Don Ecker, UFO Magazine’s research director, and Art Bell analyze a 2001 global radio signal possibly linked to HAARP or adversarial tests like Russia/China amid missile defense tensions, while debating NASA’s lunar secrecy—high-res photos allegedly show artificial structures, rolling objects with tread marks, and habitats near King’s Crater. Ecker dismisses natural explanations, citing a 1960 Brookings Report warning of societal collapse if extraterrestrial remnants were confirmed, and the military’s Clementine mission, which mapped the moon despite NASA’s claims of disinterest. With Mars and Soviet Phobos anomalies also discussed, Bell and Ecker argue that Cold War-era lunar bases and suppressed discoveries—like Clarke and Sagan’s early theories—suggest a hidden extraterrestrial agenda, despite NASA’s laser reflector evidence. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all.
Good evening and or good morning on a mysterious night.
And welcome to that signal heard from Guam in the West, eastward to the U.S. Virgin Islands in the Caribbean, south into South America, north, and all the windows flow worldwide on the internet.
This is coast to coast A.M. and I'm Arthur, and we have a legitimate mystery on our hands tonight.
I began getting emails and lots of emails saying, guess what?
Well, I'll read you exactly what they said.
HARP transmitter now running at full power.
HAARP transmitter now running at full power can easily be heard around the world on TrueWave Radio.
As of this morning, this is somebody reporting Saturday, February 17th, 2001.
HAARP began doing testing with greatly increased full power.
The transmitter can now be heard all day long on 3.39 megahertz.
Very early this morning at about 3 a.m., HAARP could be heard at its old normal signal strength.
At about 4 a.m., the signal changed in both its pulse and timing and interpulse spacing.
At 4.30 a.m., the signal strength suddenly increased tremendously.
Unlike previous mornings, there was no regular F-layer daytime fade-out.
When the sun rose here in California at 6.45 a.m., I continued to monitor during the daylight.
I've never heard the HAARP signal during the daytime before.
The sun now rises in Kakona, Alaska at about 10 a.m.
Pacific.
The received signal again increased from about S5 to S9 at 10.05, and he goes on and on and on and on about HAARP.
And so, of course, getting so many emails from so many people, I tuned in, and you can believe it.
It's there.
In fact, I've got my receiver up right now.
And anytime now, it's going to come in and pulse.
Unless they're listening to me and decide to turn it off.
You know, we've been searching this out, and we just got an email from a fellow that thinks he knows what this might be.
And what he says is that this is in the second harmonic above the North Slope, and someone may be trying to accelerate electrons, and that this is the right frequency for electron acceleration theories.
And he's suggesting it's either high-pass or one of the Norwegian or Russian antennas.
And the person we're hearing that from is Dr. Bernard Eastland, who is the inventor of the HAARP technology.
So he's not exactly sure, but he thinks it may be something exotic like that.
unidentified
Exactly.
And this is one of the ideas that was one of the things behind the HAARP project.
HighPass is a smaller transmitter that was supposed to be significantly smaller than HAARP.
But today, as we've kind of searched through the files and really took another look at some of these things, what we're finding is that HIPAAS is actually being retrofitted to have a much higher effective radiative power than originally designed, which indicates that HAARP as well will have a much higher using that same set of principles.
But today what we did is we actually contacted folks at the HARP facility and some of our friends in the area.
But let me tell you something about this particular signal.
During the daytime, when there is no propagation, essentially, in other words, when signals on this frequency really go nowhere, they don't begin to propagate until later at night, I was still hearing this.
Now, that's some kind of line of sight, or I couldn't, if it was coming from Alaska, I couldn't imagine how I'd be hearing it all the way from Alaska during the daytime.
Here at night, it's rock-crushingly strong.
I mean, it's really strong.
unidentified
Well, one of the things to remember about HAARP is, and these ionospheric heaters, of which there are several around the planet.
I'm sorry for interrupting, Nick, but it's been so long since we did a show, and I'm rushing into this one because of what's going on.
Tell everybody, real quick, what HAARP is.
unidentified
HAARP is the high-frequency active auroral research project.
It's a joint effort of the Navy and Air Force to test a number of ideas with respect to the ionosphere.
And this is a layer that begins about 30 miles above the Earth's surface and continues several hundred miles out into space.
And by manipulating this layer and artificially simulating this layer, the idea is that you'll be able to propagate or interfere with the propagation of communications across the planet.
So this is one of the very things that we would expect to see.
In other words, during the daytime when signals are more difficult to transfer around the planet, HAARP and systems like HAARP are designed to enhance that propagation.
Now, a couple things are happening internationally right now that I think may contribute to some of what we're seeing.
It may not help us yet figure out who's transmitting today, but we know that the Russians have been running war games over the last several days, including the weekend, where they launched from an air-to-ground, from a submarine to ground, and from a portable ground-to-ground nuclear missiles.
And with those, there's been a lot of saber-rattling in terms of the Russian capability with its missile systems and defense systems.
And that's in advance of a meeting that's taking place this Saturday, and it's going to take place in Moscow between Secretary of State Colin Powell and the Russian Foreign Minister.
Actually, that's in Cairo.
And then later, a visit to Moscow by the NATO Secretary General George Robertson is to take place.
And some of this, it may very well be that the signal is being generated by them as a show of capability in this particular band.
And bearing in mind what Dr. Eastland has just informed us.
All right, and he responded to you tonight, just before airtime, saying that it might be what?
unidentified
That they may be using it to accelerate electrons.
And part of that is, is that's the whole idea of heating the ionosphere or creating artificial plasmas which can reflect a radio signal around the curvature of the Earth.
And that who might be trying to accelerate electrons?
Well, he indicates it could be HIPAAS, which is near Fairbanks.
It could also be the Norwegians, which have an ionospheric heater, similar to HAARP, or it could be Russian antennas.
And the interesting thing about the Russian antennas, and I think he's grouping them because the Ukraine, as part of the former Soviet Union, also has one of these arrays.
And we know from the Ukraine's website, which we also checked tonight, they have ongoing collaborations with both HiPass and HARP and Cornell University.
But I must tell you, Nick, that with the way 3.39 MHz would operate during the middle of the day, if I were to hear it here, which I did, and it were in Fairbanks, you're HighPass and Fairbanks, the Norwegians or the Russians, it would be an incredible accomplishment.
I've never heard anybody do this before on that frequency when propagation is closed.
That would be an astounding thing.
unidentified
Well, this is what to remember about HAARP and this whole concept was to create the environment where they could literally artificially stimulate the ionosphere in a way to do exactly these kinds of things.
And that there could be biological effects on human beings and all the rest of it.
Absolutely.
unidentified
In fact, when HARP was first designed, the interesting part of it was the versatility of the instrument.
And that's what I think attracted lots of scientists to look at it.
Because not only could it affect the ionosphere for, say, communications purposes, but as you say, if you pulse the signal in at the right pulse rate, what happens is the ionosphere, this layer above the earth, begins to vibrate or resonate in harmony with the signal and the pulse rate of the signal.
And what that causes is what's called an extremely low frequency signal or an ELF, which comes down to the Earth, passes through the Earth, and this is what they use for Earth-penetrating tomography and also for communication with submarines.
And it happens to also correlate with the predominant brainwave frequencies of human beings, which has been one of the more controversial areas surrounding this technology.
Now, when you called some physicists, I guess, at the HAARP facility earlier today, they deny it's them, right?
unidentified
That's correct.
In fact, we started with a conversation.
It actually was my staff person here who spoke with Michelle Engerbritson, who was the site manager.
She had Dr. Zwee call me back and I spoke with him for a few minutes and it's interesting because we also at the same time emailed Edward Kennedy who's with the Navy's program on HARP and what we got back from Kennedy was nothing had been done since November and yet what we got back from the site was nothing had been done since January which are significantly conflicting comments.
I think that's when we got the first facts of the article that you had quoted from as we began this.
And at first we looked at it, we thought, well, it's interesting.
You know, we did a little bit of looking around.
We didn't really find anything to confirm.
But when you called me later in the early afternoon, we decided to really take a dive into this.
And it's interesting is the search yielded a lot more than we expected, maybe in a few different directions.
But we're a little skeptical about what the HARP folks are saying, because one of the other things they have said historically is that they would not interfere with the ham radio operators band.
And yet, they did experiment, it was about a year and a half, maybe two years ago now, where they actually interfered significantly.
I remember receiving it, and I was unimpressed at the time.
I guess it was kind of low power, and it wasn't that much.
I heard it, but it wasn't much.
What we have on here now, 3.39, is a bone crusher, and I sure would like to know where it's coming from.
unidentified
Well, and the other thing about this right now is the developmental prototype, back when they were running those tests, they only had 18 antennas that were firing.
They have the full prototype array of 48 at this first phase of development, which has an ERP of just under 300 megawatts.
And that's the effective radiated power.
So certainly within the range of what HARP is capable of and within its historic operating frequencies, those coincidences seem a little large for me to just accept the fact that they're not firing.
Now, are they using this facility?
Are they using another facility somewhere else on the planet?
I think that's still a mystery, but I believe that...
Could there be one public harp and one not-so-public harp?
unidentified
Absolutely.
In fact, at this point, just given the publicity and the controversy over this facility that continues, I mean significantly continues in Europe more so than the United States, I would think that is probably exactly what's happened is a lot of this interest and activity has shifted off of this site.
And it's something that was pretty predictable.
And what we hear today, talking to Dr. Zwee, is that there's no big additional funding coming in for HAARP, which is a little surprising for a program that's already sucked up a couple hundred million dollars in its direct expenditures and ancillary expenditures, especially at a time when this administration and the past administration are getting ready to deploy a full-blown missile defense shield in Alaska.
You have to remember that ionospheric modification as an area of research has involved billions over the years.
And the missile defense system that's being contemplated for Alaska, they've already spent $6.6 billion on that project with an anticipated top dollar price tag of around $85 billion when it's finished.
And that's just the surveillance side.
That's just the kind of technology that HAARP would yield in terms of surveillance and over-the-horizon capacity and maybe some interference capacity.
But certainly, you know, it's a big number.
They've been talking about ground-to-air missiles as the methodology for affecting missile defense, but I believe, based on the research we've done, that that is a ploy, that that is not what's intended to be used, that it will be either a space-based laser system or it will be a ground-based electromagnetic weapon system.
And there's one in particular, the Department of Energy controls right now that looks like more in line with what they'll put in conjunction with this over-the-horizon facility that's being built in the Aleutian chain.
Well, maybe what we can do is prevail on the zillions of hands who listen to this program and find out if Dr. Bernard Eastland might be right about one of his guesses high pass at Fairbanks, the Norwegians, or the Russians.
But I find it hard to believe that it's any of those.
It might be.
It might be, and he knows a lot more about it than I do.
So hands out there and listen to 3.39, 3.39.
give us a report on what you hear.
What's this about...
Could tornadoes be prevented?
And you sent me something on this from CBS.
unidentified
Let me say this also.
Even if it is the Russians and even if it is the Norwegians, bear in mind they're in cooperative agreements with the HAARP facility.
Yeah, it's really hard to know these days who you're hearing.
And even when you know where it's coming from, you don't really know who it is.
unidentified
Exactly, because of all the collaborations.
The thing about the tornadoes, and the reason I sent you that, is it's kind of a follow-on to the HAARP story, because early on we had said that HAARP-like facilities or the HAARP facility itself could be used for affecting weather patterns.
And what we found, and this is really interesting, in the April-May issue of Science, Scientific America, actually, there's an article on weather.
In fact, the whole issue is on weather.
And there's one about the tornadoes that occurred in Orlando a few years ago.
And those, it's really interesting, is why they occurred there instead of East Texas where they were supposed to be, was there was a little jog in the jet stream, a little dog leg in the jet stream that just so coincidentally have happened right above the heart facility and it shoved a weather pattern from East Texas over to Florida.
Now a few maybe a year or so later we had the Oklahoma tornadoes that everyone should remember the Oklahoma City tornadoes.
And Clinton went out on the air right afterwards and said, hey folks, don't worry, one of these days we're going to figure out how to knock out a tornado.
Yes he did.
And everyone kind of laughed at him, but what they didn't know is just a couple months before Dr. Bernard Eastland had modeled on the University of Oklahoma's computers in Oklahoma City this new concept he had using harp instruments on the ground to knock out the energy of tornadoes.
Right, right.
And what they originally did with this, there's two papers involved.
There was an early paper done for the European Space Agency using ground-based harp type systems.
And then there was a second study that was commissioned, and this was the one that CBS picked up on.
And what they talked about was a satellite-based technology that would create the same effect.
And that study was sponsored by an interesting combination of NASA and FEMA.
The basic thought, quoting Eastland, Bernard Eastland, is to find the right spot in one of the storms, the area where the energy is going into rotation, and to change it.
They talk about a tornado being grafted between a hot updraft and a cold rainy downdraft, and the job would be done with a 500-foot-wide beam of microwave energy aimed at Earth from an orbiting satellite.
That's all in this article.
3.39.
What do you hear, folks?
I'm Art Bell, and this, this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 19, 2001.
Coast to Coast AM from February
Coast to Coast AM from February 19, 2001.
19, 2001.
All the way to the music.
He's like me, oh why can't I get him?
I got a lot of those heartaches I got a lot of those fear and all heartaches Fear and
all, all of the way Nothing but a heartache, everything Nothing but a heartache, everything I got a heartache, everything I got a lot of tears from all of the way I got a lot of tears I got a lot of tears I got a lot of tears He's like me, oh why can't I get him?
I got a lot of those heartaches I got a lot of those tears You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, the night featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 19th, 2001.
Well, John Monteverdi, a meteorologist at San Francisco State University, said, we really don't understand supercells enough to start fooling around with things like this.
Steven Schneider, a global warming expert at Stanford University, quote, the trouble with all these schemes, beaming energy from space down into storms, is we're not certain how well they'll work.
End quote.
unidentified
Sure are doing some interesting things, aren't we?
Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider.
You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price.
The package includes podcasting, which automatically downloads shows for you, and the iPhone app.
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That's over a thousand shows for you to collect and enjoy.
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Visit Coast2CoastAM.com to sign up.
Now we take you back to the night of February 19th, 2001, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Art Bell, Somewhere in Time Again, remember what creates a tornado, they think, the hot and the cold coming together.
Quoting, it's suspected that a tornado forms between a hot updraft and a cold, rainy downdraft.
Now with microwaves, I could heat that cold, rainy downdraft.
Yes, but what if you missed and hit instead the hot updraft and brought that to about two or three times its normal temperature?
Dr. Begich, welcome back.
unidentified
Hey, it's good to be back with you.
That's exactly it.
I mean, These kinds of experiments, if you miss the mark, so to speak, and you create the opposite effect, you end up intensifying the storm.
And perhaps by a magnitude.
I mean, who knows?
I mean, the fact is, this is one of the problems with this kind of experimentation.
The only way to find out is to do it.
And when you do it, and you don't really know what the result is going to be, pretty disturbing results could happen.
And with weather modification as an issue, when we spoke before the European Parliament in February 1998, we brought up this issue, we brought up the issue surrounding missile defense, and that was a year before the public or anyone politically was aware that the United States was preparing to unilaterally violate the ABM Treaty, which was the anti-ballistics missile treaty signed by the Soviets back years and years ago.
The problem is, and what has happened since, as we have accelerated the pace, and now going into this next week, we have our new Secretary of State on his way over to talk to the Russian Foreign Minister in Cairo.
At the same time, we've got the Chinese and Russians both cooperating in opposition to our initiative in missile defense.
Our NATO allies are highly disturbed because of their lack of inclusion.
And it would make sense to us that either the United States or the Russians or possibly the Chinese are demonstrating their ability to manipulate ionospheric processes, which is a key to missile defense.
In other words, if the Russians say demonstrated they already have this capability, it kind of renders where we're headed sort of obsolete.
I mean, if we think we're going to defend against them.
Likewise, perhaps it's us demonstrating to the Russians our capability now to make their missile tests that they've just demonstrated over the weekend to show them that those tests don't mean anything because we could stop those missiles with HAARP-based technology.
And bear in mind, right after the book on HAARP published, we had an article that we got from Estavia, which is a Russian publication, where they were asking the United States to join them in an initiative for missile defense using a ground-based system of phased array antennas that would do exactly what HAARP was designed to do.
And now we see years later, here's this demonstration in war games, and now we have this mysterious signal that demonstrates a capability nobody thought really existed on the planet.
You know, ham radio operators, if you have a tower in your neighborhood, you're a marked man.
I mean, any little flicker that people see on their TV, they're going to, you know, they blame you.
They're going to come knocking on your door.
That's right.
You've got to be the one.
So HARP is really a marked facility because right now, for example, there's a UN report that just came out on our weather and how it's going to get so violent and unreasonable.
I mean, here's the Honolulu Star Bulletin.
Global warming could change days late, scientists says.
A very interesting one.
So the weather is going to be changing and becoming more violent.
I wrote a book about that a long time ago, right?
And I'm sure that as it does and as tragedies occur, people are going to do what?
They're probably going to blame HAARP, even if it isn't their fault.
unidentified
That's exactly the case.
In fact, we're seeing it show up more and more.
I mean, the good news there is at least people know that there is a HAARP facility and they know that it has the potential for creating these problems.
And this is one of the things the Europeans called for, and we've been asking for ever since we started this, independent monitoring.
If we had independent monitoring of the HAARP facility and facilities like HAARP, we would all know today, right now, where that signal is being generated from and perhaps even why it's being propagated.
No, I think it's more in the order of maybe they are and maybe they're not, which is down around 50-50.
And there have been too many instances where misinformation has come across or deliberate skewing of the data in a way that makes it suspect.
And I mean, even simple things.
I mean, they went from calling these efforts campaigns and then in between campaigns, they had engineering tests, which actually were just like campaigns.
And so it's hard to say whether it's firing in a campaign, maybe if there's an engineering test.
They did tell us, interestingly enough, that there is a test planned.
And on the 27th of this month, you should be able to pick up the signal as they do their engineering test.
And on the evening of the 28th through the 1st, they are authorized to begin a test sequence.
And so we can watch and see what that entails.
But again, they've missed their testing schedules before, and they've had tests where they have not been scheduled before.
And their own program manager at the site versus their program manager at the naval facilities back east can't agree on when the last test was, and they're separated by about three months.
Well, it looks like they're bound and determined to go ahead with HARP and other weather modification attempts at a time when the weather is seemingly modifying itself or when we're doing it, depending on which side of the argument you believe.
Either way, it's getting worse.
unidentified
It's getting worse.
And it's going to get a lot worse.
And these kinds of experiments with systems that we don't fully understand may, in fact, be the straw on that Campbell's back.
And as you know, we've been saying that for at least four or five years in terms of what HARP might entail.
And here we are at a time when hostilities are ramping up at a time when they ought to be stabilizing, and they're not.
We're headed the opposite direction.
And the missile defense issue is central to the international debate in terms of what's going to yield either peace or a new Cold War.
And this is very upsetting, and it's a thing that we've predicted from the very beginning.
And here we are at a time when we should have a peace dividend, and instead we have the opposite.
We have saber-rattling even amongst our own allies.
Well, the national days, in a lot of ways, are kind of over.
And by that, I mean what we would do here in America scientifically, or the Russians would do in Russia or whoever, wherever, would be a local effect.
But now we're approaching these technologies where individual nations can do something that will affect or could affect the entire world.
unidentified
Absolutely.
In fact, there was a comment made by Secretary of Defense Cohen dealing with some of these new exotic weapon systems, and he was equating them to giving credit to terrorist states.
And he said, others are engaging even in the ecotype of terrorism where they can alter climate, set off earthquakes, and volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves, unquote.
And he said that on April 28th, 1997 at the University of Georgia.
That is very disturbing.
The idea that terrorist states, through electromagnetic waves, could alter climate, create earthquakes, or volcanic eruptions, that's pretty, you know, saying, giving credit to terrorist states, as unsophisticated as they are in their technologies, that's saying that maybe this technology is much simpler than we heretofore thought.
Just about everything I've been talking about lately has had to do with electromagnetics.
It's amazing.
It's the nature of it.
unidentified
It's where, you know, whether it's hardware, software, or human beings, this is the cutting edge of where science is headed.
And if you look at what we wrote a year ago, we said basically an outline of technologies and what was coming.
And what we've heard from this latest administration is the intent to leapfrog into the next generation of technologies above where most people think we are.
It's exactly where we said it was going.
I mean, if we had been a prophet, we couldn't have laid it out more clearly.
And we didn't do it that way.
We did it with 650 source documents saying this is what's coming.
And here it is, a year later, and we're right in the middle of it.
And we have the mystery signal.
And hopefully, people out there in the ham community might be able to locate that signal the same way they located the woodpecker signal back year ago.
Monitor tonight, now, if you wish, on 3.39, reported signal strength.
But then, even perhaps as important or more importantly, tomorrow during the day, when propagation is closed on that frequency, listen and give me reports during the day, and that'll really help us nail it down.
Because if it's really, really strong, really, really close to you, then we'll know.
Believe me, we'll know.
If we get enough reports from all of you out there, send them to artbell at mindspring.com.
We'll figure it out.
unidentified
It'll be interesting, because this may turn out to be surprising for everyone.
I think it's going to be an interesting thing to see what exactly it is happening.
If it's a HARP, that will be a confirmation of knowing that we can't depend on them for good information.
But if it's not HARP, it shouldn't be discounted too quickly.
Maybe it'll just turn out to be some sort of innocent data service, but I've never heard it before, and obviously nobody else has either.
So we need to figure out what it is.
And we can do that.
With the help of everybody out there, we can certainly do that.
unidentified
Well, and it would be assigned, you would think, within the spectrum if that were the case.
And that range of frequency, when we did our search today, is not assigned to anyone specifically or any particular application except HAM operators between 3.5 and 4.
Yeah, on my website at earthpulse.com, which is linked to yours tonight.
You can come, if you email to that site, all of those I see.
And my research assistant, James Roderick, who's also my co-author, checks those all through the day, and then we collate them at the end of the day and make sure I get through everything.
It'd be good to keep them coming in one place, Art.
So if they're coming through you and people have things they want to pass on to me, that's great.
But you're going to be able to interpret that with your ham experience much better than maybe I will.
So I'm looking forward to seeing what the public has to say, especially the overseas listeners, because that's going to help us a lot figure out where this is.
My international listeners, I should never forget them.
unidentified
And they're probably critical for this particular effort because wherever that signal is emanating from, if we have people across the globe checking that out tonight, we're going to have probably a pretty good bit of information by tomorrow.
People ask, how can a frequency like this, 3.39, possibly affect the weather or map anything?
They don't understand the concept of the harmonic relationship.
unidentified
Okay, if it's, as Bernard Eastland said, Dr. Eastland said, for electron acceleration or heating in the ionosphere, what happens is a number of things can happen.
You can create plasmas for bouncing a signal from one end of the planet to the other, and that's using a second facility, which you could use, HARP and HIPAAS here in Alaska for that.
You could also use it for heating the ionosphere to create what's called a hole in the ionosphere, where literally about a 30-mile diameter hole opens up and goes maybe 200 kilometers out.
So it's a big empty column.
The lower atmosphere then rushes in to fill that space, altering the flow of jet streams and/or pressure systems below the event.
And so, as I said earlier, the Scientific American article showing this slight dog leg coincidentally above HAARP would be one of the kinds of effects that you could stimulate with ionospheric heating.
Nick, why would Alaska be a particularly appropriate place to be doing all this?
unidentified
Well, the main couple things.
One is you need vast amounts of energy which are available here.
And secondly, the closer you are to the poles where the magnetic lines of force intersect the planet, the more capable, the easier it is to manipulate ionospheric processes and to manipulate what's happening within those lines of force, both important to this program.
And this is Alaska strategically as a point of defense is absolutely critical for over-the-pole attacks by any adversary trying to get to the United States.
And this is the ideal place to locate a national missile defense system, as has been shown in the hearings that have taken place.
And bear in mind that the things that are being equipped, the pulse energy that's being looked at as one of the main issues surrounding many of these technologies, you can take the energy of two car batteries, compress it, and release it in 150th of a nanosecond, and it will create as much energy as the entire planet generates by six times in that little fraction of a second.
But for that little fraction of a second, you exceed the power generating capacity of the world by almost six times.
And that burst of energy used in weapons application would knock out everything from intercontinental ballistics missiles to toaster ovens.
And this is the kind of technology that's being played with.
So if you're demonstrating an energy capability during the day that shouldn't exist, it's sending also a very strong signal to your adversaries of what else you might have in store for them.
We're monitoring a mysterious signal on 3.39 megahertz that Dr. Bernard Eastland says may be an attempt to accelerate electrons, what's called high pass in Fairbanks.
It may be the Norwegians or the Russians or something entirely different.
It sounds much like a data transmission.
And we're soliciting hands all over to listen to the signal strength and report what it is wherever you are.
I'm beginning to get those reports down.
I'll let you know as we correlate them and get them in what's going on.
Coming up in a moment, writer and commentator Don Ecker, who's the research director for UFO magazine and longtime investigator into UFO matters and much more, including the moon, which we're going to do tonight.
unidentified
*Gunshot*
Now we take you back to the night of February 19th, 2001, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
My friend the other day, a fellow QRPer, that means low power person, hit Italy on one watt.
The signal sounds like it's keyed much like a repeater on two meters.
In the very beginning of the sound art, I could hear, I could be wrong, but you hear a signal, a tone signal, then a scrapping sound, but it is a tone signal in the beginning.
Very interesting.
Welcome back, blah, blah, blah.
And on and on.
And I'm getting these reports from all over the country right now.
It's going to take quite a few of them to begin to correlate where I think this is.
And more importantly, it's going to take daytime monitoring as well.
Now, writer and commentator Don Ecker is the research director at UFO magazine and a longtime investigator into UFO matters.
In 1966, Ecker had his own UFO sighting in Pennsylvania, an experience which lingered in his memory and became the foundation of his ongoing quest for more facts on the subject.
Now, the same thing happened to me.
When my wife and I had ours, it sort of settled something in your head and you go, oh my God, this is either them or it's us.
And either way, it's a gigantic story.
Either we figured out how to defy gravity or they are here.
Anyway, moving on, in 1969, Ecker enlisted in the U.S. Army, ended up doing two tours of Vietnam with Special Operations, Army Security Agency during the war.
After returning from Vietnam, Ecker served as a police officer in Idaho, Colorado, and Pennsylvania for medical retirement in 1986.
Having been seriously injured in a SWAT team accident, Ecker spent a good part of his recovery following up on UFO information by computer.
During his investigations at the time, Ecker ran across UFO Magazine and subsequently contributed many articles.
In 1993, he married the magazine's co-founder and editor, Vicki Cooper.
With UFO Magazine, that's a marriage made in literary heaven.
With UFO Magazine, Ecker continued his pursuit of the enigmatic UFO phenomena.
He has appeared on countless radio and television shows.
In 91, became the host of his own show called UFO's Tonight and then Strange Days.
And he's been all over, and most recently has published a book, actually wrong, is busily compiling information for a book on lunar anomalies.
It looks like almost where I live here, as a matter of fact.
If you were to take pictures of where I live, Don, from...
Yeah, it looks like the moon.
It's just like the moon.
As a matter of fact, on this UFO cover-up thing on Fox the other night, they said they thought that it was done out here at Area 51, which they suggested looks just like the moon, and it does.
And so when I look at these photos, I'm looking for some of the things that people say are there.
And in the case of the ones you've sent, even the ones you've sent, I look at them and I say to myself, it looks like rocks.
But the anomalies, now you've got to realize that in the eight, nine years now that I've been conducting this research, I have by now looked at literally thousands of lunar photographs.
And the majority of these photographs are in black and white anyway.
Well, sure.
And one of the things that I want to talk about later on this evening was a show that I did a number of years ago, about six, seven years ago, with an engineer down in Houston who also got on this trail of lunar photographs.
And we were discussing the photographs that are publicly available, publicly accessible now, where the public can go, they can request photographs, they'll get them.
and then the photographs that NASA has that have never seen the light of day.
And these photographs are of extreme high resolution, high clarity, much, much different than many of the photographs that we see.
But the photos that I sent you, for example, one of the photographs show two objects rolling over the lunar surface out of Vitelli crater that are leaving very clear tracks as they're rolling across the surface.
They look almost like an armored tread, like a tank tread.
I had the blue screen of death here, so I'm rebooting, and in just one moment, I'll be online, and I'll be able to look at the photograph you're talking about.
I know.
It's really important to be able to know what you're looking for when you see these photographs, or you say, as I did, just a bunch of rocks.
And as a matter of fact, since you announced that on your website, or Keith Rowland, your webmaster, put up that I was going beyond there, I've already received a number of emails from your listeners around the country that have gone up, looked at some of these photographs, and I've pretty heard, well, gee, I don't know what I'm looking for.
If you look at it closer and click on it to get the full effect art, you're going to see what, to me, beyond any doubt, looks like the rear end of a satellite dish.
Now, in the upper left part of that photograph, you'll see a white arrow art that's pointing down at two structures that are sitting in the shade.
Obviously, there's a wall behind it.
And when you look at it very closely, you'll see what appears to be two, in the one structure, two lit windows in what to me looks like, it's styled like an old Army Kwanzet hut.
Now that you bring me straight to it, Don, I sure do see it.
But are you sure that we're just not, I mean, you could look at these photographs until you go blind, and eventually you'll begin to see, even in the most random video noise, you will begin to see things.
And now that you point it out, yeah, I see it.
But are you sure we're not a victim of looking at lunar photographs too close up for too long?
So right now, I'm in the very curious position of defending NASA, having just as sure as, you know, the sun is going to rise in the morning that we went to the moon, no doubt in my mind, but also taking them to task for basically the prevarications that have come out of NASA on many items,
not the least of which is what happened up on the moon.
Now, you've got to realize that there's so much more to this than just a group of photographs art.
Going back to the Apollo program in the mid-1960s when we were getting ready to send first Apollo 8 to the moon, then Apollo 11, and so forth, NASA also knew that the moon had a very, very rich history of hundreds of years of anomalies that have been cited by professional astronomers all over the globe.
And as a result of that, they contracted and had a special report completed on lunar anomalies, on translunar anomalies.
Your position is that the photographs have been altered and that we altered them because of what we found on the moon, and that's why we haven't been back to the moon.
Well, Mr. NASA person, you know, when I went to Vietnam the first time, I lost interest about 15 minutes after I got there.
But yet I ended up spending 26 months in Southeast Asia, regardless of the fact that I and millions of other people lost interest in going there.
However, in 1972, after Apollo 17, NASA had another mission ready to go with the rockets already built, ready to be set on the launch pad, the astronauts trained, the mission paid for.
You didn't go.
And your reason was the American public lost interest.
Now, I would have to ask you, sir, who is BSing whom?
Well, I'd like to say I have a quick answer for you.
But of course, here at NASA, we're always accused of BSing.
And we're used to that.
It was, in fact, the American public losing interest.
And of course, we were at the end of funding for the manned projects to the moon, and we couldn't see any reason to go back.
We had collected samples and rocks and knew quite a bit about the moon, and the American public simply was not prepared to support more spending, Mr. Ecker.
Remember that story about the keys falling out of the sky?
That's getting strange out there.
We're monitoring a pretty weird signal on 3.39.
We'd appreciate your reports, not just during the nighttime hours, because it appears to be propagating just about everywhere, but during the daytime hours as well.
And then there's a UN report out today.
And then there's Don Ecker, who's pointing out things on the moon, and I'll be damned.
As I start looking at these, I do see them.
Why would a rock on the moon, where there should not be geologic activity, jump up out of a crater and roll across the face of the moon, leaving an obvious track?
Now, I certainly do see that with no problem whatsoever.
What's going on up there anyway?
unidentified
or what has gone on.
You're listening to Art Bells Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 19, 2001.
I'm going to tell you about a letter I received, and we'll go back to Don Acker.
I have received a letter from somebody at Area 51.
Now, there's part of the letter that I cannot post, and I have not posted it because of the restrictions placed on me by the person who sent it to me.
All I can tell you is this.
The person who sent this had information about my location that could only be obtained by the most exotic aircraft in the world, more exotic than you can possibly imagine.
And I got specifics on that, but I cannot release them because of what I promised.
And so instead, we have released what we were told we could release, which was the body of the email, which is called Jimmy the Dog.
Jimmy the Dog.
And I may get to reading it to you and the Don Ecker a little later.
In the meantime, if you want to read it, it's on my website right now under What's New, email, Jimmy the Dog.
Read that.
It'll blow your mind.
That is, I can tell you, from somebody at Area 51.
And by the way, the other people that have seen the full email confidants of mine agree that it is definitely a legitimate area, a legitimate letter from Area 51.
I don't know about it being a legitimate area, but it is from somebody who obviously works up at the site.
Having said that, we now go back to Don Ecker, and the photographs we're talking about right now are also on my website.
If you go up there, www.artbell.com, click on program tonight's guest info.
You'll see Nick Bagich there, then below him, Don Ecker, with the moon photographs that we are discussing as we go here.
And I must admit that without question, without question, we have here a photograph of a rock that has apparently jumped up out of a crater and rolled across the surface of the moon.
Now, what in the world would cause a rock to jump out of a crater and roll across the face of the moon, leaving tracks like a military vehicle as it did so?
Well, there have been some vibrations that have been detected on the moon.
The vibrations, you know, after we went up there, after Apollo went up there, we left quite a bit of scientific equipment on the surface.
One of the things that they were using this equipment for was to detect geological tremblings and so forth.
As a matter of fact, there were some not quakes, but actually deliberately, we, the Americans, had dumped some used rocket parts into the moon, and one very famous incident was reported by the scientific equipment, the moon rang like a bell for hours after one of these deliberate crashes.
Now whether there's actual geological activity, most NASA geologists will tell you the moon is geologically inactive or dead.
However, things like meteorites striking the moon and so forth can be detected.
Now this object, this so-called rock, I personally don't believe that it is a rock.
Providing we know what the altitude was that these photographs were taken at.
This is some of the research that I'm conducting right now to try to get an idea.
And using basic high school trigonometry with some of these items answered like the altitude and the sun position and so forth, we can determine what the distance is, what the length of this track is.
And, Art, I wanted to tell you, and the audience also, that a year ago, this past October, UPN out here in Los Angeles, over a period of five or six weeks, shot a series of special reports taking a look at various aspects of the UFO phenomenon.
One of the episodes that they did, I was featured in it with my lunar research that I'm conducting right now.
And while I was being interviewed down at UFO magazine offices, Tammy Taylor, who was the reporter doing this story, asked me off camera if I would have any objections if they took a series of these photographs up to NASA Ames and spoke to some of the geologists up there.
And I told her, no, not only do I not have any objections, but I would love the opportunity to discuss my research and some of these photographs on camera.
So they went up to NASA Ames and they spoke with Dr. Natalie Cabral.
Now, Dr. Cabral went to her supervisor to find out if NASA had any heartburn over her being interviewed.
And they said, no, that's fine, go ahead.
So then Cammie and the producer pulled out these photographs and began showing Dr. Cabral some of my photos.
And she looked at the photographs and inexplicably then pulled out of the broadcast, refused to be interviewed, and she would no longer take their phone calls.
And as it's stated in this UPN report, she said, well, no matter what I say to explain these photographs and how they're only natural geological processes, nothing I say will convince believers that what they're looking at is a natural process.
So, you know, when you have something like that happen, they're all set to be interviewed, go on camera.
She saw some of my pictures and she pulled out.
Then I have to say, well, now that's just one of those things that make you go, hmm, you know?
Well, you know, you could imagine it would be that done, or you could imagine that she found out who it was, what kind of photographs they were, took a look at them, and if I were a NASA person, you know, I might say exactly the same thing.
I understand that, but I might look at them and say, damn, you know, this is weird, and I'm not going to be able to explain it, and I'm pretty damn sure it's a natural process, but how am I ever going to explain this?
you know, I'm going to come out looking like a dummy, and this person is going to come out looking like a hero, because I can't explain what it is.
Until about three, four years ago, we went back to the moon.
The Clementine mission went back to the moon, a robot mission that took over 2 million photographs, completely remapped the entire lunar surface, and who paid for it?
Well, hey, look, now, I've got to ask myself, if it's true what NASA said years ago, that we basically know everything there is to know about the moon.
The moon's not interesting anymore.
That's boulder dash.
That's not even close.
And then when we do go back, it's the military that goes back.
Now, that, you know, all those little things make me go, hmm, there's something just a little strange.
Why would it not be, what would be so incredible that it would not be in the best interest of NASA to splash it all over the place to get the manned space program really humming?
I mean, if there was evidence of extraterrestrial presence or even some early Earth civilization presence that we don't know about, whatever you might imagine on the moon, why wouldn't NASA announce it to the world?
It's not, although I have no doubt that there are relics up there.
I believe that there are ongoing current processes up there even as we speak.
Look, there's so much about the moon that most people are not even aware of.
Let me give you just a couple of very short little things that will make you think about this.
You know, the oldest rock ever discovered on our planet, the Earth, can only be dated back about 3.5 billion years.
Now, there's a lot of reasons for that.
The Sun, our star, Sol, is considered to be between 4.5 and 5 billion years old.
The solar system, somewhere in that general vicinity.
Now, it's not even really known where our moon came from.
And we actually have kind of an odd setup with the moon.
You know, most other planets that have moons, Mars has two, Saturn has better than eight or nine, Jupiter has a bunch of major moons and then minor moons.
We only have one moon around our planet.
And when we went there, one of the oldest rocks discovered on the moon was actually older than our solar system.
It was dated at 5.3 billion years old.
But you know what's even more interesting, Art?
The soil that that rock was found in was a billion years older than the rock itself.
Now, this was reported in Harvard's respected astronomy journal, Sky and Telescope, back in 1973.
Now, you've got to ask yourself, a rock that's older than the solar system and the dirt that it's in that's a billion years older than the rock, where did this come from?
Now, something else that was noticed on the moon, the moon was incredibly dry, drier than our most dry desert here on the planet.
Yet in 1971, some of those instruments that we left up there indicated that a wind of water vapor stretching over 100 miles suddenly blew across the lunar surface.
Now, you've got to ask yourself, water vapor blowing across a size of distance 100 miles, roughly 100 miles, where could this have come from?
Well, the answer is we don't know, or if we do, we're not talking about it.
And when I say we, of course, I'm talking about NASA.
Now, you know, don't think that NASA is this monolithic agency where everybody that works there is in the know.
Of course not.
If this is considered as important a national security issue as I think.
Well, why do you believe, and I mean, you've been doing UFO stories for many years now.
What is the reasoning behind the secrecy of that?
It all falls in the same thing.
Back in 92, I broke a story on CNN concerning the space shuttle, STS-48, and that famous video of the UFO seen over the limb of the Earth, and suddenly it makes a dramatic right-angle turn.
Now, I was told shortly after that broadcast on CNN that I had really angered a lot of people back in Washington, that that video, when I got my hands on that video and CNN ran it, that the next day, the channel that that had been beamed down to Earth on had been encrypted.
Later NASA spokespersons like Jim Olberg went on the air and said, well, you know, the reason that the channel now is encrypted is to protect medical privacy of the astronauts and what have you.
Now, Oberg, when he was trying to explain that, said that this was one of the attitude thruster jets firing.
Well, I don't want to call Oberg a liar.
I'll just say he was gravely mistaken.
The gas that they use to position the shuttle around is an inert gas.
It's like, for example, it's like blowing carbon dioxide.
Anybody that's ever had a PV gun that has used the little cylinders of gas, you see no flash with that.
It's just a puff of gas.
That will push the shuttle around.
But yet, whatever that flash of light was, a split second later, this projectile thing came flashing up through the screen exactly at the position where this unidentified object had been just a split second before it made the dramatic turn.
Now, they tried to say on that broadcast that this was simply ice from a wastewater dump.
In other words, it was frozen urine and the astronauts were dumping.
All right, I'm getting hundreds of responses on this signal.
And many are saying they hear two signals, and I agree with that.
First signal you hear, this is from West Virginia, by the way.
Very, very strong in West Virginia.
Second signal following is much weaker and appears to be repeated over and over.
Perhaps some of your listeners involved in the digital molds can identify one or both of them.
I cannot.
It sounds digital.
That's the only reference point I can give you for it.
It sounds digital.
But I don't have the slightest idea.
And here we have this story saying it's harp, harp denying it's harp, and Bernard Eastland, Dr. Eastland, saying it might be high pass at Fairbanks, Norwegian, or perhaps the Russians.
Interesting stuff.
Once again, here is Don Ecker.
But again, Don, I hate to harp on this.
Pun intended, I suppose.
But I just, you know, it seems to me that it would be in the national interest to announce something like this, whether it was A, a previous civilization, or B, aliens, or, I suppose, let's add one more.
Number one, about seven or eight years ago, I had a call from Dick Hogland asking me if I could assist him and Dr. Stan McDaniel while McDaniel was preparing a critique of NASA in reference with the Cydonia question.
And they asked me if I would look if I could locate a document that they thought had been prepared for the then brand new NASA back in the early 60s that dealt with the peaceful pursuit of exploration of outer space.
I found the document.
It was a document prepared for the then brand new NASA by the Brookings Institute.
And in this document, among some of the people that assisted in writing this, and it's several hundred pages in length, was Margaret Mead.
Now that's a very, very famous name in anthropology, okay?
And Margaret Mead, among others, pointed several things out, that once we go to space, what happens if and when we encounter either the remnants of an extraterrestrial civilization or actual ETs?
Their fear was, as is outlined in the Brookings document, that every culture and society on our planet, going back into our history that has encountered a more technologically advanced culture or society, ultimately ended up being destroyed and absorbed.
And some of the items that they pointed out were when the Spanish conquistadors entered Central and South America, what happened to those actually those wonderful, brilliant, really elevated societies.
But in there, prior to NASA becoming NASA, NASA was originally NACA, which is the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics.
Now, Paul Hill was not just some egghead.
He was one of the reasons that we won the Second World War.
He was very instrumental in helping design and get built the P-47 Thunderbolt, one of our premier aircraft during the Second World War.
Now, Hill had a tremendous sighting of the UFO phenomena about the same time as the infamous Washington, D.C. overflights in 1952.
This was very prominently reported by Captain Ed Rupelt of Project Blue Book, although at the time he only described Paul Hill as an NACA bigwig.
Because when Hill had this sighting, he went to his supervisors, his superiors, the NACA, the NACA director at that time was a gentleman by the name of U. L. Dryden.
And Dryden told Paul Hill that, number one, their official position was UFOs are non-existent.
Therefore, he could not talk about this because if he did, he'd be out of the agency.
They made that crystal clear to Paul Hill.
Later, when NACA became NASA, the same people remained in charge with the same policy.
So since day one, NASA's policy has been that we don't talk about UFOs, period.
That's number two.
The third thing that I thought about while we were on break concerned the infamous University of Colorado UFO study, also known as the Condon Committee.
Now, when the Air Force was looking, was actually shopping for a university to take over this study, and they still hadn't yet decided on who was going to run it, there was a gentleman by the name of Robert Lowell who, in a memo, was discussing what some of the problems may be if this study was taken over.
One of the people that he talked to was a gentleman by the name of Louis Branscombe.
There were a number of other very prominent people in science and technology in those days that they also talked to.
But Branscombe's idea about UFOs was, look, we can't become involved with this because if they turn out to be real, we're going to look foolish.
Now, you've got to think about the scientific ethics and honesty of a position like that.
It's obvious that something has been going on for a very long time.
The bottom line is, there are actually a number of bottom lines, Art.
One is, if we acknowledge that this is real, how are we going to explain to the public 50-plus years of lying and deceit?
That's number one.
Number two, the national security considerations.
We know, I know from my research, that for years, UFOs have shown an inordinate interest in areas with nuclear facilities, areas where nuclear weapons are stored.
In one very famous case that took place in the Dakotas in the mid-1970s, and it was detailed by Larry Fawcett and Barry Greenwood in their superb book, I believe it was the UFO cover-up, in their superb book.
In one case, a UFO entered a nuclear storage facility and actually destroyed the weapon.
They had to replace the weapon.
How did Greenwood and Fawcett discover this?
Using the Freedom of Information Act request.
The entire missile had to be replaced.
Now, if the public suddenly became aware that this was not Looney Tunes, Panic City.
So really, you're suggesting then that of the three possibilities I named, previous civilization, aliens, and something that we're doing now, you'd probably say something that is happening now.
In other words, something very contemporary.
They could talk, I think, about an ancient civilization, a find of an ancient civilization, don't you?
Just as they could in SETI if the signal was very old and took billions of years to get here.
But if it's happening right now and it's disabling nuclear weapons or whatever other mischief is going on and they can't explain it, then I agree with you, they would not tell us.
Yeah, afraid of being embarrassed or afraid that, you know, it's a close-up to something that's interpretive and I as a NASA person am never going to be able to explain it satisfactorily ever it's just an interpretive thing and yeah it looks like the back of a satellite dish or whatever but you know that well there's a big difference art between not being able to look at something and say specifically what this is or
But it's something else to hide it behind a wall of deceit and deception, which is, in effect, what NASA has been doing for a very long time, especially with photographic evidence showing anomalies.
You know, what you mentioned about the possibility of disrupting organized religion is also, I think, an important consideration.
And the first document that I located, Art, they discussed in the document two groups of peoples that would be adversely affected by the admission that we uncovered extraterrestrial life.
One group was engineers and scientists.
Of course.
They would be, according to the wording in the document, devastated.
The second group of people that would be electrified, that would be amazed and who knows what else, were fundamentalist religious peoples.
Now, they didn't specify Muslims, Christians, Jews, but anyone with a fundamentalist bent.
Now, I've always been somewhat amazed at that because I would think that this would only show the true glory of a creator.
That there would be life strewn across the cosmos.
But, apparently, they felt at that time, 1961, that it would somehow disturb the status quo as far as religions were concerned.
It's funny you should mention that because in the very next issue of UFO Magazine, we are taking a look at Darwinism and, as we're calling it, the death of Darwinism.
There seems to be, there seems to be a design of the human being, that human beings were designed.
Now, make of that what you will.
Darwin's Black Box was a book that, in the last year or two, has been published.
The author's name is, I forget his first name, his last name is Behe.
Where he shows, in this book, Darwin's Black Box, how the human form and the human structure, he believes, was designed.
Now, if you go that far, if you take that step, I'll tell you, you're really opening up a can of worms with the public today.
Because what you're indicating, or what you're saying is that the human race, Homo sapiens sapien, somewhere along the line was genetically engineered.
Now, whether that was by a deity, a supreme deity, or...
perhaps some point in the last several million years visitors that may have come to this planet open up a true can of worms pretty important question you know they just finished unraveling the human genome yes and really it's interesting because they may have opened their own can of worms the genome was not as complicated as they thought didn't take as many years as they thought However,
now that it's all unraveled, they're suggesting that the real magic may not be in the specific genome, but the interaction between the various genes in a human being's makeup, and that that interaction may be where all the real magic occurs.
Now, if that's true, they've got combinations beyond all ability to calculate.
So the whole thing may be sort of up in smoke, blown sky high, if you will.
Hold on, Don.
We'll be right back.
There's more coming.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 19th, 2001.
I gave you love, I thought that we had made it to the top.
I gave you all I have to give, but didn't have to stop.
You've blown it off skyline by telling me a lie without a reason why.
*outro music*
Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's program originally aired February 19th, 2001.
Now, back in 1953, the science editor for the New York Herald Tribune newspaper was a fellow by the name of John J. O'Neill.
Okay?
Now, in July of 1953, O'Neill, who was an amateur astronomer, went outside, set up his telescope, and was doing some lunar observations.
And Meracrisium was the area that he was observing.
And much to his surprise, as he was looking at Merakrissium, on the photograph where you see the circle, off to the side, he saw what he described as a bridge which was spanning the rim of the crater.
Now, he observed this for several hours and was shocked to see it.
He had never seen it before in all his lunar observing.
Now, let me give you the rest of the background on this.
So, O'Neill was shocked to see this, and he did something that was very, very ethical, what many people in his position would not have done.
He reported it to the American Astronomical Society, or the Lunar and Planetary Observers.
And as he expected, within the next month, he was attacked by a number of astronomers that said, hey, you're crazy.
You're full of blueberry muffins.
There's no such thing up there.
However, the attacks ceased a month later when two British authorities, world-renowned, verified his observations.
Dr. H.P. Wilkins and Patrick Moore, who's probably one of the most famous living astronomers today.
They both told him that, hey, or they both told the public, hey, there really is something there.
Now, how it got there is anybody's guess.
But what's even more astonishing with this photograph is if you look at the crater where the bridge is, you follow the rim around, you'll come to another arrow between the 9 and 10 o'clock positions on the rim of the crater.
You will see a structure there, Art, that the first time I saw it about seven or eight years ago, it literally took my breath away.
I call it the Castle Wall.
It has all the appearance of being artificially constructed, but what's really odd about this, it has something extending out of the wall, like on a spar or a beam, and on the very end of it is a round ball.
Now, what that is, is anybody's guess.
The person that first pointed this out to me was a fellow who had years of lunar observation under his belt, a man by the name of Jim Sylvan.
And I, over the years, had done a number of programs and interviewed Jim about this.
And he had a very interesting story he told me about a year and a half ago.
He had taken this photograph down to a presentation given by Admiral Alan Shepard before Shepard passed away.
And Shepard was giving a talk.
I don't recall if Jim had told me it was after Shepard had written a book or something.
But at any rate, at the end of this presentation, he went up to get Shepard to autograph a photograph for him.
And all these people were in there.
They were talking to Shepard.
He was giving autographs away.
Jim got up to him, shook his hand, told him he had been a big fan and really, really admired what Shepard had done and his last mission, which was a lunar mission.
And he asked him if he would sign a lunar photograph that he had.
He pulled out this picture, handed it to Shepard.
Shepard pulled his pen out, began to write his name, and Jim pointed to this structure that I just told you about and said, by the way, sir, can you tell me what this is?
Shepard looked down at the photograph.
Apparently, according to Jim Sylvan, he recognized this thing.
Jim told me that he turned white, handed the picture back to him, turned around, and walked away.
Now, that's an anecdotal story.
I was not there to see it, but I know Jim Sylvan, have known him for years, have never known Sylvan to lie about anything, and seeing this photograph, which incidentally was taken on the Apollo 16 mission, I've got to ask myself, just what in the world is that art?
And I might imagine on his part, I'm playing the devil's advocate for you here, that when it was pointed out, when the specific thing was pointed out, he went to himself, oh, God, you know, another one of these, and just declined to sign.
We have incredible abilities now with our KH series of satellites, and who knows what has come after them that I don't know about, to look at very tiny things here on Earth.
And so we can certainly do the same thing on the moon.
And then also, you're right, why would our Defense Department send a probe to the moon?
Hi, I've got a question for a period of time when I was in Hawaii, and I think this was Maui, Kawaii, one of the islands.
There's an area that's called President Kennedy's head.
I don't know if you're familiar with it, but there's an area you come to and you look through this tube.
You have to look through the tube because if you're just looking off toward the horizon, you don't see anything.
But if you look through this tube, the tube takes you to one specific point of a rock face.
And when you look at the one part that you see through the tube, you see this natural occurrence of what you would swear was somebody having chiseled President Kennedy's head out of the face of the rock.
But then you come across something like that photograph with the two, according to NASA, rolling boulders that rolled up and out of basically holes in the ground and left a very distinctive treadmark behind them.
Now, that, I don't know about you, Bob.
Maybe you can explain that.
That, to me, simply does not make sense.
My entire point of working on this book and working with these photographs, researching this story, is to try to get some answers out.
Because up to this point, I think it's very safe to say that in matters like this, our agency, NASA, supposedly the most open federal bureaucracy in American government, has been less than forthcoming about not only this, but a lot of other things.
Well, maybe Bob can answer some of the questions, the harder ones we've been pondering.
Bob, why do you think we haven't been back to the moon in 30 years?
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Well, you know, I think that there's a lot of people who think that we've wasted our money and that politically it's not the expedient thing to do so that the politicians don't move forward.
I mean, in other words, why is it that we don't fund looking for near-Earth objects that could destroy the Earth?
Why would the Department of Defense send a satellite to the moon after we had been there and declared it uninteresting if that's why we haven't been back for 30 years?
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You know, I thought about that as you were talking about it, and I'm thinking, what is there that somebody else, like another nation like maybe the USSR, like Russia, could have done over the past 30 years that might have affected or might have involved the moon that maybe we didn't know all about?
Maybe over the last 10 years we learned more about it?
This nation, the American government, has in geosynchronous orbit, covering the entire spanse of the globe, a series of satellites called the DSP-1, okay?
That satellite continuously scans all parts of the globe looking for, among other things, ICBM launches.
It can detect everything from optical light to X-rays.
I don't know if you recall back in the late 1970s or right around 1980, there was some speculation that South Africa set off an atomic device.
Now, my point in mentioning this is, had the former Soviet Union, now the CIS, had they have had a manned mission that went to the moon, we would have known about it.
If no one else would have known about it, the Department of Defense, the NSA, and the Central Intelligence Agency would have known about it.
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But who's to say that they didn't know about it, and they still needed to send this reconnaissance craft to the moon, but they're not going to tell us that.
Well, just to get there is quite an accomplishment.
And I would have to say, and let's not lose sight of the fact there are a heck of a lot of other countries around the world that would probably have talked about this.
Right now, China, communist China, is working feverishly to get a manned space program going.
The Japanese are.
The Japanese are talking about going to the moon.
It's going to be very interesting in the next three to five years to find out if the Japanese make it or not.
That is very interesting because Japanese don't have the same sort of religious faith concerns about revelation of others that we do.
Has that occurred to anybody?
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Do you know what's so hard for me in looking at all of this is that with all the goings-on and everything that we see from day to day, I say somewhere there is the smoking gun.
In fact, there should be hundreds or thousands of smoking guns.
You can watch America's funniest home videos and you pick up little pieces of things that nobody ever would have thought that somebody could have caught on tape, but because there's so much information gathering, and we get so close, but we never get all the way there.
There it is, and it's been broadcast for a good 10 plus years.
Don't lose sight of all the television programs in the last 10 years that made this subject a mainstay.
Programs like Hard Copy, programs like A Current Affair, programs like Unsolved Mysteries.
And the bottom line is, the second you put UFO on the label.
It's basically consigned to the round file by the mainstream media.
You know, back in 1989, my very first public appearance on this subject was on Larry King Live in connection with the sightings that were taking place in the USSR in the city of Vironish.
Well, we'll have time after the top of the hour, Don.
I've tasted some of that myself.
I wrote a book called The Coming Global Superstorm, went on the Today Show and got knocked around for it.
And then a year later, all of a sudden, it's all over the mainstream press.
CNN Today running stories warning how awful the weather is going to be getting, that coastal cities are going to be inundated.
All of a sudden, it's breaking all over the place.
So I've had a taste of that, kind of getting laughed at.
Dries of humor.
You know, I've had it all.
Believe me, I've had it all.
So I know the press does do that.
Hold on, Don.
Don Ecker from UFO magazine is my guest, and he's certainly right about the press.
And the UFO label brings the same kind of chuckle at the end.
Even if they treat the beginning of the story fairly seriously, they end it with a laugh, which means that you're supposed to be laughing too.
Well, some of this may not be a laughing matter.
A lot of it may not be a laughing matter.
So, keep an open mind, folks, and stay tuned.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
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You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 19, 2001.
We've been traveling far without our home, but not without a star, only one thing free with hug unclothes.
Hang on to a dream.
Ooh, you can dance, you can dance, having a time on your mind.
Ooh, see that girl, watch that scene, begin dancing free.
Friday night and the night's alone, looking out for a place to go.
We're the same about music, getting in between, you'll come to work for a thing.
Anybody could see that guy, night is young and the music is fun.
We're the big rock music, everything's fun, you're in the mood for dance.
And when you get the chance, you are.
You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Freevier Radio Networks, tonight's an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 19th, 2001.
Well, we're hoping it's going to be out later this year.
But you know, when you're talking about items like this, about the moon, about the UFO subject in general art, what we're really talking about is items of national security.
And where national security is involved, one can never be sure of what the truth is.
You know, I just had pointed Out to me that going all the way back to the very beginning of our space race, back when we were still launching Atlas rockets off, one of the first missions that was sent up, the public was told it was a weather satellite, when, in fact, it was an early prototype of a spy satellite.
These kind of things, the public is continuously being lied to about items that affect national security.
And what could be more potentially destructive to national security than the fact that we have encountered someone from somewhere else?
You've got to admit, if nothing else, that that would cause a lot of people in government, very high people, to raise their eyebrows and be very concerned about this.
Here's George, who writes, isn't it possible, Don, that the top of the item on the uphill side of the track fell off, referring now to the rolling rock, and rolled downhill and made that track.
What I'm asking is if Guy has any information that he can provide to us pertaining to the pulse detonation engine that is being tested, as well as any information that he may have concerning the Admiral Emmons' work on the magnetic field engine that is cooled several thousand degrees Kelvin and basically is an anti-gravity device that many people are seeing that is the anti-gravity.
Not more than about a year or so ago, there were some experiments that were taking place in Europe where a type of magnetics was employed that neutralized gravity.
I'm trying to remember now if that was Sweden or Norway.
Yeah, I was wondering, during a lunar eclipse about two years ago, up on the northern hemisphere, just say northeast of the Sea of Tranquility, as the sun was coming back across the limb, I caught a really hellacious reflection.
This is the report that was prepared for NASA during the Apollo program that details 400 years of these types of occurrences that actually go back in history much, much further than 400 years.
But these are actual events that NASA's catalog.
We're talking about hundreds and hundreds of events.
And you're going to see that this was something that was not nearly as unusual as you might have been led to believe initially.
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Because when I saw that, Hoguen immediately came to mind.
And second of all, I hate to be the smart alec in the crowd, but it was the Velas that discovered that eruption off South Africa.
Well, DSP actually has been in operation since the early 70s.
One of the people that used to work at Aerojet, a gentleman that I, over the years, have interviewed several times, was a fellow By the name of Lee Graham, who basically made a nuisance out of himself with Freedom of Information Act requests about the DSP spy satellite.
And one of the things that Graham discovered was he was trying to prove that the DSP could detect unidentified flying objects within the Earth's atmosphere.
Discovered that back in the early 70s, the DSP was picking up was identifying meteorites that flew into the Earth's atmosphere.
So I'm not going to argue that it wasn't the DSP that detected that flash off of South Africa, but that was my understanding.
unidentified
Okay, well, thank you so much, gentlemen, and good morning to you both.
Okay, back in the early and mid-1980s, it was not well known here in the West.
But NASA and the Soviet Space Agency were tentatively planning the possibility of a manned mission to Mars sometime after 2012, 2013, somewhere in that area.
And along with those plans, Russia prepared, the Soviet Union, at that time it was still the USSR, prepared two probes to go to Mars.
They were Phobos 1 and Phobos 2.
And I, just through the purest luck, ended up being advised about this by a very good friend of mine, a gentleman that you may be aware of, a fellow by the name of Zacharias Sitchin.
Sitchin wrote a book called, well, he wrote a number of books.
A book in particular was a book titled Genesis Revisited.
And in that particular book, he talked about one of the Phobos craft that encountered a huge anomaly while it was in orbit around Mars.
Now, just about that time, Soviet, former Soviet Air Force Colonel Dr. Marina Popovich was coming over to the United States.
And Dr. Popovich had formerly been married to General Pavel Popovich, who was the first Soviet cosmonaut to rendezvous with another craft while in orbit back in, I think it was 1962.
And I was going down to Arizona where she was going to be speaking at a conference with the intention of interviewing her.
I ended up doing that over a two-day period.
And she told me a lot of very amazing stuff.
She was over here primarily talking about UFO events that were happening in the former USSR.
And during this two days, it was on the second day that I asked her about the Soviet Phobos mission.
Now, Popovich was absolutely shocked that I knew anything about it.
And as I was to discover, the Russians launched these probes in July of 1988.
NASA was a very large part of this mission.
As a matter of fact, all the telemetry coming back from the probes were being fed through Goldstone.
And NASA had a number of scientific experiments on board the Russian craft.
Now, as these two craft took off, the Russians lost their first probe, Phobos 1, roughly a month or so after liftoff.
They blamed that loss on a combination of both computer and human error.
However, the second craft got to Mars.
And it was in January of 1989 when it took up an orbiting position around Mars.
Now they were doing a lot of things.
They were taking photographs.
This particular craft also had on board a very powerful Russian laser.
Very powerful.
Now what the plan was, was that NASA and the Russians hoped that if they in fact put together a joint mission after the beginning of this century, the 21st century, that they would use one of the Martian moons, actually a moonlit, Phobos, as a base.
The plan was to send a craft out with the cosmonauts and astronauts on board, dock on the Phobos moon, and then use that as a stepping stone to go down to Mars.
Now, one of the things they wanted to find out is what exactly is Phobos made out of?
You know, if you go back and check the history, you'll find out that as late as the late 50s, early 1960s, there was a heck of a controversy over whether Phobos may have been a huge artificial object.
It was the Russians that originally brought this idea to the forefront because of the very peculiar orbit that the Martian moonlet Phobos is in.
It's in a retrograde orbit.
And some very other odd things about Phobos and the other moonlet, Deimos.
Now, the craft was to go into orbit around the moon, Phobos.
The Russians wanted to fire the laser into the moonlet, analyze the gases.
The NASA experiments on board were going to be flown down to the surface of Phobos itself.
Now, while all this was going on, suddenly something happened that was totally unexpected.
Phobos was taking a series of photographs.
When something came into the picture, it took one final photograph when this object struck their craft.
It turned it into a spinner.
Now that's beyond any argument.
That happened.
The Russians themselves said that something struck their craft.
25 kilometers in length and 1 1��2 kilometers in diameter.
That computes to 1 mile in diameter, 15 1��2 miles long.
This was just unbelievable.
Now, after I showed that photo for the first time, as a matter of fact, it was on CNN again, I expected that we would get a lot of questions from news media around the country and around the world.
It was basically virtually ignored.
And this was an actual Soviet-Russian photograph of a 15 1��2 mile anomaly.
Now, what made this anomaly so unusual, Art?
It was like a huge, long cigar.
I mean, it's obvious that it was not a rock or an asteroid or something like that.
It was a very long cigar right off of the Phobos moon itself.
Now, some of the skeptics later on tried to say that it was a computer glitch in the data stream is what caused this thing.
But the photograph was taken in the infrared.
And both the moonlit Phobos and this craft are virtually unmistakable.
Well, Sitchin, among others, have suggested that, that uh.
not only the moon but mars has an operating base of some type being utilized by visitors from somewhere else and i guess we won't truly know until we go back there caller is that what you were curious about with regard to mars how's that for an answer that's uh i'm familiar with that with that uh story like i said i've read genesis revisited i've read most of zacharia situation's books but i was curious when uh u.s when a stabled mission does end up going to mars will um obviously the government is going to pull the wool over our
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again I mean you don't echo and like rich Oakland they're gonna be watching this bear that very closely because I mean they want to make sure everything's done you know tip for tap making sure they're not being fooled again so that's especially my my question your opinion would be what would they you know well if we if we go to Mars with the man mission and big yeah let's we're not even going back to the moon right now much less Mars let's not forget that that between the United States and the former Soviet Union,
have been well over 30 attempts to reach the red planet out of all those attempts only eight have actually gotten there right and so you know let's let's face it it's uh it's not good odds and if we send somebody i would imagine it won't be until well after perhaps 2020 maybe 2030.
And by the way, that signal on 3.39 is still there, and therefore I'm going to start the show in repeat in the next hour with the first hour so we can get that out to yet more people.
I want to know what that signal is and where it's coming from.
We'll get back to Don Ecker in a flash.
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Weird Stories on the Radio Must Be Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
You know, when I started doing this radio program, Jesse, half of the subjects I was really into, the paranormal, the unusual, ghosts, and things like that.
The conspiracy stories, you know, I was a little weary about these, other than the Kennedy assassination.
And all of a sudden, I woke up.
I simply woke up.
Is that what happened with you two?
Yeah, that's when I really started to say, what is going on here?
And I started to truly then investigate 9-11.
And today, I don't believe the government story of 9-11.
Here's the three options.
Either we knew about it and allowed it to happen, or we knew about it and participated in it, or these were the dumbest buffoons that could have ever been in charge of our country who could have all this pre-information.
And I started to think they knew it was going to happen.
They either are part of it or they allowed it to.
There's no doubt in my mind.
Now we take you back to the night of February 19th, 2001, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Number one, they can click on my link on your website at www.ufo mag, m-ag, ufomag.com.
They can also call toll-free.
And we've done over the years a number of specials on the moon.
We have two primary lunar issues right now that we wanted to make available because I was going to be doing this program.
And if you are interested in either of those, because there's basically they're chocked full of information, the first one we did was back in March, April of 1995.
That's, God, I forget now.
Volume 10, number 2.
And much more recently, our Moon Secrets issue is volume 14, number 7.
Either of those are available.
If you buy one, it's $7.95.
We'll ship it right out to you.
If you want them both, it's only $14.
And if you mention that you heard about it on the Art Bell show, you take a subscription out for $19.99 for one year.
My question was, the anomaly that we see on the photos with the stone that is rolling across the lunar surface, is that anything similar to what they see in the Mojave Desert with very large stones that are traveling across the surface of the desert without being moved by machinery?
And also, I have another question for Art when we're done with this one.
Okay, now, those particular cases you're talking about that take place out in the Mojave.
I know a lot of people over the years have researched those.
The research that I'm familiar with concerning the Mojave Desert moving stones is that when it rains out there, and it does rain, not often, but when it does, it rains a lot, there is some type of process that have caused these stones to move because of the water action.
On the moon, of course, there's no weather, there's no moisture to speak of, and it doesn't explain how these things came up and out of a crater.
And when you look at the larger of those two objects, I am convinced, number one, that is not a rolling stone or rock, that it is some type of equipment.
What makes me think that is when you look very close, you can almost see the axles coming out of the side of that and the very unusual tread that it's leaving in the lunar dust.
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Yep, I can see that.
So the correlation, it's not similar with, it's not water moving the stones on the lunar surface.
And so the action would not be the same as what we're seeing in the Mojave Desert then?
There is a weathering of a type on the moon, and that's billions and billions of years.
I sound like Carl Sagan there, of meteorite impacts.
And over the billions of years that this has been going on, there has been a weathering process of a type.
So, you know, I don't know what to tell you.
It's obvious that there are tracks there.
There are footprints.
I've seen the photographs.
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You know, honestly, I think anyone who open-mindedly looks at the evidence against a moon landing and still believes there's a moon landing would have to be either brain-dead or believe in the Easter bunny.
Sir Arthur Clark, I thought, made a crashingly good remark with regard to the reflectors and the laser stuff we were talking about earlier.
Yeah, I think we went.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Don Ecker.
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Hi.
Hi.
Hello.
Dave from Winston-Salem.
Hi.
Hi.
Well, he was talking about the moisture.
I wondered about that because I saw the rover go across and it was throwing up all types of crap.
It was like getting a wheel.
And it was just throwing dirt and everything up.
And this stuff was going up and then coming back down just like you were going on the beach.
But anyway, what I called about, when they go to the moon, the Japanese go, I think if I remember right, it's scheduled for about one year and six months from now.
When they go, if they go there and they don't find the modules or the rovers or anything like that, that'll solve that problem.
But if we have not gone and it was actually in reality, like you were saying, that we wanted to get there before the Russians, so we made it up, if the Japanese get there first, will we have to change our history for the first person on the planet?
Right, because, see, if we have not gone to the moon in reality, and they send a probe up there, and then they send a manned project there to the moon, I know my grandfather, he's very American, very, very, very gun-ho.
And if he had to say that the country we beat got to the moon first in the year 2004, he'd be, you know, it'd basically be kicking him in the teeth.
I think this entire argument about whether we went to the moon or not is basically a straw man argument.
I'm convinced there's no doubt we did go to the moon.
Now, if for no other reason, and Art had mentioned this at the very early part of the program, what Arthur C. Clarke, Sir Arthur Clarke, said about it, we put laser detectors up there that we could bounce laser beams off the moon.
Now, if we didn't go there, how would we have gotten those detectors up there?
If for no other reason, I think that answered the question right there.
And the second thing somebody else had mentioned earlier in the program, had we have tried to lie about going to the moon, hoaxing going to the moon, back in 1969, 1970, at the height of the Cold War where we were threatening the Russians and the Russians were threatening us with nuclear annihilation, believe me, they would have made it very plain to the globe that the Americans lied about this.
So this whole argument, you know, I've got to say it's a bunch of BS.
And I'm glad that Don just mentioned the strawman argument because I'm not saying what he's saying is right or wrong, but I believe the argument I hear from him and several other people that the fact that we have not been back to the moon as evidence for a conspiracy is in itself a straw man argument.
I grew up around the space program.
My father was in the space industry.
I met a lot of the greats in the space program, the Apollo program.
I taught at space camp.
I've heard lots of lectures from people.
And the general theory feeling among the community is that there's not much interest in going back to the moon.
I know there's been some discoveries on the moon as of late.
However, a lot of people didn't even want to go to the moon to begin with.
Werner von Braun, for instance, never wanted to go.
I've got to disagree with your contention that nobody wanted or that many people did not want to go to the moon.
For two superpowers like the Soviet Union in the 1960s and the United States to spend close to $50 billion and rubles in a race to get there with all the planning that we were doing at that time,
putting lunar bases on the moon, a military outpost, because let's not forget there were a lot of people as early as 1958-59 that wanted to see an American military presence on the moon.
And with the potential for colonization, manufacturing, raw resources, to suddenly, arbitrarily stop when we had additional missions paid for, additional astronauts trained to go, the rockets sitting in place, and then for NASA to say, well, we lost interest in it.
I don't know what the true reason was.
I wasn't privy to it.
But I'll tell you what, if you try to convince me it's because we lost interest, I'm going to have a huge belly laugh.
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Well, you know, I hear what you're saying, and I've actually seen the Saturn V rockets laying down, resting with animals living in the engines.
But the general feeling is that there's not that much science to be done on the moon.
There's really not much reason to spend a huge problem.
Well, it wouldn't surprise me, and I think it would not surprise Sir Arthur Clarke as well, because he's theorized for a long time that an alien civilization might well use the moon as it was used in 2001, as kind of a, well, you're here now, so you're in space, so we are going to notice you kind of deal, right?
One of the largest skeptics in recent years, and of course he's gone now, was Dr. Carl Sagan.
When it came to the UFO phenomenon, the UFO subject, he was publicly very, very skeptical, dismissive of it.
However, in the early 1960s, when he was still a fresh young scientist, he stated before a meeting of the American Rocket Association out here in Los Angeles that when we got to the moon, because we were planning then in 61, 62 to go to the moon, when we got to the moon, don't be surprised if we find that somebody else has already landed up there.