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Feb. 12, 2001 - Art Bell

02:54:43

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - NIDS - Colm Kelleher

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	Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 12th, 2001.
	From the high desert and the great American southwest, I bid you all good evening and or good morning wherever you may be across this great land of ours.
	From the island of Guam in the west across the day line, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands, south into South America, north all the way to Poland worldwide on the internet.
	It's Coast to Coast AM, and I'm Art Bell.
	Good morning.
	Boy, are we gonna have a busy night tonight.
	Lots and lots to do.
	Let me first catch you up on a few new things on the website.
	Actually, there's a lot of new stuff on the website tonight.
	I have had so much communication about Maggie.
	Maggie, we call her the liner girl.
	Well, Maggie has cut a new liner for me.
	And just wait till you hear this one.
	What a job.
	And you'll notice in here, she says, as I pointed out before, from the desert of the sea.
	And it has been pointed out to me that before this was a desert, this place where I live near Area 51, it was a sea.
	In other words, it was a sea.
	I mean, you could find seashells, and the rocks, and that sort of thing.
	So you know there was a sea here at some point in the past.
	So the more I thought about it, and other people thought about it, the more they thought, now, how and why did she say that?
	And so she made, anyway, she made a new liner, and I think you'll enjoy this one.
	Listen to this.
	Hello, everybody.
	From the desert of the sea, this is Maggie.
	Do you want to take a ride?
	Ah ha ha, you want to take a ride.
	So anyway, little Maggie has new photographs on the website that her dad passed on.
	and uh... right at the top of the what's new you'll see this is maggie and boy
	that is maggie what a cutie what a magpie she is
	and her dad's email address is up there now too if you'd like to jot off a note to him
	but that's maggie's newest contribution and it's one i really really like
	hello everybody from the desert of the sea
	this is maggie Do you want to take a ride?
	That's Maggie.
	So we'll use that, but in the meantime, that audio is on the website, and three new photographs of Maggie are up there, too.
	That's the first item in the What's New.
	Also, what's new is you may recall we had Peter Davenport on, and somehow the fifth hour of Peter Davenport didn't get saved.
	Well, we've got it up there for you now.
	The Missing Davenport Hour.
	Those of you who didn't get to hear it, it's up on the website now in some form that you can listen to after the show.
	Never listen to these kinds of things, you know.
	While the actual live show is on.
	So, we've got that.
	There's something coming up on this creature called the Skunk Ape Creature.
	You're not going to believe what's coming up in a minute here.
	But first, let me welcome some new affiliates to the network.
	There is K.R.R.M.F.M., Rogue River, Grants Pass, Oregon, 94.7 on the dial.
	And I'd like to say hi to Herb and Shirley Bell.
	Great names, Herb and Shirley!
	That's K.R.R.M.F.M., playing traditional country music all day and coast to coast AM all night long.
	That's occurring more and more, by the way.
	Stations playing this or that in the way of music during the day have decided that, well, there is more in the world than music.
	And you know I love music, but in the all-night slot, there's some pretty interesting talk to be had.
	So more and more radio stations are doing that.
	And I'd like to welcome KXXL in Brownwood, Texas, 1240 on the dial.
	WNWQ.
	That's a good set of call letters.
	WNWQ.
	It kind of rolls off easily.
	In Palm Springs, California.
	1140 on the dial.
	Big 10 kilowatts there, too.
	Palm Springs.
	How about KGOE up in Eureka, California?
	Not too far from the Bobster seed grain company.
	KGOE.
	1480 on the dial in Eureka.
	Also, WDXN in Clarksville, Tennessee.
	Clarksville, Tennessee.
	540 on the dial there.
	Welcome to all of you as we continue to add affiliates at a lightning rate.
	I mean, it's just incredible what's going on.
	I've got to touch on just a little bit of the news before we get to our expert for the night.
	By the way, we're going to be doing, I promised you we would do one more hour of predictions.
	And we will, but it's going to be the final hour of the program tonight, as opposed to the first, because of the importance of what we're about to do.
	Well, with its rockets firing, ladies and gentlemen, an American spacecraft has floated toward Eros, hit once, bounced high, and then settled, that's not a settling sound, onto the barren rocky surface as mankind's first robot visitor to an asteroid.
	A strong radio signal, interrupted only briefly during the bounce, proved that the craft that was never designed to land had, in fact, come to a featherweight touchdown on Eros, more than 196 million miles from Earth, astounding even the officials overseeing the mission.
	And it's still working!
	It was, of course, the first time an American craft had made An initial unmanned landing on an outer space body.
	Unmanned Soviet craft arrived first on the moon, Venus, and Mars, but were first to land on an asteroid.
	And we'll have to see what that yields.
	Other news, uh, breaking, uh, the court has said Napster must stop.
	A federal appeals court signed, uh, signaled the end of, uh, Napster's free internet song, Swapping Service Monday.
	Saying the music industry will almost surely win its lawsuit against the digital entertainment provider.
	Under the ruling from the 9th U.S.
	Circuit Court of Appeals, the company must somehow stop the millions of people who use it as a clearinghouse to swap copyrighted music without charge and without restriction.
	And, you know, I have mixed feelings about it.
	I know a lot of you think it's a raw deal.
	But really, the raw deal is the artist, you know, who has his music taken without payment.
	And the other people who get hurt are the internet providers, because of the way Napster works.
	It kind of turns everybody into a server, and boy, that does some strange things to internet providers, so I imagine they're probably rejoicing this morning, as a lot of you are probably not.
	So I understand both sides of that coin.
	All right.
	You know, we posted some pictures, apparently a little early, of a skunk ape.
	So-called skunk ape.
	A creature.
	Some kind of creature.
	And... I just kind of put them up there.
	You know, you heard the fellow who brought them on the show the other day.
	At least, I hope you did.
	And he received the photograph from a friend who got it from a lady who supposedly took it in Florida, not exactly knowing what she was taking a photograph of, took a second photograph, took a good look at what she had just taken a picture of, and split.
	And who can blame her?
	Well, this story is ratcheting up a little bit.
	It looks like the experts are saying, well, maybe Maybe there is something here.
	Matter of fact, I've got a cryptozoologist, Lauren Coleman, one of the world's best, coming up in a moment, who's going to comment on these photographs.
	So if you haven't seen them yet, go to my website, click on what's new, and you'll see skunk ape photos.
	By all means, take a look, particularly based on what you're about to hear.
	Skunk ape photos.
	I don't know if that's the right word.
	Or if it should be Bigfoot, or if Bigfoot is a skunk ape, or a skunk ape is a Bigfoot.
	That's what we're going to ask Loren Coleman, coming up here in a moment.
	So stay right where you are.
	But you know, you don't have to be nocturnal to enjoy this amazing show.
	The Coast Insider is your key to a normal life.
	For 15 cents a day, you can wake up refreshed knowing that last night's show is waiting for you with podcasting.
	As a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Noory and special guests.
	The Coast Insiders Club is a must-have feature for all Coast to Coast AM listeners.
	Visit coasttocoastam.com to sign up today.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring coast to coast a m from february twelfth two thousand one
	all right uh... so what about this country is what ever in the world it is
	uh...
	Bye.
	There's... We were on it a little bit earlier, I guess, maybe earlier than we should have been.
	It seems the Tampa, Florida... In Tampa, Florida, the Tampa Tribune has published an article in today's paper called, Absolute Kinda Irrefutable Proof of Skunk Ape.
	Big story.
	And we've got a link to that on the website, too, if you want to see it.
	Loren Coleman, thank goodness we have him, he's one of the world's leading cryptozoologists.
	An honorary member of the British Columbia Scientific Cryptozoology Club and several other international organizations.
	He is also a life member of the International Society of Cryptozoology.
	He's written books and more than 200 articles on the subject.
	Has appeared frequently on radio and television programs.
	Has lectured from Idaho to Loch Ness.
	Has been both on and off camera consultant to NBC's Unsolved Mysteries, A&E's Ancient Mysteries, In Search of History, Discovery Channels, In the Unknown.
	And other reality-based programs.
	Norman, born 12 July 1947 in Norfolk, Virginia, has been investigating, in the field and in the library, cryptozoological evidence and folklore since the abominable snowman caught his interest back in 1960.
	He is one of the world's experts, and here he is.
	Lauren, welcome to the program.
	Good morning, Art.
	When world-leading experts are getting to be younger than I am, I know I'm in trouble.
	Great to have you.
	I'm not that much younger than you.
	No, a couple years.
	Lauren, you know, a fellow phoned me up and said, I've got these pictures.
	They're really hot.
	This was last week.
	Right.
	You ought to get them up on the website and let people take a look.
	And I said, well, OK, let's do it.
	And I did.
	And he gave me a brief little story to go with it.
	It turns out you were already on to this story, quietly I guess, behind the scenes.
	And I probably blew it all out of the water here.
	Well, David Barkasee and myself, David's in Florida.
	He came across these photographs through the Sheriff's Department down in Sarasota County.
	The Sheriff's Department, really?
	Yes.
	This woman had visitations from this thing that her husband actually called an orangutan.
	She had come on our porch a couple of times, ate some apples.
	The third night that I came back she went out in the backyard, went near what she calls
	her hedgerow, just pointed her camera in that direction and took these two quick shots.
	On December 22nd she sent a letter to the sheriff's department.
	They were kind of joking around with it and David who is involved in animal welfare has
	a snake shop down there, heard about this through the animal control folks and was able
	to get the photographs and send them to me.
	I had put them on my website.
	A couple days before you, and I think that's where Mr. Akin probably... As a matter of fact, we've got a link up because you've got enhanced versions of these photographs, right?
	We've been doing different enhanced versions with some computer extras.
	All right, so everybody wants to see the enhanced versions.
	Go now up to my website.
	Just go to the program material for tonight.
	You'll see Lauren Coleman's name, and the website will be there.
	Go over and take a look at the enhanced versions of these.
	They're incredible photographs, Lauren.
	Yes, they are.
	I mean, what's really remarkable, and like I was telling you earlier today when we talked about this, is when I wrote the book Mysterious American, talked about how the really history of the skunk ape has changed in the last 20 years.
	Wait, slow down already.
	Okay.
	What the hell is a skunk ape?
	A skunk ape, for about 60 years in the Florida, Southern United States, there's been What are really chimpanzee, orangutan like creatures that have been reported?
	They're smaller than the Pacific Northwest Bigfoot.
	The Pacific Northwest Bigfoot is from six feet to nine feet tall.
	These creatures are really in the range of six and a half feet down to three feet.
	They go on all fours.
	They sometimes project themselves upward, but they leave a footprint and they look very much like anthropoids, like chimps, like greater apes.
	As opposed to the traditional Bigfoot, which is really very man-like, very humanoid.
	They leave a footprint that's with all five toes out, out straight forward, the Bigfoot does.
	These skunk apes really leave footprints in which it looks much more like the human hand.
	They have a toe that's out to the side, very ape-like.
	So, but what unfortunately has happened with the kind of the globalization of Bigfoot Everybody in Malaysia uses the word Bigfoot to talk about the Yeti, or the Yowie, or the Skunk Ape.
	So since the Patterson film, which was filmed in 1967 in California, or Harry and the Henderson, everybody has this image in their head of this gigantic hair-covered creature.
	That's right.
	But what's fascinating about these pictures is they confirm exactly what myself and a Some other researchers have been saying we should expect to find in Florida something that looks much more anthropoid.
	You know, people are saying that this looks like an orangutan.
	The only problem, of course, is the orangutans are much redder.
	And this creature, as you can see on their website, is really kind of brown, much darker, almost black.
	and the head is shaped like an orangutan but the muzzle and the white beard is much more
	like a chimpanzee.
	So it's not really fitting with any known anthropoid or punga that we know about.
	But it's quite close to what we...
	If these pictures are authentic, and I think we always have to, as scientists, as cryptozoologists,
	have to hold out.
	You know, somebody could be pulling our leg, but what's...
	Well, okay, there's...
	Two categories of fakes that I always run into, and I'm sure you do too.
	One are what I call the pixel people, who put together photographs, fake photographs, with various software.
	The other is the man in the suit theory.
	Now, take both of them on.
	Do you give any credence to the first that this was done, you know, on somebody's computer?
	Well, the problem with the computer one is that everybody jumped on the early color Xeroxes of this and said this looked like a cardboard cutout.
	We know now that that's not true.
	The enhancements are showing shadows, they're showing a tongue, they're showing nostrils and canines that are yellow, fingernails.
	There's details there that you don't have in a cardboard cutout.
	So everything's more or less where it's supposed to be?
	Right, right.
	Okay, all right.
	The other one, as far as a man in a suit, Obviously that could happen.
	Some people pointed out they think the fur looks funny, but I have dug up some historical records on orangutans and chimpanzees that show that hair that can look matted like this.
	So we're still looking.
	I think the other part of it being a hoax, of course, is this woman is unidentified.
	She doesn't want to come forward yet.
	Yeah, but I don't blame her.
	Yeah, I understand that too.
	Ridicule.
	Yeah, of course.
	So, you lean more toward it being a valid photograph than you do a guy in a suit?
	Yes, I do.
	Because the main thing that has really captured me is how innocently this has come about.
	You know, David Barksie is not really one to... In other words, somebody would have Got a photograph and called me right up where they would have called up some other researcher around the country and say, hey, look at this.
	This is really cool.
	Something like that.
	But this, this was going to be thrown away in the garbage.
	The lady actually went to the sheriff's department first, right?
	She sent an anonymous letter to the sheriff's department.
	They have it on record.
	They only have it on record now because we brought it to their attention.
	They were just keeping it in a kind of a file that they were ready to throw away.
	And then, how did it get, again, from the Sheriff's Department to your attention?
	Okay, it came into the Sheriff's Department and they were passing it around the office.
	Sure.
	It was the joke of the day.
	Of course.
	And David Barkasy is an animal welfare person in Sarasota Springs.
	He had a friend who was an animal control officer David happened to be by the Sarasota Sheriff's Department one day in December and they were saying, Hey, look at this photograph.
	This is funny.
	This came in.
	He looked at it and he knew enough about my books and my work.
	Apparently he had read Mysterious America and the Field Guide to Bigfoot and said, Hey, there's maybe something to this photograph.
	Maybe I should talk to Lorne Coleman about this.
	And we tried to keep the investigation pretty quiet because we were trying to track down the woman.
	Yep.
	Sorry about that.
	As I said, a fella came on the air and said he had been sent this from a friend who got it from a source, from a lady in Florida.
	So that much of it sort of tracked.
	I don't know whether his story will hold up or not.
	But he did give us his name, his real name and so forth.
	So it is possible, I suppose, it leaked out.
	When you first saw this, what was your first reaction?
	David had another researcher and I went around David's back and went to the Sheriff's Department
	and the Sheriff's Department gave him color Xerox.
	It came out that way.
	When you first saw this, what was your first reaction?
	Did you go, Oh my God, look at this?
	This is what I thought all along?
	My first reaction was, I have to be careful.
	I have to be cautious.
	These are not, the first shots that I saw were not the clear photos.
	And so I was thinking, well, we've just done another thing that people's trying to get excited about.
	But the more, the closer generation photographs that have been sent to me.
	Pretty good ones, yes.
	Pretty good ones.
	And I'm, I just, I know that everybody's hopping on it and they're saying, you know, this is pixel and you can do anything with Photoshop.
	Oh, I know.
	And, you know, I'm pretty excited about it.
	That's what I was going to say.
	Are you excited?
	You just answered that.
	You are excited.
	All right, Lauren, hold on.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	We'll be right back.
	This is Premier Networks.
	That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
	We're going to be back in just a moment.
	We'll be back in just a moment.
	By the little things that Bye.
	Oh, the lights in my world, they feel like painted girls.
	In the day, something matters.
	It's the night, turning back.
	Something matters, it's the night Turn the light, in the night
	No control, through the walls Something's breaking, wearing white
	As you're walking, down the street Of the soul
	Take me down, and take myself control Because you're living only for the light
	Before the morning comes, the story's told Oh, I'm feeling lucky.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 12, 2001.
	Listen, if one of the world's leading cryptozoologists is excited, then I am too.
	I was actually before, but my, my, my, my, you've got to see these photographs and the new enhancements.
	He's done some really good work.
	It's all available through my website at www.artbell.com.
	It's up there right now.
	So, actually, two photographs.
	Two basic, pretty good resolution photographs of this creature.
	And then, if you'll hop over to Lauren Coleman's website, you'll see the new enhancements.
	You definitely want to take a look at those.
	you may be looking at something that nobody's ever seen before.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 12th, 2001.
	Music.
	Back now to Lauren Coleman who's on the East Coast on some sort of mission right now.
	Lauren, are you there?
	Yes, I am.
	Okay.
	By the way, what are you doing back there?
	You're up in Maine or something, aren't you?
	Yeah, I live in Maine.
	I teach at the University of Southern Maine.
	I happen to be further north in Maine tonight because I'm doing some training tomorrow.
	All right.
	The picture of the creature, which I'm sitting here looking at right now, number one, it looks pretty big.
	Yeah.
	There's a lot of bulk to this creature, isn't there?
	Yeah, I think they're relatively heavy.
	If you look below some of the small palmanos right there, you can see that either the foot or the leg reaches all the way to the bottom of the better picture.
	And then you have a pretty wide creature here.
	We're getting some measurements of those, but probably those plants are about four and a half feet tall.
	So this creature is about that high, but then In the second photograph where it backs up and stands up, you can see that it can increase its height.
	I was going to say it's kind of hunched over.
	Right.
	It's hunched over in the first picture.
	It looks like it has some leaves in its mouth.
	It moves back with those leaves in its mouth.
	Right.
	But it's showing its canines in the usual primate sort of display of some fright or at least some warning.
	Now here's what a lot of people would say.
	The lady, this older lady, took a photograph, the first photograph, and when the flash went off, if she actually saw this creature, she never would have taken a second photograph.
	Well, I know I wouldn't have.
	I've been talking to some camera experts, and she may have, her camera may have been one of these that recycled three times in one second.
	That's true.
	So she may have just quickly done two flashes.
	Without realizing how close she was to the thing.
	Her letter certainly talks about her being very scared.
	Scared that her grandchildren are going to be harmed.
	Do you have that letter?
	Yes, it's actually up on my website.
	It's on your website?
	Yeah, it's linked to the website.
	Is it a long letter?
	It's a one-page letter.
	I don't have it in front of me.
	But it's on your website, so again, people can read it.
	Yes.
	And she says things like, you know, Please come deal with this.
	Capture it and put it in bush gardens.
	How can you let this thing roam the neighborhood?
	So the concern is certainly there.
	Okay, well that sounds also realistic.
	The eyes are pretty interesting.
	They look kind of realistic to me too.
	Yeah, you have the reports in this country show that it's a nocturnal animal.
	In nocturnal animals you do have this eye shine.
	And in this eyeshine, it's not red eyeshine like you would find if this was a man in a suit, in which his eyes were shown through.
	The eyeshine here is more yellow.
	Exactly.
	Exactly right.
	Now, an obvious question is, how... We've always asked this about Bigfoot.
	How could Bigfoot exist, you know, in modern America, and not be found?
	Well, of course, occasionally we do have reports, and the occasional picture even moving Well, you have a couple things going here.
	First, primates are very intelligent.
	Skunk apes, Bigfoot, Yeti, different things like that are not going to do anything other than avoid man.
	and not be seen but just every now and then.
	Right. Well, you have a couple things going here.
	First, primates are very intelligent.
	Skunk apes, Bigfoot, Yeti, different things like that are not going to do anything other than avoid man.
	They know where the danger is, and so they're going to avoid humans.
	The other thing, it's quite surprising to people, but if you look at the land surface of Africa, only 28% of the land surface of Africa is wilderness.
	You know what that is for North America?
	38%.
	I live in a state in which 95% of the state in Maine is covered with trees.
	In Florida, you get past the coast.
	And you have a vast wilderness area of grasslands and swamps in the middle of the state.
	And in the Myakka area, where these were seen, it's relatively undeveloped.
	And so you have a state park there.
	You have a river.
	You have greenbelts.
	And you have swamp.
	And also, different conservation lands and religious groups have put land aside.
	And they don't like people to come on it.
	And it's very interesting, the reports in 1963 through 1966, in the counties north of this, on the west coast of Florida, were in the Mormon lands, the lands of the Desert Ranch.
	And so here we have again a situation where, not in Everglades, not in the southern part where you've had a lot of hoaxes during the 90s, but once again on the west coast of Florida, we're seeing these photographs which are Quite remarkable.
	Would this be a relative of Bigfoot?
	Well, no more a relative of Bigfoot than we are.
	In fact, probably Bigfoot, as far as anthropologically speaking, is closer related to us.
	This creature is closer related to chimpanzees and orangutans.
	That's why I call it an unknown cognate.
	It's a great ape.
	It's probably a great ape that we don't exactly know why Why there are breeding populations in Florida.
	If this creature does exist, and we're looking at it, how long would you imagine that it has been walking the earth?
	Well, as long as we have.
	I mean, these, as long as chimpanzees.
	Whether or not they've been in this area of Florida for that long is another thing, but we do have Native American legends from The south from Louisiana of these creatures, of these more ape-like creatures.
	The Louisiana area would be very similar to this area, wouldn't it?
	Right.
	Over in Louisiana, you have a thing called the Honey Island Swamp Monster.
	So in various locations in the south, they call them boogers or swamp monsters or other localized, regionalized names.
	Tunk Ape is the name that's generally come out of Florida.
	There's been a big controversy for a long time Regarding what to do with the first one of these, or Bigfoot, for example, that would be cornered would be a good way to put it.
	Some people have said, well, you've got to kill one so we can examine it, you know, and dissect it, tear it apart, and figure out what it is, what makes it tick, why it's still here, as much as we can learn about it.
	Others have said, oh no, that would be murder.
	Right, the whole kill versus no kill.
	debate in Bigfoot can be projected on the skunk ape too.
	Of course.
	I think the part that people forget about is a lot of newly discovered animals, and you do have to have a physical body, a physical specimen, are not killed.
	You can capture and release.
	You can do DNA tests, you can do telebiology, you can take pictures, you can do all kinds of things short of killing an animal to prove it exists.
	Well there would have to be Some crew nearby to accomplish that.
	For example, if you were a sheriff's deputy, let's say, and you stumbled upon this, you probably wouldn't run up to it and try to cuff it.
	No, you'd probably get your tranquilizer gun, you'd bring in your animal control folks, and then you'd get the people from Bush Gardens and from the primate centers, and you'd have a media circus, but hopefully there would be some Good cryptozoologists and zoologists fly in right away.
	Okay, so your vote then is, uh, stun it, put it to sleep, and, uh, get it to bush gardens or someplace like that.
	Well, and then I think you create preserves, you create reservoirs, you know, reservations of areas that you know these things exist, and then you protect them, and you put laws into effect right away.
	It's been done with the coelacanth in Indonesia.
	They discovered a whole population of You know, 65 million year old fossil living fossil coelacanth off of Indonesia two years ago, and that whole area now is a protected area.
	Lauren, if we were to capture one of these creatures, what might we learn?
	Well, I think we'd learn that we're not alone.
	I think that a lot of people think that human beings are the most intelligent primates that walk upright.
	And I think Bigfoot and skunk apes and things like that would show us that there's probably a lot more surprises on this earth than we could ever imagine.
	Well, if we were as bright as we thought we were, then we'd already have one of these alive somewhere, and we don't.
	Well, yes and no.
	I mean, if you look back at the history of the Mountain Gorilla, they looked for the Mountain Gorilla for some 60 years, and they only found the first Mountain Gorilla in 1901.
	Good point.
	You know, within the scheme of things, that's really recent history.
	So, and, you know, we're still discovering lots of primates, smaller primates in Brazil, and various animals in the lost world of Vietnam, so... Oh, Loren, what are you... But you're right, we aren't too smart, because maybe they're smarter because they're staying away from us.
	What are your colleagues saying about this?
	Yours is one, a very important voice, of course, but there are others, and I take it you probably Pick up the phone and talk to someone who has seen the photos.
	I think it's the whole spectrum.
	I think, for one thing, there's lots of people that, rightfully so, are holding off any kind of judgment until... I mean, there's lots of speculation that this is a hoax, or it's not authentic, or that there isn't a woman who wrote a letter that somebody is trying to pull a fast one.
	But then there's the other end of the spectrum where you have some genuine interests, some Primatologists have been talking to me, and they're very interested in this developing story.
	They want to, of course, fly low under the radar, but they're listening closely.
	They're watching, and I've been hearing from people from Romania and Russia and Vietnam, Australia.
	Really?
	You know, all over the world.
	There's lots of interest.
	A lot of people in France are watching this very closely.
	Well, Americans become so cynical about modern photography in the digital world, and of people doing hoaxes that I suppose even if you had a perfectly clear high-resolution photo of a Bigfoot at least half of those who looked would cry foul.
	Yes and it's funny because how else would you expect something like this to come about but by some little old lady you know going about trying to protect her yard by taking a picture and it just has so innocently come about and yet Obviously, there's going to be people to say, you know, this is a hoax, or, you know, Art Mills is trying to make a big splash, or something like that.
	Well, I always try to do that, but I mean, if it's a legitimate big splash, and it seems to me this well may be, then fine.
	That's what we're here for.
	Exactly.
	That's what I... And I would rather... What's wonderful about this, actually, is because It's a public record now at the Sheriff's Department.
	This is a public domain picture and we can share this around the world in a way that it's not so easy anymore to share the Patterson film because of all the copyrights and things.
	So I'm very much for sharing information and learning from other people and what their opinions are and what they're seeing in this photograph.
	It's been a quite interesting week.
	Are you at all, I bet it has, are you at all concerned, Lauren, that a bunch of guys named Bubba with guns are going to go get them one of these?
	Well, I think that, you know, in talking to the Sheriff's Department down there, they're very worried about that.
	And the woman in her letters said she didn't want people tramping through her yard and different things.
	And that does happen.
	It occasionally, in all of the monster scares, you have, you know, five or six people that are arrested.
	But what What happens very quickly is law enforcement do do their job and people see that the only people that are going to hurt are other hunters.
	So that usually disappears quite quickly.
	Would this be a legitimate target for a hunter?
	I don't think so.
	I think that most primates are protected in the laws of Florida and so probably someone would get in trouble very quickly if they shot one of these.
	But, you know, there are also laws in most states that if people feel like they're attacked.
	What we find about the skunk apes, though, they generally seem to be more timid than some of the Midwestern reports you hear about Bigfoot attacking dogs and things like that.
	These are creatures that eat vegetation?
	They're not meat eaters?
	Right.
	They're vegetarians.
	They're probably some insects and smaller rodents they may eat.
	Most of the great apes are vegetarians.
	Would you think that if you got too close and that if it felt threatened it would hurt a human?
	No, I think all I've read and heard and interviewed witnesses for the last 40 years is that they do have bluff techniques in which they try to rush towards you or beat on their chest or make loud sounds, but I've not heard of any active attacks in the southern Well, if it beat its chest or rushed toward me, I'd be going... It would work.
	Exactly.
	What further study are you going to be able to do with these photographs, or have you now gone as far as you can go?
	No, no.
	There's some wonderful pixel analysis people working around the country and in other countries on this photograph, looking at minute details of the fingernails, whether or not there's spaces in some of the teeth.
	It's getting down to a very fine point.
	And so far it's holding up?
	So far it's holding up.
	People who have gone into this looking at this picture very skeptically are coming back to me on the third and fourth look and they're saying, you know, I'm getting down to a level that there's dimension here.
	It's not a cardboard cutout.
	Right.
	We've got something here.
	This really is an exciting photograph.
	I thought so when I first saw it, but I've been dealing with the pixel people so long and If this creature exists, then isn't there some reason to go ahead and believe that Bigfoot could just as easily be as real as this creature?
	Exactly, we have to do that and I've been real happy and surprised with what have been
	the initial results.
	If this creature exists, then isn't there some reason to go ahead and believe that Bigfoot
	could just as easily be as real as this creature?
	Well, I think that we have to look at the predominance of evidence, you know, that we
	have to accept the building body of evidence, of footprints, of photographs and it's quite
	remarkable.
	Once again, an overused word, I guess, for me tonight, but this is a remarkable photograph, and I think it lends much to all of our hopes for other cryptozoological discoveries around America.
	And the world.
	That is really, then, exciting stuff, Lauren.
	Do you plan, by the way, To go to Florida at all, or I suppose, obviously, if they suddenly were to capture one, I'm sure you'd be down there in a flash.
	Right.
	Well, yeah, I've been to Florida quite often since 1978 on various expeditions, and I plan to go down probably sometime this spring, as soon as there's no ice between here and there.
	By the way, you brought up something else that I hadn't thought of.
	You're absolutely right.
	That poor lady who took this photograph, for obvious reasons you wouldn't want to give your name, but then to keep people out of your yard, to keep the Bubbas out of your yard, you definitely wouldn't want to give your name.
	Exactly.
	It's kind of nice that the Tampa Tribune did publish an article today and they mentioned David and they did some quotes from experts and different things like that without naming the experts.
	There's also this tinge of ridicule in the article.
	I know.
	They can't help themselves.
	The poor woman, she knows that's probably going to be part of it.
	We're hoping that she does at least anonymously or, you know, confidentially identify herself so that we can talk to her about it and look at the negatives.
	We need to look at the negatives of it.
	Of course.
	How did you like their headline?
	Absolute, kinda, irrefutable proof of skunk ape.
	Well, a pretty good You know, like they say, sometimes it's easier to laugh than to think.
	That's right.
	So they should have really, with this photograph, of course they're not a good judge of that, but they really should have treated this a little more seriously.
	Yeah, well, and at least they published it and at least they're talking about it.
	So maybe somebody, you know, I really respect how you seriously deal with things.
	I think that our hope is that more people will look at this in a serious way so that we can get to the bottom of it.
	Well, exciting stuff, Lauren.
	I really want to thank you for being on the program.
	I'm sure you're going to have a really, really, really busy website, my friend.
	Okay, thank you.
	Lauren, good night, and thanks for being on so late from Maine.
	Okay.
	Take care.
	All right, folks, that's Lauren Coleman.
	And as I said earlier, if Lauren's excited, being one of the world's leading cryptozoologists, I certainly am.
	If you want to see the photographs, go to my website.
	And after this, I don't see how you could not want to see the photographs.
	www.artbell.com and be sure to zip over, you'll see the link to Lauren's website, and see the new enhancements.
	This is some kind of weird creature, I'll tell you that.
	Coming up, Colm Callagher from Nibs.
	It should be quite a night.
	I'm Art Bell, this is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring ghost to ghost am from february 12 2001 power.
	Of the day that I was born I pray to die Little Dr. Peter took me knee high to a flash
	Yeah, gave me peace of mind my daddy never had Oh little Dr. Peter friend
	Premier Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from February 12th, 2001.
	Good morning, and if you missed the first hour, you missed something really important.
	One of the world's leading cryptozoologists, Loren Coleman, was here, because this skunk ape thing, the photographs we've got of this so-called skunk ape in Florida, Have really blown up since we got him up last week.
	Loren Coleman had already been working on all of this in private and he's a heavyweight.
	He thinks it may be the real thing.
	So we talked about that for an hour.
	You may want to go take a look.
	We've got a link to Loren Coleman's website.
	He's got enhanced photographs of this whatever it is, this skunk ape.
	And you may be seeing something for the first time.
	That's That's worth seeing.
	So, if you get an opportunity, go to my website, right now, at www.artvell.com, and take a look at this creature, or take another look, or take a look at the enhanced photographs.
	They're available if you go to, well, you know, who's on tonight.
	You'll see Lorne Coleman was kind of shoved in there at the last moment, bless his heart, all the way from Maine.
	And he commented for an hour on these photographs.
	And it's an incredible story.
	And it's absolutely an incredible creature.
	There's no question about it.
	So, you want to see something you never saw before, that Lauren is leaning toward believing may be real?
	It's all on my website right now at www.artbell.com.
	This hour, we turn our attention in a new and very exciting direction.
	National Institute for Discovery Science.
	What is that?
	We'll find out.
	My guest is Colm Kelleher.
	He's Deputy Administrator of MIDS, and oversees day-to-day investigations, research projects, reports, and MIDS staff.
	That's a lot to do.
	He has a PhD in biochemistry, with multiple years experience in biomedical research, including genetic engineering, viruses, immunology, and brain-immune crosstalk.
	He's got a lot to talk to us about, because it's been a long time.
	He's backed by the Bigelow Foundation, and Bob Bigelow is a good friend.
	Bob Bigelow, he never likes me to say it, he's a good zillionaire, which is just sort of a term.
	He doesn't actually have a good zillion.
	Not that there is such a thing as a good zillion.
	But he's got a bunch, and he uses it in areas that should interest all of you, and I know do interest all of you.
	In trying to root out, scientifically, answers to so many of the things that we're puzzled by on this program and that we deal with.
	So, coming up in a moment, Colm Cullohan.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring coast-to-coast a m from february twelfth two thousand one
	here we go to uh... las vegas and to come come over and as i mentioned uh...
	uh... part of the bigelow foundation or at both certainly funded in part by the
	bigelow foundation bob bigelow does have uh...
	a lot of resources to pour into legitimate scientific investigation of
	the unusual the paranormal whatever it is you want to call it
	They're doing very serious research.
	They have investigators that can be dispatched to Any point in the world, really, where anything unusual happens, if it's justified.
	And there are not too many organizations that have that ability and that resourcefulness to be able to actually get in there and really do it quick.
	Here's Colm Culler.
	Colm, welcome back to the program.
	Great to be here again, Art.
	It's good to hear your voice in the air.
	Thank you.
	There's a lot of ground to cover because it's been quite a while.
	But before we get started, I guess I would ask you your take.
	I know you've seen these photographs that we discussed last hour with Lauren Coleman.
	And you were starting to make a point before we actually got on the air that I thought we probably ought to make here.
	What do you think?
	Well, we have backed into this area of Sasquatch or Bigfoot or whatever you want to call that creature.
	I'm really through the back door and that is when we intensively study an area of the country, for example Utah or New Mexico or even lately Montana, what we find is after people gain our trust and we gain people's trust, after the UFO reports and after the other reports, people start talking about Sasquatch sightings or Bigfoot sightings.
	This has happened in three separate locations for us, and we really do not know what to do with these reports, and we have got quite a few of them.
	We've had up-close sightings by law enforcement officials who are really good observers of the large, standard 7 to 8 foot, 500 pound animal within less than 100 feet sometimes.
	In northern Utah, for example, we've had probably five to six separate reports of this kind of creature.
	Well, there's also a connection, or seemingly a connection, isn't there, to UFO reports and sightings of Bigfoot or other creatures, and so it kind of bends it occasionally toward the paranormal, doesn't it?
	It bends it very much towards the paranormal and that's where we end up.
	We place the Bigfoot sightings in a category that we have not put a lot of intensive research into, but at the same time we know that the cryptozoology wing of the Bigfoot study groups are very much against the whole idea of a UFO Bigfoot connection.
	But it's kind of ironic because we're not exactly looking for these Bigfoot reports, but yet we get them all the time.
	As I mentioned, we get them in Utah, we get them in New Mexico, and we've just completed a fairly major study that I'll be talking about later around Great Falls, Montana, and the same level of Bigfoot reports were tacked on to intensive UFO sightings.
	Well, I know Montana this past summer, of all places, Montana was pretty hot for crop circles, wasn't it?
	That's right.
	There were quite a few actually in July and August up around Whitefish and Kalispell.
	There were quite a few reported there and they were pretty interesting because crop circles, as you know over here, are very different because You don't have the tram lines that you have over across the Atlantic in England where most of the crop formations are found so tracks are much more easily spotted in the fields over here and Montana some of those photographs were pretty
	and lightning and no obvious tracks were seen in those photographs. It does seem to me as
	though the the ones we get here in the US are a simpler form. They're
	not as complex or generally as large as the ones in Europe. Any thoughts
	about why?
	Well you could make the point that the formations that you're looking at in North America
	right now are very closely approximated to the
	kinds of formations that were showing up in Britain in 19...
	Early on, though, right?
	Yeah, early on.
	In other words, ten years ago or even more.
	What does that say?
	Does that say something about the difference in geography?
	Or does it say something about the way they evolved over time in the United Kingdom?
	Or, you know, people who maintain that the majority of these are hoaxes would say that, you know, the crop circle Artists are getting more adept.
	But over in the Montana ones especially, that we had a look at because we had people sample those up in Montana and they were pretty impressed with the lay of the crop in these circles.
	When you say sample, they obviously did a visual examination.
	Did they do anything at the molecular level?
	Well, what they did was they They photographed, it was an investigator up in Whitefish, Montana, photographed the formation and then we had a couple of people who sampled 20 different locations from around the second formation, the one that was in late August in Whitefish and we had a
	A University of Nevada botanist took a look and she was pretty impressed with the fact that all of the plants from inside of the circle had exactly the same breaks in the stem and none of the plants from outside of the circle obviously had that either.
	So she was pretty impressed that it was a genuine article but the plants by the time they arrived We're not in a condition where you could do much molecular analysis because they were collected in the absence of preservatives.
	Did you think that somebody with some chains and boards could have accomplished that?
	Well, you know, we looked for things like exploded nodes and we looked for the standard features of crop formations that have been reported over in England.
	There was none of that.
	The breaks were very near the ground, but the The lie of the formation as reported by the people up there was not consistent with Ford's.
	So there is a bit of a paradox there.
	We were not able to get into the molecular level because of the lack of preservatives.
	A lot of people have thought that crop circles might be some attempt at education and that's why in the early 90s They started out simply in Europe and became more and more complex as time went on.
	Or you could imagine the guys with the boards and chains got better.
	I don't know.
	I don't know which to believe, but I wonder if we're going to follow a similar track here in North America.
	In other words, they begin simple and they become more and more complex.
	Well, certainly the types of formations that we're seeing up in Utah, for example, and also in Montana, Last summer were very reminiscent of the earlier ones.
	Actually, they were pretty close to some of the early ones in 1988, 1990 in Britain.
	So it'll be really interesting to see what kind of complexity it can be generated next summer.
	Do you have any speculation on what they might be?
	In other words, something from aliens, something from satellites, something from magnetic anomalies here on Earth?
	or do you lean more toward the human aspect of it?
	What's your best guess, or is there one?
	Well, I'm pretty sure that there's a percentage, and I think it's a really variable percentage year to year,
	that are done not on the ground, from the air.
	But whether that means that there's some kind of an experiment going on with our aircraft,
	or if it's something more esoteric, I don't know.
	But we're pretty sure that there is a percentage of these formations being done from the air.
	In other words, they're not people going in the fields with boards, or garden rollers, or whatever else is used.
	How can you imagine it would be done from the air?
	Helicopter, perhaps, but you wouldn't think a helicopter would do that, so what else is left?
	Well, we've heard stories and propositions and hypotheses put out by, you know, fairly serious people regarding camouflaged silent aircraft with lasers.
	You know, carbon lasers, or in other words, an attempt made to calibrate Beam weapons and then we've heard other equally well-known physicists and other equally respected people shoot those theories down and say that's absolutely out of the question.
	So there's a real debate going on in some physics people and engineering people.
	What about exotic propulsion systems?
	I'm not sure how that could tie into the You know, what you actually see on the ground.
	How could that tie into the... I have no idea.
	I have no idea.
	All right, I would like people, before we really begin, to understand the importance and the magnitude of what NIDS does.
	And I sort of gave you a little begin, when we began the show here, I kind of outlined a little bit of what NIDS is.
	Able to get on the scene of unusual occurrences with the right sort of assets Well, I think there are essentially four different features that distinguish us from other organizations, and that is that we have multiple experienced ex-law enforcement investigators.
	In other words, we try to do investigations of UFOs, paranormal phenomena associated with UFOs, Even animal mutilations, using police methodology, making sure the chain of custody is intact and all of that.
	I'm not saying that other organizations don't do that, but we have full-time people on our staff who are ex-police, retired police officers.
	Secondly, we do have a lot of resources that we can deploy if we think that a particular case warrants it.
	For example, recently we installed a 9-1-1 system, which is to take in calls from all over the country.
	We have a digital recording system.
	We have eight separate lines that can be simultaneously monitored.
	And we have the ability, we think, to monitor a UFO flap if and whenever a flap occurs.
	So we do have resources.
	We also have a staff of PhD level scientists, backgrounds in biology and physics, phenomenology.
	And also we have a fairly, a very high class science advisory board.
	We have people who are in psychology, we have medical people, we have physics people, we
	have chemists, biologists, statisticians, people who are interested in our backgrounds
	in computer science, engineering.
	So we feel that we have fairly deep pockets to draw on if we want to.
	You obviously do.
	It's a significant organization.
	I know of no other like it.
	Certainly there are many others and they're doing good work, but they don't have the sort of assets that you have available to you.
	Bob Bigelow is behind a lot of this, I know, and I guess I would ask you to try and answer for Bob.
	What do you think has driven Bob It's an incredible thing, I mean, to fund such an incredible effort.
	Do you ever talk to Bob about that?
	Well, I think, you know, definitely Bob Bigelow funds all of this.
	He has funded NIDS since its inception, and then even before that he was funding projects in, as we talked about, crop circle research, in animal mutilation research, in different aspects of paranormal research, or parapsychology even.
	He has really contributed large amounts of money all across the spectrum.
	And five years ago, he really brought everything together so that NIDS could be kind of a central organization where the research could be centralized here in Las Vegas and deployed around the country.
	But motivation?
	Yes.
	I think his interests go way, way back.
	His family members of his family had some very Um, high profile type sightings way back in the early days in the 40s.
	And, um, I think of the, of the youngster, he was very impressed by the quality of those sightings and by the sincerity of the, of the people who witnessed them.
	And that was a real stimulant in, in moving him forward.
	And I think that has evolved over the years, that burning interest to find out why or find out what Find out the basic questions regarding these phenomena, and especially the phenomenon pertaining to the UFO topic.
	Yeah, you bet.
	Well, he's now years into the effort, not as many years with NIDS, but years certainly into the effort, and he has not thrown up his hands and said, I'm wasting my money.
	There's really nothing here.
	He's still at it.
	So that must say something.
	Yes, I think it does.
	It says a lot for his stamina, because nobody is fooling anybody that these questions are easy ones to answer, because we've had some kind of a focus on these questions at least since the mid-forties, and it's a series of very, very difficult questions.
	Well, he's still at it, so it's obviously not been answered in the negative.
	No, there's always been, I think even since NIDS started, there's been a continuous flow of cases and research projects.
	We started off as an organization, we started off by deploying personnel and equipment up in northern Utah, literally for years, and also in northern New Mexico for the same length of time.
	We spent a lot of time mapping the phenomenon.
	In other words, down on the ground with whatever instruments we could deploy, with whatever observers we could deploy, and then interviewing eyewitnesses in the locality.
	Is there a reason, by the way, for Utah and New Mexico versus anywhere else?
	Well, I think Utah especially has a record that is pretty impressive in terms of a continuous Generation after generation, a series of sightings that can be mapped all the way back to the 1940s.
	Northern New Mexico, along Highway 84, that would be all the way from Chama, Dulce, all the way across to Española, would have the same kind of long history of UFO sightings.
	All right.
	Back to the 50s.
	Hold on for a moment.
	We're at the bottom of the hour, and if everybody would run and get a pencil and paper.
	We're going to be giving you a very, very, very important 911 kind of telephone number to call if you're right in the middle of something happening.
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	This is Premier Networks.
	That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
	This is a test.
	you If you could remind my love What a tale my thoughts could tell Just like an old time movie About a ghost from a wishing well In a castle dark
	Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	Hello everybody!
	From the desert of the sea, this is Maggie.
	Now, we take you back to the past, on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	Hello everybody, from the desert of the sea, this is Maggie.
	Do you want to take a ride?
	Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, written to me about Maggie.
	I just got a fax that says, Maggie!
	One, personally observed and verified scientific fact, it is humanly impossible to hear that little voice and not smile.
	Two, regarding the desert of the sea, the same thought had occurred to me, and that is, Maggie gave an exact description.
	Remember Whitley talking about the extraordinary children he's been meeting on his book and lecture tours?
	Would it be so impossible to imagine that such a child would turn up in Pahrump?
	My opinion, Maggie is much, much older than her admittedly adorable superficial appearance.
	America unites and speaks with one voice.
	Give us more Maggie.
	All right, Callum Gallaher is my guest and you're in for a real treat as we begin to describe some of the recent research done by NIDS.
	they get into some pretty strange stuff coming right up.
	Take Coast to Coast AM with you anywhere on your mobile phone.
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	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM.
	Let's talk a little bit about the shadow government.
	Do you believe it's there?
	Yeah, we've heard that term, you know, for so many years, and I thought it was this group in the Netherlands that sit behind smoked windows and make decisions like, you know, giant players of chess.
	But it isn't.
	We don't have the government anymore.
	What we have is a loose coalition of bureaucracies.
	But we have no representation in that government.
	So when I look at the Constitution, I see it as a really inspired and eternal document that has been sidestepped in almost every legal way possible.
	So the process itself has been intentionally manipulated to facilitate a certain style of government.
	And it's taken a while to set up.
	But I think it's set up now, and it's working just the way they like it.
	We need a systemic change.
	In order to let the Republic be representative of the people again.
	Now, we take you back to the past.
	on art bell somewhere in time once again back to come on the lower who is uh... the
	deputy administrator of needs an overseas day-to-day investigations
	He's really got to talk to you about this sort of thing.
	Colm, let me ask you this.
	The lady who allegedly took the photograph of this creature down in Florida didn't want her name used.
	And I certainly can't say I blame her for a variety of reasons.
	She didn't want people tromping around in her backyard.
	She didn't want The people laughing at her.
	She didn't want to be the object of ridicule.
	And we're about to give out a number for nids.
	A kind of a 911 sort of number for UFO reports, for what have you.
	All aspects, I guess, pretty much of the paranormal.
	If somebody calls nids and wants, you know, they don't want to end up on the front page of their local newspaper.
	That's understandable.
	How do you treat people when they call?
	Well, if they call tonight, you'll have two people actually who will be talking to them.
	That'll be Connie Van Horn and Mindy Floyd.
	And what we do is we guarantee absolutely confidentiality when people call us.
	We don't release any data at all without express permission from the people who originally called in.
	And then, later on, after tonight, we'll probably have a quick conversation tonight.
	After tonight, we will have an investigator follow-up, probably tomorrow, on people who called tonight.
	And we go through an itemized series of questions that will pinpoint all of the details of the And we take either recent or historical sightings.
	Obviously, we prefer recent, and the highest preference would be anything to do with physical traces.
	In other words, any effects, electromagnetic effects on cars, cell phones, hearing aids, you name it, TVs, or else.
	Any traces, any effects on animals, any physical traces that are left on the ground, any burn marks on the ground if the object is landing.
	They're the real cases that interest us and we have noticed that those types of cases are very rare.
	So initially it'll be an investigator calling you, getting all of the details, then we start beating the bushes for additional eyewitnesses.
	But you're going to protect these people from the press?
	Oh yes, absolutely.
	If the press Call us, and we do get a lot of media calls.
	I bet you do.
	We don't release the names of eyewitnesses.
	On occasion, eyewitnesses do want their names released.
	Different story.
	I'm just trying to explain to people that they don't have to be afraid to call, and this is one serious organization that will investigate without blowing your career out of the water, or whatever.
	It is really important.
	A lot of people do not call for that very reason, so we really do want to encourage people to make the call and talk to us, because in the five year history that we've been around, we have never released the names of anybody without express permission from people.
	It's really important that people call us, because if they don't call us, we can't investigate it.
	That's right.
	emphasize that we do, in the appropriate cases, we do go to the wall in terms of investigation.
	I know you do.
	We have the ability to go to the wall. Obviously, if somebody calls in with a distant light in the
	sky that may or may not be Saturn or Venus, we're not going to spend an awful lot of time flying
	around looking for it. But depending on the cases, we will investigate them.
	Let's move through some of the recent case summaries that you've had.
	Things that NID has been doing.
	What have you been doing?
	Well, you know, it's really good because we announced this 24-hour hotline just over a year ago on your show, as you probably remember.
	I sure do.
	In the interim, we have gone through this process of analyzing and investigating, tracking down, and all of that, of just under 600 cases.
	Wow!
	And that's not the numbers of calls we've received, they're the cases that we've gone through the trouble of tracking down additional eyewitnesses, investigating, and then we have a system where we enter it into a database, we assign a credibility index, and all of that, And then we try to map the cases geographically to see if there's any patterns.
	So we've done that in 600 cases, and what really has leapt out in the last 12 months is the black triangle issue, which a lot of people have talked about.
	We've got this really almost by default.
	About 116 separate cases that we've got in the last 12 months.
	Are these black triangles?
	And they all, or most of them, have the same modus operandi.
	They're flying very low.
	Over 60% of the cases that we have, of the 116 cases, are flying below 1,000 feet.
	And they're all very large.
	They're all extremely brightly lit.
	They all have the performance characteristics that they're silent.
	They can turn on a dime.
	In other words, they rotate.
	They don't bank.
	They can accelerate to very high speeds without making noise.
	They don't fly.
	They float.
	Or they defy gravity, or however you want to put it.
	Because, as you know, I saw one.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	And your description fits the category beautifully.
	Well, it was a long time ago, and people weren't talking triangles, except, I think, in Europe.
	A little bit when I saw this, but since it's just been triangle after triangle after triangle.
	I was at the Super Bowl in Tampa, and they flew the B-2 bomber right over my head.
	Oh yeah?
	And I suppose if you were to see that, and it was low, you would think you were seeing an alien craft.
	The only thing is, it sounds like a jet aircraft.
	Yeah.
	The noise of the B-2 is pretty impressive.
	Sure.
	Absolutely no relationship to the triangle that I saw.
	So you've had a lot of reports then of triangles?
	We've had a lot of reports of triangles.
	Most of them are black, dark green, or blue, but we do have about 15% of our callers report silver.
	Silver triangles, which we don't know if that's a different make or whatever, but it's definitely there.
	And about 10% of these triangular cases do have effects on cell phones or radios or autos.
	And just lately, we've had a couple of cases involving biological effects, which is what I wanted to focus on, because these are really the cases that start opening the doors to further analysis.
	What kind of biological effects?
	Ask he who was under one of these.
	Well, there are two separate cases that we're working on right now.
	One of them happened in Maine, at a remote area in Maine, involving three people.
	There was a mother, her mother, and then there was a young son.
	The son was affected after seeing this object going right overhead at about 200-300 feet, very slowly.
	immediately preceded by two what looked like silent helicopters unmarked black silent helicopters so in other words they were standing in a clearing in a campground in Maine and the first thing they see was coming over just over the trees were two silent helicopters and then almost immediately after this was a low-flying black triangular object no noise just a kind of a very deep vibration that was felt rather than heard Five or six hours later, the little boy woke up describing extreme heat in his gut.
	He said his stomach was burning.
	And then the mother noticed that the skin on the back of his neck was really peeling, and it looked like burn marks.
	Really?
	He was taken to a local hospital, and we're still investigating this.
	We're trying to track the medical records.
	Five hours after this incident, the skin was peeling.
	The doctor said that, in his opinion, it looked like some kind of a radiation effect.
	However, biologically, we know that a gap of five hours for radiation rules out most of the normal types of radiation.
	In other words, ionizing radiation, ultraviolet.
	We know there was no ultraviolet because the boy was not sunburned.
	We're chopping down these little clues.
	That's the first case that we know of.
	This was at night?
	Of the what?
	This was at night.
	This was at night, yeah.
	It was about 10.30 at night.
	And the boy woke up at about 5.30 or 5 o'clock the following morning.
	It was very, very soon.
	And we have the photographs of those burns, so we're tracking that case because It may give an indication of the kind of radiation that was deployed.
	Now, interestingly, there are some parallels with the famous Cash Landrum incident in Texas, where two women and a young boy were subjected to intense radiation, but all three people were affected.
	In this case, in Maine, only the boy was affected.
	That's the first case.
	Now the second case is definitely worth following up from my perspective because I'm a biologist and I have an interest in genetics.
	This case happened in Saskatchewan and again it was a low flying, actually more like a flying wing, but it had a triangular shape roughly.
	Came overhead again and this lady's plants All had were deeply affected.
	She had several different types of flowers that underwent a dramatic change in the following two to three days.
	She felt a lot of tingling, static electricity kind of effect as the object went right overhead.
	And this was a daylight.
	What about microwaves?
	Well, you mean in the first case?
	Well, in either one of the cases.
	In other words, you feel a tingling, or you feel a warmth, or you get a burn.
	Microwave would do that, wouldn't it?
	Well, if human tissue was being cooked, you know, it would show up fairly quickly.
	And there would be hot spots in the internal organs.
	For sure.
	Precisely.
	Yeah, it would show up with It's early days.
	We really need to get their medical records before we can go further.
	I mean, you were talking about other kinds of radiation.
	Microwave would roughly, I think, have those effects.
	Yeah.
	Microwave is definitely high up there.
	If we eliminate ultraviolet and we eliminate the ionizing radiation, we definitely need to look at radio waves and microwaves.
	You know, you could even put out the hypothesis that if By any chance, this was a military, some sort of a military object, that electronic countermeasures put out fairly substantial blasts of radio waves, you know, high frequency radio waves, which border on the microwave region.
	If you wanted to look at it from that point of view.
	And where was this again the second incident?
	In Maine.
	You know, why would they be doing a lot of high-powered ECM low to the ground?
	Yeah, it doesn't make any sense unless it was an accident or something.
	But it really doesn't make any sense and most of the really low-flying black triangular craft or objects make no sense from the perspective of testing and deploying stealth aircraft.
	For example, they're deploying extremely bright lights, they're deploying You know, really low over housing areas and close to large areas of population.
	We talked about it on a previous show with you in Illinois involving four police officers, which was within 20 miles of St.
	Louis, Missouri.
	I mean, we're talking heavy population there.
	We're speculating that one of the reasons that we're seeing this again and again, flying below 1,000 feet, is that they're flying below radar.
	Right, below radar.
	Well, if you imagine it might be our military, you certainly would have a hard time imagining why they would do it over a populated area A and B. Even if they did, why would they light up like Christmas trees?
	Yeah, it's very, very risky.
	And it brings in a really significant air safety issue into this whole equation.
	You know, people talk about air safety mostly from the perspective of the pilots, but you know, from the perspective of people on the ground, if you've got low-flying, extremely large objects that are floating over your house on a regular basis, it does get dangerous.
	We have had people talk to us, eyewitnesses who have described that these objects coming so low That they start running.
	You know, that it's coming right over the treetops.
	Very, very strange.
	You know, I was just talking about the biological effects on the flowers.
	Yes.
	We had... What actually happened, by the way?
	Well, what happened was that this series of petunia, purple petunia flowers, underwent a series of orchestrated changes in the flower color.
	First of all, they changed from purple To white stripes, then they change to all white, then they change to lime green.
	You're kidding!
	Over a three-day period.
	Now, we're not talking one flower, we're talking about all flowers.
	Now that means that there was a pretty heavy effect on the genetics of that plant.
	Right.
	There were specific genes transcribed over a particular time period that led to these orchestrated changes.
	So what we're doing currently is we're talking with different genetics labs that focus on
	petunia research to see if we can get a handle on the kinds of energy that affected plants
	in such an orchestrated way.
	So I'm using this as an example of the kinds of effects that people could call into us
	on our hotline because they will give us a window on the kinds of effects that are happening
	to people, animals and plants as a result of these cases.
	Well, you know, the burns and all the rest of it sounds like something out of Close Encounters of the Third Kind, you know, the beginning of that movie.
	Yeah, yeah.
	The burn, the sun coming out, all the rest of it.
	The only difference with this kid was that there was no evidence of sunburn at all.
	And, you know, the sunburn is definitely a feature of a lot of these cases, but this was not a sunburn.
	And that made us think of, you know, more in the radio wave, microwave, but it's really early days.
	So that little boy may have been literally cooked.
	Well, that was one of the things that we thought of and we're obviously talking to medical people about this to see if we can go further with it.
	All right.
	Column, we're at the top of the hour, so hold it right where you are, and we'll be right back.
	Column color, Deputy Administrator of NIDS, the National Institute for Discovery Science.
	I'm Art Bell, and we'll keep rolling through the night from the high desert.
	Stay right where you are.
	The trip back in time continues, with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	More, somewhere in time, coming up.
	Don't bring me down. No, no, no, no, no.
	I'll tell you once more before I get up the floor.
	Don't bring me down.
	You wanna see us with your fancy friends.
	I'm telling you it's gonna be near.
	Don't bring me down. No, no, no, no, no.
	I'll tell you one more before I get off the floor.
	Don't bring me down.
	Sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet She's got better days than I, she's got a music on
	You won't have to think twice She's pure as New York snow
	She's got better days than I She'll ease you, she'll unheed you
	Cause Rebecca's just a plebeian She's a coach, yeah, and she knows just what it takes to
	make a program She's got better troubles than I, she's got better days
	than I You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from February 12th, 2001.
	Good morning everybody, it's great to be back.
	If you'd like to, and you haven't yet, please make note of the NIDS number.
	They have the resources, they have the infrastructure, and they'll keep your name confidential.
	So if you have something you want to report, particularly with physical evidence, but not necessarily so, Those lines are open right now and then normally during the day.
	If you want to see the NIDS website, go to my website and click under tonight's guest, Colm Culloher, and you'll see the link to the NIDS website.
	I've got a question about the NIDS website and something about Area 51 in a moment.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 12th, 2001.
	2001.
	The close encounter that my wife and I had was here in Pahrump, Nevada.
	The craft was headed directly toward Area 51.
	A lot of people have said, well, Area 51 is not anymore.
	I have in front of me something that I'm going to read to you.
	It's got a lot of apparent legalese in it.
	For immediate release, from the President of the United States, dated February 1st, 2001.
	What I'm going to read is a text of a letter from the President to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President of the Senate.
	Dear Mr. Speaker, Dear Mr. President, Consistent with Section 6001A of the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act, RCRA, the Act as amended, 42 U.S.C.
	6961A, notification is hereby given that on September 19, 2000, President Clinton issued Presidential Determination 2000-30, copy attached, and thereby exercised his authority to grant certain exemptions under Section 6001A of the Act.
	Presidential Determination 2000-30 exempted the United States Air Force's operating location near Groom Lake, Nevada from any federal, state, interstate, or local hazardous or solid waste laws ...that would require the disclosure of classified information concerning that operating location to unauthorized persons.
	Information concerning activities at the operating location near Groom Lake has been properly determined to be classified, and its disclosure would be harmful to national security.
	Continued protection of this information is, therefore, in the paramount interest of the United States.
	The determination was not intended to imply that in the absence of a presidential exemption, RCRA or any other provision of law permits or requires a disclosure of classified information to unauthorized persons.
	The determination also was not intended to limit the applicability or enforcement of any requirement of law applicable to the Air Force's operating location near Groom Lake Accept those provisions, if any, that would require the disclosure of classified information.
	Sincerely, George W. Bush.
	So, tell them, what do you think?
	Is Area 51 still in business?
	Well, never having been there, I can't really talk about it.
	Sounds that way, anyway.
	I know the photographs, the satellite photographs that are all around the internet now are pretty impressive.
	Yes, they are.
	The latest series are pretty good.
	It looks like an extensive series of buildings, but I really have no idea.
	We do, like you talked about, your sighting was going from Pahrump towards Area 51.
	We do get calls from St.
	George, Nevada, you know, of objects heading over the mountains towards, or St.
	George, Utah, heading over towards Area 51.
	We also get calls sometimes from north of Las Vegas.
	Same thing, but you know, it's the ultimate black box in terms of research.
	Going in and trying to do some kind of scientific research when all of the restrictions you
	just mentioned are in, you know, they're applying.
	It's really a dead end for us and we stay away from it.
	Little things like getting shot, I mean, if you go up there and stuff like that.
	Well, yeah, we've gone down by the black or the white mailbox, and we've checked out the guys in the white Jeep Cherokees who stop you from going any further.
	And even then, you're like 30 or 40 miles away from anything interesting.
	I know.
	I'll tell you a little secret.
	There was a producer here.
	about a week ago from NBC's Today Show.
	They did a little piece on me in the morning.
	Yeah.
	And the producer said, Come on, Art.
	Not you and I. Let's go up to Area 51.
	Let's take the back way in.
	Let's invade the place.
	I said, You go right ahead, Michael.
	Let me know how you do when you get out of jail.
	That's right.
	See you in 20 years.
	All right.
	Now, one other question with regard to the Black Triangle story you told about with the two Silent black helicopters.
	Yes.
	Now, obviously, to any thinking person, it wouldn't seem like an alien culture would have any need for silent black helicopters.
	And so, to me, that means either our government A, knows they're here and is in some sort of league with them, or B, the whole thing is government.
	The black helicopter has been an enigma for what, 30 years now?
	A long time.
	We've talked to people who have seen black helicopters hovering over cattle in northern New Mexico.
	They've described these objects taking off at the speed of a jet fighter.
	These black helicopters on occasion have really high performance characteristics.
	The silent black helicopters that I talked about in Maine just came over.
	It was almost like they drifted over the campsite.
	You may recall the Cash Landrum sighting in Texas.
	The event was about 15 to 20 helicopters associated with this large craft in Texas.
	Now, there was a very, very intensive effort to track down those 15 to 20 helicopters that were flying in association with the UFO in Texas in 1980 without success.
	In other words, those helicopters could not be found.
	So, there's a real discrepancy between the deployment of these helicopters and the numbers of people who were Well, that's where I was going.
	not to say that there is black ops happening all the time but you know
	file a black helicopters do fly but there's a lot of discrepancy
	we're not able to explain it and uh...
	we've heard a lot of talk recently especially about the the whole concept
	of u f o mimicry well that was where i was going i was gonna ask you
	is it not possible
	column that they can cause us to see
	whatever they wish us to see.
	Thank you.
	Well, we know that the UFO phenomenon does have an effect.
	It's able to manipulate perception.
	I think the 40 to 50 year history of the UFO phenomenon really points that out.
	And I think Jacques Vallée, for example, has done a lot of work pointing that whole aspect out.
	His focus really has been showing that there's a physical effect, there are psychological effects, and there are even psychic effects, if you want to use the term psychic.
	So, you've got a tremendously sophisticated series of phenomena that are capable of interacting, you know, with the physical level, with the psychological level, and with the psychic level, which means that we're, as observers, We're pretty subjective, to put it mildly.
	If we're having all three levels being manipulated, maybe even simultaneously, then you can make the strong point that we're not really seeing what we see.
	That's very troubling.
	Well, from the point of view of eyewitness testimony, it certainly does raise questions, and it also raises questions about credibility.
	Just the number of bizarre incidents and very, very difficult to explain.
	Sightings of these convoys of helicopters around the UFO phenomenon are very, very difficult to explain.
	Well, I guess there's two choices.
	Either you're being invited to see what you Something that is familiar to you that you can at least semi-explain.
	A helicopter is something we know about.
	Or, there is some government involvement.
	Which way do you lean or do you sort of wobble between?
	Well, the data goes both ways.
	There's definitely aberrancies in perception from what people report and see.
	I mean, we even have people who go into Two people go into the same incident and report different things, different features of craft, which seems to me to be fairly indicative, number one, of eyewitness unreliability, but also, number two, of this whole facet of interactions with psychology.
	The short answer is we really don't have enough data to say.
	John in Brooklyn, Ohio asks a question on We have a little facility here called Fast Blast where they can send a computer question.
	And he says, hi Art, in the UFO phenomenology section of the NIDS website, under the news items section, there are articles about UFO encounters that occurred in China, but for some reason they cannot be accessed.
	They cannot be accessed?
	Right, he can't seem to get to them somehow.
	So, are there just headlines there, or what's on the side about China?
	Well, I know in the news section, there's several headlines from quite a long time ago.
	They should be accessible, though.
	You remember last, at the end of 1999, Christmas 1999, there were several reports from different areas of China of multiple UFOs.
	Yes.
	So we put up the various links.
	Having to do with those.
	Unless the link died, and that sometimes happens, it should be accessible.
	Otherwise, maybe there was a link that simply went away.
	Yeah, we can check on that.
	Nobody's hiding anything anyway.
	No, we're not hiding anything.
	But, you know, I wanted to mention the helicopter issue because We've just completed on our website, we just put up
	actually about 12 hours ago, a fairly major report on a series, a wave of UFO helicopter activity
	centered around Malmstrom Air Force Base in 1974 to 1977 and that really does raise the
	question of this helicopter issue.
	The data came out of a retired police officer who was based in Great Falls, Montana during
	the 1970s.
	The reason we were interested in this whole case was because he had the original police blotters and he made them available to us.
	They documented a really frenzied series of UFO sightings over a period of two years involving About 128 to 129 separate UFO reports that came into his office from a 40 mile radius around Malmstrom Air Force Base and on top of that there was an additional 60 odd sightings of helicopter activity.
	Now these are helicopters that Malmstrom Air Force Base and nearby National Guard bases were deliberately trying to track, and they could not track most of these helicopter sightings.
	They managed to track a very small number, but the majority of these 63 sightings of helicopters, they did not know where they were coming from.
	And finally, in this database from Montana, right in the middle of this whole UFO helicopter wave, there was 67 mutilations.
	So you've got a wave of UFO helicopter activity and you've also got a wave of animal mutilations that are interspersed.
	We got one of the better statisticians around to take a look at this data.
	She's a statistician from the University of California at Davis and she has documented We think it's the first time it's been documented that there is a very strong statistical significant link between UFO helicopters and the animal mutilation phenomenon.
	Now obviously we've heard a lot in the past about people reporting weird lights in the sky around the same time as mutilations but we think because of these high numbers involved we're talking really if you look at it about 300 cases if you add all of them together Over a very short period of time, over a couple of years, we think this is the first time where an actual strong and scientifically backable statistical finding has been reported.
	And we just put that up on our website about 12 hours ago.
	Really?
	What is the incidence of eyewitnesses seeing animals virtually beaming up to a craft or dumped out of a craft?
	Well, we're aware of the case involving the elk up in, was it Washington State there last year?
	Yeah, oh that was a big case, yeah, a lot of witnesses.
	That was like 14 separate, that was the report that we got 14 separate witnesses and I know that that I believe that case is still being worked on.
	We did not get involved in that case, but I know other people did.
	We've heard other reports, similar type reports, not involving so many eyewitnesses, but we've also had quite a few reports of animals with several legs being broken, as if these animals are being dropped from a height.
	We've also had reports of impact craters.
	Impact craters?
	Impact craters, in other words, where a very heavy animal has been dropped.
	We haven't directly investigated any of those.
	Can you imagine, in your wildest dreams, why our government, and they're the only ones you can imagine would do this, but you can't attach a motive to it, Would go out and randomly yank up a cow or elk or any other animal, do some mutilating work to it, or even medical experimental work, and then drop it to the ground?
	Is there any circumstance under which you could imagine the need for that?
	No.
	We're at a complete loss to explain why the government Does not, if it wants to experiment on animals, why it doesn't buy its own herd of animals, subject them to whatever stimulus they want to subject them to, and then... Or if they wanted Farmer X's animals, they could go to Farmer X and buy the animal if there was something special about Farmer X's animal.
	Yeah.
	Well, you know that the case, the cases around the Malmstrom Air Force Base in 1975, We're interesting because there was an unprecedented level of cooperation between the military base and the police, you know, the law enforcement, the sheriff's office.
	So there was like floods of phone calls going back and forth.
	And there were actually military, sometimes helicopters, were reporting dead animals to the Cascade County Sheriff's Department.
	So, we find that level of collegiality and cooperation pretty interesting, too, especially if you make the hypothesis that the military were involved in animal mutilations, because it doesn't seem to hold up in the case of Montana.
	We have testimony from people who were inside Malmstrom Air Force Base that they had no idea of who or what was flying around the Air Force Base.
	They had no idea of who was mutilating the animals.
	You have to remember, there's about 220 Minuteman III missiles located in that part of Montana.
	We have a map in the report that we published on our website showing that a small number of these missile sites were actually overflown repetitively.
	With either a UFO or what people report as helicopters.
	And we tend to lump in the UFO and the helicopters into the same category.
	Because... Causing what kind of reaction?
	Well, they actually overflew the missile launch facilities with no reaction.
	Not one of them were... You know, one would intuitively think that they would be intercepted.
	We have reports... One would really think that?
	Well, we would have thought that, but we have reports of F-106s being launched to intercept, but absolutely no contact was ever made with these UFOs.
	We have reports coming out of miles from Air Force Base on these police blotters that document the frustration of launching these fighters to intercept.
	And, um, coming up with nothing, and then when the fighters leave, the objects blink the lights back on.
	And, um, you know, multiple phone calls on a given night talking about these objects over various missile launch, um, silos.
	All right, hold it right there.
	We're at the bottom of the hour, so you've got to ask yourself, is it the military themselves, and is that why they don't launch all the time?
	Or is it our military?
	Which has determined there's actually nothing they can do about it.
	They never do catch one of these things, so there's no point wasting the jet fuel.
	Either way, you've got to admit, it would be a really, really, really big story.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 12, 2001.
	My love is alive, my love is alive She's the value that you gain in the air of the can
	She doesn't give you time for questions As she locks up your arms and hers
	And you follow to your sense of which direction Completely disappears
	By the blue tiled walls, near the market stalls At the hidden door she leads you to
	you These days, friends, I feel my life just like a whisper
	running through the air of the cabin ...
	Premier Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 12, 2001.
	My guest is Colm Culler.
	For me it's the National Institute for Discovery Science.
	And they do a lot of very important work.
	And we've got a phone number for you.
	You should take it down and keep it.
	And when the time comes, the right time, You should use it, because they have the resources, they have the people, they have the scientists to get out there, and they have the money to investigate it and do a good job.
	it's all there for you all you've got to have got to pick up the line
	Ah, saxophone.
	It kind of takes me to a whole different place.
	I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM back underway in a moment.
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	Looking for the truth?
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	Let's talk a little bit about the shadow government.
	Do you believe it's there?
	Yeah, we've heard that term, you know, for so many years and I thought it was this group in the Netherlands that sit behind smoked windows and make decisions like, you know, giant players of chess.
	But it isn't.
	We don't have the government anymore.
	What we have is a loose coalition of bureaucracies.
	But we have no representation in that government.
	So when I look at the Constitution, I see it as a really inspired and eternal document that has been sidestepped in almost every legal way possible.
	So the process itself has been intentionally manipulated to facilitate a certain style of government.
	And it's taken a while to set up.
	But I think it's set up now, and it's working just the way they like it.
	We need a systemic change.
	in order to let the republic be representative of the people again
	you're listening to art bell somewhere in time tonight featuring coast to coast
	a m from february twelfth two thousand one by the way on my website right now
	there's all kinds of news stuff at all kinds of reasons for you to go out there
	including the uh... the the the link
	needs And we'll give that number to you again, too, the hotline number for NIDS, if you have anything going on that you'd like to report without having your name dragged around.
	They'll do it.
	We all agree the speed of light is 186,000 miles per second.
	Anyone out there know what the speed of dark is?
	Somebody says, I submit to you that space travel will become commonplace once scientists realize the speed of dark is much more of an efficient way to travel than the minuscule speed of light.
	I don't know about that.
	Somebody writes and asks, recently it's been discussed in the media that these large triangular craft are actually blimps being used as mobile helicopter bases.
	They supposedly have helicopters on board in the port and starboard corners.
	Could you ask Column to comment?
	Well, we've heard those possibilities, and actually, we tried to do some research on whether or not one of these stealth blimps had been built and deployed.
	And we came across a company out in New Jersey called Aerion, Inc.
	And we talked to the CEO of Aerion for quite some time, and he said that there was small Aerion blimps developed in the 1970s and actually test flown, but unless somebody has actually broken the patent against his knowledge, these things were never deployed.
	The large blimps were never deployed.
	We know, for example, that money has gone to Lockheed to develop these kinds of heavy lifting blimps.
	We don't know yet if some black project has deployed these.
	We really have no idea.
	We know that the Aerion people have not made them, and we know they're in the developmental stages at Lockheed and elsewhere, and there's actually seed money from NASA looking at this, too.
	So, unless it's buried, we haven't been able to find it.
	We do know, however, that the performance characteristics that are pretty well repetitively reported to us are not consistent with a blimp type craft because we know extremely high speeds and accelerations are really not consistent with a blimp type structure.
	The other night we were doing a show on life after death and survival after death of the spirit or the consciousness.
	We had a call that rocked me back and I am not over it yet.
	It was from a young lady who works as an MRI technician.
	And for years now, she called me and she admitted, she said, you know, I see entities, not everywhere, but when I'm at work, I see entities.
	I wouldn't dare tell my co-workers what I see, but I see them.
	And I see them when the MRI machine is operating.
	And that blew me away I've got a bad back, terrible back, L4 and L5, and I've had an MRI, and I think I explained to the audience, when I have that MRI, you know, curious me, I go to the technician, I say, why don't you tell me about this machine?
	And so he opened up the front of the machine, he took a big steel bar, a big one, put it up against the machine, turned the machine on, and said, try to pull it off.
	And I tried.
	I tried as hard as I could.
	And there was no way to pull it off.
	The size of the electromagnetic field from an MRI machine is monstrous.
	Absolutely monstrous.
	And there are effects on humans and, you know, maybe others.
	I remember you telling me a story about the ranch.
	Right?
	You remember that story about an opening of some sort with something crawling out of it?
	Can you briefly retell that?
	Sure.
	Yeah, that happened a few years ago.
	Maybe a couple of years ago now.
	It was in August.
	It was a late summer and there were two investigators actually involved in this incident.
	They were monitoring this hot spot.
	We like to call it a hot spot because it's a very Small field, actually measuring maybe 100 yards by 50 yards, very small, that seems to have had a lot of phenomena over time.
	So there's a ridge overlooking this field, so it's a really good vantage point for taking infrared photographs and for using night vision equipment to try to track the phenomena that seem to be centered around this field for whatever reason.
	And the two investigators were up on the ridge overlooking this field and they were just packing up for the night actually.
	It was kind of like 2 a.m.
	and they saw a very very dull yellowish light down below them.
	Didn't take much notice of it at first as they were packing up and the light seemed to get more intense and it was Still a dull yellowish but it was expanding.
	Eventually it expanded to about 4 feet in diameter.
	They unpacked the equipment and one guy took out night vision binoculars and the other guy took out a camera with infrared film and started taking long exposure infrared photographs while the other guy was watching what was happening through the night vision binoculars.
	The guy with the binoculars started reporting that the four-foot diameter area of light seemed to be three-dimensional and he could see movement in the bottom of this three-dimensional hole or actually it was like a three-dimensional tunnel of light located about four feet above the ground so it was kind of like as if it was hovering in the ground and in this three-dimensional tunnel there was a movement And gradually a pair of shoulders, a head and arms were getting pretty obvious and he was getting pretty excited reporting it to this other guy who was taking photographs.
	Right.
	And this creature became obvious as it seemed to be literally pushing itself along this three-dimensional tunnel of light that was located about four feet above the ground.
	So the creature eventually maneuvered itself out of the tunnel, stood up, and then just vanished into the night.
	This was 2 AM.
	Remember folks, these are trained observers now, and this is on a ranch that was purchased by Bigelow because of all the odd things going on at the ranch.
	And so to observe something like this is incredible.
	They didn't happen to have any electromagnetic sensing gear with them, did they?
	Well, they did, actually, and they plucked up the courage after about ten minutes to go down to the exact spot, because in the meantime, after the creature had vanished into the night, this was about a six-foot creature, looked like totally black, had crawled out of this three-dimensional structure in the air.
	Immediately afterwards, it started collapsing in on itself.
	So, 10 minutes later, it was completely gone.
	The light was gone.
	Now, the guy who was taking the photographs could only see a dull, yellow, 4-foot diameter light, whereas the guy with the infrared night vision binoculars could see all of the action happening.
	So they went down, they used these portable detectors to look for electric fields, magnetic fields, Microwave radiation, radio waves, the electromagnetic, the usual cast of characters, nothing was registering except there was a very pungent odor of sulfur in the air.
	Sulfur?
	sulfurous type odor and that eventually dissipated but they looked for tracks, they looked for
	any physical evidence of what they had just seen and there was none except the smell.
	Well you know again going back to what this MRI tech told me, I don't know why it blew
	me away so except that I guess I remember back to the Philadelphia experiment descriptions
	of electromagnetics being used and electromagnetics are just sort of interesting because we don't
	fully understand what extremely strong electromagnetic fields do to the human body.
	Absolutely, I would agree with that.
	In the area up in the Uinta Basin, around the ranch, it's not only the ranch that has activity, but the entire area, we have documented 7 or 8 different times of transient Fluctuations on a handheld magnetic field detector.
	So there are transient back and forth fluctuations, strong fluctuations in magnetic field associated with these phenomena, but for whatever reason.
	And what we would love to be able to do is to start deploying much more sophisticated equipment And we know that, for example, that the government has multiple, multiple detectors arrayed all around the country that we're fairly sure must be picking up some either infrared, ultraviolet, visible light, or any of the magnetic field, electric field, or electromagnetic detectors.
	There's a lot of data we're pretty sure that's available.
	Well, we know in the area of the human base and magnetic fields have been detected and one of the things we were thinking of doing in the future is perhaps using that as a way of, kind of like your collar with the MRI, using a magnetic field detector or a generator so that perhaps You mean actually building something for that purpose?
	One could construct with pretty good engineering, one could construct a fairly sizable magnetic field generator.
	Obviously there would be safety concerns within the immediate area, but if it was fenced off It could produce some kind of a disturbance that would be detectable.
	Yes, you could create a controlled circumstance and you could have all kinds of monitoring from a distance.
	That's right.
	Of that.
	That's the kind of thing that we find it about because, you know, your caller with the MRI is kind of very intriguing there.
	Yes.
	Oh, very intriguing.
	Yeah.
	All right, well, any other cases since we last spoke that you'd like to elucidate?
	Well, yeah, we do have a case from last June, actually, late June, that was reported from Utah.
	And the reason that I'd like to talk about it a bit is because there was only a single eyewitness, and it seems difficult for us to believe that there was only a single eyewitness, because This object was like huge.
	The eyewitness described it as being the size of a small airport.
	A small airport.
	A small airport.
	We're used to getting comparisons with airplanes, but this is the first one where we got a comparison
	with an airport.
	Very briefly what happened was he noticed what seemed like the beginnings of a light
	show happening in the sky, and then he noticed that there seemed to be what he described
	as blobs of light that started coalescing together into this gigantic circular structure.
	It was like blobs of liquid mercury, you know, when you put them on a desk or something.
	Sure, I can picture that, sure.
	They rolled together.
	That's exactly how he described these This phenomenon that was coming together in the air, you know, hundreds of little objects coming together to form this large circular object and in the middle of this was what he described as a jasmine light that was flicking on and off and on and off.
	It was repetitively going on and off and each time it went on and off He heard this distinct buzzing sound about a second or two seconds afterwards, to the extent that after a couple of rounds of this, he noticed that it was the jasmine light seemed to be making the sound.
	So speed of sound traveling at 700 to 750 miles per hour, The interval being between one and two seconds, we were able to compute that this thing was not very far away from him.
	It was like maybe a couple of thousand feet.
	Okay.
	So an object the size of a small airport that was extremely brightly lit remained in the sky in Utah, in the area between Randlett and Roosevelt, Utah, for about 15 minutes.
	We would be very interested if any of your listeners, number one, have ever seen anything of that elk, and number two, if they were in the area in June of 2000.
	It's a long shot, but we figured it would be worth following up on because the way this object came together was different from a lot of the reports that we have got in the past.
	Usually what we get is Objects either vanishing or objects appearing suddenly, but this seemed to be like a sequence of events that resulted in this object appearing.
	You know, the average person, fellas, if they were to see something the size of an airport, probably, probably wouldn't report it.
	I mean, that's really a tough one to get somebody to swallow, the size of an airport in the sky.
	You might not talk about that.
	You might file that one away and think, well, maybe I won't talk about it.
	Yeah, and I think that's what we're kind of afraid of, because we have definitely put the word out to see if we can get other eyewitnesses, because it would be really good if we were able to triangulate different eyewitness descriptions of that object.
	Well, maybe somebody out there who's seen something as big as an airport up in Utah would be willing to call your number.
	If you'd like to report a floating airport, or for that matter, anything else, they have the resources it needs to investigate.
	All you've got to do is make the call.
	The trip back in time continues, with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	More, somewhere in time, coming up.
	Oh, rollin' and ridin' and slippin' and paddin', it's magic.
	A new and a future's at sight.
	You can breathe.
	Higher and higher, baby.
	It's a living thing.
	Oh, higher and higher, baby.
	It's a living thing.
	It's a better...
	Oh, I can't get him Nothing but a heart is never a thing Nothing but a heart is never a thing Nothing but a heart is
	Nothing but a heart ain't everything.
	never a thing Follow the way he's gonna feel Nothing but a heart is never
	All of the ways...
	I've understood.
	a thing He's got me, oh, why can't I get him?
	He's my key, oh, why can't I get him?
	Nothing but a heart ain't everything.
	Nothing but a heart is never a thing Nothing but a heart is never a thing
	Oh, I got a tear drop all over my way Nothing but a heart is never a thing
	All of the ways...
	I've understood.
	The way you feel, I just can't win him.
	He's got me, oh, why can't I get him?
	I've got a lot of those heartaches I've got a lot of those tear drops
	Heartaches, tear drops all over the way Nothing but a heart is never a thing
	Nothing but a heart is never a thing Nothing but a heart is never a thing
	He's got me, oh, why can't I get him?
	I've got a lot of those heartaches I've got a lot of those tear drops
	Somewhere in time.
	With Art Bell.
	Continues.
	Courtesy of Premier Networks.
	By the way, I did a good Spindolly little picture for you on the website, and I left that up there.
	I've got a quick fact I want to read you.
	We'll get back to Cullen in a moment.
	It says, Hi Art.
	After listening to your show tonight, I just can't hold back what I was told in October of 1995.
	This was told to me by an aeronautical engineer that worked for McDonnell Douglas in Mesa, Arizona.
	I asked if they believed in UFOs, and they said, well, they didn't know, but they didn't doubt that UFOs existed.
	They did tell me there may be things people might think are UFOs, but are not.
	I asked what they were.
	They stated they were black helicopters.
	I had, at that time, never heard of such a thing.
	They told me it was a black project, and that meant information Only came in, no information goes out.
	This terminology is what is derived from what we know as a black hole in space.
	He told me he couldn't tell me much about black helicopters other than they were black in color, a strange shape, fly fast, able to fly with no sound, and could change shape in mid-flight.
	Change shape in mid-flight.
	He also told me that they were used by the United Nations forces Made of a multinational force, and the ones based in Arizona were out of a secret U.N.
	base in northeastern Arizona.
	Most of the time, these black helicopters only flew at night.
	These black helicopters were being used to follow illegal drug traffic in Mexico, and flew there on a regular basis.
	I've kept quiet about this for a long time now, and I will not give my name for obvious reasons.
	I'd appreciate keeping myself anonymous, I'm only giving this to you to give some direction to look for future information and questioning.
	Sincerely, Signed, Anonymous.
	So, I don't know.
	Well for what it's worth though, there it is.
	But you know, you don't have to be nocturnal to enjoy this amazing show.
	The Coast Insider is your key to a normal life.
	For 15 cents a day, you can wake up refreshed knowing that last night's show is waiting for you with podcasting.
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	Visit coasttocoastam.com to sign up today.
	Back now to Colm Culloher, and Colm, here's a really kind of an interesting comment from Danny in Jacksonville, Arkansas, because of what we're talking about.
	Early Ray Palmer publications, I don't know him, like Fate, Search Forum, and Mystic, described arc welders, you know arc welders, as seeing apparitions.
	That's interesting, isn't it?
	That's definitely a new one on me.
	It's a new one on me too, but it just fits.
	Here's another one from John in Seattle who says, Colm mentioned cattle mutilations.
	Ask him about his knowledge, this is really a touchy one, of human mutilations.
	Somebody asked me that question quite a while ago, and we have never had a single report of human mutilations, even though I know there was a couple on the internet there in the last few months.
	We have never had a single report of human mutilations.
	You know, the cattle mutilation phenomenon continues.
	There's a lot of evidence to say that it's continuing, but humans, no.
	I would love to know the data and the sources for that data, but we just have had no reports.
	Well then, an obvious question is why cows?
	What would a cow... What do the scientists tell you, a problem that a cow would tell you?
	If you were to dissect it and test it, would you look for environmental changes?
	Would they unusually show up in a cow?
	Poisoning of the land?
	What might you glean from a cow?
	Well, one of the really classic Symptoms of animal mutilation is removal of one or both of the eyes.
	It's well known that the vitreous humor in the eye, the fluid in the eye of an animal is a very, very good indicator, accurate indicator of all of the metabolism and all of the additives that have been processed by that animal.
	Plus the effects on the reproductive organs, as the so-called germ cells, stem cells, all of those are tremendously susceptible to contaminants.
	But this goes back to the question in mutilations of, is this the government just monitoring, as many, many people have reported to us, that this seems to be the favorite theme.
	That even goes back to the 1970s, that the government are monitoring some unknown pathogen, be it radioactivity, downwind from the Nevada test sites, or some biohazards that are being produced up in Utah and the Dugway area.
	That's interesting.
	Would they unusually show up in cows?
	I would imagine they would.
	In other words, if there was some sort of radiation or something, Environmentally close by, the cows sitting there eating grass.
	Yeah, well, it's put forward as a way of monitoring over a very, very wide area how wind would disperse a given pathogen.
	But, you know, it's all speculation.
	But we have had these kinds of reports again and again and again, especially East of Dugway, that area up in Utah, west of Salt Lake City, where even law enforcement people talking about this continuous activity that was happening up in the area around Logan, for example, in the 1970s.
	Continuous black helicopter activity coming in from the west, coming in from the area around Dugway, and sampling of animals.
	But again, it's all still up in the air.
	We have never been able to nail it down for government operation.
	Same thing like I was talking about with the Milestorm Air Force Base incidents.
	All of these incidents happened within a 40 mile radius.
	67 separate mutilations happened within a 40 mile radius of Milestorm Air Force Base.
	We interviewed veterinarians who actually worked these cases pro bono for the law enforcement agencies up there, provided that their names weren't used and provided that they did not have to sign off on a report.
	They did this work pro bono.
	They went out into the field and did the pathology, and they found these animals, in several cases, were exsanguinated.
	In other words, they did their full necropsy, they looked in the abdominal cavity, they looked in the thoracic cavity, They looked everywhere for where blood should settle and there was no blood.
	No blood.
	One veterinarian told me on the telephone that he even went as far as squeezing the animal's heart and only one drop of blood came out of the heart.
	He said these animals, he had looked at a couple of them and another veterinarian had looked at a couple of them and these were all within a 40 mile radius of Maelstrom Air Force Base.
	In one of these cases they roll the animal over in order to conduct the full necropsy on the animal and underneath the animal there was a very large gauge metal syringe or needle.
	The kind of instrument that humans would use to attempt to exsanguinate an animal.
	So there is a tremendous level of confusion in the animal mutilation field.
	Oh yeah, you're confusing me.
	Yeah, we have this very strong statistical correlation now between the UFO helicopter activity and the mutilation phenomenon, but we also have this ongoing organized deception that has been happening, and we know it's been happening since the 1940s, where various groups Well, here's another way of looking at it.
	If we're talking about national security, what is national security?
	after purpose purposes cover including the intelligence agencies
	perhaps uh... perhaps of the way of of monitoring air force base readiness for
	example well here's another way of looking at it before talking
	about national security what is national security well
	if uh... unidentified aircraft are violating our airspace violating our cattle
	violating our citizens that would be a and and you know frequently for example
	over flying missile silos
	if all of that doesn't qualify as a real big national security issue than i don't
	properly understand national security i would completely agree and and
	we really saw that uh... on a really minute
	scale up and uh... up at malta airport space You know, the missile silos are coded according to these Greek letters, Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Bravo.
	Right.
	And, you know, on the logs from the police records that we looked at, you saw these reports, object over India 10, object over Bravo 4.
	And these objects were hovering sometimes for several minutes.
	They were obviously associated with the missile launch facilities, and if that doesn't constitute a very serious national security problem, we don't know what does.
	Now, we have the documentation from Alstom Air Force Base in October and November of 1975, And we know that there was simultaneous activity, incursions happening at Minot Air Force Base in North Dakota, at Loring Air Force Base in Maine, at Wurtsmith Air Force Base in Michigan, and then even one of the Canadian Air Force bases, Falcon Bridge in Ontario.
	We know over those two-month periods that there was multiple, multiple incursions right across the Northern Tier.
	We can't really put all of that down to activity by the intelligence agencies.
	It seems like a massive undertaking.
	There were some old stories, too.
	I wonder if NIDS ever looked into these.
	I think 2020 did a piece on some craft that hovered above some missile facilities, I think, in the Dakotas, if I remember correctly, and actually shut down a number of our ICBMs.
	Actually shut them down.
	That's right.
	Then there was a similar report in Russia.
	A little more worrisome because in this case the objects hovering for a long period of time above the silos initiated a countdown.
	Actually began a countdown to launch.
	And they ripped those consoles apart and never found anything wrong.
	So again, you know, it seems to me that would probably qualify as national security.
	Yeah, we know that I think that The one that you're referring to that I know about in the United States was the Maastricht Air Force Base missile shutdowns in 1967.
	Where, I believe it was March 1967, where up to ten separate missile locations were shut down.
	In other words, the alarms were going off, they were inoperative.
	There were two security guards called in to the launch control facility Which was located underground.
	They called in in a panic, saying that there was a large orange object out there.
	They didn't know what was going on.
	One security officer injured himself as he was clambering over a metal fence, getting away from this object.
	I believe they disobeyed orders.
	They essentially ran away from this object.
	Well, I understand this running thing.
	For example, going back to the ranch with the hole opening up four feet above the ground and something beginning to crawl out of it.
	I've got to give your observer a lot of credit because, you know, when it started crawling out, I'm not sure I could wait around and observe dispassionately.
	That was one of those things that we talked about for quite a while afterwards because They had no idea at the time what actually happened when this creature literally vanished into the night.
	It was like a black night, and one minute it was there, it was sort of illuminated by the three-dimensional tunnel, and the next minute it was gone into the night.
	They had no idea if it was climbing up the ridge after them.
	Of course not.
	No, so there was a kind of a deep silence for quite a while when they were listening to see what was...
	I was coming up to get them.
	Nothing happened.
	I mean, they never saw anything.
	But the interesting thing about that particular incident was that these dull yellow lights were very, very common.
	Very common.
	So around the area, not only around that particular ranch, but around the area in general, they were reported.
	But they were never really looked at as anything more than just kind of phenomena.
	But this was the first time that somebody had looked at them in the infrared region of the spectrum because the generation 3 night vision binoculars looks fairly far into the infrared spectrum.
	It looks into at least 3000 nanometers.
	So what was going on was obviously detectable in the infrared and not the visible region of the spectrum.
	So then, in a way, we could all think that a lot of these things are going on in our space, and by that I mean right here on Earth, all around us, and we might not even see them.
	Yeah, we think that's a possibility.
	There are other incidents, too, that have happened in that area, in Utah, where observers who have just seen without equipment, have not seen what observers with equipment have seen, and I'm talking about the night vision equipment, it's very useful for picking up phenomena that the visible part of the spectrum is not, it just is not accessible.
	Is there anything inherent in night vision, and I have some third Generation Night Vision stuff myself.
	Is there anything in Night Vision that would lend itself to misinterpretation of what you're seeing?
	Well, as you know then, the ITT, the Generation 3, is light enhancement.
	So you could, you know, you could make the, propose the idea that the light enhancement part of it might get mucked up, but if you see a very clear image Through the night vision, it's probably not the technology that's getting messed up.
	But then you could start asking questions.
	Going back to Jacques Vallée's whole hypothesis, are we talking psychology?
	Are we talking physical reality?
	Are we talking some kind of psychic interplay?
	That question is not answered by just looking down night vision binoculars.
	What's up with Jacques Ouellet?
	Say that again?
	What's up with Jacques Ouellet?
	Well, he's extremely busy.
	He's running a mainstream business, computer science and venture capital, and he's been doing that for quite a while.
	I know that Ned still has some relationship with him, right?
	Well, we see him as being an extremely valuable I mean, he's written so many books, but he is probably still, you know, one of the preeminent people in terms of field experience in the UFO phenomenon, because not only did he go through all of the, you know, the 1960s, 1970s, the Project Blue Book phase of the UFO phenomenon, but he's continued all through the 80s.
	He's traveled all over the world.
	You know, he's done field research in Brazil, he's done field research in the Soviet, what used to be the Soviet Union, United States and Europe.
	So, you would be really hard-pressed to find somebody who is more experienced in field research and also intellectually capable.
	In an exceptional situation, are you able to call on him?
	In terms of advice, yeah, we are.
	And it's a real bonus, to put it mildly, because I think the level of creativity is extraordinary.
	Alright, when we return from the break, I'd like to talk a little bit about what NIDS wants to be doing 2001 and going forth.
	Yeah, we've got some interesting possibilities.
	All right, stay right there.
	We'll be right back.
	We're going to break here.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 12th, 2001.
	I woke up this morning, baby, and I'm in the middle of the road.
	I can't you hold my mind.
	I woke up this morning, baby.
	You know that I felt so fine.
	You know I need you.
	You know that I love you.
	This is my pledge of love to you.
	My pledge of love.
	My prayers to love, darling, darling, darling To you, yeah, to you, yeah
	I woke up this morning, baby I had you on my mind
	I felt so much love this morning So just...
	Mmm...
	Mississippi, in the middle of a dry spell Jimmy Rogers on the lift roll up high
	Mama's dancing, baby, on her shoulders The sun is cutting like molasses in the sky
	What is happening is what is happening Everything, always wanting more
	Keeping you longing for Black velvet, that lady boy smile
	Black velvet, we're like a slow summer's dial A new religion, they'll bring her to me
	Black velvet, you see I remember the music like a heat wave
	White lightning, bound to guide you home You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from February 12, 2001.
	We've got one more segment to do with Colm Killeher, then we're going to do an hour of predictions, and that will close out predictions for the year.
	Done a little late, but better late than never.
	So that will be one hour following this segment coming up immediately.
	Coast to coast AM sure sounds great in the middle of the night.
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	Coast to Coast AM.
	It's way out there.
	These groups of extraterrestrials that are unfriendly, many of which are hiding down there at the bottom of the ocean, why don't they want us to know about this?
	We've lost people in wars with UFOs.
	You know, we spend a lot of time honoring our heroes, and we have heroes that we don't know about.
	It's disturbing to that extent because we have a debt to people who've defended us, and we'll never know who they are.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 12th, 2001.
	We are as close as your computer.
	If you'll check on my website at www.artbellrightnow, you will see there All kinds of new stuff.
	And so all you do is go and click on what's new and you'll see this.
	Well, you may see a creature that humans have not seen before.
	This skunk ape we've got photographs of that Lauren Coleman, the cryptozoologist, commented on in the first hour of the program tonight.
	He thinks it may be the real thing, folks.
	So you might want to take a look at that.
	And many, many other new items.
	And of course, if you're interested in reading more about NIDS that we've been hearing about this evening, you can do that as well.
	There is a link to the NIDS website.
	Let's go to the guest info for tonight.
	You'll see the link there to NIDS.
	And remember, if you have something hot going on, they've got the resources to do something about it, to investigate it.
	A real scientific investigation.
	And your name doesn't get dragged through the newspapers or anywhere else.
	You can depend on them.
	Welcome back.
	Thank you.
	So we were going to, I guess, touch on one brief question.
	From Nick in Los Angeles.
	And it is, what help or information do you receive from NASA?
	And anything at all from NASA?
	Well, actually, what we get is we get cases referred from NASA.
	Oh, you do?
	Yes.
	You know, if somebody calls NASA out of the blue looking for some aspect of UFO information, NASA, through the Science Advisory Board that we have, who are connected, many of them are connected with NASA, contact NEDS.
	So we do get referrals, but we don't get any beyond that.
	And, of course, our physicist, Derek Davis, has been associated with the NASA Breakthrough Propulsion Initiative for quite a while, as is Hal Puthoff, who is the chairman of our Science Advisory Board.
	He's on the NASA Breakthrough Propulsion Workshops.
	So there's a very high interest in the relationship between the physics of UFOs, the engineering that is going into UFOs, and the breakthrough propulsion.
	Obviously, it's not talked about in those terms at the NASA meetings, but it's definitely a high level of interest there.
	Well, it's good to know you've got that connection.
	Listen, one more.
	Kevin in Phoenix writes, Fast Blast, I work in a sleep laboratory and use infrared cameras to monitor patients.
	And I have a video of a ball of energy hovering over a patient that I was observing.
	Has Colm ever heard of this sort of thing before?
	Well, we would like to have a copy of that video.
	I bet you would.
	If it's available at all, because that's the kind of thing we would be able to look at in more depth.
	That's exactly the kind of call you want to get.
	Yeah, we do video analysis.
	We do have that capability, and if it's through infrared, if there was a simultaneous visible video available, it would be excellent, especially if there was a difference.
	But even the infrared video, I think we would really like to see.
	It does harken back to the same topic that I was talking about earlier.
	In other words, beyond the narrow range of the visible spectrum, we speculate now, after several different events, that there is activity happening that we don't see.
	Well, you know, that makes a lot of sense, Colin.
	Even the SETI group has now decided to stop looking so much for radio signals and begin looking at other spectrums.
	Optical SETI?
	Yeah.
	That's right.
	That's right, yeah.
	I think that's a pretty sensible notion, that the idea that there's a technology out there that is just transmitting radio waves It's the kind of thinking that was okay in the 50s, in the 1950s, but I think the optical study is a big leap forward.
	Yeah, a lot of aspects of science tend to move sort of together, don't they?
	Yeah, they definitely do.
	And you know, speaking of the NASA connection, you know, the space lab that's up there right now?
	Yes.
	A lot of these experiments are focused on the commercial applications of microgravity manufacturing.
	Which is obviously a very big interest for Robert Bigelow because he, in the last 18 months, has launched Bigelow Aerospace.
	I was about to mention Bigelow Aerospace.
	Yeah, and one of the main views of Bigelow Aerospace is to look at the commercial possibilities of space stations in orbit that are manufacturing pharmaceuticals, manufacturing A whole range of items under zero-G conditions.
	Bob is also interested, though, in getting a launch vehicle that would allow citizens to actually go to space.
	That's right.
	And the platforms for commercial exploitation would be Phase 1, and then Phase 2, with exactly what you just said, is the cruisers that would go from the near-Earth orbit to the Moon and back.
	On a five day trip because, you know, one of the things that Robert Bigelow has been floating, you know, as a think piece for the future, you know, for 2001 is to examine the possibility that one of the reasons for extremely high performance of UFOs is that the UFOs themselves are manufactured at zero G. In other words, we as a race on planet Earth are now reaching The ability to manufacture off-world.
	You know, there's a lot of data, or some data at least, to suggest that at least some of the properties of items that are manufactured in zero-g are very different from those manufactured terrestrially.
	Maybe you can pass on something to Bob for me.
	Yeah.
	Do you remember the movie Contact?
	Yes.
	You do, good.
	Do you remember I think it was pretty much toward the end of the movie when Jodie Foster thought she'd had it and she wasn't going to be able to take the machine ride.
	And the billionaire from the space station, Mir, issued that famous line at the end, Remember that?
	You tell Bob, that's how I think of Bob.
	I'll certainly pass that on, yeah.
	I'd say that would really tickle him.
	It might tickle him, I don't know.
	You never know.
	But in all the contacts I've had with Bob, I've always had that sort of lingering feeling.
	Anyway, listen, what's NIDS going to be doing from here forward?
	Where is the research headed?
	Well, you know, mostly we're going to be accelerating what we've been doing already, looking for patterns.
	I don't know if you've had anybody on your show in the past talking about local sidereal time?
	No.
	What is that?
	It's a fairly big analysis that was recently done on one of the bigger databases of the UFOs, which now has about 130,000 cases.
	A pattern emerged that UFO activity, and particularly close encounters of the fourth kind, which is abductions, are closely correlated with what's called local sidereal time at 1300 hours, and that is the relationship of Earth as it rotates with the stars, rather than the relationship of Earth as it rotates with the sun, which is the standard day.
	There's a correlation between a specific slice of the sky being exposed and a higher incidence of abduction or close encounters.
	Really?
	Now that is very, very interesting from a number of points of view, but primarily because in 1997 a guy called James Spotterswood found exactly the same kind of correlation for remote viewing.
	For anomalous cognition, you know, the kind of high-level human performance, exactly the same local sidereal time.
	So you could make the, put out the hypothesis that for a specific slice of sky for a given observer on planet Earth being exposed, something is modulating the ability either to remote view or to have anomalous cognition.
	Or to experience close encounter of the four kind or even certain types of UFO phenomenon.
	So that's the possibility of either a signal or the absence of a signal or something that's modulating coming from a specific direction.
	When certain stars or the star field is in a certain position with respect to Earth, it's when these things are happening.
	Can you tell me by What percentage, or how heavily it's adjusted in the research?
	Well, you know, the statistics in both cases have been done on enormously high numbers.
	I mean, the KUFA database is 130,000, as I mentioned.
	And the guy who did this is actually Dr. John Johnson.
	And he's found that the correlations are pretty strong.
	You know, that he's grasped them out, actually.
	I believe he's submitting a paper on this, but I'm not sure if he's actually submitted it yet, but it's the first, to my knowledge at least, it's the first obvious pattern that has leapt out of this.
	I've never even thought of, I've never even considered it until you mentioned it, but now all of a sudden it makes all kinds of sense.
	Yeah, and the idea that, for example, you just spoke about SETI, you know, you could speculate a lot on this whole topic, The idea that SETI might think of lining up some minor detectors along this kind of meridian, this slice of sky, or even other types of detectors.
	It's really intriguing to us, for the future, that this pattern is left out, and that the exact same pattern has already been shown for anomalous cognition and remote viewing.
	In other words, it's more than coincidence.
	So, we think we'd like to have a look at what that means.
	That's one of the future topics.
	Another one of interest is we want to look at the possibility sometime in the coming year of approaching a modified version of Congressional hearings.
	Oh?
	Congressional hearings with what being the subject?
	That's precisely it.
	We think that the best possible subjects right now would be to focus both on air safety and on national security.
	In other words, not focus on the traditional, you know, governments need to tell all about what's been happening, but you're probably aware of Richard Haynes and Ted Roseney's organization, NARCAP, which is focused on the airline pilots and military pilots, air safety.
	He has published a tremendous compilation of about a hundred different cases where the suggestion is that air safety has been compromised and we think that's a really viable way to approach the UFO question.
	Well, it is.
	In other words, if you go to a senator or a congressman and you say, look, we'd like an investigation of UFOs.
	Right.
	You know, call me next Thursday is the kind of thing you'll get or next year or never.
	But if you talk about national security, there's something they can glom onto.
	Yeah, the two topics are really something that you could hang your hat on, exactly what you just said.
	It's something tangible.
	And you know, over the last few years, we have had interest expressed from both Congress people and Senators, but none of the people involved are willing to take the politically Suicidal step of jumping up and saying, we need to hold hearings on government secrecy.
	But looking at it from the perspective of air safety, which is an international concern, not only a concern to the FAA, but a concern internationally, we could even look to the future of joining up with other countries.
	For example, in South America, there are There are issues of air safety also.
	Oh, listen, the stories from Mexico City are incredible.
	I mean, collisions with airliners.
	Right.
	That's exactly right.
	And there are other indications that even in Chile, for example, that there were some reports a decade or so ago of the same kind of thing.
	The national security issue we touched on a bit with this Milestorm Air Force Base incident, but there are multiple others.
	And I should also mention that all of these Air Force bases that had incursions, they were independently verified using many, many groups used FOIA to extract All of the documents that verified that incursions had happened, that the chain of command was quite worried about what was happening in 1975.
	In other words, questions were going up the chain of command.
	So it wasn't only Malta Air Force Base, it was right across the northern tier.
	But it is not as though they have not looked at this before.
	You remember the conclusion of Project Blue Book essentially said, whatever these things are, We have concluded they are not a threat to national security.
	Right.
	Right.
	And that's how they ended that.
	Well, you know, it's an interesting story that the Project Blue Book, we just got hold of the unpublished manuscript from Lieutenant Colonel Hector Quintanilla, who was, as you know, was head of Project Blue Book between 1963 and 1969.
	And 1969 is when it terminated, so he was there for the final six years of Project Blue
	Book.
	Yes.
	Now what this manuscript essentially says is that Project Blue Book was an entirely
	debunking exercise.
	So in his own words...
	He admits that?
	He's actually...
	Well, he doesn't say Project Blue Book was a debunking exercise.
	All he writes is, I'm a debunker, and this is how I dealt with all of the cases that
	were coming in to me.
	It's a tremendously entertaining manuscript.
	Actually, it's published as an e-book on our website, but in Lt.
	Col.
	Quintanilla's own words, he essentially really undermines the idea of objectivity with the Air Force Project Blue Book.
	It was written, this manuscript was written in 1975.
	It's never been published.
	And NED obtained a copy through the family who were interested in airing it.
	And it's a very, very interesting compilation.
	That's amazing.
	I had no idea.
	And you actually have that on the website?
	It went up on the website about a week ago.
	No kidding.
	It's free to download.
	The entire book, it's like 130 pages.
	And it's free?
	Yeah, it's free to download.
	Oh my.
	Alright, you can download it.
	You can get to the NIDS website, folks, right at my website.
	Just go to the guest, and the website is right there.
	You can jump over to it right now, and then bookmark it as you wish.
	Gollum, wonderful as always having you here.
	I want to do it again, and when you start building that great big electromagnet, I want to be involved.
	Yeah, well, you just give us a call and bring your magnet.
	I'll do it.
	Good night, my friend.
	Yes, thank you.
	From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.

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