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May 29, 2001 - Art Bell

02:50:35

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - UFOs and Abductions - David M. Jacobs - Mars Update

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43:28

david m jacobs

01:15:33

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 29, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest.
		Good job.
		Good evening and or good morning or good afternoon wherever you may be across this great land of parts and well beyond.
		Commercially, from the island of Guam, the levelable rock in the Pacific, across the Capeline eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north, all the way to the Pole, this is post-post a.m. and I'm Marpell.
		Good morning.
		This will be an interesting week, and we'll lead it off with Dr. Jacobs, one of my favorite guests of all time, because we agree.
		Dr. Jacobs is one of the only people to ever suggest that the visitations that we're getting from elsewhere may not be the warm, fuzzy little guys that so many people imagine them to be.
		That the guys waiting with the needles and the probes just may not be who you want them to be.
		So, Dr. Jacobs tonight in a few moments, as a matter of fact.
		Now, we have new guys tonight.
		Welcome to Tulsa, Oklahoma.
		For those of you from Tulsa, I know many listening long distance to various stations.
		Guess what?
		We have just landed in Tulsa on KTBZ 1430 on the dial.
		And they will carry the entire program every night.
		So good morning, Tulsa.
		WDBQ in Dubuque, Iowa.
		Welcome.
		Good to be in Dubuque now, too.
		1490 on the dial in Dubuque.
		So two new ones tonight, Tulsa and Dubuque, Iowa.
		Tulsa, Oklahoma, Dubuque, Iowa.
		That's excellent.
		And we are so close to 500 affiliates right now.
		And actually, once we get there, we may, let's put it this way, we're within reach of being the largest talk show, period, in number of affiliates.
		And so we may take a race toward that mark.
		Already we are the largest talk show in the history of the country, nighttime talk show.
		Affiliate-wise, certainly we are there now.
		However, as we're about to hit the 500 mark, and I can't tell you it's very close though, from that point, we're going to be racing toward the next mark, which will be the largest number of affiliates ever gathered by any talk show.
		Ever.
		Which would be an interesting goal to pursue.
		Don't forget, we are now on C-Band, folks.
		I want to remind you every now and then of that.
		If you have one of those old dinosaur big dishes, I love mine.
		Boy, you couldn't drag mine from anything but my cold, dead fingers.
		We're on C-Band now, C-Band satellite.
		So if you have one of the monsters, go to W3 or GE3 Transponder 18, which happens to be the Fox movie channel.
		But turn your audio to 6.8 so you can watch like some Fox movie or something without the sound, and you can listen to us on 6.8 megahertz wideband audio.
		so if you'll stay right there tonight will kick it off with a guest and a good one too dr david m jacobs coming up Dr. David M. Jacobs is Associate Professor of History at Temple University, specializing in 20th century American history and culture.
		That's us.
		He is the former director of the American Studies Program.
		Dr. Jacobs has been a UFO researcher for 35 years, long time.
		In 1973, he completed his doctoral dissertation in the field of intellectual history.
		That's interesting.
		We'll have to talk about that.
		At the University of Wisconsin-Madison on the controversy over identified, unidentified, or are they now, identified flying objects in America.
		This was only the second Ph.D. degree granted involving a UFO-related theme.
		Indiana University Press published a revised version of his dissertation by Indiana University Press as The UFO Controversy in America in 1975.
		It was the first positive book toward UFOs published by an academic press.
		He's written and delivered many articles, papers, and addresses on the subject of UFOs and abductions, has been a consultant to the major UFO organizations for many of them.
		For over 20 years, he has offered the only regular curriculum university course on UFOs, UFOs in American society.
		He delivered the first paper to a scientific organization about the abduction phenomena, Cornell University in 1989, participated in the first session on UFOs at the History of Science Society, Washington, D.C. in 92, developed the first scientific topology of the abduction experience.
		Since the early 80s, he specialized in the UFO abduction phenomena, conducted more than 800 hypnotic regressions, 800, with over 130 abductees has lectured widely on the subject, giving papers at universities and colleges all across our country.
		Dr. Jacobs and colleague Bud Hopkins, you know, Bud, conducted the much-discussed Roper Organization poll of the abduction phenomenon.
		The results of that highly influential survey were published in 1992 in the booklet Unusual Personal Experiences, commissioned by Bob Bigelow.
		Remember that?
		He has just done so much.
		He has so many books.
		And we're going to discuss, in all probability, all of his books.
		So the one that I really fell in love with, I think, along with, I guess, a lot of the rest of the country, was The Threat.
		He's got a brand new book, though, and we'll tell you about that.
		The threat I fell in love with because The Threat outlined perhaps an unpopular notion, and that is that these beings may not be what we hope they are all warm and friendly.
		Dr. Jacobs, welcome to the program.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you, Art.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, there's so much information about you here.
		You have so many books now.
		And you have a brand new one, I hear.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, the new one is an edited one.
		It's edited by me, and it includes 10 authors, and it's published by an academic press also, and it's really only the second academic press book that takes primarily a positive viewpoint towards UFOs and abductions that's been published in the last half century.
		It's really a not very good sort of comment on the academic world and this subject.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's amazing enough all by itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it called?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's called UFOs and Abductions Challenging the Borders of Knowledge.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		And I've contributed a chapter, of course, and Bud Hopkins and John Mack and Eddie Bullard and Jerry Clark and Don Dondre, Stuart Appell, and for people into UFO research, they'll recognize these names.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All the heavyweights.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Michael Swords and Michael Persinger, who did a sort of a negative article up in Ontario, and Ron Westrom and so forth.
		And I hope I didn't leave anybody out, but it's a really solid, well-done, I think, book.
		And Michael Briggs at the University of Kansas Press was instrumental in making it into a first-rate book.
		And so I'm very proud of it and pleased with it.
		And it's aimed at the academic community because, you know, most academics not only don't know anything about the subject, but they don't know that there is anything to know about the subject.
		They don't know that there's a there-there, as they say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what we ought to talk about, whether there is a there-there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you've been doing this professionally 35 years, is that right?
unidentified		35 years?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, about that, yeah.
		I got interested in the subject in the mid-1960s, and by the late 60s, I was subscribing to Flying Saucer Review, and then I joined NICAP and APRO and became a, quote, field investigator, end, quote, for APRO back in the late 60s and early 70s.
		And that's where I published my first words on the subject was through APRO, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, if after 35 years, Doctor, there's not something to this, then what are you doing?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		That's an excellent question.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		You know, I ask myself that question every day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is a good question, and it deserves a good answer.
		In other words, are you as convinced today as you have been?
		How's it gone?
		In fact, that's a better question.
		Over the 35 years, there have been, I'm sure, peaks and valleys in your own personal doubts and hopes and what you think is.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, there has been.
		In terms of my personal opinion about this subject, I tend to, you know, everybody these days is a skeptic or a debunker or good on UFOs and bad on abductions or whatever.
		And if I stay away from abductees for a long period of time, I begin to think, well, you know, maybe I was barking up the wrong tree.
		Maybe my life has been totally wasted, for example.
		But these thoughts kind of come into me.
		And then I get back to the data, and I get back to abductees, and I get back to the testimony, and I think, no, no, no, no, no.
		I did the right thing as far as I'm concerned.
		I always have doubts, of course, but the evidence just overwhelms it every time I go back to it.
		So I'm pretty much, as I said for the threat, it's a downright embarrassing book, and I am embarrassed by it, but at the same time, I'm really quite confident that it's not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why are you embarrassed by it?
unidentified		well i think absolutely insane things uh...
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		and uh...
		you know obviously for an academic to come out in Well, I mean, unfortunately, most abduction researchers have to say this eventually, but, you know, this is a deal which is reproductively oriented, and there's sort of a sexual component to it at times.
		And what I'm saying in this book is that women are being used as hosts for hybrid babies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that is what we hear from the abductees, so why would it be insane to say that?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I went further than that, and then I talked about what I thought was the meaning of all this, and I did talk about the fact that I think that ultimately this is probably some sort of an integration program or integration program or a colonization or a takeover.
		I'm not sure what phrase To use because I don't know how the shape of it will be in the future.
		But I do think that this is a situation where we're not looking at a study, we're not looking at an experiment, we're not looking at a learning situation.
		What we're seeing here is a systematic program, a systematic agenda, in essence, that has a beginning, a middle, and an end.
		It's goal-directed, and it's primarily for these beings' purposes and not necessarily for us.
		And, you know, when you say things like that, that aliens from another planet are coming down here and having sex with women to take over the country of the planet or whatever, I'd say that's pretty far out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is until you talk to abductees.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the thing.
		And, you know, I'll talk with people who've had abduction experiences, who've never read anything that I've written, and who really don't know much about the subject.
		And they'll come out in hypnosis with the same things.
		And I just hear them over and over again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, let me tell you one.
		You know, I've been doing radio for a whole lot of years now on related subjects.
		And in the early years, even though we talked about abduction, women would never call the show ever and say that they had had sexual experiences in connection with abduction.
		But in the last couple of years, in the last two or three years, and especially the last year, I've been getting a lot of those calls, Doctor.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you know, I don't think this is going to go away.
		I think we're in for the long haul with this, and it's opening up, it's becoming safer for people to come forward, and more and more people are recognizing that these odd things are happening to them.
		And it's programs like yours that have allowed for that to happen because they've opened up channels of communication and safety for people.
		And there's a ripple effect throughout the society.
		And in general, a lot of the publicity that's in the past two decades over the subject has done that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, what do we know about the women that have said they've had sexual experiences in connection with abduction?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many of these women, for example, have turned up pregnant?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, what happens is that in my opinion, and now I can't tell you actual statistics.
		I'd have to go back in my own files and start leaking through and see how many reported a pregnancy that turned out not to be a pregnancy, you know.
		And I hope your audience understands that as a person who's used as a host for a hybrid fetus, and I know that I'm saying a lot for people who, excuse me, who just might be tuning in and not know much about the subject,
		but what we found, and what actually what Bud Hopkins found in the early 1980s was that these sort of reproductive aspects were involved in the subject and that women were being implanted with these little fetuses or embryos and then they were removed sometime later so they're pregnant and then they're mysteriously not pregnant.
		My guess is that virtually all of the women whom I've worked with have had that.
		Now the problem is that sometimes when I work with somebody, I'll only see them once.
		and so we'd have not felt the relationship enough to to find that all the inner particulars of the person's life but people who are worked with for any number for any period of time will immediately say that because that is ultimately one of the reasons why they're being abducted why would why would they need these women Obviously, yes, for reproductive purposes, but I mean, I didn't mean - I guess I should rephrase my question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not why do they need the women?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do they need these fetuses at that level?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, why do they need the women?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		It's just as good a question, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I figure they need them or they wouldn't do it.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the answer.
		We really don't know why they need to have men and women, why this aspect takes place, because one would assume that we know that they take eggs and sperm, and then this has been a constant in this phenomenon forever, practically.
		But if you take a couple of gallons of sperm, you've got enough to last you for a long time, it seems to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, a couple of gallons of sperm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You could repopulate the planet.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, it lasts for a couple of weeks, anyway.
		But if you take a couple hundred thousand follicles and then just sort of have them mature in vitro, why do you need to keep coming back over and over and over again and doing this?
		And the answer is, well, we don't know.
		And the same thing with using a woman as a host to incubate the fetus.
		Why can't they do that through some sort of technological means in vitro in some way?
		And the answer to that is, we really don't know.
		But your answer is the best one.
		And that is they do it because they need these procedures and they need these women and men for reasons that we don't fully understand yet because we just don't have all the answers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is our best guess, though?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, what are they doing with these living things?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, the other question that you asked is, well, why are they doing these fetuses?
		Now, even as I say this, you have to remember that this reproductive aspect has been noticed from the very beginning.
		It was there in the Antonio Villas-Boas case of 1957.
		It was there in the Barney and Betty Hill case of 1961.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's there in cattle mutilations.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		It's there in cattle mutilations.
		And if that's related to the abduction phenomenon, then it's all part of the same package in some way that we don't understand.
		But the fact is, though, that for abductees, this is a constant.
		And what I found, which is in the threat, is the fact that the hybridization program is far more complex and far more important than we had ever thought.
		In other words, when Bud Hopkins first discovered this back in 19, well, which he wrote up in his book Intruders, we were just astonished.
		I remember him calling me up maybe in 1983 or so and telling me that he'd had this case where this woman was presented with this odd little baby, and the baby looked weird, sort of across an alien and a human.
		And I couldn't believe what I was hearing.
		It was just, I've never heard anything like it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I remember that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember that case, as a matter of fact.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that these hybrids are there or among us?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		I think that they are there.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		However, I'm wavering on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold that thought.
		You understand.
		Hold that thought.
		it's a living thing we're talking about It's Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 29, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from May 29, 2001.
		It's a terrible thing to do.
		It's a given thing.
		What a terrible thing to lose.
		What a terrible thing to lose.
		What a terrible thing to lose.
		She doesn't give you time to question as she walks up your own home.
		And you follow to your thoughts of which direction completely disappears.
		While the boots of all never market goes of the hidden that she leads you to bend up, feel my light like a river running through the air of the cat.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired May 29th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's who we are.
		All right, good morning.
		Dr. David M. Jacobs is Associate Professor of History at Temple University, specializing in 20th century American history and culture.
		He's also former director of the American Studies Program, a heavyweight in ufology.
		are you listening to what he's saying our women Are you women listening?
		Anyway, we'll get back to it in a moment.
		I can tell it's going to be a good night.
		Stay right there.
unidentified		Stay right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here we go again.
		Since we're loosely on the subject, by the way, Dr. Stevens, a heart specialist, had died, and his friends and loved ones were attending his funeral.
		His coffin was placed before what appeared to be a mock-up of a very large heart.
		Appropriate, I guess, for a heart specialist, huh?
		When the priest had finished the sermon, and after everyone had said their goodbyes, the heart opened up, and the coffin proceeded to slowly roll inside.
		After several moments had passed, the large heart slowly closed.
		Just as the heart had closed, one of the mourners started laughing uncontrollably.
unidentified		The guy next to him said, what are you laughing at?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was thinking about my own funeral, the man replied.
		What's so funny about that?
		Well, I'm a gynecologist.
		Dr. Jacobs, welcome back.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Quite an introduction, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's the visual.
		Anyway, this is really serious stuff we're talking about.
		We're talking about a violation of a human being.
		We're talking about kind of the equivalent of rape, from our perspective anyway.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		It's perfectly awful in those terms.
		That's true.
		And now, we look at it that way.
		A lot of abductees look at it that way.
		A lot of abductees don't.
		In a phenomenon as widespread as this, you're going to get a spectrum of opinion both personally and, of course, societally about what it all means.
		And personally, for many abductees, especially those who really don't understand what's happened to them, they live in a kind of coping world where they feel that this is wonderful and it's great and it's all things that are good and kind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that why you think they have that aptitude?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a lot of reasons for it.
		I think that's probably one of the major reasons.
		It certainly is better to feel that you're part of a grandma.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are they necessarily wrong?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, Dr. Jacobs, you don't have the power to stop what's happening to them, right?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, Not really.
		We can slow it down a little bit.
		We can stop it at certain times.
		But basically, the answer is no.
		We don't have the power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then if you don't, if nobody can stop it, then their coping with it is probably their best choice.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Oh, absolutely.
		Oh, I totally agree.
		And I would not try to persuade people otherwise.
		But you have to remember that this is a secret phenomenon.
		And it's clandestine, and it's clandestine for a reason.
		And the bottom-line reason is that they don't want us to know what they're doing to us.
		That is the bottom line.
		And it's an unarguable statement as long as you feel that this is a real phenomenon and that it is going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what are they doing to us?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, other than the obvious.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, they don't want us to know that they're taking us and that they're doing all this reproductive stuff and they're manufacturing these hybrids and that it's a worldwide phenomenon and that it occupies a tremendous amount of people's lives, time and energy and so forth, because we might want to stop it.
		Some people may object, for example.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Definitely might want to stop it.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Right, and that can't be allowed.
		And that's where powerlessness comes in.
		That's where you get a situation of dominance.
		And it can't be allowed and it won't be allowed and it isn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so do you believe the government is aware of this?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I really don't.
		I think primarily, as I might have mentioned before, that the government takes its cues from the scientific community.
		And the scientific community not only thinks that it's just total nonsense, but they're resolutely hostile to looking into it, even on the most superficial levels.
		And which brings us back to the they're there question.
		And so I really think that the government doesn't know.
		And the problem is that with all the research into government activities for all these years, and the first sort of government secrecy theories were formed in the late 40s.
		But from that time on, from Kehoe's first book in 1950 on, the amount of information that we've gotten from the government in terms of the goals and motivations of this phenomenon has been pretty close to zero.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Recently, Dr. Greer did something at the National Press Club.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know about that, huh?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And once again, what that is, is just people coming forward and saying that they've seen UFOs, and this has nothing to do with motivations and goals, you see.
		Oh, no, of course not.
		And I think that it's important that people understand that serious people in important positions are UFO witnesses, and they have the ability to differentiate between a UFO and something that's conventional.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		And so on that level.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I believe that our government is aware of the kind of information that Dr. Greer's witnesses were talking about.
		They have to be.
		If they're not, then they're dysfunctional or not of any use to us.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I hope you're right.
		I guess my point is that even if they do, we've never uncovered it, never found it, and it's never, the government, doing government research has not aided much in our understanding of the phenomenon itself.
		So we just have to take the bull by the horns and do the research ourselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, not at the level you're talking about, certainly.
		And I understand why that hasn't been engaged, and we're about a million miles from that.
		But everybody wants to understand, I think, what is happening.
		Why are they doing this?
		And what is the goal?
		Do you have any thoughts, guesses?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I do.
		i do and uh...
		now once again this is sort of jumping to a tremendous conclusion without without proper preparation because We do that here all the time.
		Well, everything sort of leads to this in my own research, and that is that the key is these little hybrid babies, because people describe them as fetuses being taken from them, and every once in a while they'll be shown these little fetuses.
		And we see them as babies and other fetuses actually in tanks, and this is very common, where they're sort of suspended in a nutrient liquid from what I can gather.
		And we see them by the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds in this way, and even more at times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Breeding farms.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, breeding farms.
		It's essentially right.
		And then people describe them as babies, you know, where they have to hold the babies and feed the babies and all that.
		And then we see them as toddlers, and we see them as youngsters, as children, and older children, and adolescents and adults, and sometimes even older adults, although with a tremendously decreasing frequency of that.
		But the fact is, though, that we see them throughout a lifespan.
		And what we've seen also is that they don't just grow up and just hang around, you know, smoking cigarettes and watching TV and all that.
		We see them actively engaged in the abduction phenomenon as well.
		And recently, in the thread, I've talked a little bit about hybrid life.
		You know, what do hybrids do Saturday night and all that sort of stuff?
		And what we see is these sort of class or learning situations where hybrid children are learning things, and we see older hybrids having tasks within the abduction scenario.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you're talking about hybrids that are here.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		No, this is all on board the object.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Everything here is on board the object so far.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay.
		Why not believe, then, that they are here as well?
		Why, perhaps we would not see a drastic difference in a hybrid.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Anything is possible, and my guess is that you probably would not be able to tell, because what I found is that hybridization is not simply taking egg and sperm and putting them together and altering the zygote in some way, that there is stages of hybridization, and they become increasingly more human while retaining key sort of alien qualities.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		And I know that this sounds totally insane, as I said it would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, it doesn't.
		no, it doesn't, Doctor.
		I mean, if it's going on, then everything else you've said would follow.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		There's a certain logic that's built in here that it all sort of inexorably points to.
		It doesn't point to many other directions from what I can see.
		But the point is that the hybrids, when they're young, they're extremely interested in Earth.
		They're extremely interested in the flora and the fauna.
		They're interested in four-legged animals, and they're interested in family structure, and they're interested in all sorts of things like that.
		As if their interest is leading to, I mean, they're interested in so much in Earth that you begin to suspect that there's no reason why they're interested in Earth.
		And then I got lots of reports of aliens, of the hybrids and aliens, just saying that in the future we'll all be together and you'll be very happy and we're going to be happy and we're just going to love each other to death.
		And in the future, you know, when we're here with you.
		In other words, there's never any discussion of finishing a program and going away and saying thanks for your cooperation and we'll see you later and goodbye and good luck.
		It's always, when discussions of the future take place, it's always here on earth with you.
		And to me, that's slightly unsettling, to tell you the truth.
		I don't know what to make of all that, but I've come to think that this is why they're doing these hybrids, who in the later stage hybrids look really very human, quite human.
		So the question then is, well, are they walking around and working at the 7-Eleven and all that?
		And I used to say, oh, no, no, no, there's no evidence for that at all.
		But now I've been hearing reports from people saying that they used to know a person and they think that this person was a hybrid.
		And of course, my first answer is, well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
		But then they would go ahead and begin to describe various traits of this person and the oddities of it.
		I think, well, God, I don't know.
		Maybe he's onto something here, you know.
		And so, and I've heard so many of these stories that I'm thinking, well, I've moved to the position of, I don't know, as opposed to, no, I don't think so.
		That's the best I can do.
		But I can't say absolutely not anymore.
		I've heard too many stories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, whether they're there or here would depend on what the ultimate motivation is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if you would think that if you believe it to be what you just suggested, that is a complete integration.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		It does appear that way.
		And let me say, Art, that this is not a position that I revel in.
		It's not something that I ever, ever could have imagined that I could have not only taken, but even thought about.
		It's just so inconceivable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A more dramatic word would be invasion, which might not be inaccurate at all, huh?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, in a sense, I think that the UFO phenomenon is an invasion.
		I think that we've already been invaded.
		I think we're looking at it right now.
		It's not an occupation, but it is an invasion, I think.
		And I think that this has been going on for maybe 100 years.
		Maybe it'll last me a little bit more, but around that time.
		And so this is, and I think that ultimately the occupation may be coming later.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They say that we will love it, that we will all be together and love e-dovey and living happily ever after and all of that.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I sense, you know, quite by that totally.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, they say, as one other key told me, she said that they told her that everyone would know his place.
		And there's that.
		When we take a look at alien society, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They would know their place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's like the third Reich.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly right.
		When I look at alien society, I see a far more regimented society than ours is, a society that has a lot less individuality, that is much more involved with a group ethic, and a society that does not value privacy or anything like that.
		And I don't like that kind of society.
		To me, that is an alien society.
		And the problem here is that these beings have certain powers, certain sort of physical and mental abilities that we do not have.
		And they all seem to have it, and so do the hybrids.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can I ask a dumb question?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		There are no such thing as dumb questions.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		There are only dumb answers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You characterized how they would like it to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And as you characterized how they would like it to be, you were characterizing Japanese or Chinese culture.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, but they're still within a certain free ethic.
		That is to say, people have a freedom to do what they want to do to a certain extent, maybe less or maybe more in those societies, and certainly more in Japan than maybe in China.
		But the way I took this sentence, that this person who was extremely reliable in her memories, I must say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even more dramatically, you took it, obviously.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I took it as reflective of their own society and their own society, just from what I can tell anyway.
		And you have to take everything I say with a boulder of salt, obviously.
		But I just don't feel that this society is a society that any one of us would want to live in.
		Now, the problem here is more than that.
		The problem is that these beings have the ability to control us neurologically, and they can do it from a distance.
		In other words, they can render people passive, and they must be able to do that so that they can conduct abductions.
		Otherwise, he would scream and fear and throw rocks and this.
		Of course.
		And absolutely everybody who is abducted goes directly into this passive state, and they do it before these beings even enter into their room.
		They're already sort of into this world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any way for you to guess, Doctor, how many abductions are going on on an annual basis or over the last decade?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any way you can speak to whether there have been more or fewer or what's going on?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		You know, there isn't any way to gauge that right now.
		The closest we've ever been able to come is through that rover poll, flawed though it might have been.
		And what we did was we simply asked abductees a lot of questions about unusual experiences in their life, and then we asked non-abductees a lot of questions about unusual experiences in their life.
		And we filtered out those questions that abductees answered positively to in the highest numbers, and we asked those questions of 6,000 people randomly selected around the country.
		And we came up with a fairly high number that we whittled down in a slightly arbitrary way to only 2% of the American population, but it's probably higher than that.
		It's probably 5%, I would say, and maybe even higher than that.
		And the problem is that we can't really know because it's a clandestine phenomenon.
		And what we know is that tens of thousands of abductees have come forward and said things have happened to them.
		But maybe 99.999% of all abductees would answer no to that, even though they're being abducted on a daily basis, for example.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of the totality of the number of abductees, how many reported by percentage sexual contact?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, you see, the problem is that they know they've been abducted.
		They might remember being on board a UFO and having missing time.
		They might remember little snippets, bits and pieces of that.
		But sexual contact, they're not necessarily going to remember, as they're not going to remember maybe 99% of everything else that's happened to them without competent investigation.
		But now the question you're asking, is it sexual or is it reproductive that you're looking at?
		Is it sexual contact or is it reproductive?
unidentified		Well, you know, I've heard both.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, I've had people on my show that I consider very serious who have reported what they say is sexual contact, which results, I guess, in reproduction, but then the opposite as well, those who report sort of a clinical type of reproductive investigation.
		Doctor, hold on, we're at the top of the hour.
		We'll be right back.
		Dr. David M. Jacobs is my guest, Associate Professor of History at Temple University.
		And by now, you should be listening very carefully.
		I'm Art Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an on-court presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 29th, 2001.
		Everybody is looking for something.
		Some of them want to use you.
		Some of them want to get used by you.
		Some of them want to abuse you.
		Some of them want to be abused Sweet deep on me.
		Touching the bag on the beam.
		You need it to be what you want to be.
		No, you can't fool me.
		I've been loving you too long.
		It started so easy.
		You're welcome.
		Carry on Carry on Carry on I'm lost in love and I don't know much Was I thinking of love?
		I'm not a touch but I'm back on my feet Thank you.
		I love you.
		He is the first thing you love.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 29th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be me.
		Good morning.
		doctor david and jacobs associate professor of history temple university is my guest and he'll be right back Back now to Temple University's Dr. David Jacobs.
		Dr. Jacobs, welcome back.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is, you realize, of course, when you talk about this, and it's been a long time since you've been on my program, a fairly long time, and a lot of new listeners are out there, and they're going, oh my God, could this really be going on all around us?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Right, well, let me just say in terms of the statistics I said before, was that we don't really know how many people are actually abductees.
		All we can say is how many of them had experiences similar to those who are abductees.
		So we can't really know that.
		But we do know that it is going on all around us because people all around us are reporting it all the time.
		And on my website, I have a little questionnaire for people to fill out, which I unfortunately can't answer every one.
		But I've gotten questionnaires from all around the world, people who have obviously had very unusual experiences that relates to abductions from what I can tell.
		Although one can never know that, obviously, without investigation.
		And we know that this has happened.
		And I've worked with people who were born in Asia and Africa and, of course, Europe and Latin America and just everywhere.
		And this is a global phenomenon, and that, of course, that is consistent with what we've been talking about before, the ultimate purposes of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would it be your guess that it's uniformly global or that there are hotspots or just hot reporting spots?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		That's an excellent question.
		I don't know whether it's uniformly global because I don't know what's happening in Nepal, for example, or Tibet or whatever.
		But we do have, well, the concept of a hotspot really, really isn't a concept.
		Every person who's from every town in the country has come rushing up to me to tell me that their town is a hotspot of UFO activity, and it's just everywhere.
		Every town seems to be that way, at least what people tell me.
		But what happens sometimes is that this is an intergenerational phenomenon.
		That is to say, if a person is abducted, the chances are that their mother or their father was an abductee as well.
		And unfortunately, it happens to the children.
		And so you get families and generations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would you imagine that to be true?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, we don't know that exactly.
		We just don't know why it's not completely random.
		I personally think that there might be certain alterations that are made genetically which allow for abduction procedures to take place.
		In other words, for telepathy communication to take place, that sort of thing, which I think might be the reason for it.
		But I really don't know.
		I don't have the evidence for that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could just be genetic follow-up.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		It could be that.
		It could be that.
		But I think there might be a little bit more to it.
		But the point is, though, that in some towns which are more isolated, for example, in Brazil or whatever, there'll be a lot of UFO activity.
		And people will start saying that there's a lot of UFOs in this town in the middle of nowhere.
		And what has happened, my guess is, and once again, I'm speculating here, but I think I might be right about this.
		I don't know.
		But is that if the abduction phenomenon is intergenerational, what happens is the people who grow up in this town tend to marry into each other.
		They marry people down the block, and then everybody eventually becomes sort of semi-related.
		They're cousins and this and that, and they have large, large, large, extended families.
		And you get a very rapid growth of abduction activity in that town, and abductees tend to see UFOs in extremely high numbers compared to non-abductees.
		Right.
		And so that's where you get these little hotspots in the middle of nowhere that makes no sense otherwise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, preparation.
		Are we talking about something that you believe is a many generations-long project before culmination?
		Is there a culmination to all of this?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I think there is.
		And there's two sides to that question.
		I guess the first side to the question is, when did this all start?
		And the key to this is the intergenerational aspect of it.
		We know that it did not start back in the year zero.
		We know that because if it is intergenerational, it won't take very many generations through normal spreading out through the society for everybody to be an abductee.
		In other words, it will spread.
unidentified		Sure.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, anyway, so if it started in the year zero, well, by the year 100 or 200, everybody would have been an abductee, and we're not.
		And if it started in the 13th century, everybody would be an abductee.
		And if it started in the 14th or 15th or 16th or 17th century, probably everybody would be an abductee.
		But only a small percentage of the society is.
		So my guess is that it did start probably around the 1880s, 1890s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it will, you know, is that a total guess, or is that when we begin to have hints of reports that were made or records kept of some sort?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		The mystery airship wave took place starting in 1896, 1897, and I know a lot of people feel that this was just a sort of folklore spread, so to speak.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		But in my opinion, I think that this might, in fact, have been the first UFO wave, and people were seeing these things, and I think that this might have been the onset of it, at least thereabouts within that decade, anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do we think we know about them?
		In other words, are they from another space in current linear time?
		Do you think they're dimensional beings of some sort?
		What's your thinking these days about that?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, once again, that you can go directly to the evidence for, and that is when people ask them where they're from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		And they do answer that every once in a while if they deign to answer, and I have to admit most of the time they don't deign to answer.
		But one would expect that the answers, if they were interdimensional, to be something like, we live here among you all the time.
		We're from here, there, and everywhere.
		There's some sort of dimensional.
		Well, we don't really get that.
		Or if they were from time travelers, and there's built-in problems with time travelers, they'd say, we're from your future, or whatever, you know.
		But actually, they invariably will say, well, we're from another place.
		And they'll indicate a place in the sky.
		Sometimes they'll point up and they'll say, look in that direction and look towards that star and look down a little bit and that's where we're from.
		So they usually point to a point in space that would be commensurate with our own space-time continuum.
		And they don't live in a parallel universe necessarily or another dimension or anything, which of course doesn't.
		It shouldn't matter one way or the other.
		I mean, the point is, it's not where they're from that's important.
		It's what they're doing here.
		That's the important thing.
		But the odd thing is, is that if this were psychological, well, we'd know where they were from and everybody would have an answer.
		I mean, because that's the very first thing that people think of.
		when they're inventing an alien, they always say that the alien came up to them and said they came in peace and they're from the planet Vortec and their name is York, you know.
		But we don't get names for aliens, although hybrids sometimes are given names by people.
		And we don't know where they're from after all this time.
		Now, there might be a reason for that.
		And the reason is because there's an awful lot of stars up there in the sky.
		More than I can even count.
		And some of those stars have names, and some of those stars have numbers.
		Most don't.
		And therefore, I don't know whether they know whether what they're pointing to, the star would have a name or a number for us.
		My guess is it probably would have something.
		But would they even know that?
		So it may be not possible, in a sense, for them to tell us where they're from in a way that we could understand.
		I'm guessing now, man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it your sense that they want us and what they can reproductively achieve with us for some end, or they want our planet, or both?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that the planet is the prize.
		In other words, one of the things that we noticed, you can take a look at what the evidence is, but you can also take a look at what people don't say.
		And one of the things that one would expect them to say, and we should be getting, is quite a lot of interest in the political, social, and economic institutions of the society.
		And what is an election, and what is a hanging chat, or any question like that.
		But actually, we virtually never get any concern or interest in anything societal or political or economic or historical or anything like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can understand a disinterest in our politics.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, when you consider what their probable goals are, do they really care whether the president's tax package passes or not?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably not.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, they don't even ask what is a president.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		They don't ask anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's worth noting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's certainly worth noting.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		And so my guess is that they don't have any concerns, that this is not in the agenda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then metaphorically, instead of being taken to our leader, they're simply going to be our leaders.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		I think that's what this means.
		Now, once again, I'm extrapolating here, obviously, but that their society, their rules, their regulations, their structure will be the one that is salient, not ours.
		That's the one that's important to them, not ours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got it.
		So what do we know about that?
		In other words, what do we think we know about their social media?
unidentified		Right.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, we see a hierarchy on board these objects.
		There are order givers and order takers.
		From what I can gather, the ones that are in charge are what people sometimes call insect-like ones or insectoids or whatever.
		And they are very thin.
		They don't have any sort of mouth, really, and they don't have any sort of nose or earholes that the gray aliens seem to have.
		And they're taller as well.
		And they actually will sometimes wear a sort of an odd kind of gown that's quite distinctive and quite striking that there's quite a lot of drawings about now that people don't know that this has been drawn before.
		We'll draw it and say everything like this before.
		And I'll look at that and say, my God, that's the standard one that we see on these other types of beings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounded like a queen bee.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, in a sense, that's true.
		It's sort of a special collar and all that.
		But anyway, they're the center of activity in the Queen Bee style.
		And then come, and I'm going to have to be vague here about reptilians because I really don't know much about reptilians.
		I don't see them much, and I have a feeling that these are sort of offshoot things.
		But then come aliens, the taller aliens who do most of the specialized procedures for abductees, and the smaller aliens who do more of the menial tasks.
		And then come, I think, hybrids.
		And then there's early and middle and late stage hybrids, which might look more alien, middle, and then more human.
		And they have special tasks that they perform too, depending on the degree of hybridization.
		And then comes abductees.
		And I think that's sort of the packing order that we see here.
		But when you take a look at what happens during abduction activity, it is all extremely systematized.
		There's no standing around and wondering what to do next.
		There's no joking.
		There's no downtime.
		There's no taking a plunge in the pool in the back.
		There's nothing like that.
		It's just strictly business, mister.
		And that's all we see.
		Now, of course, we're looking at this from a specialized point of view.
		We're looking at it from the view of the abductee, and that's the only time that they see them usually is in this kind of procedure.
		And so you have to extrapolate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's not necessarily a comprehensive comment then on their social structure.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And it's hard to build a society from what you see inside a hospital, you know.
		But yet, it can be done.
		We can make a lot of kind of generalizations from what we see.
		And we see a society that is telepathically oriented.
		And I actually have written an article that's been published in a couple of different countries on the idea of what happens in a telepathic society.
		And it's a society you wouldn't want to live in.
		You want privacy.
		You don't want telepathy.
		You want to keep your thoughts to yourself, basically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in such a society, there would be no secrets.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		It depends on the degree of telepathy and how open the society is.
		But certainly the whole concept of secrecy and privacy would be extremely different than the kind that society we have.
		And the group ethic is all important.
		And when we take a look at these aliens of any sort, they all pretty much look alike, you know, and they act alike, and they pretty much think alike, and you don't see rebels and that sort of stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, it starts to sound an awful lot like communism.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		In a sense, you know, people have compared it to that, or certainly, as you said, to the Third Reich before.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		And now, those are obviously extrapolations, but you can't help but do that as you see, as more and more people come forward with these descriptions of what's happening to them, and you realize that the other side of this is how these beings are acting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe this is a silly question, but has it ever occurred to you that saying what you're saying, if you're right, could perhaps be a really dangerous thing for you?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think so.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		And I don't think so because, number one, I'm not an abductee and my parents weren't and my children aren't and all that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wasn't imagining you to be abducted.
		I was imagining you to cease living.
		In other words, if you're really onto this, the last thing they would want is premature disclosure.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And I think that the bottom line for them is interruption of the activity itself, interruption of the program.
		That's where they draw the line.
		I don't think they particularly care if people know it as long as they don't stop it.
		And you have to remember now, Ark, that I'm on the fringe of the fringe.
		And what I'm saying here is completely insane for most scientists, for most academics, and for most people in general.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a good point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you get away with it?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		And well, the point is that what I say and what other researchers say has almost no effect whatsoever on anybody or anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, what I mean is how do you get away with it academically?
		Just as a matter of curiosity, how do you get away with it?
		I mean, John Mack, you know what happened to him.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		There is a price to pay in academics if you do this.
		And you'll notice that you introduced me as associate professor of history.
		Yes.
		I'm sure that the audience knows that there's three levels of professor.
		There's assistant, there's associate, that means with tenure, and there's full, that means sort of with national recognition.
		We're all professors, but those are the stepping stones.
		And I will remain associate professor of history as long as I continue to do this work.
		That's the price.
		And so even though I've published more than many of my colleagues who have already been promoted and all that, this is an area which is considered to be illegitimate.
		And so it takes a toll on you.
		There is a toll to be exacted, so to speak.
		But for me, it's worth it.
		It's something that I made a decision about a long time ago.
		and uh...
		that's just just part of the deal you don't expect any There have been things at Temple which didn't go as far as John's did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They started after you, huh?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		There was that.
		There was that, yes.
		And once again, academics is just not the place for unconventional thought.
		One would think that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to have to consider that one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, geez.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		But I don't want to, I'm not talking about myself in that.
		I mean, I don't want anybody to feel sorry for me.
		This is something that I've, you know, this is a decision that I've made and a choice that I've elected to follow, so to speak.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And yet, without you there, in other words, you need, we need your sort of authority to be able to speak out, so what you do is supremely important.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, as I've said before, one doesn't have the opportunity to make a contribution in a field of enormous potential importance or potentially enormous importance very often in one's life.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		And I sort of kind of went on that pathway and just continued on it against all reason and sanity, I guess, and have just continued through my entire adult life doing this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold on, Doctor.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		Dr. David M. Jacobs is here, Associate Professor of History at Temple.
		I'm Art Bell, and we're talking about the abduction phenomenon.
		Many, many tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people have had it happen to them.
		Maybe you're one of those.
		If you are, you know what the doctor is talking about.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 29, 2001.
		She's coming in 12 hours light.
		The moonlit wings reflect the stars that guide her towards salvation.
		I stopped an old man along the way, hoping to find some old forgotten words or ancient mellow games.
		He turned to me as if to say, So many people, but it's God knows when it's taken you so long to find out you were wrong when you thought it held everything.
		You used to think that it was so easy.
		You used to think that it was so easy.
		But you're trying, you're trying now.
		How do you make it be happy?
		How do we make it be happy?
		You're crying, you're crying now.
		The End You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 29th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you listening to what Dr. Jacobs is saying?
unidentified		Are you really listening to what he's saying?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's underway right now on our planet?
unidentified		With our people, our men and our women?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And toward what end?
		Are you really listening?
		All right, back now to Professor Jacobs.
		Professor, somebody from Columbus, Ohio sent me a really interesting fast blast on my computer.
		And they're absolutely correct.
		I mentioned communism earlier, and Stanley in Columbus says, you know, he's not talking about communism.
		He's talking about a hive.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think that there's something to that because I do think that the closest that you can relate this to is a sort of hive mentality where you've got workers and other sort of specialized beings who are just working for one purpose, one goal essentially, and that's for the survival of the hive or for whatever the goal these beings are working for.
		And I think that's a good analogy.
		You know, this subject is such that I really have become so, I don't know if it's a word as disenchanted with it, but I used to be so excited about studying it.
		And when I was younger, I was so thrilled with it and very much taken by the intellectual challenge that it posed.
		And now I find it to be really difficult to deal with.
		And it's scary.
		And I don't like what I hear.
		And I don't want people to tell me what they tell me.
		And as part of the, there's lots of problems with hypnosis, obviously, and I've gone into that in the thread.
		And there's a wonderful essay on hypnosis in UFOs and Abductions, Challenging the Boards of Knowledge book from Kansas, by Bud Hopkins.
		But one of the problems that I had when I first started doing hypnosis was that I was too credulous.
		I was just sort of taking what people said at face value.
		And I got caught on that very, very early on and realized the mistake I was making.
		And it was a wonderful thing to be caught so early on at this problem.
		But the fact is, though, that, oh gosh, I sort of lost the train for my thought right now.
		Anyway, hypnosis is something that is very, very useful in studying this subject, and yet we have to be very careful with it.
		And everything that I've been saying is in large part based on hypnotically retrieved testimony, and so you have to take that into consideration.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But for most American people to imagine a future in which we're part of a hive and happy by, I guess, their standards, not ours, that's what you have wars and die for.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Exactly right.
		And I just don't like hearing those things.
		And this is not, and as I said, it's not a position I've adopted because I just think it's some sort of a wonderful triumph or something like that.
		In fact, in hypnosis, now I picked up my train of thought.
		What I've done is I've tried to instill in people to see what will happen the idea that they shouldn't tell me anything bad.
		And I've taken at times for some people to have that said, I'll say, I don't want you to tell me anything bad as the last thing I say before we do a regression session to see if it affects anything that they will say later on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and the answer is, no, it doesn't affect anything they say.
		They couldn't care less what I say.
		What they're interested in is just remembering what happened to them, you know.
		But in other words, I've tried to, in some way, put some sort of checks on what I'm hearing just to make sure that what I'm hearing is coming out of me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I hear you.
		What are the ethics of what you do?
		In other words, if you have somebody under and they tell you of their abduction experience and it is bad, it is like most of the ones you hear.
		When they're out of it, how do you deal with telling them what happened to them?
		How frank and open are you with that?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they remember everything, of course, that's happened to them.
		And for them, what's bad is what happens to them physically, usually, personally, and that sort of thing, the intrusive quality of it and all that.
		And there is, as we sort of talked about a little bit before, a sexual or reproductive aspect to it.
		And I deal with that right then and there in this session.
		I mean, they need help getting over that.
		And I will intervene right then and there, and we'll talk about it a little bit before they resume their kind of story.
		The other things, though, like what this all means and what it's pointing to, they generally don't know that.
		All I know is that they're standing in front of a class of little kids, maybe nine years old, all of them are hybrid, and the hybrids are asking them questions about Earth in some way, and they're answering the questions.
		That's what they know.
		In other words, it's hard for them to put it in a larger context, because I am fortunate enough to be able to hear lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of these kinds of accounts, and I can kind of put it together into a context that makes sense.
		But most abductees don't know that.
		All they know is what happened to them, so they don't understand that what they're saying is maybe ominous in some way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But isn't it a little like being a rape counselor and counseling a victim and having to tell them that it's going to happen again and again?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, most of them know that it's already happened many times in the course of their life.
		They've already generally outlined a whole series of odd experiences in their life that they want to look at, that they might, you know, they think maybe it's related, maybe it isn't, but they know that they've had a whole lot of odd things.
		However, you're right, it is like being a rape counselor to a certain extent.
		And everybody who does this kind of work becomes a therapist.
		And I was fortunate enough to work with a psychologist on this for a number of years beforehand.
		And so you are a therapist.
		You have to say the right thing at the right time right now.
		I mean, you can't let things slide.
		You've got to help people over the difficult areas that they encounter.
		And you have to follow up and keep in touch with them.
		And that's what I do.
		And so that, in other words, I take somebody on.
		And that means a certain amount of emotional output on my part and time and all that.
		Oh, I'm sure.
		And they can see me for as many times as they want.
		It's up to them usually.
		And of course, I don't charge for anything that I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		I know.
		Let me ask you this, Doctor.
		I'm trying to think as they would think.
		And before they leave your office, they're going to want to know if it can be stopped, if it can be slowed down.
		I'm sure that's what they ask about.
		And you said there are some, at least, part measures that can be taken.
		What are those?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And the answer is that they do want to know that, but I tell them usually right away that what I'll do with that, with them, is we'll work for a form of intellectual and emotional control over the subject so they can get their lives back in order.
		But I can't give them physical control.
		I can't stop it from happening.
		Now, having said that, as you know from previous conversations, we've had a whole heck of a lot of people who slept underneath the watchful eye of a video camera that's on SLP with a T160 tape in it that will run for eight straight hours.
		And as long as that camera is on and as long as everything is working properly, they will not be abducted.
		But that doesn't mean that they won't get up at 3 o'clock in the morning and walk towards the camera, as I have tapes showing them doing, and turning it off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And that doesn't mean that they won't get up at 3 o'clock in the morning or whatever it is.
		Now, this is at nighttime stuff anyway.
		And walk out of the room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Or just not turn it on, decide, oh, I don't need that camera tonight.
		What do I need that for?
		Oh, I just, I'll be fine.
		I just won't turn it on.
		Followed by an event.
		And it doesn't mean that they're not going to be abducted during the day or watching television earlier that evening when there is no video camera trained on them.
		So it's extremely limited, but at the same time, it gives them a sense of protection, at least.
		It gives them a sense of some sort of control, no matter how small, and it allows them to sleep easier, and it gives them a more peaceful feeling, in a sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		That's the macrocosm of the single patient.
		What about the bigger picture, Doctor?
		I mean, if what you're saying is true, there's an invasion underway right now.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that's the UFO phenomenon, right?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		That's what we're looking at, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but I mean, with a specific intent that you've described, which is going to turn us into a social hive.
		Now, a lot of us aren't real happy about that concept.
		And the question would be, how do we as a planet, as a people, I mean, what do you counsel about this?
		Shouldn't we be at war?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		You know, this is such a difficult area.
		Number one, I think that there's too much water under the bridge.
		i don't really don't think that there's much we can do about it now maybe fifty years earlier or earlier we might have been able to Well, the problem here is that it's already advanced through the generations of the 20th century.
		And we don't know who 99% of abductees are.
		So we really don't know where the front lines are, so to speak.
		And the other thing is that you're dealing with a technologically advanced civilization that is necessarily technologically advanced, that they can get here from there.
		And it's not just that it's technologically advanced.
		And the key problem here, I think, is that it is neurologically advanced.
		That is, they can control us and we cannot control them.
		And it's sort of a triple whammy in a sense.
		So I don't think there's a whole heck of a lot we can do about it.
		But the problem here is that the scientific community just has that aversion to this.
		And so we haven't had a whole lot of people putting their heads together to try to figure out if there is something that can be done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, Professor, what you're saying tonight has a lot potentially in common with Zacharias Sitchin, doesn't it?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, Sitchin, of course, thinks that there was alien contact way back when.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That we were gold miners, actually.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Slaves, hive-type civilization?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's something that I don't know can ever be proven or looked at.
		So he might be right, of course.
		There's always that possibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, the social structure that he described, that we were originally, would fit into what you've described socially, wouldn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, the hive-type thing.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I guess it would.
		But this is going to be, I think what we're looking at here is a very, very alien society.
		For example, with telepathy, in telepathy, and I do have this article that I'm submitting to IUR, International UFO Reporter, about this, if they'll run it, which they may not because it may not be appropriate for them.
		But with telepathy, you have a situation where you don't have a verbal society, and therefore, even when you look at aliens, you don't see, for example, any kind of facial expression to give you a hint of the exact, for example, you can say something to somebody and raise an eyebrow and they know that you don't mean it, that you're saying the exact opposite to it.
		Nothing like that exists in this kind of a society, at least in terms of expressiveness.
		We don't see body language, and we see a very restricted range of emotions.
		And as a result of that and this restricted range of emotions, the whole world of art and music and literature and color and emotions is very, very different than what we have.
		The only thing that we can relate to that they have is this sort of extreme logical mentality for them.
		In other words, they have science and 2 plus 2 equals 4 no matter where you are.
		And they have advanced science, and therefore they can think logically, and they can do it really, really, really well.
		And that's the major touch point.
		After that, all bets are off in the kind of society that they live in.
		And, you know, it's just, it's really not human.
		And when you think about what makes us human, what makes us different from other animals, well, one of the things is our ability to enjoy, our ability to have this sort of expansive emotional expression that gives us all the arts and all the enjoyment and the recreation, everything that everybody loves that we don't necessarily see within the kind of society that these beings represent.
		What we see is a society of work, a society of progress, a society of logic and science, and that's it.
		So now I may be wrong about that, obviously, but I think that you can really build a substantial case for that just to the idea of restricted emotional range and telepathy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then are you saying we might as well, socially, you're sort of saying we might as well relax and enjoy it, huh?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		You know, I don't know what to do about it in the future.
		That might be as good an advice as any.
		I really don't know.
		I'm at a loss as to say this is what we should do.
		You know, I've got the answer here.
		This is what we immediately must summon the president and the United Nations.
		I don't know if any of that is worth doing.
		I suppose it is.
		I suppose that it's better to know than not to know.
		And I suppose it's better to try to maintain the good aspects of human civilization rather than to give them up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I certainly wouldn't want to go silently into that alien night you've just described.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, neither would I, that's for sure.
		And now, obviously, I'm speculating here, and I could be completely off-base on this.
		But if you read the threats, you'll see that there is a certain kind of inexorable logic that leads to this.
		And it's not something that I enjoyed.
		It's not a place that I enjoyed going to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think that other researchers in larger numbers have not come to some of the same conclusions that you've come to?
		There are so many advocates of warm and fuzzy and organized to that.
		Why do you think that is?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that I've been fortunate in that I've been able to give a tremendous amount of time and energy to this.
		I've made this sort of my work, and my teaching schedule is such that I can spend several days at home doing work, and I've been able to work with people over long periods of time.
		I see people who I saw 15 years ago, and I've been able to watch what's happened to them over a long course of time.
		And I've been able to dig very, very deeply and very minutely into people's experiences.
		And I've had that luxury.
		A lot of people just can't do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's a question for you, Doctor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that if your conclusions had been less controversial about the nature of the entire phenomena, that you wouldn't have been challenged as academically as you have been?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
		I think you're absolutely right.
		When Secret Life came out, which was a very non-committal book about when people say they're abducted, what do they actually say?
		What happens to them?
		And I sort of had this kind of matrix which put everything into a kind of a chronological and typographical sense that it was sort of okay.
		I maintained a sort of low profile, but when the threat came out, people really got fairly worked up over that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, understandably.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if there's such a thing as traditional ufology, that's where you sort of went off the track.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, what I did was I followed the evidence and I speculated more in the threat than I did in Secret Life.
		But Secret Life, you can see the same thing in that book.
		If you look in that book, you'll see the logical aspects of it that point to everything in the threat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old are you now?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm reaching the ripe old age of 59 in August.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		I'm 58 right now, but I'll be 59 in August.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm about to be 56.
		And what I've noted is, and maybe this is true of you, as you get older, you're less inclined to serve stuff up softly.
		You're more inclined to want to tell the brutal truth and care less about it.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, to a certain extent that went into it, maybe it's hubris or ego or vanity, I don't know, but I felt that I could advance the first sort of evidence-driven idea or hypothesis about what this is about that has yet been advanced.
		Now, you've got to remember, and it's important for everybody in the audience to keep this in the absolute forefront of their temporal lobes, and that is that this is human memory recovered through hypnosis administered by amateurs.
		You've got to keep that in mind.
		This is as weak an evidence, an evidentiary body as one can have.
		It doesn't get much worse than this.
		At the same time, we have tremendous amounts of it, and even the weakness of it can be controlled for to a certain extent.
		And a lot of the accounts are done without hypnosis.
		And a lot of the people who I've worked with have PhDs and MDs and are well aware of all the problems of testimony themselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, on that note, hold on, Doctor.
		We'll be right back.
		As a matter of fact, we may talk with some abductees.
		If you're an abductee, try to get through to us in this next hour.
		That's what we're going to be looking for.
		People who have experienced what Dr. Jacobs is talking about.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 29, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from May 29, 2001.
		Jenny was me.
		Oh, In the night, it's a move.
		It's alive, take it down.
		In the day, nothing matters.
		It's a night, doesn't matter.
		In the night, no control through the wall.
		Something like this where we might as well walk down the street of the floor.
		You take me down, you take a self-control.
		You don't believe me, only for the light.
		You both walk the story home.
		You take me down, you take a self-control.
		Another night, another day go back.
		Another time, another one over.
		You have to do, forget to play my home.
		You take me up, you take me.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired May 29th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, that would be me.
unidentified		I have it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I guess you too, huh?
		The will to fight.
		You know, that's really what we're talking about, is the will to fight.
		I wonder if we have it.
		If you've been listening for the last two hours, then you understand what I mean about the will to fight.
		My guest is Dr. David M. Jacobs, and I think that really is a central question.
		If this is true, do we have the will to fight?
		We're going to be taking calls from abductees only this hour.
		If you're an abductee, go ahead and dial.
		Otherwise, just sit back and listen.
		In about an hour, we'll be in open lines.
		But right now, abductees only.
unidentified		You're welcome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, Dr. David M. Jacobs.
		And Doctor, welcome back.
		Great to have you.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The will to fight.
		I mean, that really is the question.
		If what you're saying becomes general knowledge, then it's going to come down to that, whether we have the will to fight.
		And I suppose also whether we even have the ability to fight.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that's it.
		Yeah, do we have the ability to resist what's happening?
		And we certainly don't right now, it seems to me.
		I mean, it's hard enough for us to stop individual abductions.
		And I know that there have been people who claim that they can and all that.
		But the problem is that most people, when they have abduction experiences, don't even know it themselves, so they don't know what's happened to them, and it's hard for them to say that they've stopped something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If a highly placed U.S. military source came to you and said, Doctor, your research is, we're going to tell you right on the money.
		We've known about this for some time.
		It is indeed, as you wrote in the book entitled The Same Thing, A Threat to Our National Security, to World Security.
		What can you tell us about how to combat this?
		What would you say to him?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, I would say I don't have the foggiest notion.
		I would say I really don't know how to combat it.
		I'm despairing of that.
		Of course, I don't really think in those terms of combating and fighting and all that.
		What I think in terms of is just figuring out what the heck is going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but you've already figured out a lot of that, I mean, in terms of what's happening.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm waiting for other people to come forward and sort of verify and validate what I found.
		And it might be a long wait, but I think I've done a certain amount of it.
		And I think that there are people who are specialists in this sort of resistance, of people in the government, perhaps, or people in the psychological or psychiatric community, who might be able to figure out some ways.
		But I think that the first thing that we ought to do is get together people, large numbers of people, who can think very systematically about this in concert and come up with some sort of a plan, no matter how small, and see if it's workable.
		But, you know, all this is just, I mean, this is not going to happen probably in my lifetime.
		It's just, it's unthinkable at this point.
		I mean, it's something that what I'm saying is simply totally crazy, and every right-thinking person out there should be thinking that even as I say it.
		So, I mean, you just, I'm sort of at a forward point, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're really interesting to listen to.
		I mean, on the one hand, very self-deprecating all the time here.
		I'm crazy.
		Not I'm crazy.
		It's crazy.
		It's crazy to say this, but you obviously firmly believe it.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I do, and I think that I'm, let's put it this way, I'm persuaded by the evidence.
		I think that the evidence is fairly strong for what I found.
		And I haven't found anything to go back on.
		In other words, in Secret Life, which came out in 1992, it's been nine years since that book came out.
		We've learned an awful lot since that book came out.
		And I look at that book and I say, you know, that's a pretty good book.
		There's a few things I changed in that book, but not much else.
		In other words, my own research and the research of others has not found much of anything that would take that book in a very different direction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, it's held up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What you thought and thought about then holds up today.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I think that that's going to happen with the threat also, although it's a lot more speculative and therefore I'm a lot more vulnerable and I might be a lot wronger about certain aspects of it.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		But I feel that the people who I've worked with and my own controls that I've had over the questions that I've asked and the answers that I've accepted have worked towards a certain solidity that I feel comfortable with, even though I fully realize how crazy it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How crazy it sounds, maybe.
		My lines are full of people who have been abducted waiting to talk to you.
		Let me ask you this.
		How many people that claim abduction do you think in reality have been abducted?
		How many are just suffering from a psychological go-along type thing?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		You know, I haven't found a whole lot of people who have a sort of, who feel that they're abductees and who aren't.
		I have found some.
		That does happen once in a while, but you know, as John Mack says, this is a club that nobody wants to belong to.
		And I think he's right about that.
		I think most people really are concerned about what has happened to them.
		Most people don't immediately think, oh my God, I've been abducted.
		They just know that there have been a whole series of odd things happening in their life, and they've been on a fishing expedition to try to figure out what it is.
		And it turns out to be this, even against their better judgment, in a sense.
		And so there's not a whole lot of wannabes.
		Now, there probably are out there, and maybe I just haven't encountered them because I screen other people pretty carefully before I see them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you screen them?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, they fill out a questionnaire, and if they ultimately get through to me, I have them jump through all sorts of hoops and hurdles before they get to me.
		I talk with them usually for a couple of hours before they actually enter into my office.
		And I normally can tell pretty much whether this is a substantial person or whether this person has got serious mental problems.
		I try not to go forward with people like that because we don't know how they're going to handle things that might have happened to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they don't make the best evidence.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		and they don't make any other thought to her right obviously and and so are consequently that I worked with one woman who became floridly schizophrenic, who had been hospitalized before I saw her.
		This was years ago when I was just beginning.
		And we had a whole bunch of sessions, and she progressively got worse and wound up in the hospital again.
		And her hallucinations and her fantasies, oddly enough, were not about the abduction phenomenon.
		They were about other things in her life, people plotting against her and this and that, interestingly enough.
		And of course, I didn't use any of her material in anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't mean it didn't happen to her.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		No, she was obviously an abductee.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		And the odd thing was, what she described was pretty much the same thing as everybody else described, you know, and I was genuinely concerned about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then it's possible that of that group, some really are abductees.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it doesn't matter that the abduction process itself begins to bring on the kind of psychological trauma that we're talking about here.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that that is true.
		I think that people have suffered silently in their lives thinking that they are totally insane.
		And I think that people who might have had those sort of proclivities, who might have had a kind of neurochemical imbalance that could have been functional throughout their lives might have been pushed over the brink by this phenomenon.
		yeah that makes sense it but but i don't think it causes the i think that the main mental problem that we've seen with this is depression Remarkable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, a lot of people online.
		Let's see what we've got.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Jacobs.
unidentified		Hello?
unidentified		This is Chris.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chris, you're going to have to yell at us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not too loud.
unidentified		This is Chris.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, Chris?
unidentified		North Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Dr. Jacobs, in your book, you stated that there was an individual who at one time you wanted to tell under deep regression hypnosis, and they refused to tell you things.
		And you respect that, and they were fearful.
		But you didn't press it in your book about whether that person was threatened or not to keep quiet.
		Yeah, that just moved on through the book and skipped those kind of people.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's happened a couple of times.
		I once had a session arranged for one person, and I mean, for a first session with a person, and we had talked for long periods of time, and everything was set up, and she came with a friend of hers, and after about two minutes, she just decided, no, no, no, no, that she wasn't going to tell me this stuff.
		She was not supposed to tell me this stuff.
		And she got up, and we never did do a session.
		And then I had another guy who I did 10 sessions with, and on the 11th session, I guess it was, we were doing a regression, and he was pretty much used to it and pretty much into it and all that.
		And he just sat bolt upright and said, I'm not supposed to tell you this.
		Really?
		And he got up, he mailed me all his tapes that I'd given him back to me.
		And he came to several abductee get-togethers that I have, and then he sort of moved out of the area, and he never left the forwarding address, and that was that.
		And we had 10 sessions together beforehand.
		And then I've had another woman who was told in no uncertain terms that what she was doing was wrong by telling me this, that she shouldn't be doing this.
		And I wrote this part up in the book, that they told her that what she was doing was she was endangering future generations by going to a gynecologist, by seeing me, and that sort of stuff.
		In other words, she was hurting their program in some way.
		But they tried to instill a certain amount of guilt in her as opposed to just warning her or anything like that.
		I've had other people who say that who tell them, I'm seeing Dave Jacobs and I'm telling him everything, and he knows all about you.
		And their answer is, you know, what do they care?
		There is no answer.
		Couldn't care less.
unidentified		Dr. Jacobs?
		Yes.
		In 1965, around the end of the World's Fair, I had a man who came to me who said he was me from the future, or more like not from the future, more like the past future of past Earth of a, what do they call it, alternate universe.
		He said he was from a gray ship, and he said that he was me.
		My father tried to call the police many a time, and I've seen him off and on through the years.
		And in 1965, we were in Salisbury Park walking across a field.
		He was talking about a Dr. Jacobs and a book called The Threat.
		Now, this was 1965.
		And he says this book was never around until years later.
		He said, in the 1990s, you're going to see a lot of books about the Grays.
		Everything before that, he says, is trash, basically.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's certainly right about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in other words, there it is, holding up your concept that this is all fairly recent phenomena.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Relatively recent phenomena.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Me, you mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, yes.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes.
		Now, I must say I've never heard anything like that, and that person certainly had abilities that I don't have, but certainly there's been a lot of really excellent works on abductions that came before me.
		I mean, there was, you know, Bud Hopkins Missing Time and Intruders and An Interrupted Journey by John Fuller and a whole bunch of other really excellent works.
		I mean, you can see our advancement of knowledge of this subject incrementally through the years, just like any other subject as more and more evidence accrues and more and more ideas come out of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but you have suggested that really this has not been going on since the year zero.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, it may be fairly recent.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Right, yes.
		And you do that just by going back through the generations, and you realize that it had to start at a certain point.
		It's like taking a look at the Big Bang, and you can see all the planets, all the stars flying apart, rather, and you know that they came from a central point at one time because they're all sort of flying from some direction.
		And that's the way the abduction phenomenon is intergenerationally.
		And if you go much past the mid-19th century, it starts not to make any sense then because the numbers don't add up.
		It's just a simple matter of arithmetic in terms of how many FFPs there would be if you started out with that X number of people in a population over the generations and it's intergenerational and X number of people are born.
		You know, you can just work out the math and it doesn't come out to very long.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about the people who would say, look, you're beginning to get all of this now because we have mass communications.
		We have television.
		We have the X-Files.
		We have movies.
		We have an injection psychologically of the whole alien phenomena thing and abduction and all the rest of it.
		And so people know what to tell you.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, they know more, I think, what to think about their own experiences, what to think about what's happened to them.
		But, you know, it's like the UFO phenomenon in general.
		After Kenneth Arnold had his sightings of UFOs and there were other sightings in 1947, then what do you do with all the rest of the sightings from 1947 on if people know what they look like and then they describe them again?
		You see what I mean?
		You just have to sort of factor that in, that there is this sort of general knowledge about the subject and maybe they are picking it up.
		But I'll tell you, when people come to me, they're wringing their hands with worry over two things.
		Number one, they don't want to be led.
		They don't want the hypnotist to lead them.
		They all know about leading, and they don't want to be led.
		That's the first thing they tell you.
		And the second thing that they're worried about is they don't want to pick up things in the society and parrot them back to me as if it happened to them.
		They're keenly, most people are extremely sensitive to that.
		They know it.
		And they're very careful about their own memories, and they're careful about what they think might have happened or might not have happened to them.
		And they'll discuss with you, well, I might have picked this up in the society.
		I might not have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now, what is the fact that a few moments ago you said that a number of patients have just abruptly got up, said, I shouldn't be talking about this, and left, and you've never seen them again?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Right, I've had a few of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if you've had those, and then you have a lot who don't seem to care or who apparently were not instructed to keep silent, what does that suggest about the phenomenon itself?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that, once again, that most people can go ahead and just describe what's ever happening to them, and these beings don't particularly care.
		The bottom line for them is as long as it does not interfere with the program, for them, continuing the program is the bottom line.
		That's where the line is drawn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would figure.
		Of course.
		Very quickly, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Jacobs.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Yeah, this is George, Santa Valley.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, George.
unidentified		Yeah, I wanted to ask Dr. Jacobs, has anyone ever told you that I was, I guess in probably was the late 50s, early 60s?
		I had the same dream go on for a while.
		It was like I was frozen.
		This little gray guy, you know, was swinging me by my feet.
		And I only could see it was stars and got shot out into space, you know.
		Like for about six years, the same thing would go on.
		I mean, the G-forces were just like, and I was just like paralyzed.
		You couldn't even scream or nothing.
		And I'm just looking up, you know.
		I'm flat on my back, and I'm getting like swung around.
		I kept thinking it was swinging me by my feet or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this went on for years.
unidentified		Yeah, for about six years.
		I mean, I'm 47 now.
		I still remember this thing, like, you know, and it's like, you know, and, you know, I couldn't scream or nothing.
		This thing just had me just scared to death, you know.
		I finally talked about this to somebody after I was listening to art shows.
		I got a hold of Roger and some other people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean Dr. Lear?
unidentified		Yeah, and he thought that I could be ducky, so I told him, you know, I always seem like I'm always being watched or something.
		Or I go out there, you know, the street lights are always going off and stuff.
		And I kept seeing those little off to the side, those spears, you know, and I'd have seen a big spirit that come down, you know, close to the house here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What you call a spirit, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's interesting, Doctor.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a lot of interesting things, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He said spirit.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Would people who are religious tend to interpret their experiences like exactly, and that's what you hear with older generations.
		They tended to interpret their experiences more religiously than the younger generations.
		Because the younger generations have alternatives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Talk about the great deception.
		All right.
		Hold on, Doctor.
		The invasion well underway?
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast A.M. You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 29, 2001.
		Coast AM from May 29, 2001.
		Music When in the springtime of the year, when the trees are crowned with leaves, When the usual look and they're bird and you're dressed in ribbons here When hours cold,
		The breathless moon in the moving of the night The shadows of the trees appear In the midst of the lantern night We remember the night In some time of the day Nothing turning back again We bring the garden again
		We bring the garden again
		to the shady coast Some shadows here tight ring on the sheltering arms in the springtime of the year You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 29th 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you this we're having something really weird go on with our lines here.
		I wonder if it relates in any way to uh the subject of the discussion really strange crunches crashes clicks I've never heard anything like it on the phone lines weird anyway uh Dr. Jacobs is here maybe that does have something to do with it and we're talking to abductees and about the subject of abduction and it's not a ride you necessarily want to take we'll get back to Dr. Jacobs and
		your calls in a moment Dr. Jacobs if somebody were to be stumbling into our program tonight aside from what they've heard so far they're probably scared out of their minds if they're believing this and if they think they've had an experience themselves and you have four books what would you start them out on well probably secret life actually the
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		The new one, UFOs and Abductions, is a good sort of primer in what we know about certain areas.
		In other words, there's a wonderful article in there by Michael Swords about the early, early Air Force's take on the subject.
		And it turns out that they were much more involved with thinking this was extraterrestrial than we had thought before.
		And as I said, there's an excellent article by Hopkins on hypnosis.
		And I've done a little piece about the history of the abduction controversy in the United States.
		And there's some arguments back and forth between people in there and some articles about science.
		But if they want to know about the abduction phenomenon, I would start with secret life, probably, and then go on to the threat, which sort of extends our knowledge and brings it up to date.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		all right uh...
		good we've got lots calls here our first time caller live line you're on the air with Dr. Jacobs where are you please are you talking to me?
		Yes, ma'am.
unidentified		Where are you?
		I'm in Wilmington, North Carolina.
		Okay.
		He said something about recording on video.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I want to tell him something.
		I did that for my son.
		It made him feel better.
		And so I did it every night.
		I would also sometimes look at the video during the day in a fast-forward motion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		I'm nervous.
		I'm 51 years old.
		I'm nervous here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't worry about it.
unidentified		And I noticed that he would get up and turn it off, like Dr. Jacob says.
		And then sometimes it was like the timing was off.
		And I put a big cafeteria clock over his bed.
		Not running on power, old-fashioned clock like you used to have in the cafeterias.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Great, great.
unidentified		And I went on, you know, the next day, I looked at the video, and everything seemed cool.
		I'm always, I was looking to catch some on video.
		And then another time I had some time, so I sat down to pop in the video and started looking at it fast forward.
		And you can't help but see that big clock.
		And you're watching the video and watching the video, and it comes to like 5 morning.
		And then, you know, you keep going, and it's like 10 minutes after.
		And I was like, wait a minute, it's five minutes till three in the morning.
		And I'm like, whoa.
		So I stopped it, rewound, played it in normal speed, and there was five minutes till three in the morning.
		And at 10 minutes after 3 in the morning, it was 5 minutes till 3 in the morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, were you looking at the previous night's clock?
unidentified		Yes, it was.
unidentified		So it was the night of the day that I was looking at it.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Right, but sometimes if you're seeing the same tape in the same way over and over again, and if that tape is turned off, you'll suddenly just switch to what was taped the previous night.
unidentified		Well, that's right.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		And there might be a gap of 10 minutes difference or so if you turned it on the pressure.
unidentified		It was a fresh tape.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
unidentified		I have a friend that works, we were in Charlotte then, and he worked with a big security firm and had all the expertise for this stuff.
		He does even government jobs before Bragg and all.
		And he took the video.
		I said, check this, see if somebody's tampered with it.
		I figured it had been tampered with, and he said, no.
		And I said, can you copy it?
		And he said, well, yes, because it was a fresh tape.
		I had asked him to copy tapes before.
		And if they weren't fresh, been recorded over and over, he couldn't get a good copy.
		So this one was fresh.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, we do get these sort of anomalies.
		I have a tape of a flash of light in a woman's room.
		This is a woman who lived in an apartment, which wakes her up.
		You see her getting up, looking around, what was that?
		And in other words, you could tell it wasn't a tape anomaly, something on the tape itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's what this lady is saying, that it was five of and then it was ten after.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Now, normally when we see lapses in time like that, I must say it's usually longer.
		It's usually an hour and a half, two hours, sometimes three hours.
		So that makes me just a little bit wary.
unidentified		It's just a weird one.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		It is weird, but when your son gets up and turns it off, does he remember that in the morning?
unidentified		Oh, he's like me.
		They can't seem to control him.
		And so both of us all our lives have remembered stuff.
		I worked with Bud Hopkins for about four years from 1989 till shortly before we moved to Wilmington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
unidentified		And very nice person, helped me a great deal to understand.
		He didn't have the answers, which is what I wanted.
		But he helped me to know that there were other people that it was happening to, that I wasn't crazy.
		That was the biggest deal.
		You know, when my husband was asking me to marry him on a beach in Georgia, I was scared to tell him about the little guys.
		You know, I'm standing there thinking I should and couldn't.
		He found out later.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really interesting.
		Doctor, how do most people handle this with a potential mate?
		I mean, if something has been going on all their life, it's going to impact their mate.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		You know, you bring up a really, really important point, and that is how do you tell a prospective spouse or even friends and that sort of thing?
		And everybody has to handle this differently.
		And, you know, if you tell somebody who's just asking you to be married, well, there's a problem here.
		The problem is that little people from another planet are coming in kidnapping me on a daily basis, that might be slightly off-putting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just slightly.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and so you have to be very careful and very discreet.
		And I have a woman who I worked with for a very long time who is getting married next month, and she has decided not to tell her new husband.
		Oh, my.
		And there's another woman who lives in Ohio, who I've talked with for a number of years, who also never told her husband about what's going on.
		Although he knows odd things are happening because he sees things every once in a while and all that.
		And then other people tell their husbands or their wives, and sometimes their spouses are supportive, and sometimes they're not.
		And it's a real problem.
		This is part of the hidden life of abductees.
		All these problems, the problems of relationships, when people find out about it, and supposing your husband or your wife believes it and thinks it's really happening, and what that can do is that can drive a wedge in a relationship as well, because the person becomes frightened to be around the abductee and doesn't want to sleep in the same bed with him or her.
		And there's all these other kind of problems that abductees have that most people don't know about.
		Not only that, but there's even more practical problems.
		If there's a lot of activity, there's just a problem of sleep deprivation, of getting up in the morning and not being able to function well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Secret Life really was a good title, huh?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		It worked on a lot of levels, although I didn't talk too much about all that, but abductees do have these other problems.
		And of course, There's the problem of children and families and trying to protect them.
		And this woman was really doing the right thing by setting up the camera.
		I mean, it's completely passive, and there's no harm done, and it does give you that feeling of protection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Jacobs.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		This is Joe in Coco, Florida.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Joe.
unidentified		I've got a question for Dr. Jacobs.
		I'm an abduction researcher with CE4 Research Group, and we have right now over 100 documented cases where we've been able to help these abductees, experiencers, defeat their experience and terminate the experience through their faith in the name and authority of Jesus Christ.
		We offer hope for these experiences.
		I wonder if is there any way that you can honor hope?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm so glad you said that.
		And here's why, Dr. Jacobs.
		A few days ago on the show, maybe a week, I actually had an exorcist on here.
		And exorcists are famous for saying, be gone in the name of Jesus, right?
		Something like that.
		And I said at the time, you know, I've talked to a lot of abductees, and they've tried that.
		And most of the stories I've ever heard, it didn't have one bit of effect on the entities.
		Let's stick with that name for a second.
		What do you say?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, first of all, it does sort of leave out on the cold all the Jewish abductees and Hindu and Muslim abductees.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		I guess they don't have the ability to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They can say, Amen, it says, be gone, or something, but it just doesn't seem to work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it your experience?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		It is my experience that it has never worked enough without trying.
		I've worked with several people who are ministers.
		I'm working right now with a woman who is a member of a nun's order.
		And that's all they do is pray.
		They're heavily into praying.
		Oh, yes.
		And obviously, and they are just abducted as many times as anybody else.
		Now, the problem here is this.
		Most people don't know when experiences have happened to them.
		And what happens is they might remember something.
		They'll see beings in the room, and they'll get up and they'll yell something out, which might be religious in nature or some sort of incantation that they decided they were going to say if they saw these beings.
		And sure enough, the beings leave.
		And they've stopped the abduction.
		But what they don't realize is that the abduction has already occurred, and they're waking up or remembering it just in the last few seconds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's already over.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		It's already over, right?
		And they're thinking, well, I've stopped it, you know, and you get quite a lot of that.
		But most of the time, people don't even know when it's happening, and then they say it hasn't been happening.
		And in fact, if you examine it very closely, it has been happening.
		So I wish, I mean, obviously that'd be one of the very first things that people tried many years ago was just reasoning or bargaining or praying or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, Doctor, if I did what that lady did and I suspected, for example, something was happening to my wife or child and put a clock in there, what a brilliant idea, and then ran a VCR with it, and I saw on a fresh tape the kind of jump she said she saw, or a longer one, I would have to sit down.
		I don't know what I'd do.
		I really don't know what I'd do.
		And I don't know what avenues there would be.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And the only thing you can do is try to figure out what exactly is happening and gain some sort of intellectual and emotional control over the situation and go on with your life.
		And what I try to do with people is get them to the point where they don't obsess on the subject, where I know it sounds crazy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How could you not obsess on that?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		You have to remember that it's been happening to people since they were born.
		It's a lifelong thing.
		It's been with them all through their lives.
		It's part of their lives in an odd way.
		And they have been able to lead a fairly normal life most of the time with it happening.
		And what ultimately drives them to find out is some triggering event, you know, that really they begin to think about all the time and they're driven to find out what's been going on.
		And once they learn about it, and they learn more and more and more, and they sort of figure out, they realize, listen, I only have one life to live.
		This is it, you know.
		And they can abduct me for two hours every week or whenever they want, but all the rest of that time is mine and I'm going to live it to the fullest, and I'm just not going to grant them the power over me that they don't care about in the first place.
		So I'm going to go ahead and leave my life.
		And once I get people to that point, I figure that I've won as good a victory as we're going to get.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As good as we're going to get.
		I don't know if that's good enough for a lot of people listening to this whole thing.
		I mean, what really is going on?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the societal, the whole general thing about it.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		But for individuals, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the only thing you can do.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		My responsibility is to help them as much as possible.
		That's first and foremost.
		And if I get to the point where they get sick of it and they don't ever want to see me again, I figure that's great.
		That's exactly what I want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Jacobs.
unidentified		Hello.
		Good morning, gentlemen.
		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in Sacramento.
		Okay.
		It's interesting that you brought me on at this point because my experiences since I was young, and I'm 40 now, have not been traumatic whatsoever.
		They haven't been that intense at all.
		And I was just wondering how many of your abductees have experiences like mine where I have learned to communicate with them.
		It's a visual communication, not a language of any sort, but they sort of basically, as I discussed before, they kind of like download my brain into their computer or whatever it is, and then they're able to communicate to me certain things visually, not like a picture screen, but almost like a dream.
		And they can understand what I'm saying because I've learned to speak to them through a visual type concept, through pictures and things, and show him certain things.
		And they've taught me a lot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		So in other words, here's a man that basically is saying it's not a bad experience.
		That is what you're saying, right, Colin?
unidentified		Exactly.
		Yeah, their whole program is to be able to basically migrate here, immigrate.
		That's their whole program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there I think you agree with Dr. Jacobs.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And I think that you have to remember that for most people, if it's happened over and over and over and over and over again since the time that they were born, which is what all the evidence seems to suggest, that by the time a person is 40 or 49, they might have had literally hundreds of abductions.
		I mean, if it's only five a year, which is very, very low count, at age 40, you're dealing with 200.
		I mean, the numbers add up very, very quickly.
		And so the question is, how traumatic can it be if you've had these things done to you over and over and over again over all the course of your life?
		And the answer is that oftentimes the trauma, oddly enough, comes in remembering it for the first time when they suddenly, when they bring it into memory, and you get this tremendous fear from people.
		But I found that after people get used to remembering it, there's still unease and there's still fear and all that, but they become more curious about it and it tends to leave them.
		And it's not as traumatic as people might say it is.
		So I don't look upon it as some abduction researchers do as just one trauma after another.
		I don't think that's necessarily true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then relax and enjoy it is kind of flipping.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But in the end, right now, that's almost all you've got to offer.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Now, there are other things that happen to women, especially, and that is sperm collection procedures where there's sort of sexual contact between humans, which is sexual, and it's not sexual since sperm is collected and all that.
		And that can be fairly embarrassing and even traumatic for some people.
		And for children, it can be quite traumatic.
		I won't go into all the things that can happen, but there's some pretty awful things that can happen too as well.
		But during the course of one's life, there is a certain familiarity with all this.
		And so it mitigates the trauma to a large extent.
		Now, having said that, a lot of people feel that it's spiritually uplifting and all that.
		And I've had a lot of people who were intent on recreating that feeling when they went back and remembered their experiences.
		And I have not found that yet.
		In all these years that I've been doing this, I have not found anything spiritually uplifting or transcendent or anything like that involved in this phenomenon, even by people who desperately want it to be that way.
		That's not what they tell me when they begin to remember what happened to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I sure appreciate you for somebody who tells it just like it is.
		And again, it's been a wonderful program.
		I know we're coming up on, what, 4 o'clock or something, Mac where you are?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		It's 4 o'clock in the a.m.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to thank you for being here.
		And I guess we just catch up with you as all of this progresses.
		Where is your research going now?
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've actually had a little bit of a leave of absence.
		I've been pretty tired, and so I've only done a few sessions recently.
		I've been fairly burned out, I must say.
		But I'm beginning to get my energy up again and think about my next book project.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, I can see how this would burn you out, too.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it does.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		It does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, thank you.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		Thanks, Art.
david m jacobs ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, my friend.
unidentified		Bye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's Professor David M. Jacobs.
		And you can see, can't you, how this kind of work would indeed burn you out?
		We've got a link to his website and books, and they're on Amazon.com.
		And if you want to know more about the subject, artbell.com is the place to go right now.
		I am Art Bell.
		Not.com.
		E-Artbell.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 29, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from May
		29, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from May
		The End Riders of the storm.
		29, 2001.
		Riders of the storm.
		Into this house we're born.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Into this world we're thrown.
unidentified		Like a dog without a bone.
unidentified		And factor out of road.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Riders on the storm.
unidentified		There's a killer on the road.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		His brain is squirming like a toad.
unidentified		J.K. A. Long Ready.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premiere Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 29th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, maybe we ought to keep doing abductions tonight.
		We're going into open lines now.
		And I guess we'll sort of leave it that way.
		We will leave it In open lines, but you know, I think if you're an abductee and you want to tell us what happened, or is happening, I guess is more like it, then my inclination is to go with that and to kind of stay with that.
		So if you're an abductee, try real hard to get through.
		And let's see if we can't get you on the air.
		Talk about it a little bit.
		Can you imagine what if everything he said is true?
		What if the entire planet is being assaulted?
		what if the idea is that eventually we all are going to join a high and that's As a species, we're going to become the hive.
		pretty freaky Into this night we're thrown.
		Here we go again.
		West of the Rockies.
		You're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		This is Alicia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alicia, you're going to have to get close to the phone and yell at us because I can barely hear you, hon. Okay, this is Alicia from Wilderville, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Much better.
unidentified		Okay.
		And my husband and I were abducted three months ago.
		It was the first time I had ever remembered anything like that happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What exactly can you remember?
unidentified		Well, I don't remember actually leaving or coming back.
unidentified		I remember waking up and seeing entities in my house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then how do you know you had been anywhere?
unidentified		Well, it was in the middle of February, and I woke up with a sunburn, my husband and I both.
unidentified		They were a thousand miles on our odometer, and we hadn't been anywhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh?
		On your odometer?
		So you had been on a trip or what?
unidentified		I don't remember.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, no, I'm saying at the moment of your abduction, do you think you were in a vehicle?
unidentified		I don't believe so.
		We came home and we were fine.
		we both took a shower there were no uh...
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy smokes.
		What do you think happened to you?
		Do you have any idea?
unidentified		I don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does your husband?
unidentified		No.
		We spoke to a friend about it, a very close friend, and he said that we were probably abducted because of the radiation that the...
		Had burned us, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In February, where are you?
unidentified		Wilderville, Oregon, the Sissi National Forest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So nothing else would account for this burn you got, huh?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you been to a doctor?
unidentified		Yes, I have.
		He said it just looked like overexposure to weather.
		And I don't know how I would have gotten burned like that in the middle of February.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		i don't either do you spend a lot of time days of the Are you outside people?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you outside?
unidentified		No, we weren't outside.
		It was cold.
		And we are not outside people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a problem.
		I don't know what to tell you.
		goodness uh...
		i i you know i don't know I don't know what to tell you.
		You should be talking to an abduction researcher of some sort.
		Have you done that yet?
unidentified		No, I haven't.
		I've been a little reserved about it because I can't remember what happened.
		So I don't want to go there and say I've been abducted.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you're not sure?
unidentified		and I'm not sure.
		I'm pretty sure what happened, but...
		He's pretty much just kind of, you know, it happened.
		Life goes on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's kind of what the professor was saying, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		However, if what the professor was saying is correct, it's a horrible thing that's about to happen to us.
unidentified		Yeah, it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From these barely remembered little, not-so-little events like the one you just talked about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old are you?
unidentified		Twenty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Twenty.
		Well, I guess, you know, in the end, I don't know what other attitude you get about it other than the one your husband has.
		It happens.
		You can't stop it.
unidentified		So.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anything else you want to say about it?
unidentified		Well, we do see lights circling around your home?
		Oh, yeah.
		But I figure we're in the forest.
		There's magnetic energies around.
		There's volcano rocks that are here that there's no volcano around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, listen.
unidentified		It could be a natural anomaly that we don't.
unidentified		That no one talks about or everyone's so used to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Either that or you're part of all this.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I've thought about that too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I absolutely appreciate your call.
		Stay in touch.
		If anything else happens, let me know right away.
unidentified		Okay, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you and take care.
		I guess I'm beginning to see what the professor was talking about.
		It's occurring.
		What are we going to do about it?
		What can we do about it?
		If it's from a civilization that far ahead of us technologically and socially and intellectually, then it is as magic to us as Magic or religion or whatever name you want to lay on it.
		Kind of a helpless, annoying feeling, isn't it?
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Art, how are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm all right, sir.
unidentified		Good.
unidentified		Joe down in the Crystal River.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And my abduction experiences started when I was four years old.
		I was missing for three days.
		And I didn't really have vivid recall of it until I was about 24 when I was completing my undergraduate studies in clinical psychology, where part of my training, sorry about that, part of my training was to undergo psychological assessment and evaluation by my peers and my mentors, at which time the abduction experiences came to surface.
		Now, through the course of the years, and I'm 48 years old now, and I'm educated and have advanced degrees, I've pretty much learned to roll with this thing, as Dr. Jacobs has said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what everybody's saying.
unidentified		I'd like to pick his brain, but my experiences have been with multiple species, not just one species.
		I've encountered four different species.
		Three of them hostile, one friendly.
		The one that was friendly, they called themselves Star People.
		And that was not an abduction.
		It was a visitation as opposed to an abduction.
		And the star people are concerned with what they call those of the blood, AB negative.
		I happen to be AB negative blood group, and so are my daughters.
		In fact, we are experiencing at the present time, up at our summer residence in Pennsylvania, experiences right now with my daughter.
		I mean, right within the last day, within the last two days.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of experiences?
unidentified		Physical evidence.
		Cytoplasm, protoplasm, deposited on her body, marks, those types of things.
		I'm powerless to do anything about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Apparently we all are.
unidentified		What has been suggested to me by these friendlies, I call them friendlies, the star people, is they tell me to concentrate on the color blue.
		There's a universal color blue that stops the bad ones.
		The ones I've encountered are the grays, the blues, and reptilians.
		The reptilians are the worst.
		I was terrorized.
		But I've learned to deal with this and to turn some of this stuff into positive things in terms of what they've told me and showed me regarding technologies that I have turned into issued patents.
		And some of the stuff is pretty important things that our military uses.
		So, I mean, it's been quite an experience in my life.
		And I'm always worried about appearing to be normal.
		I once did a study of normalcy and found that in the United States, the normal male spends 20 minutes, approximately, every Saturday morning cleaning doggie do out of his yard.
		So guess what I did?
		I got a dog.
		And guess what I do every Saturday morning?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You clean up dogs.
unidentified		I go for the paper and I take the dog out so the neighbors think I'm normal.
		And they all think I'm normal.
		And I'll tell you, I've made a big mistake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You sure aren't fooling them, huh?
unidentified		Well, Art, you just, I don't know what else to do.
unidentified		You know, I'm walking this fine line between sanity and what normalcy, whatever the hell that is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, yes.
unidentified		But I made the mistake a few years ago of letting some of my people at NASA know about some of these things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably a mistake.
unidentified		There went my displays at the Kennedy Space Center.
unidentified		What else can I tell you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That'll do, sir.
		Thank you very much.
		Oh, my.
		So concerned about being normal that he went out and got a dog so it could poop in the yard so he could clean it up every Saturday morning.
		Oh boy.
		East of the Rockies, you're on air.
		Hello.
		Hi.
unidentified		Oh, I'm here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, you're there.
unidentified		Good.
		I don't have my radio on for a change.
		I'm in my headset.
		I was prepared this time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, good for you.
unidentified		That issue of normalcy hits a nerve because since my first experience that I realized was an actual experience, part of that made me realize that I never did feel normal around people for the most part.
unidentified		and since the experience I've made more of an effort to be more normal around people right in the back of your I'm just speaking for myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm asking, since what experience?
unidentified		Oh, since I was, I believe, abducted on the road in 1991, 92.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the road?
unidentified		Yes, I was driving along the Palisades Parkway up here in New York.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		During a very heavy snowstorm.
		It wasn't a lot of wind.
		It was just constantly falling, nice deep snow.
		And I was forced to get on the road to drive home from my girlfriend's house.
		It was about a 20-minute ride with no traffic, no snow.
		And it took me an hour and 45 minutes to get home, whereas it should have taken maybe 40 minutes to get home in the snow.
		The snow was about a foot deep.
		And I was actually driving along slowly in this virgin snow, kind of enjoying the fact that I was the only one on the road.
		On the other side of the patch of woods that divides these two north-south lanes comes this bright light that's pacing me at the same exact speed that I'm going at.
		But it's Higher than a car.
		It's higher than any car.
		And it's not making a sound as far as I could hear.
		I rolled down my window to listen to see what kind of a truck or snowmobile or device this was.
		It didn't make a sound, but there was this light.
		I'd slowed down, it would slow down.
		So it was sort of pacing me.
		At one point, all of a sudden, it sort of lifted up in a way, in a blink, where I couldn't really turn my neck around to see where it went, but in that lifting up, it was gone.
		Wow.
		I thought, gee, that was odd.
		If that was a truck, I don't know where he could have gotten off the road because there are no exits on that side of the road where he was to get off.
		And they're all aimed at the wrong direction.
		You know what I'm saying?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		He would have gone plummeting down some sort of an abyss.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I understand.
		So this thing, this plot disappeared.
		Well, how do you, I mean, that's a sighting.
		How do you now get to abduction?
unidentified		I get to abduction in that that night, I had a dream after taking far too long to get home.
		I finally get home.
		It's about 4.30 in the morning.
		And I'm just, you know, scratching my head over how the heck this took so long.
		It just made no sense.
		Sure.
		I've always been, you know, into UFOs, interested in UFOs, I should say, and paranormal phenomena and that sort of thing.
		But when something weird like this happens to me, that's the last thing I thought of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
unidentified		I had dreams that night that my car was stopped in the middle of the snow and I was surrounded by what appeared to be deer with arms and legs and hands.
		Now if you look at a deer head on, what do you see?
		Large eyes, small face.
		Of course you have the big ears because deers have the ears.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		But all I could make out were the small statuesque outlines of these small deer that were surrounding my car, which was in place.
		A deer coming over to the side of the car, opening my door for me.
		And I felt very good.
		I felt like this was the right thing to do.
		And they helped me out of the car.
		One of them took my hand, and I looked down to see a hand coming from a deer.
		Like it was a small hand, like a child's hand.
		I didn't think anything of it at the time, and it led me away from my car on the road, back toward this very bright light where now I was hearing a little bit of a hum and there was a little bit of steam coming from around the snow.
		And I don't remember anything after that from that dream.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate your bringing it forward.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		Yes, hello.
unidentified		I'm here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
unidentified		Yes, Art Bill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Yes.
		A couple of things.
		One is you were talking to Dr. Jacobs of Zachariah Fitchin's theories or works of the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mentioned Zachariah Sitchin to him for obvious reasons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was talking about the hive, right?
unidentified		Yeah.
		that really is what dr jacobs was talking about the high no other kitchen i've got that the and not you look more that killing because Yeah, Enki was like the called a serpent and a snake.
		And the Anunnaki were very emotional beings.
		They weren't non-emotional like these beings that he's talking about.
		So I think he is talking about the insect types.
		And so I thought I would put that in.
		And also, this is kind of a comforting thing.
		They're always talking about pole shifts.
		And everybody's really concerned about the cataclysm coming up if there is a pole shift.
		Maybe there won't be one, because if there was going to be a pole shift, these beings are so intelligent they would surely know that.
		If they want to occupy the Earth, maybe we could just forget about the pole shift.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, exactly.
		In other words, if the Earth is going to be occupied, if in fact we're in the middle of an invasion right now, which is something to contemplate, something to think about.
		If we're in the middle of an invasion right now, then what is this whole pole shift stuff?
		All we know is, a lot of us know that something is coming.
unidentified		Something is pending.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That we can feel something pending.
		Now, it may not be a pole shift at all.
		It may not be a cataclysmic event with the environment much as they seem quite likely right now.
		Maybe it's what Dr. Jacobs has been talking about.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		All right, yeah, Art Bell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's me.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm Brian from Cincinnati.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Brian.
unidentified		And I didn't intend to be up this late.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It happens.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I was listening to David Jacobs, and I've talked with him in the past.
		I was at that conference at MIT in 1992.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		With the, there were about 150 mental health professionals there that were trying to investigate the alien abduction phenomenon.
		Right.
		And I presented a paper about telepathic spread.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You presented a paper?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you a credentialed person?
unidentified		Well, I have an MD.
		I don't practice medicine.
		I do some research.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'll tell you what.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		Can you hold on?
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, stay right there.
		Get back to you shortly, Doctor.
		It's the bottom of the hour, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
		I'm Art Bell.
		How you doing this morning?
		Not a bad morning for an invasion, huh?
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 29, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from May
		Coast to Coast AM from May 29, 2001.
		29, 2001.
		I can hear it coming in the air of the night.
		Oh Lord, and I've been waiting for this moment for all my life.
		Oh Lord, can you hear it coming in the ear of night?
		Oh Lord, Oh Lord When they told me you were drowning out.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired May 29th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's funny.
		I get messages and email messages and stuff from people who want to be abducted.
		Can you imagine that?
		They really want the experience.
		And from what I've heard, if what Dr. Jacob says is true, there are some things you should be very careful about wishing for.
unidentified		And from what I've heard, I've heard a lot about wishing for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, back to our caller, and you're back on the air, sir.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		It sounds like you're familiar with the Abduction Study Conference at MIT.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I've heard of it, yes.
unidentified		John Mack and Dave Pritchard were co-chairs for that meeting.
		Right.
		Yeah.
		The title of my paper there was Possible Telepathic Spread of UFO Abduction Stories.
		I just made the point that if there was telepathic rapport between aliens and people, that there might be telepathic rapport between people and people and also the abductees and the hypnotherapists.
		yeah i think that the question might be how many of them are hybrids mean where you know you don't even have to be a Telepathy happens so frequently between people, and it's actually enhanced.
		Telepathic rapport is enhanced by hypnosis.
		So I brought up the problem of people doing hypnosis and having in mind the abduction format and then having their subjects extract the story from their own mind and parrot it back to them.
		It gets a little complicated.
		You don't know if you're hearing what's already in your head.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		So you got the picture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think I've got the picture.
		Thank you very much.
		Yo, that's right.
		How would you know?
		How do you even know if your own thoughts are original?
		Have you ever wondered about that?
		How do you know that your own thoughts are original?
		You really don't.
		If somebody was able to telepathically, in essence, inject a thought into your mind or into the collective consciousness so that it would pop out as sort of an original thought, we'd never know it.
		Wildcard line, you're on air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, um, this is Tom.
unidentified		I'm calling from Moline, Illinois, and I listened to AM 1420.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, um, I've been abducted, and uh, I remember it pretty well.
		Um, one thing I do want to say is that you need a um uh Beijing Free Play Plus to fight aliens.
		I know that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How does that help?
unidentified		You know, when they drop you off, um, you got to make sure you got batteries, and those things don't run out of power, so they're real good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's the abduction radio.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, it's abduction radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
unidentified		That's how it works.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You still have power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even if your batteries were drained, you could still dredge up.
unidentified		You could just crank that up.
unidentified		Crank it up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		Good point.
unidentified		And then, you know, if they take you out to the moon or something or the sun or whatever, just use that solar panel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you're actually out the sun, sir.
unidentified		Oh, no, I've never been there.
		I've never been up to the moon either.
		I remember the gray room with the lights.
		The lights are really weird, and lighting is really weird up there.
		I remember waking up on the table once.
		No, I remember this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is the same thing.
		Is the light enough to drive the Bajan?
		That's the big question.
unidentified		Oh, no, no.
		You can't drive your Bajan on the ship.
		No, you can't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very subdued lighting, though.
unidentified		Right.
		It's really dim.
		It's an eerie kind of dim light.
		And their eyes are so acute that they're so black, so they collect the light.
		See what I'm saying?
		yes i think that the looking for those eyes and my mild with them is You're talking about the classic black eyes of the gray?
		Epinephrine or epinephrine, how the human body works.
		They've taken them all apart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're talking about the classic eyes of the gray, sir?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dark black.
unidentified		And then the watchers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Little tiny light suckers.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, the light suckers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, gotcha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Hi, this is Mark in Indianapolis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey there.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
unidentified		Well, I'm going to be 50 this year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Congratulations.
unidentified		Well, thank you, I think.
		I have also, like the previous caller, I've had four different types of species involved with me in abduction, experience, whatever.
		You have?
		Yeah.
		And what I have found over the years, I became aware of this about 30 years ago.
		They let me, I don't know why, they wanted me to be conscious through a lot of this.
		I have found that what they're here to do, yes, we are becoming part of a hive and there's no military solution.
		Forget that.
		We are being brought into something much larger.
		But here's the thing.
		I have been able to establish a rapport with all four different types.
		There's a reptilian, insectoid, gray, and human species that are involved in this.
		What they're here to learn is the process of love.
		If you can show them love, it takes them off their track.
		It stops the program.
		Now, the thing about it is, you start with humor.
		All the species understand humor.
		Start with humor, move from humor to friendship, from friendship to love, and you'll be brought into something much larger than you can imagine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you know they're not just going along with you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that they're reacting in a way that makes you feel comfortable?
unidentified		Well, because my life has changed so much.
		Yes, there is an inclusion that happens into a group mind, but it's not an ejectoid group mind.
		We're not being assimilated like with the Borg.
		We're being opened to more of a universal mind that they're already a part of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you know that that's not a, what's the right word?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A trick.
unidentified		Yeah, oh, I know.
unidentified		Because it works from human to human.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor Jacobs seems convinced from an awful lot of research, sir, over 30 years now, 35 years, that you're wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That you may be right about the abduction aspect of the experience, but your comfort with it is just something that either they've manufactured for you or you've manufactured for yourself to be comfortable with the experience.
unidentified		Oh, I consider that, too.
		I have.
		But the fact is, he's right about one thing.
		We can't do anything about it.
		We really can't.
		But we can learn to flow much better with it, and as we flow better with it, we grow as we flow.
		And that's all we can do.
		But there is an enjoyable aspect to it, and there is a blossoming aspect to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's incredible.
		You know, to the average person listening tonight, they're going, these people are out of their minds.
		This thing isn't going on.
		This is some sort of mass hysteria or something.
		Since you're addressing a lot of those people, what would you say to them?
unidentified		Well, what I would say to them is that it doesn't matter if we are hallucinating this or if this is really happening.
unidentified		There is a very big sociological and psychological change happening to our species.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
unidentified		It's happening one by one, and it's happening collectively.
unidentified		Now, if they want to believe that we are nuts, by all means, examine us, get to know us, talk to us, because we're trying to talk to the source that's causing this, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, aside from what you've been telling me, you sound completely lucid.
unidentified		Well, I try to be, because I'll tell you, it's not easy.
		It really is not easy.
		Because these things, it becomes part of your life, and you accept it.
		And I'll tell you the truth, if it were to go away tomorrow, I would feel lost.
		I would feel totally disoriented, and I would need something greater to hold on to.
		Remove this, and it's like taking God out of your life.
		I'm not saying this is God, but it's your next step that you're reaching for.
		It's like an escalator you're going up.
		it's taking you something higher if all of a sudden there were to change But I fear you're not.
		Well, yeah, we're all, like I said, the best thing to do is go with the flow, enjoy it, and try to get to know them and give them our highest qualities.
		If we're going to be abducted.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I've got it.
		I appreciate the call.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fascinating.
		Most of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, I'm Lynn from a small town in Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From a small town in Alaska?
unidentified		Let's just put it that way.
		It's a small town, so you know who I was.
		I'll just start at the beginning.
		I started remembering this like about four years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remembering?
unidentified		Remembering a potential abduction, but all the, it was a series of events that happened to me when I was 18.
		I lived in Northern California.
		I was going to school actually in Chico.
		And I had my first sighting when I was 18.
		This was in 76.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And I'm a little nervous.
		And it was, you know, your typical bright light that did the maneuvers that were impossible and then just sped off.
		And then a few months later, I was driving between Chico and the Bay Area, you know, 2 or 3 in the morning, had the missing time saying, oh, two hours, you know, of missing time.
		And right before that happened, it looked like a floating city.
		That's all I can describe.
		It had little windows, and it looked like little stairways above this field.
		We did a mile check.
		And, you know, it was late at night, so we thought, well, maybe it's a grain field.
		But it looked awfully strange.
		It had a strange blue glow to it.
		And then we went off on our trip.
		Now, it was odd because it was a three-hour trip should have, you know, it took us six hours.
		So that was a little strange, but we didn't question it because we just, you know, don't.
		And came back through, and sure enough, there was nothing there at that same, nothing there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder what most people do with missing time.
		Do they do that?
		In other words, you go.
		Okay, where did that three hours go?
		And then you think about it for a while, but what can you do?
		So you just eventually sort of dismiss it.
unidentified		At the time, we didn't know how to click our medulla, right?
		So anyway, the other thing, too, was about four months after that, I had a dance class, and I was quite a bit active.
		And it felt like there was something in my abdomen moving that was strangely.
		And so I had it checked on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I thought I was perhaps pregnant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And my periods were all screwed up.
		And lo and behold, I had a cyst attached to my fallopian tube.
		It weighed two pounds, and it was like a water balloon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My God.
unidentified		And the doctor that took it out said he'd never seen anything like it.
		So there's these little series of events.
		I never strung them together until four years ago.
		I started taking.
		I was recovering from an illness, and so I had a lot of time on my hands, and I did a lot of oh counseling, meditation groups, you know, so on and so forth.
		And things started falling together, and I started remembering things through rebirthing sessions and through this meditation.
		And it was a study of sacred geometry and the Merkaba, which is an energy field around the body.
		And this is how I understand this whole thing with the greys, because they were greys.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were greys.
unidentified		They were greys.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The typical...
unidentified		Yeah, the typical big-eyed things that then they give me the willies, you know, and they started becoming the chic-like little toys and stuff.
		They really gave me the willies.
		Anyway, the interesting thing about this whole thing that I would like to...
		Like the previous caller that mentioned love.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Well, what I understand with the greys is that they're a part of the Luciferian rebellion and that they have become so techno, they have forgotten how to love.
unidentified		And so what I think, it's all coming up with the ascension or the polar shift or whatever you want to call it that's coming up, you know, soon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pretty soon, yes.
unidentified		Within the next 10 years or whatever.
		whatever and because if you look at all the clues it's like putting all the dots together and it's starting to become a picture the other thing too that is this Mrs. Hoagland pardon me I was asking if this was Mrs. Hoagland no this is actually when you start talking about dots you know oh dots well all right well listen I think the thing is though is that the grays you know I think they're hybriding because
		They need that capacity to love to make the shift because if you're not in the vibration of love and you're with that, if you don't know that, you won't make the shift.
		It's a really fast vibration.
		It's got a really fast wave as opposed to fear, which has a really slow one.
		So the really fast wave activates all the codons, all the amino acids, everything to make us the highest potential human being we can be so we can join our star brothers and sisters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, there we have it again, our star brothers and sisters.
		Now, as you listen to people who have been abducted, and we've had a whole string of them here in this hour, what's a commonality?
		The commonality seems to be that everybody feels it's a good thing.
		It's a good thing.
		Our brothers, our space brothers are going to help us.
		They're here to help us rise to the next human level and all the rest of it.
		That's what the individual experience seems to be.
		Or that's how it's been rationalized by the individual.
		But the serious college professor who's been researching this now for 35 years has a very different answer.
		And he has an answer for why you're all feeling the way you are.
		That it's a good thing that these are our space brothers and sisters.
		Well, maybe it's just not that way.
		I understand that they might want us to think that.
		I understand that you might want to rationalize that.
		Because to believe the other is pretty much a horror, right?
		Even if we can't do anything about it, it's a horror.
		First time caller online, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hey, Art, how you doing?
		Okay.
		This is Todd in Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Todd.
unidentified		I think I've summarized why the aliens are here.
unidentified		I figured it all out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
unidentified		Basically, the aliens are, spiritually speaking, they're like fallen angels or Lucifer's angels.
		And what they want to do is implement a program of complete and total control over humanity.
		The hybrids would be the vehicles.
		It would be like the mark of the bees is you get a body.
		And the body is something that they made.
		They download your brain and your life experience into it.
		And from that point on, you have no soul.
		You're under like, you'd be like a TV set receiving the consciousness that they program.
		That you'd have.
		And they would control your existence.
		And, of course, the government isn't cagoot with them because the government, I mean, no reason.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they're under control anyway, aren't they?
unidentified		Well, I was going to say, that's what they live for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
unidentified		The more controlled, the happier they are.
		And so along comes the devil and his people saying, hey, we can get you no more riots, no more labor unrest, no more complete control of your agriculture and everything.
		And all you've got to do, you know, is let us complete the genetic experimentation that we're doing.
		I hear you.
		And for all the people who are saying that this is a positive thing, you know, if I went into your house and took you and did experiments on you against your will, I would be one of the most wanted people in America, especially doing it to kids.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, but you know what, that's how people come to terms with it.
		If you have something like this happening to you that you have absolutely no control over, no hope of stopping, maybe a slim hope of slowing it down with extraordinary measures, but otherwise really in the long run, you have no way to stop it, no way to control it, no way to make it better.
		Then you're going to rationalize it in some way because you want to go on living.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		But, and also they say it's positive, but that could be another suggestion put in during their hypnosis when they're positive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Absolutely correct.
		And so, you know, people rationalize it and that's how they go on living.
		You know, we're beings who want to go on living.
unidentified		Because we have to be will and that's what they don't want us to have.
		They don't, the aliens or the devil, God gave us, if you will, and they are agents who are against, if you will.
		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you listen to Professor Jacobs, once all this, oh, there you are.
		So once all of this is complete, what is the one thing that will be missing?
		Free will.
unidentified		Free will.
		And, but, I mean, you probably know this too, but they're not going to win.
		take a chunk of people with them but whoever goes that way all in Revelation, they have all these plagues put against them.
		Well, and then the truly free people, the people of God, will take over the planet, and the meek will inherit the earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the story will have a little red bow put on it, right?
		Well, it is.
		Everybody lives happily ever after.
unidentified		Not everyone.
		Only not everyone's going to make it.
		not everyone wants to be well and then they're gonna have to go bye bye uh...
		bye bye yeah cause god wants They're going to leave the planet.
		God making them go away.
		Because God wants Earth to be free again.
		To have love and abundance and health for all the good people.
		Because we can't have heaven and hell mixed anymore.
		The time's up.
		No more time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
unidentified		I appreciate your call and your comment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We are out of time.
		Now, tomorrow night, we're going to do something entirely different.
		And as you know, there's a gigantic power crisis in California and now spreading across the nation.
		Tomorrow night, Richard Perez, who's been off the grid for a long time, is going to tell you how you can do it.

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