Colm Kelleher of NIDS, funded by Bob Bigelow’s foundation, details how zero-gravity manufacturing may explain UFOs’ advanced capabilities while linking abductions to a 1300-hour local sidereal time pattern—found in 130,000 cases. NARCAP’s 100 verified air safety incidents and Quintinilla’s unpublished 1975 Project Blue Book manuscript (now on NIDS’s site) challenge the Air Force’s dismissive stance. Kelleher suggests future congressional hearings could reframe UFOs as security threats, not just secrecy concerns, hinting at unresolved mysteries in both technology and government transparency. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and or good morning wherever you may be across this great land of ours from the island of Guam in the west across the Bayline, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north all the way to the Poland worldwide on the internet.
This is coast to coast AM and I'm Mark Bell.
Good morning, where we can have a busy night tonight.
Lots and lots to do.
Let me first catch you up on a few new things on the website.
Actually, there's a lot of new stuff on the website tonight.
I have had so much communication about Maggie.
Maggie, we call her the liner girl.
Well, Maggie has cut a new liner for me.
And just wait till you hear this one.
What a job.
And you'll notice in here, she says, as I pointed out before, from the desert of the sea.
And it has been pointed out to me that before this was a desert, this place where I lived near Area 51, it was a sea.
In other words, it was a sea.
I mean, you can find seashells and the rocks and that sort of thing.
So you know there was a sea here at some point in the past.
And so the more I thought about it and other people thought about it, the more they thought, now, how and why did she say that?
And so she made, anyway, she made a new liner, and I think you'll enjoy this one.
But in the meantime, that audio is on the website, and three new photographs of Maggie are up there, too.
That's the first item in the What's New.
Also, What's New is you may recall we had Peter Davenport on and somehow the fifth hour of Peter Davenport didn't get saved.
Well, we've got it up there for you now.
The Missing Davenport Hour, those of you who didn't get to hear it, it's up on the website now in some form that you can listen to after the show.
Never listen to these kinds of things, you know, while the actual live show is on.
So, we've got that.
There's something coming up on this creature called the Skunk Ape Creature.
Oh, you're not going to believe what's coming up in a minute here.
But first, let me welcome some new affiliates to the network.
There is KRRM-FM, Rogue River, Grants Pass, Oregon, 94.7 on the dial.
And I'd like to say hi to Herb and Shirley Bell.
Great names, Herb and Shirley.
That's KRRM FM playing traditional country music all day and Coast to Coast AM all night long.
And that's occurring more and more, by the way.
Stations playing this or that in the way of music during the day have decided that, well, there is more in the world than music.
And you know I love music, but in the all-night slot, there's some pretty interesting talk to be had.
So more and more radio stations are doing that.
And I'd like to welcome KXXL in Brownwood, Texas, 1240 on the dial.
WNWQ, that's a good set of call letters, WNWQ, it kind of rolls off easily.
In Palm Springs, California, 1140 on the dial.
Big 10 kilowatts there, too.
Palm Springs.
How about KGOE up in Eureka, California, not too far from the Bobster Seat Grain Company?
KGOE, 1480 on the dial in Eureka.
Also WDXN in Clarksville, Tennessee.
Clarksville, Tennessee.
540 on the dial there.
Welcome to all of you as we continue to add affiliates at a lightning rate.
I mean, it's just incredible what's going on.
I've got to touch on just a little bit of the news before we get to our expert for the night.
By the way, we're going to be doing, I promised you we would do one more hour of predictions.
And we will, but it's going to be the final hour of the program tonight as opposed to the first because of the importance of what we're about to do.
Well, with its rockets firing, ladies and gentlemen, an American spacecraft has floated toward Eros, hit once, bounce high, and then settled, that's not a settling sound, onto the barren rocky surface as mankind's first robot visitor to an asteroid.
A strong radio signal, interrupted only briefly during the bounce, proved that the craft was never designed to land, had, in fact, come to a featherweight touchdown on Eros, more than 196 million miles from Earth, astounding even the officials overseeing the mission.
And it's still working.
It was, of course, the first time an American craft had made an initial unmanned landing on an outer space body.
Unmanned Soviet craft arrived first on the moon, Venus, and Mars, but were first to land on an asteroid.
And we'll have to see what that yields.
Other news breaking, the court has said Napster must stop.
A federal appeals court signaled the end of Napster's free internet song swapping service Monday, saying the music industry will almost surely win its lawsuit against the digital entertainment provider.
Under the ruling from the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, the company must somehow stop the millions of people who use it as a clearinghouse to swap copyrighted music without charge and without restriction.
And, you know, I have mixed feelings about it.
I know a lot of you think it's a raw deal.
But really the raw deal is the artist, you know, who has his music taken without payment.
And the other people who get hurt are the internet providers because of the way Napster works.
It kind of turns everybody into a server.
And boy, that does some strange things to internet providers.
So I imagine they're probably rejoicing this morning, as a lot of you are probably not.
So I understand both sides of that coin.
All right.
You know, we posted some pictures, apparently a little early, of a skunk ape, so-called skunk ape, a creature, some kind of creature.
And I just kind of put them up there, and I, you know, you know, you heard the fellow who brought him on the show the other day.
At least I hope you did.
And he received the photograph from a friend who got it from a lady who supposedly took it in Florida, not exactly knowing what she was taking a photograph of, took second photograph, took a good look at what she had just taken a picture of, and split.
And who can blame her?
Well, this story is ratcheting up a little bit.
It looks like the experts are saying, well, maybe, maybe there is something here.
Matter of fact, I've got a cryptozoologist, Lauren Coleman, one of the world's best, coming up in a moment, who's going to comment on these photographs.
So if you haven't seen them yet, go to my website, click on what's new, and you'll see skunk ape photos.
By all means, take a look, particularly based on what you're about to hear.
Skunk ape photos.
I don't know if that's the right word, or if it should be Bigfoot, or if Bigfoot is a skunk ape, or a skunk ape is a Bigfoot.
That's what we're going to ask Lauren Coleman coming up here in a moment.
So stay right where you are.
unidentified
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But you know, you don't have to be nocturnal to enjoy this amazing show.
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You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 12, 2001.
Music All right, so what about this skunk ape, this whatever in the world it is?
We were on it a little bit early, I guess, maybe earlier than we should have been.
It seems the Tampa, Florida, in Tampa, Florida, the Tampa Tribune, has published an article in today's paper called Absolute Kinda Irrefutable Proof of Skunk Ape.
Big story.
And we've got a link to that on the website, too, if you want to see it.
Lauren Coleman, thank goodness we have him.
He's one of the world's leading cryptozoologists, an honorary member of the British Columbia Scientific Cryptozoology Club and several other international organizations.
He is also a life member of the International Society of Cryptozoology.
He's written books and more than 200 articles on the subject, has appeared frequently on radio and television programs, has lectured from Idaho to Loch Ness, has been both on-and-off camera consultant to NBC's Unsolved Mysteries, A ⁇ E's Ancient Mysteries, In Search of History, Discovery Channels in the Unknown, and other reality-based programs.
Homan, born 12 July 1947 in Norfolk, Virginia, has been investigating in the field and in the library cryptoological evidence and folklore since the abominable snowman caught his interest back in 1960.
This woman had had visitations from this thing that her husband actually called an orangutan.
He had come on her porch a couple times, ate some apples.
The third night that he came back, she went out in the backyard, went near what she calls her hedgerow, just pointed her camera in that direction, and took these two quick shots.
And on December 22nd, she sent the letter to the Sheriff's Department.
They were kind of joking around with it.
And David, who's involved in animal welfare, has a snake shop down there, heard about this through the animal control folks and was able to get the photographs and then send them to me.
And I had put them on my website a couple days before you, and I think that's where Mr. Aiken probably got.
All right, so everybody who wants to see the enhanced versions, go now up to my website.
Just go to the program material for tonight.
You'll see Lauren Coleman's name, and the website will be there.
Go over and take a look at the enhanced versions of these.
They're incredible photographs, Lauren.
unidentified
Yes, they are.
I mean, what's really remarkable, and like I was telling you earlier today when we talked about this, is when I wrote the book Mysterious America and talked about how the really history of the skunk ape has changed in the last 20 years.
A skunk ape, for about 60 years in the Florida, the southern United States, there's been what are really chimpanzee orangutan-like creatures that have been reported.
They're smaller than the Pacific Northwest Bigfoot.
The Pacific Northwest Bigfoot is from 6 feet to 9 feet tall.
These creatures are really in the range of 6.5 feet down to 3 feet.
They go on all fours.
They sometimes project themselves upward, but they leave a footprint and they look very much like anthropoids, like chimps, like greater apes, as opposed to the traditional Bigfoot, which is really very man-like, very humanoid.
They leave a footprint that's with all five toes out straight forward, the Bigfoot does.
These skunk apes really leave footprints in which it looks much more like the human hand.
They have a toe that's out to the side.
Very ape-like.
So, but what unfortunately has happened with the kind of the globalization of Bigfoot, everybody, you know, in Malaysia uses the word Bigfoot to talk about the Yeti or the yowie or the skunk ape.
So since the Patterson film, which was filmed in 1967 in California, or Harry and the Henderson, everybody has this image in their head of this gigantic hair-covered creature.
But what's fascinating about these pictures is they confirm exactly what myself and some other researchers have been saying we should expect to find in Florida.
Something that looks much more anthropoid.
You know, people are saying that this looks like an orangutan.
The only problem, of course, is the orangutans are much redder.
And this creature, as you can see on their website, is really kind of browny, much darker, almost black.
And the head is shaped like an orangutan, but the muzzle and the white beard is much more like a chimpanzee.
So it's not really fitting with any known anthropoid or pungid that we know about.
But it's quite close to what we...
If these pictures are authentic, and I think we always have to, as scientists, as cryptozoologists, have to hold out.
You know, somebody could be pulling our leg, but what's...
So everything's more or less where it's supposed to be.
Right, right.
unidentified
The other one as far as a man in a suit, obviously that could happen.
Some people have pointed out they think the fur looks funny, but I have dug up some historical records on orangutans and chimpanzees that show that hair that can look matted like this.
So we're still looking.
I think the other part of it being a hoax, of course, is this woman is unidentified.
The picture of the creature, which I'm sitting here looking at right now, number one, it looks pretty big.
There's a lot of bulk to this creature, isn't there?
unidentified
Yeah, I think they're relatively heavy.
If you look below some of the talmanos right there, you can see that either the foot or the leg reaches all the way to the bottom of the better picture.
And then you have a pretty wide creature here.
We're getting some measurements of those, but probably those plants are about four and a half feet tall.
So this creature is about that high.
But then in the second photograph where it backs up and stands up, you can see that it can increase its height.
If the lady, this older lady, took the first photograph, and when the flash went off, if she actually saw this creature, she never would have taken a second photograph.
unidentified
I've been talking to some camera experts and she may have, her camera may have been one of these that recycled three times in one second.
Now, an obvious question is, how we've always asked this about Bigfoot.
How could Bigfoot exist in modern America and not be found?
Well, of course, occasionally we do have reports and the occasional picture even moving video or whatever, but not very much contact.
I mean, really, people say, well, then how could it exist in contemporary America and not be seen just every now and then?
unidentified
Right.
Well, you have a couple things going here.
First, primates are very intelligent.
Skunk apes, Bigfoot, Yeti, different things like that, are not going to do anything other than avoid man.
They know where the danger is, and so they're going to avoid humans.
The other thing, it's quite surprising to people, but if you look at the land surface of Africa, only 28% of the land surface of Africa is wilderness.
You know what that is for North America?
38%.
I live in a state in which 95% of the state in Maine is covered with trees.
In Florida, you get past the coast and you have a vast wilderness area of grasslands, of swamps in the middle of the state.
And in the MyAca area where these were seen, it's relatively undeveloped.
And so you have a state park there, you have a river, you have greenbelts, and you have swamp.
And also different conservation lands and religious groups have put land aside and they don't like people to come on it.
And it's very interesting, the reports in 1963 through 1966 in the counties north of this, on that coast of the west coast of Florida, were in the Mormon lands, the lands of the desert ranch.
And so here we have again a situation where not in the Everglades, not in the southern part where you've had a lot of hoaxes during the 90s, but once again on the west coast of Florida we're seeing these photographs which are quite remarkable.
If this creature does exist and we're looking at it, how long would you imagine that it has been walking the earth?
unidentified
Well, as long as we have.
I mean, these as long as chimpanzees, whether or not they've been in this area of Florida for that long is another thing, but we do have Native American legends from the South, from Louisiana, of these creatures, of these more ape-like creatures.
There's been a big controversy for a long time regarding what to do with the first one of these or Bigfoot, for example, that would be cornered would be a good way to put it.
Some people have said, well, you've got to kill one so we can examine it, you know, and dissect it and tear it apart and figure out what it is, what makes it tick, why it's still here, as much as we can learn about it.
Others have said, oh no, that would be murder.
unidentified
Right.
The whole kill versus no-kill debate in Bigfoot can be, you know, projected on the skunk ape, too.
I think the part that people forget about is a lot of newly discovered animals, and you do have to have a physical body, a physical specimen, are not killed.
You can capture and release.
You can do DNA tests.
You can do telebiology.
You can take pictures.
You can do all kinds of things short of killing an animal to prove it exists.
Well, there would have to be some crew nearby to accomplish that.
For example, if you were a sheriff's deputy, let's say, and you stumbled upon this, you probably wouldn't run up to it and try to cuff it.
unidentified
No, you'd probably get your tranquilizer gun, you'd bring in your animal control folks, and then you'd get the people from bush gardens and from the primate centers, and you'd have a media circus, but hopefully there would be some good cryptozoologists and zoologists fly in right away.
Okay, so your vote then is stun it, put it to sleep, and get it to bush gardens or someplace like that?
unidentified
Well, study it.
And then I think you create preserves.
You create reservoirs, you know, reservations of areas that you know these things exist, and then you protect them, and you put laws into effect right away.
It's been done with the coelacanth in Indonesia.
They discovered a whole population of 65 million-year-old fossil, living fossil coelacanths off of Indonesia Two years ago, and that whole area now is a protected area.
Lauren, if we were to capture one of these creatures, what might we learn?
unidentified
Well, I think we'd learn that we're not alone.
I think that a lot of people think that human beings are the most intelligent primates that walk upright.
And I think Bigfoot and skunk apes and things like that would show us that there's probably a lot more surprises on this earth than we could ever imagine.
Well, if we were as bright as we thought we were, then we'd already have one of these alive somewhere, and we don't.
unidentified
Well, yes and no.
I mean, if you look back at the history of the mountain gorilla, they looked for the mountain gorilla for some 60 years, and they only found the first mountain gorilla in 1901.
Yours is one, a very important voice, of course, but there are others.
And I take it you've probably picked up the phone and talked to some who have seen the photos.
unidentified
Yeah, I think it's the whole spectrum.
I think, for one thing, there's lots of people that rightfully so are holding off any kind of judgment until, I mean, there's lots of speculation this is a hoax or it's not authentic or that, you know, there isn't a woman who wrote a letter that somebody's trying to pull a fast one.
But then there's the other end of the spectrum where you have some genuine interest.
Some primatologists have been talking to me and they're very interested in this developing story.
They want to, of course, fly low under the radar, but they're listening closely.
They're watching.
And I've been hearing from people from Romania and Russia and Vietnam, Australia.
Well, Americans become so cynical about modern photography in the digital world and people doing hoaxes that I suppose even if you had a perfectly clear, high-resolution photo of a Bigfoot, at least half of those who looked would cry foul.
unidentified
Yes.
And it's funny because how else would you expect something like this to come about but by some little old lady going about trying to protect her yard by taking a picture?
And it just has so innocently come about.
And yet, obviously, there's going to be people to say, you know, this is a hoax or, you know, Art Bell is just trying to make a big splash or something like that.
I think that most primates are protected in the laws of Florida.
And so probably someone would get in trouble very quickly if they shot one of these.
But there also is laws in most states that if people feel like they're attacked.
What we find about the skunk apes, though, they generally seem to be more timid than some of the Midwestern reports you hear about Bigfoot attacking dogs and things like that.
Would you think that if you got too close and that if it felt threatened, it would hurt a human?
unidentified
No, I think all I've read and heard and interviewed witnesses for the last 40 years is that they do have bluff techniques in which they try to rush towards you or beat on their chest or make loud sounds, but I've not heard of any active attacks in the southern of these southern apes.
Well, if it beat its chest or rushed toward me, I'd be going.
It would work.
Yes, exactly.
What further study are you going to be able to do with these photographs, or have you now gone as far as you can go?
unidentified
No, no, there's some wonderful pixel analysis people working around the country and in other countries on this photograph, looking at minute details of the fingernails, whether or not there's spaces in some of the teeth.
People who have gone into this looking at this picture very skeptically are coming back to me on the third and fourth look and they're saying, you know, I'm getting down to the level that there's dimension here.
I thought so when I first saw it, but I've been dealing with the pixel people so long that I just sort of reserve comment and I say go ahead, tear it apart, have at it.
Here are the photographs, see what you can do.
unidentified
Exactly.
We have to do that.
And I've been real happy and surprised with what have been the initial results.
If this creature exists, then isn't there some reason to go ahead and believe that Bigfoot could just as easily be as real as this creature?
unidentified
Well, I think that we have to look at the predominance of evidence.
You know, we have to accept the building body of evidence, of footprints, of photographs, and it's quite remarkable.
Once again, an overused word, I guess, for me tonight, but this is a remarkable photograph, and I think it lends much to all of our hopes for other cryptozoological discoveries around America.
Or I suppose, obviously, if they suddenly were to capture one, I'm sure you'd be down there in a flash.
unidentified
Right.
Well, yeah, I've been to Florida quite often since 1978 on various expeditions, and I plan to go down probably sometime this spring as soon as there's no ice between here and there.
By the way, you brought up something else that I hadn't thought of.
You're absolutely right.
That poor lady who took this photograph, for obvious reasons, you wouldn't want to give your name, but then to keep people out of your yard, to keep the Bubbas out of your yard, you definitely wouldn't want to give your name.
unidentified
Exactly.
And I mean, it's kind of nice that the Tampa Tribune did publish an article today, and they mentioned David, and they did some quotes from experts and different things like that without naming the experts.
But there's also this tinge of ridicule in the article.
So they should have really, with this photograph, of course they're not a good judge of that, but they really should have treated this a little more seriously.
unidentified
Yeah, well, and at least they published it, and at least they're talking about it.
So maybe somebody, you know, I really respect how you seriously deal with things, and I think that our hope is that more people will look at this in a serious way so that we can get to the bottom of it.
Good morning, and if you missed the first hour, you missed something really important.
One of the world's leading cryptozoologists, Lauren Coleman, was here because this skunk ape thing, the photographs we've got of this so-called skunk ape in Florida, have really blown up since we got them up last week.
Lauren Coleman had already been working on all of this in private, and he's a heavyweight, and he thinks it may be the real thing.
So we talked about that for an hour, and you may want to go take a look.
We've got a link to Lauren Coleman's website.
He's got enhanced photographs of this whatever it is, this skunk ape.
And you may be seeing something for the first time.
That's worth seeing.
So if you get an opportunity, go to my website right now at www.artfell.com and take a look at this creature or take another look or take a look at the enhanced photographs.
They're available.
If you go to, you know, Who's On Tonight, you'll see Lauren Coleman was kind of shoved in there at the last moment, bless his heart, all the way from Maine.
And he commented for an hour on these photographs.
And it's an incredible story, and it's absolutely an incredible creature.
There's no question about it.
So you want to see something you never saw before that Lauren is leaning toward believing may be real?
It's all on my website right now at www.artbell.com.
This hour we turn our attention in a new and very exciting direction.
National Institute for Discovery Science.
What is that?
We'll find out.
My guest is Colum Culleher.
He's Deputy Administrator of NIDS and oversees day-to-day investigations, research projects, reports, and NIDS staff.
That's a lot to do.
He has a PhD in biochemistry with multiple years experience in biomedical research, including genetic engineering, viruses, immunology, and brain-immune crosstalk.
And he's got a lot to talk to us about because it's been a long time.
He's backed by the Bigelow Foundation, and Bob Bigelow is a good friend.
Bob Bigelow, he never likes me to say it.
He's a Godzillionaire, which is just sort of a term.
He doesn't actually have a Godzillion.
Not that there is such a thing as a Godzillion.
But he's got a bunch, and he uses it in areas that should interest all of you, and I know do interest all of you, in trying to root out scientifically answers to so many of the things that we're puzzled by on this program and that we deal with.
So coming up in a moment, Colm Culler.
unidentified
Colm Culler You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 12, 2001.
And as I mentioned, a part of the Bigelow Foundation, or certainly funded in part by the Bigelow Foundation, Bob Bigelow does have a lot of resources to pour into legitimate scientific investigation of the unusual, the paranormal, whatever it is you want to call it.
They're doing very serious research.
They have investigators that can be dispatched to any point in the world, really, where anything unusual happens if it's justified.
And there are not too many organizations that have that ability and that resourcefulness to be able to actually get in there and really do it quick.
Well, we have backed into this area of Sasquatch or Bigfoot or whatever you want to call that creature really through the back door.
And that is when we intensively study an area of the country, for example, Utah or New Mexico or even lately Montana, what we find is after people gain our trust and we gain people's trust, after the UFO reports and after the other reports, people start talking about software sightings or Bigfoot sightings.
Now, this has happened in three separate locations for us, and we really do not know what to do with these reports, and we have got quite a few of them.
We've had up-close sightings by law enforcement officials who are really good observers of the large standard 7 to 8 foot 500 pound animal within less than 100 feet sometimes.
In northern Utah, for example, we've had probably five to six separate reports of this kind of creature.
It bends it very much towards the paranormal, and that's where we end up.
We place the Bigfoot sightings in a category that we have not put a lot of intensive research into.
But at the same time, we know that the cryptozoology wing of the Bigfoot study groups are very much against the whole idea of a UFO Bigfoot connection.
But it's kind of ironic because we're not exactly looking for these Bigfoot reports, but yet we get them all the time.
As I mentioned, we get them in Utah, we get them in New Mexico.
And we've just completed a fairly major study that I'll be talking about later around Great Falls, Montana.
And there was the same level of Bigfoot reports were tacked on to intensive UFO sightings.
There were quite a few, actually, in July, August, up around Whitefish and Calispels, there were quite a few reported there.
And they were pretty interesting because crop circles, as you know, over here are very different because you don't have the tram lines that you have over across the Atlantic in England where most of the crop formations are found.
So tracks are much more easily spotted in the fields over here.
And Montana, some of those photographs were pretty enlightening.
And no obvious tracks were seen in those photographs.
Well, you could make the point that the formations that you're looking at in North America right now are very closely approximated to the kinds of formations that were showing up in Britain in 1990.
Does that say something about the difference in geography or does it say something about the way they evolve over time in the United Kingdom?
Or people who maintain that the majority of these are hoaxes would say that the crop circle artists are getting more adept.
But over the Montana ones especially that we had a look at because we had people sample those up in Montana and they were pretty impressed with the lay of the crop in these circles.
Well, what they did was they photographed, there was an investigator up in Whitefish, Montana, photographed the formation.
And then we had a couple of people who sampled 20 different locations from around the second formation, the one that was in late August in Whitefish.
And we had a University of Nevada botanist take a look, and she was pretty impressed with the fact that all of the plants from inside of the circle had exactly the same breaks in the stem.
And none of the plants from outside of the circle obviously had that either.
So she was pretty impressed that it was a genuine article.
But the plants, by the time they arrived, were not in a condition where you could do much molecular analysis because they were collected in the absence of preservative.
Well, you know, we looked for things like exploded nodes and we looked for the standard features of crop formations that had been reported over in England.
There was none of that.
The breaks were very near the ground, but the lie of the formation as reported by the people up there was not consistent with boards.
So there is a bit of a paradox there.
We were not able to get into the molecular level because of the lack of preservatives.
A lot of people have thought that crop circles might be some attempt at education, and that's why in the early 90s they started out simply in Europe and became more and more complex as time went on.
Or you could imagine the guys with the boards and chains got better.
I don't know.
I don't know which to believe, but I wonder if we're going to follow a similar track here in North America.
In other words, they begin simple and they become more and more complex.
Well, certainly the types of formations that we're seeing up in Utah, for example, and also in Montana last summer were very reminiscent of the earlier ones.
Actually, they were pretty close to some of the early ones in 1988, 1990 in Britain.
So it'll be really interesting to see what kind of complexity it can be generated next summer.
Well, I'm pretty sure that there's a percentage, and I think it's a really variable percentage year to year, that are done not on the ground, from the air.
But whether that means that they're some kind of an experiment going on with aircraft, or if it's something more esoteric, I don't know.
But we're pretty sure that there is a percentage of these formations being done from the air.
In other words, they're not people going into the fields with boards or garden rollers or whatever else is used.
We've heard stories and propositions and hypotheses put out by fairly serious people regarding camouflaged silent aircraft with lasers, carbon lasers, or in other words, an attempt made to calibrate beam weapons.
And then we've heard other equally well-known physicists and other equally respected people shoot those theories down and say that's absolutely out of the question.
So there's a real debate going on in some physics people and engineering people.
Well, I think there are essentially four different features that distinguish us from other organizations, and that is that we have multiple experienced ex-law enforcement investigators.
In other words, we try to do investigations Of UFOs, paranormal phenomena associated with UFOs, and even animal mutilations, using police methodology, sort of making sure the chain of custody is intact and all of that.
I'm not saying that other organizations don't do that, but we have full-time people on our staff who are ex-police, retired police officers.
Secondly, we do have a lot of resources that we can deploy if we think that a particular case warrants it.
And that means we do have a, for example, recently we installed a 911 system, which is to take in calls from all over the country.
We have a digital recording system.
We have eight separate lines that can be simultaneously monitored.
And we have the ability, we think, to monitor UFO flap if and whenever a flap occurs.
So we do have resources.
We also have a staff of PhD level scientists, backgrounds in biology and physics, phenomenology.
And also we have a fairly, a very high-class science advisory board.
We have people who are in psychology, we have medical people, we have physics people, we have chemists, biologists, statisticians, people who are interested in our backgrounds in computer science, engineering.
So we feel that we have fairly deep pockets to draw on if we want to.
Well, I think, you know, definitely Bob Bigelow funds all of this.
He has funded NIDS since its inception.
And then even before that, he was funding projects in, as we talked about, crop circle research, in animal mutilation research, in different aspects of paranormal research, or parapsychology even.
So he has really contributed large amounts of money all across the spectrum.
And five years ago, he really brought everything together so that NIDS could be kind of a central organization where the research could be centralized here in Las Vegas and deployed around the country.
But motivation, I think his interests go way, way back.
His family, members of his family, had some very high-profile type sightings way back in the early days in the 40s.
And I think as a youngster, he was very impressed by the quality of those sightings and by the sincerity of the people who witnessed them.
And that was a real stimulant in moving him forward.
And I think that has evolved over the years, that burning interest to find out why or find out what, find out the basic questions regarding these phenomena, and especially the phenomenon pertaining to the UFO topic.
There's always been, I think even since NIDS has started, there's been a continuous flow of cases and research projects.
We started off, as an organization, we started off by deploying personnel and equipment up in northern Utah for literally for years and also in northern New Mexico for the same length of time.
And we spent a lot of time mapping the phenomenon.
In other words, down on the ground with whatever instruments we could deploy, with whatever observers we could deploy, and then interviewing eyewitnesses in the locality.
Well, I think Utah especially has a record that is pretty impressive in terms of a continuous generation after generation series of sightings that can be mapped all the way back to the 1940s.
Northern New Mexico, along Highway 84, that would be all the way from Chama, Dulcie, all the way across to Espaniola, would have the same kind of long history of UFO sightings.
We're at the bottom of the hour, and if everybody would run and get a pencil and paper, we're going to be giving you a very, very, very important 911 kind of telephone number to call if you're right in the middle of something happening.
I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
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This is Premier Networks.
That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
That was Art Bell hosting Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
If you could read my mind, love what a tale my thoughts could tell.
Just like an old-time movie about a ghost from a wishing well in a castle dark or a fortress strong with chains upon my feet.
You know that ghost is me and I will never be.
Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
One, personally observed and verified scientific fact.
It is humanly impossible to hear that little voice and not smile.
Two, regarding the desert of the sea, the same thought had occurred to me, and that is, Maggie gave an exact description.
Remember Whitley talking about the extraordinary children he's been meeting on his book and lecture tours?
Would it be so impossible to imagine that such a child would turn up in Perunk?
My opinion, Maggie is much, much older than her admittedly adorable superficial appearance.
America unites and speaks with one voice.
Give us more Maggie.
All right, Pellum Gullagher is my guest, and you're in for a real treat as we begin to describe some of the recent research done by NIDS.
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get into some pretty strange stuff coming right up.
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Let's talk a little bit about the shadow government.
Do you believe it's there?
Yeah, we've heard that term, you know, for so many years, and I thought it was this group in the Netherlands that sit behind smoked windows and make decisions like, you know, giant players of chess.
But it isn't.
We don't have the government anymore.
What we have is a loose coalition of bureaucracies.
But we have no representation in that government.
So when I look at the Constitution, I see it as a really inspired and eternal document that has been sidestepped in almost every legal way possible.
So the process itself has been intentionally manipulated to facilitate a certain style of government.
And it's taken a while to set up, but I think it's set up now and it's working just the way they like it.
We need a systemic change in order to let the Republic be representative of the people again.
Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
Once again, back to Colum Culliher, who is the deputy administrator of NIDS, an overseas day-to-day investigation.
So he's really got to talk to you about this sort of thing.
Colum, let me ask you this.
The lady who allegedly took the photograph of this creature down in Florida didn't want her name used.
And I certainly can't say I blame her for a variety of reasons.
She didn't want people tromping around in her backyard.
She didn't want people laughing at her.
She didn't want to be the object of ridicule.
And we're about to give out a number for NIDS, a kind of a 911 sort of number for UFO reports, for what have you, all aspects, I guess, pretty much of the paranormal.
If somebody calls NIDS and wants, you know, they don't want to end up on the front page of their local newspaper, that's understandable.
Well, if they call tonight, you'll have two people actually who will be talking to them.
That will be Connie Van Horn and Mindy Floyd.
And what we do is we guarantee absolutely confidentiality when people call us.
We don't release any data at all without express permission from the people who originally called in.
And then later on after tonight, we'll probably have a quick conversation tonight.
After tonight, we will have an investigator follow-up probably tomorrow on people who call tonight.
And we go through an itemized series of questions that will pinpoint all of the details of the sighting.
And we take either recent or historical sightings.
Obviously, we prefer recent.
And the most, the highest preference would be anything to do with physical traces.
In other words, any effects, electromagnetic effects on cars, cell phones, hearing aids, you name it, TVs, or else any effects on animals, any physical traces that are left on the ground, any burn marks on the ground if they see objects landing.
They're the real cases that interest us, and we have noticed that those types of cases are very rare.
So initially it'll be an investigator calling you, getting all of the details.
Then we start beating the bushes for additional eyewitnesses.
I'm trying to explain to people that they don't have to be afraid to call, and this is one serious organization that will investigate without blowing your career out of the water or whatever.
So we really do want to encourage people to make the call and talk to us because in the five-year history that we've been around, we have never released the names of anybody without express permission from people.
It's really important that people call us because if they don't call us, we can't investigate it.
And I must emphasize that we do, in the appropriate cases, we do go to the wall in terms of investigation.
Obviously, if somebody calls in with a distant light in the sky that may or may not be Saturn or Venus, we're not going to spend an awful lot of time flying around looking for it.
But depending on the cases, we will investigate them.
Well, you know, it's really good because we announced this 24-hour hotline just over a year ago on your show, as you probably remember.
I sure do.
And in the interim, we have gone through this process of analyzing and investigating, tracking down, and all of that, of just under 600 cases.
Wow.
And that's not the numbers of calls we've received.
They're the cases that we've gone to the trouble of tracking down additional eyewitnesses, investigating.
And then we have a system where we enter it into a database, we assign a credibility index and all of that, and then we try to map the cases geographically to see if there's any patterns.
And so we've done that in 600 cases.
And what really has left out in the last 12 months is the black triangle issue, which a lot of people have talked about.
And we have kind of, we've got this really almost by default.
About 116 cases, separate cases that we've got in the last 12 months, are these black triangles.
And they all, or most of them have the same modus operandi.
They're flying very low.
Over 60% of the cases that we have, of the 116 cases, are flying below 1,000 feet.
And they're all very large.
They're all extremely brightly lit.
They all have the performance characteristics that they're silent.
They can turn on a dime.
In other words, they rotate.
They don't bank.
They can accelerate to very high speeds without making noise.
Which we don't know if that's a different make or whatever, but it's definitely there.
And about 10% of these triangular cases do have effects on cell phones or radios or autos.
And just lately we've had a couple of cases involving biological effects, which is what I wanted to focus on, because these are really the cases that start opening the doors to further analysis.
Well there are two separate cases that we're working on right now.
One of them happened in Maine at a remote area in Maine involving three people.
There was a mother, her mother, and then there was a young son.
And the son was affected after seeing this object going right overhead at about 200, 300 feet, very slowly, immediately preceded by two what looked like silent helicopters, unmarked black silent helicopters.
So in other words, they were standing in a clearing in a campground in Maine, and the first thing they see was coming over just over the trees were two silent helicopters, and then almost immediately after this was a low-flying black triangular object, no noise, just a kind of a very deep vibration that was felt rather than heard.
Five or six hours later, the little boy woke up with describing extreme heat in his gut.
He said his stomach was burning.
And then the mother noticed that the skin on the back of his neck was really peeling and it looked like burn marks.
And the boy woke up at about 5.30 or 5 o'clock the following morning.
It was very, very soon.
And we have the photographs of those burns.
So we're tracking that case because it may give an indication of the kind of radiation that was deployed.
Now, interestingly, there are some parallels with the famous Cash Landrum incident in Texas, where there was two women and a young boy were subjected to intense radiation, but all three people were affected.
In this case, in Maine, only the boy was affected.
That's the first case.
Now, the second case is definitely worth following up from my perspective because I'm a biologist and I have an interest in genetics.
This case happened in Saskatchewan, and again, it was a low-flying, actually more like a flying wing, but it had a triangular shape roughly, came overhead again, and this lady's plants were deeply affected.
She had several different types of flowers that underwent a dramatic change in the following two to three days.
She felt a lot of tingling, static electricity kind of effect as the object went right over her head.
Well, if human tissue was being cooked, you know, it would show up fairly quickly as, yeah, and there would be hot spots in the internal organs, for sure.
If we eliminate ultraviolet and we eliminate the ionizing radiation, we definitely need to look at radio waves and microwaves.
And, you know, you could even put out the hypothesis that if by any chance this was a military, some sort of a military object, that electronic countermeasures put out fairly substantial blasts of radio waves, you know, high-frequency radio waves, which border on the microwave region.
If you wanted to look at it from that point of view.
Well, if you imagine it might be our military, you certainly would have a hard time imagining why they would do it over a populated area A and B, even if they did, why would they light up like Christmas trees?
And it brings in a really significant air safety issue into this whole equation.
You know, people talk about air safety mostly from the perspective of the pilots, but from the perspective of people on the ground, if you've got low-flying, extremely large objects that are floating over your house on a regular basis, it does get dangerous.
We have had people talk to us, eyewitnesses, who have described that these objects coming so low that they start running, that it's coming right over the treetops.
Very, very strange.
you know I was just talking about the the biological effect on the on the flowers yes we had what Well, what happened was that this series of purple petunia flowers underwent a series of orchestrated changes in the flower color.
First of all, they changed from purple to white stripes, then they changed to all white, then they changed to lime green.
You're kidding.
Over a three-day period.
Now, we're not talking one flower, we're talking about all flowers.
Now, that means that there was a pretty heavy effect on the genetics of that plant.
There were specific genes transcribed over a particular time period that led to these orchestrated changes.
So what we're doing currently is we're talking with different genetics labs that focus on pecuniary research to see if we can get a handle on the kinds of energy that affected plants in such an orchestrated way.
So I'm using this as an example of the kinds of effects that people could call into us on our hotline because they will give us a window on the kinds of effects that are happening to people, animals, and plants as a result of these cases.
If you'd like to and you haven't yet, please make note of the NIDS number.
They have the resources, they have the infrastructure, and they'll keep your name confidential.
So if you have something you want to report, particularly with physical evidence, but not necessarily so, those lines are open right now and then normally during the day.
If you want to see the NIDS website, go to my website and just click under tonight's guest, Column Gulliher, and you'll see the link to the NIDS website.
I've got a question about the NIDS website and something about Area 51 in a moment.
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Area 51 in a moment.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 12, 2001.
Coast to Coast AM The close encounter that my wife and I had was here in Perron, Nevada.
The craft was headed directly toward Area 51.
A lot of people have said, well, Area 51 is not anymore.
I have in front of me something that I'm going to read to you.
It's got a lot of apparent legalese in it.
For immediate release from the President of the United States dated February 1st, 2001.
What I'm going to read is a text of a letter from the President to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President of the Senate.
Dear Mr. Speaker, dear Mr. President, consistent with Section 6001A of the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act, RCRA, the Act as amended 42 U.S.C. 69-61A, notification is hereby given that on September 19,
2000, President Clinton issued Presidential Determination 2000-30, copy attached, and thereby exercised his authority to grant certain exemptions under Section 6001A of the Act.
Presidential Determination 2000-30 exempted the United States Air Force's operating location near Groom Lake, Nevada, from any federal, state, interstate, or local hazardous or solid waste laws that would require the disclosure of classified information concerning that operating location to unauthorized persons.
Information concerning activities at the operating location near Groom Lake has been properly determined to be classified, and its disclosure would be harmful to national security.
Continued protection of this information is, therefore, in the paramount interest of the United States.
The determination was not intended to imply that in the absence of a presidential exemption, RCRA or any other provision of law permits or requires the disclosure of classified information to unauthorized persons.
The determination also was not intended to limit the applicability or enforcement of any requirement of law applicable to the Air Force's operating location near Groom Lake, except those provisions, if any, that would require the disclosure of classified information.
Well, yeah, we've gone down by the black or the white mailbox, and we've checked out the guys in the white Jeep Cherokees who stop you from going any further.
And even then, you're like 30 or 40 miles away from anything interesting.
You know, they've described these objects taking off at the speed of a jet fighter.
So these black helicopters on occasion have really high performance characteristics.
Now, the silent black helicopters that I talked about in Maine just came over.
It was almost like they drifted over the campsite.
You may recall the Cache Landrum sighting in Texas.
The event, there was about 15 to 20 again helicopters associated with this large craft in Texas.
Now there was a very, very intensive effort to track down those 15 to 20 helicopters that were flying in association with the UFO in Texas in 1980 without success.
In other words, those helicopters could not be found.
So there's a real discrepancy between the deployment of these helicopters and the numbers of people who are reporting them.
Now, that's not to say that there's blackoffs happening all the time, that silent black helicopters do fly, but there's a lot of discrepancy.
We're not able to explain it.
And we've heard a lot of talk recently, especially about the whole concept of UFO mimicry.
Well, we know that the UFO phenomenon does have an effect.
It's able to manipulate perception.
I think the 40 to 50 year history of the UFO phenomenon really points that out.
And I think Jacques Falet, for example, has done a lot of work pointing that whole aspect out.
His focus really has been showing that there's the physical effects, there are psychological effects, and there are even psychic effects, if you want to use the term psychic.
So you've got a tremendously sophisticated series of phenomena that are capable of interacting with the physical level, with the psychological level, and with the psychic level, which means that we're, as observers, we're pretty subjective, to put it mildly.
If we're having all three levels being manipulated, maybe even simultaneously, then you can make the strong point that we're not really seeing what we see.
That's very troubling.
Well, from the point of view of eyewitness testimony, it certainly does raise questions, and it also raises questions about credibility.
But just the number of bizarre incidents and very, very difficult to explain sightings of these convoys of helicopters around the UFO phenomenon are very, very difficult to explain.
Either you're being invited to see something that is familiar to you that you can at least semi-explain, a helicopter is something we know about, or there is some government involvement.
Which way do you lean or do you sort of wobble between?
There's definitely aberrancies in perception from what people report and see.
I mean, we even have people who go into the same incident and report different things, different features of craft, which seems to me to be fairly indicative, number one, of eyewitness unreliability, but also, number two, of this whole facet of interactions with psychology.
The short answer is we really don't have enough data to say.
John in Brooklyn, Ohio asked a question on we have a little facility here called FastBlast where they can send a question.
And he says, hi, Art.
In the UFO phenomenology section of the NIDS website, under the news items section, there are articles about UFO encounters that occurred in China, but for some reason they cannot be accessed.
But, you know, I wanted to mention the helicopter issue because we've just completed on our website, we just put up actually about 12 hours ago, a fairly major report on a series, a wave of UFO helicopter activity centered around Malstrom Air Force Base in 1974 to 1977.
And that really does raise the question of this helicopter Issue.
The data came out of a retired police officer who was based in Great Falls, Montana during the 1970s.
And the reason we were interested in this whole case was because he had the original police blotters and he made them available to us.
And they documented a really frenzied series of UFO sightings over a period of two years involving about 128, 129 separate UFO reports that came into his office from a 40-mile radius around Maelstrom Air Force Base.
And on top of that, there was an additional 60-odd sightings of helicopter activity.
Now, these are helicopters that Maalstrom Air Force Base and nearby National Guard bases were deliberately trying to track, and they could not track most of these helicopter sightings.
They managed to track a very small number, but the majority of these 63 sightings of helicopters, they did not know where they were coming from.
And finally, in this database from Montana, right in the middle of this whole UFO helicopter wave, there was 67 mutilations.
So you've got a wave of UFO helicopter activity, and you've also got a wave of animal mutilations that are interspersed.
And we got one of the better statisticians around to take a look at this data.
She's a statistician from University of California at Davis.
And she has documented, we think it's the first time it's been documented that there is a very strong statistical significant link between UFO helicopters and the animal mutilation phenomenon.
Now, obviously we've heard a lot in the past about people reporting weird lights in the sky around the same time as mutilations, but we think because of these high numbers involved, we're talking really, if you look at it, about 300 cases, if you add all of them together,
over a very short period of time, over a couple of years, we think this is the first time where an actual strong and scientifically backable statistical finding has been reported.
And we just put that up on our website about 12 hours ago.
Can you imagine in your wildest dreams why our governments, and they're the only ones you can imagine would do this, but you can't attach a motive to it, would go out and randomly yank up a cow or an elk or any other animal, do some mutilating work to it or even medical experimental work, and then drop it to the ground.
Is there any circumstance under which you could imagine the need for that?
We're at a complete loss to explain why the government does not, if it wants to experiment on animals, why it doesn't buy its own herd of animals, subject them to whatever stimulus they want to subject them to, and then Farmer X's animals, they could go to Farmer X and buy the animal if there's something special about Farmer X's animal.
Well, you know, the cases around the Maelstrom Air Force Base in 1975 were interesting because there was an unprecedented level of cooperation between the military base and the police, you know, the law enforcement, the sheriff's office.
So there was like floods of phone calls going back and forth.
And there were actually military, sometimes helicopters were reporting dead animals to the Cascade County Sheriff's Department.
So we find that level of collegiality and cooperation pretty interesting too, especially if you make the hypothesis that the military were involved in animal mutilations, because it doesn't seem to hold up in the case of Montana.
We have testimony from people who were inside Maelstrom Air Force Base that they had no idea of who or what was flying around the Air Force Base.
They had no idea of who was mutilating the animals.
And you have to remember, there's about 220 Minuteman III missiles located in that part of Montana.
Now we have a map in the report that we published on our website showing that a small number of these missile sites were actually overflown repetitively with either UFO or what people reported as helicopters.
And we tend to lump in the UFO and the helicopters into the same category.
Well, they actually overflew the missile launch facilities with no reaction.
Not one of them were...
You know, one would intuitively, you know, think that they would be intercepted.
We have reports...
Well, we would have thought that but we have reports of F-106s being launched to intercept but absolutely no contact was ever made with these UFOs.
We have reports coming out of mouths from Air Force Base on these police blotters that document the frustration of launching these fighters to intercept and coming up with nothing and then when the fighters leave the objects blink the lights back on and multiple phone calls on a given night talking about these objects over various missile launch silos.
For me, it's the National Institute for Discovery Science.
And they do a lot of very important work.
And we've got a phone number for you.
You should take it down, keep it.
And when the time comes, the right time, you should use it.
Because they have the resources.
They have the people.
They have the scientists to get out.
And they have the money to investigate it and do a good job.
It's all there for you.
All you've got to do is have guts to pick up the line.
unidentified
Ah, saxophone.
Saxophone.
come takes me to a whole different place I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM back underway in a moment Coast to Coast AM sure sounds great in the middle of the night.
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Looking for the truth?
You'll find it on CoastToCoast AM.
Let's talk a little bit about the shadow government.
Do you believe it's there?
Yeah, we've heard that term, you know, for so many years, and I thought it was this group in the Netherlands that sit behind smoked windows and make decisions like, you know, giant players of chess.
But it isn't.
We don't have the government anymore.
What we have is a loose coalition of bureaucracies, but we have no representation in that government.
So when I look at the Constitution, I see it as a really inspired and eternal document that has been sidestepped in almost every legal way possible.
So the process itself has been intentionally manipulated to facilitate a certain style of government.
And it's taken a while to set up, but I think it's set up now and it's working just the way they like it.
We need a systemic change in order to let the Republic be representative of the people again.
You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 12, 2001.
Music By the way, on my website right now, there's all kinds of new stuff and all kinds of reasons for you to go up there, including the link to NIDS.
And we'll give that number to you again, too.
The hotline number for NIDS, if you have anything going on that you'd like to report without having your name dragged around, they'll do it.
We all agree the speed of light is 186,000 miles per second.
Anyone out there know what the speed of dark is?
Somebody says, I submit to you that space travel will become commonplace once scientists realize the speed of dark is much more of an efficient way to travel than the minuscule speed of light.
I don't know about that.
Column, somebody writes and asks, recently it's been discussed in the media that these large triangular craft are actually blimps being used as mobile helicopter bases.
They supposedly have helicopters on board in the port and starboard corners.
Well, we've heard those possibilities, and actually we tried to do some research on whether or not one of these stealth blimps had been built and deployed.
And we came across a company out in New Jersey called Arion Inc.
And we talked to the CEO of Arion for quite some time.
And he said that there was small Arion blimps developed in the 1970s and actually test flown.
But unless somebody has actually broken the patent against his knowledge, these things were never deployed.
The large blimps were never deployed.
Now, we know, for example, that money has gone to Lockheed to develop these kinds of heavy lifting blimps.
We don't know yet if some black project has deployed these.
We really have no idea, but we know that the Arion people have not made them, and we know they're in the developmental stages at Lockheed and elsewhere.
And there's actually seed money from NASA looking at this too.
So unless it's buried, you know, we haven't been able to find it.
We do know, however, that the performance characteristics that are pretty well repetitively reported to us are not consistent with a Blint-type craft because we know extremely high speeds and accelerations are really not consistent with a Blint-type structure.
The other night, we were doing a show on life after death and survival after death of the spirit or the consciousness.
And we had a call that rocked me back, and I'm not over it yet.
It was from a young lady who works as an MRI technician.
And for years now, she called me and she admitted, she said, you know, I see entities, not everywhere, but when I'm at work, I see entities.
I wouldn't dare tell my coworkers what I see, but I see them.
And I see them when the MRI machine is operating.
And that blew me away, Colin, because I've got a bad back, terrible back, L4 and L5.
And I've had an MRI, and I think I explained to the audience, when I have that MRI, you know, curious me, I go to the technician, I say, why don't you tell me about this machine?
And so he opened up the front of the machine, he took a big steel bar, a big one, put it up against the machine, turned the machine on, and said, try to pull it off.
And I tried.
I tried as hard as I could.
And there was no way to pull it off.
The size of the electromagnetic field from an MRI machine is monstrous.
Absolutely monstrous.
And there are effects on humans.
And, you know, maybe others.
I remember you telling me a story about the ranch.
Right?
You remember that story about an opening of some sort with something crawling out of it?
Yeah, that happened a few years ago, maybe a couple of years ago now.
It was in August.
It was late summer, and there were two investigators actually involved in this incident.
They were monitoring this hotspot.
We like to call it a hotspot because it's a very small field, actually measuring maybe 100 yards by 50 yards, very small, that seems to have had a lot of phenomena over time.
So there's a ridge overlooking this field, so it's a really good vantage point for taking infrared photographs and for using night vision equipment to try to track the phenomena that seem to be centered around this field for whatever reason.
And the two investigators were up on the ridge overlooking this field.
And they were just packing up for the night, actually.
It was kind of like 2 a.m. and they saw a very, very dull yellowish light down below them.
Didn't take much notice of it at first as they were packing up.
And the light seemed to get more intense and it was still a dull yellowish, but it was expanding.
And eventually it expanded to about four feet in diameter.
So they unpacked the equipment and one guy took out night vision binoculars and the other guy took out infrared or camera with infrared film and started taking long exposure infrared photographs while the other guy was watching what was happening through the night vision binoculars.
So the guy with the binoculars started reporting that the four foot diameter area of light seemed to be three-dimensional and he could see movement in the bottom of this three-dimensional hole or actually it was like a three-dimensional tunnel of light located about four feet above the ground.
So it was kind of like as if it was hovering in the ground and in this three-dimensional tunnel there was a movement and gradually a pair of shoulders, a head and arms were getting pretty obvious and he was getting pretty excited reporting it to this other guy who was taking photographs.
And this creature became obvious as it seemed to be literally pushing itself along this three-dimensional tunnel of light that was located about four feet above the ground.
So the creature eventually maneuvered itself out of the tunnel, stood up, and then just vanished into the night.
And they plucked up the courage after about 10 minutes to go down to the exact spot because in the meantime, after the creature had vanished into the night, this was about a six-foot creature, looked like totally black, had crawled out of this three-dimensional structure in the air, and then immediately afterwards it started collapsing in on itself.
So ten minutes later it was completely gone.
The light was gone.
Now, the guy who was taking the photographs could only see a dull yellow four-foot diameter light, whereas the guy with the infrared night vision binoculars could see all of the action happening.
So they went down, they used these portable detectors to look for electric fields, magnetic fields, microwave radiation, radio waves, and the electromagnetic, the usual cast of characters.
Nothing was registering except there was a very pungent odor of sulfur in the air.
Well, you know, again, going back to what this MRI tech told me, I don't know why it blew me away so, except that I guess I remember back to the Philadelphia experiment descriptions of electromagnetics being used.
And electromagnetics are just sort of interesting because we don't fully understand what extremely strong electromagnetic fields do to the human body, to the brain, or what they might even do in terms of absolutely.
And, you know, in the area up in the Uinta Basin around the ranch, it's not only the ranch that has activity, but it's the entire area.
We have documented seven or eight different times of transient fluctuations on a handheld magnetic field detector.
So there are transient back and forth fluctuations, strong fluctuations in magnetic field associated with these phenomena, but for whatever reason.
And what we would love to be able to do is to start deploying much more sophisticated equipment.
And we know that, for example, that the government has multiple, multiple detectors arrayed all around the country that we're fairly sure must be picking up some either infrared, ultraviolet, visible light, or any of the magnetic field, electric field, or electromagnetic detectors.
There's a lot of data we're pretty sure that's available.
But we know in the area of the human debate, then magnetic fields have been detected.
And one of the things we were thinking of doing in the future is perhaps using that as a way of, kind of like your caller with the MRI, using a magnetic field detector or a generator so that perhaps one could construct with pretty good engineering,
one could construct a fairly sizable magnetic field generator.
Obviously, there would be safety concerns within the immediate area, but if it was fenced off, it could produce some kind of a disturbance that would be detectable.
Well, yeah, we do have a case from last June, actually, late June, that was reported from Utah.
And the reason that I'd like to talk about it a bit is because there was only a single eyewitness, and it seems difficult for us to believe that there was only a single eyewitness, because this object was like huge.
The eyewitness described it as being the size of a small airport.
We're used to getting comparisons with airplanes, but this is the first one where we got a comparison with an airport.
And very briefly, what happened was he noticed what seemed like the beginnings of a light show happening in the sky and then he noticed that there seemed to be what he described as blobs of light that started coalescing together into this gigantic circular structure.
It was like blobs of liquid mercury, you know, when you put them on a desk or something.
They roll together.
That's exactly how he described this phenomenon that was coming together in the air.
You know, hundreds of little objects coming together to form this large circular object.
And in the middle of this, there was what he described as a jasmine light that was flicking on and off and on and off.
It was repetitively going on and off.
And each time it went on and off, he heard this distinct buzzing sound about a second or two seconds afterwards.
To the extent that after a couple of rounds of this, he noticed that it was the Jasmine lights seemed to be making the sound.
So speed of sound traveling at 700 to 750 miles per hour, the interval being between one and two seconds, we were able to compute that this thing was not very far away from him.
It was like maybe a couple of thousand feet.
So an object the size of a small airport that was extremely brightly lit remained in the sky in Utah, in the area between Randlet and Roosevelt, Utah, for about 15 minutes.
And we would be very interested if any of your listeners, number one, have ever seen anything of that ilk.
And number two, if they were in the area in June of 2000.
It's a long shot, but we figured it'd be worth following up on because the way this object came together was different from a lot of the reports that we have got in the past.
Usually what we get is objects either vanishing or objects appearing suddenly, but this seemed to be like a sequence of events that resulted in this object appearing.
Yeah, and I think that's what we're kind of afraid of because we have definitely put the word out to see if we can get other eyewitnesses because it would be really good if we were able to triangulate different eyewitness descriptions of that object.
Well, maybe somebody out there who's seen something as big as an airport up in Utah would be willing to call your number.
If you'd like to report a floating airport, or for that matter, anything else, they have the resources it needs to investigate.
All you've got to do is make the call.
unidentified
The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
More somewhere in time coming up.
All rolling and ratting and dripping and chatting.
It's magic.
And you and the woolly and higher favorite.
It's a favorite thing.
It's a better...
Nothing but a heart is never ending It's not a heart and it's in the heart All the way to you, I'm here.
It doesn't matter how it ain't ever a day It's gonna hurt a tear down all the way It's gonna point out the wisdom that I just can't win Please like
me, oh why can't I get here I got a lot of fun I got a lot of fun Tears are all the way Nothing but a heartache Nothing but
a heartache Nothing but a heartache Tears are all the way Nothing but a heartache I'm just too slam Yeah, he's got me, oh why can't I get here I got a lot I don't know party.
Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues courtesy of Premier Networks.
By the way, I did a good spongali little picture for you on the website, and I left that up there.
I've got quick facts I want to read you.
We'll get back to Columbia in a moment.
It says, hi, Art.
After listening to your show tonight, I just can't hold back what I was told in October of 1995.
This was told to me by an aeronautical engineer that worked for McDonnell Douglas in Mesa, Arizona.
I'd asked if they believed in UFOs, and they said, well, they didn't know, but they didn't doubt that UFOs existed.
They did tell me there may be things people might think are UFOs, but are not.
I asked what they were.
They stated they were black helicopters.
I had at that time never heard of such thing.
They told me it was a black project and that meant information only came in, no information goes out.
This terminology is what is derived from what we know as a black hole in space.
He told me he couldn't tell me much about black helicopters other than they were black in color, a strange shape, fly fast, able to fly with no sound, and could change shape in mid-flight.
Change shape in mid-flight.
He also told me that they were used by the United Nations forces, made of a multinational force, and the ones based in Arizona were out of a secret UN base in northeastern Arizona.
Most of the time, these black helicopters only flew at night.
These black helicopters were being used to follow illegal drug traffic in Mexico and flew there on a regular basis.
I've kept quiet about this for a long time now, and I will not give my name for obvious reasons.
I'd appreciate keeping myself anonymous.
I'm only giving this to you to give some direction to look for future information and questioning.
Sincerely, signed, Anonymous.
So, I don't know.
unidentified
For what it's worth though, there it is.
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And Colum, here's a really kind of an interesting comment from Danny in Jacksonville, Arkansas, because of what we were talking about.
Early Ray Palmer publications, I don't know him, like Fate, Search Forum, and Mystic, described arc welders, you know arc welders as seeing apparitions.
Somebody asked me that question quite a while ago, and we have never had a single report of human mutilations, even though I know there was a couple on the internet there in the last few months.
We have never had a single report of human mutilations.
You know, the cattle mutilation phenomenon continues.
You know, there's a lot of evidence to say that that is continuing.
But humans know.
I would love to know the data and the sources for that data, but we just have had no reports.
Well, one of the really classic symptoms of animal mutilation is removal of one or both of the eyes.
And it's well known that the vitreous humor in the eye, the fluid in the eye of an animal is a very, very good indicator, accurate indicator of all of the metabolism and all of the additives that have been processed by that animal.
So plus the effects on the reproductive organs as the so-called germ cells, the stem cells, all of those are tremendously susceptible to contaminants.
But this goes back to the question in mutilations of is this the government just monitoring, as many, many people have reported to us, that this seems to be the favorite theme that even goes back to the 1970s,
that the government are monitoring some unknown pathogen, be it radioactivity, downwind from the Nevada test sites, or some biohazards that are being produced up in Utah in the Dugway area.
Yeah, well, it's put forward as a way of monitoring over a very, very wide area how wind would disperse a given pathogen.
But, you know, it's all speculation.
But we have had these kinds of reports again and again and again, especially east of Dugway, you know, that area up in Utah west of Salt Lake City, where even law enforcement people talking about this continuous activity that was happening up in the area around Logan, for example, in the 1970s.
Continuous black helicopter activity coming in from the west, coming in from the area around Dugway, and sampling of animals.
But again, it's all still up in the air.
We have never been able to nail it down for government operation.
Same thing like I was talking about with the Maelstrom Air Force Base incidents.
All of these incidents happened within a 40-mile radius.
67 separate mutilations happened within a 40-mile radius of Maelstrom Air Force Base.
We interviewed veterinarians who actually worked these cases pro bono for the law enforcement agencies up there, provided that their names weren't used and provided that they did not have to sign off on a report.
They did this work pro bono.
They went out into the field and did the pathology, and they found these animals in several cases were exanguinated.
In other words, they did the full necropsy.
They looked in the abdominal cavity.
They looked in the thoracic cavity.
They looked everywhere for where blood should settle and there was no blood.
They even went as far, one veterinarian told me on the telephone that he even went as far as squeezing the animal's heart and only one drop of blood came out of the heart.
He said these animals, you know, he had looked at a couple of them and another veterinarian had looked at a couple of them.
And these were all within a 40-mile radius of Maelstrom Air Force Base.
Now, in one of these cases, they roll the animal over in order to conduct the full necropsy on the animal.
And underneath the animal, there was a very large gauge metal needle.
The kind of instrument that humans would use to attempt to exanguinate an animal.
So there's a tremendous level of confusion in the animal mutilation field.
Yeah, we have this very strong statistical correlation now between the UFO helicopter activity and the mutilation phenomenon.
But we also have this ongoing organized deception that has been happening, and we know it's been happening since the 1940s, where various groups are known historically to use the UFO phenomenon for deceptive purposes, including the intelligence agencies, perhaps as a way of monitoring Air Force base readiness, for example.
If we're talking about national security, what is national security?
Well, if unidentified aircraft are violating our airspace, violating our cattle, violating our citizens, that would, and you know, frequently, for example, overflying missile silos.
If all of that doesn't qualify as a real big national security issue, then I don't properly understand national security.
And we really saw that on a really minute scale up at Maelstrom Air Force Base.
You know, the missile silos are coded according to these Greek letters, alpha, beta, gamma, bravo.
And, you know, on the logs from the police records that we looked at, you saw these reports, object over India 10, object over Bravo 4.
And these objects were hovering sometimes for several minutes.
They were obviously associated with the missile launch facilities.
And if that doesn't constitute a very serious national security problem, we don't know what does.
Now, we have the documentation for Malstrom Air Force Base in October and November of 1975, and we know that there was simultaneous activity, incursions happening at Minot Air Force Base in Northern Atling Air Force Base in Maine, Wordsmith Air Force Base in Michigan, and then even one of the Canadian Air Force Bases, Falcon Bridge in Ontario.
We know over those two-month periods that there was multiple, multiple incursions right across the northern tier.
Now, we can't really put all of that down to activity by the intelligence agencies.
I think 2020 did a piece on some craft that hovered above some missile facilities, I think in the Dakotas, if I remember correctly, and actually shut down a number of our ICBMs.
Then there was a similar report in Russia, a little more worrisome, because in this case, the objects hovering for a long period of time above the silos initiated a countdown.
Actually, began a countdown to launch.
And they ripped those consoles apart and never found anything wrong.
So again, you know, it seems to me that would probably qualify as national security.
We know that I think the one that you're referring to that I know about in the United States was the Malcolm Air Force Base missile shutdowns in 1967, where I believe it was March 1967, where up to 10 separate missile locations were shut down.
In other words, the alarms were going off.
They were inoperative.
There were two security guards called in to the launch control facility, which was located underground.
They called in in the panic saying that there was a large orange object out there.
They didn't know what was going on.
One security officer injured himself as he was clambering over a metal fence getting away from this object.
For example, going back to the ranch with the hole opening up four feet above the ground and something beginning to crawl out of it, I've got to give your observer a lot of credit because, you know, when it started crawling out, I'm not sure I could wait around and observe dispassionately.
That was one of those things that we talked about along for quite a while afterwards because, you know, they had no idea at the time what actually happened when this creature literally vanished into the night.
It was like a black night.
And one minute it was there, it was sort of illuminated by the three-dimensional tunnel.
And the next minute it was gone into the night.
They had no idea if it was climbing up the ridge after them.
But the interesting thing about that particular incident was that these dull yellow lights were very, very common.
Very common.
So around the area, not only around that particular ranch, but around the area in general, they were reported.
But they were never really looked at as anything more than just kind of phenomena.
But this was the first time that somebody had looked at them in the infrared region of the spectrum because the Generation 3 night vision binoculars looks fairly far into the infrared spectrum.
It looks into at least 3,000 nanometers.
So what was going on was obviously detectable in the infrared and not the visible region of the spectrum.
There are other incidents too that have happened in that area in Utah where observers who have just been without equipment have not seen what observers with equipment have seen.
And I'm talking about the night vision equipment.
It's very useful for picking up phenomena that the visible part of the spectrum is not accessible.
Well, we see him as being an extremely valuable advisor.
I mean, he's written so many books, but he is probably still one of the preeminent people in terms of field experience in the UFO phenomenon, because not only did he go through all of the 1960s, 1970s, the Project Blue Book phase of the UFO phenomenon, but he's continued all through the 80s.
He's traveled all over the world.
He's done field research in Brazil.
He's done field research in the Soviet, what used to be the Soviet Union, United States, and Europe.
So you would be really hard pressed to find somebody who is more experienced in field research and also intellectually capable.
you lived like a heap wave White lightning around the garden You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time tonight featuring Coast to Coast a.m. from February 12th 2001 we've got one more segment to do Column Kilahera then we're going to do an hour of predictions and that will close out predictions for the year done a little late but better late than never so that'll be one hour following this segment coming up immediately
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It's way out there.
These groups of extraterrestrials that are unfriendly, many of which are hiding down there at the bottom of the ocean, why don't they want us to know about this?
We've lost people in wars with UFOs.
You know, we spend a lot of time honoring our heroes, and we have heroes that we don't know about.
It's disturbing to that extent because we haven't met the people who've defended us, and we'll never know who they are.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 12, 2001.
You know, if somebody calls NASA out of the blue looking for some aspect of UFO information, NASA, through the science advisory board that we have, who are connected, many of them are connected with NASA, contact NIST.
So we do get referrals, but we don't get any beyond that.
And of course, our physicist, Eric Davis, has been associated with the NASA Breakthrough Propulsion Initiative for quite a while, as is Hal Putoff, who is the chairman of our science advisory board.
He's on the NASA breakthrough propulsion workshops.
So there is a very high interest in the relationship between the physics of UFOs, The engineering that is going into UFOs and the breakthrough propulsion, obviously it's not talked about in those terms at the NASA meetings, but it's definitely a high level of interest there.
And if it's through infrared, if there was a simultaneous visible video available, it would be excellent, especially if there was a difference.
But even the infrared video, I think we would really like to see.
It does harken back to the same topic that I was talking about earlier.
In other words, that beyond the narrow range of the visible spectrum, we speculate now, after several different events, that there is activity happening that we don't see.
I think that's a pretty sensible notion that the idea that there's a technology out there that is just transmitting radio waves is the kind of thinking that was okay in the 50s, in the 1950s.
But I think the optical SETI is a big leap forward.
And, you know, speaking of the NASA connection, you know, the space lab that's up there right now, a lot of these experiments are focused on the commercial applications of microgravity manufacturing, which is obviously a very big interest for Robert Bigelow because he, in the last 18 months, has launched Bigelow Aerospace.
Yeah, and one of the main views of Bigelow Aerospace is to look at the commercial possibilities of space stations in orbit that are manufacturing pharmaceuticals, manufacturing a whole range of items under zero-G conditions.
And the platforms for commercial exploitation would be phase one, and then phase two with exactly what you just said, is the cruisers that would go from the near-Earth orbit to the moon and back on a five-day trip.
Because one of the things that Robert Bigelow has been floating as a think piece for the future for 2001 is to examine the possibility that one of the reasons for extremely high performance of UFOs is that the UFOs themselves are manufactured at zero G. In other words,
we as a race on planet Earth are now reaching the ability to manufacture off-world.
There's a lot of data, or some data at least, to suggest that at least some of the properties of items that are manufactured in Zero-G are very different from those manufactured terrestrially.
Do you remember, I think it was pretty much toward the end of the movie when Jodi Foster thought she'd had it and she wasn't going to be able to take the machine ride.
And the gazillionaire from the space station, Amir, I think, issued that famous line at the end, want to take a ride.
It's a fairly big analysis was recently done on one of the bigger databases of the UFOs, which now has about 130,000 cases.
And a pattern emerged that UFO activity and particularly close encounters of the fourth kind, which is abductions, are closely correlated with what's called local sidereal time at 1,300 hours.
And that is the relationship of Earth as it rotates with the stars rather than relationship of Earth as it rotates with the Sun, which is the standard day.
So in other words, there's a correlation between a specific slice of the sky being exposed and a higher incidence of abduction or close encounters.
Now that is very, very interesting from a number of points of view, but primarily because in 1997, a guy called James Spottiswood found exactly the same kind of correlation for remote viewing, for anomalous cognition, you know, the kind of high-level human performance, exactly the same local sidereal time.
So you could make the put out the hypothesis that for a specific slice of sky, for a given observer on planet Earth being exposed, something is modulating the ability either to remote view or to have anomalous cognition or to experience close encounter of the four kind or even certain types of UFO phenomenon.
So that's the possibility of either a signal or the absence of a signal or something that's modulating coming from a specific direction.
Yeah, and the idea that, for example, you just spoke about SETI, you know, you could speculate a lot on this whole topic, but the idea that SETI might think of lining up some minor detectors along this kind of meridian,
this slice of sky, or even other types of detectors, it's really intriguing to us for the future that this pattern is left out and that the exact same pattern has already been shown for anomalous cognition and remote viewing.
In other words, it's more than coincidence.
So we think we'd like to have a look at what that means.
That's one of the future topics.
And another one of interest is we want to look at the possibility sometime in the coming year of approaching a modified version of congressional hearings.
In other words, if you go to a senator or a congressman and you say, look, we'd like an investigation of UFOs, you know, call me next Thursday is the kind of thing you'll get, or next year or next.
But if you talk about national security, there's something they can glom onto.
Yeah, the two topics are really something that you could hang your hat on, exactly what you've just said.
It's something tangible.
And, you know, over the last few years, we have had interest expressed from both congresspeople and senators, but none of the people involved are willing to take the politically suicidal step of jumping up and saying we need to hold hearings on government secrecy.
But looking at it from the perspective of air safety, which is an international concern, not only a concern to the FAA, but a concern internationally, we could even look to the future of joining up with other countries.
For example, in South America, there are issues of air safety also.
And there are other indications that even in Chile, for example, that there were some reports a decade or so ago of the same kind of thing.
The national security issue we touched on a bit with this Maelstrom Air Force Base incident, but there are multiple others.
And I should also mention that all of these Air Force bases that had incursions, they were independently verified using many, many groups used FOIA to extract all of the documents that verified that incursions had happened, that the chain of command was quite worried about what was happening in 1975.
In other words, questions were going up the chain of command.
So it wasn't only Malstrom Air Force Base, it was right across the northern tier.
But it is not as though they have not looked at this before.
You remember the conclusion of Project Blue Book essentially said, whatever these things are, we have concluded they are not a threat to national security.
Well, you know, it's an interesting story that the Project Blue Book, we just got hold of the unpublished manuscript from Lieutenant Colonel Hector Quintinilla, who was, as you know, was head of Project Blue Book between 1963 and 1969.
And 1969 is when it terminated.
So he was there for the final six years of Project Blue Book.
Now what this manuscript essentially says is that Project Blue Book wasn't entirely a debunking exercise.
So in his own words, he's actually, well, he doesn't say Project Blue Book was a debunking exercise.
What he writes is, I'm a debunker and all of the, this is how I dealt with all of the cases that were coming into me.
It's a tremendously entertaining manuscript.
And actually, it's published as an e-book on our website.
But in Lieutenant Colonel's Quintinia's own words, he essentially really undermines the idea of objectivity with the Air Force Project Blue book.
It was written, this manuscript was written in 1975.
It's never been published.
And Ned's obtained a copy through the family who were interested in airing it.