Richard C. Hoagland, NASA advisor and Angstrom Science Award recipient, argues John Glenn’s Frasier remarks—"the bosses told us to shut up"—were no joke but a deliberate 2001 disclosure hinting at suppressed Mars findings, like Sir Arthur C. Clarke’s London Times op-ed (September 16, 2000) about "glass worms" and his later claim (March 25, 2001) of "large forms of life" from JPL images. Hoagland points to a Mars Global Surveyor "glass tunnel" (600 ft wide, 4,500–5,000 ft long) near Sidonia, defying natural erosion, and a July 18, 2000, teardrop-shaped object in an ancient crater, citing Viking soil data and Ron Nix’s analysis to reject organic or ice explanations. Tying this to the 1959 Brookings Report’s warnings about societal destabilization from ET contact, Hoagland suggests Mars may hold evidence of a lost civilization—including tunnels—and urges officials to revisit exploration after Matt Drudge’s report on President Bush’s renewed interest. [Automatically generated summary]
easy to see so go take a look because we're going to be discussing it and the other photographs that are there as well now Richard C. Hoagland has been an advisor to NASA and to Walter Cronkite during those years he's an Angstrom Science Award winner the medal science medal and he's been a friend for you know I was starting to consider that like fine wine
Richard, how long has it been that we've known each other?
There is a trend curve where people who, you know, get out of the system, you know, the Senate, the military, the Marines, the Navy, whatever, retire, have an independent means.
They become more independent and they look back and they kind of think about their life and the long view of history.
And, you know, that's all a very normal thing.
And I think it has nothing to do with what's going on tonight.
Nothing.
And the reason I say that is because if it were one day to point, if suddenly Fraser popped up and John Glenn was on it and he did this old thing in the studio like he will describe in a few minutes, it would be one thing.
But this follows, within a week, a set of stunning statements by my old friend, Sir Arthur Clark.
a fine wine I know this is going to be the model of the evening but I I'm afraid I think it's a little more interesting than that.
I think that it's the fact that it's the year of 2001 that Arthur and Kubrick tried to tell us 33 years ago that this was the year.
I mean, you've had conversations with Steve Bassett.
I've had conversations.
We've talked about disclosure, when it would happen, how it would happen.
What you don't know, and this is going to be a little out of left field, but I'm going to share it with you because I shared it with a couple other people after Clark's statement of a week ago, Sunday.
And we'll get to Clark's statement, which is extremely powerful, very powerful.
I had a dream.
You've never heard me say anything like this on the air before, right?
I don't, you know, pretend to be able to see the future.
I do things the hard way, although Grease, left-brain stuff, science, trying to be rational, all that.
But I had a dream, and it was very vivid.
And then the dream, you know, I went to bed that night thinking about what Clark had said, because it is so stunning, given how well I know him and how conservative, I mean, for a visionary, Arthur Clark is one of the most conservative, stick-in-the-mud people about this kind of stuff you can imagine.
So for him to say what he has finally now said with Aldrin sitting there in Sri Lanka, we could go Sunday, was pretty mind-blowing to me, and obviously it definitely rang your bells too.
So I went to bed that night, and I had this bizarre dream, which was that I was someplace, either at headquarters or at JPL.
And two very senior NASA people, one of whom I knew and one whom I didn't, came out and essentially affirmed what Arthur had said.
Well, let me go read it, and then we'll go back and we'll look at the actual chronology of how this all happened, because this follows a pattern.
There has been a series of events that our friend Arthur Clark has been doing since September of last year, beginning with a piece in the London Times, an op-ed piece.
But what he did a week ago Sunday, which was on the 25th, he said, and I'm going to quote accurately now, he says, I'm fairly convinced that we have discovered life on Mars.
I am fairly convinced we've discovered life on Mars.
This was quoted by Space.com by a gentleman named Andrew Chaikin, who was the editor of their hard copy Space.com Illustrated magazine that people may have seen on the newsstands.
He went on in this meeting with Buzz Aldrin because Aldrin had apparently flown halfway around the world for some festivities there in Sri Lanka where Arthur, of course, lives.
Arthur went on.
There are some incredible photographs from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, which to me are pretty convincing proof of the existence of large forms of life on Mars.
Well, in 1945, in a magazine called Wireless World, the year you and I were born, Art.
Yes.
Arthur wrote this prophetic piece, nonfiction, projecting that someday huge, super-tall communications towers would be built, towers in quotes, that they would be satellites orbiting 22,300 miles above the Earth.
That at that altitude, they would orbit the Earth in the same period of time, 24 hours, that the Earth would rotate underneath them.
This is where you have to go back in history, Tad, because if you go to his previous statements, let's go to the one in September of 2000.
On September 16th, in the London Times, which is not your average rag, Arthur was doing a piece called How I Helped Save Star Trek.
It turned out to forecast the future.
And he goes on about how, you know, science fiction and things have pointed to a probable future, and there's a lot of seeming fantasy which has become fact.
And science fiction is probably best known for the general prediction of space travel, even if most of the details were wrong.
And then he says, the solar system has failed to live up to expectations.
Although the moon was written off a long time ago, there were still hopes for Mars until our space probe showed that it was a frozen desert with an atmosphere far too thin to breathe, even if it contained oxygen, which it doesn't.
No canals, no princesses, probably no life of any kind.
Then he said, at the beginning of his escalation, well, I don't believe it.
The still busy Mars surveyor has sent back some of the most extraordinary images ever received from space.
One shows what any unbiased observer would say are clumps of bushes in a frozen landscape.
Even more spectacular are gigantic glass worms, hundreds of feet long.
They are probably frozen lava tubes, but I can't help hoping.
And he ended his piece, which was pretty provocative to you and me, Art, with: stay tuned.
All right, I stick with my original premise, and I bolster my original premise by actually going to some things that you have said in the past about Dr. Carl Sagan before he passed, Richard.
As Dr. Sagan was coming to the end of his life, and he fully well knew he was coming to the end of his life, he began to say some things that were very, very different than his professional life.
One of which was in May of last year, prompted by an event we had in Phoenix, Arizona, and a call upon John McCain to get behind open disclosure vis-a-vis NASA.
Suddenly, out of nowhere, we suddenly get all these images, and the most extraordinary thing is they came without any explanation or any captions at all.
So we went on the show, you know, with Mike holding court, and we asked for people to help.
Well, they started sending in various, you know, images.
Take a look at this, take a look at that.
I went through hundreds myself for a couple, three weeks until I had to basically move Enterprise.
And one of the images I found was this damn thing that looks like a glass tunnel, the thing that Arthur calls the glass worm.
And we published it on June 7th of last year on Enterprise.
The next data point is that Arthur, in his op-ed piece, makes mention of this glass worm.
Then comes December.
And in December, he was doing an event at the Pasadena City College for the Planetary Society.
And Lou Friedman, who runs the place at the end, asked Sir Arthur by satellite from Sri Lanka to make a few comments.
Well, here's how Arthur surprised Friedman.
Quote, I'm still waiting for an explanation of that extraordinary glass worm on Mars.
How big is it?
It's one of the most incredible images that have ever come from space, and there has been no official comments on it whatsoever.
So this is getting more interesting because he's ratcheting up the ante.
So finally, as of last Sunday, when he's sitting there with Aldrin, he basically comes right out and says there's life on Mars, and he says there are incredible photographs.
Now, I thought originally, well, he's referring to the microbial life that they claim to have discovered in the meteorite and the crystalline formations, all the rest of it that would be common to life here on Earth.
You know, bookended between Arthur's statement and John Glenn's statement.
And if we're right, all right, if this isn't just, you know, people getting up there looking back and thinking about Frank Sinatra, There will be more art.
A model is only as good as its prediction.
So let me make a prediction tonight.
I keep coming back to that weird dream I had, which really, you know, stuck in my mind.
If this is part of the official disclosure, I mean, what better way for NASA to get out from under this 40 years of deception than to put out a whole bunch of photographs, tens of thousands, and have someone like Arthur find things in the public literature?
Even though, of course, we found this thing first, and, you know, we're not going to argue about that.
But what you have then is a politically plausible individual who's ostensibly not part of the organization, basically calling attention to extraordinary things to which the agency can then, at some point in the next week or two weeks or months or six months, respond by looking and say, you know, Arthur called our attention to all these amazing things.
Damn it if there's not some bizarre stuff down there.
We've got to go to Mars.
And a lot of people are in this society will buy it.
The first step is to have an accounting for honesty.
And I think this little ploy, having people like Arthur and now John Glenn come out and say these things, I mean, Glenn's is frankly much more damning than Arthur because he basically said the bosses told us to shut up.
But let me get into the context of the show in a minute because I don't think you can dismiss it because it was done in a way within the show parameters that was not comedy.
Some people hearing you might think it's just comedy, and there is a very good way to analyze why it wasn't.
Normally on a comedy show, might as well get to this right now, if things are done for comedy, they're done so the studio audience can react, so that the characters interact among each other.
The way this was set up, you had Glenn in the studio with an open mic going to a tape recorder.
You had behind the glass in the control room, you had Roz and Fraser arguing about some inane, stupid nonsense that was funny.
So Glenn is doing his whole soliloquy, dumping his heart out on this tape that he doesn't know is running, by the way, only to the camera and to the nation.
And the White House brought in a whole bunch of producers, brought them to the White House and sat them down and said, look, can you write and produce a series of programs in your various sitcoms and drama shows and all that with the common theme that drugs are a no-no?
And they acquiesced.
They actually did this.
So there is precedent for commercial mainstream television to listen to a political heads up on a certain subject and follow a party line.
The idea that the writers brought in John Glenn and created a comedy scenario around his gem, which was his telling the truth to the American people tonight, is no more fictitious than the Nixon era bringing in the same folks to do the anti-drug.
Well, but he's going to make contact with the producers to find out more, and he's going to represent who he is, you know, the only lobbyist we've got there in Washington.
Okay, this is one of the questions that Arthur asked because, you know, Malin doesn't do a very good job of tabulating his data.
But we put on the web, and if you go to, you know, the program area of Art site tonight and go over to the glass image line and click on that, you'll see a whole series of images that I uploaded to Keith earlier this evening while Fraser was in the background.
That's why I was watching Fraser.
I wanted something in the background while I was doing this grunt work.
Which is about three miles wide and maybe 12 miles long.
So just take a ruler and measure it and you can get the width.
The tunnel, the feature we're focusing in on in the close-up on the right, is about 600 feet wide.
And it's around 4,500 to 5,000 feet long.
All right, at an image scale of 3 meters per pixel.
So we're looking at a very large structure.
Now, what made it stand out in my mind, as soon as I saw it, and I was going through this 60,000 images that Melan had dumped, and I didn't pick this image at random.
I was actually beginning to do a survey around Sidonia.
Because in the model that Sidonia is a city, and that it's on a planet that's pretty desolate and dry and not habitable, and that anybody living or going around would have to do so in a protected environment.
You know, the city is not like New York.
It's basically the arcology concept I've talked about for years.
Huge contained structures where all the atmosphere and people live inside.
And it's out under what used to be the ancient northern ocean of Mars.
Remember, Sidonia sits on a promontory of land that back when Mars had oceans and atmosphere and was warm and wet, as the geologists term it, it would have been like San Francisco, would have been sitting on a peninsula surrounded by water on two, if not three sides.
And so I started looking under this ocean, and the reason I did that is because the sediments under oceans are very soft.
And when they dry out, they blow away.
And my theory was that if there was interesting stuff that had been built under the ocean, if the ocean levels had risen and fallen, like they have in the Aegean Sea, for instance, here on Earth, that there might be better preserved archaeology ruins out under those sediments than on dry land, which has been exposed for a very long time.
So I'm looking at these images, and they're little tiny strips.
I mean, 12 miles by 2 miles is a very small area.
So I'm looking at this and popping them up and enlarging them, and suddenly my eye falls on this crack at the bottom of one of these images out to the northwest of Sidonia.
And I enlarged it, and there was this whomping, big, it looked like the Lincoln Tunnel.
It looked like a glass sheathed tube sinuously coming down the picture in a crevasse, in a declevity in the surface where the sediments had blown away.
And what made it really stunning was two features.
One was the glass.
You can clearly see there's a translucent substance in a tube-like geometry.
Now, on the old images, there was this black line, straight as an arrow, extending for a couple of fort widths out toward the face to the east.
On the new image that Malin released, in the bottom of that line, which was dark because of the sun angles on the old Viking data, the sun was high enough you could see to the bottom of that trench.
And the same kind of regular ribbing pattern that we see on this object is in the bottom of that trench.
With regard to the whole snake or tunnel and ribbing itself, I have to ask an obvious question.
Scientists say there was once much water on Mars, much water in this place, in fact, on Mars.
Why is a person not to imagine that, yes, it's highly unusual, yes, it doesn't look natural, but with erosion, as water was leaving Mars, some weird stuff happened, and somehow, somehow, this was made?
Well, you have to come up with a mechanism for making it.
And Ron Nix, who is, as you know, is one of our geologists, he's been on the show, has done a whole paper on this thing, which we're going to post probably tomorrow.
And let me read you what he says.
All right, here's a geologist working for a major geotectonic firm there in Las Vegas now.
He says, there is already a groundswell of evidence for engineered structures on the surface of Mars.
The Sidonia region alone has produced some convincing evidence of past construction, not to mention the many other images that show what would be bewildering geology, but sound engineering.
That seems to me to be the simplest, most rational explanation for the tunnel.
We're looking at the exhumed remains of the Lincoln Tunnel.
The only thing is, it just happens to be on another planet.
In other words, the reason I think we're seeing it, and the reason I think we're seeing the glass in well-preserved condition is because this thing used to be buried under these northern ocean sediments.
And as the erosion keeps going on Mars, and there's no construction now, there's no process on Mars which is building things, all right?
Everything going on on Mars now is destroying things.
Erosion, entropy is taking over.
There's no volcanic activity, there's no rain, there's no sedimentation, there's no plate tectonics, there's no building new mountains.
It's all being ground down.
So the reason this thing is well preserved and the glass still looks like glass is because up until recently, and that's maybe a few thousand years, it was buried.
Ah, the serrations are the regular ribbing structure to hold it in place, to hold it up.
They're structural supports.
Now, if this thing is 600 feet wide, take a ruler and just measure on your image there how big the supports have to be.
And if you're building a big, massive engineering thing that's going to transport people, you know, goods, God knows what, around the planet, underneath the planet, then you'd have to build it big and massive so that it would last a long time.
And particularly if it was at the bottom of an ocean, depending upon how deep the ocean, it would have to be big and massive to support itself against the weight of the overlying water.
And it appears to be a portion exhumed by a process of erosion of the softer sediments.
Now, in 10 million years, or however long it takes for New York to disappear, if aliens came to Earth and somehow the Earth had lost its atmosphere and its oceans and it was like Mars, and in the bottom of the Hudson River, as you know, there are two major man-made structures that go across the river.
of the greatest strength he talked and talked and i heard him say that she had the longest blackest hair the prettiest green eyes anywhere and reason of his latest flame Though I smile the tears inside of
What you're hearing this morning and seeing if you're on the website will take your breath away.
Those things those men said, senators, Sir Arthur C. Clarke, even going back to Carl Sagan, what those men said.
And oh my, these photographs, they'll definitely take your breath away.
It's apparently a glass tunnel.
There's an awful lot of evidence for it, and Sir Arthur C. Clarke said, evidence for large life on Mars.
Large life on Mars.
What do you think he meant by that?
The End I want to remind my audience that this Friday I thought we were going to do open lines and have a special segment.
And we will not, because I've been summoned to California to a Radio and Records talk radio seminar where I am told I will meet with Matt Drudge.
And Matt and I apparently are going to have an interchange in front of this group of radio executives.
Should be interesting.
Anyway, so we'll reschedule the open lines.
Not to worry, next week we'll have plenty of open lines.
But somebody just sent me a fast blast that I think relates.
Drudge, Matt has a story, apparently, on his website, according to this person, that says that President Bush has just called for a more Mars exploration.
And obviously, all of us who have been laboring in these vineyards for all these years, based on what we know is there and what we think is going to happen, we're looking for any little indication that this administration is going to take a more aggressive stance compared to the last eight years.
And the thing that struck me and has struck other observers is in his projected budget, the president has set aside something like a trillion dollars for contingencies.
Now, what would you think a manned mission to Mars would fall under?
Yes, you notice the Seattle, the OLFEMA program, which saved a lot of people's lives, are slashing a measly $25 million, but they want us to reserve a trillion for contingencies.
And he's been very vague about what he means by that.
If you were going to, as again, this time-release aspirin drip-drip model that I keep coming back to, if there is a game plan here, a la Brookings, let's go to good old Brookings, okay?
Well, when the president's father, George Bush Sr., proposed this in 1989, and I don't know whether you're aware, but the CNN tracked me down in the middle of Yosemite that night to come on and do, what's that show in the evening, Point Counterpoint?
They wanted me to do Crossfire to represent the reasons for going to Mars.
They didn't call NASA.
They didn't call somebody from the White House.
They called Dick Hoagland.
And Hoagland at that moment happened to be in the middle of Yosemite, about as far away from a television studio as you can possibly get, so I couldn't do the show.
But the president wanted to initiate a moon Mars program and to, within, you know, 10, 15 years, get to Mars.
And there is a whole brand new concept called MHD, which has been publicized over the last year or so, put out by one of the former astronauts, Chang Davis, I believe, where you basically run electric current through a plasma and generate a very high thrust.
And all you need is a very large amount of electricity to do this.
And you can be in Mars within a few months.
And of course, the way to do it is nuclear power.
You put nuclear reactors in orbit.
You hook them to these MHD rocket engines, which are not chemical.
They're plasma.
They're approaching fusion, but they're not fusion.
In fact, the NASA at that time didn't want to go to Mars.
They did everything they could to shoot the president down, and the core of this palace revolt inside NASA to basically get rid of the Mars option, the Mars idea, was headed by a group of people out of all places, the Johnson Space Center.
There's a very interesting thing which has happened in the last few days, which you probably haven't noticed because nobody would.
But the president directed and Golden followed with the removal of the head of the Johnson Space Center, George Abbey, who was one of the people who led the palace coup against George's father, you know, over 10 years ago.
And it looked to me, and it looked to some other observers, as if this was preparing the way for a Mars initiative if and when they decide to publicly decide we're going to go to Mars.
Well, we probably could do it for a few hundred billion in $2001, okay?
But compared to the trillion contingency fund, he wouldn't use it up.
He would use maybe a third.
Let's say it was a third, because we know a lot more now than we did then, and we can do a lot of things cheaper.
And let me remind you that in the heyday of the old Bush administration, when the NASA folks were saying, oh, it's going to be $500 billion, et cetera, to do it, Dan Quayle quietly headed up a study group.
He was head of the Space Council at that time.
He went around NASA to Los Alamos in California and got a guy named Dr. Lowell Wood, a brilliant nuclear physicist, to put together to breadboard another way to get to Mars.
If you really want to do it, and you put everybody on the same page, and it's a national priority, and at the end of the tunnel, that was a pun, at the end of the tunnel, there is life on Mars, says Sir Arthur C. Clarke.
And to get the public support, you would need a careful campaign of delicate leaks leading up to the ultimate NASA announcement, oh my God, Arthur, look at that down there that you found.
Because politically, he's not exactly explicit in what he means.
And he is, as I said in the last couple of segments, he is a wordsmith.
Arthur has written for a living all his life.
He knows how to use the English language, the King's English.
So when he talks about life on Mars, and he talks about the fact that there is no doubt in these pictures, he doesn't see any other interpretation, and they are large forms of life, my first inclination was that he was echoing something that we again found and published on the web back last July, specifically on July 18th.
Because we were going through this huge hall, I mean, this is like, you know, candy store Christmas in July.
Okay, we found this in a very large crater, very deep ancient crater, massive thing, you know, 100 miles across or more, and several miles deep, as part of our survey.
And if you look at the object on the left, at the bottom of the graphic, you see it looks like kind of a teardrop shape with structure.
And then on the right, we have a close-up of the front of it.
There's no geological mechanism that Ron or anybody else has come up with to explain that.
The closest we could come were some kind of organic remains, like bone structures, or if you do thin sections of bow, and that's where the plasma is generated.
This damn thing looked like something that I would never have imagined I would ever see on Mars, certainly not on this scale, two miles long.
It looked biological.
So I'm looking at this, and Mike and I are discussing it, and, you know, Robin looked at it, and, you know, with her medical background, she instantly realized that it looked much more biological.
So if Mars not only had a flourishing biosphere and intelligence producing artifacts, but suppose it had a long, complicated history like Earth, which, of course, we don't know about yet because we haven't landed, and part of that history had a paleontological record like the dinosaurs, except how would it look on Mars?
We put this on the web and we raise the suggestion that maybe we were looking at something biological a very long time in the past, ancient, a fossil or fossils.
The problem with that is there's also parts of these things that look very geometric and technological.
So then, of course, I mean, as long as we're speculating, you know, we decided, okay, let's speculate that if you had an intelligent civilization, that civilization has control of a lot of different processes once it gets very sophisticated and very old, right?
What are we now developing as a brand new skill that has not existed on this planet for a very long time, if ever?
Control of our biology.
And if you marry biology with engineering, you get biological engineering, a la genetic engineering, and you can create, for instance, life forms of any size you want to do many things that you want.
In other words, instead of building steam shovels, suppose you create giant organisms that eat dirt and make tunnels.
Doesn't sound a bit like an episode in Star Trek called The Horta?
Well, I have a channel separately, and I don't want to upstage anything you have in the works, but this is important enough, and I have a long enough relationship that I am in the process, the next few days, going to try to get some clarification of the most important ambiguity in his very strong statement, which is, are you talking current large life or past large life?
But, see, this raises a lot of other implications that I'm sure that most people listening to us tonight and thinking that we have both gone completely off the beam are going to think about because they don't have the background, the database.
And I'll put it very succinctly.
If Arthur C. Clarke, my dear friend of 30 plus years, is actually saying large forms of life on Mars tonight, that raises a profound problem for the environment of Mars that exists there tonight, that NASA has given us over the last 40 years with all these separate missions.
And unless we resolve that ambiguity, it's going to remain in the air.
And if you go to our website, if you go to EnterpriseMission.com, you will scan down, the second item on the main page is an item we call Sir Arthur Raises the Anti.
We have a very full article with lots of references and graphs and pictures and background tracking basically the history of Mars that we think we know, a la NASA, versus the Mars that would have to exist if Arthur's talking about big life forms there tonight.
I mean, the only way you're going to get the American people to pony up the billions of dollars, however many hundreds of billions it would be to go to Mars, the only way you're going to get them to do that is to convince them that we have a real reason to go.
And what would that be?
Well, a living thing would do it.
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On the crest of a wave that's like magic All rolling and rotting and he's feeling slidding with magic And you and the pieces of ice I'm here to press
things, I hold these things And I'm every song of the use of the cards Goodbye Goodbye Goodbye
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It looked like, and I'll tell you what it looked like to me, it looked like a ship that's been sitting at the bottom of the ocean for about 100 years with sea organisms crawling all over it and growing out of, you know, cabin hatches and portholes and things like that.
Well, again, it goes back to what Arthur meant by large forms of life.
Now, in the break, I had a call from Ron Nix.
Everybody is up tonight.
Nobody on the Enterprise staff is asleep.
And he said, remember that Arthur is British.
And the Brits have a little different take on English than we Americans do.
And what he believes Arthur means, and again, we will not know this until we resolve the ambiguity by going to the source, but he believes that he means large forms of life in the context of bigger than a red box.
Remember, the entire discussion of life on Mars in the mainstream, and Arthur is in the mainstream, even though he's a visionary and he wrote 2001 and he's written some astonishing science fiction and is known for that.
He really is a kind of a stick-in-the-mud scientist hewing the NASA line very closely all these years.
So when you look at it from that perspective, what has been the major discussion, apart from on this show, about life on Mars for the last decade or so?
Certainly since 1996 when NASA had the so-called Mars Rock press conference?
And of course, it also could mean the artifacts, the large forms that life builds when it's intelligent and it does technological engineering type things.
The point is that you don't have to automatically go to the biological scenario, and I'm still struck by the fact that even if he's only talking about Martian giraffes, and I'm being slightly facetious, okay, that would be astonishing and impossible by current Martian standards.
Richard, if there was a civilization on Mars at one time, either way.
Well, let's go with former for the purpose of this discussion.
Why is it not reasonable to assume that if they began to get control of biological processes, as in genetic modification and so forth and so on, or even if they particularly did not have control of that, but had control of space travel, that when Mars began to go to hell in a handbasket, that they would go to the next most logical place, and that would be us, Earth.
And, of course, we have this nice atmosphere and water and all the stuff that Mars at one time had.
Now, why is it a giant leap to suggest that we may be Martians?
Where I looked into the camera and said, we are the Martians?
Based on the 27 years I've been at this, God, it seems that long, gosh, that's my conclusion, that the reason there's a face on Mars is because we built it in memorialization of us.
And that we, you know, when I say we are the Martians, our great, great, great, great, great, great, great, multiply that by however many you want, grandfathers and grandmothers had to come here because, as you said, it went to hell in a handbasket.
Yes.
If that's true, then there will be all kinds of interesting connections that we haven't yet found.
And we found a lot of them, and they're going to be in the new book.
Yeah, because Brookings in 1959, which was this official NASA study commissioned of some of the most prestigious scientists and anthropologists and paleontologists and law experts and business people.
I mean, they brought in everybody but the kitchen sink to kind of sit down in a room once a month for a year and tell them how to design a space program.
And there was one section in this report, which we happen to have a copy of, called The Implications of Extraterrestrial Life.
And in that section, and I again was discussing this with Vassett over the weekend, there is a remarkable phrase.
It talks about how it is not possible that NASA will meet extraterrestrial life forms before 20 years.
And I looked at that, again, anew in the last few days after talking about it on your show and putting it on the web and publishing it in monuments over the last decade or so.
And I got to thinking, how did the authors of Brookings, NASA, the chief contractor, how did they know it would not be before 20 years that we would meet extraterrestrial life forms?
The only way I'm arguing that one could know that is if you knew where they were, i.e.
on Mars, and you were projecting the rate at which your technology, i.e.
rocket power and spaceships and all that, would evolve.
And if you go back to the early 60s, late 50s, they were projecting a man landing on Mars in the 1980s.
Well, I would say that 30 years ago, too, but in the document, it strongly recommended additional studies to ferret out the details of how people would react.
And it also discussed programs of public education and conditioning, which of course is back to Hoagland and his conspiracy theory number one, that we have been prepared by friends of mine like Gene Roddenberry, Steven Spielberg, Arthur Clark, Stanley Kubrick, etc., over a generation.
That 20 years represented in the document, Art, a generation.
What was it Max Planck said, the famous physicist?
He said, new ideas in science don't take place because, you know, I'm paraphrasing, old folks basically get new ideas.
It's because the old folks simply die off.
So if they were anticipating 30 plus years ago that it would take a generation or more to change fear and xenophobia and loathing and all kinds of adverse reactions to the discovery that the human race is not alone, in fact, the human race may not even be intrinsic to this planet, but a transplant from someplace else, i.e.
Mars.
We are now at the end of that projected 20 plus years.
And that's where I come back to this idea that there is a timetable of disclosure.
And I come back to the fact that my dear friend, Arthur, and this genius that he hooked up with, Stanley Kubrick, who I've been researching feverishly for the new book, The Follow-On to Monuments, because we're looking at the saga of 2001.
Why did they pick 2001 for when we would make contact, when it would suddenly strike the human race?
Okay, why did I pick glass as the substance that would get milky?
Because the Viking data, The one data point we have from the surface of Mars, actually we have two of them, two spacecraft, the soil chemistry analyses revealed a very high percentage of silicon and oxygen.