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June 13, 2001 - Art Bell
02:54:51
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Underwater City - Linda Moulton Howe - Stephan Schwartz
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Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
tonight featuring coast to coast am from june thirteenth two thousand one
from the high desert and the great american southwest.
Now to do all good evening and or good morning or good afternoon wherever you may be across this great
globe of ours at least now before they move it we'll have a more detailed story in the next hour
but this hour is being set aside for Linda Bolton Howe who is going to give us a report we've all been waiting for on
the progress on the story of verifying the story on the sunken city off the coast of
cuba That's coming up shortly.
I'd like to welcome a brand new affiliate to the ever-increasing fold as we get that close to 500.
W.E.G.P.
in Crest Isle, Maine, 1390 on the dial way up north in Maine.
W.E.G.P.
Presque Isle, Maine, 1390, and hello to McDonald Smith and Walter Prue, respectively, the GM and PD of W.E.G.P.
Great to be on there, way up north.
You'd think we were up north, as our temperatures have now dropped here in the desert to an incredible, in June, what is this, June 13th, oh my God, 65.8 degrees right now, unheard of.
Absolutely unheard of.
Crazy weather everywhere.
Alright, this is a story that I really have to get out of here quickly.
It comes from Pravda, and it seems that you can check the Pravda site yourself, but Pravda is announcing that Gagarin's flight was not the first.
Forty years after the flight, they're announcing That three others went before Gagarin.
All three of them died.
The names were not publicized.
It was in 1957, 1958, 1959, and again, all three pilots died, attempting to do eventually what Gagarin did.
Actually, their goal was not to orbit around the Earth, as Gagarin later did, but make a parabola-shaped flight, and they died.
And it's a funny thing, because I knew hams who claimed that they had heard transmissions from Russian cosmonauts who said goodbye.
And so, pretty interesting story from Pravda.
A lot of other stories I want to get on the air, but we've got to get to Linda Moulton Howe, a very important discussion tonight.
By the way, with respect to my yesterday, somebody asked To see pictures of my RV, the one we're going to be vacationing in beginning June 21st.
So, late in the show yesterday, immediately Keith put them up on the website, and everybody wanted to know what my handle would be.
David Schwartz from Irvine suggests...
Millennium Master.
So, I shall be on the road.
My CB handle will be Millennium Master.
Also, I'll have a ham rig for HF, VHF, and UHF.
2 meters and 440.
So, I'll be mobiling around out there.
You should hear Millennium Master.
That'll be the rig.
Coming up in a moment, the one you've been waiting for about The Sunken City, 2200, that's a lot, almost a half mile below the water, off the coast of Cuba.
and an absolutely incredible story coming right up now we take you back to the night of june thirteenth two
thousand one on our girls somewhere in time
and From Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, she's a crop circle researcher, environmental reporter, has had a number of documentaries on the environment.
We can sure use that, can't we?
And a general scientific reporter for both Dreamland and Coast to Coast AM here in the late night with a story everybody's been waiting for.
Here's Linda Moulton Howe.
Linda?
Hi, Art.
Hi.
Well, when I reported last month on Coast about the Cuba discovery, I had an interview with Barbara Moffat, Director of Plans and Programs at the National Geographic Society in Washington, who confirmed that the Society was aware of the deepwater mystery off the western tip of Cuba.
She said that Geographic was communicating with Paulina Zielinski and her husband, Paul Weinzweig, partners in Canada's advanced digital communications company known as ADC.
Last month, National Geographic was trying to decide whether to help fund a dive in a remotely operated vehicle that would have cameras to see what is down there.
Today, I talked again with Barbara Moffitt, and she confirmed that National Geographic has now made an official agreement for exclusive magazine coverage.
Really?
Linda, before we proceed, let's assume that some listeners don't know what we're talking about.
Can you fill them in on what is claimed to have been found below the waters of Tuba almost a half mile down?
It's in my very next sentence or paragraph.
Paulina Zolitsky is a former Russian ocean engineer who defected to Canada some years ago and married Canadian businessman Paul Wineswhite.
She has been testing deep ocean equipment on a boat off the coast of Mexico since The Reuters story broke with her comments.
In that mid-May article, she said that her company, Advanced Digital Communications, found, quote, a huge land plateau with clear images of what appears to be man-made, large-size architectural designs partly covered by sand.
From above, the shapes resemble pyramids, roads, and buildings, unquote.
Four years ago, the couple joined other funding partners from Australia to create ADC in Victoria, British Columbia, to work deep ocean waters for science and underwater archaeology.
Polina Zalitsky is still testing equipment in Mexico now for this ROV mission that will take video cameras down to the 2,200-foot site To see what is making these mysterious geometric side-scan sonar images.
And for Coast listeners who would like to see what a side-scan sonar image looks like, you can see one now on my website www.earthfiles.com.
It's the top story in the science section about Cuba.
That's www.earthfiles.com in science.
And it is an odd-looking image, not what I expected, and we can talk more about that after the break, because now what I want to do is move on to something very important, which is that I recently was able to talk with her husband, Paul Weinzweig.
And at first, he did not want to say anything on the record, because he said that after the Reuters article, Cuban officials asked him to not do any more media interviews until there is hard photographic evidence of what's underwater.
I said that all I wanted on the record for radio was a status report about what his wife, Paulina Zielitski, had already talked about with Reuters.
And I also pointed out that ABC and Disney got to use a clip from the ABC research ship to promote Disney's animated feature about Atlantis that was on this past Sunday.
And with that, Mr. Weinflag finally agreed to say a few guarded comments.
Okay.
Should be interesting.
Well, we have some interesting sonar images, which we gathered last summer, and we're hoping to confirm any speculations about these images with video cameras in an ROV this summer.
Do you have any idea what month it might be?
Sometime this summer.
No, I can't say exactly.
Would July itself be too early?
I don't want to say.
Okay.
And in terms of the promotion for the Voyage to Atlantis movie, which was on Sunday, June 10th, they did discuss a little bit about Cuba and on the ABC I haven't seen the film.
that it was quote most likely the site of an underground civilization such as
Atlantis and they are promoting that movie. What was what was your
perspective on what ABC is doing with the movie and their comments and using a
clip of you? I haven't seen the film. I haven't seen the TV.
Well there's obviously a lot of interest in the in the subject.
There's a lot of interest in ancient civilizations, in the mysteries that surround them, and in the idea of Atlantis, which was supposedly an advanced civilization, which Mother Nature sent to the bottom of the ocean.
And who knows?
Maybe Mother Nature will send a few more advanced civilizations to the bottom of the ocean.
And right now, though, you might be in a position to get down there and confirm the discovery of at least something that is structured.
That's right.
Exactly.
And in terms of those shapes of the pyramids and the rectangles that Paulina Zielinski discussed with Reuters, That they might fit with what was, once upon a time, the ancient culture on the Yucatan or something else.
Possibly.
Possibly.
We're not... Nobody's seen these before, so it's very difficult to say what they are, but they're interesting.
What happened, then, in terms of Cuba and And the legal issues of Under Ocean Archaeology?
Well, I think it's in the Cuban territorial waters.
It belongs to Cuba, if it's there.
And it would also have a status at some point as a World Heritage Site.
And Cuba is very respectful of these kinds of things.
There would be opportunities for scientists from around the world, I'm sure, to investigate further.
And when you put down those machines that can videotape underneath, will that then be conclusive?
will know this summer?
Well, scientists are always saying we need to do more research,
but I think video cameras will tell us pretty conclusively whether it's some kind of weird geology
or formations from hot vents or something like that, or whether it's a man-made.
And because it's so extensive, covering kilometers, Does it seem more likely to you that it is archaeological?
Yeah, we think so, yeah.
We're operating on that premise, yeah.
And that those pyramidal shapes on the side scan sonar are pretty much, the shapes are pretty clear, aren't they?
At least shapes are clear.
I wouldn't necessarily call them pyramids, I would just say that there are Geometries and symmetries that suggest man-made structures.
And the videotape will be conclusive?
Or the video images will be?
I think it would be for us, yes.
What do the side-scan sonar images show at 2200 feet down off the western tip of Cuba?
I have talked with a man who saw them.
He is Dr. Frank Muller-Carger, Caribbean expert and professor of oceanography.
...in the College of Marine Science at the University of South Florida in St.
Petersburg.
He knows Paulina Zolitsky and her husband, Paul Weinsweig, and has worked with them on the study of ocean currents in plankton.
That was the initial work that Paulina Zolitsky was doing last summer when her ship's sonar showed peculiar images covering several kilometers nearly one-half mile down on the ocean floor.
Here is Dr. Muller-Carger.
It looks very interesting, and the fact that things have such sharp edges is very interesting, of course, and that's what's piquing so much interest.
What is unusual about seeing sharp images with using sonar?
Well, there's not too many sharp edges that nature forms in such large scale.
And over such a wide area, you may have a couple of rocks that may look square.
But if you have so many square things thrown about in a large area, it would be a very, very unique geological formation, or it could be some man-made type of construction.
Now that's the interesting part of it.
Unless we go there and look, we won't know exactly what it is.
So right now, all you can do is speculate.
I would not want to just say that these are man-made objects because I have no clue what they really are.
Could you, with your own eyes, make out a pyramidal type shape?
There are triangular type shapes and other types of geometrical forms, but remember the sonar is just a tool and it's not a perfect tool.
So what you're looking at, if you imagine What you would see with radars.
If you have something that has a face pointing toward you, it'll give you a reflection.
But then you have a shadow behind it.
And it depends on the angle that you're looking at.
These shadows could be long or short.
Shadows can be interpreted as angular features.
It's very hard to interpret what is a shadow and what is not a shadow.
What is a strong reflection and what isn't.
And it's the combination of these things that looks Very interesting.
Yeah, you do see things that have straight edges and that is the curious thing about it.
There's very few things that have straight edges that are natural at those large scales.
Did you talk with Paulina Zielinski and Paul Weinzweig specifically about the shapes on the sonar images that they showed you being possibly related to Uh, the, uh, whatever the ancient cultures were, uh, prior to the Mayan, uh, civilization?
Well, it's, uh, sort of in a conversational form, not in any type of, uh, professional analysis form.
We looked at the images.
We were all very excited about what was, what was, uh, apparent there, but it's, it's, uh, we're all just standing in front of a picture and, you know, like, children just speculating about what it may be without any clue as to what it really is.
So, that's why they're going back there.
And what was it, as you looked at the sonar image, what was it that excited you?
Well, the fact that you, when you look at sonar images, it looks sort of smooth curves and shades here, but everything looks sort of curvy and shades of curves, so it looks smooth, okay, so when you look at these, you do see things that Uh, have very strong reflections and along straight edges and there's a lot of those things, like you said, over a field of several... Kilometers.
Tens of square kilometers.
And that these straight edges that are both rectangular and somewhat pyramidal with straight edges are all over that several kilometers area.
Yeah.
But again, it could be a very unique geological formation.
We just don't know.
And until we go there and take a very close look, all it's going to be is just speculation.
And I would hope that nobody goes with the... You know, it's very romantic to think, oh yeah, there may have been a lost civilization and ruins and all.
And we all would like to see something like that.
But I don't think that it's the right thing to do, to speculate without actually going there.
I think it's great that there's an opportunity to actually go and take a closer look, because just from a geological point of view, it would be very interesting also.
Now, remember Yonaguni Art, which is another site that Dr. Schock from Boston University went with the idea that they had some underwater archeology, and it's turned out now that most everyone's consensus is that Yonaguni is geomorphological.
So that was what he was making in the last point, but I hope that you and listeners got the emphasis that it is very unusual over several square kilometers to have straight edges that may be in both rectangular form and in triangular form, and that they're very large, very huge in size.
And now, what exactly can be seen in side-scan sonar is very interesting and more complex than I expected.
And after the break, I have a brief interview with an underwater archaeologist who works with side-scan sonar.
But before then, Art, I thought it would be especially important to conclude this report tonight, if I have the time, with Plato's famous dialogue with Timaeus and Critias, in which Critias describes The ancient tale about a great continent called Atlantis.
And I'm now quoting from Plato.
A mighty host which, starting from a distant point in the Atlantic Ocean, was insolently advancing to attack the whole of Europe and Asia to boot.
For the ocean there was at that time navigable.
For in front of the mouth, which you Greeks call the Pillars of Hercules, there lay an island which was larger than Libya and Asia together.
And it was possible for the travelers of that time to cross from it to the other islands, and from the islands to the whole of the continent.
And yonder is a real ocean, and the land surrounding it may most rightly be called, in the fullest and truest sense, a continent.
Now in this land of Atlantis there existed a confederation of kings of great and marvelous power, Which held sway over all of that island and over many other islands also in parts of the continent and moreover of the lands here within the straits.
They ruled over Libya as far as Egypt and over Europe as far as Tuscany.
And then there is the description of warring and slavery and conflict between this Atlantis community and what is today known as Europe and it concludes But at a time there occurred portentous earthquakes and floods, and one grievous day and night befell them, the Atlanteans, when the whole body of the warriors was swallowed up by the earth, and the island of Atlantis was swallowed up.
Was swallowed up.
Alright, hold it right there.
We'll be right back.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 13th, 2001.
so long Listen to the strange stories
Wonder where it all went wrong Oh so long
So long Hold on, hold on, hold on
See what you got Hold on
I was street, I was talking to a man He said there's so much but there's nothing mine
That I don't understand You shouldn't worry, I said that ain't no crime
Cause if you get it wrong, you'll get it right next time Thanks for watching!
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 13th, 2001.
Good morning.
after a while you get the break of night so if you get it wrong
you're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time tonight featuring Costa Costa AM from June 13th, 2001
Good morning It would be the story of the century
or maybe many centuries if there was an entire civilization
a continent that sank half mile below the Atlantic
Bye.
Headline here, in Cuban territorial waters.
That's something we didn't know before.
That's a headline, Cuban territorial waters.
New information.
Flash, flash.
We'll, uh, be right back.
Sound of thunder.
Now we take you back to the night of June 13th, 2001, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Music.
Well, I have quite a few questions, but right now, immediately back to Linda Bolton-Howe in Philadelphia.
Linda?
Yeah, thanks, Art.
Just before the break, I was about to finish this famous quote from Plato and it was the paragraph, but at a later time there occurred portentous earthquakes and floods and the island of Atlantis in like manner was swallowed up by the sea and vanished.
Wherefore also the ocean at that spot has now become impassable and unsearchable.
being blocked up by the shoal mud which the island created as it settled down."
What can you see under the water with side scan sonar?
Well, it operates by sending out sonar pulses from what's called a fish,
because it looks sort of like a torpedo as it's dragged behind a boat.
And the sonar goes out from either side of this fish and it hits rock surfaces and sand surfaces below
and then reflects back to produce an image that archaeologists can then study
to try to figure out what they are looking at on the ocean floor.
But it's not really so simple, as I learned today in a conversation with Michael Arbuthnot, who is working toward his PhD in Anthropology and Underwater Archaeology at Florida State University.
Michael works with side-scanning sonar radar We're studying an ancient underwater campsite that goes back to the last ice age off the coast of Tallahassee.
This one is only about 14 feet underwater, whereas the Cuban one is 2,200 feet down.
But side-scanning sonar is going to give approximately the same kind of image.
And at my website, earthfiles.com, in the science section, you can see a side-scan sonar image that Michael provided of this underwater campsite, which shows how difficult the sonar images are to interpret, even to people who are experienced.
There are many complex factors, as Michael Arbuthnot explains.
Because there are all kinds of factors that play into it.
Depth, the water conditions, the movements of the ship, you can get Similar readings from completely different types of materials underwater.
It doesn't distinguish between something that is, say, made of metal versus something that's made of stone.
And so, even if you see something that you think stands out on a side-scan sonar, unless you can get down with video imaging cameras, you really don't know what you have.
Absolutely.
It can be very deceiving.
I talked to you before a little bit about how At one point we thought we were looking at a cannon, and when we ended up diving the site, we saw that it was nothing more than some coral grove.
And if you took that same technology down 2,200 feet to that site off the western coast of Cuba, would the image look any different in the side scan double frequency sonar that they're using?
Well, probably not.
I mean, it really kind of depends on what's down there.
You know, if there's Something more to reflect the sonar than, yeah, it's going to look different.
You know, what we're looking at here is a site that's fairly flat.
I don't think there was anything more than about two or three feet high sitting up off of the fairly flat, sandy sea bottom.
So, you know, according to certain initial reports from Cuba, there's all kinds of high-relief So when you are using side scan sonar imagery, it is not like a photograph?
No, no, it's definitely not.
That's a misconception.
side-scan sonar is going to produce an image that's going to give you something generally
similar to what we're seeing here.
So when you are using side-scan sonar imagery, it is not like a photograph?
No, no, it's definitely not.
That's a misconception.
I mean, sometimes when you're looking at it, it looks as though you could interpret it
like a photograph.
But then when you've looked at enough images over time, and you could look at the same
location, the same coordinates from a side-scan sonar images that are taken going, say, on
a north-south track line versus an east-west track line over the exact same location, and
you're going to get feedback that could look very different.
So the next step in all of this is going to be, when do they actually go down with the cameras?
And as Mr. Weinzweig said, the conclusive look with images, and will it happen in July or August?
He says that Paulina Zielinski has been having a lot of problems with equipment, is still down in Mexico as we speak tonight.
He told me that he was not certain when they would do this, but they are expecting it to happen this summer.
And National Geographic is already signed on.
That's right.
And now, Linda, I said headline, Cuban territorial waters.
That is something we did not know before, right?
To have it clarified as being exactly in Cuban territorial waters, I don't think anybody has said that until he said that.
Well, actually, that might account for why it hasn't been found prior to this.
Well, you know, she stumbled on this accidentally when I was talking with the oceanographer.
He had been working with them on tracking uh... water current ocean current and it's another story I'd like to do with you on coast upcoming because this man is tracking the north atlantic continental drift.
Boy is that a whole different very important question.
It's extremely important and but just for a second Linda stick with this.
That was the work he was doing with Paulina when they found this.
Gotcha.
I want to go back in the story a little bit.
I thought I heard you say Paulina Zolitsky Defected to Canada.
Did you say that?
That's right.
She defected to Canada.
You meant to use the word defect?
Defect.
Yes, she was working.
This is going back some time.
She was working in Cuba as a Russian citizen.
And she was working as an engineer on ocean projects for what was then the Soviet Union.
And she did defect to Canada, which is where she met Paul Weinzweig.
And she's now, her life has been in Cuba under what you might say two different political considerations.
One, where she was from the Soviet Union and now she is married to a Canadian.
Her Canadian husband sounded very pro-Cuban.
Well, I think that they do have great respect.
I would say they have great respect for That culture and trying to work with the Cuban Academy of Sciences.
And there is another story that I would like to develop that I'm just learning about this fascinating island.
And I can give you this one piece that I hope to fill in with a geologist in two or three weeks.
We'll actually be in July.
And that is the western end of Cuba is of a Jurassic period.
Whereas the other end of Cuba is a different period.
No kidding.
Yeah, and the hypothesis is that whatever the island of Cuba is, it may have been a collision point of two or three different land masses at some point in the past.
Wow.
That makes this whole issue of the Yucatan Gulf Cuba We know that that asteroid came slamming down into that water near the northern edge of the Yucatan 66, let's say, million years ago when the dinosaurs were here.
Yes.
What all has transpired in that area?
And could the asteroid itself long ago have set up all kinds of fracture points?
We know that.
We know that there are fracture points all over in the Gulf because of that crater.
Is it possible that there were fracture points that ultimately could have led to some huge earthquake occurring and a big land mass falling to the bottom of the sea?
And the reason why I bring that up, I have learned in these dialogues that in Jamaica, in the end of the 1600s, there was a big earthquake and there was a whole sort of village town.
It also fell off.
The whole thing went down.
It is now a tourist attraction because it's only a few meters underneath the water, but it is the same concept.
Linda, do you have in an offhand what the Cubans claim in terms of territorial waters?
How far out?
I think that is a question that should be resolved.
I know there are international treaties and then there are different nations have their own interpretations and I can't answer you exactly sitting here.
Right.
I know countries make claims and then there are international Like 200 miles.
Well, if Cuba were to claim 200 miles, they'd have a good part of Florida.
That's true.
I get the impression that this is pretty close to that western tip.
God, that's exciting.
That is so exciting, Linda.
It is, and I would like to keep on going and staying in touch with everybody involved with this.
One of the things that will interfere for a while is that I'm heading for Hong Kong and Laos next week.
Yeah, I've heard.
Linda's going to Laos.
Headline, folks.
Why are you going to Laos?
I'm going to Laos to be the on-camera reporter for a British production company that's doing a series for the Discovery Channel called Asian Enigmas.
And they're doing various mysteries involved with scientists.
And we'll be going on a camera safari into central Laos on the trail of what is called the Laotian Wild Men.
And eyewitness descriptions and drawings resemble the Sasquatch and the Bigfoot descriptions of North America.
Linda, did you happen to get an opportunity to hear any of the show between Robert W. Morgan and Bugs, a fellow named Bugs, who shot two Bigfoot?
Not yet, but I plan to, because who knows what the connection is between these tall, hairy humanoids that are seen From the Himalayas to Laos and Vietnam to all over North America.
Do you really want to go to Laos?
We've talked about this.
Now there are landmines all over Laos.
Yeah, I had this idea that we would be able to go and actually explore out in the jungles and I have been warned by my British colleagues that We have to stay on the paths that have been established, pretty much, because we don't want to be blown up with grenades and unexploded mines.
Right.
Well, you know, another interesting thing, and I'd like to see if any of our listeners know, these tall, hairy humanoids were reported during the Vietnam War in the late 1960s and the early 1970s by American GIs, and more recently, villagers in central Laos have also reported seeing whatever these creatures are.
And if any of our Coast listeners served in Vietnam and had any such encounters yourselves, or if you know anyone who talked about them, please get in touch with me as soon as you can, because I have to leave at the end of next week.
Linda, I was there, and I heard rumors.
Rumors.
Well, I'll talk to you about your rumors, and I'll give out the email for others to get in touch with me at earthfiles...
That's just like my website, www.earthfiles.com.
My fax number is 215-491-9842.
The email is earthfiles at earthfiles.com.
My fax number is 215-491-9842.
That's 215-491-9842.
And for people who prefer to use the mail, it is post office box 300 in Jamison, Pennsylvania.
That's 1-800-525-18929.
And sort of following up on this whole idea of a lot of military people who have information about a lot of unusual subjects, I'd like to let the Coast audience know That finally my two-volume book, Glimpses of Other Realities, that does contain a large military section and does have a chapter about a man in Snohomish, Washington, who watched some kind of a hairy primate come down out of the sky out of an unidentified aerial craft to the ground.
And that this is, I think myself, that the information in Glimpses of Other Realities from the military and intelligence sources that I was able to get this information from, many of whom have passed on, that it's so important.
And I hope that listeners will go to earthfiles.com and see the information about these books and how to order them, because I think that there are so many facts that some of the people who have served in military and intelligence That are so important for the rest of us to know and unless some of us have tried to talk with them off the record this information would never see the light of day.
Linda, the dates again that you're going to be in Laos?
I'll be gone from next Friday until back in Philly on July 6th and you and I are going to try a live coast when I'm in Hong Kong I think on my day there of July No, we will be completely out of touch.
monday july second right i'll give you the uh...
international numbers matter of fact you get through on that one
and uh... from hong kong easily but uh... you know how much time you can
actually spend in last year uh... and that's almost ten days and during that ten days
you can't get hold of me can you
now we will be uh... completely out of uh... touch and how do you feel about this
well i am very interested because uh... there
to me in my life the most satisfying aspect of my profession has been
to go into the field into actual places where human beings and unusual earth
mysteries uh... are being reported
It is only, I've found, putting my feet in the same land and being able to talk with people and watch their faces and have them do drawings And have them look at images in books.
And then we're going to have a Laotian and Vietnamese translator with us all the time.
That we may learn some things that maybe no one else has heard before.
And that is going to be a step.
And the second thing is, is that there was a very unusual footprint cast that was made of a very, very large primate-like foot in Vietnam.
And I've seen a photograph from 1982.
And the thing that really got me is I've seen a lot of the images that Jimmy Chilcutt, the forensic police guy down in Texas, has taken and what Jeff Meldrum, the anthropologist, has.
It's going to be interesting to see what they find in Texas.
But this photograph of this, this is in Vietnam print, has the longest, most elegant foot and toes.
It is so refined looking that it is almost shocking.
and that is the area that we are going to be going to.
And whether or not we will ever see anything, we will be talking with people who have seen
it and a zoologist talking to us about what is there.
And I'm going to at least have that eerie Bigfoot sound that I've played in so many
shows.
I'm going to take that.
You're going to take it with you in a boom box or something?
I'm going to at least run it by some of the villagers and see what their reaction is.
They're going to just love that.
Hopefully it's not some kind of mating call.
Oh boy, well and then my hope is that after I get back I'll do a coast with you from Hong Kong and then on July 7th I'll be doing a long dreamland with Whitley about the whole adventure.
My hope is that somewhere around mid-July that maybe Paulina Zielinski and her husband will know by then.
Linda, you know, you can hear the mouse snapping shut.
I mean, from National Geographic to Ms.
Zielinski's husband.
I mean, talk about a guarded interview.
Holy moly, Linda.
You could just hear it clamping shut.
And so, somebody's on to something really big there.
This is fascinating.
Well, it is, but you know, the caution that they all say is, remember Yonaguni, remember that we don't fully understand everything in our oceans, and if this is natural, as Dr. Miller-Carter said, if this is geological, we've got to see it, because it's unlike anything then that has ever been.
Can I suggest one quick avenue of inquiry?
Our Navy, you know damn well, has been hugging along the Cuban shores and looking down deep for a long time.
Why don't you try a casual inquiry to the U.S.
Navy about what they might know about what's underwater near the coast of Cuba?
It's worth asking.
They'll probably say.
Sorry.
Yeah, and we don't know anything.
Yeah, but they do know something.
You know they know what's around the waters of Cuba.
You just know they do.
Linda, that's got to be it for tonight.
We're out of time, but there's one avenue to follow, and we will talk.
Well, no, we won't talk.
My God, we might not talk before you get back.
Well, from Hong Kong.
We'll talk to you.
On your show, if all works out, your July 2nd, my July 3rd in Hong Kong.
Stay on the path, Linda.
I'm trying.
In Laos.
Take care.
Good night.
That's Linda Moulton Howe, Laos.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
tonight featuring coast to coast am from june thirteenth two thousand one
that have all and I'm not a man and I'm not a day go by I never thought
myself to wonder why you have to forget to play my role you take my self, you
take my self unhold I, I live among the creatures of the night I haven't got
the will to try and fight against the new tomorrow so I guess I'll just believe it
that tomorrow never comes I say tonight I'm living in the forest of the dream
I know the night is not how it would seem I must believe in something so I'll make myself believe it
this night will never go oh the night is my world
it's the light painted your in the day I've been lovin' you tonight
Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's program originally aired June 13th, 2001.
Morning, everybody.
Headlines are, and I'll give you details as we get into open lines later tonight, because my guest has got to be on an aircraft at 6 a.m., and he's on the East Coast right now, so that means it's 2 right now.
He's headed for a remote viewing conference.
Here in Las Vegas, or over the hill from me in Las Vegas, he is Stephen A. Schwartz, and he'll be up shortly.
But headlines, I guess at this hour, could include the following.
The sunken city, so-called, off the coast of Cuba appears to be in Cuban territorial waters.
The one big confirmation we got tonight.
Indeed, Cuban territorial waters.
Two, Pravda is breaking news tonight that Mr. Gagarin's flight was not the first.
That three Russian cosmonauts died trying to get to space before Gagarin.
They're just now admitting that.
It's in Pravda.
This occurred in 1957, respectively 1958 and 1959.
Headline, Bugs.
respectively nineteen fifty eight and nineteen fifty nine remember bums and the big foot
well i talked about this some two or three hours ago and bugs wife will not let him do it
I I repeat, Bugs' wife will not let him do it.
And I'm not surprised.
I, too, have experienced veto power.
And that's what this appears to be.
And I'm not surprised.
I'm not surprised.
So...
I have the map, and the name, and all the rest of it in a very secure location, and that's, I guess, where it's going to have to stay, until I said, look, if you ever change your mind, just say the word.
I mean, I've got attorneys who are prepared to represent this man, and I've been receiving all kinds of information from attorneys, but right now, the word is, Boggs' wife won't let him.
And when you think about it, it shouldn't be a big surprise.
I now have the full story on NASA aiming to move Earth.
Actually move Earth.
I've got a full story.
It's up on the website now, if you want to read the whole thing.
Much more than I had just the other day.
It's a real story.
They actually do have plans to, perhaps, move Earth.
Somebody sent me an email.
No message body at all.
It just says, subject, NASA.
Three exclamation points.
Then, ha, ha, ha.
Hey, Mo!
You know, they really do have these plans.
So we'll try and get to that and a lot more when we get to open lines.
In the meantime, a remote viewer that we have never spoken with before, named Stephen Schwartz, is coming up in a moment.
Stay right where you are.
You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
I think now, as we look back, we can probably say with pretty good certainty that some people in government might have been aware of what was going on and they turned their cheek the other way just to let it happen.
I also believe that some bigger groups got involved with Al-Qaeda to do what they did on that horrible day.
This wasn't just a small group of people who came in and did their thing.
There was a much bigger picture there.
And if you see the events that have unfolded since this tragedy occurred, how we've lost rights, how we used it to go into Afghanistan and Iraq, and how it has really not stopped.
Because it's going to continue.
We're going to have more and more episodes and more and more involvement in other countries.
And just mark my word, this planet is going through an incredible change.
And thank God we've got you here to talk with us about it.
Now we take you back to the night of June 13th, 2001, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Now, Stephen A. Schwartz has researched consciousness and extraordinary human performance for more
than 25 years, particularly creativity, remote viewing, healing, and the effects of the anomalous
He is the author of The Engineering of Psi Trilogy, PSI Trilogy, The Secret Vaults of Time, The Alexandria Project, And Mind Rover, Explorations with Remote Viewing.
Some interesting titles.
That's a three-volume set, by the way, that explores the use of remote viewing in archaeology.
He'll be speaking at the 2001 International Remote Viewing Association Conference in Las Vegas between June 14th and 18th at the Texas Station Hotel.
He'll be talking about his work in Egypt, Which resulted in the discovery of Cleopatra's Palace, Mark Antony's, uh, Antony's, uh, uh, Timonium, and ruins of the Lighthouse of the Pharaohs, one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World.
Phew!
Here is Stephen A. Schwartz.
Stephen, welcome.
How are ya?
I'm, I'm just fine.
You've got a little hum on that phone, huh?
I have a little hum?
I can hear a little hum on your phone.
Um, what could I... Now I, now I hear a lot of hum.
Well?
It may be where you're moving.
Wait a minute.
Hold on.
I'll tell you what.
Okay.
I'm always willing to experiment at the cause of good audio.
Let me see.
Oh, it's really humming.
All of a sudden.
Oh, that's a real hummer now.
There's so much hum it's echoing my laugh.
How's that?
Still humming.
Do you have another telephone available?
No, I don't.
Am I still humming now?
Yeah, you are actually.
Do you have a light on up above you like a fluorescence?
No, I have all electricity.
I knocked my computer down.
Everything I've got.
Well, then try another phone, but it will be a cordless phone.
Well, I'm going to try anything once.
Okay.
So, go get... we'll wait.
Okay, hold on just a second.
If I get cut off from you, you'll call me back?
Oh, absolutely.
Okay, just a second.
Huh, this'll be interesting.
Uh, anyway, so Bug's wife said no.
And, uh, he, he wasn't happy about it, but, uh, I, as I said, I faced such vetoes, and I understand.
Okay, well, there went that one.
I heard that one disconnect.
But I do not hear another one connecting.
Looks like this is... Ah, we lost it.
So, as promised, we will call him back.
These things, that's funny, you know, just before we went on the air, that hum wasn't there.
I don't know, maybe I'm too picky on audio.
I really am picky, and I don't know why.
Let's see.
Whoops, wrong number.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Let's try this again.
Isn't that weird how it just Maybe it's when NSA hooks up their tap.
Actually, I know they don't.
I know they don't do that.
This is great.
We're just not getting through now.
And he sounds like such an interesting man, doesn't he?
I guess we'll take whatever we get when we get hooked up here.
Okay, I have confidence this time we're going to get through.
I think.
Yeah, I know.
She tells you what time it is, where you're calling.
Now, what was that?
Hello?
Hi there.
Is this better?
Oh, it's absolutely clear.
Oh, well, there you go.
Hey, that was worth doing.
Wonders of technology.
Yeah, no kidding.
And so now you can walk around.
That's true, and I am.
I'm actually standing out next to a little creek.
Are you really?
Yep.
That's nice.
Your books and what you've done.
This is incredible.
First of all, I guess I'd better... I'm going to jump ahead.
Instead of jumping ahead, let me ask you, what part did you have in the original remote viewing group, if any, the original U.S.
government CIA-funded remote viewing group?
I didn't have any involvement.
I had been in government as the Special Assistant to the Chief of Naval Operations, and I I've had a long-term interest in remote viewing although I didn't even know that anybody else called it remote or knew anything about it.
I got into this from an entirely different way and after I had set up a research lab I was approached by the government but I would not do classified research on extraordinary human functioning because I felt and feel that it was very important that anything that was discovered be made immediately available to people because I think that this kind of research beyond whatever it does at the sort of specifics of an experiment is really telling us a great deal about what it means to be a human being and what our capabilities are and I just did not approve of and didn't want to be associated with work that was classified and wouldn't be available to people.
Can you tell me what they were asking you to do?
Or what plans they have for you?
You know, I don't know exactly.
I was invited to speak at the Army War College and it was a sort of presentation that I was approached by a, I guess he was a brigadier at that point, general.
And they wanted, you know, they just basically was very general and they knew I had held clearances before.
And so I had given this briefing and they came up and said, would you be interested in this?
And you know, we could fund this and, and, um, I just, um, I didn't want to do it.
And the people that I was working with, the, the viewers, uh, and the other scientists that were part of the team, they didn't want to do it either.
And so, um, we just went another direction.
How long have you been remote viewing?
Well, I guess I started really doing this very seriously about 1968.
Long time.
I wrote the first article about some of the discoveries off of Bimini and I had been very interested in the Edgar Cayce material and had gotten into it that way and then got interested in archaeology because it provided an unimpeachable demonstration of these abilities, because the stuff's either there or it's not there.
You know, you cut through an awful lot of criticism and debate and just pontificating.
If somebody tells you where something is and you go find it and everybody agrees beforehand that no one knew where it was, if you can do that over and over again, it just can't be luck.
You did work that resulted in the discovery of Cleopatra's palace, Mark Antony's Timonium, and the ruins of the lighthouse of the pharaohs.
The lighthouse of pharaohs?
Not of pharaohs, pharaohs.
Pharaohs, yes.
One of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World.
Now, what in the world did you do?
How did you get involved in this work?
Tell me about it.
Well, when I had been in the Navy, when I'd been working in the Navy, across my desk came a classified document about some experiments that had been done by academician Leonid Veselyev in the Soviet Union.
And he, being a good Marxist, or at least officially being a good Marxist, had taken the position that if The psychic existed that it had to be some kind of radio wave.
And so over a period of time he had carried out a series of experiments in which he had gradually shielded people from various parts of the electromagnetic spectrum.
Oh, smart!
Yeah, it was a very elegant experiment.
He put people in Faraday cages.
That's basically a kind of screened room where Where radio waves are blocked, he eventually ended up putting them down into caverns and deep mine shafts, trying to shield against that.
And he published a series of papers, but one particularly, that I saw that had been translated.
And he said that if Psy was going to be a radio wave, which he wanted it to be, The only thing it could possibly be would be ELF, Extreme Low Frequency Electromagnetic Radiation.
And so, he said the only way you could really test against that would be to put a person in some sort of vessel and lower them down into the sea, because seawater would provide, it was the only thing that would provide the shielding, and he didn't have access to a submarine.
Well, I read that.
Well, I don't know.
We are able to use high-powered ELF to communicate with our submarines, right?
Yes, I'm coming.
That's very important to the story.
So I read this, and I knew immediately that the government had just spent about $125 million in a project to explore exactly how much ELF would penetrate into seawater, because they wanted to use it to talk to the boomers.
The missile submarine.
And when they submerge, they can't come up to the surface to put up an antenna, because the overflying satellites would catch it.
And they can't even get very close, because they would leave a thermal signature.
So the only way they could do it was ELF, and they discovered that you could only get a very little bit of information done.
This was shown in the Red October movie.
So what they got to was, basically they would just transmit a short number, and then there would be a book aboard the submarine, and the captain would look at it, and, you know, 1, 2, 3 would be target Moscow.
Or surface and listen.
Yeah, or whatever.
I mean, they couldn't get a whole message.
It was sort of like a return to the 18th century with signal flags, where you had to get it extremely abbreviated.
But in any case, the Project Sandwin, this was called, And Project Sanguine had established that you had to get down to about 300 feet.
And at that point, you really were, and particularly in terms of a psychic experiment, you really would be okay.
So I read this and I called up Hyman Rickover, who was the father of the nuclear navy, and And asked him to come over to see him.
I knew him slightly.
We lived near one another and at one point I was going to write a biography of him.
I went over to see him and of course people don't remember him so well now but in that time he was really the most fearsome naval or military figure in the country.
I mean he sort of created the nuclear navy.
Sure.
And no officer could serve aboard a nuclear aircraft without his personal approval.
So I went over to see him and And I explained to him what I wanted to do, which was to put myself and a couple of psychics, remote viewing as a term didn't exist yet, to see if I could do a series of experiments.
And he said, well, let me think about it.
And about a week later, he called me up and said, look, this is an interesting idea, but if the media ever gets hold of it, it's just going to cause a lot of problems, and this isn't going to happen.
That was the end of it.
I thought, well, nobody will ever do this experiment.
But then two friends of mine, Don Walsh, who had made the deepest dive in history in the Marianas Trench, and Don Keech, who had found the hydrogen bomb that had been lost off of Spain, they went out and took over the Institute of Marine and Coastal Studies at the University of Southern California.
And I was in Tucson writing, I'd left the government, moved out of Washington.
I was writing a book, my first book, The Secret Vaults of Time, about the previous centuries worth of research that had used what at that point I was calling remote sensing in an archaeological setting.
And I got a call from one of them and they said, You know, if you'll come out to L.A., we'll give you a submarine.
Everybody knew I was interested in this.
They teased me about it.
They said, we'll give you a submarine for three days, which was a very big deal because it cost a lot of money to have a submarine.
You bet.
So they said, we've got a little research submersible called the Taurus that's coming down from Canada.
And she's going to be here doing her sea trials.
And once she gets certified, she'll stay on for a few weeks.
And so if you'd like to do Uh, an experiment.
We'll let you do it.
And they had had a, you know, they were skeptical, extremely skeptical, but they were also interested and they knew me.
We'd worked together for a long time.
And so I, I went out to LA and I had, I had just finished The Secret Vaults of Time.
And in the course of writing this book, um, I had begun to figure out how I thought Remote sensing, remote viewing could really be used in a practical way because I was interested in the argument about whether it existed or not just isn't much of an argument I didn't think anymore and the real question was okay if it exists what can you do with it?
So I approached it as a kind of engineering problem.
So you went down in the sub?
We went down in the sub.
Well, we did several things.
I'll tell you what, we're at the bottom of the hour, so let's hold that for when we get back.
I want to find out exactly what happened.
That's a wild thought, that you could shield against a PSI of any sort.
I want to know how it came out.
I wonder why he confined his thoughts to the fact that it could only be ELF.
I wonder why.
We'll ask about that too.
I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 13, 2001.
Gonna die for David Wade Jenny was sweet
She always smiled for people she'd meet On troubled strides
She had another way of life She was a good person
She was a good person She was a good person
She was a good person For more information, visit www.coasttocoast.com
All those happy days, they seem so hard to find.
I tried to reach for you, but you have lost your mind.
Whatever happened to our love, I wish I understood.
It used to be so nice, it used to be so good So when you near me darling, can't you hear me XOX
The love you gave me, nothing else can save me XOX When you're gone, how can I even try to go on
When you're gone, how can I even try to go on?
When you're gone, so I try, how can I carry on?
When you're gone, though I try, how can I carry on My love you gave me nothing else can save me, XOX
These things have fallen away, though you were standing near
You made me feel alive with something that I didn't know I really tried to make it out, I wish I understood
What happened to our love, it used to be You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier
Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 13, 2001.
Our guest is Stephen A. Schwartz.
He'll be back in a moment.
He will be speaking at the 2001 International Remote Viewing Association Conference in Las Vegas, 14 through 18 June, at the Texas Station Hotel.
He'll be right back.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 13th, 2001.
Once again, Stephen A. Schwartz and...
Stephen may not have been in the military program, but he might as well have been, because certainly all the spooks and ex-spooks and people that I know that are heavyweights know him.
In fact, he comes recommended by John Alexander, I'm sure a mutual friend, Stephen.
That's true.
Stephen, you went down in the submarine.
I've got to hear how that came out.
There were two parts to this experiment, Art.
The first part was to see whether Psy was a radio phenomena, and the second part was to see whether it was possible, using this technique that I had designed for remote viewers, to locate a previously unknown wreck on the seafloor.
And the reason on the seafloor was that there was no possibility, if you get beyond a certain depth, that anybody could have snuck out in the night and cheated, you know?
Sure.
It was possible to ascertain whether the site was previously known or not.
So I sent out a chart of a standard sea chart prior to doing the experiment to seven people.
And they sent back.
Each of them marked their own chart.
And lo and behold, exactly as I had hoped in the methodology I was using, I put the maps on a white table and the circles overlapped.
And so I said to the people at the Institute, um, here's where I want to go.
And they said, well, we'll drop a ping or a radio homing device directly over that spot so that there won't be any chance that you stumbled across something else.
You'll just go to that one spot.
And we went down, we had received from the remote viewers.
I describe all this by the way, in the Mind Rover book and, and, um, And we made a film out of this, in fact, which you still see on the A&E channel or the History Channel.
But we dropped the pinger and we had the descriptions, including a description of a large granite block, about 5 feet by 4 feet by 7 feet, that Hella Hammett had described.
And so we got into the submersible and we went down.
First, we did the experiments to see whether Psy was a radio wave, and so I asked the guys from SRI, who were friends of mine, if they would be the outbound persons, the outbound people, the targets for the experiment.
At Stanford?
Yes, and we time-coordinated.
Ingo Swann and Hella Hammett, who were very well known and very well thought of remote viewers, We put each of them on independently, and then we went down to about 300 feet.
Because of Project Sanguine, we knew what the penetration rate was.
And we asked them, we also knew what the capacity of the brain to serve as a radio broadcast was, and also how much information it processes.
So we knew that if they were successful at this experiment, given that we knew what the ELF penetration was, given that we knew what the brain's electric potential was, Given that we knew what the rate of processing was, if this thing worked, there was no way that it could be done as a radio phenomenon.
We had a time-coordinated arrangement with the guys up in Northern California.
This was off of Santa Catalina Island, off the coast of Los Angeles.
And at the appointed time, they had a random number generator pick a target, and they went out there and And then we went down, and at a fixed time, we took a description from each of the remote viewers.
Hela went on the first dive, Ingo went on the second dive.
Actually, Ingo went on the first, Hela on the second.
In the case of Ingo, for instance, he said, well, they're in a kind of shopping mall, and it's got red tile, and there's this big wheel.
That turns around in the middle of this thing and they're looking in windows shopping and in fact they were at the Red Mill Shopping Center.
And then we came up and he went off and Hella got on board and we went down again and she said, well, I feel like they're hiding in a big tree on the edge of a precipice.
And she drew a picture of it and that was precisely Exactly where they were.
They were hiding?
They were hiding in a big tree.
On a precipice?
On a precipice.
I had another idea because of those codes that had worked out with Sandlin.
I wanted to see whether it was possible to do essentially a kind of substitution like that, and so created a technique called associated remote viewing, which of course has now been used by people all over the country, all over the world.
And the first experiment we did, when we tried this out about the radio waves, we said, well, let's assume that that description represented a particular message that we were trying to get across.
And so that experiment with DeepQuest was the first associated remote viewing experiment that had ever been conducted.
And it was an idea that I had had about, because I knew from some preliminary work that I had done, that It was very difficult for people to get numbers, remote viewing, and that sort of thing.
Names.
I mean, sometimes it happens, but it's unusual.
Whereas people are very good at describing images.
And so if you substitute a message for an image, then by association, you would be able to communicate.
So obviously then, we conclude that Remote viewing, whatever it uses, it is not associated with radio or ELF or anything like that, nor limited by that much ocean or anything else apparently for that matter.
That's right.
What then do you imagine, Stephen, what medium do you think that remote viewing is in fact using to transmit data?
Well, my own view is is that we are all workstations on the cosmic internet uh... by analogy you know i mean every generation has its analogy when i was growing up it was all mechanical electro-mechanical and you remember pictures in the world book of the the man and his sort of cutaway and you could see down in the stomach people were shoveling coal so today we're in computers so i would use a computer analogy and i would say
That I think we are all connected in a network of life, that all living things have consciousness, they are all linked in with this, and that we both inform and are informed by this information channel that we have.
What the channel is, I can't tell you.
Clearly, there is an aspect of human consciousness that exists outside of time-space.
It doesn't make any difference Whether you shield people or you don't shield people, it doesn't make any difference whether you ask them to go forward in time or backward in time.
It doesn't make any difference if you ask them to describe something that's a foot away or 10,000 miles away.
Clearly this information channel, to which we all seem to be linked, gives us information and we also give it information.
Well, I'm kind of with the scientists in a way.
There's got to be a conductive medium.
There has to be some kind of conductive medium.
I'm a ham operator.
I work with radio all the time.
I understand ELF.
I understand even going to the other side of the spectrum, to light and what have you.
Just somewhere, somewhere, there has to be some conductive medium.
Oh, I think there probably is.
I just don't think we know what it is yet.
Well, you think about it.
Did Benjamin Franklin anticipate radio waves, for instance?
No.
And it wouldn't have made any sense if you'd said to him, I've got this little box, and inside of it, when you look at the little box, there are pictures of people that are thousands of miles away.
Right.
Just because we don't know something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Are you up on and familiar with the story developing in Cuba?
Only what's in the public press and I heard a little bit with your previous guest Linda Howe.
Let me quickly read you something because I want you to understand what we're talking about.
This is a Reuters story, and you may have heard it, but here's part of it.
Most intriguingly, researchers using sonar equipment have discovered a depth of 2,200 feet, a huge land plateau with clear images of what appears to be urban development.
Partly covered by sand.
From above, the shapes resemble pyramids, roads, and buildings.
ADC, the company, is excited but reluctant to speculate until a joint investigation with the Cuban Academy of Sciences and the U.S.
National Geographic Society takes place early this summer.
We have now confirmed with National Geographic they are proceeding with this, by the way.
A continuing quote.
It is stunning.
This is Ms.
Zolitsky.
It is stunning.
What we see in our high-resolution sonar images are limitless rolling white sand plains.
And in the middle of this beautiful white sand, there are clear, man-made, large-size architectural designs.
It looks like when you fly over an urban development in a plane, you see highways, tunnels, and buildings, Zolitsky said.
This is off the coast of Havana, or Cuba rather, and we've learned tonight it's within Cuban territorial waters.
Pretty intriguing stuff, huh?
Absolutely fascinating.
Is this something you could possibly take a look at?
Well, you could organize a team of remote viewers and remote view it.
Yes, I mean, we know that remote viewing will provide information.
I mean, I've published papers on this and and uh... in fact uh... the mind rover book and uh... the alexandria project i mean basically uh... are comparisons between electronic remote sensing and remote viewing and
And remote viewing delivers the goods within its limitations.
Well, these will be just the kind of goods that remote viewing loves.
And these are allegedly just off the coast of Cuba, and they'll be videotaped by deep-sea submersibles in either July or August, sometime during the summer.
So it sure would be an interesting project to engage in sometime prior to that occurrence, wouldn't it?
It would.
In fact, I'll tell you an experiment you could do with your listeners.
Oh.
And I'd be interested in.
You could, I mean, we have to work out how the details of it would go, but it would be possible to have people remotely.
Let me start, let me step back up a little bit.
We know that we are going to see film of this in time.
Yes.
I mean, the geographic, I'm sure Bob Ballard is involved with this.
We will be seeing footage in due course of this.
That's right.
Urban center.
That's right.
But we also can agree That no one knows precisely, except these guys who had a preliminary look, what this stuff is.
Therefore, it would be a very interesting precognitive remote viewing experiment if your listeners, and I need to think with you a little bit about how this could get organized, but it can be done.
We've done mass tests through Omni Magazine in the past.
But your viewers could provide a remote viewing impression of what they think would be found, and we'd need to target it so that it didn't have to be over the whole area.
We'd have to put, like, a longitude and latitude coordinate on it.
I'm not sure we can do that.
They're being very tight-lipped.
The most recent information we have, as of tonight, uh... according to Ms.
Liskey's husband is that it is indeed in cuban territorial waters off which coast and at what uh... longitude latitude we don't know the intention is there and in what we've discovered in remote viewing is that intention is a very powerful force in this so i think that that can be gotten out of that doesn't that don't bother me i think what well how would you advise listeners in other words when i have them for example send in Oh, I don't know.
You could render on a computer and you could put a drawing of what you think you see below the sea there at that target, I suppose, and then have my listeners send all of that in prior to the filming in the summer.
Right.
Is that the kind of experiment you're talking about?
Yeah, and then you'd be able to... We'd set up a group that would set up a judging protocol to compare what the viewers described with what actually was discovered.
My guess is, from past experience, I know from a number of experiments that we've done in Jamaica, the experiments we did in Egypt, that I'm going to talk about at the Irva Conference, that the seawater itself is not a problem, and I would suspect that, based on past experience, that we would get very specific, testable information.
Well, of course, what is so intriguing about what you heard described is that it might be Atlantis.
It might be Atlantis.
Well, it might be.
I personally think That Atlantis is a precognitive myth, but that's another issue.
Well, you know, I'm told that the last ice age might account for all 300 feet, perhaps, in change of ocean levels.
But for something to be down 2,200 feet... Yeah, that's pretty remarkable.
That's almost a half mile, and I'm told that would represent many, many millions of years.
Well, it would be some kind of a major cataclysmic change, no question about it.
At least.
Whether it was related to... Well, we just won't know.
In fact, the interesting thing about this as a remote viewing target is that it's perfect.
It's completely unknown.
It's general location is known.
I mean, not the specifics, but the generalities of it.
And we're going to get evidence.
We will get a feedback presentation.
It is something that has high luminosity, high psychic interest.
People have a lot of interest in it.
So my guess would be you'd get pretty high quality viewing.
And yes, I think this could be worked out.
Actually, it's quite an intriguing idea as a matter of fact.
My poor email.
I see it coming.
Oh, millions.
Millions.
All over.
Well, I'm going to have to think about the logistics of this.
Yeah, exactly.
Because believe me, I did two national tests in Omni.
uh... some years back and and it's if there's a lot of logistics to this kind of thing but it's a fascinating idea okay uh... as it would be for you uh... personally if you have a team that would uh... is looking for something to do yeah listen uh... you know you're going to be talking about uh... egypt uh... when you come to las vegas which is now in just in hours let's see it's a primal should be free in the morning there is a good idea to leave you know a lot of six o'clock you're on an airplane Uh, will you talk a little bit about Egypt tonight?
Uh, sure.
I've been to Giza, been to Egypt.
It's, uh...
God, it's a remarkable place.
You just cannot go there without your mouth hitting your chest.
Chin in your chest, anyway.
So, it's an amazing place.
I was able to go inside the Great Pyramid and lie inside the sarcophagus.
It was an amazing place.
And when did you begin working?
Well, after we did the Deep Quest experiment, which, just to finish that off, by the way, We located a wreck that was previously unknown.
You did?
Yeah, yeah.
And that convinced me and impressed all of the research scientists that were working with me on this thing.
All the USC scientists who were involved.
It had a big impact.
When we photographed that block, we had a big impact.
But anyway, out of that I then thought, well, let's go do something uh... with this technique to solve a problem that everybody acknowledges that'll be a really interesting problem and i was drawn to alexandria because alexandria egypt uh... is not that it's not the pharaonic period it was fat city founded by alexander the great and it really represents a blend of of the east and west or the intuition in the intellectual any of the dualities which if you understand it properly is really a unity so i thought it was a perfect place to do it
Everybody acknowledged that no one knew where Alexander the Great's tomb was.
They didn't know where the library was.
They didn't know where Cleopatra's palace was.
I mean, everything about it was just perfect, just like the Cuban discoveries.
It was just perfect.
So I put together a team of researchers from five universities and institutions and... Well, just one quick question.
Just perfect, including the Uh, the possibility that somebody would, uh, on your word, uh, go investigate where you said to go investigate.
In other words, did you have that, uh?
Oh, I, we raised the money to do it.
You raised the money to do it?
Oh, absolutely.
I organized this thing.
There were about 45, it was filmed.
The entire thing was filmed, photographed.
It was, when it broke, it was on all the national media, but back in 79, 80, 81, All right, Stephen, we're at the top of the hour, so we'll bite into this hard when we get back.
Stephen A. Schwartz is my guest, and when we get back, we'll find out what he did, when he did it, and what it resulted in in Egypt, even though we sort of already know.
Wild stuff.
I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast to Coast AM.
you're listening to art bell somewhere in time tonight featuring coast to coast am from june 13 2001
oh please do me a favor and subscribe to my channel for more art videos. Thank you!
Oh, please, you need him!
My heart is on fire.
My heart is on fire My soul is like a...
An explanation to the dial that you gave In the air of the cat
She doesn't give you time for questions As she locks up your eyes in hers
And you follow to your sense of which direction Completely disappears
By the blue-tiled walls near the market stalls At the hint of door she leads you to
you These days, since I feel my life just like a river running
through the air of the can.
I'm just a river running through the air of the can.
I'm just a river running through the air of the can.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 13th, 2001.
There's something very appropriate about Year of the Cat when you're about to talk about Egypt.
Cats are very Egyptian.
Look at them carefully.
In fact, you don't even really have to look carefully.
They're just plain very Egyptian.
Egypt is a very strange place that all of you must get to if you have the time and inclination in your life.
I was there and I can tell you.
It's, uh...
It's inexplicable.
It's just something that you have to experience.
get your ticket anyways steven a schwartz will be right back
Bye.
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Now we take you back to the night of June 13th, 2001, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Alright, Egypt is a, uh...
It's a place you've just got to get to.
I had my tour, I was very privileged, I had my tour by the man who runs the entire Giza Plateau, Zahi Hawass, and he took me places where other people don't get to go.
It was remarkable and just remarkable, and there's no way to explain it.
You've got to see it.
Dr. Hawass showed me how the stones could have been split to make the pyramids.
And indeed, it can be done on the ground.
They can split these big five-ton rocks.
However, when it came time, and he's a real well-grounded individual, not given to flights of fancy, when it came to explaining how the blocks, particularly the big ones, were put in place, he didn't have a clue and said so.
Nobody has a clue.
Nobody's been able to duplicate it.
Nobody knows how all those things were built.
Stephen, what do you know?
Well, I actually think we know a little more than that, Art.
Do we?
I think Mark Lehner and Zoe Haas have given us a pretty good... I mean, they found the workers' village where the workers were.
Oh, I stood in it.
I know that.
Yeah, and they found the tools.
They've moved the blocks.
They've figured out how they cut the blocks.
That's right.
But what they did not explain to me was how the big blocks were actually moved up.
Well, they have done a line of blocks to test the idea, so there is a way it could have been done.
They now think, or at least the last thing I read was a paper about six or eight months ago, and that was arguing that it actually only took about 10,000 people instead of hundreds of thousands.
They've got the dating down pretty solidly now, so I think I think we know more about this than is generally recognized.
The funny thing is that a lot of stuff that people think of as sort of weird stuff doesn't turn out really to hold up very well when science looks at it, but that doesn't mean that there's not a lot of other weird stuff that really is extraordinary and for which there is just absolutely no explanation.
I mean, Si, we were talking about that earlier.
It's a good example of that.
There's no question that remote viewers have the capacity to describe persons, places, and events from which they're shielded by time or space.
Right.
But how they do it, we don't know any more about it.
In fact... Not a clue.
You could... Everything we know about psychic functioning, you could write on the back of an envelope.
It's real.
You could write that.
Yes.
You just wouldn't.
All right.
You can use it.
things with a bomb at the urba conference i'm gonna talk about
very specific things in egypt we we were focused on we were not interested so
much in the pharaonic period as the pala make period from from uh... alexander the great the cleopatra
uh... how did you find clear pressures palace uh... with remote viewing
i sent out uh... uh... uh... young by that point i had worked out a way to make the charts so that all the
colors of the maps were taken out.
I made them look like blueprints.
So there was nothing to cue anybody, and I asked people to locate it.
And they did.
And I asked Harold Edgerton at MIT, who invented side-scan sonar, to come over and do the side-scan sonar work for us to compare the results of side-scan with remote viewing.
And the side-scan was not able to operate Because very well, there was so much particulate matter, so much stuff in the water, that the signal was diffused.
But the remote viewers were just spot on.
And in fact, the French are now doing these excavations.
I was not able to do the excavations at the time because they turned on the sewage plant and raw sewage flooded the harbor.
But I have, in the Alexandria Project, Which has just been reissued with all of this new information.
You can get it off of my website, which is on your website, www.stephanashwartz.com.
But I have a map of the French discoveries and our discoveries 16 years earlier, and it's astonishing.
It's just point for point.
Remote viewing, when it is used properly, when it is analyzed properly, has the capacity To locate stuff very specifically.
George McMullen, for instance, a Canadian who is one of the greatest archaeological remote viewers we've ever known about, was able to locate little round tiles of inch and a quarter across at a 1,500 square miles.
And that's pretty good targeting.
It sure is.
But it doesn't seem like there are limits.
So once you understand the nature, Of remote viewing.
That wouldn't be so amazing if everything that we think we know about it is true.
There are really no limits.
That's right.
Time, space, no limits.
It's hard for most people to digest.
Most people are like me.
They're looking for a medium of transmission, like that scientist who wanted to push it.
You want to make you feel so much better.
You want to be able to put your hand on it and say, OK, here's how they're doing it.
Yeah, we don't tolerate ambiguity very well.
That's right.
We need three feet of kryptonite.
We can stop them.
No problem.
That's it.
But the truth of the matter is, Art, based on everything we know, is that This is a normal human ability.
I suspect, actually, all living beings have this connection with the cosmic internet.
What we're really doing with remote viewing is surfacing into conscious awareness a signal of information, an information channel, if you will, which you and I and every other living being on the planet is processing all the time.
But it occurs at a below conscious level, so we're not aware of it.
And what you do with remote viewing is just bring it up to the surface.
What does the fact that we can remote view in time say about the nature of time?
Well, that's a really hard question.
Yes.
In other words, if you can remote view the past and remote view the future, then it It must say something about the nature of time itself.
Is it malleable?
Is time malleable?
Is time... Yeah.
That was a yes?
Yes.
There are some experiments that were done by a wonderful researcher named Helmut Schmidt which suggest that it is possible to go back into the past when it was the present and change it from the future.
And what effects on the future How does that suggest occur?
Well, what it tells us is that all psychic predictions are really just probabilities.
The probability that an event is going to occur at that particular snapshot moment when the question is asked.
But it does not mean that it is predestined.
I mean, what it tells us is that we are in a much more fluid situation than we think we are.
We think of ourselves as trapped in time-space.
Personally, I think that this is the realm of the will, and that time-space is the longitude and latitude of intention.
All right.
I interview frequently Dr. Michio Kaku, Professor Kaku, and he's suggested that he believes time travel indeed will be possible one day.
And that if you were to go back in time and change something, the classic case of killing your grandfather or whatever, that indeed what would happen would be, and you know they're now talking about many, many dimensions, that what you would in effect do is create a new universe, a universe in which the change you had affected would play out.
In another parallel universe, but this universe would not be changed.
Well, I don't know.
I do know that our knowledge of what consciousness really is and what it means to be a human being, although considerably advanced in some ways, hasn't really changed very much from the Alexandrian philosophers, for instance.
You can read in early Greek philosophy, Pythagoras, or the name's gone out of my head right now, but the discussion of the idea of as above so below, the idea of interconnectedness of all life, all this sort of stuff that all of the, for instance, Eastern medical systems are based on, this idea of this sort of energetic I don't think it's energy as the word is typically meant in physics, but clearly this sense of life being connected, at least to me, looking at the evidence.
We're talking about evidence here, not speculation.
If you look at the therapeutic intent research that's being done at medical centers, for instance, the idea that the consciousness of one person can have an effect on another, The idea of remote viewing, the ability to describe persons or events in a distance or in time.
I mean, all of these things, when you see them collectively together, suggest to us that we need to alter our paradigm of how the world works.
And it's very painful because it means that a lot of things are going to be sacrificed and that a lot of people's careers ...who have a lot invested in the physical, materialist worldview, are going to suddenly discover, as people who used to teach phrenology, or people who were teaching... I don't know... Phrenology is a good one, the study of the head, the idea... They're going to suddenly be out of work!
Stephen, is there anything in all your years of remote viewing that would suggest to you that consciousness survives physical death?
I think there's very interesting evidence that consciousness survives physical death.
I don't know that I would see it in terms of remote viewing, but for instance, the near-death experiences of children that Wayne Morris was studying up in Oregon, you know, the reality, I mean, these are children that couldn't possibly know what we think about near-death studies.
You know, they're not reading yet, and the descriptions that they give Sound, first of all, like the descriptions adults give.
But there's nothing specifically within remote viewing that has suggested that to you?
No, no.
Well, yes and no.
I need to qualify it by saying that a number of my remote viewers, when we take them out on site, I'm going to get into this on my talk on Saturday, but a number of them, when you get them out on site, They sort of have to penetrate through layers of time, and when they move through those layers of time, they oftentimes encounter personalities that existed at that point.
I was out with George one day in the middle of Alexandria, which is a great big city, and we were walking along and all of a sudden his body contorted over, and you can see it in the film, I mean he was just, clearly I thought he was having a heart attack or something.
And I said, George, you know, what's going on?
And he said, Oh my God, they're torturing the children.
And I, I told him, you know, there was nothing.
It was, we were in the middle of the city.
And so I finally, I just didn't know what to do.
And I said, well, go earlier, George, go earlier.
And then he kind of cleared and he said, Oh, it doesn't exist yet.
It doesn't exist yet.
I'm okay.
Later on, we found that in fact, there had been a prison there, uh, And that children were, at one point, prisoners, and that they were tortured.
And this all came out of the straight archaeological, historical stuff, but at the time, we didn't know anything about that.
So, I think that there is a linkage there, but we don't really know very much about it.
Well, one more left field question.
No, I have never had an encounter with a non-human entity.
me up on my own i get any sleep have you i know you while you're playing leaves
uh...
really soon now yeah i'm going to really
uh... ever any encounters uh... with non-human or what what the what was perceived as non-human entities
uh...
no i have never had an encounter with the non-human entity i have
i have had encounters what i think our discarded that is people who were not corporeal
at that particular point
But I have never, and I have some thoughts about it, but I have never personally had an encounter with an alien, nor have any of my remote viewers per se.
Although at one time, We did do, actually, that isn't strictly true.
We did do a probe.
I just was remembering this.
I forgot all about this.
We did an experiment.
We were hired by a group of physicists to locate a flying saucer.
Oh?
And we did.
Wait a minute.
Hold it.
Back up.
is it what it's waiting for a group of a group of it how would you uh... how that just
slip by you uh...
group of physicists he forgot
of hired you to locate a flying saucer and you did
yet well as it turned out they were never able to
i don't know whether we did We were never... I would say to you that based on the other experiments we did, that about 50% of the material is non-evaluable, and of the other 50% it is, about 70% of it's accurate.
But why would a group of physicists come to you asking you to locate a flying saucer if they didn't know one had apparently come down somewhere?
This was a group of guys in California, and since I don't have permission to use their names, but these were all university physicists.
Yes.
And they got interested in the Roswell incident.
Oh, yes.
And they decided that maybe there was a flying saucer somewhere, so they gave us a map of the United States.
We started with that and gradually worked our way down, and we finally described for them Um, where a craft was.
I don't suppose you can tell us?
No, I can't.
It's a non-disclosure agreement.
But what I can tell you is, we don't, I don't know that it's accurate.
What I said about the 50% thing is that based on the fact that there is a high level of accuracy, I suspect something is there.
But what it is, I don't know.
it was in an area where they would could not obtain permission to go
and so we were never able to test the idea
the hypothesis remains i still do have the information and um...
and i i i think that you know i can you've just put it in my mind again i'm thought about this
in some years to go back to those guys and see if they would give me
permission to release the and will look at obviously followed up
It's 3.30 there.
You've got to be on a plane at 6.
Lots of luck on getting any sleep before a plane flight that soon.
But I want to thank you for being here.
And listen, we obviously should do a full program.
So maybe when you get back and I return from vacation, we can schedule a full program.
What do you think?
Ah, well, okay, sure.
Can I give a final little plug for Irva?
That's why you're here.
Okay, well, let me tell you, I think this is going to be a good conference.
The astronaut Ed Mitchell is going to be the keynote speaker.
Russ Targ is going to be a speaker, who's one of the original researchers, along with me, in remote viewing.
Dean Radin's going to be a speaker.
Paul Smith, who you know, I think, from your show.
Oh, I know Paul, sure.
Is there a phone number?
There is a phone number.
It is 866-374-4782.
And there's even a website.
It's www.rvconference.org.
All right.
We've got a link up to that.
And I'll repeat that phone number here in a moment for everybody while I get a pencil and some paper.
And let's us do a show, all right?
Oh, sure.
Absolutely.
And also, I want to say that uh... this this all this material
on the trip i'm going to cover this on saturday and it is also in my book
sunday we got a better project in mind over and thank you very
much for it you have a great night tonight
you're listening to our bills somewhere in time on premier radio networks
so much along for a presentation of coast to coast a m from june
thirteen two thousand one
the was just
the The End.
I hate the world today.
You're so good to me, I know, but I can't change.
Tried to tell you, but you look at me like maybe I'm an angel underneath.
Innocent and sweet.
Yesterday I cried.
I must have been relieved to see the softest side.
I can understand how you'd be so confused.
I don't envy you.
I'm a little bit of everything.
I'll roll into what?
I'm a bitch!
Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's program originally aired June 13, 2001.
Good morning, everybody.
Boy, what a fascinating man Stephen Schwartz was.
He is.
He'll be here in Las Vegas.
As a matter of fact, on his way to Las Vegas in just about three hours.
Two and a half hours.
I just booked him for July 6th.
I absolutely couldn't let it get away and that's why I'm late from the break.
I was sitting there negotiating a good date with him because he was just so incredibly interesting.
So, July 6th.
We'll have Stephen A. Schwartz back.
In the meantime, If you would like to attend what's going to be obviously an incredible conference, the 2001 International Remote Viewing Association Conference in Las Vegas, from June 14th through the 18th, there is a number you can call.
It's a toll-free number, and Stephen will be back when he'll have more time.
It seemed like a no-brainer, so I sat here sort of negotiating the date and blowing away my break.
Oh well.
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Looking for the truth?
You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
Let me ask you this.
What is going on to necessitate this so quickly?
There seems to be a deadline in their brains and they need to get this done.
They know their whole new world order is inches from going up in flames.
So they're afraid of the awakening and they know that their collapse is about to take place because we've been asleep at the switch and we've let incredibly corrupt interests take control of our society.
Now we take you back to the night of June 13th, 2001, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
The first break I've blown in a long time.
Ha ha.
The man so fascinated me that I had to nail him down, and I guess that's what it took.
Alright.
We're going to go in open lines.
There are a few things that I would like to call to your attention before we do.
Number one.
Just prior to showtime, about an hour before showtime, I called Bugs.
Bigfoot Bugs.
And the answer is no.
The answer is his wife will not let him.
And I can't really say that I blame her.
And I really thought that a few days of careful consideration, rather than the emotional moment of the program last, was the time to do that.
And I'm very, very glad I waited, because there are a lot of very serious issues at stake here, and I'm sure not the one to make the decision.
Only bugs could make that, and or be influenced to make it, and I perfectly well understand The Veto Power of Woman.
The Veto Power of Wife.
For I too have experienced it with even lesser matters like jumping out of airplanes and going hang gliding.
Matters like that.
I personally experienced the Feminine Veto.
So I know how it goes, and I don't know where the story is going.
I told him at the end of the conversation, if you change your mind, if there's new thinking on it, you know who to call.
In the meantime, I've got your back, and I do bugs.
You know that.
The map, the information is all sealed and unavailable to any human being, until you say so.
The Pravda site in Russia, the Pravda, you know, they're the big A newspaper outlet in Moscow, in Russia, and they are leading a story tonight that is amazing.
Not a surprise, but kind of amazing.
It reads, as 40 years have passed since Gagarin's flight, new sensational details of this event were disclosed.
Gagarin was not the first man to fly to space.
Three Soviet pilots died in attempts to conquer space before Gagarin's famous spaceflight.
According to Mikhail Rudenko, Senior Engineer Experimenter with Experimental Design Office at, and they actually give the location, on Thursday, said that a spacecraft with pilots Lereshchinkov, Shiburin, and Mitov at the controls were launched from the Trepistan Yar Cosmodrome in 1957, 1958, and 1959.
All three pilots died during the flights.
And their names were never officially published.
This is all breaking tonight.
He explained that all of these pilots took part in so-called sub-orbital flights.
In other words, their goal was not to orbit around the Earth, which Gagarin later did do, but rather make a parabola-shaped flight.
The cosmonauts were to reach space heights in the highest point of such an orbit, then return to the Earth.
According to his information, The pilots were regular test pilots who had not had any special training, according to Interfax.
Obviously, after such a series of tragic launches, the project managers decided to cardinally change the program and approach the training of cosmonauts much more seriously in order to create a cosmonaut detachment.
Anyway, there you have it.
Three died before one made it.
And in noting that, the kind of flight they were taking is very much like the man in Oregon that we have talked to, who plans to launch himself, the Rocket Man, in May, I believe, of next year.
And that date has, by the way, become hardened.
And I will go to that launch if he really does do it.
But he should bear in mind, the Russians, with all they could do, killed three before they did it.
Now, once again, I will be going on vacation.
I want to remind the audience, on the 21st of June, I'll be taking my monster RV and barreling down various highways.
During that time, I've been asked again and again, will I use a CB handle?
Yes.
Millennium Master.
Millennium Master will be the one.
So if you hear that screeching on CB on the way, well, you'll know it's me.
Item two.
Yesterday, a caller asked for photographs of the RV.
They're up on the website right now.
In fact, they were up on the website five minutes, maybe four minutes after the caller asked for them yesterday.
Because we had them, all we had to do was put a pointer to them, and Keith did it like that.
I want to read you the entire NASA Aims to Move Earth story.
I mean, you've got to hear this to believe it.
I now have the long form story.
Entitled, NASA Aims to Move Earth.
Scientists have found an unusual way to prevent our planet from overheating.
Move it to a cooler spot.
All you have to do is hurdle a few comets at Earth and its orbit will be altered.
Our world will then be sent spinning into a safer, colder part of the solar system.
This startling idea of improving our interplanetary neighborhood is the brainchild of a group of NASA engineers and American astronomers who say their plan could add another six billion years to the useful lifetime of our planet, effectively doubling its working life.
The technology is not all that far-fetched, said Dr. Greg Laughlin of the NASA Ames Research Center in California.
It involves the same techniques that people now suggest could be used to deflect asteroids or comets heading toward Earth.
We don't need raw power to move Earth.
We just require delicacy of planning and maneuvering.
The plan put forward by Dr. Laughlin and his colleagues involves carefully directing a comet or an asteroid so that it sweeps close past our planet and transfers some of its gravitational energy to Earth.
Earth's orbital speed would increase as a result and we would move to a higher orbit away from the Sun.
Engineers would then direct their comet so that it passed close to Jupiter or Saturn, where the reverse process would occur.
It would pick up energy from one of these giant planets, later its orbit would bring it back to Earth, and the process would be repeated.
Now, let me go on.
Here's where it goes on from what I had yesterday.
In the short term, The plan provides an ideal solution to global warming.
Although the team was actually concerned with a more drastic danger, the Sun is destined to heat up in about a billion years and so seriously compromise our biosphere by frying us.
Hence, the group's decision to try to save Earth.
All you have to do is strap a chemical rocket to an asteroid or a comet And then fire it at just the right time, added Laughlin.
It is basic rocket science.
The plan has one or two worrying aspects, however.
For a start, space engineers would have to be very careful about how they directed their asteroid or comet towards Earth.
The slightest miscalculation in orbit could fire it straight at Earth, with rather devastating consequences.
It is a point acknowledged by the group.
The collision of a 100 kilometer diameter object with Earth at cosmic velocity would sterilize the biosphere, most effectively, at least to the level of bacteria.
They state all this in paper in Astrophysics and Space Science.
The danger cannot be overemphasized.
So, if I'm reading this correctly, everything down to bacteria would be gone.
If they made a very slight error.
It is a point acknowledged by the group.
They also are vexing a bit about the question of our moon.
Anybody forget that one?
As the current issue of Scientific American points out, if Earth was pushed out of its current position, it is, quote, most likely the moon would be stripped away from the Earth, end quote.
Radically upsetting our planet's climate, to say the least.
These criticisms are accepted by the scientists.
Our investigation has shown just how delicately Earth is poised within the solar system.
Nevertheless, our work has practical implications.
Our calculations show that to get Earth to a safer, distant orbit, it would have to pass through some unstable zones, and would need careful nurturing and nudging.
Any alien astronomers observing our solar system would know that something odd had occurred, and they would realize an intelligent life form was responsible.
And the same goes for us.
When we look at other solar systems and detect planets about other suns, which we are now beginning to do, we may see that planet moving has already occurred.
It would give us first evidence of the handiwork of extraterrestrial beings.
And as I said earlier, I had one emailer responding to the first part of the article before he heard about how careful the calculations would have to be, before he heard, no doubt tonight, that our moon would be stripped away as a consequence of this.
He simply wrote in the header line, NASA Three exclamation points.
Ha!
Hey, Mo!
Hey, Mo!
So, I don't know.
The global warming solution would probably be not very many years out.
The sun heating to the point that we would have to move the planet, well, that's a billion years out, so no problem.
But the global warming part of it could mean that we would have to make this move, well, pretty soon, actually.
And I wonder how you all feel about changing neighborhoods.
I mean, would that be wild?
To look at the night sky, and it wouldn't be the same old night sky anymore.
As Earth moved, quite clearly, our position toward everything and our relationship to everything would change.
So the night sky would kind of go cattywampus.
the way the sun uh... hit the earth would be cattywampus everything would
be cattywampus as we moved can you imagine that
even in your wildest dreams can you imagine weekend flooding
in labs beneath the texas medical center killed more than
thirty thousand animals and destroyed what one official called an incalculable
amount of scientific research
Rising water in medical center basements and local universities wiped out federally funded research worth millions of dollars.
meticulously kept computer data, were fried into electronic oblivion, and some students lost years worth of their doctoral work.
That's part of what went on in Houston.
The weather, folks.
I'm telling you, the weather.
At this time of year, where I live, not too far from Death Valley, In the little town of Pahrump, Nevada, in Nye County.
Everybody asks me, what is this Kingdom of Nye?
It's N.Y.E.
Nye County, Nevada.
I believe that we are the largest county in the United States, by the way.
And so the Kingdom of Nye, naturally, is referring to Nye County.
Where at this moment, it is 62.6 degrees.
Now let me tell you a little bit about where I live.
Normally, by mid-June, The temperatures here should probably be approaching the 110 mark.
At night, the temperatures probably shouldn't be going below about 90 degrees, and as I just mentioned to you, it is now 62.6.
We are having an extremely, extremely odd spring here.
In other areas of the country, the violent weather has been Incredible.
And is going on at this hour.
The Plain States are getting hammered.
Houston was just hammered with something that was almost inexplicable for the weather people.
The weather is, in fact, getting scary.
There can no longer be any doubt about that.
Only about where it's going and how drastic it's all going to get.
You heard Linda Moten-Howe refer to the North Atlantic Drift.
And I think she was probably referring to the possible changes That could occur rather radically and quickly for Europe, should something in the drift change, as we speculated about in the book, The Coming Global Superstorm.
So, the weather's getting pretty strange out there, folks, and we're all going to keep a close eye on it.
All right, all of that said, I wanted to get all of that out.
and i've got a little bit more but we'll just sort of hold it and take at least
one call before the uh... the break either east of the rockies you are on
the air are good morning good morning
thank you for a bit of all that stuff and i try not to
to me basketball is
it's or Squeak!
You listen to it on the raise.
Squeak!
i thought i saw a big uh... of big
sign they put up on a bridge uh...
the walton bridge That's right.
Wishing them well.
We'll talk about public space.
I was calling about the sunken city.
Ah, yes.
First of all, have you seen any indication of whether the region in question is considered
international waters?
Oh, no, we got news on that today.
This is the first time tonight, in tonight's interview, it was confirmed for us that it was Cuban territorial waters.
And you don't happen to know offhand what Cuba claims, do you?
No, sir.
Okay.
That's all I don't know.
I can tell you it's in Cuban territorial waters.
Because I think what the salvage rights according to the UN treaties and so forth can get pretty complicated.
Right.
Exactly.
Second, the Disney film Atlanta is premiering very soon.
I just thought that's a fascinating coincidence.
It's not all that unusual.
Somehow, so many times when you get these movies, you get something in real life to go with it.
So, I'm surprised, but I'm not surprised.
And, you know, I asked Linda how at the end of the interview Last but not least, I don't know if you're familiar with the writings of H.P.
of the cold war and even since then you know damn well there are navy has
explored the cuban territorial waters are really carefully and they know what's there
if anybody would know our navy would know right at this rate
now it's not something they probably talk about but you know they know
last but not least i don't know if you're familiar with the writing of h p
lovecraft uh... to some degree s i just uh... reading a short story
of a few weeks ago and just uh...
run about story about pumpkin the uh...
and elder god dwelling upon the ocean
and uh... all sorts of nasty things and doing I thought, you know, well, is this thing 2,200 feet under the water for a reason and are we better off
We should leave it, uh... There are some things better not known, right?
Exactly.
Alright, I appreciate the call.
Thank you.
Thank you and good night.
Some things better not to know about.
Fools only would rush in.
Well, we're fools.
Look at the fools on our tax dollars planning to move Earth.
Forget the moon.
Earth, let's go!
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 13th, 2001.
This is a tribute to the late and great John Lewis.
I'm missing you Only through the rushing
But I'm fading, fading Falling in love with you
Shall I stay?
Would it be the same?
I'm in you You're in me
I'm in you You're with me.
Cause you gave me the love, love that I never had.
You gave me the love, the love that I never had I gave you the love, the love that I never had
I gave you the love, the love that I never had I gave you the love, the love that I never had
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 13, 2001.
I've got a secret source at ABC News.
And I say secret because I don't want to give his name and blow his cover, but he gets me a lot of information.
And he says, hey Art, don't know if you've got it, but That CIA factbook covers things like territorial claims.
That's the CIA factbook, folks.
According to that, Cuba claims 12 nautical miles.
But they also claim a 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zone.
For the record, I believe the U.S.
also claims a 200 mile exclusive economic zone.
Well, gee, we cover each other's territory then, don't we?
But it sounds like 12 nautical miles.
So this sunken city, in all likelihood, is within 12 nautical miles of Cuba.
Oh, there you have it.
That's the apparent answer.
Wouldn't be an economic zone in question here.
here it would be 12 nautical miles.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 13th, 2001.
Alright, once again, we dive into the night and open lines.
Wild Card Line, you are on the air.
Hello.
I thought this was a first time caller line.
No, it's a wild card line, but it doesn't matter.
Okay.
This has been... I'm in Colorado Springs.
I take it you're a first time caller?
Yeah.
Okay.
So I'm a little nervous.
Anyway, I tried to get in whenever you had bugs on.
Yes.
And I was just wondering, is there a difference between a Yeti and a Bigfoot?
No.
Same thing.
Apparently.
Yes.
Names for the same thing.
Okay.
I've been listening to you for about maybe three weeks.
I didn't even know you existed, actually.
But in Colorado Springs, you're on like about six different stations.
That you can hear?
Yeah.
Actually, we wouldn't be on six stations in Colorado Springs, per se.
They would get real upset about that.
Well, all over the dial.
I hear you.
But being a very big cynic, You're a very entertaining program.
Well, I'm pretty big cynic, too.
Really?
Yeah, actually, I am.
I'm one of these show-me people, and I don't embrace very much as absolute belief until I can put my hand on it.
Yeah.
Well, the first show I heard was the one with the demon possession, and you had him on tape.
Oh, yes.
Yeah, that... You really are new.
Yeah, that really caught my attention.
So I've been all over your website listening to your past shows and stuff.
Oh yes, we go back many a year.
Yeah, I want your job, man.
Do you?
Hell yeah.
Well, maybe you can have it.
Listen, anything else?
No, that's it.
Okay, well then you can wait for me to expire or retire, one of the two.
Somebody will come and get it.
And this reminds me of what somebody said last night.
I've long been in dispute about this.
I am replaceable.
Everybody is replaceable.
People say you're not replaceable.
You're irreplaceable.
Wrong.
That's wrong.
Somewhere there is somebody who can essentially do what I do, which is nothing all that special from my point of view.
There is that, and so hopefully this kind of format, this show, will continue forever and ever.
It is an aspect of the human condition.
That has long gone woefully under-examined, and it needs to continue.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello there.
Hello.
Hello.
Yes, sir, you're on the air.
Hi, Art.
How are you doing?
I'm fine.
Where are you?
I'm in Hollywood.
Hollywood, California?
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir.
Okay.
Okay.
I've been trying to get in touch with you about two weeks ago.
When you were talking about the shadow people and everything.
Yes.
This was a week from last Saturday.
I took my cat out in the backyard.
And I lived close to the Paramount Studios.
And there's a lot of other studios around in this area.
And a lot of electricity.
Anything.
Anyway, something caught the corner of my eye.
And what I saw was something about the size of like an F-14.
That was kind of like, if you took an etch-a-sketch... In the sky, I take it?
In the sky, about 200 feet up.
Oh, that would be very close.
Very close.
Actually, at that distance, you should have no question in your mind.
No, no, no.
It wasn't F-14.
Oh, no, no.
It was pretty big.
Well, I mean, at that... That close, an F-14 would be real obvious.
I mean, it would come screeching over you, just like a Banshee.
Yes.
And it was sideways, but it had a black outline, and it was gray, and then it kind of did like a brody.
Really?
And then all of a sudden, when it finally had faced the sun, because the sun was setting, I got back from church at about 6.15, I took the cat out at 6.30, and when it finally was head on with the sun, it turned Totally black.
I could see it head on.
Well, so you're telling me it was not an F-14?
Oh, no, no.
No, this was a shadow ship.
A shadow ship.
Well, I suppose the shadow people need a way to get around.
I don't think I would be the only one that would have seen this.
This one, I smoked a cigarette watching it.
Oh!
This was not just like a here and there.
This was, like, it was there.
Well, now, just for comparison's sake, an F-14 at 200 feet would be here and gone before you could take a puff.
I mean, like that.
So, this thing, hovering.
Yes, this was hovering.
Definitely not an F-14.
No, no, no, no, no.
In fact, it had, if you're familiar with the program called Stargate.
Oh, yes.
They have those kind of those like shadow crafts.
Yes.
They look like little pyramids.
Yes.
That's what it looked like.
Well, that's interesting.
So you saw a shadow person craft?
Yes.
I don't know how you could exactly know that shadow people are inside.
Well, that's the only way I could describe it.
That's the way the craft behaved.
I appreciate your call.
Thank you.
I suppose, as I said, the shadow people would need a way to get around.
I just don't know what to do with this topic.
You know, we've heard from Ed Dames.
We've heard from others.
Ed says they are shadows of ghosts.
The reports won't quit.
The story won't quit.
More and more people are seeing these things.
I have no idea what other than to continue to monitor The situation, and I suppose be the focal point for these reports.
I don't know what else to do.
First time caller on the line.
You're on the air.
Hello.
Hi.
Hi, Mike.
Hi, Mike.
Where are you?
I'm in Bandon, Oregon.
Okay.
And I wanted to get ahold of Bugs.
Talk about the Bigfoot.
No, I'm sorry.
I appreciate the attempt, but Bugs Address, Bugs Identification, Bugs Map, all of that are off-limits until Bugs says otherwise.
And so I'm not putting anybody in touch with Bugs, including Robert W. Morgan, I'm sorry to say.
I really thought I was going to get a yes.
But again, I understand, I really do, How it became a no.
And it's the exact reason why, instead of plunging ahead, and had I done it that night, it would have gone ahead.
And I could have given the information, you'll recall, that night to Robert W. Morgan, but I really felt that because of the gravity of this situation, Buggs really needed a few days to kind of chew it over.
And I had a feeling that this might happen.
His wife said no.
Well, Cardline, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hi, Eric.
About the guest you had on earlier?
Yes.
Could you explain to me how someone with the ability to remote view would forget that they remote-viewed a flying saucer?
Wasn't that remarkable?
Well, you know, they do so many projects, and very interesting projects, that yes, I guess it could happen.
I mean, here's a guy who uncovered stuff in Egypt.
Here's a guy who went Uh, in a submarine, uh, more than 300 feet down to conduct an experiment.
I mean, he's been at it for years, so yeah, he could've, you know.
Hey, just maybe I'm, I'm trying to connect it to those, uh, I think Targ and the other guy you had on when you asked, when that, that big pregnant pause.
Yeah, they're all, yeah, that's right.
They're all, they're all friends.
They all know each other.
He's, he's right up at their level.
And even, uh, Dames, I, I called the other night.
I was taping the show and I, you know, I asked him about the shadow people, but I asked him more specifically about these rogue beings and he'll, I mean, you talk about a pregnant pause on that one.
Then he said, well, that's connected with the UFO, and I can't talk about that right now.
It just kind of makes your ears go up, but everybody hesitates on that.
You know, in that group of remote, you know, that elite group, they seem to like pause on that all the time.
I know.
That's because there are things, obviously, they're not going to tell us.
Even Thunder, one guest, you had Thunderstrike.
Yes.
Remember when you were talking about the shadow people and those rogue beings came up and he said the same thing?
He goes, I can't talk about that.
I remember.
Yes.
Just amazing.
Okay.
All right.
Thank you very much for the call.
One thing is obvious and I'm past the threshold for me on remote viewing has been passed.
In other words, I am now just a plain believer.
Remote viewing is real.
I don't think there can be any argument about it.
I think James Randi ought to take it on.
Quack, quack, quack.
Mr. Randy, quack, quack, quack.
You really ought to, Randy.
You know, it's your chance.
I know it's a million, but it's your chance.
And all you've got to do is confront some of these real remote viewers, and then part with your money.
Quack, quack, quack.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hi, Art.
Hello, another cell phone.
Yeah, um, this, uh, remote viewing is, uh, Yes.
Why are we so of missing people?
Because we have many more missing people than we do remote viewers.
I don't know if that's the way they tried to make their money.
we have a millionaires that there help looking around for people
i don't know if that's uh... the way they tried to make their money i'm sure
they could do it and they do look at murders and they do look at missing
people but look at the number of murders and missing people versus
the number of It's ridiculous.
They wouldn't stand a chance.
So if your question was, why do we have missing people, the answer is obvious.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hi.
Turn your radio off, please.
It's off.
Thank you.
I just had a couple questions, wanted to ask you.
You're on another cell phone, aren't you?
I am.
What are the odds of this?
One after another.
It's like audio punishment.
Maybe I've died and I've already descended and I'm just being punished.
I'm sorry.
The only time I get to listen to you is in the car when I'm driving from Salt Lake City to San Diego.
I see.
Well, glad to have you anyway.
Well, it's great to have you on the air when I'm tired and trying to drive and you make it worthwhile.
Music after a while will lull you to sleep.
It does.
It does.
It just puts me right to bed.
Anyway, I had a couple of questions wondering if you could ever get a guest on that could possibly discuss stuff like the hydrodynamics of water pressure on top of, say, like a whole civilization of people or animals and stuff like that, kind of like Noah's Ark and what that would do with stuff like carbon dating, you know, because as far as I understand, carbon dating is You know, how you measure how old something is by the amount of carbon that it's absorbed.
Correct.
And I'm just thinking, at the bottom of the ocean, like with this whole Cuba thing they found, you know, how old are things really going to be?
I mean, how much carbon has been absorbed because of the amount of pressure exerted on it?
I'm not sure that carbon dating works that far back.
I mean, if it's really millions, well, maybe it does.
Maybe a dollar.
I thought that it was more accurate in the hundreds of thousands of years, but I'm a little foggy on that.
Okay.
Well, I was just wondering maybe, you know, with that kind of pressure, because it's tremendous, tremendous pressure, you know, how, you know, just like a small silk covering of like an animal at the bottom of the sea for You know, a year or so, even.
How much carbon can be absorbed?
Well, I think for biologicals, it would be a very quick disappearance, indeed.
But for large architectural buildings, it would be a very different story.
Right.
So I would think that there'd be some degree of preservation, actually, as compared to being out in the weather.
That sort of thing.
By the time you're down at the bottom of, you know, half a mile of water, there's a certain preservation that takes place.
I see, I see.
So I'm really excited to see this and see what happens and compare the remote viewings to the actual viewings.
Alright, well I think we're going to do that.
I think we're going to have a great remote viewing experiment.
It is ideal.
He was certainly correct about that.
He was a fascinating guest.
We'll get him back July 6th.
At any rate, I like the idea of a mass experiment.
Would you all like to participate in that?
There's only one way I can think that we can do it.
I'll tell you what.
Let me hold this for tomorrow night, earlier in the show.
And let me think a little more about it and make an announcement, but I think I know how we can do it.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi, Mr. Bell.
Yes, sir.
Have you read the book called The Seer?
The Seer?
This is another cell phone, isn't it?
Yes, I'm sorry.
I'm a guard out in the middle of the field.
In the middle of the field, huh?
You're a guard.
Yes.
I had to call you to see if you'd ever read the book called The Seer.
It's very interesting about some of the ideas that they had about... You know, I've heard of the book, but I haven't read it.
Okay.
It was just about some of the planets and how they're being formed and stuff now.
The book, The Seer, this was written back in the 1800s, and they said that, you know, we broke off.
They said time and space is basically The universe is falling.
The earth spins.
The whole universe is falling and that creates time.
The universe is falling.
I believe the universe is expanding.
There's good, solid scientific evidence indicating the universe continues to expand, and surprisingly, at a faster and faster rate.
So much so that eventually we will be virtually neighborless.
Yeah, I believe that.
Anyway, expanding and falling is, you know, kind of the same thing.
In a way it is, yeah.
Right.
Anyway, the book was interesting.
It said that in the beginning, you know, like the Bible, the planets broke off from another mass and became different planets and then, you know, eventually became inhabited with life.
Well, that would have been the Big Bang.
And nobody really knows what that was all about.
Something supposedly smaller than a quark, and a quark remains theoretical, I believe, that something smaller than a quark suddenly became everything that is.
And when you begin considering that, then you are talking about the God Force.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air, hello.
Hey, Ray, Art.
Yes.
What do you, yeah, what do you think of those, those Shows like Fear and Scary Places.
You know, I haven't seen Fear yet.
I'm dying to see it.
Well, I kind of think those shows are kind of fake.
I don't think, I really don't think that any insurance company that would represent those shows would allow anybody to go into a place that was really haunted and end up getting sued.
Well, there's one way you could find out for sure.
How's that?
Get on one of those shows.
That's true.
You ever thought about doing that?
Nope.
Why not?
I don't know.
I don't know.
I'm not in too big of a hurry to go to a place like that, to be honest with you.
I see.
Well, of course, I've kind of thought the fact that the place I work at might be a little haunted.
I work at a hospital.
Oh, you do?
I've been around for a few years.
A Catholic hospital.
I've heard stories about that.
I've never seen anything really bad, but I've heard stories that the place is kind of haunted.
Well, I don't know what to say to you, but if you do this in your work, then why not be a real cynic and say, hey, what the heck?
I could be on one of those shows and go on.
That's true.
I don't know.
I'll give it some thought.
However, privately, sir, I'm with you.
I wouldn't go on.
I wouldn't either.
I'm with you.
Have you seen The Weakest Link?
Uh, no.
Oh, you haven't seen... Oh, you should check that out.
There's the meanest lady in the world that runs that.
Oh, that's why I don't like the show, because I think... I would... If it was up to me, if I could ever meet her, I would probably say, you know, your catchphrase is the same thing that Stalin and FDR said to Churchill at Tehran.
Yalta.
You are the weak... Winston, you are the weakest link.
Goodbye.
All right, sir.
Thank you.
She is... Oh, she is so mean.
And I have, you know, if you've been watching the program, and I have, she's getting meaner as she goes.
So apparently, meanness in that case means ratings.
Meanness equals ratings.
And she has discerned that wisely, and she is becoming meaner and meaner.
And while it's fun to watch, I have discerned that it would not be fun to participate in.
Uh, receiving comments like, is there any beginning to your knowledge?
And much worse, it's getting much worse, believe me.
Alright, we've got a break here at the bottom of the hour, and we'll be back with more of whatever you're offering on Open Minds.
I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 13, 2001.
Well, I dig a digger down about an hour ago.
You could look around you with a window With a little girl in a Hollywood bungalow
Are you a lucky little lady in the city of light?
Or did you not a long think you're...
All of time shall come...
All of time shall come...
you You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 13, 2001.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 13, 2001.
Ah, NASA wants to move Earth.
NASA aims to move Earth.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Just one little decimal wrong.
One little zero left out.
And here comes the sun.
Or, more accurately, here we go into the sun, or it's goodbye sun, or maybe it's hello rock.
I've been contemplating this idea now for some time.
What it would be like to actually move the Earth.
Stick around.
We may find out.
Now you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and streamlined fashion.
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Now we take you back to the night of June 13th, 2001, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Back into the unknown of the night.
East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
Hello.
Is this Art Bell?
Yes, it is.
Turn your radio off, please.
This show's not broadcasting right now.
No.
Okay.
Chow, chow.
West for the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Art, it's Mo again.
Mo, you're only allowed to call once, partner.
Oh, no, but I'm on a different line.
It doesn't matter.
One call per night, I don't care what line.
I don't care if you're telegraphing it to me.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
Hello?
Hello?
Yeah.
Turn your radio off, please.
Hey, Art, what's happening, man?
You.
What can I do for you, sir?
My name is Miles.
I just wanted to tell you, you've got a great show, man.
Thank you, man.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
Hi, how you doing, Art?
I'm doing okay.
Hi, this is Brandon from Portland, Oregon.
On a cell phone.
I'm sorry about that.
I'm at work.
I don't know if they'd like me coming to Vegas, you know?
I understand.
Hey, if you don't mind, I kind of had a quick comment on last night's show on that Bible Code.
Yes.
I just kind of found it interesting, kind of like what you were saying, when he was saying that the code, the actual Bible was written by 40 or 50 people inspired by God.
Yes.
I found that kind of intriguing because my understanding, kind of coming from a religious background, was that the Bible was more written by, you know, apostles and disciples and such things that were there and that saw it, and from my standpoint, The discrepancy, in terms of the Bible, more came from how many times was the Bible rewritten and written again, and who had translated in between that.
But also important would be who originally wrote it.
And these were two scholars of ancient texts, and though they had disagreement on the Bible Code issue, they both did agree on the issue we just discussed.
And that is that about 40 Forty, they believe, people who received the divine inspiration of God wrote the Bible.
Right.
I just kind of found that interesting, just because it seems kind of odd to me, because there's a lot of people that are inspired every day by God, and they could turn around and write something down with their own inspiration.
Well, that's what I was trying to point out.
Right, yeah.
And you know, that much time, 450 B.C.
four hundred and fifty bc until what uh... twenty five hundred years later roughly uh...
good heavens Yeah, I was in total agreement with you.
Just thought I'd point that out because I think that's mainly where the discrepancy falls in, not necessarily who wrote the Bible, because I mean, I think that's pretty much set in stone where that came from, I think.
Like you and me pointed out, the discrepancy mainly falls in.
I mean, 2,000 years is a long time to keep translating things over and over again, so.
Appreciate the call, sir, and I certainly agree with you.
I don't know.
It doesn't, as I said last night, it doesn't rock my faith in some sort of creation, or creator, and a creation that occurred, because I believe that.
I really do.
Even the physicists shy away from explaining the moment of creation.
They can't.
Nobody can.
And so you might as well believe there is a creator.
Particularly for what it implies with regard to your immortal soul.
Right?
Close to the Rockies?
You're on the air.
Hello.
Hello, Art.
This is Gary from San Diego.
Yes, Gary.
And I have a theory.
I really believe that Sasquatch, or Bigfoot, like some people say, is dropped down at various places by the UFOs, and as a test, kind of to see how they, you know, and then pick them back up, and it's like an experiment.
And then if they're detected, or for some reason, about every six months, they seem to relocate them.
And that would explain why there are no remains ever found.
If they get in any kind of difficulty, somehow they communicate that and are immediately airlifted out of the area.
And if they're injured or ill or whatever it might be.
And I've been thinking about this for a long time.
And I really think that's the way it works.
Because they'll be spotted in an area for a few weeks or months.
They're gone.
Your answer is as good as anybody's.
Thank you.
What does that make them, though?
In other words, why would an alien civilization... Well, why would we send a dog or a monkey up in space?
And I've been in the space program, by the way.
I'm in the Navy.
And I have a lot of experience with Skylab, for instance.
And I have a lot of information that...
I've got from various sources in the Navy and I was on many Skylab pickups and they would do a lot of experiments that they would tell you they're doing experiments when in actuality they're doing manufacturing in outer space.
I know this for a fact.
Sure, I believe you.
I have been on the ships.
I've been on USS New Orleans.
You can bet all kinds of things like that were done, sir, for defense needs, sure.
little experiment or that one and when they're actually producing 100% absolute pure magnesium
germanium, silicone, they make defense equipment.
You can vet all kinds of things like that were done, sir, for defense needs, sure.
They need new materials, some of which can only be manufactured in space and you know
darn well that's going on.
You know, I would like to understand with regard to our president's pressing for a missile
defense system, exactly what or who we're building this to protect.
Bye.
I wonder if any of you have the same questions.
Now, I guess it's the old SDI idea, really.
A missile defense.
Able to take out missiles in the boost phase.
Able to destroy them from space.
That's really SDI, right?
So it's SDI come back.
And I understand the Chinese certainly have capabilities, although not great capabilities.
So, just for the record, I'm not opposed to the idea of a missile defense system.
I would simply like to know exactly who we're designing it to protect against.
Russia?
Perhaps?
What's left of the old communist bloc, imagined to be reassembled?
Are we protecting against that?
Are we only building a small-scale system to protect against a random missile from a rogue country?
It doesn't sound that way.
It sounds a lot more comprehensive, and it's going to be very expensive.
I would like to understand exactly the parameters of who we're concerned about.
How about you?
Longhorn Line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hi, Art.
Hello.
Tim Collins from Anchorage.
Yes, Tim.
You know that there's only one book in the New Testament that there's no author?
Genesis?
No, in the New Testament.
Oh, New Testament.
I'm sorry.
That would be Hebrews.
I believe Genesis also is sort of minus an author, really.
Yeah.
But one book in the New Testament, that's Hebrews.
Yes.
And people say, well, some people say, well, Paul wrote it.
But if you look at Stiles, you're familiar with Stiles.
Paul didn't write it.
I mean, I read it and it came from a really arrogant person.
And you can see it.
And in this is where they establish 10% is the sacred duty of the priesthood of Melchizedek to collect this money.
And they also say, in so many words, there's no reincarnation.
Where in other places, in other books, They speak of reincarnation.
Well, and in fact, we all know the Catholic Church essentially voted out reincarnation.
Voted out.
Humans, people, voted out reincarnation.
Right?
The Vatican, they voted it out.
So these are the actions of people.
And again, I'm not I'm not really saying that as a result of this, I don't necessarily believe that the Bible is some sort of authentic document.
I'm just saying that reasoned people can question its origins.
Can't they?
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Good morning.
Hi, I'm in Satellite Beach, Florida.
Yes, sir.
And I'd like to propose a response to you as far as shadow people and your question about the satellites.
In the ballistics, if you were to observe a particular area of a constellation in a starter, there is a beam of energy that is like a beam of light that can be spectrumized and you can figure out where it's coming to you, and it's coming to the Earth.
You just made the comment about how they're saying, we've got this going on in the shift in the Earth.
It's, you know, the constellations move, the Earth doesn't.
If you go 10, 100, 1000 years ago, the Big Dipper expands.
You're saying the Earth doesn't move?
No, no, no.
I'm saying that the Big Dipper, 10,000 years ago, it was more elongated.
Yeah.
But my point is, is that a beam of light is coming to the Earth.
from constellations.
And these are the people I believe after this Bible thing that are coming to recapture the
dark side of the shadow people, what they left in that blank period of time of 2000
years when they left in the pyramids, the covenant.
I am not following you at all.
Shadow people.
Shadow people were first named on October 5th, 1957 when the first artificial satellite
was launched, actually it was the third from Russia and it put the first beep out.
It was in an east-west orbit.
Bye.
You're really losing me.
You started talking about the light from constellations and stars, then you're talking about shadow people, and you're talking about the first launch, and I don't see how it all fits together.
Okay.
Conduit people.
Of the shadow people.
No, goodbye.
Now you've really lost me.
Conduit people of the shadow people.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Well, good afternoon.
Turn your radio off, please.
And good afternoon.
Where are you?
I'm in the East Bay, California.
Well, it's real dark there.
Oh, yeah.
Not afternoon at all.
Yeah, well, my timer's a little off.
Anyway, I've been listening to the Keeping Up with the Bugs dilemma and I actually listened to the original interview about three years ago and I've got that on tape.
I listened to the more recent one and I compared the two and I really tried to delve into it.
I even took notes.
And at the very end of the second interview, I was left pretty much in the shape that you were, and Dr. Morgan, I believed it.
I still believe it.
It was very sincere, and he was emotional, and he spoke his mind.
I could have, sir, I could have, at the end of that program, at that moment, turned over all the information, because I had permission to at that point.
Maybe I should have, to Robert Morgan.
I just had this feeling that given a little time to think about it, he would make a different decision.
And he did.
Well, the reason I'm calling is because as believable as he was, and I walked away from that show believing it, I've had a couple days to chew it over and I kind of changed my mind and I've I've got five basic points here that kind of pop up as red flags, and I'd like to throw that your way.
Point one, I try to put myself in his position.
If this was weighing on my conscience so heavily and I wanted to get rid of it and have it over with, he could have anonymously given you the information and anonymously giving you a map
well it was obviously
way past uh... what when he first went on the air with me if you
remember the first interview
yeah there was no in check when he went on the air for anybody to go dig up
anything it developed into that as we got into the story so he was
i don't know i i see what you're saying actually take issue with that because if
you recall in the first interview he had that he had two other friends
there would have to be a unanimous agreement by recall three of them yes
or anything could go forward That's right.
Okay, point one was that he could have anonymously done this and not attached his own identity to the events in any way.
Except, here's the problem with that.
If he'd say, sent me the map, the chance that I would have acted on that without hearing his story, without hearing the compelling story, I mean, I get tons of mail.
It comes in by the barrels full.
And I can guarantee you, sir, I'd have looked at it and said, hmm, but would I have gone to Texas and tried to dig something up?
No way.
Oh, I understand.
Based on a mailing.
No, I wouldn't dare shoot down the entire story.
Especially an anonymous mailing, sir.
I would not have acted, I guarantee you.
Yeah.
Well, let me give you the other four points very quickly.
Point two.
His two friends, he said they had pictures.
He said all three of them had pictures.
And he was originally in touch with them.
They had moved away out of Texas, he said, but he was still in touch with them.
And he could have got in touch with them in order to make some kind of agreement and get the photos with their permission.
Point three is that he said Uh, in the first interview three years ago, that his house burnt down and his photos burned up with, with the house.
So why wouldn't he then go to the other friends and at least provide you with those photographs?
You know, I have got to go back and listen to that because I don't even remember the whole photograph thing, but okay.
Yeah, well, the issue of the photographs didn't even come up in the second interview, which was kind of strange.
Well, that's probably why it probably got dismissed in my mind if they were destroyed.
But I don't even remember the taking, so that shows you how much I remember of it.
Wow.
Okay, well, I just listened to it just yesterday.
Okay.
Anyway, let's see, point four is in the second interview, he said that he no longer has any way to get in touch with these other two friends.
He did say that, yes.
Yeah, and originally he said that was no problem because, you know, he would have to contact them to get a unanimous vote to move forward with anything.
And I'll tell you, if an event like this occurred between three people, you'd think it would create a bond lifelong.
Well, either that or the exact opposite.
I mean, if there was a suspicion, for example, that you might have killed human beings, It would be something that you would repress and suppress, and as a result of that, you might not contact the others involved.
It might be sort of a guilt trip.
That's very true.
There are three wives in the equation, possibly.
That's right.
But in this case, one is enough.
Right, right.
Well, the final point, you just touched on it.
The fact that he has come forward and given you his phone number, his address, his name, Um, that alone, from the standpoint of authorities, would be probable cause for them to come forth and contact you and demand that you give them his name.
I'd go to jail first.
Well, that's honorable.
It really is.
No, that's just a deal I made.
I mean, I absolutely promised.
And so, I mean, that's that.
Well, I'm just saying that if there were any investigations of the burial site, if Dr. Morgan or anyone else went out there, I don't think the outcome would be any different than, you know, as far as the authorities are concerned.
Then it should be just given the fact that he came to you and he identified himself and said he committed these acts, you know.
The truth is, I don't think the authorities Would act on it either way because you know you're you're listened to by millions Well, I will tell you where I believe and I do believe this if we dug up bones or remains at that point Believe me somehow the authorities would become very involved at that point.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, but I also think that there would be a Great effort on your part and dr. Morgan's and others to make sure there are scientists out there to say that Okay, hey, look, Mr. Policeman, this is not a human skull.
Yeah, if that's the way it turned out.
Yeah.
I don't rule out the possibility that what we're dealing here with could have been a double murder of some kind, implying humans.
Yeah, yeah.
So... Well, I just wanted to give you the red flag, that's all.
And there were plenty of aspects of his story that were believable, as you know.
Yeah, I know.
I walked away believing it myself.
I have two very quick, unrelated questions to this.
Well, I'm not sure that we're going to have time.
You can hear that theme music.
The program is ending.
Okay.
Maybe we can do this another time.
All right.
Thank you.
Tell everybody out there goodbye.
Well, good night, everyone, and you might want to look over your shoulder.
You always look over your shoulder.
Well, Bubs' wife, for the moment, has had the final word.
And I say for the moment, because it certainly is not a dead issue.
Not as dead as what's in the ground.
I do retain the map, and I retain the information, which will be held until I'm given permission to do something with it.
I'm Art Bell.
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