Art Bell welcomes Brian Alexander, discussing cloning risks like accidental IVF errors (ICSI) producing near-identical offspring, with success rates as low as 5% and ethical nightmares—including grieving parents seeking revival. Alexander confirms cryogenic cloning could theoretically recreate figures like Hitler or Jordan but warns of incomplete traits, while Bell speculates on secret, high-end cloning. Callers share bizarre warnings: one from Ohio links family violence to "Antichrist" prophecies, another from California describes a "skyworm" near a cemetery, and a German caller hints at Area 51’s fiber optics possibly enabling consciousness transfer. The episode blurs science, conspiracy, and apocalyptic fears, raising unsettling questions about where cloning—and human experimentation—might lead next. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and or good morning wherever you may be across this great land of ours.
And that includes areas commercially from the Tahitian, the Hawaiian Islands, Guam, out across the date line in the west, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands.
A lot of territory south into South America and north all the way to the Pole.
This is Post of Coast AM.
And I'm Marpell.
And never in my life have I seen such a brouha ha with regarding to the Kathleen Keating show that we did at the first of the week.
Oh, brother.
The revelation of the name of the person that Kathleen Keating believes is the Antichrist has really stirred up a fur.
And I'm telling you right now, I'm not going to give that name, nor the organization.
It is, however, on her website.
Her website, however, is...
You can make up your own mind about that.
I've got Kathleen on the line.
And we're going to talk to her for just a moment here at the beginning of the show.
So I've got that whole lot more in open lines, and then a discussion with a very interesting gentleman by the name of Brian Alexander, who writes for Wired magazine on cloning.
In view of right below where you identify the Antichrist, you say there's also another guy in New Mexico who appears to be vying for the same infamous title.
This may add to some confusion, but I think there is a reason we're seeing two world teachers.
It is true there will be many smaller Antichrists, some significant players, especially world leaders, who will qualify as Antichrists.
However, in the end, only one man will be the ultimate Antichrist.
All right, I've got an email that I want to read you that I thought was creepy, so I'm going to read it to you and then I'm going to get your reaction.
A dear Mr. Bell, I've just heard much of your interview with Kathleen Keating on streaming audio and write to take the pressure off that poor goof from the UN, who she has quite incorrectly identified as the Antichrist.
And writing you isn't the only thing I'm doing.
You'll notice that her website is still inoperable.
You see, the fact is, I am the Antichrist.
I'd like to call into one of your programs, but frankly, I'm just too busy.
It's always like this when I'm on this side of the Atlantic.
There is an invisible cocoon blocking rational thought that is stretched around this part of the world, and arguably Texas Christian University in particular, and thank God for that.
Facts just do not penetrate this far into what I like to call my personal territory.
In Europe and other places closer to ground zero, the Mount, Whaling Wall, Jerusalem, whatever you want to call it, scholarship is more, how should I say it, exacting.
Thus, many people over there know a few things.
But I'd like to take the time to bring you up to speed on.
Please feel free to check my facts.
Just because I am the Antichrist doesn't mean that I'm infallible.
After all, I'm stuck in this really clumsy, older body.
And sometimes life is a struggle.
I don't recall things as well as I used to.
So when the Jews were looking for a Messiah, they really didn't believe one would ever arrive.
A phrase current at the time was, when the Messiah comes, by which was not meant that the Messiah would be engaging in a sexual act, but rather he might arrive.
The oddsmakers throughout the whole proposition find the whole proposition rather sketchy.
Your equivalent today is the second coming of Christ Almighty, which means the same thing, and nobody is too mussed up about it.
And this time, the Messiah might very well be a woman.
Last time, this honor went to Isa Maria.
But I digress.
The Messiah was to have four qualities.
The person so honored was to be the perfect embodiment of the qualities, male and female, and also completely spiritual and physical as well.
The glyph by which one speaks of this, then though over here, not so much now, was a cross.
So we have four quadrants defined by this cross.
And each of the quadrants, we write a Hebrew Letter, which stood for one of the four qualities.
It traditionally rendered Yahshua, I believe, or Greek Jesus.
It is a title, not a name.
It is to be earned, not bestowed at birth.
So, in Luke, the instructions for naming this lad read that you will call his name Emmanuel when the kid gets here, because he's got a hell of a shot at this whole Messiah thing.
So, the child who arrives, not by virgin birth, as any Christian in Lebanon, among other places, will tell you, is first destined to be a man, and he is given the name Isa, which is a diminutive of Isaiah, which means God and salvation.
In Greek, of course, the name is Emmanuel.
Now, I regret to say that Kathleen Keating, sounds a bit like cheating, doesn't it, did not demonstrate too much of her research skills in your program.
Indeed, one thought that her best efforts were to consult some Christian in Oklahoma with an address to an institute that's really the back of a privy door.
I know the place because I provide the funding.
And there's more.
Oh, yes, really.
Keating says the Antichrist drives up in a beamer.
I don't like beamers.
Tom was right.
They're like most European cars, designed and built by people who would rather hike.
Here's where Miss Keating, oops, Keating really gets caught out in this business of discrimination.
So a multi-level marketer shows up driving a beamer.
And I'd have thought this was a blatant attempt to impress her.
And he says something like, how'd you like your life to go a lot better?
Or could you use another $100 a day or whatever?
And she's so paranoid about the Antichrist, she doesn't even make eye contact.
I categorically deny for your information, and by the way, that I have been stalking her.
Well, any salesman will tell you, and I've trained a few of them, how about that Billy Graham, that if the mark won't even look at you, you're wasting your time.
So by the time the salesman gets in his car, quiet doors with beamers, and slides off down the block, she thinks he's disappeared.
Oh, my back.
Anyway, I don't know Ms. Keating and will read her even less now that I've heard her.
As I say, I'm pretty busy up here in North Vancouver, Canada.
I help out now and again because the Christians don't see that you have to spout back what they believe based on not much before they do help.
I know a woman whose children were both abused by her husband.
When this was discovered, the woman took the kids and ran.
Members of the church conducted an exorcism of her as she was possessed by, George, I love this country.
And did you hear what kind of abuse I got just for lightening the weather load on New York City last week?
Nothing but vituperation.
I guess they were just desperate to close the airports.
Oh, well, what's an Antichrist to do?
I enjoy your show.
The one with Ms. Keating reminds me that I've got to get a TV again.
There are all those evangelists on Sunday, and I could use a good laugh as well as the next guy, Warmest, the Antichrist.
And when the pictures begin talking and the babies within days of birth begin talking to us, you'll have me, believe me, wrapped around your little finger, Kathleen.
I just wanted to get some comments from you on that and update everybody on the fact that we've got a cleaner way to get to your website.
That doesn't mean they're going to get there.
Because either not too many people can get on at once.
I made it myself tonight, so I know it's possible.
I just want to let everybody know that.
Instead of people sitting out there cursing me, cursing you, because they can't get in, they're just going to have to keep trying.
That information is available.
We have a direct route now, folks.
So, Kathleen, we're going to have you on the program again, I'm sure, soon.
All right, that's Kathleen Keating, and that information is available.
Now, why am I not giving it out?
Because I know in my heart of hearts that some Christian would take that name, and it is an individual alive on earth now, and go dispatch him quickly, saying, no doubt, as he did it, that he heard it on the Art Bell program.
So I choose not to do that for reasons that I hope you understand.
I hope you understand.
We were talking about the shooting at Santana High in California yesterday and whether or not it was evil.
And one caller in the, I think it was the first hour, wasn't it, called and pointed out that it's never a girl, that the shooter Is never a girl.
And I agreed.
I said, you know, you're right.
Well, maybe we should not have said that because today breaks the following from the Associated Press.
An eighth-grade girl shot a 13-year-old female classmate during lunch at a Roman Catholic school Wednesday before being subdued by a school administrator, according to officials.
The victim, also in the eighth grade, was shot in the right shoulder and was listed in stable condition.
The students at Bishop Newman Junior High School, junior, senior high, were taken to a nearby school where police were interviewing witnesses.
Details about the shooting not immediately available.
So they have no idea why she did it.
But for all of that, and it just ding, ding, ding, it went on like a light bulb above my head.
This color is right.
It's never a girl.
And the very next day after we talk about that, it's a girl.
Now, you know, again, I'm not saying that this represents a ding, ding, ding by Major Ed Dames, but when you listen to it, you've got to wonder.
The story says, this is from the Washington Times, by the way.
Forget the fact that some 1,500 assorted nuts, bolts, and chunks may rain down upon the Earth when Russia's vintage space station, Mir, plummets home again in about 10 days.
It's the mutant space fungus we should fret about.
After 15 years of festering away in various air ducts and control panels aboard the old orbiter, some mystery mold is also along for the ride.
A Yuri Karash said, I cannot overstate this.
A realistic problem exists.
This is now at a press conference in Moscow.
Now, how much are you hearing about this in the American press?
Not too much, right?
A former cosmonaut and now a journalist, he became unnerved after reviewing Mir documents at the city's 38-year-old Institute of Medical and Biological Problems, which once designed a life support system for a heavy interplanetary ship, among other things.
Washington residents can spot Mir in one of its final appearances, passing low in the northeastern skies at about 6.43 p.m. tomorrow for two minutes.
It'll be 10 degrees above the horizon.
That's not very far.
Meanwhile, Russian officials have become wary of assuring the governments of Japan and Australia, and more recently now Germany, that most of the spacecraft will incinerate upon entering Earth's atmosphere sometime between March 17th and 20th.
So in other words, we've got legit people in Russia saying, don't worry about the nuts and bolts.
Worry about this horrid fungus that has been growing in it for some time.
Because guess what?
It's coming back down with mirror.
And I thought I would read this for this poor gentleman in Tennessee, Lenoir City, L-E-N-O-I-R City, Tennessee.
Art, I feel horrible, but I had to do it.
I told my girlfriend of five years that essentially she wasn't smart enough to enjoy your program.
Well, sir, this is not off to a good start.
He goes on, it's mean, I know, and I've tried for months to get her to turn off the cartoon network and listen to your program, but she refused.
In insulting her, I hope to challenge her.
Boy, do you have a lot to learn, sir.
She's much smarter than she gives herself credit for, so I challenged her intelligence in order to expand her interests.
So she's listening tonight.
And I know what I have done is wrong.
I'm sorry.
But the intellectual stimulation she gains from this compelling program will quickly staunch the wounds.
From Sydney, Australia, a former Australian Army commando, get this folks, plans to jump off the edge of outer space and plummet 25 miles to Earth in the highest skydive ever.
His name is Rod Miller, 37 years of age.
He's going to make the 40,000-meter jump by riding in a hot air balloon right to the very edge of space.
And then he will wear an astronaut suit to protect his body from extreme pressures.
Unt jump!
The plan calls for Millner to fall at least 1,100 miles per hour during a seven-minute fall before opening a parachute.
The fall would make Milner the first human being to ever break the sound barrier unaided.
It's basically extreme science to see how far we can push it.
This is going to change the face of a lot of things, including emergency procedures for people exploring space, he was quoted as saying by the AAP.
Milner claims that scientists have helped him on the project, but it is not known if the human body is capable of enduring such a descent.
The jump may be a relaxing change for Milner, who teaches explosives and mine warfare to Australian Army recruits.
So this guy just can't get enough, and he's going to jump virtually from where the atmosphere goes away and the blackness of space begins.
One has to wonder if this is going from an Associated Press story, which by the way it is right now, to a Darwin nomination notation.
Anyway, I guess, let's see.
Project Space Jump will be launched from Alice Springs in March of 2002, so he's yet a year away from it.
Maybe somebody out there can talk him out of it.
Who knows?
And by the way, remember, Friday night, Saturday morning, this Friday night, Saturday morning, I am not going to be here.
In fact, Ian Punnett will be here with a guest that I know not who just yet.
I'm going to the Radio and Records Convention, talk radio convention in California.
Should be very interesting.
It's the first one I've ever been to, as a matter of fact.
I'll be there with Matt Drudge, and Matt and I are going to have a bit of a conversation upon the stage for the enjoyment of all those attending.
Stay right where you are.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 7, 2001.
The world and the seven seas, everybody's looking for something.
Some of them want to use you.
Some of them want to get used by you.
Some of them want to abuse you.
Some of them want to be abused Sweet dreams are made of these.
Sweet dreams are made of these.
I gave you love, I bought the wheel and made it to the top.
I gave you all, I have to give I didn't have to stop.
You blow the balls down.
I turned me a lie without a reason why you both died.
I've never been to lie.
You couldn't touch the time.
You've blown it off, shine Oh, oh, oh You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
Tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 7th, 2001.
He went to the appropriate place on Kathleen Keating's site and lifted the entire page, the one in which she reveals the Antichrist.
So, here we go.
This is something signed by Kathleen Keating.
And all we're doing is allowing some bandwidth so that we can put it up and you can definitely see it.
If you go to my website now at www.artbell.com and click on what's new, there are two things that you can see.
The first, Keating announces the Antichrist.
You will get it.
I can assure you, you will get it unless he decides you won't.
We'll have to see about that.
You can give it a shot anyway.
Item two under What's New is the actual written statement of John Glenn as collected by Keith Rowland from what I read last night, which was word for word from the Fraser Show.
And for all of you writing me email and saying things like, God, don't you know it was just a comedy?
Yes, yes, yes, yes, I do know it was just a comedy.
And every time I read it, I prefaced what I was reading by telling you it was just a comedy.
Right?
Do you remember that?
Do any of you remember that I put that preface in there?
So please, folks, listen to what I say.
It's very important that you listen precisely to what I say.
Yes, indeed, it was a comedy program.
I acknowledge that every time I read it last night.
I acknowledge it again tonight.
It's just that we thought it was a little strange that John Glenn would say those words, that they would come from his mouth.
And you've got to know, if he didn't want to say them, he would not have.
I don't absolutely say they're pure evil or that it's evil incarnate causing these shootings.
What I do say is that it has to be one of the possibilities, one of the main possibilities that you consider when you start thinking about why would somebody take a gun to school and smile and start shooting their classmates and smile all the while.
Now, that's got to be one of the possibilities.
unidentified
I wholly agree with you.
And my theory on that is that it's kind of timely seen as how you have Kathleen Keating on Monday night.
Well, you're not that old, but even when you were in high school, were they having these mass shootings?
unidentified
No, they were not.
It's completely a new thing.
I mean, probably I heard, or I saw on the news the other day, I think it was 60 Minutes last night maybe, that they had one in, I believe in 1979, but that was the first one that, if I remember correctly, that was the first one.
But here's a Russian cosmonaut very concerned that it's not going to burn up.
And as I said, if you've seen one science fiction movie, you know that it's not going to burn up, that a little bit's going to get through, and it's going to start eating people first thing, straight away.
unidentified
That's the next thing that happens.
I guess I never thought about it that way, but I just figured they're saying nothing, you're going to have to worry about it, nuts and bolts.
You know, there's a part of our brain that virtually demands that we worship and believe in the hereafter because to not do so would drive you absolutely crazy, and it very well might, and it's a protective function of the brain.
unidentified
Yes, but I think the human mind is suspicious of accidental perfection.
Biologically speaking, the mind is so amazing.
I have simple proof for this instinct of the existence of God, which I can share with you.
Well, all right, or put it another way, I think that Arthur C. Clarke was the one who said that anything, any technology sufficiently advanced would appear to us, I'm paraphrasing, as magic or perfection, or however you want to put it.
That's something we were kind of kicking around a couple of nights ago that's very interesting.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Morning.
unidentified
You've got another better-tasting Canadian on the line.
It's Dan calling from Dartmouth and Nova Scotia up in Canada.
But I was flying back from San Francisco last Friday, and I was flying over Nevada and Arizona, and I saw identical forms of structures as we were flying east, and what it looked like to me was there were runoff gullies.
I thought that too regarding runoff, but not the other part.
If you look carefully at these photographs, you will see, particularly if you look at the close-ups, you will see an obvious translucent quality to them that's impossible to explain.
I mean, that's just impossible to explain, unless it's glass or it's some type of almost clear but not quite clear material.
And that's not something you would expect to see on Mars.
unidentified
Maybe it's some kind of some water or condensation.
Now another question though, I went through about I guess 800 of these images and a good portion of them were in color and I was wondering do you know if it's false color or if the It's real color.
In our day and time, as TV by talking about Kathleen, if any of my pictures begin to talk or I encounter a newborn baby that begins to talk to me, I'm going to be right in her corner real quick.
I'm a doubter.
I'm a skeptic.
I don't know what I am.
I'm not exactly a non-believer because there are lots of things I do believe in.
I guess I'm agnostic, but believe me, if the pictures and babies start talking, I'll be right there.
Kathleen, I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM, running through the night like a freight train.
unidentified
You'll listen to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 7, 2001.
My love is up to you anytime today.
It's all love that you need.
And I've tried my best to play everything to see.
I've tried my best to play everything to see.
Where are those happy days?
They seem so hard to find.
I tried to reach for you, but you have lost too much.
Whatever happened to my love.
I wish I understood it just the face of lies, it used to face the face of us, it used to face.
So when you're near me darling, can't you hear me?
S.O.S.
The love you gave me, nothing else can save me.
S.O.S.
When you're gone, how can I even try to go on?
When you're gone, go on try, how can I carry on?
Yeah.
You seem so far away that you are standing near.
Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's program originally aired March 7th, 2001.
So then, tell us everything you know about cloning.
I don't know how else to ask.
I'm fascinated by the whole concept of cloning.
I interviewed a representative of the Israeli religion, and they claim that they're about to clone.
Some are claiming they've actually already got a woman pregnant.
So I don't know where they sit right now since the interview I did.
That was, oh, I don't know, two or three weeks ago.
and i'm sure you ran into them as you did your research but by the way in the whole cloning world right now what's good Well, it's possible that we've cloned by accident.
By accident?
unidentified
By accident.
Let me just take a second and explain that.
There's an IVF procedure that's known as ICSI, that's ICSI, and it stands for intra-cytoplasmic sperm injection.
And what ICSI does is helps men who would otherwise be infertile, helps them have babies, by directly injecting sperm into the egg rather than relying on the sperm to get in there on their own.
Now, when they do ICSI, they have a sort of a plate full of sperm.
But there's also a cell type that hangs around sperm, and in women it hangs around eggs.
I always understood it to be a precise replica, that the DNA would be exactly the same.
You say no.
unidentified
That's right.
about 1%, 1.5% of the DNA would be mitochondrial DNA.
And all you need is one slight difference and suddenly you've got You're right.
Yeah, it's a common myth.
It's something a lot of people think, and they have reason to, because after DALI was created, all the images that we saw, all the images we were exposed to, had repeated copies of Adolf Hitler and Michael Jordan and all the rest.
And so we didn't hear anything else other than that you could make copies of people.
You would get a baby who shared an awful lot of traits with mom or dad.
They would look a lot alike as they grew older, but still a little different because time itself etches itself on our faces, our bodies, in different ways.
To have clones of themselves for whatever their reason, they think they're getting an exact duplicate.
And are they being sold that bill of goods, or are they being told the truth?
unidentified
In some cases, they are being sold that bill of goods.
In other cases, people are saying, look, you're not going to get an exact duplicate.
And they say, you know, we don't care.
This is close enough for us.
We understand this will be a unique individual, but at least the blueprint of the person that we loved, that died tragically, for example, in many cases, the blueprint will be back with us.
And we treasure those traits.
That's some of what people are thinking.
I did interview a couple of people who thought they were going to get their dead child back, literally.
So he says, among other things, that almost all of the first 100 clones will probably abort spontaneously because of genetic Or physical abnormalities.
Now, assuming that some percentage of those don't abort, you're going to get some monsters.
unidentified
Well, that's a guess.
And that's a good guess.
It's based on his reporting.
And Rick Weiss is one of the people who follows cloning very carefully.
In fact, he says, let me just read this and then I'll let you go on.
Other leading animal cloners know, and we're talking about animals now, that behind the stunning stories of cloning successes in cows, sheep, goats, pigs, and mice, 95 to 97% of efforts still end in his word disaster.
unidentified
Well, that's right.
I wouldn't necessarily use the word disaster.
Let me explain a little bit about failure rates and so on.
Now, let's say that you start with 100 eggs and you perform the cloning procedure on all 100.
Scientists and people who clone animals have a reasonable expectation of getting five live births out of that 100.
So you get a five, that's what's called a 5% efficiency rate or a 5% success rate.
Now, most of those 100 eggs either won't divide or will fail soon after dividing a couple of times.
So they will never be implanted.
They implant maybe 10%, maybe 10 out of 100 get implanted.
And about five of those scientists would expect to be born alive.
So when you sort of narrow down what the risks are and what the success rates are, you have to kind of be careful where you start.
You know, you could say that if you implant 10 and you get 5, you have a 50% success rate.
Or you could say if you start with 100 eggs and you get 5, you've got a 5% success rate.
So you've got to be a little bit careful about that.
Now, as far as disasters are concerned, cows especially seem to have a problem with what's called the large cow syndrome or large calf syndrome.
There's a problem of communication, at least the theory is, there's a problem of communication between the embryo and then the developing fetus and the mother.
I realize it's not, but they're going to end up with some failures that live.
And what do we as a society do about that?
I know in America, I guess, there really are no laws against cloning.
There are laws in Great Britain, I believe, but not here.
So we're going to plow ahead, and we're going to inevitably end up with some disfigured, terrible things.
Should we be going ahead with this?
unidentified
Well, should we go ahead with it right now?
I would say no, but that isn't stopping people.
It is going forward, I believe.
Now, whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I think it's dangerous, and I think it's too dangerous to be doing it now for all the reasons that we've just talked about.
Now, the Raelians actually went a step further, and they suggested that, yes, they're going to clone, and that eventually their hope, get this, their hope is that you'll be able to take the contents of a person's brain and download it,
essentially download it, kind of like wiping a disk drive clean and then downloading the person into the clone so that you virtually could live forever.
Have you heard this?
unidentified
Yep, that's the idea.
I sat down with Rael up in Quebec, and we talked about this very thing.
You know, the idea is that he's basing this on the book of Genesis, where the patriarch lived to be 700 or 800 years.
And so what he's saying is that every seven or eight hundred years, we will sort of check ourselves into the cloning center, and we'll have a new body made that will pop out about 17 years old, a body of 17 years old, and then we'll download ourselves into this new body and therefore continue on living forever.
You know, he's not the first guy to talk about this concept.
There has been this concept floating around called the soul chip, which is sort of the hard drive for our personalities and our souls.
Well, if we're toying around with these ideas here in public, I mean, after all, you've interviewed these people who are all gangbusters to go and clone.
If that's what's happening in public, then kind of like I live near Area 51 here.
And you have to wonder, with what we've got flying in the sky now, I don't know if you've ever seen a B2, they're pretty exotic.
Imagine what they've got up at the secret test site.
So if we imagine all of this publicly, that you and I are openly talking about right now, what might be going on in secret labs behind closed doors?
unidentified
Well, one of the things I say in the wired story is that this could very easily have already been done in any of 300 in vitro fertilization clinics around the world.
I quote scientists saying that you need a good molecular biologist or a good cell biologist and an IVF doctor, and you could do it in a small closet.
And in fact, you could do it and nobody would really even know about it because it looks so much like other IVF procedures.
Did you interview some of them, and what did they say?
unidentified
I interviewed as many people as I could find, and they told me stories about losing children to accidents.
They told me stories about being married, being infertile, wanting to have children, having gone through three or four rounds of IVF hope, and then having that dashed.
They would like to try to use cloning then to do that.
And of that number of people, Brian, how many of them were under the misconception that cloning would produce an exact duplicate?
unidentified
There were a couple of people who had lost children, who were hoping to literally recreate the children.
Other people who had lost loved ones knew that they would not get an exact duplicate, that they would get a unique individual, but were hoping to just sort of recapture some of the traits of the past person.
Is there anybody in the cloning world who believes that you're going to be able to clone a human being and have it appear as something other than a newborn?
unidentified
No.
Except, you know, the Realians think that sometime in the future that will happen.
Mr. Alexander, I just had a question for you as far as, I mean, does cloning go as far as to bring back to life a deceased family member or something you can bring back to a certain age?
Or are there certain elements that enter into bringing them to 10 years old or 20 years old or 30 years old?
Well, right, but he's on to something here because there is a new branch of biotechnology called rejuvenative Medicine, and that involves the cloning of organs.
In other words, they'll use one of my cells and they'll use the same procedure they would use to make a clone of a person, and they would eventually try to direct those cells to make new liver tissue for a while or a new heart or a new heart and so on.
There's some speculation.
I wrote another story for Wired that came out about a year ago called Don't Die, Stay Pretty.
And part of that story revolved around this concept of being able to essentially check yourself in to have replacement organs made and extend lifespan that way.
My question kind of revolved around your last suggestion on cloning organs.
Contrary to what Dr. Day thinks, I think organ transplantation is about the best thing we've got at the moment.
And, you know, it's definitely not a disaster.
I being a lucky recipient of one.
And I'm curious as to who is working on transplanting cloned organs and who is using the lattice work to create structure for organs to grow on.
The last I heard, it was coming along well with bladders and ears and things with cartilage.
And I was wondering how it was going with kidneys.
Kidneys are slightly more complex organ than, say, a liver is.
Right now, they have made livers for mice already.
They've also made pancreatic eyelet cells in an attempt to cure diabetes.
And they have used this architecture that I think you're referring to, this sort of lattice work.
This is what gets involved in an area called stem cells.
And if just take a second, the earliest cells in an embryo are what are called toady potent stem cells.
They become all the different cell types in the body.
So the idea is that if you could get a todipotent stem cell, direct it to become, say, a liver cell or a heart cell, you could make a new organ that would be perfectly compatible to the person who needs it.
Tommy Thompson, the new Secretary of Health and Human Services, was testifying just the other day before Congress and saying that he was troubled by the ban on federal money being used for stem cell research.
The Bush administration has sort of hinted that it's opposed to it.
So now you've got these conflicting signals and nobody's really sure what's coming down the bike.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Brian Alexander.
Hi.
unidentified
Hi, Art.
Hi, Brian.
This is Sharon up in Southern Idaho.
I thought that there was a problem with the age of the DNA, that they discovered this with Dolly, so that if you were trying to clone someone who was an older person or someone who had passed away or whatever, that you would have trouble with the DNA.
Well, there was cellular testing done on Dolly, and her cells appeared that they measured what's called the telomere.
It's an area of a chromosome at the end.
And they appeared to be accelerated in their aging, meaning they sort of picked up where the other animal from which Dolly was cloned left off.
That turns out to not be a problem.
Dolly has lived a perfectly normal life.
She's about six and a half years old now, which is actually longer than the basic sheep lives on a farm because they go to slaughterhouses, but does not seem to be aging any faster.
It's also turned out that, for example, cows seem to be actually younger.
yep and the cloned mice have lived up to thirty percent longer than the normal mouth life span and i think what i heard you talk about work some people pronounce it telomeres All right.
In other words, should this be carefully controlled by the government experimentally?
Should it be as it is now, where virtually anybody can do anything they want, or something in between?
unidentified
I think it ought to be about the way it is now, because currently the FDA has a ruling that says that if you want to try to clone a human being, you have to file what's called an investigational new drug application.
Now, that is of dubious legal standing, and if anybody were to challenge it, it may very well fall.
But do we really want the government to be involved directly in the practice of medicine?
Currently, the government does not regulate, to a large degree anyway, the practice of medicine.
You're free to go to your doctor, and he's free to try things on you if you agree to it and you have informed consent and so on.
If you regard cloning as a potential IVF procedure, for example, for infertile couples, suddenly the government is giving approval to that or not approval to that.
That is what they do in Great Britain.
There is an authority, a board, that decides what kind of IVF procedures are legal and what kind aren't.
And I'm sure that in the U.S., that's the kind of thing that we want to have.
Even though you see troubled times ahead in cloning, you still don't want to close it up.
You don't want the government clamping down on it.
unidentified
There's a great deal of biomedical research that relies on the technology of cloning.
Stem cells and the creation of organs is a very good example.
Curing of Parkinson's disease and so on.
It all uses the same cloning technology.
It just doesn't make babies that if you start to muck around in that with legislation, sometimes you can end up banning the very thing you want to promote.
On the other hand, if Dr. X in Laboratory Z produces a human clone that is a kind of a Frankenstein monster but unfortunately lives, what kind of situation is that doctor in?
unidentified
Well, you've just hit the nail on the head with what people who work in vitro fertilization, people who work with stem cells, this is what they're terrified of.
The last thing they need with people's fears about biotechnology is to have some freakish baby show up on TV somewhere.
And suddenly they have a big outcry to ban all sorts of things.
That's why they're so very offended by the people who have gone public and said that they want to clone.
I read a letter that indicated that at the infamous Area 51 that's fairly near me, there had been, you know, we were talking about our government a moment ago.
It's almost hard to believe that our own government could resist the temptation to experiment in this area for all kinds of reasons, Brian.
One of them would be, of course, the perfect soldier, somebody with very strong physical traits, somebody psychologically predisposed to being kind of violent.
You know, somebody who would go out there and kill and break things.
No, but we are our DNA plus our environment, right?
That's what constitutes us.
So if the government were to clone and get all the right aspects physically and trends psychologically, then providing the right environment might provide the kind of soldier that Uncle Sam wants.
unidentified
Well, sure, but Marine Boot Camp does a pretty good job of that right now.
Hey, Liz and Brian, I want to thank you for being here tonight.
Sorry it was such a short stay, but you've really been very informative, busting up some of what was thought to be fact about cloning, and I thank you.
And by the way, Kathleen Keating's webpage is, part of it's up on ours right now, so you can check it out and see what Kathleen Keating said about the Antichrist.
All right, prepare thyself for Here Comes Open Lines, and I can't guarantee what's going to happen.
I never can.
But I am looking for those who claim to be the Antichrist.
I am looking for time travelers.
I am looking for the truly bizarre.
We'll see what we get.
You've got the numbers.
We'll get underway in a moment.
Yesterday, a lady called, and I, boy, did I agree with her.
All of these school shootings have been boys, not girls.
Well, not even 24 hours later, the Associated Press reports an eighth-grade girl shot a 13-year-old female classmate during lunch at a Roman Catholic school Wednesday before being subdued by the school administrator.
She's alive, and I guess she's okay, but she's been shot, and by a female, by a girl at that point.
And then the one other thing that I wanted to get out to you tonight, because I thought it was quite striking, and I note the mainstream press doesn't seem to be exactly jumping on this, is the following.
Forget the fact that some 1,500 assorted nuts, bolts, and chunks may rain down upon the Earth when Russia's vintage space station Mir plummets home again in about 10 days.
It's the mutant space fungus that we should first fret about.
After 15 years of festering away in various air ducts, control panels aboard the old orbiter, some mystery mold is also along for the ride.
Yuri Karush said yesterday at a press conference in Moscow, quote, I cannot overstate this.
A realistic problem exists, end quote.
A former cosmonaut, now journalist, former cosmonaut, mind you, he became unnerved after reviewing Mir documents at the city's 38-year-old Institute of Medical and Biological Problems, which once designed a life support system for heavy interplanetary ships.
In other words, this is no lightweight.
This is a former cosmonaut who ought to know what he's talking about, saying, forget about the hardware.
Worry about what's growing on Mir because it's coming down with Mir.
All right.
Let's see what awaits out there in the vast unknown.
No, I don't, because, of course, nobody but he who told you and perhaps your mom who's now gone, you say, would be able to tell us what it's all about.
Well, what I'm trying to tell you is, and all the nice listeners and everything, is that we really don't have to worry that much about all the stuff that's coming down because I'm here.
Are you deformed, or in some way deformed, or mentally unbalanced?
unidentified
Some people might say so, yes.
But I would like to say that in general, the reason why no one ever gets a Bigfoot is because they do have a base underground, and they let them out to do things because they were, at one time, outdoors creatures, and so they do like to run around up here on our planet every now and then.
Now, they do say the engine is really the main event.
That the scooter is not it, but that the cell they're going to use, the hydrogen cell, is going to be the big event that eventually it'll work for cars and all the rest of it.
So in other words, our little tyke is now five years old.
unidentified
Yeah, and see, we've always joked, my boyfriend and I, about him being evil, you know, because he was born on June 25th, and we always thought that was funny.
It was kind of like, you know, six months after Christmas, and we used to joke around to call him the Antichrist.
And my father would never believe anything like this, so he took us all aside and said we need to keep him away from all the other children.
And so we did that.
But now hearing about, when I heard your whole thing the other night about the Antichrist, I was almost relieved thinking that he's been found and he's not my nephew.
I also wanted to ask you if Kathleen Keating had any type of advice, you know, how you'd handle this if I did find maybe something in his hairline when I babysat him or like numbers?
Yeah, if I did, which I haven't, but if I, you know, were to find anything, what would I do?
You know, there'd be no way they would believe anything like this.
And maybe that'll help out a lot of other people at the same time.
I want to remind you, by the way, I'm not going to be here this Friday night, Saturday morning.
I want to say this again.
I'm going to be down in California at the Radio and Records Talk Radio Convention, where I understand that I will be mono-on-mono with a certain reporter back east named Matt Drudge.
Should be interesting.
Matt's had a lot to report about me and many others.
And I'm kind of looking forward to it.
Wildcard line, you're on the air.
Hello.
unidentified
Hi, Art.
This is Marilyn outside of Memphis in Bahalu, Mississippi.
I was just saying on the website, Dave, when I was at the library of yours, that the beer's coming down around or about 16th.
I was thinking that the HAARP system, this might be an advantageous time for the United States maybe to prove something one way or the other with the HARP system, maybe a little target practice.
Well, the HARP system is designed to not go into outer space.
It's designed to actually either burn a hole in the ionosphere or reflect from the ionosphere, coming back to Earth, to look for tunnels and bunkers and that sort of thing, or to cause the ionosphere to change in some way, but not to go into space.
Now, of course, once the mirror crosses that line, I suppose HARP could take a shot at it.
unidentified
Yeah, it's possible.
Just one other thing.
I was coming across some stuff I seen the other day.
I was reminiscing back about Carl Sagan.
It's been 20 years since Carl Sagan came out with Cosmos.
And for me, 20 years really gave me he just explained things, the universe so eloquently.
Well, that was the magic, of course, of Carl Sagan, that he could take hard science and he could explain it so that everybody understood it.
The person closest to that now, I think, and there probably are several, but Dr. Michio Kaku is probably the closest.
Now, if we could find another astronomer like Carl Sagan with the abilities, the vocal abilities Carl Sagan had, that would really be something, wouldn't it?
Well, regarding your earlier guest, and talking about downloading consciousness into a clone and such, the concept that would be really scary for me is that say you're starting from Conscience A, you know, the original donor, and you've got your clone ready and all that.
I guess a good analogy would be like, I'm a chain smoker of cigarettes, right?
And sometimes you'll take a cigarette, you'll light a cigarette from the one that you were smoking before.
And so the interesting question is, which one would have the soul?
unidentified
Yeah, exactly.
That's the point I guess I'm making is that what if, all right, you've got to download the new clone and all that, but your soul's still stuck in the old body?
God, I just had a stupid bug land on my coffee a little while ago, and it totally freaked me out.
If I looked up and saw something like that, that'd be the end of me.
unidentified
I'd run off the road.
I was driving rather slow because I was tired, and I was pulling green chain, which is hard work, and was heading home.
And when I saw that, I punched it to the accelerator to the floor.
And the funny thing is, is that the next day I read in the newspaper down there in Santa Rosa they had the county fair going on at the time, and there was a couple dozen people that saw two or three of these things, the same thing.
Then, to top it off, he went out and had to rent a warehouse because his parole officer wasn't real happy with him, rented a warehouse and made a giant model of what he considered to be a time machine and was going to walk through it.
Well, long story short, he's never been heard from again.
He'd know to get hold of me by email or one way or the other.
And he hasn't.
Madman Markham is gone.
unidentified
You would think, yeah.
One other thing, those of us that may have missed the show that you were talking about, the Antichrist, you had a caller on earlier that you had cut off because they had mentioned a name on the air?
In fact, I should repeat this because everybody wants to know I know.
Go to my website, go to What's New, and the Kathleen Keating webpage, signed by Kathleen, is there for you to read now, and you will be able to get it on my website now.
I wanted to ask you, this is off all the subjects tonight, but one of your songs that you play every now and then, I've only heard it a couple times, it has the words Rockaby Baby and When the Wind Blows, and I've been trying to find out the name and the singer so I could get a copy of it.
However, just one more time, I want to say this because I think the international line is dysfunctional.
We have done a very interesting thing.
We have taken the tasty Canadians and moved them from the international line to respectively the east and west of the Rockies line, along with Americans.
So now all we have is the international line, supposedly international for the rest of the world.
But I have my doubts.
The phone company is working very hard on this.
They have software that is supposed to allow this to occur.
But I have serious doubts.
So tonight I'm going to test the international line, and I have a feeling it's dysfunctional.
One more time.
I don't care where you are in the world.
What I want you to do is call the AT ⁇ T operator.
It's a free call.
It's absolutely free.
Call the AT ⁇ T operator, Korea, Japan, Europe, South America, doesn't matter.
And have her call 800-893-0903.
Once again, 800-893-0903.
Now, if you find that you're unable to get through on the international line, what I would like you to do is email me and tell me you couldn't get through.
And in that way, we will go to the phone company and say, see, it's not working.
So the way you would email me to let me know is to fire me off some email.
Let me know what country you're in.
My email address is Artbell.
That's A-R-T-B-E-L-L at mindspring.com.
We'll use that address only for this.
Artbell at mindspring.com.
And let me know what country you're in and the fact that you could not get through on the international line.
Or give it a shot and get through.
Either way, before the night is out, we will know.
And in the morning, we will talk to the telephone company who you would think would treat somebody with a last name like Bell a little better.
Have you ever come across any incidences where a child has believed to have been abducted, had an abduction experience, and experienced any hair loss as a result?
Or only if they were dropped back to earth by their hair and it ripped.
unidentified
Okay.
I'm just wondering if it's, because I haven't come across any in literature, and I have reason to believe that myself and my children have been involved in abduction situations.
But I just wanted to call and let you know that all that stuff that they say about Area 51, I don't know some of the callers you have, but most of them that sound relatively intelligent have been out there, I would imagine or assume.
Apparently, his parents are divorced, and he's been separated from his mother, only talks to her a couple times a year, and got moved out here from, I think, Maryland, or, yeah, I think it was Maryland.
Moved out to California and didn't like the school, didn't like the people.
You know, he just absolutely hated it and wanted to move back to where he was from.
I know, but there's about 10 million miles of difference from somebody who is disturbed or emotionally distraught or even depressed and somebody who walks around with a smile on their face, killing.
unidentified
Well, there is, but when you get to that young, I don't know that the wine is that distinct for them.
I had an experience, I believe it was 1992 or the winter of 93, in Rockland County on the Palisades Parkway.
I don't know if you know the area, but for people that don't know the area, it's two lanes north, two lanes south, with a median between the two lanes.
Anyway, the median in the middle is probably about 50 yards wide and has trees right up the whole length of it as far as you could go with a few exceptions.
I was leaving my girlfriend's house.
It was probably about 2.30 in the morning.
She lives about 20 minutes from my house.
I live just on this side of the Hudson River in Westchester County.
And I left her house in the middle of a snowstorm.
There were no other cars on the road.
There was a good five, six inches of snow just blanketing everything.
And I was driving very slowly, for obvious reasons.
Sure.
The road stretching out ahead of me.
The sky was bright and pink.
There were no lampposts, no road lights on this road.
But it was pretty bright out.
And the flakes were big.
It was coming towards me.
It's like one of those nights where you drive slow because you drive off the road, basically.
No other cars on the road.
And I was actually driving along slowly, kind of enjoying myself with the serenity of the whole atmosphere.
And I had my window open.
It wasn't terribly cold.
And on the other side of the median, on the other side of the road where traffic should be heading in the opposite direction, all of a sudden what appeared pacing me on the other side of the road were what seemed to be very bright white headlights that were pacing me at the exact same speed.
And I was looking across at this, and I slowed way down, and this, what I thought was a car, slowed way down, and I thought, oh, my God, if anybody comes up north, you know, we're going to have a nasty head-on collision here.
I might have thought for a moment, oh, my God, I'm on the wrong side of the road.
unidentified
Well, anyway.
Yes, you have this talent for putting people at ease, by the way.
Thank you.
Anyway, what I thought was a car was just pacing me, and I sped up and slowed down at certain points.
This is going on for about five to seven minutes or so, and then I realized that these lights were pretty high off the road, not quite treetop height, but I'd probably guesstimate it maybe 15, 20 feet high.
Even higher than a car.
I thought, you know, trucks can't fit on this road.
It's just not made for it.
It's cars only no trucks.
And as I was slowing down, I was watching this car thinking, oh my God, we're going to have a head-on collision.
God, I'm very serious about this international line thing.
Let me try one more time.
I don't care where you are in the world.
We've confirmed Germany so far.
We know Germany can get through.
But I haven't heard from Australia, and they're pretty frequent customers on the international line.
So I don't care where you are in the world.
Call your operator and get the AT ⁇ T operator on the phone.
The AT ⁇ T operator.
That's the one you want.
And tell her you want to call 800-893-0903.
We are testing tonight to see if this line is truly international.
So far, we seem to have a pipeline to Germany, and that's about it.
So get on the phone.
And also, the second part of this is, if you cannot get through out there, send me email and let me know where you are and the fact that you could not get through.
Send that email to artbell at mindspring.com.
That's Art Bell at MindSpring.com.
Art Bell All right, let us experimentally, very quickly go to the international line.
Well, let me tell you, I went to sleep and I had a very, very, very vivid dream that my car was sitting still on this road, and I was surrounded by deer.
This was the only recollection I had of the dream.
In subsequent years, I've had flashes of continuations of this dream where all the deer had hands and they were taking me by both hands.
And I remember how I was feeling very calm and very relaxed.
And it wasn't until a few years later, after I was having more flashes of dream, where I was going towards the light, and I looked back at my car.
The deer were by my car, and they were following me, and there was one or two standing by this light.
Until I read this book by John Mack, in his opening chapter, he tells how people have had experiences where they've experienced animals that have, or say, extraterrestrials that have deceived people into thinking somehow that they were animals or whatever.
Well, you know, it sounds to me like you've had an experience, and probably you ought to get hold of John Mack.
I mean, your story is really strange.
unidentified
But the thing was, after that, it sort of triggered memories where I continued having flashes of dreams where I then realized that I was taken into a craft.
And when I woke up that morning, and I never thought about it until I read his book, I had a scar, or let's say like a deep scratch mark, right by my navel that I couldn't understand where it came from the next day.
Like, how did I scratch myself in my sleep?
And it's like, I still have a scar there now to this day.
It's almost like a horseshoe kind of a shape thing.
Like a hoof.
And yeah.
And I've had ever since then I've had, I don't know if you've ever heard of such a thing.
By then, I believe China as a whole will be into the World Trade Center.
And Hong Kong still being a very economical power of Asia, I don't think there will be too many changes because of the fact that there is so much here in Hong Kong to offer.
I had a friend inform me, she was very into the whole alien thing, and she was telling me that I obviously was an abductee from experiences I had told her about.
And I was like, well, the less I know, the better, because if I find out and then I find out I'm an abductee, what the heck am I going to do about it?
Just too bad until they decide to come talk to us.
And kind of like us here, we get the Los Angeles stuff.
unidentified
Right.
The year after I graduated, they had security systems to scan you for weapons and stuff coming into a school because they weren't going to play that game of, oh, it doesn't happen here.
And the fact that when I think about how many kids so far in the media in the last year have gone into a school with weapons, it's like, folks, grow up, get some protection, take care of yourself.
But it comes down to, you know, you get into you have a group of friends, and then your group of friends expands, and then someone else's group of friends decides that they have a problem with that.
You know, and that's basically how it developed.
At least in areas like that that don't have long time like bloods and crypts.
We didn't have all that.
It just, you know, we were part of the first ones that happened there.
And we actually have an FBI file where they investigated us for gun running.
So we're going to blame it on a chemical imbalance.
unidentified
No, no, no, no, no, no.
Wait.
I went in, but when I hit puberty, okay, it balanced all that out.
In the meantime, they had had me on a treatment, but the main problem was at that point my mental was so far out of whack, all right, that they had to coax me back to convince me that the world is an evil place, that kind of thing.
But all of that was corrected.
All of my therapy was done before I hit high school.
So now I'm not saying that that has the part to do with it.
My whole point, actually, I'll quit wandering around here, is that my mother always said that manners are the essence of survival in today's society.
And she's being proven correct by the fact that most of the kids that have decided, okay, I have to murder half my school are the targets.
Like, the media really caught on to that whole trench coat mafia, which was the mocking term that school used to refer to those kids by.
You know what I mean?
And I'm like, I don't believe it's a justification.
And I would love to know at what point, I don't know when we crossed the line where it was, okay, I'm going to beat that kid into the ground to, okay, I'm going to shoot that kid.
I don't know when that happened.
I remember no beating people up when I was in school.
And I'd come up to them like a buddy, right up next to him, slide my head up the back, kick my foot in front and trip them, and then smash their face to the floor.
That was my favorite.
That was my register move, but only if they earned it.
Um and I thought three or four years ago we were told on the news here that each person in the UK has probably eaten about at least 50 plates 50 meals containing PSE.