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March 12, 2001 - Art Bell
02:44:43
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - David Sereda, James Oberg - The Case for NASA's UFOs
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Time Text
♪ From the high desert in the great American Southwest,
I bid you all good evening and or good morning wherever you may be
across this great land of ours from the island of Guam in the West,
which now, by the way, has decided to take all five hours of the program.
Thank you very much, Guam.
Eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S.
Virgin Islands.
South into South America.
North all the way to the Poland.
Worldwide on the old internet.
This is Coast to Coast AM and I'm Art Bell and boy have we got a program for you this morning.
First of all, let me welcome W-R-A-Y in Princeton, Indiana.
1450 on the dial in Princeton, Indiana.
Welcome to the program.
As the affiliates continue to accumulate, headed rapidly now, of course, toward 500 affiliates.
On the way.
Now, in the next hour, we're going to have David Sirita here.
who has written a book called Evidence 2001, The Case for NASA's UFOs.
And this may be really, really interesting because James Oberg, who is a mission specialist and self-described debunker, may want to join the show as we proceed along in the morning.
Now, of course, we've got new photographs for you.
David brings new photographs, which he will explain, which are on the website.
And all of that comes up in the next hour.
I want to thank, as you know, Friday, uh, Friday night, Saturday morning, I was gone.
Summoned down to Marina Del Rey, California, Los Angeles, and, uh, the Radio and Records Talk Convention.
And anybody who was anybody was there.
At least it certainly seemed that way.
I mean, all the giants of the industry were there.
It was, it was, uh, pretty awesome, actually.
And a lot happened at Marina Del Rey that I want to tell you about, but you know me, normally I will go down with a camera, and I did take one.
Unfortunately, everybody else was taking photographs of me, and of a lot of people around me, and so I never got to take photographs.
Usually, I'm the guy with a camera to come back and give you a record of what went on, and I will give you a record, but I need to appeal To those who were at the R&R convention and took pictures to send them to me so I can put them on the website.
I know a million of you.
I mean, I was seeing orbs, you know, floating all over the place.
My eyes were just emasculated by flashbulbs.
So, I know there's a lot of photographs out there and if some of you who took them would be kind enough to email them to me at artbellatminespring.com I will turn around, JPEGs preferable, I will turn around and put them on the website for all to see and there was something very special that occurred that I think you're all going to get a big kick out of at that talk convention.
Really special.
You're going to just laugh and laugh when you see it.
But I don't want to talk about it until I get photographs to back it up.
So, anybody who was at the convention, thank you for being there.
Thank you for the wonderful reception that I had.
It was really an amazing... The whole session was amazing.
But I want to get some of the... I've got to get some of the photographs.
Now, before I do anything else, I must inform you I have received The best ghost photographs in all my years of collecting ghost photographs, and we've got probably one of the best collections, I think, anywhere on the web of ghost photographs.
This one is on top.
Listen carefully.
Dear Mr. Bell, I have attached a picture that absolutely chilled me to the bone.
Last summer, I went on a trip to Montreal with my fiancé.
We shot a lot of photos, but I recently found a roll of film that was not developed.
You know, that happens to me all the time on vacations.
I'll develop them all, but there's one that, you know, you just about shoot up and you leave in the camera and you don't develop it, or you pull it out and put it in one of those little containers and develop it later.
Anyway, he goes on.
After getting the pictures from the developer, I nearly passed out from horror when I viewed this photo.
In it, You can see the outline in the middle ground of what appears to be a glowing adult male standing in the middle of the sidewalk.
What makes this picture so creepy is that we had been warned by a cab driver about strange sightings in the area.
We probed him for information, but he immediately changed the subject and refused to say any more about it.
Having done a little research on my own, in other words, asking around a local tavern, I learned that a 31-year-old man had recently hanged himself in one of the adjacent apartment buildings.
I never believed in the supernatural before this.
It has changed my belief system forever.
By sharing this with others, perhaps some good may come of this, although I do not know.
Thank you for your time, Bill Doyle of Boston, Massachusetts.
Bill, There are two things we would love to have from you.
One is a quick email with your phone number because I'll call you if you will send it to me.
Number two, we would like to have a copy from, in other words, if you would be so kind as to take your negative and go get another copy.
Do not send me the original.
That's how things get lost.
But I would like to have another copy so I could do a very high-res scan of this photograph.
Ladies and gentlemen, this... ...is the damnedest photograph you've ever seen.
Now, you can download it.
It's quite good.
It is fairly high-resolution, as is.
And you can zoom in on it.
And as you do... ...well, all I can tell you is, I have never before had a photograph... ...that was quite so clearly...
A human, well, what might have been previously a human form.
And it's sort of halfway between invisible and visible.
I have looked at this from every angle, now I know I'm casting this forth into the sea of pixel people, which is fine, go take a look, do your best, or worst.
But folks, This is a half-formed... How would I put it?
Entity, I guess.
Half, obviously, on its way toward forming into a solid shape.
Or, perhaps, how would I know, maybe it was solid and it was dematerializing.
That's the way to put it, I guess.
It's halfway in between.
You can actually see You can see very clearly see an arm part of the upper body in a semi-solid form.
The entire form is there but obviously it's either disappearing or appearing.
He caught it exactly in the middle.
It's the damnedest picture I've ever seen in my whole life.
And of course it falls right into the category of I don't know how we usually seem to get these ghost photographs.
Somebody, in this case, who hanged himself.
But if this one doesn't do it for you, nothing ever will.
It's on my website right now, and this is why I go through my email.
I get, on average, about 1,500.
fifteen hundred I say again fifteen hundred emails a day but I go through
all of them I read all of them obviously they don't all get answered but I've got
It's the only way you can do this program and understand what's important and what's not.
There's just no way to have somebody else doing it for me.
So it takes up the better part of my day, actually.
But this is the benefit that you reap from it.
Go to my website now, www.artbell.com Just hold your cursor over What's New, and there, right at the top, will be New Montreal Ghost Photo.
And I'm telling you, folks, you have never, ever seen anything like this.
This is the best ghost photograph ever taken.
Now, for some people, with regard to proof of the afterlife, there will never be enough proof until that moment arrives for them.
Boy, this comes pretty close.
This really is something.
This really is something.
Best ghost photograph I've ever seen.
I bet we've got... I don't know how many we've got up there.
I bet we've got a hundred up there.
And I would say that in email, I reject probably 99 out of a hundred.
So, of the ones that I send forth to Keith to put on the website, maybe one out of a hundred.
And this one is the best of them all.
Have a look.
Tear it apart.
Do your best.
I have.
I think it's absolutely legit, and Mr. Doyle, if you would like to email me quickly with a phone number, I could have you on before the hour is out.
He may or may not be listening this night.
Let's quickly look at the headlines.
Did you see the stock market today?
Oh my God.
The world markets are following, but the Nasdaq dropped another 129.4.
Down below 2000 to 1923, the index is now off nearly 62% from the all-time high of 5048.
The Dow fell precipitously, particularly in the last hour of trading.
from the all-time high of 5048.
The Dow fell precipitously, particularly in the last hour of trading.
436.37 points, and now is at 10208.25.
10208 and a quarter.
It's getting a little scary, huh?
Now, speaking of scary, North Korea has abruptly called off cabinet-level talks with South Korea that were scheduled to begin on Tuesday.
South Korean government said North Korea... Korean Chief Delegate John Kum Jin did not give any reason for the cancellation of the talks.
That's kind of ominous.
We've had our eye on Korea for a long time.
You heard, I'm sure, a U.S.
Navy warplane mistakenly bombed soldiers during a training flight, Monday, in Kuwait.
Dropped a 500-pound bomb, was a F-A-18.
Dropped a 500-pound bomb by mistake.
And I don't know what you say about that.
God, this ghost photograph is good.
This really is an incredible ghost photograph.
You've got to go see that.
Crawl, walk, run to your computer and go check this out.
The Montreal Ghost Photograph.
Explain this one to me!
Now, continuing with something that is simply not being covered in the mainstream media.
Here is yet another report.
This one March 8th.
Issued March 8th.
UK news.
Why can't I get reports on this from American media?
It's about the space fungus on board.
Again, this is really being heavily covered in the rest of the world.
I'm not saying the US press doesn't cover it, but boy, there has sure has not been much.
They talk about Mir coming back, but they don't talk about this.
In the latest twist to the long saga of the Mir space station, Biologists are worried about a new strain of fungus which Mir is going to bring back, or may bring back to Earth, when it splashes down this month.
Russian NTV television interviewed Yuri Karash, a space expert who thinks the microorganisms, which have now spent 15 years quietly mutating in their own isolated environment on Mir, could be a real problem.
Quote, I don't want to be a pessimist, but the problem is there, and it is a serious one.
The mutant fungi do exist, and in the future they could do serious damage to humanity.
We can only draw the final conclusions after we have completed our research, he said.
Over the years, visitors to Mir have consistently said the biggest impression on reaching the space station was the smell.
And they have found various types of fungus growing behind panels and in air conditioning units.
Some of them corrode metalwork or give off toxic fumes.
But it is how they will develop when they reach Earth that is worrying the experts.
That's right, when they get back down here.
Mir is likely to splash down in waters which are New Zealand's responsibility.
Prime Minister Helen Clark has reassured the nation there was no radiation or biological hazard on board, but that was before the latest developments about the mutant fungi, in effect an unknown form of life whose likely impact is simply unknown.
Scientists have been worried about contamination from space before quarantine was a routine precaution for early astronauts.
Neil Armstrong, first man on the moon, had to fill in an agriculture, customs, immigration, and public health declaration on his return to the U.S.
Did he really?
I didn't know that.
Anyway, the bottom line here is something is growing and has been growing for a long time now.
On the Mirror Space Station, and it's on its way back.
Now, it may well be that the space station will come down, and nothing untoward will occur.
Right away.
You see, nothing is going to happen right away with whatever reaches the ground and plunges into the ocean, they hope.
But a fungus, particularly a mutant fungus, as we all know, having seen all the movies, right?
Does not develop right away.
So it's not one of those instant things.
But, and it's a big but, if you've got a fungus that can develop and thrive in space and eat metal and glass and stuff like that, surviving on nothing more than the nutrition Uh, given off, they say, by the human body, you know, little flakes of skin or little whatevers that are enough protein for it to survive.
Imagine what such a fungus would do when it reaches a nutrient-rich environment like good old Earth!
So, if something crawls ashore and begins eating New Zealanders, Aussies, or even Canadians.
Tasty Canadians.
These things never happen in America, right?
We'll just have to wait and see.
But actually, you know, much as I'm joking about this, this is very serious.
Potentially very serious.
And the news is hardly saying a word about it.
Certainly not the U.S.
news.
The History Channel aired the supposed true story of the Philadelphia Experiment.
I've got it on tape, I have not yet seen it.
So I will reserve comment until I see it, but it is my understanding that it probably tries to debunk most of what is said by many about it.
Now, a lot of people have said You know, if these crop circles that Linda Moulton Howe and others have reported on are really anything at all, well, I guess I'd better hold that.
We've got a little bit of business we've got to do right now before I get so worked up about things that I forget.
So if I don't do it, I'll have two breaks next half hour.
Let's do our break right now, and I'll tell you about some ice rink.
All right, well, I just barely got that in, didn't I?
Ottawa, Canada.
Mysterious ice rings in Ontario and Quebec are baffling investigators tracking the appearance of strange circles in ponds and fields all across Canada.
Cold, hard facts about the frozen phenomena are scarce indeed, making it too early to tell if the rings are related to their better-known cousins, the crop circles that continue to turn up in farmers' fields worldwide.
Two rule ice ring cases are among 11 sightings now described in the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network's annual summary report for 2000.
The round ice formations have been documented only rarely in Canada, the U.S., Germany, and Russia.
According to Paul Anderson, the network's Vancouver-based director, we're lucky if we hear of one.
Well, early last December, a woman in the eastern Ontario town of Delta awoke to find an ice ring almost five meters in diameter on the pond behind the family barn.
She swore up and down that it wasn't there the night before.
Said the ice was too thin to walk on.
Making a hoax unlikely.
Oh, now that's interesting.
So it was too thin to walk on.
So if somebody had been out there hoaxing it, they would have gone through the ice, plunged into the icy water, and probably would have been a Darwin Award nominee.
But it could not have been a hoax because the ice was too thin.
And for years, I have said, along with a lot of others, if crop circles are real, then we should find snow circles, ice circles, Dirt Circles!
And by God, we've been getting Dirt Circles and Ice Circles!
We had, uh, I had a photograph of a circle in a, a sort of a, in Southern California, in a sort of a slightly grassy but mostly dirt area.
There was no question about what it was.
And now, all across Canada, Remember how they began in Europe as simple circles and then slowly increased in complexity as though they were trying to send some kind of a message, right?
Well, now we've got the simple ones in ice all across Canada.
They're trying to send a message.
I wonder what it might be.
Whatever else you do, check out that ghost photo on my website right now.
It is the best.
I'm going to be a good man.
The sight of a touch or the scent of a sound or the strength of an oak leaves deep in the ground.
The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing.
That all these things in our memories I'm the universe, the cosmic power
Ride, ride like a dog, take a bite I'm everywhere, you just don't need me
Wanna take a ride?
Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach Art at area code 775-727-1222.
800-825-5033. First time callers may reach Art at area code 775-727-1222 or call the
wildcard line at 775-727-1295. To talk with Art on the toll free international line, call
your AT&T operator.
and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
We actually have a photograph of a being caught in mid-materialization, or dematerialization.
I'd have no way of knowing, of course, but this being is half there and half not there.
Tonya, this is the best ghost photograph ever sent to me by anybody.
It takes its place at the top of all of them.
You go to my website www.artbell.com and you click on what's new, you'll see Montreal Ghost Photograph.
Check it out.
Have fun with it, pixel people.
Because it's really, really a freaky good one.
All right, we're going to take care of business right away, so I don't forget it.
And then we'll get underway with open lines.
Coming up next.
All right, I've got so much more, but I want to get some calls in.
Oh, by the way, new words for the 2001 dictionary.
How about this one?
I've got a bunch of them.
Osmosis.
Asmosis, the process by which some people seem to absorb success and advancement by kissing up to the boss.
Asmosis.
Asmosis.
Wildcard line, you're on the air.
Good morning.
Hello.
Going once.
Going twice.
Go on.
East of the Rockies.
You're on the air.
Good morning.
Hello, Mark.
Hi.
Turn down the radio.
Turn it off?
Yes.
Turning it off.
Good for you.
I can't believe I got through.
This is Buddy.
Listening to you in St.
Louis on 97.1 FM.
Glad to have you back on.
Glad to have Coast to our Coast back on.
Isn't it?
It's kind of fun to listen on FM, isn't it?
The quality is mwah!
Yes, it is, but it's kind of a weak station here, but I'm sure it's better than not having you on at all.
I certainly didn't think that the previous station here, the Carriage, it did you justice.
Well that, hey listen, that station is 100,000 watts, so I don't know about weak.
Put up an antenna.
Yeah, well, listen to it on the C, well, it's mostly good for AM anyway though, isn't it?
CC, isn't it?
Oh, I see you're, oh, so, well, you can put up an FM antenna and attach it to the back of CC radio, take a look.
Yeah, I do, but I'm sitting here in an apartment, so I don't get very good reception here anyway.
Anyway, welcome to the show.
Well, I wanted to make a suggestion for a show you might have.
I know you were planning on having one a couple of Fridays ago, but it was taken up or something.
But before you went on your hiatus, you were suggested that maybe one night you might do a show on movies.
Callers in just calling about movies.
Oh, yeah.
That's a good topic.
Yeah, I think you should.
And if so, wait a minute.
Okay.
What movie would you have called about?
Oh geez, I'm interested in so many different kinds.
One in particular I probably want to talk with you about is called Quatermass in a Pit, or probably by its American title, it's known as Five Million Years to Earth.
Ever seen it?
No!
And I've seen almost every movie of the genre.
How would I miss that?
I don't know, Art.
It's a great show.
It was redone.
It was done by Hammer Films.
It was done in the, I think, the mid-60s.
What was the concept?
It's about a group of men who discover they're digging a subway in London, and they run across something that they think is a unexploded bomb from World War II, but as the movie progresses, they find human fossils there.
Or I should say... Wait a minute, that's beginning to sound familiar.
Yes, and then eventually ghosts come in, or cults, and all this kind of stuff, and you wonder, how in the world could they mix all this stuff together and make something cohesive and whole, but actually it's a fantastic movie.
I kind of remember that.
Well, does insect people ring a bell?
Yes, it does.
Okay, then you've seen it.
Yeah, great.
Listen to me, if you're interested, have you seen the ghost on my site yet?
I don't have a computer.
I have to go to the library and I get there so unoften.
My job keeps me away.
Well, we'll get it in the newsletter if you happen to get that.
But this is incredible.
I mean, if you can imagine something halfway materialized or dematerialized, And, and you can zoom in on this, I mean you can download it, zoom in on it, and it holds together, and you can see this half being cottage-ery.
Anyway.
I'd love to.
One of these days a computer will be in my future.
Alright, well I will consider a show on movies.
And music.
Do one on music too, that would be pretty nice as well.
Well, we talk about that a lot because of all the, you know, the bopper music that I play.
Yeah, I know, but there's people out here that have... You should hear some of those things people want to talk to you about music about.
I could talk your ear off about it.
All right, my friend.
All right, have a good night.
Thank you very much and take care.
Well, to the Rockies, you are on the air.
Good morning.
Good morning.
Where are you?
I'm in Carson, California.
I was ringing the phone from my girlfriend.
She wants to talk to you.
Rima?
Yeah, Rima?
Come on.
I got him.
You're the star here, Rima, I guess.
So, on the phone with you.
Rima, come here.
Come on, Rima.
Hello?
Hi there, Rima.
Yes.
You're on the air.
Yeah, I just wanted to ask a question about the Antichrist.
I'm not going to mention the name.
Okay.
I called, I went to all the bookstores hoping to find a book, and they don't have anything listed under his name.
Well, uh, there's a lot of material on the web.
Do you have a computer?
No, I don't.
No, no, no.
It's another person without a computer.
Right.
I thought America was connected.
Sheesh.
Well, go to the library and go to the computer at the library.
They've got one there, right?
Right.
And, uh, do a search on that name or do a search on the Antichrist.
Look, I'm not saying that person is the Antichrist.
Oh, I know, I know.
As you know, that's Kathleen Keating that's saying that.
So I'm not saying that person is the Antichrist.
And for all I know, I could be the Antichrist.
Uh-huh.
And a lot of people think I am.
Uh-huh.
And are you, I think you said you might be planning to have him as a guest.
I think that would be great.
I think that would be a lot of viewers.
Do you really?
Oh, well, alright.
Listeners.
I have listeners, not viewers.
Viewers, TV.
Right.
Listeners.
Radios, listeners.
All right, um, you've got it.
I'll see what I can do.
I've been tossing the thought around in my mind and receiving warnings.
Oh, I found out the Antichrist found.
Don't do that.
And then others who've been saying, oh yes, it would be very interesting.
Well, as I just told that young lady, I have no idea whether Kathleen Keating is right about who the Antichrist is.
The Antichrist may not be here yet, may not be coming.
Or may already be here and all revved up to do his thing.
I have no idea.
Or it may be one of us.
Maybe the Antichrist has no idea who the Antichrist is.
Don't know.
First time caller line.
You're on the air.
Good morning.
Hello, Art.
Hi there.
You must be in a truck.
Yes, I am.
All right.
Where is your truck?
I am in driving halfway through Nebraska.
I'm Steve from Moline, Illinois.
All right, Steve.
I got a couple things I've been wanting to talk to you about.
Can't believe I got through.
One of them is One of your favorite bumper musics, and I hope I don't lose you on the cell phone, is Fear the Cat by Al Stewart.
Oh, it certainly is.
There is another song by Al Stewart that is excellent.
One of your favorite subjects is the subject of time, and particularly time travel.
Uh, Al Stewart has a song from back in the 70s that's called Time Passages.
And if you can't get a copy of it, it's excellent.
Alright, I'd be glad to check it out.
But Year of the Cat, there's something about that song that I can't...
I don't quite figure out that has me entranced.
I don't know what it is.
I agree with you, and I enjoy the song.
I also have two cats at home, but that's beside the subject.
I really think you would love Time Passages.
It has some of the same sound and qualities, and it has something that, I don't know, it's kind of hypnotic.
Maybe that was his secret.
A few weeks back you had a guest on your show that was using a plasma generator to make a clock go faster.
Yes.
Could you imagine if a person could take that to work with them?
And when you went to work, you could make time go real fast.
Or how about a small model you could take to school?
I mean, remember school?
Yeah.
What a bummer that was.
If you could just rush that along.
And then when you got out of work, you could slow the clock down.
That's right.
And for every hour with your significant other, you could make it go one-third slower.
Absolutely.
I love it.
All right, thank you.
Sure.
I love the idea.
Speed it up at school or work bring it home and when you get into the pleasure dome that you call home You slow it down and therefore you do not Save for any short period during any given 24-hour time You don't get older you don't get younger because at the end of it all you have sped up work and the part you didn't like or school and then slowed down the parts you did like so There's no net gain, no net loss.
I like it.
Well, to the Rockies, you're on the air.
Good morning.
Hello, Art.
Hi.
Hey, my name is Jason.
Listen to your show.
I love it.
Thank you.
And I'm glad you're back.
Where are you, Jason?
I'm in Las Vegas, Nevada.
Over the hill.
Oh, yeah.
Over the hill.
Anyway, um, I know you're not particularly talking about ghosts and everything tonight.
Yes, I am.
I've got the best photograph mankind has ever seen.
I saw it on the website.
Oh, thank you, thank you.
I can't believe it.
Thank you, thank you.
Finally, somebody with a computer.
It is beautiful.
I mean, it's... Now, is it exactly what I said, either half materialized or half dematerialized, one or the other?
Um, I don't know, but it's giving me chicken skin just thinking about it.
Yeah.
Um, I looked at it and I was like, wow.
That is crazy.
It looks like a girl to me.
I'm not sure.
I can't... I'm not sure either.
It kind of looks like a girl walking down.
I'm not sure.
Well...
Whatever it is.
Right.
You know, I've heard so many stories.
You always hear in ghost stories about people either appearing or disappearing, right?
Absolutely.
And you know that that occurs because you hear so many stories.
But when do you ever get a photograph of it?
Usually it's either a mist or it's a solid person.
And you can say, well, you know, that's a real person.
It's not a ghost or that's just somebody who fuzzed it in there.
But this one.
Good Lord, you can see right through part of the person, and the rest, and some of the person, it's just the best photograph I've ever seen.
It looks like a mist with total form and face and everything.
Yeah.
Yeah, except it's more than mist.
Well, exactly, and that's what hit home to me, and that's why I'm calling, is because I've seen something of the same nature.
You have?
When I was in New Zealand, when I was about 12 years old, Uh, I was flying to New Zealand, that's where my mother is from.
Her father was dying, and, uh, so we were flying to New Zealand, so, you know, me and my brother could meet my grandfather again, uh, you know, a second time.
Yes.
Um, before he died.
Yes, and where do you see this?
He died one hour before we landed.
Oh.
In New Zealand, which was pretty horrific for my mother, uh, Yeah, of course.
playing blah blah blah and I tell you what because he was critically ill yeah
well he was um he had his legs run over by a tank in World War one and did some
intelligence work during World War two but I mean what I mean is you went all
the way to New Zealand on news that he was ill or not Yes, we did.
Yes, you did.
Okay, I thought so.
Alright, so you got there and what?
Yeah, we got there and my brother and I and my cousin were staying in the trailer that my aunt had rented.
My mom's sister had rented the trailer for a solid stay in.
And this is before the funeral and everything.
Two days before the funeral and I wake up and I'm feeling all kind of weird and stuff and I wake up and I sit up and I look down the trailer to where my brother is sleeping in a bunk at the end of the trailer.
Alright, we don't have much time, yes?
And there's my grandfather in the same kind of form.
It looks almost like static on your TV.
All right.
So, in other words, about halfway there and halfway... Well, no, he was fully there, but he was still static-y, weird-looking.
Did you see him when he finally dematerialized?
Did you see it?
Did he just blink out, or did he fade away, or what?
He looked at my brother, and he looked down at him, and he came over to me, and he saw that I was awake, and he smiled at me, and he saw my cousin, and he smiled at my cousin, and he smiled at us, and then he just kind of Dematerialized.
It just went away.
Dematerialized.
All right.
Well, that's the kind of story that you hear all the time.
What you don't get is apparent proof of something either coming or going.
Again, I would have no way of knowing from this photograph, but obviously halfway there and halfway there.
If you follow me.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hi Art, this is Jeff Terrell, Texas, listening to you on 570 TLI up out of Dallas.
Cliven Ellis, and you're on a cell phone too.
Yes, and I wanted to tell you, I did go to your website, there is a remarkable ghost photo.
Art, my question... You saw it, thank you.
Yeah, my question is, do you know when you're going to have Major Ed Dames on again?
Yes, in the first week of April.
I talked to Ed Dames earlier today, in fact.
Well, you know, one of the things that he, um, he's going to be reporting to us on is the skunk ape photos that were on my website.
He's, uh, remote viewed those.
Oh, great.
Well, I just wanted to tell you something, uh, before you had had us, I've been listening to you for a long time.
I'm a police officer.
I sent you an email about this, but, uh, the last time he was on, you asked him if many departments use this.
Yes.
Uh, uh, I'm really trying to get this pushed as a credible tool for law enforcement in Texas.
And I know that it works because before your hiatus, Ed Bames said one night on your show, oh, he just came to it, there's going to be a tornado that strikes down in the Houston area.
Two days later, one hit right at the edge of Houston, killed a guy in a mobile home.
I'm sure sorry to hear that.
Back today, they had tornadoes all across the South.
It was horrible.
But I thought of that and it really confirmed to me that this, this, it means, it's incredible.
Well, thanks a lot, Art.
Just wanted to make that comment to you and enjoy your program.
Alright, thank you.
You may have a tough time getting departments.
I wouldn't think Texas would necessarily be the first to embrace remote viewing.
Some parts of Texas are pretty hard-headed about stuff like that.
Well, I'm going to try to go through our equivalent to California Post officers and trainees and try to do this.
I think it's a really good tool for cold cases.
I think Ed believes that as well.
Thank you very much for the call and good luck.
I saw a funny joke about Texas and Survivor.
Anybody hear that one?
I can't remember it properly to tell it to you, but it had something to do with a bumper sticker that you would have to put on your car, be a new Survivor series, you know, after the Outback.
And you'd have to put this bumper sticker on your car, something about, Hi, I'm here to take your guns.
And there was more to it.
I don't think I can repeat it on the air, but you get the idea.
And the challenge was to make it all the way from West Texas to East Texas and survive with that bumper sticker on your car.
Texans are not exactly the first to rush in on something that's sort of on the edge here, but I don't know, maybe parts of Texas.
Alright, well, one more time.
That's good music for a ghost, huh?
This ghost photograph is the best, in my opinion, ever taken.
And it's on my website right now.
Just go to the What's New section, you'll see Montreal Ghost.
Oh my, half here and half there.
Absolutely incredible.
www.artbell.com www.artbell.com
Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nigh from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255, east
of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222, and the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
To reach Art on the toll-free international line, call...
Call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
Well, good morning everybody on the East Coast.
Good evening, those of you in the far West.
And I suppose good afternoon on Guam, now carrying all five hours of programs.
Thank you very much.
Listen, we're about to dive into the case for NASA's UFOs.
I bet they hate book titles like this.
Evidence 2001, the case for NASA's UFOs by David Sirita.
They just hate stuff like this.
And as the program progresses, as we talk to David, We may get James Oberg on here, who's a mission controller for NASA, and kind of a self-described debunker, skeptic, buff on space-air mythology.
His words, all his words, David thinks there's nothing mythological about it, it's all real, and we're about to get into that.
Just a couple of real quick things for those stations joining at this hour.
One, Friday night, Saturday, I went to the R&R Talk Convention down in Marina Del Rey, California, LA.
And I want to get some photographs.
I want to talk to you about it because some amazing things happened there.
Some really cool things happened there.
And I took a camera, but everybody was taking photographs of me.
Along with many others that were there.
And so before I get into any detail about it, I want to beg those of you who took the photographs to email them to me so I can get them up on the site.
Send me the most interesting ones.
I mean, a million people were taking photographs, but because I seem to be the subject of so many, I didn't take any.
I took very few.
So, if you would be so kind, email them to me at artbell at mindspring.com, and then we'll tell the story of what happened at Marina Del Rey.
How's that?
Need those photographs.
There is a photograph I've got right now on the website that is a total, total mind blower.
This one comes from Montreal, Canada.
It is the best ghost photograph I've ever seen in my entire life.
The best ghost photograph.
It's a being caught on the streets of Montreal, half materialized.
I mean half, you know, the typical mist, but formed mist, and half human.
And it was either coming or going.
But this one's a keeper, folks.
It's the best ghost photograph we've ever received.
Go to my website at www.artbell.com Take a look at this, download it, blow it up if you want, take a good close look at it, have a pixel people party with it if you want, and let me know what you think.
Inevitably, some are gonna say fake, but I've looked very closely at this one, and I can't even see a hint of that.
I think we've got the real McCoy right now on my website at www.artbell.com.
Have a blast.
Alright, now comes David Sirita.
Now, David Sirita is author of an upcoming book called Evidence 2001, The Case for NASA UFOs.
This discovery and investigation of UFOs filmed by astronauts on space shuttle missions, presenting for example the STS-75 tether incident, was featured with David Sirita as speaker on 20th Century Fox TV special UFOs, The Best Evidence Caught on Tape 2.
That was April 27th of 2000.
So you've probably seen David on TV.
David's Business experience includes 1996 through 8 as being vice president, then president of High Energy Micro Devices, an R&D company working as a U.S.
Department of Defense contractor building leading-edge national security detection systems for buried landmines, future airport, and U.S.
Customs detection systems for explosives, narcotics, and chemical weapons.
He was also in charge of government and military communications And assisting in global marketing for high-energy micro-devices.
In 1992 through 4, he was president of LA-based Green and Blue Corporation, raising echo venture capital for modern technological solutions for a better environment.
From 1990 through 1992, director of the LA-based Tesla.
Foundation promoting scientific discoveries for a better environment under which he spoke in Congress in a debate on nuclear fusion in 1992 1980 through 2000 David has marketed various environmental products helped with oil spill cleanups over the course of 20 years get this he is personally planted over 1 million trees in the forests of the Pacific Northwest 1 million trees David Sirita.
Johnny Appleseed, I guess.
Of a sort, yes.
How you doing, David?
Good, Art.
I'm really glad to be on your show and I really thank you for having an open mind.
And not knowing much about me, having me on the show today.
That's alright.
That's what I do.
Yeah.
David, a little later in the show, you have a very open mind, because I got a fax, not a fax, but an email from James Oberg, and James Oberg describes himself, as I said a little while ago, In a kind of an interesting way as a NASA mission control veteran a buff on space age Mythology interesting word and a self to see he used the word himself debunker so you agreed to perhaps later in the show have a few moments of debate with the
Mr. Oberg, and I think that's open-minded of you.
Yeah, it is.
Considering he's coming in to flan me.
All right.
Well, so be it.
We'll see.
Let's begin.
Let's get your story out first.
Now, we've got A whole series of photographs on my website right now that you have provided for us that we pulled off another website someplace because we've got the bandwidth to handle it.
And these seem to have to do with the tether, with NASA's tether experiment.
So, I guess that's where we ought to begin, perhaps with your contact with Michael Boyle.
Start the story for me.
I mean, how did you get into all of this?
Well, with my experience in working with many of the top nuclear scientists in the United States and Russia for the past 15 years or 10 years or so on nuclear fusion, I had access to many of the most brilliant physicists in this country and the next.
And working as a spokesperson and communications person for them in the investment community and with the government, I had a good working knowledge of, in a general sense, of how science works and how to have conversations.
A photographer named Mike Boyle in Canada back in 1994 had noticed on a cable TV station some phenomenal NASA footage of what appeared to be UFOs.
He phoned me up and was really excited about the footage and said he saw balls of light zipping away from the Earth's atmosphere, something that you would never see a meteorite or shooting star capable of doing.
And the fact that these objects were zipping away from the Earth and shooting out into space was indicative of them having internal energy to escape the Earth's powerful gravity.
And so, Mike suggested that we get a hold of the man who owned the footage and try to conduct a scientific investigation.
Right.
And that was my job.
So after tracking down the man, Martin Stubbs, who started all this stuff, And who was Martin Stubbs?
Martin Stubbs is a program manager of a cable TV station in Vancouver, Canada, who was recording over 400 hours of live broadcasts of NASA space shuttle missions for us.
Oh, the NASA Select Channel, probably.
Yeah.
Yeah, okay.
and he had access to a huge, you know, a huge...
Library, I guess.
Yeah, library of footage that he actually downloaded with the satellite at the station
and a phenomenal collection.
And finally, after talking to Martin Stubbs, he wasn't so open to me right away.
He was a little worried that I might be a man in black or someone working in Department of Defense
who was spying on him.
He wasn't just, you know, here's the footage and glad to meet you.
I had to really talk to him, and Mike did too, and it was a lot of hard work, and Martin finally opened up to us when he realized our intentions were the same as his, to investigate a potential UFO phenomenon.
And so finally Martin gave us a taste, and I started, I decided to start my investigation at NASA by talking to the head of astrochemistry, Dr. Joseph Knuth III, And what I ended up doing was starting a game called Process of Elimination.
We would look at the footage on the video and basically go through every known phenomenon in the solar system and find out if we could eliminate the phenomenon or if it would survive the investigation and become classified as unidentified.
And The first thing I found out, first of all, was Joseph Knuth was incredibly open-minded.
He immediately wrote me back.
I had written him about the phenomena that I'd seen on the tape.
And the first thing he wrote me was about a physicist named Dr. Louis A. Frank, who was a National Space Act award-winning astrophysicist.
Who had made a major discovery way back in 1985 of what appeared to be balls of water, properly termed now small comets, although they're not related to comets at all.
40 ton balls of water doing 35,000 miles an hour and 10 to 20 million of them impacting the Earth.
And there were some very disturbing things Dr. Knuth was telling me about this research and the first being That these objects only showed up with cameras that were sensitive to light in the ultraviolet light spectrum.
Why would that be?
Why would it not?
Well, a ball of water in space would be a ball of ice, right?
Well, not necessarily.
No, not actually not.
Okay, the first problem with the water ball theory, and this is an enormous debate at NASA.
Scientists fight with each other furiously about this.
essentially cannot survive detransits in space unless it's in the form of a massive object like a comet.
Right.
The reason being is space is about minus 273 degrees centigrade.
It's freezing.
Right.
But as soon as you put an object in space, whether it's a satellite or your finger or a ball of water, the intense radiation from the sun destroys it.
It bombards it.
The water basically would be destroyed into, it would separate into hydrogen and oxygen and burn off into various gases and would disappear.
Wait a minute, David.
Again, it couldn't be in the form of water in space anyway.
You're talking about 40 foot wide balls of water.
They started 40 feet wide.
Now again, this is a very interesting debate because no one knows for certain.
Later in my investigation, Dr. Louis A. Frank FedExed me an entire package of data from his discovery.
And he deducts water based on what's called the atomic scattering of oxygen trails coming out of the back of these things.
In other words, they kind of streak across the sky.
Coming into the Earth, and in the trail, they detected oxygen, and the oxygen basically, the sunlight reacts with it, and the nuclear reaction produces heat, and you get this atomic scattering of oxygen.
Now, one of the most disturbing things to Dr. News, again, first of all, was that, theoretically, water couldn't have arrived here.
So that was a spectral analysis that determined it was water?
It's actually Dr. Louis A. Frank's hypothesis based on the atomic scattering of oxygen.
He doesn't actually detect water.
He makes the hypothesis, and I've read all of his data, that they are water.
But backing up again, David, I still don't understand.
You cannot have water traversing space.
Exactly.
You can't.
Good point.
And that's one of the big arguments that Dr. Noose on the other side of NASA is saying,
reasons believing that they couldn't be water balls.
But it gets more and more interesting.
First of all...
But they couldn't be water balls, David.
They couldn't be theoretically, but when you look at Dr. Noose, sorry, Dr. Frank's data,
they're behaving just like water balls.
They're coming in at about 35,000 miles an hour.
They impact at about 300 miles, which is 200 miles above the top of the atmosphere.
They start to dissolve.
They vaporize into about 100 kilometer, 100 mile wide clouds.
And they basically drop rain down onto the earth.
Now, again, the problem was theoretically the water ball couldn't have survived the
transit from another point in the solar system to get here.
So, based on that, Dr. Knuth says they don't believe the objects are real and they couldn't be here.
However, they're showing up in the ultraviolet spectrum.
We have to first of all understand what observation is and what that means when something only shows up in the ultraviolet spectrum.
Well now wait a minute.
When something begins to enter our atmosphere at 30,000 miles per hour particularly, it would, assuming that it was out there as ice, when it hit the atmosphere it's going to heat and it's going to become almost immediately water and then vapor, right?
Well, actually, even way out in space, only if it's really far away from the Earth would it not be in the form of ice.
As it comes near the Sun, which is where the Earth is, it wouldn't even survive.
It wouldn't even have gotten here in the first place.
So, it's impossible.
Ice cannot exist in sunlight in space.
It just cannot.
That's right.
That's right.
where they do their... We have comets. Comets are enormous balls of ice that
travel at huge elliptical orbits around the Sun. As they near the Sun, they
start to melt. That's right. There's intense radiation and that's why you see the vapor
trail and the dust particles. And then when they return to their deep orbit
into the far reaches of the Sun... They refreeze. They refreeze.
That's right. So the theory is, and I ran this by Dr. Noose, I said could these water balls
be droppings from the passing of the recent comet Hale-Barr.
Sure, sure.
And he said, no, because they've been observing these things constantly since 1985, whether a comet was passing or not.
And he disagreed with Lou Frank's water hypothesis based on the fact that water could not survive getting this close to the sun in such small pockets.
I don't know if I believe that.
I mean, it might.
That's a pretty good size.
Well, it sounds like a good size, but when you consider the intensity of the radiation of the sun in space, we think, because space is cold, that when you consider that we protect our satellites with radiant barrier foil so that they're not damaged by intense rays, It gives you an idea of how intense cosmic rays are.
Alright, anyway, whatever they are.
We're getting further, getting further, because that's still just the beginning.
First of all, to understand how we see, and how we see objects, and how cameras see objects, basically, light is just energy.
It's electromagnetic energy.
Right.
And at the low end of the spectrum, for the audience, radio waves are at the very lowest end of the energy spectrum.
Higher than that are infrared and microwaves, which are usually detected as heat.
Well, even lower than that would be audio.
Audio is?
Yeah, back down in radio, yeah.
Below radio there would be just plain audio, like you and I. Oh, okay, I see.
Okay.
And then, higher than infrared is the color red, which we all see, which is actually a wavelength of energy.
And then the color orange, which is a particular spectrum of energy, and yellow, and green, and blue, and violet, which is The highest energy that the human brain can see.
And then above that we have ultraviolet, which is divided into near, far, and extreme.
And the near ultraviolet spectrum is probably about twice the bandwidth of the visible light spectrum.
And then above that you have extreme ultraviolet, x-rays, and gamma rays, which is phenomenally high energy.
Right.
Now, the Space Shuttle's U.S., I'm sorry, the Space Shuttle's black and white video cameras, which is If people are wondering why they see these black and white video images from STS-45 and 48 and the tether, it's because the space shuttle has a very special video camera, which I've researched, that has sensors developed by a company called Advanced Photonics in Camarillo, California, that allows the shuttle's cameras to see into the near-ultraviolet.
And also, with the addition of something called some sort of a centillion multiplier,
they're able to detect gamma in x-rays, but not actually see gamma in x-rays,
but detect in that range in the form of noise.
If something was coming in a very high energy object, they might see something.
No, I agree with you.
They're extremely sensitive cameras, alright?
Now, NASA has never seen anything, an object, that only shows up in the high spectrum before.
When you take a picture with a telescope of a star or a planet, it will show up in the radio spectrum, the infrared spectrum, the visible spectrum, the ultraviolet, near, far, and extreme x-rays and gamma rays.
Now, the fact that these objects only showed up, according to Dr. Knuth, in the ultraviolet spectrum was very disturbing to them.
For such an object to only show up in the ultraviolet spectrum suggests it is a very high-energy quantum phenomenon, if an interpretation like that is considered correct.
However, while Lou Frank's supposed alleged water balls are showing up in that spectrum, There is reason to believe that a lot of the UFOs that we're seeing are also showing up in the same spectrum.
Now remember, the human eye can't see that high up.
Our brain, unless we have a very advanced brain, we can't see things in that spectrum.
And there's even some speculation today that if cameras were equipped in the ultraviolet, You might even see ghosts and other paranormal phenomena that... I'm with you there.
Yeah.
Believe me, you ought to see the new ghost photographs.
Yeah, in fact, actually one night you had a woman on, I was dying to try to call in.
She had taken pictures of UFOs around the Los Angeles area and she said only the ultraviolet part of the image remained on the camera.
When she said that, I was so excited because I felt that I understood why that was happening.
Um, a long time ago, when I was working on non-radioactive nuclear fusion with a scientist named Dr. Bolgen Magwitch from MIT, I had a conversation with Earl Van Landingham, who was Director of Propulsion Power and Energy at NASA.
And I candidly asked him, after a very long conversation about fusion, um, about UFOs.
And he said that, no, NASA hasn't seen any evidence of an extraterrestrial craft, because if there was such a craft that was to travel to our planet, It would be radiating with such tremendously high energy, indicative that it could conquer the vast distances of space.
Alright.
Listen, David, you've got to hold it right there.
We'll be right back.
There ain't no time to get laid To realize just what I have been
I have been in all the hell of what I am All clear to me now
My heart is on fire My bones like a wheel that's turning
My love is denied She says of which direction
Completely disappears By the blue carved wall
There's a market stall With a hint that she'll eat you too
These days she says I feel my life Just like a river running through
The air of the camp I'm a river running through the air
I'm a river running through the air I'm a river running through the air
I'm a river running through the air Wanna take a ride? Well, call Art Bell from west of the
Rockies at 1-800-3-4.
East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
And to reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Sells on the Premier Radio Network.
David Sirita is here talking about NASA's UFOs.
They don't like talking about UFOs.
Their black and white space shuttle cameras are equipped to see into the near ultraviolet light spectrum and David Sirita
thinks We're seeing craft
Telling you right now this saxophone does this so good the world.
Soul medicine.
Anyway, we'll get right back to David Sirita, and we will establish that that is in fact what he's talking about.
Stay right there.
Back down to David Sirita, and His presentation about NASA's UFOs.
David, I want to rush ahead a little bit, I guess, so that we can discuss some of the photographs that we've got on the website.
Now, again, these black and white cameras, obviously, I think you've established, capture things the human eye cannot see.
And you're talking about energy of the kind that it would take to propel a craft across I guess interstellar space, right?
Exactly.
Uh-huh.
And so, these photographs that we've got from NASA, of all people from NASA, you're saying are extraterrestrial craft, or at least some of them are, right?
Exactly.
Well, after reviewing all the evidence, and again, this is a case, I look at both sides, I look at the argument against the idea that they're UFOs or unidentified objects, and the evidence that they are, And in the end, for me, it looks like they definitely are.
Alright, I'm on my website right now, and we've got a link to the BBC in Nottingham.
Um, and an article entitled, The Truth is Out There.
It, it shows a UFO in space, a question mark underneath, is it a jellyfish, just a blob, or could it be a UFO?
It sounds like a story straight out of the X-Files, a videotape, which has had to be locked in a Nottingham bank, because it contains footage of extraterrestrials.
Now, they show this, I, I don't know, Blob, for lack of a better word, ball of water, blob, whatever in the hell it is, it is a very clear shot.
They've got this footage locked in a bank vault.
They're so concerned about it.
And then I looked at the pictures that you provided, and I'll be damned, you show the first picture just above the tether, and everybody will remember the tether experiment.
We'll get more into that, but just above the tether is what looks to be The same damn thing.
A blob.
For lack of a better word.
What is that?
Describe that photograph to me.
Well, the blob that you're talking about, um, that was videotaped in England in October of 2000, looks identical, um, in three major characteristics to the UFO, alleged UFOs at this point, of the giant disk that were passing behind the 12 mile long tether on FTS-75 in 1996.
The UFO filmed in England is round, mostly light.
It has a black hole in the center.
That's right.
Has a ring shape around that black hole.
And has what the woman who videotaped it called a bite taken out of the side of it, which is probably more visible to her because the disc is on its side and you can see this light bite out of the side.
I see it.
And she actually described later that she saw light flashing inside of that bite.
And that the also that the disc that she saw was pulsing.
Now the UFO that passed on the tether on STS-75 was pulsing.
It is round, mostly light, has a black hole in the center.
And it was when I freeze-framed the pulses on a very good VCR and a large TV screen with an extremely good quality copy of the tether directly from Martin Stubbs.
I got three distinct phases in this pulse.
One, the first phase is a spiraling wave radiating out from the center of the hole, which looks like a perfect spiral.
The second phase is a ring shape around the nucleus, and this is happening very fast, so if you saw it actually going by, it would look like...
I'll give you that.
I think this is identical to the one in England.
and also that the tether UFO has a square nosh cut out of the side.
I'll give you that. I think this is identical to the one in England.
Very, very close.
In fact, if you look at the video...
Free-framing video frames and taking pictures with a 35mm camera off of the TV is not the best... Yeah, it's a very poor way to do it.
It's a very poor way to do it, but when you watch the video, as you've seen, the tether UFOs are perfectly round.
They're very crisp edges.
They have... Okay, but I've... Number one, I've seen the tether footage.
I have never seen this craft that you've got with it, but apparently it occurs It occurs very quickly.
Have you talked to NASA about this photograph?
Oh, absolutely.
And what does NASA say?
Well, I get different answers from everywhere I go to, and that is one piece of evidence.
The fact that everyone answers the tether differently suggests to me that either no one there really knows anything, or the truth is being obscured by all of the clouds of the different stories I get.
Okay, let's remind the audience.
Now the Tether experiment was an experiment to see if you could lower this.
How long was the Tether?
I'll describe the Tether.
The Tether experiment was basically NASA's first experiment into tapping into what you
might call zero point energy or quantum free energy, permeating the void in space.
Well, okay, I'm not really sure if that's...
I studied it very deeply.
Well, okay, but how long was the Tether?
12 miles long.
Really long.
A long tether which was to conduct electricity along the tether in the form of charged particles that are basically flying everywhere in space.
Lou Frank took a picture with the Polaris satellite in 1997 of the Earth in the ultraviolet spectrum and found that space was supercharged with electrons Ranging from 1.7 million electron volt charges all the way to 14 million electron volt charges.
Okay, let me tell you a little story all right very quickly.
Okay.
I'm a ham operator and I've got a big antenna up about a hundred feet at the center and 50 feet on the ends and this sucker is like 175 feet on each side of center so it's a lot of wire up there David.
Yeah.
And on a windy day That wire will generate enough electricity just from the wind going across the copper to draw a blue arc of electricity about two inches long.
I know because I've been the recipient of its ugly little charge a number of times.
It knocked me on my butt.
So it's kind of the same principle.
It is very similar.
Very similar, except the tether really never did go into the atmosphere, did it?
The tether was up in the ionosphere, which is the charged part of our upper atmosphere.
So as it raced by the tether, it was charging the tether, and they got this incredible voltage, so much voltage, that it snapped the tether, correct?
Exactly.
And they say it snapped in such a precise location that if it had snapped anywhere else, the shuttle could have been in danger of being severely damaged.
It could have blown up.
It could have cut the tether.
Literally ricocheted and did some serious damage to the shuttle.
And again, something very curious appeared in the press about the tether.
In the United Press International in February of 1996, they said that after they had lost contact with the tether, because after the tether breaks, the 12-mile tether drifts about 77 to 100 miles away And three days later, which was February 28th, 1996, the tether was swarmed by what appeared to be giant UFOs.
Now, in the press it says they had a problem when they recaptured the satellite at the end of the tether.
They found that the nitrogen fuel tank was emptied, its steering thruster valves were opened, a gyroscope that had been left on was powered off, and two other gyroscopes remained on.
There was an event on the satellite that we did not understand yet, said astronaut David Wolf told the Columbia crew.
Really?
Now, no one was on that satellite.
No one could have pushed the buttons to manipulate all of those different scientific instruments.
So you're saying something manipulated them?
Something manipulated them.
So that was our first clue in the press that something was going on out there.
And second, when the cameras zoomed in, the black and white cameras held by Claude Nicollier, Zoom in, they basically reveal themselves as clear disks with notches, they're pulsing, and we can clearly see they're passing behind, I have to emphasize, behind the tether.
Now because the camera is at the shuttle, and we're looking at a distance across space of 77 to 100 nautical miles, and these disks are passing behind a 12 mile long ruler, we have relativity.
If they were passing between the shuttle and the lens and the tether, they would appear to pass in front of it, and we could produce an optical illusion making them appear larger than they really are.
But because they're going behind, and it's so obvious, every person I've shown, this really good quality copy I have, it's so obvious they're going behind, you can measure their minimum diameters, and they're an astounding, the large ones, If they're right up next to the back of the tether, they
measure 2 to 3 miles in diameter.
That's an Independence Day-sized craft.
Yes, it is.
And it's... it's... is an argument.
It's an enormous argument.
All right, well, when you go to NASA, for example, Oberg, he's not here yet to be chirping away at you, but if you were to ask Oberg what these are that you've got, the photographs you've got, what would he say?
Well, I'll tell you, first of all, asking Oberg The first answers he gave me were illogical to the real facts, but he first of all said that the tether was out of focus and that's why it appeared so wide.
Which was the first mistake he made, because I'll explain why they found out it appeared so wide.
Because the tether is basically a tenth of an inch strand of Nomax and Kevlar, which you shouldn't even see from a hundred miles away.
Well, whether it was out of focus or not, how does he account for the presence of what you've got right here?
He tries to say that they are floating debris going near the lens of the video camera.
And that they're out of focus because they're so close to the lens and an out-of-focus object produces something called what astronomers call an airy disc which basically is an extremely fuzzy orb around the piece of debris as such as it's called and that was producing the effect.
But even as I've tested and I've used cameras professionally for 20 years There is the likelihood of, first of all, of anything being near the camera lens when the camera is focused on infinity.
The possibility of even seeing anything, even an airy disc, is almost nil.
In fact, most things, including paperclips, if you put them in front of a camera lens, Focus the lens on infinity, you can't even see the pupil.
That's absolutely correct.
I've done enough camera work to know that.
Exactly.
So, and the other thing is an airy disc is so out of focus that the square knots should not appear.
And even in secondary, when I freeze frame the pulses, the spiraling wave is so fine and so perfectly in focus.
Why is that in focus if this is an airy disc?
Why are the three phases of the pulse so crisp?
When, when this is supposed to be out of focus and he also says that the reason they're pulsing is because their debris is tumbling and it's reflecting light.
Oh, you think we've got independent size, Independence Day size craft up there or had them up there near this tether experiment?
Would you hypothesize, would you give us some sort of hypothesis about them?
Why do you think they were there?
Curiosity?
They wanted to affect the experiment?
They wanted to stop us from discovering some new energy source?
What would you imagine would account for their presence near this experiment?
Well, the answers get so incredibly interesting.
It's an enigma that slowly unravels itself with such deeper and deeper, more profound meanings.
First of all, the space shuttle is flying over the west coast of Africa and it just passed over Egypt when this happened.
In February 28th, 1996.
Yes.
Okay.
Now, that's a little auspicious in the beginning, but it gets more auspicious when we go further.
In 19, uh, sorry, last year, 2000, when I was working with Robert Kiviot, the producer of Evidence 2000, uh, sorry, the best Ev-, UFOs the Best Evidence caught on tape 2, a researcher named David Bauer came to me, and he said, uh, Mr. Sirita, have you ever seen a dropostome?
And... A what?
A dropostome.
What's that?
Well, I drove a stone.
No, I said no, I haven't.
And he said, I think you better take a look at this.
On the border of Tibet and China in 1936, the University of Beijing archaeology professors found an archaeology site.
Where they found skeletal remains of little people that are between three and four and a half feet tall with big heads, bulbous heads.
Oh?
They found inside the gravesite round discs with a hole in the middle, a square notch cut out of the side, and a spiraling groove of hieroglyphics radiating counterclockwise out from the center.
Now when I looked at the UFO from the tether in pulse mode, On the first phase of the pulse, it's a round disc with a hole in the middle, with a counterclockwise spiraling wave radiating out from the center and a square notch out of the side.
It was a perfect match.
Now, what are the odds of four criteria being identical in these two incidences?
I researched further, and I researched droplet zones, and basically, to make an extremely interesting and long story short, Um, archaeologists struggled for years to understand the dialogue and the hieroglyphics that were actually imprinted in very small characters inside of the spiraling groove.
Yes.
And it told the story of crash saucers that landed on the Tibetan-Chinese border 12,000 years ago from the star system of Sirius.
Wow.
So, if the UFOs we're seeing on, excuse me, on the Tether Incident, In 1996, we're the same as the UFOs that crashed on the Tibetan-Chinese border in 1936, then we were looking at a star system match, but it gets explosively interesting from this point on.
As soon as I had made the match to Sirius, I started to go to the next level, and I read Robert Temple, who wrote The Sirius Mystery, He's a major astronomer from England and one of Richard Hoagland's
favorite authors.
He quotes him all the time.
And one of Richard Hoagland's favorite star systems is Sirius.
And we learn of a tribe in West Africa called the Dogon tribe who not only knew everything
about the star system of Sirius prior to our astronomers knowing, they knew, they described
Sirius as with a main star and a star.
A B star and a C star, the ancient African tribes said, revolved around the main star every 50 years.
And our best telescopes had seen Sirius B, the second star, in 1970.
1970 and it wasn't until 1996 or 92 that we had seen Sirius C and once we did the
math we found out that they both traveled around the main star every 50
years just like the ancient Dogon priest said.
Now, it gets incredibly interesting because when you read Robert Temple's book, The Sirius Mystery, we learn that the Sirians were known as the water gods who traveled from Sirius in watery spacecraft many thousands of years ago and created the earliest civilizations on our planet.
They created the The goddess Isis, whose chamber is in the Great Pyramid, are the creators of the Egyptian civilization.
The god Owens, who is... Okay, so anyway, what you're really saying is these giant craft have been here for perhaps a very long time, longer than we've been here, during the time we've been here, and they're here now.
I'm saying, and it gets, exactly, there's a strong case to support that.
And when we look back at Lou Frank's waterballs, and we start studying them a little more, I didn't get to go more into them, they appear to be behaving intelligently.
Dr. New said there are so many of these waterballs entering our atmosphere, if they were entering randomly like raindrops, they should have destroyed every satellite in the sky, and he says this with a fury.
Well, he's right.
I mean, one of those impacting a satellite at 35,000 miles an hour, which eventually would occur, would blow it to smithereens.
According to the density, he said it should have already happened.
He said no satellite, not one of our satellites, nor the space shuttle, should survive a day, let alone years, if these were actually coming in.
So that makes your case for intelligent control.
If they were going around the satellites, then they would be intelligent.
And again, Robert Temple describes from the Dogon tribe, who live on the west coast of northern Africa,
precisely where the space shuttle was when this event occurred,
say that they travel in watery crafts that have a kind of like a radiant barrier
or thin metal lining around them to protect them from the intense radiation from the sun
as they travel from Sirius to here.
That is from the ancient knowledge from Sirius.
When you compare that to Lou Frank's data, and you compare it to, uh, and when I tell you what Lou Frank actually wrote to me when he saw the tape, do we have time before we... No, no, we don't.
We've got top of the hour right now, alright?
Okay, I'll go into that when we get back.
Stay right there.
Some people want to play another silly love song.
The look around me, I see it in stone.
Some people want to fill the world with silly love songs.
And what's wrong with that?
I'd like to know.
Cause here I go again.
I love you.
I love you.
Table in a tree in the clouds.
We are sugar and a bird to you.
Dry and rippled tears.
Now gone forever.
You threw their love aside.
Should have been free to give.
Give the love tonight.
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This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
Number one, a reminder everybody, I've got the best Coast photograph ever submitted to Coast to Coast AM, ever sent to me on the website right now, from Montreal, Canada.
It's all at www.artbell.com.
And I've got David B. Cerita, Who's written a book that is yet to come out all about NASA's UFOs.
Now, he's established that NASA uses black and white space shuttle cameras that are equipped to see into the near ultraviolet light spectrum.
He's established that something is coming into our atmosphere occasionally at 35,000 miles an hour.
He's established that these things could not possibly have missed The shuttle, or our geosynchronous satellites, or for that matter, those polar orbiters that are up there, that they should have been destroyed by these things, unless they're intelligent.
He's also saying that their size is that of, well, remember Independence Day?
A mile or two, you know, over the city type size?
And that apparently, they just don't want to get seen.
Now, if you want to see a picture of one of these, you can.
Just go to my website, program tonight's guest info.
Under the name David B. Sarita, you'll see NASA UFOs.
And sure enough, there is one right by the tether.
Or actually behind, according to David, the tether.
So, large alien intelligently controlled craft.
And we've got photographs of them.
Matching the film in England that's locked in a bank vault right now.
You can also read about that on my website.
All of that's up there, and David will be right back.
Back into the night.
Alright, again, if you'll look below David's to read his name on my website, you'll see from the BBC Nottingham online a story called The Truth Is Out There.
And there you will see a photograph of obviously, obviously the same craft, the same phenomena, whatever you want to call it.
They say, is it a jellyfish?
Just a blob?
Or could it be a UFO?
And it is identical to the photograph that David Sirita has, not a very good photograph that David Sirita has on the website because he took a picture of the screen, but that's okay.
It's good enough to identify it as precisely The same thing as the BBC Nottingham has online.
Compare them for yourself.
Large, Independence Day-sized craft.
Now, listen to this.
Reading from some points that David Sirita sent me.
I had just sent the NASA videotape to Dr. Knuth at NASA just before NBC aired Confirmation the Hard Evidence of Aliens Among Us on February 17th of 99.
The word from NASA was obviously not to talk to me anymore.
They called everything debris in front of the camera lens, creating an optical illusion.
So NASA, David, shut down like a steel trap going shut, right?
Exactly.
At that point, Dr. Knuth, and again, in my dialogues with him, I was very scientific.
We went through meters, shooting stars, and space debris, and we eliminated just about everything in regard to Lou Frank's discovery.
And he was being very open with me, and he still is.
He's a wonderful man.
He doesn't, in the end, share my views, but he's incredibly open for a physicist to look at actually both sides.
Previously, Dr. Knuth actually told me he used to work for NASA and actually handle a lot of public relations for people who believe the Earth was hollow.
And that they were UFOs.
All kinds of theories.
You can answer a lot of that stuff.
But all of a sudden when this was going to be aired on NBC, he was told to shut up.
Even though he still communicates at some level with you.
Exactly.
There was suddenly a communication breakdown.
And following that I did an FOIA on him.
Which resulted in him getting quite angry with me.
You did a freedom of information inquiry and what did you find out?
Well, it's quite hilarious.
He sent me everything that I had sent him.
He said the entire file consists of everything you've sent me and there's nothing else.
Well, I had a good laugh and he had a good laugh and he said there's no other file here other than yours.
Oh, come on.
That's what he said, of course.
So he sent your own file back to you?
He sent my own file back to me and he said he wasn't really that open about going any further.
And again, when I looked at the news, there were congressional hearings about and statements made by Congress saying the same thing, that all of these phenomena were just debris in front of the camera.
Alright, now he did write to you, February 22nd, and said...
Or made the following admission, if the phenomena is interesting enough to deserve an investigation, then our preference would be for controlled experiments that closely duplicate the circumstances of the original observation and test our working hypothesis until they are either verified or falsified.
So, it's pretty obvious to me that they were upset that, you know, this was going to go on TV nationally on NBC.
They wanted a quiet experiment, the results of which could be held within, say, NASA.
Exactly.
I think I've got it.
They want a controlled experiment.
Once that public perception had gotten out from Jack Kasher's STS-48, they were worried.
And Jack Kasher just had a little ball of something that zipped out into space, and the Martin Subbs collection has footage making high-speed 45-degree turns, There is some footage of an... I have footage of an object moving over the curvature of the Earth and disappearing on the horizon, confirming it couldn't be dust near the camera lens because of disappearing on the horizon and moving over the curvature.
And this one little ball, which I don't know if you've seen this footage, moves over a conservative 1,000 miles of Earth-space distance in 4 seconds.
And when you do some math on that, that comes to .88 million miles per hour.
A meteorite shooting stars top at about 45,000 miles an hour compared to Dr. Newt.
So something going .8 million miles an hour is extremely high velocity.
The other thing about it is the space shuttle, according to Newt, is usually orbiting the
Earth at around 300 miles, and the top of the atmosphere is at 100 miles.
Right.
A lot of times you'll see objects on the tape that are streaking over huge distances above the top of the atmosphere.
You shouldn't be able to see meteorites above the atmosphere.
They're dark bodies that are only visible when they burn into the atmosphere.
Sure.
The other thing Newt reveals to me, he gives me so much information.
He says, unless a meteorite was massive, Meaning, like the meteorite that struck Russia and created the Tunguska event, it would disappear in a matter of a few kilometers and burn up.
So when you see something that's streaking over a thousand miles of Earth-space distance and not burning up, it's either a massive meteorite, which you can deduct it wasn't because we didn't have an explosion on the Earth or an impact, or it's some unknown object.
And again, based on the speed of this one particular object that I'm talking about, the only thing that could come close to that kind of a speed, going back to my conversation with Earl Van Landingham at NASA, he said that utilizing deuterium-helium 3 fusion in a miniature reactor, you could produce 18 MeV antiprotons, 18 MeV means protons charged at 18 million electron volts, You could build propulsion devices to go one-tenth the speed of light.
One-tenth the speed of light comes to about 67 million miles per hour.
So nuclear propulsion systems are capable of producing the kind of velocities of the object in question that I saw down on the Earth.
And I don't know if you got the fax I sent you, but in regards to Area 51 in Nevada, EG&G, which is one of the largest defense contractors in the United States, it has bases in Nevada near Area 51.
Oh, I'm very well aware.
Both in their, I don't want to say both, but in the history section on their website, I quote, at the nuclear rocket development station in Nevada, operated by EG&G, Phobos 2A, the most powerful nuclear reactor yet developed for space propulsion, is successfully tested.
That's back in 1968.
NASA doesn't use nuclear propulsion systems right now.
They're developing them, but they're not actually using them.
The Space Shuttle doesn't use them.
The Apollo missions didn't use them.
So if they were successful with nuclear propulsion systems in Nevada back in 1968, You can't even imagine where they might be at today.
Well, I'm so interested in the apparent evidence we have.
This village of Basel thing, which now, by the way, is again in a bank.
The footage of this UFO that is identical to the one you have.
And they say they expect a bidding war to break out from the major television networks
to try and get their hands on this footage.
But this would be footage of something that would be a mile or two in size and identical
to what you have next to the tether experiment.
That just blew my mind when a man named Colin Stevens in England, after I put up my website
of some of the tether UFOs, he emailed it to me saying that he was basically peeing
himself.
I bet it did blow your mind.
It did blow my mind.
I literally stood in front of the mirror last night for half an hour, unable to move, because not only was it absolute confirmation for me, seeing the same three criteria in the architecture of the craft, the notch out of the side, the hole in the middle, it was so stunning to me, and I connected the whole thing back to Sirius.
You know, back to where I believe these craft are from.
And these are the ancient godfathers and godmothers of our civilization.
Maybe truly our fathers and mothers.
What do you think would be, and obviously this is just speculation, but I mean what do you think their motivation for continually visiting here would be?
Okay, well I've got some scientific data on that.
And again, Going back to the water balls, one of the first things I said to Dr. Knuth, and remember, the Assyrians are known as the water gods, who in Egypt said they ruled the planet 10,000 years ago from the waters.
Now, water balls being dropped on our atmosphere seems kind of odd at first, but when you consider...
Actually, you know what, David? It doesn't. I mean, I've heard astronomers say that they too believe, in fact, that
that's how Earth was originally seeded, if you believe in evolution.
That comets and ice balls crashing into the atmosphere are what seeded Earth with life.
That's a fairly mainstream view.
And there are a lot of people who think these things come crashing into our atmosphere all the time.
Not comet-sized, but about the size you're talking about.
Exactly.
Actually, you're correct.
Now, what water does is it breaks down under intense solar radiation at about 1800 degrees
Fahrenheit.
Hydrogen separates from oxygen.
The O2 transforms into O3, which is ozone, under solar radiation.
So I asked Dr. Knuth, could these little balls be healing our ozone layer?
And he answered me back, his preliminary answer was they would definitely be producing some
ozone but he didn't know how much.
Now, could that be a benevolent sign that the water gods from Sirius, could they be
And again, there have been many sightings which I have been able to document of UFOs off the coast of Hawaii in South America, scooping up water in their craft and flying up above the Earth.
Could they be trying to heal our atmosphere, our health?
Give us, buy us more time by producing more ozone in this fashion.
Well, I know it's something we're concerned with.
There are a lot of people who believe that the incredible HAARP experiments that are going on right now are also an earthly attempt to try to affect some sort of cure of the atmosphere as well.
Yeah, exactly.
I've read a lot about HAARP and a lot of that scares me.
Well, it's because there's some scary stuff going on right now, environmentally, with the Earth.
I mean, there is no question about that.
So you think they might be our friends.
They might be right there.
They might be our friends, and that's what Robert Temple, when he studied the Dogon tribe, their philosophy, they first of all prophesy the return of the Nomos from Sirius, as they're called, and that when they come back, it will be called the Day of the Fish.
And they actually have drawings of UFOs with little fish's tails floating in the water to describe their watery-like nature.
And he describes them as environmentalists.
And the first thing they would do, at the very end of Temple's book, he says they would be concerned about our oceans.
And, you know, it makes sense.
First of all, we're losing our atmosphere.
By deforestation, we're losing a lot of our oxygen, and oxygen is how we get ozone.
It's the way we produce it.
Chlorofluorocarbons are actually destroying it, but if we destroy the forest, we destroy the lungs that are actually producing the oxygen, which turn into ozone.
Well, we know we're doing that.
One of the most visible things from space is the burning of the Amazon, the fires that are going on down there.
Exactly.
Unbelievable what we're doing.
All right, well, I think these extraterrestrials are showing many benevolent signs, including what I believe is a signal pointing towards zero-point energy.
Which, to some degree, was what the tether experiment was all about.
I'm curious, David, with the incredible results they had of that tether experiment, the unusual results, they should have been so puzzled That we would have by now done another experiment, done something else.
Why did that not propel NASA into almost immediately trying something else?
Well, they did.
In 1996, NASA opened up the Breakthrough Propulsion Physics program in Ohio with the whole goal of literally finding beyond light speed propulsion systems Zero Point Energy Research, all headed by a 39-year-old physicist named Mark Millis.
And was that a coincidence?
Franklin Chang-Diaz, a physicist who was aboard STS-75, he became, this was in Popular Science, November 1989, 1999, Franklin Chang-Diaz, who was a physicist, Costa Rican-born American physicist, suddenly developed a new pulse plasma magnetic rocket called the Vesemir for
NASA.
He becomes the head of the Advanced Space Propulsion Laboratory in Houston.
All right, but David, NASA is supposed to be an open organization,
a scientific organization funded by our government, which means funded by us.
And the results of NASA's experiments or knowledge gained is supposed to be a shared available thing,
really, certainly to the U.S. citizens and really the world.
So why would they suddenly take something like this and want to take it all in-house?
And you know not have an external discussion of it and shy away complete when they hear it's going on NBC Just shut everything down Well, the press isn't that good at running the stories, but if you look inside, for instance, the Breakthrough Propulsion Physics program in Ohio is well advertised on the internet.
They're extremely open-minded over there and looking into zero-point energy.
Again, Dr. Louis A. Frank took photos of the Earth in 1997.
Well, if they're so open, then why did they shut down, you know, when you went to Dr. Knuth?
when I went to doctor and when I well he he continued to have conversations me
but again if you consider the Brookings report in 1958 okay well then wait how
did you will get to Brookings the word from NASA was obviously not to talk to
me anymore about this so now how did you derive that they did okay but fine how
did you know that the word was out not to talk to you well as soon as as soon
as confirmation aired on NBC there was an immediate shutdown but yet news kept
talking to me he kept giving me more information he taught me how to think
and I don't know if he was inadvertently doing that or if he was intentionally
teaching me how to think like an astrophysicist so I could make my own
Gotcha.
And he couldn't come out and say them publicly because I've never seen anyone at NASA and I haven't seen a UFO researcher.
If you look at the collection of letters that I have and the detail, phenomenal detail in these letters in my book, you'll see that he's teaching me.
He's teaching me so much that I could make my own My own.
When is your book going to be out, by the way?
Well, I'm looking for a publisher now, and believe me, it's quite difficult when, you know, considering the circumstances.
I ended up showing it to Dan Aykroyd, and he was blown away by the book.
He wrote an awesome forward to it, which I think you've read.
I have.
Dan Aykroyd, of course, had his own sighting, so.
Once you've had a sighting, and I had my first in 1968 when I was a little kid in Berkeley, The question about UFOs is gone from day one.
I know.
I was seven years old coming home from school and there was a disk in the Bay Area in Berkeley and every person on the street was running out looking at it.
So for me, from day one, this whole thing is real.
For James Oldbrook, it may not be because he may not have seen it.
Oh, it is real.
No, it is real.
I have seen one myself, a large triangle.
I'm sure you've heard of it.
Yeah, I know about your site because I've been listening to your show.
You're right.
From that day forward, you know they are there.
There is only a question about where they are from and what they are.
Not that they are there.
I know they're there.
Yeah.
But what you're describing here, a craft of this size.
Holy smokes, David.
Enormous.
enormous and if they're further behind each other than I think they could be
five miles they could be ten miles in diameter that's conservative suggesting
they're right behind each other if they're far behind it then these things
are even larger than that and your contention is our eyes don't see them
well Or at least don't see them easily, but NASA cameras operating in a spectrum above what we can see, see them with ease.
See them with ease, and maybe even what they're seeing is only the residue of an even higher dimension of energy that they're radiating.
Maybe up into the X-ray and gamma ray, and zero-point energy is even higher than gamma.
In other words, we could just be seeing the edge of their energy output.
Exactly.
I've got you.
All right.
Hold on, David.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
I'm going to see if I'm able to get James Oberg on the telephone, and we'll have a little conversation between the two of these gentlemen.
NASA Mission Control Veteran is what Mr. Oberg is.
As well as a buff on space age mythology and a self-described debunker.
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
Love...
Love...
All the nights in my world They feel like painted skirts
In the day, nothing matters, it's the night, turnin' my life, in the night
In the day, lost in my thoughts In the night, turning my look
In the night, no control Oh, the night is my world, baby like, ain't it good?
No control, through the walls, something's breaking Wearing white, as you're walking, down the street, of my
soul You take my self, you take my self control
Wanna take a ride? Call Arkbell, from west of the Rockies, at 1-800-618-8255, east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033
First time callers may reach our debt, 1-775-727-1222 The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
And to call out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
That would be me.
Good morning, everybody.
call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
I, I live among the creatures of the night.
That would be me.
Good morning everybody, I'm Art Bell.
All kinds of things going on on the website right now.
A photograph of a ghost that defies explanation.
Best I've ever seen from Montreal.
You take a look.
It's called Montreal Ghost.
Be interested in hearing from you.
We have, of course, with us David Sirita right now, talking about NASA UFOs in it, in a moment, coming up.
He is a NASA mission control veteran.
They don't frequently speak out at all.
Unnamed James Oberg, Jim Oberg.
And he's also a buff on space age mythology.
And his own word, his word, a debunker.
Stay right there.
David Sirita has drawn quite a picture for you, folks.
He's got evidence in the form of photographs on my website.
NASA photographs, I might add.
Of something that matches up perfectly with something seen in England so secret it's locked in a bank vault right now.
We've talked about the whys and the wherefores of it all, and now what I'm going to do, uh, let's be sure David is still there.
Are you there, David?
Here I am.
Good, all right.
I want to bring on Um, I guess somebody that you've had conversations with before.
Have you?
Oh yeah, a lot.
A lot, huh?
Lots of emails from James Oberg.
From James Oberg.
Um, have you ever actually encountered him in person?
No.
Oh!
I picture that he looked like Mike Tyson.
Mike Tyson, we'll find out here in a minute.
He wanted to kill me.
Well, he is a NASA mission control veteran, a buff on space age mythology.
Don't you like that, David?
And a debunker.
So, here he is from Texas, where it's pretty late in the morning.
Are all those descriptions are fair?
You gave those to me earlier for you, didn't you, James?
I sure did, and there's more data on my homepage.
JamesOberg.com.
Hi, David, and I sure appreciate some of the research you've mentioned, because, for example, Franklin Chang's propulsion system is a real cool idea, and I'm sure glad he's, I hope he keeps getting support, even with his cutbacks.
All right, even, just before we get into that, you were a NASA mission control veteran.
Right.
You were for NASA how long?
I was, as a contractor, I was working there from 75 through about 97.
22 years I was working there on the first shuttle flights, did orbital rendezvous work, picked up that satellite, the LDEF satellite with all the tomato seeds in it, and then helped design the initial orbits for the space station.
Alright, well I'm looking at the photographs on my website that David provided.
NASA's UFOs, he calls them, and I think that's where we ought to start.
I mean, there is the... there's a picture of the tether, and behind it is this one to two mile or larger spacecraft that David says the black and white cameras on the shuttle captured.
If we're not seeing that, what are we seeing, James?
Well, I'll have to explain to you what I think, because David didn't get it right.
Either I didn't make it clear or got garbled.
What we're seeing are things that we see all the time on our shuttle pictures.
These are cameras, by the way, the black and white ones.
They're pretty ordinary light cameras.
I don't know where this ultraviolet range story came from, but they pick up the visible light, black and white, and the same things people see with their eyes out there.
Often there'll be things around the shuttle, and this kind of debris is pretty common.
You get to see this, and I've watched it for hundreds of hours in the control center.
Often these are the kind of shots, the vacation film, you throw away your bad shots and don't put the dirty ones out there, but they're pretty common.
So what we're seeing here is the tether.
Now, it's at sunset.
Because it's lit by the sun.
And I don't know why they would say you shouldn't be able to see it because it's too thin.
I saw the cutter myself from the street in front of my house.
That's right.
It was visible from Earth.
Yeah, David, you were saying it should be invisible.
I don't understand why you said that.
Well, when you had written me one of your letters, you had actually made the comment to me that it was so thin, and I later found on a report on NASA's website that the reason it was so thick-looking was because there was a charged ionized gas that formed around the tether.
You never saw that on NASA's website, David.
Yeah, I know exactly where that is, and I have the report, so that's there.
Now, what you're seeing there is just the On the Vidicon, on the tube, you're just seeing the, what do you call them, the images, the bits on there.
And they get wider because it's a digital screen.
But James, the tether was glowing.
No, the tether was sunlit.
According to the report, it had a sheath of gas around it.
And I have that actual report from NASA's website, and also... You better send that to me, David, because I don't believe it.
I watched the tether.
I worked the mission.
None of what you're saying about the mission is anything remotely similar to reality.
And anybody can verify that by checking on all the open data.
You throw words around like zero-point energy on the tether, or charged ions causing electric sparks.
That's just gobbledygook.
You just throw words around because I guess you want to impress people, but those kind of words don't apply to this.
The tether had a spark, David, because it was a wire moving through a magnetic field.
Earth's magnetic field.
That created the charge on it.
Nothing to do with zero-point energy.
You made that up.
No, I didn't make it up, James.
It's on the company called Tethers Unlimited that makes tethers.
I researched the data on why they made the tether.
There's different reasons they make tethers.
But the idea was to produce energy for the space station.
Potentially for the space station.
James, I take that energy from the magnetic field of the Earth.
Zero-point energy has nothing to do with it.
You misunderstood.
Hold on, everybody.
Hold on.
James, one quick question.
I remember distinctly NASA officially admitting that there was apparently far more energy than they expected.
I mean, that's why it snapped, right?
It had energy, that's right, and the energy is created by a wire moving through a magnetic field at a high speed.
It's called a motor.
In this case, the motor was the shuttle, and this wire strung out 20 kilometers and moving through the field.
What happened is, and of course it snapped there, just at the end, it wasn't an accident, it snapped there, that's where the insulation was rubbing on the pulleys.
Eventually, there was an arc there, and that arc just burned through the wire.
Yeah, but there still was more energy, according to NASA, than they expected, than they calculated.
That's right.
They just didn't know how much energy was going to be calculated.
They reeled it out to find out.
That's why you do these experiments, to find out how close your expectations are.
But the energy was coming from electrodynamic energy.
Nothing to do with ions in the atmosphere, or nothing to do with zero-point energy.
It was purely a matter of electrodynamic energy.
And it wasn't glowing.
It was sunlit.
And I've seen it.
I have the data on it being charged gas, and it's from NASA's website.
I'm very, very certain of it.
I have it.
I don't believe it.
Well, I'll send it to you, James.
I'll send you exactly where it is.
Right off the... I don't believe it, David, because I've never found you understand anything else.
I have it.
I have it.
And I'm not going to argue with it anymore.
Okay, hold it, hold it, hold it, everybody.
Try one at a time, otherwise we can't hear you.
All right.
Best you can.
You know, Dr. News is a very kind man there, and he's assigned your letters.
You sent them yourself.
He's the guy that gave the Flat Earth people to.
And he would send polite letters to people and talk to them, and they sent you to him too.
Joe Knuth confirmed with me that the black and white cameras on the shuttle look into the near ultraviolet spectrum, and I actually found from Department of Defense, I was a defense contractor myself, so I know how to research on defense, a company that makes the sensor that allows the shuttle camera, the black and white camera, to see into the near ultraviolet and the infrared spectrum, as well as the visible.
They sometimes retrofit black and white cameras to see in infrared, sometimes into the near ultraviolet, And the sensors allow them not to see into x-rays and gamma rays, but are sensitive to x-rays and gamma ray energy with special sensors... These are off-the-shelf closed-circuit TVs.
They stick them in there to watch the operation of the payload bay, watch the payloads, and they turn them on at night sometimes to look for thunderstorms.
These are off-the-shelf cameras?
Sure, they're only... No, no, this isn't... I've got all the data on this from NASA.
I've got Joe Nusse even helping with it.
He confirmed with me.
So whatever you're saying, I'm just going to have to send you emails of all this data that I got directly from NASA.
Put it on your website, because that's where people are going to look for it.
Yeah.
Next to the pictures there.
I mean, it's all in my book.
I mean, the details, the finest details from... I've talked to a number of people at NASA.
You're one, and I've gotten different answers... Zero point energy?
Zero point energy on the tether?
Was that told to you by someone at NASA?
Quantum...
I'm not going to go into, you know, with you arguing what zero-point energy is because it's something that NASA is spending money and research on right now.
It's something they very much believe in.
No, you're dodging.
David, you're dodging.
I don't care about the research.
I know that they're doing research.
I'm talking about the Tether experiment.
You attributed that energy on the Tether that caused the line to snap in 1996 to zero-point energy.
But why is it not possible?
James, you're confused.
James, why is it not possible that with the tremendous Excessive energy they had on that tether, that at least one possibility is that some of it could have been what's called zero-point energy.
Well sure, some of it could be steam energy, and some of it could be windmill energy, and some of it could be gerbil energy.
It's always possible.
There's no need for it.
Uh, David, you said when they got the satellite back, they found the stuff had been reset in the satellite's computer?
That's from United Press International, and that was an article ran in February 1998.
I have it right in front of me.
I mean, February 1996.
You have it right in front of you.
It doesn't say they got the satellite back, because they didn't get the satellite back.
They never did.
They never got it back.
Did you make that up or did you just misunderstand it?
From all what no when they get lost content says First radio signals from the satellite caused engineers
some surprise the configuration of several systems had changed from when that was a lot like back
With a satellite Okay, well you were unclear about that.
They made contact, they remade contact with it.
Okay, well you were unclear about that.
Okay, well that's a minor point, but they were able to determine that the nitrogen fuel
tank was empty, the steering thrust valves were open, a gyroscope that had been left
on was powered off while two other gyroscopes remained on.
And how does all this equipment get controlled from the shuttle?
Through the tether.
Yeah, through, by what?
By, uh, sending notes on the tether, or what, or sending electrical signals on the tether?
Well, it broke.
Yeah.
So how, they lost the... Because of electrical, electricity pulse in the tether.
Yes.
Well, anyway, this is going into how those instruments and knobs were turned.
Does it say knobs returned?
A thruster valve was emptied?
A valve?
Did it say knobs returned?
Well, I'm assuming a valve has been... You're assuming, right.
You've said a lot of things you've been assuming to make a better story.
But you're not reading your source materials very well, and you're not communicating very accurately.
You're just making a better story with all these extra details you're making up.
This is right out of... Mind you, the press could be a little off.
I am not...
Just by the tone of the letters you've sent to me in comparison to Lou Frank and Joe Knuth and other people at NASA I've talked to who are very open and technical with me, you tend to try to come out and just kind of Uh, they kind of slam everything, uh, kind of like a, a boxer, but you, you don't seem to get into it.
What have I brought up in the past ten minutes that that's unfair?
What's that?
What have I brought up in the last ten minutes?
Well, you just said to me that the, the nitrogen, uh, sorry, the gas around the tether wasn't ionized, and that wasn't what caused it to glow, and I have it clearly in their report, very clearly.
You're saying it doesn't exist.
Well, there's a lot of information... The picture on the television, the picture on the television, it's a picture of the sunlit tether.
I know what you're saying, but I'm saying from the report.
Remember on the video it says, the tether seems to resemble a much wider strand than we'd expect.
Can you describe what you're seeing?
That was from ground control.
No one answered why the tether appeared wider than they would expect.
And then later in the report, which is in the dailies on NASA's website, they describe The gas becoming ionized around it and giving it a luminous effect.
That's in the report.
I mean, there is so much information at NASA that not everybody knows.
I don't expect you to know everything, and there's no way you can tell me that you know everything about every mission.
It's just not possible.
Joe News has candidly admitted to me that he does not know everything about every mission.
Nobody does.
How about the tether?
We saw the tether.
We worked that mission.
You couldn't have saw it when it was flying over the west coast of northern Africa, or could you?
I saw it flying over Texas.
Well, when this event happened, it was over the west coast of northern Africa, and that's stated on the audio.
When the audio clip, someone is speaking, I'm pretty certain it's from one of the astronauts that we are No, actually it's probably from ground control that we are over the West Coast of Northern Africa.
You couldn't have seen it then.
I can't imagine how you would have unless you were over somewhere on the Earth.
We saw it on television.
What's that?
We saw it on television.
We saw the images.
Yeah, we saw the images and then we saw the swarm.
what is now called the swarm that may be, you know, you're debunking and you have that
right considering that you work or you're associated with NASA and the Brookings report,
I don't believe personally...
What do you have to do with the Brookings report?
I don't believe personally...
I never heard of the Brookings report.
Well we won't go there if you haven't heard of it.
James, you've never heard of the Brookings?
I have, not at work.
I have in my space age mythology interest, but that's nothing... Do you think that Brookings is mythological?
I think it's a real report.
It's one of 10 or 20,000 reports the government's paid for the past 40 years.
And are you aware of the conclusions reached in that report?
Sure.
They said people would freak out if they heard that there's news of aliens, so we shouldn't tell them.
Exactly.
There's the point that I wanted to make.
Now, considering... How about all the other reports that says we should tell them?
Well, considering you can, there's so many reports out there, David, you can pick any report you want, and tie it to, you tie this all together to the Dogen, and to the water gods of Sirius, and to, and to the ice, the poor, uh, the ice steroids are coming in that, uh, uh, these poor scientists are looking forward to, like, like, uh, uh, Lou, Lou Frank, and, and, uh, you put it all into this great big picture, but to do it by, By just, uh, cutting off corners that don't fit.
James, uh... That's all hearsay, what you're saying, James, and I think... Hearsay.
I think the way you're presenting this is you are trying to defend NASA in not allowing disclosure to happen.
I personally don't trust you because of who you work for.
If you came out to me and said that there was a UFO, I don't even know if I would believe that it was true.
Who do I work for, David?
You're an associate of NASA.
David, I work for myself.
I'm an independent writer.
I think you're an associate.
I remember in your letter you said you finished working for them in 97.
That's right.
You're an associate.
And for a long time associated with that.
I don't believe that you would allow disclosure to happen.
So anything that you say... Well, tell me this.
You said that Franklin Chang got interested in this plasma engine after the tether flight.
Is that what you said?
No, I said that he developed the Pulse Plasma.
I actually researched his patents.
He had an earlier design back in... And Franklin Chang has flown in a number of missions.
He may have seen these things before out there, but his Pulse Plasma rocket... He may not have.
What?
He may not have.
He may or may not have.
As far as I'm concerned, and the world's concerned, he may have.
And as far as you're concerned, Um, you're saying you're the funder.
Well, I think sometimes, look at these circles with the notch cut out of them.
There's a couple things that we have to realize about those circles with the notch.
First, the picture you have from England doesn't have a notch cut out of it.
It does.
The author, the woman who held the camera, said it has a bite out of the side of it.
It does seem to have an indentation in it.
He actually described it in the literature.
He says it has a bite out of the side.
Now, if you can't see it because it's on an angle, look closely.
It's there, but he describes it as having a bite out of the side of it.
The notches on the pictures of these objects, I think that the good explanation for them is that they were out of focus point light sources of some sort.
And when they get out of focus, they make these notches.
All the notches tend to be oriented in the same direction.
No, they're not.
I'd like to see if they're all in different directions.
Depending on where they are on the screen.
Shut up, David.
Depending on where they are on the screen, they have the same orientation.
As things move across the screen, the orientation of the notch changes.
But if you were to take a look at a whole bunch of these, and map each one, you'd see that in the lower left-hand corner of the screen, the notch is in one quadrant.
In the upper left-hand corner, the notch points the other way.
And that clearly shows the notches of some kind of camera artifact.
And you're also controlling that because a few hours later there's a nice shot of a whole field of discs with notches in them.
And you watch it for a few minutes and suddenly it focuses and you see it's a constellation of stars.
All right, gentlemen.
I disagree completely.
I know you do.
You haven't seen that video and you don't want to show people.
Gentlemen, time, time, time.
Everybody hold on.
We'll be right back.
In the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM.
Ex-NASA guy, David Sirita, the objects we're looking at on the website, and a bit of a discussion underway.
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Um, I'm curious.
Somebody's got a dictionary handy out there.
Look up the word debunker for me.
Debunker.
What does debunker mean?
How does the dictionary define debunker?
Fast blast it to me, and we'll get it on the air here.
I'm very curious.
Debunker.
Tell me which dictionary you got it from and just type out the explanation and send it to me in a fast blast.
I want to ask James about the same thing.
We've got James O'Byrke here.
He's a NASA mission control veteran.
A buff on space mythology and a debunker.
I'm not so sure about debunker.
David V. Sirita has been my guest, oh I don't know, for over a couple of hours now and we're talking about some incredible photographs that David's got up there.
Photographs that seem to show a large craft near the tether.
Now wait a minute, we might have it here.
The bunker.
Uh, to show up a claim.
Or theory as false.
To show up a claim or theory as false.
So it doesn't say in there necessarily with facts.
It just says to do that.
To make it appear false.
We'll ask James how he describes it here in a moment.
Get some more from Fast Blast.
Stay right where you are.
All right, well.
Let's see.
Debunker.
To disprove.
To expose or ridicule the falseness, sham, or exaggerated claims of... to debunk a supposed miracle drug, for example.
Generally, though, to expose the sham or falseness of.
Is that a dictionary explanation that you would... definition you would be happy with, James?
Oh, wait a minute.
Now, there you are, James.
Would your real charter go back to the Robertson panel?
Oh, I shouldn't have said that.
Oops, my mistake.
Well, you want a clear way.
There's signals behind this, and it's just, as you know, just difficult to get to the signals.
And if there's any distractions, people get lost in the distractions.
If I didn't think there could be useful things found in these kind of examinations, I wouldn't spend time on it.
And the problem is with sincere Young man, like David here, is that everything he says about physics is contrary to what I know about physics, and water and space is an example.
We had a report from the current shuttle mission.
A pilot reported on the way up into space, he says, well, we saw at about Mach 23, out the corner of our eyes, some ice particles whizzing by, pretty spectacular.
And David somehow couldn't believe this.
I'd like for him to explain why he doesn't believe they saw ice particles.
David?
Um, I'd like to read a letter from Lou Frank to me, who is a National Space Act award-winning astrophysicist who has seen the tether and has seen the videos.
Okay, good.
Go ahead.
It's a very short letter, but I'll read it to you.
Go.
Dear David, I have received your second video and letter dated the 2nd of December 1999.
I find the contents of both videos fascinating.
There are several objects, which may be small comets, which are the water balls, in the videos.
Other phenomena regarding the tether being recorded in the videos are not easily explained.
Several of us have examined the videos many times.
I am very interested in speaking with you on the phone concerning the contents of the videos.
This is...
Luke Frank, who is the principal investigator with the plasma instrumentation on the Galileo mission to Jupiter, several of our spacecraft that are roaming the solar system right now, Luke Frank is in charge of.
He's a brilliant astrophysicist who many times, which I have read in his data, has had to Eliminate the hypothesis that debris are in front of the camera lens, and he does it brilliantly, and he actually eliminates that in his own investigation into these new phenomena that he's discovering.
Alright then, James, if somebody at that level... David, which spacecraft is he in charge of?
Uh, he's, uh, I'm quoting, he's, he's in charge of the plasma instrumentation on the... Oh, no, no, you said he was in charge of the spacecraft.
No, I said he was in charge of the plasm... You must have misheard me or I said the word too quickly.
He's in charge of the plasma... No, no, no, let's not... Hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it!
Let's not get hung up in semantics.
If he is... For accuracy.
Alright, for accuracy, fine, but this is obviously somebody of...
Pretty big heavyweight, um, who is agreeing this certainly is extremely anomalous.
You won't even go that far, James.
Why, why would, uh... Pictures are pretty extraordinary, but you have to know about the Space Shuttle and the Space Shuttle cameras to understand, uh, what they're probably being caused by.
And, uh, frankly, Frank didn't work, uh, uh, with the Space Shuttle.
So, uh, he's certainly understandable why, why he'd be puzzled like everyone else is puzzled, because they are extraordinary pictures.
They are.
They are very impressive visual images.
Well, then why don't you allow for the possibility that they might be something other than what you're proffering here?
Well, because there are other pictures that go with them that won't be shown on David's website or won't be shown in the Smoking Gun video.
I have all the video uncut and I'm willing to show it.
I just don't have a way of proliferating it to the public.
The video that shows stars, a star field going out of focus and appearing as a set of discs with notches in them?
You got that video too?
Yeah, that's a very radical interpretation of what you're saying.
James, my stepfather is also from Texas and gave me a telescope when I was 9 years old.
I've been a professional photographer on the side... You're changing the subject here.
...for 20 years.
No, I'm going to go back to it.
I have been looking through lenses and telescopes and video cameras and other cameras for 20 years.
I have never seen the apparitions of these airy disks with square notches in my life.
I've never seen also Every disc appears to go behind a distant background object, which is called a field reversal effect.
I have never seen it.
I don't know how you can say that these discs are passing in front of the tether when they're clearly passing behind it.
Well, because of the visual characteristics of the camera.
You're doing semantics to try to get out of it.
I've heard all the arguments on this.
These cameras are regular off-the-shelf cameras designed to watch mechanical things in the pale of day.
They're not scientific instruments.
They are not off-the-shelf cameras.
I've got that confirmed from Joe Knuth, and I actually know the company who makes the sensors.
So you're just going... You're just trying to steer the audience in a direction that is not true.
The camera's been flying this way for over 20 years, and I've been the Mission Control watching the video from them for that long.
And we've seen what happens with bright objects, this particular kind of Vidicon, because it's got an image intensifier, and especially at low light levels, it can get over bright in the middle of a bright white field.
And just for prevent and burn out, the Vidicon, the center...
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That's right.
Our universe may have been planted before. Our universe may have simply popped into existence out of nothing.
Because it doesn't exist.
It would be very close to us.
That's right. And that's the cause of the enormous amount of articles in the New York Times,
Time Magazine, Music Magazine.
There could be another universe perhaps a millimeter away from our universe.
Now, remember the novel, The Invisible Man?
Yes.
If you read H.G.
Wells' novel, how did the man become invisible?
Well, he was blown into the fourth dimension, hyperspace, and he hovered about an inch off our universe.
Now think about it.
If you're hovering an inch off our universe, you're invisible.
Light would go right underneath you.
You could look down and see our universe.
But people in our universe couldn't see you.
And so that's why he was invisible.
He's an awful invisible man.
Would there be, conceivably, another universe as populated as this one and very much like or very much different from this one?
Well, we don't know.
However, the speculation is that if there's another bubble just a millimeter away from our bubble, you would feel its gravity.
The other universe would be invisible just like the invisible man.
So, it could be a paradigm for dark matter.
Of course, this is still wild speculation.
But, some of the people at MIT are seriously proposing this as a model for dark matter.
That dark matter is invisible, but it has gravity.
Just like another alternate universe that's about a millimeter away from ours would be invisible if light was underneath it.
But, it would have gravity, as gravity goes across hyperspace.
But I'm wondering, what's the greatest hope we have?
If we were to pop into it, would we be lonely, looking back at this, and invisible?
Or would we be in a completely alternate place?
Well, we would be in a completely alternate place.
It's not clear what the laws of physics would be.
Currently, we think that the mental laws of physics, the laws of all these bubbles, is something called superstition, right?
The theory of a 10-dimensional hyperspace.
So we think that The method theory that governs all these bubbles is string theory.
However, there are many solutions of string theory.
Millions of them.
Each one, perhaps, corresponds to one of these bubbles.
Now, in these other bubbles, they may look like different stars.
They may have protons that decay very rapidly, so there's no DNA.
However, maybe there's a universe that is just one quantum event different from our universe.
Maybe a cosmic ray went to Hitler's mother.
And Hitler was never born because of one cosmic ray that caused the miscarriage in Hitler's mother.
That universe is only one quantum event different from our universe, except they never had World War II.
Gentlemen, gentlemen, I've got to break in for a second.
Gentlemen, hold on.
I've got to break in for a second.
I am just told by Master Control, you're not going to believe this, or maybe David, you will, for the second time in all the years that I've been in broadcasting, about three minutes ago, or four minutes ago, we lost our satellite.
We actually lost our satellite.
It would appear we lost our satellite.
I've never had this happen before.
We're now back on the air.
I've connected this by what's called an ISDN line, which is a secondary way of getting the signal from where I am to the network.
So we lost about the last three or four minutes of discussion between the two.
So backtrack a little bit, gentlemen.
Okay, it was me talking.
Basically I was saying that NASA used ultraviolet cameras, Lou Frank was using ultraviolet cameras
on the DE spacecraft back in 1985.
He's now using the Polaris satellite, which has a much better ultraviolet camera on it
to see his alleged water balls, which are only appearing in the ultraviolet spectrum.
Joe Knuth wrote me and said, one of the confusing things about Lou Frank's discovery
is they're not visible in the visible spectrum and the infrared spectrum, which they should be,
according to their data.
The fact that they're seeing an object that only appears in the ultraviolet
is consistent with the idea that I'm hypothetically saying here
that these UFOs are only appearing in the ultraviolet, which is a wavelength higher than the human eye can see.
So to answer James' question, why didn't people see them from the ground?
One, they were either too far away.
Two, the tether and satellite was over the West Coast of Northern Africa.
Nobody in North America would have seen it.
And three, they may have been invisible to the astronauts' naked eye or not.
The astronauts, if they did not see them with their naked eye and saw them through the camera,
they also may have been confused and thought perhaps they were debris
or they didn't know what they were because they were not visible to the naked eye.
Okay, one, two, three, David.
One, they're too far away.
You're saying they're miles wide.
Two miles, maybe five miles wide.
Against the length of the tether.
The 12-mile length of the tether.
And they're 200 miles up.
So do the math.
How big and how wide in the sky would that be?
How big of a... No, you're talking about something 300 miles away from the Earth, James.
That's right.
It's a long ways away.
And something 2 or 3 miles wide.
No, I don't think you would see it.
Well, I'll do the math for you then.
It's about half a degree.
And that's the size of the full moon.
So I think that some of the size of the full moon would be visible.
Too far away, number one, that doesn't work.
Number two, you're saying people in North America couldn't see it.
I'm not certain about your math.
This would be a very lengthy conversation.
But again, if they're only visible in the ultraviolet, you would not see them.
You gave me three reasons.
I'm going through them.
One, two, three.
Okay.
Number one reason, doesn't work.
Because they are, in fact, plenty big enough.
They'd be the size of a full moon in the sky.
Although, James, it does work if you consider that they're seen in the ultraviolet.
Well, that was his third.
Right.
We're working through the list from the beginning.
Alright, but... alright.
Second reason, you said.
No one could see it over West Africa because it's too far from North America.
Well, so what?
How about people in West Africa?
So, number two.
That's unreasonable.
As far as being visible in the ultraviolet, uh, that's magic.
It's not magic.
Lou Frank is being visible in the ultraviolet.
Well, and, uh, what do other people say?
What's that?
Is Lou Frank's observations accepted?
Or are they questioning?
Well, is anybody's new ideas accepted?
Everybody argues.
I mean, I've been around... Okay, Galileo, they laughed at Galileo, they laughed at Lou Frank, and they're laughing at you.
Right?
You think they're laughing at Lou Frank?
Well, people don't believe Lou Frank because they can't find... They didn't believe Tesla.
They didn't believe a lot of great scientists when they first came up with new discoveries.
That doesn't mean anything to me.
You think they're laughing at a National Space Act award-winning astrophysicist because even Joe Knuth admits to me that they are seeing these things in the ultraviolet.
He says that most scientists agree that Frank is observing something in capital letters, but they just don't know what it is yet.
Now, I don't think that's laughing at him.
I think that's acknowledging that he's seeing something.
They just disagree about what he's actually seeing.
It's worth taking a look because if we only see what we expect, there's no use in going to look.
So I agree that Frank and others should be looking for strange things.
And so we have no argument there.
People should go look up this stuff and see how real scientific debate goes, where actual instrumentation is measured, where people look at observations, try and explain them.
And, like you said, also look for other things like support.
What would happen if these objects really were there?
Wouldn't they be hitting artificial satellites?
Not if they're intelligently directed.
And not if they're not there.
Well, theoretically, something that you can't see isn't there.
But if it's there in the ultraviolet, it's there.
You just can't see it.
Well, they're not observing the ice in the ultraviolet.
They're observing a water cloud.
That's the problem.
Well, he deducts water based on atomic scattering of oxygen.
He doesn't know for certain.
He's hypothetically saying there are water and water clouds.
I have all of his data right down to the Kilo Rayleigh, the measurements on the light.
Everything.
I've read all of it.
And he doesn't... He's not 100% arrogant in saying these are definitely water.
He just believes they probably are.
Why don't you think that ice can survive on a space shuttle or in space?
In the dark side of space, yes.
But on the sunny side, the radiations would be too intense.
It would burn up the ice crystals.
And Newt agreed with me on that.
And do what to the ice?
It would melt in a... It should melt in a matter... In the sun?
In the presence of the sun?
The ultraviolet light is a great measurement hotter than the light that we get down here on the earth.
And we know how hot it can be in Death Valley in August.
The ultraviolet light temperature is extremely high.
It would melt the ice extremely fast.
And water balls traveling from distant portions...
As a comet burns as it approaches our sun, same theory, James.
It burns up.
And very slowly and passes the sun lots of times.
We had an ice problem on the space shuttle.
Occasionally the ice would build up around some of the vents and one of the wastewater dumps they had this 3 or 4 foot long icicle built up there and they couldn't get it to melt.
They were turning to the sun and it just wouldn't melt.
So I don't I don't understand this idea about ice vaporizing in the intense sunlight.
Well, I got Joe Knuth to agree with me on that, and that's the head of Atomic Chemistry.
I'm not going to argue with you with things that happen on ice, on the shuttle itself, that may have been shaded from the sun.
We didn't think of that.
That's right.
I'm not going to go into that conversation.
I'm only going to go into the hypothesis And again, I've had many scientists, teachers that I've run the same question by about ice surviving in space.
I can't say that I... Gentlemen, gentlemen, hold it, hold it.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
Hold on, both of you.
Stand by.
We have lost our satellite, and this is only the second time that's ever happened in years and years and years.
And it always occurs during an absolutely brilliant conversation.
Now, I'm not saying that somebody took our satellite away, but, uh... It does occur at critical times.
Really weird stuff, folks.
I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
Baby, you're no good I broke a heart, gentle and true
Well, I broke the heart of a someone like you About you
I tried to wait for you, but you have closed your mind Baby, what ever happened to our love?
It used to be so nice.
It used to be so good.
Oh, when you gave me God, He came to hear me and call it.
Oh, you gave me nothing and then saved me and call it.
It used to say so nice, it used to say so good Oh when you see me darling, can you hear me echoing?
The love you gave me, nothing else to say, echoing When you're gone, I can hardly even try to go on
When you're gone, so I cry, I cannot carry on Wanna take a ride?
Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
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Well, I'm telling you, something really strange is going on.
Really strange.
Only two times in all the years that I've broadcast this program have we apparently lost satellites.
The bit sync rate, all the information on the uplink in the other room from me indicates to me that there's no satellite there.
The people at the satellite uplink location say of the KU band signals that ours is the only one that dropped.
We're still coming to you on what's called ISDN, which is a landline connection.
As... I don't know.
It's kind of like we're either being interfered with, or somebody actually is tampering with the transponder, or the transponder we're on is having trouble.
It's very hard to determine what's going on right now, but in the middle of a pretty critical conversation, it went down like a lead balloon.
That's all I can tell you.
We're looking into it.
All right, once again, back to my two guests, and they're both doing very well, I think.
David Sirita, who has described and shows us photographs of apparent craft that have been photographed by NASA, and somebody who worked for NASA, was a NASA mission control veteran, a buff on space age mythology, and a debunker.
And we're getting some pretty interesting dictionary definitions of debunker, for example.
Arrogance, a feeling, or an impression of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or presumptuous claims.
Nope, nope, nope, not me, not me.
Not you, huh?
Alright, gentlemen, you're both back on the air.
We're watching TV here in the corner of my room from the space station, just doing another spacewalk up there.
And that's just extraordinary, getting that station together, looking at the structure being built.
I'm very envious of those guys up there.
I've always wanted to be up there myself.
Yeah.
Does it seem to you, James, unlikely that there would be extraterrestrial life visiting Earth?
Does that seem like an unlikely scenario?
I think it's a reasonable assumption that life should be out there and some would be curious.
And would travel or send signals.
I think there's nothing implausible about that at all.
And what I find most frustrating, and that's why I stay interested in the subject, is that it might be tough to recognize the signal, and if we bury the signal with too much noise, we'd never be able to tell.
Yeah, but is it not also possible that the camera viticons that you spoke of a little while ago, and I think properly described the way they might react to a bright object, Uh, particularly in a low-light situation or maybe at a Terminator situation.
I understand all that, but it would also be so easy to explain away the real thing with exactly the same scenario.
No, it wouldn't, because you'd see something that would be big.
You'd see something that would be more than, either more than just a dot or a circle.
It's the circular stuff.
And the reason I suspect that that's a camera artifact is it's two-fold.
First, we've seen it in other scenes, including from that flight, in which the camera focus varies, and it turns out that we're looking at a star field, and it goes out of focus and shows a bunch of splendid circles, but that has funny little notches in them.
And the second reason I think those notches are a camera artifact and not real physical objects is that as the objects move across the screen, when the screen is full of these dots, and the tether is in view, The notch moves around the circle.
It takes different positions as the object moves.
But it takes the same clock position for the same screen position.
And as each object moves from one corner to another, and followed by another one, the notches go through the same pattern.
And David can try that too.
I've actually tried that and I didn't find that to be true.
But I think you just made a great point there, James.
I wanted to highlight it.
that as far as detecting an extraterrestrial craft, going back to what Earl VanLandingham, who I don't know if
you know Earl, do you know him?
I've heard the name but...
He's now the head of the Office of Space Access and Technology
and he was involved with the Fusion Project way back when I was working on it
with Dr. Bogdan Maglic from MIT.
Now, he said to me, if a UFO was coming from another star system, it would be radiating with such tremendous energy.
Now, when we consider the electromagnetic spectrum, and that SETI is looking way down in the radio spectrum, which is the low end of the electromagnetic spectrum, and NASA is building all these new cameras, including Orpheus POS-2, which you may have heard of, You flew out five years ago and it's been taken apart.
ultraviolet high energy phenomenon appear in the in the higher spectrum of the
electromagnetic spectrum. Now our cameras are able to see that.
It flew out five years ago and it's been taken apart.
Or it is? Yeah. Yeah, 97 is when... Yeah, they're building more and more of these far
ultraviolet Explorer cameras.
Now, Max Planck, the godfather of quantum physics, is the one who said that the higher you went in the electromagnetic spectrum, the more energy was present.
Now, when you consider the energy it takes to travel great distances in space, It would seem to me the most likely place to be looking for extraterrestrial contact, and based on what Earl Van Manningham said, would be in the upper spectrum of light, rather way down in radio where SETI is looking.
I think that there's no coincidence In understanding quantum physics, that NASA is building cameras that can see into these upper spectrum, and that is where we should hopefully detect a signal of extremely high energy.
Well, you're looking at two separate phenomena here.
We're talking about signals from possibly other star systems that have crossed interstellar distances.
In that case, your radio is where they've been looking, and mostly because that's where they could search.
But you know, James, looking for traces of vehicles within the solar system.
And the second question is, what kind of energies would they be radiating?
And that's James.
There is news now that SETI is setting their sights away from the radio spectrum,
and they're beginning to look in other spectrums, light and above.
I think that's awesome news.
Are you aware of that, Jim?
Yeah, they're looking for laser pulses as well.
So if they're looking in other spectrums, then doesn't it make sense that if we're looking for something nearby, it may well also be in another spectrum, one we don't see so readily?
No, it doesn't, Art.
Why not?
We're talking about two different things.
We're talking about artificial signals being sent, or possibly leakage from other civilizations, which Which is a reasonable thing to look for, versus the byproducts of propulsion vehicles, propulsion that's approaching our solar system, or working within the solar system.
And it's just two different sets of physics.
But why would we assume that a propulsion system, an extraterrestrial propulsion system, or a craft for that matter, ...would be readily visible in the spectrum that the eye can perceive.
Why would we assume that?
Wouldn't that be as dangerous an assumption as SETI assuming they're going to get a radio signal?
Well, don't UFOs glow at night?
I mean, they turn their running lights on so people can see them?
Well, that's...
I mean, sometimes they're seen in the visible light spectrum.
Yes, in a lot of the craft, the whole craft seems to be glowing with light, which to me suggests that the entire mass of the craft is vibrating at a very high frequency.
There's a scientist named Canada... I'm sorry, I just don't understand what you're talking about.
Well, he actually gets into quantum physics.
I don't know if you know Art... I think it's in the quantum jargon.
Excuse me, Art, do you know who John Hutchison is?
No, I don't.
John Hutchinson is a zero-point energy physicist who has given demonstrations to major defense contractors in the United States.
I personally have someone at NASA looking at his research right now.
I can't name them on the air.
But he is bombarding mass.
with high frequency energy and causing mass to levitate.
He's actually levitated a 90, 70 pound cannonball by bombarding the mass of the cannonball with high frequency energy radiating from Tesla coils and he's transforming the mass into a high frequency state.
He told me just a couple of days ago that he has on camera mass reaching such high frequency states that it disappears from the view of the camera, which means the mass is
actually going into another spectrum.
And when you see, when I saw a UFO in Berkeley in 1968, it disappeared into the invisible spectrum.
Now that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. In theory, it's doing the same thing.
Yeah, I understand.
James, you think that's all bunk, right?
I think it's bunk.
I think it's all bunk.
Well, John Hutchinson's work has had... Lockheed Martin has come and studied his work, and they have witnessed his phenomena.
It's something you probably don't know much about, so it's not worth arguing with you about.
Well, I'll read about it when he gets his Nobel Prize.
Well, yeah, well then you'll be the last to know.
James, why is it not reasonable to believe that the object photographed near the tether that we've got on the website, the one that we can look at and all talk about, and the one seen in England, did you get an opportunity to see that, James?
Sure did, sure did.
I can get those pictures of my own video camera, just put the focus back down to, you know, out of range.
The reason it can look the same is it could be...
is if it's either camera artifacts, cameras have similar malfunctions
and are similar operating ranges.
In space and on Earth.
Sure.
Well, what'd you do that for?
Would you go and take your camera and take a picture of whatever you want and send it and do an identical I mean, it's kind of hard to ask you to do that because you could easily run it through Photoshop and do some rendering.
I believe... Okay, I'll pass it.
You know, I really don't know what you're saying.
You're saying something there that I don't even know if you can validate.
You're saying this woman in England did not see what she and other witnesses saw with her naked eye, which they described as an enormous object hovering above the trees with a bite out of the side and a hole in the middle and it was pulsing.
Now, what British UFO group has checked that out?
What's that?
What British UFO group has researched that?
It's been on the BBC website and BBC News and Channel 5... Oh, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
You know better than that.
You know, you read BBC reports.
You read the report of that Russian airfield that got shut down by UFOs back in January.
The kind of stuff we put out over the news media... You're a debunker.
You know, you work for... You're an associate of NASA.
I work for who?
And considering the Brookings Report, you're going to debunk all this stuff.
So, I don't really think...
You think I have an honest opinion about it?
Well, you're trying to debunk a lot of UFO stuff and you're a heavyweight on that side.
Well, there's a lot of targets out there.
There's a lot of bunk out there that needs debunking.
Well, you're the man!
But is that what you're actively seeking to do, James, under any circumstances, or do you actually have an open mind?
If you look at the stuff I've written and that international essay contest I won back in 1979 on the science of ufology, you can see where I say quite clearly that If there's a signal out there to be detected, people need to be a lot more stringent about their judgment of evidence, so that they can create a persuasive case.
And that, right now, the UFO field is drowning in bunk, and couldn't tell a real, genuine UFO if it showed up and zapped them.
Yes, but if you're debunking everything, don't you run the same risk?
I don't debunk everything.
I debunk things that I know about, and make a research, like space flight, which David doesn't appear to know about.
But my point is that if you're actively debunking everything, and you do seem to be, or at least listening to you, don't you run the same risk of not recognizing one if it hits you in the nose?
Well, depends how hard it hits.
James Olberg, what do you think of the astronauts who have come forward and have made statements about saying, you know, not very clearly, but about things they think they've seen out there?
Well, for example?
Well, for example, Edgar Mitchell being a proponent of UFOs.
Edgar Mitchell said he didn't see anything out there.
No, and what do you think?
Edgar Mitchell said he did not see anything unusual on his space flights.
What do you think of John Glenn's fireflies and also John Glenn appearing on great... John Glenn's fireflies.
Great scene.
Do you think that that was urine?
No, who said it was urine?
No, I'm not saying it was, I'm saying what do you think it was?
But why'd you bring urine up as a mockery?
Well, because I think in one of your emails to me, I think you mentioned a urine dump.
I do think that's also... David, you just... David, you can't get anything straight.
I got emails from you, I got about probably 20 or 30 emails from you, somewhere around there, maybe 20.
That's right, so you have an excuse to make things up and misunderstand things.
Well, I'll look for the email where you said...
Everybody knows what the fireflies were on Glenn's flight.
What were they?
It's water coming off his flash evaporator.
They could say that a carpenter discovered that on his next flight because he could pound on the wall next to the flash
evaporator, and he could create blizzards by just pounding on the wall.
The spacecraft was cooled by having a small amount of water sprayed against the cooling loops outside,
and as they flash into ice, they absorb the heat from these loops and dissipate the heat from the electronics in the
capsule.
It's a very simple, very standard piece of equipment.
There's even one on the shuttle, the flash evaporator, and on the Russian spacecraft, too.
That all sounds fancy and nice.
Now, what do you think of Glenn's statement on Frasier?
Do you think it was merely comical?
And unquantified?
I think Glenn was making fun of the script that he was given to read.
Was making fun of people who thought that what he was saying might be true.
Why would a senator appear on a Hollywood TV sitcom?
I don't arrange his social schedules.
And now you're talking different.
But the words he used, obviously he was reading a script.
And the stuff he described about the space flight was stuff that someone as scripted didn't know about space flight.
Well, obviously it was a script.
I agree with you.
Everything on television is very scripted, but he certainly would not have read words that he didn't want to read, would he?
He read the words because apparently he enjoyed being on the show, according to his interview.
Well, and I think his comments were interpreted by most people in the country who saw it as making fun of people who believe that kind of stuff.
Gee, I didn't get that.
I mean, making fun of people?
I didn't get that at all.
At best, you could say, well, it was just comedy, but I don't see the ridicule angle to it.
Well, it was a fun show.
But a senator, a senator appearing on a TV show, that seems a little odd to me.
I mean, there's other people who can go and make fun of me.
Well, you know, your judgment of what's odd and what's not is something I don't have any confidence in, so... Well, I don't have a lot of confidence in you.
Now, you're saying, you said there's a number of people, astronauts, said they saw strange things out there.
You offered Ed Mitchell as an example.
It turns out Ed Mitchell never claimed to have seen strange things.
No, I've talked to Ed Mitchell about the tether.
I've had long conversations with him, and...
You know, he is someone who initially took the side that you're taking, and he had, for me, he wasn't a very interesting person.
And Mitchell's already a strikeout, because you said there are astronauts who report seeing strange things in space.
Yeah, I mean... Can I ask you for some examples?
Well, there certainly are examples of astronauts who have said, Things that are obviously intended to have people thinking about what it might... Neil Armstrong, for example, at the White House.
I'm sure you're familiar with what he said, James.
And, you know, they're intended to get people thinking that there might be...
That they should be reading between the lines.
Well, I'm not that telepathic, Art.
Maybe you're a little better at that, but I'm asking David.
David's stated that astronauts have said they've seen strange things in space.
I've asked him for some examples.
Well, strange things in space doesn't necessarily mean they've come out and said they've seen an alien craft and said hello.
Is this called a backpedal, David?
No, no, no, no, listen.
Now, I, I have written a book that shows both sides fairly, shows arguments for and against this.
You haven't, you haven't, you didn't describe my feelings fairly when you were on the first hour.
Yes, they are.
I quoted you verbatim.
Now, everybody gets their say in here.
Are you a urine dump on the Merck, on the Glenfly?
Whatever you emailed me, James, I just pasted.
I don't edit it.
It's fair.
So, whatever you said, now, it's a fair, it's a fair investigation.
Well, James, James, you wrote it.
What did you say?
I have to look back in my files and look.
I cut and pasted your statements for you and Joe Knuth and Lou Frank and everybody got to have their say and the ufologists got to have their say but really we are all human beings your observations are no more valid Than anybody else who has the ability to make observations for themselves.
Gentlemen, listen.
I think we've covered this pretty well.
This was really interesting, and I want to thank you both, David and Rita.
Thank you.
James, thank you for being here.
Watch out for your satellite.
Thank you, Art.
Hey, no kidding.
Good night, all.
Good night.
All right.
We'll come back and do one hour of open lines.
And boy, he's right about that.
Watch out for our satellite.
I'm gonna see if I can figure out what's going on.
Either we've had a never-before-had equipment failure, or we have lost a satellite.
Fortunately, Thinking this might happen someday, we installed another piece of backup equipment that has us on the air right now.
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