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Feb. 19, 2001 - Art Bell
02:56:26
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - UFO Expert - Don Ecker
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Time Text
The End.
Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
The night featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 19th to the 21st.
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and or good morning on a mysterious night, and welcome to that signal heard from Guam in the west, eastward to the U.S.
Virgin Islands in the Caribbean, south into South America, north all the way to the pole worldwide on the internet.
This is Coast to Coast AM and I'm Art Bell and we have a legitimate mystery on our hands tonight.
I began getting emails and lots of emails saying, guess what?
Well, I'll read you exactly what they said.
Harp Transmitter now running at full power.
Harp Transmitter now running at full power.
Can easily be heard around the world on Troll Wave Radio.
As of this morning, this is somebody reporting Saturday, February 17, 2001, HAARP began doing testing with greatly increased full power.
The transmitter can now be heard all day long on 3.39 MHz.
Very early this morning, at about 3 a.m., HAARP could be heard at its old normal signal strength.
At about 4 a.m., the signal changed in both its pulse and timing.
An inter-pulse spacing at 4.30 a.m., the signal strength suddenly increased tremendously.
Unlike previous mornings, there was no regular F-layer daytime fade-out.
When the sun rose here in California at 6.45 a.m., I continued to monitor during the daylight.
I've never heard the HAARP signal during the daytime before.
The sun now rises in Kokona, Alaska at about 10 a.m.
Pacific.
The received signal again increased from about S5 to S9 at 10.05, and it goes on and on and on and on.
About HAARP.
And so, of course, uh, getting so many emails from so many people, I tuned in, and you can, you can believe it, it's there.
In fact, I've got my receiver up right now, and any time now, it's gonna come in and pulse.
Unless they're listening to me and decide to turn it off.
It's some sort of data.
That is clear.
It's some kind of data running.
There it is!
There it is live.
That's what you just heard.
Was HAARP live?
Or, well, let me correct that.
We now have information suggesting it might not be HAARP.
Now again, it's at 3.39 MHz.
You tell me out there.
Y'all tell me.
What are you hearing?
That's where HAARP used to be at 3.39.
at 3.39. If this isn't harp, then what is it?
There you've got it. Dead on 3.39.
Dead on 3.39, just pegging the meter.
Strong as can be, so... In a moment, we'll go to Alaska and we'll talk to Nick Begich.
Nick Begich, the author of Angels Don't Play This Harp.
Now, he's talked to HAARP, and in a few moments he will tell you what the people at the HAARP facility said.
Now we take you back to the night of February 19th, 2001, on Arkvell's Somewhere in Time.
I just don't know what to tell you.
This thing is here.
It's operating.
It's running.
I don't know what it is.
There it is.
It comes in pulses like that, and then just cuts right off.
All right, so, up to Alaska now, the man who wrote the book called Angels Don't Play This Harp.
Here's Nick Begich.
Nick, welcome.
Hey, it's good to be with you again, Art.
It's good to have you here.
You know, we've been searching this out, and we just got an email from a fellow that thinks he knows what this might be.
And what he says is that this is in the second harmonic above the North Slope, and someone may be trying to accelerate electrons.
And that this is the right frequency for electronic acceleration theories.
And he's suggesting it's either high-pass, or one of the Norwegian or Russian antennas.
And the person we're hearing that from is Dr. Bernard Eastland, who is the inventor of the HAARP technology.
Oh, you're kidding!
No, we emailed him earlier and he got it back.
Oh, you're kidding!
So he's not exactly sure, but he thinks it may be something exotic like that.
Exactly.
And this is one of the ideas that was, you know, that was one of the things behind the HAARP project.
High-pass is a smaller transmitter that was supposed to be significantly smaller than HAARP.
But today, as we kind of searched through the files and really took another look at some of these things,
what we're finding is that HiPASS is actually being retrofitted to have a much higher effective radiated power than
originally designed, which indicates that HAARP as well will have a much higher,
using that same set of principles.
But today what we did is we actually contacted folks at the HAARP facility
and some of our friends in the area.
Now, just one quick note, and this is why everybody would naturally think it's HAARP.
This is the frequency where HAARP has tested previously, correct?
Absolutely.
In fact, on March 27, 1999, it was tested at exactly 3.39 megahertz, which is the signal
being reported today.
The other thing that we double-checked is we went back into the HAART documents just
to see what their spectrum allocations were, and they are allocated the spectrum between
3.155 and 3.4.
So it's right in the range that we're hearing the signal.
today. The other thing that's interesting is the over the horizon radar which is one
of the applications of HAARP has an allocation of 3 to 30 megahertz so it could be within
that range. Well that's most of the shortwave band but let me tell you something about this
particular signal.
During the daytime, when there is no propagation, essentially, in other words, when signals on this frequency really go nowhere, they don't begin to propagate until later at night, I was still hearing this.
That's some kind of line of sight, or I couldn't, if it was coming from Alaska, I couldn't imagine how I'd be hearing it all the way from Alaska during the daytime.
Here at night, it's rock-crushingly strong.
I mean, it's really strong.
Well, one of the things to remember about HAARP is, and these ionosphere caterers, of which there are several around the planet, Yeah, tell everybody, if you would.
I'm sorry for interrupting, Nick, but it's been so long since we did a show and I'm rushing into this one because of what's going on.
Tell everybody, real quick, what HAARP is.
HAARP is the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Project.
It's a joint effort of the Navy and Air Force to test a number of ideas with respect to the ionosphere.
And this is a layer that begins about 30 miles above the Earth's surface and continues several hundred miles out into space.
And by manipulating this layer and artificially simulating this layer, the idea is that you'll be able to propagate or interfere with the propagation of communications across the planet.
So this is one of the very things that we would expect to see.
In other words, during the daytime, when signals are more difficult to transfer around the planet, HAARP and systems like HAARP are designed to enhance that propagation.
Now, a couple things are happening internationally right now I think may contribute to some of what we're seeing.
It may not help us yet figure out who's transmitting today, but we know that the Russians have
been running war games over the last several days, including the weekend, where they launched
from an air-to-ground, from a submarine-to-ground, and from a portable ground-to-ground nuclear
missile.
And with those, there's been a lot of saber rattling in terms of the Russian capability
with its missile systems and defense systems.
And that's in advance of a meeting that's taking place this Saturday, and it's going to take place in Moscow between Secretary of State Colin Powell and the Russian Foreign Minister.
Actually, that's in Cairo.
And then later, a visit to Moscow by the NATO Secretary General, George Robertson, is to take place.
And some of this, it may very well be that the signal's being generated by them as a show of capability in this particular band.
And bearing in mind what Dr. Eastland has just informed us... Alright, again, tell us, Dr. Bernard Eastland is the developer of HAARP?
He was the inventor of the patents, the primary patents surrounding this technology.
And then later he was contracted by Atlantic Richfield through a subsidiary he created called It was Arcopower Technologies Inc.
And that organization was the one that won the first contracts to develop this HAARP
facility and test the theories.
Now...
Alright, and he responded to you tonight, just before air time, saying that it might
be what?
That it's, um, that they may be using it to accelerate electrons.
And part of that is, is that's the whole idea of heating the ionosphere or creating artificial
plasmas which can reflect A radio signal around the curvature of the Earth.
Then who might be trying to accelerate electrons?
Well, he indicates it could be High Pass, which is near Fairbanks.
It could also be the Norwegians, which have an ionospheric heater similar to HAARP.
Or it could be Russian antennas.
And the interesting thing about the Russian antennas, and I think he's grouping them because Ukraine, as part of the former Soviet Union, also has one of these arrays, And we know from the Ukraine's website, which we also checked tonight, they have ongoing collaborations with both High Pass and HAARP and Cornell University.
But I must tell you, Nick, that with the way 3.39 MHz would operate during the middle of the day, if I were to hear it here, which I did, and it were in Fairbanks, your high passing Fairbanks,
the Norwegians or the Russians, it would be an incredible accomplishment.
I've never heard anybody do this before on that frequency when propagation is closed.
That would be an astounding thing.
Well, this is what to remember about HAARP and this whole concept was to create the environment
where they could literally artificially stimulate the ionosphere in a way to do exactly these kinds of things.
Well, if that would be true and that's what it is, then somebody has succeeded.
And everybody should know this is actually blasting a hole, if you want to think of it that way,
in the ionosphere or heating the ionosphere.
And I heard originally that HAARP was intended to also look for underground bunkers and tunnels, correct?
Yes, that's correct.
And that there could be biological effects on human beings and all the rest of it?
Absolutely.
In fact, when HAARP was first designed, the interesting part of it was the versatility of the instrument.
And that's what I think attracted lots of scientists to look at it, because not only Could it affect the ionosphere for say communications purposes?
But as you say, if you pulse the signal in at the right pulse rate, what happens is the ionosphere, this layer above the earth, begins to vibrate or resonate in harmony with the signal, and the pulse rate of the signal.
And what that causes is what's called an extremely low frequency signal, or an ELF, which comes down to the earth, passes through the earth, And this is what they use for earth-penetrating tomography and also for communication with submarines, and it happens to also correlate with the predominant brainwave frequencies of human beings, which has been one of the more controversial areas surrounding this technology.
Now, when you called some physicists, I guess, at the HAARP facility earlier today, they deny it's them, right?
That's correct.
In fact, we started with a conversation, it actually was my staff, a person here who spoke with Michelle and Enger-Brittson,
who was the site manager.
She had Dr. Zwei call me back and I spoke with him for a few minutes.
And it's interesting because we also at the same time emailed Edward Kennedy,
who's with the Navy's program on HAARP.
And what we got back from Kennedy...
The reality was nothing had been done since November and yet what we got back from the
site was nothing had been done since January which are significantly conflicting comments.
And now we're, you know, we had...
When did you begin getting the same reports I began getting today?
It was probably around 10, 30, 11 this morning.
This morning?
Uh huh.
I think that's when we got the first fax of the article that you had quoted from as we
began this.
At first, we looked at it and thought, well, it's interesting.
We did a little bit of looking around.
We didn't really find anything to confirm, but when you called me later in the early afternoon, we decided to really take a dive into this.
It's interesting.
The search yielded a lot more than we expected, maybe in a few different directions.
We're a little skeptical about what the HAARP folks are saying because one of the other
things they have said historically is that they would not interfere with the ham radio
operators band and yet they did experiment, it was about a year and a half, maybe two
years ago now, where they actually interfered significantly.
Yeah, well I received those.
I remember receiving it and I was unimpressed at the time.
I guess it was kind of low power and it wasn't that much.
I heard it but it wasn't much.
What we have on here now, 3.39, is a...
A bone crusher.
And I sure would like to know where it's coming from.
Well, and the other thing about this right now is the developmental prototype, back when they were running those tests, they only had 18 antennas that were firing.
They have the full prototype array of 48 at this first phase of development, which has an ERP of just under 300 megawatts.
And that's the effective radiated power.
So certainly within the range of what HAARP is capable of, And within its historic operating frequencies, those coincidences seem a little large for me to just accept the fact that they're not firing.
Now, are they using this facility?
Are they using another facility somewhere else on the planet?
I think that's still a mystery, but I believe that... In other words, there could be, kind of like in the movie with Jodie Foster, there were two machines Yeah.
Could there be one public harp and one not-so-public harp?
Absolutely.
In fact, at this point, just given the publicity and the controversy over this facility that continues, I mean significantly continues in Europe more so than the United States, I would think that is probably exactly what's happened is a lot of this interest and activity has shifted off of the site and it's something that was pretty predictable and what we hear today uh... talking to doctor doctors we have got there's no
i'm big additional funding coming in for her which is a little surprising for a program that's already
you know sucked up a couple hundred million dollars in its direct
expenditures and that's where expenditures especially at a time
uh... when this administration and the past administration are getting ready to deploy a full-blown missile defense
shield alaska Now you said $200 million?
Yes, and that's on the direct expenditures.
You have to remember that ionospheric modification as an area of research has involved billions over the years, and the missile defense system that's being contemplated for Alaska, they've already spent $6.6 billion on that project with an anticipated top dollar price tag of around $85 billion when it's finished.
And that's just the surveillance side.
That's just the kind of technology that HAARP would yield in terms of surveillance and over-the-horizon capacity, and maybe some interference capacity.
But certainly, you know, it's a big number.
They've been talking about ground-to-air missiles as the methodology for affecting missile defense, but I believe, based on the research we've done, that that is a ploy, that that is not what's intended to be used.
It will be either a space-based laser system or it will be a ground-based electromagnetic
weapon system.
There's one in particular the Department of Energy controls right now that looks more
in line with what they'll put in conjunction with this over-the-horizon facility that's
being built in the Aleutian chain.
Maybe what we can do is prevail on the zillions of hands who listen to this program and find
Now, if Dr. Bernard Eastland might be right about...
uh... one of his guesses high-pass at fairbanks the norwegians or the russians but i find it hard to believe that it's any of those it might be it might be but uh... and he knows a lot more about it than i do i so hands out there and listen to three point three nine three point three nine give us a report on what you hear what's this about uh... you touched on this when we talked earlier uh... nick Uh, could tornadoes be prevented?
And you sent me something on this.
Yeah.
From CBS.
Let me, let me say this also.
Even if it is the Russians, and even if it is the Norwegians, bear in mind they're in cooperative agreements with the HAARP facility, so it may very well, they may be transmitting, but it may be us.
remember that as we go through it. It's really hard to know these days who you're hearing.
And even when you know where it's coming from, you don't really know who it is. Exactly,
because of all the collaborations. The thing about the tornadoes, and the reason I sent
you that is it's kind of a follow on to the HAARP story because early on we had said that
HAARP like facilities or the HAARP facility itself could be used for affecting weather
patterns. And what we found, and this is really interesting, in the April-May issue of Science,
Scientific America actually, there's an article on weather, in fact the whole issue is on
weather, and there's one about the tornadoes that occurred in Orlando a few years ago.
And those, this is really interesting, is why they occurred there instead of East Texas
where they were supposed to be, was there was a little jog in the jet stream, a little
dog leg in the jet stream that just so coincidentally happened right above the HAARP facility and
it shoved the weather patterns from East Texas over to Florida.
uh... maybe a year or so later we have the oklahoma tornadoes that everyone
should remember the oklahoma city tornadoes and clinton went out on the air right afterwards and said
hey folks don't worry one of these days we're gonna figure out how to knock
out a tornado yes he did and everyone kind of laughed at him but what
they didn't know is just a couple months before dr bernard eastland
had modeled on the university of oklahoma's computers in oklahoma city
uh... this new concept he had using harp instruments on the ground
to knock out the energy of tornadoes by the way they say in here in the article
they say microwaves right right
in what they originally did with this there's two papers involved there was an
early paper done for the european space agency using ground-based harp type systems
and then there was a second study that was commissioned and this was the one that uh... cds
picked up on it And what they talked about was a satellite-based technology that would create the same effect.
And that study was sponsored by an interesting combination of NASA and FEMA.
All right.
Hold on, Doctor.
We'll be right back.
Listen to this.
The basic thought, quoting Eastland, Bernard Eastland, is to find the right spot in one of the storms, the area where the energy is going into rotation, and to change it.
They talk about a tornado being drafted between a hot updraft and a cold, rainy downdraft, and the job would be done with a 500-foot-wide beam of microwave energy aimed at Earth from an orbiting satellite.
That's all in this article.
3.39!
What do you hear, folks?
I'm Art Bell, and this...
This is Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 19, 2001.
Music playing.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 19th, 2001.
Good morning.
On this, uh, idea to perhaps disperse tornadoes with 500-foot-wide beams of microwave beamed from a satellite or from Earth up, you know...
Well, John Monteverdi, a meteorologist at San Francisco State University, said, We really don't understand supercells enough to start fooling around with things like this.
Stephen Schneider, a global warming expert at Stanford University, quote, The trouble with all these schemes, beaming energy from space down into storms, is we're not certain how well they'll work.
End quote.
Heh heh heh heh heh. You are doing some interesting things, aren't we?
Heh heh heh heh heh.
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Now we take you back to the night of February 19th, 2001, on Arkvell's Somewhere in Time.
Again, remember what creates a tornado, they think, the hot and the cold coming together.
Quoting, it's suspected that a tornado forms between a hot updraft and a cold rainy downdraft.
Now with microwaves...
I could heat that cold, rainy downdraft.
Yes, but what if you missed and hit instead the hot updraft and brought that to about two or three times its normal temperature?
Dr. Begich, welcome back.
Hey, it's good to be back with you.
That's exactly it.
I mean, these kinds of experiments, if you miss the mark, so to speak, and you create the opposite effect, you end up intensifying the storm.
And perhaps, you know, by a magnitude.
I mean, who knows?
I mean, the fact is, this is one of the problems with this kind of experimentation only to find out if you
do it and when you do it
uh... and you don't really know what the result was going to be uh... pretty good
pretty disturbing results could happen and without with weather modification as an issue when we
spoke before the european parliament in february nineteen ninety
eight we brought up
this issue we brought up the issue surrounding missile defense and
that was the year before
of the public uh... or anyone politically was aware that the united states was preparing to unilaterally
violate the a b m treaty which was the anti-ballistics missile treaty signed by the
soviets back uh... years and years ago
the problem is uh... and what has happened since is is we have accelerated
the pace and now going into this next week
we have um... are are new secretary of state on his way over uh...
to talk to um...
uh... the russian foreign minister in cairo at the same time we've got the chinese and russians both
cooperating in opposition to our initiative in missile defense.
Our NATO allies are highly disturbed because of their lack of inclusion.
And it would make sense to us that either the United States or the Russians or possibly the Chinese
are demonstrating their ability to manipulate ionospheric processes,
which is a key to missile defense.
In other words, if the Russians say they demonstrated they already have this capability,
it kind of renders where we're headed sort of obsolete.
I mean, if we think we're going to defend against them, likewise, perhaps it's us demonstrating to Russians our capability now to make their missile tests that they've just demonstrated over the weekend to show them that those tests don't mean anything because we could stop those missiles with HAARP-based technology.
And bear in mind, right after the book on HAARP published, we had an article that we got from Estavia, which is a Russian publication, Well, they were asking the United States to join them in an initiative for missile defense using a ground-based system of phased array antennas that would do exactly what HAARP was designed to do.
And now we see years later, here's this demonstration in war games, and now we have this mysterious signal that demonstrates a capability nobody thought really existed on the planet.
All right.
You know, ham radio operators, if you have a tower in your neighborhood, you're a marked man.
I mean, any little flicker that people see on their TV, they're going to, you know, they're going to come knocking on your door.
That's right.
You've got to be the one.
So HAARP is really a marked facility because right now, for example, there's a UN report that just came out on our weather and how it's going to get so violent and Uh, unreasonable, I mean it's a, here's the Honolulu Star Bulletin.
Global warming could change days late, scientist says.
That's a very interesting one.
So the weather is going to be changing and becoming more violent.
I wrote a book about that a long time ago, and I'm sure that as it does, and as tragedies occur, people are going to do what?
They're probably going to blame HAARP, even if it isn't their fault.
That's exactly the case.
In fact, we're seeing it show up more and more.
I mean, the good news there is at least people know that there is a HAARP facility, and they know that it has the potential for creating these problems.
And this is one of the things the Europeans called for and we've been asking for ever since we started this independent monitoring.
If we had independent monitoring of the HAARP facility and facilities like HAARP, we would all know today right now where that signal is being generated from.
and and and and what and perhaps even why it's being uh...
being propagated the problem is no no you directly ask them and they told
you it was not them do you believe that one hundred percent
given given their history and given their posturing in the last few years
uh... no i i don't believe in a hundred percent uh... in fact ninety nine no i
think it's more in the order of maybe they are maybe they're not which is
done around fifty fifty and they've been too many instances where
misinformation has come across or deliberate
uh... skewing of the data in a way that makes it suspect in the enemy even
simple things i mean they went from calling uh... these at these efforts
campaigns and then when in between campaigns they had engineering
test which actually were just like campaigns
uh... and so it's hard to say whether it's uh... firing in a campaign maybe if
there's an engineering test they did tell us interestingly enough that there is
a test planned and on the twenty seventh of this month you should be able to pick up the signal as they do their
engineering test and on the evening of the twenty eighth
through the first mayor's authorized to begin a test sequence
and so we can watch and see what that you know what that entails
But again, they've missed their testing schedules before, and they've had tests where they have not been scheduled before.
And their own program manager at the site versus their program manager at the naval facilities back east can't agree on when the last test was, and they're separated by about three months.
So, who knows who's telling the truth?
Obviously, they're not giving us the full story.
Well, it looks like they're bound and determined to go ahead with HAARP and other weather modification attempts at a time when the weather is seemingly modifying itself, and when we're doing it, depending on which side of the argument you believe.
Either way, it's getting worse.
It's getting worse.
And it's going to get a lot worse.
And these kinds of experiments with systems that we don't fully understand may in fact be the straw on Matt Campbell's back.
And as you know, we've been saying that For at least four or five years in terms of what HAARP might entail, and here we are at a time when hostilities are ramping up at a time when they ought to be stabilizing, and they're not.
We're headed the opposite direction, and the missile defense issue is central to the international debate in terms of what's going to yield either peace or a new cold war and this is very upsetting and it's a
thing that we've predicted from the very beginning and here we are at a time when we should
have a peace dividend and instead we have the opposite.
We have saber rattling even amongst our own allies.
That is a very disturbing situation.
Well the national days in a lot of ways are kind of over and by that I mean what we would
do here in America scientifically or the Russians would do in Russia or whoever, wherever would
be a local effect but now we're approaching these technologies where individual nations
can do something that will affect or could affect the entire world.
Absolutely.
In fact there's...
You know, there was a comment made by Secretary of Defense Cohen dealing with some of these new exotic weapon systems, and he was equating them to, or giving credit to terrorist states, and he said, others are engaging even in the eco-type of terrorism where they can alter climates, set off earthquakes and volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves, unquote.
And he said that on April 28, 1997 at the University of Georgia.
That is very disturbing.
The idea that terrorist states, through electromagnetic waves, could alter climate, create earthquakes
or volcanic eruptions, that's pretty, you know, saying, giving credit to terrorist states
as unsophisticated as they are in their technologies, that's saying that maybe this technology is
much simpler than we here to forethought.
About everything I've been talking about lately has had to do with electromagnetics, Nick.
It's amazing.
It's amazing.
Synchronous, I guess.
It's where, you know, whether it's hardware, software or human beings, this is the cutting
edge of where science is headed.
And if you look at what we wrote a year ago, we said basically an outline of technologies
and what was coming.
And what we've heard from this latest administration is the intent to leapfrog into the next generation
of technologies above where most people think we are.
It's exactly where we said it was going.
a bit of a profit we couldn't have laid it out more clearly and we didn't do it that way.
We did it with 650 source documents saying this is what's coming and here it is a year later and
we're right in the middle of it and we have the mystery signal and hopefully people out there in
the ham community might be able to locate that signal the same way they located the woodpecker
signal back years ago.
Yeah, we'll find it.
Here's what I would ask cams to do.
Monitor tonight, now if you wish, on 3.39.
Report its signal strength, but then even perhaps as important, more importantly, tomorrow during the day when propagation is closed on that frequency, listen and give me reports during the day, and that'll really help us nail it down.
Because if it's really, really strong, really, really close to you, then we'll know.
We'll know.
If we get enough reports from all of you out there, send them to artbellatmindspring.com.
We'll figure it out.
It'll be interesting, because this may turn out to be surprising for everyone.
I think it's going to be an interesting thing to see what exactly is happening.
If it's a harp, that will be a confirmation of knowing that we can't depend on them for good information.
But if it's not a harp, uh... it shouldn't be discounted too quickly will take a
look at what there may be a little bit about the some sort of innocent
data service but i i i've never heard of before obviously nobody else has either
so we need to figure out what it is and we can do that uh...
with with the help of everybody out there we can certainly do that
well it would be a fine you would think within the spectrum of fabricate and
that that that that range of frequency when we did our search
today is is not a sign to anyone specifically or any particular application
except ham operators between three point five and four
Right, but bearing in mind this is 3.39, which is down below 3.
Yeah, just below.
And exactly where HARP has been before, which is what is making it so suspect.
Exactly.
All right, you've got a new book, don't you, Nick?
Yes, I do.
It's Earth Rising Revolution, and it's on these technologies and lots of others, but mainly it's dealing with the new technologies, electromagnetic warfare, and the effects on humans as well as machines.
Well, we could do a whole program on that, I'm sure, couldn't we?
There's a lot of material.
In fact, we cover quite a bit there, and now looking back on it, we wish we had split it in a couple of titles, because there's just too much information for to be different subjects i guess but we felt like it was
the only way to turn to met them together so people could get a good overview
of what's here today and what's coming tomorrow and with this new
administration tomorrow is today
is there a way people can email you next yeah on the on the on my website at her fault dot com which
is linked to yours tonight right you can come on if you email us to that fight
all of those i see and my research assistant James Roderick,
who's also my co-author.
checks those all through the day and then we collate them at the end of the day and
make sure I get through everything.
So we do do that and I personally do that.
Alright, I'm sure you will receive reports as well then, maybe they'll copy you on this.
That would be great.
It would be good to keep them coming in one place, Hart.
So if they're coming through you and people have things they want to pass on to me, that's
great, but you're going to be able to interpret that with your HAM experience much better
than maybe I will.
So I'm looking forward to seeing what the public has to say, especially the overseas
That's going to help us a lot to figure out where this is coming from.
Oh, you're right!
I forgot about that!
My international listeners, I should never forget them.
And they're probably critical for this particular effort because wherever that signal is emanating from, if we have people across the globe checking that out tonight, we're going to have probably a pretty good bit of information by tomorrow.
People ask, how can a frequency like this, 3.39, affect possibly affect the weather or map anything they don't
understand the concept of the harmonic relationship Okay, if it's for if it's as Bernard Eastland said dr. Aston
said for electronic acceleration or heating in the ionosphere what
happens is a number of things can happen you can create plasmas for
Bouncing a signal from one end of the planet to the other and that's using a second
Facility which you could use harp and high pass here in Alaska for that
You could also use it for heating the ionosphere to create what's called a hole in the ionosphere
Where literally about a 30 mile diameter hole over?
opens up and goes maybe 200 kilometers out, so it's a big empty column.
The lower atmosphere then rushes in to fill that space, altering the flow of jet streams and or pressure systems
below the event.
And so, as I said earlier, the Scientific American article showing the slight dogleg coincidentally above HAARP would be one of the kinds of effects that you could stimulate with ionosphere heating.
Nick, why would Alaska be a particularly appropriate place to be doing all this?
Well, a couple things.
One is you need vast amounts of energy, which are available here.
And secondly, the closer you are to the poles, uh... where the magnetic lines of force intersect the
planet and more capable of the easier it is to manipulate ionosphere
processes uh... and to manipulate what's happening within those lines
of force both important to this program
and uh... you know this is um... alaska strategically as a point of defense is absolutely critical
for over the pole uh... attacks by any adversary trying to
uh... get to the united states And this is the ideal place to locate a national missile defense system, as has been shown in the hearings that have taken place.
There it is.
That was a burst right there.
It's amazing, you know.
And bear in mind that the things that are being equipped, the pulse energy, That's being looked at as one of the main issues surrounding many of these technologies.
You can take the energy of two car batteries, compress it, and release it in one hundred and fifty-fiftieths of a nanosecond, and it will create as much energy as the entire planet generates by six times in that little fraction of a second.
What?
So, pulsed energy.
This is, um... Oh, I see.
You mean the energy from two car batteries pulsed in one...
Yep, at just one hundred and fiftieth of a nanosecond, just that little fraction of a second.
But for that little fraction of a second, you exceed the power generating capacity of the world by almost six times.
And that burst of energy used in weapons application would knock out everything from intercontinental ballistics missiles to toaster ovens.
And this is the kind of technology that's being played with.
So if you're demonstrating an energy capability during the day that shouldn't exist, It's sending also a very strong signal to your adversaries of what else you might have in store for them.
So then the idea this might be some kind of demonstration also is not really out of line at all?
No, in fact you would expect somebody's demonstrating their capability.
The Russians renounced it all week long.
Now is it them or is it us showing that we can counter whatever they have?
It's an interesting question and maybe we'll get the answer.
Oh, I love mysteries.
But you don't let war games go unchallenged at this particular time, especially by a new administration.
It would make sense that we would want to have some show of capability and force.
Well, this is war games.
It sure is a new, fangled variety.
Well, this is the war game of the future.
We'll deal with electronic systems and human systems as information systems in a much different way than we have in the past.
All right, Nick, listen, uh, we're gonna schedule an entire program because obviously there's a lot of material for us to go over, all right?
All right, that sounds great.
All right, in the meantime, thanks, Nick.
Good night, uh, up there in Alaska.
Thank you, and God bless everyone.
All right, there you have it.
3.39.
3.39.
Take a listen, you tell me.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
The night featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 19th, 2001.
What a feeling!
Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's program originally aired February 19, 2001.
Good morning, everybody. We're monitoring a mysterious signal on 3.39 MHz
that Dr. Bernard Eastland says may be an attempt to accelerate electrons,
what's called high pass in Fairbanks.
It may be the Norwegians or the Russians or something entirely different.
It sounds much like a data transmission.
And we're soliciting hands all over to listen to the signal strength and report what it is wherever you are.
I'm beginning to get those reports now and I'll let you know as we correlate them and get them in what's going on.
Coming up in a moment, writer and commentator Don Ecker of the research director for ufo magazine and a long-time
investigator into ufo matters
and much more including the moon
which we're going to do tonight now we take you back to the night of february nineteenth
two thousand one on arkbell somewhere in time
and Oh, what an appropriate sound, huh?
You've seen the U.N.
report?
You've seen U.S.
News and World Report?
It's all... It's on CNN today!
It's all over the regular media, how the weather is preparing to turn on us.
And again, we're monitor... Here's an email.
Listen to this.
Listening from Traverse City, Michigan, so that's a long way away, right?
Cruising down the road, I dialed my ICOM 706 to 3.39.
Man, what a signal blast!
Sounds like it is, uh, combing the earth.
My friend, uh, the other day, a fellow QRPO, that means low-power person, uh, hit Italy on one watt.
The signal sounds like it's keyed much like a repeater on two meters.
In the very beginning of the sound art, uh, I could hear I could be wrong, but you hear a signal, a tone signal, then a scrapping sound, but it is a tone signal in the beginning.
Very interesting.
Welcome back, blah, blah, blah.
And on and on.
And I'm getting these reports from all over the country right now.
It's going to take quite a few of them to begin to correlate where I think this is.
And more importantly, it's going to take daytime monitoring as well.
Now, writer and commentator Don Ecker is the research director at UFO Magazine and a long-time investigator into UFO matters.
In 1966, Ecker had his own UFO sighting in Pennsylvania, an experience which lingered in his memory and became the foundation of his ongoing quest for more facts on the subject.
Now, the same thing happened to me.
When my wife and I had ours, it sort of settled something in your head and you go, Oh my God, this is either them or it's us.
And either way, it's a gigantic story.
Either we figured out how to defy gravity, or they are here.
Anyway, moving on, in 1969, Ecker enlisted in the U.S.
Army, ended up doing two tours of Vietnam with Special Operations, Army Security Agency, during the war.
After returning from Vietnam, Ecker served as a police officer in Idaho, Colorado, and Pennsylvania for medical retirement in 1986.
Having been seriously injured in a SWAT team accident, Ecker spent a good part of his recovery following up on UFO information by computer During his investigations at the time, Ecker ran across UFO Magazine, and subsequently contributed many articles.
In 1993, he married the magazine's co-founder and editor, Vicki Cooper.
With UFO Magazine, that's a marriage made in literary heaven, with UFO Magazine, Ecker continued his pursuit of the enigmatic UFO phenomena.
He has appeared on countless radio and television shows, in 1991 became the host of his own show called UFOs Tonight, and then Strange Days, and he's been all over, and most recently has published a book, actually wrong, is busily compiling information for a book on lunar anomalies.
Here is Don Ecker.
Hi Don!
All right, it's a great pleasure to be back, and it's a great pleasure to hear you on the airwaves again.
Well, thank you.
It's a great pleasure to be here.
That's a lot of pleasure.
Anyway, great to have you, Don.
You have sent me some photographs of the moon for use in tonight's program.
Yes, yes, up on your website.
Yes, on my website right now.
And you may recall we had, you and I had a discussion uh... here when i called you to do the show
and we were talking about lunar photographs and i said that in the past i've had some
and from varying sources including richard hoagland and others
and most times to be honest with you don when i look at them
they look like rocks
it is a black a desolate
it looks like almost perfectly clear As a matter of fact, if you were to take pictures of where I live, Don, from... It looks like the moon, right?
Yeah, it looks like the moon.
It's just like the moon.
As a matter of fact, on this UFO cover-up thing on Fox the other night, they said they thought that it was done out here at Area 51, which they suggested looks just like the moon.
And it does.
And so when I look at these photos, I'm looking for some of the things that people say are there.
And in the case of the ones you've sent, even the ones you've sent, I look at them and I say to myself, it looks like rocks.
Well, the moon art is basically made up of rocks.
Rocks, yes.
But the anomalies, now you've got to realize that in the eight, nine years now that I've been conducting this research, I have by now Looked at literally thousands of lunar photographs.
And the majority of these photographs are in black and white anyway.
One of the things that I want to talk about later on this evening was a show that I did a number of years ago, about six, seven years ago, with an engineer down in Houston.
Who also got on this trail of lunar photographs, and we were discussing the photographs that are publicly available, publicly accessible now, where the public can go, they can request photographs, they'll get them, and then the photographs that NASA has that have never seen the light of day, and these photographs are of extreme high resolution, high clarity, Much, much different than many of the photographs that we see.
But, the photos that I sent you, for example, one of the photographs showed two objects rolling over the lunar surface out of Vitelli Crater that are leaving very clear tracks as they're rolling across the surface.
They look almost like a Like an armored tread, like a tank tread.
Do you know which one I'm referring to?
Well I'm about to get online here.
I just rebooted.
I have the blue screen of death here so I'm rebooting and in just one moment I'll be online and I'll be able to look at the photograph you're talking about.
I know it's really important to be able to know What you're looking for when you see these photographs, or you say, as I did, just a bunch of rocks?
Sure.
And as a matter of fact, since you announced that on your website, or Keith Roland, your webmaster, put up that I was going to be on there, I've already received a number of emails from your listeners around the country that have gone up and looked at some of these photographs.
And I pretty heard, well gee, I don't know what I'm looking for.
I don't know what you're saying is there.
Alright, now which one do you want me to look at?
Okay, down, I think it's, uh, third from the bottom.
Third from the bottom, right?
One, two, three.
I, oh!
Oh!
All right, I'm there.
It says two rolling objects.
Right.
In the Tello Crater, is it?
Yes.
These objects rolled up and out of the crater.
Right.
Notice the tract, the larger one.
Out of the, up and out of the crater?
Yeah.
says that you're not looking at anything unusual these are just rocks that are
rolling across the lunar surface because of some inexplicable geological event
what but the problem is that they rolled up and out of the crater
wait a minute, some, they're saying nothing special just some anomalous effect on the moon
What, a moonquake or something?
Is that what they're talking about?
Well, it would seem that that's what they're referring to.
But they put instruments on the moon to detect stuff like that and look for... Which, incidentally, all those instruments are now turned off.
Turned off?
Yeah.
You know, this does look like it obviously took a... I mean, you can imagine that something would... Well, here I'm thinking a meteor hits the moon.
and those rolling along it.
Right.
But you're telling me this object came up out of a crater?
Yeah, and if you follow the tread back that it left in the lunar soil,
you'll see the hole that it came up out of.
Well, now let me see. When you click on it, you can get the full photograph.
Right.
Uh, oh yeah.
Now, what would it be doing coming up out of a hole?
And look at the tread that it leaves behind.
This is one of those inexplicable things that put me on this quest many years ago.
to go.
Because I'm not satisfied with the answers that have been forthcoming out of NASA.
But that's only one photograph.
Now if you go down to the next photograph below that, this is an area on the moon called King's Crater.
Alright, now I'm looking, you've got an arrow and you've got a circle.
Right.
on king's crater yes what am i looking at okay if you look just beside the circle to the left
and at about the 10 o'clock position yes i see i see an arrow yes there is and you have to look at
it i realized that if your eye is not trained it's going to be hard to see at first looks like a rock
well it's not If you look at it closer and click on it to get the full
effect art, you're going to see what to me, beyond any doubt, looks like the rear end of a
satellite dish.
Are you sure, Don, that we're just not... It does actually look like a random sunlight dish.
Exactly.
Now, at the upper left part of that photograph, you'll see a white arrow arc that's pointing down at two structures that are sitting in the shade.
Obviously, there's a wall behind it.
And when you look at it very closely, you'll see what appears to be two in the one structure, two lit windows in what to me looks like a, like a, it's styled like an old Army Quonset hut.
That's what it looks like to me.
I'm not saying that's what it is.
I'm not with you here.
I see the two white arrows above it.
Okay.
Go down to the, go back out to the main lunar screen.
Go down one more picture.
I sent that.
section blown up All right, which one is that I'm sorry how many of that's
great. That's the very last photograph very okay All right, very last photograph very last one on there and
click on that Yes, now look at about the nine o'clock position in that
photo And you will see what looks like a habitat and a tower
beside it With two lit windows I don't see that
It's a very last picture.
In fact, let me be sure of what it says.
It says, blow off the upper left corner of King's Crater.
Right.
These structures resemble a habitat and tower.
Exactly.
Now when you click on that and open it up, look over on the left hand side, right at the line of light between The wall in the rear.
Oh, wait a minute.
I do see what you're talking about.
What is that?
Well, that's an excellent question.
What is that?
I don't know, but it certainly doesn't look natural.
It looks like... Would that be a reflection?
Well, no.
It's not a reflection, but it's sitting, number one, it's sitting in the shadow.
And that extreme left structure looks like a building with two lit windows.
Right beside it is a tower-appearing structure.
Yeah, I see.
Now, are you sure?
I mean, I do see these things.
Now that you bring me straight to it, Don, I sure do see it.
Are you sure that we're just not... I mean, you could look at these photographs until you go blind, and eventually you'll begin to see, even in the most random video noise, you will begin to see things.
And now that you point it out, yeah, I see it.
But are you sure we're not a victim of looking at lunar photographs too close up for too long?
Well, until I would go to the moon, Art, I would have to leave that possibility open.
I personally am 95% positive that what I'm looking at are artificial anomalies.
All right, well, we haven't been back, how long has it been since we've been to the moon?
Well, it's been 1972.
It's been almost 30 years.
Yeah, 30 years.
Now, Richard Hoagland, I had an interesting debate here after the Fox show the other night.
Incidentally, where do you come down on that?
Did we go to the moon or not?
Of course we did.
We of course did.
All right, I agree with you.
I think we did.
As a matter of fact, I listened to Hoagland and Mr. Green debate that.
Okay.
I've got to tell you, I think Hoagland eviscerated Wayne Green, his arguments I mean.
Well, that's a strong word, eviscerated, but I do think that he won the debate in retrospect.
I don't know about eviscerated.
To me, it sounded like Hoagland pretty well eviscerated.
Yeah, he won the debate.
And what Richard said was that he believes we went to the moon, of course, but that the pictures are doctored.
Why are the pictures doctored, Richard says, because of what we found on the moon.
Exactly.
And I also believe that.
So right now, I'm in the very curious position of defending NASA, having just as sure as, you know, the sun is going to rise in the morning that we went to the moon, no doubt in my mind, but also taking them to task for basically the prevarications that have come out of NASA on many items, not the least of which is what happened up on the moon.
Now, you've got to realize that there's so much more to this than just a group of photographs.
Going back to the Apollo program in the mid-1960s, when we were getting ready to send first Apollo 8 to the moon, then Apollo 11, and so forth, NASA also knew that the moon had a very, very rich history of hundreds of years of anomalies that have been cited by professional astronomers all over the globe.
And as a result of that, they contracted and had a special report completed on lunar anomalies, on trans-lunar anomalies.
It's NASA TR-277 is the report.
As a matter of fact, you can find it online.
And it goes back to about 1540.
Let me be a NASA guy for a minute.
Sure.
All right?
Your position, let me understand it, Mr. Ecker.
Remember, I'm a NASA guy here.
Your position is that the photographs have been altered and that we altered them because of what we found on the moon and that's why we haven't been back to the moon.
Is that roughly correct, Mr. Ecker?
Roughly, yes.
I would have to say that is roughly correct.
Well, Mr. Ecker, let me give you our position.
Here at NASA, we would like nothing better than to find extraterrestrial life.
In fact, our funding and our ability to go back to the moon would be solidified in about two seconds flat if we had such evidence.
So we'd bring it before the American people and before Congress and the President immediately Uh, to give the space program a shot in the arm.
Why would you think we wouldn't do that?
Well, Mr. NASA person, you know, when I went to Vietnam the first time, I lost interest about 15 minutes after I got there.
But yet, I ended up spending 26 months in Southeast Asia, regardless of the fact that I, and millions of other people, lost interest in going there.
However, in 1972, after Apollo 17, NASA had another mission ready to go, with the rockets already built, ready to be set on the launch pad, the astronauts trained, The mission paid for.
You didn't go.
And your reason was the American public lost interest.
Now, I would have to ask you, sir, who is BSing whom?
I'd like to say I have a quick answer for you, but of course here at NASA we're always accused of BSing and we're used to that.
It was in fact the American public losing interest and of course we were at the end of funding for the manned projects to the moon and we couldn't see any reason to go back.
We had collected samples and rocks and knew quite a bit about the moon and the American public simply was not prepared to support More spending, Mr. Ecker.
Now, I'll tell you what happened... I gotta go back.
Wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
I gotta be... I gotta go back to art and take a break.
All right?
Okay.
Hold on, Don.
Don Ecker is my guest.
I don't make a good NASA guy.
I just know... I know that's about what they'd say.
Something like that.
Anyway, stay right where you are.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 19, 2001.
This is a presentation of the Coast to Coast AMX-CX-8.
Rip my lowline.
So listen well my brothers, when you hear the night wind sigh
And you see the logboats flying through the great polluted sky
There won't be no country music, there won't be no rock and roll
When they take away our country, they'll take away our soul Well it's only gonna take about a minute or so
Till the junkyards, fell the prairies, boil them smoking yellow grass fires, start to burn
And the warnings on them beer cans gonna be buried in them landfills
No deposit, no sad songs, and no return Yeah, it's only gonna take about a minute or so
Till the factories blot the sun out And you're gonna have to turn your lights on just to see
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 19, 2001.
Remember that story about the geese falling out of the sky?
That's getting strange out there.
We're monitoring a pretty weird signal on 3.39.
We'd appreciate your reports, not just during the nighttime hours, because it appears to be propagating just about everywhere, but during the daytime hours as well.
And then there's a UN report out today, and then there's Don Ecker, who's pointing out things on the moon, and I'll be damned, as I start looking at these, I do see them.
Why would a rock on the moon, where there should not be geologic activity, jump up out of a crater and roll across the face of the moon, leaving an obvious track?
Now, I certainly do see that with no problem whatsoever.
What's going on up there, anyway, or what has gone on?
Sound of a jet taking off.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 19th, 2001.
I've got to tell you about a letter I received, then we'll get back to Don Egger.
I have received a letter from somebody at Area 51.
Now, there's part of the letter that I cannot post and I have not posted it because of the restrictions placed on me by the person who sent it to me.
All I can tell you is this.
The person who sent this had information about my location.
That could only be obtained by the most exotic aircraft in the world.
More exotic than you can possibly imagine.
And, uh, I got specifics on that, but I cannot release them because of what, uh, of what I promised.
And so, instead we have released what we were told we could release, which was the body of the email, which is called Jimmy the Dog.
jimmy the dog and uh... i may get to reading it to you and the don ecker
uh... a little later in the meantime if you want to read it is on my website
right now under what's new
email jimmy the dog read that it'll blow your mind
that is i can tell you uh... from somebody at area fifty one and and by the way
the other people that have seen
before email confidants of mine agree that it is definitely legitimate area
illegitimate letter from area fifty one i don't know about being a legitimate
area but it is from somebody who obviously works up at the site
Okay.
Having said that, we now go back to Don Ecker, and the photographs we're talking about right now are also on my website.
If you go up there, www.artbill.com, click on Program Tonight's Guest Info, you'll see Nick Begich there, and then below him, Don Ecker, with the moon photographs that we are discussing as we go here.
And I must admit that without question, Without question, we have here a photograph of a rock that has apparently jumped up out of a crater and rolled across the surface of the moon.
Now, what in the world would cause a rock to jump out of a crater and roll across the face of the moon, leaving tracks like a military vehicle as it did so?
I don't think they have moonquakes.
Don, are there moonquakes?
Well, there have been some vibrations that have been detected on the moon.
The vibrations... You know, after we went up there, after Apollo went up there, we left quite a bit of scientific equipment on the surface.
One of the things that they were using this equipment for was to detect geological tremblings
and so forth.
As a matter of fact, there were some, not quakes, but actually deliberately we, the
Americans had dumped some used rocket parts into the moon and one very famous incident
was reported by the scientific equipment.
The moon rang like a bell for hours after one of these deliberate crashes.
Now whether there's actual geological activity, most NASA geologists, we don't know.
We'll tell you the moon is geologically inactive or dead.
However, things like meteorites striking the moon and so forth can be detected.
Okay.
Now this object, this so-called rock, I personally don't believe that it is a rock.
By the way, how far, there's no way for us to judge from satellite views how far that would have rolled, where the crater is versus where the rock is.
Is there any way to gauge the approximate distance?
Providing we know what the altitude was that these photographs were taken at.
This is some of the research that I'm conducting right now to try to get an idea.
And using basic high school trigonometry with some of these items answered, like the altitude and the sun position and so forth, we can determine what the distance is, what the length of this track is.
Okay, listen, one more thing on the moon and whether we went or not.
I am kind of in contact with Arthur C. Clarke in Sri Lanka, and he responded to the debate the other night by saying, of course we went to the moon.
What dummies!
We put reflectors up there, which were designed to be used from Earth and still can be, to measure the precise distance to the moon.
That's true, that's correct.
And that was Arthur C. Clarke's comment.
Yes, we bounced laser beams off of them.
Yes.
So, that would seem to end the argument.
If we didn't put them there, then who did?
I suppose somebody might argue it was done by a robot, not a man.
Well, you know, you were taking the part of a NASA spokesman before we went to break.
NASA guy, yeah.
And Art, I wanted to tell you, and the audience also, that a year ago, this past October, UPN out here in Los Angeles over a period of five or six
weeks shot a series of special reports taking a look at various aspects of the UFO phenomenon. One
of the episodes that they did I was featured in it with my lunar research that I'm
conducting right now.
Yes.
And while I was being interviewed down at the UFO magazine offices, Tammy Taylor, who was the reporter doing the story, asked me off camera if I would have any objections if they took a series of these photographs up to NASA Ames.
and spoke to some of the geologists up there.
Oh, yeah.
And I told her, no, not only do I not have any objections, but I would love the opportunity to discuss my research
and some of these photographs on camera.
Yeah.
So they went up to NASA Ames, and they spoke with Dr. Natalie Cabral.
Now, Dr. Cabral went to her supervisor to find out if NASA had any heartburn
over her being interviewed.
Yes.
And they said, no, that's fine, go ahead.
So then Tammy and the producer pulled out these photographs and began showing Dr. Cabral some of my photos.
And she looked at the photographs and inexplicably then pulled out of the broadcast, refused to be interviewed, And she would no longer take their phone call.
Really?
That is correct.
She would only then contact them through email.
And as it's stated in this UPN report, she said, well, no matter what I say to explain these photographs and how they're only natural geological processes, nothing I say will convince believers that what they're looking at is a natural process.
So, you know, when you have something like that happen, they're all set to be interviewed, go on camera, she saw some of my pictures and she pulled out.
Then I have to say, well, now that's just one of those things that make you go, hmm, you know?
Well, you know, you can imagine it would be that, Don, or you could imagine that she found out who it was, what kind of photographs they were, took a look at them, and if I were a NASA person, you know, I might say exactly the same thing.
These are all NASA photographs, sir.
I understand that, but I might look at them and say, damn, you know, this is weird, and I'm not going to be able to explain it, and I'm pretty damn sure it's a natural process, but How am I ever going to explain this?
I'm going to come out looking like a dummy and this person is going to come out looking like a hero because I can't explain what it is.
Here's the problem that I have.
My personal problem is these were all publicly funded programs.
Your tax dollar, my tax dollar, everybody's tax dollars.
Uh, paid for us to go to the moon, right?
Yes, that's right.
I mean, back in 1960 dollars, we're talking about 20 plus billion dollars.
Oh, a lot of money.
A lot of money.
To get to the moon to beat the Russians.
Yep, a lot of money.
Now, back in the 60s, let's remember all the hoopla about going to the moon.
We were going to go to the moon, we were going to set up lunar bases, we were going to carry manufacturing processes up there because there are certain things That can be done cheaper, better, more sturdy.
Oh, and listen, since then we've found water at the poles.
Big news, remember?
Big news.
Yeah.
So, we go up there a half a dozen times.
We're in this tremendous race with the Russians.
We lost astronauts.
The Russians lost astronauts.
The Russians ended up never even going to salvage their national pride.
We go a half a dozen times, inexplicably quit, had more missions that were ready to go that never did go, then we stepped back for about three or four years until Skylab.
And since then, other than going out of the solar system, we haven't done anything except in orbit.
Until... But how do you answer... Wait a minute.
Until about three, four years ago, we went back to the moon, Art.
Right, right.
The Clementine mission went back to the moon.
That's right.
A robot mission that took over two million photographs, completely remapped the entire lunar surface, and who paid for it?
Wasn't NASA.
NASA didn't go there.
The Department of Defense went there.
Super faster stuff.
Well, hey, look, now I've got to ask myself, if it's true what NASA said years ago, that we basically know everything there is to know about the moon, the moon's not interesting anymore, that's balderdash, that's not even close.
And then when we do go back, it's the military that goes back.
Now, that, you know, all those little things make me go, hmm, there's something just a little strange here.
I know, they make me go, hmm, too.
Again, answer my question.
What would be so incredible that it would not be in the best interest of NASA to splash it all over the place to get the manned space program really humming?
If there was evidence of extraterrestrial presence, or even some early Earth civilization presence that we don't know about, whatever you might imagine on the moon, why wouldn't NASA announce it to the world?
Why?
It all falls down to one very simple phrase, but one phrase that is so deep, it's literally mind-boggling.
National security.
It's the same phrase that has made the UFO subject persona non grata for 50, 60 years.
Yeah, but let's get specific.
What kind of national security?
This would be something in the deep, dark past.
These are relic-like things, unless you have argument with that.
Well, I do.
I do.
Although I have no doubt that there are relics up there, I believe that there are ongoing current processes up there, even as we speak.
There's so much about the moon that most people are not even aware of.
Let me give you just a couple of very short little things that will make you think about this.
Sure.
You know, the oldest rock ever discovered on our planet, the Earth, can only be dated back about 3.5 billion years.
Now, there's a lot of reasons for that.
The Sun, our star, Sol, is considered to be between four and a half and five billion years old.
The solar system Somewhere in that general vicinity.
Now, it's not even really known where our moon came from.
And we actually have kind of an odd setup with the moon.
You know, most other planets that have moons, Mars has two, Saturn has better than eight or nine, Jupiter has a bunch of major moons and then minor moons.
We only have one moon around our planet.
And when we went there, one of the oldest rocks discovered on the moon was actually older than our solar system.
It was dated at 5.3 billion years old.
But you know what's even more interesting, Art?
The soil that that rock was found in was a billion years older than the rock itself.
Now, this was reported in Harvard's respected astronomy journal, Sky and Telescope, back in 1973.
Wow.
Now, you've got to ask yourself, a rock that's older than the solar system, in the dirt that it's in, that's a billion years older than the rock, where did this come from?
Now, something else that was noticed, on the moon, the moon was incredibly dry, drier than our most dry desert here on the planet.
Yet in 1971, some of those instruments that we left up there indicated that a wind of water vapor stretching over a hundred miles suddenly blew across the lunar surface.
Now, you've got to ask yourself, water vapor blowing across a size of distance, a hundred miles, roughly a hundred miles, where could this have come from?
Well, the answer is we don't know, or if we do, we're not talking about it.
And when I say we, of course, I'm talking about NASA.
Now, you know, don't think that NASA is this monolithic agency where everybody that works there is in the know.
Of course not.
If this is considered as As important a national security issue as I think it is.
99.9% of the NASA people would have no idea.
Exactly.
I can go along with that.
I certainly can go along with that.
What I don't understand is, what could be the motivation, the national security motivation, for keeping this a secret?
Well, why do you believe, and I mean, you've been doing UFO stories for many years now.
What is the reasoning behind the secrecy of that?
It all falls in the same thing.
Back in 92, I broke a story on CNN concerning the space shuttle STS-48.
And that famous video of the UFO seen over the limb of the Earth and suddenly it makes a dramatic right angle turn.
Yes.
Something seems to shoot at it.
Yes.
Now, I was told shortly after that broadcast on CNN that i had really and a lot of people back in washington
that that video when when i got my hands on that video and cnn ran it
the next day the channel that that had been being down to earth on had
been encrypted later nasa spokespersons
uh... like jim oberg one on the answer well you know the reason that the
channel now is encrypted is to protect protect medical privacy of the
astronauts and what have you You know, I remember that.
But I also remember what NASA said it was.
Ice crystals.
Yeah, which were being pushed around by positioning jets.
Right.
Right?
There's only a couple of things wrong with that.
What?
Art.
And I pointed out what was wrong with it on the air, and was accused of coming on the TV show to sell magazines by Uber.
Number one, in a zero-G environment.
And I have videos here.
As a matter of fact, I have a number of videos that demonstrate this clearly.
If you have debris or junk, for example, in the bay of the space shuttle, and you open up the bay, you'll see this stuff float up.
It's in a zero-gravity environment, right?
And you'll see these little items tossing and tumbling and twisting and turning.
This object never demonstrated any of that.
It was flying in a nice, straight, lateral line across the screen.
That's true.
You see this blossoming white effect?
Now, Olberg, when he was trying to explain that, said that this was one of the Attitude thruster jets firing.
Right.
Well, I don't want to call Olberg a liar, okay?
I'll just say he was gravely mistaken.
The gas that they use The position the shuttle around is an inert gas.
Okay?
Yes.
Like, for example, it's like blowing carbon dioxide.
Anybody that's ever had a BB gun that has used the little cylinders of gas.
Sure.
You see no flash.
With that, it's just a puff of gas.
Right.
That will push the shuttle around.
But yet, whatever that flash of light was, a split second later, this projectile thing came flashing up through the screen Exactly at the position where this unidentified object had been just a split second before it made the dramatic turn.
Now, they tried to say on that broadcast that this was simply ice from a wastewater dump.
In other words, it was frozen urine when the astronauts were dumped.
Yeah, I know.
The problem with that was the water dump took place about two or three minutes after this event happened.
So you've got a lot of inconsistencies there.
I know.
All right, Jim.
Hold on.
Don, I mean.
Thank you, Jim.
Don Ecker from UFO Magazine.
Well, I don't know.
What do you all think?
We'll have the lines open after a while.
Take a look at the lunar photographs.
I'm Art Bell.
Well this is Coast to Coast Air.
I'm out.
You are my life.
You are mine.
You and I don't pretend we make love.
I can't see anymore that I'm sinking.
I'm in you.
You're in me.
I'm in you.
You're in me.
You're in me, I'm in you You're between me and you
Cause you gave me the love, love that I never had You gave me the love, the love that I never had
Thanks for watching!
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
The night featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 19th, 2001.
My guest is Don Ecker.
We're talking about moon photographs and a lot more.
We're also following a mysterious signal on 39... uh, make that 3390.
That's 3.390.
Uh, here's one of zillions that I'm getting.
It's being heard all over.
Calibrated receiver with a WaveTek 3000 signal generator.
3.390 MHz Longwire Antenna 100 and the X160 receiver.
Signal strength in the Bay Area of Santa Clara is 20 microvolts.
Wow!
As you know, that's a bunch.
And that's kind of typical of what I'm getting.
Just slamming in all over the place, whatever it is.
It's interesting.
Remember folks, listen to that signal during the day.
It's the only way we're going to get a real reading on where this might be.
I heard it during the day here in the high desert.
Which I should not have, so we'll try and figure out exactly where it's coming from.
In a moment, Don Ecker will be right back.
We'll continue talking about the moon and of course much more.
Thanks for watching.
Don't forget to subscribe.
I can't see anymore that I'm sinking.
I'm in you, you're in me, I'm in you, you're in me Cause you gave me life
You gave me the love, love that I never had You gave me the love, love that I never had
You gave me the love, love that I never had You gave me the love, love that I never had
Somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 19th, 2001.
My guest is Don Ecker.
We're talking about moon photographs and a lot more.
We're also following a mysterious signal on 39 Uh, make that 3390.
That's 3.390.
Uh, here's one of zillions that I'm getting.
It's being heard all over.
Calibrated receiver with a WaveTek 3000 signal generator.
3.390 megahertz long wire antenna 100 and the X160 receiver.
Signal strength in the Bay Area of Santa Clara is 20 microvolts.
Wow!
As you know, that's a bunch.
And that's... kind of typical of what I'm getting.
Uh, just slamming in all over the place, whatever it is.
It's interesting.
Remember, folks, listen to that signal during the day.
It's the only way we're going to get a real reading on where this might be.
I heard it during the day here in the high desert, which I should not have, so we'll try and figure out exactly where it's coming from.
In a moment, Don Ecker will be right back.
We'll continue talking about the moon and of course, much more.
Now we take you back to the night of February 19th, 2001 on ArkBell, Somewhere in Time.
Alright, I'm getting hundreds of responses on this signal.
And many are saying they hear two signals, and I agree with that.
First signal you hear, this is from West Virginia, by the way.
Uh, very, very strong in West Virginia.
Second signal following is much weaker.
It appears to be repeated over and over.
Perhaps some of your listeners involved in the digital mode can identify one or both of them.
I cannot.
It sounds digital.
That's the only reference point I can give you for it.
It sounds digital.
But, uh, I don't have the slightest idea.
And here we have the story saying it's HAARP.
HAARP denying it's HAARP.
And, uh, Bernard Eastland, Dr. Eastland, saying it might be High Pass at Fairbanks, Norwegian, or perhaps the Russians.
Interesting stuff.
Once again, here is Don Ecker, but again, Don, I hate to harp on this, pun intended, I suppose, but I just, you know, it seems to me that it would be in the national interest to announce something like this, whether it was A, a previous civilization, or B, aliens, or, I suppose, let's add one more.
Let's add a C. Something we're doing now.
But it doesn't seem like that.
Does it to you, or is that what you believe?
Well, I'm glad you asked that, Art, because I was going to try to pull you back to that.
Because during the break, I was sitting here thinking about a better answer than I gave you before the break about why the secrecy.
Three things immediately come to my mind, okay?
Sure.
Number one, about seven or eight years ago, I had a call from Dick Holtman.
Yes.
Asking me if I could assist him and Dr. Stan McDaniel.
Yes.
While McDaniel was preparing a critique of NASA in reference with the Cydonia question.
Sure.
And they asked me if I would look, if I could locate a document that they thought had been prepared for the then brand new NASA back in the early 60s.
That dealt with the peaceful pursuit of exploration of outer space.
I found the document.
It was a document prepared for the then brand new NASA by the Brookings Institute.
And in this document, among some of the people that assisted in writing this, and it's several hundred pages in length, was Margaret Mead.
Now that's a very, very famous name in anthropology.
Okay?
Yes.
And Margaret Mead, among others, pointed several things out.
That once we go to space, what happens if and when we encounter either the remnants of an extraterrestrial civilization or actual ETs?
Yes.
Their fear was, as is outlined in the Brookings document, that every culture and society on our planet, going back into our history, that has encountered a more technologically advanced culture or society ultimately ended up being destroyed and absorbed.
That is true.
And some of the items that they pointed out were when the Spanish conquistadors entered Central and South America.
What happened to those?
Actually, those wonderful, brilliant, really elevated societies.
They were all destroyed.
Yeah, you don't even have to go back that far.
Actually, there have been tribes discovered in the outback and ...in South America that have never encountered civilization.
Inevitably, they are destroyed by their brush with civilization.
So the fear was, if we encounter technologically advanced extraterrestrial society, this potentially could happen to us.
We couldn't handle it.
Well, I personally think today we could.
We've been... No, that is what Brookings said.
I mean, you're right.
But isn't there a difference?
For example, when I've set shows back on, you know, from SETI, he said, you know, if we get a signal, How would the public handle it?
It would depend on what it is.
If it was a signal that came across zillions of light years, and took a long time to get here, there would be one reaction.
If it was something hanging between here and the moon, and it was a ship out there, then you'd have Orson Welles time.
So it would be a very Different kind of reaction, depending on what the news was.
Well, I'll tell you, I would like to, before the end of the program, I would like to discuss SETI with you.
Oh, no, no, no, no, but you see how it relates, the analogy relates to what you're saying, if it's an old, if it's evidence of an old alien civilization.
Yes.
I think we could probably handle that with some disruption.
If it's something going on there now... Let's be straight, Art, let's be straight, that SETI A number of signals have been detected.
They've never been announced because they haven't been repeated.
But there have been anomalous signals that SETI has picked up.
But I wanted to get back to this secrecy thing.
Yes.
The second reason is a name that you or your listeners should be familiar with.
If you're not, I highly, highly recommend that you get his book.
His name is Paul Hill.
Who was a very, very prominent NASA scientist, engineer.
Who died.
Who is now dead, yes.
And left records.
Well, his book was written posthumously.
His daughter had it published.
But in there, prior to NASA becoming NASA, NASA was originally NACA, which is the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics.
Now, Paul Hill was not just Some egghead.
He was one of the reasons that we won the Second World War.
He was very instrumental in helping design and get built the P-47 Thunderbolt, one of our premier aircraft during the Second World War.
Right.
Now, Hill had a tremendous sighting of the UFO phenomena about the same time as the infamous Washington, D.C.
overflights in 1952.
Right.
This was very prominently reported by Captain Ed Ruppelt of Project Blue Book.
Although, at the time, he only described Paul Hill as an NACA bigwig.
Because, when Hill had this sighting, he went to his supervisors, his superiors.
The NACA director at that time was a gentleman by the name of U.L.
Dryden.
And Dryden told Paul Hill, That, number one, their official position was UFOs are non-existent.
Therefore, he could not talk about this, because if he did, he'd be out of the agency.
They made that crystal clear to Paul Hill.
Later, when NACA became NASA, the same people remained in charge with the same policy.
So, since day one, NASA's policy has been That we don't talk about UFOs, period.
That's number two.
The third thing that I thought about, while we were on break, concerned the infamous University of Colorado UFO study, also known as the Condon Committee.
Now, when the Air Force was looking, was actually shopping for a university to take over this study, and they still hadn't yet decided on who was going to run it, There was a gentleman by the name of Robert Lowe, who in a memo was discussing what some of the problems may be if this study was taken over.
One of the people that he talked to was a gentleman by the name of Louis Branscombe.
There were a number of other very prominent people in science and technology in those days that they also talked to.
But Branscombe's idea about UFOs was, look, We can't become involved with this because if they turn out to be real, we're going to look foolish.
Now, you've got to think about the scientific ethics and honesty of a position like that.
It's obvious that something has been going on for a very long time.
The bottom line is, there are actually a number of bottom lines, Art.
One is, if we acknowledge that this is real, how are we going to explain to the public 50 plus years of lying and deceit.
That's number one.
Number two, the national security considerations.
We know, I know, from my research, that for years UFOs have shown an inordinate interest in areas with nuclear facilities.
Absolutely true.
Areas where nuclear weapons are stored.
Correct.
In one very famous case that took place in the Dakotas in the mid-1970s, and it was detailed by Larry Fawcett and Barry Greenwood in their superb book, I believe it was the UFO cover-up, in their superb book, in one case a UFO entered a nuclear storage facility and actually destroyed the weapon.
They had to replace the weapon.
How did Greenwood and Fawcett discover this?
Using the Freedom of Information Act request.
The entire missile had to be replaced.
Now, if the public suddenly became aware that this was not Looney Tunes... Panic City.
Panic City.
Well, it could be Panic City.
So, really, you're suggesting then that of the three possibilities I named, previous civilization, aliens, and something that we're doing now, you'd probably say Something that is happening now.
In other words, something very contemporary.
They could talk, I think, about an ancient civilization, a find of an ancient civilization, don't you?
Just as they could in SETI, if the signal was very old and took billions of years to get here.
But if it's happening right now, and it's disabling nuclear weapons or whatever other mischief is going on, and they can't explain it, then I agree with you, they would not tell us.
We discussed what happened with NASA Ames when these photographs were taken up to Dr. Natalie Cabral, and after agreeing to go on, she looked at the photographs and they backed out.
Now, it's not up to me, or it shouldn't be up to me, to ask, you know, hey Don, why did they do that?
They should be asking, should have been asked by UPN, why are you backing out of this broadcast after you agreed to go on?
You didn't like the proof?
You didn't like the photographs?
Or what is it?
You're afraid of being embarrassed?
Well, I... Does it actually show something?
Yeah, afraid of being embarrassed, or afraid that... You know, it's a close-up of something that's interpretive, and I, as a NASA person, am never going to be able to explain it satisfactorily.
Ever.
It's just an interpretive thing, and yeah, it looks like the back of a satellite dish, or whatever, but Well, there's a big difference, Art, between not being able to look at something and say specifically what this is or what it isn't.
But it's something else to hide it behind a wall of deceit and deception, which is, in effect, what NASA has been doing for a very long time, especially with photographic evidence showing anomalies.
Well, I certainly agree.
that are not going back to the moon in all this time is extremely suspect but
then when we did go back it was the department of defense yes i like that
you you and i both know and i think probably most of the listening audience
knows that our satellite technology is beyond belief
Sure it is.
They can from thousands of miles out in orbit and photograph things the size, literally, of a pack of cigarettes.
I know.
Laying on the ground.
I know.
Now, how many of those lunar photographs that you or anybody else has really taken a look at show that clarity?
You never see it.
You never see it, Art.
No, it's true.
You don't.
And there's a reason for that.
Now, Getting to what the reason is is something else.
What are they not showing the public?
And I've had testimony from a number of people that I've talked to that have seen some of these photographs that I think pretty much explain what that is.
The real high-res photographs?
The high-resolution photographs, that's correct.
No, folks, he's right about showing something the size of a pack of cigarettes, reading license plates, all that kind of thing.
They can do that.
I, on a regular basis, monitor the NOAA satellites, Constellation of Low Earth Orbiting Satellites, for weather.
And they intentionally detune the resolution on those photographs so that you can see the weather but you can't see much else.
Occasionally they've had it miscalibrated and you can see buildings, you can see all kinds of things, but they intentionally miscalibrated.
And Don Ecker is saying they've intentionally miscalibrated the photographs That are released to the public.
And he's right about the resolution capability.
So, yeah, I guess you could suggest, and you are, that they are hiding something.
Something that we could not digest.
Something that would ruin our institutions, ruin our religious faith or beliefs.
I don't know.
Or something just related to National security, or maybe a secret perpetuated just because it's perpetuated.
In other words, there was a reason 30 years ago to hide it.
Maybe no reason today, except you don't want to admit you told a lie.
Or all of the above.
Or all of the above.
All of the above.
You know, what you mentioned about the possibility of disrupting organized religion is also, I think, Uh, an important consideration.
This Brookings document that I located, Art, they discussed in the document two groups of peoples that would be adversely affected by the admission that we uncovered extraterrestrial life.
One group was engineers and scientists.
They would be, according to the wording in the document, devastated.
The second group of people that would be electrified, that would be amazed, and who knows what else, were fundamentalist religious peoples.
Now, they didn't specify Muslims, Christians, Jews, but anyone with a fundamentalist bent.
Now, I've always been somewhat amazed at that, because I would think that this would only show the true glory of a creator.
That there would be life strewn across the cosmos.
But, uh, apparently, uh, they felt at that time, 1961, that, uh, it would somehow disturb the status quo as far as religions were concerned.
Well, suppose there was definitive information with regard to creation that didn't quite gel with, uh, Genesis.
Well, you know, there might be a problem there.
It's funny you should mention that because in the very next issue of UFO Magazine, we are taking a look at Darwinism and, as we're calling it, the death of Darwinism.
There seems to be a design of the human being, that human beings were designed.
Now make of that what you will.
Darwin's Black Box was a book that, in the last year or two, has been published.
The author's name is, I forget his first name, his last name is Behe, where he shows in this book, Darwin's Black Box, how the human form and the human structure he believes was designed.
Now, if you go that far, if you take that step, I'll tell you, you're really opening up a can of worms with The public today, because what you're indicating, or what you're saying is that the human race, Homo sapiens sapien, somewhere along the line was genetically engineered.
Now, whether that was by a deity, a supreme deity, or perhaps some point in the last several million years, visitors that may have come to this planet, we don't really have a true can of worms.
That's a pretty important question.
Uh, you know, they just finished unraveling the human genome.
Yes.
And, really, it's interesting because they may have opened their own can of worms.
The genome was not as complicated as they thought.
Didn't take as many years as they thought.
However, now that it's all unraveled, they're suggesting that the real magic may not be in the specific genome, but the interaction between the various genes.
In a human being's makeup.
And that that interaction may be where all the real magic occurs.
Now, if that's true, they've got combinations beyond all ability to calculate.
So the whole thing may be sort of up in smoke.
Blown sky high, if you will.
Hold on, Don.
We'll be right back.
There's more coming.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 19th, 2001.
I gave you love, I thought that we had made it to the top.
I gave you all I have to give, why did it have to go?
You've blown it all sky high by telling me a lie without a reason why.
So...
I'm sorry.
done done
8 the
one the
the the
Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's program originally aired February 19th, 2001.
Good morning from the high desert.
Don Ecker of UFO Magazine is my guest.
We're discussing moon photographs and a whole lot more.
If you'd like to join us, I'm going to open the line shortly and let you ask Don questions.
I presume you've been to my website avenue?
www.artbell.com Take a look at the photographs, particularly the one of the tracked rock.
The rock that jumped up out of a crater and rolled across the face of the moon.
And then the others, you let me know what you think.
Sometimes when I look, I say, hey, rocks.
Other times when I've got somebody like Don Ecker, Richard Hoagland, who says, hey, look a little closer, will you?
And I do, and then all of a sudden I see what they see.
And then, I'm not so sure anymore.
Now we take you back to the night of February 19th, 2001, on Arkbell, Somewhere in Time.
And now, we take you back to the night of February 19th, 2001, on Arkbell, Somewhere in Time.
Back into the night we go with a crack of lightning and a rumble of thunder and Don Ecker on the phone.
Hi, Don.
There you are.
We're still here.
Okay.
That's always a good observation.
We're still here.
We are still here even though things are getting pretty strange.
Well, before we do, let me mention one of the other photographs on there and give you a little background behind it, and then, sure, let's go ahead and do that.
All right.
Give me a chance like everybody else is going to do.
They're going to all race right back up to the site now, so let me do the same thing and race back up to the site.
It's www.artbell.com, and I'll lead you right through it, folks, if you're going up there now.
Open your browser.
Go to my website, and when you get there, you click on Program.
And then tonight's guest info, then you go down to Don Ecker's name and you'll see moon photos.
Click on those.
Which one do you want me to go to, Don?
Mare Crisium.
Let's see.
Mare Crisium.
Here it is.
I've got it.
And a big circle.
Yes.
Around what looks to me like rock star.
Right.
Look to the side of the circle about 9 o'clock.
Oh, yes.
You can see an arrow.
I see the arrow.
Now, back in 1953, the science editor for the New York Herald Tribune newspaper was a fellow by the name of John J. O'Neill, okay?
Now, in July of 1953, O'Neill, who was an amateur astronomer, went outside, set up his telescope, and was doing some lunar observations.
And Mericrystium was the area that he was observing.
And much to his surprise, as he was looking at Mericrystium, on the photograph where you see the circle, off to the side, he saw what he described as a bridge, which was spanning the rim of the crater.
Now, he observed this for several hours.
And was shocked to see it.
He had never seen it before.
And all his lunar observing, he had never seen anything like this.
Why is that just not a crevasse?
I mean, why do you interpret that to be a bridge?
Well, for one reason, it's over 12 miles in length.
It's a straight line.
And if you blow the picture up, and you can on your website, because I scan these at pretty high DPI.
That's right, I can.
You can see sunlight streaming beneath the end of the bridge.
It's spanning over the rim of the crater.
Right.
Now, let me give you the rest of the background on this.
So, O'Neill was shocked to see this.
And he did something that was very, very ethical.
What many people in his position would not have done.
He reported it to the American Astronomical Society, or the Lunar and Planetary Observers.
And as he expected, Within the next month, he was attacked by a number of astronomers that said, hey, you're crazy, you're full of blueberry muffins, there's no such thing up there.
However, the attack ceased a month later when two British authorities, world-renowned, verified his observations.
Dr. H.P.
Wilkins and Patrick Moore, who's probably one of the most famous living astronomers today.
They both told him that, hey, or they both told the public, Hey, there really is something there.
Now, how it got there is anybody's guess, but what's even more astonishing with this photograph is if you look at the crater where the bridge is, you follow the rim around, you'll come to another arrow between the 9 and 10 o'clock position on the rim of the crater.
I see.
Look right underneath the arrow.
You will see a structure there, Art.
That the first time I saw it, about seven or eight years ago, it literally took my breath away.
I call it the Castle Wall.
It has all the appearance of being artificially constructed, but what's really odd about this, it has something extending out of the wall, like on a spar or a beam, and on the very end of it is a round ball.
Now, what that is, is anybody's guess.
The person that First pointed this out to me was a fellow who had years of lunar observation under his belt, a man by the name of Jim Sylvan.
And I, over the years, have done a number of programs and interviewed Jim about this.
And he had a very interesting story he told me about a year and a half ago.
He had taken this photograph down to a presentation given by Admiral Alan Shepard before Shepard passed away.
And Shepard was giving a talk.
I don't recall if Jim had told me.
It was after Shepard had written a book or something.
But at any rate, at the end of this presentation, he went up to get Shepard to autograph a photograph for him.
And all these people were in there.
They were talking to Shepard.
He was giving autographs away.
Jim got up to him.
Shook his hand, told him he had been a big fan, and really, really admired what Shepard had done, and you know, his last mission, which was a lunar mission, and he asked him if he would sign a lunar photograph that he had.
He pulled out this picture, handed it to Shepard, Shepard pulled his pen out, began to write his name, and Jim pointed to this structure that I just told you about, and said, by the way, sir, can you tell me what this is?
Shepard looked down at the photograph.
Apparently, according to Jim Sylvan, he recognized this thing.
Jim told me that he turned white, handed the picture back to him, turned around and walked away.
Now, that's an anecdotal story.
I was not there to see it.
But I know Jim Sylvan.
I've known him for years.
I've never known Sylvan to lie about anything.
And seeing this photograph, which incidentally was taken on the Apollo 16 mission, I've got to ask myself, just what in the world is that art?
I don't have any answer, and I just have no answer, and I might imagine on his part, I'm playing the devil's advocate for you here, that when it was pointed out, when the specific thing was pointed out, he went to himself, oh God, you know, another one of these, and just declined to sign.
Well, I mean, anything is possible.
I mean, he might have thought, well, you know, this fellow wants me to give weight to his claim about this object, so I'm not going to sign it.
Well, no, actually he didn't.
He simply asked him if he could explain what that structure was.
You can see very clearly the shadow that this spar, or this beam, is casting across the base of that structure.
Now, when I showed this on UPN, Tammy Taylor, the reporter, did the same thing.
She said, well, I'm going to play the devil's advocate.
How do I know that's not a rock?
Well, when you look at it, it shows all the appearance of being artificially constructed.
But, once again, I mean, hey, I'll be the first person to admit this.
Until we go back there, go to that place on the Mericrystium crater, Touchdown, get out, and really take a look at it.
We're not going to know.
Or, until NASA or the Department of Defense releases the high-resolution photographs they have, because you know darn well they have that photograph.
Well, I do.
I mean, your argument there is very good.
We have incredible abilities now with our K-8 series of satellites, and who knows what has come after them that I don't know about, to look at very tiny things here on Earth.
And so we can certainly do the same thing on the moon.
And then also, you're right, why would our Defense Department send a probe to the moon?
Why would they do that?
To do what?
Well, you've got to ask yourself, after 25 years and 20 billion 1960s dollars, we don't go to the moon.
And when we do go back, it's the Department of Defense that goes back, Art.
And take over 2 million photographs.
Incidentally, how many of those have you seen online?
Not many, actually.
And completely re-map and re-photograph the entire moon.
Now... For what?
Exactly.
What were they looking for?
I mean, the only reason that makes sense to me... And when I was in Vietnam, I was involved with intelligence gathering.
Why do you go back and re-photograph a place several times?
You want to see what, if anything, changed about this.
Is, for example, are there new buildings in there?
Have they moved trucks or tanks in there?
Are they setting up a facility for troops or whatever?
All of that would be a really big problem.
Any of that would be a big problem on the moon.
All right, let's take a few calls and bounce things around.
First time caller line.
You are on the air with Don Ecker.
Hi.
Yeah, hi.
This is Bob.
Hi, Bob.
Hi.
I've got a question.
For a period of time when I was in Hawaii, and I think this was Maui, quite one of the islands, there's an area that's called President Kennedy's Head.
I don't know if you're familiar with it, but there's an area you come to, and you look through this tube.
You have to look through the tube, because if you're just looking off toward the horizon, you don't see anything.
But if you look through this tube, the tube takes you to one specific point.
Uh, of a rock face.
And when you look at the one part that you see through the tube, you see this natural occurrence of what you would swear was somebody having chiseled President Kennedy's head out of the face of the rock.
And I'm not talking about... I hear you.
...it reminds you of.
I mean, it looks like it.
I hear you.
In other words, enough rocks in enough places planet-wide or moon-wide, and eventually you find all kinds of things that look like stuff.
Absolutely.
Yeah, I'm with you, and Don's really with you, too.
Yeah, I have no disagreement with that.
That's true.
But then you come across something like that photograph with the two, according to NASA, rolling boulders that rolled up and out of basically holes in the ground and left a very distinctive treadmark behind them.
I don't know about you, Bob.
Maybe you can explain that.
That, to me, simply does not make sense.
My entire point of working on this book and working with these photographs, researching this story, is to try to get some answers out.
Because up to this point, I think it's very safe to say that in matters like this, our Agency, NASA, supposedly the most open federal bureaucracy in American government has been less than forthcoming about not only this but a lot of other things.
Maybe Bob can answer some of the questions, the harder ones we've been pondering.
Bob, why do you think we haven't been back to the moon in 30 years?
Well, you know, I think that there's a lot of people Who think that we've wasted our money, and that politically it's not the expedient thing to do so that the politicians don't move forward.
I mean, in other words, why is it that we don't fund looking for near-Earth objects that could destroy the Earth?
That's another good question.
All right, why would the Department of Defense send a satellite to the moon after we had been there and declared it uninteresting, if that's why we haven't been back for 30 years?
You know, I thought about that as you were talking about it, and I'm thinking, What is there that somebody else, like another nation, like maybe the USSR, like Russia, could have done over the past 30 years that might have affected or might have involved the moon that maybe we didn't know all about?
Maybe over the last 10 years we learned more about it?
Well, let me address that, Bob.
This nation, the American government, has in geosynchronous orbit, covering the entire span of the globe, a series of It's called the DSP-1, okay?
That satellite continuously scans all parts of the globe looking for, among other things, ICBM launches.
It can detect everything from optical light to x-rays.
I don't know if you recall back in the late 1970s or right around 1980, There was some speculation that South Africa set off an atomic device.
I remember.
You remember that?
Yep.
That was detected by the DSP-1 satellite.
Now, my point in mentioning this is, had the former Soviet Union, now the CIS, had they had a manned mission that went to the moon, we would have known about it.
If no one else would have known about it, the Department of Defense, the NSA, and the Central Intelligence Agency would have known about it.
Definitely.
But who's to say that they didn't know about it, and they still needed to send this reconnaissance craft to the moon, but they're not going to tell us that?
Well, if the Russians would have gotten up there, do you seriously believe that they would not have trumpeted it to the whole world?
Depends on what they were doing.
Well, just to get there is quite an accomplishment.
And I would have to say, and let's not lose sight of the fact, there are a heck of a lot of other countries around the world that would probably have talked about this.
Right now, China.
Communist China is working feverishly to get a manned space program going.
The Japanese are.
The Japanese are talking about going to the moon.
It's going to be very interesting in the next three to five years to find out if the Japanese make it or not.
Well, that is very interesting because Japanese don't have the same sort of religious faith concerns about revelation of others that we do.
Has that occurred to anybody?
You know what's so hard for me in looking at all of this is that with all the goings-on and everything that we see from day to day, I say somewhere there is the smoking gun.
In fact, there should be hundreds or thousands of smoking guns.
You can watch America's Funniest Home Videos and you pick up little pieces of things that nobody ever would have thought that somebody could have caught on tape, but because there's There's so much information gathering, and we get so close, but we never get all the way there.
And it's been broadcast for a good ten plus years.
Don't lose sight of all the television programs in the last ten years that made this subject a mainstay.
Programs like Hard Copy, programs like A Current Affair, programs like Unsolved Mysteries.
And the bottom line is, The second you put UFO on the label, it's basically consigned to the round file by the mainstream media.
You know, back in 1989, my very first public appearance on this subject was on Larry King Live in connection with the sightings that were taking place in the USSR in the city of Voronezh.
Okay?
Yes.
This made such a splash in the western press that all the major networks covered this story because TASS reported it.
You know, like I stated on King's program, TASS is not known, or was not known, for its sense of humor.
No.
But yet, every major media outlet that covered this story, Art, covered it with a smirk and their tongue planted firmly in cheek.
This subject, it doesn't matter what This subject is about, it has never been traded respectfully.
Now, there's a reason for that.
And the reason can be plainly traced back to January of 1953.
And if we have time, I'd be happy to talk about it, but this has been a plan that's been in operation since 53, and there's a very, very definite MO behind it.
Well, we'll have time after the top of the hour, Don.
I've tasted some of that myself.
Wrote a book called The Coming Global Superstorm, went on the Today Show and got knocked around for it.
Yes.
And then a year later, all of a sudden, it's all over the mainstream press.
CNN today running stories warning how awful the weather is going to be getting, that coastal cities are going to be inundated.
All of a sudden, it's breaking all over the place.
So, I've had a taste of that, kind of getting laughed at.
Drugs of humor.
You know, I've had it all.
Believe me, I've had it all.
So I know the press does do that.
Hold on, Don.
Don Ecker from UFO Magazine is my guest, and he's certainly right about the press.
And the UFO label brings the same kind of chuckle at the end, even if they treat the beginning of the story fairly seriously.
They end it with a laugh, which means that you're supposed to be laughing, too.
Well, Some of this may not be a laughing matter.
A lot of it may not be a laughing matter.
So, keep an open mind, folks, and stay tuned.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 19th, 2001.
Far, we've been traveling far.
Without a home.
But not without a star.
Free.
Only want to be free.
We're hardly close.
Hang on to a dream Ooh, you can dance, you can dive, having the time of your
life Ooh, see that girl, watch that scene, dig in the band and
scream you
Looking out for a place to go.
Where they play the right music.
Getting in the swing.
Where the red and white music, came in swinging, you come to look for a change.
Anybody could be that guy.
Night is young and the music's high.
With a bit of rock music, everything's fine.
You're in the mood for a dance.
Oh, when you get the chance.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 19, 2001.
Don Ecker from UFO Magazine is my guest.
We're discussing all kinds of things.
Lots of lunar anomaly photographs for you to see on the website at www.artbell.com.
There's also a letter from an Area 51 employee that I regard as absolutely genuine.
We'll cover that tomorrow night, but it's on the website tonight.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
on premier radio networks.
Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 19th, 2001.
Music.
Back into the night.
Don Ecker is my guest.
He's been researching UFOs for years and much more.
If you have a question for him, this would be a good hour for you to get through.
Don, you're back on the air again.
All right.
When is your book going to be out, Don?
Well, we're hoping it's going to be out later this year.
But you know, when you're talking about items like this, about the moon, about the UFO subject in general art, what we're really talking about is Items of national security, and where national security is involved, one can never be sure of what the truth is.
You know, I just had pointed out to me that going all the way back to the very beginning of our space race, back when we were still launching Atlas rockets off, one of the first missions that was sent up, the public was told it was a weather satellite, when in fact it was an early prototype of a spy satellite.
These kind of things, the public is continuously being lied to about items that affect national security.
And what could be more potentially destructive to national security than the fact that we have encountered someone from somewhere else?
You've got to admit, if nothing else, that that would cause a lot of people in government Very high people to raise their eyebrows and be very concerned about that.
It certainly would.
Here's George who writes, isn't it possible, Don, that the top of the item on the uphill side of the track fell off, referring now to the rolling rock, and rolled downhill and made that track?
Heating and cooling can cause boulders to crack.
I hope you have time to ask about it.
Well, I do.
Is it possible?
Well, I guess I would have to say it's possible.
Is it probable?
I would have to go with this, along with what NASA said.
That these objects rolled up and out of the crater.
If it would have been something I think that would have been that easily explained, NASA would have been very quick to point that out.
Because even with what they've said here, it basically begs more questions than it answers.
Alright.
Um, back to the lines.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Don Ecker.
Good morning.
Yeah, how you doing this morning, Art and Guy?
Um, uh, my questions are, uh, basically with the, uh, probably propulsion units within our, uh, on Earth, like, uh, pulse detonation.
I'm not even following you, caller.
I'm sorry.
You're asking about propulsion?
What I'm asking is if, uh, Guy has any information that he can provide to us, uh, pertaining to the, uh, pulse detonation engine that, uh, is being tested.
As well as any information you may have concerning Admiral Emmons' work on the magnetic field engine that has cooled several thousand degrees Kelvin and basically is an anti-gravity device that many people are seeing.
Alright, we'll ask about that.
Anti-gravity, what do you know about that?
Any research that you Know of that's going on?
Oh, sure.
Not more than about a year or so ago.
There were some experiments that were taking place in Europe, where a type of magnetics was employed that neutralized gravity.
I'm trying to remember now if that was... I don't think... Sweden or Norway?
Yeah, it didn't neutralize gravity.
I believe that they detected a weight change In the objects being... No, I'm talking about within this gravity field, they were actually able to suspend large, heavy objects.
I remember a couple of objects that were, in fact, suspended.
I don't know if they were large, heavy objects, but they did suspend a couple.
I remember that from Europe, too.
He asked about a pulse detonation... It was in Finland, as a matter of fact.
Finland.
That was it, right.
Yeah.
A pulse detonation engine.
I know very little about that.
I do know that trails from craft that were supposedly powered by this type of engine have been sighted.
A number of people have taken photographs that look like donuts on a rope.
Very unusual contrail that these craft left behind.
And apparently, crafts that are still, you know, basically hiding behind a rather tall security classification.
So, as far as anything more than that, I know very little.
Okay.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Don Ecker and Art Bell.
Good morning.
Good morning, gentlemen.
Hi.
Good morning.
Yeah, I was wondering, during a lunar eclipse about two years ago, Up on the northern hemisphere, just say northeast of the Sea of Tranquility, as the sun was coming back across the limb, I caught a really hellacious reflection.
And it wasn't the sun spilling into a crater, it was an outright reflection.
Any idea what that could have been?
Oh, many people see those, don't they, Don?
Yeah, they're basically called translunar phenomena.
I wish I could answer with authority what those things are.
This is part of the research that I've been involved in.
Are you online?
Can you go on the web?
I can tomorrow.
Okay, I would suggest that you put into a search engine something like Google.
Put into the search engine NASA Technical Report 277.
It's up on the web.
This is the report that was prepared for NASA during the Apollo program that details 400 years of these types of occurrences that actually go back in history much, much further than 400 years.
But these are actual events that NASA's catalog.
We're talking about hundreds and hundreds of events.
And you're going to see that this was something that was not nearly as unusual as you might have been led to believe initially.
Because when I saw that, Hoagland immediately came to mind.
And second of all, I hate to be the smart aleck in the crowd, but it was the Velas that discovered that eruption off South Africa.
Who?
The Velas.
V-E-L-A.
They were built by TRW.
Not DSP?
No, sir.
Those were the next generation.
Well, DSP actually has been in operation since the early 70s.
One of the people that used to work at Aerojet, a gentleman at That I've, over the years, have interviewed several times, was a fellow by the name of Lee Graham, who basically made a nuisance out of himself with Freedom of Information Act requests about the DSP spy satellite.
Oh yeah.
And one of the things that Graham discovered was, he was trying to prove that the DSP could detect unidentified flying objects within the Earth's atmosphere.
Discovered that back in the early 70s, the DSP was picking up, was identifying meteorites that flew into the Earth's atmosphere.
So, I'm not going to argue that it wasn't the DSP that detected that flash off of South Africa, but that was my understanding.
Okay, well, thank you so much, gentlemen, and good morning to you both.
Thank you very much for the call, and take care.
First time caller on line, your turn.
I just wanted to, I have a, kind of a two-part question, and it's related to Mars.
Is that okay if I ask that question?
Sure.
Okay.
First of all, Don, when do you think we would probably send a manned mission to Mars?
And the second question would be, would it be a repeat of sending the manned missions to the Moon?
We'd watch them more closely this time, obviously, but do you think they're going to pull the wool over our eyes again?
Okay, back in the early and mid-1980s, it was not well known here in the West.
But NASA and the Soviet Space Agency were tentatively planning the possibility of a manned mission to Mars sometime after 2012-2013, somewhere in that area.
And along with those plans, Russia prepared, the Soviet Union at that time, it was still the USSR, prepared two probes.
To go to Mars.
They were Phobos 1 and Phobos 2.
And I, just through the purest luck, ended up being advised about this by a very good friend of mine, a gentleman that you may be aware of, a fellow by the name of Zachariah Sitchin.
Yes, I read his book.
Sitchin wrote a book called, well he wrote a number of books, but the book in particular was a book titled Genesis Revisited.
And in that particular book he talked about One of the Phobos craft that encountered a huge anomaly while it was in orbit around Mars.
Now, just about that time, Soviet, former Soviet Air Force Colonel Dr. Marina Popovich was coming over to the United States.
And Dr. Popovich had formerly been married to General Pavel Popovich, Who was the first Soviet cosmonaut to rendezvous with another craft while in orbit back in, I think it was 1962.
And I was going down to Arizona where she was going to be speaking at a conference with the intention of interviewing her.
I ended up doing that over a two day period.
And she told me a lot of very amazing stuff.
She was over here primarily talking about UFO events that were happening in the former USSR.
And during this two days, it was on the second day that I asked her about the Soviet Phobos mission.
Now Popovich was absolutely shocked that I knew anything about it.
And as I was to discover, the Russians launched these probes in July of 1988.
NASA was a very large part of this mission.
As a matter of fact, all the telemetry coming back from the probes were being fed through Goldstone.
And NASA had a number of scientific experiments on board the Russian craft.
Now, as these two craft took off, the Russians lost their first probe, Phobos 1, roughly a month or so after liftoff.
They blamed that loss on a combination of both computer and human error.
However, the second craft got to Mars.
And it was in January of 89 when it took up an orbiting position around Mars.
Now, they were doing a lot of things.
They were taking photographs.
This particular craft also had on board a very powerful Russian laser.
Very powerful.
Now, what the plan was, was that NASA and the Russians hoped that if they, in fact, put together a joint mission after the beginning of this century, the 21st century, that they would use one of the Martian moons Actually, a moonlet, Phobos, as a base.
The plan was to send a craft out with the cosmonauts and astronauts on board, dock on the Phobos moon, and then use that as a stepping stone to go down to Mars.
Now, one of the things they wanted to find out is, what exactly is Phobos made out of?
You know, if you go back and check the history, you'll find out that as late as the 19th Late 50s, early 1960s, there was a heck of a controversy over whether Phobos may have been a huge artificial object.
It was the Russians that originally brought this idea to the forefront because of the very peculiar orbit that the Martian moonlet Phobos is in.
It's in a retrograde orbit.
And some very other odd things about Phobos and the other moonlet, Deimos.
Now, the craft was to go into orbit around the moon, Phobos.
The Russians wanted to fire the laser into the moonlet, analyze the gases.
The NASA experiments on board were going to be flown down to the surface of Phobos itself.
Now, while all this was going on, suddenly something happened that was totally unexpected.
Phobos was taking a series of photographs.
When something came into the picture, it took one final photograph when this object struck their craft.
It turned it into a spinner.
Now, that's beyond any argument.
That happened.
The Russians themselves said that something struck their craft.
Actually, didn't they?
They literally got a shot of this thing just as it was about to impact, didn't they?
Yes.
Yes.
I was able to get that picture from Popovich.
She was going back to Russia.
Was coming back in June.
This took place around April.
Do you have that picture now?
Oh yes.
Can you send it?
Would you send that to me?
I could, sure.
Could you?
Sure.
I've really wanted that photo for a long time.
You mean you've never seen it?
We, as a matter of fact, carried that picture in UFO Magazine.
Fire it to me.
I will do that.
Alright.
So let me get back to the story.
Now, the craft According to the Russians, was struck by something.
They ruled out being hit by a meteorite.
The only thing left was this huge anomaly.
Now, the Russians claimed at Glavcosmos, their unmanned space center, that this object was... Are you ready for this?
25 kilometers in length and one and a half kilometers in diameter.
That computes to one mile in diameter 15 and a half miles long.
This was just unbelievable.
Now, after I showed that photo for the first time, as a matter of fact, it was on CNN again, I expected that we would get a lot of questions from news media around the country and around the world.
It was basically virtually ignored.
And this was an actual Soviet Russian photograph of a 15 and a half mile anomaly.
Now, what made this anomaly So unusual, Art.
It was like a huge, long cigar.
I mean, it's obvious that it was not a rock or an asteroid or something like that.
It was a very long cigar right off of the Phobos moon itself.
Now, some of the skeptics later on tried to say that it was a computer glitch in the data stream is what caused this thing.
But the photograph was taken in the infrared.
And both the Moonlet Phobos and this craft are virtually unmistakable.
I'll be happy to send that to you tomorrow.
Thank you.
I'll get it up on the website.
So, the question is, what would that have been?
Well, Sitchin, among others, have suggested that not only the Moon, but Mars has an operating base of some type being utilized by visitors from somewhere else.
And I guess we won't truly know until we go back there.
Carl, is that what you were curious about with regard to Mars?
How's that for an answer?
I'm familiar with that story.
Like I said, I've read Genesis Revisited.
I've read most of Zechariah Sitchin's books.
But I was curious, when the U.S., when a stable mission does end up going to Mars, will the government pull the wool over our eyes again?
I mean, you, Don Ecker, and Rich Hoagland, They're going to be watching that very closely, because, I mean, they want to make sure everything's done, you know, tit-for-tat, making sure they're not being fooled again.
So that's basically my question.
Your opinion would be, what would they, you know... Well, if we go to Mars with a manned mission... A big if.
We're not even going back to the Moon right now, much less Mars.
Let's not forget that between the United States and the former Soviet Union, there have been well over 30 attempts to reach the Red Planet.
Out of all those attempts, only eight have actually gotten there.
Right.
So, you know, let's face it, it's not good odds.
And if we send somebody, I would imagine it won't be until well after perhaps 2020, maybe 2030.
Did you see Mission to Mars?
Yes.
Were you surprised as I was?
I mean, NASA was a very close consultant on that film.
I know.
And didn't it surprise you Uh, that not only was the face the main feature of the story about Mars itself, but it was the face with relation to aliens.
I mean, I just, I almost, I try to picture the NASA consultant, uh, finally figuring out what this was all about.
How could NASA possibly have agreed to consult on a film that not only would be about the face, But about aliens.
Well, the only thing that makes sense, Art, is that they... Now, I don't know this one way or the other, but they must have gotten a huge consulting fee.
You know, I wanted to point out that over the last 10 years... You mean for enough money it's okay?
Well, sure.
Over the last 10 years, Congress has slashed the budget of NASA down below the bone.
The only way they're still flying today, and this is a dirty little secret that most people don't want to talk about, they are flying today because they're getting money from the Department of Defense.
I don't know how often you've noticed, or many people have noticed, but NASA over the years has been going very black.
All right, hold it right there.
You're right about NASA going black.
We'll be right back.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 19th, 2001.
The Coast to Coast AM performance is presented by the New York City Opera House.
Bye!
She's got better days aside.
It's just easy, to unleash you, ha!
Ha!
Ha!
They are the ones who are going to win.
So you think you're a Romeo, Sang a party in a sixty show, Well, take the long way home.
Take the long way home.
If you're the joke of the neighborhood, Or should you care if you're being joked, Well, take the long way home.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 19th, 2001.
My guest is Don Ecker.
And by the way, that signal on 3.39 is still there, and therefore I'm going to start the show in repeat in the next hour with the first hour.
So we can get that out to get more people.
I want to know what that signal is and where it's coming from.
We'll get back to Don Ecker in a flash.
Weird stories on the radio?
Must be Coast to Coast AM with George Norring.
You know, when I started doing this radio program, Jesse, half of the subjects I was really into, the paranormal, the unusual, ghosts and things like that.
The conspiracy stories, you know, I was a little weary about these, other than the Kennedy assassination.
And all of a sudden, I woke up.
I simply woke up.
Is that what happened with you two?
Yeah.
That's when I really started to say, what is going on here?
And I started to truly then investigate 9-11.
And today, I don't believe the government story of 9-11.
Here's the three options.
Either we knew about it and allowed it to happen, or we knew about it and participated in it, or these were the dumbest food that could have ever been in charge of our country who
could have all this pre-information and I started to think they knew it was
going to happen they either a part of it or they allowed it to there's no doubt
in my mind now we take you back to the night of February 19th 2001 on our
fell somewhere in time you
back now to Don Ecker who is the UFO magazine guy and I You know, we haven't even mentioned that.
If people want UFO Magazine, Don, how do they get it?
Well, there's a couple of ways.
Number one, they can click on my link on your website at www.ufomag.com.
They can also call toll-free.
And we've done over the years a number of specials on the moon.
We have two primary lunar issues right now that we wanted to make available because I was going to be doing this program.
And if you're interested in either of those because there's basically they're chock full of information.
The first one we did was back in March, April of 1995.
God, I forget now.
Volume 10, number 2, and much more recently our Moon Secrets issue is volume 14, number
7.
Either of those are available.
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We'll ship it right out to you.
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So, you know, just for Art and just tonight.
Very kind of you.
All right, here we go again.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Don Ecker.
Good morning, Art, and good morning, Don.
Good morning.
My question was, the anomaly that we see on the photos with the stone that is rolling across the lunar surface, is that anything similar to what they see in the Mojave Desert?
with very large stones that are traveling across the surface of the desert without being moved by machinery.
And also I have another question for her when we're done with this one.
All right.
Okay, now those particular cases you're talking about that take place out in the Mojave,
I know a lot of people over the years have researched those.
The research that I'm familiar with concerning the Mojave Desert moving stones is that when it rains out there,
and it does rain, not often, but when it does, it rains a lot,
there is some type of process that have caused these stones to move because of the water action.
On the moon, of course, there's no weather, there's no moisture to speak of, and it doesn't explain how these things came up and out of a crater.
And when you look at the larger of those two objects, I am convinced, number one, that is not a rolling stone or rock, that it is some type of equipment.
What makes me think that is when you look very close, you can almost see the axles coming out of the side of that, and the very unusual tread that's leaving in the lunar dust.
In fact, I can see that.
So the correlation, it's not similar with, it's not water moving the stones on the lunar surface, and so the action would not be the same as what we're seeing in the Mojave Desert then?
That's my speculation, that's correct.
Even as large as the stones are that are being moved out in the Mojave Desert?
Right.
Okay.
Alright, thank you very much.
Oh, that's right, you had a question.
Yes, I do.
I've also heard of Uh, UFO abduction insurance, and I've heard it mentioned by Stanton Friedman, and I was wondering if you'd ever heard of that art?
Oh, yes, of course.
Oh, you have?
Yes.
Is it... Yes, I've collected twice.
Oh, you have?
Sure.
Do you know where I would be able to find that?
It's worth a million dollars now in America.
No, I'm kidding you.
No, I've heard of it, but I don't think anybody has actually collected yet.
Okay, I mean, is there something I could... Is there a document or something I could purchase that I could give to my father?
He's a big... You want abduction insurance law?
It's not a serious pursuit, but it is a... No, no, no, no, it's real.
I'm sorry, I'm not exactly sure who's doing it, but Lloyd's will do anything, so you can always talk to Lloyd's.
Okay.
All right, sir.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Don Ecker.
Hi.
You're cutting out, Don.
on records and uh...
the checker you must have taken some uh...
from players from uh...
which are open uh... but but but but but but but long answers all right
well you know i took all your cutting out on uh...
i i i hear you i i i try to be as uh... as specific as i can about this
but you know this is a particular subject that there
are many many facets to it Art, I'm going to change phones here.
All right.
Is that better?
Oh, yes.
Okay.
This is a very complex subject, and there's so much to it that, you know, especially in a program like this, it's really tough to... I wonder if I might go back to those two rocks that popped out of the crater on the moon.
Yeah, sure.
Uh, it was said that, uh, you wouldn't have any moon dust because in an absence of no atmosphere, there would be no dust.
But if there was dust, you wouldn't have anything clearly defined like the moon rovers, the tire tracks, because there is no moisture.
Well, there is, Art, let me, let me say this.
There is a weathering of a type.
Yeah, and look, look, uh, it's not true because out here where I live in the desert, You have the same kind of fine stuff.
You have the moisture.
It's just like at the beach.
If you walk at the beach, water or not, you leave an impression, right?
If you have no moisture, you'll only leave depressions.
You won't have clearly defined cracks.
Well, he has a good point there, Don.
There is a weathering of a type on the moon, and that's billions and billions of years.
I sound like Carl Sagan there.
Of meteorite impacts.
And over the billions of years that this has been going on, there has been a weathering process of a type.
So, you know, I don't know what to tell you.
It's obvious that there are tracks there.
There are footprints.
I've seen the photographs.
You know, honestly, I think anyone who open-mindedly looks at the evidence against a moon landing, and still believes it's a moon landing, would have to be either brain dead or believe in the Easter Bunny.
Okay.
All right.
Thank you very much.
Well, I don't think I'm brain dead, and I don't think you are, and I do think we went to the moon.
I don't think there's even any question about it.
Right.
Sir Arthur Clark, I thought, made a crashingly good remark with regard to the reflectors and the laser stuff we were talking about earlier.
Yeah, I think we went.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Don Ecker.
Hi.
Hello.
Dave from Winston-Salem.
Hi.
Hi.
When he was talking about the moisture, I wondered about that, because I saw the rover go across, and it was throwing up all types of crap.
It was like getting a wheel.
And it was just throwing dirt and everything up.
And this stuff was going up and then coming back down, just like you were going on the beach.
But anyway, that's what I called about.
Um, when they go to the moon, the Japanese go, I think if I remember right, it's scheduled for about one year and six months from now.
When they go, if they go there and they don't find the modules or the rovers or anything like that, they'll solve that problem.
But, if we have not gone, and it was actually in reality, like you were saying, that we wanted to get there before the Russians, so we made it up, if the Japanese get there first, well, we have to change our history.
Uh, I didn't catch the very end.
Did you say, will we have to change our history?
Right, because if we have not gone to the moon in reality, and they send a probe up there, and then they send a man's project there to the moon, uh, I know my grandfather, he was, he's very American, very, very, um, very, um, Well, okay.
I think this entire argument about whether we went to the moon or not is basically a strawman argument.
I'm convinced, there's no doubt, we did go to the moon.
be kicking him in the feet.
Well, okay, I think this entire argument about whether we went to the moon or not is basically
a straw man argument.
I'm convinced, there's no doubt, we did go to the moon.
Now if for no other reason, and Art had mentioned this at the very early part of the program,
what Arthur C. Clark, Sir Arthur Clark, said about it.
We put laser detectors up there that we could bounce laser beams off the moon.
Now, if we didn't go there, how would we have gotten those detectors up there?
If for no other reason, I think that answered the question right there.
And the second thing, somebody else had mentioned earlier in the program, had we have tried to lie about going to the moon, hoaxing going to the moon, back in 1969, 1970, at the height of the Cold War, where we were threatening the Russians, and the Russians were threatening us with nuclear annihilation, believe me, they would have made it very plain to the globe that the Americans lied about this.
So this whole argument You know, Art, I've got to say, it's a bunch of B.S.
Well, there was also the waving flag, and you know, I thought, if we were going to fake it, we would have a flag that was not waving.
We wouldn't be that dumb.
The wave occurred because, of course, of the motion of putting one pole into the other, and they had a wire out there, so they had to stand out.
Sure.
And so it waggled around, and people said, look, it's air!
Yeah.
Well, obviously, if you're going to fake something, you're going to do a better job than that, and it's not going to flap around at all.
Ladies and gentlemen, believe me, we went to the moon.
Yeah.
All right.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Don Ecker.
Good morning.
Hello, Art.
Hi, my name's Brian.
I'm in Honolulu.
Yes, Brian.
And, uh, I'm glad that Don just mentioned the straw man argument, because, um, I'm not saying, uh, what he's saying is right or wrong, but I believe the argument I hear from him and several other people that, uh, uh, the fact that we have not been back to the moon as evidence for a conspiracy is in itself a straw man argument.
I grew up around the space program.
My father was in the space industry.
I met a lot of the greats in the space program, the Apollo program.
I taught at Space Camp.
I've heard lots of lectures from people.
The general feeling among the community is that there's not much interest in going back to the moon.
I know there's been some discoveries on the moon as of late.
A lot of people didn't even want to go to the moon to begin with.
Warner Von Braun, for instance, never wanted to go.
He wanted to go straight to Mars.
Not much interest in Mars, either.
Well, it appears that way, actually.
I think that the moon landing itself was just a Cold War statement.
Well, Brian, I've got to disagree with that.
I've got to disagree with your contention that nobody wanted or that many people did not want to go to the moon.
for two superpowers like the Soviet Union in the 1960s and the United States to spend close to 50 billion dollars and rubles in a race to get there with all the planning that we were doing at that time putting lunar bases on the moon a military outpost because let's let's not forget There were a lot of people as early as 1958-59 that wanted to see an American military presence on the moon.
And with the potential for colonization, manufacturing, raw resources, to suddenly, arbitrarily stop when we had additional missions paid for, additional astronauts trained to go, the rockets sitting in place, And then for NASA to say, well, we lost interest in it.
I don't know what the true reason was.
I wasn't privy to it.
But I'll tell you what, if you try to convince me it's because we lost interest, I'm going to have a huge belly laugh.
Well, you know, I hear what you're saying, and I've actually seen the Saturn V rockets laying down and resting with animals living in the engines.
But the general feeling is that there's not that much science to be done on the moon.
There's really not much reason to spend a huge amount of money.
What about astronomy?
What about the SETI program?
Oh, there's a lot of reasons to be up there.
I have a question for you, Don.
Yeah.
Why, ultimately, didn't the Russians, who had really big boosters, I mean, really big boosters... They were actually larger than our Saturn.
I know, I know.
Why did they not go?
Since when did the Russians trust us?
When we said, well, there's nothing of significance up there, since when did the Russians ever trust us?
Even today.
That was one of my points, that there was contact between the then Soviet Space Agency and the Americans.
Now, once again, this is rumor.
I got this, however, from several former Russians from the Commonwealth of Independent States.
And from some people in this country.
There was some concern between the Americans and the USSR about the potential of hostilities or conflict with the intelligence behind this phenomenon.
Now, am I saying I believe that?
Well, I can't say that.
But I do believe that something extraordinary happened there.
I know for a fact that there was contact between the Soviet Space Agency And the Americans.
And since the Russians never did send a manned mission to the moon, I'm speculating that whatever we found up there was relayed to the Russians.
And for all I know, they may have been, after the first Apollo 11 landing, they may have been privy to everything else we were doing up there.
Because if, Art, if there was an extraterrestrial presence up there, This would not be just an American problem or a Soviet problem.
This would have been potentially a problem that could affect the entire globe.
Well, look, if we had told them back then, we found nothing.
It was boring, it's rocks and some sand, and there's absolutely nothing on the moon.
Well, the Russians would not have believed us.
Look, if we told them we found signs of extraterrestrial life, the Russians would have beat feet to get to the moon.
The Russians sent one of the first unmanned lunar probes up there.
And where did they send it?
They sent it not to where they expected their cosmonauts to land, on the side that faces Earth.
They sent it to the back of the moon, to the far side of the moon, to thoroughly photograph it back there.
Now, I have some additional information about that particular area,
but I don't think we're going to have time tonight to get into it.
But I can tell you this, that my sources indicate that there was some extraordinary things on the far side of the
moon.
Okay. Well, it wouldn't surprise me, and I think it would not surprise Sir Arthur Clarke as well,
because he's theorized for a long time that an alien civilization might well use the moon as it was used in 2001,
as kind of a, well, you're here now, so you're in space, so we are going to notice you kind of deal, right?
One of the largest skeptics in recent years, and of course he's gone now, was Dr. Carl Sagan.
When it came to the UFO phenomenon, the UFO subject, he was publicly very, very skeptical, dismissive of it.
Yes.
However, in the early 1960s, when he was still a fresh, young scientist, he stated, before a meeting of the American Rocket Association out here in Los Angeles, that when we got to the moon, because we were planning then, in 61, 62, to go to the moon, when we got to the moon, don't be surprised if we find that somebody else has already landed up there.
Going where someone else has gone before.
Exactly.
All right, Don.
It, as always, has been a distinct pleasure having you on the program, and we will do it again.
Well, thank you so much, sir.
I appreciate it, and I'll get that photo for you tomorrow.
Thank you, and I'll get it up on the website tomorrow, too.
Take care, Don.
Thank you.
Have a good evening.
You bet.
Don Ecker from UFO Magazine.
All right, that's it for tonight, folks.
We're out of time.
I've been holding on to a lot of stuff.
I'll try to get to it tomorrow night, some of it tomorrow night.
Till then, from the high desert, good night all.
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