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Feb. 22, 2001 - Art Bell

02:51:16

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Jose Escamilla - Invisible Flying Creatures, Rods Revisited

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01:12:04

jose escamilla

33:51

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Ark Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 22nd, 2001.
		From the high desert and the great American subwest of you all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening and or good morning wherever you may be across this great land of ours.
		From the Tahitian and Hawaiian Islands in the west, but now further west in Guam, east all the way to the U.S. Virgin Islands, the Caribbean, South, into South America, north, definitely to the Pole, and worldwide on the internet.
		This is Coast of Coast AM and I'm R. And this is going to be a very special night.
		Call a friend.
		Do whatever you've got to do because tonight we are going to prove to you.
		And I don't frequently use that word.
		We are going to prove to you that we coexist on this planet with other living creatures that are all around us.
		And again, you don't frequently hear me use the word prove or convince or present overwhelming evidence of something this strange, but we're going to do it tonight.
		We're going to convince you.
		We're going to provide overwhelming evidence.
		We are going to blow your mind.
		Some guy doesn't like the fact that I use that expression.
		So every time I do it, he sends me an email.
unidentified		Going to blow your mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's going to center.
		We're going to give the website a big stress test tonight.
		We're going to put it up on a running belt and see how far it'll go.
		Because the proof is on the website.
		Jose Escimilia is going to be here in the next hour.
		And Jose, over the years, has been a friend for a long time.
		Jose has done something that I think the scientists, and I mean the mainstream scientists that are listening tonight, had better pay attention to.
		So if you're in mainstream science and you have an open mind, even a little bitty open mind, stick around.
		Because tonight, we're going to pry it open and we're going to prove to you that we coexist on this planet with another life form that nobody knows anything about except all of you who are going to listen to this program.
		Jose Escamilia has been talking about rods for years now.
		Tonight on the website, we're presenting incontrovertible evidence that we're coexisting on the planet with another living form, another life form, another perhaps even intelligent life form.
		We don't know.
		But the evidence is there in still photographs.
		new still photographs i'm sure you've never seen the evidence is there in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15.
		In about 15, if I counted correctly, and I might not have.
		Moving videos in real audio and MPEG video.
		Proof.
		Moving video.
		Proof of rods.
		And I tell you, ladies and gentlemen, incontrovertible proof, this is not a minor claim to make.
		So here's the deal.
		I don't know how the website's going to handle it all.
		We've got a pretty big pipe, so it may do all right.
		But before Jose gets here, next hour, I want to start you up there right now and have you take a look.
		Number two, I have a really cool new t-shirt.
		You can see that on the webcam.
		You've got to see my new t-shirt.
		It really is very, very cool.
		All right, having said that, number two, you're all going to have to bear with me because I'm coming down with a cold.
		It has been trying to get me for the last four days.
		You know how it is when, usually when I get a cold, I just, you know, I start sneezing and hacking and then I go through the cycle.
		This one, this cold or the flu has been trying to get me for days now.
		Kind of on the edge.
unidentified		You know, it doesn't quite have me yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it's like saying, I'm going to get you.
		And it keeps coming on a little more and more and more.
		So I'm fighting a cold tonight.
		Bear with me.
unidentified		Bear with me.
		Bear with me.
		Now let's go back to the night of February 22, 2001 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Art Bell, Somewhere in Time The environment close to me is of some interest tonight because I just got an email today from the Radon Earthquake Predictor Guy.
		This is a fellow that through the years has been flawless in his predictions.
		He does it by measuring the radon gas emissions from the wall of a well.
		And I don't know what else.
		See, my own computer's running.
		So anyway, he has predicted, get this, folks, a 5.2 earthquake near Prump, Nevada.
		Oh, wonderful.
		Now, as you know, we've been having earthquakes, little ones circling my area, and now he's saying 5.2 near us.
		Isn't that wonderful?
		Within 72 hours.
		And he's predicting a 5.5 earthquake in the Bay Area, Northern California, within 72 hours.
		So, not saying it's going to happen.
		Just saying, I've been following this fellow for years and years, and now I have officially registered his latest prediction.
		All right, now NASA today had a news conference, and now I guess we know something we didn't know before.
		We all thought the dinosaurs were destroyed by an asteroid, and I guess we still think that.
		But we know something new tonight.
		Asteroids crashing into Earth have virtually wiped out life, not once, but at least twice, scientists reported today.
		So in other words, we used to think that it was just the dinos that went, right?
		Now they're saying they have evidence that it's happened before, at least twice now, they say.
		An asteroid or comet, reading the Reuters story here, roughly the same size as the one that wiped out the dinosaurs 65 million years ago, did even worse damage, lo and behold, 250 million years ago.
		This was published in Friday's issue of the journal Science.
		The evidence comes from space gases trapped in little carbon spheres called buckyballs in ancient layers of sediment.
		They show the Permian extinction event, which most species on the planet disappeared with, began with a big cosmic collision.
		The impact releases an amount of energy, get this, that is basically about, if you can even calculate this in your mind, one million times the largest earthquake recorded during the last century.
		One million times that size.
		Robert Peretta, associate professor of Earth and Environmental Sciences at the University of Rochester, said all that.
		Said the comet or asteroid would have to have been, oh, I don't know, somewhere between four and eight miles across.
		The jolt roused volcanoes, which buried huge areas in lava, sent up ash to join the dust from the explosion to plunge the entire world into centuries of unnatural dark and cold.
		Trilobites, strange cockroach-like creatures that once ruled the planet, died out completely.
		It was all over for the trilobites.
		All 15,000 species of them, 90% of all marine creatures and 70% of land vertebrates went extinct.
		So, is it really so hard, folks, to imagine that life may have come and gone on Earth many, many times?
unidentified		Many times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to read you an email, and I'm telling you right off the top, this email is creepy.
		Creepy, I say.
		I want to talk to this gentleman.
		I'd like to put him on the air.
		He may not come on.
		We'll see.
		Art, I've been wanting to share this information with you for a long time now, but never sat down to write about it.
		In the late 1980s and early 90s, I was stationed at Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
		I was a nuclear weapons technician on what was known as Sandia Base weapons storage area.
		This was a mountain that was hollowed out for storage of thousands of nuclear weapons.
		On this mountain, there were four main plants.
		Plant three and four was where we worked on the weapons.
		Plant one was for Sandia laboratory personnel, and plant two was something even more secret.
		Around and inside the mountain were an additional 122 bunkers that were used for storage.
		About 80 of them were used to store nuclear weapons, and the others were Sandia labs.
		The whole mountain was surrounded with double electrified fences, underground sensors, plus a whole squadron of security police.
		I was stationed on this base for six years and have seen and heard a lot.
		One particular bit of information that you will find interesting is that nuclear weapons were classified a priority A resource.
		Well, that means they were to be defended and protected at all costs.
		We were told by security police, though, that if terrorists were to attack the mountain and had gained entry into a bunker and had possession of a nuclear weapon, and that at the same time a second group of terrorists were trying to gain entry into plant one, then to let them have the nuclear weapons and protect plant two with your lives.
		Plant two was off-limits for us normal military.
		We were never allowed inside.
		The entrance was guarded by elite security of an unknown organization, and they made sure we never got close.
		Every week or two, every week rather, two of us enlisted personnel were assigned on-call alarm support.
		That means it was our job to promptly arrive at the base after any alarms in those bunkers went off, which was quite often, and open the bunker for an alarm technician to find out what went wrong.
		More times than any, it was just a mouse that had sent the alarm off.
		But with nuclear weapons being stored in these bunkers, it required two of us to open them called the two-man rule.
		One time during my turn at alarm support, I was called in at about 2 a.m.
		An alarm had gone off in one of the bunkers we never used for weapons storage.
		We had to get a special set of keys to open this bunker, and security police came with us and stood guard outside with armed M16s, or armed with M16s.
		I could tell by All the dirt buildup along the outer door and just inside, that this bunker hadn't been opened in some time.
		We got both blast doors open and let the alarm technician in to see what was wrong.
		When we entered the main chamber, which was about 60 feet long, I noticed rows of what looked like lead coffins.
		They were about 8 feet long and 3 feet wide and 3 feet tall.
		There must have been 6 rows of them and 4 deep.
		There was a fence separating us from these coffins with warning signs not to enter.
		This gives you a little idea of what was going on at this base.
		Below, he says, are some links about the base and so forth and so on.
		But I thought that you all should hear that.
		What do you suppose would have been inside those lead coffins?
		I've been wondering about that all day long since I got the email.
		So if this man would like to call me, and I kind of doubt he will, by the way, I think Keith is posting this on the website for you.
unidentified		I'll put him on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's just, you know, I get a lot of emails.
		I mean, I really, I get maybe 2,000 a day.
		And it's hard to read them all, but I do my very best.
		I spend a lot of hours reading email, believe me.
		So I read as much as I can.
		But every now and then, one comes along that strikes me as true.
		This one strikes me as true.
		And so I wonder what was in those coffins.
		And I wonder if this man will call me.
		You know, to get rid of this damn cold, I've got to admit it right now, Dr. Day, if you're listening, I would eat five lima beans right now to make this cold go away.
		So, Dr. Day, you're right.
		Once struck down in one's relative youth with a cold, why, one would do nearly anything.
		I didn't say I'd chew the damn things.
		I'd swallow them whole, but I'd down five lima beans, which I have not done as an adult with choice.
		I no longer eat lima beans.
		You didn't hear last night's show.
		That might not mean much, but one more thing.
		I got this email tonight, and it worries me.
		Hello, Art.
		My name is, I'm not going to give the fellow's name, he put it here, and I work with Environment Canada, Atmospheric Environment Service.
		And you know, Art, I've got to say that the weather out here in Western Canada has been very, very strange.
		With little snow, but lots of sunshine, as it has been the second driest month of February on record, I don't know, might have something to do with HAARP.
		Anyway, I'm wondering if you can send or tell me something or give me some information on HAARP and the weather changes it can do.
		This is very interesting.
		And, you know, it bothers me a little that somebody with this position working with Environment, Canada, Atmospheric, Environmental Service, would come to me to get information on why the weather is going wacky.
		If he's coming to me, we're really in trouble.
		By the way, I should have mentioned it a week ago.
		Our sun has flipped.
		It has flipped polarities.
		You know, we have a sun cycle, and the flipping of the polarities is the marker indicating that we've reached the peak of the solar cycle.
		And conversely, when we get into the valley, when we get into the lowest point of the solar cycle, there is another polarity flip.
		And we head in the other direction.
		So we just flipped.
		The sun just flipped.
		Oh, and one more little thing, and then we'll start take some calls here until we get to Jose Escamilia.
		I don't know how strongly I can tell you.
		Go to my website, www.arpel.com.
		Go to the guest info and start watching all of these.
		Look at the still photos and then start watching the video presentations of rods by the time it's over.
		And by the time you've heard Jose, you will be given proof that we coexist on this planet with others, with another life form, intelligent or not.
		I think Jose can make the case they are, but you didn't know they were there, did you?
		These things that fly in our air, that swim in our air as a fish would swim in the sea.
		They're here.
		They've been here.
		And we just now know about them.
		And you'll believe that when you go through the various stills and moving videos.
		Now listen.
		The headline is, UK, United Kingdom biologist says, U.S. has bacteria which could kill all plant life.
		From Wellington, a royal commission investigating genetic modification was in uproar on Monday after a scientist claimed the United States had engineered a bacterium with the potential to kill all plant life on the planet.
		Yeah, you heard me right.
		But a group representing pro-genetic science groups has responded by claiming that American biologist Elaine Ingham had misrepresented her research.
		The Royal Commission on Genetic Modification has been hearing evidence in Wellington for about two months now.
		And earlier, the Green Party called the Oregon State University soil biologist who told the Commission that the engineered bacterium had the potential to kill all life if released into the environment.
		Dr. Ingram made outrageous and scientifically unsupported assertions.
		Ingram said the bacterium had gained American regulatory approval, then killed all the wheat plants it was added to, contributing to a conclusion that changing the beneficial life in soil put the continued survival of humans at risk by affecting vital nutrients, water quality, and the ability to suppress disease.
		Maybe we should talk with Dr. Ingham, huh?
		Sounds like somebody I would like to interview.
		Anyway, there's a big argument about it, but this fellow basically is saying that the U.S. has this bacteria that could kill all the plant life, all the plant life on planet Earth.
		Well, what if it's true?
		What if we do have something that will do that?
		Something that will kill all the plant life on Earth.
		I wonder where we got that, by the way.
		And incidentally, you might want to consider what Ed Dames had to say about cows and children and milk.
		Remember all that that so many people thought was so outrageous?
	And then consider this mad cow thing in light of what Ed Dames said way back when.
	Just think about it a little bit is all I'm saying.
	And then I run into this story about the U.S. having some sort of bacteria that could actually destroy all plant life on Earth.
	And think back to some of the things that Ed had to say.
	Pretty interesting stuff, isn't it?
	Tonight's going to be quite a night.
	You better get a jump on seeing what we've got on the website right now because it's going to get real busy up there.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 22, 2001.
		Suddenly I just woke up to a happy night.
		When you find me that you love the future, be high.
		Because when you've got to turn around, you don't just care.
		music
		music music
		music music music music
		music music
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an oncore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 22nd, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the program.
		Those of you who join at this hour, anything is possible tonight.
		Anything at all?
		Who knows?
unidentified		but then again that's kind of the way i like it you Now let's go back to the night of February 22, 2001 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let us see what awaits on the line, shall we?
		On the first time caller line, you are on the air.
		Cheerio.
unidentified		Hi, Arch.
		Hi.
		Listen, you're going to have the rod guy on tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The rod guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's Jose Escamilia.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		Well, now, I am a Uranta book student.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And you have read the Urantia book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have.
unidentified		And I have this philosophy about what the rods might mean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that would be.
unidentified		That would be possibly midwayers.
		There are beings between angels and men and the higher celestials that are midwayers.
		And they tend to the planet, put it that way.
		They do maintenance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
		I don't know if I believe spiritual maintenance or not.
		But they're doing something.
		They're a definite life form.
		They definitely coexist with us on the planet.
		I think Jose Escamilia has proven this.
		This is a big thing.
unidentified		I agree.
		I agree.
		Now, I also, I chat with one of your chat room folks and chat channels on IRC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		And one of the Nicks mentioned something that the rods look like kids' straws.
		Now, you know how they're lumpy or something?
		I don't know, kids' straws.
		I don't know what that means.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't really buy in that.
		If you look at the rods, I suppose They might have a relationship to that shape.
		But clearly, they seem designed to do exactly what they're doing, and that is to move through our atmosphere like a fish would move in water.
		It's not really flying that they're doing, but they're moving through this atmosphere.
unidentified		But they have to have a purpose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm sure they have a purpose.
unidentified		And what do you think their purpose is?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It beats the hell out of me.
		But I mean, just knowing that something else is here.
		We'll ask Jose about what he believes their purpose might be.
		I sure don't know.
unidentified		Really, exactly.
unidentified		Please, Archie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you seen the stills?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you seen the videos?
unidentified		I have seen them in the past.
		I mean, before your recent reincarnation, but this is new stuff, dear.
		Oh, okay.
		No, I have not seen those.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, this is new stuff.
		There's a whole bunch of moving videos up there.
		You've got to go see them.
unidentified		Well, I will.
unidentified		And, you know, please, the spiritual aspect, I think, is very important.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think that's jumping to conclusions.
		I appreciate the call, but I think you're leaping to conclusions.
		It's going to be hard enough to get people to believe their eyes and to believe the truth.
		That is that they are here and they are around us right now.
		Rods are around you right now, if not possibly even going through you, although they may.
		We'll talk about that.
		But they're here.
		They are sharing this planet with us.
		And we can prove it.
		I don't want to leap off into complete empty space by talking about whether rods are spiritual or not.
		They may not have any more spiritual nature than a buggy'd swat.
		Or they may.
		But I don't want to jump off into that area yet.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Hello?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you're on the air.
		Radio off.
		Voice up.
unidentified		Oh.
unidentified		Oh, is this Armbell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be me.
unidentified		Oh, how you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm okay, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm calling from Garden Grove, California.
		Okay.
		My name's Al.
		And I had an experience with this flying rod about 25 years ago.
		Me and some friends were, well, we were young back then.
		We were in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		25 years ago?
unidentified		About 25 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we were all young back then.
unidentified		Yeah, we, well, compared to now.
		Yeah, we were doing some pot.
		Uh-huh.
		And back in Mexicali.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you were stoned in Mexicali, right?
unidentified		Yeah, stoned in Mexicali.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that's the setup for this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, already your credibility is running up there at a high 10, but go ahead.
unidentified		Okay.
		And we were kind of stoned, and we saw everything like in slow motion, you know.
		Yeah.
		You know, like a friend of mine had a beer and he dropped it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So wait a minute now.
		Let's be sure we've got the setup straight.
		Now you're not just stoned, but you're drinking beer too, right?
unidentified		Well not me, but you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was drinking beer.
unidentified		Some other guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you were just smoking the pot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was smoking the pot and drinking beer.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and so what did he do?
unidentified		So he dropped his beer, and I saw the beads of the beer come out really slow, you know?
unidentified		I saw a can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In slow motion, yeah.
unidentified		In slow motion, right.
unidentified		After about 20 minutes, I saw this, what I thought were worms that were flying just around us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Worms.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think that you were seeing rods?
unidentified		Yes, that's what I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		all right well maybe you were seeing rods but you've got to know that your your little uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		preamble here how you saw them is going to cause a lot of people to say I was zone.
unidentified		But here's the funny thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No flying elephants, just rods.
unidentified		No, Joe, just no words.
		The funny thing is that I thought I was hallucinating, and then my friend, who was also smoking pot, got up and he said, he said, the worms, the worms.
		No, he said, the snakes, there's snakes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The snakes, the snakes, flying snakes.
unidentified		I thought about that.
unidentified		I said, well, maybe those were the rods after now seeing the pictures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now you have seen the photographs.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good for you.
		Good for you.
		So at the moment you saw them, you thought, my God, those are the rods I saw?
		Those are the snakes he saw.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		You know, I know, you know, a lot of people would not believe it because, you know, we were stoned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, was there any relationship to how many hits of weed you had and how many rods you saw?
unidentified		No, no, not really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So once sufficiently stoned, you're saying that the door is open and it's rod-billed?
unidentified		Well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has that happened since?
unidentified		No, of course not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it was a one-time thing?
unidentified		Yeah, it was a one-time thing I've done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		you mean the pot smoking or the seeing of the rocks 20 years.
unidentified		22 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		22.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in the three years that you still smoked, you never saw him again.
unidentified		Nah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I certainly appreciate the testimonial, and I'm sure that Jose will add that right on to his list of high proof regarding rods.
		You never know.
		You wouldn't take that one into a congressional hearing, you know, but it was kind of interesting on ballots.
		It really was kind of interesting.
		Even though I know a lot of you will say, yeah, right, sure.
		I'm surprised he didn't see elephants.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Thank you.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I'm on the air right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, excuse me.
unidentified		Okay, let me turn my radio off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good for you.
unidentified		Okay, it's off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Thank you.
		I'm just listening.
		The girl that just called in about the rod guy.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think that was a guy.
unidentified		A guy?
		Okay.
		I have to apologize.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you talking about the fellow who's talking about smoking a joint?
unidentified		No, no, no, the one before that.
		Oh.
		The one before that.
		And I have to say, I've never done drugs or alcohol.
		Okay.
		But I've always seen the rods.
		They're calling the rods.
		They're like an eighth of a quarter inch long.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's subjective.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At what distance?
unidentified		Right in front of your face.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right in front of your face.
unidentified		Yeah, I've seen these ever since I can remember.
		I call them prana.
		I call this the prana energy.
		This is the energy that we heal with.
		It's a healing energy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you know that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, the last girl you spoke about was saying they were spiritual beings.
unidentified		Well, everything is spiritual, and everything has consciousness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not everything is spiritual.
unidentified		Well, everything has consciousness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe.
unidentified		And everything originates in spirit.
		That's what I mean by spiritual.
		Everything originates in spirit before it manifests into the material.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My old dirty white shoes here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's nothing too spiritual about them.
unidentified		Yeah, but they used to be alive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I don't know about that.
		I don't know if these were alive.
		I don't think these were alive.
		Alive stuff, now dead, costs more.
		This is some sort of synthetic.
unidentified		Yeah, isn't that ridiculous?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this is some kind of synthetic stuff, you know.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Oh, synthetic is man-made.
		That's from an oil.
		Most of the synthetic stuff is.
		Yeah, there is some oil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, which I suppose way back when, perhaps a dinosaur.
unidentified		Right, exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Spiritual dinosaur.
unidentified		But my experience with what people are calling the rods.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay, this is prana energy.
		And it's a healing energy.
		And you use your mind to direct it and focus it.
		And some people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As in prayer?
unidentified		Prayer is one way.
unidentified		Prayer and meditation are so closely related.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see what I'm talking about, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe they are the things that respond to prayer.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I guess then why do they only sometimes respond to it if that's what they do?
unidentified		It's a receptivity of the individual.
		Some people are open to things and some people are not.
		And when they're mentally closed, they actually close down the body.
		They actually close down their receptivity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The big question for you would be, how do you know that's what they are?
unidentified		You could say that it's an inner knowing.
unidentified		And I've had experience working with this energy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you could say that.
unidentified		Yeah, but this is my reality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, and I honor your reality.
		What am I going to say?
		I don't know what the rods are.
		I can't go out on that kind of limb.
		I don't know that they're spiritual.
		I don't know that they're healing things.
		I don't know that they're not some sort of other-dimensional insect.
		They're not a terrestrial insect.
		There's proof of that up there.
		So that's another thing about Rods.
		It was an insect.
		Your camera operating at the speed and aperture setting and so forth and so on.
		It was an insect.
		Well, they've got proof up there that it's not an insect.
		They show an insect and then a rod, and then an insect and a bird and then a rod.
		In moving video, go take a look for yourself.
		I'm telling you, this is very, very convincing stuff.
		On the international line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, hello.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm okay, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm actually in Ontario.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ontario.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, turn your radio off.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm sorry to keep it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn the radio off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or it'll all confuse you and you'll sound strange on the radio.
unidentified		Yeah, fair enough.
unidentified		I was just actually inquiring about the Promise software.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About what?
unidentified		Promise software?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is that?
unidentified		Well, that's what I'm kind of confused about.
unidentified		I've just been reading about certain issues with that relating to a software that was created by a gentleman in the United States, I believe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What does the software do?
unidentified		Well, it's actually relative to just trying to think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Try real hard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's relative to what does the software do?
unidentified		What does it do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, what does it do?
unidentified		What doesn't it do?
		It's in various functions of dabbling in everything.
		There's actually, I wasn't actually the, I was surprised I got through because I've been trying for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Various functions of dabbling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Politicians give better answers than that.
unidentified		Yeah, I know, I understand.
		I wasn't actually the person that wanted to talk about the issue.
		I'm just relating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know who you are?
unidentified		Do I know who I am?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Very briefly, I haven't answered one of the primary questions of reality yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, then when you come to grips with who you are, then you can talk to all of us.
		Because it doesn't sound like you've come to grips with who you are, much less what it is, whatever it is you were talking about there.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yeah, hi, Eric.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I was wondering if you got an email from me earlier in the week.
		I live in Sarasota.
		And I listened to you on 790 WFLA.
		And I emailed you about the Skunk Ape.
		okay i got about two thousand emails or three thousand maybe or four thousand on the skunk ape and well it My boyfriend and I were staying out by Maiaca, which was, well, it is out east of Sarasota.
		Right.
		And we were staying in one of those old aluminum trailers.
		Right.
		And something about 3 o'clock in the morning tore down about 10 feet of fence, jumped on top of the trailer, dented it, ran the whole length of it and took off.
		It was making grunting, squealing kind of noises.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're thinking you had a close encounter of the skunk cape kind?
unidentified		Oh yeah.
unidentified		My brother-in-law and my husband did all that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now that would freak anybody out big time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would it do that?
unidentified		I don't know.
unidentified		That's what I kind of wondered because we've had that story of the skunk ape apes around here for a long time, at least 20, 30 years, that I've heard of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you know sometimes when you've got a box and you've got a content, you want to eat something and it just won't come out and you turn the box upside down and you shake it trying to get it out.
unidentified		That's not what it was trying to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe it was trying to get you to run out of the box, you know.
unidentified		But I had to laugh.
		Oh, no, we didn't.
		No, not till morning.
		I was kind of laughing about what you said about all the bubbas running around with their guns.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, going trying to hunt down a skunk ape, bring one home.
unidentified		Yeah, well, my husband and his brother and friends.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So don't tell me they were going to do it.
unidentified		No, they used to go hunting out that way in deer season.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, I've got to run.
		I appreciate your call, but this half hour is ending.
		I wish I had more time with you.
		Try and call me again and get through, all right?
unidentified		Well, what it came down to, it scared them, and they left.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't blame them a bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have a good night.
unidentified		You too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Close encounter of the skunk ape kind.
		All right, coming up, it'll blow your mind.
		Another email comes my way.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 22, 2001.
		I never see you and you're good to be, but you're in my way.
		Well, here's a broken view, you're gonna choke on it too.
		You're gonna lose that smile because of the wild.
		I could see for miles and miles.
		I could see for miles and miles.
		I could see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles.
		Oh, yeah.
		You took advantage of my shirt and you and I were so far away.
		We'll be right back.
		For worldwide humiliation, it's the world.
		City light painted up in the day.
		Nothing matters.
		It's the night.
		Doesn't matter in the night, no control through the wall.
		Something like wearing mine as I'm walking down the street of the soul.
		You take yourself, take another home.
		You count me living only for the night.
		Before the morning of the story's own.
		You take yourself, you take a double.
		Another night, another day over.
		Another stop, another one over.
		You have to get to play my home.
		You take me up, you take my love.
		I am among the creatures.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired February 22nd, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As sure as I know that I'm a creature of the night, I know that we share this world of ours with other creatures that you don't know anything about.
		Tonight is going to be a mind-expanding experience for you.
		If there are legitimate scientists out there of whatever discipline, then I suggest you open your minds a little crack further, and we will prove to you before the night is over that we share this planet with another life force.
		I don't know what they are.
		They're called rods.
		Jose Escamilia, who I believe is the discoverer of rods, calls them rods, and so probably he could have called them Escimelias.
		But he calls them rods.
		You can't see them, but occasionally.
		The man last hour who had smoked some pots that he saw them.
		But we have incontrovertible video and still photography tonight that will prove to you that, in fact, the rods are here.
		They are some kind of life form.
		They live in our atmosphere much as a fish lives in water with some distinct differences.
		They may be intelligent, but they're not.
		That's something we'll ask about.
		But one thing's for sure, they are here.
		And we've got the proof on the website right now.
		We're going to be discussing it, so I suggest you merge with us.
		The way you do that is go to www.artbellartel.com.
unidentified		You have a computer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You go to click on program, and then tonight's guest info, you will see the name Jose Escamelia.
		Below it, you will see three Links, the first of which says photos and videos of rods.
		When you click on that, you will see a large number of very, very impressive still photographs of rods, and we're going to talk about those.
		And then you will see a whole bunch of real video clips and MPEG video clips.
		And by the time you've made it through those, and we're going to talk about them singly here in a moment, if you don't believe, as we believe, and I say we, as in Jose and myself, I don't often say that I think we've got incontrovertible evidence of something, but here I think we do.
		You don't hear me say that very frequently.
		This is an important program, and this is an important subject.
		And I would like some legitimate scientists to kind of move along with us through the night.
		You're welcome to do it as well.
		It will blow your mind.
		I have one listener who hates it when I say that, so I'm trying to use it as often as I can.
		Now, all of that is coming up and information about Jose himself, but start up to the website right now and begin to get a look.
		We'll describe to you what you're seeing, although you probably don't need that.
		You'll be amazed at what you're seeing.
		To imagine that we coexist with another life form on the planet right now, and that they're all around you, possibly even going through you right now.
		A whole nother life form.
		That's kind of a revelation, isn't it?
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		Now let's go back to the night of February 22, 2001 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Music.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now comes Jose Escamilia.
		By the way, folks, again, bear with me.
		I'm getting a cold.
		It's been trying to get me now for four days, so just bear with me.
		Producer-director Jose Escamilia has been editing film and video for over 17 years.
		Video productions in release nationwide include LA Gang Violence, a documentary about LA gangs and Donnie, The Educational Dinosaur, a cartoon series starring Ruth Buzzy.
		No kidding.
		Richard Moll, Susie Kurtz, Brenda Vaccero, Kathy Ireland.
		No kidding.
		Ed Begley Jr., Dr. Joyce Brothers, Tom Bosley, Carlos Palmino, and Nel Carter.
		Wow.
		There's too much to read here about Jose.
		He's 40 years old, born in Denver, Colorado, has a strong physical science background.
		He attended Texas A ⁇ M University as a geology major.
		After marrying and becoming a father, James joined the Medical Corps of the U.S. Army as a preventive medicine specialist whose mission is the prevention of disease and non-battle-related injuries.
		Completed training at the top of his class as an honor graduate.
		Courses included entomology training for the capture, identification, and control of disease-carrying and venomous arthropods, really?
		Stationed at Fort Lewis, Washington, he completed the Nuclear Biological and Chemical Warfare course as the enlisted honor graduate and became the NBC non-commissioned officer NCO for his unit, which was the 105th Medical Detachment.
		62nd Medical Group supported operations of the 1990 Team Spirit Training Maneuvers in Korea before he left active duty to be a single dad for his daughter after his split with his wife.
		Returned to active duty for Operation Desert Shield.
		Eventually was assigned to the Army Environmental Health Agency to support their engineering division as an engineering technician and industrial hygiene technician.
		And it just goes on, and I've got pages and pages and pages of what this man has done.
		But I think perhaps his most significant work has been rods.
		That's what you're going to hear about tonight.
		Another life forum that coexists with us on this planet, one that you cannot see.
		Well, tonight you're going to see it.
		It's on my website now.
		So you'd better get started up there right now.
		www.artbell.com.
		Click on guest information.
		Then, let's see, let's be sure I tell you correctly.
		Click on program first, and then click on tonight's guest info, and you will see Jose Escamilia's name.
		It says related info right below that.
		Click on photos and videos of rods, and then you'll be in the right place.
		Jose, welcome to the program.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Art, it's good to be back, man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's great to have you back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jose, where are you right now?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I'm in Studio City, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Studio City, California.
		All right.
		Where in your career, and you sent me a total of, actually it printed as three pages, Jose, everything I was going to, or thinking of reading about you.
		There's a lot here.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I must apologize, God.
		I forgot to put, you know, the video production stuff and all the stuff that I've done as a producer, that's my stuff.
		The second part of the Army and the marriage and all that, that's my partner, Jim Peters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		My partner in crime, man.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		He's the second Rod man that's here with me tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's actually there with you tonight?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, he's going to be on the show with me if you don't mind, man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't mind.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		We're a team, man.
		We're the Rod team.
		Jim's the guy that's done all the studies, man, environmental studies and things like that.
		So he's really helped me out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, James A. Peters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When did James get involved?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		He got involved with me in 1995 when I moved to Denver.
		And he was the assistant state director at that time for Colorado Mufon.
		And when you heard that I had moved to town, he came in and his quest was to try to find out if I was full of crap or if I had something that was legitimate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, Jose, When you first came out with the Rods thing, you didn't have the kind of evidence to lay on the table that you have now.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you had a little something, but you had nowhere near what you have right now.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so I'm sure there have been a number of people like James who have come to you, and as a result of the show tonight, will come to you and will want to begin a very serious investigation of the work.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		That's what really helped me was he came in and helped me evaluate things in a different perspective than what I was doing.
		You know, when you get too close to the work, you overlook certain things, especially logistics, you know?
		And he came in with that kind of persona, and we both got together, and man, we've been together now for like six years since then, you know, and it's been a great journey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you had not mentioned to me James was going to be with us tonight, but that's quite all right.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		All right.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm happy to have his input.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you discover Rods, Jose?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Well, right after the Northridge earthquake, I went back to Roswell, New Mexico.
		I grew up in New Mexico and grew up in Roswell, and I went back home to see my mom after the Northridge earthquake occurred here.
		And on March 5th, 1994, I had a UFO encounter.
		I videotaped 16 minutes of video that were shot about nine miles south of Roswell near the air base, the former Walker Air Force Base.
		And after that, I went back on the 19th of March and was kind of just doing a little pseudo-documentary of what I documented on the 5th of March.
		And on March 19th, I saw something that flew right over me in the viewfinder.
		I saw it.
		And you can hear me say that's an insect, that's a bird, that's an insect.
		Well, when I looked at the stuff in slow motion, you know, as an editor, I looked for things, especially in those days I was looking for UFOs.
		I saw this thing that looked like a snake came from across the road and flew right over me.
		And it was what I thought was a misspelled insect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now you saw this in the viewfinder.
		That's kind of interesting.
		And you were using what kind of camera?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		At that time, it was an RCA CCD camera, VHS, and it shot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had one of those.
		Okay, I had one of those.
		Yeah, I know what you were using.
		All right.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and it shot at a high shutter setting, which is unique in filming these things.
		At that time, it shot at one 2,000 shutter setting, which allowed us to see whether we were filming insects, birds, or rods.
		And, man, it just freaked me out.
		And it became a phenomenon that really struck me as being different.
		I mean, as an editor, I've seen all sorts of insects on film and video.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you saw it in the Viewfinder.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, if you'd seen it in the finished video and had not noticed it in the Viewfinder, you probably would have dismissed it, huh?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yes, as a matter of fact, at first I said, well, it's just insects.
		Until I slowed the action down and I saw an insect pass by, then I saw a bird pass by, and then I saw one of these things pass by.
		And I go, wait a minute, that's not an insect.
		It's something else.
		And from there on, I started investigating.
		I did camera tests to make sure I wasn't fooling myself before I released anything to the public.
		And sure enough, it's gotten us to where we are today.
		We've come up with some incredible footage that exists all over the world.
		These things are all over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think that you have incontrovertible proof that they are there.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Most evidently.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we're going to get to that here shortly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What, Jose, is your best guess about what a rod is?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I think it's a life form of creature, per se, that's existed among us for perhaps over thousands of years that we just never noticed them before.
		They've managed to evolve into what they are today.
		You know, for whatever reason they're here, where they came from, what they're doing here, we have no idea.
		But for whatever reason, they've evolved into a type of creature that we just don't even notice them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think they have evolved, or do you think that they have always been as they are?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I think there's been a little case of evolution here.
		As we'll discuss later on, we've come up with what may be a theoretical evidence of what rods might have evolved from.
		We have found that rods enter the water, enter the ocean, they emerge out of the ocean.
		We've got footage to that extent.
		And we definitely think we're onto something here that's been among us and is as evasive as they can be.
		They've managed to just be under our noses.
		We just never thought about them before.
		One of the things that, you know, earlier you had some people that were calling that, you know, we're talking about prana energy and things like this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, healing energy.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		That's a higher state of consciousness, you know.
		And I can't say these things are spiritual because we don't have evidence of that.
		What these things display are that they are definitely a living creature of some kind, a living life form, I would like to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's, believe me, more than enough of a burden to prove, Jose, without trying to jump further, and that's what I told the young lady.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		I mean, we could have taken it.
		As a matter of fact, early on in one of your first shows, I thought they were interdimensional things coming in.
		And who's not to say they are not?
		It's just that in order for us to prove that, we have to come up with that kind of evidence.
		And we've grown to where we try to present the materials in a more of a logical sense and scientific manner where when we tell you this is a rod, that's a bird, that's an insect, we can definitely prove that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I noticed some of the videos that you sent along have audio with them.
		So somebody's doing some serious production work over there.
		That must be you.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		And do bubbly.
		Yeah, we take time and make sure that people get to see the effect and see what these things really look like, and we give a little bit of a description.
		And I really thank you for putting those videos up there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've got a lot of bandwidth, and I think we can probably get serve everybody who comes up.
		I hope so anyway.
		I'm looking at the still photographs right now, the first four.
		And they're showing you with a group of people in the upper left-hand corner.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that was a shot that was taken by the Learning Channel.
		The Learning Channel did a nine-minute segment on the rods back in 1999.
		And they were filming a total different segment than what they were doing on us.
		They were at the Oregon Vortex.
		And what that is on the upper left-hand corner, it's some kids that are rolling a ball down This plank because this place is a vortex where it defies gravity, that kind of thing.
		And they accidentally captured a rod whizzed by the camera, and they didn't notice it.
		The editor picked it up when they were editing the segment for that particular show.
		He says, Guess what, guys?
		We got a rod at the Oregon Vortex.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you telling me that this single photograph of a rod next to it is that the Learning Channel got that?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, that was a good idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that was produced over at the Oregon Vortex.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		They caught it, and the editor picked it up, and the producers go, Jose, we got a rod.
unidentified		Ah.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Total separate circumstances.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm curious.
		They must have, you know, they're objective people, Learning Channel people, and they capture this themselves.
		What did they say when they looked at this?
		How would you describe this creature?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I would say that's a soft-bodied creature of some kind that just has a way of swimming through the air.
		As you said earlier, it has this undulatory wave action that's, you know, with its spin action, it allows it.
		It's so light-bodied that it swims through the air, you know, rather than flying.
		And they were blown away, man.
		They just said, dude.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure they were.
		So you believe it swims through the atmosphere?
		An interesting term, but that is the way it moves.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		That's the kind of movement that we've seen the behavior.
		You know, the way they fly or swim.
		I call them skyfish for that reason aside from rods, but they seem to have this movement total different from insects where they appear to just glide or swim.
		I mean, it's an amazing phenomenon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this particular one, Jose, how fast might something like this be swimming in our atmosphere?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		We're looking at rods flying or swimming at anywhere from 65 maybe to about 200 or 300 miles an hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fast.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's very fast.
		We've got some tank footage, man, taken by a military photographer out of Sweden.
		And this tank is firing these shells.
		It's a rapid fire tank.
		And before the shell casings hit the ground, two rods fly right past the tank.
		And they're pretty good-sized rods, maybe about three or four feet long.
		And before the shells hit the ground, and this is a matter of seconds, I'm talking in three or four seconds, these shell casings arc and then they finally hit the ground.
		This rod just zips through, you know, as if it was maybe chasing the shell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Through, as in under the shell casing, between the shell casing and the ground?
unidentified		Yes.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Incredible shot.
		And that was shot with, that's military footage, man.
		You know, I had nothing to do with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have that one up there tonight?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't.
		I thought I had sent all of my clips, but obviously I didn't.
		I should have sent that one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, well, I certainly believe it in view of what else is up there.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But are there as many different how many different varieties of rods have you seen?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		So far we've encountered three.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Three different kind of styles.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		The ones that you're seeing on that, you know, the four pictures there, those are the typical rods that have the undulatory wave membranes along both sides of the torso.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold it right there.
		He's right.
		Take a look at this.
		You'll see it on both sides of the torso, and you'll see how it moves.
		Not why it moves, but definitely how it moves.
		These are creatures living among us.
		Right now, go to my website, and you will believe.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell.
		You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 22, 2001.
		Come walk me, run it down the dead way.
		Jenny was sweet.
		She always smiled for the people she needs.
		On trouble and stride.
		She had another way of looking right.
		You're just blue.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 22nd, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if we're just now finding out and can prove that another life form coexists with us on the planet, a life form we cannot quite see, or we see only sometimes, if we're going to prove that to you tonight, and we are, then what else might there be that we don't know about?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The possibilities are endless.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
unidentified		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 22, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music Now, you may have seen rods.
		You may even see rods.
		I don't know.
		I think that I've seen rods, and I'll tell you how.
		Aside from the incontrovertible video proof that we have on my website right now, have you ever seen in the corner of your eye, in a quick movement, do you detect a movement in the, you know, out of the corner of your eye, just a real flash of a movement out of the corner of your eye?
		Jose, could those be rods?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		So that's the way you see them.
		That's the way they've always appeared to me, too.
		When I see with the naked eye, it's like a flash or something that just zipped in front of me, man, and you look and there's nothing there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see it mostly in my peripheral vision and kind of when I'm moving, and all of a sudden I sense motion, and I look over there and there's nothing.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and once you get used to the thought that, and I say this carefully, once you get used to the thought that these things exist, you'll see them.
		I mean, you know, the people that were talking about, the prana and higher consciousness, you know, once you open up that there's something there, then you definitely see things, you know?
		And you don't need marijuana, you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I know.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you know, one of the things about that is that Mexicali happens to be a hotbed for rod activity.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we've got one of the shots that you have on your website is a little boy where a rod flies right around him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's take these one at a time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First of all, leaving this one, the Learning Channel got this.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm sure that they probably had no idea what to make of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did they think it might be an insect?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		No, because they had done a segment on the rods.
		They'd seen the evidence.
		And they did a nine-minute segment on us.
		And it's still playing.
		Now it's playing on Discovery Channel.
		But Learning Channel played the same segment of the rods for a whole year.
		And now it's going on two years.
		Now it's airing on Learning Channel and Discovery Channel.
		So there's definitely major interest in their show there, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you've done something tonight that we have not done much in the past, and that is you put up how many video clips?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		God, how many?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Is it about 12?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and at least 12 video clips.
		Now, the one big criticism that most people make is that, well, maybe rods are either birds or insects.
		And it's a natural assumption to jump to when you're first saying, what the hell is this?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		That's the first assumption I made.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then we've got one here, a real video called Insect-Bird Rod Comparisons, right?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		There's two birds that fly by, and then you see a rod pass by in two frames.
		There's a big distinction between birds and rods.
		And you can definitely see the difference when you look at that clip.
		So that discounts the bird theory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It shows you a bird, it shows you an insect, it shows you a bird, and it shows you a rod.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
unidentified		And the rod pretty good-sized rod.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm sitting here looking at this rod.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you assume, and I guess we shouldn't assume, should we, is there any way to tell how far from the camera that rod is?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		That thing, I think, see, you're looking at a rooftop there, and if you can count the frames, and see, I slowed it down to about five frames per second so you can see the wing flaps of the birds, and it's in slow motion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		The time it takes for the birds to cross the screen, this rod does it in two frames of video, which is less than two-thirtieths of a second.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		So that thing I would say was probably about four or five feet long.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Four or five feet long.
unidentified		Yeah.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I used to think that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was a pretty damn big rod.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I thought they were small, but that's pretty big.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		That's a pretty good size object to pass by, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it sure is.
		Yeah.
		Do rods have mass?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they do.
		And that's displayed.
		There's a shot here, man, that you've got.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, we're going to go through these one at a time.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		The next shot, as a matter of fact, right after the bird rod comparison.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, fine.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		The base jumper, the rod has the tail in sunlight.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now this is a cave in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me take a look at that.
		Hold on.
		Okay, I'm seeing somebody falling in free space.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Right, it's a base jumper that's jumping off the rim of a pit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see the rod.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Northern Mexico, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see the rod going by.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		And what's unique about this is in the last frame, you're going to see the tail, the small tail section of the rod is still in sunlight while most of the torso is being shadowed by the rim of the cave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're exactly right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the rod is moving through the sunlight into the shadow.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		And part of the tail section is still in the sunlight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Goodness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my goodness.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Bruce McAbee looked at that footage, and he felt that the rod was probably about, what did he say, about four, five feet long?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's about four or five feet long.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, this is something new.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The last time you and I talked, you had no idea rods were that big.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		No, we were still getting footage, and we hadn't gotten the computer equipment to do much more analysis, and now we've got that.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		And man, I'm telling you, we're learning more things about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jose, with the rod going through the sunlight and into the shadow, that begins to rule out an awful lot of photographic anomaly-type arguments, doesn't it?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Sure, sure.
		I mean, if an insect passes by the camera lens real fast, real close, I mean, it's not going to create a shadow like that.
		You're just going to see a dark blur.
		This and clearly, you can see.
		Both things are in focus, man.
		That rod is coming from sunlight, going into the shadows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, oh, it definitely is.
		I'm watching this one again, and there goes the guy falling.
		he's actually he's doing what is jumping in a He's crazy as a loon.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But there goes that rod right by him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that gives you, if you can make an assumption.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Now, figure, this guy's jumping in.
		He's falling in at about 90 miles an hour.
		So his body barely moves and the rod scales that distance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you can make what assumption then about the rod's speed based on that?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		So it's at a pretty fast clip.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, brother.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How does that go to suggesting, though, that a rod has actual mass?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Well, the mass of the rod, I mean, you have to figure, you know, if the sunlight can, if the shadow can overshadow most of the torso, you know, it's definitely got mass.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we've got footage of them going in the ocean through the bubble trail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If it's that big, If it's four feet long, let's say.
		This is so convincing.
		Then how can we not see it?
		In other words, how can we not see it with normal vision?
		Now, I can see them in the manner occasionally that I talked about, but that's sort of an out of the corner of your eye.
		Did I really see that kind of thing?
		I know that's what I'm seeing, but if it's that big, how are our eyes not able to see it, but a camera can?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Well, our brain cancels out a lot of stuff.
		We're not looking for this.
		I've seen big ones, man.
		And they're big.
		I've seen them with a naked eye.
		It's just that I'm used to seeing them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By now, you're probably dreaming about rods.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		All the time, man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do it.
		I can do it.
		I can do it.
unidentified		You can't work with this stuff day after day after day.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		You get to where you see them all the time, and you're going, man, people are just walking and driving around the streets and not looking up, man.
		There's something that just flew over the guy's head.
		And it was pretty good size from my point of view.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do rods interact with human beings?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do they appear to interact and want to do that?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they do.
		We've got shots of these bass jumpers jumping into the cave.
		We have one shot in a video that I produced, Smoking Gun Evidence, that the guy's jumping into this cave and a rod goes right to him and then avoids contact.
		And then we have one, you have a clip on your video page here.
		At the bottom, it says rod circling man.
		Actually, that's a little boy.
		This rod goes around the kid's torso, you know, around his waist and comes back towards the camera.
		And you can see the thickness of this rod as it goes around his waist.
		I mean, it's as wide around as the little guy's pistol that he's wearing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then obviously that indicates that a rod can see us and is very well aware of our presence, even though we're not of its.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		And they see us probably in slow motion, man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that is true.
		In fact, perhaps to a rod, unless we happen to be jumping off a cliff, and then a rod might notice, particularly notice us, because we're moving relatively fast.
		Otherwise, to a rod, we're almost an inanimate object.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we're like a big monolith that it's circling around or something, you know.
		We have a shot there called Free Falling with a Rod.
		It's an MPEG video towards the bottom of the page.
		That one is one of the most incredible shots of a rod ever.
		It was taken by Fox TV and Channel 13.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		busing and i'm gonna jump all around i'm sorry that that that Which one?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		It's called Man, let me see.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Free Falling with a Rod.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's an MPEG video, so I'm going to have to bring that up.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Sorry about that, but to talk about interacting, this guy is falling into the cave.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Right now, he's doing about 120 miles an hour, which is called terminal velocity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		The guy's falling straight down.
		As you see in the background, the camera's following him, and the background is a complete blur.
		Then you have this rod that comes in and not only falls straight down with them, but also travels in a direct path, makes a U-turn and goes back where it came from, all at the same time falling straight down at about 120 miles an hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, hold on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just finally got loaded here, so I think I can watch it now.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		The most incredible shot.
		That's the most incredible shot we have yet of a rod.
		And that was taken by Fox TV.
		It was used by Channel 13 News recently.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'm buffering.
		I think we're starting to get challenged for bandwidth.
		I could be wrong, but it's taking a while to buffer here.
		really want to see this that shot if i'm telling you that Here it is.
		Okay, so there's the guy falling.
		I saw a rod go by him.
		Underneath.
		Let me see this one more time here.
		Underneath him, huh?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
		And you see where the emblem is for the Channel 13 news?
		Right around there, it makes a U-turn and goes back where it came from.
		But you have to see the picture.
		The guy and the camera is tilting straight down.
		Everything's a blur in the background.
		Both the rod and the jumper are in focus.
		But the thing is, the guy's going straight down.
		The rod is falling straight down with him, yet traveling in a path, makes a U-turn and goes back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		There is no creature in the world that could do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To you, what kind of interaction does that mean the rod is doing?
		Is it being playful?
		Is it just being curious that something else is moving very fast?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I think it's probably showing off for the cameras and saying, look what I can do, John.
		I'm serious.
		That's the most incredible shot ever of a red colour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute, Jose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you think it's showing off for the camera, that implies a pretty intelligent thing.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Well, in a playful way.
		You know, dolphins come up and bump swimmers and they swim circles around people.
		Maybe that's its way of, you know, it's free flight, man.
		It's just reacting to this guy.
		And when the bait jumpers go to this particular pit, which is in northern Mexico, there's tons of rods that fly around them, man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, maybe it's just a reason for this is because of the speed of the jumpers.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really think we're on to something there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, normally to a rod, we're probably like a pillar of salt.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're not moving at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But when we're going at terminal velocity, we're getting into rod country.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and the high velocity area.
		So they're looking at, well, let's see what this thing is.
		I've never seen that before.
		You know?
		So it's an amazing shot, and I'm really happy with that shot because that eliminates any kind of creature that can do that.
		You won't see a bird or swallow or anything that can do that kind of maneuver that I know of anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, back to the question of intelligence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are you able to attribute to them?
unidentified		Do they, for example, do they ever go through people?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do they go through...
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do they go into the ground?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, they appear to go into the ground, but I think they level out.
		I used to think they went into the ground and came out of the ground many years ago, but after looking at the footage now with a different logic behind it, yeah, they appear to enter the ground, solid ground, but they don't.
		I don't think they do.
		However, the ocean shots, and talk about mass, when they jump in the ocean and they fall in, they leave a bubble trail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		They leave a bubble trail when they enter the ocean.
		We have footage from National Geographic that we're still working on Licensing that shows a rod entering from the sky.
		They're shooting, it's an underwater camera shooting upward at this little turtle.
		You can see the top of the ocean, and you see a rod, a white rod, coming in in the sky.
		You can see it.
		When it hits the water, it breaks water and leaves the bubble trail, and instead of slowing down, it accelerates just as fast as it was in the sky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		So that denotes that they do have some kind of mass to be able to break water.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, yeah, but in a way, it argues against it.
		If they have some sort of mass, then according to the laws of physics, they should move or could move in the water, but wouldn't they move slower in the water than in the air?
		The answer is no, huh?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		No, when I talked to Dr. Jack Casher, he's a professor of physics in Nebraska, he said, Jose, this puts it in a total different realm.
		There's no such thing that can do that, you know?
		So we don't know what we're dealing with.
		We just know that it's a type of creature, man, or a life form that has the ability to reverse both mediums, both liquid mediums, the water and the atmosphere.
		And nothing slows them down, man.
		They just zip in, zip out, man.
		So it's an incredible life form.
		You know, where they come from, we don't know.
		Who knows?
		Who knows what these things really are?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever seen a rod do anything heroic?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, or in some interaction with a human being, is there any indication that they care about us at all other than we're just sort of something that moves very, very slowly and is not to be thought of as anything special?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		No, I haven't, but I did see a shot.
		And, you know, the network in Northern Oregon has not released the footage to me, but I saw this, man.
		It's a football game where this rod flies in along the field.
		The guy throws a football.
		And there's a referee running alongside the guy that's going to catch the ball.
unidentified		Yep, they do.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		The rod flies through and hits the referee, and he reacts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he reacts.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		And then you can see what appears to be like a water substance hit the ground.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've seen a lot of really bad calls, Jose.
		No, this.
		That might account for it.
		A referee getting hit by a rod.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Broadcast camera.
		And the thing appears to hit the referee, and he reacts, man.
		And it looks like something just exploded and water hit the ground, but it was definitely a rod.
		And it might have been the first rod-human collision.
		And the camera man that shot it, the network does not want to give me the footage yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, listen, here we are, yet again.
		We're talking about rapid movement relative to usual human activity.
		A pass is being made.
		The ref is running to see if it's going to be a completion or not.
		And the rod hits the referee.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Aha.
		Again, motion.
		So the rods are probably interested when we move fast.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Or sound.
		You know, the tank that's firing those rapid shells.
		We have other footage that the Swedes sent me, military footage.
		Every time they fire these shells, you see rods just go towards where the shell went.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know what you need?
		You need John Madden is what you need, with his telestrator.
		Usually John is up there drawing circles around something, and you can see John drawing a circle around rods.
		You see, the guy's going down from the pass, and there he goes down from the pass.
		And by the point, look at the referees run along there.
		Look at this rod, and you draw a circle around the rod.
		His rod has hit the referee.
		Obviously, that's why they had a bad call, because the rod of the referee.
		and what seems to happen to the broad but it's a referee does it does it No, but does the rod recoil a little bit when it collides with the referee?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		No, it looks like it was disintegrated.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		It looks like it hits.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It committed suicide.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Hari Kari, man.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I wish I had the footage, man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These guys don't want to investigate me outside.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're telling me it disappears then virtually.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can actually see what looks like water spurting down on the grass on the football field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're talking rod guts here?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Rod liquid.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Rod doom, man.
unidentified		Rod.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I saw the footage, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up.
unidentified		You know me, man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, Jose, unless people go up to my website and follow along with us here, they're going to be laughing us off the face of the planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They've got to see this with their own eyes to believe it.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you, you know, Jim Peters and I and a couple other guys in Denver, we're going to this nightclub one night, and it was snowing, man.
		It was pretty cold outside, and something hit the windshield, and I could have sworn it was a rod, man.
		But it exploded, it hit the windshield, and it left a film, a liquid film.
		But then it evaporated, whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it was cold.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		It should have left a streak.
		You know, something hits your windshield.
		It usually leaves a streak.
		When we pulled over, we had to blow our breath on the windshield before we could see there was any trace of anything that ever hit it.
		And, you know, it was...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, also, who knows?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For example, I drive a big 37-foot RV.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it gets pretty rotted up after a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, obviously, a lot of what's on the front of the RV after a long trip, that's insects, right?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Well, you have no idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But on the other hand, who knows how much rod juice is part of that?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		I've gotten emails from people who say, man, there's this one object, this white object, that keeps crossing the road in front of us every time we're driving out of our farm, and it just boom zips by.
		We don't know what it is, but we keep seeing it.
		So I sent the email and say, hey, man, videotape next time.
		Man, next time you're driving down, videotape.
		It could be a rod.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold on, Jose.
		We'll be back after the top of the hour.
		For the rest of you, go to my site, www.artbell.com, and go to program.
		Tonight's guest info, the name Jose Escamilia, photos and videos of rods.
		It will blow your mind.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 22, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM
		Be it silent, sand, smell, or touch, the something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of the touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak root roots deep in the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing, to lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing, all these things in our memories more.
		And the youth is a baby.
		I, I guess he's old, take his face on this trip Just come on, yeah!
		Fly, take a free ride, take a place of our seat.
		It's hard to breathe I was going to take the years Worked so hard just doing my fears I'm doing my life for my life.
		But by now, I know.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an oncore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 22nd, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we have visual evidence on my website in the form of still photographs, some by the Learning Channel, others, most in fact by Jose Escamelia, of another life form that's all around us, coexisting on the planet, using the same air, the same water that we use.
		It's a life form, and you can see it.
		And we're about to go to a video of a rod circling a man that's just astounding.
		It's down toward the bottom of the list of videos, and it's absolutely astounding.
		So one more time, the instructions, if you can get to a computer, go to my website, www.artbell, A-R-T-B-E-L-L.com.
		Click on tonight's guest info, the name Jose Escamilia, and then, of course, the stills and the video of this life form that we're talking about and seeing tonight.
		We're going to go down to the one that says Rod Circling Man.
		That's going to come next.
unidentified		Stay right there.
unidentified		Now let's go back to the night of February 22, 2001 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music All right, this may be one of the most convincing pieces, although we've seen several already.
		On the list of videos available that you can look at right now, you'll find down toward the bottom an MPEG video, it says Rod Circling Man.
		I suggest you take a look at that one right now.
		It's just a mind blower, Jose.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		That's amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It looks like a Mexican man, I guess.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		It's a little 10-year-old mariachi kid, man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that right?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And this rod, man, it must be doing about 30, 40 miles an hour, man, because when you look at the video in real time, I've slowed it down to about three, four frames per second.
		When you see it in regular motion, man, it just goes boom.
		I mean, you can't even see it do the turn that it does around this kid's waist.
		And what's amazing about it is you can actually see it turn.
		I don't know if some of your audience may be able to do frame by frame, but man, it's just an amazing shot of a rod.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
		And then at the end, you zoom in and actually show the rod.
		You freeze frame the rod and zoom in on it after it's done the circle around the guy.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And then you can take that frame, that same rod image, and you can look at another rod that's up on the website that says rod flies over cameraman's shoulder.
		It's on one of the real video clips.
		It's the same type of rod.
		So it's really an amazing shot, man.
		I'm really happy about that shot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, that would seem to mean that the rod understands the man is there and has decided for some reason to fly around him like that.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and you know, talk about it seeing us in slow motion.
		The kid makes a motion with his hand.
		If you can notice, the kid raises his hand to do an expression as he's singing.
		The rod narrowly misses striking his hand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		So it, you know, in advance, it was going fast enough to where it made that, you know, that supposition that, hey, he's going to move his hand.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I'm in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so rods almost, are they able to almost act like a bat?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is to say, to avoid something moving for a human fairly rapidly?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Possibly so, man.
		I mean, they seem to be able to avoid collision.
		This one's definitely determined to do the little circle around a kid's waist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But when they do collide, do they inevitably seem to die?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Well, that one that's going back to the referee, man, it looked like it hit his shoulder and it turned to water, man.
		You know, robbed you or something.
		But, you know, I need to get that video back from the network and look at it closely.
		But we've had a couple of reports and two isolated cases where they said they caught rods.
		Do you know about that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who said they caught rods?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man.
		There's two different locations where this happened.
		One was in Philadelphia.
		There was a guy that said this rod came into his house and it flew around and he was trying to hit it with a fly slaughter or something.
		And he sprayed aerosol.
unidentified		Check this out.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Check this out.
		This will crack you up.
		He sprayed aerosol on this rod.
		And he said it was definitely a rod.
		It was something that was just zipping by real fast.
		He sprayed aerosol.
		Didn't see it anymore.
		Then he says he went into his lab.
		I don't know what kind of lab He had, but he had sulfur all over the place.
		You know, maybe he had a methane lab for all I know.
		But he says he goes back in there and then he hears this fluttering sound and he sees this thing fall from the ceiling and falls on this bed of sulfur.
		And when he went and touched it, and he said it was definitely a rod shape.
		It was a rod object that had the membrane along both sides of the torso.
		When he touched it, it disintegrated into a fine dust.
		And that was one account, okay?
		Yeah, the second account was...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		a rod couldn't get out of his house is that the So in other words, it was a twitching rod.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was a dying rod.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Evidently he killed it.
		I get emails, man.
		Two different accounts.
		The second one was at the cave in Mexico where he got these bass jumpers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		And one of the guys said that one bumped into him and it fell and he picked it up, put it in a jar.
		And then by the time they traveled an hour down the road to get to the hotel, by the time they pulled the jars back out, it had disintegrated into fine dust.
		It looked like the kind of film you get off of a moth's wings.
		He said that's what it looked like after that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've seen that.
		Oh, my God, though.
		Wouldn't you love to have some of that to examine?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and they supposedly have video and still photos of it in the jars.
unidentified		In the jars?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I haven't gotten my hands on it, but, you know, it's one of those things.
		You know, what can you do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you remember the last show we did?
		I have watched, you know, I'm a cat guy.
		I've got cats.
		Oh, we've had cats.
		Ramona and I have had cats ever since we've been married.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And cats, of course, are constantly chasing things that are unseen.
		Now, a lot of people think that cats make these things up in their mind, that they concoct these invisible playmates to go pounce on and to run after suddenly and pounce onto the rug.
		Sometimes they'll jump up at a window or something.
		There's no bird out there.
		They're just after something that their cat brain thinks is there.
		Well, what if it is there?
		And what if cats do see?
		You know, a cat's a system that they run 102 degrees.
		They run much faster than we do.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		And their visual acuity is a lot more sensitive than ours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, that's correct.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		They definitely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think they might see them?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sounded like James said something.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, what did you say?
		James, I thought sensitive to movement.
		Sensitive to the movement, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sensitive to the movement that a cat is.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		So I wouldn't doubt it, man.
		You see a cat playfully jumping at something and it's just flapping its paws at something and you go, oh, how cute.
		You know, and it's probably chasing a rod, man, you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if a cat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think cats eat rods?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Who knows, man?
		You know, one of our biologist friends from Denver said, you know, the enzymes that these things are burning to be able to travel at that kind of those kind of high speeds and make right-angle turns and maneuvers and things, you know, they're burning a lot of enzymes, you know?
		The metabolic rate is really high.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very high, yes.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		There's no telling what kind of protein these things have, man.
		I mean, it's amazing.
		It's definitely something that we need to get more people involved in.
		And, you know, little by little, we're making strides.
		You know, we were mentioning earlier, you know, the spiritual aspect.
		You know, I went through the path, man.
		I went to the Star Knowledge Conferences, met with the elders and the Native Americans, and they call them arrows, and they have their own thing about what they could be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They call them what?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		They call them arrows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Native Americans call them arrows?
unidentified		Yeah.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Standing out, who's one of the religious leaders of the Native Americans, the Sioux Indian tribes, he had told me that the elders said that these things are called arrows as far as they're concerned, and they are definitely of a spiritual nature, according to their insights.
		They say that the white rods are like our thoughts, no, like our prayers.
		The dark rods are like our thoughts, and they don't know what the red and orange ones are, you know.
		But that's the spiritual aspect.
		And, you know, I went through all aspects trying to find out what the hell we're dealing with.
		Just recently, finally, after all these years, we've been doing this for seven years now, cryptozoologists have finally acknowledged that this could be a type of creature or life form that exists among us.
		So cryptozoologists are finally catching on.
		And eventually, hopefully, we'll get more scientific individuals involved.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We certainly need to.
		Now, God, I'm looking at another video.
		This is completely awesome.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Which one's that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which one is it?
unidentified		Ta-da, ta-da, ML3-R-M.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now I'm not sure.
unidentified		It was another jumper.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It might be.
		Let's see.
		Clear image of cave rod 2.
		I think it's close-up image of a cave rod.
		That's it.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Close-up image of a cave rod.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's one of the best ones, too, man.
		That one shows the camera angle that was shot at shows the base jumper going into the hole.
		Now the guy is ready to open his chute.
		He's out of focus because the camera, you know, he's out of range of the focal length of the camera.
		And the rod zips through in between him and the camera.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I was going to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It looks like the rod, in this case, is pretty doggone close to the camera.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		It's in focus, man.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		And I'm telling you, you can see detail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can see a great deal of detail.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		And I zoomed in with the magic of my computer editing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, let me one more time look at this rod.
		Yeah, the rod is in good detail.
		And you can see there's some motion of what I don't know.
		I guess would you call them are they air fins?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		It's a membrane.
		It's a membrane most, you know, that you would find along the sides of the torso of a mollusk or a cuttlefish.
		And it's an undulatory waveform type of flapping thing that they do.
		But it's a membrane that's along both sides of the torso.
		And look at the front end of the rod.
		You can see it curves up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can also, I'll tell you what else you can see, Jose.
		You can see different motion from different portions of the rod, as though the membranes are moving in a waving form or whatever.
		But you can see movement in the front and then the middle and then the back.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Even maybe a corkscrew type Movement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe, yes.
		Maybe.
		But that is certainly what the camera is catching.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		And it's moving.
		I mean, the only kind of creature that can do those kind of maneuvers in any kind of a liquid is a fish, man, you know, or especially a cuttlefish.
		I mean, they can maneuver underwater.
		You know, you've seen dolphins do corkscrew-type swimming, you know, this kind of thing.
		That's what this thing is doing, you know.
		And we've seen this characteristic.
		When you see the real, you know, close shot, you can see at the front end, it appears to have a little lip which points upward.
		We've seen that in other rod shots taken by other people from different parts of the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Jose, we've been making movies and television now for a long time, a relatively long time.
		So one thing you could do, obviously, would be to go back and research old stuff, old movies, old television.
		And when you do, do you find rods?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So for as long as we've been doing video and television, there have been rods?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I've seen, yeah, you know, recent films that have come out have rods in them.
		We've got one flying right over Mel Gibson, for example.
		And this was shot back in, I guess, what was it, 95, 96, when he was in Scotland doing Braveheart.
		There's a rod that flies right over him.
		So, you know.
		And there's other movies, too, that other people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But still, that's fairly recent, though, contemporary.
		I mean, could you go back to the 30s or the 40s and look at some motion pictures or whatever and find rods then?
		I'm trying to determine, are they relatively new or have they always been here?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		No, they've been here.
		They've definitely been here.
		I haven't seen any footage from the 40s or 50s, you know, aside from Trevor James Constable's infrared photographs of rods, you know.
		But I've had other people that said, hey, Jose, there's this movie with John Wayne where they open up the bomb thing that drops the bombs and we saw a rod fly right through before they dropped the bombs.
		And this was an old John Wayne movie.
		So I haven't seen the footage myself, but I get reports.
		So there's people out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then whatever these things are.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Hey, here's a good one.
		This is going to blow you away.
		Carl Sagan's Cosmos.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I've been getting emails, man.
		There's rods in his very first Cosmos episode, man.
		That was in the 70s, wasn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And there's a shot, and it's on DVD, it's on video cassette, where a rod flies right over the mouth of a well.
		And it's a distinct rod, man.
		I'm serious.
		It's just as good a shot as you see here with the close-up.
		It's that kind of rod shot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the close-up image of a cave rod is incredible, folks.
		You've got to see that one.
		It's undeniable, man.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		It'd be there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is absolutely undeniable.
		I mean, I think you have conclusively proven your case that they're here.
		How did you hook up with James Peters?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Well, James Peters has been the biggest asset that I've had, man, because he has brought out actually the way they fly.
		He's the one that formulated, look, they do an undulatory thing.
		It's not a series of little winglets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but how did you meet him?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		He came in to investigate me back in 95 when he was with Colorado Mufon, the assistant state director, and he sat with me literally and watched hundreds of hours of footage.
		And, man, he had his Eureka moment, and that's how I met him.
		And you know what?
		He's brought out so much stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you put James on the phone with you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have two phones there?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I can put him on, yes.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Hold on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, have him pick up the phone.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I'll have him pick up the main phone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		James?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Art.
unidentified		Welcome back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, thank you, James.
		I read a little bit.
		I thought I had one bio here, but I had one bio and well, really two bios and one thing here, so I mixed it all up.
		But I read a little bit about you.
		You were in Colorado MUFON, huh?
unidentified		Yeah, until I moved out here to California last year.
		I was the assistant state director for quite a few years.
		You know, Michael Curta, and he became my friend, and through him and my association with MUFON, through him, I joined, became an investigator, and then later on eventually became the assistant state director.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So how did you hear about Rods?
unidentified		Well, it was kind of funny.
		It was Jose came up from New Mexico before he had moved to Colorado and actually presented a lecture for us for Colorado MUFON.
		And I wasn't able to attend that night because my daughter had a school function.
		And Galen Sharp, one of our section directors, bought the tape that Jose had at the time, which was on the Midway UFO sightings.
		And at the very end of the tape, he had a few clips of rods because it was kind of new and he kind of stuck it on the end.
		And so Galen said, hey, tell me what you think of this.
		And so he puts the tape in the VCR.
		He passed forwards all the UFO stuff to the very end.
		And he goes, what do you think of this is?
		And of course, you know, my reaction is what a lot of people did at first.
		You think insect or bug or something.
		But there was still something a little different about it.
		And it was, well, when Jose moved up, he attended one of our state meetings.
		And I found out that he not only moved to Colorado, but he moved to the same city that I lived in, in Lakewood, and was only about 10 minutes away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So now it's irresistible.
unidentified		Yeah, I mean, with an opportunity like that, and it made it easy to be able to spend a lot of time and devote to it.
		So started out sitting down with Jose a couple nights a week on average, and usually for a couple hours at a time.
		And he was showing me a lot of the original footage that a lot of people, you know, there's just so much footage that it's hard to call it all out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in the beginning, the footage was fascinating, it was interesting, but it was not conclusive.
unidentified		Well, there was so many unusual aspects about it.
		And my problem was that I really didn't have a background in film or video.
		And I was looking at it from what is the data actually telling me?
		How is the data collected?
		What's going on with the film?
		The camera settings, things like that.
		And, of course, Jose had a much bigger background in that.
		And he was able to explain a lot of these things to me initially.
		And once I got a little bit more of a feel for it, though, and different shots taken by different people with different cameras and different lighting situations, different focal lengths, things like that, it just became that you could see there was an underlying theme after you've seen a couple of hundred hours of footage that you can really start to get a kind of a gut feeling for, well, that's a rod, and that definitely isn't.
		And they have certain characteristics kind of segregate them out of misfilmed insects or birds.
		You can take a blurry shot of a bug and be rod-like.
		There's lots of rod-like phenomena out there.
		And one of my focuses has been trying to keep it really straight onto exactly what it is we're investigating and not getting sidetracked by these other things that have kind of popped up along the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you proven conclusively to yourself?
unidentified		Myself, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That a rod is not an insect, eh?
unidentified		Yeah.
		It came in two stages, really.
		One was there was a few shots that we were going through where we had a camera with a high, where everything was right.
		The camera was a high-speed setting.
		The lighting was good.
		And we had some of those classic things where a bug came by and you can count the legs on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
unidentified		And a bird comes through and you can actually see the parting of the wingtip feathers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
unidentified		And then a rod comes through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so there is absolutely such a thing as rods, not to be confused with insects or birds, correct?
unidentified		And then about three or four months, and then there's a visual acutie thing that we talk about, about being able to see them with the naked eye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we'll get to that in a moment.
		Have you also determined in your own mind that a rod is a life form?
		Yes, definitely.
		That's an absolute yes?
unidentified		Myself, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 22, 2001.
		This beggar I keep, a climber I go away.
		I'll give you all that I want.
		I've got you standing in line.
		I'll let go, baby, survive.
		Then we shake it any way you want it, as long as you love me.
		But you think I should be happy with your money and your name.
		And hide myself in sorrow while you play your cheating game.
		Silver threads and golden needles can amend this heart of mine.
		And I dare not drown my sorrow in the warm water wide.
		But you think I should be happy with your money and your name.
		And hide myself in sorrow while you play your cheating game.
		Silver threads and golden needles can amend this heart of mine.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired February 22nd, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I play this for certain people who should be very careful of the games they play.
		There's something on the website down below the moving images of the rods and the still photographs of the rods that you've got to see.
		1,000-year-old rock drawings of rod shapes from Argentina.
		After you've seen the rods and you look at these photographs, you're going to go, oh my God, look at that.
		They were drawing photographs of rods way back then.
		There can be no mistaking it.
		It's on the same page.
		Just go down a little lower.
unidentified		It'll blow your mind.
unidentified		Now let's go back to the night of February 22, 2001 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jose Escamilia and his discovery of rods, in my opinion, should receive some sort of very serious scientific prize.
		And before it's over, he will receive that prize.
		Also with us, James A. Peters.
		General, first of all, and I'm going to jump around a little bit because I just can't help it.
		I've got to get all this early while we're still early into the show, so I'm sure everybody gets it.
		But these photographs from Argentina, these rock petroglyphs from Argentina, 1,000 years old.
		You know them to be about 1,000 years old?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's the information we got.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm looking at the second one down, and on the right, there is a photograph, or there's a pictograph of a rod.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that's a rod.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can it be anything else?
unidentified		Well, that's just one of the things.
		If you only had a two-dimensional way of trying to draw this for a friend, if say you were sitting down and trying to explain rods to somebody, that's what I'd draw.
		Yeah, and you were on a chalkboard or a cocktail napkin or something like that, what would you put?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I'd put.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, once you've seen a close-up of a rod, that's a rod.
unidentified		And the other significance is it's not that the rods are there by themselves, but the other glyphs that are around them.
unidentified		Some of the other information we know about the site is that this area was where the shamans would go for visions on a vision question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who discovered this?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		That was said to me by one of the archaeologists who I met in Mexico City when I was with Jaime Mausan, and he stayed in touch with me, and he said, Jose, you'll never guess what I found.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		And he sent me these photos, man, and it just totally blew me away.
unidentified		And it's an area in Argentina.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I can't pronounce the name, man.
		It's one of these towns, Brillo, Argentina.
		But it's at an area there where it's definitely a unique archaeological area where they don't let people just traverse and do graffiti on the rocks.
		I mean, it's against the law there.
		So it was definitely a pristine environment.
		And I'm telling you, man, when I saw this stuff, I go, man, this is the most amazing thing, over a thousand years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
		There's no question about it.
		It's a rod.
		And that's where they went to have their spiritual experience.
unidentified		Right.
		And, you know, earlier I was kind of chuckling when he had the caller in who said he was high when he saw these rods, or what he thought were rods.
		Well, for all the chuckling that even I did for that call, it's basically a cultural thing, because in our culture, if you tell somebody that you were intoxicated or on drugs, your credibility as a witness goes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		I know.
		But I don't quite look at it that way, despite my chuckling.
		I think that.
unidentified		No, it is funny.
		But in this case, too, though, I touched just before the break there about the visual acuity aspect of it.
		I mean, you can train yourself, basically.
		Some people naturally are more adept to it than others.
		But I went through experience where I basically trained myself.
		I didn't realize it was going on when it happened, but I was training myself to pick these up because when I was first sitting down with Jose, he would play a tape back at regular speed, and he'd go, zip there, did you see it?
		And I go, what?
		And he'd have to rewind it, go back frame by frame before I get to the other side.
		Oh, sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It takes a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It takes a while.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And then it got to the point where I was noticing rods that he didn't see.
		For example, the rods entering the ocean was something I picked up that he never saw.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
		Listen, I understand the process.
		I was a 911 operator.
		And in that job, you had to be able to take phone calls from the public.
		You had to control about, oh, I don't know, as many as 15 or 20 police cars at any given time, know where each one is, what it's doing.
		You had to dispatch them, do everything.
		It was a lot of multitasking.
		And before they would ever let you sit down and do it for real, because, you know, you had lives in your hand.
		You had to spend weeks and weeks sitting next to a dispatcher with headphones on, and you had to learn to hear the calls while you were doing something else and learn to segment it all in your brain.
		It was a very serious job, and I'm sure that's kind of like learning to see rods.
unidentified		It is.
unidentified		And it wasn't until after that that I had my first eyewitness sighting of my own personal sighting of a rod, and that's the one that just totally clinched it that, you know, I'm going, yeah, okay, I know this phenomenon is real and unique and separate all into its own.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But obviously, James, you've come to Jose to add some scientific expertise to what he's done.
		And I understand how he got to where he got to with rods and why he got there.
		But yours must be a rather frustrating job because you compiled the scientific evidence and then you, no doubt, tried to go to legitimate scientists and present them to with it.
		So what kind of reception do you generally get?
unidentified		It's amazing.
		They'll sit there and nod their head yes and they'll say, okay, that's unusual, that's unique, and it falls flat.
		I think what it is, it's just more of a not so much on scientists themselves, but just the scientific community and how they're funded and where they get their grants and who pays their bills and writes their paychecks for them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're afraid of it?
unidentified		And, yeah, they're too far out of the reach.
unidentified		You know, one thing that...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, these are scientists.
unidentified		What we've gone on now, though, here's a good analogy, is that when we first started out, the very first of this, when I got involved, we were hearing a lot about the spiritual nature of this.
		Energy forms, was it physical?
		Did it have mass?
		Those kind of things have been covered so far.
		Then the UFO community really picked it up.
		Rods is UFOs.
		Well, technically, it is an unidentified flying object, but they were putting it to alien creatures and cigar-shaped spacecraft and things like that.
		And now it is rightfully in the place where I think in the cryptozoology area of investigation and that you get more cryptozoologists now who are picking up and investigating RODS.
		And I think that's the proper place for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what do they say?
unidentified		Well, they're recognizing it now as a life form, as an animal, and you're getting more people who are at it.
		But just like people with Bigfoot sightings and other things like that, when you approach the scientists, I find it very similar.
		They'll sit there and they'll go, okay, well, you got something there, but they just don't want to get involved with it.
		And we've got some people.
		Now, that's not to say that everybody's like that.
		I mean, obviously, we have Dr. Casher who's been working with us.
		Bruce McAbee's helped us out with especially the shot where the rod goes into the shadow.
		Ken Swartz there in Denver is a scientist who's got a strong biology background who really keyed us on some really unique aspects possibly on the evolution of rods and where they came from.
		So it's not to say that we haven't gotten some good hits and great feedback from real professional scientists, but as far as it being a subject material that's acceptable, it's not anywhere close.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't see how that can be.
		I'm sitting here watching the video again of the man falling and the rod going by and then the rod, a close-up of the rod, going from the sunlight into a shadow.
		That's absolutely, it's just incontrovertible.
unidentified		Yeah, I agree with you.
		And I even showed it to the entomologists that I was working with.
		These are guys who have master's degrees and PhDs in studying insects, basically, or arthropods, which is more the correct term.
		But they would look at it and scratch their head at it, but they're so involved in what they're doing.
		Unless they just had a personal interest in it, something they would want to do on the side, they would be able to do it.
		But they would never be able to officially sanction the results or their comments on it.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Also, there's an entomologist out of England that made a perfect model of what he felt would be the prehistoric ancestor of today's insects.
		Now, I don't want to say that rods are insects, but there's, you know, what I'm talking about, we may have hit upon what might be the origin of these things.
		The biologist in Denver brought out Animal Acharis, which is a creature from 500 million years ago.
		This entomologist made a model, and it's a little thing that he throws, and it actually flies.
		He says, this is what today's insect's ancestor would look like.
		And guess what it looked like?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A rod?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		It was a rod, man.
unidentified		And it's aerodynamic.
		See, to me, the one thing is that there's a lot of supposition here about, well, could this be an ancestor of rods?
		Number one, it's called prototerago.
		And it's a hypothetical ancestral creature to insects.
		They haven't any fossil evidence or anything of this particular thing.
		But in his mind, he's going, in the evolutionary path of things, following the fossil record, something like this could very easily have been the first evolutionary precursor to what eventually evolved into what we commonly call insects today.
		And he built a cardboard model of it, and it flies.
		It's aerodynamically viable.
		It's a glider.
		It doesn't have any propulsion on it, but it glides well.
		And you look at it, and if you know anything about rods, it just clicks right in your mind right away.
		So even if it's not the ancestral, you know, any kind of physical proof that rods exist, one thing it does show is that the aerodynamics of rods is viable.
		And that's something that a lot of people don't understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a good point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The aerodynamics, in other words, when you duplicate the shape as best you can, it works.
unidentified		It glides, yeah.
		You know, anybody who's a pilot, you know, basically what you need to do is you need to overcome gravity and drag to be able to fly.
		You need thrust and you need lift.
		And there's lots of different wing designs out there in ways that you can do this.
		You know, right now in the ocean, we see one of the best, I think, models for what we think rods have in the cuttlefish or the squids with their fins alongside their body.
		More so than stingrays and stuff because of the tubular shape of the body and the thin, translucent nature of the fins that they have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		James, how would you account for a rod?
		I can understand everything you've said aerodynamically.
		But then how would you account for a rod moving at similar speeds as though the new mass of the water, when it dives into the water, isn't even there?
unidentified		Well, you have to understand that they very often do aerodynamic studies in water.
unidentified		And the hydrodynamics is basically the same thing as the aerodynamics, just the medium is less dense when you're dealing with water and less dense with air than it is with water.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so much less dense that a rod should slow way down in the water.
unidentified		Well, they do seem to slow down.
		Like I said, with the bubble trail, they obviously have enough drag, but they were still very fleeting in the water.
		I'm not saying that they were, and what we have from the National Geographic footage, I don't think it's traveling 100 miles an hour, but it's still very fast.
		I mean, it just zips right on by.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Question for either one or both of you.
		How many rods are in our average environment?
		In other words, as I sit here in my studio right now, or you sit where you all are sitting, how likely is it that there is a rod near us, around us, above us, below us, somewhere, moving near us?
		How dense a population of rods is typically?
unidentified		They're not real dense, but you've got to really think of them.
		Sky fishing, for example, is one reason why that term is even used by us is because it is a lot like fishing.
		You know, you might have a lake full of fish, but if you're not in the right spot, you're not going to get nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying that to get a rod on video, you've got to essentially go fishing for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sky fishing for you.
unidentified		There's a lot of luck involved.
		There really is.
		Now, that's one reason why this cave in Mexico becomes kind of a focus force is because it seems like every time we go there, we get a hit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's rods.
unidentified		Yeah.
		That's one reason.
		The cave obviously is a very unique and special environment.
		And we're really curious about what it is specifically that might be so attractive to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's going to be my next question?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any thoughts on what it might be that attracts them particularly to a cave environment?
unidentified		One thing, it's a protected environment.
		It's a very humid environment.
		If they are using the water, fresh water or salt water as part of their life cycle, which I believe they do, a humid environment is going to be something that they're going to want.
		It's protected.
		There might be a food source there for them.
		They might be actually, we got a rod shot of a swallow chasing a rod off.
		And the rod is actually longer than a swallow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that one in here?
unidentified		I don't think so on that one.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I think I might have.
unidentified		It's on the Roswell Rods website, though, if somebody wants to pursue it later.
		It was kind of hard for us in the notice to get as listening where all those everything up here as we did.
		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got a lot of stuff up here.
unidentified		We've got a lot of information overload going on right now for most people, especially if they haven't been exposed to this before.
		But we have a swallow that looks like it's defending its nest.
		It's a cave swallow.
		It's got a mud nest built in the side of the cave, and it flies out and actually attacks the rod.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It attacks the rod.
unidentified		And the rod is able to outmaneuver the swallow.
unidentified		And swallows live by catching insects on the wing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any question at all that the swallow is after the rod?
unidentified		There's no doubt about it at all.
		It's very clear.
		The proximity is right there.
		The rod is looks like he's just cruising along, doesn't really care about what's going on, and the swallow comes out directly at the rod.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So birds, too, have very fast metabolisms, right?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In visual acuity.
		So it certainly would not have visual acuity.
		So it would make sense that a bird would see a rod, just as a cat would see a rod.
unidentified		Yes, yes.
		So we have interacting with the environment.
		So, I mean, for it to interact with a human, you made an excellent point earlier about, you know, why is it something peculiar about these guys, these base jumpers, jumping in this cave?
		Because they're moving fast.
		They're not used to something that big moving that fast around.
		I think they're going to have a certain amount of curiosity and check it out.
		Whether it be, now we want to say it's curiosity, well, maybe it's a defensive maneuver.
		You know, who knows what their motivation is for what they do, but they do display an interaction with their environment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, we have bats, and bats avoid things.
		They've got radar, and they, I suppose, if you were to consider what a bat does and you didn't know about its radar ability, its sonar, you would attribute some sort of intelligence to it by the way it avoids things.
		Are we doing that with rods?
		In other words, the way they would circle a man or the way they would go under a shell casing or any of the other amazing things we've seen them do?
unidentified		Well, I think they do have an affinity to low frequencies.
		There are some sounds that rods make that we've caught on video when they've sounds, yeah.
		There's various little things that we understand that are unique about rods.
		When we hear it or see it, we know that that's kind of a tag for the phenomena.
		When a rod flies close by the camera, it makes a, to me, it sounds like if you took a wooden spoon and wrapped it on a counter, it's a kind of a wooden knock sound.
		It's very quick, very sharp.
		Insects, on the other hand, when they fly to the camera, you're going to get a buzz or a whine or a kind of a sound.
		You mean kind of like this?
		Very close.
		A little bit more of a thud type sound, actually.
		Just think of a big wooden spoon just knocking it once on the counter.
		And yeah, and it's that fast.
		But an insect flies by, you get the Doppler effect, and you get the.
		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you don't get that with a rod.
unidentified		No.
		No, you don't.
		And I dare to say anybody give me an insect that can make that kind of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have had, and here I go off on another track, but we've had tons of footage from NASA of spacewalks and building the space station and stuff from the various shuttle missions we've had up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has anybody ever seen a rod in space?
unidentified		Well, that's where we go back to this thing about defining the phenomena itself.
		There's been a lot of rod-like things that have been seen in space, shooting around and stuff like that.
		But for my purposes, you know, the thing has wings and it needs air to move.
		And obviously, if it's interacting with water, I'm sure it has a metabolism.
		I'm pretty sure it's probably going to need oxygen and things like that.
		So a rod being one of what we're calling a rod, being in space myself, I think would be a pretty slim chance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, then you believe that rods share our environment.
		Share the need for air or the mix of what we call air and or water.
		That rods do not penetrate solid things like the ground.
		They almost seem to, but when you look more closely, they actually don't.
unidentified		Right, right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've confirmed all this to your own satisfaction, James?
unidentified		And because we've, you know, in the early days, you know, you'd only get one shot or one clip where it showed that.
		But in the meantime, we've had other shots that have duplicated that, you know, so you have three or four examples of a similar thing going on.
		And the other thing is we're not just dealing with video here.
		We're also dealing with film, motion film, and still film.
		And we're also dealing with eyewitness accounts.
		So you have to look at the entire body of the data that you're working with.
		And one of the things with the eyewitness accounts is that Rod, I don't think they have the sonic ability of bats for avoidance because I know that one of the emails we got is from an over-the-road trucker.
		And he might be listening out there because I know you've heard about Rod's first time listening to Arbel.
		But he was talking about him seeing an object coming down the road at him and it hitting the windshield and it was way too big to be an insect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would imagine a lot of truckers might have stories.
unidentified		That's actually one thing he went on to say.
unidentified		And they probably left a big, big wad of clear glue that evaporated rather quickly, which shared the experience that Jose and I had that night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder how many truckers would report that.
		I mean, half of them probably think, you know, I've been driving too damn long now.
		I'm seeing things.
		And since you kind of see them out of the corner of your eye anyway.
unidentified		Right.
		And one of the comments he made is that he says, you know, when they wash their trucks down after a run, they're washing all kinds of stuff off of there.
		And they surprise themselves about what the hell could this stuff be?
		So I don't think rods have any magical or mystical ability not to screw up every once in a while.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Then there's this one shot of taken of a rod 3,000 feet up in the air from a helicopter during the worst tornado that Oklahoma City ever had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We don't have that one on here, do we?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		No, I haven't been able to get the license to that footage, but Gary England of Channel 9 News in Oklahoma videotaped a rod flying into the wind, 300 mile-an-hour wind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh my, we'll be into the wind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on, both of you, hold on.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 22, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from February 22, 2001.
		My heart is on fire.
		My soul's like a wheel that's turning.
		My love...
		Higher and higher, baby.
		It's over everything.
		It's over everything.
		It's a better thing.
		It's a given thing.
		What a terrible thing to lose.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 22nd, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember, just for fun, do you remember when we had Ed Dames remote view rods?
		And Ed thought it was, we set it up on one show and Ed thought, oh yeah, sure, okay, I'll do it.
		Because we had photographs, and Ed Dames remote viewed these and came back and said, oh my God, they are living things sharing the same space with us.
		He did say that early on, too.
		Now, I want you all to follow along with us.
		One more time, I'm going to instruct you on how to see everything that we've been talking about.
		Go to my website at www.artbell.com.
		That's A-R-T-B-E-L-L.com.
		When you get there, just go to Program, put your cursor over that, tonight's guest info, and then you'll see Jose Escamilia's name there.
		And below that, you'll see related info, photographs, and videos of rods.
		Now, I'm going to go down to a pretty interesting shot that's entitled New Mexico Rod Shot with UFO.
		And I'm going to take a look at that one with my two guests in a moment.
		And we are going to get the phone lines open, and we're going to let you ask questions because I assume by now, many of you have had a chance to go up and see all of this.
		And if you Have, you know, they're not insects.
		You know, they're not birds.
		You know that we're dealing with a life form that's all around us all the time.
		That's big news.
		That's science award stuff.
		We'll get right back to it.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
unidentified		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 22, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music Jose Escamilia probably should be called the father of rods.
		I guess that'll be fair.
		Are you, as far as you know, Jose, the first one to discover rods?
unidentified		Jose, you're on.
unidentified		Pick up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I've got both of you on here now.
		Jose, are you the first one to discover rods, as far as you know?
		Yes.
		So then you could be the father of rods, right?
		And, James, I guess you are the chief and first investigator, serious investigator of rods?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		You know, there have been other people, I guess.
		You know, Trevor James Constable had photographed objects, but he was more into the amoeba-looking things.
		He'd captured a couple of these rod objects, but he never elaborated into it.
		Not taking anything away from Trevor.
		I mean, he was back in the 58, man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I've got a shot here.
		New Mexico rod shot with UFO.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, again, it's a moving video, and when I play it, I see what looks like a white, unidentified flying object, but then going directly above this thing, from right to left, is this, what appears to be a long rod.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that what it is?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is, and it's a type of rod that we call a spear-shaped rod.
		It's a spear-type rod, which we can't really see the undulatory wave fins.
		It's just a, looks like a spear or an arrow type thing.
		That was shot by Jeff Ferris, who is our third cohort that has been filming rods.
		And this was shot over Santa Fe, New Mexico at one 10,000 shutter setting on his video camera, which is the best clarity.
		And that was an event that happened over Santa Fe Plaza.
		It was amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's no way to judge the size.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That looks like a big rod.
unidentified		Yeah, that's one thing about this.
		Regretfully, it's hard to get a field of reference with it.
		This would be a good point to bring up what we call the sky fishing protocol, is that when somebody wants to go out there and sky fish is to purposely put objects in your field of view that you wouldn't do for aesthetic reasons, so that when you come back and if you do catch a rod, you have a chance to use whether it be a telephone pole, a power line, a tree, any kind of object, inside of a building, whatever.
		So when you do finally get the rod, is that you can get an idea for, you know, narrow it down what the distance from the camera might actually be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and here's another biggie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rod shots in Roswell, New Mexico in 1994.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Right, that was my first rod shot shot over near the downtown area of Roswell, New Mexico.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		That building that you see there is the bank building, which is situated at Main Street in 4th, which is the original location for the Roswell Data Record back in 1947.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then at the end, you do a freeze frame in black and white that's extremely convincing.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, definitely.
		It's definitely something other than an insect.
		And these are the first ones that I thought were insects.
		I mean, I said, oh, that's just an insect.
		But when you see these two rods fly by, when you see them in real time, they're going extremely fast.
		And there's no evidence of any kind of wing action or anything like that.
		It's just those are amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They are amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just absolutely, I mean, this is stunning evidence that I just can't imagine how a scientist could dismiss this in any way.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, Art, I went to the Museum of Natural History here in L.A. and showed the footage and the evidence that we have to some of the oceanographers and entomologists and biologists there, and they are totally, totally into it.
		It's just that they said, Jose, our science is we need specimens or a fossil or something that we can really grit our teeth in.
		They're not trying to say we're not interested.
		They're very interested.
		But what the main objective is in their site, bring us a carcass, man, and then we'll tell you exactly what rod is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, how about catching a rod?
		Now, you gave us two examples, one of a twitching rod which had been sprayed.
		And then one, I guess, was in a jar.
		How might we go about catching a rod?
		That would be the next step.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I was at the cave two and a half weeks ago in Mexico, and I saw two of them with the naked eye, and they were going so slow I could have mistaken them for birds, but they weren't birds.
		They were actually rods.
		And I'll tell you, Art, if I would have had one of these nets, you know, like a swimming pool net that you clean your garbage out of a swimming pool, a skimmer, you know, 10 feet long, I could have swooped one up.
		They were that close, but they were, you know, you've got to know this cave, it's like a steep drop, 1,250 feet down.
		But they were right there, man, in front of me.
		And I saw them with a naked eye.
		They were going slow enough for once.
		They weren't going zipping by real fast.
		I saw the undulations.
		I saw the length of those.
		They were maybe about a foot long.
		I could have nabbed one or two of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has anybody ever seen a rod motionless?
unidentified		Yeah, actually, as there's eyewitness sizes of them, well, there's two ways they could be motionless.
		One would be hovering in the air, and the other would be if they had landed on something.
		And we do have eyewitness reports of both of those.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they do that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that atypical or atypical behavior for a rod?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		It's the first time we've heard.
unidentified		Yeah, it would have to be atypical.
		It seems to be an unusual circumstance.
		You said what's typical is that rods are always in motion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it's sharks.
unidentified		They can change speed and velocity and direction.
unidentified		You can see them accelerate, you can see them slow down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I think it's sharks, they say, always have to stay in motion or they die.
unidentified		Yeah, I think it has to do with their method of propulsion.
		I think for a rod to hover would be a fairly difficult Maneuver for it, and it would be an unusual circumstance for it.
		Another thing I think is that from some of the eyewitness reports that we've had is that the rods have more than one method of propulsion.
		I think they have the capability of gulping air into their body and kind of expelling it under pressure as kind of a jet motion.
		Like a jet wood or an octopus would in the water.
		It's kind of a quick shot, either for acceleration or maybe if they were sitting at rest.
		For example, if they were, we've got a guy in Trinidad, the island of Trinidad, who said that he has a rod that kind of looked like it wrapped itself around a branch of a tree, a twig of a tree, and resting, not exhibiting any legs or anything like that.
		And another guy who saw a rod, which appeared to be an ill rod, the way he describes it, it sounded like something that wasn't healthy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An under-the-weather rod?
unidentified		An under-the-weather rod.
unidentified		And by the way, earlier you were talking about rods breaking water when they enter the ocean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		When they leave the ocean and hit the air, are they breaking wind?
		But anyway, sorry.
		Poor attempt at humor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
unidentified		But no, actually, though, the reason why I say that is because in effect what he was describing was like breaking wind, gulping in and your body actually expanding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, taking it in and expelling it.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Taking it in on the front end, which is what end of a rod, and then expelling it under force and contraction on the other end, getting a jet propulsion out of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, is there any indication that there is a front and a rear to a rod?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any indication of in any of these photographs when you get really close up of anything that would appear to be what's on the website with the close-up of the rod?
unidentified		The one that looks like it has a corkscrew pattern to its.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which one should I be going to?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		It's the one that's the extreme close-up.
		That the cave jumper is jumping straight down.
		He's out of focus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that close-up image of cave rod?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's the close-up, yeah.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm watching that again.
unidentified		And it's traveling from left to right.
		And at the still at the end, when there's a freeze and you zoom into it, if you'll notice at the very right end, which appears to be the front because that's the direction of motion, there's a little bit of a hook.
		I see it.
		Yeah.
		Now that's something that we had kind of kept under our own belt for a long while, just to see if this might be an indicator of a true rod.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It almost looked like something opening.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And the best confirmation we actually have of seeing this in another rod shot is actually from a still 35 millimeter film shot.
		and it's much more clear in that shot.
		It's one of those helicopter shots.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		And it has the same type of little hook at the nose there.
unidentified		Yeah.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		And I mentioned before the break about this one tornado that occurred in Oklahoma.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And a rod flying into a winds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		300 mile-an-hour winds.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		300 mile-an-hour winds, and this is at 3,000 feet above the ground.
		The helicopter pilot saw it.
		They filmed it.
		Gary England, who is the meteorologist for the weather station there, Channel 9 News in Oklahoma City, he saw it with the naked eye, and he also saw it on video, and he called it an unidentified flying thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, isn't this then evidence, again, of a rod being particularly interested in a really fast-moving thing?
		A tornado's going really fast, right?
		It has some mass because it's picked up dust and whatever, God knows what else.
		Talking energy, vortexes, you know, and so to a rod, this would be a contemporary, almost.
		Moving that way.
unidentified		And I think that rods, if they've shown us anything as far as sounds and things like that, they seem to be attracted to low frequencies, maybe even frequencies that we can't hear in the normal human range.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean like the low frequency rumble of a tornado?
unidentified		Or a thumping sound?
unidentified		Think about the thumping, chopping sound of a helicopter rotor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true, yes.
unidentified		The tank firing, very low frequency, traveling long distance because in all the rod shots where they're approaching the tank, they seem to be coming from far away, coming specifically to the tank.
		So you've got a very strong, low frequency impulse that's going out.
		We've got an eyewitness account of somebody who was throwing a boomerang, and he's talking about he's got one of those four-bladed boomerangs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here we go again.
unidentified		And it's got this one particular field, and on occasion he'll go out and he'll throw the boomerang, and these things will kind of appear to rise out of the grass up to it as it reaches the end of its arc.
		And then when it slows down, start to come back, they seem to lose interest in it, and then they zip away again.
		So there's these kind of recurring themes that you have to add up as anecdotally along the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But they appear to be attracted to things that are moving fast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, their little systems are zipping along at 10 zillion miles an hour.
unidentified		Yeah, I can agree with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, to us, and I said this earlier, to them, I suppose we are, for the most part, motionless just pillars of stone or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But occasionally we move fast or fast for us, which brings us into their vision, their world.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		And you know, one of the paradigms, people that have higher acuity, karate people, you know, that boxers and things like that.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Right, right, right.
unidentified		Yes.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Visual acuity, man.
		I have a lot of karate people that say, hey, I've seen them.
		I've seen these things, man.
		Why?
		Because they study on the art of fast movement.
		So they condition themselves.
unidentified		And also using your peripheral vision.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, peripheral.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, I'm going to hope that some of the people that we're going to bring on the phones here to ask questions have seen some of these stills and the video tonight on the website.
		I'm going to just hope that so that we can get comments from people who have just sort of run into this tonight.
		And I want to get their impressions.
		So let's go to the phones.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with the rod guys.
unidentified		Hi, Rod Guys.
unidentified		How are you?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Great.
unidentified		Hey, I heard you mentioned these rods, and you said you had these ancient paintings in these caves in Argentina, I believe it was.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		The rock paintings.
unidentified		Rock carvings, the petroglyphs.
		The rod carvings.
		I was wondering if you had come across any written reports throughout history That had confirmed the existence of these rods because when you said that, these had been around for a while.
		It had sparked a memory of mine.
		And while reading a book called The Encyclopedia of Hell, I came across an interesting entry.
		Now, don't mistake the title.
		This is a book that compiled entries about evil in its various forms throughout history.
		And the authors have also written a companion book called The Encyclopedia of Heaven that lists various saints and other things religious.
		Now, this entry I came across regarded a saint, and I can't remember his specific name, but his story follows this outline.
		A century ago, this saint had been praying to God, and the focus of his prayer was that he was asking God to reveal the evil spirits that surround us each and every day.
		Now, God answered the saint's prayer and opened the saint's eyes in such a way that he was able to view the evil demons and spirits, and those spirits filled the air as though bees.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		The entry goes on to say the swarms of evil spirits continually surround us, waiting to jump into any of our orifices and cause us to sin whenever we allow ourselves to become hosts of impurity.
		And this was God's explanation for this.
		And once he started talking about these rods, you know, the story instantly came up to mind because I thought it was kind of freaky that you could just look in the thin air and see swarms of hidden spirits that you normally would not be able to perceive on a day-to-day basis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, that's as good a shot as any.
unidentified		Well, there's been a lot of people, like I said, that have described rod-like phenomena and attributed spiritual qualities to it.
		Now, you know, it would just be a supposition to say, were they seeing real rods, what we're talking about when we mention rods, a physical creature of some kind, and attributing it to being something special, miraculous, or supernatural because they're so unique and hard to see.
		But when Sir Arthur Conner Doyle, I know that on the website, roswellrods.com, he's got a story that's attributed to being fiction, but he describes these serpents in the air.
		And when you read his account of what this is supposedly what a pilot was observing while he was flying in the atmosphere, it is so good.
		It is so close to being a description of what a rod looks like.
		You have to wonder how much of that was his imagination and how much it might have been personal experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's one for you.
		Guys, most things in our environment, living things, have a reason for being in our environment.
		They're part of a chain somewhere.
unidentified		They're part of the ecosystem, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they're part of the ecosystem, part of the food chain, whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any idea where rods might fit in there?
unidentified		With me right now, maybe going back to the cave for one thing, is that there's what is our food?
		Things need certain things to survive.
		They need food, they need shelter, they need sex.
		There are three main big things.
		Well, you know, we've got a rod shot that was taken over a church, was that North Dakota?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		That was in South Dakota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dakota by standing up the native of the let Two rods, getting it on.
unidentified		No, more than two.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		More than two.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, rod orgy.
unidentified		Yeah, end-to-end, locked up end-to-end.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		End-to-end.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now I know more about rods than I wanted to know, maybe.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Almost like a single-celled creature duplicating itself.
unidentified		It begs the question, is it asexual and they're butting off of each other, or are they copulating in some way along that way?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are they moving in this rod orgy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are they all in?
unidentified		They're all flying in line like a train.
unidentified		Just like cars of a train hooked up to each other, just flying all in line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding.
unidentified		I'm serious.
		Yeah So you know Methods of reproduction Well, they come in various sizes, so maybe we have.
		You know, there's a lot of things out there that when they're born, whether they hatch or are given birth, they're just miniature copies of the adult.
		So when we see small rods, we may very well be looking at baby rods.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you ever see what appear to be baby rods flying in formation with, dare I say it, adult rods?
unidentified		Is there like some kind of parenting going on or something?
		Yeah.
		I haven't seen that that I can think of off the top of my head.
		We have seen rods of similar size interacting with each other.
		I heard Rose mention earlier, like watching dolphins playfully swim, you know, and interacting with each other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		But those have been basically of the same size and stature.
		But you could be exhibiting a playing activity as a youth or training some way.
		The mind just goes and goes where you could talk about it.
		But rods of various sizes are pretty common.
		We had thought earlier that rods might have been very big, but there's just physical limitations of that to kind of bring it down to a certain size.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, four feet is pretty big.
unidentified		Four feet is huge.
		I mean, that's, to me, you're reaching at the very limits of credibility there when you start talking about something that big, that fast, and moving it.
		But again, that might be one thing about the cave is that it's such a remote environment.
		Until just very recently, only the local natives, I mean, it wasn't discovered until the early 60s by scientists.
		And so it's left undisturbed, and maybe that's one place where the larger rods are allowed to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like you grow big fish in certain areas.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		And the other thing we all know is how much the water is apart from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on, gentlemen.
		We're at a breakpoint.
		We'll be right back.
		We're talking about rods.
		We're going to concentrate more heavily on the telephones because I know you all have questions.
		And again, I'm going to hope that a lot of you that called tonight have seen what we have on the website at www.artbell.com.
		Please take a look.
		We'd love to have your reaction to a new living thing.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 22, 2001.
		Take your face.
		And if you get hurt, if you get hurt, by the little things I say, I can put that smile back on your face.
		When it's alright and it's coming on, we gotta get right back to where we started from.
		Love is good, love can be strong, we gotta get right back to where we started from.
		Throw down by the wind Throw down in a spin I gave you love I thought that we Had made it to the top I gave you all I had to give Why did it have to stop?
		You've blown it all sky high By telling me a lie Without a reason why You've blown it all sky high
		You've blown it all sky high Our love had been to fly We couldn't have touched the sky You've blown it all sky high You've blown it all sky high You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an oncore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 22nd, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This damn cold, you know, here I sit doing abnormal things for me.
unidentified		I'm drinking tea instead of coffee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know me and coffee.
		So I'm drinking tea, taking echinacea.
		I'm doing all kinds of things, and I'm getting angry at this cold, and I'm wondering why science can discover things like rods and all sorts of diseases they claim to have cured, and yet we still get this god-forsaken common cold.
		Have we really come as far as we think we have?
unidentified		Skiss Skiss sad music
unidentified		Now let's go back to the night of February 22, 2001, on ArcVell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The End Well, my two guests are Jose Escamilia, the father of rods, and James A. Peters, the principal investigator of rods.
		But I'll call them the rod guys to save time.
		Number two, I think that people, the media, which I know listens to this program, and I mean the mainstream media, the networks, and you know what?
		Television should really, really be interested in this because there's so much visual.
		TV needs visual, and you guys have definitely got visual.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we've got the stuff that's tough enough.
unidentified		We've got proof.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
		So write to them at skyfish at pacbell.net.
		My goodness, they'll think you're wonderful for what you're able to present.
		You'll have a story that will get you ratings like you've never had before if you include this video.
		Skyfish at PacBell.net.
		And you guys will provide video, won't you?
		If a network Fox came to you and said, look, give us your best video, we're going to do something on this.
unidentified		We've done better than that.
unidentified		We've actually shot video for them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you what.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		As they say, if Fox calls me, I'll say, we're going to blow you away, baby.
unidentified		Just recently in a local LA station here for sweeps weeks in the last two quarters, used rods just for that purpose to help with their ratings.
		They got such a good response off of the end of last year that they came back and used the subject again for February.
		But they came out to where we were at, and I set up our camera and caught two rods for them while they were sitting there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But even if they don't want to go to that kind of work, you know, where they might or might not capture rod, there's enough existing evidence for them to put together a visual story that would knock their viewers right on their rear ends.
unidentified		Oh, there's a ton of it.
		I mean, if you want to talk just about the actual video we have of rods, and we're talking about what we consider rods, there's a lot of bad stuff out there.
		Anybody with a camcorder these days is out there with automatic settings and doesn't understand what the protocols are to use and stuff, and they get something blurry and long shapes coming through there, and they think they got a rod.
		And it really, we appreciate that.
		And some people are actually catching rods, but for the most part, to be quite honest, they're not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's continue with the calls, I promised.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line on the air with a rod, guys.
unidentified		Oh, hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Glad to talk to y'all.
		I had a question.
		I'd heard y'all say there might be some correlation between low frequency and rods showing up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you seen the rods on the site, sir?
unidentified		No.
		Oh, actually, on your website, yes.
		Never seen them in real life.
		Really interested now.
		I was wondering if y'all had ever considered maybe, I don't know how you would set up a low frequency type of machinery, but tried it at the cave.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we're planning on that.
		We definitely have an expedition.
		We're planning to go back to the cave.
		I've been there three times already with various news stations.
		And yeah, we want to go there with the proper equipment and do some high frequency, low frequency recordings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, why not, for example, put together a little machine, Jose, inside a box.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hear me now, inside some sort of thing that you can close and have a low frequency emitting and something moving very fast.
unidentified		Sure, like a centrifuge, so to speak.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		The biggest thing what we're talking about here is equipment.
		And what you need to understand is that we've been funding our own research out of our own pockets.
		And except for an investor that came in last year and bought us a camera that we're currently using for this, everything's been out of our own blood, sweat, and tears.
		And like I said, equipment equals money.
		And believe me, we've got a laundry list of equipment that we want.
		We want to try ways that we can analyze this.
		Different Nets.
		Ken Swartz, I mentioned before, back in Denver, has come up with different models of nets and stuff with us.
		And we've got the time, but right now it just comes down to funding the research at the same time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you had endless amounts of money, what would you do?
unidentified		Well, let's see.
		In other words, what's at the top of your list?
		Kid in the candy store.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, what's at the top of your list?
unidentified		The very first thing on my list, and I think Jose would agree with me on this, is a motion analysis camera, a camera that's capable of filming at very high frame rates and very high resolution at the same time.
		And also be able to do it more than eight seconds at a time or something like that.
		We've found a couple of cameras that would fit the bill and would have to be portable and something we can use in a field.
		We know they're out there, but we're talking about 50 grand and up just to show up.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I'm already off of the visuals if I'm ready to go catch one.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I know at this cave, if we had the right traps and the right system, we could definitely catch a rod.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How would you endeavor to catch a rod?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know you talked about a couple being slow.
unidentified		There are a lot of concerns here.
		You know, one is you're talking about a pristine environment, and when you leave, you want to leave as least evidence as possible that you were even there because it's a national landmark of sorts.
		You could do a whole shell in a cave by itself, believe me.
		And so you would have to do something that was environmentally friendly.
		You would have to aim at, hopefully, a capture method that would preserve the rod because right now it looks like they're very delicate.
		I want to tell you how extreme it goes, just brainstorming one time.
		I came out with what if we had an air cannon that shot out a big wad of corn syrup, you know, in a cloud and knock this thing out, and you'd be able to stick the rod out of the mess and then just let the Raquero syrup.
		I mean, we've gone that far with trying to think about ways we could catch rods.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You haven't actually shot any corn syrup out yet.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Not yet.
unidentified		I'm willing to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that would be...
unidentified		Big enough budget, I'd give it a shot though.
		But I'm just showing you, just to let people know, I mean, we've really looked at it.
		Right now, the best things that we can look at are similar methods to the use for trapping insects.
		There are various shapes and forms.
		You can put them on top of moving vehicles, which eliminates that from the cave if we're going to do that there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be like a rod.
unidentified		Using different kinds of attractants, maybe you could put a low-frequency device on the other end of it of a net of some kind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But all of this takes money.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		And time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And time.
		Yeah, I understand.
		And horsepower.
		And time is money, too.
unidentified		And we've all got our day jobs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold on a moment.
		Wild card line, you're on the air with a rod, guys.
unidentified		Well, I'll tell you, guys, next time you get out of a cave, I'll supply a couple hundred square feet of mosquito netting and all the block attack that you need.
		There you go.
		Jose, I met you a couple of years ago at the San Mateo Marriott when Richard Hogan was doing a gig there.
		And you introduced me to rods and gave me a tape, and I was quite intrigued.
		When was this?
		A couple years ago.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Over in San Francisco?
unidentified		Yeah.
		San Mateo, yeah.
		We had a couple drinks together.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that was great, man.
unidentified		It was a good time.
		Learned a lot that day.
		I'll tell you that much.
		But you really got me thinking about this stuff over the past two years, and I couldn't miss your show.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, thanks for tuning in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you seen the latest on the website, sir?
unidentified		Oh, all right.
unidentified		Top to bottom.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Top to bottom.
unidentified		Top to bottom, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, did I misrepresent it, or are we presenting incontrovertible evidence?
unidentified		Well, I mean, obviously to you and me and 75% of your listeners out there, it's incontrovertible.
		But mainstream science is always going to say, you know what, we've got to look the other way to keep our tenures.
		That's about all I can do.
		I think to a scientist, when you say you're going to bring one in a jar full of formaldehyde as being incontrovertible evidence, I mean, that ultimately is the description of it.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		And they're still going to question it.
unidentified		Well, yeah.
unidentified		And obviously if these little guys are made of water and little tiny bit of matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on, hold on.
		Everybody's trying to talk at once.
		We can't do that.
unidentified		But I think what we can definitely say with these is that we're talking about the preponderance of the evidence, and especially as time goes on and we look at more details of what makes this phenomenon unique.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, caller?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Mo, I have huge amounts of questions, but I don't want to take up too much time.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take your best shot.
unidentified		Just the top three.
		I'm looking at a mosquito hawk dead on my ceiling.
		How come these guys never kind of like fly into the house?
		I mean, even birds every once in a while fly through an open window, and they're intelligent, so you kind of think that there's an avoidance thing going on there.
		Also, they're flying around at huge speeds, making huge amounts of turns, and they're also, you guys are kind of figuring out that they have some wing structure, and they're living within the laws of physics, so they must be birders burning a huge amount of energy.
		What do they eat?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a lot of questions there.
		Why don't they ever fly into a house?
		I think the answer is they have.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		They have footage.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Put them in houses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It has happened.
unidentified		In fact, Jose and I had an experience recently in the last year where we think that we had an alarm going off at a studio we were working in at the time, and we both had a rod sighting at the same time, and we kind of wonder if maybe that was setting off the alarm.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And your other question, sir?
unidentified		Yeah, the other question was, what are these guys eating?
unidentified		I mean, if they're flying through the air all the time on every piece of footage, and they're burning a lot of energy, that energy's got to come from somewhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, it sure does.
		Gentlemen, you did point out in the one really close-up of a rod that it almost looked like some sort of something at the front of the rod opening, which would indicate it takes in or expels air and or also gets nutrition in some way.
		What's your best guess in that category?
		How do they eat?
unidentified		Well, I think right now is our best bet, I don't know if it's our best guess, but our best bet is that they might also be feeding on insects.
unidentified		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Possibly.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		We don't know.
unidentified		You know, this is twofold to it, because one thing is that the largest single biomass on this planet is insects.
		And people go, well, why don't you see rods or where's evidence of their carcasses and stuff like that?
		Well, consider that the single largest biomass is attributed to arthropods on this planet, and we hardly notice them as it is.
		But at the same time, being the single largest biomass, they could possibly be a food source for rods.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have we any video evidence yet of a rod consuming anything?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		No.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Not yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what they eat, man.
unidentified		Now, we've had reports of insects milling about in a cloud and rods flying through the cloud, you know, similar to maybe how a predatory fish would swim through a school of whether it ate bugs, we don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, a good, honest answer.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with the rod guys.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to have to get on a regular phone, sir.
unidentified		How are they, Art?
unidentified		You hear me now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, much better.
unidentified		All right, this is Jerry.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine, Jerry.
unidentified		Hi, Jerry.
unidentified		Jose and James.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		How you doing?
unidentified		How you doing, buddy?
		All right.
		Listen, I hadn't got a chance to see your website pictures yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you okay, too bad.
unidentified		But I believe I know what you're talking about here with these rods.
unidentified		I don't know if you're familiar with the name of Charles Hickson, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		Okay, supposedly he said he had an experience with UFO down here in Pascagoula.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I remember Charles Hickson.
unidentified		Okay.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I remember seeing him on a Geraldo thing.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Well, a few years back, him and I used to be real good fishing buddies.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Is he still living?
unidentified		No, he's not.
		Is that a rest of his soul?
		Anyway, we used to do a lot of fishing down here in the Bayou's.
		And he's the one that introduced me to these rods.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		And I just wanted to confirm, or I think I'm going to confirm what you said, that they eat insects.
		Because when we would see these, and I heard you say you had a four-foot rod on your website.
		We've never seen anything that large down here.
		The biggest ones we've seen was maybe six inches long at the most.
		And they all seem to come from the swamp area.
		And so we assumed they would feed on the larva.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you feed us?
		How did you see them, sir?
		Straight on.
		I mean, you saw them straight on when you were fishing?
unidentified		They would approach us.
		They wouldn't get too close.
		Of course, I had a cat.
		I don't know if it had anything to do with it.
		He liked to go fishing with us.
		But the rods, they would come in packs of five, maybe five to eight.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Were they in the water or off the water?
unidentified		No, they were above the water.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Above the water.
unidentified		And every time they would approach, did they ever slow down?
		They wasn't moving very fast.
		And I'm not sure if you're aware of South Mississippi.
		It's a high humidity area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Very swampy.
		And I just, I don't want to take a lot of your time.
		I just wanted to kind of confirm what you were saying.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I'd like for you to stay in contact with us.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		If you could email us or, you know.
unidentified		Right, that was Skyfish, you said?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Skyfish at Pac Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Skyfish at PacBell.net.
unidentified		PacBell.net.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		All right, I got you.
unidentified		And Art, I appreciate your show, babe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much for calling.
		Take care.
		Thank you.
		West of the Rockies.
		You're on the air with a rod, guys.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
		This is Cindy in Anchorage, and I first got to say I'm so glad you're back.
		My nightlife can begin again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Cindy.
unidentified		One of my questions was, was there ever any documentation or any idea that these rods can move anything physical?
unidentified		Can move anything physical?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		in other words if they smack into something have you ever seen a rod moving cause anything to move you know mass on mass climbing last well other than that uh...
unidentified		referees and if you want to say if they if they had a windshield of the car they're getting there They're not moving the car.
		Not to be facetious, but if the way they're moving through the air, they're moving the molecules of the air for propulsion.
		I'm not quite sure what you mean, though.
		Well, the reason I ask is you talked about some of their playful nature and the way that they would move around the man who was falling.
		Right.
		When you see these things moving out of the corner of your eye, and it's probably the one thing in common almost everybody has is they have seen something move.
		But I'm talking in particular about an item that might be, you know, it was there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, for example, guys, a feather that would be sticking up in the air, and a rod smashes into it going 100 miles an hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You would imagine the feather might, you know.
unidentified		Move.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Move a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think that's what she's saying.
unidentified		Well, the guys who claim to have caught a rod and put it in a bottle and it turned to dust with that story, they said that the rods were actually impacting their body.
unidentified		They could not only feel it, it hit them, but it was also they could see the shirt or whatever clothing they were wearing dent in with the impacts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does that answer your question, ma'am?
unidentified		Yeah, that does.
		I mean, it's more than just something floating through the air.
		I mean, that would say it would have mass if you can if it moves.
		And plus, entering the water, it definitely makes a splash and leaves a bubble.
		Or a ripple.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A ripple.
		Yeah, and they said they've got a video where you can actually see some bubbles.
		Is that right, guys?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, just like somebody shot a bullet into the water.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		That's a kind of bubble trail.
unidentified		You can see it break the surface and it leaves a bubble trail that streams behind it.
		Yeah, and also one other thing, 10 years ago, I don't see them as often as I used to, but I used to see quite a bit of movement out of the corner of my eye, you know, peripheral vision.
		And somebody had said to me, oh, well, they're here for your protection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		And I just, you know, it gives me goosebumps now to think of them that, you know, they would hang around my front door.
		And it was when I was living by myself with my kids.
		And she says, oh, well, they're here for your protection.
		You know, we can definitely see them with the naked eye.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Pardon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can definitely see them with the naked eye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you can train yourself to see them straight on instead of just sort of peripherally.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		And you shouldn't be afraid of these things because, you know, I wasn't.
unidentified		I never was afraid, ever.
		And everybody that was in the room, you know, when I began to mention it more and more and more, then other people started to see the movement also.
		And they said, well, they're here for your protection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're really almost out of time, guys.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I've got to say something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I've got to plug myself, man.
		I've got to pay my sponsors.
		I'm going to be at the Northwest UFO Paranormal Conference in Seattle at the Art Bell Chat Club Conference, dude.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		This is happening Memorial Day weekend.
		It's on Friday, May 25th.
		They can access the information on my website.
		I'm going to be there with Peter Davenport, who's what are you guests?
		And Pamela Stonebrook and Brian.
		All my buds, baby.
		Dr. Roger Lear, the whole shebang.
		We're going to be there.
		And I'm going to present rods, man.
		We're going to show the stuff that we just talked about and more.
		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No doubt some new stuff, too.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to show the ocean footage, all the good stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's May 25th.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		May 25th through the 28th at the Double Tree SATAC Seattle Airport, the Paranormal Conference.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		They can access the information on my website, www.roswellrods.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is James going to be there?
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		No, unfortunately.
		They haven't planned to have him there.
		We're going to be coming back from England at that time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		By the way, James is getting married, dude.
unidentified		Hey, James.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		I'm getting married this year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you really?
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
		And hello to Tracy, sweetheart.
		I know you're going to be listening to this on the internet.
		Love you, baby.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		He's in love, man.
		I'm going to tell you.
		And I'm the best man.
		I'm the best rod man there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The best rod man.
unidentified		Oh, my.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Hey, when it comes down to it, man, we're just regular people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who have made an incredible discovery.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		And it's real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to realize that.
unidentified		I want to thank you for giving us this venue.
unidentified		It's an incredible thing, and I appreciate the respect that you treat the subject.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's rare.
		It shouldn't be so rare.
		I mean, it's right in front of your eyes.
		Listen, gentlemen, thank you, and good night.
jose escamilla ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		All right, there you have it, folks.
		You think a little bit about that?
		Something else, sharing the same space with us.
		Something, in all probability, living.
		Everything points toward it.
		And by the way, if you have not seen it yet, the material will remain on my website.
		You can go peruse it during the day today.
		Tonight, when I come back, assuming this cold does not strangle me, we're going to do Ghost to Ghost.
		And I've got a little surprise for you at the beginning.

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