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June 14, 2001 - Art Bell

02:47:46

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Nuclear Confrontations - US, Russia, and China - Philip Hoag

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	Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 14, 2001.
	From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and
	or good morning or afternoon, wherever you may be across the world, actually.
	you From, commercially, the island of Guam in the west, hello out there on the rock, how's life?
	Eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands, where I know how life is.
	In the South America, North, all the way to the Pole, and of course, worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM and I'm Art Bell.
	Great to be here.
	Now let's see what's going on in the world.
	We're going to be open lines this first hour.
	Senate passes education bill.
	Okay.
	Fragile Middle East ceasefire.
	It may be that too.
	Tested.
	We'll see.
	Uh, let's see.
	EU-Bush environmental policies, wrong.
	This is from the, uh, Associated Press now.
	President Bush sparred with EU officials Thursday as they accused him of pursuing environmentally wrong policies.
	The president, who spurned a global warming treaty in 1997, downplayed their differences, said, we don't agree on the Kyoto Treaty, but we do agree that climate change is a serious issue.
	Hey!
	That's an advance!
	Now, continuing the quote, and we must work together.
	Police arrested more than 200 as Bush met with European leaders at the midpoint of his first overseas trip.
	Now, we have been getting a very great deal of reaction to the idea, NASA's, NASA-aimed idea of moving Earth.
	The reaction to moving Earth has been rather heavy.
	Karen, in Portland, Oregon, succinctly and shortly says, Our government can't even design a workable missile defense system.
	How in the world do they, or NASA, think they're going to successfully move Earth into a different orbital position without creating some kind of catastrophic event?
	Talk about going to college and having the common sense educated right out of you!
	They may well be educated, but they're not very smart.
	They're going to kill us all!
	Thanks for your time, Karen.
	Or this.
	Mr. Bell, I was fascinated by your story on Wednesday's program about NASA and the possibility of moving the Earth personally.
	I'm not really for it.
	Especially when you mentioned the slightest error could basically wipe out all life forms on the face of the Earth.
	I was wondering, while you were discussing the subject, could that be what happened to Mars?
	Maybe the, in quotes, intelligent life there had the ability to travel to Earth like they are supposedly able to do now.
	Let's say they saw Earth and liked its environment with a warm climate, livable atmosphere.
	They probably said, let's try and move Mars closer to Earth, so we can have a planet just like that one, instead of our cold one.
	So, they put a large group of Martians on a ship and went to Earth.
	You know, in the unlikely event that their planet should be wiped out.
	So their intelligent life tried, in whatever way to move the planet, instead of success, they were met with great failure.
	Mars was eliminated, all life gone, and only the Martians, now Earthlings, us, remained.
	That would explain why we continue to see them today with UFO sightings.
	Think about it.
	Maybe the face on Mars is where the entire accident, maybe a comet, crashed into the planet.
	Just a thought.
	And then, Tim... Tim writes the following.
	A senior White House official scoffed at NASA's plans to use asteroids to move Earth's orbit in order to deter global warming.
	Quote, the idea is simply ludicrous given the track record of NASA's recent escapades, said Derek D. Oilman.
	Mr. Oilman is the Bush administration's interim national science advisor.
	When asked if the administration had any proposals of its own, Mr. Oilman replied, why, of course we do.
	I'm pleased to announce that in response to the recent report on global warming, President Bush has now authorized me to implement his own plan to counter this environmental crisis.
	I would also like to point out that contrary to what the press has reported, Mr. Bush has been keenly aware of the problem and this plan ready for implementation months ago.
	This plan will not only forestall the dangerous warming of Earth, but will also address the terrible energy problems the state of California has recently experienced.
	I must tell you, that as a scientist, I was stunned by the pure simplicity and elegance of Mr. Bush's idea.
	Although the President has no scientific training, his grasp of orbital dynamics and physics is truly astounding.
	This, then, is what our President proposes.
	On July 4th, 2001, every single able-bodied American man, woman, and child shall be gathered along the California border at precisely 9 a.m.
	Eastern Time, 5 a.m.
	Pacific.
	When the sun is at the farthest distance respective to the Earth, everyone shall jump up and down three times.
	The resulting displacement of mass at this point, and at this time, will push the Earth farther from the Sun, and the result will be a gentler, cooler planet.
	And as an added bonus, the force imparted to the San Andreas Fault will result in the state of California falling into the sea, thereby negating any further problems with providing it any energy whatsoever.
	Not to mention worrying about electoral votes in 2004.
	The President, of course, regrets any inconvenience to the people of California and will expedite their tax rebates to ensure they receive them before July 3rd.
	As the President's Interim Science Advisor, I fully endorse this plan and applaud Mr. Bush's courage to make this hard decision for the good of the entire planet.
	Thank you all and God bless America.
	Well, what the hell.
	Well, we'll see you next time.
	This is sent to me by Timothy, who says the veil art is thinning like my hair rapidly.
	Here's a story from Nairobi, Kenya.
	A primary school in Kenya's eastern province was Thursday closed indefinitely following an alleged invasion by ghosts.
	The head teacher of a primary school in Kitui district, that's K-I-T-U-I district, James Boo told Punt, that's the news service, that he closed the schools after parents withdrew their children following attacks by the alleged ghosts.
	He explained the pupils became possessed and fell down whenever the ghosts struck.
	During such incidences, he explained, boys complained of being strangled while girls said they were being sexually harassed.
	A senior education officer in that district Could not persuade the parents to keep their children at the school any longer.
	The parents demanded cleansing of the school before they could let the children go back.
	Meanwhile, some parents and teachers have accused a retired military officer living close to the school of being behind the invasion of so-called ghosts.
	That's what they've done, though.
	They've closed the school entirely.
	This from David.
	Art, I live in Eastern Tennessee, and Bigfoot is simply not at the top of everyone's subject list.
	Some folks here see UFOs once in a while, tell ghost stories, but Bigfoot is never talked about.
	I had never even heard of Bigfoot until I joined the Army in 1980 in the fall of 79.
	My brother and I were driving home just about dusk.
	There was a light drizzly rain coming down.
	We were on a dirt road and traveling at about 10 miles an hour.
	When all of a sudden this huge creature jumped off a six-foot bank just within our car lights, strolled across the road and into the woods.
	Needless to say, I stopped instantly, hair standing on end.
	As we discussed what we had seen, my brother informed me that he had seen them, in quotes, several times while out hunting.
	He said they were at least three of them.
	One of which was smaller than the other two, we figured that the younger one.
	And I asked if they made any sort of noise, and he mimicked the sounds as best he could.
	I asked if they had known of his presence, and he said that one turned and looked straight at him, and then turned and continued to eat berries with the rest of them, in quotes.
	I asked if he'd been afraid, and he said, at first, but that past curiosity took over.
	I've shared my experience with very few people, and would appreciate my last name not being used, because I don't want any publicity or to be aggravated with folks pestering me all the time, but the creature I saw looked nothing like the pictures of Bigfoot that I've seen.
	This creature was hairy from its waist down to its feet, but from the waist up, it looked almost like skin, although it more closely resembled a snake skin, both in color and texture.
	It was almost a bronze color with fine black lines, kind of like a rattlesnake.
	I've taken into account that it was raining and dusky dark, so maybe my eyes were just playing tricks on me, but I want to know if what I was seeing was a Bigfoot or something else.
	The only way to know that is to read this to you and see what you have to say about it.
	the right i'm not so sure about this next one but i want to read it
	to you because i would like some of you to check it out and tell us gentleman if
	he's right or wrong Art, I'm working and keeping an eye on the GOES satellite webcams tonight when I notice something a little odd.
	A new storm appears to be developing in the Gulf.
	The last four shots from the GOES 81R satellite Show what looks like a small eye developing close to the Yucatan Peninsula.
	As I looked at the sequence of frames, I realized what had caught my eye.
	This storm is rotating, albeit slowly, but definitely clockwise.
	And I'm trying to recall, is that the way it's supposed to happen, or is that all wrong?
	I'm trying to remember pictures of hurricanes, and it seemed to me that they were clockwise.
	Hurricanes should be clockwise, shouldn't they?
	Anyway, there you have it.
	You might take a look and see if anybody can confirm that.
	And then this is kind of interesting.
	It comes from a United Methodist minister.
	And I'd love to have this fellow on.
	His name is Jack.
	I won't give his last name unless he contacts me, and I have invited him to do so.
	He writes, Art, I am a United Methodist minister, but I enjoy thinking about theological, spiritual issues beyond the boundaries of traditional religion.
	I've been exploring for several years, somewhat on the QT, in that such openness is somewhat frowned upon by the church.
	Anyway, I'm occasionally aware for brief periods in the middle of the night, and I listen to you on my Walkman.
	Last night I heard a portion in which you mentioned that two individuals, yes indeed, had said the Bible was a result of about 40 people divinely inspired.
	I'm not sure who they were since I didn't hear that program anyway.
	The truth is, the Bible is actually the result of maybe hundreds of people.
	It is, in most cases, his words folks, collected snippets from the oral tradition or ancient pieces of writing, Incomplete in and of themselves.
	Let's read that again.
	It is in most cases collected snippets from the oral tradition or ancient pieces of writing incomplete in and of themselves.
	In addition, the Bible's contents depend on which version you may have.
	Various committees or councils made the decision as to which books, which are not books in the classic sense, were worthy of being included.
	As has often been said, a camel is a horse created by a committee.
	Not that the Bible is a camel.
	It's just that there are many sacred writings that were not included, and many of which are completely lost.
	In other words, bottom line, the origin of the Bible was not a clean and pure process succinctly describable.
	It was somewhat haphazard in its process, occurring through many centuries.
	That fact does not necessarily make it un-divine, in quotes.
	It merely puts it into the category of the human spiritual experience.
	Just thought you might be interested.
	Oh yes, Jack, I'm interested indeed.
	In fact, I found it shocking the other night when both of our scholars involved in the debate agreed that about 40 people indeed Divinely inspired people, it was said, received the word that was then written, recorded, and translated so many times.
	In Kentucky, there are some heartbreaking pictures.
	This particular picture comes from Arthur B. Hancock, owner of the Stone Farm And your heart would go out to these poor people with their foals dying.
	And I'm afraid the headline says, Kentucky breeders still aren't sure what caused the deadly syndrome.
	And one of the pictures is of a young boy lying down and hugging his dying foal.
	And, uh, I suppose these appeared probably in a, uh, what says Times staff writer from Lexington.
	These are some pretty emotional pictures for sure.
	And if something will put a tear in your eye, that's a young, young fellow, you know, he must be, I don't know, eight or nine, ten maybe, uh, lying down holding this poor dying foal.
	Well, they have their suspicions and we've heard a lot of reports and they've changed about what could be killing the foals back there, but they still don't know.
	Bottom line is, the real bottom line is, they don't know.
	In Salem, Oregon, No, correction, Salem, Ohio.
	I'm sorry.
	But they're receiving mass shots against meningitis.
	I guess you've heard about that.
	With grimaces and brave looks, the first of up to 5,800 Ohio school students and teachers rolled up their sleeves and started to get their shots Friday in a mass inoculation against a meningitis-related outbreak that has killed two teenagers there.
	The outbreak has spread fear and confusion through this blue-collar area about 40 miles from Cleveland Classes and graduations were canceled Friday as thousands of students and parents stood in line around vaccination centers set up at schools.
	And I think there's going to be more and more and more of this sort of thing.
	West Nile virus, the dangerous West Nile virus, probably is going to, they say now, spread well beyond the Northeast.
	As a matter of fact, CNN has been running a report suggesting that all 50 states have now got to be on the lookout for West Nile because it's common.
	In a report on the Western Hemisphere's first known outbreak of the mosquito-borne virus, researchers urged physicians to test aggressively their patients, report any suspected cases to public health officials so any new outbreaks can be controlled.
	Now that in itself to me is an interesting A sentence.
	So any new outbreaks can be controlled.
	If, you know, they had controlled the outbreaks they had, it would not now be spreading.
	You know, they had the fear that during the winter, the West Nile virus would sort of hibernate and then re-emerge as it has done.
	In the first outbreak in the New York City area in the summer of 99, at least 59 patients were hospitalized with West Nile infections.
	Seven died.
	Hundreds more had serious infections.
	People with diabetes, or those 75 years of age or older, were more likely, about five times more likely, to die than others.
	Healthy people generally have mild flu-like symptoms, or none at all, when bitten by an infected mosquito.
	They estimate only 1 in 100 West Nile infections causes symptoms.
	But you know, so they can quickly get it under control, well of course we should be vigilant and let them know when it's in the area.
	But if they had the ability to get it under control, one would think we wouldn't be worried about its spread, eh?
	I got an interesting press release from Lycos, the search engine Lycos, today.
	And they have measured, according to how many people I guess search for information on talk show hosts, the top 20 top personalities based on internet searches.
	Leading the pack is Howard.
	Howard Stern, congratulations Howard.
	Then Rush Limbaugh, number two, and I am number three, followed by Dr. Laura Schlesinger, Paul Harvey, Don and Mike, Opie and Anthony, Don Imus, Jim Rome, Tom Joyner, Man Cow, G. Gordon Liddy, Larry King, Phil Henry, Tom Likas, Joan Rivers, and so forth, on down the list.
	And I thought that was very nice, so thank you very much, Likos.
	Kind of cool information to just get dropped out of the blue.
	At any rate, Keith found a related page on Lycos, so that's on the website right now.
	All right, let's break here at the half hour, then we'll do open lines.
	Directly ahead on Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Archival, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 14th, 2001.
	14 2001 So long, listening to the strangest stories, wondering
	where it all went wrong, oh so long, so long, hold on, hold on, hold on, see what you got.
	I've been dreaming of a new tomorrow, waking in the morning sun.
	I'm not sure what I'm doing here.
	Out on the street I was talking to a man He said, so much for this love of mine
	That I don't understand You shouldn't worry, I said, that ain't no crime
	Cause if you get it wrong, you'll get it right next time You need direction, yeah, you need a name
	When you're standing at the crossroads of your high, we look the same
	After a while you get to recognize the signs So if you get it wrong, you'll get it right next time
	Out on the street I was talking to a man He said, so much for this love of mine
	That I don't understand You shouldn't worry, I said, that ain't no crime
	Cause if you get it wrong, you'll get it right next time I'm just a liar
	yeah the world
	you're listening to our bills over and over like featuring a replay of coast to coast a m from june
	fourteen two thousand one i've got an idea
	i wonder what happens in all of you all at once go to my coast the surgeon
	and type in the name are still Hey, maybe I could go from number three to number one, like... Like that.
	So everybody go to Lycos right now and search the name Art Bell.
	Really dumb, huh?
	We'll be back.
	I have here at the house an uplink transmitter.
	It's a KU band uplink transmitter and it transmits a show to satellite from here and then on, you know, the various steps to get to Big Bird to get to you at the radio station.
	This is the first hop, as it were.
	Earlier today, one of the pieces of equipment in the rack that transmits the signal to the satellite was making a real racket.
	I mean, I was sure... I'm sure you've heard fans before, where the bearings begin to go out, and it's kind of going... Like that.
	I can't really duplicate it for you.
	But making a really weird noise, like, boy, those bearings are on the way out.
	So I took a look, and I couldn't find any vents, as in where a fan would push air out.
	Immediate tip-off, maybe there's no fan.
	So, I call the network, they call the manufacturer, and they explain the problem, and the manufacturer says, oh, those would be capacitors.
	Oh my god.
	Capacitors.
	If my capacitors in this thing are making this noise, then we're really about to have a catastrophic explosion of some sort.
	Not really, but I was blown away.
	Anyway, a new unit will be here in the morning.
	The meantime seems to be holding up, but capacitors making that much noise, enough that it's annoying to be in the room to listen to.
	And it really sounded like a fan with the bearings going, and they tell me it's capacitors.
	Aye, aye, aye.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, hi, it's Laura from Miami.
	Hello, Laura.
	How are you?
	Fine.
	Ah, that's good.
	I was just wondering if you're going to have any of these NASA guys on to interview who say they want to move the Earth?
	Oh, hey, now there's a pretty cool idea.
	I imagine, my guess would be... Now, I should say it's just a guess, but I don't think they'd come on the air with me.
	I'd probably be able to get Randy on first.
	Probably.
	Oh my gosh.
	Oh, and hey, could you tell me another thing?
	A couple of nights ago, you were playing that repeat of Randy and the Bug Zapper with the spirit trapped inside?
	Yes.
	What ever happened to him?
	Well, I don't know is the answer.
	I have no idea.
	I have not done a follow-up to know.
	Oh, no.
	We don't know if ever it lasts.
	Well, you know, I'm thinking back, and that was a long time ago, but you know what?
	If I remember correctly, we did a follow-up broadcast.
	And I think Everett did get released.
	Ah, well, that's good.
	Yeah, Everett's off and flying somewhere.
	But I'm in the market.
	I'm in the market for anybody else who has trapped any kind of spirit.
	Oh, yeah, that's right.
	You've got to admit, that's kind of like Ghostbusters, right?
	Right, right.
	Well, what do you think of the idea of moving Earth to a cooler place?
	Not such a good idea.
	It may have tried to make our stay on our planet a lot longer, but then again, by trying to do that, they may have instantly killed us.
	Well, yes.
	Now, of course, when the sun eventually gets hot, it might be something worth trying billions of years in the future, but now, for global warming, boy, I just don't... Yeah, not too bad.
	Appreciate your call, ma'am.
	Thank you.
	Thank you, and take care.
	Not at the moment.
	We can take a lot of global warming until we decide to move the Earth.
	Can you imagine that the Moon would be stripped away from the Earth?
	Now, that would have pretty dire consequences if you strip our Moon away, aside from the fact that we're going to go tumbling off into space to our new location, whatever that is.
	To lose the Moon, That would probably have very serious consequences here on Earth.
	Very, very serious.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey, Art.
	This is No Lift in San Antonio.
	Yes, sir.
	Had some information for you on the hurricanes.
	Okay.
	In this part of the world, they spin counterclockwise.
	Counterclockwise?
	Counterclockwise.
	So, then, if... Really?
	So, then, if a hurricane, which it still would be, down off the Yucatan, was going the other way, Uh, that would be, or is it counterclockwise?
	Did he say counterclockwise?
	I can't even remember now.
	Which did he say?
	Uh, let's see.
	Clockwise.
	He said clockwise.
	So, if this storm really is rotating clockwise, It's going the wrong way.
	That would be, that would be unusual.
	Now, on the other, on the direct other side of the world, they would go clockwise.
	Yeah, I know, but this is not the other side of the world.
	Yeah, right, right.
	That'd be real, that'd be really unusual.
	Uh-huh.
	Maybe some people will take a look, then.
	Yep.
	A little eye-developing, going the wrong way.
	All right, sir, I appreciate it.
	Sure thing.
	Thank you.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Dan.
	Hi, Dan.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Idaho Falls.
	Okay.
	Let's talk about moving there.
	Okay.
	First of all, the Earth and the Moon are a two-body system.
	You run your comets up and down, north-south, directly between them.
	Isn't that why we have tides and stuff?
	Because of the Moon?
	Yeah.
	Okay, well, see, the people at NASA Ames... If you're going to keep everything stable... But the people at NASA Ames say that their scheme to move the Earth Would mean, in all likelihood, I could read you the quote here.
	Let's see.
	The plan has one or two worrying aspects.
	Let's see here.
	Oh yeah, here it is.
	There's also the vexed question of the moon.
	As the current issue of Scientific American points out, if Earth was pushed out of its current position, it's most likely the moon would be stripped away from the Earth.
	You have to do it just right.
	You have to run it directly between the Moon and the Earth.
	Yeah, but they're already saying... Otherwise you get instability.
	Yeah, but they're already saying, sir, that if they don't do it just right, the consequence is everything dies down to a microbiological level.
	True.
	You bust up Earth.
	You bust up Earth?
	Yeah.
	You also have to melt the comet before you go past Earth.
	Otherwise it's going to be throwing all kinds of rocks and stuff.
	Well... It has to be... If you melt the comet, then you negate The effect?
	No, you don't get rid of the gravity.
	The gravity of the first one, the 2,642 mile comet, is 1 49th of Earth.
	Do you really think this is a good idea?
	We've got to do it.
	one forty nine avertment
	do you do you really think this is a good idea uh... we've got to do it
	the sun is going to get to the three percent brighter within a year
	all you think so No, I've been notified.
	Hello?
	You've been notified?
	You see, there was a... Who notified you?
	Well, it comes through God.
	See, I'm God's messenger.
	So, this is... What about 666?
	I am messenger 666.
	Well, but that's the Antichrist guy's number.
	No, the Bible doesn't say that.
	The Bible just says I have the same number as what's going to happen.
	Well, that's the mark of the beast.
	Well, I have the same number as what's going to happen.
	Are you the beastie?
	No, not really.
	If that is your number, then you are.
	No.
	The Bible doesn't say that.
	Well, I don't expect you to admit it.
	Well, I'm the messenger boy.
	The messenger boy.
	I've been taking my information from the crop circles and giving it to the U.S.
	government.
	Messenger 666.
	Right?
	That's what we'll call you.
	Alright, thanks.
	Yeah, I remember him now.
	He's the guy who has decided and has received messages from God via the crop circles about what's going to happen.
	First time caller line, you are on the air.
	Good evening.
	Hey, this is Rick.
	Listening to your own screaming audio.
	What is your first name again?
	Red.
	Red, okay.
	Yeah.
	Cool.
	So, I am wondering about your Ouija board experience.
	Well, you can wonder all you want.
	I don't talk at all.
	Alright.
	Sorry.
	You're going to have to do better.
	That's one thing.
	The only thing I think in all these years I will not talk about.
	Alright.
	Still.
	Well, will you do your demon voice for me?
	I really reserve that for awfully special occasions, sir.
	There has to be some really important reason to do it.
	Now, the last caller I had, I'm sure you heard him, right?
	Yeah.
	I might have used it for him.
	Ah, what the hell.
	It's me.
	What do you want?
	What do you want?
	What the hell are you taking up my air time with this stuff for?
	Either tell me what you want or be off with you.
	Well... I was thinking about the Hopi Elders.
	Hopi... Hopi what?
	Hopi Elders?
	Yes.
	The Hopi Elders were pretty benevolent people, but you know... They tasted good, huh?
	I was thinking maybe not all the Hopi people could be bad people.
	Hopis were criminals and they went to jail.
	Would they be putting the Hopi Pokey?
	I hope I can get some more to eat tonight.
	Goodbye.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air, hello.
	Hi Art, this is Bill in West Hartford, Connecticut.
	Yes Bill.
	I'd like to talk about the Bible Code, please.
	What about it, Bill?
	I'd like to play devil's advocate, or maybe tongue-in-cheek, I'd like to play, I guess, atheist advocate, you could say.
	You just can't resist, can you, Bill?
	Well, I said it in a silly way, but nevertheless... Yeah, I know, but you nevertheless said it, Bill.
	I don't want to know!
	I don't want to know that you're an atheist!
	I don't care!
	I won't say it again, but let me get to my point.
	How can the two guests that you had on the other night about the Bible Code I honestly believe, without any data, that the Bible was inspired, quote-unquote, by God.
	In other words, neither of them were there 2,000 years ago or 4,000 years ago to see someone say, Oh, I feel inspired!
	I have to write this!
	It's coming from God!
	I must write this!
	No one was there.
	They weren't there.
	How can they believe it without just blind faith?
	Well, I, in essence, ask the very same question, Bill, but hearing you ask it almost gives me faith.
	I don't understand.
	Well, I don't know.
	There's just something about you, Bill.
	When you say it, it makes me want to believe.
	Well, I wish you were an atheist like myself.
	Good point.
	I'm not an atheist.
	I'm agnostic.
	Leaning toward believing.
	Actually, I do believe in a creative force.
	Something made all of this.
	Don't kid yourself.
	Something made all of this.
	Yes, I believe that.
	We don't even have good guesses from our scientists about how all of this was created.
	Not even a good guess.
	You talk to them about anything after the Big Bang and they go, hmm.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	This is Chris from San Diego, California.
	So what's going on down there?
	Oh, not much.
	It's fun and fun.
	I got an idea of how to spot the shadow people.
	Get a strobe light type deal and put a gauge on it to where you can adjust the frequency of the light.
	There are several people already way ahead of you who have written extensive E-mails and faxes to us about exactly that.
	That the frame rate or the strobe rate adjusted properly will indeed cause you to begin to see these people or, B, have an epileptic fit.
	Yeah, I bet.
	Well, I haven't heard anybody really talk about that, but I kind of figured there might be some people out there thinking about that, but I just thought I'd drop that to you.
	I appreciate it being dropped.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	First time caller line.
	You are on the air.
	Hey Art.
	Hey there.
	Uh, this is Jim calling from a cell phone out in New Mexico.
	In a big truck, right?
	In a big truck.
	Okay.
	How do I sound?
	Uh, you sound actually very, very good.
	I know you want to throw these things out.
	I know.
	But, uh, um, Art, have you ever thought about having on David J. Smith?
	No, because I don't know who he is.
	Of Newswatch Magazine out of Waxahachie, Texas.
	There's a lot of conspiracy theory as far as the government, the New World Order.
	Ah, the New World Order.
	Oh, yes.
	Communism.
	Communism?
	Yes.
	As it has to do with the Bible and modern day prophecy.
	Right.
	You might want to look them up sometime.
	No, not on the air, but go ahead and send it to me.
	I will consider almost anybody.
	Oh, that was something, wasn't it?
	We'll have him back on again.
	Give me one big toot on the horn there.
	Man, listen to that thing.
	How many pounds are you going down the road?
	Oh, we're looking at 80,000.
	80,000 pounds.
	80,000.
	Alright, thank you.
	80,000 pounds.
	Wow.
	Now that's big.
	As I prepare to consider taking off in my RV.
	My measly little maybe 30,000 pounds.
	But I'll tell you to me, who mostly spends his time driving at Geo Metro.
	That is our primary car here at Geo Metro.
	The concept of converting from that to a 30,000 pound vehicle is an interesting transition.
	And it takes a little shifting of the mind to avoid catastrophic occurrences.
	You have to think and act in a very different way when you have something 40 feet long.
	To me, see, that's long.
	These guys, they laugh at 40 feet.
	That's nothing to a trucker.
	But to me, going from a little Geo to 40 feet, that's West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello, Arco.
	Yes!
	Yes, I have a... just a little update on... I can barely hear you.
	Why don't you speak up like a normal human?
	Just a little update on the weather.
	That's good.
	Okay, just a little update on the weather in these states right now.
	There's nothing really severe.
	Well, that's just not true.
	Not true.
	The Plains States, sir, yesterday had a rash of tornadoes.
	Nebraska had tornadoes.
	And again, the weather is... Take a better look at the map.
	Along the cold front proceeding east.
	Well, I'm just looking at what's going on right now.
	There's severe thunderstorm warnings in effect for Texas.
	Another one in Texas.
	There you are.
	Oklahoma.
	Yeah, I took a look at the satellite imagery and would email, yeah, about that.
	Clockwise storm, yes.
	Yeah, that was a little bit odd.
	Normally it's, you know, the other way around, but... Well, yeah, but that shouldn't happen.
	You know, I suppose there could be a set of systems situated in such a way that it would cause a storm like that to begin rotating in the wrong direction.
	Of course, we should keep an eye on it.
	It seems to me if it keeps going in the wrong direction, then we have a number of questions we should be immediately asking.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Yes, Arch.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	I turned my radio off.
	Yes, how are you doing tonight?
	Just fine.
	I just want to let you know that I listen to your show while I'm playing massively multiplayer online games.
	So you can chew gum and walk at the same time?
	Well, it's what people... Actually, there's a lawyer from... I'm from Lincoln, Nebraska.
	Yes.
	And there's a lawyer from Lincoln named... No, no, don't give me his name.
	Oh, okay.
	He's representing the families suing the game companies that I play.
	I play their games while I'm listening to you.
	There's a lot of killing going on.
	Well, that's what video games are for.
	It's for...
	That's what I think.
	To get it out of your system so that you don't go into your office or your school and go crazy.
	Instead you do it on your TV.
	Right.
	Why do people watch a championship boxing match?
	For blood?
	Exactly.
	I don't make any... So this lawyer, without naming the lawyer or the video game company, because I don't want to hear about either one, what is he suing them for?
	What's the claim?
	It's, interestingly enough, it is very similar to, uh, I read some of the briefs, it's very similar to, um, uh, like the Joe Camel, um, advertising, where, where they, they claim that... Kids are being affected by this, right?
	Kids, well, not only that they're being affected, but they are targeting children, specifically teenagers, I think it's ridiculous.
	that the company that produced these games in the same way that cigarette
	companies producing cigarette
	know that no and then that there is supposedly internal documents well i'm
	sorry i'm i think it's right i think it's ridiculous listen i'm out of
	time from the top of the hour but i i don't know i think it's stupid
	i think it is I think... I tell you what, keep it going on.
	I listen to you every night.
	I think it's great.
	I mean, look at television.
	Then the same case could be made against producers of TV shows where they have murders and mysteries and stuff, right?
	Absolutely.
	And I think it's a relief.
	We're getting ready to legislate life out of existence, sir.
	Thank you for calling.
	I gotta go.
	Take care.
	Bye.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from June 14, 2001.
	I have been only half of what I am. It's all clear to me now. My heart is on fire.
	I've had nothing but bad luck since the day I saw the cat in the door. So I came into you, sweet love.
	So I came into you, sweet lady. And so when you missed it, cook off. Crystal ball on the table.
	Showing the future, the past. Same cat with them evil eyes.
	And I knew it was a spell she cast.
	She's just a devil woman with evil heart of mine. Beware the devil woman, she's gonna get you.
	She's just a devil woman with evil heart of mine. Beware the devil woman, she's gonna get you from behind.
	Give me the ring on your finger. Let me see the lines on your hand.
	Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired June 14th, 2001.
	By the way, somebody sent me a little sign in the mail that I really like and so I held it up for my webcam and I'll leave it there for a little while.
	It's kind of a cool sign.
	I think it, for me anyway, it says it all.
	It's about vegetarians.
	That's all I'll tell you.
	It's on my webcam.
	I'll leave it there for a little while.
	All right.
	Coming up in a moment, Philip Hogue, who is author of a book called No Such Thing as Doomsday.
	Of course, he may not have heard about NASA Ames' idea.
	How to prepare for Earth changes, power outages, war, and other threats.
	Well, that's timely, isn't it?
	Always, I suppose, in mankind.
	Always.
	Think about it.
	Earth changes, power outages, war, and other threats.
	Philip's message is not doom and gloom, he says, but practical experience, how-to information.
	His book, No Such Thing as Doomsday, shows people how to turn their concern into constructive action.
	Mr. Hogue is an expert in the field of disaster preparedness.
	Philip is also heavily involved in research.
	He's been studying Russian and Chinese military activity and the U.S.
	Defense Issues related to them for the past 12 years.
	Philip does interviews on radio talk shows around the nation, including a number of previous appearances right here.
	He's been a featured speaker at preparedness shows held in different parts of the U.S., has written articles that have appeared in American Survival Guide and the Preparedness Journal.
	Philip gives lectures, teaches classes, does consulting in areas of shelter building, and general preparedness.
	Over the last ten years, he's been involved in the design, organization, and construction of numerous disaster shelter projects.
	Philip lives in Montana on a small farm with his wife Arlene and their five children.
	So he must have a big shelter, huh?
	Philip is involved in emergency services.
	He is an emergency medical tech, helps manage a local volunteer ambulance service that he began eight years ago.
	Phillip also has an affiliate company, Yellowstone River Trading, that offers preparedness equipment and supplies to the public.
	in a moment well welcome to the program once again for the poll
	Hi, Phillip.
	It's always a pleasure to be on your show, Art.
	Happy to have you.
	From Montana, right?
	From Montana.
	It snowed here about eight inches.
	Say what?
	Well, we've been suffering a drought here in Montana, but the last couple of days we got rain and snow, believe it or not.
	I heard it snowed up in Colorado, too.
	Now, this is the middle of June, isn't it?
	Yes, it is.
	June 15th.
	Shouldn't really be doing that, should it?
	Well, in Montana it's kind of funny.
	Every once in a while we get snow in July.
	But, no, it's been, you know, as we seeing all over the planet we're having very unusual and
	extreme weather patterns
	but uh...
	we're very grateful here now because we got enough moisture to last us for the
	next month did you see what happened to houston
	yeah i saw the uh...
	there were over seventeen drownings talk about an under-reported national story
	They weren't ready for this at all.
	Usually when we have a hurricane, Philip, you know, CNN will dispatch people to go stand in the eye and hang on a pole so we can watch them trying to get blown away, and they'll talk about it approaching and showing pictures of people boarding up, you know, nailing boards on and all the rest of it, and or sandbagging, getting ready for flooding.
	You know, the usual that you see.
	Right.
	But not with this storm.
	This storm began to happen as it was forecast.
	Yeah, I heard it was totally unexpected and the storm seemed to go out and come back in.
	Didn't seem to, it did.
	It did.
	And then it just stayed right over Houston, creating a catastrophic event.
	But it's not the only thing.
	I mean, weather all over the planet is obviously changing.
	The only argument seems to be Well, I think that it's not only weather, but we're seeing other disasters.
	We're seeing wars.
	We're just seeing the quickening that you talk about, Art.
	I think that the average American person is so wrapped up in chasing prosperity and going to the shopping malls and watching sporting events on t.v. that uh... quite a bit of this just
	kind of goes by their right over their heads
	well i'm not big on the malls but lay off on the sporting events okay
	you know that's important part of american life well i agree and i think
	sporting is a great great thing and especially for our young children
	look i take your meaning don't worry about it i take your meaning
	we are kind of lost i suppose in modern civilization aren't we
	Yeah, in fact, it was kind of interesting.
	You must have gone out and seen the new Pearl Harbor movie.
	Not yet.
	Not yet?
	Not yet.
	We had a theater in Toronto, but it closed.
	I'm sorry, that's the truth.
	It sounds like it's about the size of immigrant Montana.
	Yeah, well, we have one traffic light.
	Pearl Harbor.
	No, I haven't seen it.
	The critics sure took after it, though.
	Well, you know, I don't read the critical reviews, but I was fairly impressed.
	There was some definite pertinent parallels to today's situation.
	It was interesting that at one point Roosevelt said that they're making weapons and we're making refrigerators.
	And I think it kind of typified today's American mentality.
	They're making weapons while we're making refrigerators.
	In other words, that was just prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor?
	Correct.
	Roosevelt said that?
	But now they're making refrigerators, right?
	While we're putting up a new weapons system, anti-missile system, supposedly.
	Well, we're talking about it, but it goes a little deeper than that.
	When we take, for instance, the situation with the Chinese, and we'll talk about it in detail, but they've basically built a weapons infrastructure Based on the profits they've made from the most favored trading partner status.
	Yeah, sure.
	We gave them the money.
	I'm sure that's right.
	There's a little something I don't get.
	President Bush is talking about building a fairly comprehensive anti-missile system, which really amounts to sort of a revival, or at least partially so, of SDI.
	And I asked this on the air, and you'd be the perfect guy to answer it.
	Who would you say we're building this defense system to protect against?
	Would you say it is China, which has a moderate to low capability to deliver a large number of nuclear warheads?
	They could deliver some.
	Or Russia, which still has capability but is in a political disastrous zone.
	Or who are we protecting against?
	Well, that's a very interesting question, because I think the American people are kind of in the dark on this whole missile defense issue.
	I am a little bit, because it was kind of my understanding, Philip, that it wouldn't be within our reach to protect against the numbers of weapons that, say, the old Soviet Union could muster, or even Russia could today muster, but against perhaps a limited attack like China would be capable of right now, we could probably build something without going broke.
	Well, the main thing that they talk about in the U.S.
	proposal for missile defense is protecting us against, quote, rogue nations.
	And so the key here is we don't want to, or the political people in power don't want to affront the Russians, don't want to affront the Chinese, that we're worried about, quote, maybe Iran or maybe North Korea.
	But the reality is, The Russians have their own missile defense system and it's far superior to the one that we're developing.
	We're trying to develop a system that in essence is like trying to shoot down a bullet with another bullet in the air where the Russians have developed a system where they actually use nuclear devices and they can detonate in the proximity of incoming missile and destroy it.
	And they have a multi-layered system completely in violation Of the ABM Treaty.
	Great.
	So it's kind of interesting, and actually I think it's kind of a trite issue at this point, because the, I guess what I would call the Marxist caucus, congressional caucus, has dragged their feet so long and done everything within their power to scuttle the deployment.
	You really think they're Marxist?
	I mean, that's pretty heavy.
	What's the old saying?
	You should know them by their fruits?
	I mean, we could go in and talk about this quite a bit.
	It's a good subject for another show.
	Well, let's talk about it for a second.
	I mean, really, that's a pretty heavy word.
	And if somebody is in opposition to the building of a missile system because they don't think it's practical, let's say.
	And because it'll cost so damn much money, and they just don't think it's practical, then I'm not sure that makes them a Marxist, exactly.
	Well, I'll agree with you on that basis, but let's look at the bigger picture of what I call the lowering of the alert status of the country, alright?
	Sure.
	And let's put the pieces together, and then we'll get the big picture.
	Now you take Mr. Clinton there, and he actually He instituted a new policy where in the event that our surveillance satellites detect the launch of nuclear weapons from Russia or China, our previous defense posture was to launch immediately.
	Now, the new policy, which Mr. Clinton instituted, was that we would absorb a first strike before we would launch retaliation.
	Well, that's just stupid.
	Now, why would we absorb a first strike?
	Well, I'll give you his argument.
	I mean, come on.
	Other than the subs, we've got about, what, 25 or 30 minutes warning if they launch from their oon-hoon territory, but subs less warning.
	So, what do you mean we'd absorb a first strike?
	What kind of idiotic... Well, I agree.
	Now, I'll give you the war project behind this.
	It's like, we're doing this as a show of good faith.
	What?
	I'm talking on behalf of... What kind of good faith do you... Good faith is not a phrase you use after you've been hit with nuclear weapons.
	Right, but you see...
	From the Clinton administration, the rationalization was, we're going to take things off a hair trigger.
	Well, then they were idiots.
	Well, I'm not arguing that.
	Now, you need to understand some of the logistics behind this decision and what the ramifications were.
	Why do you have to, in order to relax your finger away from the trigger a little bit, why do you have to get stupid?
	Well, it's like if you've got a guy running around your neighborhood with guns, you've decided If he pulls a gun on you, you're not going to draw your sidearm and defend yourself.
	You're going to absorb some bullets.
	Yeah, that's right.
	That's stupid.
	Okay, but it gets deeper than that.
	See, what happens when there's a launch?
	We've got surveillance satellites that can detect the infrared signature of a launch.
	Not only that, it can tell which silos have launched.
	So it knows which ones are empty.
	So when we fire the retaliation, alright, before those missiles hit down, we're actually aiming at silos that have not fired.
	We're not wasting bullets.
	Okay?
	Well, we have a lot of bullets.
	Right, but, now if we're going to absorb the first strike, uh... what they're targeting on a first strike is our heart
	in well i don't think for one second
	that if they ran in and said president bush all my god they've launched
	we see it massively coming from over the polls and you honestly think he's gonna say
	well my predecessor as you know has established policy of absorbing a first
	year before we retaliate everybody wait well i don't know how that's not going to happen
	well it it goes a little deeper than that i mean i'm not that critical
	of anymore of mister clinton that i am mister bush because mister bush we're
	gonna talk about some other things that happened during the clinton
	administration and he could have rescinded these things
	alright But the point is, is
	If we absorb the first strike, we will lose our ability to retaliate against hardened targets.
	We'll get our asses kicked.
	I mean, that's insane.
	Has the President changed that?
	No!
	No, he hasn't changed it at all.
	But what you need to realize, a lot of people say, well, you know, it isn't that bad because we've got our submarines.
	Now, wait a minute, folks.
	Most Americans don't realize that the weapons that we have on our missile submarines They're not large weapons and they don't have the capability for taking out hardened targets.
	They're strictly for retaliation against population centers.
	They're a deterrent.
	If we sit there and we absorb the first strike, they're taking out our ability to retaliate against their hardened missile silos, their command and control bunkers.
	We completely lose that capability.
	Can you tell me roughly how many nuclear weapons we have prepared to deliver in one form or another, either from silos or from aircraft or from submarines?
	How many nuclear weapons do you guess that we have that we could deliver?
	I think we have approximately 2,500.
	2,500?
	And Bush is talking about cutting that in half.
	You know, I don't have those exact figures in front of me, but it's pretty clear that the Russians presently have two to three times that amount minimum.
	That doesn't seem fair.
	Well, there's more that doesn't seem fair.
	Clinton also agreed to keep half of our missile submarines imported in one time, which basically makes them sitting ducks for a first strike.
	And not only did he do that... Pearl Harbor.
	He did one other cute little thing.
	What?
	The whole idea of the submarines is they can hide under the ocean, right?
	Yes.
	And it's hard to track them and figure out where they are.
	That's right.
	And in the event that some enemy launches a first strike against the United States, they can lay low until things cool down, and then they could rise up close to the surface, and the subcommanders, in the event that they were separated from U.S.
	command because of a nuclear war, had the authorization to launch those missiles.
	Clinton took away from the sub-commanders the unilateral right to launch those missiles.
	So the point is, now, those sub-commanders, if our command and control, our communication nodes, are cut off, they're not allowed to launch?
	They have no capability to launch.
	Are you saying that there is some electronic means by which our submarines would not or would have to be authorized something would have to go click click click correct before they could fire correct do the Russian or what the Russians always had that didn't they?
	I you know I really don't know well I don't know that the Russian Russian commanders never had independent ability to launch I see that it was all centralized I see so maybe that's I mean if that Prevents a sub-commander on their side and or our side from doing something... I don't think that's the case with the Russian sub-commanders.
	That may have been the case on the automated system that they have on their ground base within Russia.
	But I think your foreign units and your ships and submarines always had manual launch capabilities, is my understanding.
	But anyhow, it doesn't end their arc.
	They took our strategic bombers off alert.
	Right.
	SAC is standing down.
	We have no civil defense.
	The Russians have built a national civil defense network capable of housing 70% of the civilian population.
	That doesn't speak about what they've built for the military, for the leadership.
	Now, we can't be too critical of the Russians trying to shelter Their elite and their leadership, because the United States government, although it hasn't spent a nickel... Would it be better, Phillip, if everybody had shelters?
	Here in the U.S.
	we all had shelters, and in Russia they all had shelters.
	Or would it be better if everybody on both sides had no shelters at all?
	Which scenario is likely to invite a war?
	Well, this is what the Mad Doctrine was way back in the McNamara era.
	The Russians came up to us.
	We talked to the Russians.
	We said, we've got this idea, comrades.
	And it is, we will eliminate nuclear war because you will agree not to build shelters for your civilian population.
	And we will agree the same thing, comrade.
	And then, therefore, you will never launch attack against us because we will obliterate, obliterate your civilians.
	And you will never attack us.
	Excuse me, and we will never attack you because you will obliterate our civilians.
	The only problem was is they took technology that Oak Ridge Labs spent 12 years developing, civil defense technology, and as soon as the ink started drying on that treaty, they started building a national civil defense network for their civilians.
	All right.
	Hold it right there, Philip.
	We'll be right back.
	I'm Art Bell.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 14, 2001.
	The Coast to Coast AM concert was held at the San Francisco International Airport on June 14, 2001.
	The concert was held at the San Francisco International Airport on June 14, 2001.
	Like a dog without a bone, an actor out on loan.
	Writer's on the storm.
	There's a killer on the road.
	His brain is squirming like a toad.
	J.K.
	Long Island did it.
	Oh my, why are we talking about this?
	in time on premier radio networks tonight an ongoing presentation of
	christopher's day and from june fourteen two thousand one pictures of slim dickens writing the big
	one down uh... my
	why are we talking about this well if you talk to somebody like uh... doctor michio kaku
	you may recall doctor kaku said
	the thing most likely to disqualify us from proceeding as a type one civilization
	will be the discovery and ultimately you ultimately the use of
	element ninety two that he thinks most civilizations
	the cosmos don't make it through their discovery of element ninety two
	you.
	That's why.
	Because it's still all there, folks.
	All those weapons.
	You think it could still end that way?
	that's what we're talking about yes and so philip uh... hoag is our guest and philip i'm
	wondering in your heart of hearts philip
	uh... forget everything else and it goes straight to your heart of hearts uh...
	how likely do you think it is that we will end up with a nuclear exchange
	How likely?
	Well, if something doesn't change drastically within the next five years, I see one of two Either we have a nuclear exchange, or we surrender.
	What?
	I say we either have... Well, I guess I heard you.
	A nuclear exchange or a surrender.
	What are you talking about?
	What could happen in five years, lay it out for me, that would cause us to surrender?
	Well, you've got a case of incrementalism here, where slowly we disarm, slowly we become more and more vulnerable, And it's like if you've got a neighbor that, you know, you keep trying to appease him and you sell your gun and say, Hey, look, I just sold my guns.
	We're going to be friends.
	And you say, I'm going to lend you money now.
	You know, we'll be friends.
	And he takes the money and he buys more guns.
	He buys more ammo.
	And one of these days, you know, he's either going to come over and there's going to be a real fight with you or you're going to say, Hey, you can have the house.
	You can have the wife.
	Well, you can have the bank account.
	Just let me be your servant.
	Let me be your slave and work for you.
	And you think that's where it could be headed, huh?
	Well, let's do a little more of it.
	To whom would we surrender?
	The Chinese?
	The Russians?
	Who?
	Well, you know, it might be some international government organization.
	You know, the way that... You mean like the UN, say?
	Well, we just got kicked off the UN.
	Human Rights Commission.
	I heard that.
	How come we got kicked off the Human Rights Commission?
	Because of our death penalty or what?
	No, it's just a political, global political game and the UN is becoming more and more hostile toward the United States.
	And a lot of people in other foreign countries are kind of tired of living in the shadow of the U.S.
	And they see another superpower is coming on the horizon.
	And so you're seeing a lot of third world countries, it's happening in Latin America.
	Well, who's the new superpower, China?
	China?
	China is definitely positioning itself.
	Yeah, I really would tend to agree with that.
	China is going to be a superpower, and they are going to eventually overwhelm us.
	Unless something else happens, they will run over us like an elephant stepping on an ant.
	And if you've ever been to China, you know that.
	It's only a matter of time.
	And how much time is the question?
	Time and technology and funds.
	And that's the same thing that happened before, previous to World War II.
	The Japanese didn't even have steel.
	They were coming over here with ships and picking up all of our scrap metal.
	It was U.S.
	investment.
	It was U.S.
	technology.
	It was U.S.
	Resources that made the Japanese war machine.
	And the same thing happened in China.
	We have shipped our prosperity there.
	We have shipped our jobs there.
	You've got Motorola.
	You've got Boeing.
	You've got all these major corporations that are downsizing in the US that are increasing their operations in China.
	That's true.
	You know, our jobs and our prosperity... That's not exactly a parallel to Japan, though.
	In fact, quite the opposite.
	We did not export jobs to Japan prior to World War II.
	I'm not saying... There is not quite that parallel.
	And that the idea that I guess the apologists would suggest is operative here, and the difference here with China is that we will slowly change them.
	That they are economically Gonna go one way or the other.
	I mean, they're taking off now, and whether we help them or not, it'll only make a little difference in time and how fast they get going.
	And so, we're taking the tact that if we get them economically involved with us, and we're all holding hands, nobody's gonna want to blow each other up.
	That's the theory.
	Yes, I agree.
	The US leaders are falsely expecting to modify communist behavior.
	But in reality, we're leaving ourselves vulnerable as we ignore the long-term consequences.
	Now, the Chinese teach their people that as long as there are class differences between the oppressed and the oppressing, there can be no peace in the world.
	And they're talking about the United States.
	And, you know, they may have some valid points there when we look at the corporate Make up of the U.S.
	government and our kind of ruthless economic domination and raping of resources in a lot of third world countries.
	I mean, the average American person doesn't realize what the third world perspective of the United States is.
	We're not loved.
	We're not loved and for many, many times for very good reasons because Let's face it, the foreign policy of the United States is the foreign policy of the large corporations here.
	That's pretty much true.
	It's pretty much dollars and cents.
	But getting back to this... Yeah, but you see, that's worked out so far.
	In the sense that, you're right, we're capitalists, without apology.
	And so far, it's worked.
	I mean, look at the Soviet Union.
	Right?
	Economically.
	If you go to Russia right now, it's pathetic.
	What's going on in Russia right now is sad and pathetic.
	And a once very proud communist dictatorship is now pathetically nothing.
	All they've got are nuclear weapons and that's it.
	And some pretty good ones.
	Well yeah, pretty good ones.
	I agree with you there, but I mean everything else has gone to hell over there.
	They just have failed miserably.
	It's the communist archetype that you see also in North Korea.
	Ah, correct.
	The people can starve, but the high priority is the weapon.
	That's true.
	But anyhow, Art, jumping back to, we didn't quite finish up what we were talking about, about the mad doctrine, the fact that You know, it really is mad.
	It's insane to think that you would allow your enemy to hold your civilian population as a hostage.
	As a nuclear hostage.
	And that's what we agreed to.
	And then they reneged on the deal.
	And we never did anything to protect our civilian population.
	Meaning they went ahead and they built shelters for as many as 70% of their people, and we haven't.
	Right?
	Right.
	Of course, the government of the United States has gone to great extents in the perpetuation of government programs to build facilities and regional FEMA command posts.
	They're all hardened.
	You've got Mount Weather.
	Oh, Mount Weather!
	You know, I read this really cool article not long ago and put it up on my website about Mount Weather.
	What can you tell me about Mount Weather?
	Well, it's part of the program for the perpetuation of government, or the preservation of government, and they actually have a complete duplicate government, which is always standing by and ready to move into action in the event that our existing government officials were killed by some surprise attack.
	And they actually have people that are referred to as Mr. President and Mr. Vice President.
	They've got representatives there from all the departments, including... Now, I know how our Constitution lays out succession, so how could you have people being referred to as Mr. President?
	I mean, who would pick Mr. President, Mr. Vice President, Mr. Speaker of the House, Mr... Well, my understanding is they're already selected, and it falls under the category of emergency powers.
	And which steps outside of the arena of the Constitution and moves into more executive, direct executive rule and power.
	So in other words, Bill Gates would be President?
	Well, whoever they've got in there that's sitting at that polished desk, he's not President now.
	But in the event that the President and the Vice President... And everybody dies.
	Then he would... And the Constitutional succession is, you know, whoever's sitting in that chair is going to take over command and make decisions.
	Boy, what must that be like?
	I mean, Mount Weather is gigantic, right?
	Well, it's nothing compared to Yamatoo Mountain, and I think we talked about this on previous shows, that even under Yeltsin, when they were bellyaching that Russia was so bankrupt and we had to bring this infusion of 200 billion dollars into Russia, they were building Yamatoo Mountain, which is in the Euros, and it's the largest underground complex in the world.
	They say it's as large as the area inside the Washington Beltway.
	Wow.
	That would be big.
	That would be very big.
	So that's their emergency.
	As a matter of curiosity, Philip, with our best bunker-penetrating gigantic megaton nukes, we couldn't destroy their mountain, they couldn't destroy ours?
	My understanding is they have the capability to take out Cheyenne Mountain.
	I don't know if they have the full capability to take out Mount Weather.
	I know the U.S.
	during the Persian Gulf War started developing deep penetrating weapons for taking out underground bunkers, but I don't think the United States has anything in its inventory to take out Yamato Mountain is my understanding from people I've talked to.
	And, basically, the Russians have, based on their experience in World War II, and they have a completely different cultural mentality, they lost millions of people during World War II, they have decided that they could engage, wage, and survive, with acceptable levels of loss, nuclear war.
	And that's their military strategy.
	But!
	But that's not the end of the story!
	You know, every time we talk about missile defense, it goes back to the seventies.
	We had all the technology we could have put it in place.
	As soon as we started talking in Congress about doing it, the Russians came over and said, this is going to escalate the arms race.
	It's like if you lived in a bad neighborhood and you started talking about buying some body armor, all right, because they're drive-by shootings.
	All right.
	Sure.
	And the neighbor came over and said, this is going to escalate tensions with me.
	You're wearing body armor.
	That you're wearing body armor.
	I mean, you're not buying a shotgun.
	You're just wearing body armor.
	But, you know, this gets so twisted around the Chinese and the Russians say, you know, you people are aggressors.
	Well, the only thing I would say is the following.
	If you put a defensive shield in space, Fine.
	It's body armor, as you point out.
	But once you've got that stuff up there, Philip, you know, and I know, that what is classified as defense could quickly be, I'm sure, utilized in some fashion for offense.
	And or taking out the other side before they take you out.
	So it could be looked at, if you put yourself in their shoes, it could be looked at that way.
	As not purely defensive, but as potentially offensive as well.
	And you and I both know that's probably right.
	Right.
	Well, there may be some truth to that, but let's look at our body armor and their body armor.
	We've got no body armor.
	The average American after the Gulf War, you know, sees heroic footage of the Patriot anti-missile Actually, I heard that mostly they missed anyway.
	missile system we got those patriot missiles sorry folks doesn't work that way
	that's a theater missile defense system it will not take out an incoming intercontinental
	ballistic missile
	actually i heard that mostly they missed anyway
	that's correct and not only that because we're trying to be such good guys and be
	in compliance with the uh... anti-missile treaty we actually
	took the patriot missile system and we tied one of its arms behind its back
	we technically downgraded that system
	just to be because of the the heavy disarmament camp in washington and the fact that we had to be
	so compliant with these treaties that the russians and chinese were violating
	well you know i'm a realist and i realize we still live in a rough and
	tumble world But somewhere between building a full space-based God-knows-what and doing nothing, there's got to be some sort of happy medium.
	Well, the first key, if you don't want to be continually in an arms race, you've got to stop giving your advanced technology away to your enemies.
	And maybe this is the corporate key behind the situation.
	Maybe the people that really run the show want to keep The arms race going.
	I want to keep the big corporations like... Okay, here's the way they think.
	In other words, you're saying don't give away your technology.
	Even Ronald Reagan recognized that we should have some sort of missile defense, right?
	Correct?
	Correct!
	And he also seemed to recognize that that missile defense would be regarded by our enemies as a unacceptable advantage and that's when I recall that he offered sharing some technology with the Soviets at that point for that reason so they would not feel overwhelmed and feel the need While they're slipping backwards economically to use the nukes they have and just get it on while they still can.
	Isn't that about right?
	Yes, basically.
	But see, the part you don't realize is that the Russians were in the process of deploying, at that time, their own space-based missile defense system.
	See, they, for being a bankrupt country, They have historically done many more space shots than the U.S.
	That's true.
	And 9 out of 10 of those space shots were military-oriented.
	They recognized a long time ago that he who dominates space will dominate the Earth.
	That's certain.
	You can bet on that.
	Now, there's one other thing, too.
	Well, just to give you an idea, the Russians have a multi-layered missile defense system They've kind of camouflaged their ABMs.
	They've kind of written them off and represented them for the West as service-to-air missiles.
	But they've got a very effective multi-layered defense system of interceptors, and they use small nuclear devices, low-yield nuclear warheads, that are very effective because you only have to get close to take them out.
	And I know people who work for the Department of Defense, who are working on our Missile Defense Program, and every time they argue about the present course of the U.S.
	Missile Defense System and say, well, why don't we do it like the Russians?
	They get fired.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	Why?
	If we're having a hard time hitting a BB with a BB, and so far we are, more tests fail than succeed.
	I think we have one success, sort of.
	But if we can't do that, then why not use the old shotgun approach?
	Right.
	Why not try and hit a BB with a hand grenade?
	Exactly.
	Why not?
	The only thing I can figure, when you look at some of the insanity of the other things that we see going on, that you say, how could anybody do that?
	Is there are people behind the scenes that don't want to see it happen.
	That are trying to run it into a dead end.
	And I mean, that's my personal assessment.
	Don't you think it's possible we have some sort of secret technology that nobody knows about, but that they would be afraid to tackle?
	Well, I know of some technology we have that is in violation of treaties.
	I can't say.
	Well, yes you can.
	What do we have that's in violation of treaties?
	Are we orbiting nuclear weapons?
	Well, I don't know that we're orbiting nuclear weapons.
	I know for a while, you know, I happen to know an installation where they put in a laser cannon that could take out anything for 40 miles around, which is in violation of a treaty.
	In space?
	No, this was on the ground.
	On the ground.
	Well, that wouldn't necessarily be a violation.
	Putting it in space, that would be.
	I've thought for a long time, we've probably got nukes going around up there.
	Well, the Russians do.
	It would be part of it.
	Oh, you think they do?
	Oh, yes, definitely.
	All right, hold on.
	We'll be right back.
	Philip Hogue is my guest.
	There's a comforting little feeling.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from June 14th, 2001.
	Welcome to the Coast to Coast AM.
	I've been coming here at night all night.
	Now I've been waiting for this moment for all my life Oh Lord Can you feel it coming in the air tonight?
	Oh Lord, Oh Lord Well if you told me you were drowning
	I would not lend a hand You're listening to ArcBell, somewhere in time.
	The night featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from June 14, 2001.
	We're talking about good old Element 92, and the same old... Well, you know what, though?
	There's really a couple of new things to think about in the world of Element 92.
	One of them we mentioned at the very end of last hour, and I want to inject that again.
	A couple of other things.
	We'll do another hour with Philip Hogue.
	And then we'll do some open lines.
	But there are a number of topics that I want to cover with him.
	Changes, really, since the days of the Cold War.
	And there have been a lot of changes.
	They're all around us.
	in the air and I think in space too.
	Alright, just going into the news break at the top of the hour.
	Phillip, you said that you believe the Russians are orbiting nuclear weapons.
	Now, if that's true, everything is more or less moot anyway, and I don't know what good a space-based defense does you if the surprise attack comes from orbit.
	In other words, If instead of an ICBM launched from land or sea, which gives you, as you pointed out earlier with the spy satellites, why we can look down and we can see him launching and we can go, oh my God, and do whatever we're going to do.
	But if it's orbiting already and all somebody does is de-orbit a nuclear weapon, it explodes instantaneously without any warning over US cities.
	Boom!
	Just like that.
	Actually, I wasn't referring to that, but I think that now that you bring it up, and I've really never had anybody talk about that or discuss it.
	It seems logical.
	Well, that's right.
	They won't talk about it.
	They won't talk about it.
	But I'll talk about it.
	It's there.
	I mean, it would just happen.
	You would have multiple, you'd have MIRVed reentering warheads that would instantly be on you.
	There would be no warning.
	There'd be no boost phase.
	There'd be no 25-minute flight.
	It would be kaboom.
	What I was referring to, and I agree with you, and I think that's really a brilliant observation, but what I was referring to is weapons in space, in satellites, that would be detonated as a prelude to a nuclear launch, and they would not have any direct effects down to the surface of the Earth.
	In other words, they wouldn't damage anything.
	Uh, on the North American continent, other than the electromagnetic pulse, which you, being a good ham operator, understand, and it would just devastate electronics.
	You bet.
	It absolutely would.
	Now, Jerry interjects this.
	I bet you have seen the latest made-for-Showtime movie, remake of The Beach.
	Jerry says, look, if they launch all the nukes at once, and we do, It simply won't matter.
	None of this will matter.
	And it's a point.
	I mean, if we have a full nuclear exchange, it's over anyway.
	Well, no.
	And let me qualify and explain that.
	Yes, please do.
	Number one, back in the 1960s, they used the nuclear war scenario.
	That the Defense Department and the U.S.
	Government used to operate on was the Doomsday Scenario.
	Right.
	Where we'd all kick them loose.
	Yeah.
	And, you know, blast the heck out of both countries.
	And those few people who had fallout shelters would hunker down for two to four weeks.
	And then they'd come out and restart civilization after the gamma rays, the gamma radiation decayed.
	Okay.
	That is not the war scenario anymore.
	It's called protracted nuclear war, and the model is it could go on for two years.
	But... I have a very hard time believing that.
	Right.
	Well, I do too.
	I do too.
	I couldn't see two years.
	I think two days, maybe.
	Well, I could see two weeks.
	I could see two weeks of protracted war.
	I don't even think that long.
	Once they began to let fly, the escalation would be I could see, you know, they'd hit several strategic locations, for example, or cities, or whatever, and we would respond, and then they would let it all fly, and then we'd let it all fly, and I think it would be that fast.
	It would be... I mean, nuclear war is not like horseshoes, or maybe it is, in the sense of close counts.
	And in a way, the point is, it would escalate to a full, all-out thing pretty quickly.
	Well, I think it's In military strategy, it's pretty well established that in any nuclear war, your primary objective is to knock out your opponent's ability to mount a military retaliation.
	So that would be the primary thing.
	You know, they wouldn't really be concerned with harassing population centers as long as, you know, there doesn't have to be a strategic target right next to a population center.
	All right?
	But thereafter, military bases, silos, you know, sub bases, command and control facilities, the White House, you know, things like that.
	That's what they would be after.
	Now, if the United States suffered a decapitating first strike, which eliminated most of our military recalitory capability, then the next step would be uh... that the russians would communicate or the chinese would communicate with the existing remaining u.s.
	leadership and they will say okay we're gonna start out with uh... let's see with buffalo new york we are going to devastate buffalo new york if you do not surrender within the next thirty hours that we don't surrender they take up buffalo new york okay we are now going to take out houston I was going to let Buffalo go, but my God, Houston.
	All right, well, so you think it would be a slow and steady escalation like that.
	I don't think there'd be many of those.
	You know, once Buffalo went, the political pressure, frankly, I mean, it's a whole lot of bills, for God's sakes.
	We'd smash them.
	And then they'd smash us, and then there would be on the beach, and there might be a few subs running around out there for a while, and then people slowly dying in the southern hemispheres eventually, and then it'd be all over.
	But you need to realize there's a lot of disinformation out there from the unilateral disarmament groups that want to suggest that the planet would be sterilized by nuclear war, and that just is not the case.
	But it would do a pretty good job.
	Well, there are some very dirty weapons that could be used toward the end.
	Right.
	Well, basically speaking, from a conventional nuclear attack, if you can cover your head for 14 to 30 days, You have made it true.
	Well then, also there's this.
	Not only might they orbit nuclear weapons, anybody who's smart to fight a space-based defense would orbit nuclear weapons, number one.
	Number two, what about the prospect of some guy just coming across our border with backpack nukes, or several of them?
	Boom!
	Attack!
	Who even hit us?
	We wouldn't know.
	Eventually, we'd know.
	We'd, I'm sure, figure out where the materials came from, but that still wouldn't mean that somebody didn't buy it from the Russians or the Chinese or something or another.
	So we could be hit that way, or even more threatening in a way, biologicals.
	You set something loose, and Captain Tripp's time.
	And I agree a hundred percent.
	And if you read Sun Tzu's book, The Art of War, which is the main military textbook of both the Russians and Chinese, it's never a smart principle of warfare to aggressively, directly attack your enemy.
	And it would be preferable to have some surrogate come in with a backpack nuke, detonate it, and then you would come on and say, this is terrible!
	We're going to send a Russian medical evacuation team and a mobile hospital to help with this disaster.
	This is just terrible!
	We totally decry this event!
	But, as you say, a covert nuclear or biological terrorist act is much preferable, especially if you can do it through a third-party surrogate, that it can't be pinned back to you.
	Because you accomplish your objectives Without receiving direct responsibility for retaliation.
	So yes, and the US government is sorely concerned about the threat of biological terrorism in this country.
	And that kind of leads into another subject that I'd like to jump into real quick after we finish one more point.
	And that that is above and beyond the fact that we don't have civil defense, we don't have missile defense, we now have inferior nuclear strategic weapons to our Russian and Russian friends, but Russia and China did something that we never did.
	What?
	They developed and deployed road mobile ICBMs.
	Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles.
	We had the technology.
	We were talking about doing it.
	Well, we had the MX on a railroad, right?
	No.
	We do not.
	Well, I say we were planning that, though.
	We were planning on it.
	The beauty of the road mobile missile is that they're like cockroaches.
	They run all over the countryside.
	You can't target them.
	They're kind of like the submarine.
	They can hide under the ocean.
	So you never want to throw a punch at somebody if you know that he's got a pistol underneath every pillow in his house.
	Do you follow what I'm saying?
	Clearly.
	I still think that MAD is operative now, and that's where I think we disagree, Philip.
	I think that we have sufficient numbers of ICBMs, submarine-launched missiles, and God knows what else that we're not talking about, that war really is unthinkable.
	I really believe that.
	War, I think, is unthinkable.
	It would be the end.
	Well, one of the problems that we've got with our submarines also, above and beyond all the great things that the President, our executive leaders have done in our interest is that the vulnerability to spying has really compromised the stealth capabilities of our submarine fleet.
	The Walker Brothers and a few other of the spying cases gave technology over to the Russians, which really enhanced their ability to track our submarines.
	That's true.
	And so, little by little, this strategic deterrent is then getting chiseled away.
	And my concern is, is it's a lot like Pearl Harbor.
	You know, they said that those Japanese didn't have enough intelligence to fly military aircraft.
	You know, you got these really ignorant points of view that left the American people in la-la land.
	And we paid a price for it.
	And we're at A day in age where we don't have the buffer of a big ocean.
	We don't have a buffer of time.
	We've got a buffer of about three minutes before a sub-launch missile strikes down.
	Let me ask you a question.
	Sure.
	Let's go back to just prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor.
	If we had been living in the economic and information age then, that we are now, don't you think we would have been absolutely aware of what the Japanese were up to?
	Well, no.
	And the reason I say that is because look at the information age we're in today.
	Yes.
	And let's face it, we talked about the fact that we really have a corporately controlled government in this nation.
	Well, in a sense.
	But it's a natural thing for, you know, who we are.
	Right.
	Well, let's look at the big corporations and see what media outlets they own.
	You know, when you start looking at the mainstream media, we're not talking about open and free information like you get on the Art Bell Show, but... Yeah, but I'm major media.
	Make no mistake about it.
	No, I'm not arguing that.
	You're talking to... you're on a network right now that's on 500 radio stations nationwide, literally blanket coverage of the entire nation and well beyond.
	So, trust me, I'm major media.
	Great, but what I'm saying is, in Russia, The average American didn't hear anything about how our money was going down the rat hole over there, how we were financing the payrolls of Russian weapons scientists, how we were paying for the conversion of military weapons factories to consumer goods that never happened, how we were subsidizing their space program that they were using on rocket programs, and on and on and on, how we were cutting up their old submarines, and at the same
	uh... shipyards they're building new submarines how we paid to scrap their old ICBMs but that was just cutting up the rocket and they took the warhead and put it on their new topels they never scrapped the warhead it goes on and on and on and the average american didn't hear anything about this because we have a certain uh... we have a definite control But the opposite psychology, Phillip, is also worth considering, and that is that if we get too far ahead of them, if they see us getting too far ahead of them, either on the ground, or at sea, or in space, then there is a danger.
	There is a danger on that side as well.
	If we get too far ahead, and they've got nothing but antiques that may or may not work after a certain amount of time, And they see us in space with all kinds of heavy-duty stuff.
	Before we get too far ahead, they may decide to roll the dice.
	And, you know, I'm not arguing that.
	And ultimately, don't get me wrong, I'm not into the global divide-and-conquer game.
	I think the Russian people are just as good a people as the U.S., the American people.
	I think the Chinese people are good people.
	They're like us.
	They want life.
	They want the best for their children.
	They really do, you know.
	And it's not...
	People that make war.
	Ultimately, when we look at this situation and we look at other situations, we look at earth changes, we look at the plagues that are on the planet, I kind of look at it, it's ultimately what I would call a spiritual crisis.
	I know in my own life, when I was young and crazy and doing things, at one point in my Life came up and hit me over the head with a two-by-four.
	You know, and I think mankind is in the process of getting hit over the head with a two-by-four.
	Now we agree.
	You see, I think the threat that we're ultimately likely to face, and as I watch what's going on around me in the world right now, Philip, honestly, I think the threat is liable to be a global threat.
	It could come from elsewhere, or it could be right here on Earth.
	In other words, we're fighting for our own survival, not so much against the prospect of Russian or Chinese ICBMs, or even rogue nation ICBMs, but with what we're doing here on the planet right now.
	And with the weather changes that we've got going on, and other changes rapidly taking place in the world, that's the fight, that's the war that we're going to have, and we're all going to have it.
	Well, and that may be the good war, too, because if you look at disaster, when you look at hurricanes, you look at floods and earthquakes, and you look at the response that it triggers in people, people pull together.
	That's right.
	In ways that they would never pull together.
	They help people in ways that they would never help people.
	Want to worry about something, Phillip?
	Worry about NASA Ames, who wants to move Earth.
	Oh yeah, that's pretty wild.
	I mean, you talk about mad scientists, but that gets out there on the edge.
	I'm sure Greenpeace has a few words to say about that.
	I haven't had the input from Greenpeace on that one, but I'm sure they'd have a word or two.
	But I'm not a crystal ball reader.
	Don't get me wrong.
	I'm not saying something is going to happen.
	What I'm saying is like you.
	I'm looking at what's going on, and I'm looking at what people are up to, and there's people The evidence is pretty clear to me that they're gearing up to do something nasty.
	And everybody's asleep.
	Now, I'm not saying it's going to happen.
	Now, who's they?
	The Chinese are gearing up to do something nasty?
	The Russians?
	The Russians and Chinese.
	There's a global chess game going on that most Americans are totally asleep on.
	Right now, the Russians have formed an alliance with the Red Chinese.
	They have weaponized The Chinese with advanced technology.
	All right, Philip, hold it right there.
	We'll be right back at the bottom of the hour.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 14, 2001.
	A tribute to the late and great John M. Kennedy.
	The first performance of the song is a tribute to John M.
	Kennedy.
	The song is a tribute to John M. Kennedy.
	The premiere of Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Summer in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired June 14th, 2001.
	You know, I have no way of knowing if this is true or not, but I hope not.
	Mark in Austin, Texas claims there's an article at Yahoo.com saying that Russian cargo planes are going to pick up the U.S.
	spy plane in pieces and bring it back to the U.S.
	Now wait a minute, let me get this straight.
	It can't be true.
	It just can't.
	Our spy plane goes down in Chinese territory.
	No matter how you calculate it happened.
	Whether we hit them, they hit us, whatever.
	We went down in Chinese territory.
	They took that sucker apart piece by piece.
	You know they did.
	And they're probably done with it now and just want it to piece of junk, get it off their territory.
	And so are we honestly going to have... Could it be true that we're going to have Russian cargo planes Pick up our spy plane and bring it back to the U.S.
	after the Chinese have been done with it.
	Somehow I find that a little hard to believe.
	But just in case there really is a story on Yahoo, I couldn't get to the link.
	I tried to link it.
	Apparently it was expired.
	But I never heard that.
	We wouldn't dare do that.
	that what we wouldn't do that.
	Ha ha ha, it's true. Ha ha ha ha ha ha.
	It's true.
	The plane that went down in China, that's been sitting on the runway, beleaguered, taken apart, photographed, printed, copied, whatever, that airplane is due to be picked up by Russian cargo planes who will deliver it back to us.
	In pieces, I guess.
	All over the news tonight.
	ABC is now running.
	Can you believe that, Philip?
	Yeah, I saw the article myself.
	It's true.
	It's almost like the Chinese making the black berets for our military.
	No, it's more serious than that.
	My God.
	It crashes, it crash lands on Chinese territory.
	They take it apart, have their way with it, and then turn it over to the Russians who are going to bring it back to us.
	The world has changed, Philip.
	It certainly has.
	It has really changed.
	I mean, there was a day when Our ego, never, our national ego, never would have allowed our former and still possible one day enemy to go pick up our spy plane down in another communist country, oh god.
	Oh, things are strange, aren't they?
	They certainly are.
	Well, again, I say, and I really mean this, with emerging diseases, you know, these little things that can really get you, and the weather changes, and the earth changes, it looks to me as though our enemy, ultimately, if we continue the mad thing long enough, our enemy is going to come from within, and it's going to be something we're all battling for survival.
	That's what I think.
	I would tend to agree with you.
	I think that ultimately the enemy is within.
	I think that we have a planet full of humanity that is running around in a sort of synthetic identity and they're not finding what they're looking for in life and they're running into dead ends.
	I don't know, in my own life I ran into dead ends at a certain point.
	i had to stop and think you know am i going the wrong way and uh... even now philip in a way you have to stop and
	think are you going in the wrong way
	in other words uh... i can clearly see what your concerns are
	uh... have you considered the possibility that the threats that you're concerned about are perhaps now
	secondary Secondary to what's most likely to get us.
	I mean, if you consider in this world what's most likely to get us, there are physicists working on things that, if they push the button, that could get us.
	Somebody's going to create a damn black hole in a lab one of these days.
	uh... or any number or or these horrible diseases like uh... mad cow
	eventually will fix it so nobody can have a planet uh...
	hamburger on the planet anymore
	i mean it's just things are going to have pretty strange direction right now
	things they think they can figure out they don't have figured out at all
	foals dying in kentucky there are a lot
	they they they come up with several things latest i have is that i have a
	clue well i i would agree to you and
	in nuclear is not my only or my
	my pet beef and i think that i think that
	We've got NASA Ames ready to move the planet to avoid global warming.
	I think, you know, we could talk a whole show about the biological threat and the implications of that.
	Whether it's AIDS and the question of where did AIDS really come from or mad cow disease.
	Does it matter at this point?
	No it doesn't, but... Well, wherever it came from, whoever said it, obviously if they had an antidote they'd be using it by now.
	Maybe, maybe not.
	You know, when you look out there in the media and the establishment is obviously infatuated with population control.
	I would agree with that.
	Has not done so well in that category lately.
	In other words, here in the U.S., we now have the cocktail, right?
	And it prolongs life almost indefinitely.
	You've got to take a lot of drugs, but it's expensive.
	About twenty grand a year, but it prolongs life.
	But it makes a lot of money for the big corporations here.
	A lot of people in Africa die.
	A lot of people in Asia die.
	Right, and that kind of falls with kind of a racist eugenics policy.
	You could imagine that.
	I don't personally think that.
	Look, it's right in line with all of the other emerging things, like Mad Cow, for example.
	Do you believe that to be some sort of sponsored thing, or what do you think?
	Well, you know, I don't know per se, and Mad Cow, I've read some real interesting material over the last couple of months, but I think if we look at the history of some of the biological events that have occurred, some of them by accident, and some of them by absolute intent and we just look at the pattern like take the polio vaccine yes we ended up with a monkey virus in there and we were all assured that was good safe stuff and it was gonna you know it's really gonna help us out and now we're seeing cancer
	Due to monkey viruses.
	And then... Yeah, I was one of the volunteers.
	The original volunteers.
	I had sugar cubes.
	I gave sugar cubes at school when I was a child.
	And because my name is Arthur Bell, A, B, I was right at the front of the line.
	Well, I was toward the back of the line and they lined us up like cattle.
	And when it got up to my turn, I got this intuitive thing, I'm getting out of here.
	And it took two nurses and my parents to hold me down when they hit me with that needle.
	Somehow that figures.
	Well, what I mean is, you have been very Cold War-oriented in your thinking, and I know that you have written a great deal about building shelters and all the rest of it, but is your thinking now beginning to shift?
	As you look at the current world, it has changed.
	I mean, a lot of things are the same, in a sense, and the threat remains, but we have new Bigger threats, in a way.
	Well, I think the biological threat is just as big, if not bigger, than the nuclear threat.
	So do I. And I don't argue.
	And I'm really concerned that there's a population control agenda.
	That there's definite evidence that it's potentially there.
	You know, the World Health Organization has gotten caught on a couple of things.
	And one is, in the Philippines, they spiked The tetanus vaccine, they had this special program and it was only for women of childbearing age.
	Now, typically, who do you typically want to give tetanus shots to?
	It would be the men, the guys out there working, working in the manure and doing things like that.
	Right.
	They had a program that they focused strictly on children, women of childbearing age, and they did it not only in the Philippines, but they did it down in Latin America.
	All right?
	Uh, they didn't do this in Sweden, in the United States.
	Now, you must believe that something on this scale would be on a virtual world scale, that something like the World Health Organization or the UN or some international population control concerned group would do it.
	Well, nonetheless, what they did is they piggybacked this thing, I think it's called HHG, and what it caused, it caused women To abort spontaneously.
	And the Filipinos are the ones that figured it out.
	They got a batch.
	They started seeing this pattern of these women aborting.
	And they found that the vaccine had been contaminated with it.
	Now, you can say, well, this is an accident.
	This was just an accident.
	All right.
	But then we look at the smallpox vaccine in Central Africa, you know, and, you know, it's obvious that From a strategic economic standpoint, and you look at the growth rates in the North American continent, in Africa, and in Asia, there's definitely a strategic shift of power that occurs when you've got population booms there and you've got a declining birth rate here.
	You know, we're seeing very effective population control with AIDS.
	I mean, Africa is experiencing a significant and effective population control program.
	I know.
	But it's not... I'm not saying... I shouldn't agree with you in the sense that I'm not saying that the African nations have, in effect, agreed to allow this to happen.
	I'm not agreeing with that.
	No, I'm not saying they agreed to it.
	That is effectively going on.
	There's no question about that.
	The population is going seriously backwards in Africa, and it's because of AIDS.
	Correct.
	Period.
	That's true.
	And there was a third event, you know, relating to AIDS.
	You know, we always wonder how this thing spontaneously appeared around the planet, and I'm sure you've heard the stories about the New York Blood Bank and the hepatitis vaccine trials they did there with gay males.
	And they replicated that program in different cities around the United States, and instantly we had the appearance of AIDS.
	And it was in people that were in the same selection category of those that were put in that program.
	I mean, there's just too many patterns of this replicating itself that you have to start thinking, you know, what's going on here?
	Well, I have been thinking that for a long time, and I can't today tell you that I believe that... I know there was congressional testimony Phillip, about development of something that would compromise the human immune system and that that occurred before the emergence of AIDS.
	Correct.
	So they were certainly aware that something like that could be.
	Now, I don't know if that translates to somebody in a lab did develop it and it got out of control or not.
	I have no way of knowing, but I know that that testimony did occur.
	Right.
	But I think if we look at the The big picture, like we come back, there are a lot of threats out there and one thing I believe personally, whether it's earth changes, whether it's a nuclear threat, whether it's a biological threat, is I really believe that life gives us everything we need to ultimately deal with the crisis that could put on our doorstep.
	You know, we may need to get banged over the head to come to our senses and realize that maybe our egos don't Have what it takes.
	That it's got to come from maybe a higher source or a spiritual source.
	But ultimately, I really believe that it's a spiritual crisis overall that we're facing and that we really need to look within to find a solution.
	Well, with that I agree.
	And I think the next Pearl Harbor, instead of being bombed, smart or dumb, is more likely to be something we can't even see.
	Something very small.
	Something that spreads just like the flu, and just as fast, with far more devastating results.
	And we live in a pretty pampered society.
	I mean, we have these things, the Russians have them, and the Chinese have them, and probably scattered, ugly little countries possess them as well.
	The only thing they've got to figure out, of course, is how to set it loose without it affecting them.
	That's a very big problem.
	Well, I think the key there is it's a well-known fact that biological weapons give you the best bang for the buck.
	And it's the poor man's nukes.
	It's low-tech.
	It's cheap to make.
	And that's one reason that the US government is very concerned and gearing up for bioterrorism.
	I think if we look at the situation in the Middle East, which is Kind of the planetary no-win zone.
	A lot of that potential may pivot around, you know, what happens here in the next couple years.
	Sure.
	You've got to ask yourself if Hezbollah or any of the really nasty organizations over there, or somebody in the Bacaw Valley got hold of a little vial of something that would kill most people in Israel, would they use it?
	Well, sure they would.
	I mean, these are the same people sending in people with bombs on their backs strapped to their bellies and blowing up anything they can find, and as many people as they can find.
	So, would they use it?
	Oh, yes.
	Well, the kind of political situation over there is fairly complex, and I don't want to really pick sides in the conflict, but nonetheless, it's a can of worms.
	And I think if we look at the fact that... Well, would the Israelis, then, on the other hand, retaliate with the nukes they've got buried in the desert?
	Oh, yes.
	It's more than that, because the Israelis are smart.
	And they realize that their nuclear capabilities were stored in limestone caverns, and they weren't hardened facilities, and they're vulnerable to a first strike.
	And so they acquired three German diesel-electric submarines.
	Extremely high-tech and quiet.
	That's right.
	They've got them, I know.
	And they have sub-launch cruise missile capabilities.
	And you can bet they're nuclear-tipped.
	And what they do is they keep two of those subs out at all times, and the third one is rotating back into port.
	And you can see, you know, there's the sabre rattling is going on over there.
	In short, it's some miraculous, miraculous solution.
	They're headed for war.
	They're headed for war.
	I don't disagree with you at all.
	And if Iraq crosses Jordan to get involved, they're going to let the stuff fly.
	And then where is that going to put the United States?
	Where is that going to put Russia?
	And, you know, And obviously, we're not the only ones who have gone through this scenario and had this discussion.
	Now, if you were on the Bid Laden side, you know, I don't even know if Bid Laden exists.
	Sometimes I think he's a universal scapegoat, you know, that replaces the right-wing extremists in the United States, or maybe they're partners now, or I don't know.
	You know, you've got to have a scapegoat there for the public.
	But nonetheless, there are terrorist groups who do have biological capabilities.
	And obviously, if the U.S.
	comes in and backs up Israel in the event of a major conflict between the Arabs, this is going to polarize the Arab bloc against the United States.
	And at the least, We're going to feel the revenge at the gas pumps.
	I frankly don't think, and I'm just speaking on a guess, but I don't think the Israelis would need us, frankly.
	If push came to shove, and they used, if they had to, nuclear weapons, as you pointed out, they now have at sea as well, they wouldn't need us.
	I don't think that any Arab country right now is capable of even coming close to a MAD-type scenario.
	With the Israelis.
	There's just no contest.
	Well, yes and no, but you've got a situation now where Russia is forming alliances in the Middle East, alliances with Iran, and they've transferred the same sunburned missiles to Iran that they transferred to China.
	Well, listen, I won't disagree with you at all.
	You have written a book called No Such Thing as Doomsday.
	Even though that's more or less what we've talked about for the last two hours, right?
	Right.
	Your book is available where?
	You can go to our website at NoDoom, N-O-D-O-O-M dot com.
	And actually, it's a good, you know, no matter what you believe, Phillip's book is excellent to have around.
	I mean, if something did happen, this would be the manual, more or less, on how to survive.
	Right, Phillip?
	Correct.
	It covers everything from purifying water to long-term food storage to EMP protection to radiation shielding and, you know, and it's got a very extensive chapter on independent power systems and disaster communication.
	It just goes on and on and on and on.
	All right, brother.
	We've even got a chapter on disaster psychology.
	All right.
	Thank you very much.
	Okay, Art.
	It was a pleasure.
	Good luck and we'll do it again sometime.
	Take care, Philip.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	The night featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from June 14th, 2001.
	It's like magic.
	Oh, rolling and riding and slipping and sliding.
	It's magic.
	And you, and you'll soon decide, right?
	You should be, oh, higher and higher, baby!
	It's a living thing!
	It's a terrible thing to lose!
	It's a given thing!
	What a terrible thing to lose!
	The End Be it sight, sound, smell, touch, there's something inside that we need so much.
	The sight of the touch, or the scent of the sound, or the strength of an oak when it moves deep in the ground.
	The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
	Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing?
	To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing?
	To have all these things in our memories?
	And they use them to cover us Why, why does the soul take its place on this trip?
	Take the whole day Why, take a free ride
	Take the place of mercy It's heartbreak
	I've been holding this pain for years Worked so hard just to end my fears
	Had to end my life to go ahead But by now, by now I should have cried
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in the world.
	Listen, I have yet another answer from the not-so-amazing Randy.
	Tonight an encore presentation of Coaster Coast AM from June 14th, 2001.
	And we're about to go into open lines. Listen, I have yet another answer from the not-so-amazing Randy.
	So I guess he's got a few emails from y'all out there, and I will read you at least a portion of the latest in a
	moment.
	As you know...
	Okay.
	For a little while now, I've been back on Randy's case again.
	Because Randy has offered a million dollars to anybody who can prove the existence of... P.S.
	I prove the existence of the paranormal in any way.
	He will... He's got a million dollars up there.
	He says that he's ready to give to anybody who can prove it.
	And yet, invited on my program, he responds, for example, this way.
	I mean, all I did was say, Randy's chicken!
	And he responds, somebody wrote to him, Art Bell last Friday claimed that he has asked you numerous times to appear on his radio show and you have declined.
	Randy writes back, occasionally Bell gets something right, yes.
	He's begged me three or four times to appear and I told him plainly that I would not participate in his circus.
	He has no regard for the truth, pandering to the needs of the gullible instead.
	And he knows full well the truth behind the ridiculous claims made by his guests, dames in particular.
	He chooses to perpetuate those claims.
	My going on his show would accomplish nothing for me, and everything for him.
	He has control over what's said when I'm not there, and can simply repeat his lies again and again.
	One does not play another man's game when the other man makes up the rules and controls the gate, and he goes on.
	Hey, that's the swill they live by, says Randy.
	Every week I get email from people who tell me, hey, just listen in to see how silly the show is.
	I don't know, because I don't get it here.
	That's not something I'm going to help by participating in.
	Bell is playing a juvenile game.
	And I got over those things he said many years ago.
	Well, Randy, Randy, Randy.
	I'm playing a juvenile game.
	You're the one putting up the million dollars.
	What's that?
	That's not juvenile.
	And then you can't stand a challenge.
	Now my listeners know, Randy, they know whatever it is I do, when I have guests on the air, I'm fair to my guests.
	Always.
	I'm always fair, Randy.
	I don't do set-ups, and I don't go get people, and I don't do sweat interviews.
	Randy, this is your chance to come on in a fair forum with somebody who claims to be able to do what you have put up your juvenile million dollars to challenge.
	And so here we are, Randy.
	Open air waves.
	I'd let you say what you want to say.
	Ask any guest I've had on.
	I don't shut up guests.
	I let them go.
	Sometimes a little farther than they probably ought to go.
	And that would be the same for you, Randy.
	I wouldn't do that.
	So it seems to me it's a little juvenile to put up a million dollars and say, well, somebody who can... And I've got somebody.
	Or several somebodies.
	I've got lots of really good remote viewers, not just Ed Dames.
	Lots of good remote viewers.
	Randy...
	And, and I haven't lied about you, Randy.
	All I've said is, quack, quack, quack, quack, quack, quack.
	And I say again, quack, quack, quack, quack, quack.
	Chicken.
	Chicken, Randy.
	Chicken, chicken, chicken.
	Chicken.
	West of the Rockies.
	You would have been on the air.
	East of the Rockies.
	You're not a dial tone, so you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Going once, going twice.
	Gone.
	Wild card line.
	You're on the air.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello.
	Didn't a few years ago you have a program about aliens messing around with North Dakota?
	And, uh, silos, missile silos up there?
	Oh, yes, yes, of course.
	Yes, they, they, they, no, not aliens.
	Well, maybe aliens, but, uh, a craft that appeared over our silos and, uh, indeed shut down our ICBMs.
	That happened, ma'am.
	In Russia, in Russia the opposite.
	They actually began a countdown there with an object over their silos.
	Yes.
	Okay, well, I was wondering if you thought perhaps they might get involved.
	I mean, if a nuclear exchange did happen.
	They might.
	They could.
	Certainly, they have the technology that could shut it down.
	Yeah, but I wouldn't depend on it either, because their attitude could also be, well, I guess we could stop it, but, you know, maybe they want her.
	Maybe they want this planet.
	We are kind of a green oasis, if you look around a little bit.
	You don't see a lot of other Earths out there right now.
	We imagine them statistically and mathematically, but we don't know of them, do we?
	Earth-type planets.
	We don't know of them.
	Green and blue and lush, and ready for biological life.
	There aren't a lot of them out there right now that we are actually aware of.
	So we might become a nice prize, and if we decide to blow ourselves to smithereens, From their point of view, perhaps on their time scale, why a little radiation wouldn't be so bad?
	So, I wouldn't depend on anyone or anything to stop it if we begin it.
	Maybe, but I wouldn't depend on it.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	I guess you're not.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	Yes.
	Yeah, whiskey, sex, Oscar, bravo, bravo.
	That's me.
	Good evening to you.
	Yes, good evening.
	What can I do for you, sir?
	What have you heard any more about them developing abilities to detect our stealth aircraft?
	I've heard a whole bunch of shouting in the past about that.
	Well, I don't know.
	By them, I take it you mean the Russians, the Chinese?
	Right.
	I don't know.
	I heard that the B-2 bomber is not stealthy at all.
	It's supposed to be, but it didn't work out that way.
	Somehow it's quite well seen on radar.
	The F-117, no.
	You know, the F-117's been around for a while.
	I would imagine the Russians and the Chinese have probably figured out a way to detect that aircraft.
	But I don't know that for sure.
	I know that other countries, like Iraq, have not.
	And so they should really think hard before they do things, because they can't see us coming.
	What's to the Rockies?
	You're on the air.
	Hold on.
	I'm extinguishing my radio.
	Thank you.
	Hello, Art.
	This is Gary in Boulder, Colorado.
	Hello, Gary.
	How are you?
	Fine.
	By the way, the guest you had, the repeat on Monday, Dr. David Anderson.
	Extremely interesting fellow.
	Oh, yes.
	I had no idea that that kind of work was going on now.
	Are we paying for that?
	The taxpayers?
	Is that private?
	No, that's private.
	Okay.
	It would be great if you would stay in touch with him periodically.
	Oh, depend on it.
	With my interest in time travel?
	Very good.
	I wanted to ask you a question, or rather see if this is something you would consider.
	I've heard a lot of talk about, with the remote viewing, which is also fascinating, there seems to be a tremendous focus on the Antichrist and the false prophet and so on.
	Yes.
	People sense that he is close.
	Yes, I agree.
	What I would like to see is, can we have, Ed, or another remote viewer, focus on the Messiah himself?
	Um, Ed has done that as a concept and, uh, said that indeed, uh, the Messiah was real and did walk the Earth.
	Um, I'm sort of curious, sir, Randy.
	What do you think of this Randy thing?
	I mean, he's got the million dollars up, right?
	Right.
	Isn't he chicken if he won't come on the show?
	Do you ever see me treat guests unfairly?
	No, actually, Art, um, I think you treat them very fairly even when you disagree with them.
	You have a way of, uh, I would agree with you.
	it without uh... i really i really do try and so uh... this is actually a
	affair for my believe and he'd get a fair shake here so i i can only conclude
	are i would agree with you i i've seen him on the news several times and uh...
	he never gets in the room face to face with people when he disputes their claims under a parent for a controlled
	experiment and uh... to be a negotiation with him about what the control means and i
	have it on the show And if he won't do it, he's chicken!
	I agree with you, sir.
	All right.
	Thank you very much, and take care.
	Chicken!
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Art, this is Steve from Coos Bay, Oregon.
	Hello, Steve.
	AWRO, 620 AM on the dial.
	That's the way to do it.
	Thank you.
	Okay.
	I'm a little disappointed with your last guest.
	It seemed that he kind of made us look like we weren't going to be anything in comparison to China.
	Well, it was a potential war.
	Oh, listen.
	Well, as of now, that's dead wrong.
	I mean, the Chinese have a very limited capability and we'd blow them off the face of the earth.
	However, that doesn't rule out the possibility that after that the Russians might get involved and all kinds of nasty things could occur.
	Eventually, though, he's going to be right.
	China is moving economically and politically, but mostly economically, in a direction that will run right over us if we don't watch it.
	But I, from, you know, I've done a little research on this, and from what I've been reading, we've got stuff that people haven't even heard of called the X-22 and all sorts of, you know, these flying triangles everybody is seeing.
	I believe that that stuff belongs to us.
	I think militarily, right now, we'd squash them like a A bunch of ants.
	No question about that.
	But that's not what I'm worried about, sir.
	I'm worried about what China is becoming economically.
	And if there's not a war, they eventually will romp over us because the ability they have over there and the industrial revolution that's going on right now over there, You can't minimize it.
	If there's no war, they'll run over us economically.
	I agree.
	Corporate greed is the root to all evil.
	Yeah, corporate greed.
	But you know, our whole economy is based on, I'm not ashamed to say it, large corporations and business.
	That's what it's based on.
	And if there's not a war, they will ultimately beat us at our own game.
	I agree.
	I got one last thing.
	Can you, can you get somebody, I haven't heard for a while since you've been back, but can you get somebody, a guest, that will talk about some of these new weapons?
	No, I haven't heard anybody talk about them.
	And I know they're out there, nano, stuff like nanobots and all that type of stuff.
	Oh, I've talked a lot about that.
	I had a number of guests on nanotechnology, the last one talking a great deal about grey goo.
	Didn't you hear that?
	I guess I missed it.
	Do you know what Grey Goo is?
	No.
	Oh-ho-ho.
	Well, let me help you out.
	You're going to love this one.
	What you do is you get a little nanomachine, a little teeny-weeny nanomachine, and you simply set it loose, instructing it, at all costs and with all material available, to duplicate itself.
	That's all.
	You think the Chinese have anything like that?
	Wait a minute, let me finish.
	To duplicate itself, and what essentially will occur is, All material, biological, the cell phone you're holding, the road you're driving on, everything would be slowly, or not so slowly as it went on, turned into grey goo.
	Virtually nothing.
	Converted to nothing.
	Oh no!
	Oh yes!
	And I've asked a number of other very distinguished scientists about that, and they say, oh yes!
	You know, it's something we've thought of.
	All you do is turn a little machine loose, Instructing it with all available materials to duplicate itself.
	And slowly spreading out from a center and moving in all directions equally quickly.
	Given available materials, and there would be everywhere, we would slowly see grey goo replacing all that is.
	Grass, forests, rainforests, cities, farmlands, cows, people.
	It would roll over everything.
	Wild card line, you're on the air.
	Hi Art, this is Don in Mount Vernon, Washington.
	Hi Don.
	Hey, did you get any response on that vortex cloud?
	Actually, yes, quite a bit, Don, and a number of people said that it was pretty weird.
	Yeah, Florida today, last November, had an article and they called them Hole Punch Cloud.
	Hole Punch Cloud, yes.
	I have the URL, I can send that to you if you like.
	The intriguing aspect of this Hole Punch Cloud that I had on the website, the photographs, was the contrail that quite obviously went directly into it.
	That's correct.
	Some sort of coincidence?
	I don't know.
	A whole bunch of my listeners took pictures of it coming from different angles and different towns.
	Yeah, you put that together with HAARP and what do you got?
	A storm over Houston?
	It could very well be.
	I appreciate the call, thank you.
	There are a lot of people saying the storm over Houston acted in an unnatural manner.
	Formed, moved, and progressed in a completely unnatural manner.
	Now, you have that on the one hand, and then on the other hand, you have people that are naturally suspicious about weather modification attempts.
	Possibly global warming.
	Now, global warming, in my opinion, is a.)
	real, b.)
	our government, I'm sure, realizes it.
	The weather changes are now being acknowledged even by our president.
	So, are they attempting to do something about it covertly?
	I'd say there's probably a pretty good chance, wouldn't you?
	I mean, what else do governments do?
	They observe what's going on, and they want to keep selling their oil!
	Not too many of you would dispute that, right?
	They want to keep selling their oil!
	And so, what are we going to do?
	Hmm, what are we going to do?
	The oil is causing this.
	At least it's exacerbating a trend.
	It certainly seems to be.
	Everybody's pretty well leveling out on almost agreeing on that one, save a few.
	So wouldn't they naturally begin to think about, hmm, what can we do and keep selling our oil?
	Hey, let's move the planet!
	The West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi, Art, Bob in Pocatello.
	Hi, Bob.
	Extinguish your radio, please.
	I just shut it off.
	Proceed.
	Yeah, I'm following up on your guest this evening, Mr. Hogue.
	We appreciate your objectivity and also your refusal to screen your callers.
	You couldn't say that about a lot of talk show hosts.
	On Mr. Hogue, I think perhaps one of the things in your discussion with him that ought to be more considered is what this means.
	is the united states position amongst the third world countries i mean the
	fact that we are unilateral disarming and uh...
	don't you feel that this this makes a uh... literally a uh...
	a less stable world uh...
	you know if we go too far with disarmament obviously it makes for a less
	stable world for us
	No question about it.
	But if we go the other way too far, it also makes for an unstable world.
	Well certainly, but surely there should be some semblance of balance between the East and the West, or it would look to me like Uh, the third world is out here, and of course, we would get an unaligned country.
	You're like the kid standing in front of the other kid, saying, go ahead, punch me in the belly.
	Yeah, that's about what it is, but you know, I mean, I think Mr. Hogan and you both covered a lot of the shortcomings.
	I mean, not only in the nuclear field, but biological fields, certainly we have a responsibility to stockpile interferon.
	And antiviral agents and also stockpile antibiotics for the biological agents at the same time.
	Do we also have a responsibility to stockpile viral agents?
	We don't.
	Well, I'm asking you, do we?
	In your opinion?
	Well, you know, under the Kissinger policy 30 years ago, we destroyed our biological and our viral stockpiles.
	Yeah, right.
	There's a big but there, but we always have the capacity to regenerate, but the question is the time element.
	You see, I think, sir, that things have so changed that it's not necessary to have canisters upon canisters, warehouses of canisters anymore.
	We live in a new age, and the biological threat now could be in a single test tube.
	Let me repeat that.
	The global biological threat could be in a single test tube.
	You don't need warehouses full of deliverable chemicals and biologicals.
	Because now we have the ability to genetically modify, let's say, a flu virus, for example, and turn it into something so horrible that the world would virtually might as well turn into grey goo.
	So I think times have changed, and with them the weapons have changed, but just one little test tube.
	Remember 12 Monkeys?
	Remember that movie?
	Well, I think it's true today.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 14, 2001.
	This is a presentation of the Coast to Coast AM concert.
	We have made it to the top, I gave you all I have to give, why did it have to stop?
	You know I'm telling me without a reason.
	I'm telling me without a reason.
	And lonely days, lonely nights.
	Where would I be without my woman?
	Good morning Mr. Sunshine, you're the sunshine in my life.
	You brighten up my day Come sit beside me
	In your way Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
	Lonely baby, lonely baby Well, we'll have to do without the power of war
	Lonely days, lonely days Lonely nights, lonely nights
	Well, we'll have to do without the power of war Lonely days, lonely days
	Lonely days, lonely nights Lonely nights, lonely nights
	Well, we'll have to do without the power of war Lonely days, lonely days
	Lonely days, lonely days You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from June 14, 2001
	I'm still thinking of the RS-5 plane.
	It appears to be true.
	I can't believe it.
	I really can't believe it.
	Our spy plane that went down in China, you know, maybe as a result of what they did, probably, as opposed to what we did, but I mean we had it over there near their territory, right?
	And so she goes down in China, she's examined in detail by the Chinese, and then we contract with the Russians To bring our plane back to us?
	The Russians to bring our plane back to us?
	Please.
	I just can't believe that I would have lived long enough to have seen this occur.
	The Russians bring back our plane.
	I just, I sort of don't believe it, but I recognize it is happening.
	Back now to open lines.
	Russians.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Good morning, Art.
	Hi.
	Hi, this is Ken in Washington, Como 1000.
	Yes, sir.
	I have two comments for you, if I could just for a second.
	Sure.
	The first on the spy plane.
	Yes.
	It does sound ridiculous, but you know what?
	We had the Russians one time observing us in a similar type reconnaissance plane.
	They're really not spy planes.
	They ran out low on fuel.
	We allowed them to land, we knew what they were doing and watching, we refueled them, and we sent them on their way.
	Same scenario over there in China, except we were well into international areas.
	They just didn't want to play.
	Well, that may be so.
	But it's on the ground, and they're going to disassemble it, and I don't know, What happened to our national pride that we would allow the Russians to cart it back for us?
	I don't know, there's just something wrong with that picture.
	Well, we're coming out of the Cold War thing now, believe it or not.
	Well, that's pretty far out.
	That's maybe a little too far out for my taste.
	I mean, it's bad enough the Chinese got to look it over and take it apart, but I mean, the Russians... Well, believe me, we've got a better relationship right now with the Russians than anybody imagines.
	I know, but it still isn't what you would call your wonderful, I-trust-you-with-my-daughter-next-door-neighbor, right?
	Right, exactly.
	Well, that was one point.
	The other one was Philip.
	Now, I know there's a lot of speculation, but in my opinion, he's really behind the curve on a lot of this stuff.
	It appears he is, like, outside, to put it plainly, a theater, a movie theater.
	He's telling people about the scenario, but he's never seen the movie or been inside, as a lot of Americans have not.
	If you look at our history, we've pulled ourselves out of a lot of gritty situations, and we are on top.
	I don't believe, like you said, there's no threat from another country.
	It'll be a backpacker.
	It'll be a biological threat or something, but nobody is going to push any buttons.
	I tend to agree with that.
	However, I would not want to see us disarm to the point that we invited the punch in the belly.
	There was Pearl Harbor, and we should never, ever, ever, ever forget it.
	No, and that's exactly right.
	And I think we were looking for a way to get into that one.
	I hate to say it.
	Well, that may be.
	It may be that a geopolitical situation at the time was such that an American president would say, we need to be in this and get it done.
	I understand that.
	Believe me, I understand that.
	But we should never... All things said, we are certainly in a different time.
	I think that's right.
	And in fact, during the interview, I asked Philip to consider that situation.
	We are in a very different time.
	And the threat is, probably, the main threat is a little different than it was.
	But that doesn't mean you let your conventional... Now, you see, we have, our nuclear weapons are essentially conventional weapons now.
	In a way, they are the convention.
	It's what we would use.
	You don't let your guard down to the point where you would get punched.
	Or invite the punch.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Yes, I was listening to this, was his name Phillip Hogue?
	Yes.
	I think in every case, it seems that you have people in the guise of presenting an alternative to the establishment military-industrial line, give the most extreme version of the spy mania, the ten-foot-tall enemy, the old snake oil that we've had throughout the Cold War, with even less pretext.
	Now, I wonder why you won't have somebody on from Covert Action Magazine, Covert Action Org, or Space for Peace.
	They've got a, you know, spaceforpeace.org, a website, people on who point out.
	Well, now, look.
	First of all, I would have them on, and will have them on.
	No, you don't.
	Put me in touch.
	I'll put them on.
	Well, space number four, they use the name... No, no, I'd like to quit giving URLs on the air.
	You don't have to do that.
	Get me somebody who would be a spokesperson and put me in touch.
	Well, I think I could give you some of the points that they make.
	Well, then do that.
	The point is that they're pointing out that all the things that Phil Pold was talking about, projecting these aggressive designs on the other side, Such as China, which, as you point out, 20 or 30 obsolete weapons.
	We've got about 7,000, not 2,000, as Phil Polk said.
	The most invulnerable, the most accurate and powerful in the world.
	Either way, it would be overwhelming.
	Yes, and this whole cover story that this ABM missile defense is defensive is nothing but that.
	A cover story put out by the people around this military industrial complex.
	I agree with you.
	Anything they would say, they'd get up there, that they would say is defensive, probably could be used defensively or offensively.
	And you and I both damn well know they know that and are planning for that.
	One of their quotes is from the Vision for 2020, which was a commission chaired by Donald Rumsfeld.
	He says, this commission says, the globalization of the world economy will continue with a widening between haves and have-nots.
	Well, I don't fully disagree with that.
	and by controlling space of the earth below the united states will be able to
	keep those have not sublime so i think that if anything it's the united states that
	has to be deterred of the united states that has to be somehow
	counterbalance to prevent having stability in the world well i don't fully disagree
	with that i think you heard me tell him that there was as much a danger
	in going the other way uh... as the way he was suggesting we're going to uh... if
	we go overboard and we build up this big space thing
	then then there is a danger of the world sees us doing that a lot of people are
	going to think preemption so that's exactly where we're going with people
	like any of his wife on the board of lockheed martin and the uh... uh...
	head of the Lockheed Martin, the biggest military contractor in the world, writing the platform committee for the Republican Party that was even bragged about by Jackson, who was the Vice President of Corporate Strategy for Lockheed Martin.
	And when you've got people like that, and Rumsfeld, who was one of the lobbyists for the Star Wars boondoggle, we're moving exactly in that direction.
	And I think people ought to realize that the United States, throughout its history, has refused to renounce first strike.
	It has, behind back channels, threatened to use nuclear weapons in times of conflict with other countries.
	I'm not necessarily against that.
	Well, I'm saying if it happened on the other part of other countries, I think people would be very much against that.
	And I think it begins to show that people like the people you have on as guests again and again and again are peddling the same scare tactics that are actually funneling our magic treasure in the pockets of these war monsters.
	Sir, it's scary either way.
	If what you are, what you're laying out is no less frightening than what he laid out.
	Well, I think that what I'm laying out is exactly the opposite of anything we're hearing on this media that he says is controlled.
	The media he's talking about, like General Electric owning NBC as one of the biggest military contractors.
	You're not going to tell us this.
	But I'm not controlled.
	I mean, I'm letting you say what you want to say, and to some degree I'm agreeing with you.
	But I'm just saying that what you're describing, if it's true, is every damn bit as frightening and dangerous, perhaps, That's what he described.
	Well, I think you ought to have somebody on who represents that viewpoint, rather than Mr. Holt again and again and again.
	That's all I've heard on your program.
	Well, I have.
	I think it's just a version of the military-industrial propaganda that the media is peddling us.
	Well, I have you, and I don't fully disagree with you at all.
	In fact, President Eisenhower rightly told us, beware the military-industrial complex.
	He knew.
	And it's still true.
	It's a machine that rolls on and perpetuates itself with our tax dollars and could be every bit as dangerous to world peace and stability as the opposite, the old Cold War way, the old mad way.
	It could be as dangerous or even more dangerous.
	I have no problem having somebody on.
	Rust of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Good evening, Art.
	Good evening.
	My name is Gary.
	I'm from Seattle.
	I listen on Como.
	Yes, sir.
	Listen, I got one thing to say before I make another remark about the plane situation.
	Oh, yes.
	This is another little way China is using to rub this into our face.
	Pal asked them to let us bring it back on the U.S.
	plane, and they refused to do this.
	These giant Ilyushin transports are quite interesting.
	They land them here at Boeing Field.
	Oh, I've seen them.
	They're monstrous.
	Absolutely incredible.
	But I don't care, sir.
	It's Russia.
	It's a Russian plane, and it's Russians, and we ought to be able to get our own damn spy plane.
	Like I said, it's another way for China to rub our face in it one more time.
	You know, I think, to me, the danger that's going on now is just the whole world, but specifically the U.S., is a question of hubris, you know?
	This is sort of like what probably happened to Atlantis, if it existed.
	We probably had some weapons just as powerful as they had, maybe not psychically, but that's what took them down, supposedly, and that's what will take us down, is getting out of balance.
	The Mad Doctrine, at least it kept the world in balance.
	It did.
	It did.
	It's worked all this time.
	Everyone was equally terrified.
	You know, Rumsfeld right now scares me more than anyone.
	Just like that guy said, this new 2020 military scenario and him trying to control space.
	He's a very man out of the past, you know, and I don't trust anything he does.
	But I agree with you also.
	The danger to us right now is not military, I don't believe.
	I believe it's going to be ecological.
	And I just heard another report... And that one kind of creeps up on you.
	Yeah, I just heard another report about stuff In fact, you were talking about the Gobi Dust coming over where you are.
	Did you hear what caused that?
	I know the jet stream brought it over.
	Yeah, but Lester Brown and some of the people, they claim, her report that some of the people over in the West were warning China that if they didn't convert certain techniques of farming, they were going to fall behind and run out of food.
	Well, apparently they started sending farmers into their northwest territories and chopping up the land over there to try and farm it.
	And that's what caused all the dust to come over.
	And now we've got another report They found dust coming over across the whole Atlantic Ocean from the Sahara Desert.
	They've actually found, now that they know what to look for, some actual dunes from years ago.
	They know it comes over, and they're beginning to figure out the little particles and microbes come over on this stuff.
	And people in Miami are breathing it.
	You bet they do.
	You would not.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Seattle.
	Seattle.
	I don't know whether it hit you in Seattle.
	I think it did for a short time.
	Yeah, some of it.
	And then it moved south.
	But let me tell you something.
	When this Chinese crap got to us, It was so thick that it hurt to breathe.
	Your eyes hurt when you went outside.
	It was like fog.
	It was really that bad, and people around the country, I'm sure, that weren't hit by it just don't believe what I'm saying, but it really was that bad.
	Well, people should be paying attention, because in case they haven't heard, I'm sure you did, they're beginning to realize from their satellite reconnaissance, now this is happening more and more.
	They're seeing these floating clouds of pollution all around the world.
	That's correct.
	One more thing I'll quote to you.
	We had an article in our paper about it.
	This is, you know, Bush is kind of like the blind leading the blind on this climate stuff.
	We had an article here about the U.S.
	trailed Britain, both Britain and Japan, in research on climate for the last decade.
	And they quoted a guy here from NOAA.
	He said, this guy named Dr. Peter Tan, and he said, if something doesn't happen, we're done.
	Yes, I'm very aware.
	Thank you very much.
	Yes, he's absolutely right.
	quality record they can be trusted and and and national academy of sciences
	report they recommend we start a natural climate uh...
	production service yes uh... yes i'm very aware of thank you very much yes he's
	absolutely right now the report
	has recently suggested uh...
	the global warming is certainly real and by the hand of man uh... does have dissenters
	Contrary to what you might read, there are dissenters.
	People who signed on to the report, but did not sign on to only what was released to the press.
	In other words, there was only a portion of it released.
	Now, to be sure, The majority of scientists agree that it's real and by the hand of man, but not all agree with that, and I want you to be aware they don't.
	And I'm sure you're aware they don't.
	I hope you are.
	If not, become aware.
	Do a little reading.
	Nevertheless, the consensus clearly is that it's real.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Oh, Art.
	Good morning, Art.
	Good morning.
	Gee, that was quick.
	Didn't expect you to come on up.
	Everybody says that.
	Spooky stuff.
	Anyway, I'm so sorry I missed you on TV.
	I'll have to catch that pretty soon.
	Well, you know, you didn't miss that much.
	It's interesting to see another angle of Mr. Bill.
	I see.
	Well, you don't really, though, because when you're on TV, you're playing a part.
	The only place where you would have caught me, I did an hour on Larry King.
	Uh, there you would have caught the real me.
	I got that.
	If you're in one of these series and you're just, you're playing a part.
	I got that.
	You were wearing a black shirt, I believe.
	That's right.
	Yeah, I remember that.
	And you gave him a little radioactive thing.
	He was scared to touch it.
	Well, what I remember is I handed it to him and he put it in his pocket.
	Oh, no.
	I don't have any kids.
	And then I asked him, uh, you don't plan on having any more children, do you?
	And as we well know, he certainly did.
	Uh, so he whipped that little sucker out of his pocket so fast.
	Oh my God.
	Oh, well, anyway, what I was calling you about was, um, that it's sort of strange.
	I've called, this is like two times it's happened.
	I've called and talked to you and I brought up one thing.
	And then the same thing I brought up, Ed Deems came a week later and said the same thing I talked to you about, and then again I talked about something, Ed Deems talked about something again.
	Precognition.
	It is weird, so I know what he's going to talk about next time.
	What?
	He's going to bring up, it's sort of weird, I've had this weird ability since I've been in school, I'd be able to say things before the teachers, I don't know if everybody does that, but they actually scared me when I was a kid growing up.
	I'd say things that I'd never heard before.
	Alright, well if you know what Ed is going to bring up next, Let's have it.
	Okay.
	I brought up the environment and how bad the environment's messed up, and I was talking about specific details when I talked to you, and then he brought up the exact same details.
	And the next thing he's going to bring up is the environment, basically the beginning, the visual beginning of the end, when we start seeing the real noticeable difference of environment.
	And we know the weather's changing, obviously, but we'll be able to see things that are completely Unusual.
	One thing is that we know the ozone is getting so thin over the poles, it's melting the caps, obviously.
	And there will be areas in the sky where in the daytime you'll be able to see black spots, like almost seen right in the space.
	That will happen probably in a few years, but he'll talk about that.
	That would be really worrisome.
	Oh, now there's a new one!
	Now, if he talks about that, you get great respect from me.
	Black areas of the sky, as though you're looking through The atmosphere is depleted in some way, and you're able to look through and not get the diffraction, and so you have no blue sky, you have a black sky.
	Right.
	The thing is, our atmosphere reflects all the light, that's why we see blue.
	On other planets that don't have atmospheres, you see directly in the space.
	As we lose our atmosphere, parts of the Earth, you'll see black spots where you can see right through to space.
	And the main thing is that the first thing, the thing that created life on this planet was a long time ago.
	There's things called microbes in space.
	Space is full of microbial life forms.
	And that started life.
	It's very small and it started life on this planet.
	Now what's happening is we're losing our atmosphere and the same microbes that started life on this planet is now taking life from us.
	And it's mutating things on a very small level in bacteriums.
	That's why bacteria, we have bacteriums and All our food, the government has radiated all our food, as you know.
	They've been doing it for 10 years to keep these bacteria off our food so we don't die.
	But we're not doing it to our animals.
	That's why we have mad cow.
	They're eating food that's outside.
	It's covered with this new bacteria that's being mutated from bacteria from space coming in because of thinning of the ozone.
	And basically, there's a lot of other things, diseases, that will be mutated.
	Our water needs to be controlled, which hasn't been done yet.
	Well, this definitely sounds like Ed Dame's material.
	Yeah, he's going to bring that up.
	He hasn't touched on it yet because he's probably scared about it.
	Next communication he'll have with you will probably be through a wire or a fax.
	And he might not go on the air fully, but he will later.
	He'll start talking about how serious it is and how our government's been monitoring.
	And the thing he won't talk about is the spraying, which I wouldn't really want to go into either.
	But as you know, the space microbes, they feed off of metallic material such as aluminum.
	You mean like the stuff up at Mir?
	Right.
	That was going after titanium.
	Forget aluminum.
	It was eating titanium.
	Listen, listen.
	Show's over.
	Out of time.
	Tell everybody good night.
	Good night, world.
	From Art Bell.
	There you are.
	Good night, world.
	From Art Bell.
	All right.
	Tomorrow night, Dr. Steven Greer is going to be here.
	So it's going to be a combination of probably about two hours of Dr. Greer, who's going to update you on everything that happened in Washington.
	Boy, does he have a story to tell.
	And then we'll do open lines as well for a Friday night, Saturday morning.
	And that's how it stacks up at this hour.
	I'm Art Bell.

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