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March 12, 2001 - Art Bell

02:45:01

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - David Sereda, James Oberg - The Case for NASA's UFOs

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01:01:31

david sereda

55:47

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest.
		I bid you all good evening and or good morning, wherever you may be across this great land of ours, from the island of Guam in the West, which now, by the way, has decided to take all five hours of the program.
		Thank you very much, Guam.
		Eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north all the way to the Poland worldwide on the old internet.
		This is Coast to Coast AM, and I'm Mark Bell.
		And boy, have we got a program for you this morning.
		First of all, let me welcome WRAY in Princeton, Indiana, 1450 on the dial in Princeton, Indiana.
		Welcome to the program.
		As the affiliates continue to accumulate, headed rapidly down, of course, toward 500 affiliates.
		On the way.
		Now, in the next hour, we're going to have David Sarita here, who has written a book called Evidence 2001, The Case for NASA's UFOs.
		And this may be really, really interesting because James Oberg, who is a mission specialist and self-described debunker, may want to join the show as we proceed along in the morning.
		Now, of course, we've got new photographs for you.
		David brings new photographs, which he will explain, which are on the website.
		And all of that comes up in the next hour.
		I want to thank, as you know, Friday night, Saturday morning, I was gone, summoned down to Marina Del Rey, California, Los Angeles, and the Radio and Records Talk Convention.
		And anybody who was anybody was there.
		At least it certainly seemed that way.
		I mean, all the giants of the industry were there.
		It was pretty awesome, actually.
		And a lot happened at Marina Del Rey that I want to tell you about.
		But you know me.
		Normally I will go down with a camera, and I did take one.
		Unfortunately, everybody else was taking photographs of me and of a lot of people around me, and so I never got to take photographs.
		Usually, I'm the guy with a camera to come back and give you a record of what went on, and I will give you a record.
		But I need to appeal to those who were at the R ⁇ R convention and took pictures to send them to me so I can put them on the website.
		I know a million of you, I mean, I was seeing orbs, you know, floating all over the place.
		My eyes were just emasculated by flash bulbs.
		So I know there's a lot of photographs out there, and if some of you who took them would be kind enough to email them to me at artbell at mindspring.com, I will turn around JPEG's preferable.
		I will turn around and put them on the website for all to see.
		And there was something very special that occurred that I think you're all going to get a big kick out of at that talk convention.
		Really special.
		You're going to just laugh and laugh when you see it.
		But I don't want to talk about it until I get photographs to back it up.
		So anybody who was at the convention, thank you for being there.
		Thank you for the wonderful reception that I had.
		It was really an amazing, the whole session was amazing.
		But I want to get some of the photographs.
		I've got to get some of the photographs.
		Now, before I do anything else, I must inform you, I have received the best ghost photographs in all my years of collecting ghost photographs, and we've got probably one of the best collections, I think, anywhere on the web of ghost photographs.
		This one is on top.
		Listen carefully.
		Dear Mr. Bell, I have attached a picture that absolutely chilled me to the bone.
		Last summer, I went on a trip to Montreal with my fiancé.
		We shot a lot of photos, but I recently found a roll of film that was not developed.
		You know, that happens to me all the time on vacations.
		I'll develop them all, but there's one that, you know, you just about shoot up and you leave in the camera and you don't develop it, or you pull it out and put it in one of those little containers and develop it later.
		Anyway, he goes on, after getting the pictures from the developer, I nearly passed out from horror when I viewed this photo.
		In it, you can see the outline in the middle ground of what appears to be a glowing adult male standing in the middle of the sidewalk.
		What makes this picture so creepy is that we had been warned by a cab driver about strange sightings in the area.
		We probed him for information, but he immediately changed the subject and refused to say any more about it.
		Having done a little research on my own, in other words, asking around a local tavern, I learned that a 31-year-old man had recently hanged himself in one of the adjacent apartment buildings.
		I never believed in the supernatural before this.
		It has changed my belief system forever.
		By sharing this with others, perhaps some good may come of this, although I do not know.
		Thank you for your time.
		Bill Doyle of Boston, Massachusetts.
		Bill, there are two things we would love to have from you.
		One is a quick email with your phone number, because I'll call you if you will send it to me.
		Number two, we would like to have a copy from, in other words, if you would be so kind as to take your negative and go get another copy.
		Do not send me the original.
		That's how things get lost.
		But I would like to have another copy so I could do a very high-res scan of this photograph.
		Ladies and gentlemen, this is the damnedest photograph you've ever seen.
	Now, you can download it.
	It's quite good.
	It is fairly high-resolution as is, and you can zoom in on it.
	And as you do, well, all I can tell you is I have never before had a photograph that was quite so clearly a human, well, what might have been previously a human form.
	And it's sort of halfway between invisible and visible.
	I have looked at this from every angle.
	Now I know I'm casting this forth into the sea of pixel people, which is fine.
	Go take a look.
	Do your best or worst.
	But folks, this is a half-formed entity, I guess.
	Half obviously on its way toward forming into a solid shape.
	Or, perhaps, how would I know, maybe it was solid and it was dematerializing.
	That's the way to put it, I guess.
	It's halfway in between.
	You can actually see.
	You can see very clearly, see an arm, part of the upper body in a semi-solid form.
	The entire form is there, but obviously it's either disappearing or appearing.
	He caught it exactly in the middle.
	It's the damnedest picture I've ever seen in my whole life.
	And of course, it falls right into the category of I don't know how we usually seem to get these ghost photographs.
	Somebody in this case who hanged himself.
	But if this one doesn't do it for you, nothing ever will.
	It's on my website right now.
	And this is why I go through my email.
	I get, on average, about 1,500.
	I say again, 1,500 emails a day.
	But I go through all of them.
	I read all of them.
	Obviously, they don't all get answered, but I've got to do that.
	It's the only way you can do this program and understand what's important and what's not.
	There's just no way to have somebody else doing it for me.
	So it takes up the better part of my day, actually.
	But this is the benefit that you reap from it.
	Go to my website now, www.artbell.com.
	Just hold your cursor over what's new, and there, right at the top, will be new Montreal ghost photo.
	And I'm telling you, folks, you have never, ever seen anything like this.
	This is the best ghost photograph ever taken.
	Now, for some people, with regard to proof of the afterlife, there will never be enough proof until that moment arrives for them.
	But boy, this comes pretty close.
	This really is something.
	This really is something.
	Best ghost photograph I've ever seen.
	I bet we've got, I don't know how many we've got up there.
	I bet we've got 100 up there.
	And I would say that in email, I reject probably 99 out of 100.
	So of the ones that I send forth to Keith to put on the website, maybe one out of 100.
	And this one is the best of them all.
	Have a look.
	Tear it apart.
	Do your best.
	I have.
	I think it's absolutely legit.
	And Mr. Doyle, if you would like to email me quickly with a phone number, I could have you on before the hour is out.
	He may or may not be listening this night.
	Let's quickly look at the headlines.
	Do you see the stock market today?
	Oh, my God.
	The world markets are following, but the NASDAQ dropped another $129.4 down below 2,000 to 1923.
	The index is now off nearly 62% from the all-time high of 5,048.
	The Dow fell precipitously, particularly in the last hour of trading, 436.37 points, and now is at 10,208.25, 10,208.25.
	Getting a little scary, huh?
	Speaking of scary, North Korea has abruptly called off cabinet-level talks with South Korea that were scheduled to begin on Tuesday.
	South Korean government said North Korea, Korean Chief Delegate John Kun-Jin, did not give any reason for the cancellation of the talks.
	That's kind of ominous.
	We've had our eye on Korea for a long time.
	You heard, I'm sure, U.S. Navy warplane mistakenly bombed soldiers during a training flight Monday in Kuwait.
	Dropped a 500-pound bomb, was an F-A-18, dropped a 500-pound bomb by mistake.
	And I don't know what you say about that.
	God, this ghost photograph is good.
	This really, really is an incredible ghost photograph.
	You've got to go see that.
	Crawl, walk, run to your computer, and go check this out.
	The Montreal Ghost Photograph.
	Explain this one to me.
	Now, continuing with something that is simply not being covered in the mainstream media, here is yet another report.
	This one March 8th, issued March 8th.
	UK News.
	Why can't I get reports on this from American media?
	It's about the space fungus on board.
	Again, this is really being heavily covered in the rest of the world.
	I'm not saying the U.S. press doesn't cover it, but boy, there has sure has not been much.
	They talk about Mir coming back, but they don't talk about this.
	In the latest twist of the long saga of the Mir space station, biologists are worried about a new strain of fungus which Mir is going to bring back or may bring back to Earth when it splashes down this month.
	Russian NTV television interviewed Yuri Karish, a space expert who thinks the microorganisms which have now spent 15 years quietly mutating in their own isolated environment on Mir could be a real problem.
	Quote, I don't want to be a pessimist, but the problem is there, and it is a serious one.
	The mutant fungi do exist, and in the future they could do serious damage to humanity.
	We can only draw the final conclusions after we have completed our research, he said.
	Over the years, visitors to Mir have consistently said the biggest impression on reaching the space station was the smell.
	And they have found various types of fungus growing behind panels and in air conditioning units.
	Some of them corrode metal work or give off toxic fumes.
	But it is how they will develop when they reach Earth that is worrying the experts.
	That's right, when they get back down here.
	Mir is likely to splash down in waters which are New Zealand's responsibility.
	Prime Minister Helen Clark has reassured the nation there was no radiation or biological hazard on board, but that was before the latest developments about the mutant fungi in effect an unknown form of life whose likely impact is simply unknown.
	Scientists have been worried about contamination from space before quarantine was a routine precaution for early astronauts.
	Neil Armstrong, first man on the moon, had to fill in an agriculture, customs, immigration, and public health declaration on his return to the U.S. Did he really?
	I didn't know that.
	Anyway, the bottom line here is something is growing and has been growing for a long time now on the Mir space station, and it's on its way back.
	Now, it may well be that the space station will come down and nothing untoward will occur right away.
	You see, nothing is going to happen right away with whatever reaches the ground and plunges into the ocean, they hope.
	But a fungus, particularly a mutant fungus, as we all know, having seen all the movies, right, does not develop right away.
	So it's not one of those instant things.
	But, and it's a big but, if you've got a fungus that can develop and thrive in space and eat metal and glass and stuff like that, surviving on nothing more than the nutrition given off, they say, by the human body, you know, little flakes of skin or little whatevers that are enough protein for it to survive.
	Imagine what such a fungus would do when it reaches a nutrient-rich environment like good old Earth.
	So, if something crawls ashore and begins eating New Zealanders, Aussies, or even Canadians, tasty Canadians, these things never happen in America, right?
	We'll just have to wait and see.
	But actually, you know, much as I'm joking about this, this is very serious, potentially very serious.
	And the news is hardly saying a word about it.
	Certainly not the U.S. News, the History Channel aired the supposed true story of the Philadelphia experiment.
	I've got it on tape.
unidentified		I have not yet seen it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I will reserve comment until I see it, but it is my understanding that it probably tries to debunk most of what is said by many about it.
		Now, a lot of people have said, you know, if these crop circles that Linda Moulton Howe and others have reported on are really anything at all, well, I guess I'd better hold that.
		We've got a little bit of business we've got to do right now before I get so worked up about things that I forget.
		So if I don't do it, I'll have two breaks next half hour.
		Let's do our break right now, and I'll tell you about some ice rings.
		All right, well, I just barely got that in, didn't I?
		Ottawa, Canada, mysterious ice rings in Ontario and Quebec are baffling investigators, tracking the appearance of strange circles in ponds and fields all across Canada.
		Cold, hard facts about the frozen phenomena are scarce indeed, making it too early to tell if the rings are related to their better-known cousins, the crop circles, that continue to turn up in farmers' fields worldwide.
		Two rural ice ring cases are among 11 sightings now described in the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network's annual summary report for 2000.
		The round ice formations have been documented only rarely in Canada, the U.S., Germany, and Russia.
		According to Paul Anderson, the network's Vancouver-based director, we're lucky if we hear of one.
		Well, early last December, a woman in the eastern Ontario town of Delta awoke to find an ice ring almost five meters in diameter on the pond behind the family barn.
		She swore up and down that it wasn't there the night before.
		Said the ice was too thin to walk on, making a hoax unlikely.
		Oh, now that's interesting.
		So it was too thin to walk on.
		So if somebody had been out there hoaxing it, they would Have gone through the ice, plunged into the icy water, and probably would have been a Darwin Award nominee.
		But it could not have been a hoax because the ice was too thin.
		And for years, I have said, along with a lot of others, if crop circles are real, then we should find snow circles, ice circles, dirt circles.
		And by God, we've been getting dirt circles and ice circles.
		I had a photograph of a circle in Southern California in a sort of a slightly grassy but mostly dirt area.
		There was no question about what it was.
		And now, all across Canada with increasing frequency, increasing frequency.
		Remember how they began in Europe as simple circles and then slowly increased in complexity as though they were trying to send some kind of a message, right?
		Well, now we've got the simple ones in ice all across Canada.
		They're trying to send a message.
		I wonder what it might be.
		Whatever else you do, check out that ghost photo on my website right now.
unidentified		is the best.
		If I bat a far off my teeth, the smell of the touch, the something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of the touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an ocean used deep in the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
		July the meadow, hear the grass sing, I always sing, in our memories born, and the youthful, the cup.
		Oh, my God.
		Want to take a ride?
		Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach ART at area code 775-727-1222.
		Or call the wildcard line at 775-727-1295.
		To talk with ART on the Toll-Free International line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We actually have a photograph of a being caught in mid-materialization or dematerialization.
		I'd have no way of knowing, of course, but this being is half there and half not there.
		Tonya, this is the best ghost photograph ever sent to me by anybody.
		It takes its place at the top of all of them.
		If you go to my website, www.artbell.com, and you click on what's new, you'll see Montreal Ghost Photograph.
		Check it out.
		Have fun with it, pixel people.
		Because it's really, really a freaky good one.
		All right, we're going to take care of business right away so I don't forget it, and then we'll get underway with open lines coming up next.
		All right, I've got so much more, but I want to get some calls in.
		Oh, by the way, new words for the 2001 dictionary.
		How about this one?
		I've got a bunch of them.
		Osmosis.
		Osmosis.
		The process by which some people seem to absorb success and advancement by kissing up to the boss.
		Osmosis.
unidentified		Osmosis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
		Hello.
		Going once.
		Going twice.
		Go on.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello, Wart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, turn your radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn it off.
unidentified		Yes, turning it off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good for you.
unidentified		I can't believe I got through.
		This is Buddy listening to you in St. Louis on 97.1 FM.
		Glad to have you back, Art.
		Glad to have Coast New Coast back on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's kind of fun to listen on FM, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The quality is mwah.
unidentified		I certainly didn't think that the previous station here, the carriage, did you justice?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, hey, listen, that station is 100,000 watts, so I don't know about weak.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Put up an antenna.
unidentified		Yeah, well, listen to it on the C. Well, it's mostly good for AM anyway, though, isn't it?
unidentified		CC, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
		Oh, so, well, you can put up an FM antenna and attach it to the back of CC Radio.
		Take a look.
unidentified		Yeah, I do, but I'm sitting here in an apartment, so I don't get very busy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, welcome to the show.
unidentified		Yes.
		Well, I wanted to make a suggestion for a show you might have.
		I know you were planning on having one a couple of Fridays ago, but it was taken up or something.
		But before you went on your hiatus, you were suggested that maybe one night you might do a show on movies, callers in just calling about movies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good topic.
unidentified		Yeah, I think you should.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if so, wait a minute.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What movie would you have called about?
unidentified		Oh, geez, I'm interested in so many different kinds.
		One in particular I probably want to talk with you about.
		It's called Quater Mass in the Pit, or probably by its American title, it's known as Five Million Years to Earth.
		Ever seen it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
		I've seen almost every movie of the genre.
		How would I miss that?
unidentified		I don't know.
		Art, it's a great show.
		It was redone.
		It's done by Hammer Films.
		It was done in the, I think, the mid-60s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was the concept?
unidentified		It's about a group of men who discover, they're digging a subway in London, and they run across something that they think is an unexploded bomb from World War II.
		But as the movie progresses, they find human fossils there.
		Or I should say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait, Wait a minute, that's beginning to sound familiar.
unidentified		Yes, and then eventually ghosts come in, occults, and all this kind of stuff, and you wonder, how in the world could they mix all this stuff together and make something cohesive and whole?
unidentified		But actually, it's a fantastic movie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I kind of remember that.
unidentified		Well, does Insect People ring a bell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it does.
unidentified		Okay, then you've seen it.
unidentified		Yeah, great movie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you're interested, don't you, have you seen the ghost on my site yet?
unidentified		I don't have a computer art, so I'd have to go to the library, and I get there so unofficially my job keeps me away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we'll get it in the newsletter if you happen to get that.
		But this is incredible.
		I mean, if you can imagine something halfway materialized or dematerialized, and you can zoom in on this, I mean, you can download it, zoom in on it, and it holds together, and you can see this half being cottage-iri.
		Anyway.
unidentified		I'd love to.
unidentified		One of these days, the computer will be in my future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I will consider a show on movies.
		And music.
unidentified		Do one on music, too.
unidentified		That would be pretty nice as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we talk about that a lot because of all the, you know, the bubble music that I play.
unidentified		Yeah, I know, but there's people out here that have...
unidentified		I could talk your ear off about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, my friend.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		Have a good day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much and take care.
		West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Carson, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was ringing the phone for my girlfriend.
unidentified		She wants to talk to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rima.
		Yeah, Rima, come on.
		I got him.
		You're the star here, Rima, I guess.
		So on the phone with you.
		Rima, come here.
		Come on, Rima.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there, Rima.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air?
unidentified		Yeah, I just wanted to ask a question about the Antichrist.
		I'm not going to mention the name.
		Okay.
		I called, I went to all the bookstores hoping to find a book, and they don't have anything listed under his name.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a lot of material on the web.
		Do you have a computer?
		No, I don't.
		Another person without a computer.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought America was connected.
unidentified		Sheesh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, go to the library and go to the computer at the library.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They've got one there, right?
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And do a search on that name or do a search on the Antichrist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, I'm not saying that person is the Antichrist.
unidentified		Oh, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As you know, that's Kathleen Keating that's saying that.
		So I'm not saying that person is the Antichrist.
		And for all I know, I could be the Antichrist.
unidentified		And a lot of people think I am.
		And are you, I think you said you might be planning to have them as a guest.
		I think that would be great.
		I think that would have a lot of viewers.
		Oh, well, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listeners.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have listeners, not viewers.
unidentified		Viewers, TV, radios, listeners.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you've got it.
		I'll see what I can do.
		I've been tossing the thought around in my mind and receiving warnings.
unidentified		Oh, I don't have the Antichrist fund.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't do that.
		And then others who've been saying, oh, yes, it would be very interesting.
		Well, as I just told that young lady, I have no idea whether Kathleen Keating is right about who the Antichrist is.
		The Antichrist may not be here yet, may not be coming, or may already be here and all revved up to do his thing.
		I have no idea.
		Or it may be one of us.
		Maybe the Antichrist has no idea who the Antichrist is.
unidentified		Donna.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
		Hello, Art.
		Hi there.
		You must be in a truck.
unidentified		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where is your truck?
unidentified		I am driving halfway through Nebraska.
unidentified		I'm Steve from Moline, Illinois.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, seats.
unidentified		I got a couple things I've been wanting to talk to you about.
		Can't believe I got through.
		One of them is one of your favorite bumper musics, and I hope I don't lose you on the cell phone, is Fear of the Cat by Al Stewart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it certainly is.
unidentified		There is another song by Al Stewart that is excellent.
		One of your favorite subjects is the subject of time and particularly time travel.
		Al Stewart has a song from back in the 70s that's called Time Passages.
		And if you can't get a copy of it, it's excellent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I'd be glad to check it out.
		But You're of the Cat, there's something about that song that I can't quite figure out that has me entranced.
		I don't know what it is.
unidentified		I agree with you, and I enjoy this song.
		I also have two cats at home, but that's beside the subject.
		But I really think you would love Time Passages.
		It has some of the same sound and qualities, and it has something that, I don't know, it's kind of hypnotic.
		Maybe that was the secret.
		Also, a few weeks back you had a guest on your show that was using a plasma generator to make a clock go faster.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Could you imagine if a person could take that to work with them, and when you went to work, you could make time go real fast?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or how about a small model you could take to school?
		I mean, remember school?
		Yeah.
		What a bummer that was.
		If you could just rush that along.
unidentified		And then when you got out of work, you could slow the clock down and for every hour with your significant other, you could make it go one-third slower.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		I love it.
		All right, thank you.
		Sure.
		I love the idea.
		Speed it up at school or work, bring it home, and when you get into the pleasure dome that you call home, you slow it down.
		And therefore, you do not save for any short period during any given 24-hour time.
		You don't get older.
		You don't get younger because at the end of it all, you have sped up work and the part you didn't like or school and then slowed down the parts you did like.
		So there's no net gain, no net loss.
		I like it.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, my name is Jason.
		Listen to your show.
		I love it.
		Thank you.
		And I'm glad you're back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, Jason?
unidentified		I'm in Las Vegas, Nevada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Over the hill.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
		Over the hill.
		Anyway, I know you're not particularly talking about ghosts and everything tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got the best photograph mankind has ever seen.
unidentified		I saw it on the website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, thank you.
		Thank you, thank you.
		Finally, somebody would have to.
unidentified		It is beautiful.
unidentified		I mean, it's.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, is it is it exactly what I said, either half materialized or half dematerialized, one or the other?
unidentified		I don't know, but it's given me chicken skin just thinking about it.
		I looked at it and I was like, wow, that is crazy.
		It looks like a girl to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can't.
unidentified		I'm not sure either.
		It kind of looks like a girl walking down.
		I'm not sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, whatever it is.
		You know, I've heard so many stories.
		You always hear in ghost stories about people either appearing or disappearing, right?
		Absolutely.
		And you know that that occurs because you hear so many stories.
		But when do you ever get a photograph of it?
		Usually it's either a mist or it's a solid person.
		And you can say, well, you know, that's a real person.
		It's not a ghost.
		Or that's just somebody who fuzzed it in there.
		But this one.
		Good lord, you can see right through part of the person and the rest and some of the person is solid.
		It's just the best photograph I've ever seen.
unidentified		It looks like a mist with total form and face and everything.
		Yeah.
		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Except it's more than mist.
unidentified		Well, exactly.
unidentified		And that's what hit home to me, and that's why I'm calling, is because I've seen something of the same nature.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have?
unidentified		When I was in New Zealand, when I was about 12 years old, I was flying to New Zealand.
		That's where my mother is from.
		Her father was dying, and so we were flying to New Zealand, so me and my brother could meet my grandfather again, you know, a second time before he died.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and where do you see this?
unidentified		He died one hour before we landed in New Zealand, which was pretty horrific for my mother and all.
unidentified		And they pulled us off the plane, blah, blah, blah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I tell you he went because he was critically ill.
unidentified		Yeah, well, he was.
unidentified		He had his legs run over by a tank in World War I and did some intelligence work during World War II.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, what I mean is you went all the way to New Zealand on news that he was ill or not?
unidentified		Yes, we did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you did.
unidentified		Okay, I thought so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so you got there and what?
unidentified		Yeah, we got there, and my brother and I and my cousin were staying in a trailer that my aunt had rented.
		My mom's sister had rented the trailer for us all to stay in.
		And this is before the funeral and everything, two days before the funeral.
		And I wake up and I'm feeling all kind of weird and stuff.
		And I wake up and I sit up and I look down the trailer to where my brother is sleeping in a bunk at the end of the trailer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we don't have much time, yes?
unidentified		And there's my grandfather in the same kind of form.
unidentified		It looks almost like static on your TV.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, about halfway there and halfway.
unidentified		Well, no, he was fully there, but he was still static.
unidentified		He did look at him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you see him when he finally dematerialized?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did he just blink out or did he fade away or what?
unidentified		He looked at my brother and he looked down at him and came over to me and he saw that I was awake and he smiled at me and he saw my cousin and he smiled at my cousin and he smiled at us and then he just kind of dematerialized.
unidentified		He just went away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dematerialized.
		All right.
		Well, that's the kind of story that you hear all the time.
		What you don't get is apparent proof of something either coming or going.
		Again, I would have no way of knowing from this photograph, but obviously halfway there and halfway there.
		If you follow me.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi, Art.
		This is Jeff Terrell, Texas, listening to you on 570 KLI, Africana Dallas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cliffin, Dallas, and you're on a cell phone, too.
unidentified		Yes.
		And I want to tell you, I did go to your website.
		That is a remarkable ghost photo.
		Art, my question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You saw it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		My question is, do you know when you're going to have Major Ed Dames on again?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, in the first week of April.
		I talked to Ed Dames earlier today, in fact.
		Well, you know, one of the things that he's going to be reporting to us on is the skunk ape photos that were on my website.
		He's remote viewed those.
unidentified		Oh, great.
		Well, I just wanted to tell you something.
		Before you had us, I've been listening to you for a long time.
		I'm a police officer.
		I sent you an email about this.
		But the last time he was on, you asked him if many departments use this.
		Yes.
		And I'm really trying to get this pushed as a credible tool for law enforcement in Texas.
		And I know that it works because before your hippos, Ed Dames said one night on your show, oh, he just came to him.
		There's going to be a tornado that strikes down in the Houston area.
		Sure enough, two days later, Art, one hit right at the edge of Houston, killed a guy in a mobile home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure sorry to hear that.
		Back today, they had tornadoes all across the South.
		It was horrible.
unidentified		But I thought of that, and it really confirmed to me that this day's ed names is incredible.
		Well, thanks a lot, Art.
		Just wanted to make that comment to you.
		Enjoy your time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		You may have a tough time getting departments.
		I wouldn't think Texas would necessarily be the first to embrace remote viewing.
		Some parts of Texas are pretty hard-headed about stuff like that.
unidentified		Well, I'm going to try to go through our equivalent to the California Post officer's standards and trainings and try to do this.
unidentified		I think it's a really good tool for cold cases.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think Ed believes that as well.
		Thank you very much for the call, and good luck.
		I saw a funny joke about Texas and Survivor.
		Anybody hear that one?
		I can't remember it properly to tell it to you, but it had something to do with a bumper sticker that you would have to put on your car, be a new Survivor series, you know, after the Outback.
		And you'd have to put this bumper sticker on your car, something about, hi, I'm here to take your guns.
		And there was more to it.
		I don't think I can repeat it on the air, but you get the idea.
		And the challenge was to make it all the way from West Texas to East Texas and survive with that bumper sticker on your car.
		So I don't know.
		Texans are not exactly the first to rush in on something that's sort of on the edge here.
		But I don't know, maybe parts of Texas.
		All right.
		Well, one more time.
		That's good music for a ghost, huh?
		This ghost photograph is the best, in my opinion, ever taken, and it's on my website right now.
		Just go to the What's News section.
		You'll see Montreal ghost.
unidentified		Oh, my.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Half here and half there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely incredible.
unidentified		www.artbell that's a rtbl dot com tell me if it is call
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903 this is Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Knive Well, good morning, everybody on the East Coast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening, those of you in the far west.
		And I suppose good afternoon on Guam, now carrying all five hours of the program.
		Thank you very much.
		Listen, we're about to dive into the case for NASA's UFOs.
		I bet they hate book titles like this.
		Evidence 2001, the case for NASA's UFOs by David Serita.
		They just hate stuff like this.
		And as the program progresses, as we talk to David, we may get James Oberg on here, who's a mission controller for NASA and kind of a self-described debunker skeptic, buff on space air mythology.
		His words, all his words, David thinks there's nothing mythological about it.
		It's all real, and we're about to get into that.
		Just a couple of real quick things for those stations joining at this hour.
		One, Friday night, Saturday, I went to the RNR talk convention down in Marina Del Rey, California, L.A. And I want to get some photographs.
		I want to talk to you about it because some amazing things happened there.
		Some really cool things happened there.
		And I took a camera, but everybody was taking photographs of me, along with many others that were there.
		And so before I get into any detail about it, I want to beg those of you who took the photographs to email them to me so I can get them up on the site.
		Send me the most interesting ones.
		I mean, a million people were taking photographs, but because I seem to be the subject of so many, I didn't take any.
		I took very few.
		So if you would be so kind, email them to me at artbell at mindspring.com, and then we'll tell the story of what happened at Marina Del Rey.
unidentified		How's that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Need those photographs.
		There is a photograph I've got right now on the website that is a total, total mind blower.
		This one comes from Montreal, Canada.
		It is the best ghost photograph I've ever seen in my entire life.
		The best ghost photograph.
		Either it's a being caught on the streets of Montreal, half materialized.
		I mean, half, you know, the typical mist, but formed mist, and half human.
		And it was either coming or going.
		But this one's a keeper, folks.
		It's the best ghost photograph we've ever received.
		Go to my website at www.artbell.com.
		Take a look at this.
		Download it.
		Blow it up if you want.
		Take a good close look at it.
		Have a pixel people party with it if you want.
		And let me know what you think.
		Inevitably, some are going to say fake, but I've looked very closely at this one, and I can't even see a hint of that.
		I think we've got the real McCoy right now on my website at www.artbell.com.
		Have a blast.
		All right, now comes David Serrita.
		Now, David Serrita is author of an upcoming book called Evidence 2001, The Case for NASA UFOs.
		This discovery and investigation of UFOs filmed by astronauts on space shuttle missions, presenting, for example, the STS-75 Tether incident, was featured with David Serrita as speaker on 20th Century Fox TV special UFOs, the best evidence caught on tape 2.
		That was April 27th of 2000.
		So you've probably seen David on TV.
		David's business experience includes 1996 through 8 as being vice president, then president of high energy micro devices, an R ⁇ D company, working as a U.S. Department of Defense contractor building leading-edge national security detection systems for buried landmines, future airport, and U.S. customs detection systems for explosives, narcotics, and chemical weapons.
		He was also in charge of government and military communications and assisting in global marketing for high-energy micro devices.
		In 1992 through four, he was president of LA Base Green and Blue Corporation, raising echo venture capital for modern technological solutions for a better environment.
		From 1990 through 1992, director of the LA Base Tesla Foundation, promoting scientific discoveries for a better environment, under which he spoke in Congress in a debate on nuclear fusion in 1992.
		From 1980 through 2000, David has marketed various environmental products, helped with oil spill cleanups over the course of 20 years.
		Get this.
		He has personally planted over 1 million trees in the forests of the Pacific Northwest.
		1 million trees.
		David Serrita, Johnny Appleseed, I guess.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Of a sort, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, how are you doing, David?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Good, Art.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I'm really glad to be on your show, and I really thank you for having an open mind and not knowing much about me having me on the show today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I do.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		David, a little later in the show, you have a very open mind because I got a fax, not a fax, but an email from James Oberg.
		And James Oberg describes himself, as I said a little while ago, in a kind of an interesting way as a NASA mission control veteran, a buff on space age mythology, interesting word, and a self-deceit.
		He used the word himself, debunker.
		So you agreed to perhaps later in the show have a few moments of debate with Mr. Oberg, and I think that's open-minded of you.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it is.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		It is, considering he's coming in to flam me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, so be it.
		We'll see.
		Let's begin.
		Let's get your story out first.
		Now, we've got a whole series of photographs on my website right now that you have provided for us that we've pulled off another website someplace because we've got the bandwidth to handle it.
		And these seem to have to do with the tether, with NASA's tether experiment.
		So I guess that's where we ought to begin, perhaps with your contact with Michael Boyle.
		Start the story for me.
		I mean, how did you get into all of this?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, with my experience in working with many of the top nuclear scientists in the United States and Russia for the past 15 years or 10 years or so on nuclear fusion, I had access to many of the most brilliant physicists in this country and the next.
		And working as a spokesperson and communications person for them in the investment community and with the government, I had a good working knowledge of, in a general sense, of how science works and how to have conversations.
		So a photographer named Mike Boyle in Canada back in 1994 had noticed on a cable TV station some phenomenal NASA footage of what appeared to be UFOs.
		And he phoned me up and was really excited about the footage and said he saw balls of light zipping away from the Earth's atmosphere, something that you would never see a meteorite or shooting star capable of doing.
		And the fact that these objects were zipping away from the Earth and shooting out into space was indicative of them having internal energy to escape the Earth's powerful gravity.
		And so Mike suggested that we get a hold of the man who owned the footage and try to conduct the scientific investigation.
		Right.
		And that was my job.
		So after tracking down the man, Martin Stubbs, who started all this stuff, and who is Martin Stubbs?
		Martin Stubbs is a program manager of a cable TV station in Vancouver, Canada, who was recording over 400 hours of live broadcasts of NASA space shuttle missions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, the NASA Select Channel, probably.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		And he had access to a huge, you know, a huge library, I guess.
		Yeah, a library of footage that he actually downloaded with the satellite at the station.
		And a phenomenal collection.
		And finally, after talking to Martin Stubbs, he wasn't so open to me right away.
		He was a little worried that I might be a man in black or someone working in Department of Defense who is spying on him.
		He wasn't just, you know, here's the footage and glad to meet you.
		I had to really talk to him, and Mike did too, and it was a lot of hard work.
		And Martin finally opened up to us when he realized our intentions were the same as his to investigate a potential UFO phenomenon.
		And so finally, Martin gave us a tape.
		And I decided to start my investigation at NASA by talking to the head of astrochemistry, Dr. Joseph News III.
		And what I ended up doing was starting a game called process elimination.
		We would look at the footage on the video and basically go through every known phenomenon in the solar system and find out if we could eliminate the phenomena or if it would survive the investigation and become classified as unidentified.
		And the first thing I found out, first of all, was Joseph Knuth was incredibly open-minded.
		He immediately wrote me back.
		I had written him about the phenomena that I had seen on the tape.
		And the first thing he wrote me was that about a physicist named Dr. Louis A. Frank, who was a National Space Act Award-winning astrophysicist, who had made a major discovery way back in 1985 of what appeared to be balls of water, properly termed now small comets, although they're not related to comets at all.
		40-ton balls of water doing 35,000 miles an hour and 10 to 20 million of them impacting the Earth.
		And there were some very disturbing things Dr. News was telling me about this research.
		And the first being that these objects only showed up with cameras that were sensitive to light in the ultraviolet light spectrum.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would that be?
		Why would it not...
		Well, a ball of water in space would be a ball of ice, right?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, not necessarily.
		Okay, the first problem with the water ball theory, and this is an enormous debate at NASA, scientists fight with each other furiously about this.
		Water essentially cannot survive deep transits in space unless it's in the form of a massive object like a comet.
		The reason being is space is about minus 273 degrees centigrade.
		It's freezing.
		But as soon as you put an object In space, whether it's a satellite or your finger or a ball of water, the intense radiation from the sun destroys it.
		It bombards it.
		The water basically would be destroyed into, it would separate into hydrogen and oxygen and burn off into various gases and would disappear.
		So the first, the first.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute, David.
		Again, it couldn't be in the form of water in space anyway.
		Now, you're talking about 40-foot-wide balls of water.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		They start at 40 feet wide.
		Now, again, this is a very interesting debate because no one knows for certain.
		Later in my investigation, Dr. Louis A. Frank FedExed me an entire package of data from his discovery, and he deducts water based on what's called the atomic scattering of oxygen trails coming out of the back of these things.
		In other words, they kind of streak across the sky, coming into the earth, and then the trail, they detected oxygen, and the oxygen, basically, the sunlight reacts with it, and the nuclear reaction produces heat, and you get this atomic scattering of oxygen.
		Now, one of the most disturbing things to Dr. New, again, first of all, was that theoretically, water couldn't have arrived here.
		It couldn't have arrived.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that was a spectral analysis that determined it was water?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		It's actually Dr. Louis A. Frank's hypothesis based on the atomic scattering of oxygen.
		He doesn't actually detect water.
		He makes the hypothesis, and I've read all of his data, that they are water.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But backing up again, David, I still don't understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You cannot have water traversing space.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can't.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		That's a good point.
		And that's one of the big arguments that Dr. News on the other side of NASA is saying reasons believing that they couldn't be waterballs.
		But it gets more and more interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But they couldn't be waterballs.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		They couldn't be theoretically, but when you look at Dr. Frank's data, they're behaving just like waterballs.
		They're coming in at about 35,000 miles an hour.
		They impact at about 300 miles, which is 200 miles above the top of the atmosphere.
		They start to dissolve.
		They vaporize into about 100 kilometer, 100 mile-wide clouds, and they basically drop rain down onto the Earth.
		Now, again, the problem was theoretically the water ball couldn't have survived the transit from another point in the solar system to get here.
		So based on that, Dr. New says they don't believe the objects are real and they couldn't be here.
		However, they're showing up in the ultraviolet spectrum.
		So we have to, first of all, understand what observation is and what that means when something only shows up in the ultraviolet spectrum.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When something begins to enter our atmosphere at 30,000 miles per hour particularly, it would, assuming that it was out there as ice, when it hits the atmosphere, it's going to heat and it's going to become almost immediately water and then vapor, right?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, even way out in space, only if it's really far away from the Earth would it not be in the form, sorry, be in the form of ice.
		As it comes near the sun, which is where the Earth is, it wouldn't even survive.
		It wouldn't even have gotten here in the first place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's impossible.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, ice cannot exist in sunlight and space.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		It just cannot do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now wait a minute.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Only on the dark side of the Earth, where the space shuttle is, where they do this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have comets.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Comets are enormous balls of ice that travel at huge elliptical orbits around the sun.
		As they near the sun, they start to melt and there's intense radiation, and that's why you see the vapor trail and the dust particles.
		And then when they return to their deep orbit into the far reaches of the solar, they refreeze.
		They refreeze.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		So the theory is, and I ran this by Dr. Neus, I said, could these water balls be droppings from the passing of the recent comet Hale Bob?
		And he said, no, because they've been observing these things constantly since 1985, whether a comet was passing or not.
		And he disagreed with Lou Frank's water hypothesis based on the fact that water could not survive getting this close to the sun in such small pockets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if I believe that.
		I mean, it might.
		That's pretty good size.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, it sounds like a good size, but when you consider the intensity of the radiation of the sun in space, we think, because space is cold, that when you consider that we protect our satellites with radiant barrier foils so that they're not damaged by intense rays, it gives you an idea of how intense cosmic rays are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, whatever that is.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Getting further, because that's still just the beginning.
		First of all, to understand how we see and how we see objects and how cameras see objects, basically, light is just energy.
		It's electromagnetic energy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		And it's a low end of the spectrum for the audience.
		Radio waves are at the very lowest end of the energy spectrum.
		Higher than that are infrared and microwaves, which are usually detected as heat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, even lower than that would be audio.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's back down in radio, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Below radio, there would be just plain audio, like I see.
unidentified		Okay.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		And then higher than infrared is the color red, which we all see, which is actually a wavelength of energy.
		And then the color orange, which is a particular spectrum of energy, and yellow, and green, and blue, and violet, which is the highest energy that the human brain can see.
		And then above that, we have ultraviolet, which is divided into near, far, and extreme.
		And the near ultraviolet spectrum is probably about twice the bandwidth of the visible light spectrum.
		And then above that, you have extreme ultraviolet, X-rays, and gamma rays, which is phenomenally high energy.
		Now, the Space Shuttle's UF, I'm sorry, the Space Shuttle's black and white video cameras, which is, if people are wondering why they see these black and white video images from STS-45 and 48 and the Tether, it's because the Space Shuttle has a very special video camera, which I've researched, that has sensors developed by a company called Advanced Photonics in Camarilla, California, that allows the shuttle's cameras to see into the near ultraviolet.
		And also, with the addition of something called some sort of scintillion multiplier, they're able to detect gamma and x-rays, But not actually see gamma and x-rays, but detect in that range in the form of noise.
		If something was coming in a very high-energy object, they might see something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I agree with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're extremely sensitive cameras.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Now, NASA has never seen anything, an object that only shows up in the high spectrum before.
		When you take a picture with a telescope of a star or a planet, it will show up in the radio spectrum, the infrared spectrum, the visible spectrum, the ultraviolet, near, far, and extreme, X-rays, and gamma rays.
		Now, the fact that these objects only showed up, according to Dr. Newt, in the ultraviolet spectrum was very disturbing to them.
		For such an object to only show up in the ultraviolet spectrum suggests it is a very high-energy quantum phenomenon, if an interpretation like that is considered correct.
		However, well, Lou Frank's supposed alleged water balls are showing up in that spectrum, there is reason to believe that a lot of the UFOs that we're seeing are also showing up in the same spectrum.
		Now, remember, the human eye can't see that high up.
		Our brain, unless we have a very advanced brain, we can't see things in that spectrum.
		And there's even some speculation today that if cameras were equipped in the ultraviolet, you might even see ghosts and other paranormal phenomena that...
		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Believe me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You ought to see the new ghost photograph.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in fact, actually, one night you had a woman on.
		I was dying to try to call in.
		She had taken pictures of UFOs around the Los Angeles area, and she said only the ultraviolet part of the image remained on the camera.
		When she said that, I was so excited because I felt that I understood why that was happening.
		A long time ago, when I was working on non-radioactive nuclear fusion with a scientist named Dr. Bogdan Magwich from MIT, I had a conversation with Earl Van Landingham, who was director of propulsion, power, and energy at NASA.
		And I candidly asked him, after a very long conversation about fusion, about UFOs.
		And he said that no, NASA hasn't seen any evidence of an extraterrestrial craft because if there was such a craft that was to travel to our planet, it would be radiating with such tremendously high energy, indicative that it could conquer the vast distances of space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And listen, David, you've got to hold it right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be right back.
unidentified		All this to me.
		My heart is on fire.
		My soul like a wheel and turn.
		My love is designed for which direction completely disappears on the blue palm wall till the monkey gets dark.
		With a hint that she'll eat it too.
		Be safe, that sucks you modified.
		Just like a river running through The air of the cast The air of the cast Wanna take a ride?
		Well, call our bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
		The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		And to rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Arcel on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		David Serrita is here talking about NASA's UFOs.
		They don't like talking about UFOs.
		Their black and white space shuttle cameras are equipped to see into the near ultraviolet light spectrum, and David Sarita thinks we're seeing craft.
		Music I'm telling you right now, this saxophone does the soul good.
unidentified		Soul medicine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, we'll get right back to David Serita, and we will establish that that is, in fact, what he's talking about.
		Stay right there.
		Back down to David Serrita and his presentation about NASA's UFOs.
		David, I want to rush ahead a little bit, I guess, so that we can discuss some of the photographs that we've got on the website.
		Now, again, these black and white cameras, obviously, I think you've established, capture things the human eye cannot see.
		And you're talking about energy of the kind that it would take to propel a craft across, I guess, interstellar space, right?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so the photographs that we've got from NASA, of all people from NASA, you're saying are extraterrestrial craft, or at least some of them are, right?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Well, after reviewing all the evidence, and again, this is a case, I look at both sides.
		I look at the arguments against the idea that they're UFOs or unidentified objects and the evidence that they are.
		And in the end, for me, it looks like they definitely are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I'm on my website right now, and we've got a link to the BBC in Nottingham and an article entitled, The Truth is Out There.
		It shows a UFO in space, a question mark underneath, is it a jellyfish, just a blob, or could it be a UFO?
		It sounds like a story straight out of the X-Files, a videotape, which has had to be locked in a Nottingham bank because it contains footage of extraterrestrials.
		Now, they show this, I don't know, blob, for lack of a better word, ball of water, blob, whatever in the hell it is.
		It is a very clear shot.
		They've got this footage locked in a bank vault.
		They're so concerned about it.
		And then I looked at the pictures that you provided.
		And I'll be damned.
		You show the first picture just above the tether.
		And everybody will remember the tether experiment.
		We'll get more into that.
		But just above the tether is what looks to be the same damn thing, a blob, for lack of a better word.
		What is that?
		Describe that photograph to me.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, the blob that you're talking about that was videotaped in England in October of 2000 looks identical in three major characteristics to the UFO, alleged UFOs at this point, of the giant discs that were passing behind the 12-mile-long tether on STS-75 in 1996.
		The UFO filmed in England is round, mostly light.
		It has a black hole in the center.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		It has a ring shape around that black hole and has what the woman who videotaped it called a bite taken out of the side of it, which was probably more visible to her because the disc is on its side, and you can see this light bite out of the side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see it.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		And she actually described later that she saw light flashing inside of that bite, and also that the disc that she saw was pulsing.
		Now, the UFO that passed on the tether on STS-75 was pulsing.
		It is round, mostly light, has a black hole in the center.
		And when I freeze framed the pulses on a very good VCR and a large TV screen with an extremely good quality copy of the tether directly from Martin Stubbs, I got three distinct phases in this pulse.
		One, the first phase is a spiraling wave radiating out from the center of the hole, which looks like a perfect spiral.
		The second phase is a ring shape around the nucleus, and this is happening very fast, so if you saw it actually going by, it would look like a ring around the black hole in the center, which is identical to the UFO in England.
		And also that the tether UFO has a square notch cut out of the side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll give you that.
		I think this is identical to the one in England.
		Very, very.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		If you look at the video, free framing video frames and taking pictures with a 35 millimeter camera off of the TV is not the best.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's a very poor way to do it.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		It's a very poor way to do it.
		But when you watch the video, as you've seen, the tether UFOs are perfectly round.
		They're very crisp edges.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have never seen this craft that you've got with it, but apparently it occurs very quickly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you talked to NASA about this photograph?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what does NASA say?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, I get different answers from everywhere I go to, and that is one piece of evidence.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		The fact that everyone answers the tether differently suggests to me that either no one there really knows anything or the truth is being obscured by all of the clouds of the different stories I get.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's remind the audience.
		Now, the tether experiment was an experiment to see if you could lower this.
		How long was the tether?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I'll describe the tether.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		The Tether experiment was basically NASA's first experiment into tapping into what you might call zero point energy or quantum free energy, her meeting the void in space.
unidentified		Well, okay, I'm not really sure if that's...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, but how long was the tether?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		It was 12 miles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		12 miles long, really long.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		A long tether, which was to conduct electricity along the tether in the form of charged particles that are basically flying everywhere in space.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Lou Frank took a picture with the Polaris satellite in 1997 of the Earth in the ultraviolet spectrum and found that space was supercharged with electrons ranging from 1.7 million electron volt charges all the way to 14 million electron volt charges.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		David, let me tell you a little story, all right, very quickly.
		I'm a ham operator, and I've got a big antenna up, about 100 feet at the center and 50 feet on the ends, and this sucker's like 175 feet on each side of center.
		So it's a lot of wire up there, David.
		And on a windy day, that wire will generate enough electricity just from the wind going across the copper to draw a blue arc of electricity about two inches long.
		I know because I've been the recipient of its ugly little charge a number of times.
		It knocked me on my butt.
		So it's kind of the same principle.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		It is very similar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very similar, except the tether really never did go into the atmosphere, did it?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		The tether was up in the ionosphere, which is the charged part of our upper atmosphere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So as it raced by the tether, it was charging the tether, and they got this incredible, so much voltage that it snapped the tether, correct?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		And they say it snapped in such a precise location that if it had snapped anywhere else, the shuttle could have been in danger of being severely damaged.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could have blown up.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		It could have cut the tether.
		It could have literally ricocheted and did some serious damage to the shuttle.
		And again, something very curious appeared in the press about the tether.
		In the United Press International in February of 1996, they said that after they had lost contact with the tether, because after the tether breaks, the 12-mile tether drifts about 77 to 100 miles away, and three days later, which was February 28th, 1996, the tether was swarmed by what appear to be giant UFOs.
		Now, in the press, it says they had a problem when they recaptured the satellite at the end of the tether.
		They found that the nitrogen fuel tank was emptied.
		Its steering thruster valves were opened.
		A gyroscope that had been left on was powered off, and two other gyroscopes remained on.
		There was an event on the satellite that we do not understand yet, said astronaut David Wolfe told the Columbia crew.
		Now, no one was on that satellite.
		No one could have pushed the buttons to manipulate all of those different scientific instruments.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that was something manipulated them.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Something manipulated them.
		So that was our first clue in the press that something was going on out there.
		And second, when the cameras zoomed in, the black and white cameras held by Claude Nicolier, zoom in, they basically reveal themselves as clear discs with notches.
		They're pulsing.
		And we can clearly see they're passing behind, I have to emphasize, behind the tether.
		Now, because the camera is at the shuttle, and we're looking at a distance across space of 77 to 100 nautical miles, and these disks are passing behind a 12-mile-long ruler, we have relativity.
		If they were passing between the shuttle and the lens and the tether, they would appear to pass in front of it, and we could produce an optical illusion, making them appear larger than they really are.
		But because they're going behind, and it's so obvious, every person I've shown, this really good quality copy I have, it's so obvious they're going behind.
		You can measure their minimum diameters.
		And they're an astounding, the large ones.
		If they're right up next to the back of the tether, they measure two to three miles in diameter.
		That's an independence day-sized craft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		And it is an argument.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		It's an enormous argument.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, when you go to NASA, for example, Oberg, he's not here yet to be chirping away at you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if you were to ask Oberg what these were, what these are that you've got, photographs you've got, what would he say?
unidentified		Do you think?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I'll tell you, first of all, asking Oberg was the first answers he gave me were illogical to the real facts.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		But he, first of all, said that the tether was out of focus, and that's why it appeared so wide, which was the first mistake he made, because I'll explain why they found out it appeared so wide, because the tether is basically a tenth of an inch strand of NOMAX and Kevoir, which you shouldn't even see from 100 miles away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whether it was out of focus or not, how does he account for the presence of what you've got?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		He tries to say that they are floating debris going near the lens of the video camera and that they're out of focus because they're so close to the lens.
		And an out-of-focus object produces something called what astronomers call an airy disc, which basically is an extremely fuzzy orb around the piece of debris, such as it's called, and that was producing the effect.
		But even as I've tested and I've used cameras professionally for 20 years, there is the likelihood of, first of all, of anything being near the camera lens when the camera is focused on infinity, the possibility of even seeing anything, even an airy disc, is almost nil.
		In fact, most things, including paperclips, if you put them in front of a camera lens, focus the lens on infinity, you can't even see the paperclip.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's absolutely correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've done enough camera work to know that.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And the other thing is an airy disc is so out of focus that the squared noxes should not appear.
		And even in secondary, when I freeze frame the pulses, the spiraling wave is so fine and so perfectly in focus.
		Why is that in focus if this is an airy disc?
		Why are the three phases of the pulse so crisp when this is supposed to be out of focus?
		And he also says that the reason they're pulsing is because their debris is tumbling and it's reflecting light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you think we've got independence size, Independence Day-size craft up there or had them up there near this tether experiment?
		Would you give us some sort of hypothesis about why you think they were there?
		Curiosity.
		They wanted to affect the experiment.
		They wanted to stop us from discovering some new energy source.
		What would you imagine would account for their presence near this experiment?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, the answers get so incredibly interesting.
		It's an enigma that slowly unravels itself with such deeper and deeper and more profound meanings.
		First of all, the space shuttle is flying over the west coast of Africa and it just passed over Egypt when this happened on February 28, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Now that's a little auspicious in the beginning, but it gets more auspicious when we go further.
		In 19, sorry, last year, 2000, when I was working with Robert Keviat, the producer of Evidence 2000, sorry, the UFO is the best evidence caught in Tate 2, a researcher named David Boward came to me and he said, Mr. Sarita, have you ever seen a Dropostone?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A what?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		A Dropostone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's that?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, a Dropostone, no, I said, no, I haven't.
		And he said, I think you better take a look at this.
		On the border of Tibet and China in 1936, the University of Beijing archaeology professors found an archaeology site where they found skeletal remains of little people that are between three and four and a half feet tall with big heads, fold as heads.
		They found inside the grave site round discs with a hole in the middle, a square notch cut out of the side, and a spiraling groove of hieroglyphics radiating counterclockwise out from the center.
		Now, when I looked at the UFO from the tether in pulse mode, on the first phase of the pulse, it's a round disc with a hole in the middle with a counterclockwise spiraling wave radio out from the center and a square notch out of the side.
		It was a perfect match.
		Now, what are the odds of four criteria being identical in these two incidences?
		I researched further and I researched dropostones and basically, to make an extremely interesting and long story short, archaeologists struggled for years to understand the dialogue and the hieroglyphics that were actually imprinted in very small characters inside of the spiraling groove.
		And it told the story of crashed saucers that landed on the Tibetan-Chinese border 12,000 years ago from the star system of Sirius.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		So if the UFOs we're seeing on the Tether incident in 1996 were the same As the UFOs that crashed on the Tibetan-Chinese border in 1936, then we were looking at a star system match.
		But it gets explosively interesting from this point on.
		As soon as I had made the match to Sirius, I started to go to the next level.
		And I read Robert Temple, who wrote The Sirius Mystery.
		He's a major astronomer from England, and one of Richard Hogan's favorite authors.
		He quotes them all the time.
		And one of Richard Hogan's favorite star systems is Sirius.
		And we learn of a tribe in West Africa called the Dogon tribe, who not only knew everything about the star system of Sirius prior to our astronomers knowing, they knew, they described Sirius with a main star, an A star, a B star, and a C star, the ancient African tribe said revolved around the main star every 50 years.
		And our best telescopes had seen Sirius B, the second star, in 1970.
		And it wasn't until 1996 or 92 that we had seen Sirius C. And once we did the math, we found out that they both traveled around the main star every 50 years, just like the ancient Dogon priest said.
		Now, it gets incredibly interesting because when you read Robert Temple's book, The Sirius Mystery, we learned that the Syrians were known as the water gods who traveled from Sirius in watery spacecraft many thousands of years ago and created the earliest civilizations on our planet.
		They created the goddess Isis, whose chamber is in the Great Pyramid, are the creators of the Egyptian civilization.
		The god Owens, who is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so anyway, what you're really saying is these giant craft have been here for perhaps a very long time, longer than we've been here, during the time we've been here, and they're here now.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I'm saying, and it gets, exactly, there's a strong case to support that.
		And when we look back at Lou Frank's water balls and we started studying them a little more, I didn't get to go more into them.
		They appear to be hating the intelligently.
		Dr. New said there are so many of these water balls entering our atmosphere, if they were entering randomly like raindrops, they should have destroyed every satellite in the sky.
		And he says this with a fury.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, one of those impacting a satellite at 35,000 miles an hour, which eventually would occur, would blow it to scytherines.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		According to the densities, he said it should have already happened.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		He said no satellite, not one of our satellites nor the space shuttle should survive a day, let alone years, if these were actually coming in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that makes your case for intelligent control.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		If they were going around the satellites, then they would be intelligent.
		And again, Robert Temple describes from the Dogon tribe who live on the west coast of northern Africa, precisely where the space shuttle was when this event occurred, say that they travel in watery craft that have kind of like a radiant barrier or thin metal lining around them to protect them from the intense radiation from the sun as they travel from Sirius to here.
		That is from the ancient knowledge from Sirius.
		When you compare that to Lou Frank's data, and you compare it to, and when I tell you what Lou Frank actually wrote to me when he saw the tape, do we have time before?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, we don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got top of the hour right now, all right?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'll go into that when we get to that.
unidentified		stay right there Some people wanna build a world with a silly love song.
		And what's wrong with that?
		I'd like to know because here I go again.
		I love you.
		I love you.
		You're the tree in the ground.
		We are the shoes.
		Remember to you, try and live and take you I'm going to go on, breathless moon into their love of time.
		I'm going to go on, breathe, baby, in the love of life.
		To rechart bell in the Kingdom of Nigh from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Number one, a reminder, everybody, I've got the best ghost photograph ever submitted to Coast to Coast AM, ever sent to me on the website right now from Montreal, Canada.
		It's all at www.artbell.com.
		And I've got David B. Sarita, who's written a book that is yet to come out, all about NASA's UFOs.
		Now, he's established that NASA uses black and white space shuttle cameras that are equipped to see into the near-ultraviolet light spectrum.
		He's established that something is coming into our atmosphere occasionally at 35,000 miles an hour.
		He's established that these things could not possibly have missed the shuttle or our geosynchronous satellites, or for that matter, those polar orbiters that are up there, that they should have been destroyed by these things unless they're intelligent.
		He's also saying that their size is that of, well, remember Independence Day?
		A mile or two, you know, over-the-city type size?
		And that apparently they just don't want to get seen.
		Now, if you want to see a picture of one of these, you can.
		Just go to my website, Program Tonight's Guest Info.
		Under the name David B. Sarita, you'll see NASA UFOs.
		And sure enough, there is one right by the tether, or actually behind, according to David, the tether.
		So, large alien, intelligently controlled craft.
		And we've got photographs of them matching the film in England that's locked in a bank vault right now.
		You can also read about that on my website.
		All of that's up there, and David will be right back.
		Back into the night.
		All right.
		Again, if you'll look below David Sarita's name on my website, you'll see from the BBC Nottingham online a story called The Truth Is Out There.
		And there you will see a photograph of obviously, obviously the same craft, the same phenomena, whatever you want to call it.
		They say, is it a jellyfish, just a blob, or could it be a UFO?
		And it is identical to the photograph that David Serrita has.
		Not a very good photograph that David Serita has on the website because he took a picture of the screen, but that's okay.
		It's good enough to identify it as precisely the same thing as the BBC Nottingham has online.
		Compare them for yourself.
		Large Independence Day-sized craft.
		Now, listen to this.
		Reading from some points that David Sarita sent me, I had just sent the NASA videotape to Dr. Knuth at NASA just before NBC aired confirmation, the hard evidence of aliens among us on February 17th of 99.
		The word from NASA was obviously not to talk to me anymore about this, and he suddenly called everything debris in front of the camera lens, creating an optical illusion.
		So NASA, David, shut down like a steel trap going shut, right?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		At that point, Dr. Noop, and again, in my dialogues with him, I was very scientific.
		We went through meters, shooting stars, and space debris, and we eliminated just about everything in regard to Lou Frank's discovery.
		And he was being very open with me, and he still is.
		He's a wonderful man.
		He doesn't, in the end, share my views, but he's incredibly open for a physicist to look at actually both sides.
		Previously, Dr. Knuth actually told me he used to work for NASA and actually handle a lot of public relations for people who believed the Earth was hollow and that there were UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All kinds of theories.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		He used to answer a lot of that stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But all of a sudden, when this was going to be aired on NBC, he was told to shut up, even though he still communicates at some level with you.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		There was suddenly a communication breakdown, and following that, I did an FOIA on him, which resulted in him getting quite angry with me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You did a freedom of information inquiry, and what did you find out?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's quite hilarious.
		He sent me everything that I had sent him.
		He said the entire file consists of everything you have sent me, and there's nothing else.
		Well, I had a good laugh, and he had a good laugh, and he said there's no other file here other than yours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, come on.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		That's what he said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he sent your own file back to you.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		He sent my own file back to me, and he said he wasn't really that open about going any further.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		And again, when I looked at the news, there were congressional hearings and statements made by Congress saying the same thing, that all of these phenomena were just debris in front of the camera.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now he did write to you February 22nd and said, or made the following admission, if the phenomena is interesting enough to deserve an investigation, then our preference would be for controlled experiments that closely duplicate circumstances of the original observation and test our working hypothesis until they are either verified or falsified.
		So it's pretty obvious to me that they were upset that this was going to go on TV nationally on NBC.
		They wanted a quiet experiment, the results of which could be held within, say, NASA.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think I've got it.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		They wanted a controlled experiment.
		Once that public perception had gotten out from Jack Hasher's STS-48, they were worried.
		And Jack Hasher just had a little ball of something that zipped out into space, and the Martin Subs collection has footage making high-speed 45-degree turns.
		There are some footage of an I have footage of an object moving over the curvature of the Earth and disappearing on the horizon, confirming it couldn't be dust near the camera lens because of disappearing on the horizon and moving over the curvature.
		And this one little ball, which I don't know if you've seen this footage, moves over a conservative 1,000 miles of Earth space distance in four seconds.
		And when you do some math on that, that comes to 0.88 million miles per hour.
		Meteorites and shooting stars top at about 45,000 miles an hour compared to Dr. Newt.
		So something going 0.8 million miles an hour is extremely high velocity.
		The other thing about it is the space shuttle, according to Newt, is usually orbiting the Earth at around 300 miles, and the top of the atmosphere is at 100 miles.
		A lot of times you'll see objects on the tape that are streaking over huge distances above the top of the atmosphere.
		You shouldn't be able to see meteorites above the atmosphere.
		They're dark bodies that are only visible when they burn into the atmosphere.
		The other thing Newt reveals to me, he gives me so much information.
		He says, unless a meteorite was massive, meaning like the meteorite that struck Russia and created the Tunguska event, it would disappear in a matter of a few kilometers and burn up.
		So when you see something that's streaking over a thousand miles of Earth space distance and not burning up, it's either a massive meteorite, which you can deduct it wasn't because we didn't have an explosion on the Earth or an impact, or it's some unknown object.
		And again, based on the speed of this one particular object that I'm talking about, the only thing that could come close to that kind of a speed, going back to my conversation with Earl Van Landingham at NASA, he said that utilizing deuterium-helium-3 fusion in a miniature reactor, you could produce 18 MeV antiprotons.
		18 MeV means protons charged at 18 million electron volts.
		You could build propulsion devices to go one-tenth the speed of light.
		One-tenth the speed of light comes to about 67 million miles per hour.
		So nuclear propulsion systems are capable of producing the kind of velocities of the object in question that I saw down on the Earth.
		And I don't know if you got the facts I sent you, but in regards to Area 51 in Nevada, EG ⁇ G, which is one of the largest defense contractors in the United States, that has bases in Nevada near Area 51, both in their,
		I don't want to say both, but in the history section on their website, I quote, at the Nuclear Rocket Development Station in Nevada, operated by EG ⁇ G, Phobos-2A, the most powerful nuclear reactor yet developed for space propulsion, is successfully tested.
		That's back in 1968.
		And NASA doesn't use nuclear propulsion systems right now.
		They're developing them, but they're not actually using them.
		The space shuttle doesn't use them.
		The Apollo missions didn't use them.
		So if they were successful with nuclear propulsion systems in Nevada and back in 1968, you can't even imagine where they might be at today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm so interested in the apparent evidence we have, this village of Basel thing, which now, by the way, is, again, in a bank, the footage of this UFO that is identical to the one you have.
		And they say they expect a bidding war to break out from the major television networks to try and get their hands on this footage.
		But this would be footage of something that would be a mile or two in size and identical to what you have next to the Tether experiment.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, that just blew my mind.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		When a man named Colin Stevens in England, after I put up my website of some of the Tether UFOs, he emailed this to me saying that he was basically peeing himself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I bet it did blow your mind.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		It did blow my mind.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I literally stood in front of the mirror last night for half an hour, unable to move, because not only was it absolute confirmation for me, seeing the same three criteria in the architecture of the craft, the notch out of the side, the hole in the middle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		It was so stunning to me that, and I connected the whole thing back to Sirius, you know, back to where I believe these craft are from.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		And these are the ancient godfathers and godmothers of our civilization.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe truly our fathers and mothers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think would be, and obviously this is just speculation, but I mean, what do you think their motivation for continually visiting here would be?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I've got some scientific data on that.
		And again, going back to the water balls, one of the first things I said to Dr. Neuth, and remember, the Syrians are known as the water gods, who in Egypt said they ruled the planet 10,000 years ago from the waters.
		Now, water balls being dropped on our atmosphere seems kind of odd at first, but when you can...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't.
		I mean, I've heard astronomers say that they too believe, in fact, that that's how Earth was originally seeded, if you believe in evolution, that comets and ice balls crashing into the atmosphere are what seeded Earth with life.
		That's a fairly mainstream view.
		And there are a lot of people who think these things come crashing into our atmosphere all the time, not comet size, but about the size you're talking about.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Actually, you're correct.
		Now, what water does is it breaks down under intense solar radiation at about 1,800 degrees Fahrenheit.
		Hydrogen separates from oxygen.
		The O2 transforms into O3, which is ozone, under solar radiation.
		So I asked Dr. Newt, could these little balls be healing our ozone wear?
		And he answered me back.
		His preliminary answer was they would definitely be producing some ozone, but he didn't know how much.
		Now, could that be a benevolent sign that the water gods from Sirius, could they be, and again, there have been many sightings which I have been able to document of UFOs off the coast of Hawaii and South America scooping up water in their craft and flying up above the earth.
		Could they be trying to heal our atmosphere, our help, give it by us more time by producing more ozone in this fashion?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know it's something we're concerned with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are a lot of people who believe that the incredible HARP experiments that are going on right now are also an earthly attempt to try to affect some sort of cure of the atmosphere as well.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I've read a lot about HAARP, and a lot of that scares me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's because there's some scary stuff going on right now, environmentally, with the Earth.
		I mean, there is no question about that.
		So you think they might be our friends?
		They might be our friends.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		They might be our friends.
		And that's what Robert Temple, when he studied the Dogon tribe, their philosophy, they first of all prophecy the return of the nomos from Sirius, as they're called, and that when they come back, it will be called the Day of the Fish.
		And they actually have drawings of UFOs with little fish's tails floating in the water to describe their watery-like nature.
		And he describes them as environmentalists.
		And the first thing they would do at the very end of Temple's book, he says they would be concerned about our oceans.
		And, you know, it makes sense.
		First of all, we're losing our atmosphere.
		By deforestation, we're losing a lot of our oxygen, and oxygen is how we get ozone.
		It's the way we produce it.
		Chlorofluorocarbons are actually destroying it, but if we destroy the forest, we destroy the lungs that are actually producing the oxygen, which turn into ozone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we know we're doing that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One of the most visible things from space is the burning of the Amazon, the fires that are going on down there.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Unbelievable what we're doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I think these extraterrestrials are showing many benevolent signs, including what I believe is a signal pointing towards zero-point energy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which, to some degree, was what the Tether experiment was all about.
		I'm curious, David, with the incredible results they had of that Tether experiment, the unusual results, they should have been so puzzled that we would have by now done another experiment, done something else.
		Why did that not propel NASA into almost immediately trying something else?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, they did.
		In 1996, NASA opened up the Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Program in Ohio with the whole goal of literally finding beyond light speed propulsion systems, zero-point energy research, all headed by a 39-year-old physicist named Mark Millis.
		And was that a coincidence?
		Franklin Chang Diaz, a physicist who was aboard STS-75, he became, this was in popular science November 1989, 1999,
		Franklin Chang Diaz, who is a physicist, Costa Rican-born American physicist, suddenly develops a new pulsed plasma magnetic rocket called Vesimmer for NASA, and he becomes the head of the Advanced Space Propulsion Laboratory in Houston.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but David, NASA is supposed to be an open organization, a scientific organization funded by our government, which means funded by us.
		And the results of NASA's experiments or knowledge gained is supposed to be a shared, available thing really to certainly to the U.S. citizens and really the world.
		So why would they suddenly take something like this and want to take it all in-house and not have an external discussion of it and shy away when they hear it's going on NBC, just shut everything down?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, the press isn't that good at running the stories, but if you look inside, for instance, the Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Program in Ohio is well advertised on the internet.
		They're extremely open-minded over there and looking into zero-point energy.
		Again, Dr. Louis A. Frank took photos of the Earth in 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if they're so open, then why did they shut down when you went to Dr. Knuth?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Oh, when I went to Dr. Well, he continued to have conversations with me.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		But again, if you consider the Brookings report in 1958.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, then wait.
		How did you, we'll get to Brookings.
		The word from NASA was obviously not to talk to me anymore about this.
		So now, how did you derive that?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		But they did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you know that the word was out, not to talk to you?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, as soon as confirmation aired on NBC, there was an immediate shutdown, but yet News kept talking to me.
		He kept giving me more information.
		He taught me how to think.
		And I don't know if he was inadvertently doing that or if he was intentionally teaching me how to think like an astrophysicist so I could make my own conclusions.
unidentified		Gotcha.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		And he couldn't come out and say them publicly because I've never seen anyone at NASA, and I haven't seen a UFO or researcher.
		If you looked at the collection of letters that I have and the detail, phenomenal detail in these letters in my book, you'll see that he's teaching me.
		He's teaching me so much that I could make my own conclusions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When is your book going to be out, by the way?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm looking for a publisher now, and believe me, it's quite difficult when, you know, considering the circumstances.
		I ended up showing it to Dan Aykroyd, and he was blown away by the book.
		He wrote an awesome forward to it, which I think you've read.
unidentified		I have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dan Aykroyd, of course, had his own sighting.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Once you've had a sighting, and I had my first in 1968 when I was a little kid in Berkeley, the question about UFOs is gone from day one.
unidentified		I know.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I was seven years old, coming home from school, and there was a disc in the Bay Area in Berkeley, and every person on the street was running out looking at it.
		So for me, from day one, this whole thing is real.
		For James Olberg, it may not be because he may not have seen it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it is real.
		No, it is real.
		I have seen one myself, a large triangle.
		I'm sure you've heard of it.
unidentified		Yeah, I know about your site because I've been listening to your students.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
		From that day forward, you know they are there.
		There is only a question about where they are from and what they are.
		Not that they are there.
		I know they're there.
		So, but what you're describing here, craft of this size, holy smokes, David.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Enormous.
		Enormous.
		And if they're further behind the tether than I think, they could be five miles.
		They could be ten miles in diameter.
		That's conservative, suggesting they're right behind the tether.
		If they're far behind it, then these things are even larger than that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And your contention is our eyes don't see them.
		Well, or at least don't see them easily.
		But NASA cameras operating in a spectrum above what we can see see them with ease.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		See them with ease, and maybe even what they're seeing is only the residue of an even higher dimension of energy that they're radiating, maybe up into the X-ray and gamma ray, and zero-point energy is even higher than gamma.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, we could just be seeing the edge of their energy output.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got you.
		All right.
		Hold on, David.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		I'm going to see if I'm going to be able to get James Oberg on the telephone, and we'll have a little conversation between the two of these gentlemen.
		NASA mission control veteran is what Mr. Oberg is, as well as a buff on space age mythology and a self-described debunker.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		Oh, the night in my world Made me like a painted girl Thank you.
		In the day, nothing must In the night, turn the sun in the night, no control through the walls, something like where we ride and walk down the street of the home.
		Take myself, you take myself Bye.
		Wanna take a ride?
		Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
		The wail card line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		And to call Art on the Toll-Free International Line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be me.
		Good morning, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell.
		All kinds of things going on in the website right now.
		A photograph of a ghost that defies explanation.
		Best I've ever seen from Montreal.
		You take a look.
unidentified		Oh, Montreal Ghost.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Be interested in hearing from you.
		We have, of course, with us David Sarita right now talking about NASA UFOs in it in a moment.
		Coming up is a NASA mission control veteran.
		They don't frequently speak out at all.
		Named James Oberg, Jim Oberg.
		And he's also a buff on space age mythology and his own word, his word, a debunker.
		Stay right there.
		David Sabrita has drawn quite a picture for you, folks.
		He's got evidence in the form of photographs on my website, NASA, photographs, I might add, of something that matches up perfectly with something seen in England, so secret it's locked in a bank vault right now.
		We've talked about the whys and the wherefores of it all.
		And now what I'm going to do, let's be sure David is still there.
		Are you there, David?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
		All right.
		I want to bring on, I guess, somebody that you've had conversations with before.
		Have you?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, a lot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lots, huh?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Lots of emails from James Oberg.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From James Oberg.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever actually encountered him in person?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I picture that he looks like Mike Tyson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mike Tyson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll find out.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		He wants to kill me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he is a NASA mission control veteran, a buff on space age mythology.
		Don't you like that, David?
		And a debunker.
		So here he is from Texas, where it's pretty late in the morning.
		Those descriptions are fair.
		You gave those to me earlier for you, didn't you, James?
unidentified		I sure did.
		And there's more data on my homepage, jamesoberg.com.
		Hi, David, and I sure appreciate some of the research you've mentioned because, for example, Franklin Chang's propulsion system is a real cool idea.
		And I'm sure glad he's hope he keeps getting support even with his cutbacks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Eamon, just before we get into that, you were a NASA mission control veteran.
		You were for NASA.
		How long?
unidentified		I was as a contractor.
		I was working there from 75 through about 97, 22 years.
		I was working there on the first shuttle flights, did orbital rendezvous work, picked up that satellite, the LDEF satellite with all the tomato seeds in it, and then helped design the initial orbits for the space station.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I'm looking at the photographs on my website that David provided, NASA's UFOs, he calls them, and I think that's where we ought to start.
		I mean, there's a picture of the tether, and behind it is this one to two-mile or larger spacecraft that David says the black and white cameras on the shuttle captured.
		If we're not seeing that, what are we seeing, James?
unidentified		Well, I'll have to explain to you what I think because David didn't get it right, and either I didn't make it clear or it got garbled.
		What we're seeing are things that we see all the time on our shuttle pictures.
		These cameras, by the way, the black and white ones, they're pretty ordinary light cameras.
		I don't know where this ultraviolet range story came from, but they pick up the visible light, black and white, and the same things people see with their eyes out there.
		And often there'll be things around the shuttle.
		And this kind of debris is pretty common.
		You get to see this, and I've watched it for hundreds of hours in the control center.
		Often these are the kind of shots, the vacation film, you throw away your bad shots and don't put the dirty ones out there.
		But they're pretty common.
		So what we're seeing here is the tether.
		Now, it's at sunset because it's lit by the sun.
		And I don't know why they would say you shouldn't be able to see it because it's too thin.
		I saw the tether myself from the street in front of my house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was visible from Earth.
unidentified		Yeah, David, you were saying it should be invisible.
unidentified		I don't understand why you said that.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, when you had written me one of your letters, you had actually made the comment to me that it was so thin, and I later found on a report on NASA's website that the reason it was so thick looking was because it was a charged ionized gas that formed around the tether.
unidentified		You never saw that on NASA website, do you?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		No, I know exactly where that is, and I have the report, so that's there.
unidentified		No, what you're seeing there is just the on the Viticon, on the tube, you're just seeing the, what do you call them, the images, just the bits on there.
unidentified		And they get wider because it's a digital screen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But James, that was, the tether was glowing.
unidentified		No, the tether was sunlit.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, according to the report, it had a sheath of gas around it, and I have that actual report from NASA's website.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		And also, it's not a very important thing.
unidentified		You better send that to me, David, because I don't believe it.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll say that.
unidentified		I watched the tether.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I watched the mission.
unidentified		None of what you're saying about the mission is anything remotely similar to reality.
		And anybody can verify that by checking on all the open data.
		You throw words around like zero-point energy on the tether or charged ions causing electric sparks.
		That's just gobbledygook, duck.
		You just throw words around because I guess you want to impress people, but those kind of words don't apply to the tether had a spark.
		The tether had a spark, David, because it was a wire moving through a magnetic field, the Earth's magnetic field.
		That created the charge on it.
		Nothing to do with zero-point energy.
		You made that up.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't make it up, James.
		It's on the company called Tethers Unlimited that makes tethers.
		I researched the data on why they made the tether.
		There's different reasons they make tethers, but the idea was to produce energy for the space station, potentially for the space station.
unidentified		I took energy from the magnetic field of the Earth.
unidentified		Zero-point energy has nothing to do with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		James?
unidentified		You misunderstood.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		James.
unidentified		Hold on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on, everybody.
unidentified		Hold on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		James, one quick question.
		I remember distinctly NASA officially admitting that there was apparently far more energy than they expected.
		I mean, that's why it snapped, right?
unidentified		It had energy.
		That's right.
		And then the energy is created by a wire moving through a magnetic field at a high speed.
		It's called a motor.
		Well, in this case, the motor was the shuttle, and this wire strung out 20 kilometers and moving through the field.
		What happened is, and of course it snapped there just at the end.
		It wasn't an accident.
		It snapped there.
		That's where the insulation was rubbing on the pulleys.
		Eventually there was an arc there, and that arc just burned through the wire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but there still was more energy, according to NASA, than they expected, than they calculated.
unidentified		That's right.
		They just didn't know how much energy was going to be calculated.
		They reeled it out to find out.
		That's why you do these experiments, to find out how close your expectations are.
		But the energy was coming from electrodynamic energy, nothing to do with ions in the atmosphere or nothing to do with zero-point energy.
		It was purely a matter of electrodynamic energy.
		And it wasn't glowing.
		It was sunlit.
		And I've seen it.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I have the data on it being charged gas, and it's from NASA's website.
		I'm very, very certain of it.
		I have it.
unidentified		I don't believe it.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll send it to you, James.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I'll send you exactly where it is right off the bat.
unidentified		I don't believe it, David, because I never found you understand anything else.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I have it.
		I have it.
		And I'm not going to say that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, hold it.
		Hold it.
		Hold it, everybody.
		Try one at a time.
		Otherwise, we can't hear you.
		All right.
		Best you can.
unidentified		You know, Dr. Newt is a very kind man there, and he's assigned your letters.
		You said so yourself.
		He's the guy they gave the flat earth people to.
		And he would send polite letters to people and talk to them.
		And they sent you to him, too.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Joe Newt confirmed with me that the black and white cameras on the shuttle look into the near-ultraviolet spectrum.
		And I actually found from Department of Defense, I was a defense contractor myself, so I know how to research on defense, the company that makes the sensor that allows the shuttle camera, the black and white camera, to see into the near-ultraviolet and the infrared spectrum, as well as the visible.
		They sometimes retrofit black and white cameras to see in infrared, sometimes into the near-ultraviolet, and the sensors allow them not to see into X-rays and gamma rays, but are sensitive to X-rays and gamma-ray energy with special sensors.
unidentified		These are off-the-shelf closed-circuit TVs.
unidentified		They stick them in there to watch the operations of the payload day, watch the payloads, and they turn them on at night sometimes to look for thunderstorms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These are off-the-shelf cameras?
unidentified		Sure, they're off-the-shelf.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		No, this isn't.
		I've got all the data on this from NASA.
		I've got Joe News.
		He even helped me with it.
		He confirmed with me.
		So whatever you're saying, I'm just going to have to send you emails of all this data that I got directly from NASA and the other.
unidentified		Put it on your website because that's where people are going to look for it.
		Yeah.
		Next to the pictures there.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's all in my book.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I mean, the details, the finest details from You're one, and I've gotten different answers.
unidentified		Zero-point energy on the tether.
unidentified		Was that told to you by someone at NASA?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Quantum.
		I'm not going to go into, you know, with you arguing what zero-point energy is because it's something that NASA is spending money and research on right now.
		It's something they very much believe in.
unidentified		No, you're dodging, David.
		You're dodging.
		I don't care about the research.
		I know it's doing research.
		I'm talking about a tether experiment.
		You attributed that energy on the tether that caused the line to snap in 96 to zero-point energy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But why is it not possible?
unidentified		You're confused.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		James, why is it not possible that with the tremendous excessive energy they had on that tether, that at least one possibility is that some of it could have been what's called zero-point energy?
unidentified		Well, sure.
		Some of it could be steam energy, and some of it could be windmill energy, and some of it could be gerbil energy.
		It's always possible.
		There's no need for it.
		David, you say when they got the satellite back, they found the stuff had been reset in the satellite's computer?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		That's from United Press International, and that was an article ran in February 1998.
		They have it right in front of me.
		I mean, February 1996.
unidentified		Do you have it right in front of you?
		Does it say they got the satellite back?
		Because they didn't get the satellite back.
		They never did.
		They never got it back.
		I just misunderstand it.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, when they lost contact.
		It says first radio signals from the satellite caused engineers some surprise.
		The configuration of several systems had changed from when natural.
		With the satellite.
		Well, they made contact.
		They remade contact with it.
unidentified		Okay, well, you were unclear about that.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, that's a minor point, but they were able to determine that the nitrogen fuel tank was empty, the steering threshold valves were open, a gyroscope that had been left on was powered off, while two other gyroscopes remained on.
unidentified		And how does all this equipment get controlled from the shuttle?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Through the tether.
unidentified		But what?
unidentified		By sending notes down the tether or sending electrical signals down the tether?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, it broke.
unidentified		Yeah.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		So have they lost the...
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, anyways, this is going into how those instruments and knobs were turned.
unidentified		Does it say knobs were turned?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		A thruster valve was emptied, a valve.
unidentified		Did it say knobs were turned?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm assuming a valve has been.
unidentified		You're assuming, right?
		You said a lot of things you've been assuming could make a better story.
		But you're not reading your source materials very well, and you're not communicating very accurately.
		you're making a better story with all these extra details you're making up this is right out of this I am not sure.
		No, you said knobs are turned, and now they're not even.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Just by the tone of the letters you sent to me in comparison to Lou Frank and Joe Newt and other people at NASA I've talked to who are very open and technical with me, you tend to try to come out and just kind of slam everything kind of like a boxer.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		But you don't seem to have to be able to.
unidentified		What have I brought up in the past 10 minutes that that's unfair?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		What then?
unidentified		What have I brought up in the last 10 minutes?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, you just said to me that the nitrogen, sorry, the gas around the tether wasn't ionized, and that wasn't what caused it to glow.
		And I have it clearly in their report.
		Very clearly.
		And you're saying it doesn't exist.
unidentified		Well, there's a lot of information.
unidentified		The picture on the television, it's a picture of the sunlit tether.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Remember on the video it says the tether seems to resemble a much wider strand than we'd expect.
		Can you describe what you're seeing?
		That was from ground control.
		No one answered why the tether appeared wider than they would expect.
		And then later in the report, which is in the dailies, on NASA's website, they describe the gas becoming ionized around it and giving it a luminous effect.
		That's in the report.
		I mean, there is so much information at NASA that not everybody knows.
		I don't expect you to know everything, and there's no way you can tell me that you know everything about every mission.
		It's just not possible.
		Joe News has candidly admitted to me that he does not know everything about every mission.
		Nobody does.
unidentified		How about the tether?
		We saw the tether.
		We worked the mission.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		You couldn't have saw it when it was flying over the west coast of Northern Africa, or could you?
unidentified		I saw it flying over Texas.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, when this event happened, it was over the west coast of Northern Africa, and that's stated on the audio when the audio clip.
		Someone is speaking.
		I'm pretty certain it's from one of the astronauts that we are the, or no, actually, it's probably from ground control that we are over the west coast of Northern Africa.
		You couldn't have seen it then.
		I can't imagine how you would have unless you were over somewhere on the Earth.
unidentified		That's what we saw on television.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		What then?
unidentified		We saw it on television.
unidentified		I saw the images.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we saw the images and then we saw the swarm, what is now called the swarm that may be, you know, you're debunking and you have that right.
unidentified		The water gods were serious, yeah.
unidentified		What do we have to do with the Brookings report?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I don't believe personally.
unidentified		I've never heard of the Brookings report.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, we won't go there if you haven't heard of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		James, you've never heard of the Brookings report.
unidentified		I have, not at work.
unidentified		I have in my space age mythology interests, but that's nothing that's a problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that Brookings is mythological?
unidentified		I think it's a real report.
unidentified		It's one of 10,000 or 20,000 reports the government's paid for the past 40 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And are you aware of the conclusions reached in that report?
unidentified		Sure.
		They said people would freak out if they heard that there's news of aliens, so we shouldn't tell them.
		Exactly.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		There's the point that I wanted to make.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Now, considering...
unidentified		How about all the other reports that says we should tell them?
		Well, considering...
		You can pick any report you want and you tie this all together to the Dogon and to the water gods of Sirius and to the poor ice steroids that are coming in that these poor scientists are looking for like Lou Frank.
		And you put it all into this great big picture, but you do it by just cutting off corners that don't fit.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		That's all hearsay, what you're saying, James.
		And I think the way you're presenting this is you are trying to defend NASA in not allowing disclosure to happen.
		I personally don't trust you because of who you work for.
		If you came out to me and said that there was a UFO, I don't even believe that it was true.
unidentified		Who do I work for, David?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		You're an associate of NASA.
unidentified		David, I work myself.
unidentified		I'm an independent writer.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		You're an associate.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I remember in your letter, you said you finished working for them in 97.
unidentified		That's right.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		You're an associate.
		And a long time associate at that.
		I don't believe that you would allow disclosure to happen.
		So anything that you say...
unidentified		You said that Franklin Chang got interested in this plasma engine after the tether flight.
unidentified		Is that what you said?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		No, I said that he developed the Pulse Plasma.
		I actually researched his patents.
		He had an earlier design back in...
		And Franklin Chang has flown on a number of missions.
		He may have seen these things before out there, but his pulse plasma rocket...
		What?
unidentified		He may not have.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		He may or may not have.
		As far as I'm concerned and the world's concerned, he may have.
		And as far as you're concerned, you're saying you're defundering.
unidentified		There's a couple things that we have to realize about the circles with a notch.
unidentified		First, the picture you have from England doesn't have a notch cut out of it.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		It does.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		The woman who held the camera said it has a bite out of the side of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does seem to have an indentation in it.
unidentified		He actually denied it in the literature.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		He says it has a bite out of the side.
		Now, if you can't see it because it's on an angle, look closely.
		It's there, but she's not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay, what are you looking at?
unidentified		The notches on the pictures of these objects, I think that the good explanation for them is that they were out-of-focus point-light sources of some sort.
		And when they get out of focus, they make these notches.
		All the notches tend to be oriented in the same direction.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		No, they're all right about the screen.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		They're all in different directions.
unidentified		Depending on where they are in the screen, David, shut up, David.
		Depending on where they are on the screen, they have the same orientation.
		As things move across the screen, the orientation of the notch changes.
		But if you were to take a look at a whole bunch of these and map each one, you'd see that in the lower left-hand corner of the screen, the notch is in one quadrant, in the upper left-hand corner, the notch points another way.
		And that clearly shows the notches of some kind of camera artifact.
		And you also can show that because a few hours later is a nice shot of a whole field of discs with notches in them.
		And you watch it for a few minutes, and suddenly it focuses, and you see it's a constellation, some stars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, gentlemen.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I disagree completely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know you do.
unidentified		You haven't seen that vision, but you don't want to show people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gentlemen, I doubt the show.
		Gentlemen, time, time, time.
		Everybody, hold on.
		We'll be right back from the high desert.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast AM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ex-NASA guy, David Sarita.
		The objects we're looking at on the website.
		And a bit of a discussion underway.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		These dreams are made of the end Who am I to disagree?
		I travel the world in the seven seas Everybody is looking for something.
		Some of them want to use you.
		Come on, baby, I'm one to get used by you.
		Feeling alright?
		Little driving on a Saturday night.
		Ooh.
		Come walk me Running down The day's way Music Get in with me Show a smile for people to me I'm troubled and tired Got another way to get right
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-line callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell from Bart Kingdom of 9.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be me.
		Good morning, everybody.
		I'm curious.
		Somebody's got a dictionary handy out there.
		Look up the word debunker for me.
		Debunker.
unidentified		What does debunker mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How does the dictionary define debunker?
		Fast blast it, Tumi, and we'll get it on the air here.
		I'm very curious.
		Debunker.
		Tell me which dictionary you got it from, and just type out the explanation and send it to me in a fast blast.
		I want to ask James about the same thing.
		We've got James Oberk here.
		He's a NASA mission control veteran.
		A buff on space mythology in a debunker.
		I'm not so sure about debunker.
		David V. Sarita has been my guest, oh, I don't know, for over a couple of hours now, and we're talking about some incredible photographs that David's got up there.
		Photographs that seem to show a large craft near the tether.
		Now, wait a minute.
		We might have it here.
		Debunker.
		To show up a claim or theory as false.
unidentified		To show up a claim or theory as false.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it doesn't say in there necessarily with facts.
		It just says to do that, to make it appear false.
		We'll ask James how he describes it here in a moment.
		Get some more from Fast Blast.
		Stay right where you are.
unidentified		All right, well, let's see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Debunker, to disprove, to expose or ridicule the falseness, sham, or exaggerated claims to debunk a supposed miracle drug, for example.
		Generally, though, to expose the sham or falseness of.
		Is that a dictionary explanation that you would, definition you would be happy with, James?
		Wait a minute.
		There you are, James.
unidentified		The real charter goes back to the Robertson panel.
		Oh, I shouldn't have said that.
		That's my mistake.
		Well, you want to clear away what...
		And it's just, as you know, just difficult to get to the signals.
		And if there's any distractions, it tends to people get lost in the distractions.
		If I didn't think there could be useful things found in these kind of examinations, I wouldn't spend time on it.
		And the problem is with a sincere young man like David here is that everything he says about physics is contrary to what I know about physics and water in space as an example.
		We had a report from the current channel mission.
		A pilot reported on the way up into space, he says, wow, we saw at about Mach 23 out the corner of our eye some ice particles whizzing by, pretty spectacular.
		And David somehow couldn't believe this.
		I'd like to hear him explain why he doesn't believe they saw ice particles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		David?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I'd like to read a letter from Lou Frank to me, who is a National Space Act award-winning astrophysicist who has seen the tether and has seen the videos.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		It's a very short letter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I'll read it to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Dear David, I have received your second video and letter dated the 2nd of December, 1999.
		I find the contents of both videos fascinating.
		There are several objects which may be small comets, which are the water balls, in the videos.
		Other phenomena regarding the tether being recorded in the videos are not easily explained.
		Several of us have examined the videos many times.
		I am very interested in speaking with you on the phone concerning the contents of the videos.
		This is Lou Frank, who is the principal investigator with the plasma instrumentation on the Galileo mission to Jupiter.
		Several of our spacecraft that are roaming the solar system right now, Lou Frank is in charge of.
		He's a brilliant astrophysicist who many times, which I read in his data, has had to eliminate the hypothesis that debris are in front of the camera lens.
		And he does it brilliantly.
		And he actually eliminates that in his own investigation into these new phenomena that he's discovering.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, then, James.
unidentified		somebody at that level is not the first half of the earth is he in charge of uh...
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		he is uh...
		i i'm quoting he's he's in charge of the plasma instrumentation on the You said he was in charge of the spacecraft.
		No, I said he was in charge of the plasma.
		You must have misheard me or I said the word too quickly.
		He's in charge of the planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold it.
		Let's not get hung up in semantics.
		For accuracy.
		All right, for accuracy, fine.
		But this is obviously somebody of pretty big heavyweight who is agreeing this certainly is extremely anomalous.
		You wouldn't even go that far, James.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Why would...
unidentified		And Frank didn't work with the space shuttle.
		So he's certainly understandable why he'd be puzzled like everyone else is puzzled, because they are extraordinary pictures.
		They are very impressive visual images.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then why don't you allow for the possibility that they might be something other than what you're proffering here?
unidentified		Well, because there are other pictures that go with them that won't be shown on David's website or won't be shown in the smoking gun videos.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to have all of the video uncut, and I'm willing to show it.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I just don't have a way of proliferating it to the public.
unidentified		The video that shows stars, a star field going out of focus and appearing as a set of disks with notches in them.
unidentified		You got that video, too?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a very radical interpretation of what you're saying.
		James, my stepfather is also from Texas and gave me a telescope when I was nine years old.
		I've been a professional photographer on the side for 20 years.
		No, I'm going to go back to it.
		I have been looking through lenses in telescopes and video cameras and other cameras for 20 years.
		I have never seen the apparitions of these airy discs with square notches in my life.
		I've never seen also an airy disc appear to go behind a distant background object, which is called a field reversal effect.
		I have never seen it.
		I don't know how you can say that these discs are passing in front of the tether when they're clearly passing behind it.
unidentified		Well, because of the visual characteristics of the camera.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		You're doing semantics to try to get out of it.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I've heard all the arguments.
unidentified		These cameras are regular off-the-shelf cameras designed to watch mechanical things in the payload day.
unidentified		They're not scientific instruments.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		They are not off-the-shelf cameras.
		I've got that confirmed from Joe Newton.
		I actually know the company who makes the sensors.
		So you're just going to steer the audience in a direction that is not true.
unidentified		The camera's been flying on the trail for 20 years, and I've been in mission control watching the video from them for that long.
		And we've seen what happens with bright objects in this particular kind of Vidicon, because it's got an image intensifier, and especially in low light levels, it can get over bright in the middle of a bright white field.
		And just to prevent burnout, the Vidicon, the center...
		...be-made by plastic grains that are warm in the category...
		...and we've seen what happens with bright objects in this particular kind of way.
		And we've seen what happens with bright objects in this particular kind of way.
		...
		That universe may have planned before.
		Our universe may have simply popped its existence out of nothing because it doesn't seem very close to us.
		That's right.
		That surprising an enormous amount of articles in the New York Times, Time Magazine, Music Magazine.
		There could be another universe perhaps a millimeter away from our universe.
		Now, remember the novel The Invisible Man?
		Yes.
		If you read H. G. Wells' novel, how did the man become invisible?
		Well, he was blown into the form of the man at hyperspace, and he hovered about an inch off our universe.
		Now, think about it.
		If you're hovering an inch off our universe, you're invisible.
		Light would go right underneath you.
		You could look down and see our universe, but the people in our universe couldn't see you.
		And so that's why he was invisible.
		Would there be, conceivably, another universe as populated as this one and very much light or very much different from this one?
		Well, we don't know.
		However, the speculation is that if there's another bubble that is a millimeter away from our bubble, he would feel its gravity.
		It would be another universe that would be invisible just like the invisible man.
		So it could be a paradigm for dark matter.
		Of course, this is still wild speculation.
		But some of the people that it might be are seriously proposing this as a model for dark matter.
		That dark matter is invisible, but it has gravity.
		Just like another alternate universe that's about a millimeter away from ours would be invisible and light goes underneath it.
		But it would have gravity.
		That gravity goes across extra points.
		But I'm wondering if what's the greatest likelihood?
		If we were to find out, would we be learning, looking back at this in an invisible, or would we be in a completely alternate place?
		We would be in a completely opposite place.
		I could say with a lot of physical theory.
		Currently we think that the meta law that is at the law of all these bubbles is something called hypothesis theory, the theory of 10-dimensional hyperplane.
		We think that the meta theory that governs all these bubbles is secondary.
		However, there are many solutions of secondary millions of them.
		Each one perhaps corresponds to one of these bubbles.
		Now in these other bubbles, they may look like different stars.
		They may have protons that decay very rapidly, so there's no DNA.
		However, maybe there's a universe that has one quantum event different from our universe.
		Maybe a cosmic ray went through Hitler's mother, and Hitler was never born because of one cosmic ray that caused a miscarriage in Hitler's mother.
		That universe is only one quantum event different from our universe, except they never had World War II.
		If these things are existing, if you're not going to be able to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		gentlemen, I've got to break in for a second.
		Gentlemen, hold on.
		I've got to break in for a second.
		I am just told by Master Control, you're not going to believe this, or maybe, David, you will.
		For the second time in all the years that I've been in broadcasting, about three minutes ago or four minutes ago, we lost our satellite.
		We actually lost our satellite.
		It would appear we lost our satellite.
		I've never had this happen before.
		We're now back on the air.
		I've connected this by what's called an ISDN line, which is a secondary way of getting the signal from where I am to the network.
		So we lost about the last three or four minutes of discussion between the two.
		So backtrack a little bit, gentlemen.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Okay, it was me talking.
		Basically, I was saying that NASA used ultraviolet cameras.
		Lou Frank was using ultraviolet cameras on the DE spacecraft back in 1985.
		He's now using the Polaris satellite, which has a much better ultraviolet camera on it, to see his alleged water balls, which are only appearing in the ultraviolet spectrum.
		Joe Newt wrote me and said, one of the confusing things about Lou Frank's discovery is they're not visible in the visible spectrum and the infrared spectrum, which they should be, according to their data.
		The fact that they're seeing an object that only appears in the ultraviolet is consistent with the idea that I'm hypothetically saying here, that these UFOs are only appearing in the ultraviolet, which is a wavelength higher than the human eye can see.
		So to answer James' question, why didn't people see them from the ground?
		One, they were either too far away.
		Two, the tether and satellite was over the west coast of northern Africa.
		Nobody in North America would have seen it.
		And three, they may have been invisible to the astronauts naked eye or not.
		The astronauts, if they did not see them with their naked eye and saw them through the camera, they also may have been confused and thought perhaps they were debris or they didn't know what they were because they were not visible to the naked eye.
unidentified		One, two, three, David.
		One, they're too far away.
		You're saying they're miles wide, two miles, maybe five miles wide.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Again, the length of the tether.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		12 mile length of the tether.
unidentified		And they're 200 miles up.
		So do the math.
		How wide in the sky would that be?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		It's a long ways away.
unidentified		And something two or three miles wide?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think you would see it.
unidentified		Well, I'll do the math for you then.
		It's about half a degree.
		And that's the size of the full moon.
		So I think something the size of the full moon would be visible.
		So too far away, number one, that doesn't work.
		Number two, you're saying people in North America couldn't see it because it's not a very good thing.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		This would be a very lengthy conversation.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		But again, if they're only visible in the ultraviolet, you would not see them nowhere.
unidentified		They gave me three reasons.
		I'm going through them.
		One, two, three.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Number one reason, it doesn't work because they are, in fact, plenty big enough.
unidentified		They'd be the size of a full moon in the sky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Although, James, it does work if you consider that they're seen in the ultraviolet.
unidentified		Well, that was his third.
		Right.
		We're working through the list from the beginning.
		All right, but second reason you said no one could see it over West Africa because it's too far from North America.
		Well, so what?
		How about people in West Africa?
		So, number two, that's unreasonable.
		Now, as far as being visible in the ultraviolet, that's magic.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		It's not magic.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Lou Frank is seeing something on the ultraviolet.
unidentified		Well, and what other people say?
		Is that Lou Frank's observations accepted?
		Or are they questioning?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Is anybody's new ideas accepted?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Everybody argues.
unidentified		I mean, I don't remember.
		Okay, Galileo.
		They laughed at Galileo, they laughed at Lou Frank, and they're laughing at you.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Do you think they're laughing at Lou Frank?
unidentified		Well, people don't believe Lou Frank because they don't believe that.
unidentified		No, what?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		They didn't believe Tesla.
		They didn't believe a lot of great scientists when they first came up with new discoveries.
		That doesn't mean anything to me.
		You think they're laughing at a National Space Act Award-winning astrophysicist?
		Because even Joe Newth admits to me that they are seeing these things in the ultraviolet.
		He says that most scientists agree that Frank is observing something in capital letters, but they just don't know what it is yet.
		Now, I don't think that's laughing at him.
		I think that's acknowledging that he's seeing something.
		They just disagree about what he's actually seeing.
unidentified		It's worth taking a look because if we only see what we expect, there's no use in going and look.
		So I agree that Frank and others should be looking for strange things.
		And so we have no argument there.
		People should go look up this stuff and see how the real scientific debate goes, where actual instrumentation is measured, where people look at observations, try and explain them, and, like you said, also look for other things like, what would happen if these objects really were there?
		Wouldn't they be hitting artificial satellites?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Not if they're intelligently directed.
unidentified		And not if they're not there.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, theoretically, something that you can't see isn't there, but if it's there in the ultraviolet, it's there.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		You just can't see it.
unidentified		Well, they're not observing the ice in the ultraviolet.
unidentified		observing a water cloud.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		He doesn't know for certain.
		He's hypothetically saying there are water and water clouds.
		I have all of his data right down to the kilo reliance, the measurements on the light, everything.
		I've read all of it.
		And he doesn't, he's not 100% arrogant in saying these are definitely water.
		He just believes they're not.
unidentified		Why don't you think that ice can survive on a space shuttle or in space?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		In the dark side of space, yes, but on the sunny side, the radiation would be too intense.
		It would burn up the ice crystals.
		And Newt agreed with me on that.
unidentified		And do what to the ice?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		It should melt in the sun, in the presence of the sun.
		The ultraviolet light is a great measurement hotter than the light that we get down here on the Earth.
		And we know how hot it can be in Death Valley in August.
		The ultraviolet light temperature is extremely high.
		It would melt the ice extremely fast, and water balls traveling from distant portions of the Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As a comet burns as it approaches our sun, same theory, James.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		It burns up.
unidentified		Yeah, very slowly and passes the sun lots of times.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Not really.
unidentified		It's actually a problem on the space shuttle.
		Occasionally there'd be ice built up around some of the vents, and then one of the wastewater dumps they had this three or four foot long icicle built up there, and they couldn't get it to melt.
		They were turning to the sun and just wouldn't melt.
		So I don't understand this idea about ice vaporizing in the intense sunlight.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, I got Joe News to agree with me with that, and that's the head of astrochemistry at NASA.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I'm not going to argue with you with things that happen on ice on the shuttle itself that may have been shaded from the sun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we didn't saw that.
unidentified		We didn't think of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I'm not going to go into that conversation.
		I'm only going to go into the hypothesis.
		And again, I've had many scientist teachers that I've run the same question by about ICE surviving in space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gentlemen, hold it, hold it.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		Hold on, both of you.
		Stand by.
		We have lost our satellite, and this is only the second time that's ever happened in years and years and years.
		And it always occurs during an absolutely brilliant conversation.
		Now, I'm not saying that somebody took our satellite away, but...
		You're no good, you're no good Really weird stuff, folks.
		I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast A.M. I broke the heart gentle and true.
		I broke the heart of someone like you.
		Come on.
		Come on.
		I tried to reach for you, but you have closed your mind.
		Whatever happened to our love, I wish I had to stay tonight.
		Thank you.
		How long you gave me nothing to save me, it's all it When you're gone, how can I even try to go on?
		When you're gone, go and go, how can I carry on?
		Wanna take a ride?
		Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach Art at area code 775-727-1222.
		Or call the wildcard line at 775-727-1295.
		To talk with ART on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator at Adventile 800-893-0903.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm telling you something really strange is going on.
		Really strange.
		Only two times in all the years that I've broadcast this program have we apparently lost satellite.
		The fit sync rate, all the information on the uplink in the other room from me, indicates to me that there's no satellite there.
		The people at the satellite uplink location say of the KU-band signals, ours is the only one that dropped.
		We're still coming to you on what's called ISDN, which is a landline connection, as I don't know.
		It's kind of like we're either being interfered with or somebody actually is tampering with the transponder or the transponder we're on is having trouble.
		It's very hard to determine what's going on right now, but in the middle of a pretty critical conversation, it went down like a lead balloon.
		That's all I can tell you.
		We're looking into it.
		All right, once again, back to my two guests, and they're both doing very well, I think.
		David Serrita, who has described and shows us photographs of a parent craft that have been photographed by NASA, and somebody who worked for NASA, was a NASA mission control veteran, a buff on space age mythology, and a debunker.
		And we're getting some pretty interesting dictionary definitions of debunker.
		For example, arrogance, a feeling or an impression of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or presumptuous claims.
		Nope, nope, nope, nope, not me, not me.
		Not you, huh?
		All right, gentlemen, you're both back on the air.
unidentified		We're watching TV here in the corner of my room from the space station, just doing another spacewalk up there.
unidentified		And that's just extraordinary getting that station together, looking at the structure being built.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I'm very envious of those guys up there.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I've always wanted to be up there myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does it seem to you, James, unlikely that there would be extraterrestrial life visiting Earth?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does that seem like an unlikely assumption?
unidentified		I think it's a reasonable assumption that life should be out there and some would be curious and would travel or send signals.
		I think there's nothing implausible about that at all.
		And what I find most frustrating, and that's why I stay interested in the subject, is that it might be tough to recognize the signal.
		And if we bury the signal with too much noise, we'd never be able to tell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but is it not also possible that the camera viticons that you spoke of a little while ago, and I think properly described the way they might react to a bright object, particularly in a low-light situation or maybe at a terminator situation, I understand all that, but it would also be so easy to explain away the real thing that would be the same scenario.
unidentified		It wouldn't, because you'd see something that would be big.
		You'd see something that would be either more than just a dot or a circle.
		The circular stuff, and the reason I suspect that that's a camera artifact is twofold.
		First, we've seen it in other scenes, including from that flight, In which the camera focus varies and turns out that we're looking at a star field and goes out of focus and shows a bunch of circles with funny little notches in them.
		And the second reason I think those notches are camera artifact and not real physical objects is that as the objects move across the screen, when the screen is full of these dots and the tether is in view, the notch moves around the circle.
		It takes different positions as the object moves, but it takes the same clock position for the same screen position.
		And as each object moves from one corner to another and followed by another one, the notches go through the same pattern.
		And David can try that too.
		I've actually tried that, and I didn't find that to be true.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		But I think you just made a great point there, James.
		I wanted to highlight it that as far as detecting an extraterrestrial craft, going back to what Earl Van Landingham, who I don't know if you know Earl, do you know him?
		I heard the name, but he's now the head of Office of Space Access and Technology, and he was involved with the fusion project way back when I was working on it with Dr. Bogan Maglish from MIT.
		Now, he said to me, if a UFO was coming from another star system, it would be radiating with such tremendous energy.
		Now, when we consider the electromagnetic spectrum and that SETI is looking way down in the radio spectrum, which is the low end of the electromagnetic spectrum, and NASA is building all of these new cameras, including Orpheus SPAS-2, which you may have heard of, are now able to see into extreme ultraviolet high energy phenomenon appear in the higher spectrum of the electromagnetic spectrum.
		Now our cameras are able to see.
unidentified		It flew about five years ago and it's been taken apart.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Orpheus?
unidentified		Yeah.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, 97 is when.
		Yeah, they're building more and more of these far-ultraviolet explorer cameras.
		Now, Max Planck, the godfather of quantum physics, is the one who said that the higher you went in the electromagnetic spectrum, the more energy was present.
		Now, when you consider the energy it takes to travel great distances in space, it would seem to me the most likely place to be looking for extraterrestrial contact, and based on what Earl Van Menningham said, would be in the upper spectrum of light rather way down in radio where SETI is looking.
		I think that there's no coincidence in understanding quantum physics that NASA is building cameras that can see into these upper spectrum, and that is where we should hopefully detect a signal of extremely high energy.
unidentified		Well, you're looking at two separate phenomena here.
		We're talking about signals from possibly other star systems that across interstellar distances.
		And in that case, radio is where they've been looking, mostly because that's where they could see.
		But you know, James, looking for traces of vehicles within the solar system, then there's the second question, what kind of energies would they be radiating?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		James, there is news now that SETI is setting their sights away from the radio spectrum, and they're beginning to look in other spectrums, light and above.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you aware of that, James?
unidentified		Yeah, they're looking for laser pulses as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if they're looking in other spectrums, then doesn't it make sense that if we're looking for something nearby, it may well also be in another spectrum, one we don't see so readily?
unidentified		No, it doesn't, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why not?
unidentified		We're talking about two different things.
		We're talking about artificial signals being sent or possibly leakage from other civilizations, which is a reasonable thing to look for, versus the byproducts of propulsion vehicles, propulsion that's approaching our solar system or working within the solar system.
		And it's just two different sets of physics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But why would we assume that a propulsion system, an extraterrestrial propulsion system, or a craft for that matter, would be readily visible in the spectrum that the eye can perceive?
		Why would we assume that?
		Wouldn't that be as dangerous an assumption as SETI assuming they're going to get a radio signal?
unidentified		Well, right.
		Don't UFOs glow at night?
		I mean, they turn the running lights on so people can see them?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's, I mean, sometimes they're seen in the visible light spectrum.
		And yes, in a lot of the craft, the whole craft seems to be glowing with light, which to me suggests that the entire mass of the craft is vibrating at a very high frequency.
		There's a scientist in Canada who...
		Well, actually, it gets into quantum physics.
		I don't know if you know Article 2.
unidentified		It gets into quantum jargon.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me, Art, do you know who John Hutchinson is?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		John Hutchinson is a zero-point energy physicist who has given demonstrations to major defense contractors in the United States.
		I personally have someone at NASA looking at his research right now.
		I can't name them on the air.
		But he is bombarding mass with high-frequency energy and causing mass to levitate.
		He's actually levitated a 90, 70-pound cannonball by bombarding the mass of the cannonball with high-frequency energy radiating from Tesla coils.
		And he's transforming the mass into a high-frequency state.
		He told me just a couple of days ago that he has on camera mass reaching such high-frequency states that it disappears from the view of the camera, which means the mass is actually going into another spectrum.
		And when you see, when I saw a UFO in Berkeley in 1968, it disappeared into the invisible spectrum.
		Now, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
		In theory, it's exactly what it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It just means you're not seeing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		James, you think that's all bunk, right?
unidentified		I think it's bunked.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, John Hutchinson's work has had, Lockheed Martin has come and studied his work, and they have witnessed his phenomena.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		It's something you probably don't know much about, so it's not worth arguing with you.
unidentified		I'll read about it when he gets his Nobel Prize.
unidentified		Well, then you'll be the last to know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		James, why is it not reasonable to believe that the object photographed near the tether that we've got on the website, the one that we can look at and I'll talk about, and the one seen in England, did you get an opportunity to see that, James?
unidentified		Sure did.
		Sure did.
		I can get those pictures with my own video camera.
		Just put the focus back down to out of range.
		The reason it can look the same is if it's your camera artifacts.
		Cameras have similar malfunctions and are similar operating ranges.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In space and on Earth.
unidentified		Sure.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, would you do that, Porth?
		Would you go and take your camera and take a picture of whatever you want and send it and do an identical match with an I mean, it's kind of hard to ask you to do that because you could easily run it through Photoshop and do some rendering.
		I believe.
unidentified		Okay, I'll pass it.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		You know, I really don't know what you're saying.
		You're saying something there that I don't even know if you can validate.
		You're saying this woman in England did not see what she and other witnesses saw with her naked eye, which they described as an enormous object hovering above the trees with a bite out of the side and a hole in the middle and it was pulsing.
unidentified		What British UFO group has checked that out?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		What's that?
unidentified		What British UFO group has researched that?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		It's been on the BBC website and BBC News and Channel.
unidentified		I'm sorry.
		You know better than that.
		You read BBC reports.
		You read the report of that Russian airfield that got shut down by UFOs back in January.
		The kind of stuff that goes out over the news media.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		You're a debunker.
		You know, you're an associate of NASA and you work with the Brookings Report.
		You're going to debunk all this stuff.
unidentified		So I don't really think, you know, personally, I have an honest opinion about it.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, you may have an honest opinion, but I don't know.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		You know, you're trying to debunk a lot of UFO stuff, and you're a heavyweight on that side.
unidentified		I don't know.
unidentified		There's a lot of targets out there.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		What then?
unidentified		There's a lot of bunk out there that needs debunking.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're the man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you're the man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that what you're actively seeking to do, James, under any circumstances, or do you actually have an open mind?
unidentified		If you look at the stuff I've written and that international essay contest I won back in 79 on science of ufology, you can see where I say quite clearly that if there's a signal out there to be detected, people need to be a lot more stringent about their judgment of evidence so that they can create a persuasive case.
unidentified		And that right now the UFO field is drowning in bunk and couldn't tell a real genuine UFO if it showed up and zapped them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but if you're debunking everything, don't you run the same risk?
unidentified		I don't debunk everything.
unidentified		I debunk things that I know about and I can research, like spaceflight, which David doesn't appear to know about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But my point is that if you're actively debunking everything, and you do seem to be, or at least listening to you, don't you run the same risk of not recognizing one if it hits you in the nose?
unidentified		Well, depends how hard it hits.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		James Olberg, what do you think of the astronauts who have come forward and have made statements about saying, you know, not very clearly, but about things that they think they've seen out there?
unidentified		Well, for example.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, for example, Edgar Mitchell being a proponent of UFO.
unidentified		Edgar Mitchell said he didn't see anything out there.
unidentified		Edgar Mitchell said he did not see anything unusual on his space flights.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		What do you think of John Glenn's Fireflies and also John Glenn appearing on space?
unidentified		John Glenn's Fireflies.
unidentified		Great scene.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that that was urine?
unidentified		No, who said it was urine?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not saying it was.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I'm saying what do you think it was?
unidentified		But why'd you bring urine up?
unidentified		Is this the other thing?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, because I think in one of your emails to me, I mentioned a urine dump.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do think NASA also said that.
unidentified		David, you just...
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I got emails from you, America.
		I got about probably 20 or 30 emails from you, somewhere around there.
		Maybe two.
unidentified		That's right.
unidentified		So you have an excuse to make things up and misunderstand things.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll look for the email where you're going to get it.
unidentified		Everybody knows what the fireflies were on Glenn's flight.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		What were they?
unidentified		It's water coming off his flash evaporator.
		Carpenter discovered that in his next flight because he could pound on the wall next to the flash evaporator and he could create blizzards by just pounding on the wall.
		The spacecraft is cooled by having a small amount of water sprayed against the cooling loops outside.
		And they flash into ice, they absorb the heat from these loops and dissipate the heat from the electronics in the capsule.
		It's a very simple, very standard piece of equipment.
		There's even one on the shuttle, the flash evaporator, and on the Russian spacecraft, too.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		That all sounds fancy and nice.
		Now, what do you think of Glenn's statement on Fraser?
		Do you think it was merely comical and unquantified?
unidentified		I think Glenn was making a script that he was given to read, was making fun of people who thought that what he was saying might be true.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Why would a senator appear on a Hollywood TV sitcom?
unidentified		I don't arrange his social schedules.
		And now you're talking different.
		But the words he used, obviously he was reading a script.
		And the stuff he described about the spaceflight was stuff that someone that scripted didn't know about spaceflight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, obviously it was a script.
		I agree with you.
		Everything on television is very scripted, but he certainly would not have read words that he didn't want to read, would he?
unidentified		He read the words because apparently he enjoyed being on the show, according to his interview.
unidentified		Well, and I think his comments were interpreted by most people in the country who saw it as making fun of people who believe that kind of stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gee, I didn't get that.
		Yeah, well...
		I didn't get that at all.
		At best, you could say, well, it was just comedy, but I don't see the ridicule angle to it.
unidentified		Well, it was a fun show.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		But a senator, a senator appearing on a TV show, that seems a little odd to me.
unidentified		I mean, there's other people who can go and make it out.
unidentified		Your judgment of what's odd and what's not is something I don't have any confidence in.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I don't have a lot of confidence in your personality.
unidentified		Now, you said there's a number of people, the astronauts said they saw strange things out there.
		You offered Ed Mitchell, as an example.
		It turns out Ed Mitchell never claimed to have seen strange things out there.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I've talked to Ed Mitchell about the Tether.
		I've had long conversations with him.
		And, you know, he is someone who initially took the side that you're taking.
		And he had, for me, he wasn't a very interesting person.
unidentified		Ed Mitchell's already a strikeout because you said there are astronauts who reported seeing strange things in space.
unidentified		Can I ask you For some examples, you gave me a question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there certainly are examples of astronauts who have said things that are obviously intended to have people thinking about what it might.
		Neil Armstrong, for example, at the White House, I'm sure you're familiar with what he said, James.
		And, you know, they're intended to get people thinking that there might be, that they should be reading between the lines.
unidentified		Well, I'm not that telepathic, Art.
		Maybe you're a little better at that.
		But I'm asking David, David stated that astronauts have said they've seen strange things in space.
		I've asked them for some examples.
		So far we've got...
		Is this called a backpedal, David?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, listen.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Now, I have written a book that shows both sides fairly, shows arguments for and against it.
unidentified		You didn't describe my feelings fairly when you were asked to.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I've quoted you verbatim.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Now, everybody gets their saying.
unidentified		A urine dump on the Glenn flight?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Whatever you emailed me, James, I just paste it.
		I don't edit it.
		It's there.
		So whatever you said, now, it's a fair investigation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		James, you wrote it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you say?
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		It's a fair investigation.
unidentified		Water coming off the fireflies.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		I have to look back in my files and look.
		I cut and pasted your statements for you, and Joe News and Lou Franks, and everybody got to have their say.
		And the UFO has just got to have their say.
		But really, we are all human beings.
		Your observations are no more valid than anybody else is who has the ability to make observations for the people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gentlemen.
		Well, listen, I think we've covered this pretty well.
		This was really interesting, and I want to thank you both.
		David and Sarita, thank you.
		James, thank you for being here.
unidentified		Watch out for your satellite.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Arch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, no kidding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, all.
david sereda ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We'll come back and do one hour of open lines.
		And boy, he's right about that.
		Watch out for our satellite.
		I'm going to see if I can figure out what's going on.
		Either we've had a never-before-had equipment failure, or we have lost a satellite.
		Fortunately, thinking this might happen someday, we installed another piece of backup equipment that has us on the air right now.
		But something's going on.
unidentified		That I don't know about the little tricks you play.
		You'll never see who enters me in my way.
		Well, here's a broke at you.
		You're gonna joke on it, too.

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