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Feb. 6, 2001 - Art Bell

02:46:55

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Michio Kaku - Theoretical Physics

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	North all the way to the pole, South into South America, and more or less worldwide on the Internet.
	This is Coast to Coast AM, and I'm Art Bell.
	Good morning!
	Second day back.
	Great to be here.
	New affiliates joining tonight.
	St.
	Louis, you've been waiting for this, I know.
	How about KFTK?
	That's KFTK in St.
	Louis, Missouri.
	97.1 MHz.
	FM.
	100,000 watts, so it ought to be heard from here to Kalamazoo.
	Certainly you should have no problem with it in St.
	Louis.
	That's KFTK, 97.1, 100,000 watts.
	That's a big electrical bill, I'll tell you.
	WJBO in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, 1150 on the dial, welcome.
	WQBC in Vicksburg, Mississippi, welcome.
	And WFRC in Athens, Georgia, welcome.
	All brand new and with us tonight on top of the I don't know what it was, 14, uh, that we did last night, so.
	Welcome in, everybody.
	On the second hour tonight, uh, one of our nation's premier physicists, theoretical physicist, Dr. Michio Kaku.
	He's a real heavyweight.
	Uh, you're going to enjoy that.
	In the meantime, we'll just sort of, uh, fiddle around a little bit.
	Uh, we, I got about, I'm, I'm getting in the order of three or four thousand emails a day.
	So I'm trying to make it through the emails.
	I'm trying.
	I'll do the best I can.
	No promises.
	But a lot of them said the following.
	Art, the fifth hour is missing from your first show.
	Is this going to be temporary or what?
	I can only listen during the day and it kills me to miss the final hour.
	The new fifth hour.
	Well, there were certain messages encoded in the fifth hour that we couldn't repeat.
	That would be one explanation.
	The real explanation is that, you know, the timers were only set to record the first four hours because somebody along the line forgot the program is now a five-hour show.
	So, we have sent messages.
	How long they will take to sink in, I don't know.
	Maybe we'll get lucky tonight.
	Looking around the world a little bit with security officers keeping news media at bay, the former Vice President Al Gore, Delivered a lecture at Columbia.
	He said it was off the record and just teaching and don't ask any political kind of questions.
	Ariel Sharon, the tough-talking former general dubbed the Bulldozer.
	The Bulldozer, that's a name to have.
	Has won handily in Israel.
	We'll see what happens.
	President Bush is telling the nation's four largest airlines workers today that they should avoid strikes because If they don't, if they don't settle differences... Well, he's keeping all options open.
	I'm not sure what that means.
	Who else would fly the planes?
	Happy birthday, Ronald Reagan 90.
	And he's had a pretty tough way to go.
	There is some worrisome health news on a couple of points here.
	We have possibly the first case of, brace yourself, Ebola in the Northern Hemisphere.
	Health officials are working to determine if a woman who traveled from Africa and is now being hospitalized in Canada is suffering from Ebola hemorrhagic fever in what would be the first known case in North America.
	Health Canada, the nation's health department, Confirmed laboratory in Winnipeg have received blood samples from the woman.
	The hospital where she's being treated is being, uh, is testing now for viral hemorrhagic fevers, including Ebola.
	A severe, often fatal disease.
	Actually, Ebola, generally, if you catch it, you can count to ten.
	You've got about ten days to live, and then you die.
	I received a fax today from Dr. Lorraine Day.
	And this is kind of worrisome.
	Says all the nice things at the beginning, great to have you back at home, so forth and so on.
	But here's what she says.
	She's talking about appearing as a guest and probably will have her.
	But listen to this.
	She said, Art, there's another big cover-up going on and that's the mad cow epidemic and its related forms in pigs, sheep, chicken, And so forth, which will, she says, now get this, make AIDS seem like a day at the beach.
	Yes, an epidemic that is sweeping around the world, her words, and will cause unprecedented death and devastation.
	It's in this country right now, even though the authorities are denying it, as they always do.
	Now more than ever, people need to understand there is a way to avoid this dreaded, fatal disease But it's not just in the food chain.
	It's in gelatin capsules, in fillers in processed foods, cosmetics, and in gelatin as a binder in supplemental pills.
	That's some rough stuff, if true, from Lorraine Day.
	And so, I think I'll get hold of Dr. Day and we'll find out what she's talking about.
	Yikes!
	An Australian, this is from Newsmax.com, an Australian inventor has come up with a gun, a gun that can fire 180 rounds in a hundredth of a second.
	Or, if you wish, an impossible million rounds a minute!
	So fast that a bullet enters the barrel before the preceding one has even left the muzzle.
	Well, this one gets in the hands of gang members, huh?
	Incredibly, storekeeper James Michael O'Dwyer's gun has no moving parts, and operates entirely on electrical impulses.
	Great, we need this gun.
	Despite the fact that O'Dwyer's invention has vast and even dizzying implications, as, for example, an awesome military weapon, or a street sweeper, I had just added, when he approached the Australian defence officials in 1994 with the idea they turned a deaf ear, And when he showed the gun to former U.S.
	Special Forces Chief Wayne Downing, the General said O'Dwyer was certifiably crazy.
	No longer true now.
	The General is now a member of the Board of Directors of, get this, Metal Storm Limited.
	O'Dwyer's new company is calling it Metal Storm Limited.
	Well, that'd be a metal storm, alright, wouldn't it?
	180 rounds in a hundredth of a second.
	Or an impossible one million rounds a minute.
	Now that's just got to have applications.
	You know that's got to have applications.
	Probably not ones that you want to know about.
	It's amazing that charges are set off when electrical contacts spark them in precisely timed electronic sequence, much the way an inkjet printer sprays ink.
	So yeah, we sure want to see this one in the hands of, uh...
	Some street people.
	Holy mackerel!
	And I'm sure you've heard about this.
	This news broke, oh, I don't know, a week or two ago.
	But it sure is interesting.
	Moscow.
	An airport in southern Siberia was shut down for an hour and a half on one last Friday when an unidentified flying object was detected hovering above its runway.
	All according to the Interfax News Agency.
	The crew of an Ilyushin-76 cargo aircraft refused to take off, claiming They saw a luminescent object hovering above the runway of the Siberia's Barnaul Airport.
	Local aviation company director Ivan Kosmarov was quoted as saying, the crew of yet another cargo plane, refusing to use the runway for the same reason, landed their jet at another airport.
	The UFO finally took off and vanished from the airport 90 minutes later.
	Well, somebody out there ought to have some really good pictures, wouldn't you think?
	We'll be right back.
	Still looking for new little replacements for this, but this one is not bad.
	All right, listen, uh, Ginger.
	I've got an interesting piece of information here on Ginger, and I'm not saying that this is Ginger, but it might be.
	This person claims to be very close, in fact part of the investment group behind Ginger.
	You never know about that.
	But this person anonymously, of course, says it stands for Inductance Transportation Vehicle.
	A neat mobile little gadget that may eliminate the need for cars in the future.
	Ah, air car, maybe, hmm?
	He goes on, however, if there are a large number of vehicles operating in the same area, it does require magnetic tracks to be installed to prevent the possibility of, get this, collisions or magnetic interference with other it's.
	In other words, if you're zipping along in your it, and another it zips along, and your two magnetic fields become entangled, Your it, or the other guy's it, or both its, could plunge... Well, you get the picture.
	The breakthrough technology, it goes on, that runs the it is GINGER.
	GINGER.
	The Geomagnetic Inductance Neutralizing Gasoline Engine Replacement.
	This clean, quiet, inexpensive engine will be the real moneymaker.
	Whether it becomes popular or not, It could be used extensively in defense, shipping, and many other industries.
	This should answer a few of the questions about Ginger slash It.
	Although, It will probably generate many more.
	They should all be answered next year when DK makes the official announcement.
	Regards, he signs it anonymously as Ginger Guy.
	But you know that sounds pretty good, doesn't it?
	You think that's it?
	I have no idea.
	Now, there is a good friend of mine here in Pahrump, Nevada named Paul Bowman.
	In fact, really what I ought to do is give you his email address after I do this.
	He's got the cutest little daughter, and her name is Maggie.
	Maggie defines cute as when I... I think she's got a three-year-old now.
	And she literally does define cute.
	And she made a few liners for me.
	You know, Ross Mitchell.
	Like Ross Mitchell, only not quite exactly like Ross Mitchell.
	I mean, Maggie's only three.
	So she made a few liners, and I thought I would try them out on you and see what you think.
	And by the way, I think if you go to the website right now, we've got a link to Maggie's photograph.
	I put Maggie's photograph up there, oh, I don't know, last spring.
	And...
	I thought you might enjoy the voice of Maggie.
	She tried really hard and some of it is a riot.
	But here's Maggie.
	That was attempt number one.
	Here's number two.
	AM with all bells.
	That was attempt number one.
	Here's number two.
	This is Maggie from the King of the Nine.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with all bells.
	I particularly like the, this is Maggie.
	Here's another.
	From the King of the Nine!
	This is Maggie!
	Up there!
	And now, uh, I think this one coming up is my favorite.
	It's kinda like... She does it and then she runs out of things to say, so finally in the very end, she says, This is Maggie!
	Which she has down quite well.
	But, listen carefully, uh, to...
	Listen carefully to this one.
	Very carefully.
	King of a nine.
	From the king of a nine.
	Coast to coast.
	This is coast to coast.
	I am with Art Bell.
	From the desert of the sea.
	This is Art Bell.
	Desert of the sea.
	This is Maggie.
	From the desert of the sea.
	I've got to remember that line.
	Pass it on to Ross to do.
	From the desert of the sea.
	There's something that I'm going to ask Dr. Kaku about.
	What do you think?
	Should I give out Paul's address?
	Yeah, you can always get another one.
	If you have comments on Paul's little girl Maggie, just cue her in a button.
	You can reach him at Paul.
	That's P-A-U-L, Paul, at 2330.com.
	Doing you a big favor here, Paul.
	That's Paul, P-A-U-L, at 2330, 2330.com.
	Good luck, Paul.
	A group of astronomers has come up with a plan they claim will save life on Earth from an early demise.
	That's serious.
	Their deadline is about three and one half billion years in the future.
	At that time, the scientists say, our sun, get this, will be 40% brighter than it is today.
	Now, that's very bad.
	And the Earth, they go on, will be much too hot to sustain life.
	Too hot.
	Now, you gotta bear in mind that where I am here near Death Valley, we go to, oh, I don't know, 110, 113, 115 degrees, sometimes, in the summer.
	If you were to add 40% to that, we'd be toast.
	Big time.
	They say even looking just a billion years down the road, the increased brightness of the sun would cause a, quote, moist greenhouse effect, which will have a catastrophic impact on the planet.
	However, say they, what if we could move the Earth farther away from the Sun before it gets too hot?
	So researchers at NASA and Fred Adams of the University of Michigan say the idea of changing the Earth's orbit is almost alarmingly feasible, but how would we do it?
	Scientist's theory is outlined in a paper entitled Astronomical Engineering, a strategy for modifying planetary orbit.
	The paper has been accepted for publication in the Journal of Astrophysics and Space Science, so it's very serious.
	The researcher's theory is a twist on the gravity assist technique used to send spacecraft to the outer planets.
	They say that by shooting a large object, like an asteroid about 62 miles across, past the Earth, the planet could gradually be pulled away from the Sun.
	And they would change our orbit.
	Now that's pretty neat stuff, huh?
	Alright, well listen, I'm gonna take some calls in the balance of this hour, and whatever you would like to say is fair game.
	But again, I remind you as yesterday, while I don't like goodbyes, I don't like hellos, so...
	I very much appreciate all the... I've got thousands of hellos.
	I mean, so many in my email, I can't possibly deal with them.
	And while I would appreciate your saying hi and welcome back and all that, just assume that I've heard you say it mentally, because I have thousands of you, millions.
	So thank you, and let us take some phone calls.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Reba calling from Colville.
	I'm on KCVL radio.
	That's the station I'm listening to.
	How you doing, Reba?
	Listen, I'm calling in because today I usually listen to Rolling Thunder Radio, which is a very controversial station, and Mr. Harrington came on the air and said that Rolling Thunder Radio would no longer be on the air.
	Oh, no!
	Not that I've ever heard of it, mind you, but what was, past tense, Rolling Thunder?
	Well, Rolling Thunder was very controversial and was not afraid to take our politicians to task.
	In fact, KGA Radio is one that Mike had been on.
	Spokane?
	Yes, and I'm sure hoping he is listening, so he will get back there to them, and especially with the events taking place right now.
	And also, I called in to the predictions on New Year's Eve, and I wished you guys a very, very Happy New Year.
	But, you know, I really wanted to know What kind of a hat Ramona was wearing was one thing.
	And also... She's in the next room.
	She may come tell me.
	I don't know.
	I hope so.
	And I hope she wears it on Friday night.
	And also, I had a request.
	Okay.
	Shirley MacLaine would sure like to have you interview her.
	And I would like to know about her collecting seeds.
	Did Shirley say that?
	Yes, more or less, when she was on the air with Mike Siegel.
	I see.
	And she hinted around, more or less, but yes, she was always hoping that you would call her and have an interview.
	Well, maybe I will.
	Hey, you know who I'm going to have on at the end of the month who's agreed to be on with me?
	Who?
	Dan Aykroyd.
	Wonderful!
	Dan had a very, very serious UFO sighting himself.
	Well, we have them up here all the time.
	It's nothing new up here.
	Well, it's really nothing new anywhere.
	As I said yesterday, every three seconds we get a new UFO sighting somewhere in the world.
	Three seconds.
	Uh-huh.
	So, uh, sure.
	I'd love to have Shirley up.
	Well, that, you know, it's something... She's been doing this for a long time.
	And she's never discussed it.
	And I haven't seen it in any of her books.
	But she's been cataloging these seeds and preserving them.
	And I'd certainly like to know more about it.
	All right.
	Done deal.
	I'll see what I can do.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	Take care.
	Bye-bye.
	Bye-bye.
	All right.
	Headed toward the bottom of the hour.
	Can you imagine that?
	They actually want to move Earth out of its present order.
	I wonder how far they would have to move Earth to get away from the heat.
	40% brighter.
	So would we have to be 40% farther away from the sun?
	So would we have to be 40% farther away from the sun? Lots of questions for Dr. Kaku.
	That's not exactly like going and getting a U-Haul-it.
	I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	stay right where you are.
	I'm not going to let you go.
	I'm not going to let you go.
	It's too hard to fly They've been so hard to find.
	I tried to wait for you, but you have closed your mind.
	Whatever happened to our love?
	I wish I understood Did you pay so nice?
	Did you pay so good?
	Now when you need me darling Can you hear me?
	Answer me The love you gave me darling
	Can you hear me?
	Answer me When you're gone, I'll be lying by your door
	When you're gone, so I go I'll be gone until you're home
	Wanna take a ride?
	Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 180- Take a ride? Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies
	at 1-800-3-4.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First-time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	825-5033. First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295. And to reach out on the toll free
	international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903. This is Coast to
	Coast AM with Art Fell on the Premier Radio Networks.
	King of the night.
	From the king of the night.
	Coast to Coast.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Arthel.
	From the desert of the sea?
	This is awesome!
	This is Maggie.
	That's Maggie.
	And if you want to see Maggie, right now on the What's New portion of our website, you'll see Maggie the Liner Girl.
	And when you go there, just click on the picture and you'll get the big version and you'll see a levitating Maggie.
	And if you have comments on Maggie, A lot of you are obviously in an emailing mood, so fire off an email to Maggie's dad.
	That would be Paul.
	That's P-A-U-L.
	Paul at 2330.com.
	Paul at 2330.com is his email address.
	Probably not for long, but...
	It's the...
	West of the Rockies, call toll free 1-800-618-8255.
	Well, just one more brief little thing...
	You're gonna love this.
	Scientists have succeeded in growing sperm in a laboratory for the first time, paving the way for infertile men to produce their own genetic offspring.
	The team from the Mishita District of Tokyo also believes they'll be able to reprogram male cells into producing eggs so that men can both father and mother children.
	This could allow gay men to be parents together.
	At the moment, the technique which clones embryo cells and turns them into sperm has been attempted only with mice.
	But now it's men.
	So that men can be pregnant.
	You know, I used to joke about that.
	What if men could be pregnant?
	And it figures, in my lifetime, it's going to be possible.
	East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	Yes, turn your radio down.
	Off, actually.
	Off.
	All the way off.
	How are you doing?
	I'm doing all right.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Bonne Terre, Missouri.
	All right.
	Welcome.
	How are you doing?
	I just wanted to ask you, do you have anybody coming up anytime soon talking about the Yeah, the new stuff that they're... Well, it's not new, but the stuff like the Holy Blood, Holy Grail guys?
	Like, uh... Michael Bayesian?
	Michael Bayesian.
	Uh, well, I'll look into it if that's something that interests you.
	Oh, definitely.
	Or maybe Graham Hancock again anytime soon?
	Oh, I'd love to have Graham on again.
	Yeah.
	Sure.
	Yes, definitely.
	Uh-huh.
	Or Steven Sora.
	All right.
	What do you think about the Holy Grail?
	What do I think about?
	Yes.
	I kind of agree with what Michael Bayesian says.
	Which is what, basically?
	That Christ was probably not crucified and that, well, or if he was, that Mary Magdalene may have been his wife and that she'd traveled to France.
	Boy, that sure is a different story, huh?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, they sure got it wrong somehow.
	I mean, how could they get it that wrong?
	I think the Catholic Church probably suppresses quite a bit of it.
	Oh, the Catholic Church.
	Yeah.
	The Catholic Church always does it.
	All right, I'll look into it.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	I guess maybe it's just been so ingrained into me that I kind of think that's how it happened, but you never know.
	Those are the Rockies.
	You're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	Hello.
	How are you?
	I'm okay.
	Great.
	I can finally, like, What about Gloria Gaynor's I Will Survive?
	I have that song.
	You were looking for a song to be an intro song or something.
	What about Gloria Gaynor's How Does It Go?
	I Will Survive?
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	I have that.
	I love it.
	Oh, I have that song.
	It's part of my vast collection of potential bumper music.
	I know.
	I just love all your bumper music.
	It's great.
	Sometimes I just go to your website so I can hear your bumper music.
	Well, listen, I'm just so glad you're back, but I know we're not supposed to say it.
	That's right.
	So you have now set it for everybody for the rest of the hour.
	I know.
	Okay.
	Well, I'll talk to you later.
	All right.
	Take care.
	Yeah, sure.
	I have that one.
	Of course I do.
	Here's to the Rockies.
	You're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hey, Arville.
	How you doing?
	I'm doing okay.
	Speak up good and loud.
	Okay.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Georgia.
	Warner Robins.
	Warner Robins, Georgia.
	Okay.
	What's on your mind?
	Um, yeah, um, well, by the way, my name is Tiberius.
	Tiberius.
	That's a very old Roman-like gladiator sort of name.
	Yeah, I was, you know, reincarnated.
	That's it.
	I'm sure you were ripped apart by a lion at some earlier point.
	But no, I just had a, you know, like a question or comment that I wanted you to ask.
	I mean, just possibility.
	Um, you know, um, um, like, um, with all the UFO sightings that goes on, you know, I'm not talking about, you know, like, like, let's say if one just pop up and then I happen to see it, but I'm like saying, like, let's say, like, um, if there's a possibility that it was in the area earlier, um, just say, like, somebody, maybe somebody would, You're confusing me.
	I'm not sure what you're saying.
	All right.
	Have you been abducted?
	Have I been abducted?
	Yes.
	Have you?
	No, but... Have any of your friends been abducted?
	No, sir.
	Family?
	a lot of these sightings like could there be anybody in the neighborhood experiencing
	abduction or something like that?
	You're confusing me, I'm not sure what you're saying.
	Alright.
	Have you been abducted?
	Have I been abducted?
	Yes, have you?
	Um, no, but...
	Have any of your friends been abducted?
	Um, no sir.
	Family?
	Any of your family?
	Um, no, but I mean we have a lot of paranormal experiences that goes on in my family.
	Me personally, I dealt with angels, a lot of interdimensional beings.
	I believe at one time there was an attempt abduction on my life.
	Oh, well, no wonder you're wondering about it.
	Sure.
	I mean, these things are said to happen all the time, or a lot.
	Sure.
	You think that you were almost abducted by an interdimensional being or an angel?
	I didn't, did you say, I didn't think angels abducted?
	Oh, no.
	Interdimensional beings, possibly.
	Oh, no, no, no.
	I wasn't saying, like, angels, um, I'm just saying, like, um, alright, let's just say, like, alright, alright, for example, let's say you've seen, you've seen a lot of UFOs yourself, right?
	Not a lot, no.
	A lot is many, many, many.
	I've seen two.
	Two, okay.
	Alright, let's just say, like, from that point in time that you saw, saw the, saw the, saw the UFO, that somewhere along in that time before you saw it, maybe somebody else, like, in the neighborhood, or in that region, probably... Oh, in my neighborhood?
	Alright, thank you very much.
	In my neighborhood, lots of people see UFOs, and could I have been abducted?
	Yes.
	Could my wife and I have been abducted?
	Yes.
	We could have been.
	I could be...
	An entirely different person, you know, where it counts.
	Now, there's no real way to tell, I suppose.
	Hypnosis, I guess, regression, I don't know.
	But these words that you're hearing right now may not be Art Bell's.
	They may be, you know, almost Art Bell's.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey, Mr. Bell, how you doing?
	Hey, all right.
	Hey, listen, I'm listening to you on 720 out of Las Vegas.
	KDWN.
	And I am in the Kingdom of Nye.
	Oh, you're in Vrub?
	Yes, I am.
	I had actually spoke to you last year.
	I work for a company here in town.
	May I say who they are?
	Yeah, sure.
	Rancom Satellite.
	Oh, yeah, I know Rancom, sure.
	And I spoke to you briefly, and you had mentioned that you wanted to know if we were going to install your Dish 500 system.
	Um, yes.
	And I was wondering if you ever got that.
	Oh, that's right.
	That was when I got the, I had the box here, and I was going to have a scheduled install, and I hadn't heard anything from the installers, who were actually coming out of Las Vegas.
	Ah.
	And I called you to find out if you were a local guy.
	I remember.
	I would have loved to have done it, sure.
	Well, um, you see, it was more than just Dish 500.
	Uh-huh.
	I have high-speed internet from satellite, two-way from satellite.
	And that's why I was so hot for it.
	Right.
	So, well, yeah, thank you very much for the call.
	That's right.
	That was a nervous time for me.
	I had this big box in the other room, you know.
	And it's high-speed internet, two-way from the satellite, done through the Dish company.
	And I was really hot to get it on.
	It's really a lot of fun.
	They're still working the bugs out of it, but it does work.
	You get high-speed internet, both transmitted up to and transmitted back from the satellite.
	That's the big difference.
	We've always had a sort of a one-way deal before, but now you can actually transmit up to the satellite, and I'm doing that.
	They're ironing the bugs out of it, but it's pretty cool.
	On the international line, you're on the air.
	Where do I get rid of this echo?
	Now you're on the air.
	Hello there.
	Hiya, hello.
	Greetings from down under.
	Well, Australia!
	Yes, Melbourne, Australia.
	How's everything down there?
	Oh, very, very hot at the moment, I must tell you.
	Oh, that's right, it's mid-summer there.
	Yes, it is.
	So, there's a lot of catch-up to do.
	What's been going on down there that I should know about?
	What's been going on?
	Well, I've heard a couple of reports.
	This is going a few months.
	Well, there was one thing in the paper about UFOs.
	Well, they thought that a UFO crashed and then they came back and that was just a meteorite, blah, blah, blah.
	Usual stuff.
	So nothing, I mean, nothing really incredibly hot?
	Well, there is one thing actually.
	You know how they're bringing Mir down?
	Oh, yes.
	Hopefully in the ocean.
	Yeah, well, it's apparently not too far away from our mainland.
	Well, you know, I was thinking the same thing.
	They frequently, of course, say they're going to bring it down in a certain spot, and most times it doesn't come down there at all.
	In fact, sometimes it misses by as much as a continent, spatially a continent.
	And, you know, a frequent target for stuff that has fallen has been Australia.
	Now, I wonder what would happen if this thing came down Well, not on you, but near you even.
	It would be a major catastrophe, I can tell you that.
	Well, keep your eyes on the sky, and I forget when they're going to bring it down, in the next two months.
	It's in the next month, I think.
	The next month?
	Yeah.
	And just before I go, have you got any plans to do a ghost to ghost before Halloween?
	Oh, of course.
	Oh, right.
	You know, I've been missing that.
	It's been a long time since I've done that.
	We'll definitely do one.
	I love scaring myself silly, sir.
	So do I. So do I. Alright, done deal.
	We'll do a Ghost to Ghost.
	Yes, Ghost to Ghosts are a blast.
	And it's because... It's because people do like to be scared.
	He had it right.
	I like to get myself scared, too.
	And a lot of times when I do it, I turn the lights down in here.
	And some of the stories just scare the hell out of you.
	And there's a good reason for it.
	It's because I completely believe that ghosts are real.
	I completely believe that.
	There are ghosts.
	There are entities.
	And I began to consider something interesting earlier today.
	Somebody sent me a fax about invisible people.
	Invisible people.
	Now, I don't know whether he meant actual people who are invisible, which is one possibility.
	Or whether he meant the entities that perhaps at one time were people and are invisible to us, nevertheless able to observe us.
	Either way, it's kind of freaky, isn't it?
	Well, to the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Oh, I've got echo again.
	Hold on.
	All right.
	There we go.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Eugene, Oregon.
	Eugene, Oregon.
	All right.
	Welcome.
	Hi.
	This is Vince.
	I'm listening to you on KPNW 1120.
	That's the one, and Eugene.
	You bet.
	And Art, I just had a couple questions.
	I wondered if you could enlighten me.
	I'm an ex-Navy Submariner, Missile Tech, Polaris guy.
	So I've been in the aerospace industry a while, and I was watching an interesting show today on the Republic Access Channel, and I just caught the middle of it.
	And what was it about?
	The landing on the moon and the falsification of it.
	Oh, you're another one of those.
	You're in the Wayne Green camp, aren't you?
	Well, I just caught this, and one interesting aspect, they brought up several points.
	Oh, there's a million points.
	Wayne was here at the house not all that long ago, and he said there is no way the astronauts could have fit through the hatch with the spacesuits they had on, that kind of thing.
	If you talk about measuring a hatch, they wouldn't let him.
	But the thing that really struck me and it kind of correlated with the high energy solar
	radiation in the Van Allen belts and how we actually protected the astronauts outside
	the Van Allen belts during that time when we had high solar radiation, and that was
	a real question in my mind.
	We had a very interesting discussion on Ham Radio the other night.
	This, of course, is nothing but a conspiracy theory, but it's kind of worth thinking about.
	You know, when you fly in an airliner at 30, 40,000 feet, if there's a solar flare, you get a fair amount of radiation.
	If it's a big flare, you get quite a bit of radiation, actually.
	I wonder if we can get a pilot talking about that.
	But when you fly the Concorde, and you're up at 60,000 plus feet, you get a lot of radiation.
	And we were sort of mulling over the other day, they of course had the Concorde crash, and I still to this very day don't understand why they grounded the whole fleet of Concordes.
	We were talking about this on Ham Radio.
	I mean, there's an airplane that has never had an accident, never, never, never, all these years, until it has one accident, And it's, we believe, because of something it picked up junk on the runway.
	Would that really be a reason to ground an entire fleet of aircraft?
	Not really.
	Now, there may be more to it, we'll find out, and maybe there is a reason, but if that's the reason, it's not good enough.
	And so we started speculating about, well, why might they ground the Concorde fleet?
	Well, we're at solar maximum, or just past it, one of the two, but it's really hot up there right now.
	And we thought, well, maybe it's just a reason.
	Maybe the real reason they're not so unhappy to put Concordes down is because we are at solar maximum, and there's an awful lot of radiation that occurs at that altitude.
	Just a conspiracy theory, but we kind of thought about it.
	OK, on the international line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Welcome back out.
	It's Rusty from down under.
	Well, hello, another Australian call.
	Great.
	Yes, the national UFO hotline has had a few interesting calls over the last couple of months.
	Oh?
	And I just thought that it's interesting that you're back on air in America.
	I seem to be.
	Yes, now why the sudden return?
	Well, I explained all of that last night.
	Oh, you did?
	Yeah, I did.
	And if you want to really know, go to my website and listen to the interview done on the NBC Today Show and that will explain it all to you so I don't have to do it right now.
	Well, it's good to see that a refreshing fellow like you is back on the air.
	Thank you.
	Well, we had some interesting reports on Australia Day weekend, Australia Day itself, our national celebration day, where F-111s and fighter jets were doing dump and fuels, and people on that particular day were ringing up the hotline left, right and centre, so people seemed to be wanting to see strange things in the sky once again.
	Well, listen, another gentleman called from Australia just prior to yourself, And he was talking about the possibility of, as you know, mirrors coming down.
	Hopefully not on you, but apparently near you.
	And the percentage of possible miss includes you.
	So, how do you feel about that?
	Well, I think Australia is a very big continent island and there's very few people here.
	The chances of me hitting someone is less remote than being bitten by a mosquito.
	That's true.
	Are you familiar with our reality TV series, Survivor?
	Yes, apparently it went to air last night or the night before in the United States.
	Oh no, we're down into I think week three almost here, coming up on week three, but it was done there in your Australian outback.
	Are you far from that?
	Well, probably about 2,000 miles.
	2,000 miles.
	That really looks like an interesting, beautiful, dangerous area.
	Well, 90% of Australia is really like that.
	Is it really?
	Yes, there's only about 8-10% of arable land.
	That's mainly along the coast and on the eastern side in particular.
	I don't know what your area is, but I understand you're in the desert yourself.
	Well, I am.
	We don't have a lot of crocodiles here, for example.
	Well, up north, when you get more to the tropics, it becomes sort of like a savannah.
	Very hot.
	When it's hot, you can hardly breathe.
	And then you become crocodile bait, I suppose.
	Crocodile bait.
	Well, I guess that old saying of Crocodile Dundee and so forth is fairly accurate.
	There really are people like that there, huh?
	The crocodiles up there was enough to frighten the Japanese Army away during the Second World War.
	So they were good for something?
	Well, that's right.
	The theory goes that if they get through the Crocs, the Sharks, the Crocodiles, and then the Savannah, then the Desert, they're doing alright.
	Then they've got to meet us.
	Alright, well listen, I'm going to depend on you for reliable reports on what's going on in Australia, and if Mir does come down there, I want you to talk it down for me, alright?
	I certainly will not.
	All right.
	Thanks for the call.
	All right.
	You take care.
	And I thought this has got to be a very good piece of bumper, a very appropriate piece of bumper music on my second day back.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Well, this is Coast to Coast AM.
	It's all right, it's coming up.
	We gotta get right back to where we started from.
	Love is good, love's good to show.
	We gotta get right back to where we started from.
	Do you remember that day?
	I remember.
	When you first came my way.
	When no one take your place.
	You can get hurt, you can get hurt, by the little things I do.
	From west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222, or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
	800-825-5033. First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222 or use the wildcard
	line at 1-775-727-1295. To reach out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T
	operator and have them dial 800-893-0903. This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on
	the Premier Radio Network.
	Good evening fellow travelers in the dark.
	Not of the dark, but in the dark.
	I'm Art Bell and this is Ghost to Ghost AM.
	Coming up in a moment is Dr. Michio Kaku.
	And this is a pretty song.
	This of course is Lorena McKinnon.
	Dr. Kaku is to physics What Carl Sagan was to astronomy.
	He is a professor of Theoretics at City College of New York.
	He is co-founder of String Field Theory.
	He's a heavyweight.
	He is the author of the critically acclaimed and best-selling Hyperspace, as well as Beyond Einstein with Jennifer Thompson, Quantum Field Theory, A Modern Introduction, and Introduction to Super Strings.
	He hosts his own hour-long weekly radio science program that is nationally syndicated.
	At least, I think he still does that.
	We'll ask him.
	And, oh, I've got to ask him about his website, too.
	So, coming up in a moment, Dr. Michio Kaku.
	It'll be quite a night.
	We will use Fast Blast tonight.
	And I'll try and get to as many calls with Dr. Kaku as I can.
	So, seat yourself and prepare.
	All right, here we go.
	Dr. Michio Kaku from New York City.
	Welcome back.
	Gosh, it's great to have you back, Dr. Kaku.
	And Art, it's great to have you back on the airwaves again.
	Thank you.
	Before we even begin, there's something new or old or something different about your website.
	That's right.
	I have a new website set up by my friend Michael Phillips.
	It's www.michaelphillips.com.
	Mkaku.org.
	That's M-K-A-K-U.org.
	So it's a new website.
	It's revised every few months.
	And I think it's a fantastic website designed by my friend Michael Phillips.
	It's M-K-A-K-U.org.
	All right.
	Wonderful.
	My webmaster is putting up a link then as we speak.
	All right.
	Well, gosh, where even to begin?
	Doctor, what makes somebody like yourself even want to be a physicist?
	I mean, if you go back A lot of parents will probably want to hear this.
	If you go back to your early life, what was it that sent you in the direction that you went?
	Well, you know, I think when a kid is about 10, 11, 12, before they hit 13.
	That's when they're ripe to really have their eyes open to the wonders of physics and cosmology and science.
	By the time they hit 13, 14, puberty kicks in.
	The hormones kick in, right?
	Oh, yes.
	And you start to worry about girls and dating and your parents and stuff like that.
	That's right.
	But I think when you get kids that are young, and at that point, they really begin to wonder, where did the sun come from?
	Where did the oceans come from?
	Where did they come from?
	That's the time to hit them.
	That's what hit me when I was 10 and 11 years old and around that time everyone was talking about the fact that Einstein had just died.
	Everyone was talking about the fact that the greatest scientist of our age had died.
	With his greatest work unfinished.
	Yes.
	Greatest work.
	His unified field theory was unfinished.
	Everyone was talking about this.
	The theory that would allow us to read the mind of God.
	The theory of everything it's called, right?
	The theory of everything, right.
	And then people forgot about it because it was such a grand quest.
	He was so far ahead of his time that it would take another 40 years before people begin to retrace the steps laid out by Einstein back in the 40s and 50s.
	Do you have any idea what separated Einstein from the rest of us?
	Any idea at all?
	Well, yes.
	First, he had the ability to think in terms of pictures.
	He said that unless there was a physical picture that you had in your head, all the equations of the world were useless, unless you had that picture.
	The picture had to be correct.
	And when he was 14 years of age, he had the first great picture.
	He thought he could race a light beam.
	He could go neck and neck with a light beam.
	And then he realized that if he was watching racing with the light beam, the light beam would be stationary.
	Just like if you raced with a train, the train would be stationary.
	And then he thought that was nonsense.
	You know, trains can be put to rest if you race with a train, but light beams, light beams are always moving at the speed of light.
	You can't stop a light beam.
	You can't freeze it.
	Now, since you went there, I happen to have this New York Times article in front of me entitled, Scientists bring light to full stop, hold it, then send it on its way.
	That's right.
	At that point, the media went crazy and said that the physicist at Texas A&M University disproved Einstein.
	That you really can outrace a train, and you really can outrace a light beam.
	However, Einstein still has the last laugh.
	Einstein said that the speed of light is a constant in a vacuum.
	In a vacuum, you cannot outrace a light beam.
	These people shot a laser beam into a bunch of gas molecules.
	The gas molecules absorbed the light beam, held it, held it, and then re-emitted it much later.
	As a consequence, there was a delay factor.
	A delay factor in the absorption and re-emission of the light beam.
	And that's why, for example, light flows down in your glasses.
	The reason why light flows down in your glasses is because the atoms of your glass absorb the light and then re-emit it with a slight time delay.
	Well, these people have been able to delay it so much that they can essentially stop light.
	Wait a minute.
	I wear glasses.
	You mean I have visual latency?
	That's right.
	The atoms of your glass capture light, hold on to it, hold on to it for a fraction of a second, then re-emit it in the same direction.
	And that gives you the illusion that light has slowed down in glass.
	And when light slows down in glass, it bends.
	And that's why you have lenses.
	That's why you have telescope.
	But the key word, illusion, it's not actually slowing, it's just diverting?
	That's right.
	A light beam comes in, absorbed by an atom, the atom then holds on to it for a fraction of a second, and then re-emits it on its way.
	Yeah, but it's not actually holding on to it, is it?
	In the sense that it's slowing it down in any way.
	It's simply sending it this way or that way and then on.
	That's right.
	So it's a misnomer to say that the same light beam actually slowed down.
	Well, okay.
	In a vacuum, the speed of light is always the same.
	Einstein had the last laugh.
	So the New York Times article headline was really full of it.
	That's right.
	However, this is very interesting for what is called quantum computers.
	One day we may be able to replace silicon with light beams, and if we can then stop a light beam by having it absorbed by a gas molecule, then we can use it to compute, you see.
	And so this may usher in something called the post-silicon era, an era 20, 30 years down the line when silicon power is exhausted and Silicon Valley becomes a rust belt.
	And so when Silicon Valley becomes a rust belt, we're going to have to go to the next generation beyond silicon And that's where we may be able to use optical computers and quantum computers.
	How far?
	Do you have any idea how far they're going to be able to go with the silicon?
	In other words, about every, what is it, 18 months, they double the speed, right?
	That's right.
	But Moore's Law will collapse in about 20 years.
	I wrote an article for Time Magazine about two months ago about this.
	In 20 years time, We're going to see Silicon Valley turned into a rust belt.
	And you may see Bill Gates selling pencils on the unemployment line down there.
	You may see a lot of Silicon Valley moguls bankrupt when we exhaust the power of silicon and we no longer have the doubling time of 18 months.
	At that point we have to go to a new generation of computers like quantum computers, optical computers, There's a whole generation of computers based on molecules, like DNA, for example.
	Well, I can assure you that Bill Gates did not get to where he is not knowing when to sell stocks, so he'll be alright.
	I think so.
	But we can really go another 20 years doing this?
	Yeah, I think in 15 years we're going to be gradually hitting the limit, because the layers of silicon, these layers of silicon that we pile on top of each other, will be about 5 atoms across.
	Right now, the thinnest layer in a pentium chip is about 20 atoms across. 20.
	Twenty atoms across.
	When we hit five atoms across, you get leakage taking place.
	There's something called the uncertainty principle.
	The electrons don't, you don't know where the electrons are anymore.
	They could be inside the wire or outside the wire.
	So it's not exactly a yes or a no, it's a, it could be a maybe.
	It could be a maybe, right.
	And so when these electrons go through these layers that are five atoms across, the electrons leak.
	You get leakage taking place.
	You can't construct a wire five atoms across.
	You can't construct transistors, resistors, all the components that you find in a radio that are five atoms across.
	So would we at that point begin to get unreliable computing?
	That's right.
	At that point, your Christmas tree presents under the Christmas tree are not going to be twice as powerful as they were in the previous Christmas.
	People are going to get bored realizing that computers are flattened out in terms of power.
	That their toys this year are identical to the toys the previous year.
	Well, I'm already fed up with having to buy computers every so often anyway.
	I'm really tired of it.
	And a lot of Americans, I think, are.
	I mean, they just go ahead so fast that there's no way you can keep up.
	And they have this commercial on TV with a guy driving home with a new T5 and the guy's just pasting up the sign to the T6.
	But you see, the next generation of computers, I think, are going to use this new power that we have with this doubling time.
	The next generation of computers, like maybe five years away, are going to have voice recognition.
	You'll be able to talk to computers.
	You'll be able to have computers so small they'll be placed in your glasses.
	They'll be placed in your clothes, monitoring your heartbeat and your bodily functions.
	Really?
	Even your toilet will be smart and monitor all your bodily fluids.
	I don't know if I want a smart toilet.
	Anyway, in my book, Visions, which became a best-seller, partly because of my being on your show, I think, my book, Visions, takes us 20, 30, 40 years into the future, when computers become essentially the size of dust particles.
	Dust particles?
	Yeah, the military and corporations are looking at computers the size of dust particles.
	This is called smart dust.
	If you have a battlefield, for example, and you spray it with dust particles, these dust particles can have sensors on it, because these dust particles have little pieces of silicon etched on its transistors, which then sense the battlefield.
	And so the military is quite interested in this, the idea that you can simply spray over a battlefield dust, which monitors troop movements.
	It allows you to guide missiles and essentially see the whole battlefield in three dimensions.
	Wow.
	Well, all I know is I don't want my toilet complaining about tacos or whatever it was I consumed yesterday.
	And telling you that you eat too much.
	That's right.
	That's right.
	We really have to straighten this diet out, guy.
	So that's where computers are headed, ultimately.
	Computers are going to disappear.
	The word computer could actually disappear from the English language.
	Um, we don't talk about motors anymore, and yet our car has something like 20 motors in it.
	You sure?
	We just act as if things, uh, move, uh, you know, on their own inside a car.
	And so the word computer will gradually disappear from the English language as we begin to talk to appliances, uh, our clothes will monitor our heartbeat, our glasses will connect to the internet, and our glasses will even recognize people on the street, for example.
	So the word computer will gradually disappear from the English language.
	Do you think that socially, people will accept all of this happening?
	I think it's going to be the children, the young, who will jump onto this technology.
	And you know, some of us old timers, we're too old.
	We're over the hump.
	I mean, for us, these new technologies seem alien.
	But young people love this stuff.
	When I talk to students, About whether or not you would buy glasses, which give you full animation, any video on demand, anytime you want.
	You can download any piece of rock music, any video ever produced, any homework assignment ever written on the web.
	I ask my students, do you want it?
	They say, sure.
	Well, now, you've got to ask yourself, Dr. Kaku, you drive the streets of New York, right?
	Right.
	All right.
	Do you want to be driving the streets of New York with some kid coming the other way, watching a full 3D animation rock video and driving toward you?
	Well, I would hope that the car itself He's gradually going to become intelligent so that the car itself will be able to drive, you know, large distances without any human intervention.
	I don't realize it has an idiot for a driver and take over.
	And take over, right.
	But you're saying your students really are ready for this?
	I think the young are going to be the ones propelling this revolution.
	I do a lot of traveling in Europe, and in Europe it's the young people that are gravitating to the cell phones and to this whole wireless technology.
	And they're the future.
	And they accept this technology as if it's like their birthright.
	They assume that computers are going to be twice as powerful every Christmas.
	They assume that that's just the way it is.
	And that they want the latest gadgets.
	And I think that the young are going to be the ones propelling super-fast chips with tremendous computing power with the ability to recognize human speech for decades to come.
	Gosh, I'm old enough to remember my dad bringing home the first television.
	A giant monolith of a thing with a little 7-inch screen.
	And so, to me, television really has been always there, and I assume television.
	I take it for granted.
	And just, in just a short time between when I was born, and perhaps when I pass on, or when I'm older and grayer, they're going to be assuming this sort of technology.
	That's incredible!
	That's right.
	When you talk to young people about the fact that, you know, we oldsters remember a period before television, I mean, it's just unimaginable.
	Because for them, they expect to have television in their wristwatches.
	And I guess I'll have it pretty soon, too.
	Fairly soon, right.
	You can put the Internet on a wristwatch now.
	And the Internet, of course, can be placed on a cell phone.
	But it's only placed on wristwatches.
	Well, it's going to have to come with voice command technology because I've seen some of the wristwatches and nobody but a complete idiot would try to push the buttons.
	That's right.
	You're going to have to talk to it.
	And that's coming, you know.
	Within about five years' time, the computer power will be sufficient to analyze human speech in a reasonable way.
	Right now, it's pretty clunky.
	But in five years' time, they'll get the bugs out.
	And we'll simply, you know, communicate or wave our hands and fingers in three-dimensional space, like a conductor, and be able to communicate with electronic devices.
	Well, I have now, I have wireless internet, I have satellite internet, I have all these wonderful broadband services available to me, even out here in rural Pahrump.
	So, I know all of this is coming, but I'm not certain that it's a good, I'm not convinced it's a good thing.
	Well, I think it's going to be a good thing if it means that information will gradually weaken dictatorships.
	Dictatorships and authoritative regimes rely upon control of information to keep their subjects unhappy and ignorant of what's happening around the world.
	Like the Clinton administration.
	But, you know, think of what happens when your wristwatch communicates with satellites orbiting overhead with the Internet.
	Uh, it's impossible to stop the flow of information.
	It's a dictatorship.
	Uh, well, yes, but, um, you know, my wife and I went to the Super Bowl.
	Mm-hmm.
	And, uh, in Tampa here recently, and, and, uh, there was just a big story that every single person who went into the Super Bowl was scammed.
	Their picture was compared to every known criminal.
	They were hunting for everybody.
	So, with the kind of technology you're talking about, I mean, here we are already doing it at the Super Bowl, for goodness sakes.
	Imagine what it's going to be like when you have this sort of wideband stuff on your wrist.
	Yeah, well, I think at the Super Bowl certain precautions had to be taken.
	I mean, if I had a choice of either going into an arena where there could be a bomb, Versus my just being scanned, you know, over one second.
	I would take the option of being scanned.
	Oh, true.
	But suppose you were a big time IRS evader, or I don't know, you had robbed a bank, or perhaps something much lesser, and there you are, arrested on the spot.
	All I'm saying is, that was mild compared to what you're talking about in terms of technological capability.
	And so with it is going to come some of the big brother stuff, right?
	Well, I think the real problem is little brother.
	The big problem is that your neighbor is going to be nosy, and your neighbor is going to want to know about your credit card transactions, and who you call on the telephone, and who you associate with.
	And we're going to have millions of busybodies with all these electronic gadgets trying to get access to your credit card, your purchase transactions.
	And there's going to have to be a whole generation of software to prevent that.
	I already see advertisements, Doctor, on the internet.
	You want to know about your neighbor?
	Subscribe to this service.
	Right.
	And then blockers.
	I think we will have a big market for blockers in a few years as people want to block all these little brothers down the street that want to find out all about your transactions.
	So I think the market for blockers is coming.
	Right now, of course, people are still nosy.
	They want to get access to other people's bank transactions.
	That's right.
	However, a new generation of software will be created that will begin to block this, and we physicists are already working on this.
	We physicists have created something called quantum cryptography with a laser beam.
	We can now make laser beams that are foolproof, that are untapped.
	You can't tamper with them.
	Anytime you tamper with this laser beam, you change the polarization of the beam, and by the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, you then know that someone's listening in on your conversation.
	Physicists can already make a laser beam which is 100% foolproof.
	Therefore, why don't the military and the CIA and the banks use this?
	Because we have two dummies at either end called human beings, who have big mouths, and that's the weak link in the whole chain.
	Humans are the weak link.
	All right.
	Doctor, hold it right there.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	You're listening to Dr. Michio Kaku, who is one of our nation's greatest theoretical physicists.
	How does the future sound to you?
	Imagine your toilet commenting on your diet.
	Perhaps when, you know, the silicon's gone, the new computers will even develop a sense of humor.
	A place where you don't want to hear it.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	Right now I am gmann Turn Hands
	Now Why not just go Take your place
	I'll hook you Just for me
	Bet you give me One
	Have you ever played rock and ever played rock
	Call ArcBel.
	From west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	And to call out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator.
	And have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
	My guest is Dr. Michio Kaku, and he's one of our nation's greatest theoretical physicists.
	It's a great night to get in a question.
	I'm going to be weaving Fast blast questions on screen, fast blast questions in, as well as telephone calls through the night.
	So if you have one, get on the website and ask it.
	We'll get back to Dr. Khakou in a moment.
	Once again, back to New York City and Dr. Michio Kaku.
	Welcome back, Doctor.
	Glad to be on.
	Okay, so this whole thing about stopping light, while not being exactly right, represents how much of a leap in terms of possible computer technology?
	Well, quantum computers, which is perhaps the ultimate computer.
	Computers that compute on individual atoms and individual light beams.
	There's still decades away.
	At the present time, we can compute on about five atoms.
	That's the limit before you get interference, disturbances, impurities, and the thing becomes unstable.
	Now, to get a quantum computer that would outrace the human brain, for example, or do fantastic calculations for the space program, that would require several million atoms.
	And we simply can't do that yet in the laboratory.
	Once we assemble a collection of atoms, more than about five or six, it gets unstable.
	Impurities begin to form and interference takes place.
	But it's only a practical consideration.
	Within a few decades, if we can eliminate the interference, if we can eliminate all the disturbances, and we could create a quantum computer, we might be able to approach the computational ability of the human brain.
	And again, that's decades away, so I don't think that we're going to be placed in a zoo anytime soon by robots who are going to take over the Earth.
	Okay.
	Well, time travel has always been one of my great fascinations and hopes.
	And I read in a certain book that when quantum computers are perfected, time travel might be possible.
	You've always said it requires a great deal of power.
	Would quantum computers go toward possibly allowing time travel?
	Well, I personally don't think so.
	I think the way to go backwards in time, assuming that's possible, the way to bend time into a pretzel is to amass an incredible amount of energy comparable to that of a black hole, and then to walk through it.
	Now, just a few days ago, it was announced that physicists have more or less seen the event horizon of a black hole.
	They've seen black holes eat their lunch.
	They've seen black holes eat up whole stars in the galaxies in outer space.
	This is the first time we've seen the outlines of what appears to be the event horizon.
	And that's incredible.
	There's even a science fiction movie called The Event Horizon.
	I saw it.
	How do they manage to see The Event Horizon?
	Is it because of the junk being drawn in?
	That's right.
	With the Hubble Space Telescope and other devices, they've seen this swirling disk of gas being eaten up by the black hole.
	The black hole is basically having lunch, eating whole stars, okay?
	However, now they got closer and closer to the black hole itself.
	And they can actually begin to see the rough outlines of the event horizon.
	The event horizon is a point of no return.
	Once you go past the event horizon, then you automatically are crushed by the mass of the star.
	Now, for example, if you take our sun, and you were to squeeze our sun to about one mile, which is impossible.
	You're not going to be able to do that with gravity.
	But if you could squeeze our sun to about one mile, that's the event horizon of the sun.
	At that point, the sun would collapse into a black hole.
	And any object that came within this radius of one mile of the sun would then be crushed forever.
	Okay?
	Now, our universe probably has an event horizon, because our universe is probably a black hole.
	If you want to know what it looks like to be inside the event horizon, look around your room.
	Our universe satisfies the black hole equation.
	Which simply means, by the way, that you can't escape our universe.
	Once you're inside the event horizon, you cannot escape.
	Because of the intense gravitational pull of the black hole.
	Well, you can't escape our universe either.
	Try leaving our universe.
	No matter where you jump, you can't escape our universe.
	Really?
	Which simply means that our universe is probably a hyperbubble.
	Our universe is probably a bubble.
	We live on the skin of this bubble.
	And no matter where we jump, we're always stuck on the surface of this bubble.
	So, our universe itself is probably a black hole.
	Now, I mention this because there is a theory that if you go through a black hole, or through tremendous concentration of energy, you may wind up before you left.
	And there are many solutions of Einstein's equations which allow for time travel.
	The simplest one is if the universe itself were to rotate If you had a rotating universe and you walked around the universe in a circle, you would arrive before you left.
	Right.
	And this, of course, is the classic definition of a time machine.
	Now, Einstein knew this.
	Einstein knew that in 1949, his neighbor, Kurt Gödel, found this solution which allowed for time travel.
	And in Einstein's memoirs, he was very much worried about this.
	He didn't like to have time travel in his universe.
	And he said in his memoirs that you can rule out this time travel universe because of physical consideration.
	In other words, the universe expands.
	It doesn't rotate.
	If the universe rotated instead of expanded, then time travel would become in place.
	I'm still working on the bubble.
	You said we are a bubble and that we cannot leave the bubble.
	That's right.
	We are like ants on the skin of a balloon.
	The balloon is expanding.
	And in fact, it's accelerating, and the balloon will never re-collapse, which is kind of depressing for some people.
	We're going to go to what is called the Big Chill, or the Big Freeze, as this bubble gets bigger and bigger and bigger.
	In other words, we become more and more rule here on Earth.
	Things are moving farther away from us and farther away from us.
	Things are getting colder, and things are getting farther apart as the universe expands.
	If you look at the galaxies, they are moving away from us.
	And we have what is called the red shift, that is, objects move away from us.
	There's no blue shift to speak of.
	When we look at outer space, we don't see a blue shift in galaxies.
	We see a uniform red shift that gets redder the farther you go.
	Then that conflicts with what I've got here from CNN today.
	A group of astronomers, their headline is, Astronomers hatch plan to move Earth's orbit from warming sun.
	They're saying that in about three and a half billion years, Our sun will be 40% brighter than it is today and that the only way we could live is to move the earth farther away from the sun.
	That's a definite possibility.
	The sun will exhaust its nuclear fuel totally in five billion years.
	Our sun is middle-aged.
	It's halfway through its life cycle.
	Our sun is about four and a half billion years of age right now.
	About the age of the earth also.
	However, in another five billion years, it'll completely exhaust its energy and become a red giant.
	And when our sun expands into a red giant, it's going to get very hot, as mentioned in that article.
	The sky will be on fire.
	You look up in the sky, the sky will be on fire.
	The oceans will boil, and the mountains will melt.
	At that point, we should think about leaving the Earth, even before that happens.
	So in three and a half billion years, either we leave the Earth, Or we move the Earth itself.
	They say even in a billion years, it might not be habitable.
	It's possible.
	The greenhouse effect, for example, is just going to increase the temperature of the Earth just for a few degrees, and that could wipe out the growing areas of many parts of the United States.
	Imagine what happens if the temperature rises by a few hundred degrees.
	Life on Earth would be impossible as we know it.
	And by that time, we may have to have rocket ships to leave the Earth.
	Or, if we're very advanced, like, you know, we become what is called a Type II civilization.
	We may want to simply move the Earth away from the Sun.
	And that, of course, is now a billion to three billion years into the future.
	Well, I hate to ask a teacher to do this, but I guess that's what teachers do.
	Can we go through the types of civilizations again?
	Yes.
	So everybody understands what we're talking about.
	That's right.
	When we physicists look at outer space, we don't look for the little green men you see in science fiction movies.
	We look for type 1, type 2, and type 3 civilizations.
	Now a type 1 civilization has the power of an entire planet.
	They control all forms of planetary energy.
	Hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes.
	They mine the ocean.
	They have cities on the ocean.
	That's not even us.
	That's not even us.
	That's a type one civilization.
	Okay, what are we?
	We are type zero.
	Zero?
	We don't even rank on this scale.
	We get our energy from dead plants.
	Oil and coal is where we get our energy from.
	We don't mine volcanoes.
	We can't control hurricanes.
	That's type 1.
	But we don't drag women into caves by their hair any longer, so we must be somewhere between a 0 and a 1.
	Well, in terms of energy, we're barely on the scale.
	If you take a thermometer and measure the energy of a consumption of a type 1, type 2, and type 3, we're just barely off 0 in terms of energy consumption.
	That's kind of depressing.
	2 civilization has exhausted the power of a planet and they essentially can control the power of a star.
	The Federation of Planets in Star Trek is a beginning, emerging type 2 civilization.
	They can just begin to ignite single stars.
	A mature type 2 civilization can play with stars.
	And then a type 3 civilization is galactic.
	Truly galactic.
	They control the power of the black hole at the center of the Milky Way Galaxy, for example.
	They have many, many star systems around the galaxy that's been colonized.
	Each level is separated from the previous level by 10 billion times.
	You can compute numerically the energy scale at which each civilization exists.
	Now, we grow at about 3% a year in terms of our energy consumption on the Earth, about 3% a year.
	At that rate, we will hit Type I in about 100 years.
	And you can see it all around you.
	The Internet is nothing but a Type 1 telephone system.
	That's all the Internet is.
	Are we moving in a linear fashion toward Type 1, or are we accelerating exponentially?
	We're going exponentially to Type 1.
	At a 3% increase in our gross energy consumption, we will hit Type 1 in about 100 years.
	Now that's kind of neat.
	In 100 years, you already see it.
	There's a planetary language emerging called English.
	There's a planetary culture emerging called Hollywood and MTV.
	Is that really what's going to take us to take one?
	Well, I think we're going to have two cultures.
	We will have a planetary culture, the culture of Hollywood, the culture of English, and then we will have local cultures.
	Local cultures which flourish, you know, and have their language systematized on the internet.
	These languages will live forever on the Internet, even if no one speaks them anymore.
	But the metalanguage, the language of the Earth itself, educated people around the Earth will all speak English and will all be hooked up to this planetary culture.
	I don't think the French will ever do that.
	Well, it's inevitable.
	I think the French have resisted the Internet with all their might.
	They've resisted English.
	Do you know what they think of English?
	Not much.
	But I think it's coming, and it's coming very rapidly, that in about a hundred years, gradually, we're going to have a planetary culture with a planetary language.
	The European Union, for example.
	All these countries in Europe have been killing each other and slaughtering each other for the last, you know, 500 years.
	And now they're banding together.
	They have to, because the economies of the world are gradually being globalized.
	So we're seeing the birth of Type 1.
	And once we hit Type 2, that could happen within just a few thousand years, by the way.
	We may have the power to move the Earth.
	Our energy will be 10 billion times the energy of a Type 1.
	And that's sufficient to begin to move the Earth itself.
	So clearly, then, the timeline is okay.
	In other words, they're talking about a billion years before we're uninhabitable, if you're talking about the suns blooming into a red giant.
	Now, we've got plenty of time to become a Type II or even better before that happens.
	Right.
	Assuming we don't self-destruct.
	In just about a hundred years, we'll be Type I. In a few thousand years, we'll be Type II.
	And then there's some debate about this.
	In perhaps 100,000 to a million years, we'll be Type 3, which is just a twinkling of an eye when you think about the galaxy.
	What's the difference between a Type 3 civilization and God?
	Well, if you watch Star Trek, there could be Type 4.
	Type 4 is beyond galactic.
	A Type 3 civilization would be the Borg, for example, a civilization that eats up smaller civilizations that are Type 2.
	They eat Type 2 civilizations for breakfast.
	But a Type 4 would be the Q. They would have the power of space-time itself.
	The Q, virtually a god.
	Almost a god.
	They would have the power of the continuum.
	And we now believe that there's something called dark energy.
	and dark matter, most of the universe in fact, 95% of the universe, is not made out of atoms.
	They're made out of dark energy and dark matter.
	And a type four civilization may have the power to manipulate space, time, and dark
	energy, which is the energy of nothing.
	The energy of space itself.
	And this is rocking the world of physics.
	Just for the last two years, people thought dark energy was impossible.
	It didn't exist.
	Einstein didn't like it.
	Now dark energy is all the rage.
	Well, we're going to talk a lot about dark energy, but before humans who are listening to this get their heads too swelled, they should know, I've asked you in the past, we're type 0 plus 001 or whatever it is, way down on the scale right now.
	The chances of our making it from zero to one are not exactly really hot, are they?
	In other words, most Type Zero civilizations probably blow themselves up.
	Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head.
	When we scan outer space and we don't see much out there, there should be thousands of type 1 civilizations out there communicating by radio, television, the internet, what have you, right?
	We don't see anything out there.
	Worrisome, yes.
	Very worrisome.
	So the laws of probability are such that perhaps in outer space there are dead planets, planets
	with irradiated atmospheres, planets with atmospheres too hot because of the greenhouse
	effect to carry life.
	And so in outer space there could have been many attempts to make the transition from
	type 0 to type 1.
	And that's the most dangerous of all transitions.
	You see a type 2 civilization is immortal.
	Nothing known to science can destroy type 2.
	Meteors, comets, supernovas, nothing can destroy type 2.
	Except a type 3.
	Except a type 3, right.
	Now between type 0 to type 1, the transition that we are undergoing right now, we are undergoing
	the greatest transition in the history of the human race.
	Next hundred years.
	The next hundred years is the greatest of all transitions in the history of the human race.
	That's really exciting, but the odds of getting there are about 1.
	Well, gee, I don't know.
	I mean, if you take the... Brutally honest here.
	Brutally honest.
	I give it 10-20%.
	10-20%.
	To make it impact.
	And we could make it with a lot of scars, but I think 10-20% chance that we'll make it intact with all our arms and legs intact.
	So there's an 80 or 90% chance that what?
	That either we won't make it or we'll make it crippled.
	Not making it.
	Does that mean nuclear holocaust?
	Does that mean the sun does a burp and we all irradiate and die?
	What are the ways that we might not make it?
	We might not make it if proliferation gets out of control.
	Nuclear proliferation.
	You mean like it is now?
	Well, you know, if we develop a Star Wars program, the Chinese have vowed to pierce and overwhelm it, and the Russians too, and then the Indians have vowed to match the Chinese, and the Pakistanis have vowed to match the Indians.
	So if the Pakistanis are matching the Indians, are matching the Chinese, are matching the Russians, are matching the Star Wars program, you can imagine there's going to be a fast increase in the number of unstable nuclear weapons in the next five years.
	And that is the direction we're headed right now, isn't it?
	That's right.
	We're talking about war in outer space.
	And we're talking about billions of dollars that will only make the Chinese, the Indians, and the Pakistanis more fearful.
	And they will want the Hindu bomb.
	They will want the Muslim bomb.
	They will want the Confucius bomb to rival our Star Wars program.
	And where's it going to end?
	Are you a supporter of Star Wars or a detractor?
	Well, I think it's not going to work, and I think there are better ways to spend our resources to make the transition to Type 1.
	Alright, we'll talk more about that in a moment.
	Dr. Michio Kaku from New York City, one of the world's greatest theoretical physicists, would be my guest at the moment.
	I'm Art Bell, and from the high deserts, this is Coast to Coast AM.
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	on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	It is indeed, and my guest is Dr. Michio Kaku, one of our nation's greatest theoretical physicists.
	It's a real honor to have him here. We're talking about all kinds of things.
	At the moment, I guess, in a way, defends the Star Wars program.
	I'm kind of interested to get his take on it.
	And another thing we're going to cover is Dark Matter.
	And by the way, we're going to start taking fast, blast questions and telephone calls.
	If you want to get Dr. Kaku, I don't blame you.
	So do I. I love... I really love sax.
	It's a type zero kind of thing, but I'm really into it.
	Get it or be eaten.
	I like that.
	Alright, that's kind of like defense.
	Doctor, welcome back.
	We were talking about SDI.
	That's right.
	And I guess they are to some degree proceeding with SDI, even though they sort of weren't supposed to.
	There's two really good arguments.
	One is that we really do need a good defense, and these other countries are developing missiles that can reach our country, and if we can stop them, that would seem to be a good thing.
	But I understand the other side of the question, too.
	So, understanding the need for defense in America in our type zero-ness, how do you How do you think this one's true?
	Well, think of the French just before World War II.
	They built what is called the Maginot Line.
	Right.
	And the Maginot Line was supposed to be this impregnable line of defense to protect them against the Germans.
	No frontal assault of the Germans would penetrate the Maginot Line.
	Right.
	Well, the Germans were not stupid.
	They knew that.
	They knew they couldn't launch a frontal assault.
	So what did they do?
	They launched the Blitzkrieg.
	They went over it and around it.
	And completely overwhelm the Maginot Line within a matter of hours.
	So all the equivalent of billions of dollars spent on the defense between France and Germany came to naught.
	Because it was so much easier to go over it and around it.
	The same thing with the Star Wars program.
	You can put balloons, aluminum tinfoil balloons and chaff inside the nose cone of a missile.
	Which will release millions of decoys into the enemy's radar system, using our radar.
	And instead of seeing the enemy missile come at you, you'll see a million balloons that you don't know which one is the real missile.
	And so far, none of our missiles have been able to penetrate through just a handful of balloons.
	It only takes us a handful of balloons to fool our most advanced Star Wars system.
	So I'm not saying that you can't do it in principle.
	I'm just saying in a bankrupt United States, And in the meanwhile, the Russians and the Chinese, they're not stupid, neither are the Germans.
	They're going to go around it and over it.
	Meaning they're simply going to overwhelm it with balloons and decoys and chaff, or go around it in the form of, let's say, putting a hydrogen bomb on a tugboat, and then sending the tugboat into San Francisco Harbor.
	So, okay, having said all that though, if you were in charge of our defense today, believing what you believe, What would you be directing?
	Well, first of all, by satellites, we can see other nations build nuclear weapons.
	So we've got to stop it at the source, OK?
	Rather than having the enemies proliferate thousands and thousands of cheap nuclear weapons to penetrate our shield.
	So I think, even though it doesn't sound very dramatic, even though it doesn't sound very glamorous, I think we should engage in treaties and enforcement by satellite and on-site inspections To make sure that these multi-billion dollar infrastructures are not developed by these small nations, who are tempted to proliferate small atomic bombs.
	Alright, but in the case, say, of a North Korea, we see them building, we know what they're building, and we know why they're building it, and what they're probably going to do with it.
	Now, we can sign treaties with them until the cows come home, and they're going to keep doing it.
	When the ultimate crunch point comes, do you send in planes and bomb their ability to do that out of existence as a final measure?
	But I think you hit the nail on the head.
	We know what they're doing.
	We know how they're doing it.
	We know where they're doing it.
	We know an incredible amount about Yongbyon, which is just north of the North Korean capital.
	Where they have a reactor which produces plutonium waste.
	Right.
	Okay?
	We know the rate of plutonium production.
	We know what's going on at the site.
	We just don't know what the North Koreans are doing with the plutonium that the reactor can produce.
	So we can imagine.
	We can imagine.
	However, the very fact that we have all this surveillance means that if we deal with other countries and we demand on-site inspections with satellites or whatever, then we can monitor exactly where plutonium is going.
	Just remember that in order to have a credible threat against the United States, you just can't have just one atomic bomb.
	If you have one atomic bomb, it could be a dud.
	It has no threat value.
	No country is going to launch a war against the United States with just one atomic bomb.
	The danger is they could smuggle it.
	I mean, you know, we can't control our borders with heroin.
	That's right.
	And they could just smuggle it just like you smuggle heroin.
	They could smuggle the bomb parts.
	So we have to stop it at the source, rather than simply ranting and raving against nations that have proliferated hundreds of bombs to overwhelm a Star Wars system.
	I know, but I'm still asking the final crunch question.
	If in the end, all the treaties and all the pressure doesn't get the job done, do you do it the hard way?
	Well, ultimately, okay, if everything fails, Then we are talking in the North Korean area.
	We are talking about perhaps five million people dying in the first week of a war on the Korean Peninsula.
	Let's be frank.
	Every general that I've talked to, every military man that I've come in contact with, and, you know, I get invitations to speak at the War College to talk about nuclear strategy and nuclear technology on the battlefield.
	Anyway, they say that in the first week, if everything fails, Okay.
	We're talking about the South Korean capital, which is very close to the border, being overwhelmed in about four or five days.
	Very quickly.
	Very quickly.
	And the casualties are going to be in the millions.
	Millions.
	And of course, after everything is done, we're going to see millions of North Koreans, dead North Koreans as a consequence, and the South Korean economy being destroyed.
	So we're perhaps saving the village in order, we're destroying the village in order to save the village as they said during the Vietnam War.
	That's reality.
	That's what happens if everything fails.
	We're talking about mass suicide on the Korean Peninsula.
	That's why I hope that we can use bargaining, you know, a little bit of bluster here and there to open up the reactors at Yongbyon.
	But there may be some of that though, some of that Holocaust before we get to Type 1.
	Yes, and that's what I'm afraid of.
	I mean, whenever I gaze at the stars at night, and I realize that the scientists have identified 50 planets now
	orbiting other star systems that, and the stars themselves you can see with binoculars on an evening,
	and then I wonder, do any of them have any life on them?
	Probably not.
	But if there were planets, Earth-sized planets out there, they would be facing perhaps millions of years ago
	the same problem that we're facing today.
	They will discover element 92, uranium.
	It's inevitable they will discover element 92.
	And with that, the ability to perhaps blow themselves to smithereens.
	And so we are in the most dangerous transition in the history of the human race.
	Never before has the human race the capability to destroy itself.
	And that may be the reason why we don't see aliens landing in our backyard every day.
	Professor, is it possible that there are no aliens?
	That there is no other life?
	I mean, that has to be at least on the table.
	Right.
	Well, there is a book called Rare Earth, which argues that.
	I've interviewed the authors of that book, and I hit them with a blistering set of critical questions.
	And they sort of melted, I thought, when I hit them with this.
	The galaxy, just our own Milky Way galaxy, our backyard, has about 100 billion stars.
	Half of which, half of which we now believe have planets.
	Now think about that for a moment.
	We're talking about 50 billion stars with planets and maybe like 10 planets per solar system like our system.
	So already you're talking about an unimaginable number of planets inside our galaxy.
	And to assume that none of them Have intelligent life, I think is silly.
	It was just announced last week that by looking at interstellar gas, scientists have seen the beginnings of cell membranes.
	Not just proteins and amino acids, but the beginnings of cell membranes in gas nebulas in outer space.
	So we now believe that the components of life, amino acids and perhaps proteins and cell membranes, are easier to produce in outer space than we previously thought.
	So I think it is arrogant to think that we're the only ones.
	Is it at all curious that there has been, as of yet, no contact?
	Or is it no surprise to you?
	It's really no surprise at all.
	Like I mentioned in my book, if there is a five-lane superhighway being built in a forest, and there are a bunch of ants in an anthill nearby, would the ants even know there was a five-lane superhighway being built next door?
	How would they comprehend it?
	How would they understand it?
	How would they communicate?
	Only when they saw their little brother ant walk under the wheel of a 60 mile an hour 18-wheeler.
	That's right.
	And we are the ants.
	We're Type 0 looking at a superhighway being laid by Type 3.
	We wouldn't even be able to conceive or communicate with or even understand the motives, the design, the equipment being used.
	It could be happening right next door to us.
	Just like an anthill could have a superhighway next to it.
	And the poor ants wouldn't even know what's happening.
	No, I guess they wouldn't.
	So that's why I'm not bothered at all by the fact that we haven't seen them because, or made radio contact with them, because we only listen on one frequency.
	Can you imagine ants listening in on only one frequency trying to listen in on human communication?
	We humans communicate on many different kinds of frequencies and many different kinds of modes of communication.
	Indeed we do.
	And you know, the SETU program is now moving into a new stage, I believe, where they're beginning to consider looking at light and laser and all kinds of different wavelengths than they've traditionally been looking at.
	Finally!
	It's about time, you know?
	And of course, it's because they lack money.
	They have no money to look at different frequencies other than the frequency of hydrogen gas.
	And should they be getting more money?
	I think so.
	I think it's an insurance policy.
	I am against sending space probes into outer space, like the Voyager, which has a blueprint that locates our position in outer space.
	I think that's a little bit dangerous.
	Look at what happened when Montezuma welcomed Cortez into Mexico City.
	It had a different name back then, of course.
	Within just a few months, the entire Aztec Empire was destroyed by a handful of Spanish conquistadors.
	So I think that we should not advertise our existence in our space probes.
	Instead, we should listen.
	And I think that we should spend more money simply listening on different frequencies other than hydrogen gas.
	I think we sent our genetic structure out on the spacecraft, didn't we?
	We sent the location of the Earth, which restricted the quasars.
	So any intelligent being would know the location of the quasars and triangulate the location of the Earth.
	And I hope they don't think lunch is going to be found when they calculate the letters.
	So, that could be a dangerous little spacecraft out there.
	And you would have advised against launching it?
	I would have advised against putting a plaque giving our location.
	Now, remember that aliens are probably not going to have our DNA, so they're not going to want to eat us in the Twilight Zone sense.
	Remember that episode of To Serve Man?
	Oh, yes.
	A book that was a cookbook about how to serve man, you know, fricasseed and broiled and However, I think that we don't know the aliens' intentions.
	They may be so far above us that they may simply want to pave us over with their alien superhighway.
	So I think we should just listen rather than advertise our existence in outer space.
	Well, I interviewed a man named Seth Shostak, Dr. Shostak, who heads SETI, and Dr. Shostak said the same thing about transmitting with extremely high power.
	We could do that, of course, but he thinks it would be Yes.
	We don't want to advertise our existence to people who are much more advanced than us
	and whose intentions we cannot fathom at the present time.
	All right, let's move on to dark matter. You began to mention that and nobody has explained to me,
	you have I know in the past, but I've never quite fully comprehended and it's very difficult to
	comprehend what in the world dark matter is.
	It's a phrase thrown around a lot now, and I don't think people really understand what it is.
	Okay, well, when we took high school chemistry, it was so simple.
	The universe is made out of a hundred different kinds of atoms, starting with hydrogen, going to helium, all the way up to uranium, and a few elements beyond that.
	Right.
	And everywhere we looked in the heavens with our instruments, we just picked up radiation from those hundred elements.
	But there was a problem.
	And the problem is that if you look at our Milky Way galaxy, it spins too fast for its own good.
	If you look at Newton's Law of Motion, and you have a spinning galaxy, it should fly apart.
	Now, we've looked at hundreds of galaxies.
	They all spin too fast for their own good.
	They should fly apart.
	Therefore, something has to hold them together.
	And that's what dark matter is.
	And dark matter makes up, as we now know, about 95% of the mass of the universe.
	The universe is mainly dark.
	Okay.
	Professor, didn't people traditionally think that gravitational attraction kept things together?
	It does.
	So, the gravitational attraction of dark matter surrounding the Milky Way Galaxy is what keeps the Milky Way Galaxy from flying apart.
	And that's why we still have this beautiful Milky Way Galaxy at night.
	And we now realize there's something in addition to this invisible matter.
	This matter is invisible but has weight, by the way.
	If you looked at it, it would be invisible in your hand.
	If you dropped it on your foot, you'd probably feel it to say, ouch.
	Really?
	Yeah, it has weight.
	If you drop it, it would be like an anvil hitting your foot.
	But it's invisible.
	You can't see it.
	It's invisible matter.
	We now believe that 95% of the universe is dark.
	And just in the last year and a half, what's rocked the foundations of physics, everyone's talking about this in physics circles, is dark energy.
	Not only do we have dark matter, but we also have dark energy.
	Now, remember Nikola Tesla, the great genius who was the rival of Thomas Edison?
	Of course.
	Nikola Tesla not only gave us AC, not only did he gave us most of the dynamics of radio, but he also talked about energy from nothing.
	Yes.
	And people thought he was a crackpot, and some of his ideas were kind of strange.
	I have collected works, and some of his ideas were pretty strange.
	But he thought you could extract energy from nothing, and nothing had energy.
	Well, people laughed at him.
	Well, we don't quite laugh anymore.
	We now believe that there is a faint amount of energy contained in nothing.
	So nothing is really a misnomer?
	Yeah, nothing has something.
	There's a certain amount of energy associated with nothing called dark energy.
	Now, Einstein knew this.
	He played with it, but he threw it away.
	He thought it was just incredible that nothing could have energy.
	But now we know that if you take a look at the universe, the universe, in fact, is accelerating as it expands.
	This bubble that we talked about is accelerating.
	It will accelerate and eventually become a gigantic, very cold universe.
	Too cold to sustain any life.
	And dark energy is what's causing the acceleration.
	This dark energy is an anti-gravity.
	It pushes the galaxies away.
	We have the expansion to begin with.
	But the dark energy pushes the galaxies away.
	And that's why the universe is, in fact, is accelerating.
	Now, on one hand, it's kind of depressing.
	Realizing that trillions of years from now, we're all going to freeze to death.
	And that the temperature of the universe will approach absolute zero.
	It won't reach absolute zero, but get very close.
	And some people think that's the end of all Type 3s.
	That even a Type 4 would have to die.
	When the universe becomes that cold.
	Because even a Type 4 could not escape the bubble, right?
	However!
	However?
	However, if you really are Type 4, you are masters of space and time.
	You can manipulate dark energy.
	You can manipulate the energy of nothing.
	In which case, you may create a tiny little bubble like a life raft.
	A life raft to leave this larger bubble to search for other bubbles that are out there.
	So a Type 4 could get to a bubble?
	That's right.
	That's the hope.
	That intelligent life does not have to die when the universe dies.
	That a Type 4, being masters of space-time, just like Type 3 is a master of a galaxy, right?
	A Type 4 is a master of space itself.
	And they would essentially create a small bubble and, like a life raft, leave our bubble, which is too cold to have any kind of intelligent life, to find a warmer universe out there.
	And we think there is what is called a multiverse, a megaverse, a multiverse of bubbles out there, and we may be forced as a Type 4 to find a warmer universe out there, a universe which can, you know, be our new home, basically.
	And this, of course, is speculation.
	You know, we're not talking trillions of years into the future, but a trillion years is an awful long time to reach Type 4 status.
	It sure is.
	It only takes, like they said, perhaps 100,000 to a million years to reach Type III.
	That's incredible.
	To even contemplate that.
	That's amazing.
	And I'm still having trouble with... It's not really... If it's something, then it's not nothing.
	That's right.
	So it's not really reasonable to call it nothing.
	Yes.
	Between atoms.
	The space between atoms is usually called nothing, the vacuum.
	But now we know the space between vacuum Between atoms has energy.
	Okay.
	All right.
	I think I've got that.
	So it's something, anyway.
	That's right.
	All right, Doctor.
	Hold on.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	We will open up the fast blast coming out of this break.
	I'm Mark Bell.
	You don't laugh, but you know me.
	I'm in you.
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	I'm in you.
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	There's no other way to put it.
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	Nothing but a heartache can ever be taken.
	A heart that's been gone all the way.
	And there ain't no reason that I just can't win.
	There's a piece of me I want.
	And I can't give it in.
	I got a lot of soul to party.
	I got a lot of soul to party.
	To party all the way.
	Wanna take a ride?
	Well, call Art Bell from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	at 1-800-825-5033.
	First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	And to reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-825-5033.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Feld on the Premier Radio Network.
	Alright, the phone lines are open and so are the fast blast questions.
	This one not necessarily immediately relevant, but Steven in Rockport, Texas asks, Hey Art, if they'd scan the players at the Super Bowl, Would they have had enough players left to play the game?
	Oh, well.
	It's a rough game.
	It's a Type 0 game, but... But I still like it.
	Alright, uh, back again to Dr. Michio Kaku.
	And, uh, Doctor, a lot of people on the Sassblast thing we have here are asking if you have any idea What it or Ginger might be.
	You know, there's a million people wondering about that right now.
	Actually, millions.
	Right.
	In fact, it's reached a feverish pitch right now.
	My email is flooded with speculation.
	Everything from anti-gravity to replicators to transporters and things right out of Star Trek.
	Right.
	Personally, I think that the hype is so great now that it can't possibly live up to the hype.
	And I think people are going to be disappointed when we come back to Earth.
	It could be revolutionary in some sense, in a technical sense, but I think the hype is so great now that it's gone through the roof, and there's no way that they're going to be able to match the hype.
	Now, it could be, for example, a new way of hooking up circuitry, so that we have increased memory, increased speed.
	That's well within the realm of technical possibility.
	Let me read you very quickly one speculation about what it is.
	Somebody who claims they know.
	They say, quote, I.T.
	stands for Inductance Transport Vehicle, a neat mobile little gadget that may eliminate the need for cars in the future.
	However, if there are a large number of vehicles operating in the same area, it does require magnetic tracks to be installed to prevent the possibility of collisions or magnetic interference with other I.T.s.
	The breakthrough technology that runs I.T.
	is G.I.N.G.E.R., the Geomagnetic Inductance Neutralizing Gasoline Engine Replacement.
	This clean, quiet, inexpensive engine will be the real money maker.
	Whether the IT becomes popular or not, IT could be used extensively in defense, shipping, and many other industries.
	Well, if it uses magnetism, it has to have enormous quantities of current.
	Anyone who's taken high school physics knows you need a dry cell battery to get a little bit of magnetism in your electromagnet.
	You need a lot of energy, a lot of battery power in order to get magnetism that would allow you to float.
	Magnetism that allows you to sense other vehicles.
	And that's one of the problems with the electric car.
	The weak point of the electric car is the battery.
	That's why, you know, Toyota and Honda are going for the hybrid that uses part gasoline, part electric batteries.
	Right.
	So I tend to doubt that it's purely magnetic simply because of the power consumption.
	The power consumption would be enormous to have magnetic fields sufficient to give you levitation, sensing, any of the things that are mentioned in that speculation.
	All right.
	Well, let's take a few phone calls as well.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Michio Kaku.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Art.
	This is John at Scottsdale.
	Good morning, Dr. Kaku.
	Nice to talk to you both.
	Dr. Kaku, I have a quick little comment and then a question.
	Sure.
	First of all, it is with the greatest humility and respect I'm not trying to be disparaging.
	I'm listening to you, and I think you're kind of giving old homo sapiens maybe a little bit of a slam.
	I think that we're capable of more, and I think that you're being a little pessimistic about our options for the future and the direction that we'll head in.
	We want to live.
	We want to survive, I think, before anything, and I don't think we'll go too far along a Well, I think that the projections I give are more realistic.
	and religious leaders to the detriment of the rest of us.
	I think most of us are past that, and it's a matter of politics realizing that it's dead
	and to quit kicking and such that will free us.
	All right, pessimistic, doctor, or realistic?
	Well, I think that the projections I give are more realistic.
	If you take a look at what happened before World War I or World War II, today we say,
	how could civilization have tolerated all these dictatorships, all this warmongering, all this
	war machine building.
	It was obvious there was going to be war.
	Why didn't they do anything?
	We're intelligent creatures.
	And I think in the future, when they look back at us, they'll ask the same question.
	They saw global warming coming.
	They saw the scarcity of water, the pollution of the oceans.
	They saw the South Pole breaking up.
	I mean, you've got to be blind not to see the South Pole gradually breaking up huge chunks of isocytes of Delaware.
	But why didn't they do anything about it?
	So in the same way that we look back at civilizations before World War I and World War II, and we say they fell asleep, there was no way they could miss the rise of Hitler, for example.
	Everyone knew that Hitler was spoiling for a fight, right?
	Our children are going to wonder, how come we missed it when it came to all the danger signs?
	The population explosion, The question of global warming, the question of pollution, how could we miss it?
	I think Hitler in his time was a first world politician and represented the thinking of first world peoples.
	In the 50 or so years since then, we've moved to where such people are third world.
	And, you know, on the fringe, on the minority.
	So I don't see Hitler happening again in any worldwide or significant way.
	Well, you're right, and that is very dangerous.
	I'm not trying to downplay that.
	In the future, it's going to be relatively easy for a poor nation to build an atomic bomb.
	I mean, look at Pakistan.
	I respect the Pakistanis, but their government is extremely poor.
	It's one of the poorest nations on the planet Earth.
	And there they are, building up a stockpile of perhaps 20, 30 atomic bombs.
	And I think that's a very dangerous role model for smaller nations, that they'll squander any resources they have to reach for the atomic bomb.
	And you saw the press clips from Pakistan and India.
	They cheered.
	They cheered to have a Hindu bomb.
	They cheered to have a Muslim bomb, right?
	Well, these are the death rattles of politics, I think, on Earth.
	The question I would have for you would be, the greatest computer, I think, is between our ears.
	And, in fact, we only use 10% of that.
	I believe that we've learned enough to seriously postulate that we are genetically engineered creatures and that a potential 90% is waiting for us to unravel if we can figure out the genetics of it and repair the damage or unleash the potential.
	So I think our first priority should be to do that.
	And hyperdimensional aspects, I think, would help us to conquer some of the problems you present with You're from your type 0 to type 1.
	The scientific viewpoint seems to be one that is very familiar with flatland, knows it in
	infinite detail, but hesitates to look up or down.
	I think our first priority should be to fix ourselves so we might even know what we're
	capable of.
	What do you think about that?
	Well, I definitely agree that we only use a fraction of our total capability.
	However, I think genetic engineering to increase that capability is a little bit premature.
	At the present time, we can only manipulate single genes, like one gene at a time.
	And we don't know all the thousands of genes that are involved in the architecture of the human brain.
	So I think it's quite a year, quite many years away before we can tinker with anything as complicated as the human brain.
	Doctor, do you think we are genetically engineered Well, we're genetically engineered in the sense that evolution gave us the capabilities to survive in the forest, in the wilderness, to be able to reason, communicate.
	We have opposable thumbs, we have stereo vision, and we have speech, a cultural language.
	Those are the three ingredients that any civilization in outer space would have to have to create a large brain.
	Well, I'm sure you saw 2001, right?
	That's right.
	Do you rule out the possibility of genetic tampering at some point?
	Well, it's possible.
	I mean, we now know enough about the human genome to think that alien creatures in outer space may also have to get that out, too.
	In which case, genetic engineering may be possible.
	What I like about 2001 is the fact that they placed this higher civilization on the moon.
	And that, of course, is the ideal place to put up a listing post if there was a passing Type 3 civilization.
	Oh, you know, therein is a very good point.
	We went to the moon a long time ago now.
	In terms of, oh, if you think of 100 years to Type 1, our trip to the moon was a long time ago and we have not yet been back.
	Why not?
	Uh, well, because of politics, of course, but you see, the movie 2001 talks about the transition between Type 0, Type 1.
	Right.
	When you are a Type 1 civilization, you have an operating moon base, in which case you can make contact with a listing post set up by a passing Type 3 civilization.
	No, all this was to be explained in the beginning of the movie.
	In the beginning of the movie they were talking heads, scientists who would explain the fact that yes, the moon is the ideal listening post for a passing Type 3 civilization and we are attaining Type 1 status and we will have moon bases to make contact with these things.
	However, in the last few minutes before the movie went to production, Kubrick cut the first five minutes of his own
	film.
	Is that right?
	That's right. That's why the movie became super mystical.
	It's actually the most scientifically correct encounter with a type 3 civilization.
	He cuts the first five minutes of his own film.
	And so all these astrophysicists who are going to talk about encounters of alien life and explain this whole thing
	were cut.
	I wonder if that footage exists somewhere.
	It must exist someplace.
	In fact, a few of my friends were the people actually interviewed in the first five minutes of the film.
	And they were going through this whole process of explaining how the most accurate rendition of an encounter with an alien species would go this way.
	And if you think about it, yeah, if you're a passing type 3 civilization, the moon is the ideal place to leave a listing post because there's no erosion.
	There's no weather.
	There's no flooding on the moon.
	There's no atmosphere on the moon.
	And you can scan the Earth for millions of years with an outpost on the moon.
	And a Type 1 civilization is interesting.
	They're not interested in Type 0s.
	Type 0s are a dime a dozen out there, probably.
	They're interested in Type 1.
	And so they essentially let the Type 1 civilization come to them.
	It's sort of like a rite of passage, like a bar mitzvah or a puberty rite.
	You have to be Type 1 to have an operating moon base.
	Once you're Type 1, you can have an operating moon base and make contact with a Type 3.
	All right.
	Onward.
	Ease to the Rockies.
	You're on the air with Dr. Michio Kaku.
	Hi.
	Hey, good morning, gentlemen.
	Good morning.
	Where are you?
	I'm from Dallas.
	All right.
	After doing a lot of research on the internet, doing searches on the zero-point energy and gravity, I think I've come up with an understanding for myself of how gravity may work, and I would like to know what you think about it.
	Okay, well you could be the next Einstein then, if you like.
	I'm just intensely curious about it.
	I don't have enough mathematic ability to do these things.
	Well, that's two of us, sir.
	I'm also intensely curious, but I don't understand what gravity does.
	I don't understand exactly how it does it.
	I think it relates to mass, correct?
	That's right, and the bending of space around that mass, like putting a marble or a rock on a bed sheet.
	Uh, the rock bends the bedsheet, and any marble that spins around the rock appears as if the rock has a force, which grabs the marble.
	But it's actually the bending of the bedsheet.
	It's an illusion.
	Gravity, in some sense, is an optical illusion.
	It's caused by the bending of the fabric of the bedsheet, just like energy bends the fabric of space and time.
	Alright, you're kind of losing me.
	In other words, we walk around on Earth, we have weight, we are What is holding our feet to the earth, and why you're sitting in your chair right now, rather than being flung into outer space, is because the earth warps the space around you.
	And as a consequence, just like a marble going toward a rock that depresses a bed sheet, you are going toward the earth.
	So it's an illusion.
	It's an optical illusion that there is a force.
	It's called gravity that is pulling you.
	It's really space that's pushing you.
	There's really no pull of gravity.
	There's the push of space.
	Space itself is pushing you down on your chair.
	Then it's not the mass itself of Earth?
	The mass of the Earth creates the bending of space.
	But it's not the primary... The bending of space then pushes you down on the chair.
	So the reason why you're sitting on your chair is because the space is pushing you down, and what's causing that is the Earth.
	So there's no force.
	There's no force of gravity.
	It's an illusion.
	That's incredible.
	I think I understand.
	I think I can picture that.
	Right.
	So the next time you see a rock depress a bedsheet, that is the primal picture that Einstein had to understand why gravity, in some sense, The force of gravity is an illusion.
	It's really the bending of space that gives the illusion that there's a force.
	If you're an ant on a bed sheet, I mean, if you're an ant on a crumpled sheet of paper, an ant on a crumpled sheet of paper would say that there's a force preventing the ant from walking in a straight line.
	No, we laugh with the ant.
	We say, you're a stupid ant.
	You're not experiencing a force.
	You're walking on a crumpled sheet of paper.
	It's space itself.
	It's the paper which pushes the ant.
	Yeah, an ant would think that.
	That's right, so that's called gravity.
	Is physics sort of stuck the same way as the ant occasionally?
	In a lot of areas of physics, doctors... Yes, appearance and reality are always different.
	If appearance and reality were the same, then there would be no necessity for science.
	Your common sense would explain the whole universe, right?
	So, I always like to think of us as ants trying to probe the mystery to the forest.
	We have a whole forest of goodies, a whole forest of phenomena around us, and we're ants that's exploring things, realizing that our point of view may not be the point of view of the forest, or other creatures in the forest.
	That's right, all right.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Michio Kaku.
	Hi.
	Hello, Mr. Kaku.
	I have a question.
	I'd like to use your education and your brain because I lack the ability to come up with this equation that will inform the question.
	My question is that, theoretically speaking, if you were to postulate this into a mathematical equation, considering our technology and the number of planets out there that could support Class I civilizations, Is it a statistical improbability that we have not found any other intelligent life, nor any other intelligent life found us?
	Alright.
	Well, that's an interesting question.
	If you believe in what is called Drake's Equation, and I understand that Frank Drake has been on this radio program, then you come to the conclusion that about 10,000, 10,000 planets in the galaxy harbor intelligent beings just like us, about 10,000.
	And then you know the density of the galaxy.
	You can calculate, therefore, that the nearest star system that should have intelligent life is not that far away.
	Just a few hundred light years.
	And that's the stars you see at night.
	The stars you see at night are about 50 to 300 light years away.
	Therefore, among the stars you see at night, perhaps one of them has intelligent beings on them.
	Okay?
	My attitude is that they're probably so advanced That they don't use radio, television, the way we use it.
	And they've gone far beyond that.
	And therefore, we're looking at the wrong frequency.
	They may use all frequencies.
	They may use a different frequency.
	So, it's no accident that even if there are 10,000 intelligent planets, beings in the galaxy, even if they're only 100 to 300 light years away, for me, it's no accident that we haven't picked up any radiation from them.
	Professor, as you mentioned, we now use radio and television.
	We're using it at the moment.
	How long do you think we will continue to do so, i.e., when do we go to the next phase?
	Well, I think we'll use it for quite a while because it's very cheap, okay?
	However, once we start to have colonies in outer space, we may start to use laser beams.
	Laser beams are more economical because you don't scatter the radiation in all directions, right?
	You have a narrow beam, for example, on the moon.
	You can conceivably build a moon base that would then shoot a very directed pulse of radiation toward a colony of colonists on Mars.
	And if you were a being on a passing asteroid, you'd never pick up the emission.
	You would never see anything at all, because it's a laser beam pulsing from the moon to Mars, giving us communication with a colony on Mars.
	So here's a simple example of the way in which you may not want to use radio.
	Radio is very cheap, that's why we use it, okay?
	But it's also very wasteful, because all the radiation goes scattering in all directions.
	We may want to use, you know, stimulated emission, lasers, rather than using radio.
	But who knows?
	You know, we're talking about a civilization like a Type I a hundred years in advance.
	A Type II is already a few thousand years in advance of ours.
	And so their energy supplies and demands are enormous, and they may simply use a different frequency.
	Amen.
	All right, Doctor.
	Hold it right there.
	We'll be right back.
	I'm Art Bell.
	A very old friend, came by today.
	Cause he was telling everyone in town, all the laws that he just found.
	And to read the name, of his latest friend.
	of his age.
	Cause he was telling everyone around, all the lonesome he's just found.
	And Marie's the name of his latest friend.
	He taught him fortune, and I heard him say, that she has the longest, quiet hair, the prettiest ring
	around her neck.
	Quiet baby, and the rain is falling.
	Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First-time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	The Wild Card Line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	And to call out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them
	dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nile.
	That's right, and the phone lines are open, as is the ability for you to ask a question on the Fast Blast, unscreened Fast Blast questions.
	By going to the website.
	Explore the website, as a matter of fact.
	Take a look at the new webcam and comment on that for me.
	I've got a brand new capture card that I'm proud of.
	A larger image.
	In fact, there's a whole ton of new stuff on the website right now.
	Take a look and tell me what you think.
	Well, keep what you think.
	We're, uh, you know, it's a work in progress.
	Anyway, Dr. Michio Kaku is here.
	He's my guest.
	We're talking physics.
	He is one of our nation's greatest theoretical physicists.
	Physicists really, uh, I guess, uh, kind of Kind of a guy that can explain things so that most of us can grasp them.
	I'm still not altogether sure about gravity and the push, but we'll work on that one.
	For the rest of it, I'm pretty clear.
	All right, back to New York City and Dr. Michio Kaku.
	Doctor, welcome back.
	Let's talk about dimensions for a moment.
	Sure.
	There are... How many dimensions do we imagine or know there are now?
	Well, of course we know there are four dimensions, three dimensions of space, one dimension of time, but the rage of physics is that we live in a ten, perhaps eleven dimensional universe, that there are perhaps six unseen dimensions, dimensions that hover around us that we can't see because we're too primitive and we don't have enough energy to access these higher dimensions.
	Why do we believe that?
	Well, if you try to construct the theory of everything, the theory that alluded Einstein to the last 30 years of his life, if you want to, quote, read the mind of God, as Stephen Hawking likes to put it, you realize that in three puny dimensions, there's not enough room to put all the forces together into one equation, one inch long.
	That's what we want.
	An equation, one inch long, that summarizes all the physical phenomena of the universe.
	From the Big Bang, to black holes, to quasars, to the creation of the Earth, the DNA, the people, maybe even love.
	Now, in three dimensions, there's not enough room.
	You try to put the pieces of the nuclear force, with the electromagnetic force, with gravity together, and they don't fit.
	But if you go into hyperspace, then these pieces of the puzzle just collapse.
	They fit together.
	Think of a beautiful diamond, for example, that exists in three dimensions and shatter it with a tremendous explosion.
	If you try to put those pieces together in two dimensions, in flatland, the pieces don't fit.
	Right.
	No matter how you put these pieces of diamond together, they don't fit in two dimensions.
	If you go to hyperspace, the third dimension, then all these pieces fit together and you get this beautiful diamond.
	That's why we're going to hyperspace.
	In hyperspace, even though we can't measure it, because the energy would be the Planck energy, a fantastic energy that perhaps only type 3 civilizations can play with, at that energy, the fundamental forces of the universe, like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle, just fall together.
	All of a sudden, the quark model.
	All of a sudden, Einstein's theory.
	All of a sudden, radiation, the weak nuclear force, all these forces just sort of tumbled together into one cosmic super force that we think existed at the beginning of time.
	Now, of course, to really test the theory, you would have to recreate creation.
	You would have to recreate the Big Bang.
	We're talking about energies only seen since the Incident of Creation, or energies that a Type 3 civilization may play with.
	We have no idea where that energy came from, right?
	Well, the leading theory is that the universe came from nothing.
	Believe it or not, the total energy of the universe is probably zero.
	Gravitational energy tends to be negative.
	Matter energy tends to be positive.
	And we now believe if you add the two together, you get zero.
	Well, the earlier nothing you talked about really was something.
	So, in other words, a dark matter really is something, and the word nothing is a misnomer.
	In this case, are we truly talking about nothing?
	No, we're talking about the sum total of everything.
	You add up everything, including dark energy, and you come up with the fact that the total energy of the universe could actually be zero.
	So it may actually require no effort to create a universe.
	Universes may pop out of nothing all the time.
	This nothing, of course, is now hyperspace nothing.
	We're talking about the nothing of ten dimensions.
	And so in ten-dimensional hyperspace, it could be boiling.
	There could be bubbles popping in and out of existence all the time.
	Now, at the present time, most physicists believe that these bubbles that pop out of nothing have a big crunch almost immediately.
	They have a big bang and then they have a big crunch almost immediately and they don't live very long.
	However, sometimes some of these universes have just the right characteristics so they have a big bang and then just keep on going.
	They just inflate and keep on going.
	So our universe is special in that sense.
	And we probably co-exist with other universes but these other universes probably have a big crunch and they don't last very long.
	However, That then leads us to conclude that perhaps one of these days our universe may spin off a child, may spin off a daughter universe, may butt, and that of course creates speculation that perhaps our universe has butted off another universe in the past.
	If that were to occur, I'm familiar with this, if that were to occur, If we were to bud another one, what would we notice?
	Any idea?
	Well, we would probably notice the black hole forming and energy being sucked into this black hole and then being sucked right out into this twin universe that is budding off our universe.
	What would the consequences be for Earth?
	Well, not much, because these black holes are very far away, thank goodness.
	Okay?
	Now, remember that our universe itself is probably a black hole.
	Our universe satisfies what is called the Schwarzschild equation, and which simply means that our universe, you can't leave it, it's a bubble.
	But if it's a bubble, maybe it butted off another bubble.
	Now, we're not sure about this.
	Of course, this is speculation.
	But to test the theory, we would have to really be probably a type 3 civilization.
	A type 3 civilization could play with black holes.
	And they could probably create them in a laboratory and see whether or not a budding takes place to create a little teeny baby universe in a laboratory.
	Aren't we playing with that now?
	Well, yes and no.
	At Brookhaven National Laboratory, which is not that far from where I'm sitting right now, there was a letter to the editor of Scientific America saying that the Rick Padmasmasher would create a black hole and suck in Long Island, not to mention the planet Earth itself.
	And it created a firestorm of publicity.
	The Sunday London Times carried that letter to the editor.
	It was just a letter to the editor, right?
	Yes.
	However, if you take a look at the mathematics, We are talking about the energy of the type 3.
	3, before you can begin to access the Planck energy.
	The Planck energy, that's when space-time becomes unstable.
	Bubbles begin to form.
	Holes begin to form in space-time.
	Now, we're type 0.
	Our most powerful atom smasher cannot even create energy that cosmic rays create all the time on the planet Earth.
	We're being bathed by cosmic rays that are more energetic than anything created by our machines.
	Our machines are puny compared to what's required to create a black hole.
	So, don't, don't, you don't have to worry tonight that you're going to be sucked in.
	Alright, but going back to the Big Bang for a second, you said it probably came from nothing.
	Nothing, hyperspatial nothing, right.
	We do have to talk a little bit about the possibility of creation at that point, don't we?
	In other words, creation is equally possible with anything else you can imagine?
	That's right.
	There could be genesis happening all the time, even as we speak.
	Universes might be being created.
	And every time we see a black hole, and we've documented now 38, that's the latest tally now, 38 black holes in outer space, they may actually be gateways to a baby universe out there.
	In fact, that was the title of Stephen Hawking's latest book, Black Holes and Baby Universes.
	So this is being considered very carefully by physicists, that this could be a model for creation itself.
	That our universe may have budded, or our universe may have simply popped into existence out of nothing, because it doesn't take much energy to create a universe.
	So then, another dimension could be Very close to us.
	That's right, and that's what's causing an enormous amount of articles in the New York Times, Time Magazine, Music Magazine.
	There could be another universe perhaps a millimeter away from our universe.
	Now, remember the novel The Invisible Man?
	Yes.
	If you read H.G.
	Wells' novel, how did the man become invisible?
	Well, he was blown into the fourth dimension, hyperspace, and he hovered about an inch off our universe.
	Now think about it.
	If you're hovering an inch off our universe, you're invisible.
	Light would go right underneath you.
	You could look down and see our universe, but people in our universe couldn't see you.
	And so that's why he was invisible in the novel, The Invisible Man.
	Would there be, conceivably, another universe as populated as this one and very much like or very much different from this one?
	Well, we don't know.
	However, the speculation is that if there's another bubble just a millimeter away from our bubble, we would feel its gravity.
	The other universe would be invisible, just like The Invisible Man.
	So it could be a paradigm for dark matter.
	Of course, this is still wild speculation, but some of the people at MIT are seriously proposing this as a model for dark matter.
	Dark matter is invisible, but it has gravity, just like another alternate universe that's about a millimeter away from ours would be invisible because light goes underneath it.
	But it would have gravity, because gravity goes across hyperspace.
	Gotcha.
	But I'm wondering, what's the greatest likelihood?
	If we were to pop into it, would we be lonely looking back at this and invisible, or would we be in a completely alternate place?
	Well, we would be in a completely alternate place.
	It's not clear what the laws of physics would be.
	Currently, we think that the meta-laws of physics, the laws of all these bubbles, is something called super-string theory, the theory of 10-dimensional hyperspace.
	So, we think that the meta-theory that governs all these bubbles is string theory.
	However, there are many solutions of string theory, millions of them, each one perhaps corresponding to one of these bubbles.
	Now, in these other bubbles, They may look quite different from ours.
	They may have protons that decay very rapidly, so there's no DNA.
	However, maybe there's a universe that is just one quantum event different from our universe.
	Maybe a cosmic ray went through Hitler's mother, and Hitler was never born because of one cosmic ray that caused a miscarriage in Hitler's mother.
	That universe is only one quantum event different from our universe, except they never had World War II.
	And so it developed an entirely different track.
	Similar situation, but different track.
	That's right.
	And in fact, if you watch the first installment of Sliders, where they entertain this possibility, a young boy reads a book to get the idea for sliding.
	That's my book, Hyperspace.
	So, Hyperspace eventually became the spawn of a TV series.
	Were you informed of that ahead of the beginning of the series?
	No, no.
	No, afterwards?
	Afterwards.
	All right.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Dr. Mitchum Haku.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	It's Julie Culling from Ontario, Canada.
	Hi, Julie.
	Hi, Eric.
	Listen, I've listened to your show forever.
	I love your music and I love your voice.
	Thank you.
	And I love having you back.
	I've listened to you forever, but this is my first time calling.
	Okay.
	Dr. Kaku, I think it's a very interesting show.
	I do believe in science.
	Oh, good.
	In the basic elements.
	The most I have is from high school.
	That's about it.
	But listening to you now, I hear so much about investing all the knowledge of all these great minds into things like computers and the internet, etc., etc.
	But, you know, I wish that they would use it to fix this planet.
	You know?
	Stop evolving, if possible.
	Mend the ozone.
	Clean up our waters.
	Something encouraging.
	You know, every now and then you hear something.
	Like about solar cars.
	I think it was years ago you heard about it.
	I think it was fission.
	Well, yes, we've always hoped for fission.
	Yeah, but I mean, are they still researching into that?
	All right.
	Well, in other words, she's asking, Doctor, why we're not doing a more positive science with regard to our own Earth?
	It's a really good question.
	You know, you talk about the Delaware's eyes, icebergs breaking off and so forth.
	Well, science simply observes.
	And it's up to the people and politicians to do something about it.
	And we scientists are sort of like canaries in the mineshaft.
	We sense the presence of gas and we alert people.
	And that's why scientists now are alerting people that the South Pole is gradually beginning to break up much faster than previously thought.
	The polarized cap of the North Pole is 50% thinner than it was just 40 years ago.
	That's exactly what she was saying.
	Scientists may be the canaries, but sometimes they also might be the dynamite in the hole.
	Yeah, possibly.
	However, we as citizens have to take responsibility of doing something about it, of translating these warnings into legislation.
	And unfortunately, that's not happening.
	The politicians just want to get elected every two years.
	They see their paychecks, they see who votes for them, and unfortunately people will consider voting for a politician that takes care of their sewer system before a politician that takes care of the breakup of the North Pole and the South Pole.
	So I think that the narrowness is going to take many, many years, but we don't have that many more years left.
	Well, we don't deal so much with things on a global scale, do we?
	In other words, we have the UN, but it's not particularly effective, nor does it direct politically where the monies are spent and what's done.
	So, there's nothing really being done on a global scale, is there?
	Yes, that's right.
	And you know, the United States has the potential, because it's the only remaining superpower on the Earth.
	But unfortunately, it is sort of like dragging its feet on the question of global warming, and there's a reason for that.
	Global warming is created by carbon dioxide, and the United States produces 25% of the world's carbon dioxide.
	And that translates into jobs.
	And so a lot of politicians are hesitant to rein in oil and fossil fuels and stuff like that, because it'll throw oil workers out of jobs, and plus Exxon and those oil companies will have decreased profits.
	So, you know, politicians are very wary about doing anything about the 25% of the world's carbon dioxide that is produced right here in the United States, which is very unfortunate.
	And that's why small nations like, you know, nations in the Pacific are screaming mad at us because in a few more decades they're not going to be around anymore.
	Sea levels will rise to the point, in fact they're rising already.
	Sea levels will rise to the point where island nations are completely inundated.
	Large parts of Bangladesh may be literally wiped off the face of the Earth if sea levels rise.
	New Orleans is below sea level for the most part.
	We may not have a Mardi Gras in the future if we have storms that hurl water over the dike system and the irrigation system of New Orleans.
	So, you know, it comes back to us.
	New York, San Francisco, we could be inundated by monster storms.
	with rising sea level and with the increased power of hurricanes.
	Already our weather is turning on us.
	If you look at the latest issue of US News and World Report, the front page says,
	Scary weather. Scientists issue a startling forecast of global climate change.
	So they're beginning to wake up.
	Slowly, I think the public has to then translate that into legislation
	to begin the process of converting to more efficient cars, weeding ourselves away from oil and coal and getting into
	hydrogen fuel cells and getting into solar power and wind power and renewable
	resources.
	How long do we have?
	Well, I think global warming now is accelerating much faster than previously thought.
	Five years ago, people made projections that we're still, oh, 50 years away from any problem.
	Five years later, who would have thought that we would see a 50% decrease in the polar ice cap region of the North Pole?
	I mean, who would have thought that we're now talking about A timescale for the breakup of large chunks of Antarctica.
	I never thought I'd see that in my lifetime.
	And already, on the web, scientists are beginning to do calculations now as to the rate of this in a South Pole.
	This is incredible.
	So then our science progresses exponentially, but the degradation of our planet is also exponential.
	I wonder which one arrives first, the problem or the... That's exactly right.
	You see, it's a race against time.
	For us to reach Type 1, we have to be mature.
	Mature as a planetary civilization, right?
	But on the other hand, we have all these bickering interests and different groups that have different agendas.
	It's a race against time to see whether we can outrace what's happening with global warming, what's happening with pollution, with the population explosion, what have you.
	It's a race against time.
	And it's not clear who's going to win.
	It's not clear who the winner is going to be.
	Or is it clear?
	And are you just trying not to sound pessimistic?
	And I, you know, I understand.
	Personally, I'm kind of pessimistic.
	I don't mind the word.
	Realistic as well.
	I just, I don't think our chances are that high.
	Well, personally, I think what's going to happen is for the next 10 years, nothing is going to happen.
	Politicians will simply, you know, feed at the trough.
	will have, you know, politics as usual. And then we're going to have over the next 10
	years more severe hurricanes, more severe degradation of the polarized regions, rising
	sea level, until it becomes unbearable, okay? At that point, people are going to be screaming
	mad. They're going to rise up and they're going to demand action. That's right. Unfortunately,
	that's not going to happen. Ten years of kind of sitting around.
	All right, I think I've got it.
	Stay right there, Doctor.
	We'll be right back.
	Bottom of the hour, Dr. Michio Kaku, the author of Visions, is my guest, and we'll try and get some contact information on the air when we get back, in case you want to send him an email or however it is you communicate this day and age.
	Hey John Marthel and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	This is the Coast to Coast AM.
	Wanna take a ride?
	Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
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	This is Coast to Coast AM, Art Bell.
	It is indeed, that's me.
	My guest is Dr. Michio Kaku.
	Professor Kaku is the author of Visions and so many more.
	If you'd like to read more about Dr. Kaku and what's available to read, You can go to my website.
	We've got a link up there to his brand new website.
	And we'll see what other information we can get from him in a moment.
	Contact information.
	Stay right where you are.
	I don't know.
	It's almost Hawaii Five-O-ish, isn't it?
	That sound.
	But it's alright.
	Once again, Dr. Kaku, obviously you have a website.
	Is there a way people can contact you by email?
	That's right.
	First, the website address is www.mkaku.org.
	That's M-K-A-K-U.
	One word.
	M-K-A-K-U.org.
	And my email address is mkaku at AOL.com.
	That's easy.
	That's very easy.
	mkaku.aol.com, actually.
	Now, I have, of course, a scientific address, but please don't use that, because I use that for scientific correspondence.
	Well, then you better not give it out.
	Right.
	But my AOL address is open to the public.
	Okay.
	mkaku.aol.com.
	Very good.
	Here's a question from Patrick in New Orleans, Louisiana, who asks, what would be your solution To the world's overpopulation, and how serious a problem is it?
	Well, believe it or not, the problem in Europe and Japan is underpopulation.
	In those areas, the birth rate is plunging from 2.0 children per family down to about 1.5 children per family.
	And so the population of Europe and Japan, their population is aging, but there are very few children coming up the ranks.
	And that's why they need immigration to keep the factories and the service sector going.
	And that, of course, is creating tension in Europe with regards to immigration.
	But on a global scale.
	But on a global scale.
	Even in areas like India and Pakistan, the birth rate is no longer 12 or 8 children per family.
	It's dropping down to 3 or 4 children per family.
	And once it hits 2.1 children per family, then you have a steady state situation.
	So we are going to see a population explosion, mainly in, for example, India, Pakistan, China is beginning to reign in its population, and a population implosion in Europe and Japan.
	In fact, in Japan, it's a national pastime to calculate when the last Japanese will walk the face of the earth.
	Because the population is dropping so fast now in Japan.
	Now, in America, our native-born population, its population rate is also below replenishment level.
	However, because of immigration, We're at about 2.2 children per family.
	So the United States will have a healthy economy into the 21st century because young people want to work and they want to do things and we're going to have lots of young people in the United States.
	However, in other areas of the world, like India, we're going to have massive poverty.
	We're going to have lots of people with very strained resources.
	And it doesn't look very good for areas like that.
	But China, on the other hand, you know, because of forced restriction on the number of children you can have, has restrained its population explosion.
	So I think we're going to see population unevenly explode in the future.
	But just remember that not all of them can become middle class.
	Not all of them are going to have two cars in the garage, access to Kentucky Fried Chicken, and as much beef as they want, and air conditioning.
	That would strain the Earth's resources, which means we have to be much more frugal in the way we use energy on this planet.
	We have to be much more careful of waste.
	We can't afford to have You know, six billion middle-class people throwing away diapers and throwing away all their used goods, because where are we going to put all that garbage?
	Well, yes, but take my attitude, for example.
	I live near Death Valley.
	My attitude is, let them have fans.
	I need air conditioning.
	And that's going to be pretty much across the globe, isn't it?
	Right, well, people are going to want refrigerators and air conditioners.
	And most humans do not have refrigerators, telephones, or the conveniences that we take for granted, like, you know, running hot water, for example.
	But I guess the question is, as you have described, Is the population going to be reduced sufficiently, eventually, so that the overpopulation problem is not a factor in our demise?
	Okay, the best projection, and in my book, Visions, I always interview the best people in each field, the best projection is by 2100, the world's population will double to about 11 billion people.
	And it'll probably stabilize because the world's greatest contraceptive, The greatest contraceptive known to science is prosperity.
	Once peasants become middle class, they no longer want to have 12 children.
	Because they have 12 children because most of them die in poverty and the rest are your social security, your pension plan, right?
	People in the third world literally give birth to their pension plan because there is no pension plan in many poor countries.
	That's why they have kids.
	But once you become middle class, then you want to have one and a half children.
	And that's what happened to Japan.
	That's what happened, of course, in Europe in the last century.
	And that's what's happening to China now, as they become more and more middle class.
	And as the world becomes middle class, they're going to want to have one and a half children, not twelve, ten children.
	And that means that by the year 2100, as we approach a Type I civilization, assuming we make it to Type I status unscratched, then the population of the world will gradually stabilize to around 11 billion.
	And the big question is, can we tolerate that many people?
	Is that supportable?
	Well, with the ice chunks breaking off, with the ice thinning, with the ozone problems and all the rest of it, what's the answer to that?
	Well, I think in principle, we can tolerate 11 billion people.
	The question is, what kind of lifestyle are they going to live?
	We don't want to have 11 billion poor people and a tiny fraction of rich people.
	We want to make sure that productive lives are not wasted as we head toward a type 1 civilization.
	So I'm optimistic in one sense.
	I'm optimistic that as the world becomes more middle class, that the world's population will stabilize.
	However, if it stabilizes at too high a level, we may be consuming resources so rapidly that, again, it exacerbates the greenhouse effect and water pollution and all the other problems that we see with smog and pollution on the planet Earth right now.
	So it's a race against time.
	You know, on one hand, we have the movement to educate ourselves with the internet to become more
	connected, a movement to rein in war-like tendencies.
	But on the other hand, we have this rapacious desire to burn fossil fuels, to build weapons,
	and so it's a race against time to see which is going to dominate by the year 2100.
	All right, Jonathan of Encino asks, Could the God of the Bible be an interdimensional person?
	Well, that has provoked much speculation over the last 100 years.
	100 years ago, when mathematicians talked about the fourth dimension, theologians jumped on it.
	Because by that time, people had telescopes.
	And we realized there was no heaven up there.
	No, they didn't see a throne room.
	They didn't see, you know, Charlton Heston up there in outer space.
	You couldn't see them with a telescope.
	And so many people began to disbelieve the concept of heaven.
	And so many theologians said, well, if heaven doesn't exist in the third dimension out of space, maybe heaven's in the fourth dimension, or maybe in hyperspace.
	Now, if you are in hyperspace looking down on our world, you do have the power of a god.
	You have the power to walk through walls.
	You have the power to see through enclosed safes and enclosed containers.
	You have the ability to reach the people's guts and perform surgery without cutting their skin.
	You can open up packages without breaking open the wrapping.
	You have the power of a god.
	You can disappear, reappear at will, which of course is commonplace when we look down on ants.
	When we look down on ants on a two-dimensional plane, we're like gods to them.
	We can scan their entire universe.
	We can appear, disappear like magic by putting our finger down in their world.
	And so in principle, if you are a hyper being looking down on our puny universe, You would have the God of the Bible.
	Now, I'm not saying that there is a God of the Bible.
	I'm just saying that, in principle, the miracles that we sometimes attribute to supernatural beings and whatever are compatible with the powers of a super being.
	However, my point is that the energy necessary to do that is the Planck energy, and that's the energy of a Type 3 civilization.
	In your mind, and this is a hard question which you can reject if you wish, how likely is the God of the Bible?
	Well, it's hard to say.
	You know, Einstein thought there were two kinds of gods.
	One was the god of intervention.
	The god of prayer.
	The personal god that parted the water.
	The god that turned, you know, feeded people with fish and with bread.
	The god of Isaac, Moses, and Jacob.
	And then there was the god of harmony.
	The god of Leibniz.
	The god of Spinoza.
	And Einstein leaned toward the second God, the God of Harmony, that he believed the universe was so gorgeous, beautiful, so simple, and who could believe that all the equations of the universe could be summarized in just a handful of equations you can put on a sheet of paper?
	That there must be a God.
	But not the God of Intervention, not a personal God that answers prayers and gives you a bicycle if you pray for a bicycle, but a God of Harmony, the God of the Big Bang, the God of the Cosmic Expansion.
	That's the God he believed in.
	And I think most scientists feel more comfortable with the God of Leibniz, Spinoza, and Einstein than with a personal God that interjects him or herself into human affairs and smites the Philistines.
	I have some experience, not so much with God, because I'm kind of a... I don't know what I am.
	Uh, but I have seen some studies and I have some personal experience to indicate that prayer seems to work.
	You want to venture there at all?
	Yeah, well, let's say that, you know, God aside, people who believe in prayers can be studied And every study of people who believe in prayers show that they are slightly healthier than the average person.
	That's right.
	They have a better immune system.
	Yes.
	They tend to have fewer colds.
	Yes.
	And there's two ways you can look at it.
	Either there is a God smiling down on them, because their prayers are being answered, or they feel confident, comfortable, at peace with the universe, and therefore they're endorphins.
	Their endorphins are being released, which gives them a better immune system.
	Their stress level is much lower because they think there's a father figure up there.
	And with less stress, there's less wear and tear on the heart, less wear and tear on the immune system, less adrenaline coursing through their bloodstream, causing havoc with regards to free radicals.
	And that's why they tend to be healthier.
	Well, all well said, but what about studies that show that People in the hospital, for example, with a serious disease, there will be a group of people on the outside who will pray for them without their knowledge.
	And then, as a control group, they'll have others where there was essentially nobody praying for them.
	And they show that there is an effect.
	There does appear to be an effect.
	Now, that's external, without the knowledge of the person in the hospital with the serious disease.
	Possible, but remember that A lot of prayers are not necessarily benevolent.
	People pray for war, and people pray to different gods to win the next war, and throughout history we've had an enormous amount of bloodshed that came through prayers.
	And then the question is, if God exists, why is there evil in the world?
	That is perhaps one of the greatest of all theological questions.
	Is God a serial murderer?
	Why did God kill everyone and leave Noah's Ark unscratched, but he destroyed millions of people, flooded them basically, drowned them like rats?
	Well, there was this Nephilim thing.
	Right.
	So that's a theological question.
	Why does God tolerate evil in the world?
	That's a good one, and we've gone there as far as we should go, I guess.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Kaku.
	Hi.
	Yeah, hi, Mr. Bell.
	How are you?
	Just fine.
	And, doctor, great to talk to you.
	Listen, I wanted to ask you, did you see the movie Mission to Mars?
	I did.
	You saw the movie?
	Yes.
	What did you think of the explanation of what happened to Mars in that movie?
	Well, that movie was based on a germ of truth, and that is that some scientists believe that we are the Martians.
	That the Martians are us.
	That Mars was tropical when the Earth was still molten.
	Mars being farther out from the Sun, cooled first.
	And so Mars had a longer period of time before the Earth when it had oceans, it had a tropical environment, it had, you know, maybe half a billion years, let's say, to form DNA.
	And maybe DNA formed on Mars first.
	And then there was a seeding effect, maybe by meteorites, who knows.
	But Mars seeded the Earth with DNA.
	So there is a scientific thinking that perhaps life on Earth came from outer space.
	And Mars could be a likely candidate because there is an interplanetary ping-pong going on between Earth and Mars.
	And that would kind of correlate with Zachariah Sitchin's belief With the Anunnaki?
	Well, I'm not familiar with that.
	Well, no, that's kind of a bit of a different road.
	But there are a lot of people who indeed believe that we are Martians or that Earth was seeded from Mars.
	And... Right.
	And there is some scientific reason for believing that.
	The Earth was created four and a half billion years ago.
	And then for a billion years, that was the age of meteors.
	Tremendous meteors hit the Earth and the oceans probably boiled off many times during that age of meteors.
	When the age of meteors ended, three and a half billion years ago, the Earth finally formed its modern form with oceans.
	And then DNA got off the ground almost immediately.
	And some people have a hard time believing that life could start almost immediately after the age of meteors ended.
	Because it takes, you know, maybe a billion years to get DNA off the ground.
	And it happened almost instantly on a geologic time frame.
	So some people like Fred Hoyle would like to believe that it came from outside rather than on the Earth.
	Now my own particular point of view is different.
	My own particular point of view is that the most ancient DNA is on the bottom of volcano vents on the bottom of the ocean.
	The most ancient DNA is found near boiling water conditions.
	Now during the age of meteors, the ocean has probably boiled off many times.
	So DNA might have gotten started during the age of meteors because DNA can survive boiling water or near boiling water conditions.
	That's where the most ancient DNA is on the planet Earth, near volcano vents on the bottom of the ocean.
	By the way, there are new pictures.
	Michael Malin has taken new pictures of Mars.
	A face on Mars.
	I think we've got them on our website if people want to take a look.
	They seem to show the even more distinct possibility that what we're seeing there is a face.
	Harkening back to the movie for a moment.
	If we did come from Mars, then a face is not so illogical, is it?
	Well, if there were Martian life, that is, intelligent life that sprung up on Mars, and they realized their water was going through the ice caps, their water was going into outer space, drifting into space, bleeding into space, and the water was going underground into the permafrost, then I would suggest they would have three choices.
	Either dig underground and have an underground civilization where we couldn't see them, Go to the polar ice caps, where they would melt ice to get water, or flee into outer space.
	That's where the water went, on Mars.
	Three places.
	And if they stayed on Mars, the most likely place to find Martians is underground, in the permafrost, where they may have machines or hot water springs that keep them going.
	And we now know, from the latest data that just was announced about three months ago, That there probably is a very large permafrost under the Martian surface.
	A lot of water under the surface.
	Indeed.
	And the old third rock from the sun here would have been a great destination for Mars, right?
	Logical.
	That's right.
	As Mars was bleeding its atmosphere, as Mars was aging, premature aging, very rapidly, because it has a small gravity, then the Earth would be a very juicy place to go.
	Juicy.
	So, as Mars aged and got colder and as its atmosphere evaporated, the Martians would have a choice.
	Either flee into outer space or go underground.
	And if they flee into outer space, Earth would be a very good choice for it.
	Much closer to the Sun.
	And with plenty of liquid water, which is the universal solvent.
	Which is, of course, the amniotic fluid of life, is water.
	So, what percentage of probability or possibility do you assign to that?
	Well, it's hard to say.
	I think if you were to get a hundred scientists, maybe like one or two, would give this theory very serious thought.
	But you can't rule it out.
	You can't rule it out because all the signs are that Mars had an ocean the size of the United States.
	And that ocean was probably stable for perhaps a good fraction of a billion years or so.
	We don't know for sure.
	And that's sufficient time to get DNA off the ground.
	Alright, Doctor, we are approaching the last hour of the program and I always do give all my guests the opportunity, you know, if they have a big day coming up the next day, to bail out now or to carry forth for another hour.
	Let's go for it.
	You want to go for it?
	Yeah, sure.
	Okay, done deal Remember this
	This is Crystal Gale.
	Good morning everybody.
	Coast to Coast AM resumes in a few moments.

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