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March 13, 2001 - Art Bell

02:47:06

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Ancient Cosmology - Dr. Richard L. Thompson

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	♪♪ Mississippi in the middle of the dry spell
	Baby Roger on the victrola of the high Mama's dancing with baby on her shoulder
	The sun is setting like molasses in the sky The lights are out and we're having everything
	Always wanting more, feeling and longing for Like father and I, need it for a smile
	Wanna take a ride?
	Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	to the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	And to reach out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
	Art Bell, who's lucky he's not glowing in the dark.
	I don't think I am yet, anyway.
	The whole story of the outage, the bizarre circumstances surrounding the outage last night, if that's what you want to call it, I call it An electromagnetic attack.
	And I don't raise the level of verbiage frequently that high.
	Electromagnetic attack on this valley last night.
	That's what happened.
	We've got the proof on my website right now.
	Go sift through it for yourself.
	Terrestrial microwaves, satellite microwave frequencies separated by many gigahertz, all deader than a doornail as something descended on this valley.
	That story on the website.
	The story of the ice circles is on the website right now, along with the photographs, so you can actually see them for yourselves.
	One remote viewer in Hawaii last hour thought it was human.
	Human stuff.
	Might be.
	Don't know.
	That's pretty thin ice, though.
	More ways than one.
	Coming up in a moment, Mysteries of the Sacred Universe is the book... That sounds pretty good, huh?
	Mysteries of the Sacred Universe.
	Dr. Thompson is going to be my guest.
	I think Dr. Richard L. Thompson, in fact, is a mathematician who received his PhD in Probability Theory and Statistical Mechanics from Cornell University in 1974.
	He has written over 25 academic papers, scripts for several video productions and several books on science and philosophy, including Vedic Cosmography and Astronomy, Alien Identities, Mechanistic and Non-Mechanistic Science with Michael Cremo, Forbidden Archaeology, he was co-author, and The Hidden History of the Human Race.
	He also has a number of published works in the field of mathematical biology.
	But in a moment, for the most part, we're going to talk about mysteries of the sacred universe, coming up next.
	All right, Dr. Thompson, welcome to the program.
	Well, thank you.
	It's great to have you.
	And it's hard to even know where to begin.
	A lot of your work is very technical.
	You're a mathematician.
	And a lot of the research is very technical.
	I guess I would begin by asking you your title, Mysteries of the Sacred Universe.
	What exactly are the mysteries?
	What happened is that I was involved in studying an ancient text which describes the universe.
	And at the first glance this looks like a mythological description.
	It talks about the universe in terms of geography.
	It appears to describe what you could call the flat earth.
	But what I found on looking more closely at this This ancient document is that it's actually giving a very sophisticated description of the solar system and of a number of other features which are only known in modern astronomy.
	So this is somewhat mysterious.
	I also found that the basic geographical description of cosmology, which is given in the text, is found all over the world.
	And this is also a bit mysterious in that it indicates that certain ideas were apparently spread all over the world long before Columbus and modern exploration.
	How much earlier?
	Well, the traditional date for the text, of course, is something a bit controversial.
	The text traditionally is dated to be about 3000 B.C., and I can tell you a story about that date also.
	3000 B.C.? ?
	In terms of modern accepted scholarship, the text dates back from anything to a thousand years ago to two thousand years ago.
	All of this is leading up to evidence, you feel, for a scientifically advanced civilization in the distant past.
	How distant?
	Well, what basically I ran into in studying this text is what you could call a serendipitous discovery.
	I was looking at the description of this flat Earth, which is in the text, and I found evidence that it contains a map of the solar system.
	In other words, we all know that long ago people thought the Earth was in fact flat.
	And you thought that's what you were looking at, was a description of a flat Earth?
	Right, that's what it certainly seems to be.
	I mean, literally it says that.
	We're dealing with the Earth as a disk, and it's flat, which is what people supposedly believed long ago, before they had the scientific knowledge that the Earth is a globe.
	Only you have determined it was not that at all, but rather a description of the universe?
	Yes, of the solar system.
	You see, one interesting thing about the solar system, the planets orbit all in just about the same plane.
	I'll use the word ecliptic a lot, probably.
	If you take the Earth as a fixed center point for reference purposes, the Sun seems to go around the Earth in a big orbit.
	Right.
	And the plane of that orbit is called the ecliptic.
	And all of the planets orbit in nearly the same plane.
	They orbit in planes that are tilted by maybe, let's say, five degrees at most from the ecliptic plane.
	So if you look at all the planetary orbits, basically that is flat.
	And it turns out that the flat Earth actually was that plane of the solar system.
	So to get back to your original question, what does this have to do with an ancient A more scientifically advanced civilization.
	Well, the dimensions of the orbits, as indicated from the text, and I'll tell you how you arrive at this, but the basic conclusion is that these dimensions are quite accurate from the point of view of modern astronomy.
	And how could they possibly, possibly have known?
	Right.
	How could they have known that?
	Either it's all a coincidence, just the numbers happen to come out that way.
	What are the odds?
	You're a mathematician.
	Well, the odds are very small.
	We can talk more about the whole topic of coincidence in these kinds of studies, too.
	But just briefly, the odds, I calculated about 1 in 20,000.
	About 1 in 20,000 that they would match?
	That things would match as closely as they did.
	All right.
	You were the co-author of Forbidden Archaeology.
	Forbidden Archaeology seemed to suggest that early man was using uh... more scientific tools uh... or tools earlier than he should have been that uh... that there was knowledge back then that should not have been uh... and there are a lot of artifacts have been recovered from the earth that would certainly suggest there were things going on back there that uh... that should not have been in in your time of early man is that roughly correct well yes forbidden archaeology gives evidence that uh... at least tool making human beings
	Or hominids, as they call them, were in existence long before the accepted time frame.
	How much longer, roughly?
	Well, that gives evidence going back for millions of years.
	Millions of years?
	Yeah.
	All right.
	In your new book, you're looking at the possibility of a scientifically advanced civilization that would go back how far?
	Well, we're talking about thousands of years.
	We don't have an exact figure for the date.
	But the basic argument goes like this.
	Let us suppose for the sake of argument that people really did have a more accurate knowledge of the solar system at some time in the past.
	Well, you can ask when.
	If you go back, say, to the Middle Ages, it's known that astronomical knowledge at that time was pretty crude.
	And in fact, they didn't have a very good knowledge of the solar system.
	So it couldn't have been then.
	Then you have to go back further.
	You can take it back to the time, well, the best astronomer of antiquity that is known is Ptolemy, who lived around 200 A.D.
	So in those days, they couldn't have had the more advanced knowledge, because his knowledge wasn't so advanced.
	And then supposedly things get more primitive as you go back to the early Greeks and so on.
	Right.
	We can trace things back, let's say, to the The Babylonian astronomy, you go back to around 700 B.C.
	or so with that, and that was pretty crude.
	So, you have to go back to an earlier time in order to find a period in which the more advanced knowledge could have been known.
	How much earlier?
	I mean, here we're already talking about long before Christ.
	Yeah.
	Well, the indications that I found would put it back around 3,000 B.C., or let's say 2,500 B.C.
	2,500 years before Christ came to Earth.
	Right.
	Doctor, but to go along with that, to go along with this advanced scientific knowledge, there would have to be, or you would imagine there would be, an advanced civilization of some sort that would benefit from all of this advanced knowledge that was there then.
	Wouldn't that make sense?
	Well, yes.
	It would seem that knowledge can't exist in a vacuum.
	People had to have institutions both for doing the research, making measurements, and supporting the scientists, and then they would have to have institutions for teaching that knowledge and passing it down and so forth.
	Precisely.
	So, does this mean, Doctor, that it's likely that advanced civilization has come And gone, and possibly come and gone in long cycles of some sort that we don't know about?
	Well, the indication as far as I can see is that if there was a more advanced civilization, what we have now are merely fragmentary indications of it.
	So we really have to do a lot of research in order to pin down the evidence that it even existed.
	What I've proposed in the book is that, in fact, civilization has been interrupted by dark ages.
	In other words, instead of a gradual ascent from primitive times up to more advanced developments culminating in modern civilization, which we then expect to continue going up and up and up, civilization has had its ups and downs over many thousands of years.
	Kind of like the stock market.
	Well, yeah.
	Everything has its cycles, and you're saying that includes civilization.
	Do you have any idea what these down periods might have been?
	I mean, it would have to be something that would literally come along and almost knock it down to zero.
	Well, there's evidence that that has happened.
	For example, I've proposed that around 2500 BC, would be a time when this civilization we're talking about did exist.
	That would correspond pretty much to the old kingdom in Egypt, and in India, there's what was called the Indus Valley Civilization, which flourished around, let's say, 2300 B.C.
	say 2300 BC in that vicinity. So what happened is we know historically the Indus Valley civilization
	apparently died out.
	and...
	And it died out to such an extent that city life basically stopped in the area of India and Pakistan where that civilization flourished.
	And that civilization is famous for having very well laid out cities.
	Instead of just sort of higgily-piggily streets going every which way like you find in old medieval towns, they had cities that were laid out geometrically in a very precise way.
	But city life itself seems to have stopped for a period of centuries, and then maybe around 800-700 B.C.
	or so, it began to start up again and continued up to the present time.
	The India-Pakistan area.
	Well, but if ancient people had knowledge of the construct of the solar system, that would really indicate a rather high level of scientific knowledge.
	Yes, the remarkable implication is that at least if they knew in the same way that we know today, they had to have the technology of telescopes and Various scientific ideas based on how to use them and how to measure distances in the solar system.
	All of this would give, I would think, religious scholars and fundamentalists a bit of a difficult time because, of course, they have their own way of looking at all this, you know, Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden and the ejection and on from there and the whole story told in the Bible.
	I mean, this would This predates that so far, that it would be a problem, wouldn't it, for religious institutions to grasp what you're saying?
	Well, in one sense, I suppose some religious institutions would find it to be more or less in agreement with their views.
	Oh?
	I mean, even if you look at Christian fundamentalism, which, just since you mentioned that, They have the idea that before the flood there was a more advanced civilization that got wiped out.
	I'll just mention offhand, it's sort of a coincidence, but the story of the flood comes up in talking about this date of 3000 BC, which is something we can also come to.
	But the real objection to this kind of idea, concerning ancient civilization, really comes from modern scholarship.
	The basic standpoint of modern scholarship is that if you go back, let's say, to the known classical period, the time of the Greeks and the Romans and the Babylonians and so forth, people were pretty scientifically undeveloped in those days.
	And then, if you go back further, they must have been even more scientifically undeveloped.
	So there's a tendency To argue that if there is evidence that they were more advanced, there must be something wrong with that evidence.
	So it argues, it's like forbidden archaeology then.
	It's the scientists who would be most upset if they had to come to terms with what you believe to be true.
	Yes, basically.
	And there are political factors involved in this too.
	You know, in Forbidden Archaeology, we introduced the concept of the knowledge filter, which is that knowledge that disagrees with the predominant paradigm tends to get filtered out.
	Right.
	So, we're dealing with something similar in this case, and from a political standpoint, one of the motives behind the filtering process in this case is the tension between the The cultures of the East, India, and so forth, and of the West.
	So there's a tendency, for example, from people on the side of people in India to say, well, our civilization is very glorious and it goes back a very long time.
	Whereas there's a tendency to say, well, this is actually just due to their national pride, and it doesn't really go back so far.
	In fact, it doesn't go back as far as our civilization.
	Well, if we go back to the religious discussion for a moment, I think that it is widely believed that the flood was a result of angels down here messing around with earth women and God getting upset and saying, okay, flood, that's it, everybody out of the pool, whatever.
	That's kind of what's believed, right?
	basically and uh... so
	that that is not i would think necessarily
	what you believe it occurred or is it
	Oh, no.
	As for the cause of this Dark Age period that I mentioned, I'm not really saying anything about what that cause was.
	As far as I'm aware, perhaps the most likely argument for it is climactic.
	Of course, a flood is a climactic event.
	And one could guess that the hand of God could cause a big flood.
	Or a climate change, depending on how you look at it, right?
	Yeah.
	Climate change might be something as boring as a drought that lasted for a long time.
	There is evidence for that.
	By the way, this cessation of city life in the Indus Valley area is paralleled, apparently, by a similar interruption that you find in Babylon, ancient Greece, and so forth.
	All right.
	Doctor, hold it right there for a moment.
	So, it might have been a climate change.
	Now, let me see.
	I've been hearing something recently about a climate change.
	If that's what sort of stalls civilizations and puts them in a big black period where everything falls like the market did the other day, climate change.
	I know I've heard something about climate change recently.
	Could we be coming up on one of those periods?
	Well, I think it's time to get ready To realize just what I have found
	I have been only half of what I am Where are those happy days?
	All those happy days, they seem so hard to find I tried to wait for you, but you have lost your mind
	They seem so hard to find I tried to reach for you
	But you have closed your mind Whatever happened to our love?
	Whatever happened to our love?
	I wish I understood It used to be so nice, it used to be so good
	I wish I understood It used to be so nice
	It used to be so good So when you're near me darling
	So when you near me darling, can't you hear me SOS?
	The love you gave me, nothing else can save me SOS When you're gone, have you not even tried to go on?
	To reach Artvel in the Kingdom of Nigh from west of the Rotties Dial 1
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
	East of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222 or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
	To reach out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
	Good morning!
	By the way, I was so disrupted by everything that happened last night with the outage that I forgot to welcome a big new radio station to the network, WHAS in Louisville, Kentucky.
	Louisville, 840 on the dial.
	There are 50,000 clear channel locks, and they go in a giant circle from Louisville to about a third of the nation.
	So, we're on in Louisville now on WHAS.
	It's a monster, one of the top big signals in the nation.
	Welcome Louisville and WHAS.
	And by the way, hi to... I think it's Kelly Karras, who's the PD, and Steve Kirkland, who's the assistant PD there.
	Glad to be on board in Louisville.
	Welcome to one of the weirdest shows in the world.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	My guest is Dr. Richard L. Thompson, and we're talking about what came before.
	Way before.
	Climate change.
	Dr. Richard L. Thompson is my guest, and we're talking about His brand new book, and we're going to keep talking about it for as long as we can keep Dr. Thompson here.
	He may not be with us too long tonight, but I want to get in as much as I can.
	This is so intriguing.
	So, Doctor, do you think it might have been a vast climate change, the biblical flood, whatever you want to call it, something that occurred that just knocked everybody back?
	Well, we're not sure.
	How a flood comes into it.
	We know that people in ancient times were rather preoccupied with the idea of a flood.
	As for climate change, you'll find many scholars have argued that in fact there were periods of very intense drought in which civilization just couldn't keep going because the agricultural base was lost.
	There goes no food!
	No food.
	People had to revert to a nomadic way of life.
	So, there's evidence for that.
	Doctor, just for the fun of it, a lot of us have noticed that we seem to be going through a climate change right now, or at the beginning of one.
	Could another or a similar thing occur today?
	And if it did, would it knock modern civilization back quite a few steps, should it occur?
	If a vast drought or a vast flood Or global warming came along, the temperatures came up, the oceans began to inundate coastal cities, that sort of thing.
	Could it knock mankind back again?
	Well, presumably it could.
	That's what I thought.
	Alright, how convincing is the evidence that supports your contention here?
	Well, there's a lot of interlocking evidence.
	The evidence that I'm focusing on is mostly It's not quantitative, it's a matter of numbers.
	For example, this map of the solar system that I was talking about, you find that this ancient text, the Bhagavata Purana is the name of it, but in any case, this ancient text describes this disk of the Earth, and it gives numbers for the dimensions of the disk.
	And in the surface of this disk, there's a series of rings, and numbers are given for Dimensions of those rings.
	Now, those numbers are in a certain unit of measurement.
	And we have some evidence as to how long that was.
	So given that you know how big the rings are, and you compare those with planetary orbits, and you find that things match up.
	So it's a question of the numbers matching up, which indicates that, well, either They've matched up just by chance.
	It's just a coincidence.
	Or somebody must have known something.
	What did you say?
	1 in 20,000?
	Yeah.
	For this solar system map, I came up with an estimate about 1 in 20,000.
	twenty thousand the match would be that good
	uh...
	how i have to respect
	we sit here and say how how could they have known all of this
	Then how?
	Well, let's give an indication of what kind of knowledge we're talking about.
	Since we mentioned floods, I can tell the story of the date of the flood.
	I've mentioned 3000 B.C.
	The traditional date is February 18th, 3102 BC.
	And to some people that may sound a little bit silly.
	You know, why February 18th?
	In fact, it's midnight on February 18th.
	Well, the tradition goes that there was an alignment of planets at that time.
	Oh?
	Yeah.
	Now, if you go to India, you'll find that there are astronomical texts, which are basically traditionally used by astrologers for calculating horoscopes.
	They give you a way of For a given date, where do the planets line up around the ecliptic, and what are called the signs of the zodiac?
	So, these texts all assume that on February 18, 3102 B.C., that the planets all lined up, just like the horses at the start of a race.
	Now, is that confirmed by astronomers?
	You can mathematically back up, I would presume, almost forever.
	Can you not?
	And move the planets in reverse with a computer until you get to 3102 BC, February 18th, right?
	Right.
	And in fact, if you do that, you find that all the planets were in fact aligned on that date?
	Well, you don't.
	But you find it a thing that's equally interesting.
	What you find is, they were as closely lined up on that date as they ever get.
	Okay, well that's good enough.
	As closely lined up as they ever get.
	Yeah, well you see the interesting thing is, the planets, at least, if you run back the positions of the planets for thousands of years, like I did it for the span of time from 4000 B.C.
	up to 2000 A.D., 6000 year period.
	Using a modern computer program for calculating the positions of the planets.
	Gotcha.
	And I looked at how closely the planets line up.
	Well, they never line up exactly during that entire time.
	Probably they never do exactly.
	But if you look at how close they lined up at that date, and ask how many other dates there were in which they lined up equally closely or even more so, In that entire period, going day by day, there was only two other dates in which they lined up that closely.
	The reason I ask about this is because we had a planetary alignment.
	I can't remember how long ago it was.
	Everybody ran down to Sedona and chanted and everything.
	But the reason I'm asking is because Nothing really happened then, or maybe it did and we all didn't recognize it, I have no idea, but astronomers generally will tell us that it's all silliness, that planets lining up virtually means absolutely nothing.
	The gravitational influences are so weak that to imagine any effect from the planets simply lining up is ludicrous.
	A lot of astronomers will say that.
	Yes.
	What do you think?
	Well, that may be true, or may not.
	Or may not.
	In one sense, it's not quite relevant to the question we're facing here.
	What we do know is that in ancient times, people attached a lot of significance to planetary alignment.
	Yes.
	Now, whether they were right in doing so or not is another question.
	Well, if in fact they had a giant flood, 3102 before Christ, 3102 years before Christ, February 18th, then you can imagine they would begin to attach a significance to it.
	Well, perhaps that's how the traditions came up.
	But you see, the interesting thing is the significance of this date.
	As I say, if you look at a modern calculation taking into account the planets which were considered to be part of this alignment, You find that that date is right on the nose to the day for one of the closest alignments of planets to occur in an entire 6,000 year period.
	And you might ask, well, OK, how did that tradition come about?
	Well, we know that that date was talked about as far back as 500 A.D.
	There's a famous astronomer named Aryabhata who talked about that date, for example, and that's when he lived.
	So in 500 A.D., what did they know about astronomy?
	You see, I calculated backwards using a modern computer program.
	Right.
	What could they do in 500 A.D.?
	Not that.
	Not that, for sure.
	Well, the question is, well, how did they arrive at that date?
	Now, there's a standard story of how they did it.
	Now, interesting thing, if you go to Oxford University and around So, maybe the astronomers are correct, and there is no effect from the planets lining up.
	However, to the people who experienced the synchronicity of the planets lining up and the flood occurring, that could be how it all began, and that could be why we're all concerned about when the planets line up today.
	Yeah, well, the scholarly assessment of this is that what was happening, they trace all this back to Persia in a couple centuries B.C.
	or so, and they say that there were astronomers in Persia who wanted to know when the flood occurred.
	They were concerned about that, and they believed that the flood was caused by some alignment of planets.
	So the story goes that they were calculating backwards.
	Trying to find when all the planets lined up, because that would tell them when the flood was.
	So the idea is that they looked at conjunctions of Jupiter and Saturn.
	That's where Jupiter and Saturn line up.
	That happens about every 20 years.
	And they were going back by 20-year jumps, checking the other planets to see when everything lined up.
	Right.
	And that's how they arrived at the date.
	Well, the interesting thing about that story is that If you use the parameters that we have historically for how long it takes the planet to go around once in its orbit, you do find an alignment at that date.
	In fact, you find an exact alignment.
	But how did that come about?
	The parameters, of course, had errors in them.
	That is, we're talking about the parameters that they used back Around 2,000 years ago.
	Sure.
	So those parameters had errors.
	So the errors just happened to point to an alignment on that date.
	But if you look at errors of the size that they had in those parameters, and you go back to 3,000 BC or so, you're going to be off by plus or minus a couple of years.
	But they hit this best alignment date right to the day Which means the chance of doing that would be one in, you know, a couple of times 365.
	It'd be very unlikely that they would hit that exact date.
	It sure would.
	So the indication is that the reason their parameters point to that date is not that they were taking their crude parameters and working backwards, but that they already had that date and they adjusted their parameters to fit it.
	And that's why they point to that date.
	So the whole indication is that somehow or other, that date was known.
	And basically, it means one of two things.
	Either, let's say, there's a historical tradition coming down from that time, which means there was a civilization to transmit that all the way from 3102 BC down to the present.
	And that's how people knew.
	Or you'd have to say, they had better ways of calculating backwards, just as we do today.
	But either way, it's a bit of an extraordinary claim.
	It certainly is.
	The odds get to be awfully big, don't they?
	Yeah.
	By the way, there's a funny thing about that alignment of planets that occurs on that date.
	When we're talking about planets, basically we're talking about, of course, the moon.
	Of course, the moon is not It's not a planet, but it's a celestial body.
	One should say perhaps celestial bodies instead of planets.
	And we're talking about Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn.
	Uranus, Neptune and Pluto supposedly weren't known back in those days.
	In fact, they weren't discovered until recently.
	But a curious thing is that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto also are part of that alignment.
	This flat Earth, whatever it is, it really isn't a flat Earth description at all.
	You're telling me it includes those three planets?
	Well, I'm saying that alignment does.
	That alignment does.
	That alignment that occurred in 3102 BC.
	Right, on February 18th.
	If you look at the positions of Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto, they're in there too.
	The planets, as I say, aren't exactly lined up.
	They're sort of clustered.
	But Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto could Theoretically be anywhere around the whole circle of the ecliptic.
	So if you had to lean toward one explanation or the other between the planets or the alignment of the planets actually was a causative agent and the other explanation which is that it was a grand coincidence that they were clustered and noticed by a civilization, an advanced civilization at that time and then sort of mythologically carried forth as look out when the planets align Which explanation would you lean toward?
	Well, I would lean toward the historical explanation.
	Namely, saying that we're dealing with a tradition actually coming down from that time period.
	And there's a number of reasons for that.
	Basically, the way all the evidence fits together suggests to me that there's something historical.
	Now, one thing I mention in the book is This solar system map, going back to that topic, that involves a unit of length.
	It's called the Yojana, but it's about 8 miles, and all the distances are given in terms of that unit.
	The interesting thing is that this map of the orbits Tells you exactly how long the eugenics should be.
	The traditional information that I started out with said the eugenics should be 8 miles.
	And it actually comes out exactly at about 8.5, 8.49 something miles.
	Well, the interesting thing is that this opened up a whole avenue of exploration.
	Because I asked, well, is there any historical evidence for The use of a unit of that length.
	And it turns out, there's a lot of it.
	In fact, and that points towards ancient Egypt, as it turns out.
	Egypt, here we go again.
	Yeah, here we go.
	Basically, this Yojana unit is made up of subdivisions, and one of the smallest subdivisions It's called a hasta in Sanskrit, but the meaning is basically the same as a cubit.
	A cubit?
	Yeah, you know, the cubit is like the distance from the tip of your elbow to the end of your fingers.
	Yes.
	Now these, in ancient times, or just like today, these units tend to be based on human body parts.
	And sometimes you hear it said, well, people had a very crude way of measuring back in the old days, and they would just Alright, but it wasn't actually a measurement of a human body part.
	It just happened to align with that.
	Alright, Doctor, hold on.
	We're at the top of the hour.
	These units were always more exactly defined, but they just conveniently related to body
	parts just like the foot today.
	All right, but it wasn't actually a measurement of a human body part.
	It just happened to align with that.
	All right, doctor, hold on.
	We're at the top of the hour.
	We'll be right back.
	I'm not in love, so don't forget it.
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	I'm not in love, so don't forget it.
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	I'm not in love, so don't forget it.
	It's just a silly phase I'm going through.
	I'm not in love, so don't forget it.
	It's just a silly phase I'm going through.
	I'm not in love, so don't forget it.
	It's just a silly phase I'm going through.
	And just because I call you up, don't get me wrong, you'll think you got it made.
	I'm not in love, no, no.
	And I'm loving day by day People are getting ready for the moon
	Some are happy, some are sad Oh, we gotta let the music play
	Mm-hmm What the people need
	Is a way to make them smile It ain't so hard to do it you know how
	Get a message, get it all through Lord, their minds are gonna do just fine
	Oh, it's still a busy life Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies
	at 1-800-325-3255.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	To reach out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
	Maybe we don't know all we think we know about where we came from in the history of humanity.
	Maybe there's a lot more history there than we think there is.
	My guest is Dr. Richard L. Thompson, co-author of Forbidden Archaeology.
	You remember that one, right?
	And his brand new book, Mysteries of the Sacred Universe.
	We may go way back.
	We'll be right back.
	Once again, Dr. Richard L. Thompson.
	Doctor, a lot of people say, look, in fact, I've got this message from somebody in Carson City, Nevada.
	Any high-tech civilization, would leave behind lots of high-tech trash.
	Where's the advanced building materials?
	Where are the titanium tools?
	There'd be a lot of this kind of stuff left behind.
	If not that high-tech, then certainly high-tech enough that we'd be able to dig it up and find it.
	Well, that's a good question.
	However, you can't assume necessarily that when we talk about a more advanced civilization, that it was like our present civilization.
	I mean, where's the New York City of, you know, 3000 BC?
	New York City should leave quite a bit of trash in the environment, all those huge steel girders and so forth.
	A few thousand years from now, that should still be laying there so that people could look at it.
	Unless it was a very different kind of high-tech civilization, but it's hard to imagine how you would accumulate the knowledge that you're talking about tonight without some of the high-tech toys Yes, that is hard to understand.
	Basically, what we've got is, on the one hand, evidence that people did know, they did have more advanced knowledge, and were then faced with the question of trying to understand, well, how they could have known.
	It's quite true that we don't have all kinds of high-tech debris left over from thousands of years ago.
	We don't see that.
	There is one possible answer.
	Let me ask you about this.
	Are you familiar with the work of Sitchin, Zacharias Sitchin?
	Yes.
	Well, now that's the ancient astronaut theory.
	Let's just consider the possible explanations for how people could have known.
	Okay.
	Either they did it on their own, the way we did.
	Now, what is the minimum thing you would have to do?
	We're talking about advanced astronomy.
	And I can still go in later into the story about the connection with Egypt that we just mentioned before, but there you're talking about Earth measurement, which in modern terms, basically what you need are good telescopes.
	You have to make a telescope and you have to have some kind of calibrated device for sensitively measuring what direction it's pointing in.
	So if you've got that, you can do surveying.
	And you can figure out the dimensions of the Earth accurately.
	Right.
	You can also aim your telescope at the sky, and by making careful observations, you could deduce Kepler's laws, just like Johannes Kepler.
	He just lived in Medieval Germany, basically Renaissance Germany.
	He didn't have very much in the way of high-tech equipment, but he figured out Kepler's laws based on naked-eye observations by another fellow named Tycho Brahe.
	So it can be done without too much technical equipment at hand.
	But then to make the accurate measurements, you need good telescopes.
	So all you have to do is positive civilization sufficiently advanced so that you had people with the leisure to figure out those things.
	And you had the at least the telescope.
	So that's one way it could have happened.
	Now, another way, like you mentioned, is the ancient astronaut theory.
	Which in various forms says that, well, people were told by members of some more advanced extraterrestrial civilization.
	Now that theory, you can sort of shift that in different directions.
	You can either shift it in the direction of a material extraterrestrial civilization with spaceships, like in science fiction and so forth, and that gets you into the whole UFO topic and so on.
	Or you can shift it towards the more spiritual side and say, well, there could be a higher civilization of some kind on a spiritual level.
	Either way, they either had to figure it out on their own and absent the evidence of the hardware that would have allowed that, doesn't that make more likely the intervention scenario?
	Whether it be spiritual or extraterrestrial?
	It's possible.
	To me, though, the intervention scenario, the thing that really sort of indicates more that people could do it by themselves, is that there's a lot of evidence that, in fact, they were doing it by themselves.
	Although you can still say, well, maybe the key information that's hard to get came from All right, let's talk a little bit about that.
	We know that the measurements at the pyramids, for example, are astoundingly accurate.
	The way the pyramids were put together defies explanation to this very day.
	We don't know.
	I went and talked to the Curator of Giza, and the bottom line is that he doesn't have the slightest idea of how it was all done.
	Yeah, not only were the pyramids built with great accuracy, but the interesting thing is the units that were used in measurement are related to Earth measurement, mainly latitude.
	If you have a unit of measurement, the question is, how do you define it?
	We were talking earlier about defining a measurement unit based on body parts, like the foot.
	That's right.
	Well, or the cubit.
	Well, the more standard thing we have is there's some rod which is kept in the king's palace or the government buildings, which is the standard.
	And everyone refers to that.
	So that's the standard foot, let's say.
	But how do you get your standard in the first place?
	Well, one way to do it is to say, Take the length of a degree of latitude and subdivide it.
	And that gives you your unit.
	That way, you refer your unit to the dimensions of the Earth.
	So you've really defined it.
	Because later on, if somebody wants to know what it is, if they measure the Earth, then they can find out what the unit is.
	So that's done today.
	Well, that's the origin of the metric system, for example.
	The meter was defined.
	as 1 ten thousandth of the length of the meridian from the equator to the North Pole.
	That's the original definition. Of course, now they use atomic measurements and so forth to define it.
	But originally that's how it was done. Well, the indication is that if you go back to the
	old kingdom of Egypt, the units that were being used, and as you say, the Great Pyramid, for example,
	was laid out in a very precise way. So you can tell very precisely what some of the units were
	that were involved in that.
	And they turn out to be subdivisions of a degree of latitude.
	And that's the start of a whole long story.
	There's a fellow named Livios de Kini, who I think deserves to be better known.
	He reported on a whole study of ancient units, and his basic argument was that The units going back as far as this time period, let's say Old Kingdom of Egypt, were in fact based on accurate Earth measurements.
	So units of length, volume, and weight were all based scientifically on measurements of latitude.
	We didn't have the technology to do that.
	Right.
	But if the units are laying around, then it's either a coincidence that they relate to latitude or people had to know something.
	There's another person who's written a lot about this who deserves to be better known too.
	His name is Schwaller de Lubitsch.
	Never heard of him.
	Well, his name came up to me initially.
	You know, no doubt you know the story about the Sphinx, about how it may be a lot older.
	Oh yes.
	Well, Schwaller de Lubitsch was the person who first pointed out the erosion marks on the Sphinx.
	And John Anthony West picked up on that and, of course, investigated it further.
	So, Schwaller de Lubitsch lived in Egypt for a long time, and he made lots of measurements of the different monuments there.
	And he's written extensively on that subject.
	But basically what he found was that the units of measurement were, as others have also claimed, based on accurate Earth measurements.
	Okay, let's nail that one down.
	You say here the Egyptians not only knew the diameter of the Earth, but they also knew the magnitude of the Earth's equatorial bulge, which is not easy to measure even today.
	I mean, how in God's name, I guess I'll say that, could they possibly have known the diameter of the Earth?
	How could the Egyptians possibly have known?
	There's no way they could have known, and yet you're saying they knew.
	Well, just to say, why would you say that they knew?
	Well, I'll give you an example from Schwaller de Lubitsch.
	This illustrates the kind of thing that you're dealing with.
	So he was measuring this temple at Luxor.
	Okay, there's this big room inside the temple oriented north-south.
	So you measure the northern wall of the temple, and you find that it's 12 fathoms.
	Now a fathom, of course that's the English word for it, in terms of body parts, if you stretch your arms out, that's the distance from one fingertip to the other.
	But again, that had an exact definition.
	It turns out that the fathom is uh... one thousandth of a minute of latitude using modern figures for latitude and taking one thousandth of that for the fathom you find that the northern wall of the uh... room in the temple is twelve fathoms and the southern wall the length is twelve fathoms but there's a trick here uh... the two lengths are not exactly the same uh... because
	When you speak of a 1,000th of a minute of latitude, what latitude are you talking about?
	If the Earth was a perfect sphere, that would be the same anywhere from the equator up to the North Pole.
	But it's not.
	But it's not, because the Earth bulges out at the equator.
	Correct.
	So, it's slightly different.
	Well, what he found was, the northern wall was 12 fathoms, using the fathom as defined at the North Pole.
	The southern wall was 12 fathoms, as using the fathom that's slightly different defined at the equator.
	And he said, well, you can call it a coincidence.
	But then he said, but I've made many measurements of various monuments in Egypt, and I found this kind of thing coming up again and again.
	So let's call it a repeating coincidence.
	So this is an example of the The sort of evidence that it is there, it comes down to making many different measurements and finding this kind of thing coming up again and again.
	Now, another curious point has to do with the meter.
	As I mentioned, the meter is defined as originally is a ten millionth of the meridian quadrant, that is, from the equator up to the North Pole.
	But the Egyptians used the meter.
	And, well, how accurately did they use it?
	Well, again, he based this on measurements of different buildings.
	For example, one wall comes out to 25 meters with an error of plus or minus one centimeter.
	Another height of a wall comes out to two meters with a similar kind of very small error.
	Um, and there are a lot of measurements like that, which all seem to suggest that they were using the meter as a unit.
	But then again, why did they come up with that particular unit?
	I mean, if you're just going to come up with a unit arbitrarily, it could be anything.
	Sure.
	So, uh, but that unit is defined in terms of measurements of latitude.
	So the indication is that the Egyptians did know about about these things.
	And it's you can get some insight into the way they approached science.
	It's rather interesting.
	For example, to us, numbers are expressed in a pretty utilitarian way, like you say, 7.34 or whatever.
	And that's it.
	That's the number.
	The numbers that Schwaller de Lubitsch was talking about were, first of all, They tended to be defined by geometrical construction.
	And furthermore, they tended to have philosophy associated with them.
	So what you're seeing is a whole different approach to numbers.
	It's often said that the Egyptians had very crude ways of representing numbers.
	But the bottom line, Doctor, still is, the Egyptians were aware of the diameter of the Earth, something they could not possibly have been aware of.
	Right, and aware of the equatorial bulge, which they couldn't have been aware of.
	Okay, well, again, absent the scientific evidence of tools that would have allowed this for the Egyptians or anybody else way back when, I mean, what happens when a mathematician meets the metaphysical, which is sort of what might be happening here?
	Well, as I say, the approach I take is empirical to these things.
	In other words, let's look at the evidence.
	Now, the thing that came up in Mysteries of the Sacred Universe, which is the thing that got me interested in this whole thing, is that you have there a confirmation.
	In other words, if you go to Egypt and you find evidence that they could measure latitude accurately and so forth, that's one thing.
	You go to India, you look at this old text, and you say, well, I can discern here a map of the solar system, and they had accurate knowledge of the size of the planetary orbits.
	But then you find that those two things mesh perfectly.
	In other words, the way they mesh is this unit called the yojana, and the different subdivisions called hostas, or what we use the word cubits, They completely match units that were being used in Egypt.
	So you have... It's not possible, though.
	It's not possible.
	I mean, they weren't communicating, they weren't traveling.
	It just is not possible.
	Well, they must have been traveling.
	Now, speaking of traveling, there's another whole category of evidence that indicates that people were not only traveling between India and Egypt, which isn't so far-fetched, I mean, they had camels in those days, too.
	You could go from basically the Pakistan-Northern India area over to Egypt.
	It would have been a long trip, but it was possible.
	But there's indication of trans-oceanic travel also involved with this ancient cosmological system.
	I can tell you that story briefly.
	Basically, the way it works is if you look at this system of cosmology.
	As I mentioned, it talks about astronomy in geographical terms.
	Because as I was saying, one thing we started out with is the whole idea of the flat Earth.
	This cosmology has a flat Earth, but it turns out to be the solar system.
	Right.
	So, and there are a lot of details as to how it's defined.
	There's a central mountain, which is called Mount Meru.
	There's the idea of a tree of life associated with the mountain.
	There are four rivers that go at right angles.
	There's a whole series of features of this cosmology.
	You find them all over the world.
	In fact, you even find them among Indian tribes in South America.
	You find them in Africa and, of course, in ancient European cosmology.
	You find them among Indian tribes in North America also.
	Yeah, but that implies global communication or transportation.
	Right.
	It does.
	There are so many details which are there in common that it's hard to believe that people independently invented them.
	Because you can say, well, okay, people living in different places being psychologically and culturally more or less on the same level... Had ideas at about the same time.
	Yeah, they had the same kind of idea at about the same time.
	All right, all right.
	We've got to hold it right there.
	We're at the bottom of the hour already.
	But that's an awful lot of coincidence, wouldn't you say?
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM moving through the night a little warily this night after what happened last night here
	the world is on fire, no one can save me but you. The strange world design will make foolish people...
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	dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nye.
	It is indeed.
	Dr. Richard L. Thompson is my guest.
	He's co-author of Forbidden Archaeology.
	You know a lot about that.
	And he's author of a brand new book called Mysteries of the Sacred Universe.
	And of course, we've got a link to that on our website, as usual.
	If you want to learn more about what you're hearing tonight, just to think how wrong we could be about all of it.
	Once again, here is Dr. Richard L. Thompson.
	Ben in Indianapolis, Indiana writes, Doctor, if all this is true, Then, where are the global communications satellites?
	They'd have needed them for global communications.
	Global communications is necessary for a global society, which you're describing.
	Did they rust in space?
	Well, if you look at the British... Are you there?
	Oh, yes.
	Yeah.
	If you look at the British Empire, you'll see, well, they didn't really need communications satellites to run that.
	You know, the sun never set on it back in the 19th century, and they were using ships and Sometimes it took, you know, years to, say, go from London to Australia.
	Absolutely true.
	But look back a little further, say, to 3102 BC, or even anywhere near that date, they didn't, at least we didn't think they had ships to do that kind of traveling and communication.
	We don't think so.
	Let me just give you a simple example of that cultural evidence from around the world that I was mentioning.
	Take the Sioux Indians, for example, who live up in the Dakota area.
	Now, in this cosmological system from India, there's also a chronology of what's called yuga cycles.
	Basically, the idea is there are four periods of time in the history of the earth, and one goes through a cycle in which these repeat.
	And the story from India is that the first of these periods, things are very nice.
	It's like a golden age.
	In fact, the Greek idea of the golden age, silver, bronze, and iron, corresponds to this.
	So, the Indian story is that the bull of dharma, or religious virtue, loses one leg during each successive period.
	So that's a way of expressing the idea that the successive periods in this group of four become more and more degraded until finally you come to the last one which is called Kali Yuga or the Age of Quarrel and the bull has only one leg left.
	He's tottering on one leg and that finally collapses.
	So you go to the Sioux Indians living in the plains of America.
	They have a story about four ages that go in a cycle.
	And there's a buffalo, a sacred buffalo, and it loses one leg during each of the four ages.
	And finally, in the last age, it's left on one leg.
	And when that finally collapses, there is, oddly enough, a flood, and the whole cycle starts over again.
	So, the parallel is pretty close.
	So that would seem to indicate that somehow or other, the same tradition wound up there in North America, in this Indian tribe that was there in India, and of course the connection is there with Greece.
	So, you see evidence that somehow people did get around.
	Well, okay, but how?
	How they got around, or information got around, Yeah, they could have.
	Of course, you know, the really slow way to do it is to walk and, you know, take boats over small stretches of ocean.
	In a way, it's not so surprising.
	Just to mention something a little bit off the theme, there's evidence of an Indian tribe up in the Yukon area of Alaska and Canada that had traditions of being driven out of their homeland by a certain warrior.
	They had a lot of information about this warrior.
	Well, somebody investigated this and they found that the descriptions of this warrior really match the life history of Genghis Khan very nicely.
	And the indication is, well, this tribe was living in Asia somewhere, and when Genghis Khan expanded his conquests, They took off for America, which supposedly wasn't discovered yet, but perhaps they didn't know that.
	So they managed somehow to travel by boat, and they wound up in Alaska.
	So it is possible for people to get around.
	Well, all right, I suppose so.
	But for the knowledge to be similar and scattered as far as you suggested, That's a lot of walking.
	Well, you need ships, too.
	And you need ships, too.
	You've got to have good ships at some point.
	Because we're talking about continents away at a time when... Well, I don't know.
	I guess the evidence is pretty strong that it happened.
	The overriding question is how?
	Yeah.
	Well, you see, I mean, to take the British Empire as an example, that was based on wooden ships and, of course, chronometers for navigating.
	And they had the technology to, at a certain point, make accurate astronomical measurements.
	For example... Yes, but we have lots of physical evidence of all of that, and to have That much knowledge so long, thousands of years ago, there should be at least some physical evidence left of how that was achieved scientifically and then transported or communicated worldwide.
	Right.
	Well, let me give you another example of what can happen to physical evidence.
	Good, yes.
	This one is pretty well accepted.
	It's called the Antikythera computer.
	Now, I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing that correctly.
	It's the name of a Greek island off the coast of Greece.
	Computer, did you say?
	Computer.
	Well, it's a very curious thing.
	This was found in a shipwreck.
	And it consists of brass plates, shafts and gear wheels that mesh together.
	Yes.
	And apparently it was a device for telling where the planets are at any given time.
	There's a central dial.
	You set that to the date, and you look in a series of little windows, and there'll be a window for each planet, and what comes up in the window would be an indication of what sign of the zodiac that planet is in at that time.
	When was this found?
	When was it found?
	A few decades ago.
	A few decades ago, and when was it dated?
	Well, they date it pretty accurately to, I think, about 64 AD.
	A.D.
	A.D.
	in the Roman period.
	It was a Greek merchant ship and it had trade goods which they can date based on the kind of trade goods that were there, different pottery styles and things like that.
	So on that basis they get the date.
	So the interesting thing is this was apparently a pretty sophisticated device.
	It was a bit hard to figure out exactly how it was constructed because the different plates of metal were fused together by corrosion.
	But they x-rayed it and they were able to determine basically what it was.
	And it used a very sophisticated system of gear wheels and shaft.
	At 64 A.D.
	Right.
	That was certainly as advanced, if not more advanced, than a good clock, a good mechanical clock.
	Indeed.
	And more advanced, because a good mechanical clock merely gives you hours, minutes, and seconds, but this gave you the position of Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, and I presume the Moon also.
	So, the question is, alright, did this thing just exist in a vacuum?
	See, the interesting thing is, there is, as far as I'm aware, no documentation from ancient times talking about anything even remotely like this.
	There are no other physical examples of anything like this.
	Well, alright, fine.
	How are archaeologists or astronomers explaining this, or are they not bothering to?
	Well, one just has to say, logically, that Obviously, there were people who did build these things.
	Presumably, it's not just one-of-a-kind.
	Although, only one has been found.
	Only one has been found, and that was purely by chance.
	And you believe that it was accurately dated.
	Is that correct?
	I have no reason to doubt the date.
	I mean, that's pretty standard conventional dating based on the goods in the ship.
	So, yeah, the date is pretty clear.
	The fact that it's one-of-a-kind is You know, that's factual.
	So what one has to infer is there must have been some body of knowledge involved.
	First of all, in the theory of how the thing works.
	And secondly, in the technology of how you actually do that with with gear wheels to make a machine like that.
	And there must have been a market for it, too.
	In other words, it was on the way to go somewhere.
	It was going somewhere.
	And we know, of course, why people would have been interested, because astrology was very important in ancient times, and so people had a reason for having a machine like that.
	It would certainly make it easy.
	You just set the dial and you have your horoscope.
	So, in any case, apart from that one example, all the evidence has disappeared, including any reference to such a thing.
	And how would you account for that disappearance?
	If there was one machine, there should have been many machines, unless it was a prototype being transported somewhere.
	But I mean, that's a reach.
	There must have been a lot of similar technology to support that, to get to that point.
	Where has all that gone?
	Right.
	It disappeared.
	And that seems to be one observation to make about the past.
	A lot of things do disappear.
	And there are probably a lot of things that we don't know about at all, because the one surviving example is still sitting on the bottom of the ocean somewhere.
	And it hasn't been found.
	That's a good point.
	So the evidence may be there, and we just haven't found it yet.
	There's a lot we haven't done.
	Yeah.
	So it's possible that many things could be lost.
	Now, another thing concerning science The whole question of technical knowledge and secrecy.
	Of course, there are traditions saying that in ancient times there were schools of knowledge that were kept secret.
	And the fact is, a lot of scholars will tend to basically criticize that idea, saying, well, that's a very likely story.
	You're not one of them, I take it.
	Well, the point I'd like to make about secrecy Two things.
	One is, there are traditions of secrecy and knowledge.
	I know in India, if you look at the astronomical texts, you'll find actual statements in them saying that this is only to be taught to a student of the guru who has been loyally serving for so and so many years and so forth.
	Absolutely.
	In other words, the knowledge was restrained.
	It wasn't just let out.
	Well, Doctor, human behavior is something of a constant.
	I mean, we're still doing that today.
	Yeah.
	So, no surprise there.
	I guess then you're right.
	It could have been knowledge that was passed down to an elite few for literally thousands of years.
	That's quite possible.
	And then the other point is that technical knowledge tends to be an open secret.
	Simply because it's so technical, it's not easy to assimilate.
	How many people really want to get into all the technical details of how you measure an orbit?
	Not too many, but you have to do that to begin to make the claims that you've made here.
	Right.
	You need some small elite, as you say, school of scientists.
	It wouldn't have to be a large number of people.
	And then the danger is that if it's a very small group, and then there's a disruption of the society, then that knowledge can be lost.
	Now some things have changed, Doctor, because a mathematician talking about the things that you're talking about now, just a very few hundred years ago, would have been, you know, roped up on a stake and burned.
	So times are better.
	Well, yeah.
	That is good.
	I mean, really, it's absolutely true.
	You could not have talked this sort of heresy with regard to everything we thought we knew was right, which now may all be wrong, without getting yourself killed.
	No, and now we have outlets for talking about it, such as your show.
	We do.
	That's true.
	Although it's been a little strange here lately, frankly.
	But yes, we do have outlets to talk about this sort of thing.
	What you really are saying is that everything we thought might be true about how man progressed might be all wet, all wrong.
	Well, there might be a few things to learn about it.
	Let me mention another far-out story.
	Sure.
	This has to do with robots.
	Robots?
	Robots.
	Automata.
	There's, of course, in modern times we have a science fiction, you know, genre having to do with robots.
	Yes.
	And we don't have very many real examples.
	No, we don't.
	We have not come as far with robotics as we were supposed to have by this time.
	Right.
	So, interesting thing is if you go to medieval India, go back to say 1100 AD, Yes.
	There was a very flourishing science fiction literature then about robots.
	Was there really?
	Yeah.
	Quite detailed.
	I mean, at least as imaginative as Isaac Asimov and so forth.
	Really?
	So, yeah, there were novels in which robots figured.
	There was even one novel in which it was postulated that there was a whole city in which all the people were robots.
	There was no actual live person in the city.
	But there were all these people going about their business, but they were all machines.
	My, my, my.
	Well, going further, the literature contains some references to machines that could have been built.
	You see, just like you have, on the one hand, science fiction, where the claims tend to get pretty wild, like robots that can actually talk and think and so forth.
	But without the technology, At least the basic technology to imagine such things, they had no reference point from which to imagine such things, even in science fiction.
	Yeah, well that's where you get to this other aspect of the literature.
	You see there's a lot of literature about automata in the palaces of kings.
	Now just to give you an example, One is an automatic door opener.
	An automatic door opener?
	Pardon me?
	An automatic door opener, I said.
	I repeated what you said.
	I'm sorry.
	I couldn't help it.
	It's sort of like what you have in supermarkets.
	Well, the way this one worked, this is plausible.
	You could see how someone could build it.
	How did it work?
	Well, you walk towards the door, and your weight presses on a slab which opens a valve.
	Then hydraulically, this figure of a guard, which is powered hydraulically, he has some mechanism, reaches over and opens the door for you.
	Are you saying that existed or you theorize it existed?
	All I'm saying is it's described.
	It's described, so it probably existed.
	That's incredible.
	Well, you know, I mean, I can see how You know, given a clever person and given the funding the King would have, you could build something like that.
	Work me up an automatic door opener.
	Right.
	Listen, Doctor, we're at the top of the hour, and I can give you a choice to stay on, or I know you had a limited amount of time, so I'll let you make the choice.
	Well, I could stay on for a bit.
	Okay.
	Then, in that case, when we come back, I would like to open the lines after I finish thinking about an automatic door opener and let some people ask questions.
	How would that be?
	Okay.
	Alright, stay right there.
	Boy, how would you like to be the King's Science Advisor?
	You're called before the game.
	says look I want this automatic door opener and I want it next week or off
	with the head so they made it you have been wrecked my brain hoping to find a way out. I've
	had enough of this continual...
	good morning mr. sunshine you You brighten up my day.
	Come sit beside me in your way I see you every morning outside the restaurant
	You know, I've been thinking...
	There is one other way that an entire culture could be destroyed.
	And we've got a really recent example of it.
	Think for a second.
	Do you know what it is?
	Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	618-8255, east of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at area code 775-727-1222 or call the wildcard line
	at 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Have you got it yet?
	No?
	Keep thinking, we'll get to it after the commercial break.
	Once again, Dr. Richard L. Thompson, we're going to go to the phone shortly, but Doctor, a few things occurred to me as we were thinking about how, you know, culture or science of a certain period might be erased.
	I was watching TV the other day, and I was watching, I'm sure you saw, the Taliban in Afghanistan.
	Taking two gigantic statues of Buddha, gigantic things, built into the side of mountains, and blowing the hell out of them with dynamite or whatever they used.
	Just absolutely destroying every artifact in Afghanistan that they thought would be some sort of false idol.
	I mean, just destroying it!
	Erasing it!
	Erasing history!
	And it's enough to cry about.
	It's like, why didn't they burn some books while they were at it?
	Or you can go back, not all that far, and recall Mao's Cultural Revolution, where everybody with eyeglasses was shot.
	And anybody who was thought to be smart, or have knowledge, was killed.
	And then go back and look at what the Germans were up to.
	And so, you know, really, humanity's been doing this for a long, long time, and one can imagine there were some pretty sick periods in humanity's A history where we decided we were going to erase something we didn't like, right?
	Yes, indeed.
	I mean, that's one factor as to how knowledge could get destroyed.
	One is also reminded of the burning of the library in Alexandria.
	Sure.
	I guess it was burned three times.
	One accidentally, in the time of Anthony and Cleopatra, and then the Christians burned it and the Muslims finally finished it off.
	And that library contained a vast number of ancient documents.
	Actually, many of us don't realize how fragmentary our knowledge of ancient times really is.
	A lot of references we have to ancient authors are only contained in the works of other authors in which they just referred to them or summarized what they said.
	But we don't have the actual original works.
	All right, I'd like to go to the phones and let a few people ask questions.
	On the first time caller line, hello there, you're on the air with Dr. Thompson.
	Hello.
	Yes, hi.
	Hi, this is Leslie in Portland.
	Hi, Leslie.
	I just want, actually, I read a lot about Egypt.
	I'm really interested in that, ancient Egypt.
	And I do know they found a couple of boats buried there that are about, you know, 143 feet, I believe, long.
	Anyways, I've read a little bit and I've heard that they would actually be seaworthy.
	The crows are high enough and they could actually be sailed on the sea.
	So I thought that might kind of go along with what you were saying about how the information is spread out so far.
	Doctor?
	Yes, quite possibly.
	There's certainly evidence that People did have seafaring boats at a fairly early time in history.
	There are the Phoenicians, for example.
	Of course, this is still controversial from a scholarly point of view, but there's a substantial amount of evidence indicating that the Phoenicians visited the New World.
	There are Phoenician inscriptions.
	For example, there's the Pariba Stone, a Phoenician inscription in Brazil.
	And so forth.
	So in ancient times, people probably were able to cross the various oceans.
	Yeah, that would explain it.
	I also wonder what you might think about, there's a map, ancient maps of Antarctica that show it as it might have, as it would have been without the ice.
	And we're just now finding out, with our test that we're doing now, that that actually is, you know, an accurate representation.
	Well, there's a whole story there about ancient maps.
	There is a fellow named Charles Hapgood, who wrote a book called Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings.
	And he talks about that one.
	I think you're referring to probably the Peary Reef Map.
	Yes.
	Piri Reis was a Turkish admiral in the Ottoman Empire back, I guess, I think it would be about the Renaissance period.
	But Hapgood analyzed that map and he found that a section of the coastline corresponded to Antarctica.
	Then again, there's another map by a Renaissance mapmaker named Phineas, I believe.
	Which shows a southern continent which has, coincidentally perhaps, pretty much roughly the shape of Antarctica.
	Except that it's rotated.
	It's not in the same orientation.
	Right.
	So, that's interesting evidence.
	Actually, in Hapgood's book, the most amazing thing that struck me had to do with what he called the, what are called the Portolano Maps of the Mediterranean Sea.
	These maps are extremely accurate.
	They date from about 1300 to 1200 AD.
	Now, in those days, people didn't have a good method of measuring longitude.
	Right, they didn't have the chronometer.
	Right, yeah.
	The chronometer came about in the 1700s.
	So, back in those days, they couldn't really measure longitude very well.
	And yet they did.
	The official sort of scholarly accepted maps of the Mediterranean in those days looked horrible.
	They were completely distorted.
	But these Portolano maps, which were used by the uneducated sailors, were highly accurate.
	And so you can ask, well, how did that come about?
	I actually did a computer study of those Portolano maps, in which you match the Portolano map with a modern map.
	And see how accurate it is, and they're quite amazing.
	All right, thank you very much, Caller.
	Dr. Brian from Covina, California, brings up an interesting point, too.
	He says, what if diseases are what wiped out old cultures, and archaeology is what brings them back to us?
	After all, he says, diseases like AIDS, mad cow, and so forth, always spring up out of nowhere, right?
	That is right.
	Well, as far as we know, or seemingly spring up out of nowhere, even with the best of the medical science that we have right now, we still have AIDS and no cure.
	We still have Mad Cow and no cure in sight.
	Yeah, we can only speculate as to how it originated, perhaps from monkeys or whatever.
	Precisely.
	That's all we're doing is speculating.
	It's still here killing people, and so that could have occurred and certainly could have wiped out Civilizations could have wiped out entire continents, if not more, if they really had that kind of travel.
	And archaeology is the only thing that we can go back and even sort of piece together what might have been.
	Well, certainly disease could have been a factor.
	The Black Death, of course, set back Europe for a couple of centuries, although it didn't wipe out the culture.
	You'd need a pretty strong epidemic to really destroy culture.
	But when we're talking about scientific knowledge, as I mentioned before, you're talking about perhaps a very small elite group.
	So even though the society as a whole may go on, the basic social structure, you can easily disrupt the conditions in which science could flourish.
	All right.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Thompson.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	Where are you?
	Portland, Oregon, once again.
	Yes, sir.
	This is Eric going out of Portland.
	First comment is for you, Art.
	Quite an amazing thing that happened earlier today, wasn't it?
	Or yesterday?
	I do have to comment because I am a former resident of Las Vegas and I was actually in contact with some people down there and we're having more than one affirmation as to something strange.
	And secondly to you, Art, if you actually leave the office today, And get out into the open desert, you might find that glow you're looking for.
	Might.
	Do you have a question for my guest?
	Yes, I do.
	Absolutely.
	Dr. Richard, I have a question regarding, first of all, the sphinx and the predating of Old Kingdom Egypt.
	Funny thing is that you had an earlier caller, which Art, I think, is a very good colleague of yours, Richard C. Hoagland, that made quite a few references to backdating Old Kingdom Egypt and the Sphinx as well, prior to the Flood, which was, according to Carbon Dating, which Carbon Dating is not really a A good theory for basis of anything anymore, but quite frankly that the erosion of the Sphinx had to have come from water that had settled within the region that couldn't happen anywhere before the flood, which would make the Sphinx far more backdated than 3000 BC.
	than 3000 BC. Secondly, quite frankly, in relation to cultures visiting this earth,
	we'd have to look to Cydonia and kind of wondering, maybe, is it pre-planetoid visitors from Cydonia
	that actually came to this earth?
	Simply put, were we simply spawns of Martian civilization?
	All right.
	I don't know.
	Were we spawns of Martian civilization or of some other alien civilization?
	It's one possibility, right Doctor?
	Well, let's see.
	To respond to those two questions, first of all, regarding the Sphinx, Now, as I understand it, the story there is that the Sphinx has on its backside erosion marks of the kind that would be produced by flowing water.
	I saw them in person, yes.
	Yeah, as opposed to the kind of erosion marks produced by wind-blown sand.
	That's right.
	Which has a different appearance.
	That's right.
	So, and a geologist Let's see, as I mentioned, Schwaller de Lubitsch first noted this, and then John Anthony West followed up on it.
	And he got a geologist, whose name I forget at the moment, from Boston University, who confirmed that this really does seem to be what any geologist would call effects of water erosion.
	And, of course, the point is that this is a desert region, and the last time that it rained there would have been in what was called the Pluvial Period.
	Toward the end of the last ice age, at which time the Sahara Desert region would have been well watered and with flourishing vegetation and so forth.
	So the indication was, well, the Sphinx must date back that far if it has these erosion marks, because where could the water come from?
	Is there another answer?
	That's the basic answer as far as I'm aware.
	It seems to push the Sphinx back.
	Now, the conventional dating dates the Sphinx, I seem to recall, to Khufu or Chephren.
	I forget.
	One of those pharaohs associated with the pyramids.
	But the link there is a little bit circumstantial.
	So it may be that this pharaoh merely renovated the Sphinx instead of actually building it in the first place.
	So that could be a much older monument.
	So there are indications there of the culture going back a lot further than is thought.
	Actually, the curious thing is, the old kingdom of Egypt, the dynasties of the pharaohs and so forth, are dated back to 3100 B.C.
	That's when the pre-dynastic period ended and the dynastic period began.
	Which is a date we've come up with in another context also.
	But in any case, going to the second point concerning the, you can call it the Ancient Astronauts Theory, the idea that we've gotten information from some extraterrestrials or something like that.
	Let me just give you a perspective on that.
	It's a little bit different from, I think, what is usually described.
	All right.
	I was mentioning the literature about the automata.
	Well, one aspect of this literature is that it talks about flying machines.
	Flying machines?
	Yeah, called Vimanas.
	That's the name for them.
	Well, it turns out there's Just as there's medieval literature about robots, which is pretty clearly fictional, plus some evidence of robots like that door opener, which you could build, and which a king might, you know, like to have in his palace just as, you know, for ostentation and so on.
	If not his garage door.
	Right, for his chariot.
	So also there's literature on flying machines.
	Uh-huh.
	With stories involving the flying machine.
	You know, the young couple elopes and they take off in the airplane, basically.
	There are stories like that.
	Now, see, I always thought it was Orville Wright and company.
	Right.
	Well, this predates that by a bit.
	A bit.
	Certainly, the literature is there, whether they actually built such things or not.
	Well, is there anything in literature that describes something that would be aerodynamically sound that could fly?
	Or is it more descriptive of something that would have a system that we don't even understand today to achieve?
	Well, curiously enough, there are two categories of flying machine accounts.
	Now, one of them, quite frankly, sounds like the modern day UFO reports.
	Right.
	Something that flies in a way that we don't understand.
	For example, just briefly to mention the Vimana associated with King Salva in some of the Indian historical literature.
	It was brightly glowing.
	It danced through the sky like a firefly in a wind.
	It could sometimes make multiple images of itself.
	Sometimes it would disappear.
	That sounds a lot like the stuff that I have described to me today in Ufology.
	Right.
	And there are a number of accounts like that.
	So, one category is, you could say, the UFO-like ancient flying machine, or Vimana.
	And the other?
	The other is the human-manufacturable type of Vimana.
	Now, for example, there's a description of the light wooden Vimana, Lagudaru Vimana, actually.
	It has wings.
	It's made of a light wooden framework.
	Wings as in an airplane, a fixed wing aircraft, or wings as in a bird?
	Well, the description, it may sound like a bird or a fixed wing aircraft.
	It's a little bit ambiguous.
	But, wooden wings.
	Wooden wings.
	That much we know.
	And it's said to be powered by something involving heating mercury in a vessel.
	And I really don't know how that would work, but there's a description like that.
	And furthermore, whatever this propulsion device was, it made a lot of noise because there's the story that one would use this to sort of swoop down over war elephants and make them stampede because of the very loud noise that it made.
	So, it sounds like something that human beings could build, except, of course, obviously, one thinks they couldn't build it, you know, before Orville and Wilbur.
	But, in any case... You're just wrecking all kinds of things this morning.
	Just really wrecking all kinds of things that we thought were true.
	Doctor, hold on, we're at the bottom of the hour.
	Doctor Richard L. Thompson is my guest.
	And his book is The Mysteries of the Sacred Universe.
	Door openers.
	Airplanes.
	You name it.
	Apparently, we've had it all before.
	I'm not sure.
	Ooh, and it's alright, and it's coming on.
	We gotta get right back to where we started from.
	Love is good, love can be strong.
	We gotta get right back to where we started from.
	And you remember that day, when you first came my way.
	I said no one can take your place.
	You know, if you think about it, maybe we always go back to where we started from.
	To reach Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
	1-800-618-8255, east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-725-4255.
	To reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
	free international line call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
	Dr. Richard L. Thompson is my guest, co-author of Forbidden Archaeology and the author of the brand new book called
	Mysteries of the Sacred Universe.
	Right back where we started from.
	Sound of thunder Whew, that sound works so well for so many things like
	climate change.
	All right, Dr. Thompson, welcome back.
	Let's do one more segment and answer some phone calls.
	We've got so many people who would like to talk to you.
	OK.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Thompson.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Mike calling from Azusa, California.
	Hi, Mike.
	Listening on KFI 640 AM Morris Stimulating Talk Radio.
	Boy, that's how you do it!
	Okay.
	A couple of years ago I bought a copy of your book, Vedic Cosmology, and I want to compliment you on your obvious command of the ancient sources.
	It appears at that time you were affiliated with the International Society for Krishna Consciousness.
	I was wondering if that was still the case.
	Yeah, it is.
	Oh, okay.
	Very interesting.
	Have you found that you find yourself making common cause with, say, Christian creationists, because they ask similar questions about inconsistencies?
	Yes, there's some common cause there.
	I had the pleasure of recently attending one session where they were pointing out things like what they call interstriate Fossils, in other words, where one fossil goes across what's supposedly several million years of strata in geological time and that sort of thing.
	Well, of course, one school of Christian creationism wants to make everything very young.
	Yeah, so that's the young earth approach.
	Right.
	The young earth approach.
	Basically, in the work I've done, I have more or less assumed the broad validity of the geological time scale.
	And I haven't really seen much reason to doubt that.
	Now, of course, you can say there's a motive there, because in the Indian Vedic cosmological system, they speak about very long time spans.
	Like the day of Brahma is a bit more than four billion years in length.
	So that's compatible with the geological time scale, although the events that occur during those time periods As described in the Vedic literatures, would be different from the events in the geological history.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Wildcard Line, you are on the air with Dr. Thompson.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Art.
	Good morning, Doctor.
	This is Christopher calling from Honolulu, Hawaii, listening to you on KHVH, the Big 8, 30 a.m.
	Once you get it started, people do those promos.
	It's great.
	Well, that's the way you want it.
	Yes, sir.
	I try to remember every time.
	Well, two things, Doctor.
	I'd like to talk to you about the first subject you touched on and then the next subject.
	I'll try to make it brief so hopefully somebody else can get on.
	Art, I just wanted to say last night I got in at the last minute and I didn't get a chance to finish what I wanted to say.
	What I really wanted to say at the end was I thought you were magnificent last night, the way you handled that debate as a moderator.
	Oh, thank you.
	And unfortunately, you were untimely interrupted, but you were just fantastic.
	Thank you.
	They always get us at the most dramatic point, is where we have these incredible occurrences.
	Anyway, if you have a question.
	Absolutely.
	Okay, well, as far as the planets affecting the changes on the Earth, the only thing I'd like to point out, scientists for some time now have had a real fixation on astrology like it's some kind of, you know, bad boy, and they've divorced themselves from it, and now they're persecuting it the way they themselves were persecuted a few hundred years ago by religion.
	Unfortunately, they're overlooking data that's right under their nose.
	Astrophysicists have recently discovered planets around other stars by the effect those planets have on the stars causing the wobble.
	That effect is generated by gravity wave.
	You know, gravity, what they used to call the weak force.
	The other thing I might point out about that is that we have black holes in the center of all our galaxies, apparently.
	And those black holes are sucking in whole galaxies.
	And it's not because the galaxies are falling into the holes.
	It's because they generate a gravity wave.
	So gravity and electromagnetism do affect, you know, these planetary movements.
	And it's like they're trying to say as if, well, the planets can affect a star and make it wobble.
	But they can't affect each other.
	How does that work?
	I don't understand that.
	Let's ask the doctor.
	It's a very good question.
	Well, of course, I haven't really done any extensive research into astrology.
	I know there are some controversial points there.
	People will argue that if you calculate the gravitational effect of, say, The planet Jupiter on a human body, you get a very, very tiny quantity.
	Of course, even if there is some effect, it doesn't necessarily have to be gravitational.
	It could be something else.
	So it's really an empirical question.
	First of all, is there some effect to be explained?
	And then secondly, then what is the explanation?
	Just like in this whole discussion, the argument has been there is evidence for a more advanced ancient civilization, But then, one has to explain, well, okay, what became of, say, the physical evidence?
	All this stuff, yes.
	Doctor, in fact, that's exactly the point, the second point I wanted to touch on.
	I'll try to make it real brief and then I'll get off and listen.
	You know, we've had so many earth upheavals, okay?
	And I can tell you right now, you mentioned earlier about, you know, the big iron beams or steel beams and girders from the skyscrapers and whatnot.
	uh... you know they would last very long if it's an ice age came along and and
	giant uh... glaciers grounded into nothing but even if you leave birders
	still birders out in twenty or thirty years they're already resting away to
	nothingness the only thing it would be left would be the big concrete
	foundations and that's what we see these ancient civilizations
	We see huge, like the big block of ball back and these giant inexplicable foundations of what we assume were pyramids or maybe they were skyscrapers for all we know.
	But the fact of the matter is there's not much left.
	And even if our civilization stopped today because of something, The people who are surviving in the jungles of Borneo, South America and Africa are living precisely the way they've lived for the past 500,000 years.
	They haven't been touched by these changes.
	So that's the point I'd like to make, is that we're too arrogant.
	We think that our civilization, oh, if we have satellites, that makes us special.
	But hey, the mirror's falling on our head right now.
	And if there were satellites up there 10,000 years ago, you think they're still orbiting when gravity's pulling them inexorably in?
	So that's my point, and I'll bid you good night again.
	All right.
	Thank you very much.
	It's actually a point well taken.
	He just raised a pretty good point.
	There could have been satellites orbiting the Earth, and they would have long since crashed back and burned up.
	Yeah, they would have crashed.
	Yeah, well, the mention of Baalbek is interesting.
	There you have extremely large stone blocks.
	Let me see.
	I forget the dimensions exactly, but I think no one has technology today to move those around, especially through somewhat rugged terrain, which they have there.
	And yet they did that, and who knows what they supported.
	Right.
	As he pointed out, we don't know, and it would have been long since gone.
	Yeah.
	All kinds of things could have disappeared.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Thompson.
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Oh, okay.
	Hi, I'm Colin from Miami.
	Yes, sir.
	I had a couple of questions, actually.
	As far as... You've forgotten your question?
	I should.
	Just relax.
	It'll come rushing right back to you.
	As far as ancient people, we know that scientists...
	We're pretty much taboo, I guess, and they were really spiritual people also.
	What do you think of the possibility that all the... they didn't have technology as we see it today, per se, but if they didn't need the technology because they were spiritual and they had a form of remote viewing and this is how they Transmitted information.
	Yeah, okay, I think I've got it.
	I don't know that science was always taboo.
	I think that it's gone through periods when it's been taboo, as I explained a little earlier, where we have tried to erase a certain science or a certain knowledge.
	We've killed people for it.
	We've blown things up as they're doing in Afghanistan today.
	You don't have to look very far back to see the efforts that have been made.
	So science has not always been taboo.
	It appears to have come and gone.
	Wouldn't that be closer, Doctor?
	Well, yes, and the approach to science wasn't necessarily the same as it is today.
	I mentioned earlier regarding the units in Egypt.
	If you look at this book by Schwaller de Lubitsch, for example, he explains how The numbers were treated geometrically and philosophically.
	So the people were thinking about things in a different way, but yet they were just as intelligent as we are, and they were able to make scientific observations and analyses, but their whole perspective was different.
	Now, he did raise one interesting point, and that was that perhaps people had skills.
	Today we talk about remote viewing.
	And various ways of knowing things at great distances, actually being able to describe physical things at a great distance, things that are sort of cutting-edge technology today that may have been commonplace thousands of years ago.
	That's certainly a possibility, isn't it?
	Well, I could tell you a story relating to that.
	I was going to mention another perspective on the ancient astronaut theory, and I got into Vimanas, but what I was leading up to There's this book called Vimanika Shastra.
	It's a Sanskrit text.
	And there's a very interesting story about that.
	It's a book about how to build airplanes.
	Now, if you read this in English translation, it sounds pretty lurid and fantastic.
	Like, you know, some science fiction.
	But, two interesting points concerning it.
	Number one is, very briefly, where it came from.
	The story is, this was transmitted psychically.
	This relates to what you're saying about remote viewing.
	Yeah, here we go, sure.
	Yeah.
	What happened was, there was this guy, Subbaraya Shastri, who was a fairly ignorant village boy in India.
	No education, particularly.
	And the story goes that a yogi cured him of smallpox.
	He was nearly dying of it.
	The yogi cured him, and he stayed with the yogi for about a year.
	And at a certain point, the yogi, the story goes, asked him, Well, young man, what do you want to do in life?
	And he said, Well, I would like to be known as a very famous learned person.
	But I want to know the material scriptures, not the spiritual scriptures, because so many people know the spiritual scriptures, but I want to know the material texts from ancient times.
	So the yogi supposedly said, well, okay, so be it.
	Well, anyway, the story goes that Subaraya Shastri came back into regular society, and he would go into a kind of trance state and start speaking Sanskrit at a normal conversational pace without any pauses.
	A language he had not studied, and it's a very difficult language at that.
	And some people would write down what he was saying.
	Well, he recited whole texts.
	And one of them is this Vimanika Shastra.
	And we at least know it's a fact that he did recite that.
	The text exists.
	It's written not only in Sanskrit, but a very archaic Sanskrit.
	It would be like writing in Old English or something like that.
	So that's one part of the story.
	Now the other part is, in India I met a man who'd been investigating Vimanika Shastra.
	He tried to translate it.
	He said the English translation that exists now is practically worthless.
	You can forget about it.
	But he said in the text there are descriptions of how to make certain metal alloys which were to be used in building the Vimanas.
	Oh boy.
	And he went to great efforts to translate them correctly.
	And he had to look up in very old obscure books to find out the meanings of some of the words.
	But he was successful.
	And he said he went to a laboratory.
	He's an engineer by profession.
	Went to a laboratory and had these alloys made in the lab according to the instructions of what you do.
	Yes.
	And in fact, alloys were produced that corresponded to the descriptions in the text.
	And not only that, they had unique properties.
	And in fact, he was trying to get patents for them.
	I'll just mention one of the properties.
	There's one alloy, which was used to make the Vimana invisible.
	Invisible?
	Yeah.
	Well, he had this made.
	It's a metal alloy, which turns out it absorbs light.
	Very strongly.
	You could shine a laser at it and practically no light reflects back.
	It's a sort of stealth technology.
	I was going to say, kind of like the F-117 technology.
	Yeah.
	So this is rather interesting.
	So, okay, the story then is you have this guy coming out of nowhere, reciting all this stuff, which sounds totally fantastic.
	And then An engineer studies it, translates it, finds formulas for alloys that really work and give metals that have unusual properties as described in the text.
	Yeah, that sends chills down my spine, actually, to listen to that.
	You might say the most obvious face value interpretation would be That there exists another dimension or level at which knowledge is being pursued, and this fellow tapped into it through the arrangement of this yogi.
	Which could be said to be psychic ability, or remote viewing, or whatever you want to put on it.
	Yeah, I guess channeling would be probably the most likely word.
	Because people do that sometimes.
	There are so many channeled books.
	A person will sit down and start talking and produce this long piece of writing which is a bit difficult to explain.
	I've always been very suspicious of channeling.
	Well, rightly so.
	You don't know where it's coming from.
	Is it the subconscious?
	Or, what is it?
	So, the interesting thing about this case, and of course it can be various things, It doesn't have to be the same thing in all cases.
	But in this case, the unusual thing was, first of all, he was speaking in Sanskrit, which wasn't a language that he normally knew.
	Second of all, it turned out to be archaic Sanskrit.
	So even if he had, you know, secretly gone to college to study Sanskrit, so as to fake people out, how did he learn all this archaic stuff?
	Utterly impossible.
	You'd have to say, well, You know, he thought, I'll really fake them out.
	So then he did a really deep study to learn all kinds of archaic language.
	Doctor, we are coming to the end of the hour.
	Where is your book available?
	Well, we have a website, sacreduniverse.com.
	The book is available there.
	And apart from that, bookstores like Borders Books, Amazon.com.
	All the usual suspects?
	Yeah.
	Bookstores, Amazon, website, we've got a link on our website to yours.
	It has really, really been a pleasure to have you here tonight.
	You've opened up my mind to all kinds of things, and I'm sure many minds out there, and I hope that you will come back and visit with us again.
	Okay, well thank you.
	Doctor, thank you and good night.
	Yep, good night.
	Good night.
	Dr. Richard L. Thompson, and that should have opened up your mind a little bit.
	Brother.
	Robots, automatic door openers.
	Computers.
	Somehow we've all done it before, and I guess we're all destined to do it again.
	i'm art bell this is coast to coast a and boring through the night
	the the
	Wanna take a ride?
	Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033. First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222. The
	wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295. And to reach out on the toll free international
	line call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
	Tomorrow night, everybody, a very serious program.
	William Thomas will be here and we're going to revisit the whole contrail thing.
	Or is it chemtrails?
	That's what you'll have to decide, I guess, tomorrow night.
	There was a rumor That those of us that went to the Super Bowl got sprayed.
	We'll ask about that tomorrow night.
	And I've got a letter from a lady you're not going to believe.
	And William Thomas has a lot of evidence he's going to lay on the table tomorrow night.
	The following night, guess who's going to be here?
	Evelyn Paglini.
	That's who.
	And we're going to talk about witchcraft.
	The dark side of witchcraft.
	I don't know why, I really don't know why I... I'm interested in that aspect of witchcraft, but I am, and believe me, Evelyn Paglini is the one to talk to about it.
	There's no question about that.
	Anybody who knows Evelyn Paglini knows she is the real McCoy.
	You'd mess with a lot of things in life, but the last person you'd mess with would be Evelyn Paglini.
	Anyway, I'm not going to really set anything up this hour.
	I wanted to do sort of one last hour of pure open lines.
	Unscreened.
	You name it.
	You figure out what you want to talk about.
	Open lines.
	So, if you've got something wild you want to lay down for us, I'm appropriating the time right now.
	By the way, after this, for those of you that get the repeat hour, we're going to do the first hour.
	Because I really want those of you who did not hear about what happened last night To hear about it.
	It was incredible.
	Hello, everybody.
	From the desert of the sea, this is Maggie.
	Do you want to take a ride?
	That's Maggie.
	The desert of the sea.
	Let me tell you just one brief little story.
	As you know, I went down last Friday night, Saturday morning, came back very early Sunday morning from Los Angeles.
	And we were driving between Baker, California.
	And Pahrump, Nevada, kind of the back roadway.
	And we came through some astounding country.
	We came through just before sunrise, and on one side we had this beautiful sunrise, on the other side we had this big old full moon, or nearly a full moon.
	And it was just hanging in the sky, and as we came by the desert of the sea, that, you know, it's been raining a lot here, and there were areas where It looked as big as Lake Michigan.
	Off to the side of the road, all you could see is water.
	Now, that water was probably not more than two or three inches deep.
	But, of course, it kind of looked like Lake Michigan, or one of the Great Lakes, I'm telling you.
	It was gigantic, and it was eerie.
	I took some photographs.
	As a matter of fact.
	So maybe I'll be able to show you.
	We're going to get those photographs developed in the next couple of days.
	And I'm not exactly sure what I was able to capture.
	It was pretty dark out there.
	And I set the camera up on top of the car.
	I was just, we were both totally awestruck with the desert in this condition.
	And so maybe we got some photographs.
	If we did, I'll get them up on the website for you.
	It's an amazing sight to see.
	But a camera lens just cannot Capture all that the eye can.
	Never will be able to, at least not in our lifetimes, I suppose.
	So maybe a little bit of it.
	You'll get a hint of a little bit of it if I get these pictures back and they work out.
	We'll see.
	Desert of the Sea to be sure.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Are you on the air?
	Well, that is a reasonable question to ask these days, but it would appear so.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Oakland, California.
	A couple of things I wanted to mention.
	One, I'm kind of worried about Danny Brinkley because, well you've probably talked to him since then, but he was on with Mike and after about five to seven minutes it was very obvious that he was completely out of it.
	Not drunk or anything, but extremely exhausted.
	Yes, he in fact was, and I talked to Danion many times since then.
	And I will have Danion back on the program, and he will be fine.
	Because I don't want a near-death experience that goes all the way with him.
	Anyway, another thing I was thinking was, with all this hoof-and-mouth stuff, what's going to happen to all the little crop circle watchers traipsing around the countryside?
	Are they going to not want them?
	And they have their feet disinfected every second when they come back to town?
	I don't know.
	I have this awful feeling.
	There was an order that went out from McDonald's to the beef industry in America yesterday.
	And I just have this terrible feeling that we should all enjoy our burgers and our steaks while we can.
	Well, I'm vegetarian, but I'm more concerned about whether it's going to mess up the crop circle season, you know?
	No, in fact, it would be my bet that we have a bigger crop circle season than ever.
	Because I think, I've always thought, that crop circles are somehow, there's some kind of message and in some way it relates to our environment.
	I've always thought that.
	And so as the environment deteriorates, I think they're going to become more complex and more common.
	Now we're getting ice circles in Canada.
	Have you seen those?
	I haven't looked, no, but I do.
	When you get a chance to get to my website, you go look.
	Because I've heard that they've had ice circles like in the mountains of Afghanistan and stuff, where nobody with a stick with a sharp end on it is going to be able to set it down on the top.
	Sure, but the way it's going in Afghanistan right now, they'd probably blow them up.
	Yeah, oh God.
	I appreciate your call.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hey, Art.
	It's great to talk to you.
	This is Roger in Portland.
	Hi, Roger.
	Hi.
	I've got a few questions for you related to the McKenna brothers.
	Sure.
	Which I'm really grateful that you've had on the air.
	It's been a great service to the world.
	Dr. Dennis McKenna was quite a find, wasn't he?
	They're both brilliant.
	Both brilliant.
	Actually, there's a related couple that are also really extraordinary.
	The Shoguns.
	I've heard a few people suggest that you Get in contact with them if possible.
	They'd be a great interview, too.
	Yes, it's always a problem of, you know, wanting somebody on and then being able to actually get hold of them to ask them on.
	Believe me, those are two different things.
	I believe it.
	I've heard that Alexander Shulkin actually has a website where he answers questions directly.
	I'll try and pass that URL on to you.
	That would help.
	That would really help.
	I'm really surprised, too, with all the talk about DMT.
	No one mentioned the similarities between the effects of DMT and some of the really similar effects of OOB experiences.
	Well, we did.
	We talked about that with Dr. McKenna quite extensively.
	I don't recall him talking about the audible effects, etc.
	I'll have to listen to it again.
	Yeah, go back over it.
	We did cover that.
	Great, great.
	And any idea when the archives of your interviews with parents might be available?
	Well, the archives are a grand question that has not been answered yet.
	The years of archives of programs.
	Once you start down that path, you have a lot of work to do.
	We separated from the company that held the archives, and we have all the tapes and all the programs, but it's a matter of Thousands upon thousands of hours of re-archiving to get them back up there, so we're trying to figure it all out.
	Oh, great.
	Well, I hope you figure it out soon.
	All right.
	And one last question.
	Yes?
	Have you ever considered having Phil Hendry on your show?
	I met Phil the other day at the R&R Talk convention, and we had a really good talk.
	I really like Phil.
	I think he's an incredibly talented person.
	Oh, that's for sure.
	Yeah, I'd love to have him on.
	That's actually a pretty good idea.
	I wonder what I would do with Phil, though.
	I wonder how I'd handle him.
	Yeah, what he'd do to me is a good question.
	He does the best imitation of me of anybody presently on the air.
	He's brilliant.
	And a lot of people think I hate it.
	I don't.
	I love it.
	He does a great job.
	That's a great compliment.
	All right, thank you.
	All right, thank you, Art.
	Take care.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	This is Nick of Marbister.
	Hi, Nick.
	And I want to mention a metal alloy.
	It's actually a carbon alloy that could revolutionize the world from quietly entering our products.
	And it is not as much publicized as you would think it would be.
	And I want to bring it to his words because I mentioned that super alloy that was in the Shasta boat.
	Yes.
	What alloy are you talking about?
	It's the nanotubes.
	It's carbon nanotubes.
	It's harder, more heat resistant, more dense than any other known material known to man.
	It's getting into our light bulbs, into our computer displays.
	It's got current capacities like some of those cyclotrons and so on.
	Who knows if this will introduce quantum mechanical effects into computing and do some pretty exotic stuff in time.
	It's just started.
	The first products are just now coming out in Japan and Korea.
	It's been in the science magazines like Science Today and so on.
	on you see verbs about it once in a while.
	It says that the light bulbs last for many thousands of hours and it's based on carbon.
	It's the hardest substance known to man and also can conduct hundreds of times more heat than regular systems.
	So the most fascinating thing is that it eliminates copper wiring.
	You're getting the first start of electronic effect that's based on Light or quantum mechanical effects rather than actual conduction.
	It's actually parts of our transistors are already using the effect.
	It's not being publicized as so-called transistors, but they're really a totally new principle.
	It emits pure electrons just like lasers emit light.
	Who's doing most of the work with it now?
	The Japanese?
	Stanford is doing a lot of the work.
	George Institute of Technology.
	Samsung is putting out products.
	Very similar to the way GE put out incandescent lights, you know, 75 years ago.
	So this has no relationship to, for example, the Philips bulbs that last thousands of hours?
	I don't believe so.
	That's not mentioned in this.
	Separate technology, all right.
	This has been going on since 1995.
	Rice University did the initial research, but now they're getting delivery systems, like at Harvard and Stanford, to where they can actually embed this in conventional circuitry and Probably in time, even.
	A lot of that's going to fall by the wayside.
	You're going to see the quantum computer come out of this, I think.
	May well be.
	I appreciate the call, sir.
	You may also see, I suppose, the chip they're now talking about.
	Some call it the Soul Catcher chip.
	Others call it something else.
	But it would be implanted in you, and it would have enough computing power and storage capability so that At the beginning of your life, it would be implanted, it would register like a video recorder, only better with sight, sounds, feelings, emotions.
	It would record your entire life so that somebody could sit down and play your life back and feel what you felt, experience what you experienced, feel the emotion that you felt, the joy, the sorrow, the passion, Everything that you felt, and see everything that you saw.
	Your life could virtually be sold.
	A commodity.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	I'm on the air?
	Yes, you are.
	Oh, wow.
	Probably.
	Hi!
	This is I, right?
	Yes.
	Are you familiar with Daniel Quinn?
	Daniel Quinn.
	He's an author.
	First of all, turn your radio off for this.
	Sorry, hold on.
	Daniel Quinn, let me think.
	No, I don't think I know that name.
	So we'll have to ask her what she knows about Daniel.
	So what do you know about Daniel Quinn?
	Daniel Quinn is an author.
	Yes.
	Ishmael, Stories B, Providence?
	Yes.
	I don't know if you've ever had him on.
	No.
	I would love to suggest him to you.
	I have not had him on.
	I believe he's fairly well known, and it's considered a fictional book, but Ishmael is.
	But his theories are amazing.
	Well, there are many works that are Um, that are said to be fiction for various protections.
	I know all about that.
	Exactly.
	I know all about that.
	Believe me.
	I'm also wondering, um, considering that Bush is in office, maybe somebody who, I don't know who the author is, but the Illuminatus Trilogy?
	Are you familiar with that?
	Uh, say it again?
	The Illuminatus Trilogy?
	No.
	Okay, well.
	Nope.
	Anyhow, um, either of those authors I would love to hear.
	All right, well, I'll see what I can do.
	The best thing you can do, if you want an author on, and I'll tell you and I'll tell everybody else, is to give me a way to contact them.
	In other words, just don't write to me and say, oh, please have so-and-so on.
	I need some kind of lead.
	Sometimes it can be a website.
	Sometimes it can be a, you know, a company that publishes a book.
	It can be many ways, but give me, if you're able, some kind of lead.
	On the international line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	How are you, Alex?
	I'm just fine.
	Where are you?
	I'm calling from Melbourne, Australia.
	Melbourne.
	All right.
	Glad to have you.
	What's up?
	Or down, in your case.
	Well, Matt, I just thought I'd call and congratulate you on the show.
	I've been listening to you for a very long time.
	And basically, I wanted to give you a little bit of weather news for your super storm.
	More weather news.
	All right.
	Yes, well, down in Western Australia we've had a drought for about 13 months.
	Oh yes, I've been hearing about it.
	Yes, according to the CSIRO down here in Australia, they reckon that Melbourne has had the hottest summer ever on record.
	On record?
	Well, there's a lot of that going on.
	We're having records made all the time now in almost every category of weather that you can name, so I'm not surprised that Australia is feeling it too.
	Well, the CSIRO are saying that the temperature has gone up by about 2 degrees.
	An average of 2?
	That's right.
	And what was the hottest day, do you recall?
	About 36.5.
	Which translates to what Fahrenheit?
	To be honest with you, I wouldn't have a clue.
	I don't have a clue either.
	We thought in Celsius, not Fahrenheit.
	I know, I know, I understand.
	And I really should know.
	I have a conversion chart somewhere, but not in front of me.
	So that shows to go you.
	Here we are.
	We're all glued to Fahrenheit here, and you all are glued to Celsius there.
	And we both have charts in front of us, but hot.
	Yeah, they're very hot.
	And in actual fact, it's still hot now down here in Victoria, which is sort of strange, because this time of year, it should be cooling down.
	I'm afraid we're all going to see a lot more violent weather.
	With the heat, both in the ocean and in the air, increasing, that's a lot of energy.
	You might think of a couple of degrees, two or three degrees, as not much, but maybe that's a lot of energy when you're talking about storms forming.
	Well, CSIRO was saying that they're predicting that by the year 2050, it'll go up another degree.
	So, I think we're in a lot of trouble.
	I do, too.
	I do, too.
	Thank you very much, my friend.
	That's from down under, Australia.
	If you want to give us a call on the international line, wherever you are, when I have a guest on, let me give you a little clue.
	When I have a guest on, I'm using the international line for the guests, so international callers can't get through.
	But when we're in open lines, you can get through.
	So wherever you are in the world, give it a shot.
	The number is 800-893-0903.
	That's 800-893-0903.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	How are you doing?
	I'm doing alright.
	Where are you?
	Actually, I'm not sure if I called the right number, but no big deal.
	I'm calling from Oshawa, Ontario, Canada.
	Well, are you a first time caller to the program?
	I sure am.
	Okay, well, you've got the right number.
	Basically, I just had a little bit of a question for you about the Egyptians and the mathematics skills they had.
	Yes.
	If you were to stand at one point and say somebody was to stand, say, a mile away and the sun was above you, and you were to time how long it took the sun to get from directly above you to directly above somebody else, and then keep on timing it until the sun came all the way back around the world, you would have a basic time of how long it took the sun to get around the world.
	Now, if you were to divide that By how long it took the Sun to travel one mile on Earth, wouldn't you basically be able to tell how many miles around the Earth is in diameter?
	I don't think they had concepts, though, of around, then.
	I mean, apparently they did, if you heard our guest.
	Yeah.
	I just mean, hypothetically, you would, like, because people are always trying to think of, you know, basic mathematics skills are pretty basic, but rather than trying to think of some huge scientific technological way to use to measure the Earth, Something simple like that, maybe?
	I don't know.
	I just thought I'd share it with you.
	Well, I appreciate you sharing it with me, and I'll sit here and think about it.
	I just don't think people had the concept, or at least we all believed, that people didn't even have an inkling of the fact that things were round and circling each other.
	It was all, at that point, supposedly, in one version of history, Everything was egocentric.
	I mean, we were everything, and everything revolved around us.
	At least that's the way it was supposed to be.
	Now, after listening to Dr. Thompson tonight, it's quite clear that they knew things back then that we're just figuring out in recent history now.
	How did they know?
	that's the question this is close to close and that will be right back with
	more open lines don't touch that dot.
	No, no, no, no, no.
	No, no, no, no, no.
	doing alright.
	A little driving on a Saturday night.
	Come walk with me.
	Runnin' down the dead way Jenny was sweet
	She always smiled for the people she'd meet On troubled strides
	She had another way of makin' it right Wanna take a ride?
	Wanna take a ride?
	Wanna take a ride?
	Call ArcBell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
	to the Rockies 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	And to call out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them
	dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
	Some young lady heard this song and it's driving her absolute bananas and she would keep sending me emails saying, what is it?
	What is it?
	What is it?
	Jimmy was sweet.
	What is it?
	Name of that song, have to have it.
	I understand that happens.
	It's called Driver's Seat.
	Good morning everybody, I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM Back in a Flash.
	Back we go to open lines.
	Anything you want to talk about, fair game.
	Wild card line, you are on the air.
	Hey there!
	This is L.D.
	in Omaha, KFAB 1110, the superstation, 50,000 watts, coming at you.
	It does that, that's the way to do a promo, and you're on a cell phone too, aren't you?
	Yeah, I'm sorry, it's just technology, you know.
	It's alright.
	Hey, your guest is great tonight, and the theory I kind of wanted to run by him, I'll run by you, is the Tower of Babel, which occurred around the same time as the flood, Supposedly at that time, everyone spoke the same language, which would go to say we probably could share a lot of technology at that time.
	And then all of a sudden, God said, hey, this isn't going to happen anymore, and everybody's going to have their own little language.
	Which I would rate it today as if somebody said, OK, we're not going to have the World Wide Web anymore.
	We're going to take it away.
	And China's going to have their web.
	We're going to have our web.
	Mexico's going to have their web.
	And so, we wouldn't be able to share all the information and technology that we have right now.
	Well, you wouldn't have to eliminate a lot.
	All you'd have to do is take the satellites, the web, and the cell phones, and we're done.
	Exactly.
	All right, sir.
	Thank you very much.
	Yes, Omaha.
	Big radio station in Omaha.
	Reaches across a lot of the country.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, this morning.
	I wonder if you've been... if you've ever heard of the... Turn your radio off, please.
	Okay.
	I don't know if you've ever heard of the theory that's been going around about the Earth at some point in time, prehistory, was covered with a layer of water that basically was a reflection of the sun's rays.
	Well, yeah, of course.
	I mean, there was a great flood, if that's what you're talking about.
	It was covered with water.
	And basically what that did was, through the refraction of the sunlight, gave a temperate climate throughout the entirety of the Earth.
	Yes, it would do that.
	Basically, the theory is that we just seem to be getting some bearing of being true to some of the geological surveys being done.
	Well, maybe we're headed right back there.
	It's a great possibility that we are, but you've not got a doctorate yet, honorary doctorate yet, Art?
	Actually, I do, but I mean, they're honorary, so... Yeah, well, this is great.
	We've had a great lineup this week.
	It's just a great topic.
	Maybe someday you can get someone on and maybe explain a little bit more in depth about that theory of the Earth.
	And basically, I believe that a lot of the technology that we can't find here on Earth ground are basically under the ocean at depths that are, basically we can't get exploration on it.
	Well, the way it's going right now with Earth women, I figure the flood's coming.
	So, yeah, hang in there.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Well, this is Dave the Economist in Las Vegas.
	I was just calling to say, you know, Mr. Bush with his new plan of not wanting to restrict the emissions from fossil fuels, that could be, you know, really the nail that seals all our coffins with this greenhouse effect.
	Could be.
	I mean, he's going to be spewing... I mean, we know we've got an oil guy there, right?
	Oh, sure.
	And we know the ozone holes are getting bigger and bigger, letting in radiation.
	They say that by 2010, that there's going to be 50,000 people dead in Australia from being burned to death from radiation from these ozone holes.
	And look at Bush, he's sitting there just ripping them wider.
	I know, but look, sure I know, you've got an oil guy there.
	What's he going to do?
	Is he going to start peddling solar panels and wind generators?
	Ocean wave generated power?
	Is he going to start working on hydrogen fuel cells?
	Or is he going to sell oil?
	Duh.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Tim from Michigan.
	Hello, Tim from Michigan.
	How you doing?
	Pretty good, pretty good.
	I had a few questions concerning remote viewing.
	Has anyone remote viewed Stonehenge?
	Not to my knowledge, but that's a good target.
	Okay.
	And, well, your guest is gone now.
	I was hoping to get through.
	I'm actually shocked that I got through.
	How accurate do you think remote viewing is?
	Well, I think he made a pretty good case that that is one of the greatest possibilities for communication.
	When communication and transportation wouldn't seem possible back then.
	So, how accurate is it?
	Well, you heard him describe, I don't know if you call it remote viewing or if you call it channeling or whatever, but if you speak technical text in another language, you've got to figure it's pretty accurate.
	Yeah.
	Right?
	Yeah, it's interesting.
	It is.
	Well, God, so many questions in a little time.
	I can't think of anything else to talk about.
	I'm just shocked that I actually got through.
	I understand.
	Alright, well, I'll tell you, a good thing to do when you think you might get through is just make a little, you know, two or three notes on a piece of paper and so when you get through you're not blown away and you can remember what you wanted to say.
	How close do you think we are to Armageddon?
	In your personal feelings, if you will.
	How close do you think we are to the edge?
	Real close.
	You wanted my opinion, you just got it real close.
	I think the signs are everywhere.
	Does that frighten you, or are you okay with that?
	I'm okay with that.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	What can I do to change it?
	Well, that's true.
	Come to terms, change the things that you can change, and those you cannot, you've got to come to terms with.
	Of all the people that you've interviewed in the past, who stands out in your mind as, I won't say the most intelligent, but the most creative, maybe, in our time?
	That's probably a difficult question to pin down.
	Terrence McKenna.
	Terrence McKenna, interesting.
	All right.
	You asked for a name, and so I just threw one out for you.
	All right.
	OK, thank you.
	OK, thank you.
	And take care.
	That just came rolling off my lips.
	I don't know.
	There are many.
	I have interviewed now, I think, thousands of people.
	So that was just a recent one that came to mind.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Morning, Art.
	Good morning.
	How are things going?
	Just fine.
	That was amazing the other night, the old cutoff.
	You can't even calculate how amazing the old cutoff was.
	Did you hear my description in the first hour?
	I did.
	That's too much coincidence for me.
	It is.
	It's synchronicity.
	Maybe that's what made me say Terrence.
	Man, what a night, huh?
	Yes, sir.
	I can't believe, since you've been back on, you've just been going full bore with amazing guests.
	I don't know any other speed.
	Oh, by the way, this has been in Pocatello.
	Pocatello, Idaho, yes sir.
	Yes.
	I was listening when you had the people on doing the ghost pics, the recording, the voices.
	They're going to be on again soon, by the way, with a whole new set of voices.
	Wow.
	Yep.
	My friend, I called in that night as well.
	I told you about my friend who sees spirits.
	Well, I told him about the show and so he decided to take a tape recorder to where he lived.
	His parents' house is where the hauntings have taken place, or some of them have.
	And?
	He took a tape recorder and decided to record while he was sleeping there.
	He was doing some teaching at the high school in the town and he napped during the day at his parents' place and he recorded about an hour, hour and a half of Of nothingness.
	And then you can hear him get restless and start breathing heavy like something was disturbing him.
	Right.
	And then immediately afterwards, three screams in a row that were louder than his breathing.
	Screams?
	Screams.
	He said he listened to it on the way home.
	I listened to it too and it gave me chills, but he was listening to it on his drive home.
	And he said he had to turn the tape off because it scared him so bad.
	I would like to get a copy of that.
	I've thought about putting it in either MP3 or I could put it in WAV format, but I would be willing to send it to you.
	You really ought to talk to him.
	He's had so many amazing, amazing visitations.
	I would be more than happy to talk to him.
	Well, I'll send you an email.
	All right.
	And I'll attach the file.
	All right, please do.
	Thank you.
	Yes, electronic voice phenomena is what that man is talking about.
	And I don't think I'd like that if I set a recorder going with an empty tape.
	That's one of the criteria.
	And you just record.
	Now, my guests took this to a cemetery and would frequently get incredible things on tape.
	But to imagine putting it at your bedside, to hear yourself getting restless and beginning to make some sounds, and then to hear screams that came not from you, But from the other side, hmm... I don't know about that one.
	Listen, I just took kind of an interesting photograph, and I haven't done this in, uh, I bet it's been a year.
	But people have been asking, what happened to your wildcat?
	Your, uh... And boy, we do have a wildcat here.
	A feral cat.
	Named Comet.
	Well, I just took a picture of Comet on my webcam.
	So if you want to see what Comet looks like now, a year later, take a look.
	See, it's on my webcam right now.
	What's to the Rockies?
	You're on the air.
	Hi.
	All right.
	All right.
	Yes, sir.
	How's it going?
	Fine.
	Nice to have you back.
	This is James in California near Yosemite.
	Yes, sir.
	I've got something to tell you about that's liable to blow your mind pretty well.
	Well, I've got a pretty blown mind, but go ahead.
	Now this is regarding, let me tell you what it's about before I start to explain it so you'll know where I'm going.
	It's about your OBE.
	Now your, Dennis McKenna told you the other night about the pineal gland producing DMT.
	Right?
	Yes.
	And now the pineal gland metabolizes melatonin is the first step.
	Now did you hear all of what he said about the production of DMT for example?
	The spike in the fetus on the 49th day?
	Yes.
	Now, that's Rick Strassman out of DMT, the Spirit Molecule book.
	Okay.
	Now, there's other things, too, that cause it.
	Now, it spikes, yes, at 49 days, but it also continues to produce in massive amounts even after you're born.
	Right.
	Now, which means that when babies come out of the womb, they are fully psychedelic.
	This has been proven, and Dennis started to tell you about Jace Calloway.
	Well, think of the trip they just made.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	And Dennis told you about Jace Calloway that was doing tests on blood levels and spiking, but what he didn't tell you is that Jace Calloway tested people that were in institutions dying.
	And as they were getting ready to die, they were doing blood tests on them, and their levels of DMT spiked.
	Again.
	Precisely.
	Well, Dr. McKenna covered that.
	He said that research on NDEs has confirmed people near death indeed spike DMT levels.
	Uh-huh.
	Now, Jace Calloway, who he was talking about, did research for almost 10 years on this at the Keopal Institute in Finland.
	Now there's other things that cause your pineal gland to do spikes.
	And one of the things is stress.
	One of the things is sleep deprivation or change in sleep habits.
	Right.
	When you were on the plane and you flew over there and then you got out and you said when you were describing your OBE that your sleep cycle was all messed up.
	Absolutely.
	And all these things happen.
	I'll give you a better one.
	Yeah.
	When I was on the island of Okinawa.
	I spent 10 years there, and I worked in radio for the only commercial broadcast rock and roll station in the Far East.
	The only one that ever existed, in fact.
	And I did some pretty stupid stuff.
	I was young.
	One of the stupid things I did was I broke a world record.
	I stayed up and stayed on the air for 116 hours and 15 minutes.
	That record has long since been shattered.
	Oh, wow.
	About three quarters of the way through that experience, I moved into a completely different world.
	I began to hallucinate, and I was just using like frozen cans of orange juice up against my carotid artery to stay awake, and I had a doctor in attendance.
	He stopped me from drinking coffee because of my heartbeat.
	But I began to see things, sir, and I moved into an entirely different world.
	So there's a great case of sleep deprivation for you.
	Yeah, well, see, even though that happened years and years before, that was setting you up, because what it was doing was reopening and reawakening your pineal gland.
	And there's people that are in Norway right now, the Atmanodan Institute, that are doing light deprivation and light isolation for 14 days, which reactivates the pineal gland.
	Because there's a lot of things that happen in life that cause your pineal gland to atrophy, shut down, and actually calcify.
	In fact, I just got an email, and I haven't had a chance to read through it completely yet, from the bluehoney.org webmaster that is talking about how, when you take fluoride into your body, that it's attracted by the pineal gland.
	It soaks it up, for some strange reason, and causes it to calcify.
	Which is really weird and goes into all the conspiracy theory about... They're killing our DMT, polluting our vital bodily fluids.
	Yeah, the pollution of DMT and our pineal gland.
	I know, but our teeth are cool, though.
	Yeah, right.
	So I thought you'd like that, because I think your OBE is a direct result of a DMT experience.
	That could easily be true, but it was all natural.
	Absolutely.
	Alright, my friend, thank you.
	Thank you.
	Fascinating.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Yeah, I'm Steven Phoenix.
	Let me step away from my truck.
	Detailing my camera.
	A little bit noisy.
	Okay, cell phone, another cell phone.
	Well, we all have to go cell phone for that EMP, you know?
	They go digital and the fiber optics so that EMP won't affect communications for the country.
	All right.
	Anyway, I was wondering, the other night you had Coast to Coast about a week, two weeks ago.
	And you held open a line for ghosts that are still alive?
	Yes.
	I fell asleep.
	I was on the road all day and I sat down to listen to it and I fell asleep.
	Did you get much response on that?
	I did get some, yes.
	It's fascinating.
	A ghost seems to be, or at least one possibility of a ghost is that it's a sort of a repetitive loop tape of something that somebody did when they were alive.
	Well, it also seems to be true that people who are still alive and have left places where they were for a very long time leave the same repetitive kind of an expectation something or another behind so that's something I had never even occurred to me to investigate before but once you open it up all of a sudden you've got people coming forward saying oh yes I experienced that and the other thing I was wondering also is
	The near-death experiences you were just talking about with the other caller?
	Yes.
	There was a Russian study you're aware of where they did the weight testing.
	Why can't they get together with hospice and, you know, consent from the dying patients?
	To do a modern study?
	and do a modern study with all of the various radiation and rays of light photography and
	the weight and the Karelian photography and everything that's down there.
	The answer is because we live in, you would think, a very scientifically forward age,
	but actually, sir, in a lot of ways, we've taken a giant step in reverse.
	We cannot politically do that kind of thing.
	Any institute that would try and do a study of that nature today would be run out of town
	on a political rail, I guarantee.
	That's what I'm saying.
	Maybe an independent could do it through hospice.
	Maybe.
	Maybe.
	I appreciate your call.
	We're way out of time.
	I've got to go.
	We'll be back tomorrow night.
	It's going to be a fascinating show.
	I'm Mark Bell.

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