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May 30, 2001 - Art Bell

02:54:28

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Richard Perez, ed. Home Power Magazine

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	Welcome to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 30th, 2001.
	From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning wherever you may be across this great land of ours and beyond.
	Commercially from the island of Guam, the rock out there across the bait line where it's a different day altogether.
	It's kind of time travel actually.
	Eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands.
	South into South America.
	North all the way to the Poland.
	Worldwide on the Internet.
	This is Coast to Coast to Coast to Coast AM.
	Indeed, all around the world on the Internet.
	And I'd like to welcome yet another new affiliate, KVEC, in San Luis Obispo, California.
	Central Coast.
	Nice place.
	Beautiful place.
	KBEC.
	They're 920 on the dial in San Luis Obispo, California.
	Welcome.
	Glad to have you on the network.
	Let's wait and see what you're in for.
	Listen, every night, like clockwork, prior to the beginning of the live show, which is right now, we pre-feed to all the stations on the network three hours of the previous night's program.
	So, some of you may be already getting it, some of you may want it.
	The stations, be aware, we do pre-feed three hours every night.
	All right.
	You know, I think the first thing I want to talk to you about, I got an email here from John Menendez.
	Or Mendez, I guess it actually is.
	Simply says, Art, it's getting hotter every year today.
	May 30th, 2001 was the fourth hottest day in San Francisco history.
	It's 101 degrees.
	The three hotter temperatures were 102, 103, and 103.
	Each of the three hotter days were either in late June or July.
	But this is May, Art, and it's 101 degrees here in San Francisco.
	The quickening is here, said John.
	Yes, John.
	It's certainly underway.
	Our weather is changing and I think at this point the argument about whether or not it's changing should just about be dropping and we should instead be preparing for what the change is going to bring.
	In other words, I think that generally temperate climates are not going to be so temperate anymore and it's going to make a big difference in the short term forget the long term that's probably fairly grim but the short term the next few years there's going to be i think a significant uh... continued change in the weather this is not a prediction of change because the changes already occurring earlier today on cnn
	They were running a headline at the bottom of the screen that said, shrubs are beginning to grow in the tundra.
	Things are growing in the tundra that never were growing before and shouldn't be growing at all.
	This is a ground that stays frozen, or at least did stay frozen.
	CNN also did a very interesting piece showing global pollution.
	And what it's doing, and how it's tracking around the globe.
	I don't know how many of you got to see that, but it was a graphic, a computer graphic, not a prediction, but present a reality about how pollution is moving.
	And it's pretty interesting.
	Here in the West, recently, a couple of weeks ago, we had a dust storm from China.
	That's right.
	For about three or four days, everything got almost foggy.
	Only it wasn't fog, it was very fine dust particles from the desert in China.
	And clearly, temperatures are warming.
	So, at this point, my advice to people who make policy would be to begin to make policy that would include the changes that are now occurring.
	I don't really think we're going to do a whole lot about changing it, modifying it.
	I think it's going to continue on its trek to getting warmer.
	Now this is going to have meaning for us, and at some point we've got to sit up and say, okay, so how do we play it?
	If the heat is moving north, then that's going to move farming in some way, and it's going to create ultimate difficulties for our farmers at present latitudes.
	Looks like we might have to consider this stuff pretty soon.
	Otherwise, let's see what's going on in the world.
	McVeigh may indeed now file a request to block his execution for the Oklahoma City bombing.
	The request would be based on about 4,000 documents the FBI turned over to McVeigh's attorneys earlier this month.
	Just days before he had been scheduled to be executed for carrying out the blast that killed 168 people, injured hundreds more.
	It's odd.
	He wanted to be executed and then the FBI found these documents and then all of a sudden he didn't want to be executed.
	So I'm not sure what's going on there.
	Our Treasury Secretary, now here's some good news for you.
	Paul O'Neill said today he will seek To speed delivery of the checks, that's right, up to $300 for individual taxpayers and a maximum of $600 for couples in the first such national tax refund in 25 years.
	Refund, I said.
	Most of the 95 million taxpayers eligible for rebate checks probably will see them in their mailboxes in September.
	So they're actually going to give a little bit of your money back.
	The Bush twins are in Dutch.
	The 19-year-old twin daughters of the president apparently tried to buy illegally some alcohol at a restaurant.
	Police responded to a 911 call last night from the manager of a restaurant in Austin who said minors were trying to buy alcohol.
	So, they're in Dutch, but, you know, they're twins, they're 19, and most of the parents out there, I think, probably are not altogether too shocked at this.
	Remember when you were 19?
	Here's a little interesting tidbit.
	Computer users across Europe should encrypt all their emails to avoid being spied on by a United Kingdom slash U.S.
	eavesdropping network.
	...say Euro MPs.
	The tentacles of the Echelon network stretch so far that the UK's involvement could constitute a breach of human rights, say they.
	The Euro MPs have been studying Echelon for about a year now, after allegations that it has been used by the US to commit industrial espionage against European firms.
	They conclude that Echelon, whose existence is not officially acknowledged, kind of like our Area 51 here, is reading millions of emails and faxes, that's right, faxes, sent every day by ordinary people.
	That would be you and me.
	But the committee says ordinary individuals and companies are now being spied on and they should routinely encode their emails and faxes if they want them to remain private.
	Sending an unencrypted email, they say, is like posting a letter without an envelope.
	The report says the UK could fall foul of the European Human Rights Commission, which guarantees privacy to all individuals.
	So, the non-existent Project Echelon is perhaps a human rights violation in Great Britain.
	What about here?
	What about the good old Fourth Amendment?
	We do have, in America, these rights to privacy, don't we?
	Do they not extend into the realm of electronic communication?
	Emails?
	Faxes?
	Whatever method you might use to send a message to your friend or enemy or whatever.
	Don't you have a right to privacy?
	Now, on the one hand, you could say, and I do, you know, who cares?
	I don't care who reads what I write.
	I talk about on the air most of what I write or read, for that matter.
	So, what's the big deal?
	And, of course, that's really true.
	But the principle is, we have this Fourth Amendment, and it really should extend to our private communications.
	So I wonder how you all feel about that.
	Do you agree with me that, you know, on the one hand, ah, who cares?
	Because they're really, you know, I'm not doing anything wrong.
	I do certainly discuss some very sensitive subjects on the phone with people.
	But even at that, I don't really care.
	I don't really say anything that I would have anybody, that I would be concerned about anybody hearing.
	On the other hand, you know, there's private family matters, and it's none of anybody's damn business, and so there is this Fourth Amendment side that says... Well, let's put it this way.
	One might imagine this to be justifiable under the guise of national security.
	I might buy that.
	But are they limiting what they're using the information for to national security?
	We have no way of knowing.
	Because it's all secret.
	And it's very real.
	60 Minutes did quite a piece, you'll recall, on Echelon.
	And it's got to get you thinking a little bit.
	The government itself in the UK is saying, look, everything said ought to be encrypted.
	Well, I would think that even Echelon, for example, if you were to get PGP, Pretty Good Privacy, and you encrypted your email and you sent it off, that would be more likely read, wouldn't it, by Echelon?
	Do you think Echelon can break PGP?
	I would suppose they can.
	I know there are some claims that the earliest versions of what's called PGP, Pretty Good Privacy, Can't be broken, but everything that can be made, so far as I know, can be broken.
	So I wouldn't think even that would guarantee it.
	In fact, it would probably flag it.
	You know, if they've got something obviously encrypted, they're going to be all the more curious, right?
	So, I don't know.
	Your comments certainly would be welcome.
	We're going to do open lines first hour, and then next hour, particularly in view of how the weather is going.
	and the power situation the present power situation you might stick around and if you do you're going to save some money a serious amount of money perhaps and you're going to learn some things you didn't know because we've got Richard Perez who is the publisher of Home Power Magazine on tonight and we're going to talk about the power crunch but probably for you more importantly We're going to talk about how you can save a lot of money.
	I'm serious about that.
	A lot of money.
	Power bills now are getting to be not such a joke.
	talked to a man recently who has a business in san diego and his monthly power bill has gone from about twenty
	thousand to forty thousand to sixty thousand and he thinks it's
	going to top a hundred thousand and potentially put him out of business
	can you imagine that In San Diego?
	Anyway.
	Open lines.
	Coming up shortly.
	stay right there You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 30th, 2001.
	♪♪♪ All right, to the phones we go.
	Open lines until we get to Richard Perez from Home Power Magazine.
	And as I keep saying, and I really mean this, this program tonight will mean money to you, if you listen carefully.
	Quite a bit of money, actually.
	Here we go.
	East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Good morning.
	Yes, hi, Art.
	Hi.
	I'm calling in regard to a little trend I've noticed in Japanese animation.
	In what?
	Japanese animation.
	Japanese animation, alright.
	Are you familiar with the Tomokai?
	No.
	The Japanese relic from several thousand years ago?
	Yes, I've heard of it.
	It's been turning up in kids' TV shows.
	One example is the Digimon, which is being aired right now.
	Right.
	On Fox Network.
	Yes.
	And I just want to know if you could No, but that's what web searches are for.
	So you go to one of the search engines, enter that, and I'm sure you'll get all the world's information.
	That's what's good about the Internet.
	If you don't have the Internet and wonder why you ought to get it, that's the answer.
	Any subject you care to know about.
	can be discern boom like that you can go to one of the many of fine search engines on the web enter a single word or phrase and literally have in front of you all of the information possible on that subject including the one you just mentioned So, if you've been iffy on the Internet, you know, should I really get a computer and get involved?
	Yes, you should.
	It is a resource that, in today's world, you can't do without.
	You really, I mean, you could do without it.
	You could say, the hell with it.
	But if you really want good information, the Internet is the only way.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes, hello.
	Extinguish your radio for us.
	Oh, yes.
	Hello, Art.
	Can I tell you a kitty kitty survival story?
	A cat survival story?
	Yes, sure.
	Go ahead.
	Okay, recent move, people going in and out of the house, leaving the door open and I pleaded with them to shut it because I had a spooky cat.
	Yep, I understand.
	And he disappeared.
	Of course.
	And I was just devastated, moved into the new house.
	How far away?
	Approximately five miles.
	Five miles away, sure.
	And all of a sudden I started having, like I said, I was devastated, all of a sudden I started having these dreams about this cat being in a box in the storeroom in the back of my house, the one that I vacated.
	You're kidding.
	No, I'm not.
	Oh my.
	And I called the lady up and I said, he's out there.
	He can't get out, he's in a box and he's either dying or he's dead.
	And, uh, they said, poo-poo, we can't hear a thing, we haven't heard a sound.
	Yeah.
	Three and one half weeks later... Oh, God.
	That cat moved out into the house, walked over to the lady and put his paw out.
	We don't... and she brought him to me and he was thin as a rail and, and, and just dehydrated and everything else.
	But he survived.
	He's a wonderful cat.
	Black cat!
	Wouldn't you know?
	That's an incredible story.
	How could he live?
	I would love to hear somebody tell me how he could live for three and a half weeks without water or food.
	I'll speculate on the air.
	That's all I can do.
	I'll speculate that the cat got out of the box and in the basement found a few stray bugs or something.
	He ate a mouse.
	But I don't think that a cat could live that long without water.
	I have no idea.
	That's an incredible story.
	And there are incredible animal stories.
	How they do it?
	Who knows?
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Well, good evening, Art.
	Good evening.
	Pleasure to talk with you.
	This is Greg calling from Springfield, Oregon.
	Yes, Greg.
	I wanted to check with you about the face on Mars, just briefly, if that's possible.
	It sure is.
	Excellent.
	I'm sure you're aware of the exploded planet hypothesis.
	Oh yes, Dr. Van Flanderen.
	That there was a body orbiting near Mars, or perhaps even Mars was the moon orbiting a planet nearby.
	Yes.
	And that when that exploded, it covered the surface of Mars about 60% with extra debris.
	Also, it probably at that time knocked Mars out of its current Or out of its, at that time, rotation, because it's no longer... Well, there's also speculation that it stripped the planet of the atmosphere and all the rest of it.
	Exactly.
	Well, the placement of the face on Mars is located at what would have been the old equator.
	And it also is located north and south.
	The faces align north and south with the old rotation axis of the planet.
	Well, how do we know what the old axis was?
	Well, I believe they can tell that magnetically, because the rotation of a planet will set up a magnetic field due to the rotation of the planet.
	And it's just like the iron core within the Earth, our magnetic field, it's like a gigantic motor.
	The planet itself rotating.
	Yes, but our axis is not dependent on the magnetic, in other words, we could do a magnetic switch and it would still remain on axis.
	True, but the magnetic field is going to run through the poles.
	Correct, one way or the other, yes.
	Right, so if our planet were to cool, be knocked off of its current axis, we'd have an old magnetic Field running through what was no longer our axis.
	Our rotational axis and magnetic axis would be different.
	All right.
	Hold that thought.
	Hold that thought.
	We're at a break point here at the bottom of the hour and we'll be back to you.
	All right?
	Thank you.
	All right.
	Stay right there.
	Yes, if what he's saying is... Well, I'll let him unwind it for you.
	From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM.
	This is Premier Networks.
	That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	on this somewhere in time.
	Far, we've been traveling far.
	BYE!!
	Without a home.
	Not without a star.
	Free.
	Only want to be free.
	We huddle close.
	Hang on to a dream On the boats and on the planes
	They're coming to America I'm coming to America
	I'm coming to America Creating some improper sound
	and the correct posture Those movements tell me who I am
	and who I am and who I am
	and who I am You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from May 30th, 2001.
	We are the frogs.
	That's right, we are the frogs.
	Think about it a little bit.
	The old thing about the frogs, slowly warming in a pan.
	They wouldn't know it, would they?
	We're slowly warming here in the pan and most of us don't know.
	Now we take you back to the past on Arkbell Somewhere in Time.
	We're slowly warming here in the pan and most of us don't know.
	Thanks for watching!
	We are the frogs.
	And I'm just one little frog who's starting to notice it's getting a little warm around here.
	Speaking of shadow people, there was an ad for After Dark.
	Tomorrow night, I've booked a kind of an interesting guest.
	Dr. Morgan Spence.
	And she has been researching shadow people for 11 years.
	11 years!
	In fact, she has a website up.
	ShadowBeings.com.
	We've got a link on it for, you know, tomorrow night's guest appearance.
	Just thought you'd want to know.
	Second person I've found who knows about Shadow Beings.
	Be very interesting to see what she has to say.
	I continue to get emails in the thousands on that subject, and as you know here on the phones, when we open them up to live calls.
	So tomorrow night, Dr. Morgan Spence on Shadow People.
	You're back on the air again, sir, and we're talking about Mars.
	Thank you.
	Specifically, the face on Mars and its orientation to what was probably a planet that had orbited in the distant past.
	Right.
	And the face, the way it is designed, it's straight up into the air.
	Right.
	Relief, so it is likely designed to be seen off planet.
	Correct.
	Not necessarily on the planet, because it's not on a cliffside facing the Earth.
	You have a good vantage point on the planet.
	I'm with you.
	Yep.
	If you're on that planet and you're looking at the face, it would be basically straight up and down with the orientation of the planet.
	When the planet goes into, or the Mars, rotates and has a shadow that crosses the planet, the shadow itself is going to divide that face in half twice a Martian day.
	That's right.
	And everything else passes.
	Exactly.
	Yes.
	Well, at certain times, from the vantage point of this planet, you're going to have half of that face covered, and it's going to look like a lion or a feline face, and give the impression that the entire face is a feline.
	And the other shadow crossing, it will cross and give the impression that it's a hominid face in entirety.
	That's right.
	Because you'll have one face in full sun, and one face in full shadow.
	Right.
	And I think that gives credence to both the face being a dual face with different halves and the exploding planet hypothesis.
	All right.
	Well, I appreciate your call, sir.
	And that's if you think that the face remains viable as an artificial construct.
	And I can't say that I view it that way based on the most recent High-resolution photos.
	I do see how the controversy continues, because it is easy to see how those of you who imagine a lion's face on one side see that.
	I can see how you put it together in your minds.
	I can look at, you know, the right side, which is pretty much collapsed, and if I look hard enough, I can see it.
	It's just, as I said with the program with Richard, and it remains that way.
	And by the way, the audience, I would say, is about 50-50 divided on artificiality.
	You'd probably want to know, out of the gazillions of emails that I've had, it's running about half and half.
	Half still buy it as artificial, and this half-and-half theory, and others don't.
	So it looks like the controversy will continue.
	It's just after the high-res picture.
	I'm sort of in the camp of those who think... Mesa.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Art, good morning.
	Good morning.
	This is Stefan calling.
	I'm west of the city of Philadelphia.
	Okay.
	Go, textures.
	Yes, sir.
	Okay, first of all, faith on Mars.
	Right.
	Has anyone ever brought up the likelihood that there may be something underneath it?
	Well, I mean, it's been thought about.
	And certainly some motion pictures recently have suggested that.
	To what effect?
	Oh, you didn't see Mission to Mars?
	No, actually, uh, I just, uh, I think I probably missed it.
	Okay, well, you'll catch it.
	Anyway, what do you imagine might be inside?
	Well, uh, there could be, well, what I'm getting at is something similar to the Hall of Fanks.
	Well, could be.
	What do you imagine to be inside?
	A power source, uh, maybe some sort of time capsule, perhaps?
	Hm.
	Maybe.
	Anything that is not going to knock the socks off of our collective consciousness.
	Well, either one of those would do the trick.
	I hope so.
	Sir, thank you very much.
	Pleasure to take care.
	Wes to the Rockies.
	You're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Turn off your radio, please.
	There you go.
	Where are you?
	Phoenix.
	All right.
	Welcome.
	I thought I'd mention a couple of things.
	Yeah, but I put her on hypnosis, and she can do several things.
	She's very psychic, and she can remote view.
	Turn your radio off, sir.
	I'll have to leave the line.
	Can you hear it still?
	Yes, turn it off, please.
	It's off now.
	Okay, good for you.
	Now continue.
	And some of the things that she's come up with is, she sees the pole shifting.
	And here's the surprise.
	I always challenge her on some of these things because I go back over some of the things that she says, but she says that it moves and then it's moved back in a position again.
	And I'd say, by whom?
	And she says, them or extraterrestrials.
	Which is pretty far out, but maybe they've got the power.
	I don't know.
	Well, not if you were listening last night.
	It's not far out.
	In fact, if you were listening last night, the invasion's underway and has been for some time, in modern times.
	Not that long, said the good doctor.
	Not that long, but in modern times, it's been underway for a while now.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Well, thanks Art.
	I'm calling near Sequoia tonight, you know, who is over there too, son of a bush himself.
	My question is, did you happen to have the opportunity, because you do have a busy schedule, to see the last of the seven-year Star Trek Voyager?
	No.
	No, I sure didn't.
	You're right, I've got a terrible schedule, and that prevents me from seeing most television, actually.
	Well, I guarantee you will find that interesting.
	Time travel and time paradoxes was portrayed, and Oh, I am sorry I missed it.
	Well, you can always catch a re-run.
	There's going to be movies, and there is going to be another series, and boy, if I had to pick a TV show that most reminded me of your quality work, it would have to be Star Trek, my favorite show.
	Well, there are a lot of parallels, and a lot of what's going on right now in modern, cutting-edge science and physics is beginning to approach what was originally on Star Trek.
	So yeah, Star Trek has been a pretty reliable predictor so far of the future.
	I guess science fiction in general has.
	Is life imitating art, or is it the other way around?
	You know, that's a good question.
	You ever really wonder about that?
	Which really is it?
	Do we, uh, does a fertile mind write a particular episode for something like Star Trek, suggesting something really far out, and does some physicist watch that and go, you know, by God, there might be a way to do that.
	Or, uh, is science leading?
	I don't know.
	You've got to wonder a little bit.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air, good morning.
	When I push the button, now I think you're on the air, good morning.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes, hello.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	Okay, hang on a second.
	Yes, I will.
	Everybody have your radios close by, so when I surprise you and come on the line, you can... There we go, it's off.
	There you go.
	Good.
	Proceed, sir.
	Pardon me?
	Proceed.
	Oh, is this our bell?
	Good guess.
	Oh, okay.
	I'm the only one here.
	It's the only possibility.
	Okay, what I want to tell you is that I have an idea, actually I have one working, of an energy device.
	The guy you have is into energy, but I'll tell you about it.
	What kind of energy device?
	Free!
	Free!
	I knew it!
	Free!
	Free energy!
	I'll tell you what, you could easily verify it for yourself.
	Won't cost anybody a penny?
	It could power the cities and towns of the world without costing one penny?
	Right.
	If it just weren't for those damned oil companies?
	No, no, no, no, no.
	No?
	This is very simple, okay?
	What it is, here's how you validate for yourself.
	Next break.
	Uh, find yourself a piece of rusty iron.
	Rusty iron?
	Right.
	Yes.
	Uh, file off a shiny spot somewhere.
	What, what was that?
	File off a shiny spot somewhere.
	File off a shiny spot?
	Right.
	On the rusty iron?
	Yes.
	And then take your meter, multi-meter.
	Yes.
	Hook one side of the shiny spot, and one side of the rusty.
	Ah, that's dissimilar metals, yes.
	Yes.
	Uh-huh.
	From dissimilar metals, there's a voltage developed.
	Yes, I know.
	And what goes on with rust is you have essentially a tunnel diode there.
	And so, you're right.
	But how much of this would we need to power, say, the average home?
	Well, it converts room temperature to electricity.
	You didn't answer my question, sir.
	Oh, how much of it?
	Yeah, how much of it would we need to power the average home?
	If it was assembled properly, okay, you can get about 10 amps a square inch.
	Oh, come on.
	Oh, come on.
	The current limit.
	Look, what you could measure with the test you just described for me would be hardly detectable.
	You could barely detect it.
	You get somewhere between 20 and 100 millivolts, depending on how thick the rust is, actually.
	20 and 100 millivolts.
	Now, all right, thank you.
	The high side of that you just named.
	A hundred millivolts would be what?
	It would be a tenth of a volt.
	Right?
	A tenth of a volt.
	So, interesting but bonk.
	Correct in what you suggested with regard to the experiment.
	Wrong with any sort of application.
	Even the smaller one that I mentioned regarding the house.
	No, no, no.
	First time caller on line.
	Your turn.
	You're on the air.
	Hi.
	Art!
	Yes?
	Oh my God, man.
	You're the man!
	Thank you.
	Don't talk too loudly.
	You're on a bad cell phone and you're distorting your peaks.
	So just gently speak to me.
	Okay.
	Can you hear me okay now?
	That's better.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	All right.
	I wanted to relate to you my experience with the shadow people.
	Okay.
	Let me see.
	I'm so nervous, man.
	I hope I can get it together here.
	All right.
	We don't have a lot of time, so just sort of lay it out.
	Okay.
	Well, what happened was I woke up in this dream.
	I don't know how else to explain it.
	It was kind of a lucid dream, and I was in this rickety old bed.
	It was like a really worn out mattress and I was kind of sinking down in this bed.
	Right.
	And I looked over in the corner and well first I must mention that it was like when I woke up in this dream it was like it was just a fear permeating this room and I wasn't sure what I was even afraid of I just I woke up in this dream and it was like this fear.
	Yeah we've all had that hair on the back of the neck you know something's going on.
	Yeah so I had this fear, like the fear was feeding on itself.
	And the more fear that I felt, the more the fear increased.
	And I saw this shadow come out of the corner of the room, and it started coming towards
	me.
	And the fear was just, it was growing.
	I could feel my heart.
	Well, I've had a number of guests, sir, who have suggested that these creatures, whatever
	in God's name they are, or maybe we shouldn't associate his name with them.
	Either way, they feed on fear.
	Yeah, I didn't exactly have the name for it until I heard that one guest on your show who said how they did feed on fear.
	Well, tomorrow night I've got a guest who claims she's been studying these for the doctor for 11 years.
	Can you believe that?
	11 years?
	Wow.
	Well, can I finish this dream that I had?
	Yeah, go.
	If you call it a dream, I thought it was a waking dream.
	Well, it was like a lucid dream.
	It was definitely an altered state of consciousness.
	Yeah, that would be a waking dream.
	Okay, well, as this figure approached me, it got closer and closer, and this fear was just increasing exponentially.
	I was never so scared in my life, and this figure came over to the bed, And it got, like I had this big thick quilt on top of me, and I was like pulling it up to my eyes, and I was just peering over the top of the covers.
	Right.
	And this figure actually laid down on top of me.
	And I was like, I was looking right in his face, and there was no eyes, no features on the face, just darkness.
	Darkness.
	And I was so scared.
	That's a shadow.
	My heart was just beating out of my chest.
	Yeah, that's a shadow person.
	Right, that's a shadow person, sir.
	Welcome.
	To the minions who are seeing these creatures, and that's what we're going to talk about tomorrow night.
	This subject will not go away.
	It's really strange to bump into a phenomena this large, this new, and I say new, and here comes a lady who's been researching it for 11 years, but in terms of the number, the scale of people that are beginning to see these beings, it is something entirely new.
	Isn't it?
	Don't you wonder if it's sort of leading up to something, and if so, what?
	Well, I'll get a lot of answers in the email to that.
	Of course it is, Art.
	It's leading up to the rapture, or it's leading up to an environmental catastrophe, or it's... you name it.
	Depending on somebody's belief system, they understand it's coming.
	It'll be interesting to see what it ultimately really is, huh?
	Wes for the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Oh, great.
	Hi.
	This is Art from Anaheim?
	Yes, Art.
	Well, uh, I just, I was just listening to your Shadow Person.
	Woo!
	I'm excited.
	Um, um, I, uh, I was in, living in Whittier, and, uh, I was with my, um, my girlfriend.
	We were laying in the, uh, we were laying in bed, and, uh, the lights were on.
	I was, uh, sorry, I'm getting a little excited here.
	Um, we were watching, um, TV, and, uh, Well, uh... What were you watching?
	We were just watching the show.
	I didn't know what it was really.
	We were just sitting there.
	And it was about maybe 10-30 at night.
	And all the lights in the house were off except the bedroom.
	And we had it fully lighted.
	It was fully lit.
	And she was reading a book.
	And we were laying next to each other.
	And this shadow person came in the room.
	And he took three steps.
	Any discernible features?
	You could surely see his physique.
	His body is muscle.
	He was bald.
	He had no eyes.
	He was a full body, about six foot.
	He was, you could, you could, um, you could surely see his physique.
	His body is muscle.
	Okay.
	Uh, he was bald.
	He had no, he had no eyes.
	He had, uh, as in, he was a full body, about six foot.
	He was really muscular.
	He walks in three steps.
	Yes.
	He tiptoes.
	He looks at the TV set and then he turns and he looks at us and she startled.
	I got startled, and he got startled, and he ran out down the hall.
	I got up and I went looking, everything was shut, all the doors were shut.
	Sure.
	But there was no suit on, it was like fully like if he was a body, it's hard to explain.
	All his body muscles, he was fully, his toes and hands, fully solid.
	No shadow given off, but he was all completely dark.
	Well, look, I absolutely believe you, sir.
	You're one of, obviously, many, many, many, many.
	What do you think, since I've got you here and your guess is every bit as good as mine, what do you think is happening?
	Well, I've been listening to your show for a long time.
	I've been trying to call you, and I was just getting excited from this other person, but I hear everybody has their dreams.
	I was fully awake.
	I was... I'm with you.
	Try my question.
	What do you think is happening?
	For him to disappear so fast, for him to come in, it's hard to explain.
	It's something that...
	I was frightened for the moment, but then frightened after.
	You're going back to it.
	No, sir.
	Again, what do you think is happening?
	I mean, the big picture here.
	Why do you think people like yourself are beginning to, all of a sudden, see these things?
	Why?
	Just for myself, I feel like I'm an open-minded person.
	I often look at the skies, look at everything, or open-minded.
	My beliefs are... I've read books and things on... Alright, listen, listen.
	We've got to hold it there.
	You obviously aren't going to be able to get around to it.
	I understand you're very excited.
	So, that's the question that we'll ask our expert tomorrow night.
	One thing's for sure.
	It's really happening.
	These creatures, these entities, they really are here now.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring coast to coast AM from May 30th 2001 I'm dancing baby on the shoulder
	Sun is setting like molasses in the sky What you've seen is what I had to move
	Everything, always wanting more In the name of love, I'm dancing baby
	Sun is setting like molasses in the sky What you've seen is what I had to move
	Everything, always wanting more Everything, always wanting more
	In the name of love, I'm dancing baby Sun is setting like molasses in the sky
	What you've seen is what I had to move Everything, always wanting more
	Everything, always wanting more Into this house we're born
	Into this world we're thrown Like a dog without a bone and actor out of loan
	Writers on the store There's a killer on the road His brain is squirming like a toad Take a long holiday Let your children play
	Premier Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 30th, 2001.
	Top of the evening, morning or afternoon, depending where you are in the world, I suppose, to you.
	And no matter where you are in the world, it doesn't matter.
	I've got a bulletin for you.
	Our weather is changing.
	Not, I predict our weather is going to change.
	Our weather is changing.
	And I could sit and cite evidence all night long.
	The latest of it simply being the 101 degree temperature in San Francisco today.
	Never happened.
	Not in all our record keeping before.
	Not in May.
	We've got shrubs.
	Growing in the tundra, according to CNN's headline news today, they did a pollution track that showed pollution going around the world in vans.
	And, you know, I don't think there's any question, as I said last hour, anymore about whether the weather is changing, but rather how we begin to adjust to it, because I don't think we're going to be able to stop it.
	Whether you imagine it to be cyclical or with the hand of man, with the aid of the hand of man, no matter how you imagine it, I think the predictions of weather change and the beginning of serious weather change are no longer an argument.
	I think it's here.
	It's changing.
	We are the frogs.
	We are getting warmer.
	The pot is getting warmer.
	There are going to be a lot of things that are going to result from this, and that's going to be stronger storms, more severe storms, and areas that were temperate becoming not quite so temperate anymore.
	It's going to change the farming.
	It's going to change the disease.
	Emerging diseases will begin to, as they are doing, emerge.
	And we're entering a sort of a different time.
	Another thing that we're looking at that's very serious for all of us is the power coming up in a moment i've got uh... richard perez richard perez is the editor-in-chief and publisher of home power magazine and there are two reasons that you should stay tuned reason number one is kind of worldly and esoteric uh... we're screwing up the planet there is no doubt about it we are and
	He can tell you how to do less of that and begin to do something individually because a collective thing is going to only happen, you know, beginning with the grassroots with all of us.
	The best reason for you to stay tuned is to save money.
	Really.
	Serious amount of money.
	Every month.
	If you begin doing things that will conserve power, if you begin to tap into some alternative power yourself, forget the damn government.
	They're not going to do anything of substance about it because they're worried about the economy and, you know, the next election.
	So forget them.
	It's got to happen at our level.
	Now, you say, well, I can't do very much.
	Yes, actually, you can.
	And we're going to tell you exactly what you can do tonight.
	So, stand by for that coming up immediately.
	Coast-to-CoastAM.com can be conveniently accessed on your iPhone and most Android platforms, which means that you are never without your Coast-to-Coast AM fix.
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	Coast to Coast AM.
	It's way out there.
	The Catholic Church a few years ago came out with a report that the belief in extraterrestrial life does not negate one's belief system in God.
	I found that fascinating, didn't you?
	This is something that is certainly a very plausible event, but nevertheless, what we're saying is, it is the setup for the Antichrist.
	And we had better wake up, because if we don't, we are going to find ourselves part of that alien agenda.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 30th, 2001.
	Alright, here we go.
	2001 alright here we go
	Richard Perez is the editor-in-chief and publisher of Home Power magazine
	read by many I I guess Home Power has been around.
	Richard, welcome to the show.
	Good evening, Art.
	Good evening.
	How long has Home Power Magazine been around?
	Since November of 1987.
	November of 87.
	Well, in November of 87, things were really different.
	Well, in November of 87, things were really different.
	Oh, they certainly were.
	And people were not as aware of the rising cost of electricity,
	the increasing scarcity of fuel, and all the political controversy about it.
	But most of all, their electric bills in November of 87, well, nothing like they are now.
	No.
	In 87, the only folks who were seriously interested in making their own electricity or energy efficiency We're folks that were living off-grid.
	People who had moved to a piece of property that was beyond the end of the power line.
	An unaffordable distance from the end of the power line.
	And these days that distance is about a quarter of a mile.
	In those days the distance was about four miles.
	The systems were more expensive, electricity was cheaper.
	But there were folks who moved out into the backcountry And the power company wanted too much money to run the lines in.
	Our particular place is six miles from the end of the power line.
	So you're off-grid?
	Oh yeah, I've been off-grid since 1970.
	And so, all since 70, so obviously by 87 you were getting pretty good at it, I guess, huh?
	Well, by that time I'd spent ten years as an installing dealer of these systems.
	I went through and electrified all the off-grid people in our neighborhood and beyond, anywhere
	I could drive in two or three hours.
	We decided that folks didn't know what could be done with this technology.
	They were still in the back country running what they called the light plant, which was a generator.
	It would run for a TV light bulb, 600 watt load on a 6 or 7,000 watt generator.
	Predictable results, incredibly high power bills, propane bills, gas bills, diesel bills, whatever you were fueling it with.
	So we went through with these more modern technologies and Reduce the cost of operating that generator to less than 10% of what they were spending.
	By doing what?
	In those days, photovoltaics were expensive.
	About the only folks that could afford them was NASA.
	And we went through and we added batteries and inverters to the system.
	So we'd run the generator for say three hours on Sunday or four hours and charge up the batteries and for the rest of the week Just cruise on the battery-stored energy, and the inverter would take this battery-stored energy and make it into conventional 120 volt AC.
	In other words, prior to that, when they would run the generator, they'd be getting 5 or 6 kilowatts.
	Right.
	However, they'd only be using about 600 watts of that to do a few things, and all the rest of it would be virtually going to waste.
	Going to waste, that's right.
	Unless you store it in batteries.
	That's right, and also the only time you had power was when the light plant or the generator was running.
	Right.
	And under the scenario of batteries and inverters, you have power whenever you need it.
	24 hours a day, just click the switch.
	You heard me give a little summary at the beginning of the hour about the weather.
	I no longer think there's an argument about Whether it's changing, people pretty much agree that it is changing.
	We just argue about why now.
	So it's getting hotter, it seems, and as it gets hotter, the demands on power are going to be greater.
	What's going to happen this year and then look past that to five years from now?
	I mean, California is having these rolling blackouts.
	It threatens to be a disastrously hot summer.
	What do you see happening?
	I see the lights going out routinely in widespread areas.
	Depending on who you listen to, somewhere between 40 and 200 hours of blackouts in California.
	And these are going to be affecting anywhere from a quarter of a million people to 4 million people, depending on which expert you happen to listen to.
	And the interesting thing about this is that it's really kind of a death spiral, if you will.
	The increased temperatures cause us to use more electricity.
	The number one producer of carbon dioxide, the major greenhouse gas, is coal-fired and natural gas-fired power plants.
	So the more electricity we consume, because the hotter it gets, the worse the problem becomes, so the more electricity we consume.
	So it's an ugly situation.
	The problem is that appealing to people on that basis probably doesn't work.
	It's the big picture and they go, sort of, I mean my lights are on, I'm okay.
	But now that the power bills are going through the roof, It's like you've got their attention.
	So when you were publishing in November of 87, I'm sure it was to the fringe, and now that you're publishing in 2001, I think you probably have everybody's attention.
	They've looked at the power bill lately and they've said, There's some people down in Southern California that have businesses that are going to go out of business.
	I told the story of a guy who had a $20,000 power bill last year.
	Then it went to $40,000, $60,000, $80,000.
	He thinks it's going to top $100,000 shortly, and he'll be out of business.
	Oh yes, it's going to affect the economy.
	There's no doubt.
	It already has.
	Even large companies like Intel was going to build a semiconductor manufacturing plant, you know, make chips in Silicon Valley.
	Right.
	And they moved that plant to Washington.
	The reason stated was electricity.
	And, you know, I'm not here to tell you that solar or home power is going to solve California's energy problems, but what I can tell you is that on an individual basis it will solve your home's energy problems.
	Well, people, that tends to get people's attention.
	It can solve your problem.
	So you can do anything from saving some money by making some changes, and we'll talk about that, all the way to kiss off the electric company.
	Oh, you can even do better than that.
	Under current laws, You can sell electricity.
	Back to the company?
	That's right, and you can have your solar winding up being used in your neighbor's house, and the house down the way, and so on.
	They don't like that.
	No, the utilities have fought this.
	It's called net metering, and they've fought it hammer and tong in 33 states of the nation, and we got the laws through anyway.
	But it's becoming pretty prevalent.
	And utilities don't like it at all.
	They've had a hundred-year monopoly.
	The scenario was, they make it, we rent it.
	And this is an essential shift.
	All of a sudden, you can make it on your roof.
	There have been advances in what we can do with the sun.
	I know Photovoltaics has made a couple of jumps recently.
	What's the current state of the art, as a matter of curiosity?
	Well, the current state of the art is we have a module that's, say, a meter by half a meter.
	Right.
	And it'll produce approximately 100 watts when the sun hits it full on.
	Meter by half meter?
	Yeah, say 3 feet by a foot and a half.
	Right.
	And it'll produce 100 watts of DC power, 12 volt power, just like in your car.
	And it'll do it as long as the sun is shining on it.
	And it'll do that for, well, they're warrantied for 25 years.
	Jet Propulsion Laboratory, who torture tests and accelerated life cycle tests these modules, says that they'll be making probably 75% of their energy 50 to 60 years from now, and quite possibly half of that energy 100 years from now.
	So, but they come with a 25-year warranty, and that's really the big news.
	Isn't that the photovoltaics have gotten substantially more powerful, or substantially cheaper?
	They're still pretty expensive items, but that they are lasting an incredibly long time.
	I mean, this is an energy source that your kids are going to fight over in your will.
	An energy source your kids will fight over in your will.
	So it'll be that important by then.
	Oh, I think so.
	I don't, frankly, see any other way of doing it that's sustainable.
	Let's talk about the average house.
	How much money would the average person have to spend to go off-grid?
	Average household, you know, average family, whatever the average family is these days, two point something or another kids.
	What would that family have to pay, probably, to go off grid entirely?
	Oh, consider going out and buying the best luxury Mercedes you could get.
	40, 50k.
	Will take you off grid?
	Oh, the average family.
	Well, that's what I had to spend.
	About 50.
	And the average person right now is not prepared to spend that kind of money.
	They don't have to.
	If we were to take that average home and do what we do with every solar electric system, we start with a load.
	We start on the consumption side.
	And we go through and we point out, just like you mentioned earlier, compact fluorescents.
	That's a good place to start.
	We go and we make war on those 160 watt light bulbs.
	I mean, they're really better heaters than they are light providers.
	Oh, you're absolutely right.
	I mean, about 95% of the energy you shove into that light bulb comes out as heat.
	That's right.
	And on a hot evening, oh, let's work the air conditioner a little harder.
	That's right.
	So, if we go through that home, and to answer the question you asked earlier, there's approximately 100 million households in America today.
	And if we were to put two compact fluorescent lights in place of 60 watt incandescents, we could save 100 megawatts.
	In other words, an extremely large power plant.
	We could just do away with it.
	We wouldn't need it.
	And that's just two compact fluorescents per household.
	That's astounding.
	We don't generally throw solar at the normal house.
	We go into the normal house and we say, let's look at all the things that you're doing that could be done more efficiently.
	And I like to stress that we're not talking about sitting in the dark here.
	Solar homes have all of the conveniences that any other home has.
	They are just doing what they're doing with electricity in the most efficient manner possible.
	And compact fluorescents are a good place to start.
	That's such a small thing, really.
	You would think that our government would somehow, if they had to, subsidize those!
	I mean, if you went from two to almost entirely replaced by these bulbs, my God!
	We'd save a lot of electricity.
	Half a dozen power plants nationwide almost immediately.
	Half a dozen power plants?
	Almost immediately, yes.
	And the consumer wouldn't know the difference.
	It's still 60 watts of light with 16 watts being used.
	But we're not doing that.
	What's the logic of that?
	Well, up until lately there's been no evidence to conserve or even to be efficient.
	I mean, you have to take a look at a very, very big picture here, and that's America's utility structure.
	These power plants are enormous devices, watched over by crews of technicians and lots of money and capital invested in here.
	And when they spin up, they're very similar to that home generator we were talking about earlier.
	When they spin up, they want to use it all.
	And so there has been no impetus to save because when we spun them up, we had enough.
	And the utilities are definitely into selling all they possibly can.
	Sure.
	And the government is financially supporting them, propping them up, particularly in the case of nukes.
	And so what we have here is sort of a mild, loose collusion to use all we possibly can generate.
	and interest in this has only been spark lately when we've been using more than we can possibly generate and compact fluorescents are available from a number of utilities now Pacific Gas and Electric is one Pacific Power Area of Oregon is another with your electric bill they'll send you a little A car to fill out, and they will sell you compact fluorescents at ridiculously cheap prices.
	Why?
	Because they don't want the lights to go out.
	And I would disagree with you that it's the big utility bills that are causing people to become interested in something else.
	You know, whether it's renewable energy, solar energy... Oh, really?
	Why do you think they're beginning to care about the planet?
	Oh, no.
	Oh, no.
	No more so than necessary.
	Why then?
	Blackouts.
	Oh, then we do agree.
	No, no, no, no.
	I think the blackouts have everybody interested.
	This is Premier Networks.
	That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
	There's magic in my eyes.
	I can see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles.
	Oh yeah.
	If you think that I don't know about the little tricks you play
	I can never see you and deliberately put you in my way.
	Well here's a look at you.
	You're gone.
	Do I have to make a move?
	When you find that you love the future behind me You gotta do the love you don't care about
	Then you gotta do where I Do I have to make a move?
	One day you run, one day you run, one day you run, one day you run
	You find out what you've done is wrong, you've done is wrong, you've done is wrong
	It happened to me and it can happen to you I'm sure Art Bell and you are so loved, so good to be true
	You run and run, you're the love of the world, it happens when we're together.
	Somewhere in time, with Art Bell, continues, courtesy of Premier Networks.
	Oh, no, I agree with Richard.
	If you actually experience a blackout, you get really interested really fast.
	But that's not the majority of the nation just yet.
	It's a lot in California.
	And so those of you in California know, when, without warning, it just goes out, your house is like a tomb.
	Now, In parts of California, the temperatures reach life-threatening heights.
	I mean, they really do.
	Life-threatening.
	You literally, in the California desert as well as the Nevada desert, you can't live.
	You just can't live.
	And with these sort of triple-digit temperatures beginning to spread like locusts, then the blackouts are going to spread like locusts, too.
	And as they occur, I'm telling you, if you want to know what it's like, I used to say this to everybody.
	Just go outside, if you know what you're doing, and throw the main breaker on your house.
	And turn off all the power and go back inside.
	It's like a tomb.
	If it's at night, it's exactly like a tomb.
	It's really frightening, and so that gets your attention very, very fast, and you begin thinking about energy independence like that.
	So, Richard's of course correct, but the second, and very good motivator also, is when you open up your electric bill and you go, oh my God, what's happened here?
	And all of a sudden it doesn't fit into the budget the way it used to.
	That's the second big eye-opener.
	We'll get right back to Richard Perez, who is editor-in-chief and publisher of Home Power Magazine.
	he's been doing it a lot longer than the new guy you're listening to art bells somewhere in time
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 30th, 2001.
	Oh, make no mistake about it.
	The Bush administration has said the blackouts will likely roll across the country all the way to New York, all the way to the northeast part of the country.
	You think that is going to happen, Richard?
	Almost certainly.
	That's a big wake-up.
	Man, when your power goes off, especially at night, a house is a tomb.
	It's nothing more than a tomb.
	Yeah, and what you said about the necessity of air conditioning and hot climates, I recently spoke to a 78-year-old lady outside of San Diego who was experiencing blackouts.
	What she wanted was very simple and she couldn't get it.
	She wanted a fan that ran on some flashlight batteries and wasn't able to find it.
	We were able to hook her up with a 12-volt RV fan and a little rechargeable battery and that was fine.
	We sort of semi-solved her problem.
	Electricity, a hundred years ago, It didn't exist.
	Now it's an essential element.
	We can't store our food.
	We can't cook our food.
	We can't communicate.
	We can't light our house.
	And in many, many cases, we can't do any work.
	So it's an essential item.
	When it goes off, it's so shocking.
	For a while, you sit around in your house.
	I'm in a very rural area, and we used to have power failures here that would last two or three hours.
	And you sit around in this empty tomb of a place.
	It's really disconcerting, and most modern Americans aren't used to their power just going out.
	They're just not used to it.
	And it really is a shocker when it happens.
	The secondary reason certainly is bills.
	I mean, you know, power bills are getting pretty outrageous in California now and rolling across the U.S.
	as well, heating bills, all the rest of it.
	So aside from these bulbs, which we all know about, which could do so much, what other little things could people do around their homes to cut down a little without pain?
	Well, there's the obvious, all right?
	And that's shut it off if you're not using it.
	Right.
	In other words, no lights burning in unoccupied rooms.
	No televisions and stereos blaring in unoccupied rooms.
	Shut it off if you're not using it.
	That's pretty obvious, and it's also very easy to do.
	You know, I'm guilty of that.
	Well, I leave lights on in rooms when I shouldn't.
	I go in, damn it, and I say to myself, damn it, I turn it off.
	I leave them on.
	I also have televisions going in rooms that are unoccupied.
	Amateur on solar electricity.
	I know, but that's still the ethic of it.
	I think everybody pretty much does it a little bit.
	Well, in off-grid homes, it's done a whole lot less.
	Absolutely.
	But that's the obvious.
	A less obvious thing is, if your refrigerator is more than five years old, consider replacing it.
	The federal government has tightened up considerably on standards for refrigerators and manufacturers are finally hearing the word that we want more efficient refrigeration.
	Really?
	So how much more efficient can you buy now?
	How much better is it?
	Well, you can get a, if you follow the Energy Star guidelines, you can get a 19 cubic foot refrigerator freezer.
	That'll consume about 1.3 to 1.4 kilowatt hours of electricity a day.
	And this is approximately a third of what units made five to six years ago were consumed.
	Wow!
	My refrigerator is definitely that old.
	No kidding!
	Yes.
	And we're not talking specialty models, you know.
	In the off-grid community, we've been using these specialty refrigerators for a long time, and they were very expensive.
	Approximately $3,000.
	Oh my God.
	But they were worth it because they saved a pile of PV modules and a pile of batteries, and they were cost-effective.
	How about now?
	Now, a standard Maytag 19 cubic footer, you know, $760.
	uses about the same energy as that Sunfrost does, and on top of it, you get automatic defrost, which the Sunfrosts don't do.
	Wow!
	So, uh... Now, third, that's a very serious difference.
	Extremely, because when you consider that that refrigerator is plugged into the grid 24 hours a day, or plugged into your solar electric system 24 hours a day... Oh, I'm with you all the way.
	How were they able to achieve that, do you know?
	Better insulation, more efficient motors, More efficient design?
	I mean, they've gone back to the design of the 1932 Kelvinator.
	Let's put the evaporator on the top of the refrigerator so that the waste heat, which is dissipated as hot air, rises away from the refrigerator rather than underneath or in the back.
	That makes sense.
	Better insulation.
	The insulation on modern refrigerators is foamed in place.
	After all the wiring and all the plumbing is put in, it is foamed in place so it's absolutely tight.
	And a side benefit of this that we've noticed is quiet also.
	It's really shut the refrigerator up, you can barely hear it running.
	So you said 1.3 to 1.4 kilowatt hours per day?
	Yes.
	Versus how many?
	Three times that amount.
	Three times that amount?
	That's a serious amount of electricity.
	That is.
	Per day?
	Yes.
	If everybody was to move to efficient refrigeration, It would be, oh, a dozen or two dozen power plants.
	I'd have to work out, crunch the numbers, but this is an even bigger change than using a compact fluorescent.
	A bit more expensive, but... And you know, here's something for everybody to bear in mind.
	The California blackouts that are forecast to spread are happening because of a difference of just a few megawatts here and there.
	I mean, they really get tipped over the edge, I believe, by just a relatively few megawatts, don't they?
	Yes, it could be as small as two megawatts, and they start blacking out different areas.
	And a typical large power plant of the kind you talked about puts out how much power?
	Oh, anywhere from 50 to 100 megawatts.
	Uh-huh.
	This helps give people an idea of the scale we're talking about here.
	So, all of this, to solve all of this, is literally within our grasp really right now, isn't it?
	Yes, it is.
	And a note on these electric bills, too.
	You know, people are watching them go up, and they're going up substantially, but what most folks are not aware of Is that what they're seeing on their electric bill is only about half the cost of that electricity.
	And the rest of it is concealed in their taxes.
	How so?
	Oh, in terms of subsidies.
	Oh, you mean to the power providers?
	Yes, to companies like PG&E, which is, oh, going to wind up costing Californians about $25 billion for this latest debacle over the last few months.
	Tax dollars?
	Yes.
	California's floating the largest bond issue, actually second largest bond issue in history, to prop up these failing utilities.
	So, you know, the sticker price that you're seeing is not all.
	There's a lot of this, approximately half, concealed in your taxes.
	And I'm not even going to get to the environmental damage and what that costs, all right?
	Sure.
	Well, that's obvious.
	All around us right now.
	A lot of the people listening to me right now, because we're being heard across the entire nation and well beyond, are saying, well, yeah, that's California, and I've heard they did something wrong with deregulation, and so there's not really going to be a power squeeze everywhere.
	It's just stupid politicians in California.
	Is that wrong?
	That is wrong, yes.
	The grid is stretched thin.
	uh... in a number of states uh... we can expect to have blackouts this summer in
	new england massachusetts new york that area
	we can also expect them up and down the west coast here or a good washington
	uh... man you know potentially arizona nevada and certainly california
	we've already seen them there
	uh... this is not a local localized problem but uh... you know the these sort of societal problems seem to
	manifest in california first
	and then sort of travel across the nation And this summer is going to be a long, hot summer, and there are going to be a lot of lights out.
	All across the country, not just California.
	Yeah, and you know, this is something new for Americans, but if you went to a developing nation such as, for example, Colombia, it's common down there.
	And to see the utility have rolling blackouts most of the time, and the lights are on, and then they're off, and folks have learned to live with it.
	But I'm not too sure that Americans are prepared to live with it, and I'm not too sure that we should live with it.
	You know, we have things to do, and electricity is pretty much essential for most of them, and we can carry on.
	You know, what folks can do immediately is energy efficiency, and I'm not saying conserve.
	I'm not saying turn it off or take that appliance and throw it away.
	I'm talking about just using it intelligently and making darn sure that it's the most effective type that you can get your hands on.
	It's worth spending the money to get an efficient appliance.
	Yeah, you definitely made your case with the refrigerator.
	Boy, did you make your case.
	Alright, anything else in that category where there have been advances and you could buy something that's so much more efficient?
	Washing machines.
	Oh?
	There's specialty washers now and you're starting to see them, we're starting to see them in the major brands like Maytag and Frigidaire and Whirlpool.
	But there have been companies like Staber in Ohio who have been manufacturing very efficient washers for years now.
	We have one that takes about 156 watt hours average per load of wash.
	Yes. What? 156 watt hours as compared to...
	As compared to 400 to 600 for other washers.
	How much more expensive are they?
	Oh, they're tolerably more expensive. Instead of spending $800 or $900 for a washer, you'll spend $1,800 for a washer.
	But get that big a difference.
	Yes. And they also use a whole lot less hot water.
	And there's another thing folks can do for their home to save some energy is turn that hot water down just a little
	bit.
	It doesn't need to be over about 115 degrees.
	The other thing is... Yeah, because you're mixing it with cold water when you get in the shower anyway.
	That's right, but this hot water tank is sitting there losing energy to its environment 24-7.
	And if you reduce the heat in there, the heat transfer to the environment is less.
	Also, slap a 1995 will-get-you-a-hot-water jacket.
	Slap one of those on there.
	I've always wondered, how much difference does that make?
	It makes an incredible difference.
	I don't have the exact numbers, but I know that we use them in our system, and we're solar hot water heated with a propane backup, and we use these jackets, and it significantly reduced the amount of propane we were using in the backup hot water heater.
	Interesting.
	But hot water heating is a big consumer in most homes.
	So turn it down and slap a jacket on it.
	And think about solar hot water.
	This is something that in most locations will pay for itself in a couple of three years.
	Tell me about solar hot water.
	That's something I don't know a lot about.
	Well, it's pretty simple.
	You put a collector up on the roof and it absorbs the sun's thermal energy and transfers it into the water.
	And this water is Heated and stored in a tank downstairs there in the service area or wherever your hot water, you know, is.
	Yes.
	There are a number of different systems.
	The most common is a batch heater.
	And this is for locations like Florida or Southern California where it doesn't freeze.
	And there we actually pump the water up to the roof into a tank that's in an insulated enclosure with glass in the front.
	And we warm up the whole tank.
	And the area where I live in Oregon, it's not possible because we get numerous hard freezes in the winter.
	So what we do is we have a flat plate collector.
	It's about four by ten feet on the roof.
	It's about four and a half, five inches thick.
	And we have a glycol and water.
	Excuse me, this collector, what is it?
	Oh, it's made out of aluminum and with tubing inside it and a glass face on the front.
	And it's painted black inside to absorb more thermal energy.
	I'm curious, how hot will that get, the water?
	We've had hot water at our place to 180 degrees.
	180 degrees?
	Sure, all we have to do... That's way too hot!
	Way too hot, and you have to mix lots of cold with it, and in a utility situation, it'd be a disaster.
	But this is a solar situation.
	The only way that you can waste solar energy is not to use it.
	I hear you.
	I don't have a system like that.
	If I wanted one, how much?
	Oh, probably.
	Like the one you just described?
	A batch heater.
	Yes.
	Oh, under $1,500.
	Really?
	Yes.
	And what do we spend on a hot water heater, typically, whether it's propane or electricity, during the year usually?
	Oh, $350 or $400?
	No kidding.
	No kidding.
	So you'd pay for that solar water heater real quickly, wouldn't you?
	Yeah, in a couple of three years.
	It's done.
	You would have spent the money on utility bills.
	Is there a lot of maintenance to it?
	No, there's no maintenance whatsoever.
	None?
	None.
	Well, I guess I better get to getting one of those, too.
	You know, almost everything you've named tonight, my washer, my dryer, they're 10 years old.
	My refrigerator is 10 years old.
	I don't heat water in the manner you described.
	And I guess I'm going to be a batch heater.
	And most solar distributors sell these things?
	Oh, yes.
	Oh, yes.
	It's a specialized thing.
	In the solar world, we have two distinct groups.
	The solar electric people and the solar thermal people.
	And the solar thermal people not only handle hot water, but they'll also heat your home.
	These same collectors can be used to hydronically heat floors or radiators.
	So that a home can back off on whatever the fossil fuel or electric heat source that it's using and use more sun.
	And then you can go one step further and have a passive solar home, which is generally super insulated with properly placed windows and whatnot.
	Our home on Agate Flat, we normally get wintertime temperatures many, many nights below zero, sometimes as low as minus 10 Fahrenheit.
	And we only have a wood stove for backup, and we only burn it during the winter every two or three days for about four to six hours.
	Wow.
	And the rest of the time it's sunshine and super insulation.
	So, you know, we have almost no heating bills.
	We can heat our entire place in the winter on, oh, less than two quarts of wood.
	My goodness.
	Well, I live here in the desert, where we have sun, almost relentless sun, almost every day of the week, not far from Death Valley, so I'm a good solar candidate.
	I'm already there, but I guess I'm also a good candidate for this batch heater.
	I suppose I could probably get, it'd be hard for me to handle the temperature, so I'd probably guess.
	I think I'm going to do that.
	That's an astoundingly good idea and would save money, save people money in the short, really the short run.
	Yes.
	It's the fastest payback of any solar technology that we have right now.
	When you contrast it to what you're going to spend anyway, it's a much faster payback than solar electricity.
	You know, people often ask me, what's the payback on solar electricity?
	And I like to say, well, if you look at a 1,000 watt array, a kilowatt array, the payback there is one metric ton.
	That's 2,200 pounds of carbon dioxide yearly.
	about money because the utility rates, even today, are ridiculously cheap and subsidized,
	whereas solar is not subsidized.
	And so we look at it differently.
	But the main reason we see people putting solar in on grid these days is not to save
	money, but to keep the lights on.
	That's the reason that folks are telling us that they're doing it on grid.
	They're saying, I'm doing it to have lights on.
	I'm doing it to keep lights on.
	That's right.
	Uninterruptible queen power.
	That's why they're doing it.
	All right.
	Hold it right there.
	We'll be right back after the top of the hour.
	Learning something this morning?
	I know I am, and I thought I had it down pretty well, but already I can see I've got a lot of work to do, and I'm going to do it.
	How about you?
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 30th 2001 7 seas, everybody's looking for something
	Some of them want to use you Some of them want to get used by you
	Some of them want to abuse you You take your time, you take my time to control
	Another night, another day goes by I never taught myself to wonder why
	You have to forget to play by the rules You take your time, you take my time to control
	I, I live among the creatures of the night I haven't got the will to try and fight
	Against the need for marvels, so I guess I'll just believe That tomorrow will never come
	I said tonight, I'm living in the forest of a dream I know the night is not as it would seem
	I must believe in something, so I'll make myself believe That this night will never go
	Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh Oh, the night is my world
	Dirty lights, painted girls In the day, nothing matters
	In the night, time matters I, I live among the creatures of the night
	Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from May 30th, 2001.
	Top of the morning, everybody.
	Richard Perez, who is editor-in-chief and publisher of Homepower Magazine, is here, and we're talking about Real Ways.
	That you can save energy and money.
	And if we didn't do a program like this with the environment around us today, we would be only part of the problem as far as I'm concerned, not part of the solution.
	If you want to be part of the solution and you want to save money, then you will keep listening.
	Coast to Coast AM sure sounds great in the middle of the night.
	But you know, you don't have to be nocturnal to enjoy this amazing show.
	The Coast Insider is your key to a normal life.
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	As a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Noory and special guests.
	The Coast Insiders Club is a must-have feature for all Coast to Coast AM listeners.
	Visit coasttocoastam.com to sign up today.
	You'll sleep like a baby knowing you'll never miss your favorite guests and topics ever again.
	Remember, a one-year subscription comes out to only 15 cents a day.
	Sign up today at coasttocoastam.com.
	Now, we take you back to the past on Arkbell Somewhere in Time.
	Once again, the guy who was doing it long before it became popular, or I might add profitable
	to do what you can do today with regard to Home Power.
	The editor, in fact, and chief and publisher of Home Power magazine is here, Richard Perez.
	Richard, welcome back.
	Thank you, Art.
	I want to give your magazine a really good plug.
	Home Power Magazine obviously covers in its pages, what, every month, right?
	Bi-monthly.
	Bi-monthly.
	It covers in its pages all of the things and so many more things that we're not talking about tonight.
	Is that correct?
	That's correct.
	Okay.
	How much is your magazine?
	It's $22.50 a year via subscription, or you can go to our website and download the whole thing for free.
	You're kidding?
	No.
	$22.50 per year?
	Or you can go to your website and download the whole thing for free?
	That's right.
	No printing, no postage, no paper on the internet.
	Wow.
	What made you decide to do that?
	Mission One for us.
	has been to let folks know what this technology can do and uh...
	so the only reason we charge for it uh...
	is turning on his and postage and paper and it's expensive but uh... on the
	internet we have to note none of those expenses and we still make money by
	giving it away because we carry all about a hundred and forty ads strictly from inside of
	the renewable energy community uh... uh... in every issue and that picks
	up the bills Which really, if you're getting this magazine, is something you would want.
	Anyway, you want the ads.
	You actually want the ads because you're shopping for ways to save, right?
	That's exactly right.
	That's what our readers tell us.
	So, actually, in the downloaded version, you wouldn't get the ads?
	It looks just like the print version.
	Every page, every ad, full color.
	All right, so you get the whole thing.
	Well, that's incredible, you know, that you would offer it for free on the Internet.
	You just jumped up in credibility about 110% in everybody's opinion, I'm sure.
	That's astounding.
	Well, good.
	But I hope you make money anyway.
	Oh, we are.
	We're doing quite well behind it.
	Folks are interested, and they have been for years.
	So things are growing.
	And the magazine is It's a user's technical journal.
	Most of our articles that we don't write in-house are written by our readers.
	It's how I did it.
	And the articles are not lightweight.
	They contain a load table, in other words, every appliance in the system and how much it consumes.
	They contain a cost table, every component in the system and how much it costs.
	And they contain a full-line schematic of every piece of hardware in the system and how it's wired up.
	Wow.
	All right, so that's a very valuable resource.
	If they want to order your magazine, for those who don't have the internet, can't download the whole thing, do you have a number?
	Sure, 800-707-6585, and that'll be operational 8 a.m.
	Pacific tomorrow.
	Okay, 1-800-707-6585, right?
	6585 and that'll be operational 8 a.m. Pacific tomorrow Okay, 1-800-707-6585, right? That's correct
	So most of your articles then come from readers people who are out there doing it themselves
	That's correct, and there are a lot of us out there.
	In terms of home power people, these are people who are making most or all of their electricity using renewables, not just solar, but also wind and micro-hydro.
	We have names and addresses for 51,000 of them inside USA.
	And I estimate that there are approximately a hundred and eighty thousand independent systems already in the states.
	Now I've heard that solar is not yet, what's the right word, financially feasible if you're looking for immediate returns, but that wind power actually comes in at about three cents a kilowatt or something crazy like that.
	Yes, the wind is less than half the cost of solar.
	Less than half?
	And that's in a small, independent system.
	The three-cent-a-kilowatt-hour figure that you're quoting is an industrial-strength system, like wind farms for utilities.
	But in a home-size system, It'll be between 7 and 15 cents a kilowatt hour, which makes it currently competitive with sticker price on electric power in many states and many areas.
	And the solar is expensive, but you know when you asked me in the previous hour, How much is it going to cost to do the average American home?
	And I told you about as much as buying a luxury Mercedes.
	That's because we're talking average home.
	Now, if we start in with an efficient refrigeration, the compact fluorescents, the solar hot water, if we eliminate things that we call phantom loads, these are appliances that you think are off, but really aren't off.
	If we eliminate those things, then the price on a solar system comes down to between $6,000 and $15,000 for an average home.
	Really?
	Yeah, the rule of thumb is every buck that you spend on an efficient appliance in a renewable energy system will save you three dollars on system components.
	So we start, we give the house an efficiency job.
	And then that $40,000 to $50,000 bill for a solar electric system will drop to $15,000, and we've seen them go in as low as $6,000.
	So I'm going to be doing it bass-ackwards here, but I'm going to do it nevertheless.
	I went out and got, you know, the off-grid part done, and now I need to go... Obviously, I ignored the whole house.
	Just one aspect of it I didn't even think of.
	Dumb.
	Well, when you do that, just think of all the electricity you're going to have left over.
	I mean, you're going to be able to put an air conditioner in.
	Well, there's another issue.
	Air conditioners are interesting.
	Here, where I live, they are essential to life.
	It gets so hot here.
	Now, we're prepared for that.
	We have the appropriate air conditioning, but The air conditioning here is measured in tons, and you better have, if you live where I live and want to be comfortable, about five tons of it.
	That's a lot of electric current.
	That's a lot of electric current.
	It can be done on solar.
	We can do anything on solar.
	We can smelt aluminum.
	We can melt a Buick.
	You can melt a Buick?
	It's just a matter of how much of it you want to put in.
	And that's pretty much limited by how much you need and how big is your pocketbook.
	But an efficient home, $6,000 to $15,000, less than $10,000 for a wind system.
	If you're fortunate enough to have a creek in your backyard with some falls and drop to it, you can get off for as little as $4,000 or $5,000 for a micro-hydro system.
	But most folks don't have that.
	Solar is the dominant It sure is.
	Let me see if I can get you in some trouble.
	I'm hesitant to do this, but I just can't resist.
	because the sun is freely and democratically delivered to us all
	daily so it sure is let me see if i can get you in some trouble
	uh...
	i'm hesitant to do this but i just i can't resist the bush administration
	just submitted its energy plan uh... how would you rate uh... the bush energy plan
	on a scale of one to ten Ten being fantastic, fabulous, best thing you ever heard.
	Zero being, well, obviously what zero would be.
	How would you rate it?
	About minus three.
	Minus three, huh?
	I just finished an editorial for Home Power where I termed it suicidal and terminally stupid.
	Is that what you said?
	Yes.
	I had a guy from Greenpeace, and I know you're not a Greenpeace type, are you, or are you?
	No, not particularly.
	He was on, and he said the same thing.
	And I got threats.
	I got threats from people.
	People are so politically reactive, they think because you have made a comment like you just made, That half of them will throw out half of what you said or all of what you said and get mad and stomp on the radio and write a threatening email or whatever because they're knee-jerk political reactives and they think that means that you hate George Bush.
	I don't know.
	They say it means a lot of things.
	I don't hate George Bush.
	I don't even know the man.
	I do know that his energy policy is exactly the same as that which his dad put forth over ten years ago.
	And look where we are now.
	Look where it's gotten us.
	Blackouts.
	I agree.
	I agree.
	As a matter of fact, I believe the Bush administration, correct me if I'm wrong, did cut the research money for alternative energy in half or something like that.
	Yes, the solar research money is down to half of what it was in the preceding administration.
	Why would they do that?
	Because the message, the concept they have of energy is that real Americans burn coal.
	They burn oil.
	They don't use wimpy sunlight for energy.
	Wimpy sunlight?
	Yes, wimpy.
	I mean, you can stand out there in the energy source and not get fried.
	You can walk around in it.
	You may get a sunburn.
	That's the worst that will happen.
	Do you really think they're regarded as wimpy?
	I believe so.
	I don't think that they can conceptualize the amount of energy that is delivered to this planet on a daily basis by the sun.
	I just don't think that they can equate this with, say, a 100 megawatt nuke.
	I just don't think they can balance that equation.
	And uh... which is astounding because we've got uh... over a hundred thousand of us nationwide and then you know we're not daddy warbucks or rocket scientist and we've been living on the stuff for years I uh... here's the way I thought about it I don't know if I would have used exactly the words well actually I did use stupid word I guess yes word um... when I was commenting on it on the energy policy however there there's one aspect of it that I sort of agree with And that is that in the short term, because the kind of changes you and I know have to be made aren't being made in the short term, if we don't get more coal and oil, if we don't go to ANWR, then really awful things are going to happen to us and to our economy.
	in the short term.
	So what I wanted to see was, I sort of thought, well they've got to go get it because we really need it in the short term, but at the same time they should be coupling that with almost a Manhattan-type project to change this country's energy habits and requirements very quickly or else the future is very dim indeed.
	Well, you know, and that's incredibly true.
	And that's the one thing that we can do.
	We can all help by doing going efficient.
	And I was recently talking to a solar electric dealer who returned from Germany and he stayed at a 60 bed hotel in Germany.
	And they were very proud of this hotel because it was using all the modern energy efficient technologies.
	and this 60 room hotel was using less energy than the average all-american all-electric home, one home.
	That's what I said earlier in the program.
	I guess I said that if the government isn't going to do it, and it doesn't sound to me like they are, then we have to do it.
	And if we don't do it, it simply isn't going to get done, and the net result is going to be pretty awful.
	It's going to be really awful for the economy and for the people.
	So that's how important all of this is.
	But I don't know how we drill it in, because people tend to sort of I don't know.
	They trust the fact the lights are on now, and they trust somehow the government will take care of it.
	Well, we can get back to the electric bill.
	You know, I don't see folks getting a raise to pay their electric bills.
	So, there's got to be an end to it somewhere.
	And when you can't pay the electric bill, well, the lights will definitely go out.
	And even if you can pay the electric bill, And I've been talking to folks in California who are, by and large, pretty hip to conserving energy and compact fluorescents, efficient refrigeration, all that stuff.
	And they're hopping mad because they're getting blacked out with their neighbors who are energy pigs.
	You see, so it's very, this blackout thing is very non-discriminating.
	It doesn't, you know, the utility doesn't care if you're running an efficient scene or not.
	You're getting blacked out anyway.
	Well, wasn't there some sort of legislation that would lay even a heavier bill, percentage-wise, per kilowatt hour or whatever, on what they deem to be an energy pig?
	Yes, there is.
	The only problem I had with it in California, there is.
	There's going to be a tiered electric rate.
	The more you use, the more expensive it gets.
	The only problem I had with it was it went neighborhood by neighborhood.
	So if you're living in the barrio, you have one standard.
	If you're living in Beverly Hills and the houses around you are, by and large, all energy pigs, then the tiering is key to the neighborhood, if you will.
	Which I thought was entirely undemocratic.
	That's really weird.
	Yes it is.
	That's really weird.
	So in the high rent districts, they'll average it all out and you won't necessarily be a pig because everybody's being a pig.
	That's right.
	But in the barrio, oh that's grossly unfair.
	I thought so too.
	But, you know, its efficiency should be practiced wherever we can practice it.
	It's really the only weapon that we have against immediate blackouts.
	That, and there is one other weapon.
	It's something that we developed at Home Power, and it's called the Midnight Special.
	And it costs about $6,000.00.
	How did you select that name for it?
	Well, the Midnight Special shined its light on me.
	And it's basically what we were doing with light plants.
	Back in the late 70s and early 80s.
	What's that?
	Well, we just add batteries and inverters to the system.
	In other words, in your garage or utility room, a bank of sealed batteries and an inverter, a bit of switchgear and a subpanel, and when the lights go out, the inverter powers your house.
	I mean, it'll power all of it.
	The freezer, the whatever.
	Oh, I know.
	Keep your house up for a period of 24 hours.
	Most utility outages are on the order of several hours, not 24.
	Then when the utility comes back, you recharge the batteries.
	So that's going to be affordable for most people, isn't it?
	For a lot of people, anyway.
	For a lot of people, a $5,000 to $6,000 bill is doable.
	And the thing that I like about this system is that when you've got it done, you're halfway there to being energy independent.
	All you have to add is some solar on the roof, and then, all of a sudden, you don't need the utility anymore.
	Or an even better scenario for the grid is while you're at work during the day and that solar system is pumping out energy, if your batteries are full, your excess energy goes onto the grid.
	And you sell it to the utility.
	And California is one of the states with a net metering law that mandates that the utility has to buy it back from you.
	Yeah, I read this nice story about a lady in California.
	I'm sure you read it.
	It appeared in a lot of papers, and her meter was running backwards, and she was so joyful.
	Oh, it's a revelation to have it happen.
	And in California right now, they're offering some really good buy-downs on equipment.
	The state of California will pick up approximately half of the cost.
	I've heard that.
	And also, the California Energy Commission and the PUCs there have ruled that if you have net metering, you can also have time-of-use metering.
	Which means that you're paying very high prices on peak during the day, mostly in the afternoon, and very low prices in the middle of the night.
	So you could really adjust it, couldn't you?
	Ah, you can actually break even on a solar electric system.
	Oh, really?
	In California, with a combination of the buy-down, which picks up about half the cost.
	Alright, Richard, hold it there.
	We've got a break, and we'll come right back.
	And when we do, we'll take some calls from all of you out there.
	Richard Perez, editor-in-chief and publisher of Home Power Magazine, is our guest.
	If you have questions, they're up next.
	The trip back in time continues, with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	More somewhere in time coming up.
	Come walk with me, gonna down the dead way.
	Jenny was sweet, she always smiled for the people she'd meet.
	On troubled strides, she had another way of looking at life.
	She smiled for the people she'd meet.
	I used to be a rolling stone, you know.
	Never called it right.
	I leave.
	You'll find an answer on the road.
	I used to be a hard-kicking, bold, dumb one But the times have changed
	Yes, I say the more I work, the better done Cause I'm nearly free, but still there's still a need of
	freedom From the day that I was born I've made my mind
	The feeling that you're feeling took me knee-high to a man Give me peace of mind while you're standing there with me
	Open up, tell me you're free, shine on me I'm lovin', shine a light through the eyes of the one that's
	behind Premier Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 30th, 2001.
	I can tell you this, it is a big feeling of freedom to be free from the power company altogether.
	It's an incredible feeling actually.
	It's kind of like when you, oh I don't know, when you pay off the mortgage on your house, you know.
	Burn the Loan.
	Kind of like that, actually.
	And there are stages in between.
	That's what we're talking about this morning.
	with our guest, editor-in-chief, publisher of Home Power magazine, Richard Perez.
	Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues courtesy of Premier Networks.
	www.premier.com.au Richard Perez is here from Home Power Magazine.
	He's been doing this since, uh, 87.
	November of 87.
	He's got a magazine that comes out bi-monthly, and you can order it.
	I'll give you the 800 number, or you can get it free on the web.
	The whole thing is published free on the web.
	If you don't have the web, then obviously getting the magazine... In fact, even if you do have the web, you might want to support him.
	But it's free.
	Sounds like a really good investment either way.
	Richard, welcome back.
	Thank you, Art.
	Let's take a few calls and see what happens.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Richard Perez.
	Hello.
	Good morning, Art.
	Good morning, Richard.
	This is Christopher over at Honolulu, Hawaii, calling from listing off the KHVH, the big A30 AM.
	Yes, sir.
	Boy, I'll tell you, Art, I'm sure glad you're Postulizing the alternative powers.
	And Richard, I'm glad that you also are doing this.
	I've been kind of an alternative person for quite some time.
	I've been a denizen of the deep living on boats of one kind or another for the past 20 plus years.
	I'm currently living in Hawaii and I have a 47 foot sailboat which is solar powered.
	You look in around the harbor and I see that probably More than half the boats have either wind generation or solar power or a combination of both.
	Now, this is a tropical climate, so you have to think in terms of air conditioning and whatnot.
	I have gone through a lot of effort to take apart panels on my boat and insulate everywhere I could, and trying to make sure that the heat was kept out from inside the boat.
	I've gotten to the point where I'm not even using air conditioning at all in the boat.
	And that's just from making a major effort to insulate very thoroughly.
	Now, I think that my impression is that a lot of people live in houses that are way too big.
	We seem to have a status symbol.
	The bigger the house, the more powerful the person.
	Or, you know, the more prominent the person.
	And I think people need to scale down the size of their houses and think in terms of if they're going to build a new house, make it more user-friendly as far as the amount of square footage they're actually going to use.
	No extra rooms, no unnecessary space that you have to heat up or cool off.
	What do you think about that?
	Well, you know, I'd say you're right.
	There's no point in having space that's not necessary and unused.
	But I think maybe key to that is exactly what you've been doing to your boat.
	And I salute you.
	That's off-grid living for sure.
	Is insulation.
	You know, if you go The code says R19 in most locations.
	If you go the code better and go like R30, R60 in the ceilings, then the heating and cooling bills drop radically.
	If you spend the extra money for the dual pane windows that are argon filled with a heat mirror coating, then you'll save even more money.
	So I'm not too much sure that it's the size of the homes that's so much the culprit as the fact that they are poorly built.
	They are built with a low price tag in mind and spending an additional 4-5% on the home.
	So from their point of view as home builders, the extra insulation only makes the home, from their point of view, less attractive To the people, because it costs more.
	If they spend a lot of money on insulation, the home costs more, and they're not competitive.
	Well, it costs slightly more, and the builders are putting the money into, oh, let's put some fancy cabinets in the kitchen.
	And for the money that you put into those fancy cabinets, you could better insulate the building.
	So in other words, if you're going to build a house, You're probably going to have to have an argument beforehand about the whole thing.
	And you're going to have to dictate to them exactly how you want it insulated.
	If you're smart, right?
	I would think so.
	We designed and built our own home.
	Our 30 in the walls, our 60 in the ceilings.
	Cool in the summer, warm in the winter.
	We built an experimental straw bale greenhouse bath house.
	Just to try out the technology.
	And it's a small building.
	It's only about 20 by 26 feet.
	Right.
	And it's R60.
	And it has no heat source other than the sun.
	And it has never frozen in there, even on the coldest Oregon nights.
	And the thing was like $16 a square foot to put up.
	So, I mean, which is approximately a fifth or a sixth what the average home costs.
	So it's the same scene as the compact fluorescents in the efficient refrigeration.
	It's just paying attention to the energy details.
	And in a home, insulation and windows are key.
	Well, that's when you buy it.
	I mean, these are upgrades you can make, but it's very expensive.
	When you buy it, it's not so expensive to do.
	So have an argument with them early on about that, and tell them exactly what you want.
	Learn what you want, and then tell them what you want.
	That's what you've got to do.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard Perez.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	East of the Rockies, going on.
	Yes, I'm Jerry, calling Jacksonville, Florida.
	Yes.
	Put in a solar hot water heater in New York City, when New York State and the federal government had a back-to-back subsidy deal.
	I think it was 79, it might have been 89, 1989.
	The cost of the equipment was $3,200 at the time, a three-bedroom home.
	The cost of the equipment was $3,200 at the time, a three-bedroom home.
	I got 55% off.
	It cost me a little under $1,600.
	I saved about 500 gallons of oil each year.
	Thank you.
	At that time, it was about $500 in my pocket each year.
	Three years or so, and I was paid back.
	So I take it you sold the place and not with it?
	I sold the place and went with it, exactly.
	I was there for at least four or five years of operation.
	Operation was fine.
	Even the... Oh, it was exactly... It was at least a little over five years because The five-year guarantee on the water heater that was installed was short by about one month under the guarantee, and it began leaking.
	He replaced it free.
	The new five-year guarantee.
	I see.
	You really made out, didn't you?
	I really made out.
	Alright, well, there's an example of what you were talking about, Richard.
	What I don't get is How come we're not doing it in really large numbers?
	I mean, other than this program and maybe a few others like it, people don't know about these things.
	And in view of the dire straits we're in, why don't they know about these things?
	Well, we're locked into this grid mentality that energy is something that is delivered to the house on pipes and wires.
	And that's the way we've always done it.
	You know it would cost another few thousand dollars on the house to put in the solar hot water and We're just not going to do that.
	We're going to put in the fancy kitchen cabinets instead and let the user worry about the utility bill and the folks buying these homes By and large are unaware of these technologies, what can be done, how much it costs, how effective they are.
	That's our job at Home Power, making folks aware of what can be done.
	Let me ask you about a pretty controversial one.
	I'm not sure whether what I've heard about this is really true or not, but here it is.
	Again, I live in the desert where it gets just irrepressibly hot and you must have air conditioning.
	However, I have heard That down in the ground, not very far, maybe only three feet into the ground, year-round, no matter what, it maintains a constant temperature of, I've heard, something like 57 degrees.
	Or maybe it's more than that.
	I don't know.
	Something like that.
	How far down in the ground do you have to go before you reach a stable year-round temperature?
	It's about 54 degrees and you have to go down six feet.
	Six feet?
	54 degrees.
	Now think about that, folks.
	54 degrees.
	You wouldn't have to heat very much, would you?
	No.
	And you certainly wouldn't have to... 54 degrees.
	You wouldn't have to cool at all.
	Is that right?
	Well, that's partially right.
	The trick is getting the heat from the home into the ground and dissipating it.
	And there's a device called a ground-coupled heat pump, which is a You know, most of the heat pumps you see around are air coupled.
	They sit out in the backyard and they either dissipate heat into the air or, you know, take heat out of the air.
	Right.
	The ground is a much better place to do this.
	These are gaining in popularity.
	They're, to my way of thinking, the most efficient way of using electricity.
	Well, what is it you're putting in the ground?
	Heat from your home.
	And what are you taking from the ground?
	nothing, you're putting heat in the home and using, you're taking hot air from your home,
	if you will, and you're removing the heat from this, putting it in the ground, and bringing
	it back as cooler air.
	So you're...
	Ah, okay.
	Okay, so now we're talking about a virtual air conditioner.
	Yes.
	And it doesn't require a compressor?
	Oh yes, it does require a compressor.
	And there's fluids and heat exchangers involved.
	How much current versus, you know, like a five ton air conditioner that we need out here in the desert, four or five tons at least?
	Approximately half.
	About half?
	Yes.
	Oh, that's a lot.
	That's a lot.
	Alright, how much investment to do this?
	Oh, this is tolerably expensive.
	It is a bit more expensive than installing central air.
	You know, I don't have the exact figures.
	You have to get into the ground.
	You can do this in one of two ways.
	You can either go out to the yard and dig some six foot Deep trenches.
	Put a snail of trenches out in the yard.
	Yes.
	And lay the heat exchanger in there.
	Or you can drill vertically down about 40 or 50 feet.
	Like you would drill a well.
	Yes.
	And install this heat exchanger vertically.
	And this is the more common way of doing it now.
	The more high-tech way of doing it.
	Also less expensive and less disruptive.
	Okay.
	So it's like a well.
	Yes.
	It's like a heat well.
	A heat well.
	And you can also use this for heat in the winter.
	The heat pump is bi-directional, so it'll cool you in the summer and heat you in the winter.
	Well, that's what I was asking.
	So you are taking from the ground, then?
	Yes, you are taking heat from the ground in the winter, and you're stashing heat in the ground during the summer.
	Using it as a cold sink, if you will.
	That's pretty good.
	Yeah, it's probably the best way to use electricity for climate conditioning in a home.
	All right, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard Perez.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes, hello.
	Yes, this is Al from San Fernando Valley, California.
	Yes, Al.
	And I never thought I'd be saying this, but I'm very happy to be within the city of Los Angeles, because as your guests may know, we are not subject at this time to any blackouts or major increases.
	So my question is, and I live in a townhouse, I can't very well, you know, put up a solar panel or anything, so other than Minor cost savings.
	What would be the main benefit for someone like me of trying to get off the grid?
	Well, in a townhouse, it's going to be very difficult for you to get off the grid.
	You know, I don't know if you have access to your roof.
	I do, but it's common areas considered.
	Okay.
	You know, I'm amazed that a lot of homeowners associations and subdivisions and townhouses and whatnot have all these prohibitions against putting things like solar on your roof.
	My mother-in-law moved into a subdivision recently and they wouldn't even let her put up a clothesline.
	I think the answer to you, caller, is you can't get off-grid, really.
	Not realistically, where you are.
	All you can do is the smaller savings.
	But they're not so small, actually.
	They're pretty big.
	No, paying attention to your appliances and how you use electricity can easily cut your power bill by 25 to 50 percent.
	Well, that's not too bad.
	My other concern is I'm very scared of our governor saying that, you know, the city of Los Angeles, with its three million people, are going away scot-free right now.
	And I'm afraid that he just may say, you know what, the state's just going to take over your utility and give it to the rest of the grid.
	So I hope that doesn't happen, but that's a fear of mine, too.
	Well, in which case, you're a candidate for the midnight special.
	So put in a battery and inverter system, and when the grid goes down, you'll still have electricity.
	That's great.
	Thank you.
	All right, thank you.
	Now, you just said 25, the appliance changes that we talked about tonight, and I suppose more, could save him 25 to 50 percent of his present electric bill.
	Is that correct?
	That's correct.
	That's very non-trivial.
	Oh, that's entirely non-trivial.
	It would be an end to the power crisis, an end to blackouts.
	I don't know how many millions of tons of carbon dioxide it would save.
	The average American home is extremely wasteful in electricity.
	It's just nobody gave any thought to efficiency when they created these appliances.
	Okay, take his situation.
	Probably the worst.
	In a townhouse in a very controlled area.
	But he changes all his appliances, does everything within his townhouse he can.
	And a quarter to a half of his His total bill is going to be gone.
	I just want to really confirm that, right?
	That's correct.
	That's very serious.
	So that means that everybody from the townhouse to the individual home to the business, and I suppose, you know, somebody points out as writing to me that, you know, you look at a downtown area at night, you know, when the businesses are closed, And they're lit up like Christmas trees.
	And people are, some people are beginning to ask, you know, in the areas where you're having blackouts, the people are asking tough questions like, why in the hell is that going on?
	Then we homeowners have to pay for it when our power goes out.
	Well, you see, this is occurring in the middle of the night or after dark.
	Yes.
	And after dark, the utilities are fat.
	You see, the utilities are rolling thunder.
	These plants produce X amount of electricity when they're going.
	And as long as we stay under that amount, no problem.
	In the middle of the night, everyone's air conditioning load is backed off.
	A lot of businesses, even though they're lit up, are using considerably less power.
	And at that time, the utility would like to sell all that it possibly can.
	You see, the utility doesn't have a battery.
	They don't store energy.
	They make it.
	Instantaneously.
	So the problem is on peak, not off peak.
	So they love nighttime people.
	Oh, look at all these sodium vapor lights they'll put up in your backyard for almost nothing.
	Here in the country, they're ubiquitous.
	That's true.
	Actually, I hate those things.
	Oh, why?
	And if ever there was a likely candidate for target practice, in my mind, it's those damn sodium vapor lights.
	They're ugly, they create light pollution, they shut out the stars.
	I mean, they're totally nonsensical.
	The utilities love them because, hey, they've got these generators running all night anyway, and they would like you to use it up.
	Well, you know, I never thought about that, but the utility companies actually don't have a collective way at the source to store that extra energy, right?
	Well, a few of them do.
	Like, for example, Pacific Gas & Electric in California pumps water up an incredibly high mountainside and stores it in a huge pond.
	And then during the day, they'll run this water back down through a hydroelectric turbine and make electricity.
	Good idea.
	Wonderful idea, but it's not applicable where you don't have a large mountain right there.
	I mean, that's as close as a utility comes to storing energy.
	And they're rolling thunder.
	They generate it instantaneously, and this is part of the problem.
	So, if I've got it right, especially where the rates are lesser at these times, is that correct in a lot of areas?
	Well, if you have time-of-use metering for the consumer, yes, the rates are less.
	So then you could take that electricity at an off-peak time, store it in batteries, as we discussed earlier, and chop your electric bill with an inverter and so forth?
	Yes, you could.
	All right.
	Well, listen, boy, what a pleasure it has been to have you on the air tonight.
	And I just, you know, I know that you're going to get a zillion subscriptions to your magazine as a result of it.
	And we're going to have you back again.
	All right?
	All right.
	All right.
	I'd be pleased to come back.
	Richard Perez, thank you.
	You're welcome.
	And good night, my friend.
	All right.
	Well, you know, there it is, folks.
	I mean, it's been laid out for you.
	How you can cut your bill, even in a townhouse, by a quarter to a half, the bill you get every month.
	Or if you're a home, how you can get completely independent of the power company.
	And as I said earlier, I know the feeling.
	It's a feeling.
	It's just like when you rip up your mortgage, when you put a match to your mortgage and it's the end, you've made the last payment, to the bank anyway.
	It's freedom.
	From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM.
	This is Premier Networks.
	That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	on this Somewhere in Time.
	Your Dina Dao.
	I'm learning about where to find..
	a heart.
	A heart.
	I'm learning about where to find..
	I can feel it coming in the air tonight Oh Lord And I've been waiting for this moment for all my life Oh Lord Can you feel it coming in the air tonight Oh Lord Oh Lord
	Well if you told me you were drowning I would not lend a hand
	Somewhere in time with R.
	We're going to open the lines.
	Unscreened.
	Anything goes.
	networks. It's an open game coming up. We're going to open the lines. Unscreened, anything
	goes, talk radio. That's coming up next.
	There are a couple of things I want to mention.
	One is, George Bush, as President, I had a lot of reservations about.
	He has pleasantly surprised me, so far.
	George Bush has actually pleasantly surprised me.
	He's giving a lot of money back to the American people.
	That's a nice surprise.
	Not seeing any stupid gun legislation for a while is going to be a nice surprise.
	And so in a lot of ways, actually I think so far, pretty good for President Bush, except in one area.
	And that's energy.
	In that area, he is making a tragic mistake.
	And so collectively, we are making, in my opinion, a tragic mistake.
	I just wanted to straighten that out for those of you who are politically extremely reactive.
	That really is my current state of thinking.
	Not a bad president in a lot of respects, but boy, I'll tell you, not in the energy arena.
	And so we better get going, and that's why I had Richard Perez on tonight, and that's why you need to really think seriously about what he just said.
	Not just for our collective sakes, but for your own pocketbook, too.
	Now, there are a couple of stories that I am following as hard as I can.
	I got a fax from a man who lives in Orlando, Florida.
	And he says, Art, with regard to the underwater city off western Cuba, I have a Cuban friend here in Orlando.
	And this Cuban friend told him that he heard on news from Cuba, actually Monday, on Spanish radio, an actual Cuban station, that Fidel Castro, you're going to find this interesting, the Cuban president is asking international help with money and technical help for deep sea explorations off western Cuba.
	But the news provided no details, nothing concerning the underwater city that we have the Reuters story about.
	And still, Ms.
	Zolitsky is out at sea and we can't talk to her about what she says she found.
	She is a very high-profile person in doing what she's done.
	She unearthed, for example, the USS Maine.
	She's made quite a name for herself, but she's off at sea right now, so we can't talk to her about the story that implies Atlantis may lie off the western shores of Cuba, an unspecified distance.
	But isn't this interesting?
	That Fidel Castro has requested help, both money and technical help, for some sort of project off the western edge of Cuba.
	I thought I would pass that on to you.
	We're trying as hard as we can to follow this for you because it's obviously a very, very hot story.
	It's just that right now all leads to this story are cold.
	In other words, they're solid.
	We confirmed with National Geographic that yes, they're considering a project, had the interview on the air, but after that the leads go cold.
	So, with regard to what's off the western side of Cuba, folks, Everybody's shutting their mouth right now.
	But I'm telling you there is a gigantic story waiting off the coast of Cuba.
	A really big story.
	A city 2200 feet below sea level.
	That's almost a half mile.
	That would make it millions of years old.
	Buildings, architecture, tunnels, roads, They claim they found it all.
	But nobody's talking.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Good evening.
	Good evening.
	This is Kelly in Whidbey Island, Washington.
	Hi, Kelly.
	I had kind of a Part A and Part B to a question.
	The first one is, can you go directly from panels through an inverter to run a pump, an AC pump?
	And second of all, I've been wanting to ask this of you, Art, ever since you switched over.
	For an average guy, not somebody who's technically aware like you, but for an average Joe, how big of a hassle are batteries?
	Okay, the new batteries, to answer your question, are no hassle at all.
	What I have here are 20 year sealed gel cell batteries.
	It is not the cheapest way to go by a long shot.
	I mean, you can get lead acid batteries and deal with the fume problem and get it, you know, make sure you've got a clean operation and it's really cheap.
	But I went for these really incredibly expensive sealed gel cell batteries.
	No odor, no problem, no sweat for 20 years.
	Cool.
	Okay?
	Cool.
	Alright, so, and then in answer to your question, you mean to directly go from solar power through an inverter?
	Yes, of course you can do it.
	Okay, so, with a pump, we got a pump, you know, I live out in a rural area, we're in a well.
	Right.
	And what I've been worried about, and what my friends tell me, who are off the grid, that I need to have a bank of batteries to run the pump, and they said that I couldn't go directly Let's say from the panels through the inverter.
	Yes you can, you can, but then you wouldn't have water at night.
	Right.
	So for that you would begin to need batteries of some description.
	Right, but I can handle that.
	This is more like for an emergency thing or something I originally thought of.
	Okay, okay, but the answer to the question is a solid yes.
	Of course you can take the output of a solar panel or an array and you can directly go through an inverter and produce power on the other end, sure.
	It's not a very efficient way to do it.
	The efficient way to do it is to store the excess energy you use, as was carefully explained to you over the last couple of hours, wherever it comes from.
	First time caller online, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	Yes, it's off.
	Okay.
	Hi, this is Robert from Huntington Beach.
	Yes, Robert.
	Beautiful Southern California.
	Mm-hmm.
	And I'm currently standing outside of the retool project at the power plant across the street from me.
	They're retooling?
	They're retooling.
	There's four generators offline right now.
	Mm-hmm.
	One and two is having scrubbers put on for the emissions.
	All right.
	And three and four, they're spending a hundred and something million So there's 400 and something guys working two shifts.
	Right now they're welding up there.
	And if you remember last year, the economy in Huntington Beach was drastically changed when the beach was closed about eight months out of last year.
	Yes.
	And it was because, well they just found this out just recently, that it was because there's a filler plant a mile from here.
	And of course the intake and exhaust are going out in the same area that the plant is.
	So when all that mix is out there in the water, it's sending it right back to the beach, closing the beach, the economy is ruined.
	Bad scenario.
	So they're spending all these millions to get it fixed and the problem is still going to exist.
	So it's a mess out here.
	And I am in the process of actually, I'm an electrician.
	Well, look, here's the bottom line.
	It's harmful to the... We didn't even really get into this, but to burn coal and oil to generate power is ultimately harmful to the ecology.
	It's harmful to our environment.
	And, you know, that's like a whole separate argument, but in order to get you interested in beginning to change something, I don't even think we need to talk about the environment.
	It's something that's so serious it's not even funny, but it's not going to get people's attention.
	It's not going to get them to change.
	I just know it.
	I know how people are.
	Saving half on your power bill?
	That will get you to change.
	For that, you will change.
	And I understand that.
	I'm not in any way criticizing you, because I understand how people are.
	So rather than approach it from an ecological point of view, although this caller is certainly absolutely correct, I don't think that's the way to sell people on beginning to really save and getting off the grid and all the rest of it.
	I just don't think it's the way.
	But he's absolutely correct.
	I mean, we're fouling our nest, folks.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hey, all right, I made it through.
	Yes, sir.
	All right, I'm on a Panasonic 957, so I just got off the speakerphone there.
	All right.
	Just, I wanted to mention swamp coolers, and also something about Ballard Power that, or, you know, like alternative energy.
	But have you heard about swamp coolers or evaporative coolers?
	Oh, since I was a teen, sure.
	Well, I just spent about $3,000 to get a really nice one put on my house in Reno.
	Well, let me ask you a couple of questions then.
	Yeah, go ahead.
	The problem that I always had with them was twofold.
	One, that the house, that certainly it cools the house.
	Yeah.
	But that the house begins to get musty.
	Well, you have to keep a window open.
	Actually, for it to even work properly, you have to have a window somewhat open.
	Well, not immediately.
	You can run it for a couple hours, but if you run it for too long, you will get a condensation inside the house.
	But whatever window you open will direct the flow of air, so it actually pressurizes your house.
	It reduces the dust.
	I'm up here in Reno.
	It really keeps the dust down.
	Right.
	You're absolutely correct.
	The other complaint I had is that as a result of the increased humidity, all the paper and books in the house begin to go limp.
	Well, are you using one of those swamp coolers that you get for $400?
	I'm not using one at all right now.
	I mean, in the past, are you using one of the cheap ones?
	Probably.
	Yeah, they have some really nice systems.
	I'll send you an email about it with some details.
	Please do.
	Yeah, because the other advantage here in Reno, and I'm sure where you're at, the humidity is like 20% most of the time.
	Humidity during the summer here, when it's really outrageously hot, is down actually in the single digits a lot.
	Yeah, well, wait until you get some more golf courses out there.
	That'll fix that up.
	They're working real hard on that right now.
	Yeah.
	One other quick comment on a slightly different subject with the power stuff.
	I hear a lot of complaints about Bush cutting the research funding, but what I don't hear on the other side of it, and I'd really like to hear the facts, I notice in the stock market that certain companies that are related to fuel cells and solar power and wind power, their stock price has doubled in April.
	Yeah, you know, to me, if you want to see more research money go into it, maybe we should go buy some stock in those companies.
	I wonder if this isn't a project that... Well, actually, if what you say is true, then maybe people should be buying like crazy right now, because they'll make a lot of money.
	Well, yeah, some of that's already passed, but, you know, if things keep going the way they are, I certainly don't have a crystal ball on stock prices.
	It just seems to me that any technology, or many technologies that are developed in universities or the military, eventually get passed off into commercial hands.
	And at that point, you know, you could look at a lot of examples of that.
	And at that point, you know, there's really not a need for us to use our tax dollars to fund the research.
	Your guest said that we pretty much have solar panels figured out.
	It's just a matter of implementing them.
	Boy, how do you think people are going to react when gas gets to about three bucks a gallon,
	which it probably will by summer?
	Well, I don't know.
	I spent a lot of time over in Europe, in the Netherlands, and, you know, when I rent a car, that's the biggest expense is that $4 a gallon fuel over there.
	I know.
	And, you know, people, there's a growing segment of the population over there.
	We call them yuppies over there, too, and they're driving bigger cars and getting SUVs and driving all the time.
	So, you know, if people have the money they're going to pay, it is a free market system.
	It's just too bad for all the other people that get caught up in it.
	Well, you're absolutely right.
	Thank you very much for the call, and let me do this before I Forget it.
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	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM.
	Let's talk a little bit about the shadow government.
	Do you believe it's there?
	Yeah, we've heard that term, you know, for so many years and I thought it was this group in the Netherlands that sit behind smoked windows and make decisions like, you know, giant players of chess.
	But it isn't.
	We don't have the government anymore.
	What we have is a loose coalition of bureaucracies.
	But we have no representation in that government.
	So when I look at the Constitution, I see it as a really inspired and eternal document that has been sidestepped in almost every legal way possible.
	So the process itself has been intentionally manipulated to facilitate a certain style of government.
	And it's taken a while to set up.
	But I think it's set up now, and it's working just the way they like it.
	We need a systemic change.
	in order to let the republic be representative of the people again
	you're listening to art bell somewhere in time tonight featuring coast to coast
	a m from may thirtieth two thousand one back to it we go
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Cheers.
	Good morning.
	Oh, Art, I'm so glad I got a hold of you.
	This is Nancy from Toll House.
	I haven't talked to you for a lot of years.
	Well, I'm glad to talk to you now.
	Thanks for coming back, Art.
	Listen, I bought a really nice evaporative system, swamp cooler system for my house in Toll House.
	And I used to live in Yucca Valley, not far from where you live now.
	The difference between the old ones and the new ones is incredible.
	And I have one word for you, and that is up ducks.
	Up ducks.
	Up ducks.
	With the new system I had installed, they put holes in the ceiling.
	Yes.
	And instead of cracking the windows so that the air is expelled through the windows, it goes back up into the ceiling.
	There's less water in it, so you don't have limp paper in your house.
	You don't have the musty smell, even with dogs and cats.
	Really?
	No.
	And there's just one panel that holds water.
	It's about eight inches thick.
	There are not three or four that you have to replace all the time.
	I know, the amount of difference in power used is incredible.
	It's incredible, yes.
	Incredible.
	And I lived in the high desert, in the same conditions that you live, on the other side of the Death Valley.
	Right.
	Until the earthquake in Landers tore my house apart.
	So now I live up in Toll House.
	But this system works so well, I turn on my air conditioner Twice a year so that I can make sure that it works.
	If I ever want to sell the place, I know that it still works.
	That's incredible.
	It gets pretty high humidity here, about 47%.
	Oh, that's a lot more than here.
	Oh, it's way more.
	We used to get 7% in the desert down in Yucca Valley.
	That's right.
	And up here, it gets close to 50% and it's been running about 102, 103 here.
	And what does your inside temperature stay?
	Oh, I've got it set so that it kicks on at 75 degrees and it stays right about, it gets 78 degrees on a really hot day.
	Okay.
	78 I can handle.
	I hear you.
	That's when it's 105 in the humidity, that's 47%.
	You're not going to get that there.
	No, that's really oppressive.
	Because it cools the attic.
	It keeps my attic space about 10 degrees cooler, and I don't have trees tall enough to shade my house yet.
	Right.
	So I've got sun fiercely beating down on the house, and this place stays cool.
	Well, I'm certainly, it's something I'm willing to consider.
	What I wanted to do, and I actually had a company come out here and look at it.
	I wanted to put in, you know, I've got an outside, because I do live, people don't believe this, but I live in a mobile home.
	Yes, I understand.
	Very energy efficient mobile home.
	I lived in Indian Springs.
	And we've got a five ton air conditioner that's outside the house, and I wanted to put alongside that A similar unit and use the present ducting system that I have and see if that would work.
	I'm going to get back to it.
	The fellow didn't seem to think he could do it.
	Well, I had to have new ducts put in and that was the major part of the cost for putting in the big evaporative cooler I have now.
	It's the duct system have to be able to take that heavy blast of air.
	Because you've got that, the fan that spins in there, they call it the hamster wheel.
	Right.
	That blows a lot of air.
	I cannot use the same duct system that I had set up for the air conditioning system that came in this house.
	It would blow it up or something?
	Oh, it would just tear it all up.
	So we ran the new ducting and had completely different ducts put in.
	So I have two sets of ducts.
	And I have, I even have, I work on my, um, I restore old, old Chevy trucks in my garage and I had a down system put in my garage and I can literally go in my garage and work on a, on a vehicle on the hottest day.
	Wow.
	I just close off the, the, the vent that comes down in my, in my bedroom cause I'm not in there.
	I'm not using it.
	And I keep the one open in the living room cause the dogs refuse to come outside when it's that hot.
	I don't come trip me up in the garage, but, you know, they like to sleep in the afternoons.
	Well, I'm going to look into it.
	It's really well worth it.
	It's come a far distance from the old systems that you're probably familiar with.
	And the straw and the stuff, the paper that you put in there.
	Oh, yes.
	This stuff is very, very hard and, like I said, it's about eight inches thick and there's only one panel.
	Alright, listen, I've got to run.
	I'll check into it.
	Thank you very much.
	And I will check into it.
	I've been dying to try it.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 30th, 2001.
	She hears only whispers of some quiet conversations.
	She's coming in 1230 flights.
	The moonlit wings reflect the stars that guide her towards salvation.
	I stopped to know that along the way Hoping to find some old forgotten words Or ancient legends If you could read my mind, love What a tale my thoughts could tell Just like an old time movie About a ghost from a wishing well In a castle dark Or a fortress strong With chains upon my feet You know that ghost is me
	I will never be set free, as long as I'm a ghost you can't see.
	If I could read your mind, love, what a tale your thoughts could tell.
	Just like a paperback novel, the kind the drugstore sells When you reach the part where the heartaches come
	The hero would be me, the hero's often failed You won't read that book again because the ending's just
	too hard to take You won't read that book again because the ending's just
	too hard to take Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 30th, 2001.
	I'd walk away, but I'd never come back.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 30, 2001.
	I interviewed this man, Gordon Lightfoot, and he's really something.
	There's so much of his music that is so deep when you listen to the words.
	And I just had to interview him, and when I did, I found out that it was.
	That almost everything he wrote about related to his personal life.
	Some of it's some pretty rough stuff.
	But then again, that's what seems to inspire artists, isn't it?
	Rough stuff.
	Some of them, many of them, at their best when their personal lives are at their worst.
	Something to ponder.
	Why do you suppose that is?
	Why are the creative juices the greatest at the moments of greatest crisis?
	Hmm...
	Now, we take you back to the past on Arkbell Somewhere in Time.
	I don't know who did this, but pretty cute.
	One of the scariest ghost photos I ever saw, because I came upon it all at once, spontaneously on the air.
	I was going through ghost photos.
	We were doing a ghost show one night, and I was going through the recently submitted ghost photos, and I suddenly came upon this television set with a hand coming out of it.
	Oh my God, look at that.
	Somebody has taken that photo and made a front page photo out of it.
	Now every time you go to my website, you're going to get a different front page photo.
	So you don't go rushing up there right now because you probably won't see it.
	They're in rotation.
	But this one took that ghost photo and then wrote on the television, coast-to-coast AM with Art Bell, and a little caption coming out of the TV along with a hand.
	It says, want to take a ride?
	It's some of the really good art that has been provided to the website.
	And all the art you see up there, all those front page photos, are submitted by all of you.
	None of them are done by professional artists, unless it's for the love of doing it.
	Because they send them to us in email.
	Feel free to, if you want to submit one.
	But all of those are done by all of you.
	Really good stuff.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Yes, Art.
	This is Don in Hillsborough, Oregon.
	Hello, Don.
	Turn the radio off.
	Yes sir, there it is.
	I called you a while back about the stuff on the windshield of cars that I was going to send in and have tested.
	Yes.
	It came back as conifer pollen.
	Conifer pollen?
	But when I took it to the man, to the horticulturist, he said it hadn't looked like any kind of pollen he'd seen before.
	But then when I came back from OSU, they said it took me three days to get a hold of him.
	He called me back about three weeks after I'd sent it in, and they said it was Paul.
	Well, you know, interestingly, at the time that you called, or shortly after the time you called, we began to have this weird, incredible dust storm from China that was carried over courtesy of the The Jet Stream.
	Right.
	And all throughout the West, I was inundated with people saying they had stuff gathering also on their windshields.
	Well, guess what?
	It was part of China gathering on your windshield.
	Was it really?
	Yeah, that's right.
	Do you know Nick Conacom?
	No.
	You haven't heard the name?
	No, sir.
	Well, I heard him on a talk show, and he was saying something about he's tested this, and it's a biological spray that they're using.
	And he, seven out of nine tests that he's ran on it, he's seen red blood cells in it and barium.
	Yeah, I know.
	I'm very well aware of what you're talking about as it relates to whatever is being sprayed.
	Blood cells.
	What would blood cells be doing in it?
	I suppose that might be a contamination of the, you know, by the person taking the sample or even at the lab.
	Somehow you don't want to think of whatever it is coming out of the sky having blood cells in it of any kind.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Yes, sir.
	I was wanting to talk to Art a little bit about his last guest.
	Well, extinguish your radio for sure.
	Oh, definitely it will be off.
	No, no, you don't understand.
	This is Art and you are on the air.
	Oh, bless you, sir.
	Yeah, I can use it.
	I can use being blessed.
	Well, I could, too.
	We're just kind of a raunchy old bunch, right?
	Yes, we are.
	I was just wondering, the gentleman that you had on there had some very interesting ideas.
	Yes, yes.
	I worked with Dr. Malcolm Lillywhite up in Colorado back in 1973 on various alternate energy problems up there when we were first getting started in all of this.
	my biggest question was uh...
	uh...
	do you see any uh... future in balancing uh... nuclear energy is a base load against uh...
	well i'm alright i i i i think you know i i understand exactly what you're
	saying uh... how do you feel about nuclear power well i guess we
	could have asked him
	but that that really is not it would have been a almost a political view which would have been fine you know
	if i thought to ask But I think it's irrelevant to really everything that he was saying.
	What he really was saying is that we have more than adequate power supplies right now.
	If we just do a few basic things, I think that was the central tenet of his argument.
	Otherwise, on nuclear power, I couldn't and would not answer for him.
	What's to the Rockies?
	You're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	How you doing?
	Fine.
	This is Trey calling from Juneau, Alaska.
	Trey, huh?
	Yes.
	How do you spell that?
	T-R-E-Y.
	My nickname.
	Really?
	Hell yeah.
	I was Trey all my early life.
	To my parents, I'm still Trey.
	Really?
	Yes.
	God, it was a horrible name to grow up with.
	I wanted to change it.
	I really did.
	For a long time, I wasn't happy.
	Well, it was my nickname.
	Really?
	I take it that you're tagged with this permanently.
	Yeah, it's my real official name, yeah.
	They gave it to me because I'm Arthur W. Bell III.
	Trey.
	French.
	Three.
	You get it?
	Oh, three.
	Yeah, there was three in our family, too.
	There you are.
	Yeah, there it is.
	Well, the only solution is either the courts or time travel.
	Yeah, time travel.
	Boy, that's an interesting subject.
	Wish I could do it.
	Yes, well, maybe you could go back and just, I don't know, somehow suggest to whoever it is that picked out your name that they should go have a sandwich and think about it some more.
	That's good, that's great.
	Hey, let me ask you a question.
	I was listening to your show, oh gosh, I think it was a week or two ago, you had that guy on that was playing the tapes of the people that were supposedly possessed.
	Oh yes.
	Boy, you know what was really weird about that?
	The next day I went to a friend of mine's house and they were watching The Exorcist, which I thought was a really strange coincidence.
	Well, possibly.
	That's more synchronicity than coincidence.
	Yeah, I think so.
	Do you think that stuff is real or do you think it's fakery?
	I lean toward real.
	If you're asking me, and I think you are, do I think people can be possessed?
	Yes, I lean toward real.
	As with most things that I'm unable to concretely explain, that's all I can do is lean toward real.
	I don't know.
	It seems real on both sides.
	Demonic possession, it seems real.
	That's about as far as I can go, so I lean toward real.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Oh, hello, Mr. Bell.
	How are you doing?
	OK.
	Listen, I'm sorry I missed most of Richard Perez.
	I've seen some of his videotapes.
	He's an incredible guy.
	Yes, he is.
	Well, that's what they make the Internet for, so you can go back and listen to the program.
	Right.
	I was wondering, did Richard say anything about keeping your refrigerator coils clean?
	Well, what he said about refrigerators was that they sell ones now for about the regular price that use one-third the energy of refrigerators that are like five years old.
	Wow.
	One-third.
	And the cost is similar?
	Yes.
	Well, this is what I found anyhow.
	I mean, obviously, listen, obviously keeping your coils clean or doing anything that allows whatever it is you have to run a little more efficiently is going to save you some money.
	But what I just told you is so significant.
	I mean, it's two thirds of the total cost of running that fridge, which really means if it's five years old, you really ought to go buy a new one.
	How about that?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Alright, so yeah, I sympathize with you.
	And of course, people should keep their coils clean and whatever, but that's such a big difference.
	That's not a small difference.
	Clean the coils, it's a small difference.
	Go and buy a new one if it's five years old, and you're paying one-third to run it what you were five years ago.
	Yeah, all right.
	Good evening.
	Good evening.
	KOMO in Washington.
	Seattle.
	Okay, a suggestion on your air conditioning.
	Put the evaporative cooler in front of the fan on your air conditioner.
	That might reduce the load on the air conditioner, but that wasn't what I really wanted to talk about.
	I have not heard anything in the way of space-powered satellite power systems.
	Nobody's talking about it.
	Well, yes they are.
	They're talking about it a little bit.
	They're talking about all kinds of crazy things.
	For example, Yes, you could have collection in space and then you could have a microwave beam that would bring the power to Earth.
	And it is perhaps a viable idea.
	I read a book called Sunstroke, which talked about exactly that technology getting out of hand, and the microwave beam, and the safeties all going wrong, and then the microwave beam beginning to wander across the land, turning people into crispy critters, and as it went.
	So I've always wondered about that, every time we've talked about that.
	The other thing they're talking about that I am really interested in, you're not going to believe this, But there is a proposal that NASA is considering.
	So brace yourself now.
	Brace yourself.
	An elevator into a geosynchronous orbit.
	I'm serious.
	An elevator.
	Like the one you go into in a building and press a button.
	Literally.
	They say it actually would be technically feasible.
	And possible.
	To build an elevator from Earth to geosynchronous orbit.
	22,000 plus miles up.
	Or maybe even into low Earth orbit.
	Maybe that was it.
	I don't see how that would be possible.
	The satellite would, it seems to me, have to be stationary with respect to Earth, but maybe that's...
	Inaccurate.
	At any rate, there is some kind of proposal to have an elevator to orbit.
	Yes, the kind of elevator you have in buildings.
	Check into it.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Grant from Monterey.
	Yes, sir.
	I tuned in a little late to your show last night.
	It was a fascinating show.
	Yes, on... Abduction.
	Yes, a very serious subject.
	Yes, it is.
	I tuned in a little late and I was wondering if you wouldn't mind summarizing on the hive theory that was put forth.
	I missed that completely.
	Alright.
	And also, well, I guess that would be about it.
	Alright, that's plenty.
	That's a mouthful right there.
	Well, it was the conclusion of my guest.
	After 35 years of study of abductions, that we are in the middle of an invasion, that this invasion is taking place right in front of our eyes, that all of these abductions, and there are tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands or more, are with a purpose.
	And the purpose, ultimately, is that we all, meaning us and them, live together, happily ever after.
	That we will be happy.
	But then you begin asking about the culture of this, of them.
	And the answer is, it's a hive mentality.
	And the happiness that they explain we will experience, will be as members of the hive.
	How do you feel about that?
	Happy, happy worker bees.
	The entire human population.
	Happy, happy little worker bees.
	All working for some common good and some common goal.
	So what do you think?
	Ready to sign on the dotted line?
	Become part of that?
	Wildcard line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey Art, how you doing?
	I'm doing fine.
	This is Java from Portland, Oregon.
	Yes, sir.
	Um, well, I'm not really, you know, feeling much like talking about what I talked about the last couple of nights.
	I just kind of want to say that I do tend to take a lot of, you know, my own thinking with a grain of salt.
	Uh, you know, after listening to your last two calls, sir, I agree with you, and you should continue to take everything that you say and think with a grain of salt, if not a large boulder.
	Houston to the Rockies, you're on the air.
	There you are.
	Hello.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	Right.
	There you are.
	Uh, hydrogen.
	I heard stuff a long time ago, uh, that even read in Popular Science, Popular Mechanics.
	Hydrogen fuel cells.
	A few cells that they could shoot, uh, armor-piercing bullets and stuff through, they would explode anything, and, uh, MIT had a little core running around on hydrogen, Uh, gas and... What happened to that?
	Um, I don't know.
	What I'm going to do for you, and for everybody else, is to investigate hydrogen fuel cells.
	They are on the horizon.
	And why they're not moving faster, and why we're not hearing more about them, I don't know.
	But we will endeavor to find out.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Art!
	Yes!
	Wonderful!
	This is Rone, from Ogden, Utah.
	I've listened to you over the internet.
	Yes, I know you only as a very popular tower.
	The Rone 25 and the Rone... Anyway.
	I wanted to tell you about probably the most incredible hidden discovery.
	About 25 years ago, in the Mother Earth News, there was, in the magazine, there was this guy in New Mexico who used University of New Mexico's computer in an attempt to build a cheaper house that could be manufactured faster and be cheaper overall to sell.
	Right.
	Well, the computer told him exactly what to do, and he built one.
	But he didn't have the money to put in the fancy heating and cooling system, which in that part of New Mexico, it's like 130 degrees in the summer and minus 10 in the winter.
	So, but he did have the sensors in the house for the temperatures.
	Yes.
	And he found he didn't need a heating and cooling system.
	The house conducted the ground temperature up into the house and it stayed exactly the same temperature with no extra cost whatsoever.
	Well, I discussed that with Mr. Perez a little earlier.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	I must have missed that.
	You did miss it.
	Yes, once you get six feet down, The temperature is a constant, a rather reasonable constant, and you really wouldn't have to heat or air condition if you actually had a house down there.
	Otherwise, you can put devices down there that will translate the heat from your house and cool in the summer, and then the opposite.
	This is different than that.
	This house is above the ground completely.
	It's an ordinary looking track house.
	Yes.
	But it has no pumps in it.
	Right.
	The wall has a certain thickness of cement, and the cement conducts the temperature up into the house.
	So it really makes a bubble, rather than having to go to any extra design.
	No, I understand exactly what you're saying.
	No matter how you get it from the ground to the house, it doesn't matter as long as you can do it.
	Oh, yeah.
	We're out of time.
	That's all there is for tonight.
	Tomorrow night we're going to talk again about shadow people.
	I've actually found somebody who has been investigating shadow people for the last 11 years.
	Long time, huh?
	Compared to how long we've been talking about it.
	And she's a doctor and she's got a website up.
	So you're going to want to check that out prior to her appearance.
	11 years in the works.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AF.

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