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Feb. 28, 2001 - Art Bell

02:46:14

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Ghost To Ghost Stories

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41:51

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peter davenport

03:33

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's close to close a.m., and I'm Mark Bell.
		Back from the flu.
		Sort of.
		And I say sort of because I've still got a temperature running around 100, but we've got a lot to do, so let's get down to it.
		A powerful earthquake, as you know by now, rocked the Northwest today, shattering windows, showering bricks into sidewalks, sending terrified crowds running into the streets of Seattle and Portland, Oregon.
		Despite the 6.8 magnitude damage and injuries were relatively minor, which experts attribute to the quake's death, about 75 people treated in hospitals in Seattle and Olympia.
		There was one fatality they're attributing to a heart attack.
		Still, the quake temporarily shut down the Seattle airport, knocked out power for hundreds of thousands of people, tracked the dome atop the state capitol in Olympia, and briefly trapped about 30 people atop the swaying space needle 605 feet above the city.
unidentified		That must have been quite a ride for those folks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's get straight to it.
		We've got a number of people lined up to talk to you.
		First is Jim Birkland.
		You know Jim very well indeed.
		He was the county geologist for Santa Clara County for 20 years, as far as I know back then, the only official county geologist.
		And I want to get a word or two from Jim about what happened today.
		Jim Birkland, hey, how are you doing?
unidentified		Howdy, Art.
		Well, this is pretty big news.
		And those that watch the website know that it was predicted by my site master, Will Fletcher.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In what manner was it predicted, Jim?
unidentified		It was the second highest tide period of the month.
		What I call a secondary window.
		I handle the primary windows, and he handles the secondary windows, which then constitute half of the time.
		But if you go back to the start of the year, we have had seven major quakes, and seven of seven have been in the window.
		And chance would say, you know, only half.
		And there have been 11 quakes of at least 6.6 counting todays, and 10 of the 11 have been in the window, far exceeding any chance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, while the news officially here, the Associated Press, sort of seems to suggest there wasn't a lot of damage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was watching CNN actually when the story broke, and I've watched the damage from the helicopters all day long, and the damage to me looks pretty damn bad.
unidentified		They're talking a billion, and I could believe it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A billion dollars.
unidentified		Yeah, and as you remember, they said there were only a few injured.
		Now it's up to 250 injured and one death.
		A lot more facts will come out as people see them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why was this so damaging?
unidentified		Well, because it was so big and so close to town, the only fortunate thing is that it was 30 miles deep instead of 12 miles deep like the World Series quake was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If it had been 12 miles deep instead of 30, what would have been the difference?
unidentified		Maybe 1,000 deaths.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		1,000 deaths.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And the magnitude measured at the epicenter then?
unidentified		Well, 6.8.
		We've heard everywhere.
		It started out as 6.2, 6.1.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was asking a dummy question, and that was, if it was closer to the surface, would the magnitude measured have been greater?
unidentified		No, but the intensity would be greater.
		That's where the popular confusion is.
		Intensity is what happens to people and things.
		And, for example, intensity 5, small objects knocked over.
		Intensity 7, chimneys cracked and some topple.
		And people feel it in motor cars.
		They used to have the old modified Macaulay scale.
		But the energy is measured by magnitude.
		And so every quake should have just one total energy.
		It's like how many sticks of dynamite were involved.
		Then for the intensity, it was how close were you to the explosion?
		What kind of wall was between you and the explosion?
		That sort of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then is the Richter scale, in a way, I'm just sitting here thinking about what you're saying, is the Richter scale really a totally reasonable way to predict how much damage there's going to be by the Richter reading?
unidentified		Well, they're related, but you could have a Richter 8 out in the middle of the Pacific, far away from any islands, and if it didn't have a tsunami, well, you wouldn't have any damage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, but I'm just referring to the depth now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The same given area, if the depth is different, the damage is going to be very different.
unidentified		Yeah.
		The deeper the quake, the better it is locally.
		But the more widely, the greater section of the Earth feels a quake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then being as close to Seattle as it was, if it had been at 12 miles, they'd have been that many miles closer to the epicenter.
		It would have been much worse.
		I'll be doggone.
		I just learned something.
unidentified		Now, you may remember about four years ago they had an eight-magnitude quake down in Bolivia.
		It was felt in Toronto.
		Felt in Texas.
		There never was a South American quake felt in North America before, but it was so deep, and it was like 600 miles deep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember that.
unidentified		But it didn't do any damage in Bolivia.
unidentified		Everybody just took a ride.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there sure was a lot of damage in this one.
		Boy, I'll bet you the people in Seattle really, really are kind of on edge tonight.
		And if you'll pause one second, I've got one of those people right here.
		Peter Davenport, well known to most of my listeners, is where else, of course, at the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle.
		Morning, Peter.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Good evening, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is evening, Steph.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		It was quite a ride this morning, and I've just learned about all I know about earthquakes from Jim's description of magnitude and intensity.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		All I can tell you is that I'm glad it wasn't, the magnitude and the intensity were no greater than they were this morning because we had quite a ride up here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what kind of ride?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Describe it.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Well, several things.
		There was an initial shock, and within a second or two, I looked at my watch.
		It occurred about 10.54.40, 54 minutes and 40 seconds after 1040.
unidentified		Great presence of mind.
		Pardon?
		Great presence of mind to be able to look at your watches.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was running from the windows when that occurred.
		I hit the power button on my protector, the power transformer up here for my computer and headed for the center of the building.
		One thing I noticed I had a tall stack of newspapers stacked against a southern wall, and they were quickly propelled to the north.
		But interestingly, I had a pair of snow skis perched against a northern wall, quite precariously, it turns out.
		They weren't disturbed at all.
		It quickly led me to conjecture that the shock may have come from the south of Seattle, and apparently that was the case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that a reasonable assumption, Joe?
unidentified		Very, very good.
		That's how the original seismograph by the Chinese a couple thousand years ago was evaluated.
		The little lion's heads, dragon heads, with a little ball, and then they would drop off in a little pot.
		And whichever pots would have the ball in them, they'd know what the direction was the opposite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you go, Peter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dead on?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		We had a cheap one.
		I've actually seen those devices in Peking.
		They're very interesting, and I'm not sure we've improved all that much in the last 2,000 years.
unidentified		Clearly not an earthquake prediction.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Interestingly, there was a stirring sensation to this, and that's reinforced by the fact that some of the drawers in my desks, which run east and west, were also slightly ajar.
		And I've spent all day trying to figure out how to come up with an equivalent or an analogy to what happened.
		But the closest I can get is being a grain of sand in the bottom of a gold panner's gold pan as he swirls it with water.
		The pan going one direction, the water going another, and the grain of sand still in a third direction.
		It was really a very, very interesting experience.
		I'm sure people who have been through these know perfectly well what I'm talking about, and of course scientists understand it.
		I'm sure.
unidentified		It's a feeling of helplessness.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I found there were both physical sensations and shortly thereafter, psychological or emotional reactions, like being propelled into a different part of space or time in a matter of a few seconds.
unidentified		We experience that over the next few days, wondering if you've just had another quake.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've sensed that already, Jim.
		At 11.34 this morning, just about 40 minutes after the original event, I was sitting on my couch watching the news, and I had the sensation of another shock.
		But apparently the seismology lab here at the University of Washington, not 15 or 20 minutes walk from where I'm sitting, recorded that there were no aftershocks.
		So I would chalk that up to a psychological reaction.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		That's very natural.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your house not cracked?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You got away with all this?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Not as far as I know.
		I actually was moving away from the periphery of my apartment, assuming that the part closest to the center of the building would be the most durable.
		But that gives our listeners some idea of just how intense this was.
		And you know, we really, really dodged a bullet up here this morning.
		The overseer to this planet chose to smile on Seattle this first day of Lent, I believe, because just eight hours before this quake occurred, we had 50,000 or so young people in downtown Seattle engaging in all sorts of debauchery, and that was the heart of the area of the city where most of the damage occurred.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what, Peter, my wife said, see, they did it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They didn't quit at midnight the way they were supposed to, and now look.
unidentified		Well, there have been a lot of reports of edgy and antagonistic people and road rage.
unidentified		On my website, a number of people reported these things from the Northwest in the last week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That comes under the category of the emotional part of this.
		Listen, I'm way short on time.
		Peter, I want to thank you, brother.
		Thank you.
		I know you were right in the middle of it, and take it easy the next few days.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		It was quite a ride.
		We got lucky this time.
		Thanks for the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, Peter.
		And I'll tell you what.
		If you'll hold on just a moment, Jim, we'll get right back to you.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Stay right there.
		Jim Birkland, who was a county geologist for Santa Clara County for 20 years, will remain with us through the half hour.
		Ghost to Ghost will happen tonight.
		Bear with us.
		Yeah, that kind of a night, huh?
		Good morning.
		This is Art Ball once again, and here is Jim Birkland again.
		Jim, the interesting thing that I thought Peter hit on was the emotional aspect of this.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, what it actually does to your psyche, the earth moving under your feet is the most out-of-control feeling I've ever felt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We had a 7.3 here in the desert that really rocked and rolled us, so I know exactly what it feels like.
unidentified		Well, the World Series quake of 7.1 is the only quake that ever frightened me.
		I wasn't too sure the county building was going to withstand it.
		And I had those same, what do you call them, Vietnam reflashes, what do you call those things?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Flashbacks.
unidentified		Flashbacks, yeah.
		Yes, and they last for a long time.
		But there were also flashes ahead.
		And you had mentioned when you talked to me earlier today about one you had, but here's a couple that I had.
		This is February 26th from Jeannie and Malti.
		Just returned to the vet with Mountain Man, her dog.
		A clean bill of health.
		His depression is not related to anything physical.
		Now I have to clean my birdcages tonight, and I'm dreading it.
		All of them are cranky, and I'm not looking forward to getting bitten.
		I'm experiencing right ear pain as I post right now and have had strange pains on the top of my head intermittently today.
		I don't usually get headaches on the top of my head, and every time I think it's going to really develop into something, it goes away.
		I honestly have a feeling something local is brewing.
		And then the next day, from Georgia, Digital Dave, the biggest something just hit me that I've ever experienced.
		It lasted at least 60, maybe 90 seconds, and it happened at 04.01 Eastern Standard Time.
		In all seriousness, I could barely move while it was happening.
		I'm sending out an alert because if it is a quake, it's a really bad one.
		And I got about 10 responses to that by other people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I have no idea what to attribute this predictive capability to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't have the slightest idea, but we are creatures like the ones that run around before earthquakes, you know, the little four-legged ones.
unidentified		Electromagnetic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we're creatures too.
		That's right, coming back to that again.
		I've got something I want you to hear.
		So just take a listen to this.
		This was on my show February 12th of 2001.
		In other words, well, what the hell is today?
		Let's see.
		Today is going into March 1st, and springtime approaches.
		So this wasn't right on the money, but this was as close as you're going to want to get.
		This is a caller to my show.
		This is why we took predictions on the air only.
		It was a caller to my show.
		2, 12, of 0, 1.
		Listen to this.
		West of the Rockies, You're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Reba calling from Colville.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Reba.
unidentified		And I am calling because my prediction is something that I've seen for the last 17 years, and that is that there will be a devastating earthquake.
unidentified		I know it will be the Seattle area, but I believe it will be the entire West Coast this spring, and it will be in the morning on a bright, beautiful, sunshiny day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anything that would be in the Seattle area and would affect the entire West, well, I don't know how much of Seattle would be left.
unidentified		I don't know either, but it's very alarming, and that's why I moved all the way to Colville.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Colville, huh?
unidentified		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you think you would escape there?
unidentified		And I'm all the way up on the 3,500 foot level.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you honestly made a decision to leave the Seattle area because you were worried about an earthquake?
unidentified		I saw it vividly.
unidentified		I saw what happened to my mobile home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did happen to it?
unidentified		It was destroyed.
unidentified		It was destroyed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And far more mobile pieces.
unidentified		It was flat.
		I mean, it went down a hill and it was flat.
		And the funny thing was that when they disconnected my mobile home from the foundation, that very night, there was a five-point quake in Auburn, and my mobile home slid back and forth on the bricks, you know, the big bricks that are underneath it support.
		It scared the London Day Lights out of us so bad we didn't spend the night in the house.
		But no, that is what I saw.
		And I've seen it over and over.
		And every time I see it, every year that goes by, it's like I'm closer to the leaves on the alder trees.
		And it's like I couldn't be any closer now than if I became the leaf.
		So, and I do believe that it's possible that ProPo is involved in this.
		All I know is that what is it, we will feel it all the way over here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that might be enough for me.
unidentified		So I think I probably that, yes, I moved here five years ago, and I couldn't get out fast enough.
unidentified		And I made sure that I was up at the 3,500-foot level when I moved.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you now believe it to be very close.
unidentified		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sure all the people listening in Seattle are real happy to hear this.
unidentified		Well, I should think to be forewarned is to be forearmed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		It is.
		But I mean, if you have, you know, a house you've paid a lot of money for and have a big mortgage on and a job and the kids are in school and you're really involved in your community, it's not necessarily something you want to hear, but fair enough.
unidentified		Oh, I believe that the kids will be out of school by the time this happens, or at least I hope so.
		I do hope so.
		And I hope people take it seriously.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sleepless, I'm sure, in Seattle.
		Thank you.
		All right.
		There it was.
		How do you account for predictions like that?
unidentified		20 years ago, I would have said, oh, that's just coincidence.
		But I have become a believer there are such things as psychic people.
		I've seen a number of these psychic predictions come true.
		And that was so close.
		I know.
		Yeah.
		Just like, well, on my website there, ScissorGJob.com, people can see what people have been saying.
		All of the past messages are there.
		And the birds were going crazy.
		Nobody's ever going to remember ScissorGZ.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we're getting a link up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you would please, Keith, get a link up.
unidentified		I'll tell you what happened.
		The last time there was a quake almost as strong, I mean, it was stronger than this.
		If they go back to 1949 on April 13th, the day after the eclipse of the moon and the day after the closest approach to the moon for the month, there was a very good seismic window.
		This earthquake caused heavy damage over a wide area in Washington and Oregon.
		Eight persons were killed.
		Many were injured.
		Total damage was estimated at about $25 million in 1949 dollars.
		At Olympia, nearly all large buildings were damaged and water and gas mains were broken.
		A half-mile section of a 300-foot cliff toppled into Puget Sound near Tacoma.
		Many towns reported toppled chimneys, cracked walls, and fallen plaster.
		Felt area extended eastward to western Montana and southward to Cape Blanco, Oregon, magnitude 7.1.
		Now, I understood this one was felt in Salt Lake City, which really is a long way.
		A long ways away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Looks away how deep it was, Henry.
		Jim, what is ahead?
		Is there anything else major that we should be watching out for anytime soon?
unidentified		This is a bad year, having seven magnitude sevens already.
		And in 1989, when we had the World Series quake, we only had six major quakes all year.
		And here's two months, and we've had seven.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But again, immediately ahead, Jim.
unidentified		Yes.
		March 7th through 14th is the next really good window.
		And I'm going to call it a seismic window.
		And again, I'm just getting out my newsletter tomorrow.
		It'll be in the mail.
		And I'm calling for another 3 to a 5.5 in the Seattle area.
		But after this, I mean, I wrote this up before the main shock.
		And so you're bound to have aftershocks, even though they're quite correct in saying with these deeper earthquakes, you get fewer aftershocks.
		That's because down there there's less water, and the pressure is so great, it usually doesn't give you small earthquakes.
		It waits until it gets enough energy to give you a big quake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Asking you why we're having so many quakes, in fact, they're all around me.
		I don't know if you've been watching the maps, but they're all around me.
		Oh, man.
		So asking you why we're suddenly having so many, probably not a productive question, huh?
unidentified		Well, yes.
		We're at a solar max.
		That's one thing.
		And if you took the greatest solar flares in the last 30 years, tied for fourth place were two in 1984 and in 1989, and both were within two days of the strongest two quakes in the Bay Area since 1911.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold on to something strong, folks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do people get your newsletter?
unidentified		Well, they can send me a sample, I'll send them a sample copy if they send me a business-sized envelope with a couple of dollars in it, and I'll mail them a recent copy of Syzygy.
unidentified		They must mail it to Peel Box 1926, Glenn Ellen, just like the line, two words, G-L-E-N, capital E-L-L-E-N, California, 95442.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could you do it again real fast?
unidentified		Peel Box 1926, Glenn Ellen, Cal 95442.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jim, thank you so much for coming.
unidentified		My pleasure, Arch.
unidentified		Sure, great to have you back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
		Good night, Jim.
		That's Jim Birkland, who was the county geologist, the official one for Santa Clara County for 20 years.
		And I don't know what to tell you up there in Seattle.
		Hang on, folks.
		I'm Art Bellin from the high desert.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast A.M. Babylon,
		take it down.
		In the day, nothing love.
		It's the night turn of sun.
		In the night, no control.
		Something breaking.
		Wearing white as you're walking down the street of the stone.
		Take my hand and take myself alone.
		Wanna take a ride?
		Call our Dell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
		The boil card line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		And to call it on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How to beat me all right, and it certainly is a weird night.
		Nights are strange.
		I can't tell you what's different, but it certainly isn't the same as the daytime, is it?
		Good morning.
		Covering what has happened in Seattle, and in a moment, covering something that happened in Florida that connects directly to the ghost-to-ghost show that we're going to be doing tonight.
		So stay right where you are.
		Dark nights just like these, huh?
		My affiliate in Cleveland, Ohio, is one of the nation's great old gigantic clear channel radio stations, WTAM 1100 in Cleveland.
		For that same radio station, there is a reporter, Mark Schwab is his name.
		That's S-C-H-W-A-B.
		He's a sports news and sports reporter.
		And I began getting faxes, oh, gosh, emails and faxes a couple of weeks ago, maybe not that long ago.
		And as we were contemplating the Ghost to Ghost program, people would write and say, did you know that there was a major incident with a sports reporter for WTAM?
		And I kept getting them, getting them, getting them.
		And finally, of course, I decided to call WTAM in Cleveland and find out what was going on.
		And here's the guy who can tell us, Mark Schwab.
		Mark, welcome.
unidentified		Top of the very early morning, THART.
unidentified		Central Florida.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To you as well.
unidentified		WTAM had sent you to Florida to do what?
		Cover the Indians.
		Spring training.
		We're the flagship home of the tribe, and the Indians happen to be my beat.
		So when spring training rolls around, I pack up, head to Winter Haven, Florida, where they practice and get ready for the season, and stay there until the season starts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, so then you're the guy who kind of looks them over and gives Cleveland a preview of what their team might or might not do.
unidentified		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do they look, by the way?
unidentified		On paper, they're excellent.
		On paper, they're excellent.
		They lost some guys.
		They brought some new guys in, and now, you know, it's whether or not the new phases blend with the old.
		The team chemistry clicks.
		I keep a few questions in the pitching staff get ironed out.
		But there's so many question marks that a few of the ifs are bound to pan out.
		So they should be all right this year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		So how long then?
		You stay there a total of how long?
unidentified		I flew in February 15th.
		I go home March 30th.
		What did you do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rent an apartment or stay in a hotel or what?
unidentified		They rented a they went to a country club and rented one big house for all of us to stay in because I'm down here and then eventually our show hosts will trickle in and they'll do shows from down here so there'll be more than one of us here eventually.
		There'll be two, three, four, five of us.
		So they just rented one big house and put us all in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One big house.
unidentified		One big house.
unidentified		And therein lies, I guess, the issue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I've got to tell you, now, my emails could have been wrong, but they said that you got so scared, so freaked out, over whatever it was that was happening that you refused to stay in the house.
unidentified		Yeah, it got to the point.
		I left one morning at 4.15 in the morning after hearing about an hour's worth of stuff.
		And yeah, it was kind of funny because I'm so skeptical and hard-headed about this kind of stuff.
		I still don't believe in it.
		I don't know.
		I'm usually the first person to tell someone they're an idiot or on crack when they say their house is on it.
		So it took a bit for me to finally get out of there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a long trip from they've got to be on crack to I'm out of here.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So how did I mean what the heck happened?
unidentified		All right.
		I flew in on a Thursday, Which was the 15th.
		The main event, I guess you could say, it really started to hit the fan on Sunday night.
		But for four days prior, I just noticed it was a noisy house.
		You know, some houses are noisy, appliances are loud, or you'll hear creaks or whatever, and those are just house noises.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've been in houses with bad pipes, and they're creepy.
		They make creepy sounds.
		Yeah.
unidentified		It was weird, though, because I'd be in the living room on the couch, and it would sound like somebody was walking in the bedroom down the hall.
		And it sounded like there would be a second person in there.
		But I just wrote it off as noise and figured, you know, whatever.
		You're the only one here.
		Just don't worry about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you knew you weren't doing lines of crack or whatever.
unidentified		Yeah, you know, and I was, yeah.
		I don't never touch a drug in my life, and I barely drink.
		All right, so it's going through four days of that, and then Sunday night, technically Monday morning, 3.04 a.m., an alarm clock goes off.
		And I thought it was mine at first because I had to get up at 7, looked up, it wasn't 7 o'clock, and it wasn't my alarm.
		It was one in a bedroom down the hall, a room that I hadn't been in in three days, and a clock that I had never touched.
		So I rolled running down the hall, I turned this thing off, and how did this get on?
		And I thought somebody maybe had broke into the place.
		So I looked over the place, and nobody was in.
		The doors were still locked.
		I said, okay, and I went back to bed, and I'm laying in there.
		It's driving me nuts.
		How did that clock get on?
		So I started hearing noise.
		It sounds like footsteps.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Footsteps.
unidentified		Yeah, like somebody's walking in the living room or walking through a bedroom.
unidentified		I'm thinking, there is somebody in this place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But still, even at that point, a logical mind would say somebody's breaking in.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or had you already gone past that and you knew nobody was in?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, where was your head at this point?
unidentified		Well, at this point, I knew I had looked over and I didn't see anybody, but not really one to assume, oh, it must be a ghost.
		The logical explanation to me is there's got to be somebody in here, and I just didn't see him.
		Sure.
		So I'm listening, and I'm still hearing every once in a while what sounds like people walking around.
		And for about 15, 10, 15 minutes of listening to this, from laying in my bed, I could see a little night light plugged in down the hall.
		And it's one of those really cheap night lights that just plug right into the wall, and there's a little bulb on it that lights up orange.
		It must be like a half a candle power, and they've been around since like 1920.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know the ones.
unidentified		Okay.
		So there's one out there.
		And all of a sudden it just goes off like the flash bulb on a camera.
		It just goes off that bright and gets dark.
		I'm thinking, what is that?
		And I figure, okay, bulb must have just been burning out.
		That was its last hurrah.
		That's why it's dark now.
		I still can't figure out why every once in a while I'm hearing footsteps.
		And then there's a sliding door next to the bed and leading out to the pool.
		And I hear this next to the sliding door.
		And the porch isn't closed.
		So I knew it couldn't have been anybody in there.
		So I'm like, what the?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that would have been enough for me right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would have been my limit.
unidentified		Oh, yeah?
		Yeah.
		Okay.
		So I hear a swish, and I had no idea what that was.
		I'm thinking middle of the night, maybe I'm hearing stuff.
		I don't know.
		Well, I don't know, another 10, 15 minutes goes by, and it sounds like somebody...
		When you put a glass of water down on a counter?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		Okay.
		Got that sound from a bathroom down the hall.
		And I'm like, what?
		And this is now reassuring to me that somebody is in the house.
		Somebody has broken in.
		I'm convinced.
		I still hear more footsteps every once in a while.
		Another 15, 20 minutes go by.
		The nightlight in the hall flashes up real bright again.
		There went my theory of the bulb that just burned out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you mean also a drift?
		Oh, my.
		Back in life.
unidentified		Yeah, came again, real bright.
		And then it just died.
		So I'm laying there in bed, trying to justify all this.
		I look at the clock, and suddenly it's almost 4 a.m.
		No, it's past 4 o'clock, 4.05.
		And I'm like, I'm talking to myself now.
		Joab, you've been awake an hour in the middle of the night listening to the noises and for whatever reason being scared.
		Nobody's in here.
		The doors are locked.
		Shut up and go to sleep.
		You've got to be up early.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		So I roll over, shut my eyes, and then had them shut for about 15 seconds, and I will go to my grave swearing that footsteps I heard in the hallway, heard somebody walk into the bedroom and walk right up to the bed so close to it that I could have reached out and grabbed them.
		Opened my eyes, there was nobody there.
		Throw on the light, grab an iron, because it was the only thing I could find in the bedroom that resembled a weapon.
		Did a once over of the place.
		Couldn't find a soul.
		At that point, I didn't know what to do, so I just figured, I got to get out of here.
		I got dressed, threw on my contact lenses, and like, and basically tucked out the back door, got in the car, and left.
		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And went, what, to a motel or something?
unidentified		No, I went to a payphone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Payphone.
unidentified		But I got about 4.10, 4.15, but I got out of there, excuse me.
		Called my wife, just woke her up, just like, hon, just bear with me for a minute.
		Tell me if I'm crazy.
		So I relayed everything to her, and she's like, no, I would have got out of there a lot sooner than you did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, me too.
unidentified		So I don't know what I did.
unidentified		I went and got a cup of coffee, called a couple people, called my minister.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your minister?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's interesting.
unidentified		He's a friend of the family.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what did he say?
unidentified		He said, I relayed everything to him.
		He's like, yep, sounds like you might have something in there.
		And as a Christian, you believe that they can't hurt you.
		They can scare you, but they can't harm you.
		So he told me that, and I had already knew that anyway, he basically reassured me.
		So that got me enough gumption to at least go back in around 7 o'clock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You went back?
unidentified		Well, I had to go to work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
unidentified		And I had to throw on a change of clothes, and my work bag was still there.
		So I went in for about five minutes and changed and got out of there.
		Nothing happened when I was back.
		One of the other phone calls I made was to my boss.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was going to say, my programmed director.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who is your program director?
unidentified		Ray Davis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ray Davis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you called Ray.
unidentified		I called Ray at home, and I'm like, Ray, you know me to be a pretty sane guy.
		He's like, yeah.
		So I told him everything, and he couldn't believe it.
		I mean, he believed me, but he was laughing, but he believed me.
		He's like, you've got to understand this does sound kind of funny back to Tamara.
		And I'm like, yeah, I can imagine.
		So he knows this girl who's a paranormal expert who apparently has been on our station before and done stuff with our station before.
		Her name was Mary Ann.
		So he called Mary Ann, and he said, you know, she can find out just being on the phone with you whether or not they're in there or if you're just crazy.
		I'm like, all right, great.
		Hopefully she'll tell me I'm crazy and I can just go on with life.
		And so he arranges it that at 3.10 that afternoon on our afternoon drive show, I'll be on with Mike, who was our show host, and Marianne will be on the phone too.
		So 3.10 rolls around.
		I go back to the house, not knowing what to expect.
		Everything was cool.
		I mean, you know, if I walked in, I didn't have anything throwing stuff at me, I guess.
		So I get on the phone.
		I recount my story to Mike and everyone who's listening.
		He thinks I'm half nuts.
		And then she starts to tell me what's up.
		She's like, well, I'll tell you this.
		Where's the room with the twin beds?
		I'm like, I never told you I had twin beds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you tell anybody?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, okay.
unidentified		No.
		So she's like, well, one is in there.
		It's a female.
		She's around 55.
		I'm like, oh, all right.
		Great.
		No, that was a male.
		I'm sorry, that was 55.
		She said, I see some kind of a split dresser with a mirror or something.
		I'm like, that's in the master bedroom.
		She's like, well, that's where the other one is.
		That's a female around the same age.
		I'm like, okay.
		At this point, I'm a little, I'm like officially freaked out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this is all on the air.
unidentified		This is on the air, which, by the way, was about the only thing keeping me sane through this afternoon.
		So she tells me then, is there something on this thing like a bag?
		I said, yeah.
		First I said no, and then I saw the bag, and she said, all right, she has moved, she is now there.
		And is there something like a bookshelf or maybe an entertainment center somewhere in their room?
		And there was an entertainment center with a TV in it that was behind me.
		And she's like, okay, he's moved.
		He's now there.
		Which would put them bookending me on each side of me by about five feet.
		So she's following them foot for foot around the house.
		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
unidentified		So I'm like, look to my left, look to my right.
		I'm like, so there's one on each side of me.
		And she said, yes.
		Apparently that made them aware that I was aware of them because then the swooshing sound, which she had told me earlier in the conversation, the swishing sound that I heard the night before was them moving.
		So the swooshing sound then all of a sudden picked up.
		Just while you were on the air.
		While I'm on the air.
		Now I had no windows open, no air conditioning on, no doors open.
		And for anyone that says, and I was trying to say at first, that's just a breeze.
		Still trying to convince myself that nothing was going on.
		But breezes don't turn corners.
		No, breezes don't come straight and hook a right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that's right.
unidentified		So it was picking up.
unidentified		They're flying all over the place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
unidentified		So I'm on the air with them.
		And Mike would be talking to Mary Ancy, and so what are they going to do?
		Are they going to come after one?
		And I would occasionally be like, hey, they're moving again.
		Here's what's going on.
		And I was on with Mike for about an hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A full hour of this.
unidentified		A full hour of this stuff.
		I was on hold and ready to hang up during our 4 o'clock newscast, which would have been around the clock, top of the hour, been an hour.
		And all of a sudden I hear a water faucet in the bathroom down the hall just like start to run a little bit of water.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nobody else is in the house?
unidentified		Nobody else is in the house.
unidentified		And then I start hearing all this splashing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Splashing.
unidentified		Now I'm trying to think what the heck that is.
		And then it hits me.
		The pool is behind me.
		And nobody was in the pool.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		The pool was enclosed.
unidentified		Nobody could have got into it.
		I didn't have a neighbor nearby with kids in a pool.
		All this splashing and stuff going on.
		I'm like, great.
		They're swimming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they're swimming.
unidentified		Wonderful.
		So I packed up.
		They told me they were sending me what are called smudge sticks, which I guess is like an incense that bothers the ghost.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, the hell with that.
unidentified		Get out of the house.
		Well, I did for now.
		For then, I got out.
		They were told me, my boss told me they had overnighted them to me.
		So I hung up, left, spent the night in the hotel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait, wait a minute.
unidentified		Your boss thought you were supposed to take, he was ordering you to take the smudge sticks and go back to the house?
unidentified		The next day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
unidentified		Well, I ended up doing it.
unidentified		So I'm on the air with them.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		My wife hears me.
unidentified		She can tell I'm freaked out.
		She flies down, spends the night with me in the hotel.
		Come back the next day with our smudge sticks.
		We light these things up.
		We're going through the house.
		And as we're putting them in each room, we can feel the ghost or whatever blow past me into the room.
		Oh, my God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy mackerel.
unidentified		So bottom line, you rid the house of them with the smudge sticks?
		You know what?
		I guess it knocks them out because we put them in every room.
		And then I called Mary Ann back, the paranormal expert, and I said, all right, so what's going on?
		She's like, well, one's in the bedroom, and it's pretty well knocked out.
		That's her.
		And the guy's out in the garage and he's not doing so well either.
		I'm like, all right, great.
		So they were like hammered or drunk, stoned, whatever you want to call them.
		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably pissed off.
unidentified		Well, yeah.
		And you know what?
		Enjoy.
		So I took that opportunity to pack up all my stuff, got out of there, and haven't been back since.
		And I don't plan them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you told your boss you weren't going back, I mean, that's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm out of there.
unidentified		Well, yeah, at first he, at first, we didn't know because fortunately the folks at the Country Club place were nice enough to believe us, and they just got us a new house.
		But at first, we didn't know if that was going to be the case.
		So you had to tell them this whole story and get them to believe you?
		Yeah, and fortunately, they believed us, and then we sent them a cassette of the hour.
		I was on with Mike and the paranormal girl, and that might have helped to convince them anyway.
		So, they got us a new house, but it was up for a couple days.
		We didn't know what we were going to do.
		I spent two nights in a hotel, and my boss is like, well, you just might have to, he gives me smoke sticks every two, three days or have somebody come in and bless the house.
		I'm like, no, I am not paying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Enough is enough, right?
unidentified		Well, yeah, I mean, it was, they also paged me.
		That was the other thing.
		When I got into the house, when I checked in that Thursday, five minutes after I had been there, my pager went off.
		8888.
		And I didn't think anything of it.
		I figured somebody paged me a toll-free number, and I never got the rest of it.
		I called my boss, called a couple friends.
		Somebody had paged me, and I just disregarded it and moved on.
		After I hung up with Mike that day on the afternoon show, when Marianne had said they're here, and I had heard all the swishing, I hung up, went into the bedroom to pack up an overnight bag, and I got paged again, 8888.
		And I had talked to her later on.
		I said, can they do anything to pager?
		And she said, yeah, they can use the phone.
		it's easy for them to use the 5 and the 8 button so I'm like Oh, I figure there's answers to it all, and I don't know them all.
		And you know what?
		I've been alive on this earth 26 and a half years.
		I've had to deal with it once.
		Honestly, I don't care enough to try to find out all the answers.
		I got out of the house.
		Let me get back to doing my job of watching baseball, and I'll be a happy guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Brother, thank you very much for being here.
		Thank WTAM for allowing you to be here and telling your story.
		Good night, my friend.
unidentified		Good night, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
		There you have it, folks.
		A non-believer.
		Well, he was.
		We'll be back.
unidentified		I was among the creatures of the night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got to beat me, all right.
		And it certainly is a weird night.
		Nights are strange.
		I can't tell you what's different, but it certainly isn't the same as the daytime, is it?
		Good morning.
		Covering what has happened in Seattle, and in a moment, covering something that happened in Florida that connects directly to the ghost-to-ghost show that we're going to be doing tonight.
		So stay right where you are.
		My affiliate in Cleveland, Ohio, is one of the nation's great old gigantic clear channel radio stations, WTO.
		T-A-M 1100 in Cleveland.
		For that same radio station, there is a reporter, Mark Schwab is his name, at NCHWAB.
		He's a news and sports reporter.
		And I began getting taxes, oh gosh, emails and taxes a couple of weeks ago, maybe not that long ago.
		And as we were contemplating the Ghost to Ghost program, people would write and say, did you know that there was a major incident with a sports reporter for WTAM?
		And I kept getting them and getting them and getting them.
		And finally, of course, I decided to call WTAM in Cleveland and find out what was going on.
		And here's the guy who can tell us, Mark Schwab.
		Mark, welcome.
unidentified		Top of the very early morning, Tia, Central Florida.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To you as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		WTAM had sent you to Florida to do what?
unidentified		Cover the Indians, spring training.
		We're the flagship home of the tribe, and the Indians happen to be my beat.
		So when spring training rolls around, I pack up, head to Winter Haven, Florida, where they practice and get ready for the season, and stay there until the season starts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, so then you're the guy who kind of looks them over and gives Cleveland a preview of what their team might or might not do.
unidentified		Exactly.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do they look, by the way?
unidentified		On paper, they're excellent.
		They lost some guys, they brought some new guys in, and now, you know, it's whether or not the new faces blend with the old.
		The team chemistry clicks, and I keep a few questions, and the pitching staff get ironed out.
		But there's so many question marks that a few of the ifs are bound to pan out, so they should be all right this year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so how long then you stay there a total of how long?
unidentified		I flew in on February 15th.
unidentified		I go home March 30th.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rent an apartment or stay in a hotel or what?
unidentified		They rented a they went to a country club and rented one big house for all of us to stay in because I'm down here, and then eventually our show hosts will trickle in, and they'll do shows from down here, so there'll be more than one of us here eventually.
		There'll be two, three, four, five of us.
		So they just rented one big house and put us all in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One big house.
unidentified		One big house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And therein lies, I guess, the issue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I've got to tell you, now, my emails could have been wrong, but they said that you got so scared, so freaked out, over whatever it was that was happening that you refused to stay in the house.
unidentified		Yeah, it got to the point.
		I left one morning at 4.15 in the morning after hearing about an hour's worth of stuff.
		And yeah, it was kind of funny because I'm so skeptical and hard-headed about this kind of stuff.
		I still don't believe in it, I guess.
		I don't know.
		I'm usually the first person that tells someone they're an idiot or on crack when they say their house is haunted.
		So it took a bit for me to finally get out of there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a long trip from they've got to be on crack to I'm out of here.
		Yeah.
		So how did I mean what the heck happened?
unidentified		All right.
		I flew in on a Thursday, which was the 15th.
		The main event, I guess you could say, it really started to hit the fan on Sunday night.
		But for the four days prior, I just noticed it was a noisy house.
		You know, some houses are noisy.
		Appliances are loud, or you'll hear creaks or whatever, and those are just house noises.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've been in houses with bad pipes, and they're creepy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They make creepy sounds.
unidentified		Yeah.
		It was weird, though, because I'd be in the living room on the couch, and it would sound like somebody was walking in the bedroom down the hall.
		It sounded like there would be a second person in there.
		But I just wrote it off as noise and figured, you know, whatever.
		You're the only one here.
		Just don't worry about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you knew you weren't doing lines of crack or whatever.
unidentified		Yeah, you know, I don't never touch a drug in my life, and I barely drink.
		All right, so let's go through four days of that, and then a Sunday night, technically Monday morning, 3.04 a.m., an alarm clock goes off.
		And I thought it was mine at first because I had to get up at 7, looked up, wasn't 7 o'clock, and it wasn't my alarm.
		It was one in a bedroom down the hall, a room that I hadn't been in in three days, and a clock that I had never touched.
		So I running down the hall, I turned this thing off, and how did this get on?
		And I thought somebody maybe had broke into the place.
		So I looked over the place, and nobody was in.
		The doors were still locked.
		I said, okay, I went back to bed, and I'm laying in there.
		It's driving me nuts.
		How did that clock get on?
		So I started hearing noise.
		Sounds like footsteps.
		Footsteps?
		Yeah, like somebody's walking in the living room or walking through a bedroom.
		I'm thinking there is somebody in this place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But still, even at that point, a logical mind would say somebody's breaking in.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or had you already gone past that and you knew nobody was in?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, where was your head at that point?
unidentified		Well, at this point, I knew I had looked over and I didn't see anybody, but not really one to assume, oh, it must be a ghost.
unidentified		The logical explanation to me is there's got to be somebody in here, and I just didn't see him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		So I'm listening, and I'm still hearing every once in a while what sounds like people walking around.
		And after about 15, 10, 15 minutes of listening to this, from laying in my bed, I could see a little night light plugged in down the hall.
		And it's one of those really cheap night lights that just plug right into the wall, and there's a little bulb on it that lights up orange.
		It must be like a half a candle power, and they've been around since like 1920.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know the ones.
unidentified		Okay.
		So there's one out there.
		And all of a sudden it just goes off like the flash bulb on a camera.
		It just goes off that bright and gets dark.
		I'm thinking, what is that?
		And I figure, okay, the bulb must have just been burning out.
		That was its last hurrah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		That's why it's dark now.
		But I still can't figure out why every once in a while I'm hearing footsteps.
		And then there's a sliding door next to the bed and leading out to the pool.
		And I hear this next to the sliding door.
		And the porch isn't closed.
		So I knew it couldn't have been anybody in there.
		So I'm like, what the?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that would have been enough for me right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would have been my limit.
unidentified		Oh, yeah?
		Yeah.
		Okay, so I hear a swish.
		I had no idea what that was.
		I'm thinking, middle of the night, maybe I'm hearing stuff.
		I don't know.
		Well, I don't know, another 10, 15 minutes goes by, and it sounds like somebody...
		Can you put a glass of water down on a counter?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		Okay.
		got that sound from a bathroom down the hall.
		Uh-huh.
		And I'm like, what in that?
		Somebody has broken in, I'm convinced.
		I still hear more footsteps every once in a while.
		Well, another 15, 20 minutes go by.
		The nightlight in the hall flashes up real bright again.
		There went my theory of the bulb that just burned out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you mean also it?
		Oh, my.
		Back to life.
unidentified		Yeah, it came again, real bright.
		And then it just died.
		So I'm laying there in bed trying to justify all this.
		I look at the clock, and suddenly it's almost 4 a.m.
		No, it's past, I don't know, 4 o'clock, 405.
		And I'm like, I'm talking to myself now.
		You know, Schwab, you've been awake an hour in the middle of the night listening to the noises and, for whatever reason, being scared.
		Nobody's in here.
		The doors are locked.
		Shut up and go to sleep.
		You've got to be up early.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		So I roll over, shut my eyes, and then had them shut for about 15 seconds, and I will go to my grave swearing the footsteps I heard in the hallway, heard somebody walk into the bedroom and walk right up to the bed so close to it that I could have reached out and grabbed them.
		Opened my eyes, there was nobody there.
		Throw on the light, grab an iron, because it was the only thing I could find in the bedroom that resembled a weapon.
		Did a once-over of the place.
		Couldn't find a soul.
		At that point, I didn't know what to do, so I just figured, I got to get out of here.
		I got dressed, threw on my contact lenses, and like, and basically tucked out the back door, got in the car, and left.
		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And went, what, to a motel or something?
unidentified		No, I went to a payphone.
		Payphone.
		It was about 4.10, 4.15, but somebody got out of there, excuse me.
		Called my wife, woke her up, just like, hon, just bear with me for a minute.
		Tell me if I'm crazy.
		So I relayed everything to her, and she's like, no, I would have got out of there a lot sooner than you did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, me too.
unidentified		So I don't know what I did.
unidentified		Went and got a cup of coffee, called a couple people, called my minister.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your minister?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's interesting.
unidentified		Put him in front of the family.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what did he say?
unidentified		He said, I relayed everything to him.
		He's like, yep, sounds like you might have something in there.
		And as a Christian, you believe that they can't hurt you.
		They can scare you, but they can't harm you.
		So he told me that, and I had already knew that anyway, he basically reassured me.
		So that got me enough gumption to at least go back in around 7 o'clock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You went back?
unidentified		Well, I had to go to work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
unidentified		And I had to throw on a change of clothes, and my work bag was still there.
		So I went in for about five minutes and changed and got out of there.
		Nothing happened when I was back.
		One of the other phone calls I made was to my boss.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was going to say.
unidentified		My program director.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who is your program director?
unidentified		Ray Davis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ray Davis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you called Ray.
unidentified		I called Ray at home, and I'm like, Ray, you know me to be a pretty sane guy.
		He's like, yeah.
		So I told him everything, and he couldn't believe it.
		I mean, he believed me, but he was laughing, but he believed me.
		He's like, you've got to understand this stuff sounds kind of funny back to Famarin.
		I'm like, yeah, I can imagine that.
		So he knows this girl who is a paranormal expert who apparently has been on our station before and done stuff with our station before.
		Her name was Mary Ann.
		So he called Mary Ann, and he said, you know, she can find out just being on the phone with you whether or not they're in there or if you're just crazy.
		I'm like, all right, great.
		Hopefully she'll tell me I'm crazy and I can just go on with life.
		And so he arranges it that at 3.10 that afternoon on our afternoon drive show, I'll be on with Mike, who was our show host, and Mary Ann will be on the phone too.
		So 3.10 rolls around.
		I go back to the house, not knowing what to expect.
		Everything was cool.
		Nobody, I mean, you know, I walked in, I didn't have anything throwing stuff at me, I guess.
		So I get on the phone, I recount my story to Mike, and everyone is listening.
		He thinks I'm half nuts.
		And then she starts to tell me what's up.
		She's like, well, I'll tell you this.
		Where's the room with the twin beds?
		I'm like, I never told you I had twin beds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you tell anybody?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, okay.
unidentified		No.
		So she's like, well, one is in there.
		It's a female.
		She's around 55.
		I'm like, oh, all right.
		Great.
		No, that was a male.
		I'm sorry, that was 55.
		She said, I see some kind of a split dresser with a mirror or something.
		I'm like, that's in the master bedroom.
		She's like, well, that's where the other one is.
		That's a female around the same age.
		I'm like, okay.
		At this point, I'm a little, I'm like officially freaked out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this is all on the air.
unidentified		This is on the air, which, by the way, was about the only thing keeping me sane through this afternoon.
		So she tells me then, is there something on the sink like a bag?
		I said, yeah.
		First I said no, and then I saw the bag, and she said, all right, she has moved, she is now there.
		And is there something like a bookshelf or maybe an entertainment center somewhere in the room?
		And there was an entertainment center with a TV in it that was behind me.
		And she's like, okay, he's moved.
		He's now there.
		Which would put them bookending me on each side of me by about five feet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So she's following them foot for foot around the house.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
unidentified		So I'm like, look to my left, look to my right.
		I'm like, so there's one on each side of me.
		She said, yes.
		Apparently that made them aware that I was aware of them because then the swishing sound, which she had told me earlier in the conversation, the squishing sound that I heard the night before was them moving.
		So the swishing sound, then all of a sudden picked up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just while you were on the air.
unidentified		While I'm on the air.
		Now I had no windows open, no air conditioning on, no doors open.
		And for anyone that said, and I was trying to say at first, that's just a breeze.
		Still trying to convince myself that nothing was going on.
		But breezes don't turn corners.
		No, breezes don't go straight and hook a right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that's right.
unidentified		So it was picking up.
unidentified		They're flying all over the place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
unidentified		So I'm on the air with them.
		And Mike would be talking to Mary Ancy, and so what are they going to do?
		Are they going to come after one?
		And I would occasionally be like, hey, they're moving again.
		Here's what's going on.
		I was on with Mike for about an hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A full hour of this stuff.
unidentified		A full hour of this stuff.
		I was on hold and ready to hang up during our 4 o'clock newscast, which would have been around the clock, top of the hour, been an hour.
		And all of a sudden I hear a water faucet in the bathroom down the hall just like start to run a little bit of water.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nobody else is in the house?
unidentified		Nobody else is in the house.
unidentified		And then I start hearing all this splashing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Splashing.
unidentified		And I'm trying to think what the heck that is.
		And then it hits me.
		The pool is behind me.
		And nobody was in the pool.
		The pool was enclosed.
		Nobody could have got into it.
		I didn't have a neighbor nearby with kids in a pool.
		All this splashing and stuff going on.
		I'm like, great.
		They're swimming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they're swimming.
unidentified		Wonderful.
		So I packed up.
		They told me they were sending me what are called smudge sticks, which I guess is like an incense that bothers the ghost.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, to hell with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Get out of the house.
unidentified		Well, I did for now.
		For then, I got out.
		They were told me, my boss told me they had overnighted them to me.
		So I hung up, left, spent the night in a hotel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your boss thought you were supposed to take, he was ordering you to take the smudge sticks and go back to the house?
unidentified		The next day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
unidentified		Well, I ended up doing it.
		Very well.
		So I'm on the air with them.
		My wife hears me.
		She can tell I'm freaked out.
		She flies down.
		Spends the night with me in the hotel.
		Come back the next day with our smudge sticks.
		We light these things up.
		We're going through the house.
		And as we're putting them in each room, we can feel the ghost or whatever blow past me out of the room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
		Holy mackerel.
		So, bottom line, you rid the house of them with the smudge sticks?
unidentified		You know what?
		I guess it knocks them out because we put them in every room.
		And then I called Mary Ann back, the paranormal expert, and I said, all right, so what's going on?
		She's like, well, one's in the bedroom, and it's pretty well knocked out.
		That's her.
		And the guy's out in the garage and he's not doing so well either.
		I'm like, all right, great.
		So they were like hammered or drunk, stoned, whatever you want to call them.
		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably pissed off.
unidentified		Well, yeah.
		And you know what?
		Enjoy.
		So I took that opportunity to pack up all my stuff, got out of there, and haven't been back since.
		And I don't plan them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you told your boss you weren't going back, I mean, that's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm out of there.
unidentified		Well, you know, at first he at first we didn't know because fortunately the folks at the Country Club place were nice enough to believe us, and they just got us a new house.
unidentified		But at first, we didn't know if that was going to be the case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you had to tell them this whole story and get them to believe you?
unidentified		Yeah, and fortunately, they believed us, and then we sent them a cassette of the hour.
		I was on with Mike and the paranormal girl, and that might have helped to convince them anyway.
		So they got us a new house, but it was up for a couple days.
		We didn't know what we were going to do.
		I spent two nights in a hotel, and my boss is like, well, you just might have to keep using these smudge ticks every two, three days.
		We'll have somebody come in and bless the house.
		I'm like, no, I am not paying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Enough is enough, right?
unidentified		Well, yeah.
		I mean, it was...
		That was the other thing.
		When I got into the house, when I checked in that Thursday, five minutes after I had been there, my pager went off.
		8888.
		And I didn't think anything of it.
		I figured somebody paged me a toll-free number, and I never got the rest of it.
		I called my boss, called a couple friends, somebody had paged me, and I just disregarded it and moved on.
		After I hung up with Mike that day on the afternoon show, when Marianne had said they're here, and I had heard all the swishing, I hung up, went into the bedroom to pack up an overnight bag, and I got paged again, 8888.
		And I had talked to her later on.
		I said, Can they do anything with your pager?
		She said, Yeah, they can use you know, they can use the phone.
		It's easy for them to use the five and the eight button.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I'm like, so is is Well, Mark, as somebody who uh was v is very level-headed, because you still are, and never believed in this kind of stuff, how do you feel now?
unidentified		Oh, I figure there's answers to it all, and I don't know them all.
		And you know what?
		I've been alive on this earth 26 and a half years, and I've had to deal with it once.
		Honestly, I don't care enough to try to find out all the answers.
		I got out of the house.
		Let me get back to doing my job of watching baseball, and I'll be a happy guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, brother, thank you very much for being here.
		Thank WTAM for allowing you to be here and telling your story.
		Good night, my friend.
unidentified		Good night, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
		There you have it, folks.
		A non-believer.
		Well, he was.
		We'll be back.
unidentified		We'll be back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		That certainly is appropriate for tonight, isn't it?
		Let me first tell you that on my website, we have about three pages of brand new ghost photographs for tonight's program.
		You just heard the reporter in the last half hour from WTAM in Cleveland, who was a complete non-believer in this sort of thing, and it got to the point where the house he was provided down in Florida no longer was livable.
		Obviously, it was haunted.
		And non-believer that he is, he finally had had enough and he left, and he will not go back to that house, and I don't blame him.
		When we do ghost to ghost, we do serious and real ghost stories.
		That's why it's frightening.
		These aren't made up.
		It's not baloney.
		It's real.
		So I warn you, if you frighten easily, turn the radio off.
		A lot of what you're going to hear tonight is going to be frightening.
		Most of what you're going to hear tonight comes from all of you.
		Your real stories.
		That's exactly what makes them so frightening.
		I don't laugh at people who have these experiences.
		I don't laugh at all.
		Mark Schwab, I'm sure, got chuckled at by his friends at WTAM.
		But I can assure you, if it happens to you, the smile gets wiped off your face very quickly indeed.
		Are ghosts captured on film?
		Yes, they are.
		On digital cameras?
		Yes, they are.
		And if you'll go to my website right now, let me see, and you go to program and tonight's guest info, you will see Ghost to Ghost AM with Art Bond.
		Then below it, you'll see recent ghost photos, three pages.
		Take a look at some of those.
		There's a fire photograph in there that is evil from start to finish.
		There is a photograph that'll just scare the you-know-what out of you.
		It's obviously not just the random flicker of a flame caught on film, but something truly evil caught on film.
		And that's one of many up there, but it's completely freaky.
		That's all I can tell you.
		Completely freaky.
		All right.
		Now, I've got somebody on the phone that sent me fax earlier today that freaked me out because it has to do with a man that I worked with.
		And some of you may recall that I did a guest appearance on Dark Skies, NBC's Dark Skies.
		Remember that?
		And I played one of the majestic 12 board members.
		And the actor that I was with, who was the star of the show, was J.T. Walsh, who passed away, I think now about three years ago.
		J.T. was a great guy, a great actor, and a man who helped me.
		I hate TV.
		Man, I hate television.
		I ward off TV like some people ward off evil.
		I just don't like it.
		I turn it down, right, and left.
		But working with J.T. was really fun because he was so relaxed and so natural and so intense with regard to what he was doing.
		And he just relaxed me, and we had a blast doing Dark Skies, an absolute blast.
		Now, why have I said all of this?
		Well, there's a reason.
		It's the man who sent me the facts.
		His name is Todd.
		Todd, welcome to the program.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know that you're coming on here tentatively and that you weren't even sure you wanted to do this, right?
unidentified		Yeah, that's true, Art.
		The only reason I'm coming on tentatively, I guess, is because I guess I'm not worried about myself.
		I just wanted to think and respect the family of JT and his son.
		He's a good friend of mine.
		And, yeah, so it's an intimate thing.
		So I was a little bit tentative, but I thought, you know, JT was a big fan of yours and of your show and of this type of subject.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Apparently so.
		Now, I didn't really know that.
		I mean, I knew the show that JT was doing, but you put some details in the facts that surprised me.
		I had no idea J.T. was apparently into the unusual, but he was, wasn't he?
		Now, you were in J.T.'s house.
		Why were you in his house?
unidentified		Well, his son, as I mentioned, is a good friend of mine.
unidentified		And about two years after JT passed, myself and two other friends moved into the house with his son.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I met his son at the airport, or I should say his son met me at the airport, believe it or not.
		J.T. sent his son down to the airport when I came to do that episode of Dark Skies, so I met his son.
		Very nice fella.
unidentified		Yeah, he actually had mentioned that m to me once before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no kidding.
		Yeah.
		All right, so you moved into the house with his son, and then one other?
unidentified		Actually, two other people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Two others.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		And we all, from time to time, had a number of experiences, but I think that I probably, for some reason, had the most or kind of absorbed the brunt of the experiences.
unidentified		As a matter of fact, as that last guest that you just had on there, I just wanted to say that those types of stories in the house were a common type of occurrence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of, like what?
unidentified		Well, first of all, I want to say that I always got the sense that this spirit in the house was not a mean spirit.
		As a matter of fact, it was quite friendly.
		And just the sense that I got, and I got the sense that this spirit actually kind of liked us being there and living in the house.
		But, well, here's one thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, just before you go on, you wrote, I also want to point out the study, which I guess you're going to talk about, was filled with books paralleling the topics of your show, including books on ghosts and communicating from the other side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is in J.T. Walsh's house, right?
unidentified		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		So some I still have in my possession to this day.
		You say, including a copy of the script from the episode that I was in with him?
unidentified		Dark Skies, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding.
unidentified		No.
		As a matter of fact, Art, I learned of J.T.'s death from your show.
		I was driving in my car late that night, and I was friends with John, although I didn't know JT in life.
		I was friends with John.
		I was riding home late at night listening to your show, and I learned of JT's death from your program, from your voice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So JT obviously was considering all of this, whether there was life after death, and if there was, could one communicate from the other side?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was obviously considering all this.
unidentified		Most definitely.
unidentified		In my opinion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then, at one point in here, you say you were finally living in a full-blown haunted house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that accurate?
unidentified		That's accurate, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, when you say full-blown haunted house, what do you mean?
unidentified		Well, just like that gentleman was talking about earlier, talking about, you know, common thing was hearing footsteps a lot, flickering of lights on and off, doors that would lock.
		We never, like, for example, the front door would lock a lot.
		But none of us, we were all bachelors.
		It was just kind of foolish.
		But none of us had a key to the front door, and you could only lock it from the inside.
		And there was a lot of times that I stayed alone in the house, and I would leave to go do this or do that.
		And I couldn't have possibly locked the front door myself because then I wouldn't have been able to leave the house because I could only lock it from the inside without a key.
		I would come home a lot, and the front door would be locked, and I would be the only person that would be there.
		Every now and then you would hear like a distant kind of a whispering voice over your shoulder, and you kind of look to see.
		And a lot of times you really got an intense feeling of being watched, and particularly in different parts of the house.
		As a matter of fact, later on, as the experience began to escalate, we went through two different sets of cleaning ladies because they refused to clean in the house anymore because of the experiences that they were having.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Obviously, you're not.
		No, I'm not.
		Is it your view that it was JT?
		Do you have any idea?
unidentified		Well, you know what?
		I'm not a medium, and I'm not the expert at all, like the woman who was on the previous interview.
		But if it wasn't him, I got the sense that it was.
		If it wasn't him, then it could have been another spirit that was maybe posing as him.
		His ashes were in the house.
		There were a lot of different things that pointed in that direction.
		I would work in his study a lot, and different times I would, and I'm an aspiring filmmaker myself, and I would be breaking down the script and coming up with creative choices.
		And in a weird, backhanded kind of a way, I would get this sense of inspiration, so to speak, when I would reach a sticking point.
		And as these different things began to escalate, oh, by the way, there was a front gate, electric gate that would open and close on its own when you had to know which telephone line and what the code was for that.
		I mean, these things went on and on and on all the time.
		There were times when my girlfriend and I, who I was dating at the time, it became so obvious that we would literally leave the house for the night.
		You know, it was a classic haunting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean by a normal glass of wine would turn into a bottle or even two?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean?
unidentified		Oh, that was where I was kind of leading.
		Eventually, my personality when I was in the house kind of began to change.
		Oh?
		This is kind of more difficult to talk about than I thought.
		I would start picking up books that I wouldn't normally pick up, watching movies I wouldn't normally watch.
		I started drinking a lot more in the house than I normally would.
		And I know JT in his past had that habit.
		And just lots of different things.
		It was almost as if I was kind of taking on his personality.
		And I don't know if this means anything.
		I'm not an expert by any means, but it was almost like there was residual life or energy from him, some kind of in the furniture and the walls and the artwork and the books and everything that almost kind of rubbed off on you.
		I don't know if that makes any sense, but sure it does.
		that was kind of how it felt and one night in particular uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be somebody who is able to feel what others are feeling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That imprint is on them, and they essentially start to become that and start to feel the pain, if not more, from that person or entity in this case.
unidentified		I think that that's probably true.
		At any rate, my personality when I was in the house was kind of starting to change.
		And this night in particular, it was getting close toward the sale of the house, Which was kind of another factor.
		Things really kind of started to escalate, particularly with my kind of empathic experience, as you put it.
		And I just was going to start off by having a glass of wine, and a glass of wine led to, you know, those big, huge bottles of wine that are almost as big as two or three.
		So I ended up drinking that whole thing by myself in the hot tub that night and breaking glass all over the house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, there are people who are going to say doing that could cause delusions.
unidentified		Well, that's probably true.
		And I would admit that, you know.
		But it may be just coincidence.
		It may have just been an unconscious thing, but the next morning the realtor was coming to show the house, which obviously wasn't a very good thing.
		But I always kind of got the sense that whatever the spirit was didn't want us to leave and didn't want any new people to come in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, that would make sense, wouldn't it?
unidentified		It did kind of at the time, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Since his son was there.
unidentified		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would make all the sense in the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And by the way, what did his son say about, did you talk with him about this?
unidentified		We did.
		And there were, you know, there were other, the other guys in the house were having pretty intense experiences as well.
		He had mentioned that there were other friends and family, close friends and family, that he had that had noticed other things.
		And he didn't deny the fact, but he didn't quite have the intense experiences I don't think that we had.
		So I don't know if in a weird kind of a way it kind of comforted him or I can't really speak to him, but he was aware of it, but I just don't think to the extent that we were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, J.T. Walsh was a very, very strong personality.
		So it would not surprise me that Indeath, if it were possible, and if we don't know half of what we know about the other side, and I'm still learning as everybody else is, but such a strong, dominant personality might indeed make an imprint of the sort that you described on somebody living in that house, particularly shortly after death.
		I really can see that happening.
unidentified		It wouldn't surprise me at all.
		Although, you know, I will say for a large part of this, even though you kind of became aware of this was happening, you still are kind of in a sense of denial when things happen to you right in front of your face.
		When the door locks right in front of your face or whatever it might be, you still are in a sense of denial about it.
		You don't live every moment while you're in a house like this where you're constantly thinking about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		Which kind of leads to my last story.
unidentified		This gets a little bit crazier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's okay.
unidentified		Go ahead.
		Well, one of the things that would happen to me a lot almost nightly is my bed would shake.
		And there would be the fresh smell of smoke coming from the next room, which was the smoking room.
		And JT was a smoker and, you know, things like that, which I don't know if that's the case or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your bed would shake?
unidentified		My bed would shake almost nightly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how hard?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I remember it.
unidentified		Until I woke up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You remember the exorcist?
unidentified		Yeah, but it was never anything like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But enough to wake you up.
unidentified		And usually it would until I woke up.
		And after a while, it would actually continue to shake after I was awake.
		And then after a while, again, it would just start shaking even before I fell asleep.
		And sometimes I couldn't tell if it was the bed that was shaking or if I knew it was shaking when I woke up and my heart was pounding so hard that it was my heart that was causing it.
		And yet sometimes I would feel like things in the mattress and like fingers and things like that.
		But I, you know, and I actually checked the mattress to see if there was mice in it and with my roommates and all kinds of stuff.
		And it was nothing.
		They happen almost every night.
		But this one night in particular, I had fallen into a very deep sleep, and I hadn't slept very deeply lately because of the shaking bed stuff.
		And I had reached this very deep place in sleep.
		You know, that point where you kind of start to reach almost a sleep paralysis?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		You know what I mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
unidentified		Well, it was almost as if, and I don't know this for certain, but this is the impression that I got, that whatever this being or entity was was waiting for me to reach that place.
unidentified		And the moment that I did, I could almost see that it was almost as if it was a shadow type being grabbed my right arm from the right side of my bed and started to pull me out of my body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pull you out of your body.
unidentified		Pull me out of my own body.
		Yes, that's correct.
		And it actually became a struggle for quite a while.
		It seemed like a long time, but I'm sure it was only just a few seconds.
		And I got the sense that this being was almost trying to get inside of me.
		I don't know if that's what it was, if it was just my imagination.
		I know it wasn't a dream.
		I know that for sure.
		Because as soon as I snapped back and kind of got right back into myself, I was awake right away.
		And that was by far, even though things that happened physically in the house and things like that, that was by far the most dramatic experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, you and I, I then have no way to know that it was J.T. Walsh, but it was his house shortly after he passed away.
		So that's some story, my friend.
		I really appreciate your telling us.
		I assume that house has now been sold.
unidentified		Yes, it has.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you're not experiencing it anymore.
		What we can hope is that J.T. is at peace.
		I'm sure he is.
		He certainly does.
unidentified		I think so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, my friend.
unidentified		Have a good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
		I don't know.
		You decide.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		Here on out tonight, the only thing we're doing is taking your ghost stories.
		And by that, I mean the real ones.
		The serious ones.
		Not the little insignificant ones, but the serious ones.
		It's called Ghost to Ghost.
		And it's coming right up.
		It's nighttime.
		It's the time you do this sort of thing.
		This is Ghost to Ghost, and I turn the rest of the night over to all of you.
		Let us begin.
		On the first time caller line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
		Art?
		Yes.
unidentified		How's it going?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Ellensburg.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ellensburg, Washington.
unidentified		Washington, where I felt the quake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was going to be the next question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you did.
unidentified		Well, I have several stories of the same type.
unidentified		I'll tell you one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just give me your best shot.
unidentified		The most recent, I was asleep in my girlfriend's place, and I had had a bad cough.
		And so during the night, while I was coughing, I popped a lozenger in my mouth, and I felt four taps on my shoulder.
		I was asleep with the cough drop in my mouth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not supposed to do that anyway.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		It was the only way I could sleep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And there were such heavy taps that I woke my girlfriend and asked her, you know, did you have to hit me like that?
		You know?
		And it just made sense that I thought it was her telling me I had a cough drop in my mouth.
		But it was such a serious physical touch that there could be no way that it was anything else than her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Only it was.
unidentified		No, it wasn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it was something other than her.
unidentified		Oh, yes, yes, yeah.
		Yeah.
		So?
		I thought so.
		And those are my other stories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what do you think had hold of you?
unidentified		I don't know.
		I don't know if it was ethereal or just paranormal or I don't know.
		I have no idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe it's something that wanted you to go somewhere.
unidentified		Or not go somewhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or not go somewhere.
unidentified		By, you know, not choking or whatever, because it was in the very back of my throat when I woke up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The lozenge?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, there are some who would say it was a sleep thing that nobody was tapping on you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's others who would say that it was maybe your guardian angel trying to save your life because you were about to choke to death on a throat lozenge.
unidentified		Well, I'm saying, well, right.
unidentified		I know it seems silly, you know, but I wouldn't have called in if I didn't think it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, not silly.
		Not silly, sir.
		I appreciate your call.
		Thank you.
		Maybe, you know, look, who's to say what the nature of the other side is?
		Who's to say that besides scaring the you-know-what out of you and being evil, and there certainly are evil entities.
		And by the way, again, go to my website.
		You want to see an evil entity.
		I'll show you one.
		We've got three pages of recent ghost photos, and there's one in there of a fire.
		And if that's not the most evil entity I've ever seen, anyway, you judge for yourself at www.artbell.com.
		We've been saving the ghost photographs, the new ones.
		And we've got, I think, one of the best collections of ghosts on the web.
		But these recent ones, we've been saving for you.
		Keith has been sort of compiling them.
		And by the way, if you have a really good ghost photograph, you can send it to webmaster at artbell.com.
		That's webmaster at artbell.com.
		Even tonight, we'll get it on if it's a really, really good one.
		So if you want to send one in, you're able to.
		Those who have done so in the last month or so are up there now, and a couple of them are really, really evil.
		Good morning on the wildcard line.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Mr. R. Bill, sir.
		Yes.
		My name is Josh.
		I'm in Seattle, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Seattle.
unidentified		And the Brown City.
		What I'm going to ask is, did I feel the earthquake?
		Yep, and I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Obviously, where were you?
unidentified		I was actually walking.
		I live up on the hill near White Center.
		I was walking down the hill towards my bus stop, and I can see all of Seattle from there.
		And it was kind of waving one way, and I was waving the other way.
		It was very disorientating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		But yeah, so it was pretty weird.
		Yeah, I actually do have a lot of better ghost stories than this one, but I want to tell this one because I actually caught a voice on tape.
		Oh.
		And I'd like to try to play that for you if I can.
		Oh?
		Yeah.
		This was over a year ago on the Halloween before last.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		It wasn't on the Halloween, but it was near it.
unidentified		I was working at a Halloween store, and I had a friend, a couple friends actually, they were telling me about weird stuff they saw around their apartment in Seattle near SeaTac area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And so I had heard on your show, actually, from the GIS, Ghost Investigators Society, yes.
unidentified		About taking a tape recorder and trying that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and you did?
unidentified		Yeah, I actually thought, you know, maybe I'll try that.
		So I went and bought a brand new tape recorder from Radio Shack.
		Right.
		It's exactly the one I'm holding right now.
		And we went there, and the first question we asked was the one that I guess they suggested you should ask first, is anybody here kind of question.
		Right.
		And I'm sorry, I'm a little shaky right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, that's all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just realize.
unidentified		It's actually a pretty weird thing you're going to hear.
unidentified		If you can actually hear it, I'll try.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now before you play it, tell me what it's going to say.
unidentified		I have no idea.
		It does not sound like English.
		It sounds like Arabian or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now let's qualify.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A brand new tape recorder, and I hope a brand new tape.
unidentified		Yes, a very brand new tape bought at Radio Shack as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, all right, good enough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you asked if anybody was there, and what we're about to hear is what came back to you.
unidentified		Yeah, I got to let you know, though, at first when we first played it back, it just sounded kind of like a background whispering.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		But I also knew some people who had equipment to amplify it and take out the noise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, of course.
unidentified		Yep.
unidentified		Right, and so it sounds kind of wavy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's right.
		Go ahead.
		Let's hear it.
unidentified		Okay, but it's going to play it twice now, and this is exactly what we heard to the first question, and then we got no responses to any other questions after this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Okay, here it goes.
		Anybody in here?
		Wow.
		Anybody in here?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man.
unidentified		Okay, now did you hear that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, I heard that too.
unidentified		Okay, isn't that amazing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
unidentified		It did go out of my hands for a couple minutes, but as far as I can tell, this is totally genuine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, yes, but before you had it analyzed for noise or to try to filter out the noise, which is a common thing to do in audio, you obviously heard something on the tape or you would not have given it to somebody to analyze.
unidentified		Yeah, it just sounded kind of a whisper, kind of like kind of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've gotcha.
unidentified		But it didn't answer anything like that after any of our other questions, like what is your name or anything like that.
		And I actually ended up living at this place a little while later because I needed some roommates.
		And I did actually witness some dishes flying off of a kitchen counter when we were talking something about tarot cards and I said something about they're not evil and then these dishes went flying off the counter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do me a favor.
		Next time you're in the house, instead of asking is there anybody here, try this question.
		Want to take a ride?
unidentified		Oh boy.
		Yeah.
		I just might.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and good luck to you and thank you very much for the story and the tape too.
		Oh my goodness.
		Now, the young man had a tape recorder and a blank tape and caught that.
		Now you tell me what was that?
unidentified		Hmm?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did we hear?
		I think we heard something from the other side.
		I think we heard something from an entity.
		Could we understand it?
		No.
		But the way it sounded, I'm not sure we would want to understand it.
		And I was kind of joking about asking anything further because if I got that kind of answer, I know the GIS folks do this kind of thing every day.
		But there's no way in the world that I would have proceeded past getting that answer.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
		Mark.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		How are you doing, Bob from Philadelphia?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
unidentified		Hi, Bob.
		Okay.
		This is not a real long story, but it's a little complicated.
		My father was a dentist.
		He purchased a house to put his practice in back in the early 1940s.
		I was born in 1941.
		As a child, I went to the house while it was being renovated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And on the second floor, it's a three-story building.
		On the second floor, I felt really freezing cold.
		Unusually cold, considering the rest of the building wasn't chilly in any way.
		And I felt that I was being watched.
		Well, my father said, no, you're just being silly, so forth and so on.
		I didn't start to actually live in the building until the 1960s.
		And I was brought up to be one of these people who did not, in fact, believe in any such thing as paranormal, ghosts, any of that kind of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand, yes.
unidentified		And the deal was that I purchased the house in 1970.
		I got married, and my wife and I lived in this house.
		Anyway, my wife had said to me, you know, you're talking to yourself.
		Why are you talking to yourself?
		And I said, oh, I said, that's not me.
		She said, well, why, you know, isn't it you?
		Who's doing the talking if it's not you?
		There's only two of us here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And I said, well, I said, you know, turn on the water.
		I happened to be in the bathroom at the time.
		It's a pretty good size room.
		I said, turn on the water in the sink.
		And she turned it on.
		I said, can you hear these voices better?
		Yeah.
		I said, turn on the tub.
		And then there was an electric space heater in there.
		Anyway, we turned everything on.
		And the louder the background noise became, the louder the voices became until she was able to recognize that it was a man and a woman arguing.
		So at any rate, we had had problems with items that were missing or moved, like photos, magazines, tools.
		And I decided, since I was a commercial photographer, that what I would do is that I would try and see if there was any way to take a picture of whatever this was.
		I had purchased, you know what Heath Kit is, right, or was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I built more Heath Kits than I can tell you.
unidentified		Yes, well, I have a closet full of those mine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was an electronics manufacturer, folks, of old ham gear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, they did audio, even television in Benton Harbor, Michigan, I believe, right?
unidentified		That's right, that's exactly right.
		I built a little GR-104, you know, portable TV, and built radios.
		Anyway, one of the things that I had done is I had purchased a bunch of kits that all had to do with security.
		There was ultrasonic detectors, you know, with transducers.
		There were all kinds.
		There was a base unit, a phone dialer, a whole bunch of this stuff.
		And when we turned it on for the first time, of course, basically my wife thought that it was something I had done that was wrong, but it wouldn't be on very long, especially at night, until, of course, the alarm went off.
		And it came down to the point where we shut the units off until we found out which one of the ones was going off the most.
		And I, of course, replaced it, and we had the same problem.
		And I did it two or three times.
		So I said, you know, I'll bet you that whatever it is that's been, you know, causing these noises and problems, again, second floor, three-floor building, it was right there on the second floor.
		The one that faced the lengthway down the hall was the one that kept going off.
		So I said, you know, if we can detect it, we can photograph it because we'll be able to use something like aeroectochrome or whatever and, you know, strobe lights.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, that makes all the sense in the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got a way of identifying roughly where it is.
unidentified		Oh, the exact distance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can set up and catch it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've got you.
unidentified		And I mean, at one point, I mean, I had even bought a kit from Polaroids, you know, the Polaroid ultrasonics for distance measurement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And at any rate, I wanted to set up a test.
		I wanted to see if what time of day was best.
		And, you know, so I set this unit up.
		I took it down.
		It was above the door, mounted to the door frame.
		I took it down and I put it on top of one of the drawing table benches that I had, which is about three foot tall.
		Just to make sure, I put some plywood through the rungs, and I put some encyclopedia on top of that.
		And I put the wire down through the door into the rear room.
		The hall runs east and west.
		There was a rear steps coming off just behind where this was.
		It went north-south.
		And the front stairway, again, ran east and west and met the hall in the middle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you were setting up an entity photographic trap.
unidentified		Yes, exactly what I was doing.
		I didn't know whether I'd have to back light this, front light this, but I just wanted to know.
		So anyway, I waited until my wife had gone out.
		We had a couple of cats.
		I put them in the bedroom on the third floor and locked them in.
		Well, they were five minutes and they were sound asleep.
		I turned the central processor on, which would detect a signal from the ultrasonic on the second floor.
		And I decided I better not move around the house, so I stayed in the third floor kitchen.
		It wasn't more than five minutes than the alarm went off.
		Well, it was awfully loud.
		And so I thought, well, you know, I better, you know, the cats are going to, you know, die of this noise.
		I walked in into the bedroom.
		I turned the central processor off, so the alarm stopped.
		And then that's when I heard the crash.
		There was crashing and banging, scared the life out of me.
		I thought maybe, you know, it wasn't picking up, in fact, an entity.
		It was picking up a burglar.
		And so I went downstairs, you know, armed to the teeth with the kitchen knife is all I had.
		And there's all my gear down the bottom of the steps.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All your gear?
unidentified		Yes, everything.
		The ultrasonics at the bottom, the stools at the bottom, and the wire, interestingly enough, this had a very short AC cord.
		It actually put the signals back through the AC lines in the house so that it didn't require any additional wiring of the building.
		The deal was that all of this was down the bottom of the rear steps.
		There were dents in the side of the walls on the steps, in the ceiling above the steps where it had bounced and bounced and bounced on the way down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It looked like somebody threw it down.
unidentified		That's exactly what had happened.
unidentified		That was when I decided that probably I shouldn't risk a Nikon or a Hasselblad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess not.
unidentified		Yeah, actually what it was was more my wife's decision not to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you get any photographs?
unidentified		No, I was sort of thwarted in that regard by Linda saying, you know, I don't think you should risk the photographic equipment because if they could do that, they could do anything else because this was a physical photograph.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you said that going back to the water and the fact that you could hear some people arguing.
unidentified		They were arguing over a child who apparently was sick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so you had a battling couple, apparently, a man and a woman?
unidentified		Yes, it was a man and a woman, and we also had something else which apparently the cats could see, but we could not.
unidentified		Sometime later, just before we decided to make an end of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know the history of the house?
unidentified		The house was built in the early 1900s, around 1910 or 1911.
		And before my father purchased it, no, I had not checked that out.
		I still have not checked that out to see who owned it.
		But it could have been something to do with the influenza epidemic in the 20s.
		A child maybe died of it.
		And it all had to do with the second floor middle room and the hall adjacent to that.
		And the cats that we had, and I remember you saying not too long ago that you had experience with cats seeing things that you didn't see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, quite all the time, sure.
unidentified		And when I had come back again once from doing something where I didn't want the cats to be involved, if I was painting anything, I used to put them in the bedroom.
		I came, I heard one of them talking, and I thought, oh, well, they're awake, you know.
		I'll let them out.
		And when I went in, one was sitting on a chair, one was on the floor, the other was on the bed, and they were looking.
		This room basically has a bay window that faces west and faces our yard, actually, on the third floor.
		And they were all talking.
		I tried talking to them.
		They didn't pay any attention.
		So I turned one around physically.
		Now, of course, they never bit us and they never scratched us.
		So they just simply tried to regain their original position with respect to that corner of the room.
		They were looking just below the ceiling, which is very high, probably about eight feet off the floor is where they were looking.
		And I couldn't see anything.
		So I went over and I opened up of the three windows.
		This would be the window left.
		I opened the shades on the window right.
		I opened the curtains.
		And out of the corner of my eye, not my central vision, but my peripheral vision, I could see a darkness.
		And it looked sort of like what you would expect a gingerbread man to look like.
		That is to say, no definite limbs, but yes, there were what looked like legs, arms, and a head and a torso, but no real definition.
		No, you could not see, you know, a finger, fingernail.
		You could not see...
		And here's this thing, and I cannot hear it.
		I cannot see it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, listen, we're way out of time here.
unidentified		I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
		No, that's all right.
		I appreciate the story, and I hope all is well with you now.
		That's some tips.
unidentified		Yes, we had that taken care of.
unidentified		We basically prayed it out of here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, my friend.
unidentified		You have a nice night.
unidentified		You too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		I can feel I'm back in a satin dress.
		In a room where you do what you don't confess.
		Someone you better take care.
		But I human creeping around my backstairs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are those who say the veil between that side and this side is breaking down.
		I would tend to agree with those people.
		As you listen to the stories tonight, the contemporary stories, the ones that have literally happened in the last few days, in the last year or so, the frequency of these stories, the intensity of these stories, to me, kind of says, something is changing.
		Has that occurred to any of you out there?
		Something is changing.
		Maybe the veil between here and there is beginning to slip away or change.
		I really don't know.
		I just listen.
		Remember, I'm doing this show tonight with a temperature of 100 and a half.
		So the flu is still with me, and it may have my thinking off-kilter a little bit, and I may say things I ought not say, but is it not said that in the last days, the final days, the dead will rise?
		Is it not possible that in the days leading up to the end, the veil, and I call it that just because that's all I can think to call it, will begin to collapse.
		And I'm not suggesting these are the final days, but I guess I am suggesting there's a lot going on right now with regard to entities, ghosts, whatever you want to call them.
		An awful lot beginning to happen.
		You've got to wonder if it might not be the warm-up.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello.
		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello.
unidentified		Oh, hi, I'm sorry.
unidentified		This is Melissa from Van Huys, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Melissa.
unidentified		I have a little ghost story, I guess, to tell you.
		I went to a friend of a friend's home in December for a little arts and crafts meeting with about five women.
		I've never been to the house.
		I pull up, and it's a beautiful, very large house built in the early 20s.
		I walk in, and it's kind of got an interesting feeling about it, just as old houses do, but I don't think anything about that.
		All of the other women go to the library to sit, and I go to the kitchen to get a drink.
		And the kitchen is in three parts, kind of a U-shape.
		You have to go through the pantry, the kitchen, and to another third room to the refrigerator.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
unidentified		I get a drink, and as I'm walking back, I walk to a game room that has basically the only thing in it is a pool table.
		And as I'm walking past the pool table, a multicolored ball rolls past my feet really quickly.
		And it's like a baseball-sized rubber ball, like a kid's ball.
		And when I had walked in the door, I'd noticed that the family had two cats.
		And I, of course, think it's one of the cats batting the ball at me.
		So I look to the corner to see which little kitty had batted the ball, and the cats aren't there.
		And immediately what flashes through my mind is, okay, the ball went really fast.
		The floor's not uneven.
		Something else did it, and I don't know what.
		So I look to the library, which is about 500 feet away, and there are glass French doors where all the other women are, to see if there's something going on.
		And the two cats are in there.
		So the cats could not have batted the ball.
		And like I said, it was really fast.
		It rolled right past my feet and then stopped.
		I kind of get the hair on my arm stands up.
		I walk to this stranger's library and say, excuse me, to the lady who owns the house, you don't have ghosts, do you?
		Ha ha ha.
		And she said, the smile falls from her face and she said, what did they do now?
		And I'm like, oh, so this has happened before.
		And she said, what did they do?
		And I said, well, a large ball rolled in front of my feet really quickly and stopped.
		And she said, yeah, well, they're kind of pranksters.
		And then she goes on to explain that her daughter, they had only lived in the house a few years.
		Her daughter had had some sort of incident in the basement where the ghost had tripped her and she'd sprained her ankle.
		And she'd finally gone into the history of the house because she didn't know what was going on.
		And it turns out they're the third family to own the house.
		The house was built in 1927.
		The original owners of the house had a very hard life, very hard time, lost a daughter to a very difficult circumstance.
		And the woman, who they feel is the person occupying the house still, was very sad.
		And so she started to tell me a little bit about her.
		And she said her name was Mary Wells Brown.
		And she said, oh, I have a picture of her.
		And I said, oh, I'd love to see it, which I think is probably going to be a small snapshot.
		She said, I found a picture of her in the attic, and I've decided to honor her.
		I had this picture of her, so she doesn't feel like I'm occupying her house and not honoring her.
		And I said, I'd love to see it.
		She touches a panel on the parquet wall, and the wall moves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
		Revealing a hidden back room that is basically a shrine to this woman.
		There's a sepia-toned picture on the wall that's probably two by three feet with a carved wood frame hanging really far up above a fireplace.
		And I try to walk in the room and I can't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean you can't?
unidentified		It's very cold to begin with.
		Which it was December, so it could have been, except that this is California.
		But anyway, the room was amazingly cold.
		I put one foot in to get closer to the picture of the woman, and I feel like I'm trapped in molasses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good lord.
unidentified		And I'm like, I can't move.
		And the woman goes, you know what?
		That happens.
		I understand.
		So I literally back out of the room.
		I can't even, I'm not even in control of myself enough to turn around and move.
		I can only back my foot out of the room to get back into the library again because I can't go in that room.
		I have never had an experience like that.
		I couldn't explain it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Before this occurred to you, had you ever had an experience like this?
unidentified		Never.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Had you been a believer in ghosts or spirits or life after death?
		Are you religious?
		What's your background?
unidentified		Well, I am religious.
		I have a spirituality.
		Yes, I was raised Southern Baptist.
		I'm from Kentucky.
		Originally, I've lived in Los Angeles for eight years.
		But I wanted to believe, sure.
		I mean, my mother passed away nine years ago, and I'm an only child.
		And before she died, I was like, all right, look, you really have to come back.
		I really, death is not going to separate us.
		And I have not heard from her, so I'm a little pissed.
		But I'd wanted to believe, definitely.
		I've never had an experience like that in my life.
		Never.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're sure of what happened to you.
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, obviously, the woman in this house had encountered this whatever ghost so many times, she decided to build this shrine.
unidentified		Well, when I say shrine, I suppose I'm being overly dramatic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, look, if you push a button and the wall changes and a picture comes out, that's a kind of a shrine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She had to go to a lot of trouble to do that.
unidentified		No, I think the wall, that sort of secret Room was always there.
		I think she made that Mary Wells Brown's secret room.
		I mean, she hung the picture there, you know, as it's like, all right, I'm giving her her own space so that she doesn't get honked off that we're here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's going a pretty long way, isn't it?
unidentified		Maybe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my, my, my.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I really thank you for the story.
unidentified		Thank you, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you take care.
		To the point that she physically could not enter the room.
		It would be sure fun to get the story from the lady who showed her the secret passageway, the secret room with the portrait of the woman.
		First time caller line, you're on the air on Ghost2Ghost AM.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there.
unidentified		How are you doing?
unidentified		I'm calling from Akron, Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Akron, yes, sir.
unidentified		I got a story about a...
		And on this campus of the school, they have what they call an armory.
		I'm sure you know what an armory is.
		You were in the military, am I correct?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course I know.
unidentified		At night, the kids were at the school would say that this armory was haunted.
		And I never believed it.
		And they used to roller skate inside this armory all the time in the early 50s and 60s.
		And I went there between 84 and 87.
		And one night I was walking up to, we have our hospital on campus.
		And going past this armory, you could hear roller skating in this armory at night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Roller skating in an armory.
unidentified		And to find out back in 1974, they put all the people from the town of Xenia when they had a tornado, they had an F5 tornado.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they put them in the armory.
unidentified		Right.
		And none of the kids would go near this armory at night because it was spooked.
		They said it was haunted.
		And I've heard it from different people from the 50s, the 60s, and the 70s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was the armory hit by the tornado?
unidentified		No.
		No.
		They just think this armory is haunted.
		People.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but obviously it was haunted by the children.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The only time there would have been children there was, as you suggested, when they were there as a shelter.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that brings up the specter of hauntings by the living or the fact that some living person was there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This might not be a person who's yet passed away, and yet the echo of those people remains.
unidentified		It's kind of weird.
unidentified		And you could plainly hear it sounds just like someone roller skating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I've got you.
		No, I understand.
		Thank you very much.
		Thank you very much.
		That's the other thing that I think I wanted to really bring up tonight, and that is lately we've been hearing stories apparent hauntings from people who are still alive.
		Now, what does that say?
		Does that say that our spirits are one in life and in death, and that we're capable of having that spirit remain in a certain place, doing a certain thing, even though we still live as when we die?
		I don't know.
		It's fascinating.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, sir.
		Yes.
		Yes, how are you doing tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Yeah, this is Dean in Tampa, Florida.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Dean.
unidentified		Yeah, the last time we spoke, actually, for Ghost to Ghost, I had mentioned a story about a young lady named Clarity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I remember the Clarity story, yes.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I don't know if you want me to update the newer listeners or it was quite a story, but I actually had an experience last year after telling that story that kind of connects the two.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know whether you ought to, if there's a way you can rush through the Clarity story.
unidentified		Oh, trust me, I'll make it brief, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, go.
unidentified		Basically, about 14 years ago, I moved down to Grapevine, Texas.
		I went to a party with a friend of mine.
		I met a very nice young lady by the name of Clarity.
		I'd always taken the same route back home to Grapevine, but for some reason that night, when I took her home, who supposedly she lived pretty close to where I lived in Grapevine, I wound up getting lost and wound up driving actually north to Oklahoma.
		So on the way there, we kind of took a right turn and wound up in Denton, Texas that night, and she suddenly told me that she used to live there, and she told me she kind of directed me around inside Denton, Texas, and we wound up in an apartment building.
		And she said she had some friends there, so I thought we were going to get a telephone or something like that, trying to find some directions home.
		Well, suddenly we get out of the car, and there's a big hill on the left-hand side there.
		And she goes, let's go over the hill.
		I want to show you something.
		And I said, okay, I'm kind of curious.
		It's about 3 a.m. in the morning.
		You know, really pretty girls, so I'm pretty much up for anything right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're thinking, I'm going to get lucky.
unidentified		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
unidentified		Yeah, it was Trix with Lights and Shadows, so I figured, no problem.
		So we went over the hill, and suddenly I'm looking at a graveyard.
		And I've never been one to be doing the graveyard for fun type thing, but I'm kind of up for anything at this point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're thinking she's really a fox.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's see what happens.
unidentified		Exactly.
		At this point, I'm pretty much fighting my truck over, so I'm like, no problem.
		So we're walking in, and there's a really huge stone gate, and on the right-hand side, it almost looked like it had been hit by a tornado or something like that, but it was just demolished.
		Well, I didn't really say much about it because she kind of wandered in, and we were looking around, and suddenly I'm standing there, and it gets into an extremely dead still Texas night, and there's a full moon out, and I love full moons.
		And I'm looking up at the full moon, and she's standing behind me, and suddenly to the left of me, I see seven white birds, and they're all connected by the wing, and they're just floating up towards the moon.
		And I'm like, really, I'm watching this second.
		This is totally beautiful.
		I'm just, you know, I'm in awe.
		And suddenly from behind me, she starts speaking about Bible prophecy and about the seven birds that will return her home.
		And as I'm looking up at the moon, and I'm looking at the birds, and I'm listening to her talk about the prophecy of the seven birds and the returning home, as the word home trails off, sir, I look around And suddenly she's gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to say, probably at that point, you were thinking, not so lucky.
unidentified		No, definitely.
		Sobriety had now entered me 100%.
		I'm fully clad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She began looking at this moment again.
		She began talking as the seven birds were flying.
		It was beautiful, full moon.
		She started talking about Bible prophecy.
		Right.
		And the next second.
unidentified		As the word home, as she's saying return home, trails off, I look around and I turn exactly to where she was standing.
		She is completely gone.
		I do a hard-target search of the place because I'm still a gentleman.
		I'm not going to fail on her.
		But yet I'm looking hard.
		I'm looking low, and I'm thinking, well, maybe she just went, you know, returned home or maybe went to a friend's house.
		Well, as I find out later, she truly did return home.
		Because about two years later, I come back to the same place in Denton, Texas, and I go up to a Texaco just right down the corner.
		And I'm talking to the guy at the counter, and I'm saying, you know, boy, I had kind of a strange experience back then.
		And he goes to relate the story about this girl who, I guess, a couple of her friends got into their dad's pickup truck, drove over the hill, wound up crashing into that very stone gate that I saw earlier before that was destroyed, and wound up getting killed on our prom night.
		And I'm thinking to myself, truly she had returned home.
		Well, here's the kicker art.
		I told you this story about a year ago at the same time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		Well, there was a tremendous Texas storm at this time.
		I'm in Grapevine, Texas.
		I put the phone down.
		The moment, sir, I put the phone down.
		I look up.
		Across the street, I have a clear view of a transformer.
		A bolt of lightning hits the transformer, blows the transformer, and goes.
		It looked like the movie The Natural.
		Suddenly, boom, the lights go out.
		As I lay down the phone, I look across, and all you see is the moon.
		The moonlight goes inside the window.
		I look up and I see five people standing inside my room.
		But yet it looks like three women and two small children.
		They're not there, but they're there.
		And it's like one of those adages.
		I've always felt that we're all surrounded by several different people in some sense, either from our past or present.
		And at that point, when I put that phone down, the bolt of lightning, the moonlight, boom, I look up and I wasn't shocked.
		It seemed like I almost accepted the fact that I'm an only child, but I never felt alone all my life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now that all this has happened, obviously you're a believer in what?
unidentified		Well, all my life, sir, I believe we've all been connected by one way or another.
		And I think what it goes to show you is that we're just not here to be put in a box and put away.
		I think we connect from our past and our present.
		And if we truly do connect, I think we'll definitely get more clarity for the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Clarity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate the call, sir.
unidentified		Thank you, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		I agree with that, man.
		Don't you?
		Are we all here just to trot around in this mindless maze that's life on earth and then get put in a box or get reduced to ashes?
		And that's all there is?
		I don't think so.
		I think the stories that you're hearing prove it.
		Not singly, not any one of them.
		But the evidence is absolutely cumulative.
		We are not just biological entities.
		We are more than that.
		And that's what you're hearing.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Good morning, Arch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Tulsa, Oklahoma.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tulsa?
unidentified		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Glad to have you.
unidentified		Yeah, glad to be here.
		Hope you and your wife feel better.
		Thank you.
		My job takes me around the country, all over the country.
		My wife and I have lived here in Tulsa for the last year.
		My immediate family lives in Montana, my mom, my brother and sister, nieces and nephews.
		For two weeks in November, I was in Oklahoma City.
		It was the day after the election.
		I stayed up all night watching the election returns.
		So the next night I was tired, so I go to bed early, about 8.30.
		About four hours later, I'm awakened by someone in my hotel room.
		The room is completely black.
		I know there's a female figure in the room next to my bed.
		It's walking or by my bed.
		I know the presence is there.
		As I'm trying to figure out why that person is in there, I was thinking maybe it was the maid or something.
		Maybe I had been dreaming or waking up early and the maid was in the room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It wasn't Al Gore saying, Florida's mine, Florida's mine, right?
unidentified		I don't think it was.
		It didn't appear that way.
		But as I'm trying to, as I see this figure, I turn around and look and this face appears toward me, comes toward me.
		It's a female face.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A face.
unidentified		It comes toward me, doesn't say anything, or at least I'm not hearing anything.
unidentified		And it comes toward me and then fades back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you make out any detail?
unidentified		Well, not at that time, but I relate the story to the guys I work with the next day.
		And I'm saying, well, maybe it was my sister.
		Or I thought, well, maybe the room's haunted or something.
		Or maybe it was the maid or something.
		Or I was dreaming or something.
		Anyway, that was Thursday.
		That was late.
		That was late Wednesday night.
		The next day I relate the story.
		Friday morning, I get a call from my wife saying, I have some bad news that my niece has died.
		She committed suicide.
		Well, I find out, and I didn't connect it at the time, but I'm thinking, and I tell the guys this, well, maybe that was my niece that came to the room.
		So I go back to Montana for the funeral.
		I'm the one of the last persons to view my niece before the funeral, and it was that face that I saw.
		I didn't recognize it at first.
		I thought maybe it was my sister, but then as I see my niece at the viewing, it was her face, and that's what I saw.
		She had come to the room when I was in Oklahoma City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you had quite an encounter, didn't you?
unidentified		It was, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, my friend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		As I said, all of this is cumulative.
		But if you listen through the night and you don't believe when it's over, then you just haven't been listening or thinking.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast A.M. As you look at the car,
		And you follow through yourself of which direction completely disappear.
		By the blue cloud walls near the market stalls, with the hidden door she leads you to.
		These days, as I feel my life, just like a river running through.
		The year of the camp.
		Wanna take a ride?
		Call our Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
		Mobile card line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		And to call Art on the Toll-Free International Line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nod.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, this is Ghost to Ghost AM.
		And we may be talking about more than just ghosts tonight.
		We'll continue with your stories in a moment.
		It's going to be quite a night, I absolutely guarantee.
		It already has been.
		By the way, next hour we're going to be concentrating on evil entities or ghosts.
		Whatever it is you want to call them, the negative side.
unidentified		The negative side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, the really scary stories, the ones with the glowing red eyes, the ones that are up to no good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder how many of those are out there right now, and I wonder what that means.
unidentified		A long time, and they wanted someone who would appreciate the home.
		And so my daughter got it, and they'd been in it about five months, and I went out to visit.
		And I hadn't been in the house five minutes.
		My daughter was helping me bring my suitcases up to the bedroom that they decided to put me in.
		And I walked into the bedroom, and I got the hair standing up on the back of the neck, et cetera.
		And I turned to her, and I said, I hate to tell you this, but there's somebody in this room.
		And she just went, oh, mom.
		She said, you know, she said, she told her husband when they had moved in there, they started.
		I finally, I got the story then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, you can feel it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you said the hair on the back of your neck stood up.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You absolutely can feel it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've had that happen to me, and you're never wrong.
unidentified		No, I know.
		I know it.
		I know it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If the hair on the back of your neck stands up, something's happening big time.
unidentified		There's somebody there.
		So anyway, so she tells me what's been happening in the five months.
		They had not told anyone this.
		And since they had moved in, especially in the evening after they'd put their young daughter to bed, they would hear somebody walking in the upstairs hall.
		And originally, of course, they would think that their daughter had gotten up and was walking around.
		And so they'd holler up the stairs like good parents.
		And then somebody would go up to put her back to bed, and she'd be sound asleep.
		And they would have doors opening, particularly in that upstairs hall, and things like that going on.
		And so they wondered.
		And she knew, because I sense these things, she knew that I'd know if there was somebody actually in the house.
		And so I stayed in that room.
		Of course, they put me in the room that they thought she belonged in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You stayed there, huh?
unidentified		I stayed in that room, and I was there for about three weeks, and it was okay.
		When I encounter something like this, I talked to them, and I didn't have any problems.
		Well, after about three weeks, my guy flew out and joined us.
		And the first night that he spent in the room, I woke up in the middle of the night, and she was right in his face.
		She was leaning over the bed and within inches of his face.
		Now, I normally do not see them.
		I usually just feel them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could you clearly see this entity?
unidentified		No, not clearly.
unidentified		But it was like, you know, when you just, it's like out of the corner of your eye, but, you know, when you just wake up, sometimes you can see what you don't see when you're fully conscious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course, yes.
unidentified		And I could see this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, obviously, then you had made your peace with this entity.
unidentified		Oh, she wasn't that bothered.
		She wasn't bothered by me.
		You know, I mean, she wasn't really bothered by them in the house.
		She just did her thing.
		She wandered around and opened doors and things like that.
		My granddaughter had been sleeping in that room just before I came.
		My daughter said, oh, well, we're moving her out.
		You can stay in that room.
		Well, they were moving her out because she'd wake up screaming in the middle of the night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But go back to this moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, here is this entity leaning over right there.
unidentified		Leaning over him, and I woke up, I sensed this, saw this, and got first very scared, and then, which I don't think of myself as a very possessive person, but I got angry.
		It was like, this is my guy.
		Get out of here.
		I really got angry, and I...
		Yeah, and it was like, well, I didn't know what she would do.
		I knew, for some reason, I knew very quickly upon going to the house that it was a woman.
		And she liked doors open.
		She liked the room neat.
		Stuff like that.
		I just had a sense about it.
		But I didn't realize she was not happy with him being there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's messy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's rip that.
unidentified		She didn't want him in the room.
		She didn't want him there.
		And I didn't know what she would do.
		So I got angry and essentially just said, you know, back off.
		So I just told her.
		I said, I calmed down.
		I started talking to her and said, look, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guy.
unidentified		Yeah, my guy.
		Leave him alone.
		We're only here for a short visit.
		We'll be gone soon.
		If you back off and leave us alone, I will leave the door open.
		I will keep the room neat, etc.
		The little things that she liked.
		And if not, you will have me to deal with.
		Not that I knew what I would do.
		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tough lady.
unidentified		But I was angry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I appreciate the story.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Anyway, we found out later who it actually was a woman, the last of the family that owns the house, had died in the house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, listen, if something like this happened, I'd like to have somebody like you around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Get the hell out of here.
unidentified		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
		Hello there.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you're on the air, sir.
unidentified		Oh, this is Mark from Richmond, Virginia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Mark.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I hope I can be as eloquent as your other speakers.
		It's kind of weird.
		Synchronicity, I guess.
		I'm a little bit early here.
		What about six minutes early?
		You're talking about red-eyed monster stories you'd like to hear it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not monsters.
		I mean, you could think of them that way.
		What I said was, in the next hour, I wanted to get stories from people who saw what obviously is an evil entity.
		And to me, the scariest description of evil are these glowing red eyes that so many people have seen.
unidentified		What happened to me, I was sleeping in a twin bed by myself, and I thought I was in a dream state, a lucid dream.
		I mean, because I could picture the bed and picture the wall.
		Everything was as it was.
		And I noticed at the foot of the bed a figure.
		And the only way I could make out that it was a figure, the room was dark here.
		I mean, you know, no night lights or anything, but, and I've heard you mention this before, but honest to goodness, this is truth.
		The only reason I could make it out because it was blacker than black, than the room itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
unidentified		And it had, I really couldn't make out any features initially because it had like a loose-fitting dark black shroud around it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		You know, if you've seen a commercial flight to Grim Mariepa or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Sort of like that.
		And I thought I was dreaming.
		I'm still not sure exactly what was going on.
		And so I said, well, I'll just have this dream and take it on by myself, you know, and fight this entity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And kind of going one-on-one there for a minute.
unidentified		And all of a sudden, I had the sensation of being levitated, lifted off the bed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you, in fact, lifted off the bed?
		What happened, or I'll tell you what, this is just a great cliffhanger.
		We're coming to a break, so I'm going to have you hold it right there, okay?
		Sure.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An entity darker than dark is in your room.
		You're levitated.
		You're off the bed.
		We'll get back to the story in a moment.
unidentified		We'll get back to the story in a moment.
		Um...
		She doesn't remember me.
		Oh, what else?
		Anyway.
		But then I finally, I mean, I wasn't planning on interviewing someone that night.
		I finally said, are you the one that dropped the water on me?
		And the answer was yes.
		One of the things was that he said that he was trying to get to the other side and needed help.
		It came out that he and I had come from the East Coast in another life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so the tears then were a kind of a plea to help plead for help to get to the other side, right?
unidentified		To get me to go to that meeting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To get you to go to the meeting.
		Right, right.
		But the ultimate plea, though, was to help that entity go through.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I think I've got it.
		Thank you.
		Tears.
		From nowhere.
		That entity wanted help to get to the other side.
		Which means that entities are trapped here, obviously, then, for a period of time ranging from, no doubt, almost a non-existent amount of time to forever.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		This is Elizabeth in Medford.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Elizabeth.
unidentified		Hello.
		You'll have to pardon me.
		I'm starting to get the flu, too, so if I sound funny, that's why.
		I have a story about a, I guess you'd have to say malevolent spirit that caused people to get physically and go emotionally ill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean permanently, emotionally?
unidentified		Well, until they left the house.
		But the people who were living in the house, we moved into it when I was about, gosh, I was about eight or nine years old and 81.
		And it was in Newcastle, Indiana on what we figured out was Indian burial grounds.
		They had built attractive houses that were perfectly lined up step down, step down, step down.
		And we didn't think anything of it at first, but my mom's boyfriend, over the course of living there, started to act really weird.
		Well, we didn't think much about it because, you know, sometimes that happens.
		But our next door neighbor was what proved it out.
		They had, it was a nice little young family, a husband and a wife and a little boy.
		Well, as soon as they moved in next door, they started having weird things happening.
		Toilets flushing by themselves, cats tracking things across the room that nobody else could see, cold hands on people's Shoulders, just weird stuff, but nothing you could put your finger on, really.
		And then their little boy got sick with something that couldn't get diagnosed.
		At first, they thought he had anything from leukemia to cat scratch fever.
		It was something to do with his immune system, but he was getting sicker and sicker by the day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
unidentified		Didn't know what was wrong with him.
		And on top of that, their marriage was completely disintegrating.
		Well, you could chalk that up to just having a bad marriage.
		But they moved out.
		They said, you know, their marriage broke up.
		They left.
		Well, that, you know, you could have just left that as a coincidence.
		Well, the next people that moved in, a wife, a husband, a little boy, same thing happened.
		As soon as they moved in, the little boy started to get ill.
		And the husband and the wife started fighting.
		Well, she was a bit more open-minded, and we had talked to her.
		My mom was open to ghost stories and things like that, and had told her about the previous couple.
		Well, she said, there's this room that every time I go into it, I want to just about kill my husband.
		If I go in there, I feel like if we're even sitting in there having a good time, I want to just beat him up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rage.
unidentified		Rage.
		And so she ended up being a good friend of my mom's, and she let my sisters use the house for their prom date after the prom because the high school was right across the way.
		It was a four-way stop.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		And they ended up in the TV room, which was the room where the arguments happened.
		Well, they had no knowledge about this because my mom didn't tell them.
		She didn't want to scare them.
		And their prom date went from being a happy, you know, regular boy-girl thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The way it ought to be.
unidentified		Yeah.
		To just complete hatred among all the couples.
		All the men and women ended up fighting.
		Didn't tell each other about it until later.
		This all came out later on.
		But this room was the focus of the rage.
		And the nearest that we could figure out was because it was all focused on men, the women felt angry, but the men were the ones that seemed to suffer from it.
		I mean, they went from being normal, happy-go-lucky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It happens that way so frequently.
unidentified		Yeah, you know, normal, happy, lucky guys.
		But then all of a sudden, they just got dark.
		Yes.
		They got dark, and they got depressed and they got sick.
		And the little boys got sicker and sicker and sicker.
		Well, finally, she's like, you know, if this is the precedent set here, I'm leaving.
		I'm not sticking around for this.
		And she left the house.
		Well, her kid got better.
		By then, the marriage was over, but, you know, there was nothing that they could do about it by then.
		Well, every person that has moved into that house since then, she's kept up with it, has had the same problem.
		And the only thing that we could figure out was, is that something must have happened to a woman.
		Because the focus, I lived in the house, my mom lived in the house, my two sisters.
		We never had anything weird happen to us other than some odd, ghostly things, but nothing dark and evil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Something bad happened to some woman.
unidentified		Something bad, and she was angry about it and taken it out on the men living there.
		And when I was a little kid, I wouldn't go to bed in my house by myself in that house.
		I had to have somebody come with me and stay with me until I was asleep.
		The day we moved out of that house, we moved into a Victorian across town, which in and of itself looked like a scary house.
		But I got up when it was time for me to go to bed, walked upstairs, went to bed.
		No questions asked.
		Just did it all by myself.
		And the next day, my mom sat me down and she's like, well, honey, why did you do that?
		You usually have me come and stay up there.
		I said, we lived in a bad house, mom.
		This is a good house.
		This doesn't have anything in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is some story.
		That's really some story.
		I appreciate your call.
unidentified		Well, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Can you imagine that?
		What is that?
		Is that an entity remaining, injecting its hatred into everybody who occupies the room?
		Or again, is it some sort of echo of hatred, memory of hatred, some kind of living memory, whether it's a living person who was there or somebody who's passed away, is that hatred then infecting everybody who occupies the same space?
		So does that mean then that entities or just this raw hatred can occupy a place forevermore or until released?
		I don't know.
		There are so many questions generated by stories like this.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Is that me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's you.
unidentified		Hi, my name's Barbara.
unidentified		I'm calling from Enumqua, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome.
unidentified		When I was 17, my mother died very unexpectedly.
		In fact, she was out of the country, and I received a phone call saying, well, she's dead.
		And I grieved painfully for her, and I grieved for not ever having the chance to say goodbye to her.
		And about six months after she died, I was physically becoming ill.
		I lost a tremendous amount of weight, took a lot of drugs, drank a lot, and was basically self-destructing.
		And I was over at a friend's house in the middle of the afternoon, sitting on their bed, and I looked up and I saw my mother walking towards me down a staircase.
		And she looked radiant.
		She actually looked younger and thinner and healthier than I could recall her ever looking.
		She looked beautiful.
		And I jumped up to run and embrace her.
		And she said, I'm sorry, but this is taking so much of my energy to appear to you that you just, you can't put your arms around me, but you can talk to me.
		So I was telling her how much I missed her, and she said she was aware of that, and that I needed to stop grieving, and she was in a much better place.
		And then she asked me, would I like to come with her?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To that place?
unidentified		To the place where she was now in order to I have to break.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So hold it right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a good place to hold it anyway, all right?
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You went to this place?
unidentified		I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll pick it up right there when we get back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		Very different, separate energies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe.
unidentified		Maybe it was the same and it was just playing tricks on me because, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what they do.
unidentified		And I hadn't been drinking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm with you.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
		It seems to happen to those who drink and snort and smoke as well as those who are stone, cold, sober.
		So make of that what you will.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
		Well, I have a very scary story that I've had a lot of not-so-scary ghost encounters since, but this particular one happened when I was about probably about 16 or 17 years old.
		And I had a friend who was really afraid of, I guess she'd seen The Exorcist or something, and she was horrified at the prospect of ever being possessed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
unidentified		And, you know, she was very rigidly Catholic.
		And I was not really all that paranoid about that.
		And I said, well, you know, I believe in God strongly enough that if Satan ever came after me, I'd know I'd win.
		And I went to bed that night.
		And I used to kind of meditate to go to sleep.
		And so I kind of, you know, meditated to go to sleep.
		I was very into stuff like that.
		And I remember just kind of getting down in a nice, quiet, calm place.
		And I felt suddenly I felt something cold above me.
		Icy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Above you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Above you.
unidentified		Above me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, there are a lot of people, my dear, who say that meditation opens the door.
unidentified		Well, I know that now.
		I didn't really know that then.
		I was only about 16 or 17.
		I'm in my late 30s now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And for some reason, 16 or 17-year-old girls are particularly subject to this sort of thing.
		We don't know why.
		Anyway, something cold above you.
unidentified		Something cold.
		And I think you have a lot of energy then.
		You're very young and fresh.
		And I looked up.
		I opened my eyes.
		Now, I know I wasn't asleep.
		You know, I've thought about this hundreds of times.
		I wasn't asleep.
		There on my ceiling, between myself and my ceiling, which was like a normal eight-foot-high ceiling over my bed, was this green, glowing, green thing.
		It looked like a big amoeba, but it was black in the center.
		And as it got from the center outwards, which was probably the width of my bed or thereabouts, it got tinged with yellow and then green.
		It was like a fluorescent amoeba around the edges.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Starting to sound like something from Ghostbusters.
unidentified		Oh, no.
		This thing was, Ghostbusters was tame.
		I looked at this thing and it looked like it was pulsating.
		And in my head, I heard this voice.
		And it was so metallic.
		It was, we need you, we need you, we need you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We need you.
unidentified		It was so metallic that it sounded like a machine had generated.
unidentified		Like, you know, you pick up the phone and it's the operator and it says to put in the number or whatever, and it's very generated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, oh, yes, of course.
unidentified		And I was so terrified.
		And so I said, oh, God.
		And I tried to pray.
		Does that make sense?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it makes sense to me.
unidentified		I couldn't pray.
		And I felt myself get sucked out, like, out of my head, out of my body.
		And I felt myself go into this black void.
		And I just, I couldn't do anything.
		I thought, oh, my God, where am I going?
		And then I just got, no way.
		I'm not going to let.
		There's no way.
		The thought was just no way.
		And I was back in my room.
		My room was cold.
		I remember I got up.
		My parents were still up in the other room.
		And I walked out and I'm like, oh, you know, I just had this.
		Of course, they didn't believe me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They didn't believe you.
unidentified		Oh, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They didn't hear.
unidentified		We need to.
		No, they didn't.
		No, they didn't.
		But that area has had a lot of activity, of different types of activity.
		You know, we've since then seen things in my dad's house and, you know, different things.
		But it's definitely, I think what I did was I challenged something.
		And in the end, I think I won, but I was scarred for years from that.
		I couldn't meditate for years.
		Come across with us.
		That was sort of like what it was, only it was more metallic.
		Very scary.
		Even more metallic.
		Come with us.
		Yeah, you've got to change the pitch on that there, Art.
		Just kind of make it really metallic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what to say about you.
		That's a scary one.
		All right.
		I appreciate it.
unidentified		Thanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
		Take care.
		First time caller line, you're on the air on Ghost to Ghost AM.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning to you.
unidentified		I have a pretty scary story for you.
		All right.
		I have not spoken of this in 20 years.
		Matter of fact, my friend and I, we haven't spoken of it at all in probably the last 10 years.
		We used to belong to one of the oldest deer hunting clubs here in South Carolina.
		And we were hunting with dogs this particular Saturday.
		Of course, this area is rich in Civil War history.
		Sure.
		Anyway, story short, we had collected our dogs that we were hunting with.
		It was getting pretty late in the evening.
		And we rounded this curve in the road.
		We were back in a very remote area that had only been hunted maybe twice in the last 10 years.
		We had around 18 head of dogs with us.
		These dogs stopped suddenly and doubled back.
		Just startled.
		Just doubled back.
		They stopped.
		They were barking, just jumping around, hair bristled, you know, things pretty much bared.
		Scared the hell out of us, you know.
		And it was misty looking, but what we saw in the edge of the woods was what appeared to be three figures.
		And we kind of looked at each other like, okay, you know, three figures.
		Three figures.
		They appeared to be soldiers, like old Civil War soldiers, Confederate soldiers.
		Really?
		But you could not make out enough details.
		The reason we thought Confederate soldiers is because you could see the hats, the short-rimmed hats.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
unidentified		Okay.
		But what happened?
		We just stood there frozen.
		I don't know about him.
		I was scared to death.
		But we heard just a low voice saying, leave us alone.
		Stay away.
		You're not wanted here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That'll do it for me.
unidentified		And we, well, this gets very freaky.
		This was repeated three, four times.
		We took off in a dead run.
		Our truck was around the other side of the around this long curve.
		It felt like, of course, it felt like we had concrete blocks strapped to our feet.
		But could not get the truck doors open.
		When I got on my side, I could not get it open.
		And we both hit the ground.
		I felt just enormous heat come over me.
		Started vomiting, projectile vomiting, trembling, and still heard the voice saying, you're not wanted here.
		Stay away.
		Leave us alone.
		This went on, I'm guessing, probably 15, 20 minutes.
		So finally, we were able to get up, regain our composure, and get in the truck.
		We left dogs and everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You left the dogs?
unidentified		We left the dogs.
		The dogs have no part of this.
		They were gone.
		And I know this may sound amusing on one hand, but believe me, it was very terrifying.
		We got into the truck, got completely side of the hunting.
		This is about five miles back to the main highway.
		And we had to stop several times.
		It's only a 30-mile trip from our club back into the city of Columbia.
		We had to stop several times for fear of wrecking.
		And we were both very sick, very ill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This was no dream.
unidentified		This was no dream.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This was no dream, State.
unidentified		This was alcohol-induced.
		This was not a redneck club.
		This club was comprised of doctors, lawyers, law enforcement personnel.
		My pastor was the president of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, one good thing, sir.
		You can follow directions.
		I have a feeling if you had not gotten out of there, you probably wouldn't be here now.
unidentified		Well, I will say this to you, that the story goes that our clubhouse is sitting on what is considered the old summer hallway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you hold?
unidentified		Certainly can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stay right there.
		We'll finish the story after the break.
		The evidence is cumulative, and it becomes overwhelming, doesn't it?
		If you get our final hour, we'll be right back with more.
unidentified		And we figured we were all so smart, ha ha ha.
		Well, my buddy dared me for $100 to go in the house.
		And the thing is, if you go into the house, then nine bad things will happen to you.
		I guess I was hoping it would have been American.
		But it was a Canadian, I guess.
		be killed.
		I was that petrified.
		It's almost what it was, but this is...
		This is where it even gets weirder.
		I phoned him up and I'm like, I'm petrified.
		I totally freaked right out.
		I was doing my checks on the building, my security checks.
		Normally I walked through.
		I ran through all four floors and downstairs to the basement and ran back into this office.
		I did it.
		Normally it takes about 20 minutes for a check.
		I did it in five.
		And I had him all on the phone all night, and I was petrified.
		And him and me got to talking.
		And we noticed that between the nine days from his place to here, we're on the same hundred block.
		It's in a straight line.
		And we noticed that within those nine days, bad, like this one guy ended up going, who had, like, he had a sort of a bad background, but he, one night, he went berserk and started shooting through the wall with a shotgun.
		What?
		Yeah, in the same hundred block, on the straight line.
		Another girl was murdered in that nine days.
		More breaking enters, more violent crimes, all the way in a straight line.
		And I'm like, well, hand me a map.
		So we mapped it out, eh?
		And it's all in a straight line.
		And we continued watching the news and newspaper.
		And in a straight line, straight out where that house is, that's a total nightmare.
		Where that barn is that we went, that house where we went to is directly in a straight line from that barn or house, sorry, to the hotel to his house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think I've got it.
unidentified		And straight through, it was nothing but evil.
unidentified		Right through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The nines.
		All right, we'll call that story the nines.
		I appreciate the call.
unidentified		That sounds like a curse, doesn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It'd be almost unbearable, wouldn't it, watching something like that unfold once you had figured out what was going on and you had it plotted on the map the way he did, to watch it unfold and just move across nines?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, Art.
		Hello.
		Yeah, I've got some good ones for you.
		I grew up in a haunted house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You grew up in a haunted house?
unidentified		I grew up in a haunted house.
unidentified		Okay, well, pick your best one and say, you want very evil?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll take evil.
unidentified		Okay, I was living in a house in Maryland, and evidently the area was all woods at one time.
		I have no idea what drew this thing to this house, but from the time we had moved in, things were going on.
		I would spend all day cleaning a room, and within 15 minutes, it was a total disaster again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With nobody going in?
unidentified		With nobody going in the room.
		One particular night, I had started sleeping on the couch for some reason upstairs in the living room, and the couch was across from the picture window.
		I felt the couch rocking, head to toe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've already done more than I would have done.
		I mean, if somebody was screwing up these rooms after you cleaned them, you could either only presume somebody was going in and, you know, messing with your work, or there was something going on, yeah.
		That's right.
unidentified		Well, I thought it was poltergeist activity because I had two young ladies in the house, and I figured it would pass.
		Well, when the couch started rocking back and forth, I came slightly awake, and I said, no, it's my imagination.
		I'm asleep.
		Nice write-off, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, sure.
unidentified		Until I felt two hands go down on my ankles, lift me solidly off the couch, and hurl me toward the window.
		What?
		Uh-huh.
		It picked you up by the ankles and threw you toward the window?
		Yeah.
		I came full awake.
		I yelled, Lord and help now, and I hit the floor.
		Whew, and I turned around and it had nice glowing red eyes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I left the house.
unidentified		Sat outside all night.
unidentified		No, I take it the Lord did not immediately intervene.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Otherwise, Red Eyes would have been gone, right?
unidentified		He didn't get rid of them, but he made it stop so I wasn't going through the window.
		And as far as I know, Red Eyes is still there.
		He says, I've moved halfway across the country, and from what I've heard, the people that bought the house have tried to rent it over and over again.
		Nobody stays in this house more than five months.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you know, not too many people know, but did you know that in a lot of places, the law says that if you have a haunted house, you have got to notify potential buyers of that fact under the law?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		That wasn't the case in Maryland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maryland's a pretty haunted place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's no question about that.
unidentified		I did tell friends of mine, and they kept saying, well, get the place exorcised.
		We tried that.
		It came back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You actually went to an exorcist?
unidentified		We went to one of the priests in town who did the floral blessing of the house.
unidentified		This thing would come and go at will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I appreciate the call.
		I don't like things with red eyes.
		I've never liked things with red eyes.
		To me, for some reason, that is evil personified, red glowing eyes.
		I don't know why I feel that way, but I do.
		Evil personified.
		Nightmare stuff.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, I got a story from you from Okinawa.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okinawa?
unidentified		Yes.
		I spent, as you know, over a decade on the island of Okinawa.
		I was stationed there from 94 to 97.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		And during that time, my neighbor was a pilot of Okinawa.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		okay.
		Listen, I just realized I'm close to a break.
		Can you hold on?
unidentified		Sure.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A story about, okay, no, this will be good.
		Stay right there.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		A very old friend came by today Cause he was telling every morning town Of the love that he's just found And the reason is of his latest friend He taught and taught and I heard him say That she had a long and quiet hand to put a dream in our living world.
		And the reason they...
		Describe it.
		And I would put the books down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So was it ever so annoyingly hot that you would intentionally call on whatever this was to get it cold?
unidentified		That's a good idea.
		Think about that this summer when our electric bill comes in.
		And I would put it down, and then I would go look through the Bible to see what kind of scriptures that said, and then, you know, it would, you know, dissipate.
		And then every time I would go read these books, it would get absolutely so cold.
		And I just thought, I didn't think anything about it.
		Well, except for cool.
		You know, I was ignorant, I guess.
		I didn't really think anything about it.
		I guess after a week, I was reading, and I kept feeling like there was something watching me, following me around, and it would just be a really weird presence in the house.
		My husband was working, the baby would be napping, or he would look at something like he was like a cat track something, and he would start crying.
		And I would say, what is going on?
		And this would go on.
		And then I was at the kitchen sink.
		It's an old house, you know, with the window, those old deep sinks.
		I was washing dishes, and I wasn't thinking about anything that I was reading.
		It was just a very hot, sultry day.
		And all of a sudden, Art, I felt these very thick, cold, icy fingers touch my shoulders, move up to my neck, wrap around my neck, and gave me a gentle squeeze.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
unidentified		That's about what I said, too.
		And it scared me.
		I don't remember what I did.
		I think I was too scared to even say, oh, God.
		I just could not move.
		And there was this always when I would feel like something was following me, and especially at that time when those icy fingers touched me, there would be this awful kind of like boiled egg smell in the house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rotten eggs, yes.
unidentified		Yeah, rotten eggs, right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sulfur, actually.
unidentified		Sulfur, that's right.
unidentified		But that was the most empty, void of any kind of compassion, light, or whatever evil sensation I have ever felt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, after hearing your whole story, I'd rather suffer the heat.
unidentified		Yeah, really.
		That's why we probably won't call on that thing this summer.
		But when you have a toothache, you know how it hurts so bad you don't know how, you think, gosh, is my jaw that deep?
		Right.
		That's how cold I felt so deep inside my soul.
		I didn't realize that I was really that thick.
		It was so deep.
		Well, after that, I thought, forget this noise.
		So I took all those books, I took them to the patio, put them in our hibachi, and I torched the things.
		Wow.
		I have never had anything happen like that since.
		We've had things happen, but not like that, not evil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that sure is some story, man.
unidentified		Well, thank you for the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, Deb.
unidentified		Oh, you too.
unidentified		Bye-bye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bye.
		All right.
		Well, so then, is it an entity that was attached to those books?
		Could some of those books just have been inherently evil in some manner?
		A cold thing that would eventually reach up and grip your neck?
		I don't blame her.
		I would have burned them, too.
		East of the Rockies, you're on air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, Art.
		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm all right, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Nashville.
		My name's Jeff.
		Yes, sir.
		I guess my story kind of starts.
		I was in sixth grade, and I have like a younger brother who's about 18 months younger than me.
		And we used to visit an elderly couple in an old house that was next door to us.
		It was a small town.
		And our house sat beside this old house, and then right beside it was a big church.
		And we used to go there every day, basically, just to catch up with them, tell them how our day was and everything.
		And every time we were over there, we only stayed in the kitchen of the house.
		But every time we were over there, there would be a door that would slam, and it would come from upstairs.
		And, you know, we didn't think anything of it, my brother and I. But one of the couple would always go upstairs after the door had slammed.
		And they're the only two that lived in the house, and they were always in the kitchen with us when it happened.
		And I didn't think anything of it.
		And I was upstairs only once in the house, and the elderly man was giving me some stamps.
		And it happened, the door slammed again while we were up there.
		And it kind of was like, well, it's an old drafty house.
		It kind of looked like one of the, like from a Scooby-Doo mansion, you know.
		It was almost like the rest of the house outside of the kitchen, the kitchen was modern, but the rest of the house just absorbed light.
		You know, it was so dark.
		The wood was so dark, and it was kind of creepy.
		But, you know, I never felt ill at ease there.
		But I got into high school, and I was at Hayride, and one of the girls who was out of high school knew most of the folklore about the town.
		And she was telling us that there was a house next to a church in town where someone had committed suicide.
		And I was like, well, which church?
		Because there was about three churches in there and she told me it was the Presbyterian church and sure enough that was the house that I used to live next door to and would go to every day and, you know, hear this door slam upstairs.
		And uh we oh man, this is this is where it gets a little creepy.
		One Halloween we had taken pictures outside of me and my brother and my younger sister out in the yard with that house in the background.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And we had a strange occurrence on the film itself.
unidentified		It looked like you know what a double exposure looks like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
unidentified		But oh man, it's creeping me out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was it that you saw in that photograph?
unidentified		There was a it was a picture of me and my brother and my sister.
		Right.
		And it was like our body or our presence had shifted all the way over away from where that room is in the background of the picture.
		And our presence had kind of shifted over away from ourselves.
		But our bodies were the only thing that were double exposed in the, that looked double exposed in the picture.
		And it was a little vaporous kind of thing going on there, too.
		It was a, you know, and we'd taken like three pictures outside that day of us in our Halloween outfits.
		And the one with the room in the background was the only one that was different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then I've got to ask you the same thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you still have the photograph?
unidentified		I believe my mother has it.
		And I think she, yeah, she has a scanner.
		So I'll have her look for that and I'll send it to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, we live in some day and age, don't we, when mom has a scanner.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm telling you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		I appreciate your call and your story.
		And I wish we had more time, folks, but we are out or oot of time, as it were.
		Sorry about that.
		It always rushes by.
		Ghost to ghost is, as I said, something we're going to be doing more of during the year than just, you know, at Halloween because it's so interesting and because things are changing out there.
		We're beginning to, I don't know, we're getting close to a big change.
		Don't you say?
		I do.
		Have a good night, everybody.
		And tomorrow night is going to be very, very interesting.
		Brittany Petros from Big Brother is going to be here, and then we're going to have a guest on reality TV.
		It's going to be a different kind of night, but I think you're going to enjoy it.
		I'm Art Bell from the High Desert.
		The Desert of the Sea.

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