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Aug. 2, 2001 - Art Bell

02:46:16

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Studies of the Mind - Marilyn Schlitz

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	Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 2nd, 2001.
	From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be across this great land of ours and well beyond.
	I'm Art Bell and this, of course, is Coast to Coast AM.
	Glad to be with you and glad to welcome yet more new affiliates.
	KWFS in Wichita Falls, Texas.
	On down Texas Way, 1290 on the dial.
	Welcome.
	Make that KWTX in Waco, Texas.
	1230 on the dial.
	Great to be on in Waco, too.
	And WCCF in Punta Gorda, Florida.
	1580 on the dial.
	Welcome to the great, growing, nearing 500 network.
	For all the years I've been on radio, I've wanted to hit the number of 500.
	And I'm telling you, we are that close.
	Just that close.
	In a few moments, I've got a rather bizarre, but for this show, perhaps somewhat normal, story to tell you.
	I think you'll find it absolutely fascinating.
	don't move.
	Very strange has happened in Michigan and Rob is here to tell us all about it.
	Rob, welcome to the program.
	Thank you.
	You don't have to say where you are in Michigan.
	Do you not want to say?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	You're at work right now, right?
	Correct.
	All right.
	So we can only take up so much of your time.
	Why don't you start at the beginning and tell me what happened, Rob.
	Okay.
	It was about Monday, about 10 p.m., and we were driving in the car, me and my wife.
	Right.
	You know, it was dark out and we seen something in the road and we thought it was going to move and we just hit it right away.
	We couldn't stop or anything.
	What kind of road was this?
	A country road?
	It was like a highway.
	A freeway or just sort of a highway?
	Just like a highway.
	A two-lane road.
	Two-lane road.
	They call it a highway.
	Up there.
	Okay.
	Alright.
	And so here you are doing about how many miles per hour?
	Seventy-five.
	Seventy-five.
	Yeah.
	That's normal for up there because there's everything so far.
	Okay, so you were clipping along pretty well.
	Right.
	Alright.
	So were there other cars on the road?
	No.
	There was nobody else on the road.
	That's normal for up there because there's There's hardly any people up there.
	It's not very populated.
	Okay, who was driving, Will?
	I was.
	Okay, Rob, your wife was in the passenger seat.
	Correct.
	It was just the two of you?
	Correct.
	And you saw something looming, what, directly?
	Did it run right out in front of you, or did it just sort of loom up in front of you?
	I thought it was a deer at first, Art, because it just walked out, but then it squatted down.
	I don't know.
	You know, and then that's when we just hit it.
	Alright, it walked out in front of the road, squatted down, that's all the time you had.
	You slammed on the brakes, I take it?
	No, I couldn't brake or anything.
	Not even that much time?
	No, it was just all over right there.
	So you hit this thing doing 75 miles an hour?
	Pretty much, yeah.
	Maybe 70.
	Maybe 70.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	That wouldn't have been all bad because I have hit a deer at 75, you know, 80 miles an hour, you know, up there and it did, you know, it's normal really, you know, to be going that fast and if a deer walks out to hit something like that, this wasn't a deer.
	Rob, you think it was perhaps a Bigfoot, don't you?
	I'm not, you know, that's what it looks like, Art, you know, right now.
	Alright, describe the creature you hit.
	It had hair all over its body.
	It was a brown hair.
	And then if you look real close, there was some gray hairs in there.
	So it was older.
	How long was the hair?
	Was it as long as a human finger?
	Was it longer?
	As long as your hand?
	How long was the hair?
	On a human, it would look like a hippie.
	Real long hair like that.
	So as long as a human hand?
	Longer than that?
	You mean, I'd say like up to your elbow, down to your hand.
	Oh, that's really long hair then.
	Everywhere?
	All over it's body?
	Not on it's face.
	It's hands didn't have that much hair.
	The rest of the body did.
	Can you describe the face?
	It was like smooshed in.
	Like a bulldog.
	That's the best I can describe it like a bulldog.
	Would you say it looked like a typical ape or a gorilla?
	Yeah, a gorilla.
	That's what I would say this looked like.
	That it had too much hair.
	You know how a gorilla has the paw thing on its chest?
	Sure.
	This didn't have that.
	Any other features in the face that weren't purely gorilla-like?
	It had like black guys, real black guys.
	You know.
	Alright.
	How far from your home were you when you hit this?
	Maybe like two city blocks.
	Oh, very close to home.
	Yeah.
	Uh-huh.
	So, is this creature, was it obviously dead?
	I'm not sure.
	We got hair samples and that.
	We drug it back into the woods.
	I told my wife, take the car, go get the jeep because the jeep has a winch.
	Right.
	And we winched it back into the woods so no one can see or anything.
	We had flashlights and we got hair samples.
	And then I cut its leg open with a honey knife to get blood.
	Yeah.
	So I could have blood samples.
	And then we got that.
	And then my wife was going to work, you know, the next day.
	And she went back in the woods with the Jeep and it was still there.
	So I don't know if it's alive, dead, what, you know.
	So you now have hair samples and you have blood samples and the body is just two blocks from your house.
	The body is in a, we got a fallout shelter.
	We built a fallout shelter for Y2K and it's in the fallout shelter at the house.
	So you got it out of the woods and brought it back to the house?
	We winched it on a snowmobile trailer last night and we put a tarp over it so no one can see it and we put it in the fallout shelter.
	What is your wife?
	So now you've got this creature sitting in a fallout shelter on your front lawn?
	No, it's underground.
	It's underground.
	So you've got it underground in your yard?
	It's an underground fallout shelter.
	It was for Y2K where you can put food and all that stuff.
	I understand.
	And it's in there right now.
	We moved everything out of there.
	So if it wakes up or what, it's not going to get hurt or anything.
	Did it have a smell to it?
	It smelled like rotten fish, sir.
	Rotten fish?
	Really bad, rotten fish.
	You know?
	So... I don't... That's why we put it down there.
	What did you... I couldn't stand the smell.
	Okay, uh... Rob, I'm very curious.
	What did your wife have to say about all this?
	She's excited.
	She's really excited.
	She's all hyped up.
	And I'm really scared.
	What does your wife think that you have found?
	Let's see.
	A big flat.
	You know?
	Because she's from Mexico.
	Okay.
	She's Mexican.
	Right.
	And, um, you know, um, she said she's seen it in books and that, so.
	Oh, smokes.
	I don't know.
	This happened, now, when did this happen again?
	Monday.
	Monday.
	About 10 p.m.
	About when my show got started here, about 10 o'clock.
	Um, holy mackerel.
	Um.
	What's your current state of mind?
	I mean, you and I talked just for a few minutes before the program.
	I'm really scared right now, Art, because I didn't report it or anything.
	I know it's not human.
	Who would you normally report this to?
	To the state police in Ironwood.
	If you hit a deer, you would do that?
	Yeah.
	You got to call right away.
	And so you didn't call?
	No.
	Why not?
	Because I never seen nothing like that before, Art.
	I thought they would lock me up or something.
	It does not sound as though you've hit anything human, obviously.
	No, it can't be human by the hands and feet, so I'm not worried about that.
	Do you have... Maybe there's a law like if you go out and poach a deer or something, you know, you're gonna get
	arrested.
	Maybe if you hit something that's, you know, you know you can get arrested for.
	They don't normally arrest you for hitting a deer, do they?
	No, no.
	But I mean, if you go out and poach a deer or a bear, they're going to arrest you, right?
	Maybe this animal comes under that category.
	Well, if it is a Bigfoot, I don't think there are any laws specifically yet that cover anything that happens to a Bigfoot, as far as I know.
	I don't know.
	That's why I didn't call or report it or anything.
	What do you want done?
	I'd like for you, me and my wife, to get you two airline tickets.
	You come to where I'm at, and you look at it and say, yeah, that's that, and we'll just give it to you.
	I don't want nothing to do with it no more.
	I'm too scared.
	Now, I'm not a Bigfoot expert.
	I know some Bigfoot experts, to be sure.
	But I'm not one of them.
	I want you to understand that.
	I appreciate the invitation.
	We'd be far better off sending to you somebody like Robert W. Morgan who knows about Bigfoot than myself.
	I'm flattered you would ask.
	Listen, you sort of mentioned you might have some indication this creature could even still be alive down there in your fallout shelter.
	Right, my wife put a mirror to its nose and there was a little steam a little stupid. You know, on the mirror. So I'm not, that's,
	I don't know if it's in a coma or we just knocked it out real hard or what.
	Oh, he smokes, wow. This one, I'm scared, a kid, you know, because I got a five year old kid, you know, and I don't, I
	don't want him nowhere near around there. I don't want to be nowhere near around there, you know.
	The hair you described covered all the rest of its body.
	What about, what, what about the other one?
	What about the limbs?
	Can you describe them at all?
	They're big.
	They were twice the size of my leg.
	About the arms.
	Holy smokes.
	It's this big.
	We had to put it on the winch.
	We took its two arms and put it together.
	And then we wrapped the cable around there.
	And drug it back into the woods.
	It didn't leave any marks or anything.
	Is there any way you can estimate how much this might weigh?
	I think pretty close to about 700.
	700 pounds?
	It would be my estimate because me and my wife couldn't pick it up or anything.
	I couldn't even lift the lower half.
	Have you been going back down to the fallout shelter to check on it?
	We got more hair samples.
	That's about it.
	I'm not too concerned about it.
	I just want to get rid of it.
	I was thinking, just give it to you.
	Be done with it.
	I have no idea what I would do with it, Rob.
	I need to get an expert involved in this.
	I don't want a lot of people up because it's a remote area, but if you get a lot of people The neighbors are nosy around here.
	It's just going to spread like wildfire.
	So you're mostly worried that you're going to get in trouble, I guess, right?
	Right.
	I don't want to get locked up.
	Your wife feels the same way?
	Yeah, it's on the down low.
	No one knows about it, you know, because we tarped it over and we just backed it in.
	You know, no one knows.
	Now, would your area of Michigan normally, if you were out, is there any chance you would
	normally encounter a gorilla?
	you No.
	No.
	I didn't think so.
	You would see a bear?
	Or a deer?
	There's no way in the world this is a bear, right?
	No.
	No way.
	Not a bear.
	A bear smells a lot better.
	I come across a bear before.
	You know, there's no way this is up there.
	Then you realize how potentially serious what you're telling me is.
	Yes.
	You haven't told any other friends?
	Have you had anybody else over?
	Have you shown the body to anybody?
	No, no.
	That'd be crazy because they would just gossip it all over.
	It'd be all over.
	What do you think of the idea of calling a vet based on the concept that it might still be living?
	I would do that.
	You'd call a vet?
	Yeah.
	I think that might be a really good idea.
	Just first of all to at least find out if the animal is living or dead.
	Okay.
	Was there, in the way that your car hit it, Did you end up running over it?
	Did you end up knocking it?
	It almost put the car to a standstill.
	I got a 1975 Chrysler Newport.
	Right.
	And it almost put it to a standstill.
	It buckled the front hood up.
	It smashed the front bumper up into the grill work in that.
	Broke the front window.
	It did a lot of bad damage to the car.
	But she was able to get it What does your wife think you ought to do?
	It was only like two city blocks.
	What does your wife think you ought to do?
	She kind of just wants to get rid of it now too.
	Because she doesn't want everybody to think we're crazy or anything.
	You can usually trust medical people.
	So I was thinking that if you called a vet and you just sort of explained your situation
	that the vet might, and ask the vet to keep his or her mouth shut and come out and tell
	you what you've got on your hands.
	And perhaps even treat it if, you know, if there's any chance.
	It's still alive.
	You said you could almost tell it, you could almost see it breathing, didn't you?
	My wife did.
	She put a mirror up to its nose.
	Right.
	And there was some steam on the mirror.
	Have you seen it in the mouth?
	Does it have large teeth?
	Head like, maybe like horse's teeth or something.
	That's how I can describe it.
	Like horse's teeth.
	Holy smokes, Rob!
	Not too big.
	Maybe medium size.
	Do they look like the teeth of a meat eater?
	No.
	Vegetarian, probably.
	I wouldn't fear it would eat me or anything or eat my kid or anything.
	You know, maybe if it woke up or something, it might be freaked out.
	It might not be in the best of moods.
	Right.
	Because it got hit and that, you know.
	Is it okay?
	I mean, is it just lying down there at the bottom of this fallout shelter?
	Yeah, it's laying on its back right now.
	I guess it's comfortable.
	I don't know.
	How much blood and gore from the impact of your car was there?
	There was none.
	I think it broke maybe its leg and some ribs or something, but there was no blood or nothing until I cut part of its leg with the honey knife to get the blood for that blood sample.
	You were pretty sure it was dead at that point?
	Yeah, or else I wouldn't have drug it back into the woods or anything.
	And what you got was red blood, right?
	Now it was on a white shirt like a t-shirt my wife had in the car.
	Right.
	And then it turned kind of brown now.
	It was red when we absorbed it on the shirt.
	Now it turned kind of brown color.
	I don't know.
	All right.
	Here's what I think we ought to do in order.
	One, I think you should call a veterinarian.
	And see if you can solicit that person's confidence and get them to come and examine this creature.
	That's number one.
	Number two, I would like your permission to turn your name over to Robert W. Morgan and have him privately contact you.
	He's a Bigfoot researcher.
	Okay.
	And maybe Robert will want to, in fact I'm almost sure Robert is going to want to come and take a look.
	It will be all confidential, though.
	Certainly, yes.
	With respect to Robert W. Morgan, you bet it will.
	With respect to the veterinarian, you're going to have to use your own judgment there.
	But because the creature might be alive, it seems like the right thing to do.
	Yeah, that'd be the...
	The only right thing to do.
	You know, I would start, I would call a veterinarian and say, can I speak to you confidentially?
	You know, kind of like a professional relationship.
	Somebody to their lawyer, somebody to their doctor, that kind of thing.
	And will you keep my confidence?
	And once the vet says yes, then I would explain your story just the way you did to me.
	And I would think a veterinarian would probably jump at the opportunity.
	Perhaps.
	Do you know of any veterinarians that would keep it confidential?
	I would say you're going to have to look in your local telephone book there.
	I think some veterinarians might freak out and call the police.
	Then I'll be in trouble.
	You know, I don't think so.
	We really went through this with another case, and in your case, You didn't shoot the animal.
	But I hit it awful hard, Art.
	It almost put the cart to a dead stop.
	I know, I understand that.
	But in any case, as you have described it, it is an absolute accident.
	So I think the potential for you to be in trouble is very small indeed.
	Rob, listen, you proceed with that if you would.
	I'll be in touch with you tomorrow and we'll follow up on the story, okay?
	All right, bless your heart for coming on tonight, Rob, and say hi to your wife for me, all right?
	Okay.
	We'll be in touch.
	Okay.
	Take care.
	Bye-bye.
	Good night.
	Well, that's the way to start the night out.
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Top of the day.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 2nd, 2001.
	This is a song that I wrote in the early days of the band.
	It's a song that I wrote in the early days of the band.
	If you took all the girls that I knew well I would say oh my.
	Thank you for watching.
	We brought them all together for one night.
	I know they never match high street imagination.
	And everything looks worse in black and white.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 2, 2001.
	Marilyn Schlitz, Ph.D. Director of Research at the Institute of Noetic Sciences
	and Senior Scientist at the Complementary Medicine Research Institute at the California Pacific Medical Center
	is going to be my guest at the top of the hour, and she's a real heavyweight.
	She'll be talking about all kinds of PSI abilities.
	So, that's directly, actually directly ahead are open lines.
	So, get ready for that.
	Got a kind of an interesting story here from Newfoundland.
	Fisherman Gerald Hackett apparently is shown in a link we've got on our website examining the remains of an unknown sea creature that washed up near Fortune Bay fishing community of St.
	Bernard's within the past few days.
	The creature has long matted white fur and a smell even a hardened fisherman had trouble dealing with.
	The locals here call it the monster.
	Any word yet on the monster?
	They ask each other, looking to the sea for some possible answer.
	We people have never seen the likes of it before.
	Never.
	Fishermen mutter the word monster with smirks on their faces.
	Grown men with leather for skin and salt water for spit talking about creatures from the bottom of Fortune Bay.
	Monster?
	Isn't a word that flows freely from their lips?
	Not when there are no youngsters handy.
	But what else is there to call it the dead thing that rests on Paltry Beach?
	The hair is the biggest puzzle, said Ed Hutter, the fisherman who found it.
	What's hair doing on any kind of fish?
	Paltry is a stretch of coastline about 20 kilometers west of here.
	A 40-minute speedboat ride past pods of humpbacks and schools of mackerel.
	Hodder 42 has a lone shanty on the beach.
	A jockey often stays in to be closer to his cod and flounder nets.
	On Saturday, he steered his boat to shore and he spied what he thought was an overturned dory.
	Only it wasn't a boat, but a creature.
	Measuring about seven meters in length, covered in coarse white hair, the length of an average man's hand, it looked like nothing he'd ever seen before.
	It says it weighs three or four tons.
	The monster, in quotes, has what appears to be skeletal structure consisting of the backbone ribs, though it's impossible to tell which end is which.
	There's no obvious head.
	And only a suggestion of limbs.
	Flaps of flesh on either side could just as well be ears as fins.
	The stench of rot has made the hardest of fishermen there wretch.
	No seagulls fly anywhere near it.
	So if you want to see the entire story, go to my website, artbell.com.
	Let's see.
	You go to Science News and Other Links, and if everything is as it should be, when it comes up, yes, let's see.
	Actually, I don't see it.
	It's supposed to be there somewhere.
	I see Utah Divers Rescue Dinosaur Footprints, that's interesting, and other things, but I don't quite see it yet, so it's probably there someplace or another.
	That's where it's going to be anyway, up in the Science News, according to Keith.
	I just spoke with him.
	Interesting stuff going on.
	Here's one for you.
	It would appear that there's been a UFO sighting, if I can find the darn thing.
	As a matter of fact, I put it aside to read as the second item tonight.
	And yeah, here we go.
	Stevens Point, Wisconsin.
	So up into that part of the country we go again.
	A radio station there has reported receiving over 200 phone calls since this morning from local people who claim to have seen a UFO in the area last night.
	They are describing the object as a hazy, green light moving across the sky.
	Some witnesses have mentioned that it may have pulsated Changed shades of green, or had a red light on bottom.
	The radio station has been in contact with Volk Field, the local Air Force station.
	The Air Force did not report any radar contacts, but admitted that they were not actively scanning the sky last night.
	Local TV station, WAOW, Channel 9, ABC in Wausau, apparently is going to be covering the story as well, though, I'm at work, my emailer says, and will not be able to see it.
	I was driving home from work from Wausau, Wisconsin to Stevens Point, Wisconsin last night, but I did not see anything remarkable in the sky.
	Nevertheless, 200 people reportedly did, so I thought I'd let you all know about that.
	Let's go to the phones, open lines, anything goes till the top of the hour.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi, turn your radio off for me, please.
	Francis in Turkey.
	Hello, Francis.
	Hi, how are you?
	The fellow with the big foot, if he had to lift it up with a winch, and now he has the Y2K fallout shelter.
	That's what he said.
	How did he get it in there?
	I imagine he winched it down there, just the way he winched it up.
	If you have a fallout shelter, do you have a two-door fallout shelter?
	Yeah, a lot of people would have.
	I mean, if you make a storm cellar, a lot of those are.
	So I would imagine it wouldn't be much different than that, particularly if it's homemade.
	Oh, okay.
	It just seems kind of... If it was that big, that he could... What did he say, it was 700 pounds?
	It's probably laying on its back now.
	Yeah, well, I can imagine that you would have a fallout shelter that would be plenty big enough to do that.
	Okay.
	So I sense in your voice you don't believe him, huh?
	Well, if you have something that big, I don't see how you can maneuver it around and have it naturally Laying on its back.
	If the guy's offering to send me airline tickets to come out there and get this thing, which of course, yeah, I can see me trying to get that on a United flight, you know.
	Well, if I have it on that, it'll get along well.
	Okay.
	Somehow, though, I believe his story.
	Thank you very much.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Turn off your radio, please.
	Hello?
	Hello?
	Is this Art Bell?
	Yes, it would be, uh, Art Bell.
	Hi there, how you doing?
	Okay, where are you?
	I am in Virginia.
	Okay.
	I drive a truck.
	Oh, you're in a truck.
	All right.
	I wanted to talk about Sylvia Brown.
	All right.
	I just wanted to say that when I was 16, I attempted suicide, and I didn't get very far.
	And I had this weird feeling, and I had a thought that if I did, that I'd have to come back and start all over again where I left off, right?
	Well, I think that's what generally is thought to be the case with suicides and reincarnation, yes.
	Right.
	But I didn't know anything about reincarnation or anything like that.
	And I just... I love her so much, and I've read all of her books, and I think she's so cool.
	She is something else.
	There's no question about that.
	It's something else.
	And the thing about it is, like, ten years later, I was walking through the living room, and one of my relatives was watching Montel Williams.
	And she said that.
	She said, well, what happened is God is forgiving God, but he, you know, you'll have to go right back and start all over.
	Well, you're probably like a little fish that a fisherman catches and looks at and goes, ah, this one's going back, back in the water again.
	And so I have a feeling that's probably what happens.
	It's probably what happens anyway, but it's probably in that case rather immediate.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello?
	Hello.
	How are you doing?
	I'm doing okay, sir.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Allentown, Pennsylvania.
	And in a vehicle?
	Yes, I am, unfortunately.
	Okay, go ahead.
	How are you doing?
	Okay, sir.
	All right, glad to hear you're back.
	The caller about the Bigfoot, I think it might be a little bit better idea to have him call his local zoo.
	They got a lot of veterinarians to work at zoos and stuff like that.
	I'm sure they'd be able to... Okay, well, I don't want to give away where he is, because he didn't want to say that, but he's in a very, very small town.
	Excluded area, yeah.
	I understand that.
	No zoo.
	I suppose, you know, if you went to one of the major cities there, you'd find something, but offhand, no zoo near him.
	Yeah, yeah, that's what I was thinking.
	Maybe being the zoo has a lot of animals, different things, I'm sure they got a lot of Yeah, all I can say is keep your eyes on the road, huh?
	How about it?
	Hey, I'm driving a dirt bike.
	I gotta watch all that stuff.
	It's great to hear you back again, Art.
	All right, thank you very much and take care.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello.
	This is Tawasi calling from, I believe it's K-Howe Country?
	That would be near Denver, yes.
	Yes, indeed.
	And I was calling because I heard in the news that the Bush energy plan passed the House.
	All right.
	Are you referring to the drilling in Anwar?
	No.
	The Bush energy plan has already passed the Senate.
	Passed the House.
	All right.
	Well, I don't know about the Senate.
	Are you sure the Senate?
	Yeah, they ran it through the Senate before Jeffords came in.
	That was the qualifier.
	Wow.
	I see this hour's top story as the Patients' Bill of Rights being passed, but I have not seen the entire energy package that had gone through.
	I think that they might have to go through a review committee But I'm pretty sure it went through the House and Senate version.
	I'm pretty sure it went through the Senate already.
	I'm not sure on the specifics on it, but man, it's pretty alarming.
	The whole 20-year plan for one power plant a week, every week for 20 years.
	I'm not happy with it.
	You know, I'm not happy with the direction that his planning is taking us.
	I think that we're at a critical juncture where we still need gas, we need oil.
	I'm a realist.
	But we also had better get busy on alternative sources or we're dead meat.
	I think that's a great part of that disclosure show.
	I just heard the pre-feed of it this evening.
	Right.
	And I think it's great and all, but you know, We could start living it right now.
	I mean, for a long time I lived in the Northwest, and up there you see people on bikes en masse.
	Seems like, you know, power from the people.
	Power from the people.
	Sure.
	All right, sir, I appreciate your call.
	Thank you.
	Yes, I'm not particularly pleased with the direction that we're going.
	We seem to be limiting it almost to the oil and gas route, which I acknowledge we need in the short term.
	But in the long term, We absolutely have got to have something different than what we've got right now, or not very far down the road, it's all going to be gone and we're not going to have any more gas and oil.
	And then what?
	High prices, wars, all kinds of nasty things begin to happen.
	So we need to begin planning now for when we're not going to have it, and we don't seem to be doing that.
	West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	Well, I'm calling from Colville, Washington.
	This is Reba calling at 1240 AM on the dial.
	Right.
	And I'm calling to tell you that I saw a UFO last night when I was walking my dog.
	Last night?
	Yes.
	It was at 906 and I tried to get through the line but I wasn't able to.
	You know what?
	We're having a real flap of all kinds of things going on right now.
	A lot of sightings like the one I read to you just before you got on the air tonight.
	Up in Stevens Point, Wisconsin, 200 people reporting to authorities and radio stations.
	They saw a UFO.
	What did you see, Reba?
	What I saw was my, let's see, my house faces to the north.
	And my dog and I went out the driveway, and then we turned right, which would be headed east.
	And this was traveling in a north-north-easterly direction.
	And it was a white or a yellow-white light.
	Yes.
	There was no blinking or anything like that.
	And... Was it going fairly rapidly?
	Oh, yeah.
	Oh, yes.
	You know, you may have seen the International Space Station.
	Well, the thing is that it was the size... You know the straight pins that have the round balls on the end of them?
	Yes.
	If Ramona sows, you've seen those laying around.
	Sure.
	If I held one of those at the end, and it had the large round end on it, that's how big it was.
	That's pretty big.
	Yeah.
	And like I said, there was no blinking, no flashing, no nothing.
	The International Space Station right now is roughly almost as bright as Venus, if you catch it at the right time.
	It's just about as bright as Venus.
	You don't think that was it?
	No.
	All right.
	Did this thing just keep on?
	Yes.
	It was cloudy last night, but you could see the moon in between the clouds.
	Off and on, the clouds were moving at a pretty good clip.
	Was this thing passing behind the clouds?
	Yes, in fact, that's when I lost sight of it.
	I saw it when I was headed east.
	I saw it when it was probably in the 2 o'clock position.
	And I was able to watch it until it was at the 12 o'clock position.
	And that's when I lost sight of it because there was a huge cloud that it went behind.
	Were there any other reports in your town to media or the police, do you know?
	This is a pretty small town, Art.
	There's only one other gal that I've ever heard call from here.
	I haven't heard her for quite a while, but I was hoping that she might have seen it.
	Not as far as I know.
	We have a local paper that comes out once every Tuesday.
	Other than that, I don't have TV and I don't have a computer, or you would have heard from me for sure.
	But I do have my radio.
	I didn't hear anything on the local news.
	Also, I have another thing to say.
	Shame on Ian Punnett.
	Did you leave on a Thursday or Friday for your vacation?
	Also, I have another thing to say.
	Shame on Ian Punnett because the Sunday following your leaving, I think, did you leave on a
	Thursday or Friday for your vacation?
	I don't even remember now.
	Okay, well he had a professor on the radio following your leaving and I was fortunate
	enough to get to speak with her.
	She has devised a machine called the Aura Meter, which is going to come out around a year from now.
	And I'm excited about it.
	I had asked him, made a request before I spoke with her, for you to please contact Gordon Michael Scullion because I felt that that's someone you had developed a rapport with because I just felt something really bad was going to happen while you were on vacation.
	Well, that's not going too far out on a limb, considering all the history of my vacations.
	So tell him not to be so skeptical.
	When someone calls in, take it serious.
	Alright, bless your heart.
	Thank you, Art.
	Thank you, and take care.
	One of you psychics out there should have warned me.
	Art, don't go on vacation.
	I don't have a good history with vacations.
	I mean, I've got a really, really bad history.
	For those who have been listening for, you know, a lot of years, you know that.
	Something always, always happens.
	Something of great magnitude occurs when I go on vacation.
	Either me or others of the world.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Yeah, hi Art.
	Hello.
	Uh, you were, uh... You had a hurt back.
	I'm sorry to hear about that.
	That's alright, sir.
	I'm not talking about my back anymore.
	I know.
	It's kind of boring to most everybody.
	To me, it's an immediate crisis, but to everybody else, who wants to hear about somebody else's ills?
	What's on your mind, sir?
	He did a show a few months back about a guy that, what was it?
	He was going to blast off on a rocket.
	Oh, the Rocket Man!
	Yes.
	Yes.
	Did he ever do that?
	Well, no, he's not going to do it until, if I remember correctly, uh, what did he say, the fall or now the spring?
	I think maybe the spring.
	Okay, and what, and then one more thing.
	I'm going to go and watch the launch.
	Oh, are you?
	Or the detonation, whichever it turns out to be.
	Okay, what about the guy with the time machine?
	Oh, which guy?
	I've had a lot of guys with time machines.
	The one that stole the Transformers.
	Oh!
	Well, he's disappeared long, long ago, sir.
	He's just gone.
	Madman Markham is who you're talking about.
	Yes.
	Yeah, he's long gone.
	To where we know not.
	I suspect he's either a pile of dust on the floor someplace, or he's in a completely different time.
	I see.
	Okay.
	One or the other.
	All right, you have a good day.
	Okay, sir, thank you.
	Without a lot of time, you're on the air.
	Uh, wildcard line, hello.
	Hi, Art.
	It's Paul in San Francisco.
	Howdy.
	Hey, Art, you know when your show's, like, late at night and really mysterious and strange?
	Yeah.
	That'd be a good time to hear the, like, you play, um, little ballerina blue for bumper music.
	Oh, yes, I still do.
	It's been a long time since I've heard that.
	Seems like months.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	No, I play that.
	It's not all that rare that I play that.
	Well, maybe it's a little bit rare, but not too rare.
	So, I'll tell you what, we're coming toward the top of the hour right now.
	Your wish is my command.
	How's that?
	Thanks, sir.
	All right, say good morning to everybody.
	Morning, everybody.
	Live from San Francisco.
	All right.
	Good night.
	And when we come back, we're going to have quite a number of hours ahead.
	I suggest you stay planted in your seat.
	A Marilyn Schlitz, Dr. Schlitz, Director of Research at the Institute of Noetic Sciences, and so much more is going to be my guest.
	A real heavyweight.
	Keep it right where you've got it.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 2, 2001.
	The Coast to Coast AM concert, in the City of San Francisco, California, was held on August 2, 2001.
	The concert was performed by the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra and the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra.
	Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired August 2, 2001.
	Coming up in a moment, we've got a real heavyweight, Marilyn Schlitz, coming up.
	Director of Research at the Institute of Noetic Sciences.
	Lots and lots to say about things you can't see and can't feel and can't exactly touch or taste.
	But they're very, very real.
	That's all coming up in a moment.
	Let's stay right there.
	Dr. Marilyn Schlitz is Director of Research at the Institute of Noetic Sciences and Senior
	Scientist at the Complementary Medicine Research Institute at the California Pacific Medical
	Center.
	Marilyn received her doctorate in anthropology from the University of Texas, Austin, completed a postdoctoral fellowship in psychology at Stanford, has published numerous articles on PSI research and Psychophysiology.
	I think that's right.
	Cross-cultural healing.
	Consciousness studies and creativity.
	She's conducted research at Stanford University, Science Applications and International Corporation, the Institute for Parapsychology, and the Mind Science Foundation, and in field settings to include the West Indies, South America, the rural US, has taught at Trinity University, Stanford University, and Harvard Medical School, ...has lectured widely, including talks at the United Nations and the Smithsonian Institution.
	My, my!
	She serves as a member of the Advisory Council for the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine at the NIH, is on the Editorial Board of Alternative Therapies and Advances in Mind-Body Medicine, serves on the Board of Directors for Esalen Institute and the Institute of Noetic Sciences, is on the Scientific Program Committee for the Tucson Center for Consciousness Studies.
	Her primary research interest concerns an examination of the underlying assumptions guiding our modern view of reality.
	Whew!
	That's pretty heavy stuff.
	Dr. Schlitz, welcome.
	Thank you very much.
	Great to have you.
	Where are you now?
	I'm in Petaluma, California.
	Petaluma, okay.
	Just on the edge of the wine country.
	Indeed so.
	How in the world did you get yourself pointed in all of these directions?
	Oh gosh, that's a long story.
	Let's see.
	I guess I was always, I grew up in Detroit, Michigan in the 60s and 70s and it was a time of rebellion and sort of challenging authority and questioning assumptions.
	Sure it was.
	I remember it.
	That was a fertile time for all of us, I think.
	Yes, indeed.
	And so I had the opportunity to go to an undergraduate program at Wayne State University and the curriculum was really around the idea of revolutions in thought.
	So we really looked at the ways in which our model of reality changes, you know, every hundred years, or now it's been accelerating so that the worldview is changing more rapidly, but the idea that what we assume to be hard and fast rules about the nature of reality have actually changed over time, and that excited me.
	I thought, hmm, you know, we may be capable of many more things than the dominant worldview allows for.
	So that got me interested in things like parapsychology and the study of remote viewing.
	These were ideas that I thought serious scientists were looking at with rigor, and yet they were things that didn't fit within the dominant view of what was possible.
	So that excited me.
	More than a little fascinated with remote viewing.
	I view it as absolutely real.
	I mean, what they do appears to be real.
	I know of no other way to put it.
	It seems a genuine... What is even the right word for it?
	Is it a... Capacity?
	A human capacity?
	I guess capacity.
	Most remote viewers will say that everybody Oh, I think that it's just like any other talent.
	Probably we can all play the piano more or less.
	Some people happen to be better at it.
	Some people happen to be inherently better at it.
	I think that it is something like that.
	I think some people are virtuoso.
	Well, you know, when I entered this field and I sort of slid from the kind of show I was doing over a decade ago now, well over a decade, into this kind of a program, I would have to be considered a gigantic skeptic.
	I mean, I was really a big skeptic.
	Fascinated, but a big skeptic.
	Over the years, I've talked to so many remote viewers, had so much to do with that whole original group that was in the government program, that I have become a believer.
	I've just seen too much, and I know too much, and I know that it's real, but how anybody can view over an infinite distance, whether it be on the way to the moon, or in Russia, or anywhere else in the world, either an object Or even a person, and come back with accurate information.
	How that happens still, to some degree, eludes me.
	Yeah, it's a great mystery.
	I think it eludes everyone.
	I think the skeptical attitude is a good one.
	Open-minded skepticism.
	It used to be the Greeks talked about the skeptics were the people who didn't know the answers.
	And it was the dogmatists who were the ones who absolutely had all the answers, and the skeptics were open-minded.
	So it's that definition of skeptic that I like.
	It's challenging our assumptions, questioning what's true and what's not, but keeping a really open mind about what's possible.
	Now knowing what you know, how would you class yourself at the moment?
	Oh, I would say I'm an open-minded skeptic about overall issues related to consciousness.
	The remote viewing data I think are highly compelling.
	I mean, I agree with you that I worked in the early SRI program in the remote viewing program and had the opportunity to do a number of experiments over the years all the way up until a couple years ago.
	Really?
	In what way were you involved?
	I was involved as an experimenter.
	I designed and conducted a number of published experiments in remote viewing.
	I was also involved as a remote viewer.
	I in fact did a couple of experiments.
	The strongest experiment in the literature is one that I was involved as a viewer.
	Can you tell us about that?
	I had no idea you were actually involved as a viewer.
	Yeah, both.
	We tried to design the experiment so that rather than separating ourselves and studying some subject out there, we thought it probably would be a good idea to learn a little bit about the phenomenon ourselves.
	So we designed the experiment so that the experimenters could actually be the participants in the study.
	And then we had to take extra precautions to make sure that we ruled out all the things that people might say like cheating or errors.
	The one experiment that I referred to was done in 1980 and it was done between Michigan and Rome, Italy.
	So it was Detroit and Rome.
	And what happened in that experiment is that the outbound person collected 40 geographical locations or target sites.
	And we then agreed that on ten separate days he would visit one of those sites randomly selected from the pool and I would describe my impressions of where he was at that time.
	We then collected all of my impressions and his ten sites and mixed them all up so that they were in a random order and we presented them to five judges, five objective people who weren't part of the experiment.
	Fair enough.
	And their goal was to evaluate it, to see whether we were just like, you know, if you look at clouds and somebody says, I see a seahorse, everybody sees a seahorse.
	Okay, so you say, how many of the remote viewers were there?
	In this case, there was one remote viewer, one outbound experimenter, and five judges.
	And five judges.
	And so the judge's job was to see how close the remote viewer's impressions matched.
	Yeah, you kept saying we, so I thought perhaps it was another remote viewer.
	But in this case, you were the remote viewer.
	In this case, yes.
	And what we found was six direct hits out of ten, which gave us probabilities of about four times in a million that you'd expect these results.
	So, for example... Six out of ten direct hits.
	Now, yes, as an example, you would draw one.
	For example, one day the impression was of a strong depth of field, little blue lights, things shooting up in the air.
	I wanted to say an airport.
	Then said there were holes in the ground and sort of standing back from the scene.
	As it turns out, the outbound person had randomly selected the Rome International Airport and he was standing in a field where there were holes in the ground where clandestine diggers had been digging for Roman coins.
	No kidding!
	So we got the holes, we got the little blue lights, we got the things shooting up in the air, the strong depth of field would be the runway.
	And that airport, so it was really very easy for the judges to then match that.
	Were you an experienced remote viewer at that juncture?
	I don't know if experienced, but I had started doing experiments in about 77, really when Targon put out the book Mind Reach came out.
	So you were experienced?
	A little bit, yeah, and we'd been playing with it, kind of dabbling with it.
	Not a complete neophyte?
	No.
	Six out of ten hits.
	Gee whiz.
	As you point out, four out of a million.
	The possibility of that, if not greater, I would think.
	That's just astounding.
	We then replicated that study.
	You replicated it?
	Yeah, with another, and actually Hal Putoff has told me that our experiment happened at exactly the right time in terms of the SRI program because You know, there were some doubts, and suddenly an independent person had come in and replicated this, and published it in a peer-reviewed journal, and it gave them a big boost in their program.
	It was about that time that I got involved as a consultant for the SRI program.
	How were the judges affected?
	I would assume certainly they were, at the very least, skeptical, prepared to be fair, but certainly skeptical.
	How were they affected?
	When they saw six out of ten hits, that would have to affect those who were judging.
	Yeah, I mean, I think that, actually, I think the judges were fairly open-minded people.
	I don't think we had recruited anybody who was so skeptical that they wouldn't give us the time.
	But I think anybody, when you see this kind of anomaly happen, and you see it so clearly, it can shake up your worldview.
	It really can, because we aren't taught that these things are possible.
	That's exactly what it does.
	It shakes up your worldview.
	I absolutely agree with you.
	By what means do you think the human mind is able to do this?
	Do you have any clue?
	Even a best guess I'll take.
	Yeah, I think of this skit by Monty Python about Anne Elk and having a theory.
	You know, my theory is.
	But what we're learning is that there is a whole new model of science that's emerging.
	And it's about complexity and self-organization and nonlinear dynamics and quantum mechanics and nonlocality.
	All these things I think are converging to suggest that consciousness and the physical world are engaged in ways we hadn't understood before, and that perhaps our consciousness is able to actually cause changes in the physical world, or to engage in the physical world in ways that aren't strictly cause and effect in the ways we've understood them before.
	To cause changes in the physical world.
	Now, that's a pretty interesting one.
	Well, I think about healing.
	You mentioned my background in anthropology.
	If you look around the world, people believe that they have practitioners in their communities who are able to cause changes in the physical condition of a person, even at a distance.
	That's right.
	So what's that all about?
	Is that possible, or are they just having wishful thinking?
	I don't know.
	I remain rather skeptical of that.
	Not close-minded, but still skeptical.
	Well, what we try to do is keep a skeptical attitude and bring it into a laboratory setting.
	So we set up a series of experiments.
	We actually created a model of healing.
	I did this work at the Mind Science Foundation initially and now at the Institute of Noetic Sciences where we were interested in looking at the possibility that, for example, you and I might participate in an experiment and I would monitor your physiology, say your heart rate, for example.
	And I would be in another room and at random times throughout a session I would attempt to influence your physiology.
	I might attempt to arouse you, you know, excite your physiology so that we'd see a difference in your physiology when I'm intending for you as compared to control conditions.
	How about something less personally embarrassing like perhaps just raising my heartbeat?
	Yes.
	Well, it's all about, yes, the idea of accelerating the physiology in some way.
	Just some way to measure a difference.
	Okay, I'll buy into that.
	And what did you find?
	After all, we are having a slumber party.
	Sure, that's true.
	Well, what we found in a series of 13 experiments was that it appears that one person can influence another person's physiology, even at a distance, And even under double-blind conditions.
	What this suggested to us is that there is sort of a proof of principle that these distant healers are actually able to cause changes in another person.
	We then moved it into another sphere, which is clinical studies.
	Did the, may I ask, did the subjects have any idea what would be attempted?
	Yes.
	People, in all of the experiments that I've done over the last 20 years, we've always had informed consent.
	What they don't know is when the influence periods will happen and when the control periods will happen.
	So we keep these experiments blinded so that we can rule out conventional explanations like wishful thinking.
	Sure.
	And the results?
	And the results are highly significant.
	In other words, we're finding significant differences in autonomic nervous system activity When a person is being intended for as compared to the control conditions.
	It doesn't work every time, but let me just give you an example of why this is important and relevant.
	Please.
	We just completed a couple of studies.
	This was done under the direction of Dr. Elizabeth Targ, and she and our team of colleagues through the Institute of Pneumatic Sciences and California Pacific Medical Center were interested in whether distant healers could influence AIDS patients.
	So this was a group of patients that, in terms of our Western medical knowledge, weren't doing too well at the time when we initiated this study.
	And you were attempting to influence in what manner?
	To help them, to increase their healing potential, to increase their immune system's response to the virus, to decrease the number of days in hospital, to decrease the number of visits to the doctor, To decrease the number of secondary infections.
	All these things that we would say are healing responses.
	Well, I would imagine that you could, for example, have a T cell check, right?
	Yes.
	After you had attempted influence, and what did you find?
	Exactly.
	And what we found in both a pilot study and a confirmation study was that people were significantly healthier if they were in the distant healing group, even if they didn't know they were in the distant healing group.
	So, in other words, if everybody got standard care and one group got a little booster, which is this distant healing intention, they appear to do better under randomized, double-blind conditions.
	Is there any way you would delineate what you've done from prayer?
	Well, I think prayer is a category that we're studying.
	I think people call it different things and different traditions.
	Whether it's a healing intention or whether it's a meditation.
	Do you think it makes any difference in practical effect whether you call it prayer and what you do in fact is prayer or whether you do remote healing which is almost really remote influencing?
	I think it's an empirical question that we haven't gotten enough data yet to answer.
	In the experiment with the AIDS patients for example We used healers from every tradition you can imagine.
	We had Carmelite nuns, Buddhist monks, we had shamans, we had Wiccans, we had fundamentalist Christians.
	Our goal was really to try and cross the various traditions with the idea that if you can hold a compassionate intention for the well-being of another person, that probably provides a bridge across the various You know, agendas or programs or belief systems.
	So it doesn't matter who you call God or whether you even call God, right?
	It doesn't look like it.
	It looks like just holding the most positive, beneficial outlook for another person is what's important.
	Boy, that's going to cause some people to think pretty hard out there.
	Doctor, hold it right where you are and we'll be right back.
	This is one of those breaks we talked about.
	Great, thank you.
	Here we go.
	Well, what do you think, folks?
	If it isn't in God's name, should it work?
	You're listening to ArcBell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 2nd, 2001.
	This is a clip from the first episode of Coast to Coast.
	You need direction, yeah, you need a name when you're standing at the crossroads.
	You'll be high, we'll be the same.
	After a while, you'll get to recognize the signs.
	So if you get wrong, you'll... You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 2nd, 2001.
	Did you know that the institute that Marilyn Schlitz has The Institute of Melodic Sciences was founded by Dr. Edgar Mitchell, one of the Apollo astronauts.
	Just a little fact for you.
	Good morning.
	We're talking about things that you can't see, touch, or understand unless you listen awfully carefully, and even then, you may not be so sure.
	Stay right where you are.
	It all continues.
	Doctor, so there would be two possibilities then, at least, and one would be that those who pray to God are actually accessing this non-local force that's out there, that I think remote viewers call it, and, or, the other way around, it may well be that remote viewers are accessing their information through what, in reality, is a God force.
	Either one of those possibilities are there, aren't they?
	I think so.
	I mean, I think that there are different things going on and I wouldn't want to say that we are trying to deconstruct all of religion and belief in God through these experiments.
	This is just a tiny little glimpse into A tiny aspect of what is being revealed about the hole.
	Well, you know, there have been controlled double-blind experiments with regard to people praying for people who are ill.
	Exactly.
	And they have worked out quite shockingly and surprisingly as well.
	That's right.
	There's a couple of very interesting studies that involve cardiology patients, for example.
	One done here in San Francisco with patients coming in and either they were randomized into either a prayed-for group or a non-prayed-for group.
	And what they found is that the outcome measures on a variety of different health variables was much better for the prayed-for group.
	We just participated in a study, this is through the Institute of Noetic Sciences, that we helped to conduct a study through Duke University, through their medical school, and another cardiologist, Mitch Krukoff, who did what he calls the Mantra Study.
	And this is what involves using, he calls them, noetic interventions.
	These are therapeutic touch, guided imagery, and distant prayer.
	And all of the people would come into the hospital in a cardiac emergency, and they would agree to participate in the study.
	And what that meant is that they would be randomized into one of four arms.
	Either they would get standard cardiology, Western medicine alone, Or they would get that plus one of these noetic interventions.
	And what he found is that in all cases the noetic interventions were better than standard care alone.
	And the group that stood out were the prayed for groups, which suggests that there's something very powerful about Holding a compassionate positive image for another person.
	Is there any way to compare those results with the ones you obtained with what was remote viewing or influencing?
	That's a really good question.
	I think a couple things might be happening.
	One is that when we're talking about remote viewing it tends to be more of a I think that's true.
	of information coming in.
	Gathering of information.
	Whereas the other appears to be more causal in the sense of intention directed toward
	another.
	Indeed, although in the area of remote healing I think there could be a good comparison made.
	I think that's true.
	I think it's probably a mixture of different things going on, but certainly if you as the
	receiver, and I would invite everybody listening that we know you're having back pain, that
	if they just intend and hold a positive thought for your back, we can just see if your back
	feels better by the end of the evening.
	I'll go for that.
	But is that about people sending something to you, or is that about you being responsive in the same way you would if you were doing a remote viewing trial?
	Are you picking up on the information, or is it both?
	I don't know, but the studies would seem to suggest that that can be accomplished whether or not the intended recipient is aware.
	The healing work, you mean?
	Yes.
	Certainly our experiments, again, they involve informed consent.
	We always make sure people know they're participating in a study.
	They don't know which condition they're going to be in in the study, but we always make sure that they are aware that they're participating.
	Okay, well I'm aware, so if people want to give it a shot, give it a shot.
	There you go.
	Be my guest.
	This is our online experiment.
	Dr. Edgar Mitchell founded the Institute of Noetic Sciences, is that correct?
	That's right.
	In 1973, you started the show talking about telescopes and the opportunity to explore outer space.
	That's right.
	The Institute of Noetic Sciences was really born out of that vision of exploration.
	It came when Edgar was the pilot who was responsible for the little shuttle that went between the
	Apollo capsule and the moon.
	So his job was to take the crew over to the moon, walk around there, do the data collection
	they did, get back in, and on the way home, his job was done, so he got to have the window
	seat.
	And in this position, he was able to look out and to see Earth from the vantage point
	of deep space.
	And he had an overwhelming epiphany, you know, he saw awe and wonder and suddenly all of
	his training as an MIT-trained engineer, mastering the physical world, seemed inadequate to understand
	The possibilities of life.
	I've interviewed Dr. Mitchell extensively and I must tell you, some of what he has said has just really shocked me.
	I don't know if you had an opportunity to hear any of those interviews.
	I haven't, I'm sorry.
	Okay, well did you talk to him about what he felt and the emotions he felt and so forth when he was actually on the moon?
	Yeah, I've heard many stories from Edgar and it's just remarkable.
	You asked me at the beginning how I got into all this.
	Well, the way I got into it was I was doing an internship with a psychophysiologist and one day he handed me a book called Psychic Exploration by Edgar Mitchell the Astronaut.
	That was in 1977.
	I now work at the Institute of Noetic Sciences that Edgar Mitchell founded and I never applied for my job.
	It came to me.
	So it's kind of a wonderful, circuitous thing about Edgar's journey and my journey being intertwined in this magical way, and I think he's done remarkable things for helping us to see ourselves differently, and certainly to see the Earth differently.
	Yeah, you're quite correct.
	I mean, something absolutely happened to Dr. Mitchell in that travel to the moon.
	Really?
	A lot of the astronauts, really.
	Profound.
	You're right about that also.
	In all cases, not positive things.
	A lot of the astronauts have had a lot of troubles.
	That's right.
	Reintegrating.
	Reintegrating, yes, indeed.
	And again, I think our culture doesn't provide a context for these kind of transformative experiences.
	There's somebody I talked to recently who called it the overview effect.
	But being that far away from the Earth and looking at the Earth in that way, from that distance, appears to have an effect on people that is hard to quantify.
	It's hard to even, I guess, for us to understand.
	Well, also, Edgar tells stories about landing on these aircraft carriers in the ocean.
	Right.
	And how stressful it is to land on one of those as compared to how stressful it was
	to land on the moon where you had a big target.
	And I thought, wow, this guy really has nerves of steel.
	And then combine that very pragmatic, rational scientist who was able and confident enough
	in Western scientific technology to take him to the moon and to come back and to realize
	that that's not the full story and that really reality may be something much more complex
	than just the physical.
	Well, here's one thing for us all to consider.
	Uh, the kind of man that Edgar Mitchell is now, uh, would not have been allowed on an Apollo mission.
	I mean, if he had expressed his views, as we've heard them in the years since, I doubt he would have gone on that mission in the first place.
	Yeah, that's probably true.
	Yeah.
	Mm-hmm.
	So, something very interesting happened to him, and, uh, I understand he also did some experiments.
	That's right.
	He did an EFP experiment, actually, from the moon.
	Do you know how that turned out?
	Uh, it turned out with significant results.
	They talk about the two tails of the probability distribution in statistics, so you either get hitting or missing in these kinds of experiments, and what he got was significant missing, actually.
	He got less hits than expected on the basis of chance, but he got statistically less hits, so he ended up with a statistically significant experiment, which suggested that there was some, maybe, inhibitory effect.
	of trying to send from a long distance like that.
	Oh, now is that interesting.
	Because most people I've heard talk in this field have said that non-locality is completely independent, as far as they can see, of both time and space.
	It appears that way, but we don't really have the data to say for sure.
	Because Ed's experiment is the only one that's been done from outer space, as best I know.
	And even if we talk about the circumference of the Earth, there are only a couple of studies that attempted it And none of them, sort of, with the current level of sophistication that we're capable of today.
	So I would really love to see somebody do a systematic study of distance as it relates to psi and the psi signal.
	There does not... Well, if, for example, the problem was that the Earth, in effect, was in the way, in other words, the Moon was not at the horizon, then one would have to imagine that an experiment from one side of the Earth to the other would have the same difficulty.
	Yeah, I don't know.
	I mean, this would be something interesting to talk to Edgar about in terms of what, you know, what the astrophysics conditions were for the experiment.
	Are you still recruiting people for experimentation?
	We sure are.
	We have some really exciting experiments on the Institute of Noetic Sciences website, actually.
	Well, you know what?
	Somebody just wrote to me.
	I've got a computer sitting next to me, and I get instant messages.
	They call them a fast blast.
	And somebody from Chula Vista, California, George, writes, I just tried out your guest's webpage and found the tests very stimulating and fun.
	What are they?
	Great!
	What are they?
	Well, Dean Radin, who I think you've had on your show, Dean Radin is a scientist who has been working on parapsychology and developing very interesting games that are also experiments that we have on the website.
	So if people want to check it out, it's www.noetic.org.
	We've got a link up.
	You just go to tonight's guest and the link will be right there.
	That's great.
	What's there?
	What are the tests?
	Well, there's a lot of stuff there.
	In terms of the Institute of Noetic Sciences, we are many things and I'd love to fill you in on some of that.
	But the experiments in particular are opportunities for people to explore their own telepathic ability or their own precognitive ability.
	And you can actually get a score that shows how well you did compared to everybody else.
	Really?
	We've had millions of trials.
	By the end of this month, the experiment will be a year old.
	And we expect to have collected more than 4 million trials.
	And the results are showing some very interesting patterns about the role of belief, for example.
	People who believe more inside or psychic abilities or telepathy or remote viewing do better in these kinds of experiments than people who don't.
	So, you know, that makes sense, but it's really nice to see it empirically established, not only in laboratory studies, but now These online experiments.
	I have a program which I've had for some time called Shape Changer.
	Are you aware of that?
	Yeah, a little bit.
	Have you ever put it on your computer and played a bit with it?
	No, I haven't, but we were just talking about it yesterday.
	It's something that we're building a lab at the Institute of Noetic Sciences that we'll have done in about three months.
	And we also will be debuting a whole series of new experiments that will be online probably about September 1st.
	It's called the field of dreams and it's a beautiful set of experiments that are fairly
	contemplative.
	It gives you an opportunity to relax and engage in some beautiful imagery and some beautiful
	sounds and at the same time to see if you can use your consciousness to engage the physical
	world in ways that we can measure and it actually helps us in collecting data.
	Let's say one goes to your website and scores incredibly well on the tests.
	How should such a person proceed?
	Well, if that happened, we would proceed with that person.
	Oh, so in other words, you monitor the results.
	Sure, sure.
	And we have a Hall of Fame where the people who do best...
	Yeah, I mean it's an attempt to really try and engage people in a way that's current and that's exciting and interesting and also that has the potential to learn because we're interested in the possibility of training these capacities.
	So in other words, it's a way of finding that diamond in the rough out there.
	Yeah, exactly.
	And we've found a number of people that stand out.
	And so now with our lab at the IONS campus, we have this beautiful 200-acre campus in Northern California that is also an educational retreat center.
	And so we're interested in really looking at what are those capacities in our culture that we think are important to develop but which are not being developed by the educational system, for example.
	And how can we begin to cultivate them?
	So things like intuition, extended perception, these are very important things that may help
	us to expand who we are.
	And so we're interested not only in studying these, but learning from what we gain in our
	research in ways that we can develop some training for.
	Doctor, would it be your view that with regard to human ability in this area, it is increasing
	presently, simply being explored more presently, or perhaps even decreasing?
	In other words, is it a developing thing in human beings, or a thing slowly being forgotten?
	You know, we could argue it either way.
	I mean, the science fiction for the last 20 years, really, has been about our evolving capacities towards something.
	As we rely more and more on technology, we have more opportunity for us to expand our psyche.
	I actually think we could make the opposite argument, that in the past we've had to rely on these abilities.
	Today we have mass communication.
	We don't really need it.
	On the other hand, our consciousness is changing, our brains are changing, and if we cultivate these abilities, just like if we would learn to cultivate love instead of hate and You know, wisdom instead of simply just knowledge, you know, we might become better people.
	If you feel that way, then you're going to hate my next question.
	If I can be in a room opposite of yours and my heartbeat can be monitored, and you can change or speed up, let's say, my heartbeat, then who's to say that if you wanted to do it Yeah, I think that's an important question.
	I think that anything that can be used for good can be used for evil.
	heartbeat to the point that it became dangerous and even eventually fatal for me?
	Yeah, I think that's an important question.
	I think that anything that can be used for good can be used for evil.
	Really?
	Now you see, a lot of remote viewers that I talk to and people in this field say no
	You really can't use it in that way.
	I've maintained otherwise, and I think that they just have not tried.
	Many or most of them, I'm sure, are good people, but it does seem to me that whatever has a plus has a negative.
	I think so.
	Well, we're in agreement on that, and our solution to that problem has been that We are looking at ways in which you can maybe begin to shield yourself from these kinds of influences.
	Do you believe that to be possible?
	Well, the data suggests that it is possible.
	More data needs to be collected.
	It's an important question about blocking.
	Can you block these kinds of effects?
	It's a very important question.
	You know, we are limited because we have a small field and limited resources dedicated to it, but the data that we've collected so far suggests that if people are able to imagine, for example, a protective shield
	around themselves.
	That in formal experiments, you instruct the subject to resist the influence and then other
	people are instructed to be open to the influence.
	The open group do better than the blocking group.
	Fascinating.
	Yeah, so this suggests that we have some control over, it's not like we're just victims out
	there.
	But I think, again, if you look at the cross-cultural literature, we can't deny things like sorcery
	any more than, and often times in these cultures, the sorcerer and the healer are the same people.
	Doctor, if you were the target of a remote viewer, if you personally were the target of a remote viewer, and you had not been told of it, would you be aware of it?
	Probably not.
	Probably not.
	If you were the target of a remote influencer, and you suddenly felt a flutter in your chest as your heart beat speeded up, Do you think you'd be aware that that was going on?
	Our experiments suggest that conscious guessing doesn't work in these experiments.
	For example, I did a couple of experiments when I was at Stanford, and also I was working at the Cognitive Sciences Laboratory at Science Applications International Corporation, which was The successor to the SRI program.
	Doctor, hold that story until after the top of the hour break, so you can take a break right now, alright?
	Alright, good, thank you.
	Thank you.
	Great guest, great subject.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 2nd, 2001.
	There's a man with a gun over there Telling me I've got to beware I think it's time we stopped.
	Children, what's that sound?
	Everybody look what's going down.
	Boy, his nostalgia tear.
	Never coming near what you wanted to say.
	Only to realize it never really was She had a place in his life
	He never meant how dangerous As she rises to her apology
	Anybody else would surely know He's watching her go
	Oh, who could it be?
	Can't you see?
	The wise man has a power To reason away
	What she left to be Is always better than nothing
	Than nothing at all Keeps on living somewhere back in her momma's gold
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 2nd, 2001.
	Good morning, everybody.
	Here's the deal now.
	A lot of people are wanting to do it, so you're certainly welcome.
	Join us, if you will, and test your psychic ability.
	Now, how do you do that?
	You go to my website, artbell.com.
	Go to tonight's guest info.
	You will see there Dr. Marilyn Schlitz, and you'll see a link to her website.
	When you go to her website, you'll see one of the immediate possibilities.
	Test your PSI ability.
	Now, the website's slowing down a little bit, because a lot of people are headed up there, because it's a lot of fun.
	I mean, don't you really want to know how you test out?
	They want to know, so have at it.
	Test your PSI ability.
	Jump on my website, artbell.com.
	Find the link to the Institute of Noetic Sciences.
	It'll be right there.
	Hop across, and let's see how you do.
	I'm Art Bell, and this, of course, is Coast to Coast AM, roaring through the nighttime.
	Once again, Dr. Marilyn Schlitz.
	Welcome back, Doctor.
	Where were we?
	Well, one thing I did want to ask you about is your Shapeshifter program.
	Yes.
	And to learn a little bit more about how that relates to all of this, and how we might use it to expand our vision.
	Oh, all right.
	It's a very, very good test.
	It's a random number generator, is what it is.
	And when you bring up the program, I've got it right here, so I'm bringing it up as we speak.
	When you bring up the program, it has several 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 pictures.
	And one is of the Earth, as taken probably from on the way back from the Moon.
	One is of, you know, a nice lake, a serene lake, and on and on.
	Just very picturesque type stuff.
	And one is random noise.
	And so, as an example, you can put the Earth Uh, in one square, and then you can choose the random noise, uh, for another square.
	And then, uh, you just hit run.
	And your job is to sit there, um, let me type in my name, is to sit there and make the random noise, your choice, either, uh, disappear Or appear.
	In other words, it'll start going back and forth.
	The random noise will start covering up the Earth, then the Earth will appear.
	And your job is to either go to completely random noise, force it with your mind, or clear up the picture of the Earth.
	And it's all timed.
	You have so long to do it.
	Now, here's what I've done.
	I thought it was kind of scary when I first got the program.
	Both my wife and I I've extensively experimented with this over and over and over again and here's what I did to test it.
	I would set up the program to run and I would walk out of the room and just let it run to its conclusion.
	It would come back with a typically 17, 18, 20, 22, 26 at the most percentile.
	A very, very low percentile.
	Then the next time I would sit here and actively try and force The Earth to appear and the random noise to disappear.
	My scores were in the high 80s and high 90s.
	Every single time.
	All right, we got our new subject for the next round of experiments.
	Okay, everybody has heard you commit now to your... Well, no, they heard the results of my experiment.
	They didn't hear me commit.
	It's just a natural progression.
	You now want to develop these capacities, right?
	So get that program by all means and give it a try.
	Somebody was just in my office yesterday telling me about it, and so it's interesting you brought it up again.
	It's relevant to what I was I was starting to tell you before about these experiments that we did with conscious and unconscious intention.
	Like, what is intention and how is intention directed?
	And what's the relationship between intention and surrender?
	I think those are the kind of questions that I'm interested in, in some experiments that we're doing.
	But this is remote influencing.
	Yeah.
	That's what this is.
	I mean, there's no other way to put it.
	It's a random number generator cranking away inside that Pentium, right?
	So if you can influence that.
	Yeah, exactly.
	So what we're trying to do in these experiments is look at physiology as the random variable instead of a random generator operating in a machine.
	We've invited people to come into the laboratory and like electrodermal activity, the sweat in one's skin, for example, is an indicator of autonomic nervous system activity.
	Sure.
	They use it in lie detectors, right?
	Exactly.
	The same thing for lie detector tests.
	A measure of autonomic activity and so we set up these experiments to look at staring.
	The idea that you know people have this experience of driving in their car and they feel somebody might be looking at them and they look over and sure enough the person is staring at them.
	So the question was is that just due to heightened peripheral vision?
	You know people are just seeing out of the corners of their eyes?
	Or is there some subtle exchange of information that goes on between two people that's non-sensory?
	So the only way to measure that was to take it into the lab.
	So we set up this experiment where, you know, you'd come in and we'd monitor your autonomic nervous system activity.
	And I would have a healer, say, in another room, staring at your image via closed-circuit television.
	Okay?
	And so when he's staring at you, the idea is to get your attention.
	And in the control conditions, the idea is to do nothing and for you to be at your normal physiological level.
	In order to make sure that we didn't have some kind of artifact, we made sure that we had equal numbers of staring, non-staring periods at the beginning of the experiment as at the end of the experiment.
	And we used a random schedule all the way through and took many precautions.
	And at the end of the day, actually the end of many days, We found significant differences in the average amount of autonomic nervous system activity when the person is being stared at by a closed circuit television as compared to the control patients.
	Now if you ask the person, this was my point, if you ask the person to guess when they're being stared at, they didn't do well.
	They weren't able to consciously discern when they were being scared at, but their unconscious nervous system told them right away.
	It's interesting.
	There's just another follow-up to that set of experiments, and that is that I had a colleague who is a hard-caring member of the skeptical community, and he's also a professional magician as well as a Ph.D.
	experimental psychologist.
	His name is Richard Wiseman, and he works in England.
	And he had done these same experiments, a little different, but basically the same.
	And he found no significant differences.
	In other words, he was finding that there was no evidence for some kind of psi effect.
	So he and I decided to do an experiment together.
	And first we did a little pilot thing and we found wildly different results in my experiments compared to his.
	Then we did a formal experiment.
	We set it up in his laboratory under his protocol.
	With his subject population, everything was identical.
	Same randomization.
	Everything was identical except for I worked with half the people and he worked with half the people.
	And in the experiment, what we both ended up finding is that we had replicated our original results.
	So if there was some systematic error... You both replicated the original?
	In other words, I got a significant effect and he didn't.
	Then it was you.
	Well, or it's something else.
	How about it being you?
	Well, it could have something to do with me.
	But my guess is that it's not just about me, or else, you know, a lot of the other people you've been talking to over the years wouldn't also have the same story to tell, you know what I mean?
	But you have to be at least one possibility.
	I think that there are several things, but let me just finish my story, which is to say that we then took that same experiment And we thought, well, this is fairly provocative, because it says something about objectivity.
	You know, you assume an experimenter is somehow separate from their study.
	Yes.
	But if the experimenter's intention shapes the result, then that is a fundamental assumption of science, you know, and of our whole way of viewing reality, because we assume there is a world out there separate from ourselves.
	So it was a pretty important observation, and so we thought we'd better try to replicate this.
	So this time he came to my lab at the Institute of Noetic Sciences, and we did the same experiment.
	Everything was identical again.
	And once again, we both replicated our original finding, which is now then four experiments I've done, all of which found significant differences in the two conditions, showing an increase in autonomic nervous system activity when a person is being stared at via closed-circuit television as compared to control conditions.
	And him not getting any results.
	Actually, if you summarize all the data, his data are starting to look significant.
	And he's actually coming to visit me.
	And your data is significant.
	My data is very significant.
	And so, then, what are the possibilities?
	Well, the possibilities have something to do... My favorite hypothesis has to do with sociability.
	It has to do with the fact that in my experiments, I was able to communicate to the subjects that it would be okay To be open enough to have this kind of thing happen, whereas in his case, because his belief system doesn't allow him the intention, he therefore can't communicate to people that this would be an okay thing to have happen.
	So I think that an experiment to do next would really be to look at whether it is him or me, or is it the kind of orientation we give to our subjects?
	So there was a large difference in the way you oriented your pest subjects.
	There were.
	That was the only thing we changed that was different.
	And I was able to just be extremely personable.
	And Richard is actually personable.
	So then we may be just talking about some conscious suggestion.
	No.
	No.
	No, that can't explain it.
	Because remember I said that the experiment is designed to be randomized and double-blind and... Oh yes!
	So... Yes, I know, but in the way you instruct your subjects versus the way he does, could have something to do with a subconscious suggestion, couldn't it?
	Definitely that part, but it doesn't explain the psi results.
	Because the psi results, under the null hypothesis, it shouldn't happen at all.
	There should be an equal amount of physiological activity in the steering period as in the
	control period.
	You would expect that on the basis.
	If there is no sigh at all, it all should be about even.
	But what we are consistently getting is a difference and that shouldn't happen.
	So now we have to figure out what are the predisposing factors that could lead people
	to be more sensitive.
	You know what I mean?
	But I can only imagine that it's one of two things.
	Either it's you, as part of the experiment, you were an active part, as was he, right?
	Yes, definitely.
	To the person that it would be okay to have this experience.
	Yes, or both.
	I wonder if, of course there could be no studies, but if people who are under surveillance, for example, and have hidden microphones or cameras around them, are almost in a constant state of heightened concern, sweating a lot, Parent feelings of paranoia of, you know, someone's watching.
	Elmar Gruber, an Austrian parapsychologist, did this fun experiment where he actually videotaped people on a street corner and found that there was more activity when they were being stared at as compared to when they weren't.
	So that supports what you just said.
	Well, you know, these experiments have come so far with some of them being so conclusive Then I sort of wonder why CBS News, NBC News, you know the big major news outlets haven't come in because it would be such a good story to begin to tell the world that there's more to our mind than meets the eye.
	Well, on August 10th I'm going to be on Good Morning America and on 2020.
	Really?
	in the same day and it's a little experiment we did with Deepak Chopra and it was a remote
	staring experiment the kind I just described to you.
	And it will show footage of a one trial experiment we did between Deepak as the sender and Michael
	Gillian the science editor for ABC as the receiver.
	Oh really?
	And we got significant results.
	We got an independently significant trial which is unusual.
	So it was fun.
	So stay tuned, ABC is interested.
	Okay, well that's great.
	You should receive, I guess.
	How do you think it will affect the psyche of the average American if they really begin to understand that there really is something to all of this?
	I mean, it would have an effect, a social effect, wouldn't it?
	Yeah, that's a really good question.
	I'm sure you have thoughts about that too.
	I think that It has both good and bad potentials, but if I think about what the implications of it are, this issue of objectivity I think is central.
	We assume separation.
	We assume that we are somehow not part of, but if our consciousness is really part of the physical world, then this suggests that we aren't isolated beings, but that we're all part of a big web of life.
	And to participate in that more consciously seems to me to be a way in which to get around a lot of the environmental problems.
	I would say every social problem that we have is due to the fact that we are disconnected.
	All right.
	Try this one out.
	This is pretty deep waters for you.
	Is there any indication that we're all part of a great web of life and more?
	In other words, there are many, as you well know, who believe that our consciousness does not cease on physical death.
	Is there any indication that there's more information available than simply from the living?
	Well, I think that there are some really interesting studies that have been done.
	You know, I'll speak as a scientist and not as a person.
	I also have my own belief system that guides me, but I would say just looking at the data and people's attempts to look at that question, cross-culturally every culture believes in some vision of the afterlife.
	Every culture has it.
	Yes.
	And if you look at studies like those of Dr. Ian Stevenson at the University of Virginia
	doing work on reincarnation, he is documenting things like biological markers of reincarnation,
	the notion that if a person was killed in a life through some kind of physical trauma
	like they had a gunshot, that if you then look at the child, you find cases where the
	memory and the personality associated with the previous life are also correlated with
	a birthmark on the child in the same location as the trauma.
	And I mean there's some amazing stories.
	Stevenson's work is really very, very important, I think, in terms of being systematic and being thorough.
	Do you think you're able to separate your own personal belief system, we haven't discussed that yet, whatever it is, from the work you're doing?
	Well, no.
	I think it's all engaged.
	I mean, obviously, you know, if I was a different person, I'd be asking a different set of questions about life, and I happen to be particularly open to these questions because I think that they're really important.
	They're important because they say something about what is our potential.
	Yes, but if you begin to discover evidence that would appear to be contrary to whatever your belief system is, I'm intentionally not asking about that right now, could you objectively assimilate and correlate that information and deal with it objectively?
	Well, one would hope so.
	I mean, one tries always to be... It is not my experience, however, in terms of my scientific career, My experience is that these things are real, that there's something going on.
	Not everything is real, and not always is it real when people report these experiences.
	But I think there are very compelling bodies of data in the parapsychology literature to say that we have capacities that don't fit within the dominant view of what's possible, and that these capacities reveal something really interesting, not only about ourselves Have you ever encountered what you consider to be a non-human entity?
	and then that sense of transcendence that you alluded to before.
	I mean it is about that oneness, that web of life, that spiritual core maybe.
	Have you encountered ever in all your experimentation, remote viewing and otherwise, have you ever
	encountered what you consider to be a non-human entity?
	No, not in any formal experiments.
	Not in any formal experiments?
	No.
	Yeah, but that leaves a bit of a door open.
	Informally?
	One time I was...
	Walking through a cemetery.
	Since it's late at night and we're in the middle of the night, we could tell ghost stories.
	Oh, yes, we can tell ghost stories.
	We do that all the time here.
	Hold that story.
	That's a great hook, walking through a cemetery.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Arc Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 2nd, 2001.
	This is a video of the song I played on the radio in the early days of the show.
	I never stopped Here for the love that comes
	Romeo and Juliet are together Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in
	Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired August 2, 2001.
	Good morning, everybody, from the high desert.
	Dr. Marilyn Schlitz is my guest.
	She has the Institute of Noetic Sciences talking about things that you probably didn't know could be done, but are being done now every day.
	And it sounds like pretty soon the rest of America is going to find out all about it.
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	By the way, speaking of graveyards, Monday, Brendan Cook and company are going to be here, and they take tape recorders into graveyards, tape recorders with brand new tapes that have never been recorded on before, and most times they come out with something on the tape, something on the blank tape, a voice not theirs, and perhaps, well, Back to Dr. Marilyn Schlitz, and that'll be Monday, Doctor.
	They do amazing, amazing work.
	You were once walking through a graveyard yourself, you said.
	I was hoping we forgot that story.
	No.
	Well, one night I was with a couple friends, and we were at a conference that was located at a university that was right on a cemetery ground.
	We went walking through the cemetery just because it's the place that one walked, and under the full moon, We decided to pay homage to Diana, the goddess of the moon, every time we came to a crosswalk.
	We were just goofing.
	Suddenly, one of the members of our party said, Wow, look.
	It was this bright light.
	He went chasing after it.
	He called us over and he had seen this light.
	We saw the light, too.
	We saw a bright light.
	Let him to the statue that was right in an open crosswalk under the full moon of Diana in the cemetery.
	It was like this really remarkable moment.
	Oh my, my.
	But who knows what that is?
	I have no idea what that is.
	I think that those are amazing stories and what I think the challenge is to figure out how one really can begin to explore those kind of anomalies in a way that... Would it be your view that consciousness survives physical death?
	I think there's some really interesting data to support that idea.
	Like I said, Ian Stevenson's work, Dr. Gary Schwartz at the University of Arizona is doing some very intriguing work on mediumship.
	I certainly don't discard it.
	I think it's a hard area to do research on and so it requires a lot of creativity and a lot of patience.
	Then if we assume for a second for the sake of the conversation that might be true, then why would that not necessarily be part of this non-local consciousness pool?
	It would be.
	It definitely would be.
	And it's all part of the notion that perhaps consciousness is not just in the brain, but is something that has transcendent qualities, transpersonal qualities.
	It suggests all of those things.
	If you can use your mind to somehow go to a geographical location a thousand miles away and accurately describe its characteristics, that's pretty interesting.
	What do you think is the best current definition or the one you would offer up for consciousness itself?
	I mean, what is consciousness, really?
	I think that consciousness can, in my definition, be seen as a process.
	I think it's getting used in many different ways.
	Certainly I'm part of this consciousness program at the University of Arizona at Tucson.
	We use it in a number of ways.
	Everything from consciousness is the brain, so the neurosciences and the whole notion
	that we can program consciousness, artificial intelligence.
	I think that consciousness can, in my definition, be seen as a process.
	It's a process of awareness.
	It's about our interiority, about that sense of who we are, our sense of identity.
	That's what I think of when I think of consciousness.
	Do you think consciousness as we understand it may be achieved in a machine eventually?
	Not exactly, no.
	Although I just saw this movie AI.
	Was it good?
	I haven't seen it yet.
	Not particularly.
	Sorry to whoever made that movie.
	Well, isn't consciousness to some degree a matter of speed of processing and the amount of storage?
	It's very clear that our awareness is tied in with our brain.
	And if you took a sledgehammer and put it over somebody's head, it would be very clear.
	That's very clear.
	But the question is, is that all?
	Or are there capacities of consciousness that transcend the brain?
	Is the brain like your radio and consciousness is more like the waves?
	And so therefore we have a brain that's tuned to perceive certain frequencies, but those frequencies would exist whether we had the radio on or not.
	That's true, yes, of course.
	So that's kind of my vision of it.
	Yeah, they're all around us all the time.
	Sure.
	And I actually love the concept of consciousness as nature, consciousness as the whole.
	It's that great organizing intelligence that we're all part of.
	And so when we are able to do these kinds of things like remote viewing, somehow we're able to tap into an interconnectedness that we don't see ordinarily.
	You know what I mean?
	Yes.
	I'm relatively sure that the capabilities that we're talking about tonight, of the mind, or even of mass minds, are absolutely real.
	I've conducted some pretty significant experiments of my own here on the radio, utilizing millions of people.
	We've created rain where there should not and was not rain.
	We've done all kinds of things, and we did it to the point that it began to scare me.
	Why?
	We actually got to the point where there was a deadly hurricane headed toward the Carolina coast, and people wanted me to conduct an experiment with that.
	We had brought rain to Texas and the Northwest and up into all sorts of various areas where there simply was no rain forecast.
	Clouds appeared to rain.
	It was amazing!
	But then they wanted me to turn a hurricane.
	And I thought, you know, I really don't know what the hell I'm doing.
	And it may just be that I would turn a hurricane or slow a hurricane and it would build to catastrophic proportions and then come ashore.
	And I don't know what I'm doing, so I'm going to stop.
	And I've stopped.
	That sounds like right action.
	You know, I'm kind of afraid to proceed until I really, until I know what I'm doing.
	But I saw it work, Marilyn.
	I saw it work to the point that it really began to send chills down my spine.
	Would it be your view also that many minds concentrating on one thing, we talked about healing earlier, but affecting the weather or anything else of that sort, would be a more powerful force than one mind trying the same thing?
	Again, I'll put my science hat on and say that it's an empirical question.
	We have a study that we're hoping to do that involves wound healing.
	And the question is, is there a dose response associated with distant healing?
	So in other words, if you have one healing intervention, as compared to 14, will there be a difference in the outcome?
	And that's actually a question we're hoping to address as soon as the funding comes in.
	I guess you all depend on that funding, don't you?
	Funding is important, and this is the kind of area that doesn't easily get government money.
	You know it's the kind of area that sort of bold individuals with a willingness to risk are the ones who have really fueled the field and that's true for probably 130 years.
	And there's probably not enough of those out there are there?
	Well my guess is there's a lot of them out there if they just were interested and were willing to take on the role of a conduit for resources.
	I mean money is the It's a flowing currency and I think that it's something that a lot of people now are recognizing that philanthropy is an important way of giving back to the community.
	I think that that's all part of it.
	Again, it's the connectedness piece and seeing ourselves as part of and money as part of.
	All these things are important.
	We're right now hoping to get a grant through the National Institutes of Health.
	We have been completely reliant on philanthropic support and some foundation money, but right
	now we're trying to crack into the National Institutes of Health to see if we can't get
	one of their Frontier Medicine Awards.
	And we're very close, so keep your fingers crossed, and if all of those millions of people
	out there would hold a positive intention, write to their senators if we don't get it.
	Now, let me ask you this.
	If you had all the money you needed, an endless supply of money to conduct any experiment, any mass experiment you wanted, what would you do?
	I would do a number of experiments.
	I wouldn't just do one thing.
	I'm interested myself in the program.
	We have a lab for consciousness research at the Institute of Noetic Sciences.
	We are really interested in looking at basic questions about causality.
	What is the nature of reality?
	How are space and time really constructed?
	So if you can do PK on your shapeshifter program, what does that say about, again, this relationship of consciousness to the physical world?
	I would be really interested in looking at questions related to subtle energies.
	You know, people who practice things like Reiki healing or Qigong or Tai Chi or
	There's a whole therapeutic touch. There's a whole variety of modalities
	that embrace some concept of subtle energy or subtle fields and
	I think that's a very rich area for future exploration if
	doctors millions of people were to begin concentrating on closing the ozone hole on
	doing something positive for the environment.
	That's just one thing I happen to think of right now.
	Would you think there would be a possibility they could actually have success?
	I would think there's a possibility, and I think that if we can begin to think collectively about creative, positive solutions to some of our problems, that can't hurt.
	At the very least, that can't hurt.
	Well, certainly it can't hurt, but the big question is, can it help?
	Well, it's a test.
	Let's try it.
	Let's all try it.
	That would be a great one to aim for.
	What I always worry about is, oh my God, the ozone hole has closed, and now there's environmental problems because we were supposed to have a hole.
	You know, I just worry about it.
	I think it will be done, you know?
	You have to really visualize for the best outcome, I think, is really a big part of it.
	I wanted to tell you, we were talking about who are people that are most responsive to these kinds of attacks and so on.
	I did a project at the Juilliard School in New York with the students there.
	They are people who are trained in music, dance and drama.
	We did a gun felt study where we were looking at whether people could go into an altered state.
	It's a sensory deprivation procedure.
	A dream state induction procedure.
	So in other words, you put somebody in a room and you put these kind of halved ping pong balls over their eyes and you shine red light over them and you play white noise in their ears and what you've done is you've reduced their normal sensory input.
	Drastically.
	So that they're still awake and their mind says they should be seeing things but they're not.
	So they begin to get imagery.
	So it's an imagery induction and sensory deprivation procedure and it seems to be very conducive to having ESP type experiences because it allows people to look internal in an internal way.
	It probably forces them to.
	Exactly and if they stay open and there's just a gentle wish rather than a forced intention that what's happening in these experiments in the Juliet study for example We had a person in another room who was watching a video clip and so for example one day I was the sender and I was watching a video clip from the movie Altered States and it was just a clip in it was the descent scene into hell.
	Oh yes.
	And the whole scene is red and there's this corona sun and there's this huge lizard that opens and closes its mouth.
	That's right.
	I'm listening through headphones to a person in another room who is describing the imagery
	going through their head.
	It happened to be one of the drama students.
	He said, red, red, red, I see red.
	Then he said he saw a sun and he saw smoke.
	Then just at the moment when I was watching the video clip of the lizard, this guy said,
	I see a lizard opening and closing its mouth.
	Talk about goose bumps up the back of the neck.
	We saw that happen to a statistically significant extent.
	You would expect a quarter of the time things to be right.
	Fifty percent of the time we got direct hits in that experiment.
	I would not expect a quarter of the time for someone to hit that on the nail.
	No, not that well.
	That was pretty... Qualitatively, that was really exciting.
	Oh, yes.
	We had another one in that experiment where the film clip was from The Wiz.
	You know, the parody of The Wizard of Oz.
	Yes.
	It has Diana Ross as Dorothy.
	They're coming across the bridge and the whole scene again is tinted yellow this time.
	And there's a hot air balloon panning across and you see the wizard.
	Well, you've got the wizard in the background because that's Oz.
	And you've got the lion, the scarecrow, the tin man and the dog with Dorothy.
	And this girl, she was also a drama student.
	She said she saw a hot air balloon right at the time when the hot air balloon was being watched from the other room.
	And she saw a black female nightclub performer, a dog, a lion, a wizard, and yellow.
	And then she saw, it looked like a cityscape of New York.
	It was just phenomenal.
	And so when you're able to get that kind of, what I enjoy really is trying to capture these things in a laboratory setting where we can really say with certainty that we had some genuine anomaly happen.
	And then what are the conditions that can facilitate these kinds of abilities for happening?
	So is there something about the creative mind or the dramatic mind?
	Alright, well how about this one?
	If you can do that with a single individual, in essence transmit to them an image, then what about the concept of introducing an idea or a concept Yeah, I think so.
	collective consciousness.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	In other words, actually sort of putting it into the great collection of ideas that will
	occur not to just one person, but to many or millions of people.
	Yeah.
	What about that idea?
	Yeah, I think so.
	I think that I do some research down in the Amazon with a group of the Achuar Indians,
	and they believe that people dream for the collective.
	They don't dream for the individual, and that it is through the sharing of the dreams every
	morning that different elements are brought together in order to create a whole vision
	of what's possible.
	I think if we as a culture could begin to dream collectively and to really begin to create thought forms, I mean, I don't mean to sound New Agey, because I am not a New Agey person.
	I do believe, however, that there is something, even just at the cultural, sociological level, of means or ideas that are powerful in society.
	If we could begin to create more positive means, I think that could really help to shift worldview, and then if you add on to that the possibility that a Collective consciousness may actually be causal in ways that you mentioned about the weather or about the ozone layer or anything else.
	I don't know the answer whether we can actually do those big macro-level things, but I am absolutely sure that we can do more by taking that kind of position of positive imaging for the future than we can if we don't.
	Maybe we can do it.
	We just haven't tried yet.
	Yeah, who's to say we can't, right?
	Nobody at all.
	I'm leaning toward probably we can.
	I just don't know about the advisability of it.
	We need more people like you doing, you know, experiments at the micro level before we begin enlisting millions of people to try and do something that we don't know much about.
	I think that's true.
	I think it's still at the stage of really trying to understand what's happening and also, you know, maybe now to begin to translate some of this into some training kind of ideas that again can be tested empirically so that we're
	not just going off on assumptions, but we're really trying to ground what we're doing in a way
	that allows us to proceed with caution but openness.
	I always ask my guests at this particular juncture if they'd be willing to stick around and perhaps take some calls from the audience.
	Sure, I'd love to.
	You would?
	Yeah.
	Okay, then consider that done.
	Stay right there, Doctor.
	Another break coming up.
	We will do exactly that when we come back.
	We'll open the lines and let you ask Dr. Schlitz anything you would like.
	I'm Art Bell, and from the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM roaring through the night like a freight train.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 2nd 2001
	A musical performance by the band, the Coast to Coast AM.
	The band is a musical collaboration of the band's original song, The Coast to Coast.
	The Coast to Coast AM performance by the Coast to Coast AM band.
	The Coast to Coast AM performance by the Coast to Coast AM band.
	Just about to open the phone lines for Dr. Marilyn Schlitz.
	Anything you want to ask her that seems relevant is absolutely okay.
	So, phone lines are now officially open.
	Just a moment.
	We'll rock.
	about to open the phone lines for Dr. Marilyn Schlitz.
	Anything you want to ask her that seems relevant is absolutely okay. So phone lines are now
	officially open. Just a moment to little rock, stay right where you are. Once again, Dr.
	Marilyn Schlitz, who is a director of research at the Institute of Noetic Sciences.
	Doctor, welcome back.
	Thank you.
	And let's delve into the phone lines and see, after hearing all of this, what people have to ask you.
	All right, first time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Schlitz.
	Hello.
	Yes, hi.
	Hi.
	Where are you, sir?
	I'm just outside Palm Springs, California.
	Okay, close by.
	Go ahead.
	Yeah, just listening to your conversations and such, and it's very enlightening, obviously.
	You're intelligent.
	Someone that's dealt into this.
	As Art was saying, definitely remote viewing surprised me a lot as well when I looked into it, if you will.
	But my question, basically, is what are your thoughts on alien abductions?
	I know myself.
	I'm 37 years old.
	Growing up, of course, the first case, the Barney and Betty Hill event back in the 60s.
	At the time, I actually thought that that had Well, I'll tell you what.
	Let's approach it from this angle.
	Let's go ahead and ask that question.
	field from her uh...
	her field will certainly although it builds in the areas that
	are certainly not generally accepted as uh...
	well i'll tell you what let's approach it from the sangha let's go ahead and
	ask uh... ask that question doctor uh...
	alien abductions it might not seem as though it's your field but on the
	other hand if uh... if if a lot of this is occurring within the mind
	of the uh...
	abductee I suppose it might get close to your field in a way.
	I think there are some amazing things that can happen in consciousness.
	You're going to have to get in close to the phone.
	I think that it's true that there are some amazing things that happen in consciousness.
	And one area that the Institute of Neurotic Sciences has been interested in is This is an indirect answer to that question, and that is that there is this healing response that the body is capable of, and in order to prove that, they looked at different indicators.
	So you can take something like multiple personality, for example, and you can see that people in different personality states can actually have different physical symptoms, like an allergic reaction in one personality, but not in the other personality, even when it's the same body.
	What about marks?
	What about the famous scoop mark that some abductees have reported, or bruises, or anything else?
	Yeah, you know, you were right though.
	It's really not my field.
	I don't know enough.
	I know that, but is the body capable?
	Yes, I think that there are examples in terms of things like stigmata.
	There's a lot of indication that stigmata is a real phenomenon.
	And that would indicate, again, this way in which the mind-body-emotion matrix is very powerful.
	So that if the mind, whether or not it really physically occurred, thought it had been abducted and there had been a bruise on the leg or something, it's entirely possible the person could wake up with a bruise on their leg.
	I would not dismiss that as a possibility.
	I see things, for example, if you look at the hypnosis literature.
	It is really remarkable what the mind is capable of, the levels to which it can compartmentalize, in which there is this plasticity, you know, the ability to use emotion or image in a way that can really begin to shapeshift the body.
	Shapeshift.
	Yeah.
	Alright.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Schlitz.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	Yes, sir.
	I'm from KSFO country.
	San Francisco.
	San Francisco.
	This is Pat.
	Yes.
	Question, and after that, a comment that the doctor might find fascinating to look at.
	Question is, since animals seem to be able to operate on ESP levels, What, pray tell, is the lymphic or lower brain?
	What is it, or how does that relate to thought?
	What is it?
	Oh yeah, and is there any particular frequency responses within it that might be noticeable during these periods of time?
	You know, there are no data yet to answer your question.
	Rats?
	Yeah, well rats, that would be the place to start probably.
	It's a pretty amazing thing.
	But I understand what you're saying.
	I think that when you mention animals, I think about Rupert Sheldrake's work looking at whether
	pets can detect when their parents are coming or their owners are coming home.
	Rupert has this fascinating new project that again is pretty anecdotal at this stage, but
	of a psychic parrot.
	It's a pretty amazing thing.
	But I understand what you're saying.
	We're talking about the old part of the brain.
	There are some experiments now underway in this area of consciousness studies and sort
	of the frontiers of consciousness that are looking at brain physiology and how it correlates
	with psi experiences.
	Before, we were talking about the metaphor of the brain as kind of the radio and then this kind of information transfer happens like the radio wave, if it's like that.
	It's probably not quite like that.
	That metaphor is faulty.
	But if it is like that then we have the capacity to really do remarkable things.
	Okay, now the consideration.
	Have you ever considered the fact that when people communicate and their minds are wandering
	off in other directions, communication is highly imperfect.
	However, when they are thinking about what they are saying, communication becomes very
	clear.
	And sometimes like when your wife is talking to you and you are reading something and you
	are sort of going hmm.
	That's relatively close.
	Or you can intentionally do it by speaking to somebody and letting your mind drift off in another direction and proceeding to think about something totally different.
	Absolutely correct.
	There is no communication.
	Yeah, absolutely correct, Doctor.
	And so what's the point of that then?
	It's perhaps possible that along the side factor The thinking about what you are saying is necessary for communication within our species.
	Yeah, I don't think that has anything to do with psi ability, though.
	That just has to do with your attention.
	Attention and intention are really important.
	I agree with that.
	Something to do with it.
	It may be something that we all do unconsciously, which relates to psi, but which we overlook because it's so common.
	Yeah, and I think that whole notion of sort of the daydreaming state, too.
	What is that?
	And reverie and creativity?
	Is there psi inherent in those kind of processes that we don't pay attention to?
	Well, we know that when the body sleeps, it heals itself.
	I wonder if there is some similar effect when you are, in effect, daydreaming.
	Is that possible?
	Well, I think there's a lot of data, again, if you just look at what the brain-body connection is.
	Things like imagery, where people seem to be able to use imagery in ways that really change the immune system, change the endocrine system, and so that really shows that our beliefs are powerful, and so it suggests that, you know, And then the data that we talk about from parapsychology suggests that beliefs are powerful.
	Touching on a lot of what we touched on last night, interestingly, is it not true that if a person can either be healed or heal themselves with the power of their mind, that they can also just as easily make themselves sick?
	Right.
	Yes?
	Well, again, you know, anything that can be used for good can be used for not.
	I'm sure that certainly we can stress ourselves out And it isn't about the stress, it's about our response to the stress.
	Precisely, yes.
	You know, so there are ways in which we can choose how we're going to react to things and it's not always so simple as that.
	No, no, but are there not people who virtually choose to die?
	They in effect give up or their mate has left them or left the world and they simply choose to follow and inevitably and statistically Provably, they do.
	That's true.
	And there's this Black Monday phenomenon in heart disease.
	More heart attacks occur early morning Monday.
	You know, I've thought a lot about that.
	And I thought, if I'm going to have the big one, let it come on a Monday.
	I mean, who wants to have a heart attack on Friday night, right?
	Right.
	You know, when you hear about these stories again, this reveals the power of the mind.
	People who have a deadline to turn in a manuscript, they die the day they turn in the manuscript, or the correlation of death and fulfillment of a birthday, or how it is after those events.
	There are really some amazing ways in which we can cultivate our intention and our attention And these statistics, which are fascinating, would really correlate quite directly with your work, wouldn't they?
	Yeah, it's all very interesting.
	It just shows the link.
	Sure.
	Okay, East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Schlitz and Art Bell, top of the morning to you.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
	How are you doing, Art?
	How are you doing, Doctor?
	Good, thank you.
	Good.
	I've got two questions, actually.
	Is there a difference between psychic ability and remote viewing?
	Yes, good question.
	And the second one, and then I'll get off the phone and let y'all discuss amongst yourselves, is have you done any experiments with people who are paralyzed?
	For like, when you have somebody who's blind, their other senses like hearing and smell accelerate.
	And if somebody who's paralyzed from the neck down, Maybe you're a little bit more in tune to, I guess, the psi factor, or however you want to call it.
	Yes, both very good questions.
	Let's take them one at a time.
	Psi-ability and remote viewing, the same, not the same?
	What I would say about that is that remote viewing is a methodology.
	You have a domain of experience, which we would call psi phenomena, and psi phenomena include Telepathy, which is mind-to-mind communication.
	Clairvoyance, which is mind-to-object, like a geographical location.
	Precognition, which is knowledge of the future.
	Those three, telepathy, clairvoyance, and precognition, we call extrasensory perception.
	And then psychokinesis is the fourth category.
	Have you actually ever observed it, psychokinesis that is?
	Well, you know, in these experiments we're seeing indirect indications of it, where it looks as though the intention of the healer can influence the health outcomes of the patient.
	Right.
	That's more... I would almost put that more in a remote influencing.
	There may not be a great deal of difference.
	What's the difference?
	I'm not sure.
	Maybe the magnitude of the ability, perhaps.
	But I heard the Russians have done some pretty wild experiments with psychokinesis.
	Is there validity to that, or are those Oh, well, there's a wonderful book that was called Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain that talked about a whole lot of the stuff that was going on there.
	No, there was definitely a lot of interesting work, and I think there still is some interesting work going on.
	I believe there's video of people in Russia bending... Nina Colagonon.
	Yeah, I don't really trust a lot of that, actually, I have to say.
	That's where my skeptic side comes in.
	Yeah, I know the Russians are very enamored of this sort of thing, and so there could be some... But the question was about, you know, psychic ability and remote viewing, and what I would say is that when we want to study something like extrasensory perception, so telepathy, clairvoyance, or precognition, we tend to use different methods to do it.
	One method is remote viewing, where we use geographical locations.
	Another method is Gonsfeld, where we put somebody in this sensory deprivation kind of procedure.
	So those are two methodologies, and those are methodologies to study psychic ability.
	Well, remote viewers would generally object here, and they would say, no, wait a minute.
	Remote viewing may have a relationship to psi-ability, but it's really a specific I've lost track of some of the remote viewing work, I have to say.
	the ego of the participant and so forth and so on.
	Very carefully developed protocols.
	I've lost track of some of the remote viewing work, I have to say.
	I did my work, a series of experiments in the early 80s and then moved into doing Gonsfeld research.
	All right, well actually the last question he asked was about somebody who would be paralyzed.
	Somebody from the neck down, say, who would have to be almost entirely mental.
	In a way, sensory deprivation.
	Motor deprivation.
	It's an excellent question and I don't think it's been answered.
	I don't think it's been asked, really, in a formal experiment.
	And I would suggest that the caller and anybody else out there who's interested Do some research on these things.
	We need people.
	We need good, capable, smart people who can do good research in any population.
	But I think that question in particular is a good one because it suggests that there would be, because of the deficiency, there could be a compensation using the psychic ability.
	And I think that's a very good hypothesis and definitely worth testing.
	If there was a person out there, or if there are persons out there who are capable of real telekinesis, and I don't mean just remote influencing now another individual, I'm talking about somebody who could take a lighter, put it on the table, concentrate on that lighter until it went right across the table because of the power of their mind.
	Would that person be well advised to submit themselves to scientific testing?
	Or do you think that a person like that going public would be subject to some pretty cruel treatment from their fellow human beings?
	I don't know.
	You can look at movies.
	Look at how movies depict people with these kinds of abilities.
	Usually they're the modern version of burned at the stake.
	That's why I asked the question.
	I think that's true.
	But I don't think participating in research needs to divulge somebody's identity or turn them into a pop star.
	I think that you can do research under great levels of confidentiality.
	If people had those kinds of abilities, we would really be interested.
	That's the kind of thing that we are looking for people with.
	I'm sure you are.
	I would love to have them contact us.
	All right.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Schlitz.
	Good morning.
	Hello there.
	Oh, wait a minute.
	We didn't get it pushed.
	West of the Rockies, now you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Good morning, Art.
	Good morning, Dr. Schlitz.
	Good morning.
	My name is Steve.
	I'm calling from Northern California.
	I've tried psychokinesis myself, several hours of it in fact, and my results have been bonk.
	Now as far as psi things, they must be very subtle.
	As an example, if some moron were to take a chainsaw and cut down a tree, you could bring every holy man, every psychic, every medium in the world and they could all I agree with that.
	and pray and envision it in white light and whatever they did that tree would not stand
	back up and come back to life.
	So the gross physical things are sometimes just beyond the power of our will or our mind
	to do anything about.
	I agree with that.
	And Doctor I find you most enjoyable incidentally.
	Now Art I know that you don't want to talk about this but please just listen for a moment.
	Your back is dislocated.
	I'm sure it is.
	It's in Cincinnati somewhere.
	One of your vertebrae has slipped in some direction and it is pressing upon the nerves in your back.
	You need to get it pushed back so that it is no longer dislocated.
	It's just like a dislocated finger or a shoulder.
	Well, use your mind for me and push.
	Well, you have to find yourself a Good.
	Show him the MRI, show him the x-ray, and that's what you must do, because if you don't do it, it's just like having a dislocated finger that you don't pop back into place.
	It's going to stay that way.
	Okay, sir.
	I appreciate it.
	Thank you.
	But I am actively discouraging people from commenting on my back, if you would please.
	Thank you.
	But he's right.
	I mean, it may be that Remote healing of this sort of thing is possible.
	I don't know.
	Maybe some people out there would like to take your advice and give it a shot.
	I'm a willing subject if people want to try that, but I don't want to talk about it on the air.
	Doctor, hold on.
	We'll be right back and do another 30 minutes of calls.
	How's that?
	Great.
	Stay right there.
	Dr. Marilyn Schlitz is my guest, Director of Research at the Institute of Noetic Sciences.
	She's definitely a heavyweight in this field.
	We're probably pushing her out pretty far in a limb.
	But that's what we do with guests here, and she's being a good sport about it.
	I'm Art Bell from the High Desert.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 2nd, 2001.
	This is a trailer for the new movie, Coast to Coast.
	Thanks for watching.
	Without a home.
	But not without a star.
	Free.
	Free, only want to be free The End
	The End The End
	The End Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 2nd, 2001.
	Dr. Marilyn Schlitz, Director of Research at the Institute of Noetic Sciences, is my, and so much more, is my guest, and we're allowing you to pick up the telephone and ask questions.
	So if you have one, do that and we'll get you on the air.
	Dr. Schlitz, I'm getting messages, interesting messages from people like Lois in Temple, Texas on the computer.
	take PSI tests.
	They say things like, Arne, I went to her website and for some reason her website is telling me I'm not authorized to
	Is your website somehow psychically determining some people here are a total waste of psychic time?
	No, she should, maybe she's not clicking at the right place.
	You have to register.
	So she does have to provide some information.
	You have to register.
	That's right, because if you find a wonder person, you want to contact them.
	Yeah.
	They're not registered by name.
	You can register under any name, but we just have to have an ID number so that we can record how many people we have.
	Well, then how do you manage to track them down and strap them on a gurney and do things to them?
	They have to comply.
	I wanted to go back to the last caller's point.
	He made a good point, I think, which is that The kind of phenomena, psi phenomena, are subtle.
	They are subtle.
	I think what needs to be advocated is an integral model of consciousness.
	Consciousness is about these subtle realms.
	It's also about the physical realm.
	It's about the whole.
	When we think about health and healing, I think the full perspective or spectrum Do you know what cloud busting is?
	I do.
	That's subtle.
	are all things that we need to take into consideration as we
	look to what kind of medicine we want to create for the future.
	Do you know what cloud busting is? I do.
	That's subtle. I mean you sit in a lawn chair and you concentrate on a cloud and you punch a hole in it.
	And it appears to work.
	Is that subtle?
	That's pretty macro.
	Well, yeah, macro indeed.
	Subtle.
	But subtle, yes, in a way.
	In other words, subtle as compared to a tree jumping back on a stump.
	For sure.
	So one can imagine two things.
	One, it is so subtle that it's our imaginations doing the work for us.
	But of course your work would tend to argue with that fact.
	So yeah, as you said, he pointed out something very interesting.
	It is subtle.
	In most of the experiments, like if you're looking at mind over matter kind of experiments, if that's the right way to think about it, which it might not be, you know, but let's just think about it that way for a minute, then most of the experiments that we've done involve some systems that have randomness.
	So we're really kind of looking for busy, noisy systems so that this kind of subtle influence can take place.
	And human physiology is one of those places where it's a complex system and you can have multiple gateways in.
	I think that I wouldn't rule out the possibility that people could fell a tree with their mind, but I have seen no data to support it.
	And short of data, I would probably think that it's not the most parsimonious explanation.
	So I would definitely agree with what he was saying, and I think it's just really important to hold the whole.
	Even when, like for myself, I get enthusiastic about the furthest reaches of our potential.
	I think it's important also to just think about how important it is for us to think about the mind-body connection and the importance of relaxation and meditation.
	Doctor, is there any work going on in this field, without commenting on it specifically, that you are aware of that the public has not been made aware of?
	You mean in terms of parapsychology?
	Mm-hmm.
	I think most of the work, not all of it, but I think most of it has now been declassified.
	Oh, I didn't mean necessarily military, although that's a good separate conversation.
	I meant in private labs around the country.
	After all, if we did find that person who could knock the lighter across the room or lift something into the air, it's doubtful to me that it would be made public.
	It's such a small field, and we pretty much know each other.
	Well, if you found such a person, would you be out shouting it from the rooftops, or being honest here, how would you handle it?
	If we found a super psychic, first we would want to really make sure that that's true, and we would probably take a good deal of I think with sensitivity and respect for whatever the
	circumstances dictated, I don't think that we would go announcing that person's name on the
	rooftop.
	Precisely.
	That's why I say the doubtful they'd be on Montel Williams soon, or that anybody would hear about anything that would be rather quiet for quite a long time.
	It really depends on the person.
	If people want to promote themselves, they can.
	We don't like to endorse people as psychics.
	All we can really say is that this is how well they did in this particular experiment under these particular circumstances.
	All right, back to the phones.
	A lot of people are waiting.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Dr. Schlitz.
	Hello.
	How's it going?
	Okay, sir.
	My name is Ricardo.
	Yes.
	I'm calling from San Diego.
	Yes, sir.
	And earlier, you guys were talking about the experiments you did with the AIDS patients and how you had all these different people from all these different religions.
	And it was very beautiful to see the breakdown of all doctrines and just the positive energies being put forward and how that can really affect others.
	But to say that really creates a fear in a lot of people's minds, which Art, you kind of brought up later, couldn't someone just stop my heart?
	Sure.
	When there's no morals, when there's no concept of good and evil, when there's no breakdown of right and wrong and all there is is just this energy transfer.
	You know, there's a certain idea that it would create a licentiousness within society.
	Do you feel that to know that energy is to truly know the depth of it and that there could be no possibility of harming another person because you would know in this moment that their consciousness is eternal?
	Yes.
	There's nothing you can do to their body.
	Very good question.
	Why would anybody kill them or why would anybody hurt them if they really knew that energy to share it?
	There would be no possibility of any kind of harm being done.
	Is that naive, Doctor?
	I think it's a very beautiful question, and I think that what I would say is that our culture has emphasized the intellectual aspects of our development.
	So when we think about intelligence, we think about it in terms of our rational, intellectual ability.
	But intelligence is so many more things than that.
	And wisdom can be seen as something different from intelligence.
	So if we're going to develop any ability of any kind, wouldn't it make sense that we should learn to use those abilities wisely?
	Not only do we want to be able to develop technologies and theories and experiments, that's all really wonderful.
	In fact, it's the prowess of the intellect that got us to the moon and back.
	Now has an orbiting space station, has a human genome, we have a sheep named Dolly and a chess champion named Deep Blue.
	There is no question that the physical paradigm works.
	It just doesn't seem to be complete.
	You've got mail!
	And so how do we, you know, round it out with greater appreciation for the qualitative issues that your caller mentioned, the morals, the context for developing these kind of practices?
	Well, is there any guarantee?
	That somebody who would be deeply enough into this to be practicing remote influencing, for example, or remote healing, or something of that magnitude that they were very, very adept at, is there any guarantee they would automatically be morally pure as a result of the process they've gone through?
	Or is it entirely possible you could have, you know, a Cy Hitler Well, what we talked about before, you know, I think that there is the light and the dark inherent in all things.
	So, we can ask the same question about the Human Genome Project, and we can say that as a culture we have privileged that project and put a lot of our resources toward that, a lot of our money, billions of dollars have gone into the Genome Project.
	And so that is really a wonderful way in which we have galvanized our collective mind.
	It just seems as though it's not a complete story.
	Well, part of the future of that story might be building mindless slaves.
	I think thinking about blocking I think thinking about ways in which you can shield and retard these kinds of abilities is really important for the field to move forward.
	Sounds like you're working on that aspect pretty hard.
	Well, we're working on it.
	I mean, we could always use more people and more resources.
	As I said, it's a small field.
	Somebody, Jessica Utz, who's a statistician from the University of California at Davis, calculated that I think the amount of money that has been spent in the 130 years of parapsychology is equivalent to about, I think she said, a month of mainstream psychology.
	So, I mean, we really haven't gotten the kind of critical mass of people with the kind of resources that are necessary in order to really answer so many of the questions that are being raised.
	Well, maybe after you're on ABC, that'll change.
	Well, I think it's the Art Bell Show that's going to do it.
	Haha, you're sweet.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Schlitz.
	Good morning.
	Hi, good morning.
	Is this Art in Maryland?
	Yes.
	There's a woman out there.
	Oh, hi.
	Yes, there is.
	Hi, I was listening to you and I was interested because in my background, my mother and I, my family used to talk about ESP and we didn't consider it anything that was terribly abnormal.
	It was sort of just part of our life.
	She talked about things that had happened in her family.
	But anyway, as an experiment, my mom, even though they were poor, Our family was poor.
	Things would come to them if they needed it, almost magically.
	So I remember as a young girl, my mother would say, let's do an experiment.
	For instance, my little brother really wanted a rocking horse.
	So my mother said, let's concentrate everybody on a rocking horse.
	To make a long story short, we got a call from a distant aunt that said somebody was going to be throwing out a rocking horse and did we have any use for it.
	Sort of the thing that would happen when I was younger.
	So I grew up with it.
	Then I had my own children.
	Sometimes when they were younger, I would lie in bed with them.
	I would say, I'm thinking of something.
	I would ask them if they could see what I was thinking of.
	Often they would get it right on target.
	With my son, we were listening to music.
	I said, listen to the music.
	Then I gave him a pencil.
	And I said, draw what you're thinking.
	Just draw out whatever you think of when you hear this music.
	And by gum, he and I both drew, it was a staircase with a stick figure on it.
	It was almost identical and I kept the paper.
	So things like that have just always happened to me.
	And I've always felt, am I rambling too much?
	No.
	And I always felt that we use a part of the brain that I almost think it was sort of de-evolved from times when we needed, like say agoraphobia, when you were in a tribe you basically needed to stay inside or you would be killed or even the need to fit in.
	Today we have such a desire to fit in with our peers.
	Well if you didn't fit in with the tribe you would be an outcast and you would starve and And we take so much of what happens with animals for granted from the simple to the complex.
	Like even I noticed when my cat gave birth to kittens it knew how to take care of them and it ate the placenta.
	And I started thinking all these animals and even some like bugs that can turn themselves into leaves make them look just like it.
	Well it seems to me that maybe we've lost some ability of the brain.
	to even maybe that's how we communicated telepathically because we didn't have the ability for speech.
	And so it seems to me that a lot of these things are very ordinary and everybody has
	the capacity for unconscious foreknowledge and we're just being able to talk about it
	more without feeling silly.
	And so can I just add one more little story in?
	One more little quick story.
	My brother had been going through a hard time and he didn't have any relationships.
	So my mother and I sat down and we said, okay, we've got to pull somebody from the ether for him.
	We got specific with her hair color, etc.
	He's married now and he met somebody.
	She was almost like the exact person that we described.
	Psychic matchmaker.
	It was very interesting, yeah.
	All right.
	Well, you know, the whole point of that call, I think, it was a pretty good one, really.
	Because there is a lot of natural, innocent, psychic or mental ability that goes on between mates and family members.
	And it just does seem natural, doesn't it, after a while?
	And it also, I got from her call, the sense of grace.
	Gratitude for the various ways in which magical things happen in our lives.
	The whole thing about being able to manifest was really, I thought, very nice.
	And the other thing about it was the whole notion of the inner wisdom, that perhaps there are things that we're losing, and how do we recultivate them?
	How do we reawaken inner wisdom?
	Quite so.
	Ability to listen to ourselves.
	All right.
	We'll listen now to West of the Rockies.
	You're on the air with Dr. Schlitz.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	Hi.
	Where are you?
	Hi.
	I'm calling from San Diego, California.
	Okay.
	Doctor, I had a question for you.
	I wanted to know what advice you would have for someone like me who has a... You're deteriorating on us.
	You're on a cell phone, obviously.
	Uh, we've lost her.
	Are you there, hun?
	Nope.
	She's gone.
	That's a cell phone for you.
	Uh oh.
	Great technology.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Schlitz.
	Hello.
	Hi, uh, this is Greg, um, out of Wisconsin.
	Yes, Greg.
	And, uh, the question I have for you, doctor, how you doing this evening?
	Hi, thank you.
	Um, is, uh, for a while I've had this, I don't know why, I've had this ability of, like, uh, knowing the end of a song, um, without even hearing, I mean, hearing it for the first time I'd ever heard it in my life before, Sometimes for some reason I feel like I can read people's minds once in a while when I'm talking to somebody and so I know what they're going to say.
	Do you mind if I give one real quick story there, Art?
	Real fast?
	Real fast.
	When I was in high school I used to have this guy that used to pick on me all the time in high school.
	One time we went on a real quick field trip and we were up in these mountain areas and I really didn't like this guy too much.
	For some reason, I was concentrating, I was thinking to myself, like, I wish something would happen to this guy that would wake him up that he wouldn't pick on me anymore.
	Exactly at that same time on that field trip, a rock landed on his head.
	A rock?
	A rock.
	A big rock.
	It landed on his head and his hands.
	He had his hands on top of his head.
	Yes.
	And, you know, he ran on the hospital and everything.
	And a while later, when I bumped into him, he was real nice to me.
	It was really weird.
	I mean, it's like I...
	I felt like I had a connection at one point that I just thought about it.
	I said, something's going to happen to wake this guy up.
	And it just happened like that.
	I don't know if that, you know, if that is any ability at all.
	I don't know if it's just something I just have in me or something.
	Do you feel guilty about it?
	Yeah, I felt real guilty about it.
	I was like, I couldn't believe I actually hurt the guy thinking about it.
	Something happened to him.
	Yeah, I hear you.
	Well, let's see, there's a lot in that.
	Certainly it reveals the complexities of all the stuff we're talking about and that anything that can be used for good can potentially be used for harm.
	It's an irony for me that to wake up he had to go to sleep, which was probably he lost consciousness and then he regained consciousness in a new way.
	One can't conclude that that was a causal There are many ways in which these kind of things work.
	One possibility is that you picked up on the fact ahead of time that it was going to happen, not that you caused it, but that you perceived it.
	Again, is this a remote viewing thing, or is this a mind over matter thing?
	It might not have had anything to do with... That's true.
	It could be precognition.
	It could be a perception of something, and then you personalized it because it fit with your feelings about this kid.
	But rather than thinking that you were the cause of it, I think it's easier to think
	about it as the possibility that you perceived something.
	All right.
	Doctor, we are out of time.
	It has been a pleasure having you here, and I would love to have you back when you're able.
	In the meantime, enormous numbers of people are going to my website, jumping to yours, and taking the PSI test.
	Excellent.
	We love that.
	I'd really like to know how that comes out.
	Great, and hopefully lots of people will join as members of the Institute of Noetic Sciences.
	Indeed.
	Thank you, Doctor.
	Thank you.
	Good night.
	Good night.
	All right.
	We're going to cut the program about one hour short again tonight.
	Probably do that for the next night or so to try and gauge how my wobbly spine is able to handle this many hours of sitting.
	In the meantime, what we're going to do is repeat the first hour.
	There's a very interesting caller.
	Actually, I called him in the first hour.
	So if you didn't hear that first time around, you're going to want to hear it coming up.
	In the meantime, I'm Art Bell from the high desert.

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