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March 7, 2001 - Art Bell

02:50:25

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Brian Alexander - Cloning - Open Lines Antichrist Letter

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01:16:01

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kathleen keating

00:53

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Summer in Time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast A.M. from March 7th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and or good morning wherever you may be across this great land of ours.
		And that includes areas commercially from the Tahitian, the Hawaiian Islands, Guam, out across the date line in the west, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands.
		A lot of territory south into South America and north all the way to the Pole.
		This is Post of Coast AM.
		And I'm Marpell.
		And never in my life have I seen such a brouha ha with regarding to the Kathleen Keating show that we did at the first of the week.
		Oh, brother.
		The revelation of the name of the person that Kathleen Keating believes is the Antichrist has really stirred up a fur.
		And I'm telling you right now, I'm not going to give that name, nor the organization.
		It is, however, on her website.
		Her website, however, is...
		You can make up your own mind about that.
		I've got Kathleen on the line.
		And we're going to talk to her for just a moment here at the beginning of the show.
		So I've got that whole lot more in open lines, and then a discussion with a very interesting gentleman by the name of Brian Alexander, who writes for Wired magazine on cloning.
		A lot going on tonight.
		right where you are.
		All right.
unidentified		Here we go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We now have a new link to Kathleen Keating's website.
		In fact, the specific area where the name of the Antichrist, the person she believes is the Antichrist and the organization, is in fact printed.
		Now, if you got on her site, you might not have been able to find it.
		You had to know where to look.
		So we've put a specific link now to where it is.
		That will help you.
		But there have been some pretty weird things, I must say, going on.
		This whole topic of the Antichrist is a really strange one.
		Kathleen, hi there.
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for coming on tonight.
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no problem.
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for having me, Pat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What an uproar.
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's been crazy.
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		I think the price on my head went up exponentially after Monday night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, anyway, whether it's some outside influence or your website unable to handle the traffic, I wouldn't have any idea.
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		I think it's a little bit of both.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It may be a little bit of both.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The fact of the matter is, if people are persistent, they will eventually get through, right?
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		And we also have a link on the front page as you just go into the site.
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		It will take you right to that article.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's very helpful.
		I want to read something that I've received.
		In view of right below where you identify the Antichrist, you say there's also another guy in New Mexico who appears to be vying for the same infamous title.
		This may add to some confusion, but I think there is a reason we're seeing two world teachers.
		It is true there will be many smaller Antichrists, some significant players, especially world leaders, who will qualify as Antichrists.
		However, in the end, only one man will be the ultimate Antichrist.
		But there will be others, huh?
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		There will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I've got an email that I want to read you that I thought was creepy, so I'm going to read it to you and then I'm going to get your reaction.
		A dear Mr. Bell, I've just heard much of your interview with Kathleen Keating on streaming audio and write to take the pressure off that poor goof from the UN, who she has quite incorrectly identified as the Antichrist.
		And writing you isn't the only thing I'm doing.
		You'll notice that her website is still inoperable.
		You see, the fact is, I am the Antichrist.
		I'd like to call into one of your programs, but frankly, I'm just too busy.
		It's always like this when I'm on this side of the Atlantic.
		There is an invisible cocoon blocking rational thought that is stretched around this part of the world, and arguably Texas Christian University in particular, and thank God for that.
		Facts just do not penetrate this far into what I like to call my personal territory.
		In Europe and other places closer to ground zero, the Mount, Whaling Wall, Jerusalem, whatever you want to call it, scholarship is more, how should I say it, exacting.
		Thus, many people over there know a few things.
		But I'd like to take the time to bring you up to speed on.
		Please feel free to check my facts.
		Just because I am the Antichrist doesn't mean that I'm infallible.
		After all, I'm stuck in this really clumsy, older body.
		And sometimes life is a struggle.
		I don't recall things as well as I used to.
		So when the Jews were looking for a Messiah, they really didn't believe one would ever arrive.
		A phrase current at the time was, when the Messiah comes, by which was not meant that the Messiah would be engaging in a sexual act, but rather he might arrive.
		The oddsmakers throughout the whole proposition find the whole proposition rather sketchy.
		Your equivalent today is the second coming of Christ Almighty, which means the same thing, and nobody is too mussed up about it.
		And this time, the Messiah might very well be a woman.
		Last time, this honor went to Isa Maria.
		But I digress.
		The Messiah was to have four qualities.
		The person so honored was to be the perfect embodiment of the qualities, male and female, and also completely spiritual and physical as well.
		The glyph by which one speaks of this, then though over here, not so much now, was a cross.
		So we have four quadrants defined by this cross.
		And each of the quadrants, we write a Hebrew Letter, which stood for one of the four qualities.
		It traditionally rendered Yahshua, I believe, or Greek Jesus.
		It is a title, not a name.
		It is to be earned, not bestowed at birth.
		So, in Luke, the instructions for naming this lad read that you will call his name Emmanuel when the kid gets here, because he's got a hell of a shot at this whole Messiah thing.
		So, the child who arrives, not by virgin birth, as any Christian in Lebanon, among other places, will tell you, is first destined to be a man, and he is given the name Isa, which is a diminutive of Isaiah, which means God and salvation.
		In Greek, of course, the name is Emmanuel.
		Now, I regret to say that Kathleen Keating, sounds a bit like cheating, doesn't it, did not demonstrate too much of her research skills in your program.
		Indeed, one thought that her best efforts were to consult some Christian in Oklahoma with an address to an institute that's really the back of a privy door.
		I know the place because I provide the funding.
		And there's more.
		Oh, yes, really.
		Keating says the Antichrist drives up in a beamer.
		I don't like beamers.
		Tom was right.
		They're like most European cars, designed and built by people who would rather hike.
		Here's where Miss Keating, oops, Keating really gets caught out in this business of discrimination.
		So a multi-level marketer shows up driving a beamer.
		And I'd have thought this was a blatant attempt to impress her.
		And he says something like, how'd you like your life to go a lot better?
		Or could you use another $100 a day or whatever?
		And she's so paranoid about the Antichrist, she doesn't even make eye contact.
		I categorically deny for your information, and by the way, that I have been stalking her.
		Well, any salesman will tell you, and I've trained a few of them, how about that Billy Graham, that if the mark won't even look at you, you're wasting your time.
		So by the time the salesman gets in his car, quiet doors with beamers, and slides off down the block, she thinks he's disappeared.
		Oh, my back.
		Anyway, I don't know Ms. Keating and will read her even less now that I've heard her.
		As I say, I'm pretty busy up here in North Vancouver, Canada.
		I help out now and again because the Christians don't see that you have to spout back what they believe based on not much before they do help.
		I know a woman whose children were both abused by her husband.
		When this was discovered, the woman took the kids and ran.
		Members of the church conducted an exorcism of her as she was possessed by, George, I love this country.
		And did you hear what kind of abuse I got just for lightening the weather load on New York City last week?
		Nothing but vituperation.
		I guess they were just desperate to close the airports.
		Oh, well, what's an Antichrist to do?
	I enjoy your show.
	The one with Ms. Keating reminds me that I've got to get a TV again.
	There are all those evangelists on Sunday, and I could use a good laugh as well as the next guy, Warmest, the Antichrist.
	What do you think, Kathleen?
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		He didn't even have the courage to put his name on that diatribe, that wonderful piece of fiction and blasphemy all rolled into one.
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		My.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you might react to it about that way.
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		He must have stayed up late.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He must have stayed up late, yeah.
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		Goodness.
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		Is that the best he could do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I found it a little unnerving, and I guess, you know, it may come into the category of the second group of Antichrists.
		I'm sure he'd have a great argument with that that you've described here.
		I don't know.
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		I bet he can get a book deal, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you did.
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		Well, barely.
unidentified		Barely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, listen, I hope it's going well with the book.
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		Well, hopefully it is.
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		We're still taking calls and will continue to do so until the orders stop.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when the pictures begin talking and the babies within days of birth begin talking to us, you'll have me, believe me, wrapped around your little finger, Kathleen.
		I just wanted to get some comments from you on that and update everybody on the fact that we've got a cleaner way to get to your website.
		That doesn't mean they're going to get there.
		Because either not too many people can get on at once.
		I made it myself tonight, so I know it's possible.
		I just want to let everybody know that.
		Instead of people sitting out there cursing me, cursing you, because they can't get in, they're just going to have to keep trying.
		That information is available.
		We have a direct route now, folks.
		So, Kathleen, we're going to have you on the program again, I'm sure, soon.
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		Well, thanks, Art.
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		And if you could send me that little letter, that would be wonderful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You really want a copy of that?
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've requested the chap give me a telephone number, and if he does that, I may put him on the air.
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if I put him on the air, maybe I'll give you a call and let you all have a chat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be interesting.
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		Boy, I wonder if the phone lines would hold up for that one, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They don't hold up for much else, do they?
unidentified		Not really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kathleen, thank you.
kathleen keating ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care and good night.
		All right, that's Kathleen Keating, and that information is available.
		Now, why am I not giving it out?
		Because I know in my heart of hearts that some Christian would take that name, and it is an individual alive on earth now, and go dispatch him quickly, saying, no doubt, as he did it, that he heard it on the Art Bell program.
		So I choose not to do that for reasons that I hope you understand.
		I hope you understand.
		We were talking about the shooting at Santana High in California yesterday and whether or not it was evil.
		And one caller in the, I think it was the first hour, wasn't it, called and pointed out that it's never a girl, that the shooter Is never a girl.
		And I agreed.
		I said, you know, you're right.
		Well, maybe we should not have said that because today breaks the following from the Associated Press.
		An eighth-grade girl shot a 13-year-old female classmate during lunch at a Roman Catholic school Wednesday before being subdued by a school administrator, according to officials.
		The victim, also in the eighth grade, was shot in the right shoulder and was listed in stable condition.
		The students at Bishop Newman Junior High School, junior, senior high, were taken to a nearby school where police were interviewing witnesses.
		Details about the shooting not immediately available.
		So they have no idea why she did it.
		But for all of that, and it just ding, ding, ding, it went on like a light bulb above my head.
		This color is right.
		It's never a girl.
		And the very next day after we talk about that, it's a girl.
		Now, you know, again, I'm not saying that this represents a ding, ding, ding by Major Ed Dames, but when you listen to it, you've got to wonder.
		The story says, this is from the Washington Times, by the way.
		Forget the fact that some 1,500 assorted nuts, bolts, and chunks may rain down upon the Earth when Russia's vintage space station, Mir, plummets home again in about 10 days.
		It's the mutant space fungus we should fret about.
		After 15 years of festering away in various air ducts and control panels aboard the old orbiter, some mystery mold is also along for the ride.
		A Yuri Karash said, I cannot overstate this.
		A realistic problem exists.
		This is now at a press conference in Moscow.
		Now, how much are you hearing about this in the American press?
		Not too much, right?
		A former cosmonaut and now a journalist, he became unnerved after reviewing Mir documents at the city's 38-year-old Institute of Medical and Biological Problems, which once designed a life support system for a heavy interplanetary ship, among other things.
		Washington residents can spot Mir in one of its final appearances, passing low in the northeastern skies at about 6.43 p.m. tomorrow for two minutes.
		It'll be 10 degrees above the horizon.
		That's not very far.
		Meanwhile, Russian officials have become wary of assuring the governments of Japan and Australia, and more recently now Germany, that most of the spacecraft will incinerate upon entering Earth's atmosphere sometime between March 17th and 20th.
		So in other words, we've got legit people in Russia saying, don't worry about the nuts and bolts.
		Worry about this horrid fungus that has been growing in it for some time.
		Because guess what?
		It's coming back down with mirror.
		And I thought I would read this for this poor gentleman in Tennessee, Lenoir City, L-E-N-O-I-R City, Tennessee.
		Art, I feel horrible, but I had to do it.
		I told my girlfriend of five years that essentially she wasn't smart enough to enjoy your program.
		Well, sir, this is not off to a good start.
		He goes on, it's mean, I know, and I've tried for months to get her to turn off the cartoon network and listen to your program, but she refused.
		In insulting her, I hope to challenge her.
		Boy, do you have a lot to learn, sir.
		She's much smarter than she gives herself credit for, so I challenged her intelligence in order to expand her interests.
		So she's listening tonight.
		And I know what I have done is wrong.
		I'm sorry.
		But the intellectual stimulation she gains from this compelling program will quickly staunch the wounds.
unidentified		I hope.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the end, she will be a passionate listener, and I'm sure he hopes love her as well.
		And of that, I'm sure.
		And he finishes, I'm sleeping on the couch tonight, Art.
		So please, should you get this message, just tell her I love her, and I'm sorry I insulted her.
		Greg, Lenora City, Tennessee.
		Good luck, Greg.
unidentified		You really have a lot to learn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From Sydney, Australia, a former Australian Army commando, get this folks, plans to jump off the edge of outer space and plummet 25 miles to Earth in the highest skydive ever.
		His name is Rod Miller, 37 years of age.
		He's going to make the 40,000-meter jump by riding in a hot air balloon right to the very edge of space.
		And then he will wear an astronaut suit to protect his body from extreme pressures.
		Unt jump!
		The plan calls for Millner to fall at least 1,100 miles per hour during a seven-minute fall before opening a parachute.
		The fall would make Milner the first human being to ever break the sound barrier unaided.
		It's basically extreme science to see how far we can push it.
		This is going to change the face of a lot of things, including emergency procedures for people exploring space, he was quoted as saying by the AAP.
		Milner claims that scientists have helped him on the project, but it is not known if the human body is capable of enduring such a descent.
		The jump may be a relaxing change for Milner, who teaches explosives and mine warfare to Australian Army recruits.
		So this guy just can't get enough, and he's going to jump virtually from where the atmosphere goes away and the blackness of space begins.
		One has to wonder if this is going from an Associated Press story, which by the way it is right now, to a Darwin nomination notation.
		Anyway, I guess, let's see.
		Project Space Jump will be launched from Alice Springs in March of 2002, so he's yet a year away from it.
		Maybe somebody out there can talk him out of it.
		Who knows?
		And by the way, remember, Friday night, Saturday morning, this Friday night, Saturday morning, I am not going to be here.
		In fact, Ian Punnett will be here with a guest that I know not who just yet.
		I'm going to the Radio and Records Convention, talk radio convention in California.
		Should be very interesting.
		It's the first one I've ever been to, as a matter of fact.
		I'll be there with Matt Drudge, and Matt and I are going to have a bit of a conversation upon the stage for the enjoyment of all those attending.
		Stay right where you are.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 7, 2001.
		The world and the seven seas, everybody's looking for something.
		Some of them want to use you.
		Some of them want to get used by you.
		Some of them want to abuse you.
		Some of them want to be abused Sweet dreams are made of these.
		Sweet dreams are made of these.
		I gave you love, I bought the wheel and made it to the top.
		I gave you all, I have to give I didn't have to stop.
		You blow the balls down.
		I turned me a lie without a reason why you both died.
		I've never been to lie.
		You couldn't touch the time.
		You've blown it off, shine Oh, oh, oh You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
		Tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 7th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Katie, bar the door.
		Here we go.
		Here's what Keith has done.
		Keith Rowland, my webmaster.
		He went to the appropriate place on Kathleen Keating's site and lifted the entire page, the one in which she reveals the Antichrist.
		So, here we go.
		This is something signed by Kathleen Keating.
		And all we're doing is allowing some bandwidth so that we can put it up and you can definitely see it.
		If you go to my website now at www.artbell.com and click on what's new, there are two things that you can see.
		The first, Keating announces the Antichrist.
		You will get it.
		I can assure you, you will get it unless he decides you won't.
		We'll have to see about that.
		You can give it a shot anyway.
		Item two under What's New is the actual written statement of John Glenn as collected by Keith Rowland from what I read last night, which was word for word from the Fraser Show.
		And for all of you writing me email and saying things like, God, don't you know it was just a comedy?
		Yes, yes, yes, yes, I do know it was just a comedy.
		And every time I read it, I prefaced what I was reading by telling you it was just a comedy.
		Right?
		Do you remember that?
		Do any of you remember that I put that preface in there?
		So please, folks, listen to what I say.
		It's very important that you listen precisely to what I say.
		Yes, indeed, it was a comedy program.
		I acknowledge that every time I read it last night.
		I acknowledge it again tonight.
		It's just that we thought it was a little strange that John Glenn would say those words, that they would come from his mouth.
		And you've got to know, if he didn't want to say them, he would not have.
		You can be sure of that.
		Do they mean exactly what they say?
unidentified		Well, it was a comedy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do they perhaps have meaning just a little bit below the comical surface?
		is for you to design Ah, back into the night we go.
		Open lines directly ahead.
		Let's see what awaits, shall we?
		On the wildcard line, you are on the air.
		Good morning.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I'm sorry, I didn't hear you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, go ahead.
unidentified		This is Benjamin Collins from Indianapolis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Benjamin.
unidentified		I got a couple comments for you.
		I agree with your assessment about the school shooters and that they seem to be pure evil.
		And my theory on that is...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't absolutely say they're pure evil or that it's evil incarnate causing these shootings.
		What I do say is that it has to be one of the possibilities, one of the main possibilities that you consider when you start thinking about why would somebody take a gun to school and smile and start shooting their classmates and smile all the while.
		Now, that's got to be one of the possibilities.
unidentified		I wholly agree with you.
unidentified		And my theory on that is that it's kind of timely seen as how you have Kathleen Keating on Monday night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think so, yes.
unidentified		Well, I think it's God pulling back all the stops, and I think he's allowing evil to work its magic for longer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got to wonder why God would do something like that, though.
		I do.
		I mean, God is God, right?
		Why would he allow evil and hurting and all these things to go on?
		I suppose there's an answer in religion to that somewhere.
		Tell me, how old are you?
unidentified		I'm 27.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		27.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're not that old, but even when you were in high school, were they having these mass shootings?
unidentified		No, they were not.
		It's completely a new thing.
		I mean, probably I heard, or I saw on the news the other day, I think it was 60 Minutes last night maybe, that they had one in, I believe in 1979, but that was the first one that, if I remember correctly, that was the first one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember an old song?
		Some group wrote an old song called I Don't Like Mondays.
		And it was about somebody who did a shooting on a Monday.
		That's all I can remember.
		That was quite a while ago, but as far as I know, that was probably the first.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		I don't know what to make of it either, but I don't think you can rule out the possibility of evil, real external evil influencing these things.
		Can't rule it out.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm from Bowmanville.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where?
unidentified		Bowmanville.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bowmanville.
unidentified		Ontario.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ontario.
		Oh, okay.
		Yes, welcome.
unidentified		Well, I'd like to bring you back to your talk about the mirror project there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, the mirror project, yes, with the fungus.
unidentified		Yeah, well, what's the big deal of the fungus?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the big deal, look, how did you ever...
unidentified		Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
		Well, don't you know what happens when the outer space fungus gets to Earth?
		Yeah, but in reality, it burns up as it's coming through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, right.
		Well, that's, of course, what they will tell you.
		But here's a Russian cosmonaut very concerned that it's not going to burn up.
		And as I said, if you've seen one science fiction movie, you know that it's not going to burn up, that a little bit's going to get through, and it's going to start eating people first thing, straight away.
unidentified		That's the next thing that happens.
unidentified		I guess I never thought about it that way, but I just figured they're saying nothing, you're going to have to worry about it, nuts and bolts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And one more thing?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Canadians taste better.
		You take care.
		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I appreciate you taking the call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm calling you from Ellensburg, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ellensburg, oh, yes.
unidentified		Just Kent?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yes, Kent.
		First, I want to say how much I appreciate the educational value of your show.
		And your talent is so amazing for helping me, and I'm sure others, to appreciate the amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the amazing is there.
		It's there every day if you look for it.
		And of course, I do.
		It's my job.
		But the amazing is there.
		It's all around us.
		It's just that how many venues report on it?
		Hardly any.
unidentified		Yes.
		Some difficult questions were asked during your show, Kathleen Keating, and I used that phrase specifically.
		I think one thing that is amazing is human consciousness.
		And I think in common with all humans is an instinct that transcends religious ideas or science.
		It's an instinct of a belief in God based on this amazingness of our own consciousness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Matthew Alper calls it the God part of the brain.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, there's a part of our brain that virtually demands that we worship and believe in the hereafter because to not do so would drive you absolutely crazy, and it very well might, and it's a protective function of the brain.
unidentified		Yes, but I think the human mind is suspicious of accidental perfection.
		Biologically speaking, the mind is so amazing.
		I have simple proof for this instinct of the existence of God, which I can share with you.
		It's two parts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, not to read to me, please.
unidentified		No, no, not going to read to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, just give it to me in a nutshell very quickly.
unidentified		Using the example of Henry Ford, the creator of the Model T. Oh, yes.
unidentified		If you can visualize the idea that we are all Model Ts, and the Model T is the effect, the cause was Henry Ford, but the cause.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I suppose then Dean Kamen is visualizing all of us as a two-wheeled scooter, right?
unidentified		But the Henry Ford cause is greater than the Model T. In other words, the cause itself, Henry was much more than the maker of cars.
		He was brilliant in many ways, created the idea of the assembly line, etc.
		We being the effect, consciousness being the effect, it's a very simple, logical suspicion in the mind.
		The mind learns through four ways, pattern recognition, cause and effect, instinct and intuition.
		And all four of those point us naturally to be suspicious of accidental perfection and to realize this amazing effect that we are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, or put it another way, I think that Arthur C. Clarke was the one who said that anything, any technology sufficiently advanced would appear to us, I'm paraphrasing, as magic or perfection, or however you want to put it.
		That's something we were kind of kicking around a couple of nights ago that's very interesting.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Morning.
unidentified		You've got another better-tasting Canadian on the line.
unidentified		It's Dan calling from Dartmouth and Nova Scotia up in Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Way up there.
unidentified		Way up here, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very sharp, tangy taste.
unidentified		Exactly, yes.
unidentified		I have two quick comments.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have one quick comment for you.
		Now, with respect to Mir, it was Canada, after all, where that Russian nuclear baloney hit the ground and contaminated.
		So, you know, they say lightning doesn't strike twice, but it's a lottery.
		Yes, it would be.
		Yes, it would be.
		Anyway, you called for a reason.
unidentified		Yes, I just discovered your show a few days ago.
		I've been glued to it ever since.
		It's starting to interfere with my work now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It interferes with my sleep patterns.
unidentified		I can see that.
		And unfortunately, we're losing UCJCH is becoming an all-sports channel.
		So what I'm going to do after that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
unidentified		I've been protesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's becoming an all-sports channel.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much sports can any, and I like sports.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm into the NFL, even the XFL.
unidentified		But how much sports can anybody take?
		I guess you'd call that one of those headshakers.
		I can't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Besides that, at this time of night, there's no sports going on.
unidentified		I know.
unidentified		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, call them up and tell him, run sports the rest of the time and run this program in the all-night.
unidentified		I am certainly going to do that.
		I will.
		That song, by the way, that was Boomtown Rats.
		I Don't Like Mondays.
		That was based on a true story, and it was actually a girl.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was about a shooting, and it was a girl, right?
unidentified		It was a girl in that one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My wife came up with that one.
unidentified		Is that right?
		Yeah.
		I had a question for you.
		I've been listening intently about the statement that John Glenn had made in this thing with the glass tunnels on Mars.
		Yes.
		And I wanted to ask you if you'd ever heard of a broadcast called Alternative 3.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		You have heard that?
		Sure.
		I didn't know about that.
		If anyone else had heard of that in a long time, this was years ago.
		I was a kid.
		I saw this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I saw it.
unidentified		And I had no idea if it was at the time a hoax or what.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I looked at it that way.
unidentified		Is that right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I looked at it that way.
unidentified		A lot of it was seemed pretty hokey, but wasn't there an interview with an astronaut in there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that I don't remember.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember all of the paranoid stuff that was in there, though, and to me it was a lot of paranoid stuff.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or maybe I just felt paranoid after I read it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, I've got to run, sir.
unidentified		Okay, then, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for the call.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Aloha, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, and out to Hawaii, all the way from Nova Scotia to Hawaii.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just like that.
unidentified		This is Jason from Hawaii.
		Yes, Jason.
		And I was going to talk about the quote-unquote evil in the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And actually, a friend of mine and myself were talking about this one.
		And she said that she knows somebody that basically every time they listen to a certain kind of music, they kind of turn mean.
		And, you know, so she thinks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I don't think it's music.
		And we've been over that.
		Video games, television music.
		Ah, baloney.
		It doesn't.
		I just.
		Listen, Jason, in your life, how old are you now?
unidentified		I'm 19.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Sometimes, Jason, can't you feel evil?
		I mean, can't you literally feel the urge for evil?
		It doesn't mean you do it, but you feel it, right?
		The urge to do something really evil.
unidentified		And I was going to go to my point.
		My point was that it's the person, not the music, you know?
		And that's how they are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I'm listening.
		It's the person, not the music.
unidentified		I heard that.
unidentified		Yeah, and that was, you know, that's how I feel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, listen, I heartily appreciate your call.
		And call me again.
		Person, not the music.
		All right, East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
		All right.
		International line, you are on the air.
		Good morning.
		Good morning.
		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		Portland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Portland?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you got through on the international line somehow?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Well, I actually thought I called the wildcard line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		That's what I thought.
unidentified		I'm going to have to talk about 527.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, somehow that wildcard line is rolling to the international line.
		We're going to have to talk to phone company about that.
		Anyway, you got on, so go right ahead.
		Thank you.
		Turn your radio off.
unidentified		No problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Number one.
unidentified		Going off right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everybody, remember to turn your radio off or you'll sound silly on the air because you'll be listening to yourself.
		Absolutely.
		All right.
		So what's on your mind?
unidentified		Well, Art Bell, got a question for you.
unidentified		Correlation between Sidonia region and Giza.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of correlation?
unidentified		Well, simply asked Richard Hoagland's theories with the Mana or the Holy Grail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't hear Richard talk about the Holy Grail.
unidentified		No, he didn't.
unidentified		And that's my question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
		So you want him to have a theory about it.
		All right, I'll pass that on.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Is this Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Art.
unidentified		My name is David from Richfield.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, David.
unidentified		Minnesota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Minnesota.
unidentified		All right.
		Okay.
		You were saying something about the excuse that one guy gave that he hated Mondays.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was a song.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't like Mondays.
unidentified		Okay, there was this guy that went into a school, public school, down in Florida back in 1978, and he shot up the school.
unidentified		And they asked him why they did it, or why did he do it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And he said, I hate Mondays.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I think he was playing off the song of the same name.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Hello.
		Going once, going twice, gone.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, Art, how you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Hey, listen, two things.
		One, first up, actually, I'll just talk about the Hoglu thing.
		I found some other pictures of these quote-unquote tubes, the glass tubes, on the photojournal JPLNASA.gov site.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would imagine so.
unidentified		But I was flying back from San Francisco last Friday, and I was flying over Nevada and Arizona, and I saw identical forms of structures as we were flying east, and what it looked like to me was there were runoff gullies.
		You know what I mean?
		Like washout gullies from the flat gullies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		okay, fair enough.
		I thought that too regarding runoff, but not the other part.
		If you look carefully at these photographs, you will see, particularly if you look at the close-ups, you will see an obvious translucent quality to them that's impossible to explain.
		I mean, that's just impossible to explain, unless it's glass or it's some type of almost clear but not quite clear material.
		And that's not something you would expect to see on Mars.
unidentified		Maybe it's some kind of some water or condensation.
unidentified		Now another question though, I went through about I guess 800 of these images and a good portion of them were in color and I was wondering do you know if it's false color or if the It's real color.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They get the color values, and they're very careful to correct them properly so that you get the real color.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it's not.
unidentified		Why don't they take all of them in color, then?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of the early missions had black and white cameras.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Okay, and because now that you've posted the quote-unquote Antichrist's identity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That does not mean that you can say it on the air.
unidentified		All we did was post-posted the opinion of Mr. Keith.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		Thank you.
		East of the Rockies called Whole Free.
		1-800-825-5033.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you just tried to give his name, and I had to bleep that out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why did you do that?
unidentified		I wasn't aware that I wasn't supposed to.
unidentified		I apologize.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, I said I wasn't going to give his name.
		Anyway, this person has been offered to me to interview.
		So I'm considering whether I would interview this person.
		What do you think?
unidentified		Should I?
unidentified		I don't think this person has drawn enough attention to himself from there being on the Art Bell show yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I think that by interviewing him, you would have to be able to get to the point where his spokesperson was on my program.
		Now, of course, they say he's the Messiah, not the Antichrist.
		But of course, that's how the Antichrist advertises he will appear.
		So I don't know.
		I've been offered the interview.
		I'll just have to think it over.
		All right?
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		Thanks, Wild.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, thank you.
		Wildcard line, you're on here.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Vince from Vancouver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Vince.
		We've got a short time here before the top of the hour.
		What's cooking?
unidentified		I was wondering, what do you think of talking pictures being television?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do I think of talking pictures being television?
unidentified		Yes, from your talk the other night about the Antichrist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I have no idea what you mean by that, talking pictures being television.
		Talking pictures, that was a phrase assigned to movies when they first got audio.
		So what are you talking about?
		Oh, you mean pictures on the wall beginning to talk, right?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In our day and time, as TV by talking about Kathleen, if any of my pictures begin to talk or I encounter a newborn baby that begins to talk to me, I'm going to be right in her corner real quick.
		I'm a doubter.
		I'm a skeptic.
		I don't know what I am.
		I'm not exactly a non-believer because there are lots of things I do believe in.
		I guess I'm agnostic, but believe me, if the pictures and babies start talking, I'll be right there.
		Kathleen, I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM, running through the night like a freight train.
unidentified		You'll listen to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 7, 2001.
		My love is up to you anytime today.
		It's all love that you need.
		And I've tried my best to play everything to see.
		I've tried my best to play everything to see.
		Where are those happy days?
		They seem so hard to find.
		I tried to reach for you, but you have lost too much.
		Whatever happened to my love.
		I wish I understood it just the face of lies, it used to face the face of us, it used to face.
		So when you're near me darling, can't you hear me?
		S.O.S.
		The love you gave me, nothing else can save me.
		S.O.S.
		When you're gone, how can I even try to go on?
		When you're gone, go on try, how can I carry on?
		Yeah.
		You seem so far away that you are standing near.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired March 7th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		Most of you, for most of you, I guess it's morning.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
		Coming up in a moment is Brian Alexander, who's a writer for Wired Magazine.
		And it's going to be pretty interesting.
		We're going to talk with him for about an hour, which means that we've got several hours of open lines tonight.
		I've got a couple ideas for him.
		That'll be coming up next hour.
		But this hour, we're going to talk about cloning.
		It's one of the enduring areas of interest for me.
		We are going to clone.
		Make no mistake about it.
		Well, actually, it might even be put a different way.
		We may already have cloned.
unidentified		May well already have cloned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Brian spent quite a while investigating this whole area of cloning, so we'll find out what he knows coming up in a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Brian Alexander, who writes for WIRE.
unidentified		WIRE.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here is Brian Alexander.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Brian, welcome to the program.
unidentified		Great to be here, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You wrote quite an article, A long article for Wired magazine on the subject of cloning, didn't you?
unidentified		That's right.
		That's right.
		It came out in the February issue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you write for Wired exclusively, or tell us a little bit about yourself?
unidentified		Well, I write about biotechnology for Wired.
unidentified		I've also written for the New York Times Sunday Magazine, Esquire, a variety of other magazines, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
		All right.
		How long did you work on the article on cloning?
unidentified		Well, from start to finish, from the time it was assigned until it came out, it was about six months.
unidentified		And I spent about four of those months fairly heavy-duty reporting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a lot of research.
		No question about it.
		So then, tell us everything you know about cloning.
		I don't know how else to ask.
		I'm fascinated by the whole concept of cloning.
		I interviewed a representative of the Israeli religion, and they claim that they're about to clone.
		Some are claiming they've actually already got a woman pregnant.
		So I don't know where they sit right now since the interview I did.
		That was, oh, I don't know, two or three weeks ago.
		and i'm sure you ran into them as you did your research but by the way in the whole cloning world right now what's good Well, it's possible that we've cloned by accident.
		By accident?
unidentified		By accident.
		Let me just take a second and explain that.
		There's an IVF procedure that's known as ICSI, that's ICSI, and it stands for intra-cytoplasmic sperm injection.
		And what ICSI does is helps men who would otherwise be infertile, helps them have babies, by directly injecting sperm into the egg rather than relying on the sperm to get in there on their own.
		Now, when they do ICSI, they have a sort of a plate full of sperm.
		But there's also a cell type that hangs around sperm, and in women it hangs around eggs.
		The cell type is called a cumulus cell.
		It's a little round cell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounds like a cloud.
unidentified		Right, yeah, exactly.
		And it looks a little bit like a cloud when you look at it in a petri dish.
		Well, these cumulus cells are almost indistinguishable from sperm cells that have had their tails removed, which is what they do in ICSI.
		So it's very easy for a technician to accidentally pick up a cumulus cell and inject that into an egg.
		And because the egg treats everything that goes into it like a sperm, you'd end up with a clone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, you have a clone.
		That's right.
		I've got it.
		That's right.
		But we wouldn't know that, would we?
		Or would we?
		In other words, once the child is born, would we be aware?
		No, we wouldn't necessarily know.
		No, no.
unidentified		The child would happen to look a lot like dad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or even exactly like dad, I guess.
unidentified		Well, you know, yeah, but it would be 20, 30 years younger than dad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But in fact, it would be an exact replica.
unidentified		Well, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		Now, one of the things that people forget or don't realize about cloning is that you have to use an egg.
unidentified		And the egg has its own DNA called mitochondrial DNA, which makes a contribution to the makeup of our own DNA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then they really don't have a way to make an exact replica then?
unidentified		In fact, there's no such thing as making a copy of a person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then what the heck are they talking about?
		I always understood it to be a precise replica, that the DNA would be exactly the same.
		You say no.
unidentified		That's right.
		about 1%, 1.5% of the DNA would be mitochondrial DNA.
		And all you need is one slight difference and suddenly you've got You're right.
		Yeah, it's a common myth.
		It's something a lot of people think, and they have reason to, because after DALI was created, all the images that we saw, all the images we were exposed to, had repeated copies of Adolf Hitler and Michael Jordan and all the rest.
		And so we didn't hear anything else other than that you could make copies of people.
		In fact, you can't make a copy of a person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You get close, but that's all.
unidentified		That's right.
		You would get a baby who shared an awful lot of traits with mom or dad.
		They would look a lot alike as they grew older, but still a little different because time itself etches itself on our faces, our bodies, in different ways.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you know it.
unidentified		Yeah, no kidding.
		So you would have definitely a different person.
		But there's no doubt that a clone would share appearances and certain traits.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but the people who are laying down the money, and they are doing that now, aren't they?
unidentified		That's right, they are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To have clones of themselves for whatever their reason, they think they're getting an exact duplicate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And are they being sold that bill of goods, or are they being told the truth?
unidentified		In some cases, they are being sold that bill of goods.
		In other cases, people are saying, look, you're not going to get an exact duplicate.
		And they say, you know, we don't care.
		This is close enough for us.
		We understand this will be a unique individual, but at least the blueprint of the person that we loved, that died tragically, for example, in many cases, the blueprint will be back with us.
		And we treasure those traits.
		That's some of what people are thinking.
		I did interview a couple of people who thought they were going to get their dead child back, literally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And were very, they were resistant to the idea that that wouldn't happen for them.
		Now, in the case of infertile couples who just want to have a baby, they don't care if they have an exact duplicate.
		They just want to have a genetically related child.
		And for some infertile couples, cloning is the only way to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		There are, of course, many ethical and moral questions attendant to the whole concept of cloning.
		And I've got an article here by Rick Weiss, the Washington Post Service.
		I wonder if you've seen that.
unidentified		It was in today's paper.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there you are.
		See, I get them quick.
		So he says, among other things, that almost all of the first 100 clones will probably abort spontaneously because of genetic Or physical abnormalities.
		Now, assuming that some percentage of those don't abort, you're going to get some monsters.
unidentified		Well, that's a guess.
		And that's a good guess.
		It's based on his reporting.
		And Rick Weiss is one of the people who follows cloning very carefully.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if it's a good guess, I mean, that really is a moral ethical dilemma.
unidentified		Well, yeah, the safety issue of cloning is really the primary, I should say, the most cogent argument against cloning, as far as I can tell.
unidentified		The fact is, this is risky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, he says, let me just read this and then I'll let you go on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Other leading animal cloners know, and we're talking about animals now, that behind the stunning stories of cloning successes in cows, sheep, goats, pigs, and mice, 95 to 97% of efforts still end in his word disaster.
unidentified		Well, that's right.
		I wouldn't necessarily use the word disaster.
		Let me explain a little bit about failure rates and so on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		Now, let's say that you start with 100 eggs and you perform the cloning procedure on all 100.
		Scientists and people who clone animals have a reasonable expectation of getting five live births out of that 100.
		So you get a five, that's what's called a 5% efficiency rate or a 5% success rate.
		Now, most of those 100 eggs either won't divide or will fail soon after dividing a couple of times.
		So they will never be implanted.
		They implant maybe 10%, maybe 10 out of 100 get implanted.
		And about five of those scientists would expect to be born alive.
		So when you sort of narrow down what the risks are and what the success rates are, you have to kind of be careful where you start.
		You know, you could say that if you implant 10 and you get 5, you have a 50% success rate.
		Or you could say if you start with 100 eggs and you get 5, you've got a 5% success rate.
		So you've got to be a little bit careful about that.
		Now, as far as disasters are concerned, cows especially seem to have a problem with what's called the large cow syndrome or large calf syndrome.
		There's a problem of communication, at least the theory is, there's a problem of communication between the embryo and then the developing fetus and the mother.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're born too big.
unidentified		Sometimes they're born too big, and placentas seem to develop abnormally.
		And this may be a result of what's called this imprinting issue.
		The cells which are used in cloning are already imprinted and designated on where they're supposed to go.
		And when you try to reverse them back to an embryonic state, they may retain some of this imprinting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It kind of sounds almost like Dr. Frankenstein.
		I realize it's not, but they're going to end up with some failures that live.
		And what do we as a society do about that?
		I know in America, I guess, there really are no laws against cloning.
		There are laws in Great Britain, I believe, but not here.
		So we're going to plow ahead, and we're going to inevitably end up with some disfigured, terrible things.
		Should we be going ahead with this?
unidentified		Well, should we go ahead with it right now?
		I would say no, but that isn't stopping people.
		It is going forward, I believe.
		Now, whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I think it's dangerous, and I think it's too dangerous to be doing it now for all the reasons that we've just talked about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I tried desperately to get one of the first people who became vocal about this on the program, Dr. Seed.
		He never would come on.
		He came close, but he never would come on.
		Have you spoken with Dr. Seed?
		Did you have any luck?
unidentified		I have spoken with Dr. Seed, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and you're...
unidentified		He made a stab at this a couple years ago and made a lot of headlines, and then apparently had some possible financing, and that fell through.
		As far as I know now, Dr. Seed's not working on cloning at all.
		He's actually turned his attention towards clinics for human rejuvenation, which he hopes to start a chain of clinics to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rejuvenation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, making people younger.
unidentified		Making them younger, making them live longer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, he lives right out there on the edge, doesn't he?
unidentified		Yeah, he does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who do you think will be the first to publicly clone?
unidentified		To publicly clone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in other words, who's the closest right now, do you suppose?
unidentified		Well, you know, if the realians are for real, I think they would be the first ones if they really do have somebody pregnant.
		Now, there has been an announcement by a doctor in Kentucky who's working with a relatively famous doctor in Italy.
		They're doctors Zavos and Dr. Antonori.
		They came out in mid to late January and said that they were going to start trying to clone people.
		They were going to start the experiments and then proceed ahead.
		They've been overwhelmed with people who want to have babies.
		These are infertile couples.
		And they want to have them through cloning so they can be genetically related.
		Now, they've been public about it.
		They've been widely condemned by IVF doctors around the world because IVF doctors certainly don't want that kind of attention.
		Whether or not they'll actually succeed and go forward in the end, I don't know.
		They say that they're going to.
		So I guess that would make them the first sort of mainstream, if you want to call them that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How big a business is it?
		I noticed on the Raelians website, they offer to buy eggs, and they offer to buy all kinds of things to do their cloning with.
		They're offering, I think, $5,000 for eggs.
		I can't remember.
unidentified		Well, yeah, that's actually a going rate for egg donation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		$5,000 per egg or per...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		And you get, you know, five to ten eggs out of one cycle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my gosh.
		Do you have anything to say about that?
		I mean, is cloning going to be a really big business?
		Apparently it is.
unidentified		Well, no.
unidentified		Cloning is always going to be a very small endeavor by a very small minority of people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's going to be a lot of money for somebody, though.
unidentified		Well, I think it'll become an IVF procedure.
		I mean, just like we have IVF procedures now, it'll be one of those, and it'll cost whatever IVF costs after a while.
		Now, at first, it's going to be expensive because the first people to do it are going to be roundly condemned.
		But as the safety level gets a little bit more reasonable, I think cloning is going to be an option for infertile couples.
		And they will choose that as the last resort.
		That won't be their first option.
		It'll only be infertile couples doing it as a last resort.
		Perhaps some gay, lesbian couples, maybe the odd egomaniac.
		But generally speaking, people are going to want to reproduce the old-fashioned way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would think so.
		Now, the Raelians actually went a step further, and they suggested that, yes, they're going to clone, and that eventually their hope, get this, their hope is that you'll be able to take the contents of a person's brain and download it,
		essentially download it, kind of like wiping a disk drive clean and then downloading the person into the clone so that you virtually could live forever.
		Have you heard this?
unidentified		Yep, that's the idea.
		I sat down with Rael up in Quebec, and we talked about this very thing.
		You know, the idea is that he's basing this on the book of Genesis, where the patriarch lived to be 700 or 800 years.
		And so what he's saying is that every seven or eight hundred years, we will sort of check ourselves into the cloning center, and we'll have a new body made that will pop out about 17 years old, a body of 17 years old, and then we'll download ourselves into this new body and therefore continue on living forever.
		You know, he's not the first guy to talk about this concept.
		There has been this concept floating around called the soul chip, which is sort of the hard drive for our personalities and our souls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The soul chip?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a new one on me.
unidentified		Yeah, well, it's been a science fiction notion, but it's also been sort of a theoretical notion.
		Would it ever be possible to digitize everything that we are as people, our spirituality, our consciousness, our personalities, and so on?
		It's obviously not possible now, and it could be thousands of years before it ever would be possible.
		But people have toyed around with the concept before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if we're toying around with these ideas here in public, I mean, after all, you've interviewed these people who are all gangbusters to go and clone.
		If that's what's happening in public, then kind of like I live near Area 51 here.
		And you have to wonder, with what we've got flying in the sky now, I don't know if you've ever seen a B2, they're pretty exotic.
		Imagine what they've got up at the secret test site.
		So if we imagine all of this publicly, that you and I are openly talking about right now, what might be going on in secret labs behind closed doors?
unidentified		Well, one of the things I say in the wired story is that this could very easily have already been done in any of 300 in vitro fertilization clinics around the world.
		I quote scientists saying that you need a good molecular biologist or a good cell biologist and an IVF doctor, and you could do it in a small closet.
		And in fact, you could do it and nobody would really even know about it because it looks so much like other IVF procedures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So somebody with enough ego and enough money might have commissioned a lab which might have already indeed done this.
unidentified		And people try to do that all the time.
unidentified		I interviewed IVF doctors who say they are approached weekly, sometimes daily, by people hoping for cloning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People with money, no doubt.
unidentified		Well, sure, but mainly they're infertile couples or people who have lost a child.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold on.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		You could clone.
		You may even clone now.
		You could do it.
		But it don't come easy.
unidentified		You're listening to Arc Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 7, 2001.
		You know it don't come easy.
		But you say it's you, you want to see the blues.
		And you know it don't come easy.
		You don't have to shout all these little vows.
		You can even make them easy.
		Forget about the past.
		And all your sorrows...
		Ah!
		I see dreams of me to think to myself.
		What a wonderful world I see skies of blue And clouds of white The bright blessed day The dark sacred night And I think to myself What a
		wonderful world The colors of the rainbow So pretty in the sky Are also on the faces Of people going by I see friends shaking hands Said I'll be there
		They'll be saying I'll be there I'll be there You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 7th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At least that's the way it used to be.
		We used to watch them grow, right?
		What a wonderful world.
		Welcome to the world of cloning.
		My guest is Brian Alexander, who writes for many magazines, actually, but wrote an extensive article on cloning for Wired.
		He'll be right back.
		All right, more now on cloning.
		For the remainder of this half hour, Brian Alexander is here with us.
		He wrote the article for Wired magazine.
		If you have questions for him, we will open the lines in this half hour and ask some questions.
		Brian, you're back on the air again.
		What was the most surprising thing to you when you took this job and then when you finally finished this job up and it went to press?
		What surprised you the most about the whole cloning thing?
unidentified		How many people, average everyday folks, were very interested in pursuing cloning?
		That's really what surprised me.
		I expected to find a few oddball characters and so on, but a lot of the people I talked to are your next-door neighbors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you interview some of them, and what did they say?
unidentified		I interviewed as many people as I could find, and they told me stories about losing children to accidents.
		They told me stories about being married, being infertile, wanting to have children, having gone through three or four rounds of IVF hope, and then having that dashed.
		They would like to try to use cloning then to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And of that number of people, Brian, how many of them were under the misconception that cloning would produce an exact duplicate?
unidentified		There were a couple of people who had lost children, who were hoping to literally recreate the children.
unidentified		Other people who had lost loved ones knew that they would not get an exact duplicate, that they would get a unique individual, but were hoping to just sort of recapture some of the traits of the past person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there anybody in the cloning world who believes that you're going to be able to clone a human being and have it appear as something other than a newborn?
unidentified		No.
		Except, you know, the Realians think that sometime in the future that will happen.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's nobody on the edge of that now.
unidentified		No, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I would like to let the audience ask a few questions as well.
		If you don't mind, first time caller line, where are you, please?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		I'm here in Flagstaff, Arizona.
		My name is John.
		Okay, John.
		Can you take my call?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		Very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		Mr. Alexander, I just had a question for you as far as, I mean, does cloning go as far as to bring back to life a deceased family member or something you can bring back to a certain age?
unidentified		Or are there certain elements that enter into bringing them to 10 years old or 20 years old or 30 years old?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you what, Color.
		He already answered that one.
		They're going to start off as an infant, but he did ask an interesting question.
		If somebody is deceased, Brian, and their cellular material has been cryogenically saved, would you be able to clone that way?
unidentified		The short answer is yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
unidentified		Yeah, it has to be properly preserved, but if it's preserved under the right circumstances, yes, you could use that cellular material.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that if they had saved cellular material from Hitler, everybody always uses Hitler.
		Right.
		They could, in fact, create another within one, one and a half percent, Hitler.
unidentified		Yeah, but you've got to remember that the new baby Hitler may grow up and want to be a pacifist artist.
unidentified		I mean, you never know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What a crushing disappointment that would be.
unidentified		People would be very disappointed.
		People always use Michael Jordan.
		I've been asked the question about Michael Jordan in the past.
		There's a good chance that a clone of Michael Jordan wouldn't especially like basketball or even be very good at it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the clone of Michael Jordan would be a real big tall guy.
unidentified		It would look a lot like Michael Jordan, yeah, certainly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I suppose that you could go for 50 Michael Jordans and cultivate the one that seems to go for basketball.
unidentified		Well, if you could manage to get Michael Jordan to give up themselves, you could do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They say eventually scrapings from under the fingernail would do it, or skin scrapings, or maybe a lock of hair or whatever.
unidentified		Well, hair probably won't do it.
		You need at least the hair root.
		Actually, all cells are not created equal when it comes to cloning.
		There are two preferred cell types.
		One of these cumulus cells that I spoke about earlier.
		Another one is fibroblast cells, which is sort of a general name for skin cells and skin-related cells.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So skin would do it, or a root of the hair?
unidentified		Yeah, the root of the hair would be tough, but skin could do it if you had the right skin and you preserved it in the right way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Brian Alexander.
		Cheerio.
		Hello?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Question for Brian.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, by the way?
unidentified		Portland, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Fantastic.
unidentified		A correlation between the search for immortality with mankind and the want to re-duplicate themselves and basically how that fits in with cloning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well the answer is simple.
		Right, Brian?
		It doesn't fit in.
		This is not, at least yet, immortality.
unidentified		Well, right, but he's on to something here because there is a new branch of biotechnology called rejuvenative Medicine, and that involves the cloning of organs.
		In other words, they'll use one of my cells and they'll use the same procedure they would use to make a clone of a person, and they would eventually try to direct those cells to make new liver tissue for a while or a new heart or a new heart and so on.
		There's some speculation.
		I wrote another story for Wired that came out about a year ago called Don't Die, Stay Pretty.
		And part of that story revolved around this concept of being able to essentially check yourself in to have replacement organs made and extend lifespan that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that what Dr. Seed is working on?
unidentified		Well, he didn't go into detail.
		I would imagine that would be Yeah, it's a buzz term that's been catching on lately.
		I don't know if that's what he's been working on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Brian Alexander.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, hi.
		Hi.
		All right.
		Just wanted to tell you, happy to hear you back again.
		Oh, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am in the tiny town of Prairie View, Kansas.
		All right.
		My question kind of revolved around your last suggestion on cloning organs.
		Contrary to what Dr. Day thinks, I think organ transplantation is about the best thing we've got at the moment.
		And, you know, it's definitely not a disaster.
		I being a lucky recipient of one.
		And I'm curious as to who is working on transplanting cloned organs and who is using the lattice work to create structure for organs to grow on.
		The last I heard, it was coming along well with bladders and ears and things with cartilage.
		And I was wondering how it was going with kidneys.
		Kidneys are slightly more complex organ than, say, a liver is.
		Right now, they have made livers for mice already.
		They've also made pancreatic eyelet cells in an attempt to cure diabetes.
		And they have used this architecture that I think you're referring to, this sort of lattice work.
		This is what gets involved in an area called stem cells.
		And if just take a second, the earliest cells in an embryo are what are called toady potent stem cells.
		They become all the different cell types in the body.
		So the idea is that if you could get a todipotent stem cell, direct it to become, say, a liver cell or a heart cell, you could make a new organ that would be perfectly compatible to the person who needs it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that may be directly ahead?
unidentified		People are working on that now in institutes all across the world.
		So you couldn't really take a sample cell off of an existing kidney, say, that is already in someone's body, and create a good copy of that from that.
		You would have to use stem cells to do that.
		You need to create stem cells and then try to direct those stem cells to create the cell type you need.
		They've already done this procedure to create nerve cells in mice and heart cells in mice.
		And so work is progressing in this area.
		We're about to have a big national debate in this country about the future of stem cell research.
		And you're going to be hearing a lot more about it in the next few months.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think, Brian, the Bush administration is going to put the clamps on this?
		What's going on with our government?
		We have not passed laws against it.
		Will we?
unidentified		Well, you know, that's the $60 million question at the moment, Hart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At least that much.
unidentified		Yeah, no kidding.
		Tommy Thompson, the new Secretary of Health and Human Services, was testifying just the other day before Congress and saying that he was troubled by the ban on federal money being used for stem cell research.
		The Bush administration has sort of hinted that it's opposed to it.
		So now you've got these conflicting signals and nobody's really sure what's coming down the bike.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we're all going to have to wait and see, including all those except the secret labs that may well be doing it already.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Brian Alexander.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		Hi, Brian.
		This is Sharon up in Southern Idaho.
		I thought that there was a problem with the age of the DNA, that they discovered this with Dolly, so that if you were trying to clone someone who was an older person or someone who had passed away or whatever, that you would have trouble with the DNA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, she's right.
		I remember that.
		What's the deal, Brian?
unidentified		Well, there was cellular testing done on Dolly, and her cells appeared that they measured what's called the telomere.
		It's an area of a chromosome at the end.
		And they appeared to be accelerated in their aging, meaning they sort of picked up where the other animal from which Dolly was cloned left off.
		That turns out to not be a problem.
		Dolly has lived a perfectly normal life.
		She's about six and a half years old now, which is actually longer than the basic sheep lives on a farm because they go to slaughterhouses, but does not seem to be aging any faster.
		It's also turned out that, for example, cows seem to be actually younger.
		And mice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		yep and the cloned mice have lived up to thirty percent longer than the normal mouth life span and i think what i heard you talk about work some people pronounce it telomeres All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These were supposedly virtually kind of like a fuse on a firecracker.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Only instead of the firecracker going off, when you run out of length of these telomeres, you die.
unidentified		Well, that's the idea.
		what happens is felt i felt have a certain number of division they can go through and right with every division you sort of uh...
		Yeah, roughly speaking, that's about right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but that somehow does not now, you're saying, get duplicated in a clone.
unidentified		doesn't appear to be making Dolly die any faster.
unidentified		Her cells seem to...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If I were to seat you in front of a congressional committee trying to decide whether there should be legislation on cloning, what would you tell me?
unidentified		I'd say, well, should we be able to clone people?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How should we proceed?
		In other words, should this be carefully controlled by the government experimentally?
		Should it be as it is now, where virtually anybody can do anything they want, or something in between?
unidentified		I think it ought to be about the way it is now, because currently the FDA has a ruling that says that if you want to try to clone a human being, you have to file what's called an investigational new drug application.
		Now, that is of dubious legal standing, and if anybody were to challenge it, it may very well fall.
		But do we really want the government to be involved directly in the practice of medicine?
		Currently, the government does not regulate, to a large degree anyway, the practice of medicine.
		You're free to go to your doctor, and he's free to try things on you if you agree to it and you have informed consent and so on.
		If you regard cloning as a potential IVF procedure, for example, for infertile couples, suddenly the government is giving approval to that or not approval to that.
		That is what they do in Great Britain.
		There is an authority, a board, that decides what kind of IVF procedures are legal and what kind aren't.
		And I'm sure that in the U.S., that's the kind of thing that we want to have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even though you see troubled times ahead in cloning, you still don't want to close it up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't want the government clamping down on it.
unidentified		There's a great deal of biomedical research that relies on the technology of cloning.
		Stem cells and the creation of organs is a very good example.
		Curing of Parkinson's disease and so on.
		It all uses the same cloning technology.
		It just doesn't make babies that if you start to muck around in that with legislation, sometimes you can end up banning the very thing you want to promote.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the other hand, if Dr. X in Laboratory Z produces a human clone that is a kind of a Frankenstein monster but unfortunately lives, what kind of situation is that doctor in?
unidentified		Well, you've just hit the nail on the head with what people who work in vitro fertilization, people who work with stem cells, this is what they're terrified of.
		The last thing they need with people's fears about biotechnology is to have some freakish baby show up on TV somewhere.
		And suddenly they have a big outcry to ban all sorts of things.
		That's why they're so very offended by the people who have gone public and said that they want to clone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that is the biggest nightmare.
unidentified		That's the biggest nightmare.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it's a fairly probable nightmare as well.
unidentified		Well, I would consider it a possible nightmare.
unidentified		I would not necessarily consider it a probable nightmare.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We might have time for one more.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Brian Alexander.
		Hi.
unidentified		First time callers, area code 775-727-1222.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Earl, hold on.
		I'm going to have to take that out.
		We don't use all of your name.
unidentified		Oh, well, I'll use it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just your first name, Meryl.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, by the way?
unidentified		Right now, I'm currently in Kansas.
		I'm out of Missouri myself.
		All right.
		I got two questions.
		One, I just want to refer to in 1990, a news report about 9 o'clock in the morning due to a man trying to transport an apple through time.
		We can talk about that later.
		But I wanted to find out.
		Now, you had an article that you had read.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sir, we're talking about cloning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So do you have a question about cloning?
unidentified		Yes.
		The resident pup, I should say, in Area 51.
		You had a news article or a letter that you'd wrote that one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All about cloning.
unidentified		Yes, yes, yes.
unidentified		And that the character or the being was transferred through cloning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, all right.
		Actually, he's right.
		I read a letter that indicated that at the infamous Area 51 that's fairly near me, there had been, you know, we were talking about our government a moment ago.
		It's almost hard to believe that our own government could resist the temptation to experiment in this area for all kinds of reasons, Brian.
		One of them would be, of course, the perfect soldier, somebody with very strong physical traits, somebody psychologically predisposed to being kind of violent.
		You know, somebody who would go out there and kill and break things.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So is it possible, in your estimation, that our own government could have been experimenting in this area?
unidentified		Well, the government is experimenting, for example, in the use of nuclear transfer technology, cloning technology.
		But if you're asking me if I think the government could be trying to create the perfect soldier through cloning, I'd say no.
		For one thing, they're going to get a baby.
		And then they've got to take care of that baby until the baby gets old enough to become a soldier.
		So suddenly you're going to have a squadron of babies that you've got to deal with.
		Secondly, you've got to totally brainwash.
		I mean, people do have free will, and a clone would have free will just like anybody else would.
		There's no such thing as drones of, you know, a core of drones or slave clones or anything like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, but we are our DNA plus our environment, right?
		That's what constitutes us.
		So if the government were to clone and get all the right aspects physically and trends psychologically, then providing the right environment might provide the kind of soldier that Uncle Sam wants.
unidentified		Well, sure, but Marine Boot Camp does a pretty good job of that right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I remember first two days I cried down in San Antonio.
unidentified		I said, Mama, Mama, why did I do this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Liz and Brian, I want to thank you for being here tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sorry it was such a short stay, but you've really been very informative, busting up some of what was thought to be fact about cloning, and I thank you.
unidentified		Thank you, Ark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, my friend.
unidentified		Bye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Guess what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're going to open lines, folks.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 7, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from March
		7, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from March 7, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from March 7, 2001.
		You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in Time.
		Tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 7th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you ready?
		We're going to do it.
		We're going to open lines, everybody, and that means that you can talk about anything you want.
		But I'm going to tell you right up front, what I'm looking for is the weird.
unidentified		I'm looking for those who claim to be the Antichrist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dan, you ought to see my email right now.
unidentified		Art!
unidentified		You've got to interview him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It'll be the coup of the century.
		Art, don't you dare interview him.
		He'll take your soul.
		He'll suck your soul away from you.
		I'm getting lots of email like that.
		And by the way, Kathleen Keating's webpage is, part of it's up on ours right now, so you can check it out and see what Kathleen Keating said about the Antichrist.
		on my website right now under What's New.
unidentified		What's New.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, prepare thyself for Here Comes Open Lines, and I can't guarantee what's going to happen.
		I never can.
		But I am looking for those who claim to be the Antichrist.
		I am looking for time travelers.
		I am looking for the truly bizarre.
		We'll see what we get.
		You've got the numbers.
		We'll get underway in a moment.
		Yesterday, a lady called, and I, boy, did I agree with her.
		All of these school shootings have been boys, not girls.
		Well, not even 24 hours later, the Associated Press reports an eighth-grade girl shot a 13-year-old female classmate during lunch at a Roman Catholic school Wednesday before being subdued by the school administrator.
		She's alive, and I guess she's okay, but she's been shot, and by a female, by a girl at that point.
		And then the one other thing that I wanted to get out to you tonight, because I thought it was quite striking, and I note the mainstream press doesn't seem to be exactly jumping on this, is the following.
		Forget the fact that some 1,500 assorted nuts, bolts, and chunks may rain down upon the Earth when Russia's vintage space station Mir plummets home again in about 10 days.
		It's the mutant space fungus that we should first fret about.
		After 15 years of festering away in various air ducts, control panels aboard the old orbiter, some mystery mold is also along for the ride.
		Yuri Karush said yesterday at a press conference in Moscow, quote, I cannot overstate this.
		A realistic problem exists, end quote.
		A former cosmonaut, now journalist, former cosmonaut, mind you, he became unnerved after reviewing Mir documents at the city's 38-year-old Institute of Medical and Biological Problems, which once designed a life support system for heavy interplanetary ships.
		In other words, this is no lightweight.
		This is a former cosmonaut who ought to know what he's talking about, saying, forget about the hardware.
		Worry about what's growing on Mir because it's coming down with Mir.
		All right.
		Let's see what awaits out there in the vast unknown.
		East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		On the air?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off.
unidentified		I was just getting ready to do that.
unidentified		Actually, I'm turning on the old volume button here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll wait until you do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got it.
unidentified		I got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it's still there, dear.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn it off all the way off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you have to, what you do now.
unidentified		There we go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
		That's all right.
		Where are you?
unidentified		I am in Columbus.
unidentified		My name is Christy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Columbus.
unidentified		Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are several around the country.
unidentified		Yes, I understand you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, what's on your mind?
unidentified		Actually, I'm calling because I'm looking for someone to help me.
		When I was younger, someone told me that I was going to be involved in a cataclysmic event.
		And that was someone who wasn't my mother who also told me that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old were you when you were told this?
unidentified		The first time it was told to me was when I was 15.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a hell of a thing to tell a 15-year-old.
unidentified		Well, it was kind of an unusual situation, and later it was elaborated on it by my mom slightly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean your mom knew about this, too?
unidentified		Yeah.
		She never knew the person who told me.
		She's gone now, so I can't have her help me explain to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you say cataclysmic events, what kind of magnitude are we talking about?
unidentified		We're talking about a world change, I do believe.
		It said that I was to be fighting in this.
		This personhood.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fighting.
unidentified		Fighting in this.
unidentified		I'm assuming for the greater good because he was a good person, and I try to be a good person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you know you're not fighting for the other side?
unidentified		The other side.
unidentified		Now, see, there's the question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it is, after all, not a great opening of minds in the world and hearts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said cataclysmic event.
unidentified		Yeah, it was going to be a great war.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, now, wars and cataclysmic events are not generally thought to be the work of, you know, him, but rather the work of him.
unidentified		of him.
		No, not to be that I was going to...
		Do you understand what I'm saying?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, on the one hand, you said it's a war and it's worldwide.
unidentified		But not...
		He was a spiritual guy.
		He knew a lot of things that...
		She's a little bit psychic.
		Fruity people in my family.
		They're like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then you're actually a trigger for all this sort of thing?
unidentified		No, I'm not saying that I'm a trigger.
		I'm not even claiming any kind of divinity here.
		I'm just saying that I'm looking for someone to help me understand what he was talking about.
		Do you understand what I'm saying?
		It's hard to explain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't, because, of course, nobody but he who told you and perhaps your mom who's now gone, you say, would be able to tell us what it's all about.
unidentified		Right, right.
		Well, okay, little itty-bitty bit of background.
		Quick pro query.
		Very quick, yes.
		Yes.
		I'm 25 now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		And I should be dead.
unidentified		Several times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Usually people live longer than that.
unidentified		Several times I should have been dead.
		I've been involved, or at least in presence of several violent events around me and have come out unscathed.
		I survived hitching across the United States twice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		During my mid-teens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You hitchhiked across the U.S. twice?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are lucky to be alive.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		And my father was an evil demonic man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was?
unidentified		Who just...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, have you gone into the bathroom, pulled your hair aside, and looked for the, you know, the sixes?
unidentified		No, I don't feel...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it doesn't matter where your beliefs are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said now you're telling your father was a truly evil man.
unidentified		Oh, he was horrible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Horrible.
		All right.
		well uh...
		you know the apple doesn't fall that far from the tree i do you think that i'm Well, I'm telling you.
		All right, I'll tell you what.
		Here's what I want you to do for me.
unidentified		Okay, please.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want you to go to the bathroom, and I want you to pull your hair apart and look for any sixes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if you see so much as one six, I want to return call immediately.
unidentified		I don't think I'll see any sixes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how do you know?
unidentified		I've got a set of red wings on my back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You haven't looked yet.
		You look, and you let me know, dear.
		Thank you.
		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, this is Judge South of Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Judge.
unidentified		How are you, Art?
unidentified		You know, you have kind of a fascination with wanting to get the evil people on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have a propensity for getting them on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you hear the last call?
unidentified		right uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		but you Where are they?
unidentified		Well, this is the guy with the halo on his head.
unidentified		Remember, a long time ago?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember you, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said you actually have a halo that people can see.
unidentified		Yeah, it's been going on.
unidentified		It's been over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now I want to know where the photograph is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if you can see it, then you can take a picture of it, right?
unidentified		All right, well, I'll try to get one to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You understand that some of us doubt these things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, a halo is a really big claim.
unidentified		Well, I get free copies a lot.
unidentified		That's one of the perks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure you do.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		they'd probably take you away from gas pumps and stuff.
unidentified		Yeah, well, it's...
		I'm sort of like the opposite of the Antichrist.
		You know, and Kathleen put out a lot of stuff the other night that...
		Yeah, she's a good.
		I agree with her in a lot of things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wouldn't you like to hear a debate between Kathleen and the Antichrist?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would that be a show or what?
unidentified		Yeah, well, since we already know who he is, or most of us think we do from her, we don't need to have any of these wannabes calling in, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can't know for sure.
		Well, no, because if you read what Kathleen had there, it's obvious there's more than one Antichrist.
		I mean, she says so herself.
		This was before I ever said anything.
		There are many wannabes.
		You call them wannabes.
unidentified		You know how we talk about angels that appearing as angels of light?
unidentified		You know, where they're actually evil, but they look like they're good?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay, well, the mainstream Christian world would certainly say that I was evil when they see me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
unidentified		Because I come in appearance as an angel of light, actually physically an evil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll ask you the same thing I did the last young lady.
		How do you know that you are not appearing good, but really are not?
		How do you know that your role in life, such as it is on this planet, has unfolded all the way?
		There may be a surprise or two ahead for you.
unidentified		Well, it's 50-50.
unidentified		Okay, I mean, that could be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, there you are.
unidentified		You know, it could be you.
		I'll give you that, but I don't believe that I am.
		I think there's plenty of evil people out there going to be calling as soon as I get off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure Hitler thought he was a great guy.
unidentified		Well, what I'm trying to tell you is, and all the nice listeners and everything, is that we really don't have to worry that much about all the stuff that's coming down because I'm here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, we'll all rest at night for knowing that, sir.
		Especially in view of your 50-50 odds regarding the eventual outcome of you, good or evil.
		First time caller align, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm all right.
unidentified		This is Brother Dennis from Wisconsin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Brother Dennis.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I got a couple things for you that'll make some of these people seem like a bunch of pikers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Okay.
		Well, first of all, if the Bible is untrue, then any idea that comes along is as good as the next idea.
		But if the Bible is true, there are a lot of people in trouble, especially Christians.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And a lot of my callers.
unidentified		A lot of your callers.
unidentified		For instance, most Christians in this country believe that they will be raptured out before the tribulation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think that's mostly the born-again group, isn't it?
unidentified		Mostly, but there's a lot of those in this country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, there are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sucked up like a vacuum cleaner.
unidentified		Gone.
		Kind of.
		And there's a lot of people out there sucking them up.
		And if they believe in the Bible like they say they do, the Bible points out in three books, in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do not quote Scripture.
unidentified		I will not.
		Thank you.
		That the Christ will not return until after the tribulation.
		So therefore, these people who say they will not be here during the tribulation are being deceived.
		For instance, it says that the meek will inherit what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The earth.
unidentified		The earth.
		Correct.
		But they say, no, we're going to go to heaven.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And maybe the meek will actually inhabit Mars.
		It's got a real thin atmosphere.
		The weather's lousy.
		Sir, I've got to run.
		I appreciate the call.
		Thank you.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello?
unidentified		Let me turn my radio down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, right away.
		Do that right away.
		Everybody, have your radios next to you so you can turn them down right away.
		I'm doing fine.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm calling to explain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off.
unidentified		I'll try to get it all up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why is this so?
		It's just one knob on a radar.
		There we go.
unidentified		All right.
		I want to explain to the people because I've been given information about chupacabras, Bigfoot.
		They are indeed pets, intelligent pets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're pets.
unidentified		Extraterrestrials.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you seen a picture of a chupacabra?
unidentified		What's that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever seen a picture of a chupacabra?
unidentified		Yes, I have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does that look like a pet to you?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Well, it doesn't look like a pet I would want to own.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
		So where do you get the idea that they'd be pets?
		They suck the blood out of animals and possibly even people.
		All the blood out, sir.
		Now, that's not a pet-like thing to do.
unidentified		No, but they have to eat two.
		They have to eat two.
		And basically, they're intelligent, though.
		On the other hand, they are actually providing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because they only eat Canadians?
unidentified		No, they'll eat any goat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's why chupacabra means goat sucker.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they suck the blood right out of a goat, all of the blood.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But this is not a pet quality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I grant you they have to eat two, but it's not a pet quality.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, and the same for Bigfoot.
		They smell poorly, I've been told.
		They make obnoxiously horrible sounds.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever heard of Bigfoot?
unidentified		No, but I've heard of people that have been on board UFOs that have smelled some awfully gross quality.
		well listen very carefully or Now, does that sound like your average pet?
		Yes, it does to an extraterrestrial because they don't really have to work closely with them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you an extraterrestrial?
unidentified		Yes, I am.
		Oh, you are?
		It was an experiment that was conducted.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which was a failure or a success?
unidentified		It was a failure.
unidentified		That's why they didn't take my embryo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're a failure.
unidentified		I'm a failure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you deformed, or in some way deformed, or mentally unbalanced?
unidentified		Some people might say so, yes.
unidentified		But I would like to say that in general, the reason why no one ever gets a Bigfoot is because they do have a base underground, and they let them out to do things because they were, at one time, outdoors creatures, and so they do like to run around up here on our planet every now and then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but they seem to disappear, and so I suppose their being underground would account for how they disappear so readily.
		What were you an experiment?
		I mean, what kind of experiment were you?
		What were you supposed to be?
unidentified		I was supposed to be a new hybrid that looks like a human, has all the attributes of a human, but would have an alien intelligence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in what way are you screwed up?
unidentified		It didn't.
		I don't know.
		I'm not sure.
		It just didn't turn out right.
		But I am constantly bombarded by sightings of UFOs that I can't readily explain why they keep in check on me, even though I'm a failed experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe they're trying to destroy you.
unidentified		Well, I don't know if they're trying to destroy me, I'm sure they could have done it a long time ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe they're just picking their time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you're a failed experiment, perhaps you can only be allowed to go so long, and then you've got to be erased.
unidentified		It's possible.
		You never know.
		But as far as the chupacabra goes, it's the same deal with them, except they don't live underground.
		They live in the UFOs themselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Name one lovable, pet-like quality of a chupacabra.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I said name one lovable, pet-like quality of a chupacabra.
unidentified		Well, they got nice, soft bellies.
		See, you felt the belly of a chupacabra, huh?
		Anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've seen the outside of a chupacabra.
		Give me a break.
		They're all scales.
		They're ugly.
		They have giant teeth.
		They have a bite that would take your thigh off right at the top.
		Come on, pets.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		And you're humming.
		Turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		Yeah, it's all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God, boy, am I destined to say this all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		This is Al from Susquehanna, PA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I'm not the Antichrist.
unidentified		I do have a little newsflash for you, I just see on ABC News.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		It is out of the bag.
		They showed a picture of it.
		Oh, I know.
		You're talking about Dean Kamen's thing.
		They show a picture of this two-wheeled scooter.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, great if it's hydrogen-powered, but first of all, the thing doesn't look stable at all to me.
		That's number one.
		Does it look stable at all to you?
		Well, I'd want to see some people gyroing down the street before I'd be willing to give it a try.
		I want four wheels, not two.
		That's for sure, yeah.
		And these, if you haven't seen it, folks, these are not two wheels, one in front, one in back.
		These are two wheels right next to each other, right?
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doesn't look stable to me.
unidentified		And it doesn't look like those wheels are like dry wheels either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it looks like something that a six-year-old would go down the street on.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, I don't know if that's it.
		I'm not all that impressed.
		Now, they do say the engine is really the main event.
		That the scooter is not it, but that the cell they're going to use, the hydrogen cell, is going to be the big event that eventually it'll work for cars and all the rest of it.
		But I've been hearing about this for years.
unidentified		Well, that's all I got.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
		You've got a very hummy phone, by the way.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, how you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing all right, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You must be in a truck.
unidentified		Yes, I am.
		Sorry, I cut down the noise here.
		Okay.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
		I'm sorry.
		Okay, I wanted to address your show that you had last night with Richard there.
		I have been on the road for a couple days here, and I haven't had a chance to look at my computer.
		But I was wondering, he was saying that the soil composition of Mars was highly silicate?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay.
		what in those areas what the uh...
		like there's a volcano activity like there are going to be All right, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		It's a secret.
		Richard would have to tell you, I really don't know the answer to it.
		I'm sorry.
		I don't think there are active volcanoes on Mars, but then again, I didn't think there was water either.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 7, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from March 7, 2001.
		I'm in love with you.
		Listen, do you want to know the secret?
		Do you promise not to tell?
		In the night, it's the home.
		City life, city door.
		In the day, nothing matters.
		It's a night, something matters.
		In the night, nothing more.
		Something like as you walk down the street of the soul.
		You take a chance, take a turn.
		You got me living before the night.
		Before the home, another story told.
		You take a step, take a turn.
		Another night, another day for life.
		Another stop, another.
		You have to forget to pay my own.
		It takes a time.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight's program originally aired March 7th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed, I do.
		And listen tonight as they come out, one after another.
		We're into open lines.
		Anything you want to talk about is fair game, but I am looking for the odd.
		Those claiming to be the Antichrist.
		Time travelers.
		Area 51 employees.
		The usual prop of strangeness.
		All of that.
		We're open for all of it and, of course, anything else you want to talk about right here.
		Now, back into the unknown we go.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Linda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Linda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
unidentified		Good.
unidentified		My radio is not on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Linda, you're a good girl.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Portland, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Portland, okay.
unidentified		Anyway, I wanted to call to tell you about my nephew.
		Your nephew?
		I was actually there when he was born.
		I wasn't in the room, but I was right outside.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		It was kind of a stressful delivery.
		He had this thing called meconium, where he sucked in a bowel movement while he was being born.
		So he was rushed by me really quick.
		Of course, my brother was freaking out the entire time thinking he was going to die.
		I just remember when they took him in front of me, I felt this cold chill, and I really got sick to my stomach thinking he was going to die.
		But then I just felt this presence.
		And anyway, I never really told anyone about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, you're telling me that the little one was evil.
unidentified		It just felt really cold, and I'd felt other things before and seen things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how long ago was this?
unidentified		This is five years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Five years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, our little tyke is now five years old.
unidentified		Yeah, and see, we've always joked, my boyfriend and I, about him being evil, you know, because he was born on June 25th, and we always thought that was funny.
unidentified		It was kind of like, you know, six months after Christmas, and we used to joke around to call him the Antichrist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So how is little Damien now?
unidentified		Well, there's been incidents.
		Things with my other nieces and nephews.
		You know, he tried to gouge out my other niece's eyes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's a sign right there.
unidentified		Yeah, it was really, I didn't witness it.
		My boyfriend did, and my father did.
		And my father would never believe anything like this, so he took us all aside and said we need to keep him away from all the other children.
		And so we did that.
		But now hearing about, when I heard your whole thing the other night about the Antichrist, I was almost relieved thinking that he's been found and he's not my nephew.
		I see.
		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so what else has little Damien done?
unidentified		Well, there's been animal incidents.
		They live out really out in a farm town kind of about 200 miles away.
		And there's been things they haven't been able to have a cat.
		And he's thrown cats around by their tails, done things, other things I'm sure that I haven't even heard about.
		These are all just rumors, too, among my other brothers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Suppose something happened and you were suddenly in charge.
		You had to take care of little Damien and raise little Damien from now on.
		What would you do?
unidentified		I don't know what I'd do.
		See, that's what I'm really worried about is hearing about things.
		Who knows what's going to happen is are there going to be missing things when he gets into his teens?
		We've joked about this, thinking that we'd hear about animal mutilations happening.
		But now that I'm hearing more about this, there's maybe others out there.
		I would want to know what I'd have to do if I found absolute proof.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, most five-year-olds are just sort of pulling stuff off coffee tables and causing that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And little Damien's gouging out eyes and taking care of cats.
unidentified		And doesn't really seem to have a soul.
unidentified		You kind of look at him, you know, compared to it, because my niece is the same exact age.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Blank eyes.
unidentified		Blank eyes, nothing there, but extremely intelligent with block building and pictures and very artful and knows everything and talked very early.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably the first word that said was Armani.
unidentified		Let me write that down.
unidentified		Wow, this is really...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a privilege talking to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm a little worried for you.
unidentified		I also wanted to ask you if Kathleen Keating had any type of advice, you know, how you'd handle this if I did find maybe something in his hairline when I babysat him or like numbers?
		Yeah, if I did, which I haven't, but if I, you know, were to find anything, what would I do?
		You know, there'd be no way they would believe anything like this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there'd probably be no way you could live to tell us about it.
unidentified		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so I don't think I'd look.
		Well, maybe I would.
		I don't know.
		Stay in touch.
unidentified		And also, I wanted to hit on the rods.
unidentified		I heard your show about the rods the other night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The rods, yes.
unidentified		And are they still available on your website?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, of course.
		What you do is you go to my website, you put your cursor over program, and then you go down to past programs info.
		And when you get down to Jose Escamilia's name, you'll see the link to all of the rods right there.
unidentified		Well, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you can still see it all, all right?
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And maybe that'll help out a lot of other people at the same time.
		I want to remind you, by the way, I'm not going to be here this Friday night, Saturday morning.
		I want to say this again.
		I'm going to be down in California at the Radio and Records Talk Radio Convention, where I understand that I will be mono-on-mono with a certain reporter back east named Matt Drudge.
		Should be interesting.
		Matt's had a lot to report about me and many others.
		And I'm kind of looking forward to it.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Marilyn outside of Memphis in Bahalu, Mississippi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Memphis, Maryland.
unidentified		All right.
		Yeah, on 60 a.m. on your dial W-R-E-G.
		Yes, ma'am.
		First of all, I just want to thank you for the way you give each belief a forum.
		We can't even hear it.
		I got a kind of a good ear, you know, I'm an entertainer and I sing and I got this ear that picks up on things, not that other people can't.
		I don't even hear any kind of dislike in your voice when you interview someone.
		We cannot tell what you believe in.
		That's very good.
		It's very good.
		You know, you're so open.
		The others, they cannot hide this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if I say, no, there's times when I say what I believe or what I think or what I really feel.
		Otherwise, I do remain open.
		That's the whole idea of this program, to remain open.
unidentified		But the others, I can hear it in their voices.
unidentified		And I didn't mean that you did not have a belief, but I meant that it doesn't come out in your voice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Intolerant.
unidentified		Okay.
		Yes, it is.
		And there's so few that are like you.
		Number two, I heard somebody mention Johanna Michelson last night.
		She is Hal Lindsay's sister-in-law.
		That beautiful side of evil book.
		And I wish you could get her on.
		It might be just www.johanna Michael.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, no.
		Don't put that on there.
		I'll tell you what, though.
		I'd be glad to have her on.
		If somebody will put me in contact.
		If you will send me contact information, if you can get a phone number or something like that.
		In fact, let me tell everybody about that.
		When you want me to have a guest on, it's so much easier for me if you will supply some contact information.
		Everybody wants John Edward right now from the Science Fiction Channel on.
		Fine, I'll have him on, but I need a contact number.
		And when you try and call John Edward, you get lost in telephone hell.
		I mean, you just, machines are full and there's no way to get through.
		And so, you know, I've proceeded based on a number of emails that I've had, but there appears to be no way to get through.
		So when we get hold of John Edward, we'll see about it.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, Mark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in South Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		South Carolina, right?
unidentified		Dave, South Carolina.
		It's not too controversial.
		Maybe it is, maybe it's not.
		I was just saying on the website, Dave, when I was at the library of yours, that the beer's coming down around or about 16th.
		I was thinking that the HAARP system, this might be an advantageous time for the United States maybe to prove something one way or the other with the HARP system, maybe a little target practice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the HARP system is designed to not go into outer space.
		It's designed to actually either burn a hole in the ionosphere or reflect from the ionosphere, coming back to Earth, to look for tunnels and bunkers and that sort of thing, or to cause the ionosphere to change in some way, but not to go into space.
		Now, of course, once the mirror crosses that line, I suppose HARP could take a shot at it.
unidentified		Yeah, it's possible.
		Just one other thing.
		I was coming across some stuff I seen the other day.
		I was reminiscing back about Carl Sagan.
		It's been 20 years since Carl Sagan came out with Cosmos.
		And for me, 20 years really gave me he just explained things, the universe so eloquently.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was the magic, of course, of Carl Sagan, that he could take hard science and he could explain it so that everybody understood it.
		The person closest to that now, I think, and there probably are several, but Dr. Michio Kaku is probably the closest.
		Now, if we could find another astronomer like Carl Sagan with the abilities, the vocal abilities Carl Sagan had, that would really be something, wouldn't it?
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		This is Noon.
		I'm calling from Santa Rosa, California.
		What's saying to you on KSRO?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Okay, great.
unidentified		By the way, I think I know why a lot of your callers are leaving their volume up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, why is that?
unidentified		It's because they're evil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's an evil thing, that's for sure.
unidentified		Yeah, right.
		Well, regarding your earlier guest, and talking about downloading consciousness into a clone and such, the concept that would be really scary for me is that say you're starting from Conscience A, you know, the original donor, and you've got your clone ready and all that.
		I guess a good analogy would be like, I'm a chain smoker of cigarettes, right?
		And sometimes you'll take a cigarette, you'll light a cigarette from the one that you were smoking before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a real chain smoker.
unidentified		Yeah, and it's hard to keep them lit, too.
		But now, you've got the light coming off the, you know, here, still going with the analogy here.
		You've got the heat coming off the one cigarette, and the other cigarette's lit, so they're both lit now, right?
		You still have the original light going on your first cigarette.
		So I'm afraid that if they download your consciousness, it still stays inside your head, and now you've got two of you running around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that essentially would be correct.
		And yes, sure, that would be correct.
		And so the interesting question is, which one would have the soul?
unidentified		Yeah, exactly.
		That's the point I guess I'm making is that what if, all right, you've got to download the new clone and all that, but your soul's still stuck in the old body?
		You know, it's like you paid money for nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you'd be soulless, but you'd still be conscious.
unidentified		Yeah, you'd have a new clone running around, but he's still trapped in your old body.
unidentified		You see what I'm saying?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I do, clearly, yes.
		But, you know, for some people, I mean, for example, if you were dying, I mean, you know, the very end, right, you wouldn't much care, would you?
		Here would be your opportunity to have a 19 or 20-year-old body, whatever it is you ordered of, and continue living.
		And believe me, as the last breath went out of you, wheezing breath in your case, as a chain smoker, you'd want that new body right away.
unidentified		Yeah, but I mean, if your soul is still stuck in the old body, it's like it hasn't been happening at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we don't know how big a part the soul plays in the total constitution of a person.
unidentified		Yeah, that's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It may be very separate from your intellect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And believe me, people with money and intellect would pay lots of money to have a continuation of that.
unidentified		Yeah, that would be kind of a real ego trip there, kind of, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Soul or not?
		And then, so then when you finally did expire, the question is, where would the soul go?
		Would it go forward where it's supposed to go, or would it simply transfer to the new convenient body?
unidentified		Yeah, that's a million-dollar question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At least.
unidentified		Do you have time for a quick Rod slash worm story?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rod slash worm, sure.
unidentified		Well, in 1986, I was working at a sawmill and there.
		I was working swingshift.
		I got off very late, around 2 in the morning.
		And I used to live out in a place called Dry Creek Valley.
		It takes a rural two-lane to go from the sawmill to my house.
		Now, there's a very, very old graveyard there, and the road's called Canyon Road.
		It's in a town called Geyserville.
		And it's had a long history for really weird things going on out there.
		We've had big foot sightings and ghosts and such like that.
		And as I was heading home and I was just passing the cemetery, there's a long kind of upslope to the road, heading like an uphill.
		And it's a straightaway.
		So you can see a good 100, 200 yards.
		And as I was driving up that hill, I managed to look up because I had my high gains on because it's very dark out there, dark and pretty damn spooky.
		And I noticed what, for the life of me, looked like a big earthworm.
		It was kind of whitish-gray.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you say big, how big?
unidentified		Like the width of a two-lane country road.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's really big.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it'd be more like a sky worm, though, right?
unidentified		Yeah, it was flying about 30 feet off the ground or so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God, I just had a stupid bug land on my coffee a little while ago, and it totally freaked me out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If I looked up and saw something like that, that'd be the end of me.
unidentified		I'd run off the road.
		I was driving rather slow because I was tired, and I was pulling green chain, which is hard work, and was heading home.
		And when I saw that, I punched it to the accelerator to the floor.
		And the funny thing is, is that the next day I read in the newspaper down there in Santa Rosa they had the county fair going on at the time, and there was a couple dozen people that saw two or three of these things, the same thing.
		They looked like earthworms.
		They were moving like earthworms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm surprised you even thought you could get away from the skyworm.
unidentified		Well, thankfully, it was heading from left to right as I was driving past, and thankfully it didn't follow me.
unidentified		Scared the bejevers out of me, that's for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
		I really appreciate the call.
		Thank you.
		Any other skyworm sightings out there?
		That's something the size of a two-lane highway.
		Flying in the sky.
		A worm.
		You look up through your windshield, and here comes a worm.
		A giant skyworm.
		Anybody else out there?
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Eric.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm all right.
unidentified		This is Jeff calling from Winnipeg, Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Jeff.
unidentified		I'm going to sort of jog your memory.
unidentified		I guess it was about a year ago you had a young fellow that was on the air that had developed something that you assimilated to a Jacob's ladder.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Madman Markham.
unidentified		Yeah, I think that was he had tossed a screw.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was more than a year ago.
		Yeah, he had tossed a screw through the device, the small-scale device he made, and it disappeared momentarily and then reappeared.
		And so he went out and stole a bunch of transformers and built a giant model.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then, to top it off, he went out and had to rent a warehouse because his parole officer wasn't real happy with him, rented a warehouse and made a giant model of what he considered to be a time machine and was going to walk through it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, long story short, he's never been heard from again.
unidentified		That's the reason I was calling you.
unidentified		I never heard anything further to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gone, gone.
		No, I'm serious.
		Not at the telephone number, not at the address.
		I do a national show.
		He'd know to get hold of me by email or one way or the other.
		And he hasn't.
		Madman Markham is gone.
unidentified		You would think, yeah.
unidentified		One other thing, those of us that may have missed the show that you were talking about, the Antichrist, you had a caller on earlier that you had cut off because they had mentioned a name on the air?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I'll do the same to you.
unidentified		Don't mention it.
		Oh, no, I don't know the name.
		That's just it.
		I don't know quite enough of the story, and I'm just wondering.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, if you'll go to my website.
		In fact, I should repeat this because everybody wants to know I know.
		Go to my website, go to What's New, and the Kathleen Keating webpage, signed by Kathleen, is there for you to read now, and you will be able to get it on my website now.
unidentified		What's Costnam Keating?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Her name, the guest, was Kathleen Keating.
unidentified		Keating, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what she has written is up there to be seen now.
unidentified		Well, thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're welcome.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
		Turn off that radio, please.
unidentified		Yes, hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello.
unidentified		Is this Art Bell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
unidentified		Hi, I'm Kay from Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Kay.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I wanted to ask you, this is off all the subjects tonight, but one of your songs that you play every now and then, I've only heard it a couple times, it has the words Rockaby Baby and When the Wind Blows, and I've been trying to find out the name and the singer so I could get a copy of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really, that song really goes to work on your brain, doesn't it?
unidentified		I love it, and I just want to get a copy, and I don't know the name or who sings it.
		I couldn't find it in your bumper music.
		Cradle Will Rock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it's an very old song.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You may have a hard time getting it.
unidentified		And who's it by?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have no idea.
unidentified		Oh, well, at least I got the name.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At least you got the name.
		So you can go into a store and say, Cradle Will Rock.
		Cradle Will Rock.
		Help me out.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you're welcome.
		They're probably not going to be able to help you out because it's a very, very old song.
		I'll play it for you a little later this morning.
		And maybe that'll help you hum it for the guy.
		I'm Art Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 7th, 2001.
		You are with me here tonight.
		Music playing about its way into time.
		Touching you, woman's tender.
		Lord, I feel such a sweet surrender.
		Beautiful is the dream that makes you mine Rock me gently Rock me gently Well, Jack beat them, Jack Bigwick.
		Jack jumped over the candlestick.
		He jumped so high up above.
		He landed in the cradle above.
		Well, rock-a-bye, baby, in the treetop.
		When the wind blows, the bread will rock.
		So rock-a-bye, baby, in the treetop.
		Oh, my God.
		When the wind blows.
		High-diddle-diddle, the cat-diddle.
		The cow jumped over the moon.
		And on her way down, she met a turtle dove and said, Let's go rocking in the cradle of love.
		Well, rock-goodbye, baby.
		In the treetop.
		You're listening to Art Bell Summer in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 7th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, that reminds me.
unidentified		When the wind blows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This song, by the way, will get into your head and you'll be dreaming about it before you know it.
		I want to test the international line.
		We're in current discussions with the telephone company trying to get all this straightened out.
		Now, if you're somewhere else in the world, I don't care where you are.
		Try the international line for us.
		Would you please?
		All you do is call the AT ⁇ T operator and have her call 800-893-0903.
		So if people in all parts of the world right now would please try this for me, I'd be deeply, deeply appreciated.
		Again, call the AT ⁇ T operator and have her call 800-893-0903.
		And let's see what we get on the international line.
unidentified		okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we're about to go back to open lines.
		However, just one more time, I want to say this because I think the international line is dysfunctional.
		We have done a very interesting thing.
		We have taken the tasty Canadians and moved them from the international line to respectively the east and west of the Rockies line, along with Americans.
		So now all we have is the international line, supposedly international for the rest of the world.
		But I have my doubts.
		The phone company is working very hard on this.
		They have software that is supposed to allow this to occur.
		But I have serious doubts.
		So tonight I'm going to test the international line, and I have a feeling it's dysfunctional.
		One more time.
		I don't care where you are in the world.
		What I want you to do is call the AT ⁇ T operator.
		It's a free call.
		It's absolutely free.
		Call the AT ⁇ T operator, Korea, Japan, Europe, South America, doesn't matter.
		And have her call 800-893-0903.
		Once again, 800-893-0903.
		Now, if you find that you're unable to get through on the international line, what I would like you to do is email me and tell me you couldn't get through.
		And in that way, we will go to the phone company and say, see, it's not working.
		So the way you would email me to let me know is to fire me off some email.
		Let me know what country you're in.
		My email address is Artbell.
		That's A-R-T-B-E-L-L at mindspring.com.
		We'll use that address only for this.
		Artbell at mindspring.com.
		And let me know what country you're in and the fact that you could not get through on the international line.
		Or give it a shot and get through.
		Either way, before the night is out, we will know.
		And in the morning, we will talk to the telephone company who you would think would treat somebody with a last name like Bell a little better.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, how are you doing, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm okay, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		North of the boarding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		North of the ball with Tasty Canadian.
unidentified		There you go.
		I wanted to ask you a question.
		Sure.
		Have you ever come across any incidences where a child has believed to have been abducted, had an abduction experience, and experienced any hair loss as a result?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or only if they were dropped back to earth by their hair and it ripped.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		I'm just wondering if it's, because I haven't come across any in literature, and I have reason to believe that myself and my children have been involved in abduction situations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
unidentified		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you all have hair loss?
unidentified		No, no.
		She's the only one that has that.
		She.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She.
unidentified		She's 10 years old.
unidentified		She's half bald on her top of her head.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy smokes.
unidentified		And has been since about age four or five.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do all of you remember this abduction?
unidentified		You know what?
		I don't remember all the details.
		I've woke up with the sleep paralysis kind of thing.
		I'm positive somebody's there, but paralyzed so much that I'm blinded.
		I can't even open my eyes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then why do you think that she was abducted as well?
unidentified		Well, because I was watching a TV program, and they had an artist's depiction of a gray on the program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And my son, who was three at the time, just enough to be able to talk properly, walked in, and he doesn't know anything about this stuff.
		Well, what?
		He walks in the room, sees the TV, stops in front of it, stares, and says, that's a bad man.
		And I said, who's a bad man?
		I didn't even entertain him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought he was a man.
		I understand.
		No, they were showing TV.
		I got you.
		I got you.
		Obviously, you recognize the gray.
		Now, one thing to know about the gray.
		When you look at grays, what do they need, sir?
		What do grays need?
unidentified		What do they need?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, what do they need?
		You said you saw a gray on TV.
		So I've seen lots of grays.
		What do they need?
unidentified		I don't know what you mean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do they need?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you look at a gray and you consider a gray and you sit there and you can't.
unidentified		Oh, they've got no hair.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They need hair.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So maybe they're trying to figure out how to get hair to grow.
unidentified		I have no idea.
		Here's what my son said right after that, though, which convinced me that something happened to him.
		After he pointed at the man and said he was a bad man, he says, they always make me go with them.
		And I tell them I don't want to go.
		And the way he said it, he was mad.
		I tell them I don't want to go.
		That's how he said.
		And I was like, my wife saw, she watched a light in the sky that watched her for a good 10 minutes.
		She kept trying to wake me up.
		I kept insisting, no, let me sleep.
		It's a plane.
		The minute I got out of bed, it took off.
		I saw it leaving.
		But it took straight away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How about your wife?
		She's an adult.
		Has she had any experiences?
unidentified		Has what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has she had any experiences?
unidentified		Beyond that, that she recalls, no.
		But I don't quiz her a whole lot about it because she's upset enough about my daughter.
		But here's what I keep thinking.
		I'm thinking, okay, you can lose hair due to exposure to radiation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
unidentified		What powers these things?
unidentified		And then X-rays and all forms of radiation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, you're absolutely right.
		All right.
		Well, thank you.
		Yeah.
		I suppose you could assume that they're powered by some kind of radiation.
		That is quite an assumption.
		One would assume even a more complex, advanced drive system than radiation.
		Because, I mean, that's kind of what we're looking at, right?
		All right, well, let's try it.
		International line, you are on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Origin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		My name is Anthony.
unidentified		I did get through on your international line, though, but I had to kind of do a little changes in the numbers that you gave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from?
unidentified		I'm calling from Stuttgart, Germany.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Germany.
		All right.
		So how did you have to modify the numbers?
unidentified		Actually, I called our German operator, and she had given me the number of the international AT ⁇ T operator.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Which was a lot different than the one you had on your website here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know, but once you gave them 800-893-0903, you got through, right?
unidentified		Straight in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, right.
		All the way from Germany.
		That's excellent.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
		I used to live up there by living in Las Vegas out in Henderson a couple years ago.
		Yes.
		I worked for Sprint, actually.
		Contractor for Sprint.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You actually worked for the phone company, huh?
unidentified		Yeah, well, that's what I'm doing over here.
unidentified		I'm director of technical services for Deutsche Telephone Work right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, well, so it figures you'd know how to get through.
unidentified		Just a real quick little story for you here.
		This happened about four years ago.
		I was working for a contractor for Sprint.
		I got approached by a company called Desert Industries that was doing some work out at the test site.
		I'll tell you what, I was in Area 51 for about three weeks, doing some work.
		Flew out on Janice Airways and a whole nine yards, had the whack and hut security all over me.
		They have got enough fiber optic cable in that place to facilitate the entire West Coast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, and what do you suppose they need all that bandwidth for?
unidentified		Well, I have no idea.
unidentified		I was only paid to do one small part of the job.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you're saying that thing really has a lot of fiber to it, huh?
unidentified		Quite a bit.
		Quite a bit.
		It's been a few years, but the people that call the show, I listen actually on the net here during the day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What time is it there anyway?
unidentified		It's about 20 after 10 right now in the morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that would figure.
unidentified		But I just wanted to call and let you know that all that stuff that they say about Area 51, I don't know some of the callers you have, but most of them that sound relatively intelligent have been out there, I would imagine or assume.
unidentified		Well, sir, it's as scary as all get out of here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know how much bandwidth it takes to transfer the contents of a human brain from one place to another?
unidentified		I couldn't even begin to fathom that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably about that much fiber.
unidentified		I do know, though, that that was the most fiber cable optic interface system, the biggest one I've ever seen before.
unidentified		And I've been doing this for about 15, 20 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, listen, I really appreciate your call all the way from Germany and also the Area 51 info.
		We've put it together, you know, a little piece at a time.
unidentified		No problem, Mark.
unidentified		You guys have a good day and keep up the good work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, and take care.
		All right, there you have it.
		Germany.
		And he was at Area 51, where there's more fiber than he's ever seen in his whole life.
		And there's this guy who works for Sprint, or worked for Sprint.
unidentified		Ha ha ha ha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		Great to have you back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great to be here.
unidentified		Hi, this is Sarah down here in Venus, Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Venus, Texas, huh?
unidentified		Yep.
		Little town about the size of Trump.
		Okay.
		I was calling about the recent headshakers lately.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The school shootings, yes.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I was wondering if you saw that home video on Inside Edition this evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, what did they have?
unidentified		They had a video shot during the summer from the shooter that just shut up San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what was in the video?
unidentified		Well, actually, I felt really sad for the kid.
		He had just been moved.
		Apparently, his parents are divorced, and he's been separated from his mother, only talks to her a couple times a year, and got moved out here from, I think, Maryland, or, yeah, I think it was Maryland.
		Moved out to California and didn't like the school, didn't like the people.
		You know, he just absolutely hated it and wanted to move back to where he was from.
		And it was really chilling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all of this is, you know, it's too bad, but none of it, in my mind, adds up to grab guns, start killing fellow classmates.
unidentified		No, it really doesn't.
		But you have to remember.
		Do you remember when you were a teenager?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Vividly.
unidentified		How everything was the end of the world.
unidentified		If people hated you, then you were never going to get through it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, it wasn't that way for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was wrapped up in radio and girls, and I spent a disproportionate amount of my day, every day, thinking about girls.
unidentified		Well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I remember as a teenager.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, especially for young boys.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
unidentified		I don't know.
		The more I think, if you look at all these, they're so stereotypical.
		Most of these kids, if they weren't from a broken home and they were isolated from their family, the kids picked on them.
		They just had so many things they should have been in psychological treatment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, but there's about 10 million miles of difference from somebody who is disturbed or emotionally distraught or even depressed and somebody who walks around with a smile on their face, killing.
unidentified		Well, there is, but when you get to that young, I don't know that the wine is that distinct for them.
unidentified		They don't know the difference.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I remember 15 vividly, and I'm telling you, thoughts like that never entered my mind.
unidentified		Well, honestly, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was no room.
unidentified		No, but then again, society has changed since then.
		If you look at it today, you don't have the same structures.
		The family influences aren't there.
		The societal influences aren't there.
		Even the media doesn't pressure you to be good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
unidentified		I mean, you look at TV, it's all violence.
		It's all hate.
		They don't show sex or love.
		No, they show hate and violence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they show some sex.
unidentified		Yeah, but it's never in a loving context, is it?
		No.
		In general, I mean, there's a lot of...
		I think a lot of these kids are just handed over to society to raise.
		He hated the people he was with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I hated a lot of places as well.
unidentified		And so were all, you know, most all of these kids were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, but you're talking about most of the teenage population of America.
		I hate my parents.
		I hate my school.
		I hate this stupid little town.
		I want to go someplace Real.
		I mean, that's every teenager.
unidentified		Exactly.
		But where is it that parents actually figure out that they have to key in and decide, okay, my kid really does have a problem?
		I think it's as much the parents' culpability that they're not realizing that this kid is seriously stepping over the limits.
		Because, yes, all teenagers go through these problems, but somewhere somebody's not stepping in when they need to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I appreciate the call.
		Thank you.
		I don't know how you would discern where the line is.
		Now, this young fellow talked to some of his classmates, you may recall, and actually said that he was thinking of doing this.
		now there would be a good place to step in i would say uh...
		there is there's place where it's obvious but otherwise Do you remember when you were 15?
		Do you remember the things you thought about?
		If you're a guy, you probably were a whole lot like me.
		And I have no idea what girls think about.
		And then, of course, we had the previous day's caller thing squashed when a girl committed a shooting just yesterday.
		Not 24 hours after we say girls don't do that.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello.
		Hello.
		Hi, Mr. Bell.
		I didn't hear a click or anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have a newfangled system here that's clickless.
unidentified		Wow, that's great.
		I've been listening to you for a couple of years.
		Forgive me, I'm a little nervous.
		I've never called a radio show before, let alone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're a virgin, then?
unidentified		Well, I guess born again, I suppose.
		I think I called a radio station in 1970-something once.
		If I see Born Again, then I'll have to do it.
		Yeah, I'm calling.
		I'm a little nervous, so please forgive me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got that.
unidentified		Just relax.
		Yeah, ever since you picked up, my heart's been pounding about telling you the story.
		I've only told two other people in my life about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this will change that.
unidentified		Yeah, I guess.
unidentified		I'm just going to pretend that it's you and I on the phone and just forget that there are dozens of people listening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, dozens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so tell me.
unidentified		Are you familiar with the book by John Mack?
unidentified		I don't know if you've ever had him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I've interviewed him.
unidentified		I thought you have, but sometimes you forget.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Several times.
unidentified		I had an experience, I believe it was 1992 or the winter of 93, in Rockland County on the Palisades Parkway.
		I don't know if you know the area, but for people that don't know the area, it's two lanes north, two lanes south, with a median between the two lanes.
		It's basically sort of countrified around there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you driving?
unidentified		Yeah, I was driving.
		I'm sorry.
		Anyway, the median in the middle is probably about 50 yards wide and has trees right up the whole length of it as far as you could go with a few exceptions.
		I was leaving my girlfriend's house.
		It was probably about 2.30 in the morning.
		She lives about 20 minutes from my house.
		I live just on this side of the Hudson River in Westchester County.
		And I left her house in the middle of a snowstorm.
		There were no other cars on the road.
		There was a good five, six inches of snow just blanketing everything.
		And I was driving very slowly, for obvious reasons.
		Sure.
		The road stretching out ahead of me.
		The sky was bright and pink.
		There were no lampposts, no road lights on this road.
		But it was pretty bright out.
		And the flakes were big.
		It was coming towards me.
		It's like one of those nights where you drive slow because you drive off the road, basically.
		No other cars on the road.
		And I was actually driving along slowly, kind of enjoying myself with the serenity of the whole atmosphere.
		And I had my window open.
		It wasn't terribly cold.
		And on the other side of the median, on the other side of the road where traffic should be heading in the opposite direction, all of a sudden what appeared pacing me on the other side of the road were what seemed to be very bright white headlights that were pacing me at the exact same speed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean to say going in the same direction, same speed?
unidentified		On the wrong side of the road.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man.
unidentified		Same direction.
unidentified		And I was looking across at this, and I slowed way down, and this, what I thought was a car, slowed way down, and I thought, oh, my God, if anybody comes up north, you know, we're going to have a nasty head-on collision here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, at least you have that together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I might have thought for a moment, oh, my God, I'm on the wrong side of the road.
unidentified		Well, anyway.
		Yes, you have this talent for putting people at ease, by the way.
		Thank you.
		Anyway, what I thought was a car was just pacing me, and I sped up and slowed down at certain points.
		This is going on for about five to seven minutes or so, and then I realized that these lights were pretty high off the road, not quite treetop height, but I'd probably guesstimate it maybe 15, 20 feet high.
		Even higher than a car.
		I thought, you know, trucks can't fit on this road.
		It's just not made for it.
		It's cars only no trucks.
		And as I was slowing down, I was watching this car thinking, oh my God, we're going to have a head-on collision.
		It disappeared.
		It just suddenly stopped.
		Poof.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Poof.
unidentified		Gone.
		And I slowed down, looked back.
		It was gone.
		And I also realized on that particular stretch, there were no exits where this person could have gotten off.
		And all the exits would have had to have gone off in the other direction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it was a ghost car.
		Or a ghost car.
		But that's not it.
		All right, well then hold on, and we'll get to it along with Dean Kamen's, it, I guess, shortly.
		Dean Kamen next year, this caller right after the break.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 7, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from March
		7, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from March 7, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from March 7, 2001.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 7th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God, I'm very serious about this international line thing.
		Let me try one more time.
		I don't care where you are in the world.
		We've confirmed Germany so far.
		We know Germany can get through.
		But I haven't heard from Australia, and they're pretty frequent customers on the international line.
		So I don't care where you are in the world.
		Call your operator and get the AT ⁇ T operator on the phone.
		The AT ⁇ T operator.
		That's the one you want.
		And tell her you want to call 800-893-0903.
		We are testing tonight to see if this line is truly international.
		So far, we seem to have a pipeline to Germany, and that's about it.
		So get on the phone.
		And also, the second part of this is, if you cannot get through out there, send me email and let me know where you are and the fact that you could not get through.
		Send that email to artbell at mindspring.com.
		That's Art Bell at MindSpring.com.
		Art Bell All right, let us experimentally, very quickly go to the international line.
		Hello there.
		Where are you calling from, pray tell?
unidentified		Yes, I'm calling from Hong Kong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hong Kong, China?
unidentified		Oh, well, Hong Kong, SAR, Special Administration Region.
unidentified		We are not quite China yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's right.
		You're not.
		All right, hold on one moment.
		I hate to put China on hold, but I really have to because I have to finish up with this call.
		Oh, my God, China.
		Hello there on the wildcard line.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's see.
		We have the lights.
		They disappeared.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm really sorry about being long-winded.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
		Go ahead and finish up.
		Go ahead and finish up.
unidentified		Okay.
		So, anyway, this light disappeared, and I drove all the way home thinking, my God, I hope that person didn't get killed.
		And the more I thought about it, I realized I didn't see taillights.
		I didn't see anything like that.
		And I was wondering, like, you know, what kind of a truck this was that was doing that.
		Anyway, I go home.
		I didn't even pay attention to what time it was until I got in the house.
		And like I said, I left at about 2.30 in the morning.
		It's a 15, 20-minute ride normally.
		I got home, it was about 25 after 4.
		And I was baffled by why it took me two hours to get home when I was going, you know, 35 miles an hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's an obvious answer for that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They had your butt.
unidentified		Well, let me tell you, I went to sleep and I had a very, very, very vivid dream that my car was sitting still on this road, and I was surrounded by deer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Deer.
unidentified		Like one or two off to the right that I was looking through my windshield.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean like deer with antlers?
unidentified		Like deer with no antlers.
		No antlers.
		And they were all watching me.
		One through the passenger window.
		And as I looked over to my left, one was coming toward my window as though it was going to talk to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The deer was going to talk to you.
unidentified		Like the deer was going to talk to me.
		In my dream, there was this deer that was coming to talk to me, and there was one off to the left, to the side.
		And in my dream, my car door opened, and they escorted me out.
		And once I was outside of the car, I stood up and I was facing where I came from.
		And there was a very bright light, and the deer to the left of me reached up to hold my hand, to walk me along somewhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It took you into its hoof?
unidentified		Well, no, it was a hand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was a hand on a deer.
unidentified		Right.
		This was the only recollection I had of the dream.
		In subsequent years, I've had flashes of continuations of this dream where all the deer had hands and they were taking me by both hands.
		And I remember how I was feeling very calm and very relaxed.
		And it wasn't until a few years later, after I was having more flashes of dream, where I was going towards the light, and I looked back at my car.
		The deer were by my car, and they were following me, and there was one or two standing by this light.
		Until I read this book by John Mack, in his opening chapter, he tells how people have had experiences where they've experienced animals that have, or say, extraterrestrials that have deceived people into thinking somehow that they were animals or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You wouldn't be afraid of a deer, usually.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		So it's funny, when I read that, it shook me up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you eat venison now?
unidentified		No, I don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No special hankering?
unidentified		No, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, you know, it sounds to me like you've had an experience, and probably you ought to get hold of John Mack.
		I mean, your story is really strange.
unidentified		But the thing was, after that, it sort of triggered memories where I continued having flashes of dreams where I then realized that I was taken into a craft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
unidentified		And when I woke up that morning, and I never thought about it until I read his book, I had a scar, or let's say like a deep scratch mark, right by my navel that I couldn't understand where it came from the next day.
		Like, how did I scratch myself in my sleep?
		And it's like, I still have a scar there now to this day.
		It's almost like a horseshoe kind of a shape thing.
		Like a hoof.
		And yeah.
		And I've had ever since then I've had, I don't know if you've ever heard of such a thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God, I have it.
unidentified		Problems with digestion and all that sort of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The mark of the hoof.
unidentified		And I sort of, you know, like I can hear that it belch uncontrollably at times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know the feeling.
		Thank you for the call.
		And the mark of the hoof.
		Now, to China.
		Actually, to Hong Kong.
		Hello there.
unidentified		Greetings from the Pearl of the Orient.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You really live in a really, truly beautiful city.
		I've spent some time in Hong Kong, and it's a lovely, lovely city.
		Since things have changed, has Hong Kong changed very much?
unidentified		It has changed a little, but normal life is still continuing on as we knew it before the changeover.
unidentified		I think the changes will come slowly throughout the years by 2045 when the official takeover will happen, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what do you expect then?
unidentified		By then, I believe China as a whole will be into the World Trade Center.
unidentified		And Hong Kong still being a very economical power of Asia, I don't think there will be too many changes because of the fact that there is so much here in Hong Kong to offer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Shall we test and see how much monitoring there is?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think will happen to Taiwan by then?
unidentified		That I have no comment on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought perhaps not.
		You were able, though, to get through to our toll-free 800 line, which is very, very nice.
		Are you a national of what country?
		Are you native to Hong Kong?
unidentified		No, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm from the U.S. You're from the U.S. And what's got you in Hong Kong?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you on vacation or do you work there?
unidentified		I work here at present.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		And I was just listening to your show.
		And by the way, I didn't even get a hold of an operator.
		It was all through voice contact.
		All I did was I dialed the number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		They asked me to recite the number I needed.
		I did.
		They confirmed it with a voice message back to me.
		And all I had to do was say yes.
		And then the phone started ringing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's absolutely remarkable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What time of day, in fact, what day is it over there?
unidentified		Today is Wednesday afternoon.
		Correct.
		It's Thursday afternoon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thursday afternoon.
unidentified		And right now it is about 7.45 in the evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		7.45 in the evening.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I really appreciate your taking the trouble to see if it would work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And now I can add Germany and Hong Kong together.
unidentified		Correct.
unidentified		Okay, very good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much and take care.
		Germany and Hong Kong.
		That's great.
		All right, we'll see if anybody else can make it.
		That's very separate parts of the world, Germany and Hong Kong.
		All right.
		So get hold.
		You can try dialing directly, as he did.
		That's amazing that he could get through that way.
		Internationally, wherever you are in the world, give it a try.
		If you can get through, great.
		If you can't, email me and let me know why you couldn't and what country you're in.
		The number internationally is 800-893-0903.
		After I asked him about Taiwan, there was an awfully long pause there.
		Not all of it due to the satellite connection, obviously.
		He paused and was smart enough not to make a comment.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How's your digestive system?
unidentified		Oh, God, you don't want to ask that.
unidentified		That's a whole other story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry I asked.
unidentified		Oh, I just had to laugh because as I'm listening, I understand what the gentleman's talking about.
unidentified		It makes me wonder if the alien community has any idea of how bad their covering techniques are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've never heard of the whole deer story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was a little strange.
unidentified		I had a friend inform me, she was very into the whole alien thing, and she was telling me that I obviously was an abductee from experiences I had told her about.
		And I was like, well, the less I know, the better, because if I find out and then I find out I'm an abductee, what the heck am I going to do about it?
		Just too bad until they decide to come talk to us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to just worry about it if you know.
unidentified		That's true.
unidentified		I wanted to comment on the whole gun situation that's been occurring in schools.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Guns, all right, yes.
unidentified		Because I'm familiar with an atmosphere in a school community that will cause that kind of thing.
unidentified		The first comment I have to get out, I've been wanting to say since it happened, Colobine, the first real big story that happened?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was probably the biggest story, but certainly not the first.
unidentified		Right.
		I happened to be watching.
		I actually had the live coverage.
		I didn't see the repeats on news.
		I happened to be home that day.
		And this girl, in weeping and sobbing in her misery, says, she's like, I can't believe, I mean, this kind of stuff is supposed to happen in the South.
		This doesn't happen here.
		And I was like, living in Nashville, Tennessee, I found that highly offensive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why the South?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean.
unidentified		Well, it's just, it contributes to the whole idea.
		I mean, I grew up on the East Coast, Delaware, right?
		Considered a pretty mundane place.
		The problem is, Delaware being 45 minutes from Baltimore, Jersey, Philly, right?
		Yeah.
		Our 45 minutes from just about anywhere, we get all their problems that try to move out of that area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And kind of like us here, we get the Los Angeles stuff.
unidentified		Right.
		The year after I graduated, they had security systems to scan you for weapons and stuff coming into a school because they weren't going to play that game of, oh, it doesn't happen here.
		And the fact that when I think about how many kids so far in the media in the last year have gone into a school with weapons, it's like, folks, grow up, get some protection, take care of yourself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what were you like when you were that age?
unidentified		I was a gang member.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were a gang member.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A gang member?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Delaware?
unidentified		Yes.
		I was actually a member of the largest white gang, and we were partners with the largest black gang in Delaware.
		holy smokes and uh...
		as a matter of fact we use Thank you.
		I am, actually.
		Are you?
		But, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just don't cross you, huh?
unidentified		Yeah.
		But it comes down to, you know, you get into you have a group of friends, and then your group of friends expands, and then someone else's group of friends decides that they have a problem with that.
		You know, and that's basically how it developed.
		At least in areas like that that don't have long time like bloods and crypts.
		We didn't have all that.
		It just, you know, we were part of the first ones that happened there.
		And we actually have an FBI file where they investigated us for gun running.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For gun running?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you running guns?
unidentified		Well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't want to say?
unidentified		I'm like, what's the statute of limitations on that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About seven years, I think.
unidentified		Yeah, a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A little bit little bit.
unidentified		Not big enough that the FBI really needed to hunt us down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just little guns?
unidentified		Nine millimeters.
		Oh, my God.
		Just the sweet little Delaware girl.
		So, you know, I understand, especially because I was a teen that when I was very, we're talking like eighth grade.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I had a chemical imbalance that caused me mental distress.
unidentified		I was convinced the whole world was out to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we're going to blame it on a chemical imbalance.
unidentified		No, no, no, no, no, no.
		Wait.
		I went in, but when I hit puberty, okay, it balanced all that out.
		In the meantime, they had had me on a treatment, but the main problem was at that point my mental was so far out of whack, all right, that they had to coax me back to convince me that the world is an evil place, that kind of thing.
		But all of that was corrected.
		All of my therapy was done before I hit high school.
		So now I'm not saying that that has the part to do with it.
		My whole point, actually, I'll quit wandering around here, is that my mother always said that manners are the essence of survival in today's society.
		And she's being proven correct by the fact that most of the kids that have decided, okay, I have to murder half my school are the targets.
		Like, the media really caught on to that whole trench coat mafia, which was the mocking term that school used to refer to those kids by.
		You know what I mean?
		And I'm like, I don't believe it's a justification.
		And I would love to know at what point, I don't know when we crossed the line where it was, okay, I'm going to beat that kid into the ground to, okay, I'm going to shoot that kid.
		I don't know when that happened.
		I remember no beating people up when I was in school.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, see, you were part of the transition because when I was in school, there were a few fights, but we didn't beat people up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, we didn't dark people and beat the hell out of so-and-so, right?
unidentified		You were apparently.
unidentified		You walked up, girls, especially, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		You come up behind them.
		Yeah.
		And I'd come up to them like a buddy, right up next to him, slide my head up the back, kick my foot in front and trip them, and then smash their face to the floor.
		That was my favorite.
		That was my register move, but only if they earned it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, you're like the missing link between back when times were good and today's go in and just start shooting while you're smiling.
		You're the missing link, and I really appreciate your call, dear.
		I've got to run.
		She sounded so sweet, didn't she?
		On the international line, you're on the air.
		Hello?
unidentified		Yeah, hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
unidentified		Yeah, hi, it's Gary here calling from England.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		England?
unidentified		Yes, I thought I thought of you who did ask for international callers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I absolutely did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What part of England are you in?
unidentified		I'm from Liverpool.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Liverpool?
unidentified		Yeah, the Beatles, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's usually harder to understand people who are calling from Liverpool because of their accents.
unidentified		Yeah, well, I've lived here all my life, so I don't suppose I'm any different than anyone else who lives here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what else comes from Liverpool besides the Beatles?
		I mean, that's history, right?
		What have you done for us lately?
unidentified		Well, for Americans, I don't think you'll know very much, but okay.
unidentified		You call it football.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		Liverpool football club.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know England is pretty passionate about soccer, which you call football, of course, right?
unidentified		Of course, yeah.
unidentified		And my team, of course, is Liverpool.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
		Maybe you can answer a question for me.
		When England plays Germany, too many times people get trampled, beaten up, and sometimes killed.
		and uh...
		white white is that was a psychology behind you knows such I don't know.
unidentified		Do you think it's down to World War II for any possibility about that?
		Maybe.
		I think a lot of it's down to World War II because I know the England fans at these games chant songs from certain films like The Dambusters.
		He whistled the tune.
		Yeah, and that must have annoyed the Germans, obviously.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you may have a very good point there.
		I mean, it really is a miserable thing.
		I've watched some of the games.
		I was at World Cup, as a matter of fact.
		Yeah.
		And some of that was pretty nasty.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Well, I mean, it's turned the other way now.
		It used to be England.
		They call it the English disease, actually, or this hooliganism.
		But now, it seems to be worse in Europe.
		My team Liverpool, when they travelled abroad a couple of weeks ago, 14 of our supporters were stabbed by Italian fans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, there you are.
unidentified		And none of those obviously were hurt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By Italians, huh?
unidentified		My call, though, Arthur is about your newsletter, the After Dark newsletter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you get it there?
unidentified		No, I've tried to order it off the website, and it's only for Canadians and U.S. citizens, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They won't send it to England?
unidentified		Well, it doesn't give you the option.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm personally outraged.
		I'll check into it for you.
		Listen, I'll check into that for you, but you've got to answer one more question for me.
		Here in America, we're hearing an awful lot about mad cow disease there.
		And how big a deal is it in England right now?
		I mean, how scared are people of eating beef now?
unidentified		Not as much as they used to be about three or four years ago, when they first admitted humans can contract the disease.
		The last Conservative government used to say there's no chance a human can contract the disease off cattle.
		But it's obviously not true.
		People have died of it already.
		And basically, people were scared about three or four years ago when they stopped eating it.
		But I'm afraid they're eating it again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it wouldn't bother you one bit to go down and have a hamburger?
unidentified		Well, I don't eat hamburgers.
unidentified		I try to eat the best beef cuts that I can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, it bothers you a little bit?
unidentified		It does, of course, yeah.
unidentified		Um and I thought three or four years ago we were told on the news here that each person in the UK has probably eaten about at least 50 plates 50 meals containing PSE.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh my god.
unidentified		So if each person has eaten about 50 plates in an average lifespan so far, we're all gonna get it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I suppose the three or four years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the period of time that it takes for it to show up can be a very long period, right?
unidentified		Yeah.
		I mean I might have it now.
		Everyone might have it, but I'd be very worried about eating more of the junk type stuff like burgers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I can see that.
		Well, listen, I've complained.
		Unfortunately, listen, I'm out of time.
		I'm out of time.
		I really appreciate your call, and I hope you will call me again.
unidentified		Yeah, I will do, Alpam.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'll see what I can do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You watch the website, okay?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cheers.
		It seems very discriminatory not to allow people in Europe to order my newsletter, so we'll see what we can find out.
		Okay, Germany, Hong Kong, and now Liverpool, England.
unidentified		Not bad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's it, folks.
		We're out of time.
		I'm Art Bell from the High Deserts.
		That's it.

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