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March 22, 2000 - Art Bell
34:49
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Richard C. Hoagland - Ice Breakup, Animal Mutilations
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Time Text
It sure is.
This is a winner of the Engstrom Science Award, Science Medal, actually.
Jerry, there's a lot going on tonight, Richard.
It sure is. And the irony of irony, of course, is that last Thursday I was on your show,
and we talked about tonight, the 22nd, as the night or the day that the Mars Surveyor spacecraft
would fly directly over Cydonia and could get perhaps the best picture of any in the last 20-some years.
And of course, Mr. Malin, responding to Dan Golden's urgings because of all our faxes, took lots of pictures, right?
Oh, you're such an optimist, Arj.
No, actually there's been a kind of a black curtain around all this.
A black curtain?
A black curtain, yes.
There's a lot going on with NASA, and in the last couple of days, some very strange headlines have come out from UPI.
What is intriguing is the author of the headlines, because the author is none other than James Oberg, who I have personally clashed with over analysis, very different analyses.
of the same STS-48 video.
Listen, you and I are going to go for a long time on the Mars lander thing.
Just before we get into that, I would like comments from you on a couple of other stories
that I think are really important.
Like this biggest ever iceberg breaking off the Ross ice shelf, or about to.
That's big, Richard. 183 miles by 22 miles in width.
Yeah, apparently we're all monitoring this by satellite and seeing the fissures and the cracks, and it's only a matter of time.
Well, this indicates that there is a global warming in progress, and the only question is, you know, per two authors that I know who wrote a book on this, what's the cause of the warming?
I mean, I must say, folks, I've read Dart and Whitley's book, and I highly recommend it.
It's well written.
It's exciting.
It's also real.
It's grounded in some very interesting data.
Technically, the ice core analyses would show you can flip back and forth in these remarkable climatological extremes in a matter of incredibly brief periods of time, days or even less.
As a matter of fact, there was a story on that the other day, and people have been saying, no, no, no, no, these shifts do not occur that quickly.
Bullpucky, they sure do.
They do.
All right.
But you and Whitney have focused on the possibility that this is global warming mandated by too much carbon dioxide.
Being put in the atmosphere from the burning of fossil fuels.
Or a natural cycle.
Well, the natural cycle is what I'm voting on, and the hyperdimensional model predicts, as I said in the paper that I wrote a couple years ago, which is still there on the Enterprise website, that this, in fact, would be occurring.
And it's interesting because the hyperdimensional model can absolutely make the climate turn on a dime, with no apparent reason, and we have good previous historical data, of both warming and cooling, dramatic coolings, that take place in a chillingly brief period of time, to coin a phrase, and someday you and I ought to have to do a show where we bring all that stuff to the fore, get a couple of good meteorologists or climatologists on, and discuss the correlations that go back centuries, if not millennia, because this is going to affect everybody and everything, and of course what we're all worried about in terms of the Antarctic is that if you have
the Ross ice shelf break off and that means that more ice will come down from the interior.
That's right.
And that will in turn when it melts raise the global sea level.
And there are a lot of major cities sitting around on all the sea coast from New York to San Francisco
to the far east to London to Paris to you know where and they're all in danger of inundation.
Well I know you're not a climatologist Richard but for example baseball size hail was falling in Texas today.
No.
Yeah, that's the same storm that was improperly messed with the last couple of days.
Yeah, that's right.
Baseball-sized hail now.
I don't know a lot, but doesn't, wouldn't a piece of hail that big have attained terminal velocity in its fall?
It depends on the thrust, up-thrust of the convection currents in the thunderstorms.
The more violent the winds, meaning the more energy there is to be dissipated through convection, up and down, The longer you can hold up a piece of ice so it goes up and down and up and down and it grows like an onion.
It puts shell after shell after shell of ice until it gets too heavy.
And then like Wile E. Coyote.
It will fall.
But the baseball size.
I mean, remember a few months ago, maybe it was weeks ago, the reports from Spain and Italy of the huge chunks of ice falling from clear skies?
The reports continue, by the way.
And no one seems to know where they come from.
There was a science conference convened.
Well, you know, they were talking about aircraft, but they ruled that out.
In fact, they have come from the atmosphere.
And what the hell could make something out of a clear sky that big?
Gosh, wouldn't it be maybe something like super cooling of Humid layers in ways that have not happened for a long time.
Gee, Richard, it could be.
And isn't super cooling a core part of a certain book I recently finished?
In other words, what people need to understand, we are not living in a steady state scenario.
Just because this hasn't happened in historical memory doesn't mean it's not going to happen now or could happen in the future.
So we need to pay attention to all these anomalies.
Because obviously it's the anomalies that are telling you that something's wrong and you need to do something about it.
Now, if it's not fossil fuels, if it's hyperdimensional physics, other people will say, well, hell, we can't do a damn thing about it.
Wrong, pale face!
There's a lot we can do about it, but we have to get the knowledge of the physics out from the black programs and out into the public domain so that mainstream science and mainstream technology can grapple with the tools that are adequate to handling a planet that basically wants to hiccup and maybe get rid of us.
Hiccup and get rid of us.
You can really turn a phrase.
Well, to the planet is a hiccup.
To us, it's kind of a really, really bad hair day.
Oh, yeah, bad hair day.
All right, now this is way out of your field, Richard.
Are you sure?
Yeah, well, I am.
Up in Oregon, they are really having a lot of extremely bizarre cattle mutilations.
I've been receiving some information But there's a gag order in place, a gag order about what's going on up there.
This is pretty creepy.
This is pretty interesting.
I've been following the cattle mutilations for, oh, I guess, what, 20, maybe 25 years since the first ones were reported by the wire services back in the 70s.
Right.
And when I first met Linda, I mean, no one knows this.
She might not even remember this, but Linda Howe and I met.
Around the situation of cattle mutilations.
I went to visit her in Denver when she lived there.
And I spent about a week, you know, going over a whole range of things from the Sidoni research to the areas that she was highly intrigued with which involved the cattle mutilations.
And I actually wrote a white paper for Linda.
An analysis of what we knew of the cattle mutilations at that time.
And one of the things that I identified and laid out Long before I realized how important it was going to become to our work prescending from Cydonia, was the heavy symbolic component, the magical ritual symbolic component that was even evident then.
I mean, this is quite a while ago.
This is maybe 10, 15 years back.
Well, magical, mystical, what do you mean?
Well, I mean that if you, if you, if you, this is a long show.
This is not something we can do in five minutes, but if you, if you start looking at the whole phenomena of cattle mutilations and the things that are missing, like tongues and ears and hearts and rectums and... I thought, I thought, I thought in this case, um, I, I got, I have a heavy rumor, I think a very good one, that there is no blood in the hearts.
And the missing blood, which is...
Uh, pretty much consistent through a lot of these.
This pattern remaining consistent bespeaks, uh, I mean, the conventional wisdom in the UFO community is if somebody is doing this, probably, quote, aliens, to do radiation sampling.
That they're doing some kind of scientific test.
Environmental samples.
Exactly.
My theory is, and it's been consistent ever since I laid this white paper on Linda, is that no, this is heavily symbolic, it's heavily ritual, it's a message.
It has no practical use whatsoever, but it's meant to communicate fear and horror and loathing in the parts that are taken, and in the meta-message for the human condition, and that whoever's behind it Whether it's terrestrial or non-terrestrial, it's trying to send a message.
Now... Well, let's think now.
What would the message be?
Well, look at the parts that are taken.
There are... See, this gets into the... Sexual organs.
It gets into the theories of the origins of mankind.
Well, how?
Well, it gets into the theme, the end theme of Mission to Mars the other night.
Because if you go back to many traditions, you find that cows And cow goddesses, mother goddesses, particularly in the Egyptian tradition, in the Sumerian tradition, and even in the Indian tradition, figure prominently in the origin of the human species.
So, if you look at this from an anthropological or mythological perspective, you can say that whoever's behind this is trying to tell us, via the vehicle of the cow, which is the metonym for the human species, You know, the eyes are removed, the tongue is removed, the ears are removed, the sexual organs, all the major parts that make a human being function, to communicate, to be able to think, to speak, to reproduce, are taken away.
It's almost as if the message is, you are down on the farm, you're stuck on the farm, and you're going to stay on the farm forever.
In your way of thinking, Richard, could cause a judge to put a gag order on something like this?
Because somebody's wised up to what the message is, finally, after almost 20 years.
And this is the most interesting new wrinkle, because this has been going on, and, you know, FBI agents have been called in, and sheriffs have tried to get investigations, and medical people, and Linda has been all over this, you know, written a couple of books on it.
I know, years and years.
But no one has officially done something like this, which indicates to me, in this year of disclosure, Remember, we passed this fabled year 2000, that something has changed.
There's a qualitative change, and somebody at high level knows something that they're so worried about, so fearful of, they got a local judge to slap a gag order so no one can find out anything.
And that's new news, and that means we should pay really close attention.
Well, you're not a lawyer, I'm not a lawyer, but what is generally required?
For a judge to issue a gag order.
In other words, under what conditions does a judge do that?
Well, in this... There's got to be a justification for it, doesn't there?
I would imagine public safety.
You know, general public welfare, which means it's a big story.
It's a big thing they're trying to cover up.
So I hope Linda is there, and I hope she's safe, and I hope we can track her down, and you have her on tomorrow night.
No, I don't.
The minute that... Listen, I'm telling you what happened.
I sent her this story.
I got it very early.
About Oregon.
And she called me back and she said, Art, there's a gag order.
I talked to the gentleman up there named Lewis, who is investigating all of this.
And he said he can't talk about it.
And then all of a sudden, I can't.
Yeah, that's right.
And I can't I can't get a hold of I can't get a hold of him.
Uh, Kimball Lewis.
Kimball Lewis.
Kimball Lewis, and I can't get a hold of him.
And that was the last message I got from Linda.
She hasn't been available by phone.
I think she's taken off to Oregon.
I really do.
Well, we know she's a curious person, and if I were her, I would probably do the same thing.
I just hope she took her cell phone with her.
I'm only guessing, of course.
And I hope she calls you and reports in.
Well, see, what's interesting to me, Art, is that we've been pursuing, you know, Linda's been pursuing her research and we've been pursuing ours for, you know, decades now, since I've, you know, had that first very intense discussion with her on this problem.
What fascinates me is the parallel convergence.
We have found incredible intense symbolism in these alignments and all the stellar stuff
that we talk about in the secret societies and all that.
Yeah, but I don't see the symbolism here.
Because we haven't had time to develop the model.
You can't do it in five minutes.
Or if there is symbolism, I can't even imagine, I can't imagine what it would be now.
I've interviewed so many people who say, no, no, no.
Human beings did not do this.
You know, this was no ritualistic saint-worshipping group or something.
Yeah, but who says it has to be human beings who are into ritual?
Nobody says that, but... All I'm saying is the fingerprints appear to me not to be practical, but to be heavily symbolic, and whoever the perpetrators are, they're trying to send a message And it's a consistent message for over 20 years.
Yeah, but everything is sort of symbolic to you.
No, of course not.
That's not a real statement.
Of course it is.
All right?
Well... But the research we've been pursuing is.
And some night we're going to come to terms and we're going to deal with this and we will lay out the evidence and people can make up their own minds.
Well, who's to say this is not environmental monitoring?
I'm not saying it cannot be.
I'm saying that there are two models on the table.
The environmental monitoring and then this.
And the fact is that if you're going to do environmental monitoring, why would you leave the carcasses in all strange places up to and including right outside the fence at NORAD in one case?
I know.
I don't have the answer to that.
Hold on, Richard.
We'll be right back.
From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM.
A lot of news popping out there.
and ice crackin'.
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I'm Art Bell.
Before the break and before returning to Richard, I've got a little bit of news for you on what's going on up in Oregon.
I'm with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
Well, good evening and or good morning, wherever you may be.
I'm Art Bell.
Before the break and before returning to Richard, I've got a little bit of news for you on what's going on up
in Oregon.
And it really is kind of weird stuff.
I've got Stephanie on the phone.
Stephanie, I don't have your last name.
Oh, yes, I do.
Stephanie Nutt, is that correct?
Steph?
Yes.
Okay, there you are.
Hi.
Your last name is Nutt?
Yes, it is.
Okay.
And you work with NBC, where?
In Bend, Oregon.
It's slightly west of... Actually, it's probably about an hour at least west of where the calves' bodies were discovered.
Uh-huh.
The first C.A.V.S.
bodies that were discovered, I was told... Do you have a radio on there, hon?
They are struggling to turn one on in the newsroom, if we can speak.
Okay, no, they shouldn't do that.
We have a delay system.
It'll be very confusing for you, so just stop them.
Okay, they're leaving the room now.
I've waved them away.
Alright, good.
We're fans of you here in the newsroom.
Oh, you are?
What station again?
Our call letters are KTVZ.
KTVZ.
And we're an NBC affiliate here in Bend, Oregon.
Alright.
A lot of us on the late shift listen to you as we drive home.
All right.
I spoke with Linda Moulton Howe, who talked to state humane agent Kimball Lewis.
Yes.
And she said, he said, there was a gag order.
Now, you're not aware of that?
I am not aware of a gag order, no.
And I did speak with Kimball today, interviewing him for our newscast, about the discovery today of a second group of calf bodies.
Well, tell us about the first group.
Well, the first group, according to Kimball, he's the primary source of our information, were 11 calves, various breeds of calves, found without their skins, and they had been dumped in a remote location.
Without their skins?
Correct.
They had been skinned.
From what we have been told, they were determined to have been killed before they were skinned, and there were some other sinister God, that is weird.
And Kimball, when you spoke with him, didn't seem too nonplussed about all of this?
Well, he has seen... I've known Kimball for several years, and he has seen more than one case of gruesome animal mutilation.
Some that have been connected with, say, panic rituals.
And this one, from my knowledge of Kimball, was the thing that he didn't have with any answers.
Is that what prompted him to say he put it in the X-Files category?
Yes, I believe so, because usually it's a fairly short road from finding the mutilated animal and finding an angry or abusive person that did something to the animal.
Okay, but that's a lot of calves skinned, and then the other rumor that I heard was there was no blood in their hearts.
That was a rumor that we had heard also, and again, Art not having seen the carcasses personally, I can't say.
Okay, but the late news is that today they have found more?
Correct.
Eighteen.
Eighteen?
Eighteen calves.
They are not mutilated, reportedly.
They were dumped in the same general vicinity of Central Oregon.
And what was odd to me about this, Art, is that these were Holstein calves, which are a dairy breed of calf.
And this is primarily a beef cattle ranching area.
There weren't any dairy farms really nearby that it would seem logical that calves that had died during calving season would have ended up in this mass grave, so to speak.
And the other unusual thing was that there was a pig with these latest calves.
What?
There was a pig.
A pig?
Yes, sir.
And what the significance of the pig was, no one seems to know.
Well, that's why a lot of us think there might be a gag order, because no one seems to know the facts here.
It's really Other than, you know, as you are presenting them to me now, for which I am very grateful, the details seem lacking.
They do, and I don't think it's because, my personal feeling is, I don't think it's because of reluctance to give information to us.
I think it's because of a lack of any conclusions that can logically be drawn.
They don't know what to say.
Exactly.
And I know that Kimball has been Experiencing many phone calls from people who believe there is a an alien or a supernatural link to these these killings which he's not he's not ready to believe in the slightest.
Well, maybe but when you start wielding around X-Files comments it gets attention.
Yes, it does.
All right, listen, bless your heart for coming on the air no notice with me and if I can stay in touch with you on this I sure would like to do I do so.
All right.
Thank you so very much, and good night.
Thank you, Art.
Good night.
All right.
There you go, from the NBC affiliate up in Bend, Oregon.
Oh, my.
Hmm.
And oh, by the way, we just had a monstrous X-Class flare, and it may be affecting some satellites.
So there's more news breaking than we can handle all at once here.
Are you on the internet?
All right, Richard, thank you for being patient.
I wanted to get that on here.
Oh, that was fascinating.
Really?
Weird stuff, Richard.
We're eating Alstine calves in the middle of cattle country where there are Herefords and Black Angus and not a dairy cow in sight.
Right.
And a pig.
And a pig.
Now, remember when Linda was reporting on mutilations a while ago that she uncovers some remarkable reports of cats Yes.
Richard, I don't want to go there.
Okay.
I really don't.
Just in case it's human-based, which I think it probably is, I don't want to put anything in anybody's mind out there.
That's a good idea.
Listen, we had an X-class flare, a major flare.
If you've looked at the Sure, it's going right off the chart.
Well, we're supposed to be nearing the peak of Cycle 23, the Sunspot Cycle, and it's looking more and more interesting.
In fact, it may outdo the Cycle 19, which was the one at 57, which was the big one.
God, I love that one.
Well, as a ham operator, that's the one you love.
Well, the thing that's really interesting is that during these major solar events, what people don't realize is there are sudden twitches and slowdowns and speed-ups of the Earth that precede the flare's art.
Really?
Yeah, and this is why we need a long hyper-dimensional discussion.
Again, going back to motion.
Yeah, because it's rotation, exactly.
Alright, listen.
But here's the problem.
How do you get, you know, effect preceding cause?
You follow me?
In other words, if you're assuming... Yes, I do.
...that it's all just in 3D, and you have a big flare, then you have effects from the solar system, that's fine.
But in this case, you have effects before you have the ostensible cause.
I also liked the solar winds stopping.
Oh, that was wonderful.
Yeah, that was some great story, too.
And harkens back several hundred years... Weird stuff going on.
...between 1650 and 17...
Something or other, when for about 70 years, the solar wind and the corona appeared to disappear.
Now, this was, of course, before we had measurements of spacecraft.
Right.
But you could infer the presence or non-presence by looking at the eclipses, total eclipses, and the corona went away.
So, I'm thinking that maybe we're in a precursor stage to the events leading up to the Little Ice Age in the late 1600s, mid-1600s, in which case your book is going to become a very big runaway bestseller For those people who can read without flashbacks.
All right, well, gee, that's only about the fourth plug.
It's called The Coming Global Superstorm.
And you can get it on Amazon.com at a good rate.
The Coming Global Superstorm.
Mark Bell, Whitley Street Reader.
Thank you, Richard.
Now, on to something else.
UPI, a NASA spokesperson, has vigorously denied a United Press International story that NASA knew that the Mars Polar Orbiter was doomed prior to its December crash into Mars.
As a matter of fact, the Director of Public Affairs at NASA said, quote, we think the story is wacko in every particular, well, they are very particular indeed in saying that NASA knew, well, let's see, the disappearance of NASA's Morris Polar Lander last December was no surprise to space officials UPI has learned.
Prior to its arrival at Mars, a review board, they say, had already identified a fatal design flaw with the braking thrusters that doomed the mission, and that NASA withheld this conclusion from the public.
Yeah, this is a major accusation against the agency, and what's bizarre, as I said to you off the air when we were talking about this, is it's coming Not from UPI.
I mean, UPI is the other big, you know, wire service compared to AP, Associated Press.
United Press International is what the UPI initials stand for.
But the guy who actually wrote this is Jim Oberg.
Who, as I said earlier, we've locked horns with.
Jim Oberg was a former employee of NASA.
In fact, he may still be an employee of NASA, based out of Houston, out of the Johnson Space Center.
He is a propulsion engineer, and I think he actually works for a subcontractor, not directly for the agency, to clear that up.
But the point is, he is very close to the Houston folks, and for him to do this story, basically nailing JPL... Well, let me tell you something now.
Well, yeah, by James Olberg, space writer for UPI.
Yep.
And I listened to his commentary on a BBC broadcast this afternoon, that unfortunately, because of copyright, we can't run.
And what's really remarkable is this is one NASA center attacking another NASA center through the guise of Jim Oberg.
And it's the Houston center, Johnson, that wants to go to Mars quickly with men and women, a la Mission to Mars, against JPL, that doesn't want to go anywhere near Mars, because it claims it will lose all its unmanned robots and its funding, that's at least what the story is out in front.
And the accusations are flying back and forth, and Golden, Dan Golden, the head of NASA, Was in front of a Senate committee, a subcommittee this afternoon, headed by the chairman, Senator Bill Frist, from Tennessee.
And what you need to know, and everybody in the country needs to know who's listening to us, is that the Art Bell audience has struck again.
Because who do you think one of the prominent members of the subcommittee was asking Dan Golden key critical questions for one of the very first times I can remember?
Who?
Senator John McCain.
Oh, nice of you.
Now, John McCain, I have some quotes from him right here.
John McCain has just gotten back from Bora Bora.
He just lost his primary bid for president.
He's got this huge national constituency.
George W. is courting him madly.
He's throwing accusations at Al Gore.
And suddenly, in the midst of coming back and being courted and all the big Republican stuff, you know, is he going to endorse?
Is he not going to endorse?
He takes time out today, Art, to sit in on the hearings on NASA.
Called by a Republican from Tennessee, and said the following things which are really critical because folks, out there in radio land, you are having an effect.
Listen to this.
Senator John McCain said that in reports examining the 1999 problems of NASA, quote, the extent of mismanagement is very startling.
Over the past year, I have continually been amazed by the reports coming out of NASA about mission failures, And program delays.
And I tell you, boys and girls, that without your faxes and emails and letters and phone calls to NASA and to McCain's office, I don't think the Senator would have been there, and I don't think he would have expressed an interest in this going back... I still would like to have the Senator on the air, actually.
I would like to interview him, Richard.
It would be extraordinarily interesting, because I think we need to keep the pressure up.
I think we need to continue to express, on behalf of this audience, interest in getting to the bottom of all the weirdness at NASA, And keeping McCain in the forefront is someone who can leave the charge because it's working.
His presence at that committee today is proof he is listening.
And this is really odd.
I mean, these two dueling stories about NASA, both apparently from NASA, it really is weird.
One's got to say it's really weird, all right?
Well, if it's part of this war, which I discussed last week, The war with an out-of-control JPL that is doing anything it damn well wants and no one seems to be able to hold it accountable.
Right.
And if another NASA center, the guys that want to go to Mars, all on mission to Mars, saw this as their opportunity with the Young Report, because there is a report on the failure of Mars Polar Lander to come out next week, next Tuesday, which is authored and directed by Tom Young.
Now, Tom Young, I actually know.
I met him back during the good old Viking era.
He was one of the top deputies under Jim Martin of the old Viking program.
And then I think he went to Martin Marietta or Lockheed Martin.
Anyway, he has now been, he was appointed by Golden to conduct like a Rogers Commission review of the Challenger.
Right.
That this was the Young report of the failure of Mars Polar Lander.
And apparently it is scathing.
And it is from some of the sources that gave information to Young That Oberg and UPI apparently built their story.
Now, one of the really weird parts of this... Let me spike it once more here.
Okay.
There's also a number of stories running around the net right now suggesting that NASA is saying they're going to pull back from Mars.
This came out at last week's Lunar and Planetary Science Conference, which is held every year in Houston.
Right.
And the guy who actually authorized the first pictures of Cydonia from Surveyor, Dr. Carl Pilker, was at this conference last week and he said that they were going to reassess totally their Mars program and the missions due to leave next year would not leave and they would have to reassess engineering and all that.
Well, this is all beginning to sound a little schizoid.
We're going to send men?
We're pulling back?
Remember, Golden also said on CNN in the last week that he was upping the timetable.
Schizoid here.
Unless they're going to junk the faster, cheaper model And go for the more expensive manned model.
Well, one of the things that came out of Pilker's comments... Remember, Pilker's in charge of unmanned spacecraft and science.
He's Deputy Administrator for Space Science.
Right.
He basically said that the plan they had through the years, the 2000 decade, to sometime between
2003 and 2008, send unmanned robots, you know, probes down to the surface and pick up rocks
and then fire them home and analyze them here in laboratories looking for life.
He said that was being scrapped or put on hold.
Now think about this.
If you've got evidence that there are cities and civilizations and technology and libraries,
who the hell needs rocks?
If that's what's going to be unveiled at some point and there is a war between the two centers.
Houston and JPL for who was going to command the ship, who was going to basically steer the money.
You know, Richard, something that big, it would leech.
Well, maybe it is leeching and we just don't recognize the leech yet.
Well, I mean, it would leech big time.
Somebody finally would stumble in front of a camera and say, look, I'm a NASA employee.
Here's what I know.
The world has a right to know this.
I hate to say it, but I don't agree, and I'll tell you why.
Why?
We've known about Cydonia for 25 years.
Well, yes, as a debate.
Yeah, but as a debate only because NASA's not played fair.
If you look at the McDaniel Report, look at all the lying and cheating and stealing that NASA has done under various guises to Congress and to members of the media, And changing the subject, and claiming there were photographs that existed that disconfirmed it, and the stuff that Sagan did in Parade Magazine.
Yeah, a lot of suspicious stuff, right?
A lot of nonsense has been purveyed over Cydonia, and that nonsense is like a miasmic fog.
It's like the fog of war, and the way you keep the truth from people is you put up so much junk that you can't see through the crap, and you can't find out what the truth is from all the nonsense.
In the middle of all this, you've got a few hard data points.
You've got an administrator who's now beleaguered, who is under fire from a lot of people, including Senator McCain.
You have an agency which is in disarray within.
You have NASA centers shooting at each other.
You have this Oberg story basically claiming that NASA lied to the American people.
I mean, imagine the depth of this.
Because what Oberg is really claiming is not only did they know it was going to fail before it got there, but then after it landed they went through the charade of pretending to try to find it, up to and including You know, having a surveyor look for the parachute and all that?
But NASA's saying there is not one shred of proof in that story.
It's what NASA's responding with.
Well, but the story ostensibly comes from the sources that are fed into the Young Report, and we're going to find out what the bottom line is next Tuesday.
Now, the head of JPL, Dr. Ed Stone, who I also know, cautioned on the 9th of March That the coming days were going to be very, very rough to his own employees at JPL.
Why, if there's no complicity in these tests, would it be very, very rough?
If you make dumb mistakes from engineering and you own up to them, nobody holds your feet to the fire.
They just say, okay, you made a mistake and you go on.
But if you lie about it, that's when you get caught.
If there's a cover-up and UPI and Oberg were claiming several days ago There was and is a cover-up, and Golden has responded vigorously that there is not, and we'll just have to see where all the chips fall.
And that's what we'll do.
We're out of time, Richard.
Thank you so very much, as always, for kind of moving through all this news with me.
If necessary, we're here tomorrow night.
Have a good night, Richard.
You too, Art.
Richard C. Hoagland.
I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
Boy, it's hoppin' tonight, folks.
♪♪ I love these parade homes, Mom.
Thanks for bringing me.
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