something pure and better than they've hitherto known or found in organized religion or philosophy. | ||
| But I'm sure you would still say to them, you have not yet heard the rest of the story. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, I'm afraid so. | |
| That has been my experience over certainly more than three decades. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Bishop, hold it right there, and we'll take a bottom-of-the-hour break. | ||
| So many questions for the Bishop, Sean Manchester, coming to us all the way from Great Britain. | ||
| Before it's over, we'll talk of vampires and things of the dark and the pit. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm Artel. | |
| I've been up to the bad luck. | ||
| Since the day I saw the cat like that, so I came in to you, sweet lady. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| You do the best. | ||
| Say we get with them all. | ||
| I knew it was a spouse she cast She's just a better woman With a lot of minds Wanna take a ride? | ||
| Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255. | ||
| East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033. | ||
| First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222. | ||
| The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295. | ||
| And to reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903. | ||
| This is Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network. | ||
| From Great Britain, my guest is Bishop Sean Manchester, who sounds so much like Father Malachi Martin in some ways that he gives me the shifts. | ||
| We're talking of things evil, good and evil, but a bit on the dark side tonight. | ||
| So this kind of thing gets to you, why you're going to want to turn your radio off. | ||
| Stay right where you are. | ||
| Back now to the somewhat misty, probably cool atmosphere in Bishop Manchester's part of England. | ||
| Back to you, sir. | ||
| A lot of people here in America say that there is no real evil. | ||
| There is evil in the mind of man as there is good. | ||
| But there is no real evil, a separate entity, an evil entity, a devil, Satan. | ||
| It's not real. | ||
| Bishop? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, I understand that. | |
| And what I suppose caused me to enter a crusade, a lifelong crusade against evil, or the devil evil, is, and indeed to eventually, from the mid-80s, run a ministry to those in the cults and the occult where evil is certainly apparent, were my experiences, not least my experience with supernatural evil. | ||
| I mean, most people are familiar with that abstract evil which is an absence of something, where something is missing. | ||
| In a person, it, I suppose, would reveal itself as a lack of conscience, a complete unwillingness to recognize any moral code. | ||
| For example, a small child who kills, we have many of them in America, and has absolutely no regrets, simply will recite what was done with actually some glee and rather blank eyes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, absolutely. | |
| That is a sort of an abstract conception. | ||
| It isn't genuine evil. | ||
| It's simply the lack of good. | ||
| It's the lack of a moral code. | ||
| But evil, in reality, is gloomy, monotonous, barren and boring. | ||
| And when one faces that sort of absence of good, it's deeply depressing. | ||
| But there is something beyond that, which is more linked with the devil. | ||
| And I even quote a late Pope from the early 70s from a speech he delivered in 1972 where he said, evil is not merely a lack of something, but an effective agent, a living spiritual being, perverted and perverting, a terrible reality, mysterious and frightening. | ||
| And I'm afraid I would have to agree with that analysis and definition of what is in effect supernatural evil that would, I suppose, encompass the world of demons. | ||
| Few can deny there are unseen forces, influences at work. | ||
| It's how we define them that makes it interesting. | ||
| Vishava, you have done exorcisms. | ||
| Could I talk you into describing for me what an exorcism is like when it's done? | ||
| What is an exorcism like? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, exorcism is a last stand. | |
| It's just the last thing you do after you've exhausted all other possibilities. | ||
| It is literally what Christians are called upon, all Christians actually, in the Gospel of Mark 16, I think verse 17, believers will cast out demons in my name is the actual quote. | ||
| And it is the attempt to remove a demonic presence. | ||
| The Catholic Church, it is my understanding, does a whole lot of validation, even going to committees and all kinds of things, before it will finally authorize officially an exorcism. | ||
| And I assume that what they're looking for is something that crosses the line that you just talked about a little while ago. | ||
| Not the evil within, not the evil with the absence of something, but the evil that has crossed that line. | ||
| Possession. | ||
| Actual possession. | ||
| Is that? | ||
|
unidentified
|
A demonic force. | |
| A demonic force, yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| It's a little worrying today how few in the church, any church really in the West, of the what who consider themselves to be part of the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, including Anglicans and Church of England, how few of them are able to perform the rite of exorcism, even if their bishop were to give them permission. | ||
| It's extremely worrying that I hear from so many ordinary people who've been to their local priest and have brought their concerns and mentioned the possible need for exorcism. | ||
| And the priest has simply not been equipped to even discuss it, much less carry it out. | ||
| Now, as a lay person, that doesn't make sense to me, because a priest, of course, believes absolutely in God, and I would think that... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| I mean, I'm very concerned. | ||
| I mean, you've heard me criticizing the alternative belief systems that have more or less grown out of the 60s Occult explosion, largely influenced by the writings and philosophies of two 19th 20th century occultists, namely Alastair Crowley and Gerald Gardner. | ||
| And that is where modern witchcraft and modern pagans more or less has its roots. | ||
| There isn't much to, you can't really go back a lot further than that. | ||
| And you've heard me cast some criticism in their direction. | ||
| I would equally admonish many of the mainstream churches, particularly in the West, for disarming themselves. | ||
| I mean, Archbishop Emmanuel Malingo, who is a Roman Catholic archbishop, has been more or less under technical house arrest since being so, perhaps almost too willing, some would say, to perform exorcisms, which the church is less willing to do. | ||
| And his actual words are that the Christ Church is defenseless now against the wiles of the devil. | ||
| Above all, they succeeded in making many Christians think that the devil does not exist. | ||
| It is curious, to say the least, why this has happened since the last war, but it has happened. | ||
| Perhaps this would be some clue. | ||
| Father Malachi Martin was very close to a couple of popes, very close. | ||
| And he wrote a couple of books clearly saying that it was his belief that there is evil and has been for some time within the walls of the Vatican itself. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That is a commonly held belief by traditionalist people on the traditional wing of the Catholic Church. | |
| And I find it difficult to be persuaded otherwise also. | ||
| There is a definite reluctance within the Roman Catholic Church and certainly the Church of England to deal with the supernatural, to deal with demonic influence and to deal with the devil. | ||
| Well, if demons, Bishop, and the devil are real, and there is an influence from the top which would go from the top down, then it's not all that difficult for me to grasp why perhaps the practice is being suppressed. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Absolutely. | |
| Was it earlier this year, around Easter, that the Pope giving his, was it his midweek audience, he was giving his audience in the Vatican, to which the public may attend, and a young girl with her mother, the young girl, started to show all the signs of demonic possession. | ||
| And the Pope actually interrupted the Pope's speech, and the Pope took her aside and apparently made a couple of attempts. | ||
| It was described in the popular press as a couple of attempts at exorcism. | ||
| But investigation reveals that he attempted to talk with the girl, and I think she remained abusive, and clearly nothing he did seemed to calm the situation or resolve it. | ||
| And various people were referred to. | ||
| I tried to contact the Vatican and offer my help. | ||
| And this was published on the internet by various people in Italian and Spanish and various languages on their websites that I had made the offer openly through the Catholic press to deal with the situation and I didn't have the courtesy of a reply over and over again. | ||
| Yes, had that incident been reported in the world's press or even Italy's press? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, it was in all the religious newspapers, particularly the official Vatican newspaper from Rome. | |
| But it was in the Catholic newspapers and it was, I dare say, also in the ordinary lay press. | ||
| And it was mentioned briefly on the television news. | ||
| And all we know is that the situation wasn't resolved. | ||
| The girl was not, as far as I am aware, successfully exercised, if any attempt was made to exercise her at all. | ||
| I only know that such help as I proffered was totally and utterly ignored. | ||
| Something I'm really getting quite used to. | ||
| And what concerns me particularly is when I read, as I did in the Sunday Times, which I think you would agree is not a tabloid, on the 30th of November 1997, where it stated that 70, no less than 70, at 7.0 Church of England ministers, that is to say vicars, priests, rectors, possibly even bishops, state that they do not believe in God. | ||
| I have done countless radio programs where I've been confronted and have confronted ministers within usually the Anglican communion who see everything as symbolic and not real. | ||
| That certainly don't subscribe to any form of the supernatural. | ||
| They see everything, including God as figuratively, and they just treat everything as an analogy. | ||
| There is a movement here. | ||
| Yes, you see, I thought that's what we did out here in the lay community. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And that's part of the problem. | |
| And if I'm critical of people within alternative belief systems, and I am, I'm equally, if not more, and possibly more critical of those within the church, mainstream churchianity in particular, who are simply not doing their job. | ||
| And when I've confronted them individually on programs, I've wondered what on earth are they doing wearing a dog collar? | ||
| Why on earth aren't they counselors? | ||
| They clearly are not abiding by the rules of the organization they've joined. |
Export Selection