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May 31, 2001 - Art Bell

02:54:40

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Shadow People - Dr. Morgan Spence

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01:04:45

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01:05:00

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast A.M. from May 31st, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest.
		I visit you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be across this great land of ours and well beyond.
		Commercially, from the island of Guam in the Pacific, to Zaraq, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, and our rocks, south into South America, north all the way to the Pole and worldwide on the internet.
		This is coast to coast, to coast to coast to coast, A.M. Hi there, everybody.
		Welcoming yet another new affiliate tonight.
		That would be KTXX in Salinas, California.
		1460 on the dial in Salinas.
		I know that area well.
		And I'd like to say hello to Jeff Wilson, who's the general manager there, and Corey Michaels.
		Both of these people are really nice guys.
		So there you have it, yet another new one getting that close to 500 affiliates.
		KTXX Salinas 1460.
unidentified		So if you're in the area, check them out.
unidentified		This way will you hear what you've got in store for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even I don't know.
unidentified		First of all, you on the website tonight, something pretty cool.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know whether you knew this or not, but I'm kind of friends with Billy Gibbons from ZZ Top.
		And Billy wrote me a letter, actually wrote Ramona and I a letter, and with it sent a photograph that is so cool.
		I had no idea Billy was doing this.
		Billy went up in the vomit comet and experienced weightlessness.
		God, I would love to do that.
		I wonder how much it costs to go up in that thing.
		Anyway, we've got a copy of the letter that he sent to us, to Ramona and myself, and that we've got a photograph of Billy in the vomit comet.
		And then, if you keep going down a little bit, you're going to see a wonderful article.
		But in the middle, between the letter and the photograph, you will see Sea Vomit Comet Video, 800K, MPEG.
		And in that, you will see Billy Gibbons floating in the air with his guitar floating above his head.
		Pretty cool stuff.
		So, all right for you, Billy.
		Billy, let me know, will you, what it costs to do that?
		That's something I'd really, really, really love to do.
		If even, you know, just once.
		Get up there and explain.
		What do you suppose weightlessness is really like?
		I have no idea.
		The closest thing that we, I guess, can experience on Earth to weightlessness, obviously, is diving in a pool or in the ocean or in water, right?
		Weightless, sort of, but not quite the same thing as just floating in air.
		Just floating in the air.
		Can you imagine that?
		Well, Billy did it.
		So we've got the letter, we've got the photograph, and we've got the video, courtesy of ZZ Tops Billy Gibbons.
		Now, McVay, I see, indeed, today asked a judge to delay his execution, which is strange.
		I don't get it.
		He wanted to die, right?
		And then the FBI came along and said, well, we've got these documents, but they don't bear on guilt.
		And now he wants to delay his own execution.
		So, I don't know.
		Maybe as he got closer to meeting with whoever he's going to meet when that time comes, he decided he'd rather put it off for a while.
		Senator James Jeffords, who last week left the Republican Party, has decided to give all his money back to those who supported him when he ran for office.
		An honorable thing to do, I guess.
		And that might be a lot of money.
		It costs a lot of money to run for the Senate, millions and millions of dollars.
		President Bush would like a military spending increase in 2002.
		In addition to the $5.6 billion hike he is planning for the current Pentagon budget, it would seem that he wants even more.
		So he might add even more to his originally proposed $310 billion budget.
		And so I, you know, I don't know.
		What are we doing?
		Who is it we are protecting against?
		The Chinese, sure, to some degree, I guess.
		But it seems to me with the Soviet bloc gone, and they really are gone, I mean, they are just absolutely clueless, moneyless, without any clear political direction.
		They're just gone.
		Yes, the nukes are still there, of course.
		But it seems to me a time that we would not necessarily be increasing our military budget, maybe holding steady, but I don't know about increasing.
		But that's what they're going to do.
		We are going to do a program tonight on the shadow people.
		And there is a lady who contacted me, a doctor, Dr. Morgan Spence, who said she has been researching the shadow people for 11 years.
		She has a new website up.
		It just went up, last few days, called shadowbeings.com.
		We've got a link on our site to it.
		She'll be here next hour.
		But I thought I would read you the following letter.
		And this is just plucked out among thousands and thousands and thousands of letters.
		Art, I would like to start off by respectfully requesting that my name, location, and company be withheld should you choose to air any of my theory as to the cause of the increased sightings of shadow people and he goes on to explain where he works he is a very technical person let me tell you I'm withholding the information very technical person he says his job requires him to report accurately and technically when I first heard about shadow people I said okay
		mass hysteria or simple minds at work.
		I understand some people have seen shadow people for many years.
		I have a theory of why sightings may be increasing.
		I'd never seen one or anything else paranormal till this weekend.
		Two reasons I feel might have caused this and possibly be the cause of more prevalent sightings of this phenomenon.
		This weekend at work, we were testing a laser scanning display that we manufacture for military aircraft.
		For many hours, I was looking at this display which rapidly flashes patterns generated by the laser assembly which simulates generating 3D images of ground targets.
		I guess you can begin guessing where he works, huh?
	The system is mounted in an aircraft and it scans objects with a laser.
	The computer then takes the length of each beam pulse and returns to generate an image similar to how a sonar works.
	Anyway, I was also just happening...
	I happened to purchase a DVD player this weekend.
	I was quite impressed with the quality and sharpness of the picture but I noticed that my eyes felt different while I was watching a rather long movie about D-Day.
	Nothing uncomfortable or bothersome, just different.
	When I returned to work and began working with the laser again, I noticed this feeling increasing.
	It felt as if my vision was speeding up, kind of like I was looking at things in slightly fast forward.
	At first, I thought it was from fatigue.
	But I noticed the edges of my vision becoming pixelated, not blurry.
	But the image was a collage of small flashing blocks, kind of like looking through some really small block glass.
	I guess you've all done that, right?
	Only being able to focus clearly on a central cone directly in front of me.
	I knew the laser had something to do with it, so I took a break, rubbed my eyes, went to get some coffee.
	As I was pouring my cup, that's when I saw it.
	My vision was still in the pixelated state, but I noticed a quick dark blur out of the corner of my left eye.
	When I turned, well, let's just say, I was glad to have used the restroom earlier.
	There, in the corner of the office, was what looked like a small child wearing a dark robe of smoke huddled in the corner.
	I could not make out the face or any details, but I could tell that as I stood there staring at it, it was turning its head to look at me.
	When its head was in alignment, so it was, in quotes, looking at me, it stood to about four feet tall, quickly sprinted along the wall, and just vanished.
	Not into anything, but like it began moving fast enough, like going into warp speed or something, so I couldn't quite see it anymore.
	It just stopped existing in front of me as it spent along the wall.
	Art, I know what I saw.
	I just stood there, frozen with fear, because I had no idea what in the hell I was seeing.
	We remained looking at each other for at least 20 seconds before it sped off.
	I was wondering how many people who report seeing shadow people own and frequently use equipment that produces rapidly moving digital images, DVDs, PCs, digital camcorders, and cameras, that are displayed at different or possibly higher or lower frame rates than our eyes are normally used to seeing.
	Is the light going on there, folks?
	Anyway, he goes on, I'm sure looking at the laser display for hours could only have accelerated these effects.
	I'm telling you, Art, I don't believe in ghosts or spirits.
	I was an army ranger before entering my current field.
	I've seen plenty of things out in the woods at night.
	It'll get your heart pounding and freeze you for a second.
	Those things go away when you look right at them.
	And we were trained to look at things with the edge of your vision, using the cones in your eyes to prevent night illusions and images, mirages.
	The damn thing just became more visible and pronounced when I looked directly at it, and I have no idea what it was.
	Thank you for your time, and he signs it along with the company he works for that you would know and respect.
	That, my friend, is a shadow being.
	Thought you might want to hear that.
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		at this point I'm not happy with the direction that government is taking.
		I'm happy with the fact that Americans are beginning to wake up and stand up and do what they have to do and shout and scream and blog.
		And I think that's critical.
		And I think that's what's going to save the Republic.
		I think in the long run, as we go through all this stuff, it's the people who will save us and our country will remain strong.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 31, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music So I've had literally thousands of, I think now, 8,000 or 9,000 shadow person letters and emails and phone calls, and tonight we're going to deal with it.
		Oh, by the way, booking Ed Dames out at about, I think, June 8th.
		Out at about June 8th.
		Talked to Ed earlier today.
		He's going to go to work on two things for us.
		One, the city underwater, a half mile under the water, off the coast of Cuba, and the shadow people.
		Ed Dames is very interested, and he's going to take a look at those two, and we'll have him on June 8th, so I thought I'd give you a heads up on that one.
		Here's a kind of an interesting fact.
		Art, I was looking over the census data and found that every state in the country gained people, biggest gainers, west and south, and east is still growing, but at a slower percentage.
		Before you know it, the whole country will be one massive urban sprawl full of congested roads with road rage everywhere, trucks barreling down the highways trying to keep up with the commerce, continuous pounding of keyboards day in and day out for workers in white-collar firms,
		smog and soot oozing from the new factories that will have to be built to employ the masses after our higher education system can no longer handle the population boom, a return to coal-burning power plants because of terrible planning, waves of bandits and organized crime rings moving from region to region, going undetected under the shield of overpopulation.
		Boy, that sounds a little mad maxi to me.
		But on the other hand, most of those trends that he talked about are certainly well underway, huh?
		Somebody writes with regard to last night's announcement about the heat in San Francisco.
		It may be 101 degrees on the west coast, but we have the heat here in Missouri.
		It is still in the 60s.
		He's being facetious.
		The crops are not yet planted in the fields.
		It rains every day.
		I'm so sick of cloudy overcast days.
		At least two and a half weeks since we've seen the sun.
		Hard to believe.
		They're burning up on the west coast while we're burning up heat fuel here.
		Larry in north central Missouri.
		Well, that's exactly what's going to happen, folks.
		People misinterpret global warming to mean that everything is going to warm up, and to some degree that is true.
		But in between, there are going to be extremes.
		Global warming and greenhouse gases are going to mean extremes, that we're going to get bigger storms, that it's going to be hotter, it's going to be colder, it's going to be wilder all the way around.
		So I'm not surprised at all what he's saying about Missouri.
		And the crops not yet planted.
		I'm not surprised about that either.
		Last night I told you that I think we're now to the point with the weather change that the argument about whether or not it's changing despite who is doing it, that argument is over.
		It is changing, profoundly changing, and we're in the middle of it right now.
		And that what we really ought to be working on, in my opinion, my humble opinion, is adjusting to the change.
		I mean, everybody wants to go on living reasonably normally, right?
		So we will have to adjust to the change.
		If where you can farm begins to move a little bit and you notice a big fall-offs in farm output, which you will, that's going to mean things have to begin moving.
		It's going to mean that those who are in charge of protecting us and looking out for our interests are going to have to make judgments about how to begin to modify things a little bit.
		I know it's scary, but I think it's reality.
		He writes, hey, Art, my theory is that just like at nighttime, here we go again, you see a sodium vapor light and watch someone's wheels turning while traveling down the road, they appear to move backwards, stand still, or move forward, right?
		We are just frequency beings, only able to detect some frequencies modulated by our sun, artificial lighting, even time itself.
		These shadow beings are living at a different frequency beyond the frames per second our eyes can understand.
		Only when another frequency beats with the shadow people and ghosts do we see the subcarrier in the corner of our eye.
		Does this make sense to you?
		Please ask your guest about it tonight.
		Thanks, Gary.
		Thousands, thousands like this, but they are beginning to come to an interesting consensus.
		As you listen to these letters, are you noticing that too?
		A kind of an interesting consensus that everything is frequency bound and that whatever it is, modern technology as outlined in the first letter or just some things around as suggested in the first letter and punctuated by Gary, modern things that are beginning to cause us to see harmonics and beats.
		And when that occurs, we see these things we're calling shadow people.
		They've been here all along.
		They're all around us.
		We just don't see them because we're not moving fast enough.
		Why would you imagine suddenly we're beginning to see them.
		Well, one thing you definitely might imagine is that new technology like DVDs, things that use lasers, camcorders, a lot of things that might begin to speed us up a little bit in terms of frames per second and get us accustomed to watching something a little faster, the moment we begin to just edge ahead a little faster in our vision, boom, there they are.
		Now, what about whatever they are?
		There they are.
		And what about this aspect that seems to indicate they're used to the fact that they can see us, but when we see them, they freak out.
		And they run.
		And when they run, they're going then faster than we can see them.
		And so to our eyes, they disappear.
		That doesn't mean they're gone.
		That just means they're now moving at a frequency we really can't see.
unidentified		So we're beginning to edge toward them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's just something that's happening.
		And our technology, to some degree, I believe, is assisting.
		Now, this is just the latest number 10 theory, but I think it's a pretty doggone good one.
		And I want you all to consider it.
		At any rate, we will consider it very hard in the next hour.
		In the next half hour, we will open the lines and see what's on your mind out there.
		So, prepare thyselves.
		You know, we really live in strange times, don't we?
		Exciting, strange times.
		The old Chinese curse is upon us.
		I'm Art Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		This is Premier Networks.
		That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
		The End
		The End Run by the wind, throw the sky in a spin I gave you up a bought to win.
		I made it to the top.
		I gave you all I have to see.
		I did have to stop, you've blown it all sky high, by telling me a lie, without a reason why, you've blown it all sky high.
		You've blown it all sky high, our love has been to fight, we couldn't have touched the sky, you've blown it all sky high.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast A.M. from May 31, 2001.
		Love to talk to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got a half hour of Ovid Lines before Dr. Spence comes on and tells us whatever she knows about shadow people.
		Again, she's been looking into them for 11 years.
		You know, I was looking again at, you really got to see this on my website, artbell.com.
		ZZTOP is a group that I've been communicating with for a while, Billy Gibbons.
		And you look at Billy Gibbons hovering in midair and watch the video.
		The video is really cool.
		I mean, here he is hovering in midair and his guitar is floating above him in the video.
		Altogether too cool.
		And it occurred to me that maybe I should interview Billy, not about music, but about what it's like to be weightless.
		I really would like to try this myself.
		And maybe a way to find out about it would be to get Billy Gibbons on the air and let him tell all of you what it's like.
		I wonder if he'd do an interview just on that subject.
		What do you think?
		I'm actually thinking I would like to try this myself.
		I think I would like to try it.
		Now, in the world of safe and unsafe, my company and hopefully even my wife would agree that this would be safe.
		Just once in my life, I would like to experience weightlessness.
		Even if it probably turns your stomach inside out.
		They don't call it the vomit comet for nothing.
		In fact, actually, if you look at the picture, I'm looking at the picture of the inside of the aircraft, and it looks like there's a whole bunch of dents in the metal back there.
		I wonder if that's where people hit the metal.
		I don't know.
		It's hard to tell what's in the background there.
		It almost looks like dents in metal.
		I hope that's not heads that impacted on the metal.
		Anyway, it'd be somebody tell Billy that I'd like to interview him about what it's like to be weightless.
		And if it sounds cool enough, really cool enough, and I'm betting that it will, I will go and do it myself.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 31, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, this letter, the longer one I read you from the gentleman in the high-tech industry, I sent that along to Keith.
		Keith, you might check your email if you see if you still have it.
		If you do, you might want to post it.
		In doing so, though, please remove this gentleman's employment information and the information about his job and his name and all the rest of it at the bottom.
		But leave the explanation.
		It's the best I've ever heard.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, how you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm all right, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in St. Louis, Missouri.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		St. Louis, all right.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		Well, I want to start off with the first two shadow people occurrences that I've had.
		You've had them.
		One was in my house, and one was right before I was getting ready to go into my apartment door.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Where I go into the apartment complex toward my house.
		Right.
		Okay, well, what started was I was just simply riding my bike up through my up through the sidewalk.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old are you?
unidentified		I'm 19.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		19?
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Well, actually, I want to compare that to one of the drawings that you have on the internet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, and we have a lot of drawings, yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, the one that's perfect for it is the, I can't really describe the one, but it's, I can't really describe it.
unidentified		It's like a little child, but it's just an image.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Maybe we can get Keith for tonight to bring the drawings back since we're going to be talking about this.
		Keith, if you would, under what's new just for tonight, it's probably under what's older.
unidentified		Well, it was the exact one that I saw.
unidentified		It ran right through the door and went in through the crack.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It ran through.
unidentified		Excuse me.
unidentified		It ran right in front of me, ran right in front of me and went through the door crack.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, there's two things I'm noticing about the people that seem to be seeing what you just saw, and that is one, they're by and large younger people like yourself.
unidentified		They're really young childs, like little childs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying you saw a young child.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm saying the people seeing these beings seem to be younger.
unidentified		Okay.
		Well, the other one, I was just going into my living room looking out my sliding door, and it was just right out my sliding door.
		And my siding door was just slightly open.
		Yes.
		You could just shoot through.
		Shoot right through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you could see it full on.
unidentified		I saw it pull up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate your call, sir.
unidentified		No, I have also one little thing.
		What's that?
		I feel, I just wanted to make a theory about some things that we may overlook.
		That's probably right on your eye now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, did you hear the letter that I read?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Well, I had something different, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, I know.
		But I know.
		But with regard to shadow people, did you hear that letter about DVD players and lasers and all the rest of the teams and everything?
unidentified		Yeah.
		But I think it's something that we overlook, actually.
		It's just different.
		Okay.
		It has something to do with women.
		Women?
		I would say, yeah.
		The power of the women.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At 19, everything has to do with women.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Like, I'm thinking that it's the frequency that they control.
		It's an exercise that they do that alters these saddle people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It might be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Blame it on women.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Yeah, sure, why not?
		You never know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You never know.
		Maybe that's what we're talking about.
		Women.
		By the way, we had an interesting experience today.
		Every now and then, Ramona will go into town on some other mission, but on the way back, she will pick up our favorite McDonald's.
		And they have a new burger.
		Ramona, come tell me what it is again, please.
		I forget the name of it.
		But I should tell you so that you'll understand the rest of the story.
		McDonald's has a new burger that they make.
		And at any rate, she went in and ordered three of them.
		Brought them home.
		Yes?
		A double deluxe.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I would never let you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, you will.
		Yes, you will.
		There's nothing unsafe about that.
		Close the door.
		A double veto power, my.
		A double deluxe.
		A double deluxe.
		And these are relatively new, I think, with McDonald's.
		And so we think they're pretty good.
		And she brought home three of them.
		And I opened up the first one.
		And I looked down at it.
		Talk about disappointment.
		Here we've got, I think, a pickle, some lettuce, some kind of secret sauce, and maybe a little slice of tomato.
		But no meat.
unidentified		No meat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I said, oh.
		I opened up the second one.
		Same deal.
		Opened up the third one.
		Same deal.
		They're veggie witches.
		I don't know what they are.
		They're minus the meat, and it just doesn't work out.
		So we called them up, and they said, well, come tomorrow and get replacements.
		We don't just idly drive 20 miles, you know, to get replacement burgers.
		Veggie witches.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Stephen Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Steve.
unidentified		Just listening to your theory there from the high-tech guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		The whole thing crystallizes because in the early days, in fact, when I speak to people about this, the first thing they say is this, oh yeah, I see those out of the corner of my eye all the time.
unidentified		And usually their story starts with late at night when I'm sitting at the computer, and there they are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ta-da.
unidentified		And I was just wondering, it reminds me of a timing light on your automobile.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		You put it down, and you can finally see the line when it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Same time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Same idea.
unidentified		So I was wondering if Ghostbusters should start carrying these timing lights.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe so.
		I really think we're on to something here.
		I think that man is definitely on to something.
unidentified		And the people who see them head on, it's usually at night, and it's lit by artificial lighting from the street.
		And everybody knows that the streets are not the same kind of lighting you have in your house.
		That's an argon or a fluorescent or some other frequency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct again.
unidentified		Just had to throw my two cents worth of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But think about it.
		Think about what's enabling us to begin to see them.
		We have stumbled across a gigantic, incredibly large phenomenon that's real, and there are creatures coexisting on the planet with us that we're just now starting to see.
		That's pretty incredible stuff.
unidentified		Pretty incredible, but it could be caused because more and more cities are going to these energy-saving lights.
unidentified		Here, and the flutter speed of the light itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, I understand, but it's not, thank you, it's not just the lights.
		As you pointed out, it's a computer.
		It's a flicker factor.
		It's frames per second.
		It's the speed at which you're seeing things.
		If we're talking about different frequencies here, when you begin seeing things at a slightly faster rate, you begin seeing what you couldn't see before.
		And they're all around us.
		And they're real.
		I don't have the slightest idea what they are.
		But they seem, again, they seem aware that they can see us and only shocked when we can apparently see them.
		So they coexisted with us, seeing us.
		Which will sort of give you a case of goosebumps to begin with.
		Right?
		But now we're beginning to see them.
		And oh, are they surprised?
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, hi, Art.
		I've been a fan of yours for years.
		I'm glad you're back on.
		And I'm really interested in this.
		I've got three things that I've brought that I've got.
		Two books.
		I won't bring the name of the authors up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why not?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can.
unidentified		Okay.
		Because there were subjects I've listened to you talk about before from different people you've talked with online that are, how do I say, experts.
		When we were talking about the Sphinx and everything about the aliens and UFOs.
		And I've read a book called Area 51 by this gentleman named Robert Doherty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And it talks about how they're saying this is that he's saying the Sphinx decks should be communication beacons for aliens through the tops or some way metal instead of brick.
		Talking about how some aliens might have been down on this earth so many years ago that might have helped with history without us really knowing it.
		And I thought that was pretty neat.
		And another book of God, when you were talking about with one of your experts who talked about what's going on in Antarctica, I read a book called Subterranean by this guy named James Rollins that talked about a cavern in Antarctica where actually prehistoric people and creatures live in Antarctica in a cavern.
		And these people are going over there and these creatures are like mammal reptilians.
		And then they could have babies as well as tear you up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Baby reptilians?
unidentified		Yeah, like reptilian, baby reptilians and everything and they're like mammal reptilians.
		It's kind of weird to kind of have babies and look like, and according to description, like little Trinoceros rexes that run around tearing people up.
		I know that was pretty neat.
		Plus, the thing I wanted to bring up too, Art, was that I actually had a UFO experience when I was a kid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Saw a UFO.
unidentified		And I always wanted to bring it up to you ever since I've heard you on radio.
unidentified		And I thought I'd bring it up to you tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you are now one of the majority of Americans.
unidentified		And it feels good, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, listen, thank you very much, and take care.
		Most Americans now have seen a UFO.
		I don't know what percentage of that majority would say that they had seen something from elsewhere.
		Remember, a UFO is simply an unidentified flying object.
		So unless you have a close-up view of it, you're unlikely to characterize it as coming from somewhere else.
		And yet most of the American people, the majority, think that life does exist elsewhere.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		No?
		Don't clone that button.
		West of the Rockies, now you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		This is Ruth from Orange, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Ruth.
unidentified		Yes, and I want to talk about the shadow people.
		Okay.
		Yeah, it's really weird, and I even hate to bring it up, but I haven't heard you mention anyone hearing anything from the shadow people.
		Now, let me explain what happened to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are correct.
unidentified		I live alone, and I have about three or four locks on my front door.
		It's only one door out because I'm in an apartment.
		And I went to bed.
		I usually read before I turn out the light, but I have a nightlight on.
		I turn the light off, and as I turn it off, I heard something kind of in my living room.
		And I thought, oh, gee, what's that?
		And I'm laying there with the light, a nightlight on.
		It shadows my hallway.
		I look up, and I see this black shadow of a man.
		And it seemed like he was coming real fast in the hall.
		Then when he looks up and sees me, he comes towards me.
		I threw the sheet over my head, and I said, oh!
		And he leaned over me and said, boo!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once?
unidentified		Yes.
		And that's why I'm calling.
		Otherwise, I wouldn't have to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you remember whether there was, in other words, was this the classic picture of the shadow person, sort of a...
unidentified		It was just like I saw the arms, the head, but I couldn't see a face.
		It was just black.
		Everything was black, but it was a shadow of a person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you threw the sheet over.
unidentified		I did because he was coming right towards me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he said, boo.
unidentified		And he leaned over and said, boo, and finally, I didn't hear anything, and I pulled the cover back a little.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
unidentified		I couldn't sleep for two hours.
unidentified		I got up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't sleep for two days.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So apparently the shadow people have a sense of humor.
unidentified		Well, I don't know.
		You know, the first thing that came into my mind was I know someone is getting close to going on the other side.
		And I thought, oh, gee, I wonder if they've already gone.
		But I thought, I don't believe in stuff like this.
		But that actually happened, and I called about three people that I'm close to and told them what happened.
		And they said, oh, gee, Louise, maybe that's the, what is it?
		Some people meditate and they say they can transform their spirit to another location or something.
		And I thought, oh, I don't know, but I don't want to get caught up in that realm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As in out-of-body travel.
unidentified		Out-of-body experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's been another theory that people have had about what it might be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if it actually, it clearly said the word, boo.
unidentified		Boo.
		Yes.
		That's what hits me because I haven't heard any of your.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was in a man's voice.
unidentified		Yes.
		Actually, when I pulled the cover over, I knew it was right there in front of me or the side of my bed, and I could see him.
		He leaned over and said, boo.
		And I thought I was going to have a heart attack.
		Yes.
		And yet none of my bolts on my door were undone.
		The windows were all locked.
		And I sat there and I thought, my God, I can't believe this.
		And it was about 12.30 or 1 o'clock in the morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have no idea how I appreciate your call.
unidentified		Thank you.
unidentified		Take care.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bye.
		There's another one.
		And so they just flood, flood, flood in.
		I think the man who sent me this letter really has a good handle on what it is.
		It is by far the best technical explanation that you can glom onto that makes sense.
		I may read this email again.
		I may read it again.
		I wonder if we can get it posted.
		Let me see.
		Not yet.
		Oh, wait a minute.
		Let me do a reload here.
		No, not yet.
		It's likely that Keith may not have kept it.
		I did forward this to Keith, but it was a few days ago.
		So I'd love to get it up on the website and let you read it at your leisure.
		We'll see.
		I'll talk to Keith during the break.
		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Argo.
		Yes, sir.
		Nice to talk to you.
		This is Vicki in California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Vicki.
unidentified		I loved that theory that you read.
unidentified		That was great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not bad, huh?
unidentified		Yeah, and it makes so much sense.
		It goes along with those tenets in metaphysics where everything exists in a state of vibration.
		It would make perfect sense.
		And I thought it was really astute that you said that they were younger people and think about all the kids doing video games and that kind of thing all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the majority of the people calling me about this have been in their, at the latest 30s mostly, then 20s and then teens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really intriguing, isn't it?
unidentified		It makes a lot of sense.
		Enjoy your show a lot.
		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, thank you, and take care.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hey, how you doing, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing okay, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Iron Mike from Minnesota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Iron Mike.
unidentified		Iron Mike, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I've been trying to get a hold of you for months.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Iron Mike, we better proceed because we're coming up on the top of the.
unidentified		Yeah, the end of the hour.
		Yeah.
		Well, no, I got two things for you.
		Go.
		First, I had a 2050 headline for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		2050 headline.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Go.
		Extinction of mankind due to overproduction of soy and green.
		I saw you get a laugh out of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I saw the same movie.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Okay.
		Tell me, why, you know, with the controversy, controversy about man going to the moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about it?
unidentified		Why don't they use the Hubble telescope to focus in on the moon landing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they say the moon is too close and too bright that the sensitive electronics on the Hubble will not work with the moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I never liked that explanation.
unidentified		I think that's on the side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, listen, I gotta go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The hour's over.
unidentified		Say goodbye.
unidentified		Thanks, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, bye.
unidentified		The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		More Somewhere in Time coming up.
		More Somewhere in Time coming up.
		That day, when you first came my way, I said no one could take your way.
		And if you get hurt, if you get hurt.
		by the little things I say, I can set my back on your...
		She's got the move my soul, and she knows I love you, love her.
		But she lets me down every time you make her mind.
		She's no one's lover tonight with me.
		She'll be so inviting.
		I want her all for myself.
		Oh, I can't understand.
		I'm looking through my mind, my mind.
		Oh, I can't understand.
		You gotta love me.
		Gotta love me tonight.
		You gotta love me, baby, yeah.
		You gotta love me.
		Oh, my body and face is just the same, but just the same.
		My head is spinning.
		I'm playing and keep me on her side.
		It's just the five.
		Premier Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 31st, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		In a moment, we will continue to explore what I thought was a subject unique to this program, a discovery made virtually on this program.
		And in a sense, that still remains true.
		Certainly, you haven't heard about it elsewhere, although I think shortly you're going to be hearing about it everywhere.
		This shadow person controversy.
		It's exploding in our faces.
		The calls, the emails, they are relentless.
		So I've got a guest.
		Dr. Morgan Spence, who says that she has been researching this for 11 years.
		You may recall a caller in this last hour who thought it had something to do with women, too.
		So maybe she's just the right person to comment on all this.
		I don't know.
		That's coming next.
unidentified		That's coming next.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 31, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coast to Coast AM Now, the story that simply will not go away, in fact keeps increasing actually in its ferocity, in terms of having legs and sticking around, something really is happening.
		A lot of people, of course, are not going to believe it until Peter Jennings or Miss Brokar or somebody says it.
		But we know it's true here, don't we?
		The Shadow Beings.
		Dr. Morgan Spence was born in the northwest U.S., raised by her Australian father and Irish mother, both of whom were raised in South Wales, then later immigrated to the U.S. Dr. Spence's father disappeared under mysterious circumstances in 1985 and has never been seen since.
		She received her PhD in paranormal research from the International Research Academy, has dedicated her life to gaining a better understanding of paranormal phenomena, what it means to us, our society, and our existence.
		She currently resides near Vancouver Island in Canada.
		She has a website up about it's shadowbeeings.com, which you can get to through my website.
		We've got a link there.
		And she wrote me an email and said, Art, I've been studying these beings for 11 years.
		A subject that I'm relatively new to.
		How long have we been talking about this?
		A couple of months, maybe?
		And she's been looking at it for 11 years.
		Here she is.
		Dr. Spence, welcome.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Art.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Can you hear me all right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear you fine, sure.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Great.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Thank you so much for having me on the show tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're very welcome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You came out of nowhere.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, and so did you, sort of, to me, a few weeks ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did that happen?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, I listened to you a few years ago, off and on, and always enjoyed your shows, but then a few weeks ago I was driving home from watching a movie, and on the way home I had this extreme...
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And someone was discussing time travel, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And there was something said about someone remembering that Nelson Mandela had died, and I remembered the same thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it sounds like we've got a couple of things we're going to be talking about tonight, then.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		And of course, this sort of, I was sitting on the floor for over an hour, just unable to move at that point, because it almost sort of put me into shock, realizing, you know, that someone else had realized this, and it sort of struck a chord, literally.
		And then what happened after that was that I reached the point where I had to listen to your show every night.
		So if I was on the Internet, I would listen.
		And, of course, my schedule is strange anyway.
		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you're writing a book right now with Dr. C.A. Reed, right?
		Yes.
		And this book is what?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, the book is basically a compilation of our research and my research primarily over the past 11 years.
		And Dr. Reed's contributions also offer some experiences with her research.
		And also, I would say her contribution is more about the logic of all of it and how to recognize that there's some flawed logic processes out there that people are using to try and explain them away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it appears to us with regard to these shadow beings, you know, as magic.
		It's like magic, after all.
		Beings that appear and disappear.
		That's magic to us.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, in my opinion, all magic is science that we don't yet understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Precisely.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		That we're not yet able to explain.
		And I believe that probably most people are hoping tonight that I'm going to give them one answer about what shadow people are and what causes them.
		And they'll probably be disappointed because it's really not that simple, like most things in life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'm sure not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you, perchance, hear the email that I read from the technical fellow in the first hour?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I did.
		And would you believe that that was something I tried to tell my father when I was about three years old?
		I tried to tell my father when I was three years old that I saw these shadow people, these shadow shapes.
		And I told him, I said, Daddy, I think that this has something to do with the television, because when the television turns off, there's sort of this thing that floats in the air, and I can see all these shapes, and sometimes they don't go away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And they're my friends.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And this sort of takes you back and makes you remember when you were a child.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they're my friends?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		Yes.
		You know, you've heard of children having imaginary friends.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And we assume that, oh, it's just their imagination.
		And the truth is, maybe it isn't their imagination.
		I can tell you that, to me, mine wasn't my imagination because I could actually see sort of a shape there.
		And as a child, you don't really know any better.
		You don't know much about the world yet, and you assume that this is normal.
		And then when you tell people about it, they say things like, oh, that's nice, dear.
		Or, well, someone has a wild imagination today, don't they?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And so what we do is we learn that, oh, we don't talk about these sorts of things.
		And then we sort of sublimate them and we no longer pay attention.
		Or if we do, we feel shame.
		And we sort of grow up with a sense that we're alone and we're isolated and we can't, you know, alienated from everyone else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then really it's a conditioning process to not see them.
		In other words, if it's a borderline thing anyway, and it has something to do with frequency, then once we're conditioned, it's nothing, dear.
		Great imagination, as you said, whatever it is, some sort of little subtle, hey dummy, it's not real type comment will cause you eventually to not see them.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
		And you know, it's quite interesting because psychiatry and psychology are, I believe, like many areas of science, rife with delusions.
		And the problem is that the delusional person is usually the so-called professional.
		There are many cases, numerous cases of people who had cancer and were in the early stages of Pencin, were sent to therapists because nothing could be found wrong with them.
		And three years later, it turns out that they did have cancer, but in the meantime, they were sort of brainwashed out of it and believed that they weren't sick and that it was in their mind.
		And what happens is you might go to a therapist because they can't find anything wrong with you, and they might tell you that, you know, there's nothing wrong with you and sort of condition you, and then suddenly you believe it, and they say, aha, you see, it was simply nothing more than it was in your mind and you had anxiety disorder or something like that.
		And the truth is, cancer's in your body ten years before typically it's diagnosed because it takes that long for one cancer cell that develops to split and divide and grow into a tumor.
		And so many of these people are sort of taught to ignore their symptoms.
		And I believe that's the real reason people aren't getting diagnosed with cancer soon enough because they're told it's in the minds.
		And our diagnosis processes are really sort of fragmented.
		They use a lot of flawed logic in order to get diagnoses.
		And so it's the same thing with this sort of phenomenon.
		People are sort of trained and brainwashed out of it.
		You can be brainwashed into believing that you're sick when you're not, certainly, but it also works the other way around.
		You can be sick and be brainwashed into believing that you're not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And it might make the symptoms go away for a while, but generally they return in with a vengeance when they do return.
unidentified		Of course.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And so it's the same way with the shadow people phenomenon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well you saw them when you were young, so there is an obvious reason for your interest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When did you begin to actually investigate whatever in the heck these are?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, when I started college in the 90s, I was, of course, the International Research Academy is a unique academy in that it's geared towards extreme research, and it's unbelievable.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I could have never imagined the sort of training.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is an extreme subject.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have a question about it.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
		And so basically my theme throughout my education was that this was one of the main areas I studied, the paranormal in general.
		But I couldn't help but notice the connection between the shadow people phenomenon and everything else, including out-of-body experiences, near-death experiences, also including extraterrestrial encounters and abductions and whatnot.
		So it really does, there seems to be a connection, and yet I think it's a mistake to assume that Right, that it's any one thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but there are certain commonalities that I'm beginning to discern.
		One of them would seem to be, from the thousands of letters that I've had, it seems as though these creatures are accustomed to seeing us and accustomed to do whatever they do understanding our presence.
		They are certainly aware of our presence, but on occasion when they're seen full on by people, they act shocked, surprised, and run like hell.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course.
		Now, imagine, Art, for a moment, that you are one of these beings and you've been around forever and you've spent God knows how many years observing humans and watching them and sort of being entertained by them maybe, and suddenly they can see you.
		Oh my god, what's happening?
		Something's changed here.
		Something's, this isn't right.
		And so they run.
		That's their first response.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To a shadow being, if these theories are correct, we must be almost barely moving monoliths.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, we must be going at a very slow rate compared to them, usually.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's possible.
		That's something that's really difficult to determine because we don't know enough about vibration and frequencies of this sort of energy.
		You know, for example, thought, we think we've been able to track thought by watching the brain light up when it's connected to wiring and doing an EEG, or if we watch the brain under an MRI.
		And the truth of the matter may be that what we're seeing is evidence that thought has occurred in the brain, but that it may have actually occurred a split second or a sub-nanosecond before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The fact that these beings are surprised indicates they're operating with an intelligence, roughly as we understand it, in some ways, at least.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Oh, absolutely, but they're not just sort of...
		Exactly, exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that says some things to us, at least.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it does say something to us.
		We don't necessarily know what, but something significant, I would say.
		And also there's another analogy that could be used.
		Imagine that you have a one-way mirror.
		I believe I get confused which one is a one-way, which is a two-way, but a mirror where one person looks in it and sees themselves, and you're on the other side, and you see them, but they don't see you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's one-way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, one way.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Two-way?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I think it's two-way.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, I think it's a two-way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, whatever it is, they know what we're talking about.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And if you're on the other side observing someone, you know, like in a police interrogation room, and you're assuming that they can't see you, and so you feel rather safe.
unidentified		Correct.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And even if the other person on the other side isn't really a danger to you, if suddenly they can see you, you suddenly feel vulnerable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you what else will do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If they get up from their chair and go on the window and say, hey, you in there.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Exactly, exactly.
		It's just sort of a, you know, thinking that you're undetected and then realizing that you are detected is unnerving.
		That's just a normal response of any sort of being, I would think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but if so many, here's another one for you.
		If all across the country and other parts of the world, I'm getting email and letters from people who are seeing these beings now, who haven't seen them before, or have just begun to see them as you did early in life, this is a relatively new phenomenon.
		In other words, for sure, and this wasn't going on 100 years ago.
		It wasn't going on 200 years ago.
		It would have been written about.
		Maybe the beings were there, but what I'm saying is the new aspect of the phenomena is that we're beginning to see them in large numbers, I might add.
		And so something is driving that.
		Any thoughts on what?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, I do believe it has to do with electromagnetic energy and other types of energies.
		And there's so much of it.
		One of the things that I've learned from speaking to many different people and doing interviews with them is that the more electronic gadgets they have in their homes, and of course lasers as well, but not just lasers.
		It could be television, radio, any number of things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, if that's it, I should be seeing armies of them.
		I have more electronics and microwaves flying around here than the man in the moon.
		And I haven't seen one shadow being yet.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, my question would be, are the windows and doors open frequently in that dwelling?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, they're not.
		Well, we open windows for fresh air here in the desert at night in the summer.
		Let me qualify what I said.
		Here's how all of this began.
		And I actually have seen something in my peripheral vision.
		In fact, when I began the program Dreamland many years ago, I wrote an intro to Dreamland which said, things seen from the corner of your eye in a flash, or something like that.
		I'm paraphrasing what I said, but something like that.
		Things seen just at the very edge of vision in your peripheral vision.
		Now, I've seen things move like that, but I have never seen anything dead on.
		What I would describe as a being.
		Just sort of a quick movement out of the corner of my eye.
		That I've seen.
unidentified		Sure.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's something to consider.
		You're aware as a technical person what occurs when there's a certain sort of light.
		Like if you're looking up at the night sky, there are certain star systems or arrangements of stars that can only be seen out of peripheral vision.
unidentified		Right.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And this is because they're very dim, or sometimes maybe there's interference in the line of vision or whatnot.
		There are many things that we know are real that we frequently only see out of our peripheral vision.
		And it seems to have to do with brightness.
		Well, with this, sort of all bets are off because we don't know exactly what we're dealing with, whether it's light or radiation or electromagnetic fields.
		But it seems to be that somehow the volume gets turned up.
		And suddenly, instead of only seeing them out of the corner of your eye, you can see them dead on because they seem to gain in strength.
		And I believe that there are a lot of scientists out there who are skeptics and who are saying, well, if you see things out of the corner of your eye, it's simply your imagination.
		And I have an example of that.
		When I was living in an old house a few years ago, I remember that I would see something out of the corner of my eye and it was moving very quickly.
		And I thought, oh, it's just my imagination, it's an old house and whatnot.
		And then suddenly I began to realize that it made a little noise, a little pit-patter.
		And I thought, I wonder if I have a mouse.
		And I never could see this mouse, but I actually bought a glue trap, and I put that in the kitchen.
		And the next day, there was this mouse there.
		So I freed it and let it go outside.
		But it was indeed a mouse.
		And so this was a very real thing that I was seeing.
		But had I not put the trap out, I probably would have never known.
		I would have continued to think that it was something I was seeing out of the corner of my eye that was my imagination.
		And so it's the same thing with shadow people.
		Just because it's out of the corner of your eye, just because you can't see it dead on, doesn't mean it's not there.
		Because of course, the parallel is that we have many things that we know are real that we still can only see out of our peripheral vision.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, when I wrote those words that really went to the core of what the program was to be about, I think I instinctually understood that I was seeing some real phenomena, something I really couldn't identify, but I felt strongly enough about it to put it to words.
		Even then, that was years ago.
		So I guess I'm not really surprised about this.
		What I do want to know, and you're going to disappoint me for sure, is I want to know what these beings are.
		They must be all around us.
		must be sharing the world with us they must have their own I'm at a loss for words.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have quite a few pieces of information that may at least shed some light on it for you.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I believe that, first of all, if you want to look at what these things are or are not, or a variety of things that they may be, let's first look at what they probably are not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'll tell you what.
		Hold that thought, what they are not, and we'll break here at the bottom of the hour.
		Dr. Spence, Dr. Morgan Spence is with us.
		We're talking about shadow people.
		It's not exactly a really big field of study in general.
		It's something new and growing and real.
		The rest of the paranormal community is going to be catching on very shortly because the magnitude of responses I've had has been beyond any other subject we've talked about.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		This is Premier Networks.
		That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
		Sexy music
		Sexy music *Sexy
		music* Sexy music
		I can feel it calling in the air tonight.
		Oh, love.
		Yeah, I'm in a way for a long time.
		Somewhere in time with Art Bell continues courtesy of Preneir Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not only is it in the air, but even if you've never seen one of these beings, I'm beginning to conclude the evidence is all around us.
		They are here.
		They're around you right now.
		You just can't see them.
		Have you ever felt the back of your neck sort of stand straight up, all the hair on it stands straight up, bristling because you know something's there?
		Or have you seen one of these things yourself?
		Either way, what we're talking about are what are called shadow people.
		We'll get right back to it.
unidentified		I was there and I saw what you did.
		I saw it with my own device.
		It's deep, quite hot and quick.
		Another way to think.
		It's all been a passion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is so right on, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right on target.
unidentified		Right on target.
unidentified		Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Art Bell All right, Keith has done it along with ZZ Top's Vomit Comet ride, which I am going to do.
		I see it in my future.
		Along with that comes now another Shadow Being Story at the top of what's new.
		That's what it says, another Shadow Being Story.
		It is, in fact, a copy of the email that I read in the first hour.
		I would suggest that as many of you who think you know what you're doing as possible read that and render an opinion to me on what you think with regard to the phenomena.
		I think the man may have it nailed down, or at least to some degree.
		Certainly the reason we're beginning to see these beings in such large numbers.
		In the meantime, let's go back now to my guest, Dr. Morgan Spence, and discuss what they're not.
		You were beginning to say that they are not certain things based on what we know so far.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, I believe they're probably not certain things.
		First, let me qualify everything and say that my favorite three words are I don't know, because I believe the moment we begin to believe we know something, that's the moment when we begin to be wrong.
		And with linear logic, which is quite limited in many ways, frequently what will happen is we'll be right on except for one tiny detail, and then the rest of the direction of our linear logic, the line of our linear logic, is completely off track.
		And it just gets worse and worse as you go along.
		That's why actually my colleague Dr. Reed, who co-wrote the book with me, which by the way is called Shadow Beings, Reality Unveiled, she developed a method of logic that she calls spherical logic, which makes more sense to me because we live in a spherical world and it doesn't make much sense to try to completely apply, inflict linear logic on a spherical world.
		you're going to miss a lot of the aspects.
		And yet, linear logic can be necessary in order to understand pieces of a puzzle.
		But if you're not able to...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if you want to talk about spherical logic, you're going to have to explain to us what it is.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, spherical logic basically is that instead of following point A to point B to point C, and then stopping when you think you've got it figured out, you continue on and you go around a 360 degree circle until you get back to your original point of starting.
		And then you take it from there and go three-dimensional with it.
		And you look at as many other things as seriously as you would of this one point.
		So basically, you know, we have, for example, I've encountered physicians who are convinced that this is sort of a chemical thing in the brain.
		And because they've been able to reproduce these sorts of phenomenon in the patient by giving them certain chemicals, they've determined that this must be what's really causing this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		DMT, for example.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Exactly, exactly.
		That's a huge theory that I believe is going to continue to develop in the medical world.
		Well, first of all...
		You know, I believe I received an email from him and I am interested in his information because even if it doesn't completely explain things, it certainly will provide some insight into what may allow us to see these beings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I do think that it is extremely flawed logic to assume that because we've figured out certain aspects of the experience that we now understand what causes it.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Because, you know, you can give someone a chemical injection and cause them to feel very happy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's Dr. Rick Strassman, by the way.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Oh, all right.
		Yes, that's right.
		I do believe I did receive an email from him.
		But you know, you can give an injection of some chemical to someone and convince them, you know, that they become convinced that they're happy and they perceive that they're happy and so forth therefore they are happy for the moment, even if their mother just died and the dog just threw up on the new shoes, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		So that doesn't necessarily mean that we've explained what causes people to feel emotions because certainly we feel emotions when there's a real reason to feel emotions from the outside in rather than just from the inside out.
		So I believe what happens is because sometimes we've, you know, maybe someone has spent 12 years educating themselves medically and they now have this idea that it's a medical thing and everything can be explained in terms of medicine.
		And so therefore they follow a linealogic line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, just because, put simply, just because they can reproduce it with chemicals or electrical stimulation doesn't negate the possibility that it's absolutely real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're simply duplicating it, that's all.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, I'm with you there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So let's circle back now to what they are not.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, first of all, I want to touch on demons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Demons.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		I don't claim to know that demons do not exist for certain, but I am quite sure that our...
		Well, demon meaning, you know, in the biblical sense of evil spirit or something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Representative of the forked one.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		I believe, first of all, that demons are a very primitive concept, you know, a man-made creation by many people's definition of what a demon is.
		And even though they may exist, this doesn't mean that that explains everything that frightens us.
		It seems that we have developed this automatic reaction that if it frightens me and I don't like it, it's a demon.
		And this is oversimplified thinking.
		I have a primitive reaction.
		I'm extremely nervous doing any sort of public speaking, as is my research partner.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're doing quite well under the circumstances.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
		But if I were to go with my initial instinct, it would be fight or flight.
		Well, I can't very well fight you or the phone, which is...
		Right, and run away.
unidentified		But I'm not going to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We talked about her earlier.
		She's not really wild at all about public speaking, folks.
		That's the zeal.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Right, exactly.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And so I'm definitely convinced that just because something is our natural reaction doesn't mean that it's something that serves us in today's society.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you don't think they're demons?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
		I believe maybe some of them could be.
		But again, I try to stay away from absolutes because that's when you start to confuse yourself and maybe even get a little neurotic.
		But I don't believe that all of them are demons, and I'm not sure that even a significant percentage of them are demons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If I read between your voice, you're probably unconvinced there really are even demons, as in the biblical sense?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		I probably not in a literal sense that it's been presented through the religious texts.
		Incidentally, I'm a spiritual person, but I am not religious.
		And I also believe that what happens is that ideas get presented and they get sort of distorted because people take them too literally.
		And even the religious texts tell people to use discernment, and very few people actually do.
		And so they should take a page out of their own book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not demons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about ghosts?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, it depends on your definition of a ghost.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		If you believe that ghosts is like Casper, the friendly ghost, or a poltergeist, like on a movie, I'll give you my definition of ghost.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My definition of ghost is that which was previously human, which has physically died, and whose spirit or soul, depending on how you want to think about it, remains for some reason on Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's my definition of ghost.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I absolutely believe that is a distinct possibility, strongly, because of the fact that, as I said before, we only think we've been able to identify thought energy.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		We really can only identify evidence of thought.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So are you agreeing with my definition, or are you saying you think these shadow people may in fact be ghosts?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		That would be a certain percentage of the occurrences.
		In other words, some may be demons, some may be ghosts, for lack of a better word, what I call soul energy that is no longer attached to or soul body body.
		Also, there could be ghosts.
		We need to expand.
		We have very narrow definitions of things as humans.
		We need to expand, I believe, the ghosts to include ghosts of other beings.
		Because certainly, I don't believe that humans are the only beings that have souls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, by the way, may I add that we've had photographs of ghost cats and ghost dogs, or shadow dogs and shadow cats, depending on what you want to call them.
		Maybe it's going to be interchangeable by the time the night is over.
		I don't know.
		But we've had many reports of shadow animals.
		Now, that's pretty interesting since biblically they don't exactly have souls.
		Not supposed to anyway, right?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Right, exactly.
		And that's why I don't place too much value on previous belief systems.
		I think that we need to gain some wisdom to go along with our knowledge and recognize that things do indeed change in the physical world anyway, and that indeed they may change in what I call the light energy world.
		The energy of a soul, I believe, when, and I do believe it's a matter of when, not if, we are able to identify soul energy and measure it and detect its existence, we will find that it is so light and travels so quickly that it is just probably unfathomable by human brains.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are many people who believe that when you die, your energy simply switches frequencies, more or less, to put it one way, that you switch frequencies, and that you probably go into a range of frequencies that normal human beings under normal conditions would never see, would never be aware of.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I would agree with that.
		Absolutely.
		And I would also add that there are people who believe that there's no such thing as slow energy.
		And I actually believe that they're basically deluding themselves because they're frightened of it or maybe they're just a little too comfortable with feeling that they have an understanding of everything that exists because frankly we don't want to believe that we don't understand anything that exists because that leaves us sort of clueless and our egos don't like that.
		That's right.
		And when it comes to frequencies, let's talk about frequencies for a moment.
		Frequencies are things, just like I believe thoughts are things.
		And frequencies don't usually just disappear, especially not when they're in an exact form that's so strong and that has been vibrating at a certain frequency for a long time.
		Especially you know as well as I do that when you broadcast something, it goes out and continues on and on and on.
		And certainly it may fade, it may get weaker and weaker, but perhaps at some point it dissipates.
		I'm not an expert on those sort of things, but I do know that frequencies tend to go on much longer than we're able to hear them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, indeed.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		We're hearing this and we assume that it's not out there anymore, that it's gone.
		But most people who are aware of the science aspects of broadcast systems are aware that it continues on.
		So this is a very important point because it does point to the probability that there is such a thing as a so and that it does sort of maintain some sense of its original form.
		And if that is so, it stands to reason that it's around us, all around us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, well, how about this theory, Doctor?
		That there really is, in the classic sense of up there and down there, no heaven and hell.
		There are simply different frequencies, and they occupy the same space, running radically different from each other.
		We can see in three dimensions.
		I understand some animals in only two.
		Dr. Kaku, a brilliant man who comes on my program, talks about standing above a pond and looking down at fish.
		And the fish, of course, are only seeing in two dimensions.
		But he wonders about reaching down and plucking that fish out of the water into the air, and suddenly that fish is in, for at least a short time until it gags and dies, in three dimensions.
		So why could we not occasionally get a glimpse of what really is another dimension as represented by another frequency?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		And, you know, it's really quite absurd to assume that we couldn't.
		You know, it only follows by even linear logic that we should be able to.
		And the truth is, scientists, I'm sure you're probably aware if you've spoken to Dr. Kaku, that scientists believe they have uncovered 11 different dimensions already.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And given that fact, 11 dimensions, that's quite a few more than three.
		And I'm not a math expert, but I do know that much.
		And my theory, and I don't know that I have a lot to back it up yet, but my theory is that however many dimensions there are, they probably exist concurrently and on top of one another.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you imagine it would be true that as we can see in three dimensions, somebody living in a fourth dimension would be able to see in four dimensions?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And they might not see things the way we do, but they would certainly be able to detect certain energies.
		I believe that there would probably be a color or a vibration or some sort of sensory input that we don't even have words for because we've never encountered it, that they would be able to perceive.
		And, you know, then you're getting into an area of who knows how many dimensions they see and who knows how you get into the various dimensions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, but you know, one night we did a show on Shadow People and we had people all night long send in drawings of what they had seen.
		And I hope that you've been on my website and I've seen some.
		Oh, you've seen them.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I've looked at all of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is obvious commonalities, big time, in what they've seen, but all the way up to what seem to be demons and awful things that you would not really, you know, if you die, I mean, most of us would not want to imagine that we would pass into a world with beings, sharing the world with beings that look like that list that we saw there.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Well, and I don't know that literally it's heaven and hell, but I do believe that it's possibly your energy vibration and whatever it's aligned with is where you're going to be attracted to, what's going to attract your energy and suck it in.
		You know, you could compare it to a black hole.
		If you have energy that's sort of nearby one black hole, you're going to get sucked into that one.
		And if your energy vibrates at a different level, perhaps, you might get sucked into a different one.
		And so it's quite interesting because perhaps it could almost approach resembling heaven and hell, at least in a very general sense, not necessarily in the literal human sense, the fairytale sense that we've sort of bought into.
		But certainly I believe that's a possibility.
		I also believe that these beings, for whatever reason, are attracted to strong emotion.
		And I believe another one of your callers said the same thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, many people have said the following.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That yes, they're attracted to strong emotion, particularly appearing to feed on fear.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Feed on fear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they can certainly, if they can be seen, they can produce lots of fear, so it's a real feast.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Right, exactly.
		Well, you know, if you consider them psychic vampires, so to speak, where they actually suck all of the energy out of the room or they suck your, they need the energy.
		Remember that fear is nothing more than a vibration that you create, that your brain is firing a lot of, you know, neurotransmitters and creating this reaction.
		And therefore, fear is really a certain type of energy vibration.
		And it's, I believe, probably a very strong vibration.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you, if I were to see one of these things straight on, I'd generate enough fear to light up half of California and keep the rolling blackouts from occurring.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would really generate a lot of fear.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably close to heart attack, Bill.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		If you haven't seen it before, of course.
		And who knows whether it's some sort of feature of your body or your brain or your eyes, or it could be hormone levels.
		You know, hormones, we think of sex hormones when we think of hormones.
		There are many different types of hormones, neuro hormones and so on.
		And it could quite likely have to do with the fact that certain hormone reactions allow you to see certain things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I hate to bring this up, but at the end of my first hour, there was a fellow who called who said he thought women had something to do with shadow beings.
		Now, he was only 19.
		I said, well, for you, women have to do with everything.
		To which he acknowledged, by the way.
		But the fact of the matter is, maybe he wasn't that far off, because who has more raging hormones more frequently than anybody else on the planet?
		Answer?
		Women.
		Right?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're not disagreeing with him, correct?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I'm not disagreeing with him at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you little shadow person maker, you.
		All right, hold it right there.
		Dr. Morgan Spence is my guest.
		We're talking.
		We're talking about shadow people.
		Why?
		Because it's a reality.
		I'm becoming convinced.
		It's absolutely real.
		Only question is, and it's a big one.
		What are they and what do they want?
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		More Somewhere in Time coming out.
		More Somewhere in Time coming out.
		I see your baby.
		I see your baby.
		I see your baby.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Riders on the storm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Riders on the storm.
unidentified		Into this house we're born.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Into this world we're thrown.
unidentified		Like a dog without a bone.
		We're out of bone.
		Riders on the storm.
		There's a killer on the road.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		His brave is worming like a toad.
unidentified		Take a look out of the day.
		Let your children play.
		If you give this man a ride, sweet everybody will die.
		Kill her on the road.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 31, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you suppose the implications are for human beings if the veil drops?
		If all the pretense is suddenly gone and the majority of people begin to see the other side as the other side can see us?
		Oh, now that would change a few things, wouldn't it?
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		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 31, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back now to Dr. Spence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, welcome back.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We were talking about hormones, and we were talking about women with respect to shadow beings.
		Here's the only problem that I've got with this.
		Certainly, poltergeist activity and a lot of interesting paranormal type activity takes place around young teenage females.
		We know that's true.
		However, what I can't put together, if in a way, let's say that your hormones were running wild and you generated some sort of phenomena nearby.
		The problem that I have is that this phenomena appears to be intelligent in that it's got this obvious, oh my god, you saw me, I'm taking off.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I need to qualify something.
		I misunderstood.
		I thought this person had said that women were experiencing them more because of hormone.
unidentified		No, no, I don't think that women create these things.
unidentified		I want to clear that up.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		That's completely irrational as far as I'm concerned.
unidentified		Well, I know, but he wanted to take a shot, and he did, so he said...
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Women have been blamed for the origination of all sin, so why not, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you were the one that held out the apple there.
unidentified		Take a bite of this.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		No one forced you to take the bite, did they?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		Well, no, not exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, I'm not sure we want to go down this road.
unidentified		No, we don't.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		But what I do think is interesting is that women may be more likely to experience the phenomenon through something to do with hormones.
		And it's interesting that women have demonstrated and proven, well, they call it intuition.
		I don't like the word intuition because it implies something magical in a lot of people's minds.
		I like to use the word or the phrase instinctive intelligence.
		And women seem to have an instinctive intelligence when it comes to their children, whether those children are naturally theirs or whether they're adopted children.
		They seem to have some ability to have this.
		And it may be because of the hormones.
		And yet, it doesn't mean that it's the hormones that's causing the phenomenon.
		That's sort of backwards thinking, I believe.
		And that's it also it wouldn't explain the males that have this experience, although males do have many of the same hormones we have as women.
		It's just that they don't necessarily have them quite as strong most of the time.
		But then even in the homosexual community, you see people who have different amounts of hormones given their physical sex that you would expect them to have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And so this is a naturally occurring phenomenon.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And so I do believe that it is connected to hormones as well as how often and intensely it's experienced, but not necessarily having anything to do with the manifestation of the phenomenon itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		When I began the hour, I said, what if whatever is causing this, whether it's a shift in frequencies, modern electronics beginning to change the frequency rate that we see as suggested by that incredibly good letter that's now up on my website, by the way?
		Read it, folks.
		You know, it's interesting to sort of roll over in your mind, perhaps with the kind of thinking you've described earlier, what would happen if this trend continues until eventually whatever veil has been up is gone.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know what's interesting, I think that it's going to happen gradually only simply because we're increasing our electromagnetic fields gradually.
		You know, the energy we're using more and more of is happening gradually.
		And, you know, interestingly now with our power problems, you may actually see the phenomenon slow down a bit because people are trying to use less electricity.
		That will be an interesting thing to track.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And maybe a difficult thing to track, but interesting nonetheless.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And then it's important to understand that I don't think it's going to happen all at once, you know, because I think it's quickening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then there's this quickening.
		The societal impact then will be sort of the slowly boiling frog.
		We will hardly notice it.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Sure, exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I don't know.
		At some point, there's going to be a realization that enough people are seeing these things and telling these stories, and more and more is happening more and more.
		And if it does go that way, since we don't fully really understand what the force is behind this, getting us to see these things, the letter is a pretty good hint.
		It's just a really good guess, I think, a really good shout out.
		But we don't know.
		We really don't know.
		So it could be something regarding the Earth's frequency itself, and we're just sort of along for the ride.
		I mean, there are a lot of answers to what could be causing this and how quickly it's going to happen.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		There could be many things, anything from solar flares, which happen every 11 years, to any sort of change, you know, a change in polarity, the polar shifts and whatnot.
		It could be anything.
		And I actually believe it's a variety of things.
		And I don't believe we will ever be able to identify every single one of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then we can't exactly know how quickly it's going to increase.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And I feel that this is why it's so important that we begin to talk about it from a psychological perspective even.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what we're doing.
		So you tell me, if there was a fairly rapid realization that, by God, we're sharing this planet with things that until now we haven't seen, but now we're beginning to see, if that actually became realized publicly, how do you think it would change things?
		Institutions, science, religion, on and on, everything?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		It would turn everything on its ear, like has already happened many times through history.
		You know, churches have gotten actually very upset with astronomers as they've discovered things and uncovered things, and actually many have been threatened with death and tortured in distant past in order to try and keep things secret so that things aren't proven wrong.
		And I think that we'll probably continue to see something of that, but it's going to be difficult for those sorts of people to continue to get away with that sort of behavior because too many of us are aware of the reality.
		And I believe that it's like most things with our existence, is that we live in denial.
		And so I also think perhaps that there's a protection built in through that denial that we won't, even when we know for 100% true fact that this is so, I don't believe we're all going to admit it to ourselves at the same time.
		So I don't necessarily Think we're all going to have the realization, at least all on the same level at the same time, which may help in some respects.
		So maybe it is a good thing to have a little bit of denial.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, stay close to the phone for me.
		Now, let's roll over again what we know.
		They recognize us.
		They move very quickly.
		They seem to disappear, to our eyes anyway.
		They disappear or just begin moving faster.
		What do you think?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not really sure there.
		I think it could be, it would depend on their vibration level.
		And I do believe that vibration has a lot to do with this.
		My main theory about the whole thing is if you were to glue two mirrors together back to back, and one person on one side could only see a reflection of themselves, and the other person on the other side only see their reflection, and then suddenly something happens, and the glue that you use to glue them together sort of begins to peel away or eat away at the metal that causes the reflection.
		Suddenly people are going to be able to see one another.
		And I believe that's what's happening.
		It's happening gradually.
		And I believe what's causing that is this energy, you know, ultra-energy level that we have floating around, for lack of a better term, in the atmosphere.
		And I believe it is eating away at some of the whatever it is.
		I mean, we only just recently have begun to realize that there's dark matter in between atoms.
		And in schools, it's still taught today that there isn't anything there.
		So that gives you a clue to not only our denial of things, but of how long it takes people to even be made aware.
		I guarantee there are many teachers who aren't aware of this yet.
		And so I think that that's what's happening, is that it's sort of gradually peeling away.
		A doorway may be opening.
		And I know that sounds incredibly new age, and I hate sounding that way, but the truth is, I don't know how else to express it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nor do I. That's not too agey for me, a door opening, a veil dropping.
		These are just words meaning roughly what you just suggested.
		That's a very good analogy.
		know that metal sort of wearing away but but uh...
		get you know it that if it really was that then that you would think that I'm quite puzzled by it all and troubled by it all too because I don't want to think that when I die that's what I'm going to be.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think that...
		It could be that they choose to be in that form or that it's sort of an entertainment.
		You know, if you were a movie screen and all you saw all day were people that come in and watch the movies, and you were told that when you die, you were going to become a person, you might say, I don't want to be a person.
		All they do is they sit and they watch movies all day.
		But they do a lot of other things, too.
		You just don't see that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe then maybe we are entertainment for them.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I believe it's possible.
		I believe that's also...
		And I believe they know what we respond to the strongest.
		So that if you are a person who's very fear-driven, they're going to manifest and sort of take advantage of your fear so that you produce more fear.
		And that sort of is fun.
		And it's interesting because we're addicted to fear ourselves.
		We're sort of psychic vampires ourselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And why do you think we like scary movies?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		We wet our pants.
		We pay so much money to sit there and almost wet our pants.
		And it's ridiculous.
		And yet that's what we do.
		It's because we are literally, at least physically, addicted to the endorphins that we get from these sort of experiences.
		And at the same time, it doesn't mean that it's only a physical experience.
		I believe that the physical experience sort of enhances the spiritual experience.
		And I believe that's probably why we choose to inhabit bodies.
		We basically wear a body like we're wearing clothes.
		And when we take our body off, certainly we're no longer confined.
		And I believe we're incredibly light and able to move and probably able to move through dimensions in a way that we can't do when we're in a body because the physical sort of serves as a wall.
		It blocks us.
		And of course with regard to out-of-body experiences, there was a woman who called in on your show last night and was describing a sensation she would feel that exaltation.
		Yes, in the pulsing she talked about.
		I have experienced this myself and I believe it is a very natural phenomenon.
		I don't know that it's something that medicine or science has yet understood in a way that they can explain, but I suspect that what may happen is the brain is sort of, well, we know that the brain goes to sleep, but certain parts of the brain stay active.
		And I believe there's sort of a vibration that occurs in the brain that allows the soul energy to sort of loosen the grip.
		It loosens the grip, so to speak.
		And that's where we get that feeling of lightness and floating.
		And on some level, the part of the brain that is still awake and alert, which I believe it's the primal brain, actually, that stays awake and alert at all times.
		That's why you wake up when you hear a loud noise, because there's still input getting in there.
		And when you're floating, you're also sending, I believe there's a two-way communication between the soul and the body.
		And this feeling that you have, that the spirit experiences, sort of gets transmitted back to the brain.
		And so the brain records and remembers this experience.
		And so, and even when people wake up, that's why I believe this woman remembers this and why I remember it, because I wake up in the middle of it.
		And this is at the point where, you know, science knows for a fact that when you go to sleep in certain sleep stages, your body is actually paralyzed.
		You can't move.
		And that's actually a quite normal occurrence, depending on what stage of sleep you're in.
		This is to protect you from getting up and running around the room and acting out your dream while you're sleeping.
		And some people have sleep disorders and they don't get paralyzed when they get into this sleep stage of REM and they do run around the room and sometimes they get violent and sometimes they do terrible things.
		And so it does seem to be that our spirit, our soul energy and our bodies have the energy grip loosened.
		And so I believe probably this is why it is true that we can travel interdimensionally while even we're sleeping, even though we're not dead.
		We don't even need to be clinically dead in order to be able to do this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you kind of an interesting story.
		I dream a lot because I have strange sleep habits.
		I will sleep a couple of times a day, sometimes more, sometimes less, but very broken up sleep.
		And so I have an opportunity, I guess, to remember more of my dreams because I'm waking up and my sleep state is lighter, not as good as it ought to be.
		Sure.
		One night, I don't know, about a year ago, I had a dream that I was in a fight.
		You know, you have a lot of fight dreams.
unidentified		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who knows what they mean?
		Dream interpreters, I suppose, could tell you.
		But it was a fight dream.
		And in this dream, I was punching this guy in the neck.
		And I woke up and my wife said, what the hell was that for?
		And I had punched her in the back of the head.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Ouch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ouch is right.
		And I said, oh my God, hun, I'm so sorry.
		I was in a dream.
		I was having a fight.
unidentified		Did I hit you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, she said.
		So, but that's the only time that I can think of that that's ever happened to me.
		Ever.
		You know, every other time a dream has been a dream has been a dream, and you wake up and you either remember it and it was profound or it was silly or whatever.
		But I've never had a, you know, coming out of a dream in the middle of a physical reaction was really freaky.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a common occurrence.
		You know, not necessarily for you.
		You say you've only experienced it once.
		But many people have the problem, sometimes only once or twice, and other times it becomes an ongoing problem.
		There are actually relationships, marriages that break up because of this, because yes, the person will get extremely violent, so violent that they're actually beating the person and hurting them and almost killing them.
		And then what happens after that is the wife says, why are you doing this to me?
		And he says, well, I'm sorry, I can't help it.
		I'm not aware I'm doing it.
		I was asleep.
		And she doesn't believe him.
		And then you go back and forth.
		And then it becomes a question of, well, do we arrest this person?
		Because he's beating his wife.
		But then he's sleeping.
		And it is a very real occurrence.
		Now, extreme cases like that aren't as common, but they do happen.
		And it is a sleep disorder.
		And when you have such a strange sleep habit that is sort of necessitated by your line of work and even by my line of work, what happens is your brain has to get into REM mode very quickly because you're sort of conditioned to do that.
		Because if you don't have your REM, your body cannot release the melatonin that's required in order to repair damage to your cell structures and whatnot.
		And so you've got to have this REM or you will literally die if only because you're not getting the melatonin and your cells are being damaged and left to sort of deteriorate.
		In fact, there's been quite a big connection made between that and cancer, that cancer cells actually are killed every night when you go to sleep or pre-pre-precancerous cells.
		We don't really, every cell is precancerous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh no, that makes all the logic in the world.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Sure, and then so you need that sleep and that's why you're jumping into REM so quickly and therefore you're not getting a chance to get into the paralyzation mode before it happens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're absolutely correct, Doctor.
		Hold on, we're at the bottom of the hour.
		And recently I've, for that reason, begun to modify my sleep a little bit.
		So I sleep at night now for a much longer period and just have a little nap during the day.
		Try it sometime.
		These hours are strange.
		All you need is the right job.
		Do an all-night radio show and then try to nap during the morning and the late day and do business during the middle of the day.
unidentified		Ain't easy.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 31, 2001.
		It's a living thing.
		It's a terrible thing to lose.
		It's a given thing.
		What a terrible thing to lose.
		What a terrible thing to lose.
		Be inside of the sand, the smell of the touch, the something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of the touch or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an alquin is deep in the ground.
		To wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up to tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing, to lie in the mellow and hear the grass sing, all these things in our memory soul.
		I'm leaving the sun to come to my life.
		Why, why would you go?
		I'll take your faith on this breath.
		Check my way.
		Why, why would you go?
		I'd take a free ride.
		I'd take a breath.
		I'd find a scene in my dreams.
		But I've been waiting for years.
		But my heart is doing my fears.
		I'm doing my life in all my life.
		But by now, by now, I'm in my world.
		Premier Network presents Art Bell somewhere in time tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 31st, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's really nothing quite like it.
		Do an all-night radio show and try to keep up with everything at the same time.
		And the way I used to do it up until about a month ago, maybe a little less, was to get off work at about 3 a.m.
		By about 6 a.m., I'd be tired enough, local time here, 6 in the morning, sun's just beginning to peak up at this time of the year.
		And I'm just about tired enough to go to sleep.
		And I would sleep for three hours until 9, get up, do business of the day with the network, whatever I had to do, and that's quite a bit.
		Email, tons of it, mail, you know, I don't know.
		And do that until about 4 in the afternoon, and then go to sleep for about three more hours till 7.
		And I found that to be ultimately very unsatisfactory, and so I've modified that last month so that now I just go ahead and I sleep until about noon, right around noon.
		And then I might lie down and just rest my eyes for about an hour before the program in the early evening.
		That's how I've modified it.
		And I found that helped a great deal.
		So I only get one disturbed sort of half sleep mess in the late afternoon when I close my eyes.
		And that's much better.
		And I'm having much sounder sleep.
		But I think all of that fits very nicely together with what she's been talking about with regard to sleep.
		Dead right, I'm sure of it.
unidentified		Dead right, I'm sure of it.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 31, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coast to Coast AM Once again, my guest, Dr. Morgan Spence.
		Dr. Spence, welcome back.
		I want to lead you.
		Here's what I want to do.
		In this half hour, I want to lead you away from the shadow beings for another subject briefly.
		And then at the top of the hour, if you're able to stick around, I'd like to take some calls.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I was going to ask you if we can't stay on longer.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I don't want to end this anytime soon, if possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's possible.
		All right.
		Here we go.
		I want to talk to you.
		You mentioned it earlier, and I said we would come back to it.
		Another thing that we've really been heavily thinking about and considering on this program are, I guess, you could say, time disturbances.
		In other words, there will eventually be time travel.
		I think most people believe that.
		If there will, then there are time travelers.
		And if there are time travelers, then if they're able to physically manifest in any way in time, they could change things.
		And you mentioned that you sort of sat up straight when we started talking about people with memories of the way things may have been.
		In other words, people have these memories of things that don't appear to have turned out the way they are in our present timeline.
		Kind of vague memories, but nagging strong memories when they hear somebody else say it.
		Like Nelson Mandela died in jail, did not become free and come to lead South Africa and all the rest of that.
		That it happened a whole different way.
		And that might be the way it is if somebody's tampering with time.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So pick a place and start.
		Maybe what you believe about time, whether you think that could be going on, is going on.
		And really that would mean, if it were true, that at any moment reality, like throwing a switch for every being on the planet, would change.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think you're close, but I think that there are some things that we should probably look at here and qualify.
		First of all, let's look at the fact about time from a scientific perspective.
		With what cosmologists and physicists currently know, it doesn't look like time travel as far as the concept of...
		We're saying, okay, well, the past is back there, the present is here, and the future is over there.
		As if it's a line, a straight line.
		I believe that time is a sphere.
		I believe that one theory is that time, past, present, and future exists all at once, and that it's all still.
		That the only thing that makes us experience time is our movement and our awareness as we move through it.
		In other words, we're sort of walking a path, if you will.
		And when you set out on a journey, for example, you might look at a map, and certainly for you, your reality is that when you travel a certain route, that's your reality.
		And as far as you're concerned, that's the only route that exists, because that's the one you're on.
		You may be able to look at the map and recognize that there are other roads and other ways you could get there, but certainly your reality is that you're traveling down this one.
unidentified		Right.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		That doesn't mean that the other ones magically disappear while you're on this one path.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, but I realize that.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Well, let's say for instance, suddenly you get lost.
		You take a wrong turn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And suddenly now you're going in a completely different direction.
		You don't recognize anything.
		Things seem strange.
		Something seems off.
		You may not even realize you've gotten off the wrong turn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Usually it's the wise swap.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course, right.
		That's okay.
		We can handle it.
		We're mature.
		We can handle the blame.
unidentified		It's wrong.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		But truthfully, and you know, actually the hormones do play a role there, and I can tell you some stories about Dr. Reed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Looks like way off where we shouldn't be.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		But the truth is that definitely when we get lost sometimes, we're not aware of it, are we?
		It takes a long time, especially for men.
		Here's yours.
		the men, they don't recognize that they're lost, so they don't want to admit it, and so they don't ask for directions, and they tend to be lost for a lot longer than some women.
		Of course, it's...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		you don't want to appear to be lost but if i did it It's not just a man thing.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		I believe that, and again, I think we shouldn't assign values to the sexes.
		I think that some sexes cross over and have different attributes from what's considered to be something from the other sex.
		You know, it's not an either-or situation.
		But I do believe that sometimes what happens is very similar to that scenario, is that we have a certain vibration that keeps us on a certain plane or in a certain dimension, and we're traveling on this journey.
		But what can happen, and it could be anything from energy disturbances, time disturbances, vibration disturbances, who knows, that could suddenly sort of throw our awareness or something over to a parallel universe, if you will, that would be contained within the same sphere that the rest of the timelines are contained in.
		In other words, the rest of the universes are contained in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, try this out.
		Zach from Citrus Heights says, hey, what if these shadow people are actually time travelers from the future and are in effect cloaking themselves from us because they don't want us to change something in this timeline?
		Hey, not a bad guess in a lot of ways.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, I believe half of that is true.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I believe that many of the shadow people are time travelers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And I do, and I will explain more about that later when we hopefully will get a chance to talk a little bit about extraterrestrials.
		But I do believe that some of these shadow beings are actually time travelers, even if they're unwilling time travelers.
		That's a possibility as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think there's evidence that these beings or time travelers or whatever they are can manifest physical change?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if there's evidence, but I do suspect that it's possible, strongly.
		I think when you get to evidence, it comes down to really some people see evidence as one thing and some see it as another.
		But I do believe that it is possible and quite likely.
		If I had to bet my life, I'd bet that, yes, it is possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you imagine the nature of time to include the possibility that something changed in the past would either create a whole new timeline or would affect this present timeline instantly?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		No, I do not believe that time is linear.
		I believe that, again, it's spherical or rather that it doesn't follow sort of a linear line.
		I believe what would happen is, much like I believe Dr. Kaku states, that what would happen is that the energy or the radiation would be so powerful that it would create a new universe, or possibly a new parallel universe, or some new dimension, or something of that nature.
		I think we're talking about things we don't have definitions or even words for, so it's difficult for me to sound intelligent when I'm describing what I believe would happen.
		But I do believe that if these beings have come back to do something, or if they're here for whatever reason, they may affect the immediate surroundings, but that that may be because our awareness shifts back to another parallel universe.
		I sort of believe that, here's sort of a far-fetched theory, one that I may not be qualified to really make, but I believe that the parts of the brain that we believe we don't use actually may be some sort of connection or link with all of these other parallel universes that I believe exist.
unidentified		Oh, yes.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And what may be happening is, see, I look at it this way, that this brain in this parallel universe is aware of what's happening here because it's firing a certain way and it's responding to the environment here in this dimension or in this parallel universe.
		But if there's a vibrational disturbance or some sort of extreme shift in, it could be hormones or neurotransmitters or any sort of thing of that nature, it could throw your energy awareness or soul energy awareness or what have you over to the other parallel universe even for a split second and then you might come back.
		And so I frequently find myself feeling that something has just shifted and I'm not sure quite what it is or I have sort of a memory lapse for just a a moment or I might go into a fugue state where I do things and I seem to be aware of them when I'm doing them but then a few minutes later I have absolutely no memory of it at all.
		Almost like I've been sort of sleepwalking and it makes me wonder where did I just go and we say things like absent-minded professors and whatnot but it could be possible that when we are firing away and it would even make sense in the context of people who are extremely intellectual because you're firing away and you've got all these neurotransmitters going and then suddenly it's an overload and somehow your energy awareness gets sucked over somewhere else.
		Now, I don't know exactly what might cause some of these occurrences, but I suspect it could have something to do with the fact that doorways open up and we find ourselves in a different universe without even knowing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, exactly.
		Now, here's my point.
		If that's true, then we're like the human watching the fish in its little two-dimensional world, and we really don't have a whole lot of control, honestly, over what's happening.
		Even on a global scale, things could be shifting all the time, manipulated by external forces and we would have absolutely zero control over it, at least right now.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		It could be that way, but I tend to think that it's not necessarily something that's being done by anyone intentionally because it doesn't seem to follow any sort of logic or purpose, really.
		Sometimes it's something as simple as an apple that you thought you had that turns up disappeared from your bag.
		But I think that it's probably something that's a phenomenon that's caused by energy disturbances.
		And certainly at some point in time it may come to the point where we're able to manipulate this purposely.
		And it could be that there are beings out there that are capable of doing that.
		I don't know for sure, but I kind of suspect right now, instinctively, that it's something that's occurring quite naturally and that we don't understand why or how.
		And I also believe it explains deja vu.
		The parallel universe question would explain deja vu perfectly because if there's some sort of leak from, let's say, the area of the brain that would be connected to all of these parallel universes and have the capability to travel back and forth in awareness only, in other words, there may be millions of ott bells and millions of Morgan Spencers and we simply transfer our awareness to different ones in different universes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe, but I know certainly on occasion I've walked into rooms and I've frozen solid, just boom, stopped and looked at the room and absolutely known that I've been there before, but I know that I haven't been there before.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		That would be the scenario.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think that explains deja vu?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I believe that actually you have been there before.
		You have gone down a different timeline before.
		And things were different in that timeline.
		And suddenly when there's a leak, somehow I don't know if it would be a leak in the brain or a leak in vibration or, you know, who knows what it would be, but if there's a leak, then suddenly you're going to have that memory and your conscious part of your brain is going to say, oh no, this can't be.
		But then the truth is that it was, that you did go through and travel down a different timeline.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but ultimately the linear brain is going to win.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The linear way of thinking is going to win and you're going to say, I don't know, you're going to rationalize it away one way or the other.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		You're going to brainwash yourself.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As you were brainwashed as a child, which is a circle back to the beginning of our conversation.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		do you think we have any reason any reason to be afraid of these beings well other other than the natural incredible fight when you see one of these things is there any reason that we should be
		Certainly they could be included too.
		If they're all of the above, and we're just now beginning to see them, some may be well-intentioned, some may be enjoying themselves, some may be up to mischief, and some may be up to absolutely no good.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Absolute sinister.
		Yes, I would tend to agree with that.
		I believe that all of those things are possible.
		And yet, here's something that I think we need to think about.
		Whenever we consider these possibilities, we need to constantly be mindful of the fact that we love to scare the hell out of ourselves.
		And anytime you introduce fear into a logical process, whether it's linear, spherical, or otherwise, you're going to distort things.
		So for a moment, it's helpful if one can put aside the fear.
		It's not easy to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All fear is just like anger.
		When it occurs and it's uncontrollable, then it's like just a block going up in front of you and you can't see past it at all.
		That's true of fear, and it's true of anger.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, I believe that there are different levels of anger and fear as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't stop logical thinking.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Sure, absolutely.
		And I believe that, you know, there's fear and then there's terror.
		I believe when you're frightened, you can at least, if you're mildly frightened, you can at least talk yourself through it.
		And help.
		I've been able to do that myself a bit with regard to some of my experiences that I would probably be in a nuthouse if I hadn't learned to not necessarily control my fear, but influence its strength.
		I don't think we can control our emotions.
		I think we can influence them if we're trained very well.
		And I actually received some training because, you know, my area of research is something that many people don't survive mentally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Yes, actually I have a dear friend.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I don't want to say names or anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you need not.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I have a dear friend who I went to school with, and she is actually clinically insane and has been diagnosed with schizophrenia.
		She just finally got to the point where, and this is a person who was completely a logical, healthy person.
		She just got completely immersed in the research to the point where she couldn't keep any perspective and it just sort of took over her.
unidentified		Really?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And so training actually is quite important if you're going to research some of these things because you are getting into some dangerous areas, even if only with regard to how the physiology of the brain works.
		And, you know, again, we're talking about neurotransmitters and firing back and forth in the brain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you will, before the night is over, get some calls that will say, you bet you're in a dangerous area and you know what it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, right.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, now here I want to address one thing.
		As far as this thing goes about evil, there are people who claim that they say, oh, be gone in the name of Jesus and this being disappears.
		Yes.
		Well, I believe that why it works sometimes is that when people say this, it calms them down and it sort of quells their fear.
		And when their fear is reduced, they don't have as much emotion to offer these beings, these psychic vampires, if you will.
		And so that might explain why that works for some people and why it doesn't work for others.
		That, you know, they're not calmed by it if they don't believe it, and therefore they're not able to reduce the level of emotion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But according to even your own earlier theory, you've got to allow for the possibility, at least, that they're right and invoking the name of Jesus did do the trick.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And it is possible.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I believe that it is possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Or they're conning themselves.
		Either way, it's gone.
		So good for them.
		All right, we are going to turn to the telephones.
		The subject of time or shadow beings, you call it, we're here.
unidentified		The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		More somewhere in time coming up.
		Letters of ripple, never meeting Sand Beauty at all with these eyes before just what the truth is.
		I guess I'll be the first to be using the city.
		The End
		Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues courtesy of Premier Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remember Hosea's chameleon rods?
		Ever wonder if they might be on the same frequency as the shadow beings, or perhaps a higher frequency?
		And so, you've got to wonder if the rods can't see us all.
		Human beings, shadow beings, and all.
		Or can the shadow beings see the rods?
		I have a feeling it's all connected.
unidentified		Get a new view of the world with Coast to Coast AM.
		At this point, I'm not happy with the direction that government is taking us.
		I'm happy with the fact that Americans are beginning to wake up and stand up and do what they have to do and shout and scream and blog.
		And I think that's critical.
		And I think that's what's going to save the Republic.
		I think in the long run, as we go through all this stuff, it's the people who will save us and our country will remain strong.
		Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues, courtesy of Premier Networks.
		The End Back into the night with my guest, Dr. Morgan Spence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Dr. Spence, before we launch any telephones and pogo jump around on topics, which is what it'll do to us, Karen in Sioux Falls sends the following, talking about sleep disorders.
		Maybe you don't want to answer this.
		She says, with regard to doing things in sleep, my husband will have sex with me while he is sleeping and thinks he is dreaming, dreaming it as he is doing it.
unidentified		Is this normal?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, normal is such a subjective term.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I would say it's unusual.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Unusual.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I would say that it would, again, it would be probably the creation of or an occurrence that occurs because he's got probably a sleep disorder that makes him think that he's or that rather he dreams and because he's not paralyzed in that state as you would normally be, he goes and acts out the dream.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She doesn't mention here whether she's a happy camper or annoyed.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I was going to say, I was going to ask that question, but I think that she's lucky that hers is not that she's experiencing violence.
		But I think it's something that they should definitely have checked out because it could sort of develop into something else if he were to have a violent dream.
		So I think this should be looked at.
unidentified		She should definitely see a sleep specialist.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And of course, then there's sort of a joke that you could make out of this that some women feel that all men are sleeping when they're with their significant others.
unidentified		But that's another story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly is.
		All right.
		With that, we will launch.
		First time caller line.
		You are on the air with Dr. Morgan Spence.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there.
unidentified		I'm Jim from Grayville, South Carolina.
		Okay.
		I've experienced these shadows most of my life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These shadows.
unidentified		And I can remember things happening before I saw shadows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you mean shadow people or just shadows or seen from the corner of your eye or full-on or what are you talking about?
unidentified		Yeah, from the corner of my eye.
unidentified		But, you know, I'm an older person than what you talked about as seeing the shadow people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, that was just my general observation that it's a lot of young people, that's all.
unidentified		It's just that our family were lucky enough to get a television early.
unidentified		We got a television in the early 50s.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		That's very interesting.
unidentified		But I can remember instances when I was a child that I would think I was a very active tomboy child.
		And I can remember instances of saying, you know, I should have died by then or that should have hurt me.
		And I had the feeling that something had moved me out of harm's way.
		And as I got older, I started, you know, seeing the shadows.
		But I had not then.
		I just felt the presence of something there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, good enough.
		Now, that's interesting, Doctor, because if they are able to, in some way, physically manifest, then that which we assign to devils, demons, and angels, protective angels, a lot of people think they have something or someone looking after them.
		And there's a lady who said that she thinks probably whatever these things are, they were looking after her.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		I believe that's quite possible and quite likely, actually.
		And I think it's very interesting that she mentioned that her family got a television quite early.
		You can't help but notice the significance of that.
		This happens a lot in my research.
		I have interviewed, I don't know how many, I don't even want to venture a guess.
		And typically, these people had high-tech items in their homes earlier than the rest of their community did.
		So there's definitely a connection there.
		And after all, what is life?
		What is so except energy?
		It's an energy vibration.
		And so certainly there should be a connection there just by our own logical thinking process.
		And I definitely believe that she's right onto something.
		Now, as far as thinking that, oh, this should have killed me or so on, I've had experiences like that myself.
		So has Dr. Reed.
		And sometimes to the point where your reality seems bizarre because you're saying to yourself, it just isn't possible that this many things could happen to one person and they could still survive.
		And that is what makes me wonder, when we have near-death experiences, let's say for instance that soul energy does exist and it is really light and it does travel extremely quickly, it would be so light and traveling so quickly that it would be likely to get sucked into a black hole immediately upon being loosed from the body.
		Let's say once the soul energy is completely loosed from the body and that sort of what they call the silver cord is severed, that this soul energy would just sort of get sucked into a black hole which could be taking them to a different dimension or a different world or whatnot.
		And I think it's very interesting that people when they talk about near-death experience say they remember a bright light.
		Not all of them, but most of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Most of them, yes.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And it's interesting that even Dr. Kaku says that if you got sucked into a black hole, you would see such a bright, blinding light because there's so much light that's been sucked into the black hole.
		It can't escape.
		And so you would, for a split second, see this very strong radiation, this bright light.
		And I believe, quite honestly, and I know this is probably going to make some people feel strange, but I believe that when we have near-death experiences, frequently what's happened is we have died and we have gone on.
		And what we've done is we've been sucked into a black hole, our soul energy has been sucked into a black hole and delivered to a parallel universe where our awareness has been planted into another body, could be a body that's just like our other one, or it could be another body, who knows, that's been there all along, sort of living a life, but now our awareness is there completely instead of being there only partially.
		And we have no clue that anything has happened, except that maybe we might discover that maybe Nelson Mandela is alive instead of dead, for example.
		Or we might discover that, you know, a house that we thought was just down the road has been torn down, and we're wondering, oh, well, it just must be that I've been busy and I didn't notice.
		And there might be quite a few things, enough to make you question yourself, but not enough to quite convince you.
unidentified		Yes.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		So that's sort of my theory about near-death experience, is that that could be.
		And then the other question that you posed, and she posed, was, you know, could these shadow beings be protective?
		Here's what I believe, and this is where it gets sort of strange and yet I believe profound, if you'll bear with me.
		Assuming that these beings are out there and exist, which I believe they do, it's hard for me not to after seeing what I've seen and experiencing things myself.
		I believe that what happens is all beings seem to follow certain rules regardless of their species.
		For example, with the human race, there are people who are extremely aggressive and malicious in their intent towards other humans and other animals, and yet there are other people who are very nice and warm and fuzzy, so to speak.
		And there are other people who are in the middle, and any one of us on any given day, depending on what's happening in our lives and what mood we're in, could be either way.
		And so certainly extraterrestrials and shadow people and other beings would seem to follow that same behavior pattern.
		And I believe that a lot of people, from what they're reporting in the great diversification in the details, I believe that, you know, that supports that theory.
unidentified		Now, I believe also, with regard to extraterrestrials, for example...
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, I see a lot of typically it's difficult to study shadow people in my experience without also studying extraterrestrials because they seem to come hand in hand.
		And I believe that's probably because these beings, some of them are extraterrestrials.
		And they may be very advanced and coming from the future and they may be capable of manipulating energy fields to where they are invisible unless they decide to show themselves or unless something goes wrong, which, you know, even in our space program, we experience mistakes, don't we?
		We know all about those.
unidentified		Oh, you bet.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And so they may have problems with some of their technologies, and sometimes they may not always be able to be cloaked.
		And with regard to abductions, our perspective is that it's terrifying.
		And again, as I said earlier in the show, the primitive response seems to be that if it's frightening to me and if I've never experienced it before, it must be evil.
		But I don't buy that because, again, we're not all evil and certainly there are animals that are frightened of us.
		You know, when we try to look after endangered species, what do we do?
		Well, we abduct them, basically.
		We kidnap them.
		We take them back to our laboratories.
		We inject them with microchips so that we can track where they are and then we study them.
		And then what we do is we try to help them.
		We take birds and we stuff them in paper bags so that we can weigh them actually.
		And that must be terrifying for the bird.
		And I'm sure the bird goes and tells all the other little birds that these people, they're awful.
		They want to make slaves with us.
		They want to kill us.
		I don't know what they're doing to us, but it's terrible.
		It's horrible and I don't like it.
		But the truth is, our intent in doing this is to protect them.
		And it seems to me that if an intelligent species of beings is watching us, to them we must look like we are extremely endangered as a species.
		Because look what we're doing to ourselves.
		Look what we're doing to each other.
		We've got all these diseases popping up.
		We've got people bombing buildings and all kinds of things happening that are just terrible and that may ultimately be the end of our race if we aren't careful.
		And I believe that even though we don't want to believe this, you know, we don't like to be controlled or influenced because it makes us angry.
		It's something we don't like.
		But the truth is, maybe they are doing something for our own good, much like we do things for the good of endangered species.
		And we also influence reproduction.
		You know, I hear these stories of people who've been taken.
		And I've actually, I told you before when we spoke yesterday that I have had some experiences that I'm only willing to call dreams because not because I'm frightened of it being real, I almost wish it were and hope that it is real because it's certainly interesting and I like to think that interesting things are real most important.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rolling back for just a second, if this is going on, if some sort of beneficial action is taking place, then I wish they'd do a better job because if you look at present trends and behavior, there hasn't been very much modification on the positive side just yet.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, right, and I believe it's a long process.
		And again, look at our own animal kingdom.
		It appears that we haven't made much progress with what we're doing with them either.
		So I wish we could develop some better methods as well, because our methods don't seem to work very well at times.
		And then there's the other problem of that certain humans are engaged in trying to save these species, while other humans are engaged in killing them mindlessly, sort of for the fun of it.
		And that's sort of disturbing because it suggests that there are probably alien beings who would do the same thing to us.
		And I believe it does and has happened.
		And yet, the truth is, what do we do to people who we can catch anyway who are doing this to endangered species?
		Well, we punish them.
		And so we are incredibly motivated to protect the species.
		And therefore, that includes helping to eliminate anything that causes a threat to the species, even if it's within our own species.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let me bring somebody else on.
		A lot of people here.
		Wildcard Lynch, you're on the air with Dr. Morgan Spence.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yes.
		Hi, Art.
		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm Sarah from Syracuse, New York.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Sarah.
unidentified		Hi.
		I have a shadow person experience that took place on December 15th of last year.
		And the reason I know that is that it was in a dream state, and I keep a dream journal.
		So I remember it.
		And what happened was I dreamt that I was lying in bed awake in the dark, and suddenly I saw this entity hovering above me, this dark energy field, and it just suddenly swooped down on my chest and shoulder area and it pinned me.
		And it got a hold of my throat so that I couldn't speak.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Always smokes.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And so I was just stuck.
		I was totally immobilized.
		But I realized for some reason that I could hum or chant.
		I could make sounds with my throat.
		So I hummed for some reason.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you hum?
unidentified		I just went, hmm.
		And at that point, I didn't feel pressure on my throat because it literally got me by the throat.
		And that was the only sound that I could make.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You could have gone.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And at that point, the dream stopped.
		And that was the end of it.
		But when it came down on me, I noticed that my spirit kind of went off to the side of my body because I think I was so freaked out I couldn't bear to look it in the eye.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		Yeah.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's interesting.
		First of all, it's interesting that when you woke up, the being wasn't already on you.
		It sort of, am I correct?
		You say that.
unidentified		No, I never woke up.
		Never woke up.
		I just kept, I went on to the next dream, I guess.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		All right, so it was a dream.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		You believe it was a dream?
unidentified		Yeah, I think it could have been some sort of, you know, it was almost like an out-of-body experience, too.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's difficult to say what it might be, but I can say this.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		It's very interesting that you had the presence of mind to hum.
unidentified		Yeah, that's interesting.
unidentified		And I almost got the sense that it wanted me to.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, and it almost also sounds like you instinctively knew that you were thinking rationally.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		You weren't so overcome with terror.
unidentified		That's true.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And I believe that possibly the humming was a way for you to almost distract yourself from what was happening and sort of dissipate some of the fear.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And that could have, assuming this was more than, quote, just a dream, I don't know really if there is such a thing as just a dream.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well it's kind of a vocal pinching yourself, right?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
unidentified		Exactly.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Pinch me I'm dreaming or hum something I'm afraid, I'm having a nightmare.
		So yes, that certainly would make sense.
		And I think that that's interesting and that is encouraging because it suggests that when we are focused and don't allow the fear to run away with us, so to speak, figuratively or literally, then it helps us to combat whatever it is that seeks to control us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but there's at least an even chance that what happened to her was real.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I believe so.
		I believe, you know, perception is something that is very unreliable.
		And so we may perceive that things are dreams.
		You know, I have friends who say, well, why do you insist this was just a dream?
		Why don't you just go ahead and say you've been abducted?
		Well, first of all, I don't like to be judged, and most people will judge you if you say that.
		And secondly, to be honest, I honestly don't know that it wasn't a dream.
		I have no idea.
		It felt real.
		I could feel pain.
		I have changes occurring in my body that were evident the next day and so on.
		But I just don't know.
		I don't know if it was a dream or not.
		And yet, at some point, it becomes a question of, does it really matter?
		The brain doesn't know the difference between a dream and reality.
		This is a fact.
		We really don't.
		That's why we respond the way we do when we're having a terrible nightmare or a great dream, so to speak, a wet dream.
		So who really knows?
		And does it matter whether it's just a dream or not?
		That doesn't mean that there isn't an entity that's communicating something to us or studying us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, the kind of communication that went on there, we can all do without.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anything else, ma'am?
unidentified		No, that's all.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not exactly the warm and fuzzy story.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And the question I would have is, could it be that the reason they were immobilizing or this being was immobilizing her was because they were afraid that she was going to try to fight them with something they were doing.
		For example, if we are trying to impregnate an animal artificially and the animal is subdued and suddenly it wakes up, we're quite frightened of what they might do, especially let's say it's a lion or something.
		We're quite frightened of what it might do if it wakes up during the process.
		Not only could it destroy our work that we've tried to complete, but it could also hurt us.
		And so it could be happening the same way.
		They want to make sure that we're mobilized so that they can continue what they're doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
		Well, I had a college professor the other night saying what they're doing is sexual or reproductive in nature.
		And so that might have been the next step if she hadn't humped.
		Bottom of the hour.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		This is Premiere Networks.
		That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
		I'm waiting by your side.
		You've been loved.
		I don't know what you can go.
		You know it's just your foolish friend.
		Yeah, love.
		Got me on my knees.
		Dang it, darling, please be.
		Darling, won't you...
		music
		music
		music music
		music
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 31, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
		We're talking about shadow people and time and the nature of time and all kinds of related stuff.
		But basically about shadow people, and by the way, she's got a brand new website up.
		They're writing a book called Shadow Beings, Reality Unveiled.
		I say they.
		Of course, that would be my guest, Dr. Morgan Spence, and Dr. C.A. Reed, her partner in, I don't want to say crime.
		It's not a crime to write a book.
		It's a good thing about shadow beings.
		They've got a website up, too, and we've got a link to it on my website.
		Check it out.
		It's a brand new website.
		We'll ask about it in a moment.
		For now, please stay right where you are.
unidentified		there's more to come.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 31, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coast to Coast AM Back into the night we go with my guest, Dr. Morgan Spence.
		And welcome back, Doctor.
		Thank you.
		Would like to stick in this final segment to the phones if we can.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Spence.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, this is Chris Inspector Moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Chris.
		You're going to have to yell at us.
		You're not too loud.
unidentified		Okay, sorry about that.
unidentified		That's better?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, much better.
unidentified		Okay.
		I was just wanting to make a comment.
		I have never seen a shadow person in my life.
		And, well, I remember back when I was younger, almost playing some sort of imaginary game with myself, imagining another, like, world of people that nobody could see, but they could come out at night and, well, let's just say, do all the things that we do, but no one knows that they're doing them.
		And that's all I wanted to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's not very far off, is he?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		No, he's not.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And again, you have to consider the possibility that it could just be imagination, but then maybe not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remember the boogeyman?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, when you were young, the boogeyman, right?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe the boogeyman was real.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And I also say that I'm not so sure that there is such a thing as imagination.
		Could it be that what we call the imagination is simply our brains receiving information or input from somewhere that we don't really understand, and so we call it imagination.
		Interestingly, you know, all of the things that we've had in our films in the past from, you know, Star Trek and so on, isn't it interesting how so many of them developed later on?
		And it seems to be that whoever's writing them is almost tuning into the future when they're doing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Spence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		This is Dan and Eugene.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Dan.
unidentified		How you doing?
		Okay.
		I've been into the Jose Argoilis and the Mayan factor and that sort of thing.
		And he puts out the concept of the morphogenic field, where there's a planet mind.
		And like the native Aboriginal Australians, they've been living in the dream time.
		And a close experience with a friend who actually had a dream that he was climbing on a limb, it was going to fall off on a picnic table.
		He dreamed this.
		And he told me about the next day.
		He went to the picnic.
		He was up on a limb.
		And he went, oh my gosh, I'm about to fall off.
		I remember this dream.
		So this close experience made me really believe the trust between us, made me believe the experience that he had.
		And then Jose Arguellis.
		So the planet mind, with all of our minds creating electromagnetic impulses, it seems like they're, and with all the frequencies, if you kind of start weaving these things together, and you read a little Stephen Hawkins Brief History of Time, nothing solid, we're like radios.
		We tune into sooth sensory frequencies.
		Our eyes see a few hundred millicrons of many million millicrons of light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, somebody just seems to have delivered a radio to us that tunes a higher frequency.
unidentified		Right.
		Exactly.
		So it's the morphogenic field concept that you guys are into or studied much.
		The planet mind sort of concept.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, on the website, it's interesting because, are you still there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, well, I'm here.
		He's on.
		The website.
		You just put the website up, and it's entitled Shadowbeings.com, huh?
unidentified		Yes.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		But I was going to say on the website, in the book at the top, I talk about not necessarily telepathy, but I talk about the transmission aspects, the receiver and the transmission activity of the brain.
		We don't often like to simplify ourselves scientifically because we'd like to believe we're much more than we are, and I believe that we are.
		You know, we're much more than the sum of our parts, as I believe everything is.
		And that's why I don't believe you can isolate things too much in a laboratory and approach any kind of reality in your results.
		But I talk about how, at its essence, the brain does nothing more really than receive information and send information.
		It's that simple.
		And yet there are so many complicated processes going on between the two in order for that to happen that it appears to be much more complex than it is.
unidentified		And let's look at computers.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		For all the things we do on computers, all the images we see, all of the activities that we do and the things we use them for, all they do is process zeros and ones in different configurations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So far.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		And the truth is, you know, some scientists said they were surprised to find that when we mapped the human gene that it didn't seem to have that many more sequences than that of a worm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's quite right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That they expected this great complexity that they appeared to be disappointed.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Exactly, but that's only because we dream and fantasize that we're much more complicated than we are.
		Exactly, because that's our experience of ourselves.
		I'm sure the worm would be surprised to know that we have more complex genes than they do, because they probably seem much more advanced to themselves than we do, assuming they have a consciousness.
		And of course, we decided long ago that something needs to have some sort of brain in order to have a consciousness.
		I don't know that that's true.
		Perhaps there are other aspects of beings and even plants that don't have brains, but clearly they do have central nervous systems.
		I mean, that's how a Venus flytrap is able to...
		Yes, I actually have the book.
		And it's all true.
		I mean, it's just that we sort of get caught up in our delusions of what things are.
		And it's our experience that causes us to be misled by ourselves rather than the other way around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So perhaps we think a little much of ourselves, huh?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I truly think so.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I really do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Dr. Spence.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
		I just, well, I know somebody that basically says like, you know, when I'm going to come over and visit them, what they'll do is they say that they'll see like a dark shadow of me before I come to their house.
		This is somebody I know.
		And then I had a personal experience where I encountered something was going on in our community that was having a big effect.
		And I had these three-dimensional shadow people show up.
		And they would talk to me in dreams.
		And they even caused me to astral project and stuff.
		But what I found out from interacting with them is that they were thought forms.
		These shadow beings are actually thought forms or images that we as humans generate these images and also these other beings are able to generate these images or shadow beings.
		Actually what they are astral projections of us and of these beings.
		And what I found out is that even though like I'm awake right now, I'm actually astral projecting but I only become a consciously aware of what my astral projecting is when I fall asleep and I all of a sudden have this feeling of astral projecting when in reality I'm actually doing this all the time.
		It's just I'm not consciously aware other than the thoughts I generate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then if I'm hearing this correctly, you're suggesting these shadow beings are projections of living entities, i.e.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		ourselves.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And that's where remote viewing.
		And there are times where I've astroprojected and I run into things that I didn't really care to run into or, you know, all of a sudden something's there and you get, you know, get attacked or something like that.
		And all of a sudden you go back to your body.
		And I'm thinking, you know, thank God humans, when they astroproject, can't see what they're seeing because it'd be really a nightmare, you know, if we send out thought forms and we could actually see what our thought forms are seeing.
		And I think, you know, this has a lot to do with what schizophrenics are going to, that they're actually more in tune with their thought forms than what normal people are actually experiencing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Ur, that's an interesting concept.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Yes, actually, it is.
		And I cover that in the book as well that we're going to release in e-book form on the 18th of this month and then in August in paper form.
		But it's, yes, he's correct that I believe that is one form of shadow person.
		I don't believe it explains all of the manifestations.
		Again, it's sort of like if you discovered a mirror for the first time and you might say, oh, when you look into the mirror, you see yourself.
		And someone else might say, well, no, when you look into the mirror, you see a car.
		Well, it all depends on what's in front of that mirror.
		And so it could be, I do believe it's many different things.
		It's not as simple as any one thing.
		But I do believe that, and again it talks about this more in the book, but I do believe that when we go to sleep, you know, we're constantly, all the time, we're shedding hairs and skin cells.
		And I do believe that when we go to sleep frequently, it's possible that certain energy vibrations get old and sort of dissipate.
		And we shed possibly an energy shell, if you will.
		And this energy shell could be capable of traveling on its own and having sort of a mini consciousness until it sort of maybe dissipates into nothingness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's interesting, a mini consciousness until it dissipates.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Right.
		So I do believe that a certain percentage of this phenomenon has to do with the fact that some of ourselves, we may have sort of been letting go of old parts of ourselves and this may be a regular thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's sort of projections spinning off.
unidentified		Right.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And then I also believe that thoughts are things and when you are thinking about someone, you are sending energy in that direction.
		And thought being an incredibly light form of energy that we haven't even been able to really define or see yet, then I think it follows that it could travel extremely fast and it could travel in a way that we don't understand.
		And that possibly we are, in a sense, projecting ourselves there before we get there in order to get there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, I get thousands of emails on this subject.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How would you like a few?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okie dokie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's your email address?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		My email address is dimension1111 at yahoo.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dimension1111 at yahoo.com?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Dimension and then 41s and at yahoo.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		41s?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God.
		I'm never going to hear the end of this.
		That's a great email address.
		Dimensionand41es at yahoo.com.
		Go get her, folks.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Spence.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello, Art.
		Hello, Dr. Spence.
		My name's Don, and I'm in northern Indiana.
		Yes, sir.
		And I believe I have a proof for time travel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
unidentified		And I think the doctor could research it and actually prove the time travel is going on, and they are affecting the timeline.
		Are you aware of the fact that people supposedly have photographic memories as they age their memory in every area but history stays photographic?
		No.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		No, I wasn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I was not aware of that.
unidentified		In every area but history.
unidentified		History.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Very interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fascinating.
unidentified		And that is a proof that someone is going back and changing history because photographic memories have been proven.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		Yes, absolutely.
		But how are you able to demonstrate to us that what you just said is true, that their photographic memory remains intact throughout their life, save?
unidentified		You can prove that a young child to a certain degree has photographic memory.
unidentified		As you study the child over the space of years, the gaps in the history, the conflict in the history recall, start occurring.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's interesting.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, one question that I would have is photographic memory implies seeing something and having a memory of that and not necessarily...
unidentified		It's the with the help of hypnosis, you can bring back the total sensations that you're experiencing.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Well, when you get into hypnosis, that's an area where I'm not quite sure if that's as reliable as we'd like to believe.
unidentified		Well, you have to have someone that's trained and not to lead someone.
unidentified		Well, sure.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		But even when they're trained not to lead someone, that doesn't mean it doesn't occur.
unidentified		Yeah, it does occur.
		And the other fact that I wanted to bring out, we're talking about the shadow people.
		I think if you would take a look at the folklore and mythology, especially in the Irish folklore, you will find that they divide the world into the existence that you're living in a place that they call a shade which is in between where we're living and someplace else that people can enter into travel observe what
		and then the astral plane is separate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sort of a religious person might refer to that center area as a kind of purgatory, huh?
unidentified		No, it's not a purgatory.
unidentified		It's a...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I said a religious person might refer to it in that manner.
unidentified		Well, they might, but it wasn't looked on that way.
		And a proof of that is if you have access to security tapes from the major malls around the world, you will literally see people disappear.
		And then 100, 200 feet down the mall, they'll reappear.
		And there's nothing wrong with the tape, nothing wrong with the equipment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're blowing me away again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you know this to be true?
unidentified		Well, I'm out of the military, and I was in the security end before I was forced to retire.
		Okay.
		And...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you had an occasion to watch a lot of those tapes.
unidentified		The puzzles, yeah.
unidentified		And I don't know if you've ever spent eight hours a night chasing ghosts on a lurk pad, and all your senses is telling you it's there and you can't find it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I've never done that.
unidentified		But I'm sure you've heard of Air Force personnel complaining about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have.
		And your point is exceptionally well made.
		Thank you.
		Let's see if we can sneak one more in here.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Spence.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		My name is Mark.
unidentified		I'm calling from British Columbia, Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Mark.
unidentified		I just wanted to share a couple stories with you about my experiences with the shadow people.
		It was probably about a year ago, I guess.
		I was sleeping with my girlfriend, and I was at the end of my dream, and I saw this big glowing orange sphere flying towards me.
		i had the choice to like go towards it or wake myself up and i woke up and i'm beside my bed there was there was a dark a dark shape standing there and it it kind of morphed its shape and started going down towards the floor and it turned into a dog and then it disappeared.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turned into a, I'm sorry?
unidentified		It was kind of shaped like a dog.
unidentified		It was like, I don't know, like a wolf or something, but it was hard to make out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then it was.
unidentified		It was some sort of canine.
		And then it disappeared.
		And then I had an experience, I guess it was a few months ago.
		I was sleeping and I was looking over a grassy field and there were these dark shadow people walking around and they were walking around in circles and there was bushes around and there was dogs kind of running around their feet like smelling at the bushes and stuff.
		And they all, like there was probably seven or eight of these shadow people and they all turned and walked away from me at the same time and the dogs kind of scurried like away from me for a second and then they turned into spirits and started flying around me and I heard this really loud screeching piercing noise that woke me up from my sleep and I was completely terrified and I guess it was about a
		month ago my girlfriend was watching a show on TV she was at her parents' house and she called me on the phone and it was a show on sleep paralysis and there was a woman on there that was talking about these dark entities and they wear anks around their neck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sir, we're going to have to leave the line.
		We're woefully short on time.
		I very much appreciate your call and particularly your first story.
		Doctor, your e-book, you're going to have an e-book.
		You're writing a book, which is going to be called Shadow Beings, Reality Unveiled.
		It's going to be available on the net.
		When?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		On June 18th.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		June 18th.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Day after my birthday.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then it's going to be out in paperback for him, is that correct?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I believe August.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In August?
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Yes, the end of August.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the meantime, they have your new website to go to.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Congratulations on the birth of your new website.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the meantime, you've been absolutely fascinating to have on the program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really fascinating, and we will have you back.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		I hope very soon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, and good night.
dr morgan spence ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, look, we're out of time.
		I'm sorry about that, everybody.
		Boy, what an hour, huh?
		In fact, what a night.
		Tomorrow night, we'll be back with, I'm not sure what, open lines, and I'm open to suggestions.

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