Linda Moulton Howe and Stephan Schwartz explore a sunken city off Cuba’s coast, confirmed by ADC’s sonar scans in 2001, with National Geographic planning an ROV dive. Schwartz’s remote viewing experiments—like locating Cleopatra’s palace—suggest human consciousness transcends time-space, debunking ELF wave theories. Atlantis comparisons arise, though dismissed as myth, while callers link the site to Lovecraftian lore or UFO-related shadow entities. NASA’s speculative Earth-moving plans and biblical authorship debates briefly intersect before Bell underscores unresolved mysteries, from submerged civilizations to potential non-human involvement, leaving listeners questioning hidden histories and government secrecy. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert and the great American Southwest.
I'll bid you all good evening and or good morning or good afternoon, wherever you may be across this great globe of ours.
At least now before they move it, we'll have a more detailed story in the next hour.
But this hour is being set aside for Linda Molmow, who is going to give us a report we've all been waiting for on the progress on the story, verifying the story on the sunken city off the coast of Cuba.
That's coming up shortly.
I'd like to welcome a brand new affiliate to the ever-increasing cold as we get that close to 500 WEGP in Preston, Maine, 1390 on the dial way up north in Maine.
WEGP Prest Isle, Maine, 1390, and hello to McDonnell Smith and Walter Prue, respectively the GMPD of WEGP Great Beyond there, way up north.
You'd think we were up north as our temperatures have now dropped here in the desert to an incredible in June.
Art Bell From Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, she's a crop circle researcher, environmental reporter, has had a number of documentaries on the environment.
We can sure use that, can't we?
And a general scientific reporter for both Dreamland and Coast to Coast AM here in the late night with a story everybody's been waiting for.
Well, when I reported last month on Coast about the Cuba discovery, I had an interview with Barbara Moffat, Director of Plans and Programs at the National Geographic Society in Washington, who confirmed that the society was aware of the deepwater mystery off the western tip of Cuba.
She said that Geographic was communicating with Paulina Zielitsky and her husband Paul Weinsweig, partners in Canada's advanced digital communications company known as ADC.
Last month, National Geographic was trying to decide whether to help fund a dive in a remotely operated vehicle that would have cameras to see what is down there.
Today, I talked again with Barbara Moffat, and she confirmed that National Geographic has now made an official agreement for exclusive magazine coverage.
Paulina Zielitsky is a former Russian ocean engineer who defected to Canada some years ago and married Canadian businessman Paul Weinzwei.
She has been testing deep ocean equipment on a boat off the coast of Mexico since the Reuters story broke with her comments.
In that mid-May article, she said that her company, Advanced Digital Communications, found, quote, a huge land plateau with clear images of what appears to be man-made, large-sized architectural designs partly covered by sand.
From above, the shapes resemble pyramids, roads, and buildings, unquote.
Four years ago, the couple joined other funding partners from Australia to create ADC in Victoria, British Columbia to work deep ocean waters for science and underwater archaeology.
Polina Zielitsky is still testing equipment in Mexico now for this ROV mission that will take video cameras down to the 2,200-foot site to see what is making these mysterious geometric side-scan sonar images.
And for coast listeners who would like to see what a side-scan sonar image looks like, you can see one now on my website, www.earthfiles.com.
It's the top story in the science section about Cuba.
That's www.earthfiles.com in science.
And it is an odd-looking image, not what I expected.
And we can talk more about that after the break because now what I want to do is move on to something very important, which is that I recently was able to talk with her husband, Paul Weinsweig.
And at first, he did not want to say anything on the record because he said that after the Reuters article, Cuban officials asked him to not do any more media interviews until there is hard photographic evidence of what's underwater.
I said that all I wanted on the record for radio was a status report about what his wife, Paulina Zelitsky, had already talked about with Reuters.
And I also pointed out that ABC and Disney got to use a clip from the ADC research ship to promote Disney's animated feature about Atlantis.
That was on this past Sunday.
And with that, Mr. Weinzweig finally agreed to say a few guarded comments.
And in terms of the promotion for the Voyage to Atlantis movie, which was on Sunday, June 10th, they did discuss a little bit about Cuba.
And on the ABC station, they said that it was, quote, most likely the site of an underground civilization such as Atlantis.
And they are promoting that movie.
What was your perspective on what ABC is doing with the movie and their comments and using a clip of yours?
unidentified
I haven't seen the film.
I haven't seen the TV.
Well, there's obviously a lot of interest in the subject.
There's a lot of interest in ancient civilizations, in the mysteries that surround them, and in the idea of Atlantis, which was supposedly an advanced civilization, which Mother Nature sent to the bottom of the ocean.
And who knows, maybe Mother Nature will send a few more advanced civilizations to the bottom of the ocean.
And in terms of those shapes of the pyramids and the rectangles that Paulina Zeliski discussed with Reuters, that they might fit with what was once upon a time the ancient culture on the Yucatan or something else?
unidentified
Possibly.
Possibly.
We're not.
Nobody's seen these before, so it's very difficult to say what they are, but they're interesting.
And when you put down those machines that can videotape underneath, will that then be conclusive?
unidentified
will know this summer?
Well, scientists are always saying we need to do more research, but I think video cameras will tell us pretty conclusively whether it's some kind of weird geology or formations from hotbeds or something like that, or whether it's man-made.
What do the side-scan sonar images show at 2,200 feet down off the western tip of Cuba?
I have talked with a man who saw them.
He is Dr. Frank Muller-Carter, Caribbean expert and professor of oceanography in the College of Marine Science at the University of South Florida in St. Petersburg.
He knows Paulina Zielitsky and her husband, Paul Weinsweig, and has worked with them on the study of ocean currents and plankton.
That was the initial work that Paulina Zelitsky was doing last summer when her ship sonar showed peculiar images covering several kilometers nearly one half mile down on the ocean floor.
Here is Dr. Mueller Carter.
unidentified
It looks very interesting, and the fact that things have such sharp edges is very interesting, of course, and that's what's peaking so much interest.
What is unusual about seeing sharp images with using sonar?
unidentified
Well, there's not too many sharp edges that nature forms in such large scale and over such a wide area.
You may have a couple of rocks that may look square, but if you have so many square things strewn about in a large area, it would be a very, very unique geological formation, or it could be some man-made type of construction.
Now, that's the interesting part of it.
Unless we go there and look, we won't know exactly what it is.
So right now, all you can do is speculate, and I would not want to just say that these are man-made objects, because I have no clue what they really are.
Could you, with your own eyes, make out pyramidal type shapes?
unidentified
There are triangular type shapes and other types of geometrical forms.
But remember, the sonar is just a tool, and it's not a perfect tool.
So what you're looking at is, if you imagine what you would see with radars, if you have something that has a face pointing toward you, it will give you a reflection.
But then you have a shadow behind it.
And it depends on the angle that you're looking at.
These shadows could be long or short.
So shadows can be interpreted as angular features.
And so that you have to, it's very hard to interpret what is a shadow and what is not a shadow, what is a strong reflection and what isn't.
And it's the combination of these things that looks very interesting.
So yeah, you do see things that have straight edges, and that is a curious thing about it.
There's very few things that have straight edges that are natural at those large scales.
Did you talk with Paulina Zielitsky and Paul Weinzweig specifically about the shapes on the sonar images that they showed you being possibly related to whatever the ancient cultures were prior to the Mayan civilization?
unidentified
Well, it's sort of in a conversational form, not in any type of professional analysis form.
We looked at the images.
We were all very excited about what was apparent there.
But we're all just standing in front of a picture and, you know, like children just speculating about what it may be without any clue as to what it really is.
And that these straight edges that are both rectangular and somewhat pyramidal with straight edges are all over that several kilometers area.
unidentified
Yeah, but again, it could be a very unique geological formation.
We just don't know.
And until we go there and take a very close look, all it's going to be is just speculation.
And I would hope that nobody goes with the, you know, it's very romantic to think, oh, yeah, it may have been a lost civilization and ruins and all.
And we all would like to see something like that.
But I don't think that it's the right thing to do to speculate without actually going there.
And so I think it's great that there's an opportunity to actually go and take a closer look at that, because just from a geological point of view, it would be very interesting also.
Now, remember Yonaguni Arch, which is another site that Dr. Schock from Boston University went with the idea that they had some under water archaeology, and it's turned out now that most everyone's consensus is that Yonaguni is geomorphological.
So that was what he was making in the last point, but I hope that you and listeners got the emphasis that it is very unusual over several square kilometers to have straight edges that may be in both rectangular form and in triangular form, and that they're very large, very huge in size.
And now, what exactly can be seen in SideScan Sonar is very interesting and more complex than I expected.
And after the break, I have a brief interview with an underwater archaeologist who works with SideScansonar.
But before then, Art, I thought it would be especially important to conclude this report tonight, if I have the time, with Plato's famous dialogue with Timaeus and Critias, in which Critias describes the ancient tale about a great continent called Atlantis.
And I'm now quoting from Plato.
A mighty host which, starting from a distant point in the Atlantic Ocean, was insolently advancing to attack the whole of Europe and Asia to boot.
For the ocean there was at that time navigable, for in front of the mouth, which you Greeks call the pillars of Heracles or Hercules, there lay an island which was larger than Libya and Asia together.
And it was possible for the travelers of that time to cross from it to the other islands and from the islands to the whole of the continent.
And yonder is a real ocean, and the land surrounding it may most rightly be called, in the fullest and truest sense, a continent.
Now in this land of Atlantis, there existed a confederation of kings of great and marvelous power, which held sway over all of that island and over many other islands also and parts of the continent.
And moreover, of the lands here within the Straits, they ruled over Libya as far as Egypt and over Europe as far as Tuscany.
And then there is a description of warring and slavery and conflict between this Atlantis community and what is today known as Europe.
And it concludes, that at a time there occurred portentous earthquakes and floods, and one grievous day and night befell them, the Atlanteans, when the whole body of the warriors was swallowed up by the earth, and the island of Atlantis was swallowed up.
It would be the story of the century, or maybe many centuries, if there was an entire civilization, a continent that sank half mile below the Atlantic.
Headline here, in Cuban territorial waters.
That's something we didn't know before.
That's a headline, Cuban territorial waters.
New information.
Flash, flash.
We'll be right back.
unidentified
SHARE!
Now we take you back to the night of June 13, 2001 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Just before the break, I was about to finish this famous quote from Plato, and it was the paragraph, but at a later time there occurred portentous earthquakes and floods, and the island of Atlantis in like manner was swallowed up by the sea and vanished.
Wherefore also the ocean at that spot has now become impassable and unsearchable, being blocked up by the shoal mud which the island created as it settled down.
⁇ What can you see under the water with side-scan sonar?
Well, it operates by sending out sonar pulses from what's called a fish because it looks sort of like a torpedo as it's dragged behind a boat.
And the sonar goes out from either side of this fish and it hits rock surfaces and sand surfaces below and then reflects back to produce an image that archaeologists can then study to try to figure out what they are looking at on the ocean floor.
But it's not really so simple, as I learned today in a conversation with Michael Arbusnot, who is working toward his Ph.D. in anthropology and underwater archaeology at Florida State University.
Michael works with side-scanning sonar radar studying an ancient underwater campsite that goes back to the last ice age off the coast of Tallahassee.
This one is only about 14 feet underwater, whereas the Cuban one is 2,200 feet down, but side-scanning sonar is going to give approximately the same kind of image.
And at my website, earthfiles.com in the science section, you can see a side-scan sonar image that Michael provided of this underwater campsite, which shows how difficult the sonar images are to interpret, even to people who are experienced.
There are many complex factors, as Michael Arbuthnot explains.
unidentified
Because there are all kinds of factors that play into it.
Depth, the water conditions, the movements of the ship.
You can get similar readings from completely different types of materials underwater.
It doesn't distinguish between something that is, say, made of metal versus something that's made of stone.
And so even if you see something that you think stands out on a side-scan sonar, unless you can get down with video imaging cameras, you really don't know what you have.
unidentified
Absolutely.
It can be very deceiving.
I talked to you before a little bit about how at one point we thought we were looking at a cannon, and when we ended up diving the site, we saw that it was nothing more than some coral grove.
And if you took that same technology down 2,200 feet to that site off the western coast of Cuba, would the image look any different in the side scan double frequency sonar that they're using?
unidentified
Probably not.
I mean, it really kind of depends on what's down there.
You know, if there's something more to reflect the sonar, then yeah, it's going to look different.
You know, what we're looking at here is a site that's fairly flat.
I don't think there was anything more than about two or three feet high sitting up off of the fairly flat sandy sea bottom.
So according to certain initial reports from Cuba, there's all kinds of high relief, what they're calling structures.
So yeah, it would look different, but generally, double frequency side scan sonar is going to produce an image that's going to give you something generally similar to what we're seeing here.
So when you are using side-scan sonar imagery, it is not like a photograph?
unidentified
No, no, it's definitely not.
That's a misconception.
I mean, sometimes when you're looking at it, it looks as though you could interpret it like a photograph.
But then when you've looked at enough images over time, and you could look at the same location, the same coordinates from a side scan sonar images that are taken going, say, on a north-south track line versus an east-west track line over the exact same location, and you're going to get feedbacks that could look very different.
So the next step in all of this is going to be when do they actually go down with the cameras and as Mr. Weinsweig said, be a conclusive look with images.
And will it happen in July or August?
He says that Paulina Zelitsky has been having a lot of problems with equipment, is still down in Mexico as we speak tonight.
He told me that he was not certain when they would do this, but they are expecting it to happen this summer.
And this hypothesis is that whatever the island of Cuba is, it may have been a collision point of two or three different land masses at some point in the past.
That makes this whole issue of the Yucatan Gulf, Cuba, we know that that asteroid came slamming down into that water near the northern edge of the Yucatan 66, let's say, million years ago when the dinosaurs were here.
What all has transpired in that area?
And could the asteroid itself long ago have set up all kinds of fracture points?
We know that.
We know that there are fracture points all over in the Gulf because of that crater.
Is it possible that there were fracture points that ultimately could have led To some huge earthquake occurring and a big landmass falling to the bottom of the sea.
And the reason why I bring that up, I have learned in these dialogues that in Jamaica in the end of the 1600s, there was a big earthquake and there was a whole sort of village town that also fell off.
The whole thing went down.
It is now a tourist attraction because it's only a few meters underneath the water, but it is the same concept.
Linda, did you happen to follow by, to get an opportunity to hear any of the show between Robert W. Morgan and Bugs, a fellow named Bugs who shot two Bigfoot?
Not yet, but I plan to because who knows what the connection is between these tall hairy humanoids that are seen from the Himalayas to Laos and Vietnam to all over North America.
Yeah, I had this idea that we would be able to go and actually explore out in the jungles, and I have been warned by my British colleagues that we have to stay on the paths that have been established pretty much because we don't want to be blown up with grenades and unexploded mines.
Well, you know, another interesting thing, and I'd like to see if any of our listeners know, these tall hairy humanoids were reported during the Vietnam War in the late 1960s and the early 1970s by American GIs.
And more recently, villagers in central Laos have also reported seeing whatever these creatures are.
And if any of our coast listeners served in Vietnam and had any such encounters yourselves, or if you know anyone who talked about them, please get in touch with me as soon as you can because I have to leave at the end of next week.
Well, I'll talk to you about your rumors and I'll give out the email for others to get in touch with me at earthfiles at earthfiles.com.
That's just like my website, earthfiles.com, only the email is earthfiles at earthfiles.com.
My fax number is 215-491-9842.
That's 215-491-9842.
And for people who prefer to use the mail, it is Post Office Box 300 in Jameson, Pennsylvania, zip code 1-8929.
And sort of following up on this whole idea of a lot of military people who have information about a lot of unusual subjects, I'd like to let the Coast audience know that finally my two-volume book,
Glimpses of Other Realities, that does contain a large military section and does have a chapter about a man in Snohomish, Washington who watched some kind of a hairy primate come down out of the sky, out of an unidentified aerial craft to the ground.
And that this is, I think, myself, that the information and glimpses of other realities from the military and intelligence sources that I was able to get this information from, many of whom have passed on, that it's so important.
And I hope that listeners will go to earthfiles.com and see the information about these books and how to order them, because I think that there are so many facts that some of the people who have served in military and intelligence that are so important for the rest of us to know.
And unless some of us have tried to talk with them, off the record, this information would never see the light of day.
I'll be gone from next Friday until back in Philly on July 6th.
And you and I are going to try a live coast when I'm in Hong Kong, I think, on my day there of July 3rd, which I think is your night, Monday, July 2nd.
Well, I am very interested because to me in my life the most satisfying aspect of my profession has been to go into the field into actual places where human beings and unusual earth mysteries are being reported.
And it is only, I've found, putting my feet in the same land and being able to talk with people and watch their faces and have them do drawings and have them look at images in books.
And we're going to have a Laotian and Vietnamese translator with us all the time, that we may learn some things that maybe no one else has heard before.
And that is going to be a step.
And the second thing is that there was a very unusual footprint cast that was made of a very, very large primate-like foot in Vietnam.
And I've seen a photograph from 1982.
And the thing that really got me is I've seen a lot of the images that Jimmy Chilcott, the forensic police guy down in Texas, has taken, and what Jeff Meldrum, the anthropologist, has.
It's going to be interesting to see what they find in Texas.
But this photograph of this, this is in Vietnam print, has the longest, most elegant foot and toes.
It is so refined looking that it is almost shocking.
And that is the area that we are going to be going to.
And whether or not we will ever see anything, we will be talking with people who have seen it and a zoologist talking to us about what is there.
And I'm going to at least have that eerie Bigfoot sound that I've played in so many shows.
Well, it is, but, you know, the caution that they all say is remember Yonaguni.
Remember that we don't fully understand everything in our oceans.
And if this is natural, as Dr. Mohler Carter said, he said, if this is geological, we've got to see it because it's unlike anything then that has ever been.
I haven't got the will to try and fight against the moon tomorrow.
So I guess I'll disbelieve it that tomorrow will never come.
I said, night, I'm living in the forest of the dream.
I know the night is not how this would seem I must believe in something So I'll make myself believe it This night will never go Oh, the night is my world Every life.
Thinking about it.
In the night.
Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's program originally aired June 13th, 2001.
Headlines are, and I'll give you details as we get into open lines later tonight because my guest has got to be on an aircraft at 6 a.m., and he's on the East Coast right now, so that means it's 2 right now.
He's headed for a remote viewing conference here in Las Vegas, or over the hill from me in Las Vegas.
He is Stephen A. Schwartz, and he'll be up shortly.
But headlines, I guess at this hour, could include the following: The sunken city, so-called, off the coast of Cuba, appears to be in Cuban territorial waters.
The one big confirmation we got tonight, indeed, Cuban territorial waters.
Two, a promda is breaking news tonight that Mr. Gagarin's flight was not the first, that three Russian cosmonauts died trying to get to space before Gagarin.
They're just now admitting that.
It's impromptu.
This occurred in 1957, respectively, 1958 and 1959.
Headline.
Bugs.
Remember Bugs and the Bigfoot?
Well, I talked to Bugs some two or three hours ago, and Bugs' wife will not let him do it.
I repeat, Bugs' wife will not let him do it.
And I'm not surprised.
I, too, have experienced veto power.
And that's what this appears to be.
And I'm not surprised.
I'm not surprised.
So I have the map and the name and all the rest of it in a very secure location.
And that's, I guess, where it's going to have to stay until I said, look, if you ever change your mind, just say the word.
I mean, I've got attorneys who are prepared to represent this man, and I've been receiving all kinds of information from attorneys.
But right now, the word is Bug's wife won't let him.
And when you think about it, it shouldn't be a big surprise.
I now have the full story on NASA aiming to move Earth.
Actually, move Earth.
I've got full story.
It's up on the website now if you want to read the whole thing much more than I had just the other day.
It's a real story.
They actually do have plans to perhaps move Earth.
Somebody sent me an email.
No message body at all.
It just says, subject, NASA, three exclamation points.
Then ha ha ha.
Hey, Moe.
You know, they really do have these plans.
So we'll try and get to that and a lot more when we get to open lines.
In the meantime, a remote viewer that we have never spoken with before named Stephen Schwartz is coming up in a moment.
unidentified
stay right where you are Looking for the truth?
You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
I think now, as we look back, we can probably say with pretty good certainty that some people in government might have been aware of what was going on and they turned their cheek the other way just to let it happen.
I also believe that some bigger groups got involved with al-Qaeda to do what they did on that horrible day.
This wasn't just a small group of people who came in and did their thing.
There was a much bigger picture there.
And if you see the events that have unfolded since this tragedy occurred, how we've lost rights, how we used it to go in Afghanistan and Iraq, and how it has really not stopped.
Because it's going to continue.
We're going to have more and more episodes and more and more involvement in other countries.
And just mark my word, this planet is going through an incredible change.
And thank God we've got you here to talk with us about it.
Now we take you back to the night of June 13, 2001, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Art Bell Now, Stephen A. Schwartz has researched consciousness and extraordinary human performance for more than 25 years, particularly creativity, remote viewing, healing, and the effects of the anomalous on culture.
He is the author of The Engineering of Psy Trilogy, PSI Trilogy, The Secret Vaults of Time, The Alexandria Project, and Mind Rover, Explorations with Remote Viewing.
Some interesting titles.
That's a three-volume set, by the way, that explores the use of remote viewing in archaeology.
He'll be speaking at the 2001 International Remote Viewing Association Conference in Las Vegas between June 14th and 18th at the Texas Station Hotel.
He'll be talking about his work in Egypt, which resulted in the discovery of Cleopatra's palace, Mark Antony's Timonium, and ruins of the Lighthouse of the Pharaohs, one of the seven wonders of the ancient world.
Instead of jumping ahead, let me ask you, what part did you have in the original remote viewing group, if any, the original U.S. government CIA-funded remote viewing group?
I had been in government as the special assistant to the Chief of Naval Operations, and I have had a long-term interest in remote viewing, although I didn't even know that anybody else called it or knew anything about it.
I got into this from an entirely different way, and after I had set up a research lab, I was approached by the government, but I would not do classified research on extraordinary human functioning because I felt and feel that it was very important that anything that was discovered be made immediately available to people because I think that this kind of research,
beyond whatever it does at the sort of specifics of an experiment, is really telling us a great deal about what it means to be a human being and what our capabilities are.
And I just did not approve of and didn't want to be associated with work that was classified and wouldn't be available to people.
I was invited to speak at the Army War College, and it was a sort of presentation.
Then I was approached by a, I guess he was a brigadier at that point, general.
And they wanted, you know, they just basically was very general and they knew I had held clearances before and so I had given this briefing and they came up and said, would you be interested in this?
And, you know, we could fund this.
And I just didn't want to do it.
And the people that I was working with, the viewers and the other scientists that were part of the team, they didn't want to do it either.
Well, before, I guess I started really doing this very seriously about 1968.
I wrote the first article about some of the discoveries off of Bimini, and I had been very interested in the Edgar Casey material and had gotten into it that way, and then got interested in archaeology because it provided an unimpeachable demonstration of these abilities because the stuff's either there or it's not there.
You know, you cut through an awful lot of criticism and debate and just pontificating.
If somebody tells you where something is and you go find it and everybody agrees beforehand that no one knew where it was, if you can do that over and over again, it just can't be luck.
Well, when I had been in the Navy, when I had been working in the Navy, across my desk came a classified document about some experiments that had been done by academician Leonid Vasilyev in the Soviet Union.
And he being a good Marxist, or at least officially being a good Marxist, had taken the position that if the psychic existed, that it had to be some kind of radio wave.
And so over a period of time, he had carried out a series of experiments in which he had gradually shielded people from various parts of the electromagnetic spectrum.
That's basically a kind of screened room where radio waves are blocked.
He eventually ended up putting them down into caverns and deep mine shafts trying to shield against that.
And he published a paper in which he, a series of papers, but one particularly, that I saw that had been translated.
And he said that if psi was going to be a radio wave, which he wanted it to be, the only thing it could possibly be would be ELF, extreme low frequency electromagnetic radiation.
And so he said the only way you could really test against that would be to put a person in some sort of vessel and lower them down into the sea because seawater would provide, it was the only thing that would provide the shielding and he didn't have access to a submarine.
So I read this, and I knew immediately that the government had just spent about $125 million in a project to explore exactly how much ELF would penetrate into seawater because they wanted to use it to talk to the boomers, the missile submarines.
And when they submerge, they can't come up to the surface to put up an antenna because the overflying satellites would catch it.
And they can't even get very close because they would leave a thermal signature.
So the only way they could do it was ELF.
And they discovered that you could only get a very little bit of information done.
This was shown in the Red October movie.
So what they got to was basically they would just transmit a short number and then there would be a book aboard the submarine and the captain would look at it and one two three would be target Moscow.
I mean they couldn't get a whole message so they could it was sort of like a return to the 18th century with signal flags where you had to get it extremely abbreviated.
But in any case the Project Sanguine this was called and Project Sanguine had established that you had to get down to about 300 feet and at that point you really were and particularly in terms of a psychic experiment you really would be okay.
So I read this and I called up Hyman Rickover who was the father of the nuclear navy and asked him to come over to see him.
I knew him slightly.
We lived near one another and at one point I was going to write a biography of him.
I went over to see him and of course people don't remember him so well now but in that time he was really the most fearsome naval or military figure in the country.
And no officer could serve aboard a nuclear craft without his personal approval.
So I went over to see him and I explained to him what I wanted to do, which was to put myself and a couple of psychics, remote viewing as a word, a term didn't exist yet, to see if I could do a series of experiments.
And he said, well, let me think about it.
And about a week later, he called me up and said, look, this is an interesting idea, but if the media ever gets hold of it, it's just going to cause a lot of problems, and this isn't going to happen.
And so that was the end of it.
I thought, well, nobody will ever do this experiment.
But then two friends of mine, Don Walsh, who had made the deepest dive in history in the Mariana's Trench, and Don Keech, who had found the hydrogen bomb that had been lost off of Spain, they went out and took over the Institute of Marine and Coastal Studies at the University of Southern California.
And I was in Tucson writing, I left the government, moved out of Washington, I was writing a book, my first book, The Secret Vaults of Time, about the previous centuries' worth of research that had used what at that point I was calling remote sensing in an archaeological setting.
And I got a call from one of them, and they said, you know, if you'll come out to L.A., we'll give you a submarine.
Everybody knew I was interested in this and teased me about it.
They said, we'll give you a submarine for three days, which was a very big deal because it costs a lot of money to have a submarine.
So they said, we've got a little research submersible called the Taurus that's coming down from Canada, and she's going to be here doing her sea trials.
And once she gets certified, she'll stay on for a few weeks.
And so if you'd like to do an experiment, we'll let you do it.
And they had had a, you know, they were skeptical, extremely skeptical, but they were also interested, and they knew me.
We'd worked together for a long time.
And so I went out to L.A. and I had just finished The Secret Vaults of Time.
And in the course of writing this book, I had begun to figure out how I thought remote sensing, remote viewing, could really be used in a practical way because I was interested in the argument about whether it existed or not just isn't much of an argument, I didn't think, anymore.
And the real question was, okay, if it exists, what can you do with it?
So I approached it as a kind of engineering problem.
I'll tell you what, we're at the bottom of the hour.
So let's hold that for when we get back.
I want to find out exactly what happened.
That's a wild thought that you could shield against a PSI of any sort.
I want to know how it came out.
I wonder why he confined his thoughts to the fact that it could only be ELF.
I wonder why.
We'll ask about that, too.
I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified
You're listening to Mark Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 13, 2001.
I'm going to die on the day that way.
Jenny was me.
She always smiled for people she needed.
On trouble is dry.
I don't know the way you look you're right.
You're just blue.
The moon is blue.
I just don't wait to get to you.
Where are those happy days faces?
so hard to find.
Whatever happened I wish I understood It's just the face of life It's just the face of the moon Oh when you're near me darling Can't you hear me?
I tried to reach for you, but you have noticed your mind.
It's so it The love you gave me Nothing left to save me It's so it When you're cold How can I even try to go on?
When you're cold So I try How can I carry on?
You seem so far away Though you were standing near You made me feel alive But something died like this I really tried to make it out How can I share on you with you?
What happened to our love?
It used to be What happened to our love It used to be you're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an oncore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 13, 2001.
And Stephen may not have been in the military program, but he might as well have been, because certainly all the spooks and ex-spooks and people that I know that are heavyweights know him.
In fact, he comes recommended by John Alexander, I'm sure a mutual friend, Stephen.
The first part was to see whether psi was a radio phenomenon.
And the second part was to see whether it was possible using this technique that I had designed for remote viewers to locate a previously unknown wreck on the sea floor.
And the reason on the sea floor was that there was no possibility, if you get beyond a certain depth, that anybody could have snuck out in the night and cheated, you know.
It was possible to ascertain whether the site was previously known or not.
So I sent out a chart of a standard C chart prior to doing the experiment to seven people.
And they sent back, each of them marked their own chart.
And lo and behold, exactly as I had hoped in the methodology I was using, I put the maps on a light table and the circles overlapped.
And so I said to the people at the Institute, here's where I want to go.
And they said, well, we'll drop a pinger, a radio homing device, directly over that spot so that there won't be any chance that you've stumbled across something else.
You'll just go to that one spot.
And we went down.
We had received from the remote viewers.
I describe all this, by the way, in the Mind Rover book.
And we made a film out of this, in fact, which you still see on the A ⁇ E channel or the History Channel.
But we dropped the Pinger and we had the descriptions, including a description of a large granite block, about five feet by four feet by seven feet, that Hella Hammett had described.
And so we went in, we got into the submersible and we went down.
First we did the experiments to see whether psi was a radio wave.
And so I asked the guys from SRI, who were friends of mine, if they would be the outbound persons, the outbound people, the targets for the experiment.
Ingo Swan and Hella Hammett, who were very well known and very well thought of remote viewers.
We put each of them on independently, and then we went down to about 300 feet.
Because of Project Sanguine, we knew what the penetration rate was.
And we asked them, we also knew what the capacity of the brain to serve as a radio broadcast was and also how much information it processes.
So we knew that if they were successful at this experiment, given that we knew what the ELF penetration was, given that we knew what the brain's electric potential was, given that we knew what the rate of processing was, if this thing worked, there was no way that it could be done as a radio phenomenon.
And we had a time-coordinated arrangement with the guys up in Northern California.
This was off of Sata Catalina Island off the coast of Los Angeles.
And at the appointed time, they had a random number generator pick a target and they went out there and then we had the we went down and we at a fixed time we took a description from each of the remote viewers.
Hella went on the first dive, Ingo went on the second dive.
And actually Ingo went on the first, Hella on the second.
And in the case of Ingo, for instance, he said, well, they're in a kind of shopping mall and it's got red tile and there's this big wheel that turns around in the middle of this thing and they're looking in windows shopping.
And in fact, they were at the Red Mill Shopping Center.
And then we came up and he went off and Hella got on board and we went down again and she said, well, I feel like they're hiding in a big tree on the edge of a precipice.
I had another idea, because of the codes that had worked out with Sanguin.
I wanted to see whether it was possible to do essentially a kind of substitution like that and so created a technique called associated remote viewing, which of course has now been used by people all over the country, all over the world.
And the first experiment we did to try this, when we tried this out about the radio waves, we said, well, let's assume that that description represented a particular message that we were trying to get across.
And so that experiment with DeepQuest was the first associated remote viewing experiment that had ever been conducted.
And it was an idea that I had had about, because I knew from some preliminary work that I had done, that it was very difficult for people to get numbers at remote viewing and that sort of thing, names.
I mean, sometimes it happens, but it's unusual.
Whereas people are very good at describing images.
And so if you substitute a message for an image, then by association, you would be able to communicate.
So obviously then we conclude that remote viewing, whatever it uses, it is not associated with radio or ELF or anything like that, nor limited by that much ocean or anything else, apparently, for that matter.
Well, my own view is that we are all workstations on the cosmic internet by analogy.
You know, I mean, every generation has its analogy.
When I was growing up, it was all electromechanical.
And you remember pictures in the World Book of the man and his sort of cut away, and you could see down in the stomach people were shoveling coal.
So today we're in computers, so I would use a computer analogy, and I would say that I think we are all connected in a network of life, that all living things have consciousness, they are all linked in with this, and that we both inform and are informed by this information channel that we have.
What the channel is, I can't tell you.
Clearly, there is an aspect of human consciousness that exists outside of time-space.
It doesn't make any difference whether you shield people or you don't shield people.
It doesn't make any difference whether you ask them to go forward in time or backward in time.
It doesn't make any difference if you ask them to describe something that's a foot away or 10,000 miles away.
Clearly, this information channel to which we all seem to be linked gives us information and we also give it information.
I mean, did Benjamin Franklin anticipate radio waves, for instance?
No.
I mean, it wouldn't have made any sense if you'd said to him, I've got this little box, and inside of it, when you look at the little box, there are pictures of people that are thousands of miles away.
Okay, let me quickly read you something because I want you to understand what we're talking about.
This is a Reuters story, and you may have heard it, but here's part of it.
Most intriguingly, researchers using sonar equipment have discovered a depth of 2,200 feet, a huge land plateau with clear images of what appears to be urban development, partly covered by sand.
From above, the shapes resemble pyramids, roads, and buildings.
ADC, the company, is excited but reluctant to speculate until a joint investigation with the Cuban Academy of Sciences and the U.S. National Geographic Society takes place early this summer.
We have now confirmed with the National Geographic they are proceeding with this, by the way.
Continuing, quote, it is stunning.
This is Ms. Zelitsky.
It is stunning.
What we see in our high-resolution sonar images are limitless rolling white sand plains.
And in the middle of this beautiful White sand.
There are clear, man-made, large-size architectural designs.
It looks like when you fly over an urban development in a plane, you see highways, tunnels, and buildings, Zelitsky said.
This is off the coast of Havana, or Cuba, rather, and we've learned tonight it's within Cuban territorial waters.
Well, you could organize a team of remote viewers and remote view it.
Yes, I mean, we know that remote viewing will provide information.
I mean, I've published papers on this, and in fact, the Mind Rover book and the Alexandria Project, I mean, basically are comparisons between electronic remote sensing and remote viewing.
And remote viewing delivers the goods within its limitations.
Well, these would be just the kind of goods that remote viewing loves.
And these are allegedly just off the coast of Cuba, and they'll be videotaped by deep-sea submersibles in either July or August, sometime during the summer.
So it sure would be an interesting project to engage in sometime prior to that occurrence, wouldn't it?
But we also can agree that no one knows precisely, except these guys who've had a preliminary look, what this stuff is.
Therefore, it would be a very interesting precognitive remote viewing experiment if your listeners, and I need to think with you a little bit about how this could get organized, but it can be done.
We've done mass tests through Omni magazine in the past.
But your viewers could provide a remote viewing impression of what they think would be found, and we'd need to target it so that it didn't have to be over the whole area.
We'd have to put like a longitude and latitude coordinate on it.
The most recent information we have as of tonight, according to Ms. Linsky's husband, is that it is indeed in Cuban territorial waters, off which coast and at what longitude, latitude, we don't know.
I think what Well, how would you advise listeners?
In other words, would I have them, for example, send in, oh, I don't know, you could render on a computer and you could put a drawing of what you think you see below the sea there at that target, I suppose, and then have my listeners send all of that in prior to the filming in the summer.
You'd set up a group that would set up a judging protocol to compare what the viewers described with what actually was discovered.
And my guess is from past experience, I know from a number of experiments that we've done in Jamaica, the experiments we did in Egypt that I'm going to talk about at the IRVA conference, that the seawater itself is not a problem.
And I would suspect that, based on past experience, that we would get very specific testable information.
Well, you know, I'm told that the last ice age might account for, oh, 300 feet perhaps in change of ocean levels, but for something to be down 2,200 feet...
That's almost a half mile, and I'm told that would represent many, many millions of years.
And that convinced me and impressed all of the research scientists that were working with me on this thing, all the USC scientists who were involved.
It had a big impact.
When we photographed that block, we had a big impact.
But anyway, out of that, I then thought, well, let's go do something with this technique to solve a problem that everybody acknowledges that will be a really interesting problem.
And I was drawn to Alexandria because Alexandria, Egypt, it's not the Pharaonic period.
It was a city founded by Alexander the Great, and it really represents a blend of the East and West, or the intuition and the intellectual, any of the dualities which, if you understand it properly, is really a unity.
So I thought it was a perfect place to do it.
Everybody acknowledged that no one knew where Alexander the Great's tomb was.
They didn't know where the library was.
They didn't know where Cleopatra's Palace was.
I mean, everything about it was just perfect, just like the Cuban discoveries, it was just perfect.
So I put together a team of researchers from five universities and institutions.
All right, Stephen, we're at the top of the hour, so we'll bite into this hard when we get back.
Stephen A. Schwartz is my guest, and when we get back, we'll find out what he did, when he did it, and what it resulted in in Egypt, even though we certainly already know.
Wild stuff.
I'm Art Bell.
unidentified
This is Coast to Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 13, 2001.
What I have found, I have been only care of what I am.
It's all clear to me now.
My heart is on fire.
I'm old like a...
Explanation should I tell you that you came in the air of the cat?
She doesn't give you time for questions as she locks up your arm in her.
And you follow till you're a sense of which direction completely disappears.
By the blue tarp walls near the market stalls, there's a hint in there she leads you to.
These days she says I feel my life just like a river running through the air of the cat.
listening to Arkbell somewhere in time tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 13th 2001 There's something very appropriate about you the cat when you're about to talk about Egypt Cats are very Egyptian look at them carefully fact you don't even really have to look carefully They're just plain very Egyptian Egypt is a very strange place that all of you must get to if you have the time and inclination in your life.
I was there and I can tell you it's uh it's inexplicable.
It's just something that you have to experience.
unidentified
get your ticket anyway steven a schwartz will be right back you Coast at Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
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Now we take you back to the night of June 13, 2001, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
I had my tour by the man who runs the entire Giza Plateau, Zahi Hawass.
And he took me places where other people don't get to go.
It was remarkable and just remarkable.
And there's no way to explain it.
You've got to see it.
Dr. Hawass showed me how the stones could have been split to make the pyramids.
And indeed, it can be down on the ground.
They can split these big five-ton rocks.
However, when it came time, and he's a real well-grounded individual, not given to flights of fancy, when it came to explaining how the blocks, particularly the big ones, were put in place, he didn't have a clue and said so.
Well, they have done a line of blocks to test the idea.
So there is a way it could have been done.
They now think, or at least the last thing I read, was a paper about six or eight months ago, and that was arguing that it actually only took about 10,000 people instead of hundreds of thousands.
And they've got the dating down pretty solidly now.
So I think we know more about this than is generally recognized.
And the funny thing is that a lot of stuff that people think of as sort of weird stuff doesn't turn out really to hold up very well when science looks at it.
But that doesn't mean that there's not a lot of other weird stuff that really is extraordinary and for which there is just absolutely no explanation.
I mean, Sai, we were talking about that earlier, is a good example of that.
There's no question that remote viewers have the capacity to describe persons, places, and events from which they're shielded by time or space.
But how they do it, we don't know any more about it.
In fact, everything we know about psychic functioning, you could write on the back of an envelope.
I sent out a by that point, I had worked out a way to make the charts so that all the colors of the maps were taken out.
I made them look like blueprints so there was nothing to cue anybody.
And I asked people to locate it, and they did.
And I asked Harold Edgerton at MIT, who had invented SideScan Sonar, to come over and do the SideScan Sonar work for us to compare the results of SideScan with remote viewing.
And the SideScan was not able to operate because very well, there was so much particulate matter, so much stuff in the water that the signal was diffused.
But the remote viewers were just spot on.
And in fact, the French are now doing these excavations.
I was not able to do the excavations at the time because they turned on the sewage plant and raw sewage flooded the harbor.
But I have in the Alexandria project, which has just been reissued with all of this new information.
You can get it off of my website, which is on your website, www.stephaneschwartz.com.
But I have a map of the French discoveries and our discoveries 16 years earlier.
And it's astonishing.
It's just point for point.
Remote viewing, when it is used properly, when it is analyzed property, has the capacity to locate stuff very specifically.
George McMullen, for instance, a Canadian who is one of the greatest archaeological remote viewers we've ever known about, was able to locate little round tiles an inch and a quarter across out of 1,500 square miles, and that's pretty good targeting.
But the truth of the matter is, based on everything we know, is that this is a normal human ability.
I suspect actually all living beings have this connection with the sort of cosmic internet.
And what we're really doing with remote viewing is surfacing into conscious awareness a signal of information, an information channel, if you will, which you and I and every other living being on the planet is processing all the time.
But it occurs at a below conscious level, so we're not aware of it.
And what you do with remote viewing is just bring it up to the surface.
There are some experiments that were done by a wonderful researcher named Helmut Schmidt, which suggests that it is possible to go back into the past when it was the present and change it from the future.
All right, I interview frequently Dr. Michio Kaku, Professor Kaku, and he suggested that he believes time travel indeed will be possible one day, and that if you were to go back in time and change something, the classic case of killing your grandfather or whatever,
that indeed what would happen would be, and you know they're now talking about many, many dimensions, that what you would in effect do is create a new universe, a universe in which the change you had affected would play out in another parallel universe.
I do know that our knowledge of what consciousness really is and what it means to be a human being, although considerably advanced in some ways, hasn't really changed very much from the Alexandrian philosophers, for instance.
I mean, you can read in early Greek philosophy, Pythagoras or the name's gone out of my head right now, but the discussion of the idea of as above,
so below, the idea of interconnectedness of all life, all this sort of stuff that all of the, for instance, Eastern medical systems are based on, this idea of this sort of energetic, I don't think it's energy as the word is typically meant in Physics, but clearly this sense of life being connected, at least to me, looking at the evidence, we're talking about evidence here, not speculation.
If you look at the therapeutic intent research that's being done at medical centers, for instance, the idea that the consciousness of one person can have an effect on another, the idea of remote viewing, the ability to describe persons or events at a distance or in time.
I mean, all of these things, when you see them collectively together, suggest to us that we need to alter our paradigm of how the world works.
And it's very painful because it means that a lot of things are going to be sacrificed and that a lot of people's careers who have a lot invested in the physical materialist worldview are going to suddenly discover as people who used to teach phrenology or people who were teaching, I don't know, phrenology is a good one, the study of the head, the idea, they're going to suddenly be out of work.
I think there's very interesting evidence that consciousness survives physical death.
I don't know that I would see it in terms of remote viewing, but for instance, the near-death experiences of children that Wayne Morris was studying up in Oregon, you know, the reality, I mean, these are children that couldn't possibly know what we think about near-death studies.
You know, they're not reading yet.
And the descriptions that they give sound, first of all, like the descriptions adults give.
I need to qualify it by saying that a number of my remote viewers, when we take them out on site, I'm going to get into this on my talk on Saturday, but a number of them, when you get them out on site, they sort of have to penetrate through layers of time.
And when they move through those layers of time, they oftentimes encounter personalities that existed at that point.
I was out with George one day in the middle of Alexandria, which is a great big city.
And we were walking along, and all of a sudden his body contorted over, and you can see it in the film.
I mean, he was just, clearly, I thought he was having a heart attack or something.
And I said, George, you know, what's going on?
And he said, oh, my God, they're torturing the children.
And I thought, children?
You know, there was nothing.
We were in the middle of this city.
And so I finally, I just didn't know what to do.
And I said, well, go earlier, George.
Go earlier.
And then he kind of cleared.
And he said, oh, it doesn't exist yet.
It doesn't exist yet.
I'm okay.
Later on, we found that, in fact, there had been a prison there and that children were at one point prisoners and that they were tortured.
This all came out of the straight archaeological, historical stuff, but at the time we didn't know anything about that.
So I think that there is a linkage there, but we don't really know very much about it.
I have never had an encounter with a non-human entity.
I have had encounters with what I think are discarnate, that is, people who were not corporeal at that particular point.
But I have never, and I have some thoughts about it, but I have never personally had an encounter with an alien, nor have any of my remote viewers per se.
Although at one time, we did do, actually that isn't strictly true, we did do a probe.
I just was remembering this.
I forgot all about this.
We did an experiment.
We were hired by a group of physicists to locate a flying saucer.
But what I can tell you is I don't know that it's accurate.
What I said about the 50% thing is that based on the fact that there is a high level of accuracy, I suspect something is there, but what it is, I don't know.
It was in an area where they could not obtain permission to go.
And so we were never able to test the idea.
The hypothesis remains.
I still do have the information.
And I think, you know, I can, you've just put it in my mind again, I haven't thought about this in some years, to go back to those guys and see if they would give me permission to release the information and see if it could be followed up.
I absolutely couldn't let it get away, and that's why I'm late for my break.
I was sitting there negotiating a good date with him because he was just so incredibly interesting.
So, July 6th, we'll have Stephen A. Schwartz back.
In the meantime, if you would like to attend what's going to be obviously an incredible conference, the 2001 International Remote Viewing Association Conference in Las Vegas from June 14th through the 18th, there is a number you can call.
It's a toll-free number, and Stephen will be back when he'll have more time.
It seemed like a no-brainer, so I sat here sort of negotiating the date and blowing away my break.
Oh well.
unidentified
Oh well.
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Looking for the truth?
You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
They know their whole new world order is inches from going up in flames, so they're afraid of the awakening, and they know that their collapse is about to take place because we've been asleep at the switch, and we've let incredibly corrupt interests take control of our society.
unidentified
Now we take you back to the night of June 13, 2001, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
The man so fascinated me that I had to nail him down, and I guess that's what it took.
All right.
We're going to go into open lines.
There are a few things that I would like to call to your attention before we do.
Number one, just prior to showtime, about an hour before showtime, I called Bugs.
Bigfoot Bugs.
And the answer is no.
The answer is his wife will not let him.
And I can't really say that I blame her.
And I really thought that a few days of careful consideration rather than the emotional moment of the program last was the time to do that.
And I'm very, very glad I waited because there are a lot of very serious issues at stake here.
And I'm sure not the one to make the decision.
Only bugs could make that and or be influenced to make it.
And I perfectly well understand the veto power of woman, the veto power of wife, for I too have experienced it with even lesser matters like jumping out of airplanes and going hang lighting and matters like that.
I personally experienced the feminine veto.
So I know how it goes and I don't know where the story is going.
I told him at the end of the conversation, if you change your mind, if there's new thinking on it, you know who to call.
In the meantime, I've got your back and I do bugs.
You know that.
The map, the information is all sealed and unavailable to any human being until you say so.
The Pravda site in Russia, the Pravda, you know, they're the big newspaper outlet in Moscow, in Russia, and they are leading a story tonight that is amazing.
Not a surprise, but kind of amazing.
It reads, as 40 years have passed since Gagarin's flight, new sensational details of this event were disclosed.
Gagarin was not the first man to fly to space.
Three Soviet pilots died in attempts to conquer space before Gagarin's famous spaceflight.
According to Mikhail Rudenko, senior engineer experimenter with Experimental Design Office at, and they actually give the location, on Thursday, said that spacecraft with pilots Leroshenkov, Shiborin, and Mitov at the controls were launched from the Kapistanyar Cosmodrome in 1957, 1958, and 1959.
All three pilots died during the flights, and their names were never officially published.
This is all breaking tonight.
He explained that all of these pilots took part in so-called subordinate orbital flights.
In other words, their goal was not to orbit around the Earth, which Gagarin later did do, but rather make a parabola-shaped flight.
The cosmonauts were to reach space heights in the highest point of such an orbit, then return to the Earth.
According to his information, the pilots were regular test pilots who had not had any special training, according to Interfax.
Obviously, after such a series of tragic launches, the project managers decided to cardinally change the program and approach the training of cosmonauts much more seriously in order to create a cosmonaut detachment.
Anyway, there you have it.
Three died before one made it.
And in noting that, the kind of flight they were taking is very much like the man in Oregon that we have talked to who plans to launch himself, the rocket man, in May, I believe, of next year.
And that date has, by the way, become hardened.
And I will go to that launch if he really does do it.
But he should bear in mind, the Russians, with all they could do, killed three before they did it.
Now, once again, I will be going on vacation.
I want to remind the audience, on the 21st of June, I'll be taking my monster RV and barreling down various highways.
During that time, I've been asked again and again, will I use a CB handle?
Yes.
Millennium Master.
Millennium Master will be the one.
So if you hear that screeching on CB on the way, why you'll know it's me.
Item two, yesterday a caller asked for photographs of the RV.
They're up on the website right now.
In fact, they were up on the website five minutes, maybe four minutes after the caller asked for them yesterday because we had them.
All we had to do was put a pointer to them and Keith did it like that.
Now, I want to read you the entire NASA aims to move Earth story.
I mean, you've got to hear this to believe it.
I now have the long form story.
Entitled, NASA Aims to Move Earth.
Scientists have found an unusual way to prevent our planet from overheating.
Move it to a cooler spot.
All you have to do is hurtle a few comets at Earth, and its orbit will be altered.
Our world will then be sent spinning into a safer, colder part of the solar system.
This startling idea of improving our interplanetary neighborhood is the brainchild of a group of NASA engineers and American astronomers who say their plan could add another 6 billion years to the useful lifetime of our planet, effectively doubling its working life.
The technology is not all that far-fetched, said Dr. Greg Laughlin of the NASA Ames Research Center in California.
It involves the same techniques that people now suggest could be used to deflect asteroids or comets heading toward Earth.
We don't need raw power to move Earth.
We just require delicacy of planning and maneuvering.
The plan put forward by Dr. Laughlin and his colleagues involves carefully directing a comet or an asteroid so that it sweeps close past our planet and transfers some of its gravitational energy to Earth.
Earth's orbital speed would increase as a result and we would move to a higher orbit away from the Sun.
Engineers would then direct their comet so that it passed close to Jupiter or Saturn where the reverse process would occur.
It would pick up energy from one of these giant planets.
Later, its orbit would bring it back to Earth and the process would be repeated.
Now, let me go on.
Here's where it goes on from what I had yesterday.
In the short term, the plan provides an ideal solution to global warming.
Although the team was actually concerned with a more drastic danger, the Sun is destined to heat up in about a billion years and so seriously compromise our biosphere by frying us.
Hence, the group's decision to try to save Earth.
All you have to do is strap a chemical rocket to an asteroid or a comet and then fire it at just the right time, added Laughlin.
It is basic rocket science.
The plan has one or two worrying aspects, however.
For a start, space engineers would have to be very careful about how they directed their asteroid or comet towards Earth.
The slightest miscalculation in orbit could fire it straight at Earth, with rather devastating consequences.
It is a point acknowledged by the group.
The collision of a 100-kilometer diameter object with Earth at cosmic velocity would sterilize the biosphere, most effectively, at least to the level of bacteria.
They state all this in a paper in Astrophysics and Space Science.
The danger cannot be overemphasized.
So if I'm reading this correctly, everything down to bacteria would be gone if they made a very slight error.
It is a point acknowledged by the group.
They also are vexing a bit about the question of our moon.
Anybody forget that one?
As the current issue of Scientific American points out, if Earth was pushed out of its current position, it is, quote, most likely the moon would be stripped away from the Earth, end quote, radically upsetting our planet's climate, to say the least.
These criticisms are accepted by the scientists.
Our investigation has shown just how delicately Earth is poised within the solar system.
Nevertheless, our work has practical implications.
Our calculations show that to get Earth to a safer, distant orbit, it would have to pass through some unstable zones and would need careful nurturing and nudging.
Any alien astronomers observing our solar system would know that something odd had occurred and they would realize an intelligent life form was responsible.
And the same goes for us.
When we look at other solar systems and detect planets about other suns, which we are now beginning to do, we may see that planet moving has already occurred.
It would give us first evidence of the handiwork of extra-terrestrial beings.
And as I said earlier, I had one emailer responding to the first part of the article before he heard about how careful the calculations would have to be, before he heard, no doubt, tonight, that our moon would be stripped away as a consequence of this.
He simply wrote in the header line, NASA, three exclamation points, ha, ha, ha, hey, mo.
Hey, mo.
So, I don't know.
The global warming solution would probably be not very many years out.
The sun heating to the point that we would have to move the planet, well, that's a billion years out, so no problem.
But the global warming part of it could mean that we would have to make this move, well, pretty soon, actually.
And I wonder how you all feel about changing neighborhoods.
And wouldn't that be wild to look at the night sky, and it wouldn't be the same old night sky anymore.
As Earth moved, quite clearly, our position toward everything and our relationship to everything would change.
So the night sky would kind of go cattywampus.
The way the sun hit the earth would be cattywampus.
Everything would be cattywampus as we moved.
Can you imagine that?
Even in your wildest dreams, can you imagine that?
Weekend flooding in labs beneath the Texas Medical Center killed more than 30,000 animals and destroyed what one official called an incalculable amount of scientific research.
Rising water in medical center basements and local universities wiped out federally funded research worth millions of dollars.
Meticulously kept computer data were fried into electronic oblivion and some students lost years worth of their doctoral work.
That's part of what went on in Houston.
The weather, folks, I'm telling you the weather.
At this time of year, where I live, not too far from Death Valley, in the little town of Prump, Nevada, in Nye County.
Everybody asked me, what is this kingdom of Nye?
It's NYE Nye County, Nevada.
I believe that we are the largest county in the United States, by the way.
And so the kingdom of Nye naturally is referring to Nye County, where at this moment it is 62.6 degrees.
Now let me tell you a little bit about where I live.
Normally by mid-June, the temperatures here should probably be approaching the 110 mark.
At night, the temperatures probably shouldn't be going below about 90 degrees.
And as I just mentioned to you, it is now 62.6.
We are having an extremely, extremely odd spring here.
In other areas of the country, the violent weather has been incredible and is going on at this hour.
The plain states are getting hammered.
Houston was just hammered with something that was almost inexplicable for the weather people.
The weather is in fact getting scary.
There can no longer be any doubt about that, only about where it's going and how drastic it's all going to get.
You heard Linda Mottenhow refer to the North Atlantic drift.
And I think she was probably referring to the possible changes that could occur rather radically and quickly for Europe should something in the drift change.
As we speculated about in the book, The Coming Global Superstorm.
So, the weather's getting pretty strange out there, folks, and we're all going to keep a close eye on it.
All right, all of that said, I wanted to get all of that out.
And I've got a little bit more, but we'll just sort of hold it and take at least one call before the break.
Somehow, so many times when you get these movies, you get something in real life to go with it.
So I'm surprised, but I'm not surprised.
And you know what?
I asked Linda Howe at the end of the interview to at least approach our Navy.
I mean, over the years of the Cold War, and even since then, you know damn well that our Navy has explored the Cuban territorial waters really carefully, and they know what's there.
If anybody would know, our Navy would know, right?
I was just reading a short story of his a few weeks ago and just rung a bell, a story about Sunken City and elder gods dwelling at the bottom of the ocean and all sorts of nasty things and doing.
I thought, you know, well, this is being 2,200 feet under the water for a reason, and are we better off?
Well, you know, they do so many projects and very interesting projects that, yes, I guess it could happen.
I mean, here's a guy who uncovered stuff in Egypt.
Here's a guy who went in a submarine more than 300 feet down to conduct an experiment.
I mean, he's been at it for years.
So, yeah, he could have, you know.
unidentified
Yeah, you just, maybe I'm trying to connect it to those, I think, Targ and the other guy you had on when you asked him when that big pregnant pause when you asked him.
I was taping the show, and I asked him about the shadow people, but I asked him more specifically about these rogue beings.
And he, I mean, you talk about a pregnant pause on that one.
Then he said, well, that's connected with the UFO, and I can't talk about that right now.
It just kind of makes your ears go up, but everybody hesitates on that, in that group of remote, that elite group, that they seem to pause on that all the time.
Wondering if you could ever get a guest on that could possibly discuss stuff like the hydrodynamics of water pressure on top of, say, like a whole civilization of people or animals and stuff like that.
Kind of like Noah's Ark.
And what that would do with stuff like carbon dating, you know, because as far as I understand, carbon dating is how you measure how old something is by the amount of carbon that it's absorbed.
I'm not sure that carbon dating works that far back.
I mean, if it's really millions and millions.
well, maybe it does.
Maybe it does.
I thought that it was more accurate in the hundreds of thousands of years, but I'm a little foggy on that.
unidentified
Okay.
Well, I was just wondering, maybe, you know, with that kind of pressure, because it's tremendous, tremendous pressure, you know, how, you know, just like a small silk covering of like an animal at the bottom of the sea for, you know, a year or so even carbon can be absorbed.
It said that in a big inning, you know, like the Bible, the planets broke off from another mass and became different planets and then eventually became inhabited with life.
Well, I kind of think those shows are kind of fake.
I really don't think that any insurance company that would represent those shows would purposely allow anybody to go into a place that was really haunted and end up getting sued.
unidentified
Well, there's one way you could find out for sure.
Oh, that's why I don't like the show, because I think if it was up to me, if I could ever meet her, I would probably say, you know, your catchphrase is the same thing that Stalin and FBR said at Churchill at Tehran, Milta.
unidentified
You are the weak, Winston, you are the weakest link.
And I have, you know, if you've been watching the program, and I have, she's getting meaner as she goes.
So apparently, meanness in that case means ratings.
Meanness equals ratings.
And she has discerned that wisely, and she is becoming meaner and meaner.
And while it's fun to watch, I have discerned that it would not be fun to participate in receiving comments like, is there any beginning to your knowledge?
And much worse.
It's getting much worse, believe me.
All right, we're going to break here at the bottom of the hour, and we'll be back with more of whatever you're offering on Open Lines.
I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks.
Tonight, an oncore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 13, 2001.
With a digger, digger, down a battle now, go to the little roundy window with a window with a little girl in the Hollywood farm below.
Are you a woman in the lady in the city of London?
Oh, All our times have come Here but now they're going Thank you.
Seasons don't feel the reaper, nor do the wind, the sun, or the rain.
We can be like they are.
Come on, baby.
Don't feel the reaper.
Baby, take my hand.
You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time.
Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 13th, 2001.
I've been contemplating this idea now for some time.
What it would be like to actually move the Earth.
Stick around.
may find out.
unidentified
SHARE!
SHARE!
Thank you.
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Now we take you back to the night of June 13, 2001, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
I kind of found it interesting, kind of like what you were saying when he was saying that the code, the actual Bible, was written by 40 or 50 people inspired by God.
I found that kind of intriguing because my understanding, kind of coming from a religious background, was that the Bible was more written by apostles and disciples and such things that were there and that saw it.
And from my standpoint, the discrepancy in terms of the Bible more came from how many times was the Bible rewritten and written again and who had translated in between them.
And, you know, that much time, 450 B.C. until, what, 2,500 years later, roughly, good heavens.
unidentified
Yeah, I was in total agreement with you.
Just thought I'd point that out because I think that's mainly where the discrepancy falls in, not necessarily who wrote the Bible, because I think that's pretty much set in stone where that came from.
I think, like you and me pointed out, the discrepancy mainly falls in.
I mean, 2,000 years is a long time to keep translating things over and over again.
I really believe that Susquatch or Bigfoot, some people say, is dropped down at various places by the UFOs and as a test, kind of to see how they, you know, and then pick them back up and it's like an experiment.
And then if they're detected or for some reason, about every six months, they seem to relocate them.
And that would explain why there are no remains ever found.
If they get in any kind of difficulty, somehow they communicate that and are immediately airlifted out of the area.
And if they're injured or near or ill or whatever it might be.
And I've been thinking about this for a long time.
And I really think that's the way it works because they'll be spotted in an area for a few weeks or months and then they're gone.
what does that make them now well there in other words why would an alien civilization And I've been in the space program, by the way.
I'm in the Navy.
And I have a lot of experience with Skylab, for instance.
And I have a lot of information that I've got from various sources in the Navy.
And I was on many Skylab pickups.
And they would do a lot of experience, or experiments, that they would tell you they're doing experiments when, in actuality, they're doing manufacturing in outer space.
You can bet all kinds of things like that were done, sir, for defense need, sure.
They need new materials, some of which can only be manufactured in space, and you know darn well that's going on.
You know, I would like to understand, with regard to our president's pressing for a missile defense system, exactly what or who we're building this to protect.
I wonder if any of you have the same questions.
Now, I guess it's the old SDI idea, really, a missile defense, able to take out missiles in the boost phase, able to destroy them from space.
That's really SDI, right?
So it's SDI come back.
And I understand the Chinese certainly have capabilities, although not great capabilities.
So, just for the record, I'm not opposed to the idea of a missile defense system.
I would simply like to know exactly who we're designing it to protect against.
They could actually be, you know, if you were to observe a particular area of a constellation in a star, there is a beam of energy that is like a beam of light that can be spectrumized and you can figure out where it's coming to you.
And it's coming to the Earth.
And you just made the comment about how they're saying over, we've got this going on in the shift in the Earth.
Actually, the constellations move, the Earth doesn't.
If you go 10, 100, thousands of years ago, the Big Dipper expands.
What my point is, is that a beam of light is coming to the Earth from a constellation.
And these are the people I believe after this Bible thing that are coming to recapture the dark side of the shadow people, what they left in that blank period of time of 2,000 years when they left in the pyramids the covenant.
I could have, sir, I could have, at the end of that program, at that moment, turned over all the information, because I had permission to at that point.
Maybe I should have, to Robert Morgan.
But I just had this feeling that given a little time to think about it, he would make a different decision.
And he did.
unidentified
Well, the reason I'm calling is because as believable as he was, and I walked away from that show believing it, I've had a couple days to chew it over, and I kind of changed my mind.
And I've got five basic points here that kind of pop up as red flags.
And I'd like to throw that your way.
Point one, I try to put myself in his position.
If this was weighing on my conscience so heavily and I wanted to get rid of it and have it over with, you know, he could have anonymously given you this information and anonymously given you a map.
When he first went on the air with me, if you remember the first interview, there was no intent when he went on the air for anybody to go dig up anything.
unidentified
it developed into that as we got into the story so he was I actually take issue with that because if you recall, in the first interview, he said that his two other friends, there would have to be a unanimous agreement between all three of them before anything could go forward.
That's right.
Okay, point one was that he could have anonymously done this and not attached his own identity to the events in any way.
If he'd say, sent me the map, the chance that I would have acted on that without hearing his story, without hearing the compelling story, would be slim and zero.
I mean, I get tons of mail.
It comes in by the barrels full.
And I can guarantee you, sir, I'd have looked at it and I said, hmm, but would I have gone to Texas and tried to dig something up?
Yeah, and originally he said that was no problem because, you know, he would have to contact them to get a unanimous vote to move forward with anything.
And I'll tell you, if an event like this occurred between three people, you'd think it would create a bond lifelong.
i mean if if there was a spit suspicion for example that you might have killed human beings it would be something that you would repress and suppress and you as a result of that you might not contact the others involved it might be sort of a there are three wives in the equation possibly.
That's right.
But in this case, one is enough.
unidentified
Right, right.
Well, the final point, you just touched on it.
The fact that he has come forward and given you his phone number, his address, his name, that alone, from the standpoint of authorities, would be probable cause for them to come forth and contact you and demand that you give them his name.
Well, I'm just saying that if there were any investigations of the burial site, if Dr. Morgan or anyone else went out there, I don't think the outcome would be any different than, you know, as far as the authorities are concerned, than it should be just given the fact that he came to you and he identified himself and said he committed these acts.
The truth is, I don't think the authorities would act on it either way because you're listened to by millions of people.
Well, I will tell you where I believe, and I do believe this, if we dug up bones or remains, at that point, believe me, somehow the authorities would become very involved at that point.
unidentified
At that point, yeah.
But I also think that there would be a great effort on your part and Dr. Morgan's and others to make sure there are scientists out there to say, okay, hey, look, Mr. Policeman, this is not a human skull.