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Feb. 22, 2001 - Art Bell

02:51:15

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Jose Escamilla - Invisible Flying Creatures, Rods Revisited

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	Welcome to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 22nd, 2001.
	From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and or good morning wherever you may be across this great land of ours.
	From the Tahitian and Hawaiian Islands in the west, but now further west of Guam, east all the way to the U.S.
	Virgin Islands, In the Caribbean, South into South America, North definitely to the Pole, and worldwide on the Internet.
	This is Coast to Coast AM and I'm Art Bell.
	And this is going to be a very special night.
	Call a friend.
	Do whatever you've got to do because tonight we are going to prove to you, and I don't frequently use that word, we are going to prove to you that we coexist on this planet With other living creatures that are all around us.
	And again, you don't frequently hear me use the word prove or convince or present overwhelming evidence of something this strange, but we're going to do it tonight.
	We're going to convince you.
	We're going to provide overwhelming evidence.
	We are going to blow your mind.
	Some guy doesn't like the fact that I use that expression, so... Every time I do it, he sends me an email.
	I'm going to blow your mind!
	It's going to set her... We're going to give the website a big stress test tonight.
	We're going to put it up on a running belt and see how far it'll go.
	Because the proof is on the website.
	Jose Escamilla is going to be here in the next hour, and... Jose, over the years, has been a friend for a long time.
	Jose has done something that I think the scientists, and I mean the mainstream scientists that are listening tonight, had better pay attention to.
	So, if you're in mainstream science and you have an open mind, even a little bitty open mind, stick around.
	Because tonight, we're going to pry it open and we're going to prove to you That we coexist on this planet with another life form that nobody knows anything about, except all of you who are going to listen to this program.
	Jose Escamilla has been talking about rods for years now.
	Tonight on the website, we are presenting incontrovertible evidence that we're coexisting on the planet with another living form.
	Another life form.
	Another, perhaps even intelligent life form.
	We don't know.
	But the evidence is there in still photographs, new still photographs, I'm sure you've never seen.
	The evidence is there in, can I even count them?
	1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15.
	three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen.
	In about fifteen, if I count it correctly, and I might not have,
	moving videos in Real Audio and MPEG video, Proof.
	Moving video proof of rods.
	And I tell you, ladies and gentlemen, incontrovertible proof.
	This is not a minor claim to make.
	So, here's the deal.
	I don't know how the website's going to handle it all.
	We've got a pretty big pipe, so it may do all right.
	But before Jose gets here next hour, I want to start you up there right now and have you take a look.
	Number two, I have a really cool new t-shirt.
	You can see that on the webcam.
	Gotta see my new t-shirt.
	It really is very, very cool.
	Alright, having said that, number two, you're all gonna have to bear with me, because I'm coming down with a cold.
	It has been trying to get me for the last four days.
	You know how it is when, usually when I get a cold, I just, you know, I start sneezing and hacking, and then I go through the cycle.
	This one, this cold, or the flu, has been trying to get me for days now.
	Kind of on the edge, you know?
	It doesn't quite have me yet.
	But it's like saying, I'm gonna getcha.
	and it keeps going on a little more and more and more so I'm fighting a cold tonight, bear with me.
	Now let's go back to the night of February 22nd, 2001 on Arkbell, Somewhere in Time.
	Do you know what day it is?
	The environment close to me is of some interest tonight, because I just got an email today from the Radon Earthquake Predictor guy.
	This is a fellow that through the years has been flawless in his predictions.
	He does it by measuring the radon gas emissions from the wall of a well.
	And I don't know what else.
	See, my own computer's running.
	So, anyway, he has predicted, get this, folks, a 5.2 earthquake near Pahrump, Nevada.
	Oh, wonderful!
	Now, as you know, we've been having earthquakes, little ones, circling my area, and now he's saying 5.2 near us.
	Isn't that wonderful?
	Within 72 hours.
	And he's predicting a 5.5 earthquake in the Bay Area, Northern California, within 72 hours.
	So, not saying it's going to happen, just saying I've been following this fellow for years and years, and now I have officially registered his latest prediction.
	All right, now.
	NASA today I had a news conference, and now I guess we know something we didn't know before.
	We all thought the dinosaurs were destroyed by an asteroid, and I guess we still think that.
	But we know something new tonight.
	Asteroids crashing into Earth have virtually wiped out life, not once, but at least twice, scientists reported today.
	So, in other words, we used to think that it was just the dinos that went, right?
	Now they're saying they have evidence that it's happened before, at least twice now, they say.
	An asteroid or comet, reading the Reuters story here, roughly the same size as the one that wiped out the dinosaurs 65 million years ago, did even worse damage, lo and behold, 250 million years ago.
	This was published in Friday's issue of the journal Science.
	The evidence comes from space gases trapped in little carbon spheres called buckyballs in ancient layers of sediment.
	They show the Permian extinction event, which most species on the planet disappeared with, began with a big cosmic collision.
	The impact releases an amount of energy, get this, That is basically about, if you can even calculate this in your mind, one million times the largest earthquake recorded during the last century.
	One million times that size.
	Robert Perretta, Associate Professor of Earth and Environmental Sciences at the University of Rochester said all that.
	Said the comet or asteroid would have to have been, oh I don't know, somewhere between four and eight miles across.
	The jolt-roused volcanoes, which buried huge areas in lava, sent up ash to join the dust from the explosion to plunge the entire world into centuries of unnatural dark and cold.
	Trilobites, strange cockroach-like creatures that once ruled the planet, died out completely.
	It was all over for the trilobites.
	All 15,000 species of them.
	90% of all marine creatures and 70% of land vertebrates went extinct.
	So, is it really so hard, folks, to imagine that life may have come and gone on Earth many, many times?
	Many times.
	I'm going to read you an email And I'm telling you right off the top, this email is creepy.
	Creepy, I say.
	I want to talk to this gentleman.
	I'd like to put him on the air.
	He may not come on.
	We'll see.
	Art, I've been wanting to share this information with you for a long time now, but never sat down to write about it.
	In the late 1980s and early 90s, I was stationed at Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
	I was a nuclear weapons technician on what was known as Sandia Base, a weapons storage area.
	This was a mountain that was hollowed out for storage of thousands of nuclear weapons.
	On this mountain, there were four main Plants.
	Plant 3 and 4 was where we worked on the weapons.
	Plant 1 was for Sandia laboratory personnel and Plant 2 was something even more secret.
	Around and inside the mountain were an additional 122 bunkers that were used for storage.
	About 80 of them were used to store nuclear weapons and the others were Sandia labs.
	The whole mountain was surrounded with double electrified fences, underground sensors, plus a whole squadron of security police.
	I was stationed on this base for six years, and I've seen and heard a lot.
	One particular bit of information that you will find interesting is that nuclear weapons were classified a Priority A resource.
	Well, that means they were to be defended and protected at all costs.
	We were told by security police, though, that if terrorists were to attack the mountain and had gained entry into a bunker and had possession of a nuclear weapon, and that at the same time a second group of terrorists were trying to gain entry into Plant 1, then to let them have the nuclear weapons and protect Plant 2 with your lives.
	Plant 2 was off-limits for us normal military.
	We were never allowed inside.
	The entrance was guarded by elite security of an unknown organization, and they made sure we never got close.
	Every week or two, uh, every week, rather, two of us enlisted personnel were assigned on-call alarm support.
	That means it was our job to promptly arrive at the base after any alarms in those bunkers went off, which was quite often.
	And open the bunker for an alarm technician to find out what went wrong.
	More times than any, it was just a mouse that had set the alarm off.
	But with nuclear weapons being stored in these bunkers, it required two of us to open them, called the two-man rule.
	One time, during my turn at alarm support, I was called in at about 2 a.m.
	An alarm had gone off in one of the bunkers we never used for weapons storage.
	We had to get a special set of keys to open this bunker and security police came with us and stood guard outside with armed M-16s or armed with M-16s.
	I could tell by all the dirt buildup along the outer door and just inside that this bunker hadn't been opened in some time.
	We got both blast doors open and let the alarm technician in to see what was wrong.
	When we entered the main chamber, which was about 60 feet long, I noticed rows of what looked like lead coffins.
	They were about 8 feet long, and 3 feet wide, and 3 feet tall.
	There must have been 6 rows of them, and 4 deep.
	There was a fence separating us from these coffins, with warning signs not to enter.
	This gives you a little idea of what was going on at this base.
	Below, he says, are some links about the base and so forth and so on, but I thought that you all should hear that.
	What do you suppose would have been inside those lead coffins?
	I've been wondering about that all day long since I got the email.
	So if this man would like to call me, and I doubt, I kind of doubt he will.
	By the way, I think Keith is posting this on the website for you.
	I'll put him on the air.
	There's just, you know, I get a lot of emails.
	I mean, I really, I get maybe 2,000 a day, and it's hard to read them all, but I do my very best.
	I spend a lot of hours reading email, believe me.
	So I read as much as I can, but every now and then one comes along that strikes me as True.
	This one strikes me as true.
	And so I wonder what was in those coffins, and I wonder if this man will call me.
	You know, to get rid of this damn cold, I've got to admit it right now.
	Dr. Day, if you're listening, I would eat five lima beans right now to make this cold go away.
	So, Dr. Day, you're right.
	Once struck down, In one's relative youth, with a cold, why one would do nearly anything.
	I didn't say I'd chew the damn things, I'd swallow them whole, but I'd down five lima beans, which I have not done as an adult with choice.
	I no longer eat lima beans.
	You didn't hear last night's show, that might not mean much, but... One more thing.
	I got this email tonight and it worries me.
	Hello, Art.
	My name is... I'm not going to give the fellow's name.
	He put it here.
	And I work with Environment Canada.
	Atmospheric Environment Service.
	And you know, Art, I've got to say that the weather out here in Western Canada has been very, very strange.
	With little snow, but lots of sunshine, as it has been the second driest month of February on record.
	I don't know.
	It might have something to do with HAARP.
	Anyway, I'm wondering if you can send or tell me something or give me some information.
	A harp and the weather changes it can do.
	This is very interesting and it bothers me a little that somebody with this position working with Environment Canada Atmospheric Environmental Service would come to me to get information on why the weather is going wacky.
	If he's coming to me, we're really in trouble.
	By the way, I should have mentioned it a week ago, our sun has flipped.
	It has flipped polarities.
	You know, we have a sun cycle, and the flipping of the polarities is the marker indicating that we've reached the peak of the solar cycle.
	And conversely, when we get into the valley, when we get into the lowest point of the solar cycle, there is another polarity flip.
	And, uh, we head in the other direction.
	So we just flipped.
	The sun just flipped.
	Oh, and one little, uh, one more little thing, and then we'll start to take some calls here for, until we get to Hosea's Chameleon.
	God, I, I don't know how strongly I can tell you.
	Go to my website, www.artville.com.
	Go to the guest info and start watching all of these.
	Look at the still photos and then start watching the video presentations of Rod's by the time it's over.
	And by the time you've heard Jose, you will be given proof that we coexist on this planet with others with another life form.
	Intelligent or not, I think Jose can make the case they are.
	But you didn't know they were there, did you?
	These things that fly in our air, that swim in our air as a fish would swim in the sea.
	They're here.
	They've been here.
	And we just now know about them.
	And you'll believe that when you go through the various stills and moving videos.
	Now listen.
	The headline is, UK, United Kingdom biologist says, U.S.
	has bacteria which could kill all plant life.
	From Wellington, a Royal Commission investigating genetic modification was in uproar on Monday after a scientist claimed the United States had engineered a bacterium with the potential to kill all plant life on the planet.
	Yeah, you heard me right.
	But a group representing pro-genetic science groups has responded by claiming that American biologist Elaine Ingham had misrepresented her research.
	The Royal Commission on Genetic Modification has been hearing evidence in Wellington for about two months now.
	And earlier the Green Party called the Oregon State University soil biologist who told the commission that the engineered bacterium Dr. Ingram made outrageous and scientifically unsupported assertions.
	Ingram said the bacterium had gained American regulatory approval, then killed all the wheat plants it was added to, contributing to a conclusion that changing the Beneficial life in soil put the continued survival of humans at risk by affecting vital nutrients, water quality, and the ability to suppress disease.
	Maybe we should talk with Dr. Ingham, huh?
	Sounds like somebody I would like to interview.
	Anyway, there's a big argument about it, but this fellow basically is saying that the U.S.
	has this bacteria that could kill all Plant life, all the plant life on planet Earth.
	Well, what if it's true?
	What if we do have something that will do that?
	Something that will fill all the plant life on Earth.
	Hmm.
	I wonder where we got that, by the way.
	And incidentally, you might want to consider what Ed Dames had to say.
	About cows and children and milk.
	You remember all that?
	That so many people thought was so outrageous?
	And then consider this mad cow thing in light of what Ed Daines said way back when.
	Just think about it a little bit is all I'm saying.
	And then I run into this story about the U.S.
	having some sort of bacteria That could actually destroy all plant life on Earth.
	And think back to some of the things that Ed had to say.
	Pretty interesting stuff, isn't it?
	Tonight's going to be quite a night.
	You better get a jump on seeing what we've got on the website right now.
	Because it's going to get real busy up there.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 22nd, 2001.
	This is a replay of the song.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM, from February 22nd, 2001.
	Welcome to the program, those of you who joined at this hour.
	Anything is possible tonight, anything at all.
	Who knows?
	But then again, that's kind of the way I like it.
	Now let's go back to the night of February 22, 2001 on ArkBell, Somewhere in Time.
	I'm going to be playing a little bit of ArkBell.
	Let us see what awaits on the line, shall we?
	On the first time caller line, you are on the air.
	Cheerio.
	Hi, I'm Ark.
	Hi.
	Listen, you're going to have the rod guy on tonight?
	The rod guy?
	Yeah, that's Hosea Escamilla.
	Alright, well, now, I am a Urantia book student.
	Yes.
	And you have read the Urantia book?
	Yes, I have.
	And I have this philosophy about what the rods might mean.
	And that would be?
	That would be possibly mid-weighers.
	There are beings between angels and men and the higher celestials that are midwayers and they tend to the planet.
	Put it that way.
	They do maintenance.
	Spiritual maintenance.
	You know what?
	I don't know if I believe spiritual maintenance or not.
	But they're doing something.
	They're a definite life form.
	They definitely exist, coexist with us on the planet.
	I think Jose Escamilla has proven this.
	This is a big thing.
	I agree, I agree.
	Now, I also, I chat with one of your chat room folks and chat channels on IRC.
	Oh, yes.
	And one of the Nick's, you know, mentioned something that the rods look like kids' straws.
	You know how they're lumpy or something?
	I don't know.
	Kid's straws?
	I don't know what that means.
	No, I don't really buy into that.
	If you look at the rods, I suppose they might have a relationship to that shape.
	But clearly, they seem designed to do exactly what they're doing, and that is to move through our atmosphere like a fish would move in water.
	Exactly.
	It's not really flying that they're doing, but they're moving through this atmosphere.
	Oh, I'm sure they have a purpose.
	And what do you think their purpose is?
	It beats the hell out of me.
	But I mean, just knowing that something else is here.
	We'll ask Jose about what he believes their purpose might be.
	I sure don't know.
	Really, exactly.
	Please, R. Have you seen the stills?
	Have you seen the videos?
	I have seen them in the past.
	Before your recent reincarnation.
	Yeah, but this is new stuff, dear.
	Oh, okay.
	No, I have not seen those.
	No, no, this is new stuff.
	There's a whole bunch of moving videos up there.
	You've got to go see them.
	Well, I will.
	And, you know, please, the spiritual aspect, I think, is very important.
	I think that's jumping to conclusions.
	I appreciate the call, but I think you're leaping to conclusions.
	It's going to be hard enough to get people to believe their eyes and to believe the truth, that is, that they are here and they are around us right now.
	Rods are around you right now, if not possibly even going through you, although they may... We'll talk about that.
	But they're here.
	They are sharing this planet with us.
	And we can prove it.
	I don't want to leap off into complete empty space by talking about whether rods are spiritual or not.
	They may not have any more spiritual nature than a, you know, a bug you'd swat.
	Well, they may.
	But, you know, I don't want to jump off into that area yet.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello?
	Hello?
	Yes?
	Yes, you're on the air.
	Radio off.
	Voice up.
	Oh.
	Oh.
	Yeah, is this Art Bell?
	That would be me.
	Oh.
	How you doing?
	I'm okay, sir.
	Where are you?
	I'm calling from Garden Grove, California.
	Okay.
	My name's Al.
	And I have an experience with this plane, Rod.
	About 25 years ago.
	Me and some friends were, well, we were young back then.
	25 years ago?
	About 25 years ago.
	Yeah, we were all young back then.
	Compared to now.
	Yeah, we were doing some pot.
	Back in Mexicali.
	So you were stoned in Mexicali, right?
	Yeah, stoned in Mexicali.
	So that's the setup for this.
	All right, already your credibility is running up there at a high ten, but go ahead.
	Okay.
	And we were kind of stoned and we saw everything in slow motion, you know, like a friend of mine He had a beer and he dropped it.
	So, so, wait a minute now.
	Let's be sure we've got the setup straight.
	Now, you're not just stoned, but you're drinking beer too, right?
	Well, not me, but... He was drinking beer.
	Some other guy.
	So, you were just smoking a pot.
	He was smoking a pot and drinking beer.
	Yeah.
	Alright, and so what did he do?
	So, he dropped his beer and I saw the beads of the beer come out really slow, you know?
	I thought I can't...
	In slow motion, yes.
	In slow motion, right.
	After about 20 minutes, I saw this, what I thought were worms.
	They were flying just around us.
	Worms?
	Yeah.
	So you think that you were seeing rods?
	Yes, that's what I thought.
	Well, maybe you were seeing rods, but you've got to know that your little preamble here to how you saw them is going to cause a lot of people to say... I was hallucinating, right, yeah.
	I was zoned out.
	But here's the funny thing... No flying elephants, just rods.
	Just rods.
	The funny thing is that I thought I was hallucinating, and then my friend, Yeah.
	Who was also smoking pot.
	Yeah.
	Got up and he said, he said... The worms!
	The worms!
	No, he said, the snakes!
	The snakes!
	The snakes So at the moment you saw them, you thought, my God, those are the rods I saw?
	Those are the snakes he saw?
	Yeah.
	You know, a lot of people will not believe it because we were stoned.
	Now was there any relationship to how many hits of weed you had and how many rods you saw?
	No, not really.
	So once sufficiently stoned, you're saying that The door is open and it's Rod Mill.
	Well... Has that happened since?
	No, of course not.
	So it was a one-time thing?
	Yeah, it was a one-time thing.
	You mean the pot smoking or the seeing of the rods?
	The rods.
	I haven't smoked pot in about twenty years ago.
	Twenty years.
	Twenty-two years ago.
	Twenty-two.
	Well, in the three years that you still smoked, you never saw him again?
	Nah.
	Alright, well I certainly appreciate the Testimonial, and I'm sure that Jose will add that right on to his list of high proof regarding rods.
	You never know.
	You wouldn't take that one into a congressional hearing, you know, but it was kind of interesting on ballots.
	It really was kind of interesting.
	Even though I know a lot of you will say, yeah, right, sure.
	I'm surprised he didn't see elephants.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Thank you.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Um, I'm on the air right now.
	Yes.
	Extinguisher.
	Okay, let me turn my radio off.
	Good for you.
	Okay, it's off.
	Yes.
	Thank you.
	Um, I'm just listening.
	Um, the girl that just called in about the rod guy?
	Yes.
	Um.
	I think that was a guy.
	A guy?
	Okay, then I have to apologize.
	Are you talking about the fellow who was talking about smoking a joint?
	No, no, no.
	The one before that.
	Oh.
	The one before that.
	And I have to say, I've never done drugs or alcohol.
	Okay.
	But I've always seen the rods.
	What they're calling the rods, they're like an eighth of an inch, a quarter inch long.
	Well, that's subjective.
	At what distance?
	Right in front of your face.
	Right in front of your face.
	Yeah, I've seen these ever since I can remember.
	I call them prana.
	I call this the prana energy.
	This is the energy that we heal with.
	It's a healing energy.
	How do you know that?
	I mean, the last girl you spoke about was saying they were spiritual beings.
	Well, everything is spiritual and everything has consciousness.
	Not everything is spiritual.
	Well, everything has consciousness.
	Well, maybe.
	And everything originates in spirit.
	That's what I mean by spiritual.
	Everything originates in spirit before it manifests into the material.
	My old dirty white shoes here.
	There's nothing too spiritual about them.
	Yeah, but they used to be alive.
	Um, actually, I don't know about that.
	I don't know if these were alive.
	I don't think these were alive.
	Alive stuff, now dead, costs more.
	Isn't that ridiculous?
	Yeah, this is some kind of synthetic stuff.
	Oh, synthetic is man-made.
	That's from an oil.
	Most of the synthetics are made from oil.
	Way back when, perhaps dinosaur.
	Right, exactly.
	Spiritual dinosaur.
	My experience with what people are calling the rods, this is prana energy.
	It's a healing energy.
	You use your mind to direct it and focus it.
	As in prayer?
	Prayer is one way.
	Prayer and meditation are so closely related.
	You see what I'm talking about though.
	Maybe they are the things that respond to prayer?
	Yes.
	But I guess then why do they only sometimes respond to it if that's what they do?
	It's the receptivity of the individual.
	Some people are open to things and some people are not.
	And when they're mentally closed, they actually close down the body.
	They actually close down their receptivity.
	Alright.
	The big question for you would be how do you know that's what they are?
	You could say that it's an inner knowing and I've had experience working with this energy.
	Okay.
	Well, you could say that.
	Yeah.
	This is my reality.
	All right.
	Well, I honor your reality.
	What am I going to say?
	I don't know what the rods are.
	I can't go out on that kind of limb.
	I don't know that they're spiritual.
	I don't know that they're healing things.
	I don't know that there's some sort of, uh, they're not some sort of other dimensional insect.
	They're not a terrestrial insect.
	There's proof of that up there.
	See, that's another thing about rods.
	He's got, a lot of people say, okay, fine.
	It was an insect.
	Your camera operating at the speed and aperture setting and so forth and so on.
	It was an insect.
	Well, they've got proof up there that it's not an insect.
	They show an insect and then a rod and then an insect and a bird and then a rod.
	In moving video.
	Go take a look for yourself.
	I'm telling you, this is very, very convincing stuff.
	On the international line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, hello.
	How are you doing?
	I'm okay, sir.
	Where are you?
	I'm actually in Ontario.
	Ontario.
	All right.
	Yeah.
	Oh, turn your radio off.
	Yeah, I'm sorry.
	Turn the radio off.
	Or it'll confuse you and you'll sound strange on the radio.
	Yeah, fair enough.
	I was just actually...
	That's what I'm kind of confused about.
	I've just been reading about certain issues with that relating to a software that was created by a gentleman in the United States, I believe.
	What does the software do?
	Well, it's actually, it's relative to, um, just trying to think of...
	I've tried real hard.
	It's relative.
	What does the software do?
	What does it do?
	Yes, what does it do?
	What doesn't it do?
	It's in various functions of dabbling and everything.
	I wasn't actually surprised I got through because I've been trying for... Various functions of dabbling.
	Politicians give better answers than that.
	Yeah, I know.
	I understand.
	I wasn't actually the person that wanted to talk about the issue.
	I'm just relaying.
	Do you know who you are?
	Do I know who I am?
	Yes.
	Very briefly.
	I haven't answered one of the primary questions of reality yet.
	Well, then, when you come to grips with who you are, then you can talk to all of us, because it doesn't sound like you've come to grips with who you are, much less what it is, whatever it is you were talking about there.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Yeah, hi, Eric.
	Hi.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	Yeah.
	I was wondering if you got an email from me earlier in the week.
	I live in Sarasota and listen to you on 790 WFLA and I emailed you about the skunk ape.
	Okay, I got about 2,000 emails or 3,000 maybe or 4,000 on the skunk ape.
	Okay, I got about 2,000 emails or 3,000 maybe or 4,000 on the skunk ape. Yeah, well
	What did you say about it?
	My boyfriend and I were staying out by my acker which was well it is out east of Sarasota
	Right.
	And we were staying in one of those old aluminum trailers.
	Right.
	And something about three o'clock in the morning, tore down about ten feet of fence, jumped on top of the trailer, dented it.
	Ran the whole length of it and took off.
	It was making grunting, squealing kind of noises.
	So you're thinking you had a close encounter of the skunk ape kind?
	Oh yeah.
	Why do you think it would jump up on top of your trailer?
	Now that would freak anybody out big time.
	Why would it do that?
	I don't know.
	That's what I kind of wondered because we've had that story of the skunk apes around here for a long time
	at least 20-30 years that I've heard of and the well you know sometimes when you got a box and you've
	got a content you want to eat something and it just won't come
	out and you turn the box upside down and you shake it trying to get it out
	Maybe.
	I hope that's not what I was trying to do.
	Maybe it was trying to get you to run out of the box, you know?
	But I had to laugh.
	Oh, no, we didn't.
	No, not till morning.
	I was kind of laughing about what you said about all the Bubbas running around with their guns.
	Uh, yeah, going, trying to hunt down a skunk ape, bring one home.
	Yeah, well, my husband and his brother and friends.
	Don't tell me.
	They were going to do it.
	No, they used to go hunting out that way in deer season.
	Listen, I've got to run.
	I appreciate your call, but this half hour is ending.
	I wish I had more time with you.
	Try and call me again and get through, alright?
	Well, when it came down to it, it scared them.
	And they left.
	I don't blame them a bit.
	You have a good night.
	You too.
	Take care.
	Close encounter of the skunk ape kind.
	Alright, coming up... It'll blow your mind.
	Another email comes my way.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM, from February 22nd, 2001.
	And never see you when you put me, put me in my way.
	Well, here's a Polka Mute.
	You're gonna choke on it too.
	You're gonna lose that smile.
	Because all the while... I could see for miles and miles.
	I could see for miles and miles.
	For miles and miles and miles and miles and miles Oh yeah
	You took advantage of my trust in you when I was so far away
	you For worldwide humiliation.
	Oh, the night is power City lights paint the sky In the day, nothing matters It's the night, time that
	matters In the night, no control Through the wall, something's
	breaking Wearing white as you're walking Down the street, our
	thoughts all move You take myself, you take myself control You got me living
	only for the night Before the morning comes, the story's told You take
	yourself, you take myself control Another night, another day goes by I never stop myself to
	wonder why You have to forget to play my part
	It's a good thing.
	Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired February 22, 2001.
	As sure as I know that I'm a creature of the night, I know that we share this world of ours with other creatures that you don't know anything about.
	Tonight is going to be a mind-expanding experience for you.
	If there are legitimate scientists out there of whatever discipline, then I suggest you open your minds a little crack further, and we will prove to you, before the night is over, that we share this planet with another life force.
	I don't know what they are.
	They're called Rods.
	Jose Escamilla, who I believe is the Discoverer of rods calls them rods, and so probably he could have called them Escamillos.
	But he calls them rods.
	You can't see them, but occasionally.
	Man last hour who had smoked some pot said he saw them.
	But we have incontrovertible video And still photography tonight that will prove to you that in fact the rods are here.
	They are some kind of life form.
	They live in our atmosphere much as a fish lives in water with some distinct differences.
	They may be intelligent or not.
	That's something we'll ask about.
	But one thing's for sure, they are here, and we've got the proof on the website right now.
	We're going to be discussing it, so I suggest you merge with us.
	The way you do that is go to www.artbell.com, if you have a computer.
	You go to click on program and then tonight's guest info.
	You will see the name Jose Escamilla.
	Below it you will see three links.
	The first of which says photos and videos of rods.
	When you click on that you will see a large number of very very impressive still photographs of rods and we're going to talk about those.
	And then you will see a whole bunch of real video clips and MPEG video clips.
	And by the time you've made it through those, and we're going to talk about them singly here in a moment, if you don't believe, as we believe, and I say we, as in Jose and myself, I don't often say that I think we've got incontrovertible evidence of something, but here I think we do, Don't hear me say that very frequently.
	This is an important program, and this is an important subject, and I would like some legitimate scientists to kind of move along with us through the night.
	You're welcome to do it as well.
	It will blow your mind.
	I have one listener who hates it when I say that, so I'm trying to use it as often as I can.
	Now, All of that is coming up and information about Jose himself, but start up to the website right now and begin to get a look.
	We'll describe to you what you're seeing, although you probably don't need that.
	You'll be amazed at what you're seeing.
	To imagine that we coexist with another life form on the planet, right now, and that they're all around you, possibly even going through you, right now.
	A whole other life form.
	That's kind of a revelation, isn't it?
	We'll be right back.
	back.
	Now let's go back to the night of February 22, 2001 on Arkbell, Somewhere in Time.
	Now comes Hosea's Chameleon.
	By the way, folks, again, bear with me.
	I've got a... I'm getting a cold.
	It's been trying to get me now for four days, so just bear with me.
	Producer-director Jose Escamilla has been editing film and video for over 17 years.
	Video productions and release nationwide include L.A.
	Gang Violence, a documentary about L.A.
	gangs, and Donny the Educational Dinosaur, a cartoon series starring There's too much to read here about Jose.
	He's 40 years old.
	Born in Denver, Colorado.
	Kathy Ireland, no kidding, Ed Begley Jr., Dr. Joyce Brothers, Tom Bosley, Carlos Palmino,
	and Nell Carter. Wow. There's too much to read here about Jose. He's 40 years old, born
	in Denver, Colorado, has a strong physical science background. He attended Texas A&M
	University as a geology major.
	After marrying and becoming a father, James joined the Medical Corps of the U.S.
	Army as a preventive medicine specialist, whose mission is the prevention of disease and non-battle-related injuries.
	Completed training at the top of his class as an honor graduate.
	Courses included entomology training for the capture, identification, and control of disease-carrying and venomous... arthropods, really?
	Stationed at Fort Lewis, Washington, he completed the Nuclear Biological and Chemical Warfare course as he enlisted honor graduate and became the NBC non-commissioned officer NCO for his unit, which was 105th Medical Detachment.
	62nd Medical Group supported operations of the 1990 Team Spirit training maneuvers in Korea before he left active duty to be a single dad for his daughter after his split with his wife.
	Returned active duty for Operation Desert Shield.
	Eventually was assigned to the Army Environmental Health Agency to support their engineering division as an engineering technician and industrial hygiene technician.
	And it just goes on and I've got pages and pages and pages of what this man has done.
	But I think perhaps his most significant work has been rods.
	That's what you're going to hear about tonight.
	Another life form that co-exists with us on this planet.
	One that you cannot see.
	Well, tonight you're gonna see it.
	It's on my website now.
	So you'd better get started up there right now.
	www.artbell.com Click on Guest Information.
	Then, uh, let's see.
	Let's be sure I tell you correctly.
	Click on Program first.
	And then click on, um, Tonight's guest info, and you will see Jose Escamilla's name.
	It says related info right below that.
	Click on photos and videos of rods, and then you'll be in the right place.
	Jose, welcome to the program.
	Hey Art, it's good to be back, man.
	It's great to have you back.
	Jose, where are you right now?
	I'm in Studio City, California.
	Studio City, California.
	All right.
	Where in your career, and you sent me a total of actually printed as three pages, Jose, everything I was thinking of reading about you, there's a lot here.
	Well, you know, I must apologize, Art, I forgot to put, you know, the video production stuff and all the stuff that I've done as a producer, that's my stuff.
	The second part of the army and the marriage and all that, that's my partner Jim Peters.
	Oh.
	My partner in crime, man.
	He's the second Rod man that's here with me tonight.
	He's actually there with you tonight?
	Yeah, yeah.
	He's going to be on the show with me, if you don't mind, man.
	No, I don't mind.
	We're a team, man.
	We're the Rod team.
	All right.
	Jim's the guy that's done all the studies, man.
	Environmental studies and things like that.
	So he's really helped me.
	All right, James A. Peters.
	When did James get involved?
	He got involved with me in 1995 when I moved to Denver.
	And he was the assistant state director at that time for Colorado Mufon.
	And when you heard that I had moved to town, he came in and his quest was to try to find out if I was full of crap or if I had something that was legitimate.
	Well, you know, Jose, when you first came out with the Rods thing, You didn't have the kind of evidence to lay on the table that you have now.
	That's true.
	And, you know, you had a little something, but you had nowhere near what you have right now.
	Right.
	And so I'm sure there have been a number of people like James who have come to you, and as a result of the show tonight, will come to you and will want to begin a very serious investigation That's what really helped me was he came in and helped me evaluate things in a different perspective than what I was doing.
	You know, when you get too close to the work, you overlook certain things, especially logistics, you know?
	And he came in with that kind of persona, and we both got together, and man, we've been together now for like six years since then, you know?
	And it's been a great journey.
	All right.
	Well, you had not mentioned to me James was going to be with us tonight, but that's quite all right.
	Alright, well he's here.
	I'm happy to have his input.
	How did you discover R.O.D.S., Jose?
	Well, right after the Northridge Earthquake, I went back to Roswell, New Mexico.
	I grew up in New Mexico.
	I grew up in Roswell, and I went back home to see my mom after the Northridge Earthquake occurred here.
	On March 5, 1994, I had a UFO encounter.
	I videotaped 16 minutes of video that were shot about 9 miles south of Roswell, near the Air Base, the former Walker Air Force Base.
	And after that, I went back on the 19th of March and was kind of just doing a little pseudo-documentary of what I documented on the 5th of March.
	And on March 19th, I saw something that flew right over me in the viewfinder.
	I saw it, and you can hear me say, that's an insect, that's a bird, that's an insect.
	Well, when I looked at the stuff in slow motion, you know, as an editor, I look for things, especially in those days, I was looking for UFOs.
	I saw this thing, it looked like a snake, came from across the road and flew right over me.
	And it was what I thought was All right, now you saw this in the viewfinder.
	That's kind of interesting.
	You saw it and you were using what kind of camera?
	At that time it was an RCA CCD camera, VHS, and it shot... I had one of those.
	Okay, I had one of those.
	Yeah, I know what you were using.
	All right.
	Yeah, and it shot at a high shutter setting, which is unique in filming these things.
	At that time it shot at one 2000 shutter setting, which allowed us to, you know, see whether we're filming insects, birds, or rod.
	And man, it just freaked me out.
	And it became a phenomenon that really struck me as being different.
	I mean, as an editor, I've seen all sorts of insects on film and video.
	But that's what I think might be the opposite.
	Yeah, you saw it in the viewfinder.
	Now, if you'd seen it in the finished video and had not noticed it in the viewfinder,
	you probably would have dismissed it, huh?
	Yes, as a matter of fact, at first I said, well, you know, it's just insects.
	You know, until I slowed the action down, and I saw an insect pass by, and I saw a bird pass by, and then I saw one of these things pass by, and I go, wait a minute, that's not an insect.
	It's something else.
	And from there on, I started investigating, and I did camera tests to make sure I wasn't, you know, fooling myself.
	If I release anything to the public and sure enough it's gotten us to where we are today.
	We've come up with some incredible footage that exists all over the world.
	These things are all over.
	I think that you have incontrovertible proof that they are there.
	Most evidently.
	And we're going to get to that here shortly.
	What, Jose, is your best guess about what a rod is?
	I think it's a life form, a creature per se, that's existed among us for perhaps over thousands of years that we just never noticed them before.
	They've managed to evolve into what they are today.
	For whatever reason they're here, where they came from, what they're doing here, we have no idea, but for whatever reason They've evolved into a type of creature that we just don't even notice them.
	Do you think they have evolved?
	Or do you think that they have always been as they are?
	I think there's been a little case of evolution here.
	As we'll discuss later on, we've come up with what may be a theoretical evidence of what rods might have evolved from.
	We have found that rods enter the water, enter the ocean, they emerge out of the ocean.
	We've got footage to that extent.
	We definitely think we're on to something here that's been among us and is as evasive as they can be.
	They've managed to just be under our noses.
	We just never thought about them before.
	You know?
	One of the things that, you know, earlier you had some people that were calling this, you know, we're talking about prana energy and things like this.
	Yes, healing energy.
	That's a higher state of consciousness, you know, and I, you know, I can't say these things are spiritual because we don't have evidence for that.
	What these things display Are that they are definitely a living creature of some kind of living, living life form, I would like to say.
	That's, believe me, more than enough of a burden to prove all day without trying to jump further.
	And that's that's what I told the young lady.
	Exactly.
	I mean, we could have taken it.
	As a matter of fact, early on in one of your first shows, I thought they were interdimensional things, you know, coming in.
	And who's not to say they are not?
	It's just that in order for us to prove that, we have to come up with that kind of evidence.
	And, you know, we've grown We try to present the materials in a more of a logical sense and scientific manner where when we tell you this is a rod, that's a bird, that's an insect, we can definitely prove that.
	I noticed some of the videos that you sent along have audio with them.
	Mm-hmm.
	So somebody's doing some serious production work over there.
	That must be you.
	Indubitably.
	Yeah, we take time and make sure that people get to see the effect and see what these things really look like.
	And we give a little bit of a description.
	And I really thank you for putting those videos up there.
	Well, we've got a lot of bandwidth.
	And I think we can probably serve everybody who comes up.
	I hope so, anyway.
	I'm looking at the still photographs right now, the first four, and they're showing you with a group of people in the upper left-hand corner.
	Okay, that was a shot that was taken by the Learning Channel.
	The Learning Channel did a nine-minute segment on the Rods back in 1999, and they were filming a total different segment than what they were doing on us.
	They were at the Oregon Vortex, and what that is on the upper left-hand corner It's some kids that are rolling a ball down this plank, because this place is a vortex where it defies gravity, that kind of thing, and they accidentally captured a rod whizzed by the camera, and they didn't notice that the editor picked it up when they were editing the segment for that particular show.
	He says, guess what, guys?
	We got a rod at the Oregon Vortex.
	Are you telling me that this single photograph of a rod next to it is that The Learning Channel got that?
	Yeah, yeah.
	You're kidding!
	Yeah, that was produced over at the Oregon Vortex.
	They caught it, and the editor picked it up, and the producers go, Jose, we got a rod.
	Total separate circumstances.
	I'm curious.
	They must have, you know, they're objective people, Learning Channel people, and they capture this themselves.
	What did they say when they looked at this?
	How would you describe this creature?
	I would say that it's a soft-bodied creature of some kind that just has a way of Swimming through the air.
	As you said earlier, you know, it has this undulatory wave action that's, uh, you know, with its spin action that it allows it.
	It's so light bodied that it swims through the air, you know, rather than flying.
	And, uh, they were blown away, man.
	They just said, dude, I'm sure they were.
	Uh, so you, you believe it swims through the atmosphere.
	An interesting term.
	That is the way it moves.
	That's the kind of movement that we've seen the behavior on, you know, the way they fly.
	Or swim.
	You know, I call them sky fish.
	Sky fish.
	Aside from rods.
	But they seem to have this movement, total different from insects, where they appear to just glide or swim.
	I mean, it's an amazing phenomenon.
	Well, this particular one, Jose, how fast might something like this be swimming in our atmosphere?
	We're looking at rods flying or swimming at anywhere from 65 maybe to about 200 or 300 miles an hour.
	That's fast.
	Yeah, that's very fast.
	We've got some tank footage, man, taken by a military photographer out of Sweden.
	And this tank is firing these shells.
	It's a rapid-fire tank.
	And before the shell casings hit the ground, two rods fly right past the tank.
	And they're pretty good-sized rods, maybe about three or four feet long.
	Before the shell hit the ground, and this is a matter of seconds, I'm talking three
	or four seconds, these shell casings arc and then they finally hit the ground.
	This roger zips through, as if it was maybe chasing the shell.
	Through as in under the shell casing, between the shell casing and the ground?
	Yes.
	Incredible shot.
	And that was shot with, that's military footage, man.
	I had nothing to do with it.
	Do you have that one up there tonight?
	No I don't.
	I thought I had sent all of my clips, but obviously I didn't.
	I should have sent that one.
	All right, well I certainly believe it in view of what else is up there.
	Yeah.
	But are there as many different, how many different varieties of rods have you seen?
	So far we've encountered three.
	Three different kind of... Three different styles.
	The ones that you're seeing on that, you know, the four pictures there, those are The typical rods that have the undulatory wave membranes along both sides of the torso.
	Alright, hold it right there.
	He's right.
	Take a look at this.
	You'll see it on both sides of the torso, and you'll see how it moves.
	Not why it moves, but definitely how it moves.
	These are creatures living among us, right now.
	Go to my website, and you will believe.
	I'm Art Bell.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 22, 2001.
	Come walk with me.
	Come walk with me, going down the dead way Jenny was sweet
	She always smiled for the people she'd meet.
	On troubled drives.
	I don't know the way you look in life Music blues, blues
	Music blues, blues Music
	Music You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM, from February 22nd, 2001.
	Well, if we're just now finding out, and can prove, that another... another life form coexists with us on the planet, a life form we cannot quite see, or we see only sometimes.
	If we're going to prove that to you tonight, and we are, Then what else might there be that we don't know about?
	the possibilities are endless you're listening to our bills somewhere in time
	on premier radio networks Tonight, an encore presentation of Coaster Coast AM from
	February 22, 2001.
	Now, you may have seen rods.
	You may even see rods.
	I don't know.
	I think that I've seen rods, and I'll tell you how.
	Aside from the incontrovertible video proof that we have on my website right now, have you ever seen in the corner of your eye, in a quick movement, do you detect a movement in the, you know, out of the corner of your eye, just a real flash of a movement out of the corner of your eye?
	Jose, could those be rods?
	So, that's the way you see them.
	That's the way they've always appeared to me, too.
	When I see with the naked eye, it's like a flash, or something that just zipped in front of me, man, and you look and there's nothing there.
	I see it mostly in my peripheral vision, and kind of when I'm moving, and all of a sudden I sense motion, and I look over there and there's nothing.
	Yeah, and once you get used to the thought that, and I say this carefully, once you get used to the thought that these things exist, you'll see them.
	You know the people that were talking about the prana and the higher consciousness, you know,
	once you open up that there's something there, then you'll definitely see things, you know,
	and you don't need marijuana, you know. Yes, I know. I mean, you know, one of the things about
	that is that Mexicali happens to be a hotbed for rod activity. I mean, we've got one of the shots
	that you have on your website is a little boy where a rod flies right around him, you know.
	Well, let's take these one at a time.
	First of all, leaving this one, the Learning Channel got this.
	Yeah.
	And I'm sure that they probably had no idea what to make of it.
	Did they think it might be an insect?
	No, because they had done a segment on the rod.
	They've seen the evidence.
	And they did a nine-minute segment on us.
	And it's still playing.
	Now it's playing on Discovery Channel.
	But Learning Channel played the same segment.
	of the rods for a whole year and now it's going on two years.
	Now it's airing on Learning Channel and Discovery Channel.
	So there's definitely major interest in their show there, you know?
	Yes.
	Now, you've done something tonight that we have not done much in the past, and that is you put up how many video clips?
	God, how many is it?
	About twelve?
	Yeah, at least twelve video clips.
	Now, the one big criticism that most people make Is that, well, maybe rods are either birds or insects, and it's a natural assumption to jump to when you're first saying, what the hell is this?
	Exactly.
	That's the first assumption I made.
	So then, we've got one here, a real video, called Insect Bird Rod Comparisons, right?
	Exactly.
	There's two birds that fly by, and then you see a rod pass by in two frames.
	There's a big distinction between birds and rods.
	And you can definitely see the difference when you look at that clip.
	So that discounts the bird theory.
	It shows you a bird, it shows you an insect, it shows you a bird, and it shows you a rod.
	Exactly.
	And the rod... Pretty good sized rod.
	Yeah, I'm sitting here looking at this rod.
	If you assume, and I guess we shouldn't assume, should we?
	Is there any way to tell how far from the camera That rod is.
	That thing, I think, see, you're looking at a rooftop there, and if you can count the frames, and see, I slow it down to about five frames per second, so you can see the wing flaps of the birds, and it's in slow motion.
	Right.
	The time it takes for the birds to cross the screen, this rod does it in two frames of video, which is less than, uh, two-thirtieths of a second.
	So, uh, that thing, I would say it was probably about four or five feet long.
	Four or five feet long?
	Yeah.
	That's a pretty damn big rod.
	I thought they were small, but that's pretty big.
	That's a pretty good sized object to pass by, yeah.
	Yeah, it sure is.
	Do rods have mass?
	Yes, they do.
	And that's displayed.
	God, there's a shot here, man, that you've got.
	We're going to go through these one at a time.
	The next shot, as a matter of fact, right after the bird rod comparison.
	All right, fine.
	The base jumper, the rod has the tail in sunlight.
	Okay, now, this is the cave in... Let me take a look at that, hold on.
	Okay, I'm seeing somebody falling in free space.
	Right, it's a base jumper that's jumping off the rim of a pit.
	Oh, I see the rod!
	Northern Mexico, yeah.
	I see the rod going by.
	Exactly, and what's unique about this is in the last frame, you're going to see the tail, small tail section of the rod is still in sunlight.
	Well, most of the torso is being shadowed by the rim of the cave.
	Oh, you're exactly right.
	So the rod is moving through the sunlight into the shadow.
	Yeah.
	And part of the tail... Oh my goodness.
	Oh my goodness.
	Bruce McAbee looked at that footage and he felt that the rod was probably about, what did he say, about four, five feet long?
	Yeah, it's about four or five feet long.
	Now, this is something new.
	The last time you and I talked, you had no idea rods were that big.
	No, we were still getting footage, and we hadn't gotten the computer equipment to do much more analysis, and now we've got that.
	Man, I'm telling you, we're learning more things about these things.
	Jose, with the rod going through the sunlight and into the shadow, that begins to rule out an awful lot of photographic anomaly-type arguments, doesn't it?
	I mean, if an insect presses by the camera lens real fast, real close, I mean, it's not going to create a shadow like that.
	You're just going to see a dark blur.
	Listen, clearly, you can see both things are in focus, man.
	That rod is coming from sunlight, going into the shadows.
	Yes, oh, it definitely is.
	I'm watching this one again, and there goes the guy falling.
	He's actually, he's doing what?
	He's jumping in a... Base jumping into this hole, which is 1,250 feet deep.
	He's crazy as a loon.
	Yeah.
	But there goes that rod right by him, so that gives you, if you can make an assumption.
	Now figure this guy's jumping in, he's falling in at about 90 miles an hour, so his body barely moves and the rod scales that distance.
	So you can make what assumption then about the rod speed based on that?
	it's going a hell of a lot faster than the base jumper going down
	so it's going pretty fast oh brother
	yeah uh...
	how does that go to suggesting though that iran has actual mass
	Well, the mass of the rod, I mean, you have to figure, you know, if the sunlight can, if the shadow can overshadow most of the torso, you know, it's definitely got mass.
	I mean, We've got footage of them going in the ocean.
	If it's that big, if it's four feet long, let's say, this is so convincing, then how can we not see it?
	In other words, how can we not see it with normal vision?
	Now, I can see them in the manner occasionally that I talked about, but that's sort of out of the corner of your eye.
	Did I really see that kind of thing?
	I know that's what I'm seeing, but What if it's that big?
	How are our eyes not able to see it, but a camera can?
	Well, our brain cancels out a lot of stuff.
	We're not looking for this.
	I've seen them.
	I've seen big ones, man.
	big. I've seen them with the naked eye, it's just that I'm used to seeing them.
	By now you're probably dreaming about rods.
	All the time, man.
	I knew it. I knew it. You can't work with this stuff day after day after day.
	You get to where you see them all the time and you go, man, people are just walking and
	driving around the streets and not looking up, man. There's something that just flew
	over the guy's head. And it was pretty good size from my point of view.
	So, uh... How do rods interact with human beings?
	Do they appear to interact and want to do that, or...?
	Yes, they do.
	We've got shots of these base jumpers jumping into the cave.
	We have one shot in a video that I produced, Smoking Gun Evidence, that the guy's jumping into this cave and a rod goes right to him and then avoids contact.
	And then we have one... You have a clip on your video page here.
	At the bottom it says, uh, rod circling man.
	Uh, actually that's a little boy.
	This rod goes around the kid's torso, uh, you know, around his waist and comes back towards the camera.
	And you can see the thickness of this rod as it goes around his waist.
	I mean, it's as wide, um, wide around as the little guy's, uh, pistol that he's wearing.
	So then obviously that indicates that They interact.
	That a rod can see us and is very well aware of our presence, even though we're not of its.
	Exactly.
	And they see us probably in slow motion, you know?
	Oh, that's true.
	In fact, perhaps to a rod, unless we happen to be jumping off a cliff, and then a rod might notice, particularly notice us, because we're moving relatively fast.
	Otherwise, to a rod, we're almost An inanimate object?
	Yeah, we're like a big monolith that is circling around or something, you know?
	We have a shot that's called Free Falling with a Rod.
	It's an MPEG video towards the bottom of the page.
	That one is one of the most incredible shots of a rod ever.
	It was taken by Fox TV and Channel 13.
	Well, see, now you're going to make me jump all around.
	I'm sorry, but... That's right.
	Which one?
	It's called Man...
	Uh, let me see.
	Free-falling with a rod.
	Alright.
	Uh, it's an MPEG video, so I'm gonna have to bring that up.
	Sorry about that, but... It's alright.
	Talk about interacting.
	This guy is falling into the cave.
	Right now, he's doing about 120 miles an hour, which is called terminal velocity.
	Right.
	The guy's falling straight down.
	As you see in the background, the camera's following him, and the background's a complete blur.
	Then you have this rod that comes in, and not only falls straight down with him, but also travels in a direct path.
	Makes a U-turn and goes back where it came from, all at the same time, falling straight down at about 120 miles an hour.
	And it keeps its... Oh, alright.
	Oh, hold on.
	I just finally got loaded here, so I think I can watch it now.
	The most incredible shot.
	That's the most incredible shot we have yet of a rod.
	And that was taken by Fox TV.
	It was used by Channel 13 News recently.
	Alright, I'm buffering.
	I think we're starting to get challenged for bandwidth.
	I could be wrong, but it's taking a while to buffer here.
	I really want to see this.
	That shot, I'm telling you, that... Oh, here it is, here it is.
	Okay, so there's the guy falling.
	I saw a rod go by him.
	Underneath.
	Under... let me see this one more time here.
	Underneath him, huh?
	Uh-huh.
	And you see where the emblem is for Channel 13 News?
	Right around there, it makes a U-turn and goes back where it came from.
	But you have to see the picture.
	The guy and the camera is tilting straight down. Everything's a blur in the
	background.
	Both the rod and, you know, the jumper are in focus.
	But the thing is, the guy's going straight down. The rod is falling straight down with him,
	yet traveling in a path makes a U-turn and goes back.
	There is no creature in the world that can do that.
	What kind of interaction does that mean the rod is doing?
	Is it being playful?
	Is it just being curious that something else is moving very fast?
	I think it's probably showing off for the camera and saying, look what I can do.
	I'm serious.
	That's the most incredible shot ever.
	Now, wait a minute, Jose.
	If you think it's showing off for the camera, that implies a pretty Well, in a playful way.
	You know, dolphins come up and bump swimmers and they swim circles around people, you know.
	Maybe that's his way of, you know, it's free flight, man.
	It's just reacting to this guy.
	And when the base shippers go to this particular pit, which is in northern Mexico, There's tons of rods that fly around them, man.
	And, you know, maybe it's just a... Well, you know, I think the reason for this is because of the speed of the jumpers.
	Yeah.
	I really think we're on to something there.
	In other words, normally, to a rod, we're probably like a pillar of salt.
	Exactly.
	Not moving at all.
	But when we're going at terminal velocity, we're getting into rod country.
	Yeah.
	And the high velocity area.
	So they're looking at, well, let's see what this thing is.
	I've never seen that before.
	Well, back to the question of intelligence.
	it's a much it's an amazing shot and i'm really happy with that job because
	that eliminates any kind of creature they can do that you won't see a bird or
	swallow or anything that they can do that kind of maneuver that i know of anyway
	all right back to the question of intelligence or what are you able to
	uh... attribute Do they, for example, do they ever go through people?
	Do they go through... You said they went into the ocean.
	Right.
	Do they go into the ground?
	Yeah, well, they appear to go into the ground, but I think they level out.
	I used to think they went into the ground, came out of the ground many years ago, but after looking at the footage now, there's a different, you know, logic behind it.
	Yeah, they appear to enter the ground, solid ground, but they don't.
	I don't think they do.
	However, the ocean shots, and talk about mass, When they jump in the ocean and they fall in, they leave a bubble trail.
	What?
	They leave a bubble trail when they enter the ocean.
	We have footage from National Geographic that we're still working on licensing that shows a rod entering from the sky.
	They're shooting, it's an underwater camera shooting upward at this little turtle.
	You can see the top of the ocean and you see a rod, a white rod, coming in in the sky.
	You can see it when it hits the water.
	It breaks water and leaves a bubble trail and instead of slowing down, it accelerates Just as fast as it was in the sky.
	You're kidding.
	So that denotes that they do have some kind of mass to be able to break water.
	Well, actually, in a way, it argues against it.
	If they have some sort of mass, then according to the laws of physics, they should move or could move in the water, but wouldn't they move slower in the water than in the air?
	The answer is no, huh?
	No, when I talked to Dr. Jack Cashier, he's a professor of physics in Nebraska, he said, Jose, this puts it in a totally different realm.
	There's no such thing that can do that, you know?
	So, we don't know what we're dealing with.
	We just know that it's a type of creature, man, or a life form that has the ability to traverse both mediums, both liquid mediums, the water and the atmosphere, and nothing slows them down, man.
	They just zip in, zip out, man.
	So, it's an incredible life form.
	You know, where they come from, we don't know.
	Who knows, you know?
	Who knows what these things really are?
	Have you ever seen a rod do anything Heroic.
	I mean, in some interaction with a human being, is there any indication that they care about us at all, other than we're just sort of something that moves very, very slowly and is not to be thought of as anything special?
	No, I haven't, but I did see a shot, and you know, the network in northern Oregon has not released the footage to me, but I saw this, man.
	It's a football game.
	Where this rod flies in along the field.
	The guy throws a football.
	And there's a referee running alongside the guy that's going to catch the ball.
	Yep.
	Thank you.
	And this rod flies through and hits the referee and he reacts.
	Really?
	Yeah, he reacts.
	And then you can see what appears to be like a water substance hit the ground.
	Well, I've seen a lot of really bad calls, Jose.
	No, this was... And that might could account for it.
	A referee getting hit by a rod.
	This is from a broadcast camera call.
	Broadcast camera.
	And the thing appears to hit the ref and he reacts, man.
	And it looks like something just exploded and water hit the ground, but it was definitely a rod.
	And it might have been the first rod human collision.
	And the camera man that shot it, you know, the network does not want to give me the footage yet.
	Now, listen, here we are.
	Here we are.
	Yet again, we're talking about rapid movement relative to usual human activity.
	A pass is being made, the ref is running to see if it's going to be a completion or not, and the rod hits the referee!
	Again, motion.
	So the rods are probably interested when we move fast.
	Yeah, or sound.
	You know the tank that's firing those rapid shells?
	We have other footage that the Swedes sent me, military footage, Every time they fire these shells, you see rods just go towards where the shell went.
	Well, you know what you need?
	You need John Madden, is what you need, with his telestrator.
	Usually John is up there drawing circles around himself, and you see John drawing a circle around the rod.
	You see guys going down to the pass, and there he goes down to the pass, and look at the referees run along there, and look at this rod, and you draw a circle around the rod.
	This rod has hit the referee.
	Obviously, that's why he had a bad call, because of the rod hit the referee.
	And what seems to happen to the rod when it hits the referee?
	Does it recoil?
	Hey, the guy made the play, man.
	I know, but does the rod recoil a little bit when it collides with the referee?
	No, it looks like it was disintegrated.
	It looks like it hit... It committed suicide?
	It committed suicari-kari, man.
	You know?
	I mean, I wish I had the footage, man.
	These guys don't want to listen to me.
	I'm sorry.
	So you're telling me it disappears then, virtually?
	Well, you can actually see what looks like water spurting down on the grass on the football field.
	You're talking rod guts here?
	Rod liquid.
	Rod goo, man.
	I saw the footage, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up.
	You know, Jose, unless people go up to my website and follow along with us here, they're going to be laughing us off the face of the planet.
	They've got to see this with their own eyes to believe it.
	I'll tell you, you know, Jim Peters and I and a couple other guys in Denver, We're going to this nightclub one night, and it was snowing, man.
	It was pretty cold outside, and something hit the windshield, and I could have sworn it was a rod, man.
	But it exploded.
	It hit the windshield, and it left a film, a liquid film.
	But then it evaporated, whatever.
	But it was cold.
	It should have left a streak.
	You know, something hits your windshield, it usually leaves a streak.
	Yes.
	When we pulled over, we had to blow our breath on the windshield before we could see there was any trace that anything had ever hit it.
	And, you know, it was...
	We've seen this, man, and who knows what you hit with your windshield, man.
	You know?
	Well, also, who knows?
	For example, I drive a big 37-foot RV.
	Yeah.
	And it gets pretty rotted up after a while.
	I mean, obviously, a lot of what's on the front of the RV after a long trip, that's insects, right?
	Well, you have no idea.
	But on the other hand, who knows how much rod juice is part of that?
	Exactly.
	I've gotten emails from people who say, man, there's this one object, white object, that keeps crossing the road in front of us every time we're driving out of our farm.
	And it just, boom, zips by.
	We don't know what it is, but we keep seeing it.
	So I sent the email, I said, hey man, videotape next time.
	Next time you're driving down, videotape.
	It could be a rock.
	All right.
	Hold on, Jose.
	We'll be back after the top of the hour.
	For the rest of you, go to my site, www.artbell.com.
	And go to program.
	Tonight's guest info, the name Jose Escamilla, photos and videos of rods, it will blow your mind.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 22, 2001.
	Music.
	Be it sight, sound, smell or touch, there's something inside that we need so much.
	you The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sound, or the strength of an oak when it's deep in the ground.
	The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
	Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing?
	To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing?
	To have all these things in our memories whole?
	And the users are countless to find Ride, ride where she's sold
	Take his place on this trip Just for one day
	Ride, take a free ride Take a glimpse of my scene
	It's heartbreaking I've worked like a slave for years
	Worked so hard just to win my fears Had to risk my life for my rights
	But by now, by now I'm a rich man's man You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time
	On Premier Radio Networks Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM, from February 22, 2001.
	And we have visual evidence on my website, in the form of still photographs, some by the Learning Channel, others, most in fact, by Jose Escamilla.
	Of another life form that's all around us, coexisting on the planet, using the same air, the same water that we use.
	It's a life form, and you can see it.
	And we're about to go to a video of a rod circling a man that's just astounding!
	It's down toward the bottom of the list of videos, and it's absolutely astounding!
	So, one more time, the instructions.
	If you can get to a computer, go to my website, www.artbell.com.
	Click on tonight's guest info, the name Jose Escamilla, and then, of course, the stills and the video of this life form that we're talking about and seeing tonight.
	We're going to go down to the one that says, Rod Circling Man.
	That's going to come next.
	Stay right there.
	Now let's go back to the night of February 22nd, 2001 on Arkbell, Somewhere in Time.
	Arkbell, Somewhere in Time.
	Alright, this may be one of the most convincing pieces, although we've seen several already.
	On the list of videos available that you can look at right now, You'll find, down toward the bottom, an MPEG video.
	It says, Rod Circling Man.
	I suggest you take a look at that one right now.
	It's just a mind-blower.
	Jose?
	That's amazing.
	Yeah, it's amazing.
	It looks like a Mexican man, I guess.
	Right.
	Well, it is.
	It's a little 10-year-old mariachi kid, man.
	Is that right?
	Yeah.
	And this Rod, man, it must be doing about 30, 40 miles an hour, man.
	Because when you look at the video in real time, I've slowed it down to about 3 or 4 frames per second.
	When you see it in regular motion, it just goes boom!
	You can't even see it do the turn that it does around this kid's waist.
	What's amazing about it is you can actually see it turn.
	I don't know if some of your audience may be able to do frame by frame.
	Man, it's just an amazing shot of a rod.
	I agree.
	And then at the end, you zoom in and actually show the rod.
	You freeze frame the rod and zoom in on it after it's done the circle around the guy.
	Yeah.
	And then you can take that frame, that same rod image, and you can look at another rod that's up on the website that says rod flies over cameraman's shoulder.
	It's on one of the real video clips.
	It's the same type of rod.
	So it's really It's an amazing shot, man.
	I'm really happy about that shot.
	Well, again, that would seem to mean that the rod understands the man is there and has decided for some reason to fly around him like that.
	Yeah, and you know, talk about it being up in slow motion.
	The kid makes a motion with his hand.
	If you can notice, the kid raises his hand to do an expression as he's singing.
	The Rod nearly misses striking his hand.
	So in advance it was going fast enough to where it made that supposition that, hey, he's going to move his hand, I'm in there.
	Are they able to almost act like a bat, that is to say, to avoid Something moving for a human fairly rapidly?
	Possibly so, man.
	I mean, they seem to be able to avoid collision.
	This one was definitely determined to do the little circle around a kid's waist.
	But when they do collide, do they inevitably seem to die?
	Well, that one... I don't know if die is the right word.
	Going back to the referee, man, it looked like it hit his shoulder and it turned to water, man.
	You know, robbed you or something.
	I need to get that video back from the network and look at it closely.
	We've had a couple of reports and two isolated cases where they said they caught rods.
	Do you know about that?
	No, no, no, no.
	Who said they caught rods?
	Oh man, there's two different locations where this happened.
	One was in Philadelphia.
	There was a guy that said this rod came into his house and it flew around and he was trying to hit it with a fly swatter or something and he sprayed aerosol.
	Check this out.
	Check this out.
	This is Craig Yupp.
	He sprayed aerosol on this rod and he said it was definitely a rod.
	It was something just zipping by real fast.
	He sprayed aerosol.
	Didn't see it anymore.
	Then he said he went to into his lab.
	I don't know what kind of lab he had, but he had sulfur all over the place.
	You know, maybe he had a methane lab for all I know, but he said he goes back in there and then he hears this fluttering sound and he sees this thing fall from the ceiling and falls on this bed of sulfur.
	And when he went and touched it, And he said it was definitely a rod shape.
	It was a rod object that had the membrane along both sides of the torso.
	When he touched it, it disintegrated into a fine dust.
	And that was one account, okay?
	You're kidding.
	Yeah, the second account was... That rod couldn't get out of his house?
	Is that the... In other words, a rod can get trapped?
	It's related with insecticide, man.
	You know?
	So, in other words, it was a twitching rod?
	It was a dying rod?
	Evidently, he killed it.
	But he, you know...
	I get emails, man.
	You know, two different accounts.
	The second one was at the Cave in Mexico, where he got these bass jumpers.
	Yes.
	And one of the guys said that one bumped into him, and it fell, and he picked it up, put it in a jar.
	And then by the time they traveled an hour down the road to get to the hotel, by the time they pulled the jars back out, it had disintegrated into fine dust.
	It looked like the kind of film you get off of a moth's wings, you know.
	He said that's what it looked like after it had disintegrated.
	Yeah, I've seen that.
	Oh, my God, though.
	Wouldn't you love to have some of that to examine?
	Yeah, and they supposedly have video and still photos of it in the jar.
	In the jar?
	Yeah.
	I haven't gotten my hands on it, but, you know, it's one of those things.
	You know, what can you do?
	Now, you remember the last show we did?
	I have watched, you know, I'm a cat guy.
	I've got cats.
	Well, we've had cats, Ramon and I have had cats ever since we've been married.
	Right.
	And cats, of course, are constantly chasing things that are unseen.
	Now, a lot of people think that cats make these things up in their mind, that they can cock these invisible playmates to go pounce on And to run after suddenly and pounce on the rug or to, you know, sometimes they'll jump up on a window or something.
	There's no bird out there.
	They're just after something that their little cat brain thinks is there.
	Well, what if it is there?
	And what if cats do see, you know, cats A system that they run 102 degrees, they run much faster than we do.
	And their visual acuity is a lot more sensitive than ours.
	That's right, that's correct.
	So you think they might see them?
	It sounded like James said something.
	Yeah, what did you say?
	Sensitive to movement, yeah.
	Sensitive to movement than a cat is.
	Yeah, so I wouldn't doubt it, man.
	You see a cat playfully jumping at something and it's just flapping its paws at something and You go, oh, how cute, you know, probably chasing a rod, man, you know?
	I wonder if a cat... You think cats eat rods?
	Who knows, man?
	You know, one of our biologist friends from Denver said, you know, the enzymes that these things are burning to be able to travel at that kind of, you know, those kind of high speeds and make right angle turns and maneuvers and things, you know, they're burning a lot of enzymes, you know?
	The metabolic rate is really high.
	Very high, yes.
	So tell him what kind of protein these things have, man, you know?
	I mean, it's amazing.
	It's definitely something that we need to get more people involved in.
	And, you know, little by little, we're making strides.
	You know, we were mentioning earlier, you know, the spiritual aspect.
	You know, I went through the path, man.
	I went to the Star Knowledge Conferences, met with the elders and the Native Americans, and, you know, they call them arrows, and they, you know, they have their own thing about what they could be.
	They call them what?
	They call them arrows.
	Native Americans call them arrows?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, standing up is one of the religious leaders of the Native Americans, the Sioux Indian tribes.
	He had told me that the elders said that these things are called arrows, as far as they're concerned, and they are definitely of a spiritual nature, according to their insights.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	They said that the white rods are like our thoughts.
	No, like our prayers, the dark rods are like our thoughts, and they don't know what the red and orange ones are, you know?
	But that's the spiritual aspect, and you know, I went through all aspects trying to find out what the hell we're dealing with, you know?
	Just recently, finally, after all these years, we've been doing this for seven years now, a cryptozoologist has finally acknowledged that this could be a type of creature or life form that exists among us.
	So cryptozoologists are finally getting, you know, catching on.
	And eventually, hopefully, we'll get more scientific individuals involved.
	We certainly need to.
	Now, I'm looking at another video.
	This is completely awesome.
	Which one's that?
	Let me see.
	Which one is it?
	You know what?
	Now I'm not sure.
	It was another jumper.
	It might be...
	Let's see.
	Clear image of cave rod 2.
	I think it's close-up image of a cave rod.
	That's it.
	Oh, yeah.
	Close-up image of a cave rod.
	Oh, that's one of the best ones, too, man.
	That one shows the camera angle that was shot at.
	Shows the base jumper going into the hole.
	Now the guy is ready to open his chute.
	He's out of focus because the camera, you know, he's out of range of the focal length of the camera.
	And a rod zips through in between him and the camera.
	That's what I was going to say.
	It looks like the rod, in this case, is pretty doggone close to the camera.
	It's in focus, man.
	And I'm telling you, you can see detail.
	Exactly.
	You can see a great deal of detail.
	Yeah.
	And I zoomed in on it with the magic of my computer editing.
	Now, let me... Let me one more time look at this rod.
	Yeah, the rod is in good detail.
	And you can see there's some motion of what I... I don't know.
	I guess you call... Would you call them...
	Are they air fins?
	It's a membrane.
	It's a membrane that you would find along the sides of the torso of a mollusk or a cuttlefish.
	And it's an undulatory waveform type of flapping thing that they do.
	But it's a membrane that's along both sides of the torso.
	And look at the front end of the rod.
	You can see it curves up.
	I'll tell you what else you can see, Jose.
	Different motion from different portions of the rod as though the membranes are moving in a waving form or whatever, but you can see movement in the front and then the middle and then the back.
	Exactly.
	Even maybe a corkscrew type.
	Maybe, yes, maybe, but that is certainly what the camera is catching.
	And it's moving, I mean, the only kind of creature that can do those kind of maneuvers in any kind of a liquid is a fish, man, you know, or especially a cuttlefish.
	I mean, they can maneuver underwater.
	You know, you've seen dolphins do corkscrew type swimming and this kind of thing.
	That's what this thing is doing, you know, and we've seen this characteristic when you see the real, you know, close shot, you can see at the front end, it appears to have a little lip Which points upward.
	Right.
	We've seen that in other rod shots taken by other people from different parts of the world.
	All right.
	Jose, we've been making movies and television now for a long time, a relatively long time.
	Right.
	So one thing you could do, obviously, would be to go back and research old stuff, old movies, old television.
	And when you do, do you find rods?
	Yes, you do.
	So, for as long as we've been doing video and television, there have been rods?
	As far as I've seen, yeah.
	Recent films that have come out have rods in them.
	We've got one flying right over Mel Gibson, for example.
	And this was shot back in, I guess, what was it, 95, 96?
	When he was in Scotland doing Braveheart, there was a rod that flies right over him.
	You know?
	And there's other movies, too, that a lot of people... But still, that's fairly recent, though, contemporary.
	Yeah.
	I mean, could you go back to the 30s or the 40s and look at some motion pictures or whatever and find rods then?
	I'm trying to determine, are they relatively new or have they always been here?
	No, they've been here.
	They've definitely been here.
	I haven't seen any footage from the 40s or 50s, you know?
	Aside from Trevor James Constable's infrared photographs of rods, you know?
	Um, I've had other people that said, Hey, Jose, there's this movie with John Wayne where they open up the, uh, the bomb, uh, thing that drops the bombs.
	And, and, and we saw Rod fly right through before they dropped the bombs, you know, and this was on an old John Wayne movie.
	So I haven't seen the footage myself, but you know, I get reports.
	So, you know, there's people out there.
	So then whatever these things are, Hey, here's a good one.
	This is going to blow you away.
	Okay.
	Carl Sagan's Cosmos.
	Yes.
	I've been getting emails, man.
	There's Rod in his very first, Cosmo's episode, man.
	That was in the 70s, wasn't it?
	You're kidding.
	Yeah.
	And there's a shot, and it's on DVD, it's on videocassette, where a rod flies right over the mouth of a whale.
	And it's a distinct rod, man.
	I'm serious.
	It's just as good a shot as you see here with the close-up.
	It's that kind of rod shot.
	Yeah, the close-up...
	The close-up image of a cave rod is incredible, folks.
	You've got to see that one.
	It's undeniable.
	It's there.
	This is absolutely undeniable.
	I mean, I think you have conclusively proven your case that they're here.
	How did you hook up with James Peters?
	Well, James Peters has been the biggest asset that I've had, man, because he has brought out, actually, the way they fly.
	He's the one that formulated, look, they do an undulatory thing.
	It's not a series of little winglets.
	Yeah, but how did you meet him?
	He came in to investigate me back in 95 when he was with Colorado Mufon, the assistant state director.
	And he sat with me, literally, and watched hundreds of hours of footage.
	And man, he had his Eureka moment.
	And that's how I met him.
	And you know what?
	He's brought out so much stuff.
	Can you put James on the phone with you?
	Do you have two phones there?
	I can put him on, yes.
	Hold on.
	All right, have him pick up the phone.
	Have him pick up the main phone.
	James?
	Hello, Art.
	Welcome back.
	Hi.
	Thank you, James.
	I read a little bit.
	I thought I had one bio here, but I had one bio and, well, really two bios and one thing here, so I mixed it all up.
	But I read a little bit about you.
	You were in Colorado Mufon, huh?
	Yeah, until I moved out here to California last year.
	I was the Assistant State Director for quite a few years.
	You know Michael Kurta?
	He became my friend, and through him and my Association with Mufon through him I joined became an investigator and then later on Then she became the assistant state director.
	So how'd you hear about rods?
	well, it was a kind of funny it was they came up from New Mexico before he had moved to Colorado and Actually was presented a lecture for us for Colorado Mufon and I wasn't able to attend that night because my daughter had a school function and Galen Sharp one of our section directors bought the tape that Jose had at the time which was on the Midway UFO sightings And at the very end of the tape, he had a few clips of rods, because it was kind of new, and he kind of stuck it on the end.
	And so Galen said, hey, tell me what you think of this.
	And so he puts the tape in the VCR.
	He fast-forwards all the UFO stuff to the very end.
	And he goes, what do you think of this?
	And of course, you know, my reaction is what a lot of people did at first, is you think insect or bug or something.
	But there was still something a little different about it.
	Well, when Jose moved up, he attended one of our state meetings, and I found out that he not only moved to Colorado, but he moved to the same city that I lived in in Lakewood, and was only about 10 minutes away.
	So now it's irresistible.
	Yeah, I mean, with an opportunity like that, and it made it easy to be able to spend a lot of time and devote to it.
	So I started out sitting down with Jose a couple nights a week on average, and usually for a couple hours at a time, and he was showing me A lot of the original footage that a lot of people, you know, there's just so much footage that it's hard to call it all out.
	Yeah.
	In the, in the beginning, the footage was fascinating.
	It was interesting, but it was not conclusive.
	Well, there was a lot, so many unusual aspects about it.
	And my problem was is that I really didn't have a background in, in film or, or video.
	I was looking at it from what is the data actually telling me, how is the data collected, what's going on with the film, the camera settings, things like that.
	Right.
	And of course, Jose had a much bigger background in that, and he was able to explain a lot of these things to me initially.
	And once I got a little bit more of a feel for it though, and different shots taken by different people with different cameras, and different lighting situations, different focal lengths, things like that.
	It just became that you could see there was an underlying theme after you've seen a couple hundred hours of footage that you can really start to get a kind of a gut feeling for, well, that's a rod and that definitely isn't.
	And they have certain characteristics kind of segregate them out of, you know, misfilmed insects or birds.
	You can take a blurry shot of a bug and be rod-like.
	There's lots of rod-like phenomena out there.
	And one of my focuses has been trying to keep it really straight on exactly what it is we're investigating and not getting sidetracked by these other things that have kind of popped up along the way.
	Have you proven conclusively to yourself?
	Myself, yes.
	That a rod is not an insect, eh?
	Yeah.
	It came in two stages, really.
	One was, there was a few shots that we were going through Where we had a camera where everything was right.
	The camera was a high speed setting.
	The lighting was good.
	And we had some of those classic things where a bug came by and you can count the legs on it.
	Yup.
	And a bird comes through and you can actually see the parting of the wingtip feathers.
	You bet.
	And then a rod comes through.
	You bet.
	Okay.
	And so there is absolutely such a thing as rods.
	Not to be confused with insects or birds.
	Correct?
	And then about three or four months, and then there's a visual acuity thing that, you know, we talk about, about being able to see him with the naked eye.
	All right, we'll get to that in a moment.
	Okay.
	Have you also determined in your own mind that a rod is a life form?
	Yes, definitely.
	That's an absolute yes?
	Myself, yes.
	All right, hold on.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 22nd, 2001.
	Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah.
	I'll give you all that I own.
	You got me standing in line.
	I'm in the gold.
	Baby, so fine.
	Let me shake you any way you want me.
	Baby, so fine Let me shake you any way you want
	Long as you love me Yes
	But you think I should be happy With your money and your name
	And hide myself in sorrow while you play your cheatin' game.
	Silver threads and golden needles cannot mend this heart of mine
	And I dare not drown my sorrow in the warm glow of your eyes
	But you think I should be happy with your money and your name
	And hide myself in sorrow while you play your cheating game And I dare not drown my sorrow in the warm glow of your
	eyes Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired February 26th.
	You know, I play this for certain people who should be very careful of the games they play.
	There's something on the website down below the moving images of the rods and the still photographs of the rods that you've got to see.
	1,000-year-old rock drawings of rod shapes from Argentina.
	After you've seen the rods and you look at these photographs, you're going to go, oh my God!
	Look at that!
	They were drawing photographs of rods way back then.
	There can be no mistaking it.
	It's on the same page.
	Just go down a little lower.
	It'll blow your mind.
	🎵 🎵
	Now let's go back to the night of February 22, 2001.
	1 on Arq.bel, somewhere in time.
	And before it's over, he will receive that prize.
	Also with us, James A. Peters.
	First of all, and I'm going to jump around a little bit because I just can't help it.
	I've got to get all this early while we're still early into the show, so I'm sure everybody gets it.
	But these photographs from Argentina, these rock petroglyphs from Argentina, a thousand years old, you know them to be about a thousand years old?
	Yeah, that's the information we got.
	I'm looking at the second one down, and on the right there is a photograph, or there's a...
	A pictograph of a rod.
	I mean, that's a rod.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Can it be anything else?
	Well, that's just one of the things.
	If you only had a two-dimensional way of trying to draw this for a friend.
	Let's say you were sitting down and trying to explain rods to somebody.
	Oh no, that's what I'd draw.
	Yeah, and you want a chalkboard or a cocktail napkin or something like that, what would you put?
	That's what I'd put.
	Yeah.
	Once you've seen a close-up of a rod, that's a rod.
	And the other significance is, it's not that the rods are there by themselves, but the other glyphs that are around them.
	Some of the other information we know about the site is that this area was where the shamans would go for visions.
	Oh, really?
	Who discovered this?
	That was said to me by one of the archaeologists who I met in Mexico City when I was with Hi, my name is Osan and he stayed in touch with me and he said, Jose, you'll never guess what I found.
	And he sent me these photos, man, and I just totally blew me away.
	And it's an area in Argentina, I can't, I can't pronounce the name and it's one of these towns, Argentina, but it's at an area there where there's definitely, you know, like a unique archaeological area where they don't let people just traverse and, you know, do graffiti on the rocks.
	I mean, it's against the law there.
	Uh, definitely a pristine environment, and I'm telling you, man, when I saw this stuff, I go, man, this is the most amazing thing, over a thousand years old, you know?
	Of course.
	There's no question about it.
	It's a rod, and that's where they want to have their spiritual experience.
	Right.
	And, you know, earlier I was kind of chuckling when you had the caller in who said he was high when he saw these rods, or what he thought were rods.
	Well, for all the chuckling that even I did for that call... Well, it's basically a cultural thing, because in our culture, if you tell somebody that you were intoxicated or on drugs, your credibility as a witness goes way down.
	I know, I know.
	But I don't quite look at it that way, despite my chuckling.
	I think that... No, it is funny.
	But in this case too though, I touched just before the break there about the visual acuity aspect of it.
	I mean you can train yourself basically.
	Some people naturally are more adept to it than others.
	But I went through an experience where I basically trained myself.
	I didn't realize it was going on when it happened.
	But I was training myself to pick these up because when I was first sitting down with Jose, He would play a tape back or, you know, at regular speed and he'd go, zip, there, do you see it?
	And I'd go, what?
	You know, and he'd have to rewind it, go back frame by frame before... Yeah, sure, it takes a while.
	Takes a while.
	Yeah, and then it got to the point where I was noticing rods that he didn't see.
	You know, for example, the rods entering the ocean was something I picked up that he never saw.
	Oh, no, listen, I understand the process.
	I was a 911 operator.
	And in that job, you had to be able to take phone calls from the public.
	You had to control about, oh, I don't know, as many as 15 or 20 police cars at any given time, know where each one is, what it's doing.
	You had to dispatch them, do everything.
	It was a lot of multitasking.
	And before they would ever let you sit down and do it for real, because, you know, you You had lives in your hand.
	Right.
	You had to spend weeks and weeks sitting next to a dispatcher with headphones on and you had to learn to hear the calls while you were doing something else and learn to segment it all in your brain.
	It was a very serious job and I'm sure that's kind of like learning to see rods.
	It is and it wasn't until after that that I had my first eyewitness But obviously, James, you've come to Jose to add some scientific expertise to what he's done.
	that you know i'm going out there i know this problem is really unique
	separate onto its own but obviously james you've come to jose to add some
	scientific expertise uh...
	to what he's done and i understand how he got to where he got to with rodson
	why he got there right yours must be a rather frustrating job because you compile
	the scientific evidence
	and then you no doubt tried to go to legitimate scientists and present them
	to Yeah. Yeah. With it rather.
	So what kind of reception do you generally get?
	It's amazing.
	They'll sit there and nod their head yes, and they'll say, okay, that's unusual, that's unique, and it falls flat.
	I think what it is is just more of a Not so much on scientists themselves, but just the scientific community and how they're funded and where they get their grants and who pays their bills and writes their paychecks for them.
	They're afraid of it?
	Yeah, it's too far out of the reach.
	You know, one thing that... Yeah, except that the evidence is incontrovertible.
	Now, these are scientists.
	What we've gone on now, though, here's a good analogy.
	When we first started out, the very first of this, You know, when I got involved, we were hearing a lot about the spiritual nature of this.
	You know, energy forms.
	Was it physical?
	You know, did it have mass?
	Those kind of things have been covered so far.
	Then the UFO community really picked it up.
	Rogers UFOs.
	Well, technically it is an unidentified flying object, but they were putting it to alien creatures and cigar-shaped spacecraft and things like that.
	And now it is rightfully in the place where I think in the cryptozoology area of investigation and that you get more cryptozoologists
	now who are picking up and investigating rots.
	I think that's the proper place for it.
	Well, what do they say?
	Well, they're recognizing it now as a life form, as an animal, you know, and you're getting more people who are at
	it.
	But just like, you know, people with Bigfoot sightings and other things like that, when you approach the scientists,
	I find it very similar.
	They'll sit there and they'll go, okay, well, you got something there, but they just don't want to get involved
	with it.
	You know, and we've got some people...
	Now, that's not to say that everybody's like that.
	I mean, obviously, we have Dr. Cashier has been working with us.
	Bruce McAbee's helped us out with especially the shot where the rod goes into the shadow.
	Yes.
	Ken Swartz there in Denver, a scientist who's got a strong biology background who really keyed us on some really unique aspects, possibly on the evolution of rods and where they came from.
	So it's not to say that You know, we haven't gotten some good hits and great feedback from real professional scientists, but as far as it being a subject material that's acceptable, it's not anywhere close.
	I don't see how that can be.
	I'm sitting here watching the video again of the man falling, and the rod going by, and then the rod, a close-up of the rod going from the sunlight into a shadow.
	That's absolutely It's just incontrovertible?
	Yeah, I agree with you, and I even showed it to the entomologist that I was working with.
	You know, these are guys who have master's degrees and PhDs and studying, you know, insects, basically, or arthropods, which is more the correct term.
	But they would look at it and scratch their head at it, you know, but they're so involved in what they're doing, I mean, unless they just had a personal interest in it, something they would want to do on the side, they would be able to do it, but they would never be able to officially sanction the results or their comments on it.
	Also, there's an entomologist out of England that made a perfect model of what he felt would be the prehistoric ancestor of today's insects, okay?
	Yes.
	Now, I don't want to say that rods are insects, but there's, you know, what I'm talking about, we may have hit upon what might be the origin of these things.
	The biologist in Denver brought out Animalicarus, which is a creature from 500 million years ago.
	This entomologist made a model.
	And it's a little thing that he throws and it actually flies.
	He says, this is what today's insect's ancestor would look like.
	OK?
	And guess what it looked like?
	A rod?
	It was a rod, man.
	To me, the one thing is that there's a lot of supposition here about, well, could this be an ancestor of rods?
	Number one, it's called prototerragote, and it's a hypothetical He's an ancestral creature to insects.
	They haven't any fossil evidence or anything of this particular thing, but in his mind he's going, in the evolutionary path of things, following the fossil record, something like this could very easily have been the first evolutionary precursor to what eventually evolved into what we commonly call insects today.
	He built a cardboard model of it and it flies.
	It's aerodynamically viable.
	It's a glider.
	It doesn't have any propulsion on it, but it glides well.
	You look at it, and if you know anything about rods, it just clicks right in your mind right away.
	So even if it's not the ancestral, you know, any kind of physical proof that rods exist, one thing it does show is that the aerodynamics of rods is viable.
	And that's something that a lot of people don't understand.
	Oh, there's a good point.
	The aerodynamics, in other words, when you duplicate the shape as best you can, it works.
	It glides, yeah.
	You know, anybody who's a pilot, you know, basically what you need to do is you need to overcome gravity and drag to be able to fly.
	You need thrust and you need lift.
	And there's a lot of different wing designs out there and in ways that you can do this.
	You know, right now in the ocean, we see one of the best, what I think, models for what we think rods have in the cuttlefish or the squids with their fins alongside their body, more so than stingrays and stuff because of the tubular shape of the body and the thin, translucent nature of the fins that they have.
	James, how would you account for a rod?
	I can understand everything you've said aerodynamically.
	But then how would you account for a rod moving at similar speeds as though the new mass of the water, when it dives into the water, isn't even there?
	Well, you have to understand that they very often do aerodynamic studies in water.
	And the hydrodynamics is basically the same thing as aerodynamics.
	Just the medium is less dense when you're dealing with water and less dense with air than it is with water.
	Yeah, so much less dense that a rod should slow way down in the water.
	Well, they do seem to slow down.
	Like I said, with the bubble trail, they obviously haven't left drag, but they were still very fleeting in the water.
	I'm not saying that they were in what we have from the National Geographic footage.
	I don't think it's traveling 100 miles an hour, but it's still very fast.
	I mean, it just zips right on by.
	All right.
	Question for either one or both of you.
	How many rods are in our average environment?
	In other words, as I sit here in my studio right now, Or you sit where you all are sitting.
	How likely is it that there is a rod nearest, around us, above us, below us, somewhere, moving nearest?
	How dense a population of rods is typical?
	They're not real dense, but you've got to really think of them.
	Sky fishing, for example, is one reason why that term is even used by us, is because it's a lot like fishing.
	You know, you might have a lake full of fish, but if you're not in the right spot, you're not going to get nothing.
	So, you're saying that to get a rod on video, you've got to essentially go fishing for it.
	Sky fishing.
	There's a lot of luck involved.
	There really is.
	Now, that's one reason why this cave in Mexico becomes kind of a focus for us, because it seems like every time we go there, we get a hit.
	There's rods.
	Yeah.
	That's one reason.
	The cave, obviously, is a very unique and special environment.
	And we're really curious about what it is specifically that might be so attractive.
	That's going to be my next question.
	Any thoughts on what it might be that attracts them particularly to a cave environment?
	One thing, it's a protected environment.
	It's a very humid environment.
	They are using the fresh water or salt water as part of their life cycle, which I believe they do.
	A humid environment is going to be something that they're going to want.
	It's protected.
	There might be a food source there for them.
	We got a rod shot of a swallow chasing a rod off.
	And the rod is actually longer than the swallow.
	Is that one in here?
	I don't think so on that one.
	I think I might have... It's on the Roswell Rods website, though.
	Someone wants to pursue it later.
	Um, we were just, it was kind of hard for us, you know, on the notice to get as, uh... I know, I know.
	You know, everything up here as we did.
	I know, we got a lot of stuff up here.
	A lot of information overload going on right now for most people, especially if they haven't been exposed to this before.
	But, uh, we have a, a, a swallow that, uh, it looks like it's defending its nest.
	It's a cave swallow.
	It's got a mud nest built in the side of the cave, and it flies out and actually attacks a rod.
	It attacks a rod?
	And the rod is able to outmaneuver the swallow, and swallows live by catching insects on the wing.
	Is there any question at all that the swallow is after the rod?
	There's no doubt about it at all.
	It's very clear.
	The proximity is right there.
	The rod is... So birds... Looks like he's just cruising along, doesn't really care about what's going on, and the swallow comes out directly at the rod.
	So birds, too, have very fast metabolisms, right?
	Yes.
	In visual acuity.
	So it certainly would not in visual acuity.
	So it would make sense that a bird would see a rod just as a cat would see a rod.
	Yes.
	Yes.
	So we have interacting with the environment.
	So, I mean, for it to interact with a human, like, you made an excellent point earlier about, you know, why is it so something peculiar about these guys, these space jumpers, jumping in this cave?
	Because they're moving fast.
	They're not used to something that big moving that fast around them.
	I think they're going to have a certain amount of curiosity and check it out, whether it be... Now, we want to say it's curiosity.
	Well, maybe it's a defensive maneuver.
	You know, who knows what their motivation is for what they do, but they do display an interaction with their environment.
	Now, we have bats, and bats avoid things.
	They've got radar, and I suppose if you were to consider what a bat does, and you didn't know about its radar ability, its sonar, you would attribute some sort of intelligence to it by the way it avoids things.
	Are we doing that with rods?
	In other words, the way they would circle a man, or the way they would go under a shell casing, or any of the other, you know, other amazing things we've seen them do.
	Well, I think they do have an affinity to low frequencies.
	There's some sounds that rods make that we've caught on video.
	Sounds?
	Sounds, yeah.
	You know, you can... There's various little things that we understand that are unique about rods, that when we hear it or see it, We know that that's kind of a tag, you know, for the phenomena.
	When a rod flies close by the camera, to me it sounds like if you took a wooden spoon and wrapped it on a counter.
	It's kind of a wooden knock sound.
	Very quick, very sharp.
	Insects, on the other hand, when they fly at the camera, you're going to get a buzz or a whine.
	You mean kind of like this?
	That's it.
	Very close.
	More of a thud type sound, actually.
	Just think of a big wooden spoon just knocking it once on the counter.
	Yeah, and it's that fast.
	But an insect flies by, you get the doppler effect.
	That's right.
	That's right.
	But you don't get that with a rod.
	No.
	No, you don't.
	And I dare anybody that's getting an insect that can make that kind of sound.
	We have had, and here I go off on another track, but we've had tons of footage from NASA.
	Of spacewalks and, you know, building the space station and stuff from the various shuttle missions we've had up.
	Has anybody ever seen a rod in space?
	Well, that's where we go back to the thing about defining the phenomenon itself.
	There's been a lot of rod-like things that have been seen in space, shooting around and stuff like that.
	But for my purposes, you know, the thing has wings and it needs air to move.
	Obviously, if it's interacting with water, I'm sure it has a metabolism.
	I'm pretty sure it's probably going to need oxygen and things like that.
	So a rod, being one of what we're calling a rod, being in space myself, I think, would be a pretty slim chance.
	All right.
	Then you believe that rods share our environment, share the need for air or the mix of what we call air and or water, that rods do not Penetrate solid things like the ground.
	They almost seem to, but when you look more closely, they actually don't.
	Right.
	Right.
	You've confirmed all this to your own satisfaction, James?
	And because we've, you know, at early in the early days, you know, you'd only get one one shot, you know, or one clip where it showed that.
	But in the meantime, we've had other shots that have duplicated that, you know, so you have three or four examples of a similar thing going on.
	And the other thing is that we're not just dealing with video here.
	We're also dealing with film, motion film and still film.
	And we're also dealing with eyewitness accounts.
	So you have to look at the entire body of the data that you're working with.
	And one of the things that with the eyewitness accounts is that Rod, I don't think they have the sonic ability of bats for avoidance because I know that one of the emails we got is from an over-the-road trucker.
	And he might be listening out there because I know you've heard about Rod's first time listening to Art Bell.
	But he was talking about him seeing an object coming down the road at him.
	And it hit hitting the windshield and it was way too big to be an insect.
	I would imagine a lot of truckers might have stories like that.
	That's actually one thing he went on to say.
	And they probably left a big big wad of clear glue that evaporated rather quickly, which shared the experience that Jose and I had that night.
	I wonder how many truckers would report that.
	I mean, half of them probably think, you know, I've been driving too damn long now.
	I'm seeing things.
	And since you kind of see them out of the corner of your eye anyway.
	Right.
	And one of the comments he made is that He says, you know, when they wash their trucks down after a run, they're washing all kinds of stuff off of there, and they surprise themselves about what the hell could this stuff be?
	So I don't think rods have any magical or mystical ability not to screw up every once in a while.
	Then there's this one shot of taking of a rod 3,000 feet up in the air from a helicopter during the worst tornado that Oklahoma City ever had.
	We don't have that one on here, do we?
	No, I haven't been able to get the license to that footage, but Uh, Gary England of Channel 9 News in Oklahoma videotaped a rod flying into the wind.
	300 mile an hour wind.
	Oh my, we'll get to that.
	Into the wind.
	Hold on.
	Both of you, hold on.
	You're listening to Arc Bell, Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 22nd, 2001.
	Of what I am.
	It's all clear to me now.
	My heart is on fire.
	My soul's like a wheel that's turning.
	My love... Higher and higher, baby.
	Higher and higher, baby It's a living thing
	It's a terrible thing to lose Oh
	It's a given thing.
	What a terrible thing to lose!
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM, from February 22nd, 2001.
	Do you remember, just for fun, do you remember when we had Ed Dames remote-view rods?
	And Ed thought it was, uh, we set it up on one show, and Ed thought, oh yeah, sure, okay, I'll do it.
	Because we had photographs.
	And Ed Dames remote-viewed these, and came back and said, oh my God, they are living things.
	Sharing the same space with us.
	He didn't say that.
	Early on, too.
	Now, I want you all to follow along with us.
	One more time, I'm going to instruct you on how to see everything that we've been talking about.
	Go to my website at www.artbell.com.
	That's A-R-T-B-E-L-L.com.
	When you get there, just go to Program, put your cursor over that, Tonight's Guest Info, and then you'll see Jose Escamilla's name there, and below that you'll see Related Info, Photographs and Videos of Rods.
	Now, I'm going to go down to a pretty interesting shot that's entitled, New Mexico Rod Shot with UFO.
	And I'm going to take a look at that one with my two guests in a moment.
	And we are going to get the phone lines open and we're going to let you ask questions because I assume by now many of you have had a chance to go up and see all of this.
	And if you have, you know they're not insects.
	You know they're not birds.
	You know that we're dealing with a life form that's all around us all the time.
	That's big news.
	That's science award stuff.
	We'll get right back to it.
	You're listening to ARK Bell, Somewhere in Time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM, from February 22nd, 2001.
	Jose Escamilla probably should be called the Father of Rods.
	I guess that'd be fair.
	Are you, as far as you know, Jose, the first one to discover rods?
	Jose, you're on.
	I've got both of you on here now.
	Jose, are you the first one to discover rods, as far as you know?
	Yes.
	I'm the rod man.
	So then you could be the father of rods, right?
	And James, I guess you are the chief and first serious investigator of rods?
	Yeah.
	You know, there have been other people, I guess, you know, Trevor James Constable had photographed objects, but he was more into the amoeba looking things.
	He'd captured a couple of these rod objects, but he never elaborated into it.
	Not taking anything away from Trevor, I mean, he was back in the 58, man.
	All right, I've got a shot here.
	New Mexico rod shot with UFO.
	Right.
	Now, again, it's a moving video, and when I play it, I see what looks like a white, unidentified flying object, but then going directly above this thing, from right to left, is this what appears to be a long rod.
	Is that what it is?
	Yes, it is, and it's a type of rod that we call a spear-shaped rod.
	Anyway, there's no way to judge.
	we can't really see the undulatory wave fins, it's just a, looks like a spear or an arrow type thing.
	That was shot by Jeff Ferris, who's our third cohort that has been filming rods.
	And this was shot over Santa Fe, New Mexico at one 10,000 shutter setting on this video camera,
	which is the best clarity.
	And that was an event that happened over Santa Fe Plaza.
	It was amazing.
	Anyway, there's no way to judge the, that looks like a big rod.
	Yeah, that's one thing about this.
	Regretfully, it's hard to get a field of reference with it.
	This would be a good point to bring up what we call the sky fishing protocol, is that when somebody wants to go out there and sky fish is to purposely put objects in your field of view that you wouldn't do for aesthetic reasons, so that when you come back and if you do catch a rod, you have a chance to use the Whether it be a telephone pole, a power line, a tree, any kind of object, the side of a building, whatever.
	So when you do finally get the rod is that you can get an idea for, you know, narrow it down what the distance from the camera might actually be.
	All right, here's another biggie.
	Rod shots in Roswell, New Mexico in 1994.
	Right, that was my first rod shot over near the downtown area of Roswell, New Mexico.
	That building that you see there is the bank building.
	Which is situated at Main Street in Fork, which is the original location for the Roswell Data Record back in 1947.
	And then at the end, you do a freeze frame in black and white that's extremely convincing.
	Yeah, definitely.
	It's definitely something other than an insect.
	And these are the first ones that I thought were insects.
	I mean, I thought, oh, that's just an insect.
	But when you see these two rods fly by, when you see them in real time, they're going extremely fast.
	And there's no evidence of any kind of wing action or anything like that.
	It's just, those are amazing.
	They are amazing.
	Just absolutely.
	I mean, this is stunning evidence that I just I can't imagine how a scientist could dismiss this in any way.
	Well, you know, Art, I went to the Museum of Natural History here in L.A.
	and showed the footage and, you know, the evidence that we have to some of the oceanographers and entomologists and biologists there.
	And they are totally, totally into it.
	It's just that they said, Jose, Our science is we need specimens or a fossil or something that we can really grit our teeth in.
	They're not trying to say we're not interested.
	They're very interested, but you know what the main objective is on their side, you know, is bring us a carcass, man, and then we'll tell you exactly what it is.
	Sorry, well, how about catching a rod?
	Now you gave us two examples, one of a twitching rod, which had been sprayed, and then one I guess was in a jar.
	How might we go about catching a rod?
	That would be the next step.
	Okay, I was at the cave two and a half weeks ago in Mexico, and I saw two of them with the naked eye,
	and they were going so slow.
	I could have mistaken them for birds, but they weren't birds, they were actually rods.
	And I'll tell you Art, if I would have had one of these nets,
	you know like a swimming pool net that you clean your garbage out of the swimming pool.
	Yes.
	You know, 10 feet long.
	I could have swooped one up.
	They were that close, but they were... You know, you've got to know this cave, it's like a steep drop, 1,250 feet down, but they were right there, man, in front of me, and I saw them when I make it out, and they were going slow enough for once.
	They weren't going zipping by real fast.
	I saw the undulations.
	I saw the length of those.
	They were maybe about a foot long.
	I couldn't have one or two of them.
	Has anybody ever seen a rod motionless?
	Yeah, actually, there's eyewitness sightings of them.
	Well, there's two ways it could be motionless.
	One would be hovering in the air, and the other would be if they had landed on something.
	And we do have eyewitness reports of both of those.
	So they do that?
	Is that atypical or atypical behavior for a rod?
	It's the first time we've heard.
	Yeah, it would have to be atypical.
	It seems to be an unusual circumstance.
	What's typical is that rods are always in motion.
	Well, I think it's sharks.
	You can change speed and velocity and direction.
	You can see them accelerate.
	You can see them slow down.
	Well, I think it's sharks.
	They say they always have to stay in motion or they die.
	I think it has to do with their method of propulsion.
	I think for a rod to hover, Would be a fairly difficult maneuver for it and would be an unusual circumstance for it.
	Another thing I think is that from the eyewitness reports we've had is that the rods have more than one method of propulsion.
	I think they have the capability of gulping air into their body and kind of expelling it, you know, under pressure as kind of a jet motion.
	Like a jet, yeah.
	Like an octopus would in the water.
	Right.
	It's kind of a quick shot either for acceleration or maybe if they were sitting at rest.
	For example, if they were We've got a guy in Trinidad, the island of Trinidad, who said that he has a rod that kind of looked like it wrapped itself around a branch of a tree, a twig of a tree, and resting, not exhibiting any legs or anything like that.
	And another guy who saw a rod, what appeared to be an ill rod, the way he described it, it sounded like something that wasn't healthy.
	An under-the-weather rod?
	An under-the-weather rod.
	By the way, earlier you were talking about rods breaking water when they enter the ocean.
	When they leave the ocean and hit the air, are they breaking wind?
	Anyway, sorry.
	Poor attempted humor.
	No, no, no.
	The reason why I say that is because, in effect, what he was describing was like breaking wind, gulping in and your body actually expanding.
	In other words, taking it in and expelling it.
	Right.
	Taking it in on the front end.
	I've got it.
	And then expelling it under force and contraction on the other end, getting a jet propulsion out of it.
	By the way, is there any indication that there is a front and a rear To a rod.
	Is there any indication of, in any of these photographs, when you get really close up, of anything that would appear to be... What's on the website with the close-up of the rod, the one that looks like it has a corkscrew pattern to it.
	Which one should I be going to?
	The one that's the extreme close-up.
	That the cave jumper is jumping straight down.
	He's out of focus.
	Is that close-up image of cave rod?
	Yeah, it's the close-up, yeah.
	Alright.
	I'm watching that again.
	And it's traveling from left to right and still at the end when there's a freeze and you zoom into it.
	Yes.
	If you'll notice at the very right end, which appears to be the front because there's a direction of motion, there's a little bit of a hook.
	I see it.
	Yeah.
	Now that's something that we had kind of kept under our own belt for a long while.
	Just to see if this might be an indicator of a true rod.
	It almost looked like something opening.
	Yeah.
	And the best confirmation we actually have of seeing this in another rod shot is actually from a still 35mm film shot.
	And it's much more clear in that shot.
	It's one of those helicopter shots.
	Shot from a helicopter over Hawaii.
	And it has the same type of little hook at the nose there.
	And I mentioned before the break about this one tornado that occurred in Oklahoma.
	And a rod flying into a, uh, what?
	Into the wind.
	300 mile an hour wind.
	300 mile an hour wind.
	And this is at 3,000 feet above, you know, above the ground.
	The helicopter pilot saw it.
	They filmed it.
	Gary England, who is the meteorologist for the weather station there, Channel 9 News in Oklahoma City, He saw it with the naked eye, and he also saw it on video, and he called it an unidentified flying thing.
	Well, okay, isn't this then evidence, again, of a rod being particularly interested in a really fast-moving thing?
	A tornado's going really fast, right?
	It has some mass because it's picked up dust and whatever, God knows what else.
	Rock and energy, vortexes, you know.
	And so to a rod, this would be a contemporary.
	Almost.
	Moving that fast.
	I think that rods, if they've shown us anything as far as sounds and things like that, they seem to be attracted to low frequencies.
	Maybe even frequencies that we can't hear in the normal human range.
	You mean like the low frequency rumble of a tornado?
	Or a thumping sound, think about the thumping, chopping sound of a helicopter rotor.
	That's true, yes.
	I think firing very low frequency, traveling long distance because In all the rod shots where they're approaching the tank, they seem to be coming from far away, coming specifically to the tank.
	So you've got a very strong, low-frequency impulse that's going out.
	We've got an eyewitness account of somebody who's throwing a boomerang, and he's talking about he's got one of those four-bladed boomerangs.
	Here we go again.
	And he's got this one particular field, and on occasion he'll go out and he'll throw the boomerang.
	These things will kind of appear to rise out of the grass up to it as it reaches the end of its arc, and then when it slows down and starts to come back, they seem to lose interest in it, and then they zip away again.
	So there's these kind of recurring themes that you have to add up as anecdotally along the way.
	But they appear to be attracted to things that are moving fast.
	In other words, their little systems are zipping along at 10 zillion miles an hour.
	I can agree with that.
	Again, to us, and I said this earlier, to them, I suppose we are, for the most part, motionless, just pillars of stone or something.
	But occasionally we move fast, or fast for us, which brings us into their vision, their world.
	You know, one of the paradigms, people that have higher acuity, karate people, you know, the boxers and things like that?
	Right, right, right.
	Visual acuity, man.
	I have a lot of karate people that say, hey, I've seen them.
	I've seen these things, man.
	Why?
	Because they study on the art of fast movement.
	So, they condition themselves, and also using your peripheral vision.
	Yeah, peripheral.
	Alright, well I'm going to hope that some of the people that we're going to bring on the phones here to ask questions have seen some of these stills and the videos tonight on the website.
	I'm going to just hope that, so that we can get comments from people who have just sort of run into this tonight, and I want to get their impressions.
	So let's go to the phones.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with the Rod Guys.
	Hi Rod Guys, how are you?
	I heard you mention these rods, and you said you had these ancient paintings in these caves in Argentina, I believe it was?
	Rock carvings, they were petroglyphs.
	The rock carvings.
	I was wondering if you'd come across any written reports throughout history that had confirmed the existence of these rods, because when you said that, these had been around for Well, it sparked a memory of mine, and while reading a book called The Encyclopedia of Hell, I came across an interesting entry.
	Now, don't mistake the title.
	This is a book that compiled entries about evil in its various forms throughout history.
	And the authors have also written a companion book called The Encyclopedia of Heaven and Hell as various saints and other things religious.
	Now, this entry I came across regarded a saint, and I can't remember his specific name, But his story follows this outline.
	Centuries ago, the saint had been praying to God, and the focus of his prayer was that he was asking God to reveal the evil spirits that surround us each and every day.
	Now, God answered the saint's prayer and opened the saint's eyes in such a way that he was able to view the evil demons and spirits, and those spirits filled the air as though bees.
	Wow!
	The entry goes on to say the swarms of evil spirits continually surround us, Waiting to jump into any of our orifices and cause us to sin whenever we allow ourselves to become hosts of impurity.
	This was God's explanation for this.
	When she started talking about these rods, the story instantly came up to mind because I thought it was kind of freaky that you could just look in the thin air and see swarms of hidden spirits that You normally would not be able to perceive on a day-to-day basis.
	Hey, that's as good a shot as any!
	Well, there's been a lot of people, like I said, that have described rod-like phenomena and attributed spiritual qualities to it.
	Now, you know, it would just be supposition to say, were they seeing real rods?
	What we're talking about when we mention rods is a physical creature of some kind, and attributing to being something special, miraculous, or supernatural because they're so unique and hard to see.
	But when Sirach and Conrad Doyle, I know that on the website roswellrods.com, he's got a story that's attributed to being fiction, but he describes these serpents in the air.
	And when you read his account of what, this is supposedly what a pilot was observing while he was flying in the atmosphere, It is so good.
	It is so close to being a description of what a rod looks like.
	You have to wonder how much of that was his imagination, how much it might have been personal experience.
	Well, here's one for you, guys.
	Most things in our environment, living things, have a reason for being in our environment.
	They're part of a chain somewhere.
	Part of the ecosystem, yeah.
	Yeah, they're part of the ecosystem, part of the food chain, whatever.
	Any idea where rods would might fit in there? With me right now, maybe going back to
	the cave for one thing, is that there's what is there food? You know, things need certain
	things to survive. They need food, they need shelter, they need sex. You know, there are three
	main big things.
	I never even considered rod sex.
	My God.
	Well, you know, we've got a rod shot that was taken over a church.
	Was that North Dakota?
	That was in South Dakota.
	South Dakota.
	By standing up.
	Let me guess.
	Two rods getting it on.
	No, more than two.
	More than two.
	Oh, and rod orgy.
	Yeah, end-to-end, locked up end-to-end.
	Oh, no.
	Yeah.
	End-to-end?
	Yeah.
	Well, now I know more about rods than I wanted to know, maybe.
	Almost like a single-celled creature duplicating itself.
	It begs the question, is it asexual and they're butting off of each other, or are they copulating in some way along that way?
	Do they keep... Are they moving in this rod orgy?
	Are they all... Yeah, they're flying in line like a train.
	Just like cars of a train hooked up to each other, just flying all in line.
	You're kidding.
	I'm serious.
	Yeah.
	So, you know, methods of reproduction.
	Have we ever seen a baby rod?
	Well, they come in various sizes, so maybe we have.
	You know, there's a lot of things out there that when they're born, whether they hatch or are given birth, they're just miniature copies of the adult.
	So when we see small rods, we may very well be looking at baby rods.
	Do you ever see what appear to be baby rods flying in formation with Dare I say it, adult rods.
	Like some kind of parenting going on or something?
	Yeah.
	I haven't seen that that I can think of off the top of my head.
	We have seen rods of similar size interacting with each other.
	I heard Jose mention earlier like watching dolphins playfully swim, you know, and interacting with each other.
	Yes.
	But those have been basically of the same size and stature.
	But you know, you could be exhibiting a playing activity as a youth or training some way.
	The mind just goes and goes where you can talk about it.
	But rods of various sizes are pretty common.
	We had thought earlier that rods might have been very big, but there's just physical limitations to that to kind of bring it down to a certain size.
	Well, four feet's pretty big.
	Four feet is huge.
	I mean, to me, you're reaching at the very limits of credibility there when you start talking about something that big, that fast, and moving it.
	But again, that might be one thing about the cave is that it's such a remote environment.
	Until just very recently, only the local natives.
	I mean, it wasn't discovered until the early 60s by scientists.
	And so it's left undisturbed, and maybe that's one place where the Larger rods are allowed to... Like you grow big fish in certain areas.
	All right.
	And the other thing we don't know is how much the water is... Hold on, gentlemen.
	We're at a break point.
	We'll be right back.
	We're talking about rods.
	We're going to concentrate more heavily on the telephones, because I know you all have questions.
	And again, I'm going to hope that a lot of you that called tonight have seen what we have on the website at www.artbell.com.
	Please take a look.
	We'd love to have your reaction to a new living thing.
	You're listening to Art Bell.
	featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 22, 2001.
	I'm going to play a little bit of Coast to Coast.
	And if you get hurt, if you get hurt by the little things like me,
	I can put that smile back on your face.
	When it's all right and it's coming home, we gotta get right back to where we started from.
	Love is good, love can be strong, we gotta get right back to where we...
	of the wind, throw them down in a spin. I gave you love, I thought that we had made it to
	the top. I gave you all I had to give, but didn't have to stop.
	You've blown it all sky high By telling me a lie Without a reason why You've blown it all sky high You've blown it all sky high
	Our love had wings to fly We could have touched the sky
	You've blown it all sky high You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere In Time on Premier
	Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM, from February 22nd, 2001.
	It's damn cold.
	You know, here I sit, doing abnormal things for me.
	I'm drinking tea instead of coffee.
	You know me and coffee.
	So I'm drinking tea, taking echinacea.
	I'm doing all kinds of things and I'm getting angry at this cold and I'm wondering why science can discover things like rods and all sorts of diseases they claim to have cured and yet we still get this godforsaken common cold.
	Have we really come as far as we think we have?
	Now let's go back to the night of February 22nd, 2001 on ArkBell, Somewhere in Time.
	Here's what's next!
	Well, my two guests are Jose Escamilla, the father of Rods, and James A. Peters, the principal investigator of Rods, but I... I'll call them the Rod Guys, to save time.
	Number two, I think that people, the media, which I know listens to this program, and I mean the mainstream media, the networks, and you know what?
	Television should really, really be interested in this because there's so much visual.
	TV needs visual, and you guys have definitely got visual.
	We've got the stuff that's tough enough.
	You've got the proof.
	That's right.
	That's it.
	So, write to them at Skyfish at Pack Bell.
	My goodness, they'll think you're wonderful for what you're able to present.
	You'll have a story that will get you ratings like you've never had before if you include this video.
	And you guys will provide video, won't you?
	If a network Fox came to you and said, look, give us your best video, we're going to do something on this.
	We've done better than that.
	We've actually shot video for them.
	I've been caught rods.
	I'll tell you what, as they say, if Fox calls me, I'll say, we're going to blow you away, baby.
	I was recently in a local L.A.
	station here for sweeps weeks in the last two quarters, used rods just for that purpose to help with their ratings.
	They got such a good response off of the end of last year that they came back and used the subject again for February.
	But they came out to where we were at and I set up our camera.
	And I cut two rods for them while they were sitting there.
	But even if they don't want to go to that kind of work, you know, where they might or might not catch a rod, there's enough existing evidence for them to put together a visual story that would knock their viewers right on their rear ends.
	Oh, there's a ton of it.
	I mean, if you want to talk just about the actual video we have of rods, and we're talking about what we consider rods, there's a lot of bad stuff out there.
	Anybody with a camcorder these days is out there with automatic settings and doesn't understand what the
	protocols are to use and stuff and they get something blurry and long shape coming through there and they
	think they got a rod.
	And it really we appreciate that.
	And some people are actually catching rods, but for the most part, to be quite honest, they're not.
	Alright, alright.
	Let's continue with the calls, I promise.
	First time caller on the air with the Rod Guys.
	Oh, hi Art.
	Glad to talk to y'all.
	I had a question.
	I heard y'all say there might be some correlation between low frequency and rods showing up.
	Have you seen the rods on the site, sir?
	No.
	Oh, actually on your website, yes.
	Never seen them in real life.
	Really interested now.
	I was wondering if y'all had ever considered, maybe, I don't know how you would set up a low-frequency type of machinery, but I tried it at the cave.
	Uh-huh.
	Yeah, we're planning on that.
	We definitely have an expedition we're planning to go back to the cave.
	I've been there three times already with various new stations, and yeah, we want to go there with the proper equipment and do some, you know, high-frequency, low-frequency recordings.
	Yeah, why not, for example, put together a little Machine, Jose, inside a box.
	You hear me now?
	Inside some sort of thing that you can close and have a low frequency emitting and something moving very fast.
	Sure, like a centrifuge, so to speak.
	Yeah.
	The biggest thing we're talking about here is equipment.
	And what you need to understand is that we've been funding our own research out of our own pockets.
	Yeah.
	And except for an investor that came in last year and bought us a camera that we're currently using for this.
	Everything's been out of our own blood, sweat, and tears.
	And like I said, equipment equals money.
	And believe me, we've got a laundry list of equipment that we want.
	I'm sure you do.
	We want to try ways that we can analyze this.
	Different nets.
	Ken Swartz, I mentioned before back in Denver, has come up with different models of nets and stuff with us.
	And we've got the time, but right now it just comes down to funding the research itself.
	Well, if you had endless amounts of money, what would you do?
	Well, let's see.
	What's at the top of your wish list?
	The very first thing on my list, and I think Jose would agree with me on this, is a motion analysis camera.
	A camera that's capable of filming at very high frame rates and very high resolution at the same time.
	And also be able to do it more than 8 seconds at a time or something like that.
	We've found a couple of cameras that would fit the bill and would have to be portable and something we can use in the field.
	We know they're out there, but we're talking about $50,000 and up.
	Just to show up.
	I'm already off of the visual stuff.
	I'm ready to go catch one.
	I know at this cave.
	We had the right traps and the right system.
	We could definitely catch a rod.
	How would you endeavor to catch a rod?
	I know you talked about a couple being slow enough.
	Well, there's a lot of concerns here.
	One is you're talking about a pristine environment, and when you leave, you want to leave as least evidence as possible that you were even there.
	Because it's a national landmark of sorts.
	You could do a whole show in a cave by itself, believe me.
	So you would have to do something that was environmentally friendly.
	You would have to aim at, hopefully, a capture method that would preserve the rod, because right now, it looks like they're very delicate.
	I want to tell you how extreme it goes, just brainstorming one time.
	I came out with, what if we had an air cannon that shot out a big wad of corn syrup, you know, in a cloud and knocked this thing out?
	And you'd be able to stick the rod out of the mess.
	And then just let the recaro sir.
	I mean, we've gone that far with trying to think about ways we can catch rod.
	You haven't actually shot any corn syrup out yet.
	Not yet.
	I'm willing to do it.
	So that would be a budget.
	I'd give it a shot though.
	So it'd be like sliming a rod.
	I'm just showing you, just let people know.
	I mean, we've really looked at it.
	Right now, the best thing that we can look at Our similar methods they use for trapping insects.
	There's various shapes and forms.
	You can put them on top of moving vehicles, which eliminates that from the cave if we're going to do that there.
	That would be like a rod scoop.
	Using different kinds of attractants.
	Maybe you could put a low frequency device on the other end of a net of some kind.
	But all of this takes, it takes money.
	Yeah, and time.
	Yeah, I understand.
	And time is money, too.
	We've all got our day jobs.
	All right, hold on a moment.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with the Rod Guys.
	Well, I'll tell you guys, next time you get out of a cave, I'll supply a couple hundred square feet of mosquito netting and all the block attack that you need.
	There you go.
	I met you a couple of years ago at the San Mateo Marriott when Richard Hogan was doing a gig there, and you introduced me to Rods.
	When was this?
	and gave me a tape and I was quite intrigued.
	When was this?
	A couple years ago.
	Over in San Francisco?
	Yeah, in San Mateo.
	Yeah, we had a couple drinks together.
	Oh, that was great, man.
	It was a good time.
	I learned a lot that day, I'll tell you that much.
	But you really got me thinking about this stuff over the past two years, and I couldn't miss your show.
	Oh, well, thank you for tuning in.
	Have you seen the latest on the website, sir?
	Oh, all right.
	Top to bottom.
	Top to bottom.
	Top to bottom, absolutely.
	Now, did I misrepresent it, or are we presenting incontrovertible evidence?
	Well, I mean, obviously to you and me and 75% of your listeners out there, it's incontrovertible.
	But mainstream science is always going to say, you know what?
	We've got to look the other way to keep our tenures.
	That's about all they can do.
	I think to a scientist, when you say you're going to bring one in a jar full of formaldehyde as being incontrovertible evidence, I mean, that ultimately is the description of it.
	And they're still going to question it.
	Well, yeah.
	And obviously, if these little guys are made of water and a little tiny bit of matter... Hold on.
	Hold on.
	Everybody's trying to talk at once.
	We can't do that.
	But I think what we can definitely say with ease is that we're talking about the preponderance of the evidence, and especially as time goes on and we look at more details of what makes this phenomenon unique.
	All right.
	Caller?
	Yeah.
	Well, I have, you know, huge amounts of questions, but, you know, I don't want to take up too much time.
	Go ahead.
	Take your best shot.
	Just the top three.
	You know, I'm looking at a mosquito hawk dead on my ceiling.
	How come these guys never kind of, like, fly into the house?
	I mean, even birds every once in a while fly through an open window, and they're intelligent, so you kind of think that there's, you know, an avoidance thing going on there.
	Also, they're flying around at huge speeds, making huge amounts of turns, and they're also, you guys are kind of figuring out that they have some wing structure, and they're living within laws of physics, so they must be burning a huge amount of energy.
	What do they eat?
	There's a lot of questions there.
	Why don't they ever fly into a house?
	I think the answer is... They have footage.
	It has happened.
	I had an experience recently where, in the last year, where we think that we had an alarm going off at a studio we were working at at the time, and we both had a rod siding at the same time, and we kind of wondered if maybe that was setting off the alarm.
	That's interesting.
	And your other question, sir?
	Yeah, the other question was, what are these guys eating?
	I mean, they're flying through the air all the time on every piece of footage, and they're burning a lot of energy.
	That energy's got to come from somewhere.
	Yep, it sure does.
	Gentlemen, you did point out in the one really close-up of a rod that it almost looked like some sort of something at the front of the rod opening, which would indicate it takes in or expels air, and or also Gets nutrition in some way.
	What's your best guess in that category?
	How do they eat?
	Well, I think right now is our best bet.
	I don't know if it's our best guess, but our best bet is that they might also be feeding on insects.
	Really?
	Really?
	Possibly.
	We don't know.
	You know, this is twofold.
	Because one thing is that the largest single biomass on this planet is insects.
	And people go, well, why don't you see rods?
	Where's evidence of their carcasses and stuff like that?
	Well, consider that the single largest biomass is attributed to arthropods on this planet, and we hardly notice them as it is.
	But at the same time, being the single largest biomass, they could possibly be a food source for rods.
	Have we any video evidence yet of a rod consuming anything?
	No, not yet.
	OK.
	Now, we've had reports of insects milling about in a cloud, and rods flying through the cloud.
	You know, similar to maybe how a predatory fish would swim through a school of bugs.
	Sure, sure.
	Whether they ate bugs, we don't know.
	Okay, good honest answer.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with the Rod Guys.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	You're going to have to get on a regular phone, sir.
	Okay, Art, you hear me now?
	Yeah, much better.
	Art, this is Jerry.
	How you doing?
	Fine, Jerry.
	Hi, Jerry.
	Jose and James.
	How you doing?
	How you doing, bud?
	Alright, uh, listen, uh, I haven't got a chance to see your website pictures yet.
	Well, you, you, okay, too bad.
	But I believe I know what you're talking about here with these rides.
	Okay.
	Um, I don't know if you're familiar with the name of Charles Hickson, Art?
	No.
	Okay, he was supposedly, uh, he said he had an experience with a UFO down here in Pascagoula.
	Yes, I remember Charles Hickson.
	Okay.
	I remember seeing him on, uh, a Geraldo thing.
	Right.
	A few years back, him and I used to be real good fishing buddies.
	Is he still living?
	No, he's not.
	Does that rest his soul?
	Anyway, we used to do a lot of fishing down here in the bayous.
	He's the one that introduced me to these rods.
	Really?
	I just wanted to confirm, or I think I'm going to confirm what you said, that they eat insects.
	Because when we would see these, and I heard you say you had a four foot rod on your website?
	Yep.
	We've never seen anything that large.
	Down here.
	The biggest one we've seen was maybe six inches long at the most.
	And they all seem to come from the swamp area.
	And so we assume they would feed on larvae.
	How did you see them, sir?
	Straight on?
	I mean, you saw them straight on when you were fishing?
	They would approach us.
	They wouldn't get too close.
	Of course, I had a I had a cat.
	I don't know if it had anything to do with it.
	He liked to go fishing with us.
	But the rod, they would come in like packs of five, maybe five to eight.
	Were they in the water or off the water?
	No, they were above the water.
	Above the water.
	And every time they would approach... Did they ever slow down?
	They wasn't moving very fast.
	And I'm not sure if you're aware of South Mississippi.
	It's a high humidity area.
	Oh, yes.
	Very swampy.
	I just don't want to take a lot of your time.
	I just wanted to kind of confirm what you were saying.
	I'd like for you to stay in contact with us.
	If you could email us or, you know.
	Right.
	That was Skyfish, you said?
	Right.
	It's Skyfish at PackBell.net.
	PackBell.net.
	Yes, sir.
	All right.
	I got you.
	All right.
	I appreciate your show, bud.
	All right.
	Thank you very much for calling.
	Take care.
	Thank you.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with the Rod Guys.
	Hello.
	Hello, this is Cindy in Anchorage, and I've first got to say I'm so glad you're back.
	My nightlife can begin again.
	Thank you, Cindy.
	One of my questions was, was there ever any documentation or any idea that these rods can move anything physical?
	Can move anything physical?
	Yeah, in other words, if they smack into something, have you ever seen a rod move anything?
	Cause anything to move?
	You know, mass on mass, colliding on mass?
	Well, other than if... Referee?
	I mean, if you want to say if they hit a windshield of a car, they're getting... The car's moving the rod, they're not moving the car.
	Not to be facetious, but if they're... The way they're moving through the air, they're moving the molecules of the air for propulsion.
	I'm not quite sure what you mean, though.
	Well, the reason I ask is you talked about some of their playful nature and the way that they would move around the man who was falling.
	Right.
	When you see these things moving out of the corner of your eye, and it's probably the one thing in common almost everybody has, is they have seen something move.
	But I'm talking in particular about an item that might be, you know it was there.
	Alright, for example, guys, a feather that would be sticking up in the air and a rod smashes into it going a hundred miles an hour.
	You would imagine the feather might, you know, move a little bit.
	Yeah, I think that's what she's saying.
	Well, the guys who claim to have Really?
	Yes.
	and put it in a bottle and it turned to dust and with that story they said that the rods
	were actually impacting their body.
	They could not only feel it hit them but it was also they could see their shirt or whatever
	clothing they were wearing dent in with the impact.
	Really?
	Yes.
	Does that answer your question ma'am?
	Yeah that does.
	I mean it's more than just something floating through the air.
	I mean that would say it would have masked if you can.
	If it moves.
	Yes.
	And plus, when entering the water, it definitely makes a splash and leaves a bubble trail.
	Or a ripple.
	A ripple.
	Yeah.
	And they said they've got a video where you can actually see some bubbles.
	Is that right, guys?
	Yeah.
	It's just like somebody shot a bullet into the water.
	That's what kind of bubble trail it is.
	You can see it break the surface and it leaves a bubble trail that streams behind it.
	Yeah.
	And also, one other thing.
	About ten years ago, I don't see them as often as I used to, but I used to see quite a bit of movement out of the corner of my eye, you know, peripheral vision.
	Yep.
	And somebody had said to me, oh, well, they're here for your protection.
	Really?
	And I just, you know, it gives me goosebumps now to think that, you know, that they would hang around my front door.
	Uh-huh.
	And it was when I was living by myself with my kids.
	And she says, oh, well, they're here for your protection.
	You can definitely see them with the naked eye.
	Pardon?
	You can definitely see them with the naked eye.
	And you can train yourself to see them straight on instead of just sort of peripherally.
	And you shouldn't be afraid of these things because, you know... Oh, I wasn't.
	I never was afraid, ever.
	And everybody that was in the room, oh, you know, when I began to mention it more and more and more, then other people started to see the movement also.
	They said, well, they're here for your protection.
	All right.
	We're really almost out of time, guys.
	Art, I've got to say something.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	I'm going to and I've got to plug my stuff, man.
	I've got to pay my sponsors.
	I'm going to be at the Northwest UFO Paranormal Conference in Seattle at the Art Bell Chat Clip Conference, dude.
	OK.
	This is happening Memorial Day weekend.
	It's on Friday, May 25th.
	They can access the information on my website.
	I'm going to be there with Peter Davenport, who's what are you, Gaston?
	Oh, yes.
	Pamela Stonebrook and Brian.
	All my buds, baby.
	Dr. Roger Lear, the whole shebang.
	We're going to be there.
	And I'm going to present Rod, man.
	We're going to show the stuff that we just talked about and more.
	Really?
	You make the plug, dude.
	No doubt, some new stuff, too.
	Oh, yeah.
	All right.
	I'm going to show the ocean footage, all the good stuff.
	That's May 25th.
	May 25th.
	Is James going to be there?
	No, unfortunately, they haven't planned to have him there.
	We're going to be coming back from England at that time.
	access the information on my website www.roswellrods.com.
	Is James going to be there?
	No, unfortunately they haven't planned to have him there.
	We're going to be coming back from England at that time.
	I see.
	By the way, James is getting married, dude.
	I'm getting married this year.
	Are you really?
	Yeah.
	And hello to Tracy, sweetheart.
	I know you're going to be listening to this on the internet.
	Love you, baby.
	He's in love, man.
	I'm going to tell you.
	And I'm the best man.
	I'm the best Rodman there.
	I'm the best Rodman.
	Oh, my.
	Hey, when it comes down to it, man, we're just regular people.
	I hear you.
	Who have made an incredible discovery.
	And it's real.
	I want to thank you for giving us this venue.
	It's an incredible thing, and I appreciate the respect that you treat the subject.
	It's rare.
	It shouldn't be so rare.
	I mean, it's right in front of your eyes.
	Listen, gentlemen, thank you and good night.
	Thank you, Art.
	Take care.
	All right, there you have it, folks.
	You think a little bit about that.
	Something else, sharing the same space with us.
	Something in all probability, living, everything points toward it.
	And by the way, if you have not seen it yet, the material will remain on my website.
	You can go peruse it during the day today.
	Tonight, when I come back, assuming this cold does not strangle me, we're going to do Ghost to Ghost, and I've got a little surprise for you at the beginning.

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