All Episodes
Previous Next
May 29, 2001 - Art Bell
02:50:38
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - UFOs and Abductions - David M. Jacobs - Mars Update
| Copy link to current segment

Time Text
Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 29th, 2001.
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I'd like to do all good evening and or good morning or good afternoon, wherever you may be across this great land of ours, well beyond.
Commercially, from the island of Guam, the lovable rock in the Pacific, Out across the Dateline, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S.
Virgin Islands, south into South America, north all the way to the Pole, this is Post Coast AM, and I'm Mark Bell.
Good morning.
This'll be an interesting week, and we'll lead it off with Dr. Jacobs, one of my favorite guests of all time, because... we agree.
Dr. Jacobs is one of the only people to ever suggest that the visitations that we're getting from elsewhere May not be the warm, fuzzy little guys that so many people imagine them to be.
The guys waiting with the needles and probes just may not be who you want them to be.
So, Dr. Jacobs tonight, in a few moments, as a matter of fact.
Now, we have new guys tonight.
Welcome to Tulsa, Oklahoma.
For those of you from Tulsa, I know many listening long distance to various stations.
Guess what?
We have just landed in Tulsa on KTBZ 1430 on the dial.
And they will carry the entire program every night.
So, good morning, Tulsa!
WDBQ in Dubuque, Iowa.
Welcome!
Good to be in Dubuque now, too.
$14.90 on the dial in Dubuque.
So, two new ones tonight.
Tulsa and Dubuque, Iowa.
Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Dubuque, Iowa.
That's excellent.
And we are so close to 500 affiliates right now.
And actually, once we get there, We may... Let's put it this way.
We're within reach of being the largest talk show, period, in number of affiliates.
And so, we may take a race toward that mark.
Already we are the largest talk show in the history of the country.
Nighttime talk show.
Affiliate-wise, certainly we are there now.
However, as we're about to hit the 500 mark, and I can't tell you it's very close though, from that point, we're going to be racing toward the next mark, which will be the largest number of affiliates ever gathered by any talk show.
Ever!
Which would be an interesting goal to pursue.
Don't forget, we are now on C-Band, folks!
I want to remind you every now and then of that.
If you have one of those old dinosaur big dishes, I love mine.
Boy, you couldn't drag mine from anything but my cold, dead fingers.
We're on Seaban now, Seaban Satellite, so if you have one of the monsters, go to W3 or GE3, transponder 18, which happens to be the Fox Movie Channel, but turn your audio to 6.8 so you can watch like some Fox movie or something.
Without the sound, and you can listen to us on 6.8 MHz wideband audio.
so if you'll stay right there tonight will kick it off with a guest
and a good one too doctor david m jacobs coming up
doctor david m jacobs is associate professor of history at temple
university specializing in twentieth century american history and culture
Bye for now.
That's us.
He is the former director of the American Studies Program.
Dr. Jacobs has been a UFO researcher for 35 years.
Long time.
In 1973, he completed his doctoral dissertation in the field of Um, intellectual... Yeah, intellectual history, that's interesting, we'll have to talk about that.
At the University of Wisconsin-Madison, on the controversy over identified, unidentified, or are they now, identified flying objects in America.
This was only the second PhD degree granted involving a UFO related theme.
Indiana University Press published a revised version of his dissertation by Indiana University Press as The UFO Controversy in America in 1975.
It was the first positive book toward UFOs published by an academic press.
He's written and delivered many articles, papers, and addresses on the subject of UFOs and abductions, has been a consultant to major UFO organizations, for many of them.
For over 20 years, he has offered the only regular curriculum university course on UFOs, UFOs in American society.
He delivered the first paper to a scientific organization about the abduction phenomena, Cornell University in 1989.
Participated in the first session on UFOs at the History of Science Society, Washington D.C.
in 92.
Developed the first scientific topology of the abduction experience.
Since the early 80s, he's specialized in the UFO abduction phenomena.
Conducted more than 800 hypnotic regressions.
800!
With over 130 abductees.
Has lectured widely on the subject.
Giving papers at universities and colleges all across our country.
Dr. Jacobs and colleague Bud Hopkins, you know Bud, conducted the much-discussed Roper Organization Poll of the Abduction Phenomena.
The results of that highly influential survey were published in 1992 in the booklet, Unusual Personal Experiences, commissioned by Bob Bigelow.
Remember that?
He has just done so much, he has so many books And we're going to discuss, in all probability, all of his books.
So, the one that I really fell in love with, I think, along with, I guess, a lot of the rest of the country, was The Threat.
He's got a brand new book, though, and we'll tell you about that.
The Threat I fell in love with because The Threat outlined perhaps an unpopular notion And that is that these beings may not be what we hope they are.
All warm and friendly.
Dr. Jacobs, welcome.
Welcome to the program.
Well, thank you, Art.
I appreciate it.
Boy, there's so much information about you here.
You have so many books now.
And you have a brand new one, I hear.
Well, the new one is an edited one.
It's edited by me, and it includes ten authors, and it's published by an academic press also, and it's really only the second academic press book that takes primarily a positive viewpoint towards UFOs and abductions that's been published in the last half century.
It's really not a very good sort of comment on The academic world and the subject.
That's amazing enough all by itself.
What is it called?
Well, it's called UFOs and Abductions Challenging the Borders of Knowledge, and I've contributed a chapter, of course, and Bud Hopkins and John Mack and Eddie Bullard and Jerry Clark and Don D'Andre, Stuart Appel, and for people into UFO research, I'll recognize these names.
All the heavyweights.
Yeah, Michael Swords and Michael Persinger, who did sort of a negative article up in Ontario.
I hope I didn't leave anybody out.
It's a really solid, well-done book.
Michael Briggs at the University of Kansas Press was instrumental in making it into a first-rate book.
I'm very proud of it and pleased with it.
It's aimed at the academic community.
Most academics not only don't know anything about the subject, but they don't know that there is anything to know about the subject.
They don't know that there's a there there, as they say.
Well, that's what we ought to talk about, whether there is a there there.
Now, you've been doing this professionally Thirty-five years, is that right?
Well, about that, yeah.
I got interested in the subject in the mid-1960s, and by the late 60s, I was subscribing to Flying Saucer Review, and I joined NICAP and APRO and became a, quote, field investigator, end quote, for APRO back in the late 60s and early 70s, and that's where I published my first words on the subject was through APRO, actually.
Well, you know, if after 35 years, Doctor, there's not something to this, then what are you doing?
That's an excellent question.
You know, I ask myself that question every day.
Well, it is a good question and it deserves a good answer.
In other words, are you as convinced today as you have been?
How's it gone?
In fact, that's a better question.
Over the 35 years there have been, I'm sure, peaks and valleys in your Well, there has been.
In terms of my personal opinion about this subject, everybody these days is a skeptic or a debunker or good on UFOs and bad on abductions or whatever.
Yes, and if I stay away from abductees for a long period of time, I begin to think, well, you know, maybe I've been barking up the wrong tree.
Maybe my life has been totally wasted, for example.
But these thoughts kind of come into me, and then I get back to the data, and I get back to abductees, and I get back to testimony, and I think, no, no, no, no, no.
I did the right thing as far as I'm concerned.
I always have doubts, of course, but the evidence just overwhelms it every time I go back to it.
As I said for The Threat, it's a downright embarrassing book, and I am embarrassed by it, but at the same time I'm really quite confident.
Why are you embarrassed by it?
Well, I say absolutely insane things!
And, you know, obviously for an academic to come out and... What do you think you said in the threat that's insane?
Well, I mean, unfortunately, most abduction researchers have to say this eventually, but, you know, this is a deal which is reproductively oriented, and there's sort of a sexual component to it at times, and what I'm saying in this book is that women are being used as hosts for hybrid babies, But that is what we hear from the abductees, so why would it be insane to say that?
Well, I went further than that, and then I talked about what I thought was the meaning of all this, and I did talk about the fact that I think that ultimately this is probably some sort of an integration program.
Some sort of what?
Integration program, or a colonization, or a takeover.
I'm not sure what phrase to use because I don't know How the shape of it will be in the future, but I do think that this is a situation where we're not looking at a study, we're not looking at an experiment, we're not looking at a learning situation.
What we're seeing here is a systematic program, a systematic agenda, in essence, that has a beginning, a middle, and an end.
It's goal directed.
And it's primarily for these beings' purposes and not necessarily for us.
And, you know, when you say things like that, that aliens from another planet are coming down here and having sex with women to take over the control of the planet or whatever, I'd say that's pretty far out.
Well, it is until you talk to a duckies.
Well, that's the thing, and I'll talk with people who've had abduction experiences who've never read anything that I've written and who really don't know much about the subject, and they'll come out in hypnosis with the same things.
And I just hear them over and over again.
Well, then let me tell you one.
You know, I've been doing radio for a whole lot of years now on related subjects, and in the early years, even though we talked about abduction, women would never call the show Ever.
And say that they had had sexual experiences in connection with abduction.
But in the last couple of years, in the last two or three years, and especially the last year, I've been getting a lot of those calls, Doctor.
Yeah, you know, I don't think this is going to go away.
I think we're in for the long haul with this, and it's opening up.
It's becoming safer for people to come forward, and more and more people are recognizing that these odd things are happening to them.
And it's programs like yours that have allowed for that to happen, because they've opened up channels of communication and safety for people, and there's a ripple effect throughout the society.
In general, a lot of publicity that's in the past two decades over the subject has done that.
Doctor, what do we know about the women that have said they've had sexual experiences in connection with abduction?
How many of these women, for example, have turned up pregnant?
Well, what happens is that, in my opinion, and now I can't tell you actual statistics, I'd have to go back in my own I hope your audience understands that as a person who uses a host or a hybrid fetus, and I know that I'm saying a lot for people who just might be tuning in and not know much about the subject, but what we found and what Bud Hopkins found in the early 1980s
My guess is that virtually all of the women whom I've worked with have had that.
sex were involved in the subject and that women were being implanted with these little
fetuses or embryos and then they were removed sometime later so they are pregnant and then
they are mysteriously not pregnant. My guess is that virtually all of the women
whom I have worked with have had that. Now the problem is that sometimes when I work
with somebody I will only see them once and so we haven't built a relationship enough
to find out all the inner particulars of a person's life.
But people who I've worked with for any number of, for any period of time will immediately say that because that is ultimately one of the reasons why they're being abducted.
Why would they need these women?
Obviously, yes, for reproductive purposes, but I mean, I didn't mean, I guess I should rephrase my question, not why do they need the women, why do they need These fetuses at that level.
Well, actually, why do they need the women?
It's just as good a question.
I figured they need them or they wouldn't do it.
That's the answer.
We really don't know why they need to have men and women.
Why this aspect takes place.
Because one would assume that we know that they take eggs and sperm.
And this has been a constant in this phenomenon.
Forever, practically.
But if you take a couple of gallons of sperm, you've got enough to last you for a long time, it seems to me.
Oh, a couple of gallons of sperm?
You could repopulate the planet!
Well, it lasts for a couple of weeks, anyway.
And if you take a couple hundred thousand follicles and just sort of have them mature in vitro, Why do you need to keep coming back over and over and over
again and doing this?
The answer is, well, we don't know.
The same thing with using a woman as a host to incubate the fetus.
Why can't they do that through some sort of technological means in vitro in some way?
The answer to that is, we really don't know, but your answer is the best one.
That is, they do it because they need these procedures and they need these women and men
for reasons that we don't fully understand yet because we just don't have all the answers.
What is our best guess, though?
In other words, what are they doing with these living things?
Well, the other question she asks is, well, why are they doing these fetuses?
Now, even as I say this, you have to remember that That this reproductive aspect has been noticed from the very beginning.
It was there in the Antonio Villas-Boas case of 1957.
It was there in the Barney and Betty Hill case of 1961.
It's there in cattle mutilations.
It's there in cattle mutilations.
And if that's related to the abduction phenomenon, then it's all part of the same package in some way that we don't understand.
But the fact is, though, that for abductees, This is a constant.
And what I found, which is in the threat, is the fact that the hybridization program is far more complex and far more important than we had ever, ever thought.
In other words, when Bud Hopkins first discovered this back in 19... well, which he wrote up in his book, Intruders, We were just astonished.
I remember him calling me up maybe in 1983 or so and telling me that he'd had this case where this woman was presented with this odd little baby, and the baby looked weird, sort of a crest between an alien and a human, and I couldn't believe what I was hearing.
I'd never heard anything like it.
Oh, I remember that.
I remember that case, as a matter of fact.
Sure.
Do you think that these hybrids are there or among us?
I think that they are there, however, I'm wavering on that.
Alright, hold that thought.
I understand.
Hold that thought.
It's a living thing we're talking about.
It's Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 29th, 2001.
What don't you do with me?
Higher and higher, baby.
It's a living thing.
It's a terrible thing to lose.
It's a given thing.
What a terrible thing to lose!
I'm leaving the rest to you!
All the same!
Hey!
...she was down here that she came In the ear of the cat
She doesn't give you time for questions As she locks up your eyes and hers
And you follow to your sense of which direction Completely disappears
By the blue-tiled walls, near the market stalls There's a hidden door she leads you to
you These days, friends, I feel my life just like a river
running through the air of the cat.
I'm just a river running through the air of the cat.
Premier Radio Network presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's program originally aired May 29, 2001.
That's who we are.
All right, good morning.
Dr. David M. Jacobs is Associate Professor of History at Temple University, specializing in 20th century American history and culture.
He's also former director of the American Studies program, a heavyweight in ufology.
Are you listening to what he's saying about Our women?
And them?
Are you women listening?
She wants to walk.
Anyway, we'll get back to it in a moment.
I can tell it's gonna be a good night.
Stay right there.
Alright, here we go again.
Since we're loosely on the subject, by the way, Dr. Stevens, a heart specialist, had died, and his friends and loved ones were attending his funeral.
His coffin was placed before what appeared to be a mock-up of a very large heart.
Appropriate, I guess, for a heart specialist, huh?
When the priest had finished the sermon, and after everyone had said their goodbyes, the heart opened up.
And the coffin proceeded to slowly roll inside.
After several moments had passed, the large heart slowly closed.
Just as the heart had closed, one of the mourners started laughing uncontrollably.
Laughing!
The guy next to him said, what are you laughing at?
Well, I was thinking about my own funeral, the man replied.
What's so funny about that?
Well, I'm a gynecologist.
Dr. Jacobs, welcome back.
Quite an introduction, Art.
It's the visual.
Anyway, this is really serious stuff we're talking about.
We're talking about a violation of a human being.
We're talking about kind of the equivalent of rape, from our perspective anyway.
It's perfectly awful in those terms.
That's true.
We look at it that way.
A lot of abductees look at it that way.
A lot of abductees don't.
In a phenomenon as widespread as this, you're going to get a spectrum of opinion, both personally and, of course, societally, about what it all means.
Personally, for many abductees, especially those who really don't understand what's happened to them, They live in a kind of coping world where they feel that it's wonderful and it's great and it's all things that are good and kind.
Is that why you think they have that attitude?
Well, there's a lot of reasons for it.
I think that's probably one of the major reasons.
It certainly is better to feel that you're part of a grand... Are they necessarily wrong?
In other words, Dr. Jacobs, you don't have the power to stop what's happening to them, right?
Well, not really.
We can slow it down a little bit.
We can stop it at certain times, but basically the answer is no, we don't have the power.
So then, if you don't, if nobody can stop it, then they're coping with it.
Is probably their best choice.
Absolutely.
Oh, absolutely.
Oh, I totally agree.
And I would not try to persuade people otherwise.
But you have to remember that this is a secret phenomenon.
And it's clandestine.
And it's clandestine for a reason.
And the bottom line reason is that they don't want us to know what they're doing to us.
That is the bottom line.
And it's an unarguable Well, what are they doing to us?
I mean, other than the obvious.
Right, well, they don't want us to know that they're taking us and that they're doing all this reproductive stuff and they're manufacturing these hybrids and that it's a worldwide phenomenon and that it occupies a tremendous amount of people's lives, time and energy and so forth.
And because we might want to stop it.
I mean, some people may object.
We definitely might want to stop it.
Right.
And that can't be allowed.
And that's where powerlessness comes in.
That's where you get a situation of dominance.
And it can't be allowed, and it won't be allowed, and it isn't.
Do you believe the government is aware of this?
Well, I really don't.
I think primarily, as I might have mentioned before, that the government takes its cues from the scientific community, and the scientific community not only thinks that it's just total nonsense, but they're resolutely hostile to looking into it, even on the most superficial levels, which brings us back to the they're there question.
I really think that the government doesn't know, and the problem is that with all the research into government activities for all these years, and the first sort of government secrecy theories were formed in the late 40s, but from that time on, from Kehoe's first book in 1950 on, The amount of information that we've gotten from the government in terms of the goals and motivations of this phenomenon has been pretty close to zero.
Well, yes.
Recently, Dr. Greer did something at the National Press Club.
Right.
You know about that, huh?
Yes.
And once again, what that is, is just people coming forward and saying that they've seen UFOs, and this has nothing to do with motivations and goals, you see.
Oh, no, of course not.
And I think that it's important that people understand that serious people in important positions are UFO witnesses and they have the ability to differentiate between a UFO and something that's conventional.
Absolutely.
And so, on that level.
But I believe that our government is aware of the kind of information that Dr. Greer's witnesses were talking about.
They have to be.
If they're not, then they're dysfunctional or not of any use to us.
Well, you know, I hope you're right.
I guess my point is that even if they do, we have never, we've never uncovered it, never found it, and it's never, the government, doing government research has not aided much in our understanding of the phenomenon itself.
So we just have to take the bull by the horns and do the research ourselves.
Well, not at the level you're talking about, certainly.
And I understand why that hasn't been engaged, and we're about a million miles from that.
But everybody wants to understand, I think, what is happening.
Why are they doing this, and what is the goal?
Do you have any thoughts, guesses?
Well, I do.
I do.
And now, once again, this is sort of jumping to a tremendous conclusion without Without proper preparation, because... That's alright.
We do that here all the time.
Well, everything sort of leads to this in my own research, and that is that the key is these little hybrid babies, because people describe them as fetuses being taken from them, and every once in a while they'll be shown, these little fetuses, and we see them as babies and other fetuses actually in tanks, and this is a very common uh... whether they're sort of suspended in a in a and i'm
nutrient liquid from what i can gather
uh... and we see them by the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds in this way
and uh...
uh... and even more at times uh... breeding farms
yeah breeding farm is essentially right and then and then people describe them
as babies you know where they have to hold the babies and feed the babies and
all that and then some and then we see them as toddlers and we see
them as youngsters as children and older children and adolescents and adults
and sometimes even older adults although with a tremendously decreasing
frequency of that But the fact is, though, that we see them throughout a lifespan, and what we've seen also is that they don't just grow up and just hang around, you know, smoking cigarettes and watching TV and all that.
We see them actively engaged in the abduction phenomenon as well.
Recently, in the thread, I talked a little bit about hybrid life.
What do hybrids do Saturday night and all that sort of stuff.
What we see is these sort of class or learning situations where hybrid children are learning things.
Older hybrids having tasks within the abduction scenario.
You're talking about hybrids that are here?
No, this is all on board the object.
Everything here is on board the object so far.
Why not believe then that they are here as well?
Why perhaps we would not see a drastic difference in a hybrid?
Anything is possible and my guess is that you probably would not be able to tell because What I found is that hybridization is not simply taking egg and sperm and putting them together and altering the zygote in some way.
There are stages of hybridization and they become increasingly more human while retaining key sort of alien qualities.
I know that this sounds totally insane, as I said it would.
No, it doesn't.
No, it doesn't, Doctor.
I mean, if it's going on, then everything else you've said would follow.
Right.
There's a certain logic that's built in here that all sort of inexorably points to.
It doesn't point to many other directions from what I can see.
But the point is that the hybrids, when they're young, they're extremely interested in Earth.
They're extremely interested in the flora and the fauna.
They're interested in four-legged animals, and they're interested in family structure, and they're interested in all sorts of things like that.
They're interested so much in Earth that you begin to suspect that there's a reason why they're interested in Earth.
And then I got lots of reports of aliens, of the hybrids and aliens, just saying that in the future we'll all be together and you'll be very happy and we're going to be happy and we're just going to love each other to death.
And in the future, you know, when we're here with you.
In other words, there's never any discussion of finishing the program and going away and saying thanks for your cooperation and we'll see you later and goodbye and good luck.
It's always, when discussions of the future take place, it's always here on Earth with you, and to me that's slightly unsettling, to tell you the truth.
I don't know what to make of all that, but I've come to think that this is why they're doing these hybrids, who in the later stage hybrids look really very human, quite human.
So the question is, well, are they walking around and working at the 7-Eleven and all that?
I used to say, oh, no, no, no, there's no evidence for that at all.
But now I've been hearing reports from people saying that they used to know a person and they think that this person was a hybrid, and of course my first answer is, well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But then they would go ahead and begin to describe various traits of this person and the oddities of it.
I think, God, I don't know, maybe he's on to something here, you know?
And I've heard so many of these stories that I'm thinking, well, I've moved to the position of I don't know, as opposed to no, I don't think so.
That's the best I can do.
But I can't say absolutely not anymore.
I've heard too many stories.
Well, whether they're there or here would depend on what the ultimate motivation is.
If you believe it to be what you just suggested, that is a complete integration.
It does appear that way and let me say Art that this is not a position that I revel in.
It's not something that I ever, ever could have imagined that I could have Not only taken, but even thought about.
It's just so inconceivable.
A more dramatic word would be invasion, which might not be inaccurate at all, huh?
Well, in a sense, you know, I think that the UFO phenomenon is an invasion.
I think that we've already been invaded.
I think we're looking at it right now.
It's not an occupation, but it is an invasion, I think.
And I think that this has been going on for maybe 100 years, maybe less, maybe a little bit more, but around that time.
And so this is, and I think that ultimately the occupation may be coming later.
They say that we will love it, that we will all be together and lovey-dovey and living happily ever after and all of that.
That's right.
I sense you don't quite buy that totally.
Well, they say, as one other kid told me, she said that they told her that everyone would know his place.
There's that.
When we take a look at alien society... You know their place.
That's like the third Reich.
That's exactly right.
When I look at alien society, I see a far more regimented society than ours is, a society that has a lot less individuality, that is much more involved with a group ethic, and a society that does not value privacy or anything like that.
I don't like that kind of society.
To me, that is an alien society.
And the problem here is that these beings have certain powers, certain sort of physical and mental abilities that we do not have.
And they all seem to have it, and so do the hybrids.
May I ask a dumb question?
There are no such thing as dumb questions.
There are only dumb answers.
How they would like it to be, and as you characterized how they would like to be, you were characterizing Japanese or Chinese culture.
Well, but they're still within a certain free ethic, that is to say, people have a freedom to do what they want to do, to a certain extent, maybe lesser, maybe more in those societies, and certainly more in Japan than maybe in China.
But the way I took this sentence, that this person who was extremely reliable in her memories, I must say... Even more dramatically, you took it, obviously.
Yeah.
Well, I took it as reflective of their own society and their own society just from what I can tell, anyway.
And you have to take everything I say with a boulder of salt, obviously.
But I just don't feel that this society is a society that any one of us would want to live in.
Now, the problem here is more than that.
The problem is that these beings have the ability to control us neurologically, and they can do it from a distance.
In other words, they can render people passive, and they must be able to do that so that they can conduct abductions.
Otherwise, you would scream and fear and throw rocks.
So, and absolutely everybody who is abducted goes directly into this passive state, and they do it before these beings even enter into their room.
They're already sort of into this world.
Is there any way for you to guess, Doctor, how many abductions are going on on an annual basis or over the last decade?
Is there any way you can speak to whether there have been more or fewer, or what's going on?
You know, there isn't any way to gauge that right now.
The closest we've ever been able to come is through that rover pole, flawed though it might have been, and what we did was we simply asked abductees a lot of questions about unusual experiences in their life and then we asked non-abductees a lot of questions about it usual experience
in our life and we we filtered out
those questions that abductees answered positively to in the highest numbers
and we have both questions thousand people randomly collected around the country now
and uh...
and we came up with with uh... fairly high number that we we will hold it
down uh... in a in a in a slightly arbitrary uh... way to only two percent of the american population but
and probably higher than that It's probably 5%, I would say, and maybe even higher than that.
And the problem is that we can't really know, because it's a clandestine phenomenon.
What we know is that tens of thousands of abductees have come forward and said things have happened to them.
But maybe 99.999% of all abductees would answer no to that, even though they're being abducted on a daily basis, for example.
Of the totality of the number of abductees, how many reported by percentage sexual Well, you see, the problem is that they know they've been abducted.
They might remember being on board a UFO and having missing time.
They might remember little snippets, bits and pieces of that.
But sexual contact, they're not necessarily going to remember, as they're not going to remember maybe 99% of everything else that's happened to them without competent investigation.
But now the question you're asking is it sexual or is it reproductive that you're looking at?
Is it sexual contact or is it reproductive?
Well, you know, I've heard both.
In other words, I've had people on my show that I consider very serious who have reported what they say is sexual contact, which results, I guess, in reproduction.
But then the opposite as well.
Those who report a sort of a clinical type of reproductive investigation.
Doctor, hold on.
We're at the top of the hour.
We'll be right back.
Doctor David M. Jacobs is my guest.
Associate Professor of History at Temple University.
And by now, you should be listening very carefully.
I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 29, 2001.
Everybody is looking for something.
Some of them want to use you.
Some of them want to get used by you.
Some of them want to abuse you.
Some of them want to be abused.
You know you can't fool me.
I've been loving you too long.
It started so easy.
You want to carry on.
You want to carry on.
I'm lost in love and I don't know much.
I think in love, I'm a man of a touch.
But I'm back on my feet, eager to be what you wanted.
Now I'm lost.
Lost in love.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 29th, 2001.
That would be me.
Good morning.
Dr. David M. Jacobs, Associate Professor of History at Temple University is my guest,
and he'll be right back.
Back now to Temple University's Dr. David Jacobs.
Dr. Jacobs, welcome back.
Thank you, Art.
You realize, of course, when you talk about this, and it's been a long time since you've been on my program, a fairly long time, and a lot of new listeners are out there, and they're going, oh my God, could this really be going on all around us?
Right, well let me just say in terms of the statistics I said before was that we don't really know how many people are actually abductees.
All we can say is how many of them have had experiences similar to those who are abductees.
So we can't really know that, but we do know that it is going on all around us because people all around us are reporting it all the time.
On my website I have a little questionnaire for people to fill out, which I unfortunately can't answer every one.
But I've gotten questionnaires from all around the world.
People have obviously had very unusual experiences that relate to abductions, from what I can tell.
Although one can never know that, obviously, without investigation.
And we know that this has happened.
I've worked with people who were born in Asia and Africa and, of course, Europe and Latin America and just everywhere.
And this is a global phenomenon, and of course that is consistent with what we've been talking about before, the ultimate purposes of this.
Would it be your guess that it's uniformly global, or that there are hot spots, or just hot reporting spots?
That's an excellent question.
I don't know whether it's uniformly global, because I don't know what's happening in Nepal, for example, or Tibet, or whatever.
Well, the concept of a hotspot really isn't a concept.
Every person who's from every town in the country has come rushing up to me to tell me that their town is a hotspot of UFO activity, and it's just everywhere.
Every town seems to be that way, at least what people tell me.
But what happens sometimes is that this is an intergenerational phenomenon.
That is to say, If a person is abducted, the chances are that their mother or their father was an abductee as well.
And unfortunately, it happens to the children.
So you get families and generations.
Why would you imagine that to be true?
Well, we don't know that exactly.
We just don't know why it's not completely random.
I personally think that there might be certain alterations that are made genetically which allow for abduction procedures to take place.
In other words, for telepathic communication to take place, that sort of thing, which I think might be the reason for it.
But I really don't know.
I don't have the evidence for that.
It could just be genetic follow-up.
It could be that.
It could be that.
But I think there might be a little bit more to it.
But the point is, though, that in some towns, which are more isolated, For example, in Brazil or whatever, there'll be a lot of UFO activity and people will start saying that they're seeing a lot of UFOs in this town in the middle of nowhere, you know?
And what has happened, my guess is, and once again I'm speculating here, but I think I might be right about this, I don't know, but is that if the abduction phenomenon is intergenerational, What happens is the people who grow up in this town tend to marry into each other.
They marry people down the block and then everybody eventually becomes sort of semi-related.
They're cousins and this and that and there's large, large, large extended families.
You get a very rapid growth of abduction activity in that town and abductees tend to see UFOs in extremely high numbers.
Preparation.
compared to non-NFTs.
And so that's where you get these little hot spots in the middle of nowhere that make no
sense otherwise.
Okay, well, preparation.
Are we talking about something that you believe is a many generations long project before
culmination?
Is there a culmination to all of this?
You know, I think there is.
And there's two sides to that question.
I guess the first side to the question is, when did this all start?
And the key to this is the intergenerational aspect of it.
We know that it did not start back in the year zero.
We know that because If it is intergenerational, it won't take very many generations through normal spreading out through the society.
For everybody to be an abductee.
In other words, it will spread.
So if it started in the year zero, by the year 100 or 200, everybody would have been an abductee, and we're not.
If it started in the 13th century, everybody would be an abductee.
If it started in the 14th or 15th or 16th or 17th century, probably everybody would be an abductee, but only a small percentage of the society is.
My guess is that it did start probably around the 1880s, 1890s.
eighteen eighty fifteen ninety and uh... and it's it will uh... you know it is that it is
that is that a total guess or uh...
is that when we
begin to have hints of reports that were made or
right well that's a nice kept of some sort uh... mischief worship wave took place starting in eighteen
ninety six eighteen ninety seven and and i know a lot of people feel that this
was just a sort of folklore
uh... spread so to speak But in my opinion, I think that this might in fact have been the first UFO wave, and people were seeing these things, and I think that this might have been the onset of it.
At least thereabouts, within that decade, anyway.
What do we think we know about In other words, are they from another space in current linear time?
Do you think they're dimensional beings of some sort?
What's your thinking these days about that?
Right.
Well, once again, that you can go directly to the evidence for, and that is when people ask them where they're from.
Yes.
And they do answer that every once in a while if they deign to answer, and I have to admit, most of the time they don't deign to answer.
But one would expect that the answers, if they were inter-dimensional, to be something like, we live here among you all the time.
We're from here, there, and everywhere.
There's some sort of dimension.
Well, we don't really get that.
Or if they were from time travelers, and there's built-in problems with time travelers, they'd say, we're from the future, or whatever.
But actually, they invariably will say, well, we're from another place, and they'll indicate a place in the sky.
Sometimes they'll point up, and they'll say, look in that direction, and look toward that star, and look down a little bit, and that's where we're from.
So they usually point to a point in space that would be measured with our own space-time continuum.
And they don't live in a parallel universe necessarily or another dimension or anything.
It shouldn't matter one way or the other.
The point is, it's not where they're from that's important, it's what they're doing here.
That's the important thing.
But the odd thing is that if this were psychological, well, we'd know where they were from and everybody would have an answer because that's the very first thing that That people think of, you know, when they're inventing an alien, they always say that the alien came up to them and said they came in peace, and they're from the planet Vortec, and their name is Nork, you know.
But we don't get names for aliens, although hybrids sometimes are given names by people, and we don't know where they're from after all this time.
Now, there might be a reason for that, and the reason is because there's an awful lot of stars up there in the sky.
More than I can even count.
Some of those stars have names and some of those stars have numbers.
Most don't.
I don't know whether they know what they're pointing to.
The star would have a name or a number for us.
My guess is it probably would have something, but would they even know that?
So it may be not possible, in a sense, for them to tell us where they're from in a way that we could understand.
I'm guessing on that.
Is it your sense that they want us and what they can reproductively achieve with us for some end, or they want our planet, or both?
Well, I think that the planet is the prize.
In other words, one of the things that we notice, you can take a look at what the evidence is, but you can also take a look at what people don't say.
And one of the things that one would expect them to say, and we should be getting, is quite a lot of interest in the political, social, and economic institutions of the society.
And what is an election, and what is a hanging chat, or anything like that.
But actually, we virtually never get any concern or interest in anything societal or political or economic or historical or anything like that.
I can understand a disinterest in our politics.
Well, that's true.
I mean, when you consider what their probable goals are, do they really care whether the president's tax package passes or not?
Probably not.
Well, they don't even ask what is a president.
They don't ask anything.
That's worth noting.
That's certainly worth noting.
Right.
And so my guess is that they don't have any concern that this is not in the agenda.
So then, metaphorically, instead of being taken to our leader, they're simply going to be our leaders.
Right.
I think that's what this means.
Now, once again, I'm extrapolating here, obviously.
But that their society, their rules, their regulations, their structure will be the one that is salient, not ours.
That's the one that's important to them.
Got it.
So what do we know about that?
In other words, what do we think we know about their social... Right.
Well, we see a hierarchy on board these objects.
There are order givers and order takers.
From what I can gather, the ones that are in charge are are what what what people sometimes call insect-like ones, or insectoids, or whatever.
Oh, great.
And they are very thin.
They don't have any sort of mouth, really, and they don't have any sort of nose or ear holes that the gray aliens seem to have, and they're taller as well.
And they actually will sometimes wear A sort of an odd kind of gown that's quite distinctive and quite striking that there's quite a lot of drawings about now that people don't know.
People don't know that this has been drawn before.
We'll draw it and say everything like this before.
Now look at that.
Oh my God, that's the standard one that we see on these other types of beings.
It's kind of like a queen bee.
Yeah, well, in a sense that's true.
It's sort of a special collar and all that.
But anyway, they're the center of activity in the Queen Bee style and then come, and I'm going to have to evade here about reptilians because I really don't know much about reptilians.
I don't see them much and I have a feeling that these are sort of offshoot things, but then come aliens, the taller aliens who do most of the specialized procedures for abductees and the smaller aliens who do more of the menial tasks.
And then come, I think, hybrids.
And then there's early, middle, and late-stage hybrids, which might include more alien, middle, and then more human.
And they have special tasks that they perform, too, depending on the degree of hybridization.
And then comes abductees.
And I think that's sort of the packing order that we see here.
But when you take a look at what happens during an abduction activity, it is all extremely systematized. There's no standing
around and wondering what to do next.
There's no joking. There's no down time. There's no taking a plunge in the pool in the back.
There's nothing like that. It's just strictly business, mister. And that's all we see.
Now, of course, we're looking at this from a specialized point of view. We're looking at it
from the view of the abductee, and that's the only time that they see them usually is in this
kind of procedure and so you have to extrapolate.
So that's not necessarily a comprehensive comment then on their social structure.
Right.
And it's hard to build a society from what you see inside a hospital, you know.
But yet, it can be done.
We can make a lot of kind of generalizations from what we see.
And we see a society that is telepathically oriented and I've actually written an article that's been published in a couple of different countries on the idea of what happens in a telepathic society.
And it's a society you wouldn't want to live in.
You want privacy.
You don't want telepathy.
You want to keep your thoughts to yourself, basically.
So in such a society, there would be no secrets?
It depends on the degree of telepathy and how open this society is, but certainly the whole concept of secrecy and privacy would be extremely different than the kind of society we have.
The group ethic is all important.
When we take a look at these aliens of any sort, they all pretty much look alike.
And they act alike, and they pretty much think alike, and you don't see rebels and that sort of stuff.
You know, it starts to sound an awful lot like communism.
In a sense, you know, people have compared it to that, or certainly, as you said, to the Third Reich before, and now those are obviously extrapolations, but you can't help but do that as you see As more and more people come forward with these descriptions of what's happening to them, and you realize, you know, that the other side of this is how these beings are acting.
Maybe this is a silly question, but has it ever occurred to you that saying what you're saying, if you're right, could perhaps be a really dangerous thing for you?
Well, I don't think so.
And I don't think so because, number one, I'm not an abductee, and my parents weren't, and my children aren't, and all that.
I wasn't imagining you to be abducted.
I was imagining you to cease living.
Well... In other words, if you're really on to this...
The last thing they would want is premature disclosure.
Right, and I think that the bottom line for them is interruption of the activity itself, interruption of the program.
That's where they draw the line.
I don't think they particularly care if people know it, as long as they don't stop it.
And you have to remember now, Art, that I'm on the fringe of the fringe, and what I'm saying here is completely insane for most scientists, for most academics, and for most people in general.
That's a good point.
How do you get away with it?
Right, and well, the point is that what I say and what other researchers say has almost no effect whatsoever on anybody or anything.
No, what I mean is how do you get away with it, academically?
Just as a matter of curiosity.
I mean, John Mack, you know what happened to him.
There is a price to pay in academics if you do this, and you'll notice that you introduced me as a social professor of history.
Yes.
I'm sure that the audience knows that there's three levels of professor.
There's assistant, there's associate, that means with tenure, and there's full, that means sort of with national recognition.
Right.
We're all professors.
Right.
But those are the stepping stones, and I will remain a social professor of history as long as I continue to do this work.
That's the price.
And so, even though I've published more than many of my colleagues who have already been promoted and all that, this is an area which is considered to be illegitimate, and so that's, you know, it takes a toll on you.
There is a toll to be exacted, so to speak.
But for me, it's worth it.
It's something that I made a decision about a long time ago, and that's just part of the deal.
But you don't expect, and you haven't been concerned about anything along the lines of the Mac Challenge?
There have been things at Temple which didn't go as far as Jones did, but... They started after you, huh?
There was that.
There was that, yes.
And once again, academics is just not the place for I don't want anybody to feel sorry for me.
think that i thought that that but but but but but but but but but but but but but but
but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but
but i don't want to i'm not talking about myself in that time you never want to
go for a commitment to the this is something that i've uh...
you know this is this is a decision that i've made in the choice that i've
elected to to to follow through the speaker there
and uh... you know then yet without without you there are who
you know it and it was you need uh... we need the your your sort of authority to be able to
speak out also we do is
supremely important We'll see you next week.
Well, you know, as I've said before, one doesn't have the opportunity to make a contribution in a field of enormous potential importance, or potentially enormous importance.
Very often, one's life, and I sort of Kind of went on that pathway and just continued on it against all reason and sanity, I guess, and it just continued through my entire adult life doing this.
All right, hold on, Doctor.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
Dr. David M. Jacobs is here, Associate Professor of History at Temple.
I'm Art Bell, and we're talking about the abduction phenomenon.
Many, many tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people have had it happen to them.
Maybe you're one of those.
If you are, you know what the doctor's talking about.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 29th, 2001.
Thanks for watching.
The moonlit wings reflect the stars that guide her toward salvation.
I stopped an old van along the way, hoping to find some old forgotten words or ancient melodies.
He turned to me as if to say, You've got so many people but you've got no soul and it's
taking you so long to find out you were wrong when you thought it held everything.
You used to think that it was so easy, you used to say that it was so easy, but you're trying, you're trying now.
I love you and it would be happy, just one more year and then you'd be happy, but you're crying, you're crying now.
I love you and it would be happy, just one more year and then you'd be happy, but you're crying, you're crying now.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 29th, 2001.
Are you listening to what Dr. Jacobs is saying?
Hmm?
Are you really listening to what he's saying?
What's underway right now?
On our planet?
With our people?
Our men and our women?
And toward what end?
Are you really listening?
All right, back now to Professor Jacobs.
Professor, somebody from Columbus, Ohio sent me a really interesting fast blast on my computer, and they're absolutely correct.
I mentioned communism earlier, and Stanley in Columbus says, you know, he's not talking about communism, he's talking about a hive.
Yeah, I think that there's something to that, because I do think that The closest that you can relate this to is a sort of hive mentality where you've got workers and other sort of specialized beings who are just working for one purpose, one goal essentially, and that's for the survival of the hive or for whatever the goal is these beings are working for.
I think that's a good analogy.
This subject is such that I really have become so, I don't know if the word is disenchanted with it, but I used to be so excited about studying it and when I was younger I was so thrilled with it and very much taken by the intellectual challenge that it posed.
And now I find it to be really difficult to deal with and it's scary and I don't like what I hear and I don't want people to tell me what they tell me.
You know, there's lots of problems with hypnosis obviously, and I've gone into that in the thread, and there's a wonderful essay on hypnosis in UFOs and Abductions, Challenging the Borders of Knowledge book from Kansas by Bud Hopkins.
One of the problems that I had when I first started doing hypnosis was that I was too credulous.
I was just sort of taking what people said at face value and I got caught on that very, very early on and realized the mistake I was making.
It was a wonderful thing to be caught so early on at this problem.
But the fact is though that, oh gosh, I sort of lost my thought right now.
Anyway, hypnosis is something that is very, very useful in studying this subject, and yet we have to be very careful with it, and everything that I've been saying is in large part based on hypnotically retrieved testimony, and so you have to take that into consideration.
But for most American people, to imagine a future in which we're part of a hive, and happy by, I guess, their standards, not ours, that's You know, that's what you have wars and die for.
Exactly right.
And, you know, I just don't like hearing those things.
And this is not a position I've adopted because I just think it's some sort of a wonderful triumph or something like that.
In fact, in hypnosis now, I've picked up my train of thought.
What I've done is I've tried to instill in people to see what will happen The idea that they shouldn't tell me anything bad, and I've taken at times for some people to have that said.
I'll say, I don't want you to tell me anything bad.
That's the last thing I say before we do a regression session, to see if it affects anything that they'll say later on.
Really?
Yeah, and the answer is no, it doesn't affect anything they say.
They couldn't care less what I say, what they're interested in is just remembering what happened to them, you know?
Right.
But I tried to, in some way, put some sort of checks on what I'm hearing, just to make sure that what I'm hearing is not coming out of me.
Yeah, I hear you.
What are the ethics of what you do?
I have somebody under, and they tell you of their abduction experience, and it is bad.
It is like most of the ones you hear.
When they're out of it, how do you deal with telling them what happened to them?
How frank and open are you with them?
Yeah, they remember everything, of course, that's happened to them.
And for them, what's bad is what happens to them physically, usually, personally and that sort of thing, the
intrusive quality of it and all that.
There is, as we sort of talked about a little bit before, a sexual or reproductive aspect
to it.
I deal with that right then and there in this session.
They need help getting over that and I will intervene right then and there and we'll talk
about it a little bit before they resume their kind of story.
The other things though, like what this all means and what it's pointing to, they generally
don't know that.
All they know is that they're standing in front of a class of little kids, maybe nine years old, all of them are hybrids, and the hybrids are asking them questions about Earth in some way, and they're answering the questions.
That's what they know.
In other words, it's hard for them to put it in a larger context.
I am fortunate enough to be able to hear lots and lots and lots of these kinds of accounts, and I can kind of put it together into a context that makes sense.
But most abductees don't know that.
All they know is what happened to them, so they don't understand that what they're saying is maybe ominous in some way.
But isn't it a little like being a rape counselor and counseling a victim and having to tell them that it's going to happen again and again?
Well, most of them know that it's already happened many times in the course of their life.
They've already generally outlined a whole series of odd experiences in their life that they want to look at.
Maybe it's related, maybe it isn't, but they know that they've had a whole lot of odd things.
However you're right, it is like being a rape counselor to a certain extent.
Everybody who does this kind of work becomes a therapist.
I was fortunate enough to work with a psychologist on this for a number of years beforehand.
You are a therapist.
You have to say the right thing at the right time right now.
You can't let things slide.
You've got to help people over the difficult areas that they encounter.
You have to follow up and keep in touch with them.
That's what I do.
In other words, I take somebody on.
That means a certain amount of emotional output on my part and time and all that.
Oh, I'm sure.
They can see me for as many times as they want.
It's up to them usually.
Of course, I don't charge for anything that I do.
I know, I know.
Let me ask you this, Doctor.
I'm trying to think as they would think, and before they leave your office, they're going to want to know if it can be stopped, if it can be slowed down.
I'm sure that's what they ask about, and you said there are some, at least, heart measures that can be taken.
What are those?
Right, and the answer is that They do want to know that, but I tell them usually right
away that what I'll do with them is we'll work for a form of intellectual and emotional
control over the subject so that they can get their lives back in order, but I can't
give them physical control.
I can't stop it from happening.
Having said that, as you know from previous conversations, we've had a whole heck of a
lot of people who've slept on their knees to watch a fly above a video camera that's
on SLP with a T-160 tape in it that will run for eight straight hours.
And as long as that camera is on, and as long as everything is working properly, they will not be abducted.
But that doesn't mean that they won't get up at three o'clock in the morning and walk towards the camera, as I have tapes showing them doing, and turning it off.
Really?
Right, and it doesn't mean that they won't get up at 3 o'clock in the morning or whatever it is, now this is at night time stuff anyway, and walk out of the room.
Oh, my.
Or just not turn it on.
Decide, oh, I don't need that camera tonight.
What do I need that for?
Oh, I'll be fine.
I just won't turn it on.
Followed by an event.
Of course.
And it doesn't mean that they're not going to be abducted during the day, or watching television earlier that evening when there is no video camera trained on them.
So it's extremely limited but at the same time it gives them a sense of protection at least.
It gives them a sense of some sort of control no matter how small and it allows them to sleep easier and it gives them a more peaceful feeling in a sense.
Alright, that's the macrocosm of the single patient and what about The bigger picture, doctor.
I mean, if what you're saying is true, there's an invasion underway right now.
I think that's a UFO phenomenon, right?
That's what we're looking at, right?
Yes, but I mean with a specific intent that you've described, which is going to turn us into a social hive.
Now, a lot of us aren't real happy about that concept, and the question would be, how do we as a planet, as a people, I mean, what do you counsel about this?
Shouldn't we be at war?
You know, this is such a difficult area.
Number one, I think that there's too much water under the bridge.
I really don't think that there's much we can do about it now.
Maybe 50 years ago, or earlier, we might have been able to... You're saying it might be too late.
Well, the problem here is that it's already advanced through the generations of the 20th century.
We don't know who 99% of abductees are, so we really don't know where the front lines are, so to speak.
And the other thing is that you're dealing with a technologically advanced civilization, and that is necessarily technologically advanced, if they can get here from there.
And it's not just that it's technologically advanced.
And the key problem here, I think, is that it is uh... neurologically advanced that is that they can control
us and we cannot control them
and these it's over a triple whammy in a sentence so i don't think there's a whole heck of a lot we can do
about it but the problem here is is that the scientific community
uh... just had such that that aversion to this and so we we haven't had a a whole lot of uh... of of people putting
their heads together to try to figure out if there is something that can be
You know, Professor, what you're saying tonight has a lot, potentially, in common with Zacharias Sitchin, doesn't it?
Well, you know, Sitchin, of course, thinks that there was alien contact way back when.
That we were gold miners, actually.
Yeah.
Slaves?
Hive-type civilization?
You know, it's something that I don't know can ever be proven or looked at.
He might be right, of course.
There's always that possibility.
But I mean, the social structure that he described, that we were originally, would fit into what you've described socially, wouldn't it?
In other words, the hive-type thing.
Yeah, I guess it would.
This is going to be, I think, I think what we're looking at here is a very, very alien society.
For example, with telepathy, and telepathy, and I do have this article that I'm submitting to IUR, International UFO Reporter, about this, if they'll run it, which they may not, because it may not be appropriate for them, but with telepathy, you have a situation where you don't have a verbal society And therefore, even when you look at aliens, you don't see, for example, any kind of facial expression to give you a hint of the exact, for example, you can say something to somebody and raise an eyebrow and they know that you're saying, that you don't mean it, that you're saying the exact opposite.
Absolutely.
Nothing like that exists in this kind of a society, at least in terms of expressiveness.
We don't see body language and we see a very restricted range of emotions.
As a result of that and this restricted range of emotions, the whole world of art and music and literature and color and emotions is very, very different than what we have.
The only thing that we can relate to that they have is this sort of extreme logical mentality For them, in other words, they have science, and 2 plus 2 equals 4 no matter where you are, and they have advanced science, and therefore they can think logically, and they can do it really, really, really well.
And that's the major touch point.
After that, all bets are off in the kind of society that they live in.
It's really not human.
It's really not human.
When you think about what makes us human, what makes us different from other animals,
one of the things is our ability to enjoy, our ability to have this expansive emotional
expression that gives us all the arts and all the enjoyment and the recreation and everything
that everybody loves that we don't necessarily see within this kind of society that these
beings represent.
what we see is is a society of work society of progress a society of logic and science and that's
it so now i may be wrong about that obviously but i think that
they that you can really build a substantial case for that just to
the idea of restricted emotional range and telepathy
well then are you saying we might as well socially you're sort of saying we might as
well relax and enjoy it huh
You know, I don't know what to do about it in the future.
That might be as good an advice as any.
I really don't know.
I'm at a loss as to say this is what we should do.
You know, I've got the answer here.
This is what we...
We immediately must, you know, summon the President and the United Nations.
I don't know if any of that is worth doing.
I suppose it is.
I suppose that it's better to know than not to know.
And I suppose it's better to try to maintain the good aspects of human civilization rather than to give them up.
Well, I certainly wouldn't want to go silently into that alien night you've just described.
Well, neither would I. That's for sure.
Now, obviously, I'm speculating here, and I could be completely off base on this, but if you read the threads, you'll see that there is a certain kind of inexorable logic that leads to this, and it's not a place that I enjoyed going to.
Why do you think that other researchers, in larger numbers, have not come to some of the same conclusions There are so many advocates of warm and fuzzy.
Why do you think that is?
I think that I've been fortunate in that I've been able to give a tremendous amount of time and energy to this.
I've made this sort of my work.
My teaching schedule is such that I can spend several days at home doing work.
I've been able to work with people over a long period of time.
I still see people who I saw 15 years ago.
I've been able to watch what's happened to them over a long course of time.
I've been able to dig very, very deeply and very minutely into people's experiences.
I've had that luxury.
A lot of people just can't do that.
Here's a question for you, Doctor.
Do you think that if your conclusions had been less controversial about the nature of the entire phenomena, That you wouldn't have been challenged as academically as you have been.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think you're absolutely right.
When Secret Life came out, which was a very non-committal book about what people, when people say they're abducted, what do they actually say?
What happens to them?
And I sort of had this kind of matrix, which put everything into a kind of a chronological and typographical sense.
It was sort of okay.
I maintained a sort of low profile, but when the threat came out, people really got fairly worked up over that.
Yes.
Yes, understandably.
Right.
Yeah, well, absolutely.
So if there's such a thing as traditional ufology, that's where you sort of went off the track.
Well, what I did was I followed the evidence and I speculated more in the threat than I did in Secret Life.
But Secret Life, you can see the same thing in that book.
If you look in that book, you'll see the logical aspects of it that point to everything in the threat.
How old are you now?
Well, I'm reaching the ripe old age of 59 in August.
I'm 58 right now, but I'll be 59 in August.
I'm about to be 56.
And what I've noted is, and maybe this is true of you, as you get older, you're less inclined to serve stuff up softly.
You're more inclined to want to tell the brutal truth and care less about it.
Well, to a certain extent that went into it.
Maybe it's hubris or ego or vanity.
I don't know.
But I felt that I could advance the first sort of evidence-driven idea or hypothesis about what this is about that has yet been advanced.
Now, you've got to remember, and it's important for everybody in the audience to keep this in the absolute forefront of their temporal lobes, and that is that this is human memory Recovered through hypnosis administered by amateurs.
You've got to keep that in mind.
This is as weak an evidentiary body as one can have.
It doesn't get much worse than this.
At the same time, we have tremendous amounts of it.
Even the weakness of it can be controlled for to a certain extent.
A lot of the accounts are done without hypnosis.
And a lot of the people who I work with have PhDs and MDs and are well aware of all the problems of testimony themselves.
Alright, on that note, hold on doctor, we'll be right back.
As a matter of fact, we may talk with some abductees.
If you're an abductee, try to get through to us in this next hour.
That's what we're gonna be looking for.
People who have experienced what Dr. Jacobs is talking about.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 29th, 2001.
On a down day away Jenny was sweet
She always smiled for people She was a good girl
She was a good girl Oh, tonight is the one
City lights, painted girls In the day, nothing matters
In the night, time is matter In the light, no control
Through the wall, something's breaking Where in life, has no walking
Down the street, heartbeats all move You take my time, you take my self-control
You got me living only for the night Before the morning comes, the story's told
You take my time, you take my self-control Another night, another day goes by
I never stop myself to wonder why You have me to forget to play my role
You take my time, you take my self-control Premier Radio Network presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's program originally aired May 29th, 2001.
Ah, that would be me.
And I guess you two, um... The Will to Fight.
You know, that's really what we're talking about, is the will to fight.
I wonder if we have it.
Huh.
If you've been listening for the last two hours, then you understand what I mean about the will to fight.
My guest is Dr. David M. Jacobs, and I think that really is the central question.
If this is true, do we have the will to fight?
We're going to be taking calls from abductees only this hour.
If you're an abductee, go ahead and dial.
Otherwise, just sit back and listen.
In about an hour, we'll be into open lines.
but right now abductees once again uh... doctor david
and jacobs And, Doctor, welcome back.
Good to have you back.
Thank you, Art.
The will to fight, I mean, that really is the question.
If what you're saying becomes general knowledge, then it's going to come down to that, whether we have the will to fight, and I suppose also whether we even have the ability to fight.
Well, I think that's it, yeah.
Do we have the ability to resist what's happening?
And we certainly don't right now, it seems to me.
I mean, it's hard enough for us to stop individual abductions, and I know that there have been people who claim that they can and all that, but the problem is that most people, when they have abduction experiences, don't even know it themselves, so they don't know what's happened to them, and it's hard for them to say that they've stopped something.
If a highly placed U.S.
military source came to you and said, Doctor, your research is, we're going to tell you right on the money, we've known about this For some time, it is indeed, as you wrote in the book entitled the same thing, a threat to our national security, to world security.
What can you tell us about how to combat this?
What would you say to them?
Right, well, I would say I don't have the foggiest notion.
I would say I really don't know how to combat it.
I'm despairing of that.
Of course, I don't really think in those terms of combating and fighting and all that.
What I think in terms of is just figuring out what the heck is going on.
But you've already figured out a lot of that, I mean, in terms of what's happening.
Well, I'm waiting for other people to come forward and sort of verify and validate what I found.
It might be a long wait.
I think I've done a certain amount of it, and I think that there are people who are specialists in this sort of resistance of people in the government, perhaps, or people in the psychological or psychiatric community, who might be able to figure out some ways.
But I think that the first thing that we ought to do is get together large numbers of people who can think very systematically about this and in concert.
And come up with some sort of a plan, no matter how small, and see if it's workable.
But, you know, all this is just, I mean, this is not going to happen probably in my lifetime.
It's unthinkable at this point.
I mean, it's something that, what I'm saying is simply totally crazy, and every right-thinking person out there should be thinking that, even as I say it.
I mean, I'm sort of a forward point, I think.
You're really interesting to listen to.
I mean, on the one hand, very self-deprecating all the time here.
I'm crazy.
Not I'm crazy, it's crazy.
It's crazy to say this, but you obviously firmly believe it.
Well, I do, and I think that, let's put it this way, I'm persuaded by the evidence.
I think that the evidence is fairly strong for what I've found, and I haven't found anything to go back on.
In other words, in Secret Life, which came out in 1992, it's been nine years since that book came out.
We've learned an awful lot since that book came out.
And I look at that book and I say, you know, that's a pretty good book.
There's a few things I changed in that book, but not much else.
In other words, my own research and the research of others have not found much of anything that would take that book in a very different direction.
In other words, it's held up.
What you thought and wrote about then holds up today.
Yeah, and I think that that's going to happen with the threat also, although it's a lot more speculative and therefore I'm a lot more vulnerable and I might be a lot wronger about certain aspects of it, but I feel that the people who I've worked with and my own controls that I've had over the questions that I've asked and the answers that I've accepted uh... uh... worked or have worked with a certain solidity
that i but i feel comfortable with
even though i i'm fully realize how how how crazy it is not going to do it how how crazy it sounds
maybe my lines are full of what the people uh... who have been
abducted waiting to talk to you
let me ask you this how many
people that claim abduction do you think in reality uh...
have been abducted How many are just suffering from a psychological go-along type thing?
You know, I haven't found a whole lot of people who feel that they're abductees and who aren't.
I have found some.
That does happen once in a while, but We know it.
As John Mack says, this is a club that nobody wants to belong to.
I think he's right about that.
I think most people really are concerned about what has happened to them.
Most people don't immediately think, oh my God, I've been abducted.
They just know that there have been a whole series of odd things happening in their life.
They've been on a fishing expedition trying to figure out what it is.
It turns out to be this, even against their better judgment in a sense.
And so, there's not a whole lot of wannabes.
Now, there probably are out there, and maybe I just haven't encountered them because I screen other people pretty carefully before I see them.
How do you screen them?
Well, they fill out a questionnaire, and if they ultimately get through to me, I have them jump through all sorts of hoops and hurdles before they get to me.
I talk with them usually for a couple of hours before they actually enter into my office.
And I normally can tell pretty much whether this is a substantial person or whether this person has got serious mental problems.
I try not to go forward with people like that because we don't know how they're going to handle things that might have happened to them.
And they don't make the best evidence.
And they don't make any evidence whatsoever, right, obviously.
That does not mean that some people who are not disturbed may not be abducted.
I worked with one woman who became floridly schizophrenic who had been hospitalized before I saw her.
This was years ago when I was just beginning.
We had a whole bunch of sessions and she progressively got worse and wound up in the hospital again.
Her hallucinations and her fantasies, oddly enough, were not about the abduction phenomenon.
Other things in her life, people plotting against her and this and that, interestingly enough.
And, of course, I didn't use any of her material or anything.
Doesn't mean it didn't happen to her.
No, she was obviously an abductee, and the odd thing was, what she described was pretty much the same thing as everybody else described, you know, and she was genuinely concerned about it.
Alright, so then it's possible that, of that group, some really are abductees.
Yeah, yeah.
But it doesn't matter.
It's also possible, doctor, it's also possible, is it not, sorry to interrupt you, that the abduction process itself begins to bring on the kind of psychological trauma that we're talking about here.
Well, I think that that is true.
I think that people have suffered silently in their lives.
Exactly.
Thinking that they are totally insane, and I think that people who might have had those sort of proclivities, who might have had I think the main mental problem that we've seen with this is depression.
have been functional throughout their lives might have been pushed over the brink by this
phenomenon.
That makes sense.
But I don't think it causes...
I think the main mental problem that we've seen with this is depression.
It causes sustained depression, a depression that often times lifts after the people learn
what's happening to them and get a control over it emotionally.
Remarkable.
All right.
A lot of people on the line now.
Let's see what we've got.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Jacobs.
Hello.
This is Chris.
Chris, you're going to have to yell at us.
You're not too loud.
This is Chris.
Right.
Where are you, Chris?
North Carolina.
Okay.
Dr. Jacobs, in your book, you stated that there was an individual who one time You wanted to tell under a deep regression hypnosis, and they refused to tell you things, and you respect that, and they were fearful, but you didn't press it in your book about whether that person was threatened or not to keep quiet.
You just moved on through the book and skipped those kind of people.
Well, that's happened a couple of times.
I once had a session arranged for one person, I mean for a first session with a person.
We had talked for a long period of time and everything was set up.
She came with a friend of hers and after about two minutes she just decided, no, no, no, she wasn't going to tell me this stuff.
She's not supposed to tell me this stuff.
She got up and we never did do a session.
And then I had another guy who I did ten sessions with and on the eleventh session, I guess it was, we were doing a regression and he was pretty much used to it and pretty much into it and all that.
And he just bolted up right and said, I'm not supposed to tell you this.
Really?
And he got up, he mailed me all his tapes that I had given him back to me.
He came to several abduct-to-get-togethers that I have, and then he sort of moved out of the area.
He never left the forwarding address, and that was that.
We had ten sessions together beforehand.
Then I've had another woman who was told in no uncertain terms that what she was doing was wrong by telling me that she shouldn't be doing this.
I wrote this part up in the book.
They told her that what she was doing was she was endangering future generations.
By going to a gynecologist, by seeing me and that sort of stuff.
In other words, she was hurting their program in some way, but they tried to instill a certain amount of guilt in her as opposed to just warning her or anything like that.
I've had other people who say, I'm seeing Dave Jacobs and I'm telling him everything and he knows all about you and their answer is, you know, what do they care?
There is no answer.
They couldn't care less.
Dr. Jacobs?
Yes.
In 1965, around the end of the World's Fair, I had a man who came to me who said he was me from the future, or more like not from the future, more like, uh, the past future of, uh, past Earth of, uh, what do they call it, uh, alternate universe?
Uh-huh.
He said he was from a gray ship, and he said that, uh, He was me.
My father tried to call the police many a time, and I've seen him often on through the years.
And in 1965, we were in Salisbury Park, walking across the field, and he was talking about a Dr. Jacobs and a book called The Threat.
Now, this was 1965, and he says this book was never written around until years later.
He said, in the 1990s, you're going to see a lot of books about the grays.
Everything before that, he says, is trash, basically.
Well, he's certainly right about that.
Yeah, in other words, there it is, holding up your concept that this is all a fairly recent phenomenon.
Relatively recent phenomenon.
Me, you mean?
Yes, yes, yes.
Well, yes, now I must say I've never heard anything like that, and that person certainly had abilities that I don't have, but certainly there's been a lot of really excellent work done.
on abductions that came before me.
I mean, there was, you know, Bud Hopkins' Missing Time and Intruders and An Interrupted Journey by John Fuller and a whole bunch of other really excellent works.
I mean, you can see our advancement of knowledge of this subject incrementally through the years, just like any other subject, as more and more evidence accrues and more and more ideas come out of that, you know.
Yes, but you have suggested that really this has not been going on since the year zero.
In fact, it may be Fairly recent.
Right, yes, and you do that just by going back through the generations, and you realize that it had to start at a certain point.
It's like taking a look at the Big Bang, you know, and you can see all the planets, all the stars flying apart, rather, and you know that they came from a central point at one time, because they're all sort of flying from some direction, and that's the way the abduction phenomenon is, intergenerationally.
And if you go much past the mid-19th century, it starts not to make any sense then, because numbers don't add up.
It's just a simple matter of arithmetic in terms of how many epithets there would be if you start out with an X number of people in a population over the generations, and it's intergenerational, and X number of people are born.
You can just work out the math, and it doesn't come out to very long.
What about the people who would say, You're beginning to get all of this now, because we have mass communications, we have television, we have the X-Files, we have movies, we have an injection psychologically of the whole alien phenomena thing, and abduction, and all the rest of it, and so people know what to tell you.
Well, they know more, I think, what to think about their own experiences, what to think about what's happened to them.
But you know, it's like the UFO phenomenon in general.
After Kenneth Arnold had his sightings of UFOs, and then there were other sightings in 1947, then what do you do with all the rest of the sightings from 1947 on, if people know what they look like?
And then they describe them again.
You see what I mean?
You just have to sort of factor that in, that there is this sort of general knowledge about the subject, and maybe they are picking it up.
But I'll tell you, when people come to me, They are wringing their hands with worry over two things.
Number one, they don't want to be led.
They don't want the hypnotist to lead them.
They all know about leading and that they don't want to be led.
That's the first thing they'll tell you.
And the second thing that they're worried about is they don't want to pick up things in the society and parrot them back to me as if it happened to them.
Most people are extremely sensitive to that.
They know it.
And they're very careful about their own memories, and they're careful about what they think might have happened or might not have happened to them, and they'll discuss it.
Alright, what is the fact that a few moments ago you said that a number of patients have just abruptly got up, said, I shouldn't be talking about this, and left, and you've never seen them again?
Right, I've had a few of them.
Alright, but if you've had those, and then you have a lot who don't seem to care, or who apparently were not instructed to keep silent, what does that suggest about the phenomenon itself?
Well, I think that, once again, that most people can go ahead and just describe whatever's happening to them, and these beings don't particularly care.
The bottom line for them is, as long as it does not interfere with the program, for them, continuing the program is the bottom line.
That's where the line is drawn.
That one's figured.
Of course, very quickly, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Jacobs.
Hello.
Hello, Art.
Yes, Dave.
Yeah, this is George.
Yes, George.
Yeah, I wanted to ask Dr. Jacobs, has anyone ever told you that I was, listen, probably it was the late 50s, early 60s, I had the same dream go on for a while.
It was like I was frozen, this little gray guy, you know, was swinging by my feet and all of a sudden I could see the stars and I got shot out into space, you know?
For about six years, the same thing would go on.
I mean, the G-forces were just like, and I was just like paralyzed.
Couldn't even scream or nothing.
I'm just looking up, you know?
I'm flat on my back, and I'm getting like swung around.
I kept thinking it was swinging on my feet or something.
And this went on for years?
Yeah, for about six years.
I mean, I'm 47 now.
I still remember this thing like, you know?
And it's like, you know?
You know, I couldn't scream or nothing.
This thing just had me scared to death, you know?
I talked about this to somebody after listening to the art show, like Got a Hold of Roger and some other people.
You mean Dr. Lear?
Yeah.
And he thought that I was... I could be... I was telling him, you know, I always seem like I'm always... Like I'm always being watched or something.
Or, you know, I go out there, you know, the street lights are always going off and stuff.
And I kept seeing like the little uh... off to the side of fears you know and i have seen the
big spirit come down on the you know
close to the house here what you call a spirit alright uh...
you know that that that's interesting doctor uh... which a lot of interesting
things yeah i'd be he said spirit would would people are who are religious tend to interpret
their experiences like it
Exactly, and that's what you hear with older generations.
They tended to interpret their experiences more religiously than the younger generation.
Because the younger generations have alternatives.
Talk about the great deception.
Alright, hold on doctor.
The invasion well underway?
I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 29th, 2001.
AMC News at 8.
Coast to Coast.
Ahhhhh...
And in the strings I move the ear When the trees are cround by leaves
And in the springtime of the year, when the trees are crowned with leaves
When the ocean took an aperture new And rise in ribbons clear
When the ash and oak and the birch and yew are dressed in ribbons fair
When hours come, the breathless moon in the blue veil of the night
The shadows of the trees appear amidst the lantern light Weep and weep over the night, the summertime of the day
As we turn in love again, we weep again You who are cut down to the shady groves, you're summoned
by shadows, say I'm tired of waiting on the sheltered arms in the springtime
of the year You're listening to Ark Bell, somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coaster Coast AM from May 29th, 2001.
I'll tell you this, we're having something really weird go on with our lines here.
I wonder if it relates in any way to the subject of the discussion.
Really strange.
Punches, crashes, clicks.
I've never heard anything like it on the phone lines.
Weird.
Anyway, Dr. Jacobs is here.
Maybe that does have something to do with it, and we're talking to abductees, and about the subject of abduction, and it's not a ride you necessarily want to take.
We'll get back to Dr. Jacobs and your calls in a moment.
Dr. Jacobs, if somebody were to be stumbling into our program tonight, aside from what they've heard so far,
They're probably scared out of their minds if they're believing this and if they think they've had an experience themselves.
You have four books.
What would you start them out on?
Well, probably Secret Life, actually.
The new one, UFOs and Abductions, Is a good sort of primer in what we know about certain areas.
In other words, there's a wonderful article in there by Michael Swords about the early, early Air Force's take on the subject.
And it turns out that they were much more involved with thinking this was extraterrestrial than we had thought before.
And as I said, there's an excellent article by Hopkins on hypnosis.
And I've done a little piece about the history of the abduction controversy in the United States.
And there's some arguments back and forth between people in there and some articles about science.
But if they want to know about the abduction phenomenon, I would start with secret life, probably, and then go on to the threat, which sort of extends our knowledge.
And brings it up to date.
All right.
Good.
We've got lots of calls here.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Jacobs.
Where are you, please?
Are you talking to me?
Yes, ma'am.
Where are you?
I'm in Wilmington, North Carolina.
Okay.
He said something about recording on video.
Yes.
And I want to tell him something.
I did that for my son.
It made him feel better.
And so I did it every night.
I would also sometimes Look at the video during the day in a fast forward motion.
Right, right.
I'm nervous.
I'm 51 years old and I'm nervous.
Oh, that's alright.
Don't worry about it.
I noticed that he would get up and turn it off like Dr. Jacobs says.
And sometimes it was like the timing was off.
And I put a big cafeteria clock over his bed.
Not running on power.
Old fashioned clock like you used to have in the cafeteria.
Good, good.
I went on and the next day I looked at the video and everything seemed cool.
I was always looking to catch the mom video.
And then another time I had some time so I sat down and popped in the video and started looking at it fast forward.
And you can't help but see that big clock and you're watching the video and watching the video and it comes to like 5 in the morning and then you keep going and it's like 10 minutes after.
And I was like, wait a minute, it's 5 minutes to 3 in the morning.
And I'm like, whoa!
So I stopped it, rewound, played it in normal speed, and there was five minutes until three in the morning.
And at ten minutes after three in the morning, it was five minutes until three in the morning.
Wow!
Well, were you looking at the previous night's clock?
Yes, it was.
So it was the night of the day that I was looking at it.
Right, but sometimes if you're seeing the same tape in the same way over and over again, and if that tape is turned off, you'll suddenly just switch to what was taped the previous night.
And there might be a gap of ten minutes difference or so.
This was a fresh tape.
Oh, I see.
I have a friend that works, we were in Charlotte then, and he worked with a big security firm and had all the expertise for this stuff.
He does even government jobs before Bragg and all.
He took the video.
I said, check this.
See if somebody's tampered with it.
And?
Figured it had been tampered with.
And he said, no.
And I said, can you copy it?
And he said, well, yes, because it was fresh tape.
I had asked him to copy tapes before, and if they weren't fresh, been recorded over and over, he couldn't get a good copy.
So this one was fresh.
Well, you know, we do get these sort of anomalies.
I have a tape of a flash of light in a woman's room.
This is a woman living in an apartment, which wakes her up.
You see her getting up and looking around, what was that?
In other words, you could tell it wasn't a tape anomaly, something on the tape itself.
That's what this lady is saying, that it was five of and then it was ten after.
Right, now normally when we see lapses in time like that, I must say it's usually longer.
It's usually an hour and a half, two hours, sometimes three hours.
So that makes me just a little bit wary.
It's just a weird one.
It is weird, but when your son gets up and turns it off, does he remember that in the morning?
Oh, he's like me.
They can't seem to control him.
And so both of us, all our lives, have remembered stuff.
I worked with Bud Hopkins for about four years in 1989 until shortly before we moved to Wilmington.
Oh, really?
And a very nice person helped me a great deal to understand.
He didn't have the answers, which is what I wanted, but he helped me to know that there were other people That it was happening to, that I wasn't crazy.
That was the biggest deal.
My husband was asking me to marry him on a beach in Georgia.
I was scared to tell him about the little guys.
I'm standing there thinking I should and couldn't.
He found out later.
That's really interesting.
Doctor, how do Most people handle this with a potential mate.
I mean, if this has been going on all their life, it's going to impact their mate.
You know, you bring up a really, really, excuse me, important point.
And that is, how do you tell a prospective spouse or even, you know, friends and that sort of thing?
And everybody has to handle this differently.
And, you know, if you tell somebody who's just asking you to be married, Well, there's a problem here.
The problem is that little people from another planet are coming and kidnapping me on a daily basis.
That might be slightly off-putting.
Just slightly?
Yes, and so you have to be very careful and very discreet, and I have a woman who I worked with for a very long time who is getting married next month, and she has decided not to tell her new husband.
Oh my.
And there's another woman who actually lives in Ohio who I've talked with for a number of years who also never told her husband about what's going on.
Although he knows odd things are happening because he sees things every once in a while and all that.
And then other people tell their husbands and wives and sometimes their spouses are supportive and sometimes they're not.
And it's a real problem.
This is part of the hidden life of abductees.
All these problems of relationships when people find out about it and supposing your husband or your wife believes it and thinks it's really happening.
What that can do is that can drive a wedge in a relationship as well because the person becomes frightened to be around the abductee and doesn't want to sleep in the same bed with him or her.
There are all these other kinds of problems that abductees have that most people don't know about.
Not only that, but there's even more practical problems.
If there's a lot of activity, there's just a problem with sleep deprivation, of getting up in the morning and not being able to function well.
So, Secret Life really was a good title, huh?
It worked on a lot of levels, although I didn't talk too much about all that.
But abductees do have these other problems.
And, of course, there's the problem of children and families and trying to protect them.
And this woman was really doing the right thing by setting up the camera.
It's completely passive, and there's no harm done, and it does give you that feeling of protection.
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Jacobs.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi.
Where are you?
This is Joe in Cocoa, Florida.
Hi, Joe.
I've got a question for Dr. Jacobs.
I'm an abduction researcher with CE4 Research Group, and we have, right now, over 100 documented cases where we've been able to help these abductees, experiencers, I'm so glad you said that.
And here's why, Dr. Jacobs.
through their faith and name and authority of Jesus Christ.
We offer hope for these experiences.
I wonder if there is any way that you can offer hope.
I'm so glad you said that.
And here's why, Dr. Jacobs.
A few days ago on the show, maybe a week, I actually had an exorcist on here.
And exorcists are famous for saying, Be gone in the name of Jesus.
Right?
Something like that.
And I said at the time, you know, I've talked to a lot of abductees, and they've tried that, and most of the stories I've ever heard, it didn't have one bit of effect on the entities.
Let's stick with that name for a second.
What do you say?
Well, first of all, it does sort of leave out of the cold all the Jewish abductees and Hindu and Muslim abductees.
I guess they don't have the ability to do that.
Well, they can say Allah says be gone or something, but it just doesn't seem to work.
Is it your experience?
It is my experience that it has never worked enough without trying.
I've worked with several people who are ministers.
I'm working right now with a woman who is a member of a nun's order.
That's all I do is pray.
I mean, they're heavily into praying, obviously, and they are just abducted as many times as anybody else.
Now, the problem here is this.
Most people don't know when experiences have happened to them, and what happens is, If they might remember something, they'll see beings in the room and they'll get up and they'll yell something out, which might be religious in nature or some sort of incantation that they've decided they're going to say if they saw these beings.
And sure enough, the beings leave.
And they've stopped the abduction, but what they don't realize is that the abduction has already occurred and they're waking up or remembering it just in the last few seconds of it.
Oh my.
So it's already over.
It's already over, right?
And they're thinking, well, I've stopped it, you know, and you get quite a lot of that.
But most of the time, people don't even know when it's happening, and then they say, it hasn't been happening, and in fact, if you examine it very closely, it has been happening.
So I wish, I mean, obviously that would be one of the very first things that people tried many years ago, was just reasoning, or bargaining, or praying, or whatever.
You know, Doctor, if I did what that lady did, And I suspected, for example, something was happening to my wife or child and put a clock in there.
What a brilliant idea.
And then ran a VCR with it.
And I saw on a fresh tape the kind of jump she said she saw.
Or a longer one.
I would have to sit down.
I don't know what I'd do.
I really don't know what I'd do.
I don't know what avenues there would be.
Right.
And the only thing you can do is How could you not obsess on that?
Well, you have to remember that it's been happening to people since they were born.
It's a lifelong thing.
It's been with them all through their lives.
What I try to do with people is get them to the point where they don't obsess on the subject.
I know it sounds crazy.
How could you not obsess on that?
You have to remember that it's been happening to people since they were born.
It's a lifelong thing.
It's been with them all through their lives.
It's part of their lives in an odd way.
They have been able to lead a fairly normal life most of the time with it happening.
What ultimately drives them to find out is some triggering event that they begin to think
about all the time and they are driven to find out what's been going on.
And once they learn about it and they learn more and more and more and they sort of figure out, they realize, listen, I only have one life to live.
This is it, you know.
And they can abduct me for two hours every week or whenever they want, but all the rest of that time is mine and I'm going to live it to the fullest and I'm just not going to grant them the power over me that they don't care about in the first place.
I don't know if that's good enough for a lot of people listening to this whole thing.
that I've won as good a victory as we're going to get.
As good as we're going to get?
I don't know if that's good enough for a lot of people listening to this whole thing.
What really is going on?
Aye yi yi.
Well that's the societal, the whole general thing about it.
But for individuals... That's the only thing you can do.
Right.
My responsibility is to help them as much as possible.
That's first and foremost.
And if I get to the point where they get sick of it and they don't ever want to see me again, I figure that's great.
That's exactly what I want.
All right.
Wes to the Rockies.
You're on the air with Professor Jacobs.
Hello.
Good morning, gentlemen.
How are you?
Fine.
Where are you, sir?
I'm in Sacramento.
It's interesting that you brought me on at this point because my experiences since I was young, and I'm 40 now, have not been traumatic whatsoever.
They haven't been that intense at all, and I was just wondering how many of your abductees have experiences like mine where I have learned to communicate with them.
It's a visual communication, not a language of any sort, but they sort of Basically, as I discussed before, they kind of like download my brain into their computer or whatever it is, and then they're able to communicate to me certain things visually, not like a picture screen, but almost like a dream, and they can understand what I'm saying because I've learned to speak to them through a visual type concept, through pictures and things and showing
Certain things, and they've taught me a lot.
Alright, so in other words, here's a man that basically is saying it's not a bad experience.
That is what he's saying, right, Caller?
Exactly, yeah.
Their whole program is to be able to basically migrate here.
Immigrate.
That's their whole program.
Well, there I think you agree with Dr. Jacobser.
Right, and I think that you have to remember that For most people, if it's happened over and over and over and over and over again since the time that they were born, which is what all the evidence seems to suggest, by the time a person is 40 or 49, they might have had literally hundreds of abductions.
I mean, if it's only five a year, which is a very, very low count, at age 40 you're dealing with 200.
I mean, the numbers add up very, very quickly.
How traumatic can it be if you've had these things done to you over and over and over again over all the course of your life?
The answer is that oftentimes the trauma, oddly enough, comes in remembering it for the first time.
and and and you get this tremendous fear from people but i found that after
people get used to remembering it uh... there there's still on the even there's still fear uh...
uh... and all that but that becomes and that they become more curious about it
and temple to leave them and and it's not as as traumatic as
as uh... as as people might might think it is so so i i don't look upon it
uh... some abduction researchers do as as just one trauma after another i don't
think that's necessarily true.
So then relax and enjoy it.
It's kind of flippant.
But in the end, right now, that's almost all you've got to offer.
Right.
Now there are other things that happen to women especially, and that is sperm collection procedures where there's sort of sexual contact between humans, which is sexual and it's not sexual since sperm is collected and all that.
That can be fairly embarrassing and even traumatic for some people, and for children it can be quite traumatic.
I won't go into all the things that can happen, but there are some pretty awful things that can happen, too, as well.
But during the course of one's life, there is a certain familiarity with all this, and so it mitigates the trauma to a large extent.
Now, having said that, a lot of people feel that it's spiritually uplifting and all that, and I've had a lot of people who were intent on recreating that feeling when they went back and remembered their experiences, and I have not found that yet in all these years that I've been doing this.
I have not found anything spiritually uplifting or transcendent or anything like that involved in this phenomenon, even by people who desperately want it to be that way.
That's not what they tell me when they begin to remember what happened to them.
Well, I sure appreciate you for somebody who tells it just like it is.
Again, it's been a wonderful program.
I know we're coming up on, what, 4 o'clock or something back where you are?
It's 4 o'clock in the a.m., yeah.
I want to thank you for being here, and I guess we just catch up with you as all of this progresses.
Where is your research going now?
Well, I've actually had a little bit of a leave of absence.
I've been pretty tired, and so I've only done a few sessions recently.
I've been fairly burned out, I must say.
But I'm beginning to get my energy up again and think about my next book project.
Boy, I can see how this would burn you out, too.
It does.
It does.
Doctor, thank you.
Thanks, Art.
I appreciate it.
Good night, my friend.
Bye.
That's Professor David M. Jacobs, and you can see, can't you, how this kind of work would indeed burn you out.
We've got a link to his website and books, and they're on Amazon.com.
If you want to know more about the subject, artbell.com is the place to go right now.
I am Art Bell.
Not dot com.
The Art Bell.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 29th, 2001.
AMC Newsreel Musical Intro.
Coast to Coast AMC Newsreel Musical Intro.
Like a dog without a bone, an actor out on the road, writers on the storm.
There's a killer on the road, his brain is squirming like a toad.
J.K.
Long Island, You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 29th, 2001.
You know, maybe we ought to keep doing abductions tonight.
We're going into open lines now.
And I guess we'll sort of lead it that way.
We will leave it in open lines, but... You know, I think if you're an abductee, and you want to tell us what happened, or is happening, I guess is more like it.
Then my inclination is to go with that.
And to kind of stay with that.
So if you're an abductee, try real hard to get through.
And let's see if we can't get you on the air.
Talk about it a little bit.
Can you imagine what if everything he said is true?
What if the entire planet is being assaulted?
What if the idea is that eventually we all Are going to join a hive.
And that's... That's our future.
As a species, we're gonna become the hive.
Pretty freaky.
Into this night we're thrown into the deep.
Here we go again.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Good morning!
Alicia, you're going to have to get close to the phone and yell at us, because I can barely hear you, hon.
Okay.
This is Alicia from Wilderville, Oregon.
Much better.
Okay.
And my husband and I were abducted three months ago.
It was the first time I had ever remembered anything like that happening.
What exactly can you remember?
Well, I don't remember actually leaving or coming back.
I remember waking up and seeing entities in my house.
Then how do you know you had been anywhere?
Well, it was in the middle of February and I woke up with a sunburn.
My husband and I both.
There were a thousand miles on our odometer and we hadn't been anywhere.
On your odometer.
So you had been on a trip or what?
I don't remember.
I mean, no, I'm saying at the moment of your abduction, do you think you were in a vehicle?
I don't believe so.
We came home and we were fine.
We both took a shower.
There were no... Yes, but you're saying there were a thousand unaccounted for miles on the odometer.
Yes.
Holy smokes.
Um... What do you think happened to you?
Do you have any idea?
I don't.
Does your husband?
No.
We spoke to a friend about it, a very close friend, and he said that we were probably abducted because of the radiation that the... That burned you?
Had burned us, yes.
In February.
Where are you?
Wilderville, Oregon.
This is the National Forest.
Right.
So, nothing else would account for this burn you got, huh?
No.
Have you been to a doctor?
Yes, I have.
He said it just looked like overexposure to weather.
And I don't know how I would have gotten burned like that in the middle of February.
I don't either.
Do you spend a lot of time... I don't know, are you outside people?
Were you outside?
No, we weren't outside.
It was cold.
And we are not outside people.
That's a problem.
I don't know what to tell you, my goodness.
I don't know what to tell you.
You should be talking to an abduction researcher of some sort.
Have you done that yet?
No, I haven't.
I've been a little reserved about it because I can't remember what happened.
So I don't want to go there and say I've been abducted.
When you're not sure?
When I'm not sure.
I'm pretty sure what happened.
How does your husband feel about it?
He's pretty much just kind of, you know, it happened.
Life goes on.
That's kind of what the professor was saying, actually.
However, if what the professor was saying is correct, it's a horrible thing that's about to happen to us.
Yeah, it is.
From these barely remembered little, not-so-little events like the one you just talked about.
Mm-hmm.
How old are you?
Twenty.
Twenty.
Well, I guess.
You know, in the end, I don't know what other attitude you get about it other than the one your husband has.
Mm-hmm.
It happens.
You can't stop it.
So...
Anything else you want to say about it?
Thank you.
Well, we do see lights circling around.
Your home?
Oh, yeah.
But I figure we're in the forest.
There's magnetic energies around.
There's volcano rocks that are here that there's no volcano around.
Well, listen, um... It could be a natural anomaly that we don't... that no one talks about, or everyone's so used to that... Either that, or you're part of all this.
Yeah.
I've thought about that, too.
Well, I absolutely appreciate your call.
Stay in touch.
If anything else happens, let me know right away.
Okay, thank you.
Alright, thank you, and take care.
I guess I'm beginning to see what the professor was talking about.
It's occurring.
What are we going to do about it?
What can we do about it?
If it's from a civilization that far ahead of us, technologically and socially and intellectually, then it is as magic to us, huh?
Magic, or religion, or whatever name you want to lay on it.
Kind of a helpless, annoying feeling, isn't it?
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello.
Art, how are you?
Well, I'm alright, sir.
Good.
Joe down in the Crystal River.
Yes, sir.
And my abduction experience has started when I was four years old.
I was missing for three days.
And I didn't really have vivid recall of it until I was about 24 when I was completing my undergraduate studies in clinical psychology, where part of my training was to undergo psychological assessment and evaluation by my peers and my mentors, at which time the abduction experiences came to surface.
Now, through the course of the years, and I'm 48 years old now, and I'm educated and have advanced degrees, I've pretty much learned to roll with this thing, as Dr. Jacob just said.
It's what everybody's saying.
I'd like to pick his brain, but my experiences have been with multiple species, not just one species.
Right.
I've encountered four different species.
Three of them hostile, one friendly.
The one that was friendly, they called themselves star people.
And that was not an abduction.
It was a visitation, as opposed to an abduction.
And the Star people are concerned with what they call those of the blood, AB negative.
I happen to be a B negative blood group, and so are my daughters.
In fact, we are experiencing at the present time, up at our summer residence in Pennsylvania, experiences right now with my daughter.
I mean right within the last day, within the last two days.
What kind of experiences?
Physical evidence.
Cytoplasm, protoplasm, depositor on her body, marks, those types of things.
I'm powerless to do anything about it.
Well, apparently we all are.
What has been suggested to me by these friendlies, I call them friendlies, the star people, is they tell me to concentrate on the color blue.
There's a universal color blue that stops the bad ones.
The ones I've encountered are the greys, the blues, and reptilians.
The reptilians are the worst.
I was terrorized, but I've learned to deal with this.
And to turn some of this stuff into positive things in terms of what they've told me and showed me regarding technologies that I have turned into issued patents.
And some of the stuff is pretty important things that our military uses.
So, I mean, it's been quite an experience in my life.
I'm always worried about appearing to be normal.
I once did a study of normalcy and found that in the United States, the normal male spends
twenty minutes approximately every Saturday morning cleaning doggy-do out of his yard.
So guess what I did?
I got a dog.
And guess what I do every Saturday morning?
I go for the paper and I take the dog out so the neighbors think I'm normal.
And they all think I'm normal.
I don't know what else to do.
You know, I'm walking this fine line between sanity... I hear you.
...and normalcy, whatever the hell that is.
Yes, yes, yes.
But I made the mistake a few years ago of letting some of my people at NASA know about some of these things.
Probably a mistake.
There went my displays at the Kennedy Space Center.
What else can I tell you?
That'll do, sir.
Thank you very much.
Oh, my.
So concerned about being normal that he went out and got a dog so it could poop in the yard so he could clean it up every Saturday morning.
Oh boy.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hi.
Oh, I'm here.
Oh, yes, you're there.
Good.
I don't have my radio on for a change.
Good for you.
My headset, I was prepared this time.
Oh, good for you.
That issue of normalcy hits a nerve because since my first experience that I realized was an actual experience, part of that made me realize that I never did feel normal around people for the most part.
And since the experience, I've made more of an effort to be more normal around people.
It's in the back of your head.
Since what experience?
I'm just speaking for myself.
I know, I'm asking since what experience?
Oh, since I was, I believe, abducted.
On the road.
1991, 92.
On the road?
Yes, I was driving.
I was driving along the Palisades Parkway up here in New York.
Yes.
During a very heavy It was a snow storm.
It wasn't a lot of wind.
It was just constantly falling nice deep snow, and I was forced to get on the road to drive home from my girlfriend's house.
It was about a 20-minute ride with no traffic, no snow, and it took me an hour and 45 minutes to get home, whereas it should have taken maybe 40 minutes to get home in the snow.
The snow was about a foot deep, and I was actually driving along slowly in this virgin snow, kind of enjoying the fact that I was the only one on the road.
On the other side of the patch of woods that divides these two north-south lanes comes this bright light that's pacing me at the same exact speed that I'm going at.
But it's higher than a car.
It's higher than any car.
And it's not making a sound.
And as far as I could hear, I rolled down my window to listen to see what kind of a truck or snowmobile or device this was.
It didn't make a sound, but there was this light.
I slowed down, it would slow down.
So it was sort of pacing me.
At one point, all of a sudden, it sort of lifted up in a way, in a blink, where I couldn't really turn my neck around to see where it went, but in that lifting up, it was gone.
Wow.
That was odd.
If that was a truck, I don't know where he could have gotten off the road.
Of course, there are no exits on that side of the road where he was to get off.
And they're all aimed at the wrong direction.
You know what I'm saying?
Yes.
He would have gone plummeting down some sort of an abyss.
Yes, I understand.
So, this thing just flat disappeared.
Well, how do you... I mean, that's a sighting.
How do you now get to abduction?
I get to abduction in that night.
I had a dream.
After taking far too long to get home, I finally get home.
It's about 4.30 in the morning, and I'm just, you know, scratching my head over how the heck this took so long.
It just made no sense.
Sure.
I've always been, you know, into UFOs.
Interested in UFOs, I should say.
And paranormal phenomena and that sort of thing.
But when something weird like this happens to me, that's the last thing I thought of.
You know?
I had dreams that night that my car was stopped in the middle of the snow and I was surrounded by what appeared to be deer with arms and legs and hands.
Now if you look at a deer head-on, what do you see?
Large eyes, small face.
Of course you have the big ears because deers have the ears.
That's right.
But all I could make out were the small statuesque outlines of these small deer that were surrounding my car, which was in place, a deer coming over to the side of the car, opening my door for me, and I felt very good.
I felt like this was the right thing to do, and they helped me out of the car.
One of them took my hand, and I looked down to see a hand coming from a deer.
It was a small hand, like a child's hand.
I didn't think anything of it at the time, and it led me away from my car on the road Back toward this very bright light where now I was hearing a little bit of a hum and there was a little bit of steam coming from around the snow and I don't remember anything after that from that dream.
I appreciate your bringing it forward.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Yes, hello.
Hello.
Yes, hello.
I'm here.
Good.
Yes, Bill.
Yes?
Yes.
A couple of things.
One is, you were talking to Dr. Jacobs at Cargill, Zachariah Sitchin's theories or works.
Well, I mentioned Zachariah Sitchin to him for obvious reasons.
Yeah.
He was talking about the hive, right?
Yeah.
That really is what Dr. Jacobs was talking about, the hive.
You know, when I read Sitchin, I got that the Anunnaki were more reptilian.
That's right.
Yeah, and he was, like, called a serpent and a snake.
And the Anunnaki were very emotional beings.
They weren't non-emotional like these beings that he's talking about.
So I think he is talking about the insect types.
And so I thought I would put that in.
And also this is kind of a comforting thing.
They're always talking about pole shifts and everybody's really concerned about the cataclysm coming up if there is a pole shift.
Maybe there won't be one because if there was going to be a pole shift these beings are so intelligent they would surely know that.
If they want to occupy the earth Maybe we could just forget about the pole shift.
Well, exactly.
In other words, if the Earth is going to be occupied, if in fact we're in the middle of an invasion right now, which is something to contemplate, something to think about.
If we're in the middle of an invasion right now, then what is this whole pole shift stuff?
All we know is, a lot of us know, that something is coming.
Something is pending.
That we can feel something pending.
Now, it may not be a pulse shift at all.
It may not be a cataclysmic event with the environment, much as they seem quite likely right now.
Maybe it's what Dr. Jacobs has been talking about.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Yeah, Art Bell?
That's me.
Yeah, I'm Brian from Cincinnati.
Yes, Brian.
And I didn't intend to be up this late.
It happens.
Yeah.
I was listening to David Jacobs and I've talked with him in the past.
I was at that conference at MIT in 1992.
Yes.
There were about 150 mental health professionals there.
They were trying to investigate the alien abduction phenomenon.
Right.
I presented a paper about the telepathic spread.
You presented a paper?
Yes.
Are you a credentialed person?
Well, I have an M.D.
I don't practice medicine.
I do some research.
All right.
I'll tell you what.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
Can you hold on?
Sure.
All right.
Stay right there.
We'll get back to you shortly, Doctor.
It's the bottom of the hour and this is Coast to Coast AM.
I'm Art Bell.
How are you doing this morning?
Not a bad morning for an invasion, huh?
You're listening to ArcBell, somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 29th, 2001.
This is a song about a man who was in love with a woman.
He was in love with a woman.
Darling, don't you lose my woman.
He was in love with a woman.
I can feel it coming in the air tonight Oh Lord And I've been waiting for this moment for all my life Oh Lord Can you feel it coming in the air tonight?
Oh Lord You know, it's funny.
Well if you told me you were drowning, I would not land.
Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's program originally aired May 29, 2001.
You know it's funny, I get messages and email messages and stuff.
stuff from people who want to be abducted.
Can you imagine that?
They really want the experience.
And from what I've heard, if what Dr. Jacob says is true, there are some things you should
be very careful about wishing for.
All right, back to our caller.
And you're back on the air, sir.
All right.
It sounds like you're familiar with the Abduction Study Conference at MIT.
Yes, I've heard of it.
John Mack and Dave Pritchard were co-chairs for that meeting.
The title of my paper there was Possible Telepathic Spread of UFO Abduction Stories.
I just made the point that if There was telepathic rapport between aliens and people, that there might be a telepathic rapport between people and people, and also the abductees and the hypnotherapists.
I think a good question might be, how many of them are hybrids?
Well, you don't even have to be a... Well, I guess that's a point, but I'm...
Coming back to a couple of books that I found, telepathy happens so frequently between people and it's actually enhanced.
Telepathic rapport is enhanced by hypnosis.
So I brought up the problem of people doing hypnosis and having in mind the abduction format and then having their subjects extract the story from their own mind.
How do you even know if your own thoughts are original?
Have you ever wondered about that?
How do you know that your own thoughts are original?
in your head.
Right.
So you got the picture.
I think I've got the picture.
Thank you very much.
Yeah, that's right.
How would you know?
How do you even know if your own thoughts are original?
Have you ever wondered about that?
How do you know that your own thoughts are original?
You really don't.
If somebody was able to telepathically, in essence, inject a thought into your mind or
into the collective consciousness so that it would pop out as sort of an original thought,
we'd never know it.
Wouldn't we?
Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello.
Yes, sir.
Yeah, this is Tom.
I'm calling from Moline, Illinois, and I listened to you.
AM 1420.
Ah, yes sir.
Yeah, um, I've been abducted.
And, uh, I remember it pretty well.
Um, one thing I do want to say is that you need a, um, a Beijing Preplay Plus to fight aliens.
I know that.
How does that help?
You know, when they drop you off, um, you gotta make sure you got batteries and those things don't run out of power.
So, they're real good.
So, it's the abduction radio.
Yeah.
It's true.
You still have power.
Even if your batteries were drained, you could still dredge up power.
Crank that up.
That's right.
Good point.
And then, you know, if they take you out to the moon or something, or the sun or whatever, just use that solar panel.
Well, if you're actually at the sun, sir... No, no.
I've never been there.
I've never been up to the moon either.
I just... I remember the...
The gray room with the lights.
The lights are really weird.
The lighting is really weird up there.
I remember waking up on the table once.
You know, I remember this.
Is the light enough to drive the Bajan?
That's the big question.
Oh, no, no.
You can't drive your Bajan on the ship.
No, you can't.
Very subdued lighting, then.
Right.
It's really dim.
It's an eerie kind of dim light.
Uh-huh.
And you were on a... The lights are so acute that...
They're so black, you know, they collect the light.
You see what I'm saying?
Yes, I think.
In fact, the look into those eyes and the mind meld with them is... Start talking about neurotransmitters, nectar clouds.
You're talking about the classic black eyes of the gray?
Epinephrine, norepinephrine, how the human body works.
You're talking about the... They've taken them all apart.
You're talking about the classic guys of the gray, sir.
Yeah.
Dark black.
And then the Watchers.
Little tiny light suckers.
Yeah.
Yeah, the light suckers.
All right, gotcha.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello.
Hello, Art.
Yes.
Hi, this is Mark in Indianapolis.
Hey, there.
How are you doing?
All right, sir.
Well, I'm going to be 50 this year.
Congratulations.
Well, thank you, I think.
I have also, like a previous caller, I've had four different types of species involved with me in abduction experience, whatever.
You have?
Yeah.
And what I have found over the years, I became aware of this about 30 years ago, they've let, I don't know why, they wanted me to be conscious through a lot of this.
I have found that what they're here to do, yes, we are becoming part of a hive and there's no military solution, forget that.
We are being brought into something much larger, but here's the thing.
I've been able to establish a rapport with all four different types.
There's a reptilian, insectoid, gray, and human species that are involved in this.
What they're here to learn is the process of love.
If you can show them love, it takes them off their track.
It stops the program.
Now, the thing about it is you start with humor.
All the species understand humor.
Start with humor.
Move from humor to friendship.
How do you know they're not just going along with you, so that they're reacting in a way that makes you feel comfortable?
Well, because my life has changed so much.
Yes, there is an inclusion that happens into a group mind, but it's not an insectoid group mind.
We're not being assimilated like with the Borg.
We're being opened to more of a universal mind that they're already a part of.
How do you know that that's not a, what's the right word, a trick?
Because it works from human to human.
Professor Jacobs seems convinced from an awful lot of research, sir, over 30 years now, 35 years, that you're wrong.
That you may be right about the abduction aspect of the experience, but your comfort with it is just something that Either they've manufactured for you, or you've manufactured for yourself to be comfortable with the experience.
Oh, I consider that too.
I have.
But the fact is, he's right about one thing.
We can't do anything about it.
We really can't.
But we can learn to flow much better with it, and as we flow better with it, we grow as we flow.
And that's all we can do.
But there is an enjoyable aspect to it, and there is a blossoming aspect to it.
That's incredible.
You know, to the average person listening tonight, they're going, these people are out of their minds.
This thing isn't going on.
This is some sort of mass hysteria or something.
Since you're addressing a lot of those people, what would you say to them?
Well, what I would say to them is that it doesn't matter if we are hallucinating this or if this is really happening.
There is a very big sociological and psychological change happening to our species.
That's true.
It's happening one by one, and it's happening collectively.
Now, if they want to believe that we are nuts, by all means, examine us.
Get to know us.
Talk to us.
Because we're trying to talk to the source that's causing this, too.
Well, aside from what you've been telling me, you sound completely lucid.
Well, I try to be, because I'll tell you, it's not easy.
It really is not easy.
Because it becomes part of your life and you accept it.
I'll tell you the truth, if it were to go away tomorrow, I would feel lost.
I would feel totally disoriented and I would need something greater to hold on to.
Remove this and it's like taking God out of your life.
I'm not saying this is God, but it's your next step that you're reaching for.
It's like an escalator you're going up.
It's taking you to something higher.
If all of a sudden that were to change... Well, I hope you're right, but I fear you're not.
Well, like I said, the best thing to do is go with the flow, enjoy it, and try to get to know them and give them our highest qualities.
If we're going to be abducted, yeah.
Alright, I've got it.
I appreciate the call.
Thank you.
Fascinating.
Hi, I'm Lynn from a small town in Alaska.
I'll just start at the beginning.
I started remembering this about four years ago.
Remembering?
Remembering a potential abduction.
It was a series of events that happened to me when I was 18.
I lived in Northern California.
I was going to school in Chico.
I had my first sighting when I was 18.
This was in 1976.
It was your typical bright light that did the maneuvers that were impossible and then just sped off.
Then a few months later, I was driving between Chico and the Bay Area at 2 or 3 in the morning.
I had the missing time thing.
Two hours of missing time and right before that happened it looked like a floating city.
That's all I can describe.
It had little windows and it looked like little stairways above this field.
We did a mile check and it was late at night so we thought well maybe it's a grain sow but it looked awfully strange.
It had a strange blue glow to it.
And then we went off on our trip and it was odd because it was a three hour trip.
It took us six hours.
So that was a little strange that we didn't question it because we just don't.
and came back through and sure enough there was nothing there.
I wonder what most people do with missing time. Do they do that?
In other words, you go, hey, where did that three hours go? And then you think
about it for a while, but what can you do? So you just eventually sort of...
Yeah.
I mean at the time we didn't know how to click our amygdala, right?
Right.
So anyway, the other thing too was about four months after that I had a dance class and I was quite a bit active and it felt like there was something in my abdomen moving strangely.
Oh.
And so I had it checked on.
Yes.
And I thought I was perhaps pregnant.
Right.
And my periods were all screwed up.
Lo and behold I had a cyst attached to my fallopian tube.
It weighed two pounds and it was like a water balloon.
The doctor that took it out said he had never seen anything like it.
So there was these little series of events.
I never strung them together until four years ago.
I was recovering from an illness so I had a lot of time on my hands and I did a lot
of counseling, meditation groups, and so on and so forth.
Things started falling together and I started remembering things through rebirthing sessions and through this meditation.
It was a study of sacred geometry.
And the macabre, which is an energy field around the body.
And this is how I understand this whole thing with the greys, because they were greys.
They were greys?
They were greys.
The typical... Yeah, the typical big-eyed things.
Then they gave me the woolies, you know, and they started becoming the chic, like, little toys and stuff.
They really gave me the woolies.
The interesting thing about this whole thing that I would like to, like the previous caller that mentioned love, well what I understand is that the Greys are part of the Luciferian Rebellion and that they have become so techno they have forgotten how to love.
And so what I think, it's all coming up with the Ascension, or the Polar Shift, or whatever you want to call it, that's coming up, you know.
Pretty soon, yeah.
Within the next ten years, or whatever.
And because if you look at all the clues, it's like putting all the dots together, and it's starting to become a picture.
The other thing, too, that... Is this Mrs. Hoagland?
Pardon me?
I was asking if this was Mrs. Hoagland.
No, this is actually... When you start talking about dots, you know.
The thing is, though, is that the grays, you know, I think they're hybriding because they need that capacity to love to make the shift.
Because if you're not in the vibration of love and you're with that, if you don't know that, you won't make the shift.
It's a really fast vibration.
It's got a really fast wave as opposed to fear, which has a really slow one.
So the really fast wave activates all the codons, all the amino acids, everything to make us the highest potential human being we can be so we can join our star brothers and sisters.
Alright, well there we have it again.
Our star brothers and sisters.
Now, as you listen to people who have been abducted, and we've had a whole string of them here in this hour, what's the commonality?
The commonality seems to be that everybody feels it's a good thing.
It's a good thing.
Our brothers, our space brothers, are going to help us.
They're here to help us rise to the next human level, and all the rest of it.
That's what the individual experience seems to be.
Or that's how it's been rationalized by the individual.
But the serious college professor, who's been researching this now for 35 years, has a very different answer.
And he has an answer for why you're all feeling the way you are.
And it's a good thing that these are our space brothers and sisters.
Well, maybe it's just not that way.
I understand that they might want us to think that.
I understand that you might want to rationalize that.
Because to believe the other is pretty much a horror, right?
Even if we can't do anything about it, it's a horror.
First time caller online, you're on the air.
Hey Art, how are you doing?
Okay.
This is Todd in Seattle.
Yes, Todd.
I think I've summarized why the aliens are here, and I figured it all out.
Why?
Basically, the aliens are, spiritually speaking, they're like fallen angels, or Lucifer's angels.
And what they want to do is implement a program of complete and total control over humanity.
The hybrids would be the vehicles.
It would be like the Mark of the Beast.
You get a body.
And the body is something that they made.
They download your brain and your life experience into it.
And from that point on, you have no soul.
You would be like a TV set receiving consciousness that they programmed for you to have.
And they would control your existence.
And of course, the government is in cahoots with them because the government I mean, no reason.
Oh, they're under control anyway, aren't they?
Well, that's what I was going to say.
That's what they live for.
Yep.
The more controlled, the happier they are.
And so along comes the devil and his people saying, hey, we can get you no more riots, no more labor unrest, no more complete control of your agriculture and everything.
And all you've got to do is let us complete the genetic experimentation that we're doing.
And for all the people who are saying, That this is a positive thing?
You know, if I went into your house and took you and did experiments on you against your will, I would be one of the most wanted people in America, especially doing it to kids.
I know, but you know what?
That's how people come to terms with it.
If you have something like this happening to you, that you have absolutely no control over, no hope of stopping, maybe a slim hope of slowing it down with extraordinary measures, but otherwise, really, in the long run, You have no way to stop it, no way to control it, no way to make it better, then you're going to rationalize it in some way, because you want to go on living.
Right.
And also, they say it's positive, but that could be another suggestion put in during their hypnosis, when they're positive being positive.
Absolutely.
Absolutely correct.
And so people rationalize it, and that's how they go on living.
You know, we pretty much We're beings who want to go on living.
Yes, we will.
And that's what they don't want us to have.
They don't... the aliens or the devil... God gave us free will, and they are agents who are against free will.
I don't know... Well, if you listen to Professor Jacobs, once all this... Oh, there you are.
So, once all of this is complete, what is the one thing that will be missing?
Free will.
Free will.
But, I mean, you probably know this too, but they're not going to win.
They'll take a chunk of people with them, but whoever goes that way, in Revelation, they have all these plagues put against them.
And then the truly free people, the people of God, will take over the planet, and Meek will inherit the Earth.
And the story will have a little red bow put on it, right?
Uh, well, it is.
Everybody lives, everybody lives happily ever after.
Not everyone, only, not everyone's going to make it.
Not everyone wants to be well, and then they're going to have to go bye-bye.
Uh, bye-bye?
Because, yeah, because God wants... What do you mean by bye-bye?
They're going to leave the planet.
God's making them go away, because God wants Earth to be free again, to have love and abundance and health for all the good people, because you can't have heaven and hell mixed Anymore.
The time's up.
No more time.
All right, sir.
I appreciate your call and your comment.
We are out of time.
Now, tomorrow night, we're going to do something entirely different.
And as you know, there's a gigantic power crisis in California, and now spreading across the nation.
Tomorrow night, Richard Perez, who's been off the grid for a long time, is going to tell you how you can do it.
He's the guy who runs Home Power Magazine.
▲
Export Selection