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June 14, 2001 - Art Bell

02:47:45

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 14th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest.
		I bid you all good evening and or good morning or afternoon, wherever you may be across the world, actually.
		From commercially the island of Guam in the West.
		Hello out there on the rock.
		How's life?
		Eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, where I know how life is.
		South into South America, north all the way to the Pole, and of course, worldwide on the internet.
		This is Post of Post AM and I'm R. Bell.
		It's great to be here.
		And let's see what's going on in the world.
		We're going to be open lives this first hour.
		Senate passes Education Bill.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gradual Middle East Test Fire Ceasefire.
		Test fire.
		It may be that too.
		Tested.
		We'll see.
		Let's see.
		EU Bush environmental policies wrong.
unidentified		This is from the Associated Press now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		President Bush sparred with EU officials Thursday as they accused him of pursuing environmentally wrong policies.
		The president who spurned a global warming treaty in 1997 downplayed their differences, said, We don't agree on the Kyoto Treaty, but we do agree that climate change is a serious issue.
		Hey, that's an advance.
		Now continuing the quote, and we must work together.
		Police arrested more than 200 as Bush met with European leaders at the midpoint of his first overseas trip.
		Now, we have been getting a very great deal of reaction to the idea, NASA Ames idea of moving Earth.
		The reaction to moving Earth has been rather heavy.
		Karen in Portland, Oregon, succinctly and shortly says, our government can't even design a workable missile defense system.
		How in the world do they or NASA think they're going to successfully move Earth into a different orbital position without creating some kind of catastrophic event?
		Talk about going to college and having the common sense educated right out of you.
		They may well be educated, but they're not very smart.
		They're going to kill us all.
		Thanks for your time, Karen.
		Or this.
		Mr. Bell, I was fascinated by your story in Wednesday's program about NASA and the possibility of moving the Earth.
		Personally, I'm not really for it.
		Especially when you mentioned the slightest error could basically wipe out all life forms on the face of the Earth.
		I was wondering, while you were discussing the subject, could that be what happened to Mars?
		Maybe the, in quotes, intelligent life there had the ability to travel to Earth like they are supposedly able to do now.
		Let's say they saw Earth and liked its environment with a warm climate, livable atmosphere, they probably said, let's try and move Mars closer to Earth so we can have a planet just like that one instead of our cold one.
		So they put a large group of Martians on a ship and went to Earth.
		You know, in the unlikely event that their planet should be wiped out, so their intelligent life tried in whatever way to move the planet.
		Instead of success, they were met with great failure.
		Mars was eliminated, all life gone, and only the Martians, now earthlings, us, remained.
		That would explain why we continue to see them today with UFO sightings.
		Think about it.
		Maybe the face on Mars is where the entire accident, maybe a comet, crashed into the planet.
		Just a thought.
		And then Tim writes the following.
		A senior White House official scoffed at NASA's plans to use asteroids to move Earth's orbit in order to deter global warming.
		Quote, the idea is simply ludicrous given the track record of NASA's recent escapade, said Derek D. Oilman.
		Mr. Oilman is the Bush administration's interim national science advisor.
		When asked if the administration had any proposals of its own, Mr. Oilman replied, why, of course we do.
		I'm pleased to announce that in response to the recent report on global warming, President Bush has now authorized me to implement his own plan to counter this environmental crisis.
		I would also like to point out that contrary to what the press has reported, Mr. Bush has been keenly aware of the problem and this plan ready for implementation months ago.
		This plan will not only forestall the dangerous warming of Earth, but will also address the terrible energy problems the state of California has recently experienced.
		I must tell you that as a scientist, I was stunned by the pure simplicity and elegance of Mr. Bush's idea.
		Although the President has no scientific training, his grasp of orbital dynamics and physics is truly astounding.
		This, then, is what our president proposes.
		On July 4th, 2001, every single able-bodied American man, woman, and child shall be gathered along the California border at precisely 9 a.m. Eastern Time, 5 p.m. or 5 a.m.
		Pacific.
		When the sun is at the farthest distance respective to the Earth, everyone shall jump up and down three times.
		The resulting displacement of mass at this point and at this time will push the Earth farther from the Sun, and the result will be a gentler, cooler planet.
		And as an added bonus, the force imparted to the San Andreas Fault will result in the state of California falling into the sea, thereby negating any further problems with providing it any energy whatsoever.
		Not to mention worrying about electoral votes in 04.
		The president, of course, regrets any inconvenience to the people of California and will expedite their tax rebates to ensure they receive them before July 3rd.
		As the President's Interim Science Advisor, I fully endorse his plan and applaud Mr. Bush's courage to make this hard decision for the good of the entire planet.
		Thank you all, and God bless America.
unidentified		Well, what the hell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is sent to me by Timothy, who says the veil art is thinning like my hair rapidly.
		Here's a story.
		From Nairobi, Kenya, a primary school in Kenya's eastern province was Thursday closed indefinitely following an alleged invasion by ghosts.
		The head teacher of a primary school in Kitui District, that's K-I-T-U-I District, James Mbu told Pant, that's the news service, that he closed the schools after parents withdrew their children following attacks by the alleged ghosts.
		He explained the pupils became possessed and fell down whenever the ghosts struck.
		During such incidences, he explained, boys complained of being strangled, while girls said they were being sexually harassed.
		A senior education officer in that district could not persuade the parents to keep their children at the school any longer.
		The parents demanded cleansing of the school before they could let the children go back.
		Meanwhile, some parents and teachers have accused a retired military officer living close to the school of being behind the invasion of so-called ghosts.
		That's what they've done, though.
unidentified		They've closed the school entirely.
unidentified		That's what they've done, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This from David.
		I live in eastern Tennessee, and Bigfoot is simply not at the top of everyone's subject list.
		Some folks here see UFOs once in a while, tell ghost stories, but Bigfoot is never talked about.
		I had never even heard of Bigfoot until I joined the army in 1980 in the fall of 79.
		My brother and I were driving home just about dusk.
		There was a light, drizzly rain coming down.
		We were on a dirt road and traveling at about 10 miles an hour.
		When all of a sudden this huge creature jumped off a six-foot bank just within our car lights, strolled across the road and into the woods.
		Needless to say, I stopped instantly, hair standing on end.
		As we discussed what we had seen, my brother informed me that he had seen them, in quotes, several times while out hunting.
		He said they were at least three of them, one of which was smaller than the other two.
		We figured that the younger one.
		And I asked if they made any sort of noise, and he mimicked the sounds as best he could.
		I asked if they had known of his presence.
		And he said that one turned and looked straight at him, and then turned and continued to eat berries with the rest of them, in quotes.
		I asked if he'd been afraid, and he said at first, but that past and curiosity took over.
		I've shared my experience with very few people, and would appreciate my last name not being used, because I don't want any publicity, or to be aggravated with folks pestering me all the time.
		But the creature I saw looked nothing like the pictures of Bigfoot that I've seen.
		This creature was hairy from its waist down to its feet, but from the waist up, it looked almost like skin, although it more closely resembled a snake skin, both in color and texture.
		It was almost a bronze color, with fine black lines, kind of like a rattlesnake.
		I've taken into account that it was raining, and dusky dark, so maybe my eyes were just playing tricks on me, but I want to know if what I was seeing was a Bigfoot, or something else.
		The only way to know that is to read this to you, and see what you have to say about it.
unidentified		Be right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, I'm not so sure about this next one, but I want to read it to you, because I would like some of you to check it out, and tell this gentleman if he's right or wrong.
		I'm working and keeping an eye on the GOES satellite webcams tonight, when I notice something a little odd.
		A new storm appears to be developing in the Gulf.
		The last four shots from the GOES 81R satellite show what looks like a small eye developing, close to the Yucatan Peninsula.
		As I looked at the sequence of frames, I realized what had caught my eye.
		this storm is rotating, albeit slowly, but definitely clockwise.
		And I'm trying to recall, is that the way it's supposed to happen, or is that all wrong?
		I'm trying to remember pictures of hurricanes, and it seemed to me that they were clockwise.
		Hurricanes should be clockwise, shouldn't they?
		Anyway, there you have it.
		You might take a look and see if anybody can confirm that.
		And then this is kind of interesting.
		It comes from a United Methodist minister.
		And I'd love to have this fellow on.
		His name is Jack.
		I won't give his last name unless he contacts me, and I have invited him to do so.
		He writes, I'm going to be on the way that I'm going to do so.
		I'm going to be on the way that I'm going to do so.
		religion.
		I've been exploring for several years, somewhat on the QT, in that such openness is somewhat frowned upon by the church.
		Anyway, I'm occasionally aware for brief periods in the middle of the night, and I listen to you on my walkman.
		Last night, I heard a portion in which you mentioned that two individuals, yes indeed, had said the Bible was a result of about 40 people divinely inspired.
		I'm not sure who they were since I didn't hear that program anyway.
		The truth is, the Bible is actually the result of maybe hundreds of people.
		It is, in most cases, his words, folks, collected snippets from the oral tradition or ancient pieces of writing, incomplete in and of themselves.
		Let's read that again.
		It is, in most cases, collected snippets from the oral tradition or ancient pieces of writing, incomplete in and of themselves.
		In addition, the Bible's contents are the same.
		depend on which version you may have.
		Various committees or councils made the decision as to which books, which are not books in the classic sense, were worthy of being included.
		As has often been said, a camel is a horse created by a committee.
		Not that the Bible is a camel, it's just that there are many sacred writings that were not included and many of which are completely lost.
		In other words, bottom line, the origin of the Bible was not a clean and pure process succinctly describable.
		It was somewhat haphazard in its process, occurring through many centuries.
		That fact does not necessarily make it undivine, in quotes.
		It merely puts it into the category of the human spiritual experience.
		Just thought you might be interested.
		Oh, yes, Jack.
		I'm interested indeed.
		In fact, I found it shocking the other night when both of our scholars involved in the debate agreed that about 40 people indeed, divinely inspired people, it was said, received the word that was then written, recorded, and translated so many times.
		In Kentucky, there are some heartbreaking pictures.
		This particular picture comes from Arthur B. Hancock, owner of the Stone Farm.
		And your heart would go out to these poor people with their foals dying.
		And I'm afraid the headline says, Kentucky breeders still aren't sure what caused the deadly syndrome.
		And one of the pictures is of a young boy lying down and hugging his dying foal.
		And I suppose these appeared probably in a, well, it says Time Staff Writer from Lexington.
		These are some pretty emotional pictures for sure.
		And if something will put a tear in your eye, it's a young fellow, you know, he must be, I don't know, eight or nine, ten maybe, lying down holding this poor dying foal.
		Well, they have their suspicions, and we've heard a lot of reports, and they've changed about what could be killing the foals back there, but they still don't know.
		Bottom line is, the real bottom line is, they don't know.
		In Salem, Oregon, no, correction, Salem, Ohio, I'm sorry, they're receiving mass shots against meningitis.
		I guess you've heard about that.
		With grimaces and brave looks, the first of up to 5,800 Ohio school students and teachers rolled up their sleeves and started to get the shots Friday in a mass inoculation against a meningitis-related outbreak that has killed two teenagers there.
		The outbreak has spread fear and confusion through this blue-collar area about 40 miles from Cleveland.
		Classes and graduations were canceled Friday as thousands of students and parents stood in line around vaccination centers set up at schools.
		And I think there's going to be more and more and more of this sort of thing.
		West Nile virus, the dangerous West Nile virus, probably is going to, they say now, spread well beyond the Northeast.
		As a matter of fact, CNN has been running a report suggesting that all 50 states have now got to be on the lookout for West Nile because it's common.
		In a report on the Western Hemisphere's first known outbreak of the mosquito-borne virus, researchers urged physicians to test aggressively their patients, report any suspected cases to public health officials so any new outbreaks can be controlled.
		Now that in itself, to me, is an interesting sentence.
		So any new outbreaks can be controlled.
		If they had controlled the outbreaks they had, it would not now be spreading.
		They had the fear that during the winter, the West Nile virus would sort of hibernate and then re-emerge as it has done.
		In the first outbreak in the New York City area in the summer of 99, at least 59 patients were hospitalized with West Nile infections.
	Seven died.
	Hundreds more had serious infections.
	People with diabetes or those 75 years of age or older were about five times more likely to die than others.
	Healthy people generally have mild flu-like symptoms or none at all when bitten by an infected mosquito.
	They estimate only one in 100 West Nile infections causes symptoms.
	But, you know, so they can quickly get it under control.
	Well, of course, we should be vigilant and let them know when it's in the area.
	But if they had the ability to get it under control, one would think we wouldn't be worried about its spread, eh?
	I got an interesting press release from Lycos, the search engine Lycos, today.
	And they have measured according to how many people, I guess, search for information on talk show hosts, the top 20 talk personalities based on internet searches.
	Leading the pack is Howard.
	Howard Stern, congratulations, Howard.
	Then Rush Limbaugh, number two, and I am number three.
	Followed by Dr. Loris Lesinger, Paul Harvey, Don and Mike, Opie and Anthony, Don Imus, Jim Rome, Tom Joyner, Mancow, G. Gordon Liddy, Larry King, Phil Henry, Tom Lykus, Joan Rivers, and so forth, on down the list.
	And I thought that was very nice, so thank you very much, Lycos.
	Kind of cool information to just get dropped out of the blue.
	At any rate, Keith found a related page on Lycos, so that's on the Website right now.
	All right, let's break here at the half hour.
	Then we'll do open lines directly ahead on Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Arch Bell somewhere in time on Pre-Year Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an oncore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 14th, 2001.
		Solo.
		Listening to the strangest stories.
		Wondering where it all went wrong.
		oh Hold on, hold on, hold on to what you got.
		Hold on, hold on, hold on to what you got I can dream of a meal tomorrow Thank you.
		Waking in the morning sun.
		Music.
		Out of the street, I was talking to a man.
		He said the songs were mine that I was there.
		You shouldn't worry about that, that ain't no crime.
		Cause if you get it wrong, you'll get it right next time.
		Next time.
		Next time.
		You need direction, yeah, you need a name.
		When you stand at the crossroads behind, we're looking.
		After a while, you get to recognize the sign.
		So if you get it wrong, you get it right next time.
		Next time.
		Next time.
		I'm a liar, yeah, liar, but a cheap.
		If I believe you wanna go around, I'm wondering if you don't beat.
		No reason waiting, don't you worry, don't you whine?
		Cause if you get it wrong, you'll get it right next time.
		Thank you.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from June 14th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got an idea.
		I wonder what happens if all of you all at once go to Lycos, the search engine, and type in the name Art Bell.
		Hey, maybe I could go from number three to number one, like that.
		so everybody got a light goes right now and search the name of art bell of the book uh...
		Really dumb, huh?
		We'll be back.
unidentified		We'll be back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For those of you to some degree in electronics, you might get a kick out of this.
		I have here at the house an uplink transmitter.
		It's a KU-band uplink transmitter, and it transmits a show, to satellite, from here, and then on, you know, the various steps to get to Big Bird to get to you at the radio station.
		This is the first hop, as it were.
		And earlier today, one of the pieces of equipment in the rack that transmits the signal to satellite was making a real racket.
		I mean, I was sure, I'm sure you've heard fans before where the bearings begin to go out, and it's kind of going like that.
		I can't really duplicate it for you.
		But making a really weird noise, like, boy, those bearings are on the way out.
		So I took a look, and I couldn't find any vents, as in where a fan would push air out.
		Immediate tip-off.
		Maybe there's no fan.
		So I call the network, they call the manufacturer, and they explain the problem.
		And the manufacturer says, oh, those would be capacitors.
unidentified		Oh, my God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Capacitors.
		If my capacitors in this thing are making this noise, then we're really about to have a catastrophic explosion of some sort.
		Not really, but I was blown away.
		Anyway, a new unit will be here in the morning.
		In the meantime, it seems to be holding up, but capacitors making that much noise, enough that it's annoying to be in the room to listen to.
		And it really sounded like a fan with the bearings going, and they tell me it's capacitors.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Hi, it's Laura from Miami.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Laura.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		That's good.
		I was just wondering if you're going to have any of these NASA guys on to interview who say they want to move to Earth.
		Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, now, there is a pretty cool idea.
		I imagine my guess would be.
		Now, Jose is just a guess.
		I don't think they'd come on the air with me.
		I'd probably get Randy on first.
unidentified		Oh, probably.
		Oh, my gosh.
		Oh, and hey, could you tell me another thing?
		A couple of nights ago, you were playing that repeat of Randy and the bug zapper with the spirit trapped inside.
		Yes.
		What ever happened to him?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know is the answer.
		I have no idea.
		I have not done a follow-up to know.
unidentified		Oh, no.
unidentified		We don't know if Everett left.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I'm thinking back, and that was a long time ago, but you know what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think, if I remember correctly, we did a follow-up broadcast, and I think Everett did get released.
unidentified		Oh, well, that's good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Everett's off and flying somewhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I'm in the market for anybody else who has trapped any kind of spirit.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to admit that's kind of interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's like Ghostbusters, right?
unidentified		Right, right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what do you think of the idea of moving Earth to a cooler place?
unidentified		Not such a good idea.
unidentified		It may have tried to make our stay on our planet a lot longer, but then again, by trying to do that, they may have instantly killed us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes.
		Now, of course, when the sun eventually gets hot, it might be something worth trying billions of years in the future.
		But now, for global warming, boy, I just don't.
		Yeah.
unidentified		Not too bad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Appreciate your call, man.
unidentified		Oh, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you and take care.
		Not at the moment.
		We can take a lot of global warming until we decide to move the Earth.
		Can you imagine that the moon would be stripped away from the Earth?
		Now, that would have pretty dire consequences.
		If you strip our moon away, aside from the fact that we're going to go tumbling off into space to our new location, whatever that is, to lose the moon, that would probably have very serious consequences here on Earth.
		Very, very serious.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
unidentified		This is No Lift in San Antonio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Had some information for you on the hurricanes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		In this part of the world, they spin counterclockwise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Counterclockwise.
unidentified		Counterclockwise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then if, really?
		So then if a hurricane, which it still would be, down off the Yucatan, was going the other way, that would be, or is it counterclockwise?
		What did he say counterclockwise?
		I can't even remember now, which did he say?
		Let's see.
		Clockwise.
		He said clockwise.
		So if this storm really is rotating clockwise, it's going the wrong way.
unidentified		That would be unusual.
		Now, on the direct other side of the world, they would go clockwise.
		Yeah, I know, but this is not the other side of the world.
		That'd be really unusual.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe some people will take a look then.
unidentified		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A little eye developing, going the wrong way.
		All right, sir, I appreciate it.
		Sure, thank you thank you.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Dan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Dan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Idaho Falls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Let's talk about moving the Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		First of all, the Earth and the Moon are a two-body system.
unidentified		run your comments up and down north-south directly between them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that why we have Because of the moon?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, see, the people at NASA Ames.
unidentified		Keep everything stable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but the people who are at NASA Ames say that their scheme to move the Earth would mean, in all likelihood, I could read you the quote here.
		Let's see.
		The plan has one or two worrying aspects.
		Let's see here.
		Oh, yeah, here it is.
		There is also the vexed question of the moon.
		As the current issue of Scientific American points out, if Earth was pushed out of its current position, it's most likely the moon would be stripped away from the Earth.
unidentified		You have to do it just right.
unidentified		You have to run it directly between the moon and the Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but they're already saying that.
unidentified		Otherwise, you get it unstability.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but they're already saying, sir, that if they don't do it just right, the consequence is everything dies down to a microbiological level.
john in ohio ▲ ● ▼		True.
unidentified		You bust up Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bust up Earth.
unidentified		Yeah.
		You also have to melt the comet before you go past Earth.
		Otherwise, it's going to be thrown all kinds of rocks and stuff.
		It has to be a little bit of a church.
		No.
		Don't you?
		You don't get rid of the gravity.
		The gravity of the first one, the 2,642-mile comet, is 149th of Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you really think this is a good idea?
unidentified		We've got to do it.
unidentified		The sun is going to get 2-3% brighter within a year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you think so, huh?
unidentified		No, I've been notified.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		you've been notified if he there was a Well, it comes through God.
unidentified		See, I'm God's messenger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So.
		Messenger 666.
		What about 666?
unidentified		I am Messenger 666.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, but that's the Antichrist guy's number.
unidentified		No, the Bible doesn't say that.
		Well, it says the number of people.
		The Bible just says I have the same number as what's going to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the mark of the beast.
unidentified		Well, I have the same number as what's going to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you the beastie?
unidentified		No, not really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If that is your number, then you are.
unidentified		No.
		The Bible doesn't say that.
		It just says.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't expect you to admit it.
unidentified		Well, I'm the messenger boy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The messenger boy.
unidentified		I've been taking my information from the crop circles and giving it to the U.S. government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Messenger 666.
		Right?
		That's what we'll call you.
		All right, thanks.
		Yeah, I remember him now.
		He's the guy who has decided and has received messages from God via the crop circles about what's going to happen.
		First time caller line, you are on the air.
		Good evening.
unidentified		Hey, this is Red listening to you on screaming audio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is your first name again?
unidentified		Red.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Red, okay.
unidentified		Yeah, Red.
		Cool.
		So, I am wondering about your Ouija board experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can wonder all you want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't talk about it.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sorry.
		You're going to have to do better.
		That's one thing, the only thing I think in all these years I will not talk about.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Still.
unidentified		Well, will you do your demon voice for me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really reserve that for awfully special occasions, sir.
		There has to be some really important reason to do it.
		Now, the last caller I had, I'm sure you heard him, right?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I might have used it for him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, what the hell.
unidentified		It's me.
		What do you want?
		What do you want?
		What the hell are you taking up my hair time with this stuff for?
		You told me what you want, I'd be off with you.
		Well, I was thinking about the Hopi elders.
		Hopi what?
		Hopi elders?
		Yes.
		Uh, the Hopi elders were pretty benevolent people, but, you know.
		I was thinking maybe not all the Hopi people could be bad.
		If Hopies were criminals and they went to jail, would they be putting a Hopi pokey?
		Wow, but if I'm happy, I can get some more to eat tonight.
		Goodbye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi, Art.
		This is Bill in West Hartford, Connecticut.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Bill.
unidentified		I'd like to talk about the Bible code, please.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about it, Bill?
unidentified		like to play devil's advocate or maybe tongue-in-cheek i like to play i guess atheist advocate you could say uh...
unidentified		my swing Well, I said it in a silly way, but nevertheless.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know, but you nevertheless said it, Bill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't want to know that you're an atheist.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't care.
unidentified		I won't say it again, but let me get to my point.
		How can the two guests that you had on the other night about the Bible code honestly believe without any data that the Bible was inspired, quote-unquote, by God?
		In other words, neither of them were there 2,000 years ago or 4,000 years ago to see someone say, oh, oh, I feel inspired.
		I have to write this.
		It's coming from God.
		I must write this.
		No one was there.
		They weren't there.
		How can they believe it with just blind faith?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in essence, ask the very same question, Bill, but hearing you ask it almost gives me faith.
unidentified		I don't understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		There's just something about you, Bill.
		When you say it, it makes me want to believe.
unidentified		Well, I wish you were an atheist like myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Goodbye.
		I'm not an atheist.
		I'm agnostic.
		Leaning toward believing.
		Actually, I do believe in a creative force.
		Something made all of this.
		Don't you kid yourself.
		Something made all of this.
		Yes, I believe that.
		We don't even have good guesses from our scientists about how all of this was created.
		Not even a good guess.
		You talk to them about anything after the Big Bang and they go, mm-hmm.
		West for the Rockies?
		You're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, this Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		This is Chris from San Diego, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what's going on down there?
unidentified		Oh, not much as fun and fun.
		I got an idea of how to spot the shadow people.
		Get a strobe light type deal and put a gauge on it to where you can adjust the frequency of the light.
		And I think maybe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are several people already way ahead of you who have written extensive emails and faxes to us about exactly that, that the frame rate or the strobe rate adjusted properly will indeed cause you to begin to see these people or B, have an epileptic fit.
unidentified		Yeah, I bet.
		Well, I haven't heard anybody really talk about that, but I kind of figured there might be some people out there thinking about that.
		But I just thought I'd drop that to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate it being dropped.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Thanks, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
unidentified		Bye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are on the air.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
		Hey there.
		This is Jim.
		I'm calling from a cell phone out in New Mexico.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In a big truck, right?
unidentified		In a big truck.
		Okay.
		How about a sound?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You sound actually very, very good.
unidentified		I know you want to throw these things out.
		I know.
		But Art, have you ever thought about having on David J. Smith?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, because I don't know who he is.
unidentified		Of Newswatch Magazine out of Waxahatchee, Texas.
unidentified		There's a lot of conspiracy theory as far as the government, the New World Order.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, the New World Order.
unidentified		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Communism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Communism?
unidentified		Yes.
		As it has to do with the Bible and modern-day prophecy.
		Right.
		You might want to look him up sometime.
		I give you his website, but I know you don't like websites.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, not on the air, but go ahead and send it to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I will consider almost anybody.
unidentified		I really enjoyed your episode there with Bob Larson that night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that was something, wasn't it?
unidentified		Wasn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll have him back on again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Give me one big toot on the horn there.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		Oh, man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen to that thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many pounds are you going down the road?
unidentified		Oh, we're looking at 80,000.
		80,000 pounds.
		80,000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		80,000 pounds.
		Wow.
		Now that's big.
		As I prepare to consider taking off in my RV, my measly little maybe 30,000 pounds.
		But I'll tell you to me, who mostly spends his time driving at Geometro, that is our primary car here at Geometro, the concept of converting from that to a 30,000-pound vehicle is an interesting transition.
		And it takes a little shifting of the mind to avoid catastrophic occurrences.
		You have to think and act in a very different way when you have something 40 feet long.
		To me, see, that's long.
		These guys, they laugh at 40 feet.
		That's nothing to a trucker.
		But to me, going from a little geo to 40 feet, that's west of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		A little hardball.
unidentified		Yes, I have just a little update on...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why don't you speak up like a normal human?
unidentified		Just a little update on the weather.
		That's good.
		Okay, just a little update on the weather in the states right now.
		There's nothing really severe going on, according to the NOL folks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's just not true.
		Not true.
		The Plain States, sir, yesterday had a rash of tornadoes.
		Nebraska have tornadoes and again the weather is Well, I'm just looking at what's going on right now.
unidentified		There's like severe thunderstorm warnings in effect for Texas, a thunderstorm, another one in Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you are.
unidentified		Oklahoma.
		Yep.
		Yeah.
		I took a look at the satellite imagery and the email that you had about that fellow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Clockwise storm, yes.
unidentified		Yeah, that was a little bit odd.
unidentified		Normally it's the other way around, but like you're that shouldn't happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I suppose there could be a set of systems situated in such a way that it would cause a storm like that to begin rotating in the wrong direction.
		Of course, we should keep an eye on it.
		It seems to me if it keeps going in the wrong direction, then we have a number of questions we should be immediately asking.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, Archie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		I turn my radio off.
unidentified		Yes, how are you doing tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just fine.
unidentified		I just want to let you know that I listen to your show while I'm playing massively multiplayer online games.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you can chew gum and walk at the same time?
unidentified		well i well it's it's it's what people and did that though actually there's a Yes.
unidentified		And there's a lawyer from Lincoln named.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, don't give me his name.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
		He's representing the families suing the game companies that I play.
		I play their games while I'm listening to you.
		It's a lot of killing going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		well i was with video games are for its work well that's what i think that i think i think that you have Instead, you do it on your TV.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Why do people watch a championship boxing match?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For blood.
unidentified		Exactly.
unidentified		I don't make any, you know, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So this lawyer, without naming the lawyer or the video game company, because I don't want to hear about either one.
		Right.
		What is he suing them for?
		What's the claim?
unidentified		Interestingly enough, it is very similar to...
		It's very similar to like the Joe Camel advertising where they claim that they're being affected,
		but they are targeting children, specifically teenagers, and that the companies that produce these games in the same way that cigarette companies producing cigarettes know that, no, and then that there's supposedly internal documents.
		They know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think it's ridiculous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, I'm out of time because I'm at the top of the error, but I've got to tell you, I think it's stupid.
unidentified		I think it is too.
		I think, I tell you what, keep it going on.
		I listen to you every night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, look at television.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then the same case could be made against producers of TV shows where they have murders and mysteries and stuff, right?
unidentified		Absolutely.
unidentified		And I think it's a relief.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're getting ready to legislate life out of existence, sir.
		Thank you for the call.
		I got to go.
		Take care.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bye.
unidentified		Bye.
		You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from June 14th, 2001.
		I have been on the care of what I am.
		It's all pleasing to me now.
		The heart is on fire.
		The heart is on fire.
		I've had nothing but bad luck since the day I saw the cat in the door.
		So I came and knew you, sweet lady.
		So when you missed it, go call Crystal Ball on the table.
		Show them my future, the past.
		The same cat with them evil eyes.
		And I knew it was a spell she cast.
		She's just a devil woman with evil on her mind.
		Beware the devil woman, she's gonna get you.
		She's just a devil woman with evil on her mind.
		Beware the devil woman, she's gonna get you from behind.
		Beware the devil woman, she's gonna get you.
		You're feeling on your heart.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bells somewhere in time.
		Tonight's program originally aired June 14th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, somebody sent me a little sign in the mail that I really liked, and so I held it up for my webcam and I'll leave it there for a little while.
		It's kind of a cool sign.
		I think it...
		It's about vegetarians.
		That's all I'll tell you.
		It's on my webcam.
		I'll leave it there for a little while.
		All right, coming up in a moment, Philip Hogue, who is author of a book called No Such Thing as Doomsday.
		Of course, he may not have heard about NASA Ames' idea.
		How to prepare for earth changes, power outages, war, and other threats.
		Well, that's timely, isn't it?
		Always, I suppose, in mankind.
		Always.
		Think about it.
		Earth changes, power outages, war, and other threats.
		Philip's message is not doom and gloom, he says, but practical, experienced, how-to information.
		His book, No Such Thing as Doomsday, shows people how to turn their concern into constructive action.
		Mr. Hoag is an expert in the field of disaster preparedness.
		Philip is also heavily involved in research.
		He's been studying Russian and Chinese military activity and the U.S. defense issues related to them for the past 12 years.
		Philip does interviews on radio talk shows around the nation, including a number of previous appearances right here.
		He's been a featured speaker at preparedness shows held in different parts of the U.S. has written articles that have appeared in American Survival Guide and the Preparedness Journal.
		Philip gives lectures, teaches classes, does consulting in areas of shelter building and general preparedness.
		Over the last 10 years, he's been involved in the design, organization, and construction of numerous disaster shelter projects.
		Philip lives in Montana on a small farm with his wife Arlene and their five children.
		So he must have a big shelter.
		Philip is involved in emergency services.
		He is an emergency medical tech, helps manage a local volunteer ambulance service that he began eight years ago.
		Philip also has an affiliate company, Yellowstone River Trading, that offers preparedness equipment and supplies to the public.
		in a moment the polls Well, welcome to the program once again, Philip Hogue.
		Hi, Philip.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		It's always a pleasure to be on your show, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Happy to have you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From Montana, right?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		From Montana.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		It snowed here about eight inches.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Say what?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've been suffering a drought here in Montana, but the last couple of days we got rain and snow, believe it or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I heard it snowed up in Colorado, too.
		Now, now, this is the middle of June, isn't it?
		Yes, it is.
unidentified		June 15th.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Shouldn't really be doing that, should it?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, in Montana, it's kind of funny.
		Every once in a while we get snow in July.
		But, no, it's been, you know, as we see all over the planet, we're having very unusual and extreme weather patterns.
		But we're very grateful here now because we got enough moisture to last us for the next month.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you see what happened to Houston?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I saw the, there were over 17 drownings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Talk about an under-reported national story.
		They weren't ready for this at all.
		Usually when we have a hurricane, Philip, you know, CNN will dispatch people to go stand in the eye and hang on a pole so we can watch them trying to get blown away, and they'll talk about it approaching and showing, they'll show pictures of people boarding up, you know, nailing boards on and all the rest of it, and or sandbagging, getting ready for flooding.
		You know, the usual that you see.
		But not with this storm.
		This storm began to happen as it was forecast.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I heard it was totally unexpected, and the storm seemed to go out and then come back in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It didn't seem to.
		It did.
		It did.
		and then it just stayed right over houston creating a catastrophic event but it's it's not the only thing that The only argument seems to be why?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that it's not only weather, but we're seeing other disasters.
unidentified		We're seeing wars.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		We're just seeing the quickening that you talk about, Art.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And I think that the average American person is so wrapped up in chasing prosperity and going to the shopping malls and watching sporting events on TV that quite a bit of this just kind of goes by right over their heads.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, I'm not big on the malls, but lay off on the sporting events.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you know, that's an important part of American life there.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I agree, and I think sporting is a great, great thing, especially for our young children.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, I take your meaning.
		Don't worry about it.
		I take your meaning.
		We are kind of lost, I suppose, in modern civilization, aren't we?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in fact, it was kind of interesting.
		You must have gone out and seen the new Pearl Harbor movie.
		Not yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We had a theater in Front, but it closed.
unidentified		I'm sorry, that's the truth.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		It sounds like it's about the size of Immigrant Montana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, we have one traffic light.
		Pearl Harbor.
		No, I haven't seen it.
		The critics sure took after it, though.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I don't read the critical reviews, but I was fairly impressed.
		There was some definite pertinent parallels to today's situation.
		It was interesting that at one point Roosevelt said that they're making weapons and we're making refrigerators.
		And I think it kind of typlified today's American mentality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're making weapons while we're making refrigerators.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, that was just prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Roosevelt said that?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But now they're making refrigerators, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		While we're putting up a new weapon system, anti-missile system, supposedly.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're talking about it, but it goes a little deeper than that.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		When we take, for instance, the situation with the Chinese, and we'll talk about it in detail, but they've basically built a weapons infrastructure based on the profits they've made from the most favored trading partner status.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure.
		We gave them the money.
		I'm sure that's right.
		There's a little something I don't get.
		President Bush is talking about building a fairly comprehensive anti-missile system, which really amounts to sort of a revival, or at least partially so, of SDI.
		And I asked this on the air, and you'd be the perfect guy to answer it.
		Who would you say we're building this defense system to protect against?
		Would you say it is China, which has a moderate to low capability to deliver a large number of nuclear warheads?
		They could deliver some.
		Or Russia, which still has capability but is in a political disastrous zone.
		Or who are we protecting against?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a very interesting question because I think the American people are kind of in the dark on this whole missile defense issue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am a little bit, because it was kind of my understanding, Philip, that it wouldn't be within our reach to protect against the numbers of weapons that, say, the old Soviet Union could muster or even Russia could today muster.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But against perhaps a limited attack like China would be capable of right now, we could probably build something without going broke.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, the main thing that they talk about in the U.S. proposal for missile defense is protecting us against, quote, rogue nations.
		And so the key here is we don't want to, or the political people in power don't want to affront the Russians, don't want to affront the Chinese that we're worried about, quote, Maybe Iran or maybe North Korea.
		But the reality is the Russians have their own missile defense system, and it's far superior to the one that we're developing.
		We're trying to develop a system that, in essence, is like trying to shoot down a bullet with another bullet in the air, where the Russians have developed a system where they actually use nuclear devices and they can detonate in the proximity of incoming missile and destroy it.
		And they have a multi-layered system completely in violation of the ABM Treaty.
		So it's kind of interesting, and actually I think it's kind of a trite issue at this point because the, I guess what I would call the Marxist caucus, congressional caucus, has dragged their feet so long and done everything within their power to scuttle the deployment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You really think they're Marxist?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that's pretty heavy.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, what's the old saying?
		You shall know them by their fruits.
		I mean, we could go in and talk about this quite a bit.
		It's a good subject for another show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, but let's talk about it for a second.
		I mean, really, that's a pretty heavy word.
		And if somebody is in opposition to the building of a missile system because they don't think it's practical, let's say, and because it'll cost so damn much money, and they just don't think it's practical, then I'm not sure that makes them a Marxist exactly.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		I'll agree with you on that basis, but let's look at the bigger picture of what I call the lowering of the alert status of the country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And let's put the pieces together, and then we'll get the big picture.
		Now, you take Mr. Clinton there, and he actually instituted a new policy where in the event that our surveillance satellites detect the launch of nuclear weapons from Russia or China, our previous defense posture was to launch immediately.
		Sure.
		Now, the new policy which Mr. Clinton instituted was that we would absorb a first strike before we would launch retaliation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's just stupid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, why would we absorb a first strike?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll give you his argument.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, come on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Other than the subs, we've got about, what, 25 or 30 minutes warning if they launch from their own hoon territory, but subs less warning.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		so but what do you mean we'd absorb a first strike what kind of idiotic Now, I'll give you the warp logic behind this.
		It's like, we're doing this as a show of good faith.
		what i'm not going to be half of what kind of good faith do you did there is Right, but you see, from the Clinton administration, the rationalization was we're going to take things off a hair trigger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then they were idiots.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not arguing that.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Now, you need to understand some of the logistics behind this decision and what the ramifications were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you have to, in order to relax your finger away from the trigger a little bit, why do you have to get stupid?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's like if you've got a guy running around your neighborhood with guns, you've decided if he pulls a gun on you, you're not going to draw your sidearm and defend yourself.
unidentified		You're going to absorb some bullets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's stupid.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but it gets deeper than that because, see, what happens when there's a launch?
		We've got surveillance satellites that can detect the infrared signature of a launch.
		Not only that, it can tell which silos have launched.
		So it knows which ones are empty.
		So when we fire the retaliation, before those missiles hit down, we're actually aiming at silos that have not fired.
		We're not wasting bullets.
		Okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have a lot of bullets.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Right.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		But now, if we're going to absorb the first strike, what they're targeting on a first strike is our hardened silos.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think for one second that if they ran in and said, President Bush, oh my God, they've launched.
		We see it massively coming from over the polls.
		And do you honestly think he's going to say, well, my predecessor, as you know, has established a policy of absorbing a first hit before we retaliate?
		Everybody wait.
		Come on, that's not going to happen.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, it goes a little deeper than that.
		I mean, I am not that critical of any more of Mr. Clinton than I am Mr. Bush.
		Because Mr. Bush, we're going to talk about some other things that happened during the Clinton administration, and he could have rescinded these things.
		But the point is, if we absorb the first strike, we will lose our ability to retaliate against hardened targets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll get our asses kicked.
		I mean, that's insane.
		Has the president changed that?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		No, no, he hasn't changed it at all.
		But what you need to realize, a lot of people say, well, you know, it isn't that bad because we've got our submarines.
		Now, wait a minute, folks.
		Most Americans don't realize that the weapons that we have on our missile submarines are not large weapons and they don't have the capability for taking out hardened targets.
		They're strictly for retaliation against population centers.
		They're a deterrent.
		So if we sit there and we absorb the first strike, they're taking out our ability to retaliate against their hardened missiles, silos, their command and control bunkers.
		We completely lose that capability.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you tell me roughly how many nuclear weapons we have prepared to deliver in one form or another, either from silos or from aircraft or from submarines?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many nuclear weapons do you guess that we have that we could deliver?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		I think we have approximately 2,500.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		2,500.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And Bush is talking about cutting that in half.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		You know, I don't have those exact figures in front of me, but it's pretty clear that the Russians presently have two to three times that amount minimum.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That doesn't seem fair.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's more that doesn't seem fair.
		Clinton also agreed to keep half of our missile submarines in port at any one time, which basically makes them sitting ducks for a first strike.
		And not only did he do that, Pearl Harbor, he did one other cute little thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, see, the whole idea of the submarines is they can hide under the oceans.
		And it's hard to track them and figure out where they are.
		And in the event that some enemy launches a first strike against the United States, they can lay low until things cool down, and then they could rise up close to the surface.
		And the subcommanders, in the event that they were separated from U.S. command because of a nuclear war, had the authorization to launch those missiles.
		Clinton took away from the subcommanders the unilateral right to launch those missiles.
		So the point is now, those subcommanders, if our command and control, our communication nodes are cut off, they have no capability to launch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you saying that there is some electronic means by which our submarines would not or would have to be authorized?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Something would have to go click, click, click before they could fire.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Russians always had that, didn't they?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		I really don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I had always heard that the Russian commanders never had independent ability to launch.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That it was all centralized.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		they can sell mit maybe that's I don't think that's the case with the Russian subcommanders.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		That may have been the case on the automated system that they have on their ground base within Russia.
		But I think your foreign units and your ships and submarines always had manual launch capabilities is my understanding.
		But anyhow, it doesn't end there, Art.
		They took our strategic bombers off alert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So standing down.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		We have no civil defense.
		The Russians have built a national civil defense network capable of housing 70% of the civilian population.
		That doesn't speak about what they've built for the military, for the leadership.
		Now, we can't be too critical of the Russians trying to shelter their elite and their leadership because the United States government, although it hasn't spent a nickel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would it be better, Philip, if everybody had shelters?
		Here in the U.S., we all had shelters, and in Russia, they all had shelters.
		Or would it be better if everybody on both sides had no shelters at all?
		Which scenario is likely to invite a war?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is what the Mad Doctrine was.
		Way back in the McNamara era, the Russians came up to us, we talked to the Russians, we said, we have got this idea, comrades, and it is we will eliminate nuclear war because you will agree not to build shelters for your civilian population, and we will agree the same thing, comrade.
		And then, therefore, you will never launch attack against us because we will obliterate your civilians.
		And you will never attack us, excuse me, and we will never attack you because you will obliterate our civilians.
		The only problem was, is they took technology that Oak Ridge Labs spent 12 years developing, civil defense technology, and as soon as the ink started drying on that treaty, they started building a national civil defense network for their civilians.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold it right there, Philip.
		We'll be right back.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 14, 2001.
		Now let it go.
		Seasons don't feel the reaper.
		No do the wind, the sun, and the rain.
		We can be like this.
		Come on, baby, don't feel the reaper.
		Baby, take my hand, don't feel the reverse.
		Baby, I'm gonna die.
		I'm a little bit of a baby, I'm your man.
		I'm a little bit of a baby, I'm your man.
		Riders on the storm, riders on the storm.
		Into this house we're born into this world we're throwing like a dog without a bone, and hacker out of love.
		Riders on the storm, there's a killer on the road, his brain is swerving like a toad.
		Take a long battery.
		Your distinguished art bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an oncore presentation of Coastal Coast AM from June 14th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pictures of Slim Pickens riding the big one down.
		Oh, my.
		Why are we talking about this?
		Well, if you talk to somebody like Dr. Michio Kaku, you may recall, Dr. Kaku said, the thing most likely to disqualify us from proceeding as a type 1 civilization will be the discovery and ultimately the use of Element 92 that he thinks most civilizations, the cosmos, don't make it through their discovery of Element 92.
unidentified		Girl, you've got to love your man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's why.
		Because it's still all there, folks.
		All those weapons.
		You think it could still end that way?
		That's what we're talking about.
		Yes, and so Philip Hogue is our guest.
		And Philip, I'm wondering, in your heart of hearts, Philip, forget everything else, and just go straight to your heart of hearts, how likely do you think it is that we will end up with a nuclear exchange?
		How likely?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, if something doesn't change drastically within the next five years, I see one of two alternatives.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Either we have a nuclear exchange or we surrender.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
		I say, "Hey, we either have a good thing." What are you talking about?
		What can happen in five years?
		Lay it out for me that would cause us to surrender.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've got a case of incrementalism here where slowly we disarm, slowly we become more and more vulnerable.
		And it's like if you've got a neighbor that, you know, you keep trying to appease him and you sell your guns and say, hey, look, I just sold my guns.
		We're going to be friends.
		And you say, I'm going to lend you money now.
		You know, we'll be friends.
		And he takes the money and he buys more guns.
		He buys more ammo.
		And one of these days, you know, he's either going to come over and there's going to be a real fight with you or you're going to say, hey, you can have the house.
		You can have the wife.
		You can have the bank account.
		Just let me be your servant.
		Let me be your slave and work for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you think that's where it could be headed, huh?
unidentified		Well, let's to whom would we surrender?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Chinese?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Russians?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it might be some international government organization, you know, the way Well, we just got kicked off the UN Human Rights Commission.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I heard that.
		How come we got kicked off the Human Rights Commission?
		Because of our death penalty or what?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		No, it's just a political, global political game, and the UN is becoming more and more hostile toward the United States.
		And a lot of people in other foreign countries are kind of tired of living in the shadow of the U.S. And they see another superpower is coming on the horizon.
		And so you're seeing a lot of third world countries.
		It's happening in Latin America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who's the new superpower?
unidentified		China?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		China.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		China is definitely positioning itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I really would tend to agree with that.
		China is going to be a superpower, and they are going to eventually overwhelm us.
		Unless something else happens, they will run over us like an elephant stepping on an ant.
		And if you've ever been to China, you know that.
		It's only a matter of time.
		And how much time is the question?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Time and technology and funds.
		And that's the same thing that happened previous to World War II.
		The Japanese didn't even have steel.
		They were coming over here with ships and picking up all of our scrap metal.
		It was U.S. investment, it was U.S. technology, and it was U.S. resources that made the Japanese war machine.
		And the same thing happened in China.
		We have shipped our prosperity there.
		We have shipped our jobs there.
		You've got Motorola, you've got Boeing, you've got all these major corporations that are downsizing in the U.S. that are increasing their operations in China.
unidentified		That's true.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And you know our jobs and our prosperity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, quite the opposite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We did not export jobs to Japan prior to World War II.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		I'm not saying that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is not quite that parallel.
		And the idea that I guess the apologists would suggest is operative here, and the difference here with China is that we will slowly change them, that they are economically going to go one way or the other.
		I mean, they're taking off now, and whether we help them or not, it'll only make a little difference in time in how fast they get going.
		And so we're taking the tack that if we get them economically involved with us, and we're all holding hands, nobody's going to want to blow each other up.
		That's the theory.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I agree.
		The U.S. leaders are falsely expecting to modify communist behavior.
		But in reality, we're leaving ourselves vulnerable as we ignore the long-term consequences.
		Now, the Chinese teach their people that as long as there are class differences between the oppressed and the oppressing, there can be no peace in the world.
		And they're talking about the United States.
		And, you know, they may have some valid points there when we look at the corporate makeup of the U.S. government and our kind of ruthless economic domination and raping of resources in a lot of third world countries.
		I mean, the average American person doesn't realize what the third world perspective of the United States is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're not loved.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		We're not loved, and for many, many times for very good reasons.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Because, let's face it, the foreign policy of the United States is the foreign policy of the large corporations here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty much true.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		It's pretty much dollars and cents.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But getting back to this I mean, we're capitalists without apology.
		And so far it's worked.
		I mean, look at the Soviet Union, right?
		Economically.
		If you go to Russia right now, it's pathetic.
		What's going on in Russia right now is sad and pathetic.
		And a once very proud communist dictatorship is now pathetically nothing.
		All they've got are nuclear weapons, and that's it.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And some pretty good ones.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, pretty good ones.
		I agree with you there, but I mean, everything else has gone to hell over there.
		They just have failed miserably.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		It's the communist archetype that you see also in North Korea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		The people can starve, but the high priority is the weapons.
		That's true.
		But anyhow, Art, jumping back to, we didn't quite finish up what we were talking about, about the MAD doctrine, the fact that, you know, it really is MAD.
		It's insane to think that you would allow your enemy to hold your civilian population as a hostage, as a nuclear hostage.
		And that's what we agreed to.
		And then they re-negged on the deal, and we never did anything to protect our civilian population.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Meaning they went ahead and they built shelters for as many as 70% of their people, and we have it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And, of course, you know, we've, the government of the United States has gone to great extents to, in the perpetuation of government program, to build facilities and regional FEMA command posts that are all hardened.
		You've got Mount Weather.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mount Weather.
		You know, I read this really cool article not long ago and put it up on my website about Mount Weather.
		What can you tell me about Mount Weather?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's part of the program for the perpetuation of government or the preservation of government.
		And they actually have a complete duplicate government which is always standing by and ready to move into action in the event that our existing government officials were killed by some surprise attack.
		and they actually have people who are referred to as mister president service president uh...
		they got represented is there from all the uh...
		department including
		I mean, who would pick Mr. President, Mr. Vice President, Mr. Speaker of the House, Mr. My understanding is they're already selected and it falls under the category of emergency powers and which steps outside of the arena of the Constitution and moves into more executive, direct executive rule and power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, Bill Gates would be president?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, whoever they've got in there that's sitting at that polished desk, he's not president now, but in the event that the president and the vice presidental succession is, you know, whoever's sitting in that chair is going to take over command and make decisions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, what must that be like?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, Mount Weather is gigantic, right?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's nothing compared to Yamatu Mountain.
		And I think we talked about this on previous shows, that even under Yelson, when they were bellyaching that Russia was so bankrupt and we had to bring this infusion of $200 billion into Russia, they were building Yamatu Mountain, which is in the Urals, and it's the largest underground complex in the world.
		They say it's as large as the area inside the Washington Beltway.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be big.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		That would be very big.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that's their emergency.
		As a matter of curiosity, Philip, with our best bunker-penetrating, gigantic megaton nukes, we couldn't destroy their mountain.
		They couldn't destroy ours?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		My understanding is they have the capability to take out Cheyenne Mountain.
		I don't know if they have the full capability to take out Mount Weather.
		I know the U.S. during the Persian Gulf War started developing deep penetrating weapons for taking out underground bunkers, but I don't think the United States has anything in its inventory to take out Yamato Mountain, is my understanding from people I've talked to.
		And basically the Russians have, based on their experience in World War II, and they have a completely different cultural mentality, they lost millions of people during World War II, they have decided that they could engage, wage, and survive with acceptable levels of loss nuclear war.
		And that's their military strategy.
unidentified		But that's not the end of the story.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Because, you know, every time we talk about missile defense, it goes back to the 70s.
		We had all the technology.
		We could have put it in place.
		As soon as we started talking in Congress about doing it, the Russians came over and said, this is going to escalate the arms race.
		It's like if you lived in a bad neighborhood and you started talking about buying some body armor, all right, because they're drive-by shootings, all right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And the neighbor came over and said, this is going to escalate tensions with me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're wearing body armor.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		That you're wearing body armor.
		I mean, you're not buying a shotgun.
		You're just wearing body armor.
		But, you know, this gets so twisted around.
		The Chinese and the Russians say, you know, you people are aggressors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the only thing I would say is the following.
		If you put a defensive shield in space, fine.
		It's body armor, as you point out.
		But once you've got that stuff up there, Philip, you know, and I know, that what is classified as defense could quickly be, I'm sure, utilized in some fashion for offense and or taking out the other side before they take you out.
		So it could be looked at, if you put yourself in their shoes, it could be looked at that way as not purely defensive, but as potentially offensive as well.
		And you and I both know that's probably right.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, there may be some truth to that, but let's look at our body armor and their body armor.
		We've got no body armor.
		The average American after the Gulf War, you know, sees the heroic footage of the Patriot anti-missile system, and they think, hey, we've got an anti-missile system.
		We've got those Patriot missiles.
		Sorry, folks, doesn't work that way.
		That's a theater missile defense system.
		It will not take out an incoming intercontinental ballistic missile.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I heard that mostly they missed anyway.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		And not only that, because we're trying to be such good guys and be in compliance with the anti-missile treaty, we actually took the Patriots' missile system and we tied one of its arms behind its back.
		We technically downgraded that system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Just to be because of the heavy disarmament camp in Washington and the fact that we had to be so compliant with these treaties that the Russians and Chinese were violating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I'm a realist and I realize we still live in a rough and tumble world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But somewhere between building a full space-based God knows what and doing nothing, there's got to be some sort of happy medium.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, the first key, if you don't want to be continually in an arms race, you've got to stop giving your advanced technology away to your enemies.
		And maybe this is the corporate key behind the situation.
		Maybe the people that really run the show want to keep the arms race going, want to keep the big corporations like...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you're saying don't give away your technology.
		Even Ronald Reagan recognized that we should have some sort of missile defense, right?
		Correct?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And he also seemed to recognize that that missile defense would be regarded by our enemies as an unacceptable advantage.
		And that's when I recall that he offered sharing some technology with the Soviets at that point for that reason.
		So they would not feel overwhelmed and feel the need while they're slipping backwards economically to use the nukes they have and just get it on while they still can.
		Isn't that about right?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Yes, basically.
		But see, the part you don't realize is that the Russians were in the process of deploying at that time their own space-based missile defense system.
		See, for being a bankrupt country, they have historically done many more space shots than the U.S. That's true.
		And nine out of ten of those space shots were military-oriented.
		They recognized a long time ago that he who dominates space will dominate the Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can bet on that.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Now, there's one other thing, too.
		Well, just to give you an idea, the Russians have a multi-layered missile defense system.
		They've kind of camouflaged it.
		Their ABMs, they've kind of written them off and represented them to the West as service-to-air missiles.
		But they've got a very effective multi-layered defense system of interceptors, and they use small nuclear devices, low-yield nuclear warheads, that are very effective because you only have to get close to take them out.
		And I know people who work for the Department of Defense who are working on our missile defense program, and every time they argue about the present course of the U.S. missile defense system and say, well, why don't we do it like the Russians, they get fired.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
		Why?
		If we're having a hard time hitting a BB with a BB, and so far we are, more tests fail than succeed.
		I think we had one success, sort of.
		But if we can't do that, then why not use the old shotgun approach?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Why not try and hit a BB with a hand grenade?
		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why not?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		The only thing I can figure when you look at some of the insanity of the other things that we see going on, that you say, how could anybody do that, is there are people behind the scenes that don't want it to see it happen, that are trying to run it into a dead end.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And I mean, that's my personal assessment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't you think it's possible we have some sort of secret technology that nobody knows about, but that they would be afraid to tackle?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know of some technology we have that is in violation of treaties.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		I can't see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, you can.
		What do we have that's in violation of the treaty?
		Are we orbiting nuclear weapons?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know that we're orbiting nuclear weapons.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		I know for a while, you know, I happen to know an installation where they put in a laser cannon that could take out anything for 40 miles around, which is in violation of a treaty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In space?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		No, this was on the ground.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the ground?
		Well, that wouldn't necessarily be a violation.
		putting it in space Well, the Russians do.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		It would be part of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you think they do?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, definitely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold on.
		We'll be right back.
		Philip Hoag is my guest.
		There's a comforting little feeling.
unidentified		You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from June 14, 2001.
		Coast AM from June 14, 2001.
		Coast AM from June 14, 2001.
		I can feel it coming in the air of the night, oh Lord.
		And I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh Lord.
		Can you feel it coming in the air of the night, oh Lord, oh Lord.
		Can you feel it coming in the air of the night, oh Lord.
		you were driving out of the hand You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from June 14th 2001 We're talking about good old Element 92 and the same old you know what though?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		there's really a couple of new things to think about the world of element 92 one of them we mentioned uh...
		at the very end of last hour and i want to inject that again a couple of other things will do another hour with uh...
		philip hove and then we'll do some open lines but there are a number of topics that i want to cover with him changes really since the days of the cold war and there have been a lot of changes they're all around us in the air and i think i think it's based just going into the uh...
		news break at the top of the hour uh...
		philip you said that you believe the russians are orbiting nuclear weapons now if that's true everything is more or less moot anyway and i don't know what good a space-based defense does you the surprise attack comes from orbit in other words if instead of and and i cdm launched from land or c which gives you as you pointed out earlier with those five satellites why we can
		we can see them launching and we can go oh my god and do whatever we're going to do but if it's orbiting already and all somebody does is deorbit a nuclear weapon it explodes instantaneously without any warning over U.S. cities.
unidentified		Boom!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just like that.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I wasn't referring to that, but I think that now that you bring it up, and I've really never had anybody talk about that or discuss it.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		It seems logical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They won't talk about it.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		They won't talk about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I'll talk about it.
		It's there.
		I mean, it would just happen.
		You would have multiple, you'd have MERV re-entering warheads that would instantly be on you.
		There would be no warning.
		There'd be no boost phase.
		There'd be no 25-minute flight.
		It would be kaboom.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		What I was referring to, and I agree with you, and I think that's really a brilliant observation.
		But what I was referring to is weapons in space, in satellites, that would be detonated as a prelude to a nuclear launch, and they would not have any direct effects down to the surface of the Earth.
		In other words, they wouldn't damage anything on the North American continent other than the electromagnetic pulse, which you being a good ham operator understand, and it would just devastate electronics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
		It absolutely would.
		Now, Jerry interjects this.
		I bet you have seen the latest made-for-Showtime movie, remake, of The Beach.
		Jerry says, look, if they launch all the nukes at once, and we do, it simply won't matter.
		None of this will matter.
		And it's a point.
		I mean, if we have a full nuclear exchange, it's over anyway.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, no.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And let me qualify and explain that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, please do.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Number one, back in the 1960s, the nuclear war scenario that the Defense Department and the U.S. government used to operate on was the doomsday scenario.
		Right.
		Where we'd all kick them loose and, you know, blast the heck out of both countries.
		And those few people who had fallout shelters would hunker down for two to four weeks.
		And then they'd come out and restart civilization after the gamma radiation decayed.
		Okay, but that is not the war scenario anymore.
		It's called protracted nuclear war.
		And the model is it could go on for two years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, I have a very hard time believing that.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Right, well, I do too.
		I do too.
		I couldn't see two years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think two days, maybe.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I could see two weeks.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		I could see two weeks of protracted war.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't even think that long.
		Once they began to let fly, the escalation would be I could see, you know, they'd hit several strategic locations, for example, or cities or whatever, and we would respond, and then they would let it all fly, and then we'd let it all fly.
		And I think it would be that fast.
		It would be, I mean, nuclear war is not like horseshoes, or maybe it is in the sense of close counts.
		And in a way, the point is, it would escalate to a full all-out thing pretty quickly.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it's in military strategy, it's pretty well established that in any nuclear war, your primary objective is to knock out your opponent's ability to mount a military retaliation.
		So that would be the primary thing.
		You know, they wouldn't really be concerned with harassing population centers as long as there doesn't have to be a strategic target right next to a population center.
		But they're after military bases, silos, sub-bases, command and control facilities, the White House, things like that.
		That's what they would be after.
		Now, if the United States suffered a decapitating first strike, which eliminated most of our military retaliatory capability, then the next step would be that the Russians would communicate, or the Chinese would communicate with the existing remaining U.S. leadership, and they would say, okay, we're going to start out with, let's see, with Buffalo, New York.
		We are going to devastate Buffalo, New York if you do not surrender within the next 30 hours.
		So we don't surrender.
		They take out Buffalo, New York.
		We say, okay, we are now going to take out Houston.
unidentified		Houston.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was going to let Buffalo go, but my God, Houston.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Arum?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Arums.
		Let's get to that quickly.
		All right.
		Well, so you think it would be a slow and steady escalation like that.
		I don't think there'd be many of those.
		You know, once Buffalo went, the political pressure, frankly, I mean, it's a home of the bills, for God's sakes.
		We'd smash them.
		And then they'd smash us.
		And then there would be on the beach.
		And there might be a few subs running around out there for a while.
		And then people slowly dying in the southern hemisphere eventually.
		And then it'd be all over.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		But you need to realize there's a lot of disinformation out there from the unilateral disarmament groups that want to suggest that the planet would be sterilized by nuclear war.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And that just is not the case.
unidentified		But it would do a pretty good job.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are some very dirty weapons that could be used toward the end.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Right.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, basically speaking, from a conventional nuclear attack, if you can cover your head for 14 to 30 days, you have made it through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, also there's this.
		Not only might they orbit nuclear weapons, anybody who's smart to fight a space-based defense would orbit nuclear weapons, number one.
		Number two, what about the prospect of some guy just coming across our border with backpack nukes, or several of them?
		Boom, attack.
		Who even hit us?
		We wouldn't know.
		Eventually we'd know.
		We'd, I'm sure, figure out where the materials came from, but that still wouldn't mean that somebody didn't buy it from the Russians or the Chinese or something or another.
		And so we could be hit that way.
		Or even more threatening, in a way, biologicals.
		You set something loose and Captain Tripp's time.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And I agree 100%.
		And if you read Sun Tzu's book, The Art of War, which is the main military textbook of both the Russians and Chinese, it's never a smart principle of warfare to aggressively directly attack your enemy.
		And it would be preferable to have some surrogate come in with a backpack new, detonate it, and then you would come on and say, this is terrible.
		We're going to send a Russian medical evacuation team and a mobile hospital to help with this disaster.
		This is just terrible.
		We totally decry this event.
		But as you say, a covert nuclear or biological terrorist act is much preferable, especially if you can do it through a third-party surrogate that it can't be pinned back to you.
		Because you accomplish your objectives without receiving direct responsibility for retaliation.
		So yes, and the U.S. government is sorely concerned about the threat of biological terrorism in this country.
		And that kind of leads into another subject that I'd like to jump into real quick after we finish one more point.
		And that is above and beyond the fact that we don't have civil defense, we don't have missile defense, we now have inferior nuclear strategic weapons to our Russian friends.
		But Russia and China did something that we never did.
		They developed and deployed road-mobile ICBMs, intercontinental ballistic missiles.
		We had the technology.
		We were talking about doing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we had the MX on a railroad, right?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		No.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		We do now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'd say we were planning that though.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		We were planning on it.
		The beauty of the road-mobile missile is that they're like cockroaches.
		They run all over the countryside.
		You can't target them.
		They're kind of like the submarine.
		They can hide under the ocean.
		So you never want to, you know, throw a punch at somebody if you know that he's got a pistol underneath every pillow in his house.
		Do you follow what I'm saying?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Clearly.
		See, I still think that MAD is operative now.
		And that's where I think we disagree, Philip.
		I think that we have sufficient numbers of ICBMs, submarine-launched missiles, and God knows what else that we're not talking about, that war really is unthinkable.
		I really believe that.
		War, I think, is unthinkable.
		It would be the end.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, one of the problems that we've got with our submarines also, above and beyond all the great things that the presidents, our executive leaders have done in our interest, is that the vulnerability to spying has really compromised the stealth capabilities of our submarine fleets.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		The Walker brothers and a few other of the spying cases gave technology over to the Russians, which really enhanced their ability to track our submarines.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure that's true.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And so, little by little, this strategic deterrent is then getting chiseled away.
		And my concern is, is: it's a lot like Pearl Harbor.
		You know, they said that those Japanese didn't have enough intelligence to fly military aircraft.
		You know, you got these really ignorant points of view that left the American people in la-la land.
		And we paid a price for it.
		And we're at a day and age where we don't have the buffer of a big ocean.
		We don't have a buffer of time.
		We've got a buffer of about three minutes before a sub-launch missile strikes down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you a question.
		Sure.
		Let's go back to just prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor.
		If we had been living in the economic and information age then that we are now, don't you think we would have been absolutely aware of what the Japanese were up to?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, no.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And the reason I say that is because look at the information age we're in today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And let's face it, we talked about the fact that we really have a corporately controlled government in this nation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in a sense, but it's a natural thing for who we are.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's look at the big corporations and see what media outlets they own.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		You know, when you start looking at the mainstream media, we're not talking about open and free information like you get on the Art Bell show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but I'm major media.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Make no mistake about it.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		I'm not arguing that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're talking to, you're on a network right now that's on 500 radio stations nationwide, literally blanket coverage of the entire nation and well beyond.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So trust me, I'm major media.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Great, but what I'm saying is in Russia, the average American didn't hear anything about how our money was going down the rat hole over there, how they were taking, how we were financing the payrolls of Russian weapons scientists, how we were paying for the conversion of military weapons factories to consumer goods that never happened,
		how we were subsidizing their space program that they were using on rocket programs, and on and on and on, how we're cutting up their old submarines and at the same shipyards they're building new submarines, how we paid to scrap their old ICBMs, but that was just cutting up the rocket and they took the warhead and put it on their new topels.
		You never scrapped the warhead.
		It goes on and on and on.
		And the average American didn't hear anything about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		no we have a certain we have a definite control the And that is that if we get too far ahead of them, if they see us getting too far ahead of them, either on the ground or at sea or in space, then there is a danger.
		There is a danger on that side as well.
		If we get too far ahead and they've got nothing but antiques that may or may not work after a certain amount of time, and they see us in space with all kinds of heavy-duty stuff, before we get too far ahead, they may decide to roll the dice.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, I'm not arguing that.
		And ultimately, don't get me wrong, I'm not into the global divide and conquer game.
		I think the Russian people are just as good a people as the U.S., the American people.
		I think the Chinese people are good people.
		They're like us.
		They want life.
		They want the best for their children.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They really do, you know.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And it's not peoples that make war.
		And ultimately, when we look at this situation and we look at other situations, we look at earth changes, we look at the plagues that are on the planet, I kind of look at it.
		It's ultimately what I would call a spiritual crisis.
		And I know in my own life, when I was young and crazy and doing things, at one point in my life, life came up and hit me over the head with a 2x4.
		And I think mankind is in the process of getting hit over the head with a 2x4.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now we agree.
		You see, I think the threat that we're ultimately likely to face, and as I watch what's going on around me in the world right now, Philip, honestly, I think the threat is liable to be a global threat.
		It could come from elsewhere or it could be right here on Earth.
		In other words, we're fighting for our own survival, not so much against the prospect of Russian or Chinese ICBMs or even rogue nation ICBMs, but with what we're doing here on the planet right now.
		And with the weather changes that we've got going on and other changes rapidly taking place in the world, that's the fight.
		That's the war that we're going to have, and we're all going to have it.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, and that may be the good war, too, because if you look at disaster, when you look at hurricanes, you look at floods and earthquakes, and you look at the response that it triggers in people, people pull together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		In ways that they would never pull together.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		They help people in ways that they would never help people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Want to worry about something, Philip?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Worry about NASA Ames, who wants to move Earth.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, that's pretty wild.
		I mean, you talk about mad scientists, but that gets out there on the edge.
		I'm sure Greenpeace has a few words to say about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I haven't had the input from Greenpeace on that one, but I'm sure they'd have a word or two.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		But I'm not a crystal ball reader.
		Don't get me wrong.
		I'm not saying something is going to happen.
		What I'm saying is, like you, I'm looking at what's going on, and I'm looking at what people are up to.
		And there's people that the evidence is pretty clear to me, that they're gearing up to do something nasty.
		And everybody's asleep.
		Now, I'm not saying it's going to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, who's they?
		The Chinese are gearing up to do something nasty?
		Russians and Chinese?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Russian and Chinese.
		There's a global chess game going on that most Americans are totally asleep on.
		Right now, the Russians have formed an alliance with the Red Chinese.
		They have weaponized the Chinese with advanced technology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Phillip, pull it right there.
		We'll be right back at the bottom of the hour.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You'll listen to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 14, 2001.
		Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
		Don't leave me this way.
		I can't survive.
		I can't say alive without your love.
		Oh, baby, don't leave me this way, baby.
		I can't accept.
		My mind, that morning, lunar, moon, you did surrender.
		Oh, yeah.
		And I have met my dreams in me in quite a single way.
		The mystery book on the shelf, the song's repeating itself.
		Yeah.
		Walleroo, I was defeating you all the more.
		Walleroo, I promise you'll love me forevermore.
		Walleroo, couldn't escape if I wanted you.
		Walleroo, knowing I'm making you defeat me.
		Oh, oh, oh, oh.
		Walleroo, finding me crazy, my boy.
		I tried to hold you back when you were stronger.
		Oh, yeah.
		And now it's been my only chance this year.
		It's not the fight.
		How could I ever refuse?
		I feel like I win when I lose.
		Walleroo, I was defeating you all the more.
		Walleroo, promise you'll love me forevermore.
		Pre-wear, Radio Networks presents Art Bell Summer in Time, tonight's program originally aired June 14th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I have no way of knowing if this is true or not, but I hope not.
		Mark in Austin, Texas, claims there is an article at Yahoo.com saying that Russian cargo planes are going to pick up the U.S. spy plane in pieces and bring it back to the U.S. Now, wait a minute.
		Let me get this straight.
		It can't be true.
		It just can't.
		Our spy plane goes down in Chinese territory.
		No matter how you calculate it happened, whether we hit them, they hit us, whatever.
		We went down in Chinese territory.
		They took that sucker apart piece by piece.
		You know they did.
		And they're probably done with it now and just want it to piece junk, get it off their territory.
		And so are we honestly going to have, could it be true that we're going to have Russian cargo planes pick up our spy plane and bring it back to the U.S. after the Chinese have been done with it?
		Somehow I find that a little hard to believe.
		But just in case there really is a story on Yahoo, I couldn't get to the link.
		I tried to link it.
		Apparently it was expired.
		But I never heard that.
		We wouldn't dare do that.
unidentified		I wouldn't do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
		It's true.
		The plane that went down in China that's been sitting on the runway, beleaguered, taken apart, photographed, printed, copied, whatever, that airplane is due to be picked up by Russian cargo planes who will deliver it back to us in pieces, I guess.
		It's all over the news tonight.
		ABC is now running.
		Can you believe that, Philip?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I saw the article myself.
		It's true.
		It's almost like the Chinese making the black beret for our military.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it's more serious than that.
		My God.
		It crashes, a crash lands on Chinese territory.
		They take it apart, have their way with it, and then turn it over to the Russians who are going to bring it back to us.
		The world has changed, Philip.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		It certainly has.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It has really changed.
		I mean, there was a day when our ego never, our national ego, never would have allowed our former and still possible one-day enemy to go pick up our spy plane down in another communist country.
		Oh, God.
		Oh, things are strange, aren't they?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		They certainly are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, I say, and I really mean this, with emerging diseases, you know, these little things that can really get you, and the weather changes, and the earth changes.
		It looks to me as though our enemy, ultimately, if we continue the mad thing long enough, our enemy is going to come from within.
		And it's going to be something we're all battling for survival.
		That's what I think.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would tend to agree with you.
		I think that ultimately the enemy is within.
		I think that we have a planet full of humanity that is running around in a sort of synthetic identity, and they're not finding what they're looking for in life, and they're running into dead ends.
		And I don't know, in my own life, you know, I ran into dead ends at a certain point, and I had to stop and think, you know, am I going the wrong way?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even now, Philip, in a way, you have to stop and think, are you going in the wrong way?
		In other words, I can clearly see what your concerns are.
		Have you considered the possibility that the threats that you're concerned about are perhaps now secondary to what's most likely to get us?
		I mean, if you consider in this world what's most likely to get us, there are physicists Working on things that, if they push the button, that could get us.
		Somebody's going to create a damn black hole in a lab one of these days.
		Or these horrible diseases like mad cow.
		Eventually, we'll fix it so nobody can have a hamburger on the planet anymore.
		I mean, it's just things are going in a pretty strange direction right now.
		Things they think they can figure out, they don't have figured out at all.
		Foles dying in Kentucky.
		They don't know why.
		They've come up with several things.
		Latest I have is they don't have a clue.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would agree to you, and nuclear is not my only or my pet beast that I pick on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got NASA Ames ready to move the planet to avoid global warming.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		I think, you know, we could talk a whole show about the biological threat and the implications of that, whether it's AIDS and the question of where did AIDS really come from or mad cow disease.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does it matter at this point?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		No, it doesn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wherever it came from, whoever said it, obviously if they had an antidote, they'd be using it by now.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Maybe, maybe not.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		You know, when you look out there in the media and the establishment is obviously infatuated with population control.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't agree with that.
unidentified		And AIDS has not done so well in that category lately.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, here in the U.S., we now have the cocktail, right?
		And it prolongs life almost indefinitely.
		You've got to take a lot of drugs, but it's expensive, about $20,000 a year, but it prolongs life.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		But it makes a lot of money for the big corporations here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people in Africa die.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people in Asia die.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Right?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And that kind of falls with kind of a racist eugenics policy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You could imagine that.
		I don't personally think that.
		Look, it's right in line with all of the other emerging things, like Mad Cow, for example.
		Do you believe that to be some sort of sponsored thing?
unidentified		What do you think?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I don't know per se, and MadCow, I've read some real interesting material over the last couple of months, but I think if we look at the history of some of the biological events that have occurred, some of them by accident and some of them by absolute intent, and we just look at the pattern, like take the polio vaccine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		We ended up with a monkey virus in there.
		And we were all assured that that was good, safe stuff and it was going to, you know, it was really going to help us out.
		and now we're seeing cancer due to monkey viruses and then The original volunteers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had sugar cubes.
		I gave us sugar cubes at school when I was a child.
		And because my name is Arthur Bell, A, B, I was right at the front of the line.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was toward the back of the line, and they lined us up like cattle.
		And when it got up to my turn, I got this intuitive thing, I'm getting out of here.
		And it took two nurses and my parents to hold me down when they hit me with that needle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somehow that figures.
		Well, what I mean is you have been very Cold War-oriented in your thinking.
		And I know that you have written a great deal about building shelters and all the rest of it.
		But is your thinking now beginning to shift?
		As you look at the current world, it has changed.
		I mean, a lot of things are the same in a sense, and the threat remains, but we have new, bigger threats in a way.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the biological threat is just as big, if not bigger, than the nuclear threat.
		So do I. And I don't argue, and I'm really concerned that there is a population control agenda.
		There's definite evidence that it's potentially there.
		You know, the World Health Organization has gotten caught on a couple of stings.
		And one is in the Philippines, they spiked the tetanus vaccine.
		They had this special program, and it was only for women of childbearing age.
		Now, typically, who do you typically want to give tetanus shots to?
		It would be the men, the guys out there working, working with the manure and doing things like that.
		They had a program that they focused strictly on children, women of childbearing age, and they did it not only in the Philippines, but they did it down in Latin America.
		They didn't do this in Sweden and the United States.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you must believe that something on this scale would be on a virtual world scale, that something like the World Health Organization or the UN or some international population control concerned group would do it.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, nonetheless, what they did is they piggybacked this thing.
		I think it's called HHG.
		And what it did was it caused women to abort spontaneously.
		And the Filipinos are the ones that figured it out.
		They got a batch.
		They started seeing this pattern of these women aborting.
		And they found that the vaccine had been contaminated with it.
		Now, you can say, well, this is an accident.
		This was just an accident, all right?
		But then we look at the smallpox vaccine in Central Africa.
		And it's obvious that from a strategic economic standpoint, and you look at the growth rates in the North American continent, in Africa, and in Asia, there's definitely a strategic shift of power that occurs when you've got population booms there and you've got a declining birth rate here.
		And we're seeing very effective population control with AIDS.
		I mean, Africa is experiencing a significant and effective population control program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		But it's not...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not agreeing with that.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not saying they agreed to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is effectively going on.
		There's no question about that.
		In other words, the population Is going seriously backwards in Africa, and it's because of AIDS.
		Correct, period.
		That's true.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And there was a third event relating to AIDS.
		We always wonder how this thing spontaneously appeared around the planet.
		And I'm sure you've heard the stories about the New York Blood Bank and the hepatitis vaccine trials they did there with gay males.
		And they replicated that program in different cities around the United States.
unidentified		And instantly, we had the appearance of AIDS.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And it was in people that were in the same selection category of those that were put in that program.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there's just too many patterns of this replicating itself that you have to start thinking, you know, what's going on here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have been thinking that for a long time, and I can't today tell you that I believe that I know there was congressional testimony, Philip, about development of something that would compromise the human immune system, and that occurred before the emergence of AIDS.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they were certainly aware that something like that could be.
		Now, I don't know if that translates to somebody in a lab did develop it and it got out of control or not.
		I have no way of knowing, but I know that that testimony did occur.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		But I think if we look at the big picture, like we come back, there are a lot of threats out there.
		And one thing I believe personally, whether it's earth changes, whether it's a nuclear threat, whether it's a biological threat, is I really believe that life gives us everything we need to ultimately deal with the crisis that could put on our doorstep.
		You know, we may need to get banged over the head to come to our senses and realize that maybe our egos don't have what it takes, that it's got to come from maybe a higher source or a spiritual source.
		But ultimately, I really believe that it's a spiritual crisis overall that we're facing and that we really need to look within to find the solutions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, with that, I agree.
		And I think the next Pearl Harbor, instead of being bombs, smart or dumb, is more likely to be something we can't even see.
		Something very small.
		Something that spreads just like the flu and just as fast with far more devastating results.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And we live in a pretty pampered society.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we have these things.
		The Russians have them and the Chinese have them.
		And probably scattered ugly little countries possess them as well.
		And the only thing they've got to figure out, of course, is how to set it loose without it affecting them.
		That's a very big problem.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the key there is it's a well-known fact that biological weapons give you the best bang for the buck.
		And it's the poor man's nukes.
		It's low-tech, it's cheap to make, and that's one reason that the U.S. government is very concerned and gearing up for bioterrorism.
		I think if we look at the situation in the Middle East, which is kind of the planetary no-win zone, a lot of that potential may pivot around what happens here in the next couple years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to ask yourself if Hezbollah or any of the really nasty organizations over there or somebody in the Baka Valley got hold of a little vial of something that would kill most people in Israel, would they use it?
		Well, sure they would.
		I mean, these are the same people sending in people with bombs on their backs strapped to their bellies and blowing up anything they can find and as many people as they can find.
		So would they use it?
		Oh, yes.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, the kind of political situation over there is fairly complex, and I don't want to really pick sides in the conflict, but nonetheless, it's a can of worms.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And I think if we look at the fact that...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		It's more than that, because the Israelis are smart.
		And they realize that their nuclear capabilities were stored in limestone caverns, and they weren't hardened facilities, and they were vulnerable to a first strike.
		And so they acquired three German diesel-electric submarines, extremely high-tech and quiet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They've got them, I know.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And they have sub-launch cruise missile capabilities.
		And you can bet they're nuclear-tipped.
		And what they do is they keep two of those subs out at all times, and the third one is rotating back into port.
		And you can see, you know, there's the saber rattling is going on over there.
		And short of some miraculous, miraculous solution.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're headed for war.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		They're headed for war.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't disagree with you at all.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And if Iraq crosses Jordan to get involved, they're going to let the stuff fly.
		And then where is that going to put the United States?
		Where is that going to put Russia?
		And, you know, and obviously we're not the only ones who have gone through this scenario and had this discussion.
		Now, if you were on the bin Laden side, you know, I don't even know if bin Laden exists.
		Sometimes I think he's a universal scapegoat, you know, that replaces right-wing extremists in the United States, or maybe they're partners now, or I don't know.
		You know, you've got to have a scapegoat there for the public.
		But nonetheless, there are terrorist groups who do have biological capabilities.
		And obviously, if the U.S. comes in and backs up Israel in the event of a major conflict between the Arabs, this is going to polarize the Arab bloc against the United States.
		And at the least, we're going to feel the revenge at the gas pumps.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I frankly don't think, and I'm just speaking On a guess, but I don't think the Israelis would need us, frankly, if push came to shove and they used, if they had two, nuclear weapons, as you pointed out, they now have at sea as well.
		They wouldn't need us.
		I don't think that any Arab country right now is capable of even coming close to a mad-type scenario with the Israelis.
		There's just no contest.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes and no, but you've got a situation now where Russia is forming alliances in the Middle East, alliances with Iran, and they've transferred the same sunburned missiles to Iran that they transferred to China.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, listen, I won't disagree with you at all.
		You have written a book called No Such Thing as Doom Day, even though that's more or less what we've talked about for the last two hours, right?
		Right.
		Your book is available where?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		You can go to our website at no doom, N-O-D-O-O-M dot-com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And actually, it's a good, you know, no matter what you believe, Philip's book is excellent to have around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if something did happen, this would be the manual, more or less, on how to survive, right, Philip?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		It covers everything from purifying water to long-term food storage to EMP protection to radiation shielding and, you know, and it's got a very extensive chapter on independent power systems and disaster communications.
		It just goes on and on and on and on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, brother.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		We've even got a chapter on disaster psychology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Art.
unidentified		It was a pleasure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good luck, and we'll do it again sometime.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, Philip.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from June 14, 2001.
		It's like magic.
		Oh, rolling and riding and slipping and sliding.
		It's magic.
		And you and your wings are like, you should be.
		Oh, oh.
		I'm a bad baby.
		It's a living thing to do.
		It's a terrible thing to do.
		It's a given thing to do.
		What a terrible...
		BOOM
		Be it sight, sand, smell, or touch.
		There's something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of the touch or the scent of the sand.
		Or the strength of an oak when you're deep in the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
		To lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing.
		All these things in our memory sore.
		And the useful to come to me.
		And you fly, but let's go, make it face.
		on this trip, take a look at me.
		Take a three-ride, take a breath.
		I'm a sleep.
		It's hard to create I've been a long way to save the years But so hard just to end my fears And to end my life in all my life But by now, by now, you're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an oncore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 14th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we're about to go into open lives.
		Listen, I have yet another answer from the not-so-amazing Randy.
		So I guess he's getting a few emails from you all out there, and I will read you at least a portion of the latest in a moment.
		As you know, for a little while now, I've been back on Randy's case again because Randy has offered a million dollars to anybody who can prove the existence of PSI, prove the existence of the paranormal in any way.
		He's got a million dollars up there.
		He says that he's ready to give to anybody who can prove it.
		And yet, invited on my program, he responds, for example, this way.
		I mean, all I did was say, Randy's chicken.
		And he responds.
		Somebody wrote to him, Art Bell last Friday claimed that he has asked you numerous times to appear on his radio show, and you have declined.
		Randy writes back, occasionally, Bell gets something right.
		Yes.
		He's begged me three or four times to appear, and I told him plainly that I would not participate in his circus.
		He has no regard for the truth, pandering to the needs of the gullible instead.
		And he knows full well the truth behind the ridiculous claims made by his guests, dames in particular.
		He chooses to perpetuate those claims.
		My going on his show would accomplish nothing for me and everything for him.
		He has control over what's said when I'm not there and can simply repeat his lies again and again.
		One does not play another man's game when the other man makes up the rules and controls the gate and he goes on.
		Hey, that's the swill they live by, says Randy.
		Every week I get email from people who tell me, hey, just listen in to see how silly the show is.
		I don't know, because I don't get it here.
		That's not something I'm going to help by participating in.
		Bell is playing a juvenile game.
		And I got over those things he said many years ago.
unidentified		Well, Randy, Randy, Randy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Playing a juvenile game, you're the one putting up the million dollars.
		What's that?
		That's not juvenile.
		And then you can't stand a challenge.
		Now, my listeners know, Randy, they know whatever it is I do when I have guests on the air, I'm fair to my guests.
		Always.
		I'm always fair, Randy.
		I don't do setups, and I don't go get people, and I don't do sweat interviews.
		Randy, this is your chance to come on in a fair forum with somebody who claims to be able to do what you have put up your juvenile million dollars to challenge.
		And so here we are, Randy.
		Open airways.
		I'd let you say what you want to say.
		Ask any guest I've had on.
		I don't shut up guests.
		I let them go.
		Sometimes a little farther than they probably ought to go.
		And that would be the same for you, Randy.
		I wouldn't do that.
		So it seems to me it's a little juvenile to put up a million dollars and say, well, somebody who can, and I've got somebody, or several somebodies.
		I've got lots of really good remote viewers, not just dad names, lots of good remote viewers.
		Randy.
		And I haven't lied about you, Randy.
		All I've said is, walk, walk, walk, walk, walk.
		And I say again, chicken.
		Chicken, Randy.
		Chicken, chicken, chicken, chicken.
		West of the Rockies?
		Well, you would have been on the air.
		East of the Rockies, you're not a dial tone, so you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Going once, going twice, gone.
		Wild card line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
		Hello.
		Didn't a few years ago you have a program about the aliens messing around with the North Dakota and the silos, missile silos?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, yes, of course.
		Yes, not aliens.
		Well, maybe aliens, but craft that appeared over our silos and indeed shut down our ICBMs.
		That happened, ma'am.
		In Russia, the opposite.
		They actually began a countdown there with an object over their silos.
		Yes.
unidentified		Okay, well, I was wondering if you thought perhaps they might get involved.
unidentified		I mean, if a nuclear exchange did happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They might.
unidentified		They could.
unidentified		Certainly they have the technology that could shut it down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but I wouldn't depend on it either, because their attitude could also be, well, I guess we could stop it, but, you know, maybe they want Earth.
		Maybe they want this planet.
		We are kind of a green oasis if you look around a little bit.
		You don't see a lot of other Earths out there right now.
		We imagine them statistically and mathematically, but we don't know of them, do we?
		Earth-type planets.
		We don't know of them.
		Green and blue and lush and ready for biological life.
		There aren't a lot of them out there right now that we are actually aware of.
		So we might be cutting them a nice prize.
		And if we decide to blow ourselves to smithereens, from their point of view, perhaps on their time scale, why a little radiation wouldn't be so bad.
		So I wouldn't depend on anyone or anything to stop it if we begin it.
		Maybe, but I wouldn't depend on it.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		I guess you're not.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Yeah, Whiskey 6th Oscar, Bravo, Bravo.
unidentified		That's good evening to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, good evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What could I do for you, sir?
unidentified		What have you heard any more about them developing abilities to detect our stealth aircraft?
unidentified		I've heard a whole bunch of shouting in the past about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		By them, I take it you mean the Russians, the Chinese, or a quote enemy.
		I don't know.
		I heard that the B-2 bomber is not stealthy at all.
		It's supposed to be, but it didn't work out that way.
		Somehow it's quite well seen on radar.
		The F-117, no.
		You know, the 117 has been around for a while.
		I would imagine the Russians and the Chinese have probably figured out a way to detect that aircraft.
		But I don't know that for sure.
		I know that other countries like Iraq have not, and so they should really think hard before they do things because they can't see us coming.
		Most of the Rockies are on the air.
unidentified		Hold on, I'm extinguishing my radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
unidentified		This is Gary in Boulder, Colorado.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Gary.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		By the way, the guest you had, the repeat on Monday, Dr. David Anderson.
unidentified		Extremely interesting fellow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		I had no idea that that kind of work was going on.
		Now, are we paying for that, the taxpayers?
		Is that private?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that's private.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		It would be great if you would stay in touch with him periodically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, depend on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With my interest in time travel?
unidentified		Very good.
		I wanted to ask you a question or rather see if this is something you would consider.
		I've heard a lot of talk about with the remote viewing, which is also fascinating.
		There seems to be a tremendous focus on the Antichrist and the false prophet and so on.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People's sense that he is close.
unidentified		Yes, I agree.
unidentified		What I would like to see is, can we have Ed or another remote viewer focus on the Messiah himself?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ed has done that as a concept and said that indeed the Messiah was real and did walk the earth.
		I'm sort of curious, sir.
		Randy, what do you think of this Randy thing?
		I mean, he's got the million dollars up, right?
		Isn't he chicken if he won't come on the show?
		Do you ever see me treat guests unfairly?
unidentified		No, actually, Art, I think you treat them very fairly.
unidentified		Even when you disagree with them, you have a way of making your point without complaining.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really do try.
		And so this is actually a fair forum, I believe, and he'd get a fair shake here.
		So I can only conclude.
unidentified		I would agree with you.
unidentified		I have seen him on the news several times, and he never gets in the room face to face with people when he disputes their claims.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm prepared for a controlled experiment, and to be in negotiation with him about what the control means and to have it on the show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if he won't do it, he's chicken.
unidentified		I agree with you, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much, and take care.
		Chicken!
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Art, this is Steve from Cruise Bay, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Steve.
unidentified		CWRO, 6.20 a.m. on the dial.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the way to do it.
unidentified		Thank you.
		Okay.
		I'm a little disappointed with your last guest.
		It seemed that he kind of made us look like we weren't going to be anything in comparison to China as it was a potential war.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, listen.
		Well, as of now, that's dead wrong.
		I mean, the Chinese have a very limited capability, and we'd blow them off the face of the earth.
		However, that doesn't rule out the possibility that after that the Russians might get involved and all kinds of nasty things could occur.
		So eventually, though, he's going to be right.
		China is moving economically and politically, but mostly economically, in a direction that will run right over us if we don't watch it.
unidentified		But Art, I've done a little research on this, and from what I've been reading, we've got stuff that people haven't even heard of called the X-22 and all sorts of, you know, these flying triangles everybody is seeing.
unidentified		I believe that that stuff belongs to us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think militarily right now we'd squash them like a bunch of ants.
		No question about that.
		But that's not what I'm worried about, sir.
		I'm worried about what China is becoming economically.
		And if there's not a war, they eventually will romp over us because the ability they have over there and the industrial revolution that's going on right now over there, you can't minimize it.
		If there's no war, they'll run over us economically.
unidentified		I agree.
unidentified		Corporate greed will all evil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the way to really, yeah, but corporate greed.
		But, you know, we are, our whole economy is based on, you know, I'm not ashamed to say it, large corporations and business.
		That's what it's based on.
		And if there's not a war, they will ultimately beat us at our own game.
unidentified		I agree.
		I got one last thing.
		Can you get somebody, I haven't heard for a while since you've been back, but can you get somebody, a guest, that will talk about some of these new weapons?
		No, I haven't heard anybody talk about them.
		And I know they're out there, nano stuff like nanobots and all that type of stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I've talked a lot about that.
		I had a number of guests on nanotechnology.
		The last one talking a great deal about gray goo.
		Didn't you hear that?
unidentified		I guess I missed that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know what gray goo is?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, let me help you out.
		You're going to love this one.
		What you do is you get a little nano machine, teeny-weeny nano machine, and you simply set it loose, instructing it at all costs and with all material available to duplicate itself.
		That's all.
unidentified		Do you think the Chinese have anything like that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute.
		Let me finish.
		To duplicate itself.
		And what essentially will occur is all material, biological, the cell phone you're holding, the road you're driving on, everything would be slowly or not so slowly as it went on turned into gray goo, virtually nothing, converted to nothing.
		Oh, yes.
		And I've asked a number of other very distinguished scientists about that, and they say, oh, yes.
		You know, it's something we thought of.
		All you do is turn a little machine loose, instructing it with all available materials to duplicate itself.
		And slowly spreading out from a center and moving in all directions equally quickly, given available materials, and there would be everywhere, we would slowly see gray goo replacing all that is.
		Grass, forests, rainforests, cities, farmlands, cows, people.
		It would roll over everything.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Don in Mount Vernon, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Don.
unidentified		Hey, did you get any response on that vortex cloud?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, yes, quite a bit, Don.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And a number of people said that it was pretty weird.
unidentified		Yeah, the Florida Today last November had an article, and they called them whole punch clouds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whole punch clouds, yes.
unidentified		I have the URL.
unidentified		I can send that to you if you like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The intriguing aspect of this whole punch cloud that I had on the website, the photographs, was the contrail that quite obviously went directly into it.
unidentified		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some sort of coincidence?
		I don't know.
		A whole bunch of my listeners took pictures of it coming from different angles in different towns.
unidentified		Yeah, you put that together with HARP, and what do you got?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A storm over Houston?
unidentified		It could very well be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate the call.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are a lot of people saying the storm over Houston acted in an unnatural manner.
		Formed, moved, and progressed in a completely unnatural manner.
		Now, you have that on the one hand, and then on the other hand, you have people that are naturally suspicious about weather modification attempts.
		Possibly global warming.
		Now, global warming, in my opinion, is A, real.
		B, our government, I'm sure, realizes it.
		The weather changes are now being acknowledged even by our president.
		So are they attempting to do something about it covertly?
		I'd say there's probably a pretty good chance, wouldn't you?
		I mean, what else do governments do?
		They observe what's going on and they want to keep selling their oil.
		Not too many of you would dispute that, right?
		They want to keep selling their oil.
		And so what are we going to do?
		Hmm, what are we going to do?
		The oil is causing this.
		At least it's exacerbating a trend.
		It certainly seems to be.
		Everybody's pretty well leveling out on almost agreeing on that one, save a few.
		So wouldn't they naturally begin to think about, hmm, what can we do and keep selling our oil?
		Hey, let's move the planet.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, Art Bob and Pocatello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Bob.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Extinguish your radio, please.
unidentified		I just shut her off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Proceed.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm following up on your guests this evening, Mr. Hogue.
		Yeah.
		And I might comment just we appreciate your objectivity and also your refusal to screen your callers.
		I think that you couldn't say that about a lot of talk shows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		True.
unidentified		But on Mr. Hogue, I think perhaps one of the things in your discussion with him that ought to be more considered is what this means is the United States position amongst the third world countries.
		I mean, the fact that we are unilaterally disarming.
		And don't you feel that this makes literally a less stable world?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, if we go too far with disarmament, obviously it makes for a less stable world for us.
		No question about it.
		But if we go the other way too far, it also makes for an unstable world.
unidentified		Well, certainly.
unidentified		But I mean, surely, you know, there should be some semblance of balance between the East and the West, or it would look to me like the third world is other, and of course, we would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's like the kid standing in front of the other kid saying, go ahead, punch me in the belly.
unidentified		Yeah, that's about what it is.
		But, you know, I mean, I think Mr. Hogan and you both covered a lot of the shortcomings.
		I mean, not only in the nuclear field, but biological field, certainly we have a responsibility to stockpile interferon and antiviral agents and also stockpile antibiotics for the biological agents at the same time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, so we also have a responsibility to stockpile viral agents.
unidentified		But we don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm asking you, do we?
unidentified		Well, you know, under the Kissinger policy 30 years ago, we destroyed our biological and our viral stockpiles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, right.
unidentified		But there's a big but there, but we always have the capacity to regenerate, but the question is the time element.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you see, I think, sir, that things have so changed that it's not necessary to have canisters upon canisters, warehouses of canisters anymore.
		We live in a new age.
		And the biological threat now could be in a single test tube.
		Let me repeat that.
		The global biological threat could be in a single test tube.
		You don't need warehouses full of deliverable chemicals and biologicals.
		Because now we have the ability to genetically modify, let's say, a flu virus, for example, and turn it into something so horrible that the world would virtually might as well turn into gray goo.
		So I think times have changed, and with them the weapons have changed.
		But just one little test too.
		Remember 12 Monkeys?
		Remember that movie?
		Well, I think it's true today.
unidentified		You'll listen to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 14, 2001.
		I'm in a spin.
		I gave you love.
		I thought that we had made it to the top.
		I gave you all I had to give.
		What did it have to stop?
		You've blown it all sky high by telling me a lie without a reason why.
		You've blown it all sky high by telling me a lie without a reason why.
		Where would I be without my one love?
		Good morning, Mr. Sunshine.
		You brighten up my day.
		Come sit beside me in your place.
		Lonely baby, lonely baby, well I'll be without my wall.
		Lonely days, lonely days, lonely nights, where I'll be without my woman.
		Lonely days, lonely days, lonely nights, lonely nights, where I'll be without my woman.
		Lonely days, lonely days, lonely days, lonely days, lonely days.
		listening to Watch Bell Somewhere in Time, the night featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from June 14th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I'm still thinking about our spy plane.
		It appears to be true.
		I can't believe it.
		I really can't believe it.
		Our spy plane that went down in China, you know, maybe as a result of what they did, probably, as opposed to what we did.
		But I mean, we had it over there near their territory, right?
		And so she goes down in China.
		She's examined in detail by the Chinese.
		And then we contract with the Russians to bring our plane back to us.
		The Russians to bring our plane back to us.
		Please.
		I just cannot believe that I would have lived long enough to have seen this occur.
		The Russians bring back our plane.
		I just, I sort of don't believe it, but I recognize it is happening.
		Back now to open lines.
		Russians.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Ken in Washington, Como 1000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I have two comments for you, if I could, just for a second.
unidentified		The first on the spy plane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		It does sound ridiculous, but you know what?
		We had the Russians one time observing us in a similar type reconnaissance plane.
		They're really not spy planes.
		They ran out low on fuel.
		We allowed them to land.
		We knew what they were doing and watching.
		We refueled them and we sent them on their way.
		Same scenario over there in China, except we were well into international areas.
		They just didn't want to play.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that may be so.
		But it's on the ground, and they're going to disassemble it.
		And I don't know what happened to our national pride that we would allow the Russians to cart it back for us.
		I don't know.
		There's just something wrong with that picture.
unidentified		Well, we're coming out of the Cold War thing now.
unidentified		Believe it or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty far out.
		That's maybe a little too far out for my taste.
		I mean, it's bad enough the Chinese got to look it over and take it apart.
		But, I mean, the Russians...
		I know, but it still isn't what you would call your wonderful I trust you with my daughter next-door neighbor, right?
unidentified		Right, exactly.
		Well, that was one point.
		The other one was Philip.
		Now, I know there's a lot of speculation, but in my opinion, he's really behind the curve on a lot of this stuff.
		It appears he is like outside, to put it plainly, a theater, a movie theater.
		And he's telling people about the scenario, but he's never seen the movie or been inside, as a lot of Americans have not.
		If you look at our history, we've pulled ourselves out of a lot of gritty situations.
		And we are on top.
		I don't believe, like you said, there's no threat from another country.
		It'll be a backpacker.
		It'll be a biological threat or something, but nobody is going to push any buttons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I tend to agree with that.
		However, I would not want to see us disarm to the point that we invited the punch in the belly.
		There was Pearl Harbor, and we should never, ever, ever, ever forget it.
unidentified		No, that's exactly right.
		And I think we were looking for a way to get into that one.
		I hate to say it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that may be.
		It may be that a geopolitical situation of the time was such that an American president would say, we need to be in this and get it done.
		I understand that.
		Believe me, I understand that.
		But we should never, all things said, we are certainly in a different time.
		I think that's right.
		And in fact, during the interview, I asked Philip to consider that situation.
		We are in a very different time.
		and the threat is probably the main threat is a little different than it was but that doesn't mean you let your conventional In a way, they are the convention.
		It's what we would use.
		You don't let your guard down to the point where you would get punched or invite the punch.
		Wildcard Lynn, you're on the air.
		Hello.
john in ohio ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
		Hi.
		Yes, you know, I was listening to this, what's his name, Philip Holves?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
john in ohio ▲ ● ▼		And I think in every case, it seems that you have people on who, in the guise of presenting an alternative to the establishment military industrial line, give the most extreme version of the spy mania, the 10-foot-tall enemy, the old snake oil that we've had throughout the Cold War, with even less pretext.
		Now, I wonder why you won't have somebody on from Covert Action Magazine, Covert Action Org, or Space for Peace.
		They've got spaceforpeace.org, a website, people on who point out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, look, first of all, I would have them on and will have them on.
john in ohio ▲ ● ▼		No, you don't, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Put me in touch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll put them on.
john in ohio ▲ ● ▼		Well, space number four, they use the name number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, quit giving URLs on the air.
		You don't have to do that.
		Get me somebody who would be a spokesperson and put me in touch.
john in ohio ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think I could give you some of the points that they make.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then do that.
john in ohio ▲ ● ▼		The point is that they're pointing out that all of the things that Phil Polk was talking about, projecting these aggressive designs on the other side, such as China, which has, as you point out, 20 or 30 obsolete weapons, we've got about 7,000, not 2,000, as Philip Polk said, the most invulnerable, the most accurate and powerful in the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Either way, it would be overwhelming.
john in ohio ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
john in ohio ▲ ● ▼		And this whole cover story, that this ABM missile defense is defensive, is nothing but that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A cover story put out by the people around this military-industrial complex like anything they would say, they'd get up there that they would say is defensive probably could be used defensively or offensively.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you and I both damn well know they know that and are planning for that.
john in ohio ▲ ● ▼		So one of their quotes is that from the vision for 2020, which was a commission chaired by Donald Rumsfeld, he says the globalization, this commission says the globalization of the world economy will continue with aligning between haves and haves-nots, says the U.S. Space Command.
		By controlling space and the Earth below, the United States will be able to keep those have-nots in line.
		So I think if anything, it's the United States that has to be deterred.
		The United States that has to be somehow counterbalanced if we're going to have any stability in the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't fully disagree with that.
		I think you heard me tell him that there was as much a danger in going the other way as the way he was suggesting we're going.
		If we go overboard and we build up this big space thing, then there is a danger.
		If the world sees us doing that, a lot of people are going to think preemption.
john in ohio ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly where we're going with people like Cheney and his wife on the board of Lockheed Martin and the head of Lockheed Martin, the biggest military contractor in the world, writing the platform committee for the Republican Party that was even bragged about by Jackson, who was the vice president of corporate strategy for Lockheed Martin.
		And when you've got people like that and Rumsfeld, who was one of the lobbyists for the Star Wars boondoggle, we're moving exactly in that direction.
		And I think people ought to realize that the United States, throughout its history, has Refused to renounce first strike.
		It has behind back channels threatened to use nuclear weapons in times of conflict with other countries.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not necessarily against that.
john in ohio ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm saying if it happened on the other part of other countries, I think people would be very much against that.
john in ohio ▲ ● ▼		And I think it begins to show that people like the people you have on as guests again and again and again are appealing the same scare tactics that are actually funneling our national treasure in the pockets of these warmongers.
unidentified		Sir?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's scary either way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If what you're laying out is no less frightening than what he laid out.
john in ohio ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that what I'm laying out is exactly the opposite of anything we're hearing on this media that he says is controlled.
		The media he's talking about, like General Electric owning NBC as one of the biggest military contractors.
		They're not going to tell us this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I'm not controlled.
		I mean, I'm letting you say what you want to say, and to some degree I'm agreeing with you.
		But I'm just saying that what you're describing, if it's true, is every damn bit as frightening and dangerous, perhaps, as what he described.
john in ohio ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think you ought to have somebody on who represents that viewpoint rather than a Mr. Hobe again and again and again.
john in ohio ▲ ● ▼		That's all I've heard on your program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not sure.
john in ohio ▲ ● ▼		I think it's just a version of the military-industrial propaganda that the media is peddling us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have you, and I don't fully disagree with you at all.
		In fact, President Eisenhower rightly told us, beware the military-industrial complex.
		He knew.
		And it's still true.
		It's a machine that rolls on and perpetuates itself with our tax dollars and could be every bit as dangerous to world peace and stability as the opposite, the old Cold War way, the old mad way.
		It could be as dangerous or even more dangerous.
		I have no problem having somebody on.
		Rust of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good evening, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening.
unidentified		My name is Gary.
		I'm from Seattle.
		Listen on Como?
		Yes, sir.
		Listen, I got one thing to say before I make another remark about the plane situation.
		Oh, yes.
		This is just another little way China is using to rub this into our face.
		Powell asked them to let us bring it back on the U.S. plane, and they refused to do this.
		These giant Illusion transports are quite interesting.
		They land them here at Boeing Field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I've seen them.
unidentified		These transports, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely incredible.
		But I don't care, sir.
		It's Russia.
		It's a Russian plane, and it's Russians, and we ought to be able to get our own damn spy plane.
unidentified		Well, like I said, it's another way for China to rub our face in it one more time.
		You know, I think to me the danger that's going on now is just the whole world, but specifically the U.S., is a question of hubris.
		This is sort of like what probably happened to Atlantis if it existed.
		We probably have some weapons just as powerful as they had, maybe not psychically, but that's what took them down, supposedly, and that's what will take us down, is getting out of balance.
		The MAD doctrine, at least it kept the world in balance.
		It did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's worked all this time.
unidentified		Everyone was equally terrified.
		And then, you know, Rumsfeld right now scares me more than anyone.
		Just like that guy said, this new 2020 military scenario and him trying to control space.
		He's a very man out of the past, you know, and I don't trust anything he does.
		But I agree with you also, as the danger to us right now is not military, I don't believe.
		I believe it's going to be ecological.
		And I just heard another report.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that one kind of creeps up on you.
unidentified		Yeah, I just heard another report about stuff.
		In fact, you were talking about the Gobi dust coming over where you are.
		Did you hear what caused that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know the Jet Stream brought it over.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
		But Lester Brown and some of the people, they claim, I heard reports that some of the people over here in the West were warning China that if they didn't convert certain techniques of farming, they were going to fall behind and run out of food.
		Well, apparently they started sending farmers into their Northwest Territories and chopping up the land over there to try and farm it.
		And that's what caused all the dust to come over.
		And now we've got another report.
		They found dust coming over across the whole Atlantic Ocean from the Sahara Desert.
		They've actually found now that they know what to look for, some actual dunes from years ago.
		They know it comes over and they're beginning to figure out the little particles and microbes come over on this stuff.
		And people in Miami are breathing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		bet they do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You would not...
unidentified		I'm in Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Seattle.
		I don't know whether it hit you in Seattle.
		I think it did for a short time.
unidentified		Yeah, some of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then it moved south.
		But let me tell you something.
		When this Chinese crap got to us, it was so thick that it hurt to breathe.
		Your eyes hurt when you went outside.
		You couldn't.
		It was like fog.
		It was really that bad.
		And people around the country, I'm sure, that weren't hit by it just don't believe what I'm saying.
		But it really was that bad.
unidentified		Well, people should be paying attention because in case they haven't heard, I'm sure you did.
		They're beginning to realize in the satellite reconnaissance.
		Now this is happening more and more.
		They're seeing these floating clouds of pollution all around the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
unidentified		I mean, you know.
		One more thing I'll quote to you.
		We had an article in our paper here about it.
		It says, you know, Bush is kind of like the blind leading the blind on this climate stuff.
		We had an article here about U.S. trails, both Britain and Japan and research on climate for the last decade.
		And they quoted a guy here from NOAA.
		He said this guy named Dr. Peter Tans, and he said, if something doesn't happen, we're done.
		To really understand the climate, we've got to establish a high-quality record that can be trusted.
		And the National Academy of Sciences report, they recommended we start a National Climate Prediction Service.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Yes, I'm very aware.
		Thank you very much.
		Yes, he's absolutely right.
		Now, the report that has recently suggested that global warming is certainly real and by the hand of man does have dissenters.
		Contrary to what you might read, there are dissenters.
		People who signed on to the report did not sign on to only what was released to the press.
		In other words, it was only a portion of it released.
		Now, to be sure, the majority of scientists agree that it's real and by the hand of man, but not all agree with that, and I want you to be aware they don't.
		And I'm sure you're aware they don't.
		I hope you are.
		If not, become aware.
		Do a little Reading.
		Nevertheless, the consensus clearly is that it's real.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Geez, that was quick.
unidentified		Didn't expect you to come on that third.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everybody says that.
unidentified		Spooky stuff.
		Anyway, I'm so sorry I missed you on TV.
		I'll have to catch that pretty soon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, you didn't miss that much.
unidentified		It's interesting to see another angle of Mr. Bell.
unidentified		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you don't really, though, because when you're on TV, you're playing a part.
		The only place where you would have caught me, I did an hour on Larry King.
		There, you would have caught the real me.
unidentified		No, I got that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you're in one of these series, then you're just playing a part.
unidentified		I got that.
unidentified		You were wearing a black shirt, I believe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		Yeah, I remember that, and you gave him a little radioactive thing, and he was scared to touch it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what I remember is I handed it to him, and he put it in his pocket.
unidentified		Oh, no.
unidentified		I guess you don't have any kids.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then I asked him, you don't plan on having any more children, do you?
		And as we well know, he certainly did.
		So he whipped that little sucker out of his pocket so fast.
unidentified		Oh, my God.
		Anyway, what I was calling you about that it's sort of strange.
		I've called, this is like two times this happened.
		I've called and talked to you, and I brought up one thing, and then the same thing I brought up, Ed Dames came a week later and said the same thing I talked to you about, and then again I talked about something, and Ed Dames talked about something again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Recognition.
unidentified		It is weird.
unidentified		So I know what he's going to talk about next time.
john in ohio ▲ ● ▼		What?
unidentified		He's going to bring up, it's sort of weird.
		I've had this weird ability since I was in school.
		I'd be able to say things before to teachers.
		I don't know if everybody does that, but it actually scared me when I was a kid growing up.
		I'd say things that I never heard before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, if you know what Ed is going to bring up next, let's have it.
unidentified		Okay.
		I brought up the environment and how bad the environment's messed up, and I was talking about specific details when I talked to you, and then he brought up the exact same details.
		And the next thing he's going to bring up is the environment, basically the beginning, the visual beginning of the end, when we start seeing the real noticeable difference of the environment.
		And we know the weather's changing, obviously, but we'll be able to see things that are completely unusual.
		One thing is that we know the ozone is getting so thin over the poles it's melting the caps, obviously.
		And there will be areas in the sky where in the daytime you'll be able to see black spots like almost seen right in the space.
		That will happen probably about a few years, but he'll talk about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be really worrisome.
		Oh, now there is a new one.
		Now, if he talks about that, you get great respect from me.
		Black areas of the sky, as though you're looking through...
		And so you have no blue sky, you have a black sky.
unidentified		Right.
		The thing is, our atmosphere reflects all the light.
		That's why we see blue.
		On other planets that don't have atmospheres, you see directly into space.
		As we lose our atmosphere, parts of the Earth, you'll see black spots where you can see right through to space.
		And the main thing is that the first thing, the thing that created life on this planet was a long time ago, there's things called microbes in space.
		Space is full of microbial life forms.
		And that started life.
		It's very small, and it started life on this planet.
		Now what's happening is we're losing our atmosphere, and the same microbes that started life on this planet is now taking life from us.
		And it's mutating things on a very small level in bacteriums.
		That's why bacteriums, we have bacteriums, and all our food, the government has radiated all our food, as you know.
		They've been doing it for 10 years to keep these bacterias off our food so we don't die.
		But we're not doing it to our animals.
		That's why we have mad cow.
		They're eating food that's outside.
		It's covered with this new bacteria that's being mutated from bacterias from space coming in because of the thinning of the ozone.
		And basically there's a lot of other things, diseases that will be mutated.
		Our water needs to be controlled, which hasn't been done yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this definitely sounds like Ed Dames' material.
unidentified		Yeah, he's going to bring that up.
		He hasn't touched on it yet because he's probably scared about it.
		Next communication he'll have with you will probably be through a wire or a fax.
		And he might not go on the air fully, but he will later.
		He'll start talking about how serious it is and how our government's been monitoring.
		And the thing he won't talk about is a sprain, which I wouldn't really want to go into either.
		But as you know, the space microbes, they feed off of metallic materials such as aluminum.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean like the stuff up at Mir?
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		And we're feeding off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was going after titanium.
		Forget aluminum.
		It was eating titanium.
unidentified		Listen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, show's over.
		Out of time.
		Tell everybody good night.
unidentified		Good night, world, to Mark Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you are.
unidentified		Good night, world to Mark Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, tomorrow night, Dr. Stephen Greer is going to be here.
		So it's going to be a combination of probably about two hours of Dr. Greer, who's going to update you on everything that happened in Washington.
		Boy, does he have a story to tell?
		And then we'll do open lines as well for a Friday night, Saturday morning.
		And that's how it stacks up at this hour.

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