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April 4, 2000 - Art Bell

03:04:04

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Brad Steiger - Ghosts and Spirits

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	All right, this is kind of a unique opportunity.
	As I said, here comes the CEO of Premier Networks.
	I think we're a subsidiary owned, wholly owned by Clear Channel.
	I'm not exactly sure these days.
	Craig T. Kitchen.
	He's the big guy.
	Craig, hi.
	Good morning, Art.
	Good morning.
	It's great to have you on the air, finally.
	It's nice to be with you and all your listeners.
	I've always sat and watched the audience statistics of the size of this audience, and to think that there are millions of people that are hearing my voice at the same volume level of yours is quite an honor, actually.
	Thank you.
	People have no idea over the months and years, actually, now, how you have helped me, and you have helped me tremendously through some of the ordeal that I've been going through.
	I think about that a little bit, Craig, and then I think, You're in charge of networks that not only carry my program, My Little World, but that of Rush Limbaugh, that of Dr. Laura Schlesinger, and of Mike Reagan, and on and on and on it goes.
	So I was curious, how do you have a life?
	Well, like you and probably a lot of your listeners, I have determined that sleep is weak.
	If you can find a way to take in a lot of protein during the day and sleep four hours a night, it's all right.
	But we have experienced, I think, probably the best of times and the worst of times together in the last couple of years.
	I never thought that that phrase would actually have real meaning to me until I started to really understand the world that you have lived in because you have experienced some great heights like the Marconi Award nomination.
	The kind of heartfelt gratitude I think you're seeing from your listeners the last four or five days, and obviously the worst of times, which I know you kind of suffer by yourself off the air.
	Sure.
	I know that there are a great number of listeners, and I can identify thousands of them that have emailed me or tried to be in touch with me via phone in the last four days alone, and that's, as you say, just from your small corner of the world, which incidentally is not so small.
	But I know on behalf of all of those folks, in light of the announcement that you made last Friday night, we are all really going to truly miss your inquisitiveness and your perspective and your guided tour of all those things that are unexplainable, and maybe most of all, your laugh.
	I'm not sure.
	Well, thanks, Rick.
	By the way, there's been a lot of speculation about why I made the announcement on what appeared to be April Fool's Day.
	Um, it wasn't that so much as it was the first day of the last month that I was going to be on the air.
	And I, I knew full well, you know, I'm not doing any interviews, as you well know, uh, any at all.
	And, um, so I knew full well that if I did it late on Friday, I would have at least until tonight, uh, before the real siege began.
	So it wasn't so much to do it on that day as it was to do it, uh, Sure.
	By sheer coincidence, Friday nights are typically one of the largest listening nights of your broadcast week.
	to give myself the maximum amount of time, press-free time as possible.
	Sure.
	Well, and it also, by sheer coincidence, Friday nights is typically one of the largest listening
	nights of your broadcast week.
	So while I know you've really been able to focus on yourself on Monday and Fridays and
	being with your audience Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, the fact that you could be on
	the air with us last Friday in spite of the news I think was good.
	And like you say, you could have the weekend to yourself to decompress a little after making such a very emotional announcement to so many people that I think kind of treats you like almost one of their best friends.
	Well, I've learned how the press rooms of America run, and they're fully staffed during the week, and they kind of go down to a skillet and crew on the weekend.
	So that was a reason for it.
	it's the reason that a lot of uh...
	uh... stock announcements uh...
	are made right at the very end uh... it seems like a deal
	anyway uh... so what's it like running such a big network uh...
	It's very gratifying and it is for a lot of ways.
	The number of times that I have smiled with pride over the course of the last couple of years of being associated with you and with Rush and Laura and Michael and others, whether or not it is a cab driver in New York City Or a restaurant owner in Detroit or even the man who dry cleans some of my clothes.
	All it takes for them is one mention of Art Bell or Rush in some cases.
	It's a very flattering association and it's amazing the anecdotes and the stories that people like to tell me of a first-hand experience with you.
	And you get to talk to a lot of cab drivers, don't you?
	Because every day I talk to you nearly, you're in a new city somewhere.
	I like to see a lot of America.
	And you do!
	Yes, this is a very, very, very, very busy man, folks.
	Well, you are too, obviously, with the 480 or so affiliates.
	I did not realize how well your audience has become attuned to the Internet and the means of it as a communication vehicle.
	I listened to you on Friday night, had a weekend with my family and came to work on Monday and saw thousands of emails, literally letters of support, of offering to help me help you, every anecdote in the world that might bring you back to a full-time person.
	Understood the gravity of your situation and does think that maybe it is time for you to be able to enjoy a little retirement and privacy in your own life.
	Well, that's evidenced by the fact that my webmaster, Keith Rowland, zeroed out at the moment of my announcement the 60 million visitor figure we had accumulated over the last couple of years.
	And since Friday night at 11 o'clock, we've now had 318,000 Well, I know you have very precious time left with this audience.
	We talk about the worst of times and the best of times, and the worst of times for a lot of folks was hearing the reality that you really were going to retire at the end of this month.
	I think the best of times is really what you have really tried very hard over the last month to inspire all of us to do, which is to Pull ourselves up from the bootstraps and really dig deep into our minds and find somebody within the radio industry who has such a respect for the genre of programming, the type of program and conversations that Coast to Coast AM has had that we can continue.
	I think while I have experienced obviously some very dark moments with you, I'm coming into a place where I see a lot of sunshine in terms of finding The audience actually has no idea how dark some of those moments were, and again, I want to thank you for all of that.
	But you're right.
	To me, Craig, after having built this weirdness in the night, whatever it is that I do, more than anything else, I want the genre of the program to continue.
	I don't want to see that go away.
	People, I think, in my opinion, over-emphasize my part in it.
	The genre of the program is very, very important, and it's the only thing like it on the air of this size, certainly.
	So, to me, it's important.
	I want to see that continue, and from what I'm hearing, it shall.
	I will tell you that you are hearing my first-hand commitment to continue the tradition of Coast to Coast AM.
	You've done an excellent job without you realizing it of inspiring all of those around you to really dig deep and to find a host, which we hope to announce and I know that you're anxious to early next week in your program, as your successor.
	While that individual will not be Art Bell, they can be somebody else and we can all judge ourselves.
	How big of a part do you have played in our lives and at the same time take it to the next chapter?
	I think the Tonight Show was still on without Johnny Carson, although we all had to get used to Jay Leno's chin and we'll have to get used to somebody else's sense of humor.
	But you have my commitment and I hope with my words to your audience tonight that I will have their commitment in your tradition and in your name to carry on.
	We hope that you are tuned to a radio dial sometime in May, like a lot of us are.
	And I hope that you are.
	You know, before I began doing talk radio, I was an avid talk radio listener.
	I mean, avid.
	I would spend hours, actually, listening to talk radio.
	I loved it, Craig.
	And now that I'm going to be leaving it as, from this side of the microphone, I'll be listening to it again.
	There's no way I'll be gone.
	I'll be there listening.
	A lot of us have a very secret ambition that upon the first week of your retirement you actually fall into a deep, deep sleep, maybe for 40 hours or so, and wake up one morning at 8 a.m.
	and actually go through the course of the day until around 1130 when you and Ramona watch The Tonight Show or David Letterman.
	That, of course, is after listening to this program for an hour and a half.
	I fall asleep at about five minutes after midnight in Hilarion.
	It could happen.
	Could that happen in your house?
	It could happen, and then I might even hear a little rush.
	And we would encourage that, too.
	We would encourage that, too.
	So, in other words, the news then is next week we're going to be announcing the heir apparent.
	From your lips to your listeners' ears, yes.
	Okay.
	And it will happen here, and we'll make sure that it happens exclusively here first before it happens anyplace else.
	I think that we can have a very fast introduction and courting period.
	I know that you've been involved in this process.
	For those listeners who wonder what it is that you and I do and the hours that you're not talking to your listeners, we obviously all spend hours and hours thinking about what's most appealing.
	Quite a legacy and quite a group of experts.
	And I'm hoping that you'll allow us to share in all that research as you... You know I will.
	It's part of the program.
	Yeah, that is a very big part.
	Also, another big thing that seems to be happening is, and I think this is wonderful, that Premier is going to start Coast seven days a week live.
	Won't that be good?
	Yeah, that's tremendous.
	One of the great things that we've discovered in the last several months with your schedule and working around it is that there are some very, very fascinating posts that bring a different perspective, and if we can bring that on Saturday with one individual and on Sunday with another individual, the idea that there might be seven nights of exploration on topics i mean just even looking to you on friday night talk
	about uh... another glacier coming off of the ross shell or unbelievable
	yes i am you know the uh...
	uh... the united all of the issues and they're just so many of them uh...
	i think there really is room for seven nights a week so i
	i think that's a wonderful idea and uh...
	people to understand that you know all of this is i don't know it's a kind of uh...
	an ongoing thing I mean, lots of ideas were kicked around, but in the end, I think all the right ideas have been settled upon, and that is to keep the show exactly the way it is, in fact, to actually expand the program.
	And so, I think we're doing the right thing, Craig, and I'm so happy for the program, and I'm so happy that the right decisions were made, and I know you've been deeply involved in that process.
	There's nothing that a visit to the dentist can't fix.
	You have really contributed a great deal.
	I don't have a lot of time with your listeners tonight, and I know that you have precious little time left this month.
	I know that you have asked your listeners not to take too much of the open phone time and the wild card line and some of the others.
	I think we're working on something so that I can directly correspond with those who wish it and keep them updated on program changes and what's happening and all the rest of it.
	Is that, that might be one way to do that this month?
	I think we're working on something so that I can directly correspond with those who wish
	it and keep them updated on program changes and what's happening and all the rest of it.
	And so that'll appear on the website, I don't know, probably in the next 24 hours.
	Well, good.
	I hope that Keith can put that together.
	I know that over the course of the next four weeks or so, I'm sure you have just a watershed of conversations and topics that you'd like to spend all night exploring or all morning with your listeners.
	I promise on my end to minimize the number of goodbyes that we make and the wishing you well, because I think that you know and probably can feel our own rays of light coming your way and Ramona's way that our thoughts are with you.
	I do, Craig, and you're right.
	I want to keep doing the show for the time that I have left.
	I want to spend my time, as much as I'm able, doing the material that got me here, because that's what I love doing.
	So that's exactly what I am going to do, and I'm going to try to minimize the goodbyes.
	I know how everybody feels, and I'm sure as we get down to the last day or so, we'll just open the lines and let her rip.
	But between now and then, we'll try and concentrate as much as possible on content, if God knows there's enough content.
	There is certainly that.
	So I should prepare myself for a very large phone bill this month?
	I think you'd probably get a pretty large phone bill every month.
	You know, if you can stick around for a couple of seconds, that's actually a pretty good question.
	If you were to take all the programs that Premier has, and you were to add up all the phone bills that you have every month, How much is that?
	A little over 2.1 million dollars.
	What?
	Are you serious?
	I can honestly tell you I have a larger phone bill than probably the entire teenage population of America combined.
	2.1 million dollars.
	2.1 million dollars.
	Oh my God.
	You want to stick around a few minutes, Craig?
	I've got a few more questions.
	Absolutely.
	All right, stay right there.
	Craig P. Kitchen, who is the CEO of Premier Radio Networks, which is part of... That's a question I have, actually.
	It's part of Clear Channel.
	Owned, I think, by Clear Channel.
	I'm not sure these days who owns what.
	But it gets from here to there, and that's what counts.
	is my guest.
	And we'll talk more about it in the future of Coast to Coast AM and my retirement and all that in a moment.
	I am Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Don't touch that dial.
	Well, you know, when I pick up the phone to interview somebody for a few hours in Hong Kong, I never thought a whole lot about it.
	Until just now.
	Well, now it's a little too late.
	That's absolutely amazing, Greg.
	What is Premier Networks?
	I know it administers many talk shows.
	And Premier is, I guess, owned by Clear Channel?
	Exactly.
	Clear Channel Communications is a media communications company, which is, I guess, a glib phrase these days.
	But let me break that down for your listeners.
	It's a company that owns radio stations and television stations and billboards that we see alongside the road.
	They also own Premier Radio Networks, the distributor of Coast to Coast AM.
	And a lot more.
	And a lot more.
	Absolutely.
	So we are kind of a monolith in the broadcast industry.
	The Clear Channel Communications Company is a fast-becoming one, yes.
	Four hundred and some radio stations under one ownership right now.
	All started with one radio station in San Antonio that I think is close to all of our hearts, WOAI.
	Since then they have accumulated almost 130 AM radio stations that are in the talk genre.
	So, you and I are talking on a whole lot of clear channel radio stations, and there are a lot of listeners listening to them right now.
	Well, you know, you mentioned WII.
	When I went down to Central, actually Southern Mexico almost on vacation a couple of years ago, I thought, boy, am I getting away from it all.
	And I went outside, and I tuned 1200, and there was WII coming in like a local radio station.
	I went into a little restaurant, and somebody said, You're a coward!
	Way down in southern Mexico.
	I said, Holy mackerel!
	So, yes.
	That's why you and Ramona travel to different continents now on vacation.
	That's exactly right.
	What's Rush really like?
	What's Laura really like?
	Rush Limbaugh.
	He is a humorous, comedic, And I mean that in terms of having a wonderful sense of humor.
	Clearly, all company included, one of the two brightest men that I've ever met in my life.
	He is astute on all things, not just politics, but human events and life and football.
	He's a voracious reader.
	He loves the Internet almost as much as you do art.
	He is absolutely guided by that phrase, excellence in broadcasting, and truly a pleasure to know.
	You don't happen to know offhand, do you?
	I was at WABC, Phil Boyce in New York, and he took me into Rush's studio.
	And in Rush's studio, Craig, right next to his desk, there was this four foot tall, had to be four, maybe five foot tall, alien gray.
	Sitting right there next to his desk.
	You don't have to know anything about that, do you?
	I can only assume one of two things has happened in the arrival of that five-foot gray.
	It had to probably come from a listener as a gift, because the gifts do come in from all parts of the country, and I think at some point in time that's got to be where it is.
	I have not seen Rush spend too many days on the air exploring the phenomenon.
	No.
	Oh, great.
	Oh, no.
	No, no.
	But I walked into that room, into a studio, and I saw it, and I went, what?
	What?
	That would not be the first thing that you would expect.
	No.
	Maybe a picture of Ronald Reagan.
	Yes.
	Well, actually, there was a picture of Rush there that reminded me of a portrait of Ronald Reagan, now that you mention it.
	Absolutely.
	And Laura?
	Laura, a big phenomenon in America.
	Absolutely.
	Known probably as As the host of the fastest growing radio program in the history of the radio industry by the virtue of her listeners and rapid ascent.
	What people don't know is that she worked for more than 20 years in local radio in Los Angeles to hone her craft.
	The day that she went national, Art, is probably the day that she developed A mentality of being very resolute about her thoughts and opinions so that she could go on and take the next call without taking the next couple minutes to think back.
	Did I just give the right advice or the wrong advice?
	A lot of people, I think, Craig, suspect or think that when they first hear people nationally, that is where they began.
	But of course, that couldn't be further from the truth.
	Rush was in Sacramento Radio and a lot of other radio.
	Long before he became national, Laura was.
	I spent about 20 years in radio before I began to be syndicated.
	A lot of people think it began with the first day of syndication when it came on their radio station.
	It's a craft that really takes years and years.
	You've obviously taught me a whole lot in terms of how to relate to one listener at a time.
	I think you only learn through experience and through the ability to talk one-on-one with an individual.
	It's just like I'm talking one-on-one right now with somebody who's listening to me in Boston.
	Sure.
	That sensitivity just comes with age.
	Well, what's it been like to go from virtually one radio station to this monolith, this incredible broadcasting corporation that is Premier and Clear Channel?
	What has it been like for you?
	I mean, you've gone from Sort of what must have been a fairly simple job by comparison to an extremely complex job now.
	Yeah, several years ago I was associated with just one talk radio program in the name of Michael Reagan, just through the process of acquisition and distribution, which means purchasing the distribution program like the Dr. Lore program.
	It's a real weighty proposition because in some ways you're influencing what somebody may listen to 12 or 14 hours of the day.
	You have to constantly think about what's entertaining, what would make people stop long enough to stay tuned to the radio, to sit in the car for 15 minutes in their driveway without getting out and walking into the house, making them go to the extent That they want to set an appointment with you.
	It is, in some ways, a lot of responsibility.
	It is.
	Tremendous amount.
	You said 10 to 12 hours a day of programming.
	National programming.
	And that is an awesome amount of responsibility to all of America, and frankly, beyond this continent.
	A lot of people would say that's too much.
	That you're really doing too much.
	And yet, I want to tell everybody in the audience that not one time ever, not even once, has Premier told me what I can or can't say on the air.
	Everybody imagines that because it's such a large monolith, that there's a control of the media.
	It's a popular conspiracy-type belief.
	But the fact of the matter is, nobody has ever told me one time what to say on the air.
	Yes, it is.
	There is something very magical that happens when you walk into your studio every night.
	I think the day that I suggest to you what you might say, or say to Rush what he might say or not, or even suggest it, is the day that second guessing goes on in others.
	In a lot of ways, Art, I feel I work for you and I work for Rush and I work for Laura and others.
	You know what I've always wondered about?
	What I just said is absolutely true about never having been told, a lot of people aren't going to believe it no matter what I say, but it is the truth.
	house provided one a m in the morning of the running coast just
	talked until six a m truly realize
	that's a lot of hard work you know i've always wondered about
	uh... what i just said it out of a true about never having been told a lot of
	people are going to believe it no matter what i say but it is the truth
	on the other hand i think of your position out there
	wondering what going to say next.
	I have spent more than my fair share of time listening to you on the speaker end, just wondering how far you're going to take a conversation.
	I remember you talking to two pilots that don't know each other one night over Illinois.
	and wondering just how far you were going to take that conversation about what they
	witnessed flying over the state of Illinois.
	Not that that was even a subject matter that isn't worth exploring.
	It obviously was because it was one of the most riveting nights recently on your program.
	You're right.
	There's a lot of trust and confidence in our relationship.
	It must make for a lot of long days for you.
	I remember working, Greg, for one station for 14 years and the lady who ran it, with an iron fist I might add, used to relate to me the terror that she would go through listening to her own radio station at night, wondering what kind of trouble she was going to get into.
	And so talk radio, It's very, very different in programming and in the concerns versus music radio.
	Yes, it is.
	It's five hours of conversation in your particular case.
	I think it's absolutely the most fascinating way that anybody can spend time with radio, though.
	I agree.
	And if you're driving across the country, music is great.
	So I wouldn't take anything away from Clear Channel's music stations, but if you want to Stay awake while you're driving across the country.
	Talk radio is where it's at.
	Absolutely.
	And to be provoked and entertained and educated.
	I think that you have probably been one of the absolute pioneers of making us all think out of the box, which I guess has become a politically correct phrase in the year 2000.
	And causing you to lose sleep.
	And causing you to lose a lot of sleep.
	Explain to listeners at 8 or 1 in the morning just what you meant by that.
	Well, Craig, so summing up, we're going to be able to announce next week.
	Do we have a day or sort of generally just next week?
	Well, I know that I'm anxious to communicate as early as next Tuesday and as late as next Thursday.
	So I hope our listeners are with us next week.
	I know they will because in some ways I have firsthand witnessed a countdown to the end of April.
	But let's both work towards next Tuesday night.
	All right.
	And I think that that's a very safe commitment to make to all of your listeners.
	All right.
	So there it is, folks, next Tuesday night, and also Coast going to seven days a week live, which I think is just absolutely wonderful.
	And the absolute assurance and promise that Coast is going to remain in exactly the genre it is right now, whatever that is.
	Whatever that is.
	From night to night, it's always different.
	Craig, I've always wanted to do this, so I really, really, really appreciate you coming on the air with me tonight.
	It's been a pleasure.
	I have always wanted to spend a little time with you and your listeners as well, and now I can take the seat right next to Major Dames and Mr. Hoagland.
	Oh, well, if you want to do that.
	Any predictions?
	Yes, I will tell you I have one prediction.
	Okay.
	I think that you are going to come into a I think you have a lot of good things to look forward to and never forget us.
	Just tell me that you'll be one of the listeners, just like myself, in the month of May.
	Oh, absolutely!
	it's going to come out there you and ramona will be better
	u m i think you have a lot of good people look forward to and
	uh...
	never forget up and uh...
	just tell me that you'll be one of the listeners just like myself in the month
	of may all absolutely dependent
	absolutely i'm so i'm not stuck on top radio one way or the other
	Terrific.
	Craig, thank you.
	Thank you.
	Good night.
	Good night, my friend.
	All right, that's Craig T. Kitchen.
	And I can't tell you, folks, over the period of time that all of this has been going on without dredging up those details, Craig Kitchen has been by my side and has been a friend.
	And despite what a lot of you think, as I said a little while ago, never once, ever, Has anybody from that network told me what to say or what topics to cover or what not to cover?
	As a matter of fact, as I said to Craig, if I were in his position, I would be absolutely terrified on a nearly 24-hour basis that any one of us might say something that would cause all kinds of problems.
	So it's kind of an interesting job to have to do.
	To run a talk radio network and that's what he does.
	It's a terrifying job, I think.
	Can I get him?
	Got a lot of heartache and everyday is not a lot of tears All of the ways, all the situations that I just can't quit
	He's like the old one Can I get him?
	I got a lot of those heartaches I got a lot of those tear drops
	Heartaches, tear drops All of the ways, nothing but a heartache
	To reach Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nigh from west of the Rockies, dial 1.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	1-800-825-5033. First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222 or use the wildcard
	line at 1-775-727-1295. To reach out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T
	operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell, on the Premier Radio Networks.
	It certainly is!
	Boy, they can build that out, can't they?
	Good morning, everybody.
	In the first hour, you heard from the Premier of C.E.
	of... Premier.
	The Premier.
	Yeah, that's it.
	The Premier.
	The CEO of Premier Radio Networks, Craig T. Kitchen, and we'll see to it that that hour is repeated, if you missed it, when we go into the repeat hour at 3 a.m.
	Pacific Time.
	Coming up here in a moment, the grandfather of the paranormal.
	I don't think that's an understatement.
	I use grandfather anyway, but he's certainly the grandfather of the paranormal.
	His name is Brad Steiger.
	He's been a friend for years and years.
	He's coming up shortly.
	I just, once again, want to note the sad, sad passing of Terrence McKenna.
	Terrence McKenna has passed away, and he went apparently in his sleep.
	And it's sad.
	You know, a great man.
	A man who is my friend and I know, known to many of you, is gone.
	And so yet another one is gone.
	Terrence McKenna.
	Coming up in a moment, Brad Steiger.
	And by the way, tonight we may, because all of you have, when I've done Ghost to Ghost, There have been so many good stories.
	We'll cover the new book that Brad has, and some aspects of the paranormal.
	But I think at some point, I'm going to open the phone lines for ghost stories from you, with the virtual expert on this kind of thing, in the world as far as I am concerned, Brad Steiger.
	And so we may tell some ghost stories tonight and get Brad's reaction.
	Because they have been nothing short of fabulous when you've told them.
	So if you have one, Prepare it.
	We will get to that point, I think, tonight.
	would be fun.
	Now, from the Kingdom of Nine, more Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Here again, is Art.
	All right, here he comes, the grandfather of the paranormal, of the world of Brad Steiger.
	Here's Brad Steiger.
	Hi, Brad.
	Hi, Art.
	Gee, it's been a while.
	Yes, it has.
	Good to be back with you.
	You have written, I always go for the grand total because I never know what it is.
	How many books now?
	I think what you hold in your hand is probably 149.
	149.
	Wow.
	The latest book being a book called Welcome, well, Shadow World, actually.
	Is that fair?
	Shadow World?
	Shadow World.
	What do you mean by Shadow World?
	Well, over the years, I started pursuing paranormal quite young and professionally in the 1950s.
	Actually, it pursued you.
	Yeah, that's true.
	That's true.
	No, you're absolutely right.
	You're absolutely right.
	But then I started pursuing back and going to different houses and apartment houses and office buildings and so forth.
	For over 45 years now, in Shadow World, I've collected what, to me, were some of the most baffling, intriguing, eerie, spooky, and yet somehow inspiring stories, in many cases.
	But I have come to the conclusion that, whether we're talking about other dimensions, and I think we are, The shadow world, as I call it, is just at the edge of our world.
	And we can cross into that world sometimes when we're in altered states, but sometimes for the many people, when they least expect it, they suddenly have encountered something that previously was beyond their ken, beyond their definition, beyond their reality, beyond their world.
	And they have stepped into Shadow World.
	Now, the entities there, again, I think we have a mixed bag.
	Now, some people have said, now, Brad, you're the one that you never categorize.
	You say, as we do in The Source, that, you know, it could all be one great source.
	And it could.
	Sure.
	But just as, you know, we're one species on this planet, one human species, we have all kinds of Ethnic groups and other divisions, nationalities.
	It might be the same in Shadow World.
	Well, single-sourced or not, there are many manifestations.
	Exactly.
	That's for sure.
	Exactly.
	So just as there are many kinds and reactions of personalities in our physical world, in this multi-dimensional, para-physical world, there indeed, I have certainly speculated in this book, that there are Different types, and they react in different ways with different people.
	You sent out a questionnaire to a bunch of people, didn't you?
	Mm-hmm.
	And the results of it were really, I think, really, really interesting.
	How many people... You began back in 1967, and I guess you still send it out.
	How many people do you think have responded to that by now?
	Well over 30,000 now, Art.
	30,000?
	Yeah, and again, let me qualify.
	I don't pretend that this is strictly scientific because these are people who have written to me or have responded when Sherry and I have given a seminar or whatever.
	So, again, these people are interested in the paranormal.
	So I'm not trying to say that this is the man in the street type of thing.
	Sure, sure.
	But of that number, 48% responded they have seen a ghost.
	Right.
	Forty-eight percent.
	Just under half of all the people have seen a ghost.
	That's astounding.
	Forty-two percent have perceived the spirit of a departed one.
	That's astounding to me.
	Forty-two percent.
	And sixty-one percent say they have encountered spirit entities in haunted places.
	Spirit entities.
	That's a gigantic majority.
	They don't call them ghosts, but spirit entities.
	How do they delineate?
	What is the difference between a spirit entity and a ghost in a haunted place?
	Well, there again, I try to make it as general as possible.
	Ghost, spirit entity, whatever you want to call it, but somehow spirit entity seems to be a more collective.
	I again feel there is a difference between what I call a ghost and call a ghost and shadow world and what we would call a spirit entity.
	And just to delineate that for one minute here, a ghost, I feel, is most often a residue that's somehow left in an environment, somehow left in a house.
	And then someone of the proper or more receptive telepathic affinity enters that area and somehow picks up on it, just like seeing a real emotion picture film.
	And they see a scene being enacted, or they see a person, a personality, and this is extremely common.
	And I don't think that that has anything to do with survival of the spirit.
	That is, that somehow the emotion is impressed in the environment in a way we don't understand, and then it's picked up.
	And I think a lot of people have those experiences.
	The spirit itself, the conscious remaining spirit or soul of that person?
	I don't think so, because in what I call a ghost, the entity repeats a physical act over and over again, like a strip of film.
	That's why I make that comparison.
	Okay, delineate then between that for me and what is called up when one uses a Ouija board I mean, because the Ouija Board seems to have a definite consciousness and purpose behind what it says.
	The Ouija Board, again, I generally launch into a little polemic at this point.
	If you feel, and I'm using the ubiquitous you here, If you feel that you have the proper discipline and training and you've studied, a Ouija board can be of use, but I definitely am against it with teenage girls at slumber parties doing it on Friday night type of thing.
	I've been called in far too often by parents to work with hysterical young women.
	At one time, a group of college girls came to see me in my office.
	They had been playing with a Ouija board.
	They had, again, an intelligence that was giving them all sorts of data, but so often, then, we have so many what I call astro-masqueraders out there, and you find that too often it ends up with obscenity, it ends up with outright filth, it ends up with having them do ridiculous and suggestive things.
	So you have to be very, very careful using a Ouija board.
	I'm just amazed that it's sold in catalogs as a game for children like a Monopoly board.
	It is.
	And it is not that.
	It is not a game.
	It is something that must be dealt with.
	When you start opening the doorway between Our world and shadow world, you must be extremely cautious.
	I don't think it's so much the board itself.
	I don't think there's anything magical about it.
	There's nothing magical about it.
	In other words, you could sit down with a candle and a circle and go into a contemplative state and probably bring on the same thing.
	So it's just a tool.
	Exactly.
	That's all it is.
	There's no magic in a Ouija board.
	But what is happening there is opening up aspects of the unconscious, aspects of the psyche.
	And for people who are not prepared and don't know how to handle when they're knocking at the door, you're probably going to get an answer.
	And you better be prepared when that door opens, the entity that might be walking through now, figuratively standing there for you.
	Well, is it possible that in a situation like that, or the one I spoke of, simple concentration, you can actually allow an entity of some kind, any kind, to enter this realm that otherwise would not enter?
	I'm convinced of it.
	I've seen it happen just too often.
	And as I say, I've been called on the scene far too often with people who have been not judicious in opening up that doorway and have brought things into this environment, this physical world, that they can no longer handle.
	And that very often expresses itself in poltergeistic manifestations, things being thrown about, things broken, and sometimes in temporary possession of one or more of the people Doing the amateur experimentation.
	Spirits of the dead.
	Now, there are, this is where it gets so hard to explain and delineate, but people who have died, particularly those who have recently died, For example, Terrence McKenna, just within the last hours passed away.
	Right.
	Would it possibly still have a very strong attachment to the ones around them, to loved ones, to unfinished business, to something or another?
	Is that nothing but a sort of a left echo and you really are convinced that there's no, or is there a short period of time there?
	Where there is a continued consciousness that's trying to get a message across of some kind.
	Yeah, I, again, we can't be dogmatic in any of our answers, but at this point in my research, I have to give credence to the dozens of people who contact me or write to me every week with accounts of having made what they feel is verifiable contact with a loved one.
	That is recent.
	By the way, something's happened since we last talked.
	Did you see The Sixth Sense?
	Yes.
	For me, it was like seeing the story of my childhood, only I was never frightened.
	Well, I was at the beginning.
	When I saw that, they didn't hurt me.
	That's not saying that I haven't had the hackles in the back of my neck rise more than once.
	Whenever I go to investigate, I do not go alone.
	I think when you're alone is when things can... Get out of hand?
	Yeah.
	I think if you have even one other person, or preferably two, that are sensitive and balanced and so forth.
	That sort of experience...
	I guess for me, I didn't realize who I was seeing until many years later when I saw in a family album that it would have been my great-grandparents that were coming to see me when I was a little boy.
	I would first put the covers over my head and then look, and they're still there, and put the covers over my head and look, and they're still there.
	Then night after night, when all they did was stand and smile at me, I thought, well, What's to worry?
	They're smiling.
	Yeah.
	Well, they weren't really smiling.
	And when I saw a picture of them, they were kind of stern and good hearty Scandinavian pioneer stock.
	But I felt they were smiling at me.
	I felt that there was whatever.
	And I guess I've always tried to maintain that positive attitude.
	Now, I've told the story on your program a number of times when I Yeah, that was probably the scariest thing I ever heard.
	Yeah, well, that really caused me to reassess a lot of things, Art.
	At that point, I was pretty smug and intellectual, and I had pretty much moved into intellectualizing and dismissing everything as misapprehensions or psychological aberrations of one sort or another.
	Pretty judgmental phase of my life, and at that point, boy, that just opened up the whole vista of Shadow World for me.
	Was it like to actually be raised off the ground?
	I've had a couple experiences like that, and it is... Again, for me, you know, I'm... At that time, I mean, I was really pumping iron, and you know, I'm 230 pounds, so...
	If someone's going to lift me in the air, you know, it takes a little bit of effort.
	Somehow, I don't think that weight is a real consideration.
	No, no, no.
	But I'm not generally used to having someone walk into a room and pick me up.
	Well, to be clear, nobody walked into a room and actually picked you up.
	You were simply challenging an entity and, I guess in response, it, along with many other things, picked you up off the ground.
	Yeah, the situation there, I should have known better.
	I guess I was feeling my oats.
	This was a place where a number of violent murders had taken place in this house.
	Hold that thought.
	Violent murders in that house.
	Up off the floor you went, like the mountains high.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This, of course, is Coast to Coast AM with the weird world of Brad Steiger.
	We'll be right back.
	Ghost Stories fly ahead.
	so deep, can't get across to the other side. Don't you give up, baby, don't you die.
	...holy mansion with a tear in every room, all I want's the love you promised beneath the haloed moon.
	Once the love you promised beneath the haloed moon But you think I should be happy with your money and your
	But you think I should be happy with your money and your name,
	name And hide myself in sorrow while you play your cheating game
	and hide myself in sorrow while you play your cheatin' game.
	Silver threads and golden needles cannot mend this heart of mine
	And I dare not drown my sorrow in the warm water wise But you think I should be happy with your money and your
	name And hide myself in sorrow while you play your cheating game
	Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nigh from west of the Rockies at 1-800-693-8111
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	To reach out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
	And, of course, the grandfather of the paranormal, Brad Steiger, is here, who once, in a place where there had been violent murders, decided to challenge an entity.
	And for his trouble, he was lifted from the ground.
	Something that gives me the chills just thinking about it.
	We'll be right back.
	Stay right where you are.
	Now, from the Kingdom of Nine, more Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Here again is Art.
	And once again, the granddaddy of the paranormal, here is Brad Sire.
	Okay, Brad.
	Here's something, let's go ahead and pick up where we were.
	A home, a place where a number of murders have been committed.
	Well, I tell the story at considerable length in our book, The Source, so I don't need to go into detail, probably, except the essence and the point I'm making is that in houses like that, that become like repositories of Evil and violence and extreme emotionality.
	There could lurk what I call spirit parasites.
	That will inhabit or take over the inhabitants if they are vulnerable.
	And certainly wear them down over a period of time.
	And the people who lived in that house, you know, again, anonymously, But some of them were almost at the hysteric point because of the blood from the walls, the appearance of malevolent entities and so forth.
	So in this situation, I should have known better, certainly.
	And there's no apologies for that.
	But while I was in this one particular room, Uh, with the medium getting impressions and so forth.
	The door kept trying to close, and the point I have to make over and over is you had to push this door over a rough cement ridge.
	It could not close by itself, but this door was closing by itself, pushing over that ridge, which took considerable energy and force.
	So I had two associates, well over 200 pounders, Holding that door open so it didn't close on me.
	And then I defiantly said when I had finished my research and in the room, I said, all right, if the damn thing wants to close, close it and lock it.
	Well, that's I should have known better.
	We were barely up the stairs and smash.
	We heard that door just splinter, the lock fly.
	And we heard something coming up the stairs that sounded like I say, like King Kong or something. And then it was
	not just I, you see, it was half a dozen other people that were lifted into the air at
	the same time.
	And that was quite a demonstration. It indicated to me that there was an intelligence involved.
	And now back to the best of Art Bell. An intelligence that could be
	insulted, an intelligence that could want revenge or it would retaliate or would,
	I'll show you smart guy.
	And that, as I say, really turned my research around at that point.
	I had denied a lot of individual psychism that I had expressed as a child.
	I had begun to rationalize that.
	I had put everything into a very kind of materialistic, I was writing about it, I was writing, but I was doing it, and I can remember person after person at that point of my life, psychics, medians, and so forth, they'd say to me, what do I have to do to convince you?
	And I would say, well, you know, they would demonstrate something, and it would appear extraordinary, but I'd say, well, it could be this, it could be that, it could be, you And I drove people to distraction at that point.
	That really forced me, okay, retain objectivity, retain certainly that intellectual approach, but also open up your mind that there are things that we cannot define, that we must be open to, and there are powers and principalities that are all around us, and in interacting Honest and with us in ways that we cannot fully comprehend at this point.
	Well, talking esoterically about lingering spirits that are not exactly the consciousness, the souls of the departed is one thing, but getting lifted off the ground is a different reality.
	Now, how do you square the two?
	Well, again, I...
	Almost always said, well, it's a residue.
	It's a spirit residue.
	It's a memory.
	I have revised that.
	I mean, I'm open.
	I have now been involved in too many cases where it certainly would appear to all clear-minded, clear-thinking, I know people will laugh when I say that, some of them, but people who will evaluate in a fair manner that there was Contact made by this particular deceased individual because information was given that no one else would know, you know, like an allegedly lost insurance policy or other information that only that deceased person would know.
	Now, again, one says, well, they picked it up through ESP.
	Well, yes, yes, but it's ESP from an entity that is What is poltergeist?
	called dead. But then we have to say as Chief Seattle said, there is no death, there's only
	a change of world and hence I'm back to shadow world.
	All right, well in shadow world, what is poltergeist?
	Poltergeist again, is that I think we have to look at it at least two ways. In adolescent
	and most often a girl undergoing psychic upheaval. This has also happened to young women on their
	honeymoons when they remain virginal and this requires then a psychological and physical
	adjustment to now sexual intercourse.
	Poltergeistic phenomena has just burst around them.
	I've got so many accounts of haunted honeymoons, I could write a book.
	Sexual energy?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Manifestations, the bed bursting into flames.
	Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha Darling, I'm saving it for our wedding night.
	The covers burst into flame and the walls and so forth.
	So again, it has to do with psychokinetic energy on one level.
	Nothing at all to do with entities.
	But then also, if there is a haunting Residue involved, the two, can just create incredible chaos.
	If you have a haunting situation, and then you have a youngster entering puberty, and all this psychokinetic energy bursting, wow!
	You can have, and I've been called by police departments around the country, you know, and they usually run their course in a week or so, but
	sometimes they maintain for several weeks.
	In the shadow world I have like a diary of a poltergeist where a woman is keeping a count
	each day of the manifestations and so forth.
	I'll tell you a little secret.
	I hear from, because obviously they're on the late shift and they're driving around in patrol cars, police have long, boring stretches interspersed with terrifying seconds.
	And during those long, boring stretches, they get an opportunity to listen to this program.
	So I get a lot of feedback from law enforcement people.
	They have had, Brad, I'm telling you, More experience with the paranormal than any group I could name.
	Police officers have been one of my essential sources ever since I got into investigating the paranormal.
	I have been brought to more haunting situations by police officers than anyone else.
	They have encountered something that just simply was not in the police manual.
	And they were open enough and big enough to ask for help.
	And just some extraordinary cases.
	And as I tell the one story, of course, where I had been brought to a situation by a police officer, who then at the last minute, he was going to be with me, but his duty changed.
	And he had to have someone else fit in who did not accept the paranormal, did not accept ghosts.
	And again, the situation when the ghost, he had been giving me such a bad time, and then when the ghost began to manifest and take form right in front of us, then my mischief itself got a little revenge because when the police officer kept saying, what's that?
	What's that?
	What's that?
	I kept saying, I don't say anything.
	I don't say anything.
	Until he was finally going for his police 38, and then I put my hand on his, and I said, no, no, no, I see it.
	And that was the time I actually stuck my hand inside a ghost, and that... Do you remember what you felt?
	Yeah, yeah, it felt like dry ice.
	It felt a little cold.
	You know, there's always, not always, but almost always the cold spot around it, like you saw in The Sixth Sense, where you can see your breath.
	Sure.
	So again, it was like putting your hand in the...
	If it were dry ice, it was just cold and tingly all around.
	By the way, I don't want to give away the end of The Sixth Sense.
	I know a lot of people have seen it, but did your teeth drop the way mine did at the end?
	I told Sherry before we watched it, I said, I think I know, because they said there was a twist.
	I read a review about the child thing, so I put my writer's mind to what would I do if I were going to do a twist.
	That's what I would have done.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	Man, I didn't see it coming at all.
	I didn't see it coming.
	As a matter of fact, I was in a hotel in the Los Angeles area, watching it on one of those pay-per-view things in a hotel, and I wasn't expecting much, and I thought the movie was very, very good.
	Very good.
	But at the end, I couldn't speak.
	I'm telling you, it was that serious.
	I really couldn't speak.
	I went through it again then with Sherry and showed her to see how they didn't do this, and they didn't do that, and you know, pointed out different things.
	Almost everybody did that.
	You almost had to go back and say, well, was the movie really true?
	And it really was, of course.
	Yeah.
	But you see, as a writer, it doesn't bother me to figure something out in advance because I'm looking at the execution, the style, the dialogue, and so forth.
	I mean, to me, it's like seeing a Shakespeare play again.
	I mean, it doesn't spoil it for me that I've read Macbeth and seen it a dozen times.
	I'm still excited about a good presentation of it.
	I have done now, over the years, a whole bunch of shows that I have, for lack of a better name, just called Ghost to Ghost, Brad.
	And during those programs, I have received some of the scariest, strangest, Obviously true stories of the paranormal and of apparitions and ghosts.
	Oh, absolutely.
	As I've ever heard in my whole life.
	I mean, just really serious stuff.
	And I thought it might be fun one night, maybe this night, because you're such an expert in the area, to open up the lines specifically to those stories, just the way we do on Ghost2Ghost.
	Except let me get your comment on them because normally I'm here and my jaw's dropping and I don't have the first inkling of what to say to people except holy smokes or something it's equivalent.
	What was it Billy Batson used to say holy moly or whatever before he turned into Captain Marvel?
	Whatever it is you can say on radio.
	Well I would like to bring up One category that I put in Shadow World and see if anyone has had experiences with what I call the Spirit Mimics.
	What are Spirit Mimics?
	Well, I don't know what they are, but I find them the most fascinating and the eeriest.
	I call them the in-between beings.
	They look like us, they act like us, they pose as us, and then you find out They haven't been us all along.
	People, until you've had this kind of experience, and I know there's some people out there because I hear from a lot.
	Let's put it this way, Art.
	You decide one night, you and Ramon are going out for a cup of coffee in a place you've never been.
	You go for a drive, way out there in the desert, and you see this quaint little restaurant.
	You stop.
	There's some really neat people there.
	They talk to you.
	They chat with you.
	And, you know, a month later you say, let's go back there.
	They were so nice.
	You go back and you can't find it.
	And you know exactly where it was.
	Oh, you mean the place?
	Yeah.
	And it's not there.
	But you know exactly where it was.
	Oh, you'll get plenty of that.
	Believe me.
	We must be mistaken.
	Well then, To have beings appear, or call you on the phone, or make arrangements, talk with you, and claim to be someone you know, but yet, it's not quite that person.
	For some reason, we don't... I mean, what is the agenda?
	Is this for education?
	Is this testing?
	Is this evaluation?
	Is it something we can't even guess at?
	But I have several stories in the book about spirit mimics that I think are the eeriest that I've ever written.
	And I would really be curious if people had those experiences.
	Shadow World, by the way, is available by going to my website and taking the usual hop over to Amazon.com.
	Now, you won't get immediate delivery.
	What you can be is one of the very first people to get Shadow World.
	If I'm reading what it says on Amazon.com correctly... I think it is available now.
	Oh, is it really?
	Just on... Now, one thing, too.
	Now, all the, you know, various electronic people have the book, but Amazon.com, they let you blow up the cover.
	And this, I think, has the most gorgeous cover.
	It is pretty.
	And the neat thing there... But it does still say not yet available.
	You're saying Shadow World is available.
	I think there may be just a lap behind there.
	I think it probably is available, and in the stores, and is available now.
	But when you see that beautiful woman standing on the beach, there you kind of see the essence of Shadow World, because as beautiful as she is, and as beautiful as she is dark-gown as boy, you also notice, if you look closely, you can see through her.
	Yes.
	Well, okay then.
	Hold on, Brad.
	What I would like to do, let me instruct the audience now, is I would like to do the same thing that we do when we do Ghost to Ghost AM.
	I would like those of you with really serious stories of the shadow world, ghost stories, stories of hauntings, stories of possession, Those of you, if you really do have a story, a serious story, those of you in law enforcement, those of you not in law enforcement, but with serious stories, I would like you to go ahead and come on ahead and tell them, and then sort of get the opinion of one of the greatest experts we have on this sort of thing in this country, Brad Steiger.
	Sounds interesting, doesn't it?
	So that's what we're going to do next.
	A kind of a modified ghost-to-ghost AM with my breast, uh... My breast.
	With my guest, Brad Steiger.
	Actually, all over the world.
	Good evening, everybody.
	From the high desert, this is coast-to-coast AM.
	Or is that...?
	Ghost to Ghost AM.
	Now we'll see.
	Phone lines are open.
	Only in America, land of opportunity, yeah.
	Would a classy girl like you fall for a poor boy like me?
	Only in America, and a kid who's washing cars.
	Take a giant step and...
	I will never be set free, as long as I'm a ghost you can't see.
	Wanna take a ride?
	Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033. First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222. The
	wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295. And to reach out on the toll-free international
	line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
	And with Brad Steiger and maybe sort of a portion of Ghost to Ghost AM where...
	Soliciting from you the stories that you have told so many times on Ghost to Ghost.
	Maybe even some repeats of those.
	And then the opinion of an expert.
	We've got that.
	Brad Steiger.
	His brand new book deals with this kind of thing.
	It's called Shadow World.
	You'll find it on Amazon.com.
	It's just now available.
	And then eventually, of course, in bookstores across America.
	But Shadow World, you should definitely check out.
	The man who's lived in it for so many years, Brad Seiger, is here, and we're about to launch into a series of your stories.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Stay right where you are.
	Here again is Art.
	All right.
	The author of so many books, the latest being Shadow World, which, again, you can get on Amazon.com now just barely.
	I mean, you can just, it's just materializing on Amazon.com.
	Brad Seiger.
	Brad, welcome back.
	Thank you.
	All right.
	One comment I wanted to quote also.
	You were mentioning the statistics that we had compiled with our questionnaire.
	I found it fascinating that Dr. Jeffrey Levin, An associate professor at Eastern Virginia Medical School analyzed the National Sociological Survey conducted by the National Opinion Research Center, University of Chicago.
	And in his opinion, Art, his opinion based on his analysis of this nationwide sociological survey, two-thirds of Americans said that they had at least one mystical experience.
	Now, interestingly, this seems to increase with each generation.
	Oh, now that is interesting.
	And another interesting aspect... Now, would that be due to the fact that more people are willing to admit it, do you think, Brad?
	Well... Or that actually the phenomena is increasing?
	His... He seemed to feel it was increasing.
	I mean, taking into consideration You and I know that people are more prone to discuss it than ever before.
	Sure.
	Due to your marvelous program, and I like to think my marvelous books, and other people, of course, who have been doing the same work in this field.
	But he feels it is something that is happening with each generation.
	He also said that mystical experience, now that includes, of course, Hearing your father's voice after he's passed, seeing a ghost, and almost 40% in that national survey said they'd seen a ghost.
	Now that is the national, that is the person on the street, 40%, 39.9%.
	But that's also apparitions of Mother Mary, saints, and so forth.
	Now the interesting thing there is that it's happening more To unchurched people than church people.
	You know, although I'm waiting on the phone, but one thing to interject.
	If I'm a devout Catholic, for example, and I see a kind of a wispy, smoky, obvious apparition appear before me, I'm probably going to think it's a message from Mary, or it's a sign from God, or it's something to do with my deep faith.
	If I'm not a Catholic, I'm probably going to think it's some sort of ghost.
	If I'm not a believer at all, I'm probably going to think I didn't digest something properly and dismiss it.
	So the fascinating thing is that those messages from Mary or whomever are happening more to unchurched than church people.
	According to this survey, and I found that fascinating.
	All right.
	Let's say hello to a few people.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Brad Steiger.
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	Oh, I didn't push the button.
	First time caller on the line, now you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi, Brad.
	Hi.
	I'm John.
	I'm a police officer in Montana, and unfortunately, I don't have any job-related stories, but I do have a unique one, which is just as interesting.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	When I was around 16 years old, my mother had purchased a dog for my sister and I at the local Dog Pound.
	It was a Chinese Pug, which was about middle-aged, and those dogs are pretty susceptible to disease, and they just don't live very long, are they?
	Now, anyway, I'd grown a very fond attachment to this dog over the years, and actually had done a cartoon strip on it in local paper for a couple of years.
	Anyway, one night I went to bed.
	This was a couple of years after we got the dog.
	The dog had always slept on the bed with me, down by my knees.
	He would curl up.
	One night, I recall, just as I laid down, I heard the dog actually coming across the floor and jump up on the bed.
	For a minute, it startled me and I asked myself, what was that?
	I replied to myself, well that's just a dog.
	Well, I felt the dog curl up by my legs and between my knees and lay down and I thought, oh my god, that dog died about a month ago.
	It startled me.
	I, of course, realized the dog was dead, but it was just such a familiar feeling.
	Well, I thought, this is it.
	This is my chance to see a ghost.
	If there ever is such a thing, this is it.
	Made sure I moved very cautiously, and in an instant opened my eyes.
	And when I did, I seen the dog, which appeared to be made of a dull light, if you will.
	Say that again, of what?
	Let's say pixels, almost, of a dull light.
	A dull, dull light?
	Yes.
	And as soon as I looked at the dog, it lifted its head from its paws.
	Looked me right in the eye with a very peaceful, calm look and just faded within a second.
	It was completely disappeared.
	Oh God.
	That's an incredible story.
	Beautiful.
	It's changed my life as far as the way I perceive other life forms such as the animal world.
	I used to be an avid hunter and especially a farming hunter.
	And you're not now?
	No, not at all.
	I appreciate the story, sir.
	Brad, that's what I mean.
	Stories like that.
	The book that we are working on, almost as we speak, is called Dog Miracles, a sequel to our Animal Miracles, which did so very well.
	And stories, as he just told, they come in and they have the same effect on most people.
	It changes their viewpoint, their perspective, just as it did this gentleman's.
	It changed his point of view.
	A hunter no more.
	A hunter no more, or recognizing dogmatically before animals don't have souls, animals don't
	have spirits, and now considering that the same God who put the breath into
	humans put the same breath of life into the animals. I believe animals have
	souls, Brad. Oh, I do too.
	I have three cats, and they're all very individual souls.
	Personalities, souls, slash.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Brad Steiger and Art Bell.
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	Going once.
	Hello.
	Hello?
	Yes, you are there.
	Go ahead.
	This is Bill from West Palm.
	West Palm Beach, Florida?
	Yes, sir.
	Hi, Bill.
	Good morning, gentlemen.
	Good morning.
	That's a related story to you, and I'll try to do it as quickly as possible.
	Approximately four years ago, within a period of 14 months, I lost every member of my family.
	I had the great fortune of being a veteran, and it took such a toll that I lost my business and whatnot, so the Veterans Administration stood behind me.
	They found that I was bipolar.
	For those who don't know, maybe they understand it as manic-depressive.
	In any case, they gave me a tremendous amount of prescription drugs that they had to readjust, readjust, readjust.
	Over this four year period of time something that I kept to myself because I was afraid
	of possibly being put away or what not, being bipolar I sleep about three or four hours
	a night and at the period that I wake up I lay there with my eyes closed and I meet and
	see and talk to in very many different situations all the members of my family.
	Now this may sound strange, it may not be a scary ghost story to some, maybe they think
	it's just psychosomatic, but a couple of months ago they decided to do a sleep study test
	at the University of Miami.
	On you?
	Yes, in conjunction with the Veterans Administration.
	Right.
	And they found that the REM sleep showed up, but only approximately an hour, maybe three and a half hours of actual sleep.
	But keep in mind it was on a camera at all times.
	Right.
	I had three and a half more hours, which when the minute I woke up and got out of bed, I started tape recording what was happening, which I've written down many times before.
	And as I taped, they went through all of the electrodes and saw a reaction, but noticed that at no point was I asleep through that three-hour period of time, three-plus hours.
	I would love to ask you, Mr. Guest, have you ever heard of anything quite like that?
	That's really, my friend, the essence of Shadow World, and I'm just fascinated by what you're sharing, and I really appreciate it.
	What you're talking about is this extended reality that we all can attain.
	Now, not everyone wants to, but it's obviously bringing you solace.
	It's bringing you a sense of, we overuse the word closure, but it's really extending a reality that you choose to perpetuate that gives you strength and sustenance to go on with your life.
	And I really appreciate your sharing that, because this sort of thing is what many people do and talk about, but they weren't tested the way you were.
	It wasn't recorded, but they make the same claims.
	Here's a real quick fact from Hawaii.
	When Brad Steiger comes on, would you please ask him to discuss human beings being able to create their own reality?
	That's a large part of the book, too.
	And I should mention, I do have a chapter on animal spirits, just as we were discussing.
	Was it Bill, your name?
	Well, he's gone now.
	But I really appreciated his sharing that, because that is, again, some research, some solid research that demonstrates exactly what we're talking about.
	Well, if I were now, he said he was diagnosed bipolar, but if you were seeing members of your family or departed ones, and you told this to the average psychiatrist, you're going to come away with a definite diagnosis.
	Oh, absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Brad Steiger and Art Bell.
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Getting a little tense here.
	Now, where are you?
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	I'm in Covington, Kentucky, which is across from Cincinnati.
	That would be 55 KRC.
	Near corporate headquarters, actually.
	Oh, I guess.
	Well, there.
	Welcome.
	They could be next door, and I still wouldn't be near them.
	Let's see.
	Okay.
	I just want to mention one thing to you.
	There's something that you wondered about on the air, and this is kind of spectral, but you asked one time why George W. Bush's face creeps you out.
	Yep.
	I noticed.
	Well, now he has mentioned it.
	A couple times, and this happened, I mean, I noticed the same thing before you mentioned it, but I know why.
	Um, I'm pretty good with caricatures, and if you notice, if you ever see the advertisement for Scream, Scream 2, those teenage movies?
	Yes.
	They use that spectral image, the hooded kind of ghostly figure with the melting kind of features, like holes for eyes and a mouth that's turned down.
	Yeah, from the painting, the screen.
	It's, well, now it's a different image, it's hooded, it's kind of like... No, that's it, that's it.
	Well, anyway, um, but he has that same set in his features.
	The mouth turned down the, on the ends.
	Well, you know, like I say, that's what I know that creeps me out about his face.
	It's almost like it's sucking in.
	Well, I can't help it.
	Um, well, like I say, I'm pretty good with caricatures if I picked up on it, but here's the story.
	All right.
	Um, okay.
	Uh, this happened in 1971 and I, in a whole Um, station wagon full of other kids.
	We were going to a concert.
	It was the Moody Blues.
	It was that real terrific concert.
	Real famous Moody Blues concert.
	So, okay, it was basically a car full of hippie kids.
	And everybody was completely lucid.
	Especially me.
	I've never done drugs in my life.
	Um, the only person who maybe wasn't was one of the girls, one of the sisters in the front seat.
	Let's just say the have a nice day sisters.
	She was like choking and leaning out the car window because we were in traffic all backed
	up.
	So this is a scary story in a crowd.
	So we're all sitting there and none of the cars are moving and she's kind of having a
	nice day.
	I'm sitting shotgun in the second seat in the middle seat and I just happen to glance
	over and there's a man who we would have considered some older guy like in his 20's.
	Just a nondescript guy with sort of dark hair and a mustache and a little red sports car.
	So I know I just kind of glanced at him but apparently almost everybody in the car must
	have glanced at him.
	I don't know why.
	And here's where it happens.
	It's kind of short.
	He looks at us and out of his chest about where his heart was, his hands were on the
	wheel was a little orange ball of white.
	On his chest?
	It just seemed to come out where his heart was.
	His hands were on the wheel.
	Like I said, we're all lucid except for Peggy in the front.
	So, the thing just rapidly spread.
	I mean, it just got big and bigger and it obliterated him.
	And it scared everybody.
	Of course, Peggy hopped in the car and didn't even so much as put a fingernail out the window.
	And everybody was saying, what was that?
	And then they thought, well, it's an arc.
	It's an arc.
	They thought it was a flashball.
	But the point was, it couldn't have been a flashball, and we don't know what it was.
	Never knew.
	I've mentioned it to a few people.
	Never could explain it.
	The only discrepancy here was I saw it as orange, and my best friend sitting next to me saw it as white.
	I couldn't tell you.
	The guy just hit a blank look, looked at us.
	Why we all looked at him, I don't know.
	He wouldn't have interested us.
	Older guy.
	So I don't know.
	What do you make of that?
	Well, that's the spirit mimics I was talking about.
	Oh?
	You see them on the street.
	You see them in odd places.
	And unless you really focus, you don't realize they look like us.
	They dress like us.
	What was the light?
	Yeah, the light.
	Again, traffic must have moved.
	No, no.
	This is described.
	Some people see it as orange.
	Some people see it as green.
	Some people see it as white.
	Was he trying to hurt us?
	No, I don't think so.
	They might be trying to study us.
	I don't know what they're up to.
	They didn't hurt you, did they?
	He was just trying to give us a little scare.
	I think you looked behind the mirror at the wrong time.
	I think it was just a synchronicity there.
	Maybe you were supposed to see it because it now stretched your universe.
	It stretched your reality.
	Farther than it had before, and you found out you didn't have to have a toque to do it.
	All right.
	I didn't.
	That's it.
	Thank you, dear.
	Bye-bye.
	Brand, hold on.
	We'll be right back.
	we're telling ghost stories with an expert music playing
	music playing music playing
	music playing music playing
	music playing in the Kingdom of Nigh, from West of the Rockies, Dial 1.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	1-800-825-5033. First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222 or use the wildcard
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	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
	Well, when you hear it from the lips of those who have experienced it, it all of a sudden seems very, very real.
	And it is.
	The shadow world, right here, right now.
	That's the name of Brad Steiger's latest book, Shadow World.
	You can get it on Amazon.com or probably in bookstores coming up shortly.
	It's exactly what we're talking about this morning.
	So if you get the opportunity, pick it up.
	If you have a computer, you can do that right now.
	If not, why wait for the bookstore?
	It'll be there shortly.
	More Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Here again is Art.
	Back down to the shadow world of Brad Seiger.
	All right, Brad, here we are.
	I have to mention, she said she was coming from a Moody Blues concert.
	That's right.
	The music of the Moody Blues, according to the questionnaire, That I have sent out since 1967, figure in a lot of people's mystical experiences.
	I play a lot of the Moody Blues, you know.
	Sherry bought me the complete collection of the Moody Blues last year.
	And I think there's something going on there.
	I know the first time I heard Nights in White Satin, I was in the car and I actually had to pull over.
	That group has touched something that seems to stimulate or otherwise encourage mystical experiences.
	I know.
	We've done a couple of seminars with Patrick Moran, the keyboardist for the group.
	Very tuned in spiritual group.
	Simply no question about it.
	I agree with you completely.
	As I mentioned, I use I use them all the time as bumper music.
	I don't know why.
	I know you do.
	I just do.
	And you're probably precipitating all kinds of mystical experiences.
	I'm sure.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Brad Steiger and Art Bell.
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	OK.
	OK.
	She's going to have to go do that.
	You're supposed to do that ahead of time, folks.
	When you get through, you have to be prepared to get that radio off right away or it'll confuse you.
	Hello.
	All right, go right ahead.
	Where are you?
	Rhode Island.
	Rhode Island?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	After my father had a heart attack, he wasn't in bed and resting.
	My mother had gone out shopping and there was nobody home in the house.
	When my mother came home, he had dozed off in the meantime, and my mother came home and he said to her, did you call my name?
	Were you calling me?
	And she said, no.
	She said, I've been out and I just came in.
	He said somebody was calling me in a whisper, whispering his name over and over, and I don't know what to make of it.
	My mother doesn't know what to make of it.
	This just recently happened?
	Oh, no.
	This was going back, oh, maybe like 18, 19 years ago.
	Oh, I see.
	And it stayed with you?
	Oh, yes.
	I'm curious, and I'm still wondering what Who's been calling him?
	Well, he passed away right after that.
	That's what I was going to ask you.
	Yeah, right after that, he had another heart attack.
	He went into the hospital, and he had a blood clot there, and he passed away.
	And he said somebody was calling him.
	They were calling his name in a whisper.
	They kept calling over and over, and he thought it was my mother, and she said, no, I was at the store.
	I just came back.
	Gotcha.
	And it is so eerie.
	And now, back to the best of Art Bell.
	It is, Yuri.
	There again, it could have been the angel of death preparing him, a loved one from the other side calling him home.
	It could have been any one of those things.
	The sound of a voice calling, again, that's how I wake up every morning.
	It's very pleasant.
	Female voice calls my name.
	Is that Sherry's voice?
	No.
	Is that a no?
	It's a voice that maybe would sound like a cross between my mother and Sherry, or a very pleasant woman's voice.
	but but you see that this has been happening since i was uh...
	intellect eight years old so i think that
	what long before but but again i
	these types of things It's the same voice I hear that tells me, don't go into a room or don't take an airplane or whatever.
	And again, you know, I realize when you fill out certain applications and it says, do you hear voices?
	I mean, I want to put doesn't everybody or, you know, it's a shame they don't.
	I mean, again, achieving a balance with the mystical experience and not, you know, going off the deep end, not being an extremist.
	We all have these abilities.
	We have that inner voice.
	We have that inner strength.
	We have that inner direction.
	And to me, I'm blessed in the regard, I suppose maybe the near-death experience when I was 11, where I have taken these things, not that I'm special, but that I'm blessed.
	And these are, I feel, aspects, facets that we all have That we should learn to utilize.
	If I'm a mystic, I'm a practical mystic, and I think we all have the potential to be that.
	My friend Sun Bear, the late medicine priest, said, you know, if your medicine, a word for magic, if your medicine can't grow corn, I don't want to hear about it.
	And that's been my approach, you know, that these gifts are for us to utilize With respect to the Great Spirit, the Great Mystery God, whatever you prefer.
	This is what it truly means to be human, is to utilize all the facets of our spirituality.
	Brad, Terrence McKenna, who just passed away, just literally hours ago, said, though he was full of hope, and He thought he was going on.
	He said, I feel, just hours before he died, he said, I feel death is close.
	And I wonder if most of us know, or we are called, or told, or somehow know, kind of like a meet Joe Black kind of thing, or maybe lesser than that, just a voice maybe, or an inner knowing.
	I'm sure a lot of people are.
	A lot of people are.
	Plus to the Rockies, you're on the air with Brad Steiger and Art Bell.
	Good morning.
	Hi, Brad.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi.
	It's a pleasure.
	Hard time picking out which one was most significant, but I think it was this.
	I have a question after that.
	My mother-in-law passed away in 1995 under very, very awful circumstances.
	And the task of emptying her house fell to me.
	And everything was gone.
	There were people helping me.
	We were taking a break, all in the front room, and I had lined up on a desk all of her music boxes.
	And we were all sitting there talking, and all of a sudden, all, I think there were like eight or nine of them, went off one right after the other and played.
	They were all turned off or wound down.
	They all went off at once?
	Well, within like a second of each other.
	And we all stopped and just looked at each other.
	And I took these home, and at various times in the next couple months, they kept doing the same thing.
	And one in particular was a music box dancers, dancing to a waltz, and that one just continued to keep doing that.
	I ended up selling all of them.
	Why did you sell them?
	Because it was perplexing.
	That's beautiful.
	I didn't see that there was any real purpose other than the fact that she was kind of like hanging around.
	But things progressed badly for me after that, including a divorce, blah, blah, blah.
	On the verge of losing my house and trying desperately to get a loan with no credit or anything.
	And one night I had a dream.
	I was having a dream and she appeared in this dream as though you had a TV on and a little box up in a corner.
	Okay.
	And she was dressed in all beige and gold and her hair was done up like she used to years and years ago.
	And she was smiling.
	She had something in one arm, and I was holding it, and I couldn't tell what it was.
	Her other hand was slightly held out, like, towards me, but not beckoning.
	And three days after that, I got an impossible loan, which saved my bacon.
	And I've had the feeling that she's sort of been hanging around.
	I think I said something about this on our show with the guy who was talking about angels.
	And I felt she's been watching me all this time.
	And I didn't know what the music box was going off meant.
	Well, now you do.
	The two were connected then?
	Right.
	And again, we know that angelic beings are with us.
	They may assume the appearance of a loved one.
	To be reassuring, or for you to identify.
	One can not be dogmatic, but generally speaking, as we understand it, angels are a creation apart from us, and we don't become angels when we die, but we can assume the role of a guide for a temporary time, or our image can be used by angelic beings To facilitate communication with those who are left behind.
	So her action in getting rid of the music boxes may have been premature or inappropriate?
	Unless there were circumstances.
	If she felt she were somehow holding the spirit, I could see that.
	Keeping the spirit earthbound or concerned with earthly things.
	But you know, that was her choice to sell them.
	I think here again, Obviously, no hard feelings, as she appeared to predicate the loan.
	Well, I would think that... Right.
	I would think that the spirit of a departed one would understand the fear.
	Of course.
	Sure.
	And then manifest in a different way, which appeared to have occurred.
	Right.
	First Time Caller line, you're on the air with Brad Steiger.
	Hi.
	Good morning, Art.
	Good morning, Mr. Steiger.
	Good morning.
	You're going to have to yell at us a little.
	You're not too loud.
	I was excited to hear you speak about spirit mimics.
	I've made some notes here so I can be as concise as possible.
	Good, good.
	Because this is a subject that some friends and I have kicked around for several years, and I'd like to present a little speculation to you and let you hear your take on it.
	Please do.
	From one figure that I heard several years ago, it's estimated that there have been probably something on the order of 20 billion people walk the face of the earth.
	And since men first stood upright, if you want to count from that time, you and I as individuals will probably see with our own eyes, as in passing in traffic, going to the store, probably no more than several hundreds of thousands of people in a lifetime.
	But actual exchange on an emotional, personal level, such as you do with a family member or with a friend, Or with a close co-worker.
	You may do no more than actually several hundred of those in a lifetime.
	For example, let me give you an example.
	If you're driving down the highway, you will pass, if you're a commuter like many people are, you'll pass and see thousands of people in cars.
	But if you have an accident with someone and you get out and you talk and you exchange and you have an interchange with them with some emotional context, then That person is differentiated from the other, the mass of people.
	It is not, therefore, necessary that although we count six billion people on the face of the earth today, it is not really necessary that all six billion of those people be actually sold beings such as you and I. Let's say that you and I are having an exchange.
	Let's say you came to my house and we sat down over drinks and we discussed something Laughed and joked about it.
	We would know that you and I are both soul beings because we're having an exchange.
	However, if you go to the Department of Motor Vehicles and have your license renewed, the person behind that counter may be pleasant, but they might as well be a well-programmed automaton because there's no soul-level exchange taking place.
	And as a result, it's perhaps possible That there really aren't any more than perhaps as little as maybe tens of thousands of real souls on the face of the earth.
	The rest of this is all here for our edification.
	I admit, sir, that some DMV people I've encountered have seemed somewhat soulless, but I think that's going a little far.
	It's just a speculation.
	It's not necessary for there to be six billion souls.
	So, his stuff, and when he talked about... Now, if you want to talk about IRS people... Well, yeah, we don't know.
	We're talking about serious lack of soul here.
	You present an interesting philosophical observation that doesn't... I find it interesting.
	It's not what I'm talking about with spirit mimics, because there's a definite exchange there, my friend, that seems designed, you know, whether it's to enlarge the universe or cause people to become More in tune to themselves, or maybe just to scare the heck out of them.
	I don't know.
	And that in itself is a revelation, isn't it?
	They need not be non-sentient beings.
	They just don't necessarily have to be fully human beings.
	They perform a role like a classroom.
	They fill a role for us to learn in.
	That's closer to what I'm talking about.
	Your other observation, I suppose, in a sense, you know, They're the extras in a movie.
	There you go.
	They're the extras.
	Or the extras in a dream.
	Exactly.
	Isn't it fascinating when we have a dream of walking in a crowded street and we see thousands or hundreds or whatever people all supplied by our dream machinery?
	So again, it comes back, you know, when are we dreaming and when are we awake?
	And do we have some of these experiences while we're in a semi-transit state?
	Well, I'll turn loose the line.
	I enjoyed speaking with you.
	Well, I enjoyed sharing your sharing with us.
	Thank you very much, and take care.
	So, that was closer toward the end of what you meant by Spirit Mimic.
	Toward the end, yeah.
	The other very interesting philosophical observation, and you know, something to chew around and discuss.
	I think it speaks again the isolation we have.
	The Spirit Mimic, though, Sometimes I think they're teaching.
	Sometimes, I don't know.
	It's as if we intrude into another dimension.
	I think we have to look at time as another dimension.
	I think sometimes we do time traveling and not realize it.
	That's going to be tomorrow night's subject, by the way.
	I've got somebody on time travel.
	On the other side, and I use that term very loosely, as I understand it, Brad, there really is no time as we perceive time on this side.
	in eternal now, I call it.
	But yet, when we enter that, well, we've all had the experience, you know,
	where we felt like a dream lasted all night.
	I mean, it just...
	Oh, yes.
	And we found out, you know, we've only been asleep for five minutes.
	Or conversely, the other has happened.
	So, time is that strangely elastic or strangely condensed phenomena
	that we don't understand.
	So then sleep, in a sense, is that famous little slice of death that they talk about.
	Death perhaps meaning simply a transitional place where there really is no time, linear as we understand it.
	Right, right.
	There the psyche is free to rise above the normal limitations of time and space.
	And I suspect that... I read a statistic one time that And I don't know how this was demonstrated, but it was fascinating that whether it's watching telephone poles go by or whatever, how often we enter trance without really realizing it.
	Maybe several times every day.
	Yes, yes.
	All right, Brad, hold on.
	We'll be right back.
	From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast.
	Dancing white satin, never reaching the end.
	Letters I've written, never meaning to send Beauty I'd always missed with these eyes before
	Just what the truth is, I can't say anymore Cause I love you
	Now listen here baby, she said to me Just meet me at the alcoholic party at three
	Cause I'm ready, yeah yeah yeah I'm ready Oh oh oh I'm ready
	I'm gonna show you how to sing the blues Want to take a ride?
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	to the Rockies 1-800-825-5033. First time callers may reach our at 1-775-727-1222. The
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	line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 866-866-727-1222.
	Good morning.
	We're here, Brad Saiger's here.
	Good morning.
	We're here, Brad Siger's here.
	We're talking about gas things that go bump in the night, huh?
	Oh The new book by Brad Steiger is called Shadow World.
	You can catch it at Amazon.com.
	Now, from the Kingdom of Nigh, more Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Here again, is Art.
	Brad, welcome back.
	Thank you.
	All right.
	Pretty interesting stuff.
	It really is amazing what people come up with, and this is really just, I guess, underscores your survey.
	I mean, all you've got to do is open the lines, and here it comes.
	Absolutely amazing.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Art Bell and Brad Steiger.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Art.
	Hi there.
	It's an honor to talk with you.
	And with you.
	Pardon?
	And with you, I assume.
	Oh, thank you.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I like your sense of humor about things.
	You have to have, you know, because I've been through the whole gamut like you've been through.
	Mm-hmm.
	But I do have a ghost story.
	Good.
	But can I just say one thing to Art?
	Sure.
	Art, do you remember Clarity, the ghost story?
	Yes.
	Wasn't that a good one?
	Yes, very good.
	Very good.
	And it's funny because our politicians here in Canada I have a ghost story, one of many.
	C20, the Clarity Act, to secede from Canada, you know, Quebec?
	Oh yes.
	And I thought, well, that's dead.
	A lot of good ghost stories in Canada.
	I have a ghost story, one of many.
	Let's see.
	I was going out with a fella, and he owned a reclusive farmhouse, and his ex-wife boarded
	I know the name of the ghost, everything.
	it and they were on friendly terms so she would come to the farm but when I arrived
	the first time I walked into the back porch I was with his wife and of course the boyfriend
	and the first thing I said was I know who's here.
	I know the name of the ghost everything I knew his background and she said how could
	Because we never mentioned it to you.
	And I said, well, I can't explain it.
	I just know.
	And she was telling me the mother-in-law had been pushed down quite a few flights of stairs, probably about 15 stairs, and they had to take her to the hospital.
	She recovered.
	But this ghost was quite mean.
	but i'd just told him right off the bat that i what they're going to take any nonsense from up
	and it turned out i'm telling you i had a relationship with
	louis that would have made okay
	and he was a pirate what do you mean by relationship
	because i've been cut up to him and i knew he was there right away
	because he was the goat that played a lot of
	nasty little tricks on everybody.
	Like whenever we'd have, we'd always have the gang from the city over at the farm.
	And the company would wake up and say all these nasty things happened.
	You know, like evil voices.
	Right.
	Similar story, I know.
	The ghost would give them a hot foot during the night.
	Yeah, yeah.
	But with him, he liked me.
	And I liked him.
	I didn't care if he pushed the mother-in-law down the stairs.
	I really didn't.
	And the boyfriend said, oh jeez, I wish... You mean you weren't being judgmental?
	No.
	She was a real love.
	Anyway, God bless her though, you know.
	But I had a great relationship.
	He took care of me.
	I was doing some farming, and I had a small hobby farm, and it was a wonderful time I spent there.
	And, for example, when I did all my farm work and I would have a nap in the afternoon, he would tuck me in, where the bedding would be, you know, at your foot, and I could just see it rolling over.
	Okay, you're a strong-willed, matter-of-fact person, and that worked for you, but I wouldn't advise people to try this at home.
	Oh, no, no, this is for somebody who, like, I mean, I feel I've had, I'll call it what you have.
	Whatever that may be, a spirituality.
	Whatever that is.
	Yeah, and a very wonderful experience since I've been about three years old.
	I'm 45 now.
	But a lot of hell, too.
	I went through the hell part with demons and all that.
	Oh yeah.
	Oh, out of control.
	But now I'm at a wonderful, I'm at the same plateau you're at.
	Well, at a nice even level where it all meshes together.
	Isn't that a wonderful feeling?
	It is.
	Not to be smug.
	No, no.
	Because it takes perpetual work at staying balanced.
	Yes, I was smug then.
	I was, but he never harmed me.
	I was smug when I challenged the entity that lifted me in the air.
	You know, and I often think of you.
	Geez, I forget your name who hosts the show, Art.
	I'm sorry.
	That's all right.
	I'm nervous.
	When you were doing your astral projection in France?
	Yes.
	Oh, you know, like your first time is kind of weird, isn't it?
	It was weird.
	Well, yes, dear.
	It was nothing I volunteered for.
	It just happened.
	So, bear in mind, I didn't bring it on, I didn't wish it on, I didn't feel it coming, and it didn't announce itself in any way.
	It just happened to me.
	It was like that.
	That's the way it is.
	If you had been trying... Over the years, Art, prior to that, you had expressed that you would be open if such a thing happened.
	But if you had been trying... Actually, that's not even really true, Brad.
	What I had said is, There have been a few times when I've come to this point where I start to feel this vibratory nastiness that frankly makes me nauseous.
	I'm a control freak and I don't like that kind of thing.
	It makes me feel like I'm going to lose consciousness or lose control.
	I know exactly because I have the same aversion.
	And so I fight the hell out of it.
	But what happened to me in France, there was no announcement, there was no Precursor, there was nothing.
	It was just, hello there.
	Well, I stand corrected, but the point I was making is, I hear from so many people who are trying so hard to astro-project, and I think that almost legislates against it.
	Yeah, I tend to agree with you.
	East of the Rockies, you're on here with Brad Steiger and Art Bell.
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Florida.
	Okay.
	I listen to you on two radio stations, actually.
	I work in Orlando and I live in Lakeland.
	Stereo?
	Yeah, so I get you in 580 and 1430.
	Well, anyway, on my way home I can listen to you.
	Then I get to switch stations about halfway home.
	I don't miss a bit.
	Anyway, my story is kind of second hand.
	It did not happen to me, but it happened to my wife.
	She told me the story, but she didn't want to come on the air.
	To tell you guys.
	Okay.
	So I'm kind of doing this second hand.
	You're her proxy then.
	Yeah.
	She was in high school and she was rehearsing for, well first off she was in Carlisle, Pennsylvania and her grandfather was in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
	And it was a few months after he had died she was practicing for a play they were doing.
	The play was Godspell.
	and it was being performed at a church.
	She saw her grandfather on three separate occasions, twice during rehearsals and then
	the third time for the actual show.
	Her grandfather had said before he had died that he was looking forward to coming and
	seeing her perform and being in this show because they had known months ahead that they
	were going to be putting on this show.
	The first time she saw him, I'm not exactly sure where she saw him at but it was in the
	church and they exchanged words.
	Basically all she told me was that the words that he gave her was that he couldn't stay
	very long and this was going to be a short visit.
	Each time that she saw him he was accompanied by someone else.
	That she knew?
	No.
	The other person she didn't know who that was and she ascribes that to being an angel.
	She says that the person with her grandfather was an angel.
	Anyway, the first time he said that this was going to be a short visit and they walked off.
	She followed and they went into the men's room.
	She wasn't paying attention to what room it was that they were going in.
	She just walked on into the men's room and there was nobody in there.
	She followed them on in and there wasn't anybody there.
	The second time she saw him.
	It was pretty much like the first visit, but this time he said that when he was leaving he said, you can't follow me.
	So she didn't even try at that time.
	Then they just walked off into the sanctuary of the church and she just stayed behind.
	The third time is the most interesting one.
	The others have been pretty interesting to me.
	I want to hear you top them.
	I'm sorry?
	I say that it's been very interesting to me so far.
	I want to hear how you can top them.
	Well, this one, it just gives me goosebumps when she tells it.
	And I kind of like, you know, are you telling me the truth here?
	But I believe her.
	She's my wife.
	She said the third time was there were two chairs near the front row or in the front row during the performance that were empty.
	And initially they were empty.
	And then she saw her grandfather.
	Like I said, this was in a church so she wasn't on a stage.
	She was pretty close to the front row.
	This time it was a different man that was with him, not the same one that was with him before.
	Her grandfather introduced him saying, this is the Alpha and the Omega, listen to him.
	And then this other person started talking to her.
	She perceived that to be Jesus, the Alpha and Omega being Jesus.
	She said he just spoke volumes in what in reality was a short period of time.
	A matter of seconds.
	A lot of information hit her all at once.
	Other people saw a light.
	They said they had seen a light, but they didn't see any people.
	But that's what she saw.
	Towards the end of the conversation she asked to not be visited like this.
	She didn't want to be one of those people that are frequently visited by angels or spirits or whatever.
	This is kind of overwhelming for her and she asked that she not be one of those people And then she said, but of course, you know, I'll do whatever you want me to.
	You know, your will be done, not mine, you know, kind of thing.
	That is the proper thing to say.
	And Christ, she said that the other person, which we perceived to be Christ, smiled at her and said, you know, basically, you're right, my will will be done, but this will be the last time.
	Well, to follow that up, you know, she perceived, because he said that would be the last time, I thought she wouldn't have to worry about ghosts anymore.
	Well, to drive that point home, a few years ago she had a friend of hers that she worked with that she claimed that she had a haunted house.
	They were filled with friendly ghosts and she really liked her ghosts.
	A lot of people do.
	And she liked the fact that she had a haunted house.
	So she invited my wife over to hopefully witness the ghost activity.
	Well, my wife went over, they had lunch, and then she left, not witnessing anything.
	And the lady, I don't know what time span, whether it was the next day or several days later, I'm not sure, but said to her, what did you do?
	She said, my ghosts are not active anymore.
	They're just now slowly becoming more active, but the time that you were there, nothing happened, and for hours or days later, Nothing happened.
	I think I've got it.
	What do you make out of all that, Brent?
	I think what I make out of that, again, the power that was with it, the energy that was with it, sort of defused the energy of the spirits that were normally there.
	God?
	Well, you know, we have a book, He Walks With Me, True Encounters With Jesus, that Sherry and I did.
	Here again, the promise of Jesus, where two or three are gathered together, and he said, I shall be always with you.
	So, again, the belief that one can see a form of Jesus, a facet of Jesus, an aspect of Jesus, is surely, I think, acceptable to most Christians.
	That would suggest, though, that all of these things, or those things, were outside of God.
	Or anti-God, or... Not necessarily.
	They may have only been quietly respectful while this energy was there.
	Interesting.
	All right.
	Wilson of the Rockies, you're on the air with Brad Steiger and Art Bell.
	Good morning.
	Yeah, hi guys.
	This is Tim in Phoenix.
	Tim, hi.
	How you doing?
	About 15 years ago, I was staying at my parents' house, and my cousin Scotty was there too.
	There in Phoenix?
	Yeah, in Phoenix.
	And we went for a walk to the store, just a block down the road.
	And we saw all these people gathered around the intersection.
	And it's no street light, just like a stop sign type area.
	And here in the middle of the street, we saw two little white tennis shoes in a crosswalk.
	And about ten yards in front of it was something covered in a green blanket.
	And then something just in front of that was covered in some black, hefty bag material.
	And this lady was struck in the crosswalk.
	She had been long overdue in the neighborhood.
	She was in her 80s and she had her little shopping cart there.
	I'm having one of those out-of-the-body experiences like you are.
	Can I touch my breath?
	Sure.
	Okay.
	All right.
	That's buzzing.
	I get this buzzing whenever I call you.
	Just relax.
	Take a good deep breath.
	There we go.
	That's good.
	She was knocked out of her shoes.
	Killed right in the parking lot.
	She was there for the longest time.
	Normally, I would think that somebody gets killed in the street.
	The guy with the chalk comes and outlines the body.
	They take her off.
	She was out there for a couple of hours.
	I'm saying, man, with all these neighbors gawking around her, I'd be pissed off at them looking at me.
	Out in the middle of the street, there I am all over, you know, so to speak.
	And I was saying to myself, if I was her ghost, you know, hovering over that crowd, I'd come back and fool with the streetlights, you know.
	Just to show my peak.
	Next night I took a walk over to the convenience store to get a beer.
	Not like I'm a heavy drinker, mind you.
	And these lights that I imagined, just in that area, just this little grid section, We're completely knocked out.
	I said, what in David's name happened here?
	So I went over to the Circle K, which is right next to where the lights and all this pizza place usually is lit up.
	But just this little grid was out, and they were talking about it.
	They said something messed up the timer for the lights, and just in that little area.
	So I don't know if I gave the ghost a good idea.
	Was it telekinesis on my part?
	I'm not sure either, but thank you, sir.
	I've heard a million stories, Brad, of people walking by streetlights and having them go out.
	I guess you've heard those, too.
	Oh, yeah.
	I have no idea what would cause such a phenomenon, but it's very widespread.
	Yeah.
	I mean, I've had story after story after story, and maybe there is a logical explanation for it, but I don't know what it would be.
	I don't know, because it happens to me all the time.
	You too?
	It happens to you?
	Yes.
	No idea what would cause that.
	No, because it's not something you're thinking, I'm going to put that streetlight out.
	It just, you go under it and it goes out.
	PK energy of some kind.
	Yeah, I think it's the energy.
	I know, I stopped doing it because when I would go into department stores, the burglar alarm or whatever, Would give me vertigo.
	And I would point at the wall and say, oh, your alarm is driving.
	And, of course, they'd get frightened because, you know, am I casing the joint or what?
	Or how did I know the alarm box was there?
	Indeed.
	Hold on.
	We'll be right back.
	Miracles?
	Or not?
	I don't know.
	It's certainly the unknown.
	Maybe one day we'll put it all together.
	Or maybe we're not supposed to.
	We'll be right back.
	So we're making love No, I would not give you false hope
	On this strange and mournful day But the mother and child reunion
	Is only a motion away Oh, the bitter garden of my heart
	Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-9-1-800.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	To reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them
	dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
	Mother and child reunion is only a motion away.
	You know, it is said that that means nothing more than a person who wrote this song, Mr. Simon.
	Who had chicken and some eggs on a plate.
	That's it.
	Nothing more complicated than that.
	The Mother and Child Reunion.
	That close.
	Think about it.
	Now, from the Kingdom of Nine, more Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Here again, is Art.
	We're with this author of Shadow World, available on Amazon.com and soon bookstores across America, I am sure.
	Brad, welcome back.
	Thank you.
	Doing something a little different tonight, letting you tell Brad stories.
	It's kind of the other way around, and just getting a comment from Brad.
	I love it.
	It is different.
	I was reminded when the lady from Canada was saying about the mean ghost that played tricks on people.
	Right.
	Another Canadian, or she's Canadian now.
	Clarissa Bernhardt has been a dear friend for many, many years, and she told of the one place where she was staying where the spirit would give people a hot foot, literally burn the feet of people sleeping.
	Great.
	And it turned out to be a spirit of a Native American who resented that this home had been built on his tribal land.
	So she, being Cherokee, Was able to convince him that he was now in the shadow world, in the land of the grandfathers, grandmothers, and that now other people were occupying and explain the situation.
	And she kind of developed a relationship as this woman did.
	But anyway, he stopped playing pranks and especially burning people's feet.
	And again, people came to accept this spirit energy in a very positive way.
	Hot feet.
	First time on our line, you're on the air with Brad Steiger and Art Bell.
	Good morning.
	Hello, Art and Brad.
	How are y'all tonight?
	Just fine.
	Where are you?
	This is Glenn, and I'm calling from Austin, Texas on KJFK 98.9 FM.
	That's the one.
	That's it.
	I just wanted to say, I read somewhere about these streetlights that some cities will put them to where they go off occasionally, individually, and it saves like so many thousands of dollars.
	But anyway, I thought I'd throw that in.
	And also, I wanted to ask Art, that song, The Ghost and the Wishing Well?
	Yes.
	Who sings that?
	Gordon Lightfoot.
	Oh, is it Gordon Lightfoot?
	Yes.
	Okay, I didn't know.
	And now, back to the best of Art Bell.
	All right, I had a quick little story here.
	I was living with my grandmother for a little while, and my grandfather had passed away about probably five years before this time.
	I had the same room my grandfather had passed away in.
	He had a heart attack and died there.
	Anyway, at night, occasionally, several different times this happens, I'd be laying there just about to go to sleep, and I'd feel like a weight on the corner of the bed, like somebody had just sat down there.
	Of course, there wasn't anyone there.
	But I could definitely feel a weight go down on the corner of the bed as if someone was sitting down.
	It was really weird.
	I kind of looked, but there wasn't anything there.
	Could you see a depression?
	I didn't ever see a depression.
	I could just feel it.
	It would be dark in the room and everything, but you just feel this go down.
	It was really strange.
	It turns out that's the actual corner of the bed that my grandfather used to always sit down on when he was taking off his shoes before he went to bed at night.
	This was the same bed, same room, everything.
	It was really creepy.
	Yeah, well, again, it's your sensitivity, and whatever this is, I remember early on when I was in high school and staying with a friend, and, well, you can sleep in this bed, and I rolled in and just sat there, and all of a sudden I felt, you know, an ice-cold body next to me, and I jumped up and said, what is this?
	I'm not sleeping here.
	And then I found out that the person's mother had died in that bed a year or so before.
	But again, I could feel the coldness.
	I could feel the body there.
	Oh, man.
	Well, I tell you, I'm going to rush out and get your book.
	It sounds really interesting.
	Thank you.
	I'm going to pick that up.
	All right.
	Speaking of rushing out and getting it to Brad, they can't exactly do that yet in the bookstores.
	Soon, maybe, but not yet.
	I would say it's going to be there.
	Knowing the vagaries of publishing.
	They'll say like April 10th, but maybe April 4th or 5th it's going to be there.
	And it depends on parts of the country.
	Sometimes my friends in Ohio will send me a book before I have it.
	It's strange.
	Book distribution is a strange phenomena.
	It belongs in the shadow world itself.
	It really does.
	I know all about it.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Brad Steiger and Art Bell.
	Top of the morning to you.
	Top of the morning to you, sir.
	And thank you so much, gentlemen, for yet another installment of Ghost Stories, which just happened to be my third one with Mr. Bell.
	In fact, the previous caller had mentioned Clarity.
	I am the gentleman who brought Clarity home.
	And this is something I've had many experiences in my life, but one of the... You want to tell that?
	What, the Denton, Texas experience?
	Yes.
	If you wish.
	I mean, no problem.
	I wish.
	I'd like to hear it.
	And I tell you what, sir, it's weird.
	I always have to take a deep breath before I do this.
	But what had happened was I just moved from Anchorage, Alaska, and I had a friend of mine here in Fort Worth, Texas invite me to a party.
	And my mom had just left on a little trip, so it was kind of like my first time in her new car, and kind of going to a party and all like that, a little male bonding.
	But I meet this girl there, a very nice young lady who just gives me the name Clarity.
	And she was about maybe 17 or 18 years old.
	And we kind of parted ways after the party, and she said she needed a ride home.
	And at the time, I thought, oh, no problem.
	You know, I'm thinking to myself, this is, you know, a positive experience here.
	So we're heading back to Grapevine, Texas, which is, ironically, should be about a 30-minute drive.
	And instead, it wanted to be about an hour and a half into it.
	We start looking up, and we start seeing signs for Oklahoma.
	And at that point, I'm kind of thinking, well, This is not too good, but she says, hey, I know this little town just off to the right here called Denton, Texas.
	I used to live there, and I'm thinking, well, hey, a little familiar surrounding sounds very good at this point.
	It's about 3 a.m.
	in the morning.
	So we arrive in Denton, Texas, and we're driving around, and she goes, well, we need to go over to an apartment complex.
	And we go to the apartment complex, and she goes, OK, I'm thinking to myself, well, we're just going to go to a friend's house and make a phone call.
	And anyways, she goes, well first let's go over this hill.
	So we kind of go over the hill and I'm looking across and I see nothing but yet a graveyard sitting there.
	And at this point, sir, you're thinking to yourself, well it's three in the morning and you've got a nice young lady, but we're going to the graveyard.
	I've never been much for that, but she says, come on, let me show you a few things.
	My family's names in here and like that, but that part does interest me.
	So to make a long story short, we're kind of tooling around in the graveyard and I'm At this point I'm starting to, how do you say, clarity is starting to come to me because the vodka is starting to wear off and all that and I'm starting to get that eerie feeling.
	And I'm looking up and I've always been very much in admire of the full moon and it was just an absolutely gorgeous full moon that night.
	And Art and I had talked about this before, the blood still Texas night, where literally just there is no sound whatsoever.
	And I'm looking up in the air and I see the moon going and Boy, this is just really beautiful.
	Suddenly, out of nowhere, seven white birds, literally like doves, attached to each other, were floating, kind of like almost in a wave.
	They were just lightly floating up towards the moon.
	I'm thinking, boy, this is just truly beautiful.
	All of a sudden, from the back, I'm just kind of standing, and all of a sudden, in the back of me, I hear the girl that I was with start quoting Bible prophecy about the return of the seven birds on the very still night.
	I'm starting to get this sensation running down my spine as she's quoting this Bible prophecy.
	And suddenly, at the moment, her voice kind of trails off and she finishes the prophecy.
	I just kind of like, OK, snap out of it, I'll turn around, she's gone.
	I'm like, OK, not good.
	You know, 3.30 in the morning, you know, prophecy kind of running, running a bit of a chill.
	So, then I go out, you know, hard target search, I look around, no sign of her.
	And like I mentioned to Art earlier, I said, you know, it looks kind of strange, you know, 3.30 in the morning, I'm standing on a hill in Texas screaming for clarity.
	At that point, I basically go looking for a map to at least find a way home.
	One thing I've always been is very inquisitive and kind of heisty.
	I want to follow up on things.
	I went back to that same spot two years later.
	And what inspired it was when one of the gates to the actual entrance to the graveyard had two huge, humongous stone pillars.
	Well, one of them was knocked over.
	And what kind of gave me the biggest chill was before we had the birds experience, she said that her truck had knocked that big pillar over.
	And I'm thinking, well, maybe, you know, a wild night in Texas and it kind of damaged the truck, but she never went into anything farther.
	I went back two years later, went to a Texaco down the street, talked to a gentleman there who was behind the counter, and I'm saying, sir, you know, I'd met a girl here, and I'd returned her, you know, and she basically just ran off in the graveyard.
	Her name was Clarity, and he goes, well, sir, nobody ever goes by that graveyard ever since the girl died.
	What do you mean, die?
	I guess it was graduation night or something like that.
	They were having a wild party.
	They took the truck over the hill and wound up smashing into the pillar and wound up killing the driver, which was the young girl.
	Since then, nobody's ever been by there.
	I'm almost thinking maybe I returned her back home.
	That was something that truly gave me a chill.
	I apologize.
	It definitely gives me a chill thinking about it right now.
	It truly does.
	And then to make another long story short, the reason why I called was I had become a hotel manager about 10 years later.
	And I had experience where we had about a four-story hotel.
	We were building it, putting it together and all that.
	And for some reason, I never wanted to walk on top of roofs or get on top of high buildings or anything.
	But one night, I'm all alone by myself.
	There's maybe five people in the hotel.
	And my maintenance guy just showed me the entrance to the roof.
	So I'm thinking, well, curiosity kills the cat.
	I go up on the roof and I'm kind of walking around just kind of seeing what's up there and suddenly out of the corner of my eye I catch what looks like somebody standing in the corner.
	I'm like, no, this can't be.
	I walk around the corner and there's this young lady standing there just standing right on the very corner of the building.
	It's probably about a four-story building.
	And I'm like, what's going on here?
	Ma'am, can I help you?
	She's just standing there and I literally walk up to her and she turns around and she goes, don't come any closer.
	And I go, what?
	What are you doing?
	And she's about 16 years old.
	She goes, you know, she goes into the whole spiel about the parents not understanding her.
	She's having trouble like that.
	And I said, you know, look, and I did the whole, you know, please, there's more to life than you can possibly know.
	Please do this like that.
	And she turns around.
	I lunge at her, grab her by the... She's wearing this long Winnie the Pooh-like night shirt.
	Grab her by the Winnie the Pooh night shirt as she's starting to tumble over.
	Grab her.
	She's only maybe, she feels like maybe 70 pounds at that.
	And then at that point, I grab her, go running back down towards the entrance to get downstairs.
	Go downstairs.
	As I'm running through the hall with this girl in my hand, I'm thinking to myself, you know, who is this woman that I just grabbed off the roof?
	A door opens up.
	A woman steps out.
	She goes, my God, what are you doing with my daughter?
	And I said, ma'am, your daughter was just standing on the roof wanting to jump off the roof.
	I go to return her daughter.
	She walks back in there.
	I'm thinking, OK, this is fine.
	I said, ma'am, you really need to get your daughter some help.
	This is truly something you need to look into.
	So I'm thinking, OK, everything is taken care of right the next morning.
	I go to check my register and all that.
	I got nobody in the hotel.
	They're all businessmen.
	So I go start doing the door-to-door thing.
	I knock on this guy's door.
	He answers the door and he looks at me and he goes, what are you talking about?
	I said, sir, I just returned.
	I saw this woman.
	She came running out of your door.
	Your daughter was standing on the roof.
	I'm sure I sounded like a blithering idiot.
	He goes, what are you talking about?
	My wife and daughter died several years ago.
	I go, no sir, no.
	I'm saying that your daughter was standing on my roof.
	and your wife came out and said it was her daughter.
	I'm like, wait a minute, this is the third time this has happened.
	He says, I don't know, for some reason this is it.
	Somebody comes up running up there and they find my daughter on the road.
	He says, son, they died like five years ago.
	I don't know why but they just keep coming back.
	I'm like, I don't know why but I just keep getting involved in these little moments.
	Well a lot of people do.
	If you pick up a copy of Shadow World, you see several stories very similar to the one
	In Chicago, there's one called Resurrection Mary.
	And again, people swear.
	They meet her at a dance, they dance, they take her home, and it ends up in the cemetery.
	This is called the Phantom Hitchhiker in the urban legends.
	But there are enough people who swear they've actually had these experiences, and they have The new detail, the way you've described it.
	So again, whether these are spirit mimics, whether these are entities that are repeating the same pattern, whether the husband retained this memory and projected it and you somehow, because of your sensitivity, interacted with it.
	You know, we could theorize, but these experiences are real and they do happen to people.
	I do thank you, gentlemen, so much for providing the format for this, because these are things that a lot of people, I think, as you said, we all have as a child, but we somehow lose it as an adult.
	That's right.
	Good night, my friend, and thank you.
	Thanks for sharing that.
	All I know is, Brad, I've done enough of these shows to know, as a flood comes in tonight, whatever it is, It's real.
	Oh, it is.
	It's as real, as I said in the opening to Dreamland, as the air we breathe.
	We may not see it, or we may only see it from the corner of our eye, or sort of half see it.
	Right.
	But it's there.
	It's there.
	It is there.
	See if we have time.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Brad Steiger and Art Bell.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	Where are you?
	I am in New York City, in Brooklyn, actually.
	New York City.
	All right, good.
	Yes.
	No, I had it.
	My name is Jennifer.
	You don't ever get to see Regis Philbin, do you?
	I don't.
	Him walking down the street?
	No.
	You mean the show in general?
	No, no, no.
	I'm not walking down the street.
	I was kidding.
	Anyway, go ahead.
	Well, anyway, I had an experience several years ago.
	It was in 94.
	And I don't know if I'm even allowed to talk about this.
	I was having sex.
	It's crazy.
	Actually, earlier in the evening, I was coming home with my boyfriend, and a rainstorm was about to happen, a heavy thunderstorm.
	Right.
	And we went to the house.
	His house is actually, when you enter the house, this is in Chicago, his house was his apartment.
	When you enter the house, you walk straight into the kitchen.
	And then from the kitchen you're straight into the little one bedroom, not one bedroom
	but studio part of the apartment.
	But it was very long.
	And there was one window by where his couch was and the chair.
	I think it was just maybe two chairs.
	Then the wall goes with no windows all the way to the other end.
	I mean it must be about seven feet.
	And then at the very end of that, that's where his bed was, there was no windows.
	There was only one window in the entire apartment.
	Okay, we're running out of time now.
	Yeah, excuse me?
	Okay.
	So anyway, we were having sex at one point and I was on top.
	And I don't think it was raining anymore.
	And all I know was at one point I looked down at his face, there's a light on his face,
	like hot white light on his face.
	And he's shaking and he's just looking crazy.
	And I looked to one side of me without really turning my head, I just turned my eyes and
	there was this white light, hot white blue light like electricity.
	Shining off my body about six inches.
	Oh my!
	Yeah, and I looked all the way around me.
	It was doing the same thing, but I couldn't.
	It didn't hurt.
	And so he was flipped out.
	He didn't say a word, but he couldn't really catch his breath.
	And then he just told me, I think we better stop.
	But all I know is I sat there for a minute.
	I thought about it, and I was like, it didn't hurt.
	I didn't feel anything.
	How old were you?
	I was 24. 23.
	Twenty-three.
	Yeah.
	But the other thing is, this person, I was the second person that he had ever had sex with, it turned out.
	Well, do you think it was him, or do you think it was you?
	I... I can't tell.
	Well, either can we.
	Brad, any comments, quickly?
	Well, again, this is not an uncommon phenomenon, believe it or not.
	The electric... I sing the body electric.
	we'll be right back ok
	ok you
	But you have lost your mind Whatever happened to our love?
	I wish I understood It used to be so nice, it used to be so good.
	So when you near me darling, can't you hear me?
	Can you hear me darling, can you hear me, it's so lit The love you gave me, nothing else can save me, it's so lit
	When you're gone, how can I even try to go on Wanna take a ride?
	Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	8255 East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033. First-time callers may
	reach out at area code 775-727-1222 or call the wildcard line at 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	There's never going to be another Ava.
	Good morning, everybody.
	Brad Steiger is here.
	Kind of the grandfather of the paranormal.
	And we're letting you tell stories this morning.
	And then just sort of commenting on them.
	Maybe material for yet another book.
	So many, so prolific.
	Ron Steiger now, 149 books.
	149 books, the latest of which is Shadow World.
	Available now on, of course, Amazon.com or even in your local bookstore already.
	Anyway, it's worth checking.
	Now, from the Kingdom of Nigh, more Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Here again, is Art.
	Back to the Shadow World we go.
	By the way, tomorrow night, let me promo this, because it is one of my favorite topics of all time.
	We're going to have Dr. David Anderson here, who's president of the Time Travel Research Center.
	You're going to find that very interesting.
	Brad, welcome back.
	Thank you.
	Time travel is one of my favorite topics, and I know yours as well.
	Do you think it'll ever be possible?
	I mean, actual, physical time travel, Brad?
	Yeah, I don't think we'll be able to interact, but I think it happens.
	There's so many stories that have been told to me by very serious, responsible people where I have no doubt that they have They've either seen a restored scene of the past, or they have entered what we think of as the past.
	But there's not an interaction.
	It's as if they're observing a movie, seeing something happen once again.
	But I think it happens in altered states of consciousness.
	And we've sent people back under hypnosis.
	Got some astonishing results that way as well.
	Oh, I know, I know, I know.
	But maybe one day, physical time travel.
	Well, I mean, the theoretical physicists, Brad, say enough power and you could do it.
	I just don't think there'll be an interaction.
	I think it'll be observing the past.
	Well, maybe we'll live to find out.
	I hope so.
	Well, to the Rockies, you're on the air with Brad Steiger and Art Bell.
	Good morning.
	Oh, hi.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Oh, Art, it's such an honor to talk to both you gentlemen.
	Thank you.
	Thank you so much for yourself and all you've done for all of us.
	Thank you.
	Anyway, my story, I've carried this with me, it's going to be 19 years this August, and I thought maybe Mr. Steiner could shed some light on it for me.
	This is Deb in Ocean Beach.
	Anyway, I moved into a beach house not far from where I live now, back in March of 81, and I lived there with my boyfriend and my daughter, and that summer, My daughter went back to visit her father, who was divorced, and my boyfriend went back to visit his family, so I was there alone for a whole month.
	During that month, I'll never forget this, it was the summer I turned 25, and I'd gone to bed early because I had a paper route I had to get up for at about 2 a.m., so I'd gone to bed, fully clothed, all in my water, but I remember falling asleep on my back.
	I was awakened.
	And I remember now, it must have been around 11 or 12 that night, I was awakened by the sound of heavy breathing in my left ear.
	And I remember my head was kind of turned to the right.
	And I was waking up, and as I'm wakening, and I was breathing, I felt this crushing sensation in my entire body, like this huge weight from my entire length of my body.
	I started to open my eyes and I only got them about halfway open when I saw, and I'm telling you this is not a dream, I was awake and I saw this and what I grasped at that moment as terror was beginning to rip through me, and it all happened so quickly.
	It was like, um, God, it was the body of a man with the head of a jackal.
	Oh, I've never been so terrified in my entire life.
	Those are the bad guys.
	Beg pardon?
	Those are the bad guys.
	Yeah, that's what I've learned since then.
	I had no knowledge whatsoever at the time, and all I can remember thinking just right in these fleeting seconds was, my God, whatever is happening here, this thing is trying to mate with me.
	And I remember closing my eyes, and I don't know why I didn't just faint dead away or have a heart attack right then and there, but I closed my eyes and the very moment I closed my eyes, I saw Blue skies with clouds on them, and I should mention, I lost my father when I was 13.
	We were getting very close, and he had a massive coronary two months after he turned 50.
	So I didn't have him, and I never had any kind of visitation or anything from my father.
	I just missed him and grieved very deeply.
	So, as I closed my eyes, and I saw the sky, and I saw his World War II helmet rolling in the sky on this cloud towards me.
	Very rapidly.
	And suddenly it stopped right in front of me, and taped inside of it, as he used to tell me when I was a little girl, he had a bookmarker with the 23rd Psalm on it.
	And I was never a really religious person, so I didn't memorize any of the Psalms or anything.
	And I was, like, reading it.
	It was right in front of me, and I was mouthing it.
	And when I got to, like, the third sentence, the part that I absolutely did not know, I I swear to you, I did not know, other than the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.
	I got to the part that I didn't know, and suddenly, with the greatest force, this thing just backed away from me.
	I mean, it flew out to the right-hand corner ceiling of my bedroom, and it just exited with such force that I was just, like, laying in my waterbed.
	I was just jolting, and I remember never moving, just feeling this, and then, as soon as this thing was, like, gone, a second, I curled in the fetal position, just terrified, completely terrified, and I had to call a friend.
	In about a couple of minutes I just sat up and I called a friend and told him what had just happened and he said, why don't you get over here right away and we'll just have some coffee and we'll talk.
	Your guide, your guardian angel, your guide, whatever you want to say, interacted.
	The helmet, of course, is spiritual warfare.
	And your father, source of strength, someone you loved, distracted your mind.
	Now, the 23rd Psalm is beautiful to say when this happens, but again, you could have started whistling, you could have started saying a rosary, you could have started reciting.
	Anything that broke your concentration or broke your focus on this negative entity would have worked, but the 23rd Psalm is wonderful.
	And the symbol of your father, I mean, all that came, and I would say that was your guide intervening.
	Not really her father.
	Not really her father, but the symbol, the emblem of her.
	And again, the World War II helmet.
	Put on the helmet of righteousness.
	Put on the armor of righteousness.
	Again, that was the symbol that banished that.
	In Shadow World, I have a number of exercises, prayers, how to cleanse your house for renewed strength and energy and so forth for people who find themselves in that kind of position.
	All right, well there's a good reason to buy the book.
	First time caller of the line, you're on the air with Brad Steiger and Art Bell.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, gentlemen.
	My name is Joe.
	I'm with KPQ in Washington.
	Yes, Joe.
	This has happened a number of times.
	I'd be asleep, and it was as if I rose up and looked down at my legs, and I just couldn't move them.
	It would take a number of times trying to move my legs.
	I actually jerked them.
	In order to get them free and then I was able to fall back asleep.
	That's one little short story and then there was another one tonight while I was listening to you describe the staircase and being lifted up by whatever.
	All of a sudden the lights went out in my house.
	They went out for like a couple of seconds and my computer started clicking and it really scared the hell out of me is the expression.
	Then just as quickly they came back on again.
	I don't know what that was all about.
	It's never happened before.
	I was really involved in listening to what you were saying.
	Well, I think we made a connection there.
	I learned in a negative way.
	That, I hope, even though it scared you a little bit, I think it was a positive result.
	We're talking, we're sharing, we've made connection.
	I think that's wonderful.
	I was working on a Poltergeist case that I thought was solved.
	It came back.
	And it followed the electrical, this was, you know, it was over 15, almost 2,000 miles away from me, but it came into my office through the telephone line and cracked my wall through books off the shelf and so forth.
	So, I mean, doesn't it make sense that the shadow world, the entities on the other side, would use the electrical medium, media, To communicate.
	Your computer, you said your computer clicked.
	I was curious how many words appeared because people have been getting messages on their computers.
	Well, this is actually on the copier.
	Did anything come out on the copier?
	Yeah.
	What came out?
	Nothing came out.
	I went over to look at it.
	Everything is shut down.
	And I went over to look at it.
	I put the lights on myself and then I went over to look at it.
	There's nothing there.
	Wow.
	Well, keep checking.
	I think, you know, we never know with whom we're connected.
	We never know with whom we have a rapport.
	You may be getting a message for you, you may be getting a message for me.
	Do you have any ideas on me sleeping and then rising up and looking down at my legs?
	Well, that's the beginning, usually, of out-of-body travel, out-of-body experience.
	If you want it to happen, just go with it.
	There must be an aspect of you that doesn't want it to happen, that has a fearful.
	Until you're ready, until it becomes natural, because it is so natural when it happens, don't force it.
	If you want to go with it, go with it.
	If you're not quite ready yet, then keep doing what you're doing.
	All right.
	Thank you very much.
	Thank you.
	Well, Cardline, you're on the air with Brad Seiger and Art Bell.
	Good morning.
	Well, good evening, gentlemen.
	Hi.
	This is Gerard in southwest Missouri.
	Yes, sir.
	Hi, Gerard.
	And I've got two very short stories for you.
	Okay.
	They're angels.
	And the first story is that there was a revival, I believe, yeah, it was in Africa.
	And these are from some friends of mine.
	They told me about it.
	They were there.
	And they were on this wooden stand and, you know, platform.
	Right.
	And, uh, they were, uh, having a revival with, uh, the people of the area.
	And all of a sudden, a gang of, let's call them thugs, because it sort of describes them, come and just set the platform on fire.
	Well, some of the, uh, preachers, they managed to hop off the platform.
	Others never did get off.
	But, uh, before the fire just died down and disappeared.
	It just went.
	And they were sort of blinking and looking around, and the missionaries didn't see anything.
	But all the people in the audience were wondering, where did all those firefighters come in the white uniforms?
	And they just disappeared.
	And that was it.
	And the other one was a couple missionaries, and they went to a tribe in Africa, and they were going to try to pave new ground.
	And they were put into a shed, or a shack, which was Pretty secure, they couldn't get out, and the tribe was meeting outside, and they were wondering what was going to happen to them.
	And then they were called out, and when they were called out, all of a sudden, the whole tribe just bowed down and moaned, and I mean, their knees were on the ground, their faces were in the dirt and the whole thing.
	And after a while, not that day, but in time, they got to know the tribe, and they were talking with them a lot.
	Whether they converted him or not, I don't know, but they were wondering why it was that that first day suddenly you bowed down to us.
	And you seemed so afraid, so we weren't afraid of you.
	It was those two big giants that were standing on both sides of you.
	Of course, they didn't see us.
	No, no.
	In my Guardian Angels and Spirit Guide book, I have some missionaries that shared some excellent stories.
	And by the way, Sherry and I have a column on angels and spirit guides on www.beliefnet.com.
	Really?
	It's a monthly column.
	This time it's on angels and people and places.
	Next time it will be on our angels, especially connected to mentally challenged children
	and so forth.
	So that's on www.beliefnet.com.
	All right.
	Great.
	Yeah.
	It's emphasized.
	It's got a lot of... Well, it's ecumenical.
	It covers all religious faiths.
	And that is devoted to spirituality.
	Good enough.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Brad Steiger and Art Bell.
	Top of the morning.
	Hi, Brad.
	Hi, Art.
	Glad to be able to hold you tonight, especially since our local affiliate WGVA in Geneva, New York, cuts out at 5 a.m.
	They have morning shows over there.
	Yes, unfortunately.
	It's pretty good, but it's not you guys.
	I just have one comment and then I'll get to my quick story, Art.
	The comment is, you haven't had a spiritual leader on in a while.
	I remember maybe about a year ago you had Chief Arbol Looking Horse on.
	Yes.
	If you have any slots still available and you feel like trying to work it up, I would suggest a fellow named Yogi Bajan, who is in Española, New Mexico.
	He's the leader of Kundalini Yoga and the Sikh Dharma of the whole Western Hemisphere.
	I think you'd have a lot of cool comments on a lot of this stuff.
	I'd be happy to do it.
	If anybody can help me with contact info, it would help.
	Fabulous.
	Their organization is 3HO, and they're on the internet.
	www.3ho.
	Anyway, that would be super.
	And I just think you and he together would be a wonderful pairing.
	Anyway, on to my story.
	About eight years, I'm a recovering addict, and about eight years ago, I was struggling with trying to get clean, and I just wasn't able to make it.
	I fell through all the cracks with any kind of social programs, and my insurance wasn't enough to cover things.
	I just resigned to being a happy doper for the rest of my life.
	Terrible resignation.
	Yeah, definitely.
	Fortunately, it's worked for me eventually.
	It's funny, it's fortuitous that you would have played SOS for Maba.
	Coming back into this segment because this is a save-me story.
	Where I grew up out here in the northern Finger Lakes in upstate New York, there's a lot of swampy areas that are very foreboding and it's hard to get in.
	Well, I was sitting maybe a hundred feet off the road out in this area.
	I don't know why I chose this area because from early childhood on I've always been terrified to drive through this one area.
	It's just one of those places where you don't want to look to either side of the road for a fear of what you might see.
	It's kind of a spooky area there, anyway.
	Yeah, oh, definitely.
	Well, I was just choosing to sit and thinking of getting high on a beautiful spring morning, and before I had really started my festivities, and I wasn't one to do hallucinogens or anything like that, and I hadn't really seen hallucinations or like that, as I was getting ready to get high, I just started sobbing, realizing it's a beautiful day, and yet I'm totally miserable.
	And in my tears and in my crying I just remembered saying, I can't do this alone.
	And all of a sudden my ears got plugged up like when you're getting over a cold or something.
	So I'm trying to pop my ears and hear better when I realize I can hear nothing but wind in the trees, but I can hear that perfectly clear.
	And then something happened.
	I don't know if it came in my ears or out of my ears or what, but I heard, Michael, I am here for you.
	I was so incredibly ecstatic that I got thoroughly trashed.
	Went home and slept that off and a little bit later on in the day I had kind of forgotten about it and I thought I would proceed to do what addicts do and change my mood again.
	Before I had the chance to do that, the sounds of the day, the people in the household, what
	not faded away and I heard the wind in the trees again clearly and I remembered and just
	kind of went.
	Trees swaying in the summer breeze, showing off their silver leaves as we walked by.
	The trees swaying in the summer breeze, showing off their silver leaves as we walked by.
	The trees swaying in the summer breeze, showing off their silver leaves as we walked by.
	Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033. First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222. The
	wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295. And to reach out on the toll free international
	line call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
	Good morning, everybody.
	Brad Steiger is here, and he's got a brand new book.
	It's called Shadow World.
	You'll find it on Amazon.com or in your favorite bookstore.
	It's all about all the things we've been talking about tonight.
	Now, I blew my way right through that break and you didn't get to hear the end of that story.
	It's coming up in a moment.
	Now, from the Kingdom of Nigh, more Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Here again is Art.
	Well, I was so engrossed in that story that I just blew right through a break, so I held the collar over the collar.
	Please finish your story for us once again.
	Sorry about that.
	Thank you, Art, certainly.
	And by the way, if I hadn't mentioned, my name is Mike, and I don't have a problem with anonymity or anything.
	All right, Mike.
	Mike, anywhere across the world is going to go, oh, I know him.
	But so the whole experience has turned out Quite positive, that voice that I heard.
	Like I say, I've tried to analyze it over the years.
	I consider myself, I'm an engineer in the same field, as a matter of fact, as yourself.
	Of course, you can imagine I want to pick it apart and find out how that experience was put together.
	Always.
	Fortunately, I haven't gotten it apart, so there's no parts left over.
	I haven't been able to do that.
	That experience opened an incredible door for me in my life.
	I was raised Roman Catholic, a very devout family, and even my elderly mother, who's in her, well, I won't say elderly, she's in her 70s, a young 70s, she's had to just concede that whatever experience that was in my life, be it God or what, has made positive changes in my life, and she no longer hounds me about going to church her way.
	But the thing that is really amazing to me is I'm still incredibly terrified when I go through that place.
	I mean, the energy there just does not feel positive.
	Some of my Native American friends, they're Seneca's and whatnot in the area here, the Iroquois, they speak of areas like that.
	They give you increased energy to run through the area.
	That's like a good thing to do.
	Places that are good to be are the places that tend to make us rest and relax.
	So, I'd be curious about comments about, you know, that whole interaction.
	I mean, I don't feel, you would think I would almost want to visit the place like a shrine.
	Sure.
	Yet, when I go through, I'm still terrified.
	Like, I don't want to see what's out there.
	And yet, my life has changed in a wonderful way.
	There you are.
	Brad?
	Well, we use the word awful, and we forget what it originally means.
	I mean, awe, we are filled with awe.
	And I think rather than fear, this is one of those awesome places.
	I'm familiar with that area.
	I'm an adopted Seneca, and there's a lot of power in that region, and I think, again, this epiphany that you had, the voice, you were in the silence, the voice spoke to you, and just Look at the practical aspects, as we said earlier.
	Sun Bear says, if your medicine doesn't grow corn, I don't want to hear about it.
	You had an epiphany that proved to be one of the most practical and beneficial aspects of your life.
	I don't think it's fear, I think it's the awesome power that you sense that's in that region.
	Precisely.
	And now, back to the best of Art Bell.
	All right.
	Well, to the Rockies, you're on the air with Brad Steiger, the one and only, and Art Bell.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Art.
	Yes.
	Hey, hi.
	This is Steve in Denver.
	Hi, Steve.
	You're going to have to yell.
	You're not too loud.
	Is that better?
	Better, yes.
	That's better.
	OK.
	Yeah, first of all, man, I just wanted to thank you, man.
	I'm a rock and roll musician, and we used to sit there on the bus on the road and listen to you late at night, buddy.
	That was pretty cool.
	Thank you.
	Yeah, I just wanted to share a quick story.
	This happened in Hollywood, California.
	And this was, I'd say about six years ago.
	It was not too long after the Northridge earthquake.
	And I remember I was renting a house at the time with two other drummers.
	And after the quake, a couple of us couldn't sleep in our bedrooms because they got damaged.
	Sure.
	So we're, it was like, you know, we're sleeping on two couches, you know, you know, passed out anyway, needless to say.
	I woke up, And I opened my eyes.
	What actually woke me up was my drummer on the other side of the room was talking in his sleep and babbling.
	That's what initially awakened me.
	At the same time, I saw what appeared to be... It was one of those almost strange times when you're not quite awake.
	Anyway, I saw what appeared to be... This totally flipped me out, but it looked like it was a woman floating in the room.
	It was like a greenish haze.
	And she was dressed in like 1800s garb.
	And she was floating in the room and she was staring at my drummer across the room.
	And then all of a sudden, I almost sat up, but I was just kind of like blinking, you know, laying there blinking.
	And then all of a sudden, she seemed to become aware of the fact that I was awake and seeing her.
	And she whirled around and looked at me and then promptly vanished.
	Yeah, and at that point, I sat up and said a couple of words I probably can't say on the radio.
	And at the same time, so did my drummer across the room.
	What was your feeling?
	Was this a positive or negative encounter?
	It was more kind of bewilderment.
	I was kind of like, whoa!
	Like the rocker dude.
	Whoa!
	Yeah, I was like Spicoli or something.
	I mean, but that was when he sat up and he started saying, well, what's going on?
	And I said, dude, you just have like a nightmare or something.
	And he started saying, yeah, why?
	And I said, well, you woke me up.
	And then I shared with him what I had seen.
	But it was like, I mean, it wasn't a dream, though.
	Because I was just waking up.
	Now, you said he was babbling in his sleep.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Did he make any association, or could you make an association with what he was saying with this apparition?
	Well, it appeared to me, You know what?
	Actually, it sounded like he was conversing.
	Right.
	But I couldn't really make out exactly what.
	I sat and listened to him for a couple minutes.
	I was just sitting there kind of cracking up.
	You know?
	And I was just like, hmm.
	Did he seem to be talking to someone?
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	It was like as if he was in a conversation.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	I think, you know, here again, he was sleeping.
	That's when so many people are vulnerable, or let's say, it's so easy for access to be made.
	With the entities from Shadow World, and I think that's what was happening.
	She was making communication.
	It would be, of course, in retrospect, if you could have established some kind of contact and found out what she wanted.
	Well, it was funny, Bill.
	I mean, this was all like in a mad... The window here was just a few seconds, I think.
	Boy, that's asking a lot, Brad, for people who are... Yeah, I know, I know, I know.
	...totally freaked out and not ready for it.
	I appreciate your call, sir.
	Yeah, it's an interesting story.
	Thank you.
	It really is hard.
	I mean, you know, in retrospect, boy, I wish I'd asked that question, or boy, I wish I'd had that snappy comeback.
	But, you know, something like that is freezing you in place.
	Right.
	But sometimes, you know, when we question, we do remember, you know, like, oh, he said such and such, and I was hoping that I might be able to prompt a little more information.
	That's the researcher, you know.
	Yeah, I hear you.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Brad Steiger, the researcher.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I'm sorry, I wasn't prepared.
	I was daydreaming.
	My name is Jamie.
	I'm in Northern California.
	Okay.
	And I have a question that may have been asked already and maybe I've missed it, but do children seem to be more sensitive to whatever is around?
	The reason why I ask is When my daughter was three, she started doing and talking and saying very peculiar things.
	For instance, she would sing Unforgettable, which was my grandmother's favorite song.
	She was three years old.
	There was no way she could have known the words.
	She was an interesting kid, but one day she was sitting on the couch, three years old, and she looked up to me.
	We were talking about just reading a book.
	We were just talking.
	Anyway, she looks up at me and she says, Mommy, when I was alive before I died, I was sitting under a tree and they strangled me.
	And I didn't know what to do.
	I didn't know what to say.
	It scared the dickens out of me.
	She doesn't remember it, of course.
	And sometimes I wonder where it came from.
	When I was alive before I died?
	Yeah.
	She was sitting under a tree and they strangled me.
	And that was all she said.
	And then she went back to her little three-year-old babble.
	Wow.
	How do I ask her without scaring her?
	Sure.
	Anyway, I guess my question is, do young children, are they sensitive?
	More sensitive than adults?
	Unquestionably, yes.
	Again, depending upon your own cosmology, someone would have said, oh, tell me more about the past life.
	Now, again, there's nothing wrong with that, depending upon your worldview and your cosmology.
	It's best not to, though.
	It's best that the child, if the memory comes... I mean, again, it's complicated enough living one life at a time.
	If it's necessary for the child to remember a past life or to complete a lesson unlearned, to complete some work left undone, then it will happen.
	But let it happen in a natural way, in terms of seeing angels, in terms of seeing entities, Yes, definitely.
	Children, before they learn they're not supposed to, they will see them.
	It happened to me when I went to school and I realized the other kids weren't seeing the other people in the room and I just learned to be quiet about it.
	Even now, she really is interested in ghosts and spirits.
	She's upset that she has never experienced anything.
	How old is she now?
	She's 12.
	She's 12 and she feels somehow left out that she hears all these stories.
	No, no, no.
	Let it come naturally.
	That's how I feel about it.
	It did scare me.
	I didn't know how to react.
	At the age of three, it was something totally uncalled for.
	I think you reacted in a proper way.
	I'm sure you were loving.
	And you didn't make her feel odd or peculiar?
	Oh, no.
	Just stunned.
	Not with the retort of the researcher, but sort of stunned.
	I understand that.
	Well, thank you very much.
	Thank you.
	I've heard a lot of stories like that, and they really are eerie, Brad.
	I don't know how you account for that.
	How does a three-year-old just suddenly come up with that out of nowhere?
	My book, Returning from the Light, I mean, I'm filled with accounts like that, where very often then the child progresses.
	I mean, I've heard from people where the child has gone to, they're in a strange town, and the child suddenly looks at someone and says, you know, you murdered me, and I remember, and the parents are totally stunned.
	They do some research, and the kid says, I'm so-and-so, and I was your partner.
	I mean, here again, they find the newspaper accounts, there was a person, that man that he just accused was one of the suspects and never brought to justice.
	What's going on here?
	I mean, and again, depending on the parent, how they react to that.
	Is it then momentary possession?
	Is it turning into the great cosmic consciousness?
	Or is it past life?
	Or is it all of the above?
	All right.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Brad Sager.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	How's it going?
	Fine, Robert.
	I love your show.
	Thank you.
	Where are you?
	I'm in San Antonio, Texas.
	Alright.
	What I was going to tell you is when I was about 18, I grew up in El Paso, Texas.
	I decided to work at a graveyard.
	Really?
	Yeah, just kind of like a summer job.
	Like weed eating and that kind of thing.
	A lot of weird things happened there on and off.
	Just little things here and there.
	Nothing I'm going to tell you.
	But I was talking to one of the guys that used to work there, and he was saying how he wanted to know if I wanted to go over to Juarez, Mexico, and go drink.
	And I said, yeah, sure, fine, fine.
	He goes, well, bring your girlfriend along.
	And I said, oh, I don't have a girlfriend.
	He goes, oh, you don't?
	And I said, no.
	And I said, no, but I'd like one or something.
	I said, can you hook me up?
	In Juarez?
	Are you kidding?
	Yeah, yeah, really.
	I know, in a joking kind of way.
	So we went over there.
	We were in this bar and I told him I was going to go to the bathroom.
	He's married and she was there.
	I went to the bathroom and I was coming back and I decided to put some music on, like a jukebox or something.
	I walked over to the jukebox and I put some stuff on.
	They're different things.
	A girl walks up to me and she says, do you come here a lot?
	I turned around and here's this slender blonde.
	I was like, wow, she's really hot kind of thing.
	I said, no, not really.
	This is my first time here.
	She said, what did you put on?
	I told her some of the groups I put on.
	She said, I like those groups.
	We started just talking there, you know, at the jukebox, and my friend, I look over at my friend, and he's, like, laughing at me, like, you know, there he goes.
	She didn't say anything like, come a little closer, you're so strong, the night is... Not at all, not at all.
	She just... You're my kind of man.
	Like, she knew me.
	Like, we had been, you know, we had known each other before.
	I had never seen her before.
	I thought she was a very attractive person.
	And you know, I started asking her, like, you know, where are you from?
	She's from El Paso.
	And I guess, where did you go to school?
	And she told me her high school and that kind of stuff.
	Anyways, my friend calls me over and he says, he said, so I walked over and I go, well, hold on.
	I need to go talk to my friend real fast.
	And so I walked over there and I said, Hey, what's going on?
	He goes, well, he goes, we're going to, we're getting a little tired.
	He's all, we're going to be going in a little while.
	You might want to ask her, maybe she wants to, you know, go out to like a, uh, You know, somewhere to eat, eat some food or coffee or something.
	We don't have a lot of time here.
	And so I walked back over and she's not there anymore.
	Obviously she's not there.
	And I looked around and I don't see her in the bar and there's some bathrooms.
	I go to the back and I go back there and I asked the girl that was coming out, I asked her if she'd seen a tall blonde or anything and she said, no, I haven't seen anybody.
	And then that was it.
	You know, I just didn't see her anymore and I walked back over there to my friends.
	I asked them, did you see where she went?
	And they go, no, you know, they were just, they weren't paying attention.
	And I said, well, I guess she ditched me.
	You know, I was thinking, well, maybe she ditched me.
	But then I, you know, I had worked at that graveyard for about six months and when I went, maybe about three weeks later, I thought I saw her walking across the graveyard.
	Right.
	And that was it.
	Thank you very much.
	I'm so sorry we're out of time.
	And we really are out of time.
	leaving because i just was freaking me out and end of that summer job
	yeah yeah exactly all right thank you very much i'm so sorry we're out of time
	and we really are out of time brad uh... as you know at the end of the month i'm retiring
	Yes, I know.
	And we have had many good years together.
	Yes.
	I sure do want to thank you for that and for appearing on the radio all these times with me.
	Well, I thank you for that.
	Sherry Spencer, love to you and Ramona.
	Thank you.
	We know it goes on and we wish you the best.
	Our thoughts and prayers are always with you.
	Thank you, Brad.
	The book is Shadow World.
	It's the new book, but not the last book, obviously.
	Oh, no.
	Man's working on another one right now.
	Oh, yeah.
	Do you ever take a break in between books, by the way?
	I'm happy in my work.
	Or are you writing two at a time sometimes?
	Usually three at a time.
	Are you really?
	Researching one, taking notes on the other, working on the third, and then it keeps progressing.
	I see.
	Well, then, be prolific.
	Continue to be.
	Brad, my friend, thank you so much, and we'll stay in touch.
	Stay well, brother.
	Good night.
	That's Brad Steiger, folks.
	And that's it for me this night.
	Tomorrow night, we're going to be talking about one of my favorite topics of all time.
	Time travel.
	Real, physical time travel.
	And we're going to do it with an expert, Dr. David Anderson, who's president of Time Travel Research Center.
	Really should be something.
	So, uh, that's tomorrow night.
	If you have the time.
	From the high desert, this night.

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